# HD3870 vs 8800GT



## Snipe343 (Dec 27, 2007)

Im still having a hard time picking between these two cards, what is different about ati and nvidia also


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## KainXS (Dec 27, 2007)

the 8800GT is faster but the 3870 is cheper

thats it


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## Disparia (Dec 27, 2007)

AMD is all that is good in the world while nVidia grinds the bones of bunnies to make their substrate 

If you're specs are current, I see you have an 8600GT - either of these cards will be a big upgrades. I've seen HD3870 down in the $240 range, even less when on sale or with rebate. Though the faster 8800GT isn't far behind in pricing.


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## KainXS (Dec 27, 2007)

ATI is backed by AMD which produces CPU's the X2 line for example,
Nvidia produices performance motherboards and graphics cards


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## ShadowFold (Dec 27, 2007)

The 3870 is quieter, more power efficiant, and not as hot. Tho its just a little bit slower. Also ATi has some amazing image quality and HDMI suport. I hooked my HD 3850 up to my dads HDMI Ready tv and it was an amazing experiance.


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## FatForester (Dec 27, 2007)

Yea, go for whichever one is better in your budget. Either GPU will be bottlenecked by your processor, so for you I'd say grab the 3870. I've always used ATI chips, but this last time I went for a 8800GT. I kinda wish I went for the 3870, but you really can't go wrong. If you're wanting to do hook up your computer to a TV and watch HD stuff, then go for the 3870. If you're primarily here to game, then shoot for the 8800GT.


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## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

8800GT....10% more price.....20% more performance.


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## Duxx (Dec 27, 2007)

Everything u need to know is in the posts above this.  Nothing else to be said .

I just got 8800gt for christmas. /cheers!


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

KainXS said:


> the 8800GT is faster but the 3870 is cheper
> 
> thats it



nope 3870s faster.


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## FatForester (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> nope 3870s faster.



I hope you were joking, if not...


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

FatForester said:


> I hope you were joking, if not...



i own a 8800 GT the 3870 is more powerful especially when ati get's rid of its drivers issues.


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## snapclick (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> i own a 8800 GT the 3870 is more powerful especially when ati get's rid of its drivers issues.






no.


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## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

Don't decide performances based on future drivers....things hat don't exist ATM. The 8800 GT 512M is the fastest midrange card. Period.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

snapclick said:


> no.



Yes, the 3870 has more shader output than even 8800 ultra it's on paper more powerful only being held back by it's buggy drivers once sorta out will own even 8800 ultra.

just like x1800xt 512 mb was getting beat by 7800 gtx 512 mb at first because of it's buggy drivers and x1800xt512 mb eventually outperformed it.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

btarunr said:


> Don't decide performances based on future drivers....things hat don't exist ATM. The 8800 GT 512M is the fastest midrange card. Period.



if this is the fastest then performance sucks period.


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## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

That's premium BS. ATI has a shader architecture completely different from NVidia's. the H3870 has 320 "stream processors" while the 8800GT has 112 "Unified shaders" a Unified shader handles tougher math operations than a stream processor, it takes 16 madd mull operations/cc.

Absolutely nothing can prove HD3870's superiority over 8800 GT. Stop fencing, do your research first.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

btarunr said:


> That's premium BS. ATI has a shader architecture completely different from NVidia's. the H3870 has 320 "stream processors" while the 8800GT has 112 "Unified shaders" a Unified shader handles tougher math operations than a stream processor, it takes 16 madd mull operations/cc.




http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=544&card2=547

specs prove 3870 is more powerful than the 8800 GT only thing 8800 gt wins in is texture fill rate.


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## FatForester (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> Yes, the 3870 has more shader output than even 8800 ultra it's on paper more powerful only being held back by it's buggy drivers once sorta out will own even 8800 ultra.
> 
> just like x1800xt 512 mb was getting beat by 7800 gtx 512 mb at first because of it's buggy drivers and x1800xt512 mb eventually outperformed it.



You can't compare two cards that have a completely different architecture, and because one has more shaders, or one has a higher GPU clock, that it is "better". The 3870 is based off the same core architecture of the 2900XT, so the drivers don't have the miraculous growing room you're talking about. Saying a card is better because something "might" happen is just pure speculation.


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## Steevo (Dec 27, 2007)

I am getting a 3870 512, but I realise that the 8800GT is a higher performing card.



But I get true HDMI with audio, not a bastardised version using my sound cards output, and hopefully F@H will be supported soon on these cards.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

shame 3870 doesnt have 32 tmus like 8800 gt and if it had that shader performance goddamn best card ever, but even www.bit-tech.com said 3870 should be beating 8800 gt but drivers holding it back the way they use anti aliasing currently makes big performance hits, plus nvidia has had 6 more months to optimize drivers for the g80 aka g92 architecture.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

FatForester said:


> You can't compare two cards that have a completely different architecture, and because one has more shaders, or one has a higher GPU clock, that it is "better". The 3870 is based off the same core architecture of the 2900XT, so the drivers don't have the miraculous growing room you're talking about. Saying a card is better because something "might" happen is just pure speculation.



x1800xt went from 30 fps in doom3 ultra quality 1600x1200 x4 aa x16 af 30 fps then 8 months down the road new drivers it was hitting 72 fps.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

ati card's always take years to squeeze out real power, while nvidia never improve framerates via drivers, even anandtech had article acouple years ago about it.


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## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=544&card2=547
> 
> specs prove 3870 is more powerful than the 8800 GT only thing 8800 gt wins in is texture fill rate.



Don't talk specs. Talk real world. Live real world. Look at just how many games, benchmarks the 8800 GT outperforms. By the time ATI and its pony-express engineers roll out a magical driver the industry will have moved a generation ahead.


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## Silverel (Dec 27, 2007)

How about this...

Which color do you like better?

Red or Green?

imo, get an OC'd 3850 for around 170$, saving 50-80$ over the big boys, and still being a BIG step up from what you have.


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## FatForester (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> x1800xt went from 30 fps in doom3 ultra quality 1600x1200 x4 aa x16 af 30 fps then 8 months down the road new drivers it was hitting 72 fps.



I know exactly what you're talking about with the X1800XT. This is completely different than that, since the 3870 is largely based off the R600, which has been out since May. There's been a die shrink with some added functionality, but it's basically an R600. Drivers can get better, but on an architecture that's had 7 months to mature, the headroom is quite limited.



bigmacks433 said:


> ati card's always take years to squeeze out real power, while nvidia never improve framerates via drivers, even anandtech had article acouple years ago about it.



Yes, that's generally true, but in this case that doesn't matter. Just because ATI can increase performance with drivers, doesn't mean nvidia can't. Right now, at this given time, the 8800GT is the better performer.


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## Rurouni Strife (Dec 27, 2007)

Mr. bigmacks433,
ATI's cards will probably never catch an 8800GT/GTX.  It's all in the way the shader cores are designed.  In the maybe 1 or 2 games where 2900/3800 series cards are equal/better than the 8800 cards, the games take full advantage of ATI's shader archetichure.  ATI cards have a max Therotical Unified Shader amount of 320, mininum of 64.  Thats right, where games dont take full advantage of ATI's archetichure, they use 64 shaders.  Thats why games sometimes perform so much worse on these new ATI cards.

To OP:
Get whatever you can afford.  I nabbed a 3850 and love it, I personally love ATI and love supporting an underdog for competition and all.  I can't really suggest a card either way, both are great options.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

just for the record my 7800 gtx 256 mb oc bfgtech performs the same in 2007 as it did in 2005 when i first bought it, while the x1800xt each driver actually improved framerates and eventually owned that and 512 mb benchmarks.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

Rurouni Strife said:


> Mr. bigmacks433,
> ATI's cards will probably never catch an 8800GT/GTX.  It's all in the way the shader cores are designed.  In the maybe 1 or 2 games where 2900/3800 series cards are equal/better than the 8800 cards, the games take full advantage of ATI's shader archetichure.  ATI cards have a max Therotical Unified Shader amount of 320, mininum of 64.  Thats right, where games dont take full advantage of ATI's archetichure, they use 64 shaders.  Thats why games sometimes perform so much worse on these new ATI cards.
> 
> To OP:
> Get whatever you can afford.  I nabbed a 3850 and love it, I personally love ATI and love supporting an underdog for competition and all.  I can't really suggest a card either way, both are great options.




Developers arent optimizing their games as much for ati  as nvidia .

the reason 3870 performance is bad now because the way they implemented anti aliasing they can write another way to do aa on r600/680 cores in the drivers.

it's not hardware based anti aliasing reason because of performance hits, there's gotta be a way to implement hardware based aa.


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## FatForester (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> just for the record my 7800 gtx 256 mb oc bfgtech performs the same in 2007 as it did in 2005 when i first bought it, while the x1800xt each driver actually improved framerates and eventually owned that and 512 mb benchmarks.



Ok? Both the 7800 and the X1800 had hardware revisions with the 1900 / 1950 and 7900 / 7950. Anyways, in the case of the X1800XT, it was a brand new architecture, so of course there will be optimizations. That doesn't apply to your 3870 argument.

Anyways, why do you have such a big problem with nvidia having great performance from the get-go? I would rather have great performance consistently, than having to wait months and months for "magic drivers" that should have been there in the first place.

