# Noob network question



## FreedomEclipse (Jan 21, 2011)

I cant believe i need to ask since I did study computer networking back in college (a few moons ago) but anyway....

I need a Cat 6E network cable to support PC to PC data transfers - whats the difference between a full on Cat 6E UTP cable and a Cat 6E UTP *PATCH* cable??

the only length amazon do is 5m for the full on Cat 6E - but i dont need it that long, I was wondering if it was possible to get away with just using a 2m Cat 6E patch cable.

----

That being said - Im not 100% sure about what sort of cable im currently running with, I think its Cat 5E but it doesnt say on the cable. - but both computers connect up at 1 Gigabit but maximum throughput of the cable seems to be around 2-7mb when transfering big files.

I just wanted to play it safe and ask before i put in an order


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## erixx (Jan 21, 2011)

Maybe 'patch' is for direct connection between 2 client pc's and 'non patch' for using it with a router?


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## Rule-R (Jan 21, 2011)

A patch cable is used to link 2 pc's together without connecting it to the internet. This way you dont need a switch. For instance when i want to transfer files from my laptop to my pc I use a patch cable instead of wireless (faster connection).

With a patch cable you cant connect to the internet because the wires are in a different order, thus plugging it in a router/modem or switch wont work.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 21, 2011)

So even if 1 PC has the internet and configured to share it with others through the network it still wont work? 1 guy on amazon said he used the same cable to hook his PS3 upto the router


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## Rule-R (Jan 21, 2011)

Afaik theoretically you can use one ethernet port on a pc to receive internet and a second to transport it via patch cable to a second pc. But afaik it remains impossible to connect a pc to a router/modem/switch by patch cable.


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## erixx (Jan 21, 2011)

Exactly! I have been doing that for years, before I got a router: 1 patched cable between 2 pcs (sharing files and internet), and 1 non patched from 1 pc to the modem,,,,


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## Solaris17 (Jan 21, 2011)

A: Patch cable PC to PC

B: Straight cable PC to hub etc etc.


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## slyfox2151 (Jan 21, 2011)

Solaris17 said:


> http://www.zytrax.com/images/cat5_cross_100_both.gif
> 
> 
> A: Patch cable PC to PC
> ...



im 99% certain a patch cable is a normal straight through cable designed for connecting pc's with switches or routers.... the other would be called a crossover cable, designed for connecting a pc directly to a pc or a rotuer to a rotuer. 




cat 5e can easily handle gigabit connections at 100MBps+  over 40 meters.


also cat 6e is not a standard afaik.....  there is cat 5e cat 6 and cat 6a..... 



most new switches, rotuers and even network cards now auto detect what type of cable is it.... it doesnt mater if the cable is a patch/crossover/straigth through, it will sort it self out.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 21, 2011)

well, I just orderd a 2m Cat6 patch cable - hopefully this will do what i need it to

(I connect to another PC for my internets and i need to share a lot of files between these 2 systems - So if this doesnt work, Im gonna send it back)


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## slyfox2151 (Jan 21, 2011)

FreedomEclipse said:


> well, I just orderd a 2m Cat6 patch cable - hopefully this will do what i need it to
> 
> (I connect to another PC for my internets and i need to share a lot of files between these 2 systems - So if this doesnt work, Im gonna send it back)



if it doesnt work then you will need a switch or router.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 21, 2011)

Its all good anyway - I just found out the current cable im am using IS a Cat 5E Patch cable. It supports 1Gigbit networking but transfer rates seem so slow.

I think it is the cable thats holding me back as I just upgraded the networkcard in the other PC from 100mb nic to a Giga nic but there is a little improvement - Im hitting 7mb when transfering files when the 100mb would only ever hit about 5mb - but I saw 5mb a lot more often then 7mb - im still transfering files and so far its averaging around 2-4mb/s

Ive been thinking about putting an unmanaged gigaswitch in but at the moment i really dont need it. so maybe thats another issue i should be looking at


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## slyfox2151 (Jan 21, 2011)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Its all good anyway - I just found out the current cable im am using IS a Cat 5E Patch cable. It supports 1Gigbit networking but transfer rates seem so slow.
> 
> I think it is the cable thats holding me back as I just upgraded the networkcard in the other PC from 100mb nic to a Giga nic but there is a little improvement - Im hitting 7mb when transfering files when the 100mb would only ever hit about 5mb - but I saw 5mb a lot more often then 7mb - im still transfering files and so far its averaging around 2-4mb/s
> 
> Ive been thinking about putting an unmanaged gigaswitch in but at the moment i really dont need it. so maybe thats another issue i should be looking at



i really doubt its the cable, its more likely to be one of the PC's holding it back, 

what OS are both pc's using? what sort of HDDs... are they full? heavily fragmented? theres a lot more of varibles in networking that will affect the speed... i can reach 90-110MBps from my pc to my cousins, however i can only get 55MBps to my laptop... and 40MBps to my dads PC.

