# Is upgrading i7 7820X to i9 9900X or i9 9920X worth it?



## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

I have been thinking about upgrading my CPU.  Right now...EVGA X299 FTW-K with i7 7820X (8 core).  I have been thinking about either 10 Core (i9-9900X) or 12 Core (i9-9920X).  I can get a 9900X for $549 or the 12 Core for $599.  Basically in benchmarks...they are the same as the 7820X for single core...but in multi core...the 9900X is about 23% faster and the 9920X is about 27% faster....In 3D mark Firestrike Physics...my 7820X does about 20,600.  The 9900X will do 28,800 and the 9920X will do about 30,000.  Is any of this worth the upgrade...Only other caviat...the top temp the 7820X does before throttle is 99C, where the newer ones do 92C.  One major advantage to the newer 9x gen is that they are soldered vs thermal paste on the 7820X.  Overall...I like my processor.  at 4.3 GHZ overclock...I keep the voltage under 1.2 (1.17) and the temps never go over 78 with Cinebench. 

Input appreciated...thanks


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## cucker tarlson (Oct 31, 2019)

gaming no.productivity no.benchmark scores yes.
if 8c/16t is not enough for what you do,10/20 is not gonna cut it either,you need a 14/16 core cpu.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Oct 31, 2019)

My suggestion is to either delid the current CPU and push it further on a better cooling solution - or to swap platform and move to zen2 instead, there's not much point owning X299 if you can't leverage the benefits of quad channel, more lanes and the more cores in the case of the 7940X upwards.


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## EarthDog (Oct 31, 2019)

I dont see the point in your upgrade unless you can actually UTILIZE all the cores. You didnt mention how you use your PC....so only you know that answer. 



Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> My suggestion is to either delid the current CPU and push it further on a better cooling solution - or to swap platform and move to zen2 instead, there's not much point owning X299 if you can't leverage the benefits of quad channel, more lanes and the more cores in the case of the 7940X upwards.


Yikes.. that's a lot of jack to move platforms (for what gains?).... at minimum new cpu and mobo (versus just a cpu here)... hope the ram works or that adds to the cost too.


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## thesmokingman (Oct 31, 2019)

No point in upgrading unless you got money to burn. Delid that thing and run it at 5gz!



Bobmitmen said:


> but in multi core...



If multi core is important, ideally you're on the wrong architecture/platform.


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

Pretty much...I use multi core with Adobe Premiere and Photoshop...some other apps have multi core support...but I get what you are saying...I have thought about delidding...just don't think I am capable on my own.  Would have to send it out...something to ponder...

Thanks all!


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## phanbuey (Oct 31, 2019)

i had this same dilemma... i have a delid kit if you want it.

I ended up downgrading to an 8700k because it was roughly the same in my daily tasks (sitting at 5.1Ghz) and was much faster /cooler/quieter for games - also I ended up getting it pretty cheap on ebay.

For now your best bet is to just hold.  The performance difference doesn't warrant a platform switch in any direction.  The only worthwhile upgrade path would be a 3900x -> 4900x/4950x (sell the 3900x).


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## thesmokingman (Oct 31, 2019)

Bobmitmen said:


> Pretty much...I use multi core with Adobe Premiere and Photoshop...some other apps have multi core support...but I get what you are saying...I have thought about delidding...just don't think I am capable on my own.  Would have to send it out...something to ponder...
> 
> Thanks all!



Its super simple with the delidding tool. PM me if you want mine.

Also, with Adobe the NV gpu makes more difference with gpu acceleration.


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## EarthDog (Oct 31, 2019)

Bobmitmen said:


> Pretty much...I use multi core with Adobe Premiere and Photoshop...some other apps have multi core support...but I get what you are saying...I have thought about delidding...just don't think I am capable on my own.  Would have to send it out...something to ponder...
> 
> Thanks all!


If you can utilize the cores and threads, either wait for 10th gen and get the $670 12c/24t if there is a decent bump over 9th gen... or get cheaper 12c/24t 9th gen. 

