# BattleField 3 - Must haves



## Nick89 (Jan 30, 2011)

Must haves for BattleField 3:

-Prone
-64 to 128 players
-HUGE Maps 
-Faction Specific weapons
-More weapons
-Six or more person squads
-Only able to spawn on Squad leader
-More variety of kits
-No more kits that do EVERYTHING(Medic+Machine gun=WTF)
-More Vehicles
-Commander Artillery(No more sniper Arty)


What else can you guys think of?


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## Jamborhgini313 (Jan 30, 2011)

And the overpowered J-10


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## MT Alex (Jan 30, 2011)

Definately on board with the "more kit variety."  I'd like something in between BC2 and BF2.  The grind for not that great of an upgrade in BF2 was just too much, and not enough kits to choose from.  Hell, I think I've played medic with the L85 for damn near 100 hours.

I think returning to the squad leader spawn would benefit teamwork.

And damnit,  *IT MUST HAVE VoIP THAT WORKS!!!  *If not, kiss random squad work goodbye, then you might as well play BC2.


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## Bow (Jan 30, 2011)

Huge open maps like the good ol days of Joint Operations


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## kid41212003 (Jan 30, 2011)

Imagine 32 proned snipers - in a very huge map.


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## Nick89 (Jan 30, 2011)

Jamborhgini313 said:


> And the overpowered J-10



I can't count the number of F35s I killed.


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## streetfighter 2 (Jan 30, 2011)

I agree with just about everything said except I have to add one more thing:
*ADD BACK DRIVABLE AIRCRAFT CARRIERS, SUBS, BATTLESHIPS!!!*
It's almost like we went backwards from BF:1942.


kid41212003 said:


> Imagine 32 proned snipers - in a very huge map.


Ia Drang Valley in BF:NAM.  It was not my favorite map but there were still reasonable flanking options.


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## Nick89 (Jan 30, 2011)

kid41212003 said:


> Imagine 32 proned snipers - in a very huge map.



This is not a thread about crying.


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## Black Haru (Jan 30, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> This is not a thread about crying.



nope, but prone is not something I miss or something I think I want back.

in older games it was necessary due to little foliage. now with how well camo works, it would only promote camping noobs.


I do agree with the bigger maps, more players, squad leader thing.


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## kid41212003 (Jan 30, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> This is not a thread about crying.



Wow sorry if that offended you... I actually cried..


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## Nick89 (Jan 30, 2011)

Black Haru said:


> nope, but prone is not something I miss or something I think I want back.
> 
> in older games it was necessary due to little foliage. now with how well camo works, it would only promote camping noobs.
> 
> ...



I always used prone for cover. And prone is essential for snipers. 

Snipers are a big part of battlefield, we have had to deal with them since the beginning(BF1942)

Prone should be in the game, to take it out because of snipers is a ridiculous Idea.


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## streetfighter 2 (Jan 30, 2011)

Currently I'm chatting with a friend of mine who knows a good bit more about modern weaponry than I do.  I was wondering if there was any sort of stationary AA weapons because although I loved the Tunguska and it's ilk in BF2, I really wanted more stuff that could take down jets.  He reminded me that early versions of BF:NAM actually had shoulder fired AA rocket launchers that worked reasonably well to take out jets.  Therefore I am strongly in support of adding *shoulder fired AA rockets* to BF3 for the purpose of mitigating ultra awesome pilot pwnage.



Black Haru said:


> nope, but prone is not something I miss or something I think I want back.
> 
> in older games it was necessary due to little foliage. now with how well camo works, it would only promote camping noobs.
> 
> ...


One of the things I loved about Battlefield 2/1942 was that there really wasn't much anyone could do that was cheap.  Lotta good a bunch of snipers are going to do when I light them up with my APC, tank, artillery, jeep, helicopter, etc..  Even one guy with a machine gun can pin down a sniper long enough for people to flank and kill him.  Battlefield 1942 had freaking battleships.  You could shell campers into oblivion.

Those were the good days-- The all or nothing days.

Also, though I don't have the patience for camping, I do believe it to be a legitimate tactic.  In BC2 when I'm defense on rush and my base is overrun, I'll sit patiently and watch the enemy move up then pop out and cap 'em.   I'm happy knowing that they would (and often do) do the same to me.


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## BumbleBee (Jan 30, 2011)

way too early. Battlefield 3 won't be launched until 2012 apparently.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jan 30, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> way too early. Battlefield 3 won't be launched until 2012 apparently.



I honestly just hope it wont be a console port. but rather a PC port so that we get the original badassness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## BumbleBee (Jan 30, 2011)

schedule.



> * Screen shots ~ Spring 2011
> * Trailer ~ Summer 2011
> * Beta ~ Fall - Winter 2011
> * Demo/release ~ Spring 2012


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## BondExtreme (Jan 30, 2011)

Woah.. 128 players? That would be insane


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## WhiteLotus (Jan 30, 2011)

Zombies.


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## =D (Jan 30, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> schedule.



i hate to break it to you, but your pretty much wrong.  They are announcing the game march 1st, and beta is coming out WITHIN 12 MONTHS of medal of honor.  Im guessing its coming out in time for christmas.


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## streetfighter 2 (Jan 30, 2011)

Instead of having stationary Iglas (and their American equivalents) in BF2, BF3 should have the M167 (and foreign equivalents) setup in similar positions.  I think that, in addition to allowing players to carry shoulder fired AA missiles, would mitigate skilled pilots from raping teams that didn't have skilled pilots.


=D said:


> i hate to break it to you, but your pretty much wrong.  They are announcing the game march 1st, and beta is coming out WITHIN 12 MONTHS of medal of honor.  Im guessing its coming out in time for christmas.


Well poop on a stick, I think you're right :
http://www.ea.com/1/beta

Though I wouldn't necessarily agree that it means that the game is coming out by December...


bbmarley said:


> would just like to add my comments
> . . .
> YES 128player on the most monster giant ridic over the top huge maps would be epic with LOTS of tanks jets choppas say like the size of a unlocked full rush map x10


I think what we really need is for nVIDIA to get involved in sponsoring BF3.  Though they may force something stupid involving CUDA into the game, the fact is is they put down some serious capital during a games development.  If BF3 has 128-player games, I can see nVIDIA hosting several 128-player lag-free servers.  That'd be worth a lot to them in terms of marketing dollars. 

nVIDIA did the same thing when BF2 was launched.  I miss their 64-player lag-free servers...


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## bbmarley (Jan 30, 2011)

would just like to add my comments


-Prone   - YES!!!
-64 to 128 players  - drooool
-HUGE Maps -
-Faction Specific weapons 
-More weapons
-Six or more person squads
-Only able to spawn on Squad leader
-More variety of kits
-No more kits that do EVERYTHING(Medic+Machine gun=WTF)
-More Vehicles
-Commander Artillery(No more sniper Arty)

YES 128player on the most monster giant ridic over the top huge maps would be epic with LOTS of tanks jets choppas say like the size of a unlocked full rush map x10

-No more kits that do EVERYTHING(Medic+Machine gun=WTF) <<<---- this i duno about you but when i play medic im hardly shoot my gun im just runing all over the field ,dropin medic packs and hiting everyone to the face with defib pads evin enemy and its funy as hell,
sure i might get 5 kills and 20 deaths some times but il still be top of the scoreboard with 5k points


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## _JP_ (Jan 30, 2011)

My list, of what I can think of, for now:
Improved radio commands (I liked the BF1942 system), less bugs on 1st version (more beta time, I don't care), hardware support for on-board audio (I mean c'mon, not everybody has to have a Creative SB and realtek chips are f'kin abundant!) but keeping EAX anyway...accurate representation of vehicles with selective armament (F-4 with only 1 napalm bomb drop, remember?:shadedshu), more planes, dog-fight maps, bombing maps, strategical tank maps, invasion/ohama-beach-like maps, SDK release after 2 expansion packs, restrict the stupid DRM to online games only (official and semi-official servers), which is the main target of the game, stick to serials and use encryption (for situations like: If I want to play offline (SP) or on a LAN with no WAN access), a graphics engine that is not ported out of a console, modular support for CPUs (for those that have dual-cores don't be so hindered), 64-bit support, complete graphics configuration (not only 3 levels of detail, resolution, AF+AA adjustments).

I'm done.  For now.
If they managed this, or at least took into consideration, I'd be happy.


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## LDNL (Jan 30, 2011)

Must haves for BattleField 3:

-Prone 
A must
-64 to 128 players
Depends on how large the map is.
-HUGE Maps 
With jets and helis
-Faction Specific weapons
Same gun different skin?
-More weapons
YES!
-Six or more person squads
Also yes to stop the squad hopping.
-Only able to spawn on Squad leader
:shadedshu
-More variety of kits
To mix and match
-No more kits that do EVERYTHING(Medic+Machine gun=WTF)
Removing medic would just solve that problem
-More Vehicles
Yes.
-Commander Artillery(No more sniper Arty)
Yes.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jan 30, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> I always used prone for cover. And prone is essential for snipers.
> 
> Snipers are a big part of battlefield, we have had to deal with them since the beginning(BF1942)
> 
> Prone should be in the game, to take it out because of snipers is a ridiculous Idea.



1942 and BF are much different than BC2, heres a quick comparison for you, check out the foilage in 1942...






basically non-existant, prone is needed.

And BC2





I agree with those 2, I don't want to see prone back, it promotes camping, and hiding rather than capping flags, and with todays tech, theres so much great cover than the only thing prones going to get used for is dolphin diving.

I would like to see some bigger maps, I was excited for Heavy Metal, that maps huge, but it's narrow, all 3 flags are in a row, just too boring. I want to see 4 flag maps, 3 flags in a row just isn't enough variety. 

Jets I'm up in the air about, still want to see some heavy infantry maps if they do add in jets. 

And faction specific weapons would be kinda cool. Along with more weapons.

6 person squads would be great also. But don't think Squad leader only spawn is something I want to see done.

Would like to see some more diverse kits, but I don't see any issues with LMG on Medic, not sure why that bandwagon is still going.


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## Nitro-Max (Jan 30, 2011)

-Prone
games ruined already.


