# New PC dreams / switching sides from Intel to AMD.



## zbam (Aug 13, 2017)

Hello everyone, currently I have a PC with specs below:
*- 600 watt shitty zalman power supply
- msi z170a gaming pro
- core i5 6500
- 8gb single kit kingston 2666 hyperx memory
-gigabyte g1 gaming gtx 980
-zalman z1 neo case*

So I bought this PC around 2016 May. It still is a decent PC I know, but when it comes to streaming on twitch, well let alone the x264 encoder, even with quicksync or NVENC encoders, it affects my FPS during the games. And back in 2016 I had hopes to upgrade my intel CPU and overclock further in future with kaby lake later coffee lake(we all know how that turned out).
Then AMD came out of nowhere and busted the market, and since they said they will be supporting their AM4 socket until 2020, now I am in love with R7 1700 processor which will be way enough for both streaming and gaming at the same time.

So here is my dream PC now 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




*-AMD RYZEN 7 1700 ( I am planning to overclock it to 4.0ghz, if wont work, at least 3.9)
-GIGABYTE AORUS AX370-GAMING K7
-Be quiet! PURE BASE 600
-G.SKILL 16GB KIT DDR4 3200MHz CL14 Flare X for AMD (RAM prices are freaking high)
-CoolerMaster Vanquard Gold Series 1000W
-Corsair H110i Extreme (maybe NZXT kraken x61)
-Samsung SSD 850 EVO - 500GB, Basic*

I am definitely not thinking a new graphics card since I'm using 1080p monitor for games. G1 Gaming gtx 980 is a god damn good card with a huge overclock potential (if not compared to pascal overclock 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  ). In worst case I can just put another second hand gtx 980 for sli for 150 usd or so.

Coffee lake is about to happen I know but still I dont think intel will be able to overcome their hunger for cash and offer us some reasonable prices as well as AMD, let s say i7 8700k will be around 330$ but I still think that it wont beat the r7 1700, at least it will match up and since I realized how intel is trying to manipulate the market one handed and milk us all, I decided to support AMD so at least there can be a competitive rival for intel(yea right buying one cpu from amd will do that 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  but maybe some others will think the same as me).

I have lack of knowledge about AMD motherboards, as well as their CPUs although I still continue to watch and read about the technology behind AMD CPUs and performance reviews. I have never used watercooling systems. I believe Be quiet pure base 600 is a beautiful case on its price range.About the power supply I deliberately chose high powered power supply so it is possible to upgrade the graphics card or have SLI in the system or some other sh.t that can require more power in future.

I am open to any kind of suggestions about the parts, when to buy, market analysis 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  , wait or not wait for another gen of processors(either intel or amd).
Oh and when I bought my 1 year old PC last year, I was not employed, now I am so I have bit more money to spend. I am planning to make this build happen in a month or two.

Thanks in advance anyone who comments&shares ideas!


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## TheLostSwede (Aug 13, 2017)

Don't expect to reach anything stable over 3.8GHz, this is what most people reach with the 1700. Anything more is up to pure luck.

Otherwise you seem to have picked decent hardware.


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## zbam (Aug 13, 2017)

TheLostSwede said:


> Don't expect to reach anything stable over 3.8GHz, this is what most people reach with the 1700. Anything more is up to pure luck.
> 
> Otherwise you seem to have picked decent hardware.



well, I hope I will get lucky then


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## Vayra86 (Aug 13, 2017)

I hate to shatter dreams but this feels like an awfully expensive sidegrade rather than an upgrade. Yes you get the threads for your stream... but seeing how long your previous build lasted, that is one serious waste of capital. Your single thread might actually be a tad slower than your current system and your multi is solely for a stream... In the meantime you're on 1080p which puts the emphasis on CPU single thread performance more than anything else.

If you were to drop an i7-K on that board you have now and clock it to 4.5, I'd be surprised if you see less performance even while streaming. But you do save what, 2/3rds of the money you're tossing at it now. And you'll probably win about 20% performance on single thread like that while still getting 4c/8t.

For reference, I also considered Ryzen with an Ivy Bridge (much lower IPC than Skylake) i5 at 4.4 / 4.2 Ghz right now and I just don't see the performance boost for gaming at all, so I'm holding off for a bit.

Food for thought obviously; but hell, sometimes its just fun to build something, so don't let me stop you 

About the component list:
- avoid CM for your PSU, get an EVGA, Seasonic, high end Corsair instead
- The benefit of an AIO is questionable on Ryzen.


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## zbam (Aug 13, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> I hate to shatter dreams but this feels like an awfully expensive sidegrade rather than an upgrade. Yes you get the threads for your stream... but seeing how long your previous build lasted, that is one serious waste of capital. Your single thread might actually be a tad slower than your current system and your multi is solely for a stream... In the meantime you're on 1080p which puts the emphasis on CPU single thread performance more than anything else.
> 
> If you were to drop an i7-K on that board you have now and clock it to 4.5, I'd be surprised if you see less performance even while streaming. But you do save what, 2/3rds of the money you're tossing at it now. And you'll probably win about 20% performance on single thread like that while still getting 4c/8t.
> 
> ...



