# new X800GTO2 VIVO DUAL DVI not a R480(?)



## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

*new X800GTO2 VIVO DUAL DVI modding*

Hi,

I bought early march a brand new PCIe X800GTO2 VIVO with dual DVI.  It has the 16 pipelines active, it's got a 400/490 clock set as default.  Everything on the card just runs fine with the Catalyst properly detecting the DUAL DVI feature.  One thing I noticed about the second DVI is that it's VGA output is not as strong as the first, so I really recommend DVI capable monitors if anyone wants to do DUAL DVI.

But, the real story is what's inside of this card.  I haven't opened it up to read the GPU code since I'm a little shy about doing the unscrewing and so on and so forth just to get a cpu code.  If I knew of any other method, I'd gladly try it.  So, reading a bunch of threads on techpowerup and other forums I got some decent knowledge on overclocking and some memory tweaking with the XS parms that are (or seem to be) derived from what's set on the X850XT PE board.  I tried those memory setting and it worked, boosted performance in 3DMark2001 and up.  My stable overclock right now is 501/591 without the XS timings (with the XS timing, it would require memory heat spreaders for long term use, or the XT PE cooling solution at a minimum.  The card does go up to 540/610, but that is IMHO too much for the basic cooling solution.

Now, the BIOS.  I was eager to flash my card to X850XT bios, convinced that the proc is a R480 and the memory, which is compatible with X850XT PE (XS tried & tested, stable at 590).  So I grabbed the X850XT bios, then saved a copy of the current bios as R430 in the filename (which I found curious, "oh well...") and flashed the new bios, all using WINFLASH105 flashing utility.  It worked fine only when I clicked the "force" button, I didn't really wonder why it required me to *force* it to write the new bios.  Anyway, regardless, it was done and I rebooted, as it asked me to.

So, went back to windows, looked around, and noticed on ATITOOLS,  the temperature of the GPU rising... and rising... and rising, from it's usual 45° 2D operation, up to a whopping 74°C!!!!  Resolution was in 640x480, as the OS detected a new card and found the other setup as missing, screen was flickering in 60hz, as I am used to 85hz refresh.  So, I put it back to my obnoxious, but very convenient 1360x1024 rez.  Well the temperature continued rising and then screen went blank!!!  And then, it rebooted..........  Oh ho....  I let it go to windows, blank screen, reboot...  OK, let's go in safemode.  I went there and wanted to flash it back, but the graphics card wasn't recognized.  So what I did is I removed the ATI drivers, and then rebooted in normal mode.  Happy happy, it goes back in windows flawlessly, but in 800x600, ATITOOLS gives a steady 74-75°.  Now, I flash it back to the saved R430 bios, and reboot!  YES!  Temperature drops steadily back to it's normal 48 - 46° and now it's at 46° as I am writing this with overclocked 501/591 values.  Good, I'm back to normal.  ATI drivers are reinstalled, my res is back, I ran 3Dmark03, got my ~13000 score.  

OK, so now I'm back to where I left off 2 hours ago.  But, I am not satisfied.  I want to know what happened??  Why did the temp hit 74°C, why the screen whent blank and system rebooted?  And why does the new bios not seem to recognize the R480 chip?  Would it be that the chip is actually an R420?  I wouldn't be surprized.  But since I had this really bad BIOS flash experience, I am not tempted in trying again.  It's a very bad feeling, heh....  Or maybe I will, if anyone has answers.


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## mmx (Mar 25, 2006)

from the start if your GPU works at 500Mhz than it is not a R430. Post your original bios.


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

*bios*

here is my original bios


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

*What ATITOOLS says*

From those screens, and what I have read on most boards, all I can distinguish is, if it has 16 pipelines, and it does, from the original bios.


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## dolf (Mar 25, 2006)

The description of the BIOS is "R480 X800XL BIOS" and definitely you have R480.


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

*This is the BIOS that I have used that created the problems*



I was absolutely positive from my knowledge base that this was the exact bios I should have used...


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## mmx (Mar 25, 2006)

It has 16pipelines, and your bios reports a R480 chip. I dont know why atitool reports a R430 chip


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## mmx (Mar 25, 2006)

try to uninstall your ati drivers whit drivercleaner, than install new drivers??
In 3Dmark05 what scores do you have??
Last Edit: tha bios you used is form a vivo card whit 1.6ns memory and your card does not have vivo thats why i did not work...now what kind of memory does your card have??


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

*Here is what WINFlash says before flashing*

How come 192MB???


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

mmx said:
			
		

> try to uninstall your ati drivers whit drivercleaner, than install new drivers??
> In 3Dmark05 what scores do you have??
> Last Edit: tha bios you used is form a vivo card whit 1.6ns memory and your card does not have vivo thats why i did not work...now what kind of memory does your card have??



OK from the box, it is written that my card has VIVO, and that was one of the reason why I have bought the card in the first place.  Now if they sold me a card that doesn't have VIVO, I'll have to speak to ATI :shadedshu

FROM THE BOX:
256MB
DUAL DVI
VIVO (VIDEO IN / VIDEO OUT)


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## mmx (Mar 25, 2006)

my bad , from the r430bios you send, i can tell that , that bios is not from a vivo card.....
and DO NOT USE ATIWINFLASH ..use atiflash or modified flashrom from dos.


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

mmx said:
			
		

> my bad , from the r430bios you send, i can tell that , that bios is not from a vivo card.....
> and DO NOT USE ATIWINFLASH ..use atiflash or modified flashrom from dos.



What exactly are you telling me?  That my card is not VIVO, when the box says it's VIVO from a sales / features point of view?


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## dolf (Mar 25, 2006)

Look I have said that many times before. For some reason the first two digits of the Device ID are "fixed" within the hardware or with other words they can't be overriten by flashing (they remain unchanged).

Your original BIOS has 554D device id. The second one 5D52. When you flash the Sapphire BIOS you get "new" device ID 5552 which is alien (absolutely unknown for the drivers).

On that card you can flash only BIOSes with Device ID starting with 55. Unfortunately the BIOSes with 55xx Device ID originally are for X800XL (R430), X800XT (PE) - R423, GT, GTO (all R423 or R430) but no R480 BIOSes with Device ID starting with 55xx (they are with 5Dxx)  .


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

dolf said:
			
		

> Look I have said that many times before. For some reason the first two digits of the Device ID are "fixed" within the hardware or with other words they can't be overriten by flashing (they remain unchanged).
> 
> Your original BIOS has 554D device id. The second one 5D52. When you flash the Sapphire BIOS you get "new" device ID 5552 which is alien (absolutely unknown for the drivers).
> 
> On that card you can flash only BIOSes with Device ID starting with 55. Unfortunately the BIOSes with 55xx Device ID originally are for X800XL (R430), X800XT (PE) - R423, GT, GTO (all R423 or R430) but no R480 BIOSes with Device ID starting with 55xx (they are with 5Dxx)  .



Hmmm...  So, for all of us GTO2 guys, what do you suggest?  And, can you confirm that I do have VIVO?  I know my box says I have VIVO...  Maybe I could try with my video camera?  Dunno which of the supplied cables I should use?...  I think I have what everybody has in terms of GTO2 supplied cables, it's the same packages even as what they give with the X1900XTX.....

Now maybe if we could trick the bios and make the system read R480, but really, I don't know what that would enhance, it's already a fast card.


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

mmx said:
			
		

> try to uninstall your ati drivers whit drivercleaner, than install new drivers??
> In 3Dmark05 what scores do you have??
> Last Edit: tha bios you used is form a vivo card whit 1.6ns memory and your card does not have vivo thats why i did not work...now what kind of memory does your card have??


Last time I ran 3Dmark05, I had around 6250 points.  Now why everyone says I don't have VIVO...  I think I'm getting tired


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## mmx (Mar 25, 2006)

If you hawe that chip than is a vivo card(but i dont think it will work whit the r430bios....else im sorry!


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

*3DMark05*

Hmm, well...  Here's my fresh run of 3D mark 05!


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

*VIVO YES a NONO*



			
				mmx said:
			
		

> If you hawe that chip than is a vivo card(but i dont think it will work whit the r430bios....else im sorry!



