# 7.1 surround connectivity question.



## hat (Jun 1, 2010)

I'm not really doing this, but a man can dream...

I was thinking about what it would be like to have a 7.1 home theater setup with a reciever that would do optical out, but the only sound card I know of that handles that is Creative, and as I'm sure most of you know, I'm pretty opposed to getting an X-Fi from Creative, heh...

The ASUS Xonar D2X has SPDIF. If I got a 7.1 home theater system with a reciever that did SPDIF, would the SPDIF connection support 7.1?


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## sneekypeet (Jun 1, 2010)

I have no idea, but I fixed your title, you should know better


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## va4leo (Jun 1, 2010)

Isn't all optical basically as good as the decoder? Soo, depending on whether its DTS or Pro Logic II, i don't know. I want to see the replies. I run a 5.1 off optical (X-Fi) and seem to have little problem (fingers crossed) when i play DTS through them.


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## freaksavior (Jun 1, 2010)

hat said:


> I'm not really doing this, but a man can dream...
> 
> I was thinking about what it would be like to have a 7.1 home theater setup with a reciever that would do optical out, but the only sound card I know of that handles that is Creative, and as I'm sure most of you know, I'm pretty opposed to getting an X-Fi from Creative, heh...
> 
> The ASUS Xonar D2X has SPDIF. If I got a 7.1 home theater system with a reciever that did SPDIF, would the SPDIF connection support 7.1?



yes, it should do 7.1 remixed. but in reality, the only things that are 7.1 are blue rays and that has to be hdmi for good audio.


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

freaksavior said:


> yes, it should do 7.1 remixed. but in reality, the only things that are 7.1 are blue rays and that has to be hdmi for good audio.



^ what he said


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 1, 2010)

you are going about it all wrong. get a 7.1 receiver with hdmi inputs. get a decent video card that has hdmi output. get a high quality soundcard that decodes all the latest technologies and has spdif output pins. connect that to your video card and plug the HDMI into your receiver.


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## hat (Jun 1, 2010)

I would rather just use SPDIF, or get a sound card with HDMI or optical and run that straight to the reciever. Unfortunately, the only sound cards with Optical are Creative X-Fis, and the only cards with HDMI don't have the standard 3.5mm connector for speakers.

Oh.. the HT Omega Striker has optical..

Heh, I just learned something... optical IS SPDIF, there's just optical SPDIF and coaxial SPDIF...


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

hat said:


> I would rather just use SPDIF, or get a sound card with HDMI or optical and run that straight to the reciever. Unfortunately, the only sound cards with Optical are Creative X-Fis, and the only cards with HDMI don't have the standard 3.5mm connector for speakers.
> 
> Oh.. the HT Omega Striker has optical..
> 
> Heh, I just learned something... optical IS SPDIF, there's just optical SPDIF and coaxial SPDIF...



huh? every man and his dog has optical these days.


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## Steevo (Jun 1, 2010)

My old turtle beach montego had optical in and out. Unfortunately they crippled the drivers.

ATI cards allow full 7.1 pass through at full audio quality on 4XXX series and later I believe on HDMI.


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

Steevo said:


> My old turtle beach montego had optical in and out. Unfortunately they crippled the drivers.
> 
> ATI cards allow full 7.1 pass through at full audio quality on 4XXX series and later I believe on HDMI.



yeah they do... but you need speakers/receiver with HDMI.


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## hat (Jun 1, 2010)

Mussels said:


> huh? every man and his dog has optical these days.



I was specifically looking at ASUS cards. If I _were_ to do this, I would be looking for a card with standard 3.5mm jacks for speakers and headphones and such, but also having SPDIF, preferably in optical form. The best ASUS card for this seems to be the D2X, which has coaxial SPDIF. There's also the one with HDMI, but it's _just_ HDMI (and coaxial SPDIF out IIRC), no 3.5mm jacks.


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## monte84 (Jun 1, 2010)

They only way to get 7.1 out of an SPDIF would be through blu-ray. There is no encoding, like DDL or DTS connect that supports over 5.1 at least not yet, so analog would be the only way to take real advtange of 7.1. For instance in games. 

HDMI isnt better, its still the same signal as your SPDIF as well as DVI-D its just combines the two.


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## Wile E (Jun 1, 2010)

monte84 said:


> They only way to get 7.1 out of an SPDIF would be through blu-ray. There is no encoding, like DDL or DTS connect that supports over 5.1 at least not yet, so analog would be the only way to take real advtange of 7.1. For instance in games.
> 
> *HDMI isnt better*, its still the same signal as your SPDIF as well as DVI-D its just combines the two.



HDMI has more bandwidth. Optical is not capable of doing 7.1 channels uncompressed. Don't think Coax can handle it either, iirc. 7.1 uncompressed (TrueHD, DTS HD Master, PCM) can only come thru HDMI.


