# AMD Radeon HD 7790 "Bonaire" Detailed Some More



## btarunr (Mar 11, 2013)

AMD appears to have a gaping hole in its product stack, between the ~$110 Radeon HD 7770 and ~$170 Radeon HD 7850 1GB, which needs filling. NVIDIA's ~$150 GeForce GTX 650 Ti appears to be getting cozy in that gap. AMD plans to address this $110~$170 gap not by lowering price of the HD 7850 1GB, but by introducing an entirely new SKU. Since production cost on the 2.8 billion-transistor "Pitcairn" silicon is high, and since the HD 7770 maxes out feature-set of the "Cape Verde" silicon, AMD is left with only one option, to create an entirely new ASIC, which has been codenamed "Bonaire."

According to a Hardware.info report, the first SKU based on this silicon will be named Radeon HD 7790. The chip is said to pack 896 stream processors based on the Graphics CoreNext micro-architecture. It will be equipped to perform roughly 10 percent slower than the Radeon HD 7850, which should make it highly competitive with the GeForce GTX 650 Ti, giving AMD room for further price-tweaking. Bonaire could contribute to low production cost probably by a leaner transistor count, a narrower memory bus than Pitcairn (resulting in lower number of memory chips on the card), and allowing for a more cost-effective VRM. The HD 7790 is expected to be launched in April.



 



*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## T4C Fantasy (Mar 11, 2013)

is that an actual pic of the gpu and card?

the card is a replica 7770...


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## btarunr (Mar 11, 2013)

T4C Fantasy said:


> is that an actual pic of the gpu and card?



Can't be sure, but it's unlikely that there will be a reference design.


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## T4C Fantasy (Mar 11, 2013)

btarunr said:


> Can't be sure, but it's unlikely that there will be a reference design.



the reference design will be w/e shroud amd gives them as default like the 7870 xt which I remade in photoshop to show what it would look like without the retail brandings

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/1860/AMD_Radeon_HD_7870_XT.html


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## Jetster (Mar 11, 2013)

Gives me a huge "Bonaire"


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## dir_d (Mar 11, 2013)

Im a little behind on the info for this card, is it still supposed to be GCN 2.0, Or were hose rumors debunked?


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## T4C Fantasy (Mar 11, 2013)

dir_d said:


> Im a little behind on the info for this card, is it still supposed to be GCN 2.0, Or were hose rumors debunked?



Bonarie is GCN 2.0


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## btarunr (Mar 11, 2013)

dir_d said:


> Im a little behind on the info for this card, is it still supposed to be GCN 2.0, Or were hose rumors debunked?



AMD did mention in its press conference that multiple micro-architectures could fill up one product stack (HD 7000 series). So I won't be surprised if this is GCN 2.0. If HD 7790 (896 SP, 128?-bit GDDR5) is only 10% slower than HD 7850 (1024 SPs, 256-bit GDDR5), then maybe this chip does have performance per clock boost, which could indicate GCN 2.0.


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## Melvis (Mar 11, 2013)

To LATE!! AMD way to late, already bought a GTX 650 Ti and its awesome.


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## NeoXF (Mar 11, 2013)

btarunr said:


> AMD did mention in its press conference that multiple micro-architectures could fill up one product stack (HD 7000 series). So I won't be surprised if this is GCN 2.0. If HD 7790 (896 SP, 128?-bit GDDR5) is only 10% slower than HD 7850 (1024 SPs, 256-bit GDDR5), then maybe this chip does have performance per clock boost, which could indicate GCN 2.0.



It also heard rumors of it packing "just" 768 GCN 2.0 CUs (not sure about ROPs or TMUs and such), clocked at 1075MHz, probably with 5000MHz+ 128bit GDDR5. 768 CUs makes GCN 2.0 seem even more impressive...

As I've said before, this will probably get renamed/tweaked into a later HD 8750/8770...


Edit: OK, apparently even the source that originally said 768 CUs has corrected itself about there actually being 896... sweet either way.


