# Building a mobo from scratch?



## SkyKast (Sep 9, 2009)

Hey I know this is prolly crazy but if you had the proper know-how about circut boards would this be possible? And if it is has it been done? Because if it is I can see many advantages.


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## Mussels (Sep 9, 2009)

SkyKast said:


> Hey I know this is prolly crazy but if you had the proper know-how about circut boards would this be possible? And if it is has it been done? Because if it is I can see many advantages.



far too complicated for a person to make on their own.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 9, 2009)

Mussels said:


> far too complicated for a person to make on their own.



I think its a great idea. They even sell kits for it see....







Hell heres another one.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Sep 9, 2009)

Impossible.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 9, 2009)

tigger said:


> Impossible.



Nothing is impossible. Well.....me sleeping with Angelina Jolie maybe but other than that nothings impossible.


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## BroBQ (Sep 9, 2009)

You would need to invest a large amount of money...


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## MRCL (Sep 9, 2009)

With home tools, your mobo must measure like 10 square feet to accomodate every circuit. And one mistake (which is likely to happen) could trash it. Maybe making a mobo for the earliest CPUs would be possible, but nothing halfway modern.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 9, 2009)

MRCL said:


> With home tools, your mobo must measure like 10 square feet to accomodate every circuit. And one mistake (which is likely to happen) could trash it. Maybe making a mobo for the earliest CPUs would be possible, but nothing halfway modern.



I say he could do it with the power of 10 foot groundhogs.


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## IggSter (Sep 9, 2009)

Definately possible, definately would cost about the same as a car, definately would takes years, might even work 

The biggest issues you would face are:

Mobos use a Multi-layer PCB to reduce cost and shorten signal distances.
Surface mount components (due to multi-layer PCB)


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## Deleted member 3 (Sep 9, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Nothing is impossible. Well.....me sleeping with Angelina Jolie maybe but other than that nothings impossible.



Agreed, you could do Brad Pitt. 



Designing and producing a motherboard is far too complex, a single person cannot do this. If you want to build anything, start with something simple.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 9, 2009)

I say groundhog power.


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## SkyKast (Sep 9, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I think its a great idea. They even sell kits for it see....



haha funny...


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## Duke_GuRu (Sep 9, 2009)

SkyKast said:


> haha funny...


these kits are for simple logic functions and simple circuits not for a real PC.

Well, for starters it's nice to have such ambition, but in the real world as all of them said it requires too much money, too much time, too much knowledge and i stress on knowledge. I used to teach computer architecture, computer organization, digital logic design and microcontrollers/microprocessors. and i'm telling you it's just above Angelina jolie.

i don't want to depress you but that's the truth. but if you really want to do this and you are serious about it. I will help you. start by reading this book and when you finish you should get the picture. and you are welcome to ask me anything.

good luck


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## Th0rn0 (Sep 9, 2009)

In read the title and just thought... WTF!

Its possible. YOu would need ALOT of knowledge, time and money though. Even then it might not be any good.

Alternatively, piece together parts of other boards to create some sort of Frankenboard?


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## SkyKast (Sep 9, 2009)

Duke_GuRu said:


> these kits are for simple logic functions and simple circuits not for a real PC.
> 
> Well, for starters it's nice to have such ambition, but in the real world as all of them said it requires too much money, too much time, too much knowledge and i stress on knowledge. I used to teach computer architecture, computer organization, digital logic design and microcontrollers/microprocessors. and i'm telling you it's just above Angelina jolie.
> 
> ...



well thanks for all the info anf the offer but I was never intending to do this in the first place, I am not completely irrational lol

and I think you meant to make the word "this" a link to the book or something 



Th0rn0 said:


> Alternatively, piece together parts of other boards to create some sort of Frankenboard?



not that would be more reasonable but would require just as much knowledge correct?


