# [FUD]  AMD’s answer to Fermi is Trillian - Specs?



## nt300 (Feb 18, 2010)

*Current HD 5870 specs*
1600 Stream Processing Units 
80 Texture Units 
128 Z/Stencil ROP Units 
32 Color ROP Units 
1GB GDDR5 @ 256-Bit

*Current Dual-GPU HD 5970 specs*
3200 Stream Processing Units 
160 Texture Units 
256 Z/Stencil ROP Units 
64 Color ROP Units
2GB GDDR5 @ (256-Bit x 2)

*Possible AMD Trillian specs to take on Nvidia’s Fermi*
2400 Stream Processing Units 
120 Texture Units 
192 Z/Stencil ROP Units 
48 Color ROP Units 
1536MB GDDR5 @ 384-Bit

*Looks slower than HD 5970 but will AMD create a Dual-GPU card with this Trillian?*
4800 Stream Processing Units 
240 Texture Units 
348 Z/Stencil ROP Units 
96 Color ROP Units 
3072MB GDDR5 @ (384-Bit x 2)

I assume this beast will have slower clock speeds to keep the heat and power low.

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17720/34/

*Nvidia's Fermi GTX480 is broken and unfixable
Hot, slow, late and unmanufacturable*
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/02/17/nvidias-fermigtx480-broken-and-unfixable/


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## assaulter_99 (Feb 18, 2010)

Haha! Thats the best chance amd has got in many many years, if they don't win this generation, then they'll never win. they even had the time to counter whatever there will be @ launch, this seems to be the answer... That may be ati's ace!


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## erocker (Feb 18, 2010)

It's fud. Hey according to this FUD article at Semi Accurate, we may never see Fermi. http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/02/17/nvidias-fermigtx480-broken-and-unfixable/ Broken and unfixable? If taken literally there would be no Fermi. Unless they are going to sell broken Fermi's? I heard this Trillian name before the 5 series launch, it should be interesting. Of course you get the word "tri" out of trillian. Perahps a 3 gpu card? ATi and Asus made a three GPU already.


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## Fourstaff (Feb 18, 2010)

At 2400 stream, it sounds like 3X800. Btw, we are still waiting for Fermi, so we might never see Fermi in theory.


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## assaulter_99 (Feb 18, 2010)

Just read that article, worrying times for nvidia if these are remotely accurate. Knowing tsmc's run, that article can stand. Thats bad for competition if they don't come out with something. Time for nvidia to start another rebranding rofl.


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## Charper2013 (Feb 18, 2010)

I hope Fermi comes soon so the 5*** series prices will drop. If nvidia gives up prices will be through the roof.


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## Charper2013 (Feb 18, 2010)

erocker said:


> It's fud. Hey according to this FUD article at Semi Accurate, we may never see Fermi. http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/02/17/nvidias-fermigtx480-broken-and-unfixable/ Broken and unfixable? If taken literally there would be no Fermi. Unless they are going to sell broken Fermi's? I heard this Trillian name before the 5 series launch, it should be interesting. Of course you get the word "tri" out of trillian. Perahps a 3 gpu card? ATi and Asus made a three GPU already.









There she is. 3850x3 from Asus.


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## [Ion] (Feb 18, 2010)

Charper2013 said:


> http://img.techpowerup.org/100218/0028.jpg
> 
> There she is. 3850x3 from Asus.



Ooh, that looks awesome (although I'm sure a HD5850 would stomp it).  Link?


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## Goodman (Feb 18, 2010)

3850 tri-gpu

http://hothardware.com/News/Asus_Trinity_TriGPU_Graphics_Prototype_Benched/


As for the article of the OP... like said eroker it's fudz...enough said


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## KainXS (Feb 18, 2010)

I hope nvidia can do something, if nvidia can't get fermi out soon amd won't need an answer, and everything will get thrown off like when amd couldn't catch up to nvidia back in the G80 days.

. . . . . 

and I wanna get a HD5870 cheap


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## Goodman (Feb 18, 2010)

KainXS said:


> I hope nvidia can do something, if nvidia can't get fermi out soon amd won't need an answer, and everything will get thrown off like when amd couldn't catch up to nvidia back in the G80 days.



Nvidia will get Fermi out in mars it may also beat the 5870 or 5970 but it be short live , ATI should have another card out not to long after wich should outperform Fermi...

