# Throttlestop on TigerLake-U i7 1165G7



## Christian Reuter (Dec 2, 2020)

Hi everyone,

I switched from my EliteBook x360 1030 G3 with Intel i5 8350u (Undervoltable) to my new Dell Inspiron 13 7306 with i7 1165G7. And to make a long story short this isn't worth it right now. I can undervolt my 8350u which makes it possible to run it smooth at 27w and temps staying in the 80is. Now with my new one I can only run at 20w to get it in the same temperature area. Elitebook and Inspiron aren't in the same category or priceclass but thats not the point right now. 

I tried cinebench and some other tools and my new TikerLake CPU is at the same scores than my old i5 CPU (For example 700 Point on Cinebench R15 Multi, middled in 10 runs). This is very good for my old i5 which is nearly 3 years old but very poor for my new i7. And its also far away from the results from intel benchmarks.

To this point I already activated Ultra Performance in Bios, got the advanced energy profiles back for windows (which was a real pain) and used throttlestop to improve powerlimits and heat control. So I think I maxed out my possibilities to this point. 

Do you have options for me which I didnt see? 

This should not be about being able to undervolt or something but why are there no Voltages listed in FIVR on Throttlestop? And why the heck is undervolting still locked for icelake and tigerlake? I thought the plundervolt exploit doesn't affect this generation anymore? 

Stay healthy and positive everyone.


----------



## nguyen (Dec 2, 2020)

Probably need to wait for new version of ThrottleStop to add support for Intel 11th gen CPU, doesn't look like it's supported yet.


----------



## unclewebb (Dec 2, 2020)

@Christian Reuter - The sad news is that for the 11th Gen U series, Intel has either blocked access to the FIVR controls or the FIVR that they have been using since the 4th Gen Haswell no longer exists in this design. Personally, I think Intel simply blocked access but I am always looking for a conspiracy to uncover.

This means that ThrottleStop can neither read or write any of the FIVR voltages like it used to do on previous generation Intel CPUs. That is why the voltage table in the ThrottleStop FIVR window is mostly blank.

It is possible that the 11th Gen H series will restore this feature or it might be reserved for the K series. Intel does not like to give anything away. Maybe you will need to hand over some extra money to get the voltage control feature enabled in their upcoming CPUs.

The 11th Gen U has great potential in theory but without voltage control, it is no better than Intel's previous CPUs. Thanks for confirming that.

Edit - Here is an example of why Intel likely decided to lock down their 11th Gen U series. The 10th Gen were beasts that could easily compete and beat their more expensive H series CPUs.



http://imgur.com/NQHgK5G


----------



## Christian Reuter (Dec 3, 2020)

@unclewebb Thanks for this information.   Still sad to hear. I guess what intel might want to say is that we should just forget about it.

@INTEL NO! THESE ARE OUR SYSTEMS AND WE ALREADY PAID FOR THEM! 

At the moment I really get in touch with this CPU but i'm still trying to understand it. The cinebench benchmarks aren't that big deal but I got the conclusion that I'm comparing not fair.

My i5 8350u is undervolted, I know the system very well and it's old so I would say i got the maximum out of this system.

On the other hand the i7 1165G7 is just released. So maybe there will be some updates or good guys who will find a way to give us back control over our own devices. I understand the idea behind taking the knife from the playing child and I also see that many persons would brick their devices but right now no one can get the knife which is plain stupid by intel.  

Especially when you see the scores of Apples M1 and actual Ryzen CPUs 

I'm using the Razer Core X with a Radeon Vega 56 as an external GPU and at the moment I don't get why I have so good scores with the 1165G7.
For example with 3D Mark Firestrike
i5 8350u 13052 Points
i7 1165G7 15100 Points.

This boost is huge and I also see this in ingame testing which I tried today. For example GTA Online, Shadow of the Tomb Raider or Kingdom Come Deliverance I have at least 10 FPS more.

At the moment i'm guessing either on the RAM. I have DDR4 3200 on the i5 and LPDDR4X 4256 on the i7 or on the Thunderbolt 4 Port, which has the same bandwith with 40Gb/s as the Thunderbolt 3 Port on the Elitebook but is now integrated on the chip so there could be a improvement in latency.

Right now I would say Thunderbolt 4 is the keymaker for this system for me. Still don't see any benefit in upgrading the GPU because only a few games are getting 99% GPU-Usage so the CPU and Thunderbolt remain the bottlenecks for gaming.
But hey... 15100 Points on Firestrike? Not bad for this setup.


----------



## CompuNerd2K (Dec 7, 2020)

@unclewebb is right about this... definitely not a conspiracy theory. Intel basically manufactures a bunch of chips, and the ones that come out the best have all their cores and features enabled and are sold as the higher end ones, while the worse binned ones that are not stable with everything enabled are sold as lower tier chips which. This basically means that even the U series chips have the same tech in them as the better stuff. Hence they don't want you milking a cheaper component. I can get in the 30-40W range depending on temperature and how warm the area around my charging port is (where the coil whine also comes from) on my i7-8565U based Dell laptop since I took the performance killing BIOS-updates as an excuse to play with ThrottleStop on a super expensive ($1500) laptop and I upgraded from the 432-point range  to 750+ (100+ higher than out-of-the-box stock) on Cinebench R15.  Now unless I'm pushing my machine hard and it throttles, I'm racing ahead (both idle and during use) at the maximum all-core turbo of 4090MHz and this thing feels snappier than brand new. I can only imagine when they find a way to prevent users from messing with the power limits, and in that case we are left at the mercy of the laptop manufacturers and will have to tolerate planned-obsolescence via BIOS updates. I literally caught Dell decreasing PL1 from 26W to 15W with updates! RED HANDED! They even messed up the fan algorithm, which I fixed by forcing the fans to max all the time so it can cool itself decently, but I can't get the fan speeds I had on stock settings before the bad updates...  Sorry Dell, not only did you mess with the wrong geek who can fix your planned obsolescence but you also just lost a potential future customer.

Oh, and if my setup sounds like a heat problem, I did improve the cooling by putting furniture feet on the bottom of my laptop.  Dell's genius engineers made this laptop in a way it suffocates itself on your desk.


----------



## Christian Reuter (Dec 14, 2020)

@CompuNerd2K That sounds great. Which device do you have? The Elitebook x360 and the Inspiron 7306 are both ultra slim devices and both limited to thermal throttling. On my Elitebook there is a limit around 27W and the Inspiron is power limited around 18,5-20W, which I couldnt get over with throttlestop (could still try and mess around with bios or intel dynamic tuning but dont want to). Still the Inspiron already runs hotter with 20W (fan control is on maximum using hwinfo). 

I'm sending the Inspiron back to Dell right now. Integrated Thunderbolt 4 is a big step for egpu usage but the cpu overall performance isn''t what I was hoping for.  I guess I'll have to wait for Intel TigerLake H or Comet Lake S or maybe Ryzen with USB4/Thunderbolt 3 Support. 

Don't get me wrong. I totaly get the physical limit with this thin devices so maybe I will look after a larger device in the future.


----------



## v12dock (Dec 15, 2020)

I picked up the envy x360 which runs great until it starts throttling which at point the fan starts screaming and i'm also having issues with Xe. I'm thinking about returning and getting something else.


----------



## CompuNerd2K (Dec 22, 2020)

Christian Reuter said:


> @CompuNerd2K That sounds great. Which device do you have? The Elitebook x360 and the Inspiron 7306 are both ultra slim devices and both limited to thermal throttling. On my Elitebook there is a limit around 27W and the Inspiron is power limited around 18,5-20W, which I couldnt get over with throttlestop (could still try and mess around with bios or intel dynamic tuning but dont want to). Still the Inspiron already runs hotter with 20W (fan control is on maximum using hwinfo).
> 
> I'm sending the Inspiron back to Dell right now. Integrated Thunderbolt 4 is a big step for egpu usage but the cpu overall performance isn''t what I was hoping for.  I guess I'll have to wait for Intel TigerLake H or Comet Lake S or maybe Ryzen with USB4/Thunderbolt 3 Support.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I totaly get the physical limit with this thin devices so maybe I will look after a larger device in the future.



I have an Inspiron 15 7590 2in1. Was annoyed that Dell messed up the performance on a freaking $1500 laptop. Had to get rid of the undervolting last we but it still performs quite decent. Thing got unstable as all hell with undervolting and I couldn't fix it. I'm still usually hitting 36W max in the best moments now which is still great, but I can sustain only a few hundred MHz less than undervolted. Sadly I might be looking at a hardware failure coming in the near future as I am experiencing once in a while some random hard crashes (screen blacks out, sound buzzes for a second and reboot, or freeze+buzzing) for no reason (I removed the undervolting, what more does this CPU or motherboard or whatever is messing with me want???) w/o BSOD. I'm still impressed I can get decent performance without undervolting as my first attempt at that worked way worse but maybe something else I played with in the mean time made it work better this time. O, and on a side note, the extreme CPU throttling down to 400-1500MHz in games can be easily fixed setting the GPU to run within Nvidia specs instead of Dell's attempted overclock that they pushed through an update (cursed EDP limits).



v12dock said:


> I picked up the envy x360 which runs great until it starts throttling which at point the fan starts screaming and i'm also having issues with Xe. I'm thinking about returning and getting something else.



Looks like cooling is insufficient and power limit tweaking won't help there. At least your fan algorithm is better than Dell's which doesn't kick the fan on until the CPU has been at 100C for an extended period of time and has already begun terribly throttling (nothing a little fan control software can't fix but still...)


----------



## docarter (Jan 24, 2021)

Hey Christian, do you still own the Inspiron?


----------



## Yukikaze (Jan 24, 2021)

Has anyone found a way to increase TDP limits on a TGL U? For example the i7-1165G7? My system (a Lenovo ThinkBook 14s Yoga ITL) settles down to its 25W TDP and then runs at around 70c. I have thermal headroom and I want to use it, but I am unable to make it stick to higher clocks for long due to power limits. No need to undervolt in this case, even, just having more TDP to play with would be quite good for me here.


----------



## docarter (Jan 24, 2021)

Yukikaze said:


> Has anyone found a way to increase TDP limits on a TGL U? For example the i7-1165G7? My system (a Lenovo ThinkBook 14s Yoga ITL) settles down to its 25W TDP and then runs at around 70c. I have thermal headroom and I want to use it, but I am unable to make it stick to higher clocks for long due to power limits. No need to undervolt in this case, even, just having more TDP to play with would be quite good for me here.


I have the Inspiron 14 7000 with the 1165g7 and also have issues with power limits. 

Does Throttlestop not allow you to increase them on your YogaBook?


----------



## Yukikaze (Jan 24, 2021)

Nothing I change seems to stick. Either I am doing something wrong in Throttlestop (I am new to it), or this is locked down hard.


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 24, 2021)

Some Dell and Lenovo laptops use the EC to force the power limits to a fixed value. ThrottleStop cannot solve that. Try the latest version and check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box. Post some screenshots or a log file so I can see what is going on. Do you get power limit throttling in Cinebench R20?


----------



## docarter (Jan 25, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Some Dell and Lenovo laptops use the EC to force the power limits to a fixed value. ThrottleStop cannot solve that. Try the latest version and check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box. Post some screenshots or a log file so I can see what is going on.Do you get power limit throttling in Cinebench R20?


We discussed this on Reddit previously. I believe it is the EC issue. I have spoken with someone at Dell corporate and they are investigating.

