# Can secure text messaging like Tigertext be read by the NSA?



## gerradfaegan (Aug 3, 2013)

Can secure text messaging apps like Tigertext be read by the government or anyone else?
What about standard SMS text messages?
Is there any form of electronics communication that the government or NSA can’t read or capture?


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## MT Alex (Aug 3, 2013)

1.  Yes
2.  Yes
3.  No


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## micropage7 (Aug 3, 2013)

if you talk about plain text
i guess theres nothing you can do about it
maybe you can create your own code and make them more difficult to decrypt


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## ShiBDiB (Aug 3, 2013)

Yes it can.. The better question is what are you trying to hide?


Seriously tho.. unless ur planning to blow something up, the nsa doesnt care about ur drug discussions. And no court in their right mind would allow it as evidence in a non terrorism related case. And creating a code to encrypt is also a waste of time.. The us has entire compounds dedicated to crypto stuff.


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## McSteel (Aug 3, 2013)

Why would you even care about this? Do you really think they have nothing better to do than read your sext messages? And even if it was so, you can't really consider yourself so special and different as to think they haven't read thousands of messages like that already. People are predictable, and they are typically boring after a while. You won't matter to them unless you really push your luck by (pretending to be) arranging a bombing of a densely populated residential area.


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## ShiBDiB (Aug 3, 2013)

Using techniques and programs to get around it just flags you to be looked into further. Cause it's a "Oh he has something to hide..." kind of reaction.

Hell you making this thread probably got you flagged. Not that anyone will check it unless theirs a bigger picture of you that warrants including this piece.


It comes down to this.. IF you have nothing to hide, stop being paranoid. And if you do have something to hide, I'll read about you in a week or so in a LEO bulletin.


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## MT Alex (Aug 3, 2013)

ShiBDiB said:


> It comes down to this.. IF you have nothing to hide, stop being paranoid. And if you do have something to hide, I'll read about you in a week or so in a LEO bulletin.



I'm sure many in East Germany licked the boots of the Stasi as well.  Hey, if you've got nothing to hide you should love your slavery.  Disgusting.


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## Ikaruga (Aug 3, 2013)

These guys are the very best on the planet who have all the resources they need (or can think of) and also who are paid to read everything what's out there... so go figure.... they can probably read pretty much everything what's out there as a communication standard (most likely including stuffs like SSL and whatnot).. so perhaps the only thing what could keep them away (for a while) is something which you make for yourself and only share with the people who you want to communicate with... but that would make you even more suspicious


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## newtekie1 (Aug 4, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> Hey, if you've got nothing to hide you should love your slavery.



A lack of privacy is in no way even remotely close to slavery.


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## ShiBDiB (Aug 4, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> I'm sure many in East Germany licked the boots of the Stasi as well.  Hey, if you've got nothing to hide you should love your slavery.  Disgusting.



That is the most liberal and "disgusting" use of the word slavery I've seen in awhile.


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## MT Alex (Aug 4, 2013)

ShiBDiB said:


> That is the most liberal and "disgusting" use of the word slavery I've seen in awhile.



A sentiment probably shared by the lapdog thugs of Ceausescu.


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## Black Panther (Aug 4, 2013)

They can, but only if they want to.
No offence meant but probably you're not important enough for them......
Look at it this way, imagine the millions of texts sent daily, they won't be vetted all of them..
Unless you use certain words which might trigger their attention.


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## Kantastic (Aug 4, 2013)

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/nati...knocking-doors-because-google-searches/67864/

I have nothing to hide but I understand the importance of refusing to give up essential liberties.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 4, 2013)

Kantastic said:


> http://www.theatlanticwire.com/nati...knocking-doors-because-google-searches/67864/
> 
> I have nothing to hide but I understand the importance of refusing to give up essential liberties.


Also with such wide ranging surveillance going on and the ongoing black ops it's not hard to imagine it getting abused or just plain and simple sold .are we not entitled to privacy I graft my ass off , pay tax , buy shit and behave but resent such scrutiny.


