# Microsoft Surface with Windows 8 RT Priced, Starts at $499



## btarunr (Oct 16, 2012)

Microsoft put price tags on some of its most important upcoming products, Surface with Windows 8 RT. The prices were revealed by Microsoft Store US, and covers three models based on storage capacity and Touch Cover (cover with keyboard and trackpad). The lineup starts at US $499 with Surface 32 GB without Touch Cover. For $599, you get the same model, with the Touch Cover. Leading the pack is Surface 64 GB with Touch Cover, priced at $699. The store is accepting pre-orders for all available color options of Surface and Touch Cover. Orders will delivered as early as by October 26.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Kreij (Oct 16, 2012)

You forgot to put in that the 64GB w/TC is $699


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## Octavean (Oct 16, 2012)

Interesting,….

The entry level iPad is also ~$500 USD however, that is the 16GB WiFI only model. In this case the Surface Windows RT model at that price is 32GB. There are other spec differences though,…

I’m not really interested in Windows RT though,…or perhaps I should say I prefer Windows 8 Pro.


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 16, 2012)

it's about $50 to high. people look at price tag and are not smart enough to discern value. especially where apple products are concerned.


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## naoan (Oct 16, 2012)

So it's $500 for a 20GB WinRT tablet (Windows RT default install need 12.4GB)

Remind me again why I would want this?


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## pr0n Inspector (Oct 16, 2012)

Octavean said:


> Interesting,….
> 
> The entry level iPad is also ~$500 USD however, that is the 16GB WiFI only model. In this case the Surface Windows RT model at that price is 32GB. There are other spec differences though,…
> 
> I’m not really interested in Windows RT though,…or perhaps I should say I prefer Windows 8 Pro.



That depends on how big is Windows RT + Office(pre-installed). Certainly much bigger than iOS or Android.


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## BigMack70 (Oct 16, 2012)

Meh... it might look cooler and more "hip" than an inexpensive Windows 7 laptop (I got a nice HP Probook 4430s for $420), but I'll take the added functionality of my laptop any day over this. 

Now... get that price down to $300, and then we can talk.


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## Octavean (Oct 16, 2012)

With Apple and iOS devices we now see in many cases free over the air operating system upgrades. Not just one mind you, usually at least two free OS upgrades.

One thing I find difficult to visualize is Microsoft giving away a free OS upgrade without a new hardware purchase bolstering the license. Let alone making it an easy upgrade that is over the air. 

As far as I am concerned, any Windows RT tablet (not just the Microsoft Surface Windows RT tablet) should be eligible for a free upgrade to the next version of Windows (Windows 9 for the sake of argument) and possibly the version after that as well.  Still I just cant picture Microsoft doing it. 

Microsoft giving away free OS upgrades (repeatedly) is like hell freezing over.


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## 3870x2 (Oct 16, 2012)

Octavean said:


> With Apple and iOS devices we now see in many cases free over the air operating system upgrades. Not just one mind you, usually at least two free OS upgrades.
> 
> One thing I find difficult to visualize is Microsoft giving away a free OS upgrade without a new hardware purchase bolstering the license. Let alone making it an easy upgrade that is over the air.
> 
> ...



Aren't major OSx upgrades released more often?

Also, I wouldnt ever pay for a mac operating system.  I would however pay for a windows operating system.


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## Drone (Oct 16, 2012)

Hm this Surface is so pricey. It's very strange because technology is getting cheaper but ultrabooks, ssds and all that stuff is still expensive. I guess I will wait for the next generation of  Surface.


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## 3870x2 (Oct 16, 2012)

Drone said:


> Hm this Surface is so pricey. It's very strange because technology is getting cheaper but ultrabooks, ssds and all that stuff is still expensive. I guess I will wait for the next generation of  Surface.



If there were any tablet I would get it would be the surface.

BTW What is the difference between RT and 8?  And why wouldnt they just release 8 instead?


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## bencrutz (Oct 16, 2012)

3870x2 said:


> If there were any tablet I would get it would be the surface.
> 
> BTW What is the difference between RT and 8?  And why wouldnt they just release 8 instead?



8 RT -> arm processors
8 / 8 pro / 8 enterprise -> x86 processors

RT wont run your x86 apps (both 32 bit and 64 bit)


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## 3870x2 (Oct 16, 2012)

bencrutz said:


> 8 RT -> arm processors
> 8 / 8 pro / 8 enterprise -> x86 processors
> 
> RT wont run your x86 apps (both 32 bit and 64 bit)



I was told yesterday that the appstore requires the programs to be compiled under both ARM and x86.

That could be a huge pain in the ass for developers.  The only real thing that differentiates the mobile operating systems is that app stores.


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## Dos101 (Oct 16, 2012)

Considering an iPad is $500, these prices aren't too bad. Now, if they could announce the price for the Windows 8 Pro version then I'd be happy.


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## 3870x2 (Oct 16, 2012)

Dos101 said:


> Considering an iPad is $500, these prices aren't too bad. Now, if they could announce the price for the Windows 8 Pro version then I'd be happy.



I thought they did: $139.

There is nothing pro about a casual operating system.  Out company will not implement this.  Ever.

Might have well stuck with home and mobile editions.


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## Dos101 (Oct 16, 2012)

3870x2 said:


> I thought they did: $139.
> 
> There is nothing pro about a casual operating system.  Out company will not implement this.  Ever.
> 
> Might have well stuck with home and mobile editions.



The Windows RT Surface tablet is the ARM version, the Windows 8 Pro Surface tablet is the x86 version.


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 16, 2012)

If this thing had Wacom level sensitivity I would get one. Its just not sensitive enough. Come on MS team up with Wacom already. It would KILL Apple.


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 16, 2012)

you really can't compare this to the ipad 3 considering the ipad 3 has a retina display and this has run of the mill crap.


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 16, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> you really can't compare this to the ipad 3 considering the ipad 3 has a retina display and this has run of the mill crap.



I don't even know what "retina display" is. Is it something that I need?


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## Solaris17 (Oct 16, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> it's about $50 to high. people look at price tag and are not smart enough to discern value. especially where apple products are concerned.



lold


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 16, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I don't even know what "retina display" is. Is it something that I need?



if you are a visual artist then you will see a great benefit in having a "retina" display. since you are a visual artists you should look into getting one or at least have the decency to know what one is so that you can keep up with the lingo in your craft.