Here's the log:


```
DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP    VID   POWER
2021-01-24  19:15:20  18.83   12.3  100.0       0   41   1.0974    4.4
2021-01-24  19:15:21  16.65    2.6  100.0       0   42   0.6924    1.7
2021-01-24  19:15:22  19.02    5.6  100.0       0   42   0.6849    3.2
2021-01-24  19:15:23  15.54    4.9  100.0       0   42   0.6699    2.1
2021-01-24  19:15:24  14.87    2.1  100.0       0   41   0.6875    1.2
2021-01-24  19:15:25  14.59    2.7  100.0       0   41   0.6849    1.3
2021-01-24  19:15:26  14.66    5.2  100.0       0   41   0.6825    2.3
2021-01-24  19:15:27  14.74    3.7  100.0       0   41   0.6699    1.8
2021-01-24  19:15:28  14.21    4.2  100.0       0   40   0.6849    1.8
2021-01-24  19:15:29  15.08    1.8  100.0       0   40   0.6924    1.0
2021-01-24  19:15:30  14.70    2.0  100.0       0   39   0.6775    1.3
2021-01-24  19:15:31  14.27    2.0  100.0       0   39   0.6849    1.3
2021-01-24  19:15:32  14.96    5.4  100.0       0   38   0.6875    2.2
2021-01-24  19:15:33  20.87    8.6  100.0       0   40   0.6849    4.0
2021-01-24  19:15:34  17.99    1.8  100.0       0   40   0.6949    1.0
2021-01-24  19:15:35  20.13    4.7  100.0       0   39   0.6825    2.1
2021-01-24  19:15:36  26.74    8.6  100.0       0   40   0.6799    5.2
2021-01-24  19:15:37  17.59    6.4  100.0       0   40   0.6849    2.9
2021-01-24  19:15:38  24.15    6.6  100.0       0   39   0.6899    4.0
2021-01-24  19:15:39  19.51    5.6  100.0       0   38   0.9924    3.0
2021-01-24  19:15:40  25.08    7.3  100.0       0   40   0.6775    5.0
2021-01-24  19:15:41  20.18    8.1  100.0       0   43   1.1949    4.5
2021-01-24  19:15:42  37.77   12.0  100.0       0   44   1.0299    9.7
2021-01-24  19:15:43  25.12    6.2  100.0       0   39   0.7024    3.7
2021-01-24  19:15:44  30.44    7.0  100.0       0   40   0.6949    4.2
2021-01-24  19:15:45  33.46   22.1  100.0       0   41   0.6799    9.9
2021-01-24  19:15:46  15.08    5.3  100.0       0   41   0.6875    2.5
2021-01-24  19:15:47  18.51    6.3  100.0       0   40   0.6949    3.1
2021-01-24  19:15:48  26.08    7.4  100.0       0   40   0.8849    4.0
2021-01-24  19:15:49  32.23    9.0  100.0       0   41   0.7124    6.0
2021-01-24  19:15:50  21.93    6.0  100.0       0   41   1.0299    3.3
2021-01-24  19:15:51  29.32    7.5  100.0       0   41   0.7625    4.4
2021-01-24  19:15:52  30.40    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.6949    3.9
2021-01-24  19:15:53  40.34   10.8  100.0       0   46   1.2174    8.3
2021-01-24  19:15:54  25.86    2.2  100.0       0   40   0.6949    1.8
2021-01-24  19:15:55  15.72    1.5  100.0       0   41   0.7100    1.1
2021-01-24  19:15:56  25.06    2.9  100.0       0   41   0.7074    1.9
2021-01-24  19:15:57  25.28    4.2  100.0       0   40   0.7450    2.6
2021-01-24  19:15:58  30.42    7.6  100.0       0   41   0.8925    5.6
2021-01-24  19:15:59  32.27    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.6875    4.3
2021-01-24  19:16:00  22.80    3.6  100.0       0   41   0.6974    2.0
2021-01-24  19:16:01  21.93    1.0  100.0       0   40   0.9049    1.0
2021-01-24  19:16:02  23.83    4.3  100.0       0   41   0.7000    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:03  21.58    1.1  100.0       0   41   0.6899    0.8
2021-01-24  19:16:04  30.53    3.3  100.0       0   41   0.6974    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:05  29.74    3.3  100.0       0   40   0.9049    2.4
2021-01-24  19:16:06  23.60    5.7  100.0       0   41   0.7050    3.5
2021-01-24  19:16:07  24.01    5.5  100.0       0   41   0.8774    3.4
2021-01-24  19:16:08  14.74    5.5  100.0       0   41   0.6775    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:09  36.47    7.3  100.0       0   41   0.6924    5.2
2021-01-24  19:16:10  15.51    3.8  100.0       0   41   0.6725    1.7
2021-01-24  19:16:11  24.67    5.4  100.0       0   41   0.7050    3.2
2021-01-24  19:16:12  20.57    1.8  100.0       0   40   0.7150    1.0
2021-01-24  19:16:13  22.35    5.6  100.0       0   41   0.6899    2.8
2021-01-24  19:16:14  32.52    9.1  100.0       0   44   1.0299    5.5
2021-01-24  19:16:15  19.37    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.6924    3.5
2021-01-24  19:16:16  28.26    6.7  100.0       0   40   0.6849    4.0
2021-01-24  19:16:17  22.06    6.2  100.0       0   43   1.0299    3.1
2021-01-24  19:16:18  27.20    8.1  100.0       0   41   0.7274    4.7
2021-01-24  19:16:19  25.94    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.7000    3.5
2021-01-24  19:16:20  21.26    6.1  100.0       0   41   0.8250    3.2
2021-01-24  19:16:21  21.97    7.4  100.0       0   42   0.7625    3.2
2021-01-24  19:16:22  21.71    4.5  100.0       0   41   0.7274    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:31  18.85   10.7  100.0       0   41   0.8824    4.1
2021-01-24  19:16:32  19.08    4.0  100.0       0   41   0.6825    2.1
2021-01-24  19:16:33  17.46    3.9  100.0       0   41   0.6924    2.3
2021-01-24  19:16:34  17.40    5.4  100.0       0   41   0.6749    2.4
2021-01-24  19:16:35  17.85    6.4  100.0       0   41   0.6775    2.9
2021-01-24  19:16:36  14.39    5.3  100.0       0   41   0.6825    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:38  39.58   61.5  100.0       0   65   1.0349   21.7
2021-01-24  19:16:39  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   69   1.0325   39.2
2021-01-24  19:16:40  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   72   1.0349   39.4
2021-01-24  19:16:41  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   73   1.0349   39.6
2021-01-24  19:16:42  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   76   1.0349   40.1
2021-01-24  19:16:43  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   78   1.0349   40.4
2021-01-24  19:16:44  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   80   1.0349   40.9
2021-01-24  19:16:45  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   83   1.0349   41.1
2021-01-24  19:16:46  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   84   1.0375   42.1
2021-01-24  19:16:47  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   86   1.0375   41.5
2021-01-24  19:16:48  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   42.2
2021-01-24  19:16:49  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   42.5
2021-01-24  19:16:50  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   93   1.0375   43.0
2021-01-24  19:16:51  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   95   1.0375   43.9
2021-01-24  19:16:52  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   96   1.0375   43.4
2021-01-24  19:16:53  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0375   44.2
2021-01-24  19:16:54  40.87  100.0  100.0       0  100   1.0175   44.1
2021-01-24  19:16:55  40.34  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0175   43.0   TEMP
2021-01-24  19:16:56  39.48  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0175   41.6   PL1
2021-01-24  19:16:57  25.16  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.6924   20.8   PL1
2021-01-24  19:16:58  21.29  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.7100   12.8   PL1
2021-01-24  19:16:59  20.32  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.7024   12.6   PL1
```


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 25, 2021)

The last few seconds of your log file are interesting. You should have kept testing.

Thermal throttling is triggering extreme power limit throttling. Other laptops do not do this. Only Dell. Defective by design. Intel thermal throttling works fantastic. What Dell has done is a disaster. I would send it back. These issues usually get worse as Dell aptops age.


----------



## docarter (Jan 25, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> The last few seconds of your log file are interesting. You should have kept testing.
> 
> Thermal throttling is triggering extreme power limit throttling. Other laptops do not do this. Only Dell. Defective by design. Intel thermal throttling works fantastic. What Dell has done is a disaster. I would send it back. These issues usually get worse as Dell aptops age.


So, the reason why it throttled so badly is because on battery the PL1 is only 15w. When plugged in it will deliver ~27w continuously. It just happens to ignore Throttlestop completely.


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 25, 2021)

You were plugged in during the log file. Intel thermal throttling would allow the CPU to continue providing as much performance as possible.  The temperature should flatline at 99C. 

Dell throttling drops performance in half or worse. That is not what Intel wants to see happen. That is not how Intel designed their CPUs to perform when they get hot.


----------



## docarter (Jan 25, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> You were plugged in during the log file. Intel thermal throttling would allow the CPU to continue providing as much performance as possible.  The temperature should flatline at 99C.
> 
> Dell throttling drops performance in half or worse. That is not what Intel wants to see happen. That is not how Intel designed their CPUs to perform when they get hot.


