# Major BUG: GPU-Z causes Windows 10 PC to hard lock



## Naki (Sep 13, 2017)

Using Windows 10 OS, 64-bit Pro - version 1703.
GPU-Z, as well as lots of other apps/programs are set to start automatically with the OS.
Other Specs of problem PC: ASUS mobo, Intel Core i3 CPU (socket 1150), 16 GB of RAM, AMD Radeon R9 390 card with 8 GB of videoRAM. Intel SSD+2 Seagate HDDs (5 TB slower Archive HDD+ 3 GB faster desktop HDD).
Using latest Beta/non-WHQL AMD Radeon drivers version: 17.9.1, dated Sept 7th 2017 - installed a few days ago.
Input devices are Microsoft Ergonomic Sculpt Desktop 2.0, wireless (1 USB receiver for the 2 devices.)
EDIT: I am using Windows 10 Fast boot/Fast startup with GPT/UEFI mode for my Intel SSD/Windows OS.
Other system apps set to start with OS: Core Temp 1.10.2 64-bit, but I am pretty much sure it is not the issue here, as it starts fine and then starts working properly (shows CPU cores' temps/load/etc).
(Non-system apps/programs starting also are lots of them, but I do not think they apply. Still, I will list some just in case: Skype, Viber, ICQ, several Cloud apps, Spotify, Evernote, Slack/etc)

PROBLEM: Today when I powered up my PC, I noticed GPU-Z splash-screen getting "stuck" for a long time. I thought this is nothing special, as it has happened before, just wait and GPU-Z will start and splash screen will go away, as it should. NOT so! The PC was frozen - mouse pointer did not react, keyboard too. The HDD light was blinking, so the PC did not completely freeze, but was fully unusable due to mouse & keyboard not responding. Then I had to forcefully restart the PC 4-5 times via the Reset button on the case - but this did not help any.
The last time I did so, I very quickly started Task Manager early after login, and was able to kill the culprit - GPU-Z - so that it does not freeze the PC again. And the PC now works.
I am afraid to restart now! And I really do not want this happening tomorrow (I turn off my PC every night).

Any comments? Please fix this ASAP.


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## W1zzard (Sep 13, 2017)

Could be the new AMD drivers. Are you able to reproduce it every time?


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## Naki (Sep 13, 2017)

Don't know. Only happened first today. As I said, I restarted the PC 4-5 times until I got it to work, so this definitely happened more than once.

I am not willing to restart the PC now - I am behind 5-6 days with my work, and I cannot work if the PC freezes, as you know.

NOTE: If it matters, I am using Windows 10 Fast boot/Fast startup with GPT/UEFI mode for my Intel SSD/Windows OS.


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## AlienIsGOD (Sep 13, 2017)

I've had freezing problems too, only 2 times though. Last time was after updating to latest version, I launched it and the PC froze requiring a hard reset. Can't replicate though as every time I've run it since then it behaves properly


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## deadman3000 (Sep 18, 2017)

Happens to me a lot. AMD 17.9.1 drivers here. Usually happens after changing the voltage settings (I think) in WattMan then opening GPU-Z.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 18, 2017)

Revert to previous drivers


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## R-T-B (Sep 18, 2017)

eidairaman1 said:


> Revert to previous drivers



Obviously that's a workaround.  That doesn't fix the bug in GPU-Z however.


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## vegaio (Sep 18, 2017)

I had also  a series of hard locks while using GPU-Z. I use a Vega AIO with a 750W Titanium grade PSU, drivers are 17.9.1. I think that it also could a problem with unsufficient power, as the for Vega AIO a 1000W PSU is required. I had hard locks ingame and on desktop. I experienced also hard locks while using HWINFO64. I already ordered a more powerful PSU.


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## kn00tcn (Sep 19, 2017)

Naki said:


> I am not willing to restart the PC now - I am behind 5-6 days with my work, and I cannot work if the PC freezes, as you know.


your work is more important than gpuz, why do you need gpuz? kak mozhe taka

there are other tools like hwinfo that list both cpu+gpu instead of using two separate programs


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## LocoDiceGR (Sep 19, 2017)

Well, i had this problem happened once...had gpu-z running on start up.


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## Naki (Sep 19, 2017)

kn00tcn said:


> your work is more important than gpuz, why do you need gpuz? kak mozhe taka
> 
> there are other tools like hwinfo that list both cpu+gpu instead of using two separate programs


I am a proud beta tester of GPU-Z! Also, I have suggested many features/new functions over the years, many of which were implemented by GPU-Z author. 
So, I like GPU-Z and do not want to use anything else for this.

Could be not GPU-Z, in fact. Maybe a combination of those latest AMD Radeon drivers+my Windows 10 being Insider Preview.
MY Windows 10 OS is the Insider Preview kind, maybe I should have mentioned that.

RE Core Temp, I have translated it into Bulgarian, and also suggested some new features, implemented by author (for Core Temp, just a few - less than those I suggested for GPU-Z). 
So, likewise I like it and do not want to stop using it.


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## Totally (Sep 19, 2017)

Also using GPU-Z 2.40, W10Pro 1703, along with 17.9.1 drivers (more info listed in system specs), am not experiencing this behavior.


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## vegaio (Oct 2, 2017)

Do this problem persists with 17.9.3? Cannot test that cause no access to PC since a week.


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## LocoDiceGR (Oct 2, 2017)

I just had this problem again yesterday, i started gpu-z and pc freeze (17.9.3).

I think its very random, no idea what triggers that.


