# Intel Haswell Overclocking Clubhouse.



## cadaveca (Jun 9, 2013)

Got a new Haswell chip? Need help overclocking? Got a few tips of your OWN?

This Clubhouse is for all things Haswell, from performance and overclocking, to boards and memory support. Feel free to post your results!






Here's one of mine(2666 MHz sticks running 2933 MHz @ 1.65V):







SOME CPUS CANNOT TAKE THE STRESSES OF OVERCLOCKING. DO NOT FORGET TO PROTECT YOUR INVESTMENT, AND GET YOUR INTEL PERFORMANCE TUNING PLAN WARRANTY WHICH *COVERS ANY DAMAGE TO YOUR CPU FROM ANY TYPE OF OVERCLOCKING* HERE AT INTEL'S SITE i7 4770K PLAN COSTS JUST $25 AND WILL GET YOU A SINGLE REPLACEMENT CHIP, NO QUESTIONS ASKED(some restrictions apply).


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## cadaveca (Jun 9, 2013)

IN PROGRESS:

CASES, COOLERS, POWER SUPPLIES, BOARDS,  MEMORY AND SSDs, IMPORTANT BUILD CONSIDERATIONS

Since Haswell is a new platform, there might be questions about compatibility issues some users might have. For the most part, the parts you choose aren't going to matter too much, especially when it comes to overclocking, but there are a couple of things to consider when choosing those last few parts you might not think about.


CASES

No issues known


COOLERS
When it comes time to overclock Haswell, cooler choice is very important. General clocking ability of Haswell chips is rather equal, but the voltage used and final clock before throttling is noticed can vary from chip to chip, with most results at 4.5 GHz (expected average clock) landing anywhere from 1.25V to 1.4V, roughly. The larger your cooler, the better off your are in case you get a "poor" chip. If you find a cooler insufficient to maintain modest overclocks(4.2 GHz and above), please report it here so we can make a list of coolers users might want to avoid.


POWER SUPPLIES

Although there was a bit of a kerfuffle prior to the launch about PSU compatibility with the Haswell platform, most popular power supplies on the market today should not have any issues, and each Power Supply Manufacturer has given some sort of press release about which of their power supplies are compatible, and which may have issues, if any. If you find you have any issues, please report them and your system configuration.


BOARDS

Not all motherboards have the same expansion capabilities. Some multi-GPU considerations must be made:

Dual GPU(Crossfire/SLI):


Tri-SLI Capable:


Quad-SLi Capable:


MEMORY

Voltage considerations for memory have been reduced for Haswell-based CPUs. Intel recommends 1.5 V "XMP"-rated DIMMS with 1.65 V as an absolute maximum. There are many DIMMs up to 2400 MHz or so rated at 1.5 V. Some CPUs may not handle even that. Maximum default supported memory speed for the platform is 1600 MHz, and yes, memory OCs can affect CPU overclocks! NO issues have been reported from running 1.65 V or higher at this time, but this must have been noted by board makers and Intel for some reason. I personally use 1.65V DIMMs.

SSDs
There are known compatibility issues with older SATA 3 Gb/s (SATA2) Sandforce-based SSDs, like the OCZ Vertex2, and some of the Corsair Force series. Intel's requirements for booting a drive are not met by these controllers and their firmware, so use of these drives might be problematic with some motherboards, if not all. ASUS has confirmed the issue, and it's not something that is limited to a specific vendor. If you want to use one of these drivbes, you'll have to either use a board with a secondary controller other than Intel that is known to work, or use a USB 3.0 dock(most are capable of maxing out any SSD with "USB 3.0 BOOST" tech enabled), when using these drives with Z87-based motherboards.


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## cadaveca (Jun 9, 2013)

IN PROGRESS:

CPU Quick OC/Binning 5-part guide.






Cooler mounting and orientation, it matters:


First Boot, what to do, and why:


Second boot. Yes, it matters too.


Finding the right CPU multis, the first OC boots:


General OC range results, what to look for


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## cadaveca (Jun 9, 2013)

Member Result Rankings

Help everyone else find out where their CPU ranking in the "Silicon Lottery". Results Rankings require CPU-Z screenshots of both CPU and memory pages. It's best to run a light application like SuperPi 32M to make sure CPU and Cache multis are running at their maximum soeeds for your screenshot. Please report CPU batch, clocks, the cooler used, the voltage you used for CPU, memory and, CPU cache, and anything else modified that might help others get the most out off their chips too. 

Please follow this format in order to have your results added to our list. Unstable "maximum" speed screenshots are just as great as fully-tested clocks, just be sure to note which type of OC your are posting. If some details are missed, that's fine, but screenshot using the proper version of CPU-Z is mandatory. CPU-Z reviewer kit with other CPUID softwares like Haswell-ready CPU-Z and other included can be found HERE:


Format:

user name|CPU/batch|Stock Volt:CPU/Cache|OC CPU Clock|OC CPU Voltage|OC Cache/Ring Multi|OC Cache/Ring Voltage|Memory Speed|cooling|notes


*Batch information can be found both on the chip itself, and on the box. Pictures of either are greatly appreciated! 



infos:|
*USER NAME*
|
*CPU/BATCH*
|
*Stock VOLT:CPU/Cache(Ring)*
|
*OC CPU CLOCK*
|
*OC CPU VOLT*
|
*OC CACHE/RING MULTI*
|
*OC CACHE/RING VOLT*
|
*MEM SPEED*
|
*COOLING*
|notes
1.|v12dock|4770K/L307B198|1.072 V/-|4500(45x100 MHz)|1.285 V|x39|1.150|1600 MHz|-|ASUS Z87 PRO/MicroCenter
2.|cadaveca|4770K/L309B318|1.040 V/1.015 V|4600(46x100 MHz)|1.280 V|x39|1.140 V|2800 MHz C11|CoolerMaster TPC812|boardtestchip
3.|cadaveca|4770K/L311B405|1.020 V/1.040 V|4625(37x125 MHz)|1.250 V|x36(4500 MHz)|1.150 V|3000 MHz C12|Corsair H90|ASUS Maximus VI Extreme/memtestchip
4.|15th Warlock|4770K/L311B411|1.000 V/1.024 V|4700(47x100 MHz)|1.280 V|x40|1.150 V|1866 MHz|Corsair H100|MSI Z87-GD65 GAMING/Newegg
5.|DOM|4770K/L311B411|1.053 V/1.053 V|5500(55x100 MHz)|1.725 V|x39|1.200 V|2400 MHz C9|Single-Stage Phase|MSI MPower MAX/Newegg
6.|PolRoger|
*4770K/L310B492*
|
*0.992 V/0.999 V*
|4500(45x100 MHz)|1.150 V|x43|1.150 V|2400 MHz C10|Corsair H110|ASUS Z87 Deluxe/Microcenter
7.|Womper|4770K/L312B318|1.008 V/-|4700(47x100 MHz)|1.350 V|x46|1.325V|2133 MHz C9|Swiftech H220|ASUS Z87-PLUS/Intel EPP.
8.|Allen337|4770K/-|-/-|4800(48x100 MHz)|-|-|-|1600 MHz C-|Corsair A50|ASUS Z87 PRO
9.|Justin7477|4770K/L312B326|-/-|4400(44x100 MHz)|1.220 V|x41|1.220 V|2133 MHz |CoolerMaster TPC812|Z87 Extreme6
10.|TheHunter|
*4770K/L308B202*
|
*0.967 V/0.977 V*
|4500(45x100 MHz)|1.170 V|x41|1.115 V|2133 MHz C9|Corsair H90|ASUS Z87 DELUXE
11.|springs113|4770K/L311B411|1.056 V/1.040 V|4400(44x100 MHz)|1.220V|x39|1.140 V|2000 MHz C-|Corsair H100|MSI MPower/Newegg
12.|FireKillerGR|4770K/L312B508|1.020 V/1.000 V|4700(47x100 MHz)|1.350 V|x41|-|-|-|-
13.|HammerON|4770K/L311B411|-/-|4400(44x100 MHz)|1.170 V|x39|1.000 V|2666 MHz C11|Custom Water|MSI Z87-GD65 GAMING/Newegg
14.|tom_milli|4670K/L314A994|0.986 V/1.050 V|4600(46x100 MHz)|1.200 V|-|-|-|-|MSI Z87-GD65 GAMING
15.|Kursah|4770K/L307B189|1.071 V/ 1.031 V|4200(42x100 MHz)|1.200 V|-|-|-|-|ASUS Z87-PRO
16.|Grnfinger|4770K/L312B341|1.024 V/1.021 V|4500(45x100 MHz)|1.25|45|1.021|1866|Corsair H100|Asus MVI Hero
17.|Crazyeyesreaper|4770k/L312B334|1.016 V/1.008 V|-|-|-|-|2133 MHz|-|MSI Z87-GD65 GAMING
18.|emissary42 | 4670K | 1.050 V | 4900(49x100 MHz) | 1.280 V | 45x | 1.100 V | DDR3-2667 CL10 | Thermalright Archon SB-E | MSI Z87I Gaming AC (Memory @ Stock, more or less^^)
19.|FYFI13|4790K|1.216/1.2|4998MHz(50x100)|1.45V|x40(4000MHz)|2133MHz|Corsair H60|Asus Z97M-Plus, no OC on RAM
20.|


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## v12dock (Jun 9, 2013)

I am currently running 4.3 stable with the Asus Z87 Pro with batch# L307B198. Picked up at Microcenter for $449.98


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## cadaveca (Jun 9, 2013)

Your screenshot shows 4.2 GHz. 

I'll start the result table once we get a few results. I think there are several criteria we might want to look at to compare between what we get, like ram used, voltage to CPU, voltage to cache, CPU multi, CPU cache multi, cooler used, etc.


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## v12dock (Jun 9, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Your screenshot shows 4.2 GHz.



Just for you


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## Delta6326 (Jun 9, 2013)

I like the layout, what about voltage when you first boot to bios? Also I posted a good video tutorial in the 4770k review thread. It may come in handy it explains how all the voltages work. From Newegg

Edit: here it is


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## cadaveca (Jun 9, 2013)

Delta6326 said:


> I like the layout, what about voltage when you first boot to bios? Also I posted a good video tutorial in the 4770k review thread. It may come in handy it explains how all the voltages work. From Newegg




I love JJ. Also awesome to see that he and I agree on things so far(haven't finished watching yet, about 40 minutes in).


Also, EXCELLENT point, added that in, forgot about that one, although it would have been in the binning/OC guide. I'll have my own version of a guide that might differ from what these guys suggest. 

Linus' version(I like him too):


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## Delta6326 (Jun 9, 2013)

Yeah I watched the whole video he knows his stuff. I've been out of the loop for a while so in a couple weeks I plan on slowing getting parts to do a new build. Haven't for the last 5 years hopefully I can pass my test then I can start making money right away. 

I am going to put togeather a excel sheet and add all this info from other sites and forums to check OC results. I haven't been this excited for awhile.

But for now goodnight.


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## Jstn7477 (Jun 9, 2013)

Can't wait to have another chip by late next week. Hopefully it will be a better one than my L311B404 was before I did an incredibly stupid thing to it. 

Once I get the new chip, I'll definitely be participating in this thread. I'll be using my ASRock Z87 Extreme6, my old 2011 G.Skill 2133 CL11 4GB sticks (two separate pairs) and a Cooler Master TPC-812 I just got. I also have a Tt Water 2.0 Performer but I think the base is a little convex unless I put the paste on badly last time. Thanks for the thread.


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## Delta6326 (Jun 9, 2013)

Ok here is what I've been working on, I hope this helps some people it's not the fullest, but it may help with some #'s

From multiple forums.

I will keep updating this post as I get more info.


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## v12dock (Jun 9, 2013)

Delta6326 said:


> I like the layout, what about voltage when you first boot to bios? Also I posted a good video tutorial in the 4770k review thread. It may come in handy it explains how all the voltages work.



First boot is 1.072 mem is 1600


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## cadaveca (Jun 9, 2013)

Interesting info, but there are so many holes there we don't know how these guys are clocking things, unfortunately.


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## Delta6326 (Jun 9, 2013)

Yeah sadly not many people give much info on most forums. will have to wait for more Official threads to come up.


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## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2013)

Delta6326 said:


> Yeah sadly not many people give much info on most forums. will have to wait for more Official threads to come up.



It's been a week only. With time more people will get them. Heck, I want more!


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## 15th Warlock (Jun 10, 2013)

15th Warlock | L311B411 | CPU 1.000V / Ring 1.024V | 4.7GHz | 1.280V | 40x | 1.150V | XMP1866MHz | CorsairH100 | ordered from Newegg

Thanks for starting this thread Dave!

I think I was lucky with my chip, this is my max stable OC at 4.7GHz and 1.28V, unfortunately CPU-Z won't report the right voltage for some reason:






This is a photo of my initial voltages on default BIOS settings:






Now the CPU is working at 4.5GHz @ 1.25V 24/7 100% stable, temps have not exceeded 70 degrees even at 4.7GHz, tried 4.8GHz at 1.30V but Win8 was booting to a BSOD so, I believe this is as far as I'll go 

...for now  

EDIT:

Just realized I didn't add a 1 to the ring voltage making it appear as 1.5V, such high voltage would've fried the cache! I think dave caught the error in his table, thanks for fixing it!


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## Delta6326 (Jun 10, 2013)

I've seen some L311 batch's getting good numbers also I've noticed if have a L3##B### the last 3 digits seem to be better if they are around 400-500, some nice results 15th Warlock

Also if someone has a chip and some time can they try my theory, of the heat is from frequency and not higher volts.
As someone did a test kept stock volts and tried Ocing and temps rocketed, then they kept same frequency and only bumped up the volts and they didn't get as much heat.

So try

Stock everything record temps
4GHz stock volt check temps or more if you can
stock frequency raise volts to 1.25 check temps or higher if you want

this is only a theory...


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## Jstn7477 (Jun 10, 2013)

Can someone clarify what the "Ring voltage" is and what it is labeled as on ASRock boards? Is that what the "cache voltage" is that I saw on my board and roughly equals the vcore?


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## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2013)

Jstn7477 said:


> Can someone clarify what the "Ring voltage" is and what it is labeled as on ASRock boards? Is that what the "cache voltage" is that I saw on my board and roughly equals the vcore?



Should be.

However, it doesn't need to equal vcore in all situations. Yet it's rather close at stock speeds with the chips I've seen or others have shown me so far.


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## v12dock (Jun 10, 2013)

I am now using a decent thermal paste shaved ~2c off full load on my noctua nh-d14


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## HammerON (Jun 10, 2013)

Should have my Haswell build done tonight. Took apart the 800D and cleaned everything. Will post info when the build is done


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## Jstn7477 (Jun 10, 2013)

Just ordered my chip and a KVM I need for work. Hopefully, I should be back in action on Thursday. Hope I get a good chip!


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## DOM (Jun 10, 2013)

This my max so far on ss yes vcore is real


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## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2013)

DOM said:


> This my max so far on ss yes vcore is real
> 
> http://img.hwbot.org/u6948/image_id_974217.png



ring voltage?

stock for for the CPU, ring?

bought from where?

Batch?


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## DOM (Jun 10, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> ring voltage?
> 
> stock for for the CPU, ring?
> 
> ...



Used volt setting from this thread at ocn 

http://www.overclock.net/t/1396921/msi-z87-thread-xpower-mpower-max-bios-screens-and-info 

 Got it from newegg 

L311B411


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## HammerON (Jun 10, 2013)

Wasn't able to get my system installed yet
Was able to get some pics though


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## PolRoger (Jun 10, 2013)

Batch# L310B492, ASUS Z87-Deluxe, Corsair H110, open air bench. CPU/Motherboard combo purchased from Micro Center (Westmont, IL).

Edit: Added stock/default BIOS voltage screen shot.

45x DDR3-2666 (Hynix CFR) ~13(+) hrs. Rosetta load (Ambient temp ~21C.):


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## PopcornMachine (Jun 10, 2013)

Not in the club, but it would be interesting to see the load temps of these overclocks.

Just wondering because of this article.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2013/06/06/haswell-heat/1


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## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2013)

PopcornMachine said:


> Not in the club, but it would be interesting to see the load temps of these overclocks.
> 
> Just wondering because of this article.
> 
> http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2013/06/06/haswell-heat/1



But wait folks...there's more!




<85C for me with both chips OC'd. Seems perfectly fine to me.


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## DOM (Jun 10, 2013)

stock vcore/ring in windows under load off read point on mb 

vcore 1.136v idle .760v 

ring load 1.103 idle .745v


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## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2013)

DOM said:


> stock vcore/ring in windows under load off read point on mb
> 
> vcore 1.136v idle .760v
> 
> ring load 1.103 idle .745v



I'm looking for BIOS reading on freshly cleared CMOS. UEFI places a certain load on the CPU that leads to certain VIDs given. I am very interested in tracking this specific metric, as what I've seen says it's quite important.


But I need more samples before I can draw any real conclusions. I'm just working on finishing this memory review I'm working on, and then I'll finish the OC guide while testing the next board for review, tonight and tomorrow. Too any reports of people having issues with OC, doesn't make much sense to me.



HammerON said:


> Wasn't able to get my system installed yet
> Was able to get some pics though
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130610/IMG_5698.jpg
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130610/IMG_5703.jpg
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130610/IMG_5725.jpg



I know you are in the thread, so I just wanna tell you you suck. I so wish I had those VGAs.

I tried to order some brackets to mount my H100 coolers to my GTX670's/7970s. Then I found a forum thread saying dude is like 2 months behind on orders, and isn't responding to emails and such. Dammit. In the meantime, I've been using the GTX650TI BOOST OC MSI cards in SLI, they work really well.


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## DOM (Jun 10, 2013)

bios reads vcore/ring 1.053v for both


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## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2013)

DOM said:


> bios reads vcore/ring 1.053v for both



hrmph...explains your clocks, maybe. that's on MpowerMAX? or did you pick up something else?

quite interested in air/water clocks you get with that chip too.

Notice many with high clocks get 0.9xx on vcore in BIOS(and that Shamino, JJ, Linus 4.8GHz+ are all below 1.0 V as well.) , but V-Ring, that's an interesting number, that one.


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## DOM (Jun 10, 2013)

yeah on the max

and the oc ring 1.2v


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## PolRoger (Jun 10, 2013)

I'm currently testing a 44x @2800C11 overclock with lower voltages trying to see how low I can go...  Current BIOS settings: vcore @1.2187v, ringbus @1.225v, CPU input @1.75v, DRAM @1.635v, CPU VSSA @auto, CPU Digitital I/O @auto, Analog I/O @auto. Stressing now with AIDA64...  

Edit: Added screen shots...


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## PopcornMachine (Jun 10, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> But wait folks...there's more!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess all those people are just crazy over there.

Sorry, I get a little snippy when someone is dismisive with me.

I think 85C is kind high actually, but I guess this thread just for pumping up the new platform and not for questioning anything.

Sorry for the interruption.  Have fun with your toasty chips.


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## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2013)

PopcornMachine said:


> I guess all those people are just crazy over there.
> 
> Sorry, I get a little snippy when someone is dismisive with me.
> 
> ...





To address the temperature thing, there are two key things that need to be mentioned that might be overlooked by many.

#1. These CPUs are designed to run near their throttle point. That is the whole reason that Turbo exists. Intel knows that enthusiasts will overclock with better coolers, and use higher voltages, and they don't care...they actually built in all these controls in BIOS so that we can control both clocks and heat in "K" chips. You set higher turbo multis...multis that are built to adjust to lower settings automatically if CPUS get too hot. And in case it truly worries you, you can buy a warranty that covers that. Intel even says "for those that need piece of mind"...in other words... you don't really need it, but here it is for those that push too far.


#2. Actually, my chips were given to me, but not by Intel. I don't care about anything other than presenting facts you guys can use, and that's all, and shilling for Intel isn't what this thread is about, thanks. In case you haven't noticed, I'm kind of bashing all other sites here, because they are presenting reviews with ES chips, that aren't like retail. Yes, there are differences, but I'm not that idiot that gave review sites ES chips for reviews in the first place. Pleas note all TPU reviews use retail chips, and we don't really present much concerns about temperature. If those with chips don't know how to present them to the end user properly so things like this aren't covered, that's not my fault. Perhaps Intel should stop giving those sites samples, since obviously it does them no good.


I just like to overclock. Memory, specifically. I do reviews to fund that hobby, and nothing else. In the end, it still costs me money to do these reviews, too, but since it's a hobby, I don't mind much. I've actually spent several hundreds of dollars in the past two weeks ensuring that these reviews I do get done. Part of overclocking is getting the best you can, no matter what. Heat? Schmeat. Aftermarket cooling says hello.


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## Womper (Jun 10, 2013)

Yo. I was looking for a good OC results thread, looks like this one's happening.

I see you already extracted my results from Hardforums. All of these voltage numbers are confusing- how are we reporting voltages? Are we talking about the manual voltage setting in the BIOS? Or the peak load voltage reported by CPU-Z or another tool?

Currently I'm running at 4.7GHz core (core offset +0.160v, Prime95 peak CPU-Z voltage = 1.392v), 4.5GHz cache (cache voltage "Auto"), 2133 DDR @ 1.5v CL9, Asus Z87-Plus. Definitely "Game Stable," but impossible to bench Prime95 due to heat throttling.


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## cadaveca (Jun 11, 2013)

Womper said:


> Yo. I was looking for a good OC results thread, looks like this one's happening.
> 
> I see you already extracted my results from Hardforums. All of these voltage numbers are confusing- how are we reporting voltages? Are we talking about the manual voltage setting in the BIOS? Or the peak load voltage reported by CPU-Z or another tool?
> 
> Currently I'm running at 4.7GHz core (core offset +0.160v, Prime95 peak CPU-Z voltage = 1.392v), 4.5GHz cache (cache voltage "Auto"), 2133 DDR @ 1.5v CL9, Asus Z87-Plus. Definitely "Game Stable," but impossible to bench Prime95 due to heat throttling.



for stock, so CPU "core" and "cache" voltage In this screenshot? That's after a CMOS clear. That's "STOCK".






for reporting OC , Superpi32m RUNNNING while taking the screenshot will give good info. P95 isn't that great, I now use wPrime for power testing, even(since I had figured this out myself prior to the launch). P95 causes a different VID to be enabled that other workloads, and then doesn't give the value we're looking for. Likewise idle in OS and idle in BIOS are different VIDs, so that's why we look for idle in BIOS specifically.


I'm pretty sure by compiling these specific numbers an obvious trend will emerge. What batches have good chips, and what stores have what batches, that's the real info too, but just because one cpu in a batch does well, doesn't mean that all of them will....or will it...? Hopefully we might answer that question.


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## Delta6326 (Jun 11, 2013)

I take it that's the Gryphon ^

Once I get to my company will update just a couple results wish I could get a lot more info from people.


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## 15th Warlock (Jun 11, 2013)

Delta6326 said:


> I've seen some L311 batch's getting good numbers also I've noticed if have a L3##B### the last 3 digits seem to be better if they are around 400-500, some nice results 15th Warlock
> 
> Also if someone has a chip and some time can they try my theory, of the heat is from frequency and not higher volts.
> As someone did a test kept stock volts and tried Ocing and temps rocketed, then they kept same frequency and only bumped up the volts and they didn't get as much heat.
> ...



That sounds like a good idea! Any suggestions for a program to use to test temps?



DOM said:


> This my max so far on ss yes vcore is real
> 
> http://img.hwbot.org/u6948/image_id_974217.png



Holy crap! That's one heluva OC! Did you use LN2? Crazy voltage too!


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## Delta6326 (Jun 11, 2013)

Could try prime95 on high.

He used single stage phase.


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## Womper (Jun 11, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> for stock, so CPU "core" and "cache" voltage In this screenshot? That's after a CMOS clear. That's "STOCK".



I flashed up to Z87-PLUS 1007 BIOS, which should load stock settings. Everything is on AUTO, DDR at 1333MHz. Unfortunately, neither the 0801 or 1007 BIOS shows my cache voltage. It's also not showing in the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility.

Batch#: L312B318
CPU Core Voltage: 1.008v
Cache voltage: Unavailable
System Agent Voltage 0.840v
CPU Input Voltage 1.792v
DRAM voltage 1.507v

Booted up, ran Super PI mod 1.5 XS. CPU-Z's reported core voltage and core speed fluctuates a lot, but I caught it at peak turbo and voltage.


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## cadaveca (Jun 11, 2013)

Womper said:


> I flashed up to Z87-PLUS 1007 BIOS, which should load stock settings. Everything is on AUTO, DDR at 1333MHz. Unfortunately, neither the 0801 or 1007 BIOS shows my cache voltage. It's also not showing in the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility.
> 
> Batch#: L312B318
> CPU Core Voltage: 1.008v
> ...



AI SUITE III might supply you with the missing information. FOR OC voltage, again, I'm concerned with Spi32m voltage, not P95, since that makes a higher-than-normal VID be used. Hence your 1.4 V load.

Also, that CPU-Z version shows cache voltage on some boards, not sure what it's doing on yours. Try AI SUITE III or AIDA64 for better voltage measurement readings.


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## hat (Jun 11, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> I'm currently testing a 44x @2800C11 overclock with lower voltages trying to see how low I can go...  Current BIOS settings: vcore @1.2187v, ringbus @1.225v, CPU input @1.75v, DRAM @1.635v, CPU VSSA @auto, CPU Digitital I/O @auto, Analog I/O @auto. Stressing now with AIDA64...
> 
> Edit: Added screen shots...



More like this please. Screenshots that show the clockspeed, voltage, and temps at idle and under stress. Please mention what cooler you were using at the time as well. 

(not directed straight to you PolRanger but everyone who posts results)


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## cadaveca (Jun 11, 2013)

hat said:


> and temps at idle and under stress.



My only issue is that there are far too many voltages possible to tweak that can affect temps that make just that info alone useless. VCCIN could be 1.8V, or 2.0V, or 2.4V...or higher, and that's gonna affect temps in a big way. That's why I'm suggesting check voltages at these specific intervals and completely ignoring temps. Oddballs that have issues clocking due to something silly in in BIOS creating heat should be obvious this way. take a look at JJ's YouTube video about ASUS Z87 BIOSes, and everything that the ROG boards offer to get an idea of why I feel this way.

CPU or Cache V with clocks does not tell the full story, and that's all anyone is really looking at.


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## Jstn7477 (Jun 11, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> My only issue is that there are far too many voltages possible to tweak that can affect temps that make just that info alone useless. VCCIN could be 1.8V, or 2.0V, or 2.4V...or higher, and that's gonna affect temps in a big way. That's why I'm suggesting check voltages at these specific intervals and completely ignoring temps. Oddballs that have issues clocking due to something silly in in BIOS creating heat should be obvious this way. take a look at JJ's YouTube video about ASUS Z87 BIOSes, and everything that the ROG boards offer to get an idea of why I feel this way.
> 
> CPU or Cache V with clocks does not tell the full story, and that's all anyone is really looking at.



Is VCCIN a big contributor to die temperatures? Logically, I thought it would be since voltage regulation involves heat dissipation, and I figured the higher the input voltage the harder the voltage regulation system would have to work, but when I tried 1.5v and 2.1v I noticed that the wattage of my chip decreased from 105w (1.5v VCCIN under load) to ~75w (2.1v VCCIN under load). I'm not sure if HWiNFO64 was reading something incorrectly, but it left me rather perplexed. I know that PWM based voltage regulation is a lot different than the linear voltage regulation I have studied in my current computer engineering courses, but still. Sorry if this is explained in the video you mentioned, as I haven't had time to watch any videos about the subject.


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## cadaveca (Jun 11, 2013)

Dude, yeah, you'd think it would be one of the larger factors, for sure, but since I don't really have any inside line with Intel to ask these questions and wasn't part of the launch media, I couldn't tell you what's really the story. As you can see by the diagram I posted way up above, there's apparently only VCCIN and DRAM-in for power supplied to the CPU, but looking at these ROG boards, there's a whole huge whack of things to set, and a lot of other boards don't have these options.

That's why I made this thread in the first place. I need to know more, and if I do, so does everyone else. So let's see what we can find out.

I think I got the CPU multi binning part down. Roughly going as I expected(I've talked to a couple of PC builders and what they got for chips, too). But we still have iGPU, VCCSA/AIO/DIO, VCCIN, and others to figure out yet. None of those videos talk about any of THAT, really. What I did hear was a bunch of "We'll do that for you".  As if that's good enough for me. 

plus this whole "set 1.2V, try 4.6 GHz" seems..well...like something I told W1zz to do before the launch with his chip, before any of this "info" was out. Really. That's exactly what I told W1zz to do. I had tested three chips. ASUS et al apparantly tested hundreds of chip, and they cannot contribute more than I did with just three chips? WTF....

Those overclock guides contain ZERO info, IMHO. Anyone here could have figured that out. I did...


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## Womper (Jun 11, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> AI SUITE III might supply you with the missing information. FOR OC voltage, again, I'm concerned with Spi32m voltage, not P95, since that makes a higher-than-normal VID be used. Hence your 1.4 V load.
> 
> Also, that CPU-Z version shows cache voltage on some boards, not sure what it's doing on yours. Try AI SUITE III or AIDA64 for better voltage measurement readings.



Prime95 pushes the load voltage up to 1.44v. But here's Spi32m, and again, it bounced around on the voltage and frequency just like at stock. It's not hitting throttling by a long shot, am I missing something?


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## cadaveca (Jun 11, 2013)

Womper said:


> Prime95 pushes the load voltage up to 1.44v. But here's Spi32m, and again, it bounced around on the voltage and frequency just like at stock. It's not hitting throttling by a long shot, am I missing something?
> 
> http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/4359/48ddr2133.png



Nope, but you're using an offset voltage instead of a consistent one. For initial testing, it's better to test with a set voltage, find stability, and then take that knowledge to apply the offset.


When the multi changes, the voltage changes, as each multi has it's own VID associated with it. As well, there are other conditions that can adjust that VID, so rather than dealing with that for testing, simply avoiding that is best.

That's why I didn't include your OC voltage in the chart. It really could be anything, and as you can see, as load changes, so does the voltage, so who's to say what you are really running?


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## Delta6326 (Jun 11, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Dude, yeah, you'd think it would be one of the larger factors, for sure, but since I don't really have any inside line with Intel to ask these questions and wasn't part of the launch media, I couldn't tell you what's really the story. As you can see by the diagram I posted way up above, there's apparently only VCCIN and DRAM-in for power supplied to the CPU, but looking at these ROG boards, there's a whole huge whack of things to set, and a lot of other boards don't have these options.
> 
> That's why I made this thread in the first place. I need to know more, and if I do, so does everyone else. So let's see what we can find out.
> 
> ...



That's what I don't understand they should know everything about how haswell works. Which either they do, but won't tell or they wasted a lot of time... If I had a 4770K and a board I would help you out, but that won't be for a long time unless you can tell me when the Maximus VI Gene will be out and for how much


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## cadaveca (Jun 11, 2013)

Delta6326 said:


> That's what I don't understand they should know everything about how haswell works. Which either they do, but won't tell or they wasted a lot of time... If I had a 4770K and a board I would help you out, but that won't be for a long time unless you can tell me when the Maximus VI Gene will be out and for how much



..Or simply..it's just too early.

I prefer to think it's just to early, so we have just as much a chance of compiling enough info to figure it out as they do. Maybe they need to crowd-source like we do.


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## Delta6326 (Jun 11, 2013)

It's never to early  I want to know everything now  

But yes you are probably very much correct, I'm just impatient.


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## DOM (Jun 11, 2013)

idk whats wrong but now im getting vcore 1.048v ring 0.976v not its just changed to 1.056v 0.984v when the ss put it under 0c 

any clue where I can get a beta bios seen 1.2B7 but cant find to dl it anywhere


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## cadaveca (Jun 11, 2013)

DOM said:


> idk whats wrong but now im getting vcore 1.048v ring 0.976v not its just changed to 1.056v 0.984v when the ss put it under 0c
> 
> any clue where I can get a beta bios seen 1.2B7 but cant find to dl it anywhere



I think the iVR changes it's behavior according to temps with some sort of throttling mechanism. I wonder then if how it changes might indicate how good a chip is for sub-zero.

I found Shamino's guide for M6E late last night. He's still working on it too, it seems.


CL3P0 on overclock.net says he gets the best results matching iVR to double the vCore. There is a mode for LN2 that can force vCore as high as iVR, and keep that and cache in sync, so it'd then kind of act like IVB I think. Balancing the load on the iVR seems pretty important, hadn't considered that really until reading Shamino's guide.


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## DOM (Jun 11, 2013)

What's iVR haha ring volt ?

Most I tryed was around 1.380v and was able to bench nb at 5GHz 

Not sure how high on the ring volt is safe so haven't pushed it more don't wanna kill it yet and leaving out of town today and won't be back till Fri Sat death in the family


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## Womper (Jun 11, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Nope, but you're using an offset voltage instead of a consistent one. For initial testing, it's better to test with a set voltage, find stability, and then take that knowledge to apply the offset.
> 
> 
> When the multi changes, the voltage changes, as each multi has it's own VID associated with it. As well, there are other conditions that can adjust that VID, so rather than dealing with that for testing, simply avoiding that is best.
> ...



I initially used manual settings, but since it still uses a higher voltage than what I set, it was just the same to use offsets.

Anyways, for what it's worth, here's 1.325v manual (BIOS and CPU-Z measure 1.344v). I could probably push that voltage lower, but it'll bluescreen under heavier loads even at 1.325v (which is why I'm questioning the utility of SuperPI results here). At the other end of the spectrum, there's P95, but that's not helpful either since no real program I know of can kick power up that high. Is Aida64 a better all-around choice? Load voltage is the most interesting to me, otherwise you have to say a) what your manual voltage settings was, b) what the BIOS measures the manual voltage as, and c) what your load voltage is. I'm not sure what a) and b) tell you that c) doesn't.

Also, I'll start manually setting my ring voltage to find out where it's at for 4.5GHz. Good thing I found the clubhouse here so I'm not shooting in the dark like before.


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## cadaveca (Jun 11, 2013)

DOM said:


> What's iVR haha ring volt ?
> 
> Most I tryed was around 1.380v and was able to bench nb at 5GHz
> 
> Not sure how high on the ring volt is safe so haven't pushed it more don't wanna kill it yet and leaving out of town today and won't be back till Fri Sat death in the family



iVR is the onboard voltage regulator, that splits the VCCin from board VRM into the different parts of the chip. It's right in the chip itself. I haven't investigated playing with that too much, but I've noticed a couple of times that when increasing volts on some boards VCCin automatically jumped up to 2.0 V from 1.8 V. Has to be useful to tweak that.



Womper said:


> I initially used manual settings, but since it still uses a higher voltage than what I set, it was just the same to use offsets.
> 
> Anyways, for what it's worth, here's 1.325v manual (BIOS and CPU-Z measure 1.344v). I could probably push that voltage lower, but it'll bluescreen under heavier loads even at 1.325v (which is why I'm questioning the utility of SuperPI results here). At the other end of the spectrum, there's P95, but that's not helpful either since no real program I know of can kick power up that high. Is Aida64 a better all-around choice? Load voltage is the most interesting to me, otherwise you have to say a) what your manual voltage settings was, b) what the BIOS measures the manual voltage as, and c) what your load voltage is. I'm not sure what a) and b) tell you that c) doesn't.
> 
> ...



I'll update your entry on the chart.

I know, Spi32m is hardly a worthy stability test. Reading provided clocking guides and watching videos form the guys that do them, it seems that p95 is a special case and other stress tests may not get that higher VID to enable. Using Spi32m ensures that this vid doesn't enable, from my testing. I'll be investigating that too as I work through testing these boards. I noticed the jump on P95 myself with the first few days of testing, and had already been using wPrime for testing performance a bit already, so swapping over to wPrime's more consistent workload made a lot of sense, and I actually shelved P95 from my testing routine. I had been testing boards before, with at least 24-hour runs of P95...and if it failed, then I'd start over. In the past 8 months or so, I've had about 30 new tests into my testing routine that overall allow me to get a better idea of true stability, faster, than what P95 offers me. If that's just because my PC usage changed or apps are different, or these new instruction sets playing a role...lol... overclocking can be pretty easy...or pretty hard. 


What cooling you got, and where'd you pick your chip up from?  

As to AIDA64 being a better choice, ASUS is promoting it a fair bit, so they obviously find good value in it. AIDA64 is one app I trust implicitly, the guys/gals over there are very good at keeping things up to date the best they can, and are really good at giving support to paid subscribers. I have used/trusted AIDA64 and other software Fiery has worked on for many many years now.


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## Womper (Jun 11, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> I'll update your entry on the chart.
> 
> I know, Spi32m is hardly a worthy stability test. Reading provided clocking guides and watching videos form the guys that do them, it seems that p95 is a special case and other stress tests may not get that higher VID to enable. Using Spi32m ensures that this vid doesn't enable, from my testing. I'll be investigating that too as I work through testing these boards. I noticed the jump on P95 myself with the first few days of testing, and had already been using wPrime for testing performance a bit already, so swapping over to wPrime's more consistent workload made a lot of sense, and I actually shelved P95 from my testing routine. I had been testing boards before, with at least 24-hour runs of P95...and if it failed, then I'd start over. In the past 8 months or so, I've had about 30 new tests into my testing routine that overall allow me to get a better idea of true stability, faster, than what P95 offers me. If that's just because my PC usage changed or apps are different, or these new instruction sets playing a role...lol... overclocking can be pretty easy...or pretty hard.
> 
> ...



I have a Zalman CNPS10x Quiet cooler, and I bought the chip through Intel's employee purchase program 8^)

Maybe I'll give Aida64 a shot. P95 isn't helpful for stability testing at the clock speeds I want to use due to the heat. Gaming at 4.8GHz is easy, with temps hitting only 64C. But it would be nice to run into bluescreens sooner than 1 hr.


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## cadaveca (Jun 11, 2013)

Womper said:


> I have a Zalman CNPS10x Quiet cooler, and I bought the chip through Intel's employee purchase program 8^)
> 
> Maybe I'll give Aida64 a shot. P95 isn't helpful for stability testing at the clock speeds I want to use due to the heat. Gaming at 4.8GHz is easy, with temps hitting only 64C. But it would be nice to run into bluescreens sooner than 1 hr.



Really?  that's kind of a poopy cooler, so you getting those clock is pretty nice, I think.

As to P95, I guess the problem in the end is that if it is making VID go higher than everything else, and everything else is actually getting a lower voltage, then truly P95 is useless.

So you test P95 @ 1.3V, but other apps are only getting 1.225V, and aren't stable, but P95 is. So, you set 1.3V, other apps are now stable, but P95 now gets 1.375V. So these guides recommend 1.25V max to make sure that you'll only give 1.325 V max...so maybe that should be the cap we aim for.


I think that other apps aren't fully using the chip like P95 does, or one of the new extensions changes how the iVR gives voltage. I think that's what I heard JJ say, I've gone over way too much info the last little bit.  

I'm working through my apps and clocking and playing with stuff to see what I get. Then I try the other chip. I could probably go through this faster if I had more chips.


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## allen337 (Jun 11, 2013)




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## Womper (Jun 11, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Really?  that's kind of a poopy cooler, so you getting those clock is pretty nice, I think.
> 
> As to P95, I guess the problem in the end is that if it is making VID go higher than everything else, and everything else is actually getting a lower voltage, then truly P95 is useless.
> 
> ...



You disrespectin' my cooler?! But seriously, I'll need to see temps in the 90's on a meaningful workload before I consider an h100i or something. For 4.8GHz, I've been using adaptive Vcore with 0.200 offset and 0.050v additional turbo, which allows plenty of voltage headroom for those P95'ish cases (which will ultimately throttle). A game load only requires 1.3v, so that works.

P95 loads up all CPU execution lanes using those AVX instructions, so you really hit peak instruction throughput. I think it's safe to say that most real programs do something besides fast fourier transforms.


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## v12dock (Jun 12, 2013)

I just realized  that my BIOS is from april now I am eager to update

WOOT! Able to achieve 4.5Ghz now

4.5Ghz @ 1.285V | OC Cache x39 @ 1.15V | 75c load on Noctua NH-D14


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## Womper (Jun 12, 2013)

For 45x cache, 1.25v is the ticket.

The Intel tool shows "Default" when I'm at default voltages rather than a value. So I don't know what my default cache voltage is yet.


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## cadaveca (Jun 12, 2013)

Womper said:


> For 45x cache, 1.25v is the ticket.
> 
> The Intel tool shows "Default" when I'm at default voltages rather than a value. So I don't know what my default cache voltage is yet.
> 
> http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2258/45core45cache126c125u.png



Temps are getting up there a bit. Did you track the increase?

What about the performance difference?


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## Womper (Jun 12, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Temps are getting up there a bit. Did you track the increase?
> 
> What about the performance difference?



Maybe I'll run P95 large FFT with 45x cache @ 1.25v and default cache ratio/voltage and compare temps.

More data:
45x cache @ 1.23v will reboot under load.
46x cache @ 1.30v will reboot under load.
46x cache @ 1.325v seems stable. I ran P95 blend with a single core at 46x, the other cores at 43x for a while without issues (didn't throttle). All cores at 46x works, but throttling occurs.
47x cache @ 1.350v and 1.375v both reboot under load. I'm giving up on 47x, that's just too much voltage.

Also, for fun I used the Intel tool to test 45x cores at 1.25v, 1.24v, 1.23v, 1.22v, and 1.21v core voltages. I ran P95 large-fft for 6 passes on each, and only 1.21v caused a reboot. I ran P95 blend on 1.23v, and it ran for 30 minutes or so but crashed as soon as I tried to come back from screen saver. I saw 98C as my max core temp just before it shut down. I still need 1.25v to 1.26v on the core to safely boot into windows, but it was still interesting.

Here's a a picture that includes the Intel tool. The Intel tool is just reporting the BIOS voltage settings.


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## TheHunter (Jun 12, 2013)

Just received mobo+cpu today., finally 


Hmm my cpu is a black sheep lol 

i haven't seen this batch before >>> L308B202<<<, 





hopefully it will OC ok without to much volts, I will see tomorrow when i'll put it together


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## Jstn7477 (Jun 13, 2013)

24 hours until my 4770K gets here and is installed.


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## Womper (Jun 13, 2013)

Womper said:


> Maybe I'll run P95 large FFT with 45x cache @ 1.25v and default cache ratio/voltage and compare temps.
> http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4884/48ddr21331344c125u.png



Temps showed no difference in P95 large FFT. Planetside 2 at 46x cache @ 1.325v was perfectly stable and stayed under 64C just like 45x cache @ 1.25v.

Meanwhile, simply dropping DDR from 2133 to 1600 will reduce max temps by a good 7-10C, and dropping core voltage sees immediate gains as well. Looks like the cache is either not a big heat producer, or tough to really stress.

Anyone have a good test that should benefit from cache speed?


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## HammerON (Jun 13, 2013)

This is at stock. Temps are a bit high for me
However I do like the low voltage


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## FireKillerGR (Jun 13, 2013)

Just got my new chip:
Batch # L312B508
Stock Voltage: 1.02V
Stock VRing/Cache Voltage: 1V
Stock V Input: 1.754V
4.5 GHz -> 1.22v
4.6 GHz -> 1.28v
4.7 GHz -> 1.30v boot need 1.35 for most benchmark. Didnt try more
5.0 GHz -> 1.45v under bad SS
5.1 GHz -> 1.50v under bad SS

Uncore -> I tried x41 without problems. Didnt need for more.


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## razaron (Jun 13, 2013)

Replacing the stock el cheapo die TIM with Coollaboratory Liquid Pro seems to drop temps by 20C, sometimes more. 
Unfortunately, chips that struggle with 4.5GHz with the stock TIM probably won't benefit much from the better temps, from what I've seen.


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## radrok (Jun 13, 2013)

FireKillerGR said:


> Just got my new chip:
> Batch # L312B508
> Stock Voltage: 1.02V
> Stock VRing/Cache Voltage: 1V
> ...



for bad SS you mean 200w load capable unit?


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## FireKillerGR (Jun 13, 2013)

Its a good ss, goes @-42~ C but need to refill it cause under load it goes @-10C :/


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## radrok (Jun 13, 2013)

I gotta see more results on Haswell, if it scales well with cold (single stage cold) I may pick up one for 24/7.


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## Jstn7477 (Jun 13, 2013)

My new chip arrived today, batch L312B326, and my system is ready for me to simply drop in the chip and bolt on the TPC-812. Purchased from Newegg on June 10 and it is of course going in my Z87 Extreme6 with roughly 2 year old 4x4GB DDR3-2133 Ripjaws-X sticks.


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## TheHunter (Jun 13, 2013)

Ok i've put all together 

This batch L308B202 is actually very good, default voltage in UEFI @ default speed 3.5ghz? was 0.967v on 2 cores and 0.92v on other 2, not bad ^^


But I think i have some issues with XMP profile, not sure though, when i selected XMP for 2133mhz and rebooted it then also OC'ed my cpu to 4.250mhz @ 1.20v and set blck to 125mhz lol 

I need to get use to all these bios settings and see what's what, but so far so good.



EDIT: I figured out XMP and it sticks, also command rate @ 1T works ok






But i think i used 39x multi and now its at 3900mhz all the time? also auto voltage climbed to 1.096v.

WMI looks nice too


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## Womper (Jun 13, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Ok i've put all together
> 
> This batch L308B202 is actually very good, default voltage in UEFI @ default speed 3.5ghz? was 0.967v on 2 cores and 0.92v on other 2, not bad ^^
> 
> ...



Is that Aida64 memory benchmark in the free version? I can compare some cache speeds with that.


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## springs113 (Jun 14, 2013)

CPU 4770 L311B411 fr newegg/mpower with some ddr3 2000 ballistix

Well I got mine to 4.4 with little effort but it wasn't stable after loading windows.  I was hovering around mid to high 40 degrees c 
CPU-Z kept reading my voltages wrong though because in the bios I set it to 1.22(cpu) and it was fine.

Also at stock MSI already oc'd the processor, the multi is already set 39 and while stock I was around 35-40 idle and as high as 45 load...using the h100.  With stock cooler I was idling around high 40s and load in the mid to high 50s.


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## Jstn7477 (Jun 14, 2013)

Ugh, got the CPU installed, had to fight with my memory to get it to work without debug code 53, and now none of my USB ports work in Windows for some reason. The only thing I can use at the moment is a PS/2 keyboard to even do anything on it right now...

EDIT: USB fixed, turns out it was some old Z77 USB root hub driver that screwed it over. Used extensive keyboarding to get into Device Manager and update it off the support CD. The board however still hates my June 2011 pair of 4GB G.Skills and only works properly with the Jan 2012 set which coincidentally has XMP 1.3 vs. the XMP 1.2 of the other sticks (no, I wasn't using XMP). The sticks worked fine with my 2600K and 3770K so I have no idea what the big fuss is.


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## Womper (Jun 14, 2013)

Manual 1.41v is the minimum required to boot @ 50x core, 46x cache @ 1.325v, DDR 2133. SuperPI looped 11 times before freezing (good thing I saved a screenshot just after starting).

Now would be a good time to ask- how much voltage can Ivy Bridge take on a consistent basis? My usage model will be speed step with adaptive voltage, as opposed to 24/7 manual voltage override.


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## cadaveca (Jun 14, 2013)

Intel says(I personally dunno how real this is, I've just been gathering info the past several weeks and am working on conglomerating it all into one "easily digestible" meal. ):









At the same time, whitepaper says 153 W max. I'd aim for that, but I think that about 125W is more realistic for 24/7 use.


If you buy "Tuning Plan" warranty, I'd say those voltages listed above are OK, but do keep in mind that's maximums, and not all chips can take the maximums. Most should, but Intel offers that Tuning Plan for a reason...since most chips used by most users will never see voltages as high as are listed above. Set 2.0 V to vCore on air, I'm sure you won't have a pleasant experience.


Still working on the OC guide, as well as review right now, will update the member ranking in a bit here.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 14, 2013)

Jstn7477 said:


> Ugh, got the CPU installed, had to fight with my memory to get it to work without debug code 53, and now none of my USB ports work in Windows for some reason. The only thing I can use at the moment is a PS/2 keyboard to even do anything on it right now...
> 
> EDIT: USB fixed, turns out it was some old Z77 USB root hub driver that screwed it over. Used extensive keyboarding to get into Device Manager and update it off the support CD. The board however still hates my June 2011 pair of 4GB G.Skills and only works properly with the Jan 2012 set which coincidentally has XMP 1.3 vs. the XMP 1.2 of the other sticks (no, I wasn't using XMP). The sticks worked fine with my 2600K and 3770K so I have no idea what the big fuss is.



Why didn't you formatting your system and reinstall clean windows when you switched boards?


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## Jstn7477 (Jun 14, 2013)

44x/41x @ 1.22v for both vcore and cache seems to be completely stable for me, but under the workload I do 24/7 (World Community Grid), the CPU hovers at 100c which is a LOT worse than my IVB chips by like 15-30c. I seriously don't know what I'm doing wrong to deserve these temperatures. Gaming is completely fine in the 70c range, but as soon as my distributed computing fires up, the temperature shoots up to mid-90s within 5 seconds on my TPC-812.  

Can I continue running my chip like this or will it fail very soon? I just can't get this temperature under control with something I do nearly 24/7 that loads down the CPU like IntelBurnTest. 



MxPhenom 216 said:


> Why didn't you formatting your system and reinstall clean windows when you switched boards?



As much as I would love to do that, my Win7 install is only about 5 months old and honestly it works fine after the drivers got updated. I saw a 14% FPS increase over my 3770K at the same clock in a timedemo I ran this morningin Team Fortress 2. You have no idea how happy I was about that. 

Temps:


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## TheHunter (Jun 14, 2013)

Womper said:


> Is that Aida64 memory benchmark in the free version? I can compare some cache speeds with that.



Its a full version







Ok managed to downclock my cpu, it was high performance power plan fault (balanced fixed it).. Go figure lol, my old Q9450 downclocked no matter what power plan.


----------



## Womper (Jun 14, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Why didn't you formatting your system and reinstall clean windows when you switched boards?



Sysprep, brah. I'm far too lazy to reinstall all my programs and/or deal with blue screens due to swapping the motherboard and stuff. Sysprep is a built-in windows tool to generalize all of your drivers and stuff before migrating to a new machine. You have to reactivate Windows still.



Jstn7477 said:


> 44x/41x @ 1.22v for both vcore and cache seems to be completely stable for me, but under the workload I do 24/7 (World Community Grid), the CPU hovers at 100c which is a LOT worse than my IVB chips by like 15-30c. I seriously don't know what I'm doing wrong to deserve these temperatures. Gaming is completely fine in the 70c range, but as soon as my distributed computing fires up, the temperature shoots up to mid-90s within 5 seconds on my TPC-812.
> 
> Can I continue running my chip like this or will it fail very soon? I just can't get this temperature under control with something I do nearly 24/7 that loads down the CPU like IntelBurnTest.
> 
> ...



I'd keep temps below 90 under long-term loads like WCG. For me, I just want to run games, but otherwise my CPU will sit in idle state for web browsing and email, so I only care about game temps (which, awesomely enough, are super low).


I was going to make a TF2 demo myself and benchmark overclock speeds. I wish I had done it on my i7-930 before upgrading, but all I know is that TF2 got noticeably slow with the 930. Since the 4770k, I haven't even caught a glimpse of anything under 90fps. Mostly around 120fps (I bought that 120hz monitor for a reason) during the heaviest action, otherwise it's at the 299fps cap.

Planetside 2 can still tank under large battles, down into the low 40's even though I'm at 47x core 46x cache. Of course, my 930 would go into the 20's in these situations, so it's still probably a 1.5x speedup. Sony needs to spend some time optimizing their game engine, since I'm only hitting 65C on my hottest core even at 48x.


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## Womper (Jun 14, 2013)

Jstn7477 said:


> 44x/41x @ 1.22v for both vcore and cache seems to be completely stable for me, but under the workload I do 24/7 (World Community Grid), the CPU hovers at 100c which is a LOT worse than my IVB chips by like 15-30c.



Forgot to say, those temps are normal. The only tricks left are to reduce DDR speed to 1600 (2133->1600 saves me 10C under max load), or get better cooling/delid.

I might go get a h100i tomorrow myself to help me play around at dangerous voltages.


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## sneekypeet (Jun 14, 2013)

There is an EDIT button so that you don't have to double quote and double post


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 14, 2013)

Womper said:


> Forgot to say, those temps are normal. The only tricks left are to reduce DDR speed to 1600 (2133->1600 saves me 10C under max load), or get better cooling/delid.
> 
> I might go get a h100i tomorrow myself to help me play around at dangerous voltages.



Don't bother. Go custom water(meh as well), or wait for some new blocks to come out. I noticed that die for Haswell is offset from center, and due to this, most AIO water-coolers under-perform. The older H70 is best, since it feeds water from one end to the next. I think many coolers may get slight updates to deal better with Haswell. I'm looking at waterblocks as well, EK Supremacy with de-lidded chip and EK delid-mount is going to work best.

I think THIS is part of why Haswell seems "hotter" than IVB for some. At the same time, given the power consumption numbers I'm seeing, TDP increase was not enough.


----------



## radrok (Jun 14, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Don't bother. Go custom water(meh as well), or wait for some new blocks to come out. I noticed that die for Haswell is offset from center, and due to this, most AIO water-coolers under-perform. The older H70 is best, since it feeds water from one end to the next. I think many coolers may get slight updates to deal better with Haswell. I'm looking at waterblocks as well, EK Supremacy with de-lidded chip and EK delid-mount is going to work best.
> 
> I think THIS is part of why Haswell seems "hotter" than IVB for some. At the same time, given the power consumption numbers I'm seeing, TDP increase was not enough.



I fully agree.

I think that we all agree that Haswell problem is not "raw" heatload but it is more how to effectively channel that heat onto a cooling system.

Maybe Haswell really needs a fluxless solder IHS.


For all I can see to get good clocks out of this platform we need to step into SS territory.


----------



## Jstn7477 (Jun 14, 2013)

Womper said:


> Forgot to say, those temps are normal. The only tricks left are to reduce DDR speed to 1600 (2133->1600 saves me 10C under max load), or get better cooling/delid.
> 
> I might go get a h100i tomorrow myself to help me play around at dangerous voltages.



Wow, the memory speed makes that much of a temperature difference? Is there any "real" performance degradation as a result of lowering the memory speed in games and in general? Would my 2x8GB G.Skill Sniper 1866 CL9 sticks be better for this system than 4x4 DDR3-2133 CL11 sticks?


----------



## Womper (Jun 14, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Don't bother. Go custom water(meh as well), or wait for some new blocks to come out. I noticed that die for Haswell is offset from center, and due to this, most AIO water-coolers under-perform. The older H70 is best, since it feeds water from one end to the next. I think many coolers may get slight updates to deal better with Haswell. I'm looking at waterblocks as well, EK Supremacy with de-lidded chip and EK delid-mount is going to work best.
> 
> I think THIS is part of why Haswell seems "hotter" than IVB for some. At the same time, given the power consumption numbers I'm seeing, TDP increase was not enough.



From some quick research, I wasn't seeing much temp difference between an h100 and custom water for 3770k overclocks. Custom water costs what, like $250 to put together? I'd rather save the $ for now and see if 14nm acts right. The h100i should fit perfectly in my case (and free up a DDR slot), and keep things 10-15C cooler than what I currently have, maybe better. I'm lazy, and any kinda of water cooling system sounds like an inherently poor choice for electronics so I'm even worried about the h100i. At this point, I'm questioning what the h100i would truly get me for my usage- if I'm under 80C at 4.8-5.0GHz during gaming, then it's probably not worth it.

As for Haswell temps...gonna blame the FIVR and memory controller changes.



Jstn7477 said:


> Wow, the memory speed makes that much of a temperature difference? Is there any "real" performance degradation as a result of lowering the memory speed in games and in general? Would my 2x8GB G.Skill Sniper 1866 CL9 sticks be better for this system than 4x4 DDR3-2133 CL11 sticks?



Yeah, big temperature difference. I haven't tested whether CL affects temps. I bought my memory before Haswell reviews were released... Corsair Dominator Platinum 2133 1.5v CL9. Doh! If I had known, I would've found some 1.5v DDR 1600 at the lowest possible latencies. Or maybe some 1866 and drop it to 1600 with lowered latencies. The Dominator Platinum does look pretty sweet though.

Performance wise, 2133 versus 1600 gets you a very small gain, pretty much single-digit FPS gains. 1333 is below some sort of threshold, and you see a disproportionately large drop in synthetics and games. Intel puts these nice 8MB caches on their chips to hide the limited bandwidth to DDR. In fact, I would expect that overclocking your cache will have the same effect as using faster DDR.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 14, 2013)

Womper said:


> As for Haswell temps...gonna blame the FIVR and memory controller changes.



That's part of it too, for sure.


To help combat this, default Intel CPU behavior has NB/RING/CACHE/whateveritiscalled adjusting frequency according to workload, and some users are setting it to match or sit just under max CPU multi, 24/7.

To me, hat seems a bit misguided. Minimum should match Intel's minimum, just like CPU multi, and max only should be adjusted, for 24/7 use. At least, I think this might help with temps...something to look into, anyway.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 14, 2013)

My OC atm 4.4Ghz @ 1.15v, Cache ring 42x @ 1.21V(auto set) and rest at auto, temps in Aida64 stress test 60-70C @ H90 and lowered pump/fan speed ~ 1200rpm. In any cpu bound game never exceeds 55C, usually up to 50C. 





But it failed at 4.5ghz @ 1.15v, got a bsod in Aida64 stress test, backed down to 4.4ghz and all is good. 

And from what i saw @ OC'ed 570GTX its not worth 4.4ghz+, im gpu bottlenecked now.. Actually even stock cpu speed I get gpu bottleneck quickly., while before with Q9450@3.6ghz I got big cpu bottlenecks in something like Bf3, Natural Selection2, Hitman Absolution, Serious Sam3, Ghostbusters the game,..


Btw what's with this offset cpu voltage, how can i set it so my cpu voltage down clocks? Well now its at 1.15v no matter 800mhz or 4.4ghz. Any tips?


----------



## PolRoger (Jun 14, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> That's part of it too, for sure.
> 
> 
> To help combat this, default Intel CPU behavior has NB/RING/CACHE/whateveritiscalled adjusting frequency according to workload, and some users are setting it to match or sit just under max CPU multi, 24/7.
> ...



I've been matching the min/max (i.e. 40/40 or 43/43) cpu cache multi so far while testing overclocks. What is Intel's minimum? and if you run them at different speeds does BIOS dictate the cache multi according programmed rules?


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## cadaveca (Jun 14, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> I've been matching the min/max (i.e. 40/40 or 43/43) cpu cache multi so far while testing overclocks. What is Intel's minimum? and if you run them at different speeds does BIOS dictate the cache multi according programmed rules?



I am not sure, haven't had time to investigate, was just a thought. It seems that it's recommended to use Turbo to OC anyway, so...it kinda makes sense???


But who knows if it actually even works...they have those options adjustable just like CPU multi for a reason, I suppose. 


I understand, that for benchmarks, you'd want to keep it at the max, but I think that if it can manage itself effectively(and it should), then it might help keep the temps in check. To me, this is Intel's first full customizable chip, so there could be many things overlooked when it comes time to OC.


----------



## PolRoger (Jun 14, 2013)

4.5Ghz DDR3-2400 full bank (4x4gb) with SA and CPU A/D IO all on auto. (Corsair H110):


----------



## Jstn7477 (Jun 15, 2013)

After some more testing tonight, I think my target frequency is going to be 43x/43x at >= 1.17v. 44x core regardless of the uncore frequency takes about 1.22v which makes my CPU temps increase by 10c to hit 100c regularly in my screenshot from earlier. At 4.3GHz/1.17v currently, my highest core temperature with distributed computing load is 89c. IMO, this particular chip seems to be responding like my main 3770K did, even down to the voltages. Changing DRAM speed had no effect on my temperatures so I'm still running full banks of 4GB sticks at 2133 CL11. My main priority now is probably going to be voltage tuning to find the threshold of my chip at 43x/43x so it runs as cool as possible.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 15, 2013)

@cadaveca

Can i ask you something about cpu sys agent offset voltage, 

how can i set it so my cpu voltage down clocks? Well now its at 1.15v no matter 800mhz or 4.4ghz. Any tips?


----------



## Jstn7477 (Jun 15, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> @cadaveca
> 
> Can i ask you something about cpu sys agent offset voltage,
> 
> how can i set it so my cpu voltage down clocks? Well now its at 1.15v no matter 800mhz or 4.4ghz. Any tips?



Are you using fixed or offset voltages for your vcore/ring? Also, what program are you using to monitor your voltages (or is it your motherboard manufacturer's overclocking program)? My UEFI doesn't display any voltages besides VCCIN and the power supply voltages which is sad.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 15, 2013)

I OC'ed in UEFI, cpu voltage is fixed, ring voltage is set to auto. By both offset to auto and both had +, I changed cpu offset to - but left at auto and its still the same.

I tried Aida64 3.0, Coretemp, HWmonitor and all 3 showed the same. Also Asus UEFI reports the correct voltage.. 
Only cpu-z went all crazy and doesnt report the corect anymore (now its all over the place from 0.125v -0.250v - 0.9v).  It showed ok at stock speed and at auto cpu voltage  >> for example default 0.97v and then 0.7v at 800mhz.


----------



## HammerON (Jun 15, 2013)

CPU voltage is set at 1.18...

My batch # is L311B411


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 15, 2013)

Ok my bad looks like Cpu-z does detect proper down clocking voltage, when i said its all over the place. So I guess this must be it then, it can go as low as 0.016v (but only for a mili second)

Usually its at 0.144or 0.288v


 


Edit:  I had default cpu multi, now i changed back so all is ok. I even lowered ram timings a bit







I'll keep 4.4ghz for now, its more then enough atm ^^


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
___________________________________________________________________________
Few tests compared to my old Q9450@3.6ghz


Hardreset (before avg 82fps, min 32fps), Sleeping Dogs (before avg ~80fps or so), 



 

 


Re5 Fixed benchmark before 97fps, now 151.6fps



X3TC, its the ultimate single threaded bottleneck, especially 1st part - trade.

Before:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Scene "Trade"	 43.2 average fps	 16.0 minimum fps	 97.0 maximum fps
  Scene "Fight"	 97.3 average fps	 36.0 minimum fps	 227.0 maximum fps
  Scene "Build"	 129.6 average fps	 74.0 minimum fps	 250.0 maximum fps
  Scene "Think"	 57.4 average fps	 31.0 minimum fps	 110.0 maximum fps

Overall average framerate: 81.9 fps
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Scene "Trade"	 88.8 average fps	 38.0 minimum fps	 207.0 maximum fps
  Scene "Fight"	 192.5 average fps	 72.0 minimum fps	 412.0 maximum fps
  Scene "Build"	 242.8 average fps	 156.0 minimum fps	 340.0 maximum fps
  Scene "Think"	 109.3 average fps	 63.0 minimum fps	 224.0 maximum fps

Overall average framerate: 158.3 fps


HitmanAbsolution - ultra level detail, I had lower reso to 720P to see cpu bottleneck


 

Before any resolution avg ~ 45fps, even at medium or low level detail.


Cinebench 11.5

gpu score was 52 or 56 fps, now 91fps






and 3dmark11 @ 900mhz gpu OC


----------



## HammerON (Jun 15, 2013)

Letting it crunch overnight to check stability and all looks good. Looks like DOM, 15th Warlock and I all have the same batch.
Temps look alright for now (EK Supremacy WB, EK 360 Cool Stream Rad and Swiftech MCP655). Will play more with it later. I am still trying to figure all this out as the last rig I over clocked was my 1366 rig


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 16, 2013)

Getting everything assembled to start memory testing build(many thanks to ASUS, TPU, Crucial and G.Skill. Corsair stuff I bought, except memory which is old sample kit. ):

Got the case yesterday, went to pick up non-windowed 300R, guy gave me windowed version and I didn't realize until after I had already left the store. Should be fun sound-dampening a window.


----------



## Womper (Jun 16, 2013)

I bought a Corsair h100i from Fry's, trying to decide whether to try it or not. I've had a hell of a time trying to quantify how much it will improve temps versus the cnps10x.

I decided that custom water is not for me, so maybe this is the best option?


----------



## radrok (Jun 16, 2013)

To be honest if you don't want custom water then I'm pretty sure that the Swiftech H220 (which mind me it's still a form of custom water) is the best cooler you can get your hands on.

Also Dave I look forward to your testing to see if the Maximus VI yields higher clocks with same voltage compared to other motheboards.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 16, 2013)

Womper said:


> I bought a Corsair h100i from Fry's, trying to decide whether to try it or not. I've had a hell of a time trying to quantify how much it will improve temps versus the cnps10x.
> 
> I decided that custom water is not for me, so maybe this is the best option?



H110 would have been better, well that's if you have the space to mount it. I've seen quite a few users with H100i pump issues and what not..


----------



## HammerON (Jun 16, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Getting everything assembled to start memory testing build(many thanks to ASUS, TPU, Crucial and G.Skill. Corsair stuff I bought, except memory which is old sample kit. ):
> 
> Got the case yesterday, went to pick up non-windowed 300R, guy gave me windowed version and I didn't realize until after I had already left the store. Should be fun sound-dampening a window.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130615/memtestbuild_00.jpg





radrok said:


> To be honest if you don't want custom water then I'm pretty sure that the Swiftech H220 (which mind me it's still a form of custom water) is the best cooler you can get your hands on.
> 
> Also Dave I look forward to your testing to see if the Maximus VI yields higher clocks with same voltage compared to other motheboards.



I can't wait to see how that Maximus VI does as well
Should be a sweet rig!!! Why did you stick with the 7970 instead of a GTX 780 or Titan???


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 16, 2013)

HammerON said:


> Why did you stick with the 7970 instead of a GTX 780 or Titan???



I couldn't afford to even buy the case? W1zz helped out there, thankfully. HD7970 was free. I got GTX670's and GTX 650Ti's to test with from MSI. Outside of free VGAs, I'll not be buying any video cards any time in the foreseeable future. It's 2:30 am, I'm working on reviews; need to get paid.

I might get some nice hardware to play with every so often, but I don't have a job other than going to school and taking care of my kids, so money is tight. Out of about 20 boards I got for Haswell as samples, 16 I had to pay customs for at the door, at about an average of $15 a piece. At $250, just to get samples in my house, I really cannot afford high-end VGAs. Honestly, I got about another $3500 in school fees to pay by September, too. But don't get me wrong, I'm not struggling to pay bills or nothing, but with having 4 kids, having to pay for their school, and their sports and such, my school, extras aren't something that come by me often. Shipping fees, buying things like cases and coolers and thermal paste when needed all comes out of what I make doing reviews. Honestly, I dunno why I even do reviews.

I spend all this time doing reviews for hardware makers...you think they'd slide me a nice VGA like that every so often, but that rarely happens. Even the HD7970 pictured above wasn't given to me by ASUS directly, it was given to my by Kinc as he was upgrading and I was having issues with my own cards.



Anyway, maybe tomorrow I'll get the Maximus VI Extreme fired up. I'm actually pretty excited by this one, let me tell you. I hope it lives up to my expectations. 



Womper said:


> I bought a Corsair h100i from Fry's, trying to decide whether to try it or not. I've had a hell of a time trying to quantify how much it will improve temps versus the cnps10x.
> 
> I decided that custom water is not for me, so maybe this is the best option?



If ya got it, might as well use it. If you don't get better temps, you should at least get lower noise...? Oh...wait...I have multiple H100's...and they aren't quiet by any means for me.  

It should give you better temps though, maybe 6c to 10c at most I'd suspect however. Like I said earlier, your cooler is kinda poopy...not utter rubbish! 



radrok said:


> Also Dave I look forward to your testing to see if the Maximus VI yields higher clocks with same voltage compared to other motheboards.



Impossibru!!!

No, really. Science says it ain't gonna happen. This isn't Hogwart's, and I'm not in Kansas, no magic will be found without an obvious explanation.


----------



## Womper (Jun 16, 2013)

Thanks for your feedback, all!



radrok said:


> To be honest if you don't want custom water then I'm pretty sure that the Swiftech H220 (which mind me it's still a form of custom water) is the best cooler you can get your hands on.



Yes, after finding some reviews on the H220, it seems to be equal or better than the h100i, but with less noise. It's about $30 more, probably still the better choice.



TheHunter said:


> H110 would have been better, well that's if you have the space to mount it. I've seen quite a few users with H100i pump issues and what not..



Yeah, the h110 is too large. Bummer. I also read that the swiftech h220 had a noisy pump/pump issues.



cadaveca said:


> If ya got it, might as well use it. If you don't get better temps, you should at least get lower noise...? Oh...wait...I have multiple H100's...and they aren't quiet by any means for me.
> 
> It should give you better temps though, maybe 6c to 10c at most I'd suspect however. Like I said earlier, your cooler is kinda poopy...not utter rubbish!



I don't think 6c to 10c will get me any farther. I'll see what temps I get on Aida and compare to results in this thread, and see if 3dmark acts any differently than my games in temps. Otherwise it sounds like if I want to be at 4.8ghz for gaming, it won't matter. And if I unknowingly run an app that stresses the CPU a lot, an AIO cooler won't keep me from throttling anyways.


----------



## springs113 (Jun 16, 2013)

I reverted to stock(clear cmos and my 4770k/mpower cpuz reports 4.0 and msi ixtu reports 4.1) and stress testing with a h100 highest temp seen is 52 degrees.  I am going to oc by 200mhz each time to see where I am fully stable on stock voltages.  My first h100 crapped out so corsair sent out an h100i which should be here tues.  I bought a refurb h100 off the egg for 54 and it is working flawlessly but might give that swiftech a go.


----------



## springs113 (Jun 16, 2013)

I got it stable finally @ 4.4.  I thought I had a dud of a cpu that wouldn't clock for ish but I think I finally got it and the stress testing is reporting nothing higher than 72 deg which I absolutely love.


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## cadaveca (Jun 16, 2013)

springs113 said:


> I got it stable finally @ 4.4.  I thought I had a dud of a cpu that wouldn't clock for ish but I think I finally got it and the stress testing is reporting nothing higher than 72 deg which I absolutely love.



Any thoughts on what might have changed to make it easier for you?

Also, I am missing some details in the OC ranking for your build...if you could find the time to provide the missing info, that would be awesome!


----------



## PopcornMachine (Jun 16, 2013)

HammerON said:


> Letting it crunch overnight to check stability and all looks good. Looks like DOM, 15th Warlock and I all have the same batch.
> Temps look alright for now (EK Supremacy WB, EK 360 Cool Stream Rad and Swiftech MCP655). Will play more with it later. I am still trying to figure all this out as the last rig I over clocked was my 1366 rig
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130615/Capture030400.jpg



Thanks for the detailed results.  Encouraged by your temps, as it does seem custom water is needed O/C'ng for these chips.

That's ok with me, as I now enjoy water cooling.  Just have to have the extra cash on hand.


----------



## radrok (Jun 16, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Impossibru!!!
> 
> No, really. Science says it ain't gonna happen. This isn't Hogwart's, and I'm not in Kansas, no magic will be found without an obvious explanation.



Yeah I agree

motherboards will probably only affect memory clocking due to topology which is still a small part of it cause the IMC is integrated so you'll be limited by CPU mostly.

I think we won't see clocking difference anymore between platforms, the integrated voltage controller has something to do with it.

I'm convinced that the GD65-Gaming is one the best buy atm, I mean after that is only boards add-ons like PLX chips or LSI or whatever rather than anything else.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 16, 2013)

radrok said:


> Yeah I agree
> 
> motherboards will probably only affect memory clocking due to topology which is still a small part of it cause the IMC is integrated so you'll be limited by CPU mostly.
> 
> ...



ASUS said it themselves, CPU OC should be the same across all their products, just the cooling needed with "lesser" boards will be more than with high-end products.

Differences in memory clocking relate to board design, for sure, but also, BIOS plays a big role too. BIOS can affect CPU overclock too, potentially, in a way that affects performance, so I think we might see some tuned BIOSes that focus on frequency first, and performance last, while most users will want moderate-clocking with the best performance possible.

I expect MSI to have great success with this platform. The total package they offer is great, but the Z87-GD65 GAMING isn't the only board they have. I'll have a review of the Z87-G45 GAMING up soon, and the MPowerMAX sits on my shelf awaiting it's turn in my test bench too.  MSI has impressed me pretty good this time around. I love dragons.


----------



## radrok (Jun 16, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> ASUS said it themselves, CPU OC should be the same across all their products, just the cooling needed with "lesser" boards will be more than with high-end products.
> 
> Differences in memory clocking relate to board design, for sure, but also, BIOS plays a big role too. BIOS can affect CPU overclock too, potentially, in a way that affects performance, so I think we might see some tuned BIOSes that focus on frequency first, and performance last, while most users will want moderate-clocking with the best performance possible.



Basically the difference begins when you step into non 24/7 voltages, right?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 16, 2013)

radrok said:


> Basically the difference begins when you step into non 24/7 voltages, right?



I think so, yes, based on what I have seen so far. I mean, I don't have an endless supply of CPUs to test with, nor LN2 freely flowing from a tap, but what I see with 24/7 clocking does seem to indicate so. Figuring out if it's the CPU playing a bit differently, the boards, or the VRM, (or the memory) would require more chips, at least, for me it would. BIOS updates can change things drastically, and apparently Intel still has many features locked up.


I think it's early days still, and I think it might be possible that we've yet to see the full story about these CPUs yet.

Just starting to get set-up so I can do my pictures of the Maximus VI Extreme, and then I'l lstart putting it together. Rig builds usually only take me about 20 minutes. Having worked in a PC store assembling 1000's of machines helps.  I kind of wish I still did that so that I might have access to bin some CPUs. I really want a 0.95 V CPU, and a 1.15V chip. (high leakage vs low leakage). What I've got now seems to be towards the better end, but still very middling.


----------



## springs113 (Jun 16, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Any thoughts on what might have changed to make it easier for you?
> 
> Also, I am missing some details in the OC ranking for your build...if you could find the time to provide the missing info, that would be awesome!



What exactly amI missing, ihave taken photos just don't know how to post em' here.

I think the changes were so simple.  It was a matter of actually changing voltages from being set automatically to actually giving them face values.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 16, 2013)

springs113 said:


> What exactly amI missing, ihave taken photos just don't know how to post em' here



We (techPowerUp) provide free anonymous hosting here, with a 2 MB per image limit. I usually just open pics up in Paint and re-size to 1280x XXX if they are larger than 2 MB.:


http://www.techpowerup.org/

tehn just stick the image link it provides between the img BB tags, and you're good to go. IF you quote my post, you'll see that the link I provided has "url" tags, replace "url" with "img" at the front and end of the link for pictures to show up in the forum.


Take a look on the front page for your name in the ranking, and what's missing there will tell ya what I'm looking for.


----------



## springs113 (Jun 16, 2013)




----------



## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2013)

springs113 said:


> http://img.techpowerup.org/130616/m1.jpg
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130616/m2.jpg
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130616/m3.jpg
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130616/m4.jpg
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130616/m5.jpg



For voltages, I'm looking for what BIOS reports with all stock settings for both vCore and vRing/vCache.


For OC, NB multi in CPU-z and vRing/vCache you set, might not be able to confirm that vRing one though, seems some boards do not report it.

Got the ASUS Maximus VI Extreme installed in the case, had some fitment issues with the cooler. Just need to pop in some ram, and then install the OS.


----------



## MetalRacer (Jun 17, 2013)

Looking good Dave!

Heres a link to the latest M6E beta BIOS posted by Shammy.
http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25478&postcount=34


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2013)

MetalRacer said:


> Looking good Dave!
> 
> Heres a link to the latest M6E beta BIOS posted by Shammy.
> http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25478&postcount=34



Yeah, got it a few days ago. Getting closer...


----------



## radrok (Jun 17, 2013)

Love RoG boards, as a test bench user I use almost all of the onboard switches.

Can't wait to see your review on the MVIE Dave, do you happen to have the MVIFormula?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2013)

radrok said:


> Love RoG boards, as a test bench user I use almost all of the onboard switches.
> 
> Can't wait to see your review on the MVIE Dave, do you happen to have the MVIFormula?



No Formula, no Impact. Hope to receive both.


UP and running:













No OS yet, but still got time for minor ram clocks:


----------



## springs113 (Jun 17, 2013)

I think I am going to buy the Asrock OC formula and play around with it. I love my MSI but I always wanted to buy the Asrock, too bad it never came out release day.  
Hey Dave did you do the memory testing as of yet, with different memory speeds and how Haswell performs with different speeds.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2013)

springs113 said:


> Hey Dave did you do the memory testing as of yet, with different memory speeds and how Haswell performs with different speeds.






:shadedshu

Just got OS installed, got to do drivers and board software, as well as testing apps, not going to be done any time soon. Lots of work benchmarking ahead for me.


----------



## springs113 (Jun 17, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> :shadedshu
> 
> Just got OS installed, got to do drivers and board software, as well as testing apps, not going to be done any time soon. Lots of work benchmarking ahead for me.



Did you get ahold of the Asrock OC Formula?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2013)

springs113 said:


> Did you get ahold of the Asrock OC Formula?



Not as of yet, but I expect to, is in my schedule. I have Fatal1ty Professional and Z87E-ITX so far.


----------



## DOM (Jun 17, 2013)

What a waste of a mb no ln2 Dave


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2013)

DOM said:


> What a waste of a mb no ln2 Dave



Start paying for it, and I'll gladly do it.  Until then, it'll clock memory just fine on air. 


You are right though. Very interested to see if the Hero and Gene compare to the Maximus for mem clocking, actually. If one of the other two are just as good, I may switch.


----------



## DOM (Jun 17, 2013)

I was just busting your balls lol 

I might get some juice for Friday waiting to see how the week goes first 

And I still can't get mine to clock past 3000 was spoiled with the preset the asrock and rog mg have lol 

And plus mine is just a 2400kit but max I gotten was 3065 on ivy but haven't tried on the new bios 

Does it have a ln2 switch or mode on the mpower max ?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2013)

DOM said:


> I was just busting your balls lol
> 
> I might get some juice for Friday waiting to see how the week goes first
> 
> ...



I've been over 3000, easy, that was with stock settings and voltage. Gotta play with subtimings and tWCL, maybe, haven't fired the Hero up yet. I don't use memory profiles, they never seem to work for me. Had the same on the GRYPHON, no profiles, 125 bclk  with 2933 multi and more with upping the bus is no problem there.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 17, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> I've been over 3000, easy, that was with stock settings and voltage. Gotta play with subtimings and tWCL, maybe, haven't fired the Hero up yet. I don't use memory profiles, they never seem to work for me. Had the same on the GRYPHON, no profiles, 125 bclk  with 2933 multi and more with upping the bus is no problem there.



Until I see your reviews on the Hero and the X-OC, I will not get anything Haswell.


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## DOM (Jun 17, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> I've been over 3000, easy, that was with stock settings and voltage. Gotta play with subtimings and tWCL, maybe, haven't fired the Hero up yet. I don't use memory profiles, they never seem to work for me. Had the same on the GRYPHON, no profiles, 125 bclk  with 2933 multi and more with upping the bus is no problem there.



I'm lazy  

But played with superpi 32m today and uncore


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 17, 2013)

I found something when i Oc'ed ring bus L3 cache last night, temps would jump to crazy 82-88C in Aida64 stress test @ 44x and at auto ring voltage. Auto set to 1.28v (a lot), for example @ 42x set to 1.18v and got max 72C. I've now backed down to 42x and manually set to 1.15v.

I think this is the only thing that makes these cpus so hot., to high cpu ring L3 cache multi & voltage, especially its voltage.



I even managed to lower my cpuv a bit, now im at 1.14v for 4.4ghz and L3 ring at 42x 1.15v.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 17, 2013)

Ok I experimented with OC a bit on L308B202

Ring bus L3 multi at 42x and 1.15v
4.4Ghz ~1.140v
4.5Ghz ~1.165v
4.6Ghz ~1.210v
4.7Ghz ~1.260v (my limit ~80C on avg in Aida64stress)


Anything more and I need better cooling, ie. push - pull fans at H90, atm only push fan at lower rpm. 

4.4Ghz Cinebench11.5: 9.69
4.5Ghz Cinebench11.5: 9.89
4.6Ghz Cinebench11.5: 10.06

I forgot to test 4.7ghz , 



I think i'll settle with max 4.5ghz for now, its summer here and crazy hot with ambient 31C.


----------



## PolRoger (Jun 17, 2013)

@TheHunter:
I've also noticed the same thing... and we are both running on a Z-87 Deluxe... CPU cache voltages can get bumped up quite a lot when running higher multi/uncore/dram speeds... I think I've seen up to ~1.4v being applied under some settings. I also prefer now to set it manually but I find it interesting to sometimes check and see what auto "rules" will default to for a particular overclock.

@cadaveca:
Do you know what the difference is between CPU Analog and Digital I/O? I wonder what the relationship is between the two settings? I guess these Haswell voltages correspond to Sandy/Ivy's old unified VccIO voltage? VTT?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2013)

springs113 said:


> Did you get ahold of the Asrock OC Formula?



Arrived this morning:








PolRoger said:


> @cadaveca:
> Do you know what the difference is between CPU Analog and Digital I/O? I wonder what the relationship is between the two settings? I guess these Haswell voltages correspond to Sandy/Ivy's old unified VccIO voltage? VTT?



Yeah, is VTT broken down to individual parts. Before was PLL/core and VTT/VCCSA, now is VCCin/vCore/vCache(Ring) and VCCSA/DIO/AIO


----------



## Womper (Jun 17, 2013)

I ran Aida64 at the same settings PolRoger used a couple pages back. It's probably the best comparison I can get between my cooler and an AIO cooler, although he's running faster memory (which presumably increases temps some). I'm probably looking at a 10-15C improvement if I switch from my hsf to the h220.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 17, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> arrived this morning:
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130617/dscf9393.jpg
> 
> ...



:d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d :d


----------



## springs113 (Jun 17, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Arrived this morning:
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130617/DSCF9393.jpg
> 
> ...



is that my board....nice


----------



## Jstn7477 (Jun 17, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Arrived this morning:
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130617/DSCF9393.jpg
> 
> ...



I'm interested to see what you think about the Extreme6 (I have the vanilla one of course). Just be warned, keep your speakers turned off unless you want to be surprised by space sounds (makes so much sense) at 100% volume unless other board makers are tacking on sounds in their UEFI as well. You're probably also going to hate how the UEFI lacks a lot of monitoring features and I find that v1.40 freezes up about half the times I go in to change my overclock. Other than that, it's an alright board IMO.


----------



## HammerON (Jun 18, 2013)

Sorry if this has already been posted, but stasio has a CPU-Z beta that correctly shows Vcore readings. Looks like DOM has been using it:
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2906678&postcount=185


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## DOM (Jun 18, 2013)

There's a 1.64.3 out there also to lazy to Google it haha 

Ready to go home and go to sleep 2hrs to go


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 18, 2013)

Found a 4770k with the same batch number as PolRoger's .999 initial voltage chip on Ebay I might snag.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-IN-BOX-...CPU-/151065500146?pt=CPUs&hash=item232c3499f2


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## brandonwh64 (Jun 18, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Found a 4770k with the same batch number as PolRoger's .999 initial voltage chip on Ebay I might snag.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-IN-BOX-...CPU-/151065500146?pt=CPUs&hash=item232c3499f2



Might as well phenom if you are going to get one


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 18, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> Might as well phenom if you are going to get one



Not sure if the fact it has the same batch will it be just as good as a chip. I've never seen two chips with the same batch number.


----------



## erocker (Jun 18, 2013)

I find batch numbers mean squat.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 18, 2013)

erocker said:


> I find batch numbers mean squat.



I think that has changed with Haswell.


----------



## sno.lcn (Jun 18, 2013)

I just snapped this guy on air, at 1.45v.  Obviously puting any stress at these settings would not be a great idea with this the current cooling.  This is low end air.  For 24/7 this chip is good to go at 4500MHz and 1.2v.  Temps run to mid-80s under load.  

