# Ordered a Sapphire X850XT AGP but received X850 PRO!?!?



## jcc39 (Nov 22, 2006)

~11-28 update

I ordered a Sapphire X850XT AGP card from Newegg.  It is THIS card that I got. I received it on 11-22 and installed it and downloaded the latest drivers from ATI.  According to Windows, Catalyst Control Center, and ATI Tool I received a X850 PRO NOT an X850XT.  According to the box and the product page I ordered it from it should have 16 Pixel Pipes.  Well mine only had 12 Active Pixel Pipes, and clocks were at 500/500.  Most definately NOT the X850XT, but instead a regular X850PRO

According to several other posters on multiple forums, they have also received Sapphire X850XT labeled cards from Newegg which were really X850 pro cards.  I have contacted Newegg about my purchase and they offered to replace or refund the full price I payed PLUS a credit for the return shipping since we received the incorrect cards to begin with.  I have also been in touch with Sapphire Tech and gave all my card specs and details including pictures, and they said I have a problem with my card and offered to replace it, but I think I have to pay for the return shipping.  So far I have had a pleasant experience contacting both Newegg and Sapphire about the issue and am quite satisfied with their responses.  So if any of you have problems don't hesitate to contact Newegg to get your money back as I don't think they have any replacement cards in stock.  That is probably your easiest route if you don't want to deal with flashing, overclocking, uprading cooling and or tweaking your card.

Being the tweak head that I am and going against advice from some users and my better judgement I have deceided to follow suggestions from dolf here at techpowerup to flash my BIOS to either X850Pro 16 pipes, X850XT or X850XT PE.  I was able to flash my card to an X850XT with true 16PP and 520/540 clocks.  There are several utilities such as ATI Tool and or 3D Mark benchmarks which you can use to test the stability of the card.  YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) so it can't be guaranteed that your card will also flash with no problems or that it will overclock to XT or PE speeds.  Also I know for a fact that some regular X850 Pro AGP cards CAN'T be unlocked, as I had one a while ago, but nobody knows for sure with these X850pro packaged as X850XT cards, but so far I have not heard of anyone not being able to unlock their card from Newegg. ***Please note you are voiding your warranty and nobody takes any responsibility for flashing or overclocking your card but YOU. Knowing that I will post the instructions provided by Dolf below:

"Use the automated flash utility for X850PRO VIVO AGP containing X850PRO 16 pipe, X850XT and X850XT PE BIOSes:

http://www.savefile.com/projects/738578

My advice is to unlock the card (X850PRO 16 pipe or X850XT BIOS) and to test it for max core/memory. After that if it can handle the XT PE speeds to flash it with PE BIOS. Keep it but look for ATISilencer 5 because with single slot cooler you need to use X850PRO 16 pipe BIOS."

Some users have reported receiving cards with single slot coolers much like the regular X850Pro AGP cards, while others like myself have received the Dual slot coolers that usually come on the X850XT AGP cards.  This really becomes an issue if you decide to overclock your core and memory.  Some users with the single slot cooling have found that after flashing to XT or XT PE speeds, that the card is running very hot and may be failing because of the heat.  Seems like the dual slot coolers are holding up a little better as they cool much better than the single slot solution but at the cost of alot more noise.  The ATI Silencer 5 Rev 2 has been recommended by many as a solid cooling solution comparable to the dual slot cooler but much quiter even at full speed.  With my stock dual slot cooler and X850XT bios 520/540mhz, I get about 30-40C at idle and 60-70C at load with fan at 100%(loud as heck) and temp readings from ATI tool.


Below are my card specs and details BEFORE flashing the Bios for others to compare if they are having the same problem.

Under windows display properties it recognizes my card as a X850 PRO AGP  (0x4B4B). Says the BIOS is 113-A47503-103.

Sticker on the card and box says the PN is 102-A47505-01-XX, while the PN on the PCB is 109-A47501-00

Now under ATI tool I have the following settings:

Catalyst Version 6.11
Device ID 4B4B
Chip Type R481
Memory Size 256 MB
Memory Bus Width 256 bit
Active Pipelines 12
Default GPU Clock 500.00...
Default Mem Clock 500.00...
CONFIG_DIE FUSES 0XFFFFF...
CONFIG_SUBSTRATE_FUSES 0xFFFFF...
CONFIG_ROM_FUSES 0x861
GB_PIPE_SELECT 0x2724

Info under ATI Catalyst Control Center is:

BIOS Version 009.008.001.004
BIOS Part Number 113-a47503-103
BIOS Date 2005/02/08

Many have advised to return the card first since I did not get what I paid for but I was able to the flash my card with no problems and played all the latest games over the Thanksgiving break.  Good luck to all, and please post if you have any new info or problems getting a refund, replacement and or flashing/overclocking the card and we will try to help.  Thanks


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## Grings (Nov 22, 2006)

return it, and dont accept any gumph about how its as good, the xt is a 16 pipeline card, however dacs are (nearly?) allways 400mhz


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## micron (Nov 22, 2006)

Why are people still ordering these cards when there are already ps3.0 "only" games hitting the market?

I'm not an nVidia fan, but an agp 7600GT would be the _least_ I would settle for if I was shopping for a low-end card.


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## InfDamarvel (Nov 22, 2006)

Well there is only 1 shader model 3.0 game on the market and they pretty much are going to skip over SM3.0 games and go straight to Sm4.0 I believe.


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## Batou1986 (Nov 22, 2006)

yea u got riped thats  a pro heres my printout from my x850xtpe agp

DevID 4b4c

Chipname R481
Host interface Agp 
CatVer 6.11
memory size 256
mem type ddr3
mem bus bandwidth 256 bit
active pipes 16
default clocks 540/590

Config_die_fuses:          0xFFFFFFFF
Config_substrate_fuses: 0xFFFFFF9F
Config_rom_fuses:         0xA60
GB_pipe_select:            0x3FE4

u got wrong bios to be sure 

Video BIOS Information        
Version                       009.008.001.004
Part Number                   113-A47501-101
Date                          2005/01/18 23:54
Vram Type                     DDR3

when u do get a real x850xt get rid of that stock leaf blower and get an arctic cooler that stock cooler is EFFFFF'n LOUD


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## jcc39 (Nov 22, 2006)

Does anyone know where I can find the correct BIOS, the Sapphire X850XT AGP BIOS.  I used ATI Tool and was able to OC up to 585/610 or so, so I'm thinking it can handle the clocks, just need to somehow unlock the last 4 pipes to get 16.  I'm gonna try and flash it first before returning it.  My current settings under Catalyst Control Center are:

BIOS Version         009.008.001.004
BIOS Part Number 113-a47503-103
BIOS Date             2005/02/08

Any help is appreciated.  Thanks again.


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## dolf (Nov 22, 2006)

Use the automated flash utility for X850PRO VIVO AGP containing X850PRO 16 pipe, X850XT and X850XT PE BIOSes:

http://www.savefile.com/projects/738578

My advice is to unlock the card (X850PRO 16 pipe or X850XT BIOS) and to test it for max core/memory. After that if it can handle the XT PE speeds to flash it with PE BIOS. Keep it but look for ATISilencer 5 because with single slot cooler you need to use X850PRO 16 pipe BIOS.


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## lemonadesoda (Nov 22, 2006)

@jcc... flash it and lose your warranty. return it now. overclock the XT. Dont waste your time with the Pro. What happens if one of the quads is dead? Then you are screwed. Dead card, no warranty.

I suspect you have been sold a "return". Someone probably "swapped" the card and no one noticed.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 22, 2006)

jcc39 said:


> Does anyone know where I can find the correct BIOS, the Sapphire X850XT AGP BIOS.  I used ATI Tool and was able to OC up to 585/610 or so, so I'm thinking it can handle the clocks, just need to somehow unlock the last 4 pipes to get 16.  I'm gonna try and flash it first before returning it.  My current settings under Catalyst Control Center are:
> 
> BIOS Version         009.008.001.004
> BIOS Part Number 113-a47503-103
> ...



Don't mess with the BIOS, return that card ASAP before you void your warranty.


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## Batou1986 (Nov 22, 2006)

yea if you payed for  an x850 u should get an x850


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## jb3nny (Nov 22, 2006)

*hmm*

well on principle i agree with the people saying return before messing witht the card. However he can just flash it back to the original bios if the quad dosent open..


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## dolf (Nov 22, 2006)

jcc39 the card will unlock and you should test it befor to return it. You can close the pipes using the very same utility which will open the quad  . It is possible to get better overclocker (X850PRO) than the expected X850XT  . Just the cooling should be problem but based on my experience the original XT dual slot cooler is very noisy and you have to replace it with ATI Silencer 5 rev.2 for instance. Just use X850PRO 16 pipe BIOS in the beggining.


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## vraxoin (Nov 23, 2006)

lemonadesoda said:


> I suspect you have been sold a "return". Someone probably "swapped" the card and no one noticed.