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## Naki (Oct 2, 2017)

Totally said:


> Also using GPU-Z 2.40, W10Pro 1703, along with 17.9.1 drivers (more info listed in system specs), am not experiencing this behavior.


This is a useless post of yours and is thus spam. Also, you use an AMD platform so not really quite relevant to my/other persons here issues, as issue is with Intel CPU/platform and not AMD.
Video card not the same too - my problem PC has R9 390 card, and I have a 2nd PC with 480 card which works fine with no such issues.



vegaio said:


> Do this problem persists with 17.9.3? Cannot test that cause no access to PC since a week.


No idea yet. I have 17.9.3 now, and I think I got a freeze just once. But not 6 times in a row as previously.
Need to use the 17.9.3 drivers for more days to be sure.
On an unrelated note, GPU-Z seems to have other issues for me now too, such as high CPU usage for no reason, plus Notification area icon getting "stuck" - non-clickable - too when this happens.
(after updating to latest Windows 10 Insider Preview build and latest AMD Radeon drivers you quoted)



LocoDiceGR said:


> I just had this problem again yesterday, i started gpu-z and pc freeze (17.9.3).
> 
> I think its very random, no idea what triggers that.


For starters, you can try disabling Fast boot in your BIOS/UEFI, and disable Fast startup in your Windows 10 OS Control Panel. Please let us know if that helps any.


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## vegaio (Oct 2, 2017)

I use an AMD Ryzen platform too together with Vega AIO. It seems, the specific driver versions together with GPU-Z trigger this hard lock sometimes. Maybe Fiji/Vega only issue.


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## Naki (Oct 2, 2017)

My AMD Radeon R9 390 card the problem PC has is not Fiji, it is Hawaii Pro:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_(disambiguation)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Radeon_RX_300_series#Desktop_products

EDIT: And my CPU is an Intel Core i3, so not any AMD product at all, at least in my case.


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## Naki (Oct 15, 2017)

Issue status report -- as of 2-3 weeks now, all is mostly fine, the issue is not happening any more.
Only changes are updating my Windows 10 Pro 64-bit OS to a newer build.
And also I had some issues with built-in LAN card, and added a 2nd external PCI LAN card to the PC (Intel 1 Gbit card).

For those of you guys that had same issue, is it fixed for you too now?
Or does it keep happening occasionally, please?


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## jsfitz54 (Oct 15, 2017)

Naki said:


> Only changes are updating my Windows 10 Pro 64-bit OS to a newer build.



*Your SPECS:* Windows 10 Pro 64-bit version *1511* + all updates installed

NEWEST BELOW

*SEE THIS:* https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/download-windows-10-th-rs.216164/



Drone said:


> *Microsoft Windows 10 Fall Creators Update
> (version 1709 aka RS3, build 16299.15) (October 2017)*


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## Naki (Oct 15, 2017)

Sorry, those specs listed are very outdated, I am not using that at all. Will update in a bit, I am overloaded with work in recent weeks. 

EDIT: Fixed.


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## LocoDiceGR (Nov 30, 2017)

GPU-Z 2.5.0 - Relive 17.11.4 (From clean install using DDU)

Just had a random hard lock/freeze when i opened it.


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## vegaio (Nov 30, 2017)

It's a driver issue on Vega LC and with 17.11.2 did produce hard locks, but going back to totally stable 17.11.1 solved it. Cant say about 17.11.3 and 17.11.4, because will not try. I cant say if running GPU-Z 2.5.0 matters at all regarding that issue.


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## fullinfusion (Nov 30, 2017)

LocoDiceGR said:


> GPU-Z 2.5.0 - Relive 17.11.4 (From clean install using DDU)
> 
> Just had a random hard lock/freeze when i opened it.


Just roll back to the version before this one


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## W1zzard (Nov 30, 2017)

I'm making some progress identifying the various crash issues, so is AMD, maybe in the end something workable can be found.


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## fullinfusion (Nov 30, 2017)

@W1zzard hit me up if you need anything


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## vegaio (Nov 30, 2017)

Maybe i should add, theres no stability problem at all with GPU-Z latest version running and 17.11.1 driver. But there are many crashes with 17.11.2 , but i did not test, if the crashes with 17.11.2 would persist without GPU-Z running.


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## jaggerwild (Nov 30, 2017)

O


Naki said:


> Sorry, those specs listed are very outdated, I am not using that at all. Will update in a bit, I am overloaded with work in recent weeks.
> 
> EDIT: Fixed.


Over loaded with work but enough time to come here n post that it happened once.
 I think TOMSHARDWARE misses you!!! Go back towards the light!!!!


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 1, 2017)

vegaio said:


> Maybe i should add, theres no stability problem at all with GPU-Z latest version running and 17.11.1 driver. But there are many crashes with 17.11.2 , but i did not test, if the crashes with 17.11.2 would persist without GPU-Z running.



Thank you for affirming what works instead of complaining like some members here do and have a chip on their shoulder.


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## Naki (Dec 1, 2017)

jaggerwild said:


> O
> 
> Over loaded with work but enough time to come here n post that it happened once.
> I think TOMSHARDWARE misses you!!! Go back towards the light!!!!


My freeze was most definitely NOT once. It was many times.
Anyway, all fine now - in the recent 1 month, month and a half I have got no such freezes any more. Maybe one of the (semi-)recent AMD Radeon drivers updates helped, and/or same for Windows 10 updates/new builds I installed.
Using 17.11.2 drivers now, will update today to 17.11.4.