Hopefully I can get some nice results on subzero this weekend 

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2836802


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 18, 2013)

CPU-Z multi is whacked, valid or not. should be 50x, not 44x.

like this:


----------



## crazyeyesreaper (Jun 18, 2013)

sno.lcn said:


> I just snapped this guy on air, at 1.45v.  Obviously puting any stress at these settings would not be a great idea with this the current cooling.  This is low end air.  For 24/7 this chip is good to go at 4500MHz and 1.2v.  Temps run to mid-80s under load.
> 
> Hopefully I can get some nice results on subzero this weekend
> 
> ...



Looks fake to me

everyone else shows Multiplier at say 48 (8-48) so considering every other CPU-Z shot is correct in that regard this one looks like BS along with a few other things that don't look quite right.


----------



## sno.lcn (Jun 18, 2013)

The max value for (8-x), x is what I set in BIOS.  After boot, use software to go up to 50, the x value still says the same 

I don't think an overclocker with my reputation would post fake benchmarks.

So what else looks off about it genius?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 18, 2013)

sno.lcn said:


> The max value for (8-x), x is what I set in BIOS.  After boot, use software to go up to 50, the x value still says the same



What software? I got a tonne of boards, never seen that yet. Mind you, I do open CPU-Z after. Anyway, let me know, I'll give it a try.






\



FYI, CPU-Z valids have been hacked quite a bit recently, not sure if that's been fixed with the newer versions. Nobody really cares about a 5 GHz clock, anyway, already got 5.7 GHz by DOM here.



sno.lcn said:


> I don't think an overclocker with my reputation would post fake benchmarks.



Blame Andre. Being a high-ranked OCer means nothing to us "normal" folk.


----------



## sno.lcn (Jun 18, 2013)

Using Asrock Extreme4, boot at 44 multi, CPUz shows (8-44), use software to bump multi, and you see the same result.

Sometimes, it may not show at all, as with my Cinebench result.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 18, 2013)

That's CPU-Z 1.63, doesn't work with Haswell, known issue.


Again, what software to adjust multi?


----------



## sno.lcn (Jun 18, 2013)

Asrock OC software.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 18, 2013)

sno.lcn said:


> Asrock OC software.



ATXU? I'll try it. I got 4 ASRock boards sitting here. NOt the extreme4, but xtreme6, fatal1ty professional, Z87E-ITX, and Z87M-OC Formula.

Might wanna try with 1.64.3 or so though, will end the questions. Is no big deal to multi-validate on OS.


----------



## springs113 (Jun 18, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> ATXU? I'll try it. I got 4 ASRock boards sitting here. NOt the extreme4, but xtreme6, fatal1ty professional, Z87E-ITX, and Z87M-OC Formula.
> 
> Might wanna try with 1.64.3 or so though, will end the questions. Is no big deal to multi-validate on OS.



Dave hurry up with the oc formula...hurry up.


----------



## DOM (Jun 18, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> What software? I got a tonne of boards, never seen that yet. Mind you, I do open CPU-Z after. Anyway, let me know, I'll give it a try.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130617/DSCF9396.jpg\
> 
> ...



5.7 where 

if I get some ln2 Thursday it will be 5.7+ 


also heres 1.64.3 http://rsload.net/noload/files/041/rsload.net.CPU-Z.1.64.3.Beta.zip


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 18, 2013)

DOM said:


> 5.7 where
> 
> if I get some ln2 Thursday it will be 5.7+
> 
> ...



Ha, 55, whatever.



springs113 said:


> Dave hurry up with the oc formula...hurry up.


----------



## DOM (Jun 18, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Ha, 55, whatever.





heres that XTU try to beat me 

http://hwbot.org/submission/2391178_domoca_xtu_core_i7_4770k_1270_marks


----------



## sno.lcn (Jun 18, 2013)

Here's screenshots with performance scaling to show what's going on


----------



## Womper (Jun 18, 2013)

sno.lcn said:


> I just snapped this guy on air, at 1.45v.  Obviously puting any stress at these settings would not be a great idea with this the current cooling.  This is low end air.  For 24/7 this chip is good to go at 4500MHz and 1.2v.  Temps run to mid-80s under load.



I was playing around at 5GHz yesterday too, my chip wants about 1.45v as well. I also had some trouble with the cache speed at 5GHz- it was working fine at 46x cache @ 1.35v cache, but moving down to "Auto" cache ratio with "Auto" voltage was bluescreening on Win7 boot. I was able to boot again after setting cache voltage to 1.15v. I sent Asus an email asking them to add a cache voltage reading to the BIOS of the Z87-Plus.

I also benched 3dmark at 4.8GHz with different cache speeds. Temps peaked at 80C for 46x cache, 78C for 39x cache. The scores are all probably within the margin of error, so cache speed doesn't have much effect on 3dmark. The other game test physics scores behaved no differently, and same for overall 3dmarks in fact.

core 	cache ratio		cache voltage	DDR	Fire Strike Physics result
Auto	Auto			Auto			2133	10629 //Observed 3.9GHz core and cache
48	46			1.325			2133	13643
48	46			1.35			2133	13735
48	Auto(39)		1.25			2133	13721
48	45			1.25			2133	13700


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 18, 2013)

sno.lcn said:


> Here's screenshots with performance scaling to show what's going on
> 
> 
> http://imageshack.us/a/img577/9387/udwb.png http://imageshack.us/a/img20/9923/zqmc.png http://imageshack.us/a/img163/4017/37b0.png



still not a current haswell-supporting CPU-Z...thought you was an OCer...


Rather than just getting all defensive, could have just re-submitted, no big deal. We don't do rankings here for e-peen, just so user can get an idea what to expect. If CPU-Z does this, then they should expect it, which makes this a non-issue, really. But if users don't know this is the case, education on the subject can quiet questions.

And yes, current CPU-Z 1.64.3 does the same, just tested.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 18, 2013)

So is cpu-z 1.64.0 bugged  when it shows changing volts, ie vdrop in C-states?


I just tried 1.64.2 and it stays at fixed voltage 1.172v.. Even at balanced power plan where cpu freq. drops.




Edit: Now with 1.64.2
when i set offset +0.100v it downclocked to 0.806v (boosted to 1.196v), with auto voltage it downclocked to 0.706v, but boosted to crazy 1.29v.

1.64.0 still drops to low 0.114v though.


So what gives? Aida64 3.00 shows similar results to new cpu-z 1.64.2


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 18, 2013)

High BCLK/ram, shipping BIOS:







Can't seem to get much more out of this ram, voltage, timings, nothing seems to matter. Tried all bclk/ram multi possibilities...CPU speed causes non-boot with "55" code, so CPU speed does affect ram a bit, but if I drop bclk, I can run higher CPU speeds no problem. Some weird clock-crossing thing, maybe...



TheHunter said:


> So is cpu-z 1.64.0 bugged  when it shows changing volts, ie vdrop in C-states?
> 
> 
> I just tried 1.64.2 and it stays at fixed voltage 1.172v.. Even at balanced power plan where cpu freq. drops.
> ...






Earlier CPU-Z showed cache voltage on some boards.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 18, 2013)

I see, so its best to use offset then?

Maybe something around +0.090v, this would get me similar to my fixed 1.172v
+0.100v gets me max 1.196v, usually 1.185v


EDIT: although 1.64.0 showed the correct voltage at high perf. power plan, this is what's kinda weird. 

Aida64 stayed the same with fixed 1.172v.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 18, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> I see, so its best to use offset then?
> 
> Maybe something around +0.090v, this would get me similar to my fixed 1.172v
> +0.100v gets me max 1.196v, usually 1.185v
> ...



Yeah, offset is the "recommended" way to OC.



Managed to eke out some more, again, had to drop CPU speed, and isn't a voltage thing, for me, gotta figure that one out.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 18, 2013)

Sorry for more questions, im still a noob with this offset 

how can i make it boost less, for example now im at offset  +0.050v and yet it still boosts to max 1.22v in worst case scenario (Aida64, IBT), otherwise ~ 1.15v.

For example +0.030 BSOD with 0x124 code. 


Is this max voltage 1.22v cpu turbo mode fault? I saw it can boost to 4.8ghz with Tmonitor.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 19, 2013)

Well this didnt turn out so well, got at least 10 bsod (0x124) with cpu offset voltage..

Mostly by logon and 2-3 times in idle, +0.050v is the min for 4.5ghz, but can boost to max 1.21v in IBT (imo to much), lol Im stable at fixed 1.17v


Is it true that only C1E and EIST - on, other c-states off, fixes idle offsetV bsod?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 19, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Is it true that only C1E and EIST - on, other c-states off, fixes idle offsetV bsod?



Should be.


And yes, this is common. With Offset, you typically need to run a slightly higher voltage than you would otherwise. You need to account for the drop-off., or lower VID, that high-current workloads do not use, only light workloads do(like on desktop or similar). Small amount of activity causes CPU speed to increase, but high-current VID is not increased, and bam, BSOD.


This is why, I think, that guides that are out now mention this high-current VID being an issue.

Personally, I don't see much issue with using fixed voltage but it does lead to higher slightly power consumption and temps.

BTW, as far as I understand, it might be best with these chips to clock multis independently. Like 47,46,45,44, like stock turbo profiles. This has been hinted at via BIOS profiles and discussions I have had with OEMs this time around.


0x124 is usually CPU voltage. Can be vRing/Cache, and VCCin, too. I'm currently working on trying to get my memory test chip stable, and while it seems to clock better than my board test chip, it is a completely different experience are far harder to stabilize. Been quite fun, actually, I don't mind the BSODs and such...fixing them is pretty rewarding.


----------



## Womper (Jun 19, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> And yes, this is common. With Offset, you typically need to run a slightly higher voltage than you would otherwise. You need to account for the drop-off., or lower VID, that high-current workloads do not use, only light workloads do(like on desktop or similar). Small amount of activity causes CPU speed to increase, but high-current VID is not increased, and bam, BSOD.
> 
> 
> This is why, I think, that guides that are out now mention this high-current VID being an issue.



Maybe this is why I don't get "Adaptive" voltage. I still need to increase the offset voltage to avoid BSOD while booting up or light usage, but by then the offset is more than enough to cover turbo mode. So what's the point of the additional turbo mode voltage?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 19, 2013)

Womper said:


> "Adaptive" voltage.



This mode combines the power-savings of offset, with a "manual" fixed voltage for load, the best of both worlds. Fixed voltages don't allow voltage t drop on idle, but Adaptive mode will. However, that high-current VID cannot be avoided unless those specific workloads are avoided. Hence the recommendations by guides to stop using Prime95 for testing...since it enables that special VID that few other workloads do.


The additional turbo voltage was really meant to kind of be that "Adaptive" setting outside of the high-0current VID, but the way the VIDs work seems to have prevented it from working out the way most users need. I mean, that's just my own thoughts about it, and my conclusion, might not be the truth.


So, four different workloads. single-thread, dual-thread, etc, etc, etc...does each enable a different VID? if it does, can we adjust them? It seems to me that that would be the way to approach clocking with Haswell, but I don't exactly find those specific options in BIOS.


----------



## DOM (Jun 19, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Yeah, offset is the "recommended" way to OC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



what volts do you need for that 195 blck 

I couldn't get it to post on the 1.67 strap plus idk wth im doing


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 19, 2013)

DOM said:


> what volts do you need for that 195 blck
> 
> I couldn't get it to post on the 1.67 strap plus idk wth im doing



volts? seriously..this may amaze you...or not.

I used stock, pretty much. 1.30V on CPU was only to ensure the CPU clock wasn't an issue. Turns out, I still was, and CPU voltage played little role in this for me. Voltage isn't the problem at all. Cache was @ 1.05V up to 1.3V, screenshot there is with 1.05V. VCCSA @ 1.05V as well, as were VCCAIO and VCCDIO. 

Take a look at the low CPU clocks 200 BCLK posters have. it's all about other settings to stabilize the clocks. ASUS Maximus VI Extreme has auto-profile to do this, this isn't something I figured out on my own, just enabled profile, tried it, and then lowered voltages to far more acceptable levels. Shamino did a good job making sure that users will have no problems enabling such profiles if their CPU is capable. 200 BLCK wouldn't work for me, but 200 profile with lower clock is fine, as is the lower profiles(which really only seem to change the PLX bridge voltage, actually, will have to pick my way through the BIOS to find what else changes.


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 19, 2013)

Here is our Haswell overclocking guide...

http://www.overclockers.com/3step-guide-to-overclock-intel-haswell


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 19, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> Here is our Haswell overclocking guide...
> 
> http://www.overclockers.com/3step-guide-to-overclock-intel-haswell



got one for the MSI Mpower he's using?   potential is the same across all boards, but how you get there isn't, unfortunately. Might as well have just posted the ASUS guide. Hmm, I'll ask if I can, there's way more info in that guide than you guys relate although all the important stuff is there.

There is also two guides for that ASUS board, BTW.
I don't agree with this, however:



> If you manually set it, always keep the Cache/ Ring Bus / Uncore Frequency within 100-300 MHz of your CPU Core speed



That's just an efficiency thing, makes little difference for 24/7. Doesn't even really impact memory bandwidth like I had expected.

or this:



> System Agent (VCCSA) voltage: 1.15 V to 1.25 V




Here I sit running 2933 MHz with 0.950 V. Why do I need 1.15 V to 1.25V? I don't have a "cherry-picked' CPU like the ES CPU used to make that guide, and my "worse" CPU needs just the same. Just jacking up the votlages poses just as many issues as not having enough.

or this:



> But – and this is a big, bold, italicized, very notable but - overclocking a Haswell CPU at the same time as overclocking the RAM will reduce your IMC’s ability to overclock or reduce your CPU’s ability to overclock. You have to choose one or the other, which is why the CPU came first in this guide. Core speed is king; remember that. If it comes down to choosing which to push farther, the CPU should always win in your calculations.




I haven't found this to be true at all. At the extreme side of things, yes, but @ 4.4 GHz with 100 BLCK...nope. Maybe I need more chips to try, but my retails don't act like this at all, only when BCLK is pushed as I illustrated up above. 


These discrepancies between what I found and ASUS's guide (since that's your guide's source of info as plainly stated) is why I haven't posted my own guide yet. I will...once I've tested more boards and seen if what ASUS relates hold true with all boards.


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 19, 2013)

Just in my head...

I couldnt get past 125 bclk (went right for 166) before both bios' crapped out on me (sent back to MSI as they were unrecoverable with 9A POST codes). Even a DOS flash didn't bring them back, LOL! Not sure if it was the CPU I have or the board (bclk issue).. but we will find out soon enough as I have another CPU and boards to play with.

The only boards I have now are in the mail (Biostar something or other, and Xpower is on its way which will go under LN2 for the review as well). 

The link was meant generically for the thread, note, not a specific board/person. Its high level enough to get the people here, where they want to be.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 19, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> Its high level enough to get the people here, where they want to be.



I was editing, sorry. I might not agree with all of that, having played with a few chips and many boards now.  Every guide suggests increasing CPU Cache multi, I'd prefer to not offer that and use a baseline x39 multi like you see most users in our ranking using.

And I do realize that you were posting with no specific target, just wondering if MSI gave you any tips they didn't give me already that might have helped you get over that issue you had.

Personally...memory is what is corrupting BOISes. I've done it on other boards, too, ASUS, MSI, and Gigabyte. Might just be something with the MEI since that was an issue with Z77 Express for me that took ASUS many months to fix, dunno.


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 19, 2013)

Yeah, I dont touch it either... and at REALLY high clocks, I leave it at 39x, otherwise, for stability, in my short experience, it holds true. 

Naa, just the strap 'windows' is all they gave me. That was lack of knowledge on my part. I thought, like X79(?) you could set 1.25x strap and leave bclk alone, but they said just to raise bclk and let the strap adjust automatically. I was on the X79 platform for such a little time though I dont even recall if that was true (1.25 @ with bclk at 100 = 125bclk). You cant manually set the strap on this board. Everyone else uses asus' profiles for sky high blck it seems.

Memory was set LOW when the corruption happened... like 1600Mhz (from the XMP of 2666). So it shouldnt have been that (but certainly agree high memory can do that).


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 19, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> So it shouldnt have been that (but certainly agree high memory can do that).



Clock meshes when pushing BCLK. 1600 isn't high, but combined with 104 BCLK, that's almost too much. I notice corruption 100% @ 105 BCLK. Changed DIMMs, and no problem. So I didn't mean speed per se..just memory in general. Might be some timing set with specific DIMMS or something, not sure.


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 19, 2013)

I only have one set of fast ram (Kingston Hyper X Predator), so hopefully that isnt it. MSI will crap if I bork both bios on the Xpower... haha!


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 19, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> I only have one set of fast ram (Kingston Hyper X Predator), so hopefully that isnt it. MSI will crap if I bork both bios on the Xpower... haha!



I had some issues getting 2933 MHz MFR working on the GD65, turn out it was tWCL, stick SPD lists tWCL @ 7, board listened. What was really needed was tWCL @ 10. Set 7 on ASUS, BIOS corrupted, USB stopped wokring and voltages were weird, wouldn't hit stock after short clear, overnight CMOS clear fixed it.

Predators..Samsungs, like mine?

I've got MFR 2933,  DBL-side Hynix 2666 C11 that does 3000+ as well as 2666C109 dominator plats. Secondary timings need to be very different with this platform, for sure.


----------



## Womper (Jun 19, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> This mode combines the power-savings of offset, with a "manual" fixed voltage for load, the best of both worlds. Fixed voltages don't allow voltage t drop on idle, but Adaptive mode will. However, that high-current VID cannot be avoided unless those specific workloads are avoided. Hence the recommendations by guides to stop using Prime95 for testing...since it enables that special VID that few other workloads do.
> 
> 
> The additional turbo voltage was really meant to kind of be that "Adaptive" setting outside of the high-0current VID, but the way the VIDs work seems to have prevented it from working out the way most users need. I mean, that's just my own thoughts about it, and my conclusion, might not be the truth.
> ...



So if I use Adaptive with 0 additional turbo voltage and some offset, then we expect it to act the same as just using Offset mode with the same offset? The Intel tuner doesn't show any real difference in behavior in terms of idle voltage between Adaptive and Offset modes- it reports about 0.9v at an idle of 800MHz (probably because I had nearly the same offset in both).

A lot of the articles out there, including overclockers.com's above, refer to this "Interpolation (adaptive)" mode from an Intel slide. It indicates that only the overclocking region is effected, versus Offset which affects all regions of voltage/frequency. If this is true, then I would expect idle 800MHz to have a lower voltage using Adaptive mode than Offset mode.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 19, 2013)

Womper said:


> I would expect idle 800MHz to have a lower voltage using Adaptive mode than Offset mode.



Correct. That is SUPPOSED to be how it works. Maybe what you see now is just an unintentional BIOS bug.


----------



## DOM (Jun 19, 2013)

gave up already made me  

guess its the imc or the mb XD


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 19, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Snip...


NOt sure what is under the hood. 2666 CL11(13/13/34?) 1.65v.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 19, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> NOt sure what is under the hood. 2666 CL11(13/13/34?) 1.65v.



Gotta look at the side of the ICs themselves, myself, to be 100% sure...but.... Samsung should be easy to spot..should say Samsung right on the PCB. if just numbers on PCB instead of "Samsung", is likely Hynix then(99.99999999999999%)

My LP Samsung 1.35V sticks, they do 6-6-6 great, still do, the Samsung on the Dominator Plats and my Predators, man oh man, doesn't boot tight latency at all. So timings don't say too much, unfortunately. These guys doing the binning for these memory OEMs...let's just say I'm pretty damn impressed. 

Killed my old Hypers, too. they won't do 6-7-6 even, any more. Kind of sad.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 19, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> This mode combines the power-savings of offset, with a "manual" fixed voltage for load, the best of both worlds. Fixed voltages don't allow voltage t drop on idle, but Adaptive mode will. However, that high-current VID cannot be avoided unless those specific workloads are avoided. Hence the recommendations by guides to stop using Prime95 for testing...since it enables that special VID that few other workloads do.
> 
> 
> The additional turbo voltage was really meant to kind of be that "Adaptive" setting outside of the high-0current VID, but the way the VIDs work seems to have prevented it from working out the way most users need. I mean, that's just my own thoughts about it, and my conclusion, might not be the truth.
> ...



I tried adaptive once, but I was even more lost 


So lets say i need around +0.050v offset voltage for 4.5ghz., how would I set adaptive then?

cpu offset +0.030v and turbo offset +0.020v so its combined to +0.050v?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 19, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> cpu offset  0.030v and turbo offset  0.020v so its combined to  0.050v?



Ideally, yes. with "Adaptive" use CPU offset for bclk increases, turbo offset for CPU multi increases.


But, I dunno if offset is based on VID for a multi, or vid at stock, or by a random number...haven't gotten that far myself. How it's supposed to work in theory I know, but sometimes in practice it doesn't work out right. 


For now, I think using a set voltage is fine, but I won't use that in the end. Still trying to figure out what my PCU needs and how it scales before I pick a clock to use for testing. For board testing, that chip was very easy to get stable, but this other chip..sheesh, I'm still working on it. It's nice to have the contrast and see what applies to both, but...lulz...I understand why many many chips are needed for testing for BIOS tuning just to give us options in the first place.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 19, 2013)

Ok I've set offset +0.030v, turbo +0.015v and it seems to work, i managed to get into windows. I also disabled all extra C-states, except C1/CO and EIST. And left cpu cache/ring voltage at auto (1.18v) - this is a bit high for 41x imo, guess I'll put back to manual.

Do you know what's the max safe cpu VRM voltage, when i checked UEFI it said when OC'ed disable this so its a fixed value, in my case now 1.72v, but if i put manually in this number its in the red zone, for example 1.30v is in the green..

Also what's this VCCSA in bios? I see here its 0.808v







Tnx 


EDIT: this above was for 4.4ghz

At 4.5ghz i needed offset of +0.042v and lowered turbo to +0.017v, max total in Aida64 1.209v, still kinda high for my liking though..


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 20, 2013)

Good to hear you got it working.



TheHunter said:


> Also what's this VCCSA in bios? I see here its 0.808v



VCCSA = vSystem Agent, which is basically the memory controller. So with lower memory speeds, you shouldn't need to increase it at all. Same goes for VCCAIO and VCCDIO, the separate analogue and digital domains of the system agent. I couldn't tell you specifically what each is, but I think I got it figured out. Anyway, those other two are usually only needed for BCLK clocking, but might help generally in some rare situations where the chip "prefers" to keep all voltages within specific ratios.

With the board test chip, I set 1.140 for cache, 1.285V for cores, and 1.65 V for memory. CPU is set to 46, and memory @ 2666 or whatever. No other changes are needed.

This other chip I have for memory testing, has lower CPU VID, but higher cache VID, in near exact opposites voltages (1.020 for one, 1.040V for the other, swap 'em when you swap chips), and the same settings...not stable at all.


----------



## Jstn7477 (Jun 20, 2013)

I tried 44x/44x 1.240v for a couple days and unfortunately I got random lockups and BSODs of varying codes like 0x0A. 43x/43x 1.200v seems to be completely stable, though. My temperatures probably have something to do with it as I'm in the low to mid 90s with distributed computing load. I can certainly try 44x/43x and different voltages, but I think I have both crappy silicon and temps that are too high. 

Also, my attempts to try 125 BCLK were futile over the weekend. I set DDR3-1600, 35x/35x multis, 125 BCLK, 1.25 BCLK strap, PCIe to use SB clock and I was greeted with a constantly rebooting PC that would not POST.


----------



## PolRoger (Jun 20, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> NOt sure what is under the hood. 2666 CL11(13/13/34?) 1.65v.





cadaveca said:


> Gotta look at the side of the ICs themselves, myself, to be 100% sure...but.... Samsung should be easy to spot..should say Samsung right on the PCB. if just numbers on PCB instead of "Samsung", is likely Hynix then(99.99999999999999%)
> 
> My LP Samsung 1.35V sticks, they do 6-6-6 great, still do, the Samsung on the Dominator Plats and my Predators, man oh man, doesn't boot tight latency at all. So timings don't say too much, unfortunately. These guys doing the binning for these memory OEMs...let's just say I'm pretty damn impressed.



I also have a kit of the Predator 2666C11. If you still have the original outer packaging there is a small ic code on the front label. My kit shows a 16... which I believe is Samsung ic. The Predator 2400C11 kits are Hynix... code 32.

Post #205... http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...2666-Preview&p=5130957&viewfull=1#post5130957

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2016/1/


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 20, 2013)

Ok yeah I got it working at 4.4ghz with 0.030v and turbo 0.020v (still not 100% sure though), but for 4.5ghz its a bit different.

At 4.5ghz it bosd 0x124 a lot, same error every time WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR
I used 0.042v and 0.020v but it wasnt enough by mid-high load. 


Is it true now it can turbo boost beyond multi? For example by 4.4ghz it apparently boosts to 4.7ghz  





by 4.5ghz it "boosts" to 4.8Ghz.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 20, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> I also have a kit of the Predator 2666C11. If you still have the original outer packaging there is a small ic code on the front label. My kit shows a 16... which I believe is Samsung ic. The Predator 2400C11 kits are Hynix... code 32.
> 
> Post #205... http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...2666-Preview&p=5130957&viewfull=1#post5130957
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/article/2016/1/



Mine are Samsung. 2400 MHz C11. Thanks anyway for the IC code info, didn't know that was there.  I have 16 as well.


----------



## FireKillerGR (Jun 20, 2013)

Guys, please do not try to open your platinum dimms otherwise you will kill them. Corsair uses a glue with the pad which means you have more possibilities on harming your dimm than on any other vendor. 
Also latest kits may have two version aka IC. 4.13 is for samsung and the other one for hynix (cant remember the number right now).


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 20, 2013)

FireKillerGR said:


> Guys, please do not try to open your platinum dimms otherwise you will kill them. Corsair uses a glue with the pad which means you have more possibilities on harming your dimm than on any other vendor.
> Also latest kits may have two version aka IC. 4.13 is for samsung and the other one for hynix (cant remember the number right now).





As if. Corsair has always done that with their dominator DIMMs. If you want to remove heatspreaders, say to mount a waterblock or pot hardware, you need to buy Vengeance Extreme sticks (which is why Corsair offers that product line, IMHO).

rev. 4.13 is Samsung, 5.12 is Hynix.

We're talking about Kingston sticks, anyway. Corsair has always been pretty open with IC info.


----------



## FireKillerGR (Jun 20, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> As if. Corsair has always done that with their dominator DIMMs. If you want to remove heatspreaders, say to mount a waterblock or pot hardware, you need to buy Vengeance Extreme sticks (which is why Corsair offers that product line, IMHO).
> 
> rev. 4.13 is Samsung, 5.12 is Hynix.
> 
> We're talking about Kingston sticks, anyway. Corsair has always been pretty open with IC info.



Huh yeah put wanted to say something just to be sure ^^


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 20, 2013)

FireKillerGR said:


> Huh yeah put wanted to say something just to be sure ^^



I meant just looking at the side of the ICs, not looking at what's written on top. Many times ICs are scrubbed, so removing heatspreaders is a thing I'll not try often, anyway. There are very obvious physical markers on each IC that makes it easy to spot which is which, just by looking under the headspeader at the edge of the IC. I'm sure you've seen a few pictures depicting this on various sites over the years.

For me, clocking says a lot about what IC is inside as well. I don't list this info in reviews unless it's painfully obvious which IC is used, since some brands prefer that the info is not disclosed. These 2400 MHz C11 sticks from Kingston illustrate the perfect example of why...since they might not use the same IC in all kits for the entire time they sell the kits...and hey don't want to give false impressions aobut what you may get out of a kit based on a single review that says there are certain ICs under the heatspreader.


----------



## Womper (Jun 20, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Ok yeah I got it working at 4.4ghz with 0.030v and turbo 0.020v (still not 100% sure though), but for 4.5ghz its a bit different.
> 
> At 4.5ghz it bosd 0x124 a lot, same error every time WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR
> I used 0.042v and 0.020v but it wasnt enough by mid-high load.
> ...



Adaptive doesn't seem to be useful. I need exactly the same offset as "Offset mode" to reach stability, and at that point it has (dare I say) ample voltage for heavy load. Now, what might be useful is a negative turbo voltage. For some reason I feel like it doesn't need so much voltage at max load.

I've been running at 4.8GHz for a while now, and every now and then I do see it spike to 4.9GHz. I can't remember if I was in Offset or Adaptive mode in those instances.

I'm settling in on a +0.230v offset for 4.8GHz. Cache is still at 4.6GHz with manual 1.35v. For gaming, core voltage hangs around 1.31v-1.33v via Intel Tuner and temps are under 70. I got a response from Asus regarding the lack of a cache voltage display, and they suggested changing the A. I. Overclock Tuner to "Manual" (I have it set to XMP). I'll try it later.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 20, 2013)

Hm sounds possible, will have a look later 


Yeah i have cache voltage display in XMP profile, usually its 0.05v higher. Probably because of LLC at auto which uses default max lvl8.

UEFI screens


Spoiler


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 20, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Hm sounds possible, will have a later
> 
> 
> Yeah i have cache voltage display in XMP profile, usually its 0.05v higher. Probably because of LLC at auto which uses default max lvl8.
> ...



Nice. "Fully manual" mode in the VRM section will change the offset options for other things to manual settings as well, and show voltage for those too, although I found that "Fully manual" on the MVIE sets lowest values that are higher than stock is for the chip. Not sure what it will do on your board.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 20, 2013)

I see thanks, although mine is not fully manual, there is still something locked 






With Fully Manual ON, it shows all cpu voltages and all possible offsets - overkill


----------



## Womper (Jun 20, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Hm sounds possible, will have a later
> 
> 
> Yeah i have cache voltage display in XMP profile, usually its 0.05v higher. Probably because of LLC at auto which uses default max lvl8.
> ...



I think cache voltage appears when I set it manually. But I have no idea what my default cache voltage is; Auto mode causes the voltage reading to disappear.

I want to use Offset Mode to get 1.35v instead of Manual, but I don't know the base voltage I'm offsetting from. Neither the BIOS nor Win7 programs seem to have a cache voltage report. They all say "default" when I'm on auto, or simply report my BIOS settings-- no real time absolute voltage.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 20, 2013)

Womper said:


> I think cache voltage appears when I set it manually. But I have no idea what my default cache voltage is; Auto mode causes the voltage reading to disappear.
> 
> I want to use Offset Mode to get 1.35v instead of Manual, but I don't know the base voltage I'm offsetting from. Neither the BIOS nor Win7 programs seem to have a cache voltage report. They all say "default" when I'm on auto, or simply report my BIOS settings-- no real time absolute voltage.



set offset to "+", and to 0.001V. That'll tell you what "stock" is. OFFSET should be from that value.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 20, 2013)

@Womper

hm when i enabled XMP it showed ok by next UEFI reboot,



I saw the same thing by this asus rog extreme UEFI, cache at auto 39x with 1.045v

2nd pic
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/asus_maximus_extreme_vi_z87_review,7.html


Im guessing its by all ~ 1.05- 1.10v by default 3900mhz 

Newest Aida64 beta reads it correctly too - cpu cache v and north bridge clock






Edit: or yes try cadaveca's tweak. 

At 43x I lowered to 1.140v and it also passed, 

at 41x and auto voltage 1.18v, at 43-45x and auto voltage  1.27v lol


----------



## PolRoger (Jun 20, 2013)

@cadaveca: Your kit (2400C11) is the first that I've seen posted on the forums using Samsung.



cadaveca said:


> There is also two guides for that ASUS board, BTW.
> I don't agree with this, however:
> 
> That's just an efficiency thing, makes little difference for 24/7. Doesn't even really impact memory bandwidth like I had expected.
> ...



I've been thinking about what you've posted... I had been running/testing some higher cache multi(s) as well as manually setting VccSA for higher memory speeds. So I decided to go back and try some overclocks with lower voltage settings.

Running 45x with 2400 memory speed at auto settings for CPU cache (ring) and CPU SA

Cache defaults to 1.050v in BIOS
SA defaults to .85v in BIOS

I'm pretty sure that these kinds of cpu clocking characteristics will vary with individual samples but with mine...

45x/45x... locked up in POST.
45x/44x... locked up at Windows splash screen.
45x/43x... loaded Windows but locked up trying to briefly run Prime Large FFT.
45x/42x... loaded Windows and briefly ran Prime Large FFT but later locked up after ~30(+) min. running 8 threads Rosetta and browsing the web.
45x/41x... Testing now...
45x/40x... Ran ~8(+) hrs. Rosetta 100% load last night.
45x/39x... Not tested yet.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 20, 2013)

Hiya , I just dropped in to tell you all how bad I think intel cpus are but there not , so I can't ,, bye.XD


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## cadaveca (Jun 20, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> 45x/45x... locked up in POST.
> 45x/44x... locked up at Windows splash screen.
> 45x/43x... loaded Windows but locked up trying to briefly run Prime Large FFT.
> 45x/42x... loaded Windows and briefly ran Prime Large FFT but later locked up after ~30( ) min. running 8 threads Rosetta and browsing the web.
> ...



That seems to be the same as my CPUs. Not the exact multis of course, since I am pushing x46 on CPU, but how it progresses stability-wise, for sure.

Speaking about motherboard test chip(since it seems the two I have are different):


I also found that increasing vRing/vCache can affect CPU multi in a way too. Like keeping CPUv @ 1.285v, and cache multi @ x39, 1.040 default cache. I can get into windows with up to x45 on CPU, but x46 won't boot in. x45 isn't stable, x44 works fine. Increase cache votlage to 1.140 (I like to push .1v additions to see if it helps, then reduce after to find where it starts to fail, then go back up a bit, like tuning a guitar string but backwards.), x45 CPU was stable, x46 boot, x47 boots, x46 not fully stable, increase cache to 1.15V, system fully stable.

So maybe if I keep increasing cache volts, I can lower CPU volts?


put that to the test, but no dice. CPU still needs 1.285V for x46. anything more than 1.15V on cache has no effect, just increases temps.


So, now, what about increasing that cache multi? Yep, it goes up to x42, no problem. further, needs voltage increase, but anything over x44, no effect. Tried all voltages, nothing seems to help. I've already done more than the average user will, so stopped. Went back down to x39 on CPU multi, and those settings have worked now for every board with this chip. They do not work at all with the other chip.


This chip also cannot boot 2933 MHz ram multi without increasing VCCSA up to 1.15V. bclk to 125 to get 3000 and over, no problem, only needs 1.05V



PolRoger said:


> @cadaveca: Your kit (2400C11) is the first that I've seen posted on the forums using Samsung.



I received my set direct form Kingston just a few months ago, just a week or two before I posted the review of the 10th Anniversary Genesis sticks. They sent me those predators, the Beast sticks, and the Anniversary sticks all in one package. Dunno if I was even supposed to review all three, since that Predator line is rather old now, but did it anyway since I noticed that my sticks were Samsun, contrary to what you find posted. But I also know that those that buy Kingston ram, and it's many many users, seldom post on forums. I dunno why it works that way, but you typically only see enthusiasts with Kingston ram when some OC guys posts killer clocks with them and then everyone buys a set.

Anyway, I know it's odd, but we also both know that this is also perfectly normal. For example, I get my G.skill kits usually before most other reviewers. Often what I get is different from other reviewers, and retail sometimes too. It's just that with G.skill, I usually get first batches, and reviewers get second batches, or with different SPDs programmed(I notice this often). I've bought retail kits after and found that what I get often matches local retail with G.skill, so maybe it's even just a region thing. I also noticed on XS there is a thread about trying to figure out serial numbers to find ICs, but I find what I get for serial numbers contradicts what's posted there, and I most definitely know what ICs are in my G.Skill sets.


So, physical identification is ALWAYS needed. However, what you posted about that IC code does seem to be true so far, so thanks for that, I'll keep track of that since Kingston is sure to send me more ram for reviews.


----------



## MaXiMiZe (Jun 20, 2013)

I have the chance to pick a batch for my CPU. Any recommendations?


----------



## Womper (Jun 20, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> @Womper
> 
> hm when i enabled XMP it showed ok by next UEFI reboot,
> 
> ...



Yeah, I set a +0.001 Offset to try to fool it. But the cache voltage reading again doesn't appear unless I'm in Manual voltage mode. The Intel Tuner doesn't help either- it reports "Default voltage with +0.001 offset."

I'll check out that new version of Aida64, that's exactly what I need. Otherwise I'll just assume 1.05v and start at +0.3v offset for my 4.6GHz cache target.



cadaveca said:


> That seems to be the same as my CPUs. Not the exact multis of course, since I am pushing x46 on CPU, but how it progresses stability-wise, for sure.
> 
> Speaking about motherboard test chip(since it seems the two I have are different):
> 
> ...



Since I'm living dangerously with just a hsf, I decided to test 46x cache stability by setting 1 core to 46x and the rest to 43x, and then cache @ 46x with a fixed 1.325v. While it might not be the same as 46x on all cores, it at least helps you determine the lowest voltage the cache can take at these higher clock speeds that might otherwise cause throttling.


----------



## DOM (Jun 20, 2013)

Well found out hynix oc a lot better then samsung got the 2933 to boot


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 20, 2013)

DOM said:


> Well found out hynix oc a lot better then samsung got the 2933 to boot



definitely. 12-15-15-37 should get you to 3100+.


----------



## DOM (Jun 20, 2013)

still cant oc the bclk for crap  boots but doent make into windows


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 20, 2013)

DOM said:


> still cant oc the bclk for crap  boots but doent make into windows



try lower CPU speed. also, PLX voltage seems to paly a role, too. If you look, there's a condensed version of Shamino's OC guide I saw...uh.. I don't remember where..anyway, it might point you in the right direction.


BCLK clocking only helps scale memory higher than 2933, also affects performance negatively in some instances, so I don't care if it works or not. I check on the OC boards, of course...

EDIT: found that guide:

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7501162


----------



## DOM (Jun 21, 2013)

guess theres something im not doing but the gpu doesn't like the high bclk used the hdmi off the mb was about to get in to windows at 140 but cant oc the ram that high


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 21, 2013)

DOM said:


> guess theres something im not doing but the gpu doesn't like the high bclk used the hdmi off the mb was about to get in to windows at 140 but cant oc the ram that high



weird. so the PCIe clock isn't adjusting as it should then, maybe. I'll be starting work on the MPowerMax soon, we'll see what I can find out and I'll add that to your feedback and submit to MSI.


----------



## Womper (Jun 21, 2013)

I'm beginning to think the Z87-Plus lacks a cache voltage sensor. Here's a screenshot of Aida64 version 3.00.2514 Beta and the Intel tuner.



Spoiler









Spoiler


----------



## HammerON (Jun 21, 2013)

Thanks to Dave and 15th Warlock I was able to get to 4.7GHz
Not sure how stable this is yet:




EDIT:
Needed more Vcore for these runs:


----------



## PolRoger (Jun 21, 2013)

Womper said:


> I'm beginning to think the Z87-Plus lacks a cache voltage sensor. Here's a screenshot of Aida64 version 3.00.2514 Beta and the Intel tuner.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You could try using HWiNFO64...

http://www.hwinfo.com/beta/hw64_419_1950.zip

My Z87-Deluxe has a cache voltage sensor but I've noticed that the M6E seems to have a CPU PLL voltage sensor which the Deluxe does not show so I suppose the sensors can vary by motherboard.

I'm running in BIOS with voltage "Fully Manual Mode" set to enabled.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 21, 2013)

Wow nice app. it reads everything, lol even my ram temps  



Womper said:


> I'm beginning to think the Z87-Plus lacks a cache voltage sensor. Here's a screenshot of Aida64 version 3.00.2514 Beta and the Intel tuner.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah yeah it could be, Asus said some features will be locked by other models (ie lower end).


Mine is Deluxe and has a few missing. 

almost all this stuff in Tweakers paradise(ROG Maximus VI extreme)


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 21, 2013)

HammerON said:


> Thanks to Dave and 15th Warlock I was able to get to 4.7GHz
> Not sure how stable this is yet:
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130621/Capture037.jpg
> EDIT:
> ...



CPU voltage seem quite high. You may want to try setting VCCSA and VCCDIO and VCCAIO all to 1.2 V, and then lower CPU voltage, if getting 0x101 and 0x124 BSOD's.


----------



## Womper (Jun 21, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> CPU voltage seem quite high. You may want to try setting VCCSA and VCCDIO and VCCAIO all to 1.2 V, and then lower CPU voltage, if getting 0x101 and 0x124 BSOD's.



These are CPU System Agent Voltage, CPU Analog I/O voltage, and Digital I/O voltage that I see in my BIOS? What kinda of savings have you seen on the CPU voltage side when doing this?

And I'll be a little pissed if this $200 motherboard doesn't have a cache voltage sensor or who knows what else. It's way more than I've ever spent on motherboard, I was thinking it would be rather high-end.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 21, 2013)

Womper said:


> These are CPU System Agent Voltage, CPU Analog I/O voltage, and Digital I/O voltage that I see in my BIOS? What kinda of savings have you seen on the CPU voltage side when doing this?
> 
> And I'll be a little pissed if this $200 motherboard doesn't have a cache voltage sensor or who knows what else. It's way more than I've ever spent on motherboard, I was thinking it would be rather high-end.



I'm still trying to work out exact values, seems to be moderately successful. Working on many things at once, actually, I gotta slow down, dammit! 


Picked up another chip. Trying to get more from board partners, too.


I understand why that option is not available. It's not really to restrict the user, but to make things easier.


Oh, and high-end boards now-a-days cost $369 and up. Just sayin...


----------



## Jstn7477 (Jun 21, 2013)

My chip is still 124ing at 44x/42x 1.22v/1.185v. Do I have to play with other voltages to get this thing stable or is it purely temperature related?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 21, 2013)

Jstn7477 said:


> My chip is still 124ing at 44x/42x 1.22v/1.185v. Do I have to play with other voltages to get this thing stable or is it purely temperature related?



match CPU multi to cache multi. Match difference in voltages to what your stock VIDs gave, with similar ratio. increase vccsa and vccdio and vccaio in similar ratio. increase vccin slightly as well to match.

if over 90c, voltage is too high, downclock.

if under 90c, increase vccsa, vccaio, vccdio to 1.15V. In no change, then clearly those don't matter for your issue. Try increase in vCPU

It is only when vcore increase needed jumps up that you should look elsewhere.

working on clocking with cores and cache matched now.


----------



## sneekypeet (Jun 21, 2013)

Out of the line of typical questions....why am I not seeing any straps used when OCing?
Is it at all possible using a higher strap and less multi could result in cooler temps or less automatic voltage going into them?

Still in waiting for my kit so I cannot try it for myself.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 21, 2013)

Dave, so EK is planning to release water blocks for the Hero. Get that review out!


----------



## Jstn7477 (Jun 21, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> match CPU multi to cache multi. Match difference in voltages to what your stock VIDs gave, with similar ratio. increase vccsa and vccdio and vccaio in similar ratio. increase vccin slightly as well to match.
> 
> if over 90c, voltage is too high, downclock.
> 
> ...



Averaging 95c with peaks at 100c. 

I guess I'll try to get 42x/42x stable first at 1.18v or so, as I don't think my chip is truly stable at 43x/43x either. If this chip ends up being slower than my 4.5GHz 3770K that went under the knife, I'm going to be kind of disappointed. I shouldn't have to break open a $349 chip to get it to run cooler when my TPC-812 doesn't even get hot.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 21, 2013)

sneekypeet said:


> Is it at all possible using a higher strap and less multi could result in cooler temps or less automatic voltage going into them?



nope, straps are automatically enabled when increasing BCLK(most often). There are huge "HOLES" in BCLK on some boards, so you can only go about 5% +/- to whatever strap is selected. BIOSes for the OC boards that have this issue should be updated soon, I think. Normal boards should nto recveive the same attention to BIOS tweaking by board makers. No reason for them to spend the time doing so.

When overclocking bclk, many boards have PCIe slot connected to SB. Use it. If it is not offered by your board, then don't bother with bclk, as increasing it seems to lower max CPU speed, to the point that I am way under stock, even @ 200 MHz BCLK.

You, since using ASUS, will also want to set everything you can for memory manually before adjusting bclk, or memory performance will suffer in a big way. you can enable XMP, reboot with 100 BCLK, then change to the settings shown. Adjust timings shown to match what SPD tool says, except tWCL and the timings for which there are no real-time readouts. Leave those to auto.



MxPhenom 216 said:


> Dave, so EK is planning to release water blocks for the Hero. Get that review out!




Shut yur pie hole, kid. 

I do one board and one memory kit per week. Next week will be MSI Z87-G45, and if I have some success today with my new CPU, the G.Skill 2933 MHz kit. My schedule won't change since I don't get paid to do reviews. I make my own hours and schedule, thanks, and if I get a bit behind, oh well. If you want to start paying me, then you can dictate what I'm doing.


Go finish clocking your card so we can play some BF3 later. I'll talk to you on TS. 

Seriously, having HUGE flooding issues here in Alberta, my time for reviews just dropped to nothing. 75,000 evacuated so far, more getting pushed out, we've offered our home for people to come stay at. I have to go buy a huge amount of food and other supplies to get down there to those that need it, and to feed the extra mouths here. I'm taking a break now, getting my kids dealt with, but this weekend is gonna be a busy one for me.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2013/06/21/f-calgary-flood-reactions.html


----------



## sneekypeet (Jun 21, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> nope, straps are automatically enabled when increasing BCLK(most often). There are huge "HOLES" in BCLK on some boards, so you can only go about 5%  /- to whatever strap is selected. BIOSes for the OC boards that have this issue should be updated soon, I think. Normal boards should nto recveive the same attention to BIOS tweaking by board makers. No reason for them to spend the time doing so.
> 
> When overclocking bclk, many boards have PCIe slot connected to SB. Use it. If it is not offered by your board, then don't bother with bclk, as increasing it seems to lower max CPU speed, to the point that I am way under stock, even @ 200 MHz BCLK.
> 
> You, since using ASUS, will also want to set everything you can for memory manually before adjusting bclk, or memory performance will suffer in a big way. you can enable XMP, reboot with 100 BCLK, then change to the settings shown. Adjust timings shown to match what SPD tool says, except tWCL and the timings for which there are no real-time readouts. Leave those to auto.



Not too sure what the Sabertooth offers, but thanks for clearing things up somewhat. I guess I will have to tinker when it arrives and see what she is capable of


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 21, 2013)

sneekypeet said:


> Not too sure what the Sabertooth offers, but thanks for clearing things up somewhat. I guess I will have to tinker when it arrives and see what she is capable of



I have the Sabertooth, but won't be getting to it for a couple of weeks. Should be nearly identical to the Gryphon, however, so what you see in that review is what you should expect. Your approach to clocking will dictate what results you get, IMHO, it's not like it's really any more complicated, or anything, but more options available, and slightly different scaling. the sheer number of options can be overwhelming, I guess, but since each part is independently adjustable, both in speeds and voltages, it's just time consuming, not difficult.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 21, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> nope, straps are automatically enabled when increasing BCLK(most often). There are huge "HOLES" in BCLK on some boards, so you can only go about 5% +/- to whatever strap is selected. BIOSes for the OC boards that have this issue should be updated soon, I think. Normal boards should nto recveive the same attention to BIOS tweaking by board makers. No reason for them to spend the time doing so.
> 
> When overclocking bclk, many boards have PCIe slot connected to SB. Use it. If it is not offered by your board, then don't bother with bclk, as increasing it seems to lower max CPU speed, to the point that I am way under stock, even @ 200 MHz BCLK.
> 
> ...



Yeah tonight might be the night I start tweaking it. and running 3DMark and all that. Card gets kind of hot though running at 1019. Maybe time to turn up the fan speed some more.


----------



## HammerON (Jun 21, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> CPU voltage seem quite high. You may want to try setting VCCSA and VCCDIO and VCCAIO all to 1.2 V, and then lower CPU voltage, if getting 0x101 and 0x124 BSOD's.



Yeah I agree
I will mess with the VCCDIO and VCCAIO and lower the Vcore. I left them at "Auto" for those runs. I tried running Valley and 3DMark at 1.280, 1.30 and 1.32 but kept getting 0x124 and 0x101 BSOD's when overclocking the GPU's...
At least the temps weren't too bad. I also did buy the Intel protection plan. I plan to stay with 4.4GHz for 24/7 operation as it is real stable and the temps stay within a good range (low 60's to high 50's) while crunching.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 21, 2013)

HammerON said:


> Yeah I agree
> I will mess with the VCCDIO and VCCAIO and lower the Vcore. I left them at "Auto" for those runs. I tried running Valley and 3DMark at 1.280, 1.30 and 1.32 but kept getting 0x124 and 0x101 BSOD's when overclocking the GPU's...
> At least the temps weren't too bad. I also did buy the Intel protection plan. I plan to stay with 4.4GHz for 24/7 operation as it is real stable and the temps stay within a good range (low 60's to high 50's) while crunching.



^^^Why you no reply to my PMs?


----------



## HammerON (Jun 21, 2013)

Sorry been busy
PM replied to.


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## Womper (Jun 21, 2013)

HammerON said:


> Yeah I agree
> I will mess with the VCCDIO and VCCAIO and lower the Vcore. I left them at "Auto" for those runs. I tried running Valley and 3DMark at 1.280, 1.30 and 1.32 but kept getting 0x124 and 0x101 BSOD's when overclocking the GPU's...
> At least the temps weren't too bad. I also did buy the Intel protection plan. I plan to stay with 4.4GHz for 24/7 operation as it is real stable and the temps stay within a good range (low 60's to high 50's) while crunching.



I left my SA, DIO, and AIO on auto too. I'll set them manually and see if I can pull my core voltage down some.

And the Intel protection plan is void when you delid, right? If I get an H220, I'll just delid while I'm at it.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 21, 2013)

Jstn7477 said:


> My chip is still 124ing at 44x/42x 1.22v/1.185v. Do I have to play with other voltages to get this thing stable or is it purely temperature related?



LLC to the max? 
If not you could try higher and stabilize cpuv with lower volts. 


But imo that looks a lot just for 4.4ghz, not to brag or anything I need 1.170v @ 4.5ghz/ ring bus either 41x or 43x @ 1.14 or 1.155v stable with both.

Using offset voltage mode is another story though and i can bsod a lot, still 0x124. I didnt disable all c-states, will see more later.


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## Jstn7477 (Jun 22, 2013)

Trying some offsets now for VCCSA, DIO and AIO after BSODing again about 2 minutes after opening Mumble. I've started with +0.025v on all three of those (not familiar with how they work) and 44x/42x 1.18v for both core/ring. I'm thinking since I was trying high voltages on the core/ring and still getting BSODs that it must be one of the "minor" voltages that isn't enough.

EDIT: BSOD'd after writing this. Trying 1.20v vcore now.


----------



## Womper (Jun 22, 2013)

Jstn7477 said:


> Trying some offsets now for VCCSA, DIO and AIO after BSODing again about 2 minutes after opening Mumble. I've started with +0.025v on all three of those (not familiar with how they work) and 44x/42x 1.18v for both core/ring. I'm thinking since I was trying high voltages on the core/ring and still getting BSODs that it must be one of the "minor" voltages that isn't enough.
> 
> EDIT: BSOD'd after writing this. Trying 1.20v vcore now.



Tried some of these SA, DIO, and AIO voltages as well.

4.8GHz with a 0.175 offset voltage, 4.6GHz cache with manual 1.35v, and DDR 2133 is very borderline- Win7 blue screens often when booting. Tested with SA, DIO, and AIO on: Auto (0.840v, ?v, ?v), +0.1v offset on all three, and +0.2v offset on all three. I didn't see any improvement in boot reliability.

To see if DDR was a possible cause of instability, I also setup 4.8GHz @ manual 1.3v and ran Aida64 with the Stress CPU, Stress cache, and Stress Memory checkboxes (FPU was unchecked due to temp explosion). I did this with DDR2133 and DDR1600. First try was with DDR2133 and failed in 53 sec. DDR1600 lasted 2:30 before I stopped the run. DDR2133 for a second time lasted 2:30 before I stopped it. At this point, I don't think DDR2133 is causing the instability- probably just core voltage. Needless to say, 1.3v manual will insta-freeze on prime95 large FFT, so don't go thinking it's really stable or anything.

Also, I often get a 0x124 during win7 boot after fiddling with BIOS settings. Just happened now when I changed back to stock settings, so I feel like it's the mobo f-ing up. I think my x58 board from MSI had a similar behavior.


----------



## DOM (Jun 22, 2013)

Fail sauce today on ln2 glad I don't own a gun


----------



## Jstn7477 (Jun 22, 2013)

I think my CPU might have a really weak cache unless I'm still doing something wrong. 44x @ 1.18v 124s pretty much 2 minutes after boot, 42x lasts about 10 minutes and I'm now at 40x cache with 44x core. I think I'll do some vcore tuning to see what it reaches at 1.2v. Haven't had much time this week to play with this, but right now max temperature is 90c vs 100c I was hitting earlier with 44x/42x and some high voltage.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 22, 2013)

195 BCLK on retail CPU with 3120 MHZ ram, CPU-Z validated:

http://valid.canardpc.com/2840147


----------



## radrok (Jun 22, 2013)

After a certain memory frequency you are forced to go under CPU spec frequency for stability?

Insane bus speed btw


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## cadaveca (Jun 22, 2013)

radrok said:


> After a certain memory frequency you are forced to go under CPU spec frequency for stability?
> 
> Insane bus speed btw



I am not sure. That might be the case, but I am working right now to find out. I have many kits of ram sitting here next to me, I asked one of the real mem gurus for some tips, and we'll see where it takes me.

Bus speed...Yeah, ASUS board, man, killer stuff. Someone asked me for a valid, was scoffing at it being done by a retail chip. So there you go. Now I can say my chip is capable...are the other OC boards? Should be some fun.

This is on a Corsair H90, too, BTW, nothing really fancy cooling-wise.

having the matched CPU speed, Ring speed and memory speed is kinda cool. I'd really like to get 3600 MHz all around for some benching. Dunno if that's even possible.


----------



## radrok (Jun 22, 2013)

I'm glad to see your feedback on the MVIE considering I've seen a mixed review about it just yesterday, to be honest I couldn't even believe what I saw (talking about TTL OC3D).

Anyway Memory clocking on rog platforms is insane, I don't remember your tests on X79 but I can get 2400 MHz with 4,7GHz CPU on the Rampage IV, I say pretty sick stuff.

I await your Maximus review to make my move towards Haswell  especially now that almost all of my workload has been shifted from CPU to GPUs I can just focus on the fastest quad for gaming


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## cadaveca (Jun 22, 2013)

Yeah, I watched the TTL video review. I find it highly biased.

I like ASUS a lot, and they do provide me with some killer support. However, if they do something wrong, I'll be the first to say so, so that they can fix the problem(see my bitching about their BIOS issues on Z77, which today are fixed. They are totally rocking Z77 right now, boards are rock-solid). TTL is over-reacting, and his "illustrations" of the issues with the OC panel...OMG...he doesn't even know what to use it for.

It's for VGAs, and nothing else really, but that didn't even come out of his lips. For me, this thing is invaluable, it's on my desk getting used right this second. And guess what else, other than the board, I plugged into it?:


----------



## radrok (Jun 22, 2013)

That device seems like something taken from batman's arsenal

Haha infact I imagine you with a batman hat while overclocking that memory 


What are those dip-switches on the device PCB? I can clearly see some 4pin for fans right?

Don't tell me you can hotwire your vga :OOO


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 22, 2013)

radrok said:


> That device seems like something taken from batman's arsenal
> 
> Haha infact I imagine you with a batman hat while overclocking that memory
> 
> ...



Yeah, they took all the VGA stuff off of the board so it fits in ATX form factor nicely, and put it all on this device. Since it's meant for LN2 clocking with VGAs, the HotWire functionality is all here, as well as the two switches you mentioned, for pause and slow mode. Slow mode switch is still on the board for those doing memory-only clocking, too.


4 fan headers..of course for fans for your VGAs when you got the pots mounted..one card needs two fans, one for VRM, and one for getting LN2 vapors away. Plus, the "undisclosed" black and white VRM controls points for AMD VGAs are here too, so you can just plain old hotwire a couple of matrix cards, or go full-mode-hardcore with a quad of AMD cards.

Dual k-type probe points...for the two pots you got on your two Matrix VGAs.

It's bloody brilliant, and whoever came up with this idea needs a raise. There's even some extra resistors mounted to the PCB for repairs of broken cards(W1zz needs these for his cards with broken PCIe slots), or other mods.


I need me another Matrix card. And ASUS owes me for being the only reviewer that seems to understand this thing.


 Damn reviewer newbs. 




Oh yes, I did!


----------



## radrok (Jun 22, 2013)

It's double brilliant imo because if you screw up that PCB with some soldering you don't screw up your whole motherboard, insane.

I smell shammy behind that thing btw.



cadaveca said:


> And ASUS owes me for being the only reviewer that seems to understand this thing.



I hope they learned from that mistake they made when they did not send you a RIVE!! 

I basically waited like 1 month and a half just to see your review then you said you weren't going to because they didn't send you a sample 

You are nuts and that's why we love you


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 22, 2013)

radrok said:


> It'I smell shammy behind that thing btw.


I do too, but I have to ask my ASUS rep to be sure. I don't want to give credit to the wrong person.

The one thing I agree with TLL about it is that it is a bit of a shame it's not wireless. Because of the Hotwire stuff, I understand why it's not though, so I see it as no big deal.

And it does everything it's supposed to.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 22, 2013)

I read you can use the module for even the Gene, Formula, and Hero boards. Which is pretty sweet.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jun 22, 2013)

Well long story short no Haswell for me, drove past the microcenter not enough time. Will have to wait and see later this year. Still looking forward to your MB reviews!


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 22, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I read you can use the module for even the Gene, Formula, and Hero boards. Which is pretty sweet.



Yep, It'll get plugged in to every one as I am working on the reviews of them. I also be switching up and using the ASUS card in my board reviews now, since MSI asked for their cards back this morning. Having to re-bench sucks, but such is life, it gives me the chance to try out a few things on these other boards, all of which have had BIOS updates since I used them. It's going to delay my review publishing a few days, but oh well.


----------



## radrok (Jun 22, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Formula



I'm pretty set on this one (which is still missing in action AFAIK), the only thing I'm just missing is if the integrated waterblock has G1/4 connections and the materials they used.


----------



## MetalRacer (Jun 22, 2013)

Shamino's Maximus VI Extreme OC Guide : http://m6e.weebly.com/


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 22, 2013)

radrok said:


> I'm pretty set on this one (which is still missing in action AFAIK), the only thing I'm just missing is if the integrated waterblock has G1/4 connections and the materials they used.



I'm probably going to grab the Hero. Still need to get a chip.


----------



## maijaron (Jun 22, 2013)

wow thats great stuff. 

Anybody having experience in overclocking with biostar Z87X?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 22, 2013)

maijaron said:


> Anybody having experience in overclocking with biostar Z87X?



Nope. Normally Biostar just ships stuff to me without notice, but no board has arrived from them for this platform, and my schedule is pretty full now(I was arranging hardware for board reviews back in March/April). Biostar makes some pretty decent boards for normal users, but they lack some memory overclocking ability found on basically any other brand.

It's hard for me to have any confidence in that changing since they haven't sent a board. Seems odd they didn't actually, but I also haven't talked to them in some time.


----------



## sno.lcn (Jun 22, 2013)

Getting closer...  On dry ice, but this one wants the LN2


----------



## maijaron (Jun 23, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Nope. Normally Biostar just ships stuff to me without notice, but no board has arrived from them for this platform, and my schedule is pretty full now(I was arranging hardware for board reviews back in March/April). Biostar makes some pretty decent boards for normal users, but they lack some memory overclocking ability found on basically any other brand.
> 
> It's hard for me to have any confidence in that changing since they haven't sent a board. Seems odd they didn't actually, but I also haven't talked to them in some time.



thanks for your feedback. that explains why its so tough to find any reviews or tests about that. Its really difficult to get any neutral information from testers around.


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## radrok (Jun 23, 2013)

If Dave didn't say from where he is I would've guessed Switzerland.

He's that neutral


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 24, 2013)

Mine started to act weird after I tried to OC with adaptive offset and it bsod a coupe of times..


Well then it also bsod (or freezed by loading screen) at 4.4ghz with my 100% stable fixed voltage,.. I had to load UEFI optimized defaults and left cache multi at default 39x and now it ran ok again hew:


btw my default cache is ~ 1.061v, but i think auto LLC overvolts it as bit, for example if i set 1.15v it shows 1.158v.


Im gonna leave default 39x and try 4.5ghz offest again, hopefully i'll be more lucky now.

Although I remeber i could test 4.6ghz and 42x (1.15v), weird stuff.


----------



## HammerON (Jun 24, 2013)

There is definitely a learning curve here


----------



## radrok (Jun 24, 2013)

Yeah it's not like old Ivy or SB-E = multi and vcore. 

You now need to fine tune a wide array of settings which IMO makes this platform sexy


----------



## RCoon (Jun 24, 2013)

radrok said:


> You now need to fine tune a wide array of settings which IMO makes this platform sexy



^ This. This is what I like in processors. I have way more fun when there are dozens of things to play with to get the most out of chips. IB is boring to OC, Piledriver was huge fun, and now Haswell is too.


----------



## PolRoger (Jun 24, 2013)

HammerON said:


> There is definitely a learning curve here





radrok said:


> Yeah it's not like old Ivy or SB-E = multi and vcore.
> 
> You now need to fine tune a wide array of settings which IMO makes this platform sexy





TheHunter said:


> Mine started to act weird after I tried to OC with adaptive offset and it bsod a coupe of times..
> 
> 
> Well then it also bsod (or freezed by loading screen) at 4.4ghz with my 100% stable fixed voltage,.. I had to load UEFI optimized defaults and left cache multi at default 39x and now it ran ok again hew:
> ...



I've also seen mine act up strangely...Yesterday I was actually considering a full BIOS reset but it finally seemed to return back to a more normal stable state.  My Z87 Deluxe overvolts CPU cache too... Currently set in BIOS to 1.12187v and yet the sensor reads under load at 1.151v in AI Suite III. I wish that ASUS had voltage read points on the Deluxe like they have on most of the ROG motherboards.


----------



## Womper (Jun 24, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Mine started to act weird after I tried to OC with adaptive offset and it bsod a coupe of times..
> 
> 
> Well then it also bsod (or freezed by loading screen) at 4.4ghz with my 100% stable fixed voltage,.. I had to load UEFI optimized defaults and left cache multi at default 39x and now it ran ok again hew:
> ...





PolRoger said:


> I've also seen mine act up strangely...Yesterday I was actually considering a full BIOS reset but it finally seemed to return back to a more normal stable state.  My Z87 Deluxe overvolts CPU cache too... Currently set in BIOS to 1.12187v and yet the sensor reads under load at 1.151v in AI Suite III. I wish that ASUS had voltage read points on the Deluxe like they have on most of the ROG motherboards.



Looks like others have noticed the problem too. A reboot seems to clear things up for me. I swear my i7-930 acted the same way- when it crashed due to stability, it would take a reboot or two for "known good" settings to work again.

I sure wish I knew what this +0.3v offset does to my cache voltage... come on Asus, $200 board. This better be fixed with a newer BIOS. Blurry-cam pics:

Auto everything stock:


Spoiler







XMP at 4.8GHz or something:


Spoiler


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 24, 2013)

I got all those problems when I tweaked too much, ie disabled cpu vrm fault checking, max vrm output, adjusted mobo PWM settings and few minor tweaks (mostly power saving features)..


I think my Ring bus cache stays at that 1.06v if left at default speed, auto multi and auto (fixed) voltage. I didnt check what happens under load though, but I presume its the same when I ran Aida64stress. 

If you use cacheor cpu offset and stress test Aida64 or IBT it will overvolt, for example cpu offset at +0.050v, default max voltage 1.145v, max max at IBT 1.20v. But from what I've saw no other program stresses it that much, wprime32 uses max 1.145v, just like Cinebench11.5.

---

Anyway today I tweaked again and 1st time it BSOD, 2nd time it passed >> im in win8 for ~ 45min or so mostly idle mode, just checking forums and typing a bit.

1st time 
cpu multi 45x @ adpative offset (both values at auto)
ring bus 40x @ fixed 1.10v (overvolts to 1.11v)

2nd time
cpu multi 45x @ adaptive offest (cpu +0.060v, turbo +0.005v)
ring bus 40x @ fixed 1.10v
C-states only C1 on, rest off.

Will see what happens next, although low voltage looks so nice at low cpu freq., especially cause its cooler in idle ^^

balanced power plan





high perf. power plan








EDIT:

Just ran Cinebench 11.5 and yes cpu voltage didnt pass 1.155v (adaptive offset +0.060v, turbo +0.005v) ring bus voltage also stayed ~ 1.117v max  


Although before when I edited this post I got another 0x124 (cpu adaptive offset +0.055), i was uploading photos and checking my imgur album bammm bsod, now that i raised to 0.060v its ok! I really hope this is it., gonna play some RIFT to see what's up 


EDIT2: nope 0x124 in Rift, I now raised to similar 1.17v with offset +0.070v (turbo +0.005v) >> 1.166v.. But by the looks of it i will probably need anther 0.005v by cpu so it makes 1.17v (btw its stable at fixed 1.17v).


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 24, 2013)

Still working my way through memory clocking, I just wanted to thank you guys for the continued input. I am seeing similar stuff to you guys, overall, will have an update in a few days, busy working on review stuff right now.


----------



## Womper (Jun 24, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Just ran Cinebench 11.5 and yes cpu voltage didnt pass 1.155v (adaptive offset +0.060v, turbo +0.005v) ring bus voltage also stayed ~ 1.117v max
> 
> 
> Although before when I edited this post I got another 0x124 (cpu adaptive offset +0.055), i was uploading photos and checking my imgur album bammm bsod, now that i raised to 0.060v its ok! I really hope this is it., gonna play some RIFT to see what's up
> ...



45x for me needs somewhere between +0.050 and +0.075 offset, so it sounds reasonable. Is the turbo voltage actually helping with your stability? I tried decreasing offset and compensating with turbo voltage, but it always ends up crashing at some point until I'm back to the "known good" offset anyways. Turbo voltage has been useless so far.

I'd love to know how adaptive really works. If it requires the same offset for stability, then is Adaptive with 0v turbo the same as normal "Offset" mode? Sure looks like it from my testing.

Most guides seem to indicate that Adaptive only affects overclocking regions. I interpret that as "only affects clock speed bins that are higher than stock." I'm guessing this is not the case; rather it only affects the highest speed bin (Turbo, duh). Which means you need an offset to maintain stability at speed bins between stock max and your overclock turbo. This offset, at least for me, exceeds the manual voltage I need for load anyways.

Is there a way to specify the speed bins allowed? At 4.8GHz, I see core speed all the way up and down the 4GHz range. Adaptive would work great if I could tell the CPU to run at 3.5 or 3.9GHz, and turbo only to 4.8GHz with no steps in between that require all of that offset voltage.


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## TheHunter (Jun 24, 2013)

Yeah I ended up at +0.075v which makes exactly 1.170v. 

Idk about turbo though, it looks like it doesnt make any diff., i lowered it to +0.003v for now, this is what intel says about offset vs adaptive. 

Offset





Adaptive




Fixed


----------



## HammerON (Jun 25, 2013)

New MB:


----------



## Womper (Jun 25, 2013)

After a couple of emails back and forth with ASUS tech support, they finally said that the lack of cache voltage reading is a chipset limitation. And the only reason I didn't buy the Deluxe was because I already had a wireless card, and they seemed identical otherwise. Looks like I'll just have to hope that my cache doesn't melt with a +0.25v offset.

I also reported the known issue with my Vertex LE (Sandforce 1500), and they forwarded it the engineers. No news there I guess.

Anyways, at +0.25v cache offset, 4.6GHz cache speed seems stable. I did an Aida CPU/Cache/Memory stress test for an hour with 4.6GHz core speeds (at high voltage to ensure cores are stable). Also saw no issues with a few hours of gaming. +0.20v cache offset will freeze pretty quickly, so that's my lower bound (probably around 1.3v, which will freeze quickly also under load). Note that Aida temps are low since I skipped the FPU stress test.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 25, 2013)

Womper said:


> After a couple of emails back and forth with ASUS tech support, they finally said that the lack of cache voltage reading is a chipset limitation. And the only reason I didn't buy the Deluxe was because I already had a wireless card, and they seemed identical otherwise. Looks like I'll just have to hope that my cache doesn't melt with a +0.25v offset.
> 
> I also reported the known issue with my Vertex LE (Sandforce 1500), and they forwarded it the engineers. No news there I guess.
> 
> ...


0.25V offset should give you around 1.3V, given data about known CPUs and were Cache voltage sits in relation to CPU voltage(roughly +/- 0.050V). from the info I have, that's relatively safe, but border-line on the high side.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 25, 2013)

HammerON said:


> New MB:
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130625/ROG2.jpg
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130625/ROG.jpg



You must have money coming from every orifice of your body. Just got 4770k and then the MSI GD65 board, and now this board lol.


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 25, 2013)

Or more money than sense... I hope he is into extreme cooling!


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 25, 2013)

Did anyone test adaptive voltage like so;

For example my scenario

cpu offset +0.075v
turbo offset auto (or +0.002v) >> btw I tried at auto and its the same idle voltage like by +0.002.

now

cpu offset auto (or lets say +0.002v so it doesnt over volt like crazy)
turbo offset +0.075v


would this be safe to try?


EDIT: I think i found my answer
Newegg TV: ASUS Z87 4770K Overclocking Tutorial & ...




EDIT2: nah not working, only cpu offset at 0.075 and turbo at min 0.001v works and boots. Other way around no go.


----------



## Kursah (Jun 26, 2013)

So is setting to adaptive even useful then? I was really hoping so after watching the newegg vids and buying an Asus Z87-Pro and 4770k..that's not the only reason, but from how I understood the explanation that it'll use stock voltage at stock speeds...or in reality is it just idle? Or does it scale?

Then it seems turbo offset seems useless to everyone here, which sucks...I was hoping it'd take over after 3.5Ghz for the OC voltage. I guess if that was the intention it'd be nice.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 26, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Then it seems turbo offset seems useless to everyone here



I think that might be because everyone is running all cores at the same speed. This is modifying Turbo profile even further than just upping the multis, so I would understand why there might be issues. This is one thing no OC guide covers, either. But perhaps I missed it? Did anyone see anything relevant?


----------



## springs113 (Jun 26, 2013)

Hey Dave a lil off topic but any 8gb/16gb memory kit suggestion


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## cadaveca (Jun 26, 2013)

G.Skill 2666 MHz 4x4 GB C11. Many boards incorporate T-Topology stuff that makes using 4 DIMMs better than 2, and this kit offers lots of flexibility for OC.

That said, many other 2666 MHZ C11 kits will offer the same flexibility, but without having them in my hands to play with, there's not much I can say directly.

I also have Dominator Platinum 2666 MHz 4x4 GB C10 sticks, and like them a lot as well. 

Each kit uses different ICs, and the same thing applies, other 2666 MHz C10 kits can offer the same, but 2666 C10 does come at a price premium.

I have several other kits on-hand that I am testing with now, reviews will be coming very soon.

typically, anything memory-wise affecting performance...still investigating. I'm not done yet, have all dividers to test, different stick densities, etc...and I am testing about 20 different apps. Until I finish and get my graphs made, there's not much I can say about performance yet. It takes a lot of time to run benchmarks properly, I started benching this motherboard @ about 9 am today, still testing now, and that's just basic benchmarks for me.


----------



## springs113 (Jun 26, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> G.Skill 2666 MHz 4x4 GB C11. Many boards incorporate T-Topology stuff that makes using 4 DIMMs better than 2, and this kit offers lots of flexibility for OC.
> 
> That said, many other 2666 MHZ C11 kits will offer the same flexibility, but without having them in my hands to play with, there's not much I can say directly.
> 
> ...



my discount ends in about 23 hours, i can only use 2 slots due to my aio blocking slot 1 so 2x kits please max budget 150(still haven't decided on gpu yet).


----------



## Jstn7477 (Jun 26, 2013)

Just wanted to stop by and mention that I have finally gotten my system 99% stable at 43x/42x 1.16v fixed voltage. 43x ring is unstable regardless of the voltage and 44x core needs 1.22+ volts to achieve and that is quite a waste. My chip reached about 170 BCLK (must use LC PLL for PCIe, SB PLL option doesn't work at all) but it was unstable at the same clock frequencies even at 126.5 BCLK so it's back at 100MHz. Maximum core temp is 92c under WCG with my TPC-812 push-pull and MX4 paste. Forget about IBT, hits 102c almost right away. 

I also exchanged my RAM from the two sets of mid-late 2011 CL11 2x4GB Ripjaws for some late 2012 Sniper 2x8GB CL10 1866 RAM running at 2000MHz 10-11-10-30/2T and 180 tRFC for now (default was 243). I felt the newer and higher density RAM might be a little better for my system and the speed/timing difference seemed moot.

Anyway, I think my next upgrade is going to be this Fractal Design Define XL for $99 (29% off) and free shipping. Fractal Design Define XL R2 FD-CA-DEF-XL-R2-BL Bla... After using "under $50" cases for years, I think it's about time I treated myself to something awesome.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 26, 2013)

springs113 said:


> my discount ends in about 23 hours, i can only use 2 slots due to my aio blocking slot 1 so 2x kits please max budget 150(still haven't decided on gpu yet).



$150 should get you 16 GB of 2133 or 2400 MHz. Check out G.SKill, they seem to have lower prices than most others, often. Last time I bought ram I spent $525 on 4 sticks. I have no problems paying for high-end memory.


----------



## PolRoger (Jun 26, 2013)

Womper said:


> After a couple of emails back and forth with ASUS tech support, they finally said that the lack of cache voltage reading is a chipset limitation. And the only reason I didn't buy the Deluxe was because I already had a wireless card, and they seemed identical otherwise. Looks like I'll just have to hope that my cache doesn't melt with a +0.25v offset.
> 
> Anyways, at +0.25v cache offset, 4.6GHz cache speed seems stable. I did an Aida CPU/Cache/Memory stress test for an hour with 4.6GHz core speeds (at high voltage to ensure cores are stable). Also saw no issues with a few hours of gaming. +0.20v cache offset will freeze pretty quickly, so that's my lower bound (probably around 1.3v, which will freeze quickly also under load). Note that Aida temps are low since I skipped the FPU stress test.
> 
> View attachment 51629



Is overclocking your cpu multi/cache with a 1:1 ratio really a necessary requirement for daily type usage? I find running higher cache speeds also require greater cache voltages to stabilize... What about dropping cache multi down some? I'm currently testing (dialing in) a 46x/43x overclock for possible use while "crunching" Rosetta/WCG... etc. I might even consider going lower to 41x/42x. I believe that the performance hit for running lower cache speeds is rather minimal?


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 26, 2013)

springs113 said:


> my discount ends in about 23 hours, i can only use 2 slots due to my aio blocking slot 1 so 2x kits please max budget 150(still haven't decided on gpu yet).


Unless you are benchmarking, DDR3 1600/1866 CL9. Anything else is, for the most part, wasting money as there is little to no real world performance gains going higher with a discrete GPU. Only in rare bandwidth intensive apps do you see a performance increase worth the cost difference.


----------



## radrok (Jun 26, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> $150 should get you 16 GB of 2133 or 2400 MHz. Check out G.SKill, they seem to have lower prices than most others, often. Last time I bought ram I spent $525 on 4 sticks. I have no problems paying for high-end memory.



Quick hijacking advice then, asking you memory nuts 

I need two kits of 32GB memory which one would you pick between these three?

http://www.gskill.com/en/product/f3-2400c10q-32gtx

http://www.corsair.com/en/memory-by...400mhz-c10-memory-kit-cmd32gx3m4a2400c10.html

http://www.corsair.com/en/vengeance...400mhz-c9-memory-kit-cmy32gx3m4a2400c10r.html

Don't mind the prices, I have good sources where I pay much less than retail.

I can use up to 40-50 GB of RAM when loading and rendering big scenes in 3Ds. Key is big and fast.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 26, 2013)

My new OC 4.5Ghz @ 1.170v

Cpu multi 45x, cache 41x @ 1.115v (overvolted with LLC? to 1.125v)




http://valid.canardpc.com/2844801



Also to add missing data in clubhouse chart, default cache voltage is 1.052v


A little tighter ram latency boosted my score from 9.87 to 9.91 





9.89 was with default ram latency (9-11-10-27-2T), but cache at 42 or 43x (idk atm)


@Cadaveca
Can you post your ram bandwidth in Aida64 3.0? Im really curious @ 2666mhz bandwidth, thanks


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 26, 2013)

Good luck getting that 3930K to those memory speeds... not happening in all likely hood.

That said, the Vengy CL9 stuff would be my choice. Cheapest option with the lowest CL, same speed.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 26, 2013)

radrok said:


> Quick hijacking advice then, asking you memory nuts
> 
> I need two kits of 32GB memory which one would you pick between these three?
> 
> ...



As EarthDog said...but...


Personally, because I like to OC ram, when looking at Vengeance, the "C10*R*" is what I would look at. Unfortunately, I don't have these sticks so I don't know how they behave exactly, but the entire Vengeance line-up sees the best sticks for OCing DRAM use that "R" in the SKU. All the other kits are fine, of course, it just seems to be what Corsair does.

I don't talk to Corsair too much ,so I haven't confirmed this, just something I've noticed since they launched that line-up. the 1866 C9R were the same, the Vengeance Extreme have "R", and there are other RED sticks without the "R"( although most red sticks do have it. there's just a few sets that do not, or have typos ).

I had hoped Corsair would send me a set, but I guess not. They seem to ignore me now. So buy those G.Skills, man, and support the companies that support TPU. XD.




TheHunter said:


> Can you post your ram bandwidth in Aida64 3.0? Im really curious @ 2666mhz bandwidth, thanks



Check out my most recent board review, numbers are there. Working on a memory review (two, actually) right this moment. That's wit hGTX670 SLI, AMD cards get different numbers in some benchmarks, and memory-testing rig is using ASUS HD 7970 Matrix Platinum.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 26, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> So is this Aida64 *3.0* here?
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/Z87X-OC/13.html



Yessir. I actually went and rebuilt rigs with the previously-tested boards to get those numbers, and also added in PCMark8 while I was at it. Also gave me the chance to see if BIOSes have improved int hat short time for MSI and Gigabyte, and they have.


I just finished re-testing PCMark8 too (yesterday), numbers will be different in next board review. I think I screwed up the initial runs.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 26, 2013)

Ok cool, some crazy numbers ^^


Although my read speed looks just a tinny bit faster ;P


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 26, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> This is v3.0 right?
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/Z87X-OC/13.html
> 
> Edit: nvm , I see it has very high speeds ^^



What's interesting is the huge differences between boards. Not sure what's up with that, actually, might be the T-Topology stuff on the faster boards paying off. I finished testing the ASUS Maximus VI Hero last night and it put up quite similar numbers as the Gigabyte Z87X-OC.



TheHunter said:


> Ok cool, some crazy numbers ^^
> 
> 
> Although my read speed looks a little faster ;P




X79 reports avg 60k MB/s, slightly higher latency. The bench is very different now. Sub-timing tweaks make for the huge differences with the Z87 you and I see, IMHO. What I report in board reviews for memory performance  is "out-of-the-box" performance, with just XMP enabled. Cache may play a role as well, although the impact is minimal that I have seen. CPU speed also seems to have little impact on Z87, where as with SNB and IVB the differences between stock CPU and OC to 4.6 GHz were rather pronounced.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 26, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> What's interesting is the huge differences between boards. Not sure what's up with that, actually, might be the T-Topology stuff on the faster boards paying off. I finished testing the ASUS Maximus VI Hero last night and it put up quite similar numbers as the Gigabyte Z87X-OC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah Aida64 3.0 is now multi threaded like sisoft sandra which utilizes x79's quad channel ram bandwidth, I wish z87 would have such speeds xD


----------



## Womper (Jun 26, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> Is overclocking your cpu multi/cache with a 1:1 ratio really a necessary requirement for daily type usage? I find running higher cache speeds also require greater cache voltages to stabilize... What about dropping cache multi down some? I'm currently testing (dialing in) a 46x/43x overclock for possible use while "crunching" Rosetta/WCG... etc. I might even consider going lower to 41x/42x. I believe that the performance hit for running lower cache speeds is rather minimal?



No, 1:1 ratio isn't magical. I tested the new 3dmark at 4.8Ghz with a 3.9GHz cache and a 4.6Ghz cache, but didn't see anything close to decisive- the normal test to test deviation was too large. This isn't surprising since increasing the cache speed, from the CPU's point of view, is no different than using faster RAM in principal. And we all know that most, if not all, games see very little performance improvement after DDR 1600. If a higher cache speed were required, it would really be more of a CPU design flaw/limitation.

Anyways, why am I running 4.8GHz core (+0.225v offset) with a 4.6GHz cache (+0.250v offset)? Well, I haven't noticed any significant increase in temperatures while playing with cache speed and voltage, so why not? It will be the first thing I turn down if I uncover stability issues. And if your cache can't go past 4.3GHz or whatever, then don't sweat it, it's not worth the trouble.

I also just realized that I should stop using "Sync all cores" and start using "Per Core." With that same +0.225v offset I'm going to shoot for 5GHz for 1 & 2 cores active, 4.8GHz for 3 & 4 cores active. I found that 1.41v manual is required to boot all cores sync'd at 5GHz. Damn man, Haswell is really fun to tweak. So many options, so little time.

P.S. Per your guys' suggestion I have a Swiftech H220 on the way. Let's see if it can take 4.8GHz under (non-AVX) load.


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## radrok (Jun 26, 2013)

Thanks Dave and Earthdog.

Picked the G.Skill kits 

Gonna be fun to see if I can get that speed on 64GB


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## PolRoger (Jun 26, 2013)

Womper said:


> No, 1:1 ratio isn't magical. I tested the new 3dmark at 4.8Ghz with a 3.9GHz cache and a 4.6Ghz cache, but didn't see anything close to decisive- the normal test to test deviation was too large. This isn't surprising since increasing the cache speed, from the CPU's point of view, is no different than using faster RAM in principal. And we all know that most, if not all, games see very little performance improvement after DDR 1600. If a higher cache speed were required, it would really be more of a CPU design flaw/limitation.



I'm curious to know when you tested 48x/39x... How much less ~voltage for CPU Cache did your sample require than when you are running/testing it at 48x/46x? 

I'm not really sure... But I've been thinking lately that at higher multi(s)... *successfully stablized *  Haswell overclocks are actually impacted more by increases in cache speed (ratio) than perhaps even bumping up to run higher memory speeds?



Womper said:


> Anyways, why am I running 4.8GHz core (+0.225v offset) with a 4.6GHz cache (+0.250v offset)? Well, I haven't noticed any significant increase in temperatures while playing with cache speed and voltage, so why not? It will be the first thing I turn down if I uncover stability issues. And if your cache can't go past 4.3GHz or whatever, then don't sweat it, it's not worth the trouble.



I've run higher cache speeds at 44x/45x but I'm much more aware of the "voltage tweaking" required to dial in higher cache speeds as compared to lower cache speeds while running at 46x/47x. I've done very little testing at 48x... As I'm waiting to return home when I'll be able to access my custom "420" water cooling setup.


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## cadaveca (Jun 26, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> But I've been thinking lately that Haswell overclocks are actually impacted more by increases in cache speed (ratio) than perhaps even bumping up to run higher memory speeds?



not in my findings, cache means maybe 2-5% performance boost for most apps. Some see no difference.

Memory, still working on. I really got to stop killing CPUs 

push cache voltage a touch higher than CPU voltage to go a bit further, perhaps, works for me.

I have 2933 MHz G.Skill set, review will be done very soon, these benchmarks I am doing now are the "baseline" benchmarks with other kits. Having issues getting some older sets to pass 3DMark Cloudgate Physics test (can prime, wprime, anything, just not this 3DMark and sometimes Metro:LL will crash).

5 hours in on testing, still can't get this bloody benchmark to pass at anything. I WILL HAVE SUCCESS!!!


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## PolRoger (Jun 26, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> not in my findings, cache means maybe 2-5% performance boost for most apps. Some see no difference.
> 
> Memory, still working on. I really got to stop killing CPUs
> 
> push cache voltage a touch higher than CPU voltage to go a bit further, perhaps, works for me.



I don't think I was clear with my intent on the previous post... (See below).



PolRoger said:


> I'm not really sure... But I've been thinking lately that at higher multi(s)... A *successfully stablized * Haswell overclock can actually be impacted more by increases in cache speed (ratio) than perhaps even bumping up to run higher memory speeds?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 26, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> I don't think I was clear with my intent on the previous post... (See below).