No, these are sealed and "properly" labeled cards.  I just received one of these cards and posted a lengthy response, with pics, to *jcc39*'s post over at the Sapphire forum.  Check it out:

http://www.sapphiretech.com/en/forums/showthread.php?t=8822&page=1&pp=10

Even though I'm the type who would normally try to unlock this card and get an Arctic Cooling 5 cooler for it, that doesn't make it right that Sapphire is producing these, even as a close out.  At least with the X800GTO AGP cards you were sometimes getting more than you expected either core-wise, OC, or both.  Here, you're not even getting what you paid for.  That's a serious "WTF?!", right there.


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## jcc39 (Nov 23, 2006)

Thanks for the info Dolf and others.  I've decided to try to flash the card before returning it since the whole reason I got it was so I can play video games all through this Thanksgiving break instead of waiting for an RMA. 

I followed instructions posted using the auto flash utility.  It worked quickly and flawlessly, now my card is seen as an X850XT with 520/540 clocks with 16 active pipes but I'm still doing testing and benchmarks to see if it's stable or not.  Does anyone know if there are any good VGA benchmark utilities that I can use to stress test the card, like Prime but for VGA cards?  I've run it on the ATI Tool Artifact Scan for about 100 minutes with no errors.  Temps stayed under 66C the whole time which is pretty good I think for dual slot stock fan, but it is loud.  Does anyone know if the ATI Silencer 5 cooler covers the ram as well?  I also ran it through a couple 3DMark2003 and 2005s, and played a couple hours of Warcraft 3, BF2 and Counter Strike Source with no hiccups so far....  If it fails, I will just return it.  

I contacted Newegg, and they said I can return it and they will pay for the return shipping.  Hopefully it won't come to this but good to know they stand with the customer which is why I am a loyal customer to them.

Vraxion, thanks for the post as well, maybe this is not an isolated incident and is more widespread.  If anyone else have had the same issues as us please post so we can get to the bottom of this.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 23, 2006)

Try to run multiple passes of 3DMark05 or even 06 to stress test your card


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 23, 2006)

vraxoin said:


> At least with the X800GTO AGP cards you were sometimes getting more than you expected either core-wise, OC, or both.  Here, you're not even getting what you paid for.  That's a serious "WTF?!", right there.



Not the first time I hear Sapphire is doing that, some 6 months ago they shipped a whole batch of defective X800GTOs that would die after hours of normal use, lots of ppl reported getting the defective card within days of its release.

Unfortunately, I had bought one of them, and it died just after about 6 hours of normal use, then I had to RMA it to Newegg, they refund my money as they had to retire the whole batch and had no replacement cards in the meantime. 

I lost the taxes I paid for the card plus the shipping and handling for the RMA, which Newegg wont cover. How is Sapphire allowed to do this with total impunity is beyond me, I'm never buying a card from them again.


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## lemonadesoda (Nov 23, 2006)

I had a similar experience with Sapphire 18month ago with their 9800Pro.  Lasted a few days, then color stripes. Not artifacts, but stripes like a barbershop pole.

And it happened on the replacement card too!

So I upgraded to X800SE, which was actually a great improvement on the 9800Pro.

I now avoid Sapphire and go for other brands.


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## dolf (Nov 23, 2006)

jcc39 said:


> Thanks for the info Dolf and others.  I've decided to try to flash the card before returning it since the whole reason I got it was so I can play video games all through this Thanksgiving break instead of waiting for an RMA.
> 
> I followed instructions posted using the auto flash utility.  It worked quickly and flawlessly, now my card is seen as an X850XT with 520/540 clocks with 16 active pipes but I'm still doing testing and benchmarks to see if it's stable or not.  Does anyone know if there are any good VGA benchmark utilities that I can use to stress test the card, like Prime but for VGA cards?  I've run it on the ATI Tool Artifact Scan for about 100 minutes with no errors.  Temps stayed under 66C the whole time which is pretty good I think for dual slot stock fan, but it is loud.  Does anyone know if the ATI Silencer 5 cooler covers the ram as well?  I also ran it through a couple 3DMark2003 and 2005s, and played a couple hours of Warcraft 3, BF2 and Counter Strike Source with no hiccups so far....  If it fails, I will just return it.
> 
> ...



Look my advice is to find max. core/memory using ATITool. What to expect: for the core if it overclocks to 560-570MHz it is absolutely normal; the problem could be the memory which normaly should reach 570MHz or max. 580MHz. If you can reach 590 or even 600MHz without artifacts   then you have NO reason to even think about returning but for flashing of X850XT PE BIOS  . The stability of the memory should be tested with 3DMark03 (especially 2 of the tests: "Troll's Layer" and "Ragtroll") be carefull for white flickering polygons which will be indication for the memory overclock limit at the present voltage. The overclocking potential of the memory decreases with rising of the temperature (over 65-70C).

I just want to tell you that usually 1.6ns (600MHz) can't even work close to that 600MHz. Your can be clocked to 610MHz  and for sure the next time you can receive one with memory which couldn't go over 560MHz for instance. I had X800XT which couldn't overclock more than 560MHz before the voltmod. My current X850XT PE (originally X850PRO VIVO) couldn't pass over 570MHz on the memory (before the voltmod of course).
What is your original cooler - dual or single slot?


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## paul06660 (Nov 24, 2006)

*Yep, I got ripped off too, and Im pissed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

Hey I just bought a Sapphire x850XT as well from newegg on Friday morning at 1 a.m. on 11-17-06. I had just ordered a sapphire x800gto blue that people were saying was coming out of the box with 16 pixel piplines. I had to kill my order as fast as I could when I saw that the Sapphire x850xt was on sale 3 minutes after I placed that order. 12 hours later after I secured mine they sold out. Freakkin UPS got my card delayed in California over the weekend and I just got it the day before thanksgiving.

Ok, just like everyone else has been saying that they have been getting a Single Slot Card instead of the Dual slot card with the x850xt alien sticker on it, I got one too, and didnt know what the hell it was when I saw it sealed in the box.

My card looks exactly the x850pro that newegg has for sale here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102606
Except I have the alien x850xt sticker and no ATI logo on the board over the fan.
AND The sapphire logo sticker is on the 12v power connector and not on the board where the ATI logo was on the other card.

More messed up facts.
My card I received has all the stickers on the BACK of the board that say it is a x850XT  and the numbers match the box!!!
And on the box, it says clearly "16 parallel Pixel Piplines".
My box looks exactly like the one posted earlier as well.

Someone at Sapphire screwed up a big one here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had waited over a year for this card to come down from 500 bucks.
I wanted the x850xt or the x850 PE.
I have been noticing that the x850xt of any make, not just ATI and Sapphire has been getting hard as hell to find.
And when you do find an XT or XT PE you can still prepare to pay a price.

Newegg DID have the board shown as the one in the pictures that someone has posted earlier as well. This tells me that Newegg was too rushed to get this out for sale because they knew it would sell fast as hell, so they did not take the time to update their pictures of it.
Now we are stuck with these FREAK IMPOSTOR cards that are just x850pro's in discuise.

I think that the best thing is to RMA the card to Sapphire and get a new one.
Dont even mess with flashing your bios as if there are this many flaws just visible, there could be flaws in the circuits of the card.

I have an ATI x850pro in a customer's computer that has the SAME readings as my card.
500 mhz core, 500 mhz mem, 12 pixel pipes.  

I took the fan off of my card to look at the chip and it was inscribed x850 on the core, not x850xt like I thought it would be.

And for christ sake's why does the card go up to 75 degrees Celcius when I play a game, is it the shitty fan, or is it defective on the inside?
Does the Arctic silencer really work that good?

Well, thats about it for now, so here it goes......

P4 3.0E prescott
Epox EP-4PDA5+ Springdale Motherboard, i865PE chipset, 800 FSB, SIL3114 SATA controller, 
with a Western Digital 74gig Raptor for my custom 
Pirated Windows XP with service pack1.
Hitachi 250 SATA storage drive.
Patriot PSD1G400KH dual channel pc3200 2x512MB kit.
Complete Custom Raidmax case with custom UV paintjob and a 
550W Scythe Kamariki Power supply powering 14  fans and a Cooler Master Jet 4 on the processor.
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 powering a set of 8 channel matching Creative p7800 speakers.

And a Sapphire x850pro discuised as a Bastard child x850xt until I get ahold of Sapphire and get this BIG problem taken care of!!!!


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## Robkins (Nov 24, 2006)

I'm in this marketing scheme aswell... Newegg will accept RMA, but probably won't send me what I want. I'm thinking about contacting sapphire, although they will probably refer me back to Newegg... In that case its best to flash I guess... Anyone else have luck?


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## TUngsten (Nov 24, 2006)

I'm in the same boat, the x850pro I recieved is the 2-slot version identical to the layout of the x850xt

I easily flashed mine to the x850xt /16pipes, had no stability issues and later reflashed to xtpe specs. 2 hours of FEAR/Morrowind and no issues I could see, other than the temps: 75-80c...

My question is this:
What is the true difference between a flashed x850pro and an actual x850xt (or XTPE for that matter) if the r481 core is the same, the 1.6ns samsung ram is the same, the 2slot / cooling solution is the same...is there better testing done on the higher end ones? Are the x850pro cards w/12 pipes essentially defective 16pipe cores?

