# ethernet over powerline



## Easy Rhino (Nov 10, 2010)

has anyone used this technology? i am looking into buying a pair of EoP for about $100 but i would like to hear some testimonials. i have read a few around the net but would like to hear them here.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 10, 2010)

I've used several setups.

The 85Mb/s kits are good enough for pretty much anything you will need.  File transfers went at about 5-6MB/s, and streaming 1080p content was a breeze.  These were definitely way faster than Wireless G.

The 200Mb/s kits essentially give you the same speeds as a direct 100Mb/s ethernet cable, maybe slightly slower but nothing noticeable.

Belkin just put out a Gigabit Powerline kit, and I've really wanted to try that out.  The best part is that it is only $120, so it isn't really that much more expensive than a 200Mb/s kit.

You do have to remember that these devices are half-duplex.  So a 200Mb/s kit really gives 100Mb/s in each direct, which matches perfectly with 100Mb/s ethernet.


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## 95Viper (Nov 10, 2010)

I use one to run an AP upstairs.  Been running for two years now.  Both (AP and EOP\Powerline\Homeplug) are Trendnet devices.

No problems in all that time and keeps up with my wired stuff.  I can play HD video, live TV, etc. with no problems.  I have run a laptop, Wii, netbook, and nephew plays with his psp handheld off it.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 10, 2010)

power over ethernet is not the same thing as ethernet over power, correct?


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## 95Viper (Nov 10, 2010)

Correct...

EOP( ethernet over power-line ) is exactly that. You plug a master in one electrical outlet and the other or others( there can be more than one, some will do twelve or so ) into the electrical outlet or outlets where you need the connection.

POE (power over ethernet) sends data\power to devices over wires\cable (usually, Cat5 or better).

Sorta a simple explanation.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 10, 2010)

95Viper said:


> Correct...
> 
> EOP( ethernet over power-line ) is exactly that. You plug a master in one electrical outlet and the other or others( there can be more than one, some will do twelve or so ) into the electrical outlet or outlets where you need the connection.
> 
> ...



ok cool cause you mentioned your POE setup and i thought maybe i was being confused.


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## 95Viper (Nov 10, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> ok cool cause you mentioned your POE setup and i thought maybe i was being confused.



Oops, sorry: fixed!
Dyslexic tonight.

I use this.  Always better when I use pictures.


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## bogmali (Nov 10, 2010)

POE is something that is a feature on a switch. 

I have powerline in my house and it's awesome. It doubles (almost triples) my wireless speed when streaming. I have Linksys but am in the process of switching them out in favor of these:

http://www.plasternetworks.com/


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## 95Viper (Nov 10, 2010)

Do you have some or are just thinking of trying it?


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## t_ski (Nov 10, 2010)

I just bought this set:

http://www.staples.com/Netgear-Powerline-AV-200-Adapter/product_853552?cmArea=search_rr

Hooking it up is plug and play.  I'm using it right now to bring network from my basement (where my cable modem and AP/router are) to my TV upstairs.  I'm planning on moving the access point upstairs also, as soon as I get a new switch downstairs.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 10, 2010)

t_ski said:


> I just bought this set:
> 
> http://www.staples.com/Netgear-Powerline-AV-200-Adapter/product_853552?cmArea=search_rr
> 
> Hooking it up is plug and play.  I'm using it right now to bring network from my basement (where my cable modem and AP/router are) to my TV upstairs.  I'm planning on moving the access point upstairs also, as soon as I get a new switch downstairs.



if i get some time this weekend i will pick it up. of course i need to sell some things in my damned FS thread :shadedshu


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## 95Viper (Nov 10, 2010)

You have a PM ER!


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## t_ski (Nov 10, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> if i get some time this weekend i will pick it up. of course i need to sell some things in my damned FS thread :shadedshu



Given the price of the one I bought, you might look into the gigabit Belkin solution for only $10 more...


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## Mussels (Nov 10, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> I've used several setups.
> 
> The 85Mb/s kits are good enough for pretty much anything you will need.  File transfers went at about 5-6MB/s, and streaming 1080p content was a breeze.  These were definitely way faster than Wireless G.
> 
> ...



