# Aerosols to protect Earth from global warming will be sprayed into the stratosphere



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Apr 12, 2017)

Harvard researchers are set to test aerosol sprays that could be used to combat climate change.

The controversial technique could one day be used to block incoming solar radiation and cool down Earth to combat the effects of global warming. 

The first-of-its-kind experiment could begin as early as next year and will pump small amounts of material into the stratosphere to reflect the sun's rays.


It will test the feasibility of what scientists are calling 'solar geoengineering' - though the Harvard team say that they will only use water vapour at first.

During testing, the team will analyse a variety of aerosol materials that could be used at scale in future.



Seeker.


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## Jborg (Apr 12, 2017)

http://www.dailywire.com/news/2071/most-comprehensive-assault-global-warming-ever-mike-van-biezen

Funny enough too, the Editor in Chief of this site graduated from Harvard. Ben Shapiro


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## DeathtoGnomes (Apr 12, 2017)

OH yeah great ! and that makes The Day After Tomorrow not just a movie but a prophecy...


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## Arctucas (Apr 12, 2017)

Proof the inmates are running the asylum...


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## DRDNA (Apr 12, 2017)

Arctucas said:


> Proof the inmates are running the asylum...


I've been thinking the same since I saw that show.....I was like wow that's really about the USA Government and planet for that matter.


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## erocker (Apr 12, 2017)

Uh.. They've clearly have been doing this for years already. Look up.


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## Norton (Apr 12, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Harvard researchers are set to test aerosol sprays that could be used to combat climate change.



Sounds familiar:


> The nations release the substance CW-7 with the intention of controlling the global warning, but accidentally it results in another Ice Age destroying Earth. The only survivors live in the train *Snowpiercer*


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowpiercer

Better reserve your tickets now!


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## erocker (Apr 12, 2017)

Love that movie!


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## IRQ Conflict (Apr 12, 2017)

Reminds me of all the eviro feelz we got form switching from a renewable, environmentally friendly products like paper bags. Good job filling the landfills with plastic....a$$holes! Or the time that eggheads in California set fire to a forest thinking they could control mother nature and ended up wiping out entire forested areas. It's high time the pseudo scientists and tree huggers stop @#%^ing with our planet and stick to what we KNOW works.

Fun Fact: CO2 is not just a greenhouse gas it's also plant food. Massive deforestation and reduction of CO2 means less oxygen for us. and that polar bear.


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## RejZoR (Apr 16, 2017)

We'll create an ice age ourselves as we'll really fuck up the atmosphere with this shit...


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## R-T-B (Apr 16, 2017)

IRQ Conflict said:


> Reminds me of all the eviro feelz we got form switching from a renewable, environmentally friendly products like paper bags. Good job filling the landfills with plastic....a$$holes!



The move is to actaully ban plastic bags, not paper.  I know because my city did this and it was very proud of it's "pioneering effort"


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## Toothless (Apr 17, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> The move is to actaully ban plastic bags, not paper.  I know because my city did this and it was very proud of it's "pioneering effort"


Not at my town did we ban plastic bags. I mean I just used one to carry my large amount of deli Mac n cheese to the sitting area for lunch.

So close yet so far from my froggy love town.


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## FordGT90Concept (Apr 17, 2017)

water vapor + stratosphere = cirrus clouds = much debate of their effect on forcing = silly proposal until the effects of high altitude clouds is known


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## Nephilim666 (Apr 17, 2017)

Reading these comments


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## Lionheart (Apr 17, 2017)

Nephilim666 said:


> Reading these comments



You post a facepalm meme without any argument? Enlighten us if you can.


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## R-T-B (Apr 17, 2017)

Lionheart said:


> You post a facepalm meme without any argument? Enlighten us if you can.



To be fair, everyone posting about how it "won't work" or will "fuck up our climate" using references to hollywood wasn't our finest level of argumentation.


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## erocker (Apr 17, 2017)

FordGT90Concept said:


> water vapor + stratosphere = cirrus clouds = much debate of their effect on forcing = silly proposal until the effects of high altitude clouds is known


Heh, you really think it's just water vapor?

Again, how is this a new thing? There's thousands of videos on You Tube that show this "spraying" being done systematically. Some show some sort of resonance/vibration being applied to these "fake clouds" that help them spread out. So, if Harvard is about to start doing this, who's been doing it?


