# Dual channel memory causing excessive bsod, but single ram is running fine



## debojitk (Jun 18, 2012)

Hi,
I have 2 2gb kingston installed in dual channel mode in a msi p45 neo board.
Those were not bought as pair but were running fine for past 3 years.
Recently I installed Win 7 and few days after that installation it started giving random blue dump.
earlier i had 8600 gt board with a standard power supply.
Yesterday I upgraded the board to zotac gtx 560, and the psu to corsair GS500.
Still it was giving bule dump, and even after a fresh installation the blue dump did not stop.

Then I ran P95 stress testing with ram testing, and found the workers stopped, and soon the system resulted in blue dump.
The bsods are some time MEMORY_MANAGEMENT, some times PAGE_FAULT_IN_NON_PAGED_AREA.

*Then I removed one ram stick and tested both stick in standalone mode, and in standalone mode both are running fine without any error.*With single ram the windows experience index is* 5.5*, where as in dual channel mode it is *7.1*.
How should I test the rams and find out the original criminal, i mean the ram or the mobo.
Please help.
Thanks in advance.
ram kingston ddr2 800 mhz.


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## CaptainFailcon (Jun 18, 2012)

sounds like the memory controller in the cpu is unstable try upping the CPU-NB voltage to about 1.25-1.3
if that fails to help I would suspect that the cpu is starting to degrade


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## debojitk (Jun 18, 2012)

*should i suspect the cpu or the mobo/ram*

Thanks for your reply.

My CPU is C2Q 8200 and it is just 3 yrs old.
The hack you suggested I will apply today evening and see if it works.
I just wanted to know that increasing cpu nb voltage is safe or not.
Should I try changing the mobo slots.


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## CaptainFailcon (Jun 18, 2012)

errhmm I assumed it was amd because you failed to fill in you'r system specs disregard what I said 
I would reseat the cpu first > pull the cooler off > remove the cpu from the socket and reinstall it and use fresh thermal paste


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## LGV (Jun 18, 2012)

Try other rams or/and your ram in other pc. 
Maybe you can get RMA for thet CPU if under 3 years old.

For stable PC, please buy better PSU-s in the future.


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## LGV (Jun 20, 2012)

CaptainFailcon said:


> WHAT ?
> what in the fuck are you babbling about


Im sorry if I make your head banged to the wall.
I try to narrow down the problem, find the problem what actually causing it.

Now the babbling part: Increase the volt-s may help in the short , but may just kill the falling part in hes PC + if he could find the part whats broken, may he is in the timeframe to RMA.
In short: increase the volt should hes LAST result, not first.
Best regards


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## debojitk (Jun 20, 2012)

*i am really confused why u guys are suspecting my cpu.*

Hi,
Thanks to u guys for replies.
But i am really confused why u guys are suspecting my cpu.
With single ram it is running rock solid stable.
Update: I have tested both rams individually in every slots, and both performed flawless.
Whenever I put two sticks together in dual/non-dual channel mode, P95 is failing like anything, and it happens when I choose the torture test for ram testing (3rd option in P95 torture test).
When I test CPU for maximum heat (In place FFT), it runs flawless.



CaptainFailcon said:


> sounds like the memory controller in the cpu is unstable try upping the CPU-NB voltage to about 1.25-1.3
> if that fails to help I would suspect that the cpu is starting to degrade


I did that, I mean I tried increasing MCH voltage, but just wanted to know that NB voltage is the MCH voltage or the ICH voltage. Because my mobo is MSI P45 neo, and it does not have anything like NB voltage in its CELL Menu.
My ram timing is 6-6-6-18, and the Command rate (1T/2T) is kept auto.
Is there any scope to alter those settings.

If in any case the 2 ram stick scenario does not work with my current setting, Can I get a 4gb DDR2 1066 Mhz for my Mobo instead of 800 Mhz, beacuse I think the memory speed is becoming the bottleneck between my newly installed gtx 560 card, and the quad core cpu.

Note:
Win 7 system rating:
CPU: 7.1
Graphics: 7.6
ram:5.5 (single stick), 7.1 (double stick)
disk:5.8

Please suggest.


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## johnspack (Jun 20, 2012)

Yes, MCH is NB voltage.  On a core2quad,  the mem controller is in the NB on the motherboard, not the cpu.  You can go as high as 1.4v on the MCH,  and you may need to  bump up ram volts just a touch,  but that's only if needed.  Make sure to set for 2T command rate to eliminate any variables.  You may need to bump up cpu volts a bit too,  but only if the above didn't help.


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## debojitk (Jun 25, 2012)

*sorry for late reply*

Hey guys,

I could not apply the changes you suggested because my new zotac gtx 560 is working no more. It is showing some garbled character on screen during booting just after POST, and when its time to load the desktop it is resulting in blue dumps with pink dots every where in the screen. Uninstalling/reinstalling driver could not solve the problem.
Should I consider that it is gone?
Please reply.