If you go amd, you have an upgrade path... but it costs a lot more to get into the platform than just dropping a chip in now and upgrading in a couple of years. I dont see switching to amd being worth it.


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## phanbuey (Oct 31, 2019)

It just sounds like an upgrade itch from a 2 year old chip.


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## thesmokingman (Oct 31, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> If you can utilize the cores and threads, either wait for 10th gen and get the $670 12c/24t if there is a decent bump over 9th gen... or get cheaper 12c/24t 9th gen.
> 
> If you go amd, you have an upgrade path... but it costs a lot more to get into the platform than just dropping a chip in now and upgrading in a couple of years. I dont see switching to amd being worth it.



It doesn't cost more if he sells the old stuff. In fact, the old cpu and board should more than cover a new MB, leaving a cheaper 3900x to buy. If it were me I'd do it but it is somewhat of pain selling so I never brought it up till now. That said, the gpu will be more important than a couple more cores that won't add a ton to his multi core ipc.


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## EarthDog (Oct 31, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> It doesn't cost more if he sells the old stuff. In fact, the old cpu and board should more than cover a new MB, leaving a cheaper 3900x to buy. If it were me I'd do it but it is somewhat of pain selling so I never brought it up till now. That said, the gpu will be more important than a couple more cores that won't add a ton to his multi core ipc.


he can offset the cost, sure, but I still dont see the point...


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> i had this same dilemma... i have a delid kit if you want it.
> 
> I ended up downgrading to an 8700k because it was roughly the same in my daily tasks (sitting at 5.1Ghz) and was much faster /cooler/quieter for games - also I ended up getting it pretty cheap on ebay.
> 
> For now your best bet is to just hold.  The performance difference doesn't warrant a platform switch in any direction.  The only worthwhile upgrade path would be a 3900x -> 4900x/4950x (sell the 3900x).



 Much appreciated...I have been building my own systems for quite a while now.  Nothing makes me unsure, except delidding.  The thought of nuking the processor makes me queasy.  Silicon Lottery is just south of Houston, TX.  I live in the Dallas area...and he charges $59 with a one year warranty that the work is done correctly.  I may check into that.  Thank you very much for the offer...


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## dgianstefani (Oct 31, 2019)

LMAO $60 for a job that can be done with a dishcloth and a vice


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> If you can utilize the cores and threads, either wait for 10th gen and get the $670 12c/24t if there is a decent bump over 9th gen... or get cheaper 12c/24t 9th gen.
> 
> If you go amd, you have an upgrade path... but it costs a lot more to get into the platform than just dropping a chip in now and upgrading in a couple of years. I dont see switching to amd being worth it.



That was my original thought.  The new generation actually has higher boost clocks and more.  The price shouldn't be much more than the 9th gen...now that the 9th gen prices are coming way down.  I really like the X299.  My motherboard is solid as a rock and the quad channel memory is blazing fast.   Will wait to see how that shakes out...



dgianstefani said:


> LMAO $60 for a job that can be done with a dishcloth and a vice



Yeah...but with my luck...


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## thesmokingman (Oct 31, 2019)

Bobmitmen said:


> That was my original thought.  The new generation actually has higher boost clocks and more.  The price shouldn't be much more than the 9th gen...now that the 9th gen prices are coming way down.  I really like the X299.  My motherboard is solid as a rock and the quad channel memory is blazing fast.   Will wait to see how that shakes out...



Seeing as I'm the only one here who has a 7820x@5ghz and a 3900x.

7820x delidded 5ghz vs stock 3900x









						Result
					






					www.3dmark.com
				




Compare that with a 3900x with a standard 4.3ghz all core overclock. I normally just run stock and let boost go where it may. However the 10004 agesa allows me to clock per CCX making it another handful of % points faster than simply running an all core oc. Btw, cannot compare the link below due to diff gpu. but check out the physics score.









						I scored 7 591 in Fire Strike Ultra
					

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, AMD Radeon VII x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




					www.3dmark.com


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## phanbuey (Oct 31, 2019)

Do a timespy run  if possible - it's a bit easier to see when you're not scoring a zillion points.

