# Does gaming headsets work better with Amps?



## Elkhawaga (Jan 8, 2016)

Hello, all...

I planing to get good headset for gaming... Razer Kraken forged or Steelseries elite prism,

- Will i get more clearer sound with an Amp? or Amps only for the high impedance headphones?

i know the onboard is good so please don't repeat that, just answer me please

Thanks.


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## RCoon (Jan 8, 2016)

An amp might produce better results, simply because onboard audio has the potential to be interfered with by electrical signals on the motherboard. Dedicated sound equipment is almost always better than onboard audio on most motherboards. Neither the Razer nor the Steelseries require 600 ohms from an amp though. Hell, I think the Steelseries uses USB for power.


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 8, 2016)

Depends on the amp. Clearer sound? Khrmm... it really depends on what you seek for... 

Most probably yes. Go for it a dedicated modern DAC unit will sound better... 

High/low impenece? Low needs current and low output Z, only achievable with external amplifier power stage.

High impedance needs higher voltage not current, 12V is not enough to drive them so again, no go for a PC, external stage needed for bigger voltage swing, to reduce distortion and increase linearity.

PC output... driving headphones is only generic, the numbers with dedicated headphone amp IC's are not bad btw, but you have to cherry pick the headphones and match the equipment. You can't plug anything and expect it to work the same... those "audiophile" reviewers are often idiots comparing things that are not comparable on the same hardware often.

General rules. 16Ohm and less is a no go for a PC, increase of distortion.  64ohm is the golden best. Past 250ohm you have not enough gain, but they will always offer less distortion, but really tough to drive... albeit there is one plus for them, why I use them... you can use them directly in high power output stages, it is safe. It is very specific.


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## truth teller (Jan 8, 2016)

Elkhawaga said:


> Will i get more clearer sound with an Amp?


clearer no, but you will get "better bass", since external amps normally have larger capacitors they can "add" (not really add just making sound like it should) volume to lower frequency sounds


Elkhawaga said:


> or Amps only for the high impedance headphones?


normally yes, unless you enjoy a "warmer" sound level

for instance, im using a crappy class-t external amp (repurposed from "old" loud speakers) between mb sound card and phones and without it the deeper sounds just dont pack as much punch on some standard phones

you can always try some cheap external preamps of ebay and check for yourself before buying one for good, make sure to get one with either some class-t or class-a op-amp to avoid distortion (avoid "old valve"/vacuum-tube stuff like the plague, its just a regular amp with a low pass filter and bass expansion that audiophiles like to brag about)


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## Jetster (Jan 8, 2016)

Sound can be really tricky. Lots of options. Way more complicated then video. But generally speaking more Amps the better and the DAC outside of the case instead of inside the less interference you will have.

Fill out your specs
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/account/specs

And your statement about your onboard is out of line. You asking for advice. You need to be willing to listen even if you don't like the advice. You don't have to follow it

Ill give you an example. I have a Gigabyte Z97X Gaming G1. One of the best rated onboard sounds systems. The ASUS Xonar DGX a $30 sound card blows it away


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 8, 2016)

truth teller said:


> since external amps normally have larger capacitors they can "add" (not really add just making sound like it should) volume to lower frequency sounds



Low frequency response has actually very low connection to power supply filtering caps... without snake oil and fairy tales.



truth teller said:


> (avoid "old valve"/vacuum-tube stuff like the plague, its just a regular amp with a low pass filter and bass expansion that audiophiles like to brag about)



Don't judge about things you vaguely understand. There good and bad examples in each type of equipment. My favorite amp is still tube output transformer less amp. 6AS7 triode one half has 280ohm plate resistance, thus making it possible to drive 600ohm headphones without a hassle, coupled with 6SN7 at the front, especially for headphones I don't get fatigue so fast from listening due to the increased even order distortion vs the solid state.

You have to learn a lot background and measurements to actually understand your feelings like, warmer, harsh, clear etc subjective rubbish based on the numbers and curves you actually have seen when measuring the device.


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## silentbogo (Jan 8, 2016)

Steelseries has a built-in DAC+some sort of pre-amp, so it won't benefit from an external DAC that much. Kraken only has analog i/o, so it solely relies on your built-in audio card and Razer software for it's pseudo-surround "features".

