# German Company to Sell Binned Core i7 8700K With 99.9% Silver Heatspreader



## Raevenlord (Oct 7, 2017)

For those users who thought they'd like some silver with their Intel, german webshop Caseking has a product for you. The company has taken the binning concept that we've already seen with other webshops, which pass the onus of the silicon lottery towards themselves, and taken it to the next level. Caseking will offer Core i7 8700K products that have not only been binned towards achieving guaranteed speeds of 5 GHz, 5.1 GHz and 5.2 GHz, but they're also retrofitting these binned 8700K processors with a 99.9% purity silver heatspreader to improve operating temperatures for these guaranteed-overclocking processors.



 



Caseking is basically testing batches of i7 8700K processors, delidding them, and then applying Thermal Grizzly's Conductonaut liquid metal thermal grease and the aforementioned silver heatspreader to improve operating temperatures as much as they can be. The company is doing this in partnership with overclocking poster child der8auer, and brands the silver IHS with both Caseking's and Der8auer's logo. The silver heatspreader versions of the Core i7 8700K are being sold as the Ultra Edition, and Caseking are asking a hefty premium for their binned CPUs: €690 will get you an 8700K that is guaranteed to clock up to 5.0 GHz, €750 will guarantee 5.1 GHz, and the premium of premiums (for now, we'd imagine) 5.2 GHz overclockable processor will cost €870. 



 

These are some hefty, hefty price premiums to be sure; however, the company really is taking many risks out of their prospective buyer's hands, in that they not only won't have to bet on the silicon lottery to get some good results, but also won't have to run the risk of delidding their six-core Intel CPU. There's also an Advanced Edition (stock heatspreader with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut) and a Pro Edition (Niquel-plated heatspreader with Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut) available, for lower prices than the silver options.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Durvelle27 (Oct 7, 2017)

Doesn’t seem worth it to me

I rather take my chances for half the cost


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## blobster21 (Oct 7, 2017)

I'll just pretend i didn't read this. Anything with the derbrowner trademark can be safely ignored.


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## diatribe (Oct 7, 2017)

I may be interested in one of those heatspreaders for my our CPU.


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## RejZoR (Oct 7, 2017)

I remember I've paid tiny premium for a D0 stepping of Core i7 920 back in the day. It was like 20€ premium, but it was worth it imo.

Main question her is, why doesn't Intel use top of the line thermal compound and charge I don't know, 15€ more? Surely such tiny premium would still give them massive profit margin on each CPU (where they use cheap generic crap and charge nothing extra for it) while giving users better thermals than with crappy generic paste.

I mean, people don't realize that what Intel is doing is essentially causing you to effectively use 2 layers of thermal compound. The more of this crap you stack, the worse things are. Back in the day of 25W and 60W top end CPU's it didn't even matter. But now with 6+ cores and really high clocks, every little matters. Not to mention heatspreaders came later, in the beginning all CPU's were "delided" from factory. They all had direct contact with the cooler.


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## P4-630 (Oct 7, 2017)

Where are the ones with _golden_ heatspreaders? 
I may have to wait a liitle longer then....


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## Vayra86 (Oct 7, 2017)

Yup this convinces me not to take Der8auer seriously anymore. He is marketing and commercializing his own blog and activities, this has zero to do with running a good business. Its taking advantage of gullible fools.

Basically by launching this, you can't trust him anymore; anything he says about delidding now will be to further his own product. This was already the case; but this shop is proof.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Oct 7, 2017)

why "derbauer".... after his publicity stunt on the Core i9 + high VRM temps that got debunked, I doubt ppl will spend 700 Euros for a binned chip with his name on it... Rather let RNGezus decide my silicon luck.


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## R0H1T (Oct 7, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> Yup this convinces me not to take Der8auer seriously anymore. He is marketing and commercializing his own blog and activities, this has zero to do with running a good business. Its taking advantage of gullible fools.
> 
> Basically by launching this, you can't trust him anymore; anything he says about delidding now will be to further his own product. This was already the case; but this shop is proof.


Maybe I'm wrong, or perhaps not, but what does *Der8auer* being an employee has anything to do with this? Don't hardware vendors, mobo makers et al employ  enthusiasts to show case their products, sure he might be promoting Caseking but being an employee that's like an unwritten rule.


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## Vayra86 (Oct 7, 2017)

R0H1T said:


> Maybe I'm wrong, or perhaps not, but what does *Der8auer* being an employee has anything to do with this? Don't hardware vendors, mobo makers et al employ  enthusiasts to show case their products, sure he might be promoting Caseking but being an employee that's like an unwritten rule.



He's seen as the delidding expert and people watch his stuff like its gospel. Then they come on this forum and on every Intel CPU release we get five pages of complaints about TIM, even though 95% of those people are way too scared to delid anyway or concludes its another shit CPU because it runs at 5 Ghz on a high temperature (within spec limits). The guy feeds a hype to sell the tools to get in on it. Meanwhile, all you get is 100-200 mhz in clocks, for twice the price of the CPU.

The whole business model oozes taking advantage of people's stupidity. Let's not forget - not only do you overspend on a mainstream CPU for performance you'll probably never really use or need, but you also void your warranty along the way.

99,9% silver heatspreader... lmao. This is entering territory of audiophile audio cables crafted by elves in moonlight.

There is a distinct difference between an enthusiast that does his own delid and his own OC and likes to share his skills and knowledge, to someone who markets it as a product. The first guy is someone I can admire and learn from, the second is simply untrustworthy and leaves a foul taste in my mouth. I don't know, it just happens.

Meanwhile, everyone is all focused on the high temps on a 5.1 Ghz 8700k... but have you seen the i5??? It runs 15 C cooler at 5.2... Pretty impressive.


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## brian111 (Oct 7, 2017)

R0H1T said:


> Maybe I'm wrong, or perhaps not, but what does *Der8auer* being an employee has anything to do with this? Don't hardware vendors, mobo makers et al employ  enthusiasts to show case their products, sure he might be promoting Caseking but being an employee that's like an unwritten rule.



Careful mister!  Reasonable counters to snap judgements can confuse the internets.


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## RejZoR (Oct 7, 2017)

Der8auer is not just "deliding" expert. He's well known in the hardcore overclocking scene. He's even featured in ASUS RealBench multitasking video.


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## noel_fs (Oct 7, 2017)

i'd like the idea of only 99.99 silver paste without being binned


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 7, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> Yup this convinces me not to take Der8auer seriously anymore. He is marketing and commercializing his own blog and activities, this has zero to do with running a good business. Its taking advantage of gullible fools.
> 
> Basically by launching this, you can't trust him anymore; anything he says about delidding now will be to further his own product. This was already the case; but this shop is proof.


