# How do you feel about "Cloud Computing"?



## lexluthermiester (Jul 22, 2019)

After a bit of discussion in this thread;








						Intel's CEO Blames 10 nm Delay on being "Too Aggressive"
					

During Fortune's Brainstorm Tech conference in Aspen, Colorado, Intel's CEO Bob Swan took stage and talked about the company, about where Intel is now and where they are headed in the future and how the company plans to evolve. Particular focus was put on how Intel became "data centric" from "PC...




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I thought it might be interesting to see how everyone feels about the subject. The poll allows for up to 5 selections and feel free to join the discussion.

I personally have mixed feelings and opinions on cloud computing and streaming services. I use cloud storage incidentally but prefer to avoid it. I love Youtube but am not a fan of streaming TV shows & movies. I absolutely refuse to stream games on any level. I would rather not game at all then stream games.


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## Solaris17 (Jul 22, 2019)

Hm, This is an interesting topic of discussion.

I have trouble understanding what both sides argue. From back when I was a sysadmin then to sysengineer to again where I am now, seeing the otherside really puts into perspective what "Cloud" really is.

Its simply the ability to access an application or service remotely on servers you may or may not manage.

Do you use freeNAS or PLEX at home? Do you stream videos from those servers or sync documents to the Owncloud or Nextcloud you host on a spare machine in your closet? Congrats, you are using the "cloud".

I really could go on forever but im in the middle of dinner. I do not use and will never use certain applications that utilize the cloud....such as gaming. However the "Cloud" is much more than end user applications. Even in the IT infrastructure world the "cloud" be it Azure/AWS/GCP and its related service O365/GSuite/Sharepoint probably run one or many if not all of the employers you have ever worked for.

In the early 2ks we were all about multi-server infrastructures and HA (High availability). Then in the mid 2ks we were wow'd by leaps in virtualization. Now we are taking Virtualization to the cloud to run multiple as in hundreds and sometimes even thousands of servers to help deliver products, or simply keep them private and leverage them as tools for internal workforce. Some even rent cluster space to mine bitcoin, or run scientific calculations.

I do think the "cloud" is huge, but it is very much what _you _make it. Cloud infrastructure and services are here to stay. Cloud SaaS like o365 Gsuite are also here to stay. Other things may follow suite like gaming etc. It at first wont be as predominant or as needed as say word. But the market is their for some.

Will offline backup or private/on prem servers or services always exist? I think so. No doubt that alot of services will offer something to someone via the "cloud" though.


Remember though, all context. "Cloud" existed long before some of these platforms.


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## moproblems99 (Jul 22, 2019)

Solaris17 said:


> Do you use freeNAS or PLEX at home? Do you stream videos from those servers or sync documents to the Owncloud or Nextcloud you host on a spare machine in your closet? Congrats, you are using the "cloud".



In regards to this thread, I don't consider anything I 100% control (location, hardware, management, access, etc) the cloud.  AWS, Azure and the like, most certainly the cloud and I prefer not to use them if I can.  Obviously, as a home internetz user, I have limited choices of what I can do and I am not running all my stuff in a DMZ co-located with my personal network.  I would absolutely love to get a second line into my house but I just don't have the justification to pay for it.

I know many companies that make use of Azure AD.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 22, 2019)

Solaris17 said:


> Do you use freeNAS or PLEX at home? Do you stream videos from those servers or sync documents to the Owncloud or Nextcloud you host on a spare machine in your closet? Congrats, you are using the "cloud".


For me, no. Too much hassle and irritation. Building a standalone system and the network, wired or not, to service it is not worth the added expense when I could simply buy an extra drive for the systems in question and copy over the files to said drive. Don't have to worry about network congestion or making shares for some but not for all or managing network authoritatives.



Solaris17 said:


> or run scientific calculations.


This is an excellent use case scenario for cloud computing.


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## Solaris17 (Jul 22, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> In regards to this thread, I don't consider anything I 100% control (location, hardware, management, access, etc) the cloud.  AWS, Azure and the like, most certainly the cloud and I prefer not to use them if I can.  Obviously, as a home internetz user, I have limited choices of what I can do and I am not running all my stuff in a DMZ co-located with my personal network.  I would absolutely love to get a second line into my house but I just don't have the justification to pay for it.
> 
> I know many companies that make use of Azure AD.



Yup and I can see where you are coming from, thats how it is for most I think when it comes to arguing against it. Like I said I am neither for or against some of the "products" but thats all they are. Cloud is a "tool" more than it is a "thing". If that makes sense. Or atleast if you think about it like that, it gives it a bit of clarity when trying to make decisions on what you really like or dislike given the extra context.


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## moproblems99 (Jul 22, 2019)

Solaris17 said:


> Yup and I can see where you are coming from, thats how it is for most I think when it comes to arguing against it. Like I said I am neither for or against some of the "products" but thats all they are. Cloud is a "tool" more than it is a "thing". If that makes sense.



I agree.  It's not that I am against them, I just don't want to use them.  They have valid use cases for people (even for me) but just not my preference if I don't have to.  I use both AWS and Azure for work.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 22, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> I agree. It's not that I am against them, I just don't want to use them.


Exactly. However, what we all should actively resist is the forceful requirement of cloud usage. We have already seen this with software such as Adobe products, and as a form of DRM with games.


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## Solaris17 (Jul 22, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> It's not that I am against them, I just don't want to use them.



That was careless of me to word it like that. I was not trying to make assumptions, but you certainly did hit the nail on the head of another big juxtaposition the arguments for or against seldom seem to tackle.

To want to use them and to be against "it" are two different points of view. Its technically 4 different arguments.

for or against a product

and for or against the/a product being SaaS on the "cloud"


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 22, 2019)

Local is faster by far plus you dont ave to worry about a cloud server going down if data is local.


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## moproblems99 (Jul 22, 2019)

Solaris17 said:


> That was careless of me to word it like that. I was not trying to make assumptions, but you certainly did hit the nail on the head of another big juxtaposition the arguments for or against seldom seem to tackle.



I didn't take it that way.  I was pretty sure I knew what you meant, more just clarifying my position.



lexluthermiester said:


> Exactly. However, what we all should actively resist is the forceful requirement of cloud usage. We have already seen this with software such as Adobe products, and as a form of DRM with games.



They can require whatever they want.  I just won't use the product provided that I don't agree with what they are doing.


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 22, 2019)

I prefer backups to my server, but absolutely critical data and photos are also synced with One Drive, which has never given me any trouble and also syncs with my phone.

I do stream movies from Netflix and Amazon, but my preferred movie and TV show storage and streaming is my own home server.  

It's also where I keep an extra copy of every GOG game I own...just in case.

So, predominately a local network guy, but I see some uses for the cloud and use them.


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## windwhirl (Jul 22, 2019)

Everything local. Cloud services limited as much as possible. I can make exceptions, but I have a few rules:
*Work-related stuff must remain either local or inside internal network. No cloud services allowed, only exception being government-provided and/or mandated services (some tax filing and certain information requests are done online today)
*No game-streaming (DRM and always-online games are enough of a pain already)
*If it is bandwidth intensive, avoid it (I have a 250 GB cap)


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 22, 2019)

Solaris17 said:


> Do you use freeNAS or PLEX at home? Do you stream videos from those servers or sync documents to the Owncloud or Nextcloud you host on a spare machine in your closet? Congrats, you are using the "cloud".


