# Input lag is killing me



## Lkzz (Apr 8, 2021)

Hey everyone! I've been trying to figure out what's causing input lag issues on my PC. I'm a casual player, but this is beginning to frustrate me. All this problem started some weeks after I built my new PC and I not so sure what's causing the problem. But basically I changed the memorys, the motherboard, the SSD, the graphics card, the video card and the case. Expect for the case and the graphics card, all of this components I bought from a friend that used it for sometime , but he didn't have this problem. And like I said it started after a month or so I built the new PC. Also I was using a Samsung Syncmaster 932bew (if I'm not mistaken) and it has a time responde of 2ms, while this one that I'm using now, a Samsung Syncmaster TA550 has a time response of 5ms, I don't know if this can cause the problem, but I think its important to inform. Also the cooler that I'm using, Corsair H105, its a little bit old and making a little noise so I thinking about buying a new one, but once again, I don't think that the problem is it and even the temperatura, which is always less than 140* °*F or 60* °*C. I feel this input lag more on the mouse, which is a Hyperx Pulsefire Core btw.

I will put the specs of the two computers (Old and new):

*"Old" Computer*
Case: CM 690
OS: Windows 10
Motherboard: Asus Sabertooth Z97 Mark 1
CPU: Intel I7-4790k
CPU FAN: Corsair H105
MEMORY: 16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR3 (2x8gb) 2133mhz
HDD: Samsung 840EVO 500GB + HD 1TB
GPU: Intel Core I7 4790k
PSU: Corsair RM850w
MONITOR: Samsung TA550 Syncmaster (Television)


*"New" Computer*
Case: Macube 310
OS: Windows 10
Motherboard: Asus Maximus X 
CPU: Intel I7-9700Kf
CPU FAN: Corsair H105 (Thinking about replacing it for a Masterliquid 360l)
MEMORY: 16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 (4x4) 3000mhz (Not so sure about the frequency, need to confirm that, but I don't think thats important rn)
HDD: SSD WD 500gb M2
GPU: NVIDIA GTX 1080 Ti
PSU: Corsair RM850w
MONITOR: Samsung TA550 Syncmaster (Television)

Things I've tried:
- Reinstalled windows about 2 times
- Tried windows 10 & 8.1
- As a precaution to make sure it wasn't network related lag I changed my ISP to a more stable ISP. It was more to prove to people that the problem isn't internet related as that seems to be the easy 'cop out' for people to suggest. So yes it is input lag and not regular internet lag.
- Installed different GPU Drivers for my 1080 ti
- Updated the ethernet driver, updated the windows to the last version and also the GPU drivers to the lastest version.
- Put my windows on performance mode.
- There's a lot more that I've done but these are the ones that came to mind.

Has anyone had issues similar to this? To be honest I'm debating on purchasing a new mouse, like a G Pro Wireless, buying a new watercooler, and maybe a 144hz monitor to see if that solves the problem, but I'm trying to figure out what's going on before I completely write-off both of these options. Also I feel this input lag even harder when I streaming using the Streamelements OBS, before I was using the Streamlabs, but a friend recommended me to use the streamelements, and it seems like it reduced a lot, but there's still a little input lag that makes really hard to play. If you guys have any suggestion or need any additional information, please let me know, thank you all!


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## Toothless (Apr 8, 2021)

So, according to your specs, you were using a 4790k as a gpu? Are you sure?


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## mouacyk (Apr 8, 2021)

Toothless said:


> So, according to your specs, you were using a 4790k as a gpu? Are you sure?


Likely GTX 970 *combobulated.*

Try using DPC Latency Monitor to diagnose what's causing the lag.  That should narrow it down to service, driver, or even process. Ooh, I see op is in Brazil... stay safe broh.


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## Lkzz (Apr 8, 2021)

Toothless said:


> So, according to your specs, you were using a 4790k as a gpu? Are you sure?


Yes, I'm pretty sure I was using the I7 4790k as CPU and the GTX 1080 as my GPU. Why?



mouacyk said:


> Likely GTX 970 *combobulated.*
> 
> Try using DPC Latency Monitor to diagnose what's causing the lag.  That should narrow it down to service, driver, or even process. Ooh, I see op is in Brazil... stay safe broh.


Alright man, do you have the link to download it? Thanks man, things are really hard here. Actually my father has covid, I really hope he gets better soon...


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## Kissamies (Apr 8, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Yes, I'm pretty sure I was using the I7 4790k as CPU and the GTX 1080 as my GPU. Why?
> 
> 
> Alright man, do you have the link to download it? Thanks man, things are really hard here. Actually my father has covid, I really hope he gets better soon...


Because you've listed 6700K as the older computer's CPU.


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## Lkzz (Apr 8, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> Because you've listed 6700K as the older computer's CPU.


Oh my bad, I must've typed it wrong, now is correct. But just for the record, I was using a I7 4790k


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## mouacyk (Apr 8, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Yes, I'm pretty sure I was using the I7 4790k as CPU and the GTX 1080 as my GPU. Why?
> 
> 
> Alright man, do you have the link to download it? Thanks man, things are really hard here. Actually my father has covid, I really hope he gets better soon...


This is the one you want, from official site: Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks


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## Lkzz (Apr 8, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> This is the one you want, from official site: Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks


Thanks a ton man, I will try that later. But just to be sure, does it show like if the problem is with the memory or something like that?


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## mouacyk (Apr 8, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Thanks a ton man, I will try that later. But just to be sure, does it show like if the problem is with the memory or something like that?


If it's related to RAM, you will see very high count for page faults.  What could cause this? Bad process(es) that leak(s) all your memory, so it's constantly swapped.  I don't think slow or memory errors cause page faults.  

I think the likely culprit is that when you swapped the motherboard, you didn't install the official chipset drivers for the new motherboard.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Apr 8, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> MONITOR: Samsung TA550 Syncmaster (Television)


Don't forget to go into the television settings and enable what is known as "game mode".


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## Lkzz (Apr 8, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> If it's related to RAM, you will see very high count for page faults.  What could cause this? Bad process(es) that leak(s) all your memory, so it's constantly swapped.  I don't think slow or memory errors cause page faults.
> 
> I think the likely culprit is that when you swapped the motherboard, you didn't install the official chipset drivers for the new motherboard.


Yeah that makes sense, so right after I finish, if I send the results here could you help me detect what's wrong? And how can I be sure if I installed the official chipset for my motherboard?



RJARRRPCGP said:


> Don't forget to go into the television settings and enable what is known as "game mode".


I did that and I didn't see any difference, I put the information about the monitor, cause somehow it might important, but I really doubt that the monitor is causing this problems. Anyway, later I planning on buying a 144hz monitor, and thanks for the tip!


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## GerKNG (Apr 8, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> MONITOR: Samsung TA550 Syncmaster (Television)


you play on a decade old TV that has mediocre reviews and even back in 2012 reviewers complained about high input lag.

what do you expect?


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## Lkzz (Apr 8, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> you play on a decade old TV that has mediocre reviews and even back in 2012 reviewers complained about high input lag.
> 
> what do you expect?


Well I have to agree with you, but like I said, it doens't make sense. With the old PC I didnt't have this problem, unless somehow, this monitor got to "old" for my new config. I am afraid to spend tons of money on a new monitor and don't fix the problem. Because if is not something related to windows or config I will have to start looking for new equips.


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## Toothless (Apr 8, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Well I have to agree with you, but like I said, it doens't make sense. With the old PC I didnt't have this problem, unless somehow, this monitor got to "old" for my new config. I am afraid to spend tons of money on a new monitor and don't fix the problem. Because if is not something related to windows or config I will have to start looking for new equips.


If the monitor works, why change it? The only time a monitor really dies is if it actually dies.


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## Lkzz (Apr 8, 2021)

Toothless said:


> If the monitor works, why change it? The only time a monitor really dies is if it actually dies.


I don't know, I think that one day I will have to change it, but like I said before, I dont think that the monitor is the source of the problem, it can make it worse, but buying a new monitor might not solve the problem. Of course, if I have 100% sure that it's causing the problem, I will change it, but for now, I thinking more about some windows config, some of my equipments or even a BIOS config, who knows...


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## Toothless (Apr 8, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> I don't know, I think that one day I will have to change it, but like I said before, I dont think that the monitor is the source of the problem, it can make it worse, but buying a new monitor might not solve the problem. Of course, if I have 100% sure that it's causing the problem, I will change it, but for now, I thinking more about some windows config, some of my equipments or even a BIOS config, who knows...


So, have you tried using the old monitor at all on the new build?


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## Lkzz (Apr 8, 2021)

Toothless said:


> So, have you tried using the old monitor at all on the new build?


Yes, basically I am using the same monitor now as I used with the old PC. I used one for a while because it had a smaller time response, it has 2ms and this one that I'm using now has 5ms, I'm not sure but the problem started next when I got my monitor (Samsung TA550) back. I don't know if it is a coincidence or the problem is really the monitor, but I need to be 100% sure before buying a brand new monitor.



mouacyk said:


> If it's related to RAM, you will see very high count for page faults.  What could cause this? Bad process(es) that leak(s) all your memory, so it's constantly swapped.  I don't think slow or memory errors cause page faults.
> 
> I think the likely culprit is that when you swapped the motherboard, you didn't install the official chipset drivers for the new motherboard.





So as you can see I runned the test for like an hour I didn't show any problem. I runned while desktop, running CSGO and just searching random things on Google. By looking at it do you can tell if there's any problem?


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## abactuon (Apr 9, 2021)

Nvidia Control Panel Settings of V-Sync to adaptive.

"For PC connection, you must use the HDMI IN 1 (DVI) jack" , _no D_-_Sub_


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

abactuon said:


> Nvidia Control Panel Settings of V-Sync to adaptive.
> 
> "For PC connection, you must use the HDMI IN 1 (DVI) jack" , _no D_-_Sub_


I'm sorry, but I dont get it, what do I exactly need to do?


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## abactuon (Apr 9, 2021)

I have a laptop, for a desktop the picture may be different. Try adjusting the driver.



Some theory _https://www.techspot.com/article/2192-screen-tearing-fix-pc-gaming/

If possible test the monitor with another computer with a discrete graphics card.


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## crispysilicon (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Yes, basically I am using the same monitor now as I used with the old PC. I used one for a while because it had a smaller time response, it has 2ms and this one that I'm using now has 5ms, I'm not sure but the problem started next when I got my monitor (Samsung TA550) back. I don't know if it is a coincidence or the problem is really the monitor, but I need to be 100% sure before buying a brand new monitor.



It's the monitor. 5ms is ugly. Plug in a different screen and confirm.

Also, in NV control panel, look for low latency mode, can try that as well. Still think it's the monitor.


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## Toothless (Apr 9, 2021)

crispysilicon said:


> It's the monitor. 5ms is ugly. Plug in a different screen and confirm.
> 
> Also, in NV control panel, look for low latency mode, can try that as well. Still think it's the monitor.


5ms is the standard for the last like, 10 years. Pretty sure it's just some setting that got flicked or the TV is just really, really bad.


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## AsRock (Apr 9, 2021)

Toothless said:


> 5ms is the standard for the last like, 10 years. Pretty sure it's just some setting that got flicked or the TV is just really, really bad.



Depends how it means 5ms right ?, BTW,GTG or what they ever please to do these days.,


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## Mussels (Apr 9, 2021)

Oh man that TV is not gunna be any good for input latency - its a 10 year old TV not designed for gaming at all

remember that the ms ratings are total marketing BS as they measure something like grey to grey, when other colours  could crush or smear


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## delshay (Apr 9, 2021)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Don't forget to go into the television settings and enable what is known as "game mode".



In all my years I have never touch this because the type of games I play I don't think it will make any difference., but for the first time in the year 2021 I will take a closer look at this.


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## Mussels (Apr 9, 2021)

delshay said:


> In all my years I have never touch this because the type of games I play I don't think it will make any difference., but for the first time in the year 2021 I will take a closer look at this.


it absolutely makes a massive difference, we're talking upto 100ms -TV's are not made for interactive content, they'd buffer and delay content so they could process it and turn interlaced signals into progressive and so on

you 100% need to turn game mode on and all processing features off, on any TV used for any sort of gaming


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

abactuon said:


> I have a laptop, for a desktop the picture may be different. Try adjusting the driver.View attachment 195878
> 
> Some theory _https://www.techspot.com/article/2192-screen-tearing-fix-pc-gaming/
> 
> If possible test the monitor with another computer with a discrete graphics card.


 Oh yes I already tried that, but thanks!



crispysilicon said:


> It's the monitor. 5ms is ugly. Plug in a different screen and confirm.
> 
> Also, in NV control panel, look for low latency mode, can try that as well. Still think it's the monitor.


The problem is that I dont have another screen to confirm, if I had 100% sure that the problem is the monitor, trust me, I would have already bought



AsRock said:


> Depends how it means 5ms right ?, BTW,GTG or what they ever please to do these days.,


Yeah that makes sense



Mussels said:


> it absolutely makes a massive difference, we're talking upto 100ms -TV's are not made for interactive content, they'd buffer and delay content so they could process it and turn interlaced signals into progressive and so on
> 
> you 100% need to turn game mode on and all processing features off, on any TV used for any sort of gaming


Man, right after I started playing, I'm 80% sure that one of the first things that I did was activating the "Game mode"



Toothless said:


> 5ms is the standard for the last like, 10 years. Pretty sure it's just some setting that got flicked or the TV is just really, really bad.


Is it possible that I somehow got addicted to the another monitor with 2ms and then when I got back to the 5ms I felt this "input lag"? I really want to buy a new monitor, but first I need to be sure that the monitor is causing the problem, because like I said, I will have to buy a new watercooler, cause mine it's a little bit old and it's making some noises. So I'm afraid I spend tons of money on a new monitor, and that doens´t fix my problem.


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## Mussels (Apr 9, 2021)

the whole 2ms 5ms thing is total bullshit - ignore that. they're likely not even comparing the same thing on the displays.

Go find another display, it's going to give you a better experience no matter what. Old TV's were not made for low latency.


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Mussels said:


> the whole 2ms 5ms thing is total bullshit - ignore that. they're likely not even comparing the same thing on the displays.
> 
> Go find another display, it's going to give you a better experience no matter what. Old TV's were not made for low latency.


Thanks man, but are you sure this is going to solve my problem? I would love if I could run some tests on another monitor, but due to this pandemic, covid and blablabla is really hard to go to some friends house and test. Because I will have to buy another watercooler, that's for sure, and having to spend more money on another monitor is really hard, especially right now, but if it's going to solve my problem I can try, but I want to be sure that's the only solution. And I have to admit, it's kinda funny that this whole thing started after I changed my monitors, but if you're saying that this response time difference is total bullshit I believe.


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## Toothless (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Thanks man, but are you sure this is going to solve my problem? I would love if I could run some tests on another monitor, but due to this pandemic, covid and blablabla is really hard to go to some friends house and test. Because I will have to buy another watercooler, that's for sure, and having to spend more money on another monitor is really hard, especially right now, but if it's going to solve my problem I can try, but I want to be sure that's the only solution. And I have to admit, it's kinda funny that this whole thing started after I changed my monitors, but if you're saying that this response time difference is total bullshit I believe.


Well you're gonna want a new monitor anyway so if it doesn't fix this problem, it'll fix a different one.


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Well you're gonna want a new monitor anyway so if it doesn't fix this problem, it'll fix a different one.


Yeah I'm looking for other monitor, but what other problem will it fix?


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## Toothless (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Yeah I'm looking for other monitor, but what other problem will it fix?


The entire problem of using a tv for games.


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Toothless said:


> The entire problem of using a tv for games.


Well you're right about that, I'm looking for some monitors that I can buy, but it's going to be really hard if that doens't fix my problem. Also I need to buy a new watercooler...


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## Toothless (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Well you're right about that, I'm looking for some monitors that I can buy, but it's going to be really hard if that doens't fix my problem. Also I need to buy a new watercooler...


Your cooler is fine. The pump works, and your chip isn't overheating or throttling.


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Your cooler is fine. The pump works, and your chip isn't overheating or throttling.


But I'm a little worried because the pump is making a little noise, and also this watercooler is pretty old, almost 9 years.


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## Toothless (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> But I'm a little worried because the pump is making a little noise, and also this watercooler is pretty old, almost 9 years.


Cooler easily wouldn't fix your issue, although you could save money by going air cooling and out that savings to a monitor. Your new chip doesn't pull too bad in terms of power so something like a NH-D15 or Mugen 5 should keep it under control. As for monitors stay away from AOC.


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Cooler easily wouldn't fix your issue, although you could save money by going air cooling and out that savings to a monitor. Your new chip doesn't pull too bad in terms of power so something like a NH-D15 or Mugen 5 should keep it under control. As for monitors stay away from AOC.


What do you suggest for a new monitor? And whats the problem with AOC?


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## Airisom (Apr 9, 2021)

Looks like we have a bit of confusion going on here. Pixel response times aren't signal input times. It may take 5ms for a pixel to go from grey to white and back to grey, but it could take 32ms for you to see your mouse input on the screen. That type of latency can vary dramatically depending on the model.


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Cooler easily wouldn't fix your issue, although you could save money by going air cooling and out that savings to a monitor. Your new chip doesn't pull too bad in terms of power so something like a NH-D15 or Mugen 5 should keep it under control. As for monitors stay away from AOC.


Well compairing the price between the NH-D15 and the watercooler I was thiking about playing, the watercooler is cheaper. But I will see if I really need to buy a new watercooler rn


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## Toothless (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> What do you suggest for a new monitor? And whats the problem with AOC?


Every AOC I've had and seen has been a faded, dead pixel mess. I made the mistake of buying three and two had dead pixels. Tigerdirect wasn't gonna help me so I'm stuck with them still.

I'm running an LG ultra wide and it's been fantastic with my card. Look around to see what people are using and research for what features you want.


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

airisom said:


> Looks like we have a bit of confusion going on here. Pixel response times aren't signal input times. It may take 5ms for a pixel to go from grey to white and back to grey, but it could take 32ms for you to see your mouse input on the screen. That type of latency can vary dramatically depending on the model.


Alright, so basically after all the information I gave at the first, a lot of people are saying that the problem is the monitor. I use a Samsung TA550 27'' Syncmaster w/ 5ms and they're saying that this is really old and slow for games, and probably buying a new monitor would solve my ''input lag'' problem



Toothless said:


> Every AOC I've had and seen has been a faded, dead pixel mess. I made the mistake of buying three and two had dead pixels. Tigerdirect wasn't gonna help me so I'm stuck with them still.
> 
> I'm running an LG ultra wide and it's been fantastic with my card. Look around to see what people are using and research for what features you want.


I will do a research, but I'm not very interested in a Ultrawide monitor, I will search for some Samsung or Asus monitors, or maybe a LG, but not ultrawide. I was thiking of buying the ASUS VG249Q


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## Toothless (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Alright, so basically after all the information I gave at the first, a lot of people are saying that the problem is the monitor. I use a Samsung TA550 27'' Syncmaster w/ 5ms and they're saying that this is really old and slow for games, and probably buying a new monitor would solve my ''input lag'' problem


I'm not entirely sure the tv is the issue, but it's easily _an issue._


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Toothless said:


> I'm not entirely sure the tv is the issue, but it's easily _an issue._


Yeah I'm not sure that the problem is the TV, but will make it better. But like I said twice before, I'm afraid to spend a lot of money buying a new monitor and that doens't fix my problem at all. And then after buying the TV I find out that the problem is something related to the memorys for example, and I have to buy another one, that'll be really really hard...


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## Airisom (Apr 9, 2021)

Well, it could be the game you're playing too. You're not going to get uniform input lag on every single game as all game engines behave differently. If you can move your mouse around in windows fine with no perceptible lag, but you do when you play games, then you're most likely looking at a game-level latency. Lower framerates can increase that. You will feel more input lag at 30fps than you will at 60fps+ in most cases.

Playing with low latency mode in nvcp might help.


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

airisom said:


> Well, it could be the game you're playing too. You're not going to get uniform input lag on every single game as all game engines behave differently. If you can move your mouse around in windows fine with no perceptible lag, but you do when you play games, then you're most likely looking at a game-level latency. Lower framerates can increase that. You will feel more input lag at 30fps than you will at 60fps+ in most cases.


If you're talking about low FPS, I'm pretty sure that's not the problem. I usually play only Valorant or CSGO, and always with more than 250fps, so low framerate I really doubt is the problem.

I was thinking could be something related to my mouse, I have a Hyperx Pulsefire Core, but I was searching and I couldn't find anyone with a similar problem, or saying that his sensor is bad and stuff like that. What do you guys think?





