# New Ryzen 7 5800X3D low Cinebench R23 scores



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

CPU: Ryzen 7 5800X3D 
BIOS version: 1.2.0.6c (version 7C84v19) 
OS: Win 11 
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S (dual fans)
RAM: 2x16 GB G.Skill Ripjaws V DDR4-3600 CL14  
PC Case: Phanteks Eclipse P400A 
Motherboard: MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI 
GPU: EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 XC3 ULTRA GAMING  
PSU: Corsair HX750 CMPSU-750HX 750W 80 PLUS SILVER 


I've just installed my new Ryzen 7 5800X3D CPU, confirmed that the RAM XMP profile is enabled in the BIOS and that the latest AMD chipset drivers are installed.
However I noticed lower than expected Cinebench R23 scores,  avg 11,170. I've seen reviews such as HUB with scores around 14,000. Temperatures never go above 80 degrees during the benchmark runs.  Any idea what is going on?


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (May 19, 2022)

Did you change any other settings in BIOS such as core voltage or EDC/TDC?
Manually setting cpu supply lower than spec voltage drops my ones all core frequency considerably.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

dont whant to set it' said:


> Did you change any other settings in BIOS such as core voltage or EDC/TDC?
> Manually setting cpu supply lower than spec voltage drops my ones all core frequency considerably.


No nothing. Just loaded the RAM XMP profile.


----------



## oobymach (May 19, 2022)

You probably need to set PBO frequency offset +200 and adjust voltage curve in bios to get those scores.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

oobymach said:


> You probably need to set PBO frequency offset +200 and adjust voltage curve in bios to get those scores.


I can't find PBO anymore in the BIOS either under Overclocking/Advanced CPU configuration/AMD Overclocking or Overclocking/Advanced CPU configuration/AMD CBS.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> What is weird is that I can't find PBO anymore in the BIOS under Overclocking/Advanced CPU configuration/AMD Overclocking.



MSI has moved PBO out to the main CPU settings menu for awhile now. iirc should be just under main tweaker menu, maybe under Advanced CPU settings or something, can't remember exactly where on my Unify-X

1.2.0.6 BIOSes have been pretty buggy for most people. Wouldn't rule out just being a bad bios release, it's launch AGESA for X3D. Is there a 1.2.0.7 beta release for tomahawk yet?

What sort of effective clock in HWinfo are you hitting during Cinebench? 11000 is 6-core territory, clocks must be really low since 5800X3D isn't significantly cooler than 5800X and U12S is not that strong on 5800X


----------



## lowrider_05 (May 19, 2022)

There is no Overclocking for the 5800x3d so not even pbo


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> MSI has moved PBO out to the main CPU settings menu for awhile now. iirc should be just under main tweaker menu, maybe under Advanced CPU settings or something, can't remember exactly where on my Unify-X
> 
> 1.2.0.6 BIOSes have been pretty buggy for most people. Wouldn't rule out just being a bad bios release, it's launch AGESA for X3D. Is there a 1.2.0.7 beta release for tomahawk yet?
> 
> What sort of effective clock in HWinfo are you hitting during Cinebench? 11000 is 6-core territory, clocks must be really low since 5800X3D isn't significantly cooler than 5800X and U12S is not that strong on 5800X


Unf MSI doesn't have an 1.2.0.7 beta release yet for this MOBO (nothing on their Google Drive 1.2.0.7 BIOS folder yet URL: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1IKod5BkOPoR-T6Vg4htOApkwGNAfxFU_). I've raised a case with MSI just in case to check whether this might be caused by the BIOS.



lowrider_05 said:


> There is no Overclocking for the 5800x3d so not even pbo


Yes that's what I thought too.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> No nothing. Just loaded the RAM XMP profile.



New build or drop-in upgrade from another CPU? New Win 11 install? Lots of background programs at start?

Might want to just run some R23 while watching the HWinfo window for clocks/power to make sure package power and effective clock are roughly where they should be


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> New build or drop-in upgrade from another CPU? New Win 11 install? Lots of background programs at start?
> 
> Might want to just run some R23 while watching the HWinfo window for clocks/power to make sure package power and effective clock are roughly where they should be


Current system, just upgraded the CPU from the Ryzen 9 3900X to the Ryzen 7 5800X3D. Startup programs are kept to minimum. 
Right now I am at work, so when I get home I will monitor HWInfo values. Thnx.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Current system, just upgraded the CPU from the Ryzen 9 3900X to the Ryzen 7 5800X3D. Startup programs are kept to minimum.
> Right now I am at work, so when I get home I will monitor HWInfo values. Thnx.



If chipset drivers haven't updated new in the past week, the latest version seems a little buggy and throws tons of errors in install. First time didn't actually install properly so was slaughtering my 5900X clocks, had to reinstall. New CPU swap should have automatically wiped CMOS but doesn't hurt to make sure, if you updated to 1206c on 3900X. 

Worst case, could just reflash v19 BIOS while you wait for v20 with 1207


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> If chipset drivers haven't updated new in the past week, the latest version seems a little buggy and throws tons of errors in install. First time didn't actually install properly so was slaughtering my 5900X clocks, had to reinstall. New CPU swap should have automatically wiped CMOS but doesn't hurt to make sure, if you updated to 1206c on 3900X.
> 
> Worst case, could just reflash v19 BIOS while you wait for v20 with 1207


I will re-install the BIOS again when I go home to see if it helps.