OK, I have the VIVO cable in hand right now, will plug it in the card, and will plug my digital camcorder using it's s-video out, and let's ee what happens 

OK...  It detects it as an ATI Rage video feed, and all I had to do is select from s-video source and it worked fine 

So, bottom line, if I will resume by myself all of this bios flash crap that's been going along with the GTO2...  First I have the red board, my memory is definately the same as the R850XT PE one, my proc is definately a X850 proc (R480), I definately have VIVO from my really quick test of the supplied VIVO cable (I have firewire on my motherboard so I won't really use it much a part from TV signal), and finally, I have poor cooling solution.  So, what I have to do in order to to use the full potential of this card is to change the cooliing solution, put heat sinks on the DDR3, and then I'm ready!        Why the need to make the system read R480 is beyond me...


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

dolf said:
			
		

> Look I have said that many times before. For some reason the first two digits of the Device ID are "fixed" within the hardware or with other words they can't be overriten by flashing (they remain unchanged).
> 
> Your original BIOS has 554D device id. The second one 5D52. When you flash the Sapphire BIOS you get "new" device ID 5552 which is alien (absolutely unknown for the drivers).
> 
> On that card you can flash only BIOSes with Device ID starting with 55. Unfortunately the BIOSes with 55xx Device ID originally are for X800XL (R430), X800XT (PE) - R423, GT, GTO (all R423 or R430) but no R480 BIOSes with Device ID starting with 55xx (they are with 5Dxx)  .



If I apply the "Guide to Radeon X800/X850 bios modding (by ShadowFlare)" portion where it talks about changing the GPU name back to a R480, do you think it will work?


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

*New info*

-- RaBiT v.1.7.2 build 390 started --
> RaBiT driver v.1.0.5 is loaded
-- Your ATi video adapter low level info --
Vendor: 0x1002, SubVendor: 0x174B (Sapphire Technology Ltd.)
Device: 0x554D (R423), SubSystem: 0x1600Chipset Rev. A10
CONFIG_XSTRAP.8P_DISABLE = 0x02
On Board EEPROM: ST M25P05/c (64 Kb)
Active pipelines: 16, GB_TILE_CONFIG = 0x0001001F
MPP_TB_CONFIG = 0x01FF0000
-- Memory bus and clocking info --
Memory: 256 bits, DDR3, 256 Mb
Chipset clock = 501.00 MHz
Memory clock = 591.00 (1182.00) MHz
-- Active memory timings --
tWL = 1.5
tCL = Reserved
tCMD = 0 clock
tSTB = equals tWrL
tRcdRD = 7
tRcdWR = 3
tRP = 5
tRAS = 20
tRRD = 1
tR2W = CL + 2
tWR = 6
tW2R = 4
tW2Rsb = Use tWR Rule
tR2R = 3
MemRR = 75
tRFC = 18
tRBS = CL + 2
tERST = CL - 1
tQSREQ = CL - 2
tDQM = WL - 1
tDQS = WL - 1
tDQM_Adv = 1 clock earlier for WL 1 clock and more
tDQS_Adv = 1 clock earlier for WL 1 clock and more


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

*From a saved copy of the bios*

-- RaBiT v.1.7.2 build 390 --
> RaBiT driver v.1.0.5 is loaded
Readed from file: 65536 bytes, ROM len: 65536 bytes
-- Analyze ROM BIOS --
> HEADER offs: 0x206
> PCIR struct offs: 0x22C
> HEADER2 offs: 0xB0CE, 25 items
> SCRIPTS offs: 0xBA38, 76 items
> CRC table offs: 0x251
> CLOCK table offs: 0xB5E4
Core clock is 400.00 MHz
Memory clock is 490.00 MHz
Reference clock is 27.00 MHz
> Connectors Layout table offs: 0xB699
Port = 1, Conn0 type = DVI-I
Port = 0, Conn2 type = STV
Port = 2, Conn4 type = DVI-I
> TV table offs: 0xB651
> Multimedia table: at 0xB10C, Rev.1
> Hardware table: at 0xB100, Rev.2
hw_a: 0x350F, hw_b: 0x0201
> VESA BIOS Extension 3.00, Rev. 9.10 info:
Vendor: (C) 1988-2005, ATI Technologies Inc. 
Product: R480, Rev. 01.00
OEM: ATI ATOMBIOS
Memory size: 256 Mb
> ASIC Config:
0x75 = 0xE4, 0x74 = 0x01
0x7B = 0x0A, 0x7A = 0x60 (0x00000A60)
-- ROM BIOS info --
Desc: R480 X800 XL BIOS
Info: 11x-A47466-103, 13A47466.103, 05/24/05,14:36:51
Radeon family: Radeon X800 series
-- Parsing hardware scripts:  --
> INIT0 script at 0xBAD0
-- Found hardware registers values: --
> SCLK_CNTL(0x00000002)
> M_SPLL_REF_FB_DIV(0x003B4904)
> MC_CNTL(0x00000062)
> MCLK_CNTL(0x00001212)
> MC_TIMING_CNTL(0x6532C555) at 0xC375
> MC_SDRAM_MODE_REG(0x10330000) at 0xC382
> MC_REFRESH_CNTL(0x000088DF)
> MC_CHP_IO_OE_CNTL_CD(0x5FC05FC0) at 0xDBB6
> MC_READ_CNTL_CD(0x082A082A) at 0xDBA1
> MC_READ_CNTL_AB(0x082A082A) at 0xDB9A
> MC_CHP_IO_OE_CNTL_AB(0x5FC05FC0) at 0xDBAF
> CONFIG_MEMSIZE(0x10000000)
-- In BIOS memory timings --
tWL = 1.5
tCL = Reserved
tCMD = 0 clock
tSTB = equals tWrL
tRcdRD = 8
tRcdWR = 6
tRP = 8
tRAS = 14
tRRD = 6
tR2W = CL + 1
tWR = 4
tW2R = 5
tW2Rsb = Use tW2R Rule
tR2R = 3
tRBS = CL + 2
tERST = CL - 1
tQSREQ = CL - 2
tDQM = WL - 1
tDQS = WL - 1
tDQM_Adv = 1 clock earlier for WL 1 clock and more
tDQS_Adv = 1 clock earlier for WL 1 clock and more
-- Additional hardware info --
MCLK source select: MPLLCLK/2
SCLK source select: SPLLCLK/2
SDRAM specific: 2**12 rows, 512 columns
SDRAM dynamic CKE is Enabled
! Video settings is partially supported
-- User changes followed --


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## dolf (Mar 25, 2006)

_33 said:
			
		

> If I apply the "Guide to Radeon X800/X850 bios modding (by ShadowFlare)" portion where it talks about changing the GPU name back to a R480, do you think it will work?



If you read what I post carefully you will understand that ShadowFlare's guide will work partly (and the only exception will be the first two digits of Device ID  ).

What is your PCB Part Number? (Top front side of the PCB - something like this: PN 109-A474xx-xx)


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

dolf said:
			
		

> If you read what I post carefully you will understand that ShadowFlare's guide will work partly (and the only exception will be the first two digits of Device ID  ).
> 
> What is your PCB Part Number? (Top front side of the PCB - something like this: PN 109-A474xx-xx)



Here you go sir:

PN 102-A47466-11-XX
SKU# 21067-01


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## funnyface (Mar 25, 2006)

Dont worry friend, i'm sure yours one is R480 with VIVO
because mine one is the same as yours and now my bios detect as X850XT PE.
Dual DVI and VIVO but detect as X800XL as 1st,right?


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

*Eureka!*

I opened up the cooling system, removed a little cooling paste, looked on the GPU carefully, and there we are, R480  

OK, now how come I can't up an X850 BIOS I still don't understand...  If the processor is an R480, and the PCB is the same, then I don't see what else is much different a part from the BIOSconfused: ).


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## Megatron (Mar 25, 2006)

If u cant change the 55xx part of device ID, then why not moddify the driver installation files?  Since u have R480 then you will benifit from r480 driver optimizations.  You will need to mod ever future driver install though.


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## Megatron (Mar 25, 2006)

_33 said:
			
		

> I opened up the cooling system, removed a little cooling paste, looked on the GPU carefully, and there we are, R480
> 
> OK, now how come I can't up an X850 BIOS I still don't understand...  If the processor is an R480, and the PCB is the same, then I don't see what else is much different a part from the BIOSconfused: ).


The bios and drivers interact to decide ultimately what your card is, they dont care what is written on the gpu.