I'm inclined to keep mine since it performs quite nicely for the price, but would like to know what the REAL difference is.


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## dolf (Nov 25, 2006)

TUngsten said:


> I'm in the same boat, the x850pro I recieved is the 2-slot version identical to the layout of the x850xt
> 
> I easily flashed mine to the x850xt /16pipes, had no stability issues and later reflashed to xtpe specs. 2 hours of FEAR/Morrowind and no issues I could see, other than the temps: 75-80c...
> 
> ...



With dual slot cooler - there is one REAL and very "substantial" difference between X850PRO VIVO AGP and X850XT PE AGP and it is the label on the back side   .


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## TUngsten (Nov 25, 2006)

thx for the great flashing boot CD Dolf, and the reply.

So to answer my query - I essentially have a x850 xt pe?
There's no other distinction besides the bios? The models all share the same hardware?


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## paul06660 (Nov 25, 2006)

well thanks to Dolf's CD, I got mine to flash to the X850XT bios 520/540 very easily.
My windows immediatly saw it as an x850xt and Ati tool reported 16 pixel piplines.

I think that either Sapphire intended us to use our own choice of either x850pro, xt, or XTPE bios, or they just accidentally put on the x850pro bios.
My Need 4 Speed Carbon looks a little better now, too.

Now, anyone got any cooling solutions that acutally work good?
My temps with the stock fan at 100 percent are 42 no load and up to 80 on very heavy load!!!


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## dolf (Nov 25, 2006)

TUngsten said:


> thx for the great flashing boot CD Dolf, and the reply.
> 
> So to answer my query - I essentially have a x850 xt pe?
> There's no other distinction besides the bios? The models all share the same hardware?



Exactly the same hardware. One exception is Sapphire which are installing 16 pipe R481 (they have only 16 pipe cores left) and 2.0ns memory. This is the only X850PRO card with 2.0ns memory because probably that were the original intention (to have X850PRO card).
For all the other ATI partners and ATI the X850PRO VIVO AGP were just "side" product. X850XT PE which didn't succeed with the tests even for X850XT.

The difference could be between 2 equal cards with 1.6ns memory (in most cases that memory with the X850XT timings) can't even reach the specification of 600MHz - usually 560-570MHz. Card with 570MHz on the memory can't be sell for X850XT PE that's why the card is relabeled to X850PRO VIVO and flashed with X850PRO BIOS of course. But the core could be very good overclocker reaching 580-590MHz (normally the 16 pipe R481 at 1.4V can reach 560-570MHz).


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## alanafowlersr (Nov 25, 2006)

*Whats Going On?*

 I bought a x850xt from Newegg 3 weeks ago for $139.00 dollars good buy right?When i got it was  a 1 bay agp setup not a 2 bay setup like the x850xt should be but it had all the stickers on it and came in the X850XT box?Then i started checking it with the ATI tool 12 pipes? 500 core 500 mem its a pro?Well i RMA back the card and maid them over night a new one.The next day i got the new card checked  it out it had the x850xt box all the stickers on the card and wow a big 2 bay card with the big fan setup must be a x850xt WRONG ATI tool said 12 pipes 500 cpu 500 mem so i flashed it 2 a x850xt card with the cd thanks works the balls.Know i am running a x850xt ate 520 core 540 mem and the ATI toll says 16 pipes.Well i think i will keep it ate this point but the benchmark testing i did seamed a little low for this card well maybe its my 2.4 cpu with a 800 FSB?What do you think?What do you think the best drivers are for this card i am using ATI newest drivers 6.11 right now?Temp on cpu is 42-48 ate idle 68-74 under heavy load is that good?Tried to over clock past 520 core 540 mem and it did not like it 2 much started 2 run 2 hot and shut down system. I got the core 2 540 or so stable but temp went up not worth it 2 me same with the mem got it up 2 560 or so but got 2 hot not worth it 2 me again.SO now i sit and game with a x850pro or x850xt?What ever it is i guess it will have 2 do ore will it?


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## TUngsten (Nov 25, 2006)

I have the same 2slot card from Newegg, same x850pro upon installation. 

I flashed mine to x850xt pe bios, and was a little freaked the first night when running oblivion - the load temp was 80c! Idle was 42-44ish.

2 days later, however, it is barely cracking 65c load after an hour+ of FEAR, and sitting at 35/36c idle all day. Perhaps it's a burn-in issue, but i'm not sure. One thing i did though was move my side case fan from blowing in (at the GPU) to blowing out. It's a really soft wimpy fan, but I figured I'd turn it around since the x850 fan has rear exhaust. I can't imagine it's really responsible for the drastic temp improvement though.

It seems very happy at 540/590, so i'm gonna keep it  


I need to order more RAM from Newegg so perhaps i'll get an Arctic Cooling 5.2 as well...Damn stock fan is so loud my wife is even getting annoyed LOL
maybe I got lucky and I've gotten a doozy ripe for OC!

Again, thx to Dolf and W1zzard here for such fine resources


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 25, 2006)

To all ppl thinking that by flashing their cards you're getting what you paid for, I'm sorry to say this but that is not the case:

1. Flashing voids your warranty, even though it's a relatively safe method of obtaining a full 16pp video card these days, the fact is no manufacturer covers BIOS flashing with its warranty. Hardware failures can happen, and if by any chance you're unlucky to have a card that dies while still being covered by warranty, there's a chance, though slim that you may be caught when you RMA your card.

2. These cards have lower spec mem. 2.0ns memory is not rated to run at the same clocks as 1.6ns. Even if you overclock your mem to XT clocks, your memory is running over its spec and may be damaged. Besides, running at XT PE clocks is certainly out of the question, while most "true" X850XT owners can achieve the same clocks as the PE version.

I know it must be very frustrating to get something very different from what you ordered, and make no mistake, a X850Pro is not the same as a X850XT. Even if it has the same core, the lower rated memory won't allow you to get the full potential for your card.

My recommendation to all of you is to RMA your cards, flashing sure looks like a tempting alternative, but the truth is you paid for something you did not get, and you have the full right to ask for the product you paid for, or for a full refound.

That's my two cents.


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## Robkins (Nov 25, 2006)

Yeah except Newegg won't give you anything back, they don't have any True XTs for 140$, and I imagine they won't have any any time soon. So if you return the card you're back to step 1 - buying a decent priced/powered 3d card for the AGP slot. Guess which card that is? The X850 pro from Newegg; the same card that you just returned..... So I really only see 3 solutions for this problem: Contact Sapphire, Flash the card at your own risk, or just leave it as a x850 pro(might be a little hard to convince yourself when your box is right next to you).


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## TUngsten (Nov 25, 2006)

Is there a way to tell which memory modules (1.6 or 2.0ns) without opening the case/removing the HSF? Via the mem settings section of ATItool perhaps? I'm at 540/590 with no stability issues whatsoever


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## dolf (Nov 26, 2006)

Guys your X850PRO's are absolutely real X850XT's but unfortunately only Sapphire installes 2.0ns instead 1.6ns memory. In most cases with 2.0ns you will get more MHz instead 1.6ns (1.6ns is not overclocker and even the rated 600MHz are problem). 540MHz are absolutely no problem on 2.0ns memory and you shouldn't worry. If I would you I would flash X850XT BIOS and would overclock it further if possible. Those of you with dual slot cooler - remove it and use artic silver 5 instead the original or just change the cooler with silencer 5. Also is possible to modify the BIOS to higher fan speed (the original is 13%) but the noise is annoying (I am telling you based on my experience with X850PRO VIVO AGP comverted to X850XT PE with dual slot cooler and 1.6ns memory).


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## alanafowlersr (Nov 26, 2006)

*well well well*

Well i have my MEM. clock set 2 558.00 stable any thing over 563.00 starts to slow down  frame rate.I have my core set 2 528 stable anything over 533.00 will shut down system?Any thing over 533.00/563.00 shuts down system even though the temp is only 75/78 under max load is that 2 hot?With settings ate 528/558 i get good frame rate.I am using ATI TOOL 0.25 BETA 16 and over riding fan control set 2 %100.I boot into windows with settings in place using  ATI tool.My cards temp. is 40/48 idle 69/74 under stress not 2 bad.I have a double bay card. With those temps do i really need 2 buy a better cooler?Do i need a volt mode?If so can someone direct me in the right direction?I am thinking this because of the way my system shuts down when i start 2 over clock it when the temp is only 75/78 and it only happens when i start to go up on the core clock not the MEM.P.S why would Sapphire send me a x850xt with ram 2.0 on it and not have the right bios. on it just because its 2.0 rame it still should have a x850xt bios on board not a x850 pro bios. that does not make sence 2 me i think its bull shit no sapphires part. With the bios upgrade x850xt 16 pipes from the cd that you maid every thing seems to be working vary well thanks for that.The only thing was the fan witch i fixed with ATITOOL.