RE TomsHardware forums,  please note I check out some of the eNews links they send me from time to time, but I do not usually do English forums. I use local native ones instead, being in Bulgaria. 
The only exceptions are these GPU-Z forums, and Core Temp forums too.



vegaio said:


> Maybe i should add, theres no stability problem at all with GPU-Z latest version running and 17.11.1 driver. But there are many crashes with 17.11.2 , but i did not test, if the crashes with 17.11.2 would persist without GPU-Z running.


What crashes? Please be more specific. Does the whole PC crash with a BSOD/GSOD?
Do apps other than GPU-Z crash, or GPU-Z itself?
If other apps crash, list their names.

Also, kindly note this thread is not related to any crashing, but freezing. This is not the same thing. If you get crashes, please start a new thread for your issues, or bump a proper thread, which this is not.


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## vegaio (Dec 1, 2017)

The monitor goes blank and sound comes to a halt after 5-10 seconds. So i have to manually hard reboot. But only with 17.11.2 . 17.11.1 there is no problem at all. I run 17.11.1 several weeks now without any problems and while running GPU-Zlatest version.


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## Naki (Dec 1, 2017)

Thanks! Okay, very similar to what I got a few times. In my case no sound mostly, as issue happens on startup, so no music or music videos are playing, yet. And I do not get a black/blank screen, the image on the screen for me was whatever showed on screen when GPU-Z caused the freeze. (and as I said, the issue seems fixed for me now)
What you report is a freeze, not a crash. Freeze & crash are not the same thing, please note.

I did get what you say on my other PC with an older Radeon R9 290 card a while ago, but I rarely use that one directly (I use it for my work with remote access to it).

Check out 17.1.14 drivers - out since a few days. Maybe it could help?
It has some known issues, so be prepared for some:
http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-art...son-ReLive-Edition-17.11.4-Release-Notes.aspx
(I think it may cause issues with MS Excel & MS Word. AMD do not say which exact software they mean, but usually it is that, as there were all kinds of issues previously with Microsoft Office with some of these non-WHQL drivers.)

Also, December rename/rebrand of the AMD Radeon drivers is coming soon!  Hope the drivers will get better with every week.
It will be named: *Adrenalin Edition*

*http://links.em.experience.amd.com/...MwNjQ2NDExNzAyS0&j=MTE2NDA3NzM1NQS2&mt=1&rt=0*

*







*
Hmm, music sounds very Matrixy to me.


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## vegaio (Dec 5, 2017)

Seems like there is a prob with HWinfo:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1634018/official-vega-frontier-rx-vega-owners-thread/4980#post_26482254
http://www.overclock.net/t/1634018/official-vega-frontier-rx-vega-owners-thread/4980#post_26482547

I had some crashes too with the latest driver and even one time with the formerly thought stable 17.11.1 (no HWINFO, but GPU-Z running).


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## Naki (Dec 13, 2017)

Thanks for the update! 
Finally AMD Radeon Adrenalin Edition is out, a few days ago. If you want, please check if it changes anything for you.


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## Jon8RFC (Mar 8, 2019)

I wanted to chime in that I, too, have this issue.  It occurs reliably with two monitors, gpu-z on the second monitor, and running Counterstrike: Global Offensive.

It happened reliably on an old q9550, HD5870, Win10, two monitors and CSGO. It also happens reliably with an i7-7700, GTX 1070, Win10, two monitors and CSGO.  Just one monitor seems to not be an issue, and I have no problems until I run gpu-z while utilizing two monitors and occasional lock ups which I can't reproduce, but it will always lock up with CSGO.  I can't recall if it happened on the q9550 system with Win7.


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## W1zzard (Mar 8, 2019)

Jon8RFC said:


> I wanted to chime in that I, too, have this issue.  It occurs reliably with two monitors, gpu-z on the second monitor, and running Counterstrike: Global Offensive.
> 
> It happened reliably on an old q9550, HD5870, Win10, two monitors and CSGO. It also happens reliably with an i7-7700, GTX 1070, Win10, two monitors and CSGO.  Just one monitor seems to not be an issue, and I have no problems until I run gpu-z while utilizing two monitors and occasional lock ups which I can't reproduce, but it will always lock up with CSGO.  I can't recall if it happened on the q9550 system with Win7.


Are you using latest GPU-Z? I think the crashes were fixed a few versions ago


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## Jon8RFC (Mar 8, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Are you using latest GPU-Z? I think the crashes were fixed a few versions ago


I'm using 2.17.0 at the moment, which is the version released 10 days ago, and it causes lock ups very reliably.  Every version prior to 2.17.0, for about the past year that I can confidently recall (and likely longer than that), has also caused the lock ups.


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## W1zzard (Mar 8, 2019)

thanks, i'll do more testing with csgo then


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## Jon8RFC (Mar 8, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> thanks, i'll do more testing with csgo then


Oh, I did some searching here and found this:
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...o-steam-valve-anti-cheat.248101/#post-3914194
That build, with SHA-1 hash E4E3FDDE1EB8ADAD8A8B1F3876A3401A7BC30E14 let me play a good 15-20 minutes and no lock ups, but I don't know if it's anti-cheat related and if it's coincidental that the mode I was playing didn't have it running, or if it only runs once per load to get a successful "it ran" logged and then not again for an hour, or until reloading the game, etc.  I ran 2.17.0 immediately after, and it didn't lock up after about 4-5 minutes, and it would reliably lock up within about a minute prior to using the linked version, without even starting a game.  So it may be coincidental.  I tested earlier this morning and 2.17.0 reliably locked up anywhere between 30-45 seconds of pressing the play button to load the game.

