# i7-8750H Underperforming and Throttling



## pak209 (Jul 8, 2020)

Hi everyone,
i have bought a MSI Ge75 8se for about 5 months. After 3 months of use and I felt that my device was always running hot (~ 60-65 idle and ~ 90-96 gaming). So I decided to clean, repaste cpu and use throttlestop to undervolt. Then the temperature dropped amazingly (~ 40-45 idle and ~ 55-70 gaming). Until recently, the temperature increased by about 10 when gaming and fps drop when gaming pretty much. I did a bit of throttlestop research and tried some methods but it still didn't seem to get better.

My Cinebench R20 only reaches 2170pts. With Prime95 stress test  i think my CPU lower down to 3,3 GHz when cpu reaches above 80 and in TS  shows a red "POWER" next to Limits.

Also i want to ask about the maximum wattage i7-8750h. In TS, next to PKG Power, max wattage only shows 35.4W. Is that normal? I thought it suppose to be 45W.


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## AOne (Jul 8, 2020)

It's the paste you're using. Old generation of pastes have lower max temp and quickly degrade over short period of time (personal experience). Try better paste with higher temp range.


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## pak209 (Jul 8, 2020)

AOne said:


> It's the paste you're using. Old generation of pastes have lower max temp and quickly degrade over short period of time (personal experience). Try better paste with higher temp range.


I am using the Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, thought that would be a good choice since my friends recommended me to use that. Can you suggest any good options? I don't really know much about the thermal paste stuff.


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## unclewebb (Jul 8, 2020)

The 8750H has a 45W TDP rating but it also has a 35W Configurable TDP-low mode.









						Product Specifications
					

quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.




					ark.intel.com
				




It looks like your CPU is getting forced into low power 35W mode. Few manufacturers use this feature but any OEM has the option to use this. In the ThrottleStop TPL window you can try checking the TDP Level Control box. When Cinebench R20 is running, try changing this from 0 to 1 to 2 if those values are supported. The problem is that the TDP Level Control can be set in multiple locations that ThrottleStop does not have access to. Without access to hardware with this issue, I never got around to solving this problem.

Have a look in the Device Manager for the Intel dynamic platform and thermal framework driver. This driver might be forcing your CPU into 35W mode. Do some Google searching about ways to disable and uninstall this driver. There are a few tricks you have to do to prevent this driver from being reinstalled again and again.

Also look into some of the hidden options in the Windows Power Plan you are using. The TDP Level and wattage value can be hiding in there. In a command window use,

*powercfg -qh >C:\power.txt*

This will create a fill called power.txt and it will be in your main C: directory. Attach it to your next post and I will have a look to see if I can find this setting.

Also try switching to different Windows power profiles while Cinebench is running. Maybe only one power plan is screwed up.

I think HWiNFO can report what TDP Level your CPU is operating in.


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## AOne (Jul 8, 2020)

pak209 said:


> I am using the Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, thought that would be a good choice since my friends recommended me to use that. Can you suggest any good options? I don't really know much about the thermal paste stuff.


I've tried with MX4, Arctic 5 and others, but the one that fixes my issue was Noctua HT-H2. It has almost twice the upper thermal max work temp than HT-H1. With all the previously mentioned, it was all good the first 4-5 days and then after 10 days up to two weeks all went wrong again with thermal throttling. I know I sound like commercial agent, but this is from my own experience. Apply very thin, evenly spread layer of paste and follow strictly the tightening order. If it doesn't happen from the first try, don't hesitate to make a new attempt.


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## unclewebb (Jul 8, 2020)

@AOne - His screenshot shows power limit throttling (PL2) at 35W. His CPU temperature is only 67°C when this happens so this does not appear to be a temperature related issue. There might be a temperature sensor in his laptop that has gone bad that is forcing the CPU into 35W mode but the CPU temperature itself seems to be fine.