Don't be shy about the 5870 say it out loud , it's a great card...


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## Deleted member 3 (Feb 18, 2010)

Charper2013 said:


> http://img.techpowerup.org/100218/0028.jpg
> 
> There she is. 3850x3 from Asus.



Those are MXM chips though.


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## assaulter_99 (Feb 18, 2010)

KainXS said:


> and I wanna get a HD5870 cheap





Goodman said:


> Don't be shy about the 5870 say it out loud it's a great card



Rofl! Maybe he's coping with the fact that it won't be got for cheap soon! 

Seriously though, its a lesson for nvidia, they played big mouth, even showing faking cards. They even had a pop at larrabee, now the jokes on who eh?


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## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 18, 2010)

Crazy to think, another Gen might already be here. I can't remember either NV or ATI ever missing a gen, but it seems ht NV maybe be skipping a whole gen here if trillian lands first, I love ATI, but this isn't the best news as ATI cards prices are slowly on the rise, and the more bad news for NV the higher they go.


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## a_ump (Feb 18, 2010)

its good news for nvidia if they go higher isn't it? cause obviously nvidia is still selling cards and doing ok according to their 4th quarter revenue etc that was posted in another thread. i mean GTX 285's are still $339+ and are 10-20% slower than the HD 5850 which is $300. so yea lol nvidia's name is still selling itself and higher ATI prices will only help em imo. AMD/ATI have to be making headway thou, and i haven't seen any increase in their advertisement so i'm assuming their putting all their cash into next gen's architecture. Hopefully DX11 will start ATI's advertisement in most if not all dx11 games.


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## nt300 (Feb 18, 2010)

erocker said:


> It's fud. Hey according to this FUD article at Semi Accurate, we may never see Fermi. http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/02/17/nvidias-fermigtx480-broken-and-unfixable/ Broken and unfixable? If taken literally there would be no Fermi. Unless they are going to sell broken Fermi's? I heard this Trillian name before the 5 series launch, it should be interesting. Of course you get the word "tri" out of trillian. Perahps a 3 gpu card? ATi and Asus made a three GPU already.


I know for a fact Charlie Demerjian hates Nvidia and Nvidia hates Charlie Demerjian 
But good find, I should edit and add that link the my first post. I have to agree most of the time Charlie Demerjian is correct which is bad news for Nvidia and Fermi.

And now Nvidia and TSMC are fighting over blame on supply issues. 


> SPECULATION:
> Nvidia: What the hell is taking you so long with our 40nm Fermi's?
> 
> TSMC: Sorry but this Fermi is unmanufacturable, we've tried and tried.
> ...


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## ToTTenTranz (Feb 19, 2010)

I really don't think a 2400-shader new GPU would be in AMD's plans by now.

Truth be told, such a GPU isn't needed. Dual Fermi cards will take too long to appear (if they'll exist at all) and the HD5970 is already faster than the single Fermi card. Besides, if most rumours are correct, a single HD5970 could be cheaper to produce than a Fermi card, at least for the first batches.

I have no doubts that a HD5890 will come out in a couple of months (some big shots over at beyond3D have confirmed it during last weekend). But it should be practically the same GPU with higher clocks, both core and memory, with 2GB. And this should compete with the GTX260-esque Fermi, performance-wise.


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## mastrdrver (Feb 19, 2010)

I was searching through Google and apparently Nordicahardware revealed the identify of Trillian back in September:

http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/amd-radeon-hd-5870-5850-pricing-revealed-66208/
http://www.motherboards.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=723479#723479


> A few weeks ago there were reports of another member of AMD's graphics card family Evergreen. The card was code-named Trillian and would not use a special GPU but instead be a very special model. There were talks about three graphics processor but more likely it would be a card with extra display outputs. We have learned that the card will be called Radeon HD 5870 Six and support no less than six monitors, all with 3D functionality.



