# i need help swapping out a dell motherboard



## keakar (Feb 15, 2016)

I have a friend who has an old dell slimline OptiPlex 745 with Pentium d 3.4ghz cpu and 1gb (4x512mb) ram. the motherboard only has the number intel L2820P-01 on it but nothing shows when I search for that board number.

I want to help her upgrade this thing but she literally has no money at all to do it with (she said she could spend around $25) so its been sitting in the closet with win xp on it for years.

my question is this, will any dell mb fit in it and work? I know dells have different power plugs and mounting points so I cant put generic boards in it but do all dell boards swap out? or at least the last time I knew anything about dells they were different from generics.

what I would like to do is find a used cpu motherboard combo to put into it to bring it out of the dark ages and I have found an OptiPlex 755 MB and OptiPlex 760 MB that both have core 2 duo cpu already packaged with them and are being sold around $30 so I would like to put those in it but I have no idea if this will work or even fit and i cant spend my money on it to help her unless im sure it will fit and work (because she isnt that kind of friend) so I need someone who knows dells to say one way or the other before I commit to spending money just to do something nice for a friend.

as a follow up question, will any ram fit and work in dells or does it need to be a "special" type for dells?

thanks for any help you can give me


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## sneekypeet (Feb 15, 2016)

Next time, rather than creating a second thread, just ask the mods to move it 

The largest issue I can see, is that the 745 and 755 seem to come with four case sizes and likely various motherboard form factors. The 760 seems to come in only one form.


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 15, 2016)

Just patiently stock up money. Not wise to invest into a dead platform, upon you cannot give guarantee it will work even a year.... Best solution to stock up and buy a cheap 200-300$ laptop... if used you can get one even for 100$


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## Norton (Feb 15, 2016)

Have her save a few $$$ up and get a refurb from NewEgg- plenty of HP and Dell model with Win7 included for under $100:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...deId=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&page=1


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2016)

guys you are missing the point here, she has NO money so im trying to help her have a computer and most likely will have to donate some of my own money for this.

she is a 70 year old grandma living on social security and barely paying the bills.

we all know its best to just buy something in todays reality of computer but that's just not an option here for her and im not willing to be spending more then spare pocket change on something for a non relative nice old lady I would just like to help out.



sneekypeet said:


> Next time, rather than creating a second thread, just ask the mods to move it
> 
> The largest issue I can see, is that the 745 and 755 seem to come with four case sizes and likely various motherboard form factors. The 760 seems to come in only one form.



sorry peet, ya I thought about it, but then thought it fit both categories and i might get better response if I just reposted.

I didn't realize the form factors changed even though it was the same label models. I thought or was hoping, all OptiPlex boxes were the same cases.

I think she has an even older win 98 dell (demension i think) that is a normal sized case if there is any chance that has any chance of being useful



Norton said:


> Have her save a few $$$ up and get a refurb from NewEgg- plenty of HP and Dell model with Win7 included for under $100:
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100019096 8000&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&ActiveSearchResult=True&page=1



I was looking at those Norton, definitely looks to be a really good option considering petes comments about form factor issues


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## 95Viper (Feb 15, 2016)

Is it the mini-tower, desktop, small form factor, or the ultra-small form factor?

Dell OptiPlex 745 tech specs

They have different PSUs, motherboards, etc.; however, you can replace the MB, sometimes with a third party board... gotta get the correct form factor that fits.
They mostly, use regular ole memory of the correct type.
You can replace the PSU in some... just gotta know the type (form factor) used and size, in some cases.

The stock parts are, usually, minimal in specs.


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2016)

95Viper said:


> Is it the mini-tower, desktop, small form factor, or the ultra-small form factor?
> 
> Dell OptiPlex 745 tech specs
> 
> ...


oh wow, thanks viper.

its the mini tower one

but looking at these specs, if I am reading correctly, is it saying I can max out all those listed specs there?

as in get a core 2 duo processor and 8gb ram to upgrade it?

*EDIT - I was wrong, its the slim line one. they showed it laying on its side so I didn't think that was it but its only like 4" thick so none of those look just like it. (see post below where I put up a picture of it)*


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## 95Viper (Feb 15, 2016)

Probably... I have upgraded, replaced, swapped parts in and out of HPs, Dells, Gateways, etc. many times.

Some time it is just finding the specs and getting the correct parts.  Sometimes it is a space limit.
Most follow the standard specs as far as the basic stuff... mostly, it gets harder in the smaller form factors.

If it is a tower case, then it is probably just a MB with a mini atx form factor.

In the tower, I would guess you could use that CPU.
Chances are, if you figure out the chipset used and what it supports, using the latest bios update for the board... you could feasible use any CPU in the board the the chipset and power allowed would support.

Well it looks to support Pentium D 900 series CPU which is 95W, so you should have no problem with an Intel® Core™ 2 Duo e6000 series which is a 65W cpu.

Just make sure your memory is within those specs and you should be OK.


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 15, 2016)

It looks like BTX not mini itx to me.


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2016)

ok I have confirmed its the slim line that looks like this


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## 95Viper (Feb 15, 2016)

Good eye... yep, it is a BTX board.

EDIT:



keakar said:


> ok I have confirmed its the slim line that looks like this



That actually, looks like the "Desktop" version.


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## Jetster (Feb 15, 2016)

Good luck wit this. Its not made to be worked on


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## Static~Charge (Feb 15, 2016)

keakar said:


> ok I have confirmed its the slim line that looks like this



No, that is a desktop chassis; it uses a 5.25" optical drive. The SFF (Small Form Factor) and USFF (Ultra Small Form Factor) both use laptop slimline optical drives. See here for a picture showing the different chassis form factors.


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## 95Viper (Feb 15, 2016)

Jetster said:


> Good luck wit this. Its not made to be worked on



But, can be.


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## red_stapler (Feb 15, 2016)

There should be a white label with a "CN" PPID number on the bottom edge of the motherboard next to the PCI slot.  CN-0XXXXX where XXXXX is the part number.


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## Static~Charge (Feb 15, 2016)

Note that a Dell motherboard is usually proprietary. You have to replace it with another Dell board.

The cheapest fix is to get another 745 motherboard. The fastest CPU that it can support is the Core 2 Duo E6700, and the BIOS supports up to 8GB of memory. I've upgraded half a dozen 745's at work with an E6700 and 8 gigs of DDR2 memory. They're suitable for basic use, and the Core 2 Duo CPU is much faster than the Pentium 4. A replacement motherboard sells for around $20 on eBay; be sure to check it for bad capacitors. A Core 2 Duo E6700 CPU goes for around $10. These are cheap & easy upgrades that are guaranteed to work.

I checked the technical guides for the 745 and 755. They appear to have the same port layout on the back of the chassis. This is an important issue; the I/O panel cover is actually part of the chassis and thus not removable. It appears that you might be able to install a 755 board in a 745 chassis, but I've never done this.


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2016)

95Viper said:


> Probably... I have upgraded, replaced, swapped parts in and out of HPs, Dells, Gateways, etc. many times.
> 
> Some time it is just finding the specs and getting the correct parts.  Sometimes it is a space limit.
> Most follow the standard specs as far as the basic stuff... mostly, it gets harder in the smaller form factors.
> ...


I haven't dealt with computer upgrades in over 10 years so im lost where to even start.

did that motherboard number i posted above tell you anything?

was your link above for that specific board or as I suspect, just general info on that line of dell computers?

do you have any idea where I can get specific info on the intel L2820P-01 board? bios, drivers, max specs and requirements?


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 15, 2016)

keakar said:


> guys you are missing the point here, she has NO money so im trying to help her have a computer and most likely will have to donate some of my own money for this.


I don't believe we are missing the point. I believe we are all telling you the point is, this is not a worthwhile project.

Even if you could get this going for next to nothing invested, she would still have an antique, obsolete, and most importantly, a computer severely lacking in security (unless you can put a modern operating system on it - but who's paying for that?).

And what is she going to do with it after that? Can she afford the monthly payments for an Internet connection?

If her budget is that tight, I recommend checking out Walmart refurbished. Not only do they come with a more secure operating system, but they also come with a 1 year warranty. And many of these system will out-perform that old thing too.


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## Jetster (Feb 15, 2016)

Sure it can be fixed. If he has the time. Its just very challenging. BTX board and proprietary connections. Dremel and soldering. I have modded quite a few old Dells but no longer have the time or patents. I think I have an old Optiplex around in a closet somewhere


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## Static~Charge (Feb 15, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> I don't believe we are missing the point. I believe we are all telling you the point is, this is not a worthwhile project.
> 
> Even if you could get this going for next to nothing invested, she would still have an antique, obsolete, and most importantly, a computer severely lacking in security (unless you can put a modern operating system on it - but who's paying for that?).
> 
> ...



He's doing the best that he can with the money and resources at his disposal. Normally, I would recommend replacing a PC this old with an off-lease OptiPlex 790 (can be had for $90 - $125 on eBay). However, if he doesn't have the cash, that ends the discussion.

If you want to run an operating system that's substantially more secure than Windows XP, install Linux Mint on the machine. It's free, and it will run fine on an OptiPlex 745 with a Core 2 Duo and at least 4 gigs of RAM (speaking from experience here). If you can use XP, you can figure out the basics of Mint in 2 minutes.


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## Static~Charge (Feb 15, 2016)

Jetster said:


> Sure it can be fixed. If he has the time. Its just very challenging. BTX board and proprietary connections. Dremel and soldering. I have modded quite a few old Dells but no longer have the time or patents



Repair/upgrade it using Dell parts (as much as Dell lets you), and it's an easy job; no Dremeling or soldering needed.

I don't like being fitted with a straight jacket when I buy a PC. This is why I always build my own.


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## Static~Charge (Feb 15, 2016)

keakar said:


> do you have any idea where I can get specific info on the intel L2820P-01 board? bios, drivers, max specs and requirements?



