# How to quickly & easily fix coil-whine(coil choke noise)



## lexluthermiester (Apr 19, 2022)

A forum user recently asked about Coil Whine, which is the noise a choke coil sometimes makes as it operates. This almost always a video card problem, but can happen on any other computer or electronics components employing a choke in it's circuitry, including power supplies.

I have for decades been using a very easy, quick and, most importantly, permanent fix. This fix works 95% of the time to quiet the noise to the point that it is not audible more than 8inches/20cm away. The rest of the time, the noise is barely audible.

A word of caution! If your part is under warranty, you may wish to consider doing an RMA. Most manufacturers actually want the noisy part back so they can test and analyze it for re-engineering to improve future designs. If your part is NOT under warranty, read on...

What you need:
Any tools required to disassemble the part to access the choke coils in question.
One container of cyanoacrylate based glue, commonly known as "Super Glue".

The brand of super glue you choose is not important. The type is. The type must be of low viscosity so it can quickly wick into the empty spaces between the choke coil and the board it's soldered to. The applicator having a narrow tip nozzle is important as it will make applying the glue more precise. See below.

In this photo you can see how I'm applying the glue directly into the gap.





It's important to use enough glue to completely wick the entire edge of the choke. Then you let it cure for at least an hour(while super glue sets in seconds it still needs an hour or two to fully cure).

Once cured the fix is complete. And you're good to go! Put everything back together and enjoy.


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## gwynbleidd997 (Apr 19, 2022)

Thank you for sharing this.
Did you happen to check what frequency the noise emitted from this choke(s) had? I'm just wondering if it's the same noise that I'm having right now (10kHz and 20kHz) and does it grow stronger when the GPU is under load? (for me GPU load doesn't matter, idle or not, it's always there with the same amplitude)


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 19, 2022)

gwynbleidd997 said:


> Did you happen to check what frequency the noise emitted from this choke(s) had? I'm just wondering if it's the same noise that I'm having right now (10kHz and 20kHz) and does it grow stronger when the GPU is under load?


Sounds about right for GPU coil whine. However...


gwynbleidd997 said:


> (for me GPU load doesn't matter, idle or not, it's always there with the same amplitude)


...this would indicate it might be a motherboard choke or even a choke in the PSU. The above fix can be applied to each, but before you open up your PSU, make sure it's discharged. Unplug the power cord, press the system power button to drain the PSU capacitors fully. Then you're good. Same principles of glue application apply.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 19, 2022)

Is the noise the chokes vibrating?


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## Courier 6 (Apr 19, 2022)

Tigger said:


> Is the noise the chokes vibrating?


yes, it is, it´s the same as an old transformer, like the 60 or 50Hz hum you hear from it


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 19, 2022)

Tigger said:


> Is the noise the chokes vibrating?


It's actually the wire coils vibrating in the choke, normally. AFAIK.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 20, 2022)

Should be able to use hot glue as well.


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## Shrek (Apr 20, 2022)

eidairaman1 said:


> Should be able to use hot glue as well.



Hot glue melts at a rather low temperature and would not flow into the coils.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 20, 2022)

Tigger said:


> Is the noise the chokes vibrating?


Quite literally.


TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> It's actually the wire coils vibrating in the choke, normally. AFAIK.


Exactly.


eidairaman1 said:


> Should be able to use hot glue as well.


No. Hot glue is too viscous and the heat from the hot glue could potentially be damaging...


Shrek said:


> and would not flow into the coils.


...and also this. Super glue wicks into the empty spaces and seals air flow so the vibrations have no exit. The vibration energy is dissipated within the coil and any resulting noise is muffled by the coil choke walls.


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## mechtech (Apr 20, 2022)

I had an old seasonic platinum psu with this issue.  I never did tear it apart, although it could have been one of the transformers also.  I was going to encase the entire thing in epoxy, but that would ahve been expensive and probably would have overheated and cooked lol


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## MarsM4N (Apr 20, 2022)

There are also non invasive methods to eliminate/reduce coil whine. *Undervolting* & *FPS cap*:










You can also try first to figure out if the coil whine comes from the GPU or the power supply, f.e. with *Furmark* for a GPU stress test & *Prime95* for a CPU stress test.



eidairaman1 said:


> Should be able to use hot glue as well.



That's what worked on older cards with open coils. The newer cards have all coils hidden under caps. But on a PSU you still can do it that way.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 20, 2022)

MarsM4N said:


> There are also non invasive methods to eliminate/reduce coil whine. *Undervolting* & *FPS cap*:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Glad you saw what i was talking about


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## R-T-B (Apr 20, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> No. Hot glue is too viscous and the heat from the hot glue could potentially be damaging...


I used to use black automotive RTV sealant for this, back when I had to fix a bad coil transformer in a big ass 55" Panasonic plasma screen that sounded like an electric bug zapper or something.  I don't know if it's better, but it's more electronically safe I think than glue.  Not that either is particularly dangerous, but I was just being extra careful (I was once on a pretty fixed budget).

The thing about the RTV sealant is it "gives" a bit when it hardens (becomes rather rubbery), so you tend to need to use gobs and gobs of it.  Unless the surface area is huge like mine, your idea is probably better.  Good guide.


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## Shrek (Apr 20, 2022)

Some RTV sealants release acetic acid (vinegar) when curing; this is lethal for electronics.


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## Bill_Bright (Apr 20, 2022)

Nice little tutorial, Lex. 

I will add this tip works for noisy and vibrating transformer plates too. And so does hot glue too - "*IF*" you do your homework and use the right type and temperature hot glue sticks. 


eidairaman1 said:


> Should be able to use hot glue as well.





Shrek said:


> Hot glue melts at a rather low temperature and would not flow into the coils.


eidairaman1 is correct - depending on the device and glue used. 

As can be seen here, many circuit board coils use large, and exposed, wires. These coils typically are permanently fixed in place with epoxy resins at the factory - as are transformer plates. However, some devices may not have had the resins applied properly or thoroughly. Or sometimes, due to abuse, or perhaps rough handling during transport, those windings (or plates) break loose. Even years of heat up and cool down cycles can cause the bonds to break loose. 

Hot glue works very well in those applications. Contrary to some of the comments ASSUMING YOU USE THE CORRECT HOT GLUE, it is not too hot and will not damage the device. Nor will it melt when you don't want it to. 

"Low temperature" hot glue sticks are designed to melt at variety of temps. Some melt well below 90°C and are even marketed as "child safe" for arts and crafts projects. But those rated around 120° to 130°C work great for electronics. Hot enough to avoid remelting during normal equipment use, but not too hot to cause damage during application. It cools and sets quickly too. And the force applied when squeezing the glue gun trigger is enough to "inject" the glue into the gaps for an effective vibration and noise suppression solution. 

Copper melts at 1,085°C so obviously not a problem there. And as seen here, all the most common plastics melt at much higher temps than 130°C. 

One tip learned from years doing this - operate your electronics long enough for the coil or transformer to warm up thoroughly first while your glue gun is heating up. Then quickly power down, unplug from the wall, and then apply the glue. This will allow the glue to spread more easily (and predictably) - as opposed to cooling and setting too quickly. 

I actually much prefer using hot glue sticks simply because I don't think I have ever emptied a bottle or tube of superglue before the rest hardened. 


Shrek said:


> Some RTV sealants release acetic acid (vinegar) when curing; this is lethal for electronics.


Then, just as Lex points out with superglue, and I point out with hot glue, you must do your homework and buy the right kind.  There are silicone adhesive/sealants designed for electronics too. 

However, I would never use that for coils or transformers. I am sure it would work - if properly applied. But most typically take at least 24 hours curing time before you can use the device, and even several days more curing time to reach maximum strength. Superglue and hot glue take a few seconds.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 20, 2022)

MarsM4N said:


> *Undervolting* & *FPS cap*


In my experience, that not only doesn't work, it boarders on being "Smoke & Mirrors" kind of thing.

Coil whine generally exists when a system is NOT under load. Creating a load just makes it louder. The proper solution is to seal the coil so that the vibrations being generated can not produce sound, or produce much less sound.


MarsM4N said:


> That's what worked on older cards with open coils. The newer cards have all coils hidden under caps. But on a PSU you still can do it that way.


While a good point, hot glue is much too imprecise and cumbersome to be effective. I've tried it. It's a PITB. Liquid Super Glue is perfect because of it's wicking and quick setting qualities. Super Glue Gel will work in a pinch, but doesn't have the same effect.



R-T-B said:


> I used to use black automotive RTV sealant for this


Have never tried that, but I imagine it would work as long as you can make a perfect(or near perfect) seal.


R-T-B said:


> but it's more electronically safe I think than glue.


Super Glue is not dangerous to electronics, is chemically inert once cured and is a perfect electrical insulator.


R-T-B said:


> Unless the surface area is huge like mine, your idea is probably better.


And this is because of the way Super Glue wicks into the cracks and seams before it cures.



Shrek said:


> Some RTV sealants release acetic acid (vinegar) when curing


This is true...


Shrek said:


> this is lethal for electronics.


...this is not. I use white vinegar to clean contacts and corrosion from electronics all the time. I'm careful to clean up excess, but what isn't wiped away evaporates within an hour or so. The type of acid that seeps out of RTV sealant evaporates quickly and is in such a low amount that anything that might get trapped(enclosed) would be harmless.


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## Bill_Bright (Apr 20, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> ...this is not. I use white vinegar to clean contacts and corrosion from electronics all the time.


I agree and do too. Pure vinegar has been used to clean corrosion off battery terminals, probably since the invention of the battery. Diluted 50/50 with water works great on corroded electrical contacts. Full strength if really corroded. Then wipe with a clean damp cloth, or a quick blast with electrical contact cleaner and be good to go. 

A tablespoon with 24 ounces of demineralized water and a clean 100% cotton microfiber cloth works great on monitor screens too. 

And I agree once again with Lex (we are on a roll today!  about undervolting. It might stop it, or at least make it inaudible. But it does NOT "fix" the problem. The problem is physical - loose coil windings or transformer plates vibrating and generating noise. You can undervolt all you want. They will still be loose. 

So the only way to "fix" (as in "repair") the problem is to "fix" (as in "hold in place") those loose items.


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## Shrek (Apr 20, 2022)

Can silicone sealant be used to insulate and waterproof electronic components? (newbedev.com)

"If it smells like vinegar then it's acid cure."

"Do not use "acid cure" silicone rubber for electronics."


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 20, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Can silicone sealant be used to insulate and waterproof electronic components? (newbedev.com)
> 
> "If it smells like vinegar then it's acid cure."
> 
> "Do not use "acid cure" silicone rubber for electronics."


Interesting. Good to know!


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## Bill_Bright (Apr 20, 2022)

Shrek said:


> "Do not use "acid cure" silicone rubber for electronics."


All you are doing, Andy, is verifying what was said before. We must do our homework first to ensure we buy products that are safe to be used for whatever we are doing. 

In this case, make sure you only buy electronic grade silicone sealants and adhesives. They are easy to find. 

And I will point out that there are even many silicone adhesive TIMs (thermal interface materials) that are specifically designed to glue heat sinks on to devices that do not use a mechanical heat sink mounting mechanism. For example, MasterSil 705TC Silicone Adhesive or Easycargo Heatsink with Silicone Thermal Glue Kit.


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## R-T-B (Apr 20, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Some RTV sealants release acetic acid (vinegar) when curing; this is lethal for electronics.


The one I used said it was safe for electronics.  Anyhow, obviously verify, and probably just don't do what I did, because SuperGlue is just better.



Bill_Bright said:


> But most typically take at least 24 hours curing time before you can use the device, and even several days more curing time to reach maximum strength. Superglue and hot glue take a few seconds.


Yeah, there are a few reasons Lex's approach here is far better.  I was indeed without a TV for a good day.