No shatter happening it's okay 
As I stated in the post my current build was under strict budget limitation because of not being employed  so I could not get some sort of a beast I wished, and now this is some sort of a way of giving myself a gift from my own earnings 
I believe you are right about the dropping i7 K to this board.
Well, my purpose of posting this thread is to get different point of views, so I appreciate the comment 

so CM is not a high end PSU, noted. About the AOI, all the videos I watched reviews I read, AOIs are the most preferred ones for Ryzen, why would you say that ?


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## Vayra86 (Aug 13, 2017)

zbam said:


> No shatter happening it's okay
> As I stated in the post my current build was under strict budget limitation because of not being employed  so I could not get some sort of a beast I wished, and now this is some sort of a way of giving myself a gift from my own earnings
> I believe you are right about the dropping i7 K to this board.
> Well the my purpose of posting this thread is to get different point of views, so I appreciate the comment



Another good thing to consider when building rigs is future planning / upgrade path. We know for a fact that the real jumps in CPU performance are behind us and AMD and Intel offer solid platforms now that are quite on par, while Ryzen has a definite ceiling in terms of clocks right now. If you really want to go big, I'd say HEDT is where its at. This consideration might also play into getting the i7 now for a lot less and save the cash to go HEDT when it really is worthwhile (Threadripper 2?). Now thát is beasty 

Oh yes another thing, 500GB storage? You'll eat through that in no-time. I have similar SSD capacity and am constantly trying to make free space to install games.


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## Totally (Aug 13, 2017)

Also temps ramp up quickly as you overclock, mine for example sits at 28c stock but after taking it to 4GHz temps shoot up to 45-46c


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## FR@NK (Aug 13, 2017)

Save your money and just get a 7700k to drop in there.


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## Vya Domus (Aug 13, 2017)

TheLostSwede said:


> Don't expect to reach anything stable over 3.8GHz, this is what most people reach with the 1700. Anything more is up to pure luck.



I know of a lot of people with 1700s that hit 4Ghz. I would dare say it's not really that rare.



FR@NK said:


> Save your money and just get a 7700k to drop in there.



Pretty sure 7700K and 1700 can be had for more or less the same amount money.


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## Vayra86 (Aug 13, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> Pretty sure 7700K and 1700 can be had for more or less the same money.



With the minor exception of requiring new RAM kits, new board... ie twice as pricy


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## Norton (Aug 13, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> - avoid CM for your PSU, get an EVGA, Seasonic, high end Corsair instead


FYI- that CM V1000 the OP quoted is a Seasonic inside (KM3 like the Seasonic X-Gold series) - that should be fine for any build


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## Vya Domus (Aug 13, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> With the minor exception of requiring new RAM kits, new board... ie twice as pricy


 
OP wants to build a new rig if I am not mistaken in which case both platforms would cost the same.


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## zbam (Aug 13, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> Another good thing to consider when building rigs is future planning / upgrade path. We know for a fact that the real jumps in CPU performance are behind us and AMD and Intel offer solid platforms now that are quite on par, while Ryzen has a definite ceiling in terms of clocks right now. If you really want to go big, I'd say HEDT is where its at. This consideration might also play into getting the i7 now for a lot less and save the cash to go HEDT when it really is worthwhile (Threadripper 2?). Now thát is beasty
> 
> Oh yes another thing, 500GB storage? You'll eat through that in no-time. I have similar SSD capacity and am constantly trying to make free space to install games.



500gb storage is just SSD, I have a 750gb HDD I will also put into the new system.



Norton said:


> FYI- that CM V1000 the OP quoted is a Seasonic inside (KM3 like the Seasonic X-Gold series) - that should be fine for any build



I really have no clue about power supply market, so thank you 



Vya Domus said:


> OP wants to build a new rig if I am not mistaken in which case both platforms would cost the same.



OP wants to build a new rig, exactly. But saving money and getting 7700k also sounds logical, although as I mentioned, I really would like to have the beast I imagine bought with my own money.


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## zbam (Aug 14, 2017)

What do you think about coffee lake ?  I was really hopeful for just getting an i7 8700k to my build and a AIO cooler and be done with it, but it will require a new mobo.


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## EarthDog (Aug 14, 2017)

Totally said:


> Also temps ramp up quickly as you overclock, mine for example sits at 28c stock but after taking it to 4GHz temps shoot up to 45-46c


Idle temps aren't relevant...


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## de.das.dude (Aug 14, 2017)

FR@NK said:


> Save your money and just get a 7700k to drop in there.


true, but the 7700 is pathetic at endoding and streaming, which is what OP says he will be doing mostly.
 HE is better off with the ryzen 1700 as it will last him a few years easily.

I still have a 8320 clocked to 4.2GHz which i got in 2013, still dont feel the need to upgrade it yet. 8 threads in 2013 seemed stupid, but it payed off for me.
more threads  IS better.


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## Konceptz (Aug 14, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> I hate to shatter dreams but this feels like an awfully expensive sidegrade rather than an upgrade. Yes you get the threads for your stream... but seeing how long your previous build lasted, that is one serious waste of capital. Your single thread might actually be a tad slower than your current system and your multi is solely for a stream... In the meantime you're on 1080p which puts the emphasis on CPU single thread performance more than anything else.
> 
> If you were to drop an i7-K on that board you have now and clock it to 4.5, I'd be surprised if you see less performance even while streaming. But you do save what, 2/3rds of the money you're tossing at it now. And you'll probably win about 20% performance on single thread like that while still getting 4c/8t.
> 
> ...