Quoted:

"Here are the steps to performing the name/GPU type mod:


Find out what type of GPU your card has (it will be in the format of R4xx).  If it does not say R480 and your card is a Radeon X800 GT, GTO, or GTO² card, if you like you may use one of the methods above to determine whether it is R480 or not.  If it is R480 and is not being shown as such, you may want to use R480 as the GPU type.  Otherwise, just use the same GPU type.
If you are modifying your own bios, get a dump of the bios if you haven't already done so (this can be done with ATITool).
Open the bios you are editing in RaBiT.
Find the driver information file for the driver version you are currently using.  The location of it will be in the main installer folder -> Driver folder -> 2KXP_INF folder.  There will be two of these file types, one for Windows 2000 (C2_?????.inf) and one for Windows XP (CX_?????.inf).  Open one of them.
Search the file for the desired name and proper GPU type.  You may also search for an entry with the same SubVendor ID as your current bios.
  The entries are formatted as shown in this picture:







"

Dolf said u cant change the [first two digits of the ] device ID, you have 55xx device ID and you cant change that.  You can only change the xx part.  As Dolf said, no x850 series uses the device id beginning with 55xx.  So I suggest that maybe you can mod the driver install line of the drivers to make your card r480.

I havent tried this and there may be some fundamental reason I am missing why its not possible, but I present this as an idea.

What I mean is change the above example to:

"Radeon X850 XT Platinum Edition " = ati2mtag_R480, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_55xx&SUBSYS_08121002

I dont think its matters about the subsystem or subvendor id but you should change these to what your card reports in RaBiT (see that guide).


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

Megatron said:
			
		

> The bios and drivers interact to decide ultimately what your card is, they dont care what is written on the gpu.
> 
> Quoted:
> 
> ...



OK, if I understand properly, I should take these two lines:
"Sapphire RADEON X800XL" = ati2mtag_R430, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_554D&SUBSYS_0600174B
"Sapphire RADEON X800XL " = ati2mtag_R430, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_554D&SUBSYS_0660174B

and replace them with this:
"Sapphire RADEON X800XL" = ati2mtag_R480, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_554D&SUBSYS_0600174B
"Sapphire RADEON X800XL " = ati2mtag_R480, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_554D&SUBSYS_0660174B

And then re-install the drivers?  

That sounds tasty, but please confirm this before I blow anything up!  Anyone with experience, let me know if I'm off.


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

*Hah!!!!!*

R480 path has been set, and let's compare the results with my other benches in 3Dmark03

  

I can honestly say this is a 3% to 5% gain in performance


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## _33 (Mar 25, 2006)

*3Dmark05 doesn't sing the same song*

Doubtful R480 path (?)

3Dmark2001SE is a little faster...


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## Megatron (Mar 25, 2006)

That result for 3dmark05 is within a range so close that it should be considered identical (due to the accuracy of the test - just run 2 3dmark bench one after the other and u will not have same score), and 2001 result looks 3k faster than the previous result (perhaps not accurate, previous score is 100Mhz less cpu speed to start with).  3dmark03 if its 3-5% faster cant be bad.

If there are no other problems you should keep it and remember to mod ur driver files each time before install.


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## _33 (Mar 26, 2006)

Megatron said:
			
		

> That result for 3dmark05 is within a range so close that it should be considered identical (due to the accuracy of the test - just run 2 3dmark bench one after the other and u will not have same score), and 2001 result looks 3k faster than the previous result (perhaps not accurate, previous score is 100Mhz less cpu speed to start with).  3dmark03 if its 3-5% faster cant be bad.
> 
> If there are no other problems you should keep it and remember to mod ur driver files each time before install.



Well, that's the thing with my system, everytime I run benchmarks, there are subtile differences.  So, this time I put the XS memory timings before I started benchmarking (I must say), then lowered the memory because I got a crash from the video output, and left the GPU to 504 (I wanted 510) for balancing out the fact I lowered memory a bit.  Since I removed a little paste from the GPU, well it runs 1 or 2 degrees hotter too.  I'm so poor right now I can't affort cooling paste, but I will next thursday and will use it also for memory.

Concerning CPU being little faster, it depends, at 2700, the memory was running a bit faster, and at 2500 something, the HTT was running a little faster than now, so really, it's hard to tell.


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## _33 (Mar 26, 2006)

*About the CX_30895.INF file mod*

I forgot to mention, that by doing that file mod, the driver install gave me a "non WHQL" status.  Now DOOM 3 and QUAKE 4 won't run, and give me a "can not render Open GL" type of error.

I think what I'll do I'll install the Omega drivers...

http://www.omegadrivers.net/


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## _33 (Mar 26, 2006)

*Duh...*

Well....  Seems ATI did a booboo on me  ..  I just can't seem to properly and fully uninstall the ATI drivers.  I go to the ADD/REMOVE in windows, then select to remove ATI drivers and support programs.  After that, I reboot.  Start the lates Omega install (base on Cat 6.2).  As soon as it goes to install the drivers, I get a nice system reboot... :shadedshu 

So I reinstalled the Cat 6.3 without R480 path, and I'm back, again... to square one.


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## Megatron (Mar 26, 2006)

Driver cleaner http://www.drivercleaner.net/


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## _33 (Mar 26, 2006)

Megatron said:
			
		

> Driver cleaner http://www.drivercleaner.net/



Good thinking, thanks!


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## dolf (Mar 26, 2006)

I think that you should live your card like it is with just clock modified BIOS (to be recognized like XL) because the difference between R430 and R480 is the Low-K insulator which means only difference in frequency (higher for R480). Just edit your BIOS with RaBit and set your max core and memory clocks and flash the BIOS back  .


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## _33 (Mar 26, 2006)

dolf said:
			
		

> I think that you should live your card like it is with just clock modified BIOS (to be recognized like XL) because the difference between R430 and R480 is the Low-K insulator which means only difference in frequency (higher for R480). Just edit your BIOS with RaBit and set your max core and memory clocks and flash the BIOS back  .



The problem with being adventurous and reading a lot of forums is you get some sort of itch and you want to try things out and hope for the better.  So, in my case nothing worked except simple overclocks from ATITOOLS, and memory timings.  Right now I am without a display driver.  Can't install Omega drivers.  I went through Driver cleaner, tried all their tactics, and even uninstalled ATITOOLS thinking it could interfere with Omega installation.  Well, it just reboots as soon as it starts installing the actuall video drivers for my Radeon.  It definately sux0rz and definately I am wasting my time with this crap.  I just wanted to use the Omega drivers as they offer some extra features, and to hell with ATI's "advanced user" panel LOL  ... But, I guess they don't want me to.  Maybe if I reformat!  Or just, in a lighter way, "FIX WINDOWS", maybe, but I am positive that it is registry crap.  I remember I had this registry idiocity problem with NERO 6 once...  It just didn't want to be touched, and rebooted my machine.  I'm even tired of asking for any cues  

For maximum overclockability, I'll wait for better cooling solution.  Right now I'm extra short on cash.

But, what about the R480 driver path?   Shouldn't it add some specific elelments from those R480 cards?  Or maybe I just don't understand...


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## Mussels (Mar 27, 2006)

looong thread, but i cant beleive no one found the issue at the start. the reason your card overheated, was because the x850XT mod screws up the auto fan control on the card.... your video cards fan was off.

force it with ATI Tool (and CHECK to see that its really on! not all %'s work) or get a cooler powered directly, and not controlled by the card.

*end*


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## Megatron (Mar 27, 2006)

Usual method:
Uninstall driver and cp or ccc in windows
reboot press f8 for safe mode
run driver cleaner
install driver (optional reboot)
install cp/ccc

If you're getting errors like "install standard vga" then reinstall motherboard drivers.


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## dolf (Mar 27, 2006)

_33 said:
			
		

> The problem with being adventurous and reading a lot of forums is you get some sort of itch and you want to try things out and hope for the better.  So, in my case nothing worked except simple overclocks from ATITOOLS, and memory timings.  Right now I am without a display driver.  Can't install Omega drivers.  I went through Driver cleaner, tried all their tactics, and even uninstalled ATITOOLS thinking it could interfere with Omega installation.  Well, it just reboots as soon as it starts installing the actuall video drivers for my Radeon.  It definately sux0rz and definately I am wasting my time with this crap.  I just wanted to use the Omega drivers as they offer some extra features, and to hell with ATI's "advanced user" panel LOL  ... But, I guess they don't want me to.  Maybe if I reformat!  Or just, in a lighter way, "FIX WINDOWS", maybe, but I am positive that it is registry crap.  I remember I had this registry idiocity problem with NERO 6 once...  It just didn't want to be touched, and rebooted my machine.  I'm even tired of asking for any cues
> 
> For maximum overclockability, I'll wait for better cooling solution.  Right now I'm extra short on cash.
> 
> But, what about the R480 driver path?   Shouldn't it add some specific elelments from those R480 cards?  Or maybe I just don't understand...



