# Fanless X570 motherboards?



## Joss (Jul 12, 2019)

Any plans on beefy, passive heatsinks? Does anyone know?
Because personally I'm not buying a motherboard with a fan on it  Reasons? Noise, eventual failure and above all: *I don't like it!*


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## TheLostSwede (Jul 12, 2019)

There's only one, the Aorus Xtreme.

Apparently the fans won't kick in on most boards until the chipset hits 60-70 degrees (depending on how it's set up) so it might not be too big of a deal.
I guess I'll know soon enough.


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## n-ster (Jul 12, 2019)

I wouldn't mind so much if the fan was a Noctua nf-a4x10


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## Joss (Jul 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> There's only one, the Aorus Xtreme


argh  I'd have to unscrew all those covers.
The Asus Pro WS X570-ACE looks nice and clean, but there's a fan in there


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## kapone32 (Jul 12, 2019)

The top As rock board is fanless. If you are willing to pay $1000 to not have that premium. There are some things that you could do to mitigate that anyway like choose the right NVME drive or adding active cooling to the area. I would not concern myself with a fan that you can easily replace failing either. Every component in a PC will fail at some point


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## Tomgang (Jul 12, 2019)

Unless its cheap crap fans, fans can last for years. I woulden worry about fan failure unless you have the board for like 8 years or more. I am more worried by fan noise, hornestly. As small fans can have pretty high pitch noise.


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## kapone32 (Jul 12, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> Unless its cheap crap fans, fans can last for years. I woulden worry about fan failure unless you have the board for like 8 years or more. I am more worried by fan noise, hornestly. As small fans can have pretty high pitch noise.



I was reding on a reveiw that the fans are not even loud on the X570 boards and that was on an open test bench.


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## Mats (Jul 12, 2019)

Like I said before, there are third party heatsinks out there.

Yes, I know, you don't want to buy an aftermarket heatsink, you shouldn't have to, but I don't see any other solution. Well besides expensive motherboard models.

Or, buy an X470 if you're not running PCIe 4 speeds.


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## Tomgang (Jul 12, 2019)

Mats said:


> Like I said before, there are third party heatsinks out there.
> 
> Yes, I know, you don't want to buy an aftermarket heatsink, you shouldn't have to, but I don't see any other solution.
> 
> Or, buy an X470 if you're not running PCIe 4 speeds.




It's funny you say x470 and pcie 4. It' s seems that some x470 boards can run pcie 4 but maybe with some limitation. Asus has just liftet some info about it.









						Ryzen 3000: Asus opens up PCIe 4.0 support for selected X470 and B450 boards
					

Despite earlier rumors, it seems that even motherboards without X570 chipset can offer PCIe 4.0 on the Ryzen 3000 CPUs. AMD denied this during computex bit, Asus has now published a list of various X4...




					www.guru3d.com


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## bonehead123 (Jul 12, 2019)

@Joss...

I suggest you try it before you knock it....

As stated above, most reviews have stated that the fan wont even come on until high temps happen.... which can always happen but usually only if:

A)  You are constantly pushing your rig to the max for long periods of time, AND/OR
B.  Your case does not have proper air flow to start with, in which case that little mobo fan aint gonna really help that much anyways

Back in the day, I used some smaller (40-60-80mm) fans on some pre-built rigs to help increase their airflow and they did not add any noticeable noise to the overall system sound even when spinning at full speed.. of course YMMV depending on the quality of the fan itself though......

Hopefully, for the prices of these mobo's, they will include some decent fans, fingers crossed


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## Mats (Jul 12, 2019)

bonehead123 said:


> So friggin HOT but sooooo damned Deadly, you'll need a Hazmat suit and an entire ship load of quantum torpedos to get within 100 light years of her


Are you talking about Michelle or The BIG RED One?


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## londiste (Jul 12, 2019)

What is the deal with these fans anyway? Why did everyone add a fan?

There have been much hungrier chipsets - X58 being a common example - that had passive cooling. Yes, heatpipes and large-ish copper heatsinks but still. Motherboard manufacturers should still have the know-how and capability to use those. Der8auer measured under 10 W power consumption - nicely within claimed 11W - and chipset did not overheat with a small heatsink.

These are 200+€ motherboards we are talking about. Cost cannot be that big of an issue. Even if it is, there are 400+€ and even more expensive motherboards in play but still with a fan.
One has to wonder - was there a misunderstanding somewhere?


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## TheLostSwede (Jul 12, 2019)

Joss said:


> argh  I'd have to unscrew all those covers.
> The Asus Pro WS X570-ACE looks nice and clean, but there's a fan in there


Why, if I may ask?



Tomgang said:


> It's funny you say x470 and pcie 4. It' s seems that some x470 boards can run pcie 4 but maybe with some limitation. Asus has just liftet some info about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They can sort of run at PCIe 4.0 speeds for the first PCIe x16 slot and the M.2 slot from the CPU. However, it's not PCIe 4.0 compliant and AMD won't let any of the board makers claim PCIe 4.0 support. In this case, Asus is doing something AMD told the board makers they can not.


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## bonehead123 (Jul 12, 2019)

Mats said:


> Are you talking about Michelle or The BIG RED One?



Michelle of course....my rig stays at a frosty 23-27c


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## Tomgang (Jul 12, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> I was reding on a reveiw that the fans are not even loud on the X570 boards and that was on an open test bench.



I will sure hope that they are silent.


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## kapone32 (Jul 12, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> I will sure hope that they are silent.



Me too


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## Tomgang (Jul 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Why, if I may ask?
> 
> 
> 
> They can sort of run at PCIe 4.0 speeds for the first PCIe x16 slot and the M.2 slot from the CPU. However, it's not PCIe 4.0 compliant and AMD won't let any of the board makers claim PCIe 4.0 support. In this case, Asus is doing something AMD told the board makers they can not.



Yeah i know, that's also why i ride with some limitations.


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## Zareek (Jul 12, 2019)

Joss said:


> Any plans on beefy, passive heatsinks? Does anyone know?
> Because personally I'm not buying a motherboard with a fan on it  Reasons? Noise, eventual failure and above all: *I don't like it!*


You can always do what we did back in the day and replace it with something bigger/more surface area and passive. That will also depend on chipset location and the size of your graphics card I suppose...


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## TheLostSwede (Jul 12, 2019)

There might be upgraded chipset heatsinks coming from the board makers, at least if people make enough noise and demand it.
The downside is that  you might not be able to run two full-length cards with the upgraded chipset coolers, but there would be no fan.
I'd suggest contacting their support to complain about the fans, as that might get their backsides into gear and start making passive cooling for more boards.


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## Mats (Jul 12, 2019)

Thermalright HR-05 and HR-55 were pretty serious chipset heatsinks with heatpipes in the past, I wonder if we'll see them again, rebadged with HR-570 as the model name.


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## Eskimonster (Jul 12, 2019)

I belive in future we will see some more boards with no fans, or we will hafto do like we did in the olden days and added aftermarket cooling solutions to the mobo.
Or even fans lol like this i used in a board.


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## Black Haru (Jul 12, 2019)

There are some boards, like the MSI MEG X570 ACE, that have a heatpipe running from the chipset to the vrm heatsink, which could allow the fan to stay off far more often.


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## aQi (Jul 12, 2019)

Joss said:


> Any plans on beefy, passive heatsinks? Does anyone know?
> Because personally I'm not buying a motherboard with a fan on it  Reasons? Noise, eventual failure and above all: *I don't like it!*



Well you can always look for liquid cooling solutions too.

Or Intel just kicked the PCH off from the motherboard to be on Processor counter part. But you have to wait for that. Better go with gigabyte for fanless or waterblocks anyway.


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## Joss (Jul 12, 2019)

Black Haru said:


> Why, if I may ask?


I always strongly disliked motherboard covers, ever since I saw the first Sabertooth (P67?).
I think hardware is attractive in its own right, you don't need to embellish.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jul 12, 2019)

MSI is using that fan to cool not only the chipset, but also the NVME drives on some boards.


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## mstenholm (Jul 12, 2019)

thebluebumblebee said:


> MSI is using that fan to cool not only the chipset, but also the NVME drives on some boards.


I think that it goes for many of the boards and that makes sense.


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## TheMadDutchDude (Jul 12, 2019)

The fan is so quiet that you won't even notice it. It spins at 2500 RPM on my CHVIII, and I can't hear it over the other fans in the system that are spinning at 500-600 RPM.