Also I posted something related to the input lag at NVIDIA foruns and they suggested me this, I can also try this later, but I'm don't think is gonna work


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## AsRock (Apr 9, 2021)

Water cooler 9 years old ?,  don't the rubber tubes loose water over time coursing bubbles ?. 

Still think TV be your issue, you have no other monitor or TV you can plug in for a hour ?.  I just replaced my old TV which was 12 years old as i was getting shadows and still get them with a newer one but it's a lot less.  TV's are not ready for fast gaming yet and 40" monitors are like $800+. So i got one of the last 1080P panels i could find (2019).


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

AsRock said:


> Water cooler 9 years old ?,  don't the rubber tubes loose water over time coursing bubbles ?.
> 
> Still think TV be your issue, you have no other monitor or TV you can plug in for a hour ?.  I just replaced my old TV which was 12 years old as i was getting shadows and still get them with a newer one but it's a lot less.  TV's are not ready for fast gaming yet and 40" monitors are like $800+. So i got one of the last 1080P panels i could find (2019).


I dont know about the cooler man, but it's probably the next thing I will buy. And unfortunately I don't have any other monitor that I can test. I have friends which have 144Hz monitors, but due to covid is kinda hard to borrow them for like an hour. I will try to go to a friend's house so I can test.


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## Calmmo (Apr 9, 2021)

Pixel response time and input response time are separate things. For example you can try even old VA panels with double digit response times, you will be noticing blur/ lack of motion clarity not perceived input delays.


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Calmmo said:


> Pixel response time and input response time are separate things. For example you can try even old VA panels with double digit response times, you will be noticing blur/ lack of motion clarity not perceived input delays.


So whay do you think it's causing the problem?


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## mouacyk (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Yes, basically I am using the same monitor now as I used with the old PC. I used one for a while because it had a smaller time response, it has 2ms and this one that I'm using now has 5ms, I'm not sure but the problem started next when I got my monitor (Samsung TA550) back. I don't know if it is a coincidence or the problem is really the monitor, but I need to be 100% sure before buying a brand new monitor.
> 
> 
> View attachment 195857So as you can see I runned the test for like an hour I didn't show any problem. I runned while desktop, running CSGO and just searching random things on Google. By looking at it do you can tell if there's any problem?


Those latencies are high, because a good system is around 100us, 200us tops.  Correct drivers for all motherboard components allow them to communicate most efficiently and optimally.

Based on Steam support:


> Update Your Chipset Drivers​Chipset drivers are responsible for controlling communication between various components in your system: the processor, the video card, the hard drives, PCI devices and system memory. Keeping these drivers up to date is important - especially if *you are experiencing generally sluggish system performance*.
> 
> Please visit your motherboard manufacturer's website to determine what type of chipset your motherboard has and where you can find the most recent drivers for it.


There are 4 Maximus 10 boards, so go to the Support section on the motherboard website and download the correct chipset drivers and install them.  It's  good to make sure you don't have any unknown devices in your device manager, and installing the chipset driver generally resolves that, because then Windows 10 can proceed to install the correct drivers for them.





Also post a screenshot of your running tasks/services from Task Manager.  Sort it by CPU usage.


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Those latencies are high, because a good system is around 100us, 200us tops.  Correct drivers for all motherboard components allow them to communicate most efficiently and optimally.
> 
> Based on Steam support:
> 
> ...


I will search for the correct chipset driver, but do you want the screenshot while I'm playing or just with the PC on?


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## mouacyk (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> I will search for the correct chipset driver, but do you want the screenshot while I'm playing or just with the PC on?


Both will be more helpful.


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Some parts are in Portuguese, but if you have any doubt just send me. Also do you know where I can find the chipset drivers for the "Asus Rog Maximus X"


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## basco (Apr 9, 2021)

did ya see this: worth a try


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## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Both will be more helpful.





Here's the printscreen while CSGO is open. Muito baixo= Very Low / Baixo= Low / Muito alto = Very high



basco said:


> did ya see this: worth a try


Yeah I tried that


----------



## milewski1015 (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Also do you know where I can find the chipset drivers for the "Asus Rog Maximus X"







__





						ROG MAXIMUS X HERO | ROG Maximus | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
					

ROG Maximus X Hero Z370ATX motherboard with Aura Sync, SupremeFX, Dual M.2, Intel LAN, Optane compatibility, VR functionality, M.2 heatsink and USB 3.1 Gen 2.



					rog.asus.com


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

milewski1015 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks man!


----------



## mouacyk (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Some parts are in Portuguese, but if you have any doubt just send me. Also do you know where I can find the chipset drivers for the "Asus Rog Maximus X"


Go to for drivers: ROG Maximus | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global (asus.com)
Again, there are multiple Maximus X boards so you have to pick the one that is yours before getting to the driver download page.

Nothing looks off based on your screenshot, but once you get chipset drivers updated, I'd try running the game without Chrome or Discord running in background (just to try to isolate the issue).


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Go to for drivers: ROG Maximus | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global (asus.com)
> Again, there are multiple Maximus X boards so you have to pick the one that is yours before getting to the driver download page.
> 
> Nothing looks off based on your screenshot, but once you get have chipset drivers updated, I'd try running the game without Chrome or Discord running background (just to try to isolate the issue).


Okay, I will do that later and then I send the results here. How can I be sure what’s mine Maximus X?


----------



## mouacyk (Apr 9, 2021)

Fool proof way is to look at your motherboard and see what it matches up to on the website:


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Fool proof way is to look at your motherboard and see what it matches up to on the website:
> View attachment 195964


Thanks a lot man, will try that later


----------



## milewski1015 (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Thanks a lot man, will try that later


It will also list the motherboard model in the BIOS too. Apologies on jumping the gun and providing the driver page for potentially a board you don't have. The principle is the same though. Once you have the board model ("Maximus X Code" for example), just go to the product page for that board on Asus's website, click the support tab, then the driver and utility tab, and it will list the different drivers.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

milewski1015 said:


> It will also list the motherboard model in the BIOS too. Apologies on jumping the gun and providing the driver page for potentially a board you don't have. The principle is the same though. Once you have the board model ("Maximus X Code" for example), just go to the product page for that board on Asus's website, click the support tab, then the driver and utility tab, and it will list the different drivers.


Np that’s really helpful, I will check that later, thanks for the help!



mouacyk said:


> Fool proof way is to look at your motherboard and see what it matches up to on the website:
> View attachment 195964


Basically I entered on the link that you sent, and after finding my motherboard model I didn’t find the link or the driver to download. https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-maximus/rog-maximus-x-hero-model/


----------



## milewski1015 (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Basically I entered on the link that you sent, and after finding my motherboard model I didn’t find the link or the driver to download.


Which Maximus X board do you have? Hero? Code? Formula?


----------



## mouacyk (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Np that’s really helpful, I will check that later, thanks for the help!
> 
> 
> Basically I entered on the link that you sent, and after finding my motherboard model I didn’t find the link or the driver to download. https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-maximus/rog-maximus-x-hero-model/


You have to navigate your way to the download page from there ;(

Support -> "Driver & Utility" -> Pick your OS -> Scroll down to Chipset -> Click Download


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

milewski1015 said:


> Which Maximus X board do you have? Hero? Code? Formula?


The Hero one



mouacyk said:


> You have to navigate your way to the download page from there ;(
> 
> Support -> "Driver & Utility" -> Pick your OS -> Scroll down to Chipset -> Click Download


Alright I'll see if I can find



mouacyk said:


> You have to navigate your way to the download page from there ;(
> 
> Support -> "Driver & Utility" -> Pick your OS -> Scroll down to Chipset -> Click Download


Alright, just finished doing that. Is that supposed to fix the problem or do I have to do anything else?


----------



## mouacyk (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> The Hero one
> 
> 
> Alright I'll see if I can find
> ...


Maybe.  Afterward, make sure Windows updates are caught up.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Maybe.  Afterward, make sure Windows updates are caught up.


Yes, I have the last version installed


----------



## Valantar (Apr 9, 2021)

Just chiming in about something missing here: The OP/title says "input lag is killing me", yet nowhere can I find an actual description of how this lag comes across/is experienced. Is it a constant, even lag? 'Cause that's what input lag is - the system is always a bit slow to respond to inputs. If it's uneven, spiky, on-and-off, jumping from nothing to suddenly very slow, then that's not input lag but something else. People tend to use "input lag" as a catch-all term for a lot of things that aren't input lag. Some clarification of how exactly this "lag" looks/feels/acts would be helpful in determining its source.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Maybe.  Afterward, make sure Windows updates are caught up.


Also when I downloaded it created a Zip file, which I extracted resulting on a folder, then I double clicked the “Setup” and installed. Now that is installed, can I delete this folder and the Zip file?


----------



## mouacyk (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Also when I downloaded it created a Zip file, which I extracted resulting on a folder, then I double clicked the “Setup” and installed. Now that is installed, can I delete this folder and the Zip file?


yes


----------



## Vayra86 (Apr 9, 2021)

AsRock said:


> Depends how it means 5ms right ?, BTW,GTG or what they ever please to do these days.,



5ms is generally used for older, slower (office) IPS and for VA with no frills.

Its definitely yesteryears spec number but its impossible to attribute that to general sense of latency on the system. Even slow panels are not slow enough for that effect. Vsync will still hurt you more.



Mussels said:


> it absolutely makes a massive difference, we're talking upto 100ms -TV's are not made for interactive content, they'd buffer and delay content so they could process it and turn interlaced signals into progressive and so on
> 
> you 100% need to turn game mode on and all processing features off, on any TV used for any sort of gaming


Except for this, indeed, there is literally no limit to the amount of trickery within TVs to somehow make things not ultra shit latency wise and/or produce a nice image. Killing all processing done by the TV to spice up the image is basically what Game Modes do, and with that, you also kill the latency hit, or a lot of it.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Vayra86 said:


> 5ms is generally used for older, slower (office) IPS and for VA with no frills.
> 
> Its definitely yesteryears spec number but its impossible to attribute that to general sense of latency on the system. Even slow panels are not slow enough for that effect. Vsync will still hurt you more.
> 
> ...


The problem is that I activated this game mode, but didn’t change a bit, do you have any more suggestions?



mouacyk said:


> yes


Alright, I tested and it doesn’t seem like it worked. What else can I do? (Beside buying a new monitor, of course)


----------



## Vayra86 (Apr 9, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Just chiming in about something missing here: The OP/title says "input lag is killing me", yet nowhere can I find an actual description of how this lag comes across/is experienced. Is it a constant, even lag? 'Cause that's what input lag is - the system is always a bit slow to respond to inputs. If it's uneven, spiky, on-and-off, jumping from nothing to suddenly very slow, then that's not input lag but something else. People tend to use "input lag" as a catch-all term for a lot of things that aren't input lag. Some clarification of how exactly this "lag" looks/feels/acts would be helpful in determining its source.



Take note of this message @Lkzz . What is your baseline? Do you compare this performance against another system you also use which is 'normal'?

Beyond that... if you have the TV sorted out, and all other 'normal' things have been checked and are in good order, its time to go back to basics and build back up from scratch. I'd start with cabling, software installed and running and basically exclude everything one by one. Test after every little step - make yourself a short test you can easily reproduce and where the behaviour is clearly noticeable.

If you have a few things installed or in the system/in terms of hardware/peripherals etc. that you think are suspect, remove those first. As in remove entirely, uninstall the accompanying software etc. If that shortcut doesn't deliver, start clean.

If you can borrow another monitor, that's obviously an easy thing to test as well.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Vayra86 said:


> Take note of this message @Lkzz . What is your baseline? Do you compare this performance against another system you also use which is 'normal'?
> 
> Beyond that... if you have the TV sorted out, and all other 'normal' things have been checked and are in good order, its time to go back to basics and build back up from scratch. I'd start with cabling, software installed and running and basically exclude everything one by one. Test after every little step - make yourself a short test you can easily reproduce and where the behaviour is clearly noticeable.
> 
> If you have a few things installed or in the system/in terms of hardware/peripherals etc. that you think are suspect, remove those first. As in remove entirely, uninstall the accompanying software etc.


I’m sorry, but I don’t get it, what do you want me to do? I didn’t run any tested on another PC, because this problem usually happens while I’m playing. And yes, it’s something constant. I made all the updates (Chipset drivers, windows, NVIDIA, ethernet). I was thinking that maybe the problem is related to my mouse, but I really doubt that, and others peripherals such as keyboard and other stuff doesn’t make any sense. About the cable, what do you think could be the problem? Also energy I don’t think it’s related to my problem. I can try to run some tests without Discord that if I’m not mistaken, it’s the only “software” that I use.


----------



## Valantar (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> I’m sorry, but I don’t get it, what do you want me to do? I didn’t run any tested on another PC, because this problem usually happens while I’m playing. And yes, it’s something constant. I made all the updates (Chipset drivers, windows, NVIDIA, ethernet). I was thinking that maybe the problem is related to my mouse, but I really doubt that, and others peripherals such as keyboard and other stuff doesn’t make any sense. About the cable, what do you think could be the problem? Also energy I don’t think it’s related to my problem. I can try to run some tests without Discord that if I’m not mistaken, it’s the only “software” that I use.


So the lag is even, your reactions/in-game actions just register slower than you think they should?

This is a useful tool for roughly identifying your actual ("motion-to-photon", or mouse movement-to-movement-on-screen) input lag, even if it's not exactly accurate. Adjust the slider at the top until your mouse stays within the bounds of the circle during all movement, that gives you an approximation of your actual input lag.

If you're experiencing excessive input lag, it should be there no matter what application/game you're running, unless that application has some seriously buggy code. CPU and GPU load can of course affect this, but only through being too slow to keep up with the processing needs of the system. I.e. you get what you get with what hardware you have - and with your setup, you shouldn't be held back there.

DPC latency is indeed also a candidate, though that's harder to pinpoint as the issue, and essentially impossible to fix unless you report it to the motherboard maker and they actually make a driver/BIOS update to address it. Chances of that are slim.

A bad mouse can absolutely cause input lag - most cheap mice have 125Hz polling (how often they send data to the system), i.e. 8ms passes between each time your system gets new data (position changes, clicks) from your mouse. That adds on top of the various processing,  signal transfer and lcd response delays of the game, system, wiring and monitor. It's more noticeable with faster monitors though, but gaming on a 125Hz mouse feels bad no matter what.


----------



## mouacyk (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> - As a precaution to make sure it wasn't network related lag I changed my ISP to a more stable ISP. It was more to prove to people that the problem isn't internet related as that seems to be the easy 'cop out' for people to suggest. So yes it is input lag and not regular internet lag.


Because you are focused on CS:GO, do you know what kind of network latency you are actually getting?  What do you mean by "stable ISP"?  Not sure what the infrastructure is like there in Brazil, but anything above 100ms is not good.  15-50ms is ideal for CS:GO.  Also, if it swings from like 50ms to 150ms and back to 50ms, that's not good either.

Can you take a screenshot of the CPU-Z memory tab? Then go into Event Viewer, apply the following filter and post a screenshot? Just want to rule out any memory issues, because you also changed memory.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Because you are focused on CS:GO, do you know what kind of network latency you are actually getting?  What do you mean by "stable ISP"?  Not sure what the infrastructure is like there in Brazil, but anything above 100ms is not good.  15-50ms is ideal for CS:GO.  Also, if it swings from like 50ms to 150ms and back to 50ms, that's not good either.
> 
> Can you take a screenshot of the CPU-Z memory tab? Then go into Event Viewer, apply the following filter and post a screenshot? Just want to rule out any memory issues, because you also changed memory.
> View attachment 195998


Well you mean the PING while gaming? It’s always between 5-20. And where can I find this CPU-Z memory tab?


----------



## mouacyk (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Well you mean the PING while gaming? It’s always between 5-20. And where can I find this CPU-Z memory tab?


OK, so PING is not an issue .  I'm still curious to see how your RAM is configured and if it's actually stable.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> OK, so PING is not an issue .  I'm still curious to see how your RAM is configured and if it's actually stable.


Sure I’ll send you ASAP, but I just need to be sure, where exactly can I find this CPU-Z tab? Sorry for disturbing you mate...


----------



## mouacyk (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Sure I’ll send you ASAP, but I just need to be sure, where exactly can I find this CPU-Z tab? Sorry for disturbing you mate...


Google it please.  There will be other useful tools for you to have:
_HWiNFO _to get temperature readings, and error logs
TechPowerUp's _MemTest64 _to test your RAM


----------



## milewski1015 (Apr 9, 2021)

CPU-Z | Softwares | CPUID
					

CPU-Z is a freeware that gathers information on some of the main devices of your system :  			 				Processor name and number, codename, process, package, cache levels. 				Mainboard and chipset. 				Memory type, size, timings, and module specifications (SPD). 				Real time measurement of each...




					www.cpuid.com
				












						Free Download HWiNFO Sofware | Installer & Portable for Windows, DOS
					

Start to analyze your hardware right now! HWiNFO has available as an Installer and Portable version for Windows (32/64-bit) and Portable version for DOS.




					www.hwinfo.com
				












						TechPowerUp
					

MemTest64 is a free system memory stability and error detection software for all Intel and AMD processors. It runs on 64 bit Windows without installation.




					www.techpowerup.com
				




CPU-Z is a separate piece of software. The memory tab will show your memory capacity, frequency, primary timings, and whether it's running in single or dual channel.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Valantar said:


> So the lag is even, your reactions/in-game actions just register slower than you think they should?
> 
> This is a useful tool for roughly identifying your actual ("motion-to-photon", or mouse movement-to-movement-on-screen) input lag, even if it's not exactly accurate. Adjust the slider at the top until your mouse stays within the bounds of the circle during all movement, that gives you an approximation of your actual input lag.
> 
> ...


Alright, first of all, I don't really understand how to use this tool, can you explain in detail? Also I already used DPC, you can see the results on the first page. And my mouse is a Hyperx Pulsefire Core, I've done some research and I didn't find anything related to Input lag or bad sensor, also it has 1000Hz of polling rate that can be altered in the software "Xgenuity" if I'm not mistaken. And isn't something very constant you know? Sometimes the game feels smooth, while others it feels like my mouse has a weight of a building, trash analogy but you got my point right?



mouacyk said:


> Google it please.  There will be other useful tools for you to have:
> _HWiNFO _to get temperature readings, and error logs
> TechPowerUp's _MemTest64 _to test your RAM


Will try that ASAP



milewski1015 said:


> CPU-Z | Softwares | CPUID
> 
> 
> CPU-Z is a freeware that gathers information on some of the main devices of your system :  			 				Processor name and number, codename, process, package, cache levels. 				Mainboard and chipset. 				Memory type, size, timings, and module specifications (SPD). 				Real time measurement of each...
> ...


Thanks mate. When you guys talked about the CPU-Z I thought it was just some windows application or something like hahaha. I will use all you've sent and then I send the results here so we can continue searching for the problem. Thanks a million! 




Screenshot of CPU-Z memory tab




TechpowerUp test results "Test finished with no errors detected"




HInfo test without playing


----------



## Valantar (Apr 9, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Alright, first of all, I don't really understand how to use this tool, can you explain in detail? Also I already used DPC, you can see the results on the first page. And my mouse is a Hyperx Pulsefire Core, I've done some research and I didn't find anything related to Input lag or bad sensor, also it has 1000Hz of polling rate that can be altered in the software "Xgenuity" if I'm not mistaken. And isn't something very constant you know? Sometimes the game feels smooth, while others it feels like my mouse has a weight of a building, trash analogy but you got my point right?


To use that tool, adjust the slider until your mouse pointer doesn't leave the red circle when moving the mouse around at any speed, but stays as close to the edge of the circle as possible. The number by the slider then gives you a rough indication of your total input lag. Running this while running something game-like in the background stressing the CPU and GPU might be interesting for the sake of comparison, to see if anything changes. Or just alt+tab out of any game and do the test then, of course.

As for what you're describing, given that it's variable, it's not "input lag" per se, but most likely some form of processing lag or system latency. The end result is much the same, but given that its intermittent and not constant it's not something that changing your monitor, wiring or inputs will affect. A mouse or monitor are either slow or not; they aren't sometimes slow and sometimes not. So you can eliminate all of those factors from consideration.

That leaves us with the PC itself, its internal hardware, cpu and GPU loads, system latencies, software, drivers, etc. So eliminating the I/O sadly doesn't help you much.

As was mentioned before, your dpc latency numbers are not very good. If your drivers and BIOS are up to date, I would submit a support ticket to your motherboard vendor telling them about high dpc latency and asking for driver updates addressing that.