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## Irony (Oct 16, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I don't even know what "retina display" is. Is it something that I need?



Definition:  It's where, if you look at anything anti apple it burns your retinas off.

(From the great irony doctionary)


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## Solaris17 (Oct 16, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I don't even know what "retina display" is. Is it something that I need?



just a high PPI display nothing you cant get way cheaper by shopping for other professional displays.


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## Octavean (Oct 16, 2012)

3870x2 said:


> Aren't major OSx upgrades released more often?
> 
> Also, I wouldnt ever pay for a mac operating system.  I would however pay for a windows operating system.



I believe Apple now updates OS X annually whereas Microsoft is on a three year cycle for x86 / x64 OSes.  This is neither here nor there though because we are talking about ARM.

I was referring to iOS which is a mobile OS for ARM hardware. This is analogous to Windows RT for the ARM platform. iOS upgrades are typically free and one can expect two or maybe three free upgrades before Apple drops support for the hardware version. 

Whether someone would buy Apple hardware or not isn’t the issue. The issue is one of comparability.  Android ARM devises often receive free OS upgrades as well. For example, the original Asus Transformer Prime received a free upgrade to Ice Cream Sandwich,…..eventually. Other versions of the Transformer line may have received a free upgrade to Ice Cream Sandwich as well as a pending upgrade to Jellybean. Not really sure but it illustrates the point. 

To be comparable, Microsoft would have to upgrade Windows RT tablet OSes for free to whatever its successor is and possibly the successor to that OS upgrade as well. It wuld also have to be an easy over the air upgrade (no cable connection to a PC).

Again I don’t see Microsoft doing this. 

I suppose one could make the case that Microsoft’s 3yr OS upgrade cycle would impede the upgrade for any one device because 3yrs is enough to make the hardware antiquated.  Point taken but that would disrupt the notion of comparability (something a pricing model may depend on) and leave customers with a device that may never see an OS update.  Not ideal in my book. 




3870x2 said:


> I was told yesterday that the appstore requires the programs to be compiled under both ARM and x86.
> 
> That could be a huge pain in the ass for developers.  The only real thing that differentiates the mobile operating systems is that app stores.



Not sure what you mean here since I was under the impression that the Metro interface would be the only GUI for Windows RT tablets and devices (IE no Windows classic desktop).


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 16, 2012)

Solaris17 said:


> just a high PPI display nothing you cant get way cheaper by shopping for other professional displays.



Figured as much. Just looked them up. NEC has had them for years. New name on old tech.


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## Kantastic (Oct 16, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Figured as much. Just looked them up. NEC has had them for years. New name on old tech.



Just looked up NEC devices with high PPI. The US military has had them for years. New name on old tech.


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 16, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Just looked up NEC devices with high PPI. The US military has had them for years. New name on old tech.



Ive seen them on medical grade monitors. It would be nice to have but nothing I need to do my job. Color accuracy is far more important.


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 16, 2012)

Solaris17 said:


> just a high PPI display nothing you cant get way cheaper by shopping for other professional displays.



huh? you trolling now, bro.

no tablet device has a display near the ipad3...

no other retailer has them for laptops...



TheMailMan78 said:


> Figured as much. Just looked them up. NEC has had them for years. New name on old tech.



nec doesn't sell a tablet with these specs...

2048-by-1536 resolution, 3.1 million pixels in a 9.7-inch space


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## Solaris17 (Oct 16, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Ive seen them on medical grade monitors. It would be nice to have but nothing I need to do my job. Color accuracy is far more important.



ya iv never seen any kind of add (minus apple) that pushed PPI only color accuracy. My best firneds dad and me would chat. he worked for auto desk (manchester NH) they gave him some really cool shit. He always talked about color accuracy. they also had some really expensive calibration equipment. I also love how not only were they not exactly interested in PPI but they hated anything but matte screens. I told him once i liked matte screens and he was like ya me and the guys do too gloss is a joke. which is exactly what retina is high PPI gloss screen. why any kind of 3d artist would want it is beyond me. if i want bloom effect on my purples and blues ill adjust it on my 2007FP in the nvidia CP.



Easy Rhino said:


> huh? you trolling now, bro.
> 
> no tablet device has a display near the ipad3...
> 
> ...



trolling? no you brought up artistry and now you back out and say you were talking about tablets? do you even lift? you dont photoshop on an ipad or any tablet "bro"


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## Drone (Oct 16, 2012)

bencrutz said:


> 8 RT -> arm processors
> 8 / 8 pro / 8 enterprise -> x86 processors



Plus RT will have Office 2013 oob.





PCMAG posted a comparison table between Surface and iPad


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 16, 2012)

Solaris17 said:


> do you even lift?







> you dont photoshop on an ipad or any tablet "bro"



no, but you do look at images on it...


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## Solaris17 (Oct 16, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> no, but you do look at images on it...



i dont know any serious artist that would judge schematics and design and color from their designers tablet. that company would fail. you do these things from a workstation. and you dont need an $800 tablet to show some random passer by your cool new coke logo.

also im glad you caught that.


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 16, 2012)

Solaris17 said:


> i dont know any serious artist that would judge schematics and design and color from their designers tablet. that company would fail. you do these things from a workstation. and you dont need an $800 tablet to show some random passer by your cool new coke logo.
> 
> also im glad you caught that.



it's $600 and graphic artists do indeed use them. what's more, the increased resolution makes daily tasks much more pleasant on the eyes. having a retina display is a win-win and well worth the extra $100.


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 16, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> no, but you do look at images on it...



I don't need PPI to look at porn and play Angry Birds. I don't care how fancy the display is the sensitivity is WAY to low for me to work off. I want a tablet that can do what this baby can do.......


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 16, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I don't need PPI to look at porn and play Angry Birds. I don't care how fancy the display is the sensitivity is WAY to low for me to work off. I want a tablet that can do what this baby can do.......
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/121016/800x600_DTH2400HD_01.jpeg
> http://img.techpowerup.org/121016/800x600_DTH2400HD_07.jpeg



well then the ipad is not for you...


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 16, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> well then the ipad is not for you...



No tablet is. Thats why I want MS to team up with Wacom. If they do there is a huge market for digital artists that will jump all over a digital "sketch pad".



Easy Rhino said:


> it's $600 and graphic artists do indeed use them. what's more, the increased resolution makes daily tasks much more pleasant on the eyes. having a retina display is a win-win and well worth the extra $100.


