# ThrottleStop Setting



## budgetgaming (Oct 6, 2020)

Hai I have HP Omen Laptop 2019 version which has i7 9750H CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, Now normaly when in balance mode in command center the temperature are hitting 86 - 92  degree above while playing COD MV and performance mode is always above 97 degree. 

I decided to use throttlestop but i don't know is my setting is good enough or I can fine tune again in maximum. for all senior in this forum hope you could advice on these setting

Screenshot as follows:




I have attached the log file.


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## unclewebb (Oct 6, 2020)

You do not have to set the core and cache undervolt to the same values. Usually the core can be set significantly higher than the cache. You have your cache set to almost -150 mV. What sort of stability testing have you done? Most 9750H CPUs are not 100% stable with the cache set this high. Make sure you can complete some 1 and 2 Thread TS Bench tests and a full load test without seeing any errors. If you see some errors, you might have to reduce the cache to -140 mV or -130 mV.

Try testing with Cinebench R20. If your CPU is stable with the cache at -149 mV, try setting the core to -175 mV and then to -200 mV. This can help with CPU temperatures. You need to do a variety of stability tests to make sure your CPU is stable. Some successful Cinebench and TS Bench tests with zero errors are the bare minimum.

At the moment your screenshot and log file show that the CPU is reaching the thermal throttling temperature. This is not yet a huge problem. If this problem gets worse, you might have to replace the thermal paste to see if you can reduce your CPU temperatures. 

Intel gave the 9750H a 45W TDP rating. If a laptop manufacturer designs a heatsink around a 45W CPU and then a customer sets the long term turbo power limit to 80W, the CPU is probably going to start thermal throttling. That is what you are seeing. Your heatsink can only dissipate so much heat before the CPU gets too hot and has to thermal throttle to protect against any damage.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 7, 2020)

Thank you for the reply uncle web, the log file that I have attached is when I am playing games on COD MW, without throttlestop and setting performance in Omen Command center would cause the temperature 97 degree even the multiplier is around 30-35mhz. tehsting with TS bench I found no error but the PL2 ,temp and other does turn red once awhile if that what you mean error in TS bench

Testing cinebench r20 i have attached the log file for review,


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## unclewebb (Oct 7, 2020)

@budgetgaming - The log file shows that within 7 seconds of going to full load, your CPU starts thermal throttling. If you look in the far right column of the log file, it says TEMP over and over again. That is continuous thermal throttling. If this throttling happens when gaming, you might find that your games stutter a little bit.

When you see boxes turn red in Limit Reasons, that is just telling you the reason why your CPU is not running at its full rated speed. These are not errors. The purpose of these lights is just to tell you what is going on with your CPU.

When the TS Bench is running, if it gets a wrong answer when doing a calculation, at the top it will show 29 Errors or however many errors it finds. You definitely do not want to see the word Error appear during this benchmark test. When a CPU is stable there should not be any errors when it does a calculation.


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## nguyen (Oct 7, 2020)

80W PL1 and 90W PL2 is wayyy too high,  just reduce to 45W PL1 and 60W PL2
PL1: Turbo Boost Long Power
PL2: Turbo Boost Short Power
Increasing PL1 does not improve your performance when the CPU thermal throttle anyway, and the VRM on the motherboard would just burn up sooner or later.

Other than that your temp during gaming looks normal, as the CPU is only pulling ~35W.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 7, 2020)

Hai Uncle Web this is the last setting I have used
CPU Core 166.0 MV
CPU Cache 137.7 ( I lowered it and much stable in this setting)
Turbo Boost Long PM 60
Turbo Boost Short PM 80
Enable Speed shift when trottlestop start (Checked)
Speed Shift - EPP 125, C1E, Speedstep and BD prochot marked
PKG Power Max on 56watt and Max Power on 67 watt

In limit reason there is no error or box

is stable test in in TS bench few times on size 768 (I have attached the file) but when i test on Cinebench R20, the PL1 and EDP other does turns red and sometimes blink in red. what do you advice to do next.



nguyen said:


> 80W PL1 and 90W PL2 is wayyy too high,  just reduce to 45W PL1 and 60W PL2
> PL1: Turbo Boost Long Power
> PL2: Turbo Boost Short Power
> Increasing PL1 does not improve your performance when the CPU thermal throttle anyway, and the VRM on the motherboard would just burn up sooner or later.
> ...


Tried you setting changing your PL! and PL2 , the limit reason box shows PL1, PL2 and EDP other do shows and blink in red.

one more thing i forgot to tell you, if you set your performance mode in Omen comand center, The default PL1 & PL2 in throttlestop is PL1 80 and PL2 is 90, My laptop is Omen DH0105tx, by switching to performance mode, the Power is realese much bigger then balance mode. which is why the thermal performance are much higher....


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## nguyen (Oct 7, 2020)

Well here is my Throttlestop settings









Here is how to extract the highest undervolt out of your CPU
1. Set Speed Shift to 0, PL1 PL2 to 45W
2. First find a common offset voltage for both Core and Cache, test them with TSbench and CinebenchR20
3. Increase the offset voltage only on the Core, note down CinebenchR20 score for every increases, once the score stop improving then you have found the highest undervolt, usually they are 2:1 to the Cache offset. Example I have -85mV on Cache and -170mV on Core.

Note that this undervolt might crash if you put EPP to 128, which would lower clocks. Setting EPP to 0 keeps CPU clocks high at all times, which is better anyways.
#2 increasing PL1 PL2 is futile, I do 2 cinebenchR20 run with 45W and 70W, with 45W PL1 I get 3386 and with 70W I get 3661, which is only 8% increase in score, for 55% more power (and 14C hotter)
#3 You have to use less agressive undervolt for your Battery profile, the undervolt above will not work if clocks are low.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 7, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Well here is my Throttlestop settings
> 
> View attachment 171116View attachment 171117View attachment 171118
> 
> ...


i will try your setting, but your is I7 gen 10 will it work?

Cpu Core 169.9
Cpu Cache 85
Epp 0
PL1 = 45w
PL2 = 45w

R20 Bench score only 1980
Cpu speed maximum 3.1ghz all core.

No termal but very low score...how to increase it? I have attached the Log file for you to see


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## nguyen (Oct 7, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> i will try your setting, but your is I7 gen 10 will it work?
> Cpu Core 169.9
> Cpu Cache 85
> Epp 0
> ...



Well my CPU has 8 cores so higher score is a given. Each CPU has different undervolting capability so you have to test your own. Try -200mV on core and -100mV on Cache to see if your CinebenchR20 score increase, if it is stable then try increasing by 10mV each time.

After you find the highest undervolt, try playing some game. From your initial log I found your CPU was running at only ~3Ghz in MW (due to EPP at 115). After setting EPP to 0 you will find your CPU runing ~4.0 Ghz most of the time, and temperature will increase too. I think 45W PL1 PL2 is already the highest you can go without thermal throttling.

You can also try repasting your CPU for better thermal, for me I use Thermalright TF-X which is easily lower temp by 10C.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 7, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Well my CPU has 8 cores so higher score is a given. Each CPU has different undervolting capability so you have to test your own. Try -200mV on core and -100mV on Cache to see if your CinebenchR20 score increase, if it is stable then try increasing by 10mV each time.
> 
> After you find the highest undervolt, try playing some game. From your initial log I found your CPU was running at only ~3Ghz in MW (due to EPP at 115). After setting EPP to 0 you will find your CPU runing ~4.0 Ghz most of the time, and temperature will increase too. I think 45W PL1 PL2 is already the highest you can go without thermal throttling.
> 
> You can also try repasting your CPU for better thermal, for me I use Thermalright TF-X which is easily lower temp by 10C.


My COD MW is currently Re instaling due to error when i start, now is a whoping 220gb for the game...once done downloading, I will update the process, I am curently using Grizzly Kryonaut, I repaste it because i cannot stand the temperature while playing game before using Throttle stop.

I hope i can put the liquid metal on this laptop but i am to afraid to try it out. 

Question Does the PL1 and PL2 does limit the core to go full load on 4ghz while under full load? and in limit reason PL1 and PL2 keeps blingking is it normal? and what is EDP other?


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## nguyen (Oct 7, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> My COD MW is currently Re instaling due to error when i start, now is a whoping 220gb for the game...once done downloading, I will update the process, I am curently using Grizzly Kryonaut, I repaste it because i cannot stand the temperature while playing game before using Throttle stop.
> I hope i can put the liquid metal on this laptop but i am to afraid to try it out.
> Question Does the PL1 and PL2 does limit the core to go full load on 4ghz while under full load? and in limit reason PL1 and PL2 keeps blingking is it normal? and what is EDP other?



