# Hydroxylapatite AND stannous fluoride toothpaste?



## RejZoR (Dec 31, 2014)

I know it's not directly a general science to be fit in here, but I was researching stuff to keep your teeth healthy and shiny and came across two technologies that are by far the most effective.

Stannous fluoride is far more effective than sodium fluoride or sodium monofluorophosphate, but has been replaced by both because they are simply a lot cheaper and they still sort of do their job. But the initial toothpastes used the superior stannous fluoride.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin(II)_fluoride

Second technology used lately is hydroxylapatite. This substance is actually a building element of every tooth. It has been used before, but the problem is, if the hydroxylapatite particles are too big, they don't adhere well enough to the tooth surface and they also cover the hydroxylapatite rods on the surface of the tooth, making it harder to further adhere building material. New technologies brought nano-hydroxylapatite which finally brings hydroxylapatite in small enough particles to behave the same way natural hydroxylapatite is introduced to the tooth enamel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxylapatite

Now, the thing here is, has anyone, anywhere seen a toothpaste that combines both, stannous fluoride (SnF2) and nano-hydroxylapatite (nHA) inside one package?

So far after searching, I've only found versions that include one or another or at least nAH with NaF or in case of Megasonex, only nAH without any kind of fluoride. I'm assuming that if you combine SnF2+nAH it would be a bit more expensive, but should be a superior combination. Or is there a reason why nAH doesn't need fluoride to bond even faster to the enamel?


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## R-T-B (Dec 31, 2014)

You got a dentist appointment tomorrow or something?

I kid, I kid...  and honestly have no clue.


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## Steevo (Dec 31, 2014)

Probably due to the bonding action that the fluoride would have with the calcium in the paste, rendering both unusable. 

Fluoride loves it some calcium, and once it bonds...... which is why we have it in water and other places, it strengthens the calcium bond by making it super tough for other things to form a molecular bond with the calcium in our teeth.


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## v12dock (Dec 31, 2014)

The only retail toothpaste I have seen use stannous fluoride is Crest Pro Health. I refuse to use Colgate there a bunch of triclosan lovers.


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## sttubs (Dec 31, 2014)

My dentist said that stannous fluoride tends to stain the teeth & it could become permanent.


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## v12dock (Dec 31, 2014)

http://www.pharmacytimes.com/publications/issue/2014/August2014/R648_August2014


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## erocker (Dec 31, 2014)

I don't put fluoride in my body.


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## natr0n (Dec 31, 2014)

Fluoride dumbs you down.


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 31, 2014)

natr0n said:


> Fluoride dumbs you down.


Floride no dumb down. YOU DUMB DOWN!


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## natr0n (Dec 31, 2014)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Floride no dumb down. YOU DUMB DOWN!


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 31, 2014)

natr0n said:


>


STOP! YOU MAKE MAILMAN MADS!

Seriously I don't know what the big deal about fluoride is. Its been in the drinking water in the states for probably 50 years and despite our stupidity in voting the average IQ has not gone down at all. We are as smart as we ever were in terms of pure intellect however.........common sense not so much. lol. On the plus side the average American can bite through a F#$KING RED WOOD TREE!


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## erocker (Dec 31, 2014)

It's as simple as looking up what fluoride does to your body.  SCIENCE!


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 31, 2014)

erocker said:


> It's as simple as looking up what fluoride does to your body.  SCIENCE!





> Children under age 8 and younger exposed to excessive amounts of fluoride have an increased chance of developing pits in the tooth enamel. Excessive consumption of fluoride over a lifetime may increase the likelihood of bone fractures, and may result in effects on bone leading to pain and tenderness, a condition called skeletal fluorosis. Severe skeletal fluorosis is a rare condition in the United States. The EPA exposure analysis suggests that the effects on bone in adults are of greatest concern for those living in areas with high natural background levels of fluoride and favoring beverages, such as tea, that are high in fluoride


.

http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/faqs/

THE HORROR!

And bad teeth and gums can lead to heart disease. Your point?


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## erocker (Dec 31, 2014)

Cool! I still don't use fluoride. No point.

I just cannot take your advice as a psychic medium or healer seriously anymore.  The fluoride is clearly blocking your 3rd through 8th chakra!


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## TheMailMan78 (Dec 31, 2014)

erocker said:


> Cool! I still don't use fluoride. No point.


I forgot your of British decent. Bad teeth and drinking tea are like a right of passage.


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## erocker (Dec 31, 2014)

I am thankful you understand.


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## Norton (Dec 31, 2014)

erocker said:


> I don't put fluoride in my body.



Are you sure?

Flouride is naturally occurring and/or added to most drinking water supplies:

http://water.epa.gov/drink/contaminants/basicinformation/fluoride.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation


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## erocker (Dec 31, 2014)

Norton said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Flouride is naturally occurring and/or added to most drinking water supplies:
> 
> ...


I don't drink municipal water and I've always had a reverse osmosis setup. I actively try not to drink it and have done this for 20 years. City water now smells like bleach to me. Things like EPA, FDA, CDC are things I do not trust. Why should I? Why should I drink fluoride? I have no issues with my teeth. I suppose if I put sugar, corn syrup and other garbage into my body on a consistent basis, I would consider a fluoride toothpaste.