To be honest I am not 100% sure but almost 99% that no additioinal specific elements will be added. If the R480 will be recognizeing as R430 but it works at same clock like R480 (which is not possible for the real R430) you will have similar performance with R480 card. R430 is the cheaper version of R480 with lower clock speeds. I don't believe that you will gain something more but you were "obliged" at minimum to try which I understand   and respect.

If I would you I would test the max. core and memory with ATITool and will create custom BIOS using RaBit 1.7 as follows:

Device ID: 554D
SubSystem ID: 0002
SubVendor ID: 1002

Core clock: max. detected in ATITool minus 10-15MHz

Memory clock: max. detected in ATITool minus 15-20MHz

The card will be recognized like ATI X800XL but the core clock will be higher than normally.

Good luck


----------



## Megatron (Mar 27, 2006)

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=827

Am I missing something, I thought he confirmed 3-5% boost.


----------



## dolf (Mar 27, 2006)

If he is happy with 3-5% performance boost and concomitant discomfort (games, modding the drivers every time) OK but probably these 3-5% more could be obtained by higher clocks  .


----------



## ShadowFlare (Mar 27, 2006)

dolf, you are wrong about that thing with not being able to change any of the first two digits on the device ID.  I know for a fact that on cards with R480 chips, you can at least change it in the bios from 55xx to 5Dxx or the other way around and it will work.  However, there are some strange things that do happen on certain AGP cards when trying to change the device ID, and not necessarily with changing either of those two digits.  Things like changing the other two digits causing the 4Bxx to become 4Axx when the original bios has 4Bxx and you changed it to one with 4Bxx.


----------



## dolf (Mar 27, 2006)

It is not a rule it is just observation. I will be happy if I am wrong for the first two digits but the fact that sometimes they are changed means that the key is on the PCB (or combination between the core and PCB). Anyhow I want to understand how the first two digits can be changed but I doubt somebody can explane that fully. I have tried on my cards (X800XT PE and X850XT PE) to do the trick but the result was always one and the same  . 

There is some kind of lock for the first two digits (they obviously depend on PCB type - R480 has device ID for R430  ).

Probably sometimes on some boards the protection is not active or the problem hides within the flash utility I don't know but yes sometimes (I know that) one of the first two digits changes. For sure it is always source for problems. 

I have done some experiment with my cards (to change first two digits of the Device ID) but after flashing they remains unchanged  .


----------



## _33 (Mar 27, 2006)

Megatron said:
			
		

> http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=827
> 
> Am I missing something, I thought he confirmed 3-5% boost.



Old benchmarks also confirmed some noticable improvements from X800 to X850 with same clock speeds.  Check this sheet where it benchmarks both X800XT PE and X850XT PE on DOOM 3.  
There is an 8 to 13% performance difference, and I'm sure it's not just a clockspeed issue 

Here's the full article covering the X850XT PE


----------



## MDK22 (Mar 27, 2006)

Pretty hot topic i never liked omega drivers i use warcat drivers from Tweaks R Us. Most people with x8xx cards see an increase using these drivers i know i do. Make sure to do all the ati things under driver cleaner pro when you do uninstall drivers.

FYI dont use his betas only use finished version.


----------



## _33 (Mar 27, 2006)

MDK22 said:
			
		

> Pretty hot topic i never liked omega drivers i use warcat drivers from Tweaks R Us. Most people with x8xx cards see an increase using these drivers i know i do. Make sure to do all the ati things under driver cleaner pro when you do uninstall drivers.
> 
> FYI dont use his betas only use finished version.



Hi, I have done everything in my power, and in Driver Cleaner Pro, I selected everything ATI and followed the steps, 3 times I did them...  And I noticed Omega drivers for CAT 6.3 aren't out yet, so I'm wondering if the CATs are screwing up the Omega drivers intentionally.

Right now I installed ATI Tray Tools and will replace ATITOOL with it, I figure it's got all the same stuff + more tweaking power and more parms.  I'll just have to get used to the way the memory timings are set up.  But ATITOOL is definately reliable, I think ATI Tray Tools is a definate upgrate.  Plus I flushed ATI Control Panel, anyone with a good reason to put it back?  I don't.  It takes forever to pop up whenever I call it, and it's very limited, and the overdrive is not present.


----------



## MDK22 (Mar 27, 2006)

Only Reason to use the Catalys Control Center is just to set everything to lower for in game play never used ati tray tools so i dont know if you can do it that way.


----------



## _33 (Mar 28, 2006)

ShadowFlare said:
			
		

> dolf, you are wrong about that thing with not being able to change any of the first two digits on the device ID.  I know for a fact that on cards with R480 chips, you can at least change it in the bios from 55xx to 5Dxx or the other way around and it will work.  However, there are some strange things that do happen on certain AGP cards when trying to change the device ID, and not necessarily with changing either of those two digits.  Things like changing the other two digits causing the 4Bxx to become 4Axx when the original bios has 4Bxx and you changed it to one with 4Bxx.



Hi, I was wondering, is your BIOS on ebay or something?  I would *REALLY* like to try it out on my card


----------



## ShadowFlare (Mar 28, 2006)

_33 said:
			
		

> Hi, I was wondering, is your BIOS on ebay or something?  I would *REALLY* like to try it out on my card


What bios?  One for an R480 X800 GTO2 or the same one but with the X850 XT PE name on it? 

Well, here's both.   They are mods of the exact bios you posted, which was from your card.


----------



## dolf (Mar 28, 2006)

It is very interesting what will happen when every of these BIOSes is flashed? Probably the card won't be recognized correctly? 

Please inform us for the results after flashing of the BIOSes.


----------



## ShadowFlare (Mar 29, 2006)

It should work right, I've done it on two of my cards and know of many others who have done it on many different cards with R480 GPU's not identified as R480. (remember my thread about such a thing for X800 GT cards?)  It just doesn't work on certain AGP cards.  On ones with 4Bxx in the ID, if you try to change it to another 4Bxx ID, for some reason it gets changed to a 4Axx ID after flashing it to apply the change.  This happens when trying to change the name on a X850 Pro AGP to a X850 XT PE.  I've only heard of this happening for those and nothing else.  However, for R480's you can change it in the bios to be identified as any R423, R430, or R480 card and have it work (although it will not work optimally if not set as R480).


----------



## _33 (Mar 29, 2006)

ShadowFlare said:
			
		

> What bios?  One for an R480 X800 GTO2 or the same one but with the X850 XT PE name on it?
> 
> Well, here's both.   They are mods of the exact bios you posted, which was from your card.




Hi Shadowflare, I don't understand your message.  Will the card be recognized as a X850 from the drivers?  That's all I'm looking for ATM is the drivers to think I have the right card (X850).  Of course VIVO and DUAL DVI recognition is a must.


----------



## ShadowFlare (Mar 29, 2006)

_33 said:
			
		

> Hi Shadowflare, I don't understand your message.  Will the card be recognized as a X850 from the drivers?  That's all I'm looking for ATM is the drivers to think I have the right card (X850).  Of course VIVO and DUAL DVI recognition is a must.


Yes, either of those will do that.  They are basically the same bios, just that the first one will have Windows detecting it as "RADEON X800 GTO" and will show as having an R480 chip in ATITool, and the second one will make it be detected as "RADEON X850 XT Platinum Edition"  The performance will be the same with either.  Just choose one of those two bioses depending on which name you want the card detected with.


----------



## _33 (Mar 29, 2006)

ShadowFlare said:
			
		

> Yes, either of those will do that.  They are basically the same bios, just that the first one will have Windows detecting it as "RADEON X800 GTO" and will show as having an R480 chip in ATITool, and the second one will make it be detected as "RADEON X850 XT Platinum Edition"  The performance will be the same with either.  Just choose one of those two bioses depending on which name you want the card detected with.



OK, two questions before I ACT:
1) Which program do you recommend to flash the BIOS? (should read your guide maybe)
2) Should I remove the ATI drivers beforehand?

Also, I was wondering if you had any clue as to why I can't install the Omega drivers?