This is additional logging, the device is plugged in after 2021-01-24  20:50:59  40.77    5.4  100.0       0   41   0.6699    6.6:



```
DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP    VID   POWER
2021-01-24  19:15:20  18.83   12.3  100.0       0   41   1.0974    4.4
2021-01-24  19:15:21  16.65    2.6  100.0       0   42   0.6924    1.7
2021-01-24  19:15:22  19.02    5.6  100.0       0   42   0.6849    3.2
2021-01-24  19:15:23  15.54    4.9  100.0       0   42   0.6699    2.1
2021-01-24  19:15:24  14.87    2.1  100.0       0   41   0.6875    1.2
2021-01-24  19:15:25  14.59    2.7  100.0       0   41   0.6849    1.3
2021-01-24  19:15:26  14.66    5.2  100.0       0   41   0.6825    2.3
2021-01-24  19:15:27  14.74    3.7  100.0       0   41   0.6699    1.8
2021-01-24  19:15:28  14.21    4.2  100.0       0   40   0.6849    1.8
2021-01-24  19:15:29  15.08    1.8  100.0       0   40   0.6924    1.0
2021-01-24  19:15:30  14.70    2.0  100.0       0   39   0.6775    1.3
2021-01-24  19:15:31  14.27    2.0  100.0       0   39   0.6849    1.3
2021-01-24  19:15:32  14.96    5.4  100.0       0   38   0.6875    2.2
2021-01-24  19:15:33  20.87    8.6  100.0       0   40   0.6849    4.0
2021-01-24  19:15:34  17.99    1.8  100.0       0   40   0.6949    1.0
2021-01-24  19:15:35  20.13    4.7  100.0       0   39   0.6825    2.1
2021-01-24  19:15:36  26.74    8.6  100.0       0   40   0.6799    5.2
2021-01-24  19:15:37  17.59    6.4  100.0       0   40   0.6849    2.9
2021-01-24  19:15:38  24.15    6.6  100.0       0   39   0.6899    4.0
2021-01-24  19:15:39  19.51    5.6  100.0       0   38   0.9924    3.0
2021-01-24  19:15:40  25.08    7.3  100.0       0   40   0.6775    5.0
2021-01-24  19:15:41  20.18    8.1  100.0       0   43   1.1949    4.5
2021-01-24  19:15:42  37.77   12.0  100.0       0   44   1.0299    9.7
2021-01-24  19:15:43  25.12    6.2  100.0       0   39   0.7024    3.7
2021-01-24  19:15:44  30.44    7.0  100.0       0   40   0.6949    4.2
2021-01-24  19:15:45  33.46   22.1  100.0       0   41   0.6799    9.9
2021-01-24  19:15:46  15.08    5.3  100.0       0   41   0.6875    2.5
2021-01-24  19:15:47  18.51    6.3  100.0       0   40   0.6949    3.1
2021-01-24  19:15:48  26.08    7.4  100.0       0   40   0.8849    4.0
2021-01-24  19:15:49  32.23    9.0  100.0       0   41   0.7124    6.0
2021-01-24  19:15:50  21.93    6.0  100.0       0   41   1.0299    3.3
2021-01-24  19:15:51  29.32    7.5  100.0       0   41   0.7625    4.4
2021-01-24  19:15:52  30.40    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.6949    3.9
2021-01-24  19:15:53  40.34   10.8  100.0       0   46   1.2174    8.3
2021-01-24  19:15:54  25.86    2.2  100.0       0   40   0.6949    1.8
2021-01-24  19:15:55  15.72    1.5  100.0       0   41   0.7100    1.1
2021-01-24  19:15:56  25.06    2.9  100.0       0   41   0.7074    1.9
2021-01-24  19:15:57  25.28    4.2  100.0       0   40   0.7450    2.6
2021-01-24  19:15:58  30.42    7.6  100.0       0   41   0.8925    5.6
2021-01-24  19:15:59  32.27    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.6875    4.3
2021-01-24  19:16:00  22.80    3.6  100.0       0   41   0.6974    2.0
2021-01-24  19:16:01  21.93    1.0  100.0       0   40   0.9049    1.0
2021-01-24  19:16:02  23.83    4.3  100.0       0   41   0.7000    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:03  21.58    1.1  100.0       0   41   0.6899    0.8
2021-01-24  19:16:04  30.53    3.3  100.0       0   41   0.6974    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:05  29.74    3.3  100.0       0   40   0.9049    2.4
2021-01-24  19:16:06  23.60    5.7  100.0       0   41   0.7050    3.5
2021-01-24  19:16:07  24.01    5.5  100.0       0   41   0.8774    3.4
2021-01-24  19:16:08  14.74    5.5  100.0       0   41   0.6775    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:09  36.47    7.3  100.0       0   41   0.6924    5.2
2021-01-24  19:16:10  15.51    3.8  100.0       0   41   0.6725    1.7
2021-01-24  19:16:11  24.67    5.4  100.0       0   41   0.7050    3.2
2021-01-24  19:16:12  20.57    1.8  100.0       0   40   0.7150    1.0
2021-01-24  19:16:13  22.35    5.6  100.0       0   41   0.6899    2.8
2021-01-24  19:16:14  32.52    9.1  100.0       0   44   1.0299    5.5
2021-01-24  19:16:15  19.37    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.6924    3.5
2021-01-24  19:16:16  28.26    6.7  100.0       0   40   0.6849    4.0
2021-01-24  19:16:17  22.06    6.2  100.0       0   43   1.0299    3.1
2021-01-24  19:16:18  27.20    8.1  100.0       0   41   0.7274    4.7
2021-01-24  19:16:19  25.94    6.3  100.0       0   41   0.7000    3.5
2021-01-24  19:16:20  21.26    6.1  100.0       0   41   0.8250    3.2
2021-01-24  19:16:21  21.97    7.4  100.0       0   42   0.7625    3.2
2021-01-24  19:16:22  21.71    4.5  100.0       0   41   0.7274    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:31  18.85   10.7  100.0       0   41   0.8824    4.1
2021-01-24  19:16:32  19.08    4.0  100.0       0   41   0.6825    2.1
2021-01-24  19:16:33  17.46    3.9  100.0       0   41   0.6924    2.3
2021-01-24  19:16:34  17.40    5.4  100.0       0   41   0.6749    2.4
2021-01-24  19:16:35  17.85    6.4  100.0       0   41   0.6775    2.9
2021-01-24  19:16:36  14.39    5.3  100.0       0   41   0.6825    2.2
2021-01-24  19:16:38  39.58   61.5  100.0       0   65   1.0349   21.7
2021-01-24  19:16:39  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   69   1.0325   39.2
2021-01-24  19:16:40  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   72   1.0349   39.4
2021-01-24  19:16:41  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   73   1.0349   39.6
2021-01-24  19:16:42  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   76   1.0349   40.1
2021-01-24  19:16:43  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   78   1.0349   40.4
2021-01-24  19:16:44  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   80   1.0349   40.9
2021-01-24  19:16:45  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   83   1.0349   41.1
2021-01-24  19:16:46  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   84   1.0375   42.1
2021-01-24  19:16:47  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   86   1.0375   41.5
2021-01-24  19:16:48  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   42.2
2021-01-24  19:16:49  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   42.5
2021-01-24  19:16:50  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   93   1.0375   43.0
2021-01-24  19:16:51  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   95   1.0375   43.9
2021-01-24  19:16:52  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   96   1.0375   43.4
2021-01-24  19:16:53  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0375   44.2
2021-01-24  19:16:54  40.87  100.0  100.0       0  100   1.0175   44.1
2021-01-24  19:16:55  40.34  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0175   43.0   TEMP
2021-01-24  19:16:56  39.48  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0175   41.6   PL1
2021-01-24  19:16:57  25.16  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.6924   20.8   PL1
2021-01-24  19:16:58  21.29  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.7100   12.8   PL1
2021-01-24  19:16:59  20.32  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.7024   12.6   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:00  21.93  100.0  100.0       0   77   0.7124   13.4   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:01  20.76  100.0  100.0       0   75   0.6949   12.9   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:02  21.63  100.0  100.0       0   74   0.6949   13.4   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:03  22.67  100.0  100.0       0   73   0.7050   13.8   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:04  22.32  100.0  100.0       0   73   0.7450   13.1   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:05  21.97  100.0  100.0       0   73   0.7150   13.7   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:06  23.95  100.0  100.0       0   73   0.7450   14.4   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:07  24.42  100.0  100.0       0   72   0.7450   15.3   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:08  23.60  100.0  100.0       0   71   0.7324   14.3   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:09  22.97  100.0  100.0       0   70   0.7024   13.9   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:10  24.40  100.0  100.0       0   71   0.7450   14.4   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:11  23.28  100.0  100.0       0   69   0.7024   14.5   PL1
2021-01-24  19:17:12  21.59   49.5  100.0       0   64   0.6599    8.1
2021-01-24  19:17:13  18.12    6.3  100.0       0   62   0.6575    3.1
2021-01-24  19:17:14  18.21    5.9  100.0       0   61   0.6675    2.9
2021-01-24  19:17:15  20.75    5.5  100.0       0   60   0.6649    3.0
2021-01-24  19:17:16  14.61    4.5  100.0       0   60   0.6675    2.3
2021-01-24  19:17:17  18.65    5.5  100.0       0   58   0.6575    3.2
2021-01-24  19:17:18  15.33    3.5  100.0       0   57   0.6699    1.9
2021-01-24  19:17:19  26.06    4.4  100.0       0   57   0.6649    2.9
2021-01-24  19:17:20  18.99    5.5  100.0       0   56   0.6675    2.6
2021-01-24  19:17:21  31.13    4.4  100.0       0   55   0.6575    3.2
2021-01-24  19:17:22  27.49    7.0  100.0       0   55   0.6949    4.4
2021-01-24  19:17:23  24.68    6.6  100.0       0   54   0.6725    3.4
2021-01-24  19:17:24  21.33    0.9  100.0       0   52   0.7024    0.7
2021-01-24  19:17:25  19.10    2.2  100.0       0   53   0.6675    1.2
2021-01-24  19:17:26  17.78    4.5  100.0       0   51   0.6849    2.1
2021-01-24  19:17:27  23.41    5.4  100.0       0   55   1.0325    3.0
2021-01-24  19:17:28  38.24    8.8  100.0       0   51   0.6949    6.8
2021-01-24  19:17:29  19.62    1.2  100.0       0   49   0.6799    0.8
2021-01-24  19:17:30  25.75    7.4  100.0       0   51   0.6849    5.3
2021-01-24  19:17:31  21.09    4.1  100.0       0   49   0.6875    2.3
2021-01-24  19:17:32  26.79    6.0  100.0       0   48   0.8999    4.3
2021-01-24  19:17:33  20.29    5.6  100.0       0   48   0.7450    3.0
2021-01-24  19:17:34  14.42    4.5  100.0       0   48   0.8849    2.0
2021-01-24  19:17:35  26.75    6.5  100.0       0   47   0.7725    4.0
2021-01-24  19:17:36  16.48    5.1  100.0       0   47   0.6799    2.2
2021-01-24  19:17:37  19.24    5.6  100.0       0   47   0.7124    2.9
2021-01-24  19:17:38  20.87    5.7  100.0       0   47   0.7250    2.6
2021-01-24  19:17:39  19.03    3.7  100.0       0   46   0.6749    1.7
2021-01-24  19:17:40  16.55    5.2  100.0       0   45   0.6725    2.2
2021-01-24  20:50:59  40.77    5.4  100.0       0   41   0.6699    6.6
2021-01-24  20:51:00  38.90    8.0  100.0       0   41   0.6775    7.7
2021-01-24  20:51:01  40.29    8.1  100.0       0   40   0.6775    8.1
2021-01-24  20:51:02  41.97    6.0  100.0       0   41   0.6699    6.9
2021-01-24  20:51:03  40.19   69.1  100.0       0   68   1.0325   27.5
2021-01-24  20:51:04  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   70   1.0325   41.9
2021-01-24  20:51:05  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   72   1.0349   41.5
2021-01-24  20:51:06  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   75   1.0349   42.7
2021-01-24  20:51:07  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   76   1.0349   43.0
2021-01-24  20:51:08  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   79   1.0349   43.1
2021-01-24  20:51:09  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   80   1.0375   43.3
2021-01-24  20:51:10  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   83   1.0375   43.8
2021-01-24  20:51:11  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   85   1.0349   44.7
2021-01-24  20:51:12  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   85   1.0349   44.6
2021-01-24  20:51:13  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   88   1.0375   45.0
2021-01-24  20:51:14  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   45.1
2021-01-24  20:51:15  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   92   1.0375   45.0
2021-01-24  20:51:16  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   93   1.0375   46.0
2021-01-24  20:51:17  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   93   1.0375   46.1
2021-01-24  20:51:18  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   96   1.0375   46.3
2021-01-24  20:51:19  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   98   1.0375   46.7
2021-01-24  20:51:20  37.97   32.3  100.0       0   69   0.6449   19.1
2021-01-24  20:51:21  17.74    1.8  100.0       0   68   0.6525    3.1
2021-01-24  20:51:22  15.08    2.2  100.0       0   66   0.6499    2.6
2021-01-24  20:51:23  15.10    3.4  100.0       0   65   0.6699    3.4
2021-01-24  20:51:24  16.92    3.8  100.0       0   61   0.6475    3.6
2021-01-24  20:51:25  16.18    3.6  100.0       0   60   0.6649    3.3
2021-01-24  20:51:26  38.22   48.8  100.0       0   85   1.0349   21.1
2021-01-24  20:51:27  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   44.6
2021-01-24  20:51:28  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   90   1.0375   45.3
2021-01-24  20:51:29  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   92   1.0375   45.5
2021-01-24  20:51:30  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   92   1.0375   44.9
2021-01-24  20:51:31  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   94   1.0375   46.3
2021-01-24  20:51:32  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   95   1.0375   46.2
2021-01-24  20:51:33  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   96   1.0375   46.2
2021-01-24  20:51:34  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   98   1.0375   46.5
2021-01-24  20:51:35  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0375   46.6
2021-01-24  20:51:36  41.00  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0375   46.8
2021-01-24  20:51:37  41.00  100.0  100.0       0  100   1.0375   46.8
2021-01-24  20:51:38  40.76  100.0  100.0       0  100   1.0175   46.3
2021-01-24  20:51:39  40.41  100.0  100.0       0  100   1.0175   46.5   TEMP
2021-01-24  20:51:40  40.01  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0175   45.1   TEMP
2021-01-24  20:51:41  39.78  100.0  100.0       0   99   1.0175   44.5   TEMP
2021-01-24  20:51:42  34.62  100.0  100.0       0   85   0.8574   31.8   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:43  31.00  100.0  100.0       0   83   0.8424   24.7   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:44  31.49  100.0  100.0       0   81   0.8574   24.5   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:45  31.52  100.0  100.0       0   80   0.8424   25.1   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:46  31.71  100.0  100.0       0   79   0.8450   25.1   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:47  32.00  100.0  100.0       0   80   0.8600   25.5   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:48  32.00  100.0  100.0       0   80   0.8600   25.2   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:49  32.13  100.0  100.0       0   79   0.8600   25.8   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:50  31.74  100.0  100.0       0   79   0.8600   26.1   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:51  31.36  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.8450   26.3   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:52  31.78  100.0  100.0       0   77   0.8600   25.5   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:53  32.00  100.0  100.0       0   79   0.8600   26.3   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:54  32.15  100.0  100.0       0   78   0.8600   26.0   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:55  32.30  100.0  100.0       0   77   0.8600   27.0   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:56  32.03  100.0  100.0       0   77   0.8600   25.9   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:57  32.96  100.0  100.0       0   77   0.8750   26.2   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:58  32.83  100.0  100.0       0   76   0.8600   26.7   PL1
2021-01-24  20:51:59  32.12  100.0  100.0       0   75   0.8600   26.7   PL1
```


----------



## Christian Reuter (Jan 26, 2021)

docarter said:


> Hey Christian, do you still own the Inspiron?


Yes. After updates from Dell the inspiron is now stuck to PL1 18w. I dont get the system behind it but it seems to be thermal based. So I lowered the PL2 to 25W and raised fanspeeds. Now the inspiron isnt falling back to PL1 18w, which is set by Dell and stays with my PL1 25W, which is set by throttlestop. Temps have to stay in the 80s to work this way. Its a real stupid workaround and not working everytime but last chance would be to edit biossettings and I dont want to try that.


----------



## docarter (Jan 26, 2021)

Christian Reuter said:


> Yes. After updates from Dell the inspiron is now stuck to PL1 18w. I dont get the system behind it but it seems to be thermal based. So I lowered the PL2 to 25W and raised fanspeeds. Now the inspiron isnt falling back to PL1 18w, which is set by Dell and stays with my PL1 25W, which is set by throttlestop. Temps have to stay in the 80s to work this way. Its a real stupid workaround and not working everytime but last chance would be to edit biossettings and I dont want to try that.



I'm working with a nice guy at Dell corporate. Do you want to pm me your email and service tag? Or possibly submit your own ticket to help this get resolved?

Currently awaiting word back from Dell's engineering team after Kevin Terwilliger at Dell got involved. (He's apparently head of Inspiron and Vostro devices at Dell).