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## FordGT90Concept (Apr 17, 2017)

The OP says they're starting with water vapor.


Previous spraying was for cloud seeding which has had mixed results and generally not done anymore in the USA (China is going to start doing it though apparently).

In order for clouds to reduce Earth's temperature, the clouds have to be thick and/or highly reflective.  Cloud seeding generally isn't a solution because the amount of seeding required to make a cloud that lowers temperature is relatively unpredictable and quite unreliable.


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## Lionheart (Apr 18, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> To be fair, everyone posting about how it "won't work" or will "fuck up our climate" using references to hollywood wasn't our finest level of argumentation.



Lmao yeah fair point


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## erocker (Apr 18, 2017)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Previous spraying was for cloud seeding which has had mixed results and generally not done anymore in the USA


They're still doing it here almost daily.


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## terroralpha (Apr 18, 2017)

Lionheart said:


> You post a facepalm meme without any argument? Enlighten us if you can.



argue with who? the idiot who blames environmentalists for something done by a lobbying groups and bought out politicians? or the guys who keep bringing up poorly scripted movies that bombed in every way possible?

but fine, i'll bite. Both NY and California tried to ban plastic bags in the 50s and the 80s, but were blocked every time by (mostly conservative) morons in power who regurgitated scripts given to them by plastics industry trade groups in exchange for campaign contributions. plastics lobbying groups literally wrote laws for their puppet politicians to bring to a vote.

i'll just assume the movie mentions were attempts at humor.

no one here actually knows the merits or drawbacks of the proposed methods of dealing with climate change. i have a bachelors in math/quantitative biology from Hunter college and a masters in biotech from Columbia university. that's the very fancy Columbia university in NYC that pumped out 70+ winners of nobel prizes in science. but even i don't pretend like i know what will or won't fix climate change.

if anyone here thinks they know better, they give out cash with those nobel prizes.


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## Lionheart (Apr 18, 2017)

terroralpha said:


> argue with who? the idiot who blames environmentalists for something done by a lobbying groups and bought out politicians? or the guys who keep bringing up poorly scripted movies that bombed in every way possible?
> 
> but fine, i'll bite. Both NY and California tried to ban plastic bags in the 50s and the 80s, but were blocked every time by (mostly conservative) morons in power who regurgitated scripts given to them by plastics industry trade groups in exchange for campaign contributions. plastics lobbying groups literally wrote laws for their puppet politicians to bring to a vote.
> 
> ...



I'm talking about in general jesus christ don't get your panties in a twist, at least you enlighten me/us with something.


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## erocker (Apr 18, 2017)

terroralpha said:


> no one here actually knows the merits or drawbacks


It kills my sunshine.


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## IRQ Conflict (Apr 20, 2017)

terroralpha said:


> but even i don't pretend like i know what will or won't fix climate change.


 That would be, because there is nothing to fix. Unless you can figure out how to adjust the temperature of the sun. Go get your Nobel.

For all you youngins out there.


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## FordGT90Concept (Apr 20, 2017)

Solar cycles are relatively regular though.  The hockey stick pattern of average greenhouse gases (especially carbon dioxide and methane) is not regular.

Wide view:
http://acrim.com/





Narrow view mostly up to date:
https://ceres.larc.nasa.gov/science_information.php?page=TSIdata





Carbon dioxide:





Methane:





Temperature:





Total solar irradiance no doubt contributed to the record breaking temperatures over the last five years or so but, in ~8 years, the sun is going to put out as much radiation as it did then too (11 year cycles).


Remember, the atmosphere is a very thin, delicate thing less than 1% the radius of the Earth itself...


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## FireFox (Apr 20, 2017)

Too late, the Earth it's already fuc@ed up.


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## DRDNA (Apr 20, 2017)

The Earth is F'd because the people's love of money out weighs their compassion for the People and their habitat.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 20, 2017)

erocker said:


> Love that movie!


Putting you in the roach bin to make the food. I'm gonna be chillin in the front eating stake with child labor.



DRDNA said:


> The Earth is F'd because the people's love of money out weighs their compassion for the People and their habitat.


OR it could be we are letting Brazil cut down the rain forests that are our number one air filter to make "alternative fuels" via sugarcane. I know that's an issue no one wants to address but, it a MUCH bigger issue than even the polar caps. 

You want to fix the environment? Invade Brazil and stop the deforesting.