^ thats what i was going to say, about the half speeds. you beat me to it.

its more expensive than wireless, but has different limitations - for example, it works better through obstructions, doesnt require wifi cards/USB sticks in the recevier devices (great for consoles/dumb devices) and cant be hacked by your neighbours and a laptop.


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## Kreij (Nov 10, 2010)

This technology does not seem to be very widespread in the consumer market, which is surprising as it seems to be a no-brainer option when determining household ethernet setups. Especially in pre-existing homes that have no cable installed in the walls.

Are there other limitations? Will this still function if one of the outlets is a ground fault outlet?
Will it work if one of the breakers in the electrical box is a GF and the master is on another curcuit ?
How succeptible are these devices to electrical surge or line noise?


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## human_error (Nov 10, 2010)

I've been using a set of 3 for over a year and a half now and am really pleased with them. In fact only my consoles and laptops are on wireless - all static computers and TVs are plugged into the ethernet over power plugs i have (with a couple of ethernet switches in between so i can use multiple devices per plug).

I believe you have to be over the same circuit board for them to work and you'll want to get ones with password encryption if you live in shared accomodation (university halls etc with multiple people per circuit board) otherwise anyone can access them (the same as if you used open wifi). Most the good, branded ones have encryption/password options if that's the case.

As for how do they deal with power surges i don't know - all of mine are through surge protectors anyway in case anything does happen.


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## Yukikaze (Nov 10, 2010)

They aren't bad wifi replacements, but their transfer rates are still pretty poor. If you have the option to use a wired 1Gbps connection, it is definitely superior.


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## Kreij (Nov 10, 2010)

Sure a direct wired connection is going to be a superior option. But ...

Let's say I want to run ethernet into my living room ...
and let's say that I don't want cables that are visible ...
and let's say that I just had 18 inches of cellulose insulation blown into my attic so the pain of working in that environment is similar to having your spleen removed with knitting needles while sitting in your own excrement and setting your feet on fire and watching them burn.

EoP looks pretty good in that case.


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## human_error (Nov 10, 2010)

Well the only thing i tend to want to use my EOP for is streaming 1080P video content between my various devices - I can't get a good solid stream using wifi but i have no problems at all with EOP.


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## Yukikaze (Nov 10, 2010)

Kreij said:


> Sure a direct wired connection is going to be a superior option. But ...
> 
> Let's say I want to run ethernet into my living room ...
> and let's say that I don't want cables that are visible ...
> ...



I never said it doesn't have its uses. Just noting that if the wired option exists, it is definitely better as far as transfer rates go.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 10, 2010)

Yukikaze said:


> I never said it doesn't have its uses. Just noting that if the wired option exists, it is definitely better as far as transfer rates go.



Well with the 200Mb/s adatpers, they definitely are slower than a Gigabit ethernet connection.  However, now that there are Gigabit versions, I wonder how much of a difference there really is.  Yes, they will still be slower, especially if you are running them over multiple circuits, but the speed should still be pretty fast.

DO NOT PLUG THEM INTO SURGE PROTECTORS!  This is usually burried somewhere in the manual, but it should always be there.  The way surge protectors work _can_ cause the adapters to have extremely bad speeds.  With my 200Mb/s kit, when I accidently plugged one into a surge protector my speeds were below 1Mb/s(Yes, bit not byte). Moving it directly to an outlet fixed the speeds.  I believe it is usually the cheaper surge protectors that cause this problem.

I haven't had any problems with GFCI outlets or circuits causing problems, though we only have those in the bathrooms and kitchen, so I really don't have a need to plug the adapter directly into them.

One of the advantages of these over wireless, besides the speed, is that it is easy to plug multiple devices into one unit.  The main reason I got mine was so that I could run one from my basement where my router is to my living room where my TV/Xbox/PS3/Media PC was located.  I had to plug the Xbox, PS3, and Media PC all into it.  So a simple 5-port switch was all I needed to get all of them running with a wired connection.  No need to buy a wireless adapter for the Xbox or Media PC, so it kind of paid for itself.


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## _JP_ (Nov 10, 2010)

Subbed, because I'm also thinking of getting  a kit.


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## mtosev (Nov 10, 2010)

I use a Trust NW-7800 and it works great. i didn't expect it to work as well as it is working for now. no problems whatsoever


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## Kreij (Nov 10, 2010)

The Kreijster said:
			
		

> Sure a direct wired connection is going to be a superior option. But ...





