# Onkyo TX-SR508 and TX-SR608 No Sound!



## xDaemon (Nov 29, 2021)

Hello I have 2 Onkyo Receivers TX-SR508 and TX-SR608 both of them sound stopped. Is there any fix or they are for bin now! Thanks in advance!


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## Ferather (Nov 29, 2021)

Might sound a bit odd but is that from the same output device? If so, check another device if possible. Sounds suspect that two devices stopped, I'm guessing at the same time?


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## freeagent (Nov 29, 2021)

My buddy had the 608 I believe it was.. they replaced the mainboard for him twice.. the third time they wanted about a G.


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## FreedomEclipse (Nov 29, 2021)

That's a pretty vague post....

That's like saying _"Both my cars won't start, shall i sell them as scrap now??"_

what sort of solutions have you tried? Plugged it into different devices? Maybe tried a different HDMI cable??

Here at TPU, we arent that great at reading crystal balls.


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 30, 2021)

freeagent said:


> My buddy had the 608 I believe it was.. they replaced the mainboard for him twice.. the third time they wanted about a G.


And, I'm enjoying my Technics SA-EX140 here...


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## bug (Nov 30, 2021)

xDaemon said:


> Hello I have 2 Onkyo Receivers TX-SR508 and TX-SR608 both of them sound stopped. Is there any fix or they are for bin now! Thanks in advance!


"And no one dared/Disturb the sound of silence"


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## freeagent (Nov 30, 2021)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> And, I'm enjoying my Technics SA-EX140 here...


NAD T748 here.. coming up to its 10th birthday


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## Deleted member 202104 (Nov 30, 2021)

I miss my NADs.  Uh...Wait.


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## bobbybluz (Nov 30, 2021)

I have a 608 sitting about 10 feet away from me at the moment. I bought it new 10-11 years ago when they first came out. Mine's only partially dead (no HDMI functionality at all) and I consider myself lucky. If you do a Google search you'll discover that them dying is as common as the sky getting dark at night. Bad capacitors plague them as well as other parts stopping working. I quit turning mine off because I'm afraid it won't turn back on if I do. Great audio quality and they seemed like a true steal for the price when new but they appear to have the reliability of a Yugo.

The problems were so bad that Onkyo did an extended warranty program but mine started having issues after that program ended. 

Onkyo acknowledges failed units and extending warrranties until 2018 | AVS Forum


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## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 30, 2021)

bobbybluz said:


> I have a 608 sitting about 10 feet away from me at the moment. I bought it new 10-11 years ago when they first came out. Mine's only partially dead (no HDMI functionality at all) and I consider myself lucky. If you do a Google search you'll discover that them dying is as common as the sky getting dark at night. Bad capacitors plague them as well as other parts stopping working.


That's terrible! My Technics SA-EX140 OTOH, has no bad caps to be found.


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## xDaemon (Nov 30, 2021)

FreedomEclipse said:


> That's a pretty vague post....
> 
> That's like saying _"Both my cars won't start, shall i sell them as scrap now??"_
> 
> ...


Well, I checked both with Tuner and different speakers and cables, but still nothing! So I can say that I tried all! I have sound to my tv from PC but not to any of receivers!


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## FreedomEclipse (Nov 30, 2021)

freeagent said:


> NAD T748 here.. coming up to its 10th birthday



9th birthday for my Yamaha RX-V573


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## INSTG8R (Nov 30, 2021)

FreedomEclipse said:


> 9th birthday for my Yamaha RX-V573


Think that was my previous one I actually miss it. I replaced it with a RX-V478 for the “new features” like Spotify Connect(which they kinda broke last update) but my old one definitely had better sound…


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## Ferather (Nov 30, 2021)

You guys are a bit off topic, I am guilty of doing this at times, but the last set of posts have nothing to do with OP.

@xDaemon, Its still hard to determine the issue, I would need to be there to see fully, but it does sound like the receivers.
Based on @freeagent's experience it sounds like those models might have manufacturing defects.

Given both devices are now not operating, do you know if you had a surge and if the units have fuses?

Edit: Do the units power on, but no sound?


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## freeagent (Nov 30, 2021)

Yup mainboard problems. My bud bought it when it was hot off the presses. It was through his experience that I won’t buy from that brand. Sounded ok though..


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## Ferather (Dec 1, 2021)

Semi off-topic, but I would suggest investing in THX certified speakers or AV units. THX is an independent body that tests equipment with very strict standards.
If the unit passes all of the tests (seems to range on up to 2000 different tests), it gets the THX certification, and you don't need to worry.

THX Certified Audio - Hear the difference THX can make | THX products finder –THX Certified, THX AAA, THX Spatial Audio

THX and Power Amplifiers_final.pdf (pioneerelectronics.com)


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## INSTG8R (Dec 1, 2021)

Ferather said:


> Semi off-topic, but I would suggest investing in THX certified speakers or AV units. THX is an independent body that tests equipment with very strict standards.
> If the unit passes all of the tests (seems to range on up to 2000 different tests), it gets the THX certification, and you don't need to worry.
> 
> THX Certified Audio - Hear the difference THX can make | THX products finder –THX Certified, THX AAA, THX Spatial Audio
> ...


