# Should i buy an SSD?



## Musician (Nov 28, 2015)

hello everybody
question about the SSDrives... How does it help gamers?  i mean, for what should i buy one?
all i do is game\music so should i buy that drive ?
i have a 1TB seagate "7200rpm'' and i planing to buy a 60gb SSD for "C" files


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## 95Viper (Nov 28, 2015)

Musician said:


> i planing to buy a 60gb SSD for "C" files



Is C:\ going to have Windows OS?  I would think bigger... it will need it.
I do a min. of 120gb for an OS drive.  Unless, you want to take time to move some things.
This is just from my personal observations of trying 60gb SSDs for the OS drive.


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## rtwjunkie (Nov 28, 2015)

Well, yes, simply for the snappiness of windows operation and other programs you use, as well as boot speed, yes you should get an SSD!! Highly recommend.

With the size of games coming out lately, you'd be hard pressed to put any games on that size SSD, though.

If that's the setup you will have, then install the games on that 1TB Seagate.  In which case, you'll see no benefit from the SSD.

With SSD still being rather expensive, they are not cost effective for more than a few games.  In  any case the only real benefit with using SSD for games is a few seconds quicker loading times at startup and between levels.

As @95Viper said, if you get only 60GB, and have music, I would advise moving your Libraries to another drive after Windows installation.


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## Pill Monster (Nov 28, 2015)

Musician said:


> hello everybody
> question about the SSDrives... How does it help gamers?  i mean, for what should i buy one?
> all i do is game\music so should i buy that drive ?
> i have a 1TB seagate "7200rpm'' and i planing to buy a 60gb SSD for "C" files


SSD's are best used as an OS drive, not so much for gaming....   So yep SSD for C drive, u can throw your games on the Seagate... 





95Viper said:


> Is C:\ going to have Windows OS?  I would think bigger... it will need it.
> I do a min. of 120gb for an OS drive.  Unless, you want to take time to move some things.
> This is just from my personal observations of trying 60gb SSDs for the OS drive.


Windows takes up less than 15GB, a 60GB should be ample.... actually I use a 60GB SSD as well.

If a system managed pagefile is used with tons of RAM or if hibernation is enabled for example, then yeah OS install will become bloated.....but it can be trimmed.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 28, 2015)

In this situation, if you have an Intel system, I would recommend using the 60GB SSD as a cache drive for the 1TB Seagate.


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## trog100 (Nov 28, 2015)

without a swap file my windows 10 install is around 36 gig with all the basic stuff i need.. it started off at around 16 gig.. my "basic stuff" has added another 20 gig..

i have it on a 126 size ssd.. i keep it this way so as i can make quick C drive system disk back ups.. 

so with care 64 gig is big enough.. in fact i have an old del browsing machine with win 10 on a 64 gig ssd drive and a win10 to go install on a 32 gig usb drive..

its worth doing because (games apart) you get an easy to back up  snappy fast loading operating system..

126 is ideal but 64 gig will do.. 

trog


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## Pill Monster (Nov 28, 2015)

newtekie1 said:


> In this situation, if you have an Intel system, I would recommend using the 60GB SSD as a cache drive for the 1TB Seagate.


Why would he do that when he can install the entire OS on the SSD?   Cache drives are old school, they were used when SSD's were only a few GB in size and couldn't hold a Windows installation.

***Windows caches everything in RAM anyway ....check the cached amount in TM after an hour or 2.....


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## Musician (Nov 28, 2015)

thanks for all that, guys.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 28, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> Why would he do that when he can install the entire OS on the SSD?   Cache drives are old school, they were used when SSD's were only a few GB in size and couldn't hold a Windows installation.
> 
> ***Windows caches everything in RAM anyway ....check the cached amount in TM after an hour or 2.....



Because then the data most used will be cached to the drive.  This include the windows installation as well as the extra things to fill the 60GB.  That way the whole 60GB is used and providing benefit instead of just a portion of it for the OS and the rest wasted.


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## Pill Monster (Nov 28, 2015)

newtekie1 said:


> Because then the data most used will be cached to the drive.  This include the windows installation as well as the extra things to fill the 60GB.  That way the whole 60GB is used and providing benefit instead of just a portion of it for the OS and the rest wasted.


That was true when SSD's first hit the market, as they were only around 8-20GB.   But now, if the OS and all various program files total 40GB of space on a 60GB SSD,  what are you caching from the HDD?  There's nothing left to cache.
The remaining files on the HDD will be games or music etc, which don't benefit from fast access the way applications do.  
As soon as a file is opened on the HDD it's cached into RAM anyway by the system file manager.....and these days PC's have RAM to burn....


