# Learn how to shoot in FPS.



## TheMailMan78 (Apr 27, 2010)

Ever since I was a kid I have enjoyed the sport of shooting. When I was a young boy my father would take me hunting and teach me the ways of the land and the
thrill of the hunt. When I got older I took on my passion and started competing in the IDPA and kept hunting various game. Shooting and guns have a special place in my heart 
and has taught me a great deal about nature and the human experience. Games while not giving me the same rush of the hunt is still my second love. FPS style games especially.
Now when I first started playing FPS games back in the early 90's all the laws of shooting didn't apply. Sometimes it was confusing for me because I was so use to adhering to
the strict laws of shooting and games like Doom used dead accurate guns that never jammed and never missed if dead on sight.

Over the years this didn't change. Graphics advanced and games themselves became bigger productions than some movies but for all their advancements they still lacked even 1% of
ballistic realism. Basically its just stayed a "point and bang" style which isn't realistic at all. Recently games have been advancing more and more and the most recent advancement 
in game ballistics is Battlefield: Bad Company 2. Not only did it bring "drop and delay" to FPS ballistics but it also brought destructible environments. Before that all we had was the 
ability to shoot through walls like in Call of Duty which was nice but a far cry from realistic. Now from these new realisms come new problems. Some of these problems are also
real world issues. This is where I would like to add my experience to help those who are not familiar with this new world that games are venturing into. Semi accurate ballistics.

Some members on TPU shoot or have military training. I can just imagine what their faces look like reading this. All I have to say to them is keep reading. I have a method to my madness.
You see the world of firearms and ballistics is VERY complicated. No one person could ever know all there is to know in shooting. There is also no way I could cover everything in one 
little thread. However the very raw basics never change and that is what I want to teach you in this thread. Basic aiming and timing. Judging distance and compensation as they apply 
to games and the real world.

Before we continue I want to say I love the TPU community and this is just my way of trying to show my affection for it. This thread is to help people become better gamers. I would love 
to hear feedback, advice and any other bits of knowledge people can contribute. Now if you have political view on gun control that are pro or con please keep them to yourselves.
If you need to vent about it go to www.generalnonsense.net and cry your heart out as this thread is meant to help gamers. Nothing more.

Now lets get started!

When you shoot in video games or in real life your mind processes formulas. Yeah that’s right your mind calculates complex mathematical equations so that you may place an accurate 
shot. Scary isn't it? I bet you didn’t even know you were doing that! Well its true. However the formulas you process in real life and in games are vastly different. You see in the real 
world there are written and established formulas that never change like wind compensation and gravity. However in games they differ from game to game as the environment and 
ballistics do also. With that in mind I want to show you some new formulas that apply in Bad Company 2 and any other game with semi accurate ballistics. 

1. Distance = Time
2. Lag = Wind
3. Practice = Accuracy

Take note as this will be the corner stones to this tutorial.

In older games you never had to worry about "drop". That is where over distance and time the bullet drops from its originated point of aim. In most games bullets act more like lasers and stay 
on one path until they hit a target or an obstacle. As I already explained this is not true in real life. Not only does a bullet drop it also loses energy in the real world. Even something as large as
a cannon ball will hit you no harder then your baby sister after enough time and distance. This isn't true with FPS. In games bullets never lose energy or accuracy over distance. Sadly this did not 
change much with BC2 but what they did add is drop! Lets look at the first chart....







Do you see how tank "A" has more of a chance of hitting tank "B" at 50 yards rather than at 1000? This isn't because tank "B" is a smaller target at 1000 yards. Its because BC2 added drop to their
ballistics. So if tank "A" is to hit tank "B" its going to have to aim higher according to the distance and compensate for the drop. This is using the first part of the first formula I posted (Distance = Time) 
Make sense? Ill get to the time part soon. 

Lets say you have a nice and open shot on an enemy tank. He's just sitting their all smug taking out your buddies. Well its obvious you have to take him out but how do you aim at him due to his distance? 
You already know if you shoot at him directly your shot will fall short. So you need to aim above him right? Do you just point and shoot? Nope. You use what is called the reticule in optical scopes. 
Now some reticule are more advanced than others and most of the time shooters have their own preference. Like me for instance I am a big fan of the "German Tri-Post" or the "German Reticule" as its also
known. However in BC2 they use the "Mil-Dot" and "Modern Rangefinder" reticule so in this tutorial I will also.






Ok now back to that pesky enemy tank "B". We need to take a shot and take one fast. Lucky for us he's stationary and we are well hidden. All we need to do is drop one round and we will have one dead 
tank "B" on our hands. So how far is he? How far do we need to aim above him? Well this is where my third formula comes into play. Practice equals accuracy. You need to practice using the reticule to 
judge distance. For example if a tank is only about 50 yards away you need only to aim directly at him or maybe a tad higher to be safe. See graph below.






But if he's much farther than 50 yards and he's more like 250 yards distance we better raise the reticule more before we take the shot. 






Now if he's almost a 1000 yards away we are really going to have to lob that round at him! 






In real life a round this size would be at full energy 1000 yards in but for argument sake lets say it was only at 50%. So if one round at 50 yards is at 100% energy and that would kill a tank then its safe to say it
would take two rounds at 1000 yards. Its good practice to try and make clean close shots in the games today because as games advance so will their ballistics. Good practice today makes for a better gamer tomorrow. 
Don't get used to forever having "pure energy" bullets that never lose power. One day games may advance enough and you will have to get closer to the target for it to count. See what I'm getting at? Start now! 

Well tank "B" is now on the move. He's pushing to the right of us and closing our flank. Now what do we do? Before all we had to do is line up our reticule and judge his distance. Now he's on the move and that no longer
applies to the situation. Why? Because Distance = Time. Tank "B" is so far away by the time we shoot at him compensating for drop he will no longer be in sight. In other words it takes time for a bullet to travel its distance to 
target. Within that time the target is also moving and its moving out of the line of fire. Aim directly at a far target and you'll be sure to hit dust. That is of course if you don't learn to "lead". When you lead a target you 
shoot in front of it guessing its projected path and allowing the target to run into your bullet. Yeah that’s right I said guessing! This is what separates the men from the boys in the world of shooting. You need to make 
educated guesses on which way the target is heading. The better you are at leading the better of a shot you will become. 

Now the big question. How do I properly lead a target? Well this is where things can get complicated. In the real world you have to compensate for drop, energy and an annoying little thing called wind. A windy day
will make even the best snipers cry for their mommas. However in the gaming world wind doesn’t apply to ballistics. Lag does. In games Lag = Wind. The more lag the more you have to lead a target as it adds to the
time it takes for the bullet to reach its target as does distance. So the way I deal with this is in my mind lag is the same as wind. The more lag I have the windier the day is thus the more lead I apply. Now lets get back to our tank
battle.

Tank "B" is still moving to the right of us. We need to take aim. So we need to lead him. The closer he is the less we lead. The farther he is the more we lead. Lets say he's about 50 yards away. Your reticule may look
something like this if you properly lead. See chart below.






Now lets say he's about 250 yards away. You reticule might look something like this. See chart below.