 Most "artists" are idiots too and buy anything "Apple". However your real pros still use workstations and Wacoms. Come on man you talking to me about this is like me trying to argue Java with you.


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## johnnyfiive (Oct 16, 2012)

naoan said:


> So it's $500 for a 20GB WinRT tablet (Windows RT default install need 12.4GB)
> 
> Remind me again why I would want this?



How much space does the $499 New iPad 16GB give you after the OS install?

Remind you again why you would want it.... well, its a much more capable tablet when compared to a iPad, thats why.
To the people saying its too expensive, you need to read the specs, understand its made directly by Microsoft, and that its not just a typical $200 Nexus 7 type tablet. It's way more capable than any tablet out on the market today. Surface isn't a tablet, its more like a tablet-laptop hybrid. I'm excited for Microsoft and Windows 8. I want to see the Surface Pro pricing!


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## erocker (Oct 16, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Most "artists" are idiots too and buy anything "Apple". However your real pros still use workstations and Wacoms. Come on man you talking to me about this is like me trying to argue Java with you.



This is a very true statement, other than the "real pros using workstations and Wacoms". Apple is well entrenched in the professional market too. You know this.


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 16, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> No tablet is. Thats why I want MS to team up with Wacom. If they do there is a huge market for digital artists that will jump all over a digital "sketch pad".
> 
> Most "artists" are idiots too and buy anything "Apple". However your real pros still use workstations and Wacoms. Come on man you talking to me about this is like me trying to argue Java with you.



huh? what defines a real pro. you are just trolling. apple has sold million upon millions upon millions of ipad 3 and apple is the largest and most powerful hardware and software company in existence. just how many ipads do they need to sell to make you see that people buy them more than just to look cool. maybe you are the one who needs to get with the times.


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 16, 2012)

erocker said:


> This is a very true statement, other than the "real pros using workstations and Wacoms". Apple is well entrenched in the professional market too. You know this.


 Apple USED to be. If you look at what most top tier production studios and design departments use today it tends to be PC oriented. Only thing Apple has a real foothold in is audio and art schools anymore. Not in the "real world" of illustration.



Easy Rhino said:


> huh? what defines a real pro. you are just trolling. apple has sold million upon millions upon millions of ipad 3 and apple is the largest and most powerful hardware and software company in existence. just how many ipads do they need to sell to make you see that people buy them more than just to look cool. maybe you are the one who needs to get with the times.


 Epic attempt at trolling me. Kudos. Almost bit. Anyway most professionals that have lasted more then 5 years in the industry tend to be "real pros". Most kids get out of college taking art because they suck at everything else. When they see how tough it is they normally bail within five years and go teach art classes in elementary schools. Top tier artists don't work off iPads. Sorry but that's just a fact of life. They use what works. Hell the guy who just passed from Cancer that did all the concept art for the Fallout games used a 3 generation Wacom tablet! That's damn near 8 years old and look what he could do....oh and he worked off a PC. iPads are for normal everyday users. Not professional illustrators.


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## erocker (Oct 16, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Apple USED to be. If you look at what most top tier production studios and design departments use today it tends to be PC oriented. Only thing Apple has a real foothold in is audio and art schools anymore. Not in the "real world" of illustration.



I disagree. Back to the topic which isn't apple. 

*If I hear anyone call anyone else a troll their getting infracted.


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## Irony (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm very interested in the surface pro, been waiting for it since it was first announced. And I dont give a crap about resolution; I generally use my tablet about 2 1/2 feet away, so standard res is great.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 16, 2012)

Irony said:


> I'm very interested in the surface pro, been waiting for it since it was first announced. And I dont give a crap about resolution; I generally use my tablet about 2 1/2 feet away, so standard res is great.



It would be sweet if the Pro was atleast 1080p though.


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## Dos101 (Oct 16, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> It would be sweet if the Pro was atleast 1080p though.



It will be 1080p, check the specs: http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-CA/surface-with-windows-8-pro/specifications


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 16, 2012)

Dos101 said:


> It will be 1080p, check the specs: http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-CA/surface-with-windows-8-pro/specifications



Perfect!!!


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## 3870x2 (Oct 16, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> huh? what defines a real pro. you are just trolling. apple has sold million upon millions upon millions of ipad 3 and apple is the largest and most powerful hardware and software company in existence. just how many ipads do they need to sell to make you see that people buy them more than just to look cool. maybe you are the one who needs to get with the times.



Apples wealth is measured in the ignorant bliss of the masses.

And boy are there masses living out of their means buying things they cant really afford.  I wonder how many people are still paying for their first iphone purchased 4 years ago still working at their minimum wage jobs.

I also wonder how many people living on welfare currently own an iphone.  I know of 3, the only 3 people that I know that are on welfare.


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 16, 2012)

erocker said:


> I disagree. Back to the topic which isn't apple.
> 
> *If I hear anyone call anyone else a troll their getting infracted.



Thank you.

Anyway I would like to see the next pro have some serious sensitivity on it. I might finally be able to have a mobile digital sketch pad.


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## tacosRcool (Oct 16, 2012)

We all knew this would be the price. A better value than the ipad since MS office is included with the Surface. Though me personally I would rather go for the Windows 8 based tablets rather than the RT ones


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## Frick (Oct 16, 2012)

Why oh why do you people drag apple into EVERYTHING?

Anyway, this is a good price. Let the OEMs do the lower end stuff.


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## Kreij (Oct 16, 2012)

3870x2 said:


> I was told yesterday that the appstore requires the programs to be compiled under both ARM and x86.
> 
> That could be a huge pain in the ass for developers.  The only real thing that differentiates the mobile operating systems is that app stores.



From what I've read that is not the case as not all "Metro style" apps will be a good fit on ARM.
If you use Visual Studio 2012, and are using pure .Net code (C#/VB/Javascript) then you can create a package with the target set to "neutral (Any CPU)" as they will run on x86/x64 and ARM.
If you are writing using native code and managed code then you will need to specify each of the target platforms you want the package to be built for and upload them separately.

Long but good blog article for developers

They've built a lot into VS 2012 to support this and take most of the pain out of it.

If you are building a "Metro style" app you have to use their store no matter what platform you are targetting.
If you are not building a "Metro style" App you can distribute it any way you want, as has always been the case.

A lot of the blog entries are not very recent (ie. the one I liked is from June), but I don't think a lot has changed since then.

