# PowerColor launches HD 4670 AGP, Passive HD 4770 and more ATI cards



## W1zzard (Jun 3, 2009)

Apparently there is still a huge number of AGP users that want to upgrade their graphics, yet are not willing to invest in a new system with PCI-Express support. PowerColor has listened to those requests and has now announced the PowerColor HD 4670 AGP PCS which is going to be the fastest card available for this dying interface.



 


The cornerstone specs are 1 GB GDDR3, 128 bit memory interface, 750 MHz core, 800 MHz memory.




 


Another interesting card is the PowerColor HD 4770 SCS3. It works without any active cooling which means it should be an excellent choice for any media PC system.



 


A second HD 4770 on display is geared more toward users who are looking to overclock their card, the HD 4770 PCS comes with an improved cooler, yet the default clock frequencies are still 750/800.



 

 


For the lovers of performance cards, the HD 4890 PCS++ is one of the few 1 GHz+ models available, coming at 1010 MHz core and 1100 MHz memory. It is difficult to find such good ASICs so expect limited availability of this card.




To celebrate the launch of the Battle Forge DirectX 10.1 game, Powercolor has chosen to bundle their HD 4890 with this game at only a small price increase.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## W1zzard (Jun 3, 2009)

digg please http://digg.com/hardware/PowerColor_has_HD_4670_AGP_fastest_AGP_card_in_the_world


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## Duncan1 (Jun 3, 2009)

Great work man.Digged...

At last non-ref HD4770s !!


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## Kitkat (Jun 3, 2009)

cdawall said:


> umm 4650!=4670
> 
> that 4650 carries GDDR2 and a much lower core speed the 4670 carries GDDR3 and a higher core clock


*oh my bad i miss read it thats prety cool* I dont think itll be faster anyway who has a AGP board that wont bottleneck past 3850??

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125281&Tpk=4650 agp

been avbailible for about 3 weeks now? for some reason its not in the AGP section u have to search it directly

this has been for about a week and a half but i know theres 2 vers.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131156

ooo and hadent seen this one till today!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102841

Its been about 6 weeks so the ASUS cant be far behind.


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## cdawall (Jun 3, 2009)

Kitkat said:


> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125281&Tpk=4650 agp
> 
> been avbailible for about 3 weeks now? for some reason its not in the AGP section u have to search it directly
> 
> ...



umm 4650!=4670

that 4650 carries GDDR2 and a much lower core speed the 4670 carries GDDR3 and a higher core clock


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## Hunt3r (Jun 3, 2009)

good
;D


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## mamisano (Jun 3, 2009)

That passive 4770 would be a nice addition to an HTPC... Nice to see some non-standard 4770 designs being announced.


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## BOSE (Jun 3, 2009)

People still use AGP?


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 3, 2009)

Is this really faster than the 3850, I guess I could see it being marginally, the biggest thing will be price as the 3850AGP is an eye gouger.


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## BOSE (Jun 3, 2009)

I keep getting 2 emails even though there was only one reply.

Admin, please look in to your email server.

Thanks.


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## enaher (Jun 3, 2009)

MMM... Where are the solid caps on the AGP 4670:shadedshu, well id get that if priced under a hundred ive got a Asrock 4COREDual Sata2, Pentium e5200, 2 Gigs of Value Ram that need a GPU that way id have 3 pc for L4D deathmatches


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## InnocentCriminal (Jun 3, 2009)

BOSE said:


> People still use AGP?



Yep, a lot of people. Probably explains why they want some of that market - if not many offer AGP card but people need them, then they'll basically sell everything they make for a goo profit. I'm sceptical on performance of the 4670 like you Kurgan, I wonder if it'll be any faster than a stock 3850. My 3850 when OC'd beats a PCIe 3870.


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## DailymotionGamer (Jun 3, 2009)

Alright this is wonderful news for AGP users, but hey powercolor what about some new pci cards please.
Oh well, AGP users, enjoy and have fun!


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## cdawall (Jun 3, 2009)

u2konline said:


> Alright this is wonderful news for AGP users, but hey powercolor what about some new pci cards please.
> Oh well, AGP users, enjoy and have fun!



good god no more pci cards pci bottlenecks any card over a NV6200


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## erocker (Jun 3, 2009)

u2konline said:


> Alright this is wonderful news for AGP users, but hey powercolor what about some new pci cards please.
> Oh well, AGP users, enjoy and have fun!



