# NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super Founders Edition



## W1zzard (Jul 2, 2019)

NVIDIA gave the GeForce RTX 20-series a midlife refresh with the new "Super" brand extension in the wake of AMD's upcoming Radeon Navi 7nm GPU. The RTX 2070 is based on the RTX 2080, which means SLI support and more shaders compared to the the original RTX 2070.

*Show full review*


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## Hades (Jul 2, 2019)

Hey w1zz! NVIDA in the title, correct it


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## dj-electric (Jul 2, 2019)

Some cheeky grey and red blower video card right now:


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## Zubasa (Jul 2, 2019)

dj-electric said:


> Some cheeky grey and red blower video card right now:


This is more of an Radeon VII killer more than anything.
It is not like that card needs more killing in games though.
More importantly there is finally something to replace the 1080ti for cheaper.


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## Fatalfury (Jul 2, 2019)

Looks like rtx 2070S is better buy than 2080 in value perpestive


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## chinmi (Jul 2, 2019)

Dayum, looks like a nice upgrades from 2070 there. I can be wrong, but looks like this card can make the rx5700xt doa. Unless amd reduced it's price to around the $300 sub range like $399


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## Space Lynx (Jul 2, 2019)

2070 super is def best bang for buck imo at $500


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## EarthDog (Jul 2, 2019)

Solid improvement and leaves enough space between it and the 2080.


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## kings (Jul 2, 2019)

It´s a good $499 card, given the market circumstances.

Makes the RTX 2080 and Radeon VII irrelevant at those prices!


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## Wavetrex (Jul 2, 2019)

Great job !
An chance of a review of something new that contains "80" and "S" in it's name ?

Or still under embargo until 23...


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## Deleted member 178884 (Jul 2, 2019)

Shame it's a lame refresh, Nvidia better get their crap together on 7nm.


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## Zubasa (Jul 2, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Shame it's a lame refresh, Nvidia better get their crap together on 7nm.


It is not like nVidia needs to do any better, as you can tell the lack of interest on the upcoming competing products.
It is not a matter of can nVidia give you something better, but the matter of why.
There is nothing stopping them selling the 7nm cards for similar price/performance and pocket any gains.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Jul 2, 2019)

Zubasa said:


> It is not like nVidia needs to do any better, as you can tell the lack of interest on the upcoming competing products.
> It is not a matter of can nVidia give you something better, but the matter of why.


Hopefully intel will enter the market and eventually go on to compete well against Nvidia in the future, or even challenge nvidia's low end lineup, AMD just needs the money to compete well enough and sadly they are still just too slow to launch out their GPUs.


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## W1zzard (Jul 2, 2019)

Hades said:


> Hey w1zz! NVIDA in the title, correct it


GRRRRR .. and in the URL too .. big fail


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## JRMBelgium (Jul 2, 2019)

I don't agree with the conclusion that the 2070 super isn't cheap. It really is compared to rtx2080 and Vega II.


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## Fluffmeister (Jul 2, 2019)

Yeah and with the 2080 Super coming and replacing the standard 2080 @ $699 the Radeon VII is gonna need a price cut.


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## Hades (Jul 2, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> GRRRRR .. and in the URL too .. big fail


It's okay sir, not a big deal, I just pointed it out for you  When is a 2080 Super review coming?


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## Berto74 (Jul 2, 2019)

As 2070 owner the performance uplift isn’t enough
For me to upgrade but if I was buying a new card for say 1070 replacement I think this is a good buy and worth the price point. 

Btw does anyone know if the E.T. and tensor core counts are the same or do the supers get more of those as well?

I meant rt cores damn autocorrect


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## W1zzard (Jul 2, 2019)

Hades said:


> It's okay sir, not a big deal, I just pointed it out for you  When is a 2080 Super review coming?


Appreciate it very much. I'm angry at myself for making such a mistake. Honestly no idea about 2080S, next up AMD. This is the craziest month in my career. The workload is unbelievable


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## Moofachuka (Jul 2, 2019)

So what's the point of getting a 2080ti assuming 2080s is going to be as fast for cheaper?


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## Mephis (Jul 2, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Shame it's a lame refresh, Nvidia better get their crap together on 7nm.



Were expecting a new architecture this quickly? With the competition as far behind as it is, we will be lucky to get a 7nm new architecture sometime next year. At this point, Nvidia doesn't need to move yet.


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## Hades (Jul 2, 2019)

Moofachuka said:


> So what's the point of getting a 2080ti assuming 2080s is going to be as fast for cheaper?


It's not.
The gap between 2060, 2070 and 2080 was actually really small, so the 2060S and the 2070S manage to be almost as fast as their bigger "non super" brothers. On the contrary, the bump for the 2080S isn't as big. Between 2080S and 2080Ti there's 1280 CUDA cores. It's a lot.


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## EarthDog (Jul 2, 2019)

Moofachuka said:


> So what's the point of getting a 2080ti assuming 2080s is going to be as fast for cheaper?





Hades said:


> It's not.
> The gap between 2060, 2070 and 2080 was actually really small, so the 2060S and the 2070S manage to be almost as fast as their bigger "non super" brothers. On the contrary, the bump for the 2080S isn't as big. Between 2080S and 2080Ti there's 1280 CUDA cores. It's a lot.


Right.

We've seen from reviews around a 10%+ improvement while still leaving 5-7% until the next card (in the res appropriate for the cards). The gap between the 2080 and 2080Ti was significant, 20%+ easily. So if there was ever room for a card between, THAT is the largest gap to fill.


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## kings (Jul 2, 2019)

Also, Nvidia could make a 2080Ti Super with the full chip, if they want to!


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## Zubasa (Jul 2, 2019)

Berto74 said:


> As 2070 owner the performance uplift isn’t enough
> For me to upgrade but if I was buying a new card for say 1070 replacement I think this is a good buy and worth the price point.
> 
> Btw does anyone know if the E.T. and tensor core counts are the same or do the supers get more of those as well?
> ...