----------



## Kissamies (May 19, 2022)

How about other benchmarks?


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

Lenne said:


> How about other benchmarks?


Didn't have time for any other ones as I had to come to work. I will run AIDA64 when I go home.


----------



## Kissamies (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Didn't have time for any other ones as I had to come to work. I will run AIDA64 when I go home.


Alright, just wondering that does it perform as it should in other benchmarks.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

Update: Enabled PBO in BIOS. Cinebench R23 multicore result still 11,198. Attached are screen caps of HWinfo64 during AIDA64 stress test and CInebench R23 run. Something seems really off.


----------



## Kissamies (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Update: Enabled PBO in BIOS. Cinebench R23 multicore result still 11,198. Attached are screen caps of HWinfo64 during AIDA64 stress test and CInebench R23 run. Something seems really off.


Try running 3dmark


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

Lenne said:


> Try running 3dmark


Will do and post results. After changing the power plan from "AMD High Performance" to "AMD Ryzen Balanced", now I got 14,100 on Cinebench R23.


----------



## Calenhad (May 19, 2022)

For reference FPS Review just posted a review and got 15k in R23, with similar enough hardware specs.

I don't see any boost happening in those screenshots. Core VID and core effective frequency never moved above base clock.


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Will do and post results. After changing the power plan from "AMD High Performance" to "AMD Ryzen Balanced", now I got 14,100 on Cinebench R23.


IIRC the Ryzen power profiles don’t apply to the 5000 series CPUs.

Try the standard windows power profiles and check the results.

You also might consider a fresh Windows install to start fresh with the latest chipset drivers.


----------



## Kissamies (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Will do and post results. After changing the power plan from "AMD High Performance" to "AMD Ryzen Balanced", now I got 14,100 on Cinebench R23.


Did it help? I have High Performance with 3600.


----------



## Calenhad (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Will do and post results. After changing the power plan from "AMD High Performance" to "AMD Ryzen Balanced", now I got 14,100 on Cinebench R23.


You actually shouldn't see any Ryzen power plans with up to date drivers and a 5000-series CPU. A clean install of the latest version of AMD drivers may be in order.


----------



## Chomiq (May 19, 2022)

Max frequency of 3.4 Ghz, max core voltage of 0.96V. Yeah something's off here.


Calenhad said:


> You actually shouldn't see any Ryzen power plans with up to date drivers and a 5000-series CPU. A clean install of the latest version of AMD drivers may be in order.


Yeah, 5000 series uses default windows powerplans.


----------



## QuietBob (May 19, 2022)

Here's what it should look like, about five minutes into R23:





Your MT score of 14100 seems in the ballpark, I get 14700 with this setup. It looks like your AMD High Performance power plan was throttling the CPU somehow.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> Here's what it should look like, about five minutes into R23:
> 
> View attachment 248026
> 
> Your MT score of 14100 seems in the ballpark, I get 14700 with this setup. It looks like your AMD High Performance power plan was throttling the CPU somehow.


With the default Windows Balanced profile, this is what I got during a Cinebench R23 run, with a final score of 13700.  Hitting 90 degrees Celsius is not ideal for sure.


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> With the default Windows Balanced profile, this is what I got during a Cinebench R23 run, with a final score of 13700.  *Hitting 90 degrees Celsius is not ideal for sure.*



Yep.  90c is throttle temp.  You might want to check cooler mounting or your thermal paste application.

Also, as @tabascosauz mentioned, make sure you clear CMOS completely.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> Yep.  90c is throttle temp.  You might want to check cooler mounting or your thermal paste application.
> 
> Also, as @tabascosauz mentioned, make sure you clear CMOS completely.


Once I get some free time I will reapply thermal paste and reseat the CPU cooler. Thnx for your feedback.


----------



## QuietBob (May 19, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> Yep. 90c is throttle temp. You might want to check cooler mounting or your thermal paste application.


I wouldn't blame the temps on either of those, TBH. It appears that the NH-U12S, even with dual fans, just doesn't have the cooling capacity to keep the CPU at bay with all core AVX loads. The 5800X3D is one hot puppy. I'm using the Assassin III on mine - arguably the most potent air cooler out there - and I'm only 5 degrees below junction temp with 25c room ambient. And the R23 isn't even the most demanding of synthetic loads


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (May 19, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> I wouldn't blame the temps on either of those, TBH. It appears that the NH-U12S, even with dual fans, just doesn't have the cooling capacity to keep the CPU at bay with all core AVX loads. The 5800X3D is one hot puppy. I'm using the Assassin III on mine - arguably the most potent air cooler out there - and I'm only 5 degrees below junction temp with 25c room ambient. And the R23 isn't even the most demanding of synthetic loads


Completely agree.  I was throwing a little optimism out there. 

I had a 5800x for a short time using the D15 and ran close to those same temps.  I swapped out for a 5950x and now run in the 50's and low 60's with R23.