Yeah so there is another of your problem, Kryonaut is not meant for Laptop at all, Kryonaut is too thin (watery) to use on laptop. The reason is the heatsink on laptop has low mounting pressure, create a bigger gap between the CPU and the heatsink compare to Desktop CPU heatsink. Kryonaut could just drip straight out from the CPU when you store your laptop vertically. 





From your TS screenshot the delta temperature between cores on your CPU is 25C, which suggests that the thermal paste application is not good. Either repaste your laptop again or buy another TIM, I use Thermalright TF-X which is perfect for Laptop (very thick paste), normally delta temp between core is 12C or less. 

Also do not use Liquid Metal on Laptop, LM react with bare copper so after a while your CPU would just overheat again. 

From your log it seems your CPU can almost reach 4Ghz in game with 45W PL, provided it does not thermal throttle first. If after you repaste and the temperature improve you can always change PL1 PL2 to higher number. 

Yeah the PL1 PL2 limit blinking is normal, the CPU is adjusting it's clocks trying to maintain the 45W power limit.
EDP Other you can try increase IccMax slider to max (under the CPU Core Voltage in FIVR window)


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## budgetgaming (Oct 8, 2020)

Test It gaming this morning

CPU Core at 220.7
CPU Cache at 100.6
PL1 45watt
PL2 45 Watt
EEP 0

Playing game COD MW is stable no crash, I would try to do stable test with R20 again to push the CPU Core futher. Last R20score with these setting is 2025.

about the Thermalright TF-X, I only found 1 online shop selling the paste, is quite expensive but if it's good then I will give it a go. The thermal Paste of that brand is quite rare in Jakarta here.

I have attached file for you to advice


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## nguyen (Oct 8, 2020)

Seems like HP software is locking PL1 to 30W, I guess you are using Balanced Mode ? You can set to Performance Mode then manually set 45W in ThrottleStop.

If you can find Kingpin KPx TIM then it should be good too, or Gelid GC-Extreme
Refer to this table for high viscosity TIM
Yeah don't believe when they say lower viscosity is better, at least on Laptop.


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## AOne (Oct 8, 2020)

I can't seen here Noctua HT-H2. This paste has a max working temp of 200C unlike most in the table which are up to 100-110, and degrade within weeks with our high temp ovens. So, maybe this chart is old.


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## nguyen (Oct 8, 2020)

yeah it's from 2017 after all.








						Thermal Paste Round-up: 85 Products Tested
					

This much-needed update to our thermal paste round-up now includes 85 contenders. It's one of the most comprehensive comparisons available, so we hope you find it useful!




					www.tomshardware.com


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## AOne (Oct 8, 2020)

Old generation pastes tend to degrade in working temps above 85 C. That's why they're not appropriate for 8th to 10th gen CPUs. I had to go through 3 different praised pastes until figuring this out.


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## nguyen (Oct 8, 2020)

AOne said:


> Old generation pastes tend to degrade in working temps above 85 C. That's why they're not appropriate for 8th to 10th gen CPUs. I had to go through 3 different praised pastes until figuring this out.



Jup, me too, I knew about Kryonaut degrading above 80C before, so I bought some Thermalright TF-X recently and it turned out to be perfect for laptop (high conductivity, high viscosity, high endurance).
This paste is so freaking hard to spread that I just put a long blob of it on the CPU, 5 blobs on the GPU, heat them up with the hair dryer then assemble the heatsink. Thermal is amazing afterward.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 8, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Seems like HP software is locking PL1 to 30W, I guess you are using Balanced Mode ? You can set to Performance Mode then manually set 45W in ThrottleStop.
> 
> If you can find Kingpin KPx TIM then it should be good too, or Gelid GC-Extreme
> Refer to this table for high viscosity TIM
> ...


It is on the performance mode, should i reset the throttle stop and put the omen comand center in performance mode then open throtte stop,

Sorry I get it, In omen command center I have to choose and set manualy on default profile each game, thats why when in playing certain game it goes back to default, let me try to set it and get back to you

I dont get it, The Temp are higher when i change the mode to Performance

CPU core at -220.7
Cpu Cache at -100 
PL1 45watt
PL2 45 watt

The Log file shows temperature warning

This is making me crazy


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## nguyen (Oct 8, 2020)

it's simple, the core clocks are higher than before, around 3.6-3.7Ghz and you get thermal throttling. To get past this you have to change thermal paste, both on CPU and GPU (they both are thermal throttling).
It's time to replace your Kryonaut TIM i guess.

PS: changing to the Performance profile also increase the power limit on the GPU, thus generating more heat.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 8, 2020)

you are right, since i just order the thermalpaste, I use the one that got in my hand, still using the Thermal grizzly krynaut, replace it.

CPU Core 240.2
CPU Cache 1006
PL1 PL2 = 45watt
Speedshift 0

I have attached log file for you to advice, what do you think, you are right about the thermal paste, Can't wait to get the thermalright, Also the thermalpad I consider to replace it, which brand do you think it's good for gaming laptop?


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## nguyen (Oct 8, 2020)

wow that is a remarkable difference after the repaste there. Since you have a little thermal headroom now, you can play around with PL1 PL2 a bit more, increase PL1 PL2 to 50W to get some more performance out of your CPU.

Thermal pads you can choose any brand that is 5W/mK or better, they don't make much difference.

Undervolting you can try increasing the Cache too, so 120mV Cache 240mV Core, if unstable reduce to 110mV cache 220mV Core.


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## AOne (Oct 8, 2020)

Perfect. The temp graph looks just like my 9750H. Just as Nguyen said - try increasing the PL limits. Mine are set way higher - 90/70. By the way, my Asus is not using thermal pads but paste an all other component. I use some cheaper paste for these places, like MX4.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 8, 2020)

nguyen said:


> wow that is a remarkable difference after the repaste there. Since you have a little thermal headroom now, you can play around with PL1 PL2 a bit more, increase PL1 PL2 to 50W to get some more performance out of your CPU.
> 
> Thermal pads you can choose any brand that is 5W/mK or better, they don't make much difference.
> 
> Undervolting you can try increasing the Cache too, so 120mV Cache 240mV Core, if unstable reduce to 110mV cache 220mV Core.



core 240 and cache 120 already tested and play with COD, is stable and tested is ts bench 3 stage and also 5x loops on R20 with no error.....can i push it more to 250v/125v ? its getting interesting here



AOne said:


> Perfect. The temp graph looks just like my 9750H. Just as Nguyen said - try increasing the PL limits. Mine are set way higher - 90/70. By the way, my Asus is not using thermal pads but paste an all other component. I use some cheaper paste for these places, like MX4.



does it works well, I have been thinking about it too but won't it be troublesome if you have to repaste every thing when its time to change the thermalpaste?

90 for short turbo? how is the temperaure?


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## AOne (Oct 8, 2020)

As I said, my temps are just like the one from your post. 90-91 is a peak value if it's hotter at home (above 28-30 C). Usually never exceed 87-88. But under 95 C is pretty much good enough. It means the CPU is not thermal throttling, which is an achieved goal. It's a little bit of mess when going for repasting, but lets hope it happens less than once in two years. I had to repaste 4 times in a row until finding the right paste, but changed the paste on the VRam only the first time. Afterwards only sorted it together for making a proper contact.


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## nguyen (Oct 8, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> core 240 and cache 120 already tested and play with COD, is stable and tested is ts bench 3 stage and also 5x loops on R20 with no error.....can i push it more to 250v/125v ? its getting interesting here



Yeah just keep finding your max undervolt, it is fun to optimize your machine.

If you have some games that have built in benchmarks like Far Cry 5, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Borderlands 3 you can compare your results to this Laptop reviewing channel








						Jarrod'sTech
					

Tech videos focusing on laptop reviews, PC hardware, gaming benchmarks and more to help you choose the tech that's right for you! If you're interested in lap...




					www.youtube.com


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## unclewebb (Oct 8, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> core 240 and cache 120


Improvement in performance or temperatures usually ends when the core is set to approximately -225 mV. When you go beyond this level, you will probably not see any improvement. Even if you set the core to -1000 mV, it will ignore the majority of that.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 9, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> Improvement in performance or temperatures usually ends when the core is set to approximately -225 mV. When you go beyond this level, you will probably not see any improvement. Even if you set the core to -1000 mV, it will ignore the majority of that.