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## McSteel (Aug 4, 2013)

You all may refuse to be watched, but you're not really manifesting your refusal, only your peaceful, silent protest. And it amounts to exactly nothing.

People can beat "the system". But the odds are not very good at all, because "the system" only needs to organize a couple tenths, hundreds, maybe even thousands of men and women. People need to organize in tens, hundreds of millions to be able to make a difference. I don't see it happening right now.

I suppose the majority needed for a drastic change to happen sadly choose to forfeit their need and right to privacy, in exchange for a sense of security. A false security they so desperately want to believe is real.

Take it from "the man" or get out on the street and yell real loud about it. Who knows, maybe several dozen millions of people will do the same.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 4, 2013)

the GOV in america likes to instill fear into the populace, so they can justify the more draconian security measures.


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## newtekie1 (Aug 4, 2013)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> are we not entitled to privacy



Of course you are entitled to privacy.  If you want privacy, live entirely off the grid.  If you want to use the infrastructure that was mostly paid for by the government, then you give up that privacy when using that infrastructure.


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## Kantastic (Aug 4, 2013)

McSteel said:


> You all may refuse to be watched, but you're not really manifesting your refusal, only your peaceful, silent protest. And it amounts to exactly nothing.
> 
> People can beat "the system". But the odds are not very good at all, because "the system" only needs to organize a couple tenths, hundreds, maybe even thousands of men and women. People need to organize in tens, hundreds of millions to be able to make a difference. I don't see it happening right now.
> 
> ...



tl;dr because Keeping up with the Kardashians is on, I want to know what Kim and Kanye named their baby.


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## McSteel (Aug 4, 2013)

newtekie1 said:


> Of course you are entitled to privacy. If you want privacy, live entirely off the grid. If you want to use the infrastructure that was mostly paid for by the government, then you give up that privacy when using that infrastructure.



Now let's not go justifying such invasions by calling them a price to be paid. I realize this is most probably just a cynical remark, but I need to reply nonetheless.

No matter the actual value of "keeping peace" and law + order, it's cost must never go beyond what they represent. Is it lawful for me to keep you under surveillance? Why should it be any different for any government or any authority?

On the other hand, the real enemy is giving real value to anything other than progress. We are artificially creating layers of society based on pieces of paper with pretty pictures on it. How did we get it so wrong? People do not need money. It is not an incentive, it is a blackmail. Every last one of us has done at least one productive thing at one point in our lives, completely free in every conceivable way. And we did it because we felt it was important, right, or simply because we liked it.

I would gladly spend my days contributing as a service tech in a science lab, for instance, or even as an astrophysics researcher (I actually study astrophysics...), without ever wanting any compensation. All I would want is my basic needs fulfilled (water, food, shelter, entertainment) and I would never want or need to feel above or below any other human being on this planet. We can all be equally important.

This is why they watch and try to control us. _They_ will not relinquish _their_ high ground of power easily anytime soon. The need to shape the world, or at least a small part of it, is an extension of the need for continued and meaningful existence.

I just wish everyone found a better way to do it. Like programming or space exploration. Or cooking or performing in a circus, just because they like it and they're good at it.


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## MT Alex (Aug 4, 2013)

newtekie1 said:


> Of course you are entitled to privacy.  If you want privacy, live entirely off the grid.  If you want to use the infrastructure that was mostly paid for by the government, then you give up that privacy when using that infrastructure.



Sorry Charlie, the government had very little to do with expansion of the infrastructure, unless you are speaking of Federal and Interstate highways or bridges, which I doubt you are.  The NTIA has a laughably small budget, as most branches of government should.


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## MightyMission (Aug 4, 2013)

This is an intriguing conversation! Though I do feel the knowledge of a perceived lack of privacy is an intellectual invasion, it is entirely true that by subscribing to the physical ownership of digital devices with an address of sorts to be tracked back to is indeed lending your information to be used "for your own good" should you cross the line and flag yourself to those that monitor said information.

Live off the grid and work cash in hand/farm the land is your only true option if you are dedicated in your conviction to gain the freedom that was never truly afforded to you from birth.