RT Cores do scale in proportion to the number of CUs.
2070S has 40 vs 36 and 2060S has 34 vs 30.


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## Flying Fish (Jul 2, 2019)

Hey W1zzard on the 2060 review (page 3) it says

"The board uses a single 8-pin power connector. This input configuration is specified for up to 225 watts of power draw."

But on the 2070 review (page 3) it says...

"The board uses one 8-pin and one 6-pin power connector. This input configuration is specified for up to 225 watts of power draw. "

I think that's a wee bit short for a 6+8? Especially since you show on page 33 when power limit is maxed out it can be 260W...

Also your old RTX 2080 FE review says 225W too...so yeah the 2070 and 2080 seem to be 75W short.

(to be honest i wouldnt have noticed if i hadn't been reading them side by side and I only went to check the 2080 FE review on a whim...sorry i'm gonna go hide now!)


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## unikin (Jul 2, 2019)

NVidia 2070S turned out to be the best of the Turing bunch. It makes 2080 and Radeon VII DOA. GTX 1080TI performance with ray tracing for $500 is not bad value. AMD looks pretty silly right now.
I expect some drastic price drops weeks after lunch or Navi will be DOA.

I still think Nvidia is milking us big time rising margins to greedy heights, but AMD turned out to be even worse playing along with them and now Ngreedia stabbed them in the back.
That's what you get when you shit on your own fan base. All we wanted is a decent mid range priced GPU AMD


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## ZoneDymo (Jul 2, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> 2070 super is def best bang for buck imo at $500



1. No
2. Still not going to drop 500 bucks on a gpu that is suppose to be 350 - 400 dollars



unikin said:


> NVidia 2070S turned out to be the best of the Turing bunch. It makes 2080 and Radeon VII DOA. GTX 1080TI performance with ray tracing for $500 is not bad value. AMD looks pretty silly right now.
> I expect some drastic price drops weeks after lunch or Navi will be DOA.



Do you even know what DOA means? because what you just said makes no sense at all.....


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## Vayra86 (Jul 2, 2019)

+9% performance for just about +10% more power.

Smells like AMD refreshes. And the price tag really seals the deal.







Zubasa said:


> This is more of an Radeon VII killer more than anything.
> It is not like that card needs more killing in games though.
> More importantly there is finally something to replace the 1080ti for cheaper.



That's true, but let's face it, any second hand 1080ti should be going for that price or a good bit lower by now. Time moves on...

I suppose its a nice-ish deal if you are making a major jump, as in, you're still looking at a 970 or a 1060 or so.

Yep, seems about right... tomorrow these will land 50-75 eur lower... yay I guess


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## W1zzard (Jul 2, 2019)

Flying Fish said:


> "The board uses a single 8-pin power connector. This input configuration is specified for up to 225 watts of power draw."


Fail at math  Fixed! 8 pin = 150 W, 6 pin = 75 W, slot = 75 W


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## efikkan (Jul 2, 2019)

RTX 2070 Super looks to be a really good deal, and if I was in the market for a card right now, it would be really tempting.

Now let's see how the usual suspects will try to spin this one


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## unikin (Jul 2, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> +9% performance for just about +10% more power.
> 
> Smells like AMD refreshes. And the price tag really seals the deal.
> 
> ...



I agree 100 %. The best thing about Super release is that we'll be able to buy 2nd hand GTX 1080TI sub €400 price tag. Finally some serious affordable speed for us common peasants


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## Vayra86 (Jul 2, 2019)

unikin said:


> I agree 100 %. The best thing about Super release is that we'll be able to buy 2nd hand GTX 1080TI sub €400 price tag. Finally some serious affordable speed for us common peasants



Its not even about being able to afford, I just quite simply refuse to be ripped off  Patience is a virtue. Good things come to those who wait, etc etc

When Nvidia decides to get serious again about raw performance, they have a new chance at a sale


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## Deleted member 178884 (Jul 2, 2019)

Mephis said:


> With the competition as far behind as it is


Nice fanboyism, shame you're absolutely wrong. Pascal exists and renders RTX irrelevant for budget users and the mid range, 1080ti's are cheap these days and utterly smack anything RTX offers.


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## EarthDog (Jul 2, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Nice fanboyism, shame you're absolutely wrong. Pascal exists and renders RTX irrelevant for budget users and the mid range, 1080ti's are cheap these days and utterly smack anything RTX offers.


There is zero high end competition. AMD only competes in the midrange, budget areas. 

Pascal isnt technically competition.


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## DeOdView (Jul 2, 2019)

And so... It's rain a little harder on AMD's parade... 
Something about SUPER....  ZzZzzzz...   :\Snoring\

As for pricing...  $499 for 2070S, really?!?  A decent Graphic Card cost as much as the whole Console?? 
Cheaper than expensive is NOT cheap!  ATM. 
Sniff... sniffs... I smelled priced fixing...  :\Evillaughs\

Well, unless AMD do the same tricks back in the HD48xx & 58xx released prices and performances...  on their Navi release...

Good thing I don't go crazy with this expensive hobby, anymore. 

Cheer!


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## xkm1948 (Jul 2, 2019)

So basically RIP Radeon 7. $500 GPU beats a flagship using a 7nm node AND 16GB HBM2. Gotta press "F" for those who paid for Radeon 7.

At least GCN is now EOL. Not sure how RDNA can stack up to Turing but it is a good start. Next Monday we will see some actual benches of 5700XT and see if Navi is worthy of its $449 price tag.


Also question to @W1zzard , will you be reviewing 5700XT or the 5700XT 50 Anniversary edition?


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## W1zzard (Jul 2, 2019)

xkm1948 said:


> will you be reviewing 5700XT or the 5700XT 50 Anniversary edition?


If I had a choice I'd review the regular card. Somehow the anniversary does look like it was created only for reviewers to gain a few extra FPS over NVIDIA


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## dicktracy (Jul 2, 2019)

All the Super cards are threatening to the next higher tier of GPUs, like 2070 Super is almost a RTX 2080 at a lower price. I can only imagine how close the 2080 Super will be to the 2080 Ti at $700. A 2080 Ti Super is imminent by that logic.