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## ThaiTaffy (Apr 21, 2022)

I'm curious about this, I'm not a fan of using super glue near heat sources as the fumes given off by cooked super glue can be pretty brutal so I'll try some solder mask. But I have a led controller that sounds like an RC car so it went in a cupboard, I'll find it later and test.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 21, 2022)

ThaiTaffy said:


> I'm not a fan of using super glue near heat sources as the fumes given off by cooked super glue can be pretty brutal


This does not happen after curing is complete, which takes a day or two. I've smelled this kind of problem and I've used this on my personal and family equipment.


ThaiTaffy said:


> so I'll try some solder mask.


I'll bet that works well! Solder mask is generally a low viscosity enamel-ish paint type coating, so it'll wick into cracks and seams very well. Downside, it will take a day of dry/curing time. Super Glue is good to go in an hour. Still, far be from me to tell people what to do with their own stuff. I once used model enamel paint because I was out of super glue, and it worked. I had to thin it out a bit to get the wicking effect and I later did a second coat, still it worked well.


Note to other users, this thread was created to share an effective and easy fix with everyone. Alternate methods & suggestions are always welcome. However, let's keep things friendly and welcoming. Thank You!


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## Shrek (Apr 21, 2022)

ThaiTaffy said:


> I'm curious about this, I'm not a fan of using super glue near heat sources as the fumes given off by cooked super glue can be pretty brutal so I'll try some solder mask.



Try transformer varnish


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 21, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Try transformer varnish


That would likely work well too!


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## Mussels (Apr 21, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> In my experience, that not only doesn't work, it boarders on being "Smoke & Mirrors" kind of thing.
> 
> Coil whine generally exists when a system is NOT under load. Creating a load just makes it louder. The proper solution is to seal the coil so that the vibrations being generated can not produce sound, or produce much less sound.


I've only ever heard two types, one at very low loads (moving mouse around, etc - usually mobo) and one at high unbalanced load (loading screens in game, usually GPU or PSU)

IME, the idle one is more common

Good guide, i hadnt thought of superglue soaking 'in' the coils and use hotglue outside them when i've ran into this


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Good guide


Thank You.


Mussels said:


> use hotglue outside them when i've ran into this


Weird. I've never been able to make hot glue work well. Maybe I was using the wrong type? I used my the glue and gun my wife used for her crafts and stuff.


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## Bill_Bright (Apr 21, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Weird. I've never been able to make hot glue work well. Maybe I was using the wrong type?


There are certainly different types designed for different purposes and melting points.

As noted above, glue sticks rated for 120 - 130°C work best for this purpose. And while that is still considered a "low temperature" glue, it is  higher than many sticks rated for "arts and crafts" which may be closer to 90°C.

Or you might have had high temperature glue in a low temperature gun and the melted glue was thin enough for a crafts project, but too thick to get squeezed in between the windings enough.

Also, note the trick I suggested above - make sure the coils (or transformer plates) are warmed up first. Transformer plates especially (even though the plates are made of steel) when cold would zap the heat (and fluidity) out of the glue quickly. Careful blasting with a hot air gun (or hair dryer) works well for that too.

Another possibility was an incorrect strategic placement of tongue! 

Way back in the early 70s in tech school, we were taught to use epoxy putty on transformer plates as a permanent solution. But one of the problems with epoxy is the same as with RTV; it needs 24 hours to cure. And in the military, when a mission critical system, in this case, radio frequency, is "down", waiting 24 hours is unacceptable. So we started using hot glue guns with great success. 

Another problem with epoxy putty is once cured, it really is permanent. With hot glue, and a robust thumb nail. most of the hot glue can be removed, if needed.



ThaiTaffy said:


> I'm not a fan of using super glue near heat sources as the fumes given off by cooked super glue can be pretty brutal


I don't see this being a problem. You are only talking a couple drops of super glue. I would just be cautious about standing directly over the device the first time it is fired up - which to me, should be a lesson learned during its application when the fumes are really bad.


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## ThaiTaffy (Apr 22, 2022)

@lexluthermiester "Love ya, dude" followed your advice exactly didn't have the time to mess around with my UV mask so went for super-glue forgot about it for a day and just saw it now plugged it in with a load and nothing!!! Not a peep!!!

Might get that pile of crap thermaltake PSU I have, out of the cupboard and take a look!


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## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 22, 2022)

Isn't this kinda why you see glue like stuff around big caps on amplifier circuits?


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 22, 2022)

ThaiTaffy said:


> @lexluthermiester "Love ya, dude" followed your advice exactly didn't have the time to mess around with my UV mask so went for super-glue forgot about it for a day and just saw it now plugged it in with a load and nothing!!! Not a peep!!!


You're welcome, glad it helped!



Tigger said:


> Isn't this kinda why you see glue like stuff around big caps on amplifier circuits?


Generally speaking, yes.


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## Kissamies (Apr 22, 2022)

I wish I've known this trick ~10 years ago, my GTX 470 SOC which I had then, made louder coil whine noise than all the other cards I've had combined.

Good card otherwise back then.


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## Wirko (Apr 22, 2022)

Tigger said:


> Isn't this kinda why you see glue like stuff around big caps on amplifier circuits?


Possibly, but that glue has a more important role, which is to help carry the weight of capacitors (and other heavy components). Solder joints aren't very good at that, the solder has little mechanical strength and it gets worse with age and repeated strain/vibration.

I'd love to know what that black glue in old hi-fi stuff is. After several decades, it shows no signs of decay, never comes off, remains a bit elastic and looks like it had been applied with a paintbrush rather than glue gun.


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## Athlonite (Apr 22, 2022)

R-T-B said:


> I used to use black automotive RTV sealant for this, back when I had to fix a bad coil transformer in a big ass 55" Panasonic plasma screen that sounded like an electric bug zapper or something.  I don't know if it's better, but it's more electronically safe I think than glue.  Not that either is particularly dangerous, but I was just being extra careful (I was once on a pretty fixed budget).
> 
> The thing about the RTV sealant is it "gives" a bit when it hardens (becomes rather rubbery), so you tend to need to use gobs and gobs of it.  Unless the surface area is huge like mine, your idea is probably better.  Good guide.


that sounds more like a crack in the transformer allowing air to get in and an arc to start (the buzzing fly zapper noise) it used to be a common problem with CRT TV's usually shortly after moving house


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## Sithaer (Apr 22, 2022)

I heard about the hot glue method before but not the super glue, kinda interesting.

My current GPU under my specs has a very weird way of whining, its not the typical coil whine but more like a lower buzz and it only happens when the fans spin so not necessarily under 3D load.
Tried that while in desktop and rasied the fan speed in MSI Afterburner and it started that noise same as in games.

Its not that annoying since I'm using a headset and its not a high pitched noise but still I'm wondering whats the deal with that. _'Apparently the previous owner wasn't even aware of this, he kept his PC further away than I do'
_
Other than that I had a coil whiny Cooler Master PSU before that had a low pitched whine as long as my PC wasn't completely powered off, that means I had to switch the PSU button off every night when I went to the bed cause I could hear that in my bed.. _'I have sensitive ears'_

Also lest say I would go for this, how do I tell which 'coil' is the whiny one or just go all out and glue all of them? _'I'm not an expert to know a PCB and its components in detail and my current GPU is a rather overbuilt one'_


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## Mussels (Apr 23, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Thank You.
> 
> Weird. I've never been able to make hot glue work well. Maybe I was using the wrong type? I used my the glue and gun my wife used for her crafts and stuff.


I wasn't using them on this type of square thingy, more the ones with exposed coils

I am absolutely a troglodyte with electronics, my PSU has half a stick of hot glue to stop the whine i got with the aorus 3080 (that immediately went away when i got the 3090)


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 23, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I wasn't using them on this type of square thingy, more the ones with exposed coils
> 
> I am absolutely a troglodyte with electronics, my PSU has half a stick of hot glue to stop the whine i got with the aorus 3080 (that immediately went away when i got the 3090)


Well, the good thing is, hot glue is easily removed if you want to try this method.


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## Bill_Bright (Apr 23, 2022)

Athlonite said:


> that sounds more like a crack in the transformer allowing air to get in and an arc to start


I don't believe that is what is happening. First, transformers are not sealed devices - except for large, oil filled transformers and in that case, if there was a crack, you would see oil or at least oil stains where the oil has seeped out. So air getting in is not an issue. In fact, if anything, transformers depend on air for cooling. 

Also, air is a very effective insulator. So if a crack appeared, that would create a gap. It takes a lot of "potential" for voltage to jump (arc) across a gap. The bigger the gap, the more voltage is needed to jump that gap. If voltage in a transformer is arcing, that would be due to a short (not open) somewhere and most likely the system would not be working at all. 



Athlonite said:


> it used to be a common problem with CRT TV's usually shortly after moving house


Correct! But that was because rough handling caused the coil windings or transformer plates to come loose and start vibrating. It was that vibration that made the noise, not arcing. Arcing creates a different sound, and typically is accompanied by a burning smell. 

I used to do part-time overflow work for a TV repair shop near a military base. We frequently got TVs in from service members who just transferred in to the base and now their TVs were buzzing. And it was because those sets were bounced around as they were transported across the country - or the 7 seas. 

For some larger transformer, the plates are actually bolted together so simply tightening the nuts, then applying a little loctite solved it. Other times, hot glue did the trick. 

And BTW, it was not because they were "CRT" TVs that this was not an uncommon problem. It was because CRT TVs were big, bulky, and heavy, along with the fact they needed 17,000 or more (25,000 plus!!!) volts on the anode of the tube. And that required big, heavy transformers that did not like being bounced around.


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## ThaiTaffy (Apr 23, 2022)

Sithaer said:


> I heard about the hot glue method before but not the super glue, kinda interesting.
> 
> My current GPU under my specs has a very weird way of whining, its not the typical coil whine but more like a lower buzz and it only happens when the fans spin so not necessarily under 3D load.
> Tried that while in desktop and rasied the fan speed in MSI Afterburner and it started that noise same as in games.
> ...


I use a tube and a mic or my ear and search for the sound.


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## MarsM4N (Apr 23, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> In my experience, that not only doesn't work, it boarders on being "Smoke & Mirrors" kind of thing.
> 
> Coil whine generally exists when a system is NOT under load. Creating a load just makes it louder. The proper solution is to seal the coil so that the vibrations being generated can not produce sound, or produce much less sound.



I did read many reports claiming that a *FPS cap *drastically reduced coil whine. It works esp. in low demanding games where you hit 240-1000fps. Which makes sense, since in higher FPS the hertz rate increates, resulting in qicker vibrating coils, which is the reason for coil whine.

Sure a manual hardware fix would be ideal, some folks just do not want to take the risk of damaging their stuff.   So it's worth a shot.



Bill_Bright said:


> All you are doing, Andy, is verifying what was said before. We must do our homework first to ensure we buy products that are safe to be used for whatever we are doing.
> 
> In this case, make sure you only buy electronic grade silicone sealants and adhesives. They are easy to find.
> 
> And I will point out that there are even many silicone adhesive TIMs (thermal interface materials) that are specifically designed to glue heat sinks on to devices that do not use a mechanical heat sink mounting mechanism. For example, MasterSil 705TC Silicone Adhesive or Easycargo Heatsink with Silicone Thermal Glue Kit.



Is that the stuff PSU manufacturers use in their PSU's? Because that would be the ideal I suppose.


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## Bill_Bright (Apr 23, 2022)

MarsM4N said:


> Is that the stuff PSU manufacturers use in their PSU's? Because that would be the ideal I suppose.


There's several different "stuffs" in there so I have no clue what "stuff" in PSUs you are talking about. That said, I am sure it is hot glue simply because it is very inexpensive compared to many other adhesives, and it sets quickly - which is very important when it comes to production. Time is money so having to wait for anything to set and cure costs money.


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## MarsM4N (Apr 23, 2022)

Bill_Bright said:


> There's several different "stuffs" in there so I have no clue what "stuff" in PSUs you are talking about. That said, I am sure it is hot glue simply because it is very inexpensive compared to many other adhesives, and it sets quickly - which is very important when it comes to production. Time is money so having to wait for anything to set and cure costs money.