my cousin and i use windows 7 that has been tweaked a little bit, my dad is on vista SP1, the laptop is also on  7 but the HDDs just dont go faster then 60MBps.


file size would have one of the biggest impacts on performance, very small files can and will be sent slower then 1MBps..... however 1 large file.. say over 1GB will be sent much faster.

with gigabit networks, HDDS quickly become the limiting factor, but you should definetly be able to go faster then 7MBps.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 21, 2011)

well, my rig is W7 but the one im transfering files from is XP Pro. Ive googled XP network tweaks and I know that XP tends to reserve 20% of the overall network bandwidth so ive changed that.

the hard drives in it are old gen IDE drives so that could be another reason why everythings so slow. (I really need to upgrade this download rig)


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## slyfox2151 (Jan 21, 2011)

FreedomEclipse said:


> well, my rig is W7 but the one im transfering files from is XP Pro. Ive googled XP network tweaks and I know that XP tends to reserve 20% of the overall network bandwidth so ive changed that.
> 
> the hard drives in it are old gen IDE drives so that could be another reason why everythings so slow. (I really need to upgrade this download rig)



7 to XP could be causing a slow down, the 20% reserve will have NO EFFECT at all so there is no need to change that. its likely windows 7 will have the same setting.



i also find files might transfer faster when you pull them rather then push them, what i mean by that is use the pc that is going to recive the files to start the transfer, pull them from the other pc, dont push them to the PC... if that makes sence.




if you are sending a few small files then that older drive will definetly be slowing you down. try sending a single large file and see what speed you get... such as a 1GB .rar or .iso file..... or even a movie.




EDIT:
open up your task manager (CTRL + ALT + ESC) and click on networking, double check the link speed on both pc's and make sure they both say 1Gbps and not 100mbps.


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## brandonwh64 (Jan 21, 2011)

I will take a picture today and show you what patch cables are


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 21, 2011)

slyfox2151 said:


> 7 to XP could be causing a slow down, the 20% reserve will have NO EFFECT at all so there is no need to change that. its likely windows 7 will have the same setting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'l get around to that later as im currently in the middle of a big file transfer (a few gigs worth)

but lets just say - If i was to transfer a 9gb Zip or rar'd file - it would take me almost a day for it to complete lmao I usually just leave everything transfering overnight while i sleep

(and yes - both systems are connected at 1Gbps)


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## slyfox2151 (Jan 21, 2011)

brandonwh64 said:


> I will take a picture today and show you what patch cables are



what will a picture show?  a patch cable is physicaly the same as a crossover cable, except for 1 or 2 wires are joined to different locations inside the cable....


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## Completely Bonkers (Jan 21, 2011)

Man, there is so much nonsense in this thread, it is terrible.

A patch cable IS NOT, _de facto_, a crossover cable.

A patch cable is the type of cable you use (in a patch panel) for connecting FIXED LOCATION devices.  For example, between a patch panel and a network switch.  The cable is short, it is stiff, and it has high shielding, to avoid crosstalk/interference, with the (potentially) tens or hundreds of OTHER patch cables that are close to it.

It is kink resistant... but it you flex or bend it by large angles and very often, there is risk of damaging the cable.

Whereas a regular flex cable is designed to be run longer distances to a movable device, or is likely to be used for frequent plugging/unplugged or devices that move a lot.  It is designed to be flexible and the lower shielding is fine in a space/environment where there is limited risk of crosstalk/interference. 

A network cable on your desk is like this.  If you used a patch cable, yes it would work fine, but the cable would be thicker and stiffer and not so user-friendly from frequent plugging and unplugging.

BOTH flex network cable and patch cables HAVE IDENTICAL pinouts.

If it "works" with a flex network cable it "works" with a patch cable, notwithstanding the design-for-use comments I made above.

If you link 2 PC directly without a hub, router or network switch, then you need a CROSSOVER cable.  You can get a crossover in both patch and flex formats.

However, many modern ethernet ports are what is called "autosensing" which means you can use either a regular or a crossover cable to do the job. The chip senses how data is being transmitted and uses it appropriately, meaning either cable will work.  But this feature is usually put into a modern switch/hub and less so on the PC side... so I would still recommend getting the CROSSOVER FLEX CAT5/6 NETWORK cable for your job.  If you got a crossover patch cable it would be heavier, more expensive, and stiffer but would work fine.

The wiring standard/colour coding of TIA/EIA 568A/B are a red-herring and not relevant to this discussion.


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## brandonwh64 (Jan 21, 2011)

slyfox2151 said:


> what will a picture show?  a patch cable is physicaly the same as a crossover cable, except for 1 or 2 wires are joined to different locations inside the cable....



Correction, A patch panel or patch bay is a panel, typically rack mounted, that houses cable connections. One typically shorter patch cable will plug into the front side, whereas the back holds the connection of a much longer and more permanent cable.

