# Are low cost retailers flogging faulty kit?



## qubit (May 3, 2018)

*EDIT: there seems to be some confusion over how new my iPad was: it was brand new and sealed in its box.*

I've bought a handful of iPads direct from an Apple shop over the  years and they've all worked flawlessly. My friends iPads have been the same so I have a lot of confidence in Apple's mobile products.

A couple of months ago I saw a nice new iPad Pro 12.9 inch, Wi-Fi only, 256GB storage in Space Grey for £870 at www.costco.co.uk. The normal price from Apple is £919 for this model, so a £49 reduction is very welcome. Together with my £20 Costco voucher, 2 year guarantee (Apple only gives 1 year) and standard 3 month satisfaction refund guarantee, it was a bargain, so I bought it.

However, a couple of weeks ago it developed an intermittent fault where the touchscreen will randomly stop responding, anywhere from a second or two, to several minutes, for a random amount of seconds, typically 2-10. It only happens when the room is warm, too. If the room is a bit cold, then it's perfect, so this looks like a hardware problem rather than software, to me. It's annoying as hell and I'm not putting up with it, see below. I've done all the usual stuff such as rebooting it, factory resetting it and updating to the latest iOS 11.3.1, but no difference. In particular, it even does it at the welcome screen after the factory reset, so again, really looks like a hardware fault as opposed to software. Of course restoring the system from iCloud made no difference to this problem, as you'd expect. Finally, I suspect that the problem was there from day one, but it was so fleeting that it felt like I'd simply mis-tapped or swiped the screen. The way it is now, it's obvious that the iPad isn't working properly. *EDIT: the home button still works as normal during these periods and seems to "reset" the screen freezing. It's too fleeting to say for sure though.*

My friend has an identical model and that has never shown this problem or any other, even when the muppet used it in a hot environment out in the bright sunshine that forced it to shut down due to overheating, again pointing to a hardware issue with my one. He's also got iOS 11.3.1 installed on it.

Googling it did find hits of similar problems, but nothing that would suggest a design fault with this model, or an iOS problem. Just a few hits from posts made 6-12 months ago, so I don't think this model is problematic in this way.

Yesterday I called Costco, described the problem and asked for a replacement which will be with me soon. They were fine, no quibbling. Their processes are kind of manual and inefficient (everything is done by phone) unlike Amazon's automated systems, but they get there, bless. Hopefully the replacement iPad won't have this problem, but if it does, then I'll get a refund and buy one direct from Apple again.

And now here's the point of my thread: one of my friends reckons that the cheap price comes with a catch, where the manufacturer will flog not-so-perfect items to them since they're selling them to the retailer for less money. I've never heard of this before and am a bit skeptical, so I'd be interested in your opinions.

Please no Apple bashing/hating/trolling. For the record, I'm not an Apple fan and wouldn't queue up for days outside their store for the latest iPhone or buy their PCs, but their mobile products are really good, so I buy their iPads. I have an Android phone and a Nexus 7 (2013) tablet btw, so I'm not "Apple only".


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## dorsetknob (May 3, 2018)

As long as its covered by apples "Famous Costmungers Service and Warranty"  should be No Problem


qubit said:


> one of my friends reckons that the cheap price comes with a catch, where the manufacturer will flog not-so-perfect items to them since they're selling them to the retailer for less money.


WHAT  and Tarnish their Reputation


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## Vayra86 (May 3, 2018)

Sellers that use refurbished product are nothing new (lol) really and I am guessing you just had an iPad that's already been through a screen replacement. They will and they do try, 9 out of 10 people never notice.

Funny Apple fan disclaimer btw  Is it that bad usually?


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## eidairaman1 (May 3, 2018)

It's possible that your unit had a problem, was returned as open box, they never verified the problem, thus slashed the price due to open box.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 3, 2018)

I very much doubt that, since it's totally illegal in the uk to sell used as new in Any way, even refurbished is marked as such legally, just bad luck imho.


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## jboydgolfer (May 3, 2018)

Many developed countries will have false advertising laws in place to protect consumers.  Generally if you go to apple.com, you can order refurbished devices direct from them, and that's what they do ,they replace the screen, they replace the case, they replace the battery, and verify that all switches and buttons are in perfect working order.  The end product (when done properly) is absolutely indistinguishable from a brand new model, and since it comes from the manufacturer, it even comes in the brand new box ,sealed just like a brand new one (except with a label and the description naming it as a refurbished unit).