EDIT: bigmacks, you don't have to double and triple post. There's an edit button for a reason!

As far as your AA argument, as I said, this architecture has been out for 7 months, are you really going to bank on AMD fixing that when they have much bigger problems to be worrying about?


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

FatForester said:


> Ok? Both the 7800 and the X1800 had hardware revisions with the 1900 / 1950 and 7900 / 7950. Anyways, in the case of the X1800XT, it was a brand new architecture, so of course there will be optimizations. That doesn't apply to your 3870 argument.
> 
> Anyways, why do you have such a big problem with nvidia having great performance from the get-go? I would rather have great performance consistently, than having to wait months and months for "magic drivers" that should have been there in the first place.



the x1800xt outperformed the 7900 gtx 512 mb also.

the reason nvidia is winning now in benchmarks because ati isnt running hardware based anti aliasing on the r600 cores man so the performance hit is greater doing it in software, there's gotta be a way to do hw based aa on r600 cores when they do peace nvidia.


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## jpierce55 (Dec 27, 2007)

Snipe343 said:


> Im still having a hard time picking between these two cards, what is different about ati and nvidia also



At the price of the following 8800gt it is better:
http://www.ncixus.com/products/27328/88YFF6HUFEXX/Galaxy Technology/

The 3870 is great, but not when the 8800gt is near the price:
http://www.ncixus.com/products/26983/3870PE4512SB/Diamond/
The thing is prices fluctuate daily.


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## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

You guys, break up. we're getting into an infinite loop with all this. As on December 2007, the 8800 GT is better. When ATI does make the HD3870 better, bigmacks433 can post on that. When that happens, we'll be dealing with GeForce 10K series and the Radeon HD4000 whatever.


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## largon (Dec 27, 2007)

*bigmacks433*,
This matter is _not_ as simple as "320 > 112".

Only 64 out of 320 of the shaders on R600/RV670 complex enough to execute as complex instructions as those 112 on G92GT. The rest are smaller and simpler and can only calculate comparably simple operations. 





bigmacks433 said:


> the reason nvidia is winning now in benchmarks because ati isnt running hardware based anti aliasing on the r600 cores man so the performance hit is greater doing it in software, there's gotta be a way to do hw based aa on r600 cores when they do peace nvidia.


Uh...
R600/RV670 does AA in _shaders_ (consequently consuming shading resources thus lowering performance) unlike G80/G92 which uses _ROP_s for it.


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## FatForester (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> the x1800xt outperformed the 7900 gtx 512 mb also.
> 
> the reason nvidia is winning now in benchmarks because ati isnt running hardware based anti aliasing on the r600 cores man so the performance hit is greater doing it in software, there's gotta be a way to do hw based aa on r600 cores when they do peace nvidia.



Ok, this argument is out of the scope of this thread. If you want to continue this, send me a PM or something. Otherwise, it's just plain off-topic.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> ati card's always take years to squeeze out real power, while nvidia never improve framerates via drivers, even anandtech had article acouple years ago about it.




a couple years ago? like when the 6600 was king shit with its mad craz 12 pipelines

that and i dont understand your argument

1. the days of the 9250 and 5500 etc were the days to compair pipes and clockrates
2. thays what your doing
3. thats bad logic 
BECAUSE

1. now we have totally drastically diff architectures
2.games arent necassarily optimized for clockes anymore or even shaders that much
3.because their optimized for architectures and adjusting to the cards gpu

FE: 3xx>112 shaders is total BS

because stream processors can only handle so many types opf proccessing wether it be vertex texture shader calculations etc.......thats were the logic is flawed

because games like shaders and pipes more than clocks these days......

FE: your logic is flawed because....unified shaders no matter if their are lik 150 less are better than 320 of only 1 spacific type...

FE if stream processors only like vertex calculations and UT3 likes geom calculations then your mad sweet 320 stream processors are rendered useless because they just sit their talking and generating heat because they have nothing better to do than draw giga watts...while on the other hand unified shaders adapt to the games demand and tell the vertex shaders to start doing geometry....no wasted work UT3 and myself are happy.

o and...





> while nvidia never improve framerates via drivers



well than how come when nvidia updarted its drivers frames improved in games like crysis and UT3?

their was an article on TPU about it....more recent than a couple years ago.....with graphs.....and user input to say if it worked or not....


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

largon said:


> *bigmacks433*,
> This matter is _not_ as simple as "320 > 112".
> 
> Only 64 out of 320 of the shaders on R600/RV670 complex enough to execute as complex instructions as those 112 on G92GT. The rest are smaller and simpler and can only calculate comparably simple operations. Uh...
> R600/RV670 does AA in _shaders_ (consequently consuming shading resources thus lowering performance) unlike G80/G92 which uses _ROP_s for it.



http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=544&card2=547

the r600/r680 both do more shader operations/second than g80.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

Solaris17 said:


> a couple years ago? like when the 6600 was king shit with its mad craz 12 pipelines



What would you rather have performance that stay's stagnant or improves over time?


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## FatForester (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=544&card2=547
> 
> the r600/r680 both do more shader operations/second than g80.



Seriously, have you read ANYTHING we've all said?


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

FatForester said:


> Seriously, have you read ANYTHING we've all said?



The dude is incorrect r600 does more shader operations/second and using shaders to do anti aliasing is the reason there's a bigger performance hit is larger than nvidia  once they use write another way  will improve framerates


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

FatForester said:


> Seriously, have you read ANYTHING we've all said?



drivers make or break a card.


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## FatForester (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> The dude is incorrect r600 does more shader operations/second and using shaders to do anti aliasing is the reason there's a bigger performance hit is larger than nvidia  once they use write another way  will improve framerates



Tech specs aren't everything. A P4 running at 3ghz doesn't mean it's faster than a X6800 at 2.93ghz. If you read his post, he explains the main differences in the shader operations of the R600 and G92. Also, enough already with the silly anti aliasing argument!! It doesn't matter!

EDIT: I'm going for lunch. Someone else take over


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## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

^That says it all. The HD3870 is an inferior product due to its drivers....

applying bigmacks433's brilliant logic, NVidia with its allegedly bad drivers (not improving over the years) is better than ATI (that makes bad drivers for good cards and flunks the product on the whole)


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## largon (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=544&card2=547
> 
> the r600/r680 both do more shader operations/second than g80.


Sure, the point is what does "shader operation" mean? Absolutely nothing. "Shader operation" on R600/RV670 ≠ "shader operation" on G80/G92. 

R600/RV670 does 64 _complex_ "shader operations", and some 256 _simple_ "shader operations". 
G80/G92 does 112 _complex_ "shader operations", but no _simple_ "shader operations" at all. 

Q: Which does more work / clk?
A: Depends. On the used datasets (= application). _Obviously_, games mainly use complex "shader operations" as G80/G92 perform better / clk.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 27, 2007)

im just going to post this again if someone missed it




bigmacks433 said:


> ati card's always take years to squeeze out real power, while nvidia never improve framerates via drivers, even anandtech had article acouple years ago about it.




a couple years ago? like when the 6600 was king shit with its mad craz 12 pipelines

that and i dont understand your argument

1. the days of the 9250 and 5500 etc were the days to compair pipes and clockrates
2. thays what your doing
3. thats bad logic 
BECAUSE

1. now we have totally drastically diff architectures
2.games arent necassarily optimized for clockes anymore or even shaders that much
3.because their optimized for architectures and adjusting to the cards gpu

FE: 3xx>112 shaders is total BS

because stream processors can only handle so many types opf proccessing wether it be vertex texture shader calculations etc.......thats were the logic is flawed

because games like shaders and pipes more than clocks these days......

FE: your logic is flawed because....unified shaders no matter if their are lik 150 less are better than 320 of only 1 spacific type...

FE if stream processors only like vertex calculations and UT3 likes geom calculations then your mad sweet 320 stream processors are rendered useless because they just sit their talking and generating heat because they have nothing better to do than draw giga watts...while on the other hand unified shaders adapt to the games demand and tell the vertex shaders to start doing geometry....no wasted work UT3 and myself are happy.

o and...





> while nvidia never improve framerates via drivers



well than how come when nvidia updarted its drivers frames improved in games like crysis and UT3?

their was an article on TPU about it....more recent than a couple years ago.....with graphs.....and user input to say if it worked or not....


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

3870 

320 shader processors

16 tmus

8800 ultra 128

32 tmus.


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## wabbitslayer (Dec 27, 2007)

Silverel said:


> How about this...
> 
> Which color do you like better?
> 
> Red or Green?



agreed. 

get whichever one gives you the warm fuzzies and be done w/ it.  What's the use in worrying about whether or not the one you didn't get might have gotten you a few frames faster or few hundred more in 3dmark than the one you picked?


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

Solaris17 said:


> im just going to post this again if someone missed it
> 
> 
> 
> ...



acouple years ago was june 2005 when i first bought my 7800 gtx 256 mb.


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## largon (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> 3870
> 
> 320 shader processors
> 
> ...