I think this makes Charlie's statement of Trillian "*lurking in the shadows*" to mean in the shadows of the 5870 as pictures from that Chinese site shows the Eyefinity 6 5870 uses the same PCB as the 5870 just with the empty slots filled it.
http://semiaccurate.com/2009/08/11/evergreen-has-six-members/


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## KainXS (Feb 19, 2010)

unless TSMC have some magical fps monkeys doing the work for them theres not gonna be a HD5870 X3, the power limits are too high but in this case if there was an x3 ATI would have to drop down the clocks and the voltage even more. and lets say they dropped it off another 125mhz from the HD5970, now at minus 600mhz it wouldn't even be worth it, 2x HD5870 @900mhz = 3x HD5870 @600mhz(all except the memory) and in my mind that would make ATI a laughing stock, and thats not even going of the heat issues.

The current 5970 is acceptable because of the price.


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## btarunr (Feb 19, 2010)

They seldom go in 50% increments. So whatever this thing is, should have 3200 stream processors, 512-bit GDDR5, 28 nm fab process. They called it "Hecatoncheires" (some ancient Greek monster).


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## ToTTenTranz (Feb 19, 2010)

btarunr said:


> They seldom go in 50% increments. So whatever this thing is, should have 3200 stream processors, 512-bit GDDR5, 28 nm fab process. They called it "Hecatoncheires" (some ancient Greek monster).



But that's the next gen, coming late 2010. 
Trillian is supposedly coming out next month or so.


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## btarunr (Feb 19, 2010)

ToTTenTranz said:


> But that's the next gen, coming late 2010.
> Trillian is supposedly coming out next month or so.



Hah, the only thing new AMD has "in a month or so" is HD 5830. That card is going to kick ass. Nothing else.


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## H82LUZ73 (Feb 19, 2010)

btarunr said:


> They seldom go in 50% increments. So whatever this thing is, should have 3200 stream processors, 512-bit GDDR5, 28 nm fab process. They called it "Hecatoncheires" (some ancient Greek monster).



THE HEKATONKHEIRES (or Hecatoncheires) were three giant gods of violent storms and hurricanes (theullai) summoned forth from the stormy pit of Tartaros. Each had a hundred hands and fifty heads, for the weilding of the destructive power of storm.


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## Indra EMC (Feb 19, 2010)

Goodman said:


> Nvidia will get Fermi out in mars it may also beat the 5870 or 5970 but it be short live , ATI should have another card out not to long after wich should outperform Fermi...
> 
> Don't be shy about the 5870 say it out loud , it's a great card...



Right

in fact, today AMD already researching for R900 cores or HD 6xxx card, we know all of HD 5xxx series not launched at all (there's rumor about HD 5890 and HD 5990) 

so, when fermi release, that's not long before AMD Release their HD 6xxx series. 

I'm *FORMER* Nvidia Fanboy who fall in love with ATI CARD since HD 5 series come


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## KainXS (Feb 19, 2010)

the R900 should be in early testing now, research on that core is almost guaranteed done with the R1000 being the one in current development, nvidia is in a similar situation Fermi isn't even out yet but Fermi's next "revision" should be in its development stages, Fermi got hung up on testing and optimizations.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Feb 19, 2010)

drop already 5 series prices! *shakes fist at sky*


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## Lionheart (Feb 19, 2010)

I will take this with a grain of salt, but it does sound awesome! 

Come on Nvidia, I believe in you, even though you suk sometimes but I want competition and low low prices, and your beastly cards!


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## ToTTenTranz (Feb 19, 2010)

The Fud is now saying that Trillian is the Eyefinity6.. meh.


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## nt300 (Feb 19, 2010)

Ya just read that too  So if not 5890, it leads me to believe AMD still has HD 5890 on hold just to see if and when Fermi gets released and how its performance will impact HD 5000's. One thing is for sure imo, AMD can afford to drop prices a lot, Nvidia cannot 

Trillian is Radeon HD5870 Eyefinity 6 card 
Not the “5890”
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17741/1/


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## nt300 (Feb 19, 2010)

KainXS said:


> the R900 should be in early testing now, research on that core is almost guaranteed done with the R1000 being the one in current development, nvidia is in a similar situation Fermi isn't even out yet but Fermi's next "revision" should be in its development stages, Fermi got hung up on testing and optimizations.