Coding messages is definitely flagging yourself as an object of attention though.

That's my perception of the recent revelations.


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## Jetster (Aug 4, 2013)

If your not doing anything and your parinoid about the gov watching you your being a little self important. On the other side a forensic computer examiner is not a bad job to get.


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## newtekie1 (Aug 4, 2013)

McSteel said:


> Now let's not go justifying such invasions by calling them a price to be paid. I realize this is most probably just a cynical remark, but I need to reply nonetheless.
> 
> No matter the actual value of "keeping peace" and law + order, it's cost must never go beyond what they represent. Is it lawful for me to keep you under surveillance? Why should it be any different for any government or any authority?
> 
> ...



I'm not calling it a price to be paid, I'm saying if the government paid to have the communication system you use built, then they can use it to spy on you all they want.  Just like they can pat you down and make you go through body scanners at the airport.  If you don't like it, don't fly, if you don't like the government spying on you then don't use the infrastructure they paid for.



MT Alex said:


> Sorry Charlie, the government had very little to do with expansion of the infrastructure, unless you are speaking of Federal and Interstate highways or bridges, which I doubt you are.  The NTIA has a laughably small budget, as most branches of government should.



Actually, they had a massive part in the expansion of the infrastructure.  Their massive subsidies to the Telco and Cable companies are what allowed most of the cabling to be laid and cell towers to be built that we use in the US.  As I said, they didn't build it, they just paid for most of it.


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## de.das.dude (Aug 4, 2013)

carrier pigeons. coor coor.


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## MT Alex (Aug 4, 2013)

newtekie1 said:


> Actually, they had a massive part in the expansion of the infrastructure.  Their massive subsidies to the Telco and Cable companies are what allowed most of the cabling to be laid and cell towers to be built that we use in the US.  As I said, they didn't build it, they just paid for most of it.



Actually, that's not accurate, again.  The USF's budget is once again much smaller than you are alluding to.  In fact, farming gets a monumentally larger portion of US subsidies.  Does that mean that the government should be in control of all the food as well?  

You are also forgetting that the government doesn't have any money of its own, it was all raised from taxes, or truth be told, borrowed from banksters.  The amount they paid came from us, not them.  So that train of thought still holds no water.


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## droopyRO (Aug 4, 2013)

de.das.dude said:


> carrier pigeons. coor coor.


They have *Global Hawk*s, not good for the pigeons


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## GreiverBlade (Aug 4, 2013)

Ikaruga said:


> These guys are the very best on the planet who have all the resources they need (or can think of) and also who are paid to read everything what's out there... so go figure.... they can probably read pretty much everything what's out there as a communication standard (most likely including stuffs like SSL and whatnot).. so perhaps the only thing what could keep them away (for a while) is something which you make for yourself and only share with the people who you want to communicate with... but that would make you even more suspicious



they are the very best, um why i take this part and the following as a huge joke bathed in sarcasme


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## Ikaruga (Aug 4, 2013)

GreiverBlade said:


> they are the very best, um why i take this part and the following as a huge joke bathed in sarcasme



The reality is not what you see in the media, and it's most likely going on a far larger scale than how you might imagine from the leaked-out bits and pieces. They probably have super-secret computational power and technology we have no idea about (secret military stuffs were always ahead of the world's "available" technology level), and they are also virtually have endless budget and resources and hundreds of high skilled hackers to do whatever they want to.. Don't forget that it's "defense" money we are talking about here, they are loaded beyond comprehension, especially now when countries and companies hacking each other on a daily bases just like how we eat breakfast every day.