----------



## thealgo (Jan 27, 2021)

As soon as i saw these posts, I had to create an account and post my experiences with dell regarding this

I too have a dell inspiron 7306 2 in 1 with the tigerlake 1165g7.    It really suffers from bad thermal design due to its very small exhaust (1cm x 2mm) as well as having part of the exhaust in the right hinge as well.

With all drivers installed and windows fully up to date,  the PL1 is 15w and PL2 is 51w by default.   This PL1 can rise up to 25w or so but quickly goes down too.

Pl1 and PL2 can actually be changed, but only to lower values than what is showing in (for example hwinfo).  These changes made will not update in hwinfo but will be made

Unfortunately it is absolutely not possible to set PL1 or PL2 values to higher than what is showing.   The system will first check, the changed values and if they are lower than pl1 or pl2, then will use the changed values.   Furthermore even in ultra performance mode plugged into battery.  This so called 25w pl1 quickly goes back down to 15w.  I even set Pl1 and PL2 to 18w.  So that the device will stay within 80c temps, but this pl1 goes up and down like a yo-yo from 15-18w when on load (even when temps are managable under 80c)..   I also artificially capped max frequency to 4ghz as i noticed that temps per core in stresstests in single core tests would hop over and reach 100c in one core only but the rest were 70c or so

This is what i had written in a dell forum (inspiron section here) https://www.dell.com/community/Insp...s-requested-to-improve-the-device/m-p/7787235    text as below...

Inspiron 7306 - Some fixes requested to improve the device
Having owned this laptop now for a few months (i7 1165g7, 16gb 4267 lpddr4x ram).  There are a few frustrations with it.  But i believe with some fixes to the issues (if possible on a bios level or driver update) - would give the laptop a whole new lease of life

Locked PL1
On battery, PL1 (Power limit 1) is fixed to 15w.   While this is ok for battery use, It would be nice to allow some control over it.  For example using quickcpu application or throttlestop, it is possible to change these values, but only to lower values as to what is set as default (15w) - These changes also do not update when using for example hwinfo to check pl1 and pl2 - they do however change internally - only to any value that is set under 15w.    My proposal - Allow pl1 to be changed with no limits to higher values if need be (or at least include a 17-18w option or so (the thermals, even though they are bad, can handle it just about at manageable temps)

Locked PL2
Not much problem with this at all, as PL2 is set to 51w, and can be changed to any value lower. No further change needed

PL1 adjustment on Power 

Even in Ultra performance mode, this is very poor.  It can go up to 25w but after a minute, the PL1 changes back down to 15w.    Overall. Would be good to have a 15w fixed,  18w fixed and 25w fixed profile (not to make the system auto change the pl1.   Yes, it would get understandably hot at 25w, but should throttle down when reaching temp threshold

Temp Threshold adjustment
Its very common for the laptop to reach temps of 100c (Its just my laptop model, but several users of the same laptop have had the same issue.  It would be nice to allow user configurable temperature threshold (say 90c or so if need be)

3200mhz speed ram for intel XE?
The device has 4267mhz ram.  But when using gpu-z, the ram is showing as 3200mhz (1600x2). ?  Why is this the case?  Is the ram downclocked fully to 3200mhz rather than the 4267 which it should be at?

Its not a problem with gpu-z, as i have seen other tigerlake laptops and gpu-z record 4000 (2000x2) or 4166 (2133x2).  Furthermore the ram is constantly static at 1600x2, it is not even dynamic, decreasing where necessary.   Can all this as well as getting the 4266mhz ram be rectified in the bios?   Its rather annoying to see a laptop advertised with ram speed 4267mhz where its actually limited to 3200mhz

High Uncore Wattages
When setting the laptop say to 15w tdp.  There is some power that is used by the uncore/cache etc.  This is typically in the region of 4-5w on load which only in turn gives the cpu and gpu an average of 10w power (from the 15w wattage set).   Some other tigerlake laptops have the uncore at 1 or even 2w less power on full load.   I was able to reduce the uncore slightly by turning on maximum power savings in the link pci option in power settings, but it is still too high.  Any way this can somewhat be reduced further?

Ok that is my rant over.  If PL1 can be unlocked fully (allowinhg to set it to any TDP value (or at least have static 15w, 17w, 18w etc options, it would be great.   and none of the dynamic pl1 scaling which works horribly bad.  Furthermore, unlocking the ram speed to 4266mhz would also be nice and help with mobile laptop "gaming" as the igpu is heavily dependant on fast ram for performance.




The response i recieved in my personal email was basically  "sorry, we cannot do anything about it, hope our assistance has been of help"... 

First email recieved Hi thealgorithm, unfortunately, the query posted doesn't fall under our preview of support. The parameters listed will not be available for driver or BIOS level changes. Do reach back to us if you have any hardware issue on the system that we can assist you, and we would be here to help. Regards"

and the second one

Hi thealgorithm, we hope that your query has been addressed. We will be archiving this case for now. Do reach back to us if you have any query, and we would be here to assist. Regards,


So much for paying £1200+ for a laptop and not to even implement at least some static form of pl1 changing instead of the random dynamic pl1 adjustment even when temps are manageable!


----------



## docarter (Jan 27, 2021)

Hey, so I'm in contact with an "International Product Support Principle Engineer" at Dell who is reaching out to various members of Dell's bios and DPM teams to alert them of the power limit issue and to make revisions. If you're interested, please pm me with your email, system info, and service tag and I will forward this complaint along with my own. I will also further investigate the ram speed and my system shows the same values in gpu-z.

It is worth noting: Dell quotes your laptop at 15w versus 28w for my 14 7000. See: https://dl.dell.com/topicspdf/inspiron-13-7306-2-in-1-laptop_users-guide2_en-us.pdf


As for temperatures, the Inspiron 14 7000 (7400) does much better, sustaining 27w at around 75C.


----------



## thealgo (Jan 27, 2021)

Thanks.   Its not so much the thermals thats the main issue.  I at least want to be able for it to have static pl1 such as 18w and for it to absolutely not shift back below this value.  The thermals can handle that.   For dell to have a performance mode and to only have that performance mode usable for 40 seconds is absurd (though i can understand that the laptop (7306) cannot really run sustained at 26w. (at least let it sustain at 18w)

I have pm'd you my details


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 27, 2021)

Product Specifications
					

quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.




					ark.intel.com
				



With the 11th Gen processors, Intel has changed their TDP rating system. The 10th Gen and earlier processors used to come with a default TDP value. That has been removed from Intel's specs. The 11th Gen have a TDP-up rating of 28W and a TDP-down rating of 12W. At TechSpot they call this the "operating range". 









						Intel Core i7-1165G7 Review: Tiger Lake Inside
					

It's time we check out Intel's new Tiger Lake mobile CPUs, starting with the Core i7-1165G7, a part that will be mostly found on mainstream to high-end...




					www.techspot.com
				




As long as the CPU is running somewhere within this range, it is technically running within spec. The log files posted do not seem to show power limit throttling at less than 12W.

Individual manufacturers that use the 1165G7 can decide how this CPU will run within their laptop. It is up to consumers to decide whether that level of performance is acceptable or not.

@docarter - Your log file is showing that Dell is allowing your 1165G7 to run at up to 47W. This is well beyond the TDP range that Intel recommends. This causes thermal throttling which then triggers Dell's power limit throttling scheme. I disagree with this scheme but it is a huge improvement compared to the throttling schemes that Dell were using 12+ years ago. Their Core 2 Duo based laptops could drop their performance down to approximately 5% of the rated performance. Many Dell laptops have used a variety of questionable throttling schemes ever since.


thealgo said:


> sorry, we cannot do anything about it


That is why I shop elsewhere. No more Dell laptops for me.

Dell could fix this problem by limiting the 1165G7 to a maximum of 28W instead of 47W. This will prevent it from thermal throttling so it will not trigger the power limit throttling issues that you are having. You will end up with less peak performance and less overall performance than what you have now.



docarter said:


> Dell's engineering team


Dell's engineers created the thermal throttling triggered, power limit throttling scheme. This is not new to Dell laptops. I do not see them changing anything to keep a handful of customers happy. Hopefully I am wrong.


----------



## thealgo (Jan 27, 2021)

The problem of overzealous power can be fixed in throttlestop simply by changing pl2 to say 20w or so  (by default it is 51w on the inspiron 7306 and believe me, it will try and use all that power till temps get to 100c then throttle immediately too)  after 40 seconds or so will use pl1 power    The issue is that setting 18w for both pl1 and pl2 will waver the wattage between 15-18w on load even if temps are below 80c..   For light "gaming" its not nice to see a game performing "well" then for dell to limit wattage to 15w within few minutes reducing framerates - even though temps are under controll    The request is merely to allow static pl1 at 18w or so in optimised mode


----------



## docarter (Jan 27, 2021)

thealgo said:


> The problem of overzealous power can be fixed in throttlestop simply by changing pl2 to say 20w or so  (by default it is 51w on the inspiron 7306 and believe me, it will try and use all that power till temps get to 100c then throttle immediately too)  after 40 seconds or so will use pl1 power    The issue is that setting 18w for both pl1 and pl2 will waver the wattage between 15-18w on load even if temps are below 80c..   For light "gaming" its not nice to see a game performing "well" then for dell to limit wattage to 15w within few minutes reducing framerates - even though temps are under controll    The request is merely to allow static pl1 at 18w or so in optimised mode


I checked hwinfo64 and the memory on my system is actually running at approx 4.1ghz. Can you check somewhere other than GPU-Z, because that application shows the lower values but I don't think it's right.


----------



## thealgo (Jan 27, 2021)

I already checked hw info and it does show what you are also mentioning indicating 4267mhz.   But the wierd part is gpu Z listing igpu clock speed as lower.    I have seen  gpu-z (same version) on other tigerlake laptops/handhelds (including prototype of a gpd win 3) which show higher clock speeds there in gpu-z, hence was wondering if somewhat there was some ram limiting in any shared gpu ram (taken from system ram)


----------



## Pressy (Feb 21, 2021)

@docarter I was wondering if your Dell contact provided any updates to you on the power limitations that appeared to be EC related?
Thanks, P


----------



## (00) (Mar 9, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> @Christian Reuter - The sad news is that for the 11th Gen U series, Intel has either blocked access to the FIVR controls or the FIVR that they have been using since the 4th Gen Haswell no longer exists in this design. Personally, I think Intel simply blocked access but I am always looking for a conspiracy to uncover.
> 
> This means that ThrottleStop can neither read or write any of the FIVR voltages like it used to do on previous generation Intel CPUs. That is why the voltage table in the ThrottleStop FIVR window is mostly blank.
> 
> ...



Oh well, if I can't use ThrottleStop on Intel, then I will just buy AMD instead. AMD CPUs are just as powerful and use a *LOT* less power. With ThrottleStop most of the Intel power problems, could have been overcome. But, without it,,, !! AMD BABY !!  8 )))

(00)


----------



## DAWMan (Mar 9, 2021)

Had high hopes for a Tiger Lake desktop. Looks like the “leaks” were to keep folks from buying an AMD.
Intel looks to lose again in 2021.

If AMD 5000 APUs become available this year Intel will need a big score with Alder Lake.


----------



## Artorias38 (Mar 16, 2021)

Hey
i also use an inspirion 7306 2 in 1. Unfortunately i can't return the device and also now bought an egpu for it.
Is it useful to set the Intel Power Balance to CPU 25 and GPU 6?
Is there anything else I can do to lighten the load on my super fast throttling CPU? How can I set the power profile to 28 watts?
Is there anything else I can do to improve the new Intel CPUs? I really miss undervolting!!!

I used a thermal pad to connect the heatpipe with the chassis. Hope to transport a little bit heat with it...


----------



## unclewebb (Mar 16, 2021)

Artorias38 said:


> Is it useful


The Intel Power Balance feature is rarely useful. I have never tested this on an 11th Gen CPU so no idea if it still works or not.

You can try adjusting the power limits in the ThrottleStop TPL window. Most recent Dell laptops set their own turbo power limits internally which will override any software requests. That means if you set 50W in ThrottleStop and Dell thinks 15W is enough, then you will be limited to 15W. Some Dell laptops drop down to the single digits and there is nothing you can do about it.

Reducing heat is always a good thing but sadly, this will not improve performance if the real problem are power limits that are set too conservatively. Single core performance of the 11th Gen looks good but it is hard to get excited when you see how well the 10th Gen laptops can run. Here is an HP laptop with a 15W CPU. No power limits.