ATI's R900 is codenamed *Hecatoncheires*. 
In ancient Greek, Hecatoncheires means "hundred armed" and from what we hear this is a *Brand New Architecture *and not just improved version of R770, something that RV870 is. Love those Greeks 

This is when ATI finally Annihilates its competition imo 
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15891/34/


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## erocker (Feb 19, 2010)

nt300 said:


> ATI's R900 is codenamed *Hecatoncheires*.
> In ancient Greek, Hecatoncheires means "hundred armed" and from what we hear this is a *Brand New Architecture *and not just improved version of R770, something that RV870 is. Love those Greeks
> 
> This is when ATI finally Annihilates its competition imo
> http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15891/34/



I see RV970 being another shader/ROP increase based on the same design as 870/770/etc. It doesn't need to be redesigned yet. After RV970 it most likely will be a new archetecture.


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## zithe (Feb 19, 2010)

ToTTenTranz said:


> I really don't think a 2400-shader new GPU would be in AMD's plans by now.



It's bad business practice to stand still and let the competition catch up.


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## Binge (Feb 19, 2010)

More ROPs will = win.  I really like the specs of the "Trillian" in the first post.

::EDIT::

Anyone see this article yet?



> Not the “5890”
> 
> It turns out our well informed sources weren't that well informed after all. This is a new card from ATI but it's not the faster HD 5870.
> 
> ...


Source:  Fudzilla


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## KainXS (Feb 19, 2010)

so the HD5890 is just the HD5890 and this trillian is just this card we saw at launch


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## ToTTenTranz (Feb 19, 2010)

zithe said:


> It's bad business practice to stand still and let the competition catch up.



No one at AMD or nVidia ever stands still. It's always a matter of resource management.
Which is why they don't launch cards just because they can - they launch them when it makes sense.


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## mastrdrver (Feb 19, 2010)

erocker said:


> I see RV970 being another shader/ROP increase based on the same design as 870/770/etc. It doesn't need to be redesigned yet. After RV970 it most likely will be a new archetecture.



Nordichardware and VR-Zone(?) have already stated that R900 is a redesign. I think I read Charlie saying this too but I'm not sure where.

Even Tech Report, at the end of their last Fermi article, stated that ATI will need to change to change architecture the next generation to something "similar" to Fermi (I believe it to mean being able to do more than 1 poly/clock).


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## erocker (Feb 19, 2010)

mastrdrver said:


> Nordichardware and VR-Zone(?) have already stated that R900 is a redesign. I think I read Charlie saying this too but I'm not sure where.
> 
> Even Tech Report, at the end of their last Fermi article, stated that ATI will need to change to change architecture the next generation to something "similar" to Fermi (I believe it to mean being able to do more than 1 poly/clock).



Thing is, based on power consumption and heat dissapation where it stands now, the RV870 could easily be beefed up and be called a RV970. Especially if done on a smaller process than 40nm. This is also most likely the most cost effective thing ATi can do. It's been working for them. I disagree with the TechReport article, and I think that thier article is based off of "if everything goes right" with Fermi. I'm fairly confident if ATi went ahead and added shaders and ROP's to the RV870 it would beat a Fermi. Time will tell, Nvidia needs to start selling cards first.


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## a_ump (Feb 19, 2010)

i would really like to see ATI work on a new architecture, but at Nvidia's current pace, it wouldn't surprise me if ATI saved the new architecture for "RV1000" and did another shrink+improvement on the current like they have been. No need for them to release a new architecture yet. Unless they want to try what intel did and blow away their competition. If they succeeded that'd be great. I really do think, architecture-wise, nvidia is in a tight spot untill 28nm becomes solid.


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## Indra EMC (Feb 20, 2010)

KainXS said:


> so the HD5890 is just the HD5890 and this trillian is just this card we saw at launch
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/100219/AMD-Radeon-HD-5870-2GB-6DP-4.jpg



That is definitely not _Trillian_, but *That's HD 5870 with SIX mini display port* for 6 monitor in Eyefinity mode.


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## zithe (Feb 20, 2010)

ToTTenTranz said:


> No one at AMD or nVidia ever stands still. It's always a matter of resource management.
> Which is why they don't launch cards just because they can - they launch them when it makes sense.



Using the G92 as high end for 2 years was standing still, imho. ATI wouldn't have had a chance if nvidia had just gone on with new stuff. I don't believe there was anything stopping them.


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## a_ump (Feb 20, 2010)

very true zithe. Nvidia coulda pulled an intel and come out with a new architecture(G200) while their opposition was behind. Like imagine if Nvidia had come out with G200 while HD 3XXX series was being released.