----------



## ShadowFlare (Mar 29, 2006)

_33 said:
			
		

> OK, two questions before I ACT:
> 1) Which program do you recommend to flash the BIOS? (should read your guide maybe)
> 2) Should I remove the ATI drivers beforehand?
> 
> Also, I was wondering if you had any clue as to why I can't install the Omega drivers?


Hmm, any of the 3 flash utilities should be fine.  Since it will be detected as a new device anyway, you could remove the drivers first if you want.


----------



## _33 (Mar 29, 2006)

ShadowFlare said:
			
		

> Hmm, any of the 3 flash utilities should be fine.  Since it will be detected as a new device anyway, you could remove the drivers first if you want.



OK, I used winflash, used the X850 XT PE modded BIOS and it works.  The card is recognized as it says R480 XT PE et cetc  

I'll do benchmarks tomorrow


----------



## _33 (Mar 29, 2006)

*Resluts*

OK, I have run 3Dmark05 with the new BIOS image, well I get 6576, which is the same results I had last time I ran it.  3Dmark03 gave me 13288...

Seems it's not giving anything.  Oh well.  Maybe I'll re-install the drivers and then see if it does anything since then it should really think it's an X850.  Thoe it sux to have GPU ATI RADEON X850 XT PE and frequencies at 505 MHz / 586 MHz.  It doesn't look as good as X800XL....  Now it just looks like an underclocked poorly performing X850XT PE  

Well, that will change when I get water cooling going on


----------



## MDK22 (Mar 29, 2006)

Ah and we have another new oveclocking addict. He went from i dunno if i wanna take fan off to im getting watercooling i must say good job guys on the convert. lol


----------



## _33 (Mar 29, 2006)

MDK22 said:
			
		

> Ah and we have another new oveclocking addict. He went from i dunno if i wanna take fan off to im getting watercooling i must say good job guys on the convert. lol



But it annoying when you reinstall your drivers and CCC and then you notice you got MIP MAP detail level in there, which is not an option available in ATT.... SUX!  I hate CCC!!!!


----------



## MDK22 (Mar 29, 2006)

Set it to advanced mode its easier to deal with then just drop everything down. Apply it then use tray tools to change what you want and apply it overtop of CCC and you should be fine. Also did you try those drivers yet or no.


----------



## _33 (Mar 29, 2006)

The things holding me down in terms of speed in my system are the following, which I have noticed while comparing my benchmark results with others:

- My poor Kingston KVR memory (max'd @ 405mhz cas 2.5 on 2.8v  )
- My poor X800 cooling outfit (VF900-Cu soon, or water cooling   )
- My A64 stock cooling (Zalman or water cooling, soon, maybe    )

Besides that, in terms of software, I don't really see what I can do more...


----------



## dolf (Mar 29, 2006)

33, could you please tell me what is your current card's Device ID (after flashing) with the modded X850XT PE BIOS. If it is recognized like X850 it means that the actual device ID is changed from 55xx to 5Dxx?
I have tried on my X800 and X850 both AGP but the first two digits could't be changed obviously there is difference between AGP and PCIX.


----------



## _33 (Mar 29, 2006)

dolf said:
			
		

> 33, could you please tell me what is your current card's Device ID (after flashing) with the modded X850XT PE BIOS. If it is recognized like X850 it means that the actual device ID is changed from 55xx to 5Dxx?
> I have tried on my X800 and X850 both AGP but the first two digits could't be changed obviously there is difference between AGP and PCIX.


 
Here goes


----------



## BourqueJ (Mar 31, 2006)

Hi all,

I just bought a Sapphire X800 GTO2 VIVO SPecial edition which seems to be exactly the same card as 33 have. (same ID, etc)

Now, I am still at the point of "should I remove the fan..."  (my actual experience with overclocking is just checking the overdrive mode on my old radeon 9600XT.

I understand that the last bios posted here will enabled my card to be a X850 XT PE VIVO. I still have some questions before proceeding with flashing and everything. 

1. Will the stock fan do the job?
2. Is there a potential problem with having the fan run at maximum speed to keep the temp low?
3. Will I have any improvement by using the bios previously posted?
4. I curently have catalyst 6.3 installed and an overclocking tool (Trixx) which came with the card. Should I change the drivers and uninstall Trixx?
5. What is the maximum temp for the card? (don't want to blow it up)

I'm sorry if those questions were previously answered elsewhere, i'm am never sure if the answers are good for my current card.

Thanks!

Jacques.


----------



## _33 (Mar 31, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> 
> I just bought a Sapphire X800 GTO2 VIVO SPecial edition which seems to be exactly the same card as 33 have. (same ID, etc)
> 
> ...


1) yes, I am on stock fan and it does the job, but poorly
2) Just more noise
3) At your own risk, it's my bios after all and was patched.  I recommend having your bios modded and reflashed
4) Uninstall Trix, and use ATITOOL or Ati Tray Tools
5) R480 can take about 85°c, but the memory takes less and will cause your system reboots


----------



## BourqueJ (Mar 31, 2006)

Thanks for your response.

I think I can say for sure that mine is a R480. I've followed the instruction from this post: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=8060

The value of the CONFIG_DIE_FUSES is 0xFFFFFFFF and the CONFIG_SUBSTRATE_FUSES is 0xFFFFFF9F. I am not ready yet to remove the fan because I don't have any cooling paste ATM. 

ATITool is telling me that hte chip is a R430 but I overclocked it yesterday setting the speeds to 510/588 and playing Quake4 for an hour or 2. The temperature did not went above 65-66 and I did not see any artifacts.

I ran a "Find max mem" and a "Find max core" also. The mem seems to not go above 627.xx (no errors at that point but never went above it) and the core was at >540 (don't remember the exact number). I aborted the core test because the temperature was going above 70 (not sure what was the max so).

I have attached the dump of my bios that I got from ATITool. Can you validate if it's the same as yours? or can someone help me with modifying it the same way you did for 33? 

Thanks agin for your help, I appreciate it.

Jacques.


----------



## ShadowFlare (Apr 1, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> Thanks for your response.
> 
> I think I can say for sure that mine is a R480. I've followed the instruction from this post: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=8060
> 
> ...


It is identical to the bios _33 posted, so you can go ahead and use the modified one I posted, since you confirmed it to be R480.


----------



## BourqueJ (Apr 1, 2006)

Thanks ShadowFlare...

quick questions before I proceed. Can I be wrong about the R480 chip? What will happen if I am, will I be able to flash it back to what it was? Can you tell me what is changed in the bios? (memory timmings, core and mem speed)


----------



## BourqueJ (Apr 1, 2006)

I've been reading around some other forums and people seems to say that if you already have the 16 pipes enabled (my case) then flashing your card won't give you anything more. (except maybe increase in core and mem speed which can be done with ATITool) Is this true? I beleive that with this bios, ATITool will recognize my chip as being an R480 but does this give me better performance?

Thanks again,

Jacques.


----------



## ShadowFlare (Apr 1, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> Thanks ShadowFlare...
> 
> quick questions before I proceed. Can I be wrong about the R480 chip? What will happen if I am, will I be able to flash it back to what it was? Can you tell me what is changed in the bios? (memory timmings, core and mem speed)


I'm sure you aren't wrong about it being an R480 chip.  If it in fact is not an R480 chip, it may possibly go black when you reboot after flashing and not show anything at all or it may still boot, but be unable to clock as high.

The part that is changed in the bios is mainly just the device ID, but the subsystem ID and subvendor ID were also changed; all by using RaBiT.  Nothing else was done with it.


----------



## ShadowFlare (Apr 1, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> I've been reading around some other forums and people seems to say that if you already have the 16 pipes enabled (my case) then flashing your card won't give you anything more. (except maybe increase in core and mem speed which can be done with ATITool) Is this true? I beleive that with this bios, ATITool will recognize my chip as being an R480 but does this give me better performance?
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Jacques.


I know it does give better performance making it say R480 on cards with an R480 that is improperly identified as R423 (many X800 GT cards are this way), however I don't know whether the same is true for an R480 identified as R430.  It's possible that nothing will change other than the chip type shown.


----------



## BourqueJ (Apr 1, 2006)

> I know it does give better performance making it say R480 on cards with an R480 that is improperly identified as R423 (many X800 GT cards are this way), however I don't know whether the same is true for an R480 identified as R430. It's possible that nothing will change other than the chip type shown.



I've been investigating my original bios with Rabit and I've noticed something strange about this chip thing. Looking under the logging tab, R480 is mentionned everywhere. I don't see R430 in there. Looking at the first tab, the device id field shows that my card's devide id is 554D with "Radeon X800 series (*R423*)" as the description. Getting a little confuse about this number. Any idea?