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 1, 2010)

hat said:


> I would rather just use SPDIF, or get a sound card with HDMI or optical and run that straight to the reciever. Unfortunately, the only sound cards with Optical are Creative X-Fis, and the only cards with HDMI don't have the standard 3.5mm connector for speakers.
> 
> Oh.. the HT Omega Striker has optical..
> 
> Heh, I just learned something... optical IS SPDIF, there's just optical SPDIF and coaxial SPDIF...



man you were confusing the hell out of me 

btw, the industry standard is to connect your sound card to your video card using the spdif pins and then go hdmi to the receiver. that is the entire point of running hdmi since it carries both video and audio.


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## Wile E (Jun 1, 2010)

Hat, with a D2x or even better, an Auzentech Forte, just use the analog outs into your receiver. The DACs and OpAmps on those cards are high quality, and are more than enough for most people.


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 1, 2010)

Wile E said:


> HDMI has more bandwidth. Optical is not capable of doing 7.1 channels uncompressed. Don't think Coax can handle it either, iirc. 7.1 uncompressed (TrueHD, DTS HD Master, PCM) can only come thru HDMI.



the key word here is uncompressed. and even compressed running bitstream instead of pcm i don't think it can handle it. it all depends on what you want to do the encoding. anyway, these days it is just easier to have a receiver that does it all and go hdmi.


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## hat (Jun 1, 2010)

Wile E said:


> Hat, with a D2x or even better, an Auzentech Forte, just use the analog outs into your receiver. The DACs and OpAmps on those cards are high quality, and are more than enough for most people.



I don't know of any recievers that take 3.5mm? heh

I'm very nooby to this stuff though, so I'm sure someone could enlighten me, heh


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## monte84 (Jun 1, 2010)

Wile E said:


> HDMI has more bandwidth. Optical is not capable of doing 7.1 channels uncompressed. Don't think Coax can handle it either, iirc. 7.1 uncompressed (TrueHD, DTS HD Master, PCM) can only come thru HDMI.



Not entirely accurate, an optical connection can carry more than enough bandwidth, coax may be able to handle over a short enough distance, the real limitation is with SPDIF and of course the lack of HDCP over an SPDIF connection. The realy reason for HDMI, in my oppinion. DRM control.


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 1, 2010)

monte84 said:


> Not entirely accurate, an optical connection can carry more than enough bandwidth, coax may be able to handle over a short enough distance, the real limitation is with SPDIF and of course the lack of HDCP over an SPDIF connection. The realy reason for HDMI, in my oppinion. DRM control.



optical cannot carry dts-man or true-hd. you need hdmi for that.


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> optical cannot carry dts-man or true-hd. you need hdmi for that.



OPTICAL can, SPDIF over optical cant.

of course, they'd need to come up with some new tech to replace SPDIF on optical for it to work, we're just talking theoretical here.


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 1, 2010)

Mussels said:


> OPTICAL can, SPDIF over optical cant.
> 
> of course, they'd need to come up with some new tech to replace SPDIF on optical for it to work, we're just talking theoretical here.



uh, who uses optical without using spdif


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> uh, who uses optical without using spdif



theoretical people who dont care if it actually works!

he was just making the point that its SPDIF that limits it, not the optical connections bandwidth


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## monte84 (Jun 1, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> optical cannot carry dts-man or true-hd. you need hdmi for that.



Didnt say it could, just said it could handle the bandwidth


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 1, 2010)

monte84 said:


> Didnt say it could, just said it could handle the bandwidth



i see now. the OP should just stick with the simplest setup as i first mentioned if he wants to run it out from his PC. personally i run all my media from the ps3 using hdmi to a marantz receiver and it is killer. the ps3 does all of the decoding and is a champ at it. thank god for programs like mkv2vob and ps3 media server


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## monte84 (Jun 1, 2010)

im wierd though, i still prefer an analog connection. and analog is still the only way to get greater than 5.1 in games


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## Wile E (Jun 1, 2010)

hat said:


> I don't know of any recievers that take 3.5mm? heh
> 
> I'm very nooby to this stuff though, so I'm sure someone could enlighten me, heh



You just need 3.5mm to rca cords or adapters. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000V0G2C4/?tag=tec06d-20



monte84 said:


> im wierd though, i still prefer an analog connection. and analog is still the only way to get greater than 5.1 in games



That, and good sound cards tend to have better sounding opamps and DACs than the typical low cost HDMI receiver/speaker packages out there.


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

Wile E said:


> You just need 3.5mm to rca cords or adapters. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000V0G2C4/?tag=tec06d-20



assuming of course, it has enough analogue inputs


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## Wile E (Jun 1, 2010)

Mussels said:


> assuming of course, it has enough analogue inputs



lol. If it's a 7.1 receiver, and it has analog ins, it has 7.1 of them. lol.


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

Wile E said:


> lol. If it's a 7.1 receiver, and it has analog ins, it has 7.1 of them. lol.



0.1 of an analogue input? that aint gunna work well.


7.1 should have 4 analogue inputs...


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## Hayder_Master (Jun 1, 2010)

maybe i don't have Experience HDMI but i have 7.1 creative x-fi titanium pro sound card and T7900 creative 7.1 speakers, it's work fine with me if anything in your mind just ask maybe i can do some help


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## Deleted member 3 (Jun 1, 2010)

hat said:


> I was thinking about what it would be like to have a 7.1 home theater setup with a reciever that would do optical out



It would be like having butterflies in your ears. Given that may sound weird, but it isn't any more weird than having them in your tummy. I should eat some chocolate now.