Noted

I have increase the PL1 55wat & PL2 70w, I have tested a few 60/80 temperature goes above 95 degree if i do the 60/80, I think i will go with the 55/70 it much below 95 watt.

I have attached the file for advice, I do not dare to put 70/90 just like @AOne said, these temperature is to high and will throttle I think.

Any way thank you guys for advising to set the throttelstop, you guys have been very helpfull, thank you: @unclewebb , @nguyen and also @AOne for participating...


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## unclewebb (Oct 9, 2020)

@budgetgaming - Your log file shows that at the top of the hour (22:00) your CPU is PL1 power limit throttling at 55W. At 22:26 your CPU starts to PL1 power limit throttle at 50W. Did you change this setting within ThrottleStop while testing?

If you did not change this setting in ThrottleStop and if you are still using the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits option then that means your laptop has been designed to enforce a long term 50W power limit. You are on the edge of thermal throttling at 55W so backing this off to 50W is not a bad idea. If your laptop is forcing this on you, then it is what it is.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 9, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> @budgetgaming - Your log file shows that at the top of the hour (22:00) your CPU is PL1 power limit throttling at 55W. At 22:26 your CPU starts to PL1 power limit throttle at 50W. Did you change this setting within ThrottleStop while testing?
> 
> If you did not change this setting in ThrottleStop and if you are still using the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits option then that means your laptop has been designed to enforce a long term 50W power limit. You are on the edge of thermal throttling at 55W so backing this off to 50W is not a bad idea. If your laptop is forcing this on you, then it is what it is.



Sorry I did change the PL1 and PL2 because in throttle stop I saw yellow indicator of thermal, but when I saw in the log file I did not see any thermal, I thought is war throttling thats why i change the PL1 and PL2 in the middle of testing.


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## unclewebb (Oct 9, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> Sorry I did change the PL1 and PL2


Busted. I have a keen eye when looking through those ThrottleStop log files.   

It is OK to have some brief thermal throttling. If you have continuous thermal throttling then you need to improve cooling or you can reduce your turbo power limits. Some people prefer power limit throttling and some prefer thermal throttling. It does not really matter.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 9, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> Busted. I have a keen eye when looking through those ThrottleStop log files.
> 
> It is OK to have some brief thermal throttling. If you have continuous thermal throttling then you need to improve cooling or you can reduce your turbo power limits. Some people prefer power limit throttling and some prefer thermal throttling. It does not really matter.



Eye like a hawk, hahaha, i prefer my Laptop under 95, max if possible is 90 degree +-, since we cannot control di ambient temperature, especialy Indonesia has hot weather, I am testing the thermal in air conditioner room, which I elevate in Laptop stand, when Traveling I seldom bring the laptop stand which will sit flat on the table, that what I consider.

I will be going for 55 / 70 for PLi think is sweespot for my laptop in COD, I have to try other heavy games which CPU intensive to see more result. but as @nguyen said better replace the thermal paste with higher viscosity for laptop. I found that my krynaut needs to be change quite often if CPU temperature is always on 90++


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## budgetgaming (Oct 11, 2020)

I tried on PL1 70watt and PL2 on 90 watt, the CPU clock speed are good but get thermal, There is no PL1 and PL2 warning, about the power status change I think the command center it self set the power change. 

Maybe I need to bring it down a little bit lets say 65/85...... or 60/80 maybe


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## nguyen (Oct 11, 2020)

Well if you plan on using your laptop for a long time then I don't think running high power limit is a good idea. Remember that your laptop warranty is only 1 year, the CPU might be ok running 97C but the power circuitry could cook itself to death.
Other heat related death is solder joints, high temperature swing (low ambient temp and high temperature load) could cause solder to fail, and yeah after that your Laptop is dead.
These are reasons why Laptop have such short warranty 
Overall the cost of running high PL seems to outweight the benefits. You wouldn't even notice the perf difference when the CPU is running at 3.9ghz vs 4ghz anyways.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 11, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Well if you plan on using your laptop for a long time then I don't think running high power limit is a good idea. Remember that your laptop warranty is only 1 year, the CPU might be ok running 97C but the power circuitry could cook itself to death.
> Other heat related death is solder joints, high temperature swing (low ambient temp and high temperature load) could cause solder to fail, and yeah after that your Laptop is dead.
> These are reasons why Laptop have such short warranty
> Overall the cost of running high PL seems to outweight the benefits. You wouldn't even notice the perf difference when the CPU is running at 3.9ghz vs 4ghz anyways.



Agree, i think PL1 55 watt and PL2 at 65 Watt is good enough already, Its a laptop have to sacrifice mobility versus performance


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## nguyen (Oct 11, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> Agree, i think PL1 55 watt and PL2 at 65 Watt is good enough already, Its a laptop have to sacrifice mobility versus performance



Yeah you have to sacrifice some performance for reliability too, by lowering the VRM temp by 10C you could make the capacitors last twice as long.
Capacitors usually have endurance rating of 2000-5000h at 105C depending on brand, at 95C its lifespan is doubled. There are no thermal sensor on capacitors and VRM (or not exposed to users), so you never know if they are overheating or not, you just know when they die. When I opened my laptop to repaste, I noticed that the inductors and capacitors do not make contact with the heatsink, they will build up heat over time.

That is probably why some OEM put some stringent PL into their Laptop (Dell put like 10W PL into their laptop), as to improve their reliablity. Some industry numbers mention Laptop have a failure rate of 30% in 3 years. 

For me I run PL1/PL2 of 45W and I'm happy with the performance and fan noise.






Yeah inverted motherboard is a pain to take apart ~_~


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## budgetgaming (Oct 11, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Yeah you have to sacrifice some performance for reliability too, by lowering the VRM temp by 10C you could make the capacitors last twice as long.
> Capacitors usually have endurance rating of 2000-5000h at 105C depending on brand, at 95C its lifespan is doubled. There are no thermal sensor on capacitors and VRM (or not exposed to users), so you never know if they are overheating or not, you just know when they die. When I opened my laptop to repaste, I noticed that the inductors and capacitors do not make contact with the heatsink, they will build up heat over time.
> 
> That is probably why some OEM put some stringent PL into their Laptop (Dell put like 10W PL into their laptop), as to improve their reliablity. Some industry numbers mention Laptop have a failure rate of 30% in 3 years.
> ...


What gaming laptop are u using? Must be crazy spec laptop, does vrm can use thermal paste also?


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## nguyen (Oct 11, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> What gaming laptop are u using? Must be crazy spec laptop, does vrm can use thermal paste also?



I have the Acer Triton 500 with 10875H + 2070 Super, 32GB RAM, 300hz screen, yeah I would like my laptop to last as long as it can 
The VRM of CPU and GPU do have some thermal pads, but not chokes and capacitors.

May be I can pop open the back of the laptop and measure the temperature on the back side of the PCB , usually they are close enough to the surface temp of the components.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 11, 2020)

I am planing to give the omem laptop to my son, thats why i set the throttlestop first because he only knows how to play only. I am thinking of dell m15 or msi GE66 what do you recomend, looking for rtx 2070 super for my next.... But rtx 3 series is on the corner. Should i wait?


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## AOne (Oct 11, 2020)

I would avoid both Dell and HP. Dell are usually locking their voltages. Maybe Lenovo, Asus, Acer would be a better choice. I'm happy with my ASUS (9750h/RTX2070). Asus' heatsinks are really capable of dissipating all the heat, unlike many other popular brands. Their only problem is bad quality factory applied TIM (just like all the others). And they're noisy in Turbo mode of course, but it's understandable - that's the way to throw out the heat. By the way their 2020 models come with factory applied Liquid Metal and recent years models are with paste on the VRAM - no thermal pads used.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 11, 2020)

Correct me if i am wrong Asus=Rog, Acer= predator right? What do you think of MSI, alittle cheap site on material if what I think


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## AOne (Oct 11, 2020)

Yes, Asus=Rog. I've not seen anything for MSI recently.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 11, 2020)

I was browsing for GE66 it has 10gen intel and rtx 2070, i have seen know that amd gen 4 is a big hit, which some claim better performance then intel gen 10, is it true? But i jave never seen above rtx 2060 for amd


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## nguyen (Oct 11, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> I am planing to give the omem laptop to my son, thats why i set the throttlestop first because he only knows how to play only. I am thinking of dell m15 or msi GE66 what do you recomend, looking for rtx 2070 super for my next.... But rtx 3 series is on the corner. Should i wait?