I am not very picky about my audio and been using cheap Sennheiser HD201 for the past 3 years (including the last year after semi-successful Bluetooth conversion), so when it comes to evaluating sound quality - I'm the last person you'd want to ask. 
But purely from the technical side of things Steelseries Siberia Elite Prism is your cheapest and best option.


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 8, 2016)

silentbogo said:


> I'm the last person you'd want to ask.



Good ears is definetly more than a curse than a gift.... I can assure you that


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## Elkhawaga (Jan 8, 2016)

Ohh! all that!

I listed it, Jetster.

I just wanted to get impressively clear sound at gaming and music listening as well, i think i will blow my idea to get a gaming headset from my mind.

i seek for clarity not the sound level, should i buy a premuim headphones + amp ?


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## qubit (Jan 8, 2016)

Ferrum Master said:


> You can't plug anything and expect it to work the same... *those "audiophile" reviewers are often idiots* comparing things that are not comparable on the same hardware often.


Rubbish! I'm an audiophile and can tell you that expensive HDMI cables give a better picture!


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 8, 2016)

Elkhawaga said:


> premuim headphones + amp ?



Yes... gamer headphones is a overpriced anyway... chose from respectable old makers like AKG, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic.

Next argument is comfort and then the sound, what's the sound if you can't stand them more than 30mins, sweat, neck pain, clamp too stiff etc...

You have to try them on, just as hats have sizes, yes our skulls have different shapes and size. The headphones also are different, you have to try them on just as shoes and see. Normal audio shops provide possibility to try on headphones... it is a very very vital point.

Then the sound. It is very a intimate question... if the price point is same, they only differ in attenuation in different bands due to driver and enclosure construction. Some are well known to accent bass region, some are very bright at the highs etc... the difference are only 3-6dB at the edges, but each person percepts in a different way... one is so deaf... maybe a war veteran, they are know to be deaf at gun shot sound frequencies, so they won't bother at all.

The only option is to test and find what fits you best. You should go to some audio related shop and test stuff out. The amp is more or less a simple task... usually the more it weights, the better it is lol... but I would like to 2W class A output and some good proven DAC option in it too.


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## truth teller (Jan 8, 2016)

Ferrum Master said:


> Low frequency response has actually very low connection to power supply filtering caps... without snake oil and fairy tales.





Ferrum Master said:


> Don't judge about things you vaguely understand.


the caps ive mentioned are not filtering caps but "hold up" caps, they provide the aditional power during high demand, like beat-drum scenarios. cmon, you should have known this, if you are so into the subject...



Ferrum Master said:


> You have to learn a lot background and measurements to actually understand your feelings like, warmer, harsh, clear etc subjective rubbish based on the numbers and curves you actually have seen when measuring the device.


distortion curves begges to differ, and are also the right meassurement to take into account, not "feeling"s

on the other hand, liking "warmer audio" (low+band-pass) isnt bad in itself. modern implementations of such with its rubish (read fake) chinese tube valves are just not the same

regardless, i believe op is after a change in audio quality from using an external amp, it wont change the quality (unless the amp is fed a digital signal and has a very good dac), what will most likely happen when using an external amp is higher volume and better bass. those who had an old creative sound card should know this, they shipped with embed opamps, and although the audio quality wasnt the best on those cards (crosstalk between inputs and outputs, low dac/adc operational frequency, etc.) they did provide a warmer audio with a rich bass line which many people liked (including myself)


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 8, 2016)

truth teller said:


> the caps ive mentioned are not filtering caps but "hold up" caps, they provide the aditional power during high demand, like beat-drum scenarios. cmon, you should have known this, if you are so into the subject...



These things do not need HOLD for a device that eats 10-15W, It ain't a 100-1000W poweramp driving 3ohm load and where voltage sag may occur. At such currents the copper wire and transformer delivers enough juice. The only thing those caps do is ripple filtering.

Chinese tubes are not fake, they are Chinese tubes still with their markings and names, they are russian tech tubes made from impurer elements. The most often flaw to use them in circuits calculated for different tubes, they have different operational points, so don't complain about things again. People just like to bash on things they never held in hands and tried to use them actually in a proper way.

The quality will rise just by the fact as it will give less THD, waaay less crosstalk and a bit higher dynamic range, because the poor mans integrated audio will not have to drive a low impedance load. So an upgrade will be there just by doing that!

