# [Solved] Need replacement backup program



## qubit (May 28, 2017)

*SEE UPDATE AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST*

Been using Karen's Replicator for over a decade to make mirror backups and it's been flawless, but now the program doesn't work properly any more - and the problem is unfixable - so I need a replacement and would be grateful for suggestions.







The problem is with destination folder creations and deletions. For deletions it fails silently, leaving the folder there. For creations (ie exists on source, but not destination) it pauses for a couple of seconds _for every file in the missing folder_ and carries on. When the backup is complete, the log file shows that it couldn't find the missing folder and there's an entry for every file that it couldn't copy. The error is real, since the missing folder isn't created.

After much frantic Googling, it turns out that Windows 10 patch KB4015217 is apparently the culprit. However, reading the changelog gives no clue about the problem.

KR is written in VB6 and hasn't been updated since 2009 because the developer, Karen Kenworthy, died in 2011 so it will never be fixed. Running it in any of the compatibility modes or as an administrator doesn't fix it, either. Neither does setting the security permissions to allow the Everyone group full access. It's just broken hard.

I guess a temporary workaround might be to run KR under W7 in a virtual machine and allow that VM access to the drives, but that's messy and I can't be bothered to set it up.

I've found people suggesting several backup programs to replace KR, such as ones at the links below, but I'd like to know what you use and recommend. I need a program that can handle backing up to a network location and crucially, must be capable of creating a mirror backup. That's a backup that looks identical to the source, so files and folders are created and deleted as necessary to make them identical. Note that exception rules must be possible too, such as missing out the pagefile, temp files etc.

http://www.techradar.com/news/the-best-free-pc-backup-software

https://www.2brightsparks.com/freeware/freeware-hub.html

https://allwaysync.com


*UPDATE 16SEP17*

There's a workaround for this problem here. Once the updated version is out, the problem should be properly fixed.


*UPDATE 15DEC17*

Problem is completely solved. See my update here.


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## eidairaman1 (May 28, 2017)

Doesn't Acronis make one buddy?


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## OneMoar (May 28, 2017)

Acronis


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## jboydgolfer (May 28, 2017)

I use discwizard from seagate (which afaik is an acronis re-skin) and it clones real well, & it works even if you dont have a seagate drive. Atleast it did every time i used it.


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## 95Viper (May 28, 2017)

Qubit,  I use Paragon's Backup and Recovery (Free Edition) and Acronis's backup software on my systems...  However, I prefer Paragon's.  Acronis's latest offering is just not to my liking.

If you are leaning towards free, here is a list of them and some reviewing info:  34 Free Backup Software Tools 


Edit:  Just wondering... did you try running it in some compatibility modes? Slim chance; however, you never know, until you try.


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## OneMoar (May 28, 2017)

running old backup software is just asking for problems  bad idea


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## Solaris17 (May 28, 2017)

Acronis

If you looking for something more draconian, or you dont think you need any kind of "system image" you can use something like robocopy


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## Frick (May 28, 2017)

I've used Synctoy alot in the past.


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## qubit (May 28, 2017)

Thanks for all the suggestions, people. Looks like I've got my homework cut out checking them all out! 



OneMoar said:


> running old backup software is just asking for problems  bad idea


Agreed, but it was working until now and it's an excellent utility, very quick and convenient to use, so I stayed with it.

Also, I didn't actually know the developer was dead until I started Googling for this problem last night. Been wondering why there were no updates for it. RIP Karen.

@95Viper Yes, I did and nothing helped. I think it must be using some deprecated API call for creating/deleting folders that Microsoft finally pulled support for. I'll bet that fixing the source code to use the correct version would be very simple to do.

@Solaris17 No, I don't need to make a system image, just data backup from one partition to another HDD or SSD. I've got separate backup jobs for separate partitions.


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## rtwjunkie (May 28, 2017)

EasUS ToDo Backup is one more for you to consider, and I use it. Even the free edition has alot of usefullness. The Home edition is reasonably priced as well. It meets every one your criteria.  It's also incredibly easy to use.

http://www.todo-backup.com/home/home-backup/features.htm


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## trparky (Jun 30, 2017)

I vote for Macrium Reflect.


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## qubit (Jul 3, 2017)

Finally got round to looking at an alternative backup program. Been limping along with my broken KR all this time. 

