# Radeon R9 290 (non-X) Launch Pushed Back a Week



## btarunr (Oct 30, 2013)

Launch of AMD's Radeon R9 290 (non-X) is reportedly pushed back by a week, to Tuesday, November 5, 2013. The card was expected to launch on October 31, 2013. The reason for this delay? AMD reportedly developed a new driver that significantly improves performance on the R9 290. AMD pushed this driver onto reviewers at the last minute, and asked them to re-bench their R9 290 samples from scratch, extending their NDA till the 5th. The driver reportedly makes the R9 290 extremely competitive with GeForce GTX 780. A side-effect of that would be that the recently launched Radeon R9 290X could be rendered unattractive. It remains to be seen if the driver also proportionately improves performance on the R9 290X, and how AMD ends up pricing the R9 290.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## jigar2speed (Oct 30, 2013)

There is a lot of pain incoming from AMD to Nvidia - Love competition.

EDIT: May be this driver update is welcome party for 780Ti ?


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## manofthem (Oct 30, 2013)

This is certainly exciting news.


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## Big_Vulture (Oct 30, 2013)

So good that AMD exist and manages prices down with excellent Radeons, otherwise we should pay fortunes for Nvidia cards.


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## arterius2 (Oct 30, 2013)

review sites should also be testing whether AMD has been playing dirty with their drivers and false-optimization, I smell something fishy here, you don't suddenly "improve performance significantly" without some sort of sacrifice being made somewhere. AMD was caught doing this a while back to trade performance at the cost of quality loss, so I'm curious if they are still doing this to meaninglessly boost benchmark results.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/image-quality-driver-optimization-graphics,3173.html
http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3688.html
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=332919


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## H82LUZ73 (Oct 30, 2013)

That`s good news for both camps means cheaper in an over worked over taxed over debt world....So i keep reading that the 290x is bios flash-able any news if the remaining locked out shaders on this bad boy can be re-flashed to 290x and then we have a really good war

This is what most guys that bought a 290x should have waited for ,IN my theory ,its if I Spend lets say $459 for the 290 and flash it to 290x specs, How much is in my pocket after ........

So i also think that driver is either 13.11 beta8/9 or 13.12 whql?



arterius2 said:


> review sites should also be testing whether AMD has been playing dirty with their drivers and false-optimization, I smell something fishy here, you don't suddenly "improve performance significantly" without some sort of sacrifice being made somewhere. AMD was caught doing this a while back to trade performance at the cost of quality loss, so I'm curious if they are still doing this to meaninglessly boost benchmark results.
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/image-quality-driver-optimization-graphics,3173.html
> http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3688.html
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=332919



So the Green has not oh they are the almighty Graphics Gods ...really  dude look up the green team also got caught a few times.It is Monkey see Monkey do world you now,Also they both got caught price fixing ......

click a link ........

https://www.google.ca/search?q=amd+...firefox-a&gws_rd=cr&ei=iaJwUujELeWV2QWU1oDwCQ


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## SIGSEGV (Oct 30, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> review sites should also be testing whether AMD has been playing dirty with their drivers and false-optimization, I smell something fishy here, you don't suddenly "improve performance significantly" without some sort of sacrifice being made somewhere. AMD was caught doing this a while back to trade performance at the cost of quality loss, so I'm curious if they are still doing this to meaninglessly boost benchmark results.
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/image-quality-driver-optimization-graphics,3173.html
> http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3688.html
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=332919



seriously dude, what's wrong with you ? 
are you afraid that this card would do more serious damage to nvidia? 


relax dude 




H82LUZ73 said:


> That`s good news for both camps means cheaper in an over worked over taxed over debt world....So i keep reading that the 290x is bios flash-able any news if the remaining locked out shaders on this bad boy can be re-flashed to 290x and then we have a really good war
> 
> This is what most guys that bought a 290x should have waited for ,IN my theory ,its if I Spend lets say $459 for the 290 and flash it to 290x specs, How much is in my pocket after ........



my reliable source told me that this card will have price point MSRP US 449$ 

Someone at OC.uk already tried to re-flashing this card to 290x with Asus R9-290x bios but unfortunately its shaders could not unlocked



			
				Gibbo said:
			
		

> **UPDATE**
> 
> Hynix and Elpida are both just as good as each other.
> 
> ...


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## wiak (Oct 30, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> review sites should also be testing whether AMD has been playing dirty with their drivers and false-optimization, I smell something fishy here, you don't suddenly "improve performance significantly" without some sort of sacrifice being made somewhere. AMD was caught doing this a while back to trade performance at the cost of quality loss, so I'm curious if they are still doing this to meaninglessly boost benchmark results.
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/image-quality-driver-optimization-graphics,3173.html
> http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3688.html
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=332919


hey kid, in the old days both nvidia and ati cheated in 3dmark, that was fun, anyone else remember it?

btw it is possible to tweak/gain moar performance out of drivers and cards without cheating.., and am pretty sure 290X will become faster too


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## arterius2 (Oct 30, 2013)

SIGSEGV said:


> seriously dude, what's wrong with you ?
> are you afraid that this card would do more serious damage to nvidia?
> 
> 
> relax dude



calm down son, seems like you are the one who flared up about me merely suggesting tech sites should take a look at the issue. Not pointing fingers here or anything but a full in-depth review of not only performance but image quality should also be considered.