I've purchased a couple idevices this way ,and they're absolutely beautiful, but some less than scrupulous sellers might claim "manufacturer refurbished", when it's not actually.  For that reason I only confidently would purchase  direct from Apple in regards to refurb's.  I'm not saying other retailers wouldn't do it right, but they're pretty cheap from Apple when you get 'em refurbished , so i just buy from them

a big issue is that 3rd party retailers, or private dealers, use the term "manufacturer refurbished" as a interpretive term, and not a factual description. Manufacturer Refurb" Should mean it was refurb'd by apple, not refurb'd by some dude in his basement, replacing the same things (As he see's fit) as apple would have. If an item is labeled "refurbished" it can be anything. If it is labeled as "manufacturer refurbished" it should mean exactly that, repaired by the maker of the device. This way of doing business, is exactly why i only buy refurb From the maker of the device, that way i KNOW its done properly, or atleast to their level of quality.


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## rtwjunkie (May 3, 2018)

Q, I think you just got a singular bad iPad on what is probably a less than stellar model.  Even I, an avowed Apple-hater, do not think they or their distributor Costco, would sell you a refurb without you knowing.


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## eidairaman1 (May 3, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I very much doubt that, since it's totally illegal in the uk to sell used as new in Any way, even refurbished is marked as such legally, just bad luck imho.



Its illegal in the US too, it still happens though


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## qubit (May 3, 2018)

Thanks for the responses guys. The gist seems to be that you don't think it's dodgy in any way, which is reassuring to some degree. I still wouldn't completely put it past either Apple or Costco to do something a little naughty if they thought they could get away with it. Just look at the warranty void sticker and memory price fixing scandals. I know I'm only a very small sample size, but the coincidence of the Costco one developing a problem when my friend was suspicious still seems to suggest something isn't right. Dunno, just my gut.

I'm thinking now that I might just ask for a refund and wait a bit before buying a replacement. Although it's very nice, it's still very expensive, even with the discount. I might want the new model coming this year, or get this one at an even bigger discount if I time it right. Dunno, just have to wait it out.

@Vayra86 Oh yeah, I've seen them go at it with the Apple hate, triggering plenty of Moderator Action lol. Things are much better nowadays though and there isn't much Apple talk on here anyway.

If they really did do a screen replacement and flogged it as new, that would be shady as fuck. I doubt they did, but I guess it's possible.

@jboydgolfer It's surprising how much work and replacement parts go into a refurb. Surprising they make any profit on it, really. I had a HP laptop like that once, full mfr refurb and good price. Indeed looked and worked brand new for years until it got stolen in a burglary. At least I got the insurance money for it, but it's still annoying and I still feel violated by those c*nts breaking into my property and taking my stuff. Don't get me started...

@rtwjunkie Yeah, I used to really hate Apple too. Then I was exposed to iPads at work and I saw how well made they were, how nicely they worked and how well Apple patched the OS (usually). Given all this, I can, somewhat reluctantly, accept the walled garden that is the Apple ecosystem.


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## eidairaman1 (May 3, 2018)

qubit said:


> Thanks for the responses guys. The gist seems to be that you don't think it's dodgy in any way, which is reassuring to some degree. I still wouldn't completely put it past either Apple or Costco to do something a little naughty if they thought they could get away with it. Just look at the warranty void sticker and memory price fixing scandals. I know I'm only a very small sample size, but the coincidence of the Costco one developing a problem when my friend was suspicious still seems to suggest something isn't right. Dunno, just my gut.
> 
> I'm thinking now that I might just ask for a refund and wait a bit before buying a replacement. Although it's very nice, it's still very expensive, even with the discount. I might want the new model coming this year, or get this one at an even bigger discount if I time it right. Dunno, just have to wait it out.
> 
> ...



Just get it exchanged, if it doesn't do this, you could of had a defective unit, if it still does, then get your money back.


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## qubit (May 3, 2018)

True eidy and that's what I've asked for. I still kinda want the money is all since I'm hardly rich and I could do with that £850 at the moment so I'ma wavering  It's a pure luxury item for me, with no solid "business case" other than it's convenient and I really like using it. Really awesome for Netflix with that big screen and those speakers!


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## eidairaman1 (May 3, 2018)

qubit said:


> True eidy and that's what I've asked for. I still kinda want the money is all since I'm hardly rich and I could do with that £850 at the moment. It's a pure luxury item for me, with no solid "business case" other than it's convenient and I really like using it. Really awesome for Netflix!



Ok if there are more important things, get the money back so you can partition it to important stuff, later you can get a tablet, possibly for even less.


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## erocker (May 3, 2018)

Your friend is wrong. Apple products break and yes there are design flaws. You should check out some of the phone/laptop repair folks on YouTube. They pretty much have me convinced that any Apple product could explode at any time... Kidding... kind of!