If you plan on giving your laptop to your son then maybe set the PL to be more conservative is better.

I would advice you to wait a while before buying new laptop now that mobile RTX 3000 is about to come out. 
Intel 10th mobile and Ryzen 4000 mobile are about the same for gaming, with AMD being better for production workload but there are no high end GPU for AMD platform yet.

So yeah, just wait.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 24, 2020)

I just repaste my laptop with thermalright tf, which has red tube, but i found that the temp are much higher then using thermal grizzly krynout....... whne TPL 1 & 2 on 45 and 50, never had issue with thermal, but replace it  then try to pl COD, thermal are crazy, this is just browsing with chrome.


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## AOne (Oct 24, 2020)

Try once more. It should be from the application method and assembly. I spread a very thin and even layer and then tighten the screws very carefully according their numbers. If the second attempt fails, try another one... and so on.


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## unclewebb (Oct 24, 2020)

@budgetgaming - Your log file shows that when your CPU is fully loaded and power consumption is at 45W, the CPU temperature is mostly in the 75°C to 80°C range. Lots of power limit throttling but the temperatures are a long ways from causing any thermal throttling.

If you were only browsing with Chrome, you might want to open up the Task Manager and find out why your CPU was fully loaded.


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## nguyen (Oct 24, 2020)

Woops forgot to give you some advices on the TF-X application
_Put 5 big blobs on the GPU (1 center and 4 corners)
_Put 1 long blob on the CPU
_Mount the heatsink and tighten the screws in the X order to distribute the pressure evenly
_Use hair dryer to heat up the entire heatsink combo for a few minutes
_Tighten the screws a bit more.

TF-X is much thicker than Kryonaut, so you have to heat it up and tighten the screws as much as possible.

If your mount is perfect, check if you have lower GPU temp than before. If GPU temp is indeed lower, it just means that more heat from GPU are being transfered to the heatsink, thus heat up the CPU a bit more than before.

If your CPU core to core temperature are consistent (<10C difference) then all is good even when temp is slightly higher compare to Kryonaut, remember that Kryonaut is the best TIM out there, its only defect is the pump out effect which I talked about earlier.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 25, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Woops forgot to give you some advices on the TF-X application
> _Put 5 big blobs on the GPU (1 center and 4 corners)
> _Put 1 long blob on the CPU
> _Mount the heatsink and tighten the screws in the X order to distribute the pressure evenly
> ...


Thats strange, my thermalright is not that hard, it the same as other brand regarding the stickyness. Did i get fake one?


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## nguyen (Oct 25, 2020)

It supposed to look very dry when you try to spread it, make it impossible to spread properly so I just put blobs of it on GPU and GPU instead.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 25, 2020)

Repaste again and manualy spreding it. You all are correct the temps can't beet the Thermal Grizzly....but maybe this would last longer. attached the log file PL1 & 2 is on 45watt


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## unclewebb (Oct 25, 2020)

You were doing better before. You are back hitting 100°C.


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## nguyen (Oct 25, 2020)

Yeah I think you have to repaste again, don't try to spread the TIM, just put some big blobs of it on the CPU and GPU, heat them up with hair dryer then mount the heatsink.
Here is my laptop thermals with maximum fan speed, with auto fans (which I use) the CPU and GPU are ~6C warmer


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## budgetgaming (Oct 25, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Yeah I think you have to repaste again, don't try to spread the TIM, just put some big blobs of it on the CPU and GPU, heat them up with hair dryer then mount the heatsink.
> Here is my laptop thermals with maximum fan speed, with auto fans (which I use) the CPU and GPU are ~6C warmer


What game are u playing?


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## nguyen (Oct 25, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> What game are u playing?



Death Stranding


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## budgetgaming (Oct 25, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Yeah I think you have to repaste again, don't try to spread the TIM, just put some big blobs of it on the CPU and GPU, heat them up with hair dryer then mount the heatsink.
> Here is my laptop thermals with maximum fan speed, with auto fans (which I use) the CPU and GPU are ~6C warmer



let me try it again to see how good this thermal paste goes.....I have doubt but I will try it again for the sake of curiosity...hehehe (Learn by doing) I will update soon


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## nguyen (Oct 25, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> let me try it again to see how good this thermal paste goes.....I have doubt but I will try it again for the sake of curiosity...hehehe (Learn by doing) I will update soon



Yeah I think the TF-X paste is the hardest TIM to apply properly so it might take you a few tries. It only took me 1 try but I was extra careful applying it (my laptop is a pain to take apart after all).
Overall I believe if applied properly, the thermal performance would be very close to a freshly applied Kryonaut .

This is how I applied the TF-X on the GPU die, on the CPU I just put a long blob


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## budgetgaming (Oct 25, 2020)

I have not closed it, what dou you think? Is this correct


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## AOne (Oct 25, 2020)

It looks just according instructions. Still I don't like this type of application. If you'd like to experiment, stick a glass or transparent plastic sheet above it and see how the paste spreads. In my opinion it would leave edges uncovered and air gaps in the middle.


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## nguyen (Oct 25, 2020)

Looks good to me, heat them up with hair dryer before you mount the heatsink, it help with the spreadability.



AOne said:


> It looks just according instructions. Still I don't like this type of application. If you'd like to experiment, stick a glass or transparent plastic sheet above it and see how the paste spreads. In my opinion it would leave edges uncovered and air gaps in the middle.



I wouldn't do this way either except that this TIM is impossible to spread with the spatula, it would just stick to spatula and not the die surface ~_~


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## AOne (Oct 25, 2020)

I'm using plastic mini "spatula" and all the pastes I've tried adhered pretty good. Mabey this one is too dense, but it doesn't look that way in the pictures. If the surface is cleaned well enough with isopropanol for example (or any other spirit liquid) there should be no problem.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 25, 2020)

This is Playing division 2 a few minitus PL1 &PL2 45watt. Don't know what to do anymore, the temp does not reach 97, but is a little higher then Krynout....



unclewebb said:


> You were doing better before. You are back hitting 100°C.



yes , I change the Thermal paste from Grizzly Krynout to Thermalright TX, a little higher on the temp

This is in COD MW


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## nguyen (Oct 25, 2020)

Yeah seems like the thermal are a few C higher than with Kryonaut.
You can try tighten the screws a bit more right after gaming when the laptop is still warm.
_unscrew the laptop first
_leave the bottom in place
_play COD for a bit
_quit game and shut down immediately
_open the bottom and tighen the screws a bit more.


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## AOne (Oct 25, 2020)

Don't they have springs, which apply the pressure anyway?


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## nguyen (Oct 25, 2020)

AOne said:


> Don't they have springs, which apply the pressure anyway?



Yeah but higher mounting pressure is always better, the smaller the gap between the core and heatsink the higher the heat transfer. That's why you can't solely rely on thermal conductivity of TIM to decide which one is better, since TIM with smaller particles allow smaller gap.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 25, 2020)

Higher vicosity is pain in the ass to apply , let me try to warm it up again and thithen the screw..... While i switch the thermalpaste, i did switch the thermalpad on my board, does it effect when not position right?


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## nguyen (Oct 25, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> Higher vicosity is pain in the ass to apply , let me try to warm it up again and thithen the screw..... While i switch the thermalpaste, i did switch the thermalpad on my board, does it effect when not position right?



well thicker thermal pads might have widen the gap between core and heatsink, which I did notice from your picture. Do you have any 0.5mm pads for the memory instead of 1mm ?


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## AOne (Oct 25, 2020)

I would remove pads and use paste instead. My last Asus comes like this from the factory. Yes, it's messier, but you don't risk putting too thick pads, which is a major fault.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 25, 2020)

nguyen said:


> well thicker thermal pads might have widen the gap between core and heatsink, which I did notice from your picture. Do you have any 0.5mm pads for the memory instead of 1mm ?


 well i only replace the pads that have the same thickness with my new pads, the thinnest is 1mm, I did not replace  the 2mm pad because i dont have it, and i am afraid that putting the 1 mm pad would not reach. I did change them with Minus 8 pad....

@AOne, yes I have 0,5mm lying around I am scared to use because in the heat sink there is no 0,5mm used. also using thermalpaste would it be safe? there are very small chip that 1/4 size of the cpu which they have the same matirial cooled by pad, and i think they use the 2mm pad to cool it. using pink colour pad just like the battry.