I know this may sound like a conspiracy theory.. but I would be surprised if we would know more than 10 percent about what is really going on


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## GreiverBlade (Aug 4, 2013)

Ikaruga said:


> The reality is not what you see in the media, and it's most likely going on a far larger scale than how you might imagine from the leaked-out bits and pieces. They probably have super-secret computational power and technology we have no idea about (secret military stuffs were always ahead of the world's "available" technology level), and they are also virtually have endless budget and resources and hundreds of high skilled hackers to do whatever they want to.. Don't forget that it's "defense" money we are talking about here, they are loaded beyond comprehension, especially now when countries and companies hacking each other on a daily bases just like how we eat breakfast every day.
> 
> I know this may sound like a conspiracy theory.. but I would be surprised if we would know more than 10 percent about what is really going on



still i take that following as a huge joke mixed with sarcasme... endless budget super secret ... no wonder the financial state of those land who "suposedly" have access to that, is so good ... 

i wouldnt be surprised if the 90% we dont know is just make up and fraud to gather more money and charge people of imaginary guilt.

more or less i dont care about NSA and other of the like as they are merely "financial sink" that could be used more wisely. no i dont intent to give lessons ofc ... just my opinion.


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## Ikaruga (Aug 4, 2013)

GreiverBlade said:


> still i take that following as a huge joke mixed with sarcasme... endless budget super secret ... no wonder the financial state of those land who "suposedly" have access to that, is so good ...
> 
> i wouldnt be surprised iw the 90% we dont know is just make up and fraud to gather more money and charge people of imaginary guilt.
> 
> more or less i dont care about NSA and other of the like as they are merely "financial sink" that could be used more wisely. no i dont intent to give lessons ofc ... just my opinion.



I did not mean to speculate about possible long term strategic objectives and operations to control the world's economy (or whatever conspiracy theorist used to be afraid of), but actual secret military "cyber" operations and techniques you couldn't even link to the NSA let alone find the budget source or the responsible department or company. 
The Internet is an absolute must have essential ingredient of our everyday lives and it's pretty much owned by the U.S..... All that data is there, and waiting to be read, analyzed and modified as they see fit... I do think that it's ethically and morally wrong to do such things, but this is "war" after all, and it would be utterly stupid not to take advantage of such a strategic opportunity.


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## GreiverBlade (Aug 4, 2013)

Ikaruga said:


> I did not mean to speculate about possible long term strategic objectives and operations to control the world's economy (or whatever conspiracy theorist used to be afraid of), but actual secret military "cyber" operations and techniques you couldn't even link to the NSA let alone find the budget source or the responsible department or company.
> The Internet is an absolute must have essential ingredient of our everyday lives and it's pretty much owned by the U.S..... All that data is there, and waiting to be read, analyzed and modified as they see fit... I do think that it's ethically and morally wrong to do such things, but this is "war" after all, and it would be utterly stupid not to take advantage of such a strategic opportunity.



this time i agree.


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## newtekie1 (Aug 4, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> Actually, that's not accurate, again.  The USF's budget is once again much smaller than you are alluding to.  In fact, farming gets a monumentally larger portion of US subsidies.  Does that mean that the government should be in control of all the food as well?
> 
> You are also forgetting that the government doesn't have any money of its own, it was all raised from taxes, or truth be told, borrowed from banksters.  The amount they paid came from us, not them.  So that train of thought still holds no water.



Farming gets a much larger portion _now_, but when the telcos and cable companies were putting their networks in place, it was basically being entirely funded by the government.

And the reality is that WE don't have any money, the money we use is manufactured by the government.


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## MT Alex (Aug 4, 2013)

newtekie1 said:


> Farming gets a much larger portion _now_, but when the telcos and cable companies were putting their networks in place, it was basically being entirely funded by the government.
> 
> And the reality is that WE don't have any money, the money we use is manufactured by the government.



Um, the Federal Reserve isn't part of the government, so that notion of yours is just as misguided as your fabricated public funded communications network.


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## newtekie1 (Aug 4, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> Um, the Federal Reserve isn't part of the government, so that notion of yours is just as misguided as your fabricated public funded communications network.



Who said anything about the Federal Reserve?


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## MT Alex (Aug 4, 2013)

newtekie1 said:


> Who said anything about the Federal Reserve?