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## streetfighter 2 (Jan 30, 2011)

1Kurgan1 said:


> I agree with those 2, I don't want to see prone back, it promotes camping, and hiding rather than capping flags, and with todays tech, theres so much great cover than the only thing prones going to get used for is dolphin diving.


And BF:NAM





And BF2 (Sonhua Stalemate; the majority of maps in BF2 take place in the desert)





I love you 1Kurgan1 , and there's no nice way to put this:  you're wrong. :shadedshu 

Go ahead and camp and hide.  Aint gonna stop me from rolling in with my tank and taking the flag.  A camping opponent is an easy opponent to defeat in BF 1942/nam/2.  You've been fooled by small maps and infantry heavy battles in BC2.

Bad maps are not an excuse for removing prone.  Also in BF3, foliage should be easy to clear (like real life).


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## EastCoasthandle (Jan 30, 2011)

One thing they got right in BC2 was decent midrange weapons for engineers.  So that must be added in BF3.  Another thing to contemplate is to allow snipers some assault rifles/shot guns, etc.  It's something to ponder upon as unlocks. I do agree that they have to remove sniper artillery and medic MGs though.


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## _JP_ (Jan 30, 2011)

I think prone camping only is an issue when, like streetfighter 2 said, in claustrophobic maps and infantry heavy battles. I remember, in the Flaming Dart map (BF:V), getting requests on the radio of camped snipers in the hills, I just had to radio my wingman to see if was busy with some MiGs (he could just let the Corsair guy deal with them) and bomb the hell of where they were hiding, the avg. was 2.5 kills per bomb and we had to do 3 passes.
It was harder for the ones in the Vietcong side, but they had rocket launchers in the MiGs and, when well aimed, it was easy to kill 2 snipers in one passage, plus, they could shoot-down planes very easily compared to the USA/SVA. So, taking this into account, heavy infantry maps - Yes! but big maps with air support (2 fighter-bombers, at least).


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jan 30, 2011)

streetfighter 2 said:


> And BF:NAM
> http://img.techpowerup.org/110130/battlefield-vietnam-b.jpg
> 
> And BF2 (Sonhua Stalemate; the majority of maps in BF2 take place in the desert)
> ...



Nam was an extremely unpopular game by comparison to 1942 or BF2, so it's really hard to judge. There was a class that had LMG, Rockets, and Paddles, or something crazy like that, so there was no need to play Recon ever.

I don't play recon, I don't camp and hide. I knife the ones that do, but it's not opponents that are camping that bother me, it's my own team, I can't stop them. Nothing worse than a guy who won't move into cap flags, or do anything else but sit and hide. 

Prone just isn't needed, theres cover everywhere, rocks are better cover than going prone in some grass. Because you can peek over the rock and shoot, yet you are almost impossible to hit or see. Prones a thing of the past, all people ever did was find ways to exploit it. I like the solution of killing snipers with vehicles, but I also don't want to be required to tank. I am a tanker, I'm damn good at it, but in BC2, I probably have more fun as infantry, using landmines or being a medic.



EastCoasthandle said:


> It's something to ponder upon as unlocks. I do agree that they have to remove sniper artillery and medic MGs though.



I don't see issues with either of those. Snipers Art is extremely easy to move out of. And Medics with LMG's are fine, I have no problem going against LMG's while being other classes. Remember, Medic don't have the killing weapons like Assault, or Engi, they got their gun and a pistol. They dont have the opportunity to kill a tank, or destroy a wall to find someone hiding, or to abuse the CG or Noobtube.


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## EastCoasthandle (Jan 30, 2011)

BF2 was great but one thing I never liked was locking a certain gun to a certain class.  That just didn't work as well as it should.  There should be a certain set of assault rifles one can choose from that's related to that faction and class.  The same goes for sniper rifles, sub machine guns, carbines and shot guns.


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## Easy Rhino (Jan 30, 2011)

bf3 must haves: a tpu server where nobody complains about dice's beta like server files


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jan 30, 2011)

Nitro-Max said:


> -Prone
> games ruined already.



Prone is not needed for battlefield. itll just lead to idiots camping in bushes far more then their already ready are and doing drop shots like in Campers of Duty. 

However id like to see a Legitimate M4A1 rifle, acog scopes, M14, MP5(love that gun) oh and different recoil for each gun. not just up and down but side to side kick depending on the gun.

Also give use a Plain old Death Match game type! Not Squad Death Match but Team Death match. 32/32 or 64/64


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## EastCoasthandle (Jan 30, 2011)

1Kurgan1 said:


> I don't see issues with either of those. Snipers Art is extremely easy to move out of. And Medics with LMG's are fine, I have no problem going against LMG's while being other classes. Remember, Medic don't have the killing weapons like Assault, or Engi, they got their gun and a pistol. They dont have the opportunity to kill a tank, or destroy a wall to find someone hiding, or to abuse the CG or Noobtube.


I'm thinking on a larger game playing scale here.  BC2 is at best a 32 player game.  BF3 should be at least double that if not more.  There is no way having 3-6 (being conservative here) sniper artilleries at one flag, etc won't be nothing but problems when concentrated in certain areas or choke points.  Artillery is best left with the commander as was BF2.  Even then people complained about it until some servers remove the option to use it.  As for medic trains with MGs?  Nah, I don't see that happening if support returns as a class in BF3.  Remember, they combined support with assault in BC2 while giving medics MGs.  So it was a combination to reduce the number of classes IMO.


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## streetfighter 2 (Jan 30, 2011)

1Kurgan1 said:


> Nam was an extremely unpopular game by comparison to 1942 or BF2, so it's really hard to judge. There was a class that had LMG, Rockets, and Paddles, or something crazy like that, so there was no need to play Recon ever.
> 
> I don't play recon, I don't camp and hide. I knife the ones that do, but it's not opponents that are camping that bother me, it's my own team, I can't stop them. Nothing worse than a guy who won't move into cap flags, or do anything else but sit and hide.
> 
> Prone just isn't needed, theres cover everywhere, rocks are better cover than going prone in some grass. Because you can peek over the rock and shoot, yet you are almost impossible to hit or see. Prones a thing of the past, all people ever did was find ways to exploit it. I like the solution of killing snipers with vehicles, but I also don't want to be required to tank. I am a tanker, I'm damn good at it, but in BC2, I probably have more fun as infantry, using landmines or being a medic.


Nah, it just had an M60 (machine gun) and a LAW (rocket launcher) and the M60 had virtually no kickback, but no paddles.  They did later patch is so you couldn't run around going full auto into people at 50+ meters with the M60. 

People who camp and don't actively cap are as much a part of the battlefield series as computer monitors.   It becomes trivial though because more than likely both teams are gonna get stuck with a similar number of campers.  When I was advancing as infantry in BF2 I would prone a lot to avoid being seen by tanks.  That's something that is a lot different in BC2 and can't really be compared.  That isn't to say BC2 is better, BC2 was designed principally as infantry game and in most of the maps the vehicles are severely disadvantaged.  (Several of the vehicles are themselves gimped.)

If the foliage is destroyable, which is not an unrealistic feature, then I think the whole argument becomes moot.  There aren't rocks everywhere to take cover on and even if there were there are still many situations were going prone is a valid, rational and useful tactic.

A weird side note, I hate unlock systems but I know they're not going anywhere.  Why reward the players who are already doing good?  That's rhetorical


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## WarhammerTX (Jan 30, 2011)

I disagree everyone associates prone with the sniper or recon class its useful in all classes there will always be people that camp. But I will tell you this I dont think you will see it in bf3 the frostbite, havoc engine cant do prone e.g mortar yourself,standing to close to an object and your bullets hit an invisible shield. They tried for bfbc2 and couldnt make it work.


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## EastCoasthandle (Jan 30, 2011)

Anyone remember Gulf of Oman during BF2 online demo era?  8 vs 8 with just 2 APCs and some jeeps.  Man that was fun and hooked nearly the entire internets into playing it.  After a while server admins increased it to 16 vs 16 (or something like that).  And people had a blast!  Then the game was officially released, everyone jumped on Gulf of Oman where you could man jets and helos and everyone then realized there was no decent cover when advancing .  Prone was definitely needed to hide from APCs and tanks but it didn't do much against air assets.  Any earthen mound was fair cover when using prone back then.  There is going to be more land/air assets in BF3 then in BC2 IMO.  So when one is forced to be infantry (because all the land/air/sea assets are gone) one does need prone.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jan 30, 2011)

EastCoasthandle said:


> I'm thinking on a larger game playing scale here.  BC2 is at best a 32 player game.  BF3 should be at least double that if not more.  There is no way having 3-6 (being conservative here) sniper artilleries at one flag, etc won't be nothing but problems when concentrated in certain areas or choke points.  Artillery is best left with the commander as was BF2.  Even then people complained about it until some servers remove the option to use it.  As for medic trains with MGs?  Nah, I don't see that happening if support returns as a class in BF3.  Remember, they combined support with assault in BC2 while giving medics MGs.  So it was a combination to reduce the number of classes IMO.



If you play Recon on Heavy Metal, you see that you can't even call Arty from 1 flag to the next, they are too far apart. If they keep it like that, I don't see a huge issue, especially if the maps get bigger. Also, Artys only hit small areas, 3 - 6 snipers covering a whole cap zone, would have to be coordinated heavily.



streetfighter 2 said:


> Nah, it just had an M60 (machine gun) and a LAW (rocket launcher) and the M60 had virtually no kickback, but no paddles.  They did later patch is so you couldn't run around going full auto into people at 50+ meters with the M60.
> 
> People who camp and don't actively cap are as much a part of the battlefield series as computer monitors.   It becomes trivial though because more than likely both teams are gonna get stuck with a similar number of campers.  When I was advancing as infantry in BF2 I would prone a lot to avoid being seen by tanks.  That's something that is a lot different in BC2 and can't really be compared.  That isn't to say BC2 is better, BC2 was designed principally as infantry game and in most of the maps the vehicles are severely disadvantaged.  (Several of the vehicles are themselves gimped.)
> 
> ...



