# Cumulative Ryzen 5000 series TPU review discussion thread



## Khonjel (Nov 5, 2020)

I don't know if I should do this but seeing discussion regarding the reviews spread out in 3 different threads, I don't want my message to be lost. If it breaks any rules I'm sorry.

TPU's reviews are causing a lot of confusion among the masses. So far I've only checked r/hardware subreddit since I think it's the least biased in terms of userbase. Here is the megathread. A lot of people are either calling out TPU's numbers or calling out AMD based on TPU's numbers. Anthony from Linus Tech Tips had this to say about the situation:

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/joj6h8/_/gb8bht2

Calling on @Wizzard to join the discussion.


----------



## W1zzard (Nov 5, 2020)

I think I wrote down the wrong AGESA version number. I used the AMD provided BIOS

Edit: yeah it's 1.1.0.0. I had the BIOS version # correct (3.56), but typed the wrong version from memory. Fixed in all reviews now


----------



## birdie (Nov 5, 2020)

@W1zzard

Actually here's a crazy suggestion: merge all the discussions for all Ryzen 5000 CPUs reviews.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 5, 2020)

mine just shipped.  my bios got a new update today too and its ready to go.  but i still have to wait until nov 18th for 6800 xt...  so my system will still continue to collect dust until then. but it will be nice to get it all built and ready to go other than slotting in the gpu.

best review of the day imo.  its a great day to be a gamer lol  tho i won't like... which they had a 5700x for $329... losing out on two extra cores kinda bummed me out but meh i really dont multitask at all, just game so it doesn't effect me


----------



## Mats (Nov 5, 2020)

Sorry for going a bit offtopic, but has anyone seen a Ryzen 5000 review with *4000 MHz RAM*, aka the sweet spot according to AMD?


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 5, 2020)

Mats said:


> Sorry for going a bit offtopic, but has anyone seen a Ryzen 5000 review with *4000 MHz RAM*, aka the sweet spot according to AMD?












						G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16D-8GVRB - Newegg.com
					

Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16D-8GVRB with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




it would be nice to see a review with this ram.    4000 cas 15... only 170 bucks...


----------



## Mats (Nov 5, 2020)

Yeah, I mean I'm not going to check every review I can find, just hoping that someone happened to stumble upon one.. 

Only checked TPU and GN so far lol.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 5, 2020)

Mats said:


> Sorry for going a bit offtopic, but has anyone seen a Ryzen 5000 review with *4000 MHz RAM*, aka the sweet spot according to AMD?


Since when is that the sweet spot?
The slide that leaked said that 4000MHz would be the same to the 5000-series as 3800MHz was to the 3000-series.
The "sweet spot" was meant to be 3733MHz, but clearly a lot of CPUs could do better than that.


----------



## Mats (Nov 5, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Since when is that the sweet spot?


I don't know how to answer that as you clearly know what I'm referring to.



TheLostSwede said:


> The "sweet spot" was meant to be 3733MHz, but clearly a lot of CPUs could do better than that.


I thought the limit was 4000 MHz, not 3733. (without divider)


----------



## jesdals (Nov 5, 2020)

Well I would like to have seen Infinity fabrics settings on the reviews instead of standard - it should have been in the OC part at least


----------



## Durvelle27 (Nov 5, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> mine just shipped.  my bios got a new update today too and its ready to go.  but i still have to wait until nov 18th for 6800 xt...  so my system will still continue to collect dust until then. but it will be nice to get it all built and ready to go other than slotting in the gpu.
> 
> best review of the day imo.  its a great day to be a gamer lol  tho i won't like... which they had a 5700x for $329... losing out on two extra cores kinda bummed me out but meh i really dont multitask at all, just game so it doesn't effect me


Mine says it won't ship until November 17th


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 5, 2020)

Mats said:


> I don't know how to answer that as you clearly know what I'm referring to.
> 
> 
> I thought the limit was 4000 MHz, not 3733. (without divider)


The "old" sweet spot that is. I don't think AMD provided one for the 5000-series beyond what was in that leaked slide.
Sweet spot doesn't equal the highest possible speed though, as the logic behind the sweet spot was price/performance.
AMD actually never officially mentioned 3800MHz until the leaked slide for the 5000-series appeared afaik.
This is also why most reviewers stopped at 3733MHz and never even attempted 3800MHz.
Some CPUs could never reach above 3733MHz 1:1 either, so I guess this is again why it was the sweet spot.
As such, 4000MHz is to the 5000-series as 3800MHz was to the 3000-series, a possibility, but not guaranteed.
My guess is that the new sweet spot would be 3800MHz, but that you have a good chance to hit 4000MHz.


----------



## dgianstefani (Nov 5, 2020)

My 5950x arriving tomorrow courtesy of scan.


----------



## milewski1015 (Nov 5, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Since when is that the sweet spot?
> The slide that leaked said that 4000MHz would be the same to the 5000-series as 3800MHz was to the 3000-series.
> The "sweet spot" was meant to be 3733MHz, but clearly a lot of CPUs could do better than that.





TheLostSwede said:


> The "old" sweet spot that is. I don't think AMD provided one for the 5000-series beyond what was in that leaked slide.
> Sweet spot doesn't equal the highest possible speed though, as the logic behind the sweet spot was price/performance.
> AMD actually never officially mentioned 3800MHz until the leaked slide for the 5000-series appeared afaik.
> This is also why most reviewers stopped at 3733MHz and never even attempted 3800MHz.
> ...


Thank you! Somebody else that understands!


----------



## Mats (Nov 5, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> The "old" sweet spot that is. I don't think AMD provided one for the 5000-series beyond what was in that leaked slide.


I'm not sure that it's needed. At the very least it looked like a legit slide.


TheLostSwede said:


> Sweet spot doesn't equal the highest possible speed though, as the logic behind the sweet spot was price/performance.


OK now we're down to semantics. I never said that. The sweet spot I'm talking about here is getting as high clock speed as possible while maintaining 1:1:1 divider.


TheLostSwede said:


> AMD actually never officially mentioned 3800MHz until the leaked slide for the 5000-series appeared afaik.
> This is also why most reviewers stopped at 3733MHz and never even attempted 3800MHz.


I highly doubt that reviewers were stopped by the lack of guidance from AMD.


TheLostSwede said:


> Some CPUs could never reach above 3733MHz 1:1 either, so I guess this is again why it was the sweet spot.


This is true tho.


TheLostSwede said:


> As such, 4000MHz is to the 5000-series as 3800MHz was to the 3000-series, a possibility, but not guaranteed.
> My guess is that the new sweet spot would be 3800MHz, but that you have a good chance to hit 4000MHz.


I'm pretty sure that's why AMD wrote "good luck!"