Well, if you don't know who manufactures the money, I'm finished


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## newtekie1 (Aug 4, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> Well, if you don't know who manufactures the money, I'm finished



Since it is obvious you don't know who manufactures*the money we use I suggest you look it up. I'll give you a hint, it isn't the Federal Reserve.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 4, 2013)

my suggestion is to run your own private email server. i have my own (postfix) and all email messages are encrypted using my very own 4092 bit RSA encryption algorithm before being sent out into the wild. it is up to the receiver to unencrypt the message using my program and they must do so offline. that really is the only way to avoid the NSA reading your messages since we have learned about XKeyscore.



newtekie1 said:


> Of course you are entitled to privacy.  If you want privacy, live entirely off the grid.  If you want to use the infrastructure that was mostly paid for by the government, then you give up that privacy when using that infrastructure.



according to the founder's explanation of the 4th amendment you are incorrect. even if all land is considering "owned by the government" the government does not have the right to spy on you unless their is a reasonable belief that you are a danger to society.


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## MT Alex (Aug 4, 2013)

newtekie1 said:


> Since it is obvious you don't know who manufactures*the money we use I suggest you look it up. I'll give you a hint, it isn't the Federal Reserve.



If you are referring to the mints, you have missed your aim once again.  They have zero control over the money value and supply, they just put ink on paper when told.  You bore me, unsubbed.


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## theonedub (Aug 4, 2013)

The government has, and is still providing a ton of subsidizes and grants for communication infrastructure. For example: Broadband Technology Opportunities Program (BTOP)-



> The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act provided the Department of Commerce’s National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) and the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Rural Utilities Service (RUS) with *$7.2 billion* to expand access to broadband services in the United States. Of those funds, the Act provided* $4.7 billion *to NTIA to support the deployment of broadband infrastructure, enhance and expand public computer centers, encourage sustainable adoption of broadband service, and develop and maintain a nationwide public map of broadband service capability and availability. NTIA will make all grant awards by September 30, 2010.



BTW, the Mints only make coins.


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## newtekie1 (Aug 4, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> If you are referring to the mints, you have missed your aim once again.  They have zero control over the money value and supply, they just put ink on paper when told.  You bore me, unsubbed.



So you are saying the entity the manufactures the money, puts it in circulation, and removes it from circulation has no control over the supply? Man, you have no clue.


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## newtekie1 (Aug 4, 2013)

theonedub said:


> BTW, the Mints only make coins.



Correct, the Department of Treasury, which the mint is part of, manufactures all US money and stamps.


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## erocker (Aug 4, 2013)

Wrong! Some dude named Jim prints money on the presses that the Department of Treasury has. Don't forget Jim.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 4, 2013)

always assume somebody is going to read what you write down or hear what you say.


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## GreiverBlade (Aug 4, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> always assume somebody is going to read what you write down or hear what you say.



totaly approved 

IE: Facebook isnt dangerous ... only stupidity is, not setting privacy options is one fail(tho its on a server and can be retrieved) and publishing anything and everything is another failure.

aka be innocent or look innocent or you gonna get spanked, oh wait ... nevermind


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 4, 2013)

GreiverBlade said:


> totaly approved
> 
> IE: Facebook isnt dangerous ... only stupidity is, not setting privacy options is one fail(tho its on a server and can be retrieved) and publishing anything and everything is another failure.
> 
> aka be innocent or look innocent or you gonna get spanked, oh wait ... nevermind



that's just the thing. if somebody tells you that you shouldn't worry if you have nothing to hide, just tell them that those who look the most innocent will be treated like criminals because their behavior is too good therefore they must be hiding something. just read a little history to see this is the case.


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## Ikaruga (Sep 6, 2013)

Yes, I know it was obvious, that's why I said it earlier: 





Ikaruga said:


> they can probably read pretty much everything what's out there as a communication standard (most likely including stuffs like SSL and whatnot)



but looks like they are indeed can read everything, including SSL  :





> Project Bullrun deals with NSA's abilities to defeat the encryption used in specific network communication technologies. Bullrun involves multiple sources, all of which are extremely sensitive." The document reveals that the agency has capabilities against widely used online protocols, such as HTTPS, voice-over-IP and Secure Sockets Layer (SSL), used to protect online shopping and banking.


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## brandonwh64 (Sep 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> always assume somebody is going to read what you write down or hear what you say.