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## Dent1 (Jun 1, 2010)

hat said:


> The ASUS Xonar D2X has SPDIF. If I got a 7.1 home theater system with a reciever that did SPDIF, would the SPDIF connection support 7.1?



SPDIF will only go upto PCM 2.0 natively or 5.1 if its compressed. If compression is used SPDIF can support Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 presuming the DVD you are watching supports Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1. However using upmixing algorithms like Dolby Prologic or DTS NEO the receiver can upmix PCM 2.0 or DTS/DD 5.1 sources into a fake 7.1.

For a genuine 7.1 (8 channel) experience you will need a soundcard with HDMI ouput i.e. Auzentech Home Theatre or Xonar HDAV 1.3 soundcards, these soundcards will natively support Dolby Digital True HD 7.1 and DTS Masters 7.1 which is found on the upcoming BluRay titles.

Some ATI 5xxx video cards can support regular DD 5.1/DTS 5.1 and Dolby Digital True HD 7.1 and DTS Masters 7.1 through HDMI on supported DVDs or BluRay titles, this can be a formidable alternative to buying a dedicated sound card.


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 1, 2010)

monte84 said:


> im wierd though, i still prefer an analog connection. and analog is still the only way to get greater than 5.1 in games



maybe using the pc. the ps3 has plenty of 7.1 games and they sound amazing on my setup


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> maybe using the pc. the ps3 has plenty of 7.1 games and they sound amazing on my setup



i'd have to agree with rhino, many games can make 7.1 audio... doing so on SPDIF is the problem.


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## monte84 (Jun 1, 2010)

well,  he is asking for a PC soundcard, not an audio setup for a PS3


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 1, 2010)

monte84 said:


> well,  he is asking for a PC soundcard, not an audio setup for a PS3



yup. which is why IMO he is going about it all wrong.


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## GSG-9 (Jun 1, 2010)

Mussels said:


> i'd have to agree with rhino, many games can make 7.1 audio... doing so on SPDIF is the problem.



But can they make 9.2!!?

ONKYO 9.2-Channel Black A/V Surround Home Network ...

Now that is overkill.


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 1, 2010)

GSG-9 said:


> But can they make 9.2!!?
> 
> ONKYO 9.2-Channel Black A/V Surround Home Network ...
> 
> Now that is overkill.



nothing is overkill. this is techpowerup!


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## freaksavior (Jun 1, 2010)

GSG-9 said:


> But can they make 9.2!!?
> 
> ONKYO 9.2-Channel Black A/V Surround Home Network ...
> 
> Now that is overkill.



Its not overkill, dual subs is amazing with the right  ones. 9.2 is realistic if your room is big enough. A reciever that highend will usually upmix the 5.1 to 9.2 for you.


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## hat (Jun 2, 2010)

Uhh...
Do you go OUT from the reciever INTO the card (I thought sound cards were mostly outputs? The only input would be like the mic port), or OUT of the card INTO the reciever...


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2010)

hat said:


> Uhh...
> Do you go OUT from the reciever INTO the card (I thought sound cards were mostly outputs? The only input would be like the mic port), or OUT of the card INTO the reciever...



card -> receiver


some people get encoding/decoding confused an awful lot, its hard to make sense out of it.


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## hat (Jun 2, 2010)

so you're using outputs from the card then?


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2010)

hat said:


> so you're using outputs from the card then?



me? i use analogue outputs from my card to my reciver for my gaming PC, and use video card- > HDMI-> TV -> optical -> receiver for my media PC.


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## hat (Jun 2, 2010)

What happened to the Thanks  button?


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2010)

hat said:


> What happened to the Thanks  button?



doesnt appear on those automatic updated pots. refresh the page.


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## hat (Jun 2, 2010)

I have been, it still not there...

On all the recievers I see, they just have left and right RCA outs. How am I supposed to use a 5.1 speaker set with my computer if there's just left and right RCA channels? What about the rear and center speakers?


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2010)

hat said:


> I have been, it still not there...
> 
> On all the recievers I see, they just have left and right RCA outs. How am I supposed to use a 5.1 speaker set with my computer if there's just left and right RCA channels? What about the rear and center speakers?



thats either stereo analogue only, or its SPDIF/in out over RCA


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## hat (Jun 2, 2010)

Well if I want to get 5.1 or 7.1 and I'm using RCA... how is this going to work? Or would I be better off getting that ASUS card that has HDMI inputs... or using something with coaxial SPDIF, or opcial SPDIF?

If it's SPDIF over RCA, would it still work fine if being converted to use 3.5mm? Would I get proper 5.1/7.1 support?