I personally don't mind him comercializing his skills but i absolutely would have no part in buying such price exagerated tat, id rather spend the extra money on cooling.
And any one i heard buying one would be emediately binned in the idiot bin buy me personally, i can see some buying one, I've a mate whos probably daft enough, id love him to buy one , that would be a good laugh.
And personally im loving that 5ghz is now a thing for intel ,and required by intel to push their chips that far to compete ,i still remember how shit 5ghz was when intel couldn't do it , now its cool again.


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## efikkan (Oct 7, 2017)

So they are selling binned i7-8700K for a premium, and where do they find all these binned CPUs? Does anyone seriously think that they buy hundreds of CPUs just to pick a few to sell at a premium? What do they do with the 95% of the chips that don't meet this criteria?

Something tells me that these are not really binned at all.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 7, 2017)

efikkan said:


> So they are selling binned i7-8700K for a premium, and where do they find all these binned CPUs? Does anyone seriously think that they buy hundreds of CPUs just to pick a few to sell at a premium? What do they do with the 95% of the chips that don't meet this criteria?
> 
> Something tells me that these are not really binned at all.


Good point and truly the kicker for me, they can't open consumer boxes then sell as new so their best avenue is their non price uplifted general pcs.
I would not buy a 8700k general system off them now as it's those chips that are most likely the shit binned chips, they Did have to test them but they then garunteed their non der8haur rated systems have definitely got shit chips in , how else could they do it.


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## Vya Domus (Oct 7, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> The whole business model oozes taking advantage of people's stupidity. Let's not forget - not only do you overspend on a mainstream CPU for performance you'll probably never really use or need, but you also void your warranty along the way.



Stupidity or not , people will buy these. There aren't many willing to spend such a high amount of cash on this but enough to empty their stock.




Vayra86 said:


> Meanwhile, everyone is all focused on the high temps on a 5.1 Ghz 8700k... but have you seen the i5??? It runs 15 C cooler at 5.2... Pretty impressive.



I don't find that impressive at all , of course the i5 runs cooler , it doesn't have HT. HT simply assures a higher level of utilization of the execution resources the CPU has. No HT = less utilization = less heat even though technically both CPUs have the same raw power.


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## jabbadap (Oct 7, 2017)

Durvelle27 said:


> Doesn’t seem worth it to me
> 
> I rather take my chances for half the cost



Well those high cost binned ones might be hard to sell. But do note you get 2 years warranty with these, compared to null when you are de-lidding processor by yourself.


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## Vayra86 (Oct 7, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> Stupidity or not , people will buy these. There aren't many willing to spend such a high amount of cash on this but enough to empty their stock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, the impressive part, and that is to me because I want a gaming PC that is no-hassle 24/7: 5 Ghz without delid on air is possible. The 7700k did not offer this, and loses out on 2 physical cores too. What I'm seeing so far is 85 C peak temp on long sustained load, which is quite impressive (and that's 5.1 even). Going beyond 5.0 really needs a big vCore jump.

https://hardforum.com/threads/intel...ock-at-5-2ghz-with-3600mhz-ram.1945332/page-2


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## Durvelle27 (Oct 7, 2017)

jabbadap said:


> Well those high cost binned ones might be hard to sell. But do note you get 2 years warranty with these, compared to null when you are de-lidding processor by yourself.


2 year warranty means jack sht for a $300 Premium. Hell I could just buy a 2nd chip


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## Vya Domus (Oct 7, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> Well, the impressive part, and that is to me because I want a gaming PC that is no-hassle 24/7: 5 Ghz without delid on air is possible. The 7700k did not offer this, and loses out on 2 physical cores too. What I'm seeing so far is 85 C peak temp on long sustained load, which is quite impressive (and that's 5.1 even). Going beyond 5.0 really needs a big vCore jump.
> 
> https://hardforum.com/threads/intel...ock-at-5-2ghz-with-3600mhz-ram.1945332/page-2



But not all will hit that clock , it will be luck of the draw and still not quite hassle-free. I mean even the sample TPU got only reached 4.9.


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## StrayKAT (Oct 7, 2017)

It's sad that this is even a thing. It's like Intel wants to look inferior.. and intentionally loses the "monopoly" the EU accuses them of


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## _Flare (Oct 7, 2017)

Caseking.de gives 12 Month of warranty with the delidded Chips.
Der8auer doesn´t go full youtube-promo
He needs a "normal" job for some reasons in germany
Yes it´s a symbiosis for him and caseking.de

some mobo-makers did indeed greaten the surface of the heatsinks
but if you do not delid the big dies you will run into the cpu-internal temp-trap


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## jabbadap (Oct 7, 2017)

Durvelle27 said:


> 2 year warranty means jack sht for a $300 Premium. Hell I could just buy a 2nd chip



Yeah true, and i did say high binned one will be hard to sell. But those normal de-lidded quaranteed* 4.8, 4.9GHz ones are just 30-60€ price premium over the stock ones, which I see being quite reasonable priced.

* Quaranteed all core clock with maximum of 1.4V core voltage.


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## Vayra86 (Oct 7, 2017)

jabbadap said:


> Yeah true, and i did say high binned one will be hard to sell. But those normal de-lidded quaranteed* 4.8, 4.9GHz ones are just 30-60€ price premium over the stock ones, which I see being quite reasonable priced.
> 
> * Quaranteed all core clock with maximum of 1.4V core voltage.



I wouldn't call that a good binned chip, 1.4 for 4.8 or 4.9...


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## bogami (Oct 7, 2017)

Somebody found a market niche for foolish rewinding. More than double the price for an unnecessary piece of silver. That it would be better to give a specially designed liquid cooling block as a replacement for an existing thermal distributor.
Simply remove the exsisting ones hit distributor, and add good liquid metal thermal grease on die. Then, carefully and accurately mount the liquide thermal block, I suggest spacers, remove the processor connector into the bay. The processor will not flicker because it keeps it in place with the block. and you did not pay anything more than a good thermal paste. With all of them, even without problem, you achieve better results than with the added, silver-space element.!


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## jabbadap (Oct 7, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> I wouldn't call that a good binned chip, 1.4 for 4.8 or 4.9...



Well yeah somewhere those bad bins had to go too. Still they are usable cpus, which can OC from stock 4.3GHz all-core clock speeds with warranty intact and lower stock speed temps.

Edit: they are actually selling delidded i5 8600ks too.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Oct 7, 2017)

in another news, someone other than "durr-bau-er" clocked the 8700K to 7.41GHz on all cores with LN2, beating his record & nabbing a new world record.


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## Raevenlord (Oct 7, 2017)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> in another news, someone other than "durr-bau-er" clocked the 8700K to 7.41GHz on all cores with LN2, beating his record & nabbing a new world record.



Aye.

https://www.techpowerup.com/237613/...-to-7-45-ghz-under-ln2-100-frequency-increase


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## Basard (Oct 7, 2017)

Well, lots of people buy Ferraris.... Not because they are stupid, but because they are rich.