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## alanafowlersr (Nov 26, 2006)

One more thing i am going to post my 3dmark scores 2001se(16.249)03(11.634)05(4.890)06(2.289).I am running a Pentium 4 2.4 with a 800 FSB.with 1 gig of ram.I just bought a 3.4 Pentium chip on EBAY brand new with cooler for $150 that should help my scores.The 2.4 bottle necks i hope the 3.4 helps any way this setup is at its end its been good 2 me but almost time 2 move on this is its last upgrades for this setup.Well i might get 1 more gig of ram.Are these scores not 2 bad for my setup?THANKS DOLF FOR ALL THE HELP YOU GIVE THIS FORUM AND THAT CD.


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## TUngsten (Nov 26, 2006)

Dolf, do you mean Sapphire ONLY uses 2.0ns memory? 

I've been running mine @ 540/590 w/o issues for a few days now, 12,998 on 3dmark03 at stock xt pe speeds. I did use ATItool to OC the card, got stable at ~555/614, but backed it down till I could get a better cooling solution installed. I've got a Tt Tide Water and 2x1g ddr400 coming from Newegg, so I'll work on OC the card and my system next week. The Tt should allow for some much higher core clock OC (and it looks cool). 

system: 3.2 P4 northwood
msi 865pe NEO2 mobo
2x512mb cheapo ram @ 3,3,3,8 1T
120gb Seagate sata
Samsung dvd/cdrom
SB audigy
x850xt pe 540/590

trying to get another year outta my system before I build a new setup
the 3.2 p4 isn't a very good OC in my experience so far, but I was running a 2.4c @ 3.1 for about a year on air.


----------



## dolf (Nov 26, 2006)

TUngsten said:


> Dolf, do you mean Sapphire ONLY uses 2.0ns memory?
> 
> I've been running mine @ 540/590 w/o issues for a few days now, 12,998 on 3dmark03 at stock xt pe speeds. I did use ATItool to OC the card, got stable at ~555/614, but backed it down till I could get a better cooling solution installed. I've got a Tt Tide Water and 2x1g ddr400 coming from Newegg, so I'll work on OC the card and my system next week. The Tt should allow for some much higher core clock OC (and it looks cool).
> 
> ...




The only X850PRO VIVO AGP with 2.0ns is produced by Sapphire but it doesn't mean that 1.6ns Sapphire X850PRO VIOV AGP can't be met. Probably your is with 1.6ns if 590MHz are not problem (or the 2.0ns is very good overclocker) in both cases and with dood cooling you should choose X850XT PE BIOS. My X850PRO came with 1.6ns but without voltmod the max memory was 570MHz  .


----------



## TUngsten (Nov 26, 2006)

mmm...perhaps later tonight i'll pull the card and inspect the memory, clean and refit the HSF w/ arctic silver (just realized the Tt Tide Water won't fit...)


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## paul06660 (Nov 27, 2006)

hey, Dolf. or someone.
How do you tell if your memory is 1.6 or 2.0.?
I think that I have 1.6 because there is a number then a dash then it says GC16 on the memory chips.
Thanks for your help.


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## dolf (Nov 27, 2006)

It is written on the memory chips. xxxxxxx-GC20 = 2.0ns; xxxxxxxx-GC16 = 1.6ns


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## paul06660 (Nov 27, 2006)

Ok I just ran memory test and I was able to go over 600 mhz with 1.6 ram.
but my system shut down when I reached only 544 on the Core test. I saw artifacts
in the fuz cube before it went down. I also have the single slot card that has the crappy fan and my temps were about 75c on the core.
I have flashed the bios from x850pro to x850xt, which is what it was supposed to be out of the box and ATI tool says I have 16 pixel pipes.

I have had the card freeze once during Need 4 speed Carbon at 1028x768 on totally maxed out settings. The game has also crashed twice. I also push the living hell out of the game

What does this mean?
Is the poor cooling causing the core to not clock well, and the game to crash?
Is there a problem with the Core?
Do I have a defective card?
Should I send it back?

Thank you for the help.


----------



## TUngsten (Nov 27, 2006)

I think the single slot card needs an aftermarket cooling solution to run well w/ the 16pipes and increased speed.


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## dolf (Nov 27, 2006)

paul06660 said:


> Ok I just ran memory test and I was able to go over 600 mhz with 1.6 ram.
> but my system shut down when I reached only 544 on the Core test. I saw artifacts
> in the fuz cube before it went down. I also have the single slot card that has the crappy fan and my temps were about 75c on the core.
> I have flashed the bios from x850pro to x850xt, which is what it was supposed to be out of the box and ATI tool says I have 16 pixel pipes.
> ...



It means that your core is not good overclocker but not that it is bad. Just buy ATI Silencer 5 rev.2 for 15USD and install it using Arctic Silver 5 paste and you will notice considerable decreasing in the temperatures and probably better overclock. If you like return it and pray to receive better core (beter overclocker) but also such which can unlock to 16 pipes  (because that isn't guaranteed as well).


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## radeonpro (Nov 27, 2006)

My ATI X850pro VIVO bought from Newegg is unlockable.  I use dolf's bio to flash it to 16 pipeline retaining 500/500 speed n dynamic fan control. When Atitool tries to find the max core, i got blank screen if the core goes beyond 520MHZ. Then i have to push reset button. 
dolf, is that becoz of the bio or my core is not good overclocker? Mem is 1.6ns.


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## dolf (Nov 27, 2006)

radeonpro said:


> My ATI X850pro VIVO bought from Newegg is unlockable.  I use dolf's bio to flash it to 16 pipeline retaining 500/500 speed n dynamic fan control. When Atitool tries to find the max core, i got blank screen if the core goes beyond 520MHZ. Then i have to push reset button.
> dolf, is that becoz of the bio or my core is not good overclocker? Mem is 1.6ns.



Just not very good overclocking core (and poor cooling) but with 16 pipes  .


----------



## TUngsten (Nov 27, 2006)

I'm feeling pretty lucky - my card is running stable @562/617 on stock HSF flashed to xt pe 
13191 3dmark03 
6228 3dmark05


----------



## Robkins (Nov 28, 2006)

Just to keep you guys updated, I received a response from "althonmicro" requesting my PN and SN. This was in response to my support ticket. I'll keep you guys updated.


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## aelfwyne (Nov 28, 2006)

So..... if I order this: Open Box x850XT: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102688R

I can expect not to get what is advertised, but one of the multitude of Pros pretending to be XT's that have been returned?

I sure hope not because it's already been shipped.....


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## Robkins (Nov 28, 2006)

I don't think so. That model is a PCI-E card, not AGP. It should be a XT


----------



## aelfwyne (Nov 28, 2006)

Ahh good..... digging through the thread here for info.... I just had a bit 'o panic, I think. My old AGP x800 with 16 pipes is up on ebay, and so if I don't get a working PCIe replacement by the end of the week when I swap motherboards, I'll be SOL... so I freaked out when I saw this, thought maybe my open box was too good to be true.


----------



## Robkins (Nov 28, 2006)

Yeah I hope you get a good card. As for us stuck with the AGP version... well, looks like most of us have flashed the cards. I'm still dealing with the issue to see If I can get a new "true" XT card from Sapphire. After some digging in various forums, it seems like Sapphire has specific group that deals with their returns, and they also charge...gahh.. lets hope it won't be so in my case!


----------



## dolf (Nov 28, 2006)

lemonadesoda said:


> @jcc... flash it and lose your warranty. return it now. overclock the XT. Dont waste your time with the Pro. What happens if one of the quads is dead? Then you are screwed. Dead card, no warranty.
> 
> I suspect you have been sold a "return". Someone probably "swapped" the card and no one noticed.



Even one case of bad R481 isn't known up to now  . You don't loose your guarantee flashing to 16 pipes because flashing to original BIOS everything is like before the flash. Other issue is what is ordered and what is received but for sure it is better to test and if you received a "gold sample" which won't happen next time when you receive the "correct" one  .


----------



## radeonpro (Nov 28, 2006)

Robkins said:


> Yeah I hope you get a good card. As for us stuck with the AGP version... well, looks like most of us have flashed the cards. I'm still dealing with the issue to see If I can get a new "true" XT card from Sapphire. After some digging in various forums, it seems like Sapphire has specific group that deals with their returns, and they also charge...gahh.. lets hope it won't be so in my case!




I just bought a zalman 900 from newegg. I hope there is improvement of overclocking. Eventhough i m happy at stock speed with 16 pipeline, to overclock is the reason i stick with ATI. I assume ATI or Sapphire have learned that most of their customers are overclocker. They know how to deal with them.


----------



## TUngsten (Nov 28, 2006)

I also ordered an aftermarket cooling solution too, should arrive today. I saw the Thermaltake TIdewater on sale @ Newegg so i'll see what that'll do...if I can squeeze it in my case lol. Should be arriving today. Mine is OCing nicely on stock cooling so far, so i'm optomistic I'll be able to squeeze some more out of it.

I've pretty much convinced myself that I got an XT that simply had the wrong bios flashed to it


----------



## regan1985 (Nov 28, 2006)

sorry but u shouldnt have kept it, look at my card that on stock everything all i did is go in2 ati tool! u have nearly reached the max on  your card but i could go even higher if i wanted to!should have sent it back


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## TUngsten (Nov 28, 2006)

that's a nice OC, what are you using to cool that?