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## EarthDog (Jul 2, 2019)

dicktracy said:


> All the Super cards are threatening to the next higher tier of GPUs, like 2070 Super is almost a RTX 2080 at a lower price. I can only imagine how close the 2080 Super will be to the 2080 Ti at $700. A 2080 Ti Super is imminent by that logic.


As I said here, or maybe another thread, there is a few/several percent gap between all Super cards and the next tier. The 2080 to 2080Ti gap is big, like well over 20% big so I don't imagine the 2080 super to be as close as the other cards were.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Jul 2, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> There is zero high end competition. AMD only competes in the midrange, budget areas.
> 
> Pascal isnt technically competition.


>"zero high end competition"
>Shilling a 2070 and 2060
These cards are literally mid range at best, lol.


EarthDog said:


> Pascal isnt technically competition.


That's because they had to implement RTX to even sell crappy refresh GPUs that are mediocre in improvement


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## xkm1948 (Jul 2, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> If I had a choice I'd review the regular card. Somehow the anniversary does look like it was created only for reviewers to gain a few extra FPS over NVIDIA




Thanks for the information!


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## londiste (Jul 2, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Nice fanboyism, shame you're absolutely wrong. Pascal exists and renders RTX irrelevant for budget users and the mid range, 1080ti's are cheap these days and utterly smack anything RTX offers.


Second-hand GTX 1080Ti went into mid-400 moneys prices at best. Today, RTX 2070 Super is a brand new card that gives the same performance at the same price.


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## Rahmat Sofyan (Jul 2, 2019)

ok, waiting for GTX1070 getting cheaper ... thanks nvidia


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## xkm1948 (Jul 2, 2019)

londiste said:


> Second-hand GTX 1080Ti went into mid-400 moneys prices at best. Today, RTX 2070 Super is a brand new card that gives the same performance at the same price.



And warranty


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## Deleted member 178884 (Jul 2, 2019)

londiste said:


> Second-hand GTX 1080Ti went into mid-400 moneys prices at best. Today, RTX 2070 Super is a brand new card that gives the same performance at the same price.


"same performance at the same price"
Yeah, no.


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## EarthDog (Jul 2, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> >"zero high end competition"
> >Shilling a 2070 and 2060
> These cards are literally mid range at best, lol.
> 
> That's because they had to implement RTX to even sell crappy refresh GPUs that are mediocre in improvement


There is a 2080 and 2080Ti which occupies the high-end segment that has no competition, hence the "zero high end competition" (from AMD) statement. But you said mid-range so... there's that.

With RTX, I get the hate and lack of value. But do remember that AMD has recently patented RT with hardware support (as in RTX) for a next gen GPU. You cannot get RT out without first having a GPU to do it. RT can't be in games without the hardware. Don't penalize the innovator. It will be more interesting to see what next gen NVIDIA will do with RT performance.


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## jabbadap (Jul 2, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Appreciate it very much. I'm angry at myself for making such a mistake. Honestly no idea about 2080S, next up AMD. This is the craziest month in my career. The workload is unbelievable



Wait for intel's dgpus...



Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> "same performance at the same price"
> Yeah, no.
> View attachment 126045



You do realize that those both are RTX 2070 cards?


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## W1zzard (Jul 2, 2019)

jabbadap said:


> Wait for intel's dgpus...


why? they won't be launching that many things. this month is nvidia: 3 cards + partner boards, amd: 4 cpus, amd: 2 cards


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## jabbadap (Jul 2, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> why? they won't be launching that many things. this month is nvidia: 3 cards + partner boards, amd: 4 cpus, amd: 2 cards



Just joking about your workload: it might get even worse.

Edit: No offence, I really appreciate your hard work.


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## PanicLake (Jul 2, 2019)

Sorry (not sorry) nVidia, still waiting to see how Navi will compare with price/performace/power.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Jul 2, 2019)

jabbadap said:


> You do realize that those both are RTX 2070 cards?


They are, one's called "super" and the other isn't


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## Mephis (Jul 2, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> Nice fanboyism, shame you're absolutely wrong. Pascal exists and renders RTX irrelevant for budget users and the mid range, 1080ti's are cheap these days and utterly smack anything RTX offers.



How is it fanboyism to point out that Nvidia has zero competition in the high end?  That is just the facts. I wish it weren't so, if AMD could challenge them at the top, we might see 7nm Nvidia cards before sometime ne t year.

And no, the 1080ti doesn't "utterly smack anything RTX offers". Maybe you should look at the performance summary charts, and the performance per dollar charts again.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Jul 2, 2019)

Mephis said:


> How is it fanboyism to point out that Nvidia has zero competition in the high end?


When did I say they don't? Learn how to read.


Mephis said:


> And no, the 1080ti doesn't "utterly smack anything RTX offers". Maybe you should look at the performance summary charts, and the performance per dollar charts again.


Maybe you should check UK pricing for a used 1080ti and used 2070 again, and not cherry pick titles to draw absurd conclusions.


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## Mephis (Jul 2, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> When did I say they don't? Learn how to read.



Seriously? You called me a fan boy for pointing out that there was no competition in the high end.


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## HammerON (Jul 2, 2019)

Okay folks, let's chill out on the "fan boy" discussion.  Take it to PM's please if you wish to continue.


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## bug (Jul 2, 2019)

Moofachuka said:


> So what's the point of getting a 2080ti assuming 2080s is going to be as fast for cheaper?


You make it sound like there was a point in getting the 2080Ti before


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## Deleted member 178884 (Jul 2, 2019)

Mephis said:


> Seriously? You called me a fan boy for pointing out that there was no competition in the high end.


You said "the competition as far behind as it is", the market doesn't involve just high end so specify and take this to a PM.