What do you guys think should i change the pad to 0,5mm or using thermal paste? what effect in overall temp for the CPU & GPU?

this is extreme test, using my laptop on the table without elevating it. Playing Dauntless for a while....reminder that my set up is hooking up to my omen monitor and playing with keyboard. std position of my laptop is whit laptop trey and eleveting it with Sitstand. I already thiten it again while is till hot...


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## nguyen (Oct 25, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> well i only replace the pads that have the same thickness with my new pads, the thinnest is 1mm, I did not replace  the 2mm pad because i dont have it, and i am afraid that putting the 1 mm pad would not reach. I did change them with Minus 8 pad....
> 
> @AOne, yes I have 0,5mm lying around I am scared to use because in the heat sink there is no 0,5mm used. also using thermalpaste would it be safe? there are very small chip that 1/4 size of the cpu which they have the same matirial cooled by pad, and i think they use the 2mm pad to cool it. using pink colour pad just like the battry.
> 
> What do you guys think should i change the pad to 0,5mm or using thermal paste? what effect in overall temp for the CPU & GPU?



The small chip is the chipset, barely need cooling at all, so leave to old pad as is.

Can you take a picture of the heatsinks and laptop PCB ?

Well replacing thermal pad with better ones could also explain the higher CPU and GPU temp since more heat are transfered to the heatsink after all. Although with lower VRAM temp, your FPS stability would improve (less FPS dip).

You can play games and check with Afterburner if you have fewer FPS dip, if it does improve FPS stability then all is good 

Edit: yeah the CPU is thermal throttling pretty hard when you are playing game there.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 25, 2020)

Should i increse the speedshift just to bring down the temp? Oh One more thing, in the log, middle of reading the power status change, what is that? do you know?


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## unclewebb (Oct 25, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> power status change, what is that?


You usually get these messages when you switch from AC to battery power. I have seen some log files where these messages happen every 5 seconds as the computer tires to keep the battery at a constant 70%. 

One random Power Status message is OK.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 25, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> You usually get these messages when you switch from AC to battery power. I have seen some log files where these messages happen every 5 seconds as the computer tires to keep the battery at a constant 70%.
> 
> One random Power Status message is OK.


thank you for the explanation..



nguyen said:


> The small chip is the chipset, barely need cooling at all, so leave to old pad as is.
> 
> Can you take a picture of the heatsinks and laptop PCB ?
> 
> ...



You want me to pic while the heatsink attached or I have to remove it?


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## nguyen (Oct 25, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> You want me to pic while the heatsink attached or I have to remove it?



Removed, but probably too late now


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## budgetgaming (Oct 26, 2020)

I think i want to change back to thermal grizzly, i have attached my pc pic for you to advice

Do you know what is this? It has thermalpad but i dont think i have replace the correct thikness, can i stack the thermalpad? The last picture that i uave attached


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## nguyen (Oct 26, 2020)

The last pic is supposedly the missing VRAM modules, since 2060 has 6GB (6 modules of 1GB each), the last 2 memory modules are not populated, there is no need for any thermal pad.

Seems like the TF-X spreaded properly, so yeah I'm sorry the result is not as good as you would expect.

some advice when you repaste, I have drawed the places you need to put on the thermal pads, cut them to size and place the thermal pad over the components themselves and not on the heatsink to prevent mis-alignment
And you can double stack 1mm thermal pads where it's needed, these component generate very little heat anyway.


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## budgetgaming (Oct 26, 2020)

nguyen said:


> The last pic is supposedly the missing VRAM modules, since 2060 has 6GB (6 modules of 1GB each), the last 2 memory modules are not populated, there is no need for any thermal pad.
> 
> Seems like the TF-X spreaded properly, so yeah I'm sorry the result is not as good as you would expect.
> 
> ...


Dont worry worth trying out, i myself like trying out every possible way.... Thank u very much

After repasting with thermal grizzly Krynaout. and also replacing the Thermal pad with Minus 8.....Thermalright was not working well in my laptop so I have atthaced the thermal for discussion. I have found out that PL1 & PL2 putting in 49watt both gives better result and no throtteling. almost in the verge of Prochot but did not happen, yeah i think IF you want to be safer put PL1 & 2 on 45watt.


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## nguyen (Oct 26, 2020)

Seems like your thermal are much better and more stable now, not sure if you bought a bad TF-X paste or not, bad luck I guess  .
It's not too rare to find some bad batches of TIM circling the market. 

Now just save your log of freshly applied Kryonaut so you can come back to it when needed, time for gaming


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## budgetgaming (Oct 26, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Seems like your thermal are much better and more stable now, not sure if you bought a bad TF-X paste or not, bad luck I guess  .
> It's not too rare to find some bad batches of TIM circling the market.
> 
> Now just save your log of freshly applied Kryonaut so you can come back to it when needed, time for gaming



That what I post the other day, I took pic of the thermalright, I afarid I got scame got the fake one......that's why I post this in this forum, Maybe I just got bad TIM after all....So to the next project, I am planing to buy new laptop, I fell in love with GE66 SFS model, but still holding on because of the price...what do you think..should i get another brand? any recomendation,


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## nguyen (Oct 26, 2020)

I just looked at some GS66 reviews and they are very positive, what specs are you looking at ?
Just some advices, don't waste money on the top end i9 10980HK or 2080 Super Max-Q, this thin and light laptop is not meant to extract maximum performance outta these chips. Basically the 10980HK is held back by thermal and power limit constraint and the 2080 Super MaxQ is being held back by the underpowered CPU  .
My Acer Triton 500 with 10875H + 2070 Super MaxQ pretty much give identical performance to the i9 10980HK + 2080 Super MaxQ in this review


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## budgetgaming (Oct 26, 2020)

In my country the SKU of ge66 is i7 gen 10th + rtx2070 and if you want the 2070 super  i comes with i9 gen 10th. All has 32gb ram and 1tb of m.2*. *I realy looking for laptop has good cooling, my omen 2019 model realy suck at temp. My stable watt is only 49.


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## nguyen (Oct 26, 2020)

How about the MSI GE75 Raider with 10980HK + 2070 Super ? This 17in laptop have much better cooling than the GS66 and have much higher power limit for CPU and GPU (up to 90W for CPU and 115W for GPU)


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## budgetgaming (Oct 26, 2020)

Looking at GE not GS they have diffrent model, ge75? Thick and huge.....


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## budgetgaming (Nov 1, 2020)

Today I was testing with my laptop, I found out that the VR thermal is shown on the limits reason, what is that? is this got something to do with the thermalpads i have change and is not working properly? while i was playing games, I have found out that in the limits reasons there is no thermal, but in the log file it has....


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## unclewebb (Nov 1, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> VR thermal


That indicates that your voltage regulators are running too hot.

I see over 5 minutes of constant thermal throttling in the log file. It only changes when you lower the power limit from 45W to 40W. Instead of thermal throttling, then you get mostly PL1 power limit throttling. Without much better cooling, you will never achieve maximum performance. One thing or another will be overheating or you will end up with power limit throttling.



budgetgaming said:


> I have found out that in the limits reasons there is no thermal


Were you using any other monitoring software at the same time? I know HWiNFO will clear throttling information out of the CPU which can interfere with ThrottleStop obtaining accurate throttling information. For best results, exit any other monitoring apps when using Limit Reasons or when logging information with ThrottleStop.


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## budgetgaming (Nov 1, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> That indicates that your voltage regulators are running too hot.
> 
> I see over 5 minutes of constant thermal throttling in the log file. It only changes when you lower the power limit from 45W to 40W. Instead of thermal throttling, then you get mostly PL1 power limit throttling. Without much better cooling, you will never achieve maximum performance. One thing or another will be overheating or you will end up with power limit throttling.
> 
> ...



Other monitoring programe i used is the Omen Command center, The rest I have removed it.
I was testing my laptop without any elevating and laptop cooler, so that i can know when i am traveling without those things it wont overheat. I have change  the PL1 to 50 and PL2 70, lso What is PPO current limit, should i change them the amount of PL1 and PL2 total?

What makes the VR regulator hots, Is that have something to do changing the thermal pads not i correct thickness?


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## nguyen (Nov 1, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> Other monitoring programe i used is the Omen Command center, The rest I have removed it.
> I was testing my laptop without any elevating and laptop cooler, so that i can know when i am traveling without those things it wont overheat. I have change  the PL1 to 50 and PL2 70, lso What is PPO current limit, should i change them the amount of PL1 and PL2 total?
> 
> What makes the VR regulator hots, Is that have something to do changing the thermal pads not i correct thickness?