Anyway ... I don't think these prices are unreasonable.


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## Irony (Oct 17, 2012)

128gb storage, ivy i5, 4gb ram, full size usb 3.0. its the tablet to end all tablets!


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 17, 2012)

Drone said:


> Plus RT will have Office 2013 oob.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Surface RT vs iPad
$499 = $499
1.4 GHz quad-core > 1.0 GHz dual-core
2 GB RAM > 1 GB RAM
32 GB storage > 16 GB storage ($599 to upgrade to 32 GB)
10.6" > 9.7"
1366x768 < 2048x1536
802.11abgn > 802.11bgn
720p front cam > "VGA" front cam
720p rear cam < 1080p rear cam
USB 2.0, microSDXC, headset, mini DisplayPort > 30-pin dock connector (going obsolete), headphone jack
31.5 Wh < 42.5 Wh battery

I think it's pretty clear you get a lot more bang for your buck from equally priced Surface compared to the latest and greatest iPad.  The only two major advantages iPad has over Surface is the bigger battery and the higher pixel density in the screen.  It isn't clear which packages is more power efficient (probably iPad because Tegras are quite hungry) but, even though the iPad has a fancy screen, it doesn't have the GPU power to back it up like the Surface does.  I think, for 2D content, the iPad wins but 3D content, the Surface wins.

I'm very certain Microsoft can and will sell the Surface for less than $500.  They are launching at $500 to see how it competes with iPad in the same prace bracket.  If Surface launches with a splat, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the price drop to $400 or even $300 which makes the choice it a no-brainer.

Surface Pro is going to compete with laptops and, seeing what price Surface debuted for, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Surface Pro go for $1000.




Kreij said:


> If you are building a "Metro style" app you have to use their store no matter what platform you are targetting.


This is a huge turn-off for developers like me that program pro-bono.  I hope they reevaluate this policy and, instead, adopt an authentication program not unlike Games for Windows Live certification.  I'm certain they do it for DRM sake but Microsoft needs to realize that DRM is unpopular--businesses always win when they choose customers over providers.


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## bostonbuddy (Oct 17, 2012)

I'll be interested when the pro debuts, altho w/ this pricing 1k for the pro seems likely and that might be more then I'll be willing to spend.


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## Mathragh (Oct 17, 2012)

For all you designers and illustrators out here: The presentation that was given a while ago when surface was introduced mentioned that the surface pro had a stylus added to the design, and that the touch controller registering that stylus had a way higher resolution than the display itself.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on design/illustrations, but I cant really remember any other tablet/touchscreen having those same specifications. So i guess that íf you wanted something to do graphical work on, the surface pro would would atleast better then the average tablet/ipad.


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## Drone (Oct 17, 2012)

Interesting news here, Microsoft Surface RT 32GB models sold out, back order pushed to 3 weeks


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## ELPCU (Oct 17, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Surface RT vs iPad
> $499 = $499
> 1.4 GHz quad-core > 1.0 GHz dual-core
> 2 GB RAM > 1 GB RAM
> ...



How 'bout comparing Surface vs. Asus Transformer Infinity or Nexus 7?

I cannot see any reason to choose surface over asus or Nexus 7, 
especially Nexus 7 is too cheap to even argue. 



I don't care how much battery capacity put in, if they aren't last long due to power consumption of heavier OS. So At least we need to see what is happening after it comes out. and 32GB doesn't tell much, cuz window RT takes more than 12GB by itself. I don't care camera spec as well, becuz I don't see any practical use with big fat tablet. There is still pros, but other android tablets already has that.

hardware spec isn't everything. If it is, then Android should already killed Apple.

In terms of martket share, Android tablets were totally dominated by iPad.
I'm not a big fan of apple, but I think the price of Surface is ridiculus.
I feels MS need to set price much more aggressive(like 350-ish) to take some market share pie away from iPad.


If this is window 8, it will be totally different story.
However with Window 8 RT, which cannot run and x86 base programs,
I cannot see any reason to choose Surface over competitive Android Tablets except free Microsoft Office App.

Yes, I know it is growing fast, but window app store is still weak, and there are All iPad accessory around my local store while not much for Android or something else.


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 17, 2012)

Surface competes with iPad.  There is no aspect of the Nexus 7 tablet that competes with Surface except sharing a Tegra 3 processor.  e.g. screen is 3" smaller, storage capacity is 2-4 times less, half the RAM, no DisplayPort out, etc.  The $200/$250 price tag matches the spec differences.

Microsoft won't directly compete with Android (at least in the near future)--that's up to the OEMs and whether or not they think they can compete.


Surface is superior in almost every way to the iPad and at the same price.  There's no reason why it shouldn't compete.


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## Irony (Oct 17, 2012)

ELPCU said:


> How 'bout comparing Surface vs. Asus Transformer Infinity or Nexus 7?



or Transformer Prime. If I do upgrade from mine, it will probably be the surface pro, and not for several months at the earliest.


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## remixedcat (Oct 17, 2012)

no vmware view for it... but there's vmware view for ipad....
not as many apps for winRT as ipad.... not gonna work for enterprises that don't have the cash to spend on the surface pro. 

I think they need to lower the price 100 bucks... then it would be in line to be a consumption device to compete with the ipad. 

everyone was hopeing to score one of these for 250-350.... that is an ideal price point for many. 500 is way too much to pay considering the lack of winRT apps avalible right now desipte the DP being accessible more then a year ago.


businesses might get the pro, however it will be as much an an ultrabook so they will just spring for one of those instead.


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 17, 2012)

when the ipad first came out, apple haters were saying how useless a device it was and how stupid because nobody needs one. (of course those people live in their mom's basement and work bagging groceries so how would they know what real people need).

now you have a half dozen companies creating their own tablet devices with varying degrees of usage at varying price points and it seems now even the apple haters love their tablets so long as it doesn't say apple on it. let's be clear, apple leads the way in innovation and they have the sales figures to prove it. everyone else is just riding their coattails to a decent profit.


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## naoan (Oct 17, 2012)

johnnyfiive said:


> How much space does the $499 New iPad 16GB give you after the OS install?
> 
> Remind you again why you would want it.... well, its a much more capable tablet when compared to a iPad, thats why.
> To the people saying its too expensive, you need to read the specs, understand its made directly by Microsoft, and that its not just a typical $200 Nexus 7 type tablet. It's way more capable than any tablet out on the market today. Surface isn't a tablet, its more like a tablet-laptop hybrid. I'm excited for Microsoft and Windows 8. I want to see the Surface Pro pricing!