I've also read people losing the control of the fan after flashing a new bios on their x850 pro card. Is it the same for my card?


----------



## ShadowFlare (Apr 1, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> I've been investigating my original bios with Rabit and I've noticed something strange about this chip thing. Looking under the logging tab, R480 is mentionned everywhere. I don't see R430 in there. Looking at the first tab, the device id field shows that my card's devide id is 554D with "Radeon X800 series (*R423*)" as the description. Getting a little confuse about this number. Any idea?


That's just because RaBiT doesn't recognize the R480 device IDs.



> I've also read people losing the control of the fan after flashing a new bios on their x850 pro card. Is it the same for my card?


It won't happen when using a modified version of your bios, just if you use a different card's bios.


----------



## BourqueJ (Apr 1, 2006)

Alright, thanks for the help. I'll try it out and post the result back. Wish me luck!


----------



## BourqueJ (Apr 1, 2006)

The flashing process went well. My system is now reporting that I have a X850 XT PE. The device ID have been changed from 554D to 5D4D. (I saw on other posts people saying that it could not be change) ATITool now reports that the chip is an R480 but doesnt seem to have any effect on performance.

I did some bench before and after flashing the bios. Here are the results:

3DMark06 Bench (SM2.0 score)
------------------------------

X800 Bio 
  400/490 (stock): 882
  510/588: 1103

X850 Bios
  400/490 (stock): 888
  510/588: 1104

With my speeds overclocked to 510/588, the temperature of my GPU during the bench was at max 63.4/48. What are the maximum temperature for my card and what are the recommended one?


----------



## _33 (Apr 1, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> The flashing process went well. My system is now reporting that I have a X850 XT PE. The device ID have been changed from 554D to 5D4D. (I saw on other posts people saying that it could not be change) ATITool now reports that the chip is an R480 but doesnt seem to have any effect on performance.
> 
> I did some bench before and after flashing the bios. Here are the results:
> 
> ...




An X850XT PE runs around 70°c GPU when it plays 3D games, so you are definately under that, but an XT PE has the GPU clock at 540.  You shouldn't worry about GPU temperature.  The real limiting factor is the memory temperature IMHO.  I know my R480 can easily take 75°c without making the computer reboot.


----------



## BourqueJ (Apr 1, 2006)

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

I ran a couple of test with the clocks set to 540/590 (X850 XT PE speed) and the temperature when up to 64.1 in 3DMark06 and 67.5 in ATITool. (I'm assuming that ATITool ask much more on the card since I never got these temp in game)

Been scanning for artifacts with speed set to 560/590 for 15 minutes now and the temperatures are stable at 68/51.

I want to thank you all again for your help, it is really appreciated. I will test out those settigns a little more and start looking to overclock my Opteron 144 a little bit.

Cheers!

Jacques.


----------



## ShadowFlare (Apr 1, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> The flashing process went well. My system is now reporting that I have a X850 XT PE. The device ID have been changed from 554D to 5D4D. (I saw on other posts people saying that it could not be change) ATITool now reports that the chip is an R480 but doesnt seem to have any effect on performance.
> 
> I did some bench before and after flashing the bios. Here are the results:
> 
> ...


OK, I guess this means that on cards with R480 GPUs, only flashing the bios to change between R423 and R480 affects performance and that changing between R430 and R480 does not.


----------



## BourqueJ (Apr 1, 2006)

I have to mention that I interogate ATIFlash about my device and it reported my card as having a device id of 554D and having a "asic" (don't know what is is) to be R423. Then again, it might be ATIFlash not being able to recognize the R480 chip.


----------



## dolf (Apr 1, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> The flashing process went well. My system is now reporting that I have a X850 XT PE. The device ID have been changed from 554D to 5D4D. (I saw on other posts people saying that it could not be change) ATITool now reports that the chip is an R480 but doesnt seem to have any effect on performance.
> 
> I did some bench before and after flashing the bios. Here are the results:
> 
> ...



Obviously on the native PCIX the Device ID  could be changed from 55xx to 5Dxx which is very nice and useful for the people. On the native AGP cards it is not possible to change the first two digits of the Device ID for some reason at least on X800XT and X850XT (I have both and have tested it personally).


----------



## _33 (Apr 2, 2006)

Like BourqueJ, I cannot exceed 510/588 (or around that) as the video card shuts off and then my system reboots.  For some time I have wondered what makes this card take off like that and I came up with the voltage mod pages on TechPowerUp!  

So here is what it looks like behind my GTO2 card (image stolen from someone who is trying pencil mod)











I like this image as it really zooms in the details of the VID0 up to VID4 and also the R1596 and R1597.  So R1854, R1855 up to R1858 are same as him, R1596 and R1597 too.  I believe we got same bloody GTO2 cards.  I heard about vmodding the card with success in adding up to 45 mhz to the GPU, so that is exactly what I wish to do.

Reading from the voltage mod pages here, all I see is the blue board, and it's hard to understand exactly what to do, as I have no voltmeter and only some rudimentary tools, and a pencil.  I have done nothing yet, don't want to break a fine card.

Of course after vmod, I'll bench


----------



## BourqueJ (Apr 2, 2006)

> Like BourqueJ, I cannot exceed 510/588 (or around that) as the video card shuts off and then my system reboots. For some time I have wondered what makes this card take off like that and I came up with the voltage mod pages on TechPowerUp!
> 
> So here is what it looks like behind my GTO2 card (image stolen from someone who is trying pencil mod)
> 
> ...



Actually, I use 510/588 because it was, or nearly was, the values you used with your card. I'm currently running it at 540/590 stable so far. (stock voltage and fan) I was even able to push it to 560/590 but the temp was getting close to 70 and I found this a little hot. Then again, I'm all new to OC and I never really checked my card temperature before. (my old 9600 XT was probably not that hot)

I do beleive we have the same card. I did not check the chip's SN but mine had the 16 pipes already enabled, our bios are the same, my board is red, I have VIVO. Have you put some compound after you removed the fan? 

I don't have any pictures of my actual card but this the card I bough:

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=17166

There is a link for some customer photos.


----------



## _33 (Apr 2, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> Actually, I use 510/588 because it was, or nearly was, the values you used with your card. I'm currently running it at 540/590 stable so far. (stock voltage and fan) I was even able to push it to 560/590 but the temp was getting close to 70 and I found this a little hot. Then again, I'm all new to OC and I never really checked my card temperature before. (my old 9600 XT was probably not that hot)
> 
> I do beleive we have the same card. I did not check the chip's SN but mine had the 16 pipes already enabled, our bios are the same, my board is red, I have VIVO. Have you put some compound after you removed the fan?
> 
> ...



If you could take a picture of the area where you have all the voltage settings, it would help me do the same mod, because right now it's bigtime confusion. 

Oh mine is not OEM, it's a full boxed version with all the adapters and 3 CDs, but it is coded as LITE model when you look at distributor lists.


----------



## BourqueJ (Apr 2, 2006)

> If you could take a picture of the area where you have all the voltage settings, it would help me do the same mod, because right now it's bigtime confusion.
> 
> Oh mine is not OEM, it's a full boxed version with all the adapters and 3 CDs, but it is coded as LITE model when you look at distributor lists.



Humm.. excuse my ignorance but what exactly you want me to take picture off? 

As for the OEM part, it was actually a box. I have all the cables and adapters and got 2 CD. (drivers/trixx and demo games I think)


----------



## _33 (Apr 2, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> Humm.. excuse my ignorance but what exactly you want me to take picture off?
> 
> As for the OEM part, it was actually a box. I have all the cables and adapters and got 2 CD. (drivers/trixx and demo games I think)



OK remember picture of the red board couple messages up of this thread, well the location of this is basically behind the card, where the theatre chip is located (or let's say around that place) but a little upwards from there.  If you could take a picture so I would know how to mod my card, then I would be able to reach same clocks as you!  A high res picture or really zoomed in, with good lighting  

It's annoying when your GPU is 65°c at 515 mhz and the system shuts down....... :shadedshu  It's the card that does this on it's own from voltage setting.  I want to fix that.


----------



## _33 (Apr 2, 2006)

Here's a thread I found that talks about modding the card.  It is from an Italian site, so... I used Google translator... 

Funny also that THAT thread redirects to TechPowerUp! for the vmod guide.  It's a general GTO2 modding guide.  But really I'm looking at vmodding the card right now.