Here is one of our temp rooms until the new server rooms are finished (we will have 3 20x20ft server rooms with dual 20K BTU AC units  ) This shows what is called a patch panel, the main drops come in here and connect to the patch panel then we use cat6 PATCH cord to connect the panel to the switch. Thus making it easier to configure what drop does what.










Our network runs machines like this






More info on ALSTOM POWER


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 21, 2011)

Completely Bonkers said:


> Man, there is so much nonsense in this thread, it is terrible.
> 
> A patch cable IS NOT, _de facto_, a crossover cable.
> 
> ...



well - Ive been using patch cables since as far as i know (lol) and they have done what i want them to but like i said - if this new patch cable doesnt work then i'l send it back and get a full on UTP Cat6E cable instead - i just thought i could save a bit of money by getting a patch cable instead


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## brandonwh64 (Jan 21, 2011)

If you want to do a straight PC to PC connection with using just 1 CAT5E or CAT6 then set both PCs to something like:

PC1
IP: 192.168.1.100
Subnetmask: 255.255.255.255
Defualt Gateway: 192.168.1.1

PC1
IP: 192.168.1.101
Subnetmask: 255.255.255.255
Defualt Gateway: 192.168.1.1

Then directly connect them together and this will create its own 2 client network for file sharing and stuff


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## Frick (Jan 21, 2011)

Completely Bonkers said:


> However, many modern ethernet ports are what is called "autosensing" which means you can use either a regular or a crossover cable to do the job. The chip senses how data is being transmitted and uses it appropriately, meaning either cable will work.  But this feature is usually put into a modern switch/hub and less so on the PC side... so I would still recommend getting the CROSSOVER FLEX CAT5/6 NETWORK cable for your job.  If you got a crossover patch cable it would be heavier, more expensive, and stiffer but would work fine.



I believe it's called Auto MDIX or something like it.

BTW, are that patch cables you're talking about? It sounds like you're talking FTP cables. 

EDIT: It should be noted I'm not totally in the know on what these cables are called in english.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 21, 2011)

nope - I already said they were UTP cables


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## Completely Bonkers (Jan 21, 2011)

Nice pictures brandon.  And good example of patch cables at work and why patch cables have high shielding and low interference low crosstalk ratings.

If you are managing this network - can I politely refer you to the first picture with the "dangling power strip".  That won't pass a safety/compliance inspection: get a rack mounted powerstrip that is far more secure/robust/reliable/safe http://www.google.co.uk/images?um=1...q=rack+mounted+power+strip&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=


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## brandonwh64 (Jan 21, 2011)

Completely Bonkers said:


> Nice pictures brandon.  And good example of patch cables at work and why patch cables have high shielding and low interference low crosstalk ratings.
> 
> If you are managing this network - can I politely refer you to the first picture with the "dangling power strip".  That won't pass a safety/compliance inspection: get a rack mounted powerstrip that is far more secure/robust/reliable/safe http://www.google.co.uk/images?um=1...q=rack+mounted+power+strip&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=



This is our temp cabinet but you are right, im guessing one of our contractors that install the cables knocked it off. i just put it back on the rack in it proper place. yea it looks a mess. 

Here is were the temp goes out the wall.






Here are some shots of the new north server room. it should be completed around march 01


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## newtekie1 (Jan 21, 2011)

FreedomEclipse said:


> well - Ive been using patch cables since as far as i know (lol) and they have done what i want them to but like i said - if this new patch cable doesnt work then i'l send it back and get a full on UTP Cat6E cable instead - i just thought i could save a bit of money by getting a patch cable instead



I can almost guarantee you it isn't the cable holding you back.

My entire house is run with Cat5e cable, and I can get 120MB/s+(notice the big B) transfer rates on my Gigabit network.  And that is over long runs of cable, going from the second story bedroom to the basement that houses my servers.  Not to mention I've set up hundreds of networks with Cat5e and Gigabit works just fine.

If both machines have a Gigabit card, and the cable you are using is definitely good(cable can go bad), then you should be seeing way faster speeds than that.  Even when I switch the network over to 100m, I still get transfer speeds between 9-10MB/s, so if you're only seeing 5-7MB/s there is something else holding you back. I would bet that old hard drive is the cause, it probably can't go any faster.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 21, 2011)

well the cable I am using - I stole it from college back in 2003/04 and god knows how long theyve had it for (or what theyve done with it for that matter) 

this new patch cable cost about £3 ($4.77?) anyway so its not exactly much of a loss if It turns out its not the cable thats the issue. but its just one of the things taken out of the equasion so i can look at other things that can be slowing it down like the hard drives.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 21, 2011)

are there any tools available that you can use to test the speed of a network?


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## newtekie1 (Jan 21, 2011)

Transferring large files over it between two RAID arrays is usually how I do it.


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