Basically they aren't making any "higher end" PCI cards because it would just be limited by the PCI slot.


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## Yukikaze (Jun 3, 2009)

u2konline said:


> Alright this is wonderful news for AGP users, but hey powercolor what about some new pci cards please.
> Oh well, AGP users, enjoy and have fun!



Why do we need more PCI cards ? The 8-freaking-400-freaking-GS is bottlenecked on PCI and the HD4350 is bottlenecked on a PCI-E x1 slot. Making new cards on PCI is not going to make sense, what exists out there is more than enough.

If they made some real low power PCI video cards with something like half a G98 in power on them, that'd make sense for low power, cheap mITX rigs, or old computer upgrades. Anything more powerful that the current PCI lineup is a complete and utter waste.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 3, 2009)

enaher said:


> MMM... Where are the solid caps on the AGP 4670



There is no need for solid caps on a mid-range card like this.  It would just needlessly drive up the cost.  Solid caps just became mainstream a year ago, and now ever card/motherboard needs them?  My my, how did we ever survive without them for all those years?!?!



InnocentCriminal said:


> Yep, a lot of people. Probably explains why they want some of that market - if not many offer AGP card but people need them, then they'll basically sell everything they make for a goo profit. I'm sceptical on performance of the 4670 like you Kurgan, I wonder if it'll be any faster than a stock 3850. My 3850 when OC'd beats a PCIe 3870.



The 4670 should give a pretty nice performance bump over the 3850, especially when AA is concerned as the RV670 had some issues with AA.


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## thraxed (Jun 3, 2009)

I'm beginning to think we've all been had over the capabilities of PCI-X over AGP.


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## mudkip (Jun 3, 2009)

There are enough people with an AGP slot who like to have a card like this.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 4, 2009)

thraxed said:


> I'm beginning to think we've all been had over the capabilities of PCI-X over AGP.



PCI-X isn't better than AGP, its worse actually.  Now PCI-E, thats a different story...

And while mid-range cards like the HD4670 wouldn't probably suffer much from the lower bandwidth of the AGP slot, higher end cards definitely would.


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## enaher (Jun 4, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> There is no need for solid caps on a mid-range card like this.  It would just needlessly drive up the cost.  Solid caps just became mainstream a year ago, and now ever card/motherboard needs them?  My my, how did we ever survive without them for all those years?!?!



No need?, drive prices up? for a few solid caps that can prolong the life of the card, before solid caps were rare and expensive but for a 7c dif its not worth it? thats the dif of caps in lots a 1000 and thats the price in Honduras(third world country btw), electrolitic capacitor age you now and i like my belonging to last the longest they can to keep or sell them in perfect condition, i dont mind paying a few dollars extra for quality sure that extra 3$ must hurt right now with the economy and all...


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## WarEagleAU (Jun 4, 2009)

Awesome, nice to see AGP still going.


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## yourma2000 (Jun 4, 2009)

a 4670 AGP is as pointless as the 4650 agp, neither of them will out do the 3850, i'm still rooting for a possible 4770 AGP after Amazons cock up


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## lemonadesoda (Jun 4, 2009)

Agree. We want 4770 not 4670.

HOWEVER, I think a 4670 PCB and memory layout would be compatible with the 4770. When there are more 4770s available (they cant make em fast enough today) then PowerColor can just release the 4770AGP.

So this IS GOOD NEWS... it is laying the path for a 4770AGP. The design work and PCB has been done. 

For speeds? Not sure, 4670 and 3850 are probably neck and neck... but the 4670 will use less power, be cooler, and quieter.  Might even OC better with a 3rd party cooler.

But I agree, 4770 is the way to go.



W1zzard said:


> digg please http://digg.com/hardware/PowerColor_has_HD_4670_AGP_fastest_AGP_card_in_the_world


Digg? For just plain marketing and PR info? *No way*.

I will only digg once you post VALUE-ADDED information, like a review, or a benchmark or two.  Even if just basic. But something to provide a performance comparison.