Nah it’s a dead “standard” if it could even be considered that…even my pretty old SB ZX still has the same THX panel they’ve been using since the Audigy days…


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## freeagent (Dec 1, 2021)

THX wow..

That’s going way back


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## Ferather (Dec 1, 2021)

True, the standards change with time, and the certificate based on time of release, but I don't know of any other way to certify something.
Unfortunately some specs don't amount to much, in some cases a unit with slightly lesser specs can sound better.

A unit with 3000 4.5/5 reviews from non-professionals doesn't certify the unit has best possible audio.


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## thesmokingman (Dec 1, 2021)

bobbybluz said:


> I have a 608 sitting about 10 feet away from me at the moment. I bought it new 10-11 years ago when they first came out. Mine's only partially dead (no HDMI functionality at all) and I consider myself lucky. If you do a Google search you'll discover that them dying is as common as the sky getting dark at night. Bad capacitors plague them as well as other parts stopping working. I quit turning mine off because I'm afraid it won't turn back on if I do. Great audio quality and they seemed like a true steal for the price when new but they appear to have the reliability of a Yugo.
> 
> The problems were so bad that Onkyo did an extended warranty program but mine started having issues after that program ended.
> 
> Onkyo acknowledges failed units and extending warrranties until 2018 | AVS Forum


This. Onkyo quality and name rep has gone down the toilet.


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## Ferather (Dec 1, 2021)

Well, If a company is making a quality product, regardless of their reputation, it should be submitted to professionals to get certified
Not only does it sell the product, it gives the consumer a much better verdict before purchase.

Imagine two sets on Sony headphones, both with similar specs, and similar pricing, both have 0 reviews, one is certified.


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## Operandi (Dec 1, 2021)

Ferather said:


> True, the standards change with time, and the certificate based on time of release, but I don't know of any other way to certify something.
> Unfortunately some specs don't amount to much, in some cases a unit with slightly lesser specs can sound better.
> 
> A unit with 3000 4.5/5 reviews from non-professionals doesn't certify the unit has best possible audio.


Objective measurements.  It never tells the whole story, but its the best place to start and will tell you how amp will perform and give you pretty good idea of how it will sound.  Audioholics has a really good testing methodology, no sure who else is doing it, I've been out of audio for a few years but starting to get back into it.


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## Ferather (Dec 1, 2021)

Indeed, you go with what you have to work with, perfect answer. I guess it doesn't matter what the certificate is, as long as its recognized by the industry.

An interesting read into THX, revealed that the certificate does include all formats (none specified), Dolby, DTS, FLAC and so on.
Some other sites even say that its more accurate in fidelity with DTS-Other when THX certified.

This would also mean having all current format support, does not mean you get the best quality audio.


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## xDaemon (Dec 1, 2021)

Well, I already started looking for another make and think between Yamaha RX-V677 or Sony STR-DN1050 or other which supports 4K!
What is your advice as pro in this category!


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## INSTG8R (Dec 1, 2021)

xDaemon said:


> Well, I already started looking for another make and think between Yamaha RX-V677 or Sony STR-DN1050 or other which supports 4K!
> What is your advice as pro in this category!


Yamaha hands down


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## Ferather (Dec 1, 2021)

Compare Yamaha RX-V677 vs Sony STR-DN1050 (crutchfield.com) (Sony by specs)
Yamaha RX-V6A 7.2-channel home theater receiver (Better)

Some sites say the RX-V6A has THX cert, but I am not 100% sure.

Best THX Home Audio Receivers | eBay


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## INSTG8R (Dec 1, 2021)

Ferather said:


> Compare Yamaha RX-V677 vs Sony STR-DN1050 (crutchfield.com) (Yamaha)
> Yamaha RX-V6A 7.2-channel home theater receiver (Better)
> 
> Some sites say the RX-V6A has THX cert, but I am not 100% sure.
> ...


Bro PLEASE drop this THX nonsense it hasn’t mattered since the early 2000s
My Logitech Z906s are “THX certified” it means NOTHING


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## twicksisted (Dec 1, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Yamaha hands down


My Yamaha RX-673 is still going strong after 9 years!


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## INSTG8R (Dec 1, 2021)

twicksisted said:


> My Yamaha RX-673 is still going strong after 9 years!


Yep still using Burr-Brown DACs great features and sound, people need to check the fine print.


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## Operandi (Dec 1, 2021)

xDaemon said:


> Well, I already started looking for another make and think between Yamaha RX-V677 or Sony STR-DN1050 or other which supports 4K!
> What is your advice as pro in this category!


