# Upgrade for i7 3930K?



## DuxCro (Dec 27, 2018)

I decided to upgrade from my i7 3930K CPU. Which requires a new MBO and RAM. Which CPU do you think would be a good upgrade? I am fine with either intel or AMD. I do a lot of Twitch streaming so video encoding capabilities are important. Thank you.


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## Zyll Goliat (Dec 27, 2018)

What is your budget?


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## 27MaD (Dec 27, 2018)

But why ? that's a 6C/12T i7.


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## phill (Dec 27, 2018)

DuxCro said:


> I decided to upgrade from my i7 3930K CPU. Which requires a new MBO and RAM. Which CPU do you think would be a good upgrade? I am fine with either intel or AMD. I do a lot of Twitch streaming so video encoding capabilities are important. Thank you.



Is there anything that your current system isn't doing or are you noticing slow downs etc in the things it is doing?


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## Maban (Dec 27, 2018)

27MaD said:


> But why ? that's a 6C/12T i7.


I have one and my reasons are heat, power, no native USB 3, only two native SATA 6Gb/s ports, limited (non-existent?) NVMe boot support, X79 boards are going on seven years now, and while the chip is still capable, it just doesn't have the IPC today's CPUs have.


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## Vario (Dec 27, 2018)

I would need to know how many threads you typically use to be able to make a recommendation.  What types of things do you use the computer for?  What is your budget?



Maban said:


> I have one and my reasons are heat, power, no native USB 3, only two native SATA 6Gb/s ports, limited (non-existent?) NVMe boot support, X79 boards are going on seven years now, and while the chip is still capable, it just doesn't have the IPC today's CPUs have.


Yep that thing is old, no reason not to replace it but more information is needed.


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## DuxCro (Dec 27, 2018)

Can't quite handle gaming and x264 streaming. Even on very fast CPU preset i get encoding overload warning in OBS. I need something more capable. Which is especially the case since windows 10 1809 update. I think they fracked something up.


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## Vya Domus (Dec 27, 2018)

Maban said:


> it just doesn't have the IPC today's CPUs have.



IPC hasn't been improved much at all, neither the power consumption since core counts and clocks have skyrocketed.


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## Vario (Dec 27, 2018)

DuxCro said:


> Can't quite handle gaming and x264 streaming. Even on very fast CPU preset i get encoding overload warning in OBS. I need something more capable. Which is especially the case since windows 10 1809 update. I think they fracked something up.


I'd do a 2700X or 8700K or 9700K or 9900K.  Depends on your budget.


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## micropage7 (Dec 27, 2018)

what about something like dual processor board like 
*ASUS Z10PE-D8 WS*


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## DuxCro (Dec 27, 2018)

How much do you think i could sell my i7 3930K and ASUS Rampage IV Formula for?


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## phill (Dec 27, 2018)

Vario said:


> I'd do a 2700X or 8700K or 9700K or 9900K.  Depends on your budget.



I'd agree here.  Although I think the Intel side of things are just still too pricey for the performance.  But if you have the spare cash, then why not.  I think I'd still go with the 2700X, 32Gb ram, 1080 ish area of GPU and some nice fast storage.  
As @Vario has mentioned as I had, we'd need more information to help out properly.


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## Vya Domus (Dec 27, 2018)

X79 kits are still pretty expensive, but I am not sure many would want them. Nowadays you can get a 6c/12t system, new, for pretty damn cheap.


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## phill (Dec 27, 2018)

DuxCro said:


> How much do you think i could sell my i7 3930K and ASUS Rampage IV Formula for?



I'd keep it as a spare or use it for dedicated streaming PC or something.  Given most of the 3930k's I read about can do 4.5Ghz or more, I'm sure it'll be more than up to the job if it was just doing that one thing


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## Vario (Dec 27, 2018)

If its anything like the W3680 I have, its very dated compared to my 8600K.


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## EarthDog (Dec 27, 2018)

Well... clearly 6c/12t isn't cutting it so a 2700x or 9900k is about the minimum on the mainstream side to be an upgrade. 9700k is similar or a step back. 8700k is the same thing with slight increase in IP, but higher clocks.

Dude needs an amd with 8c/16t or the more expensive and slightly faster (in most tests) Intel equivalent. Ive seen a lot of streaming and gaming benchmarks and the AMD CPUs seemed to excel here... this is a no brainer AMD CPU choice to me...maybe even a TR 2920X.. that or build two systems. The streamer doesn't have to be beefy at all.


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## mouacyk (Dec 27, 2018)

You just missed out on the $300 E5 1680 V2 Xeons.  These can hold 4.5-4.6GHz for 24/7 with 8 cores and 16 threads.  Keep an eye on E-bay, and they may come back.