For me, the performance of the standard 5800x wasn't worth the additional effort in cooling/tuning.  The x3d is a totally different situation - well worth the work.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> Completely agree.  I was throwing a little optimism out there.
> 
> I had a 5800x for a short time using the D15 and ran close to those same temps.  I swapped out for a 5950x and now run in the 60's and low 70's with R23.
> 
> For me, the performance of the standard 5800x wasn't worth the additional effort in cooling/tuning.  The x3d is a totally different situation - well worth the work.


Let's hope repasting and reseating the air cooler is enough.  Eise I might have to look for a new cooler, which might end up expensive.


----------



## QuietBob (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Let's hope repasting and reseating the air cooler is enough.  Eise I might have to look for a new cooler, which might end up expensive.


Unless you use your PC for production workloads, you should be fine with your current cooler. Games and most apps can't take advantage of all the threads, and they load the CPU in a different way than content creation software. Hopefully you won't see these high temps often.


----------



## GerKNG (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> I might have to look for a new cooler


this won't do anything.
your CPU cooler is not scorching hot and beyond it's capacity.
the heat is very concentrated in small nodes and now with a chunk of cache and extra diffusion barrier on top it barely reaches the IHS.


----------



## lowrider_05 (May 19, 2022)

This is mine (just for reference):


----------



## tabascosauz (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Update: Enabled PBO in BIOS. Cinebench R23 multicore result still 11,198. Attached are screen caps of HWinfo64 during AIDA64 stress test and CInebench R23 run. Something seems really off.



Are you running a fanless PC or something? SuperIO is only reporting a single system fan at 0 rpm. Your two fans on the U12S and case fans should all be on there and spinning. 

I recall reading somewhere about a 0rpm fan bug on Tomahawk. 

13700 pts with thermal throttling seems reasonable.


----------



## QuietBob (May 19, 2022)

lowrider_05 said:


> This is mine (just or reference):
> View attachment 248062


Those three 420mm rads are sure doing their job 
What temps do you get in R23?


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Are you running a fanless PC or something? SuperIO is only reporting a single system fan at 0 rpm. Your two fans on the U12S and case fans should all be on there and spinning.
> 
> I recall reading somewhere about a 0rpm fan bug on Tomahawk.
> 
> 13700 pts with thermal throttling seems reasonable.


0 RPM is for the motherboard chipset fan, The image was cropped. Here are the fan speeds on idle vs Cinebench R23 for reference.


----------



## freeagent (May 19, 2022)

If you do get a new cooler, look for something with 8mm heat pipes, those 6mm pipes are weaksauce


----------



## tabascosauz (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> 0 RPM is for the motherboard chipset fan



I see, further down.

Still, you don't use an AIO, and it's just a 0rpm PUMP header down there. Is it spinning and just the MSI bug, or...? I'm assuming that's the second fan on your U12S.


----------



## Chomiq (May 19, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I see, further down.
> 
> Still, you don't use an AIO, and it's just a 0rpm PUMP header down there. Is it spinning and just the MSI bug, or...? I'm assuming that's the second fan on your U12S.


Maybe he used splitter?


----------



## tabascosauz (May 19, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Maybe he used splitter?



I don't recall headers showing up as a sensor if there's nothing plugged into them. Could be wrong for CPU headers though.


----------



## Chomiq (May 19, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I don't recall headers showing up as a sensor if there's nothing plugged into them. Could be wrong for CPU headers though.


Doesn't show up on mine:


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

freeagent said:


> If you do get a new cooler, look for something with 8mm heat pipes, those 6mm pipes are weaksauce


Can you recommend one with 8mm heat pipes? I am looking at the Noctua NH-D15 (or Chromax Black edition) but I can't find it's heat pipe size in mm.


----------



## freeagent (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Can you recommend one with 8mm heat pipes? I am looking at the Noctua NH-D15 (or Chromax Black edition) but I can't find it's heat pipe size in mm.


Of course 

Thermalright FC140. You might be able to find one on Amazon, I bought mine from AliExpress the day it launched


----------



## tabascosauz (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Can you recommend one with 8mm heat pipes? I am looking at the Noctua NH-D15 (or Chromax Black edition) but I can't find it's heat pipe size in mm.



D15 is 6mm.









						Noctua NH-D15 - CPU Cooler Review
					

The Noctua NH-D15, is placed among the top air cooling systems on the market, offering a very good performance being silent at the same time.




					tech-legend.com
				




All the big 120mm/140mm Thermalright dual towers are beasts.


----------



## Chomiq (May 19, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Can you recommend one with 8mm heat pipes? I am looking at the Noctua NH-D15 (or Chromax Black edition) but I can't find it's heat pipe size in mm.


Before you go on a buying spree try to remount your cooler.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 19, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Before you go on a buying spree try to remount your cooler.


Yes I intent to do that once I get some free time.


----------



## Ripcord (May 19, 2022)

Doesn't seem that impressive TBH, my 5600 gets 11101 in R23 at less than half the price


----------



## lowrider_05 (May 19, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> Those three 420mm rads are sure doing their job
> What temps do you get in R23?