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2010)

hat said:


> Well if I want to get 5.1 or 7.1 and I'm using RCA... how is this going to work? Or would I be better off getting that ASUS card that has HDMI inputs... or using something with coaxial SPDIF, or opcial SPDIF?
> 
> If it's SPDIF over RCA, would it still work fine if being converted to use 3.5mm? Would I get proper 5.1/7.1 support?



you need to decide what you're doing, analogue or digital.

if you want 7.1, you need analogue or HDMI.

if you're ok with 5.1, then you can go SPDIF, but you need either a compressed source, or a sound card with real time encoding.


what makes you think you need a card with HDMI inputs, as opposed to OUTputs? (which the video card does)


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## hat (Jun 2, 2010)

Not worried about video cards with HDMI. I was thinking a sound card with an HDMI out (ASUS has one) would be best. Just run a HDMI cable to the reciever.

I'm exploring all possibilities here, mostly for my own knowledge. I know that I can just run a HDMI cable, so now I'm looking into how it would work with analog... all the recievers I've seen just have a L and R RCA channel, but how would that work with 5.1/7.1 then, heh... and what if I had a 7.1 setup hooked up to the reciever, and just used the L and R rca to 3.5mm cable Wile E posted... would I get 7.1 from that?


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2010)

that does work, yes. but of course that negates you doing video over the HDMI, should you want to (unless its got HDMI in as well)

no you would get stereo from that.

you either need one analogue stero 3.5mm plug (or two RCA mono plugs) per two channels of audio.

the only way to get 7.1 is with 4 analogue inputs, or HDMI.


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## hat (Jun 2, 2010)

I havn't seen any reciever with more than R and L stereo RCA, so if I ever decide to go through with this, HDMI it is then!

I can kinda see myself doing this in the futre, as in tens of thousands of dollars in the future when I have my own place... but my 5.1 computer speaker set will do for now 

Thanks guys, learned a lot.


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## Wile E (Jun 2, 2010)

Mussels said:


> 0.1 of an analogue input? that aint gunna work well.
> 
> 
> 7.1 should have 4 analogue inputs...



Actually, 8 of them. 1 for each channel. The .1 refers to LFE, smartass. lol


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2010)

Wile E said:


> Actually, 8 of them. 1 for each channel. The .1 refers to LFE, smartass. lol



really? 8x RCA?

i was thinking 4x stereo (and was picking on a wording flaw. smartass is correct)


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## Wile E (Jun 2, 2010)

7.1 channel receivers with analog inputs, have 8 analog rca inputs. One RCA for each channel.

Hat, you need 4 of those cables I showed you. 

First one: 3.5mm male into Front L&R output of sound card. White RCA to Front Left analog input on the receiver, red rca to Front Right. (Get it? red for right)

Second: 3.5mm male into Side surround output of sound card. White RCA to Side Surround Left analog input on receiver, red RCA to Side Surround Right on receiver.

Third: Repeat for Rear Surround.

Now the Fourth:This one is a little trickier. The 3.5mm goes to the Center/Sub output of your sound card. Now, on the receiver side, you'll have to test. I forget which is center and which is sub. Just use a test tone to your center channel to figure it out. Don't use a Sub test tone, as if you get it backwards, you're sending all that bass to the center.

There you have it, 7.1 surround thru an analog audio card.


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2010)

that assumes it had the 8 RCA inputs, he was saying the ones he looked at only had two.


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## Wile E (Jun 2, 2010)

Mussels said:


> that assumes it had the 8 RCA inputs, he was saying the ones he looked at only had two.



Shit. He's right, most of all the new low end models got rid of the analog ins. That's shitty. They did that on purpose to push HDMI I bet.

This is the cheapest I found with 7.1 analog ins. SAMSUNG 7.2-Channel Receiver HW-C700

Hat, you should try for a used receiver. I have an Onkyo TX-SR605, and it has 7.1 analog ins. http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?class=Receiver&m=TX-SR605&p=i Even the lower model SR505 had 7.1 analogs. http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?class=Receiver&m=TX-SR505

Here's a silver 505 on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/MINT-Onkyo-TX-S...wItem&pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item5d2959b357

Analog out into a good receiver like an Onkyo will sound a lot better than HDMI out into a cheap Sony POS.


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## hat (Jun 2, 2010)

Ah, so they do make them with analog... they're just pushing HDMI. Figures, heh

Is there any easy way to tell if it has 7.1 analog, save looking at each and every one of them?


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## Wile E (Jun 3, 2010)

hat said:


> Ah, so they do make them with analog... they're just pushing HDMI. Figures, heh
> 
> Is there any easy way to tell if it has 7.1 analog, save looking at each and every one of them?


Not that I've found.


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## hat (Jun 12, 2010)

I just had another thought on this old subject...

If I had say a 5.1 setup going over optical or coaxial SPDIF to a sound card and I wanted to do upmixing from stereo to 5.1... does the reciever now handle that, or does the sound card still hold the ability to upmix?


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 12, 2010)

Depend on the Receiver and the sound card.


they can BOTH upmix if they are designed to.




take for example my setup.
my sound card cannot upmix but my Z-5500 reciever can.

how ever it i had a decent sound card, i could use that instead to upmix before it got to the control pod.


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## hat (Jun 12, 2010)

Ah, so the sound card can still upmix as usual.

If the reciever can upmix, would it be better to use the reciever or the sound card as far as audio quality goes?