Those aren't clouds, they're servers.

You can tell something is cloud versus not because when you're running software, you can't point to a specific machine and say "it is running on that one" without doing a lot of research to figure out which instance is running on which hardware.  Clouds are virtualization to the extreme: take a request, find available and suitable hardware, fulfill the request, then synchronize with the cloud informing others what transpired.  It's redundant and flexible.

Clouds are great for general compute and storage but anything personal or high security shouldn't go on them.  They're a great way for businesses to flexibly service clients and a way for individuals to not lose documents that would cost a fortune to rebuild but not a big deal if stolen.

About the only cloud I use on a regular basis is Steam Cloud for game save data.  Woe is me when a game doesn't use it and I discover that after the fact (Wolfenstein: The New Order was my latest discovery).


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## Frick (Jul 22, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> Local is faster by far plus you dont ave to worry about a cloud server going down if data is local.



OTOH the (good) providers are guaranteed to have better backup systems than you. Depending a whole lot on the specifics obciously, but I trust Onedrive a whole lot more than my hard drives.



FordGT90Concept said:


> Those aren't clouds, they're servers.
> 
> You can tell something is cloud versus not because when you're running software, you can't point to a specific machine and say "it is running on that one" without doing a lot of research to figure out which instance is running on which hardware.  Clouds are virtualization to the extreme: take a request, find available and suitable hardware, fulfill the request, then synchronize with the cloud informing others what transpired.  It's redundant and flexible.
> 
> ...



I feel like you are talking about the end users perspective and sol's talking about the providers perspective. All of that redundancy and synchronizing has to be defined. It's not a black box.


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## snuif09 (Jul 22, 2019)

I really prefer cloud service for everything since it's safer than local storage when everything goes fubar. Even for gaming I can imagine it will be great for simpler single player games when the latency is cut down. 60ms is not a big deal when playing skyrim for CSGO it would be absolute shit for sure. 



eidairaman1 said:


> plus you dont ave to worry about a cloud server going down if data is local.



I think otherwise with current redundancy in the cloud, if your local system goes bad you are f'ed but when using cloud services it will just fire up another instance. A server might catch fire and you wouldn't even notice with stuff like AWS.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 22, 2019)

snuif09 said:


> I really prefer cloud service for everything since it's safer than local storage when everything goes fubar. Even for gaming I can imagine it will be great for simpler single player games when the latency is cut down. 60ms is not a big deal when playing skyrim for CSGO it would be absolute shit for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> I think otherwise with current redundancy in the cloud, if your local system goes bad you are f'ed but when using cloud services it will just fire up another instance. A server might catch fire and you wouldn't even notice with stuff like AWS.


And what do you do when you don't have an internet connection? Or if your account gets hacked? As for safety, that depends on your perspective. Privacy and data security are a thing.


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## snuif09 (Jul 22, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> And what do you do when you don't have an internet connection? Or if your account gets hacked? As for safety, that depends on your perspective. Privacy and data security are a thing.


Well my internet uptime is as good as my energy grid uptime so that would not matter if it was local or remote. And well yeah if your account gets hacked than you have some other thing to worry about first , like choosing better MFA methods and passwords in general, if you are that careless your local system is likely to be bricked by ransomware as well.

All the what if's for data security also account for local systems.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 22, 2019)

Frick said:


> I feel like you are talking about the end users perspective and sol's talking about the providers perspective. All of that redundancy and synchronizing has to be defined. It's not a black box.











						Definition of CLOUD
					

a visible mass of particles of condensed vapor (such as water or ice) suspended in the atmosphere of a planet (such as the earth) or moon; something resembling or suggesting a cloud: such as; a light filmy, puffy, or billowy mass seeming to float in the air… See the full definition




					www.merriam-webster.com
				





> the computers and connections that support cloud computing


Note the plural forms of the words.  Singular is a server.  Many related servers is a cluster.  A cluster with abstraction (virtualization) is a cloud.


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## Apocalypsee (Jul 22, 2019)

I don't prefer to use cloud storage especially private stuff, the only time I use is to store my work-related documents on Dropbox so I could retrieve them anywhere. For videos I don't mind YouTube, but if there is something I'm gonna watch I prefer it to be on local storage. My country streaming is still poor and a lot of buffering.


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## Solaris17 (Jul 22, 2019)

Frick said:


> I feel like you are talking about the end users perspective and sol's talking about the providers perspective. All of that redundancy and synchronizing has to be defined. It's not a black box.



He’s being difficult he also didn’t read that far head and not figure out I know what the cloud is. That’s the problem with cloud related arguments.


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## silkstone (Jul 22, 2019)

I run my own cloud server from home synced in a few locations. I have a combination of Resilio Sync (a torrent based system) and sftp.
I get a huge amount of storage space along with encrypted nodes/backups at a couple of other locations. It works great for syncing my camera roll as well as having general dropbox like properties.

If I need to share my files with other people, I can copy it over to a file hosting system manually. One of my biggest gripes with cloud storage is the time it take to index the files during each boot, with google drive and dropbox, my files generally aren't ready for 15-30 minutes after a cold boot.


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## Deleted member 158293 (Jul 22, 2019)

For commercial purposes, cloud servers makes work quite a bit easier and is generally accepted practice.  I stay far away from them for personal use though.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 22, 2019)

I have no problem with streaming from the cloud. 

I do not and will not backup any of my sensitive data to the cloud. I do not believe it will get lost. In fact, I believe the opposite - there will quickly become more copies of it everywhere, most that I am not aware of, and many that I cannot delete even if I want to delete it! And I see that as a big problem. 

I do not believe the cloud service providers will EVER be competent enough, or sincere enough to ensure my data is not hacked or compromised by badguys. Another big problem and reason I will not put my stuff there.


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## R-T-B (Jul 22, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> I have no problem with streaming from the cloud.
> 
> I do not and will not backup any of my sensitive data to the cloud. I do not believe it will get lost. In fact, I believe the opposite - there will quickly become more copies of it everywhere, most that I am not aware of, and many that I cannot delete even if I want to delete it! And I see that as a big problem.
> 
> I do not believe the cloud service providers will EVER be competent enough, or sincere enough to ensure my data is not hacked or compromised by badguys. Another big problem and reason I will not put my stuff there.



Ditto here.  I know enough in this field to be afraid of any kind of privacy guarantees.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 22, 2019)

Privacy is one thing. Security it another. If you backup your computer, emails, and other sensitive data to the cloud, there could be account numbers, passwords, social security numbers, phone numbers and addresses in there too.


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## blobster21 (Jul 22, 2019)

My personnal datas are hosted on my own nextcloud instance @ home.

But for work, i have to use Office 365, Onedrive and Teams because my organization is pro Microsoft.