This was me at 4.7Ghz i think a tweaked 3900x can hit just above 13K.







@thesmokingman can you tell a difference between the two systems when using/gaming  // is it worth to upgrade to 3900x?


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> Seeing as I'm the only one here who has a 7820x@5ghz and a 3900x.
> 
> 7820x delidded 5ghz vs stock 3900x
> 
> ...



Physics score from Ryzen about 33% faster than my 7820X.. About 16% faster than yours.  Actually the 7820X delidded and running at 5.0 GHZ is pretty impressive...I would consider Ryzen if I had more $$$


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 31, 2019)

Dont bother, wait 2 more cpu cycles from Intel or go to Threadripper


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## thesmokingman (Oct 31, 2019)

I scored 10 478 in Time Spy
					

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, AMD Radeon VII x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




					www.3dmark.com
				




4.3ghz, though I should preface these are pre 1.003 agesa iirc.



Bobmitmen said:


> Physics score from Ryzen about 33% faster than my 7820X.. About 16% faster than yours.  Actually the 7820X delidded and running at 5.0 GHZ is pretty impressive...I would consider Ryzen if I had more $$$



Yea, agree. If you have the cooling a delidded highly clocked 7820x can get you by.



phanbuey said:


> @thesmokingman can you tell a difference between the two systems when using/gaming  // is it worth to upgrade to 3900x?



With the 7820x at 4.8ghz daily, I had no issues gaming. But I always had limits to how much workload I could throw at the system. I could not do more than 2 heavy tasks and when pushing it hard hell the temps start to get stupid. Systems both share same setup, literally same everything except cpu/mb. My trident z's drop right into the ryzen board, etc etc. I would be playing like D3 windowed for example and running a mediacoder session underneath whilst watching youtube in a browser. This caused issues as there was not enough juice left to keep youtube/browaer from skipping or stalling out. I had a few annoyance type limiting issues like that. With the 3900x, I can get away with throwing double the load at it. It's kind of shocking until you do it yourself.


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> I scored 10 478 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, AMD Radeon VII x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> ...



I can do 4.3 GHZ without delidding and keeps the voltage under 1.2.  When I go to 4.6, voltage goes to 1.27 and temps will hit 90C+ using Cinebench.  When I got this...the recommendation was to either delid or keep under 1.2 volts for best temps and performance.  I read the earlier thread about Threadripper...but again $$$ limits me right now.  Maybe keep saving and see where Q1 of next year gets me...

Thanks all!


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## EarthDog (Oct 31, 2019)

Bobmitmen said:


> I can do 4.3 GHZ without delidding and keeps the voltage under 1.2.  When I go to 4.6, voltage goes to 1.27 and temps will hit 90C+ using Cinebench.  When I got this...the recommendation was to either delid or keep under 1.2 volts for best temps and performance.  I read the earlier thread about Threadripper...but again $$$ limits me right now.  Maybe keep saving and see where Q1 of next year gets me...
> 
> Thanks all!


1.2V is incredibly conservative. That said you are temp limited anyway, but note that 90C during stress testing is perfectly fine... so why not run the faster clocks?


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

BTW...some system specs:

EVGA X299 FTW K
i7 7820X @ 4.3 GHZ (1.17V)
EVGA RTX 2080TI XC Black
EVGA CLC 280 AIO Cooler
32 GB Gskill Ripjaws V DDR4-3200 (15-15-35)
Samsung 512GB 960 Pro NVMe
Creative SoundBlaster Z
Corsair HX 850i
Corsair Obsidian 750D Case


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## EarthDog (Oct 31, 2019)

Bobmitmen said:


> BTW...some system specs:
> 
> EVGA X299 FTW K
> i7 7820X
> ...


dump that in your system specs...


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> 1.2V is incredibly conservative. That said you are temp limited anyway, but note that 90C during stress testing is perfectly fine... so why not run the faster clocks?



I'll give it a shot...


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## phanbuey (Oct 31, 2019)

1.18 - 1.2v is a sweet spot for 7820x (mine was 1.19 v for 4.7ghz) any more past that without delidding and the avx will light that thing on fire.