BTW anyone seen the preview on Radeon HD 8790M, compared to what it's supposed to replace (~HD 7690M) and to it's measly 384 CUs, it's a beast, and tho AMD was being vague, I'm pretty sure it's GCN 2.0 as well.


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 11, 2013)

NeoXF said:


> It also heard rumors of it packing "just" 768 GCN 2.0 CUs (not sure about ROPs or TMUs and such), clocked at 1075MHz, probably with 5000MHz+ 128bit GDDR5. 768 CUs makes GCN 2.0 seem even more impressive...


How so? If the 7790 -_assuming_ 768 cores- is 10% slower than the HD 7850:
The 7790 would be core clocked 25% higher (1075M vs 860M for the 7850) plus 200+ MHz effective memory (5000+ vs 4800), while having 25% fewer cores (768 vs 1024 for the 7850). Excepting die size -lower core count and two fewer MC's - which would also lower power consumption, it doesn't look that impressive to my eye. Unless of course, Bonaire carries optimizations not readily shown in overall benchmarks.


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## Prima.Vera (Mar 11, 2013)

OMG! Enough with the 7xxx series already!


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## AlienIsGOD (Mar 11, 2013)

dare they go 192 bit instead of 128 bit for this gpu?


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## dj-electric (Mar 11, 2013)

A 192Bit 1.5GB GPU seems like good option IMO.


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## Nordic (Mar 11, 2013)

I wonder how its gpu compute will be.


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## alwayssts (Mar 11, 2013)

AlienIsGOD said:


> dare they go 192 bit instead of 128 bit for this gpu?



Welcome to me from a year ago.  

This was, and still is, my thought train.

If there is a 896sp sku nothing else makes sense unless they plan on using 7gbps, which while not impossible would seem unlikely for a budget card.  192-bit/5ghz-rated (or something like 4600-4800 stock clock) ram seems more likely.  

Since 896sp *should* take up ~150mm2 (not counting a bigger or faster bus), it makes the choice realistic.  Also, the difference in voltage between current ~5ghz (1.35v) and greater (1.5-1.6v) is another thing worth considering.  192-bit just all-around makes more sense on every conceivable level.  

It's competition would also be 650ti, granted not at stock like 7790. In theory 896sp would perform VERY similar clock per clock.  nVIDIA may be slightly better because of more TMUs, but that's a few percent at most.  In the same power envelope AMD could work some voodoo.  650ti is shoe-horned into a stunted TDP for the sake of 660 and hence overclocks into the ~1150mhz range.  It's possible, if not likely, AMD could clock/powertune rate said part at stock to take on the maximum potential of 650ti (clock difference made up by bandwidth of larger bus or faster ram), and be a similar percent faster over-all than 650ti will be to a 768sp AMD part when both are overclocked (even if both perform similar at stock, which they likely will.)

IOW:  

650ti = 7790 < overclocked 650ti = '8770' > overclocked 8770.  

It's a pretty sound hypothetical, I think, each separated by around 10-15%.  That way AMD can launch at ~130-150 and straight up take on 650ti at similar price points without worrying about losing on performance or price.  Ofc, it appears more and more likely the 'xx50' parts will launch first, like '7790', likely to prop up the ASP of existing 7000 series parts as well as use the neutered part to their full clock potential (rather than artificially limit them as xx50 parts through lower stock clocks and voltage for product segmentation.)

Oh...sorry.

*TLDR: Yes.*


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## btarunr (Mar 11, 2013)

GTX 650Ti uses 128-bit, so I don't think this SKU could step up memory bus width. Maybe it can achieve 96 GB/s using 6.00 GHz.


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## alwayssts (Mar 11, 2013)

btarunr said:


> GTX 650Ti uses 128-bit, so I don't think this SKU could step up memory bus width. Maybe it can achieve 96 GB/s using 6.00 GHz.




Oh, totally agree.  7790 seems most likely 768sp 1075/6ghz 128-bit.

I thought we were talking the gpu, not the sku.

