# 4k monitor scaling for gaming



## mechtech (Jan 20, 2020)

So, just got a 4k monitor (LG 27UL550-W), pretty nice, although a bit big for the desk, kinda have to move my head around to side to side.  (Previous monitor is 2560x1440 23.8")

So I was hoping to run games at 1080p to keep the fps up but still good decently sharp, but it's not.  Is this due to the scalar?  Will AMD virtual super resolution work for this or not?  Is there any other work-arounds for this?

Thanks


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## Hardcore Games (Jan 20, 2020)

Set the game resolution as needed in game for titles that are unplayable


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## kapone32 (Jan 20, 2020)

If that monitor is 10 bit you should be able to run 1440P with a 1.4 cable and get decent FPS, I assume you have a good GPU as you already have a 1440P screen. AMD Radeon Boost would be better if you play FPS. Some games I do set to 1440P (Division) and run them at 60% scaling if possible.


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## EarthDog (Jan 21, 2020)

Any non crt monitor not running at its native resolution is going to be a bit blurry... you can try lowering in-game resolution scale, but not sure if that will work.

I always run at my native res... I always bought an appropriate resolution/hz monitor for the card I have. In my case, a 2080ti for 144/165hz gaming. It's good at 60hz 4k too. 

Try lowering AA or disabling it and other in-game options to get your fps up instead of lowering your res... as was suggested earlier, you should have a decent gpu as you were already at 2560x1440 (maybe fill out system specs so we know what you have, exactly. That said, amd doesnt really have a 4k 60 fps capable card.



kapone32 said:


> If that monitor is 10 bit you should be able to run 1440P with a 1.4 cable


What does color depth have to do with running a certain res?


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## Mats (Jan 21, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Any non crt monitor not running at its native resolution is going to be a bit blurry...


Is this true if even if you running at half the resolution, like the OP does?

I mean, running 1440 on a 2160 display will obviously make it blurry, but with 1080 on a 2160 I always thought it would get sharper due to having exactly 2 x 2 pixels in the display for each pixel coming from the game. Never tried tho.


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## kapone32 (Jan 21, 2020)

What does color depth have to do with running a certain res?
[/QUOTE]

I have found that with my setup if my panel is set to 8 bit 1440P is exactly that on screen (it does not scale) but when the monitor to 10 bit 1440P scales perfectly on the display. It is just something that I have noticed.


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## EarthDog (Jan 21, 2020)

Mats said:


> Is this true if even if you running at half the resolution, like the OP does?
> 
> I mean, running 1440 on a 2160 display will obviously make it blurry, but with 1080 on a 2160 I always thought it would get sharper due to having exactly 2 x 2 pixels in the display for each pixel coming from the game. Never tried tho.


AFAIK, yes. Running at 1080p on a 4k monitor is using 4x of the same pixels/color/size so the fidelity isnt going to be there as compared to running it at the native res.



kapone32 said:


> I have found that with my setup if my panel is set to 8 bit 1440P is exactly that on screen (it does not scale) but when the monitor to 10 bit 1440P scales perfectly on the display. It is just something that I have noticed.


Dude, get your quoting straight already... are you really that big of a greenhorn (~1.8K posts in) or just messing with me? Sweet jeebus, man...

I still dont understand what color depth has to do with it... do you? It doesnt make sense to me.... it's like fixing the brakes when AC doesnt work...


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## Mats (Jan 21, 2020)

Seems like Windows scaling can make games blurry..



EarthDog said:


> AFAIK, yes. Running at 1080p on a 4k monitor is using 4x of the same pixels/color/size so the fidelity isnt going to be there as compared to running it at the native res.


Yeah, I understand that, but I meant it should look quite a bit better than 1080 on 1440, because of the lack of interpolation (dunno the correct word here).


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## EarthDog (Jan 21, 2020)

Mats said:


> Seems like Windows scaling can make games blurry..
> 
> 
> Yeah, I understand that, but I meant it should look quite a bit better than 1080 on 1440, because of the lack of interpolation (dunno the correct word here).


