# Water cooling in Define R4



## SamGriffiths (Jul 14, 2013)

Hey, so I'm looking into water cooling in a Fractal Design Define R4, I know I can fit a 240mm Rad in the front, I don't have any free Drive bays to put a Reservoir in so I would have to use an internal one.

Is this okay for a loop:







Red is the Pump

Green is the Rad

Blue is the Reservoir

I think I'm going to use this as a Reservoir.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-320-BP&groupid=962&catid=2133

And this as the Rad.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-044-BX&groupid=962&catid=1523&subcat=1525

Or maybe getting this as a pump/reservoir combo:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-008-TL

But I don't know about anything else, like the pump, the tubing (I would like so red tubing if possible) or the waterblock (I'm using 1150) I'm going to use, I think I could easily fit a 50mm thick rad due to the massive amount of space, any suggestions would be very helpful.


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## Nordic (Jul 14, 2013)

It would work. You do want the resiovor above the pump so make sure of that.

I have rad in the same place and was able to fit a 80mm alphacool.


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 14, 2013)

How is your loop done?

I was thinking of getting this (https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-008-TL) which would hopefully solve the problem of the resiovor being on the level as the pump.

Is this the Red you have? http://www.scan.co.uk/products/240mm-alphacool-nexxxos-monsta-radiator.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jul 14, 2013)

I think rad-cpu-pump-res-rad is better, cool water straight from rad goes to cpu, but maybe it does not matter once the water temp reaches equilibrium.


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## Grnfinger (Jul 14, 2013)

tigger said:


> I think rad-cpu-pump-res-rad is better, cool water straight from rad goes to cpu, but maybe *it does not matter once the water temp reaches equilibrium*.



this...

loop order has no relevance


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 14, 2013)

So what about this, 






Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta 240 80mm thick > CPU Block > D5/Reservoir.


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 14, 2013)

Okay, I think I've made my mind up. I'm going to set up the loop as it is in the picture in my previous post, I'm going to use a XSPC RayStorm CPU block, XSPC HighFlex Hose 1/2" ID, 3/4" OD, XSPC D5 & XSPC Acrylic Tank Reservoir and 6x XSPC G1/4" to 1/2" ID, 3/4" OD Compression Fitting. Also for fans I'm going with NF-F12s I think, do I need to push/pull since the rad is so thick? Anyone know of some other fans that are as good and not so, erm, brown?


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## MT Alex (Jul 14, 2013)

You'd definitely need push/pull for that rad.  Gentle Typhoons are better radiator performers than the Noctuas, with some pretty good testing behind that statement:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1230070/...ar-cf-v12hp-vs-noctua-nf-f12/40#post_19744622

If I was getting that type of rad I wouldn't use anything but 38mm fans, specifically Panaflo L1s.


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 14, 2013)

What about push/pull with BitFenix Spectre PRO PWM 120mm, I'm also thinking about maybe a 60mm Rad, I've been told there isn't much difference in performance at all.


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## d1nky (Jul 14, 2013)

ive got to stop looking at watercooling threads, that alphacool rad looks great. and fairly cheap!

and that R4 looks a dream to work with, only thing id suggest is getting angled fittings. and make sure the hose doesnt get in the way of components.

that diagram looks as the hose will run where the card will be and maybe get in the way of ram!

a slight alteration will allow a cylinder res above the pump


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks, I've gone for a pump/res combo so the positioning isn't a problem, and I'm getting Corsair LP Ram so it's not a problem.


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## MT Alex (Jul 14, 2013)

Pretty sure he was talking about the hose being in the way of your GPU, unless you don't have one, in which case I'd ditch the water cooling idea and get one.


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah, I'm getting a GPU, a Asus 760, I will just curve the pipe around it =P


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## d1nky (Jul 14, 2013)

SamGriffiths said:


> Yeah, I'm getting a GPU, a Asus 760, I will just curve the pipe around it =P



hose, especially 1/2 inch stuff doesnt bend that easy, and it will want to bend the way its wants.

thats why i put another route suggestion, plus its looks cleaner.

the last thing you want is a hose resting against the card.

and you can still add another res even if ya gone for the combo, more water is better.