How much more capable is it compared to el cheapo Nexus 7 and why would I (or anybody) want that capability? Is it unique to WinRT? Can't I get it simpler, easier or cheaper on the widely available ecosystem of Android or iOS?

Why is it a tablet-laptop hybrid when it can't even run x86 app? What makes it oh so great? 

Enlighten me.


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 17, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> when the ipad first came out, apple haters were saying how useless a device it was and how stupid because nobody needs one. (of course those people live in their mom's basement and work bagging groceries so how would they know what real people need).
> 
> now you have a half dozen companies creating their own tablet devices with varying degrees of usage at varying price points and it seems now even the apple haters love their tablets so long as it doesn't say apple on it. let's be clear, apple leads the way in innovation and they have the sales figures to prove it. everyone else is just riding their coattails to a decent profit.



Apple didn't invent tablets. They just made them shiny. I have some brass polish in my kitchen. Am I an innovator too?

The Surface is gonna be way bigger in a corporate environment then the iPad could ever be.


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 17, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Apple didn't invent tablets. They just made them shiny. I have some brass polish in my kitchen. Am I an innovator too?
> 
> The Surface is gonna be way bigger in a corporate environment then the iPad could ever be.



apple made the tablet USEFUL for the every day person. that is what separates a profitable company from a bankrupt company. nobody was mass marketing tablets because nobody was willing to do the market research or felt it was a too risky venture. apple saw an opportunity where nobody else did and engineered a fabulous product that some 30 million people now own. they did A LOT more than just take a tablet from 2004 and make it shiny. you would have to be completely computer illiterate to think that is the case.


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 17, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> apple made the tablet USEFUL for the every day person. that is what separates a profitable company from a bankrupt company. nobody was mass marketing tablets because nobody was willing to do the market research or felt it was a too risky venture. apple saw an opportunity where nobody else did and engineered a fabulous product that some 30 million people now own. they did A LOT more than just take a tablet from 2004 and make it shiny. you would have to be completely computer illiterate to think that is the case.



The only thing Apple does really well is marketing. Thats it. iPad is marketing. The one thing MS does really bad is marketing. Surface is a tool. MS will market it as a toy. However I'm willing to bet money you will see the surface WAY more in a corporate environment then you will the iToy......err iPad. The Surface is for reps in the field who need to SEAMLESSLY interact with corporate....oh and it has Angry Birds too. Why do you think they can charge so much more for it other then better hardware? BECAUSE THEY KNOW Businesses have been SCREAMING for a MS tablet. So I ask you if someone was willing to give you a Surface Pro or an iPad which would you choose?


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## pr0n Inspector (Oct 17, 2012)

Using the completely differrent PRO as an example in a news thread about the useless RT, very convincing argument.


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 17, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> The only thing Apple does really well is marketing. Thats it. iPad is marketing. The one thing MS does really bad is marketing. Surface is a tool. MS will market it as a toy. However I'm willing to bet money you will see the surface WAY more in a corporate environment then you will the iToy......err iPad. The Surface is for reps in the field who need to SEAMLESSLY interact with corporate....oh and it has Angry Birds too. Why do you think they can charge so much more for it other then better hardware? BECAUSE THEY KNOW Businesses have been SCREAMING for a MS tablet. So I ask you if someone was willing to give you a Surface Pro or an iPad which would you choose?



i would take the ipad(which i already own one) over a windows POS because I like the interface, the OS, the weight, the responsiveness, and the design. obviously i can't compare those attributes to the windows POS yet because i havn't held one and it took M$ 4 years to come up with their own tablet. sorry too little too late.

and since when is having a toy like an ipad wrong? isn't that what tpu is all about? we buy computer components we certainly don't need because we like them. they are our toys. people like toys so whether they use it for work or play who cares?


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## ELPCU (Oct 17, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Surface competes with iPad.  There is no aspect of the Nexus 7 tablet that competes with Surface except sharing a Tegra 3 processor.  e.g. screen is 3" smaller, storage capacity is 2-4 times less, half the RAM, no DisplayPort out, etc.  The $200/$250 price tag matches the spec differences.
> 
> Microsoft won't directly compete with Android (at least in the near future)--that's up to the OEMs and whether or not they think they can compete.
> 
> ...



U still don't understand my point?

I know MS wants to compete with iPad, not Android. But we are in competitive market.
If customer bought one tablet, no matter Android or iPad he bought, he will unlikely buy another tablet such as Surface. And that makes competition. Yes, Nexus 7 might not make 'direct' competition, but If I buy Nexus 7, I will not going to buy other tablet for a while. AND nexus 7 is cheap enough to choose it over other 10" high spec tablets

I see no reason(except free MS office) to buy Surface over Android tablets. 
If you want to see a direct competition from Android; There is Asus Transformer tablet series.


And Android OEM company used exactly same strategy like MS's current plan: having better HW spec, and Window 8 "RT" like OS. and they totally bombed by iPad in term of market share. It seems same thing will happens to MS if they don't make it cheaper. IT CAN'T COMPETE against iPad with this price. You said it can or it will prevail, but then question is Why could'nt Android destroy apple already?


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## bostonbuddy (Oct 17, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> they did A LOT more than just take a tablet from 2004 and make it shiny.



your right they took their ipod touch and made it bigger instead.

I'll give apple alot more credit for the iphone then the ipad,  The fact that they didn't add any functionality to the ios is dissapointing, it should have shipped w/ osx or a completly new os.


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## Octavean (Oct 17, 2012)

Online retailers are already taking preorders for Windows 8 tablets running off of Ivy Bridge and Atom hardware. The was a price range for the models I looked at.  

For example, the Acer Iconia W700:

W700-6607
W700-6691
W700-6465
W700P-6459

I forget the price rang but I think it was about ~$800 to ~$1200. The lowest price one was a Core i3 I believe and the highest price model was a Core i5.  I’d have to double check though.

The Acer Iconia W510 uses an Intel Atom Z2760 Clover Trail. There was a price range here too.

Anyway, Microsoft Surface Pro pricing will likely be close to Ivy Bridge Windows 8 tablets that are already citing their prices. Im guessing ~$800 at least. If it comes in significantly lower then that I would be surprised. I'm not talking ~$750 but ~$600 because ~$600 would be shocking IMO.