Still, the intermittent nature of the problem makes it more difficult to identify. One thing to try: the next time your gameplay feels like that, alt+tab out of the game and run the dpc latency test again, see if the numbers are any different.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 9, 2021)

Valantar said:


> To use that tool, adjust the slider until your mouse pointer doesn't leave the red circle when moving the mouse around at any speed, but stays as close to the edge of the circle as possible. The number by the slider then gives you a rough indication of your total input lag. Running this while running something game-like in the background stressing the CPU and GPU might be interesting for the sake of comparison, to see if anything changes. Or just alt+tab out of any game and do the test then, of course.
> 
> As for what you're describing, given that it's variable, it's not "input lag" per se, but most likely some form of processing lag or system latency. The end result is much the same, but given that its intermittent and not constant it's not something that changing your monitor, wiring or inputs will affect. A mouse or monitor are either slow or not; they aren't sometimes slow and sometimes not. So you can eliminate all of those factors from consideration.
> 
> ...


Alright i will send a ticket to ASUS, but do you have any more tests that I can do to be sure where exactly the problem is happening?



Valantar said:


> To use that tool, adjust the slider until your mouse pointer doesn't leave the red circle when moving the mouse around at any speed, but stays as close to the edge of the circle as possible. The number by the slider then gives you a rough indication of your total input lag. Running this while running something game-like in the background stressing the CPU and GPU might be interesting for the sake of comparison, to see if anything changes. Or just alt+tab out of any game and do the test then, of course.
> 
> As for what you're describing, given that it's variable, it's not "input lag" per se, but most likely some form of processing lag or system latency. The end result is much the same, but given that its intermittent and not constant it's not something that changing your monitor, wiring or inputs will affect. A mouse or monitor are either slow or not; they aren't sometimes slow and sometimes not. So you can eliminate all of those factors from consideration.
> 
> ...





I think that's it, I don't know if I'm doing right, but I'm just moving my mouse back and forth and trying to identify if it stills on the circle



Valantar said:


> To use that tool, adjust the slider until your mouse pointer doesn't leave the red circle when moving the mouse around at any speed, but stays as close to the edge of the circle as possible. The number by the slider then gives you a rough indication of your total input lag. Running this while running something game-like in the background stressing the CPU and GPU might be interesting for the sake of comparison, to see if anything changes. Or just alt+tab out of any game and do the test then, of course.
> 
> As for what you're describing, given that it's variable, it's not "input lag" per se, but most likely some form of processing lag or system latency. The end result is much the same, but given that its intermittent and not constant it's not something that changing your monitor, wiring or inputs will affect. A mouse or monitor are either slow or not; they aren't sometimes slow and sometimes not. So you can eliminate all of those factors from consideration.
> 
> ...


Now that I was thiking, the test that you've seen on the first page was before I updated my chipset driver, do you think that making the test again would do any difference at all?



Valantar said:


> To use that tool, adjust the slider until your mouse pointer doesn't leave the red circle when moving the mouse around at any speed, but stays as close to the edge of the circle as possible. The number by the slider then gives you a rough indication of your total input lag. Running this while running something game-like in the background stressing the CPU and GPU might be interesting for the sake of comparison, to see if anything changes. Or just alt+tab out of any game and do the test then, of course.
> 
> As for what you're describing, given that it's variable, it's not "input lag" per se, but most likely some form of processing lag or system latency. The end result is much the same, but given that its intermittent and not constant it's not something that changing your monitor, wiring or inputs will affect. A mouse or monitor are either slow or not; they aren't sometimes slow and sometimes not. So you can eliminate all of those factors from consideration.
> 
> ...





Result of the test with just Google and Discord open


----------



## mouacyk (Apr 10, 2021)

Can you go the Processes tab and sort the Hard pagefaults column? I think something is causing a lot of swapping. 




Have you played/tweaked your Virtual Memory settings at all? (Default should be fine.)
What are you using for sound?  Have you installed the latest driver from the manufacturer for that?


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 10, 2021)

These are results while CSGO, Discord and google open



mouacyk said:


> Can you go the Processes tab and sort the Hard pagefaults column? I think something is causing a lot of swapping.
> View attachment 196062
> 
> Have you played/tweaked your Virtual Memory settings at all? (Default should be fine.)
> What are you using for sound?  Have you installed the latest driver from the manufacturer for that?





There you go


----------



## Mussels (Apr 10, 2021)

Calmmo said:


> Pixel response time and input response time are separate things. For example you can try even old VA panels with double digit response times, you will be noticing blur/ lack of motion clarity not perceived input delays.


thank you! i knew i was missing an obvious way of explaining the marketing BS with reponse times, and thats the best yet

I use 165Hz VA panels here, there is simply no way they can be 'bad' just because they're 5ms - they are NOTHING like previous year displays which were also 5ms (because they improved every other thing, just not the one measured grey-to-grey response time)


45ms of input lag, sounds reaaaaally laggy to me... i got mine to 5-10ms (i cant tune it better because the circle is too small to see clearly)


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 10, 2021)

Mussels said:


> thank you! i knew i was missing an obvious way of explaining the marketing BS with reponse times, and thats the best yet
> 
> I use 165Hz VA panels here, there is simply no way they can be 'bad' just because they're 5ms - they are NOTHING like previous year displays which were also 5ms (because they improved every other thing, just not the one measured grey-to-grey response time)
> 
> ...


So you don't think that the monitor is the problem? Or if it's is nothing related to the response time.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 10, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> So you don't think that the monitor is the problem? Or if it's is nothing related to the response time.


the monitor is the cause of input latency. that is yet another suggestion is the monitor - the only other clue being that you linked to a post above about geforce now, a streaming service - i assume you are playing your games locally


----------



## mouacyk (Apr 10, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> View attachment 196066
> There you go


I think NVidia telemetry is suspect.  TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall can rememdy that.
Can you also show the "Drivers" tab, sorted by "Total execution" column?


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 10, 2021)

Mussels said:


> the monitor is the cause of input latency. that is yet another suggestion is the monitor - the only other clue being that you linked to a post above about geforce now, a streaming service - i assume you are playing your games locally


What do you mean by "playing your games locally"?



mouacyk said:


> I think NVidia telemetry is suspect.  TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall can rememdy that.
> Can you also show the "Drivers" tab, sorted by "Total execution" column?


Give me 10 minutes and then I will send you


----------



## Mussels (Apr 10, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> What do you mean by "playing your games locally"?


??

Are you installing the games and programs on your PC, or are you using nvidias streaming service to play games from the cloud


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 10, 2021)

Mussels said:


> ??
> 
> Are you installing the games and programs on your PC, or are you using nvidias streaming service to play games from the cloud


I'm installing on my PC


----------



## Mussels (Apr 10, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> I'm installing on my PC


thats locally. one of your answers above was related to streaming from nvidias cloud service, which as it turns out was just a mistake when searching for help

Definitely go get another monitor (not a TV) and as for the noisy watercooler thats going to almost take another thread to sort out, but you can most likely relocate any air bubbles making pump noise and continue using it


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 10, 2021)

Mussels said:


> thats locally. one of your answers above was related to streaming from nvidias cloud service, which as it turns out was just a mistake when searching for help
> 
> Definitely go get another monitor (not a TV) and as for the noisy watercooler thats going to almost take another thread to sort out, but you can most likely relocate any air bubbles making pump noise and continue using it


But are you really sure buying a new monitor will solve my problem?



mouacyk said:


> I think NVidia telemetry is suspect.  TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall can rememdy that.
> Can you also show the "Drivers" tab, sorted by "Total execution" column?








mouacyk said:


> I think NVidia telemetry is suspect.  TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall can rememdy that.
> Can you also show the "Drivers" tab, sorted by "Total execution" column?





Tests after I used TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall


----------



## mouacyk (Apr 10, 2021)

Either you're doing something in the background with your harddisk, or windows is indexing files hardcore, because the storage DPC counts are insane compare to others.  If not, I would recommend installing the SATA drivers from the motherboard website.




Mine for comparison (I have indexing service disabled):


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## Valantar (Apr 10, 2021)

Mussels said:


> thank you! i knew i was missing an obvious way of explaining the marketing BS with reponse times, and thats the best yet
> 
> I use 165Hz VA panels here, there is simply no way they can be 'bad' just because they're 5ms - they are NOTHING like previous year displays which were also 5ms (because they improved every other thing, just not the one measured grey-to-grey response time)
> 
> ...


45ms of input lag isn't _that_ much overall - remember, this is full system lag, not just monitor lag. It's definitely not _good_, but it's not terible. For reference, I'm at ~64 according to the same test, but then my monitor is a terribly slow, old Dell U2711. Yet I'm still thoroughly enjoying playing Doom Eternal on it, about as fast-paced a game as you get. As long as input lag is _consistent _(which it is if it's actually input lag), your perceptions and reactions can adjust and attune themselves to it to a certain degree. Faster will always be better, but slower isn't necessarily unusable and won't necessarily feel bad unless you're used to something faster. What the OP is describing here is intermittent lag, not consistent, so it can't be caused by inputs or outputs (unless they are fundamentally broken in some highly unlikely way). So it's highly unlikely that the problem the OP is describing is caused by a monitor with poor response times. This is likely a software, OS or driver issue.


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## Lkzz (Apr 10, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Either you're doing something in the background with your harddisk, or windows is indexing files hardcore, because the storage DPC counts are insane compare to others.  If not, I would recommend installing the SATA drivers from the motherboard website.
> View attachment 196071
> 
> Mine for comparison (I have indexing service disabled):
> View attachment 196072


Hmm and how can I exactly do that?



Valantar said:


> 45ms of input lag isn't _that_ much overall - remember, this is full system lag, not just monitor lag. It's definitely not _good_, but it's not terible. For reference, I'm at ~64 according to the same test, but then my monitor is a terribly slow, old Dell U2711. Yet I'm still thoroughly enjoying playing Doom Eternal on it, about as fast-paced a game as you get. As long as input lag is _consistent _(which it is if it's actually input lag), your perceptions and reactions can adjust and attune themselves to it to a certain degree. Faster will always be better, but slower isn't necessarily unusable and won't necessarily feel bad unless you're used to something faster. What the OP is describing here is intermittent lag, not consistent, so it can't be caused by inputs or outputs (unless they are fundamentally broken in some highly unlikely way). So it's highly unlikely that the problem the OP is describing is caused by a monitor with poor response times. This is likely a software, OS or driver issue.


And how can I test and be sure of what the problem really is? I was thinking about using this software here, I don't know if you guys ever heard about it: https://www.passmark.com/products/burnintest/index.php


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## Valantar (Apr 10, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Hmm and how can I exactly do that?
> 
> 
> And how can I test and be sure of what the problem really is? I was thinking about using this software here, I don't know if you guys ever heard about it: https://www.passmark.com/products/burnintest/index.php


I don't think there's any software that can reliably test for what you need, sadly. Burnintest is a stability test, stressing components heavily to see if anything crashes or otherwise fails. I don't know this for a fact, but I would be shocked if it did something as advanced as monitoring latencies while the PC is being stressed.


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## Lkzz (Apr 10, 2021)

Valantar said:


> I don't think there's any software that can reliably test for what you need, sadly. Burnintest is a stability test, stressing components heavily to see if anything crashes or otherwise fails. I don't know this for a fact, but I would be shocked if it did something as advanced as monitoring latencies while the PC is being stressed.


Man, is kinda hard to explain, but this lag it's harder while I'm playing CSGO, but for example when I'm playing Valorant is very very little. And the Burnintest would be more to test another problem that I'm suffering, which is blue screen, that I don't know if is related to this input lag problem at all. I had this blue screen problem on the "old PC", but probably was something related to the temperature, cause I had a GTX 1080, which has this fame of being really hot, and sometimes while playing COD it could reach almost 90 °C. And on the last PC, even with the constant blue screen error, I didn't have this "Input lag or whatever lag" problem.


----------



## milewski1015 (Apr 11, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Hmm and how can I exactly do that?


The same page where you downloaded the chipset driver, there’s a SATA driver there too


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## Lkzz (Apr 11, 2021)

milewski1015 said:


> The same page where you downloaded the chipset driver, there’s a SATA driver there too


Thanks mate!



mouacyk said:


> Either you're doing something in the background with your harddisk, or windows is indexing files hardcore, because the storage DPC counts are insane compare to others.  If not, I would recommend installing the SATA drivers from the motherboard website.
> View attachment 196071
> 
> Mine for comparison (I have indexing service disabled):
> View attachment 196072






The results after updating SATA drivers


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## Mussels (Apr 11, 2021)

disconnect the sata drive and run just the SSD and see if that issue goes away
your system specs dont even say what drive it is


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## Lkzz (Apr 11, 2021)

Well I have a Ssd M.2 Western Digital (wd) Black 512gb Nvme Pcie + Samsung HD 1TB. You mean trying to run the PC without the HDD?


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## mouacyk (Apr 11, 2021)

If you want to know what's hitting your HDD so much, look in the following location:



I suspect it's Windows search indexing or malware scanning.


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## Mussels (Apr 11, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Well I have a Ssd M.2 Western Digital (wd) Black 512gb Nvme Pcie + Samsung HD 1TB. You mean trying to run the PC without the HDD?


yes. you still only told me the brand, leaving hundreds of models it could be - disconnect it and see if this is input lag, or hard drive lag.


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## Lkzz (Apr 11, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> If you want to know what's hitting your HDD so much, look in the following location:
> View attachment 196203
> I suspect it's Windows search indexing or malware scanning.





This are the results, what can I do to solve this? I searched if this "SVCHOST.EXE" is the virus one and luckly it isn't, so I jdesactivated the windows update, and then I set the priorty to low and put just to use the CPU 0, which in my case I have 8



Mussels said:


> yes. you still only told me the brand, leaving hundreds of models it could be - disconnect it and see if this is input lag, or hard drive lag.


Alright I will try that tomorrow, but if you see the results it's probably something related to hard drive lag, this "SVCHOST.EXE" is consuming so much


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## Mussels (Apr 11, 2021)

svchost is windows updates


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## Lkzz (Apr 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> svchost is windows updates


But is it normal to consume that much?


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## Mussels (Apr 11, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> But is it normal to consume that much?


during updates? yes

and if windows is using that slow ass mech drive for those updates, the system would likely slow down quite a lot and stutter


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## Lkzz (Apr 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> during updates? yes
> 
> and if windows is using that slow ass mech drive for those updates, the system would likely slow down quite a lot and stutter


I think that's exactly what's happening


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## Mussels (Apr 11, 2021)

well, whats installed on the mech drive?


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## Lkzz (Apr 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> well, whats installed on the mech drive?


Well, how can I show you? I'm sorry man, but I just got a lot on my plate right now, this problem that I don't know how to fix, my dad with covid, my head is just a mess. So I'm really sorry for asking so many questions, but I want to give exactly what you asking for, so that way you guys can try to help me and I finally can get rid of one problem.


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## mouacyk (Apr 11, 2021)

You really should install Windows to the faster SSD or NVMe drive, so Windows updates don't take forever like this and interfere.


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## Mussels (Apr 11, 2021)

is windows on the mech drive or the SSD?


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## Valantar (Apr 11, 2021)

I would expect any HDD-based lag to be much more significant and intermittent (i.e. outright freezes or very major slowdowns lasting a second or two at random but frequent times, rather than the system feeling overall slow), which doesn't match too well with the op's description of the issue. But it could be the case, of course.


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## Lkzz (Apr 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> is windows on the mech drive or the SSD?


I'm not sure, but probably on the mech drive



mouacyk said:


> You really should install Windows to the faster SSD or NVMe drive, so Windows updates don't take forever like this and interfere.


So I need to format my computer?



Valantar said:


> I would expect any HDD-based lag to be much more significant and intermittent (i.e. outright freezes or very major slowdowns lasting a second or two at random but frequent times, rather than the system feeling overall slow), which doesn't match too well with the op's description of the issue. But it could be the case, of course.


Basically I suffer this lag sometimes, especially playing CSGO, and constant blue screens without any meaning, sometimes when I try to restart my computer this blue screen happens...

Hey guys just a quick update: Yes, all my things, including Windows and Steam such as other games, are installed on my SDD. Later I will try to run some tests withou the HDD, and I agree with you man @Valantar, I higly doubt that the problem is being caused by the HDD, I think maybe is something related to SDD or my memorys. If you guys have any other tests that I can run to make things clear, I accept suggestions...

And another thing, this input lag seems harder just on CSGO, I can move and spray normally with this


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## Mussels (Apr 12, 2021)

hard drives can cause stutter, windows has to pause and wait any time the drive spins up - and WINDOWS chooses when its accessed, not you.
Sitting there playing CSGO would give the drive time to idle, and then windows says 'oh good you're idle, time to defrag' or so on

theres so much information trickling out so slowly... you get bluescreens and never mentioned them?

disconnect the hard drive and see what happens, and give us photos of any BSOD's so we can read the codes


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## Frick (Apr 12, 2021)

What error codes do you get?


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## Valantar (Apr 12, 2021)

The sudden mention of BSODs definitely changes things. Can't remember if this has been done, so I'll ask: have you run any type of memory stability test? Memtest64 is a decent solution for running one in Windows, though I prefer making a bootable Memtest86 (not Memtest86+, it has a bug that causes it to hang on some multicore CPUs) USB stick and running that overnight.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 12, 2021)

Mussels said:


> hard drives can cause stutter, windows has to pause and wait any time the drive spins up - and WINDOWS chooses when its accessed, not you.
> Sitting there playing CSGO would give the drive time to idle, and then windows says 'oh good you're idle, time to defrag' or so on
> 
> theres so much information trickling out so slowly... you get bluescreens and never mentioned them?
> ...


I didn't think they had any connection, also I created another post based on this blue screen, but I had to delete it. The most usual code I get it's "system_thread_exception_not_handled" and "irql not less or equal", sorry for not mentioning that before guys, my bad...



Frick said:


> What error codes do you get?


Mostly "system_thread_exception_not_handled" and "irql not less or equal", sometimes even when I try to restart my computer this happens wihout any explanation



Valantar said:


> The sudden mention of BSODs definitely changes things. Can't remember if this has been done, so I'll ask: have you run any type of memory stability test? Memtest64 is a decent solution for running one in Windows, though I prefer making a bootable Memtest86 (not Memtest86+, it has a bug that causes it to hang on some multicore CPUs) USB stick and running that overnight.





I used the MemTest64 and this are the resulsts, do you know any other to test the memory? If I change the slots, will it make any difference? Also I'm pretty curious, cause this "Lag" happens harder and more often while I'm playing CSGO, while on Valorant it seems really normal. I don't know if this blue screen has anything to do with it, but is kinda curious...


----------



## Valantar (Apr 12, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> I didn't think they had any connection, also I created another post based on this blue screen, but I had to delete it. The most usual code I get it's "system_thread_exception_not_handled" and "irql not less or equal", sorry for not mentioning that before guys, my bad...
> 
> 
> Mostly "system_thread_exception_not_handled" and "irql not less or equal", sometimes even when I try to restart my computer this happens wihout any explanation
> ...


IMO two passes of an in-OS memory test isn't sufficient to rule out memory instability - it can't test memory that's reserved for the OS/other applications, and two loops might not be enough to detect intermittent errors. If I were you I'd download Memtest86, put it on an USB stick, boot from that and run it at least overnight.


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## Lkzz (Apr 12, 2021)

Valantar said:


> IMO two passes of an in-OS memory test isn't sufficient to rule out memory instability - it can't test memory that's reserved for the OS/other applications, and two loops might not be enough to detect intermittent errors. If I were you I'd download Memtest86, put it on an USB stick, boot from that and run it at least overnight.


And how can I boot from this USB? Do you have any video explaining how to do that? Maybe on YT or something. Or I simply plug the USB and select it as the first boot option on BIOS?


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## Valantar (Apr 12, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> And how can I boot from this USB? Do you have any video explaining how to do that? Maybe on YT or something. Or I simply plug the USB and select it as the first boot option on BIOS?


You need an USB drive with nothing on it, a bootable image file (typically a .iso) of the relevant test/OS/application + an application like Rufus or YUMI that allows you to extract the image onto the drive and make it bootable. Rufus is simple to use and supports a very broad range of systems, while YUMI is more limited in its support but allows for multiple images on one flash drive. Rufus should fit your needs here. Just follow the instructions in the application, don't have any other USB storage connected while preparing the drive (removes the chance of accidentally wiping the wrong drive), reboot and choose to boot from the USB rather than your Windows drive.