Yup, the Voltage regulator are the ones I drawed blue on your laptop internals.
Seems like you need to open it up and check if the thermal pads make proper contact (by checking the indentation on the thermal pads)


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## unclewebb (Nov 1, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> What makes the VR regulator hot


When your CPU runs continuously at 98°C, everything near by, including the voltage regulators, are going to heat up. Hopefully you find a problem with the thermal pads and can correct this.

Set the PP0 Current Limit to a big number. You have enough throttling problems already.


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## budgetgaming (Nov 1, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> When your CPU runs continuously at 98°C, everything near by, including the voltage regulators, are going to heat up. Hopefully you find a problem with the thermal pads and can correct this.
> 
> Set the PP0 Current Limit to a big number. You have enough throttling problems already.



I decided to strees test using Furmark and Strees Test the CPU together, Tired off playing games on testing,

This laptop is very bad on Thermal realy, for what I think., Thin but lack of cooling, even PL1 on 45 wats always throtteling while playing games. SO I decided to bring the PL1 40wats and PL2 on 45 wats.

This is the result, my room temperature is 24-25 degree. this test without any external cooling and elevating the laptop. result also not to good. about the VR thermal i don't see it anymore maybe because the setting I used was PL1 50- and PL2 70. may it that cause to heat up quickly.

I don't think the result are good also, always on 95 above.....



nguyen said:


> Yup, the Voltage regulator are the ones I drawed blue on your laptop internals.
> Seems like you need to open it up and check if the thermal pads make proper contact (by checking the indentation on the thermal pads)



I will try to check it again, I need to buy the 2mm thickness just in case it does not conteac with the thermal


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## AOne (Nov 1, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> I will try to check it again, I need to buy the 2mm thickness just in case it does not conteac with the thermal


This way you're risking to leave a gap between CPU/GPU and heatsink. As I said before- try cheap paste for the peripherals like VRAM.


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## budgetgaming (Nov 1, 2020)

AOne said:


> This way you're risking to leave a gap between CPU/GPU and heatsink. As I said before- try cheap paste for the peripherals like VRAM.


Sorry i dont quite understand how am I going to do this, some thermal pads uses 2mm smoe are 1mm if i use the thermal paste how will it all touch the heatsink


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## nguyen (Nov 1, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> I decided to strees test using Furmark and Strees Test the CPU together, Tired off playing games on testing,
> 
> This laptop is very bad on Thermal realy, for what I think., Thin but lack of cooling, even PL1 on 45 wats always throtteling while playing games. SO I decided to bring the PL1 40wats and PL2 on 45 wats.
> 
> ...



wow you really like torturing your laptop do you .
The way I see is your laptop cooling is incapable of dissipating all the heat that the CPU and GPU produce, indicated by thermal rising slowly until thermal throttling.
That is the sad reality of thin and light laptop, you have to sacrifice some performance, or deal with very loud fans.

Though CPU hitting 95C is okay for long term, Voltage Regular running up to thermal throttling is not good sign, so yeah have a look at them before the VRM burn out. You can put some thermal paste on top of the current thermal pads too.


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## budgetgaming (Nov 1, 2020)

nguyen said:


> wow you really like torturing your laptop do you .
> The way I see is your laptop cooling is incapable of dissipating all the heat that the CPU and GPU produce, indicated by thermal rising slowly until thermal throttling.
> That is the sad reality of thin and light laptop, you have to sacrifice some performance, or deal with very loud fans.
> 
> Though CPU hitting 95C is okay for long term, Voltage Regular running up to thermal throttling is not good sign though, so yeah have a look at them before the VRM burn out.



Can I stack thermal pads, Sorry for the stupid question..


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## AOne (Nov 1, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> Sorry i dont quite understand how am I going to do this, some thermal pads uses 2mm smoe are 1mm if i use the thermal paste how will it all touch the heatsink


No pads - paste only. Thick layer of paste, so you're sure it conducts heat from VRAMs to heatsink. Mine is like that from factory.


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## nguyen (Nov 1, 2020)

AOne said:


> No pads - paste only. Thick layer of paste, so you're sure it conducts heat from VRAMs to heatsink. Mine is like that from factory.



yeah that depends on the gap size, too big and the thermal paste is useless.
I put some thermal paste on VRAM and they don't make any contact with the heatsink at all. Same with VRM too.



budgetgaming said:


> Can I stack thermal pads, Sorry for the stupid question..



Yes you can stack them, make sure you heat up the heatsink with hair dryer and tighten the screws. Hold the screwdriver with your fingers and tighten to a complete stop, in the X order too.


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## AOne (Nov 1, 2020)

Just be careful, not to detach the threaded tiny bushings from the board, cause than you'll find yourself into an adventure. Been there, done that with my previous laptop (2-3 years old at the moment).
The gap between VRAMs and heatsink is approximately 2 mm on my current Asus. I understand your argument, that too much paste would serve as an insulator instead of dissipater, but it's manufactured like that.


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## budgetgaming (Nov 1, 2020)

nguyen said:


> yeah that depends on the gap size, too big and the thermal paste is useless.
> I put some thermal paste on VRAM and they don't make any contact with the heatsink at all. Same with VRM too.
> 
> 
> ...



Hey Nguyen, I have goodnews for you, I finaly did it pasting thermalright, By extra heating the heatsink until it very hot as you told me, Place it and keep heating it until you tighten the screw, now the Temp the same as Krynout well almost. I have attached my temp while idel and TS bench....same as Krynout....

Also the Voltage regulator on the top, I suspect that it did not touch the heat sink, I add another layer which i check that it uses 2mm thick Thermalpad.


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## nguyen (Nov 1, 2020)

good job there , yeah high viscosity paste can create some resistance against tightening the heatsink when it is cold, best to heat it up.


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## budgetgaming (Nov 1, 2020)

I think I know know how to paste better....but undervolting still learning.....


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## budgetgaming (Nov 2, 2020)

Dear all,

I have tried every setting that i know pushing it to the edge from minimum to maximum, Playing AAA titles more then 20 minutes, my laptop is surly will 97 degree especialy with GPU running if I put EPP on 0, I know that higher nuber will slow down the CPU but the temps will not be crazy as 0. I have monitored that while gaming on EPP 0 the speed of CPU are around 3.8-3.4, pushing the EPP to std state which 128 playing AAA titels will put cpu speed 3.0 - 3.1 with 100% CO%, but the temperature is more on stable around 80 not more then 90......I think putting the EPP 0 is not a good choise when playing games in long run, but doing office work maybe be will be mopre fit lowering the EPP numbers....what do you think


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## budgetgaming (Nov 11, 2020)

nguyen said:


> good job there , yeah high viscosity paste can create some resistance against tightening the heatsink when it is cold, best to heat it up.



Hai today I found out that the temp are back alot worse, when idle it never went below 54 degree and gpu is idle on 50 degree, Funy thing sometime when browsing it spike the temp to 97....


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## nguyen (Nov 11, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> Hai today I found out that the temp are back alot worse, when idle it never went below 54 degree and gpu is idle on 50 degree, Funy thing sometime when browsing it spike the temp to 97....



Does your laptop sit in one place all the time or you carry it around ?
After some heavy workload, I suggest let the laptop cool down first before storing it in a backpack (let the laptop sit in idle for 15min before shutting down). The reason is that the TIM might drip out from the CPU die when you store the Laptop vertically and the TIM is still hot.


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## budgetgaming (Nov 11, 2020)

I forgot to photo when I replace the I found out that the tin on the cpu die barely left....also the Thermalpad, I found that there is resedue on the pad....I have worried that i might not get the right thickness of the pad


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## Hicksetto (Nov 20, 2020)

Do you know why my post gone to "moderator approval" ?

Hello Guys,

I have been testing some ThrottleStop setting for a while and come across to this valuable topic. First of all thanks a million to @unclewebb for this great tool. And many thanks to @nguyen and @budgetgaming for priceless inputs in this topic.

I'm using HP Omen 15 2020 with i7 10750H CPU and RTX 2070 Max-Q Refresh (105w.) GPU.