Just take a USB stick and ask the guys at the desk to run a couple of basic tests, like GPU-Z, Lightsmark 2008, Furmark. They are low memory/install requirements and complete their runs in just 60 secs. I'm sure they will oblige.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 4, 2009)

enaher said:


> No need?, drive prices up? for a few solid caps that can prolong the life of the card, before solid caps were rare and expensive but for a 7c dif its not worth it? thats the dif of caps in lots a 1000 and thats the price in Honduras(third world country btw), electrolitic capacitor age you now and i like my belonging to last the longest they can to keep or sell them in perfect condition, i dont mind paying a few dollars extra for quality sure that extra 3$ must hurt right now with the economy and all...



Prolong the life of the card from what?  Regular caps last long enough already, why do you think there are cards that are 10 years old still in use today?  Besides that, the RV730 doesn't pull enough power to even come close to the limits of regular caps.  Solid caps are useful on high end cards that are sucking down 200w, but on a sub-75w card like the HD4670, they provide nothing.

And the AGP bridge is already going to drive the price of this card up way beyond what it is worth, and even a small cost increase to the manufacturer can equal $5-10 to the consumer.  Thats $5-10 extra for nothing.  If you still have AGP 10+ years from now when the difference between solid caps and regular caps become appearent, I pitty you...


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## W1zzard (Jun 4, 2009)

lemonadesoda said:


> Just take a USB stick and ask the guys at the desk to run a couple of basic tests, like GPU-Z, Lightsmark 2008, Furmark. They are low memory/install requirements and complete their runs in just 60 secs. I'm sure they will oblige.



umm no way .. have you ever been to a show as press? its hard to even get a few minutes with the cards alone to take pictures


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## enaher (Jun 4, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> Prolong the life of the card from what?  Regular caps last long enough already, why do you think there are cards that are 10 years old still in use today?  Besides that, the RV730 doesn't pull enough power to even come close to the limits of regular caps.  Solid caps are useful on high end cards that are sucking down 200w, but on a sub-75w card like the HD4670, they provide nothing.
> 
> And the AGP bridge is already going to drive the price of this card up way beyond what it is worth, and even a small cost increase to the manufacturer can equal $5-10 to the consumer.  Thats $5-10 extra for nothing.  If you still have AGP 10+ years from now when the difference between solid caps and regular caps become appearent, I pitty you...



youre so worried about being right i pity you, if i want solid caps, thats me if you dont good for you, give yourself a clap, but just to teach you a bit capictor aging makes hardware less efficient, voltage has a minor effect compared to temps, now if you live here with temps near 40 celsuis your pc ill need those caps, if you want it to work as efficiently you need those caps, and as i said if i need something price doesnt bother me as long as i get what i want, in these case solid caps, and hell yeah ill have agp for a long time


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## lemonadesoda (Jun 4, 2009)

W1zzard said:


> umm no way .. have you ever been to a show as press? its hard to even get a few minutes with the cards alone to take pictures


Then need to change name from W1zzard to Apprentice W1zzard.  You need to ask/demand for information, spec sheets and more info. After all, you are a VIP there. Make sure the vendors deliver info that you want... that is the purpose of the PR event... that's their job, as product/company reps, to tout the products to people just like you.

Anyway, I'm sure you are getting bored of taking techie pictures... BUT WE ARE WAITING for the Taipei girls thread. Where is it?


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## newtekie1 (Jun 4, 2009)

enaher said:


> youre so worried about being right i pity you, if i want solid caps, thats me if you dont good for you, give yourself a clap, but just to teach you a bit capictor aging makes hardware less efficient, voltage has a minor effect compared to temps, now if you live here with temps near 40 celsuis your pc ill need those caps, if you want it to work as efficiently you need those caps, and as i said if i need something price doesnt bother me as long as i get what i want, in these case solid caps, and hell yeah ill have agp for a long time



It doesn't matter where you live, you don't need solid caps on a card like the HD4670.  Temps and Cap aging will not affect normal caps in the usable lifetime of the card, it just won't happen, regardless of operating conditions(excluding extreme situations obviously, and 40°C is hardly an extreme situation).  Adding solid caps to mid-range cards will do nothing.

I can't stress this enough, you do not need solid caps, if you did how did any hardware mange to survive this long before solid caps became mainstream?


