# Throttling at low temperatures?



## y540 (Jan 8, 2021)

Hello!

I'm new to undervolting so I'm not sure if I'm entirely correct, but I think my CPU is throttling even though it's constantly at 65-70 degrees during gaming. The POWER alert near the limit section in throttlestop lights up red and PL1 among other things lights up. Is this a cause for concern? 

And, does it impact my CPU's longevity at all, considering it has relatively low temps during gaming I doubt that but it's still worrying to see that. I haven't really noticed any FPS drops except once, in which my temps were at 68. 

I have it undervolted at -135 and turbo boost long power max is at 65, while short is at 80. 

I just bought this laptop, specs:
i5-9300h
RTX 2060
16GB ram

Appreciate any input


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## unclewebb (Jan 8, 2021)

y540 said:


> Is this a cause for concern?


Definitely.


y540 said:


> does it impact my CPU's longevity at all


No. Power limit throttling just makes your CPU run at less than its full Intel rated speed. Your screenshot shows power limit throttling at 24W. You have a CPU that is rated for 45W long term. That does not look good or appropriate. Some laptops limit the CPU power whenever the Nvidia GPU is active. What laptop model do you have? A 9300HF should run constantly at 4000 MHz  when gaming as long as it is not overheating or power limit throttling.









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Make sure the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box is checked. Post some screenshots of the FIVR and TPL windows so I can see how you have ThrottleStop setup.
The best thing you can do is turn on the Log File option and then go play a game for at least 15 minutes. The more data the better. When done, exit the game and then exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize your log file. It will be in your ThrottleStop / Logs folder. Attach one to your next post. Screenshots are good. A log file tells all.

Use the newer version of ThrottleStop. Just copy and paste the new ThrottleStop.exe into your current ThrottleStop folder.








						ThrottleStop 9.2.9
					

ThrottleStop 9.2.9 https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/  New Features - added 10850K / 10900K support including a new Turbo Group access window. - updated the TS Bench and the C State window for the 10 core CPUs. - enabled Limit Reasons support for Comet Lake CPUs. -...




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There is a whole sub forum for ThrottleStop questions and answers. Have a look in there to learn more about ThrottleStop.








						ThrottleStop
					

Optimize and tweak your Intel processor




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## y540 (Jan 8, 2021)

Appreciate the quick reply 


unclewebb said:


> What laptop model do you have?


I have a lenovo legion Y540, glad to know that it's at least not damaging anything. So, press the disable and lock turbo power limits, got it. And on a side note, is this a good way to reduce temperatures? Considering it doesn't harm the cpu nor reduce the performance by much.

This is how my setup looks right now, I will also post the log files later today as soon as I get the chance:
Again, thanks for the help man



unclewebb said:


> Definitely.
> 
> No. Power limit throttling just makes your CPU run at less than its full Intel rated speed. Your screenshot shows power limit throttling at 24W. You have a CPU that is rated for 45W long term. That does not look good or appropriate. Some laptops limit the CPU power whenever the Nvidia GPU is active. What laptop model do you have? A 9300HF should run constantly at 4000 MHz  when gaming as long as it is not overheating or power limit throttling.


Alright, here's the log file screenshots:

Looks like it starts to PL throttle at the 70 c mark, and at 25 watts. I personally don't really notice much difference during gaming, FPS is about 70-100 at times and it's honestly fine for me. I'm mostly worried about temperatures rising and damaging the CPUs longevity. As long as this doesn't get to a point of where it becomes annoying I don't mind having power limit throttling, it's better than having thermal throttling.

However if I can get better performance without sacrifing the temps, that would be ideal. Anything else you need a screenshot of just tell.


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## unclewebb (Jan 8, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Make sure the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box is checked.


Follow that advice. Also follow the advice about using the latest version of ThrottleStop.

It is not normal to get power limit throttling at 25W. That is just bad design by Lenovo. Your temperatures are fine. No need for this throttling.

Your screenshots show that you are getting errors in the TS Bench test. That means your undervolt settings are not stable. Reduce the cache offset to -125 mV or less. Make sure there are no errors reported. Set the Intel GPU offset to +0.0000. You have a Nvidia GPU so the Intel GPU is rarely loaded significantly. If you are going to undervolt the Intel GPU, you need to undervolt the Intel GPU and the iGPU Unslice equally. If you only undervolt one of these, your request will be ignored.

