# Weird Ryzen Mobile behavior (3500U)



## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 7, 2019)

Evening,
I recently got a mid-range laptop with a Ryzen 5 3500U and noticed some strange behavior with power consumption and clock speeds;
I would launch a light game, the CPU clocks would sit around the 2.4-2.9Ghz range, GPU clocks vary from game to game I guess but it usually starts at 900Mhz to 1.1Ghz, everything is cool, temps are in check (sub 70c), no thermal throttling, plugged in, everything's great. A couple minutes later, the CPU clocks drop to 2Ghz or under, GPU goes all the way down to 400-500Mhz and stays there regardless of the load/temp. CPU package power goes from the normal 10-11 watts down to 5-6 watts for no apparent reason. And the strange thing is that it stays like that for the rest of the gaming session, regardless of what happens. Same behavior whether the laptop is plugged in or not, it doesn't matter.

I tried every solution available (except Ryzen Controller which I don't wanna use), added hidden power options through cmd and tweaked them, windows battery slider is always on Best Performance...etc to no avail. No matter what options I change, it always behaves the same.
I also don't understand why it doesn't hit the advertised 15 watts TDP, it's designed to reach that so why is it not doing so? even when I stress test the CPU, FPU and RAM, it only ever scratches 12 watts max.

Provided some screenshots from AIDA64 to illustrate the problem.
This is driving me crazy, if anyone has any idea what the hell is happening and how to fix it your help is appreciated.
Thanks.


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## Darmok N Jalad (Dec 7, 2019)

What laptop is it? It's possible the laptop's cooling is only good for 15W in short bursts, and then the chip TDP-downs to something less. Also, what do you have for settings on your CPU power plan?


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 7, 2019)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> What laptop is it? It's possible the laptop's cooling is only good for 15W in short bursts, and then the chip TDP-downs to something less. Also, what do you have for settings on your CPU power plan?


The first screenshot shows the temps graph. Max reached was 63c, nowhere near throttling territories.
What do you mean by CPU power plan?


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## Zach_01 (Dec 7, 2019)

gwynbleidd997 said:


> The first screenshot shows the temps graph. Max reached was 63c, nowhere near throttling territories.
> *What do you mean by CPU power plan?*


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 7, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> View attachment 138764


Test was done while plugged in so don't worry about the 20% on Battery.


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## Zach_01 (Dec 8, 2019)

Laptop brand as @Darmok N Jalad already asked?
Since you checked so many aspects so far, only one thing I can think of... The laptop vendor could have some kind of restriction either through BIOS or through owned pre-installed software.


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 8, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> Laptop brand as @Darmok N Jalad already asked?
> Since you checked so many aspects so far, only one thing I can think of... The laptop vendor could have some kind of restriction either through BIOS or through owned pre-installed software.


It's an Acer Aspire 5, not exactly enthusiast friendly I know but I googled this problem and people with Lenovos, HPs... all have the same issue so I suspect it might be an AMD thing.


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## Darmok N Jalad (Dec 8, 2019)

gwynbleidd997 said:


> The first screenshot shows the temps graph. Max reached was 63c, nowhere near throttling territories.
> What do you mean by CPU power plan?


I don't mean that it is throttling, but that the laptop OEM has setup the BIOS to reduce clocks when certain thresholds are reached so temps don't get too high. Laptops have to be more mindful about max temp since there is limited space for removing heat, and they don't want to damage neighboring components or possibly even burn the user.

EDIT:
Also, this isn't just limited to AMD. Intel mobile CPUs have also been reported to throttle. Your model looks more like an ultrabook form factor, and those were never meant for serious gaming, so it may just be a design limitation. For serious gaming on a laptop, you need the thicker models that have ample cooling.


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 8, 2019)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> I don't mean that it is throttling, but that the laptop OEM has setup the BIOS to reduce clocks when certain thresholds are reached so temps don't get too high. Laptops have to be more mindful about max temp since there is limited space for removing heat, and they don't want to damage neighboring components or possibly even burn the user.
> 
> EDIT:
> Also, this isn't just limited to AMD. Intel mobile CPUs have also been reported to throttle. Your model looks more like an ultrabook form factor, and those were never meant for serious gaming, so it may just be a design limitation. For serious gaming on a laptop, you need the thicker models that have ample cooling.


