# HDD



## 1MistyrRider (Aug 9, 2020)

its been a long while since i had to buy one. maybe 15-20 years. they have changed a lot. i have done research. slower HDDs are quieter, that wont bother me. are modern MBs, able to handle the newer HDDs? [i'm working on contacting the manufacture of my MB]. 1 HDD does cameras for recording, maybe thats a good buy. it can record up to 68 cameras at the same time.[its for security],WD has some good options, the red looks good. i dont plan on spending a lot for this, i just want a HDD, for Windows 10, and to put temp files in, storage files, so it dont strain the SSD drive. if i asked this already, please delete it.


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## kiriakost (Aug 9, 2020)

I would not trust any HDD security system recorder if this not using Raid-1. 
Newer made HDD do not have the build quality of the old. 
Two months ago I have import two Raptor 10K from Spain to Greece,  with 60000 hours of operation on them,  they are great opportunity as spare drives, they were build for a million of hours as max.


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## 1MistyrRider (Aug 9, 2020)

i have not started this system as yet. so, any advice is helpful. guess i'll have to look up Raptor 10k. ed 
60,000 hrs., might out last me. thanks


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## R-T-B (Aug 9, 2020)

I would not go for a used drive if data integrity matters, doesn't matter how well engineered it is.  The 10k raptors were made a long time ago.

Look at enterprise drives like Hitachi/WD Ultrastars, Seagate constellations, etc.  They will do the job nicely.

Also, Western Digital Purple series is intended exactly for video surviellance, so maybe worth a look.


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## 1MistyrRider (Aug 9, 2020)

i am tring to keep the price down., so that is of concern. the SSD is only 1 TB, getting an HDD, is a new experience. i dont plan on video surveillance, just seemed like a good buy/HDD drive.


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## kiriakost (Aug 9, 2020)

1MistyrRider said:


> i have not started this system as yet. so, any advice is helpful. guess i'll have to look up Raptor 10k. ed
> 60,000 hrs., might out last me. thanks


You might find sort the capacity of 75GB,  but they are terrific as Non-SSD boot partition.


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## Caring1 (Aug 10, 2020)

You don't need a fancy H.D. just something to store general stuff in.
All motherboards support Sata 3 which is needed for these new drives to run at their rated speed.


			https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-BarraCuda-Internal-Drive-3-5-Inch/dp/B07H2RR55Q/ref=sr_1_3?crid=T0ZNBXTKOWTA&dchild=1&keywords=hard+drive&qid=1597018439&rnid=2941120011&s=pc&sprefix=hard%2Caps%2C377&sr=1-3


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## 1MistyrRider (Aug 10, 2020)

i'm using a seagate 250 GiB drive on my old machine. it got 170 Gib left. i deleted the site that helped me build this. Oh Well , i'll find it again an see what matches. i dont need much. [something similar to park picker]. back to search. 
this drive is old, 10-15 yrs., and is quite.


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## 1MistyrRider (Aug 11, 2020)

the more i learn about this, the less i know. "PC Part Picker" was the place i went to. option's have changed since then. I did contact MSI today, after listing to music, on the Phone for 10 minute's, it hung up. music was terrible. i'll try again tonight, 1:32 am now., an see what happens. [always open for edit]. i think i can do 5,25, 3.25 an 2.25, HDD with this MB, MSI, x470 AMD MB, Gaming Plus MAX.
something else i found out, is, i can run Windows 10 in vertial, though i think it would be nice, to have , to have an extra storage drive, for temp files, an Windows 10, stuff, like updates. the PC i built, has 5.25, 3.25, an 2.25, bays, the board supports this, best i know.
i dont think i need that much for storage., not yet anyway. so now, im just looking for something that runs quite, don't cost much, an dont make a lot of noise. WD black, makes a noise, every 5 seconds, from my research. i would not be able to deal with that. 
had to kill many Katydids, cause the noise drove me to. 300 ft. at least. away from where i was sleeping. woke me up, and i found it, it was no more. some are a sensitive to sound. stress makes this worst. {i'll measure the distance, again, to make sure}. ya remember thing's like that.  guess i talk too much. that can be edited, also. i dont mean to. hate to put someone at work, that could be doing other thing's. i'll try to quit.