As I kind of glossed over above, it would not surprise me if the 7000 series includes high-clocked salvage parts of the 'next-gen' full gpus for strategic purposes (inventory-clearing?) if not something else (cost/yields of new chips, availability of a new ram spec?) and the full gpus themselves come later to replace the next gpu up.  EX: 7790 fits in the stack, '8770' does not.  7790 could launch soon to compete with 650ti, 8770 later to replace 7850 when the ASP has declined to a level where a gpu of said spec should slot in given it's die size etc.


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## btarunr (Mar 11, 2013)

Margins are often wafer-thin in the sub-$200 market. The incentive behind 128-bit is the need for just four memory chips, a smaller ASIC package (lower pin count), and a few dozen million fewer transistors for the IMCs. To me, 96 GB/s (6 GHz @ 128-bit), or maybe a "feel-better" 100 GB/s using slightly higher clock speeds, should do for a chip like Bonaire.

I think transistor count is factored in more than die-size, in determining manufacturing cost at the foundry-level. No doubt "cost per transistor" goes down with each new (smaller) process, but it's not linear.


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## sparkyar (Mar 11, 2013)

if it really is GCN2, it could be the new 4770 minus the "manufacturing process" change (55nm to 40nm)


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## dj-electric (Mar 11, 2013)

55nm and 40nm are antient technologies by now...


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## Xzibit (Mar 11, 2013)

btarunr said:


> AMD appears to have a gaping hole in its product stack, between the ~$110 Radeon HD 7770 and ~$170 Radeon HD 7850 1GB, which needs filling. NVIDIA's ~$150 GeForce GTX 650 Ti appears to be getting cozy in that gap. AMD plans to address this $110~$170 gap not by lowering price of the HD 7850 1GB, but by introducing an entirely new SKU. Since production cost on the 2.8 billion-transistor "Pitcairn" silicon is high, and since the HD 7770 maxes out feature-set of the "Cape Verde" silicon, *AMD is left with only one option, to create an entirely new ASIC, which has been codenamed "Bonaire.*"





btarunr said:


> AMD did mention in its press conference that multiple micro-architectures could fill up one product stack (HD 7000 series). So I won't be surprised if this is GCN 2.0. If HD 7790 (896 SP, 128?-bit GDDR5) is only 10% slower than HD 7850 (1024 SPs, 256-bit GDDR5), then maybe this chip does have performance per clock boost, which could indicate GCN 2.0.



Dont these contradict each other given reports that if it is GNC 2.0 or a re-spin of GNC 1.0. AMD early reports were that it had tape-out in June 2012 at Samsung plant in Texas.

650 Ti was released September.

What ever AMD was doing came long before hand.


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## Casecutter (Mar 11, 2013)

Melvis said:


> To LATE!! AMD way to late, already bought a GTX 650 Ti and its awesome.


 Well, if you paid >$140, while intend to play acceptably @1920x into the future that will prove problematic.  


AlienIsGOD said:


> dare they go 192 bit instead of 128 bit for this gpu?





btarunr said:


> GTX 650Ti uses 128-bit, so I don't think this SKU could step up memory bus width. Maybe it can achieve 96 GB/s using 6.00 GHz.


I definitely agree with btarunr, 128-Bit would stay cost effective, while don't think they'll need much over 90Gb/s in bandwidth to achieve what the need to play at 1920x while remain under the 7850.  And has AMD/ATI ever had a 192-Bit card? I can't recall any... honestly. 



sparkyar said:


> if it really is GCN2, it could be the new 4770 minus the "manufacturing process" change (55nm to 40nm)


I understood what you meant... it’s what’s called a "pipe cleaner".  Very may well be GCN2 initial analysis to see how maneuvering and placement (a juggling of what on the silicone sections) to improve their interaction and efficiency to improve TDP.

Edit... Lastly I see this helping "reign-in" the selling the "Pitcairn" at as low as $150.  I think AMD Pitcairn production at this point has the XT in abundance. They'd rather curtail the 7850's almost completely, and give the prominence of sales to 7870’s at around $200.  That places the GTX660 and even the GTX600Ti back on it's heels in a price position similar to what the GTX650Ti was having against the 7770/7850, while consider AMD has the 7870 Tahiti(LE) at $240.