Either way, this thread just pertains to the Sapphire AGP cards recently found @ NEwegg and their mislabeling. 596/673 is pretty sweet, way higher than ANY review i've seen of the x850xt.

I'm trying to squeeze another year outta my p4 rig, and the card only cost me $139 and it already OCs as much as many of the x850xt pe reviews I've read.


----------



## radeonpro (Nov 28, 2006)

more i read, the more i think that my card got a poor overclockable core. Wats the max core speed u guys can go using atitool with stock cooling? Want to take it as a reference. 

(dun want to read thru the 70+pages thread *lol*)


----------



## TUngsten (Nov 28, 2006)

562.5 on my core w/ stock cooling so far, 617.5 memory. Peak load temp at 69.7C after 30min of atitool.


----------



## radeonpro (Nov 28, 2006)

well i give up. My pc jams when it reachs 521 on core. Peak load temp at 66.8C. No matter how many times i try =(


----------



## TUngsten (Nov 28, 2006)

radeonpro, is that with the r480/r481 core? that's a single slot unit right? are you using that Zalman HSF now?

Can't complain too much as you bought a x850pro to begin with. Some cores just don't clock as well as others, I'll bet that after QA testing, the less impressive cores get relegated to x850pro duty. 

What's your memory getting up to? 520/540 is x850xt speed


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## dtimm612 (Nov 28, 2006)

I feel triply screwed in this since I bought mine off E-Bay for $205 after shipping, I got the single slot fan, and obviously the card was advertised illegally.  I noticed a lot of people started selling after the 17th, so it makes sense that they bought them all up fast for $140 on NewEgg.com and turned around and sold them for a $60+ profit.  I got the same thing as everyone, but with a single slot cooling fan.  The box also said 2 free games to choose (THUG2, Richard Burns Rally, PoP:WW, and BiA:Road to Hill30).  I don't know if every one got this package, but if you did it probably means you also got the single slot crappy cooler.  This really chaps my a$$, I waited a long time looking for a good deal for either a XT or XT PE and I end up getting this crap.  I wouldn't be so angry if I'd had paid $140 like everyone else.  I contacted Sapphire asking what their solution is, and am waiting for a reply.  If I can, I’ll probably sell it and keep looking for a used XT or PE somewhere.  At least you guys can fall back to newegg for a refund...
Sapphire sucks


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## Robkins (Nov 28, 2006)

Received a response after submitting my SN and PN:

Dear Customer,



We have investigated this issue, and have found out there has been a mishap with the packaging of this particular model.  We will be offering replacement service for this card.  Please fill out this RMA form and await for our RMA department to assign you a RMA#. Once you receive this please send the card back in for replacement service. Sorry for the inconvenience we have cost you.  Please state the description on the form as X850XT exchange program.



Thanks.



Tech


It appears as if they charge 15$ for "Restocking" and shipping back, doesn't include shipment there. I'm going to try to demand that they pay the "restocking" fee since it was their fault in the first place.


----------



## dtimm612 (Nov 28, 2006)

Hey thanks a lot for the update Robkins, and thanks for posting in both forums.  I guess I'll wait until I get a response back from Sapphire too.  Hopefully we'll get the card we were suppose to... I was wondering if they still had any of the X850XT AGP models left to give.  Just curious, where is the RMA form that you're suppose to fill out?
Also, what's the cheapest/best way to send them back (UPS, FEDEX, USPS etc...)?
Thanks again,
Dylan


----------



## 15th Warlock (Nov 29, 2006)

A clear example of Sapphire's quality control department performing way below the standard.

Happy about to hear about the replacement, as consumers you guys have rights, and it's good that Sapphire recognized them, even though I admit they should cover your full expenses, it's not your mistake they labeled wrongly their shipment.

I too was once burned by unfair return policies when I lost an RMA's S&H + the taxes I paid for a defective Sapphire card I had to return; I'm sorry to hear nothing has changed, even though they admitted their own mistake. 

Hope you guys have better luck than I had.

P.S.: The cheapest way for me was using the USPS to send the card back.


----------



## Robkins (Nov 29, 2006)

dtimm612,

The RMA form will be provided to you in your email sent from sapphire; however, they also need to send you an RMA number to fill out on the form. I have yet to receive the number. The first email you receive (from tech@althonmicro.com) should request some numbers, after that they will admit there was a problem and provide you with the RMA form. That is my current standing although I'll keep updating as this progresses.

Today I'm sending out another message to see if whether I can negotiate shipping.


----------



## TUngsten (Nov 29, 2006)

I just spent 2 hours trying to negotiate the installation of a Thermaltake Tide Water VGA cooler

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16835116017

What a waste of time and $ - the pump appears to be no good, the rails that are supposed to slide into the pci slots are too big, the unit is even bigger that I expected, the liquid tubing doesn't provide enough clearance to put the enclosed heatsinks on the ram.... 
RMA and arctic cooling 5/2 FTW

but I did confirm that I have 1.6ns samsung chips! and at least I got to clean the massive amount of thermal goo off of the chip and replace it with a fine layer of Arctic Silver


----------



## paul06660 (Nov 29, 2006)

Hey any advice on this liquid cooling system?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16835103017
I wonder if this would have the muscle to tame the wild and crazy temps of our x850xt's.
Thanks for any input.


----------



## Robkins (Nov 29, 2006)

I would just get the ATI silencer, little cooling difference, big price difference (20$ vs. 69$)


----------



## Robkins (Nov 29, 2006)

Update:

Don’t worry about paying any of the fee that is listed on there. Just send the form back in after you fill it out. And we will assign you with a RMA# so you can send your card back to us for replacement service.



Tech

This latest email came to me after I inquired about some "fees" listed on the RMA form. This is reassuring and I am very happy with their way of handling the issue (heard otherwise on other forums). *Be sure to type appropriately, they like that.*


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## TUngsten (Nov 29, 2006)

Yeah, and that one looks like it mounts on the wall or something outside the case....I dunno.

And the Arctic Silencer 5 rev2 is outta stock everywhere almost, I had to order one from Directron.com, $24+ shipping - best price I could find after a week of looking


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## paul06660 (Nov 30, 2006)

Ok I just ordered one of the Silencers as well from directron.com, they also had the power supply that I wanted for 10 bucks cheaper than newegg, and for 5 bucks they will test it before they ship!!!!
I also got the Arctic Silver 5 paste to go with it.
Does this power supply look sexy or not?!!!!!!!
(Note that newegg has nice pictures, thats why I used the link from them)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowI...KMRK-550A-2+EPS12V+550W+Power+Supply+-+Retail


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## Robkins (Nov 30, 2006)

Guys can we try to keep this forum related to the topic? It gets annoying when one has to weed through pointless replies that don't have much to do with the topic. You flashed your card... good. Now you're looking for an aftermarket cooling solution... not the place to post. Make a new thread.


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## radeonpro (Nov 30, 2006)

to get the ATI slilencer, here is a good place.
http://www.heatsinkstore.com/cardcooler.html

I got the ZAlman installed. Temperature is lower than original single slot cooler. ATItool shows 5C diff when loaded (61C).  The overclock result is the same. I switch to ATI tray tool n rivatuner for overclocking. my screen freezes or computer restarts whenever the core goes beyond 522. However i got luck at memory, it goes up n up n up till i dun want it to go (beyond 610). 

Here is the summary of 3dmark2006 benchmark,
Benchmark	
Width	                                        1024
Height	                                        768
Anti-Aliasing	                           4 sample AA
Anti-Aliasing Quality	               0
Texture Filtering	                           Anisotropic
Anisotropic Level	                           8
VS Profile	                                        2_0
PS Profile                         	               2_b
Force full precision	                           No
Disable HW shadow mapping	              No
Disable post-processing	              No
Force software vertex shader	 No
Color mipmaps	                           No		
Force software FP filtering	              No		
Repeat tests	                           3 times		
Fixed framerate	                           Off		
Comment			

3DMark Score	                          1823 3DMarks		
SM2.0 Score	                          941 		
HDR/SM3.0 Score	                          N/A	
CPU Score	                          901 		
Game Score	                          N/A		
GT1 - Return To Proxycon	           7.024 FPS		SM2.0 Graphics Tests
GT2 - Firefly Forest	           8.657 FPS		SM2.0 Graphics Tests
CPU1 - Red Valley	0.285 FPS		CPU Tests
CPU2 - Red Valley	0.455 FPS		CPU Tests
HDR1 - Canyon Flight	0.000 N/A	Not supported	HDR/SM3.0 Graphics Tests
HDR2 - Deep Freeze	0.000 N/A	Not supported	HDR/SM3.0 Graphics Tests
Fill Rate - Single-Texturing	3323.037 MTexels/s		Feature Tests
Fill Rate - Multi-Texturing	7613.888 MTexels/s		Feature Tests
Pixel Shader	92.467 FPS		Feature Tests
Vertex Shader - Simple	141.920 MVertices/s		Feature Tests
Vertex Shader - Complex	42.590 MVertices/s		Feature Tests
Shader Particles (SM3.0)	0.000 N/A	Not supported	Feature Tests
Perlin Noise (SM3.0)	0.000 N/A	Not supported	Feature Tests
8 Triangles	0.000 N/A	N/A	Batch Size Tests
32 Triangles	0.000 N/A	N/A	Batch Size Tests
128 Triangles	0.000 N/A	N/A	Batch Size Tests
512 Triangles	0.000 N/A	N/A	Batch Size Tests
2048 Triangles	0.000 N/A	N/A	Batch Size Tests
32768 Triangles	0.000 N/A	N/A	Batch Size Tests


My gaming system ....  pretty slow is it??
ur comment?