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## R-T-B (Aug 11, 2020)

1MistyrRider said:


> i dont plan on video surveillance, just seemed like a good buy/HDD drive.



Gotcha, misread you there.

I think you're best deal would probably be in SATA SSDs, ironically, from a performance vs cost perspective, unless you need a truly large amount of data (above 1TB).

That's sort of the state of the market.


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## 1MistyrRider (Aug 11, 2020)

yep, so it go's.


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## 1MistyrRider (Aug 15, 2020)

i just came from a world, 5.25 HD was common.
3.5 v/s 2.5, hard to decide. 5.25 is cheap, but, so out of date. 3.5 v/s 2.5, both have good an bad points. I'm still looking at a noise factor. my noise problem, aint everyone's noise problem. the 5 second shake, [has a better term] from WD, western digital, the Black one. would drive me crazy. a normal function of that drive. [has to shake up the oil or something]. laptop's use a 2.5 HDD, it runs slower, but, will take some shock. they dont store as much, but last longer. then, the hybrid drives, best of both, in some way's, problems out the ? in others. it's a hard call.  Well, i got a new machine. might as well take my chances. screenshots will follow the best i can. i accidentally deleted, my toolbar. [bottom of page], either i find out how to get it back, or i do a new install., keep my bookmarks.
i'm glad the new machine will be sharper than me,., i hope i get the hang, of handling it .
a franken thing, maybe a few steins, or so.  ed



R-T-B said:


> I would not go for a used drive if data integrity matters, doesn't matter how well engineered it is.  The 10k raptors were made a long time ago.
> 
> Look at enterprise drives like Hitachi/WD Ultrastars, Seagate constellations, etc.  They will do the job nicely.
> 
> Also, Western Digital Purple series is intended exactly for video surveillance, so maybe worth a look.


i cant find Ultrastars.,, i dont need video, yet, but it's a new world. Seagate, might hold some promise. i got a lot of catching up to do.


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## dragontamer5788 (Aug 15, 2020)

If you need anything less than 2TB, then just go SSD. High quality 1TB SSDs are $100 these days, $150 for a speedy M.2 NVMe SSD. Hard drives remain useful as the cheapest storage for a consumer (ignoring tape drives). Pretty easy these days  to get 10TB for just $250 or less.

I know you say you don't care about performance. But SSDs are roughly 100x faster (that's 10,000% faster) in IOPS and latency than hard drives. A modern system should be made with an SSD instead of a hard drive as its boot drive and probably for most 1TB (or less) situations. SSDs are completely silent, no moving parts, and use less energy than hard drives.

If $150 for a 1TB M.2 SSD is too expensive for you, then buy a 250GB SATA SSD instead. The speed difference is absolutely huge, the largest improvement in storage speeds in the last decade. You really should be considering SSD as the default choice these days.


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## 1MistyrRider (Aug 16, 2020)

i care some about performance. i have a 1TB SSD, Sabrent Q, the HDD, will be just for storage, and temp files. i read where SSD drives worked better, if temp files were put in an HDD. i'm still looking, i make up my mine slowly.   What do you think about Hybrid drives? arent they SSHD?
did some more research. the negative reviews say much at amazon. Firecuda is made at Samsung. not the same place it was., an i dont think i want to go there. so, i'm looking for a good HDD again. the warranty seems good, at Samsung, Firecuda, but there were complaints about that.  another look at Hitachi/WD Ultrastars. i messed up on the Ultrastars part of WD before in my search.