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## btarunr (Mar 11, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> Dont these contradict each other given reports that if it is GNC 2.0 or a re-spin of GNC 1.0. AMD early reports were that it had tape-out in June 2012 at Samsung plant in Texas.
> 
> 650 Ti was released September.



They don't.


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## suraswami (Mar 11, 2013)

The cheapest 7850 1GB on egg is about $155 AR.  So may be this will be around $130?  So 2 x CF of these = 7950?


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## Casecutter (Mar 11, 2013)

suraswami said:


> The cheapest 7850 1GB on egg is about $155 AR.  So may be this will be around $130?  So 2 x CF of these = 7950?


Read my edit above... I wouldn't wait for a $130 price... AMD and AIB will just let 7850 1Gb slip from the channel over the next couple of weeks. 
I'd will-call them from Egg now, and get on the 57Frwy... and start the fun tonight!


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## itsakjt (Mar 11, 2013)

How will this be as an upgrade to my overclocked 6770? (See specs)


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## NeoXF (Mar 11, 2013)

itsakjt said:


> How will this be as an upgrade to my overclocked 6770? (See specs)



Should more or less, be at HD 6950 levels of performance... So... go from there...


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## itsakjt (Mar 11, 2013)

NeoXF said:


> Should more or less, be at HD 6950 levels of performance... So... go from there...



Ahh that will be great for me.


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## Novaguy (Mar 11, 2013)

I see them getting rid of the 7850 1gb and sliding in the Bonaire into the 650 Ti price, maybe slightly cheaper, and then the 7850 2gb can slide down in price a little as the next round of price cuts take effect.

I also don't think the 7790 will have 896 units, it most likely would have 768 shader units.  Shades of what AMD did between the 5000 series and the 6000 series (5670 had 400 shaders, 6670 had 480, etc) - just add another increment of shaders as the process technology at 28nm gets better.

I remember seeing rumors of a 768 shader radeon 8770, with 128 bit, maybe 192 bit memory, and suspect that the 7790 is the new name.  This way they can just test out the drivers for GCN 2.0's without too much bad press as to their halo product having bad fps, and then when the GCN 2.0 drivers are optimized bring out the 8000 series in late 2013/early 2014.


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## Xzibit (Mar 11, 2013)

Novaguy said:


> I remember seeing rumors of a 768 shader radeon 8770, with 128 bit, maybe 192 bit memory, and suspect that the 7790 is the new name.  This way they can just test out the drivers for GCN 2.0's without too much bad press as to their halo product having bad fps, and then when the GCN 2.0 drivers are optimized bring out the 8000 series in late 2013/early 2014.



*Rumors*

Bonaire Pro = 640 VS / 40 TC / 16 ROPs / 128-bit / ?GB
Bonaire XT = 768 VS / 48 TC / 16 ROPs / 128-bit / ?GB

Hainan LE = 1024 VS / 64 TC / 32 ROPs / 256-bit / ?GB
Hainan Pro = 1536 VS / 96 TC / 32 ROPs / 256-bit / ?GB
Hainan XT = 1792 VS / 112 TC / 32 ROPs / 256-bit / ?GB

Venus LE = 2048 VS / 128 TC / 32 ROPs / 384-bit / ?GB
Venus Pro = 2304 VS / 144 TC / 48 ROPs / 384-bit / 3GB
Venus XT = 2560 VS / 160 TC / 48 ROPs / 384-bit / 3GB
Venus XTX = 2560 VS / 160 TC / 48 ROPs / 384-bit (x2) / 6GB


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## T4C Fantasy (Mar 11, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> *Rumors*
> 
> Bonaire Pro = 640 VS / 40 TC / 16 ROPs / 128-bit / ?GB
> Bonaire XT = 768 VS / 48 TC / 16 ROPs / 128-bit / ?GB
> ...



venus is mobile only and I doubt there will be a mobile part with 2.5k shaders


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## itsakjt (Mar 11, 2013)

I think the 7790 will be 192 bit or 256 bit as the 6790 itself was 256 bit.