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## bug (Jul 2, 2019)

kings said:


> Also, Nvidia could make a 2080Ti Super with the full chip, if they want to!


Not much of a point, there isn't a lot left to unlock in the TU102: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-founders-edition/images/arch1.jpg


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## puma99dk| (Jul 2, 2019)

Hmm if the RTX 2080 Super gives at least 10% more then the original RTX 2080 maybe just maybe it's worthy of replacing my GTX 1080 Ti FE Hybrid 

If it ever happens I think my girl will just get my GTX 1080 Ti FE Hybrid in a new system and I will steal her EVGA GTX 1060 6GB and sell it


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## bug (Jul 2, 2019)

dicktracy said:


> All the Super cards are threatening to the next higher tier of GPUs, like 2070 Super is almost a RTX 2080 at a lower price. I can only imagine how close the 2080 Super will be to the 2080 Ti at $700. A 2080 Ti Super is imminent by that logic.


They're not threatening anything, the old model will be discontinued afaik.
With better yields Nvidia simply decided to make Navi's life miserable and gives us a little more HP for the same $$$.


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## erocker (Jul 2, 2019)

Minor, incremental improvements, prices are still bad. How unexciting.


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## jabbadap (Jul 2, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> They are, one's called "super" and the other isn't



Well the difference of those are like msi gaming X vs msi gaming Z, higher clocked sku are usually a bit more expensive. Just wonder if Palit will release RTX Super Super Jetstreams...


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## efikkan (Jul 2, 2019)

According to the Steam hardware survey, there are already four times as many RTX 2070s as Vega cards, and now with RTX 2070 Super offering more performance at the same price, and being an overall good deal, I expect this one to become a top seller very soon.


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## dj-electric (Jul 2, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> "same performance at the same price"
> Yeah, no.
> View attachment 126045


Hook, line and sinker.

Palit branded "Super Jetstream" as overclocked Jetstream versions. RTX 2070 Super is now called just "JS".

Super Jetstream:








						::Palit Products - GeForce RTX™ 2080 Super JetStream ::
					

The Palit JetStream風 series of graphics cards features advanced innovative cooling and an optimized product design to deliver the ultimate gaming performance. As the latest and the next generation NVIDIA Turing architecture features power efficiency, gaming experiences and latest gaming...




					www.palit.com
				



Super "JS":








						::Palit Products - GeForce® RTX 2070 SUPER™ JS ::
					

The Palit JetStream風 series of graphics cards features advanced innovative cooling and an optimized product design to deliver the ultimate gaming performance. As the latest and the next generation NVIDIA Turing architecture features power efficiency, gaming experiences and latest gaming...




					www.palit.com


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## Fluffmeister (Jul 2, 2019)

Now when it comes to the anniversary, is a Dr Lisa Su signature worth $50 bucks, for many in the Branch Waco I have no doubt it is, but it must be a hard sell now.

Who am I kidding, they will still lap them up.


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## Shatun_Bear (Jul 2, 2019)

As usual on this website, the first page of comments on a new Nvidia launch is a circle-jerk and digs at AMD being dead etc etc. Boring.

This is way too expensive for the performance when you can get cheap 1080 Tis, Vega 56's.


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## Fluffmeister (Jul 2, 2019)

Shatun_Bear said:


> As usual on this website, the first page of comments on a new Nvidia launch is a circle-jerk and digs at AMD being dead etc etc. Boring.
> 
> This is way too expensive for the performance when you can get cheap 1080 Tis, Vega 56's.



And to think, less than 5 months ago AMD launched the $699 Radeon VII, and the upcoming Navi cards aren't exactly cheap in comparison.

Not cheap, but not unexpected.... and yes the GTX 1080 Ti remains a high-end gem yet to be topped by those who shall remain angels.


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## xkm1948 (Jul 3, 2019)

Shatun_Bear said:


> As usual on this website, the first page of comments on a new Nvidia launch is a circle-jerk and digs at AMD being dead etc etc. Boring.
> 
> This is way too expensive for the performance when you can get cheap 1080 Tis, Vega 56's.




Used GPUs, warranty, man....



Fluffmeister said:


> Now when it comes to the anniversary, is a Dr Lisa Su signature worth $50 bucks, for many in the Branch Waco I have no doubt it is, but it must be a hard sell now.
> 
> Who am I kidding, they will still lap them up.




Nah they will not. Some of the most diehard AMD "fanboys" here at TPU rock Nvidia GPU. They just like the drama


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## John Naylor (Jul 3, 2019)

Zubasa said:


> This is more of an Radeon VII killer more than anything.
> It is not like that card needs more killing in games though.
> More importantly there is finally something to replace the 1080ti for cheaper.



The 2070 was a Radeon VII killer already... with both cards OC'd, the 2070 is 97% as fast as the VII for $200 less ... the VII is now 97% as fast as the 2070 super .... before overclocking.  After, according to TPU testing, it's 12% faster.  So I can't see the Radeon VII in any way, before and now,  as other than irrelevant.   The 2 Vegas combined have 0.26% market share with 23 months of sales ... the 2060 in a fraction of the time on market (just 5 months) now has more than 3 times as many units in use at 0.85%. The 1660 Ti is up 0.10% in market share this month the 580, AMDs best selling card, + 0.07%

As far as the 1080 Ti, let's talk "apples and apples"... new 1080 TIs, at least any model one would actually want to buy here in US,  are still selling for $1200 and up.

I don't feel comfortable talking about value until a) we have "real" pricing to quote, b) the AIB cards are available and c) the inflated cost due to the "I gotta be the 1st one on my block" crowd allows prices to stabilize for all cards in their respective price / performance tiers.


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## F-man4 (Jul 3, 2019)

2070S can’t SLI so I’ll pass it.


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## EarthDog (Jul 3, 2019)

F-man4 said:


> 2070S can’t SLI so I’ll pass it.


2080S will...

Curious why do you need and want anyway?


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## xkm1948 (Jul 3, 2019)

F-man4 said:


> 2070S can’t SLI so I’ll pass it.