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## arterius2 (Oct 30, 2013)

wiak said:


> hey kid, in the old days both nvidia and ati cheated in 3dmark, that was fun, anyone else remember it?
> 
> btw it is possible to tweak/gain *moar *performance out of drivers and cards without cheating.., and am pretty sure 290X will become faster too



*moar *? who still talks like that? yea, just keep patting yourself on the back ...


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## buggalugs (Oct 30, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> review sites should also be testing whether AMD has been playing dirty with their drivers and false-optimization, I smell something fishy here, you don't suddenly "improve performance significantly" without some sort of sacrifice being made somewhere. AMD was caught doing this a while back to trade performance at the cost of quality loss, so I'm curious if they are still doing this to meaninglessly boost benchmark results.
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/image-quality-driver-optimization-graphics,3173.html
> http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3688.html
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=332919



I worry about the motives of people like you. There are a handful of guys here who go from thread to thread dropping negative comments about AMDs cards.

 This is a brand new card that hasn't even been released yet. Its perfectly normal to see big performance jumps with early drivers. 

 And BTW, for every negative AMD story, there are 5 stories that Nvidia have done over the years so don't even go there.


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## john_ (Oct 30, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> review sites should also be testing whether AMD has been playing dirty with their drivers and false-optimization, I smell something fishy here, you don't suddenly "improve performance significantly" without some sort of sacrifice being made somewhere. AMD was caught doing this a while back to trade performance at the cost of quality loss, so I'm curious if they are still doing this to meaninglessly boost benchmark results.
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/image-quality-driver-optimization-graphics,3173.html
> http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3688.html
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=332919



You want fishy stuff? How about lowering the price of 780 by more than $100 in one night? How about suddenly getting ready to present a new revision of 780 the B1 that will be called "GHz edition".
I am pretty sure that there is nothing fishy here. They couldn't lower the price a month ago, and they weren't selling A1 chips while having a B1 revision ready for months. 
Keep supporting Nvidia blindly.


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## SIGSEGV (Oct 30, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> calm down son, seems like you are the one who flared up about me merely suggesting tech sites should take a look at the issue. Not pointing fingers here or anything but a full in-depth review of not only performance but image quality should also be considered.



/quadruplefacepalm

Really?? 
Even R9-290 not yet released.. 



arterius2 said:


> what LOL? now price cuts are bad? and companies releasing more competitive products are considered bad? HILARIOUS
> 
> The amount of irony cheerleaders tossing around these days is simply mind-blowing.



so, what do you want to say then? telling all people on how bad AMD is? even its product not yet released? Really? Telling all people on how good nvidia is with the price cut already?


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## arterius2 (Oct 30, 2013)

john_ said:


> You want fishy stuff? How about lowering the price of 780 by more than $100 in one night? How about suddenly getting ready to present a new revision of 780 the B1 that will be called "GHz edition".
> I am pretty sure that there is nothing fishy here. They couldn't lower the price a month ago, and they weren't selling A1 chips while having a B1 revision ready for months.
> Keep supporting Nvidia blindly.



what LOL? now price cuts are bad? and companies releasing more competitive products are considered bad? HILARIOUS

The amount of irony cheerleaders tossing around these days is simply mind-blowing.


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## Roph (Oct 30, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> review sites should also be testing whether AMD has been playing dirty with their drivers and false-optimization, I smell something fishy here, you don't suddenly "improve performance significantly" without some sort of sacrifice being made somewhere. AMD was caught doing this a while back to trade performance at the cost of quality loss, so I'm curious if they are still doing this to meaninglessly boost benchmark results.
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/image-quality-driver-optimization-graphics,3173.html



You would have a point if not for that, in your own article you linked, AMD fixed the driver, bring quality back to what it used to be, with *no* performance hit. GCN was a new GPU architecture.

Likewise the 290 uses a new GPU that is not even released yet, it's normal from both green/red sides to see nice driver performance boosts following a GPU introduction.


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## Rebel333 (Oct 30, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> review sites should also be testing whether AMD has been playing dirty with their drivers and false-optimization, I smell something fishy here, you don't suddenly "improve performance significantly" without some sort of sacrifice being made somewhere. AMD was caught doing this a while back to trade performance at the cost of quality loss, so I'm curious if they are still doing this to meaninglessly boost benchmark results.
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/image-quality-driver-optimization-graphics,3173.html
> http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3688.html
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=332919



That is Nvidia's staff, that is how they killed 3dfx back in 2000. Nvidia manged 5 more fps with worse quality graphics, unfortunately nobody cared quality, just FPS.