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## RejZoR (Dec 31, 2014)

Erm, you do realize that you have to intake fluoride (of any form but is usually the sodium fluoride which is the most como one way or another, otherwise you'll be experiencing ostoporosis problems in the elderly period of your life... Even natural untreated water contains some fluoride. It helps your bones to remain flexible and tough.

Besides, you're making it way too big of a deal. Toothpaste usually contains up to 1500 ppm. That's 1500 per million units. And with toothpaste, you maybe ingest like 1/100th of that with saliva after you rinse your mouth with water.

Oh and the tap water is actually the cleanest in wast majority of cases, despite the regular beliefs of people. If it tastes funny it's either due to very old plumbing or i's not getting used enough and it becomes old within the pipes.

Any other info on why SnF2 would get in a conflict with nHA ? I've sent an email to a German ApaCare company that manufactures nHA toothpaste if they contain fluoride and what type, but I'll have to wait for the answer till sometime next year.

The Vademecum ProVitamin Repair says it uses "Liquid Enamel" technology which should essentially mean it contains hydroxyapatite and I know it contains sodium fluoride, but that's just my speculation since they don't specifically state hydroxiapatite as the ingredient.

It's also interesting that Sensodyne Repair & Protect contains stannous fluoride for US market but uses Sodium fluoride for EU market. Hm.


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## erocker (Dec 31, 2014)

RejZoR said:


> Erm, you do realize that you have to intake fluoride (of any form but is usually the sodium fluoride which is the most como one way or another, otherwise you'll be experiencing ostoporosis problems in the elderly period of your life... Even natural untreated water contains some fluoride. It helps your bones to remain flexible and tough.
> 
> Besides, you're making it way too big of a deal. Toothpaste usually contains up to 1500 ppm. That's 1500 per million units. And with toothpaste, you maybe ingest like 1/100th of that with saliva after you rinse your mouth with water.
> 
> ...


That's all fine and good. All I'm saying is that I make a conscious decision on what I put in my body whether its fluoride a cheeseburger or some crack cocaine. Genetically, my body is already a mess and I try not to add to the mess. I'm sure if I told you what I eat and what I don't eat, you'd think I'm completely nuts!


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## RejZoR (Dec 31, 2014)

Do you think that's air you're breathing now? Hehe


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## Solaris17 (Dec 31, 2014)

erocker said:


> That's all fine and good. All I'm saying is that I make a conscious decision on what I put in my body whether its fluoride a cheeseburger or some crack cocaine. Genetically, my body is already a mess and I try not to add to the mess. I'm sure if I told you what I eat and what I don't eat, you'd think I'm completely nuts!



I CANNOT believe you are making personal decisions about your body and using self control as a mechanism to chose what you do and do not eat.


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## RealNeil (Dec 31, 2014)

erocker said:


> City water now smells like bleach to me.



No kidding. When I travel, I take a bunch of my town's tap water with me to drink when I'm away. If I drink chlorinated water (like most municipal water has in it) I get stomach pains and I get the shits.
My little town in Virginia gets it's water from wells and it's been rated the best in the state several times. No additives here, and it tastes better than bottled water does.


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## natr0n (Dec 31, 2014)

I can only drink spring water anything else makes me sick.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Dec 31, 2014)

I grew up on spring water now i have no teeth.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TPU


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## Steevo (Jan 1, 2015)

ITT: Erocker comes out as possibly British with bad genetics, I blame centuries of inbreeding.
TMM comes out as being possibly spiritual, but his chakras are not aligned.
Conspiracy theory goes wild.
My primal urges to post German rock schieser videos almost overtakes my reason. 

I like to use hydrofluoric acid to make my meth. Fluoride can't be that bad.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jan 1, 2015)

Steevo i think you should take drugs seriously..
Like i do.


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## Liquid Cool (Jan 1, 2015)

I've only seen products like Gel-Kam that have 0.4% Stannous Flouride.  None with both.  Not sure what you're trying to accomplish, but if I was looking to strengthen my teeth...I would probably use a glycerin/flouride free toothpaste and OraWellness(HealThy Mouth).   Personally, I think it's best to do a little research and make your own toothpaste vs. buying anything on the market. 

http://wellnessmama.com/2500/remineralizing-toothpaste/

Although...if you're not in a position to make your own you could do a lot worse than Redmon Earth Paste.  

Best,

LC


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## RejZoR (Jan 1, 2015)

I very well know what I'm trying to accomplish.

nHA is a building material of teeth that gets applied to enamel and fluoride accelerates integration and converts the newly attached tooth building material into a stronger one. I never said I want to add multiple types of fluoride together.

However, I haven't found any info if fluoride is even needed with hydroxylapatite since this is already a building material in its native form unlike normal calcium ingested with food and later integrated into teeth through saliva in which case fluoride is known to create a far more stronger enamel than calcium alone. That's what I'm still researching and the reason why I'm asking here. I mean Sensodyne Repair & Protect and Vademecum ProVitamin Repair contain added tooth building material and they still contain fluoride. But the first one uses Novamin and the second is unknown what's even using, they just state they have "liquid enamel" in it.


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## twilyth (Jan 1, 2015)

@RejZoR - You can get prevident that has a higher percentage of fluoride.  I used to order it from Canada with no problems.  Now I get a script from my dentist since I couldn't get the Very Berry flavor via mail order.  You can also try using a fluoride rinse.  But thanks for the tip about nHA.


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## Vario (Jan 5, 2015)

Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?


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