			
				The Yukster said:
			
		

> I never said it doesn't have its uses. Just noting that if the wired option exists, it is definitely better as far as transfer rates go.



I think we're on the same page, my friend.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 10, 2010)

i am with kreij. it seems that this kind of hardware would be widespread and would put wireless out of business.  there has to be some limitation i dont know about! regardless, i am definitely getting a set!


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## t_ski (Nov 10, 2010)

I think one limitation is that it supports up to 8 devices.  IIRC, wireless is double that per AP.  And the half-duplex signal can become a factor if you have several devices all on the network at the same time trying to load things up.  For me, I don't plan on having that much of my network rely on this, and I would prefer a wired solution anyday, but this looks to be ideal for the circumstances I'm using it for now.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 10, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> i am with kreij. it seems that this kind of hardware would be widespread and would put wireless out of business.  there has to be some limitation i dont know about! regardless, i am definitely getting a set!



I think part of the issue is that the technology is still relatively new to the consumer market.

And of course the big limitation is that you are still stuck with a wire, you can't just pick up your laptop and go anywhere with it.



t_ski said:


> I think one limitation is that it supports up to 8 devices.  IIRC, wireless is double that per AP.  And the half-duplex signal can become a factor if you have several devices all on the network at the same time trying to load things up.  For me, I don't plan on having that much of my network rely on this, and I would prefer a wired solution anyday, but this looks to be ideal for the circumstances I'm using it for now.



It is limitted to 8 EOP devices.  However, you can plug a switch into a EOP device and connect as many computers as you want to it.  So if you have 3 devices in the same area you only need 1 EOP devices for them.  Yeah, all the devices would then have to share the 200Mb/s connection, but it would still be a hell of a lot faster than a Wireless connection and more reliable too.


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## t_ski (Nov 10, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> It is limitted to 8 EOP devices.  However, you can plug a switch into a EOP device and connect as many computers as you want to it.  So if you have 3 devices in the same area you only need 1 EOP devices for them.  Yeah, all the devices would then have to share the 200Mb/s connection, but it would still be a hell of a lot faster than a Wireless connection and more reliable too.



Agreed, and that is the same way I plan on connecting multiple devices at my home.


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## WarEagleAU (Nov 10, 2010)

I love the EoP. I got a pair to use for my Direct TV Receiver and network that to my Xbox 360 and I have been in love with it ever since. I do have slower than normal speeds due to the condition of the wiring in the house. When I build my new home in 3 years, that will of course change


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## 95Viper (Nov 10, 2010)

Just a little info.

My trendnet powerline supports 15 powerline adapters...

Connect one 200Mbps* Powerline AV Adapter to the Internet and then plug in up to 15 additional adapters for instant building connectivity

The new TrendNet 500Mbps Powerline AV Adapter Kit, model TPL-401E2K, when it comes out will use one to transmit and up to 15* TPL-401Es to receive a networked signal

Of couse, with anything such as this... you are sharing the bandwidth, so, you know the drill.

It varies with the units and manufacturer.


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## headshot119 (Nov 10, 2010)

Note that if you use Digital broadcast radio, then I don't recommend EOP, it causes terrible interference.


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## MatTheCat (Nov 11, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> has anyone used this technology? i am looking into buying a pair of EoP for about $100 but i would like to hear some testimonials. i have read a few around the net but would like to hear them here.



Yep..I use the D-Link DHP303's to connect my gaming PC with the router in the front room (I refuse to radiate myself with wireless microwave radiation)......

.....for everything I need it for, it works flawlessly and without a quibble. Mind u, living in the middle of the countryside (in the UK), my internet connection is not exactly 'futuristic'. 6MB Download, 350KB Upload, 35 Ping to British servers.

......neither my connection, ping, jitter changes from when I test the line on the router.