Maybe? I just know its blurry compared to native.


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## Mats (Jan 21, 2020)

I just read this about scaling, it's on W8.1 tho, but I don't think it'll make much difference.






						My Experience Gaming 1080p on 4k Monitor
					

I've seen a lot of misinformation on this subject so I thought I'd share my experience to help others with similar questions. There are also a few side notes of my experience with this specific card and monitor. Do games running at 1080p on a 4k monitor appear blurrier than they would on a native...




					linustechtips.com


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## EarthDog (Jan 21, 2020)

Mats said:


> I just read this about scaling, it's on W8.1 tho, but I don't think it'll make much difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I only have a 4K monitor on my test rig, but I will have to try that and see!


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## mechtech (Jan 21, 2020)

Thanks for the replies.

So on Win10 x64 pro 1809, other monitor BenQ BL2420PT, and ran default res 2560x1440, card RX480 8GB.

Mainly older games, like BL2, BL GOTY Enhanced, and one newer one, Witcher 3 GOTY.

Not too big  of a deal being a bit blurry, but got spoiled at 2560x1440, was pretty sharp.  I was hoping there was a good scaler and it would be 2:1 and be pretty good.  I only tried 1080p, so maybe I will give 1440p a shot, and see if 2160p makes the card howl lol

I will check the color option in the monitor OSD, I think it''s 8bit+FRC though.

Edit
So no 10-bit option on monitor
Findings
1080p in game settings - blurry
1440p in game settings - pretty good, not perfect though
2160p in game settings - probably the worse, FoV was smaller, like looking through a scope, see below, probably why.

Now, went and checked windows scaling and it's at 150%
So 1.5x1440 = 2160  and that's when the game looked the best.

So looks like windows scaling is being  applied in game as well.

Also the vid card ran BL GOTY EE at 60fps at 4k in game, but the fans ramped up.

Other thoughts, think I will try setting windows to 200% and running 1080p just to see how it looks and how FoV is.


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## Mussels (Jan 21, 2020)

Curious, i'll have to poke scaling options and test this myself later

I found that non native res was crap on 4k as well on various screens, but cant recall if i tested the scaler


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## Mats (Jan 21, 2020)

mechtech said:


> Other thoughts, think I will try setting windows to 200% and running 1080p just to see how it looks and how FoV is.


Try 100 % while you're at it, just to see what happens. I don't expect you to stay there tho.


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## bug (Jan 21, 2020)

Mats said:


> Seems like Windows scaling can make games blurry..
> 
> 
> Yeah, I understand that, but I meant it should look quite a bit better than 1080 on 1440, because of the lack of interpolation (dunno the correct word here).


The problem is, everything interpolates. Only the newest hardware has 1:1 scaling, otherwise even FHD on a 4k monitor will get blurred.


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## ratirt (Jan 21, 2020)

Hmm. This is quite weird. On my screen (LG 27UD69 UHD ) I didn't have problems with 1080p. Although I'm not using this res much. I've had problem with one game but it is old and scaling sometimes gets funny here.
Try setting your desktop to lower than 4k when going 1080p with some games and see if it will scale better with 1080p then.  For me only one game had a problem but it wasn't blurry I just couldn't get it to run


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## Zach_01 (Jan 21, 2020)

mechtech said:


> So, just got a 4k monitor (LG 27UL550-W), pretty nice, although a bit big for the desk, kinda have to move my head around to side to side.  (Previous monitor is 2560x1440 23.8")
> 
> So I was hoping to run games at 1080p to keep the fps up but still good decently sharp, but it's not.  Is this due to the scalar?  Will AMD virtual super resolution work for this or not?  Is there any other work-arounds for this?
> 
> Thanks


What exactly is the issue? Blurry image or its too pixelated (jagged object edges).