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## enaher (Jun 4, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> It doesn't matter where you live, you don't need solid caps on a card like the HD4670.  Temps and Cap aging will not affect normal caps in the usable lifetime of the card, it just won't happen, regardless of operating conditions(excluding extreme situations obviously, and 40°C is hardly an extreme situation).  Adding solid caps to mid-range cards will do nothing.
> 
> I can't stress this enough, you do not need solid caps, if you did how did any hardware mange to survive this long before solid caps became mainstream?




You know im just tired, you just want to be right, you think you know to much, try and use a that card here at 1200 Hours here, and youd understand thats right you can't and 40°C not extreme?, its funny coming from Someone from Indiana whats your highest temp 30°C?, Americans from Austin, New Mexico actually get dihydrated and there from the hotter parts of the states, you dont understand how 40°C and Tropical Humidity act on the human Body average body temp is 37.5 @ 41.5°C its already hiperpyrexia,  as i remarked if you dont need them good for you, i do.

You should try to humble yourself you think to high and mighty of yourself.


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## 012013014 (Jun 4, 2009)

err.........wont these card will be bottleneck if the agp board thats still using P4(pentium 4) system???


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## hat (Jun 4, 2009)

AGP... when will it die?!


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## InnocentCriminal (Jun 4, 2009)

The cards wouldn't be a bottleneck, the CPU would be - depending on the rest of the system specification.



			
				hat said:
			
		

> AGP... when will it die?!



When it's _completely_ obsolete - just goes to show you [all] that AGP isn't completely shit compared to PCIe. Like Mickey Rourke in the Wrestler - he may be ugly but he's still fightin'!


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## hat (Jun 4, 2009)

It is when considering the availability of it. There are no AGP 4890s or GTX260s


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## InnocentCriminal (Jun 4, 2009)

Well of course not, but for those that don't see any need to go to massively high-end cards, but would like a fair bit of a performance increase over PCI without having to replace every other component in their system just to accommodate a high-end GFX card.


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## lemonadesoda (Jun 4, 2009)

There IS a market for this, for people that want to have a faster GPU, lower power, quieter, and WITHOUT having to buy a new computer or build a new rig from scratch INCL purchasing a new copy of Windows, since most peeps copies are OEM and cannot be transferred to a totally new rig.

I bet there are a lot of "hand-me-down" computers from parents to kids. A $50 up to date GPU would make that gift so much more useful.

AND there are the occasional owners of Core 2/Quad AGP rigs. Clearly, this GPU would be a perfect match.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 4, 2009)

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a market for this, I'm just not sure of how big that market is...

IMO, AGP users that want good graphics cards are few and far between.  Most current AGP users probably don't care about boosting their graphic performance, if they did they would have probably moved on from AGP a while ago.

But what really concerns me is drivers, last I heard the drivers for the AGP 3850's were complete shit, will this HD4670 be a repeat of that?

Though if I was an AGP user, I think I would stop spending money on tiny upgrades, and just putting that money towards new modern hardware.


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## lemonadesoda (Jun 4, 2009)

I do agree with you; the market is probably pretty thin. Most people on AGP probably have rubbish CPUs and a 3850/4670 would be lost on them. Most enthusiasts have moved on or are in the process of doing so.

However that perspective is driven by "US/European economics". If we talk about Eastern Europe, Russia, China, South America, the situation may be different. I'm not aware of what demand might exist there. Perhaps more? But only if the price is right.

I think some 1st World AGP systems might have survived longer if the 3850/3870 had been out sooner and cheaper. Likewise with the 4830. That would have been a perfect AGP release on launch. 

Clearly 4670/4770/4830 is the end of the road for AGP. Let's hope it goes out with a bang! I hope they do release a 4770 in the very near future. I would buy a couple for the "office" machines.



newtekie1 said:


> Though if I was an AGP user, I think I would stop spending money on tiny upgrades, and just putting that money towards new modern hardware.


Can't argue with that. I think it therefore falls into the product category for "second machines", upgrades for office machines driving multiple monitors, or 2nd world nations.