Wait what? On this page W1zzard said it (2070 Super) supports NVLink SLI









						NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 Super Founders Edition Review
					

NVIDIA gave the GeForce RTX 20-series a midlife refresh with the new "Super" brand extension in the wake of AMD's upcoming Radeon Navi 7nm GPU. The RTX 2070 is based on the RTX 2080, which means SLI support and more shaders compared to the the original RTX 2070.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## EarthDog (Jul 3, 2019)

Well, that solves that curious quandry..


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## Zareek (Jul 3, 2019)

More utter disappointment! The best part is Jensen can't even be bothered to officially lower the price of the now inferior RTX2070 cards. I'd love to meet that greedy prick in a dark alley.


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## sergionography (Jul 3, 2019)

The best part about the 2070super is that it gives us a core vs core comparison once 5700xt is out. Same shader count and same memory subsystem.  And even clock speed probably going to be similar


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## EarthDog (Jul 3, 2019)

@W1zzard  - quick question.. the price you listed for the 2070 is for the reference model. Does the data correspond to the reference model or to the FE?


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## gridracedriver (Jul 3, 2019)

This card is excellent because it puts pressure on the VII on the perf / cost ratio, true that VII is also addressed to prosumers, but the alternative could be to cut the price of VII by $ 100 if it is possible considering the cost of hbm2 and put on the market gamer a MI60 with only 16GB hbm2 if this is possible, because I don't think the chip that replaces Vega20 is ready, Arcturus with RDNA2 + RT


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## W1zzard (Jul 3, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> @W1zzard  - quick question.. the price you listed for the 2070 is for the reference model. Does the data correspond to the reference model or to the FE?


Price is for the cheapest card I can  find on Newegg (have done it like that since forever).
Performance data is for FE indeed, but the difference is small. I know it's not optimal, but there is just no other way. There is no "reference" on the market, they all have at least higher power limit or a different cooler, which increases boosts too.


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## akumod77 (Jul 3, 2019)

Nvidia's logical price stacking 

in the past
960 $200 (midrange)
970 $330
1080 $550

still in the past
1060 $250 (midrange)
1070 $380
1080 $500

present day
2060 $400 (midrange)
2070 $500 
2080 $700

in the near future
3050 $400
3060 $500 (midrange)
3070 $700 
3080 $1000 

next in the near future 
4040 $400 
4050 $500 
4060 $700 (midrange)
4070 $1000 
4080 $1500 

again next in the near future 
5030 $400 
5040 $500 
5050 $700 
5060 $1000 (midrange)
5070 $1500 
5080 $2000 

again again next in the near future
6030 $500 
6040 $700 
6050 $1000 
6060 $1500 (midrange)
6070 $2000 
6080 $2500 

It never gonna end


----------



## bug (Jul 3, 2019)

akumod77 said:


> Nvidia's logical price stacking
> 
> in the past
> 960 $200 (midrange)
> ...


Once again, you still have your $250 mid-range part. It's called 1660Ti.


----------



## Zubasa (Jul 3, 2019)

sergionography said:


> The best part about the 2070super is that it gives us a core vs core comparison once 5700xt is out. Same shader count and same memory subsystem.  And even clock speed probably going to be similar


Although do note that for the 2070 Super, the core speed settles at 1845.
nVidia GPUs tends to exceed their rated clock speeds, while previous AMD GPUs tends to fall short.
So in pracice the 2070S will have around 100Mhz advantage stock.



gridracedriver said:


> This card is excellent because it puts pressure on the VII on the perf / cost ratio, true that VII is also addressed to prosumers, but the alternative could be to cut the price of VII by $ 100 if it is possible considering the cost of hbm2 and put on the market gamer a MI60 with only 16GB hbm2 if this is possible, because I don't think the chip that replaces Vega20 is ready, Arcturus with RDNA2 + RT


Even on AMD's own numbers, RX5700XT is very close or even surpass the Radeon VII in many games shwon.
If anything AMD can just phase out the Radeon VII. There is no point wasting 16GB of HBM2 memory on a gaming card.


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## londiste (Jul 3, 2019)

sergionography said:


> The best part about the 2070super is that it gives us a core vs core comparison once 5700xt is out. Same shader count and same memory subsystem.  And even clock speed probably going to be similar


Actually, it gives us the second data point of a like-for-like comparison - RX5700 vs RTX2070 and RX5700XT vs RTX2070S 
Clocks are a mess but surely we can find a way to have both sets of cards run at the same clock speed.
2304:144:64 vs 2304:144:64 - 36 CU/GPC
2560:160:64 vs 2560:160:64 - 40 CU/GPC


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## bug (Jul 3, 2019)

Zubasa said:


> Even on AMD's own numbers, RX5700XT is very close or even surpass the Radeon VII in many games shwon.
> If anything AMD can just phase out the Radeon VII. There is no point wasting 16GB of HBM2 memory on a gaming card.


It's hard to do that when Radeon VII never really phased in. It was always a low volume card (remember some countries getting just 5 units at launch?).


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## Fluffmeister (Jul 3, 2019)

I think the Radeon VII was basically just a "we are still here card!" as their then top dog card Vega 64 was getting beat by Nvidia's "midrange" card.


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## EarthDog (Jul 3, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Price is for the cheapest card I can  find on Newegg (have done it like that since forever).
> Performance data is for FE indeed, but the difference is small. I know it's not optimal, but there is just no other way. There is no "reference" on the market, they all have at least higher power limit or a different cooler, which increases boosts too.


ok.. got it. Indeed not optimal. 

its confusing from other sites who list a static (typically MSRP) price. I never noticed it changing. I searched to get the price for the FE in this review expecting it to be a static and comparable value (instead it's a pc part picker thing. Adding an FE at the would clarify which card it is, performance difference little or not. 

Thanks for the clarification on process.


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## W1zzard (Jul 3, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> who list a static (typically MSRP) price


Which is completely inaccurate, because people care about pricing today?