Also, I don't mind good snipers that sit out when their team is fine. But what I hate is people capping from safezones, then crying when they get killed. And I hate when those people camping don't move in to help cap flags if their team is having trouble. BF is a team game, not like CoD.

I also don't really have any issues hiding from tanks, there are so many of those cement boxes and buildings, in the open desert, you will get owned. But thats how it should be. BC2 has tons of cover almost anywhere, even in the middle of the desert I can hide behind rocks and shoot at tanks, they try and rotate around to get me, I just move to the other side of the rock and keep firing. Games in the past, situations like that just meant you were dead.


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## DrPepper (Jan 30, 2011)

Battlefield 2 with the upgraded engine and graphics. Nothing scaled back, nothing toned down, nothing removed.


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## EastCoasthandle (Jan 30, 2011)

1Kurgan1 said:


> If you play Recon on Heavy Metal, you see that you can't even call Arty from 1 flag to the next, they are too far apart. If they keep it like that, I don't see a huge issue, especially if the maps get bigger. Also, Artys only hit small areas, 3 - 6 snipers covering a whole cap zone, would have to be coordinated heavily.


BC2 is only up to 32 players. Even though Heavy Metal can accommodate more (making it more spacious) I can't see the comparison to a map specially designed for higher player counts.  What I'm saying is that the higher the player count the more of a particular kit one will see on the field.  Once we start seeing maps that are designed for 64+ players you won't need to coordinate artillery strikes.  All snipers have to do is see a nice spawn point, choke point or capture point and artillery is on the way.  Free points are free points.  That's the motivator.  

In BC2 I am able to get several opponents using a good art strike.  Just wait for someone to get close to our Mcom and hide thinking he's a good spawn point.  Once I see them spawning they need a second or more to become oriented as to where they are on the map (depending on where the squad mate hides and which way the follow cam is facing).  By the time they are all ready to move out as a squad here comes the artillery from me.   Now image that happening by a factor of 2 or 3 snipers camping about


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## purecain (Jan 30, 2011)

they should add another important element... reputation... 
with the odd house full of civilians...so in killing them you could have/commit war crimes... then you could get extra xp for killing someone that has a bad reputation....
snipers could earn the reputation of camper... i'd love killing someone whos name appeares and next to it...camper!....

but the reputation idea definatly has legs....


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 30, 2011)

I highly *DOUBT* they will have prone. They are using an updated frostbyte engine. Its very difficult to code prone in an ever changing landscape. One second their is a nice flat road. The next second its a smoking hole in the ground (no longer flat).


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## EastCoasthandle (Jan 30, 2011)

purecain said:


> they should add another important element... reputation...
> with the odd house full of civilians...so in killing them you could have/commit war crimes... then you could get extra xp for killing someone that has a bad reputation....
> snipers could earn the reputation of camper... i'd love killing someone whos name appeares and next to it...camper!....
> 
> but the reputation idea definatly has legs....



I only wish VOIP actually works this time.


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## erocker (Jan 30, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I highly *DOUBT* they will have prone. They are using an updated frostbyte engine. Its very difficult to code prone in an ever changing landscape. One second their is a nice flat road. The next second its a smoking hole in the ground (no longer flat).



If they're going to have prone, they better have sit, lounge, lean and play-dead as well.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 30, 2011)

EastCoasthandle said:


> I only wish VOIP actually works this time.



It worked last time. I used it all the time.



erocker said:


> If they're going to have prone, they better have sit, lounge, lean and play-dead as well.



Im telling you.....no prone.


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## EastCoasthandle (Jan 30, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> It worked last time. I used it all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Im telling you.....no prone.



Yeah it did.  I was thinking of BC2


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## DrunkenMafia (Jan 31, 2011)

Hopefully there will be 1 vs anything that moves deathmatch.  I am not much of a team player and I hate having to pause for a moment to see if the dude is on my team.  

I also hate it when you are in a knife fight and a squad member spawns on you, scares the crap outa me.


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## DrPepper (Jan 31, 2011)

DrunkenMafia said:


> Hopefully there will be 1 vs anything that moves deathmatch.  I am not much of a team player and I hate having to pause for a moment to see if the dude is on my team.
> 
> I also hate it when you are in a knife fight and a squad member spawns on you, scares the crap outa me.



Hopefully not. I've been a big bf played since 2 came out and the teamwork aspect is what differs it from crap games like cod.


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## ctrain (Jan 31, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> Must haves for BattleField 3:
> 
> -Prone
> -64 to 128 players
> ...



Prone, ok.
128 players would be moronic.
More weapons are pointless since they can't even balance what exists now.
Squads could use changes but I like the system in place now.
Doesn't need more kits, BF2142 was the pinnacle balance wise and only had 4.
Medics in BF2 were literally assault with a med kit. They had the same rifles.




TheMailMan78 said:


> I highly *DOUBT* they will have prone. They are using an updated frostbyte engine. Its very difficult to code prone in an ever changing landscape. One second their is a nice flat road. The next second its a smoking hole in the ground (no longer flat).



Why would this be difficult? It's nothing special over you just walking over it. It's adjust view height, some parameters changed around and an animation. It's literally already been in the engine, the key bindings are still in the config files.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 31, 2011)

ctrain said:


> Why would this be difficult? It's nothing special over you just walking over it. It's adjust view height, some parameters changed around and an animation. It's literally already been in the engine, the key bindings are still in the config files.



Dice already said its not possible with the engine. I doubt that will change.

As for the 128 players why would it be moronic? I mean that would be awesome. If you wanna have little 8 vs 8 circle jerks then go play with your CoD's. Leave the epic battles to BF players.


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## ctrain (Jan 31, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Dice already said its not possible with the engine. I doubt that will change.
> 
> As for the 128 players why would it be moronic? I mean that would be awesome. If you wanna have little 8 vs 8 circle jerks then go play with your CoD's. Leave the epic battles to BF players.



It was in the game, the key bindings still exist. It was in game and they took it out.

Because all 128 players is in reality is the desire for PC GAMING MASTER RACE people to stroke their dicks over gigantic numbers. It would be stupid from a gameplay point of view. BF2 with 128 would be stupid, the server costs and load would be comical, and the only people that think it would really be a good idea are people that have something to prove.


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## Soylent Joe (Jan 31, 2011)

I wouldn't mind having the ability to lean left and right. Prone would be a bad idea.

Also I hope they really refine the destruction engine. Make everything destructible and have the destruction realistic, like in real life.

They also should tighten up the hitboxes. It seems like I'm always getting hit from bullet spray behind solid cover.


----------



## douglatins (Jan 31, 2011)

i hated those guys that stayed in a airplane for an entire round without dying


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## f22a4bandit (Jan 31, 2011)

Actually, 128 person games promote squad work rather than hinder it, so I think it's a great idea. I'm not going to go out in a vastly open map without at least three other people by my side. Despite the criticism it receives, I think what MAG attempted to do with the massive battles will work on the PC side. It certainly worked in Call of Duty 2.

I'd want to see lean make a comeback as well. I think it's a useful function.

I really see no reason why they need to change medics. Sure they carry a light machine gun, but they don't carry anything that makes them broken. Now if they carried a LMG along with a rocket launcher/c4/any explosive, then you have a problem brewing.

I'm not afraid of having prone back, although I don't think it's truly necessary anymore. Aircraft will expose the weakness of going prone and camping anyway.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 31, 2011)

ctrain said:


> It was in the game, the key bindings still exist. It was in game and they took it out.
> 
> Because all 128 players is in reality is the desire for PC GAMING MASTER RACE people to stroke their dicks over gigantic numbers. It would be stupid from a gameplay point of view. BF2 with 128 would be stupid, the server costs and load would be comical, and the only people that think it would really be a good idea are people that have something to prove.



Obviously you are a console troll and me being of the master race have no need to discuss such matters with you. Back to your hole console troll. You cannot troll a master troll.


----------



## BondExtreme (Jan 31, 2011)

The only thing I ask of DICE is that they don't screw up the launch on BF3 like they did with BFBC2 for PC. Anyone remember that? The launch for the pc version of that game was HORRIFIC! The servers were screwed up for at least two weeks. DICE please get yourself together for this next release!


----------



## BumbleBee (Jan 31, 2011)

Soylent Joe said:


> I wouldn't mind having the ability to lean left and right. Prone would be a bad idea.
> 
> Also I hope they really refine the destruction engine. Make everything destructible and have the destruction realistic, like in real life.
> 
> They also should tighten up the hitboxes. It seems like I'm always getting hit from bullet spray behind solid cover.



see here.

what you really want is this but it's still a couple years away.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Jan 31, 2011)

Dude I'm not gonna say a word or even think too much about this game so as to lessen the disappointment at worst or be awesomely surprised at best.


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## BumbleBee (Jan 31, 2011)

you don't want to upset the master race!


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## Zen_ (Jan 31, 2011)

-No prone, but increased spread while moving and slower spread recovery after sprinting. Sorry, dolphin diving in BF2 was retarded. 

-Decreased effectiveness of destruction, more durable buildings and covered points. I still want destruction but it screws with map balance too much as is. 

-No explosive damage perk or upgraded sniper scope perk. Explosive upgrade is all spam shit, 12x scope in BC2 enables bad bush wookies that don't help the team. 

-Faster overheat of stationary and mounted (vehicle) MGs with more recoil bounce. 

-Decreased effectiveness of helo auto cannons, but decreased effectiveness of AA weapons and any rocket assist against air vehicles. 

-Cool down for 40mm nades and hand grenades (hard time limit, say 1 per minute) 

-Revision of 3D spotting. Shouldn't follow target or even spot in the precise location. 

I don't care about 64 or 128 player servers. 32 has been the practical limit for awhile now because more players puts an exponentially greater load on the game server. Most people rent cheap servers, rubberbanding and lag sucks.


----------



## Nick89 (Jan 31, 2011)

1Kurgan1 said:


> Nam was an extremely unpopular game by comparison to 1942 or BF2, so it's really hard to judge. There was a class that had LMG, Rockets, and Paddles, or something crazy like that, so there was no need to play Recon ever.
> 
> I don't play recon, I don't camp and hide. I knife the ones that do, but it's not opponents that are camping that bother me, it's my own team, I can't stop them. Nothing worse than a guy who won't move into cap flags, or do anything else but sit and hide.
> 
> ...



no class had paddles in BF:nam

Prone should be in BF3. BattleField 3 IS NOT BAD COMPANY THREE. 