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## Rosie Scenario (Apr 20, 2017)

A few years back all the passenger planes in western europe were stopped for a week. Because of a volcano in Iceland. Anyone remember that?

I remember that because the sky was lovely. Deep blue. And the air was great to breathe. Makes you think.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 20, 2017)

Rosie Scenario said:


> A few years back all the passenger planes in western europe were stopped for a week. Because of a volcano in Iceland. Anyone remember that?
> 
> I remember that because the sky was lovely. Deep blue. And the air was great to breathe. Makes you think.


Makes me think your a dinosaur that likes to breath volcanic air.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Apr 20, 2017)

Eyjafjallajökull


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## Rosie Scenario (Apr 20, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Makes me think your a dinosaur that likes to breath volcanic air.


Nah. "Stronger together".


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 20, 2017)

Rosie Scenario said:


> Nah. "Stonger together".


I dunno WTF that means. So since this is the internet Ill just assume you assumed my gender and be offended.


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## Luka KLLP (Apr 20, 2017)

My intuition would say it'd be a better idea to stop/reduce the processes we know to cause global warming, rather than starting some strange experimental project to try and combat it.


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## Rosie Scenario (Apr 20, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I dunno WTF that means. So since this is the internet Ill just assume you assumed my gender and be offended.


Relax. I didn't mean to offend you. It was not a volcano, it was military exercises. I thought you'd enjoy the joke.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 20, 2017)

Luka KLLP said:


> My intuition would say it'd be a better idea to stop/reduce the processes we know to cause global warming, rather than starting some strange experimental project to try and combat it.


Pfft. Where is your since of adventure? We wouldn't have Avocados today if the Aztecs didn't have a word for testicals.



Rosie Scenario said:


> Relax. I didn't mean to offend you. It was not a volcano, it was military exercises. I thought you'd enjoy the joke.


Nope to late. I'm offended and triggered.


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## Rosie Scenario (Apr 20, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Pfft. Where is your since of adventure? We wouldn't have Avocados today if the Aztecs didn't have a word for testicals.
> 
> 
> Nope to late. I'm offended and triggered.





What do you mean? I'm a funny guy?


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 20, 2017)

Rosie Scenario said:


> What do you mean? I'm a funny guy?


You're a guy names "Rosie"? Is that like your prison name?


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## Rosie Scenario (Apr 20, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You're a guy names "Rosie"? Is that like your prison name?


It's English. An expression. You speak English even with a pedo avatar.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Apr 20, 2017)

Can we get back on topic please and discuss how arseoles could possibly  protect the earth from global warming.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 20, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Can we get back on topic please and discuss how arseoles could possibly  protect the earth from global warming.


Sorry man! Ill chime out.


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## Rosie Scenario (Apr 20, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Sorry man! Ill chime out.


Me too.


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## dorsetknob (Apr 20, 2017)

They pm'ed and got a room   never mind Aerosols in the air its more like lust/romance


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## Rosie Scenario (Apr 20, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Can we get back on topic please and discuss how arseoles could possibly  protect the earth from global warming.


CAPS, The thing is I'm freezing in England in late april. I disagree about "global warming" but genuinely agree about polution of the land. And the sea. And the air. Nobody should spray in the air as there might be unforseen consiquences further down the line.


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## qubit (Apr 20, 2017)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Harvard researchers are set to test aerosol sprays that could be used to combat climate change.
> 
> The controversial technique could one day be used to block incoming solar radiation and cool down Earth to combat the effects of global warming.


Oh gawd, I can just see this being a little _too_ effective and causing a mini ice age... <facepalm>


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## dorsetknob (Apr 20, 2017)

qubit said:


> Oh gawd, I can just see this being a little _too_ effective and causing a mini ice age.


Well that's what they predicted in the 70's 
then global warming got the research Grants and the mini Ice age theory sort of Thawed


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## R-T-B (Apr 20, 2017)

IRQ Conflict said:


> That would be, because there is nothing to fix. Unless you can figure out how to adjust the temperature of the sun. Go get your Nobel.
> 
> For all you youngins out there.



I'm sorry, but if anyone took your face on face value or considered youtube as a good reference, they'd be pretty stupid.

The issue is far more complex than any one post wonder can settle.



> You want to fix the environment? Invade Brazil and stop the deforesting.