I mean the stuff f.e. like you can *see here*, it's all over the place. Sometimes it's black, looks very "rubbery". For sure no hot glue.


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## Bill_Bright (Apr 23, 2022)

What a mess!  That's hot glue done by a 3 year old. I see why too. Look on top of the two transformers - one word says it all: Bestec!  

My advice is to buy a quality PSU from EVGA or Seasonic, then pull that one and use it for testing fans, drive motors, and as a very temporary spare.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 24, 2022)

MarsM4N said:


> I did read many reports claiming that a *FPS cap *drastically reduced coil whine.


I have never seen that. Coil whine that is emitted from GPU's does increase with GPU load, sure, but It when it is present it is always audible regardless of load.


MarsM4N said:


> I mean the stuff f.e. like you can *see here*, it's all over the place. Sometimes it's black, looks very "rubbery". For sure no hot glue.


That is some sloppy work, but that silicone is not for coil noise, it's to keep parts from physically touching and thus shorting. Sloppy but harmless. Properly applied, I imagine it would work ok to minimize coil noise. However, there is no "wicking" action from silicone sealant type materials and when it cures it's not a rigid as super glue and will still resonate somewhat. 

Years of experimentation with many different types of material are why I ultimately settled on super glue is the best solution to this problem. The ease of application, the chemical stability, the electrical insulation properties and the final rigidity of the physical state of the cured glue are what all work together to make it an excellent permanent solution. Thus the guide I created here.


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## Athlonite (Apr 24, 2022)

Bill_Bright said:


> I don't believe that is what is happening. First, transformers are not sealed devices - except for large, oil filled transformers and in that case, if there was a crack, you would see oil or at least oil stains where the oil has seeped out. So air getting in is not an issue. In fact, if anything, transformers depend on air for cooling.
> 
> Also, air is a very effective insulator. So if a crack appeared, that would create a gap. It takes a lot of "potential" for voltage to jump (arc) across a gap. The bigger the gap, the more voltage is needed to jump that gap. If voltage in a transformer is arcing, that would be due to a short (not open) somewhere and most likely the system would not be working at all.
> 
> ...


Did you read RTB's post that I replied to did you see the bit where it said buzzing like and electric bug zapper then that's exactly what happens and if you manage to watch it while it's buzzing you'll see an electrical arc forming in the crack it was part of my Electronics Technicians course and was the high voltage transformer doing it looks really cool but you don't want to touch it unless you like the feeling of a size 700 boot in the ass


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## Bill_Bright (Apr 24, 2022)

@Athlonite - Then I am sure your electronics course taught you that you are talking about something else. Mine sure did. The sound made by electricity arcing across a gap is not coil whine (or transformer hum). They are two totally different phenomenon with two totally different causes. 

Arcing (_sparks_ flying!!!) - when not by design - is a genuine electrical fault that could result in a major catastrophe (fire!) and needs to be repaired ASAP! 

Coil whine is NOT an electrical fault and may not even be a mechanical fault. It may be annoying, but its actually a natural occurrence - like the humming of overhead high-voltage transmission lines or big power transformers as seen (and heard) at power distribution stations. The difference between a the "hum" and "whine" is simply due to the frequency. Power distribution transformers are running at 50/60Hz where coil whine may be into the 1000s of Hz. 

A bug zapper works because the bug flies in between the two electrodes thus reducing the size of the "gap". As I said above, the larger the gap, the higher the voltage potential needs to be to jump (arc) across that gap. The "juicy" (for a split second longer) bug, with its lower resistance than the air, reduces that gap allowing the high voltage electricity to jump across that gap. 

In fact, if you get up close to a bug zapper when there are no bugs around, it is still humming - and that is NOT from arcing.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 24, 2022)

Bill_Bright said:


> What a mess!  That's hot glue done by a 3 year old. I see why too. Look on top of the two transformers - one word says it all: Bestec!
> 
> My advice is to buy a quality PSU from EVGA or Seasonic, then pull that one and use it for testing fans, drive motors, and as a very temporary spare.


Bestec are known criminals


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## Bill_Bright (Apr 24, 2022)

eidairaman1 said:


> Bestec are known criminals


LOL - certainly a brand I try to avoid.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 24, 2022)

Bill_Bright said:


> LOL - certain a brand I try to avoid.


I wont use them in any build


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## Shrek (Apr 24, 2022)

MarsM4N said:


> I mean the stuff f.e. like you can *see here*, it's all over the place. Sometimes it's black, looks very "rubbery". For sure no hot glue.



When I recap a power supply I remove and don't replace the glue.


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## Bill_Bright (Apr 24, 2022)

Shrek said:


> When I recap a power supply I remove and don't replace the glue.


THIS. 

You shouldn't have to replace any glue. Nor should there be any silicone in there to keep components from touching or shorting out. They should not be moving around so how could they touch - assuming proper assembly in the first place? Even "ruggedized" electronics that meet milspecs don't slobber silicone around like that. If done at all, it is done in a deliberate manner. That screen shot looks like the tube exploded and spewed stuff everywhere, like opening a soda can after shaking it.


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## Shrek (Apr 24, 2022)

I tend to mount my large electrolytic capacitors close to the board, so they don't move around, rather than how I find them on spindly legs where they need support.

Someone once suggested that all the 'goop' was for protection during shipping, where things can get thrown around.


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## Bill_Bright (Apr 24, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Someone once suggested that all the 'goop' was for protection during shipping, where things can get thrown around.


And that's possible but it would still be deliberately placed where it can offer some protection. Look at that picture in post #42 again and no way is that junk there to protect components during shipping. 

If you look at the circuit boards of mobile devices - cell phones, tablets, laptops, automobile electronics - they don't look like that.


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## Mussels (Apr 25, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Well, the good thing is, hot glue is easily removed if you want to try this method.


I can make my SFF PC whine, with its 35W intended CPU and me throwing a 2500K in instead cause i'm insane - so i'll give this a shot later


the silicone goop thrown onto electronics is for many varied reasons, corrosion inhibition, noise reduction, keeping dust and debris off... and its cheap.
It may even go on some of these parts before the final assembly, and need protection during those steps


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## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 25, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I can make my SFF PC whine, with its 35W intended CPU and me throwing a 2500K in instead cause i'm insane - so i'll give this a shot later
> 
> 
> the silicone goop thrown onto electronics is for many varied reasons, corrosion inhibition, noise reduction, keeping dust and debris off... and its cheap.
> It may even go on some of these parts before the final assembly, and need protection during those steps



I always assumed it was to stop certain things from vibrating.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 30, 2022)

Tigger said:


> I always assumed it was to stop certain things from vibrating.


And to prevent potential shorts..


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## Valantar (Apr 30, 2022)

My 6900 XT has pretty bad coil whine. I'm in the process of checking if it's possible to RMA it for that reason, but I essentially have to take it to the closest branch of the store where I bought it to have it assessed - Powercolor doesn't handle their own RMAs in the EU, and this is the kind of thing where its ultimately a judgement call. And shipping it to them will likely take weeks to process, so it's a major hassle. If they don't accept it (or if a replacement had the same issue, which isn't unlikely), I'll have to try this. I assume the superglue in question isn't the "5 second cure" type? Any tips on specific kinds? Essentially all I can find from a quick search is instant cure, which I would expect to just prevent any wicking at all and essentially make the problem permanent.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 30, 2022)

Valantar said:


> I assume the superglue in question isn't the "5 second cure" type?


Generally, any liquid type will do the job well.


Valantar said:


> Essentially all I can find from a quick search is instant cure, which I would expect to just prevent any wicking at all and essentially make the problem permanent.


"Instant Cure" rarely means actual instant curing.


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## Bill_Bright (Apr 30, 2022)

There's a big difference between instant "set" and instant "cure". And in both cases, "instant" typically is more "marketing hype" than reality.


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## Valantar (Apr 30, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Generally, any liquid type will do the job well.
> 
> "Instant Cure" rarely means actual instant curing.





Bill_Bright said:


> There's a big difference between instant "set" and instant "cure". And in both cases, "instant" typically is more "marketing hype" than reality.


I've just got some bad experiences messing things up with glue that adheres too quickly - though the worst of that was contact cement, not superglue. (And, of course, mostly PEBKAC (or PEBGAC?)). The superglue I've got lying around now in my experience dries in a few seconds, though it depends on the application,and I've seen it be rather slow in thick layers and cramped places. And, of course, a choke isn't the easiest place for solvent to get out from. I guess I'll have to give it a try if the RMA process doesn't work out.


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## lexluthermiester (May 1, 2022)

Valantar said:


> The superglue I've got lying around now in my experience dries in a few seconds, though it depends on the application,and I've seen it be rather slow in thick layers and cramped places.


And that's the type you want to use. Contact cement is not something I would recommend as it can difficult to use in such an application.


Valantar said:


> I guess I'll have to give it a try if the RMA process doesn't work out.


Oh let me be clear, this fix and application of glue is ONLY if your card is out of warranty. If it's in warranty, send it back for replacement.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2022)

The problem perhaps is that they may feel coil whine does not warrant a replacement, since the card still working.


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## Valantar (May 1, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> And that's the type you want to use. Contact cement is not something I would recommend as it can difficult to use in such an application.


Oh, I wasn't suggesting that for this use case, it was just an example of my previous bad experiences with using the wrong type of glue.


lexluthermiester said:


> Oh let me be clear, this fix and application of glue is ONLY if your card is out of warranty. If it's in warranty, send it back for replacement.


The problem is, coil whine is typically not grounds for an RMA with most OEMs, at least not here in the EU. I've seen others (in the US, mostly) report mixed luck there as well. But obviously there's a reason why I'm trying that first.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 25, 2022)

Bumping due to a recent conversation and interest.


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## Shrek (Jun 25, 2022)

I'm still for insulating varnish; I think super glue is good to around 200°F which is rather low, while red insulating varnish is good to 180°C (356°F)

Super Glue Heat Range (Quick Guide) (glueschool.com)


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 25, 2022)

Shrek said:


> I think super glue is good to around 200°F which is rather low, while red insulating varnish is good to 180°C (356°F)


On a video card or a PSU those temps are not happening(or even close) so that aspect of performance is not relevant. The expense of varnish is a waste and the dry times a needless hassle. Super Glue is the easiest, simplest, fastest and least expensive solution one can get.


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## Shrek (Jun 25, 2022)

Correct me if I am wrong but a switched mode power supply transformer can run at above 100°C

Ah, if only the Jonny Guru site was still running.

On a separate but related thread I just bumped into:
Take your Transformer’s Temperature (Parts I & II) (mercurymagnetics.com)
"Exposure to electrical spikes can also contribute to stress on the transformer’s insulation system. If that wasn’t enough, the coils of wire inside your transformer are often beaten up by vibration! These internal vibrations sometimes cause the magnet wires to rub against each other, wearing off the insulation and causing short circuits."


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 25, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Correct me if I am wrong but a power supply transformer can run at above 100°C


Maybe a little, but nowhere near the temps you mentioned above. PSU components begin failing at and above 120c.


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## Mussels (Jun 26, 2022)

Having googled and found some weird documentation, superglue is usually safe to 100C when it starts to get soft, but without direct flame it wont ignite
After 200C it gives off nasty fumes, but so will the rest of what it's glued to, at that point.

My PSU has some whining (and i need to ID if it's the rarely on fan, or the coils) and remove my old hot glue attempt and try this. It *did* work instantly on my little SFF server box, that bugger had insane coil whine at low load.


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## Shrek (Jun 26, 2022)

How hot can VRMs get?


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 26, 2022)

Shrek said:


> How hot can VRMs get?


Nominal operation? It depends on the brand, the VRM MOSFET ratings and how it's being used. As a rule they can operate at temps up to 105Cish before beginning to degrade. However, you're not going to glue the MOSFET as it is not generating the noise. The choke coils are the only components that will generate noise, so they are the only parts glued to be sealed.