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 5, 2020)

milewski1015 said:


> Thank you! Somebody else that understands!


I guess some of it comes down to reading comprehension. Not everyone understands the minor subtleties of English.
And sometimes companies use "flexible" language to get out of trouble if they can't deliver 100%.



Mats said:


> I'm not sure that it's needed. At the very least it looked like a legit slide.
> 
> OK now we're down to semantics. I never said that. The sweet spot I'm talking about here is getting as high clock speed while maintaining 1:1:1 divider.
> 
> ...


I never said you said anything of the sort. I was simply pointing out that it was AMD's meaning of sweet spot, not specifically how people understood it. You're clearly proving that point right here.

Oh, of course not, but if you look at early reviews, they often stopped at 3733. Case in point "The DDR4-3600 Limit: Should I Try DDR4-3733 Anyway?" 








						Ryzen Above: Best Memory Settings for AMD's 3000 CPUs, Tested
					

Is Ryzen 3000 optimized for DDR4-3200? What if we want more? We examine everything from frequency to rank count to nail down optimal settings.




					www.tomshardware.com
				




As for what will be the right thing to buy in this case, I don't know, but I would guess, based on that slide, that 3800MHz should be quite doable across all CPUs, with 4000MHz being better than 50% chance.


----------



## Mats (Nov 5, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> I was simply pointing out that it was AMD's meaning of sweet spot, not specifically how people understood it.


I still don't even know what AMD "sweet spot" you're referring to, you just made an assumption there I guess.
I wasn't referring to AMD's usage of "sweet spot", I used it based on my memory of that slide.

"Sweet spot" doesn't have to relate to price, even if it's a fairly common usage.


----------



## sneekypeet (Nov 5, 2020)

There was chatter of 2000IF with 4000MHz ram. Tweaktown managed it in the OC section. As to how many CPUs can do it regularly, too early to tell.


----------



## Mats (Nov 5, 2020)

sneekypeet said:


> There was chatter of 2000IF with 4000MHz ram. Tweaktown managed it in the OC section. As to how many CPUs can do it regularly, too early to tell.


Thank you, just what I was looking for.


----------



## W1zzard (Nov 5, 2020)

AMD explained that 2000 IF is achievable by some good silicon CPUs, just like 1900 IF was possible on many Zen 2 CPUs, but not all of them


----------



## MaurizioC (Nov 5, 2020)

I have found a review comparing ddr 3200 vs ddr 4000 for the 5900x. 

fclk:uclk:mlck  should be 1:1:1 for this test.

timings 16-15-15-15-36  for both 3200 and 4000









						Recensione Ryzen 9 5950X e Ryzen 9 5900X: con Zen 3 AMD vince anche nel gaming
					

Test dei processori AMD Ryzen 9 5950X e Ryzen 9 5900X basati su architettura Zen 3. Le nuove CPU Ryzen, grazie a un'architettura totalmente rinnovata, compiono un ulteriore balzo in avanti per quanto riguarda le prestazioni, in particolare quelle single-thread, come i videogiochi.




					www.hwupgrade.it
				




The reviw is in italian (but you can translate with google or bing translator).

The found 1,3% performance difference (average on several use case)


----------



## Mats (Nov 5, 2020)

W1zzard said:


> AMD explained that 2000 IF is achievable by some good silicon CPUs, just like 1900 IF was possible on many Zen 2 CPUs, but not all of them


Exactly. It remains to be seen if the review samples are cherry picked, or how much BIOS can be improved.


----------



## W1zzard (Nov 5, 2020)

Mats said:


> Exactly. It remains to be seen if the review samples are cherry picked, or how much BIOS can be improved.


I vaguely remember seeing somewhere that next AGESA will improve 2000 MHz IF achievability


----------



## milewski1015 (Nov 5, 2020)

Mats said:


> I'm not sure that it's needed. At the very least it looked like a legit slide.


It was a legit slide. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



What people seem to be misunderstanding is that the referenced DDR4-3800 frequency AMD mentions in the slide isn't the sweet spot, it's what you could hope for. People that got lucky with the silicon lottery, had good memory kits, and solid motherboards were able to push their fclk to 1900 and maintain that 1:1:1 ratio while running memory at DDR4-3800. But you see DDR4-3600 recommended time and time again because it's the greatest common factor - the fastest frequency that you're basically guaranteed to be able to run and still maintain that 1:1:1 ratio. In this slide, AMD is stating that DDR4-4000 is what you can hope for as the best case scenario while still maintaining that 1:1:1 ratio. So it makes sense to extrapolate that if the best case scenario has improved, then the sweet spot has improved as well - probably to DDR4-3733 or DDR4-3800


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 5, 2020)

Mats said:


> I still don't even know what AMD "sweet spot" you're referring to, you just made an assumption there I guess.
> I wasn't referring to AMD's usage of "sweet spot", I used it based on my memory of that slide.
> 
> "Sweet spot" doesn't have to relate to price, even if it's a fairly common usage.


I guess you never saw the slide below before then? It's what's normally referred to when talking about Ryzen 3000 memory speeds and why a lot of people are getting hung up on the whole 3733MHz thing.

However, as above, that slide leaked early and that's what I presumed you meant as the sweet spot for the 5000-series even though it doesn't mention sweet spot anywhere.

On top of everything else, this was presumed by a lot of people to be limited to two modules and everyone expected lower performance with four modules or dual rank DIMMs, when it fact either of those seem to boost the performance slightly on Ryzen whereas it does the opposite on Intel afaik.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 5, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16D-8GVRB - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16D-8GVRB with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> ...



I tried to get my cousin to get that RAM for his 5800x that he wants to get, but he was like "No i want 32GB for under $200" so he just went with Trident Z 3200 CAS15 (B-Die) and plans to take it to 3600mhz or higher.

He initially bought that Ripjaw ram but 3600 16-19-19-39 (Not B-Die from what i could find) timings and I said return it and get the Trident Z.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 5, 2020)

Mats said:


> Exactly. It remains to be seen if the review samples are cherry picked, or how much BIOS can be improved.


It improved hugely on the Ryzen 3000 series, although this might have been down to the whole UEFI/AGESA being quite immature at launch. 
From what I've been told, 3866MHz 1:1 is quite possible on more recent 3000-series parts. Not a huge improvement, but AMD hasn't actively done anything to improve it, it's mostly just down to TSMC fine tuning their process.


----------



## Mats (Nov 5, 2020)

milewski1015 said:


> What people seem to be misunderstanding is that the referenced DDR4-3800 frequency AMD mentions in the slide isn't the sweet spot, it's what you could hope for.