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## enaher (Jun 5, 2009)

There's a big market not huge but if your the only one providing a product its still good, a friend working in taiwan actually told me that the x1950pro and HD3850 AGP are very popular in taiwan and china most people play MMO's don't really care about hardware, WOW is the main interest there and a p4 should work, and in latin america we usually don't get the latest hardware, most of my freinds still run Athlons 64 and P4 based machines with agp and most own 6600gt, 7800gs and x1950pro and spending 100$ for a quick upgrade doesn't seem so bad, then there are people like me to lazy to swap the familiy pc and rather get the new agp card


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## Hayder_Master (Jun 5, 2009)

AGP still a live


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## newtekie1 (Jun 5, 2009)

enaher said:


> You know im just tired, you just want to be right, you think you know to much, try and use a that card here at 1200 Hours here, and youd understand thats right you can't and 40°C not extreme?, its funny coming from Someone from Indiana whats your highest temp 30°C?, Americans from Austin, New Mexico actually get dihydrated and there from the hotter parts of the states, you dont understand how 40°C and Tropical Humidity act on the human Body average body temp is 37.5 @ 41.5°C its already hiperpyrexia,  as i remarked if you dont need them good for you, i do.
> 
> You should try to humble yourself you think to high and mighty of yourself.



You really are ignorant aren't you.  You honestly believe it never breaks 100°F in Indiana?  Wow...

And what does dehydration and the human body have to do with anything, people die of dehydration and heat stroke every year in Chicago.  

Now, as for how 40°C and Tropical Climates affect computer parts, I'm far more aware than you are obviously.  And just because I live in Indiana now doesn't mean I've always lived in Indiana...

Again I ask you, if tropical climate with high temperates requires solid caps, how did we ever get along before they were available?  Why don't we hear of people in tropical climates having blown caps on their older hardware all the time?  I'll tell you why.  Its because normal caps, when used in proper applications and not overloaded, are perfectly fine and using solid caps in their place for no other reason than to have solid caps "because they are better" is pointless.

In fact, I would bet that the AGP motherboard you're thinking about putting this card in probably doesn't even have solid caps.


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## intel igent (Jun 5, 2009)

all hail newtekkie!  

i still don't think that the full bus width of AGP is being saturated, manufacturer's and software (micro$haft) companies just wanted to make something new to get into the mainstream's pocket's 

that being said i'm itchin' to build a new rig


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## enaher (Jun 5, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> You really are ignorant aren't you.  You honestly believe it never breaks 100°F in Indiana?  Wow...
> 
> And what does dehydration and the human body have to do with anything, people die of dehydration and heat stroke every year in Chicago.
> Now, as for how 40°C and Tropical Climates affect computer parts, I'm far more aware than you are obviously.  And just because I live in Indiana now doesn't mean I've always lived in Indiana...
> ...




Yes, you do but not on regular basis do you? you have 4 stations, we have 2 summer and rain season thats 6 month of heat our summer  average is 40°C so that means it gets hotter and remember that little thing called global warming might be a rumor to you but its very real here, the closer to the ecuator the worst it gets Honduras went from Average 34°C in 2000 to 40°C in 2008 and its gonna get worst.

Yes you don't understand tropical humidity effects, but id have to give you  physics and physiology lessons for you to get it.

Another thing you actually think im gonna use my pc for standard application, most people don't overclock or overvolt, so most people don't need them as i've said like four times, i do, nope my asrock not full solid caps if i could get one with them i would


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## newtekie1 (Jun 5, 2009)

enaher said:


> Yes, you do but not on regular basis do you? you have 4 stations, we have 2 summer and rain season thats 6 month of heat our summer  average is 40°C so that means it gets hotter and remember that little thing called global warming might be a rumor to you but its very real here, the closer to the ecuator the worst it gets Honduras went from Average 34°C in 2000 to 40°C in 2008 and its gonna get worst.
> 
> Yes you don't understand tropical humidity effects, but id have to give you  physics and physiology lessons for you to get it.
> 
> Another thing you actually think im gonna use my pc for standard application, most people don't overclock or overvolt, so most people don't need them as i've said like four times, i do, nope my asrock not full solid caps if i could get one with them i would



Not regular, but you never said regular basis.  You just said Indiana never sees 40°C, which isn't accurate at all.

I understand tropical humidity perfectly, again I haven't spend my whole life in Indiana. 

And why would I assume anyone on this site uses their computer for standard applications.  You don't need solid caps to overclock, you don't need them in tropical climates, and you don't need them in any combination of the two.