EDIT:
I thought I was in the clear, so I fired up 2.17.0 and it ran for about 5-8 minutes but locked up during a competitive match, so I'm guessing it's somehow anti-cheat related.

EDIT2:
I tried again with 2.11.0 and it lasted all the time in the menu and in the warmup of the competitive match, but once the competitive match actually began, it locked up within a minute.


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## W1zzard (Mar 15, 2019)

Just to confirm, you are seeing no issues with a single monitor, only on dual monitor?

Both HD 5870 and GTX 1070


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## Jon8RFC (Mar 15, 2019)

On the older system with the hd5870 it seemed more reliably unstable with dual monitors, but I only really hooked up that monitor when I really needed it, like to see gpuz and task manager on a whim, and it was likely after I had been playing a game, such as csgo.  Lots of smoke on a particular map would bog down my system, so I'd occasionally check with gpu-z mid-match and plug in my second monitor and it would often not be a problem, leading me to believe it was some dual-monitor configuration.  If I preemptively plugged in my second monitor and ran gpu-z once I saw what map was going to be played, it would lock up rather quickly.  Now, on my current system, I leave my monitor plugged in all the time and would run gpu-z often upon boot up, which would be before I'd run steam, and whenever I'd fire up csgo it would lock up.  Just poor coincidences on my part, sorry.

*I did more thorough testing today, with just the gtx 1070 system, to get you a better answer.  It's seemingly not related to monitor setup.  It's related to time when steam is run (and most likely, when VAC runs) and how long csgo is run before gpu-z is run...as of today, and how that software is designed.*


*If steam is started, gpu-z run, and then csgo run...within 120 seconds (it was between 15-65 seconds, but I used 120 to play it safe) of the game interface being displayed on the screen, it will lock up.*
*If steam is started, csgo run, and 120 seconds allowed to pass after the game interface is displayed on the screen, gpu-z can then be run, and then...*
*...it will not lock up for quite a long time.  What the specific range of time is, I don't know.*
*...if CSGO alone is exited and run again while gpu-z was running the whole time, it will still not lock up for a long period of time.*
*...if steam is fully exited, run again, and CSGO run again, while gpu-z was running the whole time, it WILL lock up within 120 seconds of sitting once the game interface is displayed.*
*(not fully tested) ...a competitive match is started, it will likely lock up within 120 seconds of a competitive match successfully passing the warmup phase and starting.*


This is as of today, and how the steam-VAC functionality is tied together.  It's a matter of timing to get it to lock up, and I'm very strongly inclined to think that it's related to when VAC runs, which appears to (as only one part I can observe) be tied to when steam was last run or logged in to, and either VAC or gpu-z get stuck when trying to access the same low-level hardware functions, maybe?  I'm no programmer, just trying to provide information so that you can form your own, better ideas.

EDIT: edited item 2.3 to specify that CSGO has to be run again as well


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## W1zzard (Mar 15, 2019)

Amazing testing, I'll try to reproduce


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## Jon8RFC (Mar 15, 2019)

Wow, I'm sorry to be full of misleading information, but I'll leave the previous stuff rather than edit it, because maybe it'll be relevant if/when steam/vac changes things in the future.

Rather than hastily jumping into CSGO, it seems like it also locks up after a successful steam login, as long as gpu-z has been running before that event.  Sitting at the Steam login prompt is fine for 2 minutes, sitting at the 2-factor authentication after entering name&password is fine for 2 minutes.  Upon successful login is when it locks up reliably after a short period.  This is unless or until they change how and when these apparent VAC scans occur.

If steam is run, and a short period is allowed to pass, gpu-z can be run.  This explains why I've been able to play PUBG for an hour, or more, without an issue--I boot up, run steam, check my email, then run the game and decide I want to monitor it with gpu-z.  However, if steam is run and that short period passes, gpu-z can be run without issue ONLY until CSGO (and maybe other current, VAC-enabled games?) is run for the first time within a particular steam login session, and the computer locks up shortly after.  It's not necessarily exclusively a data integrity check, but a system memory or hardware check.  I tinkered with this while doing a large steam download and as best I can tell, it doesn't care about download data integrity.  I tested with a Factorio download, no issue, and then a Dota 2 download and it was fine throughout and after completion, so long as gpu-z was run after the initial 2-minute safety buffer when steam logged in.  Again, I'm not doing anything other than observing, so this is all circumstantial speculation from a non-programmer and for anyone reading in the future, it's likely that this activity changes over time to circumvent cheaters, especially since it a lot of it seems to have very narrow-window time triggers.

EDIT:
I downloaded and tried two other VAC-enabled games Toxikk and Dota 2.  Toxikk seems like an abandoned game, so it played fine for 10 minutes and I moved on to Dota 2.  Dota 2, on the other hand, is pretty popular like CSGO and it did lock up in the sub 60-second range, even after Steam had run and passed what I assume are its initial VAC checks.  I ran gpu-z after many minutes of a successful Steam login, and had no issue until shortly after Dota 2 had loaded.


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## Sora (Apr 9, 2019)

You probably have something else running that implements the cpuid sdk such as corsair link / icue or one of the hwmon core based utilities that do not get along safely with gpu-z and the vac driver.


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## Jon8RFC (Apr 9, 2019)

Sora said:


> You probably have something else running that implements the cpuid sdk such as corsair link / icue or one of the hwmon core based utilities that do not get along safely with gpu-z and the vac driver.


I quit everything else to eliminate any chances of conflicts when confirming gpu-z and steam/vac, and don't run anything unusual like you mentioned, anyway.  I'm a pretty thorough edge-case troubleshooter.