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## Lkzz (Apr 12, 2021)

Valantar said:


> You need an USB drive with nothing on it, a bootable image file (typically a .iso) of the relevant test/OS/application + an application like Rufus or YUMI that allows you to extract the image onto the drive and make it bootable. Rufus is simple to use and supports a very broad range of systems, while YUMI is more limited in its support but allows for multiple images on one flash drive. Rufus should fit your needs here. Just follow the instructions in the application, don't have any other USB storage connected while preparing the drive (removes the chance of accidentally wiping the wrong drive), reboot and choose to boot from the USB rather than your Windows drive.


Alright man I will try that later, and once again, thank you so much for the help, this problem is freaking my out...


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## Mussels (Apr 13, 2021)

i recommend this memtest
MemTest86 - Official Site of the x86 and ARM Memory Testing Tool

they have a simple .exe installer that formats your USB drive, you just boot from it and walk away - it auto loads the test (i use it on  testbench systems with no keyboard and mouse out of laziness)


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## Lkzz (Apr 13, 2021)

Hey guys, I runned the test yesterday and it didn't report any error, I tested with all the memory together, and I don't know if going one by one will make any difference, but if it make, I can run the test once again. Also, do you guys have any other test that I can run to test other components? Such as graphics card or SSD?


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## Valantar (Apr 13, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Hey guys, I runned the test yesterday and it didn't report any error, I tested with all the memory together, and I don't know if going one by one will make any difference, but if it make, I can run the test once again. Also, do you guys have any other test that I can run to test other components? Such as graphics card or SSD?


If you ran Memtest86 for the standard workload and it didn't report any errors, that more or less rules out memory issues (even if they can always crop up, and absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence). An SSD can't really be stress tested in the same way - for a heavy-ish load, run any disk benchmark on it (CrystalDiskMark, for example), but none of those will run for particularly long, and none will show whether drive activity causes slowdowns in other applications. SSDs generally aren't unstable or cause system crashes either, unless the drive is faulty, in which case the only way to tell is typically to try with another drive. As for the GPU, Unigine's benchmarks are pretty good (Superposition for current-gen hardware, though Valley and Heaven is also decent if much lighter), though neither of these are interactive (no benchmarks are), so you aren't likely to be able to tell if the system becomes noticeably more laggy while they're running.


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## Lkzz (Apr 13, 2021)

Valantar said:


> If you ran Memtest86 for the standard workload and it didn't report any errors, that more or less rules out memory issues (even if they can always crop up, and absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence). An SSD can't really be stress tested in the same way - for a heavy-ish load, run any disk benchmark on it (CrystalDiskMark, for example), but none of those will run for particularly long, and none will show whether drive activity causes slowdowns in other applications. SSDs generally aren't unstable or cause system crashes either, unless the drive is faulty, in which case the only way to tell is typically to try with another drive. As for the GPU, Unigine's benchmarks are pretty good (Superposition for current-gen hardware, though Valley and Heaven is also decent if much lighter), though neither of these are interactive (no benchmarks are), so you aren't likely to be able to tell if the system becomes noticeably more laggy while they're running.


So you want me to run the Unigine benchmark to test the GPU, and try to use another SSD unit to see if the problem persists?


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## R-T-B (Apr 13, 2021)

Personally, if he's getting blue screens and ram is fine, I would check the storage media next with a smart test.

The one I use (hdd sentinel) is commercial trialware, but the free trial should be good enough to figure out if a drive is failing or not


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## Lkzz (Apr 13, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Personally, if he's getting blue screens and ram is fine, I would check the storage media next with a smart test.
> 
> The one I use (hdd sentinel) is commercial trialware, but the free trial should be good enough to figure out if a drive is failing or not


Are you sure this HDD sentinel has a free trial? If it does than I can check later, does it take long to finish or not?


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## Valantar (Apr 13, 2021)

You could also use CrystalDiskInfo, which IIRC is entirely free.


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## Lkzz (Apr 13, 2021)

Valantar said:


> You could also use CrystalDiskInfo, which IIRC is entirely free.


Alright I will try that, in case it didn't show any errors, what else can I do to test other things like my Graphics Card? I really think that the problem involving the Input lag, lag or whatever this is, maybe is related so kind of config of the windows or even the game, because I tested on Valorant and CSGO, and the problems seems to happen harder or only on CSGO. But what is worrying me is the constant BSOD without any reason





I installed the CrystalDiskInfo and appointed this in one of the HDD, what should I do? Beside this "Reallocated Sectors Count, there's another on yellow, it's the "Current Pending Sector Count" but I don't have ideia of what this is...

Do you guys think that this may be the cause of the Blue screen? I removed the HDD and tomorrow I will try to play CS and see if this lag stops, or at least this blue screen stops, but it's really hard to say, because it doesn't happens everyday, sometimes only twice in a week or so. But anyway, if you guys think that this caution alert is not enough to be causing this BSOD, what else can I do to test?


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## Mussels (Apr 14, 2021)

there we go, looks like that disk is in fact dying
that says its had 99 sectors die and be locked down, and you said theres another 10 pending (meaning more are dying)

that disk is 100% dying and needs to be replaced... unplug it and dont power it on until you have a replacement drive to backup your data onto

Thats a very slow, very old eco drive - its a 2009 model with only 5,400RPM... time to upgrade it before you lose all the data on it.


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## Lkzz (Apr 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> there we go, looks like that disk is in fact dying
> that says its had 99 sectors die and be locked down, and you said theres another 10 pending (meaning more are dying)
> 
> that disk is 100% dying and needs to be replaced... unplug it and dont power it on until you have a replacement drive to backup your data onto
> ...


Thanks mate! I will try to use the PC without him for sometime and see if this blue screen stops, maybe even the lag. I will use all day tomorrow and after that I'll give a report here. Thanks a ton for your help!



Mussels said:


> there we go, looks like that disk is in fact dying
> that says its had 99 sectors die and be locked down, and you said theres another 10 pending (meaning more are dying)
> 
> that disk is 100% dying and needs to be replaced... unplug it and dont power it on until you have a replacement drive to backup your data onto
> ...


Do you think that even with the fact that the operational system and the games, especially CSGO which is presenting this lag, are installed on the SSD, this slow HDD can be causing the BSOD and this lags during game?


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## Mussels (Apr 14, 2021)

Please... disconnect that HD and find out. There's zero point thinking up theories when you could be actually finding out.


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## Valantar (Apr 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> there we go, looks like that disk is in fact dying
> that says its had 99 sectors die and be locked down, and you said theres another 10 pending (meaning more are dying)
> 
> that disk is 100% dying and needs to be replaced... unplug it and dont power it on until you have a replacement drive to backup your data onto
> ...


I'm 99% sure you're misreading the reallocated sector count - I think it's counting down from 100, not up from 0. If it had 99 reallocated sectors with a threshold of 10 that indicator wouldn't be yellow but bright red, as that would indeed be a sign of imminent drive failure.

Still, I would also replace that drive. Dying drives need replacing ASAP.


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## Mussels (Apr 14, 2021)

i may be reading those numbers wrong, i dont use that program... but its given a warning on reallocated sectors and that means a dying disk no matter what


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## Valantar (Apr 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> i may be reading those numbers wrong, i dont use that program... but its given a warning on reallocated sectors and that means a dying disk no matter what


Dying, sure. But 1/100 and 99/100 are pretty distinctly different ends of the "how soon is this likely to fail" spectrum  But as I said


Valantar said:


> I would also replace that drive. Dying drives need replacing ASAP.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 14, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Dying, sure. But 1/100 and 99/100 are pretty distinctly different ends of the "how soon is this likely to fail" spectrum  But as I said


Alright, but like I asked before, even with the windows and the games installed on the SSD, with this slow and dying HDD that can be causing this lag and blue screen? I will use the PC all day today and see if I get the BSOD and tomorrow I will try to play and see if the lag persists...


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## Mussels (Apr 14, 2021)

Yes, a failling device can cause all sorts of problems

Every minute that drive is powered on increases the chance of it dying, and you losing all data on it - you should have disconnected it immediately on finding it has bad sectors


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## Lkzz (Apr 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Yes, a failling device can cause all sorts of problems
> 
> Every minute that drive is powered on increases the chance of it dying, and you losing all data on it - you should have disconnected it immediately on finding it has bad sectors


Yes I already disconnnected it

Yeah guys, the HDD may be causing the problem, but definitely is not the main cause of the BSOD and this lag on CSGO. I removed it and tested, and rn after turning the PC on, this Blue Screen happenned again. Any other tests I can make to find what's the problem?


----------



## mouacyk (Apr 14, 2021)

Did you try running the Latency Checker app again to see what else is creating large numbers of DPC counts?


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## Lkzz (Apr 14, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> Did you try running the Latency Checker app again to see what else is creating large numbers of DPC counts?


After turning the HDD off? No, but I can test and send the results here if you want


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## Valantar (Apr 14, 2021)

Is anything in your system overclocked (including memory xmp)? If so, return it to stock clocks. If not, a windows reinstall might be worth trying to ensure there isn't some software shenanigans causing your bsods. Beyond that you're looking at some hardware error that you'd need spare parts to diagnose (cpu, gpu, motherboard).


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## Lkzz (Apr 14, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Is anything in your system overclocked (including memory xmp)? If so, return it to stock clocks. If not, a windows reinstall might be worth trying to ensure there isn't some software shenanigans causing your bsods. Beyond that you're looking at some hardware error that you'd need spare parts to diagnose (cpu, gpu, motherboard).


What can I do to test the other parts such as the GPU? And I reisntalled the windows at list 2 times to try to fix and the problem still happening, so that might not fix the problem



mouacyk said:


> Did you try running the Latency Checker app again to see what else is creating large numbers of DPC counts?









Hey guys, so basically I was checking on my reliability history and these were the results, as you can see I have this blue screen problem almost every single day. And everytime I type to show additional information about the problem, no matter what the day is, they always give me this code: AV_WdFilter!MpAsyncScanEnqueue. Do you guys know what it is? And it says something about Memory Compartment Id.


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## Mussels (Apr 15, 2021)

antivirus word filter - what antivirus are you running?


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## Lkzz (Apr 15, 2021)

Mussels said:


> antivirus word filter - what antivirus are you running?


Just the default microsoft defender, why?


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## Mussels (Apr 15, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Just the default microsoft defender, why?


because thats what the code says
AV_WdFilter!MpAsyncScanEnqueue

that sounds like somethings up with your antivirus, install malwarebytes and see if it finds anything


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 15, 2021)

Mussels said:


> because thats what the code says
> AV_WdFilter!MpAsyncScanEnqueue
> 
> that sounds like somethings up with your antivirus, install malwarebytes and see if it finds anything


okay I will do that


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Apr 15, 2021)

Mussels said:


> because thats what the code says
> AV_WdFilter!MpAsyncScanEnqueue
> 
> that sounds like somethings up with your antivirus, install malwarebytes and see if it finds anything



I think Mussels is on to something.  Might be worth disabling Windows Defender Real-time protection to see if there's any effect on the input lag.


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## Lkzz (Apr 15, 2021)

weekendgeek said:


> I think Mussels is on to something.  Might be worth disabling Windows Defender Real-time protection to see if there's any effect on the input lag.


Alright, but besides that I have the problem with the BSOD, which even with the Windows defender diactivated, it still happening. But tomorrow I will try to use the Malwarebytes and see if without the windows defender the lag stops. Thanks!


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## Mussels (Apr 15, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Alright, but besides that I have the problem with the BSOD, which even with the Windows defender diactivated, it still happening. But tomorrow I will try to use the Malwarebytes and see if without the windows defender the lag stops. Thanks!


you have more than one problem, and you're jumping ahead so fast you're not thoroughly testing things.

Theres so many things going on here - antivirus errors, lag spikes, BSOD's, a failing hard drive and honestly probably other things i've forgotten in the 7 pages of this.
Find one problem, follow it through to its conclusion: in this case we found an error with antivirus, so you check for viruses and change antivirus. It may not solve your lag, it certainly wont solve your failing mechanical drive - but it still needs to be done completely and thoroughly as one step amongst many, or you'll never find all the problems.


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## Lkzz (Apr 15, 2021)

Mussels said:


> you have more than one problem, and you're jumping ahead so fast you're not thoroughly testing things.
> 
> Theres so many things going on here - antivirus errors, lag spikes, BSOD's, a failing hard drive and honestly probably other things i've forgotten in the 7 pages of this.
> Find one problem, follow it through to its conclusion: in this case we found an error with antivirus, so you check for viruses and change antivirus. It may not solve your lag, it certainly wont solve your failing mechanical drive - but it still needs to be done completely and thoroughly as one step amongst many, or you'll never find all the problems.


Ok, I will search for this virus problem today


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## Vayra86 (Apr 15, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> I’m sorry, but I don’t get it, what do you want me to do? I didn’t run any tested on another PC, because this problem usually happens while I’m playing. And yes, it’s something constant. I made all the updates (Chipset drivers, windows, NVIDIA, ethernet). I was thinking that maybe the problem is related to my mouse, but I really doubt that, and others peripherals such as keyboard and other stuff doesn’t make any sense. About the cable, what do you think could be the problem? Also energy I don’t think it’s related to my problem. I can try to run some tests without Discord that if I’m not mistaken, it’s the only “software” that I use.



((You don't get it, or you don't want to. Just one sentence later you're describing and casually discarding everything I've told you to do. Re-read, and do the work, or live with latency. Build up step by step and yes this includes peripherals. Something was overlooked, and this puzzle is yours to solve.))

--EDIT: I see three pages on we're getting somewhere. Great!

But that baseline of performance is still a thing. If what you're experiencing is simply 'the norm' then you might be looking for a problem that doesn't exist.

Reading more my impression is that you haven't gone back to zero, but you're still messing with your setup 'as is'. Its a needle in a haystack that way, and you seem to be having some leftover needles around too. Very hard to get the problem fixed that way.

Much more effective: Clean install your OS, connect only a basic USB 2.0 mouse and keyboard and configure them as basic input devices (windows driver). No other peripherals. Test for latency.
Then add a game installation you know has (had?) issues. Test again for latency.

And so on, until you're back to the configuration and situation you desire.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 15, 2021)

Vayra86 said:


> ((You don't get it, or you don't want to. Just one sentence later you're describing and casually discarding everything I've told you to do. Re-read, and do the work, or live with latency. Build up step by step and yes this includes peripherals. Something was overlooked, and this puzzle is yours to solve.))
> 
> --EDIT: I see three pages on we're getting somewhere. Great!


Man like you said we've done so much since this last message. We already discarted the memorys (I used MemTest86 and didn't show any errors), and also the HDD the was malfunctioning I discconected it, but still with the BSOD and the lag problem. When I went to my realibility history it gives me an error, according to the guys is related to my antivirus, which is the default Windows Defender. They toldl me to diactivate it and see if the problem persists. And yes, I've done that and the problem still happening. Sorry for being so impatient, but this errors are freaking me out for about a month now, I don't know what else to do. But like I said, even with the Windows defender off, I still have this lag on CSGO and the BSOD. What else can I do now? Maybe some tests about the other parts? Like the GPU and Motherboard


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## Vayra86 (Apr 15, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Man like you said we've done so much since this last message. We already discarted the memorys (I used MemTest86 and didn't show any errors), and also the HDD the was malfunctioning I discconected it, but still with the BSOD and the lag problem. When I went to my realibility history it gives me an error, according to the guys is related to my antivirus, which is the default Windows Defender. They toldl me to diactivate it and see if the problem persists. And yes, I've done that and the problem still happening. Sorry for being so impatient, but this errors are freaking me out for about a month now, I don't know what else to do. But like I said, even with the Windows defender off, I still have this lag on CSGO and the BSOD. What else can I do now? Maybe some tests about the other parts? Like the GPU and Motherboard



I wouldn't directly look at the hardware other than storage. GPU, board, CPU are the last offenders I'd suspect, since you do have decent performance otherwise and the GPU isn't artifacting or anything like that. Power and storage are hardware wise most likely.

Storage: a faulty SATA cable can kill access times on a disk. I've had that one happen to me once and this will impact latency and responsiveness.
Power: at full (game) load, you can double check your 12V line with software monitor like HWInfo, and see if you're within ATX spec. If you lose too much voltage under load, this can point at problems with power.

If BSODs and 'random issues' occur out of the blue (lol), its often a sign of degradation. Unstable overclock, degradation of capacitors in power supply or on board(s), or cables gone bad.


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## Lkzz (Apr 15, 2021)

Vayra86 said:


> I wouldn't directly look at the hardware other than storage. GPU, board, CPU are the last offenders I'd suspect, since you do have decent performance otherwise and the GPU isn't artifacting or anything like that. Power and storage are hardware wise most likely.
> 
> Storage: a faulty SATA cable can kill access times on a disk. I've had that one happen to me once and this will impact latency and responsiveness.
> Power: at full (game) load, you can double check your 12V line with software monitor like HWInfo, and see if you're within ATX spec. If you lose too much voltage under load, this can point at problems with power.
> ...


Okay I will install HWInfo again and run some tests while I'm playing, but this lag is kinda funny, because like I said before, it seems to happen only while I'm playing CSGO. And about this BSOD they occur like you said, out of the blue. On my last computer I had a 1080, which is know to be very hot, so sometimes while playing COD, it could reach almost 90ºC, so I expect that this BSOD on the last PC were caused by the high temperature. But in this new one I don't have ideia. Can you show me a picture of where exactly I need to pay attention to on HWInfo? And I don't have any overclock, I will check for the cables but it's really hard to know if any are malfunctioning and if it is, which one.


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## Mussels (Apr 15, 2021)

hwinfo is good because it records min, max and average states

so if you're running cinebench and your CPU tanks to 1GHz for current, you know somethings throttled
Game in windowed mode and look for anything that looks odd, CPU or GPU clocked down with low usage, a temp really high and so on. You're looking at ALL of it, trying to find something out of place.

edit: a good example is leave the system at idle, reset the stats and timer in HWinfo and see if anything is high usage. It all should be really low with nothing running.


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## Lkzz (Apr 15, 2021)

Mussels said:


> hwinfo is good because it records min, max and average states
> 
> so if you're running cinebench and your CPU tanks to 1GHz for current, you know somethings throttled
> Game in windowed mode and look for anything that looks odd, CPU or GPU clocked down with low usage, a temp really high and so on. You're looking at ALL of it, trying to find something out of place.


But does it show the normal or the expected values? The temperature I know what should be, but this part about the GPU with low usage for example, does it say if is something not working properly? Sorry for making to many questions, but I want to be sure that I'm doing the right way so we can discard one more thing, or maybe find the source of the problem and finally end with this, thanks a million for the help!


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## Vayra86 (Apr 15, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> But does it show the normal or the expected values? The temperature I know what should be, but this part about the GPU with low usage for example, does it say if is something not working properly? Sorry for making to many questions, but I want to be sure that I'm doing the right way so we can discard one more thing, or maybe find the source of the problem and finally end with this, thanks a million for the help!



It will not show expected, but actual values. You can post them here for us to analyze and it would help if you describe your usage while doing so. Provide the scenarios that don't perform as you'd want, and also an idle scenario.

We can use the sensor data on 3.3, 5, and 12V power over all lines, along with cpu and gpu usage, voltages and power.

EDIT: And temperatures. Totally forgot


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 15, 2021)

Vayra86 said:


> It will not show expected, but actual values. You can post them here for us to analyze and it would help if you describe your usage while doing so. Provide the scenarios that don't perform as you'd want.
> 
> We can use the sensor data on 3.3, 5, and 12V power over all lines, along with cpu and gpu usage, voltages and power.


Alright man I will try that and after I send the results here, thanks!


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## Valantar (Apr 15, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> But does it show the normal or the expected values? The temperature I know what should be, but this part about the GPU with low usage for example, does it say if is something not working properly? Sorry for making to many questions, but I want to be sure that I'm doing the right way so we can discard one more thing, or maybe find the source of the problem and finally end with this, thanks a million for the help!


GPU usage in games, unless CPU limited, should be 100% or close to it. Anything below 90% indicates some kind of bottleneck.
CPU usage in games is extremely variable, anything from a single thread at a high (but not necessarily max) load with everything else near idle, to stressing a bunch of cores heavily. CS:GO is an older game, so it typically loads less threads, but on the other hand is highly dependent on clock speeds for the same reason - and the higher the framerate, the harder the CPU has to work to feed the GPU.
Note that you need to monitor clock speeds alongside the load %, as both CPUs and GPUs boost dynamically depending on power, thermals, and other factors. Something weird with the GPU driver or firmware might cause 100% load but abnormally low clock speeds, for example.


