# Need advice...SLI GTX 970 with 3.5 GB VRAM Issue or one R295X2



## shoti02 (Jan 31, 2015)

hell....i duuno what to do......ia have my new rig with an 1440P Monitor and two GTX 970 Gaming 1 from Gigabyte....but because off all the threads in the net i dunno what is better ....PLZ can u help me ? i can get a R295X2 cheaper, then the 2 GTX 970...but i wanna be save for a few years...

the Nvidia is a newer chip ....but less Vram


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## the54thvoid (Jan 31, 2015)

The R9 295X is more powerful by far (but may require you to carefully check your power supply - it has very specific amperage requirement on the 12v rail).  The 295x will consume a heck of a lot more power as well but if Nvidia can't stop the 970's using the last 512m of ram then you may have stutters.  That being said, I game at 1440p with sli 780ti's with only 3Gb Vram and have no issues.

I can't answer.  Right now, if i was expecting some 2-3 years of use, I'd buy a single 980 and sli it further down the line.  Or as everyone says, wait for AMD or NV's next offerings.


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## 64K (Jan 31, 2015)

imo GTX 970 SLI or R9 295X2 is a bit of overkill for 1440p unless your goal is the max even the most demanding games. I'm doing jut fine with a single 970 at 1440p with 2X AA and max settings and there's only a handful of games right now that I have to turn down the settings a little to get average 40 FPS or better. If it were me I would get a single R9 290X or a GTX 980 (the 980 is way overpriced imo) or wait a couple of months for the R9 380X. It's looking like it will be a beast. If you want two high end GPUs right now of the two options you listed then probably the best bet would be the R9 295X2.

My strategy has been to buy a nice single card every 2 years or so and upgrade to the next generation. Trying to buy a GPU setup that will still kick butt 3 or 4 years from now is a gamble.


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## Lionheart (Jan 31, 2015)

TBH I would just keep the 2x GTX 970's you have until AMD release their new R9 380X / 390X series & see what they're capable of. Rumours say they will launch around March or April. I guess will just have to wait & see.  Also Nvidia still have a high end GPU coming out as well, GTX 980Ti or another Titan maybe.


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## shoti02 (Jan 31, 2015)

my psu is big enough..( have unpacked it yet but it is an evga supernova G2 1000 W.....cpu ist an 4790 K with an asus maximimus hero VII and 16 GB ram...Monitor is an qnix 2710...i have all the parts here  but the most are unpacked...because i had spend a loooottt of Money for a new rig.

forgot....the evga has up to 83,3 AMPS on the rail...should be enough.


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## rooivalk (Jan 31, 2015)

Isn't it just the continuation of your not-so-old thread?

IMO the more you maxxed out everything (4K, ENB, mods - especially texture mods) the more 295X2 shining, partly due to bigger VRAM. If you're not so picky about that like 64k did, GTX970 SLI about equal or even faster at 1440p max setting.

It has, in my opinion, a few of issues:
- I forgot about all 295X2 has WC so temp isn't issue at the beginning, but I don't know how good the temp if it's used for very long hour gaming. Anybody has tested it?
- At almost 500W power consumption, I also worry about durability of the power delivery components. 
- I imagine it's easier to sell one or two 970 (even with VRAM issue) in the future than single 295X2


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## shoti02 (Jan 31, 2015)

...yeah..it is the same Problem, like in my other thread....but i really dunno what would be the best solution ...1 Minute i think nvidi..then amd...then nvidia, then amd...and so on....in the beginning i only wanna buy a new gpu...but then the Stone Begins to rolling...at least i´have purchased parts for nearly 3.000,- €......and i wanna go with a good choice...

Asus maximus Hero VII
4790K
Cryorig Ultimate R
Seagate 3 GB barracuda
Samsung Evo 850
G.Skill 2133 Ripjawsz 16GB
Aerocool Touch 2100
EVGA G2 Supernova 1000W
Coolermaster HAF-X
2 x GTX Gaming G1 970
Bitfenix LED
Cablemod Sleeve Set
Qnix Q 2710 Ultimate Perfect Pixel.....


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## newtekie1 (Jan 31, 2015)

SLI 970s and the 295x2 trade blows. At 1440p the 970s are faster, at 4k the 295 is faster. But in both cases the difference is so small you won't really notice.

I'd personally go with the 970s because of the massive noise, power, and heat savings and not needing to deal with the awkward AIO water cooling on the 295.


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## XSI (Jan 31, 2015)

970 sli. keep it good choice. everything looking good in your build. don't worry about 3.5 Gb ram issue.


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## shoti02 (Jan 31, 2015)

...and the micro stutters in 1440 P ???


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## 64K (Jan 31, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> ...and the micro stutters in 1440 P ???



Right now is not the best time to evaluate GPUs. On the one hand you have the SLI 970 VRAM issue and on the other hand you have the XFire R9 290X power consumption/heat issue. The R9 380X is just around the corner and Nvidia's response to that will likely be the GM210 gaming GPU which will probably outperform the R9 380X.

.....and then Arctic Islands and then Pascal........we are just along for the ride but it's a heck of a good time for PC gaming imo.


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## erocker (Jan 31, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> ...and the micro stutters in 1440 P ???


In regards to what? I'm sure the 295x2 also has micro stutters in certain situations with certain applications. Go with whatever is cheaper, because most likely by the time newer better GPU's come around you'll want to upgrade again.

If you're having issues with your current setup of 970's.. just make the switch. Besides, new hardware is fun.


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## GhostRyder (Jan 31, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> ...yeah..it is the same Problem, like in my other thread....but i really dunno what would be the best solution ...1 Minute i think nvidi..then amd...then nvidia, then amd...and so on....in the beginning i only wanna buy a new gpu...but then the Stone Begins to rolling...at least i´have purchased parts for nearly 3.000,- €......and i wanna go with a good choice...
> 
> Asus maximus Hero VII
> 4790K
> ...


Personally I do not think you would notice a difference switching them out.  The R9 295X2 is more powerful overall than GTX 970's though GTX 970's will probably overclock a bit more to compensate.  Both will get you the max performance from pretty much any game at 1440p so if you already have GTX 970s I would not swap them.  If you are looking for new anyway, I would get the R9 295X2 if you just want the best performance and since the price is cheaper it will be pretty nice but either one is going to be a nice choice.