Attach the log file as a text file or copy and paste the data to www.pastebin.com

Do some testing with Cinebench R20.








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Run a baseline test with the core and cache set to -125 mV. Keep the cache at -125 mV and start increasing only the core offset in steps of -25 mV. Do another Cinebench test. Most users are 100% stable and get their best results with the core at -200 mV or -225 mV.



y540 said:


> worried about temperatures rising and damaging the CPUs longevity


Intel has been setting the thermal throttling temperature to 100°C for the vast majority of Core i CPUs they have shipped during the last 12+ years. Any temperature less than this temperature is a safe operating temperature. If it was not safe, Intel would have lowered the thermal throttling temperature many years ago. Your screenshot shows that Lenovo has already reduced the thermal throttling temperature to 94°C. Your CPU is extra safe. No need to think twice about what temperature your CPU is running at. The only reason not to go for maximum performance in a laptop is if it causes too much fan noise. Lenovo forcing a 45W CPU down to 25W is disgusting. It is not what you paid for.


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## y540 (Jan 8, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Follow that advice. Also follow the advice about using the latest version of ThrottleStop.



I am using the beta, don't think it's showing though. Also tried the FIVR disable and lock turbo power limit, my laptop went all the way up to 90 c. I know it's not an emergency situation however I had a Y510p before which I let go wild in temps, often times reaching 90+ which made the CPU severely deteriorate over a few years and throttle beyond control. I would very much like to avoid crossing the 75c mark if possible, considering I'm a student and can't afford changing laptops every 2 years.

You are very right though, 25w is pretty low and bad design from lenovo. Worth noting though is that it reaches 45w during a TS bench but not in a game for some reason. I will try the -125 cache and gradually less core though. Putting the FIVR option on "do not save voltages" should help me in case a BSOD loop wants to happen. I really appreciate the amount of effort you put into helping people, if only more like you existed in the Laptop design market we would be ahead of our time man.


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## unclewebb (Jan 8, 2021)

y540 said:


> my laptop went all the way up to 90 c.


Your log file does not show 90°C. It only shows temperatures in the low 70°C range. Did you check the Disable and Lock box, get scared, and then cleared this box and rebooted?



y540 said:


> which made the CPU severely deteriorate


I have never seen a CPU severely deteriorate when running at 90°C. I also have a Y510P. It still runs great. If you send me your broken CPU, I will test it and replace it for you if it is broken. I have a few spares.



y540 said:


> throttle beyond control


The Y510P has some built in throttling issues thanks to Lenovo. It had these issues day 1, part of the original design. They were never fixed. You need to know how to setup ThrottleStop to fix these problems. If you still own and use this laptop, send me some pictures of how you have ThrottleStop setup.



y540 said:


> reaches 45w during a TS bench but not in a game for some reason


Back to the original problem. The power limit throttling is triggered by GPU usage. When you are playing a game and the Nvidia GPU is active, the CPU turbo power limit is forced lower and this is what triggers CPU throttling. If you can fix this issue by using the Disable and Lock option, then you can use ThrottleStop to set a more reasonable power limit of 35W or 40W if you want to keep your temperatures down. If your goal is 75°C max, I guess let it throttle at 25W. Lowering your voltage will help reduce power consumption and might help performance a tiny amount before throttling begins.


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## y540 (Jan 8, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> I will test it and replace it for you if it is broken.


Really appreciate the offer but that laptop is done for, opened it a few times and messed a few things up along the way, f.e fan has friction with something and it's generally slow. 



unclewebb said:


> Your log file does not show 90°C.


I did play, not for long though, and I also had trouble getting the limit back on again, that's when i rechecked the box and rebooted. 


unclewebb said:


> If you can fix this issue by using the Disable and Lock option, then you can use ThrottleStop to set a more reasonable power limit of 35W or 40W


I even had way better performance while running with the disabled PL box checked. I'd like to try that, how do I set a power limit to say 30w? I could see to which temperature this leads me to, and if it's not too bad I guess I could raise the bar a bit.