Except the Brazillian army could actually put up an effective fight.  They wouldn't win, but they aren't a 3rd world nation by any means.

If we're going with that line of thought, much easier to just threaten to nuke them.  Or we could just realize that oxygen levels have little to do with global warming.


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## rtwjunkie (Apr 20, 2017)

Rosie Scenario said:


> A few years back all the passenger planes in western europe were stopped for a week. Because of a volcano in Iceland. Anyone remember that?
> 
> I remember that because the sky was lovely. Deep blue. And the air was great to breathe. Makes you think.


You realize volcanoes are one of the top greenhouse gas producers, right? Err, obviously not. 

I don't say they are bad, by that comment, they are actually critical with their pollutants to keeping the Earth from being a frozen ball of slush.

So this is actually on topic, because what they want to do sounds counter to what the Earth and people have been doing already, by following the same principle.  Yet, to do it right, they would have to form a thick enough cloud cover to reflect heat from the sun.  This would kill plants.  It would also trap the pollutants and volcanic gasses inside that continue to be produced.  

Results: short run- ice age. Long run- Venus.


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## Rosie Scenario (Apr 20, 2017)

rtwjunkie said:


> You realize volcanoes are one of the top greenhouse gas producers, right? Err, obviously not.
> 
> I don't say they are bad, by that comment, they are actually critical with their pollutants to keeping the Earth from being a frozen ball of slush.
> 
> ...



Well, opinions are what make us what we are. I really want to get back to the tech stuff, but....rtw- What are greenhouse gases?


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## IRQ Conflict (Apr 20, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I'm sorry, but if anyone took your face on face value or considered youtube as a good reference, they'd be pretty stupid.
> 
> The issue is far more complex than any one post wonder can settle.


 Indeed. I suggest you follow the links in the article and do a little leg work. It's not hard. B-T-W, it should be read thusly: 'no one can take you at face value'.


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## R-T-B (Apr 20, 2017)

IRQ Conflict said:


> Indeed. I suggest you follow the links in the article and do a little leg work. It's not hard. B-T-W, it should be read thusly: 'no one can take you at face value'.



The links led me to a conservative talkshow-style blog thing and a youtube.  That was not encouraging enough to continue.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't care enough to dive deeply into this at this time, and those results were not convincing.


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## IRQ Conflict (Apr 20, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> The links led me to a conservative talkshow-style blog thing and a youtube.  That was not encouraging enough to continue.
> 
> I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't care enough to dive deeply into this at this time, and those results were not convincing.


Then it's safe to say your comments are not contributing to the discussion and I cannot take you at face value.


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## dorsetknob (Apr 20, 2017)

rtwjunkie said:


> You realize volcanoes are one of the top greenhouse gas producers,


Mt Erebus in Antartica pumps more than 250,000 Tons of Sulpher dioxide into the atmosphere EVERY YEAR and that is just one Sulpher dioxide pumping volcano


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## R-T-B (Apr 20, 2017)

IRQ Conflict said:


> Then it's safe to say your comments are not contributing to the discussion and I cannot take you at face value.



If I claim to know anything about global warming without proper citation, spot on.  All I've done thus far is point out where basic reason is lacking.  That's contributing in its own right.


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## IRQ Conflict (Apr 20, 2017)

For shits and giggles: 
Iceland’s Volcanic Pollution Dwarfs All of Europe’s Human Emissions


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## dorsetknob (Apr 20, 2017)

and to be noted  those volcanos while currently Active are generaly Dorment ( as in not spewing stuff )
while the main Active Volcano's like
Erebus Popocatepetl Kilauea  Etna Pinatubo and countless others have been Spewing gas and rock lava and Ash EVERY DAY for hunderds of thousands of year


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## rtwjunkie (Apr 20, 2017)

So, I didn't comment on the volcanoes being mentioned earlier because I was trying to lessen any other sources of pollution or warming. On the contrary, as I alluded to earlier, they are necessary for the right amount of greenhouse gasses, which are necessary for keeping heat inside the atmosphere.

I decided to dive in on them because it is precisely why I assert a successful aerosoling to create the clouds necessary to stop global warming will have only a short term effect.

After that, the volcanoes and man made devices will continue to spew heat-retaining pollutants in the air.  This would be very bad in the long run, as no heat would escape. No plants to create oxygen. Dead world.