----------



## BourqueJ (Apr 2, 2006)

I'm sorry, the only camera I have is my cell phone and it does not do a good job for this... shocking!. 

But I checked the following connectors:

R1854: Bridged
R1855: Bridged
R1856: Not bridged
R1857: Not bridged
R1858: Bridged
R1596: Bridged
R1597: Not bridged

I beleive it's the same as the picture you posted.


----------



## _33 (Apr 2, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, the only camera I have is my cell phone and it does not do a good job for this... shocking!.
> 
> But I checked the following connectors:
> 
> ...



Hooooo, so that means the problem is not there!  It must be somewhere near then.  I'll read that vmod page again to make sure I understand something.  But it's good you told me, in such case I'm positive that I shouldn't touch these jumpers.


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## BourqueJ (Apr 2, 2006)

Can it be you CPU that is overheating?


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## _33 (Apr 2, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> Can it be you CPU that is overheating?



at 35°c, I doubt, it has never gone above 42°c  
The way it works when an X800 GTO2 card decides it had enough, it shuts down the signals it's sending, which turns off your monitor.  Then your system doesn't know what's going on and the ATI drivers decide to reboot the system.  That's exactly how I understand it.

And while we're at it, I just updated my mobo BIOS.  Now I can get better CPU overclock & memory timings  .  I can go up to 325 fsb (close to 3ghz cpu) but unstable, 320 fsb is workable, so I'm at 315 fsb and it's really smooth operation, system worked all night and works real great, low temps.

DFI Lanparty UT NF4  R000XXX


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## BourqueJ (Apr 3, 2006)

I took some pictures last night with my brother's camera...


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## _33 (Apr 9, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> I took some pictures last night with my brother's camera...



I don't see anything different between your card and mine.  Too bad the focus is on the wrong spot, otherwise I could read the codes.  I still don't know what I need to do to my card to overclock up to XT PE levels.


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## BourqueJ (Apr 10, 2006)

> I don't see anything different between your card and mine. Too bad the focus is on the wrong spot, otherwise I could read the codes. I still don't know what I need to do to my card to overclock up to XT PE levels.



Yeah... I had a hard time adjusting the focus on the camera. (not mine )

It's weird that your computer reboots when the temperature reaches 65 degree. I don't have any problem at all even at 70 degree. What kind of thermal compound did you used? I've read that the Artic Silver will liquify when getting hot and if not properly spread or if you put too much, it could bleed and fall on the board making a short. Then again, if it was your case, your card probably just fried right away. I'm just throwing ideas here. 

I've also read that most recent cards have an internal mechanism to protect against overheat. Maybe yours is set too low? (don't know if it's adjustable)


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## _33 (Apr 10, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> Yeah... I had a hard time adjusting the focus on the camera. (not mine )
> 
> It's weird that your computer reboots when the temperature reaches 65 degree. I don't have any problem at all even at 70 degree. What kind of thermal compound did you used? I've read that the Artic Silver will liquify when getting hot and if not properly spread or if you put too much, it could bleed and fall on the board making a short. Then again, if it was your case, your card probably just fried right away. I'm just throwing ideas here.
> 
> I've also read that most recent cards have an internal mechanism to protect against overheat. Maybe yours is set too low? (don't know if it's adjustable)



That could be the case, but I know it can go up to 74°c without rebooting.  I've done this erroneously because of a bad firmware flash that happened.  So, I do nelieve that the card asks for more voltage.


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## BourqueJ (Apr 10, 2006)

> That could be the case, but I know it can go up to 74°c without rebooting. I've done this erroneously because of a bad firmware flash that happened. So, I do nelieve that the card asks for more voltage.



Humm.. I'm affraid this is getting out of my knowledge.  But if you need anything (information, pictures or whatever), just ask!


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## infrared (Apr 10, 2006)

i can mod your bios to show as an x850xtpe, with whatever speeds you want, and working fan control if you like. The overheating problem arose because for some unknown reason, flashing an x850 bios to the x800gto2 causes the fan control to screw up. You probably have an r480 that failed the speedtests, and wasn't good enough for the x850xt(pe), so instead of throwing it away, the guarantee the core for 400mhz, and sell it. Unfortuantly, a lot of sapphire's _newer_ gto2's use these slow r480's. No loss though, coming with the full 16 pipes, and 1.6ns ram is a great deal.


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## _33 (Apr 10, 2006)

infrared said:
			
		

> i can mod your bios to show as an x850xtpe, with whatever speeds you want, and working fan control if you like. The overheating problem arose because for some unknown reason, flashing an x850 bios to the x800gto2 causes the fan control to screw up. You probably have an r480 that failed the speedtests, and wasn't good enough for the x850xt(pe), so instead of throwing it away, the guarantee the core for 400mhz, and sell it. Unfortuantly, a lot of sapphire's _newer_ gto2's use these slow r480's. No loss though, coming with the full 16 pipes, and 1.6ns ram is a great deal.




I am gradually thinking exactly like you.  But it's sad to think it's just luck, and some are more lucky than others.  But hey, it plays HL2 / DOOM 3 / FEAR / QUAKE 4 / SERIOUS SAM 2 etc etc just fine!  I do get some very minor slowdowns in DOOM 3 in the last bist of the railway level where you get all those flames, slows down dramatically for unknown reasons.  Otherwise it's awesome and fast!  Temporal AA looks awesome, but is crap because of that lapsus between me working the controls, and the images being a couple of frames late.

Anyway, I'll have to accept the fact, it's just not gonna get any better! :shadedshu 

There should be a poll about this, see how many people got the lowly overcloking cores compared to the 600mhz earth shattering overclocked cores.


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## infrared (Apr 10, 2006)

i was very lucky, mine does 585mhz, i'm volt modding it soon, and am hoping for 630mhz, but that might be a bit optimistic. I'm not gonna take the core higher than 1.55v, i'm expecting the temps to get to around 70c with my ati silencer @ 100%. I volt modded my old x800xl, but the r430 core didn't respond to more voltage  I got a huge increase on the memory though, i got my 2.0ns memory up to 610mhz  I just wander how far my 1.6ns mem will go with some more voltage

You can usually tell which one you are getting from the p/n (part number) on the box.


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## BourqueJ (Apr 10, 2006)

> i was very lucky, mine does 585mhz, i'm volt modding it soon, and am hoping for 630mhz, but that might be a bit optimistic. I'm not gonna take the core higher than 1.55v, i'm expecting the temps to get to around 70c with my ati silencer @ 100%. I volt modded my old x800xl, but the r430 core didn't respond to more voltage  I got a huge increase on the memory though, i got my 2.0ns memory up to 610mhz  I just wander how far my 1.6ns mem will go with some more voltage
> 
> You can usually tell which one you are getting from the p/n (part number) on the box.



I'm currently looking for a good cooling replacement and I have my eye on the ati silencer. I have some questions regarding this product and I sure like the opinion of someone actually using it. (on a card like mine )

1. What rev is your ati silencer? 
2. What kind of thermal compound did you used? 
3. Any problem with installation?
4. Was it a good choice? 

Thanks!


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## _33 (Apr 10, 2006)

BourqueJ said:
			
		

> I'm currently looking for a good cooling replacement and I have my eye on the ati silencer. I have some questions regarding this product and I sure like the opinion of someone actually using it. (on a card like mine )
> 
> 1. What rev is your ati silencer?
> 2. What kind of thermal compound did you used?
> ...




Shouldn't the ATI Silencer come with heat pads?  They are basically compound on the cooling solution.  All you have to do is stick the cooling solution and the compound will be there, so no worries about that.


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## BourqueJ (Apr 10, 2006)

Well, I was thinking of using Artic Silver on it. I was wondering if I will see a difference with it.


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## infrared (Apr 10, 2006)

Artic cooling MX-1 thermal compound is pre-applied. This is basically a thicker version of AS5, and is much more effective with this cooler. I tried AS5, and noticed a 4c increase at idle, and a 6c increase at load even after a few days to let it set.

The thermal pads on the memory are not too brilliant, but as long as the backplate is screwed on tight, they work well. The cooler is soo quiet, it's awsome, and the airflow, even at 50% is brilliant.


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## BourqueJ (Apr 10, 2006)

> Artic cooling MX-1 thermal compound is pre-applied. This is basically a thicker version of AS5, and is much more effective with this cooler. I tried AS5, and noticed a 4c increase at idle, and a 6c increase at load.



