# A case with perfect grounding



## Octopuss (Sep 9, 2010)

Some people say grounding is still a big problem (in some cases) even with higher grade more expensive cases. I have Auzentech X-fi forte I gave up on using because of constant sound problems even with new drivers. One guy suggested it MIGHT be grounding problem and according to his tests, some current can be measured on almost every case out there, which possibly causes problems.
So my question is, are you aware of any case in under say $200 range which is perfect in this way?


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## NdMk2o1o (Sep 9, 2010)

Octopuss said:


> Some people say grounding is still a big problem (in some cases) even with higher grade more expensive cases. I have Auzentech X-fi forte I gave up on using because of constant sound problems even with new drivers. One guy suggested it MIGHT be grounding problem and according to his tests, some current can be measured on almost every case out there, which possibly causes problems.
> So my question is, are you aware of any case in under say $200 range which is perfect in this way?



I really wouldn't have that as my main requirement for looking for a case, its a moot point and even if most cases have some kind of current going through them whiich I can't comment on, its obviously not that big of an issue as there would be a lot more talk about it.


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## Bo$$ (Sep 9, 2010)

try a high end coolmaster or a NZXT case, both are great choices


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## Papahyooie (Sep 9, 2010)

Ground the case to the screw on a wall outlet or something like that with a wire.


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## Bo$$ (Sep 9, 2010)

i dont think it is ground although the OP mentioned it, maybe it is interference in the case caused by the computer components inside it.

Linky


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## Octopuss (Sep 9, 2010)

Papahyooie said:


> Ground the case to the screw on a wall outlet or something like that with a wire.


I heard about this method but I do not like it very much. Extra cables/wires suck. Also, howwould I attach it to the case to make sure the contact is good? (or where of course)


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## slyfox2151 (Sep 9, 2010)

touch the inside of the case and see if that fixs the audio... if it dosnt then its not likely a grounding issue....


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## Octopuss (Sep 9, 2010)

slyfox2151 said:


> touch the inside of the case and see if that fixs the audio... if it dosnt then its not likely a grounding issue....



Good idea. I will try it, thanks


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## Beertintedgoggles (Sep 9, 2010)

If there is current going through your case to ground, then there is an issue with your components leaking current onto the ground plane rather than the return lines (the black wires).  Not an issue with the case at all.  In fact, even a well grounded case would still have current running through it in the above instance because it's doing what it's supposed to.


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## mudkip (Sep 9, 2010)

touch the inside of the case with one hand while placing the other hand on one breast. if that doesn't fix the audio problem your soundcard is possible gay.


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## Bo$$ (Sep 9, 2010)

mudkip said:


> touch the inside of the case with one hand while placing the other hands on one breast. if that doesn't fix the audio problem your soundcard is possible gay.


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## Phxprovost (Sep 9, 2010)

mudkip said:


> touch the inside of the case with one hand while placing the other hands on one breast. if that doesn't fix the audio problem your soundcard is possible gay.



this is the most likely scenario


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## Steevo (Sep 9, 2010)

+2


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## Arctucas (Sep 9, 2010)

Octopuss said:


> Some people say grounding is still a big problem (in some cases) even with higher grade more expensive cases. I have Auzentech X-fi forte I gave up on using because of constant sound problems even with new drivers. One guy suggested it MIGHT be grounding problem and according to his tests, some current can be measured on almost every case out there, which possibly causes problems.
> So my question is, are you aware of any case in under say $200 range which is perfect in this way?



Do you have a link to the actual comments "one guy" made?

I am interested in what sort of currents he found; DC? or AC?, if AC what frequency? What amperage are these currents? How is he determining these currents exist?

Chassis grounding exists for one purpose; to direct transient voltages to earth in order to protect personnel from electrical shock.


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## NdMk2o1o (Sep 9, 2010)

mudkip said:


> touch the inside of the case with one hand while placing the other hand on one breast. if that doesn't fix the audio problem your soundcard is possible gay.



Wow my soundcard was playing up and I just tried this and it didnt work, whod'a thought it I thought it was faulty and all this time it was gay!!! 

Oh and sigged


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## Octopuss (Sep 9, 2010)

Arctucas said:


> Do you have a link to the actual comments "one guy" made?
> 
> I am interested in what sort of currents he found; DC? or AC?, if AC what frequency? What amperage are these currents? How is he determining these currents exist?
> 
> Chassis grounding exists for one purpose; to direct transient voltages to earth in order to protect personnel from electrical shock.



My english is not good enough to translate that and besides, I have like zero knowledge about electricity, so sorry, can't.


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## NdMk2o1o (Sep 9, 2010)

Octopuss said:


> My english is not good enough to translate that and besides, I have like zero knowledge about electricity, so sorry, can't.