Game streaming is not my cup of tea, neither is video/music streaming, apart from the casual youtube/bandcamp.


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## Sasqui (Jul 22, 2019)

So many use cases!

I've found that having Google Drive installed on a windows platform is extremely useful for business related uses.  Media files are just too large for entertainment uses.

I use Pandora a lot, even though I have over 300GB of personal music ripped from CD's.  Movies are mostly on-demand, or I'll rent at redbox.


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## kapone32 (Jul 22, 2019)

Cloud "server where you don't know who looks at your data, much less who owns it". I am from the old school where everything is local. The only thing I like about anything cloud related is saving my game to the cloud in Steam so that when I do a new Windows build I can continue whatever campaign I am in.


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## Khonjel (Jul 22, 2019)

I like Cloud storage. I've got 50GB free Mega account. Not recommended now though.

Like Cloud saves as well.

Also prefer audio/video stream. Wonder why people voted against that. Anime, youtube, spotify, netflix and pornhub. What would I do without them. Can't see anyone downloading everything to watch/listen locally.


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## Splinterdog (Jul 22, 2019)

I think lex should add "I use both local and cloud."
Personally, I use Google Drive, MS OneDrive and Dropbox, and use their free storage limits where I can, especially for online articles which use multiple images and I can take up where I left off on any PC.
I think most people understand the concept of syncing and that's the crucial aspect you always (or should have) a local copy of your files.
It's come in handy many times when an SD card has corrupted on a mobile phone, for example. At least you have a copy at hand.
In fact, OneDrive gave me an additional Samsung bonus of 100Gb for two years, which when added to the 30Gb I already had, amounted to a very generous amount. However, when it runs out, I'll make sure I have it updated locally.
I'm quite happy to stream Netflix, Prime and IPTV, if that's what's meant by streaming.
In retrospect, many of my customers don't know what I'm talking about when I suggest backing up to the cloud, even though it could have saved their bacon in certain cases.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 22, 2019)

Splinterdog said:


> I think most people understand the concept of syncing


I'm not sure about this. They may know what it is, but I don't believe most know how to do it. And even if they do know how, I bet most don't do it regularly any more than they make regular backups.


Splinterdog said:


> I think lex should add "I use both local and cloud."


At least go back and correct the spelling error!


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## Splinterdog (Jul 22, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> At least go back and correct the spelling error!


Care to elaborate?


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 22, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> At least go back and correct the spelling error!


I don't have an edit button for the text in the poll itself or I would. People know what's being said though.


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## moproblems99 (Jul 22, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> I do not believe the cloud service providers will EVER be competent enough, or sincere enough to ensure my data is not hacked or compromised by badguys. Another big problem and reason I will not put my stuff there.



Beyond that, it is impossible for them to ensure your data will not be hacked or comprised.  Code written by humans is breakable by humans.  Though the far easier route is social engineering.  Nothing is safe out side of your control (or in it in most circumstances) and never will be.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 22, 2019)

Splinterdog said:


> Care to elaborate?


viseo streaming



moproblems99 said:


> Beyond that, it is impossible for them to ensure your data will not be hacked or comprised. Code written by humans is breakable by humans.


Not really the point I was making. 

First, most hackers and badguys are lazy opportunists. They look for easy pickings and if they cannot find any, they move on. With that in mind, BY FAR just about every major hack that ever happened was due to management and administrative negligence. Look at the Equifax hack. The software developers discovered the vulnerability, developed the necessary patch, and distributed it out to its customers several months before Equifax was hacked. Months! Not hours or days. But months! But the Equifax sysadmins never applied it!  That's just negligence and poor or totally absent management oversight.   

On top of that, all that very sensitive data on nearly 1/2 of all Americans that was compromised, to include social security numbers, birth dates, drivers license numbers, account numbers, credit scores, and more  was stored on the Equifax servers in the clear!     Not encrypted at all! That again is pure negligence.

The entire Equifax hack, as well as most other hacks, could have easily been prevented if only the people responsible for administrating and managing (and securing) that network had done their job.

News just today shows Equifax will get the largest fine ever but I seriously doubt it will cause others to straighten out. They probably figure that's what they have insurance for.

So my point about storing my data in the cloud is I simply don't trust the admins to do their jobs. And that is sad.


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## moproblems99 (Jul 22, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> With that in mind, BY FAR just about every major hack that ever happened was due to management and administrative negligence.



I think you'll find that social engineering butts head for out of date software for primary vectors.  That's what compromised RSA.  A security company.



Bill_Bright said:


> So my point about storing my data in the cloud is I simply don't trust the admins to do their jobs. And that is sad.



Don't disagree with your there.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 22, 2019)

Didn't know what to say.

Now I do, I was on the fence but how can anyone be ,I can't now imagine life without clouds.
It's been so damn hot today .


They run so many things I can't avoid it's now pointless trying ,like tracking you , even opted out your often all in ,anonymously of course lolz.

Email, steam , o365, so so many I can't afford to opt out of.


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## R-T-B (Jul 22, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Privacy is one thing. Security it another. If you backup your computer, emails, and other sensitive data to the cloud, there could be account numbers, passwords, social security numbers, phone numbers and addresses in there too.



Privacy and security are like a venn diagram with many crossovers.  Remember everything you just said falls under the realm of "private data" as well.



Bill_Bright said:


> So my point about storing my data in the cloud is I simply don't trust the admins to do their jobs. And that is sad.



Basically this.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 23, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> I think you'll find that social engineering butts head for out of date software for primary vectors.


No argument there. Tricking users into clicking on innocuous-looking, but malicious links is clearly the number one method bad guys use to "distribute" their malware. 

I am just saying if admin have done their jobs and the software was updated on a timely basis or the vulnerability the malware was designed to exploit had already been patched with the already available patches, that malware has essentially been rendered harmless.


R-T-B said:


> Remember everything you just said falls under the realm of "private data" as well.


Just because a car is a vehicle, that does not mean every vehicle is a car. There's a big difference between a Toyota Camry, an 18-wheeler, a 747 and the USS Washington.

Yes, the line between privacy and security is a grayish blur. But tracking my surfing habits violates my privacy. Hacking Equifax or First American Financial Corp (I bet many never even heard of this one) to steal my account numbers, street address, real name, passwords, the _image  of my drivers license_   threatens my security and even that of my family! Big difference. And it is a really big difference when both of those hacks could have easily been prevented - again if only those responsible did their jobs.


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## R-T-B (Jul 23, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Yes, the line between privacy and security is a grayish blur. But tracking my surfing habits violates my privacy. Hacking Equifax or First American Financial Corp (I bet many never even heard of this one) to steal my account numbers, street address, real name, passwords, the _image  of my drivers license_   threatens my security and even that of my family! Big difference. And it is a really big difference when both of those hacks could have easily been prevented - again if only those responsible did their jobs.



That's why I used the Venn Diagram analogy.  It works.


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## John Naylor (Jul 23, 2019)

Having all your data "in / on the cloud" poses two issues:

-Loss of internet access ... how many people are you paying to sit and twiddle their thumbs ?
-Data Security - Everything we create is copyrighted ... hate too think of our designs / work products being sold off or stolen.