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## arterius2 (Oct 30, 2013)

Roph said:


> You would have a point if not for that, in your own article you linked, AMD fixed the driver, bring quality back to what it used to be, with *no* performance hit. GCN was a new GPU architecture.
> 
> Likewise the 290 uses a new GPU that is not even released yet, it's normal from both green/red sides to see nice driver performance boosts following a GPU introduction.



Exactly my point, AMD got caught, so they had to fixed it, and now I'm merely *suggesting* these sort of tests be considered again for future reviews, is it really worth this much discussion? its simply amazing that fanboys get so mad about the littlest things its like women on PMS.


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## H82LUZ73 (Oct 30, 2013)

SIGSEGV said:


> seriously dude, what's wrong with you ?
> are you afraid that this card would do more serious damage to nvidia?
> 
> 
> ...



unlocked shaders or not still a very good card to get ,Just from what the guy tried at OC.uk
To just get the clock speeds at matching 290x is great news indeed.



arterius2 said:


> Exactly my point, AMD got caught, so they had to fixed it, and now I'm merely *suggesting* these sort of tests be considered again for future reviews, is it really worth this much discussion? its simply amazing that fanboys get so mad about the littlest things its like women on PMS.



Nope not fanboys or anything ,Your post made it sound like it is "You Basically accused AMD of driver tampering and never included Nvidia`s tampering or the price fixing" . And your not even running any of the AMD drivers on your system are you ,They have had major improvements the last few beta`s Shit a 20% improvement in BF3 and Bf4 in the last 2 betas(which are at least 3 weeks old) and your accusing them of tampering when your not even using their hardware. So who sounds like the fan boy now....


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## john_ (Oct 30, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> what LOL? now price cuts are bad? and companies releasing more competitive products are considered bad? HILARIOUS
> 
> The amount of irony cheerleaders tossing around these days is simply mind-blowing.



I said that price cuts are bad? 
I don't know what you are drinking but it must be good.


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## H82LUZ73 (Oct 30, 2013)

john_ said:


> I said that price cuts are bad?
> I don't know what you are drinking but it must be good.



or smoking damn kid i think his parents never taught him to share .....


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## Xzibit (Oct 30, 2013)

john_ said:


> I said that price cuts are bad?
> I don't know what you are drinking but it must be good.



He is probably drinking from this... 

NVIDIA Tries To Poison Media With Lead Painted Coffee Mugs


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## arterius2 (Oct 30, 2013)

Xzibit said:


> He is probably drinking from this...
> 
> NVIDIA Tries To Poison Media With Lead Painted Coffee Mugs
> http://legitreviews.com/images/news/2010/nvidia_lead.jpg



looks like you forgot to take your pills today


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## Naito (Oct 30, 2013)

The R9 290 has the same GPU as the R9 290X with just a few sections disabled; so wouldn't this mean any performance gain for the 290 be transferred to the 290X?


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## Rebel333 (Oct 30, 2013)

Naito said:


> The R9 290 has the same GPU as the R9 290X with just a few sections disabled; so wouldn't this mean any performance gain for the 290 be transferred to the 290X?



Yepp, exactly, with that AMD tripple twisted Nvidia.


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## jigar2speed (Oct 30, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> looks like you forgot to take your pills today



OK, I'll bite, what's the pay check like ? PM me the details please


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## arterius2 (Oct 30, 2013)

jigar2speed said:


> OK, I'll bite, what's the pay check like ? PM me the details please



DONE! and welcome aboard!


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## jigar2speed (Oct 30, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> DONE! and welcome aboard!



No no, no welcome aboard, those cheap bastards want me to work for free.


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## Cataclysm_ZA (Oct 30, 2013)

I've just received an e-mail from MSI saying that the R9 290 is in fact on schedule, so I'm not sure what to make of this news...

Update: The launch has been pushed back to 5th November, no details as to why.


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## ensabrenoir (Oct 30, 2013)

BRIGHT BURNS THIS EARLY MORNING FLAME WAR....DARN IT!!!!....LEFT MY MARSHMELLOWS


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## sweet (Oct 30, 2013)

The legendary 12.11 driver comes so soon this time, good job AMD


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## sergionography (Oct 30, 2013)

Cataclysm_ZA said:


> .
> 
> Update: The launch has been pushed back to 5th November, no details as to why.



Why? Because every retailer and their mother sold out of r9-290x lol. Could be very well a demand problem, why sell the same chip for cheaper when its already selling out for a 100$ more


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## Slomo4shO (Oct 30, 2013)

sergionography said:


> Why? Because every retailer and their mother sold out of r9-290x lol. Could be very well a demand problem, why sell the same chip for cheaper when its already selling out for a 100$ more



Because at the time it was $100 cheaper than the GTX 780. Now you can find factory overclocked 780s for less and they come with a better gaming bundle so the reference 290X no longer holds the performance/price crown since the card barely keeps up with factory OC 780s and has pitiful overclock headroom due to the worthless cooler. There is currently no reason why anyone not going with watercooling to opt for a 290X over a factor OC 780. 