I'm going to have to 2nd this. If gaming is your #1 all focus, pickup an i7-7700k and clock the piss out of it, my boy picked up one this weekend and hit 4.8ghz like it was nothing. Ryzen is within arms reach performance wise, but Intel is still the absolute best money can buy for a gaming system.  Also, consider moving to a fast 16gb (2 x 8GB) ram kit. If your really running your current system with single channel ram, that would be a bottleneck in your current performance.


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## Komshija (Aug 14, 2017)

*Gaming and live streaming isn't suitable for 4C/8T CPU's like i7 6700K and i7 7700K.* Ryzen 7 1700 is a lot better option, but I would aim for the 1700X instead.

Another question goes for a few other components. Why such an expensive motherboard and why the heck a 1000W PSU? I would rather sell GTX 980 and buy GTX 1070 or 1080 along with good 650W PSU.
Corsair H110i Extreme or Kraken X61 for Ryzen 7 1700/1700X? There are a better and cheaper solutions. I recommend 240 mm AIO or a good air cooler.  Specifically, Deepcool Captain 240 EX, Arctic Liquid Freezer 240, Corsair H100i Extreme considering AIO water coolers and Cryorig H5 Universal/Ultimate, Noctua NH-14S, Be Quiet Dark Rock 3 considering air coolers.


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## qubit (Aug 14, 2017)

@zbam Sounds like what you really want is the best framerate performance for your games. Unfortunately, this isn't the way to achieve it.

I say wait until Coffee Lake is out and get an 8700K which will storm through all your games - it won't even be all that expensive at about the same as the 7700K is now. Even more important is to upgrade that graphics card to at least a 1080 if not a 1080 Ti. Doing both will really help to push up those framerates. Remember, it's not the max framerate that counts, but the lowest as that's where you'll see the stutter. And 1080p can still tax a system, especially the more demanding games, so don't skimp on that graphics card.

It's unfortunate that Ryzen is a great CPU for everything but gaming, where it falls behind Intel and that's the one thing that matters here. As @Vayra86 said, what you wanna build looks more like a sidegrade just to go AMD, so totally not worth it.

Finally, upgrade that PSU to something decent like a Seasonic etc. You don't need it crapping out on you.


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## zbam (Aug 14, 2017)

de.das.dude said:


> true, but the 7700 is pathetic at endoding and streaming, which is what OP says he will be doing mostly.
> HE is better off with the ryzen 1700 as it will last him a few years easily.
> 
> I still have a 8320 clocked to 4.2GHz which i got in 2013, still dont feel the need to upgrade it yet. 8 threads in 2013 seemed stupid, but it payed off for me.
> more threads  IS better.



I wouldnt say 7700k pathetic but still it is behind ryzen as far as I see.



Konceptz said:


> I'm going to have to 2nd this. If gaming is your #1 all focus, pickup an i7-7700k and clock the piss out of it, my boy picked up one this weekend and hit 4.8ghz like it was nothing. Ryzen is within arms reach performance wise, but Intel is still the absolute best money can buy for a gaming system.  Also, consider moving to a fast 16gb (2 x 8GB) ram kit. If your really running your current system with single channel ram, that would be a bottleneck in your current performance.



to be more clear, gaming oriented content creation is my main focus. I was already planning to upgrade my memory to 16gb later when I first had my current build back then.



Komshija said:


> *Gaming and live streaming isn't suitable for 4C/8T CPU's like i7 6700K and i7 7700K.* Ryzen 7 1700 is a lot better option, but I would aim for the 1700X instead.
> 
> Another question goes for a few other components. Why such an expensive motherboard and why the heck a 1000W PSU? I would rather sell GTX 980 and buy GTX 1070 or 1080 along with good 650W PSU.
> Corsair H110i Extreme or Kraken X61 for Ryzen 7 1700/1700X? There are a better and cheaper solutions. I recommend 240 mm AIO or a good air cooler.  Specifically, Deepcool Captain 240 EX, Arctic Liquid Freezer 240, Corsair H100i Extreme considering AIO water coolers and Cryorig H5 Universal/Ultimate, Noctua NH-14S, Be Quiet Dark Rock 3 considering air coolers.



Why would you aim for 1700x instead ? Same chip, you just need to be lucky when it comes to the silicon lottery.
And thank you so much about the cooler options I will take look at all of them one by one. So just to be clear you see h110i extreme and kraken x61 are not that good options due to their price points ?
About the motherboard, I want it to be so called futureproof  and no trouble for overclocking potentials.



qubit said:


> @zbam Sounds like what you really want is the best framerate performance for your games. Unfortunately, this isn't the way to achieve it.
> 
> I say wait until Coffee Lake is out and get an 8700K which will storm through all your games - it won't even be all that expensive at about the same as the 7700K is now. Even more important is to upgrade that graphics card to at least a 1080 if not a 1080 Ti. Doing both will really help to push up those framerates. Remember, it's not the max framerate that counts, but the lowest as that's where you'll see the stutter. And 1080p can still tax a system, especially the more demanding games, so don't skimp on that graphics card.
> 
> ...



What I want is not the highest frame rate possible, I am sorry if I could not explain myself clearly. My main focus is gaming oriented content creation. And I am satisfied with my gtx 980 for now  But when I will have more money to throw at PC build I will definitely consider the 1080TI or whatever comes out to market at that time. I believe the PSU I chose for the new rig is decent dont you think ?  I may go for the 850W version as well.