----------



## Artorias38 (Mar 16, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> The Intel Power Balance feature is rarely useful. I have never tested this on an 11th Gen CPU so no idea if it still works or not.
> 
> You can try adjusting the power limits in the ThrottleStop TPL window. Most recent Dell laptops set their own turbo power limits internally which will override any software requests. That means if you set 50W in ThrottleStop and Dell thinks 15W is enough, then you will be limited to 15W. Some Dell laptops drop down to the single digits and there is nothing you can do about it.
> 
> Reducing heat is always a good thing but sadly, this will not improve performance if the real problem are power limits that are set too conservatively. Single core performance of the 11th Gen looks good but it is hard to get excited when you see how well the 10th Gen laptops can run. Here is an HP laptop with a 15W CPU. No power limits.


So I am stuck with this sometimes poor performance?In my case its a thermal problem. it hits 100°C and after that its just going down with the performance .

Is it usefull to limit boost clockspeed like this?

Edit: its locked to 18 watt now ... what the f*** Pl2 limit?
Edit 2: I swear that this is new, normaly tis going to 28W and then starting to throttle pretty fast but now I am completly locked to 18W...
Edit 3: okay now i have like 20sec boost to >30W but then the Pl1 kicks in and it throttes again. is there some way to override the Dell settings?


----------



## unclewebb (Mar 16, 2021)

Artorias38 said:


> Is it useful to limit boost clock speed like this?


Running your CPU slower than its rated speed will reduce peak power consumption. This might help it run more consistently and help you avoid significant performance variations when gaming. 



Artorias38 said:


> is there some way to override the Dell settings?


The power settings are controlled internally by an embedded controller which software like ThrottleStop does not have access to. At times it will probably feel like the power limits are changing randomly. No one knows what exact algorithm is used or what sensors can trigger power limit throttling. 28W is not guaranteed for continuous use. If the CPU is running at 18W, that is within the Intel spec.


----------



## Artorias38 (Mar 18, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Running your CPU slower than its rated speed will reduce peak power consumption. This might help it run more consistently and help you avoid significant performance variations when gaming.
> 
> 
> The power settings are controlled internally by an embedded controller which software like ThrottleStop does not have access to. At times it will probably feel like the power limits are changing randomly. No one knows what exact algorithm is used or what sensors can trigger power limit throttling. 28W is not guaranteed for continuous use. If the CPU is running at 18W, that is within the Intel spec.


Yeah I thought the same. Thanks!


unclewebb said:


> No one knows what exact algorithm is used or what sensors can trigger power limit throttling


Nice.. that sounds good. There was someone in this forum that has contact to leader of the inspirion team from Dell. Perhabs they change something there. The loss of undervolting is really a game changer.


----------



## unclewebb (Mar 18, 2021)

Artorias38 said:


> contact to leader of the Inspiron team


Nothing ever came of this. When a variety of throttling methods are built deep into the belly of the beast, not much chance of there ever being any significant change to rectify things. Never hold your breath waiting for an update to cure everything. When you buy a laptop, it should be ready for sale. If it is full of throttling problems, I would return it immediately and get something else. No one should be forced to slow their CPU down because the manufacturer could not be bothered to include an adequate heatsink and fan.


----------



## docarter (Mar 24, 2021)

Pressy said:


> @docarter I was wondering if your Dell contact provided any updates to you on the power limitations that appeared to be EC related?
> Thanks, P



Sorry for the late reply, he said "it’s in relation to how the Dell Power Manager/BIOS and the Intel Dynamic Platform Framework Driver work together."

I'm expecting a bios to test within the month and a public release shortly afterward if there are no issues.


----------



## thealgo (Mar 25, 2021)

There is a solution to force the TDP on the dell 7306 (and to actually keep that static....).    But only works when connected to power.  

First I disabled dptf by claiming ownership of the driverstore folder, turning off the network connection,  keeping the names of the two folders starting with dptf.
Then removing everything in relation fo dynamic tuning in windows device manager as well as uninstalling dynamic tuning driver.
Then would create the two folders (dptf) and change the security to not allow any files to be created within

Then after a reboot the device stays at pl1 of 15w and pl2 of 18.5w

The next step is to download a batch tdp script (with files) - i cant upload them here, but you can get them from the gpd win 2/3/max discord server (known as ciphray bat script).   He has made it work with tigerlake and it actually now changes the pl1 and pl2 values. (Pl1 and PL2 wil also show changes in hwinfo) unlike quickcpu or throttlestop, where it does not.     You can now set it to any tdp, and it will not adjust itself automatically  It will stay at that tdp that is set and wont go below pl1.

Due to poor thermals, dont expect more than 20w at 75-80c temps...          I have benchmarked the device at 28w and it mainly stayed at 26-27w on load, but temps were 100c... (not healthy)

On battery, there is a hard lock eventually after 1 minute or so where it will be limited to 15w,  even with pl1/pl2 changed


----------



## ChouMaKen (Mar 25, 2021)

I just receive my new  specter x360 with the same CPU & as expected, everything seems to be locked
is there still any tweaks I can do with TS to get smoother performance out of the tigerlake ?

thank you


----------



## unclewebb (Mar 25, 2021)

ChouMaKen said:


> everything seems to be locked


There is no more voltage control available with the 11th Gen Tiger Lake so not much you can do. If you have any power limit throttling problems, try following the advice in post #38 to disable and delete the DTPF driver. 









						Throttlestop on TigerLake-U i7 1165G7
					

The problem of overzealous power can be fixed in throttlestop simply by changing pl2 to say 20w or so  (by default it is 51w on the inspiron 7306 and believe me, it will try and use all that power till temps get to 100c then throttle immediately too) :) after 40 seconds or so will use pl1 power...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## ChouMaKen (Mar 27, 2021)

@unclewebb TPL1 * 2 doesn't seems to be locked for me, I can change them however I am not sure if it is "better" to hit "Power Throttling" or "thermal" ??

I mean that I can lower TP1 * TPL2 to 18w & 28w my cpu temps will remain coolish but i will have power limit or set TPL1 & TPL2 to 35 & 51 in which case no power throttling but quick thermal ones

thank u


----------



## unclewebb (Mar 27, 2021)

ChouMaKen said:


> "Power Throttling" or "thermal"


I do not think it really matters. Throttling is throttling. Some users find one or the other is smoother but it should not make any significant difference. 

Did you have to remove the DPTF driver or do anything else or did the PL1 and PL2 power limits just work for you?


----------



## ChouMaKen (Mar 27, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> I do not think it really matters. Throttling is throttling. Some users find one or the other is smoother but it should not make any significant difference.
> 
> Did you have to remove the DPTF driver or do anything else or did the PL1 and PL2 power limits just work for you?


No I didn't remove anything, I changed the TPL values and gave a bench test and there respected




thank you



ChouMaKen said:


> No I didn't remove anything, I changed the TPL values and gave a bench test and there respected
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did more tests on my Spectre x360 2021 with a i7-1165G7 CPU

these are the TLP of the different Profiles of HP Command Center

* Quite PL1 15w - PL2 15w
* Performance PL1 45w - PL2 45w (Thermal throttling kicks in at 45w and throttles the CPU all the time after that so not sure if the limit is higher)
* Balanced PL1 18w - PL2 18w
* Cool PL1 8.5w - PL2 8.5w

So what I did is set the profile to performance and used PL1 18w - PL2 28w

after going to PL1 - when does the CPU goes back to PL2 ?


----------



## Artorias38 (Apr 13, 2021)

thealgo said:


> There is a solution to force the TDP on the dell 7306 (and to actually keep that static....).    But only works when connected to power.
> 
> First I disabled dptf by claiming ownership of the driverstore folder, turning off the network connection,  keeping the names of the two folders starting with dptf.
> Then removing everything in relation fo dynamic tuning in windows device manager as well as uninstalling dynamic tuning driver.
> ...


I will try that! Sounds promising. Is it possible to send me the needed data? 

I am no using now an eGPU. Is it possible to get an option in Throttlestop that shifts the wattage to the CPU if an egpu is connected?


----------



## unclewebb (Apr 14, 2021)

Artorias38 said:


> Is it possible to get an option in Throttlestop that shifts the wattage to the CPU if an egpu is connected?


I believe this happens automatically. The power limit is for the entire CPU package which includes the Intel GPU. If the Intel GPU is not being used, power consumption of it approaches zero. That allows the CPU to run faster and to consume more power before turbo power limit throttling kicks in.



ChouMaKen said:


> after going to PL1 - when does the CPU goes back to PL2 ?


I cannot remember reading anything in the Intel public documentation about how long it takes to go back to PL1.


----------



## thealgo (Apr 15, 2021)

Artorias38 said:


> I will try that! Sounds promising. Is it possible to send me the needed data?
> 
> I am no using now an eGPU. Is it possible to get an option in Throttlestop that shifts the wattage to the CPU if an egpu is connected?


IF you search for "gpd win discord" on google, there will be a link to the discord that has these files (in the tools section). I dont think i am allowed to link to the files directly. But i can ask later.

You will also need to disable DPTF and remove dynamic tuning from the laptop.   Furthermore on battery, there is a hard limit of 15w or so for pl1 (even if PL1 shows higher values)

The thermals on the 7306 are attrocious however.  But 20w pl1 and pl2 is fine to keep it in the 90c range when maxed out. (sometimes gets higher).




ChouMaKen said:


> after going to PL1 - when does the CPU goes back to PL2 ?



It should get back to PL2 when there is an idle state of more than 5 seconds, and then usually PL2 by default on the 7306 should be around 50 seconds or so (not possible to change this yet)


----------



## thealgo (Apr 26, 2021)

Just an update concerning the dell 7306.   I can now run the laptop at 25w sustained with fans on medium for hours on end with temperatures within 77-82c or so at maximum cpu/igpu load.

Repaste the cpu, place thermal pads across the heat-pipes to touch the back lid, and disable dptf as well as using the tools to change pl1/pl2 to your required limit(s)


----------



## Mike2021 (May 2, 2021)

thealgo said:


> Just an update concerning the dell 7306.   I can now run the laptop at 25w sustained with fans on medium for hours on end with temperatures within 77-82c or so at maximum cpu/igpu load.
> 
> Repaste the cpu, place thermal pads across the heat-pipes to touch the back lid, and disable dptf as well as using the tools to change pl1/pl2 to your required limit(s)


Hi man. I just registered to say thank you. I bought a Dell Inspiron 5502 with core i7 1165g7 and Geforce mX330, but the problem is when you use MX330 it gets throttled to 300MHz (!!!!!) from 1750, causing all sorts of stuttering and making games unplayable. I repasted, got cooling pad, used Asus Gpu Tweak, but the laptop cant really hold MX 330, gets above 85deg every time (even on frequencies 600-900!) and laptop shuts down. So I switched to integrated Tiger Lake graphics, and actually in theory its not that much worse than MX330, but then 15W TDP kicked in and GPU gets throttled again! I followed the steps you gave and finally with 25W TDP I can actually play some games. By the way, do you set the TDPs from the main menus? Cause there is also another bat file something about docked TDP? Also do I need to run this program on each startup and set TDP manually each time? On a side note, I dont understand how can laptop manufacturers and especially Dell cripple so much their laptops, I think it's not legal.


----------



## Artorias38 (May 3, 2021)

thealgo said:


> Just an update concerning the dell 7306.   I can now run the laptop at 25w sustained with fans on medium for hours on end with temperatures within 77-82c or so at maximum cpu/igpu load.
> 
> Repaste the cpu, place thermal pads across the heat-pipes to touch the back lid, and disable dptf as well as using the tools to change pl1/pl2 to your required limit(s)


Did you put thermal pads along the hole pipe? I did just a small peace like 3 cm at the end of the pipe


I have to try it. Will do it this evening. Hope it goes well.

It worked, but how can I set it permanently?


----------



## Mike2021 (May 4, 2021)

Artorias38 said:


> Did you put thermal pads along the hole pipe? I did just a small peace like 3 cm at the end of the pipe
> 
> 
> I have to try it. Will do it this evening. Hope it goes well.
> ...


As far as I understood, you have to run the program each time you boot the computer. So you boot Windows, load the .bat, set the undervolt and then execute you custom TDP profile.


----------



## docarter (May 4, 2021)

Have you tried Dell's Power Manager application? Ultra performance mode in that will auto-set your power limits higher every boot.

If that does not work for you, then you can use task scheduler to auto-start the program on boot.