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## department76 (Sep 9, 2009)

impossible.  you would never get it to work, i promise.

assuming you had all the money, time, knowledge, etc. that everyone else has mentioned you would never be able to "breadboard" a working prototype becuase of factors like trace/wire length and propagation delay with the high frequencies of 1000MHz+ found all over modern motherboards.  

real companies simulate everything, then have prototype PCBs printed.  everything is application specific and attention to key details is what makes a good board a good board, i.e. compare ECS and Asus.  a lot of r&d goes into a $300 mobo vs. a $75 one.

same with the "frankenboard" idea, it might work if you're lucky but i could almost promise you it wouldn't.  imagine the physical proportions of that, a PCI-bus being 32 bits wide would need 32 wires per line on the bus, then think of 64-bit buses for RAM, etc.  i'd like to see you wire up the pin-outs for a socket 1366 i7.  ya, i want to see your 1,366 wires and 2,732 solder points for the cpu alone.

wiring and soldering madness.

impossible.

edit- i'm an EE student btw, you really have to take some appreciation in the complexity of even the simplest cheapo motherboard.  maybe i'm arrogant for saying it, but even suggesting this idea is ignorance at best.


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## SkyKast (Sep 9, 2009)

department76 said:


> edit- i'm an EE student btw, you really have to take some appreciation in the complexity of even the simplest cheapo motherboard.



holy shit...I do appreciate it!

I was just wondering if it was plausible and if it was what it would entail


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## department76 (Sep 9, 2009)

SkyKast said:


> holy shit...I do appreciate it!
> 
> I was just wondering if it was plausible and if it was what it would entail



just saying, lol.  in that case i deem it non-plausible


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## lemonadesoda (Sep 9, 2009)

There is more chance of you winning the lottery than being able to build even the SIMPLEST mainboard, even for a 8086 let alone a 386, 486, Pentium, Core 2, or Nehalem.

So my advice is: play the lottery.

If you WIN, you could COMMISSION a mainboard designer/manufacturer to build you one the way you want it.

But IF you could afford to COMMISSION, you could save a lot of money and just buy a 4 socket xeon dunnington 8 core = 32, 64GB, SSD RAID array, and you wouldnt be wanting/needing to build anything yourself.


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## douglatins (Sep 9, 2009)

Wow no fu#$%ing wat hehe


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## EnglishLion (Sep 14, 2009)

even in companies like ASUS MSI etc.  There's no one person that can 'make' a motherboard.  All motherboards are considered, designed, built etc by many people all doing their own little bit.  No one person on their own would be able to achieve this even with the necessary plant/tools etc...


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 14, 2009)

EnglishLion said:


> even in companies like ASUS MSI etc.  There's no one person that can 'make' a motherboard.  All motherboards are considered, designed, built etc by many people all doing their own little bit.  No one person on their own would be able to achieve this even with the necessary plant/tools etc...



Batman could.


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## 95Viper (Sep 14, 2009)

McGuyver could w/ paper clips and gum wrappers...




I don't believe it would be plausible for the home hobbyist.


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## RadeonX2 (Sep 14, 2009)

you'd need a robot mobo maker/builder just like the mobo factory have not yourself


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## MohawkAngel (Sep 14, 2009)

My brother could because hes so genius in designing electronic. He was hired in home electronic thermostat factory fo production he was so good they decided to transfer him to Research and development department after only 1 month.Thats a normal work but he dont want to work somewhere else for cash hes too happy with that simple work.  Ok he could yes but with time  and a big place lol.He is able to solder and unsolder even the smallest resistor on a motherboard.
Like me ..i would be able to fuly build a car from paper to metal but i dont have the space,  the cash and the money.


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## Mussels (Sep 14, 2009)

MohawkAngel said:


> My brother could because hes so genius in designing electronic. He was hired in home electronic thermostat factory fo production he was so good they decided to transfer him to Research and development department after only 1 month.Thats a normal work but he dont want to work somewhere else for cash hes too happy with that simple work.  Ok he could yes but with time  and a big place lol.He is able to solder and unsolder even the smallest resistor on a motherboard.
> Like me ..i would be able to fuly build a car from paper to metal but i dont have the space,  the cash and the money.



even if he has the skills, he cant do anything without really expensive equipment - and the design process takes months, and is easy to screw up (if it was easy, why do you think theres so many crap mobos on the market )


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## MohawkAngel (Sep 14, 2009)

I know he built his own chip programation device so its at least a good start  but yeah ti take more than  that hehe Theres is also many crap mobos on the market because ECS is still producing