Depends on your budget and environemt.  Speaking generally I'm a big proponent of two channel audio even for movies as a set pair of $1,000 stereo speakers is going destroy a $1,000 5.1 setup in every way aside from maybe bass quantity (but not quality) and the novelty of surround effects.


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## xDaemon (Dec 1, 2021)

Ferather said:


> Compare Yamaha RX-V677 vs Sony STR-DN1050 (crutchfield.com) (Sony by specs)
> Yamaha RX-V6A 7.2-channel home theater receiver (Better)
> 
> Some sites say the RX-V6A has THX cert, but I am not 100% sure.
> ...


I made online comparison, but I need physical/experienced advice  if I can say in that way!



Operandi said:


> Depends on your budget and environemt.  Speaking generally I'm a big proponent of two channel audio even for movies as a set pair of $1,000 stereo speakers is going destroy a $1,000 5.1 setup in every way aside from maybe bass quantity (but not quality) and the novelty of surround effects.


Well I don`t want to buy last models. Prefer some used but good and not too old  That`s why I need you advice to tell me which are better!


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## Ferather (Dec 1, 2021)

Yes that's what I was going for, for the people on here that know every component in a model, my advice might well mean nothing.
I was only trying to point out a method for you to make your own decision, there are limited options.

I have limited experience, I have not tested or purchased lots of units to test, so hopefully you will get good advice.


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## freeagent (Dec 1, 2021)

Ferather said:


> Unfortunately some specs don't amount to much, in some cases a unit with slightly lesser specs can sound better


I had a Kenwood receiver that was THX certified.. cost me like 1200 in the late 90s/ very early 00s.. that amp sucked so hard, My NAD is 40wx7 

Sounds great 

But could be better..


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## Operandi (Dec 1, 2021)

xDaemon said:


> I made online comparison, but I need physical/experienced advice  if I can say in that way!
> 
> 
> Well I don`t want to buy last models. Prefer some used but good and not too old  That`s why I need you advice to tell me which are better!


Like I said it really depends on your budget and environment.  Do you already have the speakers?  If not how much are you going to spend on them?  Do you have room for a voice matched LCR, and placement options for surrounds?


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## Deleted member 202104 (Dec 1, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I had a Kenwood receiver that was THX certified.. cost me like 1200 in the late 90s/ very early 00s.. that amp sucked so hard, My NAD is 40wx7
> 
> Sounds great
> 
> But could be better..



But with the NAD, that 40w x 7 is full bandwidth, with all channels driven.  It also has massive dynamic power reserves for peaks.

All of the consumer Surround AV receivers are power rated at 2 channel output, often time at only 1KHz, 6 ohms, and distortion ratings through the roof.

NAD is some good sheet.


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## droid-I (Dec 1, 2021)

Currently have an Onkyo TX-NR414 that replaced my old JVC. Now in use as a 2.1 with a Yamaha sub.
Has worked OK these few years, one thing I do not like is the remote, not too user friendly for getting around stuff.
This was a a demo sample so got it on discount, the other candidates at that time were Yamaha and Denon.
At that time heard Denon amps had some reliability issue as well while the Yamaha lacked some features in the same price category.


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## freeagent (Dec 1, 2021)

weekendgeek said:


> 2 channel output, often time at only 1KHz, 6 ohms, and distortion ratings through the roof.


Ugh, I know.. don't you just hate that?

At least mine will do 2x 160 into 4 ohms  20-20 



droid-I said:


> t that time heard Denon amps had some reliability issue as well while the Yamaha lacked some features in the same price category.


The parent company of Denon also own Marantz.. such sadness.


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## INSTG8R (Dec 1, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Ugh, I know.. don't you just hate that?
> 
> At least mine will do 2x 160 into 4 ohms  20-20


Yeah my Amp allows 8 pr 6 ohm and my PSBs are 6ohm so totally worked out


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## freeagent (Dec 1, 2021)

I just have some old MIssion M series from Visions.. nothing crazy. I do have a Monitor Audio FB-210, and its ok.. but it lacks real extension. But its gotta be like 20 years old now for sure.. Still sounds good as long as the source doesn't dip under 30hz or so


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## Ferather (Dec 1, 2021)

@freeagent, I've had models with analogue amps, with massive heatsinks, certified ones. Strange not to see a class-d amp these days.
I'm looking to upgrade my self so the data posts are helpful, currently running: 335 RMS (5x 67), 4 ohms 3.85kHz, >110 SPL.


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## INSTG8R (Dec 1, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I just have some old MIssion M series from Visions.. nothing crazy. I do have a Monitor Audio FB-210, and its ok.. but it lacks real extension. But its gotta be like 20 years old now for sure.. Still sounds good as long as the source doesn't dip under 30hz or so


I at least see you recognize my Canadian made PSBs I was so happy to get them here in Norway they were built like 40min away from where I grew up in Pickering.


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## Ferather (Dec 1, 2021)

Last quick post, does anyone know why manufacturers are not using the sine test for THD (more here)?
I see a lot of 0.1% or 0.01%, but these appear wrong, and maybe the factor instead?