----------



## thealgo (May 4, 2021)

The Dell power manager is no good.  It will determine dynamically the PL1 and will not be consistant.   I prefer the method of disabling this automation entirely and being able to have static pl1 without it changing.   (I do set ultra performance in the bios however, as i believe that also sets fan curvers more aggressively, which helps if i run it at higher wattage)


----------



## Artorias38 (May 6, 2021)

There is the possibility to set an Auto.bat  I hope the change it with the next bios and we dont need to do this mess 

Edit: I use the optimized setting in the Dell Power Tool. I thought the Ultra performance uses more power during Idle in battery mode also. I dont want to change every time I take it with me. Thanks I will try that, too.


----------



## extremecarver (May 11, 2021)

On the lg gram 16y90p i5-1135g7 it is absolutely essential to set PP0 Current Limit to 180 or higher. If you set that one too low, you get EDP other and PL1 throttling to 15w, sometimes to 11 or 12w. I tried removing the intel dynamic tuning stuff, that was great but on first reboot it got crazy slow. Then I increased PP0 to 360 and 20 minutes it´s running at 28w thermal throttling. PL1 throttling and EDP throttling never to be seen again. Maybe that should be included into guides for tiger lake. But well I don not know if this is lg gram specific, or i5 tiger lake specific or whatever. All what I know is that the same lg gram 16 with i7 was throttling less on PL1 at the same settings of 105 PP0. While the i5 would start throttling after 50 seconds on 1 core turbo full speed, the i7 would keep up way longer. On multicore the i5 anyhow rips the i7 if cooling is limited. And battery life on i7 vs i5 sucks as well. While the i5 gets 12w package power on 4170mhz 100% load, the i7 uses 18w at 4500mhz. Yes faster but at what expense. At 16.5w the i7 would then also drop down to 4170w, oh yeah and on the limited cooling it never goes faster than 4500 for longer anyhow. So if your PC cannot cool 20w on singlecore, or 28-30w on multicore, forget the i7. The i5 will be a little bit faster, consume 1-2w less on multicore full load, and 1/3 less on single core full load.

See those i5 scores and look up the i7 scores of the lg gram 2021. The i5 literally destroys the i7 - and that with 10-20% better battery life. Those benchmarks were run in power saver mode, LG control center performance cooling (which is still a joke and super silent, speedshift 128). Oh yeah and a screenshot showing that at idle the lg gram is really efficient. However light load even the i5 isn´t great. The batterinfoview is with screen on lowest brightness, that is however still quite bright (i guess 80 nits or so). If the tiger lake would be more efficient on light workload 20-30 hours would be soo easy too achieve. Right now idle is like 45 hour battery life, Watching video at min brightness 20-30 hours (4K vs FHD) or 15-20 hours at 80% brightness, but office work, browsing with edge canary and performance mode activated like 13-15 hours at 80% brightness. 80wH battery has some good things. But even tiger lake i5 which is way better than i7 sees no land vs ARM based Mac M1... I guess we have to wait for Alder lake to crush battery life and equal with M1 (however much worse for high load, I don´t seem X86 going equal there).

Oh yeah, and if your tiger lake is not 75% C10 on idle but only in C8, it will consume 1w more minimum. The problem is there are seemingly miriads of ways to disable C10 until next reboot. Tiger lake without C10 is just really bad. i5 tiger lake with C10 kicking in aggressively, is actually pretty power efficient. Though I´m not sure it can match undervolted comet lake even remotely. I think for battery life undervolted comet lake with the slow Intel UHD still rules. Now if we could undervolt tiger lake it would actually be besting earlier generations in nearly everthing I guess... Still hope microsoft and intel will still improve a bit on tiger lake. Edge Performance mode is really an improvement, while Firefox and Chrome sadly are unusable on tiger lake and munching your battery.

The lower number in R15/R20 were with optimal cooling in LG - meaning not much cooling at all...


----------



## docarter (May 11, 2021)

I really like and almost bought a Gram. However, I preferred the form factor of the Inspiron 14 and Dell has amazing turnaround on warranty (next day on site service). Also, another huge issue with LG is the cooling solution. It appears to be mostly adequate, but the Inspiron has dual heat pipes as opposed to the signal heat pipe on the Gram and also has a big battery (78wh). In practice, the Inspiron can dissipate around 50w of heat from the CPU & GPU or about 38w from just the CPU at 92C. Also, I find that the Xe 96 in the 1165g7 is worth it.

As for performance numbers, I think it's fair to say that OEMs are leaving room on the table for tuning these laptops.

Timespy: 1,835


----------



## extremecarver (May 11, 2021)

Yes the gram has horrible cooling. 23-28w on all core depending on how much GPU is used. And about 16-18w on single core meaning the not even on single core the i7 can run full speed, but only around 4500Mhz while the i5 runs at 11-12w at 4200mhz without throttling - however it throttles heavily without adapting the pp0.

Yes and service sucks outright. Especially if you live in a smaller country. No way around dell or Lenovo on the business tier.

However the gram if pp0 adjusted does much better than the X1 Carbon that has better cooling but horrible throttling. Wonder of pp0 adjustment works on X1 Carbon too?

Inspiron 14 is another weight and size class, plus the screen is no match. But yes I feel only lg gram 16 and 17 are really worth it. For the 14 there are many better alternatives if you can live with 200g more and mostly worse battery life. I love the light weight, huge battery on the 16 however. Plus that it has 2 nvme slots.

Right now I feel 1145g7 is the best processor of tiger lake. The 96 execution units are not worth it, they just burn power. It's only the single core on U processor that makes the i7 faster than i5. And only with good cooling. With average or bad cooling the i5 will be 10-20 percent faster on all core while being 10 percent max slower on single core. And that while using 5-33 percent less battery! On average for me 20 percent longer battery life!!!!


----------



## docarter (May 11, 2021)

extremecarver said:


> Yes the gram has horrible cooling. 23-28w on all core depending on how much GPU is used. And about 16-18w on single core meaning the not even on single core the i7 can run full speed, but only around 4500Mhz while the i5 runs at 11-12w at 4200mhz without throttling - however it throttles heavily without adapting the pp0.
> 
> Yes and service sucks outright. Especially if you live in a smaller country. No way around dell or Lenovo on the business tier.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure if you've seen teardowns, but the Gram 14 and 16 use identical motherboards and cooling solutions, so a 14" is more comparable than you think.

Anyway, the screen on the Inspiron isn't bad. It's 2.5k and 98% SRGB and around 360 nits of brightness. I'd say it's hard to perceive but the biggest issue is with sharpness. I think overall I prefer a matte screen, but they aren't ever as sharp (especially text) as a glossy panel.

I know these laptops seem "bad," but looking back just two laptop purchases, performance has gotten _much better_. I went from a 4200u > 6200u > 8665u > 1165g7. The 4200u achieved 229 multi score in Cinebench R15 versus over 1,000 for the 1165g7. Not to mention the increase in iGPU performance.


----------



## extremecarver (May 11, 2021)

docarter said:


> I'm not sure if you've seen teardowns, but the Gram 14 and 16 use identical motherboards and cooling solutions, so a 14" is more comparable than you think.
> 
> Anyway, the screen on the Inspiron isn't bad. It's 2.5k and 98% SRGB and around 360 nits of brightness. I'd say it's hard to perceive but the biggest issue is with sharpness. I think overall I prefer a matte screen, but they aren't ever as sharp (especially text) as a glossy panel.
> 
> I know these laptops seem "bad," but looking back just two laptop purchases, performance has gotten _much better_. I went from a 4200u > 6200u > 8665u > 1165g7. The 4200u achieved 229 multi score in Cinebench R15 versus over 1,000 for the 1165g7. Not to mention the increase in iGPU performance.


Oh didn't know the Inspiron 14 had over FHD resolution. Where tiger lake is great is av1. And av1 is the future for video. The gram 14 has a little less room for air flow, and the worst screen of the bunch and only 1920*1200 and ,300 nits. The gram 17 has the best screen. Factory calibrated mostly now and 400 nits. Plus there is no competition for light and good battery life with that screen size. For the 14 many alternatives. Gram 16 has 350nits.  The rest is the same...


----------



## extremecarver (May 15, 2021)

Some more insight on i5 s i7 on the LG gram with limited cooling and on the efficiency - this explains why the i5 is running faster multicore vs the i7. And it also explains why the i7 is using way much more battery vs the i5 except when idle with >70% in C10. In general - tiger lake runs super efficient up to about 3200-3500mhz. Any speed increase over that (at least with current voltages) need a lot of power. Really a lot. If you are on battery then set EPP to 170 (on the i5) or I guess 180 (on the i7) to have a fast system, that does not burn through your battery fast. Because the i7 runs hotter at the same speed, and if cooling is very limited as in most ultrabooks, the i7 will be heavily disadvantaged in multi core load as below 3000 mhz the tiger lake is getting less and less efficient. At 1800mhz it becomes unresponsive crap... Set EPP to 255 to have your typing in edge lagging 2-3 seconds, moving mouse slow and so on. Kinda would be good if windows would first load up one core fully to 3200mhz before offloading to any other core. If you are travelling and know you have rare access to energy might be a good solution to just hard switch of 2 of the 4 cores. Did not try that but as this is possible this could be the best solution if you know you do not need a lot of power - but best battery life. Too bad this is kinda complicated (risky - heard of people bricking the notebook when doing this) and not possible to change without reboot. I guess the optimum efficiency for the CPU alone is around 3000mhz, but as you have more parts consuming power going for an EPP that gives your around 3500mhz. Therefore the best strategy would be if windows would only fire up another core once one thread is at 3500mhz fully loaded (not so sure about hyperthreading and full load) - and keep the rest of the cores at min speed in C10 (so L3 cache is switched off). However windows starts balancing load to more cores at much lower load - which is especially bad as the L3 cache needs quite a lot of power - and only fully idle the C10 state is activated for a core... There is definitely quite a lot of room for windows to improve on tiger lake efficiency, which still kinda sucks being at best on Kaby Lake Refresh levels for light work load. Efficiency is great around the 3000-3500mhz range.


Single core and graphics the i7 will be 5-15 percent faster. However at the expense of using way more power. Multicore the i7 uses only a tiny bit more power but is 5-10 percent slower due to heat once throttling starts. Maybe it's hotter because more things in the same space. And in my case the i7 was able to run at 1w more power, so the cooling definitely wasn't against it. I will at some point repaste the i5, maybe try to fix another heatpipe, but space seems limited for that.

I looked a bit a some single core power usage - and it really seems anything above 3500 mhz or so really needs incrementally more power. I should have limited the i7 to 4200 mhz to have a fair comparison. However if you need to limit the i7 to 4200mhz, because it just needs unreasonably much power when going faster - there is not much sense in buying the i7. It really seems Intel can only reach speeds over 3500-3600mhz or so by using loads of power. The faster it is running , the worse the efficiency. However until 3200-3500mhz or so the efficiency is really good.

If I set EPP to 180 running an installer that extracts many small files (5-10MB each) at 3500 mhz it uses around 8w. At EPP 128 and 4200mhz it needs around 14w. Even though this is single thread, I think because of many small files, it taxes the CPU more than simple CPU benchmark.
So lets stop the time how long the installer needs at different EPP to get this correct:
EPP 128 - package power around 13.5w - speed about 4000mhz, C0 around 16%: 2:00.63 minutes
EPP 170 - package power around 9.5 - speed around 3500mhz - C0 around 14%: 2:19:56 minutes.
EPP 80 - package power around 14w - speed about 4100 mhz - C0 around 16%: 1:59.08 minutes.
As I already more or less knew - single core EPP 128 at least on the i5 more or less gives full speed. EPP 80 is more relevant when running two tasks minimum. EPP 10 would maybe shave another second.
So 13.5w*121=1633.5
9.5w*140=1330

So increasing the turbo even more - will just run into much worse efficiency regions. If you are using power not battery, and your laptop has good enough cooling - great. The i7 is the way to go. The i7 would have likely used around 20w for this task at EPP 128. While doing it in 1:48 minutes or so (I'm just guessing from the numbers I know previously, I don't have an i7 to compare anymore - This is a very positive guess for the i7. As the speed increase usually was even less while it used around 6w more if not throtling.).
That would be an hypothetical:
20*108=2160....

Now let's see EPP 210 and EPP 255.
EPP 210 - package power around 5.8w - speed around 2500mhz - C0 around 14% 3:18.79
5.8*199=1154 (however mind this is pure package power - the total consumption would add around 2-3w to all of this figures for screen, nvme, mainboard and so on). EPP 210 cannot increase the efficiency in reality anymore. (I do know 170-180EPP gives me best efficiency. Likely 180 is the best)

EPP 255 (now everything is sluggish - if another task is running. It's painful to even type).
package power around 4.4w - speed around 1800mhz, C0% around 14.5%, 4:30.80
4.4*271=1192 - we are getting really inefficient here considering now even the CPU package power itself is less efficient.