I have had all ISA/PCI/PCIE Creative cards since AWE64 Gold... I can't understand the heck you are saying... ASIO and Bitperfect is Bitperfect, if you want to screw around with gamer features like DSP effects etc, you are pleased to do that too... both camps are happy.


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## truth teller (Jan 8, 2016)

Ferrum Master said:


> These things do not need HOLD for a device that eats 10-15W, It ain't a 100-1000W poweramp driwing 3ohm load and where voltage sag may occur. At such currents the copper wire and transformer delivers enough juice. The only thing those caps do is ripple filtering.


audio output from an external amp with bigger caps is the same as straight audio from onboard codecs? okei dokei...



Ferrum Master said:


> Chinese tubes are not fake, they are Chinese tubes still with their markings and names, they are russian tech tubes made from impurer elements. The most often flaw to use them in circuits calculated for different tubes, they have different operational points, so don't complain about things again. People just like to bash on things they never held in hands and tried to use them actually in a proper way.


i have tried some "newage" tubes, how is that saying, "bite me once, wont bite me twice"? besides i would never recomend "tube stuff" in this thread, for christ sake, op is asking about audio quality between onboard and + external amp. would it be wise to let op spend 500+ canadian pesos on a chinese tube "powered" amp with tube valves that glow blue? please...



Ferrum Master said:


> ... THD, waaay less crosstalk and a bit higher dynamic range
> ...
> I can't understand the heck you are saying... ASIO and Bitperfect is Bitperfect


although ive briefly mentioned a digital signal in my previous post (if using external dac), the reference to creative hardware was about the analog signals (crosstalk on digital signals?), and if you never noticed or perhaps didnt know, creative drivers had workarounds to prevent most of the crosstalk with embed "filters/rules" that removed most of the this hardware crosstalk on some of their cards (similar to the echo cancelation on todays microphones scenarios) (for instance, try a sound blaster live on a linux box or with unofficial windows drivers [cant remmember the name, ksomething, had a blue interface])

this is starting to go a bit offtopic, im afraid this thread will soon start to turn into a feud about cable pebbels and ps1 cd readers so ill just leave this here:
find someone with an external amp, op, and check the difference in sound, using the same headphones (you can use crappy ones, ones with bigger drivers are preffered) between just the onboard output and onboard passed through the amp. or you can get one of those cheap ass preamps, i mentioned earlier of fleabay, and check for yourself (the one linked mentions a complementary power supply to power it, but you can totally use a 9v battery hooked into the +&- to test it out, or better yet a 12v charger or the like). better bass response, same quality


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 8, 2016)

truth teller said:


> audio output from an external amp with bigger caps is the same as straight audio from onboard codecs? okei dokei...



Just re-read what did you say. You mixed things together and start talking about completely else, there are good and bad devices as I said... and as I said Chinese Tubes are not direct replacements of western parts!!!! So no wonder people get negative results, they are just out of the loop versus 70ties people who where used to this tech. You just deny them all as such, and I say that not all of them is black... there are good implementations of it really. 

Those were Daniel K Kx drivers for Live! cards...winXP time frame. Basically it is just a mashup of own creative dll's to fix out some features not working lately(you can fix always by yourself the driver, Daniel just put it together in one installer). Since death of direct sound they are not needed sound wise, but compatibility wise. Creative cards show FLAT frequency response, your argument about more bass etc is not seen anywhere, it measures FLAT unless you put the equalizer, I really don't like these who shout such gibberish based on nothing. Filters? Filters are needed, usually the DAC itself does it, depending either it is operating in hardware or software mode whenever is driver controlled, it does a lot of filtering mojo like the overpriced MUSE opamps. Well it may be also bad or it may be really good. It depends on the device and implementation. It is not necessary a bad thing.

Creative and Linux? You even now the story... they are known to hate each other for ages. The driver is beyond broken actually. It is even worse than apple supporting open source software.

The chap needs a simple dedicated USB DAC... like this for example. Quality parts around, the only hope that they are not really counterfeit. Then headphones based on his taste.