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## RCoon (Jan 31, 2015)

Lionheart said:


> TBH I would just keep the 2x GTX 970's you have until AMD release their new R9 380X / 390X series & see what they're capable of. Rumours say they will launch around March or April. I guess will just have to wait & see.  Also Nvidia still have a high end GPU coming out as well, GTX 980Ti or another Titan maybe.



Pretty ideal advice for somebody who has some patience. Honestly I wouldn't change anything at the moment, just wait for future options. I'm gonna try and time my new GPU purchase with a 4K IPS panel purchase, until then there's really little reason to sidegrade right now, as there aren't really any good upgrade options.


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## shoti02 (Jan 31, 2015)

i can send the 970 back with full refund...710,- euros...the R9 295X2 will cost me 686,- euros.....so there is no big difference......im pissed up that my old System blowed up ( cat pissed on it )....if the cat had wait a few month it would be easier because they are newer  cards on the market...now i have all the new stuff lying around.....at the moment i am surfing with an Athlon x250 and Motherboard GPU.....


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## GhostRyder (Jan 31, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> i can send the 970 back with full refund...710,- euros...the R9 295X2 will cost me 686,- euros.....so there is no big difference......im pissed up that my old System blowed up ( cat pissed on it )....if the cat had wait a few month it would be easier because they are newer  cards on the market...now i have all the new stuff lying around.....at the moment i am surfing with an Athlon x250 and Motherboard GPU.....


Honestly its not going to make you really any difference either way that you will notice without watching some numbers.  Performance wise they are right on par with eachother and depending on the title the differences are not enough.  Since you need them now and already have them I would probably just keep the GTX 970s unless you are worried that much.  If that is the case go ahead and refund them if it worries you enough though I would think you would not be unsatisfied with either set of cards either way.


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## Ja.KooLit (Jan 31, 2015)

i would say keep your 970 sli. you have it already. although, for 295x2 you have a chance to go quadfire with another 295x2. and then buy two more 1440p monitor for eyefinity. or you can grab 290x for tri fire and eyefinity. FTW.


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## shoti02 (Jan 31, 2015)

but what about the memory issue on the gtx ??


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## newtekie1 (Jan 31, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> but what about the memory issue on the gtx ??


They aren't as bad as people are making it out to be. Look at all the reviews, look at the SLI 970 review posted on this site.  None of the great performance we were seeing in those reviews has changed.

And the fact is that AMD has been fighting microstutter with Crossfire for the last few generations.  So you'll likely have to deal with some minor stuttering in certain scenarios either way you go.


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## GhostRyder (Jan 31, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> but what about the memory issue on the gtx ??


Not really that big of a deal, biggest time that will happen is if you exceed the 3.5gb threshold which is harder than it is made out to be.  It will not cause problems for the most part except in some titles with every little thing turned on/up which in most cases would cause issues on multiple devices.  Most cases this is not going to happen anyways which is why its not the end of the world and since you already have them unless your extremely worried or interested in playing heavily modded Skyrim at 1440p with settings turned beyond up you probably would be fine.


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## shoti02 (Jan 31, 2015)

sure...but what i see in the Internet, the upcomig games will use/need the 4 GB  vram......damn i so confused.....SHIT CAT.....WHY DOES IT NOT PISSED A FEW MONTH LATER.....


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## R-T-B (Feb 1, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> sure...but what i see in the Internet, the upcomig games will use/need the 4 GB  vram......damn i so confused.....SHIT CAT.....WHY DOES IT NOT PISSED A FEW MONTH LATER.....



Cats do what they want, when they want:


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## newtekie1 (Feb 1, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> sure...but what i see in the Internet, the upcomig games will use/need the 4 GB  vram......damn i so confused.....SHIT CAT.....WHY DOES IT NOT PISSED A FEW MONTH LATER.....


Can you ask those people for next week's lottery numbers?


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## shoti02 (Feb 1, 2015)

5, 18, 25, 48, 07, 19.....


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

Hope this helps- 970 will only be constantly playable up to 3.5GB RAM usage. That's a fact.

I will list my user case below on 2x CFX 290x
Far Cry 3, 4k, 4x MSAA- playable with 6000MB VRAM + 400MB dynamic usage shown in GPU-Z (it shows double the amount used due to 2x cards involved)
Becomes unplayable during map loading (in game) where VRAM goes to 7500MB+ and dynamic about 800MB (total exceeding 8GB VRAM or 4GB per card).

Skyrim no mods, 4k, no MSAA- playable with 4600MB + 400MB dynamic.
Becomes unplayable with  4x MSAA with 5600MB

What this might show is that there may be slightly less RAM available to me for Far Cry 3 map loading and a lot less processing power for doing 4x MSAA on Skyrim.

For 1440p what you actually need is a 980 Classified or similar highly clocked version for some future proofing.

If you want to be limited by GPU processing only in the future, then you need 2x 8GB 290x.


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## newtekie1 (Feb 1, 2015)

Ominence said:


> Hope this helps- 970 will only be constantly playable up to 3.5GB RAM usage. That's a fact.
> 
> I will list my user case below on 2x CFX 290x
> Far Cry 3, 4k, 4x MSAA- playable with 6000MB VRAM + 400MB dynamic usage shown in GPU-Z (it shows double the amount used due to 2x cards involved)
> ...



Why are you thinking the RAM doubling applies to 290X Crossfire but not the 970s in SLI?  Also, amount of RAM used doesn't double like that in GPU-Z either.  GPU-Z show the amount of RAM used per card, the card you have select at the bottom.

If anything, if you theory was correct, the 970s would be usable up to 7GB.

But what you are seeing is in FC3 you're going way over your available RAM and the card is beginning to use system memory.  You can kind of think of the extra 0.5GB on the 970 a buffer to it doesn't have to use system memory when it goes over 3.5GB.  Using the 0.5GB is still a lot faster than going out and using the system memory.  Either way, both cards(290X and 970) are going to have to use system RAM.  The same goes for Skyrim.  The reason FC3 is more playable with more system RAM is that FC3 is a much more optimized engine than Skyrim.  That is why you can have 2GB of system RAM used with FX3 and the game is still playable.  But with Skyrim it becomes  unplayable whenever it goes over 1GB of system RAM used.