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## qubit (Aug 14, 2017)

zbam said:


> What I want is not the highest frame rate possible, I am sorry if I could not explain myself clearly. My main focus is gaming oriented content creation. And I am satisfied with my gtx 980 for now  But when I will have more money to throw at PC build I will definitely consider the 1080TI or whatever comes out to market at that time. I believe the PSU I chose for the new rig is decent dont you think ? I may go for the 850W version as well.


Ok, that does change the picture somewhat, but then you're relying on better performance on highly threaded apps, which isn't a sure thing. Can't really help you there without seeing specific benchmarks for the apps that you want to use comparing the 1700 with the competition. If you can find some, then you can make an informed choice. I suspect that the 8700K is still gonna be very competitive with it and the 1800X, even with content creation. It comes out soon, so don't buy anything until the reviews come out - and try to find benchmarks for your apps or similar.

That Be Quiet PSU should be good, but I don't know anything about it off the top of my head. I know that you can't go wrong with any Seasonic, though. As always, check the reviews. Agree with buying more power than you strictly need as it gives you headroom for upgrading and the PSU will be less stressed leading to better long term reliability.


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## Tatty_One (Aug 14, 2017)

Just throw a 6700k in that motherboard (or 7700k with Bios update, although some real good skylake deals around atm) and add another 8GB of ram.  Obviously if you have the cash to splash then a full upgrade is far more exciting!


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## zbam (Aug 14, 2017)

qubit said:


> Ok, that does change the picture somewhat, but then you're relying on better performance on highly threaded apps, which isn't a sure thing. Can't really help you there without seeing specific benchmarks for the apps that you want to use comparing the 1700 with the competition. If you can find some, then you can make an informed choice. I suspect that the 8700K is still gonna be very competitive with it and the 1800X, even with content creation. It comes out soon, so don't buy anything until the reviews come out - and try to find benchmarks for your apps or similar.
> 
> That Be Quiet PSU should be good, but I don't know anything about it off the top of my head. I know that you can't go wrong with any Seasonic, though. As always, check the reviews. Agree with buying more power than you strictly need as it gives you headroom for upgrading and the PSU will be less stressed leading to better long term reliability.



I will be using OBS for streaming and Sony Vegas for video editing, leaked benchmarks of 8700k shows that about the content creation intel is still behind AMD Ryzen 7 series but I dont know how much reliable leaked benchmarks are. And I have no hurry this is a plan for maybe longer than 2 months so yes I can wait. By the way the case is Be Quiet, power supply is CoolerMaster Vanguard 1000W Gold Series, it is exactly how it is written in the tech shop website. And @Norton said it is actually seasonic inside, then again I have no knowledge about it 



Tatty_One said:


> Just throw a 6700k in that motherboard (or 7700k with Bios update, although some real good skylake deals around atm) and add another 8GB of ram.  Obviously if you have the cash to splash then a full upgrade is far more exciting!



I was actually looking for some second hand still under warranty 7700k CPUs and the lowest I could find with more than 2 years of warranty is about 290 USD in Czech Republic. So you think it is a better choice ? But as you said full upgrade is far more exciting especially after all those years of being student and broke


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## P4-630 (Aug 14, 2017)

EarthDog said:


> Idle temps aren't relevant...



Once again, if you already got high idle temps your load temps will be surely high as well....


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## Norton (Aug 14, 2017)

zbam said:


> power supply is CoolerMaster Vanguard 1000W Gold Series, it is exactly how it is written in the tech shop website. And @Norton said it is actually seasonic inside, then again I have no knowledge about it


Correct, that psu is Seasonic inside. I understand @qubit 's concern since some of Cooler Master psu's are not built that well, not the case with the one you are looking at imho

Here are a couple of reviews for it
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/CoolerMaster/V1000/

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=344


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## qubit (Aug 14, 2017)

Norton said:


> Correct, that psu is Seasonic inside. I understand @qubit 's concern since some of Cooler Master psu's are not built that well, not the case with the one you are looking at imho
> 
> Here are a couple of reviews for it
> https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/CoolerMaster/V1000/
> ...


Actually, I misread his post and thought that he had a Be Quiet PSU   and hence didn't know what it was like. Thanks for the links. 

Indeed some of those CMs are not that great though.


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## EarthDog (Aug 14, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> Once again, if you already got high idle temps your load temps will be surely high as well....


Yes, it will be high, but, doesn't mean they will be over any limits.. IDLE TEMPS DON'T MATTER (much). Get it through your heads people. 


Not to mention, temp sensors are less accurate the further away they are from TJMax (like at idle...). I am certain you've seen idle temps below ambient before, right?


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## zbam (Aug 16, 2017)

No other ideas people ? I am overwhelmed by the work, give me something else to think about please


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## P4-630 (Aug 16, 2017)

"Intel Core i5 6500 3.20Ghz up to 3.8Ghz"

@zbam did you OC that CPU?

I got the same CPU, mine goes up to about 3.68GHz or so (small OC due to XMP memory profile).


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## zbam (Aug 16, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> "Intel Core i5 6500 3.20Ghz up to 3.8Ghz"
> 
> @zbam did you OC that CPU?
> 
> I got the same CPU, mine goes up to about 3.68GHz or so (small OC due to XMP memory profile).