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## 1MistyrRider (Aug 22, 2020)

found out about SMR v/s CMR. thats got me going. where, i don't know. this is what i got so far. i havent formatted the SSD, drive, Sabrent Q Rocket. its the white one [SMR], the black sabrent,[which i dont have], is supposed to be [CMR],..
the 3.5, 2.5, HDD's, all have bad point's. its hard to pick one. i'm old an, "Dazed and Confused" ..


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## Athlonite (Aug 22, 2020)

1MistyrRider said:


> found out about SMR v/s CMR



First off neither of those terms apply to SSD's with SSD's it's 
SLC (Single Level Cell) where only 1 bit per cell is written (Fastest)
MLC ( Multi Level Cell) where 2 or more bits are written to a cell (Fast)
TLC (Tripple Level Cell) where 3 bits are written to a cell (Slow)
QLC (Quad Level Cell) Where 4 bits are written to a cell (Slowest)

Now to deal with HDD's CMR vs SMR

CMR (Conventional Magnetic Recording) Where each track is side by side on the platter sort of like looking at a brick wall where each layer of bricks is a track ||||| (Fastest) 
SMR (Shingled Magnetic Recording) where each track is layered partially over the previous track sort of like shingles on a roof \\\\\\\ (Slowest) 

In order to have a large Capacity CMR HDD they need to use more Platters inside a drive whereas with SMR each drive has less PLatters but suffer from slower write speeds compared to CMR 

For your storage needs though I wouldn't worry about which one you buy with regards to CMR/SMR but more on Capacity and Manufacturer


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## dragontamer5788 (Aug 22, 2020)

SMR is a backwards step: much slower write speeds than even 10-years ago.

In contrast, CMR (also known as PMR) drives are just bigger, cheaper, faster versions of the hard drives we used to use 10 years ago. If you know you like hard drives, then CMR is the best choice. Its virtually the same technology you've been buying for decades, just better.

SMR has some moderate utility as "cheapest per TB". You can't beat SMR's price, but why would you want to buy a lower quality, slower drive? Its not like CMR drives are expensive. SMR is a competitor to *TAPE* drives, the slowest of the slow in the market. Long-term archival, write once read many workloads. Its got a niche, but don't use them under "typical" desktop circumstances.


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## 1MistyrRider (Aug 22, 2020)

Athlonite said:


> First off neither of those terms apply to SSD's with SSD's it's
> SLC (Single Level Cell) where only 1 bit per cell is written (Fastest)
> MLC ( Multi Level Cell) where 2 or more bits are written to a cell (Fast)
> TLC (Tripple Level Cell) where 3 bits are written to a cell (Slow)
> ...


i must have misunderstood what i was reading. somewhere i read that SMART and some other technology pointed to SMR, i though it applied to SSD's as well.
now i have to reread what Level Cell Sabrent Q has.{nothing like learning new stuff}


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## claes (Aug 22, 2020)

I’ve been following this thread for awhile and am shocked it hasn’t reached a conclusion!

@1MistyrRider, the storage scene hasn’t changed much over the years. 5” drives have long passed their life, with 3.5” disks becoming the standard for desktops. 2.5” drives exist as well, and some are strong performers, but are best suited for conditions where noise, power, or space constraints are a concern.

The major manufacturers tend to have a few lines: storage, usually broken up into green and RAID drives; consumer drives, coming in both 5400 and 7200 rpm variants, and then some application specific drives (surveillance, cold storage, etc).

SSHD drives exist, but I would advise against them. There is not much of a performance gain and the limited adaptation of these drives seems to have stifled development. More, the controllers seem to die sooner than the disks, likely due to the hybrid caching and lack of development.

So, in your case, you want a 7200rpm consumer drive. The question is, as far as which disk you should purchase, and if you‘d be better off with an SSD instead, is two-fold: what’s your budget and how much space do you need?

I write all of this not to dissuade you from your research, but merely to help advance your cause of purchasing a storage device. Thanks for all of your thoughts!