That's exactly what I'm trying to find out, what those certain thresholds are because where I'm standing, there doesn't seem to be anything that should hold back performance in any way.
I never said my goal was serious gaming, I already have a desktop PC for that, as I stated I was just enjoying some casual light games that run perfectly fine on the integrated Vega 8 iGPU (like Dishonored 2012 in the screenshots). I paid for 512 shader units at ~1.2Ghz but getting 400-500Mhz instead, however low-tier the performance the iGPU provides, I want to be able to use all of it.

EDIT: This guy also has an Acer Aspire (lower tier 3) with the exact same CPU and he can hold around 800-900Mhz for long periods of time where I can only do like 1-2 minutes max.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 8, 2019)

Could be the motherboard throttling than the cpu if cpu temps are decent.
You still have a VRM and Chipset that can cause this type of issue.
Can you monitor these peripherals?


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## Darmok N Jalad (Dec 8, 2019)

gwynbleidd997 said:


> That's exactly what I'm trying to find out, what those certain thresholds are because where I'm standing, there doesn't seem to be anything that should hold back performance in any way.
> I never said my goal was serious gaming, I already have a desktop PC for that, as I stated I was just enjoying some casual light games that run perfectly fine on the integrated Vega 8 iGPU (like Dishonored 2012 in the screenshots). I paid for 512 shader units at ~1.2Ghz but getting 400-500Mhz instead, however low-tier the performance the iGPU provides, I want to be able to use all of it.
> 
> EDIT: This guy also has an Acer Aspire (lower tier 3) with the exact same CPU and he can hold around 800-900Mhz for long periods of time where I can only do like 1-2 minutes max.


Based on what you’re describing, it sounds like a limit not based on the APU, but possibly the motherboard as suggested above. Does this model take in air from underneath the chassis? Either way, maybe try elevating the bottom so you get better airflow underneath.  It sounds like some thermal threshold is being reached and so it engages a TDP-down.


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## biffzinker (Dec 8, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Could be the motherboard throttling than the cpu if cpu temps are decent.
> You still have a VRM and Chipset that can cause this type of issue.
> Can you monitor these peripherals?


I was wondering if the OEM may have put a power  limit in the BIOS for the VRM section could be a  temperature limit for the VRM as well.


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 8, 2019)

@ShrimpBrime @Darmok N Jalad @biffzinker I was determined to know what the hell was happening, so I pulled out my 9000 BTU portable air conditioner (I think you know where this is going), positioned the laptop on its side and the air conditioner directly facing the bottom intake side of the laptop, turned it on and left it doing its magic.
Idle temps were between 12-15c (APU), when it reached thermal equilibrium, I launched Dishonored again to replicate the same scenario from last time and taadaa, the exact same thing happened again while plugged in (see attach.)
So I can confirm this has absolutely nothing to do with temps of any component including VRMs, as the backcover was so frosty I was concerned about condensation. This seems to be programmed in, like a turbo boost window of some sort, even if you cool it with god damn LN2 it will still throttle back after 1-2 minutes. Good job to whoever thought this was a good idea.

PS: The graphs might seem smaller but that's because I changed the graph refresh rate from 1 second to 2 seconds, it's otherwise the exact same result from last time.


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## Zach_01 (Dec 8, 2019)

Yeah, the "on-purpose" throttling was making more sense to me from the beginning, but its always usefull to rule out stuff (as obvious as the may be) by testing them. Wasnt false advice by any means.


Zach_01 said:


> Laptop brand as @Darmok N Jalad already asked?
> Since you checked so many aspects so far, only one thing I can think of... The laptop vendor could have some kind of restriction either* through BIOS* or through owned *pre-installed software*.


Have you check any of this yet? If anything is visible or accessible of course...

There are a few reasons why any vendor would do such a thing... could be for the heat reduction configuration/design, could be for the power delivery (VRM) a couple I can think of leading down to longevity of the system as a whole. Maybe one of them or both of them cannot guarantee sustainable operation for large amounts of time and for the years to come, so the laptop manufacturer cuts down power/heat before anything bad happens. Heat tends to soak for the first 20~30min of usage on any PC (Desktop or Laptop) Especially configurations relied mostly on passive heat dissipation.

*EDIT*
Is this you product?
Aspire A515-43

Anything on ACER caring Center?