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 12, 2010)

i guess that all depends on the Quality of the reciver or the Sound Card.


i cant say witch would be better as i just dont know,


i guess you would choose witch ever device had higher quality. if you buy a top of the range sound card that would prolly be better then your high end receiver.

im prolly wrong but if i had to guess, thats how i see it.


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## m1dg3t (Jun 12, 2010)

A lil' l8 to the party but: Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 series or the Essence STX with break-out board, look for an AVR with BurrBrown DAC's/ADC's  Both card's have optical out through the S/PDIF 

HDMI really simplifies installation's and is a huge plus IMHO. I wish my external amp's were connected via HDMI!


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## Dent1 (Jun 12, 2010)

hat said:


> I just had another thought on this old subject...
> 
> If I had say a 5.1 setup going over optical or coaxial SPDIF to a sound card and I wanted to do upmixing from stereo to 5.1... does the reciever now handle that, or does the sound card still hold the ability to upmix?



The receiver can upmix stereo into Dolby Prologic 5.1/7.1 or DTS NEO 5.1

_Certain_ soundcards can encode and upmix stereo to Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1


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## hat (Jun 16, 2010)

I've noticed that recievers have two kinds of hookup for speaker wire... there's the clamp-in type and the screw-in type. I just got a stereo reciever and some speakers (one of them is broke) and I don't see how the speaker wire would go into a screw-in setup... how would this work?

This is what I mean:






Also, I saw these one newegg for $60... not looking for awesome speakers, just speakers that aren't broke. Are these speakers.. ok? Not terribly horrible?
BIC America DV-32B 3.5" 2-Way Compact Shielded Spe...


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## Wile E (Jun 16, 2010)

hat said:


> I've noticed that recievers have two kinds of hookup for speaker wire... there's the clamp-in type and the screw-in type. I just got a stereo reciever and some speakers (one of them is broke) and I don't see how the speaker wire would go into a screw-in setup... how would this work?
> 
> This is what I mean:
> http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/82-120-128-S09?$S640W$



Once you unscrew the post a little, there should be a slot on the sides.


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## hat (Jun 16, 2010)

Wile E said:


> Once you unscrew the post a little, there should be a slot on the sides.



For the screw-in.. there's a slot that opens up? ok

I edited my previous post so take another look at it... more questions... as always


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## Wile E (Jun 16, 2010)

hat said:


> For the screw-in.. there's a slot that opens up? ok
> 
> I edited my previous post so take another look at it... more questions... as always



Can you stretch your speaker budget to $100?

Polk Audio Monitor 30 Black Two-way bookshelf loud...


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## hat (Jun 16, 2010)

I guess that means they're shit, heh

I saw this speaker wire that comes with these pins that look like they would be used for the screw in connector type... you sure you wouldn't have to use something like this?
Cables Unlimited - Pro A/V Series 16GA Speaker Wir...


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## Wile E (Jun 16, 2010)

hat said:


> I guess that means they're shit, heh
> 
> I saw this speaker wire that comes with these pins that look like they would be used for the screw in connector type... you sure you wouldn't have to use something like this?
> Cables Unlimited - Pro A/V Series 16GA Speaker Wir...



Those connectors (They are 5 way binding posts, btw) work best with what's called a banana plug. They just plug directly into the center. Don't even have to unscrew the posts. http://monoprice.com/products/produ...=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=2801&seq=1&format=2

But, if you don't have the banana plugs, bare wire is the best. Those pins your are talking about don't allow proper preload on the post, and it works it's way loose with vibrations. I learned this from experience.

So, bare wire by unscrewing the post and screwing it down on top of the wire, or banana plugs. Nothing else works quite as well.


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## hat (Jun 16, 2010)

Those speakers you linked two have 4 spots for speaker wire... I understand the + and -, but what the other wires for? Center channel? They can hardly be both right and left at the same time... or would you run them both to the reciever in the same spot.. as in two in the - spot and two in the + spot?


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## Wile E (Jun 16, 2010)

hat said:


> Those speakers you linked two have 4 spots for speaker wire... I understand the + and -, but what the other wires for? Center channel? They can hardly be both right and left at the same time... or would you run them both to the reciever in the same spot.. as in two in the - spot and two in the + spot?
> 
> http://images17.newegg.com/is/image/newegg/82-290-094-S03?$S640W$



It's for Bi-amping. Notice the copper bridges between the top and bottom. You can remove those, and the top posts are for the tweeter, and the bottom posts are for the woofer. Need to have a reciever set up for biamping tho, or it can sound funny. 

Just leave the bridges in, run one set of wire for each speaker, and connect it to one of the positive and one of the negatives. Doesn't matter which.


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## hat (Jun 16, 2010)

Crap, this reciever doesn't have any way to control the bass. There's the bass boost button which gives MORE bass, but that's not what I'm looking for... I need to limit the bass so it's not so loud. I actually like the way it sounds now but the bass is already just about as loud as I can have it without it bleeding out of the room and I would like it to be louder, just without more bass..


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## hat (Jun 16, 2010)

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Dual-LS205E...em&pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item518dd2e358

Found this on ebay... what do you guys think of this? I want 2 for stereo L/R


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## Dent1 (Jun 16, 2010)

hat said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Dual-LS205E...em&pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item518dd2e358
> 
> Found this on ebay... what do you guys think of this? I want 2 for stereo L/R



As far as bookshelfs go they are terrible. Come on they are $16 :|

Give us a realistic budget and we can help you.