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## 95Viper (Nov 28, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> Windows takes up less than 15GB, a 60GB should be ample.... actually I use a 60GB SSD as well.
> 
> If a system managed pagefile is used with tons of RAM or if hibernation is enabled for example, then yeah OS install will become bloated.....but it can be trimmed.



Yep, that is basically what I was saying.
Windows may take a 15gb (home)or 20gb (pro) at install... but, it will grow to use more as time rolls by.
Other than, hibernation file and pagefile; if the OP uses the default directories and does not do cleanup every once in a while, move them, or change the pointers to another drive,  the default storage folders (music, documents, pictures, videos, log files, saved updates, etc.) may eat up space in no time.
If he adds language packs, Metro apps, app data, the numerous file\data caches\files, and other goodies to the default locations, more space eaten up.
Some programs even default to C: and give no option for anything else.
Considering the slight price difference in the 60gb and larger sizes... it is my opion the OP should look to go larger and be prepared for the unforeseen.


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## taz420nj (Nov 28, 2015)

trog100 said:


> without a swap file my windows 10 install is around 36 gig with all the basic stuff i need.. it started off at around 16 gig.. my "basic stuff" has added another 20 gig..
> 
> i have it on a 126 size ssd.. i keep it this way so as i can make quick C drive system disk back ups..
> 
> ...



Wow.  I basically got called an idiot for suggesting 120GB as the minimum in that other thread - with that thread's OP claiming you need 100GB just for windows..  I've also been running a 120GB for years with no issues. 90% of the crap you fill it up with can be either deleted or moved to a network share.

Anyways, did you do an upgrade or clean install of 10?  If you upgraded, it's wasting about 10-12GB holding on to the reversion files..  Plus there are at least a couple shadow copies/restore points created as you do updates and install programs, plus the update backups and whatnot.  Run disk cleanup/advanced/system and you'll most likely free up at least a few GB.  It shouldnt be that big.  Fresh installs once cleaned up shouldn't be more than 20 WITH the swap file, and when I create the restore image (Reflect) it compresses down to about 9GB.


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## Musician (Nov 28, 2015)

np i will buy a Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB
at christmas


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## newtekie1 (Nov 28, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> That was true when SSD's first hit the market, as they were only around 8-20GB.   But now, if the OS and all various program files total 40GB of space on a 60GB SSD,  what are you caching from the HDD?  There's nothing left to cache.
> The remaining files on the HDD will be games or music etc, which don't benefit from fast access the way applications do.
> As soon as a file is opened on the HDD it's cached into RAM anyway by the system file manager.....and these days PC's have RAM to burn....



I don't know about you, but I enjoy faster loading times in my games.

Oh, and just FYI, my laptop which has no games at all installed on it and no personal files at all, is currently using 57GB on the 128GB SSD.


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## Jetster (Nov 28, 2015)

I use to make coffee waiting for BF3 to load a map. Now with an SSD I don't have time for coffee 

Right now is the time to buy an SSD


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## manofthem (Nov 28, 2015)

@Musician you're going to love having windows and programs installed on an ssd. Going from hdd to ssd is beautiful, so much quicker and more responsive. 

I finally got an ssd in the wife's rig after having windows on a hdd for years, and it was glorious! Such a difference


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## Jetster (Nov 28, 2015)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...0-free-assassins-creed-syndicate-game.217933/


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## Musician (Nov 28, 2015)

manofthem said:


> @Musician you're going to love having windows and programs installed on an ssd. Going from hdd to ssd is beautiful, so much quicker and more responsive.
> 
> I finally got an ssd in the wife's rig after having windows on a hdd for years, and it was glorious! Such a difference



yea yea it is a last decision.. i'm gonna buy that drive


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## Pill Monster (Nov 28, 2015)

Jetster said:


> I use to make coffee waiting for BF3 to load a map. Now with an SSD I don't have time for coffee
> 
> Right now is the time to buy an SSD


That's odd because the slow map loading in BF3 isn't due to the HDD.
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=B...wSlZVoyqGKPgmAX60ICQAQ#q=bf3+map+loading+slow

I have installed Farcry3, FarCry4, BF3, 4, Crysis 3 GTAV ARMA 2, 3, Fallout 3, NV, Fallout 4, Shogun Total War, Mass Effect 2, 3 on SSD, RAID 0 and a 2TB Seagate.