It gets hot even on Water:






Ripcord said:


> Doesn't seem that impressive TBH, my 5600 gets 11101 in R23 at less than half the price


well, you dont buy this CPU for Cinebench Highscores, its the Same Score as an underclocked 5800X the Vcache only helps in Games.


----------



## Durvelle27 (May 19, 2022)

I don't have a 5800X3D but I have a 5800X. I ran this for reference. CPU stock using a AIO


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (May 19, 2022)

@Antonis_35 
Core Voltage below 1 Volt!
Its gotta be the mb firmware the culprit.
I'll le edit this post in about 15 minutes, with a CB run by my rig, with CORE voltage of 1V, it'll score similar to yours.
Go manual , 1.2V to start, see if mb overvolts past the setting , then adjust accordingly for a result of 1.25Vcore. More than 1.25V high risk of degradation and or damage.


----------



## lowrider_05 (May 19, 2022)

@all Please do not recommend him to Overvolt or Overclock his 5800X3D. Because it is simply not supported on this chip, even if the settings were not hidden/disabled in the UEFI, it will do nothing at best!

This is the Statement from the Techpowerup review:


----------



## Durvelle27 (May 20, 2022)

dont whant to set it' said:


> @Antonis_35
> Core Voltage below 1 Volt!
> Its gotta be the mb firmware the culprit.
> I'll le edit this post in about 15 minutes, with a CB run by my rig, with CORE voltage of 1V, it'll score similar to yours.
> Go manual , 1.2V to start, see if mb overvolts past the setting , then adjust accordingly for a result of 1.25Vcore. More than 1.25V high risk of degradation and or damage.


Even your score seems low


----------



## Slash/ (May 20, 2022)

Over the past couple of days, I've been having the same issue with an R5 3600.  TL;DR - I had manually set the Vcore to 1.3V, just below Auto which is about 1.3125V, probably motivated by recently reading a post about undervolting being the new overclocking.  With a 5600X in my main system doing 4650 all core all day, on its own with PBO, I tend to agree.  So I thought I would experiment with the R5 3600, and in doing so I killed off ~15% of its performance.  Here it's back to Auto Vcore.  Note the undervolted performance is basically equal to R5 2600 4.1GHz @ 1.275V


----------



## Mussels (May 20, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Current system, just upgraded the CPU from the Ryzen 9 3900X to the Ryzen 7 5800X3D. Startup programs are kept to minimum.
> Right now I am at work, so when I get home I will monitor HWInfo values. Thnx.


This is a known problem - you may need a clean install (or at least an upgrade install) to fix the performance issues


----------



## Durvelle27 (May 20, 2022)

It's so weird because when I ran R23 I had multiple background apps running plus 100 tabs of chrome and still scored 15K


----------



## sam_86314 (May 20, 2022)

Not a 5800X3D, but here's my 5800X for reference.






I have a Noctua NH-U14S on it, and it peaked at 78C. I have it tuned more for single-threaded performance and "lower" temps.

I'm running a pretty old BIOS, though; version 4002 for my ASUS TUF mobo. It's from June 2021 and its AGESA version is 1.2.0.3A.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 20, 2022)

lowrider_05 said:


> @all Please do not recommend him to Overvolt or Overclock his 5800X3D. Because it is simply not supported on this chip, even if the settings were not hidden/disabled in the UEFI, it will do nothing at best!
> 
> This is the Statement from the Techpowerup review:
> View attachment 248088


I will not overclock or underclock this CPU. My only goal is to get the thermals under control so the CPU can perform at it's fullest.



Mussels said:


> This is a known problem - you may need a clean install (or at least an upgrade install) to fix the performance issues


What I've done so far is uninstall and re-install the latest AMD chipset drivers, switch to the Windows Balanced power plan. Later today I will re-install the latest MSI BIOS, repaste the CPU and re-seat the CPU cooler. If that doesn't fix it, then I might consider a clean Windows 11 install or just wait for MSI to release the 1.2.0.7 BIOS (whenever that is)


----------



## Taraquin (May 20, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Update: Enabled PBO in BIOS. Cinebench R23 multicore result still 11,198. Attached are screen caps of HWinfo64 during AIDA64 stress test and CInebench R23 run. Something seems really off.


Package power of 65W max, is eco mode active? That could explain a lot...


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 20, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Package power of 65W max, is eco mode active? That could explain a lot...


As explained in one of my follow up comments to that, the low scores were caused due to the AMD power plans. Once I switched to the Windows Balanced power plan, the Cinebench R23 scores reached 14,000+.


----------



## Taraquin (May 20, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> As explained in one of my follow up comments to that, the low scores were caused due to the AMD power plans. Once I switched to the Windows Balanced power plan, the Cinebench R23 scores reached 14,000+.


Missed that one, sorry. Apparently the powerplan set 65W limit, interesting.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 20, 2022)

I cleared the CMOS, repasted the CPU with ARCTIC MX-4 and re-seated the CPU cooler. Then enabled PBO on BIOS and XMP. Enabled the Windows Balanced profile and ran Cinebench R23. While the score was decent at 14,205 the CPU reached 90 degrees Celsius again. I've posted a picture of the CPU voltage values from the BIOS. Maybe something is off.