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## Mussels (Jun 26, 2022)

Shrek said:


> How hot can VRMs get?


normally 60-80C, most throttle at 105C

rest is what lex said, VRM's aint the noisy bits


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## Valantar (Jul 7, 2022)

Decided to give the superglue method a try on a newly acquired Z97I-Plus with a very annoyingly buzzy CPU VRM. The dense VRM layout on this board didn't do me any favors in terms of getting access to the edges of the chokes, so in the end I went a bit brute force, applying it along the seams where I could, and pouring it down various cracks between chokes and caps where I couldn't get to them. I guess you could call the resulting application generous? It did overflow a bit, making a little track over towards one edge of the CPU retention mechanism, but I can't see how that will do any harm. From what I can tell, it seems to have soaked in decently. I just hope nobody ever has to attempt a VRM repair on this board 


http://imgur.com/a/jjsL4fA


Oh, and yes, I was dumb enough to replace the pads on the VRM cooling with K5-Pro before deciding to try this. Luckily they didn't interfere with each other.


Will leave this to dry overnight and report back. At that point I'll also have what is possibly the only delidded, liquid metalled i5-4570S in existence in the board  Yes, this is a "try everything because it's not important" type of project.


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## Shrek (Jul 7, 2022)

I wonder how much thermal pads damp coil whine.


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## freeagent (Jul 7, 2022)

Has anyone tried clear nail polish? I heard that works pretty good. 

Luckily I haven't heard coil whine since I started using high performance fans eons ago


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## Valantar (Jul 7, 2022)

Shrek said:


> I wonder how much thermal pads damp coil whine.


Essentially not at all. I guess it would be worse if the coil was vibrating against a bare aluminium heatsink, but the coil manages to produce plenty of noise on its own.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 8, 2022)

Valantar said:


> Will leave this to dry overnight and report back.


If you used super glue, it should be solid by now. 24hours curing time is for full solidification. Once it hardens it's structurally set.



Valantar said:


> Essentially not at all. I guess it would be worse if the coil was vibrating against a bare aluminium heatsink, *but the coil manages to produce plenty of noise on its own.*


This.


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## Mussels (Jul 8, 2022)

Shrek said:


> I wonder how much thermal pads damp coil whine.


The noise is a high pitch echoing inside a sort of container over the coil

So this is the noisy bit





and they wear fancy hats





So a thermal pad only covers noise that goes "up", while the glue seeps in and seals the bottom, stopping the noise leaving out any gaps (and ideally, soaks up onto the coil a little reducing the vibration at the same time it traps it inside the fancy hat)


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## Valantar (Jul 8, 2022)

The operation seems to have been a success. While there's still a slight audible buzz, I now have to bring my ear pretty close to the system (running open-bench right now) to properly hear it as it's essentially drowned out by the NH-A9i's fan. So it's gone from "clearly audible at all times at unacceptable noise levels" to "it's _there_, but you kind of have to listen for it". Definitely happy with that!

On a side note, the delid seems to have been a success as well. Haven't run much of a torture test, but the A9i heat soaks quickly, and after 10 minutes of OCCT (+Heaven to get some load on the GPU as well), my CPU core temps are sitting between 62-66°C, with the package temperature at 65-66°. Previously this test brought everything to 79-80°C quite quickly. Oh, and did I mention this is with a ~300rpm reduction in fan speed? Yep, that TIM was clearly pretty crap, and conductonaut is clearly quite nice (even if applying it is anything but fun).


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 8, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Has anyone tried clear nail polish? I heard that works pretty good.


It has to be hot pink, not clear! 

Seriously, I cannot speak for this coil application, but we have tried nail polish on a noisy transformer before. I do not recommend it. It did work, but the noise returned after about a week. Upon close inspection, we could see the polish became brittle and started to flake off.

To make matters worse, in order to implement a permanent solution (with epoxy putty), we had to use acetone (essentially nail polish remover without all the extra additives/contaminants). The problem there was the acetone started to breakdown the resins applied to the transformer plates at the factory, creating a gooey mess that was even harder to clean thoroughly.

That said, the epoxy putty worked great. We just squished it in between the plates like you would spackling a crack, let it cure over the weekend and we were good to go.


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## Shrek (Jul 9, 2022)

Bill_Bright said:


> The problem there was the acetone started to breakdown the resins applied to the transformer plates at the factory, creating a gooey mess that was even harder to clean thoroughly.



I'd just fork out for the real deal, if the plates touch eddy currents can build up.


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## Valantar (Jul 9, 2022)

Bill_Bright said:


> the noise returned after about a week. Upon close inspection, we could see the polish became brittle and started to flake off.


Sounds reasonable - it's being hammered by high frequency vibrations after all. And nail polish is notorious for flaking too. For anything to withstand those vibrations it would either need to be slightly flexible or very hard - like superglue. I would guess that insulating varnish sets similarly hard?


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 9, 2022)

Shrek said:


> I'd just fork out for the real deal, if the plates touch eddy currents can build up.


Not likely. Remember, typically transformer plates are stacked on top (or side by side) of each other at the factory. This is different from a coil where the windings are spaced some distance apart. 

But regardless, as I noted above, squishing epoxy putty between the plate would prevent any unwanted contact. 


Valantar said:


> or very hard - like superglue.


Except superglue has low ductility - becomes brittle too. 

If you want to use superglue, I recommend one of the newer, 2-part hybrid epoxy superglues that provide the best of both worlds. See this and scroll down to "_Are there two-part cyanoacrylates?_"


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## Valantar (Jul 9, 2022)

Bill_Bright said:


> Except superglue has low ductility - becomes brittle too.
> 
> If you want to use superglue, I recommend one of the newer, 2-part hybrid epoxy superglues that provide the best of both worlds. See this and scroll down to "_Are there two-part cyanoacrylates?_"


True, but it cures much harder than nail polish, and at least from what I've seen has much less of a tendency for cracks to spread, meaning it chips rather than flaking, and damage is less likely to spread catastrophically, at least over relatively short time spans.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 9, 2022)

Bill_Bright said:


> But regardless, as I noted above, squishing epoxy putty between the plate would prevent any unwanted contact.


Perhaps, but it's also VERY messy and cumbersome to apply. Super Glue is not. It is easily applied and mostly mess free when using a nozzle applicator. Furthermore, epoxy does not wick into small spaces and crevices, thus failing to fill spaces that Super Glue can do natuarlly.


Bill_Bright said:


> Except superglue has low ductility - becomes brittle too.


That argument is flawed in both it's presumption and it's presentation. Videocards do NOT undergo flexing frequently enough nor to a degree that ductility would be any great factor with superglue that would not also be experienced by epoxy. And while it is known that superglue does become a little bit more brittle after curing, it's not enough to be considered fragile nor hinder it's application in any manner in the context of this use-case-scenario. Also...


Valantar said:


> True, but it cures much harder than nail polish


...this


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 9, 2022)

Valantar said:


> True, but it cures much harder than nail polish,


This is true. No argument there. Frankly, I am not a fan of using nail polish. But I note so does epoxy cure harder than nail polish. If I had nothing else, I would use nail polish. If super glue was handy, then for sure that. But for a truly permanent fix, epoxy - or the hybrid superglue epoxy mentioned earlier. 


lexluthermiester said:


> Perhaps, but it's also VERY messy and cumbersome to apply.


Not really. You only need a pea size blob of each part, a wooden Popsicle/glue stick, and a 3x5 index card to mix the two on. Hardly messy or cumbersome - with no danger of supergluing your fingers together, or your fingers to your eyelid. 

But I will admit that superglue, with its handy little dispenser bottle, is less messy and easier to apply - if it has not dried up already in the previously opened tube - a MAJOR complaint of mine and others. 



lexluthermiester said:


> Furthermore, epoxy does not wick into small spaces and crevices


Which is exactly why I said you need to squish it in between the plates. So in that respect, it is messy for your thumb - but if you have a box of surgical gloves handy, or a small piece of plastic wrap - that problem is easily solved too.

I will give you that superglue looks nicer - if that is important to you.


lexluthermiester said:


> That argument is flawed in both it's presumption and it's presentation.


There is no presumption. Look it up. Superglue becomes brittle and can easily break free when stressed by "shearing" and "twisting" forces - that is, any force that is not 90° (perpendicular) from the bond. Epoxy does not. Some may remember the old Crazy Glue commercials where a construction worker hung from an I-beam girder by his hardhat that was superglued to the girder. That demonstrates superglue's superior bonding characteristic as the force of gravity is straight down - 90° - perpendicular to the bonded surfaces.



lexluthermiester said:


> And while it is known that superglue does become more brittle after curing, it's not enough to be considered fragile nor hinder it's application


First, thanks for admitting - after first stating my argument was flawed!  - that it does indeed becomes brittle. But note I NEVER said or implied it was either fragile or a hinderance. What I am saying, and still contend is if you want greater assurance of a more permanent bond, epoxy putty is the better, solution.


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## Mussels (Jul 17, 2022)

You can argue for alternatives - but for those of us that have TRIED most of them, superglue genuinely seems to be the best real-world choice

Hot glue didnt get far enough inside to help
Nail polish flakes off too fast

Superglue sucks itself into where its wanted and dries fast, and i've seen no flaking or cracking in my little SFF server after a few months of abuse


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## Valantar (Jul 17, 2022)

Bill_Bright said:


> Which is exactly why I said you need to squish it in between the plates. So in that respect, it is messy for your thumb - but if you have a box of surgical gloves handy, or a small piece of plastic wrap - that problem is easily solved too.


I don't know what you mean by 'plates' here - the rest of us are talking about inductors on motherboards and GPUs, typically of the encased kind. The noise mostly comes from the coil vibrating _inside_ of the casing. There is no physical way of "squishing" anything in between there unless you desolder the inductor - and typically not even then. That's why you need a low viscosity fluid that can move up inside of the inductor through capillary action. Epoxy putty is the exact opposite of what is needed here. It's a decent insulator, and cures very strong, but at best you'll dampen external vibrations (between the casing and PCB) and possibly add some noise isolation for the internal ones, but you won't actually fix the problem that way.


Bill_Bright said:


> I will give you that superglue looks nicer - if that is important to you.
> There is no presumption. Look it up. Superglue becomes brittle and can easily break free when stressed by "shearing" and "twisting" forces - that is, any force that is not 90° (perpendicular) from the bond. Epoxy does not. Some may remember the old Crazy Glue commercials where a construction worker hung from an I-beam girder by his hardhat that was superglued to the girder. That demonstrates superglue's superior bonding characteristic as the force of gravity is straight down - 90° - perpendicular to the bonded surfaces.


While that is true, I don't see the relevance here? There will be no major shearing or twisting forces applied to these inductors. Sure, the vibrations will cause movement in all kinds of directions, but the forces involved are tiny and chaotic. Can this cause cracking over time? Possibly, sure. I'd be more than willing to take my chances. As discussed above, cured superglue generally doesn't see cracks propagate and start flaking (unless the forces applied are quite extreme). So it's possible the vibrations will cause some cracking over time, but it will be gradual and very small.


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## izy (Jul 17, 2022)

There should be some downside to this as im thinking that the OEMs would have fixed this by now. I think that superglue  may damage the PCB and i am not sure if that coil gets very hot but that can be a problem too if its melting the glue.


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## Valantar (Jul 17, 2022)

izy said:


> There should be some downside to this as im thinking that the OEMs would have fixed this by now. I think that superglue  may damage the PCB and i am not sure if that coil gets very hot but that can be a problem too if its melting the glue.


It's likely more a problem of the levels of QC/research/manufacturing complexity needed to eliminate whine. It could probably be solved if inductor manufacturers did extensive research on a potting material that eliminated vibrations between the coil and casing, if they did extensive QC testing for whine across a wide range of switching frequencies and noise/ripple levels, or if they added an additional manufacturing step of adding a low viscosity potting material (which is what the superglue is acting as) after the one currently used in order to entirely eliminate air gaps and room for movement. The problem is that either of these approaches (or any combination of them) is going to be expensive, and inductors are a mass produced low cost, low complexity component. Most likely this would drive prices up far above competitors. And, let's face it, most users in most scenarios neither notice nor care about coil whine, and it is only really noticeable and annoying in rather extreme cases (like cpu and gpu VRMs).