Are you not able to replicate it yourself with a non-integrated graphics chip and a current vac-enabled game (that's the key--such as csgo or dota 2) on your steam account, Sora?
Have steam completely exited, run gpu-z, then sign on to steam and wait 2 minutes.

I don't know if vac runs dependent upon the account having used current vac-enabled games within a certain time period or not, so it's important to keep the test case similar before declaring "no problems".

I did send the VAC team an email a few weeks ago, and mentioned this situation, but haven't heard back.


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## Sora (Apr 9, 2019)

No, i can't.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 9, 2019)

Wow, this seems like one of those "perfect storm" of circumstances situations. This will be interesting to watch as it unfolds.


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## Jon8RFC (Apr 10, 2019)

As I suspected, Steam/VAC runs scans based on the last successful scan or successful intervals of scans.

I've run Steam many times in recent weeks without gpu-z.  I fired it up and no crash...yet.  I fired up CSGO and no crash...yet.  Then I decided to play a game of CSGO and after about 5-7 total minutes from having run steam, it locked up.

Upon reboot, because there was a previously failed VAC check, running gpu-z and then steam produced a lock up after about 40 seconds from successful logon to Steam.  I was able to repeat this, and it was not a one-time occurrence.  It needs a successful check within some time period before it goes into a limbo-state for the logon lock up until it's triggered by a different event.

So, all you need to do (for now, until the VAC team changes its intervals) is let it lock up just once (you have to be patient and let it do its thing in a current VAC game--play a full competitive match in CSGO while gpu-z has been running since before you ran steam), and then it will reliably lock up very quickly upon steam logon as long as you run gpu-z before running steam.  Once you let it have a successful scan, then it will seemingly be ok unless you run a current, VAC-enabled game for a substantial period of time such that it triggers a new scan.


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## W1zzard (Apr 18, 2019)

Jon8RFC said:


> play a full competitive match in CSGO


I've been trying to reproduce but my CSGO level is too low for competitive, and normal quickmatch seems to be running  fine.

Also, what graphics card did you use?


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## Jon8RFC (Apr 18, 2019)

Since mid-February it's been a GTX 1070 and I've been installing updated drivers when it notifies me.  Before that, it was an HD5870, which doesn't have any newer drivers than at least a year old.  Two, independent computers.

If you have a debug-type build you want to send my way, I can run that and get some logs to you.  This is pretty interesting to me.


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## W1zzard (Apr 18, 2019)

The problem is that I need a way to reproduce locally, so I could investigate a bunch of things that could cause it

I've seen the problem before, but thought I had fixed it since a few versions ago.


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## Jon8RFC (Apr 18, 2019)

Just for grins, I've setup an old drive and have a virgin windows10 installation on it, so it's ready exclusively for testing.

Installed Windows, installed steam (did not login yet), updated graphics drivers, rebooted, ran gpu-z, ran steam, logged in, locked up.
So, no games have even been installed on it yet.  It's about as clean as it can get.

If you have an equally-powerful graphics card to the 1070 you could loan to me in the interim, I could send you mine for testing, if you think it's strictly that.

It wouldn't be a pure win10 installation anymore, and I don't necessarily want to be wiping this drive over and over, but if you'd like me to toss in the HD5870 and install drivers for it, I can run it in this new computer on the win10 testing drive and see what happens.

And just to rule out steam account-related issues if heuristics scans are more aggressive for some reason--my accounts (one is 14.5 and the other is 5.5 years old) are both entirely clean of any bans of any type for any game, VAC-enabled or otherwise.


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## W1zzard (Apr 18, 2019)

Jon8RFC said:


> a virgin windows10 installation


i'll try that, maybe a fresh steam install runs the VAC scan right after login

First attempt with a GTX 1050, loads steam perfectly fine. which nvidia driver version do you have instlaled?

Update: GTX 1070 is fine, too


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## Jon8RFC (Apr 20, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> which nvidia driver version do you have instlaled?


425.31

Ok, I did many hours of testing to try to find a rhyme or reason, and I'm left with more questions than answers.

I fired up my old HD5870 machine did a fresh Win10 installation, and surprisingly, it magically no longer seemed to have the issue.  I tried and tried, no dice.  It often had the lockup issue though, as recent as February 2019, right when I got my new computer.

I pulled the audio card from my GTX 1070 and put it into the HD5870, still no issues.

I wiped the drive, again, for the GTX 1070 and kept the audio card out, and unplugged my printer (which I had forgotten about before), and it still reliably locked up.

I spent a long time playing in CSGO on the HD5870 both with and without the audio card, and still no problems.

I finally decided to do a sort of wonky test.  On the HD5870 machine, I loaded up CSGO and left it on the main screen, and had another computer pinging it once per minute to see when it locked up.  It hit a lockup at some point, but when I checked on it, it had actually just gone to sleep--I forgot to change power settings.  CSGO was still running, so I joined a CSGO deathmatch server, moved around a little bit so as to not be idle, then unplugged my mouse, keyboard, monitor, and used them to shutdown my other computer and had a third, low-power computer pinging the HD5870 once per minute to log when it no longer responds.  This went on for over two hours when I finally checked it again, so I thought "maybe it needs a monitor on and connected, I should at least waste some power on that".  At some point, it didn't lock up, because when I connected the monitor I was greeted with the following, which I've never seen before in my life:


http://imgur.com/a/GkiSBHh


So, it did have an issue at some point during those two hours, but it didn't lock up the computer.  I actually played for half an hour, earlier, and had no problems, so I just gave up and decided to let it sit, at which point it finally had an issue.