Whoa now he's 750 yards away! Not only do we have to drop this round on him we have to lead by a huge amount. Your reticule should look something like this. See chart below.






Boom! Direct hit! We have finally taken out the darn enemy tank "B" and I hope you learned something new doing so. The world of shooting, wild game hunting has never really applied to gaming up until now. In the future
I hope they close the gap even farther by bringing more realism to the mechanics of shooting and games. Everything from jamming to a nasty ricochets have been covered but never all in one game. Its refreshing to me that DICE the
developers of BC2 took the time to bring something new to the table and I really hope in the future more games adopt its model. I also hope you enjoyed this tutorial. Good luck and good shooting!


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## MT Alex (Apr 27, 2010)

It was nice of you to take the time to create this informative post.  If you ever come up North we'll have to do some shooting.


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## Mussels (Apr 27, 2010)

you dont need to shoot that tank, he's about to drive off a cliff anyway


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## Phxprovost (Apr 27, 2010)

lol nice post   though i never understood how people cant figure this out


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 27, 2010)

Mussels said:


> you dont need to shoot that tank, he's about to drive off a cliff anyway



Would you feel better if I used a kangaroo instead?



Phxprovost said:


> lol nice post   though i never understood how people cant figure this



Remember not everyone on TPU has shot a gun.


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## Mussels (Apr 27, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Would you feel better if I used a kangaroo instead?



that would be unfair, a tank vs a roo


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 27, 2010)

Mussels said:


> that would be unfair, a tank vs a roo



Who cares about fair! It would be fun!


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## GSquadron (Apr 27, 2010)

It is a very interesting thread.


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## Phxprovost (Apr 27, 2010)

Mussels said:


> that would be unfair, a tank vs a roo



what if the tank is tagged and the roo has a gustav?


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## Mussels (Apr 27, 2010)

Phxprovost said:


> what if the tank is tagged and the roo has a gustav?



tanks screwed.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Apr 27, 2010)

Nice post...
I think people that have never used a real gun that wouldn't know such things will now learn to be a better shot in games...

Nice post....
I hope that very few people I play against see this..

LOL


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 27, 2010)

jmcslob said:


> Nice post...
> I think people that have never used a real gun that wouldn't know such things will now learn to be a better shot in games...
> 
> Nice post....
> ...



Well thats the idea man.


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## v12dock (Apr 27, 2010)

Sticky


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## Mussels (Apr 27, 2010)

v12dock said:


> Sticky



why not, done.


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## Lionheart (Apr 27, 2010)

Very interesting post you got here man, I can't believe I read the whole thing, I hate reading , but I enjoyed it

I bet it took you awhile to do all this?


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## Mussels (Apr 27, 2010)

at least we dont have to factor in wind, that can get shitty in urban environments with the wind blowing different directions in different areas...


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 27, 2010)

CHAOS_KILLA said:


> Very interesting post you got here man, I can't believe I read the whole thing, I hate reading , but I enjoyed it
> 
> I bet it took you awhile to do all this?



I tried to make it fun and informative. I'm glad you read it man. Any questions? Was anything unclear?



Mussels said:


> at least we dont have to factor in wind, that can get shitty in urban environments with the wind blowing different directions in different areas...


No we get lag spikes and aimbots.


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## Loosenut (Apr 27, 2010)

Congrats on the sticky and the very informative post MailMan. In BFBC2, I need all the help I can get  





Mussels said:


> at least we dont have to factor in wind, that can get shitty in urban environments with the wind blowing different directions in different areas...



The way games today are progressing with realism, I wouldn't doubt we're going to see something similar to wind deflection. Especially for long distances for snipers

Sorry for the double post


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## kid41212003 (Apr 27, 2010)

Estimate and approximate, that's what I did, since there's no distance indicate on the crosshairs.

Look at where the shots land and adjust accordingly.


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## Lionheart (Apr 27, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I tried to make it fun and informative. I'm glad you read it man. Any questions? Was anything unclear?
> 
> 
> No we get lag spikes and aimbots.



Nah man, everything was clear and well written, I remember reading and learning stuff like this when I tried to join the Army Reserves awhile back and we got to test out a simulation of live firing, but it wasn't actually live firing, it was real weapons connected to a massive computer simulator or something like that, the weapon was the F88 Austeyr, it felt so cool just to grip and hold, luved it, but even this doesn't have much to do with shooting in FPS, it just reminded me of it so much


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## qamulek (Apr 27, 2010)

I use similar aiming skills while playing soldier or demoman in TF2.  A lot of it comes down to knowing where the opposition is going to be rather then where they are at the moment, then trying to position yourself for the best advantage against them.  There is no point to charging in blindly just to die a painful respawn timer death.

Another not so obvious tip:
Aim then shoot; don't shoot then complain.


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## TIGR (Apr 27, 2010)

NovaLogic FPS games have had bullet drop and elevation-adjustable scopes since 1999 with Delta Force 2, and I think that included different arcs for different guns and calibers. IIRC DF2 ballistics are also affected by wind but may be mistaken on that one—no windage adjustments are available for scopes. I don't think projectile energy dropped with distance, however, and there is no shooting through walls.


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## FordGT90Concept (Apr 27, 2010)

You forgot wind speed, wind direction, and drift (if the barrel is rifled).  Some games figure in wind speed and direction (like Delta force Land Warrior and Task Force Dagger).  I have yet to see any games figure in drift (bullet rises up and to the left due to the rifling).

As for how it relates to gaming, it completely depends on the game.  Except for Delta Force, most games are arcade and not simulator for projectile physics for the sake of KIS.  Projectile physics rarely make games more fun than had it not been there--kind of like comparing something like SimCopter to Flight Simulator.  Arcade for the win! 


Mil-dot is the most common reticule on NATO snipe rifles.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Apr 27, 2010)

Don't forget Direct Compute will be a factor in future games so this post will serve more newer games


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## Solaris17 (Apr 27, 2010)

Phxprovost said:


> lol nice post   though i never understood how people cant figure this out



I agree



TheMailMan78 said:


> Remember not everyone on TPU has shot a gun.



very true not to mention with the few games im playing online it seems the people im playing against get younger and younger. = less and less experience.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 27, 2010)

Very nice and informative article.  As Mailman says..... practice makes perfect, you find after a while doing it for real, that mental formula and calculation literally takes a millisecond and you fire of and hit literally that quick, of course one of the major differences between a "game" hunter and a man hunter is that deer don't shoot back   One of the main reasons snipers use such high velocity weapons is because the "drop" is less over a set distance, I liked the article though, it gives a different perspective than I am used to, I have not consciously related my real life shooting to FPS and for that alone it's been useful!


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## entropy13 (Apr 27, 2010)

Doesn't Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood implement something similar during the Artillery portion of the second level in the first story? Or is it because the rafts were moving so you have to adjust the angle of the cannon and aim towards the anticipated position of the rafts? I'll check. LOL


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## Mussels (Apr 27, 2010)

entropy13 said:


> Doesn't Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood implement something similar during the Artillery portion of the second level in the first story? Or is it because the rafts were moving so you have to adjust the angle of the cannon and aim towards the anticipated position of the rafts? I'll check. LOL



that was just a delay with the rounds being so slow, and the downhill angle.