Like I said, I NEVER referred to that slide. Thät Låsst Swede has a photographic memory of old slides..
(Or maybe I did, unconsciously.  )



TheLostSwede said:


> I guess you never saw the slide below before then? It's what's normally referred to when talking about Ryzen 3000 memory speeds and why a lot of people are getting hung up on the whole 3733MHz thing.


I clearly remember that latency graph, but since I never got one of those CPU's I never looked into it anymore.



TheLostSwede said:


> From what I've been told, 3866MHz 1:1 is quite possible on more recent 3000-series parts. Not a huge improvement, but AMD hasn't actively done anything to improve it, it's mostly just down to TSMC fine tuning their process.


The IO chip is still the same, right?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 5, 2020)

Mats said:


> Like I said, I NEVER referred to that slide. Thät Låsst Swede has a photographic memory of old slides..
> (Or maybe I did, unconsciously.  )
> 
> 
> ...


Fair enough, but please don't abuse the Swedish language like that.

Maybe not quite the same, as I just heard that the new X570 boards that are launching are going to use a new revision of the chipsets. That's how Asus did their passively cooled board.
Since the chipset and I/O die are the same, that suggests that there has also been some improvements done over at GloFo.


----------



## Mats (Nov 5, 2020)

MaurizioC said:


> The found 1,3% performance difference (average on several use case)


Grazie.
Those three games tested..  7 - 9 % in one game is a bit surprising, I was expecting less. Only one game tho.



TheLostSwede said:


> Fair enough, but please don't abuse the Swedish language like that.


Sorry about that. I can see that you spend a lot of time reading English as you seem to forget that that the language I was abusing wasn't Swedish. 



TheLostSwede said:


> Maybe not quite the same, as I just heard that the new X570 boards that are launching are going to use a new revision of the chipsets. That's how Asus did their passively cooled board.
> Since the chipset and I/O die are the same, that suggests that there has also been some improvements done over at GloFo.


I for one like that. There's no need for a new chipset, the old one got everything you need for mainstream desktop.


----------



## milewski1015 (Nov 5, 2020)

Mats said:


> Like I said, I NEVER referred to that slide. Thät Låsst Swede has a photographic memory of old slides..
> (Or maybe I did, unconsciously.  )


I think LostSwede and I assumed you were referring to the slide W1zz and I both linked. That's the only official slide from AMD I can think of that mentions DDR4-4000, so we were confused (I was anyway) as to where you were getting "4000 MHz RAM, aka the sweet spot according to AMD?". As Swede mentioned, I think part of the issue is the different interpretations of "sweet spot": price to performance sweet spot, max 1:1:1 ratio sweet spot, etc.


----------



## birdie (Nov 5, 2020)

The Linus Tech Tips channel which I used to watch occasionally, is now openly lying to cover Ryzen 5000 price increase:






Yeah, the Ryzen 7 3700X which was introduced at $330 and now costs on average around $310 (and occasionally is being sold for as low as $250), has suddenly become $90 more expensive according to Linus Tech Tips (with over 12 million subscribers) - the channel has openly become very pro-AMD recently to the point where they criticize or/and underplay anything released by NVIDIA/Intel: "I'm DONE covering for NVIDIA - RTX 3070 Review".

And Linus conveniently forgot about the existence of 3600 which was introduced at $200 (and now can be have for less that $160). Yeah, "just a measly $50 price increase" when reality it's starts from 50%. Oh, and the Ryzen 5 3600X costs $250, not $300! AMD does love fat margins!


----------



## Mats (Nov 5, 2020)

milewski1015 said:


> I think LostSwede and I assumed you were referring to the slide W1zz and I both linked. That's the only official slide from AMD I can think of that mentions DDR4-4000, so we were confused (I was anyway) as to where you were getting "4000 MHz RAM, aka the sweet spot according to AMD?". As Swede mentioned, I think part of the issue is the different interpretations of "sweet spot": price to performance sweet spot, max 1:1:1 ratio sweet spot, etc.


Yeah it was clearly my own interpretation of what I actually read before in said slide. Now I get how "sweet spot" can get twisted after that older slide.


----------



## W1zzard (Nov 5, 2020)

Mats said:


> The IO chip is still the same, right?


It is exactly the same, we checked with AMD, also mentioned in all reviews near the core config page


----------



## birdie (Nov 5, 2020)

W1zzard said:


> It is exactly the same, we checked with AMD, also mentioned in all reviews near the core config page



It's exactly the same meaning it's still based on the 12nm node? I wonder how they've managed to shake off a few watts in idle.


----------



## W1zzard (Nov 5, 2020)

It is 100% identical physically.. from the same assembly line and same production run. All power improvements come from the 7 nm CCDs, and of course software power management, which of course can affect IO die power, too.


----------



## HD64G (Nov 5, 2020)

AMD Ryzen 9 5900X + Ryzen 9 5950X Dominate On Linux Review - Phoronix
					






					www.phoronix.com
				






			https://openbenchmarking.org/embed.php?i=2011040-FI-AMDRYZEN976&sha=c4b0d35106fe&p=2
		


Seeing that chart in the link above makes me think that AMD does offer much higher vfm in every one of their new Zen3 processors apart from the 5600XT ($250 would make it invinsible for gaming PCs) when compared to Zen2 MSRP pricing. And discounts for the latter will come round later for the new CPUs as usual.


----------



## Rahnak (Nov 5, 2020)

birdie said:


> The Linus Tech Tips channel which I used to watch occasionally, is now openly lying to cover Ryzen 5000 price increase:
> 
> View attachment 174538
> 
> ...



Relax man, the 3700X in that screen is a typo, they meant the 3800X. If you look further ahead in the video, that's the CPU they used for comparisons.


----------



## birdie (Nov 5, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> Relax man, the 3700X in that screen is a typo, they meant the 3800X. If you look further ahead in the video, that's the CPU they used for comparisons.



3600X for $300 is also a typo? Too many convenient typos in a single slide, man. Way too many. Also, did you listen to what Linus said? If I'm not mistaken he talked about the 3700X.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Nov 5, 2020)

birdie said:


> The Linus Tech Tips channel which I used to watch occasionally, is now openly lying to cover Ryzen 5000 price increase:
> 
> View attachment 174538
> 
> ...



Imo linus is a tit, can't watch him


----------



## Rahnak (Nov 5, 2020)

birdie said:


> 3600X for $300 is also a typo? Too many convenient typos in a single slide, man. Way too many. Also, did you listen to what Linus said? If I'm not mistaken he talked about the 3700X.



Well, it is a wrong value, the 3600X did launch at $249, I don't really believe it would be intentional. Doesn't make sense to lie about launch prices, everyone can google that. I gave the video another quick look and didn't hear any mention of the 3700X by name. In the offending slide he even says "these all coincide with their Ryzen 3000 series namesakes in terms of core count and market position". 3700 and 3800 do not coincide in name. And all the slides after use the 3800XT.