Dell OptiPlex 745
Product Support
http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/product/optiplex-745/drivers


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## Jetster (Feb 15, 2016)

Static~Charge said:


> Repair/upgrade it using Dell parts (as much as Dell lets you), and it's an easy job; no Dremeling or soldering needed.
> 
> I don't like being fitted with a straight jacket when I buy a PC. This is why I always build my own.



The problem is Dell contracts their parts out. So the same system may have different boards and different connections and mounts. I don't buy OEM ether for the same reason. Refurbished OEM Dells are all over the place for cheap and i still dont buy them. Laptops maybe


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## Beertintedgoggles (Feb 15, 2016)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883185012&ignorebbr=1

Sorry to jump on the bandwagon and keep throwing options at you that you didn't ask... however, that refurb already has Win 7 Home Premium installed, a Core2 Duo @ 2.3GHz, 2GB DDR3 installed, DVD-ROM, and a 160GB HDD.  All that for only $65 with free shipping.  Buying the MB, RAM, CPU, and possibly OS would be almost impossible for that price.


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## stinger608 (Feb 15, 2016)

I had a client 2 or 3 years ago that had one of these exact same systems and wanted to see if I could upgrade with newer technology. I ended up taking a board out of a newer model but I can't remember exactly which model it was. I remember it was an Intel Socket 1366 and supported the Xeon quad core processors which I ended up getting for him. 

However, as has been stated, it is a BTX format so one must keep that in mind. I also remember I had to do some cutting on the rear I/O plate as the newer model wasn't even close to the older 745.


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## sneekypeet (Feb 15, 2016)

@Static~Charge please dont triple post. Use the edit or multi-quote feature.


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## Static~Charge (Feb 15, 2016)

Jetster said:


> The problem is Dell contracts there parts out. So the same system may have different boards and different connections and mounts. I don't buy OEM ether for the same reason. Refurbished OEM Dells are all over the place for cheap and i still dont buy them. Laptops maybe



Buy a Dell-brand motherboard made for that model & form factor, and it will work.


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## red_stapler (Feb 15, 2016)

Follow this guy's instructions:


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2016)

thanks guys, all info was accurate and well received

I knew im kinda spinning wheels on this project with such limitations but I think I found a solution

I came across this deal that pretty much fit her needs perfectly so I guess it was one of those perfect timing things

check it out, its a Dell Optiplex 960 (160 GB, Intel Core 2 Duo, 3 GHz,3 GB Ram) PC with windows 7 pro installed

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231846872671?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I love that it eliminates any swap compatibility issues because its the complete assembled computer ready to go.

its still weak on ram at only 3 GB but good enough for her needs being a grandma and all

I now remember why I hate dell so much, why must they make these things so unreasonably hard to upgrade? but i guess we all already know its so you rather buy new ones then try.


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## Frick (Feb 15, 2016)

Find a C2D. E6x00 would be a massive upgrade and wouldn't cost much.


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2016)

Frick said:


> Find a C2D. E6x00 would be a massive upgrade and wouldn't cost much.


the one listed above has the E8400

=====================================


one last question guys, I don't think anyone actually addressed my question about compatibility concerns of adding ram to dells, will generic ram work or does it need to be "dell" classified ram?


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## alucasa (Feb 15, 2016)

keakar said:


> one last question guys, I don't think anyone actually addressed my question about compatibility concerns of adding ram to dells, will generic ram work or does it need to be "dell" classified ram?



I like the fact that the machine has 3gb RAM. It's a lot better than having just 2gb.

As for RAM compatibility, the best way is have a look at the existing ram and try to find something that is close in both ram speed and CAS. Ideally, you want the exactly same stuff even then there is a chance that the motherboard would just reject it.


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## Azumay (Feb 15, 2016)

its 32 bit os. 3 gig is all you will get.
3gig is fine for web surfing


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## Beertintedgoggles (Feb 15, 2016)

Those Windows 7 keys can be used for 32-bit or 64-bit installs.  All you need to do for 64-bit is reinstall the OS with the included Win 7 key from the computer.  If it doesn't have a sticker it is still very easy to determine the installed OS key.  With that said, more than likely that computer only has two RAM slots.  3GB isn't horrible but 4GB is better.  Remove the 1GB stick and get a generic stick of 2GB and install it.  It does not have to be some special "Dell verified / classified" memory.  Just run CPU-Z and try to make it match closely to the other installed stick (even then, no biggie if it doesn't.  The MB will downclock the speed and timings to the slower of the two).


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2016)

I don't know which version of windows it has and I have no idea if it even has a windows cd with it. I think it is just what software is on it and that's all, the seller never mentioned any software disks so I don't it has one. im not too concerned about that part but more concerned with the hardware and what can be done there. I can handle figuring out any OS issues/limitations at a later time.


what about upgrading the cpu to a Q9550?

I was looking at these specs on the 960 and it "seams" to suggest I can use the "Q" processors in it and put up to 8gb ram.

please look at page 2 of this Dell Optiplex 960 owners manual and tell me if im off base on this assumption: http://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/...desktop-optiplex-960-customer-brochure-en.pdf

I have seen a few Q6600 and Q9400 on ebay for like $10 so I was thinking that I could upgrade the cpu and then hopefully find a cheap set of 8gb ram


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## stinger608 (Feb 15, 2016)

keakar said:


> I was looking at these specs on the 960 and it "seams" to suggest I can use the "Q" processors in it and put up to 8gb ram.




Yep, it has the Q45 chipset which supports the 9000 series of quad core "core2duo" chips. 

I have an ole Alienware that I'm sporting a Q9650 in and hell, it still runs pretty dang good.


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## red_stapler (Feb 15, 2016)

keakar said:


> why must they make these things so unreasonably hard to upgrade?



Because you're dealing with a corporate platform that is meant to be leased for 3-5 years and then replaced, rather than an enthusiast platform.


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## keakar (Feb 15, 2016)

stinger608 said:


> Yep, it has the Q45 chipset which supports the 9000 series of quad core "core2duo" chips.
> 
> I have an ole Alienware that I'm sporting a Q9650 in and hell, it still runs pretty dang good.



well it looks like the Q9300 is the best fit. the Q6600 is basically the same price as the Q9300 so that's out, and after taking a second look, the one Q9550 I saw for $10 is sold already. the rest of the Q9550 are going around $25 each and the Q9650 looks to be going like $35-$40 price range.

not looking to "max out" the capacity to where the board may not be compatible happy without needing upgraded bios and all that, I just want to get close to it "as-is" if I can while doing it at the best value.

so that said, the Q9300 upgrade from the E8400 seams like a no brainer to me and I just need to get the box open and see what can be done to max out what the board can handle for the memory.

you guys are always great here, best website in the world to come to get good, accurate, and always helpful advice


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## red_stapler (Feb 16, 2016)

keakar said:


> I just need to get the box open and see what can be done to max out what the board can handle for the memory



It's DDR2, so you're looking at 8GB.

https://www.dell.com/downloads/glob...sktop-optiplex-960-technical-guidebook-en.pdf


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## Azumay (Feb 16, 2016)

Your e8400 is 65w TDP rated. Q9550 is 95W rated. (Q6600 is 105).
At the very least I would think a bio's update.
Not sure if MB is good or not for upgrade, the way dell sources stuff.
I wouldn't go through all that.
The E8400 single thread performance is on par with the q9550.
Its still a decent machine to do the normal household computing.


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## Norton (Feb 16, 2016)

keakar said:


> one last question guys, I don't think anyone actually addressed my question about compatibility concerns of adding ram to dells, will generic ram work or does it need to be "dell" classified ram?



I've used Kingston "value" ram w/o issues in about a dozen Dell upgrades for friends and family.


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## alucasa (Feb 16, 2016)

I'd say grab the machine and touch nothing. Replacing parts will cause more headache than you deserve.

What does she use a PC for anyway? If it's just web browsing and stuff, the machine you linked is more than adequate.


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## keakar (Feb 16, 2016)

Azumay said:


> Your e8400 is 65w TDP rated. Q9550 is 95W rated. (Q6600 is 105).
> At the very least I would think a bio's update.
> Not sure if MB is good or not for upgrade, the way dell sources stuff.
> I wouldn't go through all that.
> ...



oh, ok, thanks for pointing that out, I guess i'll leave it be then. I don't think the "E" series is too far behind the "Q" series in any noticeable way to the average person on a computer.

the ads I was looking at on ebay turned out to be auctions anyway, ebay can be misleading at times if you don't pay attention, so the "real" selling prices were averaging the $40 range for anything in the Q9000 series

the Q6600 cpu isn't very sought after so it is the only $10 cpu option but if the MB isn't plug and play compatible with it, then I rather leave it be


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## red_stapler (Feb 16, 2016)

Azumay said:


> Your e8400 is 65w TDP rated. Q9550 is 95W rated. (Q6600 is 105).



Good point.  The motherboard is good for it (The 960 shipped with up to a 9650 if you look at that technical guide I linked).  But you'll need the 95W heatsink with the heatpipes.


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## keakar (Feb 16, 2016)

Norton said:


> I've used Kingston "value" ram w/o issues in about a dozen Dell upgrades for friends and family.


thanks, I will look for that ram then, I hate having to send stuff back when it doesn't work.



alucasa said:


> I'd say grab the machine and touch nothing. Replacing parts will cause more headache than you deserve.
> 
> What does she use a PC for anyway? If it's just web browsing and stuff, the machine you linked is more than adequate.



she does movie editing and stuff, Netflix online streaming movies, things I think better ram capacity could help with, but nothing intense and no gaming of course.

im just thinking if I get her to 6gb by adding a 4gb (2x2gb) kit for an extra $15 or 8gb by just replacing all with an 8gb (4x2gb) kit for an extra$30, then she can go another 10 years on that thing.

maybe im off base but I feel todays computers need and use a lot more of ram capacity then they need cpu capacity, but maybe im wrong about that.