I got that. Still no difference, and yes, my chips are fully stable when testing. 

I have not tested many 3d apps yet, just all the tests you see in my memory/board reviews, but in real-world use the difference is very small.

Sure, some benchmarks show big differences.. but that's benchmarks. the same could be said of memory as well.


Does one have more impact than the other? Probably, and yeah, I would think cache would be more important as well. But really, it's going to depends on how well the cache is utilized.


----------



## Womper (Jun 26, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> I'm curious to know when you tested 48x/39x... How much less ~voltage for CPU Cache did your sample require than when you are running/testing it at 48x/46x?
> 
> I'm not really sure... But I've been thinking lately that at higher multi(s)... *successfully stablized *  Haswell overclocks are actually impacted more by increases in cache speed (ratio) than perhaps even bumping up to run higher memory speeds?
> 
> I've run higher cache speeds at 44x/45x but I'm much more aware of the "voltage tweaking" required to dial in higher cache speeds as compared to lower cache speeds while running at 46x/47x. I've done very little testing at 48x... As I'm waiting to return home when I'll be able to access my custom "420" water cooling setup.



For 48x/39x, "Auto" cache voltage rule wasn't stable. I hit the cache with 1.15v manual voltage for that. I didn't try any other voltages; it probably only needs a small bump. 48x/46x needs manual 1.35v on the cache. 47x cache needed north of 1.4v manual, and I wasn't comfortable with that. 45x cache needs a manual 1.25v. So ya, you need a small bump to cache voltage when you really push the core.

Performance wise between increasing cache speed vs DDR speed, I think it would be workload dependent. Each can offer an additional couple % improvement, independent of each other. Those % will be different for each workload.

Stability wise, who knows. Every chip is different. The cache might be the more likely candidate; I would guess that forcing 4 * 2MB caches interconnected on a ring buffer to all operate at a higher speed is probably tougher to achieve than telling the memory controller to use DDR 2800- just from a gate-count perspective.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 27, 2013)

Womper said:


> For 48x/39x, "Auto" cache voltage rule wasn't stable. I hit the cache with 1.15v manual voltage for that. I didn't try any other voltages; it probably only needs a small bump. 48x/46x needs manual 1.35v on the cache. 47x cache needed north of 1.4v manual, and I wasn't comfortable with that. 45x cache needs a manual 1.25v. So ya, you need a small bump to cache voltage when you really push the core.
> 
> Performance wise between increasing cache speed vs DDR speed, I think it would be workload dependent. Each can offer an additional couple % improvement, independent of each other. Those % will be different for each workload.
> 
> Stability wise, who knows. Every chip is different. The cache might be the more likely candidate; I would guess that forcing 4 * 2MB caches interconnected on a ring buffer to all operate at a higher speed is probably tougher to achieve than telling the memory controller to use DDR 2800- just from a gate-count perspective.



What I have been finding is that memory itself it quite important for stability, and sticks that were great on IVB.. not so much any more. Looking at other forums and such, other people are reporting the same as well, and I noticed that secondary timings for Haswell are really different, so XMP settings for some users are going to pose stability issues.

When it comes time to overclock memory, CPU differences are huge, and it seem to be playing out weird for me. The chip that boots the highest divider is not my best memory clocking chip...it's one that cannot even boot 2933 divider. If that's the CPU, the board, how the ICs and memory interact..I am not sure.

Cache performance has been something I've ALWAYS looked at. Early benchmarks of Bulldozer showing low L2 cache performance was how I knew to not expect much from those chips...cache speeds didn't support the level of performance that some were expecting.


It ahs definitely got a lot more complicated with Haswell, and having the Cache speed adjustable is very nice, since it was tied to CPU speed with 1155. And the lack of impact on performance I've noticed from this change really surprises me.


----------



## PolRoger (Jun 27, 2013)

I decided to try out the ASUS "4-Way Optimization" software in the new AI Suite III.

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...=BoaAT5TkXc4&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13723406137336

I thought it did a pretty decent job overclocking my CPU... It went from complete stock (auto/defaults) to a 4.8G(2-core)/4.7G(4-core) overclock at DDR3-2400 10-11-11-31-2T (my 4x4GB kit's XMP). 

I've gone and tweaked the ASUS settings a little more... Now running 4.8G(3-core)/4.7G(4-core) and bumped CPU Cache from 39x to 41x (may go higher) and I tighten ram to 10-11-11-28-1T (1.635v). I've also customized some of the Digi+ Power Control settings to my preference. It is running now on Adaptive vcore settings and uses ~1.275v VID for 4.8G and ~1.255v VID for 4.7G. I also thought the Fan Xpert 2 optimization and controls are pretty nifty... It is now running quieter but still with acceptable cooling.


----------



## Womper (Jun 27, 2013)

No luck with Per-Core modes. 48x on all cores doesn't boot, while Sync All Cores has been quite stable. I tried switching to Adaptive and using Additional Turbo voltage instead of an offset, but that doesn't help either. Maybe it needs Adaptive Offset or less aggressive cache speeds to do per-core.


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## cadaveca (Jun 27, 2013)

3400 MHz ram:







http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2846038


----------



## sneekypeet (Jun 28, 2013)

Just saw someone on FB posting about this, might be entertaining at the very least...http://www.scan.co.uk/shops/intel/webcast

Also since it is from Scan.UK, you may need to adjust the times a bit


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## Jstn7477 (Jun 29, 2013)

Hope you didn't start reviewing the ASRock boards yet as I just got a P1.90 UEFI update and ASRock pulled all the previous versions off their website, so this one better be good. They finally added a Vcore reading to the H/W monitor page and mine is 1.002-1.007v after the UEFI flashed (still no actual indication of what it is set to). There's also a setting called CPU OC fixed mode that supposedly disables throttling but I'm not going to use it because I don't want to fry my hot chip. Hopefully I can get a better OC now as I was literally crashing at 4.2GHz today like my chip has been degrading.


----------



## dumo (Jun 30, 2013)

Testing Asrock OCF-M board on air

4X4GB 3300 straight boot up from bios





3000 CL11, TWCL6 1T


----------



## springs113 (Jun 30, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Member Result Rankings
> 
> Help everyone else find out where their CPU ranking in the "Silicon Lottery". Results Rankings require CPU-Z screenshots of both CPU and memory pages. It's best to run a light application like SuperPi 32M to make sure CPU and Cache multis are running at their maximum soeeds for your screenshot. Please report CPU batch, clocks, the cooler used, the voltage you used for CPU, memory and, CPU cache, and anything else modified that might help others get the most out off their chips too.
> 
> ...



Hey Dave my stock Cpu voltage is 1.056, current ring voltage 1.040, OC...ring x39, 1.144...swiftech h220


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## cadaveca (Jun 30, 2013)

dumo said:


> Testing Asrock OCF-M board on air
> 
> 4X4GB 3300 straight boot up from bios
> 
> ...



NICE!!!


I'll be working on this board myself very soon.

Loving your ram clocks, too.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 30, 2013)

Wasn't the Asrock Z77 OCF pretty good with ram overclocking too?


----------



## dumo (Jun 30, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> NICE!!!
> 
> 
> I'll be working on this board myself very soon.
> ...


Thanks

As long as not CFR then latest bios will be smooth sailing.

Gskill 2933 clocked the same if not better.


----------



## springs113 (Jun 30, 2013)

dumo said:


> Thanks
> 
> As long as not CFR then latest bios will be smooth sailing.
> 
> Gskill 2933 clocked the same if not better.



Is it worth it for me to get rid of my mpower for this board?  Originally i wanted this board they just took too long to bring it out.


----------



## DOM (Jun 30, 2013)

flashed new beta bios and got 170 bclk 

http://valid.canardpc.com/2849067


----------



## dumo (Jul 1, 2013)

springs113 said:


> Is it worth it for me to get rid of my mpower for this board?  Originally i wanted this board they just took too long to bring it out.


I haven't test any Z87 MSI board, but saw good things on Cadaveca's review.

Keep your Mpower board unless you want to clock memory competitively and benching 2Ds


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 1, 2013)

springs113 said:


> Hey Dave my stock Cpu voltage is 1.056, current ring voltage 1.040, OC...ring x39, 1.144...swiftech h220



Cadaveca could you please update my post too? 


Missing data: Default ring cache voltage is 1.049v



And my new cpu OC atm 4.5Ghz @ 1.170v, Ring cache 41x @ 1.115v


----------



## DOM (Jul 1, 2013)

idk if any knows but heres the MSI BETA & MOD BIOS Section 

think you have to register to be able to dl


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 1, 2013)

Or know MSI people. LOL!


----------



## DOM (Jul 1, 2013)

I talk to that guy doesn't seem anyone from msi on there fourm does any kind of zub zero cooling


----------



## Womper (Jul 1, 2013)

DOM said:


> flashed new beta bios and got 170 bclk



Kinda curious where people are getting beta BIOS.

But good news: Z87-Plus BIOS update! Can anyone shed more light on item 4? (Z87-A also got this BIOS update). 

Z87-PLUS BIOS 1204
1. Revise help string for the German / Simplified Chinese / Korean Language.
2. Updated over voltage warning range.
3. Enhance PCIE 3.0 compatibility.
4. Enhance CPU performance when all CPU power saving functions are disabled in BIOS.
5. Enhance SATA Port Remaning function to remember SATA port name after BIOS update.
6. Enhance DRAM compatibility.
7. Enhance USB HID device compatibility on USB 3.0 ports.
8. Add new option "Memory Scrambler" under Advanced\system agent configuration\memory configuration for more DRAM tuning flexibility.

P.S. My 4.8GHz overclock started crashing in games, I'm guessing its no coincidence that it started when this heat wave hit. Good thing UPS should be dropping off my h220 tomorrow. Also, dropping my cache speed to 3.9GHz helped with stability when I used Per-Core overclocking. Anyone know the difference between 48x Sync All Cores and Per-Core with all cores at 48x? Why would Per-Core be less stable?


----------



## Ikaruga (Jul 1, 2013)

Hey, 

I just saw a simple and well written Haswell OC guide at overclockers. A month old already, so please excuse me if it was posted earlier, I missed it somehow until now. 
Nothing groundbreaking there, but I thought it could come handy for people who are about to start OC-ing their first Haswell CPU.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 1, 2013)

Ikaruga said:


> Hey,
> 
> I just saw a simple and well written Haswell OC guide at overclockers. A month old already, so please excuse me if it was posted earlier, I missed it somehow until now.
> Nothing groundbreaking there, but I thought it could come handy for people who are about to start OC-ing their first Haswell CPU.



That's just a shortened version of the ASUS guide.


----------



## Ikaruga (Jul 1, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> That's just a shortened version of the ASUS guide.



I did not want to discredit the original source, nor to post something useless. Just thought some people here might find it handy, that's all. I can delete the post if you want, or change the url if you could give me the original link. Thanks and sorry.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 1, 2013)

Ikaruga said:


> I did not want to discredit the original source, nor to post something useless. Just thought some people here might find it handy, that's all. I can delete the post if you want, or change the url if you could give me the original link. Thanks and sorry.





Nah, what I meant was that it was more geared towards ASUS products only, not that there was any issues with it.


----------



## DOM (Jul 1, 2013)

DOM said:


> idk if any knows but heres the MSI BETA & MOD BIOS Section
> 
> think you have to register to be able to dl





Womper said:


> Kinda curious where people are getting beta BIOS.
> 
> But good news: Z87-Plus BIOS update! Can anyone shed more light on item 4? (Z87-A also got this BIOS update).
> 
> ...



click on MSI BETA & MOD BIOS Section 

there on there fourm for all there mbs just have to look for it 



im having hell trying to get SLI to work on xp


----------



## Womper (Jul 1, 2013)

DOM said:


> click on MSI BETA & MOD BIOS Section
> 
> there on there fourm for all there mbs just have to look for it
> 
> ...



No luck finding something like this for Asus boards. I guess people used to get them from a FTP, but Asus shut that down.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 1, 2013)

Womper said:


> No luck finding something like this for Asus boards. I guess people used to get them from a FTP, but Asus shut that down.



kingpincooling has betas for ASUS ROG boards.

http://kingpincooling.com/forum/index.php


I have many BETA BIOSes for many boards, but I find sometimes that BETAs may not be that stable right at launch, as some are specifically geared towards clock-record attempts or memory overclocking. 

If you guys want a BETA I have, I can share, just be aware that if stuff screws up, that's on your head, not mine.  Just send me a PM, and I'll help if I can.


----------



## Jstn7477 (Jul 1, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> kingpincooling has betas for ASUS ROG boards.
> 
> http://kingpincooling.com/forum/index.php
> 
> ...



At least most if not all the Z87 boards have dual EEPROMs so there's probably a much lesser chance of bricking the board. 

Anyway, I'm testing 4.4GHz/4.15GHz 1.2v/1.17v at 125.7MHz BCLK and it has been rock solid for 27h. My Fractal Design XL R2 arrived today so I'm going to go back to the TT Water 2.0 Performer and see how it likes being mounted in the front so it isn't bombarded by 7970 heat. I think that's why my temps are so high even with my TPC-812 because my video card runs at 100% load 24/7 with the CPU and the case ambient is in the mid-high 30s Celsius even with 7 noisy fans.

I think my CPU's cache is only good for under 4.2GHz as I have tried 4.2/4.2 at 1.16v for both and the machine would still crash randomly. I think my current overclock proves that to be true, so I'll keep the cache/ring as close to 4.1GHz as I can.


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 2, 2013)

No wait sorry, i think cache ring bus is only 0.977v, can it be? 







Edit: I played with bclk a bit @ 106mhz,






 but there is a strange issue with memory speeds @ Aida64, I loose at least 6gb read and 4gb/s copy... Its like mobo puts to loose adv timings or something, weird. Happens with normal bclk 100mhz as well (2200mhz @ XMP)


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 2, 2013)

voltage...yes, you probably has "fully Manual" enabled, which sets 1.05 V or so as the lowest possible. updating your results in the ranking to reflect he lower voltage. 


AIDA issues...some dividers do this. Try new BIOS, or other divider. Not sure if stability issue...or what...still investigating this myself. BCLK increases also automatically enable different divider if needed, so that might be the thing here.


----------



## tom_mili (Jul 2, 2013)

Just started overclocking yesterday, since I am noob in this thing I started to raise my multi to 45 and raised the voltage to 1.25 V. It did boot and passed every stress test that I threw on it.

Lowered the voltage to 1.15 V and it still kicked every stress test that I threw but I experienced lock up at this voltage. I am now at 46 multi and 1.2 voltage, hopefully it will stable for 24/7 at this clock and voltage 












Everyone seems to choose 4770k over 4670k here 

And my stock core and cache voltage are 0.986 V and 1.15 V respectively.

Cadaveca, thank you for the Z87-GD65 review. You made me confident to buy this board


----------



## DOM (Jul 2, 2013)

Seems this is the max so far ran out of ln2


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 3, 2013)

Did you just "slam" into that 6ghz wall? Have you had a chance to try that same cpu on a different mobo?


----------



## dumo (Jul 3, 2013)

Asrock OCF-M ram tests

MFR





Samsung


----------



## DOM (Jul 3, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> Did you just "slam" into that 6ghz wall? Have you had a chance to try that same cpu on a different mobo?


Yes that was the max I could boot at tried 125 bclk but couldn't get 6.1 to boot to the bios but didn't try OS app oc or the bclk buttons 

And no other mb to try


----------



## springs113 (Jul 3, 2013)

DOM said:


> Yes that was the max I could boot at tried 125 bclk but couldn't get 6.1 to boot to the bios but didn't try OS app oc or the bclk buttons
> 
> And no other mb to try



Dom you're crazy but i love the effort.


----------



## Womper (Jul 3, 2013)

Got the Swiftech H220 installed yesterday. I'm a bit underwhelmed with the 6C improvement at stock ratio/auto voltage (71C vs 77C). And one of the fans is making that "ddddd" noise like it needs lube. Unfortunately, my other Zalman CNPS10x data points were from before this damn heat wave, so I'm not seeing any more than a couple degrees improvement right now at higher voltages. Is this TIM-Mate 2 stuff any good, or should I use Noctua nt-h1?

Also annoying, I'm getting freezes all the time on known-good settings. Like 39x with Auto voltage. I've that nasty feeling like something is breaking, anyone else seeing this?


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 3, 2013)

Womper said:


> Also annoying, I'm getting freezes all the time on known-good settings. Like 39x with Auto voltage. I've that nasty feeling like something is breaking, anyone else seeing this?



The SECOND you notice something weird, clear CMOS. 

In other words, yes, this can happen, sometimes it is the BIOS being a bit funny, sometimes it's the chip starting to give up its magic smoke.


----------



## springs113 (Jul 3, 2013)

Womper said:


> Got the Swiftech H220 installed yesterday. I'm a bit underwhelmed with the 6C improvement at stock ratio/auto voltage (71C vs 77C). And one of the fans is making that "ddddd" noise like it needs lube. Unfortunately, my other Zalman CNPS10x data points were from before this damn heat wave, so I'm not seeing any more than a couple degrees improvement right now at higher voltages. Is this TIM-Mate 2 stuff any good, or should I use Noctua nt-h1?
> 
> Also annoying, I'm getting freezes all the time on known-good settings. Like 39x with Auto voltage. I've that nasty feeling like something is breaking, anyone else seeing this?



Maybe you're doing something wrong and do you have the fans hooked to the headers on the mobo or on the pumps header?

I have mine hooked up to the pumps header, even though they are pwm' control, I turned up the speed on my mobo and that made a huge difference in temps.  I dropped down another 9-12 degrees now idling anywhere from 29-33 instead of 38-45


----------



## Womper (Jul 3, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> The SECOND you notice something weird, clear CMOS.
> 
> In other words, yes, this can happen, sometimes it is the BIOS being a bit funny, sometimes it's the chip starting to give up its magic smoke.



I did update the BIOS, which is kind of like clearing the CMOS. Saw the freezing before and after the update though. I'll clear it and load optimized defaults, it's still possible I changed some seemingly minor setting. I just hope the hour or two (total) I've stressed it at high voltage offsets (1.45v peak load voltage) hasn't degraded it already. I figured as long as it doesn't sit at 90-100C constantly, it'll be fine.



springs113 said:


> Maybe you're doing something wrong and do you have the fans hooked to the headers on the mobo or on the pumps header?
> 
> I have mine hooked up to the pumps header, even though they are pwm' control, I turned up the speed on my mobo and that made a huge difference in temps.  I dropped down another 9-12 degrees now idling anywhere from 29-33 instead of 38-45



I'm using the little header thing for the pump and both fans. The pump is plugged into channel 1 and the fans take two adjacent spots. The fans automatically ramp up as temperatures increase, and the motherboard has some options for fan speed. Idle temps seem good: 28-31C, which is 1-3C better than the Zalman.

I'm going to remount the water block so I can see how the TIM looks. I'll try some nt-h1 this time, which will make for a better comparison with the Zalman anyways.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 3, 2013)

Womper said:


> I did update the BIOS, which is kind of like clearing the CMOS. Saw the freezing before and after the update though. I'll clear it and load optimized defaults, it's still possible I changed some seemingly minor setting. I just hope the hour or two (total) I've stressed it at high voltage offsets (1.45v peak load voltage) hasn't degraded it already. I figured as long as it doesn't sit at 90-100C constantly, it'll be fine.



Even with temps considered, I think 1.3V might be a good safe "limit". Anything over...yeah, interesting. I wonder if VCC-in boosted itself, perhaps, if CPU is damaged.

Anyway, CPU replacement is easy if you have the Intel Tuning Plan Warranty...it's there specifically to cover these sorts of situations where we might push a bit too far.


I'm going by that 1.3 V limit myself, for vCPU, vCache, vccSA, vDIO, and vAIO. Max 1.9V for VCC-in.


----------



## DOM (Jul 3, 2013)

dumo said:


> Asrock OCF-M ram tests
> 
> MFR
> 
> ...



what kind of volts are you pushing on the samsungs?


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 3, 2013)

DOM said:


> what kind of volts are you pushing on the samsungs?



I wanna say 2.05 V? Those are some pretty tight timings. Dumo never holds back. 

Howszit going with your clocking? Did you get any tips to break 6 GHz?


----------



## DOM (Jul 4, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> I wanna say 2.05 V? Those are some pretty tight timings. Dumo never holds back.
> 
> Howszit going with your clocking? Did you get any tips to break 6 GHz?


still stuck at 6  

No haven't got any tips but seen there's been another beta bios released on the 2nd but need more ln2 XD


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 4, 2013)

DOM said:


> still stuck at 6
> 
> No haven't got any tips but seen there's been another beta bios released on the 2nd but need more ln2 XD





I'll leave it on my shelf for the moment then. 

Keep track of hours on that chip... I wonder how durable these are. I think not very.

So, I wonder if you then kill a chip and use tuning plan warranty, will Intel give you a "tough" chip, like seemed to happen with SNB-E and IVB?


----------



## DOM (Jul 4, 2013)

I never used that before and the ones I did kill not ocing sucked balls lol 

And that's to much work to keep track


----------



## radrok (Jul 4, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> So, I wonder if you then kill a chip and use tuning plan warranty, will Intel give you a "tough" chip, like seemed to happen with SNB-E and IVB?



Makes me wanna purchase that tuning plan and run my chip at 1.55v daily

Might even survive until IVB-E who knows lol.


Are the Haswells tough chips or they're squishy?


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 4, 2013)

So this week I've been able to hook up some of my custom water cooling parts and I'm now  using a thick (60mm) triple "420" rad and Swiftech Apogee XT rev.2 waterblock. 

Before when I was using a Corsair H110 I noticed some difficulty running/testing 48x and I figured that the cooling wasn't really up to the task so I didn't spend much time on it and ran mostly 45x/46x/47x.

Well now that cooling isn't really an issue... It seems that my chip may be *"gimped"* at 48x?!!

I can boot and do some benching but when trying to run a long term "crunching" Rosetta 100% load overclock... It always seems to result in random BSOD?  It seems that adjusting the various voltages... Vcore, Ring, CPU input CPU SA, etc. never resolves the issue. I think my chip has a weak component/limit... Perhaps cache or a particular core that just won't hold up at 4.8?

Current stable 47x/44x overclock:


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 4, 2013)

did you try to increase VCC-in?


----------



## dumo (Jul 4, 2013)

DOM said:


> what kind of volts are you pushing on the samsungs?


2.0V boot and final

Happy 4th!

Bios L1.32C

At least it can do some bench @ 4X4GB @ 3333


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 4, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> did you try to increase VCC-in?



Yes... I adjusted pretty much all of the major voltages... VCC-in, Cache, SA, Vcore and Dram (I did leave CPU digital/analog I/O on auto). I also adjusted/tested various cache multi down to 39x... Tried different ram kits... Hynix and Samsung as well as different dram speeds down to DDR3-1600... 4x4gb and 2x4gb configurations. Tried using 47x and raising bclk up to 4.8... No luck achieving long term stability... :shadedshu

And yet drop back to 47x or below and the chip then seems to behave and overclock in a rather normal manner?


----------



## dumo (Jul 4, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> Perhaps cache or a particular core that just won't hold up at 4.8?
> 
> Current stable 47x/44x overclock:


My good chip can only do 4.7Ghz max 4C/8T 1.35Vcore/2.0 Vccin on Thermaltake 2.0 h2o fairly stable for bench like cinebench, wprime but not prime67.
I eliminated the heat problem with -20C cooler and the chip jump easily to @ 5Ghz core/uncore 4C/8T 1.3ish vcore and imc up to 3600


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 5, 2013)

Does anyone have insight into the how CPU SA and CPU analog/digital I/O affects higher multi overclocking and or running higher memory speeds? 

So far I've pretty much left both the analog/digital I/O on auto... ASUS rules seem to default I/O at +000 for analog and +100 for digital while previously I usually just adjusted the CPU SA voltage. 

I've noticed that digital I/O corresponds to the VTT sensor on HWiNFO64 (+100=1.104v idle/1.112v load). Currently trying to tweak digital I/O to see if my chips IMC will benefit from adjustments to aide in higher multi clocks and or higher memory clocks.

Slight bump on digital I/O to +115...VTT now at 1.120v idle/1.128v load:


----------



## Womper (Jul 5, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> So this week I've been able to hook up some of my custom water cooling parts and I'm now  using a thick (60mm) triple "420" rad and Swiftech Apogee XT rev.2 waterblock.
> 
> Before when I was using a Corsair H110 I noticed some difficulty running/testing 48x and I figured that the cooling wasn't really up to the task so I didn't spend much time on it and ran mostly 45x/46x/47x.
> 
> ...



Same thing here with 48x (4.8GHz). I thought my chip was dying because it started crashing more often, but it turns out it's just random. I played one game for 2 hours straight, and then started a different game and froze every 20-30 minutes even as I increased core voltage and dropped cache speed each time. No improvement- I had to drop back to 47x. Interestingly, 49x and 50x are bootable (not benchmark-able) at manual 1.39v and 1.41v respectively, so it's strange that 48x cannot achieve long term stability regardless of voltage. The freezes at 48x don't throw a bsod 124 like low voltage normally does, so it must be something else.

New question- How much does cache voltage increase under load when using offset voltage? Does it jump up by 0.1v under AVX load like vcore?


----------



## DOM (Jul 6, 2013)

anyone know what code 78 means on MSI Mpower Max


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 6, 2013)

DOM said:


> anyone know what code 78 means on MSI Mpower Max



Is that info not in the manual? I think some manuals have all the codes and diagnostic and trouble shooting steps.


----------



## DOM (Jul 6, 2013)

checked didn't find it


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 6, 2013)

DOM said:


> checked didn't find it



I get that from bad cache settings....


or BCLK pushed too far.

Not on MPowerMax though, still haven't played much with that. 


You got BIOS v132?


----------



## DOM (Jul 6, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> I get that from bad cache settings....
> 
> 
> or BCLK pushed too far.
> ...



Yeah 132

But even on the 2nd bios shows 00 so think its a gonner XD


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 6, 2013)

What do you guys prefer for stability testing for Haswell? I think I'm done with Prime95. Takes so long to get any info in terms of system stability.


----------



## dumo (Jul 6, 2013)

DOM said:


> Yeah 132
> 
> But even on the 2nd bios shows 00 so think its a gonner XD


Killed my 1st. retail chip @ launch day 

It was stuck @ 78 which means cpu half dead with pci or pch lanes burnt


----------



## dumo (Jul 6, 2013)

Found low v chip with Thermaltake 2.0 









IMC not too bad






[/URL]


----------



## HammerON (Jul 6, 2013)

Nice dumo


----------



## radrok (Jul 6, 2013)

Wow that's an awesome 4770k, dumo.



MxPhenom 216 said:


> What do you guys prefer for stability testing for Haswell? I think I'm done with Prime95. Takes so long to get any info in terms of system stability.



I'm still waiting for a board but I'll probably use LinX AVX enabled.

It does good for SB-E and I'm sure it does good for Haswell, if it passes 90% memory with all threads for atleast 1 hour then you won't "probably" find anything that makes your system crash with lower loads.


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 8, 2013)

Going to pick up a MVI Hero and 4770K tomorrow and join the club. Will post some results in the next few days.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 8, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> What do you guys prefer for stability testing for Haswell? I think I'm done with Prime95. Takes so long to get any info in terms of system stability.



I start with wPrime 1024M. It's good to point out pretty weak OC's quickly without risking any sort of OS corruption or similar issues.

Then I run AIDA64's built-in stability test, with default settings, noting voltage. This cause the voltage boost that many reviewers report, but not the high temperatures. This is a pretty good stability test for most users needs and I think accurately represents high workloads that most users will see, and is higher than most games, too(but not all).

Then I run AIDA64's stability test with only the FPU option enabled. This is a load that some users will experience(only if strictly using AVX2 to the highest possible), and causes those high jumps in power and heat that many reviewers have reported.


That's JUST for the CPU cores. I use other tests for other parts of the chip.


----------



## tom_mili (Jul 8, 2013)

Well, I am on my journey to 5 GHz mark today. All attemps have been in vain 
Also cranking up the voltage up to 1.4 V didn't solve the stability problem. Thermal could be a problem for my AIO cooler, though.
I tried the 1.25 strap with 40x but still no luck, won't even boot into windows and the black screen of overclocking failure bla bla came and wanted me to enter the bios again.
I can't even boot into window when using the 1.25 strap when everything is set auto.
I think I must be doing something wrong using the strap.

My max stable overclock is 4.8 GHz @ 1.25V. I was so happy to know I still have a pretty good chip 

http://img.techpowerup.org/130708/4.8 1.25 V.png

I am sorry Cadaveca for the VRING value, it was actually 1.05V stock. I was probably drunk or sleepy or even both when writing that  
It was 3 AM if I remember correctly


----------



## Kursah (Jul 8, 2013)

Well got back from camping yesterday afternoon and slapped on my brand new Noctua U14S. Sweet sweet cooler! I love it! At 4.2GHz and 1.200v I am idling at the upper 20's and lower 30's on this cooler and stormy Monday. I ran about 10 minutes of AIDA Stress and peaked at the upper 60's to very low 70's. But spent most of the load/stress time in the short test in the 50's and 60's though which made me pretty happy. That and stopping the test, instant drop to the 30's.

I did initially try for 4.5ghz at 1.200v, it would POST and then lockup with a 124 bsod just after booting into windows. Same with 4.4. So I figured I would try 4.2, and at 1.200v it seems dead stable and super cool. So SWEET I gained an easy 700MHz OC without trying very hard. But I want to see if I can hit that 4.4-4.5 mark and make it attainable with my air cooling. If not..oh well! It's way faster than my i5-760 oc'd to 4.0 was at even stock, now with a 200MHz lead, and more efficient operation, it screams.

Oh and one more thing I noticed you guys were posting early on in this thread:

First Boot Voltage:
CPU - 1.072v
Cache - 1.031v
CPU Input: 1.792v

Those were the ones I wrote down...I can get more and reset the BIOS if ya need. 

I left memory at an easy 1600 speed, I had been running XMP 2133 and it POSTed fine at 4.5 just wouldn't get into windows so that was the first thing I backed off remembering they say to do the CPU first then add the memory speed to your OC to see if it stays stable. Here's a pic of my first stable Haswell OC. Not great, but I'm still happy! I'm not looking for WR's, I'm looking for a nice smooth running gaming rig that can pull off a nice OC on air.

It starts here  :


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 8, 2013)

And i found another sweet spot too

personal best Cinebench11.5 score yet @ 4.5Ghz






cpu 45x @ 0.085v offset
cache 40x @ 1.10v


2nd best so far with 9.92
cpu 45x
cache 41x @1.12v


----------



## Womper (Jul 9, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> What I have been finding is that memory itself it quite important for stability, and sticks that were great on IVB.. not so much any more. Looking at other forums and such, other people are reporting the same as well, and I noticed that secondary timings for Haswell are really different, so XMP settings for some users are going to pose stability issues.



I've been trying to smoke this BSOD out, no luck so far. Core and cache speed and voltages have no effect.

1. Loaded Optimized Defaults, no BSOD so far.
2. Loaded Optimized Defaults, then changed AI Tuner to XMP mode, and set memory to its 2133 XMP profile. Didn't touch anything else, so I'm running stock voltage and frequency. Occasional BSOD during boot, guaranteed BSOD during Prime95 blend.
3. Reduced DDR to 1600, keeping XMP timings. Three consecutive blue screens during boot. Eventually booted, but didn't have time for stress testing.
4. Reduced DDR to 1333, keeping XMP timings. No BSOD so far, even during P95 blend.

And yet, I completed a 3 hour Aida64 stress test at 4.7GHz core, 4.6GHz cache, and DDR 2133. And then BSOD 124 every 20 minutes in Borderlands 2 no matter how much voltage I shove into the core and cache.

Recommendations? Maybe increase system agent voltage? VCC IN? Suspect bad RAM or incompatible timings?


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 9, 2013)

VCCSA, maybe VCC SIO/DIO.


I suspect incompatible XMP profile. got a few sets here that work great on 1155, and are crap on Haswell, a few that won't even boot with XMP enabled, too.

Be careful with VCC-in. I suggest no more than 1.9V. Others, too, try to stay under 1.2V for VCCSA, VCC -SIO/-DIO


----------



## Womper (Jul 9, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> VCCSA, maybe VCC SIO/DIO.
> 
> 
> I suspect incompatible XMP profile. got a few sets here that work great on 1155, and are crap on Haswell, a few that won't even boot with XMP enabled, too.
> ...



Thanks. Assuming the XMP profile is the problem, then can I just manually tweak the timings to be more Haswell friendly? I paid good money for these Dominator Platinums, I'll be annoyed if I can't utilize them at CL 9.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 9, 2013)

Womper said:


> Thanks. Assuming the XMP profile is the problem, then can I just manually tweak the timings to be more Haswell friendly? I paid good money for these Dominator Platinums, I'll be annoyed if I can't utilize them at CL 9.



I do understand, although, those sticks were meant for IVB, not Haswell. Corsair has great warranty service in my experience, if you got 1.5 V DIMMs, those seem less problematic.


And yes, set timings manually, but there are two secondaries that show no "live settings" in ASUS BIOS, those two are determined by other timings with Haswell, and are very different than past platforms.

First things first though, be sure to clear CMOS properly, with battery removal method. BIOs are currently corruptible, seem common to all brands, I think Intel MEI may need an update from its current version.


----------



## Womper (Jul 9, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> I do understand, although, those sticks were meant for IVB, not Haswell. Corsair has great warranty service in my experience, if you got 1.5 V DIMMs, those seem less problematic.
> 
> 
> And yes, set timings manually, but there are two secondaries that show no "live settings" in ASUS BIOS, those two are determined by other timings with Haswell, and are very different than past platforms.
> ...



Thanks again. These are 1.5 V DIMMs. If I understand correctly, if these secondary timings are causing problems then all I can do is use different memory sticks?

The issue has persisted across 4 BIOS updates and a CMOS clear using the jumper method, so I'm not suspecting BIOS corruption. Unless my motherboard is broken.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 9, 2013)

All OEMs seem to be having some issues with Samsung-based DIMMs (which yours are).


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 9, 2013)

Womper said:


> Thanks again. These are 1.5 V DIMMs. If I understand correctly, if these secondary timings are causing problems then all I can do is use different memory sticks?
> 
> The issue has persisted across 4 BIOS updates and a CMOS clear using the jumper method, so I'm not suspecting BIOS corruption. Unless my motherboard is broken.



Is it XMP v1.3?

My 4x4Gb 1.65v Crucial Balistix Elite is v1.3 and runs fine at default 2133mhz CL9, I even lowered it to 1T.


What is your ring bus cache multi? Did you try lower ie 40x @ 1.11v?


----------



## Womper (Jul 10, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Is it XMP v1.3?
> 
> My 4x4Gb 1.65v Crucial Balistix Elite is v1.3 and runs fine at default 2133mhz CL9, I even lowered it to 1T.
> 
> ...



It is XMP 1.3. 1T and 2T make no difference, and neither does 2133 vs 1600. I'm running stock settings, which is 37x core turbo (when 4 cores active) and 39x cache, and still bluescreening during Prime95 blend or on boot.

I bumped up SA, DIO, AIO, and VCC-In by 0.050v, so if I still BSOD's I think it falls on the RAM.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 10, 2013)

Womper said:


> It is XMP 1.3. 1T and 2T make no difference, and neither does 2133 vs 1600. I'm running stock settings, which is 37x core turbo (when 4 cores active) and 39x cache, and still bluescreening during Prime95 blend or on boot.
> 
> I bumped up SA, DIO, AIO, and VCC-In by 0.050v, so if I still BSOD's I think it falls on the RAM.



What board do you have? Sorry if you have already mentioned it previously in the thread. A guy was saying at OCN that he has the Gigabyte OC Force board with no issues with the 1.5v Samsung based Dominator Platinum's on his rig. Can clock them to 2600+ claiming stable.


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 10, 2013)

New member






Have the day off so want to learn the new bios and get some overclocking started.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 10, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> What board do you have? Sorry if you have already mentioned it previously in the thread. A guy was saying at OCN that he has the Gigabyte OC Force board with no issues with the 1.5v Samsung based Dominator Platinum's on his rig. Can clock them to 2600+ claiming stable.



If you take a look on forums that have benching teams, there are many mentions that Haswell can be funny with ram. Personally, I think board may play a large role in how well ram clocks, but BIOS is an important factor as well. The guy that said he has no issues has Gigabyte's high-end OC board, and it is possible that "lesser" boards may not get such good clocks.

I've noticed my own "oddities" when it comes to ram, too. I am not the only one, either, this review that was posted by hookielumnus on overclockers of this G.SKill kit shows a 2933 MHz kit that is slower than a 2666 MHz kit. In his conclusion, he blames the ram.


http://www.overclockers.com/gskill-tridentx-ddr3-2933-memory-kit-review


He did manage to get 3330 MHz as an OC. But benchmarks for "stock" were very low. My set hit a bit over 3400 MHz, which I posted a couple of pages back. 


I have this same set, review is waiting to be published. What I noticed, myself, is that although the kit performs "poorly" @ 2933, if you drop the divider down to 2800 MHz, performance increases. So to me, that's the board giving the low score, or something specific to that 2933 MHz divider. It's not the ram's fault.


Hookielumnus obviously didn't notice that lower-divider performance is better. I also noticed that this kit, with one of my CPUs, won't boot at all @ 2933 MHz, in the ASUS Maximus VI Extreme. Take the memory and that same funky CPU and install into the ASRock Z87 Extreme6/AC, and the kit boots right up.

Therefore, memory clocking is not as "black and white" as it has been with past platforms. I need to do way more testing myself before I can come to any solid conclusions. But what I CAN say, is that from the hardware I have on-hand, clocking with Samsung can be difficult. It might be down to individual CPUs, boards, or BIOSes, or some weird mix of all three.




Grnfinger said:


> New member
> 
> [url]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff267/Grnfinger/stock_zps5bf0c287.png[/URL]
> 
> ...



Welcome to the club, man. I'd love to add you to our chart, take a look ath the 4th post for the info I am looking for there and if you can provide that, it'd be much appreciated!


----------



## Womper (Jul 10, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> What board do you have? Sorry if you have already mentioned it previously in the thread. A guy was saying at OCN that he has the Gigabyte OC Force board with no issues with the 1.5v Samsung based Dominator Platinum's on his rig. Can clock them to 2600+ claiming stable.



I've the Z87-Plus, and my Dominator Platinums are listed in the Qualified Vendors list for it. Once I rule out VCC-SA, VAIO, VDIO, and VCC-In, I'll contact Asus tech support. I think I have a pretty good CPU, so I'd rather exhaust other options before blaming it.

@cadaveca- In your experience, can RAM issues/oddities cause 0x124's? Is the 0x124 BSOD kind of an umbrella for all things unstable?


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 10, 2013)

Womper said:


> @cadaveca- In your experience, can RAM issues/oddities cause 0x124's? Is the 0x124 BSOD kind of an umbrella for all things unstable?



Typically, it's just a general catch-all, yes. It can be CPU, cache, or sometimes ram...but ram is the least-likely scenario. However, when clocking up both CPU and ram, when both speed are tested stable separately, this error can appear, for sure. 

What I have found, is that if you get 0x124, and then increase vcore, and it changes error to 0x101, then CPU is the likely culprit. I also watch POST code display for slow-downs in memory training at POST, you sometimes see hesitation @ 40 or there-abouts when memory might be a bit funky.

I nearly always boot into memtestx86+ when doing such testing. Where errors appear, and how they appear can indicate where the problem is. I really need to get myself an RSTPro for memory testing.


----------



## dumo (Jul 10, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> I've noticed my own "oddities" when it comes to ram, too. I am not the only one, either, this review that was posted by hookielumnus on overclockers of this G.SKill kit shows a 2933 MHz kit that is slower than a 2666 MHz kit. In his conclusion, he blames the ram.
> 
> 
> http://www.overclockers.com/gskill-tridentx-ddr3-2933-memory-kit-review
> ...


QFT

There still settings on this particular single sided MFR chip which need to be explore.
Actually, with its high MHz advantages this type of ram can be competitive too.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 10, 2013)

This whole issue with Samsung memory seems very much based on the board and BIOS. But it doesn't add up when there are a ton of BIOS released for multiple vendors that you would think would improve Samsung DIMM memory compadibility. I am assuming vendors know about the issues???


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 10, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> This whole issue with Samsung memory seems very much based on the board and BIOS. But it doesn't add up when there are a ton of BIOS released for multiple vendors that you would think would improve Samsung DIMM memory compadibility. I am assuming vendors know about the issues???



I have told ASUS, Gigabyte, and MSI about the issues I encountered. So yes, they know, in some aspect. 

Because it is still early in the release, and others are reporting issues on forums, that I have seen, identifying the actual problem's cause might not be so easy.

Could simply be a CPU-IMC-quality thing. Could be the individual sets. Could just be BIOS.

Anyway, A little bit of research will provide you with lots of info about memory clocking ,already pointed you to a thread on XS about ASRock boards and Samsung DIMMs, and that thread did indicate that settings used on past platforms may be sub-optimal for performance.


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?286755-How-to-OC-Samsung-with-ASRock-on-z87-OCF



> Resist the urge to tighten the settings "You know" will be faster for now.


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 10, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> And i found another sweet spot too
> 
> personal best Cinebench11.5 score yet @ 4.5Ghz
> http://i.imgur.com/KfcKyPH.png
> ...



It took some fiddling but I was able to match your Cinebench score using a 4x4GB Samsung rev.D kit. I tweaked voltages a tad from your settings and also tried cache at 40x/41x/42x 

Here is my run @ 45x/42x:



cadaveca said:


> If you take a look on forums that have benching teams, there are many mentions that Haswell can be funny with ram. Personally, I think board may play a large role in how well ram clocks, but BIOS is an important factor as well. The guy that said he has no issues has Gigabyte's high-end OC board, and it is possible that "lesser" boards may not get such good clocks.
> 
> I've noticed my own "oddities" when it comes to ram, too.
> 
> Therefore, memory clocking is not as "black and white" as it has been with past platforms. I need to do way more testing myself before I can come to any solid conclusions. But what I CAN say, is that from the hardware I have on-hand, clocking with Samsung can be difficult. It might be down to individual CPUs, boards, or BIOSes, or some weird mix of all three.



I'm finding higher overclocks at higher dram speeds (especially full bank) with Samsung to sometimes be rather challenging.

I don't have any 4x4GB high speed Hynix kits to test at this time just 2x4GB kits using CFR and MFR. I also have an older 4x4GB 2133 BFR kit.

I've also noticed that the 2133 divider seems to get some pretty nice bandwidth numbers in AIDA even when compared to AIDA results running at higher dram speeds?  Here is a Samsung rev.D 4x4GB kit with the same Bios settings... @ 2133 vs. 2200:


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 10, 2013)

Yep, for sure some dividers are funky.

I like to avoid those 2000, 2200, 2600, 2933 dividers myself, seems better to use lower divider and use BCLK to get the ram speed up. hookielumnus's review I linked above greatly illustrates why. Not sure why he blames the DIMMs though, maybe he's seen something I haven't...I am not sure.

I feel like I got to try more chips before I can suss out more tweaks currently, had some hardware die that is preventing me from doing reviews right now, have to wait for replacements, so I'll get some work done on the clocking guide and other stuff the next few days.


----------



## Jstn7477 (Jul 10, 2013)

I enjoy BCLK overclocking as well. Makes more sense to me to have lower multipliers based on a higher base clock than vice versa. 

My current OC:
4400 core/4275 cache 35x/34x* 125.8MHz BCLK at 1.22v (bad chip, even though starting vcore was 1.007v.)
Memory: 2*8GB G.Skill Sniper 1866 CL10-11-10-30/2T @ 2012MHz (1:6 ratio) @ 1.55v

I think I have plans to get some Tridents or other high speed DDR3 soon, but can't shell out $150 just for RAM at the moment. This chip will do 166 BCLK but the RAM dividers are laughable at that point, and I'm either stuck with crappy sub-1800MHz clockspeed or 2200 which my RAM cannot do period.


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 10, 2013)

Grnfinger|4770K/L312B341|1.024/1.021|4500MHz|1.25|45|1.021|1866|Corsair H100|Asus MVI Hero

Currently at 4500 @ 1.25vcore ( 30 min prime so far) heat might be an issue she spikes for a few seconds to 85c from time to time.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 10, 2013)

Grnfinger said:


> Grnfinger|4770K/L312B341|1.024/1.021|4500MHz|1.25|45|1.021|1866|Corsair H100|Asus MVI Hero
> 
> Currently at 4500 @ 1.25vcore ( 30 min prime so far) heat might be an issue she spikes for a few seconds to 85c from time to time.



Nice chip.  ADDED!!!

I notice that you vCPU and vCache are very similar, and you can run CPU multi and cache multi at same value. Most other chips do not have such similar voltages, and most report issues trying to run 1:1. I wonder...


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 11, 2013)

I haven't touched the cache volts. 
Asus set it at 1.021 and it seems to work with manual vcore set to 1.25 and off set 0.856

Just ran 3D11 http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/6848547


----------



## springs113 (Jul 11, 2013)

Grnfinger said:


> I haven't touched the cache volts.
> Asus set it at 1.021 and it seems to work with manual vcore set to 1.25 and off set 0.856
> 
> Just ran 3D11 http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/6848547



I see you finally have things up and running, nice specs.


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 11, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> It took some fiddling but I was able to match your Cinebench score using a 4x4GB Samsung rev.D kit. I tweaked voltages a tad from your settings and also tried cache at 40x/41x/42x
> 
> Here is my run @ 45x/42x:
> 
> ...



Cool, so you're fine at 42x cache @1.075v? I never tried that low yet 


Here are my specific default timings 





And I noticed the same read/copy drop at 2200mhz.. Weird stuff, thanks Cadaveca for that extra info.




@dumo

Nice, only 1.248v at 5Ghz? Is that lower voltage possible at lower multi + higher Bclk 125mhz?


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 11, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Cool, so you're fine at 42x cache @1.075v? I never tried that low yet
> 
> Here are my specific default timings
> 
> ...



Actually that 42x cache was just while running/benching Cinebench. Later I was testing with HyperPi 32M and I found it was not fully stable... Freezing and or BSOD. Now running 45x/41x vcore (+.80) and cache (1.10v) which completes HyperPi 32M... with a Cinebench score of 9.95.

I'm finding HyperPi 32M to be pretty good for dialing in and testing cache/imc settings.


----------



## Womper (Jul 11, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> Actually that 42x cache was just while running/benching Cinebench. Later I was testing with HyperPi 32M and I found it was not fully stable... Freezing and or BSOD. Now running 45x/41x vcore (+.80) and cache (1.10v) which completes HyperPi 32M... with a Cinebench score of 9.95.
> 
> I'm finding HyperPi 32M to be pretty good for dialing in and testing cache/imc settings.



Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try HyperPi. I'm trying to stomp this random BSOD, if I could just get it to consistently fail on something. It hasn't happened since I bumped up all non-core/cache voltages: VCC-In = 1.85v, VCCSA +0.1v, VAIO +0.1v, VDIO +0.1v, DRAM 1.55v.


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 11, 2013)

@ Womper

This generation chip seems quite "squirrely" sometimes?? It makes me wonder whether I might have pushed things a little too far voltage wise... But to be honest I don't really think I did anything too aggressive while learning/testing on Haswell. I've uninstalled AISuite III and I'm going to do a fresh Windows install before trying to push clocks and memory some more.


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 11, 2013)

I tried 2400mhz, ram ratio 100:133 and CL10 but it just doesnt want to run so good like 2133mhz

Write got a nice 5gb/s boost, but read and copy still below default..








Mobo auto loosen adv the timings a bit, but its not so big to make such a big bandwidth diff., no?







So the best would be to use 2133mhz and raise Blck until I reach 2400mhz?


----------



## v12dock (Jul 11, 2013)

I am having BSOD issues with Crucial Ballistix Tactical 1600mhz 8-8-8-24 BSOD when XMP enable. I am not sure if its isolated to the motherboard


----------



## Womper (Jul 11, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> @ Womper
> 
> This generation chip seems quite "squirrely" sometimes?? It makes me wonder whether I might have pushed things a little too far voltage wise... But to be honest I don't really think I did anything too aggressive while learning/testing on Haswell. I've uninstalled AISuite III and I'm going to do a fresh Windows install before trying to push clocks and memory some more.



Yeah, when I get a bluescreen it seems to be more likely to bluescreen the next boot, until I get it stable again with conservative settings. I believe I also saw this behavior with Nehalem, although with Nehalem it only bluescreened on bootup maybe once in that scenario, and then it'd clear up. With Haswell, sometimes it takes 4 or more attempts to get stock settings and DDR @ 1600 to not blue screen at the Win7 boot logo.

I was wondering if I had pushed it too much also; with a 0.225 offset, voltage goes to 1.45 during AVX loads. I just hit it with prime95 for a few seconds just for fun, and throttled instantly.



v12dock said:


> I am having BSOD issues with Crucial Ballistix Tactical 1600mhz 8-8-8-24 BSOD when XMP enable. I am not sure if its isolated to the motherboard



So you swapped the memory out to clear up the issue? And in what situations does it BSOD?


----------



## v12dock (Jul 11, 2013)

Womper said:


> Yeah, when I get a bluescreen it seems to be more likely to bluescreen the next boot, until I get it stable again with conservative settings. I believe I also saw this behavior with Nehalem, although with Nehalem it only bluescreened on bootup maybe once in that scenario, and then it'd clear up. With Haswell, sometimes it takes 4 or more attempts to get stock settings and DDR @ 1600 to not blue screen at the Win7 boot logo.
> 
> I was wondering if I had pushed it too much also; with a 0.225 offset, voltage goes to 1.45 during AVX loads. I just hit it with prime95 for a few seconds just for fun, and throttled instantly.
> 
> ...



I am not sure if the actual memory is bad. I was having increasingly stability issues, no overclock only enable the XMP profile. I decided to reformat and was unable install windows errored out at 73% I removed the crucial memory and was able to completely install. I am using Gskill right now with XMP enabled and overclocked


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 11, 2013)

springs113 said:


> I see you finally have things up and running, nice specs.



yep, just learning the bios and all it's settings
Hope to push the overclock a little further this weekend


----------



## Womper (Jul 12, 2013)

Solved the startup BSOD issue. The blue screen flashed so quickly I could never read it, but I finally caught it with my camera: it's a 0x7B stop error that occurs due to an inaccessible boot device. Surprise! I have one of the affected old Sandforce SSDs as my boot drive! It seems as though it gets aggravated when I tinker with BIOS settings.

With that mystery solved, I can focus on the 0x124 that still randomly pops up even when I'm not overclocked.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 12, 2013)

Womper said:


> I can focus on the 0x124 that still randomly pops up even when I'm not overclocked.



Change VRM settings for your board from "Thermal Balance" to "Current Balance". VRM is probably overheating.


Just figured this out with another user today, 0x124 that only happens at stock, using a watercooler. With other user, other coolers worked fine, but there were air coolers.


Didn't you get an H220 or similar recently?


----------



## petedread (Jul 12, 2013)

Batch#: L316B291 4770K on a G1 Sniper 5.
With my limited knowledge and experience I have currently got 4.3@ 1.216v temps peak at 83c but hover around 75 in Aida 64. Pretty much everything on auto. I have played with some different settings a little bit a few days ago. I think I had something like 4.4Ghz with 1.250v and my old Samsung green at 2133, 1.5v and 10.10.10.26 1t. The temps got to high though. I need to get into more detail with the cpu volts but I don't know what any of the settings mean in the bios, like, what is 
K OC?
CPU PLL selection?
Filter PLL level?
Looks like I haven't got a bad chip but it certainly isn't as good as some of the chips I 've seen on other forums. I need almost 1.4v to get 4.5/6ghz and the temps go up to fast.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 12, 2013)

petedread said:


> K OC?
> CPU PLL selection?
> Filter PLL level?



K OC adds some multis to non-K chips. Dunno how well it works, maybe good.


CPU PLL Selection choose where the BCLK PLL is sourced from, CPU, or the PCH(chipset). Filter PLL level should offer "high/low" options, again, for BCLK. These are more for ram clocking, since you can get most any frequency at CPU with multis and minor BCLK OC.

Check the 4th post for the stuff we're looking for to try to figure out if a chip is good or not. If you can give all those details, that'd be great!


----------



## Womper (Jul 12, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Change VRM settings for your board from "Thermal Balance" to "Current Balance". VRM is probably overheating.
> 
> 
> Just figured this out with another user today, 0x124 that only happens at stock, using a watercooler. With other user, other coolers worked fine, but there were air coolers.
> ...



I believe I observed this BSOD when I was using the Zalman hsf, but it would definitely make sense. But, I haven't seen a BSOD since increasing input, SA, A/D IO, and RAM voltages, so it might just be that Auto voltage rules are too low on one or more of these. I've been at 4.7GHz again to maximize my chance of BSOD, need more testing before I call it done.

And this H220 is pretty nice- with a more reasonable ambient temp of ~70F, it didn't throttle during 1.5 hrs of Aida64 with core @ 1.374v. Idle temps were at 21-25C- can't beat that.

Also- can one of you who owns a fancier motherboard tell me how cache voltage varies using an offset? Does voltage jump up and down depending on idle/load/AVX load?


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 12, 2013)

Womper said:


> Does voltage jump up and down depending on idle/load/AVX load?



Yep, and multi scales with it too(unless you manually change minimum multi). Haven't seen AVX loading make a difference, but I was not really looking. I'll keep an eye on that though, let you know after I work through a few more boards which might give me a chance to see if it is or not, or maybe some boards do, some don't...


----------



## petedread (Jul 12, 2013)

Some screens just for you guys. I don't know how to see what my cach is running at, at the moment so I'm not going to be added to the list just yet. But maybe this info could be useful.
Batch#: L316B291 4770K on a G1 Sniper 5.
4.5@ 1.332v, Corsair H70.
Samsung Green, stock 1600mhz. OC'd to 2133mhz 10.10.10.27 1t. 1.500v
100.00mhz base clock. Everything else auto.
Aida 64
Temps to high at these volts to use this oc. But it boots and runs Aida for as long as I dare.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 12, 2013)

your cache is the NB frequency in the second screen shot.


----------



## petedread (Jul 12, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> your cache is the NB frequency in the second screen shot.



Lol cheers. 
4000mhz, so if, for example, I'm running the CPU at 4.5ghz and having stability problems, I could lift the cach to say 4400, from what I've read somewhere.


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 12, 2013)

I fail to post if I push my ram farther than 1866

These sticks are supposed to be able to handle 2000MHz easily


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 12, 2013)

Grnfinger said:


> These sticks are supposed to be able to handle 2000MHz easily



Seen anyone do it with Haswell and those sticks? Memory clocking on Haswell can be rather unforgiving.


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 12, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Seen anyone do it with Haswell and those sticks? Memory clocking on Haswell can be rather unforgiving.



yes 2 sites have this kit running at 2000+
I'm still learning the bios so I hope to have it nailed down this weekend now that the work week is done


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 12, 2013)

petedread said:


> Lol cheers.
> 4000mhz, so if, for example, I'm running the CPU at 4.5ghz and having stability problems, I could lift the cach to say 4400, from what I've read somewhere.



Are you using auto cpu voltage? Because 1.33v for 4.5ghz is overkill imo. I bet you would need max 1.20v.


Gigabyte is known to overvolt top much by auto cpu voltage, I had the same problem with my old Gigabyte x48-DS5. I saw another user with similar Gigabyte z87 mobo reporting the same, he was at default 39x and 1.25v.:shadedshu


----------



## petedread (Jul 12, 2013)

No, I'm manually dialling in the CPU volts. After days and days of reading and falling asleep at the computer I think I have started to understand what most of the bios options are for. So I'm about to go back into the bios and try a few things. Although I think I have just got a poor chip.


----------



## v12dock (Jul 13, 2013)

Turns out my memory is actually bad. Tired on P55 computer and still blue screened I will have to RMA


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 13, 2013)

I have these sticks
http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=76775&vpn=PV38G186C9KRD&manufacture=Patriot

Can anyone recommend some better choices for clocking. I guess I got some dud's
I have 200 to play with


----------



## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 13, 2013)

Just a bit of info from my testing it seems Heatpipe coolers on Haswell perform better depending on the orientation I need to do some more testing

but   heatpipes oriented  left to right works better than up and down.

so on a traditionally mounted motherboard = is better than ll

so far this has been true on the Argon AR03 and Hyper 212,  the AR03 i saw about 2'C drop Hyper was only 1'C drop but it was a constant and held after multiple tests. Depending on the cooler results might be better or worse. Ill have more info later.

Crazyeyesreaper|4770k/L312B334|Stock Volt:1.016/1.008|OC CPU|OC CPU Voltage|OC Cache/Ring Multi|OC Cache/Ring Voltage|2133|misc|notes


----------



## petedread (Jul 13, 2013)

Best I can stable at the moment is 4.4ghz@ 2.24v. HT enabled. Uncore 4100. Ring bus 1.100.  Mem @2133, 1.5v.
Would I likely get higher stable OC if I lower memory to 1866?


----------



## dumo (Jul 13, 2013)

Stable enough for 24x7 rig @ 3250 4X4GB


----------



## petedread (Jul 13, 2013)

How do I see what volts the ring bus is using at stock? I have just installed HWmonitor, is it shown in there? If so where?


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 13, 2013)

petedread said:


> How do I see what volts the ring bus is using at stock? I have just installed HWmonitor, is it shown in there? If so where?



Try AIDA64, or look in BIOS under monitoring section. Cache voltage scales with load, too, so using OS to measure can give erroneous readings.

I'll have the G1.Sniper5 on my testbench soon, haven't look at the options there yet. Had some hardware die, so cannot test boards ATM.


----------



## petedread (Jul 13, 2013)

Are these the numbers I should use? These are the defaults but they are higher than when idle in windows.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 13, 2013)

petedread said:


> Are these the numbers I should use? These are the defaults but they are higher than when idle in windows.



Yes, that's what I meant. And yeah, higher in BIOS, that's why you need to look there. Unfortunately, it seems that required information is not listed.


----------



## petedread (Jul 14, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Yes, that's what I meant. And yeah, higher in BIOS, that's why you need to look there. Unfortunately, it seems that required information is not listed.


Yeah, was just checking that they are the right numbers.


----------



## petedread (Jul 14, 2013)

petedread. 4770K, L316B291. Stock volts, cpu 1.128,cache 1.764:
OC CPU clock 4.600 (46x100mhz), cpu 1.360v, cash/ring multi 35, cash/ring 1.050v.
Mem OC 2133mhz, 1.500v. Corsair h70.
I stop Aida after 5 minutes because temps are peaking at 100c.
(I think the bios is reading the stock cache/ring volts wrong. One page shows that the volts are set to 1.050v but CPU status page shows 1.764 which is higher than when overclocked)


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 14, 2013)

petedread said:


> One page shows that the volts are set to 1.050v but CPU status page shows 1.764 which is higher than when overclocked



That 1.764 V will be the CPU VRM input voltage, not the cache voltage. That's why it is so high. 1.8V is way too much for other voltages, and would damage the chip (I know this by experience  and no, that's not the dead hardware I was referring to a few posts back )


----------



## petedread (Jul 14, 2013)

It must be, because the cpu vrm is set to 1.800 stock. The cache/ring is 1.050v stock.


----------



## jobaloba (Jul 14, 2013)

petedread said:


> It must be, because the cpu vrm is set to 1.800 stock. The cache/ring is 1.050v stock.


What is cache/ring?


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 15, 2013)

what's is the average vcore you guys need for 4600MHz

I see some need very little and other require a very large amount for 4500 ( im guessing some are using auto volts) I have 1.25 set now and cant seem to get it stable a bump or 2 in vcore is not helping any.


----------



## petedread (Jul 15, 2013)

Grnfinger said:


> what's is the average vcore you guys need for 4600MHz
> 
> I see some need very little and other require a very large amount for 4500 ( im guessing some are using auto volts) I have 1.25 set now and cant seem to get it stable a bump or 2 in vcore is not helping any.


I don't think there is a average, it's all over the place. Some are getting 4.6@ 1.220mhz, some 1.3, personally I need 1.390v to be OCCT stable @ 4.5ghz lol. But it is unlikely you will be as unlucky as me.
I've had to abandon the multiplier and set 125x33 for 4.125ghz@ 1.205v, this puts the cache at 4000mhz.
Just keep going up in increments of 5 or 10mhz until you become stable.


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 15, 2013)

Mine needs 

1.154v @ 4.4Ghz
1.176v @ 4.5Ghz
~ 1.216v @ 4.6Ghz
~ 1.26v @ 4.7Ghz

I didnt test further, I need push pull on H90 ^^


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 15, 2013)

Grnfinger said:


> what's is the average vcore you guys need for 4600MHz
> 
> I see some need very little and other require a very large amount for 4500 ( im guessing some are using auto volts) I have 1.25 set now and cant seem to get it stable a bump or 2 in vcore is not helping any.



How is it crashing?


*10 dead Haswells so far, boys*. I'm ready to write up the OC guide! If it passes W1zz's approval, it'll be on the front page soon, working on it today, gotta capture some screenshots and need to make some phone calls to confirm some info, first, and some reps aren't in office yet, it's still early A.M. hours in Cali.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 15, 2013)

Wait, you killed 10 haswells for an ambient overclocking guide? The heck!?!!!


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 15, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> Wait, you killed 10 haswells for an ambient overclocking guide? The heck!?!!!



Nah, not for the guide.  Just pushing, in general. But the info for running into this has helped in a big way for me.


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 15, 2013)

Looking forward to that OC guide


----------



## Fourstaff (Jul 15, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> How is it crashing?
> 
> 
> *10 dead Haswells so far, boys*. I'm ready to write up the OC guide! If it passes W1zz's approval, it'll be on the front page soon, working on it today, gotta capture some screenshots and need to make some phone calls to confirm some info, first, and some reps aren't in office yet, it's still early A.M. hours in Cali.



Who is footing the bill for all those Haswells?


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 15, 2013)

Fourstaff said:


> Who is footing the bill for all those Haswells?



Intel, TPU's motherboard OEM partners, and myself. 

And let me tell you, I'm not upset about those deaths, one bit. Not one bit; they actually leave me smiling.


----------



## Fourstaff (Jul 15, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Intel, TPU's motherboard OEM partners, and myself.
> 
> And let me tell you, I'm not upset about those deaths, one bit. Not one bit; they actually leave me smiling.



Psychopathic murderer


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 15, 2013)

Fourstaff said:


> Psychopathic murderer



To me, this proves that OC is back.

Recent info about "cheaper" Intel boards now having OC features enabled furthers this, too.


----------



## dumo (Jul 15, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> *10 dead Haswells so far, boys*


Wow, thats a lot

What codes on post led? 

If it stuck @ "78" or "71" mean cpu half dead with pci or pch lane burnt. 

"00" means totally rip.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 15, 2013)

dumo said:


> Wow, thats a lot
> 
> What codes on post led?
> 
> ...



I've seen all of those.


----------



## HammerON (Jul 15, 2013)

Nice job Dave
Look forward to your guide


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 15, 2013)

dumo said:


> Wow, thats a lot
> 
> What codes on post led?
> 
> ...


Ive come back from all of those before... 

The 00 is scary though, LOL!


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 15, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> Ive come back from all of those before...
> 
> The 00 is scary though, LOL!



You weren't pushing enough.


And "00" is an empty code.



71/78 is generally BCLK, or cache.


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 15, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> How is it crashing?
> 
> 
> *10 dead Haswells so far, boys*. I'm ready to write up the OC guide! If it passes W1zz's approval, it'll be on the front page soon, working on it today, gotta capture some screenshots and need to make some phone calls to confirm some info, first, and some reps aren't in office yet, it's still early A.M. hours in Cali.



BSOD when windows starts to load.
I have solved the issue with MORE cache volts
Bios is full of settings I'm still learning, now you say you've gone through 10 chips.
Maybe I'll park it here at 4500 till you post your OC guide and see if were walking down the same road or not.
I've bought the insurance but would rather not play the rma game with Intel.


----------



## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 15, 2013)

I am sitting at 4 os installs and a system that fails to run at stock but can run overclocked no problem. So far not impressed with my haswell experience.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 15, 2013)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> I am sitting at 4 os installs and a system that fails to run at stock but can run overclocked no problem. So far not impressed with my haswell experience.



Noob.




Find the setting the gets changed when OC is enabled.


----------



## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 15, 2013)

yea yea wise ass.


----------



## dumo (Jul 16, 2013)

Test cfr air, following Duck San settings on OCF-M









M6I next


----------



## HammerON (Jul 16, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Noob.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





crazyeyesreaper said:


> yea yea wise ass.


----------



## Ponteral (Jul 16, 2013)

*Haswell*

Hi Guys. I wanna tell you my experience. I had 4770k BATCH L313B846, and it was total crap..

At load in stock clocks it had 1.169V. my max was 4.4 GHz at 1.344V.

I loaded in win at 4.5Ghz, 4.6Ghz, nope. So I decided to send it back, and look for another. I'm looking now batch L310. I mean those - L310B487, L310B488, L310B491 and L310B492, which seem to be the best. 

Please if you know about other good batches, let me know, Thank you.



dumo said:


> Test cfr air, following Duck San settings on OCF-M
> 
> [url]http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7628/93d.png[/URL]
> 
> ...




What's the batch of this CPU? If I had something like that....


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 16, 2013)

You RMA'd a CPU because it didnt overclock well????????????????

Batches mean almost nothing these days. I have seen the DB at hwbot and we have one compiling data from other sites as well, and there doesnt seem to be a correlation. Where do you see a positive trend in those batches?


----------



## Ponteral (Jul 16, 2013)

*Intel*

No it wasn't RMA. In my country if you buy from internet. You have right to return the goods in 14 days without reason. So I only used my rights.

Yeah. On HWboot, and also on overlock.net. Good batches are L310 and L312. but more in L310, specially Batches L310B400-500. But as you said.

Someone has L313 batch and has OC about 4.8 with great voltage. I wasn't too lucky


----------



## Sasqui (Jul 16, 2013)

dumo said:


> Test cfr air, following Duck San settings on OCF-M
> 
> M6I next



Translation?


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 16, 2013)

Sasqui said:


> Translation?



Hynix CFR-based DIMM, using DUCK's settings(DUCK is one OC'er you don't want to ignore).



Maximus VI Impact nExt.


----------



## Womper (Jul 16, 2013)

This talk of batches reminds me, I should update my line of the chart on page 1.

7.	Womper	4770K/L312B318	1.008 V/-	4700(47x100 MHz)	1.350 V	x46	~1.30v	2133 MHz C9	Swiftech H220 	ASUS Z87-PLUS/Intel EPP.

4.8GHz seems to be an elusive beast (requires disproportionately high voltage, at least when combined with the decent/aggressive cache and memory settings I attempted). Like 1.375v manual voltage will boot but crash during load testing. At 4.7GHz, I can boot at a mere 1.28v and similarly crash during load. Really? 0.1v difference for 100MHz?

24/7 I'm at 4.7GHz core/4.6Ghz cache with +0.160v and +0.300v offsets respectively. Using XMP tuner mode with DDR at 2133, all other settings left to whatever Load Optimized Defaults set them to.

P.S. cadaveca, you are probably correct about the VRM overheating- the ambient temps are cooler now, and like magic the bluescreens stopped. Swapping the hsf out for the H220 during the heat wave compounded the issue probably. If I see issues pop up when ambient temps are high, I'll know what to set in the BIOS...thanks.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 16, 2013)

WHen people talk voltages, specifically offsets, it would help to know the base voltage to start with so we know the end voltage. Or just use the end voltage as the method, adapative/override, doesnt really matter.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 16, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> WHen people talk voltages, specifically offsets, it would help to know the base voltage to start with so we know the end voltage. Or just use the end voltage as the method, adapative/override, doesnt really matter.



Yeah, that's part of the reason I ask for stock voltages for cache and CPU.

Although I'm more interested to see how stock relates to OC potentials.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 16, 2013)

is i5 Haswell also welcome here Dave? ^^


----------



## Sasqui (Jul 16, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Hynix CFR-based DIMM, using DUCK's settings(DUCK is one OC'er you don't want to ignore).
> 
> 
> 
> Maximus VI Impact nExt.



I feel old, lol.  I wonder what kind of cooling went with all those acronyms.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 16, 2013)

puma99dk| said:


> is i5 Haswell also welcome here Dave? ^^



Yep, all Haswells allowed, even non-K chips, since it seems that might get some OC too when suing the right board.



Sasqui said:


> I feel old, lol.  I wonder what kind of cooling went with all those acronyms.




probably phase-change cooler.


----------



## Sasqui (Jul 16, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> probably phase-change cooler.



I'm surprised by the low voltage, even with sub zero cooling.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 16, 2013)

Sasqui said:


> I'm surprised by the low voltage, even with sub zero cooling.



Not me, look at his cache volts, that's quite a bit higher.


----------



## Womper (Jul 16, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> WHen people talk voltages, specifically offsets, it would help to know the base voltage to start with so we know the end voltage. Or just use the end voltage as the method, adapative/override, doesnt really matter.



End voltage is too ambiguous due to its dependency on the workload. I think everything posted to the chart should be static voltage settings required for stability. For me, 1.35v is the static voltage needed for a stable 4.7GHz, including AVX workloads. 1.325v on a 4.6GHz cache, although I don't have a cache voltage reading to see what that manual setting actually yields.


----------



## Sasqui (Jul 16, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Not me, look at his cache volts, that's quite a bit higher.



Ahhh... I should leave this clubhouse, I'm getting Haswell'd


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 16, 2013)

Can't wait to join in the conversation and share my results when my Asus Hero comes and 4770k.


----------



## petedread (Jul 16, 2013)

New bios new lower stock volts. 0.991v. from 1.128v. Another bios had me 1.110v

                       "what i found was cpu frequency is still king!"
http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/28465-haswell-cpu-ring-ratio-tests-and-results/


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 16, 2013)

Womper said:


> End voltage is too ambiguous due to its dependency on the workload. I think everything posted to the chart should be static voltage settings required for stability. For me, 1.35v is the static voltage needed for a stable 4.7GHz, including AVX workloads. 1.325v on a 4.6GHz cache, although I don't have a cache voltage reading to see what that manual setting actually yields.


So not knowing at all is less ambiguous ? The difference between 1.325 and 1.35 is a lot different than an unknown value in stock voltage (I have seen .95 load to 1.175 personally) +.XXv.

Give the actual load voltage on what is STABLE across all 'workloads'.


----------



## Womper (Jul 16, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> So not knowing at all is less ambiguous ? The difference between 1.325 and 1.35 is a lot different than an unknown value in stock voltage (I have seen .95 load to 1.175 personally) +.XXv.
> 
> Give the actual load voltage on what is STABLE across all 'workloads'.



Let me rephrase what I said: end voltage is ambiguous, therefore report your static voltage setting because it is the least ambiguous. I originally thought reporting offset voltages under load would be comparable, but as I learned:



cadaveca said:


> Nope, but you're using an offset voltage instead of a consistent one. For initial testing, it's better to test with a set voltage, find stability, and then take that knowledge to apply the offset.
> 
> 
> When the multi changes, the voltage changes, as each multi has it's own VID associated with it. As well, there are other conditions that can adjust that VID, so rather than dealing with that for testing, simply avoiding that is best.
> ...



So, for the chart on the front page, I say:
I am stable at 4.7GHz core/4.6GHz cache using the following core/cache static voltage settings: 1.35v static core voltage, 1.325v static cache voltage.


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 17, 2013)

dumo said:


> Wow, thats a lot
> 
> What codes on post led?
> 
> ...



Hey Dumo,

What does half dead cpu really mean??... Your chip will try and post, attempt to go through memory training but will still hang with a "78" or a "71" code? Where as totally dead chip means no posting... Just straight to a "00" code? What happens to half dead cpu? Do they ever come back?


----------



## dumo (Jul 17, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> Hey Dumo,
> 
> What does half dead cpu really mean??... Your chip will try and post, attempt to go through memory training but will still hang with a "78" or a "71" code? Where as totally dead chip means no posting... Just straight to a "00" code? What happens to half dead cpu? Do they ever come back?


It won't come back, just stay "78" stuck @ pci initialization. Tested on 2 boards same results.


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 17, 2013)

It seems that my chip will no longer run/boot at 2666 memory speed using 4x4gb (full bank) with CR 1 (1T)? Recently it always seem to get stuck in memory training boot loop or hang with a "78" code or something similar even when running at stock settings. :shadedshu 

However, if I drop back to CR 2 it will still boot/run 2666 4x4gb and it does seem to run 2x4gb 2666 with CR 1. I think this pattern may now also hold true at 2600 speeds but when dropping back down to 2400/2133... the chip still runs/maintains CR 1 @ full bank.


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 17, 2013)

^
Yeah that's what I've read for G.Skill Trident CL10 2400mhz.

It will oc to ~ 2520mhz anything higher needs 2T.


----------



## Ponteral (Jul 18, 2013)

*bacth*

Does anybody experience of L312B350? It seems as awesome chip on other forums. Thx


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 18, 2013)

Get off the batch thing people... it really is a crap shoot.


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 18, 2013)

Ponteral said:


> Does anybody experience of L312B350? It seems as awesome chip on other forums. Thx



I have a 312B341, it's seems decent so far but I haven't pushed it beyond 4500MHz



EarthDog said:


> Get off the batch thing people... it really is a crap shoot.



That was not true for the Q6600 or the E8400
certain batches were proven better clockers than others


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 18, 2013)

Also true. But I wasnt talking about those CPUs in a Haswell thread. 

But since Sandybridge and especially Ivybridge, it has meant little to nothing.


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 18, 2013)

yeah you make a valid point


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 21, 2013)

Previously I hadn't spent much time testing the two working bclk straps (125/167) but I'm liking this current overclock at 4.66Ghz DDR3-2666. Not a single random BSOD once dialed in either. Makes me think that some of my random BSOD's that occur when dialing in and running 2133/2400 full bank @1T under long term stress might be due to BIOS/platform immaturity for the 1T command rate? 

~21hrs. "crunching" Rosetta 100% load:


----------



## Womper (Jul 22, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> Previously I hadn't spent much time testing the two working bclk straps (125/167) but I'm liking this current overclock at 4.66Ghz DDR3-2666. Not a single random BSOD once dialed in either. Makes me think that some of my random BSOD's that occur when dialing in and running 2133/2400 full bank @1T under long term stress might be due to BIOS/platform immaturity for the 1T command rate?
> 
> ~21hrs. "crunching" Rosetta 100% load:



I still get the random BSOD 0x124 every now and then under game loads or stress loads. I set VRM to "Current Balance" and added a 200mm fan on the side of my case to put a breeze over the motherboard, but still hit the BSOD. I'm going to revisit additional VCC SA, DIO, AIO, and Vin voltages, I believe the sandforce-related BSOD invalidates my previous trials.

I'm seeing a loose correlation between this BSOD and higher ambient temps; are there any other temperature sensitive power delivery components I can tweak from the BIOS? Maybe this is just platform immaturity, or maybe my RAM wasn't properly qualified by Asus.


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 22, 2013)

^^^ Hah! It was wishful thinking on my part... 

It froze/hanged around ~24hr mark and since then I've actually had a few random BSOD. I've been tweaking the settings and I'm now looking to try and pass 32/40/48hrs.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 22, 2013)

Grnfinger said:


> I have a 312B341, it's seems decent so far but I haven't pushed it beyond 4500MHz
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the 4770k that is coming today is the same batch number as yours. But yeah since Sandy Bridge, batch numbers met literally nothing. It is just a big silicon lottery at this point. Back in the day though, batch numbers meant a lot.


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 23, 2013)

Womper said:


> I still get the random BSOD 0x124 every now and then under game loads or stress loads. I set VRM to "Current Balance" and added a 200mm fan on the side of my case to put a breeze over the motherboard, but still hit the BSOD. I'm going to revisit additional VCC SA, DIO, AIO, and Vin voltages, I believe the sandforce-related BSOD invalidates my previous trials.
> 
> I'm seeing a loose correlation between this BSOD and higher ambient temps; are there any other temperature sensitive power delivery components I can tweak from the BIOS? Maybe this is just platform immaturity, or maybe my RAM wasn't properly qualified by Asus.



In digi+ keep all at auto, and maybe manually select LLC to 5 or 6.

try lower ring cache bus. And if you use offest turn off adv c-states (c3,c6,c7) 

I had similar bsod in cpu bound games (Bf3 64player, Rift, MaxPyne3, Grid2,..), it kept happening at adaptive cpu offset voltage (max so far cpu +0.085v, turbo +0.004v and still).

Im now at standard offset (+0.090v) and so far so good, but this additional boost looks bad.. I mean it can boost to 1.25v for longer times by GPU caps viewer, using cpu openCL 1.2 cpu-postFX test,. Otherwise its at 1.176v

But I didnt notice this extra voltage boost in games yet, hopefully it stays this way


----------



## Grnfinger (Jul 23, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> the 4770k that is coming today is the same batch number as yours. But yeah since Sandy Bridge, batch numbers met literally nothing. It is just a big silicon lottery at this point. Back in the day though, batch numbers meant a lot.



Would be interested in seeing how your chip performs


----------



## radrok (Jul 23, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> batch numbers meant a lot.



I remember that waaaaay before even the manufacturing site meant (costa rica etc) a ton


----------



## Womper (Jul 24, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> In digi+ keep all at auto, and maybe manually select LLC to 5 or 6.
> 
> try lower ring cache bus. And if you use offest turn off adv c-states (c3,c6,c7)
> 
> ...



So...I just crapped a brick after getting to the bottom of this Adaptive Voltage mode. I've been wondering all this time why the "Additional Turbo Voltage" field would bluescreen even if I set the field's value the same as I would the "Offset" field.

Here it is: http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33680-Beginner-Adaptive-Voltage-4pin-CPU-power/page2

"I feel so dumb right now. It was a language barrier that caused all my trouble. The way the Adaptive mode is worded in the UEFI confused me. It said "Additional Turbo voltage" so I thought it meant I had to ADD voltage to the default VID, eg: It was 0.992V so in the "Additional Turbo" box I wrote 0.183 --- and that limited the VCORE to 0.183 lol."

Am I the only one in this thread who feels similarly dumb/soiled?

I know what I'm trying when I get home...


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 24, 2013)

Womper said:


> So...I just crapped a brick after getting to the bottom of this Adaptive Voltage mode. I've been wondering all this time why the "Additional Turbo Voltage" field would bluescreen even if I set the field's value the same as I would the "Offset" field.
> 
> Here it is: http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33680-Beginner-Adaptive-Voltage-4pin-CPU-power/page2
> 
> ...



Hm, so lets say I want 1.178v
normal 
cpu offset +0.090v

adaptive
cpu offset +0.085v
turbo offset +0.005v
total offset +0.090v

In both cases its ~1.178v, but for some reason adaptive isn't stable. Although I didnt try cpu offset +0.090v and turbo +0.005v yet 


btw is this turbo offset that boosts to 1.25v in normal offset mode? I think by adaptive it didnt go so high


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 24, 2013)

Grnfinger said:


> Would be interested in seeing how your chip performs



Dave seems to believe it's on the upper end of average.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 24, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Hm, so lets say I want 1.178v
> normal
> cpu offset +0.090v
> 
> ...



nice voltage, but when i touce offset mode no matter if it's offset or adaptive mode i get over 1.2xxv


----------



## Womper (Jul 24, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Hm, so lets say I want 1.178v
> normal
> cpu offset +0.090v
> 
> ...



For Asus boards, "Additional turbo mode voltage" isn't an offset. It's the absolute load voltage you want to see. If you want 1.178v, then for adaptive mode you should set:

Cpu offset +0.000v (or +0.001v if that's the lowest option)
Additional turbo mode 1.178v
total 1.178v

With this setting, you will see 1.178v for non-AVX loads, and ~1.278v for AVX loads (whenever the CPU is above 3.5GHz in these cases). When you aren't running anything, your CPU will be at 3.5GHz or less and use stock voltages.

Last night a had a little time to convert my offset voltage to adaptive. For my 4.7GHz core speed, I changed from a +0.16v offset voltage to a +0.001 offset and 1.264v Turbo mode voltage. For the 4.6GHz cache speed, I changed from a +0.3v offset to a +0.001 offset and 1.325v Turbo mode voltage. Here's what I noticed:
* Peak non-AVX load voltage is virtually identical between +0.16v offset and Adaptive
* Peak AVX load voltage might be slightly higher- I'm not sure, but I think it was +0.006 higher using Adaptive. Not really a big deal.
* Using adaptive, the CPU maintains the ~1.264v load voltage for all frequency bins between 3.5GHz and 4.7GHz. This differs from using a +0.16v offset, where the voltage decreases for frequencies less than the 4.7GHz max, or for lighter workloads at 4.7GHz. In theory, this could increase stability in the scenarios where an intermediate bin like 4.4GHz gets too low a voltage and crashes, or when 4.7GHz needs the full 1.264v even though the workload is light.

So far, Adaptive mode seems just as stable as using an Offset. It's nice seeing ~0.7v when idling at 800MHz.


And I'm still looking for someone to find out whether Cache voltage jumps up by +0.1v during AVX loads like the Core voltage does when using Offset or Adaptive.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 24, 2013)

I'll check for you this afternoon. Thanks for adding that excellent info.


Been swamped here lately(literally, under water), many things I wanted to get done got dropped completely. Today is the first day I'm finally back on track. I got a G.Skill kit in my memory testing rig, once it's done the current Memtest runs, I'll check about cache voltage for you.


----------



## petedread (Jul 24, 2013)

Ponteral said:


> Hi Guys. I wanna tell you my experience. I had 4770k BATCH L313B846, and it was total crap..
> 
> At load in stock clocks it had 1.169V. my max was 4.4 GHz at 1.344V.
> 
> ...


My chip is almost exactly the same. Except my max OC is 4.3x100mhz @1.224v (CPU-Z) cache 4.3 @1.100v, no mem OC. (testing 2133 up from 1600 rated ram).
1.35v for 4.4 means I hit a thermal wall instantly.

Something strange going on, I can't game or run Vally with out PC crash. With or with out OC.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 24, 2013)

petedread said:


> My chip is almost exactly the same. Except my max OC is 4.3x100mhz @1.224v (CPU-Z) cache 4.3 @1.100v, no mem OC. (testing 2133 up from 1600 rated ram).
> 1.35v for 4.4 means I hit a thermal wall instantly.
> 
> Something strange going on, I can't game or run Vally with out PC crash. With or with out OC.



Lower cache multi to 39



Womper said:


> And I'm still looking for someone to find out whether Cache voltage jumps up by  0.1v during AVX loads like the Core voltage does when using Offset or Adaptive.


CPU Cache voltage is dynamic with multi, when default settings are used. Many boards are setting higher-than-default cache speeds and setting voltage to 1.15V this is part of the speed boost some boards see, and is also responsible for slightly elevated temperatures, too. Cache voltage does *not* seem to boost up like CPU voltage under heavy AVX loading.

Very few boards have "default Intel settings", so what your BIOS does on your board(in general) is going to depend on quite a few different factors.


----------



## Jstn7477 (Jul 24, 2013)

My chip does 4.4GHz @ 1.22v fixed vcore, BUT the cache does 4.3GHz @ 1.23v. I cannot get the cache/ring stable at 4.4GHz even with 1.27v cache voltage. 4.5GHz core needs ~1.28v vcore which is way too much for me.


----------



## Womper (Jul 24, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> CPU Cache voltage is dynamic with multi, when default settings are used. Many boards are setting higher-than-default cache speeds and setting voltage to 1.15V this is part of the speed boost some boards see, and is also responsible for slightly elevated temperatures, too. Cache voltage does *not* seem to boost up like CPU voltage under heavy AVX loading.
> 
> Very few boards have "default Intel settings", so what your BIOS does on your board(in general) is going to depend on quite a few different factors.



Excellent news, I really appreciate your time! With a 1.325v or +0.3v offset, I was worried these AVX loads might jump it into the 1.4v range. Glad that's not the case.

Now I'm wondering what the Auto setting is doing for Min Cache Ratio. I want to be sure that it's not forcing full cache speed and thus turbo voltage constantly. Does CPU-Z's NB frequency value show the cache slowing down when appropriate?


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 24, 2013)

Womper said:


> Does CPU-Z's NB frequency value show the cache slowing down when appropriate?