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## yotano211 (Oct 7, 2017)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> why "derbauer".... after his publicity stunt on the Core i9 + high VRM temps that got debunked, I doubt ppl will spend 700 Euros for a binned chip with his name on it... Rather let RNGezus decide my silicon luck.


What did he do with the i9 and high temps, I am just interesting in what he did.


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## Tomgang (Oct 7, 2017)

I think in that price range, i would better try my luck on a I7 7900K that is not binned. Even if fail, i would still get better multicore performance any way.

But for now i stick to my trusty I7 980X.


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## damric (Oct 7, 2017)

He's making a little money doing what he loves, so people are going to pour hate on him out of jealousy. Binning, delidding, and repasting takes time, and those custom lids are not cheap. He's a nice guy, always answering forum posts on hwbot and ocn. He's a hardware enthusiast, just like us, but he really gives back to the community. All of his tutorials on overclocking.guide didn't write themselves, and they are free to view. That said, I wouldn't buy this. I delid and overclock my own stuff because it's fun.


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## riffraffy (Oct 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Der8auer is not just "deliding" expert. He's well known in the hardcore overclocking scene. He's even featured in ASUS RealBench multitasking video.


A deliding expert in the overclocking scene ! What is he thinking ?


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## Sasqui (Oct 7, 2017)

Pure marketing genius!


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## Octopuss (Oct 7, 2017)

The amount of "patheticism" in this thread makes me speechless.
Someone finds a way to turn something he knows a lot about into business, and bunch of random forum heroes immediatelly start mocking him, insulting him, and babbling other stupid crap.
What are you, 14 years old?


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## RejZoR (Oct 7, 2017)

Octopuss said:


> The amount of "patheticism" in this thread makes me speechless.
> Someone finds a way to turn something he knows a lot about into business, and bunch of random forum heroes immediatelly start mocking him, insulting him, and babbling other stupid crap.
> What are you, 14 years old?



At least here are the real benefits. Anyone remembers Fatal1ty everything? Sure, the guy was good professional gamer, but the amount of stuff with his label was getting kinda ridiculous. But I'm happy that he made bucks from it. Coz why the hell not. Same here. Besides, Caseking is known to create aftermarket bundles. They've been offering bunch of pre-designed stuff at a premium (like custom water cooled GTX 1080's series).

Although, just checking, it's double the price. In this case, it's cheaper to just buy one, check it and if clocks badly, sell it at a tiny loss. Repeat until you find a good one. You'll waste less money with loses for selling used one with warranty than buying a verified one for double the price from get go. Unless you can't be bothered and you don't care about price.


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## Octopuss (Oct 7, 2017)

If someone wants to pay that amount of money, that's his problem. But spewing shit onto someone just because he offers something some people are willing to buy, that's just retarded.


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## natr0n (Oct 7, 2017)

Der8auer making major bank.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 7, 2017)

I think everyone is missing a very simple chemistry point here. 99.9% silver oxidizes moderately swiftly when exposed to air, faster when heat is applied. So even if there's just a small amount of silver-oxide on the surface, it acts as a thermal insulator, effectively negating the supposed benefit of using silver in the first place. And there are better, less expensive, thermal conductors that could be used. This is not only an endeavor of morons, for elitist morons, but will guarantee damage to the cpu in the long run. 
And before anyone says it, any coating that would prevent oxidation will also create a thermal insulation layer, again negating the desired effect. This only way this would work is to alloy silver with a metal that prevents oxidation. The problem with that possibility is that there are only a few metals that can be alloyed in such a way while preserving the desired thermal conductivity, and all of them are very expensive and the process to create a stable alloy is also expensive. This is a fools effort all the way around. Of course, considering the market sector this product is aimed at, it's par for the course.


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## MrGenius (Oct 7, 2017)

Sure...K|NGP|N does it...it's fine. der8auer does it...it's shameless self-promotion bordering on false advertisement.

Silicon Lottery.com does it...it's fine. CaseKing.de does it...it's somehow controversial.

Double standard much?




P4-630 said:


> Where are the ones with _golden_ heatspreaders?
> I may have to wait a liitle longer then....


That would actually be worse than the copper heatspreader it came with.


Vayra86 said:


> 99,9% silver heatspreader... lmao. This is entering territory of audiophile audio cables crafted by elves in moonlight.


Basically. Since the thermal conductivity of silver is not significantly higher than copper. I doubt it would make more than 1-2°C difference(if that).


lexluthermiester said:


> I think everyone is missing a very simple chemistry point here. 99.9% silver oxidizes moderately swiftly when exposed to air, faster when heat is applied. Bla bla bla bla....


Point not missed on me. Though it's totally irrelevant. Why? Because copper does the same thing. And it's widely used for such purposes(not nickel plated in heat sinks, or nickel plating removed from IHS by lapping). And...you said it yourself...exposure to air it what causes it. There is no exposure to air when covered in TIM. So oxidation is not going to happen. And you're blowing the effects of oxidation way out of proportion anyway. It's a microscopic layer that has no real/significant impact on thermal conductivity. That's laughable.


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## P4-630 (Oct 7, 2017)

MrGenius said:


> That would actually be worse than the copper heatspreader it came with.



But I like bling!!!
Once it's outdated I can wear it on a chain!!


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## Kissamies (Oct 7, 2017)

Well, some people pay premium for Titans instead of the fastest Ti cards. I don't think that this is that "take the money from the stupid people" kind of a thing.


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## thesmokingman (Oct 7, 2017)

MrGenius said:


> Sure...K|NGP|N does it...it's fine. der8auer does it...it's shameless self-promotion bordering on false advertisement.
> 
> Silicon Lottery.com does it...it's fine. CaseKing.de does it...it's somehow controversial.
> 
> Double standard much?



It was/is pretty stupid what SL does, so I don't see the double standard. This service is for the meek, those who can't or won't mod themselves. And in the instance of the previous 7700K, they all did 5ghz w/o much effort. And the binned Threadrippers, another example of all chips hitting 4ghz so ppl who did ante up for the binning were literally just throwing money away. And in the case of the Threadrippers, that was/is really a kicker since they are already highly binned from AMD to begin with being the top 5% of all silicon. lol.


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## R-T-B (Oct 7, 2017)

MrGenius said:


> There is no exposure to air when covered in TIM. So oxidation is not going to happen. And you're blowing the effects of oxidation way out of proportion anyway. It's a microscopic layer that has no real/significant impact on thermal conductivity. That's laughable.



You were right on your whole post until this, unfortunately I need to stop you there man.