What is your BIOS version?


			Product Support | Acer United Kingdom


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 8, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> Yeah, the "on-purpose" throttling was making more sense to me from the beginning, but its always usefull to rule out stuff (as obvious as the may be) by testing them. Wasnt false advice by any means.
> 
> Have you check any of this yet? If anything is visible or accessible of course...
> 
> ...


The BIOS is a joke, it can't get any more basic than what they have here.
I used Acer Care Center once when I first got the laptop, it has basic information like S/N, model number... basic functionality like clean trash...etc.
I did a fresh windows install and never installed anything from Acer again. I mean if advanced power options are not in the BIOS, they will certainly not be available in a user friendly pre-installed software.
Yes that's my laptop. Latest BIOS v1.06 installed.

_"Maybe one of them or both of them cannot guarantee sustainable operation for large amounts of time and for the years to come"_
Don't you find it dumb, though? I mean they made the conscious decision of putting a 15w CPU and pair it with apparently incredibly shitty VRM components that can only sustain a load of 5 watts for longer than 2 minutes thus greatly reducing the performance of the CPU to that of a much cheaper one. Why not go with a cheaper CPU in the first place? I would gladly pay 5 more euros for an adequate power delivery system, even with that, the components when bought in bulk by manufacturers, probably cost a couple cents a piece.


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## Zach_01 (Dec 8, 2019)

gwynbleidd997 said:


> Don't you find it dumb, though? *I mean they made the conscious decision of putting a 15w CPU* and pair it with apparently incredibly shitty VRM components that can only sustain a load of 5 watts for longer than 2 minutes thus greatly reducing the performance of the CPU to that of a much cheaper one. *Why not go with a cheaper CPU in the first place? I would gladly pay 5 more euros for an adequate power delivery system, even with that, the components when bought in bulk by manufacturers, probably cost a couple cents a piece.*


Cant argue with that... if manufactures/vendors stop making dumb decisions, as they often do, we actually will end up with much better products for every budget.
How it performs on something like CPU-Z bench and CB R15/20
For the record this laptop has a 45W PSU.


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 8, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> Cant argue with that... if manufactures/vendors stop making dumb decisions, as they often do, we actually will end up with much better products for every budget.
> How it performs on something like CPU-Z bench and CB R15/20
> For the record this laptop has a 45W PSU.


It's so infuriating, especially when they can't even let you tweak it however you want.
It does pretty good on CPUZ and CB R15 (didn't try R20),1800-2000 multi and ~350 single on CPUZ bench and 650-690 on CB R15 (realtime priority) all while plugged in of course. This is not an issue since as I showed, it works completely fine for a couple minutes, which is just enough to get those scores and to fool people into thinking that it will perform like that at all times.
Seems like the only course of action is to wait for a modded BIOS to make this thing reach its advertised TDP.


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## Darmok N Jalad (Dec 8, 2019)

It’s been awhile since I bought an Acer. Are they more of a value buy in the OEM heap? Another possibly sad thing is, this may be intentional on AMD models since they are considered the budget brand. We’ve seen this before where OEMs even do such dumb things as make their AMD laptops single channel only, resulting in a huge performance loss with the Vega graphics. Other dumb design decisions include only small batteries for poor battery life. It’s as though there would be no reason to upgrade to premium-priced Intel chips if such obvious design improvements were made. It would really suck if Acer intentionally limited this device so that it performed as a budget product, as it would take planned obsolescence to a new level.


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## biffzinker (Dec 8, 2019)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> We’ve seen this before where OEMs even do such dumb things as make their AMD laptops single channel only, resulting in a huge performance loss with the Vega graphics.


I was just looking at this disassemble, and upgrade video. One channel populated with a single 4 GB stick.