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## Lionheart (Feb 21, 2010)

Do you guys think there will be a HD5990?


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## DonInKansas (Feb 21, 2010)

zithe said:


> It's bad business practice to stand still and let the competition catch up.



No, it's bad business practice to blow your wad when you already control a segment of the marketplace.  There's something to be said for release timing when a lot of customers will equate "new release" with "zomg awesomeness."


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## ToTTenTranz (Feb 21, 2010)

zithe said:


> Using the G92 as high end for 2 years was standing still, imho. ATI wouldn't have had a chance if nvidia had just gone on with new stuff. I don't believe there was anything stopping them.



You might want to re-check your sources.

The G92 was nVidia's high end from December 2007 (8800GTS 512 launch) to June 2008 (280GTX launch). That's 7 months, not 2 years.
Even the 9800GX2 was the top card for only 3 months.

Gradually, the G92 was used from high end (8800GT) to top end (8800 GTS 512, later 9800GX2) and to mid-end right now (GTS250). 


What's been around as high-end for two years is the GT200. And that's happened because of nVidia's horrid experience with 40nm.
As far as rumours go, the GT212 (256-shader, DX10.1 40nm part) was cancelled in early 2009 and Fermi has been.. well, late.



But you can be sure that the HD5000 series' success depended a lot on nVidia's fail.


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## El_Mayo (Feb 21, 2010)

CHAOS_KILLA said:


> Do you guys think there will be a HD5990?



Hmm, who knows
there was no HD 4890x2 even though it may have equal a GTX 295
the real question is:
Will there be an HD5950?
i think that would sell


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## a_ump (Feb 21, 2010)

ToTTenTranz said:


> You might want to re-check your sources.
> 
> The G92 was nVidia's high end from December 2007 (8800GTS 512 launch) to June 2008 (280GTX launch). That's 7 months, not 2 years.
> Even the 9800GX2 was the top card for only 3 months.
> ...



u ever wonder that maybe nvidia after all this time and realizing fermi's difficulty went back and fixed that issue. Cause how else are they going to fill the high end of the GTX 3XX series? Fermi is GTX 4XX and GTX 3XX has been 200 series renames. So i think it's possible.


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## Lionheart (Feb 22, 2010)

El_Mayo said:


> Hmm, who knows
> there was no HD 4890x2 even though it may have equal a GTX 295
> the real question is:
> Will there be an HD5950?
> i think that would sell



Yeah true, a HD5950 would be a great hign end dual video card, hopefully amd will release it, not that I want it but it would save ppl money on buying a HD5970, plus overclocking will be good!


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## zithe (Feb 22, 2010)

ToTTenTranz said:


> You might want to re-check your sources.
> 
> The G92 was nVidia's high end from December 2007 (8800GTS 512 launch) to June 2008 (280GTX launch). That's 7 months, not 2 years.
> Even the 9800GX2 was the top card for only 3 months.
> ...



I was kinda including the g80 in that run, as the performance levels were initially 2-3% different between them. 

But you can be sure that the HD5000 series' success depended a lot on nVidia's fail.


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## mastrdrver (Feb 22, 2010)

Its funny that they canceled GT212 (256 shader part). I've been seeing random comments here and there that a half Fermi (256 shader) is coming soon than everyone is thinking.


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## nt300 (Feb 22, 2010)

mastrdrver said:


> Nordichardware and VR-Zone(?) have already stated that R900 is a redesign. I think I read Charlie saying this too but I'm not sure where.
> 
> Even Tech Report, at the end of their last Fermi article, stated that ATI will need to change to change architecture the next generation to something "similar" to Fermi (I believe it to mean being able to do more than 1 poly/clock).


I would have to agree. AMD is ready to move into something completely new once Bulldozer gets released as a Brand new build from the ground up. Seems AMD is going to do a complete build from the ground up with everything CPU and GPU related. Good move imo, and something to build for the future.


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## Lionheart (Feb 22, 2010)

nt300 said:


> I would have to agree. AMD is ready to move into something completely new once Bulldozer gets released as a Brand new build from the ground up. Seems AMD is going to do a complete build from the ground up with everything CPU and GPU related. Good move imo, and something to build for the future.