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

_Why are you thinking the RAM doubling applies to 290X Crossfire but not the 970s in SLI?_ (I didn't say SLI and agree that it's irrelevant to the OP's SLI setup )

_If anything, if you theory was correct, the 970s would be usable up to 7GB._ (this is true personally speaking)
_
Also, amount of RAM used doesn't double like that in GPU-Z either. GPU-Z show the amount of RAM used per card, the card you have select at the bottom._ (what was said is based on observations only. When I disable CFX the RAM usage counter halves. With CFX on, the memory thingy is only available on the 1st card and it shows double to against CFX disabled)


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## shoti02 (Feb 1, 2015)

wait a Minute....far cry 3 is unplayable when it went to 7500 mb....but this is not much more then the gtx 970 .....the gtx is good till 3500 mb ( doubled at the Radeon )......or am i wrong ??


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

newtekie1 said:


> But what you are seeing is in FC3 you're going way over your available RAM and the card is beginning to use system memory. You can kind of think of the extra 0.5GB on the 970 a buffer to it doesn't have to use system memory when it goes over 3.5GB. Using the 0.5GB is still a lot faster than going out and using the system memory. Either way, both cards(290X and 970) are going to have to use system RAM. The same goes for Skyrim. The reason FC3 is more playable with more system RAM is that FC3 is a much more optimized engine than Skyrim. That is why you can have 2GB of system RAM used with FX3 and the game is still playable. But with Skyrim it becomes unplayable whenever it goes over 1GB of system RAM used.



Thanks, I'm not too fussed about memory usage. I know when FC3 drops to a slideshow (for 2-3 secs during map loading) is when it goes to DRAM and beyond VRAM. I also believe if I had 8GB, it wouldn't be an issue. I have 32GB DRAM and no page filing.
I know I don't have enough GPU processing for Skyrim. It's fairly constant between no AA and 4x AA. For that reason I believe (possibly incorrectly) that RAM is not being exceeded with Skyrim.

I also game without vsync so changes and stutters are very noticeable when they do happen...also the inevitable screen tearing!!


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> the gtx is good till 3500 mb ( doubled at the Radeon )......or am i wrong ??



I am sorry, based on by experience with GPU-Z memory counter, I believe that single GTX will be good till 3.5GB and SLI up to 7GB.

Also remember, my FC3 setting is UHD (3840x2160) with 4xMSAA and everything maxed out.


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## shoti02 (Feb 1, 2015)

...the final question is, will i get a benefit from the 4 GB fully accessable ram of the Radeon ?.....are their any other issues ??? the gtx is a newer Modell but does it make a difference ??


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## TRWOV (Feb 1, 2015)

For 1440p I don't think you'd have a problem with the 970s. Only concern would be resale value due to the drama.


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> wait a Minute....far cry 3 is unplayable when it went to 7500 mb....but this is not much more then the gtx 970 .....


note below
Becomes unplayable during map loading (in game) where VRAM goes to 7500MB+ and dynamic about 800MB (total exceeding 8GB VRAM or 4GB per card).



shoti02 said:


> ...the final question is, will i get a benefit from the 4 GB fully accessable ram of the Radeon ?.....are their any other issues ???



at 1440p perhaps not with a single card and more power and heat to deal with. With CFX even more power and heat to deal with and you will get the benefit in some very specific scenarios only depending how good the scaling is. I find that scaling has improved immensely with XDMA as long as you keep the drivers updated. Tread carefully!

but again since at 1440 you will not be pushing the limits too much, the 970 SLI might still be ok for the time being till the next gen is out. if you're gonna lose money on the 970 SLI (I know you said full refund), I wouldn't bother. For the full refund option though, get the cheapest 980 SLI setup you can get (within 800 euro if possible). If outside budget (800), then get the best 290x CFX deal you can get (custom cooler) or the 295x2. implement the power flyer fully if/when you get the 295x2.


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## shoti02 (Feb 1, 2015)

....u haven´t read the full post.....i am talking about a r295x2..it is watercooled !! ( so no issues about heat  an noise ) my psu is big enough ( supernova 1000W )...


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> ....u haven´t read the full post.....



read edited response.

hope the below helps further

usable RAM and related performance hit 295x2 > 970 SLI
Power consumption, heat 970 SLI > 295x2
Overclocking ability 970 SLI > 295x2
overall performance potential @ 1440p 970 SLI > 295x2


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## shoti02 (Feb 1, 2015)

i think i go with the 295x2....all the night i read the Internet and in my opinion is the package from the 295 better then sli 970....in Germany it is 06.02 am.......and i am  totally stressed because the decision


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## Caring1 (Feb 1, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> ....u haven´t read the full post.....i am talking about a r295x2..it is watercooled !! ( so no issues about heat  an noise ) my psu is big enough ( supernova 1000W )...


Good luck with that, from the reviews I have read it needed to be water cooled because it ran so hot and still does.
Another factor to consider is the amount of power it uses and your power bills.


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

you won't be disappointed- it's a good AMD flagship.

do consider the available options between 2x 290x and the 295x2.

In all honesty though CFX requires water cooling (mine is, runs 30C above ambient @ 7.5% OC and +50% power target) for maintaining clock speed and managing fan speed but if you can water cool separate PCBs then the power circuitry constraints on the 295x2 (apart from the PSU requirements) will not apply.


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> Good luck with that, from the reviews I have read it needed to be water cooled because it ran so hot and still does.
> Another factor to consider is the amount of power it uses and your power bills.


it's designed to run that without down clocking around 40C, though I would have some concerns about the VRM temps if I was sitting in a room that hot! AMD themselves are very clear about the power requirements. The 500W power is also well known.


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## newtekie1 (Feb 1, 2015)

You also have to remember that the 295x2 throttles way before the 290X does.  The 290X starts to throttle at 90°C, the 295x2 throttles at 72°C.  So AMD had to make the thing loud.  At idle the stock fan on the 295 is louder than the 970s at load.  And at load it is over twice as load as any 970.  Plus, there are reports of even with the watercooling solution, the 295 still throttles and performance drops.