There's barely any difference bar a few secs loading across all of them.....the slowest was GTA V which took about 45 secs...that was on the Seagate.  



Just my experience ofc.... if you got money to burn sure get an SSD for data...otherwise it's not worth the cost imo.




newtekie1 said:


> I don't know about you, but I enjoy faster loading times in my games.
> 
> Oh, and just FYI, my laptop which has not games at all installed on it and no personal files at all, is currently using 57GB on the 128GB SSD.


Great, so even with the extra 20GB of VMware everything still fits on a nice little 64GB SSD.
Good to know.


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## Jetster (Nov 28, 2015)

BF3 maps went from 180 sec to 32 sec after installing the game on an SSD

I remember this because I timed it


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## Ebo (Nov 28, 2015)

I had my first SSD back when 60GB on SATA II was the top of the pop, it was a Mushkin and it just ran everything over, it was really a nice disk. Then I bourght a Samsung 830 on 128GB SATA III also a very nice disk, just a little bit too small. Now I have a 512GB Crucial MX100, and that 1 meet all my demands as of today, its sturdy, has the place, and most of all its reliable.


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## Ikaruga (Nov 28, 2015)

Yes, get a 120GB SSD and use it for the OS and some apps/game you use the most. It will be night and day compared to the HDD and even the very cheap ones like the HyperX Furry (do not get the V300Now !) will do just fine. I found caching with SSD to be useless, and I experimented a lot, but perhaps I missed something.


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## trog100 (Nov 28, 2015)

i keep a usb drive (or drives) for what i call real storage.. i set out to make my machine solid state only and i see a positive advantage in keeping the main operating system drive small and separate.. a fresh install of windows is quite small.. 

i do have larger 256 and 1T solid state drives for games and other stuff and they could fill up pretty quickly with the size of later release games coming in over 40 gig.. 

i see no reason why my 36 gig of operating system plus every day apps is gonna grow much.. on a 126 ssd it has loads of spare space.. 

i might be a bit odd in keeping my C drive small and easy to back up but i think its a good idea.. 

at present larger solid state drive are still quite pricey.. which i suppose is the only reason those ancient noisy spinning disk things still exist.. but in my case they only exist outside my machine and not in it.. he he..

ssd drives are tiny things and the average PC case could be a lot smaller quieter  and cooler without all the room for large ancient mechanical drives built in.. 

the modern idea which i think is a good one is to stack ssd drives on the back of the motherboard tray.. i to be honest i really cant see the point in tons of mechanical drive bays built into a case.. having it all external makes more sense.. 

trog


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## Musician (Nov 28, 2015)

trog100 said:


> i keep a usb drive (or drives) for what i call real storage.. i set out to make my machine solid state only and i see a positive advantage in keeping the main operating system drive small and separate.. a fresh install of windows is quite small..
> 
> i do have larger 256 and 1T solid state drives for games and other stuff and they could fill up pretty quickly with the size of later release games coming in over 40 gig..
> 
> ...


got it.
فَهـِمـت


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## newtekie1 (Nov 28, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> Great, so even with the extra 20GB of VMware everything still fits on a nice little 64GB SSD.
> Good to know.



Nope, no VMWare on that machine.  And once formatted a and you account for the ~500MB Windows uses for the extra partitions, you only end up with about 55GB of useable space.   

But it doesn't really matter since the OP said he is now getting a 256GB drive.


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## Pill Monster (Nov 28, 2015)

newtekie1 said:


> Nope, no VMWare on that machine.  And once formatted a and you account for the ~500MB Windows uses for the extra partitions, you only end up with about 55GB of useable space.
> 
> But it doesn't really matter since the OP said he is now getting a 256GB drive.


55GB is still plenty of room, a normal system drive doesn't take up more than around 40GB max..
If you got more than 40GB then either you have VMware or Photoshop or Visual Studio or some other huge suite on the drive, or you got stuff on there which doesn't need to be....like movies. 
Even a recovery image is only ~3GB.


Semantics anyhow like you said as ther OP has made his decision......


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## newtekie1 (Nov 28, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> 55GB is still plenty of room, a normal system drive doesn't take up more than around 40GB max..If you got more than 40GB then either you have VMware or Photoshop or Visual Studiot or some other huge suite on the drive, or you got stuff on there which doesn't need to be....like movies.
> Semantics anyhow like you said as ther OP has made his decision.



They do when you actually use them.  Windows likes to just accumulate stuff.  I don't even have that many programs install on it.  Windows itself likes to grow to near 30GB over time.