Ever been stuck in a house with (3) 16+ ytear olds and a wife w/ no access to internet, cell service  or TV ?  Make sure there's no firearms and if they are , they are securely locked up.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 23, 2019)

John Naylor said:


> Having all your data "in / on the cloud" poses two issues:
> 
> -Loss of internet access ... how many people are you paying to sit and twiddle their thumbs ?
> -Data Security - Everything we create is copyrighted ... hate too think of our designs / work products being sold off or stolen.
> ...


I just left my cousins , he put a spade through the cable wire so they are in that boat.
Cute and funny, him explaining they had electricity for his 10 year old daughters telly but no signal wire, she did not get how a telly can work but not have a signal.
I was going to offer to fix it until I saw where it's cut , should have taken a pic.
A guys coming tomorrow though so np.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 25, 2019)

Splinterdog said:


> I think lex should add "I use both local and cloud."


I would, but the edit button is not there. It's all good, that's why the "Other" option was included.


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## trparky (Jul 25, 2019)

I use Microsoft OneDrive extensively, I keep data there that I absolutely cannot lose or it would be devastating for me to lose it. We're talking vacation photos, mostly. I also keep source code for many of my personal pet projects that I write in VB.NET in Microsoft OneDrive as well; obviously, I wouldn't want to lose my source code either. I also have several shared folders that are shared with other people in my family so as to allow for collaboration, any file put into those folders each of us will be able to see and modify.


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## xtreemchaos (Jul 25, 2019)

kind pointless when we have all the kit at home, I mean I wouldn't buy a dog and bark myself


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## sneekypeet (Jul 25, 2019)

Poll typo addressed. 

As to the thread, please keep to the topic.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 27, 2019)

trparky said:


> I use Microsoft OneDrive extensively, I keep data there that I absolutely cannot lose or it would be devastating for me to lose it. We're talking vacation photos, mostly. I also keep source code for many of my personal pet projects that I write in VB.NET in Microsoft OneDrive as well; obviously, I wouldn't want to lose my source code either. I also have several shared folders that are shared with other people in my family so as to allow for collaboration, any file put into those folders each of us will be able to see and modify.


Ah, but you could very easily use DVDR/BDR optical media or even external HDD/SSD options, making use of the cloud in your case a choice not a necessity.


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## trparky (Jul 27, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ah, but you could very easily use DVDR/BDR optical media or even external HDD/SSD options, making use of the cloud in your case a choice not a necessity.


What if I have some kind of disaster? Theft? Fire? Other natural disaster?


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 27, 2019)

trparky said:


> What if I have some kind of disaster? Theft? Fire? Other natural disaster?


Safe deposit box. I also have backups in my storage unit.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 27, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Safe deposit box


^^^This^^^ 

I keep a backup copy of all my important files (including my password manager and password database) on a HD and a couple thumb drives in a safe deposit box at my bank. And I keep the originals of other important documents too, like birth certificates, divorce documents, marriage license, DD Form 214, SSN cards, will, emergency cash, vehicle titles, deed to the house, "Final instructions" for my kids when I die, and more there too. 

I have the next to the smallest box and it costs just $45 per year. That's a serious bargain, IMO. And note in some cases, that fee is tax deductible. 

IMO, every adult should have a safe off-site storage location for such stuff just in case of some kind of disaster. And I can think of no better place than a safe deposit box at a bank or credit union.


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## xtreemchaos (Jul 27, 2019)

im not Paraniod "at the moment" but I have backup drives for my backup drives   ...


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## 64K (Jul 27, 2019)

I keep my important files, photos, etc on my home PC's, a USB drive in my safe deposit box and on my work PC. The possibility of my house, my bank and my office at work burning to the ground at the same time don't seem likely to me.


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## windwhirl (Jul 27, 2019)

64K said:


> I keep my important files, photos etc on my home PC's, a USB drive in my safe deposit box and on my work PC. The possibility of my house, my bank and my office at work burning to the ground at the same time don't seem likely to me.



A few years ago I found my boss saved some pictures on his work computer and the office server. He gave me a similar answer when I asked about it.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 27, 2019)

Not all businesses support employees storing personal files on business computers - nor should they, IMO. It could set the business and business owner/executives up to some serious liability issues should some of those personal files turn out to contain illegal information, images, etc. 

Even just the possibility the employee files may contain malware should be enough incentive for bosses to disallow it. This would be especially pertinent if the company computers contain customer's personal information, like credit card numbers.


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## moproblems99 (Jul 27, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> I keep a backup copy of all my important files (including my password manager and password database) on a HD and a couple thumb drives in a safe deposit box at my bank.



Ah, safe deposit boxes.  Just reading an article about how they aren't actually safe.

They are like the cloud of the physical good storage world.  Well, as close to the cloud as you can get.


----------



## 64K (Jul 27, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Ah, safe deposit boxes.  Just reading an article about how they aren't actually safe.
> 
> They are like the cloud of the physical good storage world.  Well, as close to the cloud as you can get.



I'm curious. Could you link the article please.


----------



## Vayra86 (Jul 27, 2019)

I think you can doubt every method of storage, because that is what cloud always really means, its just another way to store data and use it.

For myself I don't see the purpose of cloud whatsoever. The requirement of an active internet connection that is subject to all sorts of variables (you cannot control) is something I don't like about it. The only real advantage of internet is that its more care-free - you give away responsibility of care over data (in part) to a service provider. I've been taught its good to maintain control and be as independent as possible, cloud does not fit that agenda very well. And with that control comes responsibility and with that comes a consciousness and learning curve about storing data. I think those are valuable lessons.

Its the same as relying entirely on car navigation. If the sucker fails, you're screwed. I really like the idea of still being able to read a map properly. And I can still lose the map somewhere, but then its my _own_ fault. A problem with technology is that we keep stacking more and more blocks on top of another, and in some way each block is required to keep the tower intact. So its good to know how to work with the basics.

On a higher level, a more long term consideration for me is that companies should not hold too much of our data, out of our sight and direct control. Information is power. That being said I do understand why companies use cloud services, because good & reliable services benefit from scale, and a single enterprise can never get to a scale like for example Azure has on offer today. And if they could, it'd be core business.


----------



## moproblems99 (Jul 27, 2019)

64K said:


> I'm curious. Could you link the article please.



I'll have to see if I can find it.  I don't have a clue where I was reading it.

Edit:

This wasn't the same article that I read but it has similar information: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/business/safe-deposit-box-theft.html

In the grand scheme of things, it appears safe deposit boxes are about as safe as BTC.  That said, you ought to know what contract your are signing.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jul 28, 2019)

I don't feel that safe deposit box story fairly illustrates how safe they really are. There are always exceptions to the rule and this bank error clearly was one of those - and no doubt, a pretty extreme exception too.

And of course, that story has nothing to do with failing to protect your data/valuables from tornadoes, hurricanes, fires and floods.