I found best perf/temp with below settings after reading this topic but I'm sure that we can improve with your great experiences:

Speed Shift - EPP : 0
CPU Core Offset Voltage : -0,225.6 mV
CPU Cache Offset Voltage : -0,82 mV
TPL PL1 : 45
TPL PL2 : 55

CPU temp is around 80 degrees and most of the time I see CPU over 4.0 GHz. (This make me feel Windows is very responsive than before.)

I hit my best 3D Mark Time Spy with 7384 points. ( VGA OC'ed a bit.)

My questions are;

I was using EEP 128 / No PL / -0.115 mV for all CPU/Cache/iGPU before and getting around 7200 3D Mark TS points and some times (very rare) CPU can jump up to 90 for a second maybe. I was thinking that Core/Cache UV voltage values should be same and if not CPU will use higher value for both and ignore lower one. And one more thing, I was getting BSOD if I go above -0,115 mV. before.

Now could you please explain why these changes did not make a performance improvement but make temps lower? I was getting 3200 points from Cinebench R20 before but now I can only get 2760 points... Why I can't see the performance of CPU (over 4.0 GHz. ) on benchmarks?

Thanks in advance...

Adding TS log on Cinebench R23 Multi Core running for 30 mins...

Adding TS settings:


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## nguyen (Nov 20, 2020)

Hicksetto said:


> Speed Shift - EPP : 0
> CPU Core Offset Voltage : -0,225.6 mV
> CPU Cache Offset Voltage : -0,82 mV
> TPL PL1 : 45
> TPL PL2 : 55



So these are your current UV settings ? maybe you can try -90mV on Cache and -180mV on Core (once Core offset is more than 2:1 ratio to Cache, there is no benefit). 

From your R23 stress log I can see you have plenty of thermal headroom, you can increase the performance by increasing the Long power to 55W and Short power to 70. In game CPU temp can stay in the 80C and some peaks over 90C are totally okay. Or if you want to lower the fan noise then keep the current PL1/2 and lower the fans speed. 

I think keeping the EPP value at 0 would be best for a more responsive experience, the higher the EPP, the slower the CPU clock ramp up and lower performance in Cinebench.


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## Hicksetto (Nov 20, 2020)

nguyen said:


> So these are your current UV settings ? maybe you can try -90mV on Cache and -180mV on Core (once Core offset is more than 2:1 ratio to Cache, there is no benefit).
> 
> From your R23 stress log I can see you have plenty of thermal headroom, you can increase the performance by increasing the Long power to 55W and Short power to 70. In game CPU temp can stay in the 80C and some peaks over 90C are totally okay. Or if you want to lower the fan noise then keep the current PL1/2 and lower the fans speed.
> 
> I think keeping the EPP value at 0 would be best for a more responsive experience, the higher the EPP, the slower the CPU clock ramp up and lower performance in Cinebench.



Thanks a lot @nguyen !

Testing with:

Speed Shift - EPP : 0
CPU Core Offset Voltage : -180.7 mV
CPU Cache Offset Voltage : -90.8 mV
TPL PL1 : 55
TPL PL2 : 70 

Cinebench R20 jumped to 2933
3D Mark Time Spy jumped to 7479

TS log during 3D Mark Time Spy attached...

So far so good 

And adding 30 mins. long Cinebench R23 TS log:


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## unclewebb (Nov 20, 2020)

Hicksetto said:


> TPL PL1 : 55


At 55W, your CPU temperatures are fantastic. Nice to see a manufacturer include a decent heatsink and fan.

I would not hesitate to increase this to 70W for long and 80W or 90W for short. Be prepared for a higher Cinebench score.  



nguyen said:


> once Core offset is more than 2:1 ratio to Cache, there is no benefit


I have found that on 10th Gen CPUs, you can benefit from exceeding the 2:1 ratio. The 8th and 9th Gen liked 2:1 but most of the 10th Gen have to use less cache offset so you can exceed 2:1.

-80 mV for cache and -200 mV or -220 mV for core is fine on 10th Gen.

Edit - I would also check the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box.


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## Hicksetto (Nov 20, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> At 55W, your CPU temperatures are fantastic. Nice to see a manufacturer include a decent heatsink and fan.
> 
> I would not hesitate to increase this to 70W for long and 80W or 90W for short. Be prepared for a higher Cinebench score.
> 
> ...



Thanks for follow up... What about "POWER STATUS CHANGE" records in logs? Are these normal?


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## unclewebb (Nov 20, 2020)

Hicksetto said:


> POWER STATUS CHANGE


These notifications usually happen when you unplug or plug in your laptop. If you are using some software to maintain your battery at 70% charge then you might also see a lot of these notifications. I prefer a fully charged battery.

Some laptops are shipped with power adapters that are inadequate. Some of these will switch to battery power when heavily loaded to make up the difference for the wimpy power adapter.

I only noticed this one time in your two logs. I have seen some laptops where this is happening every 5 seconds.


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## Hicksetto (Nov 20, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> These notifications usually happen when you unplug or plug in your laptop. If you are using some software to maintain your battery at 70% charge then you might also see a lot of these notifications. I prefer a fully charged battery.
> 
> Some laptops are shipped with power adapters that are inadequate. Some of these will switch to battery power when heavily loaded to make up the difference for the wimpy power adapter.
> 
> I only noticed this one time in your two logs. I have seen some laptops where this is happening every 5 seconds.



Thanks a lot @unclewebb really appreciated your efforts and kindness. 

I did not unplug/plug and I do not have battery maintaining software. Maybe it is related with "Some laptops are shipped with power adapters that are inadequate. Some of these will switch to battery power when heavily loaded to make up the difference for the wimpy power adapter." as you said. 

I will test more and will share my experiences. 

Do you have information about a tool which can be used for mobile GPUs like ThrottleStop ?


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## unclewebb (Nov 20, 2020)

The POWER STATUS CHANGE notice might have been an act of God. Perhaps there was a power drop and your laptop had to switch to battery power for a millisecond. The one time I saw this in the log file, there was no difference in performance registered. Nothing to worry about.


Hicksetto said:


> Do you have information about a tool which can be used for mobile GPUs like ThrottleStop ?


A ThrottleStop like mobile GPU tool would be wonderful. You can try MSI Afterburner to see if your GPU is supported. I think most mobile GPUs are locked down. Trying to flash the BIOS on a mobile GPU is too risky for me.


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## Hicksetto (Nov 20, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> The POWER STATUS CHANGE notice might have been an act of God. Perhaps there was a power drop and your laptop had to switch to battery power for a millisecond. The one time I saw this in the log file, there was no difference in performance registered. Nothing to worry about.
> 
> A ThrottleStop like mobile GPU tool would be wonderful. You can try MSI Afterburner to see if your GPU is supported. I think most mobile GPUs are locked down. Trying to flash the BIOS on a mobile GPU is too risky for me.



Thanks for explanations...

I set Power Limits to 70/90:

Cinebench R20 jumped to 3254 
3D Mark Time spy jumped to 7523 
And temp jumped to 89


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## unclewebb (Nov 20, 2020)

Hicksetto said:


> I set Power Limits to 70/90:


At 70W your temps are still OK. You could set the short limit to 80W or 90W and your Cinebench scores would improve some more. When the Nvidia GPU is active when gaming, you might have to use a more conservative power limit.

So many laptops are borderline pathetic. Your laptop was a lucky find. So much additional performance just waiting to be unleashed.



Hicksetto said:


> jumped


I really like how you keep using that word. Almost like we are training an animal to jump higher and higher through a hoop!

Edit - Only two 10750H submissions at HWBot so far. You are already ahead of both of them.








						OVIZ Hardware Lab`s Cinebench - R20 score: 3215 cb with a Core i7 10750H
					

The Core i7 10750H @ 4500MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R20 benchmark. OVIZ Hardware Labranks #null worldwide and #3 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




					hwbot.org
				




Use the Task Manager to run Cinebench at a higher Windows priority. Might be a few more points still hiding.
Does your laptop have the factory memory? Is it the 8 GB or 16 GB model? I think it must be the 16 GB model since that is the one that comes with the 2070 Max-Q.


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## Hicksetto (Nov 20, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> At 70W your temps are still OK. You could set the short limit to 80W or 90W and your Cinebench scores would improve some more. When the Nvidia GPU is active when gaming, you might have to use a more conservative power limit.
> 
> So many laptops are borderline pathetic. Your laptop was a lucky find. So much additional performance just waiting to be unleashed.
> 
> ...