I for one am hoping for a $50 price break in the 290X and the 290 to come in at $400 but that is probably wishful thinking


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## dom99 (Oct 30, 2013)

Slomo4shO said:


> Because at the time it was $100 cheaper than the GTX 780. Now you can find factory overclocked 780s for less and they come with a better gaming bundle so the reference 290X no longer holds the performance/price crown since the card barely keeps up with factory OC 780s and has pitiful overclock headroom due to the worthless cooler. There is currently no reason why anyone not going with watercooling to opt for a 290X over a factor OC 780.
> 
> I for one am hoping for a $50 price break in the 290X and the 290 to come in at $400 but that is probably wishful thinking



They better not reduce the price immediatly after launch and leave the early adopters hanging


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## john_ (Oct 30, 2013)

Slomo4shO said:


> Because at the time it was $100 cheaper than the GTX 780. Now you can find factory overclocked 780s for less and they come with a better gaming bundle so the reference 290X no longer holds the performance/price crown since the card barely keeps up with factory OC 780s and has pitiful overclock headroom due to the worthless cooler. There is currently no reason why anyone not going with watercooling to opt for a 290X over a factor OC 780.
> 
> I for one am hoping for a $50 price break in the 290X and the 290 to come in at $400 but that is probably wishful thinking



Don't expect price drop. It is like admitting defeat, it is like saying "Yeah, we do NOT have the best product for that price range".
I would expect the game bundles to come sooner to 290s than what AMD was hoping.


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## Arjai (Oct 30, 2013)

Being a laptop user, HD4000, and not a 'serious' gamer, I hold no emotions for either Nvidia or ATI/AMD GPU's.

As a casual reader of the hoopla here, wow. 

I remember, years ago, being an AMD fan, over Intel. AMD CPU's were as fast and very cost effective vs. Intel. Not so different today. 

Anyways, I bought this laptop because it was an Intel. I don't like burning my fingertips! 

Point is this, despite the jetsam, there is some really good info on GPU stuffs, floating around these forums.

Methinks, I would hypothetically build a computer today, with a pair of 780's with the fancy Titan cooler shroud and GeForce LED's.

If I were to build it, say, next May? Probably, with the 290's, or x's, if a decent cooler and price rolls around.

So, what does that make me? Green, Red or just level headed?


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## HisDivineOrder (Oct 30, 2013)

AMD doesn't care about reviewers that much.  They'll drop products on them at the last minute, they'll pile products together in a condensed fashion, and they'll do extensive product launches many time zones away from their homes.  Hell, they even allow you to do certain, cherry-picked parts of reviews early while letting you do the remaining parts, the parts they lose at, later.

Sorry, I don't buy that you're delaying it for the reviewers.  You're delaying it because you're busy retooling your factories to up the clockrates of your cards post-780-is-$500-ohcrap-what-do-we-do-now? panic mode.  Plus, you're busy sending out updated firmwares to reviewers and sending out new drivers that you hope will eke you out past nVidia.

This is what happens when--without a marketing department--you "reveal" and "launch" a month out, promising preorders but don't deliver for weeks on end.  How long did you think you'd do this before nVidia responded?

I'm gathering AMD thought nVidia wouldn't respond until much later, but we all knew that if AMD seemed on the verge of success with discrete GPU's for even a few weeks, nVidia would end that easily enough.

And so they did.  780's for all!  They're a bit slower than the R9 290X, but they're also a LOT easier to deal with as their premier coolers are quieter, nVidia's problems with coil whine are far less than AMD's, and the hardware is just outright not as hot or stressed to the max.

Most people don't want their computer to actually be better as a space heater, too.  If only AMD had a marketing department (instead of laying most of them off), they might have gotten a product out before nVidia's price cuts neutered their product launch.


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## RCoon (Oct 30, 2013)

HisDivineOrder said:


> AMD doesn't care about reviewers that much.  They'll drop products on them at the last minute, they'll pile products together in a condensed fashion, and they'll do extensive product launches many time zones away from their homes.  Hell, they even allow you to do certain, cherry-picked parts of reviews early while letting you do the remaining parts, the parts they lose at, later.
> 
> Sorry, I don't buy that you're delaying it for the reviewers.  You're delaying it because you're busy retooling your factories to up the clockrates of your cards post-780-is-$500-ohcrap-what-do-we-do-now? panic mode.  Plus, you're busy sending out updated firmwares to reviewers and sending out new drivers that you hope will eke you out past nVidia.
> 
> ...



I agree totally, but be prepared for being shunned as some kind of NVidia fanboy and "how dare you say what you know nothing about" blah blah blah.


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## Arjai (Oct 30, 2013)

RCoon said:


> I agree totally, but be prepared for being shunned as some kind of NVidia fanboy and "how dare you say what you know nothing about" blah blah blah.



How dare you talk about what you know nothing about, blah, blah, blah.



Fanboy!


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## RCoon (Oct 30, 2013)

Arjai said:


> How dare you talk about what you know nothing about, blah, blah, blah.
> 
> 
> 
> Fanboy!