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## qubit (May 3, 2018)

erocker said:


> Your friend is wrong. Apple products break and yes there are design flaws. You should check out some of the phone/laptop repair folks on YouTube. They pretty much have me convinced that any Apple product could explode at any time... Kidding... kind of!


Oh yeah, I remember reading some pretty embarrassing news articles about Apple flaws and how the company sometimes gets all po-faced about it and tries to pretend like it's not happening. The minor battery scandal is a good example. Sounds like Apple had reasonable intentions with that performance throttling, but they weren't exactly forthcoming about it until they were forced to which conveniently helped to sell new iPhones...


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## jboydgolfer (May 3, 2018)

qubit said:


> but it's still annoying and I still feel violated by those c*nts breaking into my property and taking my stuff.



That sucks man, i think id rather eat a dog d!ck sandwich , than have my property burglarized, sorry to hear it happened to you.  The way I look at it, if you catch someone breaking in your home, while you & your family are inside, you should have every right to deal with that person as you see fit (during the act). I live in a hippie ,liberal state ,where you're not allowed to  defend yourself if someone breaks into your home unless they are a threat to your safety/life, but if it happens to me, i dont intend to wait to find out. The way I see it ,if a person is willing to burglarize your home, they've given up any human rights or freedoms that are granted to them.

Glad insurance paid the monetary portion back. I would just chalk up the faulty device to a bad luck buy, dont let one bad item discourage you fro mbuying in the future, unless the seller becomes regularly poor quality, or is unwilling to work with your to resolve the matter.


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## qubit (May 3, 2018)

Thanks jboyd, burglary is nasty, especially when there's violence and injury/death involved. Thankfully, I "just" came home to a broken window, my place messed up and stuff stolen, so none of that really awful stuff for me. I'll give you a proper reply later in pm as it's off topic for this thread. My bad for starting it!


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## eidairaman1 (May 3, 2018)

jboydgolfer said:


> That sucks man, i think id rather eat a dog d!ck sandwich , than have my property burglarized, sorry to hear it happened to you.  The way I look at it, if you catch someone breaking in your home, while you & your family are inside, you should have every right to deal with that person as you see fit (during the act). I live in a hippie ,liberal state ,where you're not allowed to  defend yourself if someone breaks into your home unless they are a threat to your safety/life, but if it happens to me, i dont intend to wait to find out. The way I see it ,if a person is willing to burglarize your home, they've given up any human rights or freedoms that are granted to them.
> 
> Glad insurance paid the monetary portion back. I would just chalk up the faulty device to a bad luck buy, dont let one bad item discourage you fro mbuying in the future, unless the seller becomes regularly poor quality, or is unwilling to work with your to resolve the matter.



God Bless Texas, Castle&Stand Your Ground. Breaking in is automatic threat to life, prepare to be ventilated at that point


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## Vayra86 (May 4, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> God Bless Texas, Castle&Stand Your Ground. Breaking in is automatic threat to life, prepare to be ventilated at that point



Over here in Holland we are supposed to use 'proportional response' in case of someone breaking and entering... So if the burglar smashes a window, I'd consider it quite proportional to smash in a face. Law enforcement doesn't really agree or disagree. Very weird situation over here. A few years ago someone broke into a jewelry store, was somewhat threatening to the owners and owner shot him/killed him... and it was eventually labelled as self defence.

I think regardless of the law in any country its almost a universal instinct kind of thing, defending your home. Honestly if someone would enter mine there are no limits, I don't go into madness mode but the very last thing on my mind would be 'proportional'


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## eidairaman1 (May 4, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> Over here in Holland we are supposed to use 'proportional response' in case of someone breaking and entering... So if the burglar smashes a window, I'd consider it quite proportional to smash in a face. Law enforcement doesn't really agree or disagree. Very weird situation over here. A few years ago someone broke into a jewelry store, was somewhat threatening to the owners and owner shot him/killed him... and it was eventually labelled as self defence.
> 
> I think regardless of the law in any country its almost a universal instinct kind of thing, defending your home. Honestly if someone would enter mine there are no limits, I don't go into madness mode but the very last thing on my mind would be 'proportional'



Its known as self preservation, which here is an Inalienable right.


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## qubit (May 5, 2018)

Confirmed: it’s definitely faulty hardware. Started noticing today that if I pick it up by the bottom right hand corner and am holding it flattish, then it stops responding. Put it vertical and it comes back. Horizontal fails again. Also, holding it at any other point doesn’t cause the problem, even when flat. Finally, it stops being so sensitive after a minute or so, presumably because it’s warmed up a bit. The room is warm too. Seems the slight strain on the chassis is causing a tiny bit of flexing that’s causing this. There’s no visible sign of warping or dents though.

Haven’t heard back from Costco yet, they’re so slow. Come on guys.


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