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## Joss (Jul 12, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> It spins at 2500 RPM on my CHVIII


Can you tweak the fan curve?


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## Bones (Jul 12, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> The fan is so quiet that you won't even notice it. It spins at 2500 RPM on my CHVIII, and I can't hear it over the other fans in the system that are spinning at 500-600 RPM.


I agree - In nearly every instance I've ever known a chipset fan is either very quiet or silent. Active cooling tends to give better overall temps _because_ it's being actively cooled, even a tiny fan blowing a slight breeze is better than nothing at all. 
Take into consideration most systems are stuffed into a case with limited ventilation that makes things run a little warmer anyway, it's just a good idea.


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## aQi (Jul 12, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> The fan is so quiet that you won't even notice it. It spins at 2500 RPM on my CHVIII, and I can't hear it over the other fans in the system that are spinning at 500-600 RPM.


Are you using any nvme drives ? In raid to be specific ?


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## Metroid (Jul 12, 2019)

Joss said:


> Any plans on beefy, passive heatsinks? Does anyone know?
> Because personally I'm not buying a motherboard with a fan on it  Reasons? Noise, eventual failure and above all: *I don't like it!*



You can add a huge heatsink yourself, there was a video in which the guy added a heatsink on the x570. This video 








He placed a crap heatsink, you can put a better one, need skills. Also I believe only these set of motherboards will have that fan, starting 2020 -2021, amd will release a am5 platform with ddr5 and pcie5 maybe? hehe triple 555, a possible 554 hehe


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## biffzinker (Jul 12, 2019)

Joss said:


> The Asus Pro WS X570-ACE looks nice and clean, but there's a fan in there


At least Asus didn't cheap out, and instead used a Delta brand fan. It has a rated lifespan of at least 60,000 hours.


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## aQi (Jul 12, 2019)

Metroid said:


> You can add a huge heatsink yourself, there was a video in which the guy added a heatsink on the x570. This video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agree to triple 5 

But i want the PCH to be under processor’s IHS just like Intel 10th gen onwards.


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## Metroid (Jul 12, 2019)

Aqeel Shahzad said:


> Agree to triple 5
> 
> But i want the PCH to be under processor’s IHS just like Intel 10th gen onwards.



Well amd will have to improve on that, in this age and time a fan on any chipset is retrogress.


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## aQi (Jul 12, 2019)

Metroid said:


> Well amd will have to improve on that, in this age and time a fan on any chipset is retrogress.



Dont worry its not easy to expose pcie 4.0 with raid enabled nvme from the PCH. On the other hand Intel is still not on the same. 10th Gen lacks support of PCIe 4.0 as usual.
Meanwhile PCI-SIG announced PCIe 6.0 so there has to be a chance where Intel and Amd might be cooking some PCIe 5.0 recipes. But again its not easy to achieve that especially when you are planning to put PCIe 4/5/6 under the processor’s IHS.


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## londiste (Jul 13, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> The fan is so quiet that you won't even notice it. It spins at 2500 RPM on my CHVIII, and I can't hear it over the other fans in the system that are spinning at 500-600 RPM.


2500 rpm and quiet do not really belong in the same sentence.


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## TheLostSwede (Jul 13, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> At least Asus didn't cheap out, and instead used a Delta brand fan. It has a rated lifespan of at least 60,000 hours.
> View attachment 126721



From what I understand, Asus might be the only company to have placed a heatsink next to the fan...
The other boards just have a fan on top of a piece of flat metal.


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## Joss (Jul 13, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> The other boards just have a fan on top of a piece of flat metal


That's another thing that bothers me. The implementation of the fan/heatsink combo is poor.
Also I'm sure a passive heatsink would be an easy solution, but tech companies are more and more run by Marketing departments where plastic covers and RGB lighting make more of a splash than proper cooling.


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 26, 2019)

Joss said:


> Any plans on beefy, passive heatsinks? Does anyone know?
> Because personally I'm not buying a motherboard with a fan on it  Reasons? Noise, eventual failure and above all: *I don't like it!*


Was all ready to buy, hot cash in my hot hands to fork out on the brand new ASUS HERO VIII... What's this??? Embedded fans on the board??? uhhh! No dice.



Joss said:


> argh  I'd have to unscrew all those covers.
> The Asus Pro WS X570-ACE looks nice and clean, but there's a fan in there


NO. No, no, no, no. You remove the fan you kill the warranty. The fan is embedded. Which board sells with removable fans? I wanna know.



TheLostSwede said:


> From what I understand, Asus might be the only company to have placed a heatsink next to the fan...
> The other boards just have a fan on top of a piece of flat metal.



I called ASUS about this. I talked to the CEO and production departments and was in consistent correspondence with them about it. 60k hours isn't as long as some might think. I can make a good main board last ten years easily but it isn't very likely I can do that with an embedded fan on it. Say what you will. This is still a bad idea. I can't believe ASUS did this.



Metroid said:


> You can add a huge heatsink yourself, there was a video in which the guy added a heatsink on the x570. This video
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Doesn't look like he's running that under a load either, not to mention that he voided the warranty on the board doing that. I rather like Buildzoid's approach to passive cooling on X570 boards. 







*


Joss said:


> That's another thing that bothers me. The implementation of the fan/heatsink combo is poor.
> Also I'm sure a passive heatsink would be an easy solution, but tech companies are more and more run by Marketing departments where plastic covers and RGB lighting make more of a splash than proper cooling.



That's exactly it, Joss. You hit the nail square on the head. I'm so bummed about this. There is no way in the world ASUS couldn't have opted for a better cooling solution instead of pandering after the competition and following suit. Whatever happened to ASUS' renowned innovation and ingenuity? Nothing unique here. Just more cloning of the same old competitors. I was really hoping ASUS had something better to offer. I was so excited about PCIe 4.0 until I saw how ASUS dealt with it. Gigabyte is the only company that seemed to show a little innovation in this respect and frankly I think they went overboard with their cooling solution and their VRM; but then perhaps they know something we don't. Still I'm not prepared to spend the sort of capital on a system board they're asking and I'm not interested in water blocking my board. We need more options. This is nothing a good heat sink with a little copper tubing can't fix. At the very least they could have offered us a more user friendly solution such as modular cooling fans instead of embedding them. The math on that 60 thousand hours translates to roughly over six years. A main board when properly cared for will easily last ten years. Is it me or does anyone else here smell planned obsoletion?


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## Zach_01 (Sep 26, 2019)

londiste said:


> 2500 rpm and quiet do not really belong in the same sentence.


But they do...
Done some testing like half an hour ago. First of all forget about the fans from 10-15 years ago. X570 fans have way better quality. At least the delta fan that my board has (Same 60K hours like that ASUS = almost 7 straight years). The bios from Aorus pro don’t allow to change the fan curve but has 3 modes. Silent, balanced and performance. The silent mode starts the fan at 58~61C point depending on the temp offset (0~3C). Respectively the balanced at 48~51, and performance at 38~41.

The fan’s lower speed is about 1500rpm. From there it starts and it’s about 18-20%.

Ambient temp around chipset about 29C. Mind that I have an open setup without a case.
So I’ve done this: Stop air flow completely around the chipset area and put on performance mode to see how high the fan would go. The temp gone to 54-55C and fan at 2800rpm which is about 35%. Guess what.... *The fan did not make any noise!*

Right now its on silent mode (PCH fan 0rpm) with a case fan at 1100rpm (~65cfm) 3 inches from PCH blowing right at it and the graghics card as well. PCH temp at 49-50C. Guess what again... that case fan is making some noise. Very very low but still. And it’s more like air flow noise than motor noise.

That fan I guess can spin up to 6000~6500rpm or even more at 100%. But I really doubt would be the case ever.

I want to do more testing, like making the graphics card produce heat right on to PCH while its fan is on performance mode. Just to go above 2800rpm and see if it’s audiable.


*60k hours as I said is roughly 6.9years straight 24/7. If its working 12hours a day or even 6hours a day.... well do the math...*


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 26, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> But they do...
> Done some testing like half an hour ago. First of all forget about the fans from 10-15 years ago. X570 fans have way better quality. At least the delta fan that my board has (Same 60K hours like that ASUS = almost 7 straight years). The bios from Aorus pro don’t allow to change the fan curve but has 3 modes. Silent, balanced and performance. The silent mode starts the fan at 58~61C point depending on the temp offset (0~3C). Respectively the balanced at 48~51, and performance at 38~41.
> 
> The fan’s lower speed is about 1500rpm. From there it starts and it’s about 18-20%.
> ...