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## 1MistyrRider (Aug 22, 2020)

@claes.
i been using a 2002 PC, till three days ago. though i started my build 4-6 months ago, its just hard to teach an old dog new trick's. 
let's just say, i'm a slow an thorough learner. [on the side, i used to exercise race horses] i loss count of the times i got throwed, from riding horses after 150. then there's the concussion thing, that dont have as much to do with horses. hahaha


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## 1MistyrRider (Aug 23, 2020)

i like this, just have to translate the cash. from the state's, i am. i dont have that much to store. i'm old, 65 at the end of this month, an can get by with much less. i will check it out though. 1 or 2 TB, will probable out last me. i got stuff to store, just not that much, bit wise. 
i have learned quite a bit, different bit, it hard to tell if my desktop is running. has 5 fans, 6 if you include me, just a funny. least the light flash's when it's running.


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## claes (Aug 23, 2020)

Hey, take your time — there’s a lot of info to learn from! I used to build RAIDs for small businesses and AV studios, but no longer. Why I still spend time reading white sheets is beyond me! Honestly it was a waste of my time back then...


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## 1MistyrRider (Aug 23, 2020)

i cant add no more to this. thanks


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## Athlonite (Sep 5, 2020)

1MistyrRider said:


> i cant add no more to this. thanks


 You r Sabrent Q uses Toshiba BICs4 TLC NAND so 3 bits per cell


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## claes (Sep 5, 2020)

1MistyrRider said:


> i cant add no more to this. thanks


Hey @1MistyrRider, no sweat; thanks for your earnest contribution! Forums should express people's experiences, not act as an individual document meant to represent all human experience. Thanks for reaching out!


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## ExcuseMeWtf (Sep 5, 2020)

> i read where SSD drives worked better, if temp files were put in an HDD.



Putting temp files on HDD doesn't make a lot of sense, as you're reducing overall performance doing so on slower drive. This is probably misguided idea to save write cycles on NAND, which doesn't matter much if your SSD has durable enough chips and adequate wear levelling implementation in controller.

Instead, you'd be better off having extra RAM, using some of it to create a RAMdisk, and putting temp folders there (via environment variables in Windows and app individual settings whenever applicable)


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## 1MistyrRider (Sep 13, 2020)

i bought extra ram, just haven't created a RAMdisk., or know how too. all of this is new to me. im thinking of putting Windows 10, on a 64GB thumb drive., and leave the rest in my PC. do forgive me, but i kinda like linux, or derivatives there-of. im using lubuntu at the moment.


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## Deleted member 191766 (Sep 13, 2020)

I like the Seagate Firecuda series; they have an 8GB solid state cache


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## ExcuseMeWtf (Sep 13, 2020)

> just haven't created a RAMdisk., or know how too. all of this is new to me.



In Windows:








						ImDisk Toolkit
					

Download ImDisk Toolkit for free. Ramdisk for Windows and mounting of image files. This tool will let you mount image files of hard drive, cd-rom or floppy, and create one or several ramdisks with various parameters. This all-in-one package includes the ImDisk Virtual Disk Driver (2.1.1), the...




					sourceforge.net
				




Install, run "Ramdisk configuration" from Menu Start, select size/letter/filesystem, make sure "Launch at Windows startup" is checked, set temp variables and press OK.

Apps that benefit from it are case-by-case. E.g., Firefox can set cache to disk adding setting in about:config named browser.cache.disk.parent_directory of string type and setting it to your new ramdisk.

In Linux you can follow this:








						How to Easily Create RAM Disk on Debian, Ubuntu, Linux Mint, CentOS - LinuxBabe
					

This tutorial will show you how to quickly create a RAM disk in any Linux distro. RAM disk is ultra-fast compared to even the fastest solid state drive.




					www.linuxbabe.com
				




I am not very well versed in what can benefit from it, other than browser cache.