I'll agree with the AMD bias though.


----------



## mouacyk (Nov 5, 2020)

MaurizioC said:


> I have found a review comparing ddr 3200 vs ddr 4000 for the 5900x.
> 
> fclk:uclk:mlck  should be 1:1:1 for this test.
> 
> ...


If the reviewer had bothered to tune the 4000 overclock, the performance uplift should be consistent.  The fluctuating results are indicative of a lazy primary-timing overclock, that is also potentially unstable and doing error correction on the CPU.


----------



## MaurizioC (Nov 5, 2020)

mouacyk said:


> If the reviewer had bothered to tune the 4000 overclock, the performance uplift should be consistent.  The fluctuating results are indicative of a lazy primary-timing overclock, that is also potentially unstable and doing error correction on the CPU.


tune what?

they did not perform any cpu overclock just set the memory speed and IF speed keeping same timings to perform a clean comparative having the memory speed as the only difference.

The results to me are indicative that some workload are sensitive to memory bandwith while other are not


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 5, 2020)

I've noticed a difference in ram-timings testing between Ryzen CPUs. On the Zen 2 tRC is 48, on Zen 3 it's 73. This makes me wonder: What are other seconderies etc? Is tWR, tRFC, tFAW the same on all setups? This can impact performance quite a bit in many games and certain apps.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 5, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Good going IMHO, last year the Intel fans were talking up 1080p performance, now it's 720p, or price.
> Oh the Comedy.
> 
> And of course it's a hard ask to jump from 3Xxx to 5Xxx, in price, 3Xxx are still on the shelf , should they sell em for nowt, pass em out?!, Good business.
> ...


----------



## MaurizioC (Nov 5, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> I've noticed a difference in ram-timings testing between Ryzen CPUs. On the Zen 2 tRC is 48, on Zen 3 it's 73. This makes me wonder: What are other seconderies etc? Is tWR, tRFC, tFAW the same on all setups? This can impact performance quite a bit in many games and certain apps.




where?


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 5, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> I've noticed a difference in ram-timings testing between Ryzen CPUs. On the Zen 2 tRC is 48, on Zen 3 it's 73. This makes me wonder: What are other seconderies etc? Is tWR, tRFC, tFAW the same on all setups? This can impact performance quite a bit in many games and certain apps.




yes please tell us where you got this info.  the only person I know capable of these timings is @1usmus and his calculator is not updated yet.  also buildzoid knows a lot about ram, but those are only two i know of.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Nov 6, 2020)

W1zzard said:


> AMD explained that 2000 IF is achievable by some good silicon CPUs, just like 1900 IF was possible on many Zen 2 CPUs, but not all of them



Can someone tell me if there is an Infinity link between the two CCD's or not ?
If not then there is still a bottleneck for the damn IO die causing slow downs still from spill over from CCD to CCD communication.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 6, 2020)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> Can someone tell me if there is an Infinity link between the two CCD's or not ?
> If not then there is still a bottleneck for the damn IO die causing slow downs still from spill over from CCD to CCD communication.



But the CCDs are unified now though I thought?


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Nov 6, 2020)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> But the CCDs are unified now though I thought?



that's CCX (core complexes) inside the chiplet
CCD is the chiplet it self
what I'm asking is if the two chiplets are linked
like how the CCD is linked to the I/O die, with an Infinity link.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 6, 2020)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> Can someone tell me if there is an Infinity link between the two CCD's or not ?
> If not then there is still a bottleneck for the damn IO die causing slow downs still from spill over from CCD to CCD communication.



Going by this slide, it looks like all the CCX-to-CCX communication has to go through the I/O die.

I'm not sure why AMD implied there is a direct CCX-to-CCX infinity link in the memory overclocking slide with that triangle thing?? I guess that was supposed to be referring to a synchronised FCLK across all chiplets or something.






EDIT: Apparently the 5900X has one fully-enabled 8 core CCX, plus a second CCX with four of the cores disabled.

_A single CCD, with one eight-core CCX and one four-core CCX, now lives underneath the hood of the Ryzen 9 5900X. This is configured with four of the cores of the second CCD disabled in the Ryzen 9 5900X, and this new approach of centralizing eight cores at a time, rather than just four, helps the processor lead the pack in lightly threaded games like Counter-Strike and League of Legends._ - PCMag Australia


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 6, 2020)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> Can someone tell me if there is an Infinity link between the two CCD's or not ?
> If not then there is still a bottleneck for the damn IO die causing slow downs still from spill over from CCD to CCD communication.



Ofc there is. Seems a refresher is needed here. 

On Zen 2 we have many CCX combined that make up a CCD. Each CCD connects to the IOD. Connecting to the IOD didn't change. What changed are the CCX arrangement. There is now only a single 8 core max CCX inside each CCD, which then connects to said IOD. The improvement is in the inter-CCX latency since there is now only one CCX all eight cores yoou don't get that latency penalty between individual CCX's within a CCD.

Zen 2 CCX make up is 4 core per CCX. And threads would/could jump between CCX causing latency penalties. Thus with a single 8 core CCX most thread situations would fit inside a single CCD or 8 core CCX. And as mentioned above, the 5900x maintains this with its maxed 8 + 4 arrangement.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 6, 2020)

MaurizioC said:


> where?


Look at the clockspeed/overclockingsection on the review, find the ram speed/timings screenshot. All Zen 2 I can find run tRC 48, all Zen 3 run 73. That alone can impact a couple of percent. This makes me wonder what the other timings are.

5600X:


			https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-5-5600x/images/overclocking-2.jpg
		


3600: 


			https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-5-3600/images/overclocking-2.jpg
		


W1zzard: Maybe you can shed some light on this?


----------



## W1zzard (Nov 6, 2020)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> Can someone tell me if there is an Infinity link between the two CCD's or not ?
> If not then there is still a bottleneck for the damn IO die causing slow downs still from spill over from CCD to CCD communication.


There is no direct IF link between CCDs. Everything has to go through the IO die


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 6, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> yes please tell us where you got this info.  the only person I know capable of these timings is @1usmus and his calculator is not updated yet.  also buildzoid knows a lot about ram, but those are only two i know of.


Look at for instance the 3600 and 5600X reviews, look at clockspeed/OC and check the ram speed/timings screenshot. tRC is 25 higher on the 5600X, 5800X and 5900X review vs Ryzen 3600 and 3700X. Seems 3600XT has the slower tRC as well. New ram modules with different XMP-settings perhaps?