Sorry NT300, but I ant get over your avatar, its really distracting


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## nt300 (Feb 23, 2010)

CHAOS_KILLA said:


> Sorry NT300, but I ant get over your avatar, its really distracting


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## HookeyStreet (Mar 2, 2010)

Im glad ATi is winning the race and I hope they continue to do so


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## Super XP (Mar 4, 2010)

HookeyStreet said:


> Im glad ATi is winning the race and I hope they continue to do so


All thanks to AMD


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## KainXS (Mar 4, 2010)

The HD5990 is rumored be released this month, maybe AMD is gonna use that to keep the crown.


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## a_ump (Mar 4, 2010)

KainXS said:


> The HD5990 is rumored be released this month, maybe AMD is gonna use that to keep the crown.



keep the crown? since when has the HD 5970 been endangered? the HD 5870 definitely is at risk by the GTX 480, but HD 5970 i mean i haven't even heard of any rumors stating the GTX 480 would overthrow the HD 5970, just hopes and dreams imo. With the released/rumored benchies of the GTX 470 performing at or below an HD 5870...the GTX 480 is going to have to be roughly 25% faster to compete with the HD 5970...which i don't see happening.


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## Lionheart (Mar 4, 2010)

KainXS said:


> The HD5990 is rumored be released this month, maybe AMD is gonna use that to keep the crown.



I have no doubt that AMD will release a HD5990 but it would make more sense to release the HD5890 first then the HD5990. I guess we will have to wait and see!


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## Kantastic (Mar 4, 2010)

So what are the rumored specs of the 5990? Other partners are already making normal-clocked 5970's with 4GB of RAM... unless that's the so-called 5990.


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## a_ump (Mar 4, 2010)

man u guys can't be serious.....logically there is no reason for the HD 5990 even when the GTX 480 debuts


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## trt740 (Mar 4, 2010)

fermi is coming soon you can tell because AMD is dropping prices and handing out deals left and right.


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## 20mmrain (Mar 4, 2010)

> fermi is coming soon you can tell because AMD is dropping prices and handing out deals left and right.



Yeah this might be true..... But one thing that doesn't have me that worried about Fermi being all the more powerful is....... If you remember ATI "mistakenly" let slip benchmarks as early as a month before the release of the 5800 series. We have not seen much like that from the Nvidia front. 

If I had a card that could kill anything the competition had I would definitely let some benchmarks slip! With 3 weeks left .... what the hell could ATI do really anyway? While I do think Fermi will be more powerful.... I don't think it will be as powerful as everyone thinks. Plus by releasing benchmarks your not really hurting anything..... It's not like your releasing all of your specs to the competition. 

Just a thought.



> man u guys can't be serious.....logically there is no reason for the HD 5990 even when the GTX 480 debuts



+1 It makes no sense for ATI to release a 5000 series refresh. Why should they do that when they have been the only competition out there for so long. Just think about it how much money have they made because of that? Tones!!!
It would make more sense for them to take all of that money and put it in the new series I.E. Northern Islands aka 6870 and blast Nvidia with their next gen cards. 

Plus ATI can just do what they did last time ..... lower the prices and beat Nvidia in volume. Think about it if you charge $250 to $300 bucks for a 5870.... they would still win out because of all the people out there who have already bought a 5870. 
If it was me making the choice between buying another 5870 for $300 bucks ( and beating Fermi) or spending $600 dollars to start all over again for a new card to get less performance..... I would choose just adding the second cheaper card! Plus the games that don't use Xfire can easily run with just one 5870. 

For all these statements is why it doesn't make sense for ATI to come out with a refresh. 

The only reason ATI would have for it would be only to keep the performance crown and as it stands for right now it seems that they will.



But as far as your statement goes...... that's not bad news at all..... I would still wager two 5870's will easily out do one GTX 480 and just imagine if you could by them at around $250 to $300 dollars.... That would really put the rain on Nvidia's parade!

All though I would still love a 5990


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## Lionheart (Mar 4, 2010)

a_ump said:


> man u guys can't be serious.....logically there is no reason for the HD 5990 even when the GTX 480 debuts



Yeah probably not, the only reason I have would be WANT!