Not having prone in BC2 is ok to me because it is not BATTLEFIELD 3.

If you don't like prone wait for BC3 then. 

If BF3 does not have prone it will be a POS game.

AGAIN BF3 IS NOT Bad Company. Those are things in BC, They SHOULD NOT be in BF3.

In BF2 my most played class was engineer not sniper and I fucking need prone goddammit! go back to BC2 if you don't like prone.



ctrain said:


> Prone, ok.
> 128 players would be moronic.
> More weapons are pointless since they can't even balance what exists now.
> Squads could use changes but I like the system in place now.
> ...



Mag on PS3 has 256 player battles. 

If the squad system you are referring to is the system from BF2 then yes. If it is the system from BC2 thne HELL no. 

I'm thinking five or six kits.

Medics use the same rifles as assualt in real life.



douglatins said:


> i hated those guys that stayed in a airplane for an entire round without dying



Then you hate ME. Congratulations.



Zen_ said:


> -No prone, but increased spread while moving and slower spread recovery after sprinting. Sorry, dolphin diving in BF2 was retarded.
> 
> -Decreased effectiveness of destruction, more durable buildings and covered points. I still want destruction but it screws with map balance too much as is.
> 
> ...



There was no dolphin diving in BF1942. Why would there be in BF3 with a whole new engine.

LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN! This is not BFBC3. This is BF3. BF3 SHOULD NOT have ANYTHING to do with BFBC. EVER.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 31, 2011)

i want the zip line and grappling hook to come back


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## btarunr (Jan 31, 2011)

It must have fighters/bombers, and AAA. Maybe some aircraft-intensive large maps should also have SAM launchers like in BF2.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jan 31, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> no class had paddles in BF:nam
> 
> Prone should be in BF3. BattleField 3 IS NOT BAD COMPANY THREE.
> 
> ...



I like how everyone thinks BF3 is this magical game that will full fill their wildest dreams and give them a unicorn and a ferrari. BC2 is a name, that is all, the next game in the BF line will be based on things they have learned from previous titles, it will not be magically different and so much better.

You can cry all you want about prone being needed, but with current games and the cover supplied, it isn't needed. Especially if maps get bigger, so many great hiding spots, crouch in a bush, bam your gone. I've knifed so many people when they run past me hiding in a bush, it's great. Older games, wasn't that easy to just hide in a bush or there wasn't cover everywhere, but they have made the game so almost anything can be crouched behind.

Once again, BF3 is not magical, it will not make gold appear at the end of rainbows, and monkeys fly, or solve world hunger, it's another game in the BF line. You keep making it up to more than what it is and your going to get very angry when it comes out.


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## erixx (Jan 31, 2011)

If 128 players can act like an army (2 confronting armies), bring it on! if it is 128 bunnies running like pizza delivery in Rome, no thanks, that shit got to stop someday.


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## InnocentCriminal (Jan 31, 2011)

It's as DrPepper said. All I want is BF2 remade in the latest Frostbite engine. Destructible terrain, pretty DX11 graphics but exactly the same game-play & dynamics. 

Battlefield Play 4 Free is essentially that but it's immensely crippled.... obviously. Oh, and prone isn't a problem when jets are flyin' about bombin' t'fuck out of shit.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 31, 2011)

Listen just take BF2 and remake the entire game with the new engine. Add some maps and up the player/vehicle count and done.


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Jan 31, 2011)

If DICE listened to everyone with an opinion BF3 would be the gaming equivilant of Homer's car. 






IMO what BF3 needs in comparison to BC2 is more larger maps, more vehcicles, commander system, larger squads, and working voip. Some extra bonus items would include the comm-rose, ghost spectating, and battle recorder. 64 players is enough.. any more than that and the average joe will probably feel marginalized. 

BF3 should also attempt as much as posisble to incorporate some version of BF2142's Titan mode. Now I know many die-hard BF2 fans didnt like BF2142 but *Titan mode is the best FPS game mode ever invented. *


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jan 31, 2011)

TRIPTEX_CAN said:


> If DICE listened to everyone with an opinion BF3 would be the gaming equivilant of Homer's car.
> 
> http://www.ballerride.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/the-homer-car-simpsons-powell-motors.bmp
> 
> ...



Thats exactly what I'm saying. People are getting their hopes way up, I personally love BC2, I just want to see bigger maps, a few more guns, maybe jets, and a few other things. If they try and reinvent the wheel here and botch it, I won't be happy. 

I've built some games way up in my time, and almost everytime it was a massive let down, and some of those times the games were great, but I built them up to be far beyond great, no matter what they released, it just never could have stood up to my expectations, so I was angry.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 31, 2011)

1Kurgan1 said:


> Thats exactly what I'm saying. People are getting their hopes way up, I personally love BC2, I just want to see bigger maps, a few more guns, maybe jets, and a few other things. If they try and reinvent the wheel here and botch it, I won't be happy.
> 
> I've built some games way up in my time, and almost everytime it was a massive let down, and some of those times the games were great, but I built them up to be far beyond great, no matter what they released, it just never could have stood up to my expectations, so I was angry.



Man all they have to do is a true sequel. BF2 with new graphics. Thats it.


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## Black Haru (Jan 31, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Man all they have to do is a true sequel. BF2 with new graphics. Thats it.



I disagree. I for one would like to see what new things DICE has cooked up. if they had the ingenuity to bring us the titles they have, what do they have for us next?

BF2 updated is boring.


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## EastCoasthandle (Jan 31, 2011)

I think the general consensus is that BF3 should be just like BF2 in nearly every regard.  Sure there can be some improvements:
-better hit registration
-better weapon selection
-better server browser
-friends list
-all expansion packs incorporated in to BF3
-etc

But the gist of the game should be the same.  Features/abilities like prone, spawning on the squad leader, squad leader giving orders, having a commander, supply drops, etc should be included if they plan on going large scale.  BF3 should be in all intent and purpose a large scale online FPS.  That is what BF2 was all about.  BC2 on the other had was not thus why we saw some the gimped abilities like spawning on any squad mate (no chain of squad command), no voip, reduction of a kit, no prone, reduced bullet damage, no supply drops, etc and story mode unlike BF2.  But that does not mean that those gimped abilities/lack of features should also be incorporated in BF3 if the model is large scale.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jan 31, 2011)

I want:

FarCry 2 like Fire

Pathing issues fixed. I hate getting stuck on a rock that I could easily walk up.

More realistic bullet drop, especially on the Heavy Tanks.

I would like to be able to climb trees

Major damage increase on users who launch 40MM/Rockets at super close range. I think it should be insta-gib and EPIC FAIL - 200xp

Major increase in velocity of Rockets

More impact on hearing. Like I think you should have ringing ears for longer and blurred vision for longer. Even standing next to a tank firing would make you close to deaf for a little bit.

Doors that just open and do not require shooting or knife to open.

More screaming to help give away position. If you get shot your not just gonna go,,Ouch Im taking fire here... Agony screams!


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jan 31, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Man all they have to do is a true sequel. BF2 with new graphics. Thats it.



I personally didn't really ever get into BF2. It was ok, but I like 1942 DC mod much more. BC1 was the first time I enjoyed something like I did the DC mod. So I wouldn't be too happy about a BF2 copy.




ZenZimZaliben said:


> I want:
> 
> FarCry 2 like Fire
> 
> ...



Theres a list I agree with, little things, but more immersion related, I like it!


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 31, 2011)

I miss flying those big MIGs that drop 5 bombs all at once. they flew like a f**king hippo tied to an elephant and I hated the way they felt so sluggish and slow at the controls but, if its a clear sky then id really rack up a nice kill count - till i accidently drop 5 bombs on my own team mates and get kicked from server.

single seater fighters was cool. but those 2 seaters are dog chow for the single seaters. and thats something i could never understand why. one of the major advantages the single seater jets had was their ability to take corners that would shatter your neck into so many itty bitty peices. and youd think it would be a little worse on the double seater - cuz their bigger n heavier but my god they were terrible to fly and you cant dogfight worth a shit in them because the smaller jets were so much faster and can turn harder n faster then you can  but i digress. flooring the throttle on the dual seater and pulling it into a vertical climb and dropping back down to earth again with a missile so close to your 6 you could hear the rocket fuel in it fizzing away is just awesome - then i start doing my stunts n flying under low bridges and open hangars Because thats what i do.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 31, 2011)

Black Haru said:


> I disagree. I for one would like to see what new things DICE has cooked up. if they had the ingenuity to bring us the titles they have, what do they have for us next?
> 
> BF2 updated is boring.



Then you and Kurgan should get room because BF2 was far better in its day then BC2 ever was.


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## Black Haru (Jan 31, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Then you and Kurgan should get room because BF2 was far better in its day then BC2 ever was.



bf:2 and bc2 are not comparable titles, nor did I hake any mention of bc2 in my last post.

I was just saying that I am interested to see what DICE has been working on, since they have made such excellent games in the past.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 31, 2011)

Black Haru said:


> bf:2 and bc2 are not comparable titles, nor did I hake any mention of bc2 in my last post.
> 
> I was just saying that I am interested to see what DICE has been working on, since they have made such excellent games in the past.



That Ill buy.


----------



## Frederik S (Jan 31, 2011)

Must have less random aim. Less achievements and better hit boxes. And a specific LAN mode that lets the user adjust everything for all of us that used to play BF2 competitively. 

Basically it should be way more like BF2 than all the other useless BF titles that DICE has worked on for the last couple of years. 

And of course they should make a better anti cheat engine so that people cannot get away with swapping colors and doing other odd stuff online. 

Almost forgot, drop all the unlocks just give people guns that are balanced.


----------



## ShiBDiB (Jan 31, 2011)

im on the no prone bandwagon.. Snipers r annoying enough


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jan 31, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Then you and Kurgan should get room because BF2 was far better in its day then BC2 ever was.