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## EarthDog (Jul 3, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Which is completely inaccurate, because people care about pricing today?


Your price is already not accurate and the review isnt 24 hours old ($479 unit as of 3 mins ago). At least with a static msrp value listed and noted, users are aware. You can also add newegg/Amazon links in parenthesis with the current lowest price (that Skimbit yo! ). It could also show a price trend which is valuable throughout the review cycle and defines bookends of a trend. 

Now I know, for msrp pricing, we need to go to first review. 

Edit: is there any other site which uses current for time of the review pricing?


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## bug (Jul 3, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Which is completely inaccurate, because people care about pricing today?


Yeah, I was going to say that. Some cards hold their value better than others (and then there's Asus), your approach seems to be the most helpful. Sure, FE is a little TDP constraint, but that only means IRL you'll be betting a bit more bang for your buck.


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## Xaled (Jul 3, 2019)

Good card but simply still overpriced. 
IMHO The conslusion is too much biased.
Trying to justify the high price of an existing product (2070 super) while asking for a price cut for a product that hasn't been released yet (Rx 5700xt, last paragraph). 
You could've wait at least for the release of 5700xt to make such certain statements (e.g. 5700xt will def. not able to match RTX 2070 S, 50$ price increase very justifiable) or at least use much more probability.


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## akumod77 (Jul 3, 2019)

bug said:


> Once again, you still have your $250 mid-range part. It's called 1660Ti.



Ok....... what about 6060 (midrange) price then ? Is it gonna be $250 or $1500 ?


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## bug (Jul 3, 2019)

akumod77 said:


> Ok....... what about 6060 (midrange) price then ? Is it gonna be $250 or $1500 ?


I'm not playing this game.


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## akumod77 (Jul 3, 2019)

I'm gonna predict 7060 (midrange) gonna to be like $2000 then .......


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## SIGSEGV (Jul 3, 2019)

> The RX 5700 XT *will definitely* not be able to match RTX 2070 Super performance, and we're having doubts about whether thermals or noise will end up being comparable, which could make the $50 price increase to the Super very justifiable for potential customers, or force AMD to reduce their pricing.



oh sh*t, was this your opinion or based fact?
and 500 EUR? lol
sh*t, we really need a true competitor who fights this greedy approach.
I don't think AMD Radeon will match NVIDIA in near future.  Oh no, this is a disaster.

edit: both ps5 and XBOX next gen are promising. let's see the red team counter-attack to this f*cking greedines. /endofrant


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## Xaled (Jul 3, 2019)

akumod77 said:


> I'm gonna predict 7060 (midrange) gonna to be like $2000 then .......


No, it would cost much much less, it will cost 1500$ and that would be a good price because it will give the performance of 5080 Ti with a bunch new still-useless only-adopted-by-3-to-5-games features


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## z1n0x (Jul 3, 2019)

> The RX 5700 XT will definitely not be able to match RTX 2070 Super performance...


This is really curious statement.


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## londiste (Jul 3, 2019)

RX 5700 XT should be right in the middle of RTX 2070 and RTX 2070 Super:








						AMD Patent Shines Raytraced Light on Post-Navi Plans
					

That's too much. I was looking for the link. This is probably the best one:    Well. I stand corrected then, was 5-7% over that :)     There's also no 'magical' ray-tracing hardware or software improvements.   Ironically there is, we call it rasterization :D Pre cooked RT sans the real time part ;)




					www.techpowerup.com


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## matar (Jul 3, 2019)

Please bring Back Crysis 3 to the list of games for the benchmarks its still a game that stresses even the latest GPUs.


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## frdmftr (Jul 4, 2019)

I think NVIDIA after many years is priced acceptably again. Since the 6XX series we have been getting smaller and smaller GPU dies for the respective series. Looking back you can see the die size of the X80 series cards much smaller than in the past. The 6,9 and 1080 cards all used a mid sized GPU die. I'm sure this was due to the lack of competition.  At least with the 980 the smaller die came with a lower price at $550. Going back to the  GTX 280 you got a 576mm2 chip for $649 and now 11 years later the 2080S will be a 545mm2 chip for $699. Sure the 480, 580 and 680 were all $500 but Firmi had issues (and competition) and the 680 was a 294mm2 chip. 

Before anyone calls me a green fan boy two things. I have not owned a NVIDIA card since my GTX 260 and two; when the 1080 series came out I posted on on these very forums how NVIDIA was hosing us by charging $600 for a 314mm2 GPU.  

Anyone who bought a 1080 has every right to complain about pricing, paying $600+ for a chip size that historically sold in the $2-300 range was hosed IMO.


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## erixx (Jul 4, 2019)

2080 Super review out! https://www.techpowerup.com/review/palit-geforce-rtx-2080-super-jetstream/ 



Spoiler: Lots of!












						NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER Specs
					

NVIDIA TU104, 1815 MHz, 3072 Cores, 192 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 8192 MB GDDR6, 1937 MHz, 256 bit




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## z1n0x (Jul 4, 2019)

AMD's management and marketing incompetence making nVidia looks good yet again.  
As for people celebrating, x60 at 400$ and x70 at 500$...


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## bug (Jul 4, 2019)

z1n0x said:


> AMD's management and marketing incompetence making nVidia looks good yet again.
> As for people celebrating, x60 at 400$ and x70 at 500$...


Wth dude. For once, AMD's engineering, management and marketing are doing a great job. It's just they were in too deep a hole to fix both their CPU and GPU business at once.
With the money from Zen, they might be able to fix their GPUs, too, given time. But I guess that depends on what talent they have left, after so many have jumped ship to Intel.


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## z1n0x (Jul 4, 2019)

bug said:


> Wth dude. For once, AMD's engineering, management and marketing are doing a great job. It's just they were in too deep a hole to fix both their CPU and GPU business at once.
> With the money from Zen, they might be able to fix their GPUs, too, given time. But I guess that depends on what talent they have left, after so many have jumped ship to Intel.