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## r9 (Apr 27, 2010)

I just hope that this tutorial don`t drop in to wrong hands, terrorists for example. .


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## Mussels (Apr 27, 2010)

r9 said:


> I just hope that this tutorial don`t drop in to wrong hands, terrorists for example. .



i just had an image of a kangaroo with a carl gustav chasing the popemobile shouting ALLAHU AKBAR


damn you people.


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## entropy13 (Apr 27, 2010)

The nearest real-time application of this for me was paintball lol. The area was quite big. Actually it's a forest, some sort of valley where the two teams starts at each high point on the sides. You could say I was able to "snipe" half of their team (I hit 6 out of 12 of them) while I was making my descent and then while ascending towards my left (which would be the west, the teams start in the north and south; basically it's more of a bowl as the east is also a slope). 

I used up too much paintballs though, apparently my adjustments were done in too small increments during the first two hits I did. Fortunately I'm not noticeable yet during the descent since there were 12 of us at the start. I've made better adjustments for the 4 hits after. Although hitting a tree helps in estimating where it would hit after making adjustments, it also gives away my position. But fortunately it's capture the flag and a teammate captured it already, with the opposing team left with 2 members "alive", although those two did notice me towards the end. I had to scramble away from my position lol.


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## HalfAHertz (Apr 27, 2010)

Um I always thought that the reason fps and driving games stray away from realism is because no one wants a society capable of mass destruction and murder and not just because of lazy game designers, heh


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## ComradeSader (Apr 27, 2010)

Phxprovost said:


> lol nice post   though i never understood how people cant figure this out





TheMailMan78 said:


> Remember not everyone on TPU has shot a gun.



I've used a rifle only once, on a stationary target.. yet I know all about this already, imo it's fairly simple and I dare say common knowledge for those with some interest in firearms - then again I suppose it's not if we require posts like this 

Anyway, nice post man, hopefully that'll give some people an idea on how to play FPSs and fire weapons properly  Let's hope not too many Americans see this


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## DrPepper (Apr 27, 2010)

Good post been waiting on it.


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## Benetanegia (Apr 27, 2010)

I agree that paintball is a good real-life scenario where you can test this. A real gun would be more realistic obviously, but is not as easy to find a moving target that you can shoot at. (I mean, JUST DON'T ).

Paintball guns are also orders of magnitude less precise than real guns and because of the nature of the projectile, all the effects covered by mailman are very exagerated which IMO will help understanding and training the notions faster.

I don't know why someone who likes MMO FPS wouldn't like painball anyway. If you never did it, just do it, it's much better.


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## DrPepper (Apr 27, 2010)

Benetanegia said:


> I don't know why someone who likes MMO FPS wouldn't like painball anyway. If you never did it, just do it, it's much better.



Rediculously more expensive than a game.


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## digibucc (Apr 27, 2010)

HalfAHertz said:


> Um I always thought that the reason fps and driving games stray away from realism is because no one wants a society capable of mass destruction and murder and not just because of lazy game designers, heh



well, you thought wrong   yes they don't go out of their way with explicit realism, but that's because ratings and sensibilities , not because they don't want to "teach"

and it was really a matter of the technology not being advanced enough, more so than lazy devs.  now it's lazy devs, but in the past it wasn't really possible to have that much math.

a society capable of mass destruction and murder? and video games are to be responsible for that?... hehe, funny joke guy +


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## mdsx1950 (Apr 27, 2010)

Thanks for the awesome info.


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## 3870x2 (Apr 27, 2010)

you know mailman, that guy in your avatar? the emblem on his beret? Ive got the same one on my beret.

5th Special Forces Group (Airborne) FTW


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## Benetanegia (Apr 27, 2010)

DrPepper said:


> Rediculously more expensive than a game.



I get your point, but it really isn't so expensive if you really like it and can find friends who like it too (there are many groups on the internet that would gladly accept you anyway). A decent paint gun will set you back $100-200, no more (and you can try with low end ones ~$50 first, although I promise that you will soon want a decent one ), and apart from that it all depends how much protection you want, how much paintballs you spend and how much CO2 costs on your region. Next, find a good place and have fun.

Going to those places where they've done everything for you and you just rent everything is expensive, but you can have as much fun on any woods and 20+ people working together can set up a good battlefield in few minutes.

Nothing can beat games in how much fun time you get for the price, but there are different grades of fun and IMO paintball is much more fun, because it's the real thing. As real as it can get without being killed, that is.


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## DrPepper (Apr 27, 2010)

Benetanegia said:


> I get your point, but it really isn't so expensive if you really like it and can find friends who like it too (there are many groups on the internet that would gladly accept you anyway). A decent paint gun will set you back $100-200, no more (and you can try with low end ones ~$50 first, although I promise that you will soon want a decent one ), and apart from that it all depends how much protection you want, how much paintballs you spend and how much CO2 costs on your region. Next, find a good place and have fun.
> 
> Going to those places where they've done everything for you and you just rent everything is expensive, but you can have as much fun on any woods and 20+ people working together can set up a good battlefield in few minutes.
> 
> Nothing can beat games in how much fun time you get for the price, but there are different grades of fun and IMO paintball is much more fun, because it's the real thing. As real as it can get without being killed, that is.



Yeah but my friends wouldn't get paintball equiptment and all that crap. I'd love to get things set up.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 27, 2010)

TIGR said:


> NovaLogic FPS games have had bullet drop and elevation-adjustable scopes since 1999 with Delta Force 2, and I think that included different arcs for different guns and calibers. IIRC DF2 ballistics are also affected by wind but may be mistaken on that one—no windage adjustments are available for scopes. I don't think projectile energy dropped with distance, however, and there is no shooting through walls.


 Thanks. I never played those. Ill have to give them a try. However you have to admit BC2 brings it to a new level with destructible environments.



FordGT90Concept said:


> You forgot wind speed, wind direction, and drift (if the barrel is rifled).  Some games figure in wind speed and direction (like Delta force Land Warrior and Task Force Dagger).  I have yet to see any games figure in drift (bullet rises up and to the left due to the rifling).
> 
> As for how it relates to gaming, it completely depends on the game.  Except for Delta Force, most games are arcade and not simulator for projectile physics for the sake of KIS.  Projectile physics rarely make games more fun than had it not been there--kind of like comparing something like SimCopter to Flight Simulator.  Arcade for the win!
> 
> ...


 Did you even read the thread at all Ford? I didn't "forget" anything. I could right a book on shooting variables but I kept this tutorial very simple and to the point as it relates to gaming.



Tatty_One said:


> Very nice and informative article.  As Mailman says..... practice makes perfect, you find after a while doing it for real, that mental formula and calculation literally takes a millisecond and you fire of and hit literally that quick, of course one of the major differences between a "game" hunter and a man hunter is that deer don't shoot back   One of the main reasons snipers use such high velocity weapons is because the "drop" is less over a set distance, I liked the article though, it gives a different perspective than I am used to, I have not consciously related my real life shooting to FPS and for that alone it's been useful!


 Well I've been shot at before. Of course I was stealing gas out of a tractor. Does that count?