That's EXACTLY like claiming "Pentium D @ 3.8GHz is faster in general than Core 2 Duo @ 2.4GHz". 
There's more in play here than the simple _numeral amounts_ of things.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 27, 2007)

largon said:


> That's EXACTLY like claiming "Pentium D @ 3.8GHz is faster in general than Core 2 Duo @ 2.4GHz".
> There's more in play here than the simple _numeral amounts_ of things.





like programming
scaling
effeciency in architectual design


for example a P4 at 4/5 ghz could TRY to touch my processor it wouldnt succed.


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## Snipe343 (Dec 27, 2007)

which one would play crysis better?


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## FatForester (Dec 27, 2007)

Snipe343 said:


> which one would play crysis better?



The 8800GT.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 27, 2007)

well seeing as crysis utiliozes a physics engine with complicated scenery and high amounts of shadows and color detail id say the 8800GT because and simply because of a unified shader design so if your in the moment and theirs alot of fireing and building falling and cars blowing up the core will adjust to calculate physics processes then go back if your running through the woods and need lots of geometry and/or shading power....


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## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

^The GPU doesn't calculate physics in Crysis. The CryEngine 2 uses the CPU to do that. The CPU does the math and tells the GPU what to throw where and the GPU aye ayes it and uses geometry/pixel/vertex shading.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

largon said:


> That's EXACTLY like claiming "Pentium D @ 3.8GHz is faster in general than Core 2 Duo @ 2.4GHz".
> There's more in play here than the simple _numeral amounts_ of things.



3870 will eventually pull higher fps than 8800 gt/gts/gtx/ultra once better drivers get out.

3870 dx10.1 and px4.1 lol 8800's only dx10/4.0.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 27, 2007)

good call but i take it you understood what i ment?


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## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

completely. that's what I've been trying to fart all the time 320 not > 128.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

btarunr said:


> completely. that's what I've been trying to fart all the time 320 not > 128.



Yes, 320 >>>128

32 tmus>16 tmus

3870 has higher shader operations/second

8800 ultra has higher texture fill rate .


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## Snipe343 (Dec 27, 2007)

so would my cpu bottleneck the 8800gt?


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

Snipe343 said:


> so would my cpu bottleneck the 8800gt?



the 8800 GT is much too weak to  be bottlenecked.

it cant even handle 1792x1344 x2 aa without dropping into 20s.


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## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> Yes, 320 >>>128
> 
> 32 tmus>16 tmus
> 
> ...



But that doesn't even remotely make HD3870 come even close to 8800 Ultra !ROFLMAO!


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## FatForester (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> the 8800 GT is much too weak to  be bottlenecked.
> 
> it cant even handle 1792x1344 x2 aa without dropping into 20s.



Stop. Talking.



Snipe343 said:


> so would my cpu bottleneck the 8800gt?



Your 4000 X2 will bottleneck the 8800GT, but it'll also bottleneck the 3870. If you're going to be upgrading in the near future, then go with the 8800GT to help future-proof yourself. Both Microsoft and AMD have said that DX10.1 isn't that big of a deal, and Microsoft wants to move to a system where they don't give out little DirectX updates, but entire revisions, like DX11, DX12, instead of the DX9.0a, b, c business.


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## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

@bigmacks
Don't make the mistake of comparing a HD3870 to an 8800 Ultra, the Ultra eats three HD3870's for snack.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

FatForester said:


> Stop. Talking.
> 
> Your 4000 X2 will bottleneck the 8800GT, but it'll also bottleneck the 3870. If you're going to be upgrading in the near future, then go with the 8800GT to help future-proof yourself. Both Microsoft and AMD have said that DX10.1 isn't that big of a deal, and Microsoft wants to move to a system where they don't give out little DirectX updates, but entire revisions, like DX11, DX12, instead of the DX9.0a, b, c business.



seriously i own a bfgtech 8800 gt 512 mb oc 625/1800.

the card's a piece of shit no it's not bottlenecked.

resolutions like 1792x1344 with x4 aa x16 af is gpu limited not cpu limited a 2.0 ghz a64 would pull about same fps at 2.8 ghz about 5 fps difference at the most.

not to mention my 8800 GT cant even run those settings in ut3 without dropping into the 20's it's a piece of shit do not buy a 8800 GT get a 3870 it eats the 8800 gt alive.


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## Snipe343 (Dec 27, 2007)

with the bottlenecking issue theres a bit of a problem, i cant update my motherboard bios so i think a cpu upgrade is out of the question ,its bios is from march 06 or something like that


ATI fanboy maybe ?? XD^^


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

FatForester said:


> I know exactly what you're talking about with the X1800XT. This is completely different than that, since the 3870 is largely based off the R600, which has been out since May. There's been a die shrink with some added functionality, but it's basically an R600. Drivers can get better, but on an architecture that's had 7 months to mature, the headroom is quite limited.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that's generally true, but in this case that doesn't matter. Just because ATI can increase performance with drivers, doesn't mean nvidia can't. Right now, at this given time, the 8800GT is the better performer.



r600 is a new architecture just like the r520 was it takes longer for ati to fully harness the power than nvidia cards do and ati always ends up being performance king.


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## cooler (Dec 27, 2007)

here  link where hd3780 beat 8800 ultra at 8xaa

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/2007/test_ati_radeon_hd_3870_rv670/13/

ati lost at 4xaa but win at 8xaa 
this prove ati had bad driver


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## largon (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> 3870 will eventually pull higher fps than 8800 gt/gts/gtx/ultra once better drivers get out.
> 
> 3870 dx10.1 and px4.1 lol 8800's only dx10/4.0.


Unfortunately, it's not _all_ about drivers... 

The problem is most "complex shader operations" _can not_ be chopped into small enough bits for the simple shaders to execute them. R600/RV670 can beat G80/G92 only in application whose (1.) graphics engine emphasizes small instructions, (2.) is optimized for R6_0 GPUs' VLIW (very long instruction words) architecture and (3.) runs under DirectX heavily optimized for VLIW.


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## largon (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> r600 is a new architecture just like the r520 was it takes longer for ati to fully harness the power than nvidia cards do and *ati always ends up being performance king*.


Ah sorry. 
I was under the impression we were dealing with facts here, not fanboyism.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> 3870 will eventually pull higher fps than 8800 gt/gts/gtx/ultra once better drivers get out.
> 
> 3870 dx10.1 and px4.1 lol 8800's only dx10/4.0.




LOL

here....Direct quote from Maximum PC



> DirectX 10.1 and shader model 4.1 Microsoft of course insists these updates dont render these cards obsolete(10 and 4.0) "the updated API" said microsofts Sam Glassenberg lead DX10.1 programmer "provides full support for all excisting direct3D hardware that supports the extended featureset. No harware support has been removed in DX10.1 "the new API renders *Mandatory* several features that were *previously optional* Complient GPU's must now support at least 4xAA and 32 bit floating point filtering for instance



so seeing as the 8800GT supported these to begin with than 10.1 and 4.1 arent upgrades at all if you think of it it might be a downgrade because if you do decide to use 4xAA all the time your going to drop FPS anyway.....10.1 and 4.1 arent big upgrades at all they simply tell you or let you know if your card supports these and the 8800GT already did but it came out b4 10.1 and 4.1 so the card was not branded as supporting it...because we cant support software that doesnt exsist at launch now can we?


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

largon said:


> Unfortunately, it's not _all_ about drivers...
> 
> The problem is most "complex shader operations" _can not_ be chopped into small enough bits for the simple shaders to execute them. R600/RV670 can beat G80/G92 only in application whose (1.) graphics engine emphasizes small instructions, (2.) is optimized for R6_0 GPUs' VLIW (very long instruction words) architecture and (3.) runs under DirectX heavily optimized for VLIW.



you understand the r600 can process more complex shaders/faster than 8800 ultra right?


----------



## largon (Dec 27, 2007)

Uh... No it can't.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

Solaris17 said:


> LOL
> 
> here....Direct quote from Maximum PC
> 
> ...




global illumination is a big deal .

nvidia is trying to make it not because there's cards dont support it .


1792x1344 is actually higher resolution than 1920x1200 count the pixels.

but yea the 8800 gt cannot handle unreal tournament 3 1792x1344 x4 aa x16 af smoothly.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

largon said:


> Uh... No it can't.



yes, it's shader operation/second is higher

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=544&card2=547

8800 ultra is capable of 

Shader Operations: 168000 Operations/sec 

2900xt/3870 is capable of 

Shader Operations: 248000 Operations/sec 


can you be anymore stupid>?


r600>g80


----------



## FatForester (Dec 27, 2007)

Snipe343 said:


> with the bottlenecking issue theres a bit of a problem, i cant update my motherboard bios so i think a cpu upgrade is out of the question ,its bios is from march 06 or something like that
> 
> 
> ATI fanboy maybe ?? XD^^



ASUS's site is pretty slow, but here you go: http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=M2N-E SLI
There's BIOS updates up to 11/21/2007, so if you feel the need to upgrade, you can go for it! Either overclocking or going with a 5000+ BE will definitely give you a boost in Crysis. Of course, no matter what you do, Crysis will eat your system alive.

 Yes, enormous amounts of fanboyism!