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

newtekie1 said:


> You also have to remember that the 295x2 throttles way before the 290X does.  The 290X starts to throttle at 90°C, the 295x2 throttles at 72°C.  So AMD had to make the thing loud.  At idle the stock fan on the 295 is louder than the 970s at load.  And at load it is over twice as load as any 970.  Plus, there are reports of even with the watercooling solution, the 295 still throttles and performance drops.


I think the throttle down and fan noise has more to do with the VRM circuitry fan on the card itself- it is packaging constrained and heat dissipation does suffer as a result. When it gets to the tmax, it down clocks and makes whatever noise it has to at that level. The VRM is air cooled only. check the long thermal pads in the middle- effective contact area issue.
I think the GPU temp and radiator fan still remain manageable for temp and noise.


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## Caring1 (Feb 1, 2015)

Thanks for those pics, very interesting.
I'm thinking the Asetek pumps could have been smaller to allow for better air flow, and two radiators can be used to aide cooling even more. Those pumps look to be a standard size like the ones they make for CPU's.
I wouldn't mind seeing one of these beasts modified.


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

I'm not sure if anyone has modified them but there are separate full cover, single slot blocks available from EK and others. But that's off budget and off topic and the VFM equation doesn't measure up for further modifications!

Although it's supplied as a single rad/fan setup, a 2nd fan can also be used for push-pull config, which would make the heat dissipation better on the GPUs, possibly with lower noise. That would depending on the ratings of the fans though. Need Noctua or Noise Blocker for that.

I would remove the fan and shroud altogether and get a larger fan to blow close to it somehow. it's a pity they kept it 2 slot because otherwise if could have had a much taller and possibly wider copper fin stack that wouldn't retain so much heat.


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## newtekie1 (Feb 1, 2015)

Ominence said:


> I think the throttle down and fan noise has more to do with the VRM circuitry fan on the card itself- it is packaging constrained and heat dissipation does suffer as a result. When it gets to the tmax, it down clocks and makes whatever noise it has to at that level. The VRM is air cooled only. check the long thermal pads in the middle- effective contact area issue.
> I think the GPU temp and radiator fan still remain manageable for temp and noise.




I think it is both.  As the GPUs get hotter they draw more power(this is a basic rule for circuitry).  The VRM is definitely weaker on the 295 than on two 290Xs, it can't take the same power draw as two 290X cards could.  The 295 I had would start to throttle after about 10 minutes of heavy gameplay in a closed case(Corsair 650D).  Once the temp hit 72°C on the GPUs the clocks started to drop.  It managed to not throttle in an open test bench, but I don't think there are many(if any) cases that can keep the 295 under 72°C without sounding like a jet taking off.  The noise didn't really bother me, I always use headphones, but the throttling did.  I even tried to flip the fan around to pull cool air in through the GPU's rad, and that extended the time before the card started to throttle.  But it would still start to throttle after 20-30 minutes of gaming.

Yeah, if you have a low ambient temp in your room you might get lucky and get minimal throttling, but heck this card puts out so much heat it actually upped the temp of my room by a good 5°F.  The A/C was keeping the room at ~70°C, after about half an hour of gaming the temp in the room was up to 75°F.


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

newtekie1 said:


> I think it is both.  As the GPUs get hotter they draw more power(this is a basic rule for circuitry).  The VRM is definitely weaker on the 295 than on two 290Xs, it can't take the same power draw as two 290X cards could.  The 295 I had would start to throttle after about 10 minutes of heavy gameplay in a closed case(Corsair 650D).  Once the temp hit 72°C on the GPUs the clocks started to drop.  It managed to not throttle in an open test bench, but I don't think there are many(if any) cases that can keep the 295 under 72°C without sounding like a jet taking off.  The noise didn't really bother me, I always use headphones, but the throttling did.  I even tried to flip the fan around to pull cool air in through the GPU's rad, and that extended the time before the card started to throttle.  But it would still start to throttle after 20-30 minutes of gaming.
> 
> Yeah, if you have a low ambient temp in your room you might get lucky and get minimal throttling, but heck this card puts out so much heat it actually upped the temp of my room by a good 5°F.  The A/C was keeping the room at ~70°C, after about half an hour of gaming the temp in the room was up to 75°F.


My open air 4x CFX 7970GHz Gigabyte 3x Windforce throttled down card 1 and 2 all the time in an open case. That was an instant giveaway of how good multi-card scaling was (for >2 cards) and I knew my setup had to be fully WCed. Went with water on my 7970 then these 290Xs. My desktop is never going to move so I have a 3x3 140mm rad some distance away with the GPUs/CPU/MB on water. The 290Xs cannot put up a fight with that much water to keep them cool


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## shoti02 (Feb 1, 2015)

thnx for the replies....i slept very uncomfortable.....get up for 10 minutes......i thought that the r295x2 ( what is ALWAYS watercooled ) is not as loud as two gtx in sli ??? now i am confused


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

I won't comment on the noise as I haven't used it- check reviews for that. What I will say is, that at a user level, the issue with the 970 which you are concerned with, cannot be fixed. However, the 295x2 heat and noise can be managed.

The 295x2 is a hybrid cooling solution.
GPU core is water cooled (water block, integrated pumps, fan and rad)
VRM and VRAM is air cooled (finned heat spreader, fin stack heat sink and fan)

If you want proper fully water cooled 295x2 you need something like this- all for additional cost obviously and no warranty. You could also consider the ASUS Ares III.

http://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-fc-r9-295x2.html

Alternatively consider custom cooled 290Xs like the 970 SLI you have now. Make sure you have 1 extra slot between the cards. If you install on the 1st slot then the 2nd card should only go in the 4 slot spacing. Slot 1 has card 1, 2nd covered by cooler, 3rd slot space left empty (may not have a slot at all depending on MB- just need the spacing), 4th slot card 2.


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## shoti02 (Feb 1, 2015)

i have the asus maximus hero VII...there ist not much space between Slot 1 and Slot 2

i know , water cooiling is nice...had done for a couple of years...also i had made my own ..( the site was www.hart.core.de is not more online ) ...it is quite cool but it is very expensive and with the next gen u can throw away the water block.....watercooling is cool...and the optic is awsome....