Yes, it does, but as I mentioned, many settings in BIOS seem to affect what happens. Getting proper "stock" settings can be torturous, so I'm rather hestitant to say "YES IT WORKS", when I know for many, it won't.


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 25, 2013)

Last time when I monitored cache frequency (north bridge on pic*) it stayed at fixed multi, min at auto didint change it. 





By min 35x; max 42x, it lowered to min 35x in idle state


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 25, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Last time when I monitored cache frequency (north bridge on pic*) it stayed at fixed multi, min at auto didint change it.
> 
> View attachment 51984
> 
> ...



Perfect example of why I was a bit leery of saying cache multi scaling was working. Thanks!


----------



## Womper (Jul 25, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Last time when I monitored cache frequency (north bridge on pic*) it stayed at fixed multi, min at auto didint change it.
> 
> View attachment 51984
> 
> ...



Beat me to it, I was going to measure after setting a min value in the BIOS. I'll be interested in the stability ramifications.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 26, 2013)

Womper said:


> Beat me to it, I was going to measure after setting a min value in the BIOS. I'll be interested in the stability ramifications.



For boards that offer that option, that works usually, but not all boards do.


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## dumo (Jul 29, 2013)

M6I tests

Ram @ 3500+


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## Kursah (Jul 30, 2013)

Well starting to get frustrated by my damn 4770k.

It seems no matter what now, what was stable a month ago is shit now. I've cleared CMOS, started over. Seems I keep getting the 124 BSOD code which generally means more CPU voltage needed. I'll admit I have a crap clocker. I had been pushing for 4.4GHz (without going past 1.35v) stable on air out of it the last few weeks  at an hour here and there when I had time. I get back from a week-long backpacking trip and decided hell with it, I'll go back to my stable 4.3GHz @ 1.23v...hell half the time it'll BSOD going into windows now let alone a stress test. And this is after the overall ambient temps are around 10F cooler than a month ago.

I just don't get it...but seeing as I bought my chip thru Newegg I think my time's up for any kind of RMA there...I did get the Intel OC warranty...but the chip hasn't failed. It's just a crap clocker. At first it was fun and exciting, now it's just pissing me off. I'm disappointed I can't attain a stable 800MHz OC on a currently for the socket top-end K series chip. This is the worst clocking Intel chip I've seen since my P4. Though it's performance is great, and with that I am happy...part of why I made this build was for overclocking.

I am just getting frustrated with the inconsistent experience this chip has given me since I got it. I figured maybe it was the MB bios. Updated to most recent. I have tried my RAM down to 1600..didn't change stability. My cache is at 39 and 1.20v set in BIOS atm. Input Voltage is 1.90v at the moment. I have the CPU voltage at 1.25v.

Sorry for the rant...I was hoping to finally be able to post some more concrete stable results...but my chip just seems to get worse and worse. What was stable at 1.20v needed 1.23v...now 1.25v. And it all comes off of trying to play some Wargame: AirLand Battle before I hit the sack and my last known wPrime/BF3 stable OC with Adaptive Voltage is now unstable.

I dunno...should I even try to have intel RMA it? Will they without it being dead? I guess I'll have to look into it some more.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 30, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Well starting to get frustrated by my damn 4770k.
> 
> It seems no matter what now, what was stable a month ago is shit now. I've cleared CMOS, started over. Seems I keep getting the 124 BSOD code which generally means more CPU voltage needed. I'll admit I have a crap clocker. I had been pushing for 4.4GHz (without going past 1.35v) stable on air out of it the last few weeks  at an hour here and there when I had time. I get back from a week-long backpacking trip and decided hell with it, I'll go back to my stable 4.3GHz @ 1.23v...hell half the time it'll BSOD going into windows now let alone a stress test. And this is after the overall ambient temps are around 10F cooler than a month ago.
> 
> ...



I don't know much about Haswell, but at first I was thinking you may be running into a memory issue, but now that you need more voltage for what used to be stable for you, sounds like you may have ran into a case of degradation, or what you thought was stable, never actually was.


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## petedread (Jul 30, 2013)

Mine seems random and inconsistent. But it's probably just me being a noob.
Anybody using Samsung Green with Haswel?


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## Kursah (Jul 30, 2013)

Ya Mx I was wondering if it's degredation myself. But maybe you're right and it was never really all that stable. But it wasn't this unstable prior and it has just annoyed me at this point. Again thankfully the performance is good, but the OC-ability of this chip has turned out to be much more of a hassle to find than a K chip should be imho. Wish I had money to buy another one and sell this one.

I will say the Asus board has been pretty awesome thus far, I love the bios and featureset.


----------



## Womper (Jul 30, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Ya Mx I was wondering if it's degredation myself. But maybe you're right and it was never really all that stable. But it wasn't this unstable prior and it has just annoyed me at this point. Again thankfully the performance is good, but the OC-ability of this chip has turned out to be much more of a hassle to find than a K chip should be imho. Wish I had money to buy another one and sell this one.
> 
> I will say the Asus board has been pretty awesome thus far, I love the bios and featureset.



I'm still running into crashes. It'll go for days without issue and then decide to freeze on me or throw a 0x124 several times in one night. I'm relying on Auto rules for everything besides core/cache voltage, so I'm wondering if those rules aren't quite tuned right. I also wonder if it's the motherboard overheating, but if a 200mm fan isn't good enough, then the motherboard is the problem.

I've also fought this sandforce incompatibility all along waiting for a BIOS fix, who knows how many bluescreens or freezes it caused. I imaged over to a newer drive, so hopefully that issue is buried. I'm going to run at 4.7GHz core, 4.5Ghz cache with a 1.34v adaptive voltage on both for a while and see if I find any crashes. 4.8GHz core/4.6GHz cache ran for several days on these settings, so running 100MHz less should be stable if it truly just needs more voltage for long term stability.


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## petedread (Jul 30, 2013)

@Womper, I bet there isn't another retail chip like yours anywhere on the plannet!


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## petedread (Jul 30, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Wish I had money to buy another one and sell this one.



I thought about selling mine and buying another but, I recon the odds of getting a better one are terrible. Only slightly better odds than buying a lottery ticket. Well, saying that, it looks like most of the guys on this forum have got good chips. But most of the guys on UK forums haven't got so lucky. So here in the UK the odds look pretty bad.


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## Womper (Jul 30, 2013)

petedread said:


> @Womper, I bet there isn't another retail chip like yours anywhere on the plannet!



From what I've gathered, I think it's a good one aside from long term stability (I've observed even stock frequencies and Auto voltage rules resulting in BSOD in the long term). Keep in mind that adaptive voltage at 1.34v translates to 1.44v during Prime95 and other stress tests. In other words, playing around at 4.7GHz needs a manual voltage of 1.325 to 1.385 (I don't really know what long-term stability actually requires to be honest). At this voltage, heat pretty much prevents me from using lots of these stress tests.

So my chip is nice in the sense that it can utilize ludicrously high voltages. Safe enough for gaming though.


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## petedread (Jul 30, 2013)

I see. But still, you have a good un. I suppose it gives you a lot of options for 24/7 overclocks. I wonder what volts you need for 4.6ghz? From what I've been reading it seems there is usually a point at which the cpu suddenly needs a big jump in volts. So say 1.325v to 1.385v for 4.7 but maybe only 1.250v for 4.6ghz. 4.6ghz would be a great 24/7 overclock. My cache doesn't like being overclocked, and the cpu doesn't either lol, but you can OC both


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## petedread (Jul 30, 2013)

Just to add to the discussion about cache turbo. My cache turbo's to 4ghz if I leave the cache multi at stock settings. If I oc my core to 4.3/4/5 the cache turbos to 4.0ghz. If I oc the cache to 4.3 it turbos to 4.3 and drops back to 3.5 when idle. Or, it did yesterday. I've just had a look and it is now permanently at 4.3 when idle. 
I've uninstalled XTU because it caused some extra inconstancy's.


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## Kursah (Jul 30, 2013)

Womper said:


> I'm still running into crashes. It'll go for days without issue and then decide to freeze on me or throw a 0x124 several times in one night. I'm relying on Auto rules for everything besides core/cache voltage, so I'm wondering if those rules aren't quite tuned right. I also wonder if it's the motherboard overheating, but if a 200mm fan isn't good enough, then the motherboard is the problem.
> 
> I've also fought this sandforce incompatibility all along waiting for a BIOS fix, who knows how many bluescreens or freezes it caused. I imaged over to a newer drive, so hopefully that issue is buried. I'm going to run at 4.7GHz core, 4.5Ghz cache with a 1.34v adaptive voltage on both for a while and see if I find any crashes. 4.8GHz core/4.6GHz cache ran for several days on these settings, so running 100MHz less should be stable if it truly just needs more voltage for long term stability.



Ya that's what I'm dealing with for sure. I seem to have found some stability today with 1.27v for 4.3Ghz and 4.0 cache at 1.20v. I have felt my heatsinks and with my cpu cooler venting out the back of the case the MB temps are a few degrees cooler and the VRM heatspreader there is much much cooler. I only tried vertical exhaust for a couple hours before switching back...may try again when I have more time. But I have yet to see my MB sensors go above 35C, and no heatsink has been too hot to touch...this is probably the coolest running MB I've ever owned. 

Maybe it's a BIOS issue? I dunno the recent inconsistencies with my chip has just frustrated me...but I'll get it sorted eventually. At this point I have some stability at 1.27v. It's odd though...I can't even get into windows at 1.23v anymore...and that used to be Prime stable and iirc BF3 stable...but as mentioned earlier it may have not been stable in the first place...but it was more stable then than it is now at those same settings. But degredation could explain that as well...though that seems awfully fast for a new chip imho. Been a loooong time since I've had a bad CPU...but I have had one before so maybe that's the route this one is taking?


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## TheHunter (Jul 30, 2013)

I tested 4.6Ghz a bit and this is what I got 

cpu multi 46x 100mhz @ 1.22v in bios
cpu offset 0.002v
total turbo 1.218v

cache multi 42x
fixed voltage 1.13v

XMP 2133mhz CL9-10-10-27-1T

input voltage disabled so its fixed at ~ 1.70v
Cpu TDP 130%
LLC 6
VRM optimized 

rest auto







 

 

 

 

 



small correction: much better score with new wprime32 v2.10


----------



## kracker (Jul 30, 2013)

Well, I'm not sure if you use Prime95 for stressing, but the author is optimizing it for Haswell.(FMA3 and AVX2 I believe)

i5-4670K

27.9(current) temps on cores
78 / 74  / 72 /  70

Future 28.1 temps
86 / 83  / 80 /  78

EDIT:...enjoy...


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## Womper (Jul 30, 2013)

Something I like to do is boot into Windows with some "known good" manual voltages and then open Intel Extreme Tuner. Then I crank the core and cache frequencies up and keep voltage low, just to see the absolute floor voltage required to not freeze/bsod.

I found that at 4.7GHz, I can use 1.28v and get away with 1 or two minutes (max) of Prime95 testing before crashing. For more practical stability, we're talking 1.325 -1.385V. I find it interesting that it needs like 0.1v more than the floor value to be stable...my experience with Nehalem wasn't like this.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 30, 2013)

Womper said:


> Something I like to do is boot into Windows with some "known good" manual voltages and then open Intel Extreme Tuner. Then I crank the core and cache frequencies up and keep voltage low, just to see the absolute floor voltage required to not freeze/bsod.
> 
> I found that at 4.7GHz, I can use 1.28v and get away with 1 or two minutes (max) of Prime95 testing before crashing. For more practical stability, we're talking 1.325 -1.385V. I find it interesting that it needs like 0.1v more than the floor value to be stable...my experience with Nehalem wasn't like this.



Why are you using Prime 95 for stress testing. I thought it didn't officially support Haswell quite yet and the AVX2 instruction?


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 30, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Ya Mx I was wondering if it's degredation myself. But maybe you're right and it was never really all that stable. But it wasn't this unstable prior and it has just annoyed me at this point. Again thankfully the performance is good, but the OC-ability of this chip has turned out to be much more of a hassle to find than a K chip should be imho. Wish I had money to buy another one and sell this one.
> 
> I will say the Asus board has been pretty awesome thus far, I love the bios and featureset.



I'm also thinking that it is more likely that your original settings were not completely stable rather then the chip suffering from degradation. It doesn't sound like you were pushing excessive volts if you were mostly at around ~1.25v set in BIOS. 

Like *Womper* already mentioned about his chip... 

I also have experienced more then my share of "long term" instability with my chip... mostly random BSOD's and sometimes the occasional freeze in my attempts to dial my overclocks. I like to "crunch" Rosetta/WCG so my system pretty much runs 24/7 100% load. I have found Haswell to be more challenging than SB/IB at establishing stable daily "crunching" overclocks but I think I might actually have two that so far seem to be working for me??... One at 46x DDR3-2666C10 and another at 47x DDR3-2133C9.

I would go back and try starting over again testing at lower speed overclocks... 

Keep your CPU Cache multi on auto (39x) CPU Cache, CPU SA, CPU Digital/Analog I/O voltages all on auto. Run memory at 1600 speed with XMP (defaults/1.6v for your kit/F3-17000CL11D-8GBSR?).

I would test again for max multi(s) that your chip can run with vcore set in BIOS to ~1.200v/1.225v/1.250v. So maybe something like... 42x@1.2v, 43x@1.225v and 44x@1.25v.





petedread said:


> Mine seems random and inconsistent. But it's probably just me being a noob.
> *Anybody using Samsung Green with Haswell?*



I don't have the low profile Samsung Green kit but I do have several kits that use similar ic as the Green... (Samsung rev. D). I have some GSkill Trident X sticks that should be using the exact same HYK0 ic as what is used on the Samsung Green. They have run well for me up through 2133C9/2400C9 speeds. My kits can run higher speeds but they are also a higher bin... 2600C10/2666C10. Benching higher speeds with Samsung on Haswell may also require making adjustments to Secondary/Tertiary timings and RTL's in the Memory section of your BIOS.


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## Womper (Jul 31, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Why are you using Prime 95 for stress testing. I thought it didn't officially support Haswell quite yet and the AVX2 instruction?



Haswell can do older AVX as well as AVX2. Prime 95 just doesn't exercise the AVX2 instructions that yield better performance per clock. The latest version of linpack, however, does use the new AVX2 instructions, and it generates more heat than anything I've seen.

But the motivation is simple: Prime95 is a really quick way to see if something is "possibly" stable, and worth exploring. We all have our favorite quick-stress test for this.

Lately I've been using the Intel Extreme Tuner's built-in stress test for long-term. It doesn't use AVX code, so it seems to be a good stress test for someone that just wants to play games at max GHz without any crashes.


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## Kursah (Jul 31, 2013)

Well at this point it seems that I can get 4.4 stable at 1.36v, and 4.3 stable at 1.25v. Still testing though. I am finding that Wargames: AirLand Battle uses 8 threads and may push my CPU more than BF3 game-stress-wise. But after AIDA and Prime that's where I went next and so far so good.

I will say the 4.4 w/1.36v, temps can get a up into the low 80's while gaming. Which compared to some chips might not be too shabby? I dunno...seems decent on air to me for a haswell chip at that volts on air. Dunno if it's worth the extra 100mhz tho for all that extra temp and voltage.


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## TheHunter (Jul 31, 2013)

Here is my hopefully final 4.6Ghz@ 1.220v bios setting, it looks ok in almost everything atm


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## Womper (Jul 31, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Here is my hopefully final 4.6Ghz@ 1.220v bios setting, it looks ok in almost everything atm



Thanks for sharing! My input voltage is 1.8 when I use Auto rules, interesting that your MB uses such a lower value.

Also, I played around with Adaptive some more and found two things:
1. Setting CPU core voltage offset to "Auto" when using adaptive will be the same as 0.0v. So no need to have a +0.001 offset. Double check the Total Adaptive Mode CPU Core Voltage box- it should equal the Additional Turbo Mode voltage.
2. Adaptive mode will only boost voltage if you're running faster than 3.9GHz (yes, you knew that already). Even if you sync all cores to 39x (which is non-stock behavior). Furthermore, if you're trying to add voltage to the default cache speed of 39x, you can't use Adaptive mode for it- it needs to be at least 40x to use Adaptive.

Even if I stay at 39x cache speed, I still have to bump up cache voltage when going after core overclocks. So use manual or offset with 39x.


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## TheHunter (Jul 31, 2013)

About cpu vrm @ 1.70v, in uefi it says  its better to leave off when OC'ing so its not raising it further. Otherwise yes its the same here ~ from 1.71 to 1.79v

Same recommendation by system vrm spread spectrum and by cpu power management - CPU integrated VR fault management, but i left both at auto. 
By cpu I've put extra normal offset +0.002v just in case 



I didnt play with adaptive cache offset yet, but lets say i leave it at 42x, will it be stable at lower voltage? 
Or will I have to set min 39x so its stable at default voltage?


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## Womper (Aug 1, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> About cpu vrm @ 1.70v, in uefi it says  its better to leave off when OC'ing so its not raising it further. Otherwise yes its the same here ~ from 1.71 to 1.79v
> 
> Same recommendation by system vrm spread spectrum and by cpu power management - CPU integrated VR fault management, but i left both at auto.
> By cpu I've put extra normal offset +0.002v just in case
> ...



I'm not sure what you mean by leaving cpu vrm off. I can either leave input voltage on Auto (which will be 1.8v) or specify an absolute voltage value of my own. Your pic has it on Auto.

Adaptive Cache Offset acts identically to the normal Offset mode. It raises all voltage bins by the specified amount. This is helpful if you need to increase the voltage for the 39x and less speed-steps for some reason. I can't really think of a reason though- if you set to 42x for example, then you're covered by the Additional Turbo Voltage value during load. And if you're idling, then you probably won't have stability issues anyways since everybody speed-stepped down to 800Mhz.

Adaptive mode as a whole won't increase stability, it just eliminates the undesirable side-effect of Offset voltage- which is when you speed-step down to 800MHz for idle, you're still going to be adding that Offset to your voltage, which needlessly consumes power and stuff.


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## cadaveca (Aug 1, 2013)

Womper said:


> I can either leave input voltage on Auto (which will be 1.8v)



1.8V is not "stock". it varies from chip to chip as well as being dynamic based on load, which further complicates OC'ing. That's why some boards offer the override feature, which is what he is talking about, most likely. disabled follows board maker rules, enabled follow Intel rules.

I kept one chip 1.7V, one chip 1.75V. I noticed a couple boards set 1.8V default, but not all do. I think Intel spec is 1.65 V to 1.85V at stock, 1.65 V for C-states, up to 1.85V at high load, too, so I'm not sure why my two chips read this differently.


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## Kursah (Aug 1, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> 1.8V is not "stock". it varies from chip to chip as well as being dynamic based on load, which further complicates OC'ing. That's why some boards offer the override feature, which is what he is talking about, most likely. disabled follows board maker rules, enabled follow Intel rules.
> 
> I kept one chip 1.7V, one chip 1.75V. I noticed a couple boards set 1.8V default, but not all do. I think Intel spec is 1.65 V to 1.85V at stock, 1.65 V for C-states, up to 1.85V at high load, too, so I'm not sure why my two chips read this differently.



The disable feature for CPU Input Voltage on my Asus Z87-Pro is described pretty much as not allowing the CPU VRM to control what setting for the MB's Voltage to the CPU...but does not tell you if keeping it on AUTO changes anything. Mine seems to be at 1.712 atm.

I had mine manually set to 1.70 and it still read 1.712. I had read a couple of Haswell OC guides saying you may need up to 1.90V or more to get a stable high OC and that you want .4-.5v more than what you're feeding your CPU. And that while raising this voltage may help with OC stability it may also hinder it as more voltage into the CPU = More Heat which can just as quickly kill stability.

I wish there was a program that monitored that voltage variable via Windows...it would be interesting to see just how much it really changes. Might have to re-install Ai Suite...though I'd rather not. It's a neat program..but I prefer BIOS myself.

I'm also curious and eager to see what the next BIOS updates will bring.

Oh ya and another note, Crazyeyesreaper posted a couple pages ago in this thread about cooler orientation on these chips. Well I have tested my Noctua NH-U14S both with the standard horizontal to the rear exhaust and the vertical to the top fan exhaust in my current case...the Lian Li Lancool PC-K62 (love this case! wish they still made 'em!). What to keep in note here is in standard mount my cooler is aimed directly at the rear 120mm fan, which can move a decent amount of air for the stock fan. All fans are stock in my case atm. The top has two 140MM fans that while quiet do move a good amount of air. My previous build I had the Xig Gaia aimed veritcally thinking that was best..just like I did in my HAF 932 before that.

It's a hot part of the day...ambient temps are around 32-33C in the room I'm in atm..no A/C. I ran vertical exhaust since last night...and was hitting 99-100C pretty quick into Intel's ETU's CPU test and if I ran it too long, say 20 minutes I would get a BSOD 124 and restart (this is with my recent 4.4GHz @ 1.36v). Well I reset the orientation to the standard out the back. I just ran a 5 minute test, and the peak temp was 90C with the hottest core hitting 92C. With the vertical exhaust I was hitting 99-100C on cores and CPU readings. I think that's a pretty extreme difference when I was a believer like Crazy that a vertical exhaust would be best...maybe not the case. Maybe that's with this case? Maybe that rear 120mm is more effective than the two 140mm's? Maybe the cooler is designed more for the standard mount style though it's easily interchangeable between orientations...fastest cooler swap EVER.  gonna go try it on the 20 minute test after playing some Wargame: AirLand Battle. Sweet game, very awesome stability test for your PC too.

More to come! 

Had a great and first 1v1 MP match, and it was a riot! Max temps while in-game during this hot evening was between 75c for the coolest core and 80c for the hottest. Where I was hitting lower to mid 80's with a vertical exhaust. Again, could be a mix of case and stock fans.


----------



## Womper (Aug 1, 2013)

Kursah said:


> The disable feature for CPU Input Voltage on my Asus Z87-Pro is described pretty much as not allowing the CPU VRM to control what setting for the MB's Voltage to the CPU...but does not tell you if keeping it on AUTO changes anything. Mine seems to be at 1.712 atm.



Oh, gotcha. SVID Control is the option we're talking about. Auto probably = disabled as soon as you increase the multiplier, but either way, 1.8v seems reasonable for my needs. I meant to note that 1.8 is my stock voltage, since I figured every chip is different. Seems like a pretty large range though.



Kursah said:


> I had mine manually set to 1.70 and it still read 1.712. I had read a couple of Haswell OC guides saying you may need up to 1.90V or more to get a stable high OC and that you want .4-.5v more than what you're feeding your CPU. And that while raising this voltage may help with OC stability it may also hinder it as more voltage into the CPU = More Heat which can just as quickly kill stability.



Does the input voltage really increase heat by itself? If so, what kind of numbers are we talking about? Or does that too vary per-chip?


----------



## PolRoger (Aug 1, 2013)

Kursah said:


> I wish there was a program that monitored that voltage variable via Windows...it would be interesting to see just how much it really changes. Might have to re-install Ai Suite...though I'd rather not. It's a neat program..but I prefer BIOS myself



HWiNFO will show VCCIN voltage provided that your motherboard has a sensor for it. You can customize the program to show as little or as much as you like. 

The LLC control on the motherboard (for Haswell class) is now applied to the CPU Input voltage. ASUS auto rules seem to default to Level 8 (100%) which actually applies a little overvoltage to VCCIN under load. I've been running with mine set to Level 7 which seems to have the least variance between idle and load. Lower level settings provide more droop to VCCIN under load.



Womper said:


> Oh, gotcha. SVID Control is the option we're talking about. Auto probably = disabled as soon as you increase the multiplier, but either way, 1.8v seems reasonable for my needs. I meant to note that 1.8 is my stock voltage, since I figured every chip is different. Seems like a pretty large range though.
> 
> Does the input voltage really increase heat by itself? If so, what kind of numbers are we talking about? Or does that too vary per-chip?



It took me a while to figure why his was lower as well...(SVID Control setting). 

I've left my setting mostly to default on auto but I've also experimented with manually lowering the CPU Input voltage. I think the optimal settings for this will vary by chip as well as to what actual overclock settings you are trying to run... I just disabled SVID Control in BIOS and mine also dropped to ~1.712v under load but I then I started getting random BSOD to my "stable" 47x43x 2133C9 overclock... I've now manually bumped CPU Input voltage up to ~1.75v and the BSOD's have seemed to have gone away... 

In the past I remember experimenting with a lower voltage 44x overclock while running CPU Input down around ~1.65v. I suspect that running higher CPU Input voltages above ~1.8v will also impact load temps when running higher multi overclocks? I suppose that this could be offset if by running a higher CPU input voltage it would also allow you to lower vcore and still achieve stability?


----------



## TheHunter (Aug 1, 2013)

Ah sorry yes I meant SVID, in Aida64 its described as CPU VRM

I noticed if its at auto it changes a bit max i saw was 1.85v, by disabled its always at fixed 1.70v 








And small update, 1.220v wasnt 100% stable (bsod 0x124 in BF3), im now at adaptive 1.223v - this passed BF3 64player TDM test and the rest..





PolRoger said:


> Level 7 which seems to have the least variance between idle and load. Lower level settings provide more droop to VCCIN under load.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've read somewhere 75% LLC is the way to go with adaptive offset. Im at 6 atm, but like you noticed 7 is probably the best choice.


About SVID I think it has to be ~0.5v gap between input and cpu voltage.. So I at ~1.225v can still get away with 1.70v.. 
1.75v would be ideal, but if i manually put 1.75v its in the red zone and this kinda scares me lol, should i set to 1.75v anyway? 


Also yes higher values will heat up, just like higher cache volts.


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## PolRoger (Aug 1, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> About SVID I think it has to be ~0.5v gap between input and cpu voltage.. So I at ~1.225v can still get away with 1.70v..
> 1.75v would be ideal, but if i manually put 1.75v its in the red zone and this kinda scares me lol, should i set to 1.75v anyway?



I'm not really sure I follow you about the 1.75v to 1.225v being in the red zone?

I've seen it mentioned in this guide:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1401976/the-gigabyte-z87-haswell-overclocking-oc-guide

*"Too high of a VIN can result in added heat while setting VIN too low can cause instability and VCore droop if the VIN is 0.1-0.2v away from the VCore. Intel recommends keeping VIN Override at least 0.4v above the VCore."*

I'm not sure if this is some sort of firm rule or if it can vary by individual chip and overclock settings?


----------



## Kursah (Aug 1, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Ah sorry yes I meant SVID, in Aida64 its described as CPU VRM



For some reason I'm not seeing all those voltages in my Aida? Maybe it's related with me removing AiSuite? I remember them showing up...but maybe windows has crashed enough times something else is bugged...


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## TheHunter (Aug 1, 2013)

^
Try latest beta, im using beta 3.255 there
http://www.aida64.com/downloads/aid...64&utm_medium=update&utm_campaign=betaproduct



PolRoger said:


> I'm not really sure I follow you about the 1.75v to 1.225v being in the red zone?
> 
> I've seen it mentioned in this guide:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1401976/the-gigabyte-z87-haswell-overclocking-oc-guide
> ...



lol I said it wrong, in UEFI it shows red color anything over 1.50v, although now with v1205 its black again.


Ah thanks so its a 0.4v gap.


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## Kursah (Aug 1, 2013)

That fixed it! I can now see voltages.


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## cadaveca (Aug 1, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Ah thanks so its a 0.4v gap.




I never did find this info in Intel documents. I did look for it, and did find it in ASUS guides, but not in Intel info.

Some of the other info that was related in such guides has been changed, too, so I do not think this is a "hard" rule..it's something that LN2 users want to look at when running high vcore, which none of us will do. Kinda frustrating for me to see 24/7 guides written that are based off of extreme-oc guides, where much of the info for that just simply doesn't relate.

I have my own guide in progress still; it's mostly done, just making benchmark screenshots the past few days for that and a few other reviews I am working on. There actually isn't much different in my guide than others, honestly, other than different voltage values, and the whole keeping cpu cache @ 39 thing, rather than trying to keep it in sync, which only seems to benefit benchmarks, and not all of them, either.


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## petedread (Aug 1, 2013)

I need at least 1.860v to have cpu and cache at 4.3. CPU 1.225v. On a gigabyte board.
(Edit) My cache is static set at anything other than 35x. Set it at 39x, static, it doesn't boost to my OC or drop when idle.


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## Womper (Aug 1, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> I've left my setting mostly to default on auto but I've also experimented with manually lowering the CPU Input voltage. I think the optimal settings for this will vary by chip as well as to what actual overclock settings you are trying to run... I just disabled SVID Control in BIOS and mine also dropped to ~1.712v under load but I then I started getting random BSOD to my "stable" 47x43x 2133C9 overclock... I've now manually bumped CPU Input voltage up to ~1.75v and the BSOD's have seemed to have gone away...



Hmm I think I'll try disabling SVID. Maybe my CPU sometimes lowers the input voltage too much or something, causing those long term BSOD.

What voltage mode are you using on your 47x43x 2133c9 overclock? Is that a static 1.26-ish voltage, offset, or adaptive? We might have really similar chips- I'm running 47x45x 2133C9 with 1.275v adaptive mode on the core and the cache. In terms of manual/static voltage, this needs 1.325v to support AVX tests. I've taken it down to a static 1.28v, and it can handle AVX for several minutes before crashing.

Edit: Last night I decided to explore 4.9GHz a bit more. 1.39v static voltage, cache at 39x with a +0.1v cache offset, 1600C9. IET stress test blue screened after 4 minutes...darn. 5GHz boots with the same, but freezes fairly quickly after I get to my Windows desktop. So...how much voltage can the core take again? Is 1.42v a bad idea? What do these chips die at?


----------



## Kursah (Aug 1, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> I never did find this info in Intel documents. I did look for it, and did find it in ASUS guides, but not in Intel info.
> 
> Some of the other info that was related in such guides has been changed, too, so I do not think this is a "hard" rule..it's something that LN2 users want to look at when running high vcore, which none of us will do. Kinda frustrating for me to see 24/7 guides written that are based off of extreme-oc guides, where much of the info for that just simply doesn't relate.
> 
> _I have my own guide in progress still; it's mostly done, just making benchmark screenshots the past few days for that and a few other reviews I am working on. There actually isn't much different in my guide than others, honestly, other than different voltage values, and the whole keeping cpu cache @ 39 thing, rather than trying to keep it in sync, which only seems to benefit benchmarks, and not all of them, either._



 Dave! I can't wait to read your guide and apply your findings and knowledge to my build!

I have tried messing with cache above 39 and it's proven nothing buck lackluster or not noticable as you've stated. I really haven't ran many benchmarks beyond a 3DM11 or AIDA64 Cache and Memory Benchmark where even going from 39-41 I think was minimal on change. I will say I did read elsewhere in a guide I stumbled upon by google the other night...and a few thread posts that most recommend to run a 39-41x cache no matter what OC. But I find staying at 39 seems to keep overall stability in check.

Hey TheHunter thanks again for the link..I love this program but I don't keep up with the betas. I find that using the Intel Extreme Tuning Utilty CPU Stress Test that my CPU...I've grown fond of this app. Between that and Wargames AirLand Battle I feel stability is at least more enjoyable to find! Unless I BSOD in the middle of a good skirmish! Doh!

But I noticed that during idle, my CPU VRM reading is right at 1.712v, same as reported by BIOS. Then during load via Intel ETU, it goes up to 1.728v and stays there. Then a few seconds after the test is done and everything is cooling down I see it drop to 1.696v for a couple seconds before levelling out at 1.712v. I am currently on AUTO for the value, but the setting for CPU control of this value is set to disabled. I wonder if it floats around like that with a manual setting as a vDroop situation or if it's voltage adjustments? Seems small enough that I almost doubt it's the chipset purposely kicking up to 1.728v but I could be way off base here.

EDIT: So that's another thing I'm sure I've read about but don't remember and haven't tried... how different can the min and max variables for the cache multi be? Like say can you do a min of 8 to match the CPU and a max of say 39 and have it scale? Does it really matter? Does that hinder stability? Does it help?


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## Womper (Aug 2, 2013)

Kursah said:


> EDIT: So that's another thing I'm sure I've read about but don't remember and haven't tried... how different can the min and max variables for the cache multi be? Like say can you do a min of 8 to match the CPU and a max of say 39 and have it scale? Does it really matter? Does that hinder stability? Does it help?



The difference between cache min and max doesn't matter in my experience. I'm at 8x min, 45x max and it works fine. No difference in stability from when I left Min at Auto (which chose 39x), at least so far. Gotta let that cache take a break too!


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## Kursah (Aug 2, 2013)

Maybe you've already posted this, but can you tell if it's in fact switching clocks like the cores do? What software is reading that speed for ya if you can read it? I would assume that is the case...I just set my min to 8x as well, and 39x as max. You have sweet chip man!


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## PolRoger (Aug 2, 2013)

Womper said:


> Hmm I think I'll try disabling SVID. Maybe my CPU sometimes lowers the input voltage too much or something, causing those long term BSOD.
> 
> What voltage mode are you using on your 47x43x 2133c9 overclock? Is that a static 1.26-ish voltage, offset, or adaptive? We might have really similar chips- I'm running 47x45x 2133C9 with 1.275v adaptive mode on the core and the cache. In terms of manual/static voltage, this needs 1.325v to support AVX tests. I've taken it down to a static 1.28v, and it can handle AVX for several minutes before crashing.
> 
> Edit: Last night I decided to explore 4.9GHz a bit more. 1.39v static voltage, cache at 39x with a +0.1v cache offset, 1600C9. IET stress test blue screened after 4 minutes...darn. 5GHz boots with the same, but freezes fairly quickly after I get to my Windows desktop. So...how much voltage can the core take again? Is 1.42v a bad idea? What do these chips die at?



I'm now testing 47x44x 2133C9... It seems that I'm able to run cache at 44x with just a slight increase to cache voltage over 43x. Both CPU and Cache are set to fixed voltage... energy savings settings are actually a moot point for me because my chip pretty much always runs at 100% load.

BIOS Settings:

47x/44x 100bclk:

CPU Core:        1.259v
CPU Cache/Ring:  1.237v
CPU S/A:         +.100
CPU Digital I/O: +.100 (Auto)
CPU Analog I/O: +.000 (Auto)
DRAM:             1.525v
CPU Input:       1.792v (Auto)

Just this week I revisited 48x again and when under load at 48x my chip always results in BSOD's. The instability was severe enough to corrupt/crash my Rosetta data set on my BOINC software.  :shadedshu


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## TheHunter (Aug 2, 2013)

Ok thanks for min cache info, I've set it to 
min 8x
max 41x 
total adaptive offset 1.120v

And it jup works the same way like cpu, no issues.


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## Womper (Aug 2, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Maybe you've already posted this, but can you tell if it's in fact switching clocks like the cores do? What software is reading that speed for ya if you can read it? I would assume that is the case...I just set my min to 8x as well, and 39x as max. You have sweet chip man!



You can actually see this with CPU-Z on one of the tabs in the NB Frequency box. Or you can use Aida64 and others I'm sure.



PolRoger said:


> I'm now testing 47x44x 2133C9... It seems that I'm able to run cache at 44x with just a slight increase to cache voltage over 43x. Both CPU and Cache are set to fixed voltage... energy savings settings are actually a moot point for me because my chip pretty much always runs at 100% load.
> 
> BIOS Settings:
> 
> ...



Does your 1.259v core work for AVX loads?

And yeah, I've noticed with my chip's cache that 46x or greater is just a wall. 45x is fine with 1.25v, but 46x needs 1.325 or possibly more (it may have been a culprit for lack of long-term stability). 47x isn't happy with even 1.375v.

As for the core, 4.8GHz is possible, but it needs such a high voltage for non-AVX that Adaptive and Offset risk boosting voltage into the mid 1.4v's if a stray AVX instruction enters the pipe. Something like 1.35v-1.375v should be stable for games (heat is rarely a problem with games).

I'm super glad I bought this swiftech H220, I think it's fantastic. Definitely lets me stress test previously impossible voltages. I completed 3 hours of that IET stress test at 1.275v adaptive, and the max temp on the hottest core was 80C. Ambient temp was ~24c. Idle temps are barely above ambient, so this thing is sweet.


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## PolRoger (Aug 2, 2013)

Womper said:


> Does your 1.259v core work for AVX loads?
> 
> And yeah, I've noticed with my chip's cache that 46x or greater is just a wall. 45x is fine with 1.25v, but 46x needs 1.325 or possibly more (it may have been a culprit for lack of long-term stability). 47x isn't happy with even 1.375v.
> 
> ...



I haven't really tested it with AVX... I sometimes run brief Prime AVX runs as a quick check to see if an overclock will BSOD or freeze etc. I usually test for long term stability by "crunching" for 24/48(+) hrs. I would think that it would probably not be long run AVX stress stable.

With my chip... 44x cache seems to be the high range and 45x more like approaching a wall. I've never even attempted to do 46x...

I really think something is up with this particular sample when trying to run core multi @48x on ambient cooling. It just doesn't seem to be able to do it. :shadedshu  But the chip runs pretty well using 44x thru 47x... So I can't get too upset about it.


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## DOM (Aug 2, 2013)

I think I got the worst rma chip ever 1.6v for 5GHz @-55c


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## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 3, 2013)

I found this, is interesting.

"Now, I’ll share a secret imparted by the folks at ASUS who gave several reviewers some tips on overclocking the retail stepping Haswell chips: Set Vcore to 1.20 V. Set all cores to 46x (which would be a 4.6 GHz overclock), save & reboot. If the system boots past the UEFI and either begins to load or, ideally, makes it into the OS and is stable, you have a 50th percentile or greater chip on the Haswell overclocking-ability bell curve. If it won’t at least boot there and make it into the UEFI, you probably have less than a 50th percentile chip. You can expect chips in the lower 50th percentile to top out in the 4.4-4.5 GHz range at 1.25 V.

If your chip will boot at 4.6 GHz and 1.25 V, that’s very good. It means you have at least an average chip. If it will boot at 4.6 GHz and is stable there, then you may have an above average chip. The best chips will be able to do 4.8 GHz stable at 1.25 V. Our sample did 4.8 GHz, but at 1.3 V and on a custom water loop. Using 1.3 V will likely put a chip out of the air cooling / AIO water cooling thermal envelope. Temperatures in all of these scenarios, from the dog 4.3 GHz chips up to the good 4.8 GHz chips, will always be in the ~90°C range. That’s just the nature of Haswell. With the VRM on-die, think of Haswell as Ivy Bridge plus 10° C."

From here-
http://www.overclockers.com/3step-guide-to-overclock-intel-haswell


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## cadaveca (Aug 3, 2013)

tigger said:


> I found this, is interesting.
> 
> "Now, I’ll share a secret imparted by the folks at ASUS who gave several reviewers some tips on overclocking the retail stepping Haswell chips: Set Vcore to 1.20 V. Set all cores to 46x (which would be a 4.6 GHz overclock), save & reboot. If the system boots past the UEFI and either begins to load or, ideally, makes it into the OS and is stable, you have a 50th percentile or greater chip on the Haswell overclocking-ability bell curve. If it won’t at least boot there and make it into the UEFI, you probably have less than a 50th percentile chip. You can expect chips in the lower 50th percentile to top out in the 4.4-4.5 GHz range at 1.25 V.
> 
> ...





Ask W1zz if I didn't tell him exactly this little "ASUS secret" prior to the launch, when he got his chip. I had chips before he did. For all I know, he told that to ASUS and ASUS ran with it. I might have even had retail chips before ASUS did, and if you know a bit of the backstory about Haswell and ASUS, it might even make sense.  Anyway, that's been the general rule since Ivybridge. Since these chips are just IvyBridge with added stuff, bigger IGP, AVX2, and FIVR, naturally the same rules apply to clocking the CPU portion of the chips. The thing is, you can know how good of a chip you have by simply booting the first time and checking the BIOS for stock voltage. The rest of that is all just general BS.


The idea that it's IVB +10c, and that expectation, might be why some people seem to have issues, although most of the guys here in this thread seem to be doing relatively fine for 24/7. Haswell is simply way more than just that.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 3, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Ask W1zz if I didn't tell him exactly this little "ASUS secret" prior to the launch, when he got his chip. I had chips before he did. For all I know, he told that to ASUS and ASUS ran with it. I might have even had retail chips before ASUS did, and if you know a bit of the backstory about Haswell and ASUS, it might even make sense.  Anyway, that's been the general rule since Ivybridge. Since these chips are just IvyBridge with added stuff, bigger IGP, AVX2, and FIVR, naturally the same rules apply to clocking the CPU portion of the chips. The thing is, you can know how good of a chip you have by simply booting the first time and checking the BIOS for stock voltage. The rest of that is all just general BS.
> 
> 
> The idea that it's IVB +10c, and that expectation, might be why some people seem to have issues, although most of the guys here in this thread seem to be doing relatively fine for 24/7. Haswell is simply way more than just that.



Did you read any of this guys stuff in this guide? what do you think to it, or just the usual stuff.

did you know about this Asus trick before then? were did you hear of it? does it give a good indication of the capabilities of the chip? 

Sorry for all the questions, I like to take in all the stuff i can.

tigger


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## cadaveca (Aug 3, 2013)

tigger said:


> Did you read any of this guys stuff in this guide? what do you think to it, or just the usual stuff.
> 
> did you know about this Asus trick before then? were did you hear of it? does it give a good indication of the capabilities of the chip?
> 
> ...



I read the full guide. It's based on an ASUS guide, which I have as well. That guide says this:



> 1. Approximately 70% of CPUs can go up to 4.5GHz. Overall, most CPUs are capable of
> reaching 44x to 45x with varying levels of voltage. Voltage will be a key item as it defines thermal
> output. It is possible to run out of thermal headroom at lower frequencies due to a processor
> requiring excessive voltage for stability.
> ...





I had the "trick" idea before ASUS gave out their guide. I came up with it myself after testing a few chips, retail and ES, and W1zzard asked me what I thought and at that moment, that's what I told him. Like literally, those exact words, set all cores to 46, set voltage to 1.2V, boot into Windows. But like I said, that's what I used for IVB, and expected the same.

And now, no, I do NOT think it gives a good indication of chip capabilities, as what you can boot and what is required for 24/7 stability are not so close and depends on many things.

Noone seemed to read this part, however:



> It is advised once exceeding 46x multipliers to consider Per Core overclocking. This can provide
> higher frequency performance relative to threaded loads, but offers the advantage of not
> requiring additional VID or producing additional heat.
> An example is
> ...


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## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 3, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> I read the full guide. It's based on an ASUS guide, which I have as well. That guide says this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess each chip is different in some way, so each owner has to find their chips foibles.


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## cadaveca (Aug 3, 2013)

tigger said:


> I guess each chip is different in some way, so each owner has to find their chips foibles.



Yeah, but thankfully, the introduction of all these separate domains has made it less of an issue, it just takes more time tweaking to find the sweet-spot for everything together.

As to ASUS's Voltage considerations:



> Quick note regarding voltage scaling – VID for frequencies varies considerably from CPU to
> CPU. It is strongly advised offset/adaptive values be used for superior efficiency, as reducing
> chances of voltage degradation.
> Voltage variance between samples: outstanding CPUs at 4.6GHz require 1.150 VID and other
> ...




So, because this is all from ASUS's guide, and what overclocker's reports is a shortened version of that with their own input, there's some good info there, but at the same time, this was a guide written for reviewers when benchmarking, not really working for 24/7 clocking. This is just a guide based on getting results for reviews. In the end, my own guide isn't much different, honestly.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 3, 2013)

I noticed he said clock speed is king, in a choice twixt core speed and ram speed, take the higher core speed, is this true for Haswell. He also said low latency on timings is better.


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## cadaveca (Aug 3, 2013)

tigger said:


> I noticed he said clock speed is king, in a choice twixt core speed and ram speed, take the higher core speed, is this true for Haswell. He also said low latency on timings is better.



I guess he's referring to the fact that CPU core speed should be first priority when reaching for performance. IF anything you adjust affects CPU speed, you might want to reconsider that change that affected the CPU cores, in other words.


The rest of the guide, I don't agree with, really. It's more focused on OC-benching for extreme guys, not for 24/7 use. Perfect example is needing 1.15 V to 1.25V for VCCSA...you really shouldn't need that for 2933 MHz. I have 2933 MHz and 3100 MHz DIMMs, neither require adjust to VCCSA unless using BCLK adjustments. Memory...timings vs speed depends on the type of stick. Remember, that's a guide for benchmarking for reviews.

I could post the full guide, no problem, but I think that since you can get it elsewhere, there is no point.


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## Jstn7477 (Aug 3, 2013)

Hey Dave, I brought home my Gigabyte 7950 Windforce and when inserted into my ASRock Z87 Extreme6, I get a b2 post code. A dying XFX 7950 with the same ROM worked fine in the same slot with an MSI 7970 as a slave. Any idea what could be wrong?


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## cadaveca (Aug 3, 2013)

b2 is just before BIOS, no idea, could just be a bad card since BIOS should be just about to show screen then.


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## Jstn7477 (Aug 3, 2013)

Weird, it worked fine in my Z77 Extreme6 just an hour ago. This sucks...


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## Kursah (Aug 3, 2013)

*sigh*

Well I thought I had 4.3 stable at 1.26v...got 124 code in Wargames EE...tried 1.27 and 1.28v...again bsod 124. It's odd...it just seems at a random spot during the day the chip just gets unstable. I'm annoyed and back at stock speeds atm so I can at least game for a bit without the damn thing crashing. I all but gave up on 4.4...just too much voltage and heat for my air cooling to handle this time of year...better luck come winter. This chip is more and more disappointing every time I try to find stability and usability.

I've cleared bios, reflashed 1205. I noticed that the cpu vrm would stick at 1.712 no matter what I set once OC-ing..not sure if this is normal or not...or if it even matters. Works ok on auto and stock.


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## cadaveca (Aug 3, 2013)

Jstn7477 said:


> Weird, it worked fine in my Z77 Extreme6 just an hour ago. This sucks...



Is ya sure the IGP is disabled? try another slot. can't say I've experienced anything like that, honestly.


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## Jstn7477 (Aug 3, 2013)

Swapped the 7970 to slot 1 and GB 7950 to slot 2 and it posts now. Time to test and make sure this card works fine in CFX unlike my XFX 7950 that now throttles and freezes with any load applied to it besides Aero.


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## HammerON (Aug 3, 2013)

I have been running @ 4.4GHz for the last three weeks while crunching. No BSODs:


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## petedread (Aug 3, 2013)

Kursah said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Well I thought I had 4.3 stable at 1.26v...got 124 code in Wargames EE...tried 1.27 and 1.28v...again bsod 124. It's odd...it just seems at a random spot during the day the chip just gets unstable. I'm annoyed and back at stock speeds atm so I can at least game for a bit without the damn thing crashing. I all but gave up on 4.4...just too much voltage and heat for my air cooling to handle this time of year...better luck come winter. This chip is more and more disappointing every time I try to find stability and usability.
> 
> I've cleared bios, reflashed 1205. I noticed that the cpu vrm would stick at 1.712 no matter what I set once OC-ing..not sure if this is normal or not...or if it even matters. Works ok on auto and stock.



Just when I had come to terms with having to live with 4.3 (@1.219v), I've just ran prime95, blend test, I'm getting errors. Even with ram at 1600. Gone back to default bios settings and prime95 is running fine. Wow what a chip. 

(Edit) luckily I've made a mistake, earlier today I had to go out half way through experimenting with lowering the VRIN. I had forgotten that I had left it at 1.850v when it needs 1.860v. So it looks like I can have my 4.3 oc. 
Seems like you guys on Asus boards don't need anything like 1.8## even for higher multi's.
Now I can get back to trying to get my ram to 2400mhz.

I'm sure I have the latest version of prime95.
Aida64 ran for 20 hours and OCCT I ran for 3 hours, but prime95 workers fail with my tiny little 4.3 OC.

It's not like I can sell this chip. Who in their right mind would by a 4770K from Ebay.


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## TheHunter (Aug 3, 2013)

Kursah said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Well I thought I had 4.3 stable at 1.26v...got 124 code in Wargames EE...tried 1.27 and 1.28v...again bsod 124. It's odd...it just seems at a random spot during the day the chip just gets unstable. I'm annoyed and back at stock speeds atm so I can at least game for a bit without the damn thing crashing. I all but gave up on 4.4...just too much voltage and heat for my air cooling to handle this time of year...better luck come winter. This chip is more and more disappointing every time I try to find stability and usability.
> 
> I've cleared bios, reflashed 1205. I noticed that the cpu vrm would stick at 1.712 no matter what I set once OC-ing..not sure if this is normal or not...or if it even matters. Works ok on auto and stock.



Did you tweak cache multi and its voltage?

Well I got the same thing today, I ran realtemp 1.0rc and cinebench11.5 to see the temps with new noctua FLX A14 push/pull fans and baam 0x124 wmea or what ever bsod..

I went to uefi set min cache to 39x instead of 8x,  max 41x adaptive offset 1.13v and Cinebench11.5 passed normally. Now it idles at 1.060v.



I also tweaked some windows bcdedit commands, one is specifically for faster cpu sleep to wake response >> bcdedit /set disabledynamictick yes, I had it enabled and now its deleted and set to sys default. 
Idk maybe balanced power plan with default value didnt react fast enough, but it could be just big coincidence.


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## Kursah (Aug 3, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Did you tweak cache multi and its voltage?
> 
> Well I got the same thing today, I ran realtemp 1.0rc and cinebench11.5 to see the temps with new noctua FLX A14 push/pull fans and baam 0x124 wmea or what ever bsod..
> 
> ...



Ya I have messed with cache multi, varied min/max, set to auto, adjusted voltage,etc.

I am back to OCing again today...I just went back to stock last night and let it run that way for the hour or so I gamed before going to bed. I ran Intel's ETU at a revised and semi-stable 1.260v to find it has BSOD'd 124 and restarted sometime during the night..I had the test set for 1h 5m so within that hour and five minutes it crashed. I'm at 1.265v and it reads 1.267 under load and so far it's okay for now...

My chip in Adaptive idles with .699v-.709v, the stock vid is 1.071v iirc...so not a great chip but I'm hoping that I can just mayyybe find some stability.

Maybe I will try setting my min cache to 39 or auto again and see what happens...I just assumed it would be a good idea if it was clock switching too...but it's not like my chip runs noticeably cooler with it clocking down during idle speeds. I do have a better 120mm exhuast fan coming for my case and my Noctua NH-U14S has been a champ...love the cooler!

One thing I noticed is that my VRM wouldn't deviate form 1.712-1.728v yesterday. No matter what I set it to. If I put everything back to stock/auto it would read 1.798v. Right now I have it set to 1.8v and it's holding with a reading of 1.808-1.828v. So far things are pretty stable...but then again I have't given it the gaming gauntlet yet.


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## TheHunter (Aug 3, 2013)

^
nvm that small SVID variation, if you want it fixed then set it to enabled and put in 1.75v at around 1.25-1.30v area (just in case).

btw if disabled its at 1.70v

-----

A bit off topic, but does anyone know what's better for push/pull fans
 intake from outside - in my case rear exhaust, or as intake inside the case?

Well I had one fan as intake push from rear exhaust and it cooled just as good like now push/pull as intake inside the case.. I have another 200mm exhaust on top and one 20mm by side as intake, so heat buildup isnt a issue.


Although I saw another recommendation; two push fans on top getting air from outside as intake inside, apparently the best scenario.


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## Kursah (Aug 3, 2013)

Gotcha...I need to check but I'm pretty sure I have my SVID disabled and set to 1.8v and it's reading 1.808v atm. I may drop it to 1.75v, and enable it later on to see what happens.

I had to help my sister out with a flat tire on her Jeep so I let my PC run the Intel ETU CPU test for a couple hours with a 1.265v CPU voltage and so far it's stable...too bad I need so much voltage just for 4.3Ghz but maybe having the even higher CPU VRM voltage is necessary in my case.  We'll see...gonna play some Wargames: EE and see what happens.


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## Womper (Aug 4, 2013)

Yeah, these long-term BSOD are challenging. I'm going to throw voltage at it to see if it goes away. Instead of 1.26v adaptive, I bumped up to 1.3v. I also disabled SVID control and set input voltage to 1.8.



> It is advised once exceeding 46x multipliers to consider Per Core overclocking. This can provide
> higher frequency performance relative to threaded loads, but offers the advantage of not
> requiring additional VID or producing additional heat.
> An example is
> ...



I tried per-core mode a while back, and found it unhelpful. At the same voltage, sync mode at 47x was fine but per-core with 47x on all cores bluescreened quickly. Even something like 47x, 46x, 45x, 44x was unstable at my 47x voltage...so I didn't see any way to save core voltage. Maybe I'll try again.


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## Kursah (Aug 4, 2013)

I have only tried linked cpu multipliers thus far. I'd like to think that maybe a couple of my cooler running cores might be capable of a 44x when the hot ones are at 43x...but that's probably pipe dreams. But after a couple hours of gaming, several hours of stability testing it seems 1.265CPUv, 1.135 CacheV (still testing...) and 1.8v SVID is stable for my chip's 4.3GHz operation. For now at least!

Makes me wanna try for 4.4 again lol! Damn I wish I had money to grab another one of these and hope for a better performer. Though I gotta say when this chip is running stable the performance is great!


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## TheHunter (Aug 4, 2013)

My SVID is at auto atm, at first it was ~ 1.71v - 1.75v, now its stuck at 1.79v. 

And I didnt have any issues for 2 days. I guess it really needs ~ 1.75-1.85v at higher voltage


*Edit:* yes, tnx Dave 

Check this intel pic by Vccin it says 1.80v is nominal


cadaveca said:


> :


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 4, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> My SVID is at auto atm, at first it was ~ 1.71v - 1.75v, now its stuck at 1.79v.
> 
> And I didnt have any issues for 2 days. I guess it really needs ~ 1.75-1.85v at higher voltage
> 
> ...



But the Whitepapers published after that pic say differently. I was me that posted that pic, after all, so yes, I am aware of what it says. it also says nominal up to 2.3 V, and static up to 3.04V, which is kinda of true, but can and will kill chips.

There's no mystery about this for me really, this is published information.


----------



## TheHunter (Aug 4, 2013)

Yes imo anything over 2.0v sounds dangerous


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## cadaveca (Aug 4, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Yes imo anything over 2.0v sounds dangerous



I can confirm it is.


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## Womper (Aug 5, 2013)

I had a much better experience with per-core mode either because of the BIOS updates, or because I'm using adaptive mode. Although, it has one interesting behavior- it seems to stay .025v under the target turbo voltage. For example, I set:
Core total adaptive mode voltage: 1.3v
1 core: 48x
2 cores: 48x
3 cores: 47x
4 cores: 47x

If I use the IET stress test, it will choose 47x and 1.275v. Occasionally, especially when I stop the test, there will be a spike to 1.3v as the cores drop to idle ratios. Similarly, if I set Prime95 to blend with 2 workers, the CPU will choose 48x with the same 1.275v (and surprisingly not BSOD, at least in the short-term).

Then, if I set 1 and 2 cores to 47x also, the 1.3v turbo voltage is used the whole time. I'm not sure why it drops load voltage just because you change the turbo for a certain number of cores active.

Also, it's worth mentioning that Windows is still in charge of which CPU cores to use. The power plan in use, such as Balanced or Performance, will affect how CPUs and hyper-thread slots (or whatever) are used. With the above 48x/48x/47x/47x setup, I ran Prime95 with 3 workers and a Balanced power plan. Win7 sees 8 CPUs, and it will bounce those worker threads from CPU to CPU. The effect is that sometimes only 2 cores will be used, allowing for 48x operation, and other times 3 cores will be used at 47x. So...
1. You will constantly fluctuate between 47x and 48x as the OS shifts the workers around.
2. You cannot control which particular cores run at the faster ratio. The Asus BIOS, for one, might seem to present the Per-Core mode as a way to set a particular ratio on a particular core. In reality, the settings represent "ratio for 1 core active," "ratio for 2 cores active," and so on. So there's no way to bump up the ratio on just that cooler-running core #4.


----------



## PolRoger (Aug 5, 2013)

Sounds like a good idea... I'm also testing an adaptive per core overclock using some "stable" 46x settings... Might as well try and get the single threaded boost if I happen to not be "crunching". 

Cores 1&2 @47x
Cores 3&4 @46x


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## petedread (Aug 5, 2013)

When I first OC'd this chip I set the voltage, didn't use adaptive. Left all power savings on. When idle the CPU volts would drop off. No need to use adaptive. Later I had a play with adaptive. And now, I have to use adaptive if I want the volts to drop off. C3 and EIST alone won't lower the volts when idle anymore.


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## TheHunter (Aug 6, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> I can confirm it is.



haha i knew it 




And I noticed something with 0x124 bsod., 
Cache voltage is very sensitive to it, I tested 4.5Ghz at 1.18v (cache min 35x; max 40x) and i knew this was stable and yet it gave me random bsod while encoding videos using x264 codec - this uses all my cpu and sometimes spikes to 1.25v because of AVX.


I raised adaptive cache voltage from 1.115v to 1.125v and behold all bsod stopped, i monitored cache voltage and noticed it jumped from 1.079 up to 1.14v. 

I will test 4.6ghz and lower cpu voltage to see if i can get away with it. 1.216v would be nice vs 1.235v.


----------



## Womper (Aug 6, 2013)

petedread said:


> When I first OC'd this chip I set the voltage, didn't use adaptive. Left all power savings on. When idle the CPU volts would drop off. No need to use adaptive. Later I had a play with adaptive. And now, I have to use adaptive if I want the volts to drop off. C3 and EIST alone won't lower the volts when idle anymore.



Manual a.k.a. static voltage doesn't change with lower power states right? Is it possible you were using an older version of CPU-Z that was reading the voltage incorrectly?


----------



## Kursah (Aug 7, 2013)

petedread said:


> When I first OC'd this chip I set the voltage, didn't use adaptive. Left all power savings on. When idle the CPU volts would drop off. No need to use adaptive. Later I had a play with adaptive. And now, I have to use adaptive if I want the volts to drop off. C3 and EIST alone won't lower the volts when idle anymore.



If you used OFFSET mode the voltages will still move around, but will be increased or decreased as a whole by the variable you set it to.

Adaptive is much better IMHO. It can go to minimal STOCK idle voltage and applies the OC voltage when it needs to be there. Leave the Offset at AUTO, then set the Adaptive voltage below that to the 1.xxx you need.


Manual voltage will NOT drop off...at least in my experiences with this and other Z87 boards and previous generations. If it does that may be due to vDroop but not a reduction idle situation. I've used all 3 modes while playing with my crabby 4770k.

Speaking of...my chip decided to have a good night last night and then today it's a pain in the ass! I am almost frustrated back to the point of going stock...which defeats the purpose of buying this damn K chip in the first place! Does Intel warranty a crappy clocker under it's OC warranty? LOL! 

Last night I dunno what happened...all of a sudden things were lining up, and stability was easy to find, I kept dropping votlages. I had 1.24v on the CPU, +.025v on the ring (I tried adaptive on the Ring, it locks voltage..using offset allows idle voltage), and 1.75v on VRM, was looking good and passing all tests. But now today...not stable. 

Though ambient temps are higher today, I am peaking 75C under load tests this afternoon which is much cooler than when I was pushing for 4.4Ghz. Still just trying for 4.3Ghz...I am just convinced this should not be THIS hard to attain with stability, decent voltages and acceptable temps...I am apparently WRONG. Anyone wanna trade? 

EDIT: Reading this guy's OP where he had similar issues I did, though his chip ran hotter and got it RMA'd from Intel. Maybe I have a faulty chip? Gonna download Linx and IBT and see what my GFlops are measuring out to be and research into that method. His replacement chip is a sweet OC-er so maybe...just maybe I have a chance. This current chip is beyond frustratingly inconsistent. 

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2325609


Any thoughts Dave? I'm curious what your take is...am I wasting my time? Do I just have a crap clocker? Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I dunno...it just annoys me that something that I can make stable one day...is crap the next...hell I actually had a BSOD booting into windows at 1.24v this morning...that insta-pisssed me off after dedicating so many hours of yesterday to trying to find stability with this thing!


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## cadaveca (Aug 7, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Do I just have a crap clocker?



Yeah, that's what I think. In order to get CPU speed, you should drop cache to 35, maybe, and maybe lower memory a little bit, run 1600 or 1333 if you aren't already.

Your chip is 1.070 V @ stock..to me, that's 4.3 GHz chip. 1.060 V is 4.4 ghz, 1.050 is 4.5 GHz, on down to 0.950 V.

But then, I see that PolRoger, who should have a 4.9/5.0 GHz chip, isn't getting that clock yet.

Of course, I came to this "bin by BIOS V" from having 15 chips only, maybe I haven't had enough chips yet. Seems we are missing something still, or pushing the Cache is the issue, since PolRoger is pushing cache higher than what I think it should run at.

If you run cache/CPU at 1:1, or like cache 3x multi down from CPU, my "rules" don't apply, since that changes the loading characteristics of the chip.


Overclocking while running reboots, rather than shut-down, will lead to false stables, IMHO. I ALWAYS fully shut down a stable clock, leave the rig for a couple of hours, then come back and boot it up to see if it works. Cold boots and reboots get slightly different results, has been that way for a few generations now. I have a video on my youtube channel back form 775 days, on the Foxconn BlackOps board, showing how timings can change in reboots when system warms up, and that was many many years ago. I still look for this behavior, and I see discussions with the extreme guys dealing with setting RTLs properly. These chips are easy to a point, then OC becomes MASSIVELY more complex.


----------



## radrok (Aug 7, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> run 1600 or 1333 if you aren't already.



Does memory affect core clocking that much?

Also I'm gonna catch the occasion to thank you guys, this thread is really a SOURCE


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 7, 2013)

radrok said:


> Does memory affect core clocking that much?
> 
> Also I'm gonna catch the occasion to thank you guys, this thread is really a SOURCE



not really at low clocks, but as has been said, core speed is king, so why not try? It really seems that to max out each area requires dropping the others lower at the high end, so might as well try at the low-end with a poopy chip...


----------



## HammerON (Aug 7, 2013)

radrok said:


> Does memory affect core clocking that much?
> 
> Also I'm gonna catch the occasion to thank you guys, this thread is really a SOURCE



It sure is! Thanks to all that have contributed thus far and also to Dave for all of his insight


----------



## Womper (Aug 7, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Yeah, that's what I think. In order to get CPU speed, you should drop cache to 35, maybe, and maybe lower memory a little bit, run 1600 or 1333 if you aren't already.
> 
> Your chip is 1.070 V @ stock..to me, that's 4.3 GHz chip. 1.060 V is 4.4 ghz, 1.050 is 4.5 GHz, on down to 0.950 V.
> 
> ...



Is that stock voltage thing more of an exponential scale, where the difference between 1.010v and 0.990v is only like 25MHz, whereas 1.050v to 1.030v might get you 200MHz? And I'm pretty sure everyone hits a wall at 4.8 or 4.9GHz- the voltage requirements jump to 1.4v range and then 1.5/1.6v range. I haven't heard anyone claim 4.9 or 5.0GHz 24/7 stable, and not at anything less than 1.4v even for unstable.

The memory controller, cache, and core all scale exponentially also, one would assume. Additionally, as you approach aggressive settings on any one of these factors, it will increase the slope of the other two factors.



radrok said:


> Does memory affect core clocking that much?
> 
> Also I'm gonna catch the occasion to thank you guys, this thread is really a SOURCE



This probably varies chip to chip, but again exponential. There probably isn't much difference in core clocking stability between 1333 and 1600 for all chips. And from what I've seen, 1333 to 1600 is a big difference in performance across the board, but speeds higher than 1600 see much smaller gains.


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## cadaveca (Aug 8, 2013)

Womper said:


> Is that stock voltage thing more of an exponential scale, where the difference between 1.010v and 0.990v is only like 25MHz, whereas 1.050v to 1.030v might get you 200MHz? And I'm pretty sure everyone hits a wall at 4.8 or 4.9GHz- the voltage requirements jump to 1.4v range and then 1.5/1.6v range. I haven't heard anyone claim 4.9 or 5.0GHz 24/7 stable, and not at anything less than 1.4v even for unstable.
> 
> The memory controller, cache, and core all scale exponentially also, one would assume. Additionally, as you approach aggressive settings on any one of these factors, it will increase the slope of the other two factors.



Honestly, I am sure you are right, but the range where that starts to apply...is unknown. Maybe PolRoger has that chip...maybe it's @ 1.000 V. and maybe 1.075V it increases...my chips have only been within those ranges, as are most here. That's honestly why I started this thread, so we could find these things out.


I just realized...I'm totally geeking out on this stuff.


----------



## radrok (Aug 8, 2013)

I guess we can safely say that unless Intel does some radical changes to the CPU pipeline there won't be an air/water clocker that goes much higher than what we've been seeing from Sandy to Haswell.

This chip does scale insanely good with COLD though, I've seen some 4770k fly really high on phase.


----------



## Kursah (Aug 8, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Yeah, that's what I think. In order to get CPU speed, you should drop cache to 35, maybe, and maybe lower memory a little bit, run 1600 or 1333 if you aren't already.



That's one thing I haven't done in a while is drop the cache to 35.. been running 8 Min and 39 Max. Memory I have backed off from 2133 to 1600. 




cadaveca said:


> Your chip is 1.070 V @ stock..to me, that's 4.3 GHz chip. 1.060 V is 4.4 ghz, 1.050 is 4.5 GHz, on down to 0.950 V.



Well maybe 4.3 is all I'll get...maybe I need water to attain 4.3? I can't imagine 70-75C loads on air with a higher ambient temp on this summer day can really be killing it seeing as I've read some guys are running right at the thermal throttle with OC's...though whether or not they're stable I don't recall reading...

Damn this CHIP! lol



cadaveca said:


> If you run cache/CPU at 1:1, or like cache 3x multi down from CPU, my "rules" don't apply, since that changes the loading characteristics of the chip.



I tried doing a 1:1 ratio a couple times with HORRID results...if you thought I was pissed from instability at 43 CPU/39 Cache...man-o-man!



cadaveca said:


> Overclocking while running reboots, rather than shut-down, will lead to false stables, IMHO. I ALWAYS fully shut down a stable clock, leave the rig for a couple of hours, then come back and boot it up to see if it works. Cold boots and reboots get slightly different results, has been that way for a few generations now. I have a video on my youtube channel back form 775 days, on the Foxconn BlackOps board, showing how timings can change in reboots when system warms up, and that was many many years ago. I still look for this behavior, and I see discussions with the extreme guys dealing with setting RTLs properly. These chips are easy to a point, then OC becomes MASSIVELY more complex.



I can't say my chip has been easy on any OC point...at least beyond 4.2GHz which was a simple set it to 1.20v and go...it gamed okay, but I never did back all the way to that and test for stability. I am at stock now and going to run those tests as that guy detailed in the link I listed in my last post to see if I have a GFlop issue maybe leading to a faulty chip. Honestly I'm kinda hoping for that to have a chance at a different chip at this point. It would make a lot more sense for the random stability issues I've had at all levels of operation...except stock from what I recall tho. With a K chip I was assuming a little more OC compliance with 4.3 being a realistic goal and 4.4-4.5 being the fight. Wishing there was a microcenter nearby and I had $350 burning a hole in my pocket!


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## cadaveca (Aug 8, 2013)

radrok said:


> I've seen some 4770k fly really high on phase.



Yeah, overclocking on Intel is back with a vengeance. Phase cooling is high only my list of priority purchases.



Kursah said:


> I can't say my chip has been easy on any OC point...at least beyond 4.2GHz which was a simple set it to 1.20v and go...it gamed okay, but I never did back all the way to that and test for stability. I am at stock now and going to run those tests as that guy detailed in the link I listed in my last post to see if I have a GFlop issue maybe leading to a faulty chip. Honestly I'm kinda hoping for that to have a chance at a different chip at this point. It would make a lot more sense for the random stability issues I've had at all levels of operation...except stock from what I recall tho. With a K chip I was assuming a little more OC compliance with 4.3 being a realistic goal and 4.4-4.5 being the fight. Wishing there was a microcenter nearby and I had $350 burning a hole in my pocket!



Dude describes throttling issues, gets RMA replacement. Go figure.  I wouldn't read too much into that whole thread.


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## radrok (Aug 8, 2013)

If you were closer I could have helped you hook with an awesome Phase builder...

Not that you miss good Phase builders over there, naturally.

I'm just tempted to pick a 4770k chip and see how it fares on my single stage, the only issue is that it'd probably die in a matter of weeks even on cold.

Oh guys look at what appeared on Newegg :ASUS MAXIMUS VI FORMULA LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SA...

So tempting


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## cadaveca (Aug 8, 2013)

radrok said:


> If you were closer I could have helped you hook with an awesome Phase builder...
> 
> Not that you miss good Phase builders over there, naturally.
> 
> I'm just tempted to pick a 4770k chip and see how it fares on my single stage, the only issue is that it'd probably die in a matter of weeks even on cold.



Yeah, I wonder what Dumo thinks about that, he's been running water/phase a lot with memory clocking.


And yeah, there are some good phase builders, but they all seem to keep pretty busy. I'm going to school for HVAC, so eventually I'll just build my own.




> Oh guys look at what appeared on Newegg :ASUS MAXIMUS VI FORMULA LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SA...
> 
> So tempting



I posted a pic of mine a while ago... It's been calling my name from my shelf ever since.


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## Kursah (Aug 8, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Yeah, overclocking on Intel is back with a vengeance. Phase cooling is high only my list of priority purchases.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude describes throttling issues, gets RMA replacement. Go figure.  I wouldn't read too much into that whole thread.




Ya I'd say it's back! LOL. Man I remember when the first Core 2's showed up and I was soooo happy! I could attain my e6300 1.8Ghz to 3.5Ghz and it was STABLE and on an AC F7P none-the-less! It made my hot running P4 630 setup seem like a total joke! And all the other P4's and P3's and Athlons before that too lol.

Ya I'm not gonna read too much into that thread but one of the last posts I read this excerpt which might be interesting...I think I may contact Intel anyways to see what they have to say. But I'm gonna look into that OC warranty some more...



> ...Intel's current performance tuning warranty plan does clearly allow the owner to have their CPU replaced once regardless the reason for requesting the replacement (doesn't OC high enough is a good enough reason)...so there is no rationalizing to be done if one has paid for the privileges afforded by the performance tuning plan.



But if that's the case, which that was the first thing I did after buying it was getting that performance tuning plan...DO I want to use it on this chip now or "if" it fails within the next 3 years?

This chip is good stock...the second I OC it, it's shit with an intermittent case of "okay" that fools me into thinking that maybe, just maybe this time it'll stick and be stable! Ha!

Well gonna go play some games that I can't otherwise play while overclocking anymore. I've spent too many hours for finding stability on what is otherwise a fairly weak OC in the first place to not enjoy this build. Owning this cpu has made it hard for me to want to sell them to my customers.


----------



## radrok (Aug 8, 2013)

^^
That's what I don't like/like about Haswell.

CPUs aren't good (tons of duds between chips) this gen but motherboards are basically nutella, they are selling the CPUs this gen, and not the other way around.

Also Dave how many motherboards does the Formula have ahead of it in getting a review?


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 8, 2013)

Kursah said:


> But if that's the case, which that was the first thing I did after buying it was getting that performance tuning plan...DO I want to use it on this chip now or "if" it fails within the next 3 years?
> 
> This chip is good stock...the second I OC it, it's shit with an intermittent case of "okay" that fools me into thinking that maybe, just maybe this time it'll stick and be stable! Ha!
> 
> Well gonna go play some games that I can't otherwise play while overclocking anymore. I've spent too many hours for finding stability on what is otherwise a fairly weak OC in the first place to not enjoy this build. Owning this cpu has made it hard for me to want to sell them to my customers.



Yeah, the Tuning Plan, for OC, does get you another chip for $25, no questions asked. DOM said he got a crappy chip on his RMA though...so..

I don't see any other reviewer, period, hyping the Tuning Plan like I do, in every board review. It's hard for the Plan to work without everyone supporting it fully. Not too much else I can say about that...I've definitely done my part. If we support it properly, this could be a great program for those of us wanting to OC, but not many see it in the same light, unfortunately.


I prefer that there is big difficulty in OC and that good OC costs in cooling. It sucks that Intel chips cost so much, but I sold the chips I did buy extra already, no problem. for normal users needing a new PC, buying anything else doesn't really make much sense in my books.




radrok said:


> Also Dave how many motherboards does the Formula have ahead of it in getting a review?



Meh. I have Sabertooth Z87 and Z87-A waiting as well as the Z87I-PRO, IMPACT, and FORMULA. Extreme is on my motherboard testbench right this moment, review to be done this weekend along with the Z87X-UD3H, but the Gigabyte is first. I got a memory review I am working on right now, (testing max OC right this moment) and another to start on Monday.

So, I can fit any product in after the Z87X-UD3H. I kind of want to cover the ECS GANK MACHINE though. So maybe I'll do the ECS and then an ASUS next week(what I do and publishing are a bit delayed, proof reader and W1zz still need to do their parts for each and every review, not just mine.).

You think I should cover the Formula? or maybe one of the others?

I also have several ASRock boards, the G1.Sniper5, hmm, maybe a couple others... MSI MPOWER MAX review is waiting for the front page, too....that's the next you will see.


----------



## radrok (Aug 8, 2013)

Meh to be honest I think you could even skip it or do it at a later stage, shouldn't be much different than the Hero or Extreme.

RoG line seems to be pretty much on the same level, their ITX is interesting though.

Anyway I'm very happy that ASUS has decided to give you the rog line to review, it was a shame of them not to give you a RIVE.

Thanks


----------



## Kursah (Aug 8, 2013)

I agree the Tuning Plan needs to be put out there more. Maybe a Techpowerup article? Maybe a Intel Tuning Plan TPU Club? I bought it without question after reading your OP...actually I read this thread to where it was at around mid-late June prior to ordering my hardware.

I do agree that an OC should be a challenge...but how many days, weeks, months for a 800MHz OC on a CPU until it can be called to attention of something beyond just an OC challenge. Wanna buy my chip and give it a shot? 

I have read the Tuning Plan is transferable.


EDIT: Well decided tonight would be a good time to try, try, try again. I may have found stability with CPU 4.3GHz @ 1.270v, 8-39X Cache @ 1.20v, CPU VRM 1.80v, Memory at 2133 @ 1.60v. At least it passed AIDA64 for a couple hours...temps were pretty warm..but if I drop on any of those voltages I will get a BSOD. Still need to give it a longer term test to see if it's truly stable. Not amazing voltage for that OC, but not the worst I suppose. 

May see if I can't get the Cache to 40-42X, maybe..we'll see. I'm gonna make sure this is stable then I may shoot for 4.4GHz again just to see what it may take. If this chip continues to play nice it can stick around for while. 

EDIT Part Deux: Well in that time (what maybe 30 minutes?) Wargames: EE caused a 0x124 BSOD....so while AIDA was more stable...gaming sure isn't...


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## TheHunter (Aug 9, 2013)

I would try cache like so,
min 35x
max 40x
adaptive cache offset 1.12v (this could overvolt to 1.148v max)

And keep memory at 1.65v if its a 1.65v just to be sure its not a combo of both..


As for cpu use what you think its ok.


----------



## Womper (Aug 9, 2013)

Kursah said:


> EDIT Part Deux: Well in that time (what maybe 30 minutes?) Wargames: EE caused a 0x124 BSOD....so while AIDA was more stable...gaming sure isn't...



Intel Extreme Tuner's stress test seems to be roughly the same as game stress, in the sense that it will bluescreen under the same configurations in about the same amount of time. AIDA seemed to take longer.

If you're just trying to game, I would assume you have plenty of thermal headroom. For this sort of usage, I think you should just switch to a 1.32v - 1.35v static voltage for your core. That should work for 4.4GHz. If heat still isn't an issue, I'd take it to 1.37v and shoot for 4.5GHz.

As for the cache, I'd go with 8x min 39x or 40x max, and 1.3v adaptive- just to remove it as a variable while you tweak your core up.


----------



## TheHunter (Aug 10, 2013)

I've been testing 4.7ghz @ 1.255v a bit and it looks quite promising,

cache 35x, 41x @ 1.118v adaptive offset
auto SVID 1.79v
LLC6
120%




 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3dmark vantage 35k vs i7 2600k @5.1ghz 33.8k or i7 3770k @4.8 33.4k 

but its not fully stable though, 1.255v failed in FFXIV reborn benchmark.. Will try some more tomorrow, imo 1.26v should do the trick and pass the rest


----------



## Kursah (Aug 10, 2013)

Well I've been reading forums and finding that people are playing with adding .050+v to their system agent, vccio settings to help smooth out stability with higher than 1600 ram speeds and also some have found that increasing a little voltage here can also allow "some" folks to lower their cpu vCore. I forget the forum I read it but a couple guys claimed that the 0x124 DTC's weren't necessarily from too low of vCore anymore that there is so much more at play that mess with stability and that DTC being set.

So I'm gonna mess with that in due time. Had a storm come through and knock out power for about 12 hours and now I gotta honey-do list to conquer yet today. But so far I'm running Intel's test for now...

On running my Cache at lower than 1.19-1.20v I might try again, but I have found some stability going above the 1.16v mark at least a hopeful placebo lol. But I had it running in Adaptive, and I find no point in this setting for cache because it just locks the voltage at that setting...I can do that in manual voltage setting too. But Auto and Offset both allow the voltage to adjust with cache clocks in a power state, like the CPU. Whether or not this has allowed me more stable operation at one point I would say ya...but with the touch and go of this chip I don't know...I need to start keeping a more thorough Haswell OC journal lol! Maybe I should go back to Adaptive on the cache? Heck I dunno!


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 10, 2013)

Kursah said:


> a couple guys claimed that the 0x124 DTC's weren't necessarily from too low of vCore anymore that there is so much more at play that mess with stability and that DTC being set.



That is correct, memory unstable can make 0x124 BSOD, too.


One of the regulars in our TS, MXPhenom, he got the HERO and some 2133 MHz 1.5 V Dominator Platinums, got 0x124. Set looser tFAW, now fully stable.


Crazyeyesreaper was getting 0x124...for him, we disabled IGP.

VCCSA should be 0.85V or so @ stock, I run 1.05V on VCCSA, VCCAIO and VCCDIO. DIO and AIO are 1.02V stock for me, so just a minor boost.


----------



## Kursah (Aug 10, 2013)

Well I relaxed things a bit, started over again with a lowered Cache speed at 8-35x and ram back at 1600 for now...got 4.4 testing stable with Intel's ETU @ 1.35v. That just seems like so much voltage..but my temps are not going beyond 90C yet...though I am trying to keep the house cooler. That and I haven't ran AIDA's cpu stress test yet... I figure if it can pass an hour of Intel, then move onto AIDA...then when I get home later try Wargame.

I suppose it makes sense that memory can cause a 124 code too with the memory control being integrated into the CPU. I have NOT disabled my IGP. Maybe I should...I just assumed not use it, but leave it enabled should the day come my GTX 770 crap out or something. But I also suppose a clear cmos would be just as beneficial to getting it back if I don't have a backup card again by then (every time I get one, someone needs it! lol last one was a GTS250 I got for like 45 bucks..kid's gaming card smoked the day I got it! lol)


Well I will keep messing around and report back. I just wish there was a 5-minute or even 15 minute test we could run. I guess 15 minutes of AIDA64 should help with initial stability. That and a similar session in Wargame would really let me know pretty quick in all honesty I suppose. 

I may go back to trying to find 4.3Ghz in the sub 1.30v range...just not sure I'm comfortable running 1.35v...


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## Womper (Aug 10, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> That is correct, memory unstable can make 0x124 BSOD, too.
> 
> 
> One of the regulars in our TS, MXPhenom, he got the HERO and some 2133 MHz 1.5 V Dominator Platinums, got 0x124. Set looser tFAW, now fully stable.
> ...




I have the CL9 2133 1.5v dominator platinums, maybe I should do that. What setting did he end up using?


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 10, 2013)

Womper said:


> I have the CL9 2133 1.5v dominator platinums, maybe I should do that. What setting did he end up using?



Does your BIOS have SPD tool in tools section?


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 11, 2013)

I will post pictures tonight, but only thing I had to change to get mine working is the jFAW from 32 to 40.


----------



## Kursah (Aug 11, 2013)

Man..well I actually had an easier time tonight with 4.4 being stable than 4.3. Especially in gaming! I had a solid hour of Wargame crash free and overclocked! WOOT! Hell ya! You guys have NOO Idea! But at the same time it makes me want to RMA my chip in the hopes of one less shitty than this one.

But now that things have cooled off now for some reason instability started happening. Well I did eventually x124 outta the game, and after a little over an hour of AIDA testing after that. Then from there it went to shit. Well my SVID locked at 1.7v, which reads 1.712v. No matter if I set to Auto, enabled, or disabled. This has been an issue before where it locks at that..usually an F10 on Auto SVID and Auto Voltage Variable clears it up. Gonna have to clear CMOS this time. Anyone else notice this? I know someone mentioned earlier when SVID is set to Disabled it defaults to 1.7v...that just isn't true...it's a bug/glitch. Because I set to disabled many times before and a couple days since my last CMOS clear and was able to change anywhere between a tested 1.65v and 1.90v with readings in BIOS and AIDA corresponding the change. They both also correspond to the voltage lock. 

Just figured I'd share another issue that is causing me instability concerns with the crowd, get some feedback and see what ya'all are doing about it. 



Edit: Cleared CMOS, SVID is now adjustable again. Now to see if I can't keep this thing from crashing on every stability test above stock! lol!


----------



## Womper (Aug 11, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Does your BIOS have SPD tool in tools section?



Yeah, it shows the second and third timings on the DRAM page with the main timings. Second and third are all on Auto and it shows their values...I assume I can adjust them.



MxPhenom 216 said:


> I will post pictures tonight, but only thing I had to change to get mine working is the jFAW from 32 to 40.



So what kind of BSOD issue were you fighting? Or were you able to get stability at a lower voltage? I'm having a tough time getting Adaptive mode to be stable on the core. I have a 4.8GHz config with a 1.34v static voltage (4.5GHz cache @ 1.3v adaptive, 2133 ddr)...not a single crash yet. If I change that to a 1.34 adaptive (no other changes), or even a 1.35 or 1.36v adaptive, then I bluescreen 30min-1hr into a game or IET stress test.



Kursah said:


> Well my SVID locked at 1.7v, which reads 1.712v.
> Edit: Cleared CMOS, SVID is now adjustable again. Now to see if I can't keep this thing from crashing on every stability test above stock! lol!



That sounds really low for VRin. I can't remember- what's your normal setting? I'd go with 1.8v with SVID disabled.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 11, 2013)

Womper said:


> Yeah, it shows the second and third timings on the DRAM page with the main timings. Second and third are all on Auto and it shows their values...I assume I can adjust them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have not done any CPU clocking yet. Waiting for Dave's guide to release and do a thorough read over of it. 

Dave, like my 2500k build, helped me get 2133 working by changing a few timings. 

I am running fully stable with 2133 at 1.5v. XMP on, but my board/bios set one timing, the jFAW too tight so it would freeze and bluescreen with 0x124 code about 20 seconds after hitting the desktop. Changed the jFAW timing from 32 to 40 which is what it should be been set too based on the DIMMs programming, but the board set it to 32.

Once switch to 40, and everything else kept as is, things have worked flawlessly.


----------



## dumo (Aug 11, 2013)

3600 single air 32m





Ram on cold valid


----------



## Kursah (Aug 11, 2013)

Womper said:


> That sounds really low for VRin. I can't remember- what's your normal setting? I'd go with 1.8v with SVID disabled.



That's what it defaults to when I get so many crashes I believe. Then cleared CMOS default is 1.79 in BIOS so I'm assuming 1.80v. I have it manually set at 1.80v with SVID to Disable. But that's where it was prior...just after so many crashes it seems to lock itself to 1.70v for some odd reason. 

Had some luck with 4.3 @ 1.26v, 8-39X Cache @ 1.15v, Agent at + .100v, SVID Disabled / 1.80v, Memory at 2133 XMP, 1.60v (set to 1.58v in BIOS) 11-11-11-28 cr1. It ran Wargame for a couple hours while I watched a movie. Is an hour into a several hour test with Intel's ETU on CPU Test, will do Memory test next. Interesting how it's so stable at 1.26v where it was so spotty before...the System Agent at +.100v is to thank for that at this point, and the SVID being adjusted to 1.80v I believe has a big part to play as well. 