----------



## Durvelle27 (May 20, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> I cleared the CMOS, repasted the CPU with ARCTIC MX-4 and re-seated the CPU cooler. Then enabled PBO on BIOS and XMP. Enabled the Windows Balanced profile and ran Cinebench R23. While the score was decent at 14,205 the CPU reached 90 degrees Celsius again. I've posted a picture of the CPU voltage values from the BIOS. Maybe something is off.


temps seem right. As PBO on auto pumps a lot of voltage through the CPU. Even with my AIO I hit 90*C running R23 but I did hit a higher score as well I believe it allowed PBO to boost higher


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 20, 2022)

Durvelle27 said:


> temps seem right. As PBO on auto pumps a lot of voltage through the CPU. Even with my AIO I hit 90*C running R23 but I did hit a higher score as well I believe it allowed PBO to boost higher


What do you think about the CPU voltages?


----------



## CadeRox (May 20, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> I will not overclock or underclock this CPU. My only goal is to get the thermals under control so the CPU can perform at it's fullest.
> 
> 
> What I've done so far is uninstall and re-install the latest AMD chipset drivers, switch to the Windows Balanced power plan. Later today I will re-install the latest MSI BIOS, repaste the CPU and re-seat the CPU cooler. If that doesn't fix it, then I might consider a clean Windows 11 install or just wait for MSI to release the 1.2.0.7 BIOS (whenever that is)


I had same issue with my 5900x when I upgraded from 2700x, was getting 90 fps and low benchmark scores in games I used to be able to play better on a 2700x lol. what fully fixed these issues for me was clean installing windows. might want to give it a try.


----------



## Durvelle27 (May 20, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> What do you think about the CPU voltages?


On Auto Voltages will vary and can be much higher


----------



## HD64G (May 20, 2022)

CadeRox said:


> I had same issue with my 5900x when I upgraded from 2700x, was getting 90 fps and low benchmark scores in games I used to be able to play better on a 2700x lol. what fully fixed these issues for me was clean installing windows. might want to give it a try.


He corrected the problem with the windows power plans. He had Ryzen power plans previously that were made for Zen & Zen+ only and bugged the os behaviour.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 21, 2022)

CadeRox said:


> I had same issue with my 5900x when I upgraded from 2700x, was getting 90 fps and low benchmark scores in games I used to be able to play better on a 2700x lol. what fully fixed these issues for me was clean installing windows. might want to give it a try.


I've contacted MSI and they advised me to wait for the 1.2.0.7 BIOS. If that doesn't make a difference then maybe I'll have to do a clean install of windows.


----------



## CadeRox (May 21, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> I've contacted MSI and they advised me to wait for the 1.2.0.7 BIOS. If that doesn't make a difference then maybe I'll have to do a clean install of windows.


unless you have terrible wifi, you should probably fresh install windows when getting new parts anyways.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 21, 2022)

CadeRox said:


> unless you have terrible wifi, you should probably fresh install windows when getting new parts anyways.


I usually do a fresh install only after a full system upgrade i.e. replacing the motherboard and CPU. For single component upgrades such as RAM, and CPU (usually chipset driver is enough) I usually don't. And for GPU upgrades DDU is usually more than enough.



tabascosauz said:


> I see, further down.
> 
> Still, you don't use an AIO, and it's just a 0rpm PUMP header down there. Is it spinning and just the MSI bug, or...? I'm assuming that's the second fan on your U12S.


It's the motherboard fan. I figured it out a while ago using the software Fancontrol. The rpm value corresponds exactly as I ramp up the fan.



QuietBob said:


> Unless you use your PC for production workloads, you should be fine with your current cooler. Games and most apps can't take advantage of all the threads, and they load the CPU in a different way than content creation software. Hopefully you won't see these high temps often.


When gaming the CPU and GPU reach max 78 degrees Celsius. No stutters observed.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 25, 2022)

For anyone interested, MSI released their AGESA 1.2.0.7 beta BIOS for my MOBO, the MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI. I flashed it and immediately noticed PBO is missing. In Windows, with Balanced profile my Cinebench R23 scores have dropped to an avg of 13,800. No changes in cooling behavior as CPU temps still reach 90 degrees Celsius.  






Lenne said:


> Try running 3dmark


Here you go. This score is after applying the Windows Balanced Power profile, on AGESA BIOS 1.2.0.7 beta.


----------



## QuietBob (May 25, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> For anyone interested, MSI released their AGESA 1.2.0.7 beta BIOS for my MOBO, the MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI. I flashed it and immediately noticed PBO is missing. In Windows, with Balanced profile my Cinebench R23 scores have dropped to an avg of 13,800. No changes in cooling behavior as CPU temps still reach 90 degrees Celsius.
> View attachment 248755


Thanks for sharing your findings! I will put off updating my BIOS for now


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (May 25, 2022)

OS power profile unchanged for months , whatever I had it set to.
Had set 44.5 multi in bios , thus trading that 100MHz extra it can reach on auto in single thread to 4.55GHz. Changed bios since and may do a retest after I get rid of some WHEA's poping up at the moment..