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## hat (Jun 16, 2010)

I would like to keep it "hat cheap"... for this, under $50 or so.

Just found out the reciever's casette player works... (this thing is older than dirt apparantly.. lol). There's actually two casette players... it appears the left casette player is near shot (garbage sound) but the right casette player comes out crystal clear, for a casette anyway.

How about these
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-SS-CBX1-Pa...em&pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item483ab0dc50

What's a really good material for an antenna? I live on the 1st floor of an apt building and it's patially underground... I'm currently using the broken speaker wire I mentioned before and it seems pretty good, but I'm looking for a really powerful antenna... the kind of thing that might let me get radio stations from out of state, or possibly even from another country (probably Canada is the only feasable foreign country). It would be really cool to get transmissions from like the other side of the world... but that's probably going to be like... a more powerful antenna than my very own radio tower, heh


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## hat (Jun 17, 2010)

Any ideas about speakers or an antenna? I was thinking maybe I should get a really long speaker wire and run it to my window and coil it around a few times..


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## hat (Jun 17, 2010)

How would this work as an antenna? Not using the whole thing but cutting off a length long enough to coil around my window like I said earlier..

http://cgi.ebay.com/Magnet-Wire-28-...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a07e928c6

I also heard something about running a wire to the ground part of an electrical outlet, thus using the whole building as an antenna? I want the best antenna possible but I don't want to endanger myself or the electrical system.. how would this work?

Could I use my box spring as an antenna? I was thinking maybe I could use the copper wire mentioned above to run from the reciever to the box spring in the bed and coil it around part of the box spring a few times and use that for reception, heh. I'm in a basement so my singal is really bad..


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## Wile E (Jun 18, 2010)

Speaker wore works fine for an antenna.

And come on Hat, spend a few dollars on decent speakers. For as often as your speakers are used, they are worth a few extra dollars.


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## hat (Jun 18, 2010)

New speakers won't be nescessary. The only reason I would be getting speakers was because I only had one working speaker. The other speaker had the wire going from the speaker cone to the terminal broken somehow... I manged to solder it, and the speaker works now. Of course the solder job was terrible as soldering the wire from the speaker cone to the terminal is very very difficult... but hey, it works.

Also, the reciever is half busted. Not only does the left casette player and cd player not work, but the right channel intermittently cuts out... I have to smack it to get it to work sometimes. I don't want to spend money on speakers for a half busted reciever, nor do I want to spend money on a reciever for half busted speakers...

My main area of interest is the antenna now. I am using the stock antenna, hooked up to the ground and 75 ohm spots. I am using a ~5yd 16ga wire on the 300ohm spot, but I still can't get Rock 104 to come in, unless I stand like in the middle of the floor and hold the wire. I tried coiling it around my bed and my window.. no luck. What should I do with this wire for the best reception?


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## Wile E (Jun 18, 2010)

hat said:


> New speakers won't be nescessary. The only reason I would be getting speakers was because I only had one working speaker. The other speaker had the wire going from the speaker cone to the terminal broken somehow... I manged to solder it, and the speaker works now. Of course the solder job was terrible as soldering the wire from the speaker cone to the terminal is very very difficult... but hey, it works.
> 
> Also, the reciever is half busted. Not only does the left casette player and cd player not work, but the right channel intermittently cuts out... I have to smack it to get it to work sometimes. I don't want to spend money on speakers for a half busted reciever, nor do I want to spend money on a reciever for half busted speakers...
> 
> My main area of interest is the antenna now. I am using the stock antenna, hooked up to the ground and 75 ohm spots. I am using a ~5yd 16ga wire on the 300ohm spot, but I still can't get Rock 104 to come in, unless I stand like in the middle of the floor and hold the wire. I tried coiling it around my bed and my window.. no luck. What should I do with this wire for the best reception?



Tape it to the ceiling?

Oh, and split the 2 strands and mess around with that.


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## hat (Jun 18, 2010)

This wire has like 20 strands... not 2. I wouldn't want to cut the cable open...


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## Wile E (Jun 18, 2010)

hat said:


> This wire has like 20 strands... not 2. I wouldn't want to cut the cable open...



Oh, I thought you were using speaker wire, that has 2 wires on it. I misread your post.

I say try the ceiling then. lol.


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## hat (Jun 18, 2010)

I was using speaker wire. That speaker wire is now soldered to the speaker it was broken off of, now that I managed to solder that speaker cone wire.


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## Wile E (Jun 18, 2010)

Worse come to worst, buy an amplified antenna, or at least a higher quality one. 

Or, if you are talking about Real Rock 104 out of the Youngstown (I always forget how close you live to me. 45min to an hour, tops), you could do this instead: http://player.cumulusstreaming.com/SLPLayer.aspx?WWIZ-FM


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## hat (Jun 18, 2010)

Yep, that station exactly. Internet radio.. bleh. What do you think I have a reciever for?