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## Static~Charge (Feb 16, 2016)

If you buy one of these older Dell PCs, be sure to remove the CPU heatsink, clean it, and put fresh thermal grease on it. After about 3 years, the grease that Dell uses has dried out and needs to be replaced.

If you get a 960, then this link will come in handy:

http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/product/optiplex-960/drivers

Almost all of the drivers are outdated (you can get newer ones from their respective manufacturers' sites), but this is page where you'll find the last BIOS update for the PC.


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## Frick (Feb 16, 2016)

keakar said:


> well it looks like the Q9300 is the best fit. the Q6600 is basically the same price as the Q9300 so that's out, and after taking a second look, the one Q9550 I saw for $10 is sold already. the rest of the Q9550 are going around $25 each and the Q9650 looks to be going like $35-$40 price range.



Here a q9550 goes for about €50, which is what Sandy Bridge i5's go for.


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## keakar (Feb 16, 2016)

im obviously going to have to find out when I open it, but since it shows it has 3gb ram, and she said it came from dell like that and wasnt upgraded, i would have to assume this 3gb ram is normally done by using two 1gb sticks and then two 512mb sticks of ram in the other two slots?

from the dell OptiPlex 960 mb specs I see, they are all 4 memory slot boards so I am expecting an easy and cheap ram upgrade by adding a $15 ebay used ram 4gb set (2x2gb) to go with the 2gb set (2x1gb) i expect it already has in it to get a total of 6gb after the ram upgrade.

my question in doing this is, what if any, is the better positioning of the sticks? should the larger sticks be first in the order on the board? and if so which are the primary slots? (assuming the ram speeds are the same)


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## Beertintedgoggles (Feb 16, 2016)

By the way, nice buy.  The order shouldn't matter (as in which pair you place them in), but make sure you place them in the correct pairing.  Some enthusiast boards in the past it mattered (and might still on some current ones) but usually only when overclocking.  From the pics I've seen, put the 2x2GB sticks in the same colored slots (there is a set with white locking tabs and a pair with black locking tabs).  Hopefully Dell wasn't too brain dead and they had the pairs installed correctly before so just replace the 2x512's with the 2x2GBs and you're all set.  If not, 2x1's in the white and 2x2's in the black if you need someone to make the decision.

Not to insult your knowledge but remember, you'll need 64-bit OS to use 6GB of RAM.  Find out what version is being used (ie. Home Premium, Pro, etc.) and if it isn't 64-bit then download the ISO and burn yourself an install disc.  Not terribly hard to do but a little time consuming.


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## red_stapler (Feb 16, 2016)

keakar said:


> im obviously going to have to find out when I open it, but since it shows it has 3gb ram, and she said it came from dell like that and wasnt upgraded, i would have to assume this 3gb ram is normally done by using two 1gb sticks and then two 512mb sticks of ram in the other two slots?



The build sheet for that service tag shows 1x2GB, so somebody stuck extra ram in there at some point.  I'm guessing they didn't buy it from Dell new, considering it also shipped with an asset tag, customized BIOS settings, and a corporate image.

311-7443 : 2.0GB,Non-ECC,800MHz DDR2 1x2GB,OptiPlex
*Part Number*
*Quantity*
*Description*
YG410
1
Dual In-Line Memory Module 2G, 800M, 256X64, 8, 240, 2RX8​


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## keakar (Feb 16, 2016)

Beertintedgoggles said:


> By the way, nice buy.  The order shouldn't matter (as in which pair you place them in), but make sure you place them in the correct pairing.  Some enthusiast boards in the past it mattered (and might still on some current ones) but usually only when overclocking.  From the pics I've seen, put the 2x2GB sticks in the same colored slots (there is a set with white locking tabs and a pair with black locking tabs).  Hopefully Dell wasn't too brain dead and they had the pairs installed correctly before so just replace the 2x512's with the 2x2GBs and you're all set.  If not, 2x1's in the white and 2x2's in the black if you need someone to make the decision.
> 
> Not to insult your knowledge but remember, you'll need 64-bit OS to use 6GB of RAM.  Find out what version is being used (ie. Home Premium, Pro, etc.) and if it isn't 64-bit then download the ISO and burn yourself an install disc.  Not terribly hard to do but a little time consuming.



thanks, I was blown away to see that and it was on auction starting price $1 lol, so I negotiated a selling price rather then wait a week to be outbid at last second. I still had to pay shipping so it was $37 total but that's still an amazing deal for the whole package ready to go.

"if you need someone to make the decision" lol well, it never hurts to be able to blame someone else when something goes wrong. not really sure how much it truly matters anyway other then maybe a "slight" difference in speed but if I do something I want it done the right way. I recall back when I built a few computers in the 2000-2010 years the mb always said it was important the larger ram went into certain matching slots because of the way the ram was accessed but that's likely due to the old tech of the day.

the computer has 32 bit win 7 pro on it now, as can be seen in the pictures on ebay, but someone said the same COA works for either 32 or 64 so i'll use my 64 bit win 7 home premium cd to install and use that 32 bit key for it, assuming that was correct that it works for both and assuming there wont be some conflict going to a win 7 home premium from a win 7 pro version.

I would not be too quick to give dell credit for anything, especially for not being brain dead, seams everything about their setups defies logic.


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## keakar (Feb 16, 2016)

red_stapler said:


> The build sheet for that service tag shows 1x2GB, so somebody stuck extra ram in there at some point.  I'm guessing they didn't buy it from Dell new, considering it also shipped with an asset tag, customized BIOS settings, and a corporate image.
> 
> 311-7443 : 2.0GB,Non-ECC,800MHz DDR2 1x2GB,OptiPlex
> *Part Number*
> ...



since its a 32 OS, im now wondering if it might have a second matching 2gb ram stick in it and its only reading 3gb because of the 32 bit? lots of people fell into that trap adding ram to 32 bit systems.

it also shows a 250gb hard drive yet the ad says its now got a 160gb so not sure if the info from dell is wrong or they swapped  it out at some point and added extra ram at that time? seams odd for a hard drive to crap out after just a few years but it happens.

I will try to get some extra info on this system if I can get them to return a message. as with most ebay sellers, they often don't reply to buyers after the sale.


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## Static~Charge (Feb 16, 2016)

keakar said:


> since its a 32 OS, im now wondering if it might have a second matching 2gb ram stick in it and its only reading 3gb because of the 32 bit? lots of people fell into that trap adding ram to 32 bit systems.



I don't think that's the case here. If the computer has 4GB of memory, no add-on video card, and a 32-bit version of Windows, then System would show something like 3.7GB of total RAM (the rest being reserved for the on-board video).



keakar said:


> it also shows a 250gb hard drive yet the ad says its now got a 160gb so not sure if the info from dell is wrong or they swapped it out at some point and added extra ram at that time? seams odd for a hard drive to crap out after just a few years but it happens.



Dell shows the system specs as they were when the computer shipped out from the factory. Someone replaced the hard drive down the road. No telling if the original drive died or they pulled it for use in another machine.


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## Frick (Feb 16, 2016)

keakar said:


> there wont be some conflict going to a win 7 home premium from a win 7 pro version.



There will be. You'll need the correct media, but you can create media using whatever version you have.


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## Static~Charge (Feb 16, 2016)

Frick said:


> There will be. You'll need the correct media, but you can create media using whatever version you have.



The OptiPlex 960 is from Dell's business product line. It is very unlikely to have a license key for Windows Home, more like Professional or Enterprise.

Also, Dell usually embeds the license key in the BIOS. You probably won't be asked for the key during installation (at least, I never was when I installed Windows using Dell media).


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## keakar (Feb 16, 2016)

Static~Charge said:


> The OptiPlex 960 is from Dell's business product line. It is very unlikely to have a license key for Windows Home, more like Professional or Enterprise.
> 
> Also, Dell usually embeds the license key in the BIOS. You probably won't be asked for the key during installation (at least, I never was when I installed Windows using Dell media).


well the situation is, nothing comes with this computer, just the box and hardware in it and whatever software is pre-installed, so my intention will be using an oem MS hollogram version install disk of win 7 home premium 64 bit that I bought for my computer and hoping the key on the new computer works for it.

please confirm if this will work or if I wont even need a key to switch OS to 64 bit


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## Static~Charge (Feb 16, 2016)

The license key is specific to the Windows 7 product edition: Home Basic, Home Premium, Professional, Enterprise, or Ultimate. If Win 7 is already installed, you can use a license key extraction program to dig up the key that is currently in use. You can use that key to reinstall that edition of Windows; whether it's 32-bit or 64-bit doesn't matter.

Here's another handy link for a new OptiPlex 960 owner:

Manuals and documentation
http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/product/optiplex-960/manuals​
And here's my installation checklist for an OptiPlex 960:

BIOS update A18

Windows 7 Professional x64 with Service Pack 1

Dell System Software 7.0.1

Microsoft .NET Framework 4.6.1

Intel Chipset Device Software 9.4.0.1027

Intel Rapid Storage Technology 9.6.0.1014

DirectX 9.29.1962 - June 2010

Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 8.15.10.2869

Analog Devices 198x 6.10.2.7250

Intel PRO Ethernet 20.4.1

Intel AMT SOL/LMS 5.2.40.1037
Intel AMT HECI 5.2.10.1023

Internet Explorer 11

Windows Update (multiple times, until all updates are installed)***​
Because of the age of this system, almost all of these drivers can be found on Dell's support page for the 960, with the following exceptions:

Ethernet -- from Intel
.NET Framework, DirectX, and Internet Explorer -- from Microsoft​
By installing all of these drivers, you'll eliminate any warnings in Device Manager.

*** If you want to stick with Windows 7, keep a close eye on the Windows updates. If you aren't careful, Microsoft will slip in a Windows 10 upgrade behind your back. GWX Control Panel provides an easy way to prevent this from happening without your approval.