Thats your opinion, mine is that 1942 was better than either game (and I do enjoy BC2 more than I ever did BF2). I did not like the BF2 maps one bit. El Alamein on 1942 DC mod is my favorite map of any FPS to this day, you want big maps, look to that, not BF2's maps.

And something that worked 6 years ago, isn't going to work now. I don't want to see dev's whipping out reskinned games left and right.


----------



## ctrain (Feb 1, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Obviously you are a console troll and me being of the master race have no need to discuss such matters with you. Back to your hole console troll. You cannot troll a master troll.



Apparently I have no idea how to play BF games at all and have no idea what i'm talking about
http://bfbc2.statsverse.com/stats/pc/ctrain/

I don't know what you have to help prove your point but I have literally been called gay by the announcer on a live COD2 match stream and won an nvidia tshirt after coming in second in a UT tournament (vs a 5600 fx which was slower than the t-shirt so I basically did win) among various other achievements of which you could never accomplish given an infinite quantity of time.

When I step into servers you better believe that I'm about to usher in newfound and previously unforetold echelons of noobness that revel far beyond what your fragile mind is capable of even dreaming.


----------



## garyinhere (Feb 1, 2011)

ctrain said:


> I have literally been called gay by the announcer on a live COD2 match stream and won an nvidia tshirt after coming



what kind of game you play'n?


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Feb 1, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> what kind of game you play'n?



Apparently some kind of homosexual game where they give you an Nvidia shirt for cumming. I really have no idea but, apparently ctrain is really good at it.


----------



## garyinhere (Feb 1, 2011)

ctrain said:


> When I step into servers you better believe that I'm about to usher in newfound and previously unforetold echelons of noobness that revel far beyond what your fragile mind is capable of even dreaming.


Most of us don't dream like that


TheMailMan78 said:


> Apparently some kind of homosexual game where they give you an Nvidia shirt for cumming. I really have no idea but, apparently ctrain is really good at it.



Word


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## DonInKansas (Feb 1, 2011)




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## Zen_ (Feb 1, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> If BF3 does not have prone it will be a POS game.



What's the big hangup with prone?

I like prone in Day of Defeat because the game has very high damage guns, one shot headshot from any gun and actual recoil on automatic guns. Prone decreases your profile and auto recoil but increases the chance of a headshot death. If a grenade lands next to you you're also dead unless you have the reflexes and time to throw it back. 

BF3 is bound to have instagib rocket launchers and tube grenades which means for players actually fighting, prone, if it wasn't instant up / down BF2 dolphin diving it would be suicide. Only mile away bush snipers would use it to make it even harder see them and dink them with automatics at long range.


----------



## btarunr (Feb 1, 2011)

Try being a non-recon guy facing a squad of proning douchebags in medium~high range.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 1, 2011)

Zen_ said:


> What's the big hangup with prone?
> 
> I like prone in Day of Defeat because the game has very high damage guns, one shot headshot from any gun and actual recoil on automatic guns. Prone decreases your profile and auto recoil but increases the chance of a headshot death. If a grenade lands next to you you're also dead unless you have the reflexes and time to throw it back.
> 
> BF3 is bound to have instagib rocket launchers and tube grenades which means for players actually fighting, prone, if it wasn't instant up / down BF2 dolphin diving it would be suicide. Only mile away bush snipers would use it to make it even harder see them and dink them with automatics at long range.



With the amount of grass, bushes, and many other types of cover in games now compared to games of the past. I am not going to sit and dissect each bump in the terrain to see if it's a grubby camping sniper. 

Theres so much cover in games now, it just isnt needed. Prone in DoD or CoD are smaller maps, and urban situations, a prone sniper in a bush way of on some hill 5 miles away from any flags with his thumb up his ass, because he's too scared of hurting his KDR, is going to be a pain in the ass to find. Theres already enough people who move to the border of the map and do nothing, add in prone so they are even harder to find, and it will just get worse.

BF3 won't have insta kill rockers or noobtubes, unless hit dead on. Those are secondary weapons, DICE has said they don't intend for people to use them over their main gun. And I doubt that philosophy will change.


----------



## Nick89 (Feb 1, 2011)

1Kurgan1 said:


> With the amount of grass, bushes, and many other types of cover in games now compared to games of the past. I am not going to sit and dissect each bump in the terrain to see if it's a grubby camping sniper.
> 
> Theres so much cover in games now, it just isnt needed. Prone in DoD or CoD are smaller maps, and urban situations, a prone sniper in a bush way of on some hill 5 miles away from any flags with his thumb up his ass, because he's too scared of hurting his KDR, is going to be a pain in the ass to find. Theres already enough people who move to the border of the map and do nothing, add in prone so they are even harder to find, and it will just get worse.
> 
> BF3 won't have insta kill rockers or noobtubes, unless hit dead on. Those are secondary weapons, DICE has said they don't intend for people to use them over their main gun. And I doubt that philosophy will change.



The grass and bushes DISAPPEAR AT LONG RANGE. What are you smoking? I want some. 

that means snipers need prone for long range. cause grass does not render at long range.

They haven't put GRENADE launchers in BF games since before the gimp patch that turned the M203 and GP30 in BF2 in M80 launchers instead of grenade launchers.


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 1, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> The grass and bushes DISAPPEAR AT LONG RANGE. What are you smoking? I want some.
> 
> that means snipers need prone for long range. cause grass does not render at long range.
> 
> They haven't put GRENADE launchers in BF games since before the gimp patch that turned the M203 and GP30 in BF2 in M80 launchers instead of grenade launchers.



At extremely long range it does, but not mid range. I don't want to have to check everything from 20ft in front of me, all the way to the horizon. People should be moving, capping flags, and such. Not hiding with their thumb up their ass.

And I wasn't talking about GRENADE launchers (we done with the caps here?), I was responding to exactly what he said. And even if I was, you are wrong, BC2:Nam has a real grenade launcher. And they still won't balance it to be the main killing weapon, it's not intended. Its for removing walls and such.


----------



## f22a4bandit (Feb 1, 2011)

If you want a game with any hint of realism such as bullet physics, the game should also include prone. While I agree snipers are annoying and that cover is much better than in the past, these things don't justify leaving prone out of a game. I really don't understand the non-prone argument. You're always going to have campers in a FPS game, no matter if it's a DICE or Activision title; it's something you're going to have to deal with. Now if they do have prone, they will have to change bullet physics to actually match weapon specs. This game, however, isn't meant to be a mil-sim. It's meant to sell and make DICE money.


----------



## streetfighter 2 (Feb 1, 2011)

This argument is pushing stupid.

BC2 and BF2/1942/nam are not really comparable, as has been stated.

BF2/1942/nam did not emphasize infantry combat.  If you talk with people who have played lots of shooters they will clearly indicate that BF2/1942/nam was not particularly good when thought of as an infantry shooter.  BC2 was a paradigm shift for DICE to the, culturally popular, infantry dominant game.

Those saying that prone is good are imagining BF3 as being a diverse weaponry shooter, à la BF2/1942/nam.

Those saying that prone is bad are imagining BF3 as continuing the trend towards infantry dominant gameplay.

The resolution to this argument is null and void.  **** you, I'm going home.


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## Nick89 (Feb 1, 2011)

streetfighter 2 said:


> This argument is pushing stupid.
> 
> BC2 and BF2/1942/nam are not really comparable, as has been stated.
> 
> ...



Agreed.


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 1, 2011)

streetfighter 2 said:


> This argument is pushing stupid.
> 
> BC2 and BF2/1942/nam are not really comparable, as has been stated.
> 
> ...



Exactly how I feel about the future of the titles, not reinventing the wheel, but pushing forward with new things. And I think BF3 will still have a lot of infantry based maps, which I honestly, been loving in BC2, when I use to be a tanker.


----------



## boise49ers (Feb 1, 2011)

Bow said:


> Huge open maps like the good ol days of Joint Operations


I remember getting lost in that game a few times. Crysis too 



ShiBDiB said:


> im on the no prone bandwagon.. Snipers r annoying enough



Wouldn't that open it up to that lame dolphin diving crap too ? That is one of the many things I a hate about BO. If you were to actually dive to the ground like that with a rifle in hand there are multiple things that could and eventually would happen to you in combat. Wind knocked out of you, break a rib of two, bust an elbow. I put it right up there with a bunny hoppers. I realize re-spawning is also impossible any moron knows that, but I like realistic combat. I got so fed up with bunny hoppers in COD 4 I started dedicating my rounds to hunting them down.


----------



## netieb (Feb 1, 2011)

The REAL battlefield titles for pc always had prone. And BC2 is just a port so i hope dice will differ between port and a real pc game.


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## Black Haru (Feb 1, 2011)

netieb said:


> The REAL battlefield titles for pc always had prone. And BC2 is just a port so i hope dice will differ between port and a real pc game.



anything DICE says is battlefield is battlefield. 

as for a PC port, I would say yes and no. BC2 is a sequel to a console only game. regardless of how they did it, in order to make it feel like a true sequel, it had to maintain a lot of features. that said, I would like to see a bit better PC support.


----------



## Frederik S (Feb 1, 2011)

1Kurgan1 said:


> Exactly how I feel about the future of the titles, not reinventing the wheel, but pushing forward with new things. And I think BF3 will still have a lot of infantry based maps, which I honestly, been loving in BC2, when I use to be a tanker.



Lol BF2 had infantry only mode..


----------



## Zen_ (Feb 1, 2011)

1Kurgan1 said:


> BF3 won't have insta kill rockers or noobtubes, unless hit dead on. Those are secondary weapons, DICE has said they don't intend for people to use them over their main gun. And I doubt that philosophy will change.



If you're prone you'll die to those weapons a lot more. I haven't read anything from dice concerning explosive spam (i.e. nade / rocket abuse) and how that will change in BF3. Grenade cool down, or god forbid not being able to resupply hand grenades? Fat chance. I've played BC2 so much that I instantly recognize engineers with a rocket shouldered and dash away to avoid instagib deaths, as well as avoiding nade spam zones altogether unless there's no other choice.


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 1, 2011)

Frederik S said:


> Lol BF2 had infantry only mode..



Yeah, thats what I mostly played, and I disliked the maps. I like a mix of open and closed.