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 8, 2019)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> It’s been awhile since I bought an Acer. Are they more of a value buy in the OEM heap? Another possibly sad thing is, this may be intentional on AMD models since they are considered the budget brand. We’ve seen this before where OEMs even do such dumb things as make their AMD laptops single channel only, resulting in a huge performance loss with the Vega graphics. Other dumb design decisions include only small batteries for poor battery life. It’s as though there would be no reason to upgrade to premium-priced Intel chips if such obvious design improvements were made. It would really suck if Acer intentionally limited this device so that it performed as a budget product, as it would take planned obsolescence to a new level.





biffzinker said:


> I was just looking at this disassemble, and upgrade video. One channel populated with a single 4 GB stick.
> 
> View attachment 138825



This Acer model is actually the cheapest laptop I found with a 3500U, 8GB of RAM (single channel yes) and a 1080p IPS display with a 48 Wh battery and a 1TB Intel 660p NVMe SSD. It was 540 euros.
I ordered a 2x8GB HyperX Impact soDIMM kit (CL14) from amazon to replace the stock single channel crap they use. Will sell the 8GB stick to offset the cost a bit.
I thought about an HP Pavillon or an Acer Nitro 5 but they look ridiculous with those cringy gamery accents. I wanted a laptop for uni and something to take with me to do work on the go, so gaming is definitely not my focus. This one actually looks pretty professional, I love the sleek design and form factor, you can actually take this out in public and not feel like a 12 year old.


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## biffzinker (Dec 8, 2019)

gwynbleidd997 said:


> This Acer model is actually the cheapest laptop I found with a 3500U, 8GB of RAM (single channel yes) and a 1080p IPS display with a 48 Wh battery and a 1TB Intel 660p NVMe SSD. It was 540 euros.


Is this Acer Aspire you bought?


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 8, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Is this Acer Aspire you bought?


Yup, but just the german version.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 8, 2019)

Hmm. 

Look at the GPU power states. Is it stuck at a random number or stuck at a particular power state?


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 8, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Look at the GPU power states. Is it stuck at a random number or stuck at a particular power state?


Not really sure. AMD uProf only shows CPU thread P states, there's nothing on the iGPU P state.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 8, 2019)

I'll continue some searching to help, but for now, try this.



> Setting min CPU power state to 5% increases iGPU headroom in this particular laptop.


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 8, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> I'll continue some searching to help, but for now, try this.


Tried it right now, still the same problem. I left 5% min both on battery and plugged in.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 8, 2019)

Not finding a ton of information. Some have the issue, some don't solutions are few.

Next bios update. 

There is also a Ryzen Master type program for laptops. 
Think it's called Ryzen Controller? Something of that sort. 
Have a gander and see if you can DL this program.


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## biffzinker (Dec 8, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Have a gander and see if you can DL this program.











						Releases · Ryzen Controller Team / Ryzen Controller · GitLab
					

Unlock the true performance of your Ryzen Mobile Processor: https://www.ryzencontroller.com/ For Series 2xxx, 3xxx, 4xxx and 5xxx Gui for...




					gitlab.com


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 8, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Not finding a ton of information. Some have the issue, some don't solutions are few.
> 
> Next bios update.
> 
> ...





biffzinker said:


> Releases · Ryzen Controller Team / Ryzen Controller · GitLab
> 
> 
> Unlock the true performance of your Ryzen Mobile Processor: https://www.ryzencontroller.com/ For Series 2xxx, 3xxx, 4xxx and 5xxx Gui for...
> ...


It also affects the older 2500U. Not sure about Intel CPUs though I haven't look them up.
I tried Ryzen Controller but it says "Installation failed" and launches normally, but hitting apply after changing stuff does absolutely nothing. They did say that 3000 series support is still wonky. Though to be honest with you, I'd much prefer tweaking a native windows setting then inviting a third party app, but I tried it regardless and it didn't work.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 8, 2019)

Available bios for the board?


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## biffzinker (Dec 8, 2019)

gwynbleidd997 said:


> It also affects the older 2500U. Not sure about Intel CPUs though I haven't look them up.
> I tried Ryzen Controller but it says "Installation failed" and launches normally, but hitting apply after changing stuff does absolutely nothing. They did say that 3000 series support is still wonky. Though to be honest with you, I'd much prefer tweaking a native windows setting then inviting a third party app, but I tried it regardless and it didn't work.


I think it's just a front end GUI to Ryzen Master. You might need Ryzen Master as well?


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 8, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Available bios for the board?


Latest version is v1.06: https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/support-product/8008?b=1&pn=NX.HGVEG.002
It's actually the InsydeH2O rev 5.0.
There is someone on youtube who allegedly found a way to enable the hidden options in the BIOS by pressing Fn+Tab 3 times. I tried it and it didn't work, apparently they've changed the key combination I guess, since the video is 2 years old, but it is theoretically possible to enable the hidden options, I just have no idea what the key combination is.











biffzinker said:


> I think it's just a front end GUI to Ryzen Master. You might need Ryzen Master as well?