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## CaptainFailcon (Jun 25, 2012)

debojitk said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I could not apply the changes you suggested because my new zotac gtx 560 is working no more. It is showing some garbled character on screen during booting just after POST, and when its time to load the desktop it is resulting in blue dumps with pink dots every where in the screen. Uninstalling/reinstalling driver could not solve the problem.
> Should I consider that it is gone?
> Please reply.



sounds pretty well dead to me next time buy EVGA/XFX


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## debojitk (Jun 25, 2012)

CaptainFailcon said:


> sounds pretty well dead to me next time buy EVGA/XFX



u r right
my old evga 8800gt is working flawless from last 4.5 yrs w/o any problem.
I bought zotac because it was a bit cheap @$200, and evga gtx 560 was not available at retail shop, and i don't know how in future it is going to perform


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## CaptainFailcon (Jun 25, 2012)

I won't ever buy zotac/power color 
completely made in china with typical china "quality" you are lucky it didn't explode or suddenly fall into a sink hole


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## Paddan1000 (Jun 25, 2012)

I've seen this memory problem several times, where one or two stick works fine but two or three makes the computer unstable. The broken stick works fine on its own since the strain put on the memory bus is lower with only one stick, but with more RAM installed the workload increases and the faulty stick can't handle it.
The only way of diagnosing the faulty memory stick is to get an extra stick and test the two original ones against it, one at a time. Then you can discard the one that still gives errors.
As for the graphics card, test it in another computer and see if the problem persists. It might be possible that the problem is due to something simple, like overheating from a fan clogged up with dust or that the extra 6-pin power cable came off.


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## debojitk (Jun 25, 2012)

@CaptainFialcon
I just bought the card a week back, and it is dead within a week. So at this point i can't shell out more money to get another card.
Can u give me solution to this problem. I mean any customization on the card like custom cooling etc.


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## debojitk (Jun 25, 2012)

Hi Paddan,
u r right, i think i found the faulty ram stick and i m going to test with another stick.
can u tell me kingston lifetime warranty is really life time or less than that. i think i lost the cash memo of the ram stick


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## 95Viper (Jun 25, 2012)

debojitk said:


> can u tell me kingston lifetime warranty is really life time or less than that. i think i lost the cash memo of the ram stick



Kingston Limited Warranty Statement



> Product Lifetime Warranty:
> The following Kingston products are covered by this warranty for the life of the product:
> 
> Memory modules including ValueRAM®, HyperX®, Retail Memory and Kingston system-specific memory; Flash memory cards (e.g., Secure Digital, Secure Digital HC and XC, CompactFlash, MultiMediaCard, SmartMedia) and Flash adapters.



Read the section that pertains to your country or region, here> Warranty Claim Procedures and Requirements


EDIT:
P45 Neo



> Supports four unbuffered DIMM of 1.8 Volt DDR2 667/800/1066* (OC) DRAM, 16GB Max.



Also, if, you know how to flash the bios and wish to take the risk... you may want to update to the latest; as, some bios updates had memory compatibility fixes.

Chances are the ram is good, if you run Memtest on the individual sticks and they pass.

I believe you have other things, possibly, going on.  I am curious as to why the video card died so suddenly.


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## debojitk (Jun 25, 2012)

Paddan1000 said:


> The broken stick works fine on its own since the strain put on the memory bus is lower with only one stick, but with more RAM installed the workload increases and the faulty stick can't handle it.


@95 viper, how do you think of the above. I mean single stick mode working fine, but when double stick come it becomes unstable.
What else could be the problem, i mean do u want to infer any relationship with the video card dying incident with this ram issue.
But the thing is probably i have found a ram stick as guilty; in single stick mode the system is resulting in bsods when i ran p95 in ram testing torture mode.
Aonther thing - can i rely on memtest result for memory testing, because i tested the both rams even in dual channel mode with windows default memory diagnostic (MdSched.exe)  in dos mode, and it did not find any error.
Now with the non-faulty ram and the old card system is again stable.

Please help me in identifying the actual root cause of all the issues.
Note: I have recently installed corsair gs 500 psu in my system.
Could you please suggest any other diagnostics

Thanks in advance.
Edit: When the card died the system was running with one ram and was stable with no frequent bsods


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## CaptainFailcon (Jun 25, 2012)

RMA the card ...
http://www.zotacusa.com/register/rma


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## Widjaja (Jun 25, 2012)

In response to the original subject of the post, I think the memory controller on the motherboard is had it.

I had something similar happen with my old Core 2 rig although the chipset was a 680i.

The machine could run fine in single channel but would either black screen, come up with AMD VPU recover, bluescreen or reset all together.