From above: "This calculation gives a THD of 0.118 or 11.8%."


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## freeagent (Dec 1, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> I at least see you recognize my Canadian made PSBs I was so happy to get them here in Norway they were built like 40min away from where I grew up in Pickering.


That’s awesome man! Yes I am familiar with PSB, I used to have a set of Paradigm Phantoms Vsomething.. my babies are my Mirage M490is.. I am only using those missions because the tweets line up nicer with my Center speaker. But those Mirages have brought a tear to my eye more than once..


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## thesmokingman (Dec 2, 2021)

Ferather said:


> Well, If a company is making a quality product, regardless of their reputation, it should be submitted to professionals to get certified
> Not only does it sell the product, it gives the consumer a much better verdict before purchase.
> 
> Imagine two sets on Sony headphones, both with similar specs, and similar pricing, both have 0 reviews, one is certified.


The hell does the certs matter if the ports go bad in 3 years? WTF is this about certs that don't matter in the context of the OP's rec dying?


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## Ferather (Dec 2, 2021)

Audio quality certificate is not a component warranty, why would it be? Edit: When you buy second hand, you want good specs-quality, for cheaper than normal, not the warranty.


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## xDaemon (Dec 2, 2021)

Operandi said:


> Like I said it really depends on your budget and environment.  Do you already have the speakers?  If not how much are you going to spend on them?  Do you have room for a voice matched LCR, and placement options for surrounds?


Yes, I have speakers. Just need good amp which support 4K and at least to be 5.1 . . . . I have room and if I don`t have  place for surround i can do, I am builder.  Just need advice from you, which will be better for almost nonstop use!


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## 1freedude (Dec 2, 2021)

xDaemon said:


> Yes, I have speakers. Just need good amp which support .... nonstop use!


This just blasted out of my brain when I read that post









And I vote Yamaha too.  Sold my V663 and miss it everyday


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## Ferather (Dec 2, 2021)

@1freedude, what did you replace it with? @xDaemon, make sure the speaker impedance suits the AV amp, I still find it suspect both units failed like this.
The V663 is 4 ohm, 6 ohm, 6 ohm, ideally the speakers should match, else you get either amp overload or lower wattage depending on the numbers.

An example, a 90w @ 4 ohms rated amp might be something like 65w @ 6 ohms, if the speaker is 6 ohms.


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## 1freedude (Dec 2, 2021)

Yamaha soundbar and subwoofer combo.  It pulls signal from TV via optical and other sources via RCA.  When I had the V663, the soundbar was the center channel.


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## Ferather (Dec 2, 2021)

@xDaemon, the Onkyo TX-SR508 and Onkyo TX-SR608 both have 8 ohm amps, just so you know the next unit does not. If you have 6 ohm or 4 ohm speakers, you possibly broke both.

@INSTG8R, both Onkyo TX-SR508 and Onkyo TX-SR608 have:

192kHz/24-bit Burr-Brown digital-to-analog converters for all channels


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## AsRock (Dec 2, 2021)

Does it work using the RCA\Phono outputs ?, or does the tuner work ? ( try without DSP settings ). if no maybe the DSP chip is\has failing which is a very common problem with receiver HDMI devices.



xDaemon said:


> Well, I already started looking for another make and think between Yamaha RX-V677 or Sony STR-DN1050 or other which supports 4K!
> What is your advice as pro in this category!



I have 677 unit here and it's not to bad, how ever the HDMI HDCP  meets your requirements as it don't support HDCP 2.2 which maybe or may not be a concern.

EDIT:  If the RX-v677 is on your list make sure the HTR-6067 and RX-A740 as they are pretty much the same units.


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## Operandi (Dec 2, 2021)

xDaemon said:


> Yes, I have speakers. Just need good amp which support 4K and at least to be 5.1 . . . . I have room and if I don`t have  place for surround i can do, I am builder.  Just need advice from you, which will be better for almost nonstop use!


I'm strictly about two channel audio so I'm pretty clueless when it comes to AVRs but between the two I'd go with Yamaha as a brand.

Random side note, I just discovered through some Gooling that Onkyo bought Pioneer in 2015?  My current amp is A9 Elite and it looks like Onkyo killed off all of Pioneer's two channel efforts, thats pretty sad.


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## Ferather (Dec 3, 2021)

The Sony STR-DN1050 won product of the year awards 2014, I guess we need someone who has, or has owned both, and what speakers they used?
I don't think its a safe comparison if someone has only owned 3-4 AVRs in their lifetime, and they are all one brand.

Just saying.


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## xDaemon (Dec 3, 2021)

Today I have played a bit and found that I can get audio from tuner but only in zone 2 line and with my Mission 7AS2 dual subwoofer! I have tried other speakers, but no audio.


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## Ferather (Dec 4, 2021)

Sounds like component failure on the speaker connectors, can you check your speakers ohms (impedance, Ω) please, and let me know.