Methinks the elephant in the room is being ignored. The fact that a fan over the chip set is completely unnecessary with an appropriate cooling solution should not be overlooked. Isn't that one reason why we moved away from mechanical klunk drives to SSDs?? Can anyone say "No moving parts"? No matter how good a fan might be it will still suffer from wear and tear and will never last as long as a solid and effective heat sink. Friction is a physical reality. Friction = wear and tear and more heat generated. If the life of the chip set is contingent upon whether that fan keeps on running the life of the chip set is in jeopardy. Nobody really knows how good these fans really are because nobody has ran one for 6.9 years. Speculation is cheap. For all we know the fans could be worse than those developed ten or fifteen years ago. It has been my experience that pride of workmanship and durability was focused on more back then than they are today. Today, obsoletion is king. Ever wonder why so many main boards made ten and twenty years ago will still function?

Yeah sure we can toss around ball park figures and numbers all day but we have no clue what that 60K hours is really based upon. Is it based upon a mildly over-clocked CPU, LN2, stock out of the box and only 6 hours a day of active use? Just turning the PC on and leaving it run over night will constitute "usage". C'mon, this is corporate talk where numbers are fudged and inflated. We don't know and they're not telling. All of it is pure speculation. If the fan fails the entire main board has to be RMA'd because it is embedded and that's assuming of course that the system board is still under warranty. So there's no fan swapping here, no optional measures to take while a replacement fan comes in the mail. The least they could have done is made the thing user friendly but they didn't and that's something to consider: Why would they make it so proprietary and NON-user friendly?

You say 60k hours is roughly 6.9 years straight 24/7 but that's not exactly what the manufacturer of that fan is saying. How long will that fan run when it's under intensive load 24/7? One can only speculate. I am well acquainted with how corporations fudge numbers. 6.9 years isn't that long compared to the life expectancy of most system boards when properly cared for. That aside this whole fan issue is completely unnecessary. That is my point and it seems to be the observation of many enthusiasts and builders on the net as well. Manufacturers need to realize this did not go unnoticed and take affirmative action. I really have a strong gut feeling about this and it ain't purdee. This is my view, my opinion, my story, and I'm sticking to it.


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## Zach_01 (Sep 27, 2019)

What is the meaning of “purdee” I’m not from US.
I can see a valid point to what you are saying in general, and I’m not disagreeing really. Thats why I don’t relay entirely on what ever any company says. Otherwise my only sentence would be that 60k one. I also wrote a bunch of other stuff too.

I really don’t remember a chipset fan from those days back to spin at 3000rpm completely noiseless. I said I did some testing and continue to do so.



Zach_01 said:


> I want to do more testing, like making the graphics card produce heat right on to PCH while its fan is on performance mode. Just to go above 2800rpm and see if it’s audiable.


Well I tried... could not manage to make it go beyond 3000rpm. Still completely noiseless.

My point with all that is if you have proper air flow the fan could be stopped and work only at extreme times.
Right now my set is on Balanced mode, the air temp around the chipset is 28C with a case fan, the PCH fan has stopped and the chipset’s temp is 47C. I think we are making it more of an issue than really is.


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> What is the meaning of “purdee” I’m not from US.
> I can see a valid point to what you are saying in general, and I’m not disagreeing really. Thats why I don’t relay entirely on what ever any company says. Otherwise my only sentence would be that 60k one. I also wrote a bunch of other stuff too.
> 
> I really don’t remember a chipset fan from those days back to spin at 3000rpm completely noiseless. I said I did some testing and continue to do so.
> ...



My apology, Zach. I was using North American red neck slang. "Purdee" is slang for pretty. I should have considered that not everyone reading these boards speaks English as a first language, let alone slang. Yes, it is impressive that a brand new fan can run so quietly at 3000 rpm. Even my Noctua fans make some noise at those speeds. How long that can last I will not surmise. Once the dust gets into the fans it's a whole different story, I find. You may be right about proper air flow. This is a prime factor even in liquid cooling and there's no getting around the fact that air flow is the common denominator of all cooling solutions. Even a good heat sink will benefit immensely from effective air flow.  Again, my point is this: Are these fans even necessary? Isn't there a better way of dealing with this thermal issue? And if the fans are in fact essential then why are we not permitted to swap out such a vital component in the event that it fails or, in the event that even better fans are developed in the future? That embedding business really put the nails in the coffin for me, if you'll pardon the expression. Why would these manufacturers resort to such tactics? Again: At the very least the fans should have been made user friendly.


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## Samiam66 (Sep 27, 2019)

I dont recall X470 taichi having any fans on board just header plugs


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Samiam66 said:


> I dont recall X470 taichi having any fans on board just header plugs



Yup. The X470 series doesn't need them. Then again, you don't have the benefit of genuine PCIE gen 4 with the X470 series. (At least not officially.)


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## Zach_01 (Sep 27, 2019)

Yes X570 chipset has X2 the power draw compared to X470, and at this point no one knows really why, other than the official statement about PCI-E gen4, which may not be entirely true. The power draw is true though...



WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> My apology, Zach. I was using North American red neck slang. "Purdee" is slang for pretty. I should have considered that not everyone reading these boards speaks English as a first language, let alone slang.


No harm done! Thanks for clarifying that one...



WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Are these fans even necessary? Isn't there a better way of dealing with this thermal issue? And if the fans are in fact essential then why are we not permitted to swap out such a vital component in the event that it fails or, in the event that even better fans are developed in the future? That embedding business really put the nails in the coffin for me, if you'll pardon the expression. Why would these manufacturers resort to such tactics? Again: At the very least the fans should have been made user friendly.


I can’t really think of anything other than cutting costs. It is easiest way, and fastest way. Buildzoid‘s idea about passive cooling, as nice and thoughtful as may be... would still add a lot to the cost I think. I don’t want to think that something like this implementation was made other than cutting manufacturing cost. Something like failed fans after warranty expiration just to purchase a whole new board. I want to say it is too much, but then again... who’s to say!

Is the fan necessary? I would say yes and no. A lot of users don’t pay the right attention to general air flow. I do, a lot to the point of unnecessary some times. And I did my study before buying a X570 board. What is common sense to me or you for others is something else if you know what I mean by that, and excuse me for not being clear. It’s hard for me to explain in English.


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Evidently we both did our home work. You decided to buy and I didn't. There is little that ASUS or any company can give me to explain embedding the fan in such a way that it cannot be replaced easily by the end user in the event of a fan failure or warning. A simple warning not to use the system board without the fan could have been printed in the manual and on the warranty as well if it hasn't been done already. Having to return the entire system board in the event of a fan failure or anticipated fan failure is a great inconvenience to the end user. Having to replace the entire unit just after the warranty is expired is nothing short of insult to injury and this certainly needn't happen outside of six years which is twice the time allocated to most warranties on system boards. Either this current approach to addressing the thermals was simply a negligent oversight or something more sinister is going on here. Either way it isn't good for the end user and the board manufacturers should have known that it wasn't going to go unnoticed. A dedicated PC builder/enthusiast will certainly notice something so obvious and begin to wonder if there wasn't a better approach. The real question is just who is supposed to be benefiting from this non-user serviceable design. The end user or the share holders?


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## Kissamies (Sep 27, 2019)

Is that so big deal to just put a third party fan or a waterblock? Of course a large graphics card could cause issues, but back in the day the noisy HSF flew in the bin and I replaced those with a passive heatsink.

e: or just unplug the fan?


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## Zach_01 (Sep 27, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> Is that so big deal to just put a third party fan or a waterblock? Of course a large graphics card could cause issues, but back in the day the noisy HSF flew in the bin and I replaced those with a passive heatsink.
> 
> e: or just unplug the fan?


You cant unplug it is embedded on the board. At least the common user cant. But I did all I can to minimize or even eliminate the use of it. I have the board working for a month now and the hours on that fan's counter is very very low compered to how much the PC is ON.
And it can be done with a nice fan blowing right at the HS which can be replaced with less than 10$/€. Not all users should do and think like me though.


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## Kissamies (Sep 27, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> You cant unplug it is embedded on the board. At least the common user cant. But I did all I can to minimize or even eliminate the use of it. I have the board working for a month now and the hours on that fan's counter is very very low compered to how much the PC is ON.
> And it can be done with a nice fan blowing right at the HS which can be replaced with less than 10$/€. Not all users should do and think like me though.