It will make sense the second as 1080p on 2160p monitor, as others said, groups 4 pixels (2x2) into one.
In large (and close to viewer) monitors, the picture's pixel density is in half and visible...


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## mechtech (Jan 21, 2020)

Yes I forgot to mention, my windows monitor setting is default at 2160p.

Never had a chance to put windows scaling to 200% and try 1080p gaming res to see how it looks.

Interesting findings/results none the less.


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## oobymach (Jan 21, 2020)

4k exactly scales to 1080p but on a 4k monitor if you set 1080p each pixel is 4 pixels so it looks kinda blurry compared with a native 1080p monitor.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 21, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> If that monitor is 10 bit you should be able to run 1440P with a 1.4 cable and get decent FPS, I assume you have a good GPU as you already have a 1440P screen. AMD Radeon Boost would be better if you play FPS. Some games I do set to 1440P (Division) and run them at 60% scaling if possible.


I try and run 4k all the time , even on a 1060 6Gb using scaling, it's very doable.
My main rig runs 4k fine with few tweaks in most games but I game mostly on a 2600k with a 1060 on a 4k 55" telly just fine at 4k on the latest Cod, apex and GtaV ,payday2 and a few others using various normal to medium settings and scaling.

Im about 6-7 feet away with a pad (yes I am crap enough at game's that I don't need keyboard and mouse) and it looks better than 1080p if a little blury i can't tell as much at distance.
Sorry just agreeing and adding to kapone32


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## droopyRO (Jan 22, 2020)

Nvidia and i think AMD now have sharpness filters build in to the drivers, it can get interpolated images a bit sharper and better looking.
PS: if you need to move your head to see on a 27", you are probably too close to it, i don't need to do that on a 32".


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## miked408 (Jan 29, 2020)

Mats said:


> I just read this about scaling, it's on W8.1 tho, but I don't think it'll make much difference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





oobymach said:


> 4k exactly scales to 1080p but on a 4k monitor if you set 1080p each pixel is 4 pixels so it looks kinda blurry compared with a native 1080p monitor.




Ahhh, thanks for this. I was getting a blurry image and this was my problem.[/QUOTE]


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 29, 2020)

You'll want Virtual Super Resolution off.  What that does, for example, is make the card render at whatever you tell the game to render at and it samples it down to whatever the display resolution is.  For example, if you have a 1080p monitor, Virtual Super Resolution can allow games to render at 1440p.

This is under Gear icon -> Display.  So you'll want to disable Virtual Super Resolution unless you want games to be spammed with a lot of resolution options beyond what your monitor supports.

Also in the same place, you'll find "GPU Scaling."  That's what you want to enable.  It will make the GPU scale the pixels and output at native resolution (e.g. 1080p -> 4K) rather than trusting the display scaler to do the job.  If this is disabled and you run a game at 1080p on a monitor with a 4K native resolution, the display's scaler will be used instead of the GPU's.  The GPU should always do a better job at scaling than the monitor.


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## R-T-B (Jan 29, 2020)

You want gpu scaling and it has to be integer scaling IIRC.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 29, 2020)

Integer scaling is directly under GPU scaling.  I don't know that integer scaling is better in most circumstances...generally only games with a pixelated look by design.




GPU Scaling ON, Integer Scaling OFF, and Radeon Image Sharpening ON might look better.


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## Mussels (Jan 30, 2020)

Nvidia equivalent, since i just found it


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## notb (Jan 30, 2020)

Mats said:


> Is this true if even if you running at half the resolution, like the OP does?


Yes. That's the whole point of integer scaling (big topic in 2019).
Traditional scaling is built around interpolation, so it introduces some blur. Input/output ratio doesn't matter.