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## Drone (Oct 23, 2012)

“You can’t appreciate it, without seeing it. Go to a store” says ...  Bill Gates


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## FordGT90Concept (Feb 6, 2013)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I'm very certain Microsoft can and will sell the Surface for less than $500.  They are launching at $500 to see how it competes with iPad in the same prace bracket.  If Surface launches with a splat, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the price drop to $400 or even $300 which makes the choice it a no-brainer.


Looks like I was partially right: Surface's High Profit Margin Reveals Microsoft's Ape-Apple Strategy

They estimate Microsoft is making about $300 per sale.  What remains to be seen if Microsoft reduces the price to increase volume and really put pressure on iPad.  The article points out a potential reason for this: Microsoft has priced itself as a premium product so as to not drive out its Windows 8 RT competitors (Dell, Samsung, Asus, etc.).  Microsoft has internal competition it has to watch out for, unlike Apple.


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## Kantastic (Feb 6, 2013)

FordGT90Concept said:


> The article points out a potential reason for this: Microsoft has priced itself as a premium product so as to not drive out its Windows 8 RT competitors (Dell, Samsung, Asus, etc.).  Microsoft has internal competition it has to watch out for, unlike Apple.



It's okay because it's Microsoft and not Apple. An iPad for $500 is unreasonable, but when Microsoft adopts both the same pricing policy with their higher-than-Apple profit margin and the same "walled garden" policy with regards to the Windows Store, all is merry. 

Hoorah!


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 6, 2013)

the reviews for both the surface rt and pro are pretty bad. once again microsoft created a product for a niche that does not exist.


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## Frick (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> the reviews for both the surface rt and pro are pretty bad. once again microsoft created a product for a niche that does not exist.



Oh it does exist, it's the execution that has come under fire.

A second generation of the Surface Pro would probably be excellent.


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## Mathragh (Feb 6, 2013)

I'd say that Microsoft is kinda stuck in the place they're in at the moment for pricing. Any higher and people would complain even more(justified ofc). But as FordGT also said, they just cant price it much lower because they'll outcompete the OEM's normally selling windows products.

I'd say that if anyone was to blame, it would be the OEM's who are selling stuff with windows on it. 
Apparently those OEM's are so inefficient, that Microsoft who has arguably way less experience in manufacturing of devices can so easily outperform them. I mean, I've never heard OEM's like ACER or dell having such a big margins, while usually they also offer way less in the way of build quality compared to the surface tablets(think of all the plasticky stuff out there).

Edit: Thanks for the link btw, interesting read


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 6, 2013)

One thing that bugs me is that it will not run X32 applications which is kinda a buzz kill. You get something with windows OS on it and expect it to be like a netbook.


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## Dos101 (Feb 6, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> One thing that bugs me is that it will not run X32 applications which is kinda a buzz kill. You get something with windows OS on it and expect it to be like a netbook.



True, but that's why Surface RT isn't a laptop replacement, it's a companion device. With all the apps in the Store now, I can do 90% of what I usually do on my laptop, but with a lot more mobility and battery life. After reading the reviews of the Surface Pro I'm even more content with my decision to purchase Surface RT.


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 6, 2013)

Dos101 said:


> True, but that's why Surface RT isn't a laptop replacement, it's a companion device. With all the apps in the Store now, I can do 90% of what I usually do on my laptop, but with a lot more mobility and battery life. After reading the reviews of the Surface Pro I'm even more content with my decision to purchase Surface RT.



doesn't surface pro have less battery life than a laptop and much less storage space and gets much hotter?


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## Mathragh (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> doesn't surface pro have less battery life than a laptop and much less storage space and gets much hotter?



See anand's review.

Battery life: 4 to 5 hours is longer than my laptop, I dont know what is considered normal these days, but I'd say that atleast the battery life is not bad, all things considered.

Storage space is indeed a quite sparse if you get the 64GB version and dont use a memory card. I'd say 128GB, or the use of a memory card will results in enough space.

When it comes to temperatures, according to the review, the cpu sensor reported a temperature between 60 and 70C, and the temperature of the tablet on the outside was a max of 40 degrees, apparently.


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## Dos101 (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> doesn't surface pro have less battery life than a laptop and much less storage space and gets much hotter?



I was talking about Surface RT, not Surface Pro. But yes you are correct, though I've heard varying reports on the temps (see this review here). It's prices a little high, but I have yet to see any other OEM match the build quality of Surface (both the Pro and RT).


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 6, 2013)

well i don't get it. the ipad 4 beats the surface in everything except memory and yet the ipad runs nearly as fast. you can get a fancy keyboard for the ipad just like the surface pro has. why not save $200 and get an ipad 4?


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## Mathragh (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> well i don't get it. the ipad 4 beats the surface in everything except memory and yet the ipad runs nearly as fast. you can get a fancy keyboard for the ipad just like the surface pro has. why not save $200 and get an ipad 4?



Are you now talking about the surface RT, of the surface pro?


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## cadaveca (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> well i don't get it. the ipad 4 beats the surface in everything except memory and yet the ipad runs nearly as fast. you can get a fancy keyboard for the ipad just like the surface pro has. why not save $200 and get an ipad 4?



iPad4 doesn't run Windows.

Surface Pro meets all my daily needs, except gaming, runs all my apps(including Photoshop), and is nice and small. iPad? It's got apps. Hoorrah.


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 6, 2013)

Mathragh said:


> Are you now talking about the surface RT, of the surface pro?



surface pro



cadaveca said:


> iPad4 doesn't run Windows.
> 
> Surface Pro meets all my daily needs, except gaming, runs all my apps(including Photoshop), and is nice and small. iPad? It's got apps. Hoorrah.



right, so you are willing to spend an extra $200 for a tablet for the OS. i am not directing this at you, but for those people who call people who like apple products 'fanbois' i am pretty sure this little fact will make their heads explode. sorry for the run-on sentence.


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## cadaveca (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> right, so you are willing to spend an extra $200 for a tablet for the OS. i am not directing this at you, but for those people who call people who like apple products 'fanbois' i am pretty sure this little fact will make their heads explode. sorry for the run-on sentence.



Me? Sure. That OS gives me the functionality I need, and if I have to buy a specific device for it.. that's fine. It's not the only tablet available though, so the iPad's real usefulness, to me, is for watching video only, and minor surfing.