----------



## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

Solaris, close this thread. we've had 'nuff of this HD3870 > 8800 GT BS. bigmacks is splashing

Bottomline 1792x1344 is NOT a resolution for mainstream users. The 8800 GT is a mainstream card and it serves its purpose far better than the 3870.
@bigmacks
The HD3870 is NOT (naught) better than the 8800GT, whichever point you shoot at


----------



## Solaris17 (Dec 27, 2007)

i do bealive i just stated that the 8800GT did that and if anyone here has a r3870 id like you to boot ut3 and set it at these resolutions with that abount of AA and AF and id like you to post back if it crawls or not.


----------



## largon (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> yes, it's shader operation/second is higher
> 
> http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=544&card2=547
> 
> ...


LOL!!! 
Would you by any chance suffer from amnesia? 
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=585017&postcount=43

WTFWJD!


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

largon said:


> LOL!!!
> Would you by any chace suffer from amnesia?



you dont know what you are talking about

the r600 is capable of pixel shading faster than the g80/8800 ultra.

dont matter how architecture is set up the total output is greater than 8800 ultras.


----------



## largon (Dec 27, 2007)

*bigmacks433*
Yeah and Pentium D is faster than Core 2 Duo because it runs at higher freq? 

No really, it's impossible to discuss about this with you as you just spam your useless gpureview link, blabber about the insignificant "shader operations", *ignore* valid counter-arguments, and insult people...


----------



## FatForester (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> yes, it's shader operation/second is higher
> 
> http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=544&card2=547
> 
> ...



OK. If you don't stop posting a link to gpureview, I will take it and shove it up your 
Don't you realize that comparing the tech specs of the 3870 and 8800GT means NOTHING?


----------



## Solaris17 (Dec 27, 2007)

GeForce 8800 GT
Codename: G92 
Process technology: 65 nm 
754 million transistors (more than in the G80) 
Unified architecture with an array of common processors for streaming processing of vertices and pixels, as well as other data 
Hardware support for DirectX 10, including Shader Model 4.0, geometry generation, and stream output 
256-bit memory bus, four independent 64-bit controllers 
Core clock: 600 MHz (GeForce 8800 GT) 
ALUs operate at more than a doubled frequency (1.5 GHz for the GeForce 8800 GT) 
112 (in the GeForce 8800 GT, probably 128 in total) scalar floating-point ALUs (integer and floating-point formats, *FP32 support within the IEEE 754 standard, MAD+MUL without penalties*) 
56 (64) texture units *supporting FP16 and FP32 components in textures *
56 (64) bilinear filtering units (as in the G84 and G86, no free trilinear filtering and more efficient anisotropic filtering) 
Dynamic branches in pixel and vertex shaders 
4 (6) wide ROPs (16 pixels) *supporting antialiasing with up to 16 samples per pixel*, including FP16/FP32 frame buffer formats. Each unit consists of an array of flexibly configurable ALUs and is responsible for Z generation and comparison, MSAA, blending. Peak performance of the entire subsystem is up to 64 MSAA samples (+ 64 Z) per cycle, 128 samples per cycle in Z only mode 
8 multiple render targets (MRT) 
All interfaces are integrated in the GPU (2 x RAMDAC, 2 x Dual DVI, HDMI, HDTV), unlike the external NVIO chip in the GeForce 8800 



thinking that translates to 10.1 and 4.1...


----------



## anticlutch (Dec 27, 2007)

Might be a bit late but.. ATi. After using nVidia with their crappy drivers and such, I'll never buy from them ever again. I'd much rather go with the 3870 and save a few bucks, take a small performance hit, and gain much better image quality and drivers that are updated on a regular basis (unlike nVidia which seems to release their drivers at a whim).


----------



## Solaris17 (Dec 27, 2007)

this thread can continue its an intresting dicussion but the flaming name calling etc cant happen or get out of hand kk?


----------



## Snipe343 (Dec 27, 2007)

ok since ether video card  is going to be bottlenecked should i use the money and get a new mobo? and maybe a new CPU(i was thinking about waiting for the phenoms next year)


----------



## largon (Dec 27, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> (...) gain much better image quality (...)


The claimed IQ difference is _totally_ FUD. 
The rumour was born because one single nVIDIA *beta driver* had trouble rendering reflexions in Crysis. Later versions have fixed that. There's nothing more to it.


----------



## Steevo (Dec 27, 2007)

Solaris, you look either stone, or pimpin in that pic.  I just realised it.


bigmacks433. If everyone in a crowd using common sense and logic, states you are wrong, there is a high possiblity you are, and you will take less shit and heat if you just drop it, even if you still believe you are right. Youare not going to convince anyone here, mebey if we hadn't seen the reviews ourselves, and the site didn't have it's own review.


----------



## Solaris17 (Dec 27, 2007)

i was going for the pimpin look


----------



## KainXS (Dec 27, 2007)

btarunr said:


> Solaris, close this thread. we've had 'nuff of this HD3870 > 8800 GT BS. bigmacks is splashing
> 
> Bottomline 1792x1344 is NOT a resolution for mainstream users. The 8800 GT is a mainstream card and it serves its purpose far better than the 3870.
> @bigmacks
> The HD3870 is NOT (naught) better than the 8800GT, whichever point you shoot at



THE 3870 is NOT faster than the 8800GT Period. You can say that the 3870 has 320 shaders and all that crap but the 8800GT has 56 texture units while the 3870 only has 16, so you should pretty much see the difference now

stop the nonsence already

and this is coming from a 3870 owner

if you want to save money then buy the 3870 as its only a little slower than the 8800GT but if you want better performance then buy the 8800GT, if your lucky you will be able to overclock it to 8800GTS 512 levels

as for drivers, when ATI does correct their drivers we might see a 3870 with current 8800GT performance levels but by then Nvidia would have optimized their drivers as well and the 3870 will still be a bit slower


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

largon said:


> *bigmacks433*
> Yeah and Pentium D is faster than Core 2 Duo because it runs at higher freq?
> 
> No really, it's impossible to discuss about this with you as you just spam your useless gpureview link, blabber about the insignificant "shader operations", *ignore* valid counter-arguments, and insult people...



it's common fact the r600/r680 can more shader ops/second than 8800 ultra.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

KainXS said:


> THE 3870 is NOT faster than the 8800GT Period. You can say that the 3870 has 320 shaders and all that crap but the 8800GT has 56 texture units while the 3870 only has 16, so you should pretty much see the difference now
> 
> stop the nonsence already
> 
> ...




the 8800 gt is not faster than a 3870 .



with even busted up ass drivers 3870 still same performance.


----------



## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> it's common fact the r600/r680 can more shader ops/second than 8800 ultra.



Translating to what in the real world?


----------



## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> the 8800 gt is not faster than a 3870 .
> 
> 
> 
> with even busted up ass drivers 3870 still same performance.



Welcome to the Wonderland, meet our Alice aka. bigmacks433 who finds 8800GT slower than a HD3870 and equates the 3870 to an 8800 Ultra. T


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

btarunr said:


> Welcome to the Wonderland, meet our Alice aka. bigmacks433 who finds 8800GT slower than a HD3870 and equates the 3870 to an 8800 Ultra. T



my 8800 GT performance sucks ass, there's no way the 2900xt or 3870 perform worse.

the 2900xt will own ultra at high res 512 bit memory interface.


----------



## anticlutch (Dec 27, 2007)

largon said:


> The claimed IQ difference is _totally_ FUD.
> The rumour was born because one single nVIDIA *beta driver* had trouble rendering reflexions in Crysis. Later versions have fixed that. There's nothing more to it.



I've had all ATi cards up until my 8800gts... when I made the switch from my x1950pro to my 8800, I saw a drop in the image quality at similar settings. Even if it's just me, I'd still never buy from nVidia again as they have absolute crap drivers. I mean, how effing hard is it to freaking fix the video tearing problem when it's been months (at least 5 or 6 by my estimates) since it's come out? There has been at least 2-3 new driver versions that have come out yet still no fix...


----------



## largon (Dec 27, 2007)

*anticlutch*,
Did you make a screenshot comparison or was it just a subjective observation? 
Don't you find it strange that none of the reviews on the net have found this? 


bigmacks433 said:


> it's common fact the r600/r680 can more shader ops/second than 8800 ultra.


I don't know if to laugh or cry. 
I'm inclining to think we're witnessing some sort of _internet-echo-phenomenon_ in this thread...

*bigmacks433*,
Still you ignore the fact that R600/RV670 "shader ops" ≠ G80/G92 "shader ops". R600/RV670 has _simpler_ shaders that produce _simpler_ shader operations compared to G80/G92. Numeral amount of shader ops is higher on R600/RV670 but the informal quality of a single op is inferior.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

my 8800 GT is actually faster than a 8800 ultra i can overclock alot higher and make up for the lack of 16 shader processors disabled.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

largon said:


> I don't know if to laugh or cry.
> I'm inclining to think we're witnessing some sort of _internet-echo-phenomenon_ in this thread...
> 
> *bigmacks433*,
> Still you ignore the fact that R600/RV670 "shader ops" ≠ G80/G92 "shader ops". R600/RV670 has _simpler_ shaders that produce _simpler_ shader operations.



you are ignoring the fact that shader operation is a shader operation and the r600 does alot more period in total bit-tech doesnt know what they talking about when said 3870 does more shader operations/second right?