Windows firewall is setup to permit CSGO, as it always has been, and pfsense is running the same as it always has, and I've never had problems with CSGO.  Taking pfsense out of the equation still permitted the GTX 1070 system to lock up reliably.

This is becoming a nuisance rather than an interesting challenge, because it was repeatable on the HD5870 computer in the past (my new computer refuses to boot with the HD5870, unfortunately), but for some reason it isn't anymore, and ended up with that notification instead.  I'm going to now reboot the HD5870, join a deathmatch server again, leave the mouse, keyboard, monitor connected normally, while gpu-z runs in the background, and have another machine ping it for a few hours to see if/when it locks up...maybe the VAC issue earlier was residual from the computer going to sleep.  We'll see.


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## dark12 (Apr 21, 2019)

Jon8RFC said:


> I wanted to chime in that I, too, have this issue.  It occurs reliably with two monitors, gpu-z on the second monitor, and running Counterstrike: Global Offensive.
> 
> It happened reliably on an old q9550, HD5870, Win10, two monitors and CSGO. It also happens reliably with an i7-7700, GTX 1070, Win10, two monitors and CSGO.  Just one monitor seems to not be an issue, and I have no problems until I run gpu-z while utilizing two monitors and occasional lock ups which I can't reproduce, but it will always lock up with CSGO.  I can't recall if it happened on the q9550 system with Win7.



Made an account to say I have been busting my brain over this for the last month.
Spent countless hours messing with overclocks.  Formatted Windows 10. Even replaced my Vega56 with an RTX2070.  
Nothing has helped.
I am using triple monitor.  CSGO on main screen.  GPU-Z on second screen.
Hard locks.  Can't turn off num-lock.  Can't reset.  Must hard power off.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 21, 2019)

dark12 said:


> Can't reset. Must hard power off.


Your reset button literally doesn't work?


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## dark12 (Apr 21, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Your reset button literally doesn't work?


Correct.
I need to hold down the power button to turn it off.


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## Jon8RFC (Apr 22, 2019)

I'm glad we have another reliable system to test with!

My test with the (previously reliably locking up) Hd5870 ran last night for about 4 hours, and had no issues. No pop-up either, which was likely spilling over from when the computer went to sleep during the previous test.

Unfortunately, I can't identically-reproduce the situation before, which was dual-monitor on the hd5870. I'm inclined to think that's coincidental, but still would like to test it in the same manner. I used the two dvi outputs on the graphics card, and recently tossed all but one dvi cable. Since this isn't a simple problem, being nit-picky is important since the graphics card knows which outputs are in use. I have just one dvi cable now and will try to find/borrow another. 

I have a backup (and crazily paranoid) theory that this is an external, network-borne infection which re-infects the targeted computer even if windows is reinstalled, and it low-level monitors graphical output data for specific triggers (hence why it's not streaming constant video and making any noticeable network impact), before calling home. My old computer has simply "gone dark" for two months, so it's of no use anymore, which could explain why it has no problems anymore. I don't want to dedicate 2 months of using my slow computer again to (dis)prove this theory...and it's a power hog and heat demon.


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## dark12 (Apr 22, 2019)

Jon8RFC said:


> I'm glad we have another reliable system to test with!
> 
> My test with the (previously reliably locking up) Hd5870 ran last night for about 4 hours, and had no issues. No pop-up either, which was likely spilling over from when the computer went to sleep during the previous test.
> 
> ...


Interesting theory, but I am gonna stick with a GPU-Z bug in multi-monitor systems.  CSGO itself might be involved.
I can consistently get my rig to hard lock by playing csgo and leaving gpu-z sensor tab open on my other screen.
Sometimes it takes 2 seconds, sometimes 3 minutes.  But it never fails.


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## Jon8RFC (Apr 22, 2019)

dark12 said:


> I can consistently get my rig to hard lock by playing csgo and leaving gpu-z sensor tab open on my other screen.
> Sometimes it takes 2 seconds, sometimes 3 minutes.  But it never fails.


If you reboot, run gpu-z, THEN run and login to steam, but not open csgo or any other game, about how long does it take to lock up? For me, it varies, but it's typically around 40 seconds, and always under 2 minutes.


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## dark12 (Apr 22, 2019)

Jon8RFC said:


> If you reboot, run gpu-z, THEN run and login to steam, but not open csgo or any other game, about how long does it take to lock up? For me, it varies, but it's typically around 40 seconds, and always under 2 minutes.


About to pass out here.  Early day tomorrow.
This bug bothers me so much because when it happens, it often deletes all of my config settings when my pc comes back up.
I understand the importance of being able to recreate the problem though.


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## Jon8RFC (Apr 22, 2019)

I've done hours and hours of testing tonight, and even got my old HD5870 in my new computer (insta-lock, as well) and my new GTX 1070 in my old computer (zero lock ups, angrily).  Pulling the graphics card and using strictly the integrated graphics of the i7-7700 also produced quick, reliable lock-ups, on my real Win10 installation, or on a fresh Win10 installation.  Frustrating, and it officially has nothing to do with nvidia vs amd dedicated graphics.

Made a little progress, eventually, after doing a variety of things.  Steam/VAC does fingerprinting all the way down to which sata port you're using.  The best idea I can come up with is that certain hardware IDs (I guess a combo of the hardware itself and hardware configuration, such as which sata ports or IRQs) tied to certain steam accounts get flagged for more scrutinizing scans.  Everything I'm doing on my old computer, is a drastically different setup than it was back when I actually used it--different/fewer PCI-E slots are in use, just one hard drive instead of 6 I think, different output ports on the graphics card, and...a different sata port than I used 2 months ago.