Zen_ said:


> If you're prone you'll die to those weapons a lot more. I haven't read anything from dice concerning explosive spam (i.e. nade / rocket abuse) and how that will change in BF3. Grenade cool down, or god forbid not being able to resupply hand grenades? Fat chance. I've played BC2 so much that I instantly recognize engineers with a rocket shouldered and dash away to avoid instagib deaths, as well as avoiding nade spam zones altogether unless there's no other choice.



Possibly, but thats if your prone up in the combat area. And I do hate CGers also, I like to score headshots on them as they are trying to aim for my feet.


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## BumbleBee (Feb 2, 2011)

netieb said:


> The REAL battlefield titles for pc always had prone. And BC2 is just a port so i hope dice will differ between port and a real pc game.



the removal of prone was a conscious decision it had nothing to do with consoles.


----------



## TRIPTEX_CAN (Feb 2, 2011)

BumbleBee said:


> the removal of prone was a conscious decision it had nothing to do with consoles.



I disagree. Had BC2 been a PC exclusive I *guarantee* it would have included prone without a second thought. The consoles controls are limited to a certain accuracy and reflex time that given the effectiveness of BC2's camoflage (and destruction 2.0) would have proven useless in battling against snipers.


----------



## EastCoasthandle (Feb 2, 2011)

f22a4bandit said:


> If you want a game with any hint of realism such as bullet physics, the game should also include prone. While I agree snipers are annoying and that cover is much better than in the past, these things don't justify leaving prone out of a game. I really don't understand the non-prone argument. You're always going to have campers in a FPS game, no matter if it's a DICE or Activision title; it's something you're going to have to deal with. Now if they do have prone, they will have to change bullet physics to actually match weapon specs. This game, however, isn't meant to be a mil-sim. It's meant to sell and make DICE money.



I don't think it's hard to see that BC2 is a gimped version of BF2.  There are many things that weren't included in BC2 such as the bullet deviation when standing, crouched and prone as with the others I posted earlier.  If people don't see BC2 being a BF there is no reason to omit features/abilities from the BF3.   Some elements of a mil-sim were used in BF2 to make the game unique.  So having some of it doesn't detract from the game.  But hasn't it been said many times over that BC2 is not BF3?  If so, I can't see them gimping on the abilities/features.


----------



## BumbleBee (Feb 2, 2011)

a controller and keyboard both use rubber domes to actuate. a controller has 4 face buttons that can have 8 functions, a directional pad, 2 analog sticks, 2 triggers, 2 bumpers, start, select. consoles have First Person Shooters with the ability to go prone. nothing was stopping DICE if they really wanted it in the game.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 2, 2011)

Infantry only for Battlefield 3 is just a stupid thought. I mean the more vehicles the better. Its nerve racking to see an enemy tank 5 feet away from you and the kit you have has nothing to take it out. You have to just wait it out and hope he doesn't see you.

Or how about when a chopper knows you are hiding somewhere and keeps circling looking for you. I'm not even going into the teamwork aspect of things. These things are what make Battlefield. If you want infantry only then go play COD.

As for the whole prone thing well it would be nice......but I doubt it will be in BF3 due to the engine.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 2, 2011)

Here is some battlefield info....

 Battlefield 3 Clubhouse


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 2, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Infantry only for Battlefield 3 is just a stupid thought. I mean the more vehicles the better. Its nerve racking to see an enemy tank 5 feet away from you and the kit you have has nothing to take it out. You have to just wait it out and hope he doesn't see you.
> 
> Or how about when a chopper knows you are hiding somewhere and keeps circling looking for you. I'm not even going into the teamwork aspect of things. These things are what make Battlefield. If you want infantry only then go play COD.
> 
> As for the whole prone thing well it would be nice......but I doubt it will be in BF3 due to the engine.



I agree that it shouldn't be an infantry based game. But I do want to see some infantry maps. It sucks to rely on teamwork when your playing with a bunch of randoms, but a good working squad, can rip apart a tank. I use to tank a lot of Atcama, I now mostly just landmine smart spots and run infantry, much more entertaining to see the landmine kills. Then you see tanks start getting afraid to even come to flags, and when you beat them psychologically, you win.


----------



## DrPepper (Feb 2, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Infantry only for Battlefield 3 is just a stupid thought. I mean the more vehicles the better. Its nerve racking to see an enemy tank 5 feet away from you and the kit you have has nothing to take it out. You have to just wait it out and hope he doesn't see you.
> 
> Or how about when a chopper knows you are hiding somewhere and keeps circling looking for you. I'm not even going into the teamwork aspect of things. These things are what make Battlefield. If you want infantry only then go play COD.
> 
> As for the whole prone thing well it would be nice......but I doubt it will be in BF3 due to the engine.



My favourite moments in the game were ambushing vehicles or outrunning them and attacking them or drawing fire for a sniper team mate to c4 his ass.

My favourite tactic against a tank as a non AT is to simply rush towards them and let them see and pretend I'm throwing C4. They ALWAYS jump out, I take the tank I kill them and our team has one more tank and they have one less.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Feb 2, 2011)

Prone is fail and heres why.

On the Frostbite engine you can already knife people through walls and random objects

lets add prone where due to the cameras location and the hit box design players can exploit that and make themselves nearly impossible to hit. Still remember that in BF2 prone and then back into a building or under a trash bin or some crazy shit. Couldnt hit the guy but he can hit you.

Prone is usefull but in general  dolphin diving is retarded no one in real life jumps 3 feet in the air goes prone and fires there gun all the way down. and maintains accuracy let alone can that be done without someone fucking themselves up in the process.

no one magically can phase there body through concrete walls to help survive gunfire.

If prone was implemented properly i wouldnt mind but this is DICE

the company whos patcher used for BC2 is broken and admits it they also admit this broken patcher will be used in BF3

its the company that decided it needed a latency checker to even things out and instead tends to screw things up.

its the company that managed to systematically make the hitbox worse over time then it was at the outset.

If they bring back prone they better it get it right is all im gonna say but they got bigger issues to fix then being able to lay the hell down.

and a prime example of there cock ups that i see happening with prone.

you every notice on your screen you look out a window your gun clears the window and you fire at ppl, yet anyone look at it you shooting from that window can only see your head and your guns shooting through a wall. random shit like that is annoying fix that then maybe id be willing to accept prone as a viable feature. Till then its most likely just gonna be same old same old if it returns.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 2, 2011)

Speaking of window thing, that works with rocks and 2x4 piles, pisses me off. The other day a guy cried because I AT4'd the wood he was behind, it didn't kill him, but its basically an exploit, I couldnt hit him, what else could I do besides use it to remove his cover (which it is intended for)


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## crazyeyesreaper (Feb 2, 2011)

yup 1 side can exploit it the other can do nothing about it its lame and prone functions much the same way.. eitherway  theres good features to add and bad. DICE cant add a feature they cant properly control and i cant see them doing animations and changes to prone for every slope or object in game in order to properly use prone.

i can see it now go prone on some stairs only your shoulders and head visible your looking straight forward. in reality your ass its looking down a 45 degree angle and your probably sliding lol. gotta love games though brings out the greatest ideas evar  and lets face it anyone arguing for prone you all know its true THIS is the stupid shit players will use prone for to get a near exploit edge over an opponent. not to actually hide from a damn tank or some such. The community at large as always will exploit something like that it dosent add to the game it dosent make it more fun it litterally just pisses everyone off and they rage quit lol.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 2, 2011)

That is exactly what I am talking about. In my experience, prone has been used more for exploits rather than being used by Recon. Theres just too many ways to break it, it does make Record harder to find, but thats not what worries me, its people breaking it.


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## ctrain (Feb 2, 2011)

TRIPTEX_CAN said:


> I disagree. Had BC2 been a PC exclusive I *guarantee* it would have included prone without a second thought. The consoles controls are limited to a certain accuracy and reflex time that given the effectiveness of BC2's camoflage (and destruction 2.0) would have proven useless in battling against snipers.



prone was originally in the PC version of BC2, they felt removing it had a positive impact.


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 2, 2011)

I believe that, and I do agree. But many factors to that decision, beyond just recon using it.


----------



## Nick89 (Feb 2, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Infantry only for Battlefield 3 is just a stupid thought. I mean the more vehicles the better. Its nerve racking to see an enemy tank 5 feet away from you and the kit you have has nothing to take it out. You have to just wait it out and hope he doesn't see you.
> 
> Or how about when a chopper knows you are hiding somewhere and keeps circling looking for you. I'm not even going into the teamwork aspect of things. These things are what make Battlefield. If you want infantry only then go play COD.
> 
> As for the whole prone thing well it would be nice......but I doubt it will be in BF3 due to the engine.



I couldn't have said it better myself Mailman. There needs to be tons of vehicles and prone needs to be in the game so you can hid behind a one foot tall wall while that APC is shooting at you.



1Kurgan1 said:


> That is exactly what I am talking about. In my experience, prone has been used more for exploits rather than being used by Recon. Theres just too many ways to break it, it does make Record harder to find, but thats not what worries me, its people breaking it.



If thats the case then lets just take everything out of the game becasue everything can be exploited.


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Feb 2, 2011)

ctrain said:


> prone was originally in the PC version of BC2, they felt removing it had a positive impact.



A positive impact on lessening platform wars and general QQ. 

I honestly believe Destruction 2.0 had an effect as well. I dont believe DICE would have been able to remove all the foreseeable exploits from combining prone and Destruction. I still somewhat blame the consoles because as a member of the glorious PC gaming master race I must blame every lame limitation we endure on the smelly consoles.


----------



## Black Haru (Feb 2, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> I couldn't have said it better myself Mailman. There needs to be tons of vehicles and prone needs to be in the game so you can hid behind a one foot tall wall while that APC is shooting at you.
> 
> 
> 
> If thats the case then lets just take everything out of the game becasue everything can be exploited.



but all the walls are destructible... so a one foot high wall does no good no matter what.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 2, 2011)

Black Haru said:


> but all the walls are destructible... so a one foot high wall does no good no matter what.



vehicle guns cant aim that low.


----------



## boise49ers (Feb 2, 2011)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> Prone is fail and heres why.
> 
> On the Frostbite engine you can already knife people through walls and random objects
> 
> ...