----------



## Solaris17 (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> my 8800 GT is actually faster than a 8800 ultra i can overclock alot higher and make up for the lack of 16 shader processors disabled.



Ok now your dalusional drop the ex and take a nap and you dont like your 8800GT so much than pm and ill buy it off you.


----------



## KainXS (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> you are ignoring the fact that shader operation is a shader operation and the r600 does alot more period in total bit-tech doesnt know what they talking about when said 3870 does more shader operations/second right?



even if it in fact DID the 8800GT still has 56 texture pipelines vs 16, it still would be slower

look at almost every benchmark on the internet and you'll see why


----------



## Disparia (Dec 27, 2007)

Post #100!

Booyaa! This post is for the game and I say, 8800GT FTW!!!!!!


----------



## KainXS (Dec 27, 2007)

Jizzler said:


> Post #100!








bigmacks433 said:


> my 8800 GT is actually faster than a 8800 ultra i can overclock alot higher and make up for the lack of 16 shader processors disabled.



your caught

you just said that your 8800GT performance sucks and then said your 8800GT was faster than an ultra, the ultra blows away every card on the market so your delusional


----------



## JC316 (Dec 27, 2007)

Why is this even an issue? The 8800GT is slightly more powerful than the 3870. My 2900 beat the GT in ONE game, Bioshock. Otherwise, the GT was alwasy around 10% faster than the 2900XT.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

KainXS said:


> your caught
> 
> you just said that your 8800GT performance sucks and then said your 8800GT was faster than an ultra, the ultra blows away every card on the market so your delusional



the whole g80 architecture sucks ass.

the r600 will get some magic drivers and pwn nvidias ass.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

KainXS said:


> your caught
> 
> you just said that your 8800GT performance sucks and then said your 8800GT was faster than an ultra, the ultra blows away every card on the market so your delusional



the 8800 ultra is nothing more than a slightly overclocked 8800 gtx.


----------



## KainXS (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> the whole g80 architecture sucks ass.
> 
> the r600 will get some magic drivers and pwn nvidias ass.



Im getting a blank from talking to you


----------



## Steevo (Dec 27, 2007)

To continue this thread you will need to buy everyone a drink or five.


----------



## KainXS (Dec 27, 2007)

I think he is just trying to mess with everyone


----------



## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> my 8800 GT performance sucks ass, there's no way the 2900xt or 3870 perform worse.
> 
> the 2900xt will own ultra at high res 512 bit memory interface.



maybe when playing HD p*rn movies, not with games.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

btarunr said:


> maybe when playing HD p*rn movies, not with games.



explain how i went from 30 fps in doom3 on launch in 2005 with x1800xt 512 mb to 72 fps about almost years later  doom3 1600x1200 x4 aa

it proves ati cards performance on benchmarks isnt really what cards are capable of.

remember r600 is new architecture.


----------



## KainXS (Dec 27, 2007)

btarunr said:


> maybe when playing HD p*rn movies, not with games.



he has a athlon single core, no wonder he's having problems running anything


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

KainXS said:


> I think he is just trying to mess with everyone



seriously 8800 GT performance is shitty i dont see how anyone gives this card props on top of that fuckin graphical bugs in a bunch of games.

no way 2900xt performs worse.


----------



## largon (Dec 27, 2007)

Troll Alert

*bails out of thread*


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

KainXS said:


> he has a athlon single core, no wonder he's having problems running anything



Yea single core 3800+ 2.4 ghz @ 2.88ghz is bad ....not too bad i score better than benchmarks on internet with faster cpus lol.


----------



## KainXS (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> seriously 8800 GT performance is shitty i dont see how anyone gives this card props on top of that fuckin graphical bugs in a bunch of games.
> 
> no way 2900xt performs worse.



your cpu is a single core athlon, that is your problem, not the card

man I am out of here


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

KainXS said:


> your cpu is a single core athlon, that is your problem, not the card
> 
> man I am out of here



so my cpu is the problem running 1792x1344 with x4 aa x16 af getting 20 fps in unreal tournament 3? when hardocp running lower resolution 1920x1200 said x2 or x4 aa wasnt playable lol.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

hardocp with faster cpu couldnt even run same resolution im running yea it's my single core lmfao bullshit.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

YEA MY CPU IS CAUSING THESE GRAPHICAL ERRORS ALSO

http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y106/doom3owns/?action=view&current=DCFN0002.flv

^ trees glitching/blinking black sof.

http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y106/doom3owns/?action=view&current=DCFN0001.flv

model arm glitching/blinking black ut3


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

do not buy a 8800 GT nvidia cards are lower quality/crap performance.

get a visiontek/powercolor 3870 and save yourself the trouble.


----------



## btarunr (Dec 27, 2007)

Dude, bigmacks433

you have to stop this snail-darting spree you got into, you're screwing with your reputation, others' time and this thread's sanctity. You're getting to nowhere. You have no regard to any sane review. Are you okay? You don't have to push yourself this far with this wild goose chase.

As for ATI, they did screw up with the 2900XT....it's an oven with night-club lights inside....guzzles down 280W, keeps your room warm, gets pwned by a $240 8800GT that runs cool and quiet. If a magical driver could fix it, ATI would've done that waaayy back and not suffered one nutkick after another from NVidia. If you're hating that brilliant piece of silicon you just bought (8800 GT), sell it off to Solaris17....he'll give it a nice home and love it. Buy yourself a new red-head and sit on your comode waiting for that magic driver....by then you'll be 2 yrs older.


----------



## rougal (Dec 27, 2007)

Ati 3870 seems to be performing a little bit slower than Nvidia 8800gt in (0 x AA) default mode.
If AA is enabled, (lets say 4 x AA) the 3870 performance reduction is really massive compared to 8800gt. What's on the spec, doesn't really reflect the power of the card in terms of real gaming performance. The truth is that 8800gt is really much superior than 3870. The 3870 is cheaper, thats what makes it look tempting considering its performance is just a little below 8800gt.

p/s 

bigmacks433...
Couldn't you post in single post instead of dividing your post into several "mini" post.Seriously most of your post fit into 1 post. (U understand what I mean?). I hate it when people do that. It just a little silly and obviously that's not a respectable way to increase post count.


----------



## BloodTotal (Dec 27, 2007)

Lets not be helping people to buy things that can be better, lets be helping people to buy things that are better, If I buy something I dont want to wait 8 months down the road for it to be optimized, 8 months down the road I would probably be able to buy something way better.


----------



## tkpenalty (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> Yes, the 3870 has more shader output than even 8800 ultra it's on paper more powerful only being held back by it's buggy drivers once sorta out will own even 8800 ultra.
> 
> just like x1800xt 512 mb was getting beat by 7800 gtx 512 mb at first because of it's buggy drivers and x1800xt512 mb eventually outperformed it.



Even though this is coming from an ATI fanboy (me), I have to say, what are you on about...? You can't compare two different architectures, Super Scalar vs Scalar... and AMD has a different core config anyway with the Stream processor allocation. 

Numbers tell a lot, 8800GT most of the time is faster than the HD3870. I would go with the 8800GT if you have the money, and NOT the HD3870. We don't even know if there will be any further improvements, since the RV670 is based off the R600, you would at least expect the drivers to be similar, and thus the performance boosts already present.


----------



## BloodTotal (Dec 27, 2007)

> Even though this is coming from an ATI fanboy (me), I have to say, what are you on about...? You can't compare two different architectures, Super Scalar vs Scalar... and AMD has a different core config anyway with the Stream processor allocation.
> 
> Numbers tell a lot, 8800GT most of the time is faster than the HD3870. I would go with the 8800GT if you have the money, and NOT the HD3870. We don't even know if there will be any further improvements, since the RV670 is based off the R600, you would at least expect the drivers to be similar, and thus the performance boosts already present.



yes the performance boosts are 80% already here, there is no way that ATI will come up with drivers to double the 3870s performance


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

BloodTotal said:


> as of this moment and not 8 months down the road, the 8800gt would outperform the 3870 in crysis, ill put up some benchmarks in a sec



nope 8 months down the road 3870 will be totally dusting 8800 GT nvidia has to use driver cheats to win on benchmarks iq lowering stuff.


----------



## BloodTotal (Dec 27, 2007)

> nope 8 months down the road 3870 will be totally dusting 8800 GT nvidia has to use driver cheats to win on benchmarks iq lowering stuff.



8 months down the road Nvidia will have a card that will outperform the 3870 by 1/4 or 1/2 of its performance, maybe even for the same price


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

BloodTotal said:


> 8 months down the road Nvidia will have a card that will outperform the 3870 by 1/4 or 1/2 of its performance, maybe even for the same price



so will ati, but comparing same generation by the time each are all totally unusable in games the 3870 is more futureproof and has more headroom for improvement in fps department while 8800 gt doesnt.

plus nvidia was caught using game specific iq lowering cheats to score higher on crysis benchmark.


----------



## JC316 (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> plus nvidia was caught using game specific iq lowering cheats to score higher on crysis benchmark.