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## Xzibit (Mar 11, 2013)

T4C Fantasy said:


> venus is mobile only and I doubt there will be a mobile part with 2.5k shaders



Just put those up since they been floating around for a few months.

If it ends up being Bonaire. The other two names are mostly likely to be Aruba & Curacao. Named after the Dutch Caribbean ABC Islands
or
Caribbean Netherlands BES Islands
Bonaire, Sin Eustatius, Saba


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## Casecutter (Mar 11, 2013)

A) The 6790 was on a gleded "Barts", so is why it had 256-Bit.

B) Show me another AMD/ATI that has used 192-Bit?

C) 768Sp is 20% over the 640 of Cape Verde, 896Sp would 40%; while 896Sp part would be ~12% less the 7850 1024Sp of the 7850 Pitcairn.  Consider there's about a 50% difference in perfromance from 640/1024 (plus over 100% memory bandwidth) I'm leaning to the 896Sp part while holding to a ~90 Gb/s memory bandwidth on 128-Bit. That might be what they need to be as they said close to a 7850, along with the 7770 more than 25% behind a GTX650Ti I think a 896Sp part will be.  Unless the GNC2 has more bang in each shader.


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## AlienIsGOD (Mar 11, 2013)

From Tom's a few mins ago: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Radeon-7790-Saturn-GPU,21447.html

from the article "The HD 7790 will feature 786 shader processors instead of the previously indicated 896, a clock rate of 1075 MHz and 2 GB of GDDR5 memory over a 128-bit interface and support DirectX 11.1 and OpenGL 4.3."

also "According to a now redacted result posted on CL benchmark's website, the HD 7790 can be expected to provide 10 percent lower performance than a HD 7850."

Finally "The Radeon HD 7790 has a recommended price of £118 and will be available in April 2013."


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## DarkOCean (Mar 11, 2013)

"Interestingly, the HD 7790 is actually based on the *22 nm* Bonnaire XT chip and uses the GNC 2.0 "
Awesome if it's true.


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## Xzibit (Mar 11, 2013)

If infact its a 22nm I think you can expect a 20-25% performance increase.

Hmm..
New Tahiti and GK104 will be nipping at TITAN for less then half the price.


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## DarkOCean (Mar 11, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> If infact its a 22nm I think you can expect a 20-25% performance increase.
> 
> Hmm..
> New Tahiti and GK104 will be nipping at TITAN for less then half the price.



what new tahiti?


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## btarunr (Mar 11, 2013)

AlienIsGOD said:


> From Tom's a few mins ago: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Radeon-7790-Saturn-GPU,21447.html
> 
> from the article "The HD 7790 will feature 786 shader processors instead of the previously indicated 896, a clock rate of 1075 MHz and 2 GB of GDDR5 memory over a 128-bit interface and support DirectX 11.1 and OpenGL 4.3."
> 
> ...



AMD has no means of building chips on 22 nm, 786 stream processors is impossible, GNC 2.0 architecture doesn't exist. Besides, that Tom's article cites the same HWI source as me. So Tom's just got things wrong.


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## Melvis (Mar 12, 2013)

Casecutter said:


> Well, if you paid >$140, while intend to play acceptably @1920x into the future that will prove problematic.



I paid $154 AUS Dollars, and when buying this card you don't realy expect it to be for high res monitors. My GTX 650 Ti will be run on a monitor of 1680*1050 at the most.

I was going to go with a 7770 but the card was to long for a mini PC build, when the 650 Ti came out it was more powerful, shorter but a little more expensive but worth it. I cant se this new 7790 to be any shorter then the 7770? and performance i have no idea, so over all the 650 Ti still wins in my eyes for people building a PC with very limited space.


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## Xzibit (Mar 12, 2013)

btarunr said:


> AMD has no means of building chips on 22 nm, 786 stream processors is impossible, GNC 2.0 architecture doesn't exist. Besides, that Tom's article cites the same HWI source as me. So Tom's just got things wrong.