3870x2 said:


> you know mailman, that guy in your avatar? the emblem on his beret? Ive got the same one on my beret.
> 
> 5th Special Forces Group (Airborne) FTW


 Thats Bill from L4D! Hes way cooler than you. He kills zombies. How many zombies have you killed hmmmmmm??


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## Ra97oR (Apr 27, 2010)

BC2 did brings out ballistics on some weapons but not all. And sometimes the bullet drop is just not right. 

If I am wanting to play something with good ballistics system, I would go for Red Orchestra.


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## DonInKansas (Apr 27, 2010)

Maybe the roo has map or aimhacks.  Hackeroo!


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## DrPepper (Apr 27, 2010)

Ra97oR said:


> BC2 did brings out ballistics on some weapons but not all. And sometimes the bullet drop is just not right.
> 
> If I am wanting to play something with good ballistics system, I would go for Red Orchestra.



What about Arma I and II.


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## Ra97oR (Apr 27, 2010)

DrPepper said:


> What about Arma I and II.



That too. 
Maybe also add Flashpoint to the list too.


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## mlee49 (Apr 27, 2010)

Great guide for shooting a tank round or maybe sniper round.  Please repost intense guides for handling shotguns, automatic weapons, hand guns, and explosives.

I expect this report on TPU's desk by Monday Mr. MailMan.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 27, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Well I've been shot at before. Of course I was stealing gas out of a tractor. Does that count?



Good enuff for me!


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 28, 2010)

mlee49 said:


> Great guide for shooting a tank round or maybe sniper round.  Please repost intense guides for handling shotguns, automatic weapons, hand guns, and explosives.
> 
> I expect this report on TPU's desk by Monday Mr. MailMan.



Honestly the guide I gave applied to everything you just requested. The only thing I didn't cover was using controlled bursts for automatic weapons.


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## Kreij (Apr 28, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Honestly the guide I gave applied to everything you just requested. *The only thing I didn't cover was using controlled bursts for automatic weapons*.



So get it up there ya slacker.


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## Benetanegia (Apr 28, 2010)

Now that you mention controled bursts, idk what this thread is all about. The most realistic game is Counter Strike Source and everybody knows that.


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## Kreij (Apr 28, 2010)

This thread is about helping people improve their abilities in FPS shooters, and no, not everyone knows how to do that.


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## Benetanegia (Apr 28, 2010)

Kreij said:


> This thread is about helping people improve their abilities in FPS shooters, and no, not everyone knows how to do that.



Uuups! I was kidding. Yeah it's late here.


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## mlee49 (Apr 28, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Honestly the guide I gave applied to everything you just requested. The only thing I didn't cover was using controlled bursts for automatic weapons.



I was mostly being a smartass, but there are some weapons that require shooting that dont really follow this guide to a T. Granted discussing ballistics is probably more accurate, it isn't simply applicable to a game called a 'shooter'.  

1. Distance = Time
2. Lag = Wind
3. Practice = Accuracy

These can be applied to any round/weapon fired.  Just depending on the gun it may have different variables. 

Take the Shotgun for example.  It's distance is low, lag is high(since it's shot is spread), and practice is fairly low(easy to shoot).

Compared to an AR15 where it's distance is mid-high, it's lag is low(higher powered bullet with other components), and practice is high.

I'm not trying to pick apart your argument, quite honestly I hate it when people tear up a single quote into 10 pieces and nit-pick.  I'm hoping to add value to your thread by addressing more obvious points rather than more finite points like heat from a barrel caused by automatic firing.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 28, 2010)

mlee49 said:


> I was mostly being a smartass, but there are some weapons that require shooting that dont really follow this guide to a T. Granted discussing ballistics is probably more accurate, it isn't simply applicable to a game called a 'shooter'.
> 
> 1. Distance = Time
> 2. Lag = Wind
> ...



The bottom line is they apply. How they apply is also up to the player. For instance I suck with the shotgun but I am an ace with the AR15. SO my practice is low with it. As for the many variables I didn't mention its really pointless to list them. Why? Because for every variable you list I can find one you missed. Its not about that. Its about the raw basics of shooting.

However the whole controled burst thing is a good argument. I may need to add a section for it. If I can get some more tips Ill do it.


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## GSquadron (Apr 28, 2010)

The shooting class will start now.
All students pls enter in!


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## Kreij (Apr 28, 2010)

I think that a comprehensive guide that covers as much as possible is a good thing.
Things that players would consider common sense or a "no brainer", may not always be obvious to someone who is brand new to FPS games. 
They can then fine tune and adapt their abilities the way it best fits their playing style.

I, for instance, always look for guides on how to look really good while dying horribly.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 28, 2010)

Kreij said:


> I think that a comprehensive guide that covers as much as possible is a good thing.
> Things that players would consider common sense or a "no brainer", may not always be obvious to someone who is brand new to FPS games.
> They can then fine tune and adapt their abilities the way it best fits their playing style.
> 
> I, for instance, always look for guides on how to look really good while dying horribly.



Where as I, being as cynical as I am, always look for guides titled "How to stop bleeding from a gunshot wound" before I start my shooting


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Apr 28, 2010)

I'm a tad surprised at the majority of comments here, and the post all together... even someone who has never fired a gun should know all of this. It's all basic physical interactions. Even if you only had one fact confirmed you should be able to infer the rest naturally. Anyone who has been exposed to modern sources of information and has moved through the physical world should have worked all this out.. unless they have some deficiency in their ability to processes available information. I'm not saying everyone must have at some point thought it all out in words, but if you pick a tool that you have some basic knowledge of like a gun, proper operation of it should come naturally through the processing of "ambient" information.


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## ComradeSader (Apr 28, 2010)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> I'm a tad surprised at the majority of comments here, and the post all together... even someone who has never fired a gun should know all of this. It's all basic physical interactions. Even if you only had one fact confirmed you should be able to infer the rest naturally. Anyone who has been exposed to modern sources of information and has moved through the physical world should have worked all this out.. unless they have some deficiency in their ability to processes available information. I'm not saying everyone must have at some point thought it all out in words, but if you pick a tool that you have some basic knowledge of like a gun, proper operation of it should come naturally through the processing of "ambient" information.



QFT


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## Mussels (Apr 28, 2010)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> I'm a tad surprised at the majority of comments here, and the post all together... even someone who has never fired a gun should know all of this. It's all basic physical interactions. Even if you only had one fact confirmed you should be able to infer the rest naturally. Anyone who has been exposed to modern sources of information and has moved through the physical world should have worked all this out.. unless they have some deficiency in their ability to processes available information. I'm not saying everyone must have at some point thought it all out in words, but if you pick a tool that you have some basic knowledge of like a gun, proper operation of it should come naturally through the processing of "ambient" information.



you may think this is all obvious, but in half the threads here on TPU i go in there thinking "how the hell do they not know this? isnt it obvious? isnt it logical?"

the thread wouldnt have been made if the OP didnt think people needed to know it.


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## douglatins (Apr 28, 2010)

Though not all games have bullet velocity, physics and trajectory. Thanks a lot for the post will read later


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## John Phoenix (May 1, 2010)

I have never had a problem shooting in an FPS game being a FPS gamer since Wolfenstein 3D came out in 92.