It's solid silver.  TIM isn't on every square inch, so oxidation is going to happen.  Also silver tarnishes very quickly, much faster and worse than copper.



thesmokingman said:


> It was/is pretty stupid what SL does, so I don't see the double standard. This service is for the meek, those who can't or won't mod themselves. And in the instance of the previous 7700K, they all did 5ghz w/o much effort. And the binned Threadrippers, another example of all chips hitting 4ghz so ppl who did ante up for the binning were literally just throwing money away. And in the case of the Threadrippers, that was/is really a kicker since they are already highly binned from AMD to begin with being the top 5% of all silicon. lol.



Unless you know, people just don't want to mess around and want a fast chip quick.

It's great you think people who buy there are stupid.  As a customer in the past, I will be sure and file that under "don't care."


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## thesmokingman (Oct 7, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> You were right on your whole post until this, unfortunately I need to stop you there man.
> 
> It's solid silver.  TIM isn't on every square inch, so oxidation is going to happen.  Also silver tarnishes very quickly, much faster and worse than copper.



But its silver and its so blingy man!


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## R-T-B (Oct 7, 2017)

thesmokingman said:


> But its silver and its so blingy man!



It really is largely a gimick, but to be completely fair, it might ACTUALLY slightly improve thermals if you never remove the chip and ensure a good thermal pathway with the paste.

But we all know that is not why it is being bought...


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## Mirkoskji (Oct 7, 2017)

Thermal conductivity of copper is 400 w*m k versus silver's 430. I think it's not Worth the change. Silver can be used in more useful applications


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## Dave65 (Oct 7, 2017)

Kinda reminds me of ASROCK and the guy called Fatal1ty, no don't want someones face on my hardware!


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## Parn (Oct 7, 2017)

WTF?

Why do ppls overclock their CPUs? That's because they would like to get every extra ounce of performance out of their CPUs without paying the premium. 

IMHO, what this German retailer does defeats the purpose of OC.


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## Assimilator (Oct 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Main question her is, why doesn't Intel use top of the line thermal compound and charge I don't know, 15€ more? Surely such tiny premium would still give them massive profit margin on each CPU (where they use cheap generic crap and charge nothing extra for it) while giving users better thermals than with crappy generic paste.



Because the majority of CPUs sold - even the unlocked K SKUs - are never overclocked. In fact, a lot of people buy the K SKUs and use them on non-Z-series boards simply because they have higher speeds than the ordinary ones (e.g. i7-8700 = 3.2GHz base/4.6GHz boost, 8700K = 3.7/4.7). From Intel's viewpoint, they can either spend a bit more on adding a feature that the vast majority of their users will never need nor want... or they could charge a slightly lower price and move more units. Being a capitalist company that exists to make money, which option do you think they're gonna choose?

"So why does Ryzen use solder then?" I can't say for certain, and there's no way to know since removing its IHS destroys the chip, but I'm pretty sure that solder is the only way that AMD could get acceptable thermals on Ryzen. A side effect is that a soldered IHS is good PR for AMD, something they desperately need after Bulldozer (a monkey that will be hanging on their back for many years to come).

I'm quite certain that if AMD could get away with using crap TIM, they would. We may even see it on the next iteration of Ryzen, assuming Samsung/GloFo can actually tweak their process to allow higher clocks than 4GHz.



RejZoR said:


> I mean, people don't realize that what Intel is doing is essentially causing you to effectively use 2 layers of thermal compound. The more of this crap you stack, the worse things are. Back in the day of 25W and 60W top end CPU's it didn't even matter. But now with 6+ cores and really high clocks, every little matters. Not to mention heatspreaders came later, in the beginning all CPU's were "delided" from factory. They all had direct contact with the cooler.



The reason "heat"spreaders were introduced was far more to do with preventing CPU dies being destroyed by the ever-larger and ever-more-tightly-pressing coolers that were being released, than due to heat dissipation concerns.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 7, 2017)

MrGenius said:


> Point not missed on me. Though it's totally irrelevant. Why? Because copper does the same thing. And it's widely used for such purposes(not nickel plated in heat sinks, or nickel plating removed from IHS by lapping). And...you said it yourself...exposure to air it what causes it. There is no exposure to air when covered in TIM. So oxidation is not going to happen. And you're blowing the effects of oxidation way out of proportion anyway. It's a microscopic layer that has no real/significant impact on thermal conductivity. That's laughable.


Before commenting, I wish to express no insult is intended.
The problem with your statement is that it reveals your misunderstanding of the material being discussed. Silver is very reactive with oxygen and it's oxides are oxygen permeable. This means that after silver oxidizes, oxygen will "soak" straight through the oxide layers and continue to react with the silver underneath. This is why silver tarnishes and continues to do so over time. And when heat is applied the reaction increases. Applying that knowledge to this topic of discussion, 99.9% pure silver begins to oxidize the moment it's created and will continue so long as oxygen is present in it's surroundings. In the case of a TIM, that will be applied only after silver oxide layering begins and unless you cover the entire surface with a TIM that is not oxygen permeable, the process of oxidation will continue through the surface of the IHS under the TIM itself. Within a year, thermal conductivity will fall below a level needed to prevent the die from heat damage. This is why silver is NOT used as a heatsink material, unless alloyed with other metals. This is research that has already been done. Research that the company involved has either ignored or was too incompetent to look up.


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## Rahmat Sofyan (Oct 7, 2017)

That is very "intelligent" . .

New world record I guess ☺ . .


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## dorsetknob (Oct 7, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> This is entering territory of audiophile audio cables crafted by elves in moonlight.



seriously they work   you can hear all the high notes the Fairy folk sing and the low subsonic troll grumbles   i Swear by them


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## GoldenX (Oct 7, 2017)

First World problems, textbook definition.


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## trog100 (Oct 7, 2017)

how all this really works.. team A and team B.. only two teams in the so called race.. one team has better technology more money or whatever.. the bottom line is one team has a faster product than the other team..

they pretend to race.. but in reality one team is just cruising not running any faster than it has to to stay in front.. the other team is really trying to catch up.. sometime it might appear to catch up or get close but the other cruising team will always have some performance in reserve.. we call this over clocking but it aint really.. its just using some of that reserve that the stronger team will always have..

one team might well use solder instead of cheaper tim.. but its only cos they have to.. 

its kind of sad really because the always weaker team never does get a just reward for it efforts.. but its the way life works.. 

trog


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## dj-electric (Oct 8, 2017)

What annoys me the most is that people think the 8700K is uncontrollably hot, witch is completely un-true.
Most users with a decent air cooler will get good results. Those who stay at normal 4.3Ghz all-core clocks can use 25$ coolers.

I'm running an 8700K right now at 4.9Ghz 1.284-1.306v on a rather simple watercooling loop. No TIM change, no de-lid


----------



## hat (Oct 8, 2017)

These are obviously for people who want the best of the best and are able to pay top dollar for it. Is it a good value? No way, not to me or even most people that visit this forum, but for those that have the money to burn... Sure, why not. You're paying a huge premium for the best of the best, and even if what you gain isn't worth the money you pay... Well, I guess that's up to the buyer to decide.


----------



## Totally (Oct 8, 2017)

blobster21 said:


> I'll just pretend i didn't read this. Anything with the derbrowner trademark can be safely ignored.



LOL! That's exactly what I did when I saw the silly logo.


----------



## ShurikN (Oct 8, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> seriously they work   you can hear all the high notes the Fairy folk sing and the low subsonic troll grumbles   i Swear by them


Quality cables do make a difference (although small),  but once you pass the 30 dollar mark, it's all snake oil.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 8, 2017)

ShurikN said:


> Quality cables do make a difference (although small),  but once you pass the 30 dollar mark, it's all snake oil.



Depends on whether the signal is analog or digital.

If digital, there is essentially no difference at all between cables that meet spec, cost be damned.


----------



## Totally (Oct 8, 2017)

hat said:


> These are obviously for people who want the best of the best and are able to pay top dollar for it. Is it a good value? No way, not to me or even most people that visit this forum, but for those that have the money to burn... Sure, why not. You're paying a huge premium for the best of the best, and even if what you gain isn't worth the money you pay... Well, I guess that's up to the buyer to decide.



Rationally speaking how many chips aren't hitting 5.0 ghz on air? Even then if they aren't that far off. 100-200 Mhz beyond that doesn't offer anything tangible other than bragging rights which kind of tarnishes that aspect since the chip was bought for it's bin.


----------



## RejZoR (Oct 8, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> Before commenting, I wish to express no insult is intended.
> The problem with your statement is that it reveals your misunderstanding of the material being discussed. Silver is very reactive with oxygen and it's oxides are oxygen permeable. This means that after silver oxidizes, oxygen will "soak" straight through the oxide layers and continue to react with the silver underneath. This is why silver tarnishes and continues to do so over time. And when heat is applied the reaction increases. Applying that knowledge to this topic of discussion, 99.9% pure silver begins to oxidize the moment it's created and will continue so long as oxygen is present in it's surroundings. In the case of a TIM, that will be applied only after silver oxide layering begins and unless you cover the entire surface with a TIM that is not oxygen permeable, the process of oxidation will continue through the surface of the IHS under the TIM itself. Within a year, thermal conductivity will fall below a level needed to prevent the die from heat damage. This is why silver is NOT used as a heatsink material, unless alloyed with other metals. This is research that has already been done. Research that the company involved has either ignored or was too incompetent to look up.



It's why contacts are gold platted, because gold doesn't exidize like silver


----------



## yotano211 (Oct 8, 2017)

These processors will be bought by people who like to chase benchmark scores. I know 1 or 2 people who like to chase the top benchmark scores and score in the top 100 in the world or something like that. I dont know if these guys go into stores to buy their own processors or just buy them from places like this.


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## GoldenX (Oct 8, 2017)

yotano211 said:


> These processors will be bought by people who like to chase benchmark scores. I know 1 or 2 people who like to chase the top benchmark scores and score in the top 100 in the world or something like that. I dont know if these guys go into stores to buy their own processors or just buy them from places like this.



Good results on air/water don't guarantee good results on LN2.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 8, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> It's why contacts are gold platted, because gold doesn't oxidize like silver


Exactly.


----------



## Vayra86 (Oct 8, 2017)

Dj-ElectriC said:


> What annoys me the most is that people think the 8700K is uncontrollably hot, witch is completely un-true.
> Most users with a decent air cooler will get good results. Those who stay at normal 4.3Ghz all-core clocks can use 25$ coolers.
> 
> I'm running an 8700K right now at 4.9Ghz 1.284-1.306v on a rather simple watercooling loop. No TIM change, no de-lid



And this is the nail on the head. There is a tangible shift in people's minds as to what is a good temperature or safe temperature for a CPU to run at. Somehow, people now are convinced that because a delid shaves off 20 C, you NEED to run at 20-30C below throttle points or its not cool enough. It makes no sense, it has no bearing on the end performance, and it does not help the longevity of the CPU to a degree that one would ever notice.

Its a slippery slope of misinformed customers making misinformed decisions. Already, even without the delid stories, we have forum topics left and right asking if 80 C is 'a safe temp' for whatever component... even though millions upon millions of components all over the world run that temp for years. And again: I have respect for people delidding their own CPUs as an enthusiast. But I have zero of that for people who simply buy the enthusiast dream; that reminds me a lot of people who EBAY an MMO account so they can go straight into end game and 'own everyone'. Its really quite twisted, like cheating in multiplayer environments.

Yes, this is the power of marketing, advertising, and of connecting your free blogs and guides to a store model with your own branded products. And that is why I get the foul taste. I really could care less about someone making money, but I can only have respect for a business model that is sound, and has integrity. This one has none.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Oct 8, 2017)

if temps is everyone's concern, try getting a 360mm, 420mm or a massive 480mm rad to cool down your 8700K, without de-lidding it. Just a generous amount of Kryonaut thermal paste & be done with it. U won't get any hotter than 80C & hit the magical 5GHz stable.


----------



## trog100 (Oct 8, 2017)

i think everyone needs to admit that the "magical" 5ghz is just that.. symbolism.. f-ck all else.. 

trog


----------



## ZoneDymo (Oct 8, 2017)

StrayKAT said:


> It's sad that this is even a thing. It's like Intel wants to look inferior.. and intentionally loses the "monopoly" the EU accuses them of



pretty sure the EU accuses them of shady behind the curtain deals so vendors push Intel products instead of AMD


----------



## Imsochobo (Oct 8, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> seriously they work   you can hear all the high notes the Fairy folk sing and the low subsonic troll grumbles   i Swear by them



I've spent thousands on thousands on good sound system, there is absolutely no difference that can be found.
Not on a scope, not to the sound registered.

If signal cables are analog they can make a difference, if it's digital (HDMI, DP etc) no change.
Speaker cables - Unless you have kw engines that have powercables next to the speaker cables : no difference.

But delid is completely different as there is a major noticeable change.


----------



## der8auer (Oct 8, 2017)

damric said:


> He's making a little money doing what he loves, so people are going to pour hate on him out of jealousy. Binning, delidding, and repasting takes time, and those custom lids are not cheap. He's a nice guy, always answering forum posts on hwbot and ocn. He's a hardware enthusiast, just like us, but he really gives back to the community. All of his tutorials on overclocking.guide didn't write themselves, and they are free to view. That said, I wouldn't buy this. I delid and overclock my own stuff because it's fun.



This ^^^^^^ haha

Love all the mature comments tho    Wonder what would happen if I'd start to insult random people like you guys do it on the forums here....





MrGenius said:


> Sure...K|NGP|N does it...it's fine. der8auer does it...it's shameless self-promotion bordering on false advertisement.
> 
> Silicon Lottery.com does it...it's fine. CaseKing.de does it...it's somehow controversial.
> 
> Double standard much?



This, too  Basically we do it because customers ask for it and of course any project like this is great for marketing (as you can see with your comments  )




Tsukiyomi91 said:


> why "derbauer".... after his publicity stunt on the Core i9 + high VRM temps that got debunked, I doubt ppl will spend 700 Euros for a binned chip with his name on it... Rather let RNGezus decide my silicon luck.



debunked? Not sure if srs. Did you watch stuff as the OC3D update video where he confirmed it?
Ever wondered why all X399 Boards have different heatsinks now than compared to computex launch?
Why does ASUS update the Apex heatsink? Why is there a new X299 Strix with updated heatsink? Why does ASRock OC Formula suddenly have a 2nd heatsink connected with heatpipe?


----------



## dorsetknob (Oct 8, 2017)

Sorry mate Your in The Public Eye (Smirk even if Some people "have never Heard of You"  Oh the Children today)

You have to Expect to Be Trolled Ect By The ignorant and misinformed it Goes with Fame/infamy
some of us Respect you and Your Achievement's

Glad you Visited to put your Point of View   You must Visit More Often


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## Readlight (Oct 8, 2017)

Who cares no problem running Pentium D and Athlon 5000+ on Windows 7 i5 2400 is like premium to us.


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## der8auer (Oct 8, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Sorry mate Your in The Public Eye (Smirk even if Some people "have never Heard of You"  Oh the Children today)
> 
> You have to Expect to Be Trolled Ect By The ignorant and misinformed it Goes with Fame/infamy
> some of us Respect you and Your Achievement's
> ...



Thanks mate haha

I learned over the years that the internet is not a nice place 

Wish I had more time to check and reply on all forums tho. There is just too many of them =)


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## claes (Oct 8, 2017)

der8auer said:


> Thanks mate haha
> 
> I learned over the years that the internet is not a nice place
> 
> Wish I had more time to check and reply on all forums tho. There is just too many of them =)


Could you explain the choice for a silver IHS? Case-king.de is suggesting 8-12* drops as compared to an untapped, stock IHS - is this a liberal or conservative estimate?

Some users are worried about oxidization - is this something you guys evaluated when choosing silver?

No trolling here - if the results are conservative and oxidization isn't an issue then this is a really novel advancement to delidding! Any chance we can buy untapped silver IHS if we're to delid ourselves?


----------



## jabbadap (Oct 8, 2017)

Well Mr @der8auer I know i3-8350k is kind of low end part for you, but have you de-lidded one? Is it really a disabled six core part or are intel just using old kaby lake cores on the new package?


----------



## jihadjoe (Oct 9, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Good point and truly the kicker for me, they can't open consumer boxes then sell as new so their best avenue is their non price uplifted general pcs.
> I would not buy a 8700k general system off them now as it's those chips that are most likely the shit binned chips, they Did have to test them but they then garunteed their non der8haur rated systems have definitely got shit chips in , how else could they do it.


Caseking sells tray versions of the 8700k which come with no retail packaging at all. I expect they're binning from those. The ones that OC well get the premium+delid treatment, the rest go back in the pile.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 9, 2017)

jihadjoe said:


> Caseking sells tray versions of the 8700k which come with no retail packaging at all. I expect they're binning from those. The ones that OC well get the premium+delid treatment, the rest go back in the pile.


Point is, if someone at a shop is picking out the best ones , and therein testing the one i might buy to make sure i got a shit one and that they definitely get more for the silicon gold ,then im not buying that product off them ,and due to this practice I would buy a packaged box with a bit of mystery and luck involved in the purchase, and less money.
And from what pile do they fill their oem pcs without der8haur branding?.


----------



## INSTG8R (Oct 9, 2017)

While! I think this is unnecessary not sure why Der8auer is getting any flack. Nobody jumps on 8pack and his overpriced OCUK prebuilts?


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## Kanan (Oct 9, 2017)

Imo this is worth it for people that have the money and want the very best without hassle. The silver IHS and liquid metal instead of intels crappy TIM is worth it for people that want the best performance without hassle. I don't quite get why people are reacting negatively to this:

a) the chip is delidded for you, you don't have to do it yourself, on top you get a warranty replacement that you otherwise simply wouldn't have

b) you get a guaranteed good chip

c) you get a better heatspreader.

This has some worth. Seems some people are unable to understand this and instead go on to hate on der8auer because he does things they can not - earn money with the things he loves.


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## R-T-B (Oct 9, 2017)

der8auer said:


> Love all the mature comments tho    Wonder what would happen if I'd start to insult random people like you guys do it on the forums here....



Don't take everything you read here seriously man.  We're sort of a free for all in the comments section...  well almost anyways. 



> debunked? Not sure if srs. Did you watch stuff as the OC3D update video where he confirmed it?



I'm the newsposter who covered your VRM issue BTW, no longer work here atm but did cover it.  It is decidedly not "debunked" despite how people may like to spin it.  What would be more correct to say is it may not matter to the casual user, but that is NOT debunking it.




> Ever wondered why all X399 Boards have different heatsinks now than compared to computex launch?
> Why does ASUS update the Apex heatsink? Why is there a new X299 Strix with updated heatsink? Why does ASRock OC Formula suddenly have a 2nd heatsink connected with heatpipe?



Despite our free for all nature, we regulars here at TPU appreciate a man who can argue his point too.  And I agree with you there that the heatsinks were an issue, and the proof is in the replacements, so to speak.

Likewise, I hope you won't take my criticism of your product with silver as being an awful heatsink material as anything other than that:  Constructive criticism.  It's not like silver is the only option you offer anyways. 

Thanks for stopping in. 



INSTG8R said:


> While! I think this is unnecessary not sure why Der8auer is getting any flack. Nobody jumps on 8pack and his overpriced OCUK prebuilts?



Lol everyone does.


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## jigar2speed (Oct 9, 2017)

You should not wrong a guy for guaranteeing a product to work at specific frequency with a better heatspreader, whats wrong in that ?


----------



## FYFI13 (Oct 9, 2017)

Der8auer is doing what everyone would do - using opportunity to make some cash. My only concern is those CPUs that did not clock well. They're going back into boxes and being sold as new? If that's the case then i might stay away from CaseKing for now.


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## EarthDog (Oct 9, 2017)

Why would you believe they are being sold as new?


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## [XC] Oj101 (Oct 9, 2017)

der8auer said:


> This ^^^^^^ haha
> 
> Love all the mature comments tho    Wonder what would happen if I'd start to insult random people like you guys do it on the forums here....
> 
> ...



I really don't see why you need to defend yourself here. You found a niche in the market, so why the hell not.


----------



## mouacyk (Oct 9, 2017)

der8auer said:


> This ^^^^^^ haha
> 
> Love all the mature comments tho    Wonder what would happen if I'd start to insult random people like you guys do it on the forums here....
> 
> ...


I'm actually interested in some empirical evidence to justify the alternative silver heat sink.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 9, 2017)

mouacyk said:


> I'm actually interested in some empirical evidence to justify the alternative silver heat sink.


I would be interested in hearing his explanation of what happens to bin these chips and just as importantly where the sub grade chips end up.
Playing fair after a think they could be grading their process rather than the chips.
For example and explanation , they may not necessarily bin the best chips out of a thousand (this is hypothetical remember that), instead relying on their process (delid tim and Hs) to garauntee it will hit (their )spec , leaving no bad(persay) chips to sell n channel.
It would be nice to know how they are doing this.
I am fine with doing this and its premium from a consumer point of view, i would not buy one but i get why some would, but it's the question of how they bin that concerns me enough that id only buy packaged processors off caseking if i was buying, which to be fair im not.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 9, 2017)

mouacyk said:


> I'm actually interested in some empirical evidence to justify the alternative silver heat sink.


+1

Considering the difference between coppe and silver as far as heat passing through it isn't much... you wonder if the expense is actually justified.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Oct 9, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I would be interested in hearing his explanation of what happens to bin these chips and just as importantly where the sub grade chips end up.
> Playing fair after a think they could be grading their process rather than the chips.
> For example and explanation , they may not necessarily bin the best chips out of a thousand (this is hypothetical remember that), instead relying on their process (delid tim and Hs) to garauntee it will hit (their )spec , leaving no bad(persay) chips to sell n channel.
> It would be nice to know how they are doing this.
> I am fine with doing this and its premium from a consumer point of view, i would not buy one but i get why some would, but it's the question of how they bin that concerns me enough that id only buy packaged processors off caseking if i was buying, which to be fair im not.


If I understand @der8auer and the OP correctly, they test the chips First, and determine what they will reach comfortably.

THEN, they delid and repaste only those which meet the criteria.  The others don't get delidded, since it is for the sake of cooling he is doing it after.

Regardless, they can't be new CPU anymore, but I'm sure he would not sell them as such.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 9, 2017)

rtwjunkie said:


> If I understand @der8auer and the OP correctly, they test the chips First, and determine what they will reach comfortably.
> 
> THEN, they delid and repaste only those which meet the criteria.  The others don't get delidded, since it is for the sake of cooling he is doing it after.
> 
> Regardless, they can't be new CPU anymore, but I'm sure he would not sell them as such.


If that were the case then where are these pre tested(not upto it) marked down chips listed???.

I know and except caseking are not alone in selling pre spec'd chips but i have never , ever seen a shop listed cpu discounted due to this.

And I am so sure they do as im saying ie dump them in prebuilts etc that like i said before ,I personally would only buy a packaged chip now not tray.


----------



## Franzen4Real (Oct 9, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> 99,9% silver heatspreader... lmao. This is entering territory of audiophile audio cables crafted by elves in moonlight.



I have a set of those!! They completely eliminated this nagging 37th order harmonic resonance. The midrange is now as clear and smooth as clarified butter, and the treble is MUCH more open and airy in the 60-80kHz range.

sorry for not adding to the discussion but the elf cables was my favorite line in the entire thread, and I refuse to give a 99.9% silver heat spreader any amount serious thought... Maybe they can also get Fatal1ty's logo on a clearance sale and add a red light edition for those that want to ensure they are getting completely screwed.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> Point is, if someone at a shop is picking out the best ones , and therein testing the one i might buy to make sure i got a shit one and that they definitely get more for the silicon gold ,then im not buying that product off them ,and due to this practice I would buy a packaged box with a bit of mystery and luck involved in the purchase, and less money.



exactly


----------



## claes (Oct 9, 2017)

You all realize that -k and -x processors are already binned, right?

Just like every other processor in Intel and AMD's lines?

If you pick a retail CPU up you are playing the silicon lottery. Period.

Chips that aren't selected by Silicon Lottery and Case-kings are exactly like the retail version, just unlikely to be the one in some number lottery ticket there binned chips are...

Seriously, we're talking 200-300mhz (at least with Intel )


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 9, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I know and except caseking are not alone in selling pre spec'd chips but i have never , ever seen a shop listed cpu discounted due to this.



You haven't looked far then.  Check the Silicon Lottery web store for examples.


----------



## jihadjoe (Oct 10, 2017)

claes said:


> You all realize that -k and -x processors are already binned, right?



That doesn't mean you can't bin them again. Intel/AMD will do coarse binning and find chips that do 4.7GHz/4.1GHz to sell as 8700k/1800x, but companies like caseking and siliconlottery will sift through those again to find the ones that do 5.0/4.2.


----------



## trparky (Oct 10, 2017)

Oh, 300 MHz more you say!!! I just have to find my wallet right now! /sarcasm

I would be quite damn happy with the chip at the stock speeds since hell, even at stock speeds the Core i7 8700K would be faster than my current Ivy Bridge Core i5 3570K @ 4.4 GHz. I can't get my chip to clock higher.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 10, 2017)

jihadjoe said:


> That doesn't mean you can't bin them again. Intel/AMD will do coarse binning and find chips that do 4.7GHz/4.1GHz to sell as 8700k/1800x, but companies like caseking and siliconlottery will sift through those again to find the ones that do 5.0/4.2.


Absolutely correct. And there's nothing wrong with this as it takes the guess work out of the equation for the consumers.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 10, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> You haven't looked far then.  Check the Silicon Lottery web store for examples.


Show me , because I just looked and all i saw we're delided overclocked and slightly to more marked up , so they're essentially just overclocking everything and charging you for what they find out, that's not a pre tested found wanting ,marked down example.


----------



## R-T-B (Oct 10, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Show me , because I just looked and all i saw we're delided overclocked and slightly to more marked up , so they're essentially just overclocking everything and charging you for what they find out, that's not a pre tested found wanting ,marked down example.



*sighs*

Seriously dude, this took me like 5 seconds:

https://siliconlottery.com/collections/all/products/1950x38g

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113447&cm_re=1950X-_-19-113-447-_-Product

And I'm sure there are larger discounted ones than that.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 10, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> *sighs*
> 
> Seriously dude, this took me like 5 seconds:
> 
> ...


Fair enough but I wouldn't buy into that.


----------



## Kanan (Oct 10, 2017)

trparky said:


> I would be quite damn happy with the chip at the stock speeds since hell, even at stock speeds the Core i7 8700K would be faster than my current Ivy Bridge Core i5 3570K @ 4.4 GHz. I can't get my chip to clock higher.


Maybe you should delidd your CPU since it's not soldered. I think higher clocks are possible after delidding.


----------



## claes (Oct 10, 2017)

jihadjoe said:


> That doesn't mean you can't bin them again. Intel/AMD will do coarse binning and find chips that do 4.7GHz/4.1GHz to sell as 8700k/1800x, but companies like caseking and siliconlottery will sift through those again to find the ones that do 5.0/4.2.





lexluthermiester said:


> Absolutely correct. And there's nothing wrong with this as it takes the guess work out of the equation for the consumers.


Of course, I was just hoping to clarify that _every_ processor is binned, as some users don't seem to be aware of this...


----------



## der8auer (Oct 10, 2017)

Gonna try to reply to as much as possible




theoneandonlymrk said:


> Point is, if someone at a shop is picking out the best ones , and therein testing the one i might buy to make sure i got a shit one and that they definitely get more for the silicon gold ,then im not buying that product off them ,and due to this practice I would buy a packaged box with a bit of mystery and luck involved in the purchase, and less money.
> 
> And from what pile do they fill their oem pcs without der8haur branding?.



We have B2B Partners that get used B-Stock at a reduced price. No used items would be sold again to end customers. That would simply be fraud and against the law in Germany.




R-T-B said:


> Don't take everything you read here seriously man.  We're sort of a free for all in the comments section...  well almost anyways.
> 
> 
> I'm the newsposter who covered your VRM issue BTW, no longer work here atm but did cover it.  It is decidedly not "debunked" despite how people may like to spin it.  What would be more correct to say is it may not matter to the casual user, but that is NOT debunking it.
> ...



Not taking it too serious  Sometimes people are still over the top. It's usually even worse on YouTube tho lol.

I agree that some parts of the VRM Disaster video were a bit over the top and/or not explained well enough. The 2nd video with all the clarification should have been included in the first video already. I think that would've prevented a lot.
Fact is that we have/had quite a lot of problems in the past at Caseking with insufficient VRM cooling in our systems. Especially when you have cases with not so good air flow and using AIOs. Forwarded that multiple times to the different vendors and things just got worse and worse. 
I'm glad that it's going in the right direction now tho. 




[XC] Oj101 said:


> I really don't see why you need to defend yourself here. You found a niche in the market, so why the hell not.



Thanks man  Appreciate that.




theoneandonlymrk said:


> I would be interested in hearing his explanation of what happens to bin these chips and just as importantly where the sub grade chips end up.
> 
> Playing fair after a think they could be grading their process rather than the chips.
> 
> ...



See the reply to the first quote





EarthDog said:


> +1
> 
> 
> Considering the difference between coppe and silver as far as heat passing through it isn't much... you wonder if the expense is actually justified.



It's a premium product. Ofc the difference is only few °C but we also offer 5.2 GHz with stock IHS so it's just for people who want the best of the best no matter of the costs.





rtwjunkie said:


> If I understand @der8auer and the OP correctly, they test the chips First, and determine what they will reach comfortably.
> 
> 
> THEN, they delid and repaste only those which meet the criteria.  The others don't get delidded, since it is for the sake of cooling he is doing it after.
> ...



That's not correct. We order CPUs for binning/System Integration and they are treated completely different from the normal B2C business. All of the CPUs for binning get laser engraved first depending on the SKUs we are working on. So for example a CK Crown for delidded CPUs but not pretested. Pretested CPUs would get a "der8auer Advanced Pretested" logo.
Then we take the CPUs and delid them all at once and replace TIM with Liquid Metal. Simply because there is often a production variation from Intel and we have to make sure we don't miss and good CPUs. The behavior of delidded CPUs is also different from stock CPUs. Delidding often helps to lower the vCore by another 40-50 mV. Also it helps to make sure we don't run into any temperature limit. A CPU running with stock tim at 5.2 GHz would always hit 90°C+ and would hardly be stable in these conditions. Temperature helps a lot in terms of stability.

So as the CPUs are already engraved and delidded it's absolutely obvious that they can't go back to the normal B2C market. That's why we have B2B partners that get the "trash" at a reduced price and the loss of this is obviously calculated in the price of the pretested chips.

Hope this clarified things a bit


----------



## rtwjunkie (Oct 10, 2017)

der8auer said:


> Gonna try to reply to as much as possible
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, it clarifies a lot, and is much different than was reported. Thanks for the time to make it clearer!


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 10, 2017)

rtwjunkie said:


> Yes, it clarifies a lot, and is much different than was reported. Thanks for the time to make it clearer!


I'll second that.


----------



## Gasaraki (Oct 13, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> I remember I've paid tiny premium for a D0 stepping of Core i7 920 back in the day. It was like 20€ premium, but it was worth it imo.
> 
> Main question her is, why doesn't Intel use top of the line thermal compound and charge I don't know, 15€ more? Surely such tiny premium would still give them massive profit margin on each CPU (where they use cheap generic crap and charge nothing extra for it) while giving users better thermals than with crappy generic paste.
> 
> I mean, people don't realize that what Intel is doing is essentially causing you to effectively use 2 layers of thermal compound. The more of this crap you stack, the worse things are. Back in the day of 25W and 60W top end CPU's it didn't even matter. But now with 6+ cores and really high clocks, every little matters. Not to mention heatspreaders came later, in the beginning all CPU's were "delided" from factory. They all had direct contact with the cooler.



Ok, currently the 8700K can be overclocked to 5.0 (ON AIR). Temps are around 75 degrees. So if they spend more money and charge you $15 more for the CPU, the temp drops to about 65 degrees. What does that get you? You still can't really overclock to 5.1 ON AIR even with the better thermal interface. You'll need a binned cpu and more voltage.

They are not going to charge everyone $15 more just so some people can get a better overclock.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 14, 2017)

der8auer said:


> Gonna try to reply to as much as possible... Hope this clarified things a bit


As suggested in previous posts, 99.9 Silver will oxidize/tarnish over time. What is your solution to Silver's tendency to oxidize? Are you applying another surface compound to prevent such a problem? And how will it prevent oxidation due to oxygen permeation?


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## R0H1T (Oct 14, 2017)

der8auer said:


> Gonna try to reply to as much as possible
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can we get a "know your *der8auer* better" AMA session on TPU? Also do you ship to *Asia*


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## Dr_b_ (Oct 24, 2017)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> why "derbauer".... after his publicity stunt on the Core i9 + high VRM temps that got debunked, I doubt ppl will spend 700 Euros for a binned chip with his name on it... Rather let RNGezus decide my silicon luck.



It wasn't debunked, it is a real issue when OCing due to power consumption and poor heatsink design on certain motherboards


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## Dr_b_ (Oct 24, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> Where are the ones with _golden_ heatspreaders?
> I may have to wait a liitle longer then....



Silver is a better thermal conductor than gold, but if you just want bling, just gold plate your existing one and dont pay a premium for a binned/delid


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