This is the best post on the internet AT THIS MOMENT... NSA EAT THAT SHIT!


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## W1zzard (Sep 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> my suggestion is to run your own private email server. i have my own (postfix) and all email messages are encrypted using my very own 4092 bit RSA encryption algorithm before being sent out into the wild. it is up to the receiver to unencrypt the message using my program and they must do so offline. that really is the only way to avoid the NSA reading your messages since we have learned about XKeyscore.



they already have your server's root password from back when you ordered the server and received the "your server is setup" email. or entered it on the hosting company's website using an SSL session which they'll just pull out of storage and bruteforce

if you were smart enough to change your password, they'll just subpoena your hosting provider to give them physical access to the machine without you ever knowing

your proposed encryption isn't practical because basically nobody encrypts their email



Easy Rhino said:


> unless their is a reasonable belief that you are a danger to society.



proposing strange encryption schemes in an online community, under an alias, makes you an instigator? -> danger to society, here is your warrant, sir


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## Easy Rhino (Sep 6, 2013)

W1zzard said:


> they already have your server's root password from back when you ordered the server and received the "your server is setup" email. or entered it on the hosting company's website using an SSL session which they'll just pull out of storage and bruteforce
> 
> if you were smart enough to change your password, they'll just subpoena your hosting provider to give them physical access to the machine without you ever knowing
> 
> your proposed encryption isn't practical because basically nobody encrypts their email



this is a server in my house. only i know know the password and only i know where the encryption keys are. mail is encryped on the server and then transferred by tls . even if they were able to get onto the server they would only find encrypted messages and wouldn't have the keys since the encryption algorithm is a customized version of RSA. the t RSA shortcuts that the NSA has been using to crack encryption (according to the latest documents leaked) won't work.  of course my propesed solution is not practical but it is what it takes if you believe that the government's role isn't to collect data on people and listen in to the conversation or hack their mail accounts.



> proposing strange encryption schemes in an online community, under an alias, makes you an instigator? -> danger to society, here is your warrant, sir



you made my point. anyone who tries to protect their privacy is now viewed as a danger to society according to the US government.


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## W1zzard (Sep 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> this is a server in my house. only i know know the password and only i know where the encryption keys are. mail is encryped on the server and then transferred by tls



where do you send your mail and how can you ensure the receiving end is secure? or are you sending mail around in your basement only? 

even if you send your mail to your upstream mail provider using TLS, it will end up in the final receiver's inbox as cleartext via SMTP


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## Jetster (Sep 6, 2013)

Nobody wants to read your e mails


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## Easy Rhino (Sep 7, 2013)

W1zzard said:


> where do you send your mail and how can you ensure the receiving end is secure? or are you sending mail around in your basement only?
> 
> even if you send your mail to your upstream mail provider using TLS, it will end up in the final receiver's inbox as cleartext via SMTP



i agree, which is why people use my email service! it's just like lavabit where if you are a lavabit user and you want to communicate with something privately you get that person to also have a lavabit account.


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## Ikaruga (Sep 7, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> i agree, which is why people use my email service! it's just like lavabit where if you are a lavabit user and you want to communicate with something privately you get that person to also have a lavabit account.



I think Wizzard's point was that you do not have control over the computers of other people (regardless of the service they are using, even if that's happen to be your mail service), so you can't possibly protect any data on those machines.... hell,  you probably don't even have full control over your own machine when it comes to agencies like the NSA.


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## Easy Rhino (Sep 7, 2013)

Ikaruga said:


> I think Wizzard's point was that you do not have control over the computers of other people (regardless of the service they are using, even if that's happen to be your mail service), so you can't possibly protect any data on those machines.... hell,  you probably don't even have full control over your own machine when it comes to agencies like the NSA.



not true. companies like lavabit that provided encrypted email were protected which is why the NSA forced them to either give up their keys or to shutdown. you can have secure encrypted communication safe from government up to the point where they can apparently force you to turn over your keys. time to abolish the NSA.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 7, 2013)

I'm late to this conversation but, the best way to fool all kinds of surveillance is to speak in code.   Think using the Navajo language during WWII.