Superglue will not damage the PCB unless it contains acetone (none that I know of do) or other very powerful solvents not typically found in cyanoacrylate glue, and won't melt within the operating temperature range of most VRMs.


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## izy (Jul 17, 2022)

Valantar said:


> It's likely more a problem of the levels of QC/research/manufacturing complexity needed to eliminate whine. It could probably be solved if inductor manufacturers did extensive research on a potting material that eliminated vibrations between the coil and casing, if they did extensive QC testing for whine across a wide range of switching frequencies and noise/ripple levels, or if they added an additional manufacturing step of adding a low viscosity potting material (which is what the superglue is acting as) after the one currently used in order to entirely eliminate air gaps and room for movement. The problem is that either of these approaches (or any combination of them) is going to be expensive, and inductors are a mass produced low cost, low complexity component. Most likely this would drive prices up far above competitors. And, let's face it, most users in most scenarios neither notice nor care about coil whine, and it is only really noticeable and annoying in rather extreme cases (like cpu and gpu VRMs).
> 
> Superglue will not damage the PCB unless it contains acetone (none that I know of do) or other very powerful solvents not typically found in cyanoacrylate glue, and won't melt within the operating temperature range of most VRMs.


If i remember correctly some years ago i tried to fix a broken amplifier and the superglue i used affected the PCB ( i didnt had a solder gun at the place i was) but i dont remember if i cleaned it with something that was not ok before gluing or not. 

There should be like cheap and quality ones and in a premium GPU , lets say RTX 3090, they can afford using the more expensive one. You can find other components with different levels of quality why not this too.


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## Valantar (Jul 17, 2022)

izy said:


> If i remember correctly some years ago i tried to fix a broken amplifier and the superglue i used affected the PCB ( i didnt had a solder gun at the place i was) but i dont remember if i cleaned it with something that was not ok before gluing or not.


Sounds weird. I guess it's possible that it used some sort of low-grade PCB that was sensitive to weaker solvents, but even that sounds unlikely IMO. PC components definitely don't. Or, of course, it's possible that wasn't CA glue but something else.


izy said:


> There should be like cheap and quality ones and in a premium GPU , lets say RTX 3090, they can afford using the more expensive one. You can find other components with different levels of quality why not this too.


There obviously are, but I think you're underestimating the cost difference of additional R&D or manufacturing steps like this. One thing is designing to a higher spec, another is producing something with sufficient precision to eliminate an elusive and hard-to-remove issue - and the latter will be more expensive in the vast majority of cases.

And this is made all the more complicated by coil whine being dependent on factors outside of the manufacturer's control - coil whine is typically dependent on (among other things) the specific PSU used, the GPU or CPU used and their clock speed (and its stability/variability), the current draw (and thus the width of the VRM), the amount of filtering capacitors both on the 12V input and between the inductor and the CPU/GPU, and even soldering quality - and a lot more. The exact same system otherwise might see no coil whine with one PSU, and unbearable whine with another. The exact same inductors might whine like crazy installed on one GPU, while they're dead silent on another with similar on-paper specs (same die, power draw, clock speed) but different board layouts, filtering, and BIOS tuning. And so on, and so on.


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## izy (Jul 17, 2022)

Valantar said:


> Sounds weird. I guess it's possible that it used some sort of low-grade PCB that was sensitive to weaker solvents, but even that sounds unlikely IMO. PC components definitely don't. Or, of course, it's possible that wasn't CA glue but something else.
> 
> There obviously are, but I think you're underestimating the cost difference of additional R&D or manufacturing steps like this. One thing is designing to a higher spec, another is producing something with sufficient precision to eliminate an elusive and hard-to-remove issue - and the latter will be more expensive in the vast majority of cases.
> 
> And this is made all the more complicated by coil whine being dependent on factors outside of the manufacturer's control - coil whine is typically dependent on (among other things) the specific PSU used, the GPU or CPU used and their clock speed (and its stability/variability), the current draw (and thus the width of the VRM), the amount of filtering capacitors both on the 12V input and between the inductor and the CPU/GPU, and even soldering quality - and a lot more. The exact same system otherwise might see no coil whine with one PSU, and unbearable whine with another. The exact same inductors might whine like crazy installed on one GPU, while they're dead silent on another with similar on-paper specs (same die, power draw, clock speed) but different board layouts, filtering, and BIOS tuning. And so on, and so on.


Well.. i am a bit ironic here but why dont they just factory glue them , just in case of coil wine happens, as its cheap and as you guys are saying, effective


----------



## Valantar (Jul 17, 2022)

izy said:


> Well.. i am a bit ironic here but why dont they just factory glue them , just in case of coil wine happens, as its cheap and as you guys are saying, effective


One possible reason: soldering temperature tolerance: adding CA glue after a component is mounted is no problem, but adding it beforehand is likely not possible due to the heat of SMD component mounting temperatures with unleaded solder (which is required for ROHS compliance). At that point that glue would likely see temperatures _way_ higher than it could tolerate, causing it to melt, deform, or even catch fire. And there would of course be some unpleasant fumes involved either way.

Another reason might be production cost as I mentioned above: if this adds another step to production, and particularly if that step requires waiting for something to set or cure beforehand, then that's a very significant additional cost to production, requiring production line expansions, new tools, and possibly temporary storage space for curing components.


----------



## Shrek (Jul 17, 2022)

Valantar said:


> One possible reason: soldering temperature tolerance: adding CA glue after a component is mounted is no problem, but adding it beforehand is likely not possible due to the heat of SMD component mounting temperatures with unleaded solder (which is required for ROHS compliance). At that point that glue would likely see temperatures _way_ higher than it could tolerate, causing it to melt, deform, or even catch fire. And there would of course be some unpleasant fumes involved either way.



They would not use super-glue


----------



## Valantar (Jul 17, 2022)

Shrek said:


> They would not use super-glue


True, but that varnish is still just rated up to 180°C, nowhere close to enough. And it dries in ~48h at room temperature (for a thin surface coating?) or 1h at 80°C, which is rather impractical. The datasheet doesn't say anything about curing for using it in voids/in between parts, which might be even longer. And no word on shrinkage. That's the struggle here: finding a potting compound for the inductors that's non-toxic (or close to it), doesn't shrink noticeably when cured, is sufficiently hard and strong, can take ~300°C, and sets quickly, ideally at room temperature. And of course has good insulating properties. That sounds pretty much like a miracle material - while adding superglue after the fact counteracts a lot of the problems with finding such a material. Or, of course, varnish like that, which would probably work just as well - I can't say as I have zero experience with it.


----------



## Shrek (Jul 17, 2022)

Electrolytic capacitors are good to 105*°*C but are fine for soldering; the 180*°*C is service temperature.

One could use epoxy; the boards are made of epoxy so there should be no temperature issue.


----------



## Valantar (Jul 17, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Electrolytic capacitors are good to 105*°*C but are fine for soldering; the 180*°*C is service temperature.


True, but service temperature for a capacitor is the temperature it can operate under for X thousand hours before failing, while the "operation" of a varnish is... well, covering something while not conducting electricity. I highly doubt there's any major difference between operating and installation temperature for that varnish, unlike most electronic components. That isn't to say it'll immediately break down or catch fire at 300°C obviously, but if it could handle that, it seems reasonable to expect that it would be rated for it IMO.


Shrek said:


> One could use epoxy; the boards are made of epoxy so there should be no temperature issue.


Definitely a good candidate, and frankly I expect the potting compound they already use to be some form of epoxy. The problem with epoxy is typically shrinkage though, which is difficult to avoid, and inevitably leaves gaps in a use case like this.


----------



## Shrek (Jul 17, 2022)

Bob Smith Industries BSI-205 Clear Slow-Cure Epoxy (4.5 oz. Combined): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
This has an upper temperature rating of 180*°*C which happens to be the same as for the insulating varnish.

Or maybe a low viscosity epoxy
FDA-Bond 2 Food & Drug Administration Medical Grade Epoxy Adhesive, Low Viscosity RT Cure: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

I'd just go with the varnish as no mixing is needed (I just made a repair with epoxy today, and, in this heat, things cured way too fast).

It also reminds me of a tour I did some time back of a hydroelectric power station where I was told they used to use epoxy for the windings but now use tar; not sure they believed me when I told them they may have got things the wrong way round.


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## Mussels (Jul 18, 2022)

izy said:


> There should be some downside to this as im thinking that the OEMs would have fixed this by now. I think that superglue  may damage the PCB and i am not sure if that coil gets very hot but that can be a problem too if its melting the glue.


superglue can trap heat, and long-term i dont expect it to last 5-10 years without flaking or cracking, so it's no good as factory option

Thats why we arent dumping it over heatsinks or high-heat components, only on specifically noisy coils
The ceramic covers *is* their attempted fix, that mostly works

Its a nightmare to test at the factory, my 750W corsair had no coil whine, but it caused coil whine on an aorus 3080
Then a reference 3090 had none but the PSU did

Now with a new PSU and no coil whine, I cant trigger the whine with that older corsair PSU with any other hardware in the house



Oh and i did try epoxy, but its so thick it's difficult to get it where it matters - superglue has a wicking effect and gets sucked in, which is why it's so simple and easy to use on the covered coils


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## Shrek (Jul 18, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Oh and i did try epoxy, but its so thick it's difficult to get it where it matters - superglue has a wicking effect and gets sucked in, which is why it's so simple and easy to use on the covered coils



That is why I included low viscosity epoxy above.
FDA-Bond 2 Food & Drug Administration Medical Grade Epoxy Adhesive, Low Viscosity RT Cure: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


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## Valantar (Jul 18, 2022)

Shrek said:


> That is why I included low viscosity epoxy above.
> FDA-Bond 2 Food & Drug Administration Medical Grade Epoxy Adhesive, Low Viscosity RT Cure: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


It's probably possible to find something suitable like that - if anything, my guess would be that a low viscosity epoxy is exactly what they use to pot the inductor inside the casing. The problem is finding one that has the desired dampening characteristics, the required temperature tolerance, and has minimal shrinkage when curing so that there are no voids left afterwards. The one you linked, while obviously just an example, is rated for up to 145°C, but has its glass transition temperature at just 54°C, so you could risk it seeping out of the inductor under normal operating temperatures given sufficient time. My guess would be that the materials they're actually using is about as close as you can get to an optimal combination of traits without excessive costs, cure times/temperatures, environmental issues, or other problems.


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## Shrek (Jul 18, 2022)

If coil whine is disturbing to humans, I can hardly imagine how annoying it is to cats and dogs.


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## Valantar (Jul 18, 2022)

And they probably hear a lot of it that we don't!

Me: Ah, blissful silence!
Neighbor's dog in the apartment below:


----------



## izy (Jul 18, 2022)

At least you can drive away the mosquitoes


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## deepblade (Jul 23, 2022)

Does anybody tried this method on ASUS GPUs? Their circuit boards have very specific inductors and there is no gap to apply the glue.


----------



## Valantar (Jul 23, 2022)

deepblade said:


> Does anybody tried this method on ASUS GPUs? Their circuit boards have very specific inductors and there is no gap to apply the glue.
> View attachment 255708


Those look like perfectly ordinary SMD inductors to me (save for the silkscreened branding). The gap in question is the slight line between the inductor and the PCB, nothing more. That's why you need a low viscosity liquid to seep in through capillary action, as there isn't so much an opening as there are two hard objects imperfectly resting against each other, with the slight gaps that brings with it.


----------



## Shrek (Jul 23, 2022)

I would first try some toothpicks below the inductors, if that does not reduce the whine it is probably not going to help gluing them down.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 23, 2022)

deepblade said:


> Their circuit boards have very specific inductors and there is no gap to apply the glue.