Still working on fine tuning...4.3 and 4.4 settings, will also see what 4.2 takes...under stock load I can see upwards of 1.21v iirc...see how far I can get which I'm assuming is 4.2 maybe. It's too bad you can't adjust multi's by the tenth...I'm sure in the next generation or two that will happen... maybe I could hit 43.3X Multi. Of course I suppose if a person wants to mix BCLK and multi's that can be achieved already.


----------



## Womper (Aug 11, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I have not done any CPU clocking yet. Waiting for Dave's guide to release and do a thorough read over of it.
> 
> Dave, like my 2500k build, helped me get 2133 working by changing a few timings.
> 
> ...



I see. I observed some stress test crashes at stock speeds, maybe this was why. I'll change mine to 40 and see if it helps.


----------



## TheHunter (Aug 11, 2013)

Kursah said:


> ..
> I know someone mentioned earlier when SVID is set to Disabled it defaults to 1.7v...that just isn't true...it's a bug/glitch. Because I set to disabled many times before and a couple days since my last CMOS clear and was able to change anywhere between a tested 1.65v and 1.90v with readings in BIOS and AIDA corresponding the change. They both also correspond to the voltage lock.
> 
> Just figured I'd share another issue that is causing me instability concerns with the crowd, get some feedback and see what ya'all are doing about it.
> ...




Well it is here, it could be motherboard specific and my Deluxe has better control over it.

If i leave it at auto it defaults to either 1.798v or 1.779v, if i set to disabled it defaults to 1.70v or in windows 1.696v. 


Like Womper said set it to enabled and put in manually 1.80v or 1.85v.


----------



## PolRoger (Aug 11, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Had some luck with 4.3 @ 1.26v, 8-39X Cache @ 1.15v, Agent at + .100v, SVID Disabled / 1.80v, Memory at 2133 XMP, 1.60v (set to 1.58v in BIOS) 11-11-11-28 cr1. It ran Wargame for a couple hours while I watched a movie. Is an hour into a several hour test with Intel's ETU on CPU Test, will do Memory test next. Interesting how it's so stable at 1.26v where it was so spotty before...the System Agent at +.100v is to thank for that at this point, and the SVID being adjusted to 1.80v I believe has a big part to play as well.
> 
> Still working on fine tuning...4.3 and 4.4 settings, will also see what 4.2 takes...under stock load I can see upwards of 1.21v iirc...see how far I can get which I'm assuming is 4.2 maybe. It's too bad you can't adjust multi's by the tenth...I'm sure in the next generation or two that will happen... maybe I could hit 43.3X Multi. Of course I suppose if a person wants to mix BCLK and multi's that can be achieved already.



I'm pretty much of the opinion that Haswell runs best (most stable) under ambient cooling conditions with a cpu vcore set in the ~1.175v to ~1.225v range. Which is probably why the ASUS guide recommends starting with vcore @1.200v to gauge/bin the capability of a given sample.  

If your sample seems to need ~1.26v for 43x then I think you'll find that your chip will have a overclocking sweet spot at 42x with ~1.200v/1.225v. 

My sample needs ~1.259v/1.264v (vid) for 47x and I'm still running into the occasional random BSOD under long term "crunching" loads. If I bump multi up to 48x I can "at best" only achieve a certain level of "benching" stability with a VID in the mid 1.3v range. However my sample seems good (stable) @46x ~1.205v/1.215v and @45x ~1.70v/1.75v range.

I've also been testing 46x with ~101.4/101.5 bclk (4.65GHz/4.66Ghz) using ~1.245v/1.250v VID.



Womper said:


> I see. I observed some stress test crashes at stock speeds, maybe this was why. I'll change mine to 40 and see if it helps.



You can download and use MemTweakIt to monitor your ram timings/settings. On my ASUS Z87-Deluxe the 2133 speed (divider/multi) will auto/defaults tFAW to 40.

My current 46x overclock...Using Manual CPU Core/Cache settings (~35+ hrs. Rosetta load):


----------



## radrok (Aug 11, 2013)

^^^

Seems like a very sweet chip you've there got sir.

May I ask you a Cinebench 11.5 run?

Thanks


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## PolRoger (Aug 11, 2013)

radrok said:


> ^^^
> 
> Seems like a very sweet chip you've there got sir.
> 
> ...



Thanks mate...


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## radrok (Aug 11, 2013)

Thank you, that's a very good score.

The IPC on Haswell is impressive, imagine what a higher core count chip would achieve...


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## Womper (Aug 12, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> I'm pretty much of the opinion that Haswell runs best (most stable) under ambient cooling conditions with a cpu vcore set in the ~1.175v to ~1.225v range. Which is probably why the ASUS guide recommends starting with vcore @1.200v to gauge/bin the capability of a given sample.
> 
> If your sample seems to need ~1.26v for 43x then I think you'll find that your chip will have a overclocking sweet spot at 42x with ~1.200v/1.225v.
> 
> ...



Well there you go. The default tFAW for some people is 40 with DDR at 2133. MxPhenom and I have boards that try to use 32.

Are you sticking with Manual mode for voltages? I'm curious if manual mode lets you use lower voltages than Adaptive or Offset.

I just finished a 4 hour IET session at 4.7GHz with 1.275v adaptive vcore, and 1.3v adaptive cache @ 4.5GHz. But 4.8GHz is so tasty, and it's been solid with a manual 1.34v. Think a manual voltage that high would kill my chip quickly? I'm not familiar with how well these 22nm chips can handle what voltage.


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## DOM (Aug 12, 2013)

Have a question for some reason I cant oc for crap on water but in the ss I was gettimg up to 4.9 stable but cant get even past 4 XD

do I need to rma the mb cuz it killed a cpu already on ln2

msi mpower max


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## Kursah (Aug 12, 2013)

You could try to RMA the MB? Hey question? Is your chip Maylay or Costa Rica? I have read that the Costa Rica's are the new ones and are even worse clockers...though I've only read that in a couple of threads...maybe there's something to it. Makes me want to keep my chip and not risk RMA for a worse chip...

4.2 @ 1.21v seems stable so far, had one bsod all night which is decent...none during gaming thus far which is good. Still testing. 4.3 at 1.26v seems mostly stable..going higher with vcore doesn't seem to affect intermittent stability, same with 4.4 @ 1.35v. I'm still thinking I want to make 4.3 where I settle. Should be do-able I hope...but I'm gonna at least make sure I can limp back to 4.2 stable before I go back up.

Also gonna look at my timings for 2133...man wish I could run tighter timings at that speed, but my kit was pretty affordable at time of purchase, fair trade I suppose! 

EDIT: My (FOUR ACT WIN Time) tFAW memory setting (section 2 in BIOS) was also defaulted to 32, set to 40 to see if that helps with any of my OC stability issues.


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## DOM (Aug 12, 2013)

Mine is costa from rma I haven't messed with the mem just running stock 2400 9-11-11-28 at T1

might just sell them and get a 3770k 

still have my mvg should of sold the haswell rig


----------



## PolRoger (Aug 12, 2013)

Womper said:


> Well there you go. The default tFAW for some people is 40 with DDR at 2133. MxPhenom and I have boards that try to use 32.



That is interesting that the Hero and your Z87-Plus are running/using Auto rules for tFAW that are tighter then my ASUS board? I would have assumed that the same family of chipset/boards would be using similar rules? I've attached some shots of my board's auto defaults for 1600/1866/2133/2400... Primary timings were manually set (4x4GB kit) all others left on auto. 




Womper said:


> Are you sticking with Manual mode for voltages? I'm curious if manual mode lets you use lower voltages than Adaptive or Offset.



I'm not sure if manual offers an advantage or not?... I would think that the voltage requirements (settings) would end up being rather similar between the three modes. Under my usage scenario this chip primarily runs under 100% load "crunching"... I've also noticed with my current settings that C States are active and my vcore will idle down under C7.



Womper said:


> I just finished a 4 hour IET session at 4.7GHz with 1.275v adaptive vcore, and 1.3v adaptive cache @ 4.5GHz. But 4.8GHz is so tasty, and it's been solid with a manual 1.34v. Think a manual voltage that high would kill my chip quickly? I'm not familiar with how well these 22nm chips can handle what voltage.



It is probably too early to say how durable these chips are when running voltages long term at greater then ~1.3v? I've seen some people on the forums who do and don't seem too concerned about the possibility of degradation or other possible damage/death. With IB and Haswell (both 22nm) I personally prefer keeping voltages below 1.3v for daily "24/7" type usage... more like ~1.250/1.275v range. Frankly, 100MHz/200MHz/300MHz isn't really that big a deal under daily real world usage. If you need to bump up your "o.c." short term for a particular reason... Then why not?


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## TheHunter (Aug 12, 2013)

Mine is also 32 at 2133mhz., by  2400, 2666 its ~ 50 and slower speeds, using same 100:133 divider 

 

 

 


I didnt test round trip latency (tRTL) 40/41 and (tIOL) 4 yet



@Kursah

Try to disable this if it helps


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## Kursah (Aug 12, 2013)

I wonder if it comes down to Haswell compatible memory kits? My memory kit said it was IB compatible, but nothing about Haswell. Been a solid kit overall imho...but could it be the cause of some instability? I dunno. It runs fine at 1600 as well, but I lose ~10,000 mb/s bandwidth when doing so...not sure if that really makes a noticable difference or not...but I would assume it does and may depends on the game/application.

Well I replaced the stock 120mm exhaust fan in my case with a Corsair SP120, and that has made a nice difference. Lower temps load and idle but a couple degrees if not several and not as loud while also moving what feels like more air. The stock fan wasn't bad...but the Corsair is a solid performer! I'm impressed!

Hunter, I will disable that and give it a shot!


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## Womper (Aug 12, 2013)

Kursah said:


> I wonder if it comes down to Haswell compatible memory kits? My memory kit said it was IB compatible, but nothing about Haswell. Been a solid kit overall imho...but could it be the cause of some instability? I dunno. It runs fine at 1600 as well, but I lose ~10,000 mb/s bandwidth when doing so...not sure if that really makes a noticable difference or not...but I would assume it does and may depends on the game/application.



Running at 1600 is fine for games. You're going to miss out on a couple fps in situations where you are CPU memory bandwidth limited. Like if you're at 60fps with 2133, you'll be at 57fps with 1600 (~5%). At least that's how the memory kit reviews on Ivy Bridge went.


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## Kursah (Aug 12, 2013)

Well I've gotta assume it'll be similar with HW then. Back to finding stability with 4.3Ghz. 1.26v, disabled the VR setting Hunter suggested and also in that setting's description is a recommended Disable while overclocking. I'm hoping that Dave's guide covers some of these...as I hope they are kind of standard across Z87 OC MB's. Looking forward to reading it! Looking forward to maybe...just maybe finding 4.3 on air with stability!

Good news with the new exhaust fan, instead of loading into the 80's during the heat at this time of day (and only get's worse)...I'm just into the 70's! That makes me happy for being on air and dealing with cooling a Haswell.


----------



## Jstn7477 (Aug 12, 2013)

I pulled my rig back to 4.3GHz/4.3GHz (172*25) since running a Crossfire setup caused me to get occasional 124 BSODs that I didn't have at 4.4GHz/4.23GHz. Need to lower the volts a bit (1.230v for core/ring) but should be alright.


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## Kursah (Aug 12, 2013)

Still can't seem to pass even a couple hours of Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility test. Well I did run the memory test and that's what failed, it seems to load the CPU similar as the CPU test and also utilize more memory for testing. 

It was well over an hour in when I walked away for work. Come back to a failed restart and ETU saying it wasn't closed properly. GRRR.... I thought I was closer than ever to finally finding OC stability with this POS chip. Gonna drop memory back to 1600 again I guess. This K series chip can stay marked in the disappointment in the OC category for a while longer yet.

EDIT: Back at 4.2 for now, was able to play Wargame for a while, and did not stress test any more...leaving town for a couple days. I'll come back at it then and hope it'll lock down stable.


----------



## Kursah (Aug 19, 2013)

Well I'm almost convinced my chip is one of the worst 1%'ers out there...I can't find true stability while overclocking for anything. Ram at 1600, 1866 or even rated 2133...cache at 35 or 39, or even auto...voltages, VRIN 1.75-1.90v, cpuv 1.2v-1.36v, memory 1.58-1.60v (bumps up by .02v on all readings), vccsa .864 (stock) to 1.15v, vcc digital and anaog  auto to +.100v, RingV auto to 1.25v, memory timings anywhere from cl9 to looser than rated cl12, and everything I've discussed in previous posts in this thread. None of it seems to keep this thing stable..and when it decides it's gonna go to hell with stability games crash, tests crash and honestly I don't think I've every found stability maybe just a lucky time-frame or who knows. 

I do however have my Batch for ya Dave: L307B189  It is a Malay as well. Guess it's back to stock till I find some more patience for this thing again or just decide to risk an RMA for what can't possibly be a worse chip imho. Anyone got suggestions for something I haven't tried yet?


----------



## Womper (Aug 19, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Well I'm almost convinced my chip is one of the worst 1%'ers out there...I can't find true stability while overclocking for anything. Ram at 1600, 1866 or even rated 2133...cache at 35 or 39, or even auto...voltages, VRIN 1.75-1.90v, cpuv 1.2v-1.36v, memory 1.58-1.60v (bumps up by .02v on all readings), vccsa .864 (stock) to 1.15v, vcc digital and anaog  auto to +.100v, RingV auto to 1.25v, memory timings anywhere from cl9 to looser than rated cl12, and everything I've discussed in previous posts in this thread. None of it seems to keep this thing stable..and when it decides it's gonna go to hell with stability games crash, tests crash and honestly I don't think I've every found stability maybe just a lucky time-frame or who knows.
> 
> I do however have my Batch for ya Dave: L307B189  It is a Malay as well. Guess it's back to stock till I find some more patience for this thing again or just decide to risk an RMA for what can't possibly be a worse chip imho. Anyone got suggestions for something I haven't tried yet?



Honestly I'm surprised it works at stock speeds. If it does work at stock speeds, I guess that rules out any major incompatibilities with memory or something.

I think you should either run it at stock/light overclock, or get a new chip.


----------



## d1nky (Aug 19, 2013)

I got a friend that's about to build an intel rig.

he overclocks and benches like a bitch, its his thing.

what would the best choice be out of 3770k/4770k/3930k

btw he likes overkill and money isn't really a problem.

edit he went for 3930k and rivf


----------



## SimpleTECH (Aug 19, 2013)

d1nky said:


> edit he went for 3930k and rivf



Good choice as the CPU will yield a higher score in most benchmarks and the platform has enough PCIe bandwidth for multiple graphics cards.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 19, 2013)

SimpleTECH said:


> Good choice as the CPU will yield a higher score in most benchmarks and the platform has enough PCIe bandwidth for multiple graphics cards.


That depends on the benchmark actually... For example, 3DMark 01, 03, and 05 are single threaded to which you want the fastest out of those (the 4770K on LN2). 06/11/V will respond to multiple cores. However a 6.3GHz 4770K will smoke a 5.5GHz 3930K. He has to go cold with the 3930K to make it work better for him.

Bandwidth for GPU's isnt a huge issue either. Check out HWbot and note that most 3D records were not done on X79 platform.


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## FireKillerGR (Aug 19, 2013)

3dmark05 isnt single threaded 
Try the following: 1c/1t  vs 1c/2t vs 4c/4t vs 4c/8t.
It gains from cores but not from hyper-threading


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## Kursah (Aug 19, 2013)

Womper said:


> Honestly I'm surprised it works at stock speeds. If it does work at stock speeds, I guess that rules out any major incompatibilities with memory or something.
> 
> I think you should either run it at stock/light overclock, or get a new chip.



This rig is solid at stock CPU, XMP memory speeds. I threw every test in the book all night last night at it stock just to make sure yet again there wasn't another issue like the memory. Every test passed. CPU runs 3.9 turbo on all cores at 1.21v (everything on Auto)...but I still would have figured being an Intel Core that that same voltage would allow me at least 4.2-4.3Ghz OC ...but then again I missed out on SB and IB OC-ing except for some minor boosting for customers that didn't want much.

I am seriously considering the Intel Performance RMA...just worried that I may get a worse chip...though not entirely sure how that could happen lol.


----------



## Womper (Aug 19, 2013)

Kursah said:


> This rig is solid at stock CPU, XMP memory speeds. I threw every test in the book all night last night at it stock just to make sure yet again there wasn't another issue like the memory. Every test passed. CPU runs 3.9 turbo on all cores at 1.21v (everything on Auto)...but I still would have figured being an Intel Core that that same voltage would allow me at least 4.2-4.3Ghz OC ...but then again I missed out on SB and IB OC-ing except for some minor boosting for customers that didn't want much.
> 
> I am seriously considering the Intel Performance RMA...just worried that I may get a worse chip...though not entirely sure how that could happen lol.



If I do 39x cores synced, cache 39x, and leave voltage on Auto, then I get 1.195v under load. Not a huge difference, and could just be the motherboard.

But if you're telling me that a manual vcore of 1.3v doesn't even get you past 4.3GHz, then it's a waste of time to try to overclock that chip.


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 19, 2013)

Could just be the XMP profile. I've seen lots of little ram oddities with Haswell; kits that just barely passed verification with SNB/IVB might fail with Haswell since subtimings are quite different. Kits that failed with SNB/IVB, work fine with Haswell, too.

IMC differences are grossly understated, too.


----------



## Kursah (Aug 19, 2013)

Womper said:


> If I do 39x cores synced, cache 39x, and leave voltage on Auto, then I get 1.195v under load. Not a huge difference, and could just be the motherboard.
> 
> But if you're telling me that a manual vcore of 1.3v doesn't even get you past 4.3GHz, then it's a waste of time to try to overclock that chip.



Ya a manual vcore of 1.3v does not get me stable at 4.3... 

My voltage under load is all stock, so cores and cache are auto...and loading at 1.21v so maybe it's just a bunk chip? 

I have primarily been using XMP profiles but have also tried manually overclocking as well. Though come to think of it I may have still had XMP settings loaded when I switched over to Manual settings as it wasn't a clean swap so-to speak with either F5 optimized settings or a cmos clear. Maybe I'll try that here in a bit and see what I can get...but as Womper suggested with 1.3v...it might be a waste of time trying to overclock that chip which is what I feel like after trying since late June to get this thing stable at anywhere from 4.2 to 4.4. Maybe this chip just wasn't meant to work out...wish I had a place locally I could go buy one and have exchanged it or had actually OC'd my rig before Newegg's return policy expired so I didn't have to waste my Intel Performance RMA. But I'm almost set on RMA-ing...but then part of me doesn't want to give into defeat. Though it's awfully frustrating that anything past stock is at best intermittently stable maybe a roll of the dice on an RMA will bring me better luck than the guy in the Newegg warehouse did?


----------



## Womper (Aug 19, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Ya a manual vcore of 1.3v does not get me stable at 4.3...
> 
> My voltage under load is all stock, so cores and cache are auto...and loading at 1.21v so maybe it's just a bunk chip?
> 
> I have primarily been using XMP profiles but have also tried manually overclocking as well. Though come to think of it I may have still had XMP settings loaded when I switched over to Manual settings as it wasn't a clean swap so-to speak with either F5 optimized settings or a cmos clear. Maybe I'll try that here in a bit and see what I can get...but as Womper suggested with 1.3v...it might be a waste of time trying to overclock that chip which is what I feel like after trying since late June to get this thing stable at anywhere from 4.2 to 4.4. Maybe this chip just wasn't meant to work out...wish I had a place locally I could go buy one and have exchanged it or had actually OC'd my rig before Newegg's return policy expired so I didn't have to waste my Intel Performance RMA. But I'm almost set on RMA-ing...but then part of me doesn't want to give into defeat. Though it's awfully frustrating that anything past stock is at best intermittently stable maybe a roll of the dice on an RMA will bring me better luck than the guy in the Newegg warehouse did?



Dave knows best- the memory controller is a big player if he says so. You can officially declare defeat after trying a few memory kits. But that's not always an option. If you have access to a different set of memory, I'd give it a try. Otherwise, my feeling is that your chip is just a slow one, and I'd swap it via that Intel plan.

After several solid stress testing sessions I've firmed up my settings as far as non-AVX stuff goes. For 24/7 I'm going with 1.275v adaptive mode (that is, 1.275v Additional Turbo Mode for us Asus owners) on both the core and the cache. This gets me 4.7GHz core and 4.5GHz cache. Min cache ratio is 8x, SVID is disabled, input voltage at 1.8v, XMP mode, DDR 2133, command rate reduced to 1, and TFAW increased from 32 to 40. All other settings are left at optimized default. I'm not sure SVID, input voltage, or TFAW have any impact; my earlier complaints about stability turned out to be low core voltage and/or using 4.6GHz cache. 4.8GHz is still possible with a manual 1.34v for non-AVX stuff, but I can't get it to work with adaptive at any setting. Although 1.34v adaptive would pop up to 1.45v for AVX, which is a little too high for my liking anyways.

From what I can tell, my chip is similar to a lot of people running at 4.4-4.5GHz with 1.25v manual...the difference is that I don't care about AVX, so +headroom for me. I might be a little more fortunate that I have the margin to hit 4.8GHz at 1.34v manual. 4.9GHz is a no-go at 1.4v, and 46x cache is north of 1.325v, and not worth pursuing. Interestingly, I saw significant droop on a 1.325v cache with input voltage at 1.8. It needed 1.86v to keep the core voltage on target. Gotta watch for where that droop starts to happen.


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## Kursah (Aug 19, 2013)

Womper said:


> Dave knows best- the memory controller is a big player if he says so. You can officially declare defeat after trying a few memory kits. But that's not always an option. If you have access to a different set of memory, I'd give it a try. Otherwise, my feeling is that your chip is just a slow one, and I'd swap it via that Intel plan.



Ya I have one more older G.Skill 2X2GB 1600 CL9 kit I can slap in, but beyond that...that's all I have for memory and I'm pretty much broke at this point. I did do some research before buying the sniper memory, and it seemed that most that used it with Haswell were running just fine at the 2133 and CL11 timings...with a lot of guys buying 2 kits because they were so happy with them. I'll see if I can't find a 3rd different branded set. I can't really afford different memory, nor does this memory fail memtest or any stress test when the CPU is at stock speeds with the memory is at XMP settings.

I agree my chip is a slow one...I'm really leaning towards the swap via Intel plan.



> After several solid stress testing sessions I've firmed up my settings as far as non-AVX stuff goes. For 24/7 I'm going with 1.275v adaptive mode (that is, 1.275v Additional Turbo Mode for us Asus owners) on both the core and the cache. This gets me 4.7GHz core and 4.5GHz cache. Min cache ratio is 8x, SVID is disabled, input voltage at 1.8v, XMP mode, DDR 2133, command rate reduced to 1, and TFAW increased from 32 to 40. All other settings are left at optimized default. I'm not sure SVID, input voltage, or TFAW have any impact; my earlier complaints about stability turned out to be low core voltage and/or using 4.6GHz cache. 4.8GHz is still possible with a manual 1.34v for non-AVX stuff, but I can't get it to work with adaptive at any setting. Although 1.34v adaptive would pop up to 1.45v for AVX, which is a little too high for my liking anyways.
> 
> From what I can tell, my chip is similar to a lot of people running at 4.4-4.5GHz with 1.25v manual...the difference is that I don't care about AVX, so +headroom for me. I might be a little more fortunate that I have the margin to hit 4.8GHz at 1.34v manual. 4.9GHz is a no-go at 1.4v, and 46x cache is north of 1.325v, and not worth pursuing. Interestingly, I saw significant droop on a 1.325v cache with input voltage at 1.8. It needed 1.86v to keep the core voltage on target. Gotta watch for where that droop starts to happen.



Ya you have a very nice chip compared to mine man! I have tried the TFAW and SVID settings and everything else I can research in this thread and others and what-not. I can't even boot into windows at 4.5! 

I am running 1.8 for input voltage, and even tried 1.85, 1.90, 1.75 and none of them changed stability except 1.75 caused crashing sooner and the higher values causing higher temps.

Thanks for the input and constant support guys! I am heavily leaning towards RMA-ing the chip. I just wanted to see if there was just one more thing I could try yet again that just might...maybe...give me a damn break with OC-ing this chip!   

It's all good though! I think you're right Womper and seeing your settings, and what Dave's recommended over the past weeks/months I've been utilizing this thread as my Haswell OC resource and report area I think I may have exhausted my limited resources. 

Edit: Well Intel's Warranty page is down...guess I have some more time to mess with it.

Edit part deux: RMA initiated...here we go...

Edit part tres: RMA is now active, gonna tear down and ship the CPU out. Will report back in a couple weeks. May be hectic with school, owning a business, family and a job (was hoping to have this PC good to go before school started lol!) but dammit I will figure it out! I'm gonna cross my fingers for an improved replacement!


----------



## Womper (Aug 21, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Edit part tres: RMA is now active, gonna tear down and ship the CPU out. Will report back in a couple weeks. May be hectic with school, owning a business, family and a job (was hoping to have this PC good to go before school started lol!) but dammit I will figure it out! I'm gonna cross my fingers for an improved replacement!



Good luck, hope to see big numbers from the replacement!


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## HammerON (Aug 21, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Ya I have one more older G.Skill 2X2GB 1600 CL9 kit I can slap in, but beyond that...that's all I have for memory and I'm pretty much broke at this point. I did do some research before buying the sniper memory, and it seemed that most that used it with Haswell were running just fine at the 2133 and CL11 timings...with a lot of guys buying 2 kits because they were so happy with them. I'll see if I can't find a 3rd different branded set. I can't really afford different memory, nor does this memory fail memtest or any stress test when the CPU is at stock speeds with the memory is at XMP settings.
> 
> I agree my chip is a slow one...I'm really leaning towards the swap via Intel plan.
> 
> ...



Good call. The volts you required were really high for a slight overclock
I am really interested to see how your new 4770K will overclock...


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## Kursah (Aug 21, 2013)

Thanks guys. I have my fingers crossed the next one is at least average! Granted I would love a 4.6Ghz @ 1.20-1.25v that can run on air! Ha! We shall see! I hope to report back nothing but good news! I also hope to see more good news on the Haswell OC front in this thread while I'm eagerly awaiting my replacement. Thanks again for the suggestions and support folks! I greatly appreciate it!

And Dave, any word on your Haswell OC guide yet? 

Also I've been spreading the word on the $25 Intel Performance Tuning Protection Plan as much as I can here locally and to many of my online buddies...it's amazing how many people had no idea about this program. Can't say I did until I read your OP in this thread.


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## cadaveca (Aug 21, 2013)

Kursah said:


> And Dave, any word on your Haswell OC guide yet?



Been done for some time, just awaiting it's turn on the front page. I have three reviews and the guide waiting, working on review #4 right now; I try to keep a bit ahead.



Kursah said:


> Also I've been spreading the word on the $25 Intel Performance Tuning Protection Plan as much as I can here locally and to many of my online buddies...it's amazing how many people had no idea about this program. Can't say I did until I read your OP in this thread.



I'm probably the only reviewer that mentions it now, it seems. Too bad, too. Thanks for letting people know; it's a cheap service that to me is valuable if you have a conscience.


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## d1nky (Aug 22, 2013)

Ill beat marsey to this one, plugging for the new hwbot tpu team.

some may know the last started in 2005 and died 2010. so im trying to get it back up and active again.

we would love to have many intel guys join and bench for fun. atm its mainly vishera entries.


link in my sig, thanks!


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## TheHunter (Aug 24, 2013)

How far is it safe to push blck @ 100MHz, is 101.6MHz still in the safe zone?


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## Womper (Aug 24, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> How far is it safe to push blck @ 100MHz, is 101.6MHz still in the safe zone?



I was just about to ask the same thing, I'm running 101.2MHz right now.

Also, does anyone know about this microcode stuff for the 4770k? I'm on microcode 9, but some people on hardforum got microcode 12 in a beta BIOS and seem to think it makes a difference with overclocking.

Edit: Didn't last too long in that stress test. The bclk is increasing all of the frequency bins, and with an adaptive voltage, the non-turbo regions don't get extra voltage they might need to handle the increase.


----------



## freeboy (Aug 26, 2013)

Im hitting a wall in the 4.6 / 4.7 range.. I keep having the system boot into windows and either A) downclock to 44( the default) or B)up clock to ram to 2133...  or both note this is some oddity where bios setting are ignored or changed

For example I put in 46 multiplier, and  bclk 100 , with mem at 1333/// 
can come out either of the above.. or blue screen

I'm hoping that this can be eliminated as Im good and stable at 4.5 and low temps and dont have the faintest idea whats happening here Ive done settings for the various power at "auto" no auto, with more or less power...
no idea why this is going on.. should I re install bios..????
fyi bios is f5 updated to F7 no changes 

THEN
I realized in GB boards like mine if you leave Uncore at stock it auto boots it to 40, this was screwing with my settings ..
WOW how simple, things are better with higher uncore, still tuned down... that was a weeks worth of headbanging
Im over the wall and going 
again thanks 

thanks to Dave and all


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## The Von Matrices (Aug 26, 2013)

I just picked up a new i7-4770K.  It's to replace my Xeon E5649 (six core) system that died after about a year of usage.  I'm pretty sure I killed the CPU with too high a VTT/QPI (1.365V), but I did buy that processor used so I have no clue if it was abused by its previous owner.  That said, I'm hoping to have my new CPU last longer than my previous one and I'm going to be a bit more conservative with the overclock this time around.  Below is the picture of the box of the CPU I got.  I haven't seen this lot documented anywhere on the internet so I was curious as to what I could do with it.  I'm planning to keep all the internal voltages below 1.3V for safety's sake.  You can see my exact system to the left.







I started by doing the "litmus test" of Haswell overclocking and set the processor to 4.6GHz and 1.2V.  It booted to UEFI, and I went no further because I was unsure if it would boot to Windows.  So I started low and worked my way up.

After some testing with AIDA64, I couldn't get the CPU past 4.2GHz with 2400MHz memory.  I did a little more reading of various Haswell overclocking guides and decided to drop the memory clock to 1600MHz.  Now I can get 4.4GHz core & 3.9 GHz cache at 1.225V.  AIDA64 has been stable at this for an hour and I have temperatures in the mid 70's.  I want to do more testing and also tweak the memory before I call this a completely stable overclock.

What's really interesting is that the 4.4GHz overclock is stable after an hour of testing, but I can't get to 4.5GHz (at least without going outside my margin of safety).  With the core at 1.3V and the cache at 3.9GHz I can't get the system to remain stable at 4.5GHz in AIDA64 for more than 10 seconds.  I'm not willing to try higher voltage not just to avoid damaging the CPU but especially because I get 95C temperatures at this setting.  This CPU must need 1.35V or more to reach 4.5GHz.  I've overclocked quite a few CPUs and I've never encountered such a steep change in voltage for such a small increase in clock speed.  Does anyone else have this experience with such a wall?

I'm going to keep the 4.4GHz and 1.225V for a few days to confirm stability then i will go on to tweaking the memory.  I'll also provide the obligatory CPU-Z screenshots then.


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## TheHunter (Aug 26, 2013)

Try 2133MHz @ CL9-10-10-28 maybe you will have more luck, btw only 2133MHz uses full memory bandwidth ~34gb/s. 


And Sorry to say this but batch# L307 is kinda bad, that your voltage speaks for itself. 


I have some odd batch too L308B202 although its 100% stable 4.6Ghz @ adaptive 1.234v, cache min 35x; max 42x @ adaptive 1.122v


It can go up to 60-70C per core in x264 video encoder (uses avx) at 100% usage, this is the max i saw.. Usually below 55C in games, ok linx, Prime95, etc can make it 90C (because of adaptive cpuv offset) but i know i will never see such temps real world apps.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 26, 2013)

Batches mean nothing these days... Look at all the information on hwbot for example. People will tell you all over the place that batch really doesnt matter much with SB/IB/Haswell. 



> Does anyone else have this experience with such a wall?


Every chip has this. It is just where the wall is that is the difference. Yours, from this limited preliminary testing, seems like a pretty early wall.


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## TheHunter (Aug 26, 2013)

But so far almost any L307 seems to need more voltage.


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## EarthDog (Aug 26, 2013)

Almost. 

Batch does not matter nearly as much as it did prior to SB. To look at a batch only and say Yay/Nay is premature.


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## Womper (Aug 26, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> I just picked up a new i7-4770K.  It's to replace my Xeon E5649 (six core) system that died after about a year of usage.  I'm pretty sure I killed the CPU with too high a VTT/QPI (1.365V), but I did buy that processor used so I have no clue if it was abused by its previous owner.  That said, I'm hoping to have my new CPU last longer than my previous one and I'm going to be a bit more conservative with the overclock this time around.  Below is the picture of the box of the CPU I got.  I haven't seen this lot documented anywhere on the internet so I was curious as to what I could do with it.  I'm planning to keep all the internal voltages below 1.3V for safety's sake.  You can see my exact system to the left.
> 
> 
> I started by doing the "litmus test" of Haswell overclocking and set the processor to 4.6GHz and 1.2V.  It booted to UEFI, and I went no further because I was unsure if it would boot to Windows.  So I started low and worked my way up.
> ...



Thanks for sharing your data points! And yeah, maybe we should call it Haswall instead of Haswell.



TheHunter said:


> Try 2133MHz @ CL9-10-10-28 maybe you will have more luck, btw only 2133MHz uses full memory bandwidth ~34gb/s.



Ya, 2133MHz seemed to be the sweet spot. In some benchmarks I remember it beat out the next notch up. Turns out Haswell overlocking likes slower memory, so even more reason.


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## freeboy (Aug 26, 2013)

"Haswall instead of Haswell."

lmao

I found an issue for my numbers.. as I was getting stuck with wierdness in mid fours.. I had an error in TOO low uncore ...
goodluck.

Im posting here.. hopefully the correct spot.. 
After lots of frustration stuck in the mid 4's... 4.5 4.6 with low temps reading in the 50's C under high load... I realized my UNCORE at 34 was auto correcting and screwing with the mem....
Changed the uncore to 4.1 to 4.2 and now am running a stable and very hot 4.9.. ouch, it needs some tweeking but Im changing fans to see if I can lower the temps as 4.8 stable and under high load tested at about 85C...

I noted Sin 0822 changed the C3 state from disabled to Auto and got some better results, so that and the Uncore boosted to over 4 has unclogged my "HASWALL" and returned to it Has "WELL" !..
I see and feel the frustrations people have and after a bad mobo and many hours of "walls", to actually have a breakthrough is great and hopefully will encourage those here with decent temps and hitting walls...

My 4.9 settings 

100 BCLK setting at MANUAL
49 ratio
vcvore 1.427
vrin 2.020
ring 1.17
slight boost under .2 to the cpu agent 
vdram 1.7
ram at an underclocked 1333


Good luck all..


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## Kursah (Aug 28, 2013)

Just got my 4770k back from RMA. The new one is still a Malay and has a Batch of L315B355. Here's to hoping I have a decent clocker and performer this time! At least average! Gonna slap it in...might not have time to clock it till this weekend due to my homework load but we'll see what I can accomplish! 

Alright Dave...so far this is a MUCH MUCH MUCH better chip...at least on first impressions. Booted to a freshly cleared BIOS. Stock CPU Voltage is 1.024v, which is quite a bit lower than my first chip's 1.072v. Cache stock is at 1.062v...I don't recall if that was any different on my other chip or not. Did the Asus recommendation, set the voltage to 1.25, and started with 46X CPU multi, left cache on Auto. Booted into windows but BSOD'd shortly after getting to desktop. Hell my last chip wouldn't even POST at that speed iirc! Then I dropped it to 45X, left voltage at 1.25v and so far it's in windows, idling in the low 30's. I haven't stressed it much...and might go back to stock while I get my homework done...but I'm happy I RMA'd so far!


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## cadaveca (Aug 29, 2013)

I doubt 1.06V is stock cache, is probably the board doing that due to settings used. I've seen the same for "stock" cache on all the ASUS boards I've tested, but change cache multi settings, or turn off fully manual mode, and it changes.

But yeah, sounds like you got a better chip, that 1.070V was enough to say it was a dog for sure, and I did say so earlier....

Tuning Plan paid off for you.

You might pull 46 or 47 if lucky, but I think 45 @ 1.25V should be good to go! By my estimations, 1.050V stock = 4.5 GHz @ 1.265V or so.


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## Kursah (Aug 29, 2013)

Well I ran AIDA for a while...but then started up a bunch of stuff and hit a BSOD x124 code at 45X 1.25v...but I also upped memory to 2133. Well I loaded XMP...which now that I think about it you said was a bad idea...so I will redo that whole deal here shortly. But ya so far a much better runner!

I had hope with the 1.070 chip earlier because the first guy on your chart has one and was able to get 4.5 out of 1.2x v. If I can do 4.4 or 4.5 and find easy and close to 1.25v stability I think I'll be good to go.


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## The Von Matrices (Aug 29, 2013)

How do you check the stock voltage on the chip?  Is there a standardized way to do this?


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## freeboy (Aug 29, 2013)

Set the system to stock speed and look at the listed in bios vcore volts reading?


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## Kursah (Aug 29, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> How do you check the stock voltage on the chip?  Is there a standardized way to do this?



Set everything back to AUTO or clear CMOS and go in to BIOS, check CPU voltage before modifying it.


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## Womper (Aug 29, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Did the Asus recommendation, set the voltage to 1.25, and started with 46X CPU multi, left cache on Auto. Booted into windows but BSOD'd shortly after getting to desktop. Hell my last chip wouldn't even POST at that speed iirc! Then I dropped it to 45X, left voltage at 1.25v and so far it's in windows, idling in the low 30's. I haven't stressed it much...and might go back to stock while I get my homework done...but I'm happy I RMA'd so far!



Glad to hear this chip is more promising! That first one was definitely sad. Looking forward to more data points as you get time to test!


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## The Von Matrices (Aug 29, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Set everything back to AUTO or clear CMOS and go in to BIOS, check CPU voltage before modifying it.





freeboy said:


> Set the system to stock speed and look at the listed in bios vcore volts reading?



Yes, but the CPU goes to many frequencies.  Is the "stock" CPU voltage for the 4770K at 3.5GHz with turbo off or at what CPU speed with turbo on?  Or is it something else inbetween?


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## freeboy (Aug 29, 2013)

I would say at stock with turbo off


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## cadaveca (Aug 29, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> Yes, but the CPU goes to many frequencies.  Is the "stock" CPU voltage for the 4770K at 3.5GHz with turbo off or at what CPU speed with turbo on?  Or is it something else inbetween?



Turbo on, in BIOS, after loading "optimized defaults". CPU cache to 35, if board reports cache higher than vCPU.

Some boards use custom Turbo Profiles, for both CPU and cache, which can give false readings, however.


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## The Von Matrices (Aug 29, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Turbo on, in BIOS, after loading "optimized defaults". CPU cache to 35, if board reports cache higher than vCPU.
> 
> Some boards use custom Turbo Profiles, for both CPU and cache, which can give false readings, however.



I know that my board sets the cache multiplier to 39, even with multi-core enhancement disabled.  Does it change the ring voltage because of this?


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## cadaveca (Aug 29, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> I know that my board sets the cache multiplier to 39, even with multi-core enhancement disabled.  Does it change the ring voltage because of this?



Some do. I'm sick, can't recall how your board works at the moment.


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## Mull1s (Aug 29, 2013)

Hello guys, i need some advice on how to get my 4670k stable 
I got the batch L312B529 (no idea if this is a good one or not)

I have been trying to get stable on the following settings but im getting 124 bsods or deep freezes:

Cpu multi 46
Cpu vcore: adaptive 1.332v
Cpu cache multi: 43
Cpu cache voltage: adaptive 1.18V + 0.020 offset = 1.2v total
VCCIN: 1.82
VCCSA offset: +0.050v
IO-Digtal offset: +0.10v
IO-Analog offset: stock
RAM OC: 1600Mhz 1.35V (8-8-8-24 2T) to 2000Mhz 1.5V (9-9-9-24 2T)

Edit: Same settings but Cpu multi at 44 and Vcore on 1.25V has been stable on longer stress testings.

Temps doesnt seem to be an issue for now (im using Corsair H90 Pull+Push).. any ideas on how i can get this OC stable?
Thank you


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## vega22 (Aug 29, 2013)

what is considered safe 24/7 volts for these chips?


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## freeboy (Aug 29, 2013)

Mull1s said:


> Hello guys, i need some advice on how to get my 4670k stable
> I got the batch L312B529 (no idea if this is a good one or not)
> 
> I have been trying to get stable on the following settings but im getting 124 bsods or deep freezes:
> ...


There is a good guide by sin0822 at 
http://www.overclock.net/t/1397693/...scussion-issue-report-club/1020#post_20701051


I recommend trying 45 before 46 and gradually increase vcore 
I would suggest clicking CPU and moving memory lower until CPU stable. 
For me, I lower uncore to 4.0 at those ranges


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## Womper (Aug 29, 2013)

Mull1s said:


> Hello guys, i need some advice on how to get my 4670k stable
> I got the batch L312B529 (no idea if this is a good one or not)
> 
> I have been trying to get stable on the following settings but im getting 124 bsods or deep freezes:
> ...



Increase cache voltage, try 1.25v adaptive or add more offset.
Increase VCCin to 1.85-1.89.

And remember, a 1.332v adaptive voltage means your chip will be at 1.45v during AVX workloads. If you plan on encountering AVX stuff, then you will probably need to increase VCCin to the 1.9v range, maybe even 2.0v. 

For 24/7 I decided to stay under 1.4v even after the +AVX voltage. Also, I have only had success with adaptive voltage in the 1.2x range; when I go after higher frequencies that require static voltages in the 1.3x range, I cannot get a stable adaptive setting, even if it's much higher than the static voltage.

-----> NEWSFLASH <-----

Z87-PLUS/PRO/A/C BIOS 1405
    -Improve system stability.

Nom nom nom. Time to revisit my little 4.8GHz project. And see if this has new microcode too.


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## Kursah (Aug 29, 2013)

Where is this BIOS you speak of? I see 1205 which has been out since July 5th but nada on 1405. Maybe it's not for my PRO?


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## Anusha (Aug 30, 2013)

Anyone using Intel XTU for stress testing? It doesn't spike up the Vcore when using Adaptive Vcore. Does that mean ti is not using AVX instructions in its stress test? 

My 4.4GHz/1.285V (static)/RAM at 1333/9/9/9/24/2t/1.5V and everything else AUTO overclock is not stable at all in Prime95 27.9. I'm wondering if it is not stable only with AVX loads. So I'm running Prime 26.6 (the last one without AVX) to see if it passes. If it does, that probably means it is the AVX loads that is causing the issues. *Intel XTU's stress test runs for 12+hrs* without an issue. 

If Prime95 26.6 passes and 27.9 doesn't, it could also mean that Intel XTU is not using AVX instructions in its stress test. Someone found out that the benchmarking portion of it is using Prime95, but don't know which version. (i.e. whether that supports AVX or not) no idea what the stress test is using. Funnily, the temps are almost identical between H.264 encoding and XTU's stress test.

Then there is another issue. Yesterday I ran a long H.264 encode queue and the system rebooted (no BSOD, no crash dump, no bugcheck entry in eventlog nothing! This is not the first time either.) after 10hrs. So far I haven't found the cause of it. First I thought it was caused by lack of VCCIN (input voltage) as I was at 1.75V which is the AUTO setting for my M6H board. But then again, everyone says you only need to be 0.4V above Vcore, so I definitely am there with only 1.285V static (1.296V is the highest I've seen and 1.75V VCCIN is actually 1.776V after LLC at extreme. That's almost +0.5v).

_It could even be a driver problem. _

Any thoughts on these?


----------



## Kursah (Aug 30, 2013)

I use Intel XTU and then if it passes that from 1-3 hours, I move onto AIDA64. I don't plan on using AVX so I'm not terribly worried about it...but maybe I should be?

Haven't had a whole lotta time to do much with my haswell build, but so far 4.5 @ 1.25v, cache at 8x-40x @ 1.18v, memory manually set to 2133 @ 1.58v (reads 1.60v) at 11-11-11-28 cr1, is so far AIDA and XTU stable! I am just happy as can be! I'm on air, and the highest temps I saw in XTU was 75C, and AIDA was 87C. Which on air and very warm ambient temp I can totally live with! Even my most stressful games won't match either test. Still want to fine tune...but my CPU input voltage is at auto and is reading 1.712v, if it stays stable I'm gonna leave it. All other voltages are auto as well. I did disable SVID. But beyond that I haven't done much beyond the CMOS clear and loading defaults and adjusting as necessary. This chip is AMAZING compared to my previous 4770k!


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## Anusha (Aug 30, 2013)

But it seems a couple of games do use AVX. Crysis 3 and GRID2. I see spikes here and there when I play Crysis 3 with Adaptive Vcore. Don't have GRID2 to check it. 

Plus, H.264 encoding uses AVX as well.

So you cannot say you won't use AVX. But definitely not as heavily as Prime95.


----------



## Womper (Aug 30, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Where is this BIOS you speak of? I see 1205 which has been out since July 5th but nada on 1405. Maybe it's not for my PRO?



http://support.asus.com/Download.as...e=Z87-PRO-ASUS-1405.zip#Z87-PRO-ASUS-1405.zip



Anusha said:


> Anyone using Intel XTU for stress testing? It doesn't spike up the Vcore when using Adaptive Vcore. Does that mean ti is not using AVX instructions in its stress test?



Correct, Intel XTU does not use AVX instructions.



Anusha said:


> Then there is another issue. Yesterday I ran a long H.264 encode queue and the system rebooted (no BSOD, no crash dump, no bugcheck entry in eventlog nothing! This is not the first time either.) after 10hrs.



That happened to me sometimes also. You probably aren't 24/7 stable for AVX instructions.



Kursah said:


> I use Intel XTU and then if it passes that from 1-3 hours, I move onto AIDA64. I don't plan on using AVX so I'm not terribly worried about it...but maybe I should be?
> 
> Haven't had a whole lotta time to do much with my haswell build, but so far 4.5 @ 1.25v, cache at 8x-40x @ 1.18v, memory manually set to 2133 @ 1.58v (reads 1.60v) at 11-11-11-28 cr1, is so far AIDA and XTU stable! I am just happy as can be! I'm on air, and the highest temps I saw in XTU was 75C, and AIDA was 87C. Which on air and very warm ambient temp I can totally live with! Even my most stressful games won't match either test. Still want to fine tune...but my CPU input voltage is at auto and is reading 1.712v, if it stays stable I'm gonna leave it. All other voltages are auto as well. I did disable SVID. But beyond that I haven't done much beyond the CMOS clear and loading defaults and adjusting as necessary. This chip is AMAZING compared to my previous 4770k!



Awesome dude!



Anusha said:


> But it seems a couple of games do use AVX. Crysis 3 and GRID2. I see spikes here and there when I play Crysis 3 with Adaptive Vcore. Don't have GRID2 to check it.
> 
> Plus, H.264 encoding uses AVX as well.
> 
> So you cannot say you won't use AVX. But definitely not as heavily as Prime95.



Even a static voltage setting can handle a few AVX instructions sprinkled in a game that only uses a couple cores. The same reason that Per-Core overclocking works- if only 1 or 2 cores are getting used, you can run at higher MHz. When you start running a benchmark that hits all cores, then you need all that extra voltage.


----------



## Big Texas (Aug 30, 2013)

With this stock voltage
http://valid.canardpc.com/2895895

shouldn't I be able to get 4.5 ghz under 1.25v?

i'm having weird 124 bsod's sometimes and can't tell what it is.

running 4.0ghz/3.9ghz cache 2400mhz memory @ 1.050v vCore stable right now with no tuning.


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## cadaveca (Aug 30, 2013)

Big Texas said:


> With this stock voltage
> http://valid.canardpc.com/2895895
> 
> shouldn't I be able to get 4.5 ghz under 1.25v?
> ...



Look at higher vCACHE, VCCSA, VCCAIO, VCCDIO. What are they at?

Under 1.25 V? Maybe. Might take a bit more, or a bit less, I think. Let's try. 

How much mem, what model, and what are timings?


----------



## Big Texas (Aug 30, 2013)

here's what my bios is giving me

1.040 vcore
1.032 vring
0.848 vSA
1.008 vIO Digital

it's G.Skill Ripjaws X 2400 mhz 2x4gb @ 1.65v 10-12-12-31 in xmp


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 30, 2013)

Big Texas said:


> here's what my bios is giving me
> 
> 1.040 vcore
> 1.032 vring
> ...




try 1.050V VCCSA and IO's Set Vring to 1.15 V for 39. try 1.265V and 45 multi on all cores.


----------



## Anusha (Aug 30, 2013)

Dave, is playing with VCCSA, VCCIO only applicable if you have fast (i.e. 1866 or faster) RAM? Or can it still make things more stable if you are running them at 1333? What about having 4 sticks of 1600 CL9 1.5V ones like the Vengeance sticks?


----------



## TheHunter (Aug 30, 2013)

Kursah said:


> but my CPU input voltage is at auto and is reading 1.712v, if it stays stable I'm gonna leave it. All other voltages are auto as well. I did disable SVID.



SVID is input voltage, if you disable it will stick at ~ 1.70V. Leave it at auto (usually settles at 1.79v). I end up at auto and its always at 1.79v. 


And some of my OC experiences ,
 Im now at 4.6Ghz for over 2 weeks and its still stable in everything, the only bsod at end was to low cache voltage.


At first
cpu x46 @ adaptive 1.239v (LLC 5) 
cache x35-41 @ adaptive 1.115v 
but it wasnt completely it..

now I have 
cpu x46 @ adaptive 1.234v (LLC6) 
cache adaptive x35-42 @ adaptive 1.122v (can go up to 1.148v in avx) 
*in both cases ram XMP @ 2133mhz 1.65v 4x4 CL9 

and yeah its great






Max temps per core 75-70-69-65C


----------



## Womper (Aug 30, 2013)

Womper said:


> Z87-PLUS/PRO/A/C BIOS 1405
> -Improve system stability.
> 
> Nom nom nom. Time to revisit my little 4.8GHz project. And see if this has new microcode too.



Ran through some configs last night, and so far I haven't noticed any difference. 4.9 and 5.0 GHz still require the same voltages to boot, so no magic there. I was not able to drop voltage on my 24/7 either. I was able to run 4.8GHz @ 1.34v adaptive, but it is unclear if that's due to the new BIOS or the higher 1.89v Vin I used. On the previous BIOS, I had used only 1.8v Vin at this setting, and it wasn't stable even though 1.34v manual was.

No new microcode with this BIOS; my CPU is still on 9. Other motherboard brands introduced microcode 12 in their latest BIOS's.

Also, the 1405 BIOS chooses a TFAW of 20 for my 2133 memory, even though 1207 chose 32. I set this back to 40.



TheHunter said:


> SVID is input voltage, if you disable it will stick at ~ 1.70V. Leave it at auto (usually settles at 1.79v). I end up at auto and its always at 1.79v.
> 
> 
> And some of my OC experiences ,
> ...



Thanks for the info, I didn't realize adaptive cache voltage saw a little +AVX voltage like that.


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 30, 2013)

Anusha said:


> Dave, is playing with VCCSA, VCCIO only applicable if you have fast (i.e. 1866 or faster) RAM? Or can it still make things more stable if you are running them at 1333? What about having 4 sticks of 1600 CL9 1.5V ones like the Vengeance sticks?



It depends on the CPU. @ 1600 MHz, I would be looking at timings as a fault rather than voltages, however. At the same time, I do think that all voltages in the chip kept within specific ratios of each other can be beneficial as well. For example, some CPUs have stock cache voltages higher than CPU voltage, and vice versa, VCCIO's and VCCSA are different on different chips, too, as is the FIVR voltage. SO there's no real general rule for these things, we all should have slightly different, although similar, experiences.



Womper said:


> Thanks for the info, I didn't realize adaptive cache voltage saw a little  AVX voltage like that.



Seems to depends on board and BIOS, the best I can tell.


----------



## TheHunter (Aug 30, 2013)

Yeah at first it was always ~1.045v - 1.128v (Aida64 monitoring), when I tried to encode or test x264 benchmark I noticed few spikes to 1.148v (by both x41 or x42 cache).

Adaptive 1.110-1.118v wasn't enough and bsod 0x124 or random reboot.

I guess its similar to normal cpu adaptive but with very small boost 0.02v max. 
_Or _ like Dave said maybe its a DIGI+ thing


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 30, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> _Or _ like Dave said maybe its a DIGI+ thing




Yeah, some boards offer just offsets. some offer manual settings. The differing options and what voltage mode is used is going to affect it, I think. If the multi is static, and so is the voltage, no boost, like CPU?


----------



## TheHunter (Aug 30, 2013)

I think, I didnt test it like so yet. 


I switched from fixed to adaptive and always thought it doesnt go over like by fixed voltage.. But then again 0.02v is not much



(x35 cache) web browsing idle voltages and finally end of summer cool temps


----------



## Mull1s (Aug 30, 2013)

freeboy said:


> There is a good guide by sin0822 at
> 
> I recommend trying 45 before 46 and gradually increase vcore
> I would suggest clicking CPU and moving memory lower until CPU stable.
> For me, I lower uncore to 4.0 at those ranges






Womper said:


> Increase cache voltage, try 1.25v adaptive or add more offset.
> Increase VCCin to 1.85-1.89.
> 
> And remember, a 1.332v adaptive voltage means your chip will be at 1.45v during AVX workloads. If you plan on encountering AVX stuff, then you will probably need to increase VCCin to the 1.9v range, maybe even 2.0v.
> ...




Thx for the good info, i am now running a stable 4.5Ghz Clock but i would really like to reach 4.6.
What i did was raising Vccin to 1.88 and changed my adaptive volt to 1.275v manual.

Im thinking maybe some of Asus Digi+ VRM settings could help me provide some stability?
They are untouched at the moment! 

Picture below shows the options and this isnt what i got it set!





Could i change something here to reach 4.6?
Thanks again!


----------



## vega22 (Aug 30, 2013)

just wanted to post and share my first hw oc with you 

http://valid.canardpc.com/2897426

nothing to right home about but i wasnt playing for long with the oc, had other issues i needed to work out xD


----------



## Anusha (Aug 30, 2013)

if i set the memory to 1600, i would get *rounding errors* (not BSODs) in in-place large FFT of Prime95 :-/ (i run large FFT with 3 minute each test as it seems to catch instability fastest with this chip.)
1333 seems to work fine. 

tried the following
1. increase Vmem to 1.65
2. increase VCCIO by +0.2 offset
3. increase VCCSA by +0.05 offset
4. increase VRING from 1.08V to 1.1V
5. increase Vcore from 1.25 to 1.26V (usually 1.24V is stable at least for many hrs)

any ideas? should i have increased VRING more?

I have two sets of these RAM.

maybe this board/CPU doesn't like these RAM. the RAM only supports XMP v1.2 while the current version is v1.3. Maybe it sets some timings incorrectly?


----------



## vega22 (Aug 30, 2013)

i would give the ram a bit more juice before i looked at other things. just like the vcore the vdimm will have vdrop and droop.

i would go to 1.68 and still consider it "stock" volts tbh.


----------



## Womper (Aug 30, 2013)

Mull1s said:


> Thx for the good info, i am now running a stable 4.5Ghz Clock but i would really like to reach 4.6.
> What i did was raising Vccin to 1.88 and changed my adaptive volt to 1.275v manual.
> 
> Im thinking maybe some of Asus Digi+ VRM settings could help me provide some stability?
> ...



Personally, I haven't noticed any impact from tweaking the Digi settings.



Anusha said:


> if i set the memory to 1600, i would get *rounding errors* (not BSODs) in in-place large FFT of Prime95 :-/ (i run large FFT with 3 minute each test as it seems to catch instability fastest with this chip.)
> 1333 seems to work fine.
> 
> tried the following
> ...



You might need to go over your memory's timings in the BIOS and set them to what the RAM is actually rated for. Maybe you can toss the memory into a different computer and run Memtest to make sure they haven't gone bad?


----------



## TheHunter (Aug 30, 2013)

I tweaked DIGI+ a bit and this works ok at 4.4 - 4.6Ghz.

lowered LLC to 6 (auto is 8) 
Set both cpu & ram phases to Optimized and kept VRM spread enabled
Raised Cpu Current to 120%

rest at auto or default


----------



## Anusha (Aug 31, 2013)

Womper said:


> You might need to go over your memory's timings in the BIOS and set them to what the RAM is actually rated for. Maybe you can toss the memory into a different computer and run Memtest to make sure they haven't gone bad?


primary timings are set properly. 9-9-9-24-2T no big deal. i'll remove two sticks and see.


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 31, 2013)

Anusha said:


> primary timings are set properly. 9-9-9-24-2T no big deal. i'll remove two sticks and see.



it's the other timings that matter on haswell, since some have changed compared to previous paltforms.


----------



## vega22 (Aug 31, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> it's the other timings that matter on haswell, since some have changed compared to previous paltforms.



dave i have that many sub timings now i dont know where to start 

clock for clock 1150 seems to be worse than 1155 for me atm 

update


----------



## Anusha (Aug 31, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> it's the other timings that matter on haswell, since some have changed compared to previous paltforms.


how do i know which ones to change to which ones? 
they are not usually listed in RAM's specs, right?

edit:
wait a second. i'm not sure if i had the RAM at AUTO timings + 1600MHz or 1600MHz XMP. I've just set it to 1600MHz XMP and now checking if i get rounding errors. hold on.


----------



## Big Texas (Aug 31, 2013)

curious how you guys are running your VCCIN voltage...

i'm at 1.7v for 4.5ghz core@1.25v/4ghz cache@auto volts with ram @ 2400 mhz 1.65v.


----------



## Anusha (Aug 31, 2013)

Big Texas said:


> curious how you guys are running your VCCIN voltage...
> 
> i'm at 1.7v for 4.5ghz core@1.25v/4ghz cache@auto volts with ram @ 2400 mhz 1.65v.


i'm at AUTO (1.75) with LLC level 6 (max level 8). 
i wonder if lowering it would improve thermals. even 1 degree is better than nothing.

but my CPU is a dog. i can only clock to 4.3GHz with Vcore keeping below 1.3V. 4.3GHz @ 1.24V now.


----------



## vega22 (Aug 31, 2013)

Big Texas said:


> curious how you guys are running your VCCIN voltage...
> 
> i'm at 1.7v for 4.5ghz core@1.25v/4ghz cache@auto volts with ram @ 2400 mhz 1.65v.



vcore + 0.4v  seems to be the sweet spot for me


----------



## Anusha (Aug 31, 2013)

marsey99 said:


> vcore + 0.4v  seems to be the sweet spot for me


LLC at extreme? What if you don't use LLC? 

What if you are using adaptive? Say you put 1.2V adaptive. It might go up to 1.3V when AVX instructions are heavily used. Then it should be 1.7V instead of 1.6V. Which one should we use? 1.6V or 1.7V?


----------



## freeboy (Aug 31, 2013)

My understanding with my board, GB UD4H, is that this is a setting that is always used by profile, so it has a range from nominal to extreme of about 6 or 7 steps or stages...  and is used to counter droop... sorry if this does not help...


----------



## TheHunter (Aug 31, 2013)

Anusha said:


> LLC at extreme? What if you don't use LLC?
> 
> What if you are using adaptive? Say you put 1.2V adaptive. It might go up to 1.3V when AVX instructions are heavily used. Then it should be 1.7V instead of 1.6V. Which one should we use? 1.6V or 1.7V?



1.7V is the default "lowest", intel "recommends" 1.8v.


If you dont use LLC, ie use at lvl1 then you'll probably need more vcore. LLC 6-7 is ~ 65-85%


----------



## vega22 (Aug 31, 2013)

Anusha said:


> LLC at extreme? What if you don't use LLC?
> 
> What if you are using adaptive? Say you put 1.2V adaptive. It might go up to 1.3V when AVX instructions are heavily used. Then it should be 1.7V instead of 1.6V. Which one should we use? 1.6V or 1.7V?



i dont use adaptive when i am running it on the higher multi tbh dude. all power saving stuff is off and its full speed all the time.


----------



## Kursah (Aug 31, 2013)

Well another small update, I am down to 1.241v on my CPU at Manual for now while I find stability, then will further test with adaptive. I have Cache at 1.16v (adaptive now works correctly after 1405 bios update!) and set to 8X-40X. I see some people run 35X-xxX mutli...is there any good info on this yet? Maybe I missed it? I kind of like the thought of my cache going to idle with CPU clocks...but maybe that's not how the cache is supposed to work?

I've been playing with the ASUS Realbench stress test, and found some of my settings before weren't stable in Realbench or Wargame: EE...but were in AIDA and Intel XTU. ATM, my stability is swapped...Wargame: EE passed 2 hours without a single glitch and may be the longest single session I've had it stable for yet..and Realbench passed 5 passes and stress test with current settings. Last time I tried AIDA and XTU both caused the x124 bsod but that was before I further increased vcore back into the 1.24'x from 1.23's. I may not have a golden chip, but it has been a pleasure to work with thus far!

I plan to see if I can attain 41-42X cache on low voltage. My CPU input voltage is still 1.72v as AUTO dictates, but honestly if my gaming and an AVX stress test are stable I may leave it that way. We'll see as I get more time to play with it!


----------



## Womper (Aug 31, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Well another small update, I am down to 1.241v on my CPU at Manual for now while I find stability, then will further test with adaptive. I have Cache at 1.16v (adaptive now works correctly after 1405 bios update!) and set to 8X-40X. I see some people run 35X-xxX mutli...is there any good info on this yet? Maybe I missed it? I kind of like the thought of my cache going to idle with CPU clocks...but maybe that's not how the cache is supposed to work?
> 
> I've been playing with the ASUS Realbench stress test, and found some of my settings before weren't stable in Realbench or Wargame: EE...but were in AIDA and Intel XTU. ATM, my stability is swapped...Wargame: EE passed 2 hours without a single glitch and may be the longest single session I've had it stable for yet..and Realbench passed 5 passes and stress test with current settings. Last time I tried AIDA and XTU both caused the x124 bsod but that was before I further increased vcore back into the 1.24'x from 1.23's. I may not have a golden chip, but it has been a pleasure to work with thus far!
> 
> I plan to see if I can attain 41-42X cache on low voltage. My CPU input voltage is still 1.72v as AUTO dictates, but honestly if my gaming and an AVX stress test are stable I may leave it that way. We'll see as I get more time to play with it!



What CPU clock are you able to do at 1.241v?

Cool, so maybe that BIOS update did help me get 1.34v adaptive working. Now the question is whether 1.34v adaptive is too dangerous. I don't plan on running hardcore AVX workloads, so how bad is the occasional jump to 1.45v if a game has a few AVX instructions?


----------



## vega22 (Sep 1, 2013)

4.2ghz uncore


----------



## Kursah (Sep 1, 2013)

Womper said:


> What CPU clock are you able to do at 1.241v?
> 
> Cool, so maybe that BIOS update did help me get 1.34v adaptive working. Now the question is whether 1.34v adaptive is too dangerous. I don't plan on running hardcore AVX workloads, so how bad is the occasional jump to 1.45v if a game has a few AVX instructions?



Oh ya I forgot to post that lol. 1.241v at 4.5Ghz. 

I would assume that a few shots up to 1.45v aren't going to be too detrimental...but I don't know how bad degradation is with these chips compared to older ones. You've got the $25 RMA plan right? If so I'd say go for it, as you said, if you don't do hardcore AVX workloads I can't imagine it'd be a big deal.


----------



## Kursah (Sep 1, 2013)

Hey anyone running an OC'd Haswell setup with 4dimms full of memory faster than 1600? I'm thinking about getting another set of my 2133 before I can't afford to...8GB is fine..I should've jumped for 16GB but can't afford to atm. I'm curious how 4 dimms would stress the IMC, maybe need to increase vMem and Vccio? I am assuming that OC stability may be comprimised as any chipset before-hand with onboard IMC was...but I haven't had a system with a 4.5GHz clock and 4dimms full up and knowing how touchy Haswell can be..I was just curious...


----------



## HammerON (Sep 1, 2013)

I am running these at 4.4 GHz with no issues:
G.SKILL Trident X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DD...


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 1, 2013)

There is also a new bios for Asus Z87 Deluxe


Z87-DELUXE BIOS 1405
*Improve system stability.

File Size 5.3 MBytes
update 2013/08/30
https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z87DELUXE/#support_Download_36


----------



## PolRoger (Sep 2, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Hey anyone running an OC'd Haswell setup with 4dimms full of memory faster than 1600?



I've been running full bank with a 4x4GB kit @2133C8. Looks to be fairly stable(?)... 42(+) hrs. 100% load "crunching" Rosetta.



TheHunter said:


> There is also a new bios for Asus Z87 Deluxe
> 
> 
> Z87-DELUXE BIOS 1405
> ...



Hopefully we'll see some stability improvements with this new BIOS?? I'm going to flash over soon. One thing I miss about the ROG series vs. regular ASUS boards is the more frequent BIOS updating that is done... including "betas" etc that are released.

On a side note... This past Friday I decided to flash the BIOS on my old "email rig" (ASUS MVGene/3570K) and I apparently was a careless "bonehead" and "bricked" the BIOS chip! 

At least the Maximus V Gene has a replaceable BIOS chip and a new one can be ordered for ~$15. :shadedshu


----------



## freeboy (Sep 2, 2013)

is the chip really dead? wow, I would think you at worst should only be able to damage the firmware.. leading to some reloading.. That suxx


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 2, 2013)

PolRoger said:


> I've been running full bank with a 4x4GB kit @2133C8. Looks to be fairly stable(?)... 42(+) hrs. 100% load "crunching" Rosetta.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I flashed it ok, but now I noticed I need more voltage at x42 cache, it could bsod or hard freeze in heavy memory loads.. Idk maybe I wasnt completely stable x42 1.122v by default, I was running unlocker 1.9.2 (file unlock) and that thing stressed my cpu to the max and used ~ 4gb ram. I fixed it with lower x41 cache or at x42 and adaptive voltage 1.13v

 Well I ran more stressful apps/games before so this got me a little baffled lol



btw you have a very nice chip, 1.21v @ 4.6Ghz looks sweet 


@Kursah

4x4 memory config is fine, im using 4x4 2133mhz CL9 kit and it rocks, I can OC to 2666mhz CL11-13-13-30 (1.65v) with cpu at 4.6Ghz (4.2ghz cache) and its still ok.

I have this Balistix Elite kit
http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/333...eview-three-high-end-memory-kits-from-crucial




cadaveca said:


> [
> 
> 
> infos:|
> ...





Sorry i mixed it my default cpu is 0.976v cache is  correct 0.977v


and my final OC for now, 4.6Ghz @1.235v|cache 4.2Ghz @ 1.13v, rest is as it is.
http://valid.canardpc.com/qc9z6q


----------



## Anusha (Sep 3, 2013)

ever since using XMP profile for my RAM, i didn't get any rounding errors in Prime95.  it definitely must have been an issue with the tertiary timings that the motherboard chooses for AUTO. 

reinstalling Windows seems to have fixed my sudden reboots that didn't give any BSOD/bugcheck codess. it could have been some corrupted system file. but i didn't install AISuite this time around. maybe it could be the reason. sorry cannot really narrow down. i don't wanna test it either. haven't had any issues for 3 days. played a lot of Crysis 3, encoded a lot of videos through Handbrake. stable enough for me.


----------



## Womper (Sep 6, 2013)

I want to go after some lower voltages for 4.8GHz. I'm concerned by some people's reports of degradation after playing around with 1.35-1.4v, although since all of them delidded, I'll blame that first. Right now, my known good for 4.8GHz is 1.34v, which in adaptive mode means 1.45v if an AVX instruction sneaks in. I'm going to see if I can get closer to 1.3v by reducing uncore and playing with the more obscure BIOS settings.

With the 1207 BIOS, XTU crashed after 40 minutes, but yesterday I completed 1hr. I expect XTU to fail eventually with such a low voltage, so either it was a good run, or the 1405 BIOS helped a bit.



Didn't get anything after trying lower uncore ratios and playing with various settings. 4.8GHz isn't worth the 2.5% performance gain- DDR 2133 versus 1600 will show a larger difference than that I think. 4.8 yields a whole 1.25 fps gain in Planetside 2. Although, 4.7GHz is definitely 1.24x faster than stock- after finding CPU-limited areas within the game, I alt-tabbed out to the XTU to set core and cache ratios back and forth between 39x/39x and 47x/45x, and if I saw say 55fps at 39x, then 47x would yield 65fps- almost perfect performance scaling with the CPU frequency.

I probably said before that Firefall would benefit similarly, but in the situations where I saw low FPS (that is, 40's with dips to high 20's), I did not see any difference while switching between ratios. Additionally, the XTU indicated that CPU speed was all over the place, rather than staying at turbo. This means either the GPU is the bottleneck, or the game needs code improvements.


----------



## freeboy (Sep 13, 2013)

did Dabve's OC guide ever get released? 
Dave man whats up?


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 13, 2013)

While you are waiting...

http://www.overclockers.com/3step-guide-to-overclock-intel-haswell

... some things need updated, but, you will get the general idea at least.


----------



## freeboy (Sep 13, 2013)

I like that, much simpler , not better , than sin's guide.. I read a lot of this stuff... Seems after you get a good clock dialing it in is a lot of the secondary settings test and retest.. thanks for the heads up though


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 13, 2013)

freeboy said:


> did Dabve's OC guide ever get released?
> Dave man whats up?



http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Haswell_OC_Guide/


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 13, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Haswell_OC_Guide/



My god! its here!


----------



## HammerON (Sep 13, 2013)

Thanks Dave!!!
Can't wait until I get home to read through it


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 13, 2013)

Thanks Dave! Had a quick read through, and it is well done!


----------



## Kursah (Sep 14, 2013)

Great read Dave!

I do have a question where I wonder if you could elaborate a bit more on disabling the i-GPU BEFORE installing the OS. I was wondering what difference it may or may not make? I haven't disabled my i-GPU...let alone see any settings (though I haven't really looked either) to disable it offhand yet I have not installed drivers nor see it detected in device manager. You say a temp reduction of up to 30C...that' s HUGE! I may have to play with this aspect...I'm assuming with my dedicated GPU maybe the i-GPU is automatically disabled? Which is what I'm kind of hoping for in all honesty. I suppose I need to do my part and dig into it on my end. I will note that my Windows 8 experience has been great so far! Not really missing 7 all that bad. Sure I have my habits, but the more I get used to Win8 the more I like it, how fast and smooth it runs...I haven't ran into any bugs...nor do I mess with the Windows Apps or App Store yet.

But back to why I wanted to post here...I am still fine tuning my OC...got some time last night to play Wargame AA for about an hour. After hours and hours of stability testing through the weeks prior to actually playing lol.

I found that I am currently stable at 4.5Ghz @ 1.241v. To be gaming stable I had to increase VRIN to 1.80v from 1.75v. Maximum temps while gaming? 70C. I can live with that! And with fall coming and cool weather, seeing 70c is going to become a less frequent occurence.

I also have the cpu cache at 8x-40x, using Auto (reading 1.16v) will manually set. Not sure I care to push past 40x. 

Memory manually set, not using XMP. 2133 @ 11-11-11-28 cl1 @ 1.58v (reads 1.60v)

This system is running great! I am sooo happy I RMA'd my cpu!


----------



## HammerON (Sep 14, 2013)

Yeah - RMAing your first CPU was a good call


----------



## sno.lcn (Sep 14, 2013)

My latest 4770k batch


----------



## HammerON (Sep 15, 2013)

LN?
Nice clock


----------



## sno.lcn (Sep 15, 2013)

Yep


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 16, 2013)

Ok I found the cause for low ram bandwidth on my mobo 

Its DRAM Clk Period that makes a big difference; Im at 9 atm and at 9 it looks like its default 2133mhz (few major adv. timings), 1-2 even tighter

2133mhz speed & timings








2400mhz CL10-12-11-32-2T





I think i will need to fine tune some more, 2 times it auto shut down (used 7), 1 time it froze in x264 benchmark (at 8and little looser timing).


old 2400mhz score at auto Dram clk period




&
timings
http://abload.de/image.php?img=2133mhzcl9xts1k.png


EDIT: 9 wasnt stable, pc shutdown again.. I will try even looser main timings, well its DRAM period @ 10 that makes this slow read/copy speed -_-


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 16, 2013)

I assume CL? Did you raise the voltage any when trying lower(tighter) timings?


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 17, 2013)

DRAM clk period at 9, last time I left all timings at auto except main and this DRAM clk period. 


Im at 2200mhz (~ 33.5gb/s read) atm same timings like by 2133 and DRAM clk 9..No random shutdowns yet.. 


I will try 2400mhz @ CL10 -12-12-31 or CL11-11-11-31 if i have any luck.. I've been ok at 2666mhz CL11-13-13-31 (same 1.65v) but yeah @ DRAM clk period - auto (which is probably 10 or 11) and slow speeds.


----------



## PolRoger (Sep 17, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Ok I found the cause for low ram bandwidth on my mobo
> 
> Its DRAM Clk Period that makes a big difference; Im at 9 atm and at 9 it looks like its default 2133mhz (few major adv. timings), 1-2 even tighter
> 
> ...




I've always wondered what was causing poor bandwidth on the Z-87 Deluxe at higher dram speeds... Which is why I settled on 2133C8 for my daily overclock. Hopefully I can test again and get some better results with 2400/2666 etc.


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 17, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Ok I found the cause for low ram bandwidth on my mobo
> 
> Its DRAM Clk Period that makes a big difference; Im at 9 atm and at 9 it looks like its default 2133mhz (few major adv. timings), 1-2 even tighter
> 
> ...



I have a sneaking suspicion that there are other timings changing as well. You should try using MemTweakIt when doing memory tweaking, as it'll hold far more timing information than what AIDA64 offers, and I recommend paying attention to the changes on the right column of timings in MemTweakIt as you make other changes.



Kursah said:


> Great read Dave!
> 
> I do have a question where I wonder if you could elaborate a bit more on disabling the i-GPU BEFORE installing the OS. I was wondering what difference it may or may not make? I haven't disabled my i-GPU...let alone see any settings (though I haven't really looked either) to disable it offhand yet I have not installed drivers nor see it detected in device manager. You say a temp reduction of up to 30C...that' s HUGE! I may have to play with this aspect...I'm assuming with my dedicated GPU maybe the i-GPU is automatically disabled? Which is what I'm kind of hoping for in all honesty. I suppose I need to do my part and dig into it on my end. I will note that my Windows 8 experience has been great so far! Not really missing 7 all that bad. Sure I have my habits, but the more I get used to Win8 the more I like it, how fast and smooth it runs...I haven't ran into any bugs...nor do I mess with the Windows Apps or App Store yet.



If the iGPU is enabled when you install the OS, the driver gets installed as well. This will have the GPU active, although not used. Then should you install some software that supports using the iGPU for encoding or such, it can get used by that software. Both Windows7 and Windows8 seem to install drivers for the iGPU automatically. Once the drivers are there, it can be hard to get them removed, and still have a booting OS. Not all boards are going to result in the iGPU being enabled/active, and I noticed a few boards behave a bit differently here with the iGPU once a few BIOS updates came out, too. Crazyeyesreaper was using the GPU itself, and no add-in card, and was expecting the same sort of clocks, so that needed to be addressed as well. I was more covering all of the basics I could think of in the "guide".

Quite a few "enthusiast"-grade boards automatically turn off the iGPU, but not all do. I think ti's very worthwhile to make sure that things are working "as expected" when it comes to the iGPU, for sure.


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 17, 2013)

@PolRoger

Yes its definitely DRAM clk period, @ 10 it kills the performance by read/copy. DRAM clk @ 9 looks ideal for 2400/2600/2666

but yeah its giving me some hard time, maybe i need to adjust cpu offset IO voltages etc that what Asus "recommends" if OC'ing ram?



I settled @ 2200mhz for now, DRAM clk period - 8 and same timings like by 2133mhz CL9-10-10-27-1T






@Cadaveca

I noticed 
tWR is now 16; in one older screen it was at 27 @ 2133mhz

tRFC @ DRAM 8 its 160, @ DRAM 9 171, @ DRAM clk 10 its 177

tFAW @ DRAM 8 30 or @ DRAM 9 32; default @ 2133mhz is 32

tREF period @ DRAM 9 its the same like by default 2133mhz


other stuff stayed around the same, like tIOL and tRTL 


I will try Memtweak one time to see what's up, thanks


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 17, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> s its definitely DRAM clk period, @ 10 it kills the perf. 9 seems ideal for 2400/2600/2666
> 
> but yeah its giving me some hard time, maybe i need to adjust cpu offset IO voltages etc that what Asus "recommends" if OC'ing ram?




DRAM CLK Period = DRAM WRITE CAS LATENCY

WRITE CAS LATENCY (tWCL) support is all about the memory, combined with the clock used, 99% of the time. Try higher vDIMM. Back with Z77 or Z68 I wrote about twcl in the Samsung LP/LV memory review.

That's what Earthdog was on about, anyway, it's tWCL, and yeah, try higher voltage on memory.


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 17, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> DRAM CLK Period = DRAM WRITE CAS LATENCY
> 
> WRITE CAS LATENCY (tWCL) support is all about the memory, combined with the clock used, 99% of the time. Try higher vDIMM. Back with Z77 or Z68 I wrote about twcl in the Samsung LP/LV memory review.
> 
> That's what Earthdog was on about, anyway, it's tWCL, and yeah, try higher voltage on memory.



Ah right and thanks I didnt know whats the proper name for it, yeah that makes a lot of sense, reminds me of my old x48 memory perf. level, 450mhz fsb and perf.lvl 7 was a tough one 


Now I see default 2133mhz uses tWLC 8 and yet it has higher tRFC and tREF, hmm I guess its Crucial own thing.. The funny thing is ram is fine at default 1.65v and 2666mhz CL11-13-13-33-2T and auto tWLC, but yeah low speeds.. 
Digi+ ram 110% and phase - optimized.


What if I used higher main settings and stayed at 1.65v? For example CL11-13-13-32-2T and maybe raise 2-3 timings like tRFC , tFAW and tWR? Because I didint try those yet, only main timings CL10-12-12-32 or CL11-11-11-31.


----------



## PolRoger (Sep 17, 2013)

I always thought that there was room for improvement with the Z-87 Deluxe's default auto settings for 2400 and higher memory speeds. It seems that this board's 2133 speed settings with DRAM Clock Period left on "Auto" always offered the best performance of the three AIDA bandwidth numbers.

Here are two examples at 2400 9-11-11-28-2T... Everything else on auto except DRAM Clock Period which is set at either 9 or 10. This setting will affect (change/tighten) other secondary/tertiary settings and improve the AIDA bandwidth benchmark.


----------



## SimpleTECH (Sep 17, 2013)

I'm having the hardest time getting my Samsung Green LV to 2400MHz.  I can boot with single-channel but cannot get both of them to work at the same time.  I tried increasing vDIMM to 1.70v, changing the command rate to 2T, increasing System Agent voltage to 0.250v offset.


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 18, 2013)

^
I see you have this tWLC at 8, try 9 and raise main timings to lets say CL11-12-12-31-2T if it makes any difference.


----------



## SimpleTECH (Sep 18, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> ^
> I see you have this tWLC at 8, try 9 and raise main timings to lets say CL11-12-12-31-2T if it makes any difference.



Nope, no difference.  

I really want to get my hands on an ASUS board.  I remember being able to hit 2400MHz with my old Z77 Deluxe.  But atlas, I sold it.  :shadedshu


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 18, 2013)

Then maybe you need to fine tune ram/cpu offset IO specific voltages..


Well I didnt have much luck with 2400mhz either, its not stable even at CL11-13-13-32-2T.. Im scarred to go over 1.65v because mobo sometimes overvolts to 1.668v.


But I played with cpu OC some more,

4.8ghz boots @1.28v, fails to boot in windows until 1.31v

I tried 5ghz and it boots @1.30v until halfway in windows8, I guess ~ 1.35v should do the trick, but I wasnt comfortable to run at that voltage


4.7Ghz atm @1.285v in bios, I think this is the max voltage for 24/7


 

 

 

 

Cinebench11.5 scored 10.37, best so far was 10.34, maybe 2200mhz ram helped


----------



## SimpleTECH (Sep 19, 2013)

Turns out it was the boards.  Got a Maximus VI Hero and can do 2400MHz with these sticks.  Granted I'm using a different CPU but my other one should do the same. 






EDIT:

Was able to do 2666MHz!


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 19, 2013)

^
Now try again 2400 or 2666mhz but this time use DRAM clk Period at 9, i see you used Auto (tWLC 10) which makes those slow read/copy speeds..

At 9 it will tighten few advanced timings and it could get unstable. My 2133mhz acted the same as yours, but yeah at 9 it needs some extra fine tuning.


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 23, 2013)

I tried higher cache multi again and I noticed I need min 1.16v for x44.

I had at 1.158v but it hard reset in BF3, when I raised to 1.163v it was stable again, end result was higher L3 cache speeds, gained ~ 4gb/s vs cache at x42. 

In max max load it goes as high as 1.187v @ adaptive. 



Idk about other benchmarks though, tested only Aida64 memory benchmark..


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 27, 2013)

Womper said:


> I had a much better experience with per-core mode either because of the BIOS updates, or because I'm using adaptive mode. Although, it has one interesting behavior- it seems to stay .025v under the target turbo voltage. For example, I set:
> Core total adaptive mode voltage: 1.3v
> 1 core: 48x
> 2 cores: 48x
> ...





Yes I've been testing this atm and it looks very good.

I have like so in bios 1.28v
core1 48x
core2 48x
core3 47x (uses ~ 1.26v)
core4 46x (uses ~ 1.235v, like at fixed 4.6ghz OC)

If i want 4.7Ghz I need min 1.283v






But it was a bit unstable, I had to lower cache multi 42x in the end, had at 44x at first. Im might go lower with cpu v a bit but I think it needs min 1.275v, not sure maybe it was just cache causing all the problems, because few times it booted in windows normally, few times it would bsod by logon or just randomly reset.


----------



## emash (Sep 30, 2013)

*Hello!*

Please read my post, a fresh voice from new a new soul in realm of overclocking.

First of all i'd like to greet people of this forum, hello people. On september sixteenth i got my new setup, basically a ga-z87m-d3h motherboard with K-i5, with 1600mhz ram. After some time playing with it i was pretty impressed with perfomance and silence of my new system in a gorgeous n200 case. Since i bought a kinda bigger cooler with an oem cpu for saving and overall completenes of the system, i am now able to overclock the cpu a bit. BTW i have a top-down cooler master pwm 92mm fan, with kinda bigger heat spreaders than the ones on the stock one, with a fan which can go up to 4200rpm. I was not disappointed with it's perfomance though, temperatures remain well below 50c on 4,2 Ghz. 

This is my first ever overclock expirience in which i was able to achieve a 4,2 mark through modifying TB multipliers, and leaving vcore at auto setting. I read a lot about hardware i am now having time with so i decided to leave voltages alone (i mean new voltage managment introduced on haswell platform). Testing using different software from cpu-z to aida64 to prime95 shows that system is very stable and perfoming good, giving me up to 15k on geekbench. Voltage never goes higher than 1,15-16 mark on most exhausting tests, which i consider totally safe. One detail, i do not use prime95 for general testing since it does override whatever vcore numer you set.

Now to the purpose of this post. I was not able to go past 4,2Ghz, can't get my system to boot. Why? i could put vcore up, but it does not provide the desirable effect, it gets higher in the os even if was manually set to below average setting i expirience with auto. 
Since my cpu is capable of running at 4,2 with voltages not much higher than stock ones, and below the golden 1.2 (or 1.212) marks i do think my system is capable of running at 4,4Ghz. What do i do wrong, and why i experience such a wall, mentioned by someone on some page before, which i saw when first got here from google about 20 minutes ago.

Thank you. and i'm planning for a hackintosh, but it is a different story)


----------



## vega22 (Sep 30, 2013)

http://valid.canardpc.com/2900967

idk if i updated this thread, its as stable as my current cooling will allow xD


----------



## freeboy (Sep 30, 2013)

Anyone know CPU z well? 
I sometimes start up after a normal shutdown and get weirdness in bios... Sets speed to 4400 but CPU fluctuates like a bad day on Wall Street, even going over 10000 momentarily, is it actually reading CPU speed ?