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## 20mmrain (Jul 14, 2013)

What I have found is this case fairly good for water cooling. I used an D5 XSPC Bay Reservoir and 2x EK 240XT radiators.... 1 in the top and 1 in the front.

Here are pictures of my build before I added the second 240Xt rad upfront.





The 240XT is really the largest rad you want in the case. It will still allow you to mover the HDD bay forward and therefore not have to go through the pain of hiding the HDD behind the Motherboard tray.
I will try to take pictures of what my build looks like now with my second larger rad up front.


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 14, 2013)

That looks really cool, I plan on mounting the HDD in the Optical Drive tray with a mount made by BitFenix.

I'm thinking about maybe getting a 90 degree corner fitting and using that to round the GPU.


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## Norton (Jul 14, 2013)

This is my R4 with a 240 rad up top and an extra 120 in the back just before I finished it up:








*Note- didn't want to give up the front drive bays right now but there is plenty of room for another 240 if you pull them out


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 14, 2013)

Okay, I think what I'm going to do is get the loop I've posted, but with a XSPC RX240 and a single set of fans, then see if it's not preforming well enough, if it isn't I'll add another set of fan, but either way I think I'm going to totally remove my drive cages to make space for the pump. So this is what I'm going to be buying:



Spoiler



XSPC D5 Vario Pump & XSPC Acrylic Tank Reservoir

XSPC RX240

XSPC HighFlex Hose 1/2" ID, 3/4" OD

XSPC RayStorm CPU WaterBlock

6xXSPC G1/4" to 1/2" ID, 3/4" OD Compression Fitting

4xXSPC G1/4" 90° Rotary Fitting

I'm wondering is I should get SP120 fans over the Bitfenix.

2xBitFenix Spectre PRO PWM 120mm


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## Grnfinger (Jul 14, 2013)

Norton said:


> This is my R4 with a 240 rad up top and an extra 120 in the back just before I finished it up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That looks very nice and tidy, had no idea you could get that much rad in to that case.
I'm looking for a small case to house my old MV Gene and 3570K, this might be it.


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## Norton (Jul 14, 2013)

Grnfinger said:


> That looks very nice and tidy, had no idea you could get that much rad in to that case.
> I'm looking for a small case to house my old MV Gene and 3570K, this might be it.



Thanks! 

Wasn't the easiest thing I ever did but I did manage to get the 240 rad in there 

I like 20mm rain's pic with the extra 120mm in the front too (may be a future upgrade for me)...


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 14, 2013)

Hmm, well, to set up this water cooling rig it would cost £350, right now I'm getting a GTX 760, with the money I would spend on water cooling I could get a GTX 780, or I could get 480GB of super fast SSD, it's a nice idea and it looks fun to do, but it costs to much and the risk of it leaking is there too,  I think I'm just going to get a BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro 2 and be done with it.

Maybe in the future, thanks for all your help though.


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## Grnfinger (Jul 14, 2013)

leaks are nothing to worry about if done correctly.
Water cooling can be carried from pc to pc so it's a long term investment, but yes it's a costly one.

The raystorm kit is a good starter and can be added and modded to cool just about anything you can think of.
The all in one coolers are a ok for medium overclocking or silent HTPC imo.

Good luck in what ever you choose


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## d1nky (Jul 14, 2013)

i done my loop for about £180

no leaks, no hassle (i lie) and its a great investment!

but youre right, what ive spent and going to spend on water would get me a 7970 to xfire

and all that thread and help for nothing, cmon lol


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah, I'm going to do it later =P, I think I'm just not going to overclock and keep the stock cooler until I can work up the extra money for the loop, thanks again guys.