Vayra86 said:


> Power: at full (game) load, you can double check your 12V line with software monitor like HWInfo, and see if you're within ATX spec. If you lose too much voltage under load, this can point at problems with power.


Is that likely to cause the issues described here though? BSODs with high voltage droop I would understand, but those seem to be unrelated to gaming, and I've never heard of input/processing lag spiking due to a GPU (or CPU) getting too low voltage input. Either the VRM stays in spec and delivers full power, doesn't, but barely, and clocks down to compensate and/or ensure stability, or crashes outright - at least that's how things are supposed to work.


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## Lkzz (Apr 15, 2021)

Vayra86 said:


> It will not show expected, but actual values. You can post them here for us to analyze and it would help if you describe your usage while doing so. Provide the scenarios that don't perform as you'd want, and also an idle scenario.
> 
> We can use the sensor data on 3.3, 5, and 12V power over all lines, along with cpu and gpu usage, voltages and power.
> 
> EDIT: And temperatures. Totally forgot






Am I looking to the right place?




While playing Valorant, I don't know if the results are different, but I don't lag on Valorant




Is that normal? 98% of the CPU?


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## R-T-B (Apr 15, 2021)

Mussels said:


> i may be reading those numbers wrong, i dont use that program... but its given a warning on reallocated sectors and that means a dying disk no matter what


You are, but the conclusion is basically the same.

Drive has hexidecimal 10 relocations, or basically 16 bad sectors that have been relocated.  Not a good sign.

Basically you read the data field in hex form.


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## Mussels (Apr 16, 2021)

Valorant maxes out your CPU? damn.

What i am seeing there in valorant is that you have Vsync off and running at 200+ FPS which can result in tearing...
Are the games with lag issues also running Vsync off?

Your monitor is only 60Hz so its a bit odd to see you running at such high frame rates, they're being wasted and not displayed


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## milewski1015 (Apr 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Valorant maxes out your CPU? damn.


There's gotta be something up with that, that doesn't sound right at all. The first valorant screenshot shows a single thread pegged at 95.7% utilization while only 50.8% total CPU usage.



Mussels said:


> Are the games with lag issues also running Vsync off?


I would imagine so, the last CSGO screen shows 235 fps in the counter.



Mussels said:


> Your monitor is only 60Hz so its a bit odd to see you running at such high frame rates, they're being wasted and not displayed


Technically, even though the monitor can't display all those frames, on each monitor refresh it's grabbing a more recent frame, so reaction time could be slightly improved. If OP isn't getting tearing I don't see a reason to change it, aside from maybe troubleshooting purposes.


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## Valantar (Apr 16, 2021)

milewski1015 said:


> There's gotta be something up with that, that doesn't sound right at all. The first valorant screenshot shows a single thread pegged at 95.7% utilization while only 50.8% total CPU usage.
> 
> 
> I would imagine so, the last CSGO screen shows 235 fps in the counter.
> ...


It'll result in either tearing or judder either way - you need to run an integer multiple of the refresh rate to not get severe drawbacks from running higher fps than the refresh rates. This might be an explanation for what the OP is experiencing - it might be frame delivery variance that gives the impression of "lag" i.e. judder or uneven frame pacing. With a 60Hz display, 120, 180 or 240fps locked is _far_ superior to any floating 200+fps number. A software fps lock + whatever Nvidia's variant of enhanced sync is called should be able to deliver that.

I've never played Valorant, but 100% CPU usage on a single core sounds pretty extreme to me - especially when coupled with that _maximum_ 69% GPU utilization. Something is definitely off there. I can't quite believe Valorant is that poorly optimized given how new a game it is.  And given the low GPU utilization it's not just a high FPS CPU bottleneck either - the GPU is clearly not being fed properly here.

I'd like to see some more screenshots with more relevant HWInfo data (CPU loads especially, including per-thread). A good tip is to use the lower left button in HWInfo to have it show several columns of data side by side, and to hide non-essential ones.

Oh, btw, including a shot of Task Manager from the CPU part of the Performance tab with the graph set to Show Logical Processors at the same time as the HWinfo shots would also be useful, as it'd let us see CPU usage over a bit of time.


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## Lkzz (Apr 16, 2021)

Valantar said:


> It'll result in either tearing or judder either way - you need to run an integer multiple of the refresh rate to not get severe drawbacks from running higher fps than the refresh rates. This might be an explanation for what the OP is experiencing - it might be frame delivery variance that gives the impression of "lag" i.e. judder or uneven frame pacing. With a 60Hz display, 120, 180 or 240fps locked is _far_ superior to any floating 200+fps number. A software fps lock + whatever Nvidia's variant of enhanced sync is called should be able to deliver that.
> 
> I've never played Valorant, but 100% CPU usage on a single core sounds pretty extreme to me - especially when coupled with that _maximum_ 69% GPU utilization. Something is definitely off there. I can't quite believe Valorant is that poorly optimized given how new a game it is.  And given the low GPU utilization it's not just a high FPS CPU bottleneck either - the GPU is clearly not being fed properly here.
> 
> ...


Okay I'll provide that ASAP.



Mussels said:


> Valorant maxes out your CPU? damn.
> 
> What i am seeing there in valorant is that you have Vsync off and running at 200+ FPS which can result in tearing...
> Are the games with lag issues also running Vsync off?
> ...


I'm running all the games with Vsync off, but this lag only happens on CSGO. I didn't notice any tearing results while playing it



milewski1015 said:


> There's gotta be something up with that, that doesn't sound right at all. The first valorant screenshot shows a single thread pegged at 95.7% utilization while only 50.8% total CPU usage.
> 
> 
> I would imagine so, the last CSGO screen shows 235 fps in the counter.
> ...


What do you mean by OP? I don't have tearing problems, like I said Valorant it's pretty normal, just CSGO with this lag problem. And of course, I still have the BSOD problem, but let's try to fix this usage CPU and GPU first, but even after installing the Malwarebytes I still receiving the code "AV_WdFilter!MpAsyncScanEnqueue". Also if you guys really think that the 60Hz television could be causing this problem I can try to save some money and buy one 144Hz, but like I said many times before, I don't think that'll fix my problem...


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## Valantar (Apr 16, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Okay I'll provide that ASAP.
> 
> 
> I'm running all the games with Vsync off, but this lag only happens on CSGO. I didn't notice any tearing results while playing it
> ...


The 60Hz TV isn't causing it, though running floating FPS numbers above 200 on a 60Hz display might cause enough judder for the game to feel laggy. If your game is running at 250fps and your monitor at 60, then you're rendering 4.167 frames per displayed frame, meaning that every ~5 displayed frames your main visible rendered frame will shift 1 frame "forward" compared to the cadence of the previous frames, which while you might not notice visible tearing, will make for visibly uneven motion. If the framerate fluctuates (which it does unless it's locked down) this variance will be bigger, more pronounced, less consistent, and more annoying. It's the kind of thing that is very often not consciously perceptible, but very much unconsciously so. Enabling some form of VSYNC (or better, enhanced sync alongside a framerate lock to a number your GPU can maintain constantly and that is an integer of your monitor's refresh rate) will allow you to check if this is the case. If unlocked, non-synced twohundredandwhatever fps feels laggy, but (driver/software) synced and constant 180fps doesn't, then your "lag" issue is frame pacing judder, not lag. If there's no perceptible difference, then judder is not your problem, and you can more or less exclude a new monitor fixing this (though a faster monitor will definitely be a better experience overall).

Did installing Malwarebytes actually deactivate Windows Defender though? It shouldn't be running at all if Windows recognizes another AV program installed.


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## Lkzz (Apr 16, 2021)

Valantar said:


> The 60Hz TV isn't causing it, though running floating FPS numbers above 200 on a 60Hz display might cause enough judder for the game to feel laggy. If your game is running at 250fps and your monitor at 60, then you're rendering 4.167 frames per displayed frame, meaning that every ~5 displayed frames your main visible rendered frame will shift 1 frame "forward" compared to the cadence of the previous frames, which while you might not notice visible tearing, will make for visibly uneven motion. If the framerate fluctuates (which it does unless it's locked down) this variance will be bigger, more pronounced, less consistent, and more annoying. It's the kind of thing that is very often not consciously perceptible, but very much unconsciously so. Enabling some form of VSYNC (or better, enhanced sync alongside a framerate lock to a number your GPU can maintain constantly and that is an integer of your monitor's refresh rate) will allow you to check if this is the case. If unlocked, non-synced twohundredandwhatever fps feels laggy, but (driver/software) synced and constant 180fps doesn't, then your "lag" issue is frame pacing judder, not lag. If there's no perceptible difference, then judder is not your problem, and you can more or less exclude a new monitor fixing this (though a faster monitor will definitely be a better experience overall).
> 
> Did installing Malwarebytes actually deactivate Windows Defender though? It shouldn't be running at all if Windows recognizes another AV program installed.


And how can I enable this form of VSYNC? And VSync doesn't make the game fell laggy and make framerate drops? And before running the Malwarebytes I deactivated the Windows Firewall. While we're trying to fix this problem, I'll try to sell my monitor and buy a 144Hz. I'm finishing my class, right after it's finished I'll provide screenshots with more relevant HWInfo data and the Task Manager from the CPU part


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## Mussels (Apr 16, 2021)

milewski1015 said:


> There's gotta be something up with that, that doesn't sound right at all. The first valorant screenshot shows a single thread pegged at 95.7% utilization while only 50.8% total CPU usage.
> 
> 
> I would imagine so, the last CSGO screen shows 235 fps in the counter.
> ...


You dont think that Vsync can be related to input lag issues?
We've got one example of input lag free with Vsync off at 300FPS

If OP can stick Vsync on in that title and see what happens, we may have our lag cause... Vsync implementations can be shitty, and its an old 60Hz display that could have more input lag than more modern displays
Edit: Wait, you dont even know what vsync does? Vsync just makes your frame rate match your refresh rate, with its various implementations choosing how to deal with the situation when the frame rate drops below refresh rate. Does it allow any number, but increase input lag? Does it only work by dropping it in half? - the answer is "the game devs choose"
You can then override Vsync with the nvidia control panel choosing Nvidias Vsync, Fast Vsync or Gsync (if you have a Gsync screen)

So at this stage... get your working title, try with vsync on and off. We dont give a crap if its slower (it will be, when you drop from 300FPS to 60FPS) - we need to know if it triggers the SAME input lag as the other titles

And while we're at it, how did malwarebytes go?


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## Lkzz (Apr 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> You dont think that Vsync can be related to input lag issues?
> We've got one example of input lag free with Vsync off at 300FPS
> 
> If OP can stick Vsync on in that title and see what happens, we may have our lag cause... Vsync implementations can be shitty, and its an old 60Hz display that could have more input lag than more modern displays


I can try to turn Vsync on, but everytime I do this, I lost some framerates, but anyway I can try. Just for the record, what is OP? Also I noticed that when playing on window mode the lag is even harder, I don't know if it's because of the difference of the sens, but especially on CSGO was literally impossible to play, while on Valorant I could feel the difference, it was a little harder, but at least I could play.


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## 64K (Apr 16, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> I can try to turn Vsync on, but everytime I do this, I lost some framerates, but anyway I can try. Just for the record, what is OP? Also I noticed that when playing on window mode the lag is even harder, I don't know if it's because of the difference of the sens, but especially on CSGO was literally impossible to play, while on Valorant I could feel the difference, it was a little harder, but at least I could play.



OP means Opening Poster. In this thread that is you they are referring to.


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## Lkzz (Apr 16, 2021)

64K said:


> OP means Opening Poster. In this thread that is you they are referring to.


Thanks mate!



Mussels said:


> You dont think that Vsync can be related to input lag issues?
> We've got one example of input lag free with Vsync off at 300FPS
> 
> If OP can stick Vsync on in that title and see what happens, we may have our lag cause... Vsync implementations can be shitty, and its an old 60Hz display that could have more input lag than more modern displays
> ...


Well about the Malwarebytes I used and it identified about 8 erros, it fixed it, but didn't change anything at all. Okay I will turn the VSync on, but you want me to do it on NVIDIA control panel or on the game? And I dont have a Gsync screen, but I will try to run with VSync on.


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## Mussels (Apr 16, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> I can try to turn Vsync on, but everytime I do this, I lost some framerates, but anyway I can try. Just for the record, what is OP? Also I noticed that when playing on window mode the lag is even harder, I don't know if it's because of the difference of the sens, but especially on CSGO was literally impossible to play, while on Valorant I could feel the difference, it was a little harder, but at least I could play.


Yes, you 'lose frames' thats the point of vsync

all those extra frames are not displayed on your screen anyway... all frames above 60 are discarded, with that screen.
Some people choose to run their systems that way, but it can cause judder, tearing, and makes your system run at 100% while gaming

i want you to try all of the vsync options
In game Vsync on vs off

Then turn in game off, and try nvidias On and Fast options
you need to restart the game for the nvidia options to work, between changes

What you need to do is record your experiences with each setting, write them down for each test. 

Then we'll need you to go to another game you noticed the lag in and do the same thing, and we can find out if a certain setting is the cause of your lag.


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## Lkzz (Apr 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Yes, you 'lose frames' thats the point of vsync
> 
> all those extra frames are not displayed on your screen anyway... all frames above 60 are discarded, with that screen.
> Some people choose to run their systems that way, but it can cause judder, tearing, and makes your system run at 100% while gaming
> ...


Well Valorant is running at almost 100%, so its worth a shot. I don't remember if Vsync was causing Lag, but one of the first options I received was to turn the Vsync off, it certainly cause this "Framerate drops", but I will see if the lag persists. And okay, I will try to run the game with Vsync on and off, and then I will change on control panel, thanks for the help!


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## Vayra86 (Apr 16, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> I can try to turn Vsync on, but everytime I do this, I lost some framerates, but anyway I can try. Just for the record, what is OP? Also I noticed that when playing on window mode the lag is even harder, I don't know if it's because of the difference of the sens, but especially on CSGO was literally impossible to play, while on Valorant I could feel the difference, it was a little harder, but at least I could play.


You SHOULD be losing framerate. When you run your games at uncapped FPS the franetimes will vary constantly so you are never getting smooth frame delivery.
On its own, uncapped FPS shouldnt cause input lag, but it does present maximum (CPU) load and thus maximum power heat and any other process running will have an impact on performance this way.

I would suggest using Adaptive vsync in Nv control panel, OR using a hard FPS cap at say 119-121 FPS (set this in Rivatuner(RTSS) which comes with MSI afterburner.


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## Mussels (Apr 16, 2021)

I would recommend Nvidias Fast Vsync, with Nvidias Framerate limiter set to 120FPS for "esports" level use on a 60Hz monitor for a decently powerful system like Lkzz has

That should give you the best of both worlds with low input latency and your hardware not hitting 100% - but its a complicated setup (it should be always safe with low latency, but theres a chance it could cause issues in some games) and something we should try *after* we find the source of the lag


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## Lkzz (Apr 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I would recommend Nvidias Fast Vsync, with Nvidias Framerate limiter set to 120FPS
> 
> That should give you the best of both worlds with low input latency and your hardware not hitting 100% - but its a complicated setup (it should be always safe with low latency, but theres a chance it could cause issues in some games) and something we should try *after* we find the source of the lag


Okay, so first I will try to play both games with VSync on and off, and then turning the Vsync on and off on the NVIDIA Control Panel. Also provide the screenshots with more relevant HWInfo data and the Task Manager from the CPU part. Sorry for typing this many times, but I just want to make sure and remember everything that I have to do.


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## Mussels (Apr 16, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Okay, so first I will try to play both games with VSync on and off, and then turning the Vsync on and off on the NVIDIA Control Panel. Also provide the screenshots with more relevant HWInfo data and the Task Manager from the CPU part. Sorry for typing this many times, but I just want to make sure and remember everything that I have to do.



Hwinfo gave us the info we needed
1. Your temperatures at 100% load are safe
2. we spotted you were running Vsync off, loading your hardware as much as possible

Right now focus on your Vsync testing, but feel free to leave Hwinfo running and check out the difference in temperatures between Vsync off and on... i think you'll be surprised


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## Lkzz (Apr 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Hwinfo gave us the info we needed
> 1. Your temperatures at 100% load are safe
> 2. we spotted you were running Vsync off, loading your hardware as much as possible
> 
> Right now focus on your Vsync testing, but feel free to leave Hwinfo running and check out the difference in temperatures between Vsync off and on... i think you'll be surprised


Sure, thanks!


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## milewski1015 (Apr 16, 2021)

Valantar said:


> I've never played Valorant, but 100% CPU usage on a single core sounds pretty extreme to me - especially when coupled with that _maximum_ 69% GPU utilization. Something is definitely off there. I can't quite believe Valorant is that poorly optimized given how new a game it is. And given the low GPU utilization it's not just a high FPS CPU bottleneck either - the GPU is clearly not being fed properly here.


Yeah, it's been about a month since I played but I don't ever recall seeing a single core pegged at 100% or close to it on my 2600. It's pretty well optimized from what I understand.



Valantar said:


> Did installing Malwarebytes actually deactivate Windows Defender though? It shouldn't be running at all if Windows recognizes another AV program installed.


I'm not sure it will automatically deactivate Windows Defender. I believe MB's real-time protection has to be enabled for it to even possibly do that, which if I remember correctly is only available in the paid version (although they do provide you with a free Premium trial upon initial installation). That said, you hear horror stories about people having multiple AV programs running at the same time a lot so I'd imagine Windows Defender is still going strong unless manually disabled.



Lkzz said:


> And before running the Malwarebytes I deactivated the Windows Firewall.


Windows Firewall is just a subset of the Windows Defender security suite. You need to go into the Virus and Threat Protection settings and disable those as well.


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## Lkzz (Apr 16, 2021)

milewski1015 said:


> Yeah, it's been about a month since I played but I don't ever recall seeing a single core pegged at 100% or close to it on my 2600. It's pretty well optimized from what I understand.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure it will automatically deactivate Windows Defender. I believe MB's real-time protection has to be enabled for it to even possibly do that, which if I remember correctly is only available in the paid version (although they do provide you with a free Premium trial upon initial installation). That said, you hear horror stories about people having multiple AV programs running at the same time a lot so I'd imagine Windows Defender is still going strong unless manually disabled.
> ...


Yes, that's exactly what I did. And I got the 14 days free trial of the MB. And about the Valorant, is there anything I can do to lower this values?


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## milewski1015 (Apr 16, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> And about the Valorant, is there anything I can do to lower this values?


Hopefully VSync capping your frames will help limit a single core of your CPU getting hammered while playing Valorant.

I did some Googling in regards to the AV_WdFilter!MpAsyncScanEnqueue. It appears WdFilter is the main kernel component of Windows Defender. Windows Update shows you're up to date correct?




And you mentioned you've reinstalled Windows a few times also right? It's installed on the SSD now? (I'd imagine it is since you're still able to use the system after disconnecting the mechanical drive). Maybe try opening an elevated command prompt (type cmd in the search bar, right click on Command Prompt and select Run as Administrator) and running sfc /scannow command.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 16, 2021)

milewski1015 said:


> Hopefully VSync capping your frames will help limit a single core of your CPU getting hammered while playing Valorant.
> 
> I did some Googling in regards to the AV_WdFilter!MpAsyncScanEnqueue. It appears WdFilter is the main kernel component of Windows Defender. Windows Update shows you're up to date correct?
> View attachment 196995
> ...


Yes it says I'm up to date, and it's installed on the SSD, I will try this cmd thing


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 17, 2021)

Results:

Valorant:
VSYNC (Game) off: Playing normally
VSYNC (Game) on: It feels pretty normal,
VSYNC (Control pannel) on: A little bit laggy but I could play
VSYNC (Control pannel) fast: Seems normal too
Obs: I just tested on the practice mode, but it was kinda normal and I didn't lost any FPS

CSGO:
VSYNC (Control pannel) off: Laggy
VSYNC (Control pannel) on: Laggy
VSYNC (Control pannel) fast: Also laggy
Obs: Without any framerates, I played for about 5 minutes with more than 400fps. But still very laggy

Just one question: Do I have to restart the game everytime I change the settings on control panel? Because if I have to then I did the test wrong. Also before I was using the first option on control panel, I was something to adapt to the 3d game settings or something like that.

Can you guys send me the best options for the NVIDIA control panel? I might have to change some of them...



milewski1015 said:


> Hopefully VSync capping your frames will help limit a single core of your CPU getting hammered while playing Valorant.
> 
> I did some Googling in regards to the AV_WdFilter!MpAsyncScanEnqueue. It appears WdFilter is the main kernel component of Windows Defender. Windows Update shows you're up to date correct?
> View attachment 196995
> ...