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 30, 2013)

What does CPUz have to do with the 'weirdness in bios'? CPUz is a windows program...

Clearly, 10000 is not real.


----------



## freeboy (Sep 30, 2013)

Clearly, 
Ok 
The cause is bios 

I was hoping someone could tell me what CPU z reads


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 30, 2013)

What are you asking? How can one read a windows program from the bios to compare?

Please be clear on what you are trying to ask please.


----------



## freeboy (Sep 30, 2013)

ok..
lets try one more time

 try to not be too deep here

in the windows invironment... Im not talking about reading cpu z 


what does cpu ACTUALLY READ?


----------



## Kursah (Sep 30, 2013)

The CPU speed? Or what does the CPU read? Well it reads 1's and 0's, and that's it, billions a second.

If you're talking about reported CPU core speed, it's all dependent on what the EFI or BIOS is reporting to the OS for hardware speeds from my understandings. Make sure you're using the newest version of CPU-z...which looks at the drivers that windows uses to read CPU speed. Many other programs use those same drivers or MB specific drivers. Windows will only read what information it's provided, so a motherboard needs to report either to what MS usually reads or what a driver for that MB chipset provides, be it AMD, Intel, IBM, etc. Another thing to note, is the wrong version of software can cause unreliable readings unless verified in updates that it supports that chipset along with processor and revisions of that processor.

That's the gist of my understanding of it.


----------



## freeboy (Oct 1, 2013)

there is a program called cpu-z 
 it reads from the hardware.. reports in the software .. Im asking where it reads the reading . unless it reads from another software which makes it redundant


----------



## HammerON (Oct 1, 2013)

Ask stasio:
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114644&page=8


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 1, 2013)

It reads registers off of some chips on the board I beleive. For example, motherboards have the nuvoton if super I/o chip that covers some temps and voltages. I do not know exactly where it reads cpu speeds.


----------



## DTH (Oct 1, 2013)

i5-4670k Batch # L313B428
Stable @ 5Ghz - 1.29 Core Voltage
XSPC Raystorm RS750 kit
Asus Z87-Pro
16Gb Corsair Vengeance 1600mHz

[url]http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u171/faith777_DTH/NewBitmapImage3_zpsf1ff4ecb.png[/URL]

[url]http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u171/faith777_DTH/30MinsBF3Ultra_zps82de7fbf.png[/URL]

[url]http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u171/faith777_DTH/IBTDTH_zps3d382277.jpg[/URL]

Went up to 5.1 but not stable and I need to better place my radiator before applying more voltage...

[url]http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u171/faith777_DTH/NewBitmapImage2_zps61988cb0.png[/URL]


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 1, 2013)

5 GHz 1.29v is beast... wow...


----------



## dom99 (Oct 1, 2013)

I've got an i5 4670k clocked to 4.4ghz with 1.240V on the CPU and it's stable in games and intel burn test consistantly. The temperature reaches 80 degrees in IBT on the hottest core, is this acceptable for a 24-7 clock speed?

The processor is constantly at 4.4ghz and that voltage now, in the interest of saving energy, how do I set itso that the CPU scales back when not required?

My specs are up to date

Thanks


----------



## DTH (Oct 1, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> 5 GHz 1.29v is beast... wow...



Thanks, I was lucky so I thought I would share the batch number.

I'm in the process of building a custom cooling loop so will be testing a higher clock with more VCore soon.


----------



## TheHunter (Oct 2, 2013)

I saw one or two 4770K OC at 5Ghz @1.25v (xtremesystems.org), wish I had such a gem 

Im at 4.7Ghz @ 1.284v for 24/7, still not bad imo.




emash said:


> Please read my post, a fresh voice from new a new soul in realm of overclocking.
> 
> First of all i'd like to greet people of this forum, hello people. On september sixteenth i got my new setup, basically a ga-z87m-d3h motherboard with K-i5, with 1600mhz ram. After some time playing with it i was pretty impressed with perfomance and silence of my new system in a gorgeous n200 case. Since i bought a kinda bigger cooler with an oem cpu for saving and overall completenes of the system, i am now able to overclock the cpu a bit. BTW i have a top-down cooler master pwm 92mm fan, with kinda bigger heat spreaders than the ones on the stock one, with a fan which can go up to 4200rpm. I was not disappointed with it's perfomance though, temperatures remain well below 50c on 4,2 Ghz.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Well it depends, I would start with manual voltage an raise it in 0.05v steeps. Your 4.2Ghz@ 1.16v is a bit on the higher side for a 4670k.

For example my 4770k OC 
4.4Ghz @ 1.152v
4.5Ghz @ 1.183v
4.6Ghz @ 1.232v
4.7Ghz @ 1.284v

Imo you would need ~ 1.21-1.23v for 4.4-4.5Ghz. First test with fixed voltage, when you find stability, change to adaptive or offset voltage. 

But from what I saw Gigabyte doesn't have adaptive voltage, only offset, im not 100% sure though. 

A couple of good stability benchmarks/games, other then over the top IBT, Prime95 or Linx.
- x264 benchmark (if it crashes with x264.exe stopped responding you're almost at right voltage)

- Battlefiled3 (bigger maps)
- Resident Evil5 dx9 variable benchmark (use 720p to stress cpu to the max)
- FFXIV benchmark, and the new one Reborn
- any latest SquareEnix game; Hitman Absolution, TombRaider2013, Sleeping Dogs
- Any latest codemasters game

Funny thing was, I passed IBT, LInx, Prime95, Aida64, but failed in 64player Bf3 match after 15-30min or so.. I decided to test around BF3 and other games to find my final voltages.

Also a very good OC guide by Cadaveca
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Haswell_OC_Guide/


----------



## tomlev5 (Oct 17, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> How is it crashing?
> 
> 
> *10 dead Haswells so far, boys*. I'm ready to write up the OC guide! If it passes W1zz's approval, it'll be on the front page soon, working on it today, gotta capture some screenshots and need to make some phone calls to confirm some info, first, and some reps aren't in office yet, it's still early A.M. hours in Cali.



Dave, you got a lot of experience with pushing Haswells to the max. Can you please share one info regarding safe/unsafe overclock. Did all the chips die because of the high input voltage or are there other ways to kill a chip?

I have a 4670K on Z87-A with settings:
   Core Multiplier: 45
   Core voltage: 1.340 (HWiNFO64 or HWMonitor shows CPU Vcore 1.360)
   Input voltage: Auto (Z87-A sets VCCIN to 1.808, sometimes to 1.824 or 1.840)
   Uncore Multiplier: 43
   Uncore Voltage: 1.260
   Cooling Solution: Noctua U14S
   Ram Speed: 2133 CL10 @ 1.65 V

I can stress test on XTU, AIDA64 (the temperatures remain below 80C, and the sistem is completely stable - 0 bsods in around 48 hours of stress testing), but the temperatures go immediately to 100C if I use prime95 v28.1. The system is stable if I run prime on two cores only (temps below 90C).

1) Will I kill the chip if I stress test for days on 100C in prime v28.1?
2) If I will not kill it, is there a strong possibility that the chip will degrade?

P.S. Dave, thanks for the guide!


----------



## freeboy (Oct 17, 2013)

Great ?
Heat or ?


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 17, 2013)

tomlev5 said:


> 1) Will I kill the chip if I stress test for days on 100C in prime v28.1?
> 2) If I will not kill it, is there a strong possibility that the chip will degrade?



1) temps don't kill, voltage does. Input voltage and CPU voltage can be dangerous, for sure.


2) degradation is always possible, for sure, which is why I tend to recommend staying within the limits Intel recommended, @ stock + 10%.


----------



## tomlev5 (Oct 17, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> 1) temps don't kill, voltage does. Input voltage and CPU voltage can be dangerous, for sure.
> 
> 
> 2) degradation is always possible, for sure, which is why I tend to recommend staying within the limits Intel recommended, @ stock + 10%.



Thanks Dave. It looks like I will have to buy Intel's Performance Tuning Protection Plan if I want to test at 100°C ...


----------



## vega22 (Oct 17, 2013)

Dave, what was the most voltages you gave to chip's which didn't die, and what was the least you gave to the one's which did?


----------



## Nordic (Oct 18, 2013)

I just got myself a 4770k and a asus rog impact. The cpu stock volts are 1.04v. Judging by cadavaca's guide and the chart on page 1, that is pretty decent right? I would have tried to overclock it today but I am fighting to even get to the bios most of the time.


----------



## Kursah (Oct 18, 2013)

Have you purchased the Intel Performance Tuning Plan yet? If not, please go do so. What do you mean fighting to even get to BIOS because it boots so fast?


----------



## Nordic (Oct 18, 2013)

Thanks kursah. I am going to. I am fighting the bios meaning it does not want to post. Some sort of ram issue. If I leave it off for awhile I can boot right in.

Memory is the Gskill f3-2400C10D-8GTX

I will have more time tomorrow night to mess with it. Tonight I sleep.


----------



## Kursah (Oct 18, 2013)

Well does that board have a MemNOW! button or whatever they are called? I know my Asus z87pro does so I would assume the RoG series has one as well. I have 2133 g.skill sniper 2x4gb that's been pretty decent so far... but if your ram needs higher voltage...make sure you set that independently first. Also try without using XMP profiles and manually setting timings and voltage. That has helped many in their adventures...also you may need to reduce the speed of your memory to 1600 cl9 1.5-1.6v for now just to get everything else stable...especially when overclocking. 

Rest tonight and dominate tomorrow! Good luck!


----------



## Vario (Oct 18, 2013)

james888 said:


> Thanks kursah. I am going to. I am fighting the bios meaning it does not want to post. Some sort of ram issue. If I leave it off for awhile I can boot right in.
> 
> Memory is the Gskill f3-2400C10D-8GTX
> 
> I will have more time tomorrow night to mess with it. Tonight I sleep.



Hope you get it working.  Do you have any other memory to test?  Can you try reducing your ram speed to 1600 9-9-24 1t 1.5v until you find your processor's sweet spot?


----------



## Vario (Oct 18, 2013)

Kursah said:


> Have you purchased the Intel Performance Tuning Plan yet? If not, please go do so. What do you mean fighting to even get to BIOS because it boots so fast?



Why do you recommend the performance tuning plan?  Is it worth it?  Can Intel tell if you are outside spec'd parameter?


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 18, 2013)

marsey99 said:


> Dave, what was the most voltages you gave to chip's which didn't die, and what was the least you gave to the one's which did?



2.05V on Input and 1.5V vCore killed chips, for the least.

Ran 1.8V vCore, chip is fine, and 2.4V V-Input.



Vario said:


> Why do you recommend the performance tuning plan?  Is it worth it?  Can Intel tell if you are outside spec'd parameter?



Kursah had a bunk OC chip, used the tuning plan to get a better one. Tuning plan is good to RMA working but poor clocking chips for normal users, and is great safety insurance for those that run LN2. We are talking about just $25 per chip, which is worth paying to have someone pack up a new chip and mail it my way, IMHO.


----------



## Vario (Oct 19, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> 2.05V on Input and 1.5V vCore killed chips, for the least.
> 
> Ran 1.8V vCore, chip is fine, and 2.4V V-Input.
> 
> ...



Since my 3770 is not the greatest (vid 1.26) I'd buy the plan, run the chip at 4.8 1.45v and then fry it, get another, is that what you mean?  (I know non haswell derail here)


----------



## Nordic (Oct 22, 2013)

A few days later, some overtime put in, and now I have time to play again.

@Kursah and @Vario, I reset the cmos etc. It was defaulting to 1600 cl9. I almost think it was a vga problem, which has in the past shown up as a dram problem codes for me. I am rebuilding my water loop, taken from my 2500k, to install tonight. Tomorrow I should have some results on what the problem was, and hopefully some overclocking results. My aim is 4.5ghz, and I would like higher.


----------



## Kursah (Oct 22, 2013)

Vario said:


> Since my 3770 is not the greatest (vid 1.26) I'd buy the plan, run the chip at 4.8 1.45v and then fry it, get another, is that what you mean?  (I know non haswell derail here)



Yep pretty much, it's your one free pass on having a K series chip, overclocking it, damaging it or it failing from whatever and getting it RMA'd. Will they know? Probably. There's not much one can get away with anymore...but intially it would come down to how honest you choose to be as well.

It goes with the 3-year warranty and is well worth the $25. Now if you delid, well that's a physical modification and is obviously going to void any warranty. But if you don't delid, and OC the snot out of it (they even have coverage for the 3770k's still since they sell them new still), and it fails while you have this coverage, get online, initiate an RMA and get a replacement going in short time. Intel RMA is very good, turnaround is faster than I expected or experienced years ago (though even then the service was good...I had an E8600 that said it was running at 100C at stock speeds with a Xig S1283 on it.).

James keep us posted man! Update your system specs too! 

1600 cl9 is a pretty standard default, my 2133 memory did that too. Try with and without XMP, for some people stability is found one way or the other. I found better stability without XMP but setting xmp main settings (though subtimings stuck to what the board wanted).


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 22, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Tuning plan is good to RMA working but poor clocking chips for normal users


I mean use it if you can, but, that is not what the plan is for. It explicitly states on the front page of it, "...if it FAILS..." not, if its a bad overclocker turn it in. 



> In other words, if it fails under normal usage, we will replace it under the standard warranty; if it fails while running outside of intel's specifications, we will replace it under the Performance Tuning Protection Plan.



http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 22, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> I mean use it if you can, but, that is not what the plan is for. It explicitly states on the front page of it, "...if it FAILS..." not, if its a bad overclocker turn it in.
> 
> 
> 
> http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/



You're basing that off of not having used the service...I'm basing what's possible on having used it, and having had other members here use it. Nothing was wrong with Kursah's chip, and the whole "No Questions Asked" return ensure that it is NOT a problem to return a poor clocker. Always best to read the fine print:



> The Plan only applies to issues directly related to performance tuning, and only provides for a one-time replacement for eligible processors.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 22, 2013)

Read that, means nothing at all. You are attempting to extract meaning from something that intrinsically has NONE. If you can get away with it, go for it... Just saying it is for BROKEN processors not ones that do not overclock well. 

You CAN turn it in for that reason because of 'no questions asked' but its there for broken processors for overclocking, not poor overclocking processors. The "spirit" of the warranty is not for binning if you read the large or fine print.

I take it the surgery went well?


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 22, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> for broken processors for overclocking, not poor overclocking processors



I hear ya, but these two things are one and the same for most users. poor OC = broken.

Do I agree with that?

well...


The fact of the matter is that I know how it works, or can work, for those willing to pay the fees and use the service. Haven't actually heard of anyone getting a bad chip for OC back from using the tuning plan...only for normal RMA, too.


Surgery took a bit over 7 hours, one week recovery in hospital, now home, still amny weeks of home time left. Thanks for asking!


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 22, 2013)

That is a shame if people cannot tell the difference. Oh well. 


Glad to hear all is well as it can be.


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 22, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> That is a shame if people cannot tell the difference. Oh well.




Honestly...I don't feel that there is any difference. I am not personally a fan of the whole silicon quality = end chip value. To me, every SB-E chip sold was a broken chip(parts disabled), as were most early X79 chipsets (again, parts disabled).

I pay the $25 for an OC warranty. To me, that means that a chip should OC as I expect, and if it doesn't, then it's broken. Getting a "second chance" at OC, for such a small cost, and having done it myself, and seen others do it, means that I am basically justified, as are other users, is saying a bad OC'er = a broken chip.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 22, 2013)

Here is where we part ways Dave... you actually said the operative words I was looking for which really proves a point.



> that means that a chip should OC *as I expect*


 That right there is the crux of it all. Intel, regardless of this warranty, only guarantees the CPU to work at the speeds you buy it at. Purchasing this extra plan does NOT mean that your CPU will overclock more nor does it give one the right to return it specifically because it is a poor overclocker for that reason only. What a consumer expects is, more often than not, an unrealistic expectation. In this case, how could we have any real expectations when Intel only says it will work at the clocks on the box? How could anyone's chip be broken if it works at the stock clock speeds? Simple answer, its NOT broken. Surely there is disappointment when we see averages of 4.5Ghz @ 1.3v and you get 4.4Ghz at 1.35v, but, again luck of the silicon lottery, not Intel's fault, and definitely not a 'broken' processor. Not remotely broken. 

I disagree and quite passionately with that assesment Dave. Intel only guarantees the CPU to work at the speeds on the box. Anything more is a 'risk' to the CPU. Intel does NOT, in any form, guarantee a clockspeed 1 MHz above what is on the box, so to call it broken, IMHO, is just plain wrong. 

Again, if one wants to turn it in for that reason, be my guest, but the "spirit" of the warranty most certainly is not for binning purposes.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 22, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> Again, if one wants to turn it in for that reason, be my guest, but the "spirit" of the warranty most certainly is not for binning purposes.



But if they are able to take advantage of it in this way, why does it matter?


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 22, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> I disagree and quite passionately with that assesment Dave. Intel only guarantees the CPU to work at the speeds on the box. Anything more is a 'risk' to the CPU. Intel does NOT, in any form, guarantee a clockspeed 1 MHz above what is on the box, so to call it broken, IMHO, is just plain wrong.



Meh. I get chips early, test them, and make my own assessments as to what the silicon is capable of. I base that personal opinion on a multitude of factors, and I expect each and every chip to reach those clockspeeds with relative ease.


I hear where you are coming from of course, I do realize that legally, it is exactly as you say, but I don't think that reality and legality are always the same thing.


That said, the "rules" for OC that I decide on, based on my own personal testing, do seem to apply to the general expectations anyone can have, and at the same time, I always tend to expect a bit less than what most other "reviewers" (for lack of a better label to conglomerate who I am speaking about here) expect, so I feel perfectly confident in that opinion. IT is MY opinion...and not anyone else's...I've never indicated anything I've ever posted was anything other than my opinion, unless expressly showing it to be different...

Besides, if we agree on everything, the world would end. 



EarthDog said:


> the warranty most certainly is not for binning purposes.



Of course it's not for binning purposes, but at the same time, it's just a single replacement. Is someone @ Intel binning the replacement CPUs for the Intel Tuning Plan...probably not. Do I wish there was someone doing it? YES, I do.

SInce I am basically the only person promoting the Intel Tuning Plan at this point, I have no problems shaping it into what I want it to be. 


I mean..you can ask Kursah...he took me advice on buying the plan, RMA'd a poop OC chip, got a much better one back...so it does work as I say, at times. XD


----------



## TheHunter (Oct 22, 2013)

Hi all

I think I found another trick to lower vcore a little, I raised 2 voltages for 1-2 steeps and that seems to do the trick. It was mostly on random though 

For example 4.7GHz needs at least 1.285 - 1.290V to be "stable",  now im at 1.278v completely stable (started testing by ~ 1.263v). 








And For me the ultimate cpu stress game benchmark has to be Resident Evil5 and LostPlanet2 both at lower reso 720p.

Resident evil5 >> variable test
with jobthread 7 (in cfg) @ dx9 720p no aa , 

LostPlanet2 >> especially fixed test
with jobthread 8 (in cfg) @ dx11 no aa, 720p, dx11 fx - low 


speaking of temperature, I was stupid enough to change my default pre-applied  paste and now it seems worse at ~ 65-75C area (2-4C).. I have Noctua NT -H1 paste and Im seriously thinking about Thermaltake TG-1, my 2nd choice would be Tuniq-TX3 but i cant find it anywhere.. 
Any other recommendations?


EDIT: now i saw this thermal paste review, and here its shows NT-H1 paste as 2nd best. hmmm
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=71658

This is my 2nd mount atm; 
1st I've put too much (almost pea size) 
2nd in a small line - rice size

I will try 3rd time, like they say 3rd time's the charm


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## EarthDog (Oct 22, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> But if they are able to take advantage of it in this way, why does it matter?


It doesn't really, it is just not meant to do that in the way that Dave said judging from the verbiage on their page.

I wonder if you actually submit to them, 'poor overclocker but still works at stock' would they honor the warranty. I guess no questions asked is no questions asked but again, the spirit of the warranty is not for binning chips. It is for replacement of not functioning chips from overclocking. 

You (both) have to understand where I am coming from... I am not one to take advantage of loopholes and things of the like. When I break a chip from overclocking, if I do not have that warranty, I do not try to RMA it. I broke it. I took the risk and broke it so I ate the cost. It is just how I was brought up, to do the 'right' thing. Now, if you are honest and say, its a bad overclocker and they return it, then as I said, more power to you. But, as it is written that is seemingly against the spirit of the warranty and is not something I would personally partake in without being upfront and saying, "bad overclocker, still works, looking for a better binned CPU".


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## Protagonist (Oct 22, 2013)

Can I Join The Club... Specifications On The Side, I haven't Overclocked Yet.. Everything Stock And Running Stock Settings Except For The Memory @ XMP 1600MHz


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## cadaveca (Oct 22, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> It doesn't really, it is just not meant to do that in the way that Dave said judging from the verbiage on their page.
> 
> I wonder if you actually submit to them, 'poor overclocker but still works at stock' would they honor the warranty. I guess no questions asked is no questions asked but again, the spirit of the warranty is not for binning chips. It is for replacement of not functioning chips from overclocking.



Of course. At the same time, how often do we hear about degradation from OC for normal users?


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 22, 2013)

Not sure where you are going with that question...but a degraded CPU is not the same as one that, out of the box, does not meet the users "expectations" of overclocking. A degraded CPU is one I would return as it clearly fits within the parameters of the Intel Performance warranty.


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## Nordic (Oct 22, 2013)

Turns out I had a dram and gpu problem. My impact did not like my 7870 tahiti gpu. One of my gskill trident sticks come up as no memory installed code #55. I have my patriot 2000mhz kit installed now with no problems. I am going to test that trident kit on another system later.

I am sad to find out my apogee drive II is barely compatible with the asus impact. It pushes on the first memory stick a bit.

A harddrive started clicking so I have had to try to back up the data on it, about 100gb worth. What a day.


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## Vario (Oct 23, 2013)

james888 said:


> Turns out I had a dram and gpu problem. My impact did not like my 7870 tahiti gpu. One of my gskill trident sticks come up as no memory installed code #55. I have my patriot 2000mhz kit installed now with no problems. I am going to test that trident kit on another system later.
> 
> I am sad to find out my apogee drive II is barely compatible with the asus impact. It pushes on the first memory stick a bit.
> 
> A harddrive started clicking so I have had to try to back up the data on it, about 100gb worth. What a day.



By all indications, is the 4770k still golden?


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## Nordic (Oct 23, 2013)

Vario said:


> By all indications, is the 4770k still golden?



Golden is a strong word. I honestly am just as I am typing this on my laptop, beginning to overclock.

4.2ghz achieved. Working on 4.4.


----------



## TheHunter (Oct 23, 2013)

how much do you need for 4.4ghz atm?

I would call it above average if it can do 4.5Ghz below 1.20v, golden if it does 4.6Ghz below 1.18v.


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## Nordic (Oct 23, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> how much do you need for 4.4ghz atm?
> 
> I would call it above average if it can do 4.5Ghz below 1.20v, golden if it does 4.6Ghz below 1.18v.



Definitely not golden. I 4.2ghz is completely stable and 4.3ghz is 99% stable. Looking at the table in the OP and in Dave's guide, my 1.04v at stock seemed good. I mentioned that to Vario and that is where he got the golden from.

I am not a great overclocker so it could be higher. I am going to try one more thing here and then post some bios shots to see if you guys can help me get this thing higher.

Temps are not a concern. At 4.3ghz I am getting 55-60c temps.


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## TheHunter (Oct 23, 2013)

From what I saw by mine  ~ 1.27-1.30v is the limit for good temps. atm OC 4.7Ghz @ 1.278v (adaptive voltage)


So as long as you're below 1.30v you should be fine


----------



## Nordic (Oct 23, 2013)

My overclocking method is pretty rudimentary. I take basic voltages and other such values from a guide, thanks Dave, and input them to start. Then I set the multiplier to my desired overclock goal, which was 4.4ghz. If that fails I decrease the multi till stable. I then bump up the vcore a reasonable amount, 1.3v vcore is the value I set. I then increase the multi till not stable. I then drop down to the last stable multi. I then fine tune the voltages as best I can from there.

I have my bios screenshots below. You will see I have 4.3ghz at 1.3v. The vcore on that may very well be able to be decreased because I have not done any fine tuning yet. I was stable at 4.2ghz 1.265v but I had not fine tuned that either.



Spoiler: Big screenshot of my bios settings











My temperatures are staying at about 55c at these settings. I have plenty of thermal headroom. I am pretty confident I could hit 4.4ghz with higher voltages. I feel this is about as far as I can go on my own. I was playing some ns2 not too long ago at 4.3ghz. The performance was better than my 2500k at 4.5ghz and ran cooler too.

On a side note. I love asus mem ok.


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## Vario (Oct 23, 2013)

I am wondering why you can't a higher  clock with such low voltage and low temperatures... other than memory


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## Nordic (Oct 24, 2013)

So I spent most of last night many different combination of voltages. 4.3ghz is my highest stable. I am fine with that. Maybe with a bios update I might get lucky. Time to see how low of volts I need for 4.3ghz.
I was trying to do PER CORE overclocking to hopefully get a few more MHz on fewer cores. I noticed I am always running at my 4core ratio. Even when idleing it does not drop down below the 4core ratio.


Ooh wait. I got 4.4ghz at 1.28v using manual instead of xmp.


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## TheHunter (Oct 24, 2013)

My current settings with a little lower volts, still stable..  


 

 

 

 

I tried ram at 9-10-10-27-1T but it hardreset in RE5 dx9 benchmark -3rd test, 

9-11-10-27-1T looks the limit at 2200mhz and tWCL 8-9.


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## Nordic (Oct 24, 2013)

These settings for 4.4ghz seem stable. I just gamed for about 4 hours, and they passed aida stress for about 3 before I decided to game. I added my cpu usage to further show that it isn't downclocking during idle.







4.3ghz needs ~1.27v. Stock volts were 1.04v. Temps are definitely no concern with my custom water.


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## HammerON (Oct 25, 2013)

I run mine @ 4.4GHz w/ 1.22v. Your chip seems to require quite a bit more...
I guess it is all good if your temps are fine. Are you overclocking through the bios or through the ASUS software? I like to stick to the bios, but that is just my preference.
Glad you got it stable. I thought I was stable at 4.4 and 1.2v, but after two days of running WCG my system would freeze up. Moving to 1.22v has fixed that.


----------



## Nordic (Oct 25, 2013)

I am overclocking through bios. AiSuiteIII just conveniently shows all my voltages in an easy to screenshot manner. I honestly keep it off.

I am going to wait a week and see how stability is over a longer run. Then I will install boinc->WCG.


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## LiveOrDie (Oct 27, 2013)

Hey guys should i be changing my Cache voltage im @ 4.4Ghz with 1.15v on adaptive i ran intels Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool and temps didn't go over 60c .


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## puma99dk| (Oct 27, 2013)

i am still battling with my i5-4670k sometimes it runs for weeks no problems, gaming, encoding and more, and other times it just BSOD which is annoying, i have tested Aida64 FPU Stress test no crash, and for now i has run for 1week and 4hours, last reboot was bcs of Windows 7 update.

but more and more i believe i need a reinstall, but that i dunno when will be bcs i got soo much i need to install again then and i am not sure if everything will run in Windows 8.1.


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## kalixaq (Oct 27, 2013)

Uhm, looking at your values, I must be doing something awefuly wrong.

CPU 4670K boots into windows even with 1.2V @4.6Ghz "BUT" running stress tests, I allways end up with BSOD.

Step by step I tried increasing VCORE upto 1.40V (Don't panic cooling is not an issue) and still it BSOD on me around 30-40 minutes into the stress test. Using Intel Extreme Tuning utility to stress test btw.

Things I tried - with no success.
Increase CPU input voltage to 2.0V
Decrease CPU Cache speed (Ringbus) to 3.0Ghz
Underclock DRAM to 1333Mhz

I'm really running out of ideas and I am tempted find one of those guys who run 4.6Ghz @ 1.2V and scream my frustration..


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## TheHunter (Oct 27, 2013)

Hi,

Hm, what mobo and ram do you have? Did you test ram sticks in memtest/ windows memory diagnostic?




Well here is a funny one, with my values above (a little higher PCH and PCH VLX voltage) I was able to lower 4.6GHZ voltage as well.. Use to run at 1.235V, 
now




(real in bios 1.230v, cache @ 4.3Ghz - adaptive 1.139v)


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## kalixaq (Oct 27, 2013)

Asus Gryphon Z87


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## TheHunter (Oct 27, 2013)

I've read  about your mobo that it can act a little funny.. Or was it in one review idk, but I think remembered a few recommendations 


Try this, 

in AI Tweaker make sure that input voltage is at least 1.79v - leave both at auto for now and disable cpu spread spectrum (below at end)

in DIGI+ set LLC to 5, cpu 130%, phase optimized, vrm spread spectrum disabled.

in cpu section disable vrm fault check. 

*leave cache alone, both values at auto and its voltage also. 

*in memory timing section manually put in your main XMP timings, also if its 1.65v then set to 1.65v



Ps, when you said 1.20v bsod, from my experience another 0.05v (1.25v) always did the trick, if not then another 0.03v.


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## kalixaq (Oct 27, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> in AI Tweaker make sure that input voltage is at least 1.79v



is this CPU input voltage? If so I have it at 2.0 at the moment, I'll try your suggestions and report back.


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## kalixaq (Oct 27, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> in DIGI  set LLC to 5, cpu 130%, phase optimized, vrm spread spectrum disabled.


also what is that "cpu 130%" mean? is that a setting in DIGI?


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## Kursah (Oct 27, 2013)

The power thermal control value iirc is what TheHunter is referring to kalixaq.


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## TheHunter (Oct 27, 2013)

kalixaq said:


> also what is that "cpu 130%" mean? is that a setting in DIGI?



Ah sorry guess I should have been more clear, yes in DIGI+ cpu current capability 130% and by thermal control 130 if not already. 


And yes I meant that cpu input voltage 1.79v (2.0v by you). Set both at auto (SVID and its value).


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## kalixaq (Oct 27, 2013)

well thank you very much!

I did not wait for the answer for "cpu current capability" and started a stress test with the other values that is:
LLC = 5,
phase optimized,
vrm spread spectrum disabled
vrm fault check disabled

I am running at VCore 1.37V for more than an hour now all stable temperatures around 65-75C 

So one of those above values fixed my issue.
In the end, it is very uncanny that I can run 4.4Ghz @ 1.23V and need 1.37V for just 200Mhz boost. I guess I will get it running smooth and stable save my settings for boasting rights whenever asked, and run the system on 4.4Ghz @ 1.23V settings on the longer term.

Does not worth the TDP increase for 200Mhz I guess.


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## Nordic (Oct 28, 2013)

I find it funny that my 4770k runs about 10c cooler than my 2500k. 4.4ghz 1.305v @ 55c vs 4.5ghz 1.35v at 65c.


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## petedread (Oct 28, 2013)

Yeah that happens with Haswel, cpu reaches a certain point then needs a big jump in volts to get higher clock.
I found that tinkering with system agent, cpu digital and cpu analogue IO helped with stability especially at higher memory frequency's. +230, +240 +240. I'm in the process of lowering these though. Also I used turbo for the channel A/B current protection ect.


----------



## LiveOrDie (Oct 28, 2013)

james888 said:


> These settings for 4.4ghz seem stable. I just gamed for about 4 hours, and they passed aida stress for about 3 before I decided to game. I added my cpu usage to further show that it isn't downclocking during idle.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/131024/cpuz.png
> 
> 4.3ghz needs ~1.27v. Stock volts were 1.04v. Temps are definitely no concern with my custom water.



I'm running my CPU at 4.4Ghz on 1.8v adaptive 2400Mhz ram my temps after 5 minutes in prime where around 85c is that to high im thinking of adding two more fans to my H100i ?


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## TheHunter (Oct 28, 2013)

Live OR Die said:


> I'm running my CPU at 4.4Ghz on 1.8v adaptive 2400Mhz ram my temps after 5 minutes in prime where around 85c is that to high im thinking of adding two more fans to my H100i ?



Dont use adaptive cpu voltage and run Prime95 etc it will use much higher voltage - at least 0.07v higher..  Use fixed voltage until you find your 100% voltage, then move back to adaptive voltage. 


Btw what is that 4.4Ghz, 1.18v?



EDIT: NEW bios is out for most Asus Z87 boards

Z87-DELUXE BIOS 1504
1 Enhance compatibility with some USB device.
2.Revise help string in BIOS.


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## riedlZ (Oct 30, 2013)

I think I got a really bad Chip 

For 41/39 I need 1.20v. For 42/40 1.26v. And 43+/XX is NEVER stable. I tried so many different settings, C-States on/off, PLL on/off, 1600MHz/2600MHz RAM and so on. Everytime 0x124. With my "stable" 42/40 1.26v I reach 82°C on Intel Burn Test with my Noctua NH-D14 and Phobya Liquid Metal Thermal Paste in a HAF 912 Plus with good Airflow.

System:
CPU: i5-4670k
MB: AsRock Z87 Pro3
RAM: G-Skill 2x4GB CL10-12-12-31-2N @2600MHz
GPU: GTX 780
PS: Corsair CX600
OS: Windows 8.1

Has anybody some magic for me?


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## TheHunter (Oct 30, 2013)

Intel Burn Test will make it hot especially over 1.27v, doesnt matter if you have 3.5ghz or 5ghz. Something happens inside the chip by ~ 1.27v and then it starts to heat up abnormally.. Or could be just my water cooler fault, I saw it should handle up to ~ 1.275v anything more and it needs H110/custom water..


I wouldnt want to test such burnin apps., intel doesnt recommend it either.. Use intel's own Xtreme tuning utility. 


All these tests will push your cpu temperature to the max. (worst case scenarios), nvm IBT, Prime95, Linx - these tools are like Furmark for gpu uberkill never going to happen 

-Cinebench11.5, 15
- X264 HD benchmark
- Fritz_Chess_Benchmark
- wprime 2.10 - 1024mb test
-any video encoding sw using x264 codec 
- LostPlanet2 benchmark - Test2 dx11 @ 720p, no aa, dx11 fx - low; and for those with 8thread cpu in cfg my documents/capcom/LP2 benchmark (set job thread 8 instead of 4).


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## d1nky (Oct 30, 2013)

TPUs bench competition starts soon, hope to see some names on the stages 

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191333


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## freaksavior (Nov 6, 2013)

Pretty sure i've got a shitty CPU 

I haven't played with it much more than this, I tried 46x100 and 1.25 and it will boot but any load crashes immediately.


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## Nordic (Nov 6, 2013)

freaksavior said:


> Pretty sure i've got a shitty CPU
> 
> I haven't played with it much more than this, I tried 46x100 and 1.25 and it will boot but any load crashes immediately.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/7O58AOG.png



At least yours boots at 4.6


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## freaksavior (Nov 6, 2013)

james888 said:


> At least yours boots at 4.6



Not much good if I can't put any load on it


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## Nordic (Nov 6, 2013)

freaksavior said:


> Not much good if I can't put any load on it



Mine wont boot at 4.6. I am simply saying there is worse.


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## EarthDog (Nov 6, 2013)

freaksavior said:


> Pretty sure i've got a shitty CPU
> 
> I haven't played with it much more than this, I tried 46x100 and 1.25 and it will boot but any load crashes immediately.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/7O58AOG.png


1.25v? Grow a pair and give it more volts! 1.25v for 4.5Ghz is a good chip really. So..... MOAR volts!


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## TheHunter (Nov 7, 2013)

Btw, how much does System Voltage Agent - Vccsa help by overall stability?


mine now with +0.150 is at 0.960v., and appears to help by lower cpu voltage, but temp. stayed around the same (1-2C lower). 

This passed Cinebench 15 multi test @ 1.262v 4.7ghz.. Idk if it will pass all.. I need 1.28v to be stable in all atm .


edit: 
It bsod in Re5 variable test.

Vccsa 0.190+ offset makes 1.09v and cpu at 1.269v fixed it (reports as ~1.268v), still a lot lower then 1.28250v (started at 1.289v, 99% stable).. 

Is it safe to run at 1.0-1.10v? for example 0.200+ starts in yellow (1.15v?).


EDIT2: I returned to default value, got higher temps. even though I used lower cpuv.


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 8, 2013)

How long should i run AIDA64 for i did 5 minutes on 4.4Ghz 1.2v. 










Whats classed as a good or bad chip I'm at 4.5Ghz still on 1.2v set manually.


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## cadaveca (Nov 8, 2013)

Live OR Die said:


> Whats classed as a good or bad chip I'm at 4.5Ghz still on 1.2v set manually.
> 
> http://s21.postimg.org/bwxabtugn/Untitled.png




Try running FPU test only in AIDA there. if it passes THAT @ 1.2 V and 4.5 GHz, you got a great chip.


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## Kursah (Nov 8, 2013)

Note: the FPU only test is extreme and will generally hit the 90's or even peg out 100C...at least that was my experience with air cooling. But if it passes, it passes. The CPU is hurt by voltage...it throttles at 100C..by pretty small increments in all honesty, I think by 100Mhz increments...which at 4500mhz isn't shabby at all. This is my findings with my fairly expensive air cooling solution during summer weather though. But it hit the 100C mark very fast.


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 9, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Try running FPU test only in AIDA there. if it passes THAT @ 1.2 V and 4.5 GHz, you got a great chip.






Kursah said:


> Note: the FPU only test is extreme and will generally hit the 90's or even peg out 100C...at least that was my experience with air cooling. But if it passes, it passes. The CPU is hurt by voltage...it throttles at 100C..by pretty small increments in all honesty, I think by 100Mhz increments...which at 4500mhz isn't shabby at all. This is my findings with my fairly expensive air cooling solution during summer weather though. But it hit the 100C mark very fast.



 It just crashed my system on the 1st go the 2nd go it hit throttling like 4 seconds in  dam these things cook, I guess its not 100% stable ill drop it down to 4.4Ghz and try again.

I dont think even on stock i can run this test what does that say my H100i isn't working right how does a CPU get that much heat in so small amount of time.


----------



## freaksavior (Nov 10, 2013)

user name|CPU/batch|Stock Volt:CPU/Cache|OC CPU Clock|OC CPU Voltage|OC Cache/Ring Multi|OC Cache/Ring Voltage|Memory Speed|cooling|notes


freaksavior | i7 4770k/L310B562 | 1.068 (reported in bios) | 4.4Ghz | 1.260 | No idea where this | 2.4Ghz | PHANTEKS PH-TC14PE | ga-z87x-ud4h


----------



## LiveOrDie (Nov 13, 2013)

Can any one tell me that they can do the FPU test and keep there temps under 100C ? Mine jump up to 100c in less that 5 seconds but on a normal stress test my temps dont over over 65c.


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## EarthDog (Nov 13, 2013)

Live OR Die said:


> Can any one tell me that they can do the FPU test and keep there temps under 100C ? Mine jump up to 100c in less that 5 seconds but on a normal stress test my temps dont over over 65c.


Me?!!


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 13, 2013)

Is there a problem with my chip then? My temps are fine on normal use games and programs.


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## TheHunter (Nov 13, 2013)

Live OR Die said:


> Is there a problem with my chip then? My temps are fine on normal use games and programs.



What cpu voltage are you using? 

-auto 
-manual fixed 
-manual offset/adaptive?


I hit mid 85-90s with adaptive offset 1.278v >> 1.367v, it climbs to almost 100C later though.. At fixed voltage its a little better. 

I dont run these burn-in tests anymore, found other tools like x264hd bench, geekbench3, cinebench, fritzchess benchmark and cpu games that are more stressful on whole system. 


And yeah exactly why bother if its ok in normal apps, programs..


----------



## vega22 (Nov 13, 2013)

i dont either but the fpu tests get it hotter than most other tests.

i did, i would end up being throttled if i went over x43 but since i delidded it the temps have plummeted.

60c@4.5ghz now.


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 14, 2013)

I was thinking about delidding did u just use normal paste and is that on fpu test? Im on manual voltage 1.20v  temps 95-100c .


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## petedread (Nov 15, 2013)

Got a new 4770k, this one is happy as a pig in s##t doing 4.5@ 1.200v, cache 4.5@ 1.100v, CPU Vrin external override @1.650v. Max temps after 9 hours OCCT are 65c. My first 4770k needed 1.310vcore to do 4.5ghz! And would hit 95c in no time. Very happy, will try for a higher clocks when I get a day off work. My target will be a maximum of 1.275 vcore as I have good cooling, so 1.275v should be fine for a 24/7 OC with offset vcore. Oh and at the moment I'm using a standard LLC.
 Hopefully I'll be able to validate at 5ghz but you never know, just a 200mhz boost could require another 0.100v with Haswell, or at least that's been my experience.


----------



## petedread (Nov 15, 2013)

Something I've noticed is that even when using offset volts for the cache, CPU-z shows that the cache clock doesn't drop when idle. Is this the same for everybody else?


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## EarthDog (Nov 15, 2013)

The cache does not drop, correct. Just vcore and speed.


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## cadaveca (Nov 15, 2013)

petedread said:


> Is this the same for everybody else?



Nope, on some boards, it's dynamic. Tell me, is it stuck @ 35 or 39?


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## TheHunter (Nov 15, 2013)

Yes depends on the mobo

I have these options:
min cache - auto
max cache - auto
it will run at x39 all the time.

If I select 
min cache - auto
max cache - 43
it will run at x43 all the time, if i config. min to x35 it will drop to x35 in idle/voltage.

Also with all c-states enabled (c7 and package state) it can drop to low 0.4v even at min x39.


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## petedread (Nov 15, 2013)

It's stuck at 4.5.


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## cadaveca (Nov 15, 2013)

petedread said:


> It's stuck at 4.5.



As TheHunter posted, sometimes choosing other cache options can affect if it's "locked" or not.


Either way, nice chip to get 4.5 GHz CPU AND cache at those voltages. I'm quite jealous, actually.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 15, 2013)

freaksavior said:


> user name|CPU/batch|Stock Volt:CPU/Cache|OC CPU Clock|OC CPU Voltage|OC Cache/Ring Multi|OC Cache/Ring Voltage|Memory Speed|cooling|notes
> 
> 
> freaksavior | i7 4770k/L310B562 | 1.068 (reported in bios) | 4.4Ghz | 1.260 | No idea where this | 2.4Ghz | PHANTEKS PH-TC14PE | ga-z87x-ud4h
> ...



I really like the look of that gigabyte BIOS.


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## petedread (Nov 15, 2013)

@MxPhenom 216 the gigabyte bios does look nice but unless you get one of the OC boards you won't have as many bios features as the asus boards. 

I've just noticed that I wasn't using a offset on the cache so I changed it to offset and now it's crashing after 20 mins of OCCT. The cache clock still doesn't drop. I have all C-states on auto. I'll try turning C-states on to see if that drops the cache clock.
 LLC won't help with the cache will it?
 I may have to add v to the Vrin as I add v to the cache


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## TheHunter (Nov 15, 2013)

Yeah 1.10v @ 4.5ghz looks amazing 

Set it to adaptive voltage, by total adaptive "turbo voltage" put in your final voltage ie 1.10v, by offset - auto.

Im using adaptive and I need 1.11v for x41 , x44 already 1.165v, but I use all 4 ram channels dunno if that makes any difference.


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## petedread (Nov 15, 2013)

So far it is ok at 1.110v offset (no adaptive on gigabyte gaming board) but it's only been going for 1 hour. 
Some weird things happening since updating to latest bios.
1, using offsets make it less stable.
2, any LLC other than standard makes it unstable.
3, the graphs that OCCT draws seem a bit inaccurate and OCCT, Hardware Monitor and CPU-z are reporting higher vcore than what's set in bios.

P.s I added 0.010 to the Vrin and the cache. Will take that back off the Vrin if it proves stable for a few hours and run OCCT again. I use OCCT because it crashes more than Aida64.


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## vega22 (Nov 15, 2013)

Live OR Die said:


> I was thinking about delidding did u just use normal paste and is that on fpu test? Im on manual voltage 1.20v  temps 95-100c .



sorry dude, missed the thread 

mine was like that at first too, i would say everyone with a haswell should do it tbh, the difference in temps is just so immense that it makes it worthwhile.

do not use normal paste unless you want to redo it every week or 10 days. that is what i had to do as i used a normal paste and it just baked around the week mark. liquid ultra now and the temps are better and staying the same, not climbing each day.

very jelly of a 45/45 on 1.2/1.1v 

i bet you could drop it to 1.6vrin too and stay stable :thumb:


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 16, 2013)

Should i be changing any other voltages other than the CPU turbo voltage I've been leaving the others on auto? I've just ordered some Coollaboratory Liquid Pro .


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## petedread (Nov 16, 2013)

So OCCT was still running when I got up this morning @1.110v cache.
Just to be clear, CPU 4.5 @1.200v set in bios. 1.213v shows in CPU-z and HW. Standard LLC used, don't know why it shows higher.


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## cadaveca (Nov 16, 2013)

petedread said:


> So OCCT was still running when I got up this morning @1.110v cache.
> Just to be clear, CPU 4.5 @1.200v set in bios. 1.213v shows in CPU-z and HW. Standard LLC used, don't know why it shows higher.



Dude...you really won the silicon lottery. Push for higher clocks!  

I'd leave cache where it id now, and push the CPU multi up a couple of notches. ASUS's OC guide mentions that running CPU cache a couple of multis below CPU speed seems to be the most optimal in benchmarks.


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## vega22 (Nov 16, 2013)

i found keeping it about 200mhz behind the core was plenty but if i could of ran it the same i think i would 

what i want to know pete is what you can get with 1.7 vccin, 1.3 core, 1.3 uncore


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 17, 2013)

petedread said:


> So OCCT was still running when I got up this morning @1.110v cache.
> Just to be clear, CPU 4.5 @1.200v set in bios. 1.213v shows in CPU-z and HW. Standard LLC used, don't know why it shows higher.



Mine can do 4.5Ghz @ 1.2v but wasn't 100% stable, some days it would be fine playing hours on BF4 then one day it just restarted so i dropped it down to 4.4Ghz and it rock solid now, Do you think increasing the cache voltage would help? Also what memory speeds are you running i run mine @ 2400Mhz on all my Overclocks.


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## petedread (Nov 17, 2013)

Mem speeds are 2666mhz xmp profile, they won't take any overclocking at all on my system with my limited ability. Definitely try a bit more cache volts. I've found that my OC is fine on bench tests but will crash in BF4 if I have the CPU volts on offset. I guess it doesn't help not having many bios controls on my board, otherwise I could probably fix that.

@cadaveca and marsey99. I'll try that now, leaving cache and just upping CPU multi. Going to go straight to 4.7ghz @1.250v and 1.7 vrin, which is called CPU VRIN EXTERNAL OVERIDE on my board, that must be your vccin?


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## TheHunter (Nov 17, 2013)

set that VRIN external - SVID - Vccin @ 1.79V.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1401976/the-gigabyte-z87-haswell-overclocking-oc-guide/1450#post_20892669 

I think you would need around the same cpuv as me for 4.7Ghz, well my 4.5Ghz needs "only" 1.18v. 


btw; about SVID in booklet manual:
When overclocking, set this item to [Enabled]. Disabling this item would stop the processor from communicating  with the external voltage regulator. 


While in UEFI it says recommended [Disabled] when overclocking, and if I disable it it locks at 1.69V which is to low for 1.279v @ 4.7Ghz.. I need min 1.78v ideal 1.80v or higher cpu voltage ~1.29v and its still kinda unpredictable.


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 20, 2013)

petedread said:


> Mem speeds are 2666mhz xmp profile, they won't take any overclocking at all on my system with my limited ability. Definitely try a bit more cache volts. I've found that my OC is fine on bench tests but will crash in BF4 if I have the CPU volts on offset. I guess it doesn't help not having many bios controls on my board, otherwise I could probably fix that.
> 
> @cadaveca and marsey99. I'll try that now, leaving cache and just upping CPU multi. Going to go straight to 4.7ghz @1.250v and 1.7 vrin, which is called CPU VRIN EXTERNAL OVERIDE on my board, that must be your vccin?



I have Cache on auto should i set the adaptive to 1.110 ? or use manual?

Well 1.110v on adaptive crashed my system after loading into a game, Shouldn't this voltage match the cpu main voltage?


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## TheHunter (Nov 21, 2013)

^
No dont match it.

If 1.11v crashes then try 1.12v or 1.13v adaptive..


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 23, 2013)

So i de-lidded my CPU  and now when i do a FPU stress test my temps don't go past 75c this is with a ambient temp of 30c.


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## vega22 (Nov 23, 2013)

temps are great with a good tim aint they


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 23, 2013)

marsey99 said:


> temps are great with a good tim aint they



Sure are even know they paste wasn't rock hard on the die some was still damp it just didn't do the job that Liquid Pro does.


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## puma99dk| (Nov 23, 2013)

do anyone have a good reason why CPU-Z and Aida64 goes crazy with 1.280V on my i5-4670k running offset or adaptive mode even in - like 0.020 i can get it down to like 1.200V max and i can boot and stress test at 1.120V @ 4ghz just fine running "Fully Manual Mode" ?


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## TheHunter (Nov 23, 2013)

By AVX it uses 0.07 -0.09v more.. Ie 1.20v will be yeah 1.28v.

If you're gonna test such apps use fixed voltage.



Speaking of stability, latest Asus 1602 bios is a bit so so..

But I think I found one ratio between core and cache, could be a big coincidence though.. 4.6ghz @ 1.234v and cache 1.135 - 1.145v wasn't stable, but when I set 4.6Ghz @ 1.230v and cache x42 @ 1.140v it passed fine. Its like it needs at least ~ 0.09v between cpu and cache to work properly. Anyone else noticed this?


I was ok at 4.7Ghz @ 1.282v and cache 43x @ around 1.147v , but lately it started to act weird, actually since bios v1602.
Its stable for a couple of days, but then bsod's in something like Resident Evil5 dx9 low reso 720p variable benchmark - 3rd test.. I tweaked and tweaked and again few days later same bsod or it started overheat more 5-7C.. Its like build-in VRM leaked voltage or heat.

I have disabled  CPU Integrated VR fault management (default auto), according to uefi Asus recommends disabling it when OC..



> Disable this  item to prevent tripping the Fully Integrated Voltage Regulator when doing over-voltage. We recommend you to disable this item when overclocking.


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 23, 2013)

puma99dk| said:


> do anyone have a good reason why CPU-Z and Aida64 goes crazy with 1.280V on my i5-4670k running offset or adaptive mode even in - like 0.020 i can get it down to like 1.200V max and i can boot and stress test at 1.120V @ 4ghz just fine running "Fully Manual Mode" ?



Try manual voltage don't use adaptive when stress testing as it can spike higher than you have set, Best to find your stable manual voltage then set it to adaptive after and let it be.


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## puma99dk| (Nov 23, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> I have disabled  CPU Integrated VR fault management (default auto), according to uefi Asus recommends disabling it when OC..



where witten the Asus bios you find it?



Live OR Die said:


> Try manual voltage don't use adaptive when stress testing as it can spike higher than you have set, Best to find your stable manual voltage then set it to adaptive after and let it be.



well so if i can get it down to like 1.050V or something like then set it to adaptive would keep it there?


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## TheHunter (Nov 23, 2013)

Its in AI tweaker tab, below DIGI+







Yes if you set total adaptive voltage at 1.050v it will be around that. It will go to 1.13v in heavy avx apps; x264 video codec has few spikes, but nothing like those burn-in tests.

About cache at adaptive it will use a little higher 0.02-0.03v at full stress (cinebench, etc) 1.140v >> 1.165v, check with aida64, hwinfo64, etc..


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 23, 2013)

puma99dk| said:


> where witten the Asus bios you find it?
> 
> 
> 
> well so if i can get it down to like 1.050V or something like then set it to adaptive would keep it there?



Yes you only need to set the turbo adaptive voltage, after you find out what voltage is good for your chip.


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## TheHunter (Nov 25, 2013)

Btw BSOD WMEA 0x124 can happen by unstable ram as well, its not just for cpu or cache.

I had 2200mhz for a while, CL9-11-10-27-1T, but lately around the time when I updated from 1504 to 1602 the system started to act funny, sometimes i would get bsod by boot or couldn't keep system stable like it was before..


I remembered about DRAM 4ACT WIN Time topic here in this thread and when I changed it from 32 to 40 and tRFC from 171 to 184 it stopped.

made a quick google search, not my bios pic


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## freaksavior (Nov 26, 2013)

So at what point do you mess with the other voltages? Example with my i7 if I go any further than 4.4 on the 1.26 i'm pushing it crashes. I don't want to up the vcore that much more. What's next?


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## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 27, 2013)

petedread said:


> @MxPhenom 216 the gigabyte bios does look nice but unless you get one of the OC boards you won't have as many bios features as the asus boards.


 
I already have the Asus Maximus VI Hero.


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## TheHunter (Nov 27, 2013)

Here is a funny thing, lately Im stable and next day it can bsod. >_<


For example yesterday I was ok, but today when I ran LostPlanet 2 dx9 windowed 720p with jobthread 8 - fixed bench it crashed and reset my pc, Cinebench doesn't do that even though it stresses cpu to the max and uses around the same wattage..

-Cache x42 (tested from 1.135 - 1.147v) and std xmp memory 2133mhz

-Cpu 47x tested from 1.270v to 1.289v, most stable at ~1.278 -1.285v.



So anyway I set cpu vcore at 1.283v adaptive, lowered cache to 41x with 1.120v adaptive and yes it passed 2 runs in LostPlanet2, while a moment ago at 42x with 1.147v it bsod by most demanding part -- eats up 120-125W cpu, max in cinebench15 115w or so.

I tested further and lowered cpu vcore to 1.278v and yes it still passed.. So I think its definitely cache limiting my OC, 4.6ghz at 1.230v could run cache at 44x with 1.167v, ram 2200mhz no problem.


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## cadaveca (Nov 27, 2013)

reset without BSOD is likely ram or CPU cache, so it sounds like you're looking at the right areas to tweak.


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## ikoslog (Nov 28, 2013)

I've been looking everywhere for batch numbers .. but have seen nothing thus far on my batch number.

I am doing a rather high end build, waiting on all the parts -- with an ASUS-Z87-PRO matched with an i7-4770k on Water.  

The Chip came in today,.. and it is Batch 327.

Looking at the batch numbers so far this must be a fairly recent release.  Anyone have any reports on the 327 batch?


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 28, 2013)

Ill check mine when I get home.

Batch is L309.


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## TheHunter (Nov 28, 2013)

ikoslog said:


> I've been looking everywhere for batch numbers .. but have seen nothing thus far on my batch number.
> 
> I am doing a rather high end build, waiting on all the parts -- with an ASUS-Z87-PRO matched with an i7-4770k on Water.
> 
> ...



Interesting, didnt see this batch yet, do report how it goes 

btw mine is also kinda rare L308B202, i didnt see much of this batch


cadaveca said:


> reset without BSOD is likely ram or CPU cache, so it sounds like you're looking at the right areas to tweak.



Ok, im still ok now next day with lower 1.278v voltage (passed both LP2 and RE5 720p jobthread8 stress test), stupid cache 


my final settings are
cpu 4.7ghz @ 1.278v adpative, LLC 6, vrm optimized, cpu power 130%; cpu VR fault management disabled
cache 3.5Ghz - 4.1Ghz @ 1.120v adaptive
cpu system agent, +0.010v
SVID auto, 1.80v
PCH and PCH I/O VLX both 1 steep higher then default
cpu spread spectrum disabled


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 28, 2013)

So i'm at 4.6Ghz on 1.24v with my memory @ 2133Mhz for me to run it @ 2400Mhz i needed 1.26v, The question is, Is it worth me going from 4.4Ghz to 4.6Ghz? I'm seeing around 5-10c increase in temps i run a quick test on the FPU setting just to see if my system holds i don't see the point in running it any longer as it create unrealistic temps.


I have no idea why some of my voltages go up to 1.264v when there set on manual @ 1.24v.


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## TheHunter (Nov 28, 2013)

what LLC do you use? 

I think at auto it uses max LLC = 8.


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 28, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> what LLC do you use?
> 
> I think at auto it uses max LLC = 8.



Yer its on auto so i'm not sure if it jumping to 1.264v is that most likely what my cpu needs?


On ether OC 4.4 or 4.6 when i stress the cache in aida64 she locks up I've never really touched this test before seeing my system has been running @ 4.4Ghz stable for over 2 months i'm not sure whats the point ? also voltage was on adaptive still locked up.


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## TheHunter (Nov 28, 2013)

If you set 1.245v and see 1.265 its because of LLC.. I get sometimes small over voltage too at LLC6, 1.278v can go as high as 1.2803v in very heavy cpu load (cinebench15).


Well idk Aida64 runs ok here, no lockups but yeah it can reach 80-90C really quick.,
Dont run that fpu test at adaptive voltage or it will use over 1.32v.


Do you have cache multi at auto or tweaked it a bit?


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 28, 2013)

I forgot i set the cache voltage to 1.13 which seem to be why it was locking up, Yer i always set it to adaptive in the bios but when i do tests i change it in AI suite, Should i set the LLC to 1 ?


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## TheHunter (Nov 28, 2013)

Well that voltage bump seems ok like by me, I would set it to 5 or 6. I've read once when using adaptive its best to use LLC at 75% and that is LLC ~5-6.


Yep cache can be tricky, did you raised cache multi by 1.13v or used default 39x?


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 28, 2013)

OK thanks i set it to LLC 6 and I always match the cache with the cores so it was set on 46x seems like i need a high cache voltage it still not stable on 1.28v.


When i leave the cache voltage on auto its setting it to adaptive @ 1.275v and that for my 4.4Ghz OC @ 1.2v that seems very high?


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## TheHunter (Nov 28, 2013)

Ah you keep core/cache in sync, I think that's your problem. 


According to Aida64 this cache is like cpu build-in north bridge for memory, pcie ,L-cache.. At default 3.9ghz its already fast enough. 


You won't notice a difference if its at 4.1 ghz or 4.6ghz, I tested up to 4.4ghz and yeah it acted the same like at 4.0 or 4.1ghz.


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## ikoslog (Nov 28, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Interesting, didnt see this batch yet, do report how it goes
> 
> btw mine is also kinda rare L308B202, i didnt see much of this batch



I will report my OC efforts with this L327 Batch in this thread -- It seems pretty new, crossing my fingers it happens to be a "good" OC'er.. I'm really only hoping for stable 4.2 clocks really.. but I will push it to see what it can do for my own interest, and you guys.. if it handles higher clocks then people will know more about this particular batch. 

Here's a pic of the chip if any are interested...


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 28, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Ah you keep core/cache in sync, I think that's your problem.
> 
> 
> According to Aida64 this cache is like cpu build-in north bridge for memory, pcie ,L-cache.. At default 3.9ghz its already fast enough.
> ...




Ill have to test this out i was wondering why some people where running low voltages for high oc's that would be why.


Yer i can see there's no point on Overclocking the cache there no real boost.


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 29, 2013)

I seem to be stable @ 4.6Ghz on 1.25v on LLC 6 with cache left on 39x is there any fast way to do a stability test?

Edit

After do a few runs of asus's real bench i got a bsod so i increased it to 1.26v which seems to be stable running 10 runs of real bench.


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## TheHunter (Nov 29, 2013)

I always found LostPlanet2 benchmark, dx9 mode - fixed benchmark (2min or so) to be a good stability indicator as well (loop it few times).. Just set in cfg in my documents/capcom jobthread=8 instead of 4 and lower reso to 720p with no aa.


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 29, 2013)

The H.264 video encoding on real bench is what my system isn't passing a bsod will pop up random, So i bumped up the voltage again to 1.265 so far so good but with LLC on 6 it bumps it up to 1.28v , Do you think im getting into a area my H100i will have a problem with and for that much more voltage is the extra 200Mhz worth it?


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## TheHunter (Nov 29, 2013)

Yeah x264 hd benchmark can be tricky too, usually if it only crashes with exe stopped responding you're almost at the right voltage. 
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=520


As for the voltage, well my H90 with PP fans is around your H100i and I can get away with ~ 1.30v, to stay below 75C in non avx apps aka Prme95,..


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 29, 2013)

Do you run 1.282v with LLC 6 is that about 1.3v? i think my chip needs 1.270-1275v for 4.6Ghz so our chips are very close to each other.


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## TheHunter (Nov 29, 2013)

Actually now Im fine at 4.7Ghz @ 1.278v with yes LLC6,  it can go up to max 1.2805v or so accroding to RealTemp T|I. I tried even lower 1.275v but it bosd eventually in LostPlanet2 fixed benchmark 2nd loop

My problem before was cache at 42x and OC'ed ram instability, now im at cache 41x, default 2133mhz and all is ok.

I can run ram at 2200mhz (tweaked tWCL 9) @4.7Ghz, but for that I have to lower cache to 40x. For example 4.6ghz can run 2200mhz and cache at 43x or 44x.


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## TheHunter (Nov 29, 2013)

Bios settings @ 4.7Ghz




 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Edit: I see I forgot to lower cpu System Agent Vcssa, its still at +0.010v >> this kinda helped by higher ram speed.. I'll just keep it how it is.


EDIT2: I tried lower Vcssa +0.005v and it bsod, looks like I really need +0.010v  for that particular lower cpuv.


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 30, 2013)

I wouldn't worry about the overclocking the cache/nb it doesn't give any Performance boost, I found RealTemp T|I doesn't read the right VID voltage try using the AI suite from ASUS.


Also try using RealBench and setting it on 10 runs of the H.264 Video Encoding see if it passes.


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## Kursah (Nov 30, 2013)

I'm going to try the tests you did Live OR Die...that has some interesting results I feel are OP worthy. I know it's been stated before but having some SN's to prove it, and from multiple sources might prove helpful. This chip I have now does 41X cache pretty easily...with like 1.17v iirc...but maybe I could drop my 1.24v for my 4.5OC....maybe not. But it'd be worth a shot. 

AIDA and HWMonitor report my voltage correctly as well. AI Suite of course does too.


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 30, 2013)

Yer i would like to see what you come up with .

4.7Ghz isn't stable for me on 2.75v haven't tried 2.78v but with LLC6 my voltage can jump to 2.96v CPU-Z also reads the correct voltage RealTemp doesn't, I also tried 2133mhz on my ram didn't help it bsod when doing the benchmark i haven't touched my Vcssa yet, I think i mite stick with 4.6Ghz and get that stable 1st.


Edit 1

So i seem to be stable @ 4.6Ghz with 1.27v LLC6, with my ram left @ 2400Mhz.

Edit 2

Still not 100% sure its stable played 5 games of BF4 and got a sound loop hard crash not sure if it was the OC or not.


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## TheHunter (Nov 30, 2013)

Well I found a game (Bf3 or RE5 dx9 or LP2 dx9 fixed) more stressful then this x264, ok i got higher temps by this x264 but it was stable.


Btw i ran Aida64 in the background to monitor temps and it showed the same rough min-max voltage as RealTemp TI., in bios set to 1.278v >> aida64 showed from 1.280 - 1.278v





Edit: I think you will need Vcssa a little, try +0.010v - its nothing just to see if it helps or lower cache to 40x.

But then again this BF4 sound loop is quite common, could be only a game bug atm.


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## TheHunter (Nov 30, 2013)

Yep, Now I played with LLC a bit and LLC6 has to be 1.278v, LLC5  1.281v and here is the tricky part, Vcssa does help and stops WMEA 0x124 bosd too.

I was ok at LLC5 1.281v but with Vcssa - auto > 0.816v it bosd halfway through LP2 - fixed bench., with 0.010v it passed few times, but I noticed it heats up a little more with LLC6 & higher Vcssa (2-5C)


Im now at 0.005v to see if that's enough otherwise i'll go back to +0.010v, funny thing is im ok at default Vcssa for 4.6ghz @ 1.228v...

*Edit:* no not enough, 0.010v is min and LLC6 also, LLC5 has too much drops - I think it was  woomper mentioning it here ~ 22page.. 
LLC7 has no drop, LL6  a little, LLC5 also on SVID drop. 



Guess its only +4.7GHz that needs some fine tuning..


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## LiveOrDie (Nov 30, 2013)

I increased my voltage to 1.272 so far so good thats with 2400mhz ram, 4.6ghz @ 1.228v is good wish my chip could do that, I still haven't touched my Vcssa haven't had need to does it help stabilize your memory? I leave my cache on auto which is 39x there no reason to overclock it it does nothing as its just the NB chip.


x264 on real branch will put your chip under more stress than a game will.


EDIT

Yep 1.272v with LLC 6 seems to be may stable setting for 4.6Ghz just played 7 matches of BF4 with no problems and temps where just hitting 60c with a ambient temp of 25c.


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## TheHunter (Dec 1, 2013)

I thought it stabilized my memory, but I looks like I need +0.010v in general if I want lower cpu volts at 4.7GHz.

Vcssa -auto and I need 1.287v or so i think, I didnt test anymore.



I'll just stick with this 4.7Ghz @1.280v, LLC6.. I can't use higher anyway H90 is to weak sadly -_-


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 2, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> I thought it stabilized my memory, but I looks like I need +0.010v in general if I want lower cpu volts at 4.7GHz.
> 
> Vcssa -auto and I need 1.287v or so i think, I didnt test anymore.
> 
> ...



The Vccsa AKA System Agent Voltage is ment to be on 0.8 when mines on auto its 0.808v some time jumps to 0.816v, What does yours report in AIDA64?


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## TheHunter (Dec 2, 2013)

Same as you, default 0.808 - 0.816v.
Btw cpu powersaving can lower this when in idle (so that 0.808v).


Im now at 4.6ghz @ 1.230v LLC5, Vcssa auto, no problem. I think I just stay with this as well, its a lot cooler in general.

Bf3 example
4.6@1.230v max cpu spike on hottest core 1 was 61C
4.7@1.280v max cpu spike on hottest core1 was 69C


----------



## LiveOrDie (Dec 3, 2013)

Is your chip been delidded those temps are a bit high for those voltages my chip sits @ 60c on BF4 on 1.272v .


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## TheHunter (Dec 3, 2013)

No its not delidded.


Well that Bf3 temp. was max max spike on hottest core - core1 (1hr gaming)., Im usually avg ~ 43-56C across all 4 cores.


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 3, 2013)

Here are my temps after 6 games of BF4 ambient temp was 26c, Even when the weather heats up and i'm getting ambient temps of 32c my temps should still be under 70c , before i delidded my chip i was get 75c @ 4.4ghz on 1.2v playing BF4, 75c for normal use would be my max if my chip went over it when doing normal tasks then i would drop it down a tad.


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## TheHunter (Dec 3, 2013)

This is what I get in LP2 -fixed benchmark, dx9 720p, noaa, jobthread=8 (default =4).


Spoiler



Cfg found @ C:\Users\username\Documents\capcom\LOST PLANET 2 Benchmark Version

[GAME]
MouseBaseSpeed=2.000000
[GRAPHICS]
HDR=FLOAT
AntiAlias=NONE
SLI=OFF
Stereo=OFF
TextureDetail=HIGHEST
TextureMipLimite=32
WireFrame=OFF
Direction=HIGH
PartsChain=ON
BloomFilter=ON
DOFFilter=ON
SwingGrass=ON
EnvMap=ON
FieldEffect=ON
Physics=HIGH
IKQuality=MIDDLE
ScrollLOD=HIGH
ObjectLOD=HIGH
EffectVolume=HIGH
EffectQuality=HIGHEST
MotionBlurQuality=NONE
ShadowQuality=NONE
Dx11Feature=MIDDLE
DX11 Shadow=ON
Tessellation=MEDIUM
ObjectTessellationFactorCoef=2.000000
SwingTessellationFactorCoef=2.000000
DX11 Soft Body Sim=ON
EnableWaveParticle=ON
[DISPLAY]
Resolution=1360x768
Aspect=DEFAULT
RefreshRate=60.00Hz
FullScreen=OFF
VSYNC=OFF
[SOUNDS]
SeVoiceNum=80
*[CPU]
JobThread=8*




Its also the worse scenario in gaming, @ 4.7Ghz its ~ 68-73C on core1, depends on the room temp.

yesterday evening





Today






And the worst case temps, for example in Geekbench3 or cinebench15 , @ 4.7ghz its more toasty, 70-74C on core1






I would delidd but im to scarred, I've seen a few videos but its just to risky.. Maybe in 1-2years xD


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 3, 2013)

Those temps look good none are over 70c the highest i read is 66c which if good .

Dam you beat me on the single core bench . Yer delidding isn't for every one but it isn't hard to do not much harder than resetting your CPU with new thermal paste, Your TIM seems to be pretty good looking at your temps normally you would only delid if your temps are really bad like mine where @ 4.4Ghz on 1.2v  .


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## TheHunter (Dec 3, 2013)

Its a Noctua NT-H1, but pre-applied ShinEtsu was a little better (2-4C).

Yes 4.6Ghz is great, I managed to tweak some more, I lowered Cpu power to 120% and raised H90 fans a bit to 85% (min 60% - max 85% by 70C) - I have some Akasa Viper 1600rpm (3.12 h2o/mm) and it took down 2-4C..

this is with nothing running in the background so its a little higher score 




btw, its almost winter here so its even better then usual, room temp. ~19-20C.


I also tested 4.7Ghz again and yep it goes crazy, 1st core always the hottest ~69-74C, every minor bios voltage tweak affects it..
Looks like this H90 really can't handle over 1.26-1.27V..


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 4, 2013)

But your temps where all under 66c on the last screenshots you posted ? I use MX-4 have been for years  .


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## TheHunter (Dec 4, 2013)

yes before I used 130% and a little lower fan curve.
I think both affected it.


*Edit: *ok I think I may have found something, there appears to be some internal auto bios setting that goes a bit weird and sets to a higher value and causes higher temps 5-7C, idk but a moment ago I had those temps above.
I went in bios to double check settings saved profile, exit, tested again I got higher temps (max spike core1 68C in geekbench)..  I've reset bios to optimized defaults, re-applied those saved settings from before and its back to normal with (max spike core1 62C). heh weird stuff...

Guess if I tweak to much it goes berserk


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 4, 2013)

Are you sure its not the LLC ? there isn't many settings that will increase temps.


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## TheHunter (Dec 4, 2013)

Live OR Die said:


> Are you sure its not the LLC ? there isn't many settings that will increase temps.



To be honest, idk anymore.

I used LLC6 in both cases.. I did tweak with cpu VRM in digi+ set to standard and back to optimized and this cpu current 120-130%,..



Although I saw a few possible suspects at auto, I would tweak them but I just dont know to what. Its mostly in AI Tuner CPU power management tab and cpu integrated VR related..
- power current slope


> Allows you to set the gradient of the high-seed active phase current balance during load transients to eliminate current imbalance that can result from a load current oscillating near the switching frequency, Auto [LEVEL -4 to LEVEL 4]



-cpu integrated VR efficiency management  @ Auto (balanced, high perf.)


> allows you to improve power saving when the processor is in low power state,. Disable to make fully integrated VR work in high performance at all times


-power current offset @ Auto (100% to - 100%)


> allows you to increase or decrease the output current sensed by the cpu. It finds the balance between optimal regulating while staying below the current treshold


-power fast ramp response, Auto (0.00 to 1.50)


> Allows you to increase to enhance the response of the voltage regulator durring load transient




Idk, I hope Asus get this more under control in future bios., well earlier bios before 1504 or 1602 were more consistent, although they miss usb enhancements and they had a weird bios update (2-3 resets), now after v1504 only 1 reset.


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 4, 2013)

Odd i found using adaptive voltage some times can spike my temps higher than they normally go, As my CPU voltage some time hit 1.38v which is insane voltage for my H100i, I'm not sure how to stop the spiking on adaptive but they reckon voltage spikes only happen when stressing but can happen on normal usage like playing a game or rendering.


This was just running the Intel(R) Extreme Tuning Utility benchmark, Tomorrow ill leave hardware monitor running while playing BF4 so i can see the max load voltage you should do the same to see why your temps spike.


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## TheHunter (Dec 4, 2013)

Nah its not that, yeah adaptive voltage spikes in AVX apps Aida64, Prime95, IBT, Intel Bruning test, but not in games or Geekbench or Cinebench, rarely in x264 encoder..


Anyway I wont get to crazy about it, now I changed most stuff to manual in main AI tweaker menu and it seems to stick at lower temp., also blck is now at pinned 100.029mhz.


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 5, 2013)

post some screen shots up so i can see what you have changed mite help my temps to  .


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## TheHunter (Dec 5, 2013)

now "normal" ~62-64C







 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



I used LLC5 now and lower VRM balanced, but I also raised Vcssa to 0.002v just in case, because I saw it can help a little by lower cpuv.  


I will have to test in Bf3 if its 100% stable, other cpu only intense stuff passes fine.

EDIT: It passed BF3, but I disabled VRM spread spectrum - default disabled, if enabled it can make VRM react to slow and reset pc.


----------



## LAN_deRf_HA (Dec 5, 2013)

I have to overclock one of these things for someone else in a few days using a 4x4 samsung kit, 2400c9 stock. Do I have to do anything special for the ram or is all that stuff about Samsung issues only relevant for higher overclocks?


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## cadaveca (Dec 5, 2013)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> I have to overclock one of these things for someone else in a few days using a 4x4 samsung kit, 2400c9 stock. Do I have to do anything special for the ram or is all that stuff about Samsung issues only relevant for higher overclocks?




It depends on the board, ASUS boards in particular. Secondary timings set by BIOS default are often not what is set in XMP/SPD, which is what actually causes the problem for some users. Some kits work fine, some do not, those that OC better tend to work without adjustment, while those kits that are borderline will need manual adjustments to secondary timings.


The thing that makes it not that big of a deal, to me, is that all these Asus boards with the problem do have SPD tools in BIOS so you can check what settings your kit needs without much fuss.


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 5, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> now "normal" ~62-64C
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks man i may have to drop my overclock down to 4.4Ghz it depends if my new case can handle the temps seeing i can only use 2 fans instead of 4, I also set my CPU power phase to optimize and got a bsod so i put it back to auto, From all the videos i've watch about haswell overclocking all say they have problems using over 1866mhz ram settings with over 4.5Ghz, I don't get this problem just wish my chip could do 4.6Ghz @ 1.2v HAHA.




TheHunter said:


> Nah its not that, yeah adaptive voltage spikes in AVX apps Aida64, Prime95, IBT, Intel Bruning test, but not in games or Geekbench or Cinebench, rarely in x264 encoder..




Nope it does spike in BF4 it mite only be for a few seconds i'm not sure all i know is it mite be why i see a jump in temps.


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## TheHunter (Dec 5, 2013)

Hm, maybe it happens only during loading? Does Bf3 act the same?

Well I never monitored voltage like that (when in fullscreen), only temps&cpu usage in msi afterburner OSD..


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 6, 2013)

I would say they would be the same, just run HWM in the back ground and find out .


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## TheHunter (Dec 7, 2013)

I did a quick monitoring test in BF3 with HWinfo64 and it didnt go over fixed voltage.. Same in Grid2 avx.exe. Could be Bf4 specific?


Anyhow I saw this post, 


> I had been having sporadic issues with my PC resuming from Sleep or Hibernate... basically it would fail to boot up after being asleep for over an hour. Anyway after a lot of trial and error, i found a setting to fix this and also greatly improve how my CPU overclocks!!
> 
> I disabled these 2 options in the BIOS:
> ** Disabled C7 C-State
> ...



Specifically Multicore enhancement part; he use to run 4.2Ghz @1.228v..

I goggled a bit and it should be disabled once you OC and use sync all cores
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6214/



What do you all think?
I tested @ 4.6ghz atm and I could lower cpuv to 1.223v instead of 1.230v and it passed everything.. 
I guess its better keep disabled or does Enabled somehow stabilize long term turbo boost?


----------



## Kursah (Dec 7, 2013)

My question would be whether or not Multicore Enhancement should even be allowed to be enabled by default? I would assume it'd still just allow all cores to go to 3.9 or whatever the max turbo speed is versus the more limited stock Intel option...so it should have very little to do with OC's. But if it has some sort of effect then it's well worth disabling!

It would make sense that enabling it would bump the voltage up under load just to make sure all cores had enough to be stable at the max turbo clocks. I'll have to try this out and see what I get.


I'll have to research C7 C-State.

I have no issues coming out of sleep or anything...but my 4.5 @ 1.24 would be mighty nice at 1.23 or 1.22! One could only hope...now to hurry and get my final assignments done so I can tune my OC! 

This simple change sounds important enough to test out...I bet it'd work with most OC supporting boards that have this feature. Asrock boards come to mind. But I would also assume this isn't news to a board MFG that's had R&D time...I would assume they'd auto-disable such a feature...but maybe not just to guarantee stability??? I dunno. This just seems a little too odd to work...but I'm gonna try it! Hopefully soon!

Might be one more good tweak for the OP.


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 7, 2013)

I don't know i just turned it off and after my system got to the desktop it froze and rebooted but now it seems fine, i will try turning my voltage down to see but i really dont think it will do much also the settings on auto so you would think it would know when to disable it, and would it be on other boards being a Asus settings?

Hey Kursah what your batch on your chip seem very close to mine? 

EDIT 1
WTF Asus i thought right it its not meant to be used when overclock Asus would have it disabled in there video and guess what they do but they don't mention it once? Maybe in later bios's they enable it?


EDIT 2
Just to let you know it has no affect on my voltages at all i still need 1.275v for my crap chip to be stable @ 4.6Ghz, I mite stop the spiking im getting in BF4 but i really dont think so.


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## Kursah (Dec 7, 2013)

1.275 @ 4.6 is not a crap chip. I needed more than that to make 4.2 stable and even then it wasn't stable! That was indeed a crap chip! Yours is a decent clocker!


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 7, 2013)

I thought you had yours @ 4.5 @ 1.24v ? mine wont do that it will boot into windows but bsod on stressing i think i would need closer to 1.26v for 4.5ghz, I've seen chips run @ 4.6ghz on only 1.2v.


Edit even in bioshock infinite im getting the spike in voltage ?


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## TheHunter (Dec 7, 2013)

Hmm, i already deleted bioshock, do you have MaxPayne3, Tombraider 2013, Hitman Absolution, Crysis3, SC Blacklist, Sleeping Dogs, FarCry3?



Idk why you see that reading.. Does HWinfo64 show the same spike?

Is your SVID at auto or fixed value?



About that Asus Multi core, yep I was able to lower it, im gonna lower some more to 1.220v now..

But 4.7ghz needs min ~1.275v, i tryed 1.270v and it bsod.. Although I used lower vcssa +0.002v (had from 4.6ghz) instead of +0.010v like before..


*Edit: *1.220v (LLC6, 120%, VRM optimized, SVID 1.76v) passed LostPlanet2 dx9 fixed brute test , will see what's up with Re5 and then Bf3.




nvm that pcie clock guess it glitched cause I ran both monitoring apps at the same time..


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 7, 2013)

Yer my SVID is on auto i didnt need to change it at all for 4.6, HWinfo64 is the same this is just after loading into bioshock for 2 minute and quitting out.


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## TheHunter (Dec 7, 2013)

Ok i wasnt stable at 1.220v, looks like it needs min ~1.224v..


Do you have any other games mentioned above? I would try Bioshock but i have to dl 15gb...


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 7, 2013)

i have SC Blacklist ill try that and report back.


EDIT

This is a short 5 minutes in blacklist only core 2,3 spiked.


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## TheHunter (Dec 7, 2013)

ok I will try SC, brb


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## Kursah (Dec 7, 2013)

Live OR Die said:


> I thought you had yours @ 4.5 @ 1.24v ? mine wont do that it will boot into windows but bsod on stressing i think i would need closer to 1.26v for 4.5ghz, I've seen chips run @ 4.6ghz on only 1.2v.
> 
> 
> Edit even in bioshock infinite im getting the spike in voltage ?




My first chip...if you go back to the earlier pages of this thread I had OC issues with it. I replaced it with the one I have now.


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## TheHunter (Dec 7, 2013)

Hm it stays at fixed adaptive here, I've set to 1.225v (that multicore enhance off) in bios and this is what i get after ~ 10-15min



 




and when i started the game in fullscreen if its something by loading.. But nothing, weird





Edit; that guy replied and he said he needed 1.32v for 4.5ghz before with multicore enhance on,.. Huge drop for him, by me it was only 0.005 v xD, guess i have better control over it on my mobo.

My C7s state is fine though, guess its just his mobo bios a bit weird.  



> Previously i needed 1.32v for 4.5Ghz, so this is quite an improvement!!
> 
> I'm on the latest BIOS v1002 for my board but I've seen quite a few other people with this same motherboard with the same problem. I tried 3 different BIOS versions and all had problems with sleep/resume for me.
> 
> I don't mind disabling the C7 state, but i'll keep an eye out for BIOS updates if they fix it on the VI Hero board.


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 7, 2013)

Umm that odd i have no idea why i'm getting these spikes?

What other options are there for me to change i found a few other people with this problem.


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## TheHunter (Dec 7, 2013)

Maybe something in AI Tweaker - tweakers paradise tab, can you post a screen of it?


Ps did you disable cpu VR fault management? And are those 4 Turbo mode parameters at auto or manually set?



Does it happen with any bios?


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## TheHunter (Dec 8, 2013)

Abotu multi core enahcement, Asus reccomends on, well I can now run with 0.005v less and have same fps so I will keep it off. 

*Optimal CPU Core Use*
Ai Tweaker\ASUS MultiCore Enhancement setting is recommended to be Enabled to allow the ASUS BIOS to rebalance performance per watt ratio. Since ROG is focused on performance it provides a better design and overall system performance than the Intel native settings.

http://rog.asus.com/253522013/labels/rog-exclusive/maximus-vi-extreme-performance-tuning-guide/


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 8, 2013)

Here are the settings im using and heres the other thread i found http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthrea...age-spikes&s=65b303e8ac65f0710a28316cbb6dc4e5


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## TheHunter (Dec 8, 2013)

Ok 2-3 things look a bit so so.

I see you have SVID at auto and yet it defaults to stock 1.69V, this can be unstable at higher volts.. Keep main at auto and put in manually 1.79v by initial input voltage. Double check on next reboot if it sticks at 1.79v, if not load optimized default reboot and re-apply.

BCLK recovery? I see you have it enabled is it enabled by default?

in DIGI + set CPU current capability to 120-130% instead of default auto.



Idk about AVX spikes though, looks like mobo bios issue.. I will test Crysis3 now just to see, but i know Grid2 avx doesnt spike.

 


EDIT: well I still suspect ROG mobos, see here after 10-15min, nothing and I've shot at barres etc,.



EDIT2:

I think I finally know why it heats up 2-5C more at certain scenarios. DIGI+ is the cause, specifically CPU Power Phase control and CPU Current Capability.


*Tested in LP2 benchmark, jobthread=8, 720p, no aa, no blur, dx9; Test2
I didnt touch anything, cpu was at 1.225v, LLC6, SVID 1.76v and asus multi core enahnce off.

Cpu phase - standard, Cpu current 120%, lower temps but can bsod at higher load.
Cpu phase - standard, Cpu current 130%, lower temps, but I lost 2fps on avg (~122fps)
Cpu phase - optimized, cpu current 120%, 1-3C higher temp on hottest core, fps ~124.5fps
cpu phase - optimized, cpu current 130%, 4-5C higher temps on hottest core, max avg 125-126fps.


I will stick with option no3. , got even higher multi core this way, but ye 2C higher temp. 



-------------------------------------------------

Edit3:
@Live OR Die

igpu on or off?


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Dec 9, 2013)

Did anyone ever do tests to see if the newer CLCs run cooler with the block sideways on Haswell? I'm working with a FT02 so it would work out nicely if that were the case. From the tear down I saw I'm not sure if it would matter, looks like the flow is either coming or going directly through the center http://linustechtips.com/main/gallery/album/622-my-dead-corsair-h100i-teardown/


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 17, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Ok 2-3 things look a bit so so.
> 
> I see you have SVID at auto and yet it defaults to stock 1.69V, this can be unstable at higher volts.. Keep main at auto and put in manually 1.79v by initial input voltage. Double check on next reboot if it sticks at 1.79v, if not load optimized default reboot and re-apply.
> 
> ...



How do you turn off igpu i though it turns it self off when it detects a video card? also did you test with full screen as well? 

I have parts for my water cooling setup on the way i cant wait to see if it does any better than my H100i, Because i;m GPU will also be hooked to it.