I meet tons of people that do have problems with the movement in FPS games making them dizzy or screwing up their eyes.. so they don't play fps games. To me that's a real shame because the FPS experience is way better than others IMO. It's like being there in real life.. what could be more real than that? The action happening to a character I control in front of me like in 3rd person games just doesn't do it for me.

Perhaps someone should make a thread on how to overcome peoples fear and physical reactions in an FPS game.


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## TechnicalFreak (May 3, 2010)

Benetanegia said:


> Now that you mention controled bursts, idk what this thread is all about. The most realistic game is Counter Strike Source and everybody knows that.



I thought it was the Rainbow Six series that was the most realistic FPS simulation?? 

EDIT: @John Phoenix, you know some people just don't have a good eye-hand coordination. Some people train to make it better, and some people just ain't good enough. Like a friend of mine, his son can only use his right arm and hand but you should see him play CS..


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (May 25, 2010)

Ok... now just to know in game how many yards / feet / meters away the target is to utilize this. Otherwise, its same old "scorched earth" way for me.


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## lyndonguitar (May 30, 2010)

Arma 2 is realistic although it is very Buggy and unpolished.


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## TheMailMan78 (May 30, 2010)

There is a game coming out called "Sniper: Ghost Warrior" that looks very interesting. I may be updating this guide soon.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/34830/


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## xBruce88x (May 30, 2010)

yea i've had the habit of aiming ahead a bit when firing at moving objects like tanks or aircraft... or aiming up a bit for long distances. but this never worked so well with "human" targets since the ballistics were usually "point and bang" no real ballistics or basic. it kinda makes it hard sometimes, since so many game engines have different ballistics accuracy. I'll often get used to how one game is and improve quite a bit, then i play another and I'm back to square one... although i've always been pretty good in tank battles (war rock beta days) since most never aimed ahead while i was moving.




Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:


> Ok... now just to know in game how many yards / feet / meters away the target is to utilize this. Otherwise, its same old "scorched earth" way for me.



some sniper rifles in games tell you the distance in meters.


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## scaminatrix (Jun 1, 2010)

Thanks for the guide Mailman, very useful.
All of it I've heard/figured out before (I've shot real-life and game), but it's the way you worded everything that's new to me.
Another way of understanding/POV is always good


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## Kaiser Kraus (Jun 1, 2010)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> The shooting class will start now.
> All students pls enter in!



I want to participate......One question though. Are we being graded for our answers?....

Seriously, I've been playing FPS games for a long time now. One thing that really makes a difference for me is that twitch factor. Instinct plays a big role also. Being shot at close range definitely heightens this reflex.......mouse sensitivity is also crucial.


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## anonemus (Jun 1, 2010)

COD:MW where Soap was being coached by Lt. Pierce to snipe was a good lesson in shooting


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## epicfail (Jun 1, 2010)

anonemus said:


> COD:MW where Soap was being coached by Lt. Pierce to snipe was a good lesson in shooting



tobad, mw doesnt have bullet drop, wind or any of the sort ;-)


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

epicfail said:


> tobad, mw doesnt have bullet drop, wind or any of the sort ;-)



but it does have a scripted event where you can hide in the grass!


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## anonemus (Jun 1, 2010)

epicfail said:


> tobad, mw doesnt have bullet drop, wind or any of the sort ;-)



Actually, those are exactly the lessons in that sniping scene wherein Soap had to shoot that Russian boss from atop of a building about a kilometer away(?)


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

anonemus said:


> Actually, those are exactly the lessons in that sniping scene!



yeah but they arent involved in the game at all. you aim straight for the guy.


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## anonemus (Jun 1, 2010)

I'm not sure I'm describing the exact scene here. Soap (COD:MW not MW2) had a Barret .50 CAL sniping rifle, and he was tasked to shoot this Russian crime boss who just alighted from his vehicle


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## epicfail (Jun 1, 2010)

anonemus said:


> Actually, those are exactly the lessons in that sniping scene wherein Soap had to shoot that Russian boss from atop of a building about a kilometer away(?)



try and snipe in battlefield 2 or bad company 2 like you do in cod series and youll see what i mean.



anonemus said:


> I'm not sure I'm describing the exact scene here. Soap (COD:MW not MW2) had a Barret .50 CAL sniping rifle, and he was tasked to shoot this Russian crime boss who just alighted from his vehicle



i know exactly which scene your talking about. 

wait for flag to stop flapping around it says and shoot.

even if you hit the guy while the flag is blowing. it still says you failed, and you dont have to aim to the side. as mussels posted its a scripted event. you dont haveto counteract wind effect.


Mussels said:


> yeah but they arent involved in the game at all. you aim straight for the guy.



exactly,


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

anonemus said:


> I'm not sure I'm describing the exact scene here. Soap (COD:MW not MW2) had a Barret .50 CAL sniping rifle, and he was tasked to shoot this Russian crime boss who just alighted from his vehicle



yeah, and that whole thing is scripted. wind never makes your shot go off course, you dont have to aim up to oppose gravity... and you always hit the guy in the exact same spot every time.


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## anonemus (Jun 1, 2010)

I know BF2 has more "realistic" shooting dynamics than COD:MW. My point is over the progression of several FPS games over the years, COD:MW's sniping scene is among the early games I've experienced that attempted to impart lessons in sniping. I'm sure since the game was released, there are more realistic FPS games introduced...


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

anonemus said:


> I know BF2 has more "realistic" shooting dynamics than COD:MW. My point is over the progression of several FPS games over the years, COD:MW's sniping scene is among the early games I've experienced that attempted to impart lessons in sniping. I'm sure since the game was released, there are more realistic FPS games introduced...



far older games like delta force 2 had bullet drop.

MW1 was a quite enjoyable game, dont get me wrong - but the CoD series are action FPS, and have never aimed for realism.


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## DrPepper (Jun 1, 2010)

Actually I'm aware that the wind does have an effect on the shot in that scene and just aiming at him doesn't work.


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## anonemus (Jun 1, 2010)

Mussels said:


> far older games like delta force 2 had bullet drop.
> 
> MW1 was a quite enjoyable game, dont get me wrong - but the CoD series are action FPS, and have never aimed for realism.



I agree. Its like in driving games where some aspire for realism and others for more arcade-type. What I realized about BF2 is it can be done simultaneously


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

DrPepper said:


> Actually I'm aware that the wind does have an effect on the shot in that scene and just aiming at him doesn't work.



but its SCRIPTED. its not wind inasmuch as the game just makes you miss until the time you're supposed to fire.


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## DrPepper (Jun 1, 2010)

Mussels said:


> but its SCRIPTED. its not wind inasmuch as the game just makes you miss until the time you're supposed to fire.



I'm sure you can shoot before and curve the bullet into him.


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

DrPepper said:


> I'm sure you can shoot before and curve the bullet into him.



possible... by aiming at the same spot at that specific second.

if it offsets to the left and low 3 seconds in, you know where to aim 3 seconds in every single time.

scripted offset =/= wind.