I find it funny how you can't seem to address my simple questions.  How has all the hardware that has come out before solid caps were mainstream ever manage to survive this long if solid caps are needed?  

How has your motherboard not fried?  And why are you worried about this card having solid caps, if your motherboard doesn't have them?  The things you worry about happening to the caps on this card are going to happen to the, I assume, older motherboard caps first.  So your motherboard won't even last as long as the cards.  By your logic, your motherboard is going to die in the next year or so, so the AGP card will outlive it.  And when the board dies, that would probably be a good time to move to PCI-E.

And what ASRock board do you have, because AFAIK, there aren't any AGP ASRock boards with any solid caps...



intel igent said:


> i still don't think that the full bus width of AGP is being saturated, manufacturer's and software (micro$haft) companies just wanted to make something new to get into the mainstream's pocket's



If that was true, the higher end cards wouldn't show a performance hit when put in a PCI-E x8 slot.  Of course higher end cards do show a performance hit in PCI-E x8 slots, so...


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## pantherx12 (Jun 5, 2009)

Enaher, I've been to India twice, at the local internet cafe they had computers that were 10+ years old 5 years ago.

They work fine.

Newtekie is right, unless you have some really over the top super card that's at 100% load 100% of the time, the caps will last for more then enough time.


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## cdawall (Jun 5, 2009)

enaher said:


> You know im just tired, you just want to be right, you think you know to much, try and use a that card here at 1200 Hours here, and youd understand thats right you can't and 40°C not extreme?, its funny coming from Someone from Indiana whats your highest temp 30°C?, Americans from Austin, New Mexico actually get dihydrated and there from the hotter parts of the states, you dont understand how 40°C and Tropical Humidity act on the human Body average body temp is 37.5 @ 41.5°C its already hiperpyrexia,  as i remarked if you dont need them good for you, i do.
> 
> You should try to humble yourself you think to high and mighty of yourself.



i live just outside of houston you don't need all solid caps hell i ran a K7S5A-pro with explodie caps just fine at stock for 4 years the IDE on the board died not the caps that were well well known to blow.

hell we pulled apart some of the computer based mills at NASA and the had all liquid based caps not a single was blown....those machines are older than i am


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## enaher (Jun 5, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> Not regular, but you never said regular basis.  You just said Indiana never sees 40°C, which isn't accurate at all.
> 
> I understand tropical humidity perfectly, again I haven't spend my whole life in Indiana.  Don't be so full of yourself, and don't assume everyone else lives some sheltered life.
> 
> ...



Again you started this crap, i want solid caps that should be enough, you don't know what i do with my pc or the condition it's in and many other details, yet you think you can tell me what i need? and your accusing me of being full of myself?, as i said you or everyone else might not need them thats ok i don;t care, but i do want my solid caps, i like to reduce risk as much as i can, and thats what solid caps are, a failure reduction component, so they raise price i don't care, but they're mainstream for a reason now.

And the answer to your *BIG* question: yes hardware survives without solid caps, but it's fail rate is higher, now lets imagine you have to take any comunication device to a jungle/mountain/cave, mmm... you've got two choices one without solid caps with a fail rate of 2%, and one with solid caps and a fail rate of 1% i'd take the solid caps 1% is a small risk, that i wouldn't take even if you screamed in my ear how unnecesary that is...

Want another example: in a OC contest what Mobo would you take if there the same Brand/Model the only difference would be solid caps? with or without?

You know Solid Caps were developed to reduce the hardware failure rate

Nope, my 4CoreDual Sata2 has No SC. your right

BTW, im not gonna answer this crap any more, I really think your to hard headed.


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## DaveK (Jun 5, 2009)

BOSE said:


> People still use AGP?