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## xDaemon (Dec 4, 2021)

Ferather said:


> Sounds like component failure on the speaker connectors, can you check your speakers ohms (impedance, Ω) please, and let me know.


here 
P.S. I found cheap Yamaha RX-V677 and ordered it, I hope will work (fingers crossed), because seller says it`s power on only tested!


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## Ferather (Dec 5, 2021)

Default for RX-V677 is 8 ohm, Setting the RX-V667 Speaker Impedance - Yamaha - United States
Interestingly the failed Onkyo TX-SR508, if the EU version, could have done 4 ohm, else 6.





Either way it was not the cause (*unless maybe set wrong), so good luck with the new purchase.


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## xDaemon (Dec 5, 2021)

Ferather said:


> Default for RX-V677 is 8 ohm, Setting the RX-V667 Speaker Impedance - Yamaha - United States
> Interestingly the failed Onkyo TX-SR508, if the EU version, could have done 4 ohm, else 6.
> 
> View attachment 227689
> ...


Thanks for your time @Ferather  and others who tried to help me! I hope will get help again if I need with New purchase  Thanks again.


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## Ferather (Dec 5, 2021)

I was learning with you, I have never owned an AVR. No problem, it was fun trying to discover the issue from here, seems I failed though hehe.


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## bug (Dec 5, 2021)

xDaemon said:


> Thanks for your time @Ferather  and others who tried to help me! I hope will get help again if I need with New purchase  Thanks again.


Just a heads-up, I own the RX-V675, and after using the supplied mic to set it up, it has the nasty habit of setting the woofer cutoff to something like 30Hz, leaving little to no signal to be sent to it.
If you go through the set up and you're left wondering where the bass went, that's where I'd start. The bass is a little lacking even after that, but that may just personal preference.


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## Ferather (Dec 5, 2021)

What happens if you do crossover to LFE pre-input to AVR (on the sound output device)? For example 180Hz crossover, to LFE channel, then out to AVR.


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## bug (Dec 5, 2021)

Ferather said:


> What happens if you do crossover to LFE pre-input to AVR (on the sound output device)? For example 180Hz crossover, to LFE channel, then out to AVR.


No idea. The input device is usually either the TV or some device casting Spotify. Neither can set the crossover freq, I'm afraid (the TV might, but I don't recall seeing the setting till now).


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## Ferather (Dec 5, 2021)

Shame


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## bug (Dec 5, 2021)

Ferather said:


> Shame


Do you think it would make a difference? I mean, the TV is hooked up over HDMI (obviously) so it will send Dolby as needed, I don't think it plays with crossover. I've set it up as passthrough as well as I could.


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## Ferather (Dec 6, 2021)

I am not sure with AV units, It does with my setup, both PCM and transcoding PCM to DTS Surround. The APO's (PCM), I am using have crossover, and gain.

"I've set it up as passthrough as well as I could." Perfect, but be aware Spotify, YouTube, etc go through the PCM portion of HDMI-SPDIF.
Passthrough (aka Bitstreaming), is for digital audio formats, which essentially are compressed PCM files, not PCM direct.

Edit: If I play an MP3-AAC through my media player, because its not normally streamed direct, its decoded to PCM, then played as PCM.


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## bug (Dec 6, 2021)

Ferather said:


> I am not sure with AV units, It does with my setup, both PCM and transcoding PCM to DTS Surround. The APO's (PCM), I am using have crossover, and gain.


I'll check again, I do make a habit of going through all the "advanced" setting, but LG doesn't do a stellar job with UX.


Ferather said:


> "I've set it up as passthrough as well as I could." Perfect, but be aware Spotify, YouTube, etc go through the PCM portion of HDMI-SPDIF.
> Passthrough (aka Bitstreaming), is for digital audio formats, which essentially are compressed PCM files, not PCM direct.
> 
> Edit: If I play an MP3-AAC through my media player, because its not normally streamed direct, its decoded to PCM, then played as PCM.


Passthrough is for TV (cable, Netflix & co). For the others, it's Android, I'm not sure what that thing outputs. I'm guessing PCM, but the absolute refusal of my receiver to display any shred of info (save for the number of channels) about the input signal is amazing.


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## Ferather (Dec 6, 2021)

Yep, I literally added DTS APO4 to HDMI along with DTS Interactive. Ultra and Sound Unbound on any PCM capable device.

Edit: There is also Boom3D, which has a mobile product also.


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## Operandi (Dec 6, 2021)

Ferather said:


> Default for RX-V677 is 8 ohm, Setting the RX-V667 Speaker Impedance - Yamaha - United States
> Interestingly the failed Onkyo TX-SR508, if the EU version, could have done 4 ohm, else 6.
> 
> View attachment 227689
> ...


When it comes to the impedance switch on the back of amplifiers (if it has one) leave it at 8ohms regardless of your speakers rating.