Embedded, you mean the fan's wires are soldered on the board?


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## Zach_01 (Sep 27, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> Embedded, you mean the fan's wires are soldered on the board?


You cant even see any wires. May be if you cut the heatsink open, i really dont know. As I said earlier the fan has 3 modes in BIOS and the silent one starts the fan at 58~61C. If you place a case fan on it with sufficient air flow and with silent mode the fan is stopped. In my senario a sub-30C ambient required for that. Chipset temp right now is around 46~47C, case fan airflow around 28C.


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## Kissamies (Sep 27, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> You cant even see any wires. May be if you cut the heatsink open, i really dont know. As I said earlier the fan has 3 modes in BIOS and the silent one starts the fan at 58~61C. If you place a case fan on it with sufficient air flow and with silent mode the fan is stopped. In my senario a sub-30C ambient required for that. Chipset temp right now is around 46~47C, case fan airflow around 28C.


Interesting, didn't even know that. Well, a real enthusiast wouldn't give a rat's crap and would disassembly those anyway..


----------



## Xzibit (Sep 27, 2019)

They should have a plug on the MSI where the chipset fan isnt covered up by a grill or M.2 heatsink you can clearly see one. They should all be like such.


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 27, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> They should have a plug on the MSI where the chipset fan isnt covered up by a grill or M.2 heatsink you can clearly see one. They should all be like such.


Exactly. Just to unplug it or replace it with your own solution, with or without fan.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 27, 2019)

londiste said:


> There have been much hungrier chipsets - X58 being a common example - that had passive cooling.



I believe the TDP on X58 is actually lower.


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 27, 2019)

R-T-B said:


> I believe the TDP on X58 is actually lower.


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> Embedded, you mean the fan's wires are soldered on the board?



Embedded, as in integral, as in riveted, melded, unified, factory joined at the hip, vitals, or whatever makes it as permanently part of the board as possible. I called Asus about this. You mess with it, the warranty on the board is void. It's not like you can just unscrew the cover and unplug the fan. Not sure I'd want to get into modding a brand new main board while the warranty is still in effect but to each their own.

Yup gotta luv those old X58 boards. I have two of them running right now even as I type. Not that I mind the system I'm typing on right now. (I suppose I should pop the info on this rig into my profile at some point.) Still, it's a fact they don't make 'em like they used to.


----------



## Xzibit (Sep 27, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Embedded, as in integral, as in riveted, melded, unified, factory joined at the hip, vitals, or whatever makes it as permanently part of the board as possible. I called Asus about this. You mess with it, the warranty on the board is void. *It's not like you can just unscrew the cover and unplug the fan*. Not sure I'd want to get into modding a brand new main board while the warranty is still in effect but to each their own.
> 
> Yup gotta luv those old X58 boards. I have two of them running right now even as I type. Not that I mind the system I'm typing on right now. (I suppose I should pop the info on this rig into my profile at some point.) Still, it's a fact they don't make 'em like they used to.



Actually you can.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 27, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> View attachment 132756



Oof.  Must've been a wee bit off then.


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 27, 2019)

R-T-B said:


> Oof.  Must've been a wee bit off then.


At least the good old Asus P6T SE did its job with passive cooling even with i7-920  @ 4.2GHz 



WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Embedded, as in integral, as in riveted, melded, unified, factory joined at the hip, vitals, or whatever makes it as permanently part of the board as possible. I called Asus about this. You mess with it, the warranty on the board is void. It's not like you can just unscrew the cover and unplug the fan. Not sure I'd want to get into modding a brand new main board while the warranty is still in effect but to each their own.
> 
> Yup gotta luv those old X58 boards. I have two of them running right now even as I type. Not that I mind the system I'm typing on right now. (I suppose I should pop the info on this rig into my profile at some point.) Still, it's a fact they don't make 'em like they used to.


An enthusiast won't usually care about the warranty.


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

An enthusiast with money to burn might not care. lol I'm an enthusiast and I certainly value my warranties.


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 27, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> An enthusiast with money to burn might not care. lol I'm an enthusiast and I certainly value my warranties.


An enthusiast will cool their graphics cards with h2o and therewore wipe their butts with warranty by removing the original cooler.


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Yeah, they'll do that too but not all enthusiasts are alike.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 27, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> An enthusiast will cool their graphics cards with h2o and therewore wipe their butts with warranty by removing the original cooler.



A certain type of enthusiast maybe.  

I don't do water period.


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 27, 2019)

R-T-B said:


> A certain type of enthusiast maybe.
> 
> I don't do water period.


To be honest, I also drive my Crossfire beasts with air for now, but soon that's gonna change.  (got only one waterblock and that was full of shit, cleaned it but just the CPU is under h2o now)


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> Actually you can.



Which board, Xz? Is it any good? You caught my curiosity now because Asus told me I couldn't.



R-T-B said:


> A certain type of enthusiast maybe.
> 
> I don't do water period.



A frog that won't do water. Now I'm impressed! 



Chloe Price said:


> At least the good old Asus P6T SE did its job with passive cooling even with i7-920  @ 4.2GHz
> 
> 
> An enthusiast won't usually care about the warranty.



Both of my X58s run i920 chips. I won't say what they're clocked at coz nobody would believe me anyway. They've run this way for years and on air cooling too. I have an MSI 1050 Ti running on one. What I love about them the most is that they actually have a BIOS.  That UEFI GUI is* not* a BIOS despite what anyone might call it.


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 27, 2019)

With good tips and cooling, an i7-920 could achieve easily 4.2GHz and even more, so at least I don't doubt your OC what you had with those.



WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Yeah, they'll do that too but not all enthusiasts are alike.


Well, that's then an user who just buys fast parts but doesn't squeeze everything out from 'em. That's where we come to the play. Yeah, I have a historical R9 290 Crossfire but it still kicks ass. 8)


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

I actually gave them to two of my daughters and they both love them. The younger one uses an old Sapphire card in hers. I never have any problem with those rigs. I just keep upgrading them and my girls stay happy  I suppose I should explain more... They're too young to post here yet. We all live in the same house and I'm their IT guy. Spoiled brats, they are. The 12 year old is getting into python and wants to be a game developer. The ten year old is simply a gamer. The youngest likes to game and watch animal videos. I have four daughters. They keep me busy building.


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 27, 2019)

Great that they'll still be in good usage! 



WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> They're too young to post here yet.


Nah, I was on IRC since I was 9yo.


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> Great that they'll still be in good usage!
> 
> 
> Nah, I was on IRC since I was 9yo.



ha ha ha  They do have a mother we all must answer to.


----------



## Xzibit (Sep 27, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> *Which board*, Xz? Is it any good? You caught my curiosity now because *Asus told me I couldn't*.



They all should but you already mentioned your scared of voiding warranty.

Surprise you haven't come across this video yet. As an enthusiast you should pay attention on the settings shes displaying and whats available.


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> They all should but you already mentioned your scared of voiding warranty.
> 
> Surprise you haven't come across this video yet. As an enthusiast you should pay attention on the settings shes displaying and whats available.



Well, as an enthusiast I spend a lot of time enjoying my rigs and watching YouTube videos is not always a priority. But I certainly watch them. I have to say GIGABYTE certainly has been getting better. That video looks familiar. I may have watched it in part. I'll have another look. Thanks.

*umm... I watched it. Nothing about unplugging the fan altogether that I could see. I'm not scared of voiding the warranty. I'm just not stupid. I find it annoying that I can't just unplug the fan without voiding the warranty. There is a difference. Why waste money on repairs when there are so many awesome components out there to buy, right? You can believe me when I say stuff happens. I've made my fair share of RMA's in these past two decades of PC building and I never enjoyed a single one. Board manufacturers should have made this an easy, user-serviceable deal but they didn't. We should have had the option of implementing tower cooling if we wanted to without voiding the warranty but we don't. Fans should have been optional but they're not. To be honest the least of my concerns is how loud the fans may or may not be. This is nothing a good set of cans can't fix.  Quality, longevity, durability, performance... This is what concerns me more. Architecture like this already has a bad rap. Then again, people who forget history...


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 27, 2019)

I call myself as an enthusiast not like I need to have the best hardware, but I love to take the crap out what I have. Then we move to water cooling and search the best voltage/clock ratio


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> I call myself as an enthusiast not like I need to have the best hardware, but I love to take the crap out what I have. Then we move to water cooling and search the best voltage/clock ratio



Yup. You're an enthusiast. I get pretty enthusiastic about rescuing old PCs nobody wants and making them work again. I like upgrading them and proving there is still life in the things once they get a little TLC. There are all kinds of enthusiasts out there. You don't have to go with bleeding edge to be an enthusiast.