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 14, 2013)

Now, I've found a way to lower the price to £200 by getting a kit from XSPC, https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-156-XS, what I'm going to do is buy a couple of Rotary Fitting, Compression Fitting and pipes that fit the Compressions. I'm also thinking about getting some Mayhems Pastel - Red Coolant 1L, has anyone used this stuff?


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## RCoon (Jul 14, 2013)

SamGriffiths said:


> Now, I've found a way to lower the price to £200 by getting a kit from XSPC, https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-156-XS, what I'm going to do is buy a couple of Rotary Fitting, Compression Fitting and pipes that fit the Compressions. I'm also thinking about getting some Mayhems Pastel - Red Coolant 1L, has anyone used this stuff?



I've got mayhems pastel white coolant, works fine, no sedement like crap within the piping, bit overpriced, but worth it for my colour theme, all comes pre-biocided too. The OCUK Raystorm 240kit is good value for money. I used it as a baseline and added to it. Pump/Res combo units are a great idea for cases with too many 5.25" bays like mine.
I'm going to replace most of my radiator fans with the 2.64 static pressure Bitfenix Spectres, so it goes with my case theme more. Current fans are just over 3.0 static pressure, though I have no issues with heat dissipation, so I'll +1 the bitfenix fans, they'll work just fine, just not as well as the higher SP fans out there like the stock H100 ones (I'm currently using).


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## Nordic (Jul 15, 2013)

SamGriffiths said:


> How is your loop done?
> 
> I was thinking of getting this (https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-008-TL) which would hopefully solve the problem of the resiovor being on the level as the pump.
> 
> Is this the Red you have? http://www.scan.co.uk/products/240mm-alphacool-nexxxos-monsta-radiator.



If you are curious, this is my system.






Everyone has their own way of doing a watercooling loop. I had a similar configeration to how you originally planned at first. Then I decided I wanted an apogee drive II and wanted to cut out my resivor as I did not like having it. My alphacool rad has a big enough tank to use as a resivor anyways, although it is a real pain to get air out of properly. I also reach equilibrium temps reeallly quickly which is fine as it cools both my 2500k and 7970 very well.

It seemed as though you wanted this rad after I mentioned it, then maybe changed your mind. If you do get this rad you will want a push pull configeration. I use corsair sp's which are pretty quiet. If I want silence I turn them down to 7v with my fan controller.


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## Grnfinger (Jul 15, 2013)

d1nky said:


> i done my loop for about £180
> 
> no leaks, no hassle (i lie) and its a great investment!
> 
> ...



Could you post a better shot of that case?

I'm looking at powder coating a chassis red and would like a clean shot of your case




SamGriffiths said:


> Now, I've found a way to lower the price to £200 by getting a kit from XSPC, https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-156-XS, what I'm going to do is buy a couple of Rotary Fitting, Compression Fitting and pipes that fit the Compressions. I'm also thinking about getting some Mayhems Pastel - Red Coolant 1L, has anyone used this stuff?



That's a good way to start out... little by little till you end up with a closet full of wtfomg
The raystorm kit is what I'm getting for my Son's first time water rig
will have a build log coming for his build soon


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## ne6togadno (Jul 15, 2013)

Grnfinger said:


> Could you post a better shot of that case?
> 
> I'm looking at powder coating a chassis red and would like a clean shot of your case



his whole story
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183505


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## d1nky (Jul 15, 2013)

Grnfinger said:


> Could you post a better shot of that case?
> 
> I'm looking at powder coating a chassis red and would like a clean shot of your case
> 
> ...





ne6togadno said:


> his whole story
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183505



i didnt even realise you was talking about me until i clicked the link haha!

reds a good colour, i have a red mouse, red lit keyboard and a red mug.  oh and a red pc! 

if ya going to do the whole modding, id suggest the powder coating with lacquer or similar. and paracord for sleeving. this braid isnt to good after ya move it around a bunch of times.