I don't think it's just a thicker version of the AS5 since AS5 is made of silver and this one is not. I've people talking about it and comparing them and some says the MX1 is better, others says that it's AS5. 

I've looked at a chart on their website and the MX1 is on top of the list. (but AS5 is not.. AS2 and AS3 only)

The only thing people are complaining about is that it's very hard to apply. (too thick) Did you use only the one that came on the coller or did you reapplied some MX1 after trying AS5?


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## infrared (Apr 11, 2006)

At first i used the pre-applied mx-1, then refitted the cooler, after cleaning the core, and cooler with arcticlean, and applied the AS5... temps rose, so i repeated the cleaning, and applied the mx-1. It is very thick, the trick is to run a line of mx-1 along one edge of the gpu, and with a credit card, firmly spread the paste across. I normally spread it in an even layer, then add a small drop in the center. Whichever grease you decide to use, i definatly recomend buying some arcticlean, it is awsome stuff.


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## BourqueJ (Apr 11, 2006)

> At first i used the pre-applied mx-1, then refitted the cooler, after cleaning the core, and cooler with arcticlean, and applied the AS5... temps rose, so i repeated the cleaning, and applied the mx-1. It is very thick, the trick is to run a line of mx-1 along one edge of the gpu, and with a credit card, firmly spread the paste across. I normally spread it in an even layer, then add a small drop in the center. Whichever grease you decide to use, i definatly recomend buying some arcticlean, it is awsome stuff.



Thanks for the trick! I never really applied any compound before and I was a little affraid to mess things up. (since people were saying how hard it is to apply it)

I will also take your advice on the ArtiClean. I'm checking at ncix right now to see if I can order some.

Thanks!


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## BourqueJ (Apr 11, 2006)

One more question.. does this come with extra compound? (i will need some for my cpu)


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## Megatron (Apr 11, 2006)

Artic silver has a settle in time.  I tried shin-etsu paste and I couldnt tell the difference plus it was harder to spread, Ive still got most of a syringe of AC5 left, so thats what I use.  I cant see how a thicker paste will perform better unless you have poor contact between heatsink and core.

I use white spirit/methelated spirit to clean old TIM off.


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## infrared (Apr 11, 2006)

Megatron said:
			
		

> Artic silver has a settle in time.  I tried shin-etsu paste and I couldnt tell the difference plus it was harder to spread, Ive still got most of a syringe of AC5 left, so thats what I use.  I cant see how a thicker paste will perform better unless you have poor contact between heatsink and core.
> 
> I use white spirit/methelated spirit to clean old TIM off.



Yep, either paste is good as long as the contact is good. I still saw slightly higher temps even after the settle in time with the AS5, not sure why. It's such a small difference i wouldn't worry about it. Methelated spirit is ok for cleaning the heatsink, but white spirit leaves a residue. And arcticlean is much more effective than either, you need to try it to believe it 



			
				BourqueJ said:
			
		

> One more question.. does this come with extra compound? (i will need some for my cpu)



Nope, unfortunatly it doesn't, but it's very cheap to buy a small syringe of the stuff.


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## BourqueJ (Apr 12, 2006)

Thanks guys, I will put a some in my order then.

Cheers!


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## maRSuu (Apr 18, 2006)

hi, 

i have also a sapphire x800 gto^2, which is identified as r430, i haven´t take a closer look at the chip, but i think it´s a r480, because overclocking works well.
what are your experience with the bios tweaking?
is it worth the work, because the 16 pixelpipelines are activated by default, and driveroptimisation should be minimal, because the r430 an r480 are too similar, as i know only the semiconductorfabrication process is different...


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## BourqueJ (Apr 18, 2006)

> hi,
> 
> i have also a sapphire x800 gto^2, which is identified as r430, i haven´t take a closer look at the chip, but i think it´s a r480, because overclocking works well.
> what are your experience with the bios tweaking?
> is it worth the work, because the 16 pixelpipelines are activated by default, and driveroptimisation should be minimal, because the r430 an r480 are too similar, as i know only the semiconductorfabrication process is different...



the only difference i've noticed is that now my system is reporting it as being a X850 XT PE. I've done benchmark before and after flashing the bios and no difference. I would stick with the bios you have. (to be safe )


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## moon_t (May 1, 2006)

*Bios clock speed alteration*

Hi,

I've read through this and other topics here with great interest and have hopefully understood everything. I just have one big question though regarding how the card would be identified in crossfire mode.

I have the dual DVI VIVO GTO2, definately the R480 as I run it at X850 XT speeds through profiles in ATI Tray Tools, the bios dump is also identical to the one 33 posted way back in the thread.

I realise that I can use the modded bios posted here to get the card to show as an X850 XT PE ,but is it OK to use Rabit to modify the default memory and GPU clocks in the bios as opposed to using ATI tool to overclock?

The reason I ask is that I have just bought a sapphire pure crossfire mobo and wanted to use my gto2 as a slave, preferably purchasing an X850 XT crossfire master that won't automatically throttle its speed back if it identifies the gto2 as an X800XL. I don't really want to buy and X800 master as that would be a lot slower than my gto2 when clocked, but am not sure about the compatibility issues from the crossfire perspective once I have flashed the gto2 bios.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Moon T


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## ShadowFlare (May 1, 2006)

moon_t said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I've read through this and other topics here with great interest and have hopefully understood everything. I just have one big question though regarding how the card would be identified in crossfire mode.
> 
> ...


Well, when using with an X850 crossfire card, you definately would want it saying it is R480, not R430, so you should probably flash the bios to change it.  As for modifying the clock speeds in RaBiT, test it first with ATITool to make sure it can handle the speed you are going to set.  Also, you may not want to set the default clock speeds right at the max that you find, it is probably best to set it somewhat lower.  Since it is the default that would always be used at startup, I'd recommend going around 20 - 30 MHz or more lower than the max you find, especially for the GPU.  For the memory, it may not matter so much as long as you don't set the default speed beyond the default of 587 that the X850 XT PE uses.


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## moon_t (May 1, 2006)

Thanks for the quick reply

As for speeds I can get up to XT PE speeds with no problems (560/600 highest I've dared to take it) and game for a number of hours without the slightest problem. For absolute peace of mind though I clock it at windows boot time to the X850 XT speed of 520/540.

I just didn't want to make an expensive mistake and buy the X850 XT crossfire if it would be incompatible.

Thanks again


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## infrared (May 1, 2006)

hmm, you'll have to tell us how that goes, i'm also interested in setting my x800gto2 up in crossfire. My only problem is the two pci-e slots on my board are in a 16x/4x configuration. How much would running one card in the 4x slot limit performance? I might try running my card in the bottom slot when i get it back from my mate's house later on, and do some benchmarking.


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## BourqueJ (May 10, 2006)

Ok, I just received and installed my new fan for my video. I just wanted to make a followup on certain things.

1. My chip IS a R480.
2. I overclocked my card to 609/618.. idle temp is 35 and load temp is 62 degree. (while scanning for artifacts from AtiTool.. never go that far in games)

The fan I bought is an Arctic Cooling ATI Silencer 5 rev. 2. It is very quiet now, even at 100% (which never go there), I cannot hear it. I have to say tho that the setup is not like I was expecting it. The power cable from the psu is really hard to remove now because of the lock on it. I have an ASUS A8N-E motherboard and one of the screw on the back of the card was in the way on the first memory bank bracket. (it's now bent a little) And finally, the lock for the video card (on the motherboard) is now even harder to push back.

But anyway, I am quite satisfied with my choice. Thanks again for all of your help!


Jacques.


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## _33 (Nov 12, 2006)

BourqueJ said:


> Ok, I just received and installed my new fan for my video. I just wanted to make a followup on certain things.
> 
> 1. My chip IS a R480.
> 2. I overclocked my card to 609/618.. idle temp is 35 and load temp is 62 degree. (while scanning for artifacts from AtiTool.. never go that far in games)
> ...



609/618, incredible for a card that is default clocked 400/490 and from the value bin!!!  Oh well...

Last thing I need to try is change my PSU for an OCZ, ANTEC or maybe an ENERMAX.  Currently, when I launch a game or 3D bench and it switches to D3D / 3D mode, all my fans slow down in the system!  I must have a PSU problem.

EDIT:  But it is still very puzzling that I can only overclock to 510 mhz GPU and that the ingame temperature doesn't even reach 60°c.  This core is bound to be overclockable more than that!


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