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## anonemus (Jun 1, 2010)

even if its scripted, it makes the player be aware of matters like wind direction, etc.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 10, 2010)

I found this video to show some of the basics I was talking about. It even uses the "red dot" to help you with the shot!

http://www.shackvideo.com/sniper-ghost-warrior-basic-tactics-guide-trailer-19242


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jun 10, 2010)

Bullets actually go up, coming out of the barrel, and then begin to drop.

Just thought I'd throw that bit of info out there


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 10, 2010)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/image1697.jpg
> 
> Bullets actually go up, coming out of the barrel, and then begin to drop.
> 
> Just thought I'd throw that bit of info out there



That depends on the load, rifling and about a million other factors


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jun 10, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> That depends on the load, rifling and about a million other factors



I haven't seen a rifle that doesn't.

My M4 arc's a good bit.


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## DrPepper (Jun 10, 2010)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> I haven't seen a rifle that doesn't.
> 
> My M4 arc's a good bit.



The only reason I can imagine the bullet actually moving upwards is because of the coriolis effect.


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## Fourstaff (Jun 10, 2010)

DrPepper said:


> The only reason I can imagine the bullet actually moving upwards is because of the coriolis effect.



Any good physicist will tell you that coriolis effect is too small on things like bullets. Its only important on things which spans kilometres across, eg hurricanes and stuff like that.


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## DrPepper (Jun 10, 2010)

Fourstaff said:


> Any good physicist will tell you that coriolis effect is too small on things like bullets. Its only important on things which spans kilometres across, eg hurricanes and stuff like that.



Actually it does effect bullets. It causes them to drift upwards and to the right. The effect is minor but it can affect if a bullet lands on its mark.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 10, 2010)

DrPepper said:


> Actually it does effect bullets. It causes them to drift upwards and to the right. The effect is minor but it can affect if a bullet lands on its mark.



That depends on the velocity and the rifling. What you described is called "crabbing" if Im not mistaken. Anyway for more info on bullet "rise" I would suggest you read these articles.

http://www.sports1234.com/outdoor-recreation/3394-3-outdoor-recreation.html

http://scienceblogs.com/dotphysics/2009/10/mythbusters-bringing-on-the-physics-bullet-drop.php

Shortest answer.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_a_rifle_bullet_rise_after_it_leaves_the_barrel_of_the_gun



Dippyskoodlez said:


> I haven't seen a rifle that doesn't.
> 
> My M4 arc's a good bit.



Adjust your sites man.


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## Fourstaff (Jun 10, 2010)

Spot on, TMM. The way I think of the bullet going to the right is due to rifling, since the bullet is spun, it will drift towards one direction like a curveball.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 10, 2010)

Fourstaff said:


> Spot on, TMM. The way I think of the bullet going to the right is due to rifling, since the bullet is spun, it will drift towards one direction like a curveball.



It also depends on the shooter. When shooting pistols you have a weak wrist and a strong wrist. If you do not compensate for that with a proper grip you will become inaccurate. Even locking your elbow effects your accuracy when shooting a pistol.

Its funny because in 99% of most movies I see shooters are not holding the gun correctly. Only in Micheal Mann movies do I see proper gun handling. A good one is "Collateral" with Tom Cruse.


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## DrPepper (Jun 10, 2010)

Fourstaff said:


> Spot on, TMM. The way I think of the bullet going to the right is due to rifling, since the bullet is spun, it will drift towards one direction like a curveball.



I was told by a sniper that was the coriolis effect so you can see how I was mistaken.


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## brandonwh64 (Jun 10, 2010)

DrPepper said:


> I was told by a sniper that was the coriolis effect so you can see how I was mistaken.



This is true. coriolis effect is one of the major parts of the sniper course. i did the mcmillan sniper course when i was in the army and those guys were wicked with any type of rifle! they were hittin targets out of a black hawk with an M4 at like 600 Meters!


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## DrPepper (Jun 10, 2010)

brandonwh64 said:


> This is true. coriolis effect is one of the major parts of the sniper course. i did the mcmillan sniper course when i was in the army and those guys were wicked with any type of rifle! they were hittin targets out of a black hawk with an M4 at like 600 Meters!



That's mad shit. I thought the m4's max range was 600 though so wouldn't it be seriously dropping ?


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## brandonwh64 (Jun 10, 2010)

DrPepper said:


> That's mad shit. I thought the m4's max range was 600 though so wouldn't it be seriously dropping ?



We were hitting targets in the prone at 800 Meters and you have to aim about 2 feet above the silhouette


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 10, 2010)

brandonwh64 said:


> We were hitting targets in the prone at 800 Meters and you have to aim about 2 feet above the silhouette



874 yards? Open sights?


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## DrPepper (Jun 10, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> 874 yards? Open sights?



Unlikely. 4x ACOG Scope.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 10, 2010)

DrPepper said:


> Unlikely. 4x ACOG Scope.



Not necessarily. At the Bianchi Cup 1000 yard shots with open sights is pretty common. If brandonwh64 was hitting those I was going to give him a high five!

FYI I've shot with this guy in the past http://www.robleatham.com/ just to give you an idea my knowlage on this stuff. I mean I'm no expert but I do know a good deal


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## brandonwh64 (Jun 10, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> 874 yards? Open sights?





DrPepper said:


> Unlikely. 4x ACOG Scope.



No, no open sights, we used acogs and some m68s (aimpoints)


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## DrPepper (Jun 10, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Not necessarily. At the Bianchi Cup 1000 yard shots with open sights is pretty common. If brandonwh64 was hitting those I was going to give him a high five!



I said unlikely not impossible. Anyway flying past on a UH-60 hitting a target at 800m is madness in its own right.


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## twistedspark (Jul 5, 2010)

DrPepper said:


> The only reason I can imagine the bullet actually moving upwards is because of the coriolis effect.



It's not so much the coriolis effect as it is the gyroscopic force being applied.

The Coriolis effect causes drift related to the spin of the Earth, known as Coriolis drift. Coriolis drift can be up, down, left or right. Coriolis drift is not an aerodynamic effect. It is a result of flying from one point to another across the surface of a rotating sphere (Earth). For small arms, this effect is generally insignificant, but for ballistic projectiles with long flight times, such as extreme long-range rifle projectiles, artillery and intercontinental ballistic missiles, it is a significant factor in calculating the trajectory.

Even in completely calm air, with no sideways air movement at all, a spin-stabilized projectile will experience a spin-induced sideways component. For a right hand (clockwise) direction of rotation this component will always be to the right. For a left hand (counterclockwise) direction of rotation this component will always be to the left. This is because the projectile's longitudinal axis (its axis of rotation) and the direction of the velocity of the center of gravity (CG) deviate by a small angle, which is said to be the equilibrium yaw or the yaw of repose. For right-handed (clockwise) spin bullets, the bullet's axis of symmetry points to the right and a little bit upward with respect to the direction of the velocity vector as the projectile rotates through its ballistic arc on a long range trajectory. As an effect of this small inclination, there is a continuous air stream, which tends to deflect the bullet to the right. Thus the occurrence of the yaw of repose is the reason for bullet drift to the right (for right-handed spin) or to the left (for left-handed spin). This means that the bullet is "skidding" sideways at any given moment, and thus experiencing a sideways component.