Sure there is. The photo you posted shows a small gap very clearly. That's a enough space for high-pitched sound to emanate from. Seal that space up with SuperGlue and the sound either goes away or it is greatly diminished.


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## Shrek (Jul 23, 2022)

Concern

I had a clock that made a little noise, no big deal, but then I hung it on the wall which acted like a speaker and the noise became annoying; I wonder if the same thing might happen here.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 23, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Concern
> 
> I had a clock that made a little noise, no big deal, but then I hung it on the wall which acted like a speaker and the noise became annoying; I wonder if the same thing might happen here.


Unfortunately, that's a different mechanism entirely. The solution would likely be easy, rubber pads on the back of the clock to prevent vibrations being transmitted into the wall panel.


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## Mussels (Jul 24, 2022)

deepblade said:


> Does anybody tried this method on ASUS GPUs? Their circuit boards have very specific inductors and there is no gap to apply the glue.
> View attachment 255708






*Sploosh* on all sides and hope for the best


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 24, 2022)

Mussels said:


> View attachment 255768
> 
> *Sploosh* on all sides and hope for the best


This is what you do. The natural wicking action of the SuperGlue will work it into all of the cracks.


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## deepblade (Jul 24, 2022)

Ok, already ordered  glue with special applicator. I will report back when everything is done.


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## Shrek (Jul 24, 2022)

Mussels said:


> View attachment 255768
> 
> *Sploosh* on all sides and hope for the best



Or should one leave one side open to try an avoid trapping air? When I apply flux for reflowing, I try to avoid blocking all sides for this reason.

Why need to put varnish on coils? | Custom Magnetic coils_Antenna Coils_Wireless Charging Colis_Electronic Coils Manufacturer (jhcoils.com)
vacuum pressure impregnation is one way to avoid air blockage

I am concerned that with things inside the box it may be hard to dampen winding vibrations


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 24, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Or should one leave one side open to try an avoid trapping air?


No. If you leave any area unsealed, the noise will have an avenue of escape. Seal it thoroughly on all sides and be done.


Shrek said:


> When I apply flux for reflowing, I try to avoid blocking all sides for this reason.


I'm curious. Why would you reflow a choke coil? That makes no sense what-so-ever...


Shrek said:


> Why need to put varnish on coils? | Custom Magnetic coils_Antenna Coils_Wireless Charging Colis_Electronic Coils Manufacturer (jhcoils.com)
> vacuum pressure impregnation is one way to avoid air blockage


You don't need to avoid air blockage. Choke coils are not like IC's, they don't need cooling because they generate very little(read almost none) heat.


Shrek said:


> I am concerned that with things inside the box it may be hard to dampen winding vibrations


Don't be concerned. Seal the air gaps, enjoy!


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## Shrek (Jul 24, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> No. If you leave any area unsealed, the noise will have an avenue of escape. Seal it thoroughly on all sides and be done.
> 
> I'm curious. Why would you reflow a choke coil? That makes no sense what-so-ever...
> 
> ...



I meant apply from 3 sides till one sees it come out the 4th

Fluxing a chip, but not wanting any trapped air

I was thinking of this application where the box bottom may be flat.


I wonder how it all works out; I'm here to learn for I can see myself having to deal with this issue.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 24, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Fluxing a chip, but not wanting any trapped air


That has nothing to do with sealing a noisy choke-coil. Air trapped under a coil is of no consequence.


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## Shrek (Jul 24, 2022)

I very much appreciate you bring up topics like coil whine; it's a big deal in my opinion. We may quibble about which varnish to use or whether air bubbles are of consequence, but it's all good stuff.

Actually, I had a power strip with inbuilt USB power, but trashed it due to the whine when not under load.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 25, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Actually, I had a power strip with inbuilt USB power, but trashed it due to the whine when not under load.


Weird. I'll bet you could have fixed it with this method.


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## Shrek (Jul 25, 2022)

I made a mess trying to open it; the glue joints were internal (that is what I meant by, I trashed it).


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 25, 2022)

Shrek said:


> I made a mess trying to open it; the glue joints were internal (that is what I meant by, I trashed it).


Fair enough. They were likely sonicly welded.


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## Canned Noodles (Jul 25, 2022)

deepblade said:


> Ok, already ordered  glue with special applicator. I will report back when everything is done.  View attachment 255793


wow, that tube really puts the "super" in super glue


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## Mussels (Jul 27, 2022)

Shrek said:


> I very much appreciate you bring up topics like coil whine; it's a big deal in my opinion. We may quibble about which varnish to use or whether air bubbles are of consequence, but it's all good stuff.
> 
> Actually, I had a power strip with inbuilt USB power, but trashed it due to the whine when not under load.


Oh yeah, USB chargers are prone to this too

The problem is that opening most of them breaks the casing permanently, making it a hard repair to justify most of the time


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## deepblade (Jul 31, 2022)

Reporting back.

Patient: Asus GeForce RTX 3070 ROG STRIX OC

Before: whining like hell

After: whining, but less

Conclusion: operation was partially successful, the coil whine is now more pleasant to ears, but it's still present


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 31, 2022)

deepblade said:


> Reporting back.
> 
> Patient: Asus GeForce RTX 3070 ROG STRIX OC
> 
> ...


Any improvement is good. Did you make sure to use enough glue to seal all the gaps?


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## deepblade (Aug 2, 2022)

I was expecting something better and I think that job was well done, but maybe I missed something. I will let it roll for few weeks and maybe then add another layer of glue.


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## Shrek (Aug 2, 2022)

I fear that it is the coil in the box that you are unable to get to.


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 3, 2022)

Shrek said:


> I fear that it is the coil in the box that you are unable to get to.


That is easily sealed. A generous amount of superglue at the bottom and the same on top. I love seeing those types, they're easy-breezy! They're rarely used these days though..


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## Mussels (Aug 3, 2022)

You can see its already glued, that factory glue can crack or dry out and release the kraken whine

 as lexy says, seal the earth, wind, fire, and water sides and then the avatar can.... fifth element multi-pass? captain planet? power rangers?
Wait maybe it's those cool transformers that join together....

Glue the sides and then top


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 3, 2022)

Mussels said:


> You can see its already glued, that factory glue can crack or dry out and release the kraken whine
> 
> as lexy says, seal the earth, wind, fire, and water sides and then the avatar can.... fifth element multi-pass? captain planet? power rangers?
> Wait maybe it's those cool transformers that join together....
> ...


The ones that are are enclosed on all sides except the bottom can be easy but you have to use a generous amount of superglue and let it wick in.


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## rudypowersa324 (Aug 24, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> The ones that are are enclosed on all sides except the bottom can be easy but you have to use a generous amount of superglue and let it wick in.



Hi, there i have laptop dell 7791 and has coil whine closer to CPU GPU and the sound are high .
Where should i put the hot glue on the motherboard as you can see the picture ??? Thanks


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 24, 2022)

rudypowersa324 said:


> Hi, there i have laptop dell 7791 and has coil whine closer to CPU GPU and the sound are high .
> Where should i put the hot glue on the motherboard as you can see the picture ??? Thanks


First, *don't* do hot glue, it's a pain to apply and very difficult to get a proper seal with. SuperGlue. See below.



Note the green highlights. With a laptop, it's very difficult to narrow down which one is making the noise. So just do them all, the ones you circled in red as well as the ones I circled in green. SuperGlue is cheap most places, so if you use most of or a whole tube, no big loss. Don't be afraid to be generous with it as superglue will not hurt electronics. It's not electrically conductive or capacitive, near chemically inert as a fluid and completely chemically inert once cured.

Welcome to TPU!


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## Mussels (Aug 24, 2022)

Yeah, hot glue doesnt work for long. I tried it and within a few days it had come loose and barely made any change.


It has some uses, but not for coils/chokes with this design.


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## Mister300 (Aug 24, 2022)

Be careful, I am a professional Chemist and CA glues are flammable.  If board gets hot it could auto ignite the glue.  I would go to a electronics supply house and get an epoxy to use.


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 24, 2022)

Mister300 said:


> Be careful, I am a professional Chemist and CA glues are flammable.


Most glues are flammable in their liquid state, few in their solid state.


Mister300 said:


> If board gets hot it could auto ignite the glue.


No it can't. SuperGlue will only ignite when exposed to direct flame and that doesn't apply to all formulations. I have never seen or heard of SuperGlue ignite on any electronics it's used on once cured. The flash point of SuperGlue in it's liquid state is well above the heat that any electronics will generate in a functional condition. Any heat that is enough to flash ignite liquid SuperGlue would be enough to burn out whatever electronics it's being applied to.


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## Mussels (Aug 24, 2022)

What lex said. The flammable parts evaporate, and by the point the solid remains are flammable your PC is already on fire.


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## Valantar (Aug 24, 2022)

From a quick search, the only autoignition temperature I could find for a superglue was 485°C, which ... well, if your board is that hot, you've got bigger problems!


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## Mister300 (Aug 24, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Most glues are flammable in their liquid state, few in their solid state.
> 
> No it can't. SuperGlue will only ignite when exposed to direct flame and that doesn't apply to all formulations. I have never seen or heard of SuperGlue ignite on any electronics it's used on once cured. The flash point of SuperGlue in it's liquid state is well above the heat that any electronics will generate in a functional condition. Any heat that is enough to flash ignite liquid SuperGlue would be enough to burn out whatever electronics it's being applied to.


I use a piece of wire to apply CA if I light the hardened bead it does burn folks.


----------



## Valantar (Aug 24, 2022)

Mister300 said:


> I use a piece of wire to apply CA if I light the hardened bead it does burn folks.


... yes, if exposed to an open flame. If there are open flames within your PC, you have more serious problems than whether or not the glue used to reduce coil whine is flammable.


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 25, 2022)

Valantar said:


> ... yes, if exposed to an open flame. If there are open flames within your PC, you have more serious problems than whether or not the glue used to reduce coil whine is flammable.


This....


Mister300 said:


> I use a piece of wire to apply CA if I light the hardened bead it does burn folks.


...so let it go. We're not sheep or dummies here.


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## Mussels (Aug 25, 2022)

Yeah




I don't think that's a valid test.
Go look at post #137


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## Wayne92 (Oct 6, 2022)

Hey, i Put my 6900xt Saphire Nitro+ SE under Water with Alphacool WB.
Now my Card have a rly high Coil whine:/ 
I will try glue them, but idk where are the coils in my GPU ...
Can some one tell me , what i have to glue? 
Sorry for my bad english.


----------



## Athlonite (Oct 6, 2022)

Wayne92 said:


> Hey, i Put my 6900xt Saphire Nitro+ SE under Water with Alphacool WB.
> Now my Card have a rly high Coil whine:/
> I will try glue them, but idk where are the coils in my GPU ...
> Can some one tell me , what i have to glue?
> Sorry for my bad english.


----------



## Wayne92 (Oct 6, 2022)

Thx a Lot *.*  I will try IT tomorrow

OK i did it now, i think its kindy Work  
Still little Bit Coil whine at 400 Watt Power Draw.
But its much better *.*


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## Mussels (Oct 7, 2022)

Wayne92 said:


> Thx a Lot *.*  I will try IT tomorrow
> 
> OK i did it now, i think its kindy Work
> Still little Bit Coil whine at 400 Watt Power Draw.
> But its much better *.*


The whine may also be from your PSU

I had whine until i moved from corsair 750W to Fractal 860W (Both Platinum rated)


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## Wayne92 (Oct 7, 2022)

Dont think its the PSU, its a new Seasonic Titanium 850W.


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## Bill_Bright (Oct 7, 2022)

Wayne92 said:


> Dont think its the PSU, its a new Seasonic Titanium 850W.


Don't be lulled into a false sense of security just because a product is new and/or of a quality design from a reputable company. Even the best of the best can and will have a flawed unit, or one that fails prematurely every now and then. Not to mention, they can be damaged by other abuse such as rough handling during transport, exposure to excessive heat or abnormal electrical input.

I am not caffeinated enough this morning to read back through 6 pages, but I don't think this was mentioned in this thread yet. You can grab the inner tube from a paper towel roll and use that tube as a stethoscope to [hopefully] pinpoint the source of the whine/buzz. 