If you think that ATI has never done that, then you are a fool. They DID do it with 3dmark so they could get better scores.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

JC316 said:


> If you think that ATI has never done that, then you are a fool. They DID do it with 3dmark so they could get better scores.



that's different 3dmark isnt a video game.

crysis is a video game nvidia was caught changing the way the reflections appeared on the water in crysis and improved fps by like 20 fps and with cheat disabled the fps took 20 fps dive lol.

elitebastards found it want link? probley still exist.


----------



## Tatty_One (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> i own a 8800 GT the 3870 is more powerful especially when ati get's rid of its drivers issues.



I own 2 8800GT's, one 8800GTS and an HD3870 currently (sad I know), and the 3870 is slower, not by a huge margin in most things (10-20% max), but sadly once you put a decent amount of AA on, it's a fair way behind in most things.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/in...sk=view&id=487&Itemid=29&limit=1&limitstart=1


NVIDIA CHEATING IN CRYSIS^


f course, this is probably just a simple driver bug that will be fixed in the next ForceWare release, right?  Quite possibly, but this is where things get interesting.


----------



## PaulieG (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/in...sk=view&id=487&Itemid=29&limit=1&limitstart=1
> 
> 
> NVIDIA CHEATING IN CRYSIS^
> ...



Mods, could you please ban this bipolar ATI fanboy? Can you possibly beat a dead horse just a little bit more? Give it a frickin' rest!!


----------



## JC316 (Dec 27, 2007)

X1800 did it in Half Life 2, as well as F.E.A.R. Trust me on this one, both companies cheat to get better scores. Although, it can hardly be considered cheating if it works to improve performance.

3dmark is a big deal, more so than a game, mainly since it's so widely used for benchmarking.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

JC316 said:


> X1800 did it in Half Life 2, as well as F.E.A.R. Trust me on this one, both companies cheat to get better scores. Although, it can hardly be considered cheating if it works to improve performance.
> 
> 3dmark is a big deal, more so than a game, mainly since it's so widely used for benchmarking.



nope ati doesnt lower image quality to get better framerates they actually optimize their drivers to get better framerates anandtech.com said ati has the best driver team in the world need that link also?


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

JC316 said:


> X1800 did it in Half Life 2, as well as F.E.A.R. Trust me on this one, both companies cheat to get better scores. Although, it can hardly be considered cheating if it works to improve performance.
> 
> 3dmark is a big deal, more so than a game, mainly since it's so widely used for benchmarking.



3dmark scores dont translate to real world performance.


----------



## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

nope that's not a picture of my 8800 GT.

im a troll? no im not happy with this piece of shit card's performance there's no way 3870 performs this shitty.


----------



## Tatty_One (Dec 27, 2007)

JC316 said:


> X1800 did it in Half Life 2, as well as F.E.A.R. Trust me on this one, both companies cheat to get better scores. Although, it can hardly be considered cheating if it works to improve performance.
> 
> 3dmark is a big deal, more so than a game, mainly since it's so widely used for benchmarking.



Agreed, and lets face it, we all play with different quality settings in any case so it's easy to compensate, it's no different to what we the users do in as much as....if a game dont run too smoothly at a particular quality setting, we lower it a bit 

I actually quite like the HD3870 for it's price, but contrary to popular belief, it does not run any cooler than the GT, my Asus as the AC Accelero S1 cooler on it and at 775 on the core idles at 32C and loads at 44C, the Palit 1GB card comes as standard with a non reference cooler and idles at 40C and loads at 56C, both are quiet, on the 3870, to keep it as quiet I run at 70% fan speed and it idles at 45C and loads at 60C on max overclock.


----------



## JC316 (Dec 27, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Agreed, and lets face it, we all play with different quality settings in any case so it's easy to compensate, it's no different to what we the users do in as much as....if a game dont run too smoothly at a particular quality setting, we lower it a bit



Amen to that, I am fixing to lower the settings on Crysis to get past the damn mine because it has my 2900 in a stranglehold at 1400x900 High.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

ati never lowered iq for half life 2 or any game .


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## Tatty_One (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> nope ati doesnt lower image quality to get better framerates they actually optimize their drivers to get better framerates anandtech.com said ati has the best driver team in the world need that link also?



If thats the case, after 2 driver releases since the HD3870 has been on the shelves (cat 7.11 and 7.12) why has neither improved performance in games?  I am not saying they wont get there in the end....maybe....but "out of the box" the 8800GT/GTS is just simply quicker, if you keep on having to optimise drivers (this relates to both NVidia and ATi) then does it not suggest that they werent quite right in the first place? damn when I got the HD3870 it didnt have ANY driver support, the driver set on the CD was a mismash until Cat 7.11 came out.


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## rougal (Dec 27, 2007)

all the people have point out what has been pointed out in many reviews from websites around the web. One thing is for sure, 8800gt beats 3870. MOST of the people already know that. So what do you wanna prove here bigmacks433?????? 

p/s
double posting the same quote should be considered spamming.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

someone trade 3870 for my 8800 gt?


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

rougal said:


> all the people have point out what has been pointed out in many reviews from websites around the web. One thing is for sure, 8800gt beats 3870. MOST of the people already know that. So what do you wanna prove here bigmacks433??????
> 
> p/s
> double posting the same quote should be considered spamming.



reviews=bs

take away 20 fps because then you got real nvidia crysis scores

2900xt>8800 ultra.


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## JC316 (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> ati never lowered iq for half life 2 or any game .



I was around when it happened and yes they did. I am never going to convince you, so I am out of this argument.


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## Tatty_One (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> someone trade 3870 for my 8800 gt?



naaa thanks, as I said, I have both so i speak from experience


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## Tatty_One (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> reviews=bs
> 
> take away 20 fps because then you got real nvidia crysis scores
> 
> 2900xt>8800 ultra.



LMAO.....you just quoted 2 reviews in earlier posts to support your argument but when it dont support it you say they are BS....I like that.....


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> LMAO.....you just quoted 2 reviews in earlier posts to support your argument but when it dont support it you say they are BS....I like that.....



only hardocp reviews are real world gameplay using fraps.

but hardocp is paid money by nvidia so they make it seem like 3870 cant handle better settings than nvidia.


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## mandelore (Dec 27, 2007)

2900xt ~ 8800gtx, but a very overclocked 1gb 2900 ~ ultra in some benchies, loses in others.

the 2900 architecture is sound, and scales excellent when overclocked, but cant compete against some benchies, in others it can both compete and sometimes win.

its all program dependant, but NV are doing great things, ATI have had great things going, but somewhat knee-capped by drivers.

ill still vouch for my 2900xt 1gb card, as i can clock crazy loads and get great performance, but NV can get similar performances in most situations with only a mild overclock on their highest end cards. 

lets wait and see what ATI come out with.l..


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

firingsquad/hardocp etc all paid money by nvidia putting ads on their site you know they biased and dont show real 2900xt/3870 performance.


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## zekrahminator (Dec 27, 2007)

If any of you are upset that your 8800GT gets a couple less FPS in some games than the HD 3870, and you can't live with a couple Crysis performance tweaks, than I'd be more than happy to take it off your hands. 512MB models only, please . 

Oh, and please include a power supply. My TT 430W PSU just doesn't cut it.....


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## BloodTotal (Dec 27, 2007)

> someone trade 3870 for my 8800 gt?



Legendary deal, take it now!


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> If any of you are upset that your 8800GT gets a couple less FPS in some games than the HD 3870, and you can't live with a couple Crysis performance tweaks, than I'd be more than happy to take it off your hands. 512MB models only, please .
> 
> Oh, and please include a power supply. My TT 430W PSU just doesn't cut it.....



i hope you like artifacts in unreal tournament 3.

i suggest anyone buy a 3870 over a 8800 GT and this is coming from 8800 gt owner.

if you want to deal with artifacts/constant break down/performance/graphical issues then get it.

if you want a solid card get a 3870.

i knew i shouldnt of bought a 8800 gt i heard people talking about the card having problems before i even bought it.


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## Tatty_One (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> only hardocp reviews are real world gameplay using fraps.
> 
> but hardocp is paid money by nvidia so they make it seem like 3870 cant handle better settings than nvidia.



Whats that got to do with the fact that you quoted both elitebastards (in their review) and Anandtech to support your arguments but then shortly afterwards said reviews were BS?

I am off to bed nows....this thread has done it's job.....I am almost asleep.....nighty night all!


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## mandelore (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> i hope you like artifacts in unreal tournament 3.
> 
> i suggest anyone buy a 3870 over a 8800 GT and this is coming from 8800 gt owner.
> 
> ...



orrr... get a 2900xt and oc it like shit


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Whats that got to do with the fact that you quoted both elitebastards (in their review) and Anandtech to support your arguments but then shortly afterwards said reviews were BS?
> 
> I am off to bed nows....this thread has done it's job.....I am almost asleep.....nighty night all!



because they dont have nvidia advertisements all over the websites lol.


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## Tatty_One (Dec 27, 2007)

8800GTS FTW!!!


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## zekrahminator (Dec 27, 2007)

Bigmack, I think that your 8800GT is merely getting too butt-rapingly hot. Replace the stock cooler with the Arctic Cooling Accelero S2, make sure all the heatsinks are on right, and point a fan at it if you're REALLY worried about heat. The 8800GT stock coolers are notorious for being crap. 