----------



## Dr. Dro (May 25, 2022)

The 5800X3D does not support core overclocking, curve optimizer or PBO adjustment, so it being gone when this specific processor is installed is normal. Zen 3 as a whole also does not use or support the specific "AMD Ryzen optimized" power plans, these apply exclusively for Zen 2. The official guidance is to use "Balanced" plan on Windows and let the processor regulate itself. At 90 one is certainly experiencing throttling, the load temps should be kept below 80 if you want the processor to run at the highest clock averages possible, so consider investing in some cooling. Cheers


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 25, 2022)

Dr. Dro said:


> The 5800X3D does not support core overclocking, curve optimizer or PBO adjustment, so it being gone when this specific processor is installed is normal. Zen 3 as a whole also does not use or support the specific "AMD Ryzen optimized" power plans, these apply exclusively for Zen 2. The official guidance is to use "Balanced" plan on Windows and let the processor regulate itself. At 90 one is certainly experiencing throttling, the load temps should be kept below 80 if you want the processor to run at the highest clock averages possible, so consider investing in some cooling. Cheers


Yes performance improved much when I changed to the Windows Balanced power profile. The CPU only reaches 90 degrees Celsius during benchmark tests such as Cinebench R23. During gaming and other heavy tasks it never exceeds 80 degrees Celsius. In regards to investing in some better cooling, I am still contemplating whether to upgrade from my current setup, a dual fan Noctua NH-U12S, to a dual fan Thermalright FC140 Black (as recommended by another forum member).


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2022)

FC140 is the best air cooler I have used.. it’s great for zen 3.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 25, 2022)

freeagent said:


> FC140 is the best air cooler I have used.. it’s great for zen 3.


Glad to hear that. In my case though I am wondering whether it can give me improved results, i.e CPU temperatures under 85 degrees Celsius under heavy loads such as benchmarking. I think the 5800X3D is inherently hotter than the rest of the Zen3 lineup.


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Glad to hear that. In my case though I am wondering whether it can give me improved results, i.e CPU temperatures under 85 degrees Celsius under heavy loads such as benchmarking. I think the 5800X3D is inherently hotter than the rest of the Zen3 lineup.


Let those 8mm pipes do their magic 

My 5900X is boosting to 5150 with it,  she absorbs all 235w that my cpu puts out.


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (May 25, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Let those 8mm pipes do their magic
> 
> My 5900X is boosting to 5150 with it,  she absorbs all 235w that my cpu puts out.



You should consider a career in sales.


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> You should consider a career in sales.
> 
> View attachment 248795


Nice man, welcome to the club! Hopefully it works as well for you as it does for me!


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 25, 2022)

Unf for me I only found it in stock on Amazon.com, but I am in the EU. I can pay the standard shipping of 24 USD (+import taxes) and receive it in 1 month or pay 46 USD to get it here within 2 weeks...


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Unf for me I only found it in stock on Amazon.com, but I am in the EU. I can pay the standard shipping of 24 USD and receive it in 1 month or pay 46 USD to get it here within 2 weeks...
> 
> View attachment 248802


I bought mine from AliExpress


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 25, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I bought mine from AliExpress


Even worse


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Even worse
> View attachment 248803


Ouch!


----------



## Chomiq (May 25, 2022)

Two questions to OP:
- what is your use case for 5800X3D?
- what are your temps during actual use case?


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 25, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Two questions to OP:
> - what is your use case for 5800X3D?
> - what are your temps during actual use case?


To be honest my current cooler is fine for what I use my home PC for:

1) Running some Linux VMs 
2) Daily activities such as MS Office tasks and web browsing, watching video tutorials (IT or photography related), YouTube videos etc. 
3) Playing single player FPS, Action, isometric RPG and adventure games (though since I had kids I have less and less time to play )

When playing games the CPU doesn't exceed 80-83 degrees Celsius, but the fans noise is a bit annoying.


----------



## Chomiq (May 25, 2022)

Are you also ramping case fans with CPU temperature?


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 25, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Are you also ramping case fans with CPU temperature?


Yes I've set up custom graph profiles in the MSI BIOS for each fan. I've tried FanControl as well, with similar results. E.g CPU Temp graph from FanControl :


----------



## Chomiq (May 25, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Yes I've set up custom graph profiles in the MSI BIOS for each fan. I've tried FanControl as well, with similar results. E.g CPU Temp graph from FanControl :
> View attachment 248810


So either way if you want best temps on air you're stuck with NH-D15 because you're in EU (which puts you at around €105).


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 26, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> So either way if you want best temps on air you're stuck with NH-D15 because you're in EU (which puts you at around €105).


Unf it doesn't have enough clearance for my RAM:


----------



## BCB57 (May 26, 2022)

I recently upgraded to the 5800X3D, and based on my experience I strongly recommend you give "PBO2 Tuner" a try.  This is a neat little freeware app that allows you to apply negative Curve Optimizer (CO) settings to the CPU. 

In my case, and as also documented by someone else here -- 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/uigbv7
 -- applying negative CO settings significantly reduced temps while also slightly improving performance on Cinebench 23. I suggest you start with -30 on every core, then test (OCCT is great for this) and reduce the negative numbers for any cores that throw errors. I wound up with -30 on 5 of the 8 cores, -20 on my two best cores (per Ryzen Master) and -25 on one other core.