Turns out that SyncToy hasn't been updated since 2009, so I'd be investing in another unsupported program and could come unstuck at any time like I did with KR, so I'm giving it a miss. I might try it out later just to play with it though.

Currently testing https://allwaysync.com which looks really good. Very advanced, especially compared to what I had before and I like the configurable recovery features. It's free too, but I might just buy the Pro version to support the company and get the extra features. Gonna properly test it though before paying for it, however.

If anyone has any more suggestions for backup programs do let me know!


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 3, 2017)

If the free version is really good, buying the pro version just to support the company is good too, and very commendable.


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## qubit (Jul 3, 2017)

Thanks. Indeed, it's only $25.95 so there's really no excuse to not buy it.

It's also very intuitive as I feel quite familiar with it after only 30 minutes playing with it.

Before I press it into service though, I'm gonna make a second backup on another HDD and disconnect that HDD, just in case disaster strikes. I see it's also got a cloud backup option which I'm going to try out. Unfortunately I'm stuck on poxy ADSL with a 1Mb upload speed.

My network backup computer hasn't worked for months (hardware issue) so I really must see about either fixing it or replacing it. I need more than the one backup I've been using for some time now.


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## qubit (Jul 3, 2017)

SEE EDIT BELOW Ok, found something that I really don't like about Allway Sync, but it might not be a dealbreaker, I'll have to see: it uses product activation DRM which ties it to the hardware hash of the PC, like with Microsoft's version.

On top of this, it's not explained in the licence agreement whether this licence is transferrable to another computer and if so, how it's done and isn't even in the FAQ. Omitting this important information is sneeky and underhanded, so I don't like it.  I'm all for supporting the developer, but it puts me off when I see something like this.

Check it out for yourself:



> LICENSE ACTIVATION: Customer hereby acknowledges and accepts that the Allway Sync Pro activation process may be used to enforce provisions of this Agreement that allows the use of one Allway Sync Pro license only on one computer or removable device. Customer agrees to the activation process for Allway Sync Pro during which the manual entry of an activation code may be required. Developer may supply Customer with an activation code, which is binded to Customer's hardware Allway Sync is installed on. Customer agrees to provide Developer with a 64-bit hardware identifier calculated by Allway Sync installation when requested by Developer. Customer may send this hardware identifier to Developer by e-mail, submit via a web form on Developer's website or transmit in on-line activation process implemented by Allway Sync when it's available.



Above that paragraph it reads, "Customer who acquires a license for Pro version of Allway Sync is granted a nonexclusive license to install and run this software on a single computer only". This suggests that it's not transferrable and that's a really Bad Thing which puts me off buying it, or even using the free version, no matter how good it is. I might contact them to clarify this point.

https://allwaysync.com/license

https://allwaysync.com/support/faq

*EDIT:* Yes, it's transferrable. Part of the information is hidden under the buy option in the purchase FAQ and reads

"Can I transfer my license?

Yes, your license may be transferred if you change your PC (or the removable device correspondingly)."

What it doesn't say is how one goes about transferring it, but presumably one logs a support ticket. I've emailed them to clarify this.


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## Static~Charge (Jul 3, 2017)

Here are a few more worth checking out:

FreeFileSync

SyncBackFree

Zback

FBackup


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 3, 2017)

qubit said:


> SEE EDIT BELOW Ok, found something that I really don't like about Allway Sync, but it might not be a dealbreaker, I'll have to see: it uses product activation DRM which ties it to the hardware hash of the PC, like with Microsoft's version.
> 
> On top of this, it's not explained in the licence agreement whether this licence is transferrable to another computer and if so, how it's done and isn't even in the FAQ. Omitting this important information is sneeky and underhanded, so I don't like it.  I'm all for supporting the developer, but it puts me off when I see something like this.
> 
> ...


That is a deal breaker for me. When you have 2+ computers and want one utility to cover them all, this just doesnt work.


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## Swamp Monster (Jul 3, 2017)

Static~Charge said:


> Here are a few more worth checking out:
> 
> FreeFileSync



FreeFileSync works for me.


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## qubit (Jul 3, 2017)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> That is a deal breaker for me. When you have 2+ computers and want one utility to cover them all, this just doesnt work.


Agreed, it's pants. Frankly, a fixed version of the much more basic KR would have done me. The advanced features of this program are nice to have, but not mission critical for me. Something open source and free would likely be fine.