AMD gave away all details on their gpus month in advance, giving nVidia ample time to interject and make themselves look good again after all the milking they did.
AMD should've stayed quiet and surpise launch them at reasonable prices 5700 at 299$, 5700XT at 349$ , and they would have crushed nVidia's mindshare.
Instead we have a situation where people are calling these "Super" cards great and what they should've been from the begining, completely ignoring the fact what x60, x70, x80 cost, in the no so distant past.
AMD on the other hand are yet again left looking stupid.
So if they are not incompetent, they are complicit with nVidia on screwing up gamers. Thing is nVidia have much much better marketing game, which help them get away with shit.
I can't believe i'm rooting for Intel (i don't like them one bit) and their gpus to hopefully make some difference on this shitty gpu market.


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## bug (Jul 4, 2019)

z1n0x said:


> AMD gave away all details on their gpus month in advance, giving nVidia ample time to interject and make themselves look good again after all the milking they did.
> AMD should've stayed quiet and surpise launch them at reasonable prices 5700 at 299$, 5700XT at 349$ , and they would have crushed nVidia's mindshare.
> Instead we have a situation where people are calling these "Super" cards great and what they should've been from the begining, completely ignoring the fact what x60, x70, x80 cost, in the no so distant past.
> AMD on the other hand are yet again left looking stupid.
> ...


Yeah, that's not how the industry works. Nvidia doesn't rely on public announcements to know what AMD is working on. And vice-versa.


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## Xaled (Jul 4, 2019)

bug said:


> Yeah, that's not how the industry works. Nvidia doesn't rely on public announcements to know what AMD is working on. And vice-versa.


They rely on who then? spies?


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## EarthDog (Jul 4, 2019)

Xaled said:


> They rely on who then? spies?


insider information like anyone else.


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## bug (Jul 4, 2019)

Xaled said:


> They rely on who then? spies?


Despite what many people think, GPU are shaped into the academic realm first. The possible advancements are known years (and in some cases decades) before the technology to put them into silicon catches up. Then there's the fact that the really good guys at these jobs know each other and exchange ideas at various conferences (NDAs apply, of course, but you can still glimpse directions). You can look at the talent a company pursues. There are many ways.

In this particular case, all Nvidia had to do was to look at AMD's budget for Navi to conclude it's not going to be something revolutionary.


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## Xaled (Jul 4, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> insider information like anyone else.


Design new cards, produce them, price them and then release them relying on an insider information is just not ethical at all. Even Intel with its notorious incidents against AMD havent done that yet. 
But imo they not only have an insider that steals information for them I think they have an insider that let AMD just keep hurting the GPU department. Or maybe they have an agreement with Lisa-Su, you know the cousin of Nvidias owner. 
Oh and please, please don't start the AMD wanted to focus on CPU section bullshit again. When AMD bought ATI each were doing great and the merge should've made each one of them better instead of hurting both


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## bug (Jul 4, 2019)

Xaled said:


> Design new cards, produce them, price them and then release them relying on an insider information is just not ethical at all. Even Intel with its notorious incidents against AMD havent done that yet.
> But imo they not only have an insider that steals information for them I think they have an insider that let AMD just keep hurting the GPU department. Or maybe they have an agreement with Lisa-Su, you know the cousin of Nvidias owner.
> Oh and please, please don't start the AMD wanted to focus on CPU section bullshit again. When AMD bought ATI each were doing great and the merge should've made each one of them better instead of hurting both


Yeah, but AMD went on to make K10 and then had to rely on the GPU division to keep them afloat. Everyone makes the wrong decision every now and then *cough*10nm*cough*, the trick is to be able to cushion those.


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## EarthDog (Jul 4, 2019)

Xaled said:


> Design new cards, produce them, price them and then release them relying on an insider information is just not ethical at all. Even Intel with its notorious incidents against AMD havent done that yet.


lol, really? Trying to figure out what the competition is up to is unethical? Wow. If that's unethical, you must constantly feel like vomiting with all the real unethical BS going on. 

AMD does the same thing.. dont kid yourself.


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## Xaled (Jul 4, 2019)

bug said:


> Yeah, but AMD went on to make K10 and then had to rely on the GPU division to keep them afloat. Everyone makes the wrong decision every now and then *cough*10nm*cough*, the trick is to be able to cushion those.


K10 is a drop in a see and was the only forgivable mistake imo. 
But what about releasing products that are slower than your current ones or the opponent's? (Bulldozer) Or slightly faster but too much more expensive? (The cards with HBM that I don't even remember it's name) Bad pricing? (Like in 7xxx and the following series)   always having no plan Bs? Rebranding  3 times a year for a decade? 
All what they did, especially in GPU department was in opponent's favour

Since the 7xxx series  AMD is doing nothing but making Nvidia look always great


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## Durvelle27 (Jul 5, 2019)

So basically my 2070 is worthless now


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## Fluffmeister (Jul 5, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> So basically my 2070 is worthless now



Yes, also you must give it to me and pay shipping. Thanks!


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## EarthDog (Jul 5, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> So basically my 2070 is worthless now


lol, wut? How does this make your card useless now?


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## bug (Jul 5, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> So basically my 2070 is worthless now


Like @EarthDog said, care to elaborate?


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## jabbadap (Jul 5, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> So basically my 2070 is worthless now



Well that is basically  https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=08G-P4-3163-KR now, when ever that hit the shelves at in what ever price. Probably much more than $399 for vanilla 2060S, but much less than $599 of your card.


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## Durvelle27 (Jul 6, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> lol, wut? How does this make your card useless now?


Because Nvidia assley release a card with the same price tag  that offers almost a 20% performance boost barely a year later


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## EarthDog (Jul 6, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> Because Nvidia assley release a card with the same price tag  that offers almost a 20% performance boost barely a year later


try around 10% and it's still not useless.