I'm using a good 240 AIO, but my CPU temperature would still shoot right up to 83C while running CB23 multicore.  After the PBO2 Tuner adjustment, it maxes out at 78C while delivering a score of 14,8XX vs 14,6XX previously.  Max VCORE during the test is about 1.17V instead of 1.26V.  More importantly, when running MSFS 2020 at 1440P UW (3840x1600) on high/ultra settings for extended periods, my CPU settles in the mid 70s instead of low 80s, with similarly reduced CPU voltage and no reduction in FPS. 

Please note:  The only downside here is that you'll need to redo the PBO2 Tuner settings every time the PC restarts or wakes from sleep.  Minor PITA but worth it for now.  Eventually I'm sure there will be a BIOS update that allows negative (and only negative) curve optimization or at least some form of undervolting.  I was hoping MSI's AGESA1.2.0.7 might offer this, but I guess it doesn't.... so I'm sticking with 1.2.0.6c for now.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 27, 2022)

BCB57 said:


> I recently upgraded to the 5800X3D, and based on my experience I strongly recommend you give "PBO2 Tuner" a try.  This is a neat little freeware app that allows you to apply negative Curve Optimizer (CO) settings to the CPU.
> 
> In my case, and as also documented by someone else here --
> 
> ...


I appreciate the advice, but I don't feel comfortable messing with this CPU yet. Maybe in a few months. For now I will find a way to improve the cooling situation. Thank you though.



QuietBob said:


> Thanks for sharing your findings! I will put off updating my BIOS for now


Regarding the lack of PBO in  AGESA 1.2.0.7 beta, I've contacted MSI support and they mentioned that there are no plans to add PBO back:


----------



## BCB57 (May 27, 2022)

Thanks for that info re: BIOS plans, or lack of same.  Odd that they would offer BLCK overclocking, with all its attendant risks, yet remove all ability to lower CPU voltage.  Oh well...


----------



## QuietBob (May 27, 2022)

According to another user they lowered all core boost clocks for the 5800X3D in the 1.2.0.7 beta. That should also mean lower temperatures in multithreaded loads. What cooler did you end up ordering?


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 27, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> According to another user they lowered all core boost clocks for the 5800X3D in the 1.2.0.7 beta. That should also mean lower temperatures in multithreaded loads. What cooler did you end up ordering?


Thermalright Frost Commander 140 BLACK (thanks to @freeagent). Confirmed with the manufacturer that it will fit. Temps didn't change, i.e 90 degrees during Cinebench R23.


----------



## BCB57 (May 27, 2022)

Interesting to review other users' HWiNFO64 data, so I'm posting mine as well.  Of note are the CPU voltages and temps compared to stock, and I attribute these differences to the negative Curve Optimization achieved with the PBO2 Tuner app.  FWIW I also lowered my power limits in BIOS by about 10%: PPT 128, TDC 86 and EDC 126, but these changes had no noticeable performance impact.  

The CB23 screenshot is a typical single run with a few background apps running, and the HWiFO 64 shot is after 5 minutes of back-to-back runs.  Am quite happy with the way this chip is performing now... just wish I could make these adjustments in BIOS vs an app that needs to reset every time PC wakes from sleep.


----------



## QuietBob (May 27, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Thermalright Frost Commander 140 BLACK


Do let us know how the new cooler performs when it arrives. Reviews for this model are scarce.


----------



## mstenholm (May 27, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> Do let us know how the new cooler performs when it arrives. Reviews for this model are scarce.


He just did……two posts up


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (May 27, 2022)

mstenholm said:


> He just did……two posts up



He hasn't received the cooler yet.  He was talking about the latest AGESA not making a difference in temp.

I did receive mine though (FC140).  Will be testing it on a 5950x this weekend.


----------



## mstenholm (May 27, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> He hasn't received the cooler yet.  He was talking about the latest AGESA not making a difference in temp.
> 
> I did receive mine though (FC140).  Will be testing it on a 5950x this weekend.


Ups. Let’s compare notes. My D15 and the 5950X I intent to put underneath in a test bench X470 board next week. Mine will be a pure BIOS adaptation to maximum all core speed under Linux with respect to a decent power uptake. I aim for less than 65 degree C. It’s a dual boot so I can run a simple bench for a reference number.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 27, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> Do let us know how the new cooler performs when it arrives. Reviews for this model are scarce.


I'll post an update once I receive it. Might take a few weeks though.  Hoping I see some measurable improvements.


----------



## HD64G (May 27, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> I'll post an update once I receive it. Might take a few weeks though.  Hoping I see some measurable improvements.


Just run Windows power shell and type *sfc /scannow*

Check again the performance after that.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 28, 2022)

HD64G said:


> Just run Windows power shell and type *sfc scannow*
> 
> Check again the performance after that.


No integrity errors. Benchmark results are the same.


----------



## Durvelle27 (May 28, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> No integrity errors. Benchmark results are the same.