To verify it is not the PSU, you can [CAREFULLY] unmount the PSU from the computer case and [CAREFULLY] swing it outside the case. If the source of the noise is the PSU, you should be able hear that the source location has changed.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 7, 2022)

Wayne92 said:


> Dont think its the PSU, its a new Seasonic Titanium 850W.


Unless you have tested with another PSU to rule it out, it's possible.



Bill_Bright said:


> I am not caffeinated enough this morning to read back through 6 pages, but I don't think this was mentioned in this thread yet. You can grab the inner tube from a paper towel roll and use that tube as a stethoscope to [hopefully] pinpoint the source of the whine/buzz.


That is a very clever, simple and useful method.


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## qubit (Oct 7, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Unless you have tested with another PSU to rule it out, it's possible.


Also, sticking one's ear up against it can be reasonably definitive.

Today's Low Tech Solution(tm)


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 7, 2022)

qubit said:


> Also, sticking one's ear up against it can be reasonably definitive.
> 
> Today's Low Tech Solution(tm)


True. As a rule that's generally how one would do it. Yet for troublesome noises that defy easy identification the method mentioned by Bill works a fair treat.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 8, 2022)

Wayne92 said:


> Dont think its the PSU, its a new Seasonic Titanium 850W.


It may not be - but it CAN be. Keepan open mind, as PSU's and components age these things change over time and are not something to treat as a yes/no answer.

Even if the hardware is good, some combinations just resonate specific frequencies and have issues.

Even on my GTX 1080, if i ran specific things like heaven benchmark - when you quit you get an exit screen that could hit 1000+ FPS, and the GPU whined horribly
Testing it again on the fractal, that was totally gone - the PSU made the GPU whine. Extension cables can also make it a lot worse, same as using pigtail PCI-E power cables - spreading the load helps the PSU, which reduces whine.


----------



## qfg77 (Dec 4, 2022)

I tried the super glue approach on my custom water cooled 4090 Gigabyte OC. It was super whine-y beforehand. It’s now completely silent. Thanks so much to the OP for this suggestion. I used a low viscosity super glue like they suggested.

One thing to note is that it took a few days for the glue to harden completely and for the noise to go away. I also added fat thermal pads to my backplate as it was amplifying the noise like crazy. The combination of the two, or maybe just the super glue, made the system completely silent.

One snafu I had was that super glue spread on my PCI lane and the card wouldnt boot. Fortunately, the glue didn’t harden all the way and I was able to scrape the glue from the lanes. Otherwise, glue is a bit messy on my PCB but that didn’t affect anything really.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 4, 2022)

The problem is that one voids the warrantee if one superglues the coils.


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## qfg77 (Dec 4, 2022)

The warranty was voided the moment I removed my backplate: there was a screw there with a warranty sticker on it. So anyone installing a waterblock on a GPU voids the warranty.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 4, 2022)

Shrek said:


> The problem is that one voids the warrantee if one superglues the coils.


While true, most cards/motherboards/PSUs that develop coil-whine do so after the warranty are expired.



qfg77 said:


> The warranty was voided the moment I removed my backplate: there was a screw there with a warranty sticker on it. So anyone installing a waterblock on a GPU voids the warranty.


Not in NA or EU. Both regions have adopted laws that make warranty exclusion for such reasons unlawful. Anywhere else, it'll depend on the local consumer protection laws.


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## qfg77 (Dec 4, 2022)

Got it, I guess I took a bigger risk than I expected in that case!


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 4, 2022)

qfg77 said:


> Thanks so much to the OP for this suggestion.


You're welcome. Glad it helped!


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## Mussels (Dec 5, 2022)

Here in AU, they have to prove what you did caused the fault
Water damage from liquid cooling? no warranty
Custom water cooled but the issue was the nvidia supplied power cord melted? you'd be covered

And if you're confident the glue had nothing to do with a reason for needing an RMA in the future, i'd RMA it anyway and just not mention it

Also, super glad this fixed your coil whine... it's such an annoying problem


----------



## MarsM4N (Dec 5, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not in NA or EU. Both regions have adopted laws that make warranty exclusion for such reasons unlawful. Anywhere else, it'll depend on the local consumer protection laws.



Is that a new law? __ Over here, _according to ComputerBase_ from their 2020 report only *Asus*_,_* EVGA*_,_* KFA *_&_* MSI* allowed to disassemble a card.
_*Sapphire*_ & _*AsRock*_ only with "goodwill", _*Zotac*_ only the first 2 years.


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Dec 5, 2022)

MarsM4N said:


> Is that a new law? __ Over here, _according to ComputerBase_ from their 2020 report only *Asus*_,_* EVGA*_,_* KFA *_&_* MSI* allowed to disassemble a card.
> _*Sapphire*_ & _*AsRock*_ only with "goodwill", _*Zotac*_ only the first 2 years.


In the US, our president issued Executive Order 14036, giving the Federal Trade Commission jurisdiction to enforce the right to repair. Whether that includes disassembling GPUs or not I do not know.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 5, 2022)

MarsM4N said:


> Is that a new law?


It is recent in the US. Canada, the UK and the EU have had something like it on the books for longer(not sure how much longer).



Count von Schwalbe said:


> Whether that includes disassembling GPUs or not I do not know.


It does.


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## MarsM4N (Dec 6, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> It is recent in the US. Canada, the UK and the EU have had something like it on the books for longer(not sure how much longer).



Yes, you're talking about the _"*Right to repair*"_ legislation. 

However, it isn't already baked out & they are still working things out. To my knowledge it's mostly about designing products repairable & providing replacement parts for a cetrain time frame and for prices that make repairs cheaper than throwing the product away and buying a new one. It's more about reducing e-waste. Not sure if it covers self repair, but replacement parts will have also provided to "non certified" repair shops, which will drive the prices of repairs quite down.


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## Bomby569 (Dec 6, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not in NA or EU. Both regions have adopted laws that make warranty exclusion for such reasons unlawful. Anywhere else, it'll depend on the local consumer protection laws.



For EU can you quote a source for this. I'm not doubting i just wanted to have one.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 6, 2022)

MarsM4N said:


> However, it isn't already baked out & they are still working things out.


No, a federal agency ruled that removing a warranty sticker and disassembling a product can not be used as a reason to invalidate a warranty, especially on products that can reasonably be expected to need servicing. Technically, under that ruling, the fix described in this thread doesn't violate warranty either as it is only adding to the product it's being applied to and not specifically altering the construction design.








						FTC Staff Warns Companies that It Is Illegal to Condition Warranty Coverage on the Use of Specified Parts or Services
					

The Federal Trade Commission staff has sent warning letters to six major companies that market and sell automobiles, cellular devices, and video gaming systems in the United States.




					www.ftc.gov
				






Bomby569 said:


> For EU can you quote a source for this. I'm not doubting i just wanted to have one.


I don't know where the specific EU statues are for that, sorry. I do know that it's a part of the consumer protections laws. Maybe someone from the EU can chime in?


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## MarsM4N (Dec 9, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> No, a federal agency ruled that removing a warranty sticker and disassembling a product can not be used as a reason to invalidate a warranty, especially on products that can reasonably be expected to need servicing. Technically, under that ruling, the fix described in this thread doesn't violate warranty either as it is only adding to the product it's being applied to and not specifically altering the construction design.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, that's nice for you. __ The FTC has zero jurisdiction in Europe, so they can still get away with their *warranty sticker shenanigans* over here.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 10, 2022)

MarsM4N said:


> The FTC has zero jurisdiction in Europe, so they can still get away with their *warranty sticker shenanigans* over here.


As stated above, the EU has similar consumer protection laws.


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## Space Lynx (Dec 12, 2022)

@lexluthermiester 

going to try this on my mobo if all else fails in next couple days... thread below I made if you interested. i will be making a video to share the sound later today 









						Is there anyway to reduce motherboard (NOT GPU) coil whine?
					

My Gigabyte B650m Aorus Elite AX has insane coil whine when it is running in benchmark or demanding program. It so high pitched it literally hurts your ears after a bit, its been this way since I got it. Most games don't trigger the coil whine, its only synthetic benchmarks and very demanding...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 12, 2022)

Space Lynx said:


> @lexluthermiester
> 
> going to try this on my mobo if all else fails in next couple days... thread below I made if you interested. i will be making a video to share the sound later today
> 
> ...


This method works just as well on motherboard & PSU coils as it does GPU coils. YouTube video?


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## Kazuaar (Dec 15, 2022)

Hi guys, Thank god to found you with this super glue solution for cw. I just purchased an ASUS ROG Strix 4080 for my son to Christmas, 
and I'm absolutely disgusted at this sound from such a crazy expensive hardware.
Do you have a picture what parts need to be superglued on the card?
That would be a huge help because I'm not really an electronic engineer... 
Oh, and is this glue would be ok for the procedure? 








						Professional Super Glue Liquid from Loctite Adhesives
					

Professional applications where fast drytime and highest strength are desired.




					www.loctiteproducts.com
				



Thanks a lot!


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 15, 2022)

Kazuaar said:


> Hi guys, Thank god to found you with this super glue solution for cw. I just purchased an ASUS ROG Strix 4080 for my son to Christmas,
> and I'm absolutely disgusted at this sound from such a crazy expensive hardware.
> Do you have a picture what parts need to be superglued on the card?
> That would be a huge help because I'm not really an electronic engineer...
> ...


Hey there, Welcome to TPU! 
First point, I would *highly recommend* you get in touch with ASUS about this as they are generally good about warrantying cards with noisy chokes. If you take the card apart and perform this kind of modification, they might claim the warranty is void. IF because of where you live in the world a warranty claim is not possible, then let's proceed, but please take extreme care.

The following photo is from that card's review by @W1zzard here at TPU.








						ASUS GeForce RTX 4080 STRIX OC Review
					

The ASUS GeForce RTX 4080 STRIX OC is a masterpiece graphics card design. It looks fantastic and is built like a tank, thanks to thick metal used on both the main cooler shroud and the backplate. The card is also the highest-clocked in our reviews and comes with a super powerful VRM.




					www.techpowerup.com
				



Make sure this is your card. If not, please take a photo of the card you have and upload it and I'll direct you on which parts are the choke coils.




Shown above are the main coils of concern. The SAP2 coils are designed to be fill through coils and are unlikely to be the source of the noise. However, if you find that they are, the only thing you can do it is to apply glue to the bottom of the choke as there might be a vibrations being generated from between the coil and the PCB. Makes sure to use enough to wick all the way through the spacing between the coil and the PCB.


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## Kazuaar (Dec 15, 2022)

I can't tank you enough! 
Probably ASUS won't accept my ticket here in Hungary... 
By the way is the linked glue good for the process or do you suggest another one?


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## Wirko (Dec 15, 2022)

Kazuaar said:


> I can't tank you enough!
> Probably ASUS won't accept my ticket here in Hungary...
> By the way is the linked glue good for the process or do you suggest another one?


It's good. Any liquid cyanoacrylate glue will do. However, you need it to be as thin as possible, which means that you need fresh glue. Avoid buying it if it's nearly expired (the shelf life is supposed to be one year). Use it in a few weeks after opening.

The glue becomes thicker over time, it's still good for other purposes then but it won't get under the coils easily, or not at all.


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## Kazuaar (Dec 15, 2022)

Wirko said:


> It's good. Any liquid cyanoacrylate glue will do. However, you need it to be as thin as possible, which means that you need fresh glue. Avoid buying it if it's nearly expired (the shelf life is supposed to be one year). Use it in a few weeks after opening.
> 
> The glue becomes thicker over time, it's still good for other purposes but won't get under the coils easily, or not at all.


Thank you very much!  By the way do I need to turn the PCB upside down to help glue to flow everywhere or just spray it into the covering cap?


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 15, 2022)

Kazuaar said:


> I can't tank you enough!


You're Welcome!