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## the54thvoid (Mar 4, 2010)

*Factoids*

1- Fuad is an NV chap. He states a mutual falling out with ATI so his leanings are to NV as CD is to not leaning to NV. 
2- Only in unigine does the GTX480 threaten the HD5970 and we know thats synthetic and dependant upon tesselation heavy/shader light applications - so not very indicative of gaming.
3- Too many, FAR TOO MANY fans of either camp are throwing figures around as if they are concrete.  FACT IS, Nvidia are staying 'too' quiet over the GTX480's performance.  Read into that what you will.
4- Some camps are referring to a GTX 495 (dual card variant).  We're all assuming the 480 to cost far more than the 5870 and closer to the 5970.  So how much would a dual 480 card cost?! The thought fills my wallet with dread.  The 4GB 5970's are $1000 cards, where would a dual fermi be (if at all manufacturable).
5- _ATI doesnt need an answer to Fermi_.  Both NV and ATI had plans to release last year.  ATI did.  NV didnt.  _Fermi is NV's answer to the 5 series_.  You would also expect that a company with NV's tech prowess would, given 4-5 months catch up, be able to tweak their design to go one over on ATI. 
6- The Fermi part is not a designated desktop part.  NV made the mistake of going for a HPC part and were going to make derivatives for the desktop market.  This approach failed and the GF100 was born.  The GF100 is not a dedicated gfx card - it was primarily designed to be so much more (brave idea to be honest).  Thats it (and Larabees) problem.  The HD5 series are designated gfx cards, not general compute devices.
7- I can play Aliens Versus Predator on 24" monitor with everything turned on, EVERYTHING and its smooth as silk.  I get perfect performance with 5850 crossfired.  NVidia was my preferred choice (i've said this before) but i wanted a DX11 part early on and ATI were there.  No matter what way you look at it, Nvidia have lost a ton of customers over their delays.  And i am amazed at the low heat and acoustic performance of my set up.
(And btw, the tesselation effects on brickwork in Stalker COP aren't half bad, and again - run very smoothly on ATI.)
8- FINALLY.  These are graphics cards we are ultimately talking about.  They're not real people, they're not truly important. The world still spins and people are still being shit to one another.  Lets get perspective here - all Green or Red want is our money.  That is the only fact that is so far true.


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## KainXS (Mar 4, 2010)

its only a overclocked 5970

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2010/3/3/sapphire-ready-to-launch-radeon-hd-5990-4gb.aspx

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...-out-with-four-new-platforms-in-may-2010.aspx

it may not be a HD5990 exactly for all we know but AMD seems to be planning to pump up the core clocks on the HD5970's to HD5870 levels clocks as far as Leslie AMD's worldwide marketing director says and there is a mystery HD59XX card going around thats ridiculously long and has HD5870 clocks on the cores(could be they eyefinity HD5970 version).

I also don't expect fermi to outperform a HD5970 but you can never be "too" sure


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## nt300 (Mar 5, 2010)

We should make something very clear for everybody. The GTX 480 is meant to compete with HD 5870 and GTX 470 to compete with HD 5850. The only way Nvidia can compete with the king of the crown HD 5970 is with a dual gpu GTX480 which will never happen unless Nvidia reduces the clock speeds, cuda cores and memory speed. The GTX 480 needs +300W to run, can you imagin 2 of them side by side 

Only reason why AMD is releasing refreshs of the HD 5800's is to apply further price pressure on Nvidia. If Nvidia does not deliver on the price and performance they will lose a lot of money. This is probably one of the best times for ATI


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## Lionheart (Mar 5, 2010)

nt300 said:


> We should make something very clear for everybody. The GTX 480 is meant to compete with HD 5870 and GTX 470 to compete with HD 5850. The only way Nvidia can compete with the king of the crown HD 5970 is with a dual gpu GTX480 which will never happen unless Nvidia reduces the clock speeds, cuda cores and memory speed. The GTX 480 needs +300W to run, can you imagin 2 of them side by side
> 
> Only reason why AMD is releasing refreshs of the HD 5800's is to apply further price pressure on Nvidia. If Nvidia does not deliver on the price and performance they will lose a lot of money. This is probably one of the best times for ATI




You have a good point! Now give me your avatar


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## craigo (Mar 5, 2010)

1.7% yields whatever small performance gain you get with nvidia will be eclipsed by the cost of the power supply you need to run such an inefficient card


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## a_ump (Mar 6, 2010)

nah, i say any PSU of 600watt should have 40amps on 12v. i would hope anyways lol. As has been said i believe that nvidia will really struggle this time around. But the good thing of having so many mess ups is they've definitely learned alot of what *not* to do. So i believe the next gen from nvidia will be killer. And i feel that ATi thinks that same which would give a reason for them designing a new architecture for the HD 6XXX series. Lets hope ATi doesn't struggle with releasing that.