> im thinking of putting Windows 10, on a 64GB thumb drive.



That doesn't strike me as good idea either, as you'd be limited by interface bandwidth.


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## 1MistyrRider (Sep 14, 2020)

@ExcuceMeWtf : i am having problems formatting the SSD with gparted. it sees the SSD, it just dont work.
that tutorial just might help?,  i increased my RAM. now i have 4, 8GB[DDR4 3200] way more than i ever had. 
lubuntu runs in RAM.
the SSD should format, or partition, maybe because its a sabrent Q, it just doesnt. 1TB. or it could be that my skills are somewhat lacking.
i might not have enough permissions, i am the only one on this PC, nobody i know wants to play around with linux. just windows or mac. an advantage to me.



Anwar.Shiekh said:


> I like the Seagate Firecuda series; they have an 8GB solid state cache
> [/QUOTE/]
> how long have you had this?


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## 1MistyrRider (Sep 21, 2020)

just found out, a while ago, i still dont know nothing. Oh Well. 
MB is different than, MiB, just a tad, an a mother board ' maybe i should have used mb., or just mobo. IDK., i'd like to be proper, so as, not to be too confusing. when i write. and,
i might just have had the HDD size wrong., as well.


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## kayjay010101 (Sep 21, 2020)

1MistyrRider said:


> ...im thinking of putting Windows 10, on a 64GB thumb drive....


Yeah, don't do that. Windows 10 makes a lot of temp files in the background which will kill any thumb drive quickly. Putting OS' on thumb drives is only really a good idea when the OS is read ONCE and then stored and ran from RAM, as is the case with things like ESXi.
Thumb drives do not last long and don't have many write cycles. If you do intend to install Windows on anything, it should be an SSD, or worst-case, an HDD. Never anything else.



1MistyrRider said:


> just found out, a while ago, i still dont know nothing. Oh Well.
> MB is different than, MiB, just a tad, an a mother board ' maybe i should have used mb., or just mobo. IDK., i'd like to be proper, so as, not to be too confusing. when i write. and,
> i might just have had the HDD size wrong., as well.



To clear up things:
MB= Megabyte, refers to 1000 kilobytes, which in turn is 1000000 bytes.
MiB=Mebibyte, refers to 1024 kilobytes (or 1000 kibibytes), which in turn is 1024000 bytes.
Hence why the two are slightly different. Storage mediums (HDDs, SSDs, thumb drives, etc.) usually use normal Kilo/Mega/Giga/Terrabytes, while Windows and other OS' typically use Kibi/Mebi/Gibi/Tebibytes. And so when you plug your 1TB SSD in, it only shows up in Windows as 909 GiB.

And yes, mobo is the preferred way to shorten motherboard, so as to not confuse it with megabytes.



1MistyrRider said:


> the SSD should format, or partition, maybe because its a sabrent Q, it just doesnt. 1TB. or it could be that my skills are somewhat lacking.
> i might not have enough permissions, i am the only one on this PC, nobody i know wants to play around with linux. just windows or mac. an advantage to me.


I recommend just using Windows 10's built in Disk Manager to make partitions. Or if you prefer command line; diskpart.
And yes, SSDs are able to be partitioned just like HDDs.


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## 1MistyrRider (Sep 21, 2020)

kayjay010101 said:


> Yeah, don't do that. Windows 10 makes a lot of temp files in the background which will kill any thumb drive quickly. Putting OS' on thumb drives is only really a good idea when the OS is read ONCE and then stored and ran from RAM, as is the case with things like ESXi.
> Thumb drives do not last long and don't have many write cycles. If you do intend to install Windows on anything, it should be an SSD, or worst-case, an HDD. Never anything else.
> 
> 
> ...


i'm using lubuntu, an only need only need windows, for some sites. i guess it might be better to buy another HDD,  or run windows in vertial, i dont trust myself, yet doing vertial yet. when windows changed from XP, i didnt. i was still using XP on the side, till the 2002, conked out, on the video, a couple of months ago. XP was slow as a turtle by this time.
Thanks for the reply.