Literally, I predict after all this mess, the 290X and 780ti is just going to be another round of 7970 vs 680. Both cards might trade blows, but NVidia has better power figures, while AMD has slightly better value for money. At least this time around cards are launching at sane prices from AMD.

And then Zeus will come down and wreak vengeance and furious anger upon us all.


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## Tatty_One (Oct 30, 2013)

sergionography said:


> Why? Because every retailer and their mother sold out of r9-290x lol. Could be very well a demand problem, why sell the same chip for cheaper when its already selling out for a 100$ more



Also, to be fair, low stock levels are commonplace with some new releases, seems that manufacturers like to spread the love across lots of retailers rather than hit a small selection with bigger numbers, cards are still available in a number of UK outlets, ultimatly though, once supply is stronger prices to tend to lower as the demand decreases, as you have said they may well try and milk that high demand low supply thing, but again thats not uncommon.

@ Rcoon..... i still maintain these are enthusiast products and generally enthusiasts dont care too much for power consumption, most are more concerned about performance.


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## RCoon (Oct 30, 2013)

Tatty_One said:


> @ Rcoon..... i still maintain these are enthusiast products and generally enthusiasts dont care too much for power consumption, most are more concerned about performance.



Probably true, but I dare say 680's seemed to be just as popular as 7970's until the price cuts happened. At the end of the day *if* they trade blows, some people will go for price, others will probably go for plain personal preference. Temperatures might also be a point of interest to some people, even with aftermarket coolers you never know what the 290X will be like.


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## john_ (Oct 30, 2013)

Arjai said:


> Being a laptop user, HD4000, and not a 'serious' gamer, I hold no emotions for either Nvidia or ATI/AMD GPU's.
> 
> As a casual reader of the hoopla here, wow.
> 
> ...



It makes you a blue, an Intel fanboy who thinks that AMD cpus are hot.




Just kidding.


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## Casecutter (Oct 30, 2013)

Rebel333 said:


> Yepp, exactly, with that AMD tripple twisted Nvidia.



Well played AMD, well played. 

I wondered why there weren't optimized drivers for Hawaii release, now I get it!  Wait for a point after Nvidia steps onto the rug with their price and their new models adjust clocks, then yank it out at the very last minute.  This should play well as figure most reputable reviewers will retest the R9 290X again.  If such drivers would bump like 12.11 provide 7% we have an all new game!

Oh poor us... (AMD) our R9 290X just barely spared with Titan, oh no we will be beat by a $700 OC GTX780...  was that a thud!  So, at first folks figure an R9 290 might at best be par with a $499 GTX780, except now wham it could beat it, and if AMD sets the price at $429... 10, 9, 8, 7...


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## xvi (Oct 30, 2013)

Seriously? I get out of bed, get my morning tea, sit down to an interesting news article and even at this hour have to wade through these comments?

It's very improbable that anyone have a valid source for their claims. Unless you have a link showing something, do us all a favor. Turn off caps-lock, check your fanboyism and prejudice at the door, and start your sentences with "I think.."

I think AMD has some genuine improvements to drivers, not benchmark sabotage, given that the card is so new. It seems like they're being pulled in so many different directions (Mantle, TrueAudio, etc), it shouldn't be too farfetched that they haven't had time to work on the maturity of their actual drivers. Drivers aren't perfect out of the gate. AMD isn't creating extra performance, they're unlocking normally untapped performance.

As I end up saying in every AMD Radeon thread (and others in this thread have said already), those who prefer nVidia should be happy to have competition to drive down prices. Everybody wins here.


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## Slizzo (Oct 30, 2013)

john_ said:


> You want fishy stuff? How about lowering the price of 780 by more than $100 in one night? How about suddenly getting ready to present a new revision of 780 the B1 that will be called "GHz edition".
> I am pretty sure that there is nothing fishy here. They couldn't lower the price a month ago, and they weren't selling A1 chips while having a B1 revision ready for months.
> Keep supporting Nvidia blindly.



I'm sorry, how is it fishy that nVidia cut prices on the GTX780 in order to better compete with the R9 290X and R9 290?

And how is it fishy that they release an updated GPU with better power consumption and thermals and clock it up higher? Have you not seen the news for the R9 280X? AMD is doing the same thing currently... Also, the GPU is not the "GTX 780 GHz Edition". It's still being packaged as a standard GTX 780.


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## john_ (Oct 30, 2013)

xvi said:


> Seriously? I get out of bed, get my morning tea, sit down to an interesting news article *and even at this hour* have to wade through these comments?



Let me tell you a secret

Different time zones. For example it's 18:15 here.


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## john_ (Oct 30, 2013)

Slizzo said:


> I'm sorry, how is it fishy that nVidia cut prices on the GTX780 in order to better compete with the R9 290X and R9 290?
> 
> And how is it fishy that they release an updated GPU with better power consumption and thermals and clock it up higher? Have you not seen the news for the R9 280X? AMD is doing the same thing currently... Also, the GPU is not the "GTX 780 GHz Edition". It's still being packaged as a standard GTX 780.