----------



## TumbleGeorge (Nov 6, 2020)

Is will at least some 5900 be able to be unlocked to 5950? I fantasize that there may be perfectly suitable cores that are locked only because of the price difference.


----------



## W1zzard (Nov 6, 2020)

am i on to something here?

Does anyone know another site who tested at GPU limited? 1440p+ with Ultra






But not much to see here


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 6, 2020)

W1zzard said:


> am i on to something here?
> 
> Does anyone know another site who tested at GPU limited? 1440p+ with Ultra
> 
> ...


It seems like Ampere has problems at lower resolutions and scales poor the lower the res. 4k is superb, but I have seen several reviews where a 2080ti beat some of the Ampere-lineup at 1080 or lower res in certain games, but that never happends at 4k.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Nov 6, 2020)

W1zzard said:


> There is no direct IF link between CCDs. Everything has to go through the IO die



Thanks 
Hey can you post what settings are used on the graphics.
Most of the graphs just say average fps. 
in a few other reviews like the "3rd gen Threadripper  deep dive" it was listed and it's hard to compare with anything out it.


----------



## R0H1T (Nov 6, 2020)

TumbleGeorge said:


> Is will at least some 5900 be able to be unlocked to 5950?


Those days are long gone, unlocking cores died with *Zosma* although unlocking GPU is still a thing for Radeons.


----------



## W1zzard (Nov 6, 2020)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> Hey can you post what settings are used on the graphics.


Ultra, but using custom scene, not the integrated benchmark





Hmmm. Looks like if you play the integrated benchmark and not the actual game, then Ryzen has a better lead


----------



## Mats (Nov 6, 2020)

I found this interesting.









						AMD Robert Hallock promises Ryzen 5000 undervolting with new functionality - VideoCardz.com
					

AMD Director of Technical Marketing – Robert Hallock – provided more details on Ryzen 5000 series compatibility, upcoming features, and upgrade opportunities for users with AMD 500 series motherboards. AMD lifts the curtain on Ryzen 5000 series Yesterday AMD released its Ryzen 5000 series...




					videocardz.com


----------



## sepheronx (Nov 6, 2020)

Wow, that GN review really puts that 5600X into quite a strong lead in gaming.

This really is a solid CPU.


----------



## MaurizioC (Nov 6, 2020)

from techpowerup's reviews the 5000x series seems hotter than the 3000x series. I see higher temperatures


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 6, 2020)

Mats said:


> I found this interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See how AMD uses the term "sweet spot" there? It's about price/performance.


----------



## W1zzard (Nov 6, 2020)

MaurizioC said:


> from techpowerup's reviews the 5000x series seems hotter than the 3000x series. I see higher temperatures


Any chance you looked at the (blue) OC numbers?


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 6, 2020)

Why are posts getting deleted in this thread?


----------



## MaurizioC (Nov 6, 2020)

W1zzard said:


> Any chance you looked at the (blue) OC numbers?



you are right at stock the 5600x is colder than 3600x but the 5800x is hotter than 3800xt... I wonder wheter amd will release a 65w 5700x


----------



## W1zzard (Nov 6, 2020)

MaurizioC said:


> wheter amd will release a 65w 5700x


That would be my guess, too. It seems they want to keep the upgrade paths clear this time, so no changes in TDP or other hardware requirements



MaurizioC said:


> but the 5800x is hotter than 3800xt


2°C, which is almost nothing. These on-die sensors are not 100% accurate, and there are manufacturing variances, too


----------



## Mats (Nov 6, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> See how AMD uses the term "sweet spot" there? It's about price/performance.


I hesitated posting it, just to avoid more discussion about that. For the fifth time, my choice of words had nothing to do with AMD. 
FYI, I'm already informed about that, see yesterdays posts. I'm not completely låsst.


----------



## W1zzard (Nov 6, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Why are posts getting deleted in this thread?


This is the "TPU review discussion thread", not for GN


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 6, 2020)

Mats said:


> I hesitated posting it, just to avoid more discussion about that. For the fifth time, my choice of words had nothing to do with AMD.
> FYI, I'm already informed about that, see yesterdays posts. I'm not completely låsst.


I know, just saying that it is how most people use that term, including AMD.
The rest we worked out already.
It's still not funny though...

Good catch otherwise, plenty interesting information there.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 6, 2020)

W1zzard said:


> This is the "TPU review discussion thread", not for GN



I'm okay with that, but please give a heads up next time. It just saves me looking for non-existent comments and thinking I'm going crazy. Ta.


----------



## MaurizioC (Nov 6, 2020)

W1zzard said:


> That would be my guess, too. It seems they want to keep the upgrade paths clear this time, so no changes in TDP or other hardware requirements
> 
> 
> 2°C, which is almost nothing. These on-die sensors are not 100% accurate, and there are manufacturing variances, too



the 5800x is way hotter than a 3700x, I would wait and see the 5700x.

My 3700x works fine and it did not became slower yesterday so no need to replace


----------



## R0H1T (Nov 6, 2020)

MaurizioC said:


> you are right at stock the 5600x is colder than 3600x but the 5800x is hotter than 3800xt... I wonder wheter amd will release a 65w 5700x


Why is everyone so hung up on x700x it's a model number FFS! If the next gen (zen3) APUs will be on the same 5xxx naming scheme it's unlikely they'll be a 5700x, if you want a cheap upgrade just buy a 5800 non X when it's released. It's not like you're getting something different or inferior.


----------



## MaurizioC (Nov 6, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Why is everyone so hung up on x700x it's a model number FFS! If the next gen (zen3) APUs will be on the same 5xxx naming scheme it's unlikely they'll be a 5700x, if you want a cheap upgrade just buy a 5800 non X when it's released. It's not like you're getting something different or inferior.


the 3700x is  a 65w 8 core. Not an apu.
the 5800x is  a105w 8 core.

I would like to see a 65w zen3 8 core... call you as you like but it fills between 5600x and 5800x as it did in 3xxx lineup..


----------



## Mats (Nov 6, 2020)

W1zzard said:


> This is the "TPU review discussion thread", not for GN


I wouldn't mind if anyone removed that Linus rant, also offtopic. As if LTT doesn't have their own forum.


----------



## R0H1T (Nov 6, 2020)

There will definitely be a 65W or even lower TDP 8c/16t CPU, the zen2 APU are starting with 47xxG & so there's a good chance that zen3 APU will be called 57xxG & so a like for like upgrade from 3700x - 5700x is not coming. It's speculation at this point but I'd prefer if AMD doesn't make redundant (or confusing) naming schemes a feature since they already undid part 1 of the previous sh!tshow.