I decided to reformat, pull the graphics card from my i7-7700, and it still locked up.  Next, on a whim, I used a sata port that I have never once used on this computer, other than before I used steam--all I used it for was to dban wipe the hard drive it came with--sata4.  All of a sudden, no lock ups.  I moved it back to sata0, and I got lock ups.  Moved it to sata1 (where the dvd drive is) and got lock ups.  Moved it back to sata4, no lock ups.  Then--here's where it gets interesting--I kept my other two drives unplugged, and simply moved my real Win10 drive to sata4, assuming that I would get no lock ups...it DID lock up.  I then unplugged it, and plugged the fresh Win10 back in to sata4, and all of a sudden it WAS reliably locking up again.  This is f-asterisk-ing ridiculous.  I reformatted, reinstalled Win10 on sata4, and it still locked up.  I tried my storage drive's port (this drive was in my old computer and is the current storage drive on my new computer, unchanged), sata2, and it locked up.  So, my next step was the below...

I'm posting this on a fresh Win10 install on the same testing drive I've been wiping over and over again, on my newer i7-7700, on sata3 (which I haven't used yet at all for testing purposes, and typically holds my old HD5870 computer's Win10 drive until I'm positive I need nothing else from it--which is NOT the current Win10 drive), with the GTX 1070 physically uninstalled, with the hard drive partitioned differently, on a brand new steam account, with a different windows account name setup, and it has not locked up.  I've exited steam, closed gpu-z, opened gpu-z and started steam and no lock ups; I've rebooted and done the same--no lock ups.

I'm about to ruin this in an attempt to prove what's happened before.  If I try my real steam account on the test hard drive right now, it may or may not work, but that part isn't quite relevant.  What I suspect will happen next, is if I plug in my real Win10 drive to sata3 and try my real steam account on there, it will absolutely lock up even if it worked on the test drive.  After that, I will then try the test Win10 drive again, I expect that my real steam account will lock up, even if it did work previously on the test Win10 drive; I will then try the newly-created steam account and I suspect that it will begin to lock up as well.  Coming up in an edit below...

*EDIT:*
The real Win10 drive and real steam account did lock up on sata3.  I plugged back in the test Win10 drive to sata3 and now the real steam account is locking up, while it wasn't before.  The test steam account, however, is still logging on just fine.  It has no associated VAC-enabled games on it, so maybe that plays a role.  ...I've now added CSGO and ran it once, briefly.  Quit and logged on again, no issues on the test steam account.

Also, just for the sake of testing, gpu-z 2.11.0 and older reliably locked up the old HD5870/q5550 machine which seems to (now, but not prior to March) run fine with versions newer than 2.11.0 at this point.  I thought maybe I needed to set some type of flag on the server side of things with Steam since I used older versions on that computer with random lock ups in the past two years, but I couldn't get that to work as expected.

@Naki
I have sent an email to the VAC team, but received no response.  I'd expect a very tier-1 type response from normal steam support, and they'd never escalate it since I can't provide the right and useful techno-babble.  If I can get useful info to W1zzard, I bet they can really get to the bottom of it, and either have steam fix their bug, or have Steam/VAC people help W1zzard figure out a work-around.  I've seen that type of collaboration between Factorio developers and AMD, which ended up being Ryzen's 2nd or 3rd "our CPUs are flawed, here's another BIOS update to alleviate it", so I wouldn't be the appropriate one to speak to steam people, even if it's steam's fault.

*EDIT 2:*
It's Steam/VAC account-related, primarily.  The test account works fine on the real Win10 drive and with everything hardware-related back to normal.  There must be more aggressive heuristics set to scan on certain steam/VAC accounts, and it's bumping heads with GPU-Z.  I've sent a lengthy help request through Steam, and linked to this thread.  Hopefully, they can shed some light on this.  Good call, @Naki


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## Naki (Apr 22, 2019)

Contacted Steam tech support already?  If not, please do!


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## Naki (Apr 23, 2019)

*@Jon8RFC -- *great! Thanks.  (I mean your *EDIT 2:* part.)

Likely you are not the only person with such problems in recent months.
Even if Steam/Valve is already aware of the issues, if more people post support tickets likelihood of sooner actions/possible fix is higher.


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## W1zzard (Apr 23, 2019)

Jon8RFC said:


> gpu-z 2.11.0 and older reliably locked up the old HD5870/q5550 machine which seems to (now, but not prior to March) run fine with versions newer than 2.11.0 at this point


this behavior is expected. for some reason vac decides to scan all mapped hardware memory, which causes the crash. i implemented a workaround which should have solved the problem, and works 100% in my testing.



Jon8RFC said:


> The test account works fine on the real Win10 drive and with everything hardware-related back to normal. There must be more aggressive heuristics set to scan on certain steam/VAC accounts, and it's bumping heads with GPU-Z


just to clarify, you tested on the same machine/installation with two steam accounts, one works fine the other does not?


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## Jon8RFC (Apr 23, 2019)

Naki said:


> *@Jon8RFC -- *great! Thanks.  (I mean your *EDIT 2:* part.)
> 
> Likely you are not the only person with such problems in recent months.
> Even if Steam/Valve is already aware of the issues, if more people post support tickets likelihood of sooner actions/possible fix is higher.


Well, they weren't able to assist, but they passed it along to the VAC team.  The email address the gave to me was the same one I used to send my initial email.



W1zzard said:


> just to clarify, you tested on the same machine/installation with two steam accounts, one works fine the other does not?


Correct.