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## Velvet Wafer (Sep 14, 2009)

if you want to build something yourself,start with a vga... it must be much easier, due to lessened amount of component circuits. ive seen a guy soldering an 4850 mosfet area on a 6800. it got major overclocked after that. with a little knowledge and experience, you maybe can connect ram chips,caps etc to the circuit...

imagine a frankencard,with major graphics power ;-)


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## ste2425 (Sep 14, 2009)

Velvet Wafer said:


> if you want to build something yourself,start with a vga... it must be much easier, due to lessened amount of component circuits. ive seen a guy soldering an 4850 mosfet area on a 6800. it got major overclocked after that. with a little knowledge and experience, you maybe can connect ram chips,caps etc to the circuit...
> 
> imagine a frankencard,with major graphics power ;-)



so wat, your saying people have added axtra ram etc to vga cards themselves?


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## Yukikaze (Sep 14, 2009)

ste2425 said:


> so wat, your saying people have added axtra ram etc to vga cards themselves?



Hey. I got sigged and never knew it 

You ain't ever going to build a motherboard for a modern system all by yourself. 

Getting a single NIC designed and produced takes a large team of dedicated professionals and over a year of development time, getting just the motherboard layout right is going to take at least the same amount of effort and manpower.


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## Velvet Wafer (Sep 14, 2009)

ste2425 said:


> so wat, your saying people have added axtra ram etc to vga cards themselves?



i dont know if they did (only the mosfet thing), but if you take a look at the bottom of a memory ic, you will find out, that it are only 30 solder dots or so. few enough to solder with an iron. the dots arent that small, when youre an expert. im not capable of doing so,tho


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## MKmods (Sep 14, 2009)

SkyKast, goofy ideas like this are why cool things get invented in the first place.

 Keep dreaming them up

Another thought is to figure a better replacement of a mobo, what would make it better/easier to use.


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## ste2425 (Sep 14, 2009)

Yukikaze said:


> Hey. I got sigged and never knew it
> 
> .



haha it made me laugh so i call that sig worthy

maybe i should ave asked? hmmmmm


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## larrymoencurly (Sep 15, 2009)

Byte magazine ran an article about that in the 1980s or early 1990s.  It was by Steve Ciarcia, who now publishes Circuit Cellar.  I think it was for an 8088 XT or 80286 AT mobo.


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## SkyKast (Sep 15, 2009)

and? what was the outcome of the article?


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## AK|CROWBAR|47 (Sep 16, 2009)

lol you would have to solder everything yourself.............
I hope you have VERY still hands


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## Bot (Sep 16, 2009)

well, designing it including the circuitry would be possible but as mentioned turning it into an actual board would be expensive and you probably order at least 1k to even have the company considering printing the circuits for you.
actually physically making it yourself is virtually impossible without the proper tool, machines and facilities.

something like this .. maybe
http://www.dubel.org/computer/


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## SkyKast (Sep 16, 2009)

thanks for the link thats really interesting


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## Cuzza (Sep 16, 2009)

this thread is a good read.  ridiculous, but interesting,



MKmods said:


> SkyKast, goofy ideas like this are why cool things get invented in the first place.
> 
> Keep dreaming them up
> 
> Another thought is to figure a better replacement of a mobo, what would make it better/easier to use.



I have wondered, why don't we have mobos with CPU socket and a GPU socket? And slots for graphics memory? Then you could customize exactly what you want. No messing around with graphics cards. you could have one big heatsink to cool both chips, cheaper overall costs, lower profile for slim cases, less power leads, lots of advantages. But i bet it doesn't work. Because if it worked, it would have been done. So what's wrong with the concept?


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## SkyKast (Sep 16, 2009)

Cuzza said:


> I have wondered, why don't we have mobos with CPU socket and a GPU socket? And slots for graphics memory? Then you could customize exactly what you want. No messing around with graphics cards. you could have one big heatsink to cool both chips, *cheaper overall costs*, lower profile for slim cases, less power leads, lots of advantages. But i bet it doesn't work. Because if it worked, it would have been done. So what's wrong with the concept?



I'd be willing to bet that that is why...

but nice idea!