Also I forgot to say, I used this sfc/scannow command and didn't find any errors...


----------



## Mussels (Apr 18, 2021)

For the nvidia control panel changes, you have to restart the game so you'll need to retest those
Fast Vsync with a 120FPS cap (another setting in nvidias control panel) in CSGO should give great behaviour


what happens from here on is you need to find more games with and without the issue and compare whats the same and different

As an example CSGO is an older title thats much easier to render, so it should be EASIER for the system to run and not harder, making less laggy... so somethings unusual there, and is a clue. We dont know what it means until we get more clues (for example you could find out all the games with issues run DirectX 9, or they're all steam games, etc)


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 18, 2021)

Mussels said:


> For the nvidia control panel changes, you have to restart the game so you'll need to retest those
> Fast Vsync with a 120FPS cap (another setting in nvidias control panel) in CSGO should give great behaviour
> 
> 
> ...


Okay so tomorrow I will retest the control panel changes, and I'm going to install more games on Steam to see if it has the same problems. The problem is that I don't have any similar games to CSGO. I think I will test on Apex Legends and see.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 18, 2021)

test whatever you can, even different game types

see what you can think of that is in common - i made that comment earlier about steam, because if it only happens with steam games it could be the steam overlay


Is there anything like that you have that pops up you can think of? in game recording software, overlays for steam, social programs etc? even that garbage that some motherboards install with 'sonar' software to show where sounds come from


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 18, 2021)

Mussels said:


> test whatever you can, even different game types
> 
> see what you can think of that is in common - i made that comment earlier about steam, because if it only happens with steam games it could be the steam overlay
> 
> ...


Man I really dont know, but Valorant it's not from Steam and it's normal, so maybe you're right. I tested running the game without the Overlay Steam and didn't change anything, but I will make this test again. But I agree with you, now thinking better might be something related to the Steam, and what is this "Sonar software? I've never heard about it. And after we figure this out, I still have the problem about the BSOD that I don't know what to do anymore...


----------



## Mussels (Apr 18, 2021)

one problem at a time, that sonar software shipped with motherboards. it's a way of asking you if there is anything running that might affect things, because without actually being there and seeing the system i cant ask every question - its upto you to provide all the information you can

The BSOD we can solve over time, take a photo of the error when it crashes


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 18, 2021)

Mussels said:


> one problem at a time, that sonar software shipped with motherboards. it's a way of asking you if there is anything running that might affect things, because without actually being there and seeing the system i cant ask every question - its upto you to provide all the information you can
> 
> The BSOD we can solve over time, take a photo of the error when it crashes


Okay I will send a pic when it happens. And how can I know if I'm running this thing here? And it can really cause this lag?


----------



## Mussels (Apr 18, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Okay I will send a pic when it happens. And how can I know if I'm running this thing here? And it can really cause this lag?


well it'd be a running program in your tray and on your screen... only you know this info, not me


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 18, 2021)

One of the BSOD messages right after I started the PC. Also I’m having a problem that is really weird, every time I try to turn off or restart my computer, the screen goes black like if it was off, but all the RGBs on the PC are on, such as the fans that still running. And I received 3 different BSOD codes. Also about this problem I uninstalled the AI Suite 3 and seems to be fixed.

Results now restarting the game after making any changes:
Valorant:
VSYNC (Game) off: Playing normally
VSYNC (Game) on: Didn't make much difference
VSYNC (Control pannel) on: Almost impossible to play and running at 60fps
VSYNC (Control pannel) fast: A little bit laggy, but at least I could play
VSYNC (Control pannel) adaptive (half refresh rate): Running at 30fps, impossible to play


CSGO (With Steam overlay diactivated):
VSYNC (Control pannel) off: Laggy
VSYNC (Control pannel) on: Same as off
VSYNC (Control pannel) fast: Also laggy but a little bit harder
VSYNC (Control pannel) adaptive (half refresh rate): Same as on/off
Obs: Without any framerates, I played for about 5 minutes with more than 400fps. But still very laggy

* I'm installing another Steam games to run more tests




Here's the printscreen with the CPU part @Valantar, if you have any doubts with the parts in Portuguese, please let me know


----------



## Mussels (Apr 19, 2021)

You may be right that it was AI suite (this is the sort of program you should have said was running in the background) (the workaround is to disable virtualisation support of the CPU, apparently)
AI suite stopped the BSODS? AI suite is a good example of something you should have said was installed, as its an overclcocking tool


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 19, 2021)

Mussels said:


> You may be right that it was AI suite (this is the sort of program you should have said was running in the background) (the workaround is to disable virtualisation support of the CPU, apparently)
> AI suite stopped the BSODS? AI suite is a good example of something you should have said was installed, as its an overclcocking tool


Okay, how can I disable virtualisation support of the CPU? And I didn't say anything because I had it installed just to change the speed of the fans, and even after I dinstalled it I still have the BSOD problems, but about the part which I turn off my PC and the fans still running I think it was solved. Today or tomorrow I will try to change my watercooler, I have a Corsair H105 and I bought a MasterLiquid 360L. But I'm pretty sure that this BSOD problems, and maybe even this input lag (Which I need to test on other Steam games) are being caused by something on the SSD or maybe my Power Supply. However, if anyone have another tests that I can make just to be sure, please let me know...


----------



## Mussels (Apr 19, 2021)

you dont need or want to disable that, since you got rid of AI suite (good, its pretty crappy) - you should change the fans in the BIOS.
Damn, you bought a bigass cooler.

i suppose after you rebuild with that cooler, we'll go through your BIOS settings

Watch these videos for the how and why of where to orient that cooler to avoid air bubbles giving you problems (noise, pump dying faster than it should) - ideally top mount it as an exhaust


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 19, 2021)

Mussels said:


> you dont need or want to disable that, since you got rid of AI suite (good, its pretty crappy) - you should change the fans in the BIOS.
> Damn, you bought a bigass cooler.
> 
> i suppose after you rebuild with that cooler, we'll go through your BIOS settings
> ...


Sure man, thanks a lot for the help! Since I bought my Corsair H105 about 7 years ago I wanted to buy something better now, that's why I got this MasterLiquid, I just hope that I don't have any more hardware problems, otherwise I'll have to spend more money, probably on a new SSD or a Power supply.


----------



## walker1989 (Apr 19, 2021)

Hey Lkzz, i have the same issue like you and i tried everything. its really a weird problem, because one day everything is fine, i have a "solid and precise" Aim while playing csgo or valorant and some days its feels delayed. i cant even strafing correctively and its killing me. the monitor is not the issue because i have a benq xl2411z 144 hz. and i tried a 60hz monitor. its also the same issue. please let me know if u find a solution im really in dispair.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 19, 2021)

walker1989 said:


> Hey Lkzz, i have the same issue like you and i tried everything. its really a weird problem, because one day everything is fine, i have a "solid and precise" Aim while playing csgo or valorant and some days its feels delayed. i cant even strafing correctively and its killing me. the monitor is not the issue because i have a benq xl2411z 144 hz. and i tried a 60hz monitor. its also the same issue. please let me know if u find a solution im really in dispair.


Please fill out your system specs TechPowerUp Forums (click that)
We may see something in common and get a clue for both of you, but if you want people helping you specifically you'll need to start your own thread


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 19, 2021)

walker1989 said:


> Hey Lkzz, i have the same issue like you and i tried everything. its really a weird problem, because one day everything is fine, i have a "solid and precise" Aim while playing csgo or valorant and some days its feels delayed. i cant even strafing correctively and its killing me. the monitor is not the issue because i have a benq xl2411z 144 hz. and i tried a 60hz monitor. its also the same issue. please let me know if u find a solution im really in dispair.


Yeah, telling your system specs might help us, but do you have the same problem on Valorant and CSGO? Did you test on other games? In my case it seems like it only happens on CSGO, you may want to read the past pages and test everyting that we did so far, and trust me, we did a LOT of things, that explains why we have 9 pages hahaha


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## walker1989 (Apr 19, 2021)

i just uploaded my systemspecs. normally i play only cs 1.6 / csgo / and now valorant. some days its works fine for all games and i have a consistent aim and movement without delay, one or two days after, everything went wrong.. i have always a smooth movement and a high constant fps while playing so its not related to the fps for sure.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 19, 2021)

walker1989 said:


> i just uploaded my systemspecs. normally i play only cs 1.6 / csgo / and now valorant. some days its works fine for all games and i have a consistent aim and movement without delay, one or two days after, everything went wrong.. i have always a smooth movement and a high constant fps while playing so its not related to the fps for sure.


Hmm we may need more information and some tests like CPU-Z and MemTest86, but input lag usually is something consistent, like someone said some pages before, but are you sure it's not anything related to your internet? My advice to you would be to read all the pages before, and test every solution, and test everything, once you find the error will make it easier for us to help or maybe is something from your hardware. But I would say something about your power supply, but I can be wrong. Try to use the DPC Latency Monitor.


----------



## username.ME? (Apr 19, 2021)

I'm using windows 10 enterprise LTSC Eval and his ram usage is between 1,3 and 1,8

I recommend see videos red settings on youtube (spanish)









i'm using windows 10 enterprise LTSC Eval and his ram usage is between 1,3GB and 1,8GB








 HOW TO OPTIMIZED WINDOWS 10 FOR GAMING, SPANISH


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## Lkzz (Apr 19, 2021)

walker1989 said:


> i just uploaded my systemspecs. normally i play only cs 1.6 / csgo / and now valorant. some days its works fine for all games and i have a consistent aim and movement without delay, one or two days after, everything went wrong.. i have always a smooth movement and a high constant fps while playing so its not related to the fps for sure.


Actually I recommend to you creating a new thread, I still have my input lag problems, but rn we're focusing more about the constant BSOD problems, you're kinda changing the focus here, but I bet that if you read all the pages before you will solve the problem, or at least have a clue of what's causing the problem. And after weeks of testing the problem is happening just on CSGO, Valorant is actually very normal. I'll test later, but maybe something not only with CSGO, but with all Steam games, maybe something related to the Steam overlay or whatever.


----------



## username.ME? (Apr 19, 2021)

Check your state disk with CrystalDiskInfo
(Risk), bad
(Good), Good :v


----------



## walker1989 (Apr 19, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Hmm we may need more information and some tests like CPU-Z and MemTest86, but input lag usually is something consistent, like someone said some pages before, but are you sure it's not anything related to your internet? My advice to you would be to read all the pages before, and test every solution, and test everything, once you find the error will make it easier for us to help or maybe is something from your hardware. But I would say something about your power supply, but I can be wrong. Try to use the DPC Latency Monitor.


i dont think is an internet issue because in offline mode (with bots) i have the same delay. believe i tried every single details in pages before... no success. 
the only part that i didnt change is the PSU ! its possible that i have maybe electricity / voltage issue ?



username.ME? said:


> Check your state disk with CrystalDiskInfo
> (Risk), bad
> (Good), Good :v


already testet good 99% :/



username.ME? said:


> I'm using windows 10 enterprise LTSC Eval and his ram usage is between 1,3 and 1,8
> 
> I recommend see videos red settings on youtube (spanish)
> 
> ...


i tried all this steps. it didnt help


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 19, 2021)

walker1989 said:


> i dont think is an internet issue because in offline mode (with bots) i have the same delay. believe i tried every single details in pages before... no success.
> the only part that i didnt change is the PSU ! its possible that i have maybe electricity / voltage issue ?
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, everything is possible man, but if I were you, I would create another thread and put more detailed information.


----------



## Valantar (Apr 19, 2021)

walker1989 said:


> the only part that i didnt change is the PSU ! its possible that i have maybe electricity / voltage issue ?


Highly unlikely. Both CPU and GPU have their own self-regulated power supply - as long as the input to this (i.e. the PSU's output) stays in spec, they will provide the required power (within a marign of error, typically quite wide at stock settings). Voltage fluctuations from the PSU will stress the VRMs more heavily, and may get bad enough to cause the VRM to go out of spec, but if that happens the system will throttle or crash, not lag (throttling would cause frame rates to drop, not vaguely defined perceptions of 'lag'). If there is a power delivery issue severe enough that it affects performance in some way, that would be visible through other metrics - sustained real-world clock speeds, for example, if the VRMs are overly stressed and trigger throttling - as PSU output voltage itself isn't directly related to performance in any meaningful way. And VRM throttling should show up in monitoring software. Check your VRM temps while gaming (if the motherboard reports them) as well as clockspeeds _while gaming_. Alt-tabbing out of a game isn't enough, as that will cause the system to boost differently. Play in windowed mode with HWInfo64 or similar open next to the game and make a screen recording.


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## Lkzz (Apr 19, 2021)

I changed my SSD, I will install windows and all the stuff like games and steam, and later I will make some tests, if this BSOD stops, is probably something related to my SSD. Then I'll have to buy another one, if even after changing the SSD I still have the same problems, then I bet the problem is with the GPU or my Power supply

Well I did the test on this SSD and didn't have input lag on CSGO and Valorant. I will use it during sometime to see if the BSOD happens, if doens't than I will put back my SSD back and see if the input lag/BSOD happens, if it does, then I will format my SSD and try again. If I still have this problems, than probably is something related to SSD and I'll have to change it...


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## Mussels (Apr 20, 2021)

lkzz and walker1989

both of you have the same issues with very different hardware, but the same issue in the similar games. That leads to software.

Can both of you post screenshots of task manager and show what is in the startup tab and your system tray
You can use TPUCapture to post screenshots here easily

Heres mine as an example, and you can see i've disabled almost everything from starting with windows except logitech and corsair






Despite this, i still have a bunch of programs booting with windows





What we need to see, is what you two have in common


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## Lkzz (Apr 20, 2021)

Mussels said:


> lkzz and walker1989
> 
> both of you have the same issues with very different hardware, but the same issue in the similar games. That leads to software.
> 
> ...


Okay when I change my SSD and put the old one back, old that I mean the one which I'm having problems such as the BSOD and the lag on CSGO, I will provide that information. But while I was using this new SSD I didn't have any input on my CSGO and I played for about 2 hours without any BSOD or that problem when the PC turns off but the fans still running. Today I will change the SSD and put the old back, then I will send this information, and also I'll see if I have the BSOD problems again, if I do then is probably something related to the SSD.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 20, 2021)

I literally just read about a windows update causing lag and stutter issues, let me find a link:
(no, we dont want to see your old SSD. only whats on the new install)

A recent Windows 10 update is trashing framerates and causing games to stutter | PC Gamer

^ try following the instructions there and removing the updates, you could have hardware affected by the issue that most of us do not


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 20, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I literally just read about a windows update causing lag and stutter issues, let me find a link:
> (no, we dont want to see your old SSD. only whats on the new install)
> 
> A recent Windows 10 update is trashing framerates and causing games to stutter | PC Gamer
> ...


Yeah probably is something related to hardware or update, because using CrystalDiskInfo said that it was fine. And how you don't want to see my old SSD? You want me to send what's installed on it and may identify what's causing the problem, on this new SSD I don't have almost anything, expect by Discord, Steam and Valorant. But anyway when I change my SSD I send the screenshot here. Also thanks for the link, I'll read that!


----------



## Mussels (Apr 20, 2021)

If your new SSD is problem free and your old one isnt, you can spend time trying to figure out what program it was - but thats not something to involve the forum in as it will take a long damn time to do that

If your new SSD and its new windows install is problem free, you probably should have made that clear


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 20, 2021)

Mussels said:


> If your new SSD is problem free and your old one isnt, you can spend time trying to figure out what program it was - but thats not something to involve the forum in as it will take a long damn time to do that
> 
> If your new SSD and its new windows install is problem free, you probably should have made that clear


Yes I will try to do that, but you asked for the printscreen, or you dont want anymore? And I used the new SSD for one day without any problem, I'll put the old back and let's see


----------



## walker1989 (Apr 20, 2021)

Mussels said:


> lkzz and walker1989
> 
> both of you have the same issues with very different hardware, but the same issue in the similar games. That leads to software.
> 
> ...


Hey Mussels, here is a screenshot from my autostart


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## Lkzz (Apr 20, 2021)

walker1989 said:


> Hey Mussels, here is a screenshot from my autostart


I will send mine later, but if I'm not wrong the only things we have in common are Steam and Vanguard, maybe Itunes, but if I'm not mistaken I deleted it. Also I will try to do what Mussels said before about the Windows update, you should check it out, see if that helps, because it seems like it's describing your problem.


----------



## Gaojibao (Apr 20, 2021)

Did you change your apartment/house recently?


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## Lkzz (Apr 20, 2021)

Gaojibao said:


> Did you change your apartment/house recently?


Who? @walker1989 or me? Because I didn't, I've been living here for about 5 years now.


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## Gaojibao (Apr 20, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Who? @walker1989 or me? Because I didn't, I've been living here for about 5 years now.


Your post reminded me of this 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/bafhfe


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## Lkzz (Apr 21, 2021)

Mussels said:


> lkzz and walker1989
> 
> both of you have the same issues with very different hardware, but the same issue in the similar games. That leads to software.
> 
> ...





There you go. The only ones activated are ReimageApp, SetupRST and the Vanguard


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Apr 21, 2021)

Try autostart from windowssysinternals incase somthings hiding


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## Lkzz (Apr 21, 2021)

Isaac` said:


> Try autostart from windowssysinternals incase somthings hiding


What's that?


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Apr 21, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> What's that?











						Sysinternals Suite - Sysinternals
					

The Windows Sysinternals troubleshooting Utilities have been rolled up into a single suite of tools.



					docs.microsoft.com
				



download it extract it and run autoruns look for anything that looks wrong


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## Lkzz (Apr 21, 2021)

Isaac` said:


> Sysinternals Suite - Sysinternals
> 
> 
> The Windows Sysinternals troubleshooting Utilities have been rolled up into a single suite of tools.
> ...


Hmmm okay, thanks!


----------



## Mussels (Apr 21, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> What's that?


it shows things task manager may be missing, its a legit program and worth a shot

I see nothing in common between you two users, and i see nothing wrong either (no obvious malware, etc)  - the foreign language is throwing me off but the program names are fortunately familiar


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 21, 2021)

Mussels said:


> it shows things task manager may be missing, its a legit program and worth a shot
> 
> I see nothing in common between you two users, and i see nothing wrong either (no obvious malware, etc)  - the foreign language is throwing me off but the program names are fortunately familiar


Okay I'll try this, and the only thing in common is Vanguard, also Cortana but mine is desactivated



Mussels said:


> it shows things task manager may be missing, its a legit program and worth a shot
> 
> I see nothing in common between you two users, and i see nothing wrong either (no obvious malware, etc)  - the foreign language is throwing me off but the program names are fortunately familiar


I'm having some stutter problems on Valorant, but I don't have any of this updates described on https://www.pcgamer.com/au/a-recent...hing-framerates-and-causing-games-to-stutter/


----------



## walker1989 (Apr 21, 2021)

Gaojibao said:


> Your post reminded me of this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i just bought yesterday a new gaming psu 700W (the last thing that i d'idnt change since upgrade). Fortunately i see no difference! i started to play well for about 2 matches valorant, and after that, this weird mousemovement delay begann again.....do you think really that's can be a whole electricity problem :/ :/ i started again to play during the corona beginn (i played from 2002 until 2015 and started in mid 2019 again ), and i leave in this appartment since 3 years. so i cannot compare with my old appartment. i will try to test everything by a friend! i hope it will not be the problem. Best regards



Lkzz said:


> Hmmm okay, thanks!


i tried sysinternasuites. its a long list. i can't make a screenshot. can you open this auto run file ?


----------



## Mussels (Apr 21, 2021)

No... his weird post about electricity was basically a made up story, the guy himself says in an edit it didnt work.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 22, 2021)

Hey guys, so today I installed the watercooler and put the old SSD back, by now, I didn't have any problems including the BSOD or the fans running after turning the PC off. I will install AI Suite 3 again and see if something happens. Also, I forgot to test CSGO, but if still has the input lag, then is probably something related to Steam games or even CSGO, because my Valorant is totally normal.


----------



## fullinfusion (Apr 22, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Hey guys, so today I installed the watercooler and put the old SSD back, by now, I didn't have any problems including the BSOD or the fans running after turning the PC off. I will install AI Suite 3 again and see if something happens. Also, I forgot to test CSGO, but if still has the input lag, then is probably something related to Steam games or even CSGO, because my Valorant is totally normal.


To be honest I'd leave AI suite alone and not install it.. That software causes more issues then you can think of.