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## Pill Monster (Nov 28, 2015)

newtekie1 said:


> They do when you actually use them.  Windows likes to just accumulate stuff.  I don't even have that many programs install on it.  Windows itself likes to grow to near 30GB over time.


That's is not true.  I do Windows deployment and I know exactly how much space is needed. 
Windows doesn't just magically grow by 30GB either. It grows because you've put files on the drive, if you say no then my guess is your laptop is OEM with bloatware on it.

Semantics anyhow as you said OP hs decided...so no point carying on.


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## taz420nj (Nov 28, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> That's is not true.  I do Windows deployment and I know exactly how much space is needed.
> Windows doesn't just magically grow by 30GB either. It grows because you've put files on the drive, if you say no then my guess is your laptop is OEM with bloatware on it.



I do too, which is how I know whats required..  But he didn't say it grows BY 30GB he said it grows TO 30GB -  which DOES happen over time if left unchecked.  However that is just due to it accumulating garbage like old restore points, update backup data, temp files, etc..  All of which can be dumped with Disk Cleanup.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 28, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> That's is not true.  I do Windows deployment and I know exactly how much space is needed.
> Windows doesn't just magically grow by 30GB either. It grows because you've put files on the drive, if you say no then my guess is your laptop is OEM with bloatware on it.
> 
> Semantics anyhow as you said OP hs decided...so no point carying on.



I did Windows deployments at Microsoft on systems in the labs. And newtekie is right. We always left a little more space on the OS partition for that exact reason.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 28, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> That's is not true. I do Windows deployment and I know exactly how much space is needed.
> Windows doesn't just magically grow by 30GB either. It grows because you've put files on the drive, if you say no then my guess is your laptop is OEM with bloatware on it.



By OEM I assume you mean using the factory Install.  Which isn't the case.  I reformat every OEM computer I get.  There is no bloatware on it.  In fact it hasn't even been installed all that long, I reformatted this machine back in June.

The Widows folder alone on this laptop alone is 26GB.  Another 6GB for hyberfil, and 4GB for pagefile(which is only that small because I manually set it, if I left it on auto it would be 16GB, because Windows like use uselessly big page files). Microsoft Office is another 2GB(including MSOcache).  Adobe CS Suite is another 7GB. Oh and another 5.6GB for the Windows 10 pre-load files. I've got a few other small programs installed(Filezilla Client, O&O Defrag, Daemon Tools Lite, Classic Shell, Kodi, Notepad++, and Filezilla) but that's it.  I've got no documents on this computer(except 3 work related excel spread sheets on the desktop), no pictures, no movies, no media or data files at all actually.  Just Windows and a few programs I use.

Can I go through and manually trim some of this down?  Sure, but Disk Cleanup won't do it automatically.  I could manually delete the MSOcache folder, I know that is safe because I'm a computer tech. I could delete the Windows 10 pre-load files, Disk Cleanup will actually do this, but you have to uninstall the update related to it before it will show up to be deleted in Disk Cleanup.  And how many average users know this?

But more to the point, if I had a 64GB SSD, and it was setup up as just the system drive in the OP's computer, there would be no way I could install any games on it.  Heck, I'd be close to limit to just install some other programs.  So I'd have to install them on the HDD.  And a good half of the SSD would go to waste on Windows related files that I'll likely never use.  WinSxS goes largely unused, but is one of the largest space hogs, same thing with the Installers folder.  In fact both of those folders are almost never  used, but are the two biggest folders in the Windows directory.  Why waste SSD space on them?  That is the beauty of using the SSD has a cache instead of an independent system drive.  The caching algorithm recognizes files aren't being used, and other files are used more often, and puts the files used more often on the SSD and leaves the files used less often on the HDD.  That is why I suggest an SSD 64GB or smaller should be used as a Cache drive.  Yeah, if you have a 128GB SSD, use it as your system drive(I do on my laptop), but 64GB is better used as a Cache.



taz420nj said:


> All of which can be dumped with Disk Cleanup.



Saddly that isn't entirely true.  Nothing automatic will get rid of the install files left in the Installer folder.  The Disk Cleanup usually clears a couple hundred MB of Windows Update Cleanup, but nothing substantial.  The WinSxS and Installers folders in Windows just grow the more you use the system.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Nov 28, 2015)

I have my Os installed on a 256gb ssd. I have next to nothing else installed besides windows and a couple small programs and I am using 42gb. I have done a complete disk cleanup a few days ago. I am still at 42gb.


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## vectoravtech (Nov 28, 2015)

my lenovo g780 has been on a samsung 840 pro and its been working great.


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