I'll look into FreeFileSync @Swamp Monster


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## RCoon (Jul 3, 2017)

Why not just use built in microsoft tools

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc733145(v=ws.11).aspx

Either that or I just use Teracopy. It doesn't shit the bed when something goes wrong.


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 3, 2017)

I think you might have completely missed my suggestion. It's understandable, as it came after the first several, then you went away and came back later. 




rtwjunkie said:


> EasUS ToDo Backup is one more for you to consider, and I use it. Even the free edition has alot of usefullness. The Home edition is reasonably priced as well. It meets every one your criteria.  It's also incredibly easy to use.
> 
> http://www.todo-backup.com/home/home-backup/features.htm


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## erixx (Jul 3, 2017)

I also like EasUS varied free tools. 

Howeversince a couple of years  I use Genie Timeline and have not found any issue. It's simple, nice and customizable. Cheap. And your files are copied "as is" so you can just pick a backup file and use it.


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## qubit (Jul 3, 2017)

@rtwjunkie I hadn't missed it as such, I just fancied trying Allway first. Note that this app has a limit of 40000 files per month for the free version and I have over 35000 files it has to scan through each time... Also, given this kind of licensing and product activation that I'm really not too keen on for the Pro version, I'm gonna look into using a different program, so I'll keep searching for now and will try your suggestion next. 

Thanks @RCoon I'll look into those as well. 

Ok, so I got a quick reply back for how to transfer the licence. This really should be in the FAQ. It's unlikely to matter to me given what I've said above though.


> Hi
> 
> Thank you for contacting us.
> 
> ...


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 3, 2017)

qubit said:


> @rtwjunkie I hadn't missed it as such, I just fancied trying Allway first. Note that this app has a limit of 40000 files per month for the free version and I have over 35000 files it has to scan through each time... Also, given this kind of licensing and product activation that I'm really not too keen on for the Pro version, I'm gonna look into using a different program, so I'll keep searching for now and will try your suggestion next.
> 
> Thanks @RCoon I'll look into those as well.
> 
> Ok, so I got a quick reply back for how to transfer the licence. This really should be in the FAQ. It's unlikely to matter to me given what I've said above though.


That's pretty good they responded so quickly to your inquiry!


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## newtekie1 (Jul 3, 2017)

Static~Charge said:


> ...
> FBackup



I was just going to suggest FBackup. I use it a lot and love it.

I also use the pay version , Backup4All, for backing up to off-site destinations.  It does use license DRM, but de-activation and transferring is really easy.  You can do it right on the account page of their website.  I have a few customers that I've set up free FTP servers at their homes using Filezilla, and then use the very cheap Backup4All to backup their data from their work PC over the internet to their home.  Sort of a much cheaper alternative to those cloud backup services like Carbonite. And if something goes bad and we have to restore from the off site backup, we just drive over to their house and grab what we need directly.  No need to wait for slow recover by downloading.

But @qubit, if all you need is a basic program FBackup should do what you need.  It can do a Mirror backup that just copies the files and drops them at the destination.  But it can also do Zipped backups, where it compresses the files into a zip file.  It can back up *to* network drives and locations, but it can not backup to from network drives or locations. You have to buy Backup4All if you want to backup from network drives/locations.  The network locations don't have to be mapped drives either.  You can actually browse the network or just type in the network path and the program will use that.


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## qubit (Aug 29, 2017)

Hey check this out. Somebody's gonna update Karen's Replicator to work with the latest version of Windows 10! There's a small catch though in that the updated version isn't gonna be free as they want $15.55 for a license. I think it's reasonable though and it's pretty cheap so I'll buy it.

This Facebook post explains it:

https://www.facebook.com/KarensPowerTools/posts/1805626836120491



> Hi Joe,
> Am I correctly understanding that you may be re-compiling the code for Karen's Replicator for Windows 10 64BIT?
> 
> I have delightfully {along with thousands of others, I am certain} used this for many years.
> ...



Here's what you get:

https://www.karenware.com/licenseme


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## OneMoar (Aug 29, 2017)

dude that site and the software on it look like they are from 2005
Please no just no ...


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## qubit (Aug 29, 2017)

OneMoar said:


> dude that site and the software on it look like they are from 2005
> Please no just no ...