Use the thanks button now and then you have been here over a year and not given one, its just polite


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## Octopuss (Sep 9, 2010)

What does a button have to do with my question? I have no idea what are you talking about.


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## NdMk2o1o (Sep 9, 2010)

Octopuss said:


> What does a button have to do with my question? I have no idea what are you talking about.



Absolutely nothing, only 9 people have responded to you so it was just a suggestion  Bye


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## JATownes (Sep 9, 2010)

Octopuss said:


> What does a button have to do with my question? I have no idea what are you talking about.



He is just stating, that if you appreciate the help people are giving, use the "Thanks" button once in a while.  We appreciate being thanked sometimes.


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## de.das.dude (Sep 9, 2010)

Octopuss said:


> Some people say grounding is still a big problem (in some cases) even with higher grade more expensive cases. I have Auzentech X-fi forte I gave up on using because of constant sound problems even with new drivers. One guy suggested it MIGHT be grounding problem and according to his tests, some current can be measured on almost every case out there, which possibly causes problems.
> So my question is, are you aware of any case in under say $200 range which is perfect in this way?




the best way to check if your case is grounded is...

take the plug out pf the PSU
take a LED, attach long wires to it.
then touch the positive wire to the top of the cmos battery.
take the other wire and touch it anywhere on the case, or the earthing wire of the PSU.

if the led glows, everything is well grounded.


this can be tested with a multimeter too, but how many peoplw have multimeters?


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## Octopuss (Sep 9, 2010)

That's very good idea too. Will give it a try when I have some time for experimenting. Cheers.


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## de.das.dude (Sep 9, 2010)

cheers


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## W1zzard (Sep 9, 2010)

on every single case that i've seen the metal frame is connected to the metal frame of the psu which is connected to ground on the power cable.

you screw your card to the metal frame of the case, so it is grounded.

get a multimeter, set it to measure resistance, pick two spots that you expect to be ground, put probes there, resistance should be <1 ohm


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## de.das.dude (Sep 9, 2010)

there is a connectivity checking mode on multimeters that can be used.






in this mode, a true connection gives a beep. also the resistance is shown


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## Arctucas (Sep 9, 2010)

de.das.dude said:


> the best way to check if your case is grounded is...
> 
> take the plug out pf the PSU
> take a LED, attach long wires to it.
> ...



No, it is not. All that will prove is that the motherboard ground is connected to the chassis through the PSU.

I believe you are confusing "grounding" and "bonding". 

"Grounded" means there exists an equipotential plane between the chassis and earth. In other words, the potential (voltage) difference between the chassis and earth is 0 Volts.

"Bonded" means two conductive parts are connected in such a way as to present 0 Ohms (or as close to 0 as possible) of resistance between them. However, they may not be "grounded" at all.


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## Arctucas (Sep 9, 2010)

Octopuss said:


> My english is not good enough to translate that and besides, I have like zero knowledge about electricity, so sorry, can't.



You do not need to translate, if you will provide a link, hopefully I can use Babelfish.


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## INSTG8R (Sep 9, 2010)

Tagan used have a nice feature(have had a Tagan in awhile now tho so don't know if they still do it.)
They actually had a ground loop on the PSU. You just put it under one of the MoBo mounting screws.


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## erocker (Sep 9, 2010)

This is most likely an EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference) problem rather than a grounding problem. Search for guides on how to make your own shield. Here's one: http://www.overclock.net/sound-cards-computer-audio/571718-how-make-emi-shielding-your-sound.html


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## de.das.dude (Sep 9, 2010)

the any closed volume closed off by a conductive material cuts off EMI. if you want i can give the mathematical proof too. but it includes calculus.

if you open your cell phone, you will see these rectangular clip on boxex made on ICs to preent EMI.


EMI interference causes problems when something is working with waves and frequency ad that sort. EMI can %&^* these up and so you get bad output.

sound circuitry is something that is hampered by EMI and so erocker is correct.



Arctucas said:


> No, it is not. All that will prove is that the motherboard ground is connected to the chassis through the PSU.
> 
> I believe i are confusing "grounding" and "bonding".
> 
> ...




if the motherboard ground is connected to the chassis, and the PSU ground is connected to the chassis, that means everyone is grounded. you just need a conductive connection that can flow both ways.


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## Arctucas (Sep 9, 2010)

de.das.dude said:


> the any closed volume closed off by a conductive material cuts off EMI. if you want i can give the mathematical proof too. but it includes calculus.
> 
> if you open your cell phone, you will see these rectangular clip on boxex made on ICs to preent EMI.
> 
> ...



Really? Where did you learn that? What if the PSU grounding conductor is not connected to earth?

Having been an electrician for more than twenty-five years, I believe you should know what you are talking about before you start giving advice. 