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## Mussels (Jan 30, 2020)

Just tested the nvidia scaling option, hotdamn. 720p game setting, monitor reports 1440p

Yes its blurrier than native, but its a LOT clearer than non native res


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## notb (Jan 30, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Yes its blurrier than native, but its a LOT clearer than non native res


It isn't more blurry (unless you have some issue with integer scaling). It's just *less detailed*. These are 2 different things.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 30, 2020)

Mussels said:


> Just tested the nvidia scaling option, hotdamn. 720p game setting, monitor reports 1440p
> 
> Yes its blurrier than native, but its a LOT clearer than non native res


Because GPUs will always scale better than monitors (they literally just sample different data from the memory and send it out) and because, as your picture shows, you're image sharpening too which reasonably compensates for loses from running at a lower resolution and upscaling.

Apparently NVIDIA decided to tie the two features together where AMD has them separate but I'm guessing one of the NVIDIA options is to sharpen without scaling too.  In any case, as said before, there's three options here in graphics settings (no matter the vendor) you want to look at it:

GPU Scaling (decouple GPU render resolution from display resolution)
Image Sharpening (counters detail loss from reduced resolution)
Integer Scaling (maybe, depends on game really)

Integer scaling is great in a game like Terraria, Starbound, or Stardew Valley (pixel art).  It's not good for a game like Crysis, Far Cry, Surviving Mars, or anything else that attempts to mimic reality.


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## Mussels (Jan 30, 2020)

Can confirm that nvidia scaling works pretty well in 2D and 3D on a 4k monitor with 1080p res

Yes its not as clear as native res, but text was definitely readable and gaming FPS is obviously a world above


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## ppn (Jan 30, 2020)

Of course it is blurry, There is a distance between the pixels, empty dark space, so the pixel will look less bright as well.

The scaling may be perfect but every pixel consists of four pixels with a dark line inbetween.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 30, 2020)

That's not how GPU scaling works.  Remember what a GPU actually has in its memory: meshes and verticies in 3D space.  A GPU running at 4K and 1080p have the same fundamental data; the difference is that 1080p takes ‭2,073,600‬ samples of that data per frame while 4K is going to take ‭‭8,294,400‬ samples.  A monitor scaler can't do that.  It only has the samples it is given by the GPU and no more.  They have to stretch that limited data to fill more pixels...it's not pretty because it starts from a low-information point of view unlike the GPU which starts from an high-information point of view.  This is also why image sharpening is low cost, high returns for GPUs: it already knows where all the edges are because it's in the memory.‬


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## ppn (Jan 30, 2020)

In the case of 1080p, it just displays 4 pixels. 4pixels are displaying the same thing, the same pixel. there is no scaling what soever. And you get a Cross pattern that separates them right in the middle. And you perceive that as blurred.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 30, 2020)

ppn said:


> In the case of 1080p, it just displays 4 pixels. 4pixels are displaying the same thing, the same pixel.


This statement is only true of integer scaling in the GPU.  GPUs without integer scaling definitely won't (they work how I described).  Monitor behavior depends entirely on how the scalar is designed to work in each model.  Some (especially TVs) have really crappy scalers (sloppily approximate pixels); some have great scalers (they basically draw the frame, then resample the drawing before displaying it); some (like CRTs) don't have scalers at all (the pixels were never defined in the first place in the context of the display).


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## ppn (Jan 30, 2020)

4k vs 1080
Forced scaling on the GPU now.


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## notb (Jan 30, 2020)

ppn said:


> 4k vs 1080
> Forced scaling on the GPU now.


That's not integer scaling (clearly).
Not supported by your GPU or wrong settings.


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## Mussels (Jan 30, 2020)

how blurred it looks of course varies depending on the tech in the panel itself, pixels aren't exactly simple or identical between various screen technologies


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 30, 2020)

ppn said:


> 4k vs 1080
> Forced scaling on the GPU now.
> 
> View attachment 143602View attachment 143603


On the left, 4K is able to add detail in between the leaves that 1080p leaves out so it has the appearance of bigger shadows.  4K has a sharper image than 1080p, as expected because more detail makes it through.

That image also makes my point: it's not just making 1 pixel of data cover 4.  It's resampling in scaling which makes things blurrier/lose detail but that's inevitable in upscaling.


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