You need dynamic voltage and an aggressive (-4 AVX / AVX 512) offset to go above that or you will throttle during FPU load.  You should be able to run 4.7ghz @1.2 with a dynamic volt adjust to like 1.12 4.4Ghz during avx.

I would think you're easily able to stay stable on a 7820x with 1.2v around 4.6 - 4.7ghz.

Also i can help you tweak your ram for skx - makes even a bigger difference than OC.  VCC IO/SA to 1.1v then 1.4v on the ram and try for 3600 16-17-17-38 on your sticks set trfc @ 400


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> 1.18 - 1.2v is a sweet spot for 7820x (mine was 1.19 v for 4.7ghz) any more past that without delidding and the avx will light that thing on fire.
> 
> You need dynamic voltage and an aggressive (-4 AVX / AVX 512) offset to go above that or you will throttle during FPU load.  You should be able to run 4.7ghz @1.2 with a dynamic volt adjust to like 1.12 4.4Ghz during avx.
> 
> ...



I'll take a few photos in bios setup to show the settings...will post back



phanbuey said:


> 1.18 - 1.2v is a sweet spot for 7820x (mine was 1.19 v for 4.7ghz) any more past that without delidding and the avx will light that thing on fire.
> 
> You need dynamic voltage and an aggressive (-4 AVX / AVX 512) offset to go above that or you will throttle during FPU load.  You should be able to run 4.7ghz @1.2 with a dynamic volt adjust to like 1.12 4.4Ghz during avx.
> 
> ...



OK...here are the two main screens in my bios.  Thoughts?


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## phanbuey (Oct 31, 2019)

Change manual per core  to all core.  Lock vcore to 1.17 (+.01mv over what you have) and put everything to 46, put mesh ratio to 30 and reboot, you should be stable...

Post back if yes?

If that's stable and your house isn't aflame then we move to mem tweaking (this is where the big gains are).  Finally, you can make an HT OFF profile for games... you will most likely be able to easily run 4.8 to 4.9 ghz with decent temps @ 1.299v HT OFF (if you have a good chip you can run 5Ghz here) which will boost your game FPS and Adobe performance to ridiculous levels.


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

OK.  BTW...the choices under voltage are:

Auto:  Bios Default
Override:  Static Voltage
Adaptive:  Allows manual changes to voltage, but will keep voltage lower under less load.


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## phanbuey (Oct 31, 2019)

Bobmitmen said:


> OK.  BTW...the choices under voltage are:
> 
> Auto:  Bios Default
> Override:  Static Voltage
> Adaptive:  Allows manual changes to voltage, but will keep voltage lower under less load.



Start with override, static.

Once that is stable u can move to  adaptive to make it run cold under idle.  Adaptive is hard to nail on the first go around, but if you know that you're stable at like 1.16/1.17 as a baseline it makes it easier to get the adaptive amount right (it's usually an offset that moves around with multiplier/frequency like stock + or - mv).


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

Did static at 1.17.  Mesh 30 Don't have an all core...but the way I have it set up...when it changes one...changes all.  Set to 46 on all cores...and ran Cinebench 20.  Old score 4514, new score 4742.  Hottest core was #3 at 78C.  Gonna try 4.7 and 4.8 now.  Back in a few

4.7 Froze Cinebench 20 up about 1/3 the way through.


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## phanbuey (Oct 31, 2019)

Post your Cinebench R23 Score
					

I'm using HP's Z400 motherboard so I haven't got much headroom for overclocking, and no voltage adjustment so I've only got 1.2v to play with on this board - max I can get it to with 1.2v is 3.8Ghz and is stable in games and most benchmarks but long prime 95 crunching and !BLAM! BSOD!  The CB...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




these are my old settings on CB - most of the score is from ram tweaks.



Bobmitmen said:


> 4.7 Froze Cinebench 20 up about 1/3 the way through.



that sounds about right... i needed 1.19v (auto) on 4.7 to be stable -  i wouldn't load above 82C on CB, as even with an offset that will put your avx load close to 92C.  I would keep it @ 4.6 1.17v without delid, you're very likely stable there; every chip is different but it's way easier to stabilize at 4.6.  also the difference between 4.6 and 4.7 is a whopping 2%, which is basically nothing.