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 22, 2021)

fullinfusion said:


> To be honest I'd leave AI suite alone and not install it.. That software causes more issues then you can think of.


It's because everytime I play Valorant or any game, I put the fans on fast speed mode, and without AI Suite 3 I'll have to enter on BIOS every single time before and after playing...



walker1989 said:


> i just bought yesterday a new gaming psu 700W (the last thing that i d'idnt change since upgrade). Fortunately i see no difference! i started to play well for about 2 matches valorant, and after that, this weird mousemovement delay begann again.....do you think really that's can be a whole electricity problem :/ :/ i started again to play during the corona beginn (i played from 2002 until 2015 and started in mid 2019 again ), and i leave in this appartment since 3 years. so i cannot compare with my old appartment. i will try to test everything by a friend! i hope it will not be the problem. Best regards
> 
> 
> i tried sysinternasuites. its a long list. i can't make a screenshot. can you open this auto run file ?


Actually I installed it, but I don't have idea how this works, it's a long list with a lot of exec files, but I don't know what do I have to do, if you learned or if anyone knows please tell me.


----------



## Frick (Apr 22, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> It's because everytime I play Valorant or any game, I put the fans on fast speed mode, and without AI Suite 3 I'll have to enter on BIOS every single time before and after playing...



Why?


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 22, 2021)

Frick said:


> Why?


Because if I don't, my PC goes very hot, about 60ºC, then I prefer to put on the Fast speed mode


----------



## Mussels (Apr 22, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Because if I don't, my PC goes very hot, about 60ºC, then I prefer to put on the Fast speed mode


60C is not hot

set up a fan curve in the BIOS, thats what its there for


----------



## Lkzz (Apr 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> 60C is not hot
> 
> set up a fan curve in the BIOS, thats what its there for


Basically the same things on BIOS are on AI Suite 3, and it may not be the that hot, but it was on Turbo mode (one before the Fast speed) and yesterday was really cold here, about 14ºC, so imagine if it was a hot day, the CPU temperature would be about 65-70ºC. I wish I could set a config on BIOS where everytime I enter on a game, the fans starts to run faster, is there anyway I can do that? Otherwise I think the best solution would be use the AI Suite 3.


----------



## Frick (Apr 22, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Basically the same things on BIOS are on AI Suite 3, and it may not be the that hot, but it was on Turbo mode (one before the Fast speed) and yesterday was really cold here, about 14ºC, so imagine if it was a hot day, the CPU temperature would be about 65-70ºC. I wish I could set a config on BIOS where everytime I enter on a game, the fans starts to run faster, is there anyway I can do that? Otherwise I think the best solution would be use the AI Suite 3.



That's still not hot.


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## Lkzz (Apr 22, 2021)

Frick said:


> That's still not hot.


Are u sure? Because on my "old computer" like I said on literally the first page, I had a BSOD problem related to high temperature, but if you guys are saying. I will uninstall the AI Suite 3 and run some tests on CSGO and during some days to see if the Input lag and the BSOD problems stopped. If yes, I don't have idea what was causing the problem, cause I literally just changed my SSD to run some tests, and change my watercooler. Also I turned off the HDD that was malfunctioning , but that was last week and I even after that I was having the same problems. @walker1989 I think that your problem is a little bit different than mine, I think you should open a new thread and give more detailed information so we can help. Of course I'm not sure if I solved my problem yet, but I believe we're very close.


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## Valantar (Apr 22, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Are u sure? Because on my "old computer" like I said on literally the first page, I had a BSOD problem related to high temperature, but if you guys are saying. I will uninstall the AI Suite 3 and run some tests on CSGO and during some days to see if the Input lag and the BSOD problems stopped. If yes, I don't have idea what was causing the problem, cause I literally just changed my SSD to run some tests, and change my watercooler. Also I turned off the HDD that was malfunctioning , but that was last week and I even after that I was having the same problems. @walker1989 I think that your problem is a little bit different than mine, I think you should open a new thread and give more detailed information so we can help. Of course I'm not sure if I solved my problem yet, but I believe we're very close.


Silicon handles temperatures around 100°C just fine. AMD's GPUs have 110°C max junction temperatures, Intel CPUs have something similar. Chips might clock higher and leak less current (i.e. run more efficiently) at lower temperatures, but the differences are very small, and these things are handled automatically by the chips, and need zero user intervention. AMD chips have set maximum thermal limits that they will clock down (and potentially throttle, i.e. go below base clock) if they exceed, but you are nowhere near those, and even running pegged at those limits is entirely unproblematic - the reason for the limits is that these are safe temperatures for constant loads. Most laptops run at or near 100°C under any type of load.

60°C, especially for a CPU (GPUs are easier to cool at the same power draw) is quite cool. 70°C is entirely unproblematic. 80°C is getting warm, but still fine in every way.


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## Lkzz (Apr 22, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Silicon handles temperatures around 100°C just fine. AMD's GPUs have 110°C max junction temperatures, Intel CPUs have something similar. Chips might clock higher and leak less current (i.e. run more efficiently) at lower temperatures, but the differences are very small, and these things are handled automatically by the chips, and need zero user intervention. AMD chips have set maximum thermal limits that they will clock down (and potentially throttle, i.e. go below base clock) if they exceed, but you are nowhere near those, and even running pegged at those limits is entirely unproblematic - the reason for the limits is that these are safe temperatures for constant loads. Most laptops run at or near 100°C under any type of load.
> 
> 60°C, especially for a CPU (GPUs are easier to cool at the same power draw) is quite cool. 70°C is entirely unproblematic. 80°C is getting warm, but still fine in every way.


Okay then, but I thought that with this Masterliquid 360L on a cold day shoud be less than 60ºC, but alright...


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## Valantar (Apr 22, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Okay then, but I thought that with this Masterliquid 360L on a cold day shoud be less than 60ºC, but alright...


CPUs are difficult to cool due to their high thermal density (the actual cores that consume the vast majority of power are _really_ small) plus the relative inefficiency of having an IHS rather than doing direct-die cooling. Compared to a GPUs, where the heat load is distributed evenly across nearly the entire die and the cooler contacts the die directly, you'll see much lower load temperatures on a GPU with the same level of cooling. That's why overclocked 150-250W CPUs need bonkers cooling yet OC'd 400W GPUs can get away with a 240mm rad (or even a 120 in a pinch, like the Fury X). In my water loop, my CPU (5800X) can spike up to above 70°C depending on the load, but my GPU barely ever breaks 40 - yet the GPU is _after_ the CPU in the loop, so theoretically it should be getting heated up by the water coming off the CPU. (It's worth mentioning that my CPU block isn't particularly good though.) I could get things a bit cooler, but I prefer to run my fans as quietly as possible, and none of the thermals worry me whatsoever.

But tl;dr: keeping any moderately high power draw CPU below 60°C under all-core loads is nearly impossible.


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## Lkzz (Apr 22, 2021)

Valantar said:


> CPUs are difficult to cool due to their high thermal density (the actual cores that consume the vast majority of power are _really_ small) plus the relative inefficiency of having an IHS rather than doing direct-die cooling. Compared to a GPUs, where the heat load is distributed evenly across nearly the entire die and the cooler contacts the die directly, you'll see much lower load temperatures on a GPU with the same level of cooling. That's why overclocked 150-250W CPUs need bonkers cooling yet OC'd 400W GPUs can get away with a 240mm rad (or even a 120 in a pinch, like the Fury X). In my water loop, my CPU (5800X) can spike up to above 70°C depending on the load, but my GPU barely ever breaks 40 - yet the GPU is _after_ the CPU in the loop, so theoretically it should be getting heated up by the water coming off the CPU. (It's worth mentioning that my CPU block isn't particularly good though.) I could get things a bit cooler, but I prefer to run my fans as quietly as possible, and none of the thermals worry me whatsoever.
> 
> But tl;dr: keeping any moderately high power draw CPU below 60°C under all-core loads is nearly impossible.


Yeah you're right


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## Mussels (Apr 23, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Okay then, but I thought that with this Masterliquid 360L on a cold day shoud be less than 60ºC, but alright...


modern PC's run hotter than old PC's, they're designed to run safely at it

I've got a high end watercooling system on my 5800x here and it runs at 85C in benchmarks, and thats completely normal for it


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## Lkzz (Apr 23, 2021)

Mussels said:


> modern PC's run hotter than old PC's, they're designed to run safely at it
> 
> I've got a high end watercooling system on my 5800x here and it runs at 85C in benchmarks, and thats completely normal for it


Ok then, I just need to run the input lag test tomorrow and use the PC normally during some days to see if the bsod stopped. But I like the result


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## Mussels (Apr 23, 2021)

... those front fans are backwards

in fact all the fans are weird, wth


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## milewski1015 (Apr 23, 2021)

Mussels said:


> ... those front fans are backwards
> 
> in fact all the fans are weird, wth


back to front airflow? must be the new trend with the hipsters haha

rad fans upside down? can't tell because they blend in


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## Toothless (Apr 23, 2021)

Watch this entire thing be a fan orientation issue all along. 

OP, you might wanna check how everything is pushing air.


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## Lkzz (Apr 23, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Watch this entire thing be a fan orientation issue all along.
> 
> OP, you might wanna check how everything is pushing air.


I know how everything it's working, I can't explain how cause it's a little bit complicated, but I don't have any problems with that. My problems are the BSOD and the input lag, nothing to do with the fan orientation, also I'll test and see if the same lag persists on CSGO. We're literally focusing on the wrong think, I just wanted to show how the final result look.


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## Mussels (Apr 23, 2021)

Yeah, that weird fan orientation can cause things to overheat like VRMs, RAM modules and so on.

explaining how its working isnt correct... it's not designed to work that way.

Do you have fans on the front of the case? what way are they facing?


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## Lkzz (Apr 23, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Yeah, that weird fan orientation can cause things to overheat like VRMs, RAM modules and so on.
> 
> explaining how its working isnt correct... it's not designed to work that way.
> 
> Do you have fans on the front of the case? what way are they facing?


The RGB fans that you see on the picture are the ones in the front of the case. I have two Cougars on the top and one Macube that came with the case on the back of the case. I know that wrong fan orientation can cause overheating, but my problems weren't being caused by high temperature, and you guys said that the fans running on the Turbo mode, which is not the fastest one, reaching 60ºC is actually normal. I just need to confirm the orientation, because I'm not a home rn


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## Fry178 (Apr 23, 2021)

there are more components than just a cpu/gpu that produce heat,
having stuff not setup properly means it can possibly be the reason,
and until you fixed it, there is no way of knowing if it doesnt.

you want the airflow enter front/low, and exhaust rear/top.
so mount the rad on the top, fans pulling air out of the case, front fans blowing cold air in.
this way motherboard/ram/vrm etc get more airflow, and the lower case temps (radiator is dumping the cpu heat outside the case).

AI suite is some of the worst crap you can use.
make sure to turn off Ai-suite update in bios, and switch on cool&quiet,
setup fan curve to std/normal, no need to run fans on full speed..

unless something else hw, i recommend doing a quick scan with superantispyware and kaspersky virus scanner (no need to get antivirus sw),
and unless something was broken, i only saw (change) in input lag with messed up install (os/drivers), or updates causing it.

i would take the pc offline (unplug Ethernet), leave only the OS drive connected and install win (delete partitions),
then MB/sata/gpu drivers, then a game or two and start testing.
this will show if its related to an update etc..


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## Lkzz (Apr 23, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> there are more components than just a cpu/gpu that produce heat,
> having stuff not setup properly means it can possibly be the reason,
> and until you fixed it, there is no way of knowing if it doesnt.
> 
> ...


Well when I changed my SSD, I only installed the Steam, Games and Geforce experience. And I didn't have any problem at all. And now after putting the old SSd back and the new Watercooler, I've been using the PC for about 3 days without any problem. Now I have to do some test on CSGO and check if the input lag stopped, but the BSOD and the pc turning off didn't happen since monday. I used Malwarebytes and didn't find any problem, I'll check if I still have this problem, if I do, then I can use Kaspersky and Superantispyware. About the airflow, I don't think is a problem at all. The only problem about the thing you said is to exhaust on top, but my desk it's not so big, and as you can see the case is just a little below the table, that's why I prefer to exhaust on front or the back of the case. But if you guys think it's a problem then I can change later, but not rn...


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## Toothless (Apr 23, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Well when I changed my SSD, I only installed the Steam, Games and Geforce experience. And I didn't have any problem at all. And now after putting the old SSd back and the new Watercooler, I've been using the PC for about 3 days without any problem. Now I have to do some test on CSGO and check if the input lag stopped, but the BSOD and the pc turning off didn't happen since monday. I used Malwarebytes and didn't find any problem, I'll check if I still have this problem, if I do, then I can use Kaspersky and Superantispyware. About the airflow, I don't think is a problem at all. The only problem about the thing you said is to exhaust on top, but my desk it's not so big, and as you can see the case is just a little below the table, that's why I prefer to exhaust on front or the back of the case. But if you guys think it's a problem then I can change later, but not rn...


At this point, the more normalized your build is to standard, the easier it is to help figure out what's wrong. An overheating VRM can cause issues too.


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## Lkzz (Apr 23, 2021)

Toothless said:


> At this point, the more normalized your build is to standard, the easier it is to help figure out what's wrong. An overheating VRM can cause issues too.


What is the highest temperature it can reach without being consider as overheating? I will play some Valorant and maybe do some livestreams today and I can tell you guys what is the highest point it reached.


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## Toothless (Apr 23, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> What is the highest temperature it can reach without being consider as overheating? I will play some Valorant and maybe do some livestreams today and I can tell you guys what is the highest point it reached.


Personally, I've had different temps do different things. Some people say different things and it gets confusing after a bit.

I'd have intake front, exhaust top and back per standard, and go from there so it removes that factor. Tried and true.

No one here will bash how you build it. This is all a learning experience for old and new. Some builds need some weird love, like I've got one where all but the top are intake since the radiators are on top and the case has vent panels.


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## Fry178 (Apr 24, 2021)

i suspect temp issues coming from ram, possibly even before the vrms.

its not so much about what we like or not, but excluding things.
the less things are "different", the easier it is to spot the cause.
and as long as  the rad heat is not blown inside the case, it should be ok for now,
but cold air stays at the bottom, so the lower  your air intake, the colder the air,
especially if the case sits on the floor.


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## Valantar (Apr 24, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> i suspect temp issues coming from ram, possibly even before the vrms.
> 
> its not so much about what we like or not, but excluding things.
> the less things are "different", the easier it is to spot the cause.
> ...


Why would there be thermal issues with the RAM? DIMMs consume 1-2W at normal clocks and voltages, and we have no reason to suspect the OP is running their RAM at extreme voltages. Corsair Dominator DIMMs also have more than sufficient heatsinks. Heck, 1.35V DDR4 doesn't need heatsinks at all. The only situations I've heard of modern RAM causing issues due to thermals is with people pushing Samsung B-die to very high clocks at >1.5V, and even then most people report success running bare sticks (no heatsinks) with a fan blowing across them).

As for the OP's airflow layout, it's rather weird (and _massively_ negative pressure given that both the top and front fans are exhausts), but it's probably fine overall. The worst offender, though, is that sole top intake fan, which will mostly be taking in hot air exhausted by its neighbours. Which ... no. Just no. Adjacent fans need to blow in the same direction. All fans on any single surface should be working together, not against each other. If you want your front RGB fans as exhausts, that's fine overall, but make sure there is sufficient air intake to make up for it. Make all your top fans intakes, or just remove them outright and let the radiator fans pull in the air they need. Fans at the rear/top rear are useful for ensuring airflow over the CPU socket area, VRMs and RAM, but the two front fans can probably be removed outright.

I still don't think this is enough to cause issues (again, unless the OP is running some extreme CPU OC it's unlikely that the VRMs come anywhere close to their ~120°C tolerance), but it's definitely a weird layout.


Btw, the main reason for the conventional airflow path being in through the front, out through the top/rear has nothing to do with either a front exhaust not working or this somehow being better alingned with convection (even the weakest fan will overpower any convection 100% of the time), but with the simple fact that the front of the PC is typically oriented towards the user, and having anywhere from 150W to 5-600W of heat exhausted towards you while sitting at your PC is pretty damn uncomfortable. Rear/upwards airflow allows the hot air to diffuse into the ambient air without directly hitting the user first.


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## Mussels (Apr 24, 2021)

My rams running at 55C here just because the GPU is dumping heat onto the sticks, WITH a fan on them
it's something to consider, and we're seeing a system with weird issues

since he replaced the cooler things got better, so its something he changed that fixed it... and the weird fan setup might well be part of that


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## Valantar (Apr 24, 2021)

Mussels said:


> My rams running at 55C here just because the GPU is dumping heat onto the sticks, WITH a fan on them
> it's something to consider, and we're seeing a system with weird issues
> 
> since he replaced the cooler things got better, so its something he changed that fixed it... and the weird fan setup might well be part of that


...and 55°C is a problem for your RAM? If so, I would be worried about its fundamental stability, as that is not warm whatsoever. Yes, high-clocked high voltage B-die does like to stay at or below 50°C, but most RAM can handle much, much higher temperatures than that.


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## Lkzz (Apr 24, 2021)

Well I don’t know much about all this temperature stuff, I can study that more, but I really don’t think it’s a problem in my case. And about the input lag on CSGO it seems like it stopped, just like the BSOD and the problem with the fans. I’ve been using it for about a week now without any problems, I’ll keep using it to see if something happens, but if it’s fixed I don’t have ideia what was causing the problem. I was thinking maybe something related to my 1080Ti which has 2 energy cables connected to the power supply, and I was using just one, and know when I was changing the water cooler I decided to use another cable. So maybe that was causing the problem, I don’t know if this can or has anything to do with the input lag, but with the BSOD I’m 90% sure. Also I decided to keep AÍ Suite 3 to check the temperatures, but if I start having any problems will be the first thing I will check. But my friend used it for about 7 months without any problems...


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## Valantar (Apr 24, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Well I don’t know much about all this temperature stuff, I can study that more, but I really don’t think it’s a problem in my case. And about the input lag on CSGO it seems like it stopped, just like the BSOD and the problem with the fans. I’ve been using it for about a week now without any problems, I’ll keep using it to see if something happens, but if it’s fixed I don’t have ideia what was causing the problem. *I was thinking maybe something related to my 1080Ti which has 2 energy cables connected to the power supply, and I was using just one*, and know when I was changing the water cooler I decided to use another cable. So maybe that was causing the problem, I don’t know if this can or has anything to do with the input lag, but with the BSOD I’m 90% sure. Also I decided to keep AÍ Suite 3 to check the temperatures, but if I start having any problems will be the first thing I will check. But my friend used it for about 7 months without any problems...


Wow, okay. Uhm, that's the kind of thing you a) tell people about when troubleshooting, and b) _don't do_. You're lucky (or perhaps not?) that the GPU would run at all with just a single power cable connected, the downside of that is that you've been running that cable (or the PCIe slot in your motherboard) significantly above its rated power delivery. A 1080 Ti is a 250W GPU. Thanks to GPU Boost 2.0 it will stick closely to that limit unless bottlenecked by something else. A single 8-pin PCIe power connector is rated for 150W (6-pin wires are 75W). The PCIe slot can also deliver ~75W, though that's across 3.3V and 12V, with ~65W the actual rating for its 12V rail. That means that with your current setup, if the GPU consumes 250W, one of the two _must_ be out of spec. Best case scenario, it draws the extra power from the power wiring, and the wiring is overbuilt enough for it to be an issue. But that's the best case scenario.

A middle-of-the-road scenario is power throttling, i.e. that the GPU is throttling down due to insufficient power delivery. This can be due to voltage droop, from the GPU sensing that too few power cables are connected, or other on-board sensors. This is especially likely with weak or insufficient wiring, as insufficient wiring will lead to cables warming up, which increases resistance and thus voltage drop over the cable, leading to the GPU getting a lower voltage delivered than it needs. This will cause the GPU to clock down to protect the VRMs and power delivery. It's not unlikely that this is your issue.

It's also worth noting that if your power cables have been running hot over time, the insulation will deteriorate and turn stiff and brittle. This can cause it to crack and create shorts. Check your cabling. It might be dangerous.

Just as an FIY, here are some of the possible worst-case scenarios from a setup overloading the power delivery:
-Burning out the 12V input in the PCIe slot of the GPU, likely killing the GPU
-Burning out the 12V delivery in the PCIe slot of the motherboard, likely killing the motherboard (and possibly taking the CPU with it)
-Melting the insulation on your PCIe wire or melting its connector, whether on the CPU or GPU side. Melted insulation leads to short circuits, which lead to either blown fuses (good-ish), killing your PSU (less good), or a full-blown fire (yes, that's bad).