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## TUngsten (Nov 30, 2006)

true, we've drifted off topic somewhat. 

I'm still waiting for an RMA # from Sapphire/Althon tech, but they will replace it as some others have noted as well.

Yet, I think I may just keep mine. It's a 2slot card, 1.6ns memory, runs pretty cool at load (~63c) with a mild 563/617 OC with the stock cooling fan at about 40% (any louder and I can't take it). With the Arctic Silencer running full tilt, it'll likely do better.

I feel like i've gotten a decent card here for my $139usd, and don't really want to take the chance of getting a "real" replacement x850XT that doesn't spec as well. WHich, I believe, is a distinct possibility.

Mainly, the card stays cool. Cool card = better chance at longevity. I've had ATI cards for a while now, and my 9800xt was absurd - even with an Arctic Silencer on it I could barely keep it under 85c load. And that was the one I got after RMA the first which got just as hot.


----------



## Robkins (Nov 30, 2006)

My Radeon 9800 pro idle temp was 70! ouch... yeah those cards heated up fast.


----------



## TUngsten (Nov 30, 2006)

Yeah, forgot to say that the idle on my x850 is 35c with the stock fan at 15% (and it's still too loud lol)


----------



## jb3nny (Nov 30, 2006)

*hey guys*

My x800 pro vivo 16 pipe card goes up to like 69 degrees Celcius under load and down to 32 degrees idle. I have stock single slot cooling and i am thinking of getting the arctic silencer 4 for it so i can actually OC and /play at stock speeds for more than an hour w/o artifacting in bf2.


----------



## dolf (Nov 30, 2006)

jb3nny said:


> My x800 pro vivo 16 pipe card goes up to like 69 degrees Celcius under load and down to 32 degrees idle. I have stock single slot cooling and i am thinking of getting the arctic silencer 4 for it so i can actually OC and /play at stock speeds for more than an hour w/o artifacting in bf2.



Instead of ati silencer 4 rev.2 take ati silencer 5 rev.2 (probably at the same price)


----------



## dolf (Nov 30, 2006)

TUngsten said:


> true, we've drifted off topic somewhat.
> 
> I'm still waiting for an RMA # from Sapphire/Althon tech, but they will replace it as some others have noted as well.
> 
> ...




You have real X850XT PE and it would be bad move to return it  . I wouldn't do it.


----------



## Robkins (Nov 30, 2006)

Update:

Dear Robert,

Your RMA NO. is RXXXX. Please notice if your shipping address is incorrect, thanks.
Please just return the card only, do not send any accessories (cable, adpter, original box....etc. )
And include $15.00 check or money order made payable to Althon Micro Inc.
Please write down RMA number outside of the box, otherwise will be refused.
** The merchandises have to be returned within 14 days after RMA# issued. **

Turnaround time is 2-4 weeks.

This email was sent to me from "RMA@althonmicro" instead of "tech@althonmicro" so they must not have understood that I'm not eligible to pay their $15 fee. I sent them an email just to make sure - I will probably ship the product out tomorrow.


----------



## dtimm612 (Dec 1, 2006)

Do you think they're going to just flash the card to x850xt spec?  Probaly not, but you never know.  Humm... if so I hope they also swap out single fans for double slot fans for those it concerns.  How long does that initial reply take anyway?  Maybe I wasn't nice enough in the e-mail ;-)


----------



## Robkins (Dec 1, 2006)

The first reply took around 3-4 days If I remember right, and after that I always had a reply the next day. No, I don't think they will just flash it.. I mean I can't say for sure, but it just doesn't seem very business-like. One thing that you can rest assured of is that you will get a dual slot fan, no XTs are made without them. Just mention the fan in one of your next responses. Once you get past the first couple of messages you can start inquiring more freely.


----------



## alanafowlersr (Dec 4, 2006)

*All Dune With Ati Back 2 Nvidia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

 I rma my second card back to new egg because it shit out after a week and a have.Thay gave me no problem and paid for me to send it back.This was my second card it was a dual slot card not like the first one but it still was a x850pro. Well in flashed it 2 a x850xt with xt settings it ran good for 10 days then the mem went i think because from boot up on. The picture was all screwed up so i flased it back and sent it back. All dune with ATI back two NVIDIA.Newegg is overnighting me my new card for free. I bought a 7800gs with all the newest fixings good luck guys.You have 2 love newegg.


----------



## pt (Dec 4, 2006)

alanafowlersr said:


> I rma my second card back to new egg because it shit out after a week and a have.Thay gave me no problem and paid for me to send it back.This was my second card it was a dual slot card not like the first one but it still was a x850pro. Well in flashed it 2 a x850xt with xt settings it ran good for 10 days then the mem went i think because from boot up on. The picture was all screwed up so i flased it back and sent it back. All dune with ATI back two NVIDIA.Newegg is overnighting me my new card for free. I bought a 7800gs with all the newest fixings good luck guys.You have 2 love newegg.



? 

for what ive understood, you flashed your x850pro to xt, it f^cks up on you, and you did an ilegal RMA
correct?


----------



## paul06660 (Dec 4, 2006)

*No problems so far*

Hey guys, I too was one of the angry ones who recieved a single slot x850pro with a x850xt badge and stickers on it. I flashed my bios and have had NO Problems running at 520/540 as I do have the 1.6 memory chips, and with factory cooling I can get to 545 on the core. 

Before I used the autoflash CD I ran the boot floppy ATIflash and it told me that the extra 4 pipes were open.

My card does run warm at 35-43 idle and 65-75 under full load. but that will be history once I get my Silencer. I can tell a big differience between the 12 pipes and the 16 as a friend of mine  has an ATI x850pro that was locked and could not be modified. We both play Need 4 Speed Carbon at 1024x768 on totally maxed out detail and My Sapphire X850XT is clearly better at framerates and visual detail as the cars are shinier and the eye candy is explosive.
I am not going to return mine to Sapphire unless I have a problem, as my card is probally a true x850xt that came with an x850pro bios.

My 3dmark03 is 10668
My specs are:
P4 3.0 E HT socket 478
Epox 4pda5+ 865 PE Motherboard 800 Mhz Bus
1 gig of Ram in Dual Channel config 2.5-7-3-3
Raptor 74 gig with a Silicon Image 3114 onboard SATA controller
420 watt power supply with 13amps on the +12v

I have a 550 watt Scythe Power supply on the way, mabie that will get my 3dmark up to the 11,000 range as I know that 13 amps on the +12v is not much.

Any input or advice? 
thanks, paul06660


----------



## alanafowlersr (Dec 5, 2006)

*Yes*

Well if thats what you want 2 call it. They sold me a card under false pretenses that is illegal so now where even.


----------



## pt (Dec 5, 2006)

alanafowlersr said:


> Well if thats what you want 2 call it. They sold me a card under false pretenses that is illegal so now where even.



you should explained yourself that you boughted a xt and they sent you a pro


----------



## TUngsten (Dec 5, 2006)

that's what this whole thread is about, pt....


----------



## Robkins (Dec 5, 2006)

I would have also flashed the card, but there is no telling how flashing the BIOS would affect the 3D card's lifespan. I also can do other things in the meanwhile, so it's not a death or life issue for me.


----------



## pt (Dec 5, 2006)

TUngsten said:


> that's what this whole thread is about, pt....



i only read his post 
sry, my bad


----------



## dtimm612 (Dec 6, 2006)

Well I got my RMA number today and will be shipping it out in the next few days.  Thanks for all the help guys, good to see this tread didn't get shut down like the "offical" forum did at Sapphiretech.com.  Also, the e-mails never said anything about a $15 restock/shipping fee so maybe they caught on from Robert on that one (I also mentioned it pre-haste in an e-mail to them).  I too shall keep you updated.
Dylan


----------



## TUngsten (Dec 6, 2006)

Yeah, pretty annoying that the Sapphire boards are not run by Sapphire techs/employees....

I got my RMA info today too, but i'll keep mine. With the AC5.2 fan on it, it's quiet as can be running 570/619


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## Grings (Dec 8, 2006)

hey, ive got a honda civic 1.6 here, i think ill put a type r badge on it and sell it to one of you guys


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## Robkins (Dec 8, 2006)

They received my package, so now I guess all what I have to do is wait... 2-4 weeks.. with any luck that should be right about christmas.


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## ATIonion (Dec 8, 2006)

Grings said:


> hey, ive got a honda civic 1.6 here, i think ill put a type r badge on it and sell it to one of you guys



Then were would you live???