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## Vario (Dec 27, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> Well... clearly 6c/12t isn't cutting it so a 2700x or 9900k is about the minimum on the mainstream side to be an upgrade. 9700k is similar or a step back. 8700k is the same thing with slight increase in IP, but higher clocks.
> 
> Dude needs an amd with 8c/16t or the more expensive and slightly faster (in most tests) Intel equivalent. Ive seen a lot of streaming and gaming benchmarks and the AMD CPUs seemed to excel here... this is a no brainer AMD CPU choice to me...maybe even a TR 2920X.. that or build two systems. The streamer doesn't have to be beefy at all.


I have no problems gaming and streaming with an 8600K.  I think single thread speed is important if gaming is what he does.  Also you can run higher ram frequencies with Intel.
But if his budget is really the determinant, if its ~$300 than the 2700X is the obvious choice.


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## EarthDog (Dec 27, 2018)

Right... but we are talking about a worthwhile upgrade. Why have half the threads he started with when the budget seems to allow for more? The extra threads makes up for the small difference in IPC I would imagine. If he is keen on saving money and you say a 6c/6t CPU cuts it when his slightly slower 6c/12t CPU isn't, that is a good base.


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## Vario (Dec 27, 2018)

DuxCro said:


> How much do you think i could sell my i7 3930K and ASUS Rampage IV Formula for?


Probably $250 for the pair as a bundle.  You also need to sell the DDR3 and buy DDR4.

Here is a streamer benchmark comparison that includes 2700x and 8700K:
https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwrevie...w-game-streaming-cpu-benchmarks-memory/page-2
Another benchmark showing newer Intels and AMDs for x264
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13400/intel-9th-gen-core-i9-9900k-i7-9700k-i5-9600k-review/8

Benchmarks would make the case for an i9-9900K.

How about
i9-9900K
AsRock Z390 Taichi Ultimate
GSkill Tridentz 2x16GB  F4-3200C16D-32GTZKW
XPG 8200 Pro 1TB SSD

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/92DwnH


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## DuxCro (Dec 28, 2018)

Meh. I'll probably wait for Zen 2. Waited so long. So i'll get one of those with double digit core counts. No point in buying that overpriced i9 9900k if Zen 2 will have pretty much the same IPC at lower price.


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## cucker tarlson (Dec 28, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> Well... clearly 6c/12t isn't cutting it so a 2700x or 9900k is about the minimum on the mainstream side to be an upgrade. 9700k is similar or a step back. 8700k is the same thing with slight increase in IP, but higher clocks.
> 
> Dude needs an amd with 8c/16t or the more expensive and slightly faster (in most tests) Intel equivalent. Ive seen a lot of streaming and gaming benchmarks and the AMD CPUs seemed to excel here... this is a no brainer AMD CPU choice to me...maybe even a TR 2920X.. that or build two systems. The streamer doesn't have to be beefy at all.


much misinformation going on here.look at gamersnexus in-depth video analysis of streaming performance, 8700k is a better cpu for streaming than 2700x.
here 8700k stock delivers 34% more frames than stock 1700. Compare 8700k oc vs 2700x and the difference will be the same.





here is a direct comparison, 8700k 5ghz delivers 38% more frames than 2700x





8700k/9700k will be a huge upgrade over 3930k.
even 8600k will be faster than 3930k
https://www.purepc.pl/procesory/test_procesora_intel_core_i7_8700k_premiera_coffee_lake?page=0,29
look at 2600k, 8700k is 2.16x faster in video encoding, 8600k is 1.77x faster. You think only in terms of moar cores.


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## EarthDog (Dec 28, 2018)

Good info. However this is simply streaming by itself, not streaming and gaming at the same time, right?

Perhaps I went off old YT links too.


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## cucker tarlson (Dec 28, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> Good info. However this is simply streaming by itself, not streaming and gaming at the same time, right?
> 
> Perhaps I went off old YT links too.


what ?

it says player-side fps over 10 minutes, it's your avg. fps over 10 minutes of streaming a game


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## EarthDog (Dec 28, 2018)

5ghz 8700k vs stock 2700x?


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## cucker tarlson (Dec 28, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> 5ghz 8700k vs stock 2700x?


what's so surprising to you ? do you want ryzen to get worse performance then sure, oc it.

from tpu's review



> We set a voltage of 1.4 V, which is in line with what a good air cooler can handle, and increased frequencies step by step. The maximum stable overclock ended up at 4.2 GHz. Since the Ryzen 2700X boosts up to 4.3 GHz out of the box, which is higher than our manual overclock, many, especially low-threaded benchmarks show a performance loss after overclocking. This is as expected due to the relatively small OC and AMD's good use of the processor's boost potential.



if the OP has the money for 9900k he should go for it. 9700k would be a great choice too.