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## AOne (Jul 8, 2020)

"Then the temperature dropped amazingly (~ 40-45 idle and ~ 55-70 gaming). Until recently, the temperature increased by about 10"
I agree with you UnncleWeb, but I was referring to his rise in temp after certain time


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## pak209 (Jul 8, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> The 8750H has a 45W TDP rating but it also has a 35W Configurable TDP-low mode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Omg Unclewebb i want to say thanks first, because i have read your throttlestop guide(really good guide) and it really helped a beginner like me to understand more about ts and where to start.

I shutdown my laptop for about an hour and when i turn it on, my Max power changes to 39.5W when i open chrome. Unfortunately i didn't see "Intel dynamic platform and thermal framework" in the device manager, but there is an article about disable it through window regestry so i just go for it. Then they also said i need to raise the power limits by uncheck the "Turbo Short Power Max" so i do that too.

I followed ur advice and try to change the TDP Power limit to 0,1,2 and the Cinebench score increase to more than 2600, but somehow 0 has lower score than 1 and 2. The max wattage increase to 70,9W but the still eventually down to 45W. Is it okay to have that high wattage, will it fry my cpu?

Yeah about the power plan i forgot to say that i change the Max processor state to 98% but i still use that plan to test and it is now better.

Idk what to look HWiNFO so i just post it here.


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## pak209 (Jul 8, 2020)

AOne said:


> I've tried with MX4, Arctic 5 and others, but the one that fixes my issue was Noctua HT-H2. It has almost twice the upper thermal max work temp than HT-H1. With all the previously mentioned, it was all good the first 4-5 days and then after 10 days up to two weeks all went wrong again with thermal throttling. I know I sound like commercial agent, but this is from my own experience. Apply very thin, evenly spread layer of paste and follow strictly the tightening order. If it doesn't happen from the first try, don't hesitate to make a new attempt.


Thanks for your advice. Right now i still have a bit of the old thermal grizzly left so I will try repaste to see if it can come back as good as before. But i'll keep in mine to buy Noctua HT-H2 next time to see the improvement.

How long have u been using the Noctua HT-H2 and how often do u think that the lap should be repaste?


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## unclewebb (Jul 8, 2020)

@pak209 - What happened to your other post and pictures? It was here a minute ago but now it is gone.

Edit - They are back!

Setting the maximum processor state to 99% will disable Intel Turbo Boost. Best to avoid internet advice like that. Hopefully your CPU is running at 45W again. This is the default value for this CPU. You are not going to hurt anything by running your CPU at its default values.

Edit - It is not Windows that is screwing you over. You are screwing yourself over! Setting the TDP Level to 1 drops your CPU down to 35W mode. Do not do this if you want maximum performance. Set it to 0 and increase your long turbo power limit above 45W if you are interested in maximum performance.


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## pak209 (Jul 8, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> @pak209 - What happened to your other post and pictures? It was here a minute ago but now it is gone.
> 
> Edit - They are back!
> 
> Setting the maximum processor state to 99% will disable Intel Turbo Boost. Best to avoid internet advice like that. Hopefully your CPU is running at 45W again. This is the default value for this CPU. You are not going to hurt anything by running your CPU at its default values.


So u mean i should setting it back to 100 or leave it like that. Yeah my cpu is now running at 45W, i'm really thankful for your help.

Do you have any recommendations so that the cpu speed always run near the max speed 3,9ghz? Sometimes it went down to under 3,0 while gaming so it's a bit annoying when i see some big fps drops (i'm using 240hz monitor so it can be a bit slutter when it went under 240fps), eventhough my temps are ok about 60-75 and never above 80.


Edit - Oh I thought that 1 was better since the score in cinebench was slightly better than 0, maybe that was inly temporary. I'll change it now back to 0. Thank you for ur help!!


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## unclewebb (Jul 8, 2020)

Set the Maximum processor state back to 100. Do not use ThrottleStop to make random changes.