----------



## MaurizioC (Nov 6, 2020)

5700x as name for the 3700x successor and 5700g as name for the apu version would not be confusing to me... anyway we will see


----------



## NoJuan999 (Nov 6, 2020)

I also would like to see a 5700x (65 W / 8 core - 16 thread) released.
That would be a perfect CPU to upgrade my 3700x in a year or two.

And since I'm in no rush to upgrade, if they release one sometime in 2021 that is fine by me.


----------



## Khonjel (Nov 8, 2020)

Now tech jesus is reporting that 4x ram sticks gives faster fps than 2x sticks.









Although still doesn't explain LinusTechTips numbers. Their kit is 2x 8GB G.Skill DDR4 (no model mentioned) 3600 Mhz CL 14-15-15-35.

GamersNexus default/stock kits are 4x8GB as mentioned in the video.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Nov 8, 2020)

Khonjel said:


> Now tech jesus is reporting that 4x ram sticks gives faster fps than 2x sticks.
> Although still doesn't explain LinusTechTips numbers. Their kit is 2x 8GB G.Skill DDR4 (no model mentioned) 3600 Mhz CL 14-15-15-35.
> GamersNexus default/stock kits are 4x8GB as mentioned in the video.



I wonder if that Trend will continue If/when Threadripper Zen 3 releases.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 8, 2020)

does anyone know if this ram here is  dual rank or single rank?









						G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16D-8GVRB - Newegg.com
					

Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C16D-8GVRB with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




that is what i own ^









						Crucial Ballistix 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600 Desktop Memory - Newegg.com
					

Buy Crucial Ballistix 3600 MHz DDR4 DRAM Desktop Gaming Memory Kit 32GB (16GBx2) CL16 BL2K16G36C16U4B (BLACK) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




this is what my buddy owns ^


wendell apparently said at end of GN video that 16gb single rank sticks perform best... so I just need to figure out what me and my friend have, 16gb single or dual rank sticks.

@R-T-B @TheLostSwede


----------



## TumbleGeorge (Nov 8, 2020)

It's normal for dual channel controllers 2*16>4*8. Look for recommendations in motherboard guidelines. There is something like that:





When used 2 dimms you got support for fast RAM. When used 4 dimms speed of RAM is limited by the capabilities of the controller to lower frequencies. This has been around for a long time and is known to all who are interested in the technical details. It's not bad that people who didn't know it before find various videos in which they show the result visually.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 8, 2020)

im trying to find specific answer to something though

steve in that gn video says single rank 2x16gb performs best of all. video below i timestamped it for you.  but other people are telling me only dual rank 16gb exsits, so did steve mess up his wording?  im guessing my ram kit i linked 2x16gb is dual rank?

edit timestamp didnt work - its at 23:53


----------



## Chomiq (Nov 8, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> im trying to find specific answer to something though
> 
> steve in that gn video says single rank 2x16gb performs best of all. video below i timestamped it for you.  but other people are telling me only dual rank 16gb exsits, so did steve mess up his wording?  im guessing my ram kit i linked 2x16gb is dual rank?
> 
> edit timestamp didnt work - its at 23:53


This is a TPU discussion thread, not a GN thread.


----------



## Khonjel (Nov 8, 2020)

Chomiq said:


> This is a TPU discussion thread, not a GN thread.


Oh come on. Don't start that. Lynx is discussing on the video that is related to Ryzen 5000 series. When I created this thread I envisioned people to discuss TPU review discrepancy by comparing/contrasting with other third party review data. Not for people to shut down discussion based on thread name pedantics.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 8, 2020)

Khonjel said:


> Now tech jesus is reporting that 4x ram sticks gives faster fps than 2x sticks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I pointed out elsewhere, four sticks being faster than two sticks isn't news as such, it just seems to give you even better performance with the 5000-series.








						Ryzen Above: Best Memory Settings for AMD's 3000 CPUs, Tested
					

Is Ryzen 3000 optimized for DDR4-3200? What if we want more? We examine everything from frequency to rank count to nail down optimal settings.




					www.tomshardware.com


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 8, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> As I pointed out elsewhere, four sticks being faster than two sticks isn't news as such, it just seems to give you even better performance with the 5000-series.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




steve/wendell seem to say 2x16gb sticks is faster than 4x8gb sticks though.  thats what im trying to understand.  i timestamped it above


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 8, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> does anyone know if this ram here is  dual rank or single rank?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Taiphoon burner will tell you.



TumbleGeorge said:


> It's normal for dual channel controllers 2*16>4*8. Look for recommendations in motherboard guidelines. There is something like that:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would say that ASRocks recommendations are very outdated by now and have been proven to be very conservative.
AMD's memory controller isn't Intel's memory controller and it's being proved time and time again that the "traditional" Intel limitations simply do not apply to AMD.
I've been running four sticks of single rank DIMMs at 3800MHz C16 for about a year now without any issues.



lynx29 said:


> steve/wendell seem to say 2x16gb sticks is faster than 4x8gb sticks though.  thats what im trying to understand.  i timestamped it above


They also pointed out that single rank 16GB modules are rare. Also don't expect to find any high-speed 16GB single ranked modules.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 8, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> steve/wendell seem to say 2x16gb sticks is faster than 4x8gb sticks though.  thats what im trying to understand.  i timestamped it above





TheLostSwede said:


> Taiphoon burner will tell you.
> 
> I would say that ASRocks recommendations are very outdated by now and have been proven to be very conservative.
> AMD's memory controller isn't Intel's memory controller and it's being proved time and time again that the "traditional" Intel limitations simply do not apply to AMD.
> ...



Doesn't this video prove nothing? Steve compared 2 DIMM single rank B-die to 4 DIMM single rank B-die. We already know that 2 DIMM DR is superior to 2 DIMM SR in actual performance, and 2 DIMM SR is all show and no go, great for benching and not much else.

What I would want to see is a comparison of 2DIMM DR (2x16) and 4DIMM SR (4x8); I have a feeling 4x8 might come out on top, if barely, but only in raw speeds at the higher end of frequencies (beyond 1:1).

The only respectable 16GB DIMM currently that *could* be single rank is Micron's new Rev.B, the first 16Gb IC that can actually hold its own against if not beat 8Gb Rev.E.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 8, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Doesn't this video prove nothing? Steve compared 2 DIMM single rank B-die to 4 DIMM single rank B-die. We already know that 2 DIMM DR is superior to 2 DIMM SR in actual performance, and 2 DIMM SR is all show and no go, great for benching and not much else.
> 
> What I would want to see is a comparison of 2DIMM DR (2x16) and 4DIMM SR (4x8); I have a feeling 4x8 might come out on top, if barely, but only in raw speeds at the higher end of frequencies (beyond 1:1).
> 
> The only respectable 16GB DIMM currently that *could* be single rank is Micron's new Rev.B, the first 16Gb IC that can actually hold its own against if not beat 8Gb Rev.E.