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## bug (Jul 6, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> Because Nvidia assley release a card with the same price tag  that offers almost a 20% performance boost barely a year later


Take them to court. I mean, you clearly had it in your contract that once you buy their card, they're not allowed to release something faster without your permission, don't you?
Because clearly the fact that you can still play today the same games you were playing a month ago seems to escape you.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 6, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> Because Nvidia assley release a card with the same price tag  that offers almost a 20% performance boost barely a year later



What else is new? If this surprises you, buy a console. I hear they do release new versions from time to time though, so you've been warned.

Man... this topic and the average comments


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## Durvelle27 (Jul 6, 2019)

bug said:


> Take them to court. I mean, you clearly had it in your contract that once you buy their card, they're not allowed to release something faster without your permission, don't you?
> Because clearly the fact that you can still play today the same games you were playing a month ago seems to escape you.


The difference is Nvidia released the card to basically replace the 2070 at the same price tag while actually being faster. It would have been different if it was a new product with a different naming scheme that superceeded the 2070 while the 2070 remaineded. Instead we get a card that’s  basically a supercharged 2070 that replaces our 2070 which also knocks the value of our cards way down. 

Nvidia pulled a dick move on 2060 & 2070 owners by making our cards obsolete. 




Vayra86 said:


> What else is new? If this surprises you, buy a console. I hear they do release new versions from time to time though, so you've been warned.
> 
> Man... this topic and the average comments


FYI I have a PS4 and Xbox One X


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## bug (Jul 6, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> The difference is Nvidia released the card to basically replace the 2070 at the same price tag while actually being faster. It would have been different if it was a new product with a different naming scheme that superceeded the 2070 while the 2070 remaineded. Instead we get a card that’s  basically a supercharged 2070 that replaces our 2070 which also knocks the value of our cards way down.
> 
> Nvidia pulled a dick move on 2060 & 2070 owners by making our cards obsolete.


Right, so if they wrote 2075 on the box instead, that would have been fine. But 2070 obsoletes your card. What a prime candidate for a Darwin award we have here...


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## jabbadap (Jul 6, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> The difference is Nvidia released the card to basically replace the 2070 at the same price tag while actually being faster. It would have been different if it was a new product with a different naming scheme that superceeded the 2070 while the 2070 remaineded. Instead we get a card that’s  basically a supercharged 2070 that replaces our 2070 which also knocks the value of our cards way down.
> 
> Nvidia pulled a dick move on 2060 & 2070 owners by making our cards obsolete.
> 
> FYI I have a PS4 and Xbox One X



2060? 2060S costs $50 more and is not replacing that, in other hand 2070S makes 2080(And Radeon VII) a bit obsolete. 2070 and 2080 are the cards which are now EOL, vanilla 2060 might go on that route soon after navi pre-launch price drop... Unless nvidia do very anti-nvidia thing and lower the price of that card. But that would probably effect the pricing of 16 -series too, so I very much doubt it.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jul 6, 2019)

Still knockin heads with 1080 Ti?


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## Fluffmeister (Jul 6, 2019)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Still knockin heads with 1080 Ti?



Heh true, and I'm sure the GTX 1080 Ti review comments section included the words "milked" and "Ngreedia" somewhere too. Over two years later and it still holds it's own.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jul 6, 2019)

Fluffmeister said:


> Heh true, and I'm sure the GTX 1080 Ti review comments section included the words "milked" and "Ngreedia" somewhere too. Over two years later and it still holds it's own.



Depends how much you need/want ray tracing.


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## Fluffmeister (Jul 6, 2019)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Depends how much you need/want ray tracing.



For sure, but it's good to see 1080 Ti performance can now be had for $499 regardless of the RTRT support. The Radeon VII for example launched @ $699 and fell short of the 1080 Ti too, and is still $180 more than this now.


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## algamer (Jul 7, 2019)

2070super is definitely beats price/perf with RTX2080 and radeon 7 and 1080ti


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## 64K (Jul 7, 2019)

If you can actually get a 2070 Super for $500 then thay will probably sell but I just checked Newegg and the Nvidia store and some of the regular 2070s were selling for over $500.


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## bug (Jul 7, 2019)

64K said:


> If you can actually get a 2070 Super for $500 then thay will probably sell but I just checked Newegg and the Nvidia store and some of the regular 2070s were selling for over $500.








						Amazon.com: EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 Black GAMING,8GB GDDR6, Dual HDB Fans Graphics Card 08G-P4-1071-KR: Gateway
					

Buy EVGA GeForce RTX 2070 Black GAMING, 8GB GDDR6, Dual HDB Fans Graphics Card 08G-P4-1071-KR: Graphics Cards - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				




The Supers aren't even available for a few more days. And yes, there's the initial markup/early adopter fee. There always is.


----------



## jabbadap (Jul 7, 2019)

64K said:


> If you can actually get a 2070 Super for $500 then thay will probably sell but I just checked Newegg and the Nvidia store and some of the regular 2070s were selling for over $500.



Uhm actual availability for 2060S and 2070S is 9th of July as it said in review, so check back in Tuesday. 2080S will be available later at 23th July.


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 8, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> So basically my 2070 is worthless now


It is? It doesn’t play games the same as it did before Super came out?



Durvelle27 said:


> Because Nvidia assley release a card with the same price tag  that offers almost a 20% performance boost barely a year later


Okay. That doesn’t invalidate the performance of your card any. It just means the new one is overkill.


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## EarthDog (Jul 8, 2019)

rtwjunkie said:


> It just means the new one is overkill.


It doesn't mean that either. Just that it is faster. He may not be satisfied with current performance......who knows. lol


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 8, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> It doesn't mean that either. Just that it is faster. He may not be satisfied with current performance......who knows. lol


What I mean is (and I should have been clearer), if the card already played the IQ and FPS he wants, then anything beyond that is extra, or overkill as far as his needs are concerned.


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## EarthDog (Jul 8, 2019)

I accounted for that, yup. 

Im just surprised at that sentiment from someone(anyone really) who has been here for so long with so many posts and would seemingly know how the process works by now.


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