Yes it is the one with 16 GB 2933MHz. RAM but I switched with 32 GB 2666MHz. RAM (this one has 3000MHz. XMP profile but my laptop does not support XMP profiles, I learned it after I bought the RAM).

Details: https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c06656597/

I will test some more settings and then post to HWBOT 

Exactly, we are training our laptops to jump more and more through benchmark hoops.


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## nguyen (Nov 21, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> I have found that on 10th Gen CPUs, you can benefit from exceeding the 2:1 ratio. The 8th and 9th Gen liked 2:1 but most of the 10th Gen have to use less cache offset so you can exceed 2:1.
> 
> -80 mV for cache and -200 mV or -220 mV for core is fine on 10th Gen.
> 
> Edit - I would also check the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box.



Before I only confirmed with R20 score when experimenting with core offset exceeding 2:1 ratio and it was within margin of error, but now I checked again and it really does lower the CPU temp with higher Core Offset. 

Thank you for your information, learning new trick every day is fun . 



Hicksetto said:


> Thanks for explanations...
> 
> I set Power Limits to 70/90:
> 
> ...



Fantastic score there buddy, another trick for higher Timespy score (also higher in-game FPS) is enabling the Max-Q dynamic Boost in NVCP. This will allow additional power for the GPU when CPU is using less than 45W. 
If you can't find it in the NVCP then it's not supported for your laptop, but I highly suspect it will.


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## Hicksetto (Nov 21, 2020)

nguyen said:


> Before I only confirmed with R20 score when experimenting with core offset exceeding 2:1 ratio and it was within margin of error, but now I checked again and it really does lower the CPU temp with higher Core Offset.
> 
> Thank you for your information, learning new trick every day is fun .
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot for the information, Dynamic Boost is enabled by default. 

Just wondering why Core/Cache offsets are behaving weird... For example I can set Core -225 Cache -82 or -220 / -90 or -115 / -115 but I cannot increase Core / Cache more than -115 both, or can not increase one above -115 if the other one is -115 or more, if I do this I got BSOD.

Which one would you choose?

-220 / -90 or -115 / -115


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## nguyen (Nov 21, 2020)

Hicksetto said:


> Thanks a lot for the information, Dynamic Boost is enabled by default.
> 
> Just wondering why Core/Cache offsets are behaving weird... For example I can set Core -225 Cache -82 or -220 / -90 or -115 / -115 but I cannot increase Core / Cache more than -115 both, or can not increase one above -115 if the other one is -115 or more, if I do this I got BSOD.
> 
> ...



I suspect that -115mV Cache/ -115mV Core is already unstable in your case, so keep Cache offset at -90mV and Core at -220mV would be best, also Core offet matters more anyways.

You can experiment on your own too, while confirming your undervolt stability with Cinebench R20 score or ThrottleStop Bench.


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## Hicksetto (Nov 21, 2020)

nguyen said:


> I suspect that -115mV Cache/ -115mV Core is already unstable in your case, so keep Cache offset at -90mV and Core at -220mV would be best, also Core offet matters more anyways.
> 
> You can experiment on your own too, while confirming your undervolt stability with Cinebench R20 score or ThrottleStop Bench.



Thanks! Both options leads to same temp values and looks stable that is why I’m asking.


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## nguyen (Nov 21, 2020)

Hicksetto said:


> Thanks! Both options leads to same temp values and looks stable that is why I’m asking.



You can test the -115mV Core/Cache with the TS bench with 1-2 threads for stability, sometimes it seems stable but it actually doesn't and might ruin your windows installation.


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## budgetgaming (Nov 21, 2020)

I belive that the Omen 2020 model has far better cooling then the 2019 model, Great Setting @*Hicksetto*
 and a very nice laptop too....


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## Hicksetto (Nov 22, 2020)

And finally I trained my laptop and now it can jump through my temp/perf/smoothness hoop. 

With below settings in screenshot, I'm not getting any limit or thermal throttling signal in TS and performance is rock solid:

3020 points in Cinebench R20
7470 points in 3D Mark Time Spy 

I tested in COD BO CW / MSFS2020 and results are like attached TS logs.
As you can see, the key thing here is I modified Turbo speeds for each active core number which did the trick.
With these settings micro stuttering totally gone, weird FPS drops gone...





My goal was never pure performance, I was only seeking optimal performance without any speed/fps/frequency drops and I finally did it with you great experiences. Once again thank you very much all of you in this topic...

@unclewebb @nguyen @budgetgaming


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## budgetgaming (Nov 27, 2020)

*@Hicksetto I have news for you, Omen Finaly heard us, Update your Omen command center with new Omen Gaming HUb, to a supprise for omen fans, There is option nativly to undervolt you laptop, is that great news....or what*


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## Hicksetto (Nov 27, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> *@Hicksetto I have news for you, Omen Finaly heard us, Update your Omen command center with new Omen Gaming HUb, to a supprise for omen fans, There is option nativly to undervolt you laptop, is that great news....or what*



Thanks @budgetgaming unfortunately "Undervolting" tab in OGH is not working for me. Posted details to HP forums with no luck:









						Omen Gaming Hub - "Undervolting" menu is not working. OCC SDK cannot be installed...
					

I'm using "OMEN Laptop - 15-ek0002nt" model Omen 15 2020 laptop. Today Omen Control Center updated from Windows Store to version v. 11.0.8.0 and its name changed to "Omen Gamin Hub". Most important change is now we have "Undervolting" tab!   Unfortunately "Undervolting" tab is not working for me...




					h30434.www3.hp.com
				




Anyways, afaik it can only modify Core/Cache voltages. TS gives us much more flexibility. Thanks again to @unclewebb 

I want to test it if I can make it work...


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## budgetgaming (Nov 27, 2020)

Hicksetto said:


> Thanks @budgetgaming unfortunately "Undervolting" tab in OGH is not working for me. Posted details to HP forums with no luck:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have to remove your omen command center, restart and download again doing search omen gaming hub, i wass sucess in that


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## Hicksetto (Nov 27, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> You have to remove your omen command center, restart and download again doing search omen gaming hub, i wass sucess in that



Reinstalled it several times with no luck... Was it same issue for you before?


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## budgetgaming (Nov 27, 2020)

Hicksetto said:


> Reinstalled it several times with no luck... Was it same issue for you before?



Yes, first update the same as you, have u tried to look the windows store update... See if they install it or not

This is the result using inteligent mode bench marking on cinebench r23, very bad setting


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## Hicksetto (Nov 27, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> Yes, first update the same as you, have u tried to look the windows store update... See if they install it or not
> 
> This is the result using inteligent mode bench marking on cinebench r23, very bad setting



Noticed that it is updated to 11.0.11.0 version but nothing changed...


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## budgetgaming (Nov 27, 2020)

Yours is 2020 or 2019 model?

But not to worry throttle stop still the best anyway.....


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## Hicksetto (Nov 27, 2020)

budgetgaming said:


> Yours is 2020 or 2019 model?
> 
> But not to worry throttle stop still the best anyway.....



2020 model... For sure TS will be the best!


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## Hicksetto (Nov 28, 2020)

Hicksetto said:


> Thanks @budgetgaming unfortunately "Undervolting" tab in OGH is not working for me. Posted details to HP forums with no luck:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Issue resolved just after rolling back XTU driver to 6.5 version...


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## budgetgaming (Nov 29, 2020)

There is a new studio mode also which you can sync all omen pherperial, which was never been done by omen team before, now your omen can look like ROG


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## manosco (Dec 15, 2020)

Thanx for all advice guys! I have just bought a GE66 with i7 10850H and with stock preset it runs hellish hot and loud. I disabled DC central service (but not sure if it worked....cause clicking the icon in taskbar still open DC) and installed silent option. Then underwolted with TS, there are my settings: High performance profile: EPP: 25 TLR: max values -2 on all cores TPL1: 60 ; TPL2:70 undervolt: -54,8 on core and -100,6 on cache
Cinebench20 result is 3539, on stock preset it was 4037. Temperatures and fan loudness now are much manageable. Is this tweaking good enough in your opinion? Btw, with stock preset, EPP was 128 and TPL1/TPL2 was 200 (!!!)....

EDIT:

Well....re-reading all messages (first time
undervolting for me) I see I have inverted undervolting ratio between cire and cache... Luckily it seems work nevertheless, but tomorrow I'll try to reduce cache to -55 and pumping up undervolt in core. Strange thing is, first time cinebench20 result lost a couple of points from core -55 to -60, so I stopped there and (wrongly) put cache to double this value


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