For many games, 45W might be enough. When fully loaded running Cinebench, try setting both power limits to 60W. Watch for throttling when loaded. Some laptops are unlocked so you can run at well over 45W indefinitely as long as your cooling is good.


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## Thrasher (Jul 28, 2020)

Hello I need advice, I managed to reach this score but not without reaching the thermal and since some got more than 3000pts in cinebench and I can not get to 4.1ghz also.


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## pak209 (Jul 28, 2020)

Thrasher said:


> Hello I need advice, I managed to reach this score but not without reaching the thermal and since some got more than 3000pts in cinebench and I can not get to 4.1ghz also.
> View attachment 163733


I can reach 2700 but definitely thermal. You can try to increase the Turbo long power max to 70. I read a post that both Turbo long and short power max are 70, and the score is more than 3000.

You can only get to 4,1ghz on single core, with multi core you can only get to 3,9ghz max. I just know that for gaming, more core is better than single core.

Oh btw, i notice that you perhaps haven't turn on ts yet. Maybe that's the problem??


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## Thrasher (Jul 28, 2020)

what do you mean turning on ts? sorry i'm new to this.


pak209 said:


> I can reach 2700 but definitely thermal. You can try to increase the Turbo long power max to 70. I read a post that both Turbo long and short power max are 70, and the score is more than 3000.
> 
> You can only get to 4,1ghz on single core, with multi core you can only get to 3,9ghz max. I just know that for gaming, more core is better than single core.
> 
> Oh btw, i notice that you perhaps haven't turn on ts yet. Maybe that's the problem??



I managed not to reach those temps just by lifting the notebook a little


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## pak209 (Jul 28, 2020)

Thrasher said:


> what do you mean turning on ts? sorry i'm new to this.
> 
> 
> I managed not to reach those temps just by lifting the notebook a little
> View attachment 163747


I mean turn on Throttlestop. There is a button next to "Options". I guess it should be "Turn off" instead of "Turn on". The color of throttlestop icon on the taskbar should be red, green means not active.


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## Thrasher (Jul 28, 2020)

pak209 said:


> I mean turn on Throttlestop. There is a button next to "Options". I guess it should be "Turn off" instead of "Turn on". The color of throttlestop icon on the taskbar should be red, green means not active.


haha, I've been using it for a while and never knew it, thank you very much for something else you notice?


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## pak209 (Jul 28, 2020)

Thrasher said:


> haha, I've been using it for a while and never knew it, thank you very much for something else you notice?


I'm pretty new too so from my point of view, your setting is pretty good enough. Maybe in the FIVR you can set the CPU core to -250mV and that's all i can notice until now. 
Also it's better if you can post ur Throttlestop logs file here so people can have a closer look at how ur cpu was performing.


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## unclewebb (Jul 29, 2020)

The Turn On button only controls clock modulation and Set Muliplier, neither of which are being used. 

For the 8750H, the max multiplier is 39 39 for 5 or 6 cores active. People that are hitting over 3000 in Cinebench R20 are able to maintain the full 39 multiplier for the entire benchmark. To do this, you need unlocked power limits and adequate cooling so your CPU does not overheat and thermal throttle. That is what is holding you back.

In the Options window, can you adjust the PROCHOT Offset value? Intel default is 0. Some laptops will thermal shutdown at 100C if you set this to 0. Intel default thermal shutdown is 125C, not 100C. Some OEMs are not great at reading Intel's documentation. Allowing the CPU to max out at 100C might be good for a few more Cinebench points.


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## king of swag187 (Jul 29, 2020)

AOne said:


> It's the paste you're using. Old generation of pastes have lower max temp and quickly degrade over short period of time (personal experience). Try better paste with higher temp range.


lol you didn't even read the post


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## AOne (Jul 29, 2020)

king of swag187 said:


> lol you didn't even read the post


What are you talking about?!?