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## Super XP (Mar 6, 2010)

AMD already hinted on a modular approach for their upcoming HD 6000 series. 

There are two things about the HD 6000 series that will “Greatly Differ” from past & present graphics designs.

1)	Modular approach which AMD can build on over & over again achieving extraordinary performance increases, the performance gains only seen by complete builds from the ground up. Modulation being the key factor to achieve such a leap in performance over and over again at a much cheaper cost and still keeping the R&D going full swing.

2)	HD 6000 series is (rumoured) said to be a completely new build from the ground up. You won’t see an HD 5000 series design molested into a HD 6000 series. You can take the HD 5000 series design and throw it into the trash. The HD 6000 is to ATI as Fermi is to NVIDIA a complete new micro-architectural build.

Let me stress, the individual(s) which I’ve obtained this information from told me that this new Modular GPU design can either be the HD 6000 or the HD 7000 series, it all depends on how well NVIDIA is doing. In other words, this new design is not locked to one name or generation; it’s all up to AMD now. Anyway take this all as a rumour obviously, which I’ve obtained close to home in Toronto, ON. Canada, in a sports bar and loads of Mill street beers  
You got to loosen them up in order for them to spill the beans ya know 

For people that don't already know, I live less than 5 minutes away from the ATI Technology Headquarters.

The interesting thing about NV’s Fermi is why on earth didn’t they release low & mid range cards to test them in the market place, fix the drivers and a little later on release the true arsenal GTX 480 & 470? What the hell was NVIDIA thinking anyway? ATI does this all the time.


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## ToTTenTranz (Mar 6, 2010)

nt300 said:


> We should make something very clear for everybody. The GTX 480 is meant to compete with HD 5870 and GTX 470 to compete with HD 5850.



Price determines the competition, nothing else. If the GTX470 is released at the same price as the HD5870, the HD5850 won't have a competitor anytime soon.


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## nt300 (Mar 6, 2010)

ToTTenTranz said:


> Price determines the competition, nothing else. If the GTX470 is released at the same price as the HD5870, the HD5850 won't have a competitor anytime soon.


That makes sense but if the 480 is a little faster than the hd 5870, AMD would drop its price which will put pressure on Nvidia to do the same. So yes new technology is great but in this time of age, price is the leading indicator for competition with technology coming in second place. Tha is what I meant by my statement.


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## Super XP (Mar 8, 2010)

I hope ATI drops prices once NVIDIA shows off its stuff


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## nt300 (Mar 9, 2010)

Looking how bad GTX 480 is performing with latest benchmarks released it doesn't look good for Nvidia but still hoping they charge much less so ATI can also drop price.


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## 20mmrain (Mar 9, 2010)

nt300 said:


> Looking how bad GTX 480 is performing with latest benchmarks released it doesn't look good for Nvidia but still hoping they charge much less so ATI can also drop price.



I wouldn't count on it for one reason..... this card has very advanced technology that Nvidia had to develop to be able to make this card.

Nvidia will have to make this money up somewhere.


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## ToTTenTranz (Mar 9, 2010)

20mmrain said:


> I wouldn't count on it for one reason..... this card has very advanced technology that Nvidia had to develop to be able to make this card.
> 
> Nvidia will have to make this money up somewhere.





nVidia pretty much confirmed that gaming on the Fermi is kind of a "side-quest" in this new card.
The real money should come from computing stations, not gamers.

That said, there's a chance that the GTX400 cards could be quite cheap.


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## a_ump (Mar 9, 2010)

ToTTenTranz said:


> nVidia pretty much confirmed that gaming on the Fermi is kind of a "side-quest" in this new card.
> The real money should come from computing stations, not gamers.
> 
> That said, there's a chance that the GTX400 cards could be quite cheap.



i agree. i too think that Nvidia's Fermi will kill ATI's HD 5XXX variants at workstation apps, and that's where nvidia is probly going devote most of their Fermi chips, its the only logical way they can make bank.


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