I want more touchscreen controls, though, so while Surface Pro greatly appeals to me, it is not high on my list of wants right now. However, build a decent Wacom tablet into the top, charge me $99 more, and I'll buy one this instant.

In my house, even my cable box runs a Microsoft OS. The seamless integration...you only get out of using a complete platform, and I'm already a Windows user, not a Mac user.


If I had a Mac, and an iPhone, I'd buy the iPad, most likely.


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 6, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Me? Sure. That OS gives me the functionality I need, and if I have to buy a specific device for it.. that's fine. It's not the only tablet available though, so the iPad's real usefulness, to me, is for watching video only, and minor surfing.
> 
> I want more touchscreen controls, though, so while Surface Pro greatly appeals to me, it is not high on my list of wants right now. However, build a decent Wacom tablet into the top, charge me $99 more, and I'll buy one this instant.
> 
> ...



exactly right! if most of your stuff is already running windows then it is so much easier integrating newer windows products into your environment. so obviously you would want a surface tablet. i am not sure why people don't understand this simple aspect of computer users.


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## cadaveca (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> i am not sure why people don't understand this simple aspect of computer users.



Oh, that's simple. It stinks of "The Man" too much. Or whatever label you want to give to "Corporate Evil". People dislike IE, ads on the internet, and all the rest, for exactly the same reasons.

I don't mind using specialized devices for specialized tasks. My phone..is a phone. It doesn't play videos...or text message...

My TV is for TV, I have a separate panel for console gaming. I have a PC for work, and a PC for play.

When I walk out my front door, I leave all the technology sitting on my desk.

When all these things cost so much out of one's paycheck, it's easy to understand both wanting one thing that will do it all, as well as understanding the real importance of these devices, too. For most, it's not just a phone in their pocket... It's their life. If someone can easily intrude on that...


You just can't win, as a tech company. On one hand people love you, and on the other, they want you dead. That's a pretty fine line to walk.


As a parent, my life is my kids. The rest is just distractions. Having four kids, those distractions take up far less importance in my life than they do for most, so simply, I just don't care. I want devices that make my life easier, and paying a little for that is no big deal. I think the same is true for any parent...but not everyone out there with disposal income is a parent.

Most PC enthusiasts..aren't parents. The demographic makes it pretty basic, IMHO.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 6, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Oh, that's simple. It stinks of "The Man" too much. Or whatever label you want to give to "Corporate Evil". People dislike IE, ads on the internet, and all the rest, for exactly the same reasons.
> 
> I don't mind using specialized devices for specialized tasks. My phone..is a phone. It doesn't play videos...or text message...
> 
> ...



Three kids just makes me want something that works......problem is in my case everything doesn't work right. When I was a kid we had an RCA TV built into a cabinet. I would turn in on and watch TV. Now I gotta turn on the cable box before the TV or I have to turn everything off and start over (including the DVD player). Everyday I'm like "I JUST WANNA WATCH F#@KING CARTOONS!" Cable company blames the TV maker, TV maker blames the Cable company and I'm getting really good at the range with my 30.06.


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## Dos101 (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> surface pro
> 
> 
> 
> right, so you are willing to spend an extra $200 for a tablet for the OS. i am not directing this at you, but for those people who call people who like apple products 'fanbois' i am pretty sure this little fact will make their heads explode. sorry for the run-on sentence.



The iPad doesn't have expandable storage, it doesn't have a USB port where you can plug in printers/mice/keyboards/cameras/xbox controllers/USB drives/phones etc, or a keyboard with a trackpad that doubles as a cover. Surface Rt and Surface Pro can both do this (and more with the Surface Pro since it's x86). I can do more on my Surface RT than I could ever do on an iPad, and it only cost me an extra $130 to do it.


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 6, 2013)

Dos101 said:


> The iPad doesn't have expandable storage, it doesn't have a USB port where you can plug in printers/mice/keyboards/cameras/xbox controllers/USB drives/phones etc, or a keyboard with a trackpad that doubles as a cover. Surface Rt and Surface Pro can both do this (and more with the Surface Pro since it's x86). I can do more on my Surface RT than I could ever do on an iPad, and it only cost me an extra $130 to do it.



derp. for $20 you can buy a usb dongle that plugs right into the ipad and do everything you just mentioned.


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## Kantastic (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> derp. for $20 you can buy a usb dongle that plugs right into the ipad and do everything you just mentioned.



Lol Rhino, you won't get anywhere with that argument. Having to modify and tweak tablets for extra functionality is only tolerable with regards to Android (and now Windows 8), not iOS.

Higher price? No problem! as long as it's not iOS
Similar app store policies? No problem! as long as it's not iOS
Gimped functionality (no x32 apps)? No problem! as long as it's not iOS


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 6, 2013)

Kantastic said:


> Lol Rhino, you won't get anywhere with that argument. Having to modify and tweak tablets for extra functionality is only tolerable with regards to Android (and now Windows 8), not iOS.
> 
> Higher price? No problem! as long as it's not iOS
> Similar app store policies? No problem! as long as it's not iOS
> Gimped functionality (no x32 apps)? No problem! as long as it's not iOS



Um having to lug around an extra piece of hardware for functionality goes well beyond the iOS argument.


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## Crap Daddy (Feb 6, 2013)

Apple does not have any product comparable to Surface Pro so I can't understand why some want to compare the iPad with this Microsoft tablet. One runs a mobile OS on ARM and the other a full destktop OS on a mobile Ivy Bridge i5.

It's like comparing a toy gun with the real deal. With the toy you might impress some people but with the real gun you can actually shoot the bastard.


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 6, 2013)

Crap Daddy said:


> Apple does not have any product comparable to Surface Pro so I can't understand why some want to compare the iPad with this Microsoft tablet. One runs a mobile OS on ARM and the other a full destktop OS on a mobile Ivy Bridge i5.
> 
> It's like comparing a toy gun with the real deal. With the toy you might impress some people but with the real gun you can actually shoot the bastard.



in case you havn't been paying attention, the ipad with the arm proc runs nearly as fast and COOLER/LONGER than the surface does with its i5.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> in case you havn't been paying attention, the ipad with the arm proc runs nearly as fast and COOLER/LONGER than the surface does with its i5.



But it doesn't run anything other then Apple Apps. Call me when it runs Photoshop like the Surface.