Some motherboards have unnecessary power inputs for the CPU - any AM4 platform with more than an 8-pin EPS, for example, as getting Ryzen above even 200w is nearly impossible unless you're doing LN2 OC - but GPUs generally want and need all the power connectors on them. If you have an extreme edition GPU with three 8-pin PCIe power connectors but run it at stock it's likely fine with just two, but anything with two power connectors should have both connected. And they should each be getting power from separate cables from the PSU.


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## Lkzz (Apr 24, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Wow, okay. Uhm, that's the kind of thing you a) tell people about when troubleshooting, and b) _don't do_. You're lucky (or perhaps not?) that the GPU would run at all with just a single power cable connected, the downside of that is that you've been running that cable (or the PCIe slot in your motherboard) significantly above its rated power delivery. A 1080 Ti is a 250W GPU. Thanks to GPU Boost 2.0 it will stick closely to that limit unless bottlenecked by something else. A single 8-pin PCIe power connector is rated for 150W (6-pin wires are 75W). The PCIe slot can also deliver ~75W, though that's across 3.3V and 12V, with ~65W the actual rating for its 12V rail. That means that with your current setup, if the GPU consumes 250W, one of the two _must_ be out of spec. Best case scenario, it draws the extra power from the power wiring, and the wiring is overbuilt enough for it to be an issue. But that's the best case scenario.
> 
> A middle-of-the-road scenario is power throttling, i.e. that the GPU is throttling down due to insufficient power delivery. This can be due to voltage droop, from the GPU sensing that too few power cables are connected, or other on-board sensors. This is especially likely with weak or insufficient wiring, as insufficient wiring will lead to cables warming up, which increases resistance and thus voltage drop over the cable, leading to the GPU getting a lower voltage delivered than it needs. This will cause the GPU to clock down to protect the VRMs and power delivery. It's not unlikely that this is your issue.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry for not telling this before, it's because I didn't remember, also when I build the PC I made that way, and only after some months this problems started. Anyway thank you so much for the help, I'll check about the cables, but the GPU seems to be working really fine. Also I'll continue using the PC and see if any of the other problems start to happen again. but it's probably something related to the cable. And @walker1989 could you fix your problem? Now that I "fixed" mine we can help you more


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## Fry178 (Apr 24, 2021)

@Lkzz
you dont wanna swap cables on psus, unless its the same brand and build (corsair doesnt make them).
just having a unit with more/less output (e.g. 650w vs 850w) might have different layout on pins etc,
and you risk taking out hw.
and while i like asus, virtually everyone has had at least minor issues with AI suite (doing things on its own),
that might interfere with your setup.
just because someone has no trouble using it, doesn't mean much,
like there are ppl driving for 50y without a crash, and others have 10 in their first year...


@Valantar
do you KNOW what voltages its running at? do you KNOW temps are on the ram?
when there is an issue, i assume the worst case, until i have info telling me otherwise.

sure good vrms do 120. when they are new (and top quality).
these aren't, and degradation (age) and temps will impact performance, so the limit can easily drop to below 100C,
and with improper airflow a very possible issue (again, until i see temps showing its not).

like most psus these days, this is a single (12V) rail unit, so using one or more cables for the gpu is making no difference (using 2 plugs),
and my 750 has no trouble feeding a 2080S (over 250w draw) with just one.
then again, my stuff is under water and temps (no matter which one) are 30-40*C lower, helping with efficiency.


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## milewski1015 (Apr 24, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> and I was using just one


yeah, as @Valantar said, that’s a big no-no. That could’ve been the issue all along. I guess not figuring that out is sort of on us for not asking about GPU power cables or a picture of the system.



Lkzz said:


> Also I decided to keep AÍ Suite 3 to check the temperatures


Use HWInfo64 for temperature monitoring. If you need fan control, set a curve in the BIOS. I recall you saying you like to crank the fans up when you’re gaming. You could set a fan curve in BIOS linked to overall system temp so when your GPU starts working hard and heating up the entire system, your case fans will ramp up.


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## Valantar (Apr 24, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> @Valantar
> do you KNOW what voltages its running at? do you KNOW temps are on the ram?
> when there is an issue, i assume the worst case, until i have info telling me otherwise.


That's not a bad assumption, but going from the rest of this thread, the OP isn't overclocking heavily. I frankly wouldn't be surprised to find XMP wasn't even enabled. It is of course possible, but I don't find it likely.


Fry178 said:


> like most psus these days, this is a single (12V) rail unit, so using one or more cables for the gpu is making no difference (using 2 plugs),
> and my 750 has no trouble feeding a 2080S (over 250w draw) with just one.
> then again, my stuff is under water and temps (no matter which one) are 30-40*C lower, helping with efficiency.


It seems you've got something mixed up about how voltage drop through cables works. It has no relation to the number of 12V rails in the PSU, but purely depends on the amperage going through a given gauge of wiring. If you're feeding 250W-65W for the PCIe slot=185W = 15.4A@12V through the PCIe cables, there will always be less drop if that power travels through two sets of wiring rather than one. Of course many PSU makers supply cables with two 6+2-pin connectors on just one strand of wiring, which is pretty sad, as it's a really bad way of wiring things up. Whether the 16A in question travel through three or six pairs of wire (for some inane reason the 8-pin PCIe cable only has three 12V wires, with the two extra over the six-pin both being ground) can potentially make a significant difference in what voltage arrives at the GPU end of the wire. If the wires are long, thin gauge, or otherwise poor quality, voltage drop over cables can be significant. Hence why some high end PSUs use voltage sensing wires to compensate for this by measuring the GPU-side voltage and compensating on the PSU side).

As for efficiency, that doesn't matter here - 250W, or let's say 16A, is 16A no matter if your GPU is using it efficiently or wasting it as heat. And if you're feeding your GPU that amount of power through just a single 8-pin, then you're exceeding the spec of that connector. Again, the wiring might be sufficiently overbuilt to handle it, but that's in no way guaranteed.



Fry178 said:


> sure good vrms do 120. when they are new (and top quality).
> these aren't, and degradation (age) and temps will impact performance, so the limit can easily drop to below 100C,
> and with improper airflow a very possible issue (again, until i see temps showing its not).


I've never heard of the temperature tolerance of MOSFETs or chokes degrading over time. The hardware itself might degrade, causing it to run less efficiently (i.e. hotter), or might fail outright, but I've never heard of the actual temperature spec changing. After all, the spec is just a number for "it'll last X hours at Y degrees", and looking at the datasheets of these parts they typically have specs for a wide range of temperatures. And besides, you'd need _really_ shitty VRM cooling to hit >100°C unless you're doing heavy overclocking. We know the OP is not. VRM throttling is of course still a candidate for the core of the issue here, but it seems unlikely. And the OP's motherboard has plenty of VRM cooling for normal operation, and a complete overkill VRM setup - again, unless you're doing heavy overclocking.


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## AsRock (Apr 24, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Personally, if he's getting blue screens and ram is fine, I would check the storage media next with a smart test.
> 
> The one I use (hdd sentinel) is commercial trialware, but the free trial should be good enough to figure out if a drive is failing or not



Actually has the ability to repair too.  Which it was not to long ago a HDD which made the PC crawl as it was that bad that program actually fixed it by just running though the surface scan.  Went from 69% back to 100% ( of course it's not worthy any more but still ).

Which after fixing the  bootsector i was able to get my data from it.

The drive had been sitting around for a good while as i was planing to take the magnets out of it as my old intel 3770 could not handle what ever was going with it,  i just thought i would try it again.








Get a big 24 inch fan blowing inside the PC and see if it's still does it, just keep it like 6 inches away from the PC.


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## Fry178 (Apr 25, 2021)

@Valantar
never recommended to use just one cable, but the fact that my RM750 ran my 2080S without even triggering my "bad/low power" led on the board (while pulling +250w),
meaning the ti should be fine running on one cable as well.
(im just questioning info from someone, giving advice to open a support ticket with driver request,
for higher end hw that came out 4y ago, meaning if the board/drivers would be responsible for the issue,
as this would have been a much more widespread issue, and found/fixed much earlier.
or your recommendation of memtest, which can ran for 2 days and find nothing, when others like HCI found errors within 1h.)

@AsRock
sorry, a pure "scan" will not fix a defective drive, and as OP has a ssd, that virtually makes it impossible to fix/recover by sw,
as storage is random, not (almost) continuously like on hdd.
drives were already tested with crystal disk info, and defective drive disconnected,
and issues continued after, so ...


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## Lkzz (Apr 26, 2021)

Hey guys, seems like the problem is really fixed. Now I've been using my PC for about a week and without any problems. The input lag on CSGO, the BSOD and the problem where the fans still running after turning the PC off. I'm just waiting for some days to see if the problem is really solved. And about the temperature and the fans position, I don't think it's a problem rn. The temperature is about 40ºC while playing with the fans on the Turbo mode, not even the Fast speed. And I really think that what was causing the problem was all this GPU cable and energy stuff. I remember that sometimes when I tried to turn my PC on, after clicking the power button, it used to turn on for about 1 second, then turn off, and after 2 seconds it could really turn on, and for me this is something related to the energy, but I might be wrong, do you guys want me to do any more tests just make it clear?


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## Mussels (Apr 26, 2021)

Lkzz said:


> Hey guys, seems like the problem is really fixed. Now I've been using my PC for about a week and without any problems. The input lag on CSGO, the BSOD and the problem where the fans still running after turning the PC off. I'm just waiting for some days to see if the problem is really solved. And about the temperature and the fans position, I don't think it's a problem rn. The temperature is about 40ºC while playing with the fans on the Turbo mode, not even the Fast speed. And I really think that what was causing the problem was all this GPU cable and energy stuff. I remember that sometimes when I tried to turn my PC on, after clicking the power button, it used to turn on for about 1 second, then turn off, and after 2 seconds it could really turn on, and for me this is something related to the energy, but I might be wrong, do you guys want me to do any more tests just make it clear?


that on/off/on thing is an error with bad BIOS settings failing to POST and kind of important

glad its fixed, but there has been so much important information throughout this you never shared


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## Lkzz (Apr 26, 2021)

Mussels said:


> that on/off/on thing is an error with bad BIOS settings failing to POST and kind of important
> 
> glad its fixed, but there has been so much important information throughout this you never shared


Yeah some of then I thought would be useless for us, because I thought that would be something related to windows, because doens't make any sense the problem envolving energy and just one game having this Input lag issue. And I need to update the BIOS, and haven't since I put the new watercooler, will try to do tomorrow. Also is there any more tests that I can do? I remember someone said on a few pages before, but I can't find it...


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## Valantar (Apr 26, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> @Valantar
> never recommended to use just one cable, but the fact that my RM750 ran my 2080S without even triggering my "bad/low power" led on the board (while pulling +250w),
> meaning the ti should be fine running on one cable as well.
> (im just questioning info from someone, giving advice to open a support ticket with driver request,
> ...


Which bad/low power LEDs? On the motherboard? What do those indicate? I would think a low 12V voltage, which they wouldn't necessarily notice given that the motherboard isn't connected to the out-of-spec PCIe power cable. Voltage drop over one cable doesn't affect voltages on other cables connected to the same source after all. And something not giving explicit errors is not the same as it working properly or being safe long-term. This depends on a whole host of factors (for example PSU wire gauge and length) which we can't know. Adhering to specifications unless you really know what you're doing is thus the only sensible approach.
Also, HCI? What's that?


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## reaglebeagle2020 (Apr 28, 2021)

ive had this problem for as long as i can remember... tried just about every "fix" there is on the internet, most of which work for a short period of time, just to revert back to the lag. ive discovered over the 100 or so "fixes" that its most likely an issue with the game itself. If i play on a new account, the game runs 100x better, hit reg issues are gone, that lag you describe is gone, the game suddenly becomes playable and other players dont seem so inhuman with their response times and aim. its short lived however, if i keep playing on that account, the lag comes back eventually.. ive never been able to isolate what it is that causes so ive come to the conclusion that its done purposely in csgo, much like COD, to give newer players and advantage over older players.. call it leveling the playing field. there's got to be a way through it though, some people never have issues, and pro's don't either. not any more at least... there was a brief period of time when the game came out they were all complaining about it, then for some reason, they just stopped. my guess is valve either flipped a switch on their end, or told them how to set up the game properly. *shrugs, ive given up hope on this subject, many people call it "placebo", and say to just "get good", its 100% not placebo... for some reason the only actual provable thing that's 100% consistent, is when this is happening, i obviously have an extremely difficult killing anyone, but any demo i record is corrupted and wont play back, at all. it only happens to demos i record when the lag is happening, any other time it works great. 

PC SPECS:
i9-7940x
2080ti
32gb 4000 ddr4 ram
m2 SSD
asus aorus gaming pro 7 mobo
benq 240hz 1ms monitor


anyone with any fixes or ideas... pls tell


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## Lkzz (Apr 28, 2021)

reaglebeagle2020 said:


> ive had this problem for as long as i can remember... tried just about every "fix" there is on the internet, most of which work for a short period of time, just to revert back to the lag. ive discovered over the 100 or so "fixes" that its most likely an issue with the game itself. If i play on a new account, the game runs 100x better, hit reg issues are gone, that lag you describe is gone, the game suddenly becomes playable and other players dont seem so inhuman with their response times and aim. its short lived however, if i keep playing on that account, the lag comes back eventually.. ive never been able to isolate what it is that causes so ive come to the conclusion that its done purposely in csgo, much like COD, to give newer players and advantage over older players.. call it leveling the playing field. there's got to be a way through it though, some people never have issues, and pro's don't either. not any more at least... there was a brief period of time when the game came out they were all complaining about it, then for some reason, they just stopped. my guess is valve either flipped a switch on their end, or told them how to set up the game properly. *shrugs, ive given up hope on this subject, many people call it "placebo", and say to just "get good", its 100% not placebo... for some reason the only actual provable thing that's 100% consistent, is when this is happening, i obviously have an extremely difficult killing anyone, but any demo i record is corrupted and wont play back, at all. it only happens to demos i record when the lag is happening, any other time it works great.
> 
> PC SPECS:
> i9-7940x
> ...


What is your power supply? Please fill your system specs information to make easier for us


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## walker1989 (Apr 29, 2021)

guys i think i solved my issue!! i'm playing now since 72h wihtout mouse delay!! let's see if it's really helpful. try to do this steps please, it's may related to the USB 3.0 cable plugged to the mainboard (maybe interference issues) here are the steps: 

bbacks26 said:
YES I DID FIX THE STUTTERING !!!FINALLY!! I feel terrible for not updating this thread, my apologies. What I did that removed all stuttering was a combination of things so bare with me here: a fresh install of windows, unplugged the USB 3.0 cable from my motherboard, set my XMP profile to on and chose the "XMP 2" option in ASUS bios, changed my fps limit on my 165hz monitor from 162 to 163 in Nvidia control panel under "Max Framerate" (this seemed to be a more stable limit for some bizarre reason), completely uninstalled MSI Afterburner and Rivatuner as these introduced stuttering for me, Turned ON GPU Scheduling in Windows settings, turned on high performance power mode, turned off xbox game mode/dvr, and I also disabled all background apps in settings. The difference is night and day. Been dealing with stuttering for 4 months on my new 2k dollar pc and I can FINALLY enjoy it! There is literally 0 stutter now. PLEASE, if my situation is similar to yours, try out these steps. I suggest trying some of the less extreme stuff first (setting fps limit to 163, turning on XMP 2) before going ahead with a fresh windows install. The smaller things might actually be the issue. Please lmk if they helped you!

let me know if the problem is solved. Greats


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## Murilo silvaaaaa (May 8, 2021)

‎Lkzz, did I see that you and Brazilian got the bro? to dying with this i've done everything to almost selling my pc if you tidy warns please i'll be giving f5 here every 1 hour please help me‎


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## Murilo silvaaaaa (May 8, 2021)

this input lag is killing me, when i turn on the pc i get 30minutes normal then i get a lot of input lag if someone resolves, please let me know


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## Valantar (May 8, 2021)

Murilo silvaaaaa said:


> this input lag is killing me, when i turn on the pc i get 30minutes normal then i get a lot of input lag if someone resolves, please let me know


We're going to need _a lot_ more information than that to figure out anything at all. First off, what does "input lag" mean in your case? Does it mean that it takes longer from when you press a key/move your mouse to something happening on-screen? If so, can you share some video, preferably of good and bad cases? If that's not what you're describing, then it's not input lag but something else. Sounds to me like the system might be slowly overheating and thermal throttling, or a hundred other things.


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## Murilo silvaaaaa (May 8, 2021)

mouse heavy


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## Valantar (May 8, 2021)

Murilo silvaaaaa said:


> mouse heavy


....


Valantar said:


> We're going to need _a lot_ more information


Please _describe_ what you are experiencing. In detail. Including which applications it happens in (or if it's everywhere, including the OS?). Also, full system specs, software running, relevant hardware info (temperatures, clock speeds in-game, etc). Without that, it's literally impossible for us to diagnose anything.


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## Murilo silvaaaaa (May 8, 2021)

temperature is normal when I turn on the pc for the first 30 minutes and without input lag, but then it gets too much input lag mouse gets heavy, I play fortnite

I upgraded my motherboard's chipset a little more improved with a lot of input lag


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## Lkzz (May 8, 2021)

Murilo silvaaaaa said:


> ‎Lkzz, did I see that you and Brazilian got the bro? to dying with this i've done everything to almost selling my pc if you tidy warns please i'll be giving f5 here every 1 hour please help me‎


‎I arranged yes bro, it was power problem, my board had two power inputs, but I was using only one achand that would not need 2, so I just put the two cables and a month ago I have no input lag, blue screen and no problem of the genre. In your case it could be the temperature, lower something like MSI Afterburner and checks the temperature before and with input lag‎


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## 95Viper (May 8, 2021)

Please use English when posting... if you need to, use google, bing, or one of the other translators online.

Thank You and Have a Good Day


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## Lkzz (May 9, 2021)

Murilo silvaaaaa said:


> @Lkzz, what are the configs of your pc?‎


Intel I7-9700kf 3.6ghz | GTX 1080Ti | 16GB Ram

Try to use the things that we tested before, this thread has 11 pages, so something may help you, I don’t think seeling your PC is the best choice right now, especially in Brazil where some PC parts such as the video graphics card are really expensive. I know that you’re brazilian just like me, but we need to speak in English here. Try to read the other pages of this thread and see if something can help you, if not, you can try to call me on Twitter (@Lkzzfps) so I can try to help you, but if you can speak english, I’d recommend to send the details here so everybody can help you


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## Fry178 (Aug 26, 2021)

@Valantar
there are gpus for ocing (like the GB Aorus) that have led for (incoming) power, sensing if it doesn't get enough and/or clean power,
and will basically light up.
So when i have an oced 2080S (with binned chip) going up to 2.1, running full load (~600-650w),
all on a 650w psu with 100w less than i really needed (for gpu oc), using just one cable (2 plugs),
and that doesnt trigger anything (on gpu power led), than i can say it will be fine for running a stock 1080ti.

HCI: proper ram test you can boot from dos (and not run under win os),
and wont show stable (oc) when its actually not (TM5/Memtest86/+ etc)
ram tester

@walker1989
sorry, but you didnt "fix" anything:
-ryzen baords are known to have issues with usb
-ryzen/amd is different on ram, so ram now comes with 2 profiles,. xmp being intel/oc, xmp2 for amd rigs that arent able to run xmp #1 (stable)
-in your case, max frame rate is the proper setting, so of course using anything different (prior), was probably part of the problem.
-high performance mode doesnt fix anything, will just increase power consumption and heat
(and as a little tip:  you can set up gaming rigs using balanced and even power savings mode, without stutter while gaming,)

you will probably be better off to dl the latest win release/drivers and do a clean install.
not seen a single pc where turning on gpu scheduling removed stutter that wasn't supposed to be there in the first place.
its to improve stuff, not to fix issues.


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## Lkzz (Aug 26, 2021)

Fry178 said:


> @Valantar
> 
> there are gpus (like the GB Aorus) that have led for (incoming) power, sensing if it doesn't get enough/clean power,
> and will basically light up, when something is up.
> ...


bro, why are u answering this 3 months later? Also the problem is solved, I don't know if there's anyway to close this


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## Fry178 (Aug 26, 2021)

and?
i answer, when ppl have questions, might even help some random person reading posts..
didnt even post my answer with your name in, not sure why you even bother..


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