The following variables affect the magnitude of gyroscopic drift:

    * Projectile or bullet length: longer projectiles experience more gyroscopic drift because they produce more lateral "lift" for a given yaw angle.
    * Spin rate: faster spin rates will produce more gyroscopic drift because the nose ends up pointing farther to the side.
    * Range, time of flight and trajectory height: gyroscopic drift increases with all of these variables.


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## anonemus (Jul 5, 2010)

Can anyone please start a "Learn how drive in racing games" thread as well?


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## Mussels (Jul 6, 2010)

anonemus said:


> Can anyone please start a "Learn how drive in racing games" thread as well?



aim at nearest car. fire weapons. repeat.


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## Benetanegia (Jul 6, 2010)

anonemus said:


> Can anyone please start a "Learn how drive in racing games" thread as well?



Start with the first GTR game, it had a very good tutorial iirc and you can enable an option that shows you the correct path (iirc?).

But in general, it is more complicated to explain. The only way to learn is to drive and take it easy: start braking more and way sooner than you should, instead of doing it late and always take curves correctly, even if you do at a speed less than optimal. I swear that doing this you will see an improvement every lap and you will make good times after just 50 laps. Also:

- Recommendation #1: choose a day in which you can make a long gaming session in order to make lots of laps and learn faster.
- #2: Choose one circuit and only one and play on that one until you feel you have mastered it. If you change cisrcuit every few laps, you will learn nothing. 

Remember this are recommendations on how to learn to drive fast, not how to enjoy the game. Follow these rules as long as the game is entertaining, you are not going anywhere if you are bored.


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## boise49ers (Jul 8, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Would you feel better if I used a kangaroo instead?



How about a BP exec instead ?


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## boise49ers (Jul 8, 2010)

anonemus said:


> Can anyone please start a "Learn how drive in racing games" thread as well?



If your Philippino no chance it won't help. Not the gaming part, the driving part. Sorry bad taste


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## anonemus (Jul 8, 2010)

boise49ers said:


> If your Philippino no chance it won't help. Not the gaming part, the driving part. Sorry bad taste



WHAT???? 

First, its Filipino, not Philippino. You don't want me to call you Amerikano now, wouldn't you?

Second, what exactly is your point?


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Jul 8, 2010)

anonemus said:


> WHAT????
> 
> First, its Filipino, not Philippino. You don't want me to call you Amerikano now, wouldn't you?
> 
> Second, what exactly is your point?


They drive bad..







hehehe just pulling your leg . Where is Philippines anyway?



Mussels said:


> but it does have a scripted event where you can hide in the grass!


Lol yeah.. in Crysis, this can be done anytime anywhere.


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## anonemus (Jul 8, 2010)

Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:


> They drive bad..
> 
> hehehe just pulling your leg . Where is Philippines anyway?



Have you been to our country?


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## John Phoenix (Jul 18, 2010)

This thread deals with learning how to shoot in an FPS game and people have noted that FPS games give them a form of motion sickness.

It is interesting to note that there is a little known term for this motion sickness. Not widely known because game developers don't want the negative connotation of a disease associated with their games.

For First Person View sickness the term is primorisaliosis. (pronounced pri-mor-is- al-i-o-sis) Taken from the Latin  words for first, person and osis meaning a morbid condition. 7 syllables.

There is a lesser known term for people with third person view sickness. (I personally suffer from this) called tertiusaliosis (pronounced ter-ti-us-al-i-o-sis) 7 syllables.


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## niko084 (Aug 30, 2010)

They don't do the super realism because gaming has not evolved that far yet.

Can you imagine what would happen if any half decent gamer today played pong with an average player when it was released? It would be a slaughter fest.

Gaming skills have literally evolved with us, also note why younger kids are playing, also leads to better skills as they get older.

But to this day, your average game buyer wants to play the single player game and they want to be able to play it. If it's too hard or complicated it drives sales down and customer satisfaction, jump into a game and play it for 5 minutes and can't barely hit a target, most people would quit, some would even call the game mechanics broken.

Games are simple because it's good for business, on top of that they save millions of development costs.


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## Steevo (Aug 30, 2010)

This is one thing I have always disliked about FPS. the lack of bullet effects like gravity, wind drift, velocity loss, movement, etc...


Hunting I have always known with a set sight to distance compensate, wind compensate, and compensate for target movement. However this has never really been the case with FPS, and sometimes has cost me in gaming. I guarantee a custom loaded .270 with a good dual shift scope will shoot accurately out to 600 yards, as I have done it while shooting prairie dogs. The owner however would not sell me his .270 damn him. We setup a friends new 30.06 with a dual shift scope from 100-800 yards to within 1.5" pattern with three shooters and three different types of bullets. Mark the vertical shift dial in increments of 100Yd.


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## erixx (Oct 5, 2010)

Thank you for the elaborate post!

But my problem is not ballistics in tank games, but in shooters where I have to fight against "mouse-kiddies" or "mouse-gods": people who seem to click and kill, like telepathy!!!!!! (apart from this not being realistic at all in 99% of the games, try Operation Flashpoint  Delta Force 1, 2, 3 was indeed a good training back in the Voxel days !

I am an old fart and born before computers existed, so i learned to use a mouse when I was over twenty years old. It is not like a part of my body.

So I wonder if there is a "mouse god" training, as 20 years of computer and mouse use has not made me one.

Maybe I just suck...


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## Mussels (Oct 5, 2010)

erixx said:


> Thank you for the elaborate post!
> 
> But my problem is not ballistics in tank games, but in shooters where I have to fight against "mouse-kiddies" or "mouse-gods": people who seem to click and kill, like telepathy!!!!!! (apart from this not being realistic at all in 99% of the games, try Operation Flashpoint  Delta Force 1, 2, 3 was indeed a good training back in the Voxel days !
> 
> ...





likely, you started too late. that or your mouse/mousepad/DPI settings are not how they should be, once you find the 'right' setup for yourself it does become 'part of your body' - no thought goes into it, its just instinct.


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## Mr McC (Oct 5, 2010)

erixx said:


> Thank you for the elaborate post!
> 
> But my problem is not ballistics in tank games, but in shooters where I have to fight against "mouse-kiddies" or "mouse-gods": people who seem to click and kill, like telepathy!!!!!! (apart from this not being realistic at all in 99% of the games, try Operation Flashpoint  Delta Force 1, 2, 3 was indeed a good training back in the Voxel days !
> 
> ...





Mussels said:


> likely, you started too late. that or your mouse/mousepad/DPI settings are not how they should be, once you find the 'right' setup for yourself it does become 'part of your body' - no thought goes into it, its just instinct.



There may be some truth in that, but I can sympathise with erixx, having joined the geriatric gamer group myself quite some time ago.

Cooperative games seem to be the way forward for senior (who said senile?) citizens: the younger members of our community put it many hours of gaming and map knowledge probably provides more of an edge than mouse mastery. In most competitive shooters, where realism reigns and one hit kills, I find myself spending more time respawning than playing.


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## JC316 (Oct 5, 2010)

erixx said:


> Thank you for the elaborate post!
> 
> But my problem is not ballistics in tank games, but in shooters where I have to fight against "mouse-kiddies" or "mouse-gods": people who seem to click and kill, like telepathy!!!!!! (apart from this not being realistic at all in 99% of the games, try Operation Flashpoint  Delta Force 1, 2, 3 was indeed a good training back in the Voxel days !
> 
> ...