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## TheHunter (Dec 17, 2013)

Ok nvm then, its off by default. I just thought maybe you enabled it for encoding, LucidVirtu, etc 

But do re-enable SVID and manually enter 1.80v by eventual cpu input voltage. 


> *SVID Support* controls whether or not the CPU’s FIVR (Fully Integrated Voltage Regulator) should communicate with the external voltage regulator (Extreme Engine DIGI+ III) for the delivery of the CPU Input Voltage. Configuration this option to Enabled essentially establishes this communication while setting it to *Disable* forbids such communication, which yields better O.C. margin as compared with having it enabled. Considering this is outside the Intel CPU integrated Voltage Regulator, disabling SVID Support will “Not” affect the Intel integrated power saving functionalities such as EIST and the various C-States.
> 
> Dividing the “CPU Input Voltage” into “*Initial CPU Input Voltage*” and “*Eventual CPU Input Voltage*” enables users to apply different level of CPU Input Voltage before and after the POST sequence. This enables the weaker processors to utilize a higher voltage during the POST sequence to power up, then utilize a relatively lower voltage later to prevent overheat or overstressing the processor.


http://rog.asus.com/254052013/maxim...ngs-for-overclocking-maximus-vi-motherboards/



Yes at first I played all those games in full screen, then minimized with alt+enter so I could include Hwinfo readings.


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 18, 2013)

I have one core hotter than the others on idle but on load they seem to even out, Should i redo my TIM once again would be the 3rd time each time i seem to get different results.

Core#1 is the core im talking about.


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## TheHunter (Dec 18, 2013)

Yours is delidded right?

Idk, maybe try it again, well I had to make it 3-4 times until I was happy with it, still not it thought, need better TIM. Noctua NT-H1 is great, but i saw 2-3C better pastes as well..

This is idle atm with max heat in the room. Idk feels like 23-26C, i can feel radiator heat coming from right side behind me.


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 18, 2013)

Yer mines delidded but getting the right amount of Liquid Pro under the IHS some time can be tricking as you only want to use a small amount i can see from my try i may have a spot with to little.


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## cadaveca (Dec 19, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Abotu multi core enahcement, Asus reccomends on, well I can now run with 0.005v less and have same fps so I will keep it off.
> 
> *Optimal CPU Core Use*
> Ai Tweaker\ASUS MultiCore Enhancement setting is recommended to be Enabled to allow the ASUS BIOS to rebalance performance per watt ratio. Since ROG is focused on performance it provides a better design and overall system performance than the Intel native settings.
> ...




That BIOS option makes all cores work at the same multi more consistently, when running stock. If you set all cores to the same ratio, the option doesn't do anything. Yes, they should have labelled it Core Multi Enhancement.


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 20, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Yours is delidded right?
> 
> Idk, maybe try it again, well I had to make it 3-4 times until I was happy with it, still not it thought, need better TIM. Noctua NT-H1 is great, but i saw 2-3C better pastes as well..
> 
> ...




Could you run a 3 min FPU test in AIDA64 i would like to see what temps you get on that voltage set it to manual for the test  , This is a 3min test with a room temp of 30c its summer here.

@ 1.2v 4.4Ghz


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## TheHunter (Dec 20, 2013)

Ok will do later,

I had some strange issues last night and I did some more testing/voltage tweaking

this is what i have if i lets say test x264, the worst worst temp so far. Adaptive voltage - avx spike on core3,4


&
Fritz


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 20, 2013)

Only one spike on core 0 for me and temps are very low seems this bench doesn't stress the FPU much at all, Seeing your @ 4.7Ghz your temps are OK but i don't think they would hold up under a FPU test very long.

PS the windows 8/8.1 theme sucks LOL.


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## TheHunter (Dec 20, 2013)

well cache test is ok, but by fpu it breaks 90-99C.. @ 1.28v, I guess max 4.5Ghz @ 1.18v.


*Edit:*
I would delid, I see a 15-20C drop for sure, but its just not worth it.. I dont have any application that utilizes such brute force avx2 90C so I dont mind, yes it looks nice at 67C in Linx or IBT, but nah, maybe in the distant future


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 21, 2013)

Yer it not for every one  , If you getting around 90-99c from the FPU test in a game your temps would be around 20c lower, So around 70-80c which is on the boarder line, Really your chip is one of the best i've seen temp wise for a none delidded chip, My CHIP on stock speeds uses to hit 90c on the FPU test in 3 seconds, The only problem your going to get over time is the paste will dry out and temps may increase.


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## TheHunter (Dec 21, 2013)

I just got BF4 and no avx spikes there either, temps are around the same as by BF3, max 67C on hottest core (during loading only) so I think its "ok" - this is at 4.7Ghz @ 1.281v (in win).


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## TheHunter (Dec 21, 2013)

Here is one "bad" thing with per-core cpu voltage, check core0.

Its also the hottest core in every scenario






so far im torn between 1.280 and 1.281v, heh I still need to do some fine tuning at 1.280v. 
I thought it was ok 1.278v (all tests passed),  but then it failed in really long Bf3, Bf4 sessions 1.281v passed in the end.. I guess it was probably core3 fault- not enough voltage


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 21, 2013)

I can't stop the spikes its ether my board or CPU i'm sure they only last a second at the most because even after playing hours of BF4 my temps are still around the same as they would be on a manual vid. But yer i would keep it @ 4.7 if your temps are that low  .


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## TheHunter (Dec 21, 2013)

Did it also happen before delid?


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## vega22 (Dec 21, 2013)

fuckers!

i need 1.38vcore for 4.5ghz stable


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## TheHunter (Dec 21, 2013)

What's your batch?


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 21, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> Did it also happen before delid?



Yer how would delidding change voltages , I'm sure it has some thing to do with my board.



marsey99 said:


> fuckers!
> 
> i need 1.38vcore for 4.5ghz stable



That does suck take it back or sell it and buy a new one .


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## Kursah (Dec 21, 2013)

Well I'm back to report I returned my CPU back to 1.241v for my 4.5Ghz OC. I had turned it down a bit after disabling the Multicore Enhance option...I think it was a pacebic effect and I started receiving x124 bsods while gaming or other processing intensive tasks...a couple cpu stress tests verified I needed to put it back up to where it was. I still can't complain, this second chip has been a very good one for me! I just thought I'd post my findings that in the end, disabling that setting didn't allow me to reduce my vcore with stability.


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## vega22 (Dec 21, 2013)

it's a, bit erm...too late.

got it cheap from a guy i know and i have since delidded and lapped it a little xD

i knew it wasnt a good chip going in, just hurts now seeing how good some are you know.


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## TheHunter (Dec 21, 2013)

^
at least its ok now delidded 


Anyway I noticed this,  1.280v won't be stable (heavy cpu/gpu test - LP2 dx9 test2) unless I raise System voltage Vccsa to 0.010+ (0.824v), which also raises VTT a bit 0.003v, LLC6, current 110%, VRM optimized, SVID auto 1.79v.

But when i change to 1.282v which also makes core0 1.283v its fine, even with Vcssa - auto (0.816v), rest of the stuff is the same..

Anyway this is it. Cant do more to get it down unless i try a better paste  ^^

And I was already looking at Thermaltake TG-1 or Gelid Extreme 
 
Noctua NT-H1 is great and all, but I have a feeling default pre-applied Shin-Etsu was a little better 2-3C (by max temp) and pic 1 kinda confirms it.


----------



## LAN_deRf_HA (Dec 23, 2013)

I have to say overclocking Haswell was radically easier than I had expected. I just researched common rules and settings and guesstimated voltages based on the stock. One crash and a VCCSA bump later and it's been solid through all the tough tests and games for a few days now. It could still crash of course but I wasn't expecting to get so far in just 30 minutes of tweaking. Probably helps it's a decent chip. That heat though is absurd. It's ok for 95% of apps, 55-82c depending, but then there's some random stuff like Crysis 3 that pushes it to 99c, but I get the impression it's not a critical issue if your volts are low.


----------



## TheHunter (Dec 24, 2013)

Crysis3 pushing it to 90C, really?

I will have to play more.. Im still in the beginning and I averaged ~ 45-52C (check msi afterburner temp.)

View attachment 53284


Max temp. so far @ 4.7Ghz 1.280v was in Bf4 core0 @ 72C (by loading), avg ~45-59C.


----------



## LAN_deRf_HA (Dec 24, 2013)

Even puts me into the 80s with my 3770k. Both systems are on low fan speeds though.


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 24, 2013)

Just picked up a EK Coolstream PE 240mm Radiator still waiting on a few other parts should get some better temps over this H100i.


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## TheHunter (Dec 24, 2013)

btw Turbo boost on or off?

I saw one user and he said this


> I don't need it enabled since I'm overclocking via multiplier. Plus I have speedstep on, so my clocks and voltage drop when at idle.



when I asked more specific



> I'm not really sure how turbo boost works. All my previous Intel CPUs had it disabled from the start because I've always overclocked via the multiplier.



I have mine on from the moment i bought it, so should i keep it on or off? will it be stabler or use different trubo multi this way ?


----------



## LiveOrDie (Dec 24, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> btw Turbo boost on or off?
> 
> I saw one user and he said this
> 
> ...



Turbo boost is a part of the CPUs architecture its always enabled, disabling it and overclocking using the BClock will just limit you also be less stable, Give it a go you will see what i mean.


----------



## vega22 (Dec 24, 2013)

no you can oc the turbo by raising the per core turbo or you can oc the k multi and just increase the max multi.

both work but some mobo only like you doing one or the other.

i think he means he is using the k multi and not the turbo per core option.

i find the per core option is better for low speeds (read day to day settings) while ocing th k multi is best for high speed bench runs and such.

edit

i think i might have it stable @4.5ghz on 1.28 vcore. lower vcore but increase vtt and vring. seems to work.


----------



## LiveOrDie (Dec 25, 2013)

both will work but i found it was less stable.


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## TheHunter (Dec 25, 2013)

Less stable without turbo boost? Well I didnt test yet.. 


I was gonna now, but guess I won't bother


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 25, 2013)

As its over clocking the base clock which is 3500Mhz you have to put thought into what values need to be changed, I found i couldn't get the same speed out of the bclock that i did overclocking the turbo clock using the same settings, It will request increasing the none turbo voltage as well which you know there is no adaptive setting for so you lose out on that feature.


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## HammerON (Dec 25, 2013)

Live OR Die said:


> Just picked up a EK Coolstream PE 240mm Radiator still waiting on a few other parts should get some better temps over this H100i.


 I use the EK CoolStream 240 XT and it does a good job along with the EK Supremacy block. Will be interested to see how your temps fair. What block are you going to use?


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 26, 2013)

HammerON said:


> I use the EK CoolStream 240 XT and it does a good job along with the EK Supremacy block. Will be interested to see how your temps fair. What block are you going to use?



I've got a Swiftech Apogee Drive II CPU Waterblock/Pump i hear these hold up really well for being a combo unit.


----------



## vega22 (Dec 26, 2013)

nah, swapping vcore for other volts only made it take longer to crash, it was not 100% stable


----------



## Frizz (Jan 5, 2014)

Tested for 4 hours ages ago in like 30+ Deg Cel ambient  with pump settings on #2 which is barely audible. Not delidded, not sure if its worth it based on these results.


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## LiveOrDie (Jan 5, 2014)

random said:


> Tested for 4 hours ages ago in like 30+ Deg Cel ambient  with pump settings on #2 which is barely audible. Not delidded, not sure if its worth it based on these results.



Don't use prime as it doesn't stress the FPU try ether AIDA64 using just the FPU test or IntelBurnTest V2, You will see your temps will be higher.


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## TheHunter (Jan 6, 2014)

Ok about my 2400mhz ram OC adventures, I knew i should do better then just 2200mhz.
I bought it specifically because I saw it can do up to 2690mhz 
http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/333...benchmarkoc-results-11-13-13-timings--17-volt

Anyway its not DRAM phase clock fault, or  RTL IOR?.. I left both at auto

the main issue is/was in  these 6-7 adv timings
tWR 16
tRFC 313 (214 is ok)
tWTR 9 (or 8, but didnt try yet)
tRRD 7 (or 6)
tRTP 9 (or 8)
tFAW 27 (or 26)
tWCL 7



I spotted this here - G.Skill adv timings
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6374/geil-evo-veloce-review-2x8gb-at-ddr32400-c111212-165-v

and now i get this with  -tRFC 214 and 100% stable,




Usually the system shutdown by now with my old tweak DRAM phase clock = 9..


I also ran geekbench3 and saw a minor ram boost (although its 4.5ghz vs 4.7ghz), very small though lol, but hey at least i made it 2400mhz. Finally 





EDIT: and 1T can lower L2 cache ns latency.

With 2T its 4.5 - 4.8ns, now max 3.3ns just like by 2133mhz using 1T.

I lost read and copy a bit, but its still over 35gb/s.




the fix was CL10-12-11-31, instead of CL10-11-11-31


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## TheHunter (Jan 18, 2014)

Im still @ 2400mhz OC since my last post and no problems yet, I even lowered them a bit to CL10-12-11-28-1T 



was at adaptive voltage..


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## Kursah (Jan 18, 2014)

Well I just flashed to the newest BIOS which detailed that it "improves stability". I have gone back to using the newest OCCT and it's PSU test so can test overall system stability. I cannot seem to pass with my current settings. I do use linpack x64 + all logical cores which pushes another 10-12C load on each core (pushing upper-80s and low-90's with that enabled!). I have had some BSOD's which I haven't traced yet (Windows 8 BSOD sad face is lame! lol). I want to keep it at 4.5Ghz but if I can't pass my preferred stress test I may need to back off. I've preferred OCCT because of it's PSU test and it's ability to really heat systems up and push their limits. Apparently my limits have been found. This rig has been solid in gaming and everything I've thrown at it though...which makes it hard for me to justify that there may be an issue...but if it's waiting to crop up I'd rather be able to pass this test. I'm thinking of backing off the speed because I don't really want to push voltages too much further.

I will note that the current version of OCCT does NOT push voltages past the set specs if you're using adaptive mode unless you choose the CPU only test with AVX. Then my 1.24v turns into 1.35v+! Yikes! I will say nothing else I've done in normal use gets my GPU, MB or CPU at these temps so that's a plus.


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## LiveOrDie (Jan 25, 2014)

Its not the best temps this is with a ambient of 30c this is a full loop with a 240mm rad, What do you guys think i think i could get better temps maybe trying to remount the block but i really cant be bothered you can see why below lol.

@ 4.4Ghz on 1.2v


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 25, 2014)

Guess I'll be joining. Have a i7-4770. Waiting for board to arrive though


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## Kursah (Jan 25, 2014)

Well I finally got around to getting OCCT to pass a 6-hour PSU test with Linpack, all logical cores at 4.4Ghz. I tried 4.5Ghz up to 1.245v, I may try 1.25v, but that's gonna push my temps into the 90s with my air cooling. I did however back off and just happened to try 4.4 @ 1.21v and it went without issue and my load temps dropped a little too. I'm going to try 1.20 for 1-hour next. I'd be willing to give up 100Mhz for cooler temps and lower voltage, I'm hoping to hit the hi teens.

Edit: Well I tried 1.19 for 1-hour, good, 1.18 for 1-hour locked up, trying 1.185v now. I'll take that for 4.4ghz vs 1.24+v for 4.5ghz. Maybe if I had water I could push further.


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## PolRoger (Jan 31, 2014)

It has been a while since I've posted here...

My chip is always "crunching" 24/7 and I had previously settled on a 4.6GHz clock but I recently updated my BIOS and thought I try again to get a stable 4.7GHz long term "crunching" overclock.  I've managed to pass 64 hours @ 100% load but I'm still expecting that I'm going to run into a random BSOD sometime over the next few days.


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## LiveOrDie (Feb 1, 2014)

PolRoger said:


> It has been a while since I've posted here...
> 
> My chip is always "crunching" 24/7 and I had previously settled on a 4.6GHz clock but I recently updated my BIOS and thought I try again to get a stable 4.7GHz long term "crunching" overclock.  I've managed to pass 64 hours @ 100% load but I'm still expecting that I'm going to run into a random BSOD sometime over the next few days.
> 
> View attachment 54458



What stress test are you running those temps seem to low?


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## TheHunter (Feb 1, 2014)

Do you need that  Vccsa @ 0.896v?


I tested this once and it looked like higher vccsa lowered cpuv a bit.. Is it the same by you?


----------



## PolRoger (Feb 1, 2014)

Live OR Die said:


> What stress test are you running those temps seem to low?



I'm not stressing with Prime, Linpac  or AIDA64... I'm just running BOINC Rosetta@home which is kind of like WCG or Folding@home. So far... I've now passed 87 hrs. with 8 threads @ 100% load. Cooling is custom water on an open bench with a triple 140 rad. Ambient temps right now ~18/19 C.




TheHunter said:


> Do you need that  Vccsa @ 0.896v?
> 
> 
> I tested this once and it looked like higher vccsa lowered cpuv a bit.. Is it the same by you?



I've been pretty much running most of my overclocks with a slight bump to VccSA... running now with +.075?  Also running CPU Digital I/O @ +.100 and CPU Cache @ 1.136v


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## Durvelle27 (Feb 7, 2014)




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## ...PACMAN... (Feb 7, 2014)

Getting a 4770k real soon. Any proof that the i7s clock higher with lower voltage?

Previously had a 4670k but needed 1.27v for a stable 4.5ghz.

Gonna be updating my cooling as well. Seriously considering H105, should be plenty right?


----------



## Womper (Feb 7, 2014)

PolRoger said:


> It has been a while since I've posted here...
> 
> My chip is always "crunching" 24/7 and I had previously settled on a 4.6GHz clock but I recently updated my BIOS and thought I try again to get a stable 4.7GHz long term "crunching" overclock.  I've managed to pass 64 hours @ 100% load but I'm still expecting that I'm going to run into a random BSOD sometime over the next few days.



Heh, been a while for me too. I'm about to catch up on the latest BIOS and drivers, decided to check-in here.



Kursah said:


> Well I just flashed to the newest BIOS which detailed that it "improves stability". I have gone back to using the newest OCCT and it's PSU test so can test overall system stability. I cannot seem to pass with my current settings.



I'm still on the 1405 BIOS. Any verdict on the new 1707 BIOS?

I ran into a couple more random BSOD over the past 4 months, and each time bumped up my core and cache voltages. I'm at 1.285v adaptive on both core and cache now, still with a 4.7GHz core, 4.5GHz cache, and DDR @ 2133. I'm pretty happy with my chip still, I expected a few more BSOD to flush out.



...PACMAN... said:


> Getting a 4770k real soon. Any proof that the i7s clock higher with lower voltage?
> 
> Previously had a 4670k but needed 1.27v for a stable 4.5ghz.
> 
> Gonna be updating my cooling as well. Seriously considering H105, should be plenty right?



I swapped my Swiftech H220 out when its pump seized. Swiftech fixed it, but I just don't need that much cooling now that I'm done stress testing my chip. PM me if you're interested in it.

I'm using my CNPS10x HSF again. I did a real nice job mounting it this time, my idle temps are now the same as ambient (~19C).


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## Kursah (Feb 8, 2014)

Womper said:


> Heh, been a while for me too. I'm about to catch up on the latest BIOS and drivers, decided to check-in here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So far I can't complain. I can pass OCCT now back at my 1.241v @ 4.5Ghz and 4.0core on 1.06v (iirc...it might be 1.16v...whatever the stock variable was...), but I can only pass on the CPU tests, if I do the PSU combined test something happens so I'm still looking into that a little bit...though I don't crash in games so it's more of a personal challenge. 

I can't say 1707 did much of anything...other than improve the response of the mouse cursor in the UEFI interface.


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## Womper (Feb 10, 2014)

Kursah said:


> So far I can't complain. I can pass OCCT now back at my 1.241v @ 4.5Ghz and 4.0core on 1.06v (iirc...it might be 1.16v...whatever the stock variable was...), but I can only pass on the CPU tests, if I do the PSU combined test something happens so I'm still looking into that a little bit...though I don't crash in games so it's more of a personal challenge.
> 
> I can't say 1707 did much of anything...other than improve the response of the mouse cursor in the UEFI interface.



I did notice that the CPU microcode patch changed from 0x9 to 0x12 when I moved from 1405 to 1707. Everything seems normal, I plugged in my settings from before and off I went. 

I tried to install the new chipset drivers, but the installer doesn't seem to find anything to upgrade. Strange, but I haven't had any problems anyways so whatever.


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## TheHunter (Feb 14, 2014)

PolRoger said:


> I've been pretty much running most of my overclocks with a slight bump to VccSA... running now with +.075?  Also running CPU Digital I/O @ +.100 and CPU Cache @ 1.136v




I see your mobo over volts cpu or hwinfo64 reads it wrong. You set to 1.274v but per core its 1.296v? Or is that higher VCCSA and digital IO fault?

This is how mine looks like @ 1.283v




see that core2 @ 1.285v,
if i set main to 1.282v then core2 goes to 1.280v and it can be kinda unstable unless i raise other parameters lol, funny stuff how main voltage scales per cores. 

1.280v makes most ~ 1.278-1.280v and its  kinda weird, its stable but then later its not again..


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## Solaris17 (Feb 14, 2014)

my bus will not stabilize at 100 on my UD3H is their a setting im missing? I have taken pretty much everything off of auto but i flux between 95/96


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## cadaveca (Feb 14, 2014)

Solaris17 said:


> my bus will not stabilize at 100 on my UD3H is their a setting im missing? I have taken pretty much everything off of auto but i flux between 95/96


set 100.3 manually. FSB has "holes", although every 0.1 MHz is selectable. Try the values between too, perhaps, but it's usually 100.3 that works on boards with 100.0 MHz "hole".


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## Solaris17 (Feb 14, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> set 100.3 manually.


ill give that a shot thanks dave i read the review you did on the msi (which was the contender to this board) and while im not expecting miracles i have to have even numbers. this haswell overclocking is crazy diff though. i have alot to catch up on since i went straight nehalem to this.


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## cadaveca (Feb 14, 2014)

Solaris17 said:


> ill give that a shot thanks dave i read the review you did on the msi (which was the contender to this board) and while im not expecting miracles i have to have even numbers. this haswell overclocking is crazy diff though. i have alot to catch up on since i went straight nehalem to this.


It's more complex, but actually simpler.

vCore is obvious, vccsa and Digi-IO/AnalogIO are memory controller, cache is cache. Keep that in mind, then everything from the past still applies.

Cache and CPU each have multi, do one at a time. No need to keep cache in sync with CPU speed, since it's not a bottleneck to connect to rest of system after about 3900 MHz. Faster is faster, of course, but cache is obviously the largest source of heat next to FIVR. Cache wasn't much of an issue with SNB/IVB, and Haswell has +25% cache performance it seems(makes sense given process size reduction, plus library enhancements), so keeping cache @ 75% of CPU speed is still pretty efficient for most workloads.

Memory controller is very different, if you had good sticks, they'll fly sky-high on 1150, might be worth keeping depending on size, etc.


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## PolRoger (Feb 14, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> I see your mobo over volts cpu or hwinfo64 reads it wrong. You set to 1.274v but per core its 1.296v? Or is that higher VCCSA and digital IO fault?
> 
> This is how mine looks like @ 1.283v



You have your "vcore" sensors for core 0/1/2/3 hidden... While showing all the core VID readings?  I have mine set to show just the Core 0 VID and all four of my vcore sensors. My 4.7 o.c. is still not fully dialed in... I got up to a max of ~160 hrs load before BSOD with my previous settings but additional testing has proved not stable so I've now bumped up vcore trying to find long term stability.


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## Solaris17 (Feb 14, 2014)

Hm bumping to 100.3 didnt stick. im not sure what to do its almost their is some automatic setting getting in the way.


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## TheHunter (Feb 14, 2014)

Try cpu strap @ 100mhz fixed and its source clock filtering to 60ohm. This will make a fixed blck 100.29mhz

*one older screen





like in my pic below when it shows 4701mhz




PolRoger said:


> You have your "vcore" sensors for core 0/1/2/3 hidden... While showing all the core VID readings?  I have mine set to show just the Core 0 VID and all four of my vcore sensors. My 4.7 o.c. is still not fully dialed in... I got up to a max of ~160 hrs load before BSOD with my previous settings but additional testing has proved not stable so I've now bumped up vcore trying to find long term stability.


Ah right, just re-enabled those and it shows exactly the same volts like by you..


----------



## cadaveca (Feb 14, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Try cpu strap @ 100mhz fixed and its source clock filtering to 60ohm.



There is also "spread spectrum" setting at bottom of that page.


----------



## TheHunter (Feb 14, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> There is also "spread spectrum" setting at bottom of that page.


Yes and this, 

Does Gigaybte have all these options too?


----------



## cadaveca (Feb 14, 2014)

Should, but since they only sent me a few 1150 boards, I have spent little time in their BIOS.


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## Solaris17 (Feb 16, 2014)

Unfortunately they dont have a spread spectrum that I have seen I set it at manual bclk 100mhz and tried 100.3 only to have the system boot and move between 95-96mhz ill keep playing with it and let you know. Im confused since your review didnt seem to indicate this problem. but I am probably just missing something.


----------



## Kursah (Feb 16, 2014)

Hey Sol! 

What are you using to read the BCLK bus speed? If I use an older version of CPU-z 1.63 (one that came with my driver disc from Asus in June 2013 when all this crap was still brand new) I see a bounce between 100-97.9. If I use a newer-ish version...CPU-Z 1.65 it bounces between 100.0 and 105.0 and various ranges in between. If I use AIDA64 CPUID, it's solid 100.0. if I use Speccy it's locked at 100.0, and finally if I use ITU 4.1.0.12 it's 100.0 there as well.

Maybe it's just the software or version you're using? Maybe get a second reading opinion? Update? I'm sure you've covered all grounds there, but I wonder if the software reading that is too sensitive or misleading? I am curious to find out more.


----------



## TheHunter (Feb 16, 2014)

Ok Im having a hard time again, actually ever since I updated to 1707 around a good month ago..

At first I was ok at 4.6ghz & 2400mhz ram, then after using this bios it somehow started acting like I used phase clock adjust @ 9..bsod or random freezes. Raised Vccsa a little (0.020+) and still.. Also digi+ part looks more picky, all at auto seems "best".. for example LLC5 & 130% is not stable anymore..


atm at 4.7ghz & 4.1ghz cache, vccsa 0.010v, in digi+ LLC6, cpu current 130%, VRM optimized. ram 2133mhz and I noticed some stuff with core volts

bios 1.280 - 1.282v
core0 1.280v <> 1.296v (fluctuates, in medium/high load)
core1 1.280v <> 1.296v
core2 1.296v
core3 1.296v
bsod in cpu bound games/benchmarks, unless I use Digi+ all auto and its not completely ok.

bios 1.283v
core0 1.296v
core1 1.280v <>1.296v (fluctuates; core1VID 1.281v)
core2 1.296v
core3 1.296v
^
I used this and  today its unstable again, it bsod in RE5 fixed benchmark or LostPlanet2 fixed benchmark really quick. Both can use up to 110W cpu package power.

bios 1.284v
core0 1.296v
core1 1.296v (pinned; core1VID 1.286v)
core2 1.296v
core3 1.296v

Im at this now and all ok.


bios 1.285v
core0 1.296v
core1 1.296v
core2 1.296v
core3 1.296v <> 1.309v  (core3VID 1.287v)


----------



## TheHunter (Feb 16, 2014)

Sorry for double post, but I think this needs a separate reply 


With 1707 Asus fixed auto ram timings detection @ 2200+, this is why i had such a hard time all of the sudden.. even at 4.6Ghz got a hard freeze by medium load.

Now all at auto expect main timings @ 10-12-12-31-1T & tRFC 214; vccsa 0.030v and in digi+ 120% for current ram.






before at auto, older bios







Also, TDP is probably the cause @ auto it apparently uses cpu TDP.. I've changed that to 200w, which helped by cpu current capability and stability. 
^
LLC6 -LLC7 and all at auto passes too (digi+ section), but ram current needs to be 120% @ 2400mhz & Vccsa +0.030v.
Temps stayed around the same, peak 70-73C core0 @ Cinebench15 or fritz cheesh mark



> If optional, increase the TDP limit of your processor to 200~250 Watts


http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/asus_sabertooth_z87_review,9.html

spotted it here, bellow
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/haswell-overclocking_2.html


*Edit:* now that im monitoring core voltage I noticed another thing, C6&C7 states will lower voltage even at high. perf plan.
at auto (all c-states off) its in sync with cpu coreVID., only windows balanced power plan lowers it to 0.700v.


Hm maybe its them c-states unpredictable.. C7 & C6 will use almost no voltage (0.02v) then sudden jump to 1.296v at full load, sometimes breaks..  Only C1 & C3 act like if @ balanced power plan (lowest 0.705v) and this seems ok.

C6& C7 is ok at lower OC though - up to ~ 1.20v, by 4.6Ghz @ 1.230v its already a bit weird..


----------



## Kursah (Feb 20, 2014)

So after reading the articles from TheHunter above I decided to see what my chip can do with stock voltage.

My chip reads 1.15v stock auto, stock speeds. So I started there, and went straight for 4.3Ghz. That article claims most Haswell K's hit 4.0-4.3 on stock voltage. I'm game.

Sure enough, though reading 1.16v under load, I am stable at 4.3Ghz. This allowed me to dial all my fans back and quiet my rig down. I also was able to enable the extra C-states, and I also enabled all power-saving goodies, this thing idles cool, runs quiet, temps @ load are cooler than at 4.5Ghz. Changing TDP helped here too it seems setting it to 250W does the trick, where I would get that random crash while testing, I've been solid. No dice at 4.4Ghz though. Dropping almost .1 V for 200MHz seems fair to me. Though only needing about +.1V to achieve a 1Ghz OC also seems fair. I'm gonna run at 4.3 for now, and see what else I can fine tune. I have my memory down to 10-11-10-26 @ 1.60v @ 2133. I want to try 2200 next, might up the BCLK and see if I can't eek a few more MHz out of this voltage.

My CPU input V is set at 1.76v, I am using adaptive on the CPU and Auto for the Cache (which runs 1.16v) with an 8x-40x setting. 

I'm debating finding a way to remount my one SSD and 2 3.5" HDD's in my case to remove the removable HDD chassis for improved airflow from the intake fan to eek out a little more cooling airflow from min speed (with BIOS).


----------



## Womper (Feb 21, 2014)

Kursah said:


> So after reading the articles from TheHunter above I decided to see what my chip can do with stock voltage.
> 
> My chip reads 1.15v stock auto, stock speeds. So I started there, and went straight for 4.3Ghz. That article claims most Haswell K's hit 4.0-4.3 on stock voltage. I'm game.
> 
> ...



To control TDP in ASUS BIOS, we're talking about the Short/Long Duration Package Power Limits? You set both to 250W?


----------



## Kursah (Feb 21, 2014)

Well until tonight I had Long on 250 and Short on Auto.

I just set Long to 200 and Short to 250.  Will report back.

EDIT: Locked up sometime during the night. Gonna set Long to 210.


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## TheHunter (Feb 21, 2014)

I think you can keep the 2nd short duration at auto, its x1.25 the first value..  Long 250w, short 250 x 1.25 = ~313w






I had it at 250w at first, then 180w and 168w,


4.7ghz & 2400mhz ram finally stable

cpu 47x @ 1.284v adaptive,
cache 42x @ 1.135v adaptive,

Digi+ all at auto except cpu & ram current 120%
*this Power limit at 180w
VCCSA 0.050v+ for 2400mhz ram OC (now ~0.860v).
SVID - auto (1.79-1.808v)







*Edit: *VCCSA definitely helps by higher ram OC, too low and it can bsod with watchdog or Wmea 0x124. With higher VCCSA 0.050+ it looks np, 0.040+ was a different story.


----------



## Kursah (Feb 22, 2014)

I've been messing with my settings a little further this evening.

Set Short back to AUTO, turned LONG down to 150. I had dropped vcore below...forgot I had changed it. Back up to 1.152v core and cache (auto on cache tho) and dead stable in OCCT. I turned on voltage control setting (I forget what it's called atm) and I have wattage readouts on all my programs, at current settings, running OCCT AVX, my CPU hits 145W. OCCT PSU with Linpack hits about 110W. But so far stable.  Not sure if the wattage readings are worth anything tho. I also put my memory to 2200 and 10-11-10-28 cr1, gained a little on memory tests. Kept stock 1.60v (set to 1.58 in bios).


----------



## TheHunter (Feb 22, 2014)

Yea this new bios did indeed improve stability, but most stuff needs to be auto


----------



## Kursah (Feb 23, 2014)

Ya I'm still fine tuning. I set my SVID to auto, and the voltage to 1.70v, reads 1.728 under load. So far so good. I had to put my memory back to 2133, 2200 just wasn't quite stable nor did it add much extra to necessitate beyond what tighter timings at 2133 could achieve. 

1.157v seems to be the sweet spot for 4.3Ghz though...and I still have the LONG set to 150...may set back to Auto. See if it was a placebo effect on stability. So far though I can't notice any difference between 4.3 and 4.5 in anything I do. System is quieter and cooler. Win-win so far!


----------



## TheHunter (Feb 23, 2014)

I noticed the same thing by 4.6ghz with core voltages (monitoring with hwinfo64),

if it fluctuates like between 1.280 - 1.285v, 1.284v was it (all cores at 1.296v full/high load). Then its always the upper value on all 4 cores.

4.6ghz @ VID 1.226v was the min/max to keep all cores at 1.232v, anything higher would make 1-2 cores at 1.248v..  1.234v pinned all 4 cores to 1.248v so i end up with that. 1.226v wasnt fully stable and i didnt want anything in between  lol


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 23, 2014)

Finally got around to clocking my 4770k, help from Dave, and stopped at 4.4GHZ 1.29 vCore. Been working on dropping voltages down a bit. I can get the cache voltage down to 1.125v, but below that I will crash in P95 after 8k Test 2 which hikes the temperatures into the 90s. Ordered a new pump yesterday as mine is on its way out and doesn't like to stay running 100%. Once the new pump comes Ill do more tweaking.


----------



## TheHunter (Feb 27, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Finally got around to clocking my 4770k, help from Dave, and stopped at 4.4GHZ 1.29 vCore. Been working on dropping voltages down a bit. I can get the cache voltage down to 1.125v, but below that I will crash in P95 after 8k Test 2 which hikes the temperatures into the 90s. Ordered a new pump yesterday as mine is on its way out and doesn't like to stay running 100%. Once the new pump comes Ill do more tweaking.



I saw you're testing 2666mhz ram, what main timings are you using?

did you raise VCCSA a bit for more stability, ie 0.050 or 0.060v+ offset.
And in digi+ Ram current % to 110-120%?


I tested it too today @ 2666mhz CL11-13-13-31-2T, rest auto but it would hard freeze in windows, had vccsa 0.050+ (4.7ghz, cache 4.2ghz) guess it needs more for 2666mhz and or lower cache freq.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 27, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> I saw you're testing 2666mhz ram, what main timings are you using?
> 
> did you raise VCCSA a bit for more stability, ie 0.050 or 0.060v+ offset.
> And in digi+ Ram current % to 110-120%?
> ...



Ill post screenshots of my settings when im back at my apartment a little later today, but i had to increase VCCSA by +0.100 and cache at 1.15v. Cache is at 39 multi still. so far this has been solid but still testing. before it would blue screen windows prior to increase vccsa and cache within a few minutes to an hour of sitting at windows idling.


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## Womper (Feb 27, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Yea this new bios did indeed improve stability, but most stuff needs to be auto



I haven't yet bluescreened on the 1707 bios, although it happened so rarely with 1405 that I'll need more time to be sure. I'm using auto/defaults on pretty much everything- I just set XMP mode up for the DDR 2133, set max core/cache ratios to 47/45, and crank up the adaptive voltage to 1.28v on both of them. I still bump up the tFAW on my memory to 40, and change command rate to 1. I'm extremely happy with this Asus board.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 27, 2014)

I haven't updated my Hero BIOS since about the 3rd or 4th release. Ill have screenshots of my BIOS settings for memory for @TheHunter in a few minutes.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 27, 2014)

Actually here is one of my CPU and Memory VRM settings. To confirm that I do have 120% on my DIMM Current.





@TheHunter try these settings. Granted we have different boards/BIOS, but these could be a good starting point for 2666. NOTE: These timings are directly from @cadaveca

















I wish I had a better chip, I wanted 4.6. I might be able to get 4.5 if temps with the new pump improve enough.

Needing 1.29v for this chip at 4.4 seems ridiculous. Ohhhhh Haswell........


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## TheHunter (Feb 27, 2014)

I managed to get it working @ 4.6GHz and Vccsa 0.055+
But all at auto doesnt make high bandwidth (got 23gb/s read/write/copy), guess they only fixed it for 2400mhz (35.7 -37gb/s).

Ok thanks will try those another time. 

Btw with latest bios you can use all at auto in DIGI+ and lower that cpu current to 120-130% max, I need 120% now @ 4.7Ghz and 1.284v, but only if i leave all VRM, LLC values at auto.


Ps can you post Aida64 memory benchmark



Womper said:


> I haven't yet bluescreened on the 1707 bios, although it happened so rarely with 1405 that I'll need more time to be sure. I'm using auto/defaults on pretty much everything- I just set XMP mode up for the DDR 2133, set max core/cache ratios to 47/45, and crank up the adaptive voltage to 1.28v on both of them. I still bump up the tFAW on my memory to 40, and change command rate to 1. I'm extremely happy with this Asus board.



Yeah no more fiddling around in that digi+, now its in balance and doesnt use max values or use to low., ok except cpu and ram current %.

I used a little lower cache 42x 1.135v, vccsa 0.050+ and ram current 120% fixed the rest @ 2400mhz ram OC. 4.6Ghz needs only 0.030+, but same ram current 120%. Stock 2133mhz is fine at 100%.


I think you can leave tFaw at auto 32, mine defaults to 32 with stock 2133mhz, at 2400mhz its 37.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 27, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> I managed to get it working @ 4.6GHz and Vccsa 0.055+
> But all at auto doesnt make high bandwidth (got 23gb/s read/write/copy), guess they only fixed it for 2400mhz (35.7 -37gb/s).
> 
> Ok thanks will try those another time.
> ...



I can get you that a bit later.

Your chip makes me jelly, I think I am going to get my chip to pop lol, and then do the Intel Warranty thing haha.

You should get reduced latency times in the AIDA memory bench with the timings I posted since they are a bit tighter then your main ones you are using that you mentioned earlier.


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## TheHunter (Feb 27, 2014)

CL10 is no go at 2666mhz, min CL11-13-12-31. Those advanced can be possible 

Its this below - Balistix elite, it can do 2690mhz @ CL11-13-13  1.70v
http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/333...e-high-end-memory-kits-from-crucial-ballistix


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 27, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> CL10 is no go at 2666mhz, min CL11-13-12-31. Those advanced can be possible



try setting VCCSA to 0.100 offset?

Maybe increase VDIMM a bit.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 28, 2014)

AIDA Bench. Less on Read then 2133. But better on everything else. Latency dropped quite a bit.


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## TheHunter (Feb 28, 2014)

Well these are kinda low for 2666mhz, not worth extra vccsa voltage imo.
you should be getting ~40gb/s by all.. Probably also older bios conflict and it sets some extra timings too lose.


Try 2400mhz main 9-11-11-28 -1T or 10-11-11-28-1T, this should give you 36-37gb/s by all,

Latency is also windows power plan depended, on balanced it will be at least 8ns higher compared to high performance.

Command rate @ 1T will lower L2 cache latency from your 4.7 to 3.2 or 2.8ns

I get this atm


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## MxPhenom 216 (Feb 28, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Well these are kinda low for 2666mhz, not worth extra vccsa voltage imo.
> you should be getting ~40gb/s by all.. Probably also older bios conflict and it sets some extra timings too lose.
> 
> 
> ...



Ill talk to Dave. I'd like to get 2666 set up right.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 2, 2014)

Don't think I am 100% stable quite yet. Thought I did update my BIOS, and then changed my settings back. within like 20 minutes of Prime95 I got errors on 2 workers/threads. Going to have to mess with it a bit more.

I do not think BIOS is the issue, as I have not ran Prime95 as long as I did since I have been messing with memory stuff so.

EDIT: This BIOS definitely doesn't like some settings I have or something good lord. BSOD all day. Went back to 0711 because I don't feel like messing with it much anymore. Just want to play games.


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## TheHunter (Mar 8, 2014)

Try 2nd advanced timings all at auto,  auto detection should be correct - at least for 2400mhz.. 

This is what anadtech used by adv timings, I had that for 2400mhz, but like I mentioned it new bios didnt like it and its best at auto. 
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6389/gskill-tridentx-review-2x4gb-at-ddr32666-c111313-165v


Anyway, I just noticed this for that turbo wattage, default auto actually maxes it to the max xD, durations are the same..


180W, rest auto





all auto


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## TheHunter (Mar 12, 2014)

Been playing around again and I saw VCCSA really helps by stability and overall raw performance.


4.7Ghz @ 1.284v, vccsa 0.050v, digital IO 0.005v

Lowest fps 224-228fps

4.7ghz  @ 1.274v, vccsa 0.060v, digital io auto,

Also best score so far, I ran this bench at least 50times.. Got better min fps too  at the same spot lowest fps 232-234fps,

* vccsa 0.050v with cpuv 1.274v can bsod 0x124


In both cases ram at 2400mhz, few times it looked like digital IO helped, but then It kinda choked by raw min fps.


And I noticed something else, saw the same thing by my old Q9450 & this benchmark, if there is a voltage issue cpu or ie now vccsa it will have sporadic fps drops by changing scenes or during a different scene, acts like its underpowered - sometimes even bsod.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 12, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Been playing around again and I saw VCCSA really helps by stability and overall raw performance.
> 
> 
> 4.7Ghz @ 1.284v, vccsa 0.050v, digital IO 0.005v
> ...



Interesting. Seems like in a way, if you increase VCCSA you can lower the vcore a bit at the same time, while maintaining stability.


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## TheHunter (Mar 12, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Interesting. Seems like in a way, if you increase VCCSA you can lower the vcore a bit at the same time, while maintaining stability.


Yes, at first i thought its small steeps, but looks like it needs at least 0.040+ offset to make a difference.

Atm 1.270v is the lowest so far and it still passed all, but for that I had to raise vccsa from 0.055 to 0.065v..
But then again this is with ram OC, stock 2133mhz probably needs a little less. Didnt test that. 



edit: that 1.284v is also ok at 1.280v, I used higher so that all 4 cores were synced to max 1.296v (internal core voltage), now at 1.273v core0 and core1 at 1.280v. 1.270v made all 4 cores at 1.280v.


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## TheHunter (Mar 15, 2014)

New Asus Bios 1802 is out for most models 


Z87-DELUXE BIOS 1802
1. Improve system stability.

2. Support New 4th-Generation Intel Core Processors
3. Before using the new Intel 4th Gen Core processors, we suggest that you first update the BIOS using USB BIOS flashback, or download the BIOS updater for new Intel 4th Gen Core Processors and then update the BIOS using it.



lol would be nice to know whats this improve system stability.


----------



## puma99dk| (Mar 15, 2014)

TheHunter that i doubt Asus would tell otherwise they would have listed it as what they improved.

it could just be they just improved overall system stability...


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## TheHunter (Mar 15, 2014)

Yeah I know 


Its just funny, for example before 1707 I had to manually tweak DIGI+ to get the best stability at higher OC and manually set ram adv. 2nd timings for 2400mhz OC, now with 1707+ I have to leave almost all at auto to get the same stability and proper ram speeds. 
Which is good no more fiddling with it

while in bios 1707 update it said only
-improve system stability 

^^


Anyway I already updated to 1802, acts the same as 1707. :]


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## Kursah (Mar 15, 2014)

Well I might have to see if it's available for the Pro yet. I've wondered what this "improve system stability" item has been for the last couple updates or better myself. In fact hasn't every update since June release stated that? Lol. My system has been super stable, have zero complaints. I'm super happy with my just a tick above stock voltage 4.3Ghz OC. I'll report back later. I have hours and hours of homework and exam studying to do....yay.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 15, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Yeah I know
> 
> 
> Its just funny, for example before 1707 I had to manually tweak DIGI+ to get the best stability at higher OC and manually set ram adv. 2nd timings for 2400mhz OC, now with 1707+ I have to leave almost all at auto to get the same stability and proper ram speeds.
> ...



I talked to Dave about new Bios for Asus boards and he said the changed a lot of the memory and cache stuff. I guess more to the way he likes it.


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## Womper (Apr 2, 2014)

I noticed the new BIOS as well, I'm staying on 1707 though. I still haven't bluescreened on it yet. Before 1707 I usually experienced 1 bsod per month.
I'm glad I went with an Asus, it's great getting frequent BIOS updates.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 2, 2014)

Womper said:


> I noticed the new BIOS as well, I'm staying on 1707 though. I still haven't bluescreened on it yet. Before 1707 I usually experienced 1 bsod per month.
> I'm glad I went with an Asus, it's great getting frequent BIOS updates.



And those BIOS actually make a difference. Dont tend to cause more issues.


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## TheHunter (Apr 2, 2014)

Yea Im also very happy that I chose Asus board.


I noticed this difference 1707 vs 1802

If I enable power saving c-states (default auto - off) it now stays in c3 state most of the time, with 1707 it use to idle in c7s more often (windows balanced power plan). No real difference though, temps stayed the same.
*monitoring with RealTemp 3.70TI


with 1707 I had to use max C3 anyway or it could get unstable, for example @high performance power plan it still used lower C6&C7 states voltage (0.020v sudden jump to 1.275v) and sometimes bsod by quick cpu usage changes..C3 was ok with 0.700 to 1.27v

Now with 1802 @high perf. power plan it disables any C-states, core voltage still hoovers though, but once in light/high usage it maxes and stays maxed.

With C-states at Auto its in sync with coreVID, so @high performance plan its always maxed - kinda like fixed voltage, only balanced power plan lowers it to 0.700v like C3, C6 & C7 drops to 0.00v.

I guess Auto seems optimal since @balanced its already using idle C3 type voltage.. But im not sure atm if it activates C states or not..


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## 20mmrain (Apr 3, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Been playing around again and I saw VCCSA really helps by stability and overall raw performance.
> 
> 
> 4.7Ghz @ 1.284v, vccsa 0.050v, digital IO 0.005v
> ...



Question for you.... I recently got my i7 4770K and I would really like to try and get higher clocks. According to your post I see you  have had some success with increasing your VCCSA voltage in order to lower your Vcore. You said 0.050v is the amount you used. Is that increase in Offset or manual measurements? Also did you notice a decrease or increase in temps?
I am on a custom loop so I am not too worried about higher temps (however lower the better still) 
Last couple of questions: I have heard that Haswell is pretty safe with Voltages 1.35v and below. I have also heard Haswell can comfortably handle a lot of heat with out degradation. Are both of these things I've heard true? Also what are the average clocks people are seeing.

Thanks

*Here are my settings:*
Multiplier: x44
Ring Min Multiplier: x42
Ring Max Multiplier: x42
Vcore Offset: + 0.080 = 1.23v (Full Load)
Ring Voltage "Maunal": 1.17v (1.20v Full Load)
VCCSA: Auto
I/O Analog: Auto
I/O Digital: Auto
DRAM: 1.63v (1.645 Full Load)
C-states Enabled
CPU Spread Spectrum: Disabled

Specs:
i7 4770K
Corsair Dominator Platinum @ 2666Mhz 8GB - 12,13,13,35 2T
GTX 780ti SC


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## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 3, 2014)

increasing your vccsa, digital and analog I/O voltages should help get you higher clocks


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## TheHunter (Apr 3, 2014)

20mmrain said:


> Question for you.... I recently got my i7 4770K and I would really like to try and get higher clocks. According to your post I see you  have had some success with increasing your VCCSA voltage in order to lower your Vcore. You said 0.050v is the amount you used. Is that increase in Offset or manual measurements? Also did you notice a decrease or increase in temps?
> I am on a custom loop so I am not too worried about higher temps (however lower the better still)
> Last couple of questions: I have heard that Haswell is pretty safe with Voltages 1.35v and below. I have also heard Haswell can comfortably handle a lot of heat with out degradation. Are both of these things I've heard true? Also what are the average clocks people are seeing.
> 
> ...



Yes that VCCSA +0.050v is in offset, so total ~ 0.860v or so.. With this value i was able to lower cpuv for ~ 0.09v, from 1.283 to 1.274v or so.
It will heat a little more or around the same as by higher cpuv (kinda mixed tradeoff), but mostly it helped by my ram OC stability >> higher cpuv didnt help much.

I tested Digital IO, apparently it needs to be 50mv higher then analog, but i got more issues with it then at Auto value (bsod watch dog and kernel exepction), so now im keeping this at auto.

DIGI+ also all at auto, expect cpu current 110% for 4.6Ghz and 120% for 4.7Ghz. Ram current 120% (for ram OC).


As for the rest, if you have a good cooling then yeah 1.35v should be fine. I would try to stay below 1.40v though, just for "longelivity" reasons  >>>> you might need to raise SVID - VCCIN a little , stock is ~ 1.80v, maybe try 1.85v if you go above 1.30v+


Also one more thing, try adaptive voltage for cpu voltage and cache voltage. By total turbo voltage set your stable voltage, idk if you need 1.23v for 4.4ghz then put that in. For cache the same total turbo voltage 1.17v.. Ps are you sure you need this high cache voltage?

Sometimes mobo overvolts more then it needs, my cache @ 4.2ghz is ok 1.137v, while mobo at auto sets to 1.22v, overkill.


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## Vego (Apr 4, 2014)

just got my haswell rig going like wednesday

seen this topic and just wanted to share




what else can i do?


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## TheHunter (Apr 5, 2014)

Nice! I tested mine once for 5Ghz, but I stopped ~ 1.33v (almost loaded windows) 


You can OC that ram a bit, Haswell like fast ram, ideal 2133 or 2400mhz  


btw what kind of volts do you need for something like 4.6ghz or 4.7ghz or 4.8ghz?


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## HammerON (Apr 5, 2014)

Vego said:


> just got my haswell rig going like wednesday
> 
> seen this topic and just wanted to share
> 
> ...


It appears that you were one of the more lucky ones in the 4770K lottery



TheHunter said:


> Nice! I tested mine once for 5Ghz, but I stopped ~ 1.33v (almost loaded windows)
> You can OC that ram a bit, Haswell like fast ram, ideal 2133 or 2400mhz
> btw what kind of volts do you need for something like 4.6ghz or 4.7ghz or 4.8ghz?


I am curious as well...


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## Vego (Apr 5, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> btw what kind of volts do you need for something like 4.6ghz or 4.7ghz or 4.8ghz?



4,6 i run at 1,1v, 4,7 @ 1,13v, 4,8 @ 1,2v

also i always try to make my luck about chips -had only 2 retail processors, rest are ES's 

about the ram, i bought platinium because its beautifull  had dominator 2133 earlier but platinum are so expensive it hurts and ram does not have inpact on performance so...


----------



## 20mmrain (Apr 5, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Yes that VCCSA +0.050v is in offset, so total ~ 0.860v or so.. With this value i was able to lower cpuv for ~ 0.09v, from 1.283 to 1.274v or so.
> It will heat a little more or around the same as by higher cpuv (kinda mixed tradeoff), but mostly it helped by my ram OC stability >> higher cpuv didnt help much.
> 
> I tested Digital IO, apparently it needs to be 50mv higher then analog, but i got more issues with it then at Auto value (bsod watch dog and kernel exepction), so now im keeping this at auto.
> ...



*New Current settings*
Multiplier: x44
Ring Min Multiplier: x42
Ring Max Multiplier: x42
Vcore Offset: + 0.065 = 1.216v (Full Load)
Ring Voltage "Maunal": 1.17v (1.20v Full Load)
VCCSA: +0.023 (Full Load 0.88v)
I/O Analog: Auto
I/O Digital: +0.005 (1.024v Full Load)
DRAM: 1.63v (1.645 Full Load)
C-states Enabled
CPU Spread Spectrum: Disabled

So I was able to bring my Vcore down by 0.014v by bumping my VCCSA up by +0.023 (0.88v). Looking around my VCCSA Still seems to be within safe tolerances...what do you guys think?

To answer your questions (TheHunter) about my Cache Voltage, I did do a little stress testing in order to determine my Cache voltage of 1.17v (Manual) 1.20v Full load. But I don't know if I stressed my CPU the correct way in order to determine it.
What type of testing do you suggest performing in order to determine your CPU Cache multiplier and voltage? And what method do you use?

To answer your last question too, I use a custom water cooling loop.... so my Cooling potential is pretty

Please keep the advice coming guys, it appears it is helping

Thanks

*Update* While I don't have a lot of time right now, I will tell you I quickly tried a different approach. I reset my BIOS to complete stock, set my Vcore to 1.2v (manual) at first then 1.25v (Manual) and I was not stable @ 4.6v or 4.5v. I have a feeling I just have an average CPU. I know I can push to 4.5v but it take 1.246 volts to do so.
Well I am not giving up just yet.... but I just wanted to through this added information in.


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## TheHunter (Apr 5, 2014)

^
Mostly by cpu bound games when it stresses whole system.. 

Benchmarks like LostPlanet2 - test2 and Resident Evil5 - variable test; both dx9 mode, no aa 
and in cfg (mydocuments/capcom) set jobthread from 4 to 8.


Bf4 will show it quickly too, mostly with WMEA 0x124 bsod.


Mine @ 4.2ghz 1.137v auto overvolts to ~ 1.162v total.



Vego said:


> 4,6 i run at 1,1v, 4,7 @ 1,13v, 4,8 @ 1,2v
> 
> also i always try to make my luck about chips -had only 2 retail processors, rest are ES's
> 
> about the ram, i bought platinium because its beautifull  had dominator 2133 earlier but platinum are so expensive it hurts and ram does not have inpact on performance so...



Wow very nice, so from 4.8ghz @1.20v it then needs a huge bump to 1.38v for 5ghz?

Although I saw one 5Ghz @ 1.26v, i think he posted in this thread, that looked sick too.



btw, Ram has a little perf impact, i noticed it in cinebench , any 3dmark physics cpu score, cpu bound games when not gpu limited..
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/haswell-ddr3_7.html#sect0


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## Vego (Apr 5, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> btw, Ram has a little perf impact, i noticed it in cinebench , any 3dmark physics cpu score, cpu bound games when not gpu limited..
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/haswell-ddr3_7.html#sect0



to be 100% honest i play only LoL now so i dont need much more fps 
always had a better pc than i needed, meybe exept TERA - there no matter what pc u have the game doesnt allways give you smoth performance, especialy when u like max details at 2560x1440 resolution like i do


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## v12dock (Apr 13, 2014)

Just delided two 4770k's hammer and vice with 100% success. Replaced shit TIM with decent antec Formula 7. I am able to run 1.385v@4.5ghz <85c IntelBurnTest 100% stable so far. AIDA64 stable test 6h avg temp 65c.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 13, 2014)

v12dock said:


> Just delided two 4770k's hammer and vice with 100% success. Replaced shit TIM with decent antec Formula 7. I am able to run 1.385v@4.5ghz <85c IntelBurnTest 100% stable so far. AIDA64 stable test 6h avg temp 65c.



Then the chip will die in a month..


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## v12dock (Apr 13, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Then the chip will die in a month..


Just in time for 4790K


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## petedread (Apr 17, 2014)

v12dock said:


> Just in time for 4790K



I'm sure I have read somewhere that Devils Canyon has been put back to a mid summer launch. Next month we get a 4790s and a 4790 but no K version. And Devils Canyon won't work in Z87 boards. Please some one tell me this is old news and no longer true. I'm dying to get me a Devils Canyon chip.


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## TheHunter (Apr 24, 2014)

petedread said:


> I'm sure I have read somewhere that Devils Canyon has been put back to a mid summer launch. Next month we get a 4790s and a 4790 but no K version. And Devils Canyon won't work in Z87 boards. Please some one tell me this is old news and no longer true. I'm dying to get me a Devils Canyon chip.



4970K is set for June 2nd 2014.. Just saw this @ guru3d 




Z87 is compatible, all big mobo manufacturers released IME Firmware uefi update.
My mobo Asus Z87-deluxe (c1) is ready for it since February, first was MSI, 2nd Asus, then Gigabyte and the rest Asrock, Evga.



I think I'll keep this 4770k @ 4.7ghz 1.274v for now, looks plenty. Atm downclocked to 4.5ghz @ 1.17v and still overkill in everything   Maybe I'll upgrade to Broadwell in 2years


Speaking of Broadwell, it should be compatible the same way, firmware update..

Haswell IME 9.0.2.xxxx
Haswell refresh IME 9.0.30.xxxx
Broadwell IME 9.1.xxxx or maybe 10.x.xxxx (both uefi firmwares are already @ stationdrivers)

what is IME, etc
http://intelmanagementengine.com/intel-technologies/all-about-intel-management-engine-interface.html


Intel Ceo/rep said it himself back in mid September 2013, it will be compatible with existing systems aka Z87 and brand new systems aka Z97,..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KeDtXucTwRI#t=22


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## petedread (Apr 25, 2014)

Thank you TheHunter. It is nice to have that finally cleared up. I can plan to put a 4970k in my Z87 board that I love. If My haswell was as good as yours I would probably keep it too. The only reason I'm looking forward to devils canyon is because 4.5/4.5 takes 1.270v/1.225v (cache). 1.170v for 4.5ghz is a dream chip, probably one in a million.
Thanks for the links.


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## vega22 (Apr 25, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Then the chip will die in a month..




why?


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## cadaveca (Apr 25, 2014)

marsey99 said:


> why?


Been a few reports of dead IMC after de-lid, some from people that I trust 1000000%. Dunno if it's luck of the draw, a cooling issue, or what... but there is a chance that de-lid can make a chip die quickly. I'd say 10%-15%, given the numbers I have heard.


----------



## vega22 (Apr 25, 2014)

i don't doubt your sources dude, it was more the certainty of the post i quoted which i was questioning.

the question that springs to mind with what you're saying is, was it the delid which killed them, or the insane volts people will give them once they see how cold they run?

only i know more than a few who have delid their's too and yet none of them are dead either. i know a few who have get them cold and they killed them almost instantly without a delid.

if i was a betting man i would say luck of the draw more than delidding kills.


----------



## cadaveca (Apr 25, 2014)

marsey99 said:


> i don't doubt your sources dude, it was more the certainty of the post i quoted which i was questioning.
> 
> the question that springs to mind with what you're saying is, was it the delid which killed them, or the insane volts people will give them once they see how cold they run?
> 
> ...


Of course.


----------



## vega22 (Apr 26, 2014)

well. depending on the ape who is delidding 

i can't imagine the ic would work for too long if it was hit with a hammer you know.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 26, 2014)

I think ive seen people run delid chips naked, and then they put cooler on, and too much pressure cracks the die.


----------



## TheHunter (May 6, 2014)

Was playing around with Cinebench15 @ 4.6ghz, cache 4.2ghz, ram 2400mhz oc







best score @ 4.6ghz so far


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (May 6, 2014)

@TheHunter Do you find that increasing cache multi improves performance a bit in benchmarks like these? I have mine at 39 when I have it overclocked (I am going to update to the newest BIOS and start over when I get back to school/my apartment) and was thinking about putting the cache to 42 as well. What kind of cache voltage did you need for 42?


----------



## TheHunter (May 6, 2014)

Yes it scales up to ~ 41x - 43x (tested in Cinebench15) after that I saw no performance gains,. 42x seems like the golden middle 


for 41x - 1.123v
for 42x - 1.137v
for 43x - 1.149v
for 44x - 1.165v




by all there is a 0.002v + offset for some reason. Ie 42x @1.137v can be max 1.158v by full load.


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## MxPhenom 216 (May 6, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Yes it scales up to ~ 41x - 43x (tested in Cinebench15) after that I saw no performance gains,. 42x seems like the golden middle
> 
> 
> for 41x - 1.123v
> ...



Okay, I dont think my chip is nearly as good as yours since i need 1.125v for 39x multi. Ill probably take the cache voltage to like 1.2v to start for 42, and lower till it crashes in my testing.


----------



## cadaveca (May 6, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Yes it scales up to ~ 41x - 43x (tested in Cinebench15) after that I saw no performance gains,. 42x seems like the golden middle
> 
> 
> for 41x - 1.123v
> ...


Shamino suggested that cache @ 3-4 multis below CPU speed is most efficient. So @ 4.6 GHz, 42-43 makes sense. Increase CPU multi, and then the gains should scale upwards again. Haswell cache is nearly 25% faster than IVB, and is where most of the performance gains offered by Haswell are contained. But the question remains on how much it affects temps and power consumption...if lowering cache allows you to increase CPU multi, you should lower cache.


----------



## TheHunter (May 6, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> Shamino suggested that cache @ 3-4 multis below CPU speed is most efficient. So @ 4.6 GHz, 42-43 makes sense. Increase CPU multi, and then the gains should scale upwards again. Haswell cache is nearly 25% faster than IVB, and is where most of the performance gains offered by Haswell are contained. But the question remains on how much it affects temps and power consumption...if lowering cache allows you to increase CPU multi, you should lower cache.



I used the same 4.2ghz by 4.7ghz and it looks to be at its full potential too (same as 41x),

Tried 4.4ghz but it scaled negative in Aida64 memory benchmark, it showed lower bandwidth by L2 & L3, mostly ready and copy. Same by cinebench15 I got 2-4points less. Idk maybe it didnt give it enough volts..

also yeah anything higher heats up more., 4.2ghz vs 4.4ghz can save me ~3-4C on hottest core0.


Speaking of this hottest core, why is core0 always hotter then core3, is it because its so close to System agent controller or poor IHS contact? 

ie Full load core0 68C, core3 59C.


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## cadaveca (May 6, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Speaking of this hottest core, why is core0 always hotter then core3, is it because its so close to System agent controller or poor IHS contact?


 System Agent doesn't produce that much heat, really. It's cache and iVR that produce the most heat.

It could be has IHS TIM, sure. It could just be the iVR, or a hot-spot in cache.  The inclusion of the iVR, and it's lack of a temp sensor, is why I recommend NOT delidding Haswell CPUs.


----------



## LAN_deRf_HA (May 9, 2014)

Has anyone else found these chips hard to cool at the top end? My friend just went to a H110 on his 4770k, runs cooler than his H80i and about the same temp as my 3770K in normal gaming, like say Crysis 3's first level. Then there's level 2 which has a lot of grass, and with a custom config to speed up the grass rendering and increase the amount of grass cpu usage goes to 100%, hitting 100C. Was the same with the H80i, totally different mounting systems. Just seems like the top end of the thermals are nuts on this chip. Reminds me of my 920. No matter what cooler I used nothing could bring it under 90c.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (May 9, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> System Agent doesn't produce that much heat, really. It's cache and iVR that produce the most heat.
> 
> It could be has IHS TIM, sure. It could just be the iVR, or a hot-spot in cache.  The inclusion of the iVR, and it's lack of a temp sensor, is why I recommend NOT delidding Haswell CPUs.



I have been contemplating the idea of using the Ivy Bridge/haswell Naked kit from EK for my chip, but I would really only do it if I had enough funds to buy a back up chip or 2 if things go south either from the delid (hammer vice method) or from running it delidded.



LAN_deRf_HA said:


> Has anyone else found these chips hard to cool at the top end? My friend just went to a H110 on his 4770k, runs cooler than his H80i and about the same temp as my 3770K in normal gaming, like say Crysis 3's first level. Then there's level 2 which has a lot of grass, and with a custom config to speed up the grass rendering and increase the amount of grass cpu usage goes to 100%, hitting 100C. Was the same with the H80i, totally different mounting systems. Just seems like the top end of the thermals are nuts on this chip. Reminds me of my 920. No matter what cooler I used nothing could bring it under 90c.



Yeah they get hot. I found that the temps on my chip dropped a bit after a BIOS update weird enough.

Depends a lot on the settings you use for overclocks too. 

Cadaveca can give you much more knowledgeable info on this stuff. The complexity of Haswell is beyond me.


----------



## cadaveca (May 9, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Cadaveca can give you much more knowledgeable info on this stuff. The complexity of Haswell is beyond me.



Ha! Thanks. You can handle it, but I think school is first in your head and you are focused.

And yeah, they are hard to cool. The iVR makes it so much worse than Ivy, and the fact we can get similar or better performance within the same power envelope is kinda nice.


Working on Haswell OC Guide v 2.0...


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## Kursah (May 9, 2014)

I have found it odd that my settings with the previous BIOS are no longer OCCT PSU stable. It hard locks every time...I'm actually thinking about going back as this update didn't seem to give me anything really. Everything else I do is totally stable...buuuuut it's just kind of an annoyance when it was stable prior. My default voltages in BIOS are different..where they read 1.15 before, both read 1.024 for core and cache.

Looking forward to reading and sharing Dave's Haswell 2.0 OC guide!


----------



## TheHunter (May 14, 2014)

Well latest V1802 has "bugged" c-states again if enabled. Cpuv drops to 0.7v though, but not c-states.

v1707 worked properly and turned off c-states once cpu hit light load and then returned to c3 (if I enabled all c-states instead of auto), but now with v 1802 it doesnt enable any c-states anymore, kinda like c-states @ auto. 1602 kept using c3 even by load and that was a bit unpredictable.

If im at balanced windows plan it starts to use even c7 but then after idk 10sec it turns them all off completely (checked with RealTemp TI).


No big deal though, cpu stays cool @ c-states -auto or enabled, but I have to make sure I use balanced plan ( c-states - auto)  when in idle  or it runs at fixed voltage/max freq. all the time then.


----------



## TheHunter (May 17, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Well latest V1802 has "bugged" c-states again if enabled. Cpuv drops to 0.7v though, but not c-states.
> 
> v1707 worked properly and turned off c-states once cpu hit light load and then returned to c3 (if I enabled all c-states instead of auto), but now with v 1802 it doesnt enable any c-states anymore, kinda like c-states @ auto. 1602 kept using c3 even by load and that was a bit unpredictable.
> 
> ...



sorry false alarm,
It was because of intel RST Dynamic storage accelerator, I've set it to manual and high performance gear, I didnt expect it to affect cpu this way and turn off c-states..
Its ok at auto, default balanced keeps it @ C3, power saver @ C7s, high performance @ C0.


Anyway c-states work as they should with bios 1802, all ok.


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## TheHunter (Jun 1, 2014)

New bios is out for most Z87 mobos.



Z87-DELUXE BIOS 2003
Enhance compatibility for new Anniversary Edition and Devil's Canyon CPU.
Note: Must apply the attached BIOS updater tool first before using the new Intel 4th Gen Core processors.



Guess that earlier bios update tool wasnt 100% compatible,


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## TheHunter (Jun 1, 2014)

Idk is it this new bios or new gpu, but now I have a lot cooler cpu @ same settings. Before I was able to hit those temps only @ winter in cold room 12-15C , atm ~ 20-22C

with new 2003 bios @ 4.7ghz 1.274v, ram 2400mhz, cpu & ram current 120%. It hit max temp in 1st part of the bench, before 3rd.




old bios, same cpu settings 4.7ghz, ram 2400mhz & old gpu, didnt really matter custom 570 or stock cooler 580gtx.





edit: found 570


& cpu microcode got updated, I had 12h, now 19h


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 1, 2014)

@TheHunter

MAXIMUS VI HERO BIOS 1504
Enhance compatibility for new Anniversary Edition and Devil's Canyon CPU.
*Note: Must apply the attached BIOS updater tool first before using the new Intel 4th Gen Core processors.*

What does the bold part mean? What BIOS Updater tool?

I usually put the BIOS file on a usb drive and go into the BIOS and flash from there.


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## Kursah (Jun 1, 2014)

The BIOS updater tool is an In-OS flashing utility. That's all. I don't know why it's all of a sudden required, but it works well...still makes me more nervous than flashing using a USB drive and EZ Flash II. I just flashed mine...going to run some tests and see where the temps end up. I'm not noticing any major differences yet...but we'll see after the next hour.


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## fullinfusion (Jun 1, 2014)

Subd for Dave's haswell v 2 of guide.

Going to try the cach multi on my 4790 when I get back. And wow what a pile of settings in the bios with the z97..  @cadaveca like you said 4.3ghz would be a breeze, yup it is and all under 1.19v


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## fullinfusion (Jun 1, 2014)

Question on pci-e lanes on MHvii and hasswell. 
I encountered a bit of a problem when I put this new rig together the other day. I installed my 2 290's on the mobo and also an essence stx sound card. Things got all weird and slow. When I pulled the sound card out of the bottom black pci-e slot things were normal. Can I use the small x1 PCI slot for my sound card and will it affect the GPUs sense there running x8 x8 so that's 16 lanes. How are the x1 PCI slots wired?


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 1, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> Question on pci-e lanes on MHvii and hasswell.
> I encountered a bit of a problem when I put this new rig together the other day. I installed my 2 290's on the mobo and also an essence stx sound card. Things got all weird and slow. When I pulled the sound card out of the bottom black pci-e slot things were normal. Can I use the small x1 PCI slot for my sound card and will it affect the GPUs sense there running x8 x8 so that's 16 lanes. How are the x1 PCI slots wired?



Did you disable onboard sound?


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## fullinfusion (Jun 2, 2014)

Yes I sure did.


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## emissary42 (Jun 3, 2014)

Still accepting member result entries?

emissary42 | 4670K | 1.050 V | 4900(49x100 MHz) | 1.280 V | 45x | 1.100 V | DDR3-2667 CL10 | Thermalright Archon SB-E | MSI Z87I Gaming AC (Memory @ Stock, more or less^^)


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## Kursah (Jun 4, 2014)

I was losing hope with OC stability with these last two most recent BIOS updates. Then I tried something I hadn't since I first started OC-ing my setup a year ago. I did +0.001 for Adaptive and +.011 for additional voltage. This gives me 1.46v under load. Which so far is stable (so far...).

The kicker? I was running between +.005-+.010 on Adaptive for 1.151-1.156 and it was NOT stable. Both OCCT's Linpack solo and PSU test would crash/lockup/fail within 15-20 minutes. Temps were higher.

Running this lower voltage seems to be very good so far....OCCT PSU test is a very good load...especially with my GTX 770 pumping hot air into my case....between that and my CPU none reach more than the hi-70's at this point. I'm pretty stoked about it. I'll be super excited if I am running lower voltage than ever for the same OC!


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## cadaveca (Jun 4, 2014)

Try pushing cache and CPU at the same voltage values, and running 1:1, if temps are OK. That might allow for slightly less voltage overall on vCPU.


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## Kursah (Jun 4, 2014)

My CPU input voltage is already at 1.70v (reads 1.71.

I have my cache running auto which runs about 1.16v iirc...and 8x min. and 40x max multi. I'll try it at 43 and see what happens.


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## cadaveca (Jun 4, 2014)

push 1.76 on vINPUT. As TheHunter posted, cache multi over 42 doesn't seem to have much effect performance-wise, but pushing the voltage a bit higher might help CPU. My CPU can run 1:1 no problem, has since I got it. But I got a chip back last year that does 40 only, so don't be surprised if it doesn't work.


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## Kursah (Jun 4, 2014)

I'll push vIN to 1.76 IF it'll get me to 1:1...I'm not too worried since it's been so commonly posted (even in your guide iirc) that going over 39X really has no major benefits that would be noticeable...it would sure be cool if I could run 1:1! If I can't attain that, back down to 1.70 I go since it runs stable there.

I don't expect much from it, I have tried before...and I remember 40 being the highest I could go on older BIOSes...I am just stoked that it's stable with less voltage. That makes me super enthused. I may run more tests before I make any more changes though. Do my 6-hour OCCT PSU test...that really seems to weed out the good from bad OC's forme.


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## cadaveca (Jun 4, 2014)

Here's what I'm running currently:


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## Kursah (Jun 4, 2014)

Nice. Well I'm sticking to 4.3 as that's the best OC I can attain with a minimal increase from stock voltage...well I think actually stock voltage now.

You have a sweet chip for sure Dave! I prefer to run a good mix of power saving and OC...I don't need my voltage full on all the time...and Adaptive works great for my needs...but looking at your screens makes me want to see how far I can push!


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## cadaveca (Jun 4, 2014)

I don't run that rig too much, since the board has not been in my possession long. The CPU is retail, and has Tuning Plan already, so if it pops...well...it pops. With gaming being the only use for that rig, power-savings overall isn't much of a concern.


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## 15th Warlock (Jun 4, 2014)

Hey guys, any of you thinking of getting some Devil's Canyon action?

I wonder how they will OC compared to regular Haswell parts...


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## Kursah (Jun 4, 2014)

I already used my protection plan use...so I'm SOL if this one pops. I game a lot, but it's used for school and other minor tasks that lower voltage/consumption makes sense.

I don't plan to replace this chip for a while...unless there's an amazing reason to do so. This has been a very good experience thus far, and I built this a year ago planning on it getting me through college and maybe then some without much more than maybe a GPU upgrade.

I am curious to see how Devil's Canyon performs.


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## cadaveca (Jun 4, 2014)

I will for sure have chips. Better do better than what I got already, let me tell you.


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## 15th Warlock (Jun 4, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> I will for sure have chips. Better do better than what I got already, let me tell you.



At $339, 4970K is kinda tempting, my 4770K tops at 4.7, so I was thinking Devil's Canyon should definitely clock north of 5GHz

Both my 2600K and 3930K can hit 5GHz so it was really disapointing to see Haswell top at a lower clock as even at 4.7GHz it already is faster than my previous processors in most tasks due to the higher IPC.

Dave, I know you're going to test your chips on Z97 boards, but would you please include benchmarks on old Z87 boards now that most manufacturers are releasing Haswell refresh BIOS updates?

If 4790K runs at no more than 5% performance disadvantage on Z87 compared to Z97 I might consider just getting it, if not, then I'll wait for Broadwell...


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## TheHunter (Jun 4, 2014)

^
I think you won't see any difference Z87 mobo or Z97 mobo.
Imo the only time Z97 takes the lead is when you have a program/benchmark that benefits from those new sataExpress /m2 Disks and its speeds.
Something like Asus RealBench..



MxPhenom 216 said:


> @TheHunter
> 
> MAXIMUS VI HERO BIOS 1504
> Enhance compatibility for new Anniversary Edition and Devil's Canyon CPU.
> ...




Its update tool for IMEI firmware update, I used it anyway just in case if it updated anything newer compared to back in February, but its the same. Only cpu microcode got updated. 



@Kursah

So how did you set it in the end?

I played with offset voltage + additional turbo voltage and dunno.. I know I was at 4.7ghz @ 1.255v once, but idk anymore..
Yeah Cache 4.1 or 4.2 Ghz already seems to be the best ratio..

Although I got beaten in Asus Realbench v2 (hwbot) by someone with both cpu & Cache 4.6ghz, me 4.7 & 4.2ghz, he got ~ 230points more.  I noticed this RealBench also like fast SSD, mine is more on average.


Im now at main offset auto and total adaptive 1.1275v, atm testing cpu Cache multi again 4.4ghz and for that I need ~ 1.170v.. I gained very little, mostly 1-2fps here and there and few points in 3dmark physics, 100 points or so.. Cinebench15  extra ~2points. 


My no1 score atm with new gpu and all ^^, OC 1212mhz ram 3245mhz by most

Vantage


2011


Firestrike


RE6




Cinebench15


964cb is best so far @ 4.7Ghz & 2400mhz ram.. I got that on next reboot again with a little tighter ram..


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jun 4, 2014)

Trying ti get my i7-4770 above 4.2GHz is proving to be a pain in the ass


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## TheHunter (Jun 4, 2014)

^
You will have some trouble with non K model. I think 4.2Ghz is pretty much max.


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## Durvelle27 (Jun 4, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> ^
> You will have some trouble with non K model. I think 4.2Ghz is pretty much max.


So far i've manged only 4.173GHz


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## Batmanjl (Jun 5, 2014)

Anyone managed to clock a i7-4770k with a ASrock Z87 extreme 3? if so care to share any info for it?
Anyone have one from batch L319B891 with any luck?


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## cadaveca (Jun 5, 2014)

15th Warlock said:


> Dave, I know you're going to test your chips on Z97 boards, but would you please include benchmarks on old Z87 boards now that most manufacturers are releasing Haswell refresh BIOS updates?




Of course. I kept a couple of Z87 boards to review for just this purpose. I'll have to check that out when doing my 2.0 OC Guide, no matter what.


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## fullinfusion (Jun 5, 2014)

A nice little chip this one is.


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## Womper (Jun 12, 2014)

15th Warlock said:


> Hey guys, any of you thinking of getting some Devil's Canyon action?
> 
> I wonder how they will OC compared to regular Haswell parts...





15th Warlock said:


> At $339, 4970K is kinda tempting, my 4770K tops at 4.7, so I was thinking Devil's Canyon should definitely clock north of 5GHz
> 
> Both my 2600K and 3930K can hit 5GHz so it was really disapointing to see Haswell top at a lower clock as even at 4.7GHz it already is faster than my previous processors in most tasks due to the higher IPC.



The 4790K engineering sample reviews that have popped up over the past few weeks have not shown anything special. They all basically got to 4.7GHz (stable enough for their benchmarks, who knows if gaming stable or 24/7 stable) with fairly high voltages (high 1.2 to low 1.3). But, the new TIM actually kept temps below throttling even at >1.3v on air, if I recall. Per usual, it's hard to tell if they encountered the +AVX voltage and temps. I was hoping that the thermals were the limit, and maybe with some steppings we'd see 5GHz within reach at voltages in the 1.3 range. It looks like 4.7-4.8 is still pretty much the max you can hope for...but at least with the 4790K it so far seems a guarantee.



Kursah said:


> The kicker? I was running between +.005-+.010 on Adaptive for 1.151-1.156 and it was NOT stable. Both OCCT's Linpack solo and PSU test would crash/lockup/fail within 15-20 minutes. Temps were higher.



Interesting find, maybe the story has changed with the newer bios. I encountered another random blue screen from Planetside after many months, and bumped up another .01v. That puts me at 1.295v target adaptive voltage, with 0v offset, on both core and cache. Core is at 4.7GHz, cache is at 4.5GHz. All the other voltages are still on Auto.

I also noticed that peak CPU voltage is now hitting the +AVX number, which is in the 1.4v range with my 1.295v adaptive mode. Not sure if it's Planetside or Wildstar doing it. Peak temperature is still about 60C under my Zalman air cooler, so no worries.


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## TheHunter (Jun 14, 2014)

I noticed the latest bios 2003 overvolts cache a bit more then 1707 or 1802

before @ 42x 1.135v would make max total adaptive 1.16v, now its 1.178v or so..


Also older 1802 use to be ok  @ 4.7ghz 1.275v, now im back to 1.278v or it could hard freeze in something like BF Hardline.
in both cases, 
SVID disabled and manual 1.79v
iVR fault management - disabled
in DIGI+ cpu & ram current 120%, rest auto
cpu system agent 0.055v+ offset for 2400mhz OC ram, otherwise its enough @ ~ 0.020v




But on a side note, Im having some really hard time OC'ing with 125mhz blck, when ever I try ie 125mhz x 38multi (total 4.75ghz) always I see a red light blinking by gpu (@ mobo), the only time I managed to OC via 125mhz is when I first got the mobo and flipped TPU switch to no2.. Anybody know why its doing that? Do I need to OC outside XMP mode?


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 14, 2014)

I have started messing with overclocking again on my chip after updating the BIOS are starting over. So far just inching it up in increments. at 4.2GHZ at 1.25v and cache at x39 1.15v. Left memory at auto so 1333 to get memory instability out of the equation when I am trying to find my max 24/7 CPU clock. Next ill try 4.2 at the same 1.25v. 

I have left everything in the Digi+ power control at auto except for LLC which is at Level 6.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 14, 2014)

When increasing the cache multiplier to be within 3-4x of the CPU core multi, is the cache voltage the only voltage that should be taken into account, or can system agent help in that regard as well? I know that if you increase the system agent a bit, you can also lower vcore a tiny bit as well.



TheHunter said:


> I noticed the latest bios 2003 overvolts cache a bit more then 1707 or 1802
> 
> before @ 42x 1.135v would make max total adaptive 1.16v, now its 1.178v or so..
> 
> ...



I want your chip lol.

For 4.4 my chip seems to want 1.275v in BIOS and 1.296v @ load with 120% VRM current. Before I had current at auto, but failed prime 2 minutes in, with current at 120% its been going for a bit longer. We will see. I dont want to go over 1.3v. I may settle for 4.3GHZ. It can do it all day at 1.25v.

EDIT: And BSOD. now to try 1.285v 4.4GHZ 120% current.

EDIT: 1.312v load @ 4.4GHZ and 130% current seems to be the sweet spot.

@TheHunter

This guide might help you. Its what  I am following and I really like it.

http://www.overclockers.com/3step-guide-to-overclock-intel-haswell

It has a whole elaborate section on the BCLK overclocking.


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## TheHunter (Jun 14, 2014)

Yeah higher cpu current ~ 130% can help at higher voltage & cpu frequency.


Thanks will try blck OC one more time, but idk its like there is a bug when it tries to switch  to soutbirdge pcie controller, could that be it? This is the only thing I can think of atm..


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 14, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Yeah higher cpu current ~ 130% can help at higher voltage & cpu frequency.
> 
> 
> Thanks will try blck OC one more time, but idk its like there is a bug when it tries to switch  to soutbirdge pcie controller, could that be it? This is the only thing I can think of atm..



You might be onto something, but I am not really sure. I will likely not touch the BCLK. What cache multi you running. I read in this thread from Dave that running it within 3-4 of the CPU multi is optimal. I am at 39x right now with 1.15v for the vcache.


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## TheHunter (Jun 14, 2014)

Im using min 39x and max 42x @ 1.135v adaptive, tested 44x @ 1.17v few times but I didnt see any real difference other then more heat, cinebench15 scored 4points more that's about it.



edit: you can try LLC -auto and 120%, I found out its best to leave all at auto in digi+(since last 3 bios releases), except for cpu & ram current %.


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## TheHunter (Jun 15, 2014)

I did try per core- performance OC again and this time it looks promising

core1 48x
core2 48x
core3 48x
core4 47x

I tested 49x core1,2 and 48x core3,4 not so long ago and saw I need 1.323v for full 4.8ghz load (but its a little toasty for H90), so that being said, I set total 1.295v for 3core 48x and so far it passed all. Tested 3dmark Ice and cloud gate benchmarks, both lightly threaded to see if it will fail when running @ 4.8ghz and it passed all, also played some TF2, MKKE and still no issues (both lightly threaded so it was at 4.8ghz 80% of the time).

Btw now it set full 4.7ghz load @ 1.2727v instead of manual 1.2773v (reading in windows), so I guess it s a win win 

Hopefully it sticks this way, Im still using the same settings as above, only cpuv is now at 1.295v.



*EDIT:*

Asus released another bios and now marked V2003 as beta lol


Z87-DELUXE BIOS 2004 and BIOS updater
Improve System performance

*Note: Must apply the attached BIOS updater tool first before using the new Intel 4th Gen Core processors.



EDIT2: 
ok I had to install older IMEI  found @ Asus site  Version  9.5.15.1730  whole package and now its letting me pass the update tool. Before that I had driver only V10.0. 214 and it wasnt ok..


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 15, 2014)

what would you guys say is max vcore voltage for these chips with custom water. My max temp has been about ~80c. I feel I might be able to squeeze 4.5.


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## TheHunter (Jun 15, 2014)

depends where you get those 80C,
I try to stay ~ 75C max in cpu stress testing apps., ok something like prime95 or IBT, linx, Aida64 will heat more for sure.
Asus Realbench or x264hd bench or some really cpu/ram demanding game usually shows all instabilities

You can try this per core OC, set first 3 core multi to 45 and last to 44x, this way you will have 4.5ghz by light load and 4.4 full load. But now you will have to raise cpuv a bit, I would say ~1/2 or 1/3 of what you need for 4.5ghz. Mine goes in 0.05v steeps (4.6 1.23 > 4.7 1.278 > 4.8 1.325v), so ~0.025v should be enough.


Speaking of this new bios, IME FW is still the same 9.0.30.1482 as in Feb 2014, but now after I updated to 2004 i cant use this per core OC anymore, well not at the same settings and core3 48, core4 47x and same 1.295v..