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## dtimm612 (Dec 9, 2006)

Robert, did you get an e-mail from them saying so, or do you know by a tracking number or something similar?  I went pretty cheap on the shipping... no insurance or tracking number, (yeah, I’m cheap).  Also, my guess would be closer to the 2 weeks rather than 4, because that's probably what they say to all RMA's, but since ours is just a swap with no work being done or fixed it shouldn't take too long (I hope).
Cheers


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## Robkins (Dec 9, 2006)

Yes, I had a tracking number from UPS. Package was sent out last monday and arrived friday. How much was your shipping? I hope you're right about that 2 weeks


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## McDee (Dec 10, 2006)

Damn, and I thought I was behind the times with my system. I've had an ati x850xt for a little over a year now running at 560/600 stable with the stock cooler and now I'm going to voltmod it to see if I can squeeze every last drop out before I upgrade again.


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## dtimm612 (Dec 10, 2006)

I was running a ATi Radeon 9600 SE before this card for more than three years.  Even the PRO x850 was a HUGE difference from that slug card.  Must be nice to have the money to upgrade every year.  Yeah, we're way behind the times  
Oh yeah Rob, my shipping was $6.40 something.  Not too bad, that's including the price of the box I shipped it in (which was 2.50 or so).  I shipped priority which is 2-3 days I think.
Cheers


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## McDee (Dec 11, 2006)

Riiight, Actually I just make calculated upgrades when it's needed, and right now getting an x8xx card sounds like a strange plan. If I had to buy now I'd still wait for cheap DX10 cards to come out. Here's a gander at my upgrade path:

CPU
OLD K62 450 @500MHz
Next Duron 800@1000MHz
Next XP 1700@1.6GHz
Next XP 2500 preweek52 Barton @2.5Ghz
Current A64 +3000 E6 Venice @2.7Ghz
Next? Core 2 Duo?

MB
OLD Asus P5A-B
Next Asus A7V133
Next Asus A7X 8X
Current MSI K8N Neo2 Plat.
Next? 680i something or other 

RAM
OLD 128MB Infineon PC100
Next 256MB Infineon PC133
Next 512MB shika PC2700 (samsung chips)
Current 1gb Corsair pc3200
Soon 2GB ? DDR2? DDR3? 

Sound
OLD Soundblaster 16
Next SB Live 5.1
Next ac97 onboard
Current MSI onboard
Soon Xifi card

Video
OLD Voodoo3 3000  (16MB)
Next Radeon 64DDR vivo (r100 core, 64MB)
Current X850XTPE 256MB (I loves it)
Next 8800 series maybe?

HDD
OLD 10G 5400 IDE
Next 20G 5400 IDE
Next 40G 7200 IDE
Current 80G 7200 IDE 2MB cache
Soon something big with min of 8MB cache

Monitor
OLD viewsonic 15'' CRT
Current Samsung 700NF CRT
Soon 2000 lumens HD projector
Eventually: a decent 19'' + flatscreen with -8MS refreshrate.

Case
OLD no name ATX mid size tower
Current 486server case with a turbo button! remember the 33Mhz, 66Mhz switch?

PSU
OLD Stock 250w 
Next Generic 300w
Next Topower 370w 16a@12v rail
Current Antec 420w  20a@12v
Next something big, like 750w or so.

OS
OLD Win95
Next win98
Next win98se +Mandrake, Redhat, and other noob linux releases. Still running today.
Next winME (was actually the best win9x version I had)
Next Win2k
Current WinXP pro SP2
Next? Vista?


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## pt (Dec 11, 2006)

keep in AMD  
a x2 4200 pheraps? or a opty?


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## Robkins (Dec 11, 2006)

Alright guys that's good that you can upgrade as often as you like, but the fact remains that this is one of the better cards for AGP (not best anymore because x1950pro AGP is out).

Also please try to keep this thread somewhat clean, I bet half of the people that post here don't even know what this thread is for. I would'nt be surprised if someone else has this problem and comes looking; in that case he or she should be able to find the important stuff easily.


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## paul06660 (Dec 13, 2006)

*Very Impressed*

Hey guys.
I have just pushed the absolute hell out of my card playing
Prey until I beat it.
I think that I have the genuine x850xt. The level of detail I recieved from my card is absolutely amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It loves 1024x768 at MAXIMUM detail with 4x antialiasing.
No freeze ups, artifatcs, or anything!
I still stand by my belief that it was programed the x850 pro bios by mistake.
Keep in mind that I have the Single slot card with the crappy fan (still looking for my silencer!)
I have no reason to suffer 4 weeks of downtime by sending it in. I am still running 520/540 with 16 pipes and I am sure that I can clock it higher, but I have no need to as Prey, which is a totally tweeked out version of Quake 4 runs smooth as glass!!!  

Here are a few things for you to think about.
I ran ATIflash before the boot cd to see if all quadrants were open and they were.
ATItool specifically said it was "open" so I ran the cd and flashed the x850xt bios, rebooted and Catalyst 6.11 and Windows IMMEDITALLY seen the card as the x850xt!!! 
I have the ATI x850pro in an all Intel based computer and I ran ATIflash and it said the quadrant was "locked". I still flashed it with the x850xt bios and after reboot we got VERY strange color patterns and windows did NOT like it, as it was still seen as an "x850 series" card. So I flashed it back to what it was.

My Sapphire x850xt clearly kicks the ass of the ATI x850pro in shader detail and framerates and it even runs 15 degrees cooler.
My friends saw Need 4 Speed Carbon with the x850pro bios and then after I flashed it to the x850xt and they noticed the differience too!!! 

Final thought.
If you can just flash the bios and get the x850xt that you ordered, as long as the card works fine why return it if it has no problems?
If the card dies within the 2 year warranty, just RMA the stupid thing.
I dont think that you can get caught with the wrong bios, if that bios is the one that it was supposed to come with out the box, and did not. 
And if it dies after those 2 years, you got your $139.99 + $5.49 out of the Damn thing!!!!!


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## TUngsten (Dec 13, 2006)

I have kept mine also. But, I have the 2slot card with 1.6ns memory the x850xt is supposed to have, meaning it is essentially the right card that had the wrong bios.

The single slot card with (perhaps) the 2.0ns ram is a flashed x850pro. Still a deal, but something I would have returned.


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## dtimm612 (Dec 13, 2006)

Yeah, I might have kept mine too if it had a double slot fan.  The idea of having to by a double slot artic cooling fan for the wrong card was too much for me though.  That's the main reason I sent it back to the company.  I never checked if ram was 1.6 or 2


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## dolf (Dec 13, 2006)

dtimm612 said:


> Yeah, I might have kept mine too if it had a double slot fan.  The idea of having to by a double slot artic cooling fan for the wrong card was too much for me though.  That's the main reason I sent it back to the company.  I never checked if ram was 1.6 or 2



Guys from the other hand $139.99 is nice price for X850PRO VIVO AGP and I am telling that because I have paid $ 500 for the X800XT in the beggining of 2005 (after that changed with X850PRO converted to X850XT PE for $ 360). Even with 2 slot cooler on the X850 I have installed the ATI Silencer 4 rev.2 on the X850XT PE because it is silent and more effective. You should be happy with 16 pipes X850 AGP because even old it is still very nice card. Of course from the other hand some of you will prefer to return it (absolutely right) because something is ordered but something different is received. 

My idea behind is to assess the situation (to test) and only then to return such cards because X850 AGP isn't in production for a long time and there is no guarantee that you will receive something better.

Good luck to all who will keep their cards and to all who will return  .


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## dtimm612 (Dec 13, 2006)

I've worried about getting back a better/worse card too, for that exact reason that dolf talk about in that they haven't been made for so long (apparently other than this crappy batch).  Hopefully (cross fingers) they have some parts or spares/leftovers anything to replace ours with.  I wouldn’t think they would send back anything less than the published specs, but who knows.  Even if they replace my fan with a 2 slot and flash my bios to XT spec wouldn't be too bad I guess.  If some of you are waiting for results from Rob or me on what we actually get back from the company I don't blame you.  Someone had to be a guinea pig   
Dylan


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## paul06660 (Dec 14, 2006)

*single slot with 1.6 RAM*

Oh yeah, I thought you guys already knew, but My single slot Card has the 1.6 ms  RAM.
So I got the right card with the wrong fan and the wrong bios, thought I would tell ya!!!


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## NSF·Serge (Dec 14, 2006)

I have this card but its getting old hat now upgrading in the next few weeks to x1950pro. then I will upgrade the whole system in the middle of next year to a dual core system


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## radeonpro (Dec 14, 2006)

dolf said:


> Guys from the other hand $139.99 is nice price for X850PRO VIVO AGP and I am telling that because I have paid $ 500 for the X800XT in the beggining of 2005 (after that changed with X850PRO converted to X850XT PE for $ 360). Even with 2 slot cooler on the X850 I have installed the ATI Silencer 4 rev.2 on the X850XT PE because it is silent and more effective. You should be happy with 16 pipes X850 AGP because even old it is still very nice card. Of course from the other hand some of you will prefer to return it (absolutely right) because something is ordered but something different is received.
> 
> My idea behind is to assess the situation (to test) and only then to return such cards because X850 AGP isn't in production for a long time and there is no guarantee that you will receive something better.
> 
> Good luck to all who will keep their cards and to all who will return  .