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## unclewebb (Jul 29, 2020)

AOne said:


> What are you talking about?!?


I was wondering about that too. I had to scroll back 3 weeks to see your post. It seems like you gave some useful advice. Maybe the king of swag did not read your post.


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## Thrasher (Jul 30, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> The Turn On button only controls clock modulation and Set Muliplier, neither of which are being used.
> 
> For the 8750H, the max multiplier is 39 39 for 5 or 6 cores active. People that are hitting over 3000 in Cinebench R20 are able to maintain the full 39 multiplier for the entire benchmark. To do this, you need unlocked power limits and adequate cooling so your CPU does not overheat and thermal throttle. That is what is holding you back.
> 
> In the Options window, can you adjust the PROCHOT Offset value? Intel default is 0. Some laptops will thermal shutdown at 100C if you set this to 0. Intel default thermal shutdown is 125C, not 100C. Some OEMs are not great at reading Intel's documentation. Allowing the CPU to max out at 100C might be good for a few more Cinebench points.


hi thanks, i couldn't do it is here?


psd : reach 2800pts with -250v on fivr, is it dangerous?


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## unclewebb (Jul 30, 2020)

The little gold colored icon to the right of the Lock PROCHOT Offset feature means that this register has been locked and cannot be adjusted. It is usually the BIOS that decides to lock this.



Thrasher said:


> reach 2800pts with -250v on fivr, is it dangerous?


Your CPU is either stable or it is not stable. If lowering the voltage increases your Cinebench scores, that sounds like a good thing to me. If your CPU is not stable, it will crash and you can try using a different voltage. If you set the core offset voltage request ridiculously high, the excess part of the request will be ignored by the CPU. Remember. The voltage sliders in ThrottleStop are only sending requests to the CPU. If the CPU does not understand the request, it will ignore what it does not understand. If you set the core offset to -500 mV, the majority of that will be ignored. Setting the core offset to a maximum of about 2X your cache seems to improve temps or performance. Anything beyond that is usually ignored.


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## SmoothOperator (Oct 17, 2020)

Is 2795 score on R20 with an MSI GP73 from 2018 (I think?) good? I actually found this app while researching why my core temps were constantly bouncing between 62 and 95 under High GPU load. That was fixed quick with unchecking bd prochot and dropping core/cache -125mv. Temps were super stable after that never getting above 85 with 4400 turbo. Still was only getting 2636 on R20 at that point. Made some random changes in tpl and dropped another -125 on the core and I hit 2795. I have no idea what I’m doing but it seems to work. Any room left for improvement or should I quit while I’m ahead?

Also on a side question not related to the 8750H. I have this laptop hooked up to a CX OLED but apparently g sync is not available through the hdmi port. It’s only available on the display port which is taken by the laptop screen. Is there any way to get around this?


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## unclewebb (Oct 17, 2020)

Post some screenshots of how you have ThrottleStop setup. When running Cinebench R20, keep an eye on ThrottleStop. Can you maintain the 39.00 multiplier or are you seeing throttling during this test? Open up Limit Reasons. Is it PL1 or PL2 power limit throttling or maybe thermal throttling? There might still be another couple of hundred Cinebench points to be uncovered.

A well cooled 8750H with unlocked power limits can go over 3000 in Cinebench R20.








						kill4l`s Cinebench - R20 score: 3147 cb with a Core i7 8750H
					

The Core i7 8750H @ 3891MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R20 benchmark. kill4lranks #385 worldwide and #2 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




					hwbot.org


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## SmoothOperator (Oct 17, 2020)

Where would I find the multiplier?


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## unclewebb (Oct 17, 2020)

In the FIVR window, check the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box. In the TPL window set the Turbo Boost Long Power Max to 70. Run Cinebench R20 and watch the Limit Reasons window. Does PL1 power limit throttling light up in red? What does ThrottleStop report for power consumption when this happens?