Or, if you think you have a defective card, just RMA it.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

http://hardocp.com/

look at hardocp front page bfgtech advertisement for my 8800 gt oc .
right side cant miss it LOL.

damn it changes ads every so often .
im sure bfgtech paying them money they are gonna say hell naw man this visiontek 3870 smokes this 8800 gt.


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## mandelore (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> http://hardocp.com/
> 
> look at hardocp front page bfgtech advertisement for my 8800 gt oc .
> right side cant miss it LOL.
> ...



wait.. look.. I like ATI far better than Nvidia, but we cant state reviews are BS depending on what advertisements they have!!! even if you think it looks suss, we need actual evidence for bias!!!


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## zekrahminator (Dec 27, 2007)

Bigmack, if you'd really like an HD 3870, I'd love to help you get there. I'll take it off your hands for $200 shipped to my front door. I'm sure you can get a used 3870 for $190 (your profit after shipping is included). PM me if interested. 

Just FYI, once I get the card, I'm going to seriously downclock it to reduce heat, and slap an aftermarket cooler on. You really should try some of the trivial stuff before just blasting out "I HATE NVIDIA I WANT A 3870" .


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

my card can be 50c 100% full fan speed and still artifacts in soldier of fortune/ut3.

on 3 different powersupplys with nvidia ut3 recommended drivers and tried 2 others.

hmmm


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

mandelore said:


> wait.. look.. I like ATI far better than Nvidia, but we cant state reviews are BS depending on what advertisements they have!!! even if you think it looks suss, we need actual evidence for bias!!!



nope, gamespot fired a reviewer because he gave  a game  bad score and gamespot was getting paid by the developer of bad game to advertise their game, the dev threatened to pull away ad/money, so they fired jeff.


i can guarantee you the 3870 performs better in person than what websites show.


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## Tatty_One (Dec 27, 2007)

Here is a TPU review carried out by W1zzard of the Zotac 8800GTS, you will see in the game benches how the 8800GT and HD3870 perform also in the same tests, ohhhhh and you wont see a BFG ad anywhere 

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=46548


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## zekrahminator (Dec 27, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> my card can be 50c 100% full fan speed and still artifacts in soldier of fortune/ut3.
> 
> on 3 different powersupplys with nvidia ut3 recommended drivers and tried 2 others.
> 
> hmmm



RMA it, then, or replace the stock cooler with something more meaty. I'm betting that the heatsink isn't making adequate contact with a couple RAMsinks, or the VRMs. Perhaps a mere cleaning of the stock thermal gooze and replacing it with, say, AS5 or Arctic Cooling MX-2 oughta do the trick .


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

if money has to do with video game scores it's gotta have something to do with website benchmark scores also.


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## Steevo (Dec 27, 2007)

Pics and links to a vaild 3Dmark.



Otherwise you are just some troll popping off on a forum.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

lol, magic drivers will save 2900xt/3870 i still call bs i wish i had the card to test myself.

i cant see how those card would be slower.

sounds like wizard didnt know how to set up his rig.


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## ShadowFold (Dec 27, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> Bigmack, I think that your 8800GT is merely getting too butt-rapingly hot. Replace the stock cooler with the Arctic Cooling Accelero S2, make sure all the heatsinks are on right, and point a fan at it if you're REALLY worried about heat. The 8800GT stock coolers are notorious for being crap.
> 
> Or, if you think you have a defective card, just RMA it.



If the stock cooler on a card cant cool it properly then it doesnt deserve to be bought. Even if its crazy fast thats just sad.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/3k929/


look notice name^ yes i own a 8800 gt, and i personally dont see how a 3870 could be slower* this 8800 gt isnt very quick.


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## zekrahminator (Dec 27, 2007)

The reference design gets up to 95C load .

The reason why I like the Accelero S2 is simple. There's a revision coming out that guarantees that it will fit on an 8800GT/ HD 3870, it keeps the 8800GT at 55C load PASSIVE, and I've heard it can go into the mid 40's with the turbo fan attachment. At $25, you'd be a fool not to get it with an 8800GT.


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## yogurt_21 (Dec 27, 2007)

lol whats all this? alrightly i'm an extreme amd/ati fanboy and even through my fanboy fog glasses I see the 8800gt beating the 3870 in almost all benches. granted the 3870 is cheaper, but still. 

and as with all r6xx based gpu's it's going to have its own problems with compatibility with certain games. I don't see how you can say then that the 8800gt is a worse product. from all i've read they seem to be pretty stable and aside from the rumored driver hacks in a few games don't seem to be having any issues. (and the driver hacks turned out to be a bad set of drivers that actually reduced performance lol) 

I dont see how this is even an argument lol.

edit: oh wait lol you're on a slower cpu, that explians it. lemme guess you game at 1280x1024 too. lol
and what the hell 19" gets up to 1700x1300? I SMELL BS.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

on the side note, techpowerup video card reviews need to mention specifics about their benchmarks like ut3 etc they dont mention map they ran or if it was flyby or bot match or  how many seconds they ran ut3 bench for etc.


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## zekrahminator (Dec 27, 2007)

I'm an ATI/AMD fanboy, and I am very disappointed with what ATI/AMD have to offer at this point. 

I'm getting an 8800GT and an Accelero S1 Rev.2 ASAP. 

Oh yeah, I'm also getting a job... .


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 27, 2007)

the 2900xt 1gb will eventually own 8800 ultra in all games at highres it already does outperform it in prey.


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## zekrahminator (Dec 28, 2007)

Then why don't you sell the 8800GT, or at least get it refunded, and then buy the 2900XT 1GB .


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

i could find some benchmarks where 2900xt does win.

i think it's just drivers not being optimized for all games are much as nvidia because nvidia sponsors just about every goddamn game out there look www.nzone.com


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

i dunno why am i getting artifacts 

someone run unreal tournament 3 for me wizard has the game and a 8800 GTS get him to run it and report it he see's black/boxes graphics errors on his character models arm.


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## PaulieG (Dec 28, 2007)

Guys, would you stop arguing with him. At this point he's even insulting wiz. Could we please close this thread? Zek?


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## Solaris17 (Dec 28, 2007)

LOL w1zz doesnt know how to set up a system? LOL id like you to tell him that uyou know while your at it tell him he isnt good at programming i hear the rumor is he just started...at any rate this is rediculous now the 2900 beats the ultra....ya ok...but ill tell you what ill do you one better....you PM and id be more than happy to take the 8800GT off your hands and with the money i give you go get your kick ass 3870 and THEN ill do you one better and me and you can compete....apparently unlike w1zz i know how to set up a system and me and you can have a benching contest........

im taking bets from the ppl of the forum.....for those of you betting on the 3870 please PM me for my paypal info ill want the money 1 week after i get the card....thats all i need

but seriously sell me the card....the 25FPS im pulling with my 8600GT is boring me i want like 60.


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## wiak (Dec 28, 2007)

ShadowFold said:


> The 3870 is quieter, more power efficiant, and not as hot. Tho its just a little bit slower. Also ATi has some amazing image quality and HDMI suport. I hooked my HD 3850 up to my dads HDMI Ready tv and it was an amazing experiance.


jup, 3870/3850 got hdmi out, UVD, amazing video quality, drivers EVERY months as in Catalyst 7.12 = desember 2007, 8.1 = january 2008 
and 3870 is DirectX 10.1 not DirectX 10 as in 8800 gt
some 3870 cards got the Valve's black box aka team fortress 2, Portal & Half-Life 2 Episode Two and 3DMark06, so that is wroth atleast 20% of the price, UVD is worth like 20% to, so the futures will make up for it



KainXS said:


> ATI is backed by AMD which produces CPU's the X2 line for example,
> Nvidia produices performance motherboards and graphics cards


dont forget own motherboard and graphics cards


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

how am i insulting him? he might not know how to set everything up the way it should be.

i put some new thermal compound on my 8800 GT gpu and checked ram/heat pads and it's still doing same shit in ut3 and soldier of fortune.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

nvidia cards suck ass.


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## PaulieG (Dec 28, 2007)

BFG 8800GT overclocked to 740/1000. No artifacts in any games, including UT3. Must be YOUR specific card.


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## KainXS (Dec 28, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> nvidia cards suck ass.



man, do you ever stop

I think you have said enough to be banned


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## PaulieG (Dec 28, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> nvidia cards suck ass.



BRILLIANT!!


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

KainXS said:


> man, do you ever stop
> 
> I think you have said enough to be banned



stop your whinning.

hows it my fault nvidia builds cheap ass cards? only reason my x1800xt messed up was because memory died not ati's fault, these are gpu errors.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

get the 3870 it's faster and better


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## Solaris17 (Dec 28, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> how am i insulting him? he might not know how to set everything up the way it should be.
> 
> i put some new thermal compound on my 8800 GT gpu and checked ram/heat pads and it's still doing same shit in ut3 and soldier of fortune.




um well i highely doubt that he's the administrator for one of the biggest tech sites in the world he created ati tool, gpu-z, systool,tpubench. he gets spnsored by the biggest computer and tech companys in the world he has to travel extensively he gets and keeps hardware for free simply because the reveiws here are world renowned.....im not entirely sure but he might have an idea on how to tweak and build a rig...and a high chance of knowing how to do it far more superior to yours.