The most concise and to the point explanation that I've found as to why is actually on these forums HERE. You can Google it further if you want more technical details.


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## Ferather (Dec 6, 2021)

I only buy pre-built sets, where the amp and speakers are made-configured together, if it breaks I get some spares, but otherwise buy a new kit.
My setup is all 4 ohm, which is the lowest resistance (more power-music), 6 ohm is a good average, 8 ohm is the top.


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## Operandi (Dec 6, 2021)

Ferather said:


> I only buy pre-built sets, where the amp and speakers are made-configured together, if it breaks I get some spares, but otherwise buy a new kit.


Well the speakers will certainly work with your amp if they are bundled together the best thing you can do is get the best speakers you can and the best amp that will effectively power them.


Ferather said:


> My setup is all 4 ohm, which is the lowest resistance (more power-music), 6 ohm is a good average, 8 ohm is the top.


Power is just the relationship of voltage and current.  Ohm is the unit of resistance in the circuit and while 4 ohm is the lowest resistance a speaker will typically present to amp it has nothing to do with music power and on its own doesn't really mean much.  

Try this video from PS Audio for a basic description of what it means in relation to audio.


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## Ferather (Dec 6, 2021)

Its effects RMS, for example, 100 W at 8 ohms, or 200 W at 4 ohms. In my case I have 335 W @ 4 ohms, If I used 8 ohm speakers that will drop.


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## Operandi (Dec 6, 2021)

Ferather said:


> Its effects RMS, for example, 100 W at 8 ohms, or 200 W at 4 ohms. In my case I have 335 W @ 4 ohms, If I used 8 ohm speakers that will drop.


This isn't a straight forward topic and there is a ton of confusion on the internet about this.  It affects the circuit and behavior of the amplifier yes but dosn't really mean much of anything.  

Looking at something like RMS in relation to ohms the best you can really get from something like that is if an amp is 4 ohm stable at a given wattage it will have more power than a amp that is only stable at 8 ohm at the same given wattage.  Thats a gross oversimplification though and if you think an amp that is rated at 100 watts at 8 ohms and 200 watts at 4 ohms is going to produce twice the musical power with a 4 ohm speaker than a 8 ohm speaker thats not how it works.

I think this article does a pretty good job of explaining; The Truth About Speaker Impedance.


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## Ferather (Dec 6, 2021)

Was an interesting read.

====

Here is a way of looking at it, and correct anything if wrong, but imagine the ohms as a pipe size, the smaller the number, the larger the pipe between amp and speaker.
The cable gauge, quality and length also make a difference in terms of resistance (pipe size), even Wifi and other radio-efi transmissions can be conducted.

Imagine a 0 ohm amp and 0 ohm speakers, with optical cables, the sound signal should be 100% with no degradation or introduction of outside signal.

A theoretical situation. Now imagine 0 ohm amp and speaker set with 12 years warranty, that's some serious hardware quality.
A 0 ohm amp, working at 4 ohm, and only ever 150 W based on volume, that's rated at 1000 W, should last ages.

====

Here is something that tickles me, in this example we would measure the signal dB, and THD, THD-N. If a speaker reaches its max dB limit, it can alter the signal dB.
Imagine it in the same way you increase-decrease the volume on SPDIF when using Toslink, and having a standardized power circuit for speakers.

As I think about it, I can't strictly see where the Ohms would come into it, between the amp and speakers.


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## bug (Dec 7, 2021)

Operandi said:


> This isn't a straight forward topic and there is a ton of confusion on the internet about this.  It affects the circuit and behavior of the amplifier yes but dosn't really mean much of anything.
> 
> Looking at something like RMS in relation to ohms the best you can really get from something like that is if an amp is 4 ohm stable at a given wattage it will have more power than a amp that is only stable at 8 ohm at the same given wattage.  Thats a gross oversimplification though and if you think an amp that is rated at 100 watts at 8 ohms and 200 watts at 4 ohms is going to produce twice the musical power with a 4 ohm speaker than a 8 ohm speaker thats not how it works.
> 
> I think this article does a pretty good job of explaining; The Truth About Speaker Impedance.


It won't produce twice the power, but it will produce more.

One way to express power is P=U^2/R, where U is voltage (constant) and R is resistance (impedance's poor cousin). So yes, lowering impedance means you get to draw more power from the same amp. Of course, that means more power draw and more distortions, that's why we don't see 0.001ohm speakers


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## xDaemon (Dec 7, 2021)

Well, I have got my Yamaha and it have sound. Updated firmware successfully, now need proper drivers from this site and some one who own that unit, can tell me which is better to use it direct PC to Yamaha and then to TV with HDMI or PC to Yamaha with S/PDIF ? And better settings for it!
Thanks in advance!
Edit : I am with Windows 11 if that is important!
And better cable for speakers wiring! Is That cable good?