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## kayjay010101 (Sep 21, 2020)

1MistyrRider said:


> i'm using lubuntu, an only need only need windows, for some sites. i guess it might be better to buy another HDD,  or run windows in vertial, i dont trust myself, yet doing vertial yet. when windows changed from XP, i didnt. i was still using XP on the side, till the 2002, conked out, on the video, a couple of months ago. XP was slow as a turtle by this time.
> Thanks for the reply.


In your case, yes, a virtual machine would probably be the best option. That or a dual-boot, but that's not exactly necessary just for browsing websites and is a bit harder than just running a virtual machine.


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## Deleted member 191766 (Sep 21, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> I would not trust any HDD security system recorder if this not using Raid-1.



I also really like RAID 1 over a higher level (RAID 0 is not RAID) because if the RAID circuit fails, one can just plug in the drive if things are mirrored (RAID 1).


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## 1MistyrRider (Sep 23, 2020)

kayjay010101 said:


> In your case, yes, a virtual machine would probably be the best option. That or a dual-boot, but that's not exactly necessary just for browsing websites and is a bit harder than just running a virtual machine.


i already did a linux drive and a windows drive before. actually it was a windows drive, and a linux drive. XP was on the 1st. drive HDD, Linux on the 2nd HDD, i used grub to make the linux drive start 1st., then switched the start order, on the mobo. 
window 10 will be a drain on my system because of so many redundant files. in my opinion, just haven't decided to put windows 10, in vertial, or give it its own drive, [HDD]... i read that windows 10 likes to start the starting order., or maybe just change it., after every update. i havent experienced this yet, i dont have W10 installed. came with the install disk for, the mobo, MSI  x470 Gaming Plus Max. i run Linux. So, i get mixed up. so to speak. i got my own reasons, for staying. i will not impose them, best i can.


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## Jetster (Oct 21, 2020)

kiriakost said:


> I would not trust any HDD security system recorder if this not using Raid-1.
> Newer made HDD do not have the build quality of the old.
> Two months ago I have import two Raptor 10K from Spain to Greece,  with 60000 hours of operation on them,  they are great opportunity as spare drives, they were build for a million of hours as max.


WD raptors are rated MTBF rating of 1.2 _million hours. That doesn't mean they will last a million hours .  137 years btw _
MTBF - A product cannot be expected to last longer than its design lifetime regardless of how high its MTBF rating is.
MTBF rating of 1.2 million hours, or 137 years. Both drives are covered by a five-year warranty.

_*





						Mean time between failures - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				



*_
MTBF is defined as the point in time at which 1/e devices on average will still be operational (1/e is approximately 37%)

Furthermore, MTBF specifically excludes wear-out factors. A fan’s MTBF may be dozens of years but it will invariably wear-out in approximately 3 years. A power supply with an MTBF of 40,000 hours does not mean that the power supply should last for an average of 40,000 hours. According to the theory behind the statistics of confidence intervals, the statistical average becomes the true average as the number of samples increase. An MTBF of 40,000 hours, or 1 year for 1 module, becomes 40,000/2 for two modules and 40,000/4 for four modules.

Finally, MTBF does not directly tell what the expected lifetime of a unit is.
eg: MTBF 174 years for a device, the probability of survival is:


TimeProbability of Survival1 year99.43%5 years97%10 years94%20 years89%30 years79%


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## 1MistyrRider (Oct 21, 2020)

Kinda make me depressed, but the more i learn here, the less i know. 
My older Printer, HP is still working, from 2002. and so do my wireless mouse. Logitech.
doubt i could get a printer as well as the HP one. dont use as much ink, though, the cartridges, are getting harder to find ..
no company, including HP, likes a printer, that last this long. and low on resources.,


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