----------



## Xzibit (Sep 27, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Well, as an enthusiast I spend a lot of time enjoying my rigs and watching YouTube videos is not always a priority. But I certainly watch them. I have to say GIGABYTE certainly has been getting better. That video looks familiar. I may have watched it in part. I'll have another look. Thanks.
> 
> *umm... I watched it. Nothing about unplugging the fan altogether that I could see. I'm not scared of voiding the warranty. *I'm just not stupid. I find it annoying that I can't just unplug the fan without voiding the warranty.* There is a difference. Why waste money on repairs when there are so many awesome components out there to buy, right? You can believe me when I say stuff happens. I've made my fair share of RMA's in these past two decades of PC building and I never enjoyed a single one. Board manufacturers should have made this an easy, user-serviceable deal but they didn't. *We should have had the option of implementing tower cooling if we wanted to without voiding the warranty but we don't*. Fans should have been optional but they're not. To be honest the least of my concerns is how loud the fans may or may not be. This is nothing a good set of cans can't fix.  Quality, longevity, durability, performance... This is what concerns me more. Architecture like this already has a bad rap. Then again, people who forget history...



Wait what ? 

We then going to complain about the tower cooling impeding on GPUs installs. Take Asus X570s the chipset fan is straight across the first PCIe x16. Would of thought one who is try'n to potentially alter the chipset would catch that.


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> Wait what ?
> 
> We then going to complain about the tower cooling impeding on GPUs installs. Take Asus the chipset fan is straight across the first PCIe x16. Would of thought one who is try'n to potentially alter the chipset would catch that.



No reason ASUS couldn't provide those options themselves if they're so concerned about the user damaging the board, right?


----------



## Xzibit (Sep 27, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> No reason ASUS couldn't provide those options themselves if they're so concerned about the user damaging the board, right?



Can you provide links to where they officially have said they are concerned ?


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Would you settle for an email sent to me from ASUS ACI-CEO_Feedback@asus.com ?


----------



## Xzibit (Sep 27, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Would you settle for an email sent to me from ASUS ACI-CEO_Feedback@asus.com ?



post it.


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Thu 26/09/2019 5:40 PM
Dear [name withheld]

Thank you for your recent contact to our CEO's office!

Please see the direct feedback from our HQ R&D that I was asked to forward to you.

It’s always great to hear feedback from a passionate builder such as yourself. At the same time, it’s saddening to hear that we didn’t meet your expectations for this generation. As you may know, this generation’s chipset* provides quite a thermal challenge* and as far as design goes,* we agree that the use of fans should be avoided as much as possible*. However, since motherboards are an open platform with a wide variety of use cases, we hold our thermal evaluation tests to very high standards in order to guarantee full performance in extreme conditions (for example a fully loaded system placed in a chamber with an ambient temperature of over 90 degrees). Every board must be able to stand up to such extreme conditions, and ROG especially must pass with flying colors.

*We are well aware that a stigma remains with many experience builders such as yourself, having gone through nightmares of failed fans. *So, we’ve worked with Delta to source a fan that has a L10 bearing life of 60,000 hours. We completely understand why you might be skeptical, but we hope that you will continue to pay close attention to the DIY space, as time will tell whether our quality stands up to the test of time.


If you have any further questions, comments and/or concerns, please do not hesitate to let me know. It will be my pleasure to assist you directly.
Thank you for choosing ASUS and I hope you have a wonderful day!

Sincerely,
Robert T.
Service Department for ASUS Office of the CEO

*emphasis added*


----------



## Xzibit (Sep 27, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Thu 26/09/2019 5:40 PM
> Dear [name withheld]
> 
> Thank you for your recent contact to our CEO's office!
> ...



I don't see anything of concerning with alterations.

I see it more of a company response to people complaining about the use of a fan.  He kind of lets you know in a polite way that it shouldn't have a problem unless you live in the desert with "example a fully loaded system placed in a chamber with an ambient temperature of over 90 degrees"


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

I don't see anything in your video saying I can unplug the fan either. This communication was sent to me in response to my addressing the fact that there are better ways to deal with the thermals. I also contacted ASUS directly via land line and they informed me that I would indeed void the warranty if I disconnected the fan. But I'm not posting here to dispute the matter. If you wish to dispute it take it up with ASUS. The fact remains that the board was not manufactured in a way that is "DIY friendly" as the fan on the board is embedded and removing it voids the warranty. Even if I were to remove it to replace it with something better I will have voided the warranty. I would invite you to call up ASUS yourself and verify this as I already have done so.


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 27, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Yup. You're an enthusiast. I get pretty enthusiastic about rescuing old PCs nobody wants and making them work again. I like upgrading them and proving there is still life in the things once they get a little TLC. There are all kinds of enthusiasts out there. You don't have to go with bleeding edge to be an enthusiast.


You must know what you're doing, like when I delidded an i7-7700K with a razor blade.


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Sep 27, 2019)

Ha ha ha.. You know, I've always wanted to delid a chip but I still haven't worked up the nerve. Nope. not gonna say what I did to those poor i7 920's . I surprised they still work. Maybe one day I'll give it a go. I noticed you can get i7 960's on Ebay pretty cheap these days. Thanks for the reminder.. hmmmm... Now you got me thinking. 

Chloe did you use liquid metal by any chance?


----------



## Taiwan IC (Oct 11, 2019)




----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Oct 14, 2019)

That is a fine bit of work. Impressive. I'm interested in seeing how that would perform under a serious load. Is that a Scythe cooler? This is exactly the sort of thing I've been trying to point to. Such a pity that such fine work violates the warranty on the system board.


----------



## Taiwan IC (Oct 14, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> That is a fine bit of work. Impressive. I'm interested in seeing how that would perform under a serious load. Is that a Scythe cooler? This is exactly the sort of thing I've been trying to point to. Such a pity that such fine work violates the warranty on the system board.



Is that a Scythe cooler? -->
*Scythe SCNJ-5000 Ninja 5*

*North Sea III *





						个性配置 超频三北海III北桥散热器评测-超频三,PCCooler,北海III,北桥,散热器,评测,X58,880G,风扇-驱动之家
					

个性配置 超频三北海III北桥散热器评测



					news.mydrivers.com
				




Such a pity that such fine work violates the warranty on the system board.
-->
I don't think so.They just don't want you to know the truth.--Failed design....
(Rotate open 4 screws.What will be the problem? )


under a serious load --->


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Oct 15, 2019)

Yup. But when I called ASUS and asked them if I could remove the fan they told me I would void the warranty if I did that.


----------



## Hyderz (Oct 15, 2019)

op is not a fan


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Oct 15, 2019)

Thou almost persuadest me to buy a Crosshair Hero VIII


----------



## Mussels (Oct 15, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> It's funny you say x470 and pcie 4. It' s seems that some x470 boards can run pcie 4 but maybe with some limitation. Asus has just liftet some info about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



this was removed and blocked with AGESA updates, it was trialled and found flawed so it was removed again.

PCI-E 4.0 is only on x570 until new boards are released.


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Oct 15, 2019)

Mussels said:


> this was removed and blocked with AGESA updates, it was trialled and found flawed so it was removed again.
> 
> PCI-E 4.0 is only on x570 until new boards are released.


Yes indeed it is true. The X470 series that allowed for PCIe Gen 4 in the bios produced instabilities and even the manufacturers did not stand behind it when it could be accessed and implemented. Myself, I wouldn't risk it. Even if it could be done that doesn't mean it_ should_ be done.


----------



## Taiwan IC (Oct 15, 2019)

[QUOTE =“ WHOFOUNDFUNGUS，帖子：4133436，成員：135234”]
你幾乎說服我買了十字準星八號
[/引用]







						ASUS CROSSHAIR VIII HERO (AMD X570) Motherboard Review
					

Is this the HERO of the X570 motherboards? Let's find out.




					www.tweaktown.com


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Oct 15, 2019)

Amazing. And the tech support at Asus told me it was "embedded".

Thanks for sharing Taiwan IC. This is much appreciated and it eases my concerns. Looks like I'll be buying this system board after all!