Well maybe it was a typo or I overclocked and forgot about it  I will check it when I go home. But is it even possible just to overclock the boost frequency solely ?


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## P4-630 (Aug 16, 2017)

zbam said:


> Well maybe it was a typo or I overclocked and forgot about it  I will check it when I go home. But is it even possible just to overclock the boost frequency solely ?



No, it's a locked CPU, but the CPU BCLK can be overclocked if you got the right BIOS but then it will only run at it's highest speed all the time I believe.


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## zbam (Aug 16, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> No, it's a locked CPU, but the CPU BCLK can be overclocked if you got the right BIOS but then it will only run at it's highest speed all the time I believe.



Yes I know about the little details for overclocking a locked CPU, I remember watching videos and reading about it when I first bought the CPU.  Tried it myself and ended up failing  So it was probably a typo, I will fix it thank you 

And are you happy about i5 6500 generally ?


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## P4-630 (Aug 16, 2017)

zbam said:


> And are you happy about i5 6500 generally ?



It's working well sofar paired with my GTX1070, just with GTA V and mods CPU usage is very high when ingame set at 85Hz (I have a 1440p G-Sync 165Hz monitor).
For GTA V with mods I would like a i7 6700K instead, I may upgrade to this CPU next year.
I also have a lot of racing games, it's fine for that.

Overall it's a fine little CPU, good for any game at 60Hz (60fps).


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## zbam (Aug 16, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> It's working well sofar paired with my GTX1070, just with GTA V and mods CPU usage is very high when ingame set at 85Hz (I have a 1440p G-Sync 165Hz monitor).
> For GTA V with mods I would like a i7 6700K instead, I may upgrade to this CPU next year.
> I also have a lot of racing games, it's fine for that.
> 
> Overall it's a fine little CPU, good for any game at 60Hz (60fps).



Why not 7700k instead of 6700k ?
When I first had the CPU I tried to stream with x264 encoder on twitch, which did not end well  really distinctive FPS drop in games then I discovered the quicksync, enabled the iGPU from bios and started to stream with it. Even though it is iGPU doing the encoding work, it still affected my games but so less FPS drop compared to x264 encoder, everything was fine until I start playing GTA5 and H1Z1 KOTK. Even with quicksync it sometimes stuttered, the gameplay of these two games. But as you stated it is a fine little CPU just for gaming.
Are you using stock cooler ? And I am still using the preapplied thermal pasted stock cooler, the maximum temperature I saw was 78 C degree.


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## P4-630 (Aug 16, 2017)

zbam said:


> Are you using stock cooler ?



No, I have a CM212 Evo with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut TIM and I use a Scythe fan on it which runs at a constant 1100 rpm or so.
The highest CPU core temps under load I have seen just over 50 degrees C during summer. (RealTemp)


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## zbam (Aug 16, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> No, I have a CM212 Evo with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut TIM and I use a Scythe fan on it which runs at a constant 1100 rpm or so.
> The highest CPU core temps under load I have seen just over 50 degrees C during summer. (RealTemp)



holy cow that is perfect  I thought stock cooler was not that bad.


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## P4-630 (Aug 16, 2017)

zbam said:


> Why not 7700k instead of 6700k ?



2 reasons:

I'm on windows 8.1 and it seems with a 7700K you need to use windows 10 only, which I won't do
It seems to run hotter than the 6700K


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## EarthDog (Aug 16, 2017)

7700K can work in 8.1... 

So, its only temps...


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## P4-630 (Aug 16, 2017)

EarthDog said:


> 7700K can work in 8.1...



Disable windows updates?
And I would need to update the mb BIOS first.


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## Enterprise24 (Aug 16, 2017)

OC your i5-6500 and call it a day. If you have any question you can ask me. That CPU is a good match with your 980 or even 1080 if OC. Save money for GPU upgrade.

Later when Coffeelake come out just grab a cheap 7700K.


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## zbam (Aug 17, 2017)

Enterprise24 said:


> OC your i5-6500 and call it a day. If you have any question you can ask me. That CPU is a good match with your 980 or even 1080 if OC. Save money for GPU upgrade.
> 
> Later when Coffeelake come out just grab a cheap 7700K.



Well then I still will need a decent cooler, and I do not want air cooler. AIO or any other water cooling system does not fit in my case(Zalman Z1 Neo) so new case+water cooling system I need to purchase. When I think that I will already buy those, might as well buy a new rig   And to be honest I probably will not upgrade my graphics card at least 1 more year.
Have you ever overclocked 6500 ? How much overclock potential it has ?


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## Fizban (Aug 17, 2017)

EarthDog said:


> 7700K can work in 8.1...
> 
> So, its only temps...


Kaby Lake and Ryzen processors are both locked out of updates on any version of Windows older than Win 10.

Though frankly I am confused why anyone would prefer win 8.1 to Win 10.


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## Estaric (Aug 17, 2017)

Okay so I'm no where near and pro at this but I use to stream quite a bit and let me give my honest opinion. For the processor definitely should pick up the R5 1600(x) get a trust worthy motherboard my friend built a ryzen system and it took 2 weeks after getting parts to get the dang thing to work cuz the mobo was a dud and that was last thing replaced. And if you were like me you'll want the best viewing experience your viewers can have. That 980 ain't gonna cut it. Sure the 980 is a lovely card BUT if your streaming youl either want to get a second or upgrade to a 1070 which I'd personally due cuz dual gpu support is awful.