Yes, but I don't want to, can't afford a PCIe card


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## cdawall (Jun 5, 2009)

enaher said:


> Again you started this crap, i want solid caps that should be enough, you don't know what i do with my pc or the condition it's in and many other details, yet you think you can tell me what i need? and your accusing me of being full of myself?, as i said you or everyone else might not need them thats ok i don;t care, but i do want my solid caps, i like to reduce risk as much as i can, and thats what solid caps are, a failure reduction component, so they raise price i don't care, but they're mainstream for a reason now.
> 
> And the answer to your *BIG* question: yes hardware survives without solid caps, but it's fail rate is higher, now lets imagine you have to take any comunication device to a jungle/mountain/cave, mmm... you've got two choices one without solid caps with a fail rate of 2%, and one with solid caps and a fail rate of 1% i'd take the solid caps 1% is a small risk, that i wouldn't take even if you screamed in my ear how unnecesary that is...
> 
> ...



actually at the same rating the caps should last the same under the conditions they are rated for. high quality liquid caps have proven to be as good as high quality solid caps. now if you guy snag some crappy liquid caps that don't really meet the specs written on them more power to you as they will pop. however a good cap is a good cap solid or liquid.


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## enaher (Jun 5, 2009)

cdawall said:


> actually at the same rating the caps should last the same under the conditions they are rated for. high quality liquid caps have proven to be as good as high quality solid caps. now if you guy snag some crappy liquid caps that don't really meet the specs written on them more power to you as they will pop. however a good cap is a good cap solid or liquid.



Yep thats true but, you know they always skimp on the quality polystyrene capacitors, or even go as far as covering the cheap caps with aluminium barrels so they look like solid caps, but i think its mainly for the price and size of polystyrene and polycarbonate capacitors.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 5, 2009)

enaher said:


> Again you started this crap, i want solid caps that should be enough, you don't know what i do with my pc or the condition it's in and many other details, yet you think you can tell me what i need? and your accusing me of being full of myself?, as i said you or everyone else might not need them thats ok i don;t care, but i do want my solid caps, i like to reduce risk as much as i can, and thats what solid caps are, a failure reduction component, so they raise price i don't care, but they're mainstream for a reason now.
> 
> And the answer to your *BIG* question: yes hardware survives without solid caps, but it's fail rate is higher, now lets imagine you have to take any comunication device to a jungle/mountain/cave, mmm... you've got two choices one without solid caps with a fail rate of 2%, and one with solid caps and a fail rate of 1% i'd take the solid caps 1% is a small risk, that i wouldn't take even if you screamed in my ear how unnecesary that is...
> 
> ...



Your examples do not apply here, there is nothing you can do with this card that would require solid caps.  You aren't going to be entering it in any overclocking contests, you aren't going to be taking it to the jungle/mountain/cave.  So none of that applies.  You can't give me a single valid reason why solid caps on this card would be necessary, or even benefitial.  

And you seem to have gone completely off track and are trying to turn this discussion into a simply Solid Cap vs. Normal Cap debate.  I'm not saying there aren't applications that benefit from Solid Caps, and even applications where I would make sure Solid Caps were used.  However, I'm saying in this single application on an AGP HD4670, there will be no benefit to solid caps.

And you are only partially correct in saying that solid caps were developed to reduce failure rates.  They were developed to reduce failure rates under high load situations, as they can take more abuse than liquad caps.  However, that doesn't help one bit with this card, I highly doubt anyone will be overvolting the card, so the normal caps will be just fine, and even if you do overvolt the card unless you are pumping some serious juice through it, the normal caps will be just fine.  And if you push the voltage far enough that the normal caps become the limitting factor, you better have some damn good cooling because you will probably fry the core first.  And really, if you can afford the cooler to do it, you should have something better than an AGP machine at this point.

And remember, you started this, I responded to your comment.



enaher said:


> Yep thats true but, you know they always skimp on the quality polystyrene capacitors, or even go as far as covering the cheap caps with aluminium barrels so they look like solid caps, but i think its mainly for the price and size of polystyrene and polycarbonate capacitors.



That again doesn't apply here.  If they use high quality caps, it won't be an issue.  A budget card maker might use cheap caps, but I doubt someone like PowerColor will.  And again, you are going off track and talking about normal caps as a whole.  I highly doubt they are slipping aluminum barrels over caps this small to pass them off as higher rated caps.  And you also seem to forget that solid caps are not immune from poor quality and improper ratings...  I'd take a good quality normal cap over a poor quality solid cap any day.


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## intel igent (Jun 5, 2009)

DUDE!! like WTF!! the guy said he want's solid cap's on HIS card! solid cap's ARE better than regular cap's. if YOU don't like it MOVE ON!