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 15, 2013)

james888 said:


> If you are curious, this is my system.
> http://i.imgur.com/q8Lju5B.jpg
> 
> Everyone has their own way of doing a watercooling loop. I had a similar configeration to how you originally planned at first. Then I decided I wanted an apogee drive II and wanted to cut out my resivor as I did not like having it. My alphacool rad has a big enough tank to use as a resivor anyways, although it is a real pain to get air out of properly. I also reach equilibrium temps reeallly quickly which is fine as it cools both my 2500k and 7970 very well.
> ...



Hmm, I'm getting the RS 240 because it's a lot cheaper and it should cool the CPU just as well, I think I'm also going to get SP120 PWM fans.


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 17, 2013)

ack again... What's he best piping to use? 7/16ID? 1/2ID?


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## RCoon (Jul 17, 2013)

SamGriffiths said:


> ack again... What's he best piping to use? 7/16ID? 1/2ID?



Not a huge difference at all, both will fit on 1/2" barbs. I use 7/16", 1/2" is obviously slightly larger, so the loop would fit slightly more coolant in it.


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 19, 2013)

Now then, again I really want to water cool my CPU.

However, for the price to do it, it would cost more than getting a 500 GB SSD, I wish it was cheaper.

Is an AX240 any worse than an RX? Because it's £40 cheaper, I've heard that the AX has more fins, but I'm using Corsair SP120 Performance so that shouldn't be a problem.


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## 20mmrain (Jul 19, 2013)

SamGriffiths said:


> ack again... What's he best piping to use? 7/16ID? 1/2ID?



Using 1/2 Regular barbs you can use either 7/16id x 5/8od Tubing or 1/2id x 5/8od tubing. However for a tighter fight the 7/16id x 5/8od Tubing is preferable. You will not have to depend on your hose clamps as much for protection. It's almost like having an extra level of protection.

But if you choose to rather go with compression fittings than you must match up the tubing with the fittings. Example 7/16id x 5/8od tubing goes with 7/16 Compression fittings. Its because it has to make a tight seal.


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## Nordic (Jul 20, 2013)

SamGriffiths said:


> Hmm, I'm getting the RS 240 because it's a lot cheaper and it should cool the CPU just as well, I think I'm also going to get SP120 PWM fans.



For just a cpu it is plenty. I am also cooling a gpu though.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 20, 2013)

james888 said:


> If you are curious, this is my system.
> http://i.imgur.com/q8Lju5B.jpg
> 
> Everyone has their own way of doing a watercooling loop. I had a similar configeration to how you originally planned at first. Then I decided I wanted an apogee drive II and wanted to cut out my resivor as I did not like having it. My alphacool rad has a big enough tank to use as a resivor anyways, although it is a real pain to get air out of properly. I also reach equilibrium temps reeallly quickly which is fine as it cools both my 2500k and 7970 very well.
> ...



Did you skin a snake to sleeve your power cables?


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## Nordic (Jul 20, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Did you skin a snake to sleeve your power cables?
> 
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...a/Red_milk_snake.JPG/300px-Red_milk_snake.JPG



Sure... Newegg shell shocker deal on a 850w silver psu. I go with function/price over form. Although I have a newer black gold rated xfx psu I will psu I will be putting in here. Mostly because its newer, and I will retire the cougar psu to the crunching machines.


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 21, 2013)

Sorry to keep posting about random things, but, what's the best 240mm rad for low RPM fans like the SP120 Quite in push/pull?


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## Kaynar (Jul 21, 2013)

SamGriffiths said:


> Sorry to keep posting about random things, but, what's the best 240mm rad for low RPM fans like the SP120 Quite in push/pull?



Something like the HWLabs SR1 series, low FPI rads generally.


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## SamGriffiths (Jul 21, 2013)

What about the EX 240? Also, is there any problem with having 3 120mm fans on a 240mm rad? Because I've found a really good deal on 3xSP120 but one more is half the price again.


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