Is there a possibility that Nvidia could lower the price months ago or at least give a better revision to it's customers months or weeks earlier? I think these are questions that every one who bought an GTX780 the last two months could at least considered. "Could I have bought a better 780 chip at a lower price? Why Nvidia didn't do something earlier? If 290 didn't had that price/performance would we have seen a price drop or a new rev? If 290 was a failure was the 800 series going to be again another rebrand with the new rev chip and just 100MHz speed bump?".
These are questions that every buyer, AMD/NVidia/Intel/whatever should do, IF he respects his hard earn money MORE than a brand. Now IF AMD/NVidia/Intel/whatever is more important than anything, I am asking you all the wrong questions.


Let me clarify this. I do NOT say that this IS what happened. Only that their is a possibility.
So when someone is smelling fishy things in AMD drivers, I say that maybe I smell fishy things in Nvidia's behavior towards its own loyal customers. I could be 100% wrong off course. Nvidia doesn't do fishy things. They are call "features" and "exclusives" and "proprietary".


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## RCoon (Oct 30, 2013)

john_ said:


> Is there a possibility that Nvidia could lower the price months ago or at least give a better revision to it's customers months or weeks earlier? I think these are questions that every one who bought an GTX780 the last two months could at least considered. "Could I have bought a better 780 chip at a lower price? Why Nvidia didn't do something earlier? If 290 didn't had that price/performance would we have seen a price drop or a new rev? If 290 was a failure was the 800 series going to be again another rebrand with the new rev chip and just 100MHz speed bump?".
> These are questions that every buyer, AMD/NVidia/Intel/whatever should do, IF he respects his hard earn money MORE than a brand. Now IF AMD/NVidia/Intel/whatever is more important than anything, I am asking you all the wrong questions.
> 
> 
> ...



Dude, these are businesses, their sole purpose is to make money. I dont care if AMD or NVidia do weird things with chips and clocks, in order to better compete. They do what they do to, you know, make money.


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## phanbuey (Oct 30, 2013)

I love these releases because of the price cuts - - I have a miniITX case so the r9 is just too damn hot and loud to have (although the performance is awesome).  780 it is for me, i am sure there are a ton of people out there in the same boat.


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## john_ (Oct 30, 2013)

RCoon said:


> Dude, these are businesses, their sole purpose is to make money. I dont care if AMD or NVidia do weird things with chips and clocks, in order to better compete. They do what they do to, you know, make money.



Yeah I know, thank you for stating the obvious.


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## welly31 (Oct 30, 2013)

xvi said:


> Seriously? I get out of bed, get my morning tea, sit down to an interesting news article and even at this hour have to wade through these comments?
> 
> It's very improbable that anyone have a valid source for their claims. Unless you have a link showing something, do us all a favor. Turn off caps-lock, check your fanboyism and *predigest* at the door, and start your sentences with "I think.."



Ok im sorry but that is the most hilarious mispelling of prejudice ive ever seen.  Pre digest...whats that? when your mom chews up your food for you before you eat it? hahaha


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## sergionography (Oct 30, 2013)

HisDivineOrder said:


> AMD doesn't care about reviewers that much.  They'll drop products on them at the last minute, they'll pile products together in a condensed fashion, and they'll do extensive product launches many time zones away from their homes.  Hell, they even allow you to do certain, cherry-picked parts of reviews early while letting you do the remaining parts, the parts they lose at, later.
> 
> Sorry, I don't buy that you're delaying it for the reviewers.  You're delaying it because you're busy retooling your factories to up the clockrates of your cards post-780-is-$500-ohcrap-what-do-we-do-now? panic mode.  Plus, you're busy sending out updated firmwares to reviewers and sending out new drivers that you hope will eke you out past nVidia.
> 
> ...



Please tell me you're kidding 
I hope you do realize amd designed hawaii to be as cost effective as possible while performing better than titan right? Titan is 550mm2+ while hawaii is a good 100mm2 smaller in size, amd couldve easily made a bigger chip and clock it lower to get same performance with less power use but then price goes up with that so trust me nvidia selling gtx780 at 500$ is not something they are happy with, hence why they will release gtx780ti which will probably be clocked much higher for better performance. 
As for the factory clocked 780s u keep talking about beating 290x well yaaa i dont think so, 290x beats titan by a small margin and the 780 by atleast 10% so 780 would have to be clocked over a ghz to even start getting close, and when u do that the efficiency arguement about nvidia goes down the drain cuz 800mhz on 28nm seems to be a sweet spot for efficiency but when u go close to ghz poweruse scales higher

In other words your arguement is a bit inaccurate as amd can affort to sell 290x at 500$ while making way more profit than nvidia selling 780 at the same price. So to say amd is screwed or surprised is an overstatement


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## Eroticus (Oct 30, 2013)

Stop the fight ~.~

AMD was always best 4 price ...

World record on performance belongs now to AMD and not  to 4-WAY SLI of Titan~.~ 

4000$ vs 2196$

But we are still waiting to Maxwell chips from nvidia .. i hope price will be fixed and not like always.