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## Yukikaze (Sep 16, 2009)

Cuzza said:


> I have wondered, why don't we have mobos with CPU socket and a GPU socket? And slots for graphics memory? Then you could customize exactly what you want. No messing around with graphics cards. you could have one big heatsink to cool both chips, cheaper overall costs, lower profile for slim cases, less power leads, lots of advantages. But i bet it doesn't work. Because if it worked, it would have been done. So what's wrong with the concept?



It would require standardization of GPU sockets and GPU RAM sticks, and GPUs evolve a lot quicker than CPUs. It is a workable solution, but it would also require coordination and cooperation between many companies, many of them in direct competition with each other. It would also require new cooling setups.

It is kinda like we're still using the x86 instruction set. Perhaps there is something better, but it is hard to justify the costs of the change.

And PCI-E is as generic as it gets. Imagine if you had to switch motherboards to not just change a CPU but also to change a GPU to a newer socket or a newer standard of VRAM.


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## Frick (Sep 16, 2009)

Bot said:


> something like this .. maybe
> http://www.dubel.org/computer/



Awesome guy! I will spend two years in school learning that stuff, it will be awesome. Thank's for the link!


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## department76 (Sep 16, 2009)

rofl.  silly old 486 hardly counts as a computer nowadays therefor i wouldn't consider that anything close to hand-building a modern computer ;-)

my senior design project is more complicated than that little 486 build, using the Atmel ATmega 3290p which is also much more versatile and complex than the 486.  given that's not a fair comparison, when comparing the design work and "wiring" needed that 486 build's a walk in the park.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 16, 2009)

department76 said:


> rofl.  silly old 486 hardly counts as a computer nowadays therefor i wouldn't consider that anything close to hand-building a modern computer ;-)
> 
> my senior design project is more complicated than that little 486 build, using the Atmel ATmega 3290p which is also much more versatile and complex than the 486.  given that's not a fair comparison, when comparing the design work and "wiring" needed that 486 build's a walk in the park.



You own a Zune. What the hell do you know.


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## Frick (Sep 16, 2009)

department76 said:


> rofl.  silly old 486 hardly counts as a computer nowadays therefor i wouldn't consider that anything close to hand-building a modern computer ;-)
> 
> my senior design project is more complicated than that little 486 build, using the Atmel ATmega 3290p which is also much more versatile and complex than the 486.  given that's not a fair comparison, when comparing the design work and "wiring" needed that 486 build's a walk in the park.



It can run Tetris and NES emulators so QFT! 

Seriously though, building and programming a functional computer, even an 486, is pretty awesome.


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## dr emulator (madmax) (Sep 16, 2009)

Mussels said:


> even if he has the skills, he cant do anything without really expensive equipment - and the design process takes months, and is easy to screw up (if it was easy, why do you think theres so many crap mobos on the market )




 this little project took me months to build(but there again i was making it by hand  ) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



ooh it also had a massive 16 kilobytes of memory most of you kids probably have never heard of that ey
 
and here's the diagram 
yes that circuit boards taty and has a nice crack in it but what did you expect a rembrandt 
( and this was just a single sided pcb for a simple voice recorder, i made that when i was 18 )
pc motherboards however are multilayered, according to google between 6 to 9 layersso there's a few connections for you to link up 
 if anyone's wondering why this post is a mess, it's because i couldn't post any other pics, so i had to use the attachments button


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## SkyKast (Sep 16, 2009)

holy shit thats amazing thanks for posting that! very interesting!

did you have any training before you went at that or did you teach yourself?


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## KH0UJ (Sep 17, 2009)

SkyKast said:


> Hey I know this is prolly crazy but if you had the proper know-how about circut boards would this be possible? And if it is has it been done? Because if it is I can see many advantages.