I had it installed from the get go and my CPU is not supported by it since it's the locked version. So no, even with Ryzen Master installed, Ryzen Controller doesn't seem to actually make any changes.


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## Dante Uchiha (Dec 9, 2019)

Just make a custom profile with CPU max. power state at 70~80%. This should release more TDP to iGPU. If you can't, look at this:


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## iwanna (Dec 22, 2019)

gwynbleidd997 said:


> This Acer model is actually the cheapest laptop I found with a 3500U, 8GB of RAM (single channel yes) and a 1080p IPS display with a 48 Wh battery and a 1TB Intel 660p NVMe SSD. It was 540 euros.
> I ordered a 2x8GB HyperX Impact soDIMM kit (CL14) from amazon to replace the stock single channel crap they use. Will sell the 8GB stick to offset the cost a bit.
> I thought about an HP Pavillon or an Acer Nitro 5 but they look ridiculous with those cringy gamery accents. I wanted a laptop for uni and something to take with me to do work on the go, so gaming is definitely not my focus. This one actually looks pretty professional, I love the sleek design and form factor, you can actually take this out in public and not feel like a 12 year old.


Did running RAM in dual channel solve performance issues or is it a problem with laptop's design?


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## gwynbleidd997 (Dec 22, 2019)

iwanna said:


> Did running RAM in dual channel solve performance issues or is it a problem with laptop's design?


No there weren't any "performance issues" per se, but any CPU will greatly benefit from going dual channel from single.
The issue I was talking is BIOS related, it's by design. Not sure I would call it smart design but that's how it is. My only option is to wait for a newer version of Ryzen Controller to fully support the 3000 series but until then (if that happens at all), I'm stuck with unnecessary throttling for now.


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## CosmicTraveler (Jan 30, 2020)

I had the same issue on my hp 15 with ryzen 3500u. I also had the same 45w power supply until I just recently bought 90w model from Aliexpress for 10€. I wondered if it's something with motherboard or it is psu. So before I needed to limit cpu to 1.7ghz so the gpu can do 900mhz in games, but now it goes to the maximum without any problems! So definitely it was psu. But also do keep in mind that you will need to use Ryzen Controller to unclock temp limits, rise tdp limit and vrm current so you can achive the maximum from the cpu+gpu. Good luck!


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## subert (Mar 14, 2020)

Yup.. Same problem after only one min or less CPU speeds drops at 2.0 or lower and gpu 400-500mhz max ..  And after that temp are no more than 65c .. Not sure but after changing drivers it was on 75c and much more clock for gpu  ..  ACER 3  ( 45W PSU)


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## gwynbleidd997 (Mar 15, 2020)

subert said:


> Yup.. Same problem after only one min or less CPU speeds drops at 2.0 or lower and gpu 400-500mhz max ..  And after that temp are no more than 65c .. Not sure but after changing drivers it was on 75c and much more clock for gpu  ..  ACER 3  ( 45W PSU)





CosmicTraveler said:


> I had the same issue on my hp 15 with ryzen 3500u. I also had the same 45w power supply until I just recently bought 90w model from Aliexpress for 10€. I wondered if it's something with motherboard or it is psu. So before I needed to limit cpu to 1.7ghz so the gpu can do 900mhz in games, but now it goes to the maximum without any problems! So definitely it was psu. But also do keep in mind that you will need to use Ryzen Controller to unclock temp limits, rise tdp limit and vrm current so you can achive the maximum from the cpu+gpu. Good luck!



Here's what I found out:
It seems that the APU has a turbo boost window of around 100 seconds, where the power limit starts at ~30 watts, what I measured with AIDA64 was the CPU power usage, not the whole APU. That means there's no throttling here at all, it's just that it turbos up beyond it's advertised wattage then it drops down to 15 watts. The 6 watts measured like I said is the CPU PWR and the rest goes to the iGPU (~9 watts).
If you download AMD μProf : https://developer.amd.com/amd-uprof/
You can see the real readings from there.