No safe can guarantee with 100% certainty it can protect, forever, its contents. But I sure would trust a bank safe deposit box over the cloud, my neighbor's house, my kids' houses, or even the other side of my own house. If you know of one more secure than inside the vault at your local bank, I would be interested in learning about it.

And besides, as I noted above, I said to a "copy" of the important files there. Every backup policy should include multiple backup copies of your data. Not just one. And preferably, at least one copy should be "off-site". Definitely the only backup should NOT be on a USB hard drive sitting on your computer desk, or a thumb drive sitting in your computer desk drawer. 



moproblems99 said:


> In the grand scheme of things, it appears safe deposit boxes are about as safe as BTC.


Yeah right!


----------



## Vayra86 (Jul 29, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> I don't feel that safe deposit box story fairly illustrates how safe they really are. There are always exceptions to the rule and this bank error clearly was one of those - and no doubt, a pretty extreme exception too.
> 
> And of course, that story has nothing to do with failing to protect your data/valuables from tornadoes, hurricanes, fires and floods.
> 
> ...



Absolutely right there is a difference and it is often overlooked in our digital reality... but a physical presence is one you can touch, break into, send an angry mob towards, etc. A cloud based solution is gone before you can say 'wait! my stuff is in there'.

Totally different degrees of control. While data in the cloud may never get truly lost, what point is that advantage if you can not access it when push comes to shove?



moproblems99 said:


> In the grand scheme of things, it appears safe deposit boxes are about as safe as BTC.  That said, you ought to know what contract your are signing.



There is no grand scheme, there is only you and your own data. The rest is irrelevant in our context, right? BTC is the least secure of them all. Not only is it cloud, but its also comprised of air. Its existence is only justified because a bunch of people think its a good idea, not because it is tied to the real economy in any tangible way. Or put differently, we could lose BTC and all crypto tomorrow and nobody would give a damn. There will be no government stepping in to pick up the scraps, no compensation, no nothing and all other wheels in the economy keep turning. So you had a wallet, secure and well managed... external factors can instantly turn it into garbage data.


Important note: these are also all great reasons to keep our physical currencies. Banks are steadily pushing to full digitalization of currency. Word of the wise: take every necessary step to prevent that from happening. Its great leverage you won't want to lose.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 29, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> Important note: these are also all great reasons to keep our physical currencies. Banks are steadily pushing to full digitalization of currency. Word of the wise: take every necessary step to prevent that from happening. Its great leverage you won't want to lose.


Literally could not agree more.


----------



## svan71 (Aug 14, 2019)

If your privacy is of any concern using cloud based anything requires a degree of trust I simply do not posses.


----------



## John Naylor (Aug 14, 2019)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I just left my cousins , he put a spade through the cable wire so they are in that boat.
> Cute and funny, him explaining they had electricity for his 10 year old daughters telly but no signal wire, she did not get how a telly can work but not have a signal.
> I was going to offer to fix it until I saw where it's cut , should have taken a pic.
> A guys coming tomorrow though so np.



Cute story .... but dad can spend time and entertain his daughter.   I have the same issue w/ TC with satellite so we're giving it up.  As soon as i figure out how to stream SEC Foorball, it's gone.

But it's another thing when you have 3-4 employees sitting around ... it's a double loss.  You are losing billing rates for $60 - $180 and hour and you still have to pay them salary, benefits, FICA, Workman's Comp, etec, etc.



lexluthermiester said:


> Ah, but you could very easily use DVDR/BDR optical media or even external HDD/SSD options, making use of the cloud in your case a choice not a necessity.





lexluthermiester said:


> Safe deposit box. I also have backups in my storage unit.



I have a fire safe but the combination + key is a PITA.   I store off site.... every case should come with a plug in backplane for hot swap storage and a external drive bay to make this simple.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 15, 2019)

svan71 said:


> If your privacy is of any concern using cloud based anything requires a degree of trust I simply do not posses.


Right there with you.


John Naylor said:


> I have a fire safe but the combination + key is a PITA. I store off site...


That's a good idea.

Looking at the progress of the poll, an interesting pattern has emerged. There seems to be a great deal of variety of response across the entries spectrum of usage scenario's, from "love it" to "hate it". The middle ground is the most interesting as it's seemingly all over the place. Very interesting indeed.


----------



## Boatvan (Aug 15, 2019)

Though this is a purely enterprise point of view, I have mixed views on the move to cloud/vendor-hosted solutions. 

For legacy applications that were hosted on site at my place of work, I welcome an upgrade to vendor-hosted/cloud versions because the old ones were out of date and were a burden for us in the IT department when something broke. Moving to the cloud/vendor-hosted in my experience has improved simplicity for both our users and, more importantly, us in the IT dept. An added bonus is that the people hosting/maintaining the application are the ones who wrote it. So they can patch without bothering us and we have some confidence in their abilities. 

On the other hand, having Active Directory in the cloud is a notion that scares me. I feel better for things like that being on site. Perhaps it is my lack of experience with Azure AD, but I wouldn't like if that went down for some reason and there wouldn't be anything I could do about it. I think mission critical stuff can stay on prem for now.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 2, 2019)

Boatvan said:


> On the other hand, having Active Directory in the cloud is a notion that scares me. I feel better for things like that being on site. Perhaps it is my lack of experience with Azure AD, but I wouldn't like if that went down for some reason and there wouldn't be anything I could do about it. I think mission critical stuff can stay on prem for now.


Been told that data loss can happen if the connection doesn't stay active. This another aspect of cloud storage that worries me.


----------



## Boatvan (Sep 2, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Been told that data loss can happen if the connection doesn't stay active. This another aspect of cloud storage that worries me.


That does not give me warm fuzzies if you know what I mean... We have a cloud directory in Gsuite that syncs with AD nightly. Connection issues put a halt to this. If we ever get to a place where it can cache changes as a guaranteed fail safe,  I'd feel better. I honestly do not know much about cloud AD, but off the bat the notion is terrifying.


----------



## Solaris17 (Sep 2, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Been told that data loss can happen if the connection doesn't stay active. This another aspect of cloud storage that worries me.



Not sure by who.



Boatvan said:


> That does not give me warm fuzzies if you know what I mean... We have a cloud directory in Gsuite that syncs with AD nightly. Connection issues put a halt to this. If we ever get to a place where it can cache changes as a guaranteed fail safe,  I'd feel better. I honestly do not know much about cloud AD, but off the bat the notion is terrifying.



Azure AD is for the _most_ part authentication only/MDM/SSO. Azure AD doesnt do GPO services so most environments link local DCs to the azure AD service. AFAIK in cases of link failure the local DC (since it is the one incrementing) is always authoritative. So Azure AD almost runs like a readonly-DC with out the usefulness of GPOs or software deployments.


----------



## Boatvan (Sep 2, 2019)

@Solaris17 I defer to more knowledgeable folks (like yourself) on that. If that is the case, I don't see too many issues then. 

I do present this then: Why switch? What is the benefit for the enterprise subscribing? Legit want to know. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Solaris17 (Sep 2, 2019)

Boatvan said:


> @Solaris17 I defer to more knowledgeable folks (like yourself) on that. If that is the case, I don't see too many issues then.
> 
> I do present this then: Why switch? What is the benefit for the enterprise subscribing? Legit want to know. Thanks in advance.