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## keakar (Feb 16, 2016)

ok got it, win 7 home premium 64 bit cant be installed so I need a win 7 pro 64 bit install disk to upgrade the OS to 64 bit

and thanks for that install list info, that will help a lot.


also I finally got a message back from seller, it turns out they are a computer upgrade shop and just repair old outdated computers to resell after upgrading them with used pulled parts removed from other computers being upgraded or salvaged parts from old computers not worth fixing. so of course they cant tell me why the hard drive and ram is different from factory setup.

not a big whupity do there but im less thrilled with the deal knowing it comes from a repair shop recycler of old parts so to speak rather then just some individual selling it.


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## Jetster (Feb 16, 2016)

I didn't think you could upgrade a OEM 32 bit to 64


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## keakar (Feb 16, 2016)

Static~Charge said:


> The license key is specific to the Windows 7 product edition: Home Basic, Home Premium, Professional, Enterprise, or Ultimate. If Win 7 is already installed, you can use a license key extraction program to dig up the key that is currently in use. You can use that key to reinstall that edition of Windows; whether it's 32-bit or 64-bit doesn't matter.
> 
> Here's another handy link for a new OptiPlex 960 owner:
> 
> ...


what is the bios update procedure? last time I did one I think it was on floppy disk lol


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## stinger608 (Feb 16, 2016)

keakar said:


> less thrilled with the deal knowing it comes from a repair shop recycler of old parts so to speak rather then just some individual selling it.




I don't know, many small "ma and pa" type shops doing this and then reselling do a pretty decent job of upgrading though. Years ago I did that myself on Fleabay and always tested all parts going into the systems to avoid any bad evaluations.


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## keakar (Feb 16, 2016)

Jetster said:


> I didn't think you could upgrade a OEM 32 bit to 64


well upgrade is the wrong word, as static-charge explained above, you can install the 64 bit version using the same key as the 32 bit version so the same key activates either version as long as they are like for like versions


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## red_stapler (Feb 16, 2016)

keakar said:


> what is the bios update procedure? last time I did one I think it was on floppy disk lol



With Optiplexes, you just run the .exe file that you download from Dell and it will reboot the system and flash it.

http://www.dell.com/support/home/us...tails?productCode=optiplex-960&driverId=VJ8NF


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## AlienIsGOD (Feb 16, 2016)

Jetster said:


> I didn't think you could upgrade a OEM 32 bit to 64



yup  i bought a 32 bit disc for the i5 2400 rig and used my friends 64 bit disc and just entered product key and it was good to go  i've done it for a few others that mistakenly bought 32 bit 7 as well


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## keakar (Feb 17, 2016)

red_stapler said:


> With Optiplexes, you just run the .exe file that you download from Dell and it will reboot the system and flash it.
> 
> http://www.dell.com/support/home/us...tails?productCode=optiplex-960&driverId=VJ8NF



thanks, that's so much easier then the old days of booting from floppy and using dos commands to run the installer, at least I think that how i remember it used to work


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## Static~Charge (Feb 17, 2016)

keakar said:


> what is the bios update procedure? last time I did one I think it was on floppy disk lol



I like to use the modern equivalent: a bootable USB flash drive with DOS (or a reasonable facsimile thereof). Here's how to do it without one:


Go into BIOS and make sure "SATA Operation" is set to "AHCI".

Install Windows 7 on the hard drive.
Download the BIOS update and copy it to a flash drive (on another PC; the 960's Ethernet controller may not be operational yet).

Copy the BIOS update from the flash drive to the 960's desktop.
Run the BIOS update program.

After the update has finished, Windows will restart. Go into BIOS again, verify that the settings are how you want them, and save & exit. Let Windows boot up normally, then finish installation checklist.


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## keakar (Feb 17, 2016)

is there a place to get a "safe" and "uncluttered" (just the OS only and nothing else included) version of win 7 pro as a free download? or can you buy it somewhere for $10-$20 and not have to pay the $100 plus they charge for the complete OS with key prices

I heard there were legitimate places out there where you can get trusted windows OS downloads but the ones I have found and looked into, i often see reports they contain viruses or don't work right.

my brother had one like that, it was a download disk he got somewhere that was "supposed" to be stripped down versions of win 7 in home and pro in both 32 and 64 bit versions that you install and then use your own key with, but when I tried it on my computer after a reformat (because I wanted to get rid of all the bloatware built into it) things didn't act the same way or as fast as the bloated oem dell version so I reformatted and reinstalled the oem one. I figured whatever they did they took too much out of it and that effected how the OS worked.

since the COA key is the real ownership of the OS so to speak, I would think there is no real issue with just the disk software itself being copied, or is there?


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## stinger608 (Feb 17, 2016)

@keakar , you can go straight to Microsoft for the download:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7

Just put in the key from the system COA sticker and it should allow you to download the ISO image.


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## keakar (Feb 17, 2016)

stinger608 said:


> @keakar , you can go straight to Microsoft for the download:
> 
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows7
> 
> Just put in the key from the system COA sticker and it should allow you to download the ISO image.


ok, I didn't know that, thanks.

I once sent MS tech support that question and was told I had to buy the whole thing.

at that time win 7 was still the new OS so maybe that's why they told me that?

I am really happy I will be able to give her a legitimate reinstall disk to keep with that computer


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## stinger608 (Feb 18, 2016)

Yea, it used to be that Microsoft using Digital River for all their downloads and ya used to be able to download all the ISO's without putting in your key. Then they took all them down from Digital River and now you can go straight through the Microsoft site.


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## keakar (Feb 18, 2016)

computer arrived today

man that thing is small, its only 12x12x3  

next to my mid tower its just a baby, without the drive bays I could fit 8 of em inside my mid tower and still put the side cover back on it lol



stinger608 said:


> Yea, it used to be that Microsoft using Digital River for all their downloads and ya used to be able to download all the ISO's without putting in your key. Then they took all them down from Digital River and now you can go straight through the Microsoft site.



before i try the number I wanted to ask you, will they let me choose or ask me which version (32 or 64 bit) I have? im afraid if it goes by the COA number then i'll just get another 32 bit ISO download, which would still be "something" but not what I wanted.

its also just 2 sticks of ram, a 2gb and a 1gb stick, trouble with reusing them is they are pc2-5300u instead of the pc2-6400u its supposed to have come with so I think i'll buy a second set of that ram and use the 5300 to put in her older OptiPlex, the 745 version. that one came with 5300 and could use some more ram since it only has 2gb.

I "think" what this company does, is take all the "good" stuff they can sell and "downgrades" things like ram and hard drives before selling them so they can sell the removed parts which are more desirable. I see no other reason the ram was completely replaced with slower ram and the HDD was replaced with a smaller, older, and slower cache HDD. its still a great deal at the price I paid for it and is great for an office computer. I guess they figured its a office work computer so nobody cares about the specs.

took a little fiddling to figure out how to get the dvd drive out to even get to the ram. you got any tips to be careful about to take the cpu cooler out and off so I can redo the thermal paste?


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## red_stapler (Feb 18, 2016)

keakar said:


> im afraid if it goes by the COA number



My guess is, they'll refer you back to Dell for the media.  If you want Win 7 x64, the Dell part number to track down is KJX6D.



keakar said:


> you got any tips to be careful about to take the cpu cooler out and off so I can redo the thermal paste?



I'd refer you to the factory service manual:
http://downloads.dell.com/Manuals/a...desktop/optiplex-960_Service Manual_en-us.pdf


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## keakar (Feb 18, 2016)

thanks, yes that is what happened, it said it was preinstalled software by manufacturer so call dell.

now what do I do? will dell give me a 64 bit reinstall download for it and will it be an issue trying to switch to a 64 bit?

I also have drive upgrade concerns now. I was planning to add a second hard drive to increase storage but I never realized it could only hold one hard drive.

do you think there would be any negative side effects if I use the "3.5-inch drive bay for optional slimline floppy drive or slimline media card reader" bay to hold the second hard drive? it sounds like you work on dells a lot so have you ever done this?


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## taz420nj (Feb 18, 2016)

I have all the clean (Windows Retail, not Dell images) ISOs and if you want I can upload it to my dropbox for you. It will activate using your key.

And whoever said Dell puts the key in the BIOS, that's only for 8/8.1/10.  With 7 it's only on the COA.  Not only that but if it has the Dell image on it, the key you dig out of it will be the Dell master SLP key - which can not be used to activate a clean install.


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## keakar (Feb 18, 2016)

taz420nj said:


> I have all the clean (Windows Retail, not Dell images) ISOs and if you want I can upload it to my dropbox for you. It will activate using your key.
> 
> And whoever said Dell puts the key in the BIOS, that's only for 8/8.1/10.  With 7 it's only on the COA.  Not only that but if it has the Dell image on it, the key you dig out of it will be the Dell master SLP key - which can not be used to activate a clean install.


yes please do because im finding nothing anywhere but dead links to Digital River servers that no longer exist

looking for win 7 pro 64 bit and thank you so very much for the help, was thinking I had to go buy another OS at this point


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## taz420nj (Feb 18, 2016)

keakar said:


> yes please do because im finding nothing anywhere but dead links to Digital River servers that no longer exist
> 
> looking for win 7 pro 64 bit and thank you so very much for the help, was thinking I had to go buy another OS at this point


K give me a little bit then ill pm you the link.

Also, since you want to do a clean install, here's a tip..  Buy a 16GB flash drive. Once you have 7 installed and activated, all the drivers,  all the programs, and all the updates installed (it will take hours and several restarts, plus you'll have to run update several times to get everything), but before you put any personal stuff like pics,vids, movies on it,  download a program called Macrium Reflect (it's free), and have it create rescue media on that flash stick - then image the drive and save the image to the same stick.  The stick will be bootable, and will allow you to restore the computer without having to reinstall all the updates/drivers/programs every time.