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## EarthDog (Dec 28, 2018)

Just curious what 4.1 ghz all c/t in the 2700x looks like too. 

What's funny is my advice doesnt change outside of TR suggestion. Thanks for the info!


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## cucker tarlson (Dec 28, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> Just curious what 4.1 ghz all c/t in the 2700x looks like too.
> 
> What's funny is my advice doesnt change. Thanks for the info!


the one for building a streamer pc seems best of all.
it'll not cost a  lot,just use a basic new-ish quad core with 4gb of ram and a hdd, and you'll have no fps loss on the player-side,ever,and a smooth viewer-side experience.


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## MrGenius (Dec 28, 2018)

DuxCro said:


> ...windows 10 1809 update. I think they fracked something up.


Forced Spectre protection CPU microcode updates. Killing performance for all(who didn't receive an equivalent performance killing mobo BIOS update with Spectre protection CPU microcode), and overclocking for some. Which can be fixed. But you have to do some minor OS system file hacking(and/or mobo BIOS downgrading). And be willing to give up Spectre protection.


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## ShieldHead (Dec 28, 2018)

Viewer-side fps matters more than a slight difference in player-side fps when streaming, and more cores make the difference more consistent.
 Between i7 8700k and ryzen 7 2700x I'd go for the latter.
9900k is the best but at double the cost of the ryzen...


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## Atreides (Dec 28, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> 5ghz 8700k vs stock 2700x?



Right. Misinformation...


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## cdawall (Dec 28, 2018)

Me personally? Overclock the 3930k and wait for ryzen 3 to hit the market. In theory increased IPC and clockspeeds will follow.

If you can't wait 2920/2950/2970 TR chips are all very strong choices. They keep you in the HEDT world as well.


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## Vario (Dec 28, 2018)

cdawall said:


> Me personally? Overclock the 3930k and wait for ryzen 3 to hit the market. In theory increased IPC and clockspeeds will follow.
> 
> If you can't wait 2920/2950/2970 TR chips are all very strong choices. They keep you in the HEDT world as well.


Why is it important to stay in the HEDT world and pay the HEDT premium?
Also, 9900K is cheaper both as a CPU and as a platform than a Threadripper build and performs better for gaming and nearly the same for x264
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13516/the-amd-threadripper-2-cpu-review-pt2-2970wx-2920x/8


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## cdawall (Dec 28, 2018)

Vario said:


> Why is it important to stay in the HEDT world and pay the HEDT premium?



There is not an option that exceeds 8 cores with current MDT. I do not personally see the point in exchanging a 6 core 12 thread CPU with quad channel memory for a CPU that is only going to marginally improve against that if one were to overclock them both. 

As someone who is going to be using the system to game and stream I would want to build the best system for both longevity and current performance. Both of those options would be better served with an HEDT setup, especially as we see games further and further use more and more threads.


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## Vario (Dec 28, 2018)

cdawall said:


> There is not an option that exceeds 8 cores with current MDT. I do not personally see the point in exchanging a 6 core 12 thread CPU with quad channel memory for a CPU that is only going to marginally improve against that if one were to overclock them both.
> 
> As someone who is going to be using the system to game and stream I would want to build the best system for both longevity and current performance. Both of those options would be better served with an HEDT setup, especially as we see games further and further use more and more threads.



If you don't see an improvement in single thread speed / instructions per clock from a 2011 to a 2018 processor, and improvement by 2 additional cores, 4 additional threads, ability to run 1GHz faster ram, a newer chipset with ability to add an NVME drive native, than what kind of improvement do you find to be more than marginal?

By the time 8 cores 16 threads is an obsolete amount for gaming, then the thread ripper will also be obsolete by being too dated compared to the future single thread speed requirement.
At that point, upgrade again.  If you are in this to never upgrade ever, this is the wrong hobby for you.

As a counterpoint to my above argument (in partial agreement with you): Also as far as quad vs dual, If this chart is to be believed, memory bandwith between Ivy-E @ 2133 and Skylake DDR4 @ 3600 is equivalent. https://www.techspot.com/news/62129-ddr3-vs-ddr4-raw-bandwidth-numbers.html  Shows some of the staying power of DDR3 quad.


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## mouacyk (Dec 28, 2018)

It's not much of a counter point.   Bandwidth is similar but latency is better on dual channel.   There are way too few applications that benefit from high RAM bandwidth anyway.  A specific example is the photoworxx bench in AIDA64.


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## cdawall (Dec 28, 2018)

Vario said:


> If you don't see an improvement in single thread speed / instructions per clock from a 2011 to a 2018 processor, and improvement by 2 additional cores, 4 additional threads, ability to run 1GHz faster ram, a newer chipset with ability to add an NVME drive native, than what kind of improvement do you find to be more than marginal?
> 
> By the time 8 cores 16 threads is an obsolete amount for gaming, then the thread ripper will also be obsolete by being too dated compared to the future single thread speed requirement.
> At that point, upgrade again.  If you are in this to never upgrade ever, this is the wrong hobby for you.
> ...