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## truth teller (Jan 8, 2016)

[slightly-offtopic]


Ferrum Master said:


> Daniel K Kx drivers for Live! cards...winXP time frame


thats the one


Ferrum Master said:


> Creative cards show FLAT frequency response, your argument about more bass etc is not seen anywhere, it measures FLAT unless you put the equalizer, I really don't like these who shout such gibberish based on nothing.


and i havent said otherwise, i said more bass compared to most onboard solutions that output directly from dac/codec without any op-amp in between and/or having hold up caps (thus providing less miliamps than an external amp will, thus lacking bass due to oscillating driver resistance/ohm value during driver movement in high-volume-low-frequency scenarios, even if average snr is still the same on both scenarios):





truth teller said:


> "add" (not really add just making sound like it should) volume to lower frequency sounds


[/slightly-offtopic]





Ferrum Master said:


> The chap needs a simple dedicated USB DAC... Then headphones based on his taste.


why invest in a cheap external dac when he already has a cheap internal dac on the motherboard? why not just amplify the mb analog output?

while the device you linked had an integrated amplifier along with the digital-to-analog-converter, for 190 silver coins its not "simple" nor worth it for op (you get a whole hifi setup for that price). he mentioned he wants to game using phones, for god sake, not orgasm while analysing the hidden farts in some orchestra performance recordings

and if he ends up buying a pair of phones with an integrated dac (usb phones), both options benefits are nullified, if he buys a pair of standard analog phones a preamp adds something, an external dac doesnt

hey op is there a chance of you getting onto a computer or audio hardware store and try the different solutions? ask to try some headphones, plug them onto you cellphone (dont expect awesome quality most phones dac suck ass), then ask to try an amp between the two. then ask for the best dac/amp they have there and see if they can play a quality recording on it and see if that floats your boat.
do you own a proper hifi setup or similar, you can compared the audio of the same song being played on that on the same phones with the vanilla onboard played audio.
try, then buy what you like the most


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## DarthBaggins (Jan 9, 2016)

I personally run everything through my Rotel Amp & Rotel Pre-Amp setup, I have a new(er) Pioneer receiver that is digital optical compatible & HDMI capable I want to run my rig through (will be using my 6 x 100 Rotel Amp w/ the receiver as well (which only matters for my speakers not headset))


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## xvi (Jan 9, 2016)

Not an audiophile by any means, but I'll throw in my two cents. I don't go far without my AKG K553 Pro and Sound Blaster E5. For a more cinematic experience, the E5 and my Sennheiser HD 280 Pro was very nice when watching Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation.
I don't like to think of the total cost for all that though. For actual value, I've heard the Kingston HyperX Cloud is a decent choice for a gaming headset with reasonably good sound. I've heard rumors that all other headsets are pretty bad.


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## remixedcat (Jan 9, 2016)

best to get a proper dac  like a fiio or schiit and some sennheiser or byerdynamic heaphones and  a yeti mic or something


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## DarthBaggins (Jan 10, 2016)

Just hooked this lil guy up  to my Polk Monitor 40 speakers (will be connecting my Rotel 6 x100w amp tomorrow) , but I do want to snag a real headset soon, sooo many choices out there makes it hard to choose (looking at spending close to $300 max unless a voice in my head wins the argument to spend more lol)

Pioneer VSX-520


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## R-T-B (Jan 10, 2016)

This is the DAC + Amp I'm using at present:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A2QLPJM/?tag=tec06d-20

Don't let the price fool you:  It can power most anything up to 250 ohms according to it's specs.  It's ridicules overkill for my 35 ohm Phillips headphones I use...  but the price was right.  Pretty good DAC for the money.

That said, for the headphones you are looking at, I'm not sure you need it.


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## remixedcat (Jan 10, 2016)

i got a fiio e7


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## Mussels (Jan 10, 2016)

DarthBaggins said:


> Just hooked this lil guy up  to my Polk Monitor 40 speakers (will be connecting my Rotel 6 x100w amp tomorrow) , but I do want to snag a real headset soon, sooo many choices out there makes it hard to choose (looking at spending close to $300 max unless a voice in my head wins the argument to spend more lol)
> 
> Pioneer VSX-520




thats the model up from mine, i'm running the VX-519V 

running a yamaha 5.1 set with mine and its glorious for gaming. I also use the headphone jack to power my HD-555's (modded to 595's) and it works great.


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