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## keakar (Feb 18, 2016)

taz420nj said:


> K give me a little bit then ill pm you the link.
> 
> Also, since you want to do a clean install, here's a tip..  Buy a 16GB flash drive. Once you have 7 installed and activated, all the drivers,  all the programs, and all the updates installed (it will take hours and several restarts, plus you'll have to run update several times to get everything), but before you put any personal stuff like pics,vids, movies on it,  download a program called Macrium Reflect (it's free), and have it create rescue media on that flash stick - then image the drive and save the image to the same stick.  The stick will be bootable, and will allow you to restore the computer without having to reinstall all the updates/drivers/programs every time.


thanks, great info


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## taz420nj (Feb 18, 2016)

This ISO is what's called an "All in one".  It is a clean ISO direct from Digital River, but it has a single file deleted from it.  This file is what identifies the version.  Since all Windows 7 discs have all versions on them anyway (to allow instant upgrade), what will happen is you will get a menu at the beginning of setup asking which version you want to install.  You MUST select the version that matches your key (Pro) or it will fail activation and you'll have to start over.


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## red_stapler (Feb 18, 2016)

keakar said:


> now what do I do?   will dell give me a 64 bit reinstall download for it



No, unfortunately Dell doesn't have a downloadable OEM media.  Since the system is out of warranty, you'd be on the hook for the $10 that the disc costs.



keakar said:


> do you think there would be any negative side effects if I use the "3.5-inch drive bay for optional slimline floppy drive or slimline media card reader" bay to hold the second hard drive?



That should be fine, the challenging part would be providing power to the drive, since the power supply only has a single SATA connector.  Dell did offer a drive caddy that would fit 2x notebook sized hard drives in place of the single 3.5", I'd imagine that wouldn't be terribly easy to track down though.



keakar said:


> it sounds like you work on dells a lot



You could say that.  I was a Dell employee working in tech support on Optiplex and Latitude for 9 years.


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## taz420nj (Feb 18, 2016)

red_stapler said:


> That should be fine, the challenging part would be providing power to the drive, since the power supply only has a single SATA connector.  Dell did offer a drive caddy that would fit 2x notebook sized hard drives in place of the single 3.5", I'd imagine that wouldn't be terribly easy to track down though.



Since it has 3 SATA ports on the motherboard I'd think it has a spare power connector..  But if not its not a challenge at all, just need one of these:


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## red_stapler (Feb 18, 2016)

taz420nj said:


> Since it has 3 SATA ports on the motherboard I'd think it has a spare power connector..



They don't:






If you go with the Y cable, you'll need one with a right angle SATA connector or it won't clear the heatsink.


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## taz420nj (Feb 18, 2016)

Huh. Couldnt find a definitive pic before but I guess that settles that lol!  Yet another reason to hate SFF machines...


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## taz420nj (Feb 18, 2016)

@keakar Its gonna take another half hour or so to finish uploading but I have to leave now, so I'll get you that link tonight when I get home.


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## keakar (Feb 18, 2016)

ok thanks taz

I bought a 320gb HDD drive for it and planed to use both it and the existing 160gb HDD together but the idea of putting one in the unused front bay wont work, it only has enough room there for a short 3" long floppy drive or card reader and that's it so thats out.

for a moment, I was thinking of trying to marry the drives by mounting one directly to the other like a sandwich with no space between using the middle mounting holes to join them and then it hangs from the mounting pins in the one main drive. this looks like it might work and barely have the room to fit but it will be real real tight on not touching things and mashing on the sata board plug wires too much not to mention the pins might break off witgh the extra weight on them and on top of that, im not sure if this will create any cooling issues and thinking it might.

I'm nixing the whole idea of 2 drive setup and just going with the single 320gb, because I really wasn't expecting or prepared for such limited space issues and jerry rigging anything is not something I am comfortable doing on someone elses stuff and I really don't want to ever see this computer again, so im not wanting to leave it with any doubts about changes I make.

her 745 is a bigger sff then this 960, I think its the not so small form factor (medium sized) so maybe that one fits 2 drives and I can put the 160gb drive in that one. that's where im putting the slower speed 3gb ram that came out of this one.


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## red_stapler (Feb 18, 2016)

As you've found out, dual 3.5" drives is not an option.  But just because, I was able to track down the dual 2.5" drive setup.  The drive caddy is R494D, and the SATA Y adapter is N701D.


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## stinger608 (Feb 18, 2016)

Now @red_stapler , if I am not mistaken don't you have to use the Windows 7 Pro 64 VL (volume license) in order for it to activate on Dell's? 

Or will the retail version also activate okay?


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## keakar (Feb 18, 2016)

got the thermal paste replaced, damn good thing I did, that stuff was like dry clay

had I known 2 drives aren't possible before, I might have gotten a 500gb regular drive though instead  of buying the 320gb.

the 320 is likely more then she ever needs anyway, i just felt that 160gb was a joke in todays data storage world.

people are just so spoiled with having 16gb or 32gb of ram and 1TB and 2 TB drives today, seeing the specs on this computer is like its empty and has nothing.

personally I cant see any real need for more then 500GB for the "average" user and try to at least always have close to that capacity


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## keakar (Feb 18, 2016)

stinger608 said:


> Now @red_stapler , if I am not mistaken don't you have to use the Windows 7 Pro 64 VL (volume license) in order for it to activate on Dell's?
> 
> Or will the retail version also activate okay?


good question

I "think" MS retail version OS installs on anything you want, but the question would be is the dell COA key I have going to be accepted to validate it or reject it as being a different type category of key being a dell? sort of how it rejects a key if its the wrong windows version of home, premium, or pro?

that's my fear


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## red_stapler (Feb 18, 2016)

stinger608 said:


> Now @red_stapler , if I am not mistaken don't you have to use the Windows 7 Pro 64 VL (volume license) in order for it to activate on Dell's?
> 
> Or will the retail version also activate okay?



When using retail media you have to enter the key, as it won't do OEM activation.  Other than that it *should* work just fine.


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## keakar (Feb 18, 2016)

red_stapler said:


> When using retail media you have to enter the key, as it won't do OEM activation.  Other than that it *should* work just fine.


ok so just to confirm, the COA key on the dell computer is a MS key and so it isn't going to cause any problems being recognized as a dell only version software key and it will be accepted for activating any retail version OS install?

the hard drive and ram wont be here until Monday or Tuesday so I wont be able to try this until then.


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## keakar (Feb 18, 2016)

hey guys, I just came across this install dvd for every version of win 7 on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WINDOWS-7-U...515928?hash=item419ee276d8:g:HREAAOSwT5tWOA1P

please take a look and see what you think and let me know if you think its legit


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## stinger608 (Feb 19, 2016)

That would probably be fine @keakar , but why not just wait and download the one that @taz420nj is uploading to his dropbox?


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## keakar (Feb 19, 2016)

stinger608 said:


> That would probably be fine @keakar , but why not just wait and download the one that @taz420nj is uploading to his dropbox?


I was just asking if anyone knew anything about this other thing.

turns out from what i have been able to figure out about it is, the drivers are on a separate disk and its a very stripped down basic beta versions of windows and not the full featured regular retail versions of windows. at least that is what im under the impression it is.


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## taz420nj (Feb 19, 2016)

keakar said:


> good question
> 
> I "think" MS retail version OS installs on anything you want, but the question would be is the dell COA key I have going to be accepted to validate it or reject it as being a different type category of key being a dell? sort of how it rejects a key if its the wrong windows version of home, premium, or pro?
> 
> that's my fear



Windows license keys have not had separate OEM/Retail install media versions since XP.  From Vista on, the key itself tells Windows what version to activate, and whether it is OEM (which permanently locks to the first system it is activated on) or Retail (transferable to another machine after deactivation). All versions are included on every disc (for the Anytime Upgrade system).  So if you have an honest seller, you should have no issues with the key on the COA.

The only issue you'd run into with the key is if the ebay seller sold it separately to someone else.  It's not an uncommon phenomenon, because on the VAST majority of OEM computers, the key on the sticker is virgin and can be used on ANY machine.  This is because when the machine comes out of the factory, it is activated using a special "Manufacturer Master Key" that is unique to each major OEM (Dell, HP, etc).  This type of activation looks for a special piece of code in the BIOS (called the SLIC) to validate the installation as running on that brand's motherboard.  This is called "System-Locked Preactivation" (SLP).  If you were to take the hard drive with Windows out of a Dell machine and install it into an HP with identical hardware, it will detect the SLIC change and switch to "Non-genuine" mode.  This Manufacturer Master Key is the same on every machine that comes out of that manufacturer's factory for any given version of Windows.  This is also the reason you can't dig the key out of the registry using a Keyfinder utility - unless it has been clean-installed previously, the key it gives you will be the MMK, which an end user can not use to activate Windows.  The MMK is only valid when a factory restore image has been deployed on the proper hardware.

Each machine that has been preactivated via SLP comes with an OEM COA sticker with a unique key.  That key is UNUSED until an end user enters it when performing a clean install - once that happens the key is permanently locked to that system and can not be used on or transferred to another system.  Since most people use the factory restore image, many many many of those keys never get used - and sellers use that as an opportunity to double dip.  They sell the system with the preinstalled image to one buyer, and then they sell a picture of the license key to another for more money.  Usually the system buyer never notices, because they just use the factory image. If either buyer does find out, it's usually way too late for any recourse.  Now if you do run into that issue, there is a way around it but it can't be discussed in the open.  I will help you if you need it.


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## stinger608 (Feb 19, 2016)

You mean the one that @taz420nj uploaded?

If that is what your saying, not at all! He has the multi version ISO disk uploaded. It is not a "basic beta" version at all man!!!

there is a simple script that you can execute that takes the lock out of any of the basic, home premium, pro or ultimate ISO which makes it the multi version ISO.

I personally use that type of disk myself and have for some time now when installing Windows 7.


EDIT: LOL I see @taz420nj beat me to this only explained it much better.