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## CaptainFailcon (Jun 25, 2012)

Widjaja said:


> In response to the original subject of the post, I think the memory controller on the motherboard is had it.
> 
> I had something similar happen with my old Core 2 rig although the chipset was a 680i.
> 
> The machine could run fine in single channel but would either black screen, come up with AMD VPU recover, bluescreen or reset all together.



possible but not likey that almost never happens


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## Widjaja (Jun 25, 2012)

CaptainFailcon said:


> possible but not likey that almost never happens



More of a chance than a degrading memory controller on a 775skt CPU.

Either way, the ram can be crossed out, and the I believe the CPU.


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## CaptainFailcon (Jun 25, 2012)

its more likely that the gpu in the process of dieing was causing the error as well


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## Widjaja (Jun 25, 2012)

CaptainFailcon said:


> its more likely that the gpu in the process of dieing was causing the error as well



Yet the OP states the bsods were occurring before the new GPU was installed.


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## 95Viper (Jun 25, 2012)

Widjaja said:


> In response to the original subject of the post, I think the memory controller on the motherboard is had it.
> 
> I had something similar happen with my old Core 2 rig although the chipset was a 680i.
> 
> The machine could run fine in single channel but would either black screen, come up with AMD VPU recover, bluescreen or reset all together.





Widjaja said:


> Yet the OP states the bsods were occurring before the new GPU was installed.



Valid points.



debojitk said:


> @95 viper, how do you think of the above. I mean single stick mode working fine, but when double stick come it becomes unstable.



I am leaning the way Widjaja is.

It could, also, be the NB, and/or the memory, needs a bump in voltage due to age and/or the motherboards memory controller is going.
Or, it could, even, be you may just need to set your voltages and memory timings manually.

What are the model numbers and timings on the two sticks?
What settings (voltages, timings, etc.) is the motherboard is using? 

Run CPUz and/or HWInfo; take some screen shots of the voltages/timings and post them.

And, for grins and giggles; post a screen shot of your temps at idle and load, you can use Real Temp.

Also, run a good full scan on the Hard drive/s.
Look in your device manager and see if there are any problems.

Have you tried resetting the bios... like, removing the CMOS battery, moving the clear cmos dip jumper, or any other method. If not, try clearing the BIOS(CMOS).

If you still suspect a bad or dying stick of ram, then borrow/buy some, and test it.
If that seems to be it, RMA the ram.

It would be really nice to see some screen shots and hard numbers on the parts/settings, though, as most of this is guessing.


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## debojitk (Jun 27, 2012)

Thanks Viper for your elaborate reply.
I did not get much time at home because of office work load.
I will post those screen shots asap.

The ram timing i remember is 6-6-6-18. Though i will verify and post the snaps

Thanks


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## arnoo1 (Jun 27, 2012)

I had the same problem with asus p5q-ws
Probally you screwed your mem controller on the mobo, nowadays they are on the cpu, on s775 on the mobo, try set everything manual or get a new mobo


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## scaminatrix (Jun 27, 2012)

Have you tested the graphics card on another machine? If not I suggest you do it; it could be fine.
Remember that we're talking about a failed memory controller on the NB chipset, which could be the same cause of the garbled characters on screen (the whole NB might be dying/dead). Everything points at NB.

New mobo time! Don't RMA the card before testing it another machine (<-Important)


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## D007 (Jun 27, 2012)

Could also be a failing channel on the mobo, not necessarilty the cpu or the memory.. Yea, they really make it easy to figure out which is failing.. XD Try different sticks in different slots..


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## debojitk (Jun 28, 2012)

Hi I ve uploaded the snaps 
Please have a look
Thanks.


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## debojitk (Jun 28, 2012)

@scaminatrix
I have already given for rma. sorry !
But the thing is with my old card that is evga 8600 gt it is running without any issue.
if the nb chipset is dying, is there any way to repair it? I mean would it help?

edit:
if i go for a mobo, is there any board that can be fit with my existing cpu c2q, and later i can upgrade the cpu to i series on the same board.


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## Widjaja (Jun 28, 2012)

I don't trust speed fan for it's temperatures.
Let alone trying to decipher where some of the temperatures actually originate from.

Your RAM timings are fine.
The single stick of RAM should be able to run at 1T but i guess it was left like that after having two sticks installed.

There is no way to repair the NB besides RMAing the board.
No simple fix for a failing NB.

There should be plenty of used 775skt motherboards out there on the market.
Especially at the moment with Ivy Bridge being recently released and people upgrading.

Where I live, there is always some P5Q Pro for sale.