Kazuaar said:


> Probably ASUS won't accept my ticket here in Hungary...


I wondered if that was going to be a thing.


Kazuaar said:


> By the way is the linked glue good for the process or do you suggest another one?


Yup, that stuff will be perfect.



Wirko said:


> The glue becomes thicker over time, it's still good for other purposes then but it won't get under the coils easily, or not at all.


That only happens if the lid isn't sealed well. Otherwise it stays very liquid-like for years when stored properly.


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## Mussels (Dec 16, 2022)

Just dont put superglue on TOP of them like you would thermal paste, especially for anything that has thermal pads on top of them


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## lightning70 (Dec 16, 2022)

MarsM4N said:


> There are also non invasive methods to eliminate/reduce coil whine. *Undervolting* & *FPS cap*:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This solution doesn't work for everyone, I think the clear solution is in the above post.


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## Mussels (Dec 16, 2022)

lightning70 said:


> This solution doesn't work for everyone, I think the clear solution is in the above post.


It certainly helps, it's part of the overall solution.
Something in my system whines when i run everything balls to the wall flatout voltages, even after changing every piece of hardware - something always has it.

In the future, next GPU Teardown i'll be adding glue to the coils on my 3090 since i believe they've been getting worse over time - with any undervolt it's not there, and with any FPS cap it's not there but certain games load screens that run up to a billion FPS can make almost anything whine


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## lightning70 (Dec 16, 2022)

Mussels said:


> It certainly helps, it's part of the overall solution.
> Something in my system whines when i run everything balls to the wall flatout voltages, even after changing every piece of hardware - something always has it.
> 
> In the future, next GPU Teardown i'll be adding glue to the coils on my 3090 since i believe they've been getting worse over time - with any undervolt it's not there, and with any FPS cap it's not there but certain games load screens that run up to a billion FPS can make almost anything whine


I have a 3080 and the coils cry even at 120 fps but the card is under warranty but they don't replace the whining because they don't see a problem.


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## Mussels (Dec 16, 2022)

lightning70 said:


> I have a 3080 and the coils cry even at 120 fps but the card is under warranty but they don't replace the whining because they don't see a problem.


my gigabyte 3080 had insane whine, this 3090 made my corsair PSU whine so i went fractal - which was whine free, but now some sneaks in on very specific situations only
(basically, a 5800x3D + a 3090 can reach some stupid high FPS at things like skyrims load screens where FPS caps slow load times...)


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 17, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Just dont put superglue on TOP of them like you would thermal paste, especially for anything that has thermal pads on top of them


Unless it's a top-open choke(they have made them in the past) and you're sealing the top. Making sure to let it cure before applying thermal pads/paste.


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## Lagoochu360 (Dec 25, 2022)

Hello, I stumbled across your post while searching for ways to address coil whine on GPUs. My Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 6800 XT has some pretty nasty coil whine when I play anything at 120fps. It sounded kinda like this it was very annoying 








I decided to try your super glue method, but the gorilla glue I had on hand was pretty thick so I didn't think it would work as well. I used a different bottle called RapidFuse Ultra Clear All-Purpose Adhesive. Its not supposed to go bad unless you put more than 100C on it compared to the gorilla glue specs.

I was feeling kinda lazy and stupid so instead of taking apart of the entire cooler...I just nozzled some adhesive in there and used a long toothpick to work the glue into the chokes. The adhesive instructions say the excess can be wiped off with paper towels before it could dry , it was pretty easy to clean the messy bits, although some chokes do look at bit sloppy  , thankfully the cooler hides the mess...

After a few hours of letting of it set...the coil whine was still there but a bit less noisy. However after almost a day of letting it cure, WOW! The noise is virtually gone! Before I could have heard the coil whine from across the room, now I have to put my ear right next to my GPU just to barely hear it.

So for this model of GPU, the operation was a success. I recommend others to try if you have noticeable coil whine issues.


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## lightning70 (Dec 25, 2022)

Lagoochu360 said:


> Hello, I stumbled across your post while searching for ways to address coil whine on GPUs. My Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 6800 XT has some pretty nasty coil whine when I play anything at 120fps. It sounded kinda like this it was very annoying
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where exactly do we need to apply this adhesive? i'm ignorant about this. One of my cards has this problem.
Any chance to show it on PCB? happens in the photo.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 25, 2022)

Lagoochu360 said:


> Hello, I stumbled across your post while searching for ways to address coil whine on GPUs. My Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 6800 XT has some pretty nasty coil whine when I play anything at 120fps. It sounded kinda like this it was very annoying
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're welcome. Glad it worked for you in that situation! This does highlight how the wicking action of the glue can work wonders. 

BTW, Welcome to TPU!



lightning70 said:


> Where exactly do we need to apply this adhesive? i'm ignorant about this. One of my cards has this problem.
> Any chance to show it on PCB? happens in the photo.


In the first post of the thread, I took a photo showing where to apply the glue. You spread it around the edges of the choke-coil with enough to wick into the space between the choke and the PCB. Make sure you use the liquid super glue type. Gel type super glue wil not work as well(if at all).


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## Lagoochu360 (Dec 25, 2022)

lightning70 said:


> Where exactly do we need to apply this adhesive? i'm ignorant about this. One of my cards has this problem.
> Any chance to show it on PCB? happens in the photo.


Someone posted a photo some time back in this thread of a Sapphire 6900 XT Nitro. The PCB is basically the same as mines just without RGB. Ideally you would seal the highlighted components in that image back there, but what I did was listen by ear where the noise is most concentrated from and then gooped up the chokes that I could get access to without removing the cooler. You should probably remove the cooler to be more professional and accurate instead of being lazy like me


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 25, 2022)

Lagoochu360 said:


> You should probably remove the cooler to be more professional and accurate instead of being lazy like me


This. I didn't want to criticize or seem to harsh, but the card really should be disassembled for best results. No worries though as you got the job done.


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## Lagoochu360 (Dec 25, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> This. I didn't want to criticize or seem to harsh, but the card really should be disassembled for best results. No worries though as you got the job done.


I really wanted to dissemble it at first but I couldn't find my tiny screwdriver for the backplate. Was too lazy to pick up a new one at the local store after I just got the adhesive, after examining the card I realized that there were gaps in between the cooler exposing some of the chokes so I decided to YOLO it  

It worked in the end though, thank you kindly.


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## lightning70 (Dec 25, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> This. I didn't want to criticize or seem to harsh, but the card really should be disassembled for best results. No worries though as you got the job done.


Those red lines are coils, are we going to apply them to the spaces in between, sir?
I can remove the cooler no problem for me. I had previously removed and pasted many video card coolers for thermal paste replacement.


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## Mussels (Dec 26, 2022)

lightning70 said:


> Those red lines are coils, are we going to apply them to the spaces in between, sir?
> I can remove the cooler no problem for me. I had previously removed and pasted many video card coolers for thermal paste replacement.


basically, yes.
Theres images in the first page showing what's inside those and why the glue helps contain the noise/reduce vibration



You want some glue on all four sides, not the top where the thermal pad contacts them

If you can narrow down where the whine comes from in advance, you might not need to apply it to all of them


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 27, 2022)

lightning70 said:


> Those red lines are coils, are we going to apply them to the spaces in between, sir?


IF those are the chokes making noise, then yes. However, don't just glue the ones that you've highlighted. Do them all.



Mussels said:


> If you can narrow down where the whine comes from in advance, you might not need to apply it to all of them


While that is generally good thinking, when some chokes whine, the others are likely to follow in time. I practice and advise sealing them all in a line of them like those just to avoid having to do the same job again later.


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## Dj0ntist (Dec 29, 2022)

So I tried this method with my 4090 strix, without gluing the SAP coils, didn't really do anything. The non-SAP chokes didn't really have any gaps between the choke cap and the pcb, doubt that the glue even flowed in the coils. Guess I'll have to try gluing the SAP ones too. Tho they are already filled so it probs won't do anything either.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 29, 2022)

Dj0ntist said:


> So I tried this method with my 4090 strix, without gluing the SAP coils, didn't really do anything. The non-SAP chokes didn't really have any gaps between the choke cap and the pcb, doubt that the glue even flowed in the coils. Guess I'll have to try gluing the SAP ones too. Tho they are already filled so it probs won't do anything either.


You're not trying to "fill" the coils, you're sealing the opening between the choke housing and PCB so that noise can't escape the choke housing.

BTW, welcome to TPU!


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## dragontamer5788 (Dec 29, 2022)

Hmm.

Trying to figure out the physics behind this. I've got two theories.

1. Piezoelectric effect -- Some materials bend / move when you apply electricity to them.

2. Electromagnetic effect -- Inductors create magnetic fields.

I'm thinking #2 is the issue. As the coil builds up EMF, the various metals in the case pull upon the inductor and the inductor physically moves. Then, 1/60th of a second later, the alternating-current electricity disappears, so the inductor moves back into its default place. Then 1/60th of a second later, the coil charges back up again, etc. etc. Creating a 60Hz tone / whine.

#1 has been known to be the case in some MLCC capacitors, crystals, and other things.


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## Dj0ntist (Dec 29, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> You're not trying to "fill" the coils, you're sealing the opening between the choke housing and PCB so that noise can't escape the choke housing.
> 
> BTW, welcome to TPU!


Well I certainly sealed any openings, the non- SAP chokes were very tight against the pcb already. But isn't the point of low viscosity glue that it goes IN the choke coil?

And thanks for the warm welcome :----)


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 29, 2022)

This problem has already been analyzed. The choke coils themselves are physically vibrating and creating a resonance effect that generates sound at various frequencies. Most are so high pitched that they are inaudible to the human ear and most other mammals. However some drift down into the audible ranges.



Dj0ntist said:


> the non- SAP chokes were very tight against the pcb already.


Perhaps, but unless they are sealed with an adhesive, there still exists a tiny gap sound can emanate from. It's important to seal that gap completely. Seal up all of your chokes and the problem should diminish if it doesn't go away entirely.


Dj0ntist said:


> And thanks for the warm welcome :----)


You're Welcome.


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## Mussels (Dec 30, 2022)

The cover can vibrate and hum on the PCB of the card, liquid that wicks inside can reduce the vibration while sealing the outside prevents the high pitched whine

both help


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## athenaesword (Yesterday at 11:29 AM)

lexluthermiester said:


> Hey there, Welcome to TPU!
> First point, I would *highly recommend* you get in touch with ASUS about this as they are generally good about warrantying cards with noisy chokes. If you take the card apart and perform this kind of modification, they might claim the warranty is void. IF because of where you live in the world a warranty claim is not possible, then let's proceed, but please take extreme care.
> 
> The following photo is from that card's review by @W1zzard here at TPU.
> ...





lexluthermiester said:


> IF those are the chokes making noise, then yes. However, don't just glue the ones that you've highlighted. Do them all.
> 
> 
> While that is generally good thinking, when some chokes whine, the others are likely to follow in time. I practice and advise sealing them all in a line of them like those just to avoid having to do the same job again later.


hi there, thank you for this guide. i'm embarking on it in a week or so. just to confirm here though the  ones that you've circled here on the 4080 ti look different to the straight rows boxed up by @lightning70 in his picture. 
which ones are we suppsoed to do? i have a ASUS TUF 4090 currently with an EK waterblock which i need to remove to do this.


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## lexluthermiester (Yesterday at 12:00 PM)

athenaesword said:


> hi there, thank you for this guide.


You're Welcome!



athenaesword said:


> i'm embarking on it in a week or so. just to confirm here though the ones that you've circled here on the 4080 ti look different to the straight rows boxed up by @lightning70 in his picture.
> which ones are we suppsoed to do? i have a ASUS TUF 4090 currently with an EK waterblock which i need to remove to do this.


Using a photo of that PCB(courtesy of W1zzards review), The chokes shown circled in Red are the most likely culprits. However, the SAP chokes(circled in Yellow) could also be the source(s) of noise. You can do them all at once if you don't want to chance a second job, or you can do the Reds first and then Yellows later if you still have noise. It's up to you.


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