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## taz420nj (Feb 19, 2016)

stinger608 said:


> You mean the one that @taz420nj uploaded?
> 
> If that is what your saying, not at all! He has the multi version ISO disk uploaded. It is not a "basic beta" version at all man!!!
> 
> ...


No, hes talking about the one he found on ebay..  He PM'd me asking about it.


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## taz420nj (Feb 19, 2016)

stinger608 said:


> Now @red_stapler , if I am not mistaken don't you have to use the Windows 7 Pro 64 VL (volume license) in order for it to activate on Dell's?
> 
> Or will the retail version also activate okay?



I just saw this.. A VL is different from an SLP.  The SLP is whats in the factory image.  A VL is issued to businesses/schools/organizations/etc that have many computers.  Those are the keys that generally stolen and show up on pirate copies, but it isn't long before they are blacklisted by Microsoft (which causes hell for the IT guys at the business/whatever who owns that particular VL).


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## Retrorockit (Feb 19, 2016)

I'm late to the party here. I usually go to crucial.com to check memory capacity on Dells. It's very common for Dell to list capacity based on modules they offer and tested. It's not unusual to find capacity listed as 50% of actual. Crucial gets capacity right. Dells don't let you change latency settings, and some older ones can't use newer high density RAM (chips on 1 side of module). Crucial guarantees their kits, or I buy Dell Certified RAM, but not from Dell. I'm glad you grabbed another computer instead of trying a motherboard swap, there are a lot of ways to go wrong there with a Dell. They also don't always update their CPU support lists. The 745 you started with wasn't one of the better machine to upgrade. I have one I might throw an X6800 in for fun but it wont be a serious effort. The VRM looks weak, 3 phase, and only 2 MOSFETs per phase. Being a P4 era machine it might support surprisingly fast speeds on a Core2Duo. FWIW I'm running Win7 64 bit in my old Dell.
Bought a disc from Software Empire, it took 2 tries on the  validation number, but no problems running it at all. If you put an SSD in one make sure you turn off Auto Defragmentation in System Tools.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 19, 2016)

Tomshardware used to be the worst place in the world to ask about Dell, or BTX computers. "Get an ATX" PROBLEM SOLVED was about as useful as it got. But lately myself and some others have been trying to change that. Questions about various Dell models now get answered correctly for the most part. I posted a tutorial "Overclocking Dell BTX Computers". It's actually become a useful resource for upgrading various Dell models. The trolls still show up every now and then. But they don't have much of an answer for the 3.99GHz. validation for a 9 year  old Dell in my Sig.


----------



## Static~Charge (Feb 19, 2016)

taz420nj said:


> And whoever said Dell puts the key in the BIOS, that's only for 8/8.1/10.  With 7 it's only on the COA.  Not only that but if it has the Dell image on it, the key you dig out of it will be the Dell master SLP key - which can not be used to activate a clean install.



I have installed Windows 7 from scratch on blank hard drives on multiple Dell OptiPlex 780's, 790's, and 7010's that shipped from the factory with Win 7 COA stickers. Not once was I asked to enter the license key from the COA. If the key wasn't embedded into the BIOS, then how did the Windows installer determine that a valid license was present?



keakar said:


> turns out from what i have been able to figure out about it is, the drivers are on a separate disk and its a very stripped down basic beta versions of windows and not the full featured regular retail versions of windows. at least that is what im under the impression it is.



If you use Dell's Windows 7 reinstallation media, it will contain the drivers necessary to activate the OptiPlex's various components. My installation checklist assumes that you're using a retail copy of Windows 7, so I listed all of the drivers needed by the 960.


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## taz420nj (Feb 19, 2016)

Static~Charge said:


> I have installed Windows 7 from scratch on blank hard drives on multiple Dell OptiPlex 780's, 790's, and 7010's that shipped from the factory with Win 7 COA stickers. Not once was I asked to enter the license key from the COA. If the key wasn't embedded into the BIOS, then how did the Windows installer determine that a valid license was present?



Then you used either a pirated copy or a disc that  was modified to contain the Dell SLP key/certificate.  There is no mechanism in Windows 7 RTM for auto-activating on an OEM machine.  SLIC 3.0 is what embeds a unique product key into the BIOS, and Windows 7 is incapable of utilizing it.. That started with Windows 8.



> If you use Dell's Windows 7 reinstallation media, it will contain the drivers necessary to activate the OptiPlex's various components. My installation checklist assumes that you're using a retail copy of Windows 7, so I listed all of the drivers needed by the 960.



And if you use Dell reinstallation media, you also get the 21,269 pieces of bloatware/garbage that Dell preinstalls for you.  He doesn't want that.


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## Static~Charge (Feb 19, 2016)

taz420nj said:


> Then you used either a pirated copy or a disc that  was modified to contain the Dell SLP key/certificate.  There is no mechanism in Windows 7 RTM for auto-activating on an OEM machine.  SLIC 3.0 is what embeds a unique product key into the BIOS, and Windows 7 is incapable of utilizing it.. That started with Windows 8.



I did use a Dell Windows 7 reinstallation disc; it was the only media that I had at the time. That explains the instant validation of the o.s.



taz420nj said:


> And if you use Dell reinstallation media, you also get the 21,269 pieces of bloatware/garbage that Dell preinstalls for you. He doesn't want that.



No bloatware on my reinstallation media. It came with an OptiPlex machine, part of Dell's business line. The business machines aren't loaded with crapware, just the retail machines.


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## keakar (Feb 19, 2016)

Static~Charge said:


> No bloatware on my reinstallation media. It came with an OptiPlex machine, part of Dell's business line. The business machines aren't loaded with crapware, just the retail machines.


that's great info for anyone looking to buy a dell oem version of windows, I used to use those all the time to save money when building systems because it was like half the price of retail versions. had I known to just look for business versions to avoid the bloatware, I would have but back in the win xp days when the bloatware wasn't anywhere near as bad as today is.


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## keakar (Feb 19, 2016)

well I am going have to end up transferring this MB, RAM, & CPU combo over to a bigger case because she is going to need a dvd burner which cant be installed in this little box. but it should go smoothly since the MB looks like standard micro atx size so im hoping it will fit in any dell case.

im hoping it fits the 745 case which is the one size larger sized bod but has normal sized dvd burner. (the 960 is USFF and the 745 is the SFF)

if all else fails and it wont work, she will just have to get an external dvd burner for it or live without one


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## Retrorockit (Feb 19, 2016)

If you're going to try it anyway. Dell changed the pinout to the front I/O panel between Opt.760 and OPT.780, added ambient termp. sensor. BIOS looks for it. The rear I/O area is usually unique to each motherboard, so expect to cut it out to fit. Dell uses metal tabs under the MB to support all the expansion and memory sockets. If the sockets are in a different place the tabs will be under bare terminals on the MB. On USFF bolts get moved , expansion slots begin one slot over. The moved bolt hole will leave a metal boss under bare terminals ( the 745 should have a bolt in the RH rear corner, the 960 has sound outputs there). The tabs you can fold down, the boss is built into the case. USFF uses smaller PSU power connector, not sure if SFF does. There are converters, but Dell and HP disagree on pinouts there. There are probably other things I don't know about because I decided not to try it. Dells are so easy to find, I'd suggest get one that has what you need.


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## keakar (Feb 20, 2016)

Retrorockit said:


> If you're going to try it anyway. Dell changed the pinout to the front I/O panel between Opt.760 and OPT.780, added ambient termp. sensor. BIOS looks for it. The rear I/O area is usually unique to each motherboard, so expect to cut it out to fit. Dell uses metal tabs under the MB to support all the expansion and memory sockets. If the sockets are in a different place the tabs will be under bare terminals on the MB. On USFF bolts get moved , expansion slots begin one slot over. The moved bolt hole will leave a metal boss under bare terminals ( the 745 should have a bolt in the RH rear corner, the 960 has sound outputs there). The tabs you can fold down, the boss is built into the case. USFF uses smaller PSU power connector, not sure if SFF does. There are converters, but Dell and HP disagree on pinouts there. There are probably other things I don't know about because I decided not to try it. Dells are so easy to find, I'd suggest get one that has what you need.


well the rest stays with the case its in, HDD, fans, media drives, psu,  all im going to "try" to swap is the motherboard/cpu and if it doesn't fit, that's the end of it.

im not going to be hacking and whacking on things, as I said above, "if all else fails and it wont work, she will just have to get an external dvd burner for it or live without one"


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## red_stapler (Feb 20, 2016)

The slim DVDRW drives are pretty cheap:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optipl...755870?hash=item4af7ba365e:g:740AAOSwKtlWoSQS


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## keakar (Feb 20, 2016)

red_stapler said:


> The slim DVDRW drives are pretty cheap:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optipl...755870?hash=item4af7ba365e:g:740AAOSwKtlWoSQS


no I actually did NOT know that 

I  assumed the USFF only had the slim dvd reader and no option was there for a burner than small?

i just assumed they didnt have enough room inside the thing for one with all the writing equipt in it, because the things gotta be only 3/8" thick?????????????

now that i know they make read write drives to fit that thing, its time to go searching ebay lol


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## taz420nj (Feb 20, 2016)

keakar said:


> no I actually did NOT know that
> 
> I  assumed the USFF only had the slim dvd reader and no option was there for a burner than small?
> 
> ...



Yup its a standard slim laptop style drive, and they come in every flavor including DVD combo, BluRay combo, BluRay writer, most have one of the laser labeling systems too (Lightscribe or LabelFlash).   You can even get a slot-loader if you want.