I very agree with dolf. I can see most of us who bought the X850 pro is becoz of its legacy n overclock ability. Me neither. Getting a genuine R481 core is a bonus if u buy a "PRO" version. I bet on it when i placed my order at newegg. There is nothing to lose if its not unlockable. Its still a powerful card comparing to X1600. Soon or later we all gonna jump to new system eventually, maybe 1 or 2 years? its unwisely to think that u buy coz u can unlock it to 16 pipeline; only if u need a low price mid-range powerful AGP card. otherwise, get a X1950pro or 7800GS. Remember we always lose in RMA games, time, shipping .... well i really appreciate my 850pro. To make u feel better, ITS MORE POWERFUL THAN x1600


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## TUngsten (Dec 14, 2006)

Admittedly it was strange to see that batch of Sapphire x850xt pop up on NE for the same price as the x850pro, and not suprisingly they were sold out in a matter of hours. It's just plain weird that Sapphire would pack up both single- and dual-slot cards, some w/ 1.6ns ram and some w/ 2.0ns ram, ALL with the x850pro bios in an x850xt box...Immediately after a multitude of them appeared on Ebay for $150-200 and higher.

can anyone say quality control department? lol


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## dolf (Dec 14, 2006)

Sapphire and the others just get rid of available boards (cards), R481 cores, memory (2.0ns or 1.6ns) and finally coolers. Fortunately the "best cores" are only left (we have to be happy about that) because 2.0ns or 1.6ns it is not very important but 16 pipes and 520 or 540MHz on the core it is something serious  .


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## paul06660 (Dec 15, 2006)

*Superb Card*

I guess I really don't care now that I didn't get the fancy fan on it, that is why they make aftermarket cooling systems that work better anyways.
So what if I had to flash the right bios? As long as it works to proper specs (520/540 with 1.6ns RAM), I dont really care as this is why we have this AWESOME forum and Dolf with his Autoflash CD and technical know how!!!

If Sapphire has been making these cards from leftover parts then I think
we are all very lucky to have these cards. It is impossible to find any X850pro or XT in an AGP slot anywhere for sale. 

This is why these x850XT's sold out on Newegg in 12 hours (and for $140 at that)!! 

With these cards you get 16 pixel pipes without having to spend $225 on a 7800 which has a slower core speed. (So what about Shader Model 3, only one game that supports it!!)
And the Nvidia is a Microsoft product, so ATI is our lord and savior to us Microsoft haters.

(Now why Microsoft had ATI do the Xbox 360 Video confuses me!!!)


I have 2 socket 478 based Presott systems.
One is a 3.0E on an Epox EP-4pda5+ Motherboard with the 865 PE chipset  
It has the Sapphire X850XT
The other is a 3.2 (which runs 20 degrees hotter than the 3.0E!!)
it is on an Intel 875P motherboard (Intel Made).
It has the ATI x850pro
Both computers have 1 gig of Patriot Signature Series Dual channel DDR 400 at 2.5-7-3-3
Both Computers have Western Digital 74 gig Raptors.
Both computers are just as fast as socket 775 Prescott with 915-925 chipsets (without the so called PCI Express x16 bus speeds).

I used to have Geforce 5200 256 DDR agp's in both of them and they were old and crappy and they slowed the rest of the system down. So I needed a graphics solution for both of them that would not be too much without having to go to 775 and pci express.

The ATI x850pro and the Sapphire x850XT are a perfect balance of Value and performance to match the blistering performance of these setups. 

I built both of these computers one month before socket 775 with PCI Express hit the market. 
I felt cheated when I had spent $3000 for 2 computers that were outdated in one month!!! 

Now I can hold on to these setups for another year till the Core 2 Duo's come down in price or if something else comes along!!


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## McDee (Dec 17, 2006)

Nice. It can almost be seen as a bonus to not have the stock fan too. It's a leaf blower and should be replaced ASAP anyways. Then do the VGPU, VDD, and VDDQ voltmods


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## Robkins (Dec 18, 2006)

*Card Received!*

Attention all!

Today I received the REAL XT, yes this time it is the correct model. 520/540 clocks, 16 pipelines, dual slot fan. It was packaged appropriately and I just put it in 10 mins ago, so all I can really say is that it wasn't DOA or a pseudo XT. Running about 35-37 Celcius idle.

The whole process took 2 weeks. Sent out card on 12/04, arrived at their warehouse the 8th, and I got the product back today (18th). Good luck to everyone else! I will post again if problems arise.


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## TUngsten (Dec 18, 2006)

paul06660 said:


> With these cards you get 16 pixel pipes without having to spend $225 on a 7800 which has a slower core speed. (So what about Shader Model 3, only one game that supports it!!)



There are a pretty serious number of shader3.0 games out there...most games from the last year use it. That is the only reason in my mind to go for the 7800, and what makes the x1950pro look REALLY good to me right now...aging AGP lol. But I like my x850


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## TUngsten (Dec 18, 2006)

Robkins said:


> Attention all!
> 
> Today I received the REAL XT, yes this time it is the correct model. 520/540 clocks, 16 pipelines, dual slot fan. It was packaged appropriately and I just put it in 10 mins ago, so all I can really say is that it wasn't DOA or a pseudo XT. Running about 35-37 Celcius idle.
> 
> The whole process took 2 weeks. Sent out card on 12/04, arrived at their warehouse the 8th, and I got the product back today (18th). Good luck to everyone else! I will post again if problems arise.



Congratz Rob! Now to see if you can OC the thing


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## dolf (Dec 18, 2006)

Robkins said:


> Attention all!
> 
> Today I received the REAL XT, yes this time it is the correct model. 520/540 clocks, 16 pipelines, dual slot fan. It was packaged appropriately and I just put it in 10 mins ago, so all I can really say is that it wasn't DOA or a pseudo XT. Running about 35-37 Celcius idle.
> 
> The whole process took 2 weeks. Sent out card on 12/04, arrived at their warehouse the 8th, and I got the product back today (18th). Good luck to everyone else! I will post again if problems arise.



Please tell us how the max. core/memory are? And what are the temperatures under load?


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## Robkins (Dec 19, 2006)

After 206 minutes of running "scan artifact" on ATItool (3hr 26 min) the card reached temperatures of 82 Celsius w/out OCing and did not get hotter. I don't plan to OC atleast yet because the card is fast enough as it is and I don't want to risk anything. 

Something to note was that NWN2 crashed at 10 mins ingame, although I couldn't get any other game to crash (played oblivion for ~45 min). The temps do concern me though.


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## dtimm612 (Dec 19, 2006)

Dolf, for these cards how do you check max. core/memory?  I think it was stated before but I forgot.


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## Robkins (Dec 19, 2006)

I think he means by using ATItool. I guess you could use auto find clocks or just slide it up in 5mhz increments until artifacts show then back down 10 mhz.


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## dolf (Dec 19, 2006)

dtimm612 said:


> Dolf, for these cards how do you check max. core/memory?  I think it was stated before but I forgot.



Yes I am also using ATITool but older versions or the new versions with checking the option "use old (more compatible?) scanning method". For X850 series it is beter to use that option.


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## Robkins (Dec 19, 2006)

I found out why it was getting so hot. The fan was running at 14% all the time! even at 82 degrees! Using ATItool fan control I've adjusted it to dynamic based so that I max at 70 degrees. Is that still too hot? I understand that if I should ever OC the thing I should get a silencer 5 or something like that.


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## dolf (Dec 19, 2006)

Robkins said:


> I found out why it was getting so hot. The fan was running at 14% all the time! even at 82 degrees! Using ATItool fan control I've adjusted it to dynamic based so that I max at 70 degrees. Is that still too hot? I understand that if I should ever OC the thing I should get a silencer 5 or something like that.



These 14% are constant up to 85C which is crazy. But as you already heard the noise is awfull and this is the reason for so low fan speed.


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## Robkins (Dec 19, 2006)

Good thing for me I have headphones . Also it seems that ATitool taxes the GPU much harder than any game... games only bring me up to around 57 degrees while ATItool will go up to 70


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## dtimm612 (Dec 19, 2006)

Good to hear Rob, I figured it was something along those lines.  You've put me at ease  
From the sound of it, these fans should be powerful enough to lift my PC off the ground and fly away, or at least my MoBo
Apparently mine arrived today too (Tuesday), though I'm out of town until Thursday, so I'll update then.


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## TUngsten (Dec 20, 2006)

I got the AS5 just for the noise reduction lol, I don't really get a better OC from it but it is truly silent even @ 100%


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## dtimm612 (Dec 21, 2006)

Well It appears I got an actual ATI 850XT... sweet.  DirectX reads “built by: ATI Technologies Inc.,” and shows chipset to be ATI Radeon X850XT, the fan and all stickers look just like the ATI brand card too.  Artifact scan shows no errors with max temp at 65/51 (gpu/card) with fan ~68%.  Fan is annoying.

I am very pleased, hopefully I’ll get a few good years out of her
Thanks everyone for all the help getting through this mix up.
Dylan


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