Some laptops allow you to go beyond the 45W TDP rating. These are the laptops that are scoring over 3000 points in Cinebench. If your laptop enforces a 45W limit, then you are probably very close to your peak. It is impossible to get full performance out of the 8750H with poor cooling or if it has locked power limits.



SmoothOperator said:


> Where would I find the multiplier?


The FID column in the monitoring table on the main screen. 39.00 is the max when an 8750H has 6 cores active.

There is usually no reason to check TDP Level Control.

I would check the Turbo Boost Short Power Max box just to make sure that this info goes to the CPU. I know some guides recommend leaving this unchecked but there is no reason to do that.


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## SmoothOperator (Oct 17, 2020)

Just ran a 2813, score and TS log attached.

Note, these do not include the recommended changes above, will make them now and run again.


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## unclewebb (Oct 17, 2020)

Your Cinebench score is heading in the right direction but it looks like your performance is going to be either power limited or thermal throttling limited. The heatsink and fan are struggling at the 60W level. Your CPU can only run at the full 39.00 multiplier for a few seconds before it starts to thermal throttle. Might have to do some surgery. A thorough cleaning inside and start watching videos on replacing the thermal paste if you have not done that before on a laptop.


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## SmoothOperator (Oct 17, 2020)

Yep looks like its both. Updated log attached.


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## unclewebb (Oct 17, 2020)

If you set ThrottleStop to 70W and you are still being throttled to 45W then there is nothing you can do to get beyond that limit. 

If you can improve cooling, this might help your CPU run 200 MHz or 300 MHz faster for the first 30 seconds or so but ultimately, the 45W power limit is still going to kick in.

At least your laptop is running a little better compared to when you first started with ThrottleStop.


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## SmoothOperator (Oct 17, 2020)

Agreed, next step is to do a tear down of the cooling system, re-paste and clean out the airstreams. 

I saw a few posts at the beginning about thermal pastes, Thermal Grizzly seems like overkill. What would you generally recommend?

I also have the laptop elevated 1" above the surface with washers, what type of performance increase would you see from the fan assisted cooling pads on the market? Something like this

And most importantly, I would like to convert my displayport connection for the laptop screen to an external connection so I can get G-sync working for my LG OLED. I know this means the laptop screen will no longer function, but I think it would be a fun project to try and convert the existing wiring harness and make it compatible for external connections. I'm not concerned about bricking this laptop, still buying time before I drop 2,500 on a new desktop. My current desktop is skylake and I dont see a point in upgrading it to RTX 30 since the mobo would be so outdated and need replacement anyway. Which is why I'm gaming on this laptop. But yea no concerns about warrantee lol.


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## netsoe (Oct 31, 2020)

hi everyone.I have Razer blade 15 2018 i7-8750H. i noticed is that when the cpu is running all cores at 100% load, the pacakge tdp is only 25W despite the rated tdp at 45W.I had throttlestop 9.0 installed.Changing the package power limit also didn't help. I changed it to 70W but it only reaches a max of 25W TDP when running cinebench.Please help me out.P.S no Power &thermal throttle at all.


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## unclewebb (Oct 31, 2020)

netsoe said:


> the pacakge tdp is only 25W


Your screenshot shows max power consumption was 36W.

You have lowered your maximum CPU speed and voltage so that is going to reduce your maximum power consumption a little. Why not set your turbo ratios and Speed Shift Max value back to their default values? 41, 41, 40, 40, 39, 39 for the turbo ratios and 41 for Speed Shift Max. Are you running Cinebench R20? Are you running any Razer CPU control software. Some factory software has a silent mode. These typically use power limit throttling to lower maximum power consumption. 

Start by downloading ThrottleStop 9.2. Exit ThrottleStop and you can copy the new ThrottleStop.exe into your ThrottleStop folder so it uses your current settings. Turn on the Log File option before you start running Cinebench. When Cinebench R20 is finished running, exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize your log file. It will be located in your ThrottleStop / Logs folder with today's date in its name. Attach it to your next post so I can have a look. It will automatically include reasons for throttling in the log file.