Can you find a pair of high performance 16GB DR DIMMs? I did a quick search and the fastest I could find was 2666MHz. Most seem to be ECC DIMMs as well.
I'm sure people would happily test your scenario, if it wasn't for the shortage of such modules.


----------



## Selaya (Nov 8, 2020)

Arbeitsspeicher (RAM) Speicher mit Typen: DDR4, Packungsgröße ab 16GB, Speichertakt ab 3200MHz, Column Address Strobe Latency (CL): 14, Row-to-Column Delay (tRCD): 14, Rank: dual Preisvergleich Geizhals EU
					

Preisvergleich und Bewertungen für Arbeitsspeicher (RAM) Speicher mit Typen: DDR4, Packungsgröße ab 16GB, Speichertakt ab 3200MHz, Column Address Strobe Latency (CL): 14, Row-to-Column Delay (tRCD): 14, Rank: dual




					geizhals.eu


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 8, 2020)

Selaya said:


> Arbeitsspeicher (RAM) Speicher mit Typen: DDR4, Packungsgröße ab 16GB, Speichertakt ab 3200MHz, Column Address Strobe Latency (CL): 14, Row-to-Column Delay (tRCD): 14, Rank: dual Preisvergleich Geizhals EU
> 
> 
> Preisvergleich und Bewertungen für Arbeitsspeicher (RAM) Speicher mit Typen: DDR4, Packungsgröße ab 16GB, Speichertakt ab 3200MHz, Column Address Strobe Latency (CL): 14, Row-to-Column Delay (tRCD): 14, Rank: dual
> ...


Yes, all dual rank, not single rank.

Just as a side note, it seems like the continuing tweaks by AMD has improved DRAM latency somewhat, as I'm down by almost 0.5ns. 
Yes, in reality it's nothing, but it's consistent and I haven't changed any settings.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 8, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> They also pointed out that single rank 16GB modules are rare. Also don't expect to find any high-speed 16GB single ranked modules.



I think Steve actually messed up, I think he meant 16gb dual ranked are the sweet spot and fastest.  since single rank 16gb sticks don't even really exist in the gamer consumer markets

mine is dual rank 16gb, so i should see these 10% benefits as well, very very nice.    very happy with my 5600x now


----------



## nguyen (Nov 8, 2020)

Buildzoid has explained this awhile ago, 4x 8GB or 2x 16GB RAM configs will perform the same at the same frequency and timing. The 2x16GB config is a sweet spot because it's slightly cheaper and it could work on cheap Daisy Chain motherboard where the memory traces might prevent 4x8GB config to work at high frequency.

Almost all X570 motherboard are Daisy Chain, even the cheap ones.

I wonder if high performance RAM config coupled with PCIe Gen4 might have contributed to the improvement in FPS, whereas we see very little performance gain with PCIe Gen3 GPUs and CPUs (such as 2080Ti and Intel 10th gen).


----------



## MaurizioC (Nov 8, 2020)

Khonjel said:


> Now tech jesus is reporting that 4x ram sticks gives faster fps than 2x sticks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i believe this is because 2x8 gb is single rank and 4x8 gb is dual ranl-

2x16 should be the best option since it is dual rank and with 2 stick only to reach higher frequency/stability



lynx29 said:


> does anyone know if this ram here is  dual rank or single rank?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am interested on those crucial, can you open CPUZ on SPD page and check the ranks?


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 8, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Yes, all dual rank, not single rank.
> 
> Just as a side note, it seems like the continuing tweaks by AMD has improved DRAM latency somewhat, as I'm down by almost 0.5ns.
> Yes, in reality it's nothing, but it's consistent and I haven't changed any settings.



Interesting findings there. I updated to 1100B BIOS on my Asus the other day, no change. 53-54GB read and copy, 66.9ns at 3733 16-19-19. Maybe it's a Gigabyte thing, or maybe it's a Master thing. It's a nice high end board in terms of memory overclocking, even though it has 4 DIMMs.

In terms of 2x16GB kits, there are a lot of decent *DR* kits out there. Just G.skill alone has a Trident Neo and a Trident RGB kit, both 2x16 and 16-16-16 B-die at 3600. But those are DUAL rank 8Gb IC kits and nothing new. You can't make 16GB *SR* with 8Gb ICs like B-die/Rev.E/CJR.

This is the *SR* kit with 16GB DIMMs I was talking about, using Micron's new 16Gb Rev.B. It's very different from the usual DR B-dies:









						Crucial Ballistix 32GB Kit (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3600 Desktop Gaming Memory (Black) | BL2K16G36C16U4B | Crucial.com
					

Buy Crucial Ballistix 32GB Kit (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3600 Desktop Gaming Memory (Black) BL2K16G36C16U4B. FREE US Delivery, guaranteed 100% compatibility when ordering using our online tools.




					www.crucial.com
				




Crucial is doing a lot of crazy things with these new 16Gb ICs. BZ claims they're even better than 8Gb Rev.E (a welcome surprise given how horrible every other 16Gb IC has been up till now).

SR 16GB sticks (as is normal for a 16Gb IC)
DR 32GB sticks (as is normal)
but also SR 8GB sticks (where they disable part of each memory chip to make it essentially 8Gb, while retaining superior performance of Rev.B).
Basically, very impressive, but the 16GB DIMMs are SR sticks so unless in 4x16GB kit, they should theoretically suffer like 2x8GB B-die does, making them possible a worse choice for Ryzen than the usual DR 16GB Rev.E sticks (because we can't make use of the excellent frequency scaling of Rev.B).

I can't get my hands on these right now, far too expensive over here. But $150 USD is a very reasonable MSRP.


----------



## Provin915 (Nov 8, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> In terms of 2x16GB kits, there are a lot of decent *DR* kits out there. Just G.skill alone has a Trident Neo and a Trident RGB kit, both 2x16 and 16-16-16 B-die at 3600. But those are DUAL rank 8Gb IC kits and nothing new. You can't make 16GB *SR* with 8Gb ICs like B-die/Rev.E/CJR.



I don't really understand much about the single or dual rank RAM. This is maybe a stupid question, but multi-channel is not the same as dual rank right? I was planning to get G.Skill Trident Z RGB 2X16GB 3600Mhz CL16 RAM with my Ryzen 5600X. Will that be alright? I only know that Ryzen prefers fast RAM. I'm currently on 2X8GB 3600Mhz Trident Z and it's fast without any problems (3700X CPU).