The sweet spot in speed for the tiger lake seems to be around 3000mhz. Both lower or higher the efficiency drops. Now the lg gram cooling on the i7 really is bad - because for all core power the speed will drop below those 3000mhz, even if only a little after some time. On the i5 this will only happen when not using the performance cooling mode.

And this also explains why on all core turbo the i7 didn't doo as bad. Yes 5-10% slower. And 1w more power draw (that is only about 4% more power). It simply runs in less efficient speed range because it has to drag along the Cache and added execution units of the GPU. If the cooling was better - say 10w more cooling then the i7 would get much closer. If the cooling is soo good that neither processor throttles - the i7 will pull ahead. However in the latter case, get an i9 or a processor with more cores. The i7 U is the wrong choice.

I am pretty sure, EPP values are relative to max speed. So if you want the i7 at the same speed as the i5, you need higher EPP values. EPP 170 on the i5 is likely equal to 185 on the i7 or so.. So the i7 has a higher EPP value sweet spot than the i5. I do not remember the 2core max turbo for the i7. The i5 has the same 4200mhz as single core turbo - and that is more than the LG gram can cool so it will throttle. Here the i7 disadvantage would be lowest - as the throttling is soo little, that it increases efficiency as it is not dropping to below 3500mhz.

Oh and another thing - more threads = more efficiency. I just ran Cinebench R20 at 4 threads. It gave me 1513 points - vs 1920 at 8 threads. C0% was around 51.5 percent and max consumption around 30w. So it took longer until it throttled, but it still throttled. It did manage to keep running around 3350mhz vs 2900. If the cooling could get around 30w instead of 22w all core turbo - the CPU would run more efficient on all core load. It is really clear - to catch up performance vs AMD tiger lake U is actually optimised for around 28w...


Cinebench R20 - 2 threads at EPP 170 = around 3480-3580mhz. = 15w = 847 points.
2 threads at EPP 80 = around 4100 mhz = 22w - however soon throttling to 19w and 3800 mhz or so. 911 points. Also clearly much less efficient. If it would not throttle it would score a bit better, but be even less efficient.


All of the above at 25 degrees room temperature. At 20 degrees scores would be better of course.


But yeah of course at real idle - meaning 75% in C10 the difference in power draw between i5 and i7 is too small to measure. Now C8 is about 1w more vs C10 for 75% idle on the I5. Already at light load the CPU is spending kinda all in C7 or C8 and not C10. The difference between C8 and C10 is that the L3 cache is switched off. So switching off 6MB of cache gives you 1w advantage - that is the same as not having those 6MB. So just the L3 cache not being switched off 4MB additional is about 0.66w higher consumption. Then comes the graphic card and the higher speeds. For battery life the conclusion is dead clear - get the i5. If you do not care about battery it is a difficult question on the LG Gram. Because this additional single core speed is not helping you much, even more as it is only about 300mhz because of throttling. Then however you carry the additonal 0.66w around all time - shaving off your speeds - and worse making the PCU run less efficient if you load 4 threads or more (or 5 threads or more in performance mode). The 16 execution units will also carry some excess wattage..
So if you want the fastest notebook for productivity/office work and do not care about battery life - that is the only workload where the i7 makes sense. It will be up to 10% faster. (productivity work does not need GPU much - because GPU is more like 15% faster). Games will run faster on the i5 as they are multi core load.

And this also means - if you can improve the thermal solution of the Gram - it will run longer on battery! This will be negligible on light load (only the fan spinning less if you manage to get more heat to the fan without the fan spinning faster) - but quite noticeable on medium to heavy load.

However even for office work the 1145G7 would likely nearly match the i7. So the i5 1145G7 which is not available on LG Gram would be the perfect processor for office productivity on AC power, while you can just throttle it down to same efficiency as the 1135G7 for battery use.

The i3-1125G4 will be kinda the best for battery life. It's speed are so low that it rarely reaches the inefficient top speeds - and the much smaller graphic card will save some more. The graphic card should still be good enough for anything that is not gaming or needs GPU a lot. For videos it will be plenty fast. However intel prices the i3-1125G4 just a tiny bit below the i5 - so I do not think we will see this CPU out in the wild at all.
For real improvement we will need to wait for Alder Lake. That CPU will be the first Intel CPU since years to really drop down power consumption. In the last years it was much more the components besides the CPU that helped increase battery life, but not the CPU (with Ice Lake being the worst).

Just for an perspective. Running Cinebench R20 in single thread mode the i5 will need about 12w of package power. The i7 running at 4500mhz instead of 4200 will however need 18W. A huge huge difference in power draw for being about 5% faster. I checked that with batterinfoview and the package power correlates very well to the overall system power draw. I am pretty sure lmiting the i7 to 4200mhz or so with EPP value would bring down the consumption to maybe 13w. Any frequency boost over 3500-3600mhz is achieved by extremely high power use. And if the frequency while thermal or PL1 throttling falls below 2900mhz it will become much less efficient too. 
For the i5 and i7 to run at optimal efficiency under high multi core load it needs to be able to cool around 28w for the i5, 30w for the i7. If your notebook cannot cool that, get the i5. If battery life is important always get the i5 (or maybe even the i3-1125g4 which is so limited that it's max speed is kinda exactly at the most efficient speed and less execution units for the IGP should help gain some more efficiency over i5. The dual core i3 will be bad however for any higher workloads. The i3-1125g4 is a quad core / 8 threads however. Well and only marginally cheaper than the i5). It is kinda clear tiger lake is optimised as a 28w platform - not a 15w platform. At 28w multicore it is at its most efficient state. That correlates to 7w single core.


----------



## Artorias38 (May 16, 2021)

in this video  NEW Gaming Laptops from Asus! - M16 + S17 - YouTube they are saying that the new 11th gen can be undervolted again... Thats pretty interesting  
Perhabs we can get it also back for the U series again.


----------



## unclewebb (May 16, 2021)

Artorias38 said:


> Perhabs we can get it also back for the U series


Undervolting was deliberately disabled on the U and G7 series.

It might be available for some of the H or HK series but highly unlikely it will ever be available for the U or G7 series.


----------



## extremecarver (May 16, 2021)

Actually could a notebook producer/ bios just decide to undervolt by giving wrong voltage to Intel? I kinda guess no problems. Manufacturers could gain a huge competitive advantage by testing for a very conservative undervolt for their notebooks. Tiger lake is clearly using way high voltages at higher speeds. I don't know another reason why the power ramp up can be so crazy. Must be that Intel had some problems early on transitioning to 10mm...


----------



## Artorias38 (Sep 15, 2021)

docarter said:


> Sorry for the late reply, he said "it’s in relation to how the Dell Power Manager/BIOS and the Intel Dynamic Platform Framework Driver work together."
> 
> I'm expecting a bios to test within the month and a public release shortly afterward if there are no issues.


something new? The PL 2 are still annoying


----------



## unclewebb (Sep 15, 2021)

Artorias38 said:


> The PL 2 are still annoying


Have you tried using the new MMIO Lock option in ThrottleStop? 
This works on the 11th Gen CPUs and might help with some types of throttling.


----------



## Mike2021 (Sep 15, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Have you tried using the new MMIO Lock option in ThrottleStop?
> This works on the 11th Gen CPUs and might help with some types of throttling.
> 
> View attachment 217064


Just tested and it works! Disables PL1 PL2


----------



## emirgm (Sep 23, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Have you tried using the new MMIO Lock option in ThrottleStop?
> This works on the 11th Gen CPUs and might help with some types of throttling.
> 
> View attachment 217064


Thanks a lot! On the laptop I bought 2 weeks ago, I was experiencing throttling only when I entered the game. Although there was no heating or anything, the frequency and voltage dropped completely when the processor was under load. I stress tested the CPU and GPU separately and I didn't get any errors, but whenever the two worked together, the frequency and voltage dropped completely.

I tried what you wrote today while researching and it really worked. What exactly does the application do and fix when we tick this option?

and I'm using i5-1135g7 and MX450


----------



## unclewebb (Sep 24, 2021)

emirgm said:


> What exactly does the application do


That is a secret.   

The MMIO Lock box disables and locks the secondary turbo power limits. This allows the primary power limits to be in charge of your CPU. After you check that box, instead of two different power limits fighting over control of your CPU, now there is only one set of turbo power limits. I like to keep things simple. No fighting.


----------



## Michael19264 (Sep 24, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> That is a secret.
> 
> The MMIO Lock box disables and locks the secondary turbo power limits. This allows the primary power limits to be in charge of your CPU. After you check that box, instead of two different power limits fighting over control of your CPU, now there is only one set of turbo power limits. I like to keep things simple. No fighting.


You are an absolute legend


----------



## extremecarver (Sep 25, 2021)

It definitely works perfectly for setting your own PL1/PL2 now - no more MMIO interfering with 9.4.2 beta...


----------



## Primo (Sep 27, 2021)

thealgo said:


> The Dell power manager is no good.  It will determine dynamically the PL1 and will not be consistant.   I prefer the method of disabling this automation entirely and being able to have static pl1 without it changing.   (I do set ultra performance in the bios however, as i believe that also sets fan curvers more aggressively, which helps if i run it at higher wattage)


Hi Algo, i am super confused. I used to have the exact same issues with my Dell 7306 2in1 - was so annoyed that I haven't turned it on in a couple of months. I just stumbled across this topic reading up on undervolting the G7 / U intel 11th gen. I decided to try your steps reg DPTF and the Discord .bat - however, I could not find any trace of Intel's DPTF or the discussed PL limits! My 7306 runs with PLs unlocked and locking MMIO completely freed me of power throttling. Has Dell pushed an update?? Am I missing something? I now plan to repaste and add thermal paste like you did. Hoping that that will reduce thermal throttling as well. ANother question: what thickness thermal pads did you use? Thanks.


----------



## thealgo (Oct 9, 2021)

Primo said:


> Hi Algo, i am super confused. I used to have the exact same issues with my Dell 7306 2in1 - was so annoyed that I haven't turned it on in a couple of months. I just stumbled across this topic reading up on undervolting the G7 / U intel 11th gen. I decided to try your steps reg DPTF and the Discord .bat - however, I could not find any trace of Intel's DPTF or the discussed PL limits! My 7306 runs with PLs unlocked and locking MMIO completely freed me of power throttling. Has Dell pushed an update?? Am I missing something? I now plan to repaste and add thermal paste like you did. Hoping that that will reduce thermal throttling as well. ANother question: what thickness thermal pads did you use? Thanks.


This was what i did before the MMIO lock.   Thankfully now, there is no need to worry about this.   Can just use the MMIO lock.   This works on the 7306 only when connected to power though.  (On battery it will eventually go to 15w which is due ot the Embedded controller i guess)

I repasted the device and used 1mm thick thermal pads on the heatpipes.   With this modification, i roughly can sustain 30w or so indefinately at 95-98c temps...  (on the high side) but 20w is comfortable


----------



## unclewebb (Oct 9, 2021)

thealgo said:


> Embedded controller


Some power limit throttling while running on battery power is usually a good thing. It helps keep the battery safe and probably extends its life span too. You are correct that it is likely an embedded controller that enforces this lower power limit while running on battery power. At least the Lock MMIO option allows you to run your CPU at its full capability when plugged in. I wish more 11th Gen G7 or G5 series owners knew about this useful feature.


----------



## madmax7766 (Dec 18, 2021)

hi,
what is safest setting for i5 11260h?


----------



## Primo (Jan 24, 2022)

Hey guys, any news on undervolting 11th gen Intel processors?


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 24, 2022)

Primo said:


> undervolting 11th gen Intel processors?


You can undervolt 11th Gen H and K series processors. Unfortunately, Intel disabled or removed this useful feature from the G7 series.


----------



## Primo (Jan 24, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> You can undervolt 11th Gen H and K series processors. Unfortunately, Intel disabled or removed this useful feature from the G7 series.


Thanks a lot. That's too bad... Hoping for someone to come around the corner with a BIOS workaround or sth similar...


----------



## Artorias38 (Feb 28, 2022)

Hey I want to unlock this MMIO setting while I am on battery. So is there a possibility to change the TPL settings with the profiles? 
Everytime I try it, there is a small window that says its coming soon. 
Any news about that? 

I tried this unlock feature and its really a game changer. Nice work! Really!


----------



## unclewebb (Feb 28, 2022)

Artorias38 said:


> its really a game changer


I knew some users would find the Lock MMIO feature to be very useful. 