Their idea might work if humans went back to the Stone Age, and volcanoes stopped.  But they will never stop as long as we have an active iron core and moving tectonic plates. Although, we still would have no plants.

No citations, because most of this is just basic science stuff( and I am fixing dinner).  I think this plan is a bad idea.  Or if it goes forward, I can hope that it is doomed by incompetence.

Feel free to discount any and all of it.


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## R-T-B (Apr 21, 2017)

IRQ Conflict said:


> For shits and giggles:
> Iceland’s Volcanic Pollution Dwarfs All of Europe’s Human Emissions



Despite the questionable source here, this is actually accurate, and I knew this.  The counter-argument is of course it's not the quantity, but the quantity over the norm, like the tipping of a scale.  But I don't know enough to effectively argue either way so I'm not going to get into it.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 21, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Except the Brazillian army could actually put up an effective fight.  They wouldn't win, but they aren't a 3rd world nation by any means.
> 
> If we're going with that line of thought, much easier to just threaten to nuke them.  Or we could just realize that oxygen levels have little to do with global warming.


 I hope you're joking. The US alone could beat the piss out of them. Never mind a joint force set on saving the planet.

Listen if the US played by same rules as say Nazi Germany (No I am not condoning it) Brazils regulars wouldn't last a month. It would end up in a lot of guerilla warfare but, head to head? Game over. Our little adventures in the middle east are because we are trying to do nation building. Not conquer. If we were doing that Iraqs official language would be English by now. Sorry guys but, the only nation that can hang with us at this point is Russia.


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## dorsetknob (Apr 21, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Listen if the US played by same rules as say Nazi Germany (No I am not condoning it) Brazils regulars wouldn't last a month. It would end up in a lot of guerilla warfare but, head to head? Game over.


Trouble is America would level the Amazon with Agent Orange   just so they might see who they were trying to fight

Just Saying (sounds familer eh)


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## R-T-B (Apr 21, 2017)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I hope you're joking. The US alone could beat the piss out of them. Never mind a joint force set on saving the planet.
> 
> Listen if the US played by same rules as say Nazi Germany (No I am not condoning it) Brazils regulars wouldn't last a month. It would end up in a lot of guerilla warfare but, head to head? Game over. Our little adventures in the middle east are because we are trying to do nation building. Not conquer. If we were doing that Iraqs official language would be English by now. Sorry guys but, the only nation that can hang with us at this point is Russia.



Dude, I was looking at it from a realistic perspective not a risk boardgame.  Mostly the fact that we couldn't "beat the piss" out of Vietnam due to mass protests.  I can't imagine what impeachment proceedings would follow the body count of an invasion of Brazil, regardless of it's actual early military success.


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## erocker (Apr 21, 2017)

Guys, on topic please.


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## R-T-B (Apr 21, 2017)

erocker said:


> Guys, on topic please.



Sorry, wasn't my intention to derail.


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## FordGT90Concept (Apr 21, 2017)

dorsetknob said:


> Mt Erebus in Antartica pumps more than 250,000 Tons of Sulpher dioxide into the atmosphere EVERY YEAR and that is just one Sulpher dioxide pumping volcano


Let's have a look at a good resource (USGS) why don't we?
https://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/archive/2007/07_02_15.html


> It's a fact that Kilauea has been releasing more than twice the amount of noxious sulfur dioxide gas (SO2) as the *single dirtiest power plant* on the U.S. mainland.


There's hundreds of coal power plants in the USA alone and they are relatively clean compared to what is in the developing world.

US SO2: 18,867,000 short tons
China SO2: 25,490,000 short tons
Volcanoes have some catching up to do. Source.



> Our studies show that globally, volcanoes on land and under the sea release a total of about 200 million tonnes of CO2 annually. ... Because while 200 million tonnes of CO2 is large, the global fossil fuel CO2 emissions for 2003 tipped the scales at 26.8 billion tonnes. Thus, *not only does volcanic CO2 not dwarf that of human activity, it actually comprises less than 1 percent of that value*.



Also on SO2: many countries (except China) have taken steps to reduce SO2 emissions but it really hasn't had much effect on temperature:





-high altitude SO2 (volcanic) warms the atmosphere but the ash blocks out sunlight cooling the atmosphere (the latter is more powerful).
-low altitude SO2 (human) cools the atmosphere because it's an aerosol.
The latter is more potent than the former.  Net effect: SO2 cools the planet.


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