Like I said I didn't buy this laptop for gaming as it was never intended to be a gaming laptop to begin with. But I thought Acer was throttling the APU because of their crap cooling solution and it turns out I was wrong. Though it's sad that Acer support didn't have a clue about this basic knowledge and asked me to send the laptop in for repair.

Anyways, problem solved. Thanks to everyone who replied and tried to help.


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## subert (Mar 27, 2020)

Much better FPS with older drivers..  (19.12)  On newest even  GPUZ have bug ..


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## gwynbleidd997 (Mar 27, 2020)

subert said:


> Much better FPS with older drivers..  (19.12)  On newest even  GPUZ have bug ..


Have you tried the new Geforce Now cloud gaming service?
You just cannot game on this really, from the performance to the thermals, it's not designed for it. Give cloud gaming a shot. GN is free btw (1 hour sessions and no RTX).


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## mtcn77 (Mar 27, 2020)

subert said:


> Much better FPS with older drivers..  (19.12)  On newest even  GPUZ have bug ..


Keep it simple. Don't change the drivers, they aren't like the bios.


gwynbleidd997 said:


> You just cannot game on this really, from the performance to the thermals, it's not designed for it


You can work it better if it allows for edc adjustments in ryzen master which you said it doesn't as of yet. It is the best method for cutting down the cpu budget.


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## CrashNebula (Jun 9, 2020)

gwynbleidd997 said:


> Here's what I found out:
> It seems that the APU has a turbo boost window of around 100 seconds, where the power limit starts at ~30 watts, what I measured with AIDA64 was the CPU power usage, not the whole APU. That means there's no throttling here at all, it's just that it turbos up beyond it's advertised wattage then it drops down to 15 watts. The 6 watts measured like I said is the CPU PWR and the rest goes to the iGPU (~9 watts).
> If you download AMD μProf : https://developer.amd.com/amd-uprof/
> You can see the real readings from there.
> ...



Hi, i have the exact same problem with an acer aspire 5 too with same APU, after a while on a game, gpu clocks go down to ~400mhz leading to a significant loss off FPS.  i was thinking of getting a cooling pad and change thermal paste, bc i though it was a temperature issue but reading this, it seems like it wasn´t, and it make sense.
how did you solve it? did you limit the CPU to give more tdp to the GPU? or changed the PSU? or if you did something else please tell me, since this is driving me crazy.
i´ve been using ryzen controller to unlock the tdp but like you i dont like using third party software to increase performance.
PD: Sorry if i made mistakes writing, my english is far away from perfect.
Here are some screenshot using furmark benchmark, gpuz and cpuz

First minutes:



After some minutes:


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## gwynbleidd997 (Jun 10, 2020)

CrashNebula said:


> Hi, i have the exact same problem with an acer aspire 5 too with same APU, after a while on a game, gpu clocks go down to ~400mhz leading to a significant loss off FPS.  i was thinking of getting a cooling pad and change thermal paste, bc i though it was a temperature issue but reading this, it seems like it wasn´t, and it make sense.
> how did you solve it? did you limit the CPU to give more tdp to the GPU? or changed the PSU? or if you did something else please tell me, since this is driving me crazy.
> i´ve been using ryzen controller to unlock the tdp but like you i dont like using third party software to increase performance.
> PD: Sorry if i made mistakes writing, my english is far away from perfect.
> ...


Like I said in my previous comment, that's completely normal. I didn't solve it per se since there wasn't really a problem to begin with. That's the performance of the APU after the initial turbo boost window. If you're after more performance the only solution which you already hinted at, is using RyzenController. I can confirm it worked when I used it a couple months ago but the APU will get quite hot and I'm not sure if that's healthy for the VRM components on the motherboard in the long run. I would advice against gaming on the 3500U altogether let alone "overclocking" it.
I would suggest saving up for a gaming desktop pc if you're into really into it, if not, you should probably give something like Google Stadia or Geforce Now a shot and see if you like cloud gaming.


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## LabRat 891 (Jun 10, 2020)

I don't know about your exact laptop but I 'rebuilt' and modded an Acer Aspire A315-41-R98U recently for a friend of mine. It has a 2500u. It *was* doing the same. 
1st. Acer's AMD Ryzen APU laptops of this gen, including the Nitro 5 throttle/stop boosting @ 80c by default
2nd. As OP discovered, there's a limited boost period (and current/power over time limits) to control thermals and limit battery consumption
3rd. The stock cooler on the A315-41 was woefully insufficient for continuous load of any sort.