Artorias38 said:


> coming soon


I promised the wife that I would find a new job before doing any more work on ThrottleStop. No new job so no new ThrottleStop features. At my age, I will probably be dead before this feature is finished.


----------



## (00) (Mar 1, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> At my age, I will probably be dead before this feature is finished.



Hmmm,,, in that case, please do not die until 2222 at least. Intel should be able to get something good together by then??? Something fast, that doesn't need a nuclear reactor to power it, would be nice.

m(_ _)m Sensei 先生


----------



## nguyen (Mar 2, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> I knew some users would find the Lock MMIO feature to be very useful.
> 
> 
> I promised the wife that I would find a new job before doing any more work on ThrottleStop. No new job so no new ThrottleStop features. At my age, I will probably be dead before this feature is finished.



Why aren't you working for Intel already? your software improves their laptop CPU performance tremendously!!


----------



## Cydras (Mar 7, 2022)

Hi,
i have now a Dell Latitude 7420 with an i7 1185G7.
When I bought it, I thought that the CPU had a 28W TDP limit, since it is specified everywhere with a 3GHz base clock. But in reality the base clock is 1.8GHz and the CPU is limited on 15W TDP.

PL2 is stock set on 60W, when the CPU is using this for 2 secs, it reaches 100°C and it throttles immediately to 15W and max 2,2GHz boost. Because of this i limited PL2 and PL1 to 28W.
I just wanted to know if I did everything correctly or if you have any suggestions for improvement. With these settings, the CPU always boosts to 3.1-3.2GHz all-core and stays on 82-88°C all the time.
SpeedStep is disabled in BIOS and ThrottleStop. The CPU all-core clock was measured with CineBench R20.


----------



## unclewebb (Mar 7, 2022)

Cydras said:


> it is specified everywhere with a 3GHz base clock


That is partly true.









						Product Specifications
					

quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.




					ark.intel.com
				




3.00 GHz is the TDP-up base frequency. For the 11th Gen G7 series, Intel no longer documents the true base frequency. If we took some time, I could get you to do some tests to try and prove that this is true but there is not much point. Intel CPUs spend most of their time using full turbo boost so they usually run well beyond their base frequency. These low power CPUs can also be forced to power limit throttle to speeds well below their base frequency. The base frequency is just a number that most Intel CPUs rarely operate at.  



Cydras said:


> SpeedStep is disabled in BIOS and ThrottleStop.


Most modern computers no longer use SpeedStep technology. Your computer uses Speed Shift Technology (SST) so whether SpeedStep is enabled or disabled makes no difference. SpeedStep is obsolete. 



Cydras said:


> PL2 is stock set on 60W


This is mostly marketing. Consumers love seeing a big powerful number even if the cooling system is under designed and cannot possibly run at that power level for any meaningful length of time. 



Cydras said:


> CPU had a 28W TDP limit


Another play on numbers. The 1185G7 has a suggested 28W TDP-up power limit. The regular TDP limit is no longer documented. Typically these are 15W processors but there is no documentation to confirm or deny that. With similar 10th Gen CPUs, Intel would document TDP-up, TDP, and TDP-down. Now they only document the -up and the -down TDP values and have decided to leave out the TDP number in the middle. This gives them more room to cover their butt. As long as the CPU is operating somewhere within this new TDP range then all is good. I am sure someone discovered that a CPU with a 28W rating will sell more computers compared to the same CPU if it only has a 15W rating. 



Cydras said:


> if I did everything correctly


Your settings look good. ThrottleStop is a useful tool so you can fine tune your CPU performance based on how much cooling you have available. The settings you are using seem to be a good compromise. If you want you could try bumping the PL2 power limit up from 28W to maybe 35W and then drop the turbo time limit to about 8 seconds or a little less. This might improve full load performance. If you are happy with 28W and 28W then leave it as is. The best power limits for you really depend on what you mostly do with your laptop. Some people prefer lower power limits because it helps reduce heat.


----------



## Cydras (Mar 8, 2022)

Thank you very much for your answer 



unclewebb said:


> That is partly true.


I just looked at the specs on the Dell site, it says 3GHz to 4.8GHz Boost everywhere, so I assumed 3GHz Base Clock. 
What I find very strange is that the CPU has @ 3GHz in the name. Look at my screenshot from Task Manager.
But the cooling system would definitely be too small for 3 GHz base clock  



unclewebb said:


> Most modern computers no longer use SpeedStep technology. Your computer uses Speed Shift Technology (SST) so whether SpeedStep is enabled or disabled makes no difference. SpeedStep is obsolete.


Yes SpeedStep is normally obsolete. But very stange is, SpeedStep and SpeedShift were both turned on together in BIOS.
After i have disabled SpeedStep, the CPU has boosted only max. to the base frequency of 1,8GHz.
Only when i open ThrottleStop, TurboBoost ist working correctly with only SpeedShift enabled.



unclewebb said:


> Your settings look good. ThrottleStop is a useful tool so you can fine tune your CPU performance based on how much cooling you have available. The settings you are using seem to be a good compromise. If you want you could try bumping the PL2 power limit up from 28W to maybe 35W and then drop the turbo time limit to about 8 seconds or a little less. This might improve full load performance. If you are happy with 28W and 28W then leave it as is. The best power limits for you really depend on what you mostly do with your laptop. Some people prefer lower power limits because it helps reduce heat.


Thank you, i have tried PL2 35W and PL1 28W and it is better 
Because of only 8 secs PL2 the temperatures rise only about 4°C


----------



## unclewebb (Mar 8, 2022)

The G7 series CPUs are kind of like having 3 different CPUs in the same package. There are 3 different TDP levels; TDP-up, TDP, and TDP-down. Each TDP level has a different base frequency associated with it. The TDP level is programmable so manufacturers can easily decide in the BIOS how powerful of a CPU they want. An 1185G7 in your laptop might perform vastly different compared to the exact same CPU installed in a different laptop based on what TDP level and what power limits a laptop manufacturer has chosen.

The TDP level can also be controlled by the computer during runtime. When plugged in you might automatically get TDP-up mode and when you switch to battery power, the CPU might change to TDP-down mode or regular TDP mode. It takes some testing to try and determine what TDP modes a manufacturer has decided to use. Some keep things simple and just leave the CPU in regular TDP mode all of the time.





In your TPL screenshot, ThrottleStop shows that your CPU is currently in TDP Level 2.

Regular TDP = level 0
TDP-down = level 1
TDP-up = level 2

If you want to play with this setting, check the TDP Level box, change the value on the right hand side to 0, 1, or 2 and press Apply. You should see the TDP level value on the left hand side change. Changing the TDP level changes the rated TDP and this also changes the base frequency.

I thought this would be a useful feature to add to ThrottleStop but the problem is that the TDP level can also be changed internally by the EC. That means if you use ThrottleStop to request TDP level 2 and Dell sees that you are running on battery power, the TDP level might still change to TDP level 1, TDP-down mode. There is no way to override the internal TDP level settings. On some computers, this useful looking TDP level control feature in ThrottleStop might not be very useful at all. It will likely only be useful on laptops that do not also use the secondary TDP level setting. 

To test what TDP level you are really in, run a simple stress test like the TS Bench and set it to 4 threads so it does not overload your cooling. Check the Disable Turbo box on the main screen. Your CPU should now be running at its true base frequency. This base frequency number typically varies depending on what TDP level you are in. You can change TDP levels while the TS Bench test is running and you should see the base frequency change. No idea if the Task Manager will report this correctly.

I believe that the MSR PL1 and PL2 power limits you have entered into ThrottleStop can override the default TDP values that are associated with each TDP level. That is why monitoring for base frequency by loading the CPU and disabling Turbo Boost is a more fool proof way to determine what TDP level the CPU is really in.

Everything you ever wanted to know about TDP-level.  



Cydras said:


> SpeedStep and Speed Shift were both turned on together in BIOS


I believe this is best. I think the older SpeedStep has control of the processor up until Speed Shift is enabled. That might not happen until late in the boot process. It is possible that if SpeedStep is not enabled then Speed Shift might get set to different values compared to if SpeedStep is originally enabled.

Some bios options are unpredictable. You might enable or disable something in the bios but there is no guarantee that the CPU will be setup to what you requested in the bios when you actually get into Windows. A lot of users swear that they know SpeedStep is disabled because they disabled it in the bios. When you get into Windows and check the SpeedStep register in the CPU, they might find that SpeedStep is enabled regardless of what they selected in the bios. A lot of Asus desktop boards have this auto SpeedStep "feature".  



Cydras said:


> Because of only 8 secs PL2 the temperatures rise only about 4°C


I always recommend setting PL1, PL2 and the turbo time limit to what your cooling system can handle. If the cooling system can only dissipate 60W for a couple of seconds then it makes no sense to set the turbo time limit to the default 28 seconds. One should either lower the turbo time limit or they should lower the PL2 power limit or perhaps a little bit of both. It looks like you have learned how to get the performance - heat balance that is right for you and your laptop.

Edit - My desktop 10850K has a TDP-down mode but it does not have a TDP-up mode. In down mode the base frequency drops from 3600 MHz to 3300 MHz. Not sure if any OEMs ever used this feature on their desktop computers.


----------



## Artorias38 (Mar 27, 2022)

Hey, is there a way to lower the boost clocks? hp spectre 14 i7 1165g7 
It was possible with another laptop i had before.


----------



## unclewebb (Mar 27, 2022)

Try checking the Speed Shift box in the TPL window and reduce the Speed Shift Max value to lower the maximum CPU speed.


----------



## Artorias38 (Mar 31, 2022)

I tried, but it is not affecting the value.. I set it to 128 but the value stays at 84 in the FIVR view.


----------



## unclewebb (Mar 31, 2022)

Did you lower the Speed Shift Max value in the TPL window like I suggested?





Do not check the Speed Shift EPP box on the main screen.


----------



## Artorias38 (Mar 31, 2022)

No I didnt... 
but now I did and the value is set to 38 max but the CPU goes still to 4ghz. Is it normal?


----------



## snk4ever (Apr 29, 2022)

Just wanted to leave a thank you message here.
I'm using a Dell Latitude 7420 with i7 1185G7. I was suffering from very unstable framerate in Rocket League and when compressing a large set of files with 7z, a clock of around 2.2GHz.

Using ThrottleStop with MMIO lock on, PL1 to 28 instead and PL2 to 28. I forgot the stock values already but I think one was at 60 and the over at 35. I get around 3.5 GHz with 7z instead of around 2.2GHz and a stable framerate in Rocket League. It's like I have another computer !


----------



## AlkalineKnight (Jun 15, 2022)

snk4ever said:


> Just wanted to leave a thank you message here.
> I'm using a Dell Latitude 7420 with i7 1185G7. I was suffering from very unstable framerate in Rocket League and when compressing a large set of files with 7z, a clock of around 2.2GHz.
> 
> Using ThrottleStop with MMIO lock on, PL1 to 28 instead and PL2 to 28. I forgot the stock values already but I think one was at 60 and the over at 35. I get around 3.5 GHz with 7z instead of around 2.2GHz and a stable framerate in Rocket League. It's like I have another computer !


Wanted to say a me too on this one. 

I went through this forum when I first got my Dell 5420. The performance sucked for the CPU when it came to gaming on my eGPU, especiallycompared to my previous 8th Gen. 

Window 11 then made it worse, but the ThrottleStop Beta with MMIO is all I've been looking for. I've managed to increase my TDP to sit at around 36w (PL1 37w/ PL2 40w) using a custom made laptop cooler keeping them Temps hot but level. Clock speeds during Cinebench are 3.6Ghz and 4Ghz when gaming.

Thank you so much.


----------



## Artorias38 (Sep 4, 2022)

AlkalineKnight said:


> Wanted to say a me too on this one.
> 
> I went through this forum when I first got my Dell 5420. The performance sucked for the CPU when it came to gaming on my eGPU, especiallycompared to my previous 8th Gen.
> 
> ...


Hey, what kind of costum cooler are you using?


----------



## AlkalineKnight (Sep 9, 2022)

Artorias38 said:


> Hey, what kind of costum cooler are you using?


Hi Artorias38,

In short I am still continuing to experiment. However all tests are based around a fan shelf I built using 2 x Arctic F14 TC's The idea is that the temperature sensors are inserted into the heatsink fins of the laptop. So that they are quiet under normal load, then ramp up when the fins warm up.

My plight continues as proof of concept initial experiment prevented the CPU from going above 85'C. So it never thermal throttled. However PL2 eventually kicks in preventing my laptop going above 42W allowing for a steady 3.8Ghz across all cores.

Presently I continue to experiment with different heat sinks to prevent the Arctic F14's from even needing to spin up.


----------