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## zbam (Aug 17, 2017)

Estaric said:


> Okay so I'm no where near and pro at this but I use to stream quite a bit and let me give my honest opinion. For the processor definitely should pick up the R5 1600(x) get a trust worthy motherboard my friend built a ryzen system and it took 2 weeks after getting parts to get the dang thing to work cuz the mobo was a dud and that was last thing replaced. And if you were like me you'll want the best viewing experience your viewers can have. That 980 ain't gonna cut it. Sure the 980 is a lovely card BUT if your streaming youl either want to get a second or upgrade to a 1070 which I'd personally due cuz dual gpu support is awful.



To be honest I am sick of picking mid range CPU from the consumer grade series of the brands  I want something stronger, i7, r7..
I ofcourse want the best viewing experience for my viewers in twitch but 980 always cut it for me, I mean at 1080p there is no game(among the games I play) I could not play with everything maxed while streaming with QuickSync.
Here are my games as far as I remember, : Rainbow Six Siege, CS:GO, Dota2, Battlefield4, Euro Truck Simulator 2, GTA V, Cities:Skylines, Left 4 Dead 2, Arma III, DayZ:Standalone, H1Z1, Miscreated, Minecraft  , Assassin's Creed serie.


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## Fizban (Aug 17, 2017)

I've known plenty of people that stream as their career and have much weaker videocards. You only need a crazy powerful GPU if you plan to stream at 1080P@60 fps, which almost no one does. Most streams are still 720p, heck, most are 720p ay 30 fps even.


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## zbam (Aug 17, 2017)

Fizban said:


> I've known plenty of people that stream as their career and have much weaker videocards. You only need a crazy powerful GPU if you plan to stream at 1080P@60 fps, which almost no one does. Most streams are still 720p, heck, most are 720p ay 30 fps even.


Exactly


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## Konceptz (Aug 17, 2017)

Zbam, have you made a decision? After re-reading everything, sounds like an R7 1700 would fit you nicely.


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## Vya Domus (Aug 17, 2017)

GPU encoding is cheap in terms of performance.


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## Enterprise24 (Aug 17, 2017)

zbam said:


> Well then I still will need a decent cooler, and I do not want air cooler. AIO or any other water cooling system does not fit in my case(Zalman Z1 Neo) so new case+water cooling system I need to purchase. When I think that I will already buy those, might as well buy a new rig   And to be honest I probably will not upgrade my graphics card at least 1 more year.
> Have you ever overclocked 6500 ? How much overclock potential it has ?



My 6500 stock clock is 3.2Ghz overclock to 5Ghz. That is 56.25% potential.
Skylake non K OC is very popular in my country. I see many peoples hitting at least 4.4Ghz on their 6500 with decent air cooling like 212 evo and a cheap motherboard like ASRock Z170 Pro 4. So that is still 37.5% potential.

To be honest you should give it a try even with stock cooling. I see many hitting 4.0-4.1Ghz with stock cooling. Performance should be improve a lot compared to 3.2Ghz stock.


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## Vario (Aug 17, 2017)

If you do buy an AMD machine please let us know if it makes your streaming experience better than the i5.


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## zbam (Aug 17, 2017)

Konceptz said:


> Zbam, have you made a decision? After re-reading everything, sounds like an R7 1700 would fit you nicely.



I am still on the process, today I was thinking maybe I do not need to buy everything at once , I can buy the case (which is phanteks p400s) and the cooler first to try to overclock the i5 6500 and have a nice looking setup, and then maybe I wont even need to upgrade to ryzen and be okay with i7 7700k/6700k or when I do upgrade to ryzen in the future, I will already have my case and cooler ready.



Vya Domus said:


> GPU encoding is cheap in terms of performance.



And really crappy output with limited bitrateif you are talking about NVENC 



Enterprise24 said:


> My 6500 stock clock is 3.2Ghz overclock to 5Ghz. That is 56.25% potential.
> Skylake non K OC is very popular in my country. I see many peoples hitting at least 4.4Ghz on their 6500 with decent air cooling like 212 evo and a cheap motherboard like ASRock Z170 Pro 4. So that is still 37.5% potential.
> 
> To be honest you should give it a try even with stock cooling. I see many hitting 4.0-4.1Ghz with stock cooling. Performance should be improve a lot compared to 3.2Ghz stock.



just checked your system specs, are you for real ?   how the hell did you manage to overclock that much. Well I see you delidded the 6500, I dont think I can manage that but could you please share some details ? how did you get i5 6500 to 5.0 with what steps, and how is it even stable ? And what about your temperatures idle/load and performance gain in games ? And which country are you in ?



Vario said:


> If you do buy an AMD machine please let us know if it makes your streaming experience better than the i5.



Will do sir


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## Tatty_One (Aug 18, 2017)

I am not really sure how you have travelled from needing 16 threads to just needing 4?  No amount of overclocking an i5 is going to give you more than 4 cores/threads, if you manage to overclock it high enough of course it will improve your current performance and if that is enough for you then great, but that is not what you originally indicated, a happy medium in terms of middle ground cost/performance remains in my opinion what a few of us suggested earlier, go 6700k, enjoy double the thread count and an easy overclock, add a further 8GB of memory and you are good to go, if you can get a 7700k for a similar price then great if there is a Bios update for your motherboard to make it Kaby compatible.