Intel / Global Foundries / Samsung are all producing 22nm.

TSMC was skipping 22nm to go 20nm then it realized it was an expensive move (loosing business while transitioning) and started doing 22nm runs in H2 2012

So all the major players are at 22nm and below.


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## NeoXF (Mar 12, 2013)

If R7790 is OpenGL 4.3-compliant, that that pretty much makes it confirmed that this is a different architecture than Southern Islands.

Also that Anand articles someone posted is as old as the one I read from another place... that corrected itself in the meanwhile saying it's 896 actually, again.


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## btarunr (Mar 12, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> Intel / Global Foundries / Samsung are all producing 22nm.
> 
> TSMC was skipping 22nm to go 20nm then it realized it was an expensive move (loosing business while transitioning) and started doing 22nm runs in H2 2012
> 
> So all the major players are at 22nm and below.



TSMC isn't making 22 nm, its foundry processes below 28 nm won't enter mass production before Q4 2013, likewise with Samsung. AMD won't give its precious GPU designs to Intel.


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## Xzibit (Mar 12, 2013)

(GP)IBM, Samsung, Global Foundries & TSMC, UMC are all doing Low volume production runs of 20nm process.  Mass production is slated for 2H 2013 

AMD was first to 28nm so might beat Nvidia to 20nm aswell


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## btarunr (Mar 12, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> (GP)IBM, Samsung, Global Foundries & TSMC, UMC are all doing Low volume production runs of 20nm process.  Mass production is slated for 2H 2013
> 
> AMD was first to 28nm so might beat Nvidia to 20nm aswell



And how does low-volume production help HD 7790, given that HD 7790 is being designed for a highly competitive (high-volume) market segment?


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## Nordic (Mar 12, 2013)

Ya, low volume production wont help. Its a 7790 not a amd olympian special edition card.


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## Xzibit (Mar 12, 2013)

Its all speculation on what 7790 is at the moment .

It just seams silly to me that 



btarunr said:


> AMD has no means of building chips on 22 nm, 786 stream processors is impossible, GNC 2.0 architecture doesn't exist. *Besides, that Tom's article cites the same HWI source as me. So Tom's just got things wrong*.



Your speculation on his speculation and citing same source and saying my ediotrial is better than his.
Why not just site the real source instead of linking to a source that links to the source 

*SOURCE for both of yours*. Heise (German) English Translated

Information is there from the real source your both getting it at.  Not to mention the source your linking was a day old linking to a 7 day old article.



> The heart of the Radeon HD 7790 is a graphics chip with 896 Bonaire shader cores. It is manufactured in 28-nanometer process and supports DirectX 11.1 and OpenGL 4.3.



More real source linking.  Less editorial butchering.


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## Casecutter (Mar 12, 2013)

Melvis said:


> I paid $154 AUS Dollars, and when buying this card you don't realy expect it to be for high res monitors. My GTX 650 Ti will be run on a monitor of 1680*1050 at the most.
> 
> I was going to go with a 7770 but the card was to long for a mini PC build, when the 650 Ti came out it was more powerful, shorter but a little more expensive but worth it. I cant se this new 7790 to be any shorter then the 7770? and performance i have no idea, so over all the 650 Ti still wins in my eyes for people building a PC with very limited space.


Didn't intend that to slight you personally, sorry!  What Mini chassis where you constructing in? 

With the explanation above you've taken into account several of the GTX650Ti good points, while understand it’s limitation.  A GTX650Ti are nice cards, low power/heat in a small package, and if like in your case, one of a small group offer several with rear exhaust.  All that said Nvidias' pricing is still wacked... and shouldn’t have anyone anteing-up $160 USD especially at this point.  But when in the particular circumstances (like your own), its' fitting and with performance to suite, even if it costs in the wallet... you have to go that direction.


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## btarunr (Mar 12, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> Your speculation on his speculation and citing same source and saying my ediotrial is better than his.
> Why not just site the real source instead of linking to a source that links to the source



Because TechPowerUp's and HWI's articles are closer to Heise's than Tom's. Unless you're dumb enough to find merit in "786 stream processors, GNC 2.0, and 22 nm" (Tom's editorial butchering).