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## keakar (Feb 20, 2016)

before i buy it, can you confirm this one fits? mine looks exactly like it but its a rom drive - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toshiba-Sat...352964?hash=item41758260c4:g:atgAAMXQsoNRh92q

or is it safe to say they are all going to fit so just buy any dell thin drive?

all things being equal price wise, what drive is best that I should be looking for?

will any of these $6 ones work?  http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=DVD±RW+SATA+Burner&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xdell+DVD±RW+SATA+Burner.TRS0&_nkw=dell+DVD±RW+SATA+Burner&_sacat=0

can you give me a generic Toshiba part number to be sure im looking at the right size drives? I "think" Toshiba TS-L633 is the oem brand and part number but im trusting things written on ebay


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## red_stapler (Feb 20, 2016)

keakar said:


> before i buy it, can you confirm this one fits? mine looks exactly like it but its a rom drive - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toshiba-Sat...352964?hash=item41758260c4:g:atgAAMXQsoNRh92q
> 
> or is it safe to say they are all going to fit so just buy any dell thin drive?



That would work.  Keep in mind you'll need to swap the various brackets from your old drive if you don't go with an optiplex drive.


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## keakar (Feb 20, 2016)

red_stapler said:


> That would work.  Keep in mind you'll need to swap the various brackets from your old drive if you don't go with an optiplex drive.


but its going into an OptiPlex box, its for that OptiPlex 960 SFF I got, it came with just a dvd rom so I want to put a burner in it.


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## taz420nj (Feb 20, 2016)

There's only one 'bracket' - same as in a laptop.  It's just that little right angle retainer screwed to the back of the drive to keep it from sliding out of the slot.  the only other thing you'll have to swap is the face bezel, unless the new one comes with a thin/flat generic one.


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## keakar (Feb 20, 2016)

red_stapler said:


> That would work.  Keep in mind you'll need to swap the various brackets from your old drive if you don't go with an optiplex drive.


that is what im asking, what non-dell model number matches the OptiPlex oem drives, a cross reference number.

when I look for Toshiba ts-l633 drives the faces are all different, some for note books and desktops with different shaped faceplates.

so your saying the actual shell and core of the drives are all the same, and I can just change the front panels on the drives so any ts-l633 will work? because if it says OptiPlex the thing costs $15 and it says on those drives Toshiba ts-l633, but if i search Toshiba ts-l633 I find them as low as $4


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## taz420nj (Feb 20, 2016)

keakar said:


> that is what im asking, what non-dell model number matches the OptiPlex oem drives, a cross reference number.
> 
> when I look for Toshiba ts-l633 drives the faces are all different, some for note books and desktops with different shaped faceplates.
> 
> so your saying the actual shell and core of the drives are all the same, and I can just change the front panels on the drives so any ts-l633 will work? because if it says OptiPlex the thing costs $15, but if it says Toshiba ts-l633 they are as low as $4



You don't need an Optiplex drive.  Or even a Dell drive. Any one of those in your search will work.  Any brand, any model, as long as it has a SATA interface.  A slimline drive is a slimline drive.  Just like it doesn't matter what floppy or hard drive you put in as long as it has the correct interface.  The bracket and front plastic bezel are interchangeable (2 screws each).   Just beware that they are all used drives..  Some are listed "as-is" which means it's probably broken, so make sure you read the listings carefully.


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## keakar (Feb 20, 2016)

taz420nj said:


> You don't need an Optiplex drive.  Or even a Dell drive. Any one of those in your search will work.  Any brand, any model, as long as it has a SATA interface.  A slimline drive is a slimline drive.  Just like it doesn't matter what floppy or hard drive you put in as long as it has the correct interface.  The bracket and front plastic bezel are interchangeable (2 screws each).   Just beware that they are all used drives..  Some are listed "as-is" which means it's probably broken, so make sure you read the listings carefully.


ok, cool that's what I wasn't sure about.

so all the drives are the same and just brackets are different and may need to be swapped out

this is the one I bought - http://www.ebay.com/itm/151978025532 its a 2011 mfg so it should still last a while


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## taz420nj (Feb 20, 2016)

keakar said:


> ok, cool that's what I wasn't sure about.
> 
> so all the drives are the same and just brackets are different and may need to be swapped out



For the most part even the brackets are the same, they just usually don't come with them.  There's two sets of holes, so you just have to make sure you put the bracket in the right orientation.  The only thing that's pretty much unique to each laptop model that it's installed in is the face plate - but as I said that is two screws and two clips to swap.  The Optiplex uses a standard flat plate, so if you get one with the flat plate you won't even need to swap it.


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## keakar (Feb 20, 2016)

taz420nj said:


> For the most part even the brackets are the same, they just usually don't come with them.  There's two sets of holes, so you just have to make sure you put the bracket in the right orientation.  The only thing that's pretty much unique to each laptop model that it's installed in is the face plate - but as I said that is two screws and two clips to swap.  The Optiplex uses a standard flat plate, so if you get one with the flat plate you won't even need to swap it.


well it was $8 for the flat plate one or $4 for one I had to switch the faceplate on. since all this "extra" is a donation by me, I want to save pennies where I can. very few if any come with the brackets still on them

this thing is starting to get out of hand, don't all upgrades go like that? lol

went from a cheap upgrade for one old system and now its turned into an upgrade for 2 old system using pulled parts from one to upgrade the second   but it will be my good deed for the day I guess.

she paid $38 for the 960 computer and so far I paid $30 for 8gb ram upgrade and another $10 for dvd burner, so now I spent more then she did lol. on top of that im spending another $10 for an E6700 cpu upgrade to the old 745 computer and adding the 3gb of 667 ram pulled out of the 960.

I knew I was going to lose $10-$20 of my own money doing this but I didn't expect to spend $40


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## red_stapler (Feb 20, 2016)

taz420nj said:


> There's only one 'bracket' - same as in a laptop.  It's just that little right angle retainer screwed to the back of the drive to keep it from sliding out of the slot.  the only other thing you'll have to swap is the face bezel, unless the new one comes with a thin/flat generic one.



Not quite.  The Mr Bigg chassis has a proprietary quick release / tool-less bracket that attaches to the drive.






If you need help figuring it out, I'll have a look at mine in Monday when I get back to work.


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## keakar (Feb 20, 2016)

red_stapler said:


> Not quite.  The Mr Bigg chassis has a proprietary quick release / tool-less bracket that attaches to the drive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


this is the bracket I have, exact match 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




and man! them things got some tiny ass micro screws!!!!! gotta be careful to use the right screwdriver on it so they don't get stripped.


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## keakar (Feb 20, 2016)

*talking about the OptiPlex 960 computer,*

tell me again why just keeping the e8400 is a better idea then upgrading to the q9400?

not saying I will, not saying I wont, but I probably will since its like only half an upgrade if I don't at least get a quad in it if it can handle one.

im rethinking keeping the E8400 cpu and figure why not upgrade to the max on everything that is upgradable in this thing since im already underwater in this deal.

if I spend another $21 to buy a Q9400? do I really need a different heat sink for it? at least in my mind I would think the same heak sink is used in all the 960 boards and it would be good for all the possible cpu it can use but maybe im being too simple minded on that?

so if it does need a special heat sink for quads, what is the dell part number for the quad core heat sinks so I can look to see if I can find one of those OptiPlex SFF quad core heat sinks for it too?

on an overall side note on how this whole thread has gone, its not like the money got wasted anywhere, it was all spent for good value gained, and now she has two systems that will be pretty good, even by todays standards


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## red_stapler (Feb 20, 2016)

You could probably get away with the mainstream heat sink and a quad core, but it's gonna run the fans on high a lot more than with the performance heat sink.

This:




Vs this:





Nu003 is the part number for the bare heat sink.


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## OneMoar (Feb 20, 2016)

red_stapler said:


> You could probably get away with the mainstream heat sink and a quad core, but it's gonna run the fans on high a lot more than with the performance heat sink.
> 
> This:
> 
> ...


both of those are awful and I would not use them on a pentium 3 ...


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## Retrorockit (Feb 21, 2016)

I haven't needed that one but usually when I need a Dell heatpipe cooler they're $12-$15. You might see if it can accept a Q9505s, or Q9550s. they're not on most peoples radar,and they only draw 65W. The 9550s has 12mb cache, the 9505s 6mb. 6% difference in performance. If it can run it you might spend a little more on the CPU, and not need to buy a cooler.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 21, 2016)

well I say if she doesnt have the money and you want to help her, Buy her a rig


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## Azumay (Feb 21, 2016)

keakar said:


> tell me again why just keeping the e8400 is a better idea then upgrading to the q9400?



You could have went this way http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-8200-Eli...287800?hash=item2eebf65ff8:g:pDIAAOSwKtVWyRz8


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## keakar (Feb 21, 2016)

Retrorockit said:


> I haven't needed that one but usually when I need a Dell heatpipe cooler they're $12-$15. You might see if it can accept a Q9505s, or Q9550s. they're not on most peoples radar,and they only draw 65W. The 9550s has 12mb cache, the 9505s 6mb. 6% difference in performance. If it can run it you might spend a little more on the CPU, and not need to buy a cooler.


I was looking at the 9550's and yes the board can use it, but they run around $35-$40 average used plus another cooler is needed for it so that's a little bit more then I wanted to spend which is why I was thinking of compromising with the 9400 in the $20-$25 range and hoping I could reuse the existing cooler.


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## keakar (Feb 21, 2016)

red_stapler said:


> You could probably get away with the mainstream heat sink and a quad core, but it's gonna run the fans on high a lot more than with the performance heat sink.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just pulled the heat sink off on the 745 and i was surprised to see that it is a heat pipe cooler, I guess that makes sense since the p4 ran hot as hell but it sure is a tease to see a heat pipe cooler in the computer that cant handle anything but the E6700 that I bought for it.

what a shame they didn't just universally use those style coolers on all the boards. it would have eliminated any cooling concerns when upgrading CPUs.

but I put myself in check on wanting the best CPU it can handle, because this is just going to be a tool computer and she is not gaming or building smart weapons with it so quad core isn't really going to get all that much used anyway.

its going to stay with the core 2 duo E8400, that's going to do everything she needs just fine

I did however drop another $20 to buy a 500gb sata drive to put in it, I originally bought her a 320gb drive for it with the intention to keep the 160gb that was in it but these computers will only allow one hdd to mount so I figured since she had a 160gb external drive already completely filled with 145gb of data so i'll put the 320 in her external drive to give her more backup storage space. she gave me the external drive so I can save her stuff on it from the other computers but there is only 6gb of space left on it lol.