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## happita (Oct 30, 2013)

phanbuey said:


> I love these releases because of the price cuts - - I have a miniITX case so the r9 is just too damn hot and loud to have (although the performance is awesome).  780 it is for me, i am sure there are a ton of people out there in the same boat.



I wish one of these manufacturer's for AMD would make a card like half-cut nvidia GPUs. Asus's cute little 670 and 760 are comfortable enough to fit in a mITX no problem. It would certainly appeal to more smaller form-factor enthusiasts.

On-topic, their R9 290 better be competitive with the 780, that's all I gotta say. The price better be right or else demand won't be as high as AMD hopes for them to sell it at a premium when it launches.


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## Casecutter (Oct 30, 2013)

sergionography said:


> Please tell me you're kidding...
> 
> In other words your arguement is a bit inaccurate as amd can affort to sell 290x at 500$ while making way more profit than nvidia selling 780 at the same price. So to say amd is screwed or surprised is an overstatement



To keep it simple I understand and agree to most all of what you’re saying... 

My only thing to add is that these are geldings that didn't make the grade as Tesla products.  So in that vein, can we say Nvidia doesn't exactly need to sell as normal, because they get 3x for one chip from the professional market. While if there's 30% geldings they can off-load  those for a substantial discount.  I see that as the saving grace for these Nvidia discrete gaming desktop market has them in.  Also, why I don't believe we would see a full-GK110, for as you state the cost those they need to keep in the professional, unless even full-fledged GK110 are sorted by power usage and some don't make the grade for professional products.

AMD has Hawaii as a standalone market, at least I've heard nothing of them being for FirePro professional graphics offerings?


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## NeoXF (Oct 30, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> Exactly my point, AMD got caught, so they had to fixed it, and now I'm merely *suggesting* these sort of tests be considered again for future reviews, is it really worth this much discussion? its simply amazing that fanboys get so mad about the littlest things its like women on PMS.



Dude, just... just... get out.

Even nVidia fans ridicule you... You're that bad.


@Eroticus: GTX TITAN can't 4-way SLi as far as I'm aware... But I get what you mean.

Which reminds me... anyone considered the sheer power a 4-way R9 290X Crossfire over Mantle would bring!?


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## Slizzo (Oct 30, 2013)

NeoXF said:


> Dude, just... just... get out.
> 
> Even nVidia fans ridicule you... You're that bad.
> 
> ...



http://youtu.be/PVOL7Fbd6go - Titan 4-way SLI
http://www.legitreviews.com/geforce-gtx-680-4-way-sli-review-on-hardware-info_12692 - GTX680 4-way SLI

4-way SLI/Crossfire is nothing new to AMD nor nVidia.


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## NeoXF (Oct 30, 2013)

Slizzo said:


> http://youtu.be/PVOL7Fbd6go - Titan 4-way SLI
> http://www.legitreviews.com/geforce-gtx-680-4-way-sli-review-on-hardware-info_12692 - GTX680 4-way SLI
> 
> 4-way SLI/Crossfire is nothing new to AMD nor nVidia.



You know you can snip parts out of posts that don't concert what you're replying to, right...
Anyway, I must have mixed (deducted) the part where nVidia kept claiming that triple-SLi TITANs are faster than double GTX 690 (so quad/4x), with a 4x GTX TITAN configuration not being possible. And I'm well aware of 4x GPU configurations, SLi or CF, I was exclusively referring to TITANs in my original post.


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## Tatty_One (Oct 30, 2013)

NeoXF said:


> Dude, just... just... get out.
> 
> Even nVidia fans ridicule you... You're that bad.
> 
> ...



Not sure on that but I am guessing you would need to park your PC next to the nearest nuclear power plant


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## Slizzo (Oct 30, 2013)

NeoXF said:


> You know you can snip parts out of posts that don't concert what you're replying to, right...
> Anyway, I must have mixed (deducted) the part where nVidia kept claiming that triple-SLi TITANs are faster than double GTX 690 (so quad/4x), with a 4x GTX TITAN configuration not being possible. And I'm well aware of 4x GPU configurations, SLi or CF, I was exclusively referring to TITANs in my original post.



Gee, can I? Didn't know that.


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## Eagleye (Oct 30, 2013)

HisDivineOrder said:


> Sorry, I don't buy that you're delaying it for the reviewers.  You're delaying it because you're busy retooling your factories to up the clockrates of your cards post-780-is-$500-ohcrap-what-do-we-do-now? panic mode.  Plus, you're busy sending out updated firmwares to reviewers and sending out new drivers that you hope will eke you out past nVidia.
> 
> This is what happens when--without a marketing department--you "reveal" and "launch" a month out, promising preorders but don't deliver for weeks on end.  How long did you think you'd do this before nVidia responded?
> 
> ...