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## Ominence (Feb 1, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> i have the asus maximus hero VII...there ist not much space between Slot 1 and Slot 2


The spacing on the VII Hero is spot on. The red PCI-E slots are at position 1 and 4 in reference to each other.
Stay sensible on cost and get custom 290Xs, 4GB or 8GB- the choice is yours. Given how concerned you are with the SLI 970s, I'd go with the 8GB option if you can afford. It is not required/necessary however.


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## newtekie1 (Feb 1, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> thnx for the replies....i slept very uncomfortable.....get up for 10 minutes......i thought that the r295x2 ( what is ALWAYS watercooled ) is not as loud as two gtx in sli ??? now i am confused


Oh no, the 295 is way louder than two GTX 970s in SLI, especially at idle(since most aftermarket 970s turn the fans completely off at idle making them 100% silent).  If it was custom watercooled it could be quieter, but the stock AIO watercooler isn't up to the task of cooling the card card properly so the fans have to really work, which makes them loud.

You might be able to lower the idle fan noise with a custom fan curve through overclocking software, but that just means the GPUs will idle hotter, which means the card will start to throttle sooner when gaming.


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## shoti02 (Feb 1, 2015)

have i remarked, that i hate my cat ??? i dunno what to do...ich have sent roy ( from AMD ) a message, when the 300 series will appear....hope he answer...


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## arbiter (Feb 1, 2015)

i guess it does go without saying about 295x2, people that own AIO water coolers probably can weigh in that its when the pumps die. I have heard they tend to 3-4 years (AIO pumps in general). Yea most ppl would ditch it after that, doubt 1 pump would move water fast enough to keep that beast cool.

As one guy pointed out stutter issues comes in to effect when he doing 4k and 4x MSAA. if you look at legitment reviews, that is what it seems to take for that issue to become apparent is using super high settings like those that lets be real you run games like farcry4 or BF4 at 4k ultra with 4x MSAA, any card will have issues even 295x2.

I read most posts, most relies are pretty solid and level headed of people that understand the issue and not buying in how over blown one side has made the problem.


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## GhostRyder (Feb 1, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> thnx for the replies....i slept very uncomfortable.....get up for 10 minutes......i thought that the r295x2 ( what is ALWAYS watercooled ) is not as loud as two gtx in sli ??? now i am confused


Well here, if your interested in the numbers here are a couple of charts showing the 295X2 and GTX 970 SLI noise numbers.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_970_sli_review,6.html

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7930/the-amd-radeon-r9-295x2-review/17
Hopefully that can give you an idea of what to expect, bear in mind many of these are on reference models and not the various aftermarket coolers available and some will be slightly better/worse than others but the general areas are about the same.  There is also a dual GPU 290X that is air cooled as well if your looking for it but that is a different area (Look up PowerColor R9 290X Devil 13).  I still think you would be fine either way but seeing as you are at this point very interested in getting something different, there are some numbers and reviews to get you started so you know what to expect.



shoti02 said:


> have i remarked, that i hate my cat ??? i dunno what to do...ich have sent roy ( from AMD ) a message, when the 300 series will appear....hope he answer...




Probably March or April honestly, that is about the time frame that is guessed based on what they have said and what we have been getting leaked.


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## Caring1 (Feb 2, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> ...ich have sent roy ( from AMD ) a message, when the 300 series will appear....hope he answer...


1st half of this year is meant to be the scheduled release, but with the way things work it could be any time.
I'm looking forward to seeing their next liquid cooled GPU.


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## TRWOV (Feb 2, 2015)

1st half usually means "June". Otherwise they would be more specific (1st quarter, spring, etc).


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## shoti02 (Feb 2, 2015)

but  right now it would be the BEST time to launch the card.....amd would get a benefit from the GTX desaster....


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## arbiter (Feb 2, 2015)

TRWOV said:


> 1st half usually means "June". Otherwise they would be more specific (1st quarter, spring, etc).


That Assumes AMD keeps on schedule, which their track record for that is pretty bad.


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## rooivalk (Feb 2, 2015)

arbiter said:


> That Assumes AMD keeps on schedule, which their track record for that is pretty bad.


tbh both are bad.


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## newtekie1 (Feb 2, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> but  right now it would be the BEST time to launch the card.....amd would get a benefit from the GTX desaster....


They can't release a card that isn't ready.  AMD has some real issues to overcome, they can't just release a bigger version of their current GPU like nVidia can.

And does anyone even think nVidia isn't just sitting on GM110 waiting for AMD's next release?


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## marmiteonpizza (Feb 2, 2015)

R295X2 all the way. VRAM is probably the best way of measuring GPU power...when it comes to gaming that is. I myself have a 290X (8GB VRAM) and could not want anything better! All my games on max graphics.


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## 64K (Feb 2, 2015)

newtekie1 said:


> And does anyone even think nVidia isn't just sitting on GM110 waiting for AMD's next release?



Looks like the R9 380X/390X with more cores will come in possibly 2 months which should outperform a GTX 980 and then Nvidia will at some point release a GM210 that will be amazing if it's a 250 watt GPU like the GK110 GTX 780Ti was. Then AMD has a GPU for 2016 planned that is possibly codenamed Arctic Islands. That's an interesting name. Maybe AMD has figured out how to reduce the power consumption/heat with the new design. Then we get Pascal. Rinse/repeat. imo this is great times for PC gamers.


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## erocker (Feb 2, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> but  right now it would be the BEST time to launch the card.....amd would get a benefit from the GTX desaster....


June. They have to make them first.


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## GhostRyder (Feb 2, 2015)

64K said:


> Looks like the R9 380X/390X with more cores will come in possibly 2 months which should outperform a GTX 980 and then Nvidia will at some point release a GM210 that will be amazing if it's a 250 watt GPU like the GK110 GTX 780Ti was. Then AMD has a GPU for 2016 planned that is possibly codenamed Arctic Islands. That's an interesting name. Maybe AMD has figured out how to reduce the power consumption/heat with the new design. Then we get Pascal. Rinse/repeat. imo this is great times for PC gamers.