Totally Agree !


----------



## BumbleBee (Feb 2, 2011)

John McClane dolphin dives 







come out to the coast, we'll get together, have a few laughs..


----------



## Black Haru (Feb 2, 2011)

Mussels said:


> vehicle guns cant aim that low.



this makes no sense. you can aim any gun anywhere from the proper angle, in this case, it's just a bit of distance.


----------



## majestic12 (Feb 2, 2011)

I just want the commander option... and jets/bombers.


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## Mussels (Feb 2, 2011)

Black Haru said:


> this makes no sense. you can aim any gun anywhere from the proper angle, in this case, it's just a bit of distance.



but going prone near the vehicle is a way to avoid its fire. as opposed to the current stupid method of jumping on top of it to plant C4.


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## ctrain (Feb 2, 2011)

Mussels said:


> but going prone near the vehicle is a way to avoid its fire. as opposed to the current stupid method of jumping on top of it to plant C4.



not that this matters in bc2 since no vehicle weapons can possibly aim low enough to hit someone within 5 feet of you, tanks especially. being on top of an enemy vehicle will just get you killed instantly the second it starts to move faster than 4mph.

you could prone under tanks in bf2 though for whatever that was worth.


one thing i want back is perma-death.



majestic12 said:


> I just want the commander option... and jets/bombers.



if jets return they need to be considerably less retarded. they were comically broken in bf2 but pretty alright in vietnam.


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## erixx (Feb 2, 2011)

they should just make it impossible for single mammals aka individuals to do a run thru enemy lines, killing him server-side with a "You are abandoning your peloton, return or die".

ah! And completely scrap the "oh-how-funny-random-respwans" from the game code!!!

And increase fatigue + trembling hands (mouse) after running

And add acurate obstacle climbing physics, erasing jumping physics form code, I DONT WANT TO LMAO WATCHING BUNNIES AND BUILDING PARACHUTING, HAVE SEEN IT, CALLED THE PLAYERS AND DEVS ALL NAMES, AND ENOUGH IS ENOUGH  

Maybe gotta put my stocks on Flashpint Red River, they call it "Thinking man's shooter"


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## Nick89 (Feb 2, 2011)

ctrain said:


> not that this matters in bc2 since no vehicle weapons can possibly aim low enough to hit someone within 5 feet of you, tanks especially. being on top of an enemy vehicle will just get you killed instantly the second it starts to move faster than 4mph.
> 
> you could prone under tanks in bf2 though for whatever that was worth.
> 
> ...



One time there was a APC driving straight at me when I was in the middle of the road, I proned and he drove over me and I didn't die! (if the tires hit you then you are still dead thought).

That is another reason why prone is so awesome!


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## BumbleBee (Feb 2, 2011)

bring on Dolphin Rolling.

Battlefield 3: John Woo edition. 

Prone + Lean Left, Lean Right to roll.


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## DannibusX (Feb 2, 2011)

BF3 must have Xbox 360 controller support.


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## erixx (Feb 2, 2011)

DannibusX said:


> BF3 must have Xbox 360 controller support.



Must? hahahahahahahaha! Nice trolling, wow! 

Wait! BF3 for Xbox maybe has what you want! hahahaha


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## BumbleBee (Feb 2, 2011)

erixx said:


> Must? hahahahahahahaha! Nice trolling, wow!
> 
> Wait! BF3 for Xbox maybe has what you want! hahahaha



I think he meant to fly aircraft.


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## erixx (Feb 2, 2011)

I fly aircraft with my Thrustmaster stick, so what's the prob?


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## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 2, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> If thats the case then lets just take everything out of the game becasue everything can be exploited.



Theres middleground on everything. I'll flip it and since, don't remove anything at all. There comes a time when you say, ok this just doesn't work right, time to axe it. Looks like you cut your hand, time to cut it off, because the most extreme measures for the smallest cases, is always the best choice.



Mussels said:


> vehicle guns cant aim that low.



Sure they can, matters what kind of ground your on, uneven ground I will use to angle my tank up to shoot at choppers, or down to shoot at infantry a lot. And if there is someone hiding behind a crate or a dip in the groun, they can't see me, they are hiding scared, they aren't completely aware of where I am or if I'm in the vehicle, I get out and knife them. Best hiding spot vs a tank, is literally hugging the side, because if they get out to kill you, it shows the hotkey to hop in.


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## BumbleBee (Feb 2, 2011)

erixx said:


> I fly aircraft with my Thrustmaster stick, so what's the prob?



sounds like a sex toy.


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## erixx (Feb 2, 2011)

1Kurgan1 said:


> if they get out to kill you, it shows the hotkey to hop in.



Lo! Here's a veteran! Nice tip


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## boise49ers (Feb 2, 2011)

erixx said:


> Lo! Here's a veteran! Nice tip


I love doing that. If I see a guy with C4 running at the tank I'm in and I'm to close to get away and shoot him I will try and jump out to kill him, and run like hell if he hops in. Usually dieing of course. That seems to be what I'm best at


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## erixx (Feb 2, 2011)

Beware not only the enemy. Often my tank is stolen by teammates when I jump out to piss in the woods...


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## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 2, 2011)

erixx said:


> Lo! Here's a veteran! Nice tip



Yeah, thats what I do when I am playing Medic, can't do anything to a tank, so safest spot is literally hugging the thing. They will get nervous and expect that you have an engineer or recon in your squad and they will get out to kill you so those people can't spawn. Then you gank it, push C quick to see what kit they are, if they got C4 jump out and kill them, as they will have their c4 sticks out and be throwing them so cant detonate and you got your gun.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 2, 2011)

As long as the game doesnt end up like this.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7r9RqWBdl8&feature=player_embedded


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## ShiBDiB (Feb 3, 2011)

well i guess if we get prone, we can make more of these


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## Nick89 (Feb 3, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> well i guess if we get prone, we can make more of these
> 
> http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demotivational-posters-i-snipers.jpg



See theres another use for prone! triple knife kills!


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## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 3, 2011)

Don't need prone for that, they could be standing or hanging upside down, either way they are too busy watching people a long ways away through scopes to pay attention to the guy they don't know are standing behind them. Though it is funny if one of them hears his buddys scream and puts down the scope to look, they get a little jiggly, do a little dance, then get put down, always like that. Knifing Snipers is one of my favorite activities, usually go for the ones who sit on the very edge of the map and don't help their team.


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## kid41212003 (Feb 3, 2011)

I like to give them GL or rocket in the face or ass when i'm behind them.


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## DannibusX (Feb 3, 2011)

erixx said:


> Must? hahahahahahahaha! Nice trolling, wow!
> 
> Wait! BF3 for Xbox maybe has what you want! hahahaha



This game is going to suck on PC and you'll barely be able to play it.  Consoles are obviously superior in this case.  Matchmaking, better pings, etc.


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## garyinhere (Feb 3, 2011)

DannibusX said:


> This game is going to suck on PC and you'll barely be able to play it.  Consoles are obviously superior in this case.  Matchmaking, better pings, etc.



I tend to agree... it is obvious that this game is geared towards consoles and not PC's


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## EastCoasthandle (Feb 3, 2011)

Hmm, I wonder if BF3 will offer P2P similar to MW2 do to the issues currently seen in BC2? That's one way to remove the load off EA's backend.  Granted that doesn't imply that will be the only option available.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 3, 2011)

MW2 barely pulled it off with small maps and no vehicles. Imagine a 64 player map thats probably 5 or 6 times larger than a MW2 map, heck I bet maps like Atcama are even that much larger than COD maps. There isn't really issues with BC2, the issue is the latency fixer, which is intended, just it doesn't work how they want it to.


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## EastCoasthandle (Feb 3, 2011)

But that's if BF3 will have at least 64 player servers.  It might be between 8-32.  Who knows for sure.  We assume that it will be 64+ but there's no telling with them.


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## BumbleBee (Feb 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> I tend to agree... it is obvious that this game is geared towards consoles and not PC's



it bugs me when a DICE developer comes out in October and says "Battlefield 3 (PC) will not be consolized" because he will be giving it the special attention it needs. if Battlefield 3 wasn't built for the consoles from the ground up, why does the PC need any special attention at all?


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## EastCoasthandle (Feb 3, 2011)

As the time draws near towards BF3 I am reminded of a post someone made about a year ago:


> 1. Programmer produces code he believes is bug-free.
> 
> 2. Product is tested. 20 bugs are found.
> 
> ...



The point being that the #1 must have is a bug free experience.  They've had several years to prefect BF3.


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## garyinhere (Feb 3, 2011)

I know what you mean and I'm not knocking how they develope the games... it's smart.... how many people have an Xbox and a headset? that = money and a lot of it... console players are not as picky as PC players... PC spend ass tons of money and want a quality game... consoles spend $300 and will play crap games and have fun doing it.


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Feb 3, 2011)

fun game play


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## 1Kurgan1 (Feb 4, 2011)

EastCoasthandle said:


> But that's if BF3 will have at least 64 player servers.  It might be between 8-32.  Who knows for sure.  We assume that it will be 64+ but there's no telling with them.



Yeah, its unknown right now. But even with BC2 map size, destruction 2.0, and vehicles, I can't see that working too well. I hear about issues with that just on small COD servers without all that added stuff.


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## EastCoasthandle (Feb 4, 2011)

So it's 64 player and prone is back.  I figured as much.  No way one can play a 64 player maps with assets without prone.  That just doesn't make sense.


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Feb 4, 2011)

I'm sofa king happy they are bringing prone back to BF. With the way the sniper situation has developed in BC2 I find it hard to believe prone could actually make the situation worse. IMO the ghillie suit created a larger issue with camping snipers than prone ever could have. 

VIVA LA PRONE


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## EastCoasthandle (Feb 4, 2011)

TRIPTEX_CAN said:


> I'm sofa king happy they are bringing prone back to BF. With the way the sniper situation has developed in BC2 I find it hard to believe prone could actually make the situation worse. IMO the ghillie suit created a larger issue with camping snipers than prone ever could have.
> 
> VIVA LA PRONE



I don't know why people don't like prone in a real BF game.  It's as if they were hoping for a run and gun style game play.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 4, 2011)

Prone was good! but people didnt like dolphin divers (jump then straight to prone)


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## EastCoasthandle (Feb 4, 2011)

But prone is not dolphin diving.  Besides they already figure out how to prevent that in BF2.  It's an easy enough fix.