I just booted up, ran gpu-z, logged in to the brand new test account and it's been fine for about 7 minutes; quit both applications, ran gpu-z again, ran steam and logged in to the test account again and it's fine after more than a minute.  Then, I quit both applications again, ran gpu-z again, ran steam again and logged in to my normal account, and it locked up after about 39 seconds from the point I saw the big, main steam window open.
After forcing the computer to power off, I booted up, ran gpu-z, ran steam and logged in to the test account and it's fine after more than 2 minutes.  At least it's narrowed down to something being triggered server-side to run locally by steam/VAC.

*EDIT:*
I associated the test account with my phone number by adding the test account's steam authenticator.  It hasn't locked up...yet.  Wondering if it might.

*EDIT2:*
Still no lock ups with the test account.
I've tested while concurrently running MSI Afterburner (I don't have an MSI card, but use it since it does what I need), RealTemp, CPU-Z, HWMonitor, Nvidia Inspector.  No lock ups, if that helps narrow anything down about which things are examined by GPU-Z, for future reference.
GPU Monitor gadget does not cause lock ups (also used this gadget app for it).


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## Xoxoe (May 19, 2019)

This is incredible. IN-CRE-DI-BLE! I was just about to format my PC and i found this topic literally before doing so!

I bought a new GPU 3 days ago and since then I'm having huge problems with my PC. Screenshot included (critical errors, errors and warnings, its in Polish)





30 instant crashes in 3 days of testing (no BSOD, every single is marked as KERNEL POWER 41(63), almost no details)- I lost my mind and started testing.

My whole PC became totally unstable, I spend 3 days checking everything (changed PSU, tested RAM, changed all slots, cleared everything, unplugged all SATA drives, cleared Windows, updated all drivers including BIOS, tested old and new gpu on HDMI, DisplayPort and DVI, changed power cables, tested new power source from other room, changed monitor, unplugged everything and plugged again, I believe I tested everything and i just wanted to make a final move- format my PC and if that doesn't help, just send my MOBO for warranty). Im literally losing my mind, but PC is like a temple to me.

And now I'm here and I understand... *I tested my new GPU with GPU-Z since start and I used Steam/CSGO for testing aswell, all the time!!* I passed all tests (OCCT, Cinebench, Heaven Benchmark 4.0, Furmark, even Furmark+OCCT at the same time) and tried to play GTA V once for an hour- zero problems and crashes.

This is incredible and almost unbelievable. Amazing coincidence, because:
1) I have minor problems with electricity at home and at the same day i installed new GPU one lighting bulb exploded in my room (bad installation I guess), and I got worried about PSU...
2) sometimes my monitor and shows the message "OUT OF RANGE", and according to many guides it's because 20pin displayport cable, which transfers voltage and can sabotage the entire computer with this voltage (come on, I already paid and ordered a new one!)
3) I had some BSOD's before and it was displaying the same error named KERNEL POWER 41, but they were random and very rare, like one per month... That's why I thought it's mayby this new GPU and it's power demand, but...
4) I plugged my old GPU again (gtx660 which works perfectly fine) and started testing- there was no diffrence, it was crashing all the time! Doesnt matter if its my new or old gpu, still crashing.

I lost my mind, but finally I'm here. It wasn't my PC. It wasn't me or even my electricity problems. It was just a faulty testing method- CS-GO, Steam and GPU_Z. If you need any informations let me know, I'll visit this topic. I just felt I need to register and tell you my story, it's very important to fix this problem and tell everyone to avoid this testing method, if anyone get's KERNEL POWER 41 error.

Thanks,
XO

PS. Sorry for weak english grammar. I didn't spend much time fixing this text, just wanted to write this asap!

PS2. IMPORTANT NOTE! I noticed that when I ran GPUZ first and then CS:GO and wanted to minimalize the game, there was no GPUZ running in the back. Simply application was down and I had to run it again, I was like wtf is happening and couldn't believe I forgot again, but it wasn't me.
One more important info- sometimes I could play a while with GPUZ running and this can be misleading, but I noticed that using maximum power in NVIDIA panel and changing WINDOWS power plan to maximum made crashes even more often. And last interesting fact- uncapping CS:GO fps (fps_max 999) made the game even more unstable.

PS3. Dunno if this matters but I have installed two csgo anticheats, one for Faceit and one for ESEA, and if I remember correctly Esea was very intrusive into OS and system boot.

PS4. VERY IMPORTANT! A couple of times after crash my graphic drivers went nuts- lost almost all resolution's and couldn't choose my refresh rate (I have 144hz monitor). I had to reinstall drivers or switch to the other DP port. However, I'm not 100% sure its only due to GPUZ crashing- mayby my displayport cable was involved in this.


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## Jon8RFC (Aug 8, 2019)

GPU-Z 2.23.0 changelog said:
			
		

> Fixed crashes caused by Valve Anticheat



Is the changelog in reference to this particular bullet-dodging bug?
If so, I am so incredibly curious to hear more about the cause and solution, and if Valve was helpful!

*EDIT:*
Yes, this seems to have resolved the issue, thanks for the fix!  I'm very curious to hear about it.


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## W1zzard (Aug 9, 2019)

Jon8RFC said:


> Is the changelog in reference to this particular bullet-dodging bug?
> If so, I am so incredibly curious to hear more about the cause and solution, and if Valve was helpful!
> 
> *EDIT:*
> Yes, this seems to have resolved the issue, thanks for the fix!  I'm very curious to hear about it.


Yeah that's what it fixes. Never heard from valve, simply worked around what their anti cheat does

Thanks for confirming


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