Well, the site hasn't been updated since 2009...

The program has been supremely reliable for me since I started using it in 2009 until W10 broke it, so I don't think an out of date style should put anyone off from using it.


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## Static~Charge (Aug 29, 2017)

OneMoar said:


> dude that site and the software on it look like they are from 2005
> Please no just no ...



7-Zip looks distinctly Windows 98-ish, but that doesn't mean the program isn't worth using. And after a quick facelift from the 7-Zip Theme Manager, it looks decent, too.

I'm more of a "substance over style" person.


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## Crampon (Sep 15, 2017)

If the OP is still looking for a resolution to the issue with Karen's Replicator, it is fully explained on the Facebook page linked above....

Like you, I've used Karen's Replicator for years and had been hoping for a fix since the Windows Creator update screwed it up.

I had all but given up and was about to 'bite the bullet' and install a replacement, but there is an incredibly simple fix.... simply use a UNC direct address (prefix your existing folder paths with '\\?\'
I've just tested it and Karen's Replicator now works perfectly!

Hope that helps.


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## qubit (Sep 15, 2017)

Crampon said:


> If the OP is still looking for a resolution to the issue with Karen's Replicator, it is fully explained on the Facebook page linked above....
> 
> Like you, I've used Karen's Replicator for years and had been hoping for a fix since the Windows Creator update screwed it up.
> 
> ...


Yes, it is a good program, isn't it? I've actually paid the $15 for the fixed version when that comes out. Even if it doesn't, I see it as a donation for all those years of great service anyway.

I'm a bit confused about that UNC path. Do you mean to turn file sharing on and then just use a network path?

My source and destination paths as they stand are very simple:

Source: D:\

Destination: Y:\

Or in other words, everything from one partition is mirrored to another partition.
Welcome to TPU!


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 16, 2017)

Pretty sure you can set Task Scheduler with a xcopy command (using /D:date argument) to do exactly that.

My backup is a batch which runs format -> xcopy.  Drive gets a lot of writes this way but there's no chance of problems without me knowing about it.


That said, I wrote a program over a year ago to literally replace Karen's Replicator in a corporate/networked environment.  Problem is, it was for a company, which means I don't own it, which means I can't make it available.


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## qubit (Sep 16, 2017)

Does xcopy allow you to make a mirror backup though?


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 16, 2017)

...clearly didn't click the link...


			
				ComputerHope said:
			
		

> Xcopy is a powerful version of the copy command with additional features; has the capability of moving files, directories, and even whole drives from one location to another.


/D


			
				ComputerHope said:
			
		

> Copies files changed on or after the specified date. If no date is given, copies only those files whose source time is newer than the destination time.


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## qubit (Sep 16, 2017)

Ok cool.



Crampon said:


> I had all but given up and was about to 'bite the bullet' and install a replacement, but there is an incredibly simple fix.... simply use a UNC direct address (prefix your existing folder paths with '\\?\'
> I've just tested it and Karen's Replicator now works perfectly!


Ok, I see that FB page was updated since I linked to it, with the fix, but I hadn't visited it since. I get what you're saying now - just tried it and it indeed works.  Nice one.


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## newtekie1 (Sep 16, 2017)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Pretty sure you can set Task Scheduler with a xcopy command (using /D:date argument) to do exactly that



I prefer Robocopy. Heck, I wish someone would make a front-end gui to create and run Robocopy scripts. It would be nice if it would schedule the scripts too!

Robocopy with the /MIR command will mirror the source.


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## qubit (Dec 15, 2017)

The problem is fixed. Turns out to be a problem that Microsoft introduced when they changed permissions on folders. The Windows 10 Fall Creators update has now reversed this change, so Karen's Replicator now works properly again.

I've now removed the workaround and confirmed that it works fine, so will continue using it. Just wanna say that while there are more sophisticated backup programs out there, I like this one because it's solid, reliable, easy to use and free, so I prefer to stay with it if possible. My backup needs are pretty basic, so I can do without the more advanced features.

And finally, my 4TB WD Green is beginning to fail (increasing weak sector count) and has lost 1.5TB of data today on one partition, but no biggie, it was all my Steam games, which I'll just redownload over the next 6 weeks or so (ADSL connection, unlimited data). Other partitions have my priceless data though, so I'll be replacing this drive asap and returning it for warranty.


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