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## hat (Jun 18, 2010)

Tell, taping the wire to the ceiling didn't help very much... Rock 104 is still mostly static.


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## Wile E (Jun 19, 2010)

hat said:


> Yep, that station exactly. Internet radio.. bleh. What do you think I have a reciever for?



Hey, it's better than static. lol.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Channel-Master-3010-Outdoor-Rooftop-UHF-VHF-FM-HDTV-Antenna/13968949


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## hat (Jun 19, 2010)

I live in an apartment building... probably can't have that


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## Wile E (Jun 19, 2010)

hat said:


> I live in an apartment building... probably can't have that



I know, it was a joke buddy. I say try some rabbit ears. Might work a bit better than just the plain wire.

Or maybe run some speaker wire out your window.


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## hat (Jun 19, 2010)

I'm about to buy some speakers cause the speakers I have now are fine for radio, but they're just plain too broke to handle much else... crackly and such. My reciever says 8 ohms at the speaker input panel, does that mean I'm restricted to using only 8 ohms?


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 19, 2010)

speaker input or output?


as in where you plug the speakers in? that would be output.


you can use 8ohm or higher not lower speakers.


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## hat (Jun 19, 2010)

Yes, as in where the speaker wire goes.

What happens if I try to use lower than 8 ohm?


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## hat (Jun 19, 2010)

^^any ideas?


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## Mussels (Jun 20, 2010)

hat said:


> ^^any ideas?



you get more power. which also means more noise and static.


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 20, 2010)

if you use lower ohm speakers, wont it overload the amp?


thats how i blew up my amp. use'd 6s instead of 8s


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## Mussels (Jun 20, 2010)

slyfox2151 said:


> if you use lower ohm speakers, wont it overload the amp?
> 
> 
> thats how i blew up my amp. use'd 6s instead of 8s



blowing stuff up is possible too, since more power is going through than there should be.


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## hat (Jun 20, 2010)

I'm not gonna be running them at max power... not only would that get us evicted and piss off everyone around me, but I probably couldn't handle that much anyway


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## hat (Jun 20, 2010)

How are these? 8 ohm, 40 watt (not that I'll ever use even half that heh)

http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-SS-U21-8OH...em&pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item1c119faaaf


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## hat (Jun 20, 2010)

*Switched Aux Inputs?*

This has been bugging me for a while, figured I would throw this in too since this has become a general reciever thread, heh..

Anyways, it appears that the aux inputs on my reciever are switched. I'm using a 3.5mm to RCA cable, going from my sound card to an A/V switch. I noticed that something didn't sound quite right... sounds wern't where they should be. I went to the windows speaker configuration thing and sure enough right was left and left was right. The first thing I did was check that the speaker wires were in the right place, and they were. The second thing I did was bybass the A/V switch and plug the cable directly to the aux input of the reciever, and the channels were still switched. After that, I switched the speaker wires around, and that worked for aux, but the channels got switched for internal reciever functions (namely the radio). So, I tried a different cable like the one I meantioned before for the aux input, put the speaker wires back to thier correct position, and they were still switched... so I scratched my head, plugged red to white and white to red, and the sounds played correctly for aux, and for internal functions like the radio as well. The TV also worked.

I pretty much ruled out everything, leaving only the aux input in question... I would guess they're switched, how about you?


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## hat (Jun 21, 2010)

Bumping for interest in the previous question..


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## m1dg3t (Jun 22, 2010)

Does your AVR have channel labeling by any chance? Can you do a quick re-cap with what you have and what you are trying to do?


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## hat (Jun 22, 2010)

What do you mean channel labeling? If you are asking if the speaker outputs are labeled, then yes they are... I've never seen any reciever that doesn't have those labeled. I assure you everything is connected correctly.

I'm simply using my reciever with my computer but the channels appear switched... details are in post 101.


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## hat (Jun 24, 2010)

Bumping for someone to read post 101 and either agree with me saying the analog inputs on the reciever are switched, or point out some fatal flaw somewhere else that I happened to miss somehow...


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## hat (Jun 25, 2010)

My reciever is 95w. If I got speakers that were rated for say 300 watts, does that mean that my reciever just won't be able to run the speakers as loud as they can be, or does that mean that when I crank the volume all the way up, my speakers would be pulling 300 watts from the reciever and severely overdrawing from it?


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## Dent1 (Jun 25, 2010)

hat said:


> My reciever is 95w. If I got speakers that were rated for say 300 watts, does that mean that my reciever just won't be able to run the speakers as loud as they can be, or does that mean that when I crank the volume all the way up, my speakers would be pulling 300 watts from the reciever and severely overdrawing from it?



If your speakers were rated 300W it will be doubtful that the rating will be accurate, speaker ratings are often falsified even high end ones, 300W peak wattage at best. A 95W rated receiver could run a 300W speakers just fine, it just means that the receiver might run hotter and less efficiently under load but it will work fine regardless.


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## hat (Jun 25, 2010)

Still... is the reciever being overloaded or are the speakers not going to be run at thier full power?


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## Dent1 (Jun 25, 2010)

hat said:


> Still... is the reciever being overloaded or are the speakers not going to be run at thier full power?