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## KainXS (Dec 28, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> get the 3870 it's faster and better



So no matter what anyone tells you, the 3870 is better than the 8800GT and the 2900XT is better than the 8800ULTRA


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## VictorCS (Dec 28, 2007)

8800GT = Faster
HD3870 = Cheaper

Performance is very similare, "money/whatyouget", but the 3870 got Dx10.1 and UVD also... ^^


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

then why cant he report if he has graphical errors in unreal tournament 3 also?


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

KainXS said:


> So no matter what anyone tells you, the 3870 is better than the 8800GT and the 2900XT is better than the 8800ULTRA



you will see once ati get's their shit together.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 28, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> then why cant he report if he has graphical errors in unreal tournament 3 also?



well he coulnt report errors that he doesnrt get.......the reveiw(s) of the numerous 8800GT's he's tested ran fine.......and if their was a problem he'd tell us...like he has in other reveiws.


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## KainXS (Dec 28, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> you will see once ati get's their shit together.



why do you curse so much


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

Solaris17 said:


> well he coulnt report errors that he doesnrt get.......the reveiw(s) of the numerous 8800GT's he's tested ran fine.......and if their was a problem he'd tell us...like he has in other reveiws.



maybe he didnt notice?

i seen him post in one of my threads he couldnt atleast say no? i havent seen any using 8800 gts/8800 gt/gtx etc.


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## KainXS (Dec 28, 2007)

Im sorry to tell you this bigmack but this thread does not exist for your whining, this thead exists to help Snipe and others who want to buy either the 8800GT or 3870 decide which to buy, you have not helped anyone at all since it started, If you have a problem with your card then start a new thread and list your problems their or sell it


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## FatForester (Dec 28, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> you will see once ati get's their shit together.



Merry Christmas, you're an idiot!


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## Solaris17 (Dec 28, 2007)

why is he going to post in a thread thats not so much about preformance as it is a fanboy claming everything ati is better than an 8800 Ultra? the most he'd do is post a link to multiple 8800GT reveiws but why even do that when its just as easy for YOU to do that.......and i dont see how he couldnt notice seeing as your stating its obvious in the extreme.....and i wouldnt follow this much further arguing with members is one thing but saying that w1zz is incompitent at detecting errors or not well versed in system building or saying theirs a chance he's biased in his reveiws is going to get you laughed at and any credit that your trying so hard to fight for is going to absolutely useless.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 28, 2007)

KainXS said:


> Im sorry to tell you this bigmack but this thread does not exist for your whining, this thead exists to help Snipe and others who want to buy either the 8800GT or 3870 decide which to buy, you have not helped anyone at all since it started, If you have a problem with your card then start a new thread and list your problems their or sell it



i want the card...then i could mod that...and become the 8600/8800 mod guru....i tried hard for the first title....worked hard on my guide i wouldnt let you guys down with the 8800


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## zekrahminator (Dec 28, 2007)

bigmacks433 said:


> nvidia cards suck ass.



Little warning for ya...

Ignorant comments/ blatant trashing towards anyone or anything just doesn't have a place here. Don't say "NVIDIA sucks ass" without having some serious proof, and even then there are much better ways to say it. 

If you ignore me, I'll be sure to disregard posting rights for the next five days.



FatForester said:


> Merry Christmas, you're an idiot!



A little over the top, my friend, please tone it down...


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## Disparia (Dec 28, 2007)

Post #200! So many posts, so little accomplished 

Solaris - definitely did good with your 8600GT. I have to clock my 8600GTS higher now before posting in the 8500/8600 overclocking thread as it's barely faster  Imagine if you got that 8800GT!


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## Solaris17 (Dec 28, 2007)

zek dont you dare lock this i have dibbs


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## zekrahminator (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm not locking, I'm just giving these guys the opportunity to, as bigmack so eloquently put it, "get their shit together".


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## wiak (Dec 28, 2007)

take the 3850 or 3870, there is no point of the 8800 gt after his system specs, he wont get all the performace out of the 8800 gt or the 3870 anyway if you ask me
the 3850 will be a big jump over the 8600 anyway and its cheaper than both the 3870 and 8800 gt


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## Solaris17 (Dec 28, 2007)

wait what?......he has a 8800GT not a 8600.....and i want an 8800GT i wont settle for anything less really. and im not happy with ati's preformance this generation....and just so bigmack doesnt think im a fanboi i was a proud owner of a 9250 9800PRo heavely modded to the point were i got 1020 points in 3dmark 06 with an athlon xp barton at 2.4Ghz and i owned a x1600XT the real version b4 the rename were 1550's or w/e became 1600's....which made me feel good cause ppl thought they could beat me with their re branded one....until they realized they had a 15xx core lol.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Dec 28, 2007)

I think all you guys should accept your right and he's not,and ignore him.your trying to convince a brick wall its a door.


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## zekrahminator (Dec 28, 2007)

Right, now that that's settled, I'm going to go play Crysis on my X850XT-based system (see why I want the 8800GT ).


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## FatForester (Dec 28, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> A little over the top, my friend, please tone it down...



Well, when the "lack of common sense" definition is fulfilled, it feels right to say that. I still shouldn't have said it, but when you take into account he thinks W1z is incompetent, it's fully deserved!


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

3870 has more room for improvement the 8800 GT doesnt.

you are more likly to get a faulty 8800 gt rather than a faulty 3870.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

ok so why am i getting artifacts in ut3 again?


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## KainXS (Dec 28, 2007)

If he can't afford a 3870 or 8800GT then its 3850 all the way, right now I have mine at 943/1104 stable.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

im gonna reformat see and see if that does anything.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

probley wasting my time, goddamn i wish my bestbuy had some 8800 gt's in stock id exchange it for another.


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## wiak (Dec 28, 2007)

Solaris17 said:


> wait what?......he has a 8800GT not a 8600.....and i want an 8800GT i wont settle for anything less really. and im not happy with ati's preformance this generation....and just so bigmack doesnt think im a fanboi i was a proud owner of a 9250 9800PRo heavely modded to the point were i got 1020 points in 3dmark 06 with an athlon xp barton at 2.4Ghz and i owned a x1600XT the real version b4 the rename were 1550's or w/e became 1600's....which made me feel good cause ppl thought they could beat me with their re branded one....until they realized they had a 15xx core lol.


http://forums.techpowerup.com/member.php?u=41501
his profile says 8600 GT


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## btarunr (Dec 28, 2007)

OMFG!!!!

I take a nap for 5 hours thinking this thread will be full of bumps of probably closed by some super-mod by now and it got this far?!? What a sham!



bigmacks433 said:


> nvidia cards suck ass.



no, my friend, YOU suck ass. There's no concrete evidence of NVidia doing that "suck ass act" they gave us good technology for good price all through. YOU genuinely suck ass, there's enough evidence to that from this thread.

You hate your *8800 GT*, sell it off to Solaris17, buy yourself a permanent marker and write "Duh!" on your forehead....that'll look good on you. 



bigmacks443]2900xt will pwn 8800 Ultra[/QUOTE]

In your dreams said:


> sounds like wizard didnt know how to set up his rig.



^Proves you're a doped dreamer, an Alice living in the underdog's wonderland. Let him read this, and you're out of TPU. The guy sacrifised a lot to run TPU, makes free reviews for us with little or NO commercials. He shows not BIAS, names his brilliant OC application as ATI tool, you call him that? Blasphemy !!!


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

btarunr said:


> OMFG!!!!
> 
> I take a nap for 5 hours thinking this thread will be full of bumps of probably closed by some super-mod by now and it got this far?!? What a sham!
> 
> ...



im not gonna sell him a piece of trash he couldnt fix the problems. dude
lol


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## zekrahminator (Dec 28, 2007)

Guys...didn't I just warn you to chill?


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## btarunr (Dec 28, 2007)

Uh Zek....funny guy.hahahaha. C'mon close this thread it's gone too far. If some supermod jumps in , infractions will start to fly, you and Sol17 will be questioned.


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## PaulieG (Dec 28, 2007)

c'mon zek, please close this thread. I'm begging you.


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

fix my problems and nvidia rules


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## zekrahminator (Dec 28, 2007)

Solaris already has dibs (and I lack the power), btarunr, please delete your last comment.


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## wiak (Dec 28, 2007)

Paulieg said:


> c'mon zek, please close this thread. I'm begging you.


+1 
jup, this seams to be a pissing match now


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## bigmacks433 (Dec 28, 2007)

back on topic yea get a 3870.


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## zekrahminator (Dec 28, 2007)




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## Solaris17 (Dec 28, 2007)

thread locked and bigmack i could do more with that card than you seem able and you could possibly dream of.....and im a big boy im sure if i spent 230$ on your artifacting card id know the risks when i went to see if i could do anything to it...thnx for the concern though...kthnxbye.


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## btarunr (Dec 28, 2007)

done. deleted.

Who seems legit again? bigmacks? He's big*muck*s443. And you're letting him go this far. For Christ's sake request Solaris17 and close this. If W1z or a supermod visits this, you'll both be in trouble and don't want you to get into trouble for the sake of some sh**head who sounds more constipated than doped.


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