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## unclewebb (Jan 8, 2021)

y540 said:


> way better performance


Check the Disable and Lock box, go into the TPL window and you can set the turbo power limits to whatever you like. The screenshot you posted shows the turbo power limits are set to 65W for long and 80W for short. Since temperatures are important to you, try 50W for short and 35W for long. You can also adjust the turbo time limit. This controls how long the CPU will run at the short power limit before switching to the long power limit. Default is 28 seconds but you can lower this if you need to. These settings are infinitely adjustable. You should be able to come up with some sort of compromise, probably one that is better than what the factory gave you.

When you use the Disable and Lock feature, it remains locked until you reboot.


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## y540 (Jan 8, 2021)

Ok, giving it a try, thanks for the help! If this doesn't work out I might just refund it for a laptop with better cooling, sadly most of them look like christmas trees.


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## y540 (Jan 10, 2021)

I did it and it worked pretty good, throttling is at around 75c and 30 watts now which seems healthy. I think however that this laptop had been previously used and returned, and this 25w cap stuck around in the cpu settings from the previous user somehow. Is that possible? I've used the same model before (but with a GTX 1660 TI instead) and it didnt throttle until 90c or so, which is why I suspect this.


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## unclewebb (Jan 11, 2021)

y540 said:


> Is that possible?


Anything is possible but probably not. 



y540 said:


> (but with a GTX 1660 TI instead)


A laptop with a different GPU could also have a different throttling algorithm for the CPU. Different BIOS versions, etc., etc. can all make subtle changes behind the scenes that are rarely documented. It is difficult to find out why something does what it does or when a change was made or what that change does to performance.


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## MutatedT7 (Jan 11, 2021)

I can help here, I am using a Y740 and I have faced the exact same issue, Lenovo's Vantage software is messing with the hidden power limits set in the bios,
You'll have to do a bios flash to acces them. One temporary solution is to set the fan speed to "Performance Mode", this might seem like weird advice but changing this
will actually change the power limits in bios, the software is sortof connected to the powerlimits.

Much like this video from Brad's Hacks, it's were I originally discovered the problem.









I did some more research and I discovered a kind of Advanced BIOS that is present in Lenovo Legion models, so a BIOS Flash will not be necessary.
You can enter into the advanced BIOS and change the power limits, not quite sure on how the keycombo works though so I'll do some experimenting.
Aparantly you need to hit every single key on your keyboard? Rather weird but I'll test it regardless















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I managed to accces the Debug BIOS! It seemed like a trick from SM64 where you run around the fountain a thousand times to unlock Waluigi,
but it actually worked.

Here is how to acces it:
1. Shutdown your PC
2. Turn on your PC
3. Press the F2 key a bunch of times during boot to open the BIOS
4. Now on the information tab, Hold the FN Key (Do not let go until I tell you to!)
5. While holding the fn key, slide your finger from the Q-key, to the right, until you slid over the P-key.
6. Now, still holding the FN-key, follow the exact same procedure, but slide from the A-key, all the way until the L-key.
7. Lastly, repeat once more from the Z, to M-key.
8. Press F10 to save changes and exit the bios, this will put your BIOS into Debug mode
9. Your computer will restart, you can immediately press F2 again to check and see if it worked, I got it on my second try so just try again if it does not work the first time.

I wonder if @unclewebb has ever seen something like this before, the debug BIOS contains a LOT of features and you can
change anything you could possibly imagine, I think we will find the answers in here.

You can check the video above for every setting available in the Debug BIOS, I've attached some photo's of my own
to show you that it works. (As far as I can tell just entering the Debug BIOS changes no settings nor does it cause instability).

Let's get optimizing


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## y540 (Jan 12, 2021)

MutatedT7 said:


> I can help here,


I really appreciate the tutorial man, but I did some further research and it turns out my laptop really was used and the store sold it as brand new. CrystalDiskInfo shows 700+ GB read on the SSD when I had only had it for 5 days. Considering this I'm most likely returning it because that probably means the laptop parts have shorter life and because Ive been lied to by the store. But again, thanks for the help this would've really been useful!


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