Definitely possible, motherboards are only made by people, what`s the difference with thier brain power and our brain power right?
the main confusion on it is how they assemble it, mainboards are also designed by computers, that`s why its so easy for them to fabricate one, (CAD PCB auto routing software) first you need to study each and every component you like to use, I.C. pin configurations and everything then plot it on your desired PCB measurements then the process is all automated after that, chopper coils, resistors, capacitors, and all the other components are also autorouted as well depending on the desired placement, they even have a machine to test and simulate each and every circuit before the final production starts, last time it takes 5 mastered teams to create 1 mainboard finished product to test it in the actual before mass production, its very impossible for them too to create one without the automation processes, but for us, if we study their each and every machine that designs the mainboards, i bet we have a better output product than them, because for us we design it for our wants, they design it for needs, for them the cheaper the better, for us the durability and the component life span and the speed greatly matters just like building a super car each and every component is a state-of-the-art, anything that`s not related to durability and speed is all trashed


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## dr emulator (madmax) (Sep 17, 2009)

SkyKast said:


> holy shit thats amazing thanks for posting that! very interesting!
> 
> did you have any training before you went at that or did you teach yourself?



no didn't have any training i suppose you could say i'm self taught although not a genious (ha wish i was) the hardest part of that board was marking the pcb with a thick etch resistant pen, although it is easy to rub the marks of if you make mistakes.
there are alsorts of small projects to build out there usually from electronics stores


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## KH0UJ (Sep 17, 2009)

MKmods said:


> SkyKast, goofy ideas like this are why cool things get invented in the first place.
> 
> Keep dreaming them up
> 
> Another thought is to figure a better replacement of a mobo, what would make it better/easier to use.



I agree each and every circuit designs came from simple circuits, and all the way to the complex designs, mankind`s capability to design things are getting complex and complex, thus sometimes forgetting the convenience and ease of access to use


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## MKmods (Sep 17, 2009)

SkyKast said:


> holy shit thats amazing thanks for posting that! very interesting!
> 
> did you have any training before you went at that or did you teach yourself?



when I was a kid (back in the 60's)I remember getting a simple version of one of these for Xmas...
http://www.homeschoolingsupply.com/elenco-electronics/science-kits-mx-909.htm

I am sorry I never took it serious and continued. The new versions have computer circuits on them


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## KH0UJ (Sep 17, 2009)

dr emulator (madmax) said:


> no didn't have any training i suppose you could say i'm self taught although not a genious (ha wish i was) the hardest part of that board was marking the pcb with a thick etch resistant pen, although it is easy to rub the marks of if you make mistakes.
> there are alsorts of small projects to build out there usually from electronics stores



PCB etching on mainboards are also the with the simple process bro, they still print it on a photo stencil and dip it on acid, the same with the simple PCB etching technique, only thing is its accelerated more precised and fast process cause its all automated I bet even the manufacturers cannot do it without their automated machineries good for us we know the basics on it operating machineries is a simple task IMO, designing it manually is a big challenge


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## SkyKast (Sep 17, 2009)

MKmods said:


> when I was a kid (back in the 60's)I remember getting a simple version of one of these for Xmas...
> http://www.homeschoolingsupply.com/elenco-electronics/science-kits-mx-909.htm
> 
> I am sorry I never took it serious and continued. The new versions have computer circuits on them



yeah man, I got one of those too a few years back...when I was a kid lol in the 2000's

but I loved it, but it was much simpler then that one and I was like 12 so I wasnt AS interested in this stuff...I want to find it now dust it off and play with it


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## KH0UJ (Sep 17, 2009)

dr emulator (madmax) said:


> no didn't have any training i suppose you could say i'm self taught although not a genious (ha wish i was) the hardest part of that board was marking the pcb with a thick etch resistant pen, although it is easy to rub the marks of if you make mistakes.
> there are alsorts of small projects to build out there usually from electronics stores



I bet you if you adapt the manufacturer`s technique and plot it on the auto routing and photo stencil they use, you can finish it in 10 minutes I also made PCB`s before but the hard way masking tape then draw the lines, then cut the undesired tape paths then dip it in the ferric chloride for 5 minutes then drill each and every holes to put the components


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## TechnicalFreak (Sep 18, 2009)

SkyKast said:


> Hey I know this is prolly crazy but if you had the proper know-how about circut boards would this be possible? And if it is has it been done? Because if it is I can see many advantages.



Electronics Workbench? But then, the "tools" needed to get everything on will be rather expensive. A solder iron will do until you reach a circuit that needs to be soldered on the mainboard directly.

Can't remember the company name at the moment (can look it up) but they sold something that almost looked as it "stitched" the legs of say a northbridge onto a motherboard..


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## r9 (Sep 18, 2009)

While you are at it why not built CPU and VGA to


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