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 8, 2020)

Provin915 said:


> I don't really understand much about the single or dual rank RAM. This is maybe a stupid question, but multi-channel is not the same as dual rank right? I was planning to get G.Skill Trident Z RGB 2X16GB 3600Mhz CL16 RAM with my Ryzen 5600X. Will that be alright? I only know that Ryzen prefers fast RAM. I'm currently on 2X8GB 3600Mhz Trident Z and it's fast without any problems (3700X CPU).



There are two 3600CL16 Trident RGBs. One is 16-16-16, one is 16-19-19. If it's the latter, I'd only get it if it's less than $150USD. Both are dual rank.

1 rank per channel (little worse actual performance, better OC at the top end):

2x8GB SR with 8Gb (B-die, CJR, Rev.E)
2x8GB SR with intentionally disabled Rev.B
2x16GB SR with 16Gb Rev.B
2 rank per channel (little better actual performance, lower achievable OC usually beyond 4000):

2x8GB DR with 4Gb (D-die, E-die)
4x4GB SR with 4Gb (D-die, E-die)
2x16GB DR with 8Gb (B-die, CJR, Rev.E)
4x8GB SR with 8Gb (B-die, CJR, Rev.E)
2x32GB DR with 16Gb Rev.B
4x16GB SR with 16Gb Rev.B
I'm guessing you probably have something in the former category right now, and either of the 32GB RGB kits is going to be in the latter.


----------



## Pumper (Nov 8, 2020)

I don't get why RAM manufacturers don't list their memory rank in specs, like Kingston does, and yeah, Kingston has 2x16GB 3200 and higher kits in both dual and single rank, i.e.:

single rank: 2x16 3200 cl16 HX432C16FB4K2/32, 2x16 3600 cl18 HX436C18FB4K2/32
dual rank: 2x16 3200 cl16 HX432C16FB3K2/32 , 2x16 3466 cl16 HX434C16FB3AK2/32 

Dual rank is more expensive (at least over here in Europe). Would be nice to know what other brands are offering, i.e. if the G Skill F4-3600C16D-32GVKC kit is dual rank or not.


----------



## Provin915 (Nov 8, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> There are two 3600CL16 Trident RGBs. One is 16-16-16, one is 16-19-19. If it's the latter, I'd only get it if it's less than $150USD. Both are dual rank.
> 
> 1 rank per channel (little worse actual performance, better OC at the top end):
> 
> ...



THANKS for the explanation man. I will definitely keep this in my mind when I'm actually gonna buy my new parts. Cheers!


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 8, 2020)

Pumper said:


> I don't get why RAM manufacturers don't list their memory rank in specs, like Kingston does, and yeah, Kingston has 2x16GB 3200 and higher kits in both dual and single rank, i.e.:
> 
> single rank: 2x16 3200 cl16 HX432C16FB4K2/32, 2x16 3600 cl18 HX436C18FB4K2/32
> dual rank: 2x16 3200 cl16 HX432C16FB3K2/32 , 2x16 3466 cl16 HX434C16FB3AK2/32
> ...


Because then they can't change the IC supplier without telling us... 
Yes, this is indeed very frustrating and I guess this is also why a lot of people are having problems getting the right kits when they buy more RAM for their system.


----------



## TumbleGeorge (Nov 8, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> AMD's memory controller isn't Intel's memory controller and it's being proved time and time again that the "traditional" Intel limitations simply do not apply to AMD.


Table is for AMD. Recommended from AMD! ASRock just presents it in a user-friendly form. All speeds above recommended are OC.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 8, 2020)

So,

2x16 = Dual Rank ?
4x8 = Single Rank ?

But because they yield a total of 4 ranks (2 Ranks per channel?) they yield essentially the same performance, and the best performance for Ryzen 5000?


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 8, 2020)

Khonjel said:


> Oh come on. Don't start that. Lynx is discussing on the video that is related to Ryzen 5000 series. When I created this thread I envisioned people to discuss TPU review discrepancy by comparing/contrasting with other third party review data. Not for people to shut down discussion based on thread name pedantics.



I've already had at least three posts deleted in the last few days for this reason. Some in this very thread because I discussed GN benchmarks.
It's highly discouraging when we just want to talk about one of the hottest CPU releases in a decade but the comments that don't directly relate to the thread titles are being culled.


----------



## Mats (Nov 8, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I've already had at least three posts deleted in the last few days for this reason. Some in this very thread because I discussed GN benchmarks.
> It's highly discouraging when we just want to talk about one of the hottest CPU releases in a decade but the comments that don't directly relate to the thread titles are being culled.


I agree, but I remember seeing someone posting a GN review here and said like "When it comes from GN, you know it's legit" and it got pulled. That's basically asking for it.  
Otherwise I haven't seen that many removed links, maybe because they're.. removed..


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 8, 2020)

Mats said:


> I agree, but I remember seeing someone posting a GN review here and said like "When it comes from GN, you know it's legit" and it got pulled. That's basically asking for it.
> Otherwise I haven't seen that many removed links, maybe because they're.. removed..



Maybe. The crux of the issue is that each reviewer is a small fish in a large tech pond, and each have their own strengths. Usually LinusTechTips is best for overall product information, Techpowerup is best for written articles and the forum, GamersNexus is best for comprehensive details and TechYesCity is great for value and used market insight. Especially for an interesting product it's normal to watch a whole bunch of reviews and cross-examine. I could go into a rant but the fact is that it's normal and we're not a bunch of wife cheaters if we mention other reviews. All I'm saying.


----------



## Zach_01 (Nov 8, 2020)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> So,
> 
> 2x16 = Dual Rank ?
> 4x8 = Single Rank ?
> ...


Yes both of those configurations are 2 ranks per channel and probably will perform the same. The difference between them is the ranks per stick. That may affect higher speed capability (?)
Or maybe is just a module compatibility issue with Ryzen and not really a rank configuration...


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 9, 2020)

Heavens these Zen 3 processors are powerful. One of the games I benchmarked was Feed The Beast Ultimate 1.4.7 which I've been playing for years. The low-down is that it's a poorly optimised modpack for Minecraft 1.4 (which is already a poorly optimised game) and it craves single-core performance and cache. After upgrading from the Ryzen 3 3100 to the Ryzen 5 5600X my average FPS is up 65% and minimum FPS has tripled. That unified L3 cache works tremendously well.


----------



## Selaya (Nov 9, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Yes, all dual rank, not single rank. [ ... ]


Huh.
I was under the impression you(r post) said _not a lot of dual-rank_ memory at some point.
Blame Freud, I guess.


----------



## Khonjel (Nov 10, 2020)

TL;DW Not unique to Zen 3. Same double-digit performance uplift on Intel CPUs as well.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 10, 2020)

Khonjel said:


> TL;DW Not unique to Zen 3. Same double-digit performance uplift on Intel CPUs as well.


Not surprised...! Dual rank vs single, right?


----------