I do have the delid kit AND a die guard so you dont have to relid.





then you could hit 5 ghz pretty easily... just in case u change ur mind.

BTW u can test AVX quick with AIDA the FPU 32 and FP64 raytracers in the benchmark section will run it and you can tell if you're throttling right away.  You probably will without auto voltage, since all the offset will do is lower clocks and keep volts the same.


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> Post your Cinebench R23 Score
> 
> 
> I'm using HP's Z400 motherboard so I haven't got much headroom for overclocking, and no voltage adjustment so I've only got 1.2v to play with on this board - max I can get it to with 1.2v is 3.8Ghz and is stable in games and most benchmarks but long prime 95 crunching and !BLAM! BSOD!  The CB...
> ...



OK...got 4.7 stable at 1.19, but temps really shot up into the 80's.  Problem is that in Texas, summers get really hot and temps will be hotter.  You are probably correct about 4.6 @ 1.17.


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## phanbuey (Oct 31, 2019)

Bobmitmen said:


> OK...got 4.7 stable at 1.19, but temps really shot up into the 80's.  Problem is that in Texas, summers get really hot and temps will be hotter.  You are probably correct about 4.6 @ 1.17.



Oh I know, I live 2~3 hours away from you 

The good news is skx is like ryzen where it really cares about ram almost more than frequency, I was beating 4.9ghz chips in some benches and games with a bit of latency tuning.  (not in cinebench, but Timespy/3dmark etc.) 

Check this out:





						Skylake X Memory Benchmarks
					

Before investing in this platform I am trying to figure out how the memory scaling is on the X299 platform with the new skylake X i9 chips.  Which I believe behave differently to the previous gen.  I can't find any benchmarks that compare say 3200 vs 4000 ram etc,  and how that effects apps etc...




					forums.overclockers.co.uk


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> Post your Cinebench R23 Score
> 
> 
> I'm using HP's Z400 motherboard so I haven't got much headroom for overclocking, and no voltage adjustment so I've only got 1.2v to play with on this board - max I can get it to with 1.2v is 3.8Ghz and is stable in games and most benchmarks but long prime 95 crunching and !BLAM! BSOD!  The CB...
> ...



FP32 did 23821
FP63 did 13207

Couldn't tell throttling...but my CLC280 AIO fans ramped up pretty quickly...

I would delid...but I have never done that kind of thing before.  I have repasted my video card...and such...but never delid...


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## phanbuey (Oct 31, 2019)

Bobmitmen said:


> FP32 did 23821
> FP63 did 13207
> 
> Couldn't tell throttling...but my CLC280 AIO fans ramped up pretty quickly...
> ...



EDIT: mb just updated my version - you're fine.,.. those scores look great.


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## Bobmitmen (Oct 31, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> EDIT: mb just updated my version - you're fine.,.. those scores look great.



Trying to play with Adaptive power setting.  Unfortunately, it starts at 1.20 and can be adjusted.  What I need to figure out is how to keep the processor around 1.17 on Adaptive...so the CPU will power down when idle.


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## thesmokingman (Nov 1, 2019)

Bobmitmen said:


> Trying to play with Adaptive power setting.  Unfortunately, it starts at 1.20 and can be adjusted.  What I need to figure out is how to keep the processor around 1.17 on Adaptive...so the CPU will power down when idle.



That's what the offset is for, choose + or -.


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## Bobmitmen (Nov 1, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> That's what the offset is for, choose + or -.



Got a response back from EVGA.  They believe that a solid overclock starts with 1.200  Offset won't work past probably .05


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## thesmokingman (Nov 1, 2019)

Bobmitmen said:


> Got a response back from EVGA.  They believe that a solid overclock starts with 1.200  Offset won't work past probably .05



lol... is this like their excuse for not implementing offset??


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## phanbuey (Nov 1, 2019)

yah i read that mobo manual. bizzare


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