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## zbam (Aug 18, 2017)

Tatty_One said:


> I am not really sure how you have travelled from needing 16 threads to just needing 4?  No amount of overclocking an i5 is going to give you more than 4 cores/threads, if you manage to overclock it high enough of course it will improve your current performance and if that is enough for you then great, but that is not what you originally indicated, a happy medium in terms of middle ground cost/performance remains in my opinion what a few of us suggested earlier, go 6700k, enjoy double the thread count and an easy overclock, add a further 8GB of memory and you are good to go, if you can get a 7700k for a similar price then great if there is a Bios update for your motherboard to make it Kaby compatible.



I did not travel  I still want that ryzen more than the other options, but since your suggestion is more logical I am considering to get 6700k or 7700k after coffee lake drops to the market and people start selling their processors with reasonable prices. Until then, I can get into some i5 overclocking  that is my thinking.
Maybe I misled you with what I wrote on the post before yours, I edited it a bit 

And maybe when I upgrade to i7 6700k or 7700k I can use NVENC for 720p 60fps stream with 6k bitrate, it should still look decent at that bitrate and I still will be getting good FPS in games.


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## Vya Domus (Aug 18, 2017)

If you really want CPU encoding for streaming , R7 1700 is without doubt the best choice without breaking the bank.

That 6700K might have double the threads but the execution units are the same. It will perform better , but not a whole lot better.


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## Tatty_One (Aug 18, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> If you really want CPU encoding for streaming , R7 1700 is without doubt the best choice without breaking the bank.
> 
> That 6700K might have double the threads but the execution units are the same. It will perform better , but not a whole lot better.


Possibly 8 threads may double 4?


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## Komshija (Aug 18, 2017)

zbam said:


> Why would you aim for 1700x instead ? Same chip, you just need to be lucky when it comes to the silicon lottery.
> And thank you so much about the cooler options I will take look at all of them one by one. So just to be clear you see h110i extreme and kraken x61 are not that good options due to their price points ?
> About the motherboard, I want it to be so called futureproof  and no trouble for overclocking potentials.


1700X should overclock slightly better. I wouldn't push my luck too much with the silicon lottery, because a few bucks more for a better chip wouldn't hurt. Some people have a lot of luck, but most of us don't. Besides, it has higher stock frequencies which is a very good thing, especially for the people who don't plan to "permanently" overclock the chip immediately after the purchase. Performance wise, stock 1700X will be about 5% faster than stock 1700. That's more or less the same difference between the i7 4790K and i7 6700K - not much, but still...

Mostly due to their price (performance-per-price ratio) and the ability to sell them later. In reality, you will not see any real difference considering cooling performance between 240 mm and 280 mm AIO cooler. Most PC cases on the market aren't designed for 280 mm coolers and only a minority of people will choose 280 mm instead of 240 mm AIO water cooler. That will directly affect their selling price later (as used product).

Pretty much any X370 mobo from the reputable manufacturer will be more than enough for the advanced user and it will certainly allow some nice overclock. Pretty much every reputable manufacturer will have BIOS upgrades for their upper-class motherboards like the X370-series, Z270-series, X299-series etc. to make them more stable and futureproof.


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## Vario (Aug 19, 2017)

1700x and 1700 are about the same just get the cheaper one and buy faster ram and/or a better cooler with the price difference.


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## remixedcat (Aug 20, 2017)

Ryzen 1700 looks pretty nice for the money. Might go for it for my next build.


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## Toothless (Aug 20, 2017)

This is a trainwreck thread.

To those who say a 4c/8t isn't enough for streaming and whatnot the OP has stated he wants to do, I'd like to see proof to justify the cost for a whole new build. 

Get an i7, get a matching 8GB stick, and maybe a better cooler depending on your board and chip choice. 

Then get a job and save up for a better machine down the road.


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## remixedcat (Aug 20, 2017)

the hubs twitch streams with a phenom x4


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## Enterprise24 (Aug 20, 2017)

zbam said:


> just checked your system specs, are you for real ?   how the hell did you manage to overclock that much. Well I see you delidded the 6500, I dont think I can manage that but could you please share some details ? how did you get i5 6500 to 5.0 with what steps, and how is it even stable ? And what about your temperatures idle/load and performance gain in games ? And which country are you in ?
> Will do sir



That is simply silicon lottery. Ambient temp ~30C Idle temp around 30-40. Load temp around 70 after delid and some tweak to VCCPLL voltage. (reduce from auto 1.3V to manual 1.1V).
However most people will get 4.4-4.6Ghz. Performance gain is still a lot if not limit by GPU.

Here are my chart comparing stock vs OC and memory scaling. In this chart I chose 4.8Ghz (150x32) because it is easier to compare memory scaling to normal "K" CPU.

All game test at 2560x1440 with GTX 980 Ti @ 1539 core / 1940 mem and Win 10 64bit.
Cities Skylines 81 tiles mod with 600K population (David City) = Max Setting
Civ 6 = Max setting including 8xMSAA
Project Cars = Max setting with SMAA
GTA V = Max setting including advanced graphics except high grass and no MSAA. Redux mod is activated.
Totalwar Attila custom battle since build in benchmark does not reflect real world performance = Max setting with MLAA


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## phanbuey (Aug 20, 2017)

that ram tho... awesome

great specs all around. (monitor too - have the 24" version )


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## zbam (Aug 20, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> If you really want CPU encoding for streaming , R7 1700 is without doubt the best choice without breaking the bank.
> 
> That 6700K might have double the threads but the execution units are the same. It will perform better , but not a whole lot better.