 If we are to believe the little tidbits/leaks we have gotten it almost sounds like they are going to release first the R9 380X and planning for that to be the top tier card for awhile so they can wait until the big die NVidia chips come out so they can have something to compare to before they put it into play.  Of course that is just a bare minimum speculation of what we have seen floating around so that could be wrong.


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## shoti02 (Feb 2, 2015)

i have asked roy@amd about it....the answer is not helpful....


Hi well we think that the current range are still awesome.  I used 2 x 290X to play Battlefield every day.  

*roy taylor *





Corporate Vice President | Alliances
7171 Southwest Parkway, Austin, TX 78735 USA 
*Twitter: AMD_Roy* *M* +(1) 323-447-8387



facebook  |  amd.com

*From:* Tobias Tessmann [mailto:totes@gmx.de] 
*Sent:* Monday, February 2, 2015 8:14 AM
*To:* Taylor, Roy
*Subject:* Aw: RE: RE: GTX 970
Hi..now i am really disapointed...thought that AMD are the good guys...
AMD would get a hell of bucks if they release the 3xx series now.... at this time
*Gesendet:* Montag, 02. Februar 2015 um 16:50 Uhr
*Von:* "Taylor, Roy" <Roy.Taylor@amd.com>
*An:* "Tobias Tessmann" <totes@gmx.de>
*Betreff:* RE: RE: GTX 970
Hi Tobi, we cannot comment on your return I am afraid, you need to take that up with your supplier.
Nor can I discuss unannounced products, sorry my friend,
cheers
*roy taylor*




Corporate Vice President | Alliances
7171 Southwest Parkway, Austin, TX 78735 USA
*Twitter: AMD_Roy* *M* +(1) 323-447-8387



facebook  |  amd.com


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## GhostRyder (Feb 2, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> i have asked roy@amd about it....the answer is not helpful....
> 
> 
> Hi well we think that the current range are still awesome.  I used 2 x 290X to play Battlefield every day.
> ...


 Well I mean he cannot announce a product that is not even announced formally to the public yet sadly.  Its honestly going to be at least another month or so before we see the R9 380X (Or whatever makes it to the tables though that is the predicted next card).  I would say get whichever you decide is the best at this time as either will fit your needs well enough and even with the next generation around the corner that seems to always be the case.  Your not going to be unsatisfied either way!


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## shoti02 (Feb 4, 2015)

ok...no answer...no onw who really know the difference....i ´ll go with 295x2....hoping it is not a failure


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## GhostRyder (Feb 4, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> ok...no answer...no onw who really know the difference....i ´ll go with 295x2....hoping it is not a failure


I will say I only know 2 people in real life (Plenty more here and other forums say they own it as well) that own the R9 295X2 (Or at least that go to the LAN events in my areas).  1 runs a Quadfire rig with 2 and the other runs a single one in his machine and both run very well and cool with the Quadfire rig topping out at the low 70's.  The other one is fine as well and he has never complained about it being loud or anything else, in fact its pretty quiet compared to most of the machines at the event and the performance is great (The Quadfire friend uses a 1600p monitor while the other uses a 1440p) or they claim it is.  That is based off when we have talked more than anything though but they never have complained about them as far as I can tell because most of the time they brag about them (lol though most people talk about their rigs there in a positive way).


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## 64K (Feb 4, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> ok...no answer...no onw who really know the difference....i ´ll go with 295x2....hoping it is not a failure



Well, let's look at W1zzard's findings. That would be a first hand account since he thoroughly tested it.



Spoiler: Temps



*Temperatures*





Temperatures are surprisingly low, lower than we expected from a single 120 mm radiator cooling two Hawaii GPUs. I did notice that temperatures in Furmark reach 68°C, which is higher but still comfortably low. I wish AMD had picked a quieter fan profile to reap in the watercooling solution's benefits.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_295_X2/28.html





Spoiler: Noise



The card is just too noisy in idle, period. AMD is running both the fan on the card, which cools the VRM, and the fan on the radiator, which cools both GPUs, at speeds that are way too high to keep a card cool that is producing 40 W of heat. Pretty much every air-cooled graphics card is substantially quieter in idle.

During gaming, the watercooling solution unfolds its full potential by keeping the card quieter than the R9 290X/290/HD 7990 while it delivers much better gaming performance.

As you can hear for yourself in the video on page 29, the R9 295X2, like the HD 7990, unfortunately suffers from some coil noise issues. While its coil noise is not nearly as bad as that of the HD 7990, it is still present and audible, depending on the game, framerate, and GPU load. While I understand that it is not easy to handle such power draw, I would have expected AMD's engineers to pay more attention to this particular detail after the HD 7990 coil-noise drama. Other editors have confirmed that their sample also suffers from coil noise, although to varying degrees.






http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_295_X2/23.html





Spoiler: Performance














http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_970_SLI/20.html



I would say go with the R9 295X2 over the SLI GTX 970s because of the issues with the 970 and I think you said it would be a cheaper option also where you live.


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## shoti02 (Feb 4, 2015)

it is a liitle bit cheaper....but 30 Euros are not so much.....i wanna have the ultimate card combo....and my fears are, that the r 290x...is an " old " card......does not know what it be menat in the feature against the 970 sli....

i couldn´t test it...i have two 970 here and 1 r295x2..but the ram is not here...it will least a while if the g.skill ram is here....got the trident x back and ordered the ripjawsz ....but i ahve to make a decision because i have not any time to send the cards back....

BTW...on the package from the xfx 295 is printed that u need an 1250 W psu ....???WTF....i have an EVGA Supernova P2 1000W...this should be enough or ?


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## GhostRyder (Feb 4, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> it is a liitle bit cheaper....but 30 Euros are not so much.....i wanna have the ultimate card combo....and my fears are, that the r 290x...is an " old " card......does not know what it be menat in the feature against the 970 sli....
> 
> i couldn´t test it...i have two 970 here and 1 r295x2..but the ram is not here...it will least a while if the g.skill ram is here....got the trident x back and ordered the ripjawsz ....but i ahve to make a decision because i have not any time to send the cards back....
> 
> BTW...on the package from the xfx 295 is printed that u need an 1250 W psu ....???WTF....i have an EVGA Supernova P2 1000W...this should be enough or ?