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## netsoe (Oct 31, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> Your screenshot shows max power consumption was 36W.
> 
> You have lowered your maximum CPU speed and voltage so that is going to reduce your maximum power consumption a little. Why not set your turbo ratios and Speed Shift Max value back to their default values? 41, 41, 40, 40, 39, 39 for the turbo ratios and 41 for Speed Shift Max. Are you running Cinebench R20? Are you running any Razer CPU control software. Some factory software has a silent mode. These typically use power limit throttling to lower maximum power consumption.
> 
> Start by downloading ThrottleStop 9.2. Exit ThrottleStop and you can copy the new ThrottleStop.exe into your ThrottleStop folder so it uses your current settings. Turn on the Log File option before you start running Cinebench. When Cinebench R20 is finished running, exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize your log file. It will be located in your ThrottleStop / Logs folder with today's date in its name. Attach it to your next post so I can have a look. It will automatically include reasons for throttling in the log file.


Yes I running Cinebench R20.I used Razer Synapse app for gaming mode which is CPU or GPU boost. Otherwise power limit throttling occurs on balanced mode.Ok I set turbo ratios and Speed Shift Max value back to their default values.Here is result.


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## unclewebb (Oct 31, 2020)

Yes, you have power limit throttling at 25W. That might be part of a built in safety mechanism where your laptop forces a lower power limit after it has been thermal throttling for a while. Some Razer laptops can force power limits lower than what ThrottleStop allows you to set. Intel CPUs have multiple power limits. If the EC wants to set a low ball power limit, it wins.

Your biggest problem is thermal throttling. At the moment, your heatsink and fan are completely inadequate. When your 45W CPU is only at 30W, it is already overheating and thermal throttling. The thermal paste needs to be reapplied to see if this can improve your temperatures. Razer does not have a reputation for using robust heatsinks.

Your undervolt settings are way too conservative. Why are you using those settings? For a typical 8750H, I would start with the cache at -100 mV and the core at -150 mV. If you are stable there I would slowly bump the core towards -200 mV or a little beyond that. You need to do whatever you can to control your CPU temperatures. Your CPU will still overheat because of the crappy heatsink but it should not be quite as bad.


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## HenryCase (Nov 12, 2020)

I've caught the bug, so I might be biased, but absolutely do the re-paste as suggested above with a quality thermal paste (I personally like Kingpin KPx for a more long-term usage, but I've had success with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut as well, but that typically requires a re-paste more frequently) before you start tinkering with the suggested settings above, this might save you some valuable time when dialing in those perfect numbers


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## aa1996s (Mar 2, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> The 8750H has a 45W TDP rating but it also has a 35W Configurable TDP-low mode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





unclewebb said:


> The 8750H has a 45W TDP rating but it also has a 35W Configurable TDP-low mode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




press lock too ? i have the same i7 8750h and the same problem





unclewebb said:


> The 8750H has a 45W TDP rating but it also has a 35W Configurable TDP-low mode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


omg its right i feel a better performance, , my cpu have good performance , and now it is not on 0% cpu usage so much times more better than before , thnks   , what more can i do to full xperience on this good luck performance, i want to get de full possible , and thnnks you so mucho bro xclent work great



aa1996s said:


> press lock too ? i have the same i7 8750h and the same problem
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## aa1996s (Jun 11, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> The 8750H has a 45W TDP rating but it also has a 35W Configurable TDP-low mode.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I was looking for this value that he sent me to place through windows + r, so I put where you told me, but nothing appears where you told me it was going to be. yes I have processor power management, in the windows power control panel, it appears in change power plan setting.




View attachment 203398





This is power processor management . Thnks you , oh , my speed shift - EPP is on 84 , on throttlestop


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