----------



## Taiwan IC (Oct 15, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Amazing. And the tech support at Asus told me it was "embedded".
> 
> Thanks for sharing Taiwan IC. This is much appreciated and it eases my concerns. Looks like I'll be buying this system board after all!


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Oct 15, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> You must know what you're doing, like when I delidded an i7-7700K with a razor blade.


lol I almost missed the pun.  So much for "bleeding edge".DUMPSTER DIVER'S PC RECLAMATION


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 15, 2019)

Joss said:


> Any plans on beefy, passive heatsinks? Does anyone know?
> Because personally I'm not buying a motherboard with a fan on it  Reasons? Noise, eventual failure and above all: *I don't like it!*


Google Stadia , is your best bet in the future then.

You can't see it's fans.

This generation you might be lucky but next , intel will be adding fans on them imho.


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Oct 15, 2019)

The fans are not such a big deal if they are "optional" and replaceable. A fellow could run something like a Noctua rig over the chip set (preferably smaller) and include those famously quiet fans. What I find particularly annoying is when the design is not user friendly enough to allow for fan replacement without resorting to some serious modding. Still, for me (and I suspect most enthusiasts) it's about options. To have the option of using fan cooling on a heat sink or passive cooling allows for flexibility. There is also a practical side to this as well. Should the fan begin to fail (and we all know this is inevitable at some point) user friendly replacement should be an option. Another option that should be readily available is to replace the fans with even more efficient fans without voiding the warranty on the system board. Of course, this is only my opinion. I'm hoping the non-Wifi version of this board uses the same approach to chip set cooling. I don't see any reason why it shouldn't.


----------



## Bones (Oct 15, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Methinks the elephant in the room is being ignored. The *fact* that a fan over the chip set is completely unnecessary with an appropriate cooling solution should not be overlooked.



_Not quite_ the absolute as you've put it.
Some setups do need it anyway.
If you're worried about fans over a chipset wearing out/making noise, how about the ones for the case which has to move air?
Same basic thing in action because passive heatsinks need airflow to them to achieve the same effect a fan directly on the heatsink would. Passive heatsinks within a case do rely on airflow bring cooler air in and getting warmer air out (Air movement), making them dependent on fans anyway, with this a case fan(s) moving air to create the mentioned effect it needs.
If the case a system is running in has poor to no real cooling/air movement that means heat isn't being moved along and out the case as it should.
I prefer a fan on mine period because at least it's got something moving air to and through the heatsink.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with a passive heatsink, it's just my preference to have a fan on the chipset vs not.



WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> For all we know the fans could be worse than those developed ten or fifteen years ago. It has been my experience that pride of workmanship and durability was focused on more back then than they are today. Today, obsoletion is king. Ever wonder why so many main boards made ten and twenty years ago will still function?


Can't argue with that, I too know they just don't make them as good as they used to and have more than a few older boards here as evidence of it.


----------



## Zach_01 (Oct 16, 2019)

Gigabyte add, at some point in BIOS, the option to stop the PCH fan in BIOS so I took that road. I add a case fan near the chipset and with its own fan stopped it runs at 45~51C with ambient right below 30C.
Silent profile set in BIOS to start at ~60C, so it never starts as long there is a good air flow around it.
Problem solved without anything being removed or costly big passive heatsink that may conflict with other hardware (see 2/3-slot graghics card)


----------



## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Oct 16, 2019)

Bones said:


> _Not quite_ the absolute as you've put it.
> Some setups do need it anyway.



Oh, but it is as absolute as I put it. The part that you chose not to underline reads as follows: *with an appropriate cooling solution should not be overlooked.   IF * the cooling solution is *appropriate *without a fan then the fan is not essential. If the setup needs it then the cooling solution without the fan isn't appropriate and the user has very limited options. This is my point: A cooling solution such as the one provided in the above pictures would be appropriate and I would suggest that no matter what board one uses as long as a heat sink of that sort of efficiency is do-able then a fan isn't essential. Did you check the temps in those pictures? 



Bones said:


> If you're worried about fans over a chipset wearing out/making noise, how about the ones for the case which has to move air?



I'm not worried in the least bit. In fact, I'm elated. My main beef was learning that manufacturers were putting embedded fans over the chip set. The Hero ViIII, being the board of my choice, does not have an embedded fan over the chip set despite what I was told on the phone when I called ASUS support. The thing about the fans for the case is that they are not embedded fans. They can be easily replaced and that was my main concern.



Bones said:


> I prefer a fan on mine period because at least it's got something moving air to and through the heatsink.



Which, again, is precisely my point: Having options. Personally, I would prefer to have both but certainly not if this means having no option. Again: It's about options, as I stated in my prior post. The very idea of having to send the system board back simply because the fan failed strikes me as a huge inconvenience. Actually, I did share one of my ideas with Asus (as I alluded to earlier in this thread) and I was told by engineering that they would be looking into it. I hope they werent' giving me lip service because my idea is sound and it readily addresses the very things you mention. There is also the option of water bllocking which I am not a big fan of but it shouldn't be ruled out and it should also be another option open to the user. If we can get kits for CPUs for this then we should be able to use kits for chip sets much the same way. Anything involving moving parts should be easy to replace. I did state (and I quote) "The fans are not such a big deal if they are 'optional' and replaceable" in the post just above yours.  I hope this clarfiies my concerns.


----------



## Totally (Oct 16, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> I don't see anything of concerning with alterations.
> 
> I see it more of a company response to people complaining about the use of a fan.  He kind of lets you know in a polite way that it shouldn't have a problem unless you live in the desert with "example a fully loaded system placed in a chamber with an ambient temperature of over 90 degrees"



You totally misread that email. It said that example was the worst case scenario and no matter how remote all their boards have to meet that cooling requirement because they have no control on who gets what are where specific boards go. His tone hinted at that yes the fans unnecessary when adequate cooling provided but in a worst case scenario a fan is neccessary therefore it is a requirement on all boards.


----------



## Bones (Oct 16, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Oh, but it is as absolute as I put it. The part that you chose not to underline reads as follows: *with an appropriate cooling solution should not be overlooked.   IF * the cooling solution is *appropriate *without a fan then the fan is not essential. If the setup needs it then the cooling solution without the fan isn't appropriate and the user has very limited options. This is my point: A cooling solution such as the one provided in the above pictures would be appropriate and I would suggest that no matter what board one uses as long as a heat sink of that sort of efficiency is do-able then a fan isn't essential. Did you check the temps in those pictures?



I didn't "Choose" to overlook it, more like as I was reading it just didn't click at the time and you made a good point with that, esp since I went back and re-read the post - Thanks for pointing that out. Thing we do agree on there is you must have an appropriate cooling solution/method, the exact means used determines what the system needs.



WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> I'm not worried in the least bit. In fact, I'm elated. My main beef was learning that manufacturers were putting embedded fans over the chip set. The Hero ViIII, being the board of my choice, does not have an embedded fan over the chip set despite what I was told on the phone when I called ASUS support. The thing about the fans for the case is that they are not embedded fans. They can be easily replaced and that was my main concern.


We do have a little bit of a difference in thought here, my thing is why all the griping about fans in the first place when in some form you must have one working somewhere in the system? Be it directly on the chipset heatsink or a case fan moving air through the case letting a passive heatsink vent it's heat. 
The newest heatsinks with them would (ATM) be difficult to get a replacement for in how they are designed instead of the more traditional style of fan used.
Some board models like an ASRock Z77 OCF as an example have been said to be bad about it's VRM fan going bad in a short amount of time and it's a more traditional style of fan, being it's a 40mm unit. Mine so far works well and has yet to make any noise whatsoever, easily replaced if it ever does.




WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Which, again, is precisely my point: Having options. Personally, I would prefer to have both but certainly not if this means having no option. Again: It's about options, as I stated in my prior post. The very idea of having to send the system board back simply because the fan failed strikes me as a huge inconvenience. Actually, I did share one of my ideas with Asus (as I alluded to earlier in this thread) and I was told by engineering that they would be looking into it. I hope they werent' giving me lip service because my idea is sound and it readily addresses the very things you mention. There is also the option of water bllocking which I am not a big fan of but it shouldn't be ruled out and it should also be another option open to the user. If we can get kits for CPUs for this then we should be able to use kits for chip sets much the same way. Anything involving moving parts should be easy to replace. I did state (and I quote) "The fans are not such a big deal if they are 'optional' and replaceable" in the post just above yours.  I hope this clarfiies my concerns.