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## enaher (Jun 5, 2009)

intel igent said:


> DUDE!! like WTF!! the guy said he want's solid cap's on HIS card! solid cap's ARE better than regular cap's. if YOU don't like it MOVE ON!



I tried to tell him that, i let it go before he gets a stroke


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## newtekie1 (Jun 5, 2009)

intel igent said:


> DUDE!! like WTF!! the guy said he want's solid cap's on HIS card! solid cap's ARE better than regular cap's. if YOU don't like it MOVE ON!



No, he asked where they were, and I explained that they aren't necessary and would only drive up costs even more.  He then started to argue that they were necessary.  It then changed from what he wanted, to a debate on solid caps being necessary.

No one, including me, is saying solid caps aren't better.  However, that doesn't mean they are necessary.  There are certain applications where solid caps just aren't necessary, and a normal cap will do the job just fine, the AGP HD4670 is one of those applications.

I understand that he wants them, and I want diamonds on my hotdog, but then the hotdog would cost too much...



enaher said:


> I tried to tell him that, i let it go before he gets a stroke



No you didn't, you wanted to argue about how solid caps are required, and then argue about how they are necessary in situations that don't apply here so they are necessary in every situation.


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## lemonadesoda (Jun 5, 2009)

An AGP HD4670 is ONE card that anyone who has got one will try to overclock the crap out of it. Remember, it is the TOP OF THE RANGE for AGP... the end of the proverbial road, but it still isnt fast enough. So as an owner, you have no choice! You gotta OC it if you want moooaaaarrrr.

Now, if you were talking about 4670 on PCIe, I would agree. Solid caps no needed, you are NOT going to OC that! You spend $20 more and get a much better GPU to start with.

IMO, the fact that there is a 4670 PCB with solid caps *is brilliant news*.  Because isnt that just what you need as a basis to swap out the 4670 chip and replace it with a 4770 chip? I think it might be a pin-for-pin swap. Obviously we consumers can't do it... but there may just be one more AGP lurking round the corner. Cant wait  

If there really was a 4770 AGP I think I would buy 3. Replace/update all AGP systems with them. Remember, I have two Q6600 systems on AGP, and another 2x Xeon 5420 on PCIe.  So no "you gotta upgrade" crap thx. I've got some top rigs.  (Excepting a Nehalem-EP of course... which I would love to have... but no budget for at the moment)


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## newtekie1 (Jun 5, 2009)

lemonadesoda said:


> An AGP HD4670 is ONE card that anyone who has got one will try to overclock the crap out of it. Remember, it is the TOP OF THE RANGE for AGP... the end of the proverbial road, but it still isnt fast enough. So as an owner, you have no choice! You gotta OC it if you want moooaaaarrrr.



Solid caps won't help overclocking, and overclocking won't kill normal caps(again, assuming good quality caps are used).  Overvolting maybe, but you would have to be pushing a huge amount of voltage through the caps, and really be pushing them to have problems.



lemonadesoda said:


> Now, if you were talking about 4670 on PCIe, I would agree. Solid caps no needed, you are NOT going to OC that! You spend $20 more and get a much better GPU to start with.



Not only would I, but I have overclocked my PCI-E HD4670.  It was overclocked all 7 months I owned it, from the day it was installed to the day I pulled it from the machine.  I overclock every piece of hardware I possible can.



lemonadesoda said:


> IMO, the fact that there is a 4670 PCB with solid caps *is brilliant news*.  Because isnt that just what you need as a basis to swap out the 4670 chip and replace it with a 4770 chip? I think it might be a pin-for-pin swap. Obviously we consumers can't do it... but there may just be one more AGP lurking round the corner. Cant wait
> 
> If there really was a 4770 AGP I think I would buy 3. Replace/update all AGP systems with them. Remember, I have two Q6600 systems on AGP, and another 2x Xeon 5420 on PCIe.  So no "you gotta upgrade" crap thx. I've got some top rigs.  (Excepting a Nehalem-EP of course... which I would love to have... but no budget for at the moment)



The caps don't have anything to do with if the PCB can take a RV740 or not.  For the most part, if the caps have the same ratings they can be used interchangabily, regardless of if they are solid or normal.


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## btarunr (Jun 5, 2009)

The flaming and bickering in this thread needs to stop, and so do(es) the off-topic argument(s).


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