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## debojitk (Jul 23, 2012)

*i got the rma-ed card*

Guys,
Yesterday I got the rma-ed card, and it seems  running fine and quiet, also performance is better than previous zotac 560; seems must be having some problem with the previous card.
But.... now the bsods ar coming even with single ram stick. After installation of the card, i got 3 bsods, and one with rdyboost.sys.
Windbg can't help.
Who should be the suspect; the cpu; the mem controller on the mobo, or the gfx card itself.
If it is a mem controller then i need to replace the mobo. In that case could u please suggest some good board for lga 775 skt; because retail shops stopped selling 775 boards in our locality; and at this moment i dont want to replace the cpu if it is not dying. FYI, I live in Kolkata, India.

Waiting for your reply.
Thanks,
Debojit


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## scaminatrix (Jul 23, 2012)

I would bet unspeakable parts of my body that it's the mobo. I got an LGA775 mobo in my FS thread; that might aswell go for free. I'll test it with a Q6600 I got here and if it proves stable; you can have the board for price of postage if you like?

Check sig for FS thread


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## debojitk (Jul 24, 2012)

which card u are having
I live in india
would u please let me know what would be the postage cost and how can i transfer it to you.


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## debojitk (Jul 24, 2012)

Widjaja said:


> Where I live, there is always some P5Q Pro for sale.



In my city i am not able to get a high end used lga 775 board.
can u help me on that part


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## Widjaja (Jul 24, 2012)

debojitk said:


> In my city i am not able to get a high end used lga 775 board.
> can u help me on that part



The most high end board available at the moment unfortunately is a transition type board (DDR2 and DDR3 slots).
We usually have one seller who always has some high end motherboard for sale and is reputable.
P5QC which and the seller wants to sell it as a package with processor and ram so sale price including postage would currently be unreasonable to send to India.
I'll keep an eye out for decent motherboards though.


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## debojitk (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks Widjaja,

But a last question:
We are all sure that the culprit is the mobo, no one else right.
I mean is there any definitive way to point out the problem creator.

Every time i start the pc it gives a random bsod like irql not less or equals; i have got one old pixelview play tv pro 2 card. Whn i run the software for the card it gives another bsod.
I am not sure, and i dont want link anything.
Tomorrow i will post the mini dumps, and let u guys analyze the dumps.
I tried analyzing dumps with !analyze -v, but i could not figure out anything..

Thanks,
Debojit


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## debojitk (Aug 19, 2012)

now even with single ram stick it gives 2 bsods on every startup. if i change the ram slot for few days it runs fine but it starts reoccuring.
the gfx card is running fine and cool, with full load temp max is around 70
i am fed up with the issue, how should i cope up with this.

thx
debojit


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## itsakjt (Aug 19, 2012)

I think the motherboard is dying(the northbridge).
Since you have a Core 2 Duo, the memory controller is on the Northbridge(MCH=Memory Controller Hub). I assume the RAMs to be ok since they work flawless when they are single as you stated. The only cause is the Northbridge not able to handle the higher bandwidth of dual channel RAMs. 
A rare chance is the RAM VRM is failing maybe it is not able to supply sufficient power to the RAM when two are connected. But it still points to the motherboard.
Also the graphics card problem you mentioned may not be in the card but the motherboard as well. The PCIE lanes are connected to the CPU through the Northbridge. If the Northbridge fails, PCIE will fail and graphics card will not operate.
So all in all the Northbridge might be failing. You may try to reapply thermal paste in the Northbridge if it's heatsink can be opened to remove any overheating issues or else RMA the board if it is under warranty.


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## debojitk (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi guys,

i was not able to get a very good board, though i managed to get gigabyte g41-mt-s2 rev 2.1, which has all solid capacitors; rest of the parts are mostly normal.
Also took 2x2gb gskill ripjaws x ddr3 ram pair.
after installation everything is running fine as expected
Another problem:
you know that i have corsair gx 500; should not be any power crisis right with zotac 560 board;
but from today i dvd rw drive is acting crazy; sometime it is taking long to get detected by bios itself; if it is detected by bios; i put a cd start copying; but middle of the copy the drive got disappeared from "my computer". again i restarted but again it is taking long to get detected by bios; and finally it does not get detected.
Guys please help me out resolving this problem.

One more thing;
I have two 120 mm system fan but my new small board only has one 3 pin fan connector; and one fan alone is not able to clear all heats; i need to start another fan also; 
can u suggest some altered/tweaked connectivity setting so that i can enable the spare fan with the board. Any sort of help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Debojit


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## debojitk (Sep 9, 2012)

Also with this board the northbridge chip is most hot chip in my box. Is there custom cooling solution to cool the northbridge a little.
Thanks in advance
Debojit


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## Widjaja (Sep 9, 2012)

Switch the HDD and the DVD drive around so they are using each others SATA ports.
This is just to see if it's the SATA port on the motherboard causing the issue or your DVD drive.
Or possibly the SATA cable.


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