1 is resolved using a cTDP utility like Ryzen Controller and raising the throttle temp to AMD's spec or near it; ~90c. 
2 is resolved with the same utility, but will need to play with the power and time limits for boost. 
3 was resolved by installing the Nitro 5's (AN515-42) MUCH beefier cooler using Liquid Metal TIM after masking and sealing the CPU package w/ clear nailpolish. (I also applied Kapton tape to the mobo under the GPU cooling section of the cooler to prevent flexing from causing a short) The PWM control for fan 2 can be bridged off the PWM control from fan 1, power and ground can be gotten from a nearby USB port. I also added a small switch into the Kensignton lock port that disconnects the PWM line to both fans which will run them @ 100%. The beefier cooler does not need this feature, and I don't recc doing this, but it's neat having a 'yeet mode' switch.

Warning: You can config these CPUs to get a LOT more performance and for indefinite boost periods using that cTDP utility. However, even kept cool, the Aspire's motherboard's power circuitry is not capable of powering the up-TDP'd APU 'properly'. Specifically, while stable, and even with the Nitro's cooler cooling the CPU power phase(s) better, the battery will drain while under load, plugged in when config'd beyond a 25W TDP and for continuous boosting. This occurs on a 65W, 95W, and 135W adapter. This will, at the minimum, wear out your battery much faster, and potentially wear out motherboard power components faster (though the case is much better ventilated w/ that second fan)
Additionally, on my friend's A315-41-R98U, the Ryzen Controller settings would reset on their own periodically. So, you'll have to set the utility to run the in the background and auto-reapply settings periodically.


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## gwynbleidd997 (Jun 10, 2020)

LabRat 891 said:


> I don't know about your exact laptop but I 'rebuilt' and modded an Acer Aspire A315-41-R98U recently for a friend of mine. It has a 2500u. It *was* doing the same.
> 1st. Acer's AMD Ryzen APU laptops of this gen, including the Nitro 5 throttle/stop boosting @ 80c by default
> 2nd. As OP discovered, there's a limited boost period (and current/power over time limits) to control thermals and limit battery consumption
> 3rd. The stock cooler on the A315-41 was woefully insufficient for continuous load of any sort.
> ...


Seems like a lot of work to me. I thought about conductonaut liquid metal since I already have it laying around after delidding my desktop CPU but the stock cooler of the A515-43 is mainly aluminium so that's a big no no. Besides, you run the risk of it seeping out and shorting something on the motherboard that you didn't coat since the laptop is well, portable and supposed to be moved around alot.
All in all, I think for your and your friend's sanity, he should get a real gaming laptop with a dedicated GPU and adequate cooling. Then it might be worth it to try liquid metal on that since it makes sense for high end components. The performance of the 2500U and the 3500U even in the boost window is nothing to write home about.


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## subert (Jun 10, 2020)

The only thing I done is limiting CPU speed by changing windows power plan options.


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## LabRat 891 (Jun 24, 2020)

gwynbleidd997 said:


> Seems like a lot of work to me. I thought about conductonaut liquid metal since I already have it laying around after delidding my desktop CPU but the stock cooler of the A515-43 is mainly aluminium so that's a big no no. Besides, you run the risk of it seeping out and shorting something on the motherboard that you didn't coat since the laptop is well, portable and supposed to be moved around alot.
> All in all, I think for your and your friend's sanity, he should get a real gaming laptop with a dedicated GPU and adequate cooling. Then it might be worth it to try liquid metal on that since it makes sense for high end components. The performance of the 2500U and the 3500U even in the boost window is nothing to write home about.



It was quite a bit of work; fun though. Bought the base laptop(Single ch. RAM, 768p LCD, wimpy cooler that throttled under light load) for less than half market rate because it had some minor cosmetic damage (nail polish remover I think) and the prev. owner thought the touchpad was bad. Specifically went through the effort so a friend of mine could have a truly 'custom' laptop; something we've both long desired.
Additionally, even after all the mods, we couldn't have purchased a laptop for the same money that would deliver the same level or better of SUSTAINED performance. The whole project was <$500, including shipping to him after I built it. Inclu. cooler, an unnecessary touchpad from a Nitro 5 (ooo, red trim, pretty), a wifi antenna I broke and replaced, Secondary SATA SSD, SATA cable, 1080p LCD, dual-ch 16GB RAM, and decorative vinyls.