I made sure yesterday that it ran fine by light  load, but today after I updated to 2004 it kept crashing and wmea bsod'ing in Re5 bench..  I reverted to old 2003 and now its also not stable anymore, needs more cpuv then usual , kinda like in old days.. although no Im back to 2004 again lol D:

EDIT: it was cpu power current fault, 120% wasnt enough anymore now at 130% and Im able to run 4.7ghz @ 1.275v.


Cadaveca do you know what might have changed in 2004 with this "Improve System Performance"?


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 15, 2014)

I was getting the ~80c during the 2nd test in Prime95, after then it drops and sits at around 65c.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 15, 2014)

Ill probably leave it at 4.4GHZ.

I want to dial in memory at 2400. What timings are you using for your memory at 2400?

EDIT: I can run games and anything all day right now at 4.4ghz @ 1.312v. But this is with memory at auto so 1333mhz, to isolate any instability from memory. So if I do get any instability I know its CPU and not memory/IMC.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 16, 2014)

Yeah use 4.4ghz then, its still ok 


 Enable xmp 2133mhz and see how it goes, if it fails try to raise vccsa (cpu system agent) a little, 0.010 or up to 0.030v, 

if you want to OC ram then you need to use DIGI+ ram current power @ 120%, 
by in ram timings try CL10-12-12-31-1T & tRFC 214, keep rest at auto @ 1.60-1.65v << this ram OC will need more vccsa, 0.040 - 0.055v+ offset is a good start.

I need 0.050v @ 4.7 & 2400mhz, at stock 2133mhz 0.015v+ if i want lower cpuv and stable fps without any fps drops - ResidentEvil5 (jobthread=8)- fixed benchmark by ~ 45-55%.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 16, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I want to dial in memory at 2400. What timings are you using for your memory at 2400?




Check my BIOS screenshots a page or two back for timings. Those were done with my Dominator Platinums.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 16, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> Check my BIOS screenshots a page or two back for timings. Those were done with my Dominator Platinums.




Damn those are some tight timings for 2400.

I see for 2400, you left System agent, and the i/o's at auto. Is that best to do unless you have instability? Increase them a bit. I remember reading, (I think you mentioned it) to keep system agent just below the i/o voltage values.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 16, 2014)

Went with VCCSA at +0.045 and so far so good. Havent done any real test, but so far windows is functioning fine.






Okay, ran Prime95 blend and VCCSA increased the temps a shit ton. temps maxed at 100c, and when I saw that, I stopped the test.

I think my chip has horrible IHS contact. I don't think it should be getting that hot with my water cooling.

Dropped it down to XMP Profile 2133. But dropped the Command Rate timing from 2 to 1.

EDIT: Still sends the temperatures sky rocketting.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 16, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Damn those are some tight timings for 2400.
> 
> I see for 2400, you left System agent, and the i/o's at auto. Is that best to do unless you have instability? Increase them a bit. I remember reading, (I think you mentioned it) to keep system agent just below the i/o voltage values.



Yeah, on this board, that's the stock values, so no need to adjust.

And those timings aren't that tight, that's the normal timings for these sticks at 2400. Yours should do it fine too.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 16, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> Yeah, on this board, that's the stock values, so no need to adjust.
> 
> And those timings aren't that tight, that's the normal timings for these sticks at 2400. Yours should do it fine too.



Seems, for my chip atleast, memory overclock has a huge impact on the CPU temps.

I had to drop my cpu to 4.2 @ 1.25v to be able to do my memories stock 2133 to keep temps below 90c. Do 4.4GHZ at 1.312v and memory at 2400  VCCSA +0.045 and temps go to 100c and throttle.

Temps never got higher then 85c at 4.4GHZ 1.312v with memory at auto (1333)


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## cadaveca (Jun 16, 2014)

vINPUT is likely on AUTO, methinks. try setting 1.760 like I have at first, with just the CPU OC, if CPU OC then fails, then increase. Likewise, when you find stable, maybe try increase a bit, then decrease vCPU


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 16, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> vINPUT is likely on AUTO, methinks. try setting 1.760 like I have at first, with just the CPU OC, if CPU OC then fails, then increase. Likewise, when you find stable, maybe try increase a bit, then decrease vCPU


 
vinput is on auto yes. Can that voltage option push temps pretty good?

I'll play around with it a bit more next week. I need to get ready for class in the morning.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 16, 2014)

Well dont test Prime95 then, that will heat no matter what.

Also yea I heard higher ram can heat cpu more, that ram current 120% will also heat extra 3-5C vs 100%, but I found out I need at least 110% to be "stable" at 2400mhz or it can hard freeze or reset pc. 

Cpu current 130% will heat more too vs 120% (3-5C), but sometimes it just needs 130%...


Vccsa also a little but not much, 2-3C maybe.


I set SVID to disabled and then manually entered in 1.79V., 1.76v was to little for 4.7ghz @ 1.27xV, also iVR fault management to disabled.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 16, 2014)

Do you guys mess with both inputs or just the initial? I have Initial and Eventual options.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 16, 2014)

You have to enable manual mode, then just set the main and leave initial and eventual alone.

(Like The hunter said he did).


----------



## prescient (Jun 16, 2014)

cpu   1.008
cpu cash  1.16

reply  to this


http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/my-new-rig.202088/

i dont have flash usb


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 16, 2014)

Should be good then. Aim for 4600 or 4700 @ 1.25V or so. Pay attention to DIO and AIO voltages too though. Also be sure that CMOS is reset when checking those voltages, since adjusting other settings in BIOS can adjust them as well.


----------



## prescient (Jun 16, 2014)

ohh great news  .  when i install the cooler   i will come here . and step by step . if i can do 5  ghz  with 1.3  or   would be ok


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 16, 2014)

prescient said:


> ohh great news  .  when i install the cooler   i will come here . and step by step . if i can do 5  ghz  with 1.3  or   would be ok


4700 seems to be the breaking point. Many chips need boost for that. Every single multi above that possible on air is truly a blessing.

Anyway, mine is 1.040, gets 4600 no problem, even with memory clocked to 2666+. But voltages, vCPU, vCCSA, vDIO, vAIO, vINPUT need to be low too, sometimes this voltage can just be a tease! 

5 GHz on air is a pretty lofty goal.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 16, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> You have to enable manual mode, then just set the main and leave initial and eventual alone.
> 
> (Like The hunter said he did).



Okay, so I disabled it and set it to 1.75v and disabled the iVR Fault management, and temps dropped 5-6 degrees on average during Test 2 of Prime95.



cadaveca said:


> 4700 seems to be the breaking point. Many chips need boost for that. Every single multi above that possible on air is truly a blessing.
> 
> Anyway, mine is 1.040, gets 4600 no problem, even with memory clocked to 2666+. But voltages, vCPU, vCCSA, vDIO, vAIO, vINPUT need to be low too, sometimes this voltage can just be a tease!
> 
> 5 GHz on air is a pretty lofty goal.



Has 5GHZ on air even been done with Haswell yet?

@TheHunter 

I am going to try that Asus ROG Realbench. I have been reading up on it and sounds like a cool application. Drills the system as if it would in real life. I also really like Using Battlefield 3/4 multiplayer for a round or 2 to determine stability. 

Also wPrime as well.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 16, 2014)

Ran RealBench in a infinite loop for 30 minutes and max temp I hit was 69c at 4.4GHZ 1.312v and memory at 2400 1.65v. No issues. Then ran 3DMark Skydiver and Firestrike with no issues.

EDIT: Just crashed after about 20 minutes of BF4. Wasn't of BSOD, just the app crash. Not entirely sure what caused it.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 17, 2014)

Okay, so BF4 crashed, and instead of just crashing to desktop. System rebooted. No bugcheck in event viewer, nothing in there to give more information. Thinking i might need to tweak the VCCSA or vinput a bit more. Maybe vDIO and vAIO?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2014)

random crash/reboot most likely memory. try 1.7V there. Also, try boost v Input to 1.8 or so.

Myself, I'd just keep 2133. Make note of stock voltage values on all areas, then set each manually. Increase only what you adjust.

VCCSA should needs no or only slight boost from stock.


BTW, found two more kits of your memory, for less than what you paid for yours. Still want another one?


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 17, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> random crash/reboot most likely memory. try 1.7V there. Also, try boost v Input to 1.8 or so.
> 
> Myself, I'd just keep 2133. Make note of stock voltage values on all areas, then set each manually. Increase only what you adjust.
> 
> ...




I really want another one, but I am really broke man!

I want to have my CPU and Memory overclocked. I will stop at 2400 on the memory, 2666 like we tried before wasn't worth it IMO, though with what I know now, I think I could get it stable.

I have been reading a lot on the vinput. I set it to 1.79v for now, and am about to try BF4 again and see if I can finish a match. It was at 1.75v before. Which from one I am reading, higher vcore, means itll likely need higher vinput.

EDIT: So far so good with vinput at 1.79v. Played about 2 full rounds of BF4 will no crashes/reboots. Max temp in game 67c.

Might end up trying 4.5 4.6ghz at this point.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Might end up trying 4.5 4.6ghz at this point.



Yeah, it's just a matter of managing the temps. Most chips on most cooling won't be able to handle 1.9V. + CPU clock, + ram clock + cache clock. You have to choose which ones are best for your workload, and adjust accordingly. That's why we have all these different voltages in the first place, and by managing it inside the chip, they can keep it very concise...just the iVR takes the heat hit. Intel showed demos of this tech YEARS ago now, with many iVR modules, like 4 I think, outside the chip.


So, anyway, I think this is in part why they have changed the PCB for Deveil's Canyon, and adjusted capacitors on the package. If done right, then vINPUT can be less, and heat can be less. You just need to find out how you chip scales in that relationship, since you want to keep vINPUT as low as possible for temperature control.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 17, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> Yeah, it's just a matter of managing the temps. Most chips on most cooling won't be able to handle 1.9V. + CPU clock, + ram clock + cache clock. You have to choose which ones are best for your workload, and adjust accordingly. That's why we have all these different voltages in the first place, and by managing it inside the chip, they can keep it very concise...just the iVR takes the heat hit. Intel showed demos of this tech YEARS ago now, with many iVR modules, like 4 I think, outside the chip.
> 
> 
> So, anyway, I think this is in part why they have changed the PCB for Deveil's Canyon, and adjusted capacitors on the package. If done right, then vINPUT can be less, and heat can be less. You just need to find out how you chip scales in that relationship, since you want to keep vINPUT as low as possible for temperature control.



yeah. Ive been reading even more on the input voltage stuff, and have learned a lot from the Haswell OC Guide at OCN. 

As you know my board has the Initial Input Voltage, and Eventual Input Voltage option. The guide at OCN mentioned that changing the Initial Input Voltage on Asus boards hasn't yielded any difference, and said to try and tweak the Eventual Input Voltage, but I changed the Initial Input Voltage option, and it seemed to have fixed my crashes/restarts in BF4. 

Maybe as a test, ill set Initial back to auto, and change the Eventual to what I have my Initial set too and see what it does. Might be interesting......


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Might be interesting......




OR not.

Also, keep in mind the OCN guide is just a rehash of the ASUS' guide (obviously, since BIOS options apply to your ASUS board).


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 17, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> OR not.
> 
> Also, keep in mind the OCN guide is just a rehash of the ASUS' guide (obviously, since BIOS options apply to your ASUS board).



Yeah, I have been reading the Asus ROG guide as well.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 17, 2014)

btw MXPhenom 216


I think its also Internal PLL overvoltage that can heat extra, default auto..

I was @ 130% cpu vrm current and I kept getting some higher temps. in something like LP2 or RE5 benchmarks, both not really temp. demanding, ok LP2 is a bit but still.. I had that disabled before but now with 2004 i forgot about it and left it at auto and now I was getting max 77C on core0 vs 71C after I disabled it (LP2 - test B, fixed bench, with jobthread=8).


And yeah I saw the same thing with SVID, 1.75v is a bit too low and can cause such reboots in BF3/4, sometimes not enough cpu current too, but 130% is enough.. Also too low VCCSA or too low cpu cache or ram current % that's if you OC ram..

*VCCSA 0.050 - 0.055v is more then enough - total 0.856-0.864v (stock 0.808 -0.816v), i keep IO analog an digital both at auto, I tried to test those once but it made everything more unstable, only Vccsa made a difference.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 18, 2014)

On my way to having 4.5GHZ stable. Was able to run through about an hour of looping x264 stress test.

45x multi 1.34v (set in BIOS 1.35v LOAD) Initial Input Voltage 1.80, Eventual Input voltage 1.85.

I will test in BF4 later, as I am anticipating that I might need to bump the Eventual vinput a bit more.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 18, 2014)

Kursah said:


> I was losing hope with OC stability with these last two most recent BIOS updates. Then I tried something I hadn't since I first started OC-ing my setup a year ago. I did +0.001 for Adaptive and +.011 for additional voltage. This gives me 1.46v under load. Which so far is stable (so far...).
> 
> The kicker? I was running between +.005-+.010 on Adaptive for 1.151-1.156 and it was NOT stable. Both OCCT's Linpack solo and PSU test would crash/lockup/fail within 15-20 minutes. Temps were higher.
> 
> Running this lower voltage seems to be very good so far....OCCT PSU test is a very good load...especially with my GTX 770 pumping hot air into my case....between that and my CPU none reach more than the hi-70's at this point. I'm pretty stoked about it. I'll be super excited if I am running lower voltage than ever for the same OC!




I was testing this offset (additional voltage) a moment ago and then remembered your post.

It passed both mini stress tests (RE5 - variable test, lower reso -cpu bound & LP2 - variable, same settings) and 3dmark physics 3-4 times, 1-2 days earlier it would fail in RE5- 2nd or 3rd part really quick, if I had additional - auto and turbo 1.275v.


I remember I use to pass 4.7ghz @ 1.258v, I posted it here once, but later I found out its not really it.. Although I didnt use more then 0.010 additional voltage.

Now, I set additional 0.018v and turbo adaptive 1.250v making total ~1.268v, coreV max 1.280v.
And it passed all mentioned above , but in idle its now @ 0.737v instead of 0.712v


Funny stuff, I think this offset additional voltage acts as a buffer for each turbo multi & its voltage and so if a chip is programmed to run idk 4.6ghz between 1.20 -1.24v (upper values - stabler) you raise this gap a little so now you can use less main.
But I get higher temps now, *see bellow use to get max 62-65C on core0 in RE5, 3dmark physics temps are around the same - usually near70C threshold..






I also have cpu current 130% vs 120% its just that 4-5C gap, will test that again or maybe go for even lower cpuv , but I think 1.25v is kinda the limit for sure


----------



## prescient (Jun 18, 2014)

should i disable  paging files  with 16 gb ram ?


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## cadaveca (Jun 18, 2014)

Nope. But I'd set to 4096 MB min-max.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 18, 2014)

Feeling pretty stable. My previos settings for 4.5 weren't quite right. I got worst score in Firestrike than at 4.4. So I jumped the vcore to 1.35v and Eventual Input Voltage to 1.91 and score jump up higher then 4.4GHZ. Then dropped vcore to 1.34 and left Eventual vinput at 1.91 and got even a few more points. So I think my final settings for 4.5ghz are 1.34v vcore and 1.80v Initial Input voltage, and 1.91v for Eventual Input voltage. Everything else same as before.


----------



## prescient (Jun 19, 2014)

whoooo

with my old system  3d mark

P3616

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/286898;jsessionid=144E20EBF71F99D02ADE7AEAB53B2DA4?show_ads=true&page=%2F3dm11%2F286898%3Fkey%3DVNfkSSmkkdjmS8dhCtFCcbsBW4rb4X

the new system 

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/8429601


now  let me know one thing .  we have the same system  here  if that in your sig is 3d mark 11 score
and you are so far ocied  how come my system scores  12300? yours score 10800
is it the 16 gb ram ?


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 19, 2014)

prescient said:


> whoooo
> 
> with my old system  3d mark
> 
> ...


 
That score isn't from 3DMark 11. It is 3DMark "13" Firestrike bench.


----------



## prescient (Jun 19, 2014)

sure i should have figured out the evga  is surly stronger .  and your oc  physics  score is way higher 
i will get that much increase if i oced my cpu ? i dont think od want to stretch my gpu  so far at this point .


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 19, 2014)

prescient said:


> sure i should have figured out the evga  is surly stronger .  and your oc  physics  score is way higher
> i will get that much increase if i oced my cpu ? i dont think od want to stretch my gpu  so far at this point .



Well I have a launch 780 (Launch products always tend to be the thing to get if you want to overclock). Bought it the morning the 780s launched after reading the review on TPU. It was probably the most expensive impulse buy I have ever done, but I don't regret it at all. And yes your Physics socre will be right around mine if you overclock to 4.5GHZ.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 19, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> You have to enable manual mode, then just set the main and leave initial and eventual alone.
> 
> (Like The hunter said he did).


 
Also, my board doesn't have a main input voltage option. Its either only Initial or Eventual. Eventual seems to be helping more.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 19, 2014)

Yeah, HERO is a bit limited in the voltage OC options department


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 19, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> Yeah, HERO is a bit limited in the voltage OC options department



How much did you say that memory kit was that you said you found, that was the same as mine?


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 19, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> Yeah, HERO is a bit limited in the voltage OC options department



Also, I don't really see how that's limitting. If a motherboard just has one option for Input voltage I feel like that would be limitting. Where as mine has 2. One for system POST and the other for once the OS loads. 

I am really tempted to try for 4.6, but I don't really want to go much higher then 1.34v.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 19, 2014)

Yeah, but you don't understand what you're doing other than changing something that lets you OC more, so you don't understand my comment. I was referring to offering OFFSETs rather than fully manual options, not the input voltage. 

Compare that BIOS to the GENE, IMPACT, FORMULA or EXTREME, and you'd understand better.


----------



## MetalRacer (Jun 20, 2014)

I guess I should join the club.


----------



## fullinfusion (Jun 20, 2014)

MetalRacer said:


> I guess I should join the club.


Using your phase cooler?


----------



## MetalRacer (Jun 20, 2014)

That was on Ln2. I may try the phase this weekend.


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## HammerON (Jun 20, 2014)

Nice Metal  
Long time no see


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## TheHunter (Jun 21, 2014)

Right, additional base voltage definitely did the trick. Although I used a bit different settings in the end.

cpu offset voltage +0.020v
turbo aditional 1.249v
total adaptive 1.269v, or real 1.268v in windows.

This makes max max core voltage 1.280v on all 4 cores, not bad.
@ 1.278- 1.284v it makes core voltage 1.294v


I was also able to lower cpu current back to 120%.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jun 21, 2014)

I think I got a junk chip, or my mobo sucks. It takes 1.3v for me to get 4.4Ghz stable on my 4770k...


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 21, 2014)

Lopez0101 said:


> I think I got a junk chip, or my mobo sucks. It takes 1.3v for me to get 4.4Ghz stable on my 4770k...



That is how my chip is. Then for 4.5 I have it at 1.34v.

I want to try for 4.6, but I don't want to go higher then 1.35v, as I think Haswell degrades faster after 1.35v.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 21, 2014)

I saw 2-3 German folks already got their hands on 4790K and most do 4.5ghz @ 1.2v or bellow, 1-2 did 1.12v and 1.16v @ 4.5ghz.

#last 2-3 pages
http://www.hardwareluxx.de/communit...ckel-1150-haswell-laberthread-962401-483.html


But overall 4.7 - 4.8ghz (+1.3V) still seems to be the limit. Guess Intel didnt want mainstream cpus owning Enthusiasts and capped them lower or something


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jun 22, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> I saw 2-3 German folks already got their hands on 4790K and most do 4.5ghz @ 1.2v or bellow, 1-2 did 1.12v and 1.16v @ 4.5ghz.
> 
> #last 2-3 pages
> http://www.hardwareluxx.de/communit...ckel-1150-haswell-laberthread-962401-483.html
> ...



Still pretty good volts though. Temps would be better id assume as well.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jun 22, 2014)

Good for them, I suppose. Now, if only they'd done this in the first place.

Watched a Tech Tips vid on 4770k OC'ing and he mentioned that populating all the dims can effect OC ability. I'd rather have my RAM than gain another 100mhz or so.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 22, 2014)

Lopez0101 said:


> Good for them, I suppose. Now, if only they'd done this in the first place.
> 
> Watched a Tech Tips vid on 4770k OC'ing and he mentioned that populating all the dims can effect OC ability. I'd rather have my RAM than gain another 100mhz or so.


Didn't have any impact at all for me, really, running 4x4 GB @ 2666 MHz.


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 22, 2014)

Lopez0101 said:


> Good for them, I suppose. Now, if only they'd done this in the first place.
> 
> Watched a Tech Tips vid on 4770k OC'ing and he mentioned that populating all the dims can effect OC ability. I'd rather have my RAM than gain another 100mhz or so.


nah I have 4x4 gb kit and works flawless , I even Oc'ed them from 2133 to 2400mhz, all this @ 4.7ghz and cache 4.2ghz.
But for that I had to a little higher ram current % and higher vccsa offset voltage.


edit: like Dave said



MxPhenom 216 said:


> Still pretty good volts though. Temps would be better id assume as well.



yes 7C cooler on avg, that 4.7ghz @ 1.36v (H110) acts as mine now at 1.27v or even 4.6ghz @ 1.232v (H90 custom pp).

Although this H90 cooler can't handle anything more then 1.3v+, goes ~80C+ in something like x264fhd or Cinebench15 or Fritzchessmark really quick.


Worst case scenario now @ LP2 - fixed cpu test (jobthread=8), after its a bit warmer inside the case, still ok imo 
well this LP2 heats up like Cinebench15. Never seen it this high in games, usually max 62-65C, avg 45-55C.


nvm that weird 103mhz reading, guess its a pcie glitch
Im using fixed 6Ohm dbl for 100mhz strap which makes fixed 100.029mhz pcie clock.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jun 22, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> Didn't have any impact at all for me, really, running 4x4 GB @ 2666 MHz.



Hmm, suppose that just further points to a shit 4770, lol. Stick with my 4.4 @ 1.295v. =[

Guess I'll try eeking a couple hundred Mhz out of the ring frequency now.


----------



## PolRoger (Jun 26, 2014)

Picked this up yesterday at my local Micro Center...


----------



## fullinfusion (Jun 27, 2014)

I picked up a 4770K yesterday and notice core temp stops reading when I put the cpu under full load like Cinibench.

Whats a good temp reader to use with these chips?


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 27, 2014)

I use AIDA64, myself. IT does lose reporting under some loads, but when this happens, most often all tools have paused.


----------



## PolRoger (Jun 27, 2014)

I use RealTemp, CoreTemp , AIDA64 and sometimes HWmonitor.

I haven't noticed CoreTemp doing that for me...

I'm currently "crunching" Rosetta@home  with CoreTemp 1.0 RC6  and it seems to be working and reading 100% load temps?


----------



## v12dock (Jul 2, 2014)

4.2Ghz @ 1.225v @ 51c 100%  load
I changed the paste between the die and heatspreader to coollaboratory liquid pro and I am using prolimatech pk-3 between the heatspreader and cold plate(h100) I must say I am satisfied


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 2, 2014)

v12dock said:


> 4.2Ghz @ 1.225v @ 51c 100%  load
> I changed the paste between the die and heatspreader to coollaboratory liquid pro and I am using prolimatech pk-3 between the heatspreader and cold plate(h100) I must say I am satisfied


 
I'd love to just run my chip naked with my EK block and their Ivy/Haswell naked mounting kit.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 2, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I'd love to just run my chip naked with my EK block and their Ivy/Haswell naked mounting kit.


DO IT. OR get the Z97 MSI board that comes with the bracket...

although I suppose you'll still need the mount kit, eh? And will have to remove the socket bracket.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 2, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> DO IT. OR get the Z97 MSI board that comes with the bracket...
> 
> although I suppose you'll still need the mount kit, eh? And will have to remove the socket bracket.



I want to have a back up CPU though, encase things go really wrong.

I have to pretty much take the whole metal bracket off my current stock and just set the CPU into it. And let the mounting of the block be the pressure it needs to make good contact with the pins.

I definitely want to do it, but im not sure it would allow me to clock more. Im already pushing 1.34v and 1.36v at load through the chip for 4.5 and temps are never higher 70c in what I use to stress test and what not.


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 2, 2014)

Stopped by Micro Center this afternoon to check on available 4790K batches and I came home with this...


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 2, 2014)

I don't think Intel is fully prepared for how many of these they are going to sell. OR maybe they do, and that's why they are priced so cheap. $80 is perfect. Many "AAA" games cost that, and many gamers spend that every two weeks. As a throw-away CPU that lets OC return to entry markets, I am really hoping that these pentiums are the start of pulling this current gen of console gamers over to PCs, and then as enthusiasts, since I don't think we'll see another new XBOX, ever. Silicon limits and power budgets are just too close.


Restricting OC to high-priced chips only was the stupidest thing this industry did.


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 2, 2014)

Stock:
1.056 VID
1.066 Cache

Set Vcore to 1.2v, Dram to 1600C9 @1.5v, Everthing else on auto (cache defaults to 32x)

And the result for my sample was 41x max boot... Uploaded a brief AIDA stress run.

I was kind of hoping for 4.4/4.5...


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 3, 2014)

push the volts higher. 4.5 might be a bit high, 4.4 seems realistic with a bit more juice.


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 3, 2014)

Scaling...

42x with ~1.220v
43x with ~1.280v

MSI Marketing says I can expect 4.7!   

or maybe my sample is below average... 

"They can automatically overclock the CPU to 4.3GHz from its original 3.2GHz through MSI's exclusive technology OC Genie 4, increasing its performance by 34%, so even a beginner will be able to overclock a computer stably to high performance through a single action without any complicated skills and configurations.



 



The CPU can even be easily overclocked to 4.7 GHz if a high-end air-cooling fan is used, boosting its performance as high as 45%."

Source: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...reaches-6861-7-mhz-on-msi-motherboard.202711/


----------



## Vario (Jul 3, 2014)

Return it to microcenter and get another!


----------



## PolRoger (Jul 3, 2014)

A quick 30min Prime blend with custom memory usage.

This chip will likely need ~1.325v(+) for 44x...

Edit: Tested 44x at 1.325v but it wasn't stable and I had to bump vcore up to 1.345v in order to run a brief Prime large fft.


----------



## D007 (Jul 3, 2014)

I made sure to disable all the spread spectrum, C1E type stuff. Intel speed step off.
The I set my ratio to 100:100
Set my ram to 2200 "or maybe it auto set it"
Set the cpu voltage to 1.35
I am rock steady at 4.6 ghz. 4770k.
Most things I left on auto.


----------



## mstenholm (Jul 4, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> I saw 2-3 German folks already got their hands on 4790K and most do 4.5ghz @ 1.2v or bellow, 1-2 did 1.12v and 1.16v @ 4.5ghz.
> 
> #last 2-3 pages
> http://www.hardwareluxx.de/communit...ckel-1150-haswell-laberthread-962401-483.html
> ...


I got one as well. So far I only did a 5-way ASUS optimization on my Maximus Hero and that gave me 4.7 @ 1.302 V with a NH-D15. More later.


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 4, 2014)

Oh Devils Canyon where are you 

@D007 thanks for the post, I've been struggling with this cpu and forgot the C1E shit to turn off.
I disabled it on my board and went to x45 multi and been running AIDA stress for over 20 min now and shes perking right along


----------



## D007 (Jul 4, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> Oh Devils Canyon where are you
> 
> @D007 thanks for the post, I've been struggling with this cpu and forgot the C1E shit to turn off.
> I disabled it on my board and went to x45 multi and been running AIDA stress for over 20 min now and shes perking right along



I am very glad to help. 
PS, also looking forward to Devils Canyon.


----------



## Jetster (Jul 4, 2014)

Z97X 4790K
How come my spread spectrum is greyed out? I cant seam to set the base clock to manual


----------



## Kursah (Jul 6, 2014)

Asus Z87 users, I see I missed the 2005 bios train by a couple of weeks... I am on 2003 beta, planning to jump to 2005. This is one of the rare times I have read it "improves performance" versus "improves stability" or "adds support for x" in a while. Any thoughts to reflect on? Anything noticeable? I don't expect much, but plan to get up-to-date anyways.


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 6, 2014)

Well I kinda regret going from 2003 to 2004, use to be fine ~ 1.27v (all 4 coreV load 1.280v), now Im back to square0 1.284v (all 4 coreV load 1.296v) prior 1707 and earlier bioses.


Also I need internal PLL - auto to pass my x264 encoding using openCL, so far this heats up almost like prime,.. And this Internal PLL adds few 4-5C as well.. 
Max @ 4.7ghz was ~ 82-84C in summer , I was at adaptive voltage and that made the rest, saw 1.36v jumps lol


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 7, 2014)

Today on my birthday and i finally got some time and a little mood to change my i5-4670k out with my new Intel Pentium G3258 but my MSI Z87I Gaming AC board ain't really happy, i can't do reboots from bios or windows i just get black screen on boot but if i do cold boot nuth is wrong 






this little "beast" was really easy getting to 4ghz and 4,5ghz it took a little to get it stable at 4.6ghz and anything higher my board don't boot or windows 8.1 pro trashes at start op.

my cpu-z validation for 4.6ghz with both cores enabled (i use CPU-Z 1.69.3 x64):










i keep by i5-4670k at 4ghz i don't think i really need more for my gaming at 2560x1440@120hz with my MSI GTX 780 Gaming OC 3gb.

here is a SuperPi mod 1.5 XS my i5-4570k @ 4ghz vs my Pentium G3258 4.6ghz (both is tested with 2400mhz memory speed):


----------



## tom_mili (Jul 7, 2014)

It looks like you got yourself a nice present for yourself. Happy birthday to you ! 
That is one weird bug.. Have you tried resetting CMOS ?

4.6 GHz at 1.3 V ? That's pretty decent chip I would say.. Hopefully I would get as good as yours or even better


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 7, 2014)

tom_mili said:


> It looks like you got yourself a nice present for yourself. Happy birthday to you !
> That is one weird bug.. Have you tried resetting CMOS ?
> 
> 4.6 GHz at 1.3 V ? That's pretty decent chip I would say.. Hopefully I would get as good as yours or even better



already did from inside the bios, plus my bluetooth on my Intel Wireless AC 7260 don't work either with this Pentium G3258, works fine with my i5-4670k


----------



## tom_mili (Jul 7, 2014)

I have just updated my BIOS version to 1.A0 and it's completely unstable to any setting that was previously stable with BIOS version 1.40.. Nothing weird seems to happen with my devices, tho.. 
I am not sure if CPU has anything to do with device problems but try to reinstall the driver to see if it fixes the problem.
I will tinker it for a bit and might roll back to 1.40 or any other BIOS version if it gives me too much headache..


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 7, 2014)

well now i tried clearing cmos not helping still the same problem 

so i guess MSI need to do more work on their bioses...


oki looks like clear cmos made my bluetooth work again


----------



## tom_mili (Jul 7, 2014)

Glad that you made it to work again 

I just rolled back to my 1.40 BIOS and surprisingly it wasn't stable either.. I noticed a huge voltage drop from what I set in the BIOS and saw in the windows. I set 1.20 V in BIOS but it only showed me 1.054 V in windows by using CPU-Z ( 1.69.3 ) and HWinfo64...
No wonder it won't be stable at 4.6GHz when I set 1.20 V in the bios... It's been long time since I overclocked mine so I must have forgotten something.. Back to tinkering again..


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 7, 2014)

so now i have done some benchmarks and i am actually oki impressive of what this little Intel Pentium G3258 can actually do at 4.6ghz when i put it against my i5-4670k at 4ghz.

we talking 2400mhz memory speed and a MSI N780 TF 3GD5/OC boosting itself to 1006mhz on the gpu while memory stays at 1502mhz.

here are 3DMark test even their page don't validate my G3258 maybe it's too new 

i5-4760k @ 4ghz: http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/3466271






Pentium G3258 @ 4,6ghz (Yes i know 3DMark/Futuremark calls it a G3420): http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/3487193






more will come later


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 7, 2014)

Idk if you all know, but PLL Termination voltage can affect cpu temperature threshold with Internal cpu PLL - auto/or enabled.

*


Spoiler



*older screen, now I have SVID disabled and 1.75v,




I've read @ overclock.net its ok up to 1.25v (default 1.00v), anything more and cpu doesn't like it.


So I tested up to max 1.20v and to my surprise it lowered cpu temp. by at least 5-7C on core0 but also raw cpu performance. Maybe that's why cpu doesn't like anything above 1.25v - gets underpowered by internal PLL or something like that.


I've tested it with 3dmark2011 physics part @ 4.6ghz and this is how it looked like; in all cases disabled C1E in Realtemp so it didnt downclock.

at auto & internal PLL - auto its ~12480 and core0 70-72C atm in summer.

1.050v minimal throttling by raw cpu perf. lost maybe 50-100points (~12390),  but temps. were lower too @ core0 64-66C - I use this atm.

1.10v throttles more, also score at least 200-300 points lower. (~12060)

1.15v  throttles a lot, lost up to 700 points, (~11600)

1.20v throttles the most, lost up to 1000 points (~ 11300)
by all above temps bellow 67C, higher PLL termination above 1.10v didnt lower °C anymore, only raw cpu power.


----------



## klepp0906 (Jul 9, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Are you using auto cpu voltage? Because 1.33v for 4.5ghz is overkill imo. I bet you would need max 1.20v.
> 
> 
> Gigabyte is known to overvolt top much by auto cpu voltage, I had the same problem with my old Gigabyte x48-DS5. I saw another user with similar Gigabyte z87 mobo reporting the same, he was at default 39x and 1.25v.:shadedshu


Lol I wonder how you would feel about my despicable chip taking 1.47v for 4.6 

That's 24hr prime stable voltage but still. Worst chip I've heard of 

It's predecessor did. 4.7 at 1.41 but didn't care for my ceramic tile apparently.  Silly me thought "hey Atleast I'll get a new chip that will clock a little better" ha!

Id love to be able to do. 4.5 @ 1.33 let alone friggin 1.20, and I run naked


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 9, 2014)

Don't feel too bad, my 4770k takes 1.30v to hit 4.4Ghz. Can't even really touch the CPU Ring speed, no matter what voltage I give it.


----------



## klepp0906 (Jul 9, 2014)

Ya best I can get with uncore is 44 or I lose prime stability regardless of voltage.  Not ideal but not as bad as yours apparently.

Are you delidded? I know if I was limited by heat I wouldn't be able to do 4.6, not even close.  The 1.47v it takes on air or without a delid would have melted it long ago 

The chips are resilient voltage wise, so long as you can keep it cool.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 9, 2014)

No, it's not delidded. I don't care that much to risk it and for the extra work.


----------



## klepp0906 (Jul 9, 2014)

Yea I hear ya. The only reason I did was the fact that I'm running 4 titans and they're severely bottlenecked by clock speed.  So much so that I'm still considering playing the silicon lottery to try for another couple hundred MHz. 

Ah if only CPUs were available at the dollar store. >.<


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 9, 2014)

With 4 titans you might as well go -E processor, or Xeon.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 9, 2014)

klepp0906 said:


> Yea I hear ya. The only reason I did was the fact that I'm running 4 titans and they're severely bottlenecked by clock speed.  So much so that I'm still considering playing the silicon lottery to try for another couple hundred MHz.
> 
> Ah if only CPUs were available at the dollar store. >.<



Dude, go with a 4930k. It is hard for me to recommend LGA1150 platform for people that want to run more than 2 GPUs.


----------



## klepp0906 (Jul 9, 2014)

Little late now  Would still be plenty bottlenecked via clockspeed regardless.


----------



## klepp0906 (Jul 9, 2014)

Lopez0101 said:


> With 4 titans you might as well go -E processor, or Xeon.


Not the number of cores nor the pcie lanes that are doing the bottlenecking 

Id lie if I said I didn't consider it when building this rig, but for several reasons I went haswell.  Cost and the fact I didn't initially intend to end up going apeshit first among them


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 9, 2014)

klepp0906 said:


> Not the number of cores nor the pcie lanes that are doing the bottlenecking
> 
> Id lie if I said I didn't consider it when building this rig, but for several reasons I went haswell.  Cost and the fact I didn't initially intend to end up going apeshit first among them



I feel like a 4930k at 4.5-4.7 would do a ton better than a Haswell build. But then again, I am not really sure how info from the CPU is send for the GPU for output. Like is it dependent on app or does that not matter with SLI and the extra cores and speed would be beneficial regardless.


----------



## yogurt_21 (Jul 10, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> I don't think Intel is fully prepared for how many of these they are going to sell. OR maybe they do, and that's why they are priced so cheap. $80 is perfect. Many "AAA" games cost that, and many gamers spend that every two weeks. As a throw-away CPU that lets OC return to entry markets, I am really hoping that these pentiums are the start of pulling this current gen of console gamers over to PCs, and then as enthusiasts, since I don't think we'll see another new XBOX, ever. Silicon limits and power budgets are just too close.
> 
> 
> Restricting OC to high-priced chips only was the stupidest thing this industry did.



Yeah I think the 500$ gaming rig might just make a comeback in a huge way. The last time I saw a good rally on a rig that was comparable in price to a console was in the athlon xp/pentium 4 days. On the right cooler a lower end P4 could clock up to the go neck and neck with the highend ones and the mobile athlon XP's smoked everything. I took an AXP 2600m from 2 to 2.7GHZ (35% clock) on water. This chip appears to be able to handle the same % clock on air while still being in the super budget range.


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## fullinfusion (Jul 11, 2014)

Ok *edit*

4.8GHz @ 1.25v and everything else on auto!


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## puma99dk| (Jul 11, 2014)

nice oc fullinfusion ^^

maybe it's time to get myself a i7 *"if"* it would work properly in my MSI Z87 Gaming AC board and i don't have to have the same problems as with my Intel Pentium G3258....


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## fullinfusion (Jul 11, 2014)

puma99dk| said:


> nice oc fullinfusion ^^
> 
> maybe it's time to get myself a i7 *"if"* it would work properly in my MSI Z87 Gaming AC board and i don't have to have the same problems as with my Intel Pentium G3258....


Is there not a bios update for that board?

Im running @ 4.9 ATM testing and using a Maximus VI formula Z87

And Im having alot of fun tonight


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## puma99dk| (Jul 11, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> Is there not a bios update for that board?
> 
> Im running @ 4.9 ATM testing and using a Maximus VI formula Z87
> 
> And Im having alot of fun tonight



i already is running the latest bios v1.3 that should support Devil's Canyon and my Intel Pentium G3258 but when i oc it don't want to reboot from bios or oc only cold boots.


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## fullinfusion (Jul 11, 2014)

puma99dk| said:


> i already is running the latest bios v1.3 that should support Devil's Canyon and my Intel Pentium G3258 but when i oc it don't want to reboot from bios or oc only cold boots.


Might be the board, I know certian boards are locking the multi in the bios and the users cant go past x47
But that might be just Asus who knows.

I just booted @ 5GHz


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 11, 2014)

Im not sure what is good but passed @ 5.0GHz


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 11, 2014)

Very good , what batch is it?


btw I got the same cinebench11.5 @ 4.7ghz , cache 4.2ghz, ram 2400mhz ^^

but with  more heat on hottest core0 69-72C @ H90 pp fans,


----------



## puma99dk| (Jul 11, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> Might be the board, I know certian boards are locking the multi in the bios and the users cant go past x47
> But that might be just Asus who knows.
> 
> I just booted @ 5GHz



i haven't had a problem using the multiplier and if it's locked then how can i boot at x46 and run superpi, 3dmark, catzilla and more without a problem with the little Pentium fella? ^^


nice 5ghz would be nice having a 5ghz quad-core ^^


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 11, 2014)

Batch #L418C164

Same as Cadaveca's ones.

In the bios on Auto the vCpu is 1.040v

It's a nice chip but I lack the knowledge to clock and be stable @ 5.0Ghz

SB and IB chips were NP but Hasswell lol, TBD 

4.9 is so far 100% stable for all my tests but as soon as I hit 5ghz things go for shit. 

It boots into windows and runs AIDA but as soon as I run either Cinibench it locks up.


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 11, 2014)

*Sorry about my DP's, but Im HELPING CADAVECA* *to compile info on these Hasswell chips* *For his Hasswell Overclocking Part II Thread *

Temperatures are fantastic with this chip, The highest I've seen is 75c ish

I think 4.9 is the best 24/7 stable so far. Im going to need help with all the other voltages to try and stabilize a 5GHz clock speed.

Who know's maybe a new Bios from ASUS will fix the 100MHz jump Im having problems with but hey FTW this DC chip Is killer


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 11, 2014)

Stable with current voltage. Im going to drop it to 1.30v and see what happens.


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 11, 2014)

My 100% sweet spot of 4.8GHz .

5.1GHz is bootable, but I don't know enough yet about these chips to try for stable.

I'm sure it's even higher under LN2 but I dont play with that stuffs


----------



## yogurt_21 (Jul 11, 2014)

but but lies, I mean cmon every review said 5GHZ a pipe dream, 4.7 highest. lol

4.8 24/7 clock seems to fly in the face of that. Mine should be here shortly though it will take a bit to be back up and running. Rig has been down since early june.


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 11, 2014)

Well it is still, 5ghz just isnt 24/7, 99% end up at 4.7 - 4.8ghz.


----------



## Holythief (Jul 12, 2014)

Hi guys,

I've had a 4670k since launch but never had the cooling to overclock, that is until yesterday.

So I've started tinkering about and so far I've got to 4.5ghz at 1.25v (Passed a 12 hour run of intel extreme utility, max temp is 68 Degrees)

This is actually my first experience overclocking with a core i3/5/7 series cpu, prior to this i had a q6600, so my question is do you guys have any tips on how to improve my OC ?

Do you think i should try and push for more or start  fine tuning and reducing voltage ?

Thanks in advance for any replies (Also first TPU post)


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 12, 2014)

1.3v is kind of the higher end for voltage if you want to run 24/7. I'd say see what you can get at 1.3v.


----------



## yogurt_21 (Jul 12, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Well it is still, 5ghz just isnt 24/7, 99% end up at 4.7 - 4.8ghz.


No the reviewers claimed it wouldn't even post at 4.9GHZ much less 5. and Fullinfusion not only posted, but booted into windows and ran a benchmark successfully. Reviewers don't have chips long enough for 24/7 clock testing. If they were only able to hit 4.7 it might mean the 24/7 clocks of the chip were it's turbo speed and nothing more.

seeing 24/7 400MHZ higher than turbo flies in the face of what they were claiming.

At any rate I'm typing this from my i7 4790k rig right now. Ran a bench got 10580 in 3dmark 11. While that is 2000pts higher than my i7 950 and gtx 480 sli rig at stock, it's 1000pts lower than the max score. That will not do at all! Must get clocking.


Batch number is L336D109
anyone have a chip from that batch?


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 12, 2014)

I like the ability to clock the shit outa this 4790K chip and have a good night of benching, plus the ability to run stock clocks at low volts 

My board just runs full turbo mode sense the last Asus bios update and that's fine with me.

I'm working on 4.5GHz @1.12v under full stress. I can boot into windows @ 1.10v but it don't last to long.







@yogurt_21  what clocks and voltages are you having luck with?


----------



## Holythief (Jul 13, 2014)

So while stress testing my OC (4.5ghz at 1.23v) both intel xtreme utility and AIDA 64 (im only keeping this open for monitoring) reprot that my clocks dropped however AIDA indicates no thermal throttling at all.

Intel xtreme utility shows in the last hour it dropped ever so slightly from 4.5ghz to 4.47ghz






Whereas AIDA shows multiple drops to base 3.4ghz






Any one have any idea why ? Could it be just a visual anomaly ?


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 13, 2014)

Typical fluctuations with CPU load? I've never seen any GPU or CPU stay 100% static.

More curiously, is the base frequency of the Ring Cache 3.8Ghz now? Isn't the 4770k 3.9Ghz stock?


----------



## Holythief (Jul 13, 2014)

Ah I see.

Also I have a 4670k not a 4770k. Which may explain the ring bus speed.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 13, 2014)

Oh, I didn't notice. Thought you were working on a 4790k.


----------



## Holythief (Jul 14, 2014)

Ok, so after a 24 hour test, my 4670k is stable at 4.5 ghz at 1.24v.

Now that's using fixed volts, i want to ask is there a way to run the cpu so that its not fixed at 1.24 and can drop alongside clocks when im idling or the pc is asleep ?

If so can someone give me some info/instructions on how to do so because i really have no clue.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 14, 2014)

@fullinfusion So your Z87 board does support Devils Canyon it seems?


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 14, 2014)

You leave SpeedStep and all the other power saving features on.


----------



## Holythief (Jul 14, 2014)

When i went to OC, i did not touch any of those settings, so shouldn't they be on by default ?

Literally, all i did to achieve this OC, is set cores to sync across all cores at a 45 multiplier, and change voltage from adaptive to 1.24.

All other settings remain stock/default.

My cpu can still down clock while idling, however the voltage remains at a fixed 1.24v.


----------



## Lopez0101 (Jul 14, 2014)

Ah. I can change my voltages while still leaving it on adaptive. There should be a setting in there, but I have an MSI board.


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 14, 2014)

Holythief said:


> When i went to OC, i did not touch any of those settings, so shouldn't they be on by default ?
> 
> Literally, all i did to achieve this OC, is set cores to sync across all cores at a 45 multiplier, and change voltage from adaptive to 1.24.
> 
> ...



use adaptive voltage @ 1.24v, but now dont stress test it anymore or it will have 0.08v overvoltage by avx2.



also you can enable C-states and dynamic storage accelerator (Tiny Lake @ MSI mobo) so RST controls its C-states according to windows power plan.


Power saver uses C7
Balanced uses C3
High Performance C0


Its takes some time at windows start before rst service loads it and changes properly, usually until windows loads Action Center.

You can also manually force high performance gear regardless of windows power plan, then it will be at C0 all the time. But do use balanced so  it drops its cpu VID to idle 0.72v while its in idle.


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 14, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> @fullinfusion So your Z87 board does support Devils Canyon it seems?


You betcha, this board loves the DC chip. My last post of 4.5ghz passed all night of stress with only 1.128v and 47-48c for Temp's.. I lucked out big time on this chip like big time and I must thank the big guy up north for it 

Next test when I get home is testing 4.6-4.7 for lowest volts. I know 4.8 and 4.9ghz uses the stock bios volts of 1.25v so that test is done.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 14, 2014)

I read that the first batch of chips weren't that great, but ones now have been quite a bit better. I want one.


----------



## yogurt_21 (Jul 14, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> @yogurt_21  what clocks and voltages are you having luck with?


 thus far is 4.6 with 1.14v.  though that's the only tweaking I've done to the cpu this far. been too busy trying to get the gpu to surpass the 480 sli.

Every bench I run shows the cpu to be faster than the gpu... not used to that at all.


----------



## Hellfire (Jul 17, 2014)

So my first ever Intel build (was an AMD for a long time)

Finished her today and got her running on 4.6Ghz at v1.274 (which I hear isn't bad)

- Asus Sabertooth Z97 mk1
- Intel 4790k OC to 4.6ghz at 1.27v
- Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1600 8.8.8.24 at 1.65
- Corsair H100i in push/pull with 4xSP120 performance
- Corsair 750D
- Sapphire 7970 Vapor X 1100/1500
- Samsung 840 pro 256Gb SSD
- 2x 2Tb WD caviar blacks
- XFX 850 pro black edition


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 17, 2014)

A little problem I ran into today which had me pulling out my hair that I just want to share.

It all started with me doing a secure erase on my ssd to prep it for a clean OS install.
Everything went fine and was installing the drivers, when I went to install the gpu driver the system just froze 

I just hit the reset button on the case and when she went to boot up I got SMART error in the bios splash screen and it wouldn't boot.
Im like WTF is going on 

Meanwhile the wife was in the room on our treadmill doing her workout and I had a plugged in small usb powered fan that I had going before the OS install
It helps her to stay cool  

Well I was plagued with more SMART disk drive problems. It was telling me my WD storage was fucked too! WTH!!!

Bios was slow as hell and laggy, Now im really wondering wth is going on.

It turns out that little bastard fan was causing all the problems!!

Not to self and others, don't use usb powered fans lol


----------



## Hellfire (Jul 17, 2014)

Yeah I came across this before years back, I had a Logitech USB webcamera, got a new PC build and the PC wouldn't boot if the webcam was plugged in. eventually I had to get a USB box with an on off switch.


----------



## TheHunter (Jul 18, 2014)

So I was looking at Asus OC guides again and stumbled upon few interesting settings, well I kinda knew them from before but never really payed attention to it,. Now that its summer I decided to take another look,  I would like 4.7ghz to be as cold as possible 


http://rog.asus.com/254052013/maxim...ngs-for-overclocking-maximus-vi-motherboards/

Here it mentions everything including PLL terminal voltage (still best at auto), power saving stuff, etc.


I found this interesting for higher OC ie 4.6 - 4.7ghz+ and set it like mentioned in the article


> *Idle Power-in Response controls how fast the integrated voltage regulator should respond to the reduction of power level requests when the CPU idles down. This option can be set to Regular for better O.C. margin just in case if the CPU load fluctuates too fast. Setting to Fast allows the CPU to drain relatively less power from the integrated voltage regulator over time, making it more power saving when in action.
> 
> *Idle Power-out Response controls how fast the integrated voltage regulator should respond to the rise of power level request when load is applied to the CPU. Setting to Fast enables the CPU to receive the higher voltage with a relatively shorter delay, which essentially helps to improve the O.C. margin under extensive O.C.
> 
> **Power Decay Mode is the idle time power saving function of the CPU integrated voltage regulator. Can be set to Disabled to allow more O.C. margin while Enabled for better power efficiency, i.e. more power saving.




Power-In Regular
Power-Out Fast
Power decay - enabled so its now more power friendly in idle with both above manual.
I tried VR efficiency management at - balanced but it throttled raw cpu power (similar throttling like PLL terminal @1.20v), at auto looks the best and switches between balanced and higher perf. when needed.





[Imgur](http://i.imgur.com/Q5RTj84.jpg)


So everything above made internal iVR a little cooler and affected cpu core °C, kinda like PLL terminal voltage (1.050v - 1.10v), but I decided to keep PLL termination @ auto it wasnt so stable in end, got few random mid-load bsod 0x124.. So anyway I ran 3dmark11 physics before up to core0 72C, now with both IN/OUT regular/fast and that Power decay -on its 66-68 °C with still a very good score for win8.1 (~12540) @ 4.7ghz 1.275v., LLC7 instead of auto (LLC8?)..



 

 

 

 

 

 



**LLC6 makes 75% which is "optimal" when using adaptive voltage, at least thats what I've read once. 
Screens taken with LLC6, <<testing this again.


manual ram cause im not in xmp anymore, used auto xmp for almost all and disabled memory training


 

 



which got me this, mostly I was ~ 35.8gb/s, now nice 36gb/s 







Also this looks interesting, I always had this on by default



> Note that if overclocking past 4.5GHz, it can be beneficial to turn disable the Anti Surge Support setting in the Monitor section of UEFI to prevent power shut-off due to Super IO polling.


http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33488-Maximus-VI-Series-UEFI-Guide-for-Overclocking


Anybody tested this Antisurge - disabled?


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 18, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Anybody tested this Antisurge - disabled?




AntiSurge disables OCP readings by Super I/O that can cause immediate shutdown. Can be extremely useful to disable when pushing near the limit, but I wouldn't recommend for 24/7 to disable unless all you use your system for is benching.

So, you push a clock, high clock, and system reboots...try increase current limits, and disable Anti Surge.

Adjusting all the power settings you mention, as suggested by the info you linked, is for benching, not 24-7 use, IMHO. Like yeah, it can allow you to push higher clocks a bit more reliably, but you are overriding CPU/Platform behaviors that are there to make sure stuff doesn't blow up. I think you can find a few more things that will help you, too.


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## TheHunter (Jul 18, 2014)

Thanks will keep it alone as it is enabled.

Yeah I had such power off at first when I got this cpu and with various OC's, but usually higher vccin or higher cpu current % or higher LLC or higher cpuv fixed it.



That power IN - regular and power OUT - fast, can use more power over time, but this power decay appears to eliminate any extra consumption while keeping it a little cooler..
Will see if its worse in a few days or when I play some more stressful games, Cinebench15 appeared to be a little cooler too (2-3C) and with same CB score.


EDIT: I already found out PLL termination is not good for tweaking like I thought at first, best still @ auto ^^

Also need at least LLC7 with above settings & SVID 1.75V @ 4.7ghz 1.275v..



What got my attention was mostly these parts

"This option can be set to Regular for better O.C. margin just in case if the CPU load fluctuates too fast"  <<< had this once either hard freeze or quick power off/restart,

"receive the higher voltage with a relatively shorter delay, which essentially helps to improve the O.C."


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## TheHunter (Jul 18, 2014)

But if there is 30-33C outside @ 7pm and sun shining  inside the room with shades down, its not so cool 

now it idles 31-36C vs 24-28C yesterday night


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## fullinfusion (Jul 25, 2014)

This DC chip sure shines 

I wish I had some _Faaaast_ memory to test out the memory controller on this chip.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 25, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> This DC chip sure shines
> 
> I wish I had some _Faaaast_ memory to test out the memory controller on this chip.



I give you $500. 






Ive never actually used CineBench before. Downloading it right now, and going to try it out on my 4.5GHZ overclock.


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 25, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I give you $500.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Homo ,,, SOLD!!!

Yeah its a fun rendering program... If shit isn't stable;e then you'll know soon enough.

just ran X264 encode...

@MxPhenom 216  post some Cinibench for a comparison please


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## TheHunter (Jul 25, 2014)

Nice temps in Cinebench11.5, I get that @ 4.7ghz 1.28v if its cool enough, ie up to ~ 25C ambient. Score I think 10.39


What temps did you get in this x264fhd?

I score 31.3fps @ 4.7ghz, 42x, 2400 here.. max temp per core 75-73-71-67


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## fullinfusion (Jul 25, 2014)

71c was the hottest core, the rest were 65-67c


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## erixx (Jul 26, 2014)

I am just beginging with this chip. At stock it is amazing how fluid and how cool it stays during BF4 game at max settings.
Have done some test runs at higher clocks and also the auto OC thing, but not much.

Thanks for all the info full infusion1


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 26, 2014)

Appears my chip wasn't as stable as I thought at 4.5ghz. Dropped it down to 4.4ghz for the time being. Was starting to get a lot more lock ups in game. Multiple times a day in Smite mostly, few in Battlefield 4.


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## TheHunter (Jul 26, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Appears my chip wasn't as stable as I thought at 4.5ghz. Dropped it down to 4.4ghz for the time being. Was starting to get a lot more lock ups in game. Multiple times a day in Smite mostly, few in Battlefield 4.



If you had that 4.5ghz @ 1.350v did you try 1.354v? and if you had cpu system agent @ stock or idk 0.020v did you try 0.025v+ offset. 
Also input voltage probably needs to be ~ 1.83v with LLC - auto and in DIGI+ 120 or 130% cpu current.

I noticed input voltage is ok with ~ 0.45v gap, anything less and its unpredictable. 
Im my case 4.6ghz @ 1.234v >> input voltage 1.72v and LLC - auto, anything less and it can bsod or hard reset. 

Imo you're almost stable just minor tweaking to stabilize to max


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 26, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> If you had that 4.5ghz @ 1.350v did you try 1.354v? and if you had cpu system agent @ stock or idk 0.020v did you try 0.025v+ offset. Also input voltage probably need ~ 1.82v with LLC - auto and in DIGI+ 120 or 130% cpu current.
> 
> 
> Imo you're almost stable just minor tweaking to stabilize to max



I was at 1.34v actually. 1.9v input. +0.045 vccsa and current at 130% i think.


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## TheHunter (Jul 26, 2014)

I see, well when you're in a tweak mood again maybe try 1.344v, lower input to 1.85v and vccsa maybe 0.050 or 0.055v


btw I edited my post a little :]


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## cadaveca (Jul 26, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I was at 1.34v actually. 1.9v input. +0.045 vccsa and current at 130% i think.


I'd agree with TheHunter here and say that vInput might be a bit high, and that you should be able to pull everything in line with a  bit of time spent tweaking things. I'd also suggest boosting DIO a little bit, and increasing vCache a big chunk., especially if you've updated to one of the BIOSes that came out since the Devil's Canyon launch.

Also, I've been talking wit ha few other users of ASUS Z87/Z97 boards and there seems to be some issues still rpesent with BIOS corruption when crashing on OC, so flashing a fresh copy of your current BIOS may prove to fix thing all on it's own... USB BIOS Flashback feature being built in now seems like it was there for a reason.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 27, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> I'd agree with TheHunter here and say that vInput might be a bit high, and that you should be able to pull everything in line with a  bit of time spent tweaking things. I'd also suggest boosting DIO a little bit, and increasing vCache a big chunk., especially if you've updated to one of the BIOSes that came out since the Devil's Canyon launch.
> 
> Also, I've been talking wit ha few other users of ASUS Z87/Z97 boards and there seems to be some issues still rpesent with BIOS corruption when crashing on OC, so flashing a fresh copy of your current BIOS may prove to fix thing all on it's own... USB BIOS Flashback feature being built in now seems like it was there for a reason.



Ill probably mess with it a bit later on. Thanks for the info. my vcache is at 1.15v for 39x multi.

Wierd thing is, im not quite sure the bugcheck code for the hard lock/BSOD i got last night is due to cpu/memory instability.

0x0000001e

I have been getting some Nvidia driver crashes through too, when I play the game Smite. I remember getting driver crashes too, when my CPU wasnt 100% stable a while back when I first started overclocking. the crashes would go away when CPU was at stock.

EDIT: Sounds like that code means more vcore.


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## TheHunter (Jul 27, 2014)

Yes its either this or this 

0x1E = increase vcore, or lower RAM frequency/ increase RAM voltage


0x1E = add more vcore


Although if you OC your ram then do use 120% ram power current in digi+.


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## cadaveca (Jul 27, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Yes its either this or this
> 
> 0x1E = increase vcore, or lower RAM frequency/ increase RAM voltage
> 
> ...


  he's got 1.5V 2133 Dominator platinum sticks, shouldn't need any digi+ boost with those ones in particular, although boosting them up to 1.575 might make sure that it's not a weird ram thing that is the problem.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 27, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> he's got 1.5V 2133 Dominator platinum sticks, shouldn't need any digi+ boost with those ones in particular, although boosting them up to 1.575 might make sure that it's not a weird ram thing that is the problem.



I have them clocked at 2400. Voltage is at 1.65v


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## cadaveca (Jul 27, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I have them clocked at 2400. Voltage is at 1.65v




shouldn't matter much, even then, but you can push up the current limit no problem. I just don't think you'd need to. you could probably push those to 2666...vDIO is what needs the boost to be able to boot that speed, and what might be something to look at rather than current limits.  When we went through the OC on your sticks, seemed to me that your CPU was the limit preventing you from getting higher.


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## mstenholm (Jul 27, 2014)

yogurt_21 said:


> No the reviewers claimed it wouldn't even post at 4.9GHZ much less 5. and Fullinfusion not only posted, but booted into windows and ran a benchmark successfully. Reviewers don't have chips long enough for 24/7 clock testing. If they were only able to hit 4.7 it might mean the 24/7 clocks of the chip were it's turbo speed and nothing more.
> 
> seeing 24/7 400MHZ higher than turbo flies in the face of what they were claiming.
> 
> ...


I got a L336D105 but didn't test it a lot. It does 4.59 @ 1.273 V.


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## TheHunter (Jul 28, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> shouldn't matter much, even then, but you can push up the current limit no problem. I just don't think you'd need to. you could probably push those to 2666...vDIO is what needs the boost to be able to boot that speed, and what might be something to look at rather than current limits.  When we went through the OC on your sticks, seemed to me that your CPU was the limit preventing you from getting higher.




When I ran mine at stock 2133mhz I left this ram current alone, @ 2400mhz I had 120% for a while and it was rock solid, then I changed to 110% and after some time (~2 weeks) it started to act weird, right before logon it would bsod or rest pc.. After I put back to 120% it stopped and haven't seen it since. 
But now its using more wattage, always min 20w, at stock 100% I think it was a lot lower, 5-6w or so. 


btw whats vDIO, digital IO cpu voltage? 


EDIT:
So I could run mine at ie 110% too, but I would need to adjust this vDIO?

Although I already played with this DIO once, but idk how to set properly, I set it 50mv more then analog but it didnt help much.
Im also using vccsa 0.045v atm @ 4.6ghz, had 0.040v but now at 0.045v i noticed i get better fps by cpu bound game benchmarks.


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## cadaveca (Jul 28, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> When I ran mine at stock 2133mhz I left this ram current alone, @ 2400mhz I had 120% for a while and it was rock solid, then I changed to 110% and after some time (~2 weeks) it started to act weird, right before logon it would bsod or rest pc.. After I put back to 120% it stopped and haven't seen it since.
> But now its using more wattage, always min 20w, at stock 100% I think it was a lot lower, 5-6w or so.
> 
> 
> ...


yep, digital I/O voltage. stock is usually around 1.02-1.05 for most chips I've seen, but I've seen BIOS default to higher. I know that for me to be able to push those 3000MHz + clocks, 1.2V DIO is essential.

So, I tell you my story about this:


I am testing 4790K test further, and find that up to 2400 Mhz boot, no problem. 2600/2666, no go, and I got ram rated for 3100 MHz...WTF!?! Try other memories, nothing over 2400 MHz is working, and when I do get 2666 working, bandwidth is garbage...just worse than 1600 basically, but with OK latency...OMG why is this so hard when it was so easy a year ago? Swap in a few boards, try other things, pull down MSI Z97 Mpower, start ticking off the voltages, one by one... 

So, I check back in my notebook as to what I was setting way back when I was pushing 3400-3600 MHz on my review 4770K, since I decided to use 4770K and see what's what, since my ES 4790K has some damage, and remembered after some time of no luck (like a week off playing with settings) that IO's on 4770K needed 1.25V, or no boot...but here I am @ 2600 with no boot? So I push up to 1.25V...it works fine.

Slowly lowered it until no boot re-appeared, and this began @ 1.125V. But, I could warm boot, just not cold boot. So push a bit higher, 1.15V, cold boot, warm boot, both no problem, from 2600-3200 MHz. But full stability... that took just a wee bit more, up to 1.185V....


I am not sure what this DIO, what it's for. Like, I got some ideas, but documentation and such is so sketchy... So that's where I'm at right now. almost every board, no matter the brans, over 2400 MHz..there's ZERO bios tuning. MSI has some nice profiles to use, they work great. ASUS, tertiary timings are garbage, and they say "oh, you try set 8 for everything, and then lower and test". Yeah, right. If that worked, BIOS would already been tuned like it was over a year ago, new BIOS programmer isn't doing it fully, or is a noob. Check Gigabyte.. same story. ASRock...yeah, they need some work too.

Anything up to 2400 MHz, no problems.

That said, with al lteh testing I've done, I'm getting pretty close to being ready to write my next guide.


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## erixx (Jul 28, 2014)

There are not enough "Thanks" buttons to thank those contributions like the above. 
I am not sure if this thread includes the 4790K (yes, is a Haswell, but ...)

It looks like this cpu or the z97 platform is not turn multis up and ready...


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## TheHunter (Jul 29, 2014)

Ok so I tested like so and it got a bit hot..

4.6ghz @ 1.234v
LLC auto, cpu current 120%, ram current 110%
SVID 1.72v
vccsa 0.020
vDIO 0.125v




before I had max 60C on core0,

@ 4.7ghz it was max max 65C, usually 62C if its not to hot inside.



Although when I ran cinebench15 it was 2C cooler on core0  (max 67C) then at vDIO 0.150v (max 69C), and I got better score with 0.125v (935cb) then at 0.150v (933cb)




EDIT: ok must have been cpu vrm Powerin/powerout glitch. I ran 3dmark2011 physics test and it was cool like it suppose to be and with correct score.



By RE5 I see it happened in 1st level (1min later later), its usually where it gets the hottest now with new gpu.. Before with my old 580gtx it was at 3rd part of bench this as on pic above.



Will try to lower some more


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## TheHunter (Jul 29, 2014)

Sorry for spam xD

This atm looks more promising 

4.6ghz - 1.230v
vDIO 0.100v+ offset
cpu Power Decay - enabled (just in case si it doesnt overshot when going form idle to max load)

rest the same
SVID 1.72v, cpu 120%, ram 110%
vccsa 0.020v+ offset (0.832v)


and I got this in RE5



Cinebench15 got 937cb core0 68C, which is also almost the best score @ 4.6ghz (pb was 939cb)


Hopefully its ok by cold boot too, tnx Dave


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## fullinfusion (Jul 30, 2014)

You guys and your offset lol.. I don't have offset so I can't advise. Headhunter you need to get a DC so you can stop comparing but my chip gets this at that lol.. 
I ran a pile of tests last week and in fact these new hasswell chips are different then the older chips. I have given Dave all my info and I guess we're all going to have to wait till he gets back with his new updated oc hand book


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## TheHunter (Jul 30, 2014)

^^
Its not that different to DC from what I saw. Guess mine also has a smaller gap between glue and cpu making it little cooler then the most average Joe.. 
I only showed those various benches because I showed them here before with other temps. C, now im just repiling how these new settings work 


btw Im still ok at those settings from yesterday @ cold boot.


Will try to lower vDIO some more 

edit: atm 0.090v is still ok


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## TheHunter (Aug 1, 2014)

Ok for 4.7ghz I had to leave vDIO @ 0.090 and bump up vccsa from 0.20 to 0.030 (stabler fps), rest the same cpu power 120, ram power 110%.

Much much better then old 4.7ghz+ 2400mhz ram OC settings,. Its 5-7C cooler too in something like x264 encoder @ adaptive voltage with avx spikes, thanks again Dave


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## fullinfusion (Aug 7, 2014)

This is working pretty well 

This DC has so many options for a OC!


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## LagunaX (Aug 11, 2014)

I settled for 4.7ghz core 4.4ghz uncore on my delidded Devil's Canyon as far as vcore and temps for 24/7.






One thing I must say is that Prime95 v285 is worthless unless you want to fry an egg for Haswell.

Funny thing is that I thought I was stable after passing IBT on max and AIDA64 for 1.5 hrs but crashed on the second pass of the x264 HD v.5.0.1 benchmark.

Upped my adaptive offset from 0.8 to 1.0 and input voltage from 1.83 to 1.85v and was stable after that.

x264 seems the definitive stability benchmark for Haswell and maybe Ivy too:
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=520
link to a modified looped version for haswell testing below:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1487922/going-deeper-on-the-x264-v2-stress-test

Delidding and build pics here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-club-guide/25750#post_22687530

@cadaveca :  yes, running the Samsung greens at 11-11-11-28 1T DDR3 1100 1.45v above


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## LagunaX (Aug 12, 2014)

Oh yeah, just for everyone's FYI I delidded using the hammerless vice method, which I believe to be the most brainless and safest, where once you have the padded green chip PCB against one edge and the top shelf of the metal IHS against the other edge, gradually little twists of the vice will give you your delid without the potential of cutting into the PCB or knocking a resistor off.


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## TheHunter (Aug 16, 2014)

Idk why but that looked very painful 


I think I won't risk it, 300€ is not small cash ^^


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 16, 2014)

I wish I had a good chip, otherwise I would delid, but if I delid I'm alreadying needing 1.34v+ for 4.5. So I dont really think I'm temp limited. But I could be wrong, idk.


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## fullinfusion (Aug 22, 2014)

I must say I love this Benchmark for testing the cpu stability.

X-264 ver 5.0.1 
And also dont forget to install *AviSynth 2.5.8*

I sure have breathing room in the temperature department 
I've decided to play more as all I have is stock, 4.5 and the mighty 4.9 24/7 but I want more then the 4.5 so here I am...


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## LagunaX (Aug 22, 2014)

Yeah I like it too, as for most ppl x264 encoding or BF4 is the most stressful their CPU will get.
Try the other looped one too - I passed x264 v.5.0.1 x64 BUT had to up my voltage up just a little to pass 5 loops of the looped version x64 16 threads chosen.


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## fullinfusion (Aug 22, 2014)

LagunaX said:


> Yeah I like it too, as for most ppl x264 encoding or BF4 is the most stressful their CPU will get.
> Try the other looped one too - I passed x264 v.5.0.1 x64 BUT had to up my voltage up just a little to pass 5 loops of the looped version x64 16 threads chosen.


I have and yes, Your not going to stress any higher then using those 2 programs for sure


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## fullinfusion (Aug 29, 2014)

What the fuck is wrong with ASUS and there shotty bioses?

Ive been having issues with my clocks and am trying to narrow down a bad cpu or board.

under LLC i was running 1.350v to the core and a llc of 7

Ive been testing and at a level of LLC @ 1 i notice no change in voltage.
@ level 2,3,4,5,6,7 the cpu core voltage goes upto 1.376v it dont change from that value.

any input with wth is going on?


----------



## TheHunter (Aug 31, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> What the fuck is wrong with ASUS and there shotty bioses?
> 
> Ive been having issues with my clocks and am trying to narrow down a bad cpu or board.
> 
> ...


LLC affects only SVID - VCCIN - input voltage.

LLC7 - LLC8 will be pinned at ie 1.80v, sometimes overvolt for 0.01v.
LLC6- LLC-5 will make that 1.80v drop to 1.77 or 1.75v and this can cause that typical wmea or watchdog timeout. << Too much input voltage fluctuations/jitter

Im just keeping all that digi+ stuff at auto, it seems to work the best now with newer bios.. Actually on my mobo since last 4 versions.

I've set mine like so
1.75v @ LLC auto >> 1.76v for 4.7ghz @ cpuvid 1.284v (corev 1.296v)
1.72v @ LLC auto >> 1.73v for 4.6ghz @ cpuvid 1.234v (corev 1.249v)

^
If at 1.30v+ territory then you will need ~1.82v for 1.35v or 1.85v for 1.38v, but only if you keep LLC- auto.


Speaking of that vDIO & ram OC,
For 4.6ghz I had to raise vDIO back to  0.100v+
For 4,7ghz vDIO 0.120+ or I would get random hard freeze in more demanding ram scenarios.
Ram current is still @ 110%, cpu current 120% by both., so its kinda cooler by default vs old cpu 130%, ram 120%, @ 4.7ghz


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## fullinfusion (Sep 1, 2014)

Thanks hunter I can't hit the thanks button as I'm roaming and have my browser not loading images. 

And your talking Chinese in some parts to me lol.. I just found out anything over 1.34v to these DC cores degrade them.. I needed more dio and aio.. 1.25v to be exact to be stable at 4.9.. I had the core at 1.40v because of the degrade but sense I lowered it to 1.325 and have lowered the llc and other digital settings I'm stable again.. I just settled at 4.8 for benching and 4.6 for 24/7 ... Only till I get a z97,board to make use of the new power features that is.


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## erixx (Sep 1, 2014)

For now, suscribed  Thanks to all contributors!!!


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## TheHunter (Sep 1, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> Thanks hunter I can't hit the thanks button as I'm roaming and have my browser not loading images.
> 
> And your talking Chinese in some parts to me lol.. I just found out anything over 1.34v to these DC cores degrade them.. I needed more dio and aio.. 1.25v to be exact to be stable at 4.9.. I had the core at 1.40v because of the degrade but sense I lowered it to 1.325 and have lowered the llc and other digital settings I'm stable again.. I just settled at 4.8 for benching and 4.6 for 24/7 ... Only till I get a z97,board to make use of the new power features that is.





Maybe you checked cpu coreV voltage instead of cpuVID? cpu coreV is usually a little higher then CoreVID.


btw LoadLineCalibration affects only input voltage (SVID) - this is @ auto 1.79v.


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## fullinfusion (Sep 1, 2014)

Hunter I should note that I have no turbo mode lol. Its running full turbo 24/7.. Asus board I have won't let the user set the low states to throttle down core clocks or voltage. I've tried and nada works... I used to set my 3770k to offset voltage of -15 and at idle it run under a GHz and under a volt with the states in the bios enabled.. This maximus formula vi has all the tweaks but they don't work.. If I go into the windows power management I can get the clocks to drop a few hundred MHz but that's useless compared to how I really want it to work.


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## TheHunter (Sep 1, 2014)

Hm well im using basic turbo OC. And balanced power plan then drops to low 800mhz, @ high perf its at fixed multi while in idle but only if I disable C1E.


This fixed turbo is fixed, i think its how it is no? Imo not really efficient..
Just use EIST and turbo OC, it won't fluctuate @ full load if that's what you worry about, once in full load it will stay there if @ high performance power plan.


EDIT:
I'll post my current cache and cpu adpative voltages, brb. Im sure ROG mobos have the same + a bunch extra.


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## fullinfusion (Sep 1, 2014)

Sure sounds good but I won't be able to see the pix till tomorrow morning when I hit a WiFi hotspot.. American roaming for data blows but an american roaming in Canada get great data rates so go figure lol.. Plus when I get home tomorrow night I'll send you all my bios screens to do with my power options and maybe you can steer me into the right direction so my rig isn't buzzing at 4.8 24/7 lol


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## erixx (Sep 2, 2014)

Motivated by your crazy Mhz whores fun, i updated to the latest bios, which i did NOT want to do....lol.... I just told the uefi 'Gimme a goddamm 4800 mhz" and watch me drippong doing a full 3D Mark 2014 suite withoit error. Previusly I could not even boot this 4790k at 4700.... Looks like a promising base for more transgressions... .


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## erixx (Sep 2, 2014)

Cool, isn't it, as the first weeks the 4970K was nearly declared unoverclockable or hard to do so...... And it indeed... WAS.
First I got a restart at the very end of the full 3DMark suite, I lost track of the exact episode.
Any way, I just maxed all my fans speeds, and set Nvidia control panel to use its profiles for 3D Mark. Exited Aida and AI Suite. Ran it. Finished it.
My results are significantly better runnning the 4790K processor at 4800 Mhz over standard 4000/4400 Turbo mode (by using LevelUp, nothing manual). With previous UEFI this was impossible on my Maximus 7 Gene.
So I will keep it and see if all my software runs errorfree.
Ah, the voltage is now 1.3 v.
My Fire Strike went from 6200 to 6500. GPÛ not overclocked! :O)


----------



## fullinfusion (Sep 2, 2014)

Well experience has it don't go over 1.32v period in windows.. Keep a close eye on that and key in a value to keep it just under that 1.32 v.. And 3dmark isn't shit. Run h-264 encode bench version 5.01 I believe is the version..  I can run 3dmark all day long at 1.32v at 4.9ghz but soon as I run the encoder bench it fails in seconds until I up the volltage.. If it makes it then you can jump for joy and if not keep poking away  also use Intel's XTU and run the stress test for 2 hrs or so.. Its a good one to use.. It don't hammer the shit outa the rig like prime will but then again what program ever runs the cpu like prime would? Non I know of and look at it this way, if it passes you won't need to worrie is it stable!? 

One more thing install bionic manager and crunch a few days at full load.. That's a terrific program for stability


----------



## erixx (Sep 2, 2014)

Thanks a lot! Is there a way to have Intel XTU installed but not running at all when I decide, because it conflicts with Asus AI Suite "5-Way Optimization". I had a messy time uninstalling it last week because Watchdog would never stop and uninstall, unless you use machingeguns, lol.


----------



## fullinfusion (Sep 2, 2014)

Yeah just run it once then right click on the small icon beside the clock and click end.. Reboot and it won't start up.


----------



## fullinfusion (Sep 3, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Hm well im using basic turbo OC. And balanced power plan then drops to low 800mhz, @ high perf its at fixed multi while in idle but only if I disable C1E.
> 
> 
> This fixed turbo is fixed, i think its how it is no? Imo not really efficient..
> ...


I dont have that source clock tuner


----------



## fullinfusion (Sep 3, 2014)

Is it ok *safe* without degration to run the CPU Boot strap this high?


----------



## erixx (Sep 3, 2014)

With Asus M7G Uefi bios 1104 I am able to run a lot of things with 4790K@4800 Mhz (voltages tested at auto, 1,25, 1,29 and 1,30), but not to finish many tests. h-264 encode bench version 5.0.1 resets my pc just before finishing.
I have been playing around with adaptive voltage, but no change so far.

Apart, what do you guys think of the build in "Gamers Profile", that is, different speeds per core: 47, 46, 45, 44 Mhz.... ? Personally I am looking for a 24/7 solid overclock, that runs stable, cool enough, and makes sense in terms of real world performance.


----------



## fullinfusion (Sep 3, 2014)

erixx said:


> With Asus M7G Uefi bios 1104 I am able to run a lot of things with 4790K@4800 Mhz (voltages tested at auto, 1,25, 1,29 and 1,30), but not to finish many tests. h-264 encode bench version 5.0.1 resets my pc just before finishing.
> I have been playing around with adaptive voltage, but no change so far.
> 
> Apart, what do you guys think of the build in "Gamers Profile", that is, different speeds per core: 47, 46, 45, 44 Mhz.... ? Personally I am looking for a 24/7 solid overclock, that runs stable, cool enough, and makes sense in terms of real world performance.


Whats your vDIO and vAIO voltage at?
Change it to 1.250v on both and run the encoder again... I bet it passes 

And no don't use those silly profiles, you can get much better with the help from @TheHunter, @cadaveca and a few others


----------



## erixx (Sep 3, 2014)

testing that now, If I don't come back, better book a flight to a 3rd world country! LOL


----------



## erixx (Sep 3, 2014)

ok, well. Setting both analogue I/O voltage and Digital I/O voltage to 1,25v did not work with the video benchmark..

Sidenote: if I set Adaptive voltages vor Core and Alternative voltages, I have no option to set the above values. I have to go to full manual mode. Will try to leave some on auto, but set vDIO, AIO to 1,25v....


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 3, 2014)

Got a blue screen for the first time in like 4+ weeks today. Haven't changed anything. Haven't done much to investigate it yet, but thought id post it here.

0x00000019 (0x0000000000000003, 0xfffff901406c4010, 0xfffff903406c4010, 0xfffff901406c4010) Bad_Pool_Header


----------



## erixx (Sep 3, 2014)

i found a litle sweet spot at 4600, with idle low volts, etc, and pass all tests and games...
I also could run benches at 48x and fixed 1,32 v, but I want it to clock and volt down when idle.
I am still green with this processor and all the VDIO and vAIO will have to mature...


making some screenshots for you of a solid 46x OC:


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 3, 2014)

Try this,

   


EDIT: ah I thought it was you fullinfusion posting these bios screens , but still you erixx can tweak like that too 



fullinfusion said:


> Is it ok *safe* without degration to run the CPU Boot strap this high?



None, cpu is designed to run this way ..Mine doesnt want to run 125 or 169mhz for some reason, or i set it wrong.. Always fails by ram or gpu check.. <_<

Well are you sure you dont have those ohm settings, they only appear if you select main source clock, kinda like you did now when you selected 169mhz strap



erixx said:


> ok, well. Setting both analogue I/O voltage and Digital I/O voltage to 1,25v did not work with the video benchmark..
> 
> Sidenote: if I set Adaptive voltages vor Core and Alternative voltages, I have no option to set the above values. I have to go to full manual mode. Will try to leave some on auto, but set vDIO, AIO to 1,25v....


Nah you can keep vIAO alone, just vDIO but still vDIO is not the cause imo, VCCSA would be sooner or cpu current % or even Cache multi if OC'ing.




erixx said:


> With Asus M7G Uefi bios 1104 I am able to run a lot of things with 4790K@4800 Mhz (voltages tested at auto, 1,25, 1,29 and 1,30), but not to finish many tests. h-264 encode bench version 5.0.1 resets my pc just before finishing.
> I have been playing around with adaptive voltage, but no change so far.
> 
> Apart, what do you guys think of the build in "Gamers Profile", that is, different speeds per core: 47, 46, 45, 44 Mhz.... ? Personally I am looking for a 24/7 solid overclock, that runs stable, cool enough, and makes sense in terms of real world performance.


If it resets, did you try higher cpu current %? Its at auto by default in DIGI+, set to at least 120 - 130% and try again.




MxPhenom 216 said:


> Got a blue screen for the first time in like 4+ weeks today. Haven't changed anything. Haven't done much to investigate it yet, but thought id post it here.
> 
> 0x00000019 (0x0000000000000003, 0xfffff901406c4010, 0xfffff903406c4010, 0xfffff901406c4010) Bad_Pool_Header



http://aumha.org/a/stop.php#0x19

something with routers, lan drivers, even ram OC issue..



> *STOP 0x00000019: BAD_POOL_HEADER  (go to top of page)*
> Usual causes:  Device driver
> 
> MSDN Listing (Win2K ResKit):  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms818860.aspx
> ...



^
from http://www.carrona.org/bsodindx.html


----------



## erixx (Sep 3, 2014)

HAPPY  Been playing and testing hours, the whole evening, at 4800 Mhz, only remains another run of that movie bench of yours.
Aida stress fine, Grid 2 and Insurgency gaming fine (prone to crash with bad OC's). Intel burn, fine.
Temps up to 82ºC while stressing.
1,30 V "OC Voltage" + 0,05 Offset (Adaptive). I left on "auto", Mr. Asus increases it to 1,4 V which is fine for pure results, but a bit hot... lol
CPU Cache voltage, adaptive, but with 0 offset.
All others auto, apart from power 130% (thanks mate! ) and and Phase control on "optimized" (on Auto or Extreme, idling on low votlage does not work)

RAM, I have set it to 1T (stock is 2T) and increased it to 1.66 V. Results in Aida thread.


----------



## fullinfusion (Sep 4, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> EDIT: ah I thought it was you fullinfusion posting these bios screens , but still you erixx can tweak like that too
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nope there no ohm setting below the strap.
If I change the strap from 100,  167, 250 the bus changes from 100 to 99.8 but alternates with what setting I chose. I can run any strap except the 250 one lol... The memory starts at 3000and goes over 5000+ so I didn't even bother. The 167 strap was easy. I found you need to lower the memory or set it as close to its rated speed and loosen the timings a tad. Also the cpu cache multi needs to be dropped to because its just like the cpu multi. It almost caught me off guard but Dave said to watch for it because it will change and will need to be lowered to the 4ghz mark. I sure find the system snappy as all hell running the bus at 167 vs the 100mhz setting. The bios on restart did its thing when I clicked save and boot.. It took 3 power up and down modes I guess setting the frequency's then boot up was painless.


----------



## erixx (Sep 4, 2014)

erixx said:


> HAPPY  Been playing and testing hours, the whole evening, at 4800 Mhz, only remains another run of that movie bench of yours.
> Aida stress fine, Grid 2 and Insurgency gaming fine (prone to crash with bad OC's). Intel burn, fine.
> Temps up to 82ºC while stressing.
> 1,30 V "OC Voltage" + 0,05 Offset (Adaptive). I left on "auto", Mr. Asus increases it to 1,4 V which is fine for pure results, but a bit hot... lol
> ...



I quote myself to avoid confussion. Above settings are fine, BUT i did NOT PASS the x264_Benchmark_HD_v5.0.1.  Not sure if I should just leave it this way, untill I find a more annoying problem...


----------



## fullinfusion (Sep 4, 2014)

@erixx ditch that x-264 encoder. I seen ppl complaining that the latest version is buggy as all hell.

How about XTU stress or AIDA64 stress can it pass an hour or more?


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## TheHunter (Sep 4, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> Nope there no ohm setting below the strap.
> If I change the strap from 100,  167, 250 the bus changes from 100 to 99.8 but alternates with what setting I chose. I can run any strap except the 250 one lol... The memory starts at 3000and goes over 5000+ so I didn't even bother. The 167 strap was easy. I found you need to lower the memory or set it as close to its rated speed and loosen the timings a tad. Also the cpu cache multi needs to be dropped to because its just like the cpu multi. It almost caught me off guard but Dave said to watch for it because it will change and will need to be lowered to the 4ghz mark. I sure find the system snappy as all hell running the bus at 167 vs the 100mhz setting. The bios on restart did its thing when I clicked save and boot.. It took 3 power up and down modes I guess setting the frequency's then boot up was painless.




Well you need to first set 100mhz in it then it will show up.. At least that's what it does here..

Cache it depends, mine starts to get wonky at 4.3ghz +, had at 4.4ghz but it was kinda all over the place.. Got lower benchmark scores instead of higher, guess i didnt feed enough volts and or it just doesnt want to go over 4.2ghz @ 4.7ghz+ cpu multi.


Btw i replied your mail


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## TheHunter (Sep 4, 2014)

erixx said:


> HAPPY  Been playing and testing hours, the whole evening, at 4800 Mhz, only remains another run