Yes, you've clarified them well and I too like options. 
I'm more of the type I won't make a fuss over a small fan going out. I'll fix it and be done with the problem instead of tearing all down, having to pack it up, ship it off and...... Wait.... Only to reassemble it all once it gets back and hope everything is OK.
Not to mention with RMA's you may not get the same board back, I've had that happen and the one received from RMA was DOA and it was "here we go again" with the previous only to wait.... Again. 

I can actually make my own heatsinks and have before, it's nothing I want to get into but can be done with a fan on it for good measure if I want.... Which I would want it of course. 

Fact is the manufacturers are just getting cheaper and cheaper while charging more for these boards made of cheaper materials too vs what was before, if the materials really are better with a given model that just jacks the price up even higher. 
That is something no one can honestly deny.


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Oct 16, 2019)

Bones said:


> We do have a little bit of a difference in thought here, my thing is why all the griping about fans in the first place when in some form you must have one working somewhere in the system? Be it directly on the chipset heatsink or a case fan moving air through the case letting a passive heatsink vent it's heat.
> The newest heatsinks with them would (ATM) be difficult to get a replacement for in how they are designed instead of the more traditional style of fan used.
> Some board models like an ASRock Z77 OCF as an example have been said to be bad about it's VRM fan going bad in a short amount of time and it's a more traditional style of fan, being it's a 40mm unit. Mine so far works well and has yet to make any noise whatsoever, easily replaced if it ever does.



To an extent I empathise with those who gripe about system boards that come with fans. ASUS TUF armour series uses mini fans in their design to move hot air through channels. I rather have my doubts as to how effective this is compared to good old-fashioned open air flow. I can only speak for myself when it comes to preferences in cooling but I certainly do like to have my options open. At least with those system boards (TUF Z87, Z97) the fans, even the armour, are removable. For me, if the fan is removable, replaceable, and upgradable there is little place for complaint. It's the under-handed proprietary tactics that bother me. Things like CPUs soldered to the boards, rivets that have to be drilled out, embedding etc. that annoy me as these methods are not very user friendly. :::sigh::: The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Obsoletion is the name of the game it seems.


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## Bones (Oct 16, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> To an extent I empathise with those who gripe about system boards that come with fans. ASUS TUF armour series uses mini fans in their design to move hot air through channels. I rather have my doubts as to how effective this is compared to good old-fashioned open air flow. I can only speak for myself when it comes to preferences in cooling but I certainly do like to have my options open. At least with those system boards (TUF Z87, Z97) the fans, even the armour, are removable.



I agree some of the ways it's being done probrably aren't implemented well vs the older way of doing things.



WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> For me, if the fan is removable, replaceable, and upgradable there is little place for complaint. It's the under-handed proprietary tactics that bother me. Things like CPUs soldered to the boards, rivets that have to be drilled out, embedding etc. that annoy me as these methods are not very user friendly. :::sigh::: The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Obsoletion is the name of the game it seems.



Same thing as it is within the auto industry - Almost nothing is "User Friendly" anymore related to doing basic maintenance. 
It's beyond a joke when you have to remove half of the top of the engine and then jack it up on one side just to get to a sparkplug for routine maintenance of that item. 
They could make things more friendly that way but then their service department woudn't get any business to quadriple charge you (If you get off that cheap) plus all that wonderful "Labor" for the same thing being done.

With boards it's all about the sales. 
You can't fix the problem you gotta buy a new one and that suits them just fine.


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## ShrimpBrime (Oct 16, 2019)

Gosh I remember when it was awesome that some top boards came with a blower style fan that clipped to the VRMs and a nice heat pipe for the NB.

Then its the complaint that the boards where to heavy and didnt appeal to people after a while.....

Now... Ohh LEDs and colors weeeeee...
15w with that small of aluminum heat sink is no good. So in preventing a buch of extra work in designing a massive cooler for the board that would not require a fan, they went the cheapest route for removing BTU. This also keeps end user costs down.

Do fans die and go bad? Yea they sure do. But chipset fans that will hardly ever reach 100% rpm probably last a long time.
Will one or two fans be bad or inop at purchase... Yea maybe a couple.... Out of thousands of boards maybe..... No big deal.
Cant please the entirety of people buying the board unfortunately, but then its a few out of thousands any ways.....


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Oct 17, 2019)

Bones said:


> I agree some of the ways it's being done probrably aren't implemented well vs the older way of doing things.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nothing to add to this, Bones. You nailed it.



ShrimpBrime said:


> Gosh I remember when it was awesome that some top boards came with a blower style fan that clipped to the VRMs and a nice heat pipe for the NB.
> 
> Then its the complaint that the boards where to heavy and didnt appeal to people after a while.....
> 
> ...



Wow. You're bringing back memories. I'm sure those blower fans of yore resulted in a substantial increase in headphone sales.  Some are already complaining that the Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme with the passive cooling is too heavy. Well, it's not like it was made for a lap top to be lugged around. Personally, I don't feel much like dolling out a grand Canadian for a main board. (Although I've come close to it a few times already.) On the bright side of it the Hero VIII does use a formidable fan backed by a warranty that's good for about 7 years if I'm not mistaken. If what Asus says is true about the way these boards are tested there shouldn't be too much cause for concern. Still, the fact that they don't run full bore may be what they're banking on and the fact remains that stuff happens. You said it yourself: that small of aluminum heat sink is no good. So if the fan fails? Once the warranty is off the board it may be an idea to remove the fan anyway and replace it with something serious. If we can trust the kind of temps we see in the photos Taiwan IC posted a Scythe cooler might just be the way to go. Those temps are just lovely for passive cooling but I'm not sure how good they might be under a full load. This also assumes there is enough room in the case for that sort of thing. I'm not positive that there will be in mine. But the stigma about not being able to replace the fan if it fails or to opt for some sort of alternative is gone thanks to Taiwan IC. No question about it. I'm getting the HERO. I wonder if it will be cheaper come Black Friday.


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## Taiwan IC (Oct 17, 2019)

[QUOTE =“ WHOFOUNDFUNGUS，帖子：4134720，成員：135234”]
. If we can trust the kind of temps we see in the photos Taiwan IC posted a Scythe cooler might just be the way to go
[/引用]


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Oct 17, 2019)

So. Instead of spending a ridiculous amount of bling-bling on an Aorus Xtreme thing IF one wanted genuine passive cooling that they could count on they could always install a HUGE tower cooler over the chip set and save themselves 3 or 4 hundred dollars Canadian. This would be the way to roll, especially if one happens to be a big Asus fan boi like me. No need to worry about what happens when the fan fails because there is no fan to fail. Myself, I'd prefer both. I'd want to attach those quiet fans on the Scythe just to step down temps even further. AND if any of the two fans failed so what? They can always be replaced. The heat sink is tending to the critical part of the job. The extra fans would only be icing on the cake. 

Taiwan IC Do you have any pictures of what it looks like on the back side of the motherboard with the Scythe cooler installed? Did you use the screws from the original fan or the screws that came with the Scythe cooler? Inquiring minds need to know! 



Taiwan IC said:


>


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## Kissamies (Oct 19, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> lol I almost missed the pun.  So much for "bleeding edge".DUMPSTER DIVER'S PC RECLAMATION


Hey, at least my fingers weren't bleeding.. 

My first delid was a Pentium G3258 which went also flawlessly with a razor


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Oct 19, 2019)

Funny you should mention the G3258. I've been working on a unit using one all this week. (It's for the 8 year old). That chip is yet another underrated CPU sometimes delivering speeds in excess of 5 GHz when properly overclocked. (Of course Intel hobbled the chip with a collaborative venture thanks to Microsoft Update via microcode.) That's their 20 Year Anniversary  edition if I'm not mistaken. So Windows users are not likely to see anything over 4GHz now on that chip unless they dodged the code. I have pictures of mine doing over 4 some place but that would involve an intensive search in my recovery files to find. The G3258 is a rather unique design being a Pentium Duo Core Haswell chip implementing bits and bytes of tech design used over the decades to the present.  Probably one of the best money could buy from Intel for under 100 bux. It used to be quite the celebrated chips among gamer class of users.  Funny. We both seem to be owning the same CPUs. Any chance you also own an i7 6900K?



WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> Funny you should mention the G3258. I've been working on a unit using one all this week. (It's for the 8 year old). That chip is yet another underrated CPU sometimes delivering speeds in excess of 5 GHz when properly overclocked. (Of course Intel hobbled the chip with a collaborative venture thanks to Microsoft Update via microcode.) That's their 20 Year Anniversary  edition if I'm not mistaken. So Windows users are not likely to see anything over 4GHz now on that chip unless they dodged the code. I have pictures of mine doing over 4 some place but that would involve an intensive search in my recovery files to find. The G3258 is a rather unique design being a Pentium Duo Core Haswell chip implementing bits and bytes of tech design used over the decades to the present.  Probably one of the best money could buy from Intel for under 100 bux. It used to be quite the celebrated chips among gamer class of users.  Funny. We both seem to be owning the same CPUs. Any chance you also own an i7 6900K?


Oh, I forgot to mention that just for kicks I ran a SAPPHIRE RX590 NITRO on that G3258 and it ran flawlessly. Since then I put the old Sapphire back. An 8 year old doesn't need a SAPPHIRE RX590 but she was my beta tester. She says it's a good card. 



WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> So. Instead of spending a ridiculous amount of bling-bling on an Aorus Xtreme thing IF one wanted genuine passive cooling that they could count on they could always install a HUGE tower cooler over the chip set and save themselves 3 or 4 hundred dollars Canadian. This would be the way to roll, especially if one happens to be a big Asus fan boi like me. No need to worry about what happens when the fan fails because there is no fan to fail. Myself, I'd prefer both. I'd want to attach those quiet fans on the Scythe just to step down temps even further. AND if any of the two fans failed so what? They can always be replaced. The heat sink is tending to the critical part of the job. The extra fans would only be icing on the cake.
> 
> Taiwan IC Do you have any pictures of what it looks like on the back side of the motherboard with the Scythe cooler installed? Did you use the screws from the original fan or the screws that came with the Scythe cooler? Inquiring minds need to know!



And then there's this...


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## heky (Oct 31, 2019)

@WHOFOUNDFUNGUS 

Just for the info. I just bought the MSI Prestige X570 Creation and the Chipset fan is not embedded. Its literally 4 small screws to remove the M.2 cooler and 3 more screws on the fan itself.


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Nov 2, 2019)

heky said:


> Just for the info. I just bought the MSI Prestige X570 Creation and the Chipset fan is not embedded. Its literally 4 small screws to remove the M.2 cooler and 3 more screws on the fan itself.




That's great news!   It's good to see MSI is still keeping their client base in mind. I've pretty much made my decision on the Hero however. I'm just waiting to see if the price will drop a little before I make my purchase. I build and rebuild PCs pretty much daily now so I always have my hands busy while I wait for that momentous day. That Prestige does look like a decent system board, a little pricey here in Canada, but reasonably under the cost of the KING (*GIGABYTE X570 AORUS XTREME*). The added touch that the Prestige offers with the M.2 expansion is a really good idea considering M.2 is the standard for those who value future proofing their builds, but there is another factor to consider which, IMO, is equally important: Personal preference.

I prefer the idea of the Q code logger in the top right of the board as opposed to the bottom edge. So much stuff is crammed down into the bottom edge of system boards these days as it is. I also like the more traditional method of plugging in the PSU although I'm sure in some cases the Prestige provides a superior approach here. Where I live LAN via cable is a whole lot faster than WiFi and that's how it is in most places in North America so WiFi is seriously optional for me. If I want it I can always get a card and because I live in a very remote location I can't really take advantage of high speed WiFi anyway. This is why I want the non-WiFi version of the Crosshair Hero and once again this is why having options is a serious consideration I alluded to in this thread. Besides, Buildzoid speaks highly of it and that in itself is rare.












Too be fair, I should add that Buildzoid's favorite MSI X570 is the PRESTIGE CREATION.


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## heky (Nov 4, 2019)

Yeah, the board was not my first choice either. I was eyeing either the Gigabyte Aorus Master or the Asus Crosshair VIII Hero, but i got a really good deal on the Creation and after watching Buildzoid making good comments on it, i made an impulse buy. I only paid 330€ for it and the normal retail price is around 480 - 500€. And i just love the fact the board also has 10G lan, so it should be quite future proof. (Am planing to upgrade my home network to 10G as soon as possible)


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Nov 4, 2019)

Yup. The Master isn't a half bad board either. I've cooled down some after getting on the blower with ASUS and venting about the whole fan-on-the-board thing. That was largely ASUS' fault: Their mobo technical department told me that the fan was embedded and if I removed it I would void the warranty. That led to an onslaught of emails to the CEO dept. and engineering compliments of yours truly. They shouldn't have b.s.'d me. I'm so glad Taiwan IC clued me in to the real deal. As long as the fan is removable and builder serviceable I'm good with it. ASUS likes to boast a user friendly experience but my view is that if the user cannot even replace a fan on the main board that's not very "user friendly".  Fans built into motherboards give me the heebiejeebies. I guess that's coz I'm a little old school and I remember those horrific days from the past. Guess I'm dating myself now.   Have you seen how the price on Thread Ripper has dropped? Hmmm... 10 G lan speed... Crazy fast. Can't get it here. I'm about a mile on the edge of wilderness. I photograph deer and moose in my back yard. lol


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## heky (Nov 5, 2019)

The 10G lan wont be for the internet connection anyway, its for the home network. It should really help since i am streaming 4K movies to my TV, plus listening to DSD music, plus downloading all at the same time.
Just bit the bullet on the 3900x...cant wait for the 3950x to launch anymore...so am really excited.


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Nov 5, 2019)

I don't doubt it for a minute. I would be excited too. For intranet I'm curious why you didn't opt for Thunderbolt. While we're on the subject I bumped into this gem boasting Thread Ripper. Seems too good to be true. https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/ASUS-ROG-ZENITH-EXTREME-AMD/PRD6YQXPXZ4991O


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## heky (Nov 5, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> I don't doubt it for a minute. I would be excited too. For intranet I'm curious why you didn't opt for Thunderbolt. While we're on the subject I bumped into this gem boasting Thread Ripper. Seems too good to be true. https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/ASUS-ROG-ZENITH-EXTREME-AMD/PRD6YQXPXZ4991O


OMG, take that board, NOW! For that price i would build a threadripper build in a heartbeat...


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Nov 6, 2019)

That was my first impulse. But on further investigation that feature-packed board infamously generates a ton of issues so I could be buying a very affordable migraine. The board has been discontinued. I'm sure Asus would still stand behind their product but I don't want another bout of headaches. It took me 5 R.M.A.s just to get the right board last time. Don't get me wrong, I love my work station but I find EATX to be a little challenging on the production end of things — it's either really good or it's a veritable nightmare. I'm guessing this is the deal with the ZENITH EXTREME. I want to build a gaming PC for myself. I've built so many PCs for others. Ironically, I have never built myself a gaming PC. Work Stations, yes. All purpose PCs, yes. Servers, business, standard domestic etc. sure. But for myself, I have never built a gamer PC. Thread Ripper has never struck me as being a gaming platform; but man, what a price!


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Nov 22, 2019)

*I did it. . . I pulled the trigger. Now I need to decide if I want the 3800x , or the 3900x, or the 3950... And of course, the best RAM for that combination.*


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## heky (Nov 22, 2019)

WHOFOUNDFUNGUS said:


> *I did it. . . I pulled the trigger. Now I need to decide if I want the 3800x , or the 3900x, or the 3950... And of course, the best RAM for that combination.*


Nice! Happy for you.
I just got this delivered today:



Its the 3900x...now i am thinking about what RAM sticks to get...should i get some 32gb 2x16 b-die...or just get the cheapest 3600 cl 16 kit, and call it a day?!


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Nov 22, 2019)

Decisions, decisions. Did you see the video where Wendell advises to avoid getting the 3900x? Yeah, I'm really up in the air on the RAM myself. Some say those high latencies are fine with Ryzen 7 but I have some reservations myself. Definitely want to go with 64 GB but those latencies are niggling at me. * OH* And congrats to you also!


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## heky (Nov 22, 2019)

Haven't seen any videos of advice against the 3900x, only the oposite. What would be the reason not to get one?


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## WHOFOUNDFUNGUS (Nov 22, 2019)

I really don't recall Wendell's reason. I do know that Gamer's Nexus wasn't overly impressed with the 3800x. I suppose it really comes down to what one would be using it for. Myself, I already have a work station but I've never owned my own gaming PC. That was the reason AMD caught my eye in the first place as I wasn't interested in building myself another PC with the Spectre/Meltdown vulnerability. For gaming even the 3800x might be over kill :::sigh::: Decisions, decisions.


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