Xzibit said:


> More real source linking.  Less editorial butchering.



More commenting on the message, less menstruating on the messenger.


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## itsakjt (Mar 12, 2013)

Casecutter said:


> A) The 6790 was on a gleded "Barts", so is why it had 256-Bit.
> 
> B) Show me another AMD/ATI that has used 192-Bit?
> 
> C) 768Sp is 20% over the 640 of Cape Verde, 896Sp would 40%; while 896Sp part would be ~12% less the 7850 1024Sp of the 7850 Pitcairn.  Consider there's about a 50% difference in perfromance from 640/1024 (plus over 100% memory bandwidth) I'm leaning to the 896Sp part while holding to a ~90 Gb/s memory bandwidth on 128-Bit. That might be what they need to be as they said close to a 7850, along with the 7770 more than 25% behind a GTX650Ti I think a 896Sp part will be.  Unless the GNC2 has more bang in each shader.



AMD/ATI never used 192 bit-True. But that does not mean they will never use it. I am pretty much certain that it will not be a 128 bit one. Memory bus width is one of the most important characteristics of a GPU. Increasing clock speed won't just do the job. It is just like increasing the memory frequency of RAM instead of making dual channel. You will be never able to achieve the bandwidth of dual channel memory using single channel unless it is overclocked from say 1600 MHz to 2600 MHz.


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## Xzibit (Mar 12, 2013)

btarunr said:


> Because TechPowerUp's and HWI's articles are closer to Heise's than Tom's. Unless you're dumb enough to find merit in "786 stream processors, GNC 2.0, and 22 nm" (Tom's editorial butchering).
> 
> 
> 
> More commenting on the message, less menstruating on the messenger.



Nice, very Pro. 

A more informative News post with information already provided by the original source leads to a more informed user base.


Maybe its better to have put this in the feedback section.


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## btarunr (Mar 12, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> A more informative News post with information already provided by the original source leads to a more informed user base.



Fascinating. Tell me more (here).



Xzibit said:


> Maybe its better to have put this in the feedback section.



Looking forward to having the last word on your feedback.


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## AlienIsGOD (Mar 12, 2013)

o noes i posted an  article from Tom's and ppls panties are all in a bunch now.


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## Casecutter (Mar 12, 2013)

Melvis said:


> I am pretty much certain that it will not be a 128 bit one. Memory *bus width* is one of the most important characteristics of a GPU.



When it comes to "budget friendly gaming" they could get on with 192-Bit, but wouldn’t that mean a different or change of their memory controller also… That would be a huge transformation, that even btarunr in post #19 articulately  shot down.  While remember the 7770 dropped _bandwidth_ over the 6770 like 7%, both were 128-Bit. Did it hurt performance... Nope! The 7770 was still above it like 18%, that was all GNC architecture and achieved all that with 20% lower TDP, not like the 6770 was terrible to begin with.

I still see 128-Bit as sufficient by just spec’n in faster GDDR5, which has come a long way since the 7770 was originally developed at 4500Mhz (effective).  Reference 7770 has 1250 MHz (5000 MHz GDDR5 effective) more often still, but many GTX650Ti use 1500 MHz (6000 MHz GDDR5 effective).  I think if AMD will run at 1500Mhz that’s 20% increase which should give them something above to 90Gb/s bandwidth, which I’m sure they’ve tested to deduce it's sufficient and doesn’t bottleneck 1920x resolution.  Perhaps look at a GTX660 similar… GK106 with 8% increase in clock and one extra SMX, it has 192-Bit pumping 144 Gb/s or 60% more bandwidth.  All that together delivers 35% better performance at 1920x from a GTX650Ti that's running say 1550Mhz.  How much is that chip/SMX (25% more computing power running 8% faster), while how much is bandwidth?  Hard to know?