Honestly, I couldnt answer. I rely on GPO and other advanced AD functions to run business. From what I've seen though personally via the azure ad cp (I linked my local DCs) it works like a competitor to google cloud domain (or whatever the GP domain service is called). It appears to be geared for mobile workforce. You can configure MDM and SSO and give access privileges for things like onedrive for biz sharepoint and o365. It also provides remote device wipe etc.

In that regard there are a lot of smb and decentralized software dev companies that would probably benefit from this approach. Its just not aimed at like internal corps; though some of the platform access is useful if you have one or two people traveling and need some resources, since instead of deploying a VPN on a field users laptop you can point them to azure AD and they can access docs and other 365 umbrella stuff without the need to stand up an internal VPN server or direct access server for remote docs.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Boatvan (Sep 2, 2019)

Solaris17 said:


> Honestly, I couldnt answer. I rely on GPO and other advanced AD functions to run business. From what I've seen though personally via the azure ad cp (I linked my local DCs) it works like a competitor to google cloud domain (or whatever the GP domain service is called). It appears to be geared for mobile workforce. You can configure MDM and SSO and give access privileges for things like onedrive for biz sharepoint and o365. It also provides remote device wipe etc.
> 
> In that regard there are a lot of smb and decentralized software dev companies that would probably benefit from this approach. Its just not aimed at like internal corps; though some of the platform access is useful if you have one or two people traveling and need some resources, since instead of deploying a VPN on a field users laptop you can point them to azure AD and they can access docs and other 365 umbrella stuff without the need to stand up an internal VPN server or direct access server for remote docs.
> 
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Thanks for the info. I work in a public school district and as I mentioned before, we are a Google district. For my use-case, this won't benefit us.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 2, 2019)

Solaris17 said:


> Not sure by who.


Clients mainly.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Sep 3, 2019)

Solaris17 said:


> Not sure by who.


Me either. Why? Because "the cloud" (at least by all the major providers) is not just one location (or "single point of failure"). When something is saved to the cloud, backup copies are created and multiple copies are immediately "propagated" literally around the globe. In fact, I said this on this forum several times before that one of my own personal concerns about cloud storage is not that my data will get lost, but that one of the many copies will be hacked! And that's why I never put my clients' billing information out there. I don't fear it getting lost - I just don't trust cloud storage to keep the data "secure". The lesson there is always encrypt your files before putting them out there.

I have used cloud storage to temporarily save files I wanted to share with others and when I put something there, I could always easily see the copy made it out there in tact. And of course, operating systems don't delete a source file until it verifies the destination file "moved" (cut and pasted) correctly. If "copied" (instead of moved), then of course, the source file is still there anyway. 

Even with "cloud content collaboration" software that lets users in different locations edit the same document in the cloud, if one person deletes that document, it (and several previous versions) can easily be recovered.

So if the person copies something to the cloud, then immediately deletes the source file and "wipes" their drives, multiple copies and backups are already "out there" and can be recovered. I am NOT saying a file cannot be lost. I am saying if a client reports data loss, it was due to "user error" and not the fault of the cloud.


----------



## FinneousPJ (Sep 3, 2019)

It's a multifaceted issue.

At work cloud storage is great.

At times video/audio streaming is a convenience; at others it's not.

Game streaming I have not tried yet. I assume it would suffer from lag.

In general I do not use cloud services for my personal stuff. I do use it for work and school.


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## Steevo (Sep 3, 2019)

There is no cloud, it's just someone else's computer. I have full control of my computer, and almost no control of theirs.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 3, 2019)

Steevo said:


> There is no cloud, it's just someone else's computer.


I would not call someone else's computer a viable "cloud" solution. That's just someone sharing access to their computer. A real cloud "service" has multiple data centers across the globe, each with racks and racks of computers working in concert. Big difference.


----------



## trparky (Sep 3, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> I would not call someone else's computer a viable "cloud" solution. That's just someone sharing access to their computer. A real cloud "service" has multiple data centers across the globe, each with racks and racks of computers working in concert. Big difference.


He's boiling it down to a simple statement. He's referring to the idea that the cloud is a computer (or groups of computers) that you, yourself, don't own and don't have control over. It stems from the idea that if you don't control it, don't trust it. However, we can't think like that anymore. If we go by that very strict kind of thinking the Internet itself wouldn't work. Your data passes through God knows how many systems as it travels the globe, you have to have some kind of trust or you wouldn't use the Internet.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Sep 3, 2019)

trparky said:


> Your data passes through God knows how many systems...


Passing through is a totally different concept than users purposely storing their data out there - as if it were another drive attached to their systems.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 3, 2019)

Steevo said:


> There is no cloud, it's just someone else's computer. I have full control of my computer, and almost no control of theirs.


Very well said!


----------



## Bill_Bright (Sep 3, 2019)

Cloud is just a marketing term. If you want to get literal, then sure, there is no cloud. But is that the point? No. 

The point of "the cloud" is there is a "place" (regardless the fact it is "virtual") where data is stored that can be accessed from any device with Internet access. 

Whether you trust the cloud to store your data or not is an individual decision. But many individuals and companies do - and without problems. Me? Again I do trust the cloud to not lose my data. I just don't trust it to keep it secure. So (partly due to my age) it is likely I will never in my lifetime store any personal or sensitive files out there I would not want the bad guys to get ahold of.


----------



## AvrageGamr (Sep 3, 2019)

Love it. Storage, fantastic. Not every pic or vid I take with my cell I want to stick on a hd. Who doesn't use some sort of online storage nowadays? Not every piece of data is worth buying a hd to store it on. Audio, video streaming also takes less space on my hd.


----------



## P4-630 (Sep 9, 2019)




----------



## Vayra86 (Dec 9, 2022)

AvrageGamr said:


> Love it. Storage, fantastic. Not every pic or vid I take with my cell I want to stick on a hd. Who doesn't use some sort of online storage nowadays? Not every piece of data is worth buying a hd to store it on. Audio, video streaming also takes less space on my hd.


I don't, except for e-mail, with a specific reason: you don't want it locally, because you want access to it everywhere. You can't store email offline and use it. This is a marked difference with entertainment/content, audio video or picture.

Every time I did use cloud storage, it would end up somehow changed by the time I wanted to re-use it. Google cloud is like that. Policies and processes change all the time, they rename or merge apps, etc. That was confirmation of gut feeling: you don't want to leave anything in another company's hands. That's not even considering the technical problem of privacy. If you put it on cloud, you just don't know if you have it anymore.

The real question is why would you keep saving all those crappy cell phone photo's of which the better half is probably meme material or just utterly horrible to look at or originated from a Whatsapp folder. Somehow we've gone from selecting every photo by hand (non digital photography) to mass collection of the most useless crap 'because why not'.

Well, that's why not. Its time to question and re-evaluate all those silly demands we've convinced ourselves of. They're utterly wasteful and they're a way to make you depend on services.