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## Azumay (Feb 21, 2016)

keakar said:


> but I put myself in check on wanting the best CPU it can handle, because this is just going to be a tool computer and she is not gaming or building smart weapons with it so quad core isn't really going to get all that much used anyway.
> 
> its going to stay with the core 2 duo E8400, that's going to do everything she needs just fine



Wise.

Make sure she has a good virus utility and malware tool.  That's what will slow that machine down(90 processes).


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## Retrorockit (Feb 21, 2016)

Q9550s is singular. It's a 65W version of the 95W Q9550. The lower case "S" is the part# for the 65W version. Q9505s is less desireable so prices can be lower. But you're right it probably won't make much difference for normal use.
The heatpipe cooler from the 745 was used in PentiumD 130W computers. You should save the fan too. It should be 1.3A to 1.6A 120X38 PWM. Don't hook it to an ATX MB header though. It can cause serious damage due to it's current draw. There is a better cooler T9303 that has the heatpipes arranged differently but mounts the same. I'm using it with QX6800 @ 3.72GHz.

BTW I just got a report last night of a Dell T3400 running QX9650 @ 3.99GHz. Prime 95 for 5 hours. This is with one of the old BTX heatpipe coolers. 3 phase VRM motherboard.


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## red_stapler (Feb 21, 2016)

keakar said:


> what a shame they didn't just universally use those style coolers on all the boards. it would have eliminated any cooling concerns when upgrading CPUs



Unfortunately that was right around the recession, and they were looking to cut costs.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 21, 2016)

Dell's are all built to a price , they've always had 2 or 3 tiers of cooling. Optiplex business machines would get aluminum sinks, Dimensions would get copper based sheet metal fin sinks, and only if you ordered a higher clocked P4 (3.4GHz. and up), Pentium D, or Quad core would you get the necessary heatpipe cooler. Interestingly enough the fans are almost always overkill. They typically run at 25-30% pwm.


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## keakar (Feb 21, 2016)

well im pretty much settled with all this so let me ask wth can I do with a OptiPlex gx260 she gave me? the board is already maxed out at 2gb of pc3200 ram (only 2 slots) and as far as I can tell the cpu is maxed out as well with a Pentium 4 3.4ghz in it so the specs are pathetic on this thing. the only thing I can upgrade is from a 120gb ide hdd to a 200gb ide hdd I already have in my closet.

its win xp setup and it all works fine but is this thing have any value at all?

the final specs would be:

*Processor *. . . . . Intel Pentium 4, 2.8 GHz - socket 478 - 533 FSB - 1 Meg cache

*Memory *. . . . . .  2GB 2X1GB PC3200 DDR 400 400Mhz 184-pin Non-ECC
*
Graphics  *. . . . . .  Integrated Intel Extreme graphics* or 4X AGP

*Hard Drive  *. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 120gb ide 2mb cache (which I can swap out to a 200gb ide 2mb cache )

*power supply* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250 Watts power supply

it looks great and is still in great condition but is this thing worth anything at all as a home theater computer or something? or just strip it and sell it piecemeal for replacement parts?

I just hate throwing away perfectly working good stuff. im hoping you guys will tell me its at least worth $50 as a home theater machine maybe,  what do you guys think?

its such a PITA to try and sell parts, boozing and shipping everything just to be making $1 here or $2 there after shipping costs


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## Retrorockit (Feb 21, 2016)

It sounds from the memory setup, and the CPU that it may be 32 bit CPU only. The change happened in the middle of the P4 era. The fastest P4 equals the slowest Core2 Duo. Certainly not worth shipping anywhere. It can probably run some of the 32 bit Linux just fine. I bought a running E520 for $50 which can take a Core2Quad and run at 3.72GHz. so I don't see much value in that one.


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## keakar (Feb 21, 2016)

Retrorockit said:


> It sounds from the memory setup, and the CPU that it may be 32 bit CPU only. The change happened in the middle of the P4 era. The fastest P4 equals the slowest Core2 Duo. Certainly not worth shipping anywhere. It can probably run some of the 32 bit Linux just fine. I bought a running E520 for $50 which can take a Core2Quad and run at 3.72GHz. so I don't see much value in that one.



well I was going to ship it because just the empty case by itself weights 25 lbs, its a heavy sob, so I was planning local pickup selling with craigs list

so you think its best to not mess with it and try to get $5 each for hdd ram and cpu and the rest into the bin then?

the burner i think is 8x and unless im wrong no one today under 30 even knows what a floppy disk looks like lol


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## keakar (Feb 21, 2016)

im trying to decide which one of these to keep for the grand kids, the two boards I am choosing between are:

Dell 62-YVH motherboard (Socket 478, P-4, 400 FSB or 533 FSB only, 512K cache or smaller processors)
and pentium 4 (before prescotts) 2.8 ghz 512kb cache fsb 533 MHz CPU

MSI MS-7184 motherboard (64-bit AMD® Athlon 64 and Athlon 64 FX processor)
and AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2.2GHz Socket 939 CPU

so if they would both be about equal in ability and speed, then which one is more likely to have parts someone may still want to buy out of it like ram and mb? if they are both equally worthless, which is the better one to keep for a simple 90's era game computer?


----------



## taz420nj (Feb 22, 2016)

Your P4 has pretty much no chance of being a HTPC as-is with the on-board graphics. You would need to put a decent AGP video card in to have a fighting change of it being able to handle HD video - and even then it's going to be working HARD.  The AMD 3500 would be an upgrade (about 75% better than the P4), but it's still a slug and would still need a discrete graphics card to do any heavy lifting.


----------



## taz420nj (Feb 22, 2016)

Retrorockit said:


> It sounds from the memory setup, and the CPU that it may be 32 bit CPU only. The change happened in the middle of the P4 era. The fastest P4 equals the slowest Core2 Duo. Certainly not worth shipping anywhere. It can probably run some of the 32 bit Linux just fine. I bought a running E520 for $50 which can take a Core2Quad and run at 3.72GHz. so I don't see much value in that one.



I'm pretty sure the socketed P4's were the 32 bit, and the LGA P4's were the 64 bit.  But since XP64 drivers for devices were usually hard to come by, they usually had 32 bit XP regardless of the CPU generation.


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## keakar (Feb 22, 2016)

taz420nj said:


> Your P4 has pretty much no chance of being a HTPC as-is with the on-board graphics. You would need to put a decent AGP video card in to have a fighting change of it being able to handle HD video - and even then it's going to be working HARD.  The AMD 3500 would be an upgrade (about 75% better than the P4), but it's still a slug and would still need a discrete graphics card to do any heavy lifting.


ok so both are useless, and yes the dell is a pre-P4 Prescott series era board

so your saying the dell makes the better 90's era kids game box

and the AMD is the better choice to try to sell as a HTPC computer?

I do have a PNY NVIDIA GeForce 9400 GT 512MB DDR2 PCI-E x16 Video Card for it as well that I forgot to mention.


----------



## Retrorockit (Feb 22, 2016)

You might find someone who knows in the Nostalgic Hardware Club. They build old computers and would know the ins and outs of that. Some of the people there are building 486 era stuff. But I think ant 32 bit questions they could answer.


----------



## stinger608 (Feb 22, 2016)

I can tell ya one thing; XP 64 bit was utter garbage. 

Had all kinds of trouble with drivers and what not and nothing at that time really supported 64 bit OS's. Not really until Windows 7 did 64 bit become a norm. Even when Win 7 first came out there were developers scrambling to build supported drivers for 64 bit.


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## keakar (Feb 22, 2016)

ok guys I have 3 computers in the trash bin with only some scrap aluminum heat sinks and antique ram in the "keep" pile lol.

I decided the OptiPlex gx260 gets to be the game box for the kids so I added a 160gb ide drive from one of the other throw away computers to go with the massively huge oem 40gb ide drive it had lol. so its now its at least got 200gb of hdd and the ram was already maxed out at 2gb but when I went to redo the thermal paste on the cpu and I found someone had replaced the original 2.8 ghz with a 2.53 ghz so now I have a question? im thinking swapping from the 2.53 to the biggest size it can handle, 3.06ghz, is going to be well worth $10 cost for it and i "think" it will make a nice improvement, or am I just wishful thinking on that?

the only concern I have is the 3.06ghz sl6pg supports hyperthreading where the older 2.8 and lower ghz cpu don't. I see many comments online saying both work just fine and its a nice upgrade but I am wondering if hyperthreading just doesn't get used when you do this upgrade or if the board makes use of hyperthreading through a bios update ort something?

if it helps any, my board is a dell version 07K585


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## taz420nj (Feb 22, 2016)

The difference between the 2.5GHz and 3.0GHz is like the difference between a Geo Metro and a Yugo.  Either way it's a turd. It'll play really old DOS games fine, maybe Sim City 2000 and some casino/card games, but the onboard graphics wont be anywhere near the requirements of anything within the past 7-8 years.


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## keakar (Feb 22, 2016)

taz420nj said:


> The difference between the 2.5GHz and 3.0GHz is like the difference between a Geo Metro and a Yugo.


so I take it by that you say forget about it as being pointless to upgrade 1/2 a ghz?


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## taz420nj (Feb 22, 2016)

Yeah, there's no improvement whatsoever that you'll notice or that would make any difference as far as a game's system requirements go.  They're both turds.  There's just no meaningful upgrade path.


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## keakar (Feb 22, 2016)

ok, I thought maybe since it was already slow, any improvement would be more noticeable change. i'll start slapping it all back together now, just finished cleaning out the psu and fans.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 23, 2016)

Hyperthreading is usually a setting in the BIOS. Worth about 15% in performance. I would see if you find it useful as is. If so then do the upgrade.


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