While I entirely agree memory "bandwidth" is an important attribute, what I contemplate; does it really expound on game FpS, or in the ability turn up the settings given the changes "Bonaire" has in store?  Hard to know, but it not a given...


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## Casecutter (Mar 13, 2013)

Here’s another thinking, each GNC compute units = 64.  7770 = 10 computes or 640 (Sp) Shader part.  While the 7870 has 20 computes yeilding 1280Sp; 7850/16/1024 Sp.

*-* 12 Compute units = 768 Sp or 20% (that isn’t enough oomph to get close to a 7850 and should've been what a 7770 release with) 
*-* 13 = 832 Sp or 30% (nice, but odd number computes have yet be in GNC architecture)
*-* 14 = 896 or 40% more than a 7770, while a >25% in bandwidth would make the sweet-spot. The 7850 has 16 compute units 1024 Sp ~15% more than 896Sp.

Unless "Bonaire" has been juggled at the compute level, like AMD moved to say 72 per compute units each, an idea I don't completely discount.  I'm thinking a 896 Shader part clocked at around 1050Mhz; memory chugging 5800mhz effective on 128-Bit.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 13, 2013)

Casecutter said:


> Here’s another thinking, each GNC compute units = 64.  7770 = 10 computes or 640 (Sp) Shader part.  While the 7870 has 20 computes yeilding 1280Sp; 7850/16/1024 Sp.
> 
> *-* 12 Compute units = 768 Sp or 20% (that isn’t enough oomph to get close to a 7850 and should've been what a 7770 release with)
> *-* 13 = 832 Sp or 30% (nice, but odd number computes have yet be in GNC architecture)
> ...



Thats some epic double posting dude im kinda glad it was split up in a way.
Could Amd have put more double precision specific shaders in, the open cl benches floating about have me pondering.


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## Melvis (Mar 13, 2013)

Casecutter said:


> Didn't intend that to slight you personally, sorry!  What Mini chassis where you constructing in?
> 
> With the explanation above you've taken into account several of the GTX650Ti good points, while understand it’s limitation.  A GTX650Ti are nice cards, low power/heat in a small package, and if like in your case, one of a small group offer several with rear exhaust.  All that said Nvidias' pricing is still wacked... and shouldn’t have anyone anteing-up $160 USD especially at this point.  But when in the particular circumstances (like your own), its' fitting and with performance to suite, even if it costs in the wallet... you have to go that direction.



The case i built it in is in the following link > http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179353

Was a custom build using a early case that i fell in love with 

Yea overall the card is realy good and with it able to exhaust was a big bonues for me, but i do agree the price was to high, i waited a good month or more hopeing for the prices to drop (they didn't realy lol) so i bit the bullet and went for it and im happy with it


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## Nordic (Mar 13, 2013)

Melvis said:


> The case i built it in is in the following link > http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179353
> 
> Was a custom build using a early case that i fell in love with
> 
> Yea overall the card is realy good and with it able to exhaust was a big bonues for me, but i do agree the price was to high, i waited a good month or more hopeing for the prices to drop (they didn't realy lol) so i bit the bullet and went for it and im happy with it



They are good cards. A friend wanted a newer nvidea card to upgrade from his 250. I recommended that card. This is silent and we could not get it above 65c even at load and with max overclock It has such a small heatsink too.


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## makwy2 (Mar 13, 2013)

Am I looking at my next GPU? Maybe... depends on the soon to be announced 8000 series!


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## Melvis (Mar 13, 2013)

james888 said:


> They are good cards. A friend wanted a newer nvidea card to upgrade from his 250. I recommended that card. This is silent and we could not get it above 65c even at load and with max overclock It has such a small heatsink too.



Agreed!! Even with mine in a very tight small space i dont hear it, it is indeed very silent. Also temps are great! with the side panel on my mini PC it reaches around 70c so even in small spaces it just doesn't get hot, very impressed, love the card. Highly recommended


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## Rahmat Sofyan (Mar 16, 2013)

Sapphire 7790 maybe...


















And Leaked Benchmark...


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## Jetster (Mar 16, 2013)

Not bad. But how much?


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