Mussels said:


> likely, you started too late. that or your mouse/mousepad/DPI settings are not how they should be, once you find the 'right' setup for yourself it does become 'part of your body' - no thought goes into it, its just instinct.




There is hope for you. I started out playing Doom and Duke Nukem, back when using a mouse to shoot was just retarded. Z and X to strafe, Ctrl to shoot, arrow keys to aim and move forward and backward.

Then Quake came out...... Holy crap did it suck trying to use a mouse to aim with. Couldn't hit the broad side of a Shambler with a shotgun. A few months into that game though and I was unstoppable.

But yeah, if you want to learn how to properly shoot, pick up a copy of UT2K4 and find an Instagib match... Trust me, you will learn to shoot properly. Put in well over 100 hours in that game and most people accused me of botting.


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## Zen_ (Oct 5, 2010)

JC316 said:


> But yeah, if you want to learn how to properly shoot, pick up a copy of UT2K4 and *find an Instagib match*... Trust me, you will learn to shoot properly. Put in well over 100 hours in that game and most people accused me of botting.





The first clan I joined was Unreal Super Shock Rifles, a UT2k3/4 IG clan. UT IG, preferably zip IG (increased speed) is the way to learn twitch shooting. Hitting fast moving targets while flying through the air is hard. Vertical aiming (higher than ~45 degrees) is hard, a skill you'll rarely get to practice in tactical shooters but is good to have. You'll learn to backpedal and move fluidly in general instead of bumbling about. You'll get better at staying centered on a target in close quarters. A lot of people seem to forget that movement is just as important as aim. 

Transferring these skills to tactical shooters is easy, it's basically just learning the gun mechanics (recoil and spray), maps and any game type specific tactics.


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## f22a4bandit (Oct 5, 2010)

I like this post. Although some people say it's easy for someone to adjust to the game mechanics naturally, I think a whole lot of MW players had trouble with BFBC2 at the beginning. I know I had a hell of a time trying to adjust for bullet drop in the beginning.

I remember being so damn proud shooting a .22 at 100 yards and accounting for bullet drop. It made my day of shooting.


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## Hayder_Master (Oct 5, 2010)

nice thread, also good idea 

did i need to learn how to shoot


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## erixx (Oct 5, 2010)

Nice words and help from everyone. 

Just thinking, maybe the reason is that I have had a girlfriend living with me since ever and I have never had too much time 

Yet I remember the PsychoGib gun in Quake...  But I enjoyed the SP part but not the fast paced MP quake/unreal/HL games, so I denied myself that hard LSD-training most followed. 
Very early I went to tank, helo, flight and tact sims, where hopping like a bunny is an insta-death LOL. For example, now testing the MOH beta,.. unless the final game has bigger maps it is nothing but an evolved corridor shooter killfest again and again


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## Black Haru (Oct 5, 2010)

erixx said:


> Nice words and help from everyone.
> 
> Just thinking, maybe the reason is that I have had a girlfriend living with me since ever and I have never had too much time
> 
> ...



BFBC2. it's what you need.


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## erixx (Oct 5, 2010)

got it for full price, and it is ok, but hell not the ultimate game!!! six maps??? gimme a break  

but basicly ok, miles ahead of the MOH and COD and CS crap... 

THE ORIGINAL GHOST RECON ANYONE?


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## genta3d (Oct 22, 2010)

Any guide for FPS like counter strike ?
Im needing one because that type of game has random shoot...


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## MohawkAngel (Nov 18, 2010)

Listen guys do liek me in Battlefield 2 multiplayer. Heavy machine gun 800 bullets and spray the hell out of them. my accuracy is somehing like 7.51% but just spray and wait for someone to come in firing range


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## T3kl0rd (Jan 16, 2011)

Nice guide.  Hopefully I can figure out where to put the reticule for sniping finally.  So damn frustrating.  Aiming in a tank is actually easier for me.


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## manofthem (Feb 4, 2011)

I enjoyed this guide. When I started playing BC2, I got worked so hard because I couldn't kill anyone (thanks to all that CoD4). Now I'm getting the any of it, endemic guide will help even more. Sniping is tough though!  Thanks for the tips!


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## newconroer (Feb 4, 2011)

Mail, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this.

But I fail to see how this has any relevance in video game shooters where the vast majority take very little of these factors into account.

In most cases, you have to get a feeling for each game individually and end up finding the best 'methods' to increasing accuracy.
That should never happen. Guns are guns, bullets are bullets, and the wind is not discriminatory.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 4, 2011)

newconroer said:


> Mail, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this.
> 
> But I fail to see how this has any relevance in video game shooters where the vast majority take very little of these factors into account.
> 
> ...



You need to play BC2.


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## War_God (Mar 3, 2011)

Awesome post, Mailman. You really did put a considerable amount of time towards this post - kudos =)
It really is a shame that most games don't use accurate physics. I so did like it when I set the targeting reticule a hairbreadth above a guy's head in counter strike and it simply went against the wall behind him, even if he was almost on the other side of the map. I always found that to be so, so funny 

Recently, with my recruit into Portugal's Air Force, I managed to get a feel for real shooting (Never shot before in my life, not even a BB...). Man was it great. Having to compensate for each weapon's own little trick (there was this one which I had to put my aiming reticle in the top of the target, and a little to the right so it would drop on the 10 points area (Using old G3's, of course... Nothing better over here...)).
But I remember the frustration of hitting the outer area of the target... and then the feeling of rejoice of compensating and hitting the bullseye. Man that was glorious.

It'd be great to see some manner of improvement in games in this area. I know it detracts from the "general crowd" the companies are trying to sell their games to, but hey... I think an actual Shooting simulator, including variables like wind, might have an actual niche


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## MadClown (Mar 5, 2011)

wasn't this sticky'd at one point?


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 5, 2011)

Yeah it was. A mod didn't think it was relevant anymore.


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## de.das.dude (Mar 31, 2011)

aha! i have been freed from my n00b hood in FPS games!!


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## Funtoss (Mar 31, 2011)

the last pic is real right??


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 31, 2011)

Funtoss said:


> the last pic is real right??



Well yeah.


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Mar 31, 2011)

I applied your lessons in Crysis 2 multiplayer, do you have any tips on shooting invisible, lightning speed targets? Because Im kind of failing at it


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 31, 2011)

Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:


> I applied your lessons in Crysis 2 multiplayer, do you have any tips on shooting invisible, lightning speed targets? Because Im kind of failing at it



Absinthe.


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## yogurt_21 (Mar 31, 2011)

Bjorn_Of_Iceland said:


> I applied your lessons in Crysis 2 multiplayer, do you have any tips on shooting invisible, lightning speed targets? Because Im kind of failing at it



pretend you're playing golf, go for the lowest score. spawn, nade feet. respawn, nade feet. repawn, nade feet.


do it enough and you'll kill him at least once due to proximity. lol

unless of course he's using the armor/god mode hack too. then just focus on getting the best golf score ever. 

550 under par!


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