The 3930K can get to average overclock of 4.6ghz on air or water. Your typical 8700K and 9900K is around 5ghz. Yes the newer chip is faster, but is it enough to warrant an immediate upgrade right now when both AMD and Intel have supposed big upgrades around the corner? 

IPC is not vastly improved between Ivy Bridge E and anything of now.  Welcome to why everyone has been upset with intel over the past 5 years. Did you miss that?

NVMe drives are not adding performance in any game. Loading times are lower, sometimes.

I know memory performance is similar that's why I pointed it out. It is a solid point as to why HEDT is always the right answer. MDT is traditionally shorter lived because it cannot age well. The OP has a rig built with parts from 2011, so shooting for a shorter lived desktop would probably not be the best way for our members to probably steer him. Seeing how AMD has already announced that the TR4 socket will support gen 3 chips it is a perfect place if he cannot wait until the release of them. Intel HEDT is fine as well, if a little higher priced for very little reason. People currently enjoy that an 8 core MDT setup is quite strong in current games and applications, but that probably is not going to ring true as time progresses especially with OP being a streamer, why would you limit him to an 8 core and at about the same price as an HEDT rig?



mouacyk said:


> It's not much of a counter point.   Bandwidth is similar but latency is better on dual channel.   There are way too few applications that benefit from high RAM bandwidth anyway.  A specific example is the photoworxx bench in AIDA64.



Latency isn't that bad on quad channel DDR3. It keeps up pretty well until you eclipse 3200mhz DDR4 dual channel.


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## mouacyk (Dec 28, 2018)

Just in terms of numbers, latency difference is bad. Tuned max ddr3 quad channel is low 50's but tuned max ddr3/ddr4 dual is sub 40.  That's around 30% slower.


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## Atreides (Dec 28, 2018)

We all know Memory does not scale jezz...

Latency rules period and out. Could we please move on to clock for clock


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## Vario (Dec 28, 2018)

Frame time and maximum frame rate in game are substantially better on the 9900K compared to the 2920X shown in these reviews but you can also see the benefits of quad vs dual memory DDR4 and additional cores for non gaming
https://techreport.com/review/34214/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2920x-cpu-reviewed/2


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## Atreides (Dec 28, 2018)

IMOP it's still a game of diminishing returns. If we were cranking FSB on a C2 yeah. RAM clocks have been irrelevant since S974.


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## phill (Dec 28, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> much misinformation going on here.look at gamersnexus in-depth video analysis of streaming performance, 8700k is a better cpu for streaming than 2700x.
> here 8700k stock delivers 34% more frames than stock 1700. Compare 8700k oc vs 2700x and the difference will be the same.
> View attachment 113526
> 
> ...



I'd have another look at the link for Hexus as it does show a few more interesting things with the 2700X beating the 8700k, so apples to apples and such like..  
I still stand by my keep the 3930k and overclock it and use it as a spare/gamer/streamer..  It'll be more than enough I'm sure.


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## agent_x007 (Dec 28, 2018)

Also, any UEFI based board can support NVMe from within BIOS setup (it simply requires modding and updating BIOS with a proper dxe depository).


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## johnspack (Dec 29, 2018)

Crank that 3930k up.  My xeon is about the same cpu,  and I get 4.7ghz at under 1.35v.  It pushes my gtx980ti to above 1070 levels just fine.  I'm sure it could run a 1080ti just fine as well.
You've got a sandy-e,  they oc like crazy!  The only sane upgrade for me will be a zen2 cpu.  If you want to wait that long,  I suggest you do it,  and just oc that 3930k,  it's very capable.


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## cdawall (Dec 29, 2018)

Atreides said:


> IMOP it's still a game of diminishing returns. If we were cranking FSB on a C2 yeah. RAM clocks have been irrelevant since S974.



Socket 974?


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## Atreides (Dec 29, 2018)

cdawall said:


> Socket 974?


 You got me there read 939.


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## cdawall (Dec 29, 2018)

Atreides said:


> You got me there read 939.



Ram speed absolutely mattered on multiple sockets after that.

AM4 shows massive performance gains going from 2400 to 3200+. Hell there are applications I saw 5% gains going from 2933 to 3066 with my TR4 based 2990WX

Skylake and older also showed some healthy gains when pushing memory clocks. 

There is not really anything out there that doesn't have performance gains attached to ram clocks. Now yes most people wont notice 2933 to 3200, I agree with that. 2400 to 3200 or 3600 or 4000? Completely different story.


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