----------



## kapone32 (Dec 9, 2022)

Every Year I get an email from Asus to take advantage of 100GB of Cloud storage and I have never used it. Then there is One Drive that I wish I could turn off completely but Windows is just as guilty as the rest of them of trying to goad you into storing data outside of your own array. It is my opinion that MBs have PCIe lanes, SATA ports and M2 slots for exactly that reason. Of course the narrative has been such that people have been conditioned to having themselves exposed to the Internet like it is inert with no regard. When I think of the Cloud I think of MMO Games that you can no longer play.


----------



## Vayra86 (Dec 9, 2022)

kapone32 said:


> Every Year I get an email from Asus to take advantage of 100GB of Cloud storage and I have never used it. Then there is One Drive that I wish I could turn off completely but Windows is just as guilty as the rest of them of trying to goad you into storing data outside of your own array. It is my opinion that MBs have PCIe lanes, SATA ports and M2 slots for exactly that reason. Of course the narrative has been such that people have been conditioned to having themselves exposed to the Internet like it is inert with no regard. When I think of the Cloud I think of MMO Games that you can no longer play.


You can kill Onedrive completely, just uninstall it.


----------



## Frick (Dec 9, 2022)

Vayra86 said:


> I don't, except for e-mail.
> 
> Every time I did use cloud storage, it would end up somehow changed by the time I wanted to re-use it. Google cloud is like that. Policies and processes change all the time, they rename or merge apps, etc. That was confirmation of gut feeling: you don't want to leave anything in another company's hands. That's not even considering the technical problem of privacy. If you put it on cloud, you just don't know if you have it anymore.
> 
> ...


There is a lot of stuff that annoys me in this post, but the only thing I will say is this: You may take tons of shitty lolmemes with your phone but some of us do not.

I will also say this: you are weak for not rolling your own email.


----------



## Bomby569 (Dec 9, 2022)

kapone32 said:


> Every Year I get an email from Asus to take advantage of 100GB of Cloud storage and I have never used it. Then there is One Drive that I wish I could turn off completely but Windows is just as guilty as the rest of them of trying to goad you into storing data outside of your own array. It is my opinion that MBs have PCIe lanes, SATA ports and M2 slots for exactly that reason. Of course the narrative has been such that people have been conditioned to having themselves exposed to the Internet like it is inert with no regard. When I think of the Cloud I think of MMO Games that you can no longer play.



one email a year, lucky bastard. They got my email 10 years ago, and i've been receiving that stuff every couple of months ever since. Not once did i joined, not even for free. They are relentless


----------



## P4-630 (Dec 9, 2022)

I'm getting email spammed by Asus cloud services....


----------



## kapone32 (Dec 9, 2022)

Vayra86 said:


> You can kill Onedrive completely, just uninstall it.


Even when it says that it is uninstalled it seems that Windows 10/11 actually runs at least the drivers for that in the background and may be the top layer on your storage array. In Windows 7 there was no issue swapping drives but with 11 especially you have to use a program like Disk Wizard or Miray to get a drive that has Windows installed on it formatted to the point where it removes those 2 files that reside on Windows boot drives. Even RAID 0 drives have to use a program to format them properly if you separate the array in Windows 11. I may be wrong but something caused me not be able to play Forza Horizon after upgrading to Windows 11 without re-downloading it. One thing I do is only save files to this PC when installing Windows but it seems Onedrive is built into Windows OS and stores at least your Gamepass credentials as I can't even access the files and the folder is hidden.


----------



## ThrashZone (Dec 9, 2022)

Hi,
Nice 2019 necro and the poll is still live


----------



## P4-630 (Dec 9, 2022)

Vayra86 said:


> You can kill Onedrive completely, just uninstall it.



Don't remember how I did it exactly but at least it's completely disabled on my systems....


----------



## ThrashZone (Dec 9, 2022)

Hi,
Updates tend to reinstall onedrive and now teams if you have office installed.


----------



## Vayra86 (Dec 9, 2022)

Frick said:


> There is a lot of stuff that annoys me in this post, but the only thing I will say is this: *You may take tons of shitty lolmemes with your phone* but some of us do not.
> 
> I will also say this: you are weak for not rolling your own email.


So if you do take _non shitty important pictures_ you want to save, why do you *not* want to have them stored locally? I'm genuinely interested now in that rationale.

Email, is more of an acquired taste. I'm still on the very same hotmail account I made when I was 13. I'll agree right away that this is cloud, too... At the same time, marked differences because functionally Hotmail has been identical, or near identical for the last two decades and then some; and remained free. Cloud storage is not quite so stable in general.

Feel free to point out everything else that annoys you, this is a 'how do you feel about' topic... I honestly don't mind and please do point out my hypocrisy in this too. I might learn a thing 



kapone32 said:


> Even when it says that it is uninstalled it seems that Windows 10/11 actually runs at least the drivers for that in the background and may be the top layer on your storage array. In Windows 7 there was no issue swapping drives but with 11 especially you have to use a program like Disk Wizard or Miray to get a drive that has Windows installed on it formatted to the point where it removes those 2 files that reside on Windows boot drives. Even RAID 0 drives have to use a program to format them properly if you separate the array in Windows 11. I may be wrong but something caused me not be able to play Forza Horizon after upgrading to Windows 11 without re-downloading it. One thing I do is only save files to this PC when installing Windows but it seems Onedrive is built into Windows OS and stores at least your Gamepass credentials as I can't even access the files and the folder is hidden.


On W10 I don't see this at all. I do know its a persistent motherfucker on 11.

I even checked services, and there's not a single one running.








ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Updates tend to reinstall onedrive and now teams if you have office installed.


Office is another such item I would gladly omit from my Windows OS... its a commercial tool and like you say opts in on other services and before you know it, you're stuck with the whole shebang. There is OpenOffice...

Luckily I still have an Office XP Pro...  Still works a charm, does everything it needs to... and _stays identical. _Also no ribbons. Aaahhhhh glorious. Although I gotta say the ribbons are something to get used to, and when you do, they're okay, ish.



Bill_Bright said:


> Cloud is just a marketing term. If you want to get literal, then sure, there is no cloud. But is that the point? No.
> 
> The point of "the cloud" is there is a "place" (regardless the fact it is "virtual") where data is stored that can be accessed from any device with Internet access.
> 
> Whether you trust the cloud to store your data or not is an individual decision. But many individuals and companies do - and without problems. Me? Again I do trust the cloud to not lose my data. I just don't trust it to keep it secure. So (partly due to my age) it is likely I will never in my lifetime store any personal or sensitive files out there I would not want the bad guys to get ahold of.


Yep... technically I trust the cloud... But technical perspective isn't reality and certainly not security.


----------



## claes (Dec 9, 2022)

Who’s to say you can’t do both? I keep important stuff locally, then backup to my NAS, and keep a final backup in the cloud (which is in and of itself redundant).