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## 1freedude (Dec 7, 2021)

Is the TV used as a television, or monitor?  Try it this way:  PC into TV, TV doing ARC on hdmi to Yamaha.  Hard to put a good answer here.  Not enough info.

Do you have a standalone Blu ray player?  Set-top cable or satellite?  Antenna? Android/apple tv?  Will you use more than one monitor on PC?  Will Yamaha change source selection, or TV?


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## xDaemon (Dec 7, 2021)

1freedude said:


> Is the TV used as a television, or monitor?  Try it this way:  PC into TV, TV doing ARC on hdmi to Yamaha.  Hard to put a good answer here.  Not enough info.
> 
> Do you have a standalone Blu ray player?  Set-top cable or satellite?  Antenna? Android/apple tv?  Will you use more than one monitor on PC?  Will Yamaha change source selection, or TV?


TV is used for monitor and is Samsung UE55JS9000! I dn`t have Blu ray player, only Nvidia Shield 2017!
btw which wifi antenna I can get Yamaha?


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## 1freedude (Dec 7, 2021)

Hard-wired network is best.  If you must use wifi, a standard rp-sma antenna will work


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## xDaemon (Dec 7, 2021)

1freedude said:


> Hard-wired network is best.  If you must use wifi, a standard rp-sma antenna will work


I prefer wired network, but in some places need less cables


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## Operandi (Dec 7, 2021)

bug said:


> It won't produce twice the power, but it will produce more.
> 
> One way to express power is P=U^2/R, where U is voltage (constant) and R is resistance (impedance's poor cousin). So yes, lowering impedance means you get to draw more power from the same amp. Of course, that means more power draw and more distortions, that's why we don't see 0.001ohm speakers


Everything in that statement is technically correct all things being equal which things never are in the real world, with spec exaggeration and how speakers are used in the real usage.  As you said the harder you drive the amp the more distortion will increase, its not linear and all amps behave differently.  The other thing to keep in mind is a 4 ohm or 8 ohm speaker is not a constant rating; its nominal and varies quite a bit across its frequency range.  The more important figure might be the minimum impedance.

I think the only thing you can really conclude is in terms of speakers its not really a sign of anything other than the end result of design choices, 4 ohm speakers are not better than 8 ohm speakers or vise versa.  Most high-end speakers are still 8 ohm and if I had to guess I would suspect that the reason is to keep the load amp reasonable during demanding peak transient response.  Be aware of the speakers rating and make sure you amp will be ok with it but don't draw any conclusions about a speaker based on it.  

With amps on the other hand; yeah if an amp is capable of driving 4 ohms speakers and lists the power figures thats definitely at least a sign of quality vs. one that isn't or doesn't list the power figures.  Definitely something to look at when looking at an amp.


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## thesmokingman (Dec 7, 2021)

bug said:


> It won't produce twice the power, but it will produce more.
> 
> One way to express power is P=U^2/R, where U is voltage (constant) and R is resistance (impedance's poor cousin). So yes, lowering impedance means you get to draw more power from the same amp. Of course, that means more power draw and more distortions, that's why we don't see 0.001ohm speakers


A rare low ohm setup are Teslas. Their systems are designed to run at 1ohm to 2ohm and the speakers are hyper efficient with neo magnets. However this is a very specific design and use case.


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## bug (Dec 7, 2021)

Operandi said:


> Everything in that statement is technically correct all things being equal which things never are in the real world, with spec exaggeration and how speakers are used in the real usage.  As you said the harder you drive the amp the more distortion will increase, its not linear and all amps behave differently.  The other thing to keep in mind is a 4 ohm or 8 ohm speaker is not a constant rating; its nominal and varies quite a bit across its frequency range.  The more important figure might be the minimum impedance.
> 
> I think the only thing you can really conclude is in terms of speakers its not really a sign of anything other than the end result of design choices, 4 ohm speakers are not better than 8 ohm speakers or vise versa.  Most high-end speakers are still 8 ohm and if I had to guess I would suspect that the reason is to keep the load amp reasonable during demanding peak transient response.  Be aware of the speakers rating and make sure you amp will be ok with it but don't draw any conclusions about a speaker based on it.
> 
> With amps on the other hand; yeah if an amp is capable of driving 4 ohms speakers and lists the power figures thats definitely at least a sign of quality vs. one that isn't or doesn't list the power figures.  Definitely something to look at when looking at an amp.


We got all that from the earlier article, no need to repeat everything.
But what you seem to have missed is lower impedance speakers connected to the same amp _will_ be louder. Not twice as loud, not uniformly across the whole spectrum, but louder nonetheless.


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## Deleted member 202104 (Dec 7, 2021)

bug said:


> But what you seem to have missed is lower impedance speakers connected to the same amp _will_ be louder. Not twice as loud, not uniformly across the whole spectrum, but louder nonetheless.



No.

The impedance of a loudspeaker has no relation to how loud it plays.  That's based on it's sensitivity rating.