 You should be fine, for the record I am running 3 R9 290X's overclocked and an i7 5930K overclocked on a Rosewill Lightning 1300Watt so I can safely say your PSU is enough for a R9 295X2 as long as it has the proper amps on the rail (which I think we already all went through on yours).  They always overkill on PSU requirement on the box mostly to alleviate some potential problems with "off brand" or "poor quality" PSU's


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## 64K (Feb 4, 2015)

Yeah that PSU is rated for 83.3 amps on the +12V rail so it's good for 1,000 watts. btw that is one of the best PSUs around right now. W1zzard found that the R9 295X2 used 500 watts at peak in gaming so that leaves you plenty of headroom even to do some overclocking if you want to.



Spoiler: Power Consumption


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## shoti02 (Feb 4, 2015)

ar their any reliable sources because of the sound ? in review´s i saw that the gtx 970 gigabtye gaming has 1.1 Sone....the r295X2 has 2.9 sone....it depends of the fan for the vram.....for the rad i have already ordered an adapter

http://www.inline-info.de/de/inline-detail/artikel/6221/


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## newtekie1 (Feb 4, 2015)

If you are planning on replacing the RAD fan on the 295, good luck.  Just looking at the one I had it looked like a total pain in the ass to replace the RAD ran.  AMD wired it into the card, so it is zip tied down to the tubing,so cutting those risks cutting into the tubing.  Then it runs into the shroud, so to unplug it you have to remove the shroud.  Finally they don't use a standard fan connector so you have to connector you replacement fan to a motherboard header control based on GPU temperature.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 5, 2015)

So I may or may not be getting a GTX 970 to replace my 7970 but is this really an issues people are facing? I just want to check before changing it to a R290x


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## shoti02 (Feb 5, 2015)

hmm...in the powerline from the amd to the fan there is an adapter....it is connected with a three pin...so there should be no problem or am i wrong ?? first i thought the same but then i saw that the cable is not one piece...it is connected in the line via a 3-pin....


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## newtekie1 (Feb 5, 2015)

brandonwh64 said:


> So I may or may not be getting a GTX 970 to replace my 7970 but is this really an issues people are facing? I just want to check before changing it to a R290x



Not really, it is really being blown out of proportion.  There are a very few rare instances where stuttering happens.  Apparently Shadow of Mordor is the worst, but still pretty playable.  But you basically have to crank the settings up to max with MSAA to see any stuttering.  And that game isn't exactly the most efficient anyway, and if you use one of the more efficient AA methods like FXAA or TXAA then it is fine.



shoti02 said:


> hmm...in the powerline from the amd to the fan there is an adapter....it is connected with a three pin...so there should be no problem or am i wrong ?? first i thought the same but then i saw that the cable is not one piece...it is connected in the line via a 3-pin....



In the one I had the fan ran directly into the shroud.  They might have hid the adapter in the shroud, but I wasn't about to take apart a customers graphics card to find out.  Either way, on the one I had you had to remove the shroud to change the RAD fan.

Edit: IDK, on the pictures I see what you mean, but on the one I had a couple weeks ago the fan wire ran directly into the card. Maybe they made a recent revision?  Hopefully you get the older style.


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## Nullifier (Feb 5, 2015)

Sorry guys I'm too lazy to read the whole thread, but is the consensus 970 SLI or 295x2, because I could probably exchange my 970sli for an AIO water Sapphire 295x2.


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## shoti02 (Feb 5, 2015)

seams i have the older rev.....because the wires are gettin NOT directly on the car...ther is DEFINATLY an 3 Pin adapter in the line....i have the card here so i can see it......will the 200mm fan a better solution ?? i  already ordered the adapter and it will arive tomorrow...

question...i had rev 1.0 ..... is that a bad rev ?? because u say that u have another rev....and i still have the 3 pin adapter ...... it is an XFX R295X2...dunno what the rev changes

you see it ??


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## shoti02 (Feb 5, 2015)




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## 64K (Feb 5, 2015)

brandonwh64 said:


> So I may or may not be getting a GTX 970 to replace my 7970 but is this really an issues people are facing? I just want to check before changing it to a R290x



For a single GTX 970 especially at 1080p I don't see you having any problems at all with it. I run a 970 with a 1440p monitor and I am happy with my card. The R9 290X is about $50 less (MSI and Gigabyte) than the least expensive GTX 970 though if that's a consideration to you.


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## shoti02 (Feb 5, 2015)

i know you guys got stressed from me but is there really no one that has tested both ? and not only searches the benchmarks ? because it is a hard decision. amazon gave me time till 28 februar to send the gtx back....the radeon can be sent back  within the next ten days and i have no chance to test ist. my ram is not here and then i´ll have to do the setup...which will take a few days...

i only wanna be save to play at 1440P ....


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## erocker (Feb 5, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> is there really no one that has tested both ?



Yes, both cards have been thoroughly tested here:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/


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## GhostRyder (Feb 5, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> i know you guys got stressed from me but is there really no one that has tested both ? and not only searches the benchmarks ? because it is a hard decision. amazon gave me time till 28 februar to send the gtx back....the radeon can be sent back  within the next ten days and i have no chance to test ist. my ram is not here and then i´ll have to do the setup...which will take a few days...
> 
> i only wanna be save to play at 1440P ....


These are probably some of the better comparisons you can see for what your wanting on top of showing you the link here again.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_970_SLI/6.html
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_970_sli_review,12.html

I would say view both of these reviews by looking at the games you play and making a decision.  Honestly the difference minus a few titles that perform better based on vendor are going to perform about the same within margin of error.


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## shoti02 (Feb 7, 2015)

hi guys....i did a lot of building my rig this night...cablemanagemant and so on....one question....can i install the r295x2 on the second pcie-port ??? or are ther any performance issues ???? have the maximus hero VII...


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## newtekie1 (Feb 7, 2015)

Yes you can install the 295 in the second PCI-E x16 slot, but it will only run an x8.  Being a dual-GPU card, the x8 bandwidth shared between the two GPUs will likely cause lower performance.