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Feb 4, 2011)

brandonwh64 said:


> Prone was good! but people didnt like dolphin divers (jump then straight to prone)



They've fixed this since BF2142 where diving was NEVER a problem. It's not complicated for DICE to add a standard diviation causing 2-5 seconds of horrible aim when a player enters the prone position from jumping or standing.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 4, 2011)

Yea if they can fix it then that would be perfect but i dont want to try to shoot someone that jump in the air then goes to prone mid air to avoid getting shot


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Feb 4, 2011)

brandonwh64 said:


> Yea if they can fix it then that would be perfect but i dont want to try to shoot someone that jump in the air then goes to prone mid air to avoid getting shot



If you're in a good (stable) firing stance it shouldnt matter.


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## EastCoasthandle (Feb 4, 2011)

The whole issue was the instant kills associated with dolphin diving.  They were using a dll hooked script, etc.  They weren't doing that by hand (in any effective, continuous way).  So, EB incorporated a feature with PB that allowed servers to kick for script use.  But only a few used it though.  But what they did to fix it in BF2 was more then enough to remove dolphin diving, head shot scripts, etc that was going on.

Now as for BF3, I'm sure they've incorporated some sort of delay be it getting to prone position, ability to aim or weapon deviation.  But I'm sure something was done so there is no repeat of BF2 v1.0.


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## Frederik S (Feb 4, 2011)

In BF2 they did a delay between posture changes which effectively stopped dolphin diving. Dolphin diving was in competitions never outlawed, and was in the begging a technique that everyone used in BF2, no scripts were needed.

There was no support for script-use kicking in BF2. PB was and still is completely outdated. For online competitions extra anti cheat software was required to run on all contestant PCs. Not doing so at any time during a match would result in immediate ban at least in the more serious online tournaments.


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## EastCoasthandle (Feb 4, 2011)

Frederik S said:


> In BF2 they did a delay between posture changes which effectively stopped dolphin diving. Dolphin diving was in competitions never outlawed, and was in the begging a technique that everyone used in BF2, no scripts were needed.
> 
> There was no support for script-use kicking in BF2. PB was and still is completely outdated. For online competitions extra anti cheat software was required to run on all contestant PCs. Not doing so at any time during a match would result in immediate ban at least in the more serious online tournaments.



Sorry but your not correct here.  


> A cvar is a game setting.  Cvars can be used to customize the game, but cheaters sometimes abuse cvars to exploit holes or bugs in the game in order to cheat.  Admins of PunkBuster Servers have the ability to add specific recurring checks for players' cvar values during gameplay.  If you have *downloaded or written game scripts to automate tasks, then those scripts* almost certainly will add and/or change cvars in your system.  You will receive a warning if a cvar on your system is not in the range allowed by the Admin of the Game Server to which you are currently connected - the warning will also include the allowed range of values for the specified cvar.  If you do not heed the warning, *then after a few seconds or minutes, the PunkBuster Server will raise a violation and remove you from the Game Server*.


PB

I remember it was added back then because there were a few threads discussing it.  In the end it was an option to enable and most server admins didn't enable it.  And in order to "worm" around the map, etc and head shot others they did use (at the very least) dll hooked scripts, etc.  I think you are trolling with that extraneous post.  But meh, whatever you're incorrect.

In any case, I don't think those dll hooked scripts will be a problem in BF3.  But we will see.


----------



## Frederik S (Feb 4, 2011)

Of course PB can kick for cvar mismatch. We were discussing dolphin diving macro / script.


----------



## EastCoasthandle (Feb 4, 2011)

Anyway, I believe they took all that into consideration in BF3 and are more prepared for it this time around.  I'd be surprised to see any odd movement glitching.


----------



## newconroer (Feb 4, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> Must haves for BattleField 3:
> 
> -Prone
> -64 to 128 players
> ...



Not to flog the dead horse about jumping, hopping and insta-diving, but if they just use some realism for once, you can still have all those actions and they won't be vulnerable to abuse.

A) You can prone pretty fast, but your aim is royally degraged for at least a second or two. Slamming onto the ground chest first isn't pleasant, and then trying to jam a scope in your eye is going to take additional time.

B) Jumping has to be a fluid animation consisting of several mechanical motions from the body. To simply 'jump' in one motion is what causes most of the problem - that and they need to update hit boxes to be more intelligent in that situation.

C) Strafe speed is a big deal. People complain about jumping, but have you ever tried to 'strafe' in real life? It's hard enough doing it without equipment or a weapon; try it for five seconds, you'll probably lose your balance. On the battlefield or in any fire fight, you don't start running sideways, you can't dodge bullets. Straffing should make your movement awkward, and in turn throw your aim and your vision off. Additionally, trying to jump and turn or jump and straffe will result in you NOT landing on your feet.



I don't agree that enforcing a stamina penalty is necessarily the solution. Most games would put a meter in so you could gauge your stamina and that's just wrong. There's no HUD in combat, and when adrenaline is going and you feel numb, you need to know what you're doing, even if you can't feel it. It's called experience. Furthering the meter issue, stamina penalty will just make people do all their 'special moves' in bursts - it cuts down the issue, but does not resolve it.

I could carry on, but most issues would work themselves out if they'd stop for a minute and just try to resemble something realistic. 


Maybe in an unrelated note, but this is a nitpick I have of all combat games, especially shooters - and I don't know a fullproof solution. 
On the back of a few comments so far regarding knifing snipers and going after snipers who sit on the edge of a map and don't help their team - that's great and all, but how exactly do you get behind a sniper? Maybe they're so bad they simply missed you, yet in a combat situation, you don't make that assumption. You need recon, skill and some luck and a prayer. Games like this, you know you can just respawn, or even in non respawn matches you know that you can wait five minutes and start a new round. There's never a feeling of wellbeing. So you have all this flora and bushes to hide in, but why bother when you can sprint for thirty seconds through an open battlefield and get behind shooters and then kill them? Or you have a game objective, plant the bomb. You wait in a corner for the opportune moment, then just run out and plant it then run off and hide. Really? What kind of idiotic objective is that? When would that ever happen? 


I find the biggest culprit is speed. The games are just so accelerated versus how motion and action takes place in the real world. And people are also impatient, so not only is it about the pace of the action but also the pace of the game itself, and everything there-in.

Too many of these games are about insta-graitifaction, and until that changes, they'll always be viewed as arcadish and subsequently be favored by console players who - at this point - are a more lucrative audience for developers.

ARMA will probably never goto consoles, and even if it did, the playerbase would be tiny in contrast - and rightly so.

Developers need to start making clear definitive lines between games like Halo/Unreal Tournament, and military operations like the COD or BF series ; because in most cases, the only distincation being made, is in the art, sounds and environments.


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## EastCoasthandle (Feb 4, 2011)

We are going to need to wait and see what they actually did to address it.  I only hope all that is sorted by then.  

But there are other facets of the game that are important as well.  Such as chain of command, leadership roles, etc.  In BC2 even at 32-players trying to give out an order was very confusing.  There was no real definitive command to give attack/defend order.  Unless you look at the actual mcom/flag and noticed that halo above animating.  In BF2 that was much more pronounce with a squad leader and that sword followed by smoke showing you the actual point of attack/defend, etc and it didn't have to be a primary objective point.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 4, 2011)

I just hope its not buggy as hell and they cram BC2 and BF2 together and its love child makes me loose sleep at night


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## FreedomEclipse (Feb 4, 2011)

EastCoasthandle said:


> We are going to need to wait and see what they actually did to address it.  I only hope all that is sorted by then.
> 
> But there are other facets of the game that are important as well.  Such as chain of command, leadership roles, etc.  In BC2 even at 32-players trying to give out an order was very confusing.  There was no real definitive command to give attack/defend order.  Unless you look at the actual mcom/flag and noticed that halo above animating.  In BF2 that was much more pronounce with a squad leader and that sword followed by smoke showing you the actual point of attack/defend, etc and it didn't have to be a primary objective point.



but in BC2 theres a lot more emphasis on squad play. whether or not your squad mates listen to your command or not is their business but if they did then obviously there are bonus points to be earned unlike BF2 and thats where the difference is - it rewards you for being part of a squad. but i agree. having a commander would give the squads a better sense of direction. but one thing i have noticed when playing BF2 as commander is that very few people will squad up and very few squads will obey commands. most of the fun about playing commander is being able to Arty spawn points and uncapables.

so I think peoples general attitude is very poor. so hopefully BF3 will reward more if players follow commands


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## EastCoasthandle (Feb 4, 2011)

FreedomEclipse said:


> but in BC2 theres a lot more emphasis on squad play. whether or not your squad mates listen to your command or not is their business but if they did then obviously there are bonus points to be earned unlike BF2 and thats where the difference is - it rewards you for being part of a squad. but i agree. having a commander would give the squads a better sense of direction. but one thing i have noticed when playing BF2 as commander is that very few people will squad up and very few squads will obey commands. most of the fun about playing commander is being able to Arty spawn points and uncapables.
> 
> so I think peoples general attitude is very poor. so hopefully BF3 will reward more if players follow commands


BC2 had no real command structure, no VOIP, etc with no real way to coordinate a good attack or defense.  So I can't agree that BC2 offers "more" emphasis on squad play. There are times when I see enemies flanking left but I have no quick way of letting (at least) my squad know this as they run straight up the middle after spotting them.  Sure you can text it but that means I need to take cover, open up the chat box and text it which takes way to much time.  

In BF2 you could use the command rose and tell your squad makes "Move out, attack here" with that sword/smoke combo letting people know that the enemy was flanking.  Something that users were more attentive to then just spotting alone.  Or better yet be told of it by the commander.  Something we cannot do in BC2.  In BC2 you can only issue orders at flags and mcoms.  With BF2 using a squad leader you can issue orders anywhere on the map.  That IMO is far better emphasis on squad play.


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