My options : use i5 6500 overclock the sh.t out of it and go with NVME encoder streaming.
get an i7 6700k/7700k and still go with NVME.
get the ryzen build and rock with x264 encoding 




Komshija said:


> 1700X should overclock slightly better. I wouldn't push my luck too much with the silicon lottery, because a few bucks more for a better chip wouldn't hurt. Some people have a lot of luck, but most of us don't. Besides, it has higher stock frequencies which is a very good thing, especially for the people who don't plan to "permanently" overclock the chip immediately after the purchase. Performance wise, stock 1700X will be about 5% faster than stock 1700. That's more or less the same difference between the i7 4790K and i7 6700K - not much, but still...
> 
> Mostly due to their price (performance-per-price ratio) and the ability to sell them later. In reality, you will not see any real difference considering cooling performance between 240 mm and 280 mm AIO cooler. Most PC cases on the market aren't designed for 280 mm coolers and only a minority of people will choose 280 mm instead of 240 mm AIO water cooler. That will directly affect their selling price later (as used product).
> 
> Pretty much any X370 mobo from the reputable manufacturer will be more than enough for the advanced user and it will certainly allow some nice overclock. Pretty much every reputable manufacturer will have BIOS upgrades for their upper-class motherboards like the X370-series, Z270-series, X299-series etc. to make them more stable and futureproof.



Well I can return the CPU couple of times without any reason and get a replacement  and if you are talking about selling the AIO in future, I really have no plan towards selling my AIO in future, just wanted to get best one when I am buying one.
Thank you for your comment 



Toothless said:


> This is a trainwreck thread.
> 
> To those who say a 4c/8t isn't enough for streaming and whatnot the OP has stated he wants to do, I'd like to see proof to justify the cost for a whole new build.
> 
> ...



With this attitude please do not post any other message in this thread. I simply am willing to read and understand everyone's point of view, naturally everyone has different opinion and I am not just accepting what everyone says here, making my own research as well.

I have a job and you would know if you would have read the first post.



Enterprise24 said:


> That is simply silicon lottery. Ambient temp ~30C Idle temp around 30-40. Load temp around 70 after delid and some tweak to VCCPLL voltage. (reduce from auto 1.3V to manual 1.1V).
> However most people will get 4.4-4.6Ghz. Performance gain is still a lot if not limit by GPU.
> 
> Here are my chart comparing stock vs OC and memory scaling. In this chart I chose 4.8Ghz (150x32) because it is easier to compare memory scaling to normal "K" CPU.
> ...



I have no words.  the performance jump you got is incredible. I will definitely get into this i5 6500 overclocking before I move to Ryzen, I have already ordered the case and the cooler so first step is to overclock i5 6500 and then decide whether to get i7 for the board or move to ryzen 
Thank you for the whole information you provided


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## zbam (Aug 22, 2017)

Enterprise24 said:


> That is simply silicon lottery. Ambient temp ~30C Idle temp around 30-40. Load temp around 70 after delid and some tweak to VCCPLL voltage. (reduce from auto 1.3V to manual 1.1V).
> However most people will get 4.4-4.6Ghz. Performance gain is still a lot if not limit by GPU.
> 
> Here are my chart comparing stock vs OC and memory scaling. In this chart I chose 4.8Ghz (150x32) because it is easier to compare memory scaling to normal "K" CPU.
> ...



Okay so far I have hit the 4.7Ghz stable with 1.415V VCORE in bios. Before I reached the stable, started with 4,7GHZ and 1.35 Vcore and ( I hope it stays stable  ) I kept getting windows10 crash message "clock watchdog timeout" until all the way up to 1.415V with 0.05V steps. For now max temp is 65 degree celcius with corsair h115i quiet profile. But CPU-Z shows the Vcore as 1.424 And Cinebench score is 762.


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## EarthDog (Aug 22, 2017)

I wouldnt add more voltage... looks good.


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## zbam (Aug 22, 2017)

EarthDog said:


> I wouldnt add more voltage... looks good.



Oh really ? I thought I am already getting closer to the dangerous waters for the voltage since this is my first ever overclock. I just got the same crash from windows just a minute ago, my temp was stable at 55C and I was playing dota2 for about half an hour with top settings and recording it with OBS NVENC encoder 720P @60fps 5000bitrate. So does this crash means CPU cant handle the frequency with the current voltage ?
I added 0.05V more now so in bios it says 1.42 Vcore but Hwinfo says 1.424 and sometimes 1.432
What do you think should be the uplimit vcore and temperature.


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## EarthDog (Aug 22, 2017)

1.45v and 90c on stress test loads. 50c idle is warm...


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## zbam (Aug 22, 2017)

EarthDog said:


> 1.45v and 90c on stress test loads. 50c idle is warm...



I meant stable with "idle"  Like it was not moving up or down for 25 minutes.
fixed it now 

I will leave it for long period of stress testing when i stop getting windows crash but since you said 1.45 is uplimit i will not pass that but i will still go up until it stops giving me windows crash.


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