Why do you not just run along now and let the grownups talk?


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## de.das.dude (Sep 10, 2010)

Arctucas said:


> Really? Where did you learn that? What if the PSU grounding conductor is not connected to earth?
> 
> Having been an electrician for more than twenty-five years, I believe you should know what you are talking about before you start giving advice.
> 
> Why do you not just run along now and let the grownups talk?



ok, when i said that, i assumed the house wiring was okay. to test if the earthing of the board is ok, you need an AC bulb, connect it to a holder with long wires, take a terminal, jab it into the "live" one of the socket(this should be the right hole, but sometimes people who are not good make the live one on the left too), then the other terminal needs to be jabbed into the earthing. if the bulb glows, your earthing is A-okay!

and i learnt the EMI stuff in school, and i have it in my first sem mechanical B.E syllabus too.
other stuff, i learnt from my dad who was an electrician in his youth, but runs a business now.


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## Arctucas (Sep 10, 2010)

de.das.dude said:


> ok, when i said that, i assumed the house wiring was okay. to test if the earthing of the board is ok, you need an AC bulb, connect it to a holder with long wires, take a terminal, jab it into the "live" one of the socket(this should be the right hole, but sometimes people who are not good make the live one on the left too), then the other terminal needs to be jabbed into the earthing. if the bulb glows, your earthing is A-okay!
> 
> and i learnt the EMI stuff in school, and i have it in my first sem mechanical B.E syllabus too.
> other stuff, i learnt from my dad who was an electrician in his youth, but runs a business now.



Alright then, I apologize for being somewhat rude, but I know that improper handling of electrical components and wiring is dangerous and often fatal. I have had electricians under my supervision injured because they "knew what they were doing", so I am concerned when I see someone saying things that are not correct.

Now, I am giving the requirements of the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70) that is used in the U.S.A:

The proper way to check if an electrical service is properly "grounded" is inspect the main breaker panel/fuse box. _Disclaimer: Electrical service work must only be performed by qualified personnel._ In other words, if you do not know what you are doing, hire a professional.

If the panel is the first point of disconnect, the white or neutral (*grounded* conductor) wires are connect to a terminal bar and the bare or ground (*grounding* conductor) wires are connected to a separate terminal bar which is bonded to the panel. The two terminal bars are then connected together (*bonded*) with the "main bonding jumper", (sized according to the ampacity of the service) and a heavier gauge wire (also sized according to the service ampacity) is connected from the ground bar to the structure's metal cold water line at a point within five feet of where the line enters the structure. It is recommended, and some local codes require, that an auxiliary conductor be connected to second grounding electrode, such as a driven rod. There are other grounding means, but I will not go into that much detail.

If the panel is not the first point of disconnect (where another disconnecting means is between the meter and the panel), the neutral and ground wires are not bonded together in the panel, rather each still goes to separate terminal bars, but the neutral bar is insulated from the panel, while the ground bar is bonded to the panel. The service grounding conductor(s) is/are then connected to the grounding electrode(s) as before.

Even then to meet the code requirements, the resistance between earth and the grounding electrode must be 25 Ohms or less. If it is not, a second electrode must be installed no less than six feet away. This may need to be repeated several times. I remember a job where it required four driven rods to get below 25 Ohms.

The service may be "grounded" without the required electrodes being installed and connected, through the service cable grounded conductor which goes to the utility company's transformer, but it is not the correct method.

Regarding the EMI, if the chassis is made of metal (aluminum or steel) and completely encloses the internal components, it should act as a Faraday Cage, effectively blocking any stray signals. I noticed that some of the Asus sound cards have EMI shielding on the card.


EDIT: To check a receptacle outlet for ground, a receptacle tester should be used.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Sep 10, 2010)

Arctucas said:


> .
> 
> Regarding the EMI, if the chassis is made of metal (aluminum or steel) and completely encloses the internal components, it should act as a Faraday Cage, effectively blocking any stray signals. I noticed that some of the Asus sound cards have EMI shielding on the card.



Pssh.  A faraday cage if you don't have a case window.  Also, this is assuming that the power supply is in contact with the case.  My IBM 5150 is lined with an extra metal liner to act as a faraday cage cause it is a milspec one.


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## Arctucas (Sep 10, 2010)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Pssh.  A faraday cage if you don't have a case window.  Also, this is assuming that the power supply is in contact with the case.  My IBM 5150 is lined with an extra metal liner to act as a faraday cage cause it is a milspec one.



True, you will note that I said "*completely encloses*", however.

The PSU mounting screws should be enough to effectively bond the PSU to the chassis.


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## de.das.dude (Sep 10, 2010)

i was thinking....
and i think the best possible way to make the cage would be to....
use the plastic coated aluminium foil and wrap it around the card (leaving out the slot pins of course).


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