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## Mussels (Nov 11, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> i am with kreij. it seems that this kind of hardware would be widespread and would put wireless out of business.  there has to be some limitation i dont know about! regardless, i am definitely getting a set!



bandwidth is shared between all the devices, so the more of these you add, the slower the whole thing gets,


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## t_ski (Nov 11, 2010)

Another gigabit contender:

http://emm.msi.com/display.php?M=18032&C=0048872bc256c1c02e69bfe9b2e96339&S=598&L=34&N=613


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## Mussels (Nov 11, 2010)

t_ski said:


> Another gigabit contender:
> 
> http://emm.msi.com/display.php?M=18032&C=0048872bc256c1c02e69bfe9b2e96339&S=598&L=34&N=613



dont forget the half speed issues, thats 1000Mb half duplex, so 500Mb in reality.
i suppose the key to this model is that it uses gigabit ports on the devices, as opposed to 100Mb ports.

sure, its faster than all the others - but it hardly matches gigabit.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 11, 2010)

Mussels said:


> dont forget the half speed issues, thats 1000Mb half duplex, so 500Mb in reality.
> i suppose the key to this model is that it uses gigabit ports on the devices, as opposed to 100Mb ports.
> 
> sure, its faster than all the others - but it hardly matches gigabit.



Yeah, but if you are transferring a large file in one direction, it will be pretty close to Gigabit.  You are really only going to notice the difference if you are transferring files in both directions at the same time.


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## Mussels (Nov 11, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> Yeah, but if you are transferring a large file in one direction, it will be pretty close to Gigabit.  You are really only going to notice the difference if you are transferring files in both directions at the same time.



i thought it was the same as wifi, where it doesnt work that way. 150Mb wirelss N only gets you 75Mb transfer speeds (approx 8.5MB/s in my testing)


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## t_ski (Nov 11, 2010)

Usually wireless speed is halved by encryption, then sometimes halved again by interference, obstructions, etc.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 11, 2010)

Mussels said:


> i thought it was the same as wifi, where it doesnt work that way. 150Mb wirelss N only gets you 75Mb transfer speeds (approx 8.5MB/s in my testing)



With the Half Dublex of wired networking/EOP it is 1000Mb in one direction only.  So to send data back and forth it has to constantly switch directions.  If data is all flowing in one direction it will get close to 1000Mb, with a little slow down due to sending the small recieved/acknowledge packets back.

Wireless speeds are so slow for numerious reasons, I don't believe it is actually half duplex.


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## Flak (Nov 11, 2010)

I think I saw newtekie mention this... But just want to throw this out there again.  EOP do not work well (some people have zero luck) if you have AFCI breakers, which many newer house builds do.

Unlike newtekie, I have never had luck streaming my movies with 6channel audio over the 85mb kits without stuttering.  However, they do work fine with the 200mb kits.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 11, 2010)

cool. 95viper is sending me his kit so i cant wait to test! the pc it will be attached to is just a typical office computer for browsing, youtube, hulu, etc


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## t_ski (Nov 12, 2010)

Flak said:


> EOP do not work well (some people have zero luck) if you have *AFCI *breakers, which many newer house builds do.



You mean GFCI?  Building codes around me only say that those have to be used within so many feet of water (sinks, tubs, etc.).


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## Delta6326 (Nov 12, 2010)

these sound like fire hazards messing with electrical work and stuff but im probably wrong just doesn't sound safe. but it is cool


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## 95Viper (Nov 12, 2010)

Flak said:


> I think I saw newtekie mention this... But just want to throw this out there again.  EOP do not work well (some people have zero luck) if you have AFCI breakers, which many newer house builds do.
> 
> Unlike newtekie, I have never had luck streaming my movies with 6channel audio over the 85mb kits without stuttering.  However, they do work fine with the 200mb kits.





t_ski said:


> You mean GFCI?  Building codes around me only say that those have to be used within so many feet of water (sinks, tubs, etc.).



Flak is speaking of GFCI breakers in the distribution panel, not outlets; and the breakers should not affect the data. They, usually, do not filter the frequencies the devices use.

I apologize to Flak.

It seems that he is referring to exactly what he said and I have learned something new.  As, I did not know they were installing these in new construction in some locations.

Arc-Fault Circuit Interrupter Breakers
Arc-fault circuit interrupter

And, it seems, that they monitor a certain waveform pattern that electrical arcs create...  It may be possible they can interfere with powerline devices.  Hmmmm, more investigation is called for.

As, this tester showed there is a loss of speed and connectivity,  this was a test done in August of 2009, between a NetGear unit and Belkin - with and without AFCI.



Delta6326 said:


> these sound like fire hazards messing with electrical work and stuff but im probably wrong just doesn't sound safe. but it is cool



No more so, than... the power bricks or PSU you plug in the wall.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 13, 2010)

i got these...