Even if they intercept the message (and they probably will) they won't know WTF it means and no computer is going to figure it out.


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## Ikaruga (Sep 7, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> not true. companies like lavabit that provided encrypted email were protected which is why the NSA forced them to either give up their keys or to shutdown. you can have secure encrypted communication safe from government up to the point where they can apparently force you to turn over your keys. time to abolish the NSA.



No, they would just need to brute force such communications with their super secret quantum shit, which is probably far more expensive and resource/time consuming than sending out a few agents and lawyers to the company who badly threatens them with 20 years of hard security prison if they are not in the "mood" to comply.

Also don't forget : 

most of the users do not have a secure environment, they mostly use Windows which is a closed source OS, and they also click on all kind of "unknown" things on a daily basis, and... 
They pretty much own the Internet, so what does the server in your basement worth if it's accessed (or not) on such a controlled network?

Please understand that this whole "violation of our privacy" issue is some serious evil stuff there indeed, but there is really nothing we can do about it, except letting everybody know all the times that *we do not like it at all*. 
We could of course also not use "their" Internet, but if we do, we must accept that we are not living in a perfect dream world, so we just have to "deal with it" like how it is now, I guess


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## Wrigleyvillain (Sep 7, 2013)

tigger said:


> the GOV in america likes to instill fear into the populace, so they can justify the more draconian security measures.



Can't really argue with that though let's not forget the UK is not far behind and London is like the most physically surveilled place on the planet.



Easy Rhino said:


> i agree, which is why people use my email service! it's just like lavabit where if you are a lavabit user and you want to communicate with something privately you get that person to also have a lavabit account.



Well...you know alot more about encryption methods and practices than I do but even so you trust your systems more than I would.


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## Sir B. Fannybottom (Sep 7, 2013)

Why are you trying to hide from the government? Are you a terrorist or something? This guy needs a freedom check. #homeofthefree


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## Ikaruga (Sep 7, 2013)

Sir B. Fannybottom said:


> Why are you trying to hide from the government? Are you a terrorist or something? This guy needs a freedom check. #homeofthefree



You are missing the point. It's not about hiding anything from the government, but about the ethical and moral basis of a healthy society. It's about right and wrong, and the "guilty until proven innocent" approach is definitely wrong in every way, even if it's needed because of a "war". It belongs to books and stories with a dark atmosphere like Orwell's 1984, and definitely not to our beautiful planet.

On the other hand, I believe that peacefully telling our opinions and talking about the subject in a civilized manner is the right way to counter such behaviours, and not by actively doing something against them (like making private mail servers in the basement and whatnot). I also don't think it's very smart to start a "fight" with the NSA on their home territory... you just make your life complicated and achieve zero. They are doing it on a purpose, because they have their orders, and nothing will stop them except new orders.

I have nothing to hide. I have a job, a family, friends, and I pay my taxes.. so they can read and store about me whatever they want or need to (i even use Gmail and Google all the time and I'm very satisfied with their service) ... but I still think it's very wrong and evil that they are spying on me


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## Fourstaff (Sep 7, 2013)

Sir B. Fannybottom said:


> Why are you trying to hide from the government? Are you a terrorist or something? This guy needs a freedom check. #homeofthefree



I am not terribly interested in letting NSA know what porn I jack off to. I certainly don't want people to know trade secrets off my email either (for example, they can theoretically tap the CFO of a big company and trade stock off the information they stole).


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## MT Alex (Sep 7, 2013)

Because I've been exposed to Mr. Fannybottom's  odd sense of humor, I'm pretty sure he was being facetious.  The sad thing is many express that sentiment genuinely, as though it makes them feel like they are a part of the winning team.


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## McSteel (Sep 8, 2013)

Yeah, I don't see how everyone could've missed that painfully obvious sarcasm...


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## Frick (Sep 8, 2013)

McSteel said:


> Yeah, I don't see how everyone could've missed that painfully obvious sarcasm...



I have encountered people on The Interwebz that really think like that. Yeah..


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