Sfc scan doesn’t check integrity. It checks for corrupted files associated with Windows and repairs them if found


----------



## lowrider_05 (May 28, 2022)

BCB57 said:


> I recently upgraded to the 5800X3D, and based on my experience I strongly recommend you give "PBO2 Tuner" a try.  This is a neat little freeware app that allows you to apply negative Curve Optimizer (CO) settings to the CPU.
> 
> In my case, and as also documented by someone else here --
> 
> ...


WOW, Thanks for the tip. this really works!




By the way, you can type in -50 in the tool but it only applies the maximum of -30


----------



## lowrider_05 (May 28, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> A reason I buy intel, no PBO tool are whatever tweak tool needed, it just runs as expected right away, maybe lowering the Vcore a bit and that's about it.


I am not a fanboy at all, but your comment is totally useless here. Besides that you mentioned "lowering the Vcore" that is exactly what the PBO tool does, nothing else.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 28, 2022)

OK I couldn't resist and I used PBO2 Tuner. I set -30 on all cores. While the Cinebench R23 multi-core score didn't improve, at 14,064, the temps never exceeded 85 degrees Celsius. 
All CPU cores never boosted above 4.3 GHz.


----------



## lowrider_05 (May 28, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> OK I couldn't resist and I used PBO2 Tuner. I set -30 on all cores. While the Cinebench R23 multi-core score didn't improve, at 14,064, the temps never exceeded 85 degrees Celsius.
> All CPU cores never boosted above 4.3 GHz.
> 
> View attachment 249126View attachment 249127


I still think, you have to little cooling on this CPU for best performance you should be able to stay under 80C or else the CPU will reduce clocks.


----------



## Dr. Dro (May 28, 2022)

Regarding the maximum achievable negative curve optimizer adjustment - the further possible the range of negative PBO adjustment, the looser the processor's binning is. This is inversely proportional to how "golden" the processor is, and tends to become stricter and stricter as the processor's grade increases. For the 5950X specifically, which has many cores and the most aggressive v/f curve out of the box next to any other SKU, your curve optimizer range should be extremely narrow, up to -5, really. My specific sample can do an all-core of -2, without applying scalar multiplier or extra frequency range. -3 will result in WHEA BSODs at random, even if applied just to the cores identified as the best.



Antonis_35 said:


> OK I couldn't resist and I used PBO2 Tuner. I set -30 on all cores. While the Cinebench R23 multi-core score didn't improve, at 14,064, the temps never exceeded 85 degrees Celsius.
> All CPU cores never boosted above 4.3 GHz.
> 
> View attachment 249126View attachment 249127



This isn't a bad all-core result, the boost rating is for a single thread and that's a 4.5 for the X3D. Your processor is operating as intended, perhaps it just isn't as fast as you hoped it would be. These are my daily settings, I am limited by EDC (the 190 A rating for the B550-E Strix is too low to allow this processor to fully flex its muscles), and I get in this benchmark around 4.35 GHz on all 32 threads. R23 uses AVX, so this isn't bad at all, if I had a better motherboard, I could maybe get 5% more out of this CPU at the same settings... aka not worth the bother. Just enough to break the 30000 points barrier and massage ego a bit, but in practice, since most applications and games don't go this hard on all threads, the performance is entirely adequate.


----------



## Antonis_35 (May 28, 2022)

lowrider_05 said:


> I still think, you have to little cooling on this CPU for best performance you should be able to stay under 80C or else the CPU will reduce clocks.


The Thermalright FC140 Black is supposed to arrive by June 14th.


----------



## Antonis_35 (Jun 7, 2022)

Update:
Received and installed the Thermalright FC140 Black. Overall really happy with it. 36-42 degrees Celsius during very low system usage, and much quieter.  
With PBO2 Tuner custom settings (see below), temperature never exceeds 80 degrees Celsius during Cinebench R23. CPU multi-core scores around 14,500-14,800.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 7, 2022)

That’s a lot of -30s.. nice cpu


----------



## Antonis_35 (Jun 7, 2022)

freeagent said:


> That’s a lot of -30s.. nice cpu


Thnx again for the recommendation to buy the Thermalright FC140 Black.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 7, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> Thnx again for the recommendation to buy the Thermalright FC140 Black.


Anytime! Glad it worked out well for you


----------



## QuietBob (Jun 8, 2022)

Antonis_35 said:


> With PBO2 Tuner custom settings (see below), temperature never exceeds 80 degrees Celsius during Cinebench R23. CPU multi-core scores around 14,500-14,800.


I tried PBO2 Tuner with -30 CO on all cores, leaving PPT/TDC/EDC at default. A single MT R23 run showed 4450 MHz on all cores and resulted in 15,100 points. Core voltage peaked at 1.163v, while maximum temperature reached 74c with 25c room ambient.

There's a really helpful guide here on how to make these PBO2 tweaks permanent.


----------



## Rem NL (Jun 22, 2022)

Does PBO2 Tuner work on any motherboard? I cant find anything in the readme file.


----------



## Antonis_35 (Jul 4, 2022)

Rem NL said:


> Does PBO2 Tuner work on any motherboard? I cant find anything in the readme file.


Yet it should. However depending on your Motherboard, vendors have started releasing Beta BIOS which include the Kombo Strike utility for the Ryzen 7 5800X3D, which enables overclocking and Core Offset Voltage.


----------