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-...100KTA.S_11002_7000000000000005702#tabsection

and have to say they work well instead of using wireless g from 25 feet away!


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 13, 2010)

update: when they work they are very fast. however i notice that the terminal will lose a signal and i have to unplug it and plug it back in to get internet back. i know that sometimes interference can be an issue. i am trying to narrow it down. the terminal is plugged directly into the wall and the only other thing connect to that wall outlet is a powerstrip with the PC, lamp and speakers connected.


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## MatTheCat (Nov 13, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> update: when they work they are very fast. however i notice that the terminal will lose a signal and i have to unplug it and plug it back in to get internet back. i know that sometimes interference can be an issue. i am trying to narrow it down. the terminal is plugged directly into the wall and the only other thing connect to that wall outlet is a powerstrip with the PC, lamp and speakers connected.



If it is any help...I had to do this at first with mine.....but after a few times....they just started to work 100% and I have never had any bother ever since. 

Maybe not the technical opinion that u were looking for  but, maybe they just need to settle in properly


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## 95Viper (Nov 13, 2010)

Here are some sites with do s \ don't s, troubleshooting, etc.
May give you some helpful leads.

General Homeplug troubleshooting
HD-PLC Adaptor faqs
HD-PLC Adaptor faqs 2
HD-PLC Adaptor faqs 3
BLPA100KTA manual in pdf
Recommended Configuration for Best Performance
Not Recommended -Electrical Interference-
House Verification Result of PA100


Is your lamp you have plugged or any lamps near(same leg) touch lamps, could cause interference.  But, so could other stuff, as stated in some of the pages linked.


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## Flak (Nov 13, 2010)

Touch lamps and dimmers on the same circuit usually cause havoc.....


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 13, 2010)

yea i read through some of the toubleshooting advice. i am trying a whole bunch of different methods to get it to stay connected. i know for certain that in the same room on a different outlet it stays connected. now i am slowly moving farther away.


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## 95Viper (Nov 13, 2010)

Yep, it is nice when it works right out of the box, but, if, you have a problem(interference) it is a pain in the _______ to troubleshoot, sometimes.
As, it could be something, as simple as, a cell phone charging or faulty wiring\connections or a microwave or the neighbor's equipment  or...


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 13, 2010)

95Viper said:


> Yep, it is nice when it works right out of the box, but, if, you have a problem(interference) it is a pain in the _______ to troubleshoot, sometimes.
> As, it could be something, as simple as, a cell phone charging or faulty wiring\connections or a microwave or the neighbor's equipment  or...



so far so good. i am using the outlet on the wall next to where all of the PC/Stereo stuff is connected.


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## 95Viper (Nov 13, 2010)

Sounds, to me, like a kid with a new toy.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 13, 2010)

95Viper said:


> Sounds, to me, like a kid with a new toy.



bah, my wife opened the garage door which is on the other side of the house and it disconnected!


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## 95Viper (Nov 15, 2010)

How's it going?

Yep, random noise, caused by motors and relays could result in that.  You could try a filter(on the garage door power), but that would be a maybe or not proposition.
But, don't be dis-heartened, as the set I sent you, to try out, was the first Generation or Version 1.0.
Don't be put off by it, as the newer versions will have a vast number of improvements.

Or, go manual on the garage door... just kidding


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 15, 2010)

the terminal keeps dropping the PLC connection. not sure why. i have not messed with it in a couple of days as i have been working on ways to boost the wireless signal from my router.


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## Roger (Mar 28, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> has anyone used this technology? i am looking into buying a pair of EoP for about $100 but i would like to hear some testimonials. i have read a few around the net but would like to hear them here.




Hi, 
Fyi...I have use these units (WD Livewire adapters) and found that so far this are the best powerline communication adapters to date (througput rate about 60's Mbps on the highest reading, may drop to about 40's Mbps if your powerline is noisy). 
The pricing now if you surf around in the internet is about slightly below $100.
Make sure that the seller have a 30 days return policy ya! If the units do not work as you expected or to your satisfaction, then return it.  
Below kindly find the review from CNet for your kind perusal. 
http://reviews.cnet.com/bridges/western-digital-wd-livewire/4505-3304_7-34161837.html
Cheers!


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