----------



## ThrashZone (Dec 9, 2022)

Vayra86 said:


> Office is another such item I would gladly omit from my Windows OS... its a commercial tool and like you say opts in on other services and before you know it, you're stuck with the whole shebang. There is OpenOffice...
> 
> Luckily I still have an Office XP Pro...  Still works a charm, does everything it needs to... and _stays identical. _Also no ribbons. Aaahhhhh glorious. Although I gotta say the ribbons are something to get used to, and when you do, they're okay, ish.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Yep got a couple cheap office 2016 pro licenses off godeals24 a while back for x299 and z490 rigs my other x99 machine has office 2007 small business I had it on x299 to but ms eat the license changing mother boards to much on x299 
I think I went through 4 x299 boards before I found a decent one being the apex dirt cheap on ebay.

2007 office is the first version with the ribbon so I'm sort of used to it so 2016 isn't much different but seeing both copies were only about 30-40.us it's


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 10, 2022)

kapone32 said:


> Then there is One Drive that I wish I could turn off completely


You can, uninstall OneDrive. It's that simple.


----------



## windwhirl (Dec 10, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> You can, uninstall OneDrive. It's that simple.





And for a change of routine, compared to other Microsoft apps, nothing complicated to it, just go the app list and use the Uninstall option.


----------



## Frick (Dec 13, 2022)

Vayra86 said:


> So if you do take _non shitty important pictures_ you want to save, why do you *not* want to have them stored locally? I'm genuinely interested now in that rationale.



Onedrive = automatic sync between systems without hassle or any kind of admin on my part. Sync to cloud from phone, download to Onedrive locally on the desktop. And I meant i do not have a metric shitton of bad pics, I have a moderate amount of nice pics, so those 100GB will last a good long while.


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## Vayra86 (Dec 13, 2022)

Frick said:


> Onedrive = automatic sync between systems without hassle or any kind of admin on my part. Sync to cloud from phone, download to Onedrive locally on the desktop. And I meant i do not have a metric shitton of bad pics, I have a moderate amount of nice pics, so those 100GB will last a good long while.


Understood and I also did experience Onedrive. Its not bad, among cloud storage on Windows certainly among the best. But 100GB... thats 10% space on a regular sized current SSD even. Thats what, 10-12 bucks worth of local space. Of course onedrives dont go bad. But still...


----------



## Steevo (Dec 13, 2022)

There is no cloud, it’s just someone else’s computer.


----------



## bobbybluz (Dec 13, 2022)

I'm old and still will never trust anything critical to something I can't physically touch if I want to. When doing A/V production I also make redundant backups while doing the projects.


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## Bill_Bright (Dec 13, 2022)

Steevo said:


> There is no cloud, it’s just someone else’s computer.


And the big pipes between them. I just - like 30 minutes ago - was watching a Science Channel show on deep sea, transoceanic telecommunications cables. And they had some VP at Google explain how 98% of the worlds data is constantly being moved about between global industries/companies (including cloud/data centers), banks, governments, stock exchanges and individuals via deep sea fiber cables. It is multiple petabytes every second. 

I trust the cloud will never lose my data. I don't trust the cloud will never be hacked. In fact, IMO, it is when, not if it will be hacked.


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## claes (Dec 13, 2022)

Of course the cloud will be hacked, it has been multiple times. But when you have multiple, redundant servers, some offline, you simply patch and restore.

Of course that kind of redundancy is pricy, but following the 3-2-1 method, what’s better — one offline backup stored off-site that’s updated every now and again or multiple, online and off-site backups that are updated at will? Obvs “both” is best, but if you have to choose, and for practicality’s sake, the cloud has some advantages.

More, given the multi-billion dollar industry that is the cloud, there’s a level of insurance you’ll never get if someone steals or hacks your personal off-site backup. It’s one user vs another without the cloud, with the cloud it’s some hacking group vs thousands of white hats, billions in investment, and state and capital interests. There’s a reason banks and the like use the cloud rather than relying on their own IT team.


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## Frick (Dec 13, 2022)

Steevo said:


> There is no cloud, it’s just someone else’s computer.



Microsoft is much better at handling storage than me.



Vayra86 said:


> Understood and I also did experience Onedrive. Its not bad, among cloud storage on Windows certainly among the best. But 100GB... thats 10% space on a regular sized current SSD even. Thats what, 10-12 bucks worth of local space. Of course onedrives dont go bad. But still...



See above. Not enough for universal backup, of course, but really important things, and for sharing big files it's ace.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 13, 2022)

Frick said:


> See above. Not enough for universal backup, of course, but really important things, and for sharing big files it's ace.



So I wrote something on this god over a decade ago I think. I actually have a pretty legit trick if I do say so.

So with onedrive it duplicates all your stuff right? It creates a onedrive folder then has a preset list of user folders it copies to them, then it syncs those copies online.

So what I do to save space and backup more is I set one drive to be on a separate drive, I dont mean partition I mean separate drive.

Then I go into the user folder C:\users\usernamehere

These house all the core folders the account needs for windows to function. If you right click on these and select properties you will find an added "location" tab in which you can set where these folders exist.

Now folder redirection isnt new by any stretch, the key here is to change the location to INSIDE the onedrive folder on my other disk. You see when setting up one drive it asks you and provides a list of folders to backup, but this is just a user experience thing. EVERYTHING inside the onedrive folder gets backed up no matter what.

Once I redirect all the folders all my shit syncs down or up all the time. Onedrive also has versions by default. deleted? ransomware? just restore the previous version.

Everytime I format, nothing is on my OS drive. I just blow it away. Install windows, signin to one drive, redirect my user folders, all my shits back.

Second data drive gets wiped? It doesnt matter! You just have to download it all instead of having a local copy, but since your folders were initially redirected you still never lost a thing because it always sync'd


Anyway im crazy off topic. Listen. Users on this forum, in this thread and in life in general have TERRIBLE hygeine when it comes to patches and updates. Of COURSE cloud providers are going to get hacked and targeted, thats the dumbest shit I have ever read. Unless you are diligent in your patching of your device firmware and have a solid backup plan as far as security is in general (not in the sense of data per se) cloud providers run much more secure than any of your things at home. EVEN THEN the things at home are on slower security patch cycles than any enterprise software or gear so you are already behind the curve.


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## ThrashZone (Dec 13, 2022)

Hi,
I always have offline backup copies not to mention different machines with the same files so I sure don't need third party cloud storage scrutiny of my files which is the best part of cloud your files are now theirs that own and hack the cloud 
And if I did I'd just create my own cloud sure like my terms of use and penalties better than theirs


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 14, 2022)

Steevo said:


> There is no cloud, it’s just someone else’s computer.


Exactly. Someone else's computer you ultimately have ZERO control over.. Can't trust what you can't control.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 14, 2022)

claes said:


> This is exactly why it’s a poor comparison.


It was



Bill_Bright said:


> Time to move on.



Agreed play time is over you two.


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## sLowEnd (Dec 14, 2022)

I avoid cloud whenever possible. It can be convenient in some cases, but I never use cloud as the sole repository for anything important. I might use it to share some temporary notes, memes, or things of that sort.


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## trparky (Dec 16, 2022)

I use it as offsite backups for things like pictures from my vacations and of family that I simply can't lose.


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