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 6, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> But it doesn't run anything other then Apple Apps. Call me when it runs Photoshop like the Surface.



well since the surface doesnt have a wacom built into it i don't see your point. are you going to use your fingers to draw?  i mean that might be fun and all...


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## Mathragh (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> well since the surface doesnt have a wacom built into it i don't see your point. are you going to use your fingers to draw?  i mean that might be fun and all...



It actually uses wacom tech for its pen.
Damn why do people keep claiming stuff without even bothering to read up about it.

Edit: I can understand that some stuff is just complicated/difficult to understand or just not totally clear, but this is just a simple fact that has been mentioned a lot. Page dedicated to pen input


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> well since the surface doesnt have a wacom built into it i don't see your point. are you going to use your fingers to draw?  i mean that might be fun and all...



No but does have Bluetooth which the new wacoms use. The Surface would make an AWESOME portable work station and tablet rolled into one. When they boost the sensitivity up a good surface will replace my tower. I know a LOT of artists that cannot wait.


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 6, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> No but does have Bluetooth which the new wacoms use. The Surface would make an AWESOME portable work station and tablet rolled into one.



tell yea what! find a positive review of the surface pro by a professional graphics artist like yourself using photoshop,etc and i will humbly say you have found one use for the surface that the ipad can't do.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> tell yea what! find a positive review of the surface pro by a professional graphics artist like yourself using photoshop,etc and i will humbly say you have found one use for the surface that the ipad can't do.



They are not using them yet. Sensitivity isn't there. However the hardware other then that is more then enough.


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## Crap Daddy (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> in case you havn't been paying attention, the ipad with the arm proc runs nearly as fast and COOLER/LONGER than the surface does with its i5.



Watching youtube? If you really want to see the iPad toy at work in some benchmarks against the Surface Pro - though they are on different planets -  I suggest you read here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/5


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 6, 2013)

Crap Daddy said:


> Watching youtube? If you really want to see the iPad toy at work in some benchmarks against the Surface Pro - though they are on different planets -  I suggest you read here:
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6695/microsoft-surface-pro-review/5



yes, thats because the ipad's resolution is MUCH HIGHER therefore is much better looking. what's more, despite the better benchmarks of the surface, user experience reports that the slight lag time the ipad has is irrelevant to its usage. apple developers have managed to sqeeze every drop out of their superior device which costs $200 less. microsoft once again fails.


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## Mathragh (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> yes, thats because the ipad's resolution is MUCH HIGHER therefore is much better looking. what's more, despite the better benchmarks of the surface, user experience reports that the slight lag time the ipad has is irrelevant to its usage. apple developers have managed to sqeeze every drop out of their superior device which costs $200 less. microsoft once again fails.



I guess that if you're determined that something sucks/fails, you'll always be able to think of something


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 6, 2013)

Mathragh said:


> I guess that if you're determined that something sucks/fails, you'll always be able to think of something



funny i hear that about apple products all the time. 

i was hoping the surface pro would be a real challenger because i need something a bit more mobile than a laptop but it needs to be windows based for work. at that price point i simply cannot justify it. i might as well buy a lightweight ultrabook for $150 less.


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## Crap Daddy (Feb 6, 2013)

Don't want to continue the debate because THEY ARE DIFFERENT. When Apple will bring out a product that runs a full desktop OS on a tablet form factor with a x86 CPU the we can talk. Until then feel free to compare and preach the superiority of the iPad compared to Nexus 10.


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## Mathragh (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> funny i hear that about apple products all the time.
> 
> i was hoping the surface pro would be a real challenger because i need something a bit more mobile than a laptop but it needs to be windows based for work. at that price point i simply cannot justify it. i might as well buy a lightweight ultrabook for $150 less.



Well, I dont think anyone was saying that this is the perfect device and/or everything about it is perfect. However, if you say you dont like something, and then provide all sorts of reasons which turn out to be false, it gets kinda, well, pointless.

If you would have said something like, well, its just too expensive for what I want to do with it, it would've been totally fine lol


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 6, 2013)

You guys know hes trollin don't ya?


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 6, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You guys know hes trollin don't ya?



i'm not trolling. benchmarks show the surface pro is crap for the price. you would be better off with an ipad unless you need a full fledged desktop OS on something slightly faster than a tablet. however, given its bulk and its price you might as well buy an ultrabook. surface pro just makes no sense!


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> i'm not trolling. benchmarks show the surface pro is crap for the price. you would be better off with an ipad unless you need a full fledged desktop OS on something slightly faster than a tablet. however, given its bulk and its price you might as well buy an ultrabook. surface pro just makes no sense!



Its a desktop replacement tablet. It can do everything the iPad can do and WAY MORE. To top it off it works much, MUCH better in a corporate environment.


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## Dos101 (Feb 6, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You guys know hes trollin don't ya?



That's why I stopped replying. It's either that or he doesn't know what he's talking about lol. Or he gets off on all this fighting


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## Mathragh (Feb 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> i'm not trolling. benchmarks show the surface pro is crap for the price. you would be better off with an ipad unless you need a full fledged desktop OS on something slightly faster than a tablet. however, given its bulk and its price you might as well buy an ultrabook. surface pro just makes no sense!



Well, to be honest, thats exactly the niche they are targetting: people who dont want to carry a full laptop, but still want all the functionality of a fully fledged PC.

This isnt ment for people who are happy with just the functionality of an iPad, this is for people who want to do everything they're used to on a PC, but in a tablet format.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 6, 2013)

Dos101 said:


> That's why I stopped replying. It's either that or he doesn't know what he's talking about lol. Or he gets off on all this fighting



I know Easy. Hes not doing to bad. Still has much to learn however.


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## Dos101 (Feb 6, 2013)

Mathragh said:


> Well, to be honest, thats exactly the niche they are targetting: people who dont want to carry a full laptop, but still want all the functionality of a fully fledged PC.
> 
> This isnt ment for people who are happy with just the functionality of an iPad, this is for people who want to do everything they're used to on a PC, but in a tablet format.



i.e. business people.


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## Mathragh (Feb 6, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I know Easy. Hes not doing to bad. Still has much to learn however.



Goddamnit people  I always fail to spot trolling in time(no kidding, my mates irl always do this kind of stuff to me coz they know I keep falling for it). 

On a serious note, I didnt think people here would go to this lenght, and thats one of the reasons I came to this forum. Ah well, lesson learned once again I guess.

Edit:
Except for the MailMan, I've seen him pull of enough trolling already lol.


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