The receiver will not be overloaded because it is unlikely that you will crack it up 100% volume consistantly on a regular basis, even at peak the speakers are unlikely to output 300W consistantly regardless of the speakers specification or receiver its connected to.

Do not get confused with input power and output power.

A some speakers can be 100W output but it does mean it needs a 100w input to drive them.




hat said:


> does that mean that my reciever just won't be able to run the speakers as loud as they can be





> Relationship of Watts and Loudness
> The relationship of wattage to sound level is often misunderstood. A doubling of wattage is required to increase the sound level by just three decibels, a minimum perceptible change to the human ear. An amplifier with 100 watts per channel cannot play 10 times louder than one with 10 watts per channel.


http://www.ehow.com/facts_4856590_what-speaker-wattage.html

So basically, even if your speakers were operating @ 95W despite the 300W rating there would only be a 3-4 decibel difference, which is inaudible by the human ear.


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## hat (Jun 25, 2010)

I doubt I would ever crank even my 20w speakers up to 100%, but this is theoretically speaking, not what would actually happen.


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## CJCerny (Jun 25, 2010)

The wattage of your speakers has almost nothing to do with anything. Their resistance rating is much more important. If they are 8 ohm speakers, then your receiver will be just fine since most modern receivers are built to be used with 8 ohm speakers. If they are 6 or 4 ohm speakers, your receiver is going to have to work much harder to drive them and could potentially overheat when driving 7 speakers simultaneously unless it has a very well built power supply, which most inexpensive ones don't. Fortunately, 6 and 4 ohm speakers are fairly rare.


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## Dent1 (Jun 25, 2010)

^Agreed, check the ohm rating on the receiver and speakers itself, some receivers allow you to toggle and select the desired ohm rating to match the speakers, so check the manual for that.


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## hat (Jun 25, 2010)

My reciever is strictly 8 ohms, and so were the speakers I were looking at. I'm just trying to make sure I wouldn't be overloading the reciever with speakers that have a higher wattage rating than the reciever...


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## Dent1 (Jun 25, 2010)

hat said:


> My reciever is strictly 8 ohms, and so were the speakers I were looking at. I'm just trying to make sure I wouldn't be overloading the reciever with speakers that have a higher wattage rating than the reciever...



If the speakers and receiver are both rated for 8ohms I do not think you'll have any issues. From what I understand if your receiver has an impedance of 8ohms but you connect 4ohm speakers the receiver will have to work almost twice as hard and hence creating heat and inefficiencies, although the speakers  will most probably still work without issue as the user is concerned there is a small possibility of damaging your equipment, but it’s unlikely, the quality of the receiver might dictate the likelihood of damage. But if the ohms are matching in your case you should be ok 

Post a few links of your receiver and the speakers that you're looking at!


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## hat (Jun 25, 2010)

The speakers are gone (someone outbid me on ebay) and the reciever is propably the oldest electronic thing in my room next to the radio thing on my barometer/hygrometer/thermometer...

What if I have a 4 ohm reciever and 8 ohm speakers?


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## Mussels (Jun 25, 2010)

hat said:


> The speakers are gone (someone outbid me on ebay) and the reciever is propably the oldest electronic thing in my room next to the radio thing on my barometer/hygrometer/thermometer...
> 
> What if I have a 4 ohm reciever and 8 ohm speakers?



iirc, they'd be really quiet.


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## hat (Jun 25, 2010)

Would there be any danger of breaking stuff?


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## Mussels (Jun 25, 2010)

hat said:


> Would there be any danger of breaking stuff?



i dont think so, but i'm not the expert on these things.


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## Wile E (Jun 25, 2010)

300W speakers do not draw 300W, they handle up to 300W. The receiver determines the wattage going to the speakers.

You can usually get away with 8 ohm loads on 4 ohm receivers, you just lose some output, like Mussels said. Putting 4 ohm on an 8 ohm receiver gives you more power, but the 8 ohm only receivers usually don't have the cooling capacity to handle the extra load caused by the higher outputs.

As for post 101, sounds like the inputs on the receiver are reversed.


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## m1dg3t (Jun 25, 2010)

Still wondering what AVR you are using? 

Most AVR's power rating's are highly over rated, speaker rating's also follow the same trend (as previously mentioned) It's easier to kill a speaker by underpowering/over driving it with "low" source power. As mentioned previously stick with the same impedance between source/driver's

Even if a speaker is rated at 300w peak that is only PEAK, very short term. Unless you have some high end driver's....


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## hat (Jun 25, 2010)

I can't find any info on the thing as far as what it actually is... all I know is it's optimus brand, and it was manufactured in 1995.


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## Wile E (Jun 25, 2010)

Optimus was an in-house Radio Shack brand. It was supposed to be the upper end of Realistic equipment when it released. Kinda like what Technics is to Panasonic.


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## hat (Jun 25, 2010)

Yeah, the closest thing I found to a model number is something that says something like "custom manufactured in Taiwan for Radio Shack".


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## m1dg3t (Jun 28, 2010)

Sound's like an older model so i doubt it has CH labling, any chance you can post some pic's of the front / back? There must be a model name / # on there somewhere....


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