I did mask the CPU with tape, and then clear nail polish around it. I removed the tape off the die and then applied the liquid metal, spreading it gently with a cotton q-tip using a tapping motion to wet the LM onto both the CPU die and the Cooler. (I used generic Galinstan from eBay, ordered for purpose since I lost my previous vial I got from Latvia) Once 'wetted' to a surface, and as long as there is not an extreme excess, it will not migrate. I think it's Van Der Walls force that keeps it in place, kinda like machinists gauge blocks. (BTW, I have spilled LM on a RAMstick and killed it, you do need to be careful, but it is not THAT bad. As long as it doesn't touch aluminum or get under a BGA component, you can usually clean the board off w/ strong isopropyl and it works A-OK)

The Nitro 5's cooler (AN515-42 OEM Cooling Fan Heatsink AT28X001FA0 DFS541105) is copper baseplated. It's LM TIM safe.
If you don't want to go through the effort of wiring up the second fan, just the 1 fan with the additional heatsink area and heatpipes would be a big improvement and an easy job. (nothing other than back cover(s) and heatsink assmbly need be removed and reinstalled)
Even not messing w/ TDP limits, boost current/periods, etc. you can get better sustained performance simply by keeping it under the stock 75c throttle.
You may remove the 'dud' fan to reduce weight if you don't wish to do soldering and running of fine wires.
I was concerned of deckflex potentially shorting the heatpipes and GPU cooler baseplate to the bare solder joints, so I taped over the unused solderjoints with kapton tape. (Specifically used in electronics and transformer construction since it's insulative and non-flammable. This isn't probably necessary.)

As far as performance goes... (If you want to ask I dunno if he's on TPU, but he goes by pioneerisloud @ OCN)
I wish I had numbers saved, but going from stock single ch. RAM to dual ch. w/ TDP limits raised to 25W, we got near-to-over 100% performance increase across the board. Also managed to force the thing to pull over 100W according to AIDA64 under sustained load w/ the TDP limits @ 35+W and boost current + period maxed out. Nice and cool tho regardless; <85c w/o the fans ramping up beyond 'audible'. Goes to show how much the upgraded cooler helps.
At the more reasonable 25W cTDP boost It plays Crysis (lel, had to), and can play many modern titles with some pretties turned down and/or @ 1280x720/1366x768 (also upgraded screen to 1080p). The limited amount of RAM given to the GPU (1GB) is what's gimping it.
I've played Killing Floor 2 and Sonic All Stars Transformed Racing with him while he's been using it, and been impressed. I do not know what settings were set on KF2, since I know it can eat VRAM. Older games like source titles are very smooth. However, CS:GO does get a lil bogged down when a lot of smoke is on screen; but neither of us play CS:GO.
All in all, In some applications it was performing similarly (though generally slightly behind) to his i5 3570 + RX550 spare desktop, where not VRAM limited.
We were both VERY impressed with the outcome, and even the speediest laptops aren't built for the sustained boost (3.2+ allcore sustained) and (relative) cooling this thing has now. Even if they might be much more powerful (and expensive).
He's very pleased with it, and I'm slightly jelly. Was hoping to do something similar to a 4th Gen APU laptop once they come down in price, hopefully holidays 2020.

While I do think the project was financially justifiable, the biggest 'value add(ed)/(ing) feature' is the fact it 'was' a plain jane generic run of the mill low-mid consumer tier laptop, that's been totally rebuilt and modified to do something that few if any contemporaries could do. The Portal Vinyls totally add +5FPS too, right?


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## gloopy2 (Dec 29, 2021)

GUYS I FIXED IT. First, play games with the charger plugged in. Now go to power settings, use balanced in windows power settings. Now in the battery icon, set to max performance. Next, THIS IS IMPORTANT. Go to your Radeon Software settings >> Gaming >> Global Graphics. Turn on RADEON CHILL and set the minimum value to 60 and the maximum value to your monitors refresh rate. In my case I put max to 60 as well. Now the vega 8 won't boost your CPU clocks as high and the throttle will go away. ENJOY.


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