LOL you go on as if extra performance from AMD is a bad thing, and that AMD wont have better coolers from AIB`s. The only one I see panicking is Nvidia (*Massive $150 price drop LOL*), but wait - that is nothing, wait till the 290 hits.. Nvidia is getting exactly what it did with pricing the 680 cheaper against the 7970. And don`t people think enough is enough for Nvidia milking people as long as they have?



Slomo4shO said:


> the performance/price crown since the card barely keeps up with factory OC 780s and has pitiful overclock headroom due to the worthless cooler.



The 290X is Faster and at the same price/performance even though the 780 is slower and $50 cheaper Duh. I would go as far and say the 290X is a much better deal with water cooling, or just wait for after market cards which will thoroughly trounce the Titan and 780.



RCoon said:


> Dude, these are businesses, their sole purpose is to make money. I dont care if AMD or NVidia do weird things with chips and clocks, in order to better compete. They do what they do to, you know, make money.



Who cares what Nvidia or AMD think or do, its what we customers want or think that matters.. I don't understand you praising Nvidia`s profits over customers getting the better deal.. Seriously you should get out more as your priorities are f`ed up.


Its funny and helerious seeing people getting upset bcoz AMD is squeezing more performance out of their cards LOL.

The 780ti is going to be a furnace, power hungry and expensive. The 780 and Titan is already hot and power hungry once they are overclocked. The Titan at default settings easily reaches 85c, and the noise/heat is not much different for the 290X vs the 680/titan/780


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## ensabrenoir (Oct 31, 2013)

*Silly mortal...*



xvi said:


> Seriously? I get out of bed, get my morning tea, sit down to an interesting news article and even at this hour have to wade through these comments?
> 
> It's very improbable that anyone have a valid source for their claims. Unless you have a link showing something, do us all a favor. *Turn off caps-lock*, check your fanboyism and prejudice at the door, and start your sentences with "I think.."
> Snip..
> ...


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## el etro (Oct 31, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> review sites should also be testing whether AMD has been playing dirty with their drivers and false-optimization, I smell something fishy here, you don't suddenly "improve performance significantly" without some sort of sacrifice being made somewhere. AMD was caught doing this a while back to trade performance at the cost of quality loss, so I'm curious if they are still doing this to meaninglessly boost benchmark results.
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/image-quality-driver-optimization-graphics,3173.html
> http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3688.html
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=332919



 2 and 3 are FUD! The first of the link are a joke!


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## Eagleye (Oct 31, 2013)

arterius2 said:


> review sites should also be testing whether AMD has been playing dirty with their drivers and false-optimization, I smell something fishy here, you don't suddenly "improve performance significantly" without some sort of sacrifice being made somewhere. AMD was caught doing this a while back to trade performance at the cost of quality loss, so I'm curious if they are still doing this to meaninglessly boost benchmark results.
> 
> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/image-quality-driver-optimization-graphics,3173.html
> http://www.semiaccurate.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-3688.html
> http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=332919



Remember the Nvidia FSAA cheat? You could select "8xFSAA" in the display controls and without telling you, it would drop back to 4x or 2x depending on the resolution you were running.

Nvidia deliberately slowing down games coz it slows down the radeons more
http://techreport.com/review/21404/crysis-2-tessellation-too-much-of-a-good-thing

AMD Alleges NVIDIA Cheats in HD HQV
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8608

Futuremark confirms nVidia is cheating in benchmark
http://www.geek.com/games/futuremark-confirms-nvidia-is-cheating-in-benchmark-553361/

Nvidia cheats on 3DMark with 177.39 drivers
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1048824/nvidia-cheats-3dmark-177-drivers

nVidia cheating with HAWX optimisations to fake benchmark figures
http://www.kitguru.net/forum/nvidia...awx-optimisations-fake-benchmark-figures.html

*The List is endless, and I just wanted to open your eyes to the fact Nvidia is no Angel and have a history of bad tactics.*

Oh and remember this. see below.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/02/09/nvidias-manchurian-fans-shill-for-gear/
http://consumerist.com/2006/02/06/did-nvidia-hire-online-actors-to-promote-their-products/
http://forum.xbitlabs.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=9649
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1668756

Again the list is endless.


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## xvi (Oct 31, 2013)

Drivers aren't perfect at release. It's not too terribly farfetched that AMD found an improvement to code.

As for the "cheating at benchmarks" thing, almost _EVERYONE_ does it. Good reviews will test for this.



welly31 said:


> Ok im sorry but that is the most hilarious mispelling of prejudice ive ever seen.  Pre digest...whats that? when your mom chews up your food for you before you eat it? hahaha



Ah. It was early in the morning for me and I made the mistake of blindly trusting Firefox's built-in dictionary, a mistake I make all too often. Corrected.



NeoXF said:


> Which reminds me... anyone considered the sheer power a 4-way R9 290X Crossfire over Mantle would bring!?



I'd imagine AMD would have to re-think how CrossFire works for Mantle. If I'm not mistaken, they had to work on implementation for both DirectX and OpenGL somewhat separately, or at the very least. I'm no Mantle engineer though.

AMD seems to have a few good things going for it in the near future. Should be interesting to see how this unfolds for both sides.


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