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## Operandi (Dec 7, 2021)

bug said:


> We got all that from the earlier article, no need to repeat everything.
> But what you seem to have missed is lower impedance speakers connected to the same amp _will_ be louder. Not twice as loud, not uniformly across the whole spectrum, but louder nonetheless.


From a theoretical perspective just looking at the circuit you would extract more power yes but in real world usage is pretty much a meaningless figure.  A speakers ohm rating isn't going to tell you how loud it will be it only tells you what the load will be on the amp, loudness for a given power is the speakers sensitivity.  The sensitivity (loudness) is derived from several factors, the nominal ohm rating being one of them.


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## Ferather (Dec 8, 2021)

@bug, indeed, but it would be nice to see smart speakers [SS 1.0] and rated PSU's on AV's other, many problems solved. There is no reason not to send lossless PCM direct to speaker, via optical.
It's a bit like, here is your rated power, here is your pure (or as possible) audio signal, off you go. The speaker wont go above its own specs, a bit like active speakers.

Since we would be sending a digital signal to the speaker, a digital filter could be used if wire is used over optical, there is also power DAC's.

It's a theoretical idea, I am not an AV expert.

@xDaemon, PC > HDMI > Yamaha > HDMI > TV. Depending on the HDMI versions on the GPU, TV etc, you should get more format support.
PC to Yamaha should not need any drivers from Yamaha, just make sure the GPU or HDMI from PC is up to date.




The Yamaha should show as a monitor device in Windows:



----

Edit: @weekendgeek, take a look at ohms and spl (sound pressure level).


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## xDaemon (Dec 8, 2021)

Ferather said:


> @xDaemon, PC > HDMI > Yamaha > HDMI > TV. Depending on the HDMI versions on the GPU, TV etc, you should get more format support.
> PC to Yamaha should not need any drivers from Yamaha, just make sure the GPU or HDMI from PC is up to date.
> 
> View attachment 228057
> ...


My GPU is NITRO+ RX 580 8G and I ordered HDMI 2.1 to be sure that is good enough  What about this cable it`s good or should I take 4mm!


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## Operandi (Dec 8, 2021)

xDaemon said:


> What about this cable it`s good or should I take 4mm!


Never heard of that brand before but you are in a different region so I may just not be familiar with it.

That said, thats only 18 gauge?  I'd probably suggest 14 AWG equivalent as wire can make a difference and that way you have it for whatever you get down the road.  You'll also want to make sure you using decent banana plugs, spades ect., or just go bare wire but stay away from really cheap connectors.


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## bobbybluz (Dec 8, 2021)

That cable is copper coated aluminum. I'd never use that for anything. 14 or 16 gauge lamp cord is far better than that. How much power will you be pushing through it and at what length? Stranded or solid copper wire is the only way to go. Stranded is easier to work with and is less expensive. I did professional audio installations for many years and the only speaker wire we ever used was zip (lamp) cord or low voltage outdoor wire.


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## Operandi (Dec 8, 2021)

bobbybluz said:


> That cable is copper coated aluminum.


Wow, it is.  It even says so.... I didn't see in the word salad description. 

WTF, I didn't think that even existed.  Don't buy that (and tell your friends, lol), you want pure copper wire for sure.


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## xDaemon (Dec 8, 2021)

bobbybluz said:


> That cable is copper coated aluminum. I'd never use that for anything. 14 or 16 gauge lamp cord is far better than that. How much power will you be pushing through it and at what length? Stranded or solid copper wire is the only way to go. Stranded is easier to work with and is less expensive. I did professional audio installations for many years and the only speaker wire we ever used was zip (lamp) cord or low voltage outdoor wire.


Honestly I am doing this for first time and don`t know which to get ! I won`t push much power, but I prefer to be stronger(if I can say that) The length will not be more than 10-11 meters, so can you tell me exactly which cable to get and about banana plugs I thing to use it without plugs just to receiver and to speakers!


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## Operandi (Dec 8, 2021)

The KabelDirekt stuff looks to be quality cable, their banana connectors look ok too.


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## bobbybluz (Dec 8, 2021)

Two of these will be more than enough for you. Unless you're planning on plugging and unplugging the speaker wiring often I wouldn't bother with banana (Pomona) connecters. The speaker terminals have holes in them for the wiring. Screwing the terminal caps down makes a better and more solid connection than banana plugs. Strip about 1/2 inch of insulation off the cable ends, twist the stripped ends then put them through the holes in the terminals and tighten them. Make sure to observe the correct polarity, the cable will have a raised ridge of some sort on one of the wire sides. Use that side for the + (red) terminals. 
Southwire 55682121 25-Feet 16-Gauge, 2 Conductor 16/2 Type SPT-2 Lamp Service Parallel Cord with Thermoplastic Insulation, White, Foot - Cord Reels - Amazon.com


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## Ferather (Dec 8, 2021)

Don't forget to tin the ends, copper oxidizes increasing resistance. Some extra info here on gauge and resistance.


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