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## Caring1 (Feb 7, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> hi guys....i did a lot of building my rif this night...cablemanagemant and so on....one question....can i install the r295x2 on the second pcie-port ??? or are ther any performance issues ???? have the maximus hero VII...


Looking at the Asus site, both the red slots run at PCI-e 3.0 x 16, so you can use either slot at full speed.
If you put a card in the first red slot it will slow the card to x 8.


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## shoti02 (Feb 7, 2015)

?? now i am confused....is the performance the same on slot 2 as on slot 1 ??? because the big cryorig cooler  i have not so much space....

quote: If you put a card in the first red slot it will slow the card to x 8.

why is the first slot slower ???

quote: Yes you can install the 295 in the second PCI-E x16 slot, but it will only run an x8

i know i can install it...but is it the same performance as on pci-e 1 ???


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## Caring1 (Feb 7, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> ?? now i am confused....is the performance the same on slot 2 as on slot 1 ??? because the big cryorig cooler  i have not so much space....
> 
> quote: If you put a card in the first red slot it will slow the card to x 8.
> 
> why is the first slot slower ???


Both red slots run at x16
Running two cards will make them run at x8
If you only use the R295 x 2 in the second red slot it will be full speed if the first slot remains empty.


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## shoti02 (Feb 7, 2015)

thnx ..the first slot will be empty....it is only a storage problem....so there ar no performance issues.....thnx


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## newtekie1 (Feb 7, 2015)

Even with the first slot empty, if you put a card in the second slot it will only run at x8.  The second slot is x8 only, it will never run at x16.  The pins are not even physically there on the board to allow the second slot to run at x16.

Edit:  Just look at the back of the board, and you'll see the second slot only has enough pins to run as x8.


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## GhostRyder (Feb 7, 2015)

I would not install it on the second because as Newtekie said that second slot is only designed for 8x on the hero.

Though to be fair a PCIE 3.0 at 8x is the equivalent speed of pcie 2.0 at 16x speed so you would probably be running at PCIE 2.0 8x speeds which does not bottleneck 2x R9 290X cards.

I would still try to find a way to run in the top slot though however.


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## shoti02 (Feb 7, 2015)

ok...dun the first test....installed the radeon.....DAMN is it loud in idle....i have no OS installed but if i fired it up it is really loud.....next try the two gtx....they ar MUCH quieter.............


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## GhostRyder (Feb 7, 2015)

shoti02 said:


> ok...dun the first test....installed the radeon.....DAMN is it loud in idle....i have no OS installed but if i fired it up it is really loud.....next try the two gtx....they ar MUCH quieter.............


Well once you get the driver installed it will be able to be adjusted for better idle speed, it's load noise though is going to be better compared apples to apples.

You need to test with os installed to see what your going to like and stress them both.  No os is a bad way to test cards as the drivers contain updates and changes in the way the cards run.


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## shoti02 (Feb 10, 2015)

Ghostryder will be happy.... i ordered 2 SAPPHIRE VAPOR-X R9 290X 8GB. the 295x2 is hard to mount, dunno where to mount the radiator and so on...the two gtx 970...i am afraid of the memory issue.....ok, the sapphire will cot me 200 euros more....let´s see


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## Saspz (Feb 11, 2015)

If it's alright I'll weigh in here instead of bumping my one month old thread regarding 970 upgrades.

I bought the GTX 970 in SLI as recommended from some users on this forum and play at 1440P just as the op does. That is not a dig at anybody by the way. Second, third opinion, reviews, benchmarks go a long way.

I want to be playing all of these games at top spec with 60 FPS for a while yet. Since the vram issue I have been very much so sat on the fence. I don't think I can bare going back to AMD.

The 970's are quiet and don't require the window being open during long sessions of gaming. My question really is should I send these back and switch to SLI 980's as some others have done? Or could I maybe switch to 1 980 and wait? I don't want to be taking a major step backwards.

I am playing at 1440P and not 1080P by the way. This is the main reason why I am worried. SLI 970 and 1440P suddenly doesn't seem like a good combination. Problems have been minimal thus far. Noticeable FPS drops and stutter issues on the game Counter-Strike: Global Offensive and some of the main newish single player titles I have been playing regularly.


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## shoti02 (Feb 11, 2015)

this also the same problem i have for about 4 weeks...i dunno what to do...... i like the performance oft the gtx...otherwise, the true specs ar with the amd ..it has mor  brute force  ( on the paper ) ...iám also afraid of the stutters ( spending 3500 euros in a new rig ) so my last decision was to buy the sapphire XF with 8 GB each one....and there is one point that was positive for amd....i had many mails with roy taylor ( amd vice corporate ) and he was THE ONLY ONE that give me support...had a nice mails and i got an citizen star key for nothing....ok it is not so much but he always TALKED to me...nvidia did give NO NO NO response.....means for me, that the team red have more heart for the gamers..they are real people......


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 11, 2015)

No matter what machine you build you might have a stutter.


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## Saspz (Feb 11, 2015)

I hope it all works out for you man with the AMD cards. It's expensive for hardware upgrades for us Europeans :/.

I'm in the exact same boat as you. Spent a fortune on upgrades that were meant to be the dogs bollocks (great) then the next minute they are a steaming pile of worthless junk at 1440P and SLI.

Could someone please please please give me a solid answer regarding the 970's at 1440P. Should I send them back, pay up and get the SLI 980's instead at a much bigger cost? Get a single 980 maybe and hold out until next year, if a single card option can even hold out at 1440P, I doubt it.

I don't want to be lumbered with useless cards 6 months down the line with no way of returning them. It might all be over exaggerations from a panicking internet base. If it isn't though I would have shelled out for SLI 970's at 1440P that can't do a sufficient job at one of the higher levels on new games.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 11, 2015)

Old cards are useful for upgrade troubleshooting.


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## Saspz (Feb 11, 2015)

Hmm, maybe someone else who can actually give a thorough answer would be better here. No disrespect intended.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 11, 2015)

eidairaman1 said:


> What im telling you is keep 1 around just in case your new board fails or is doa



Go with your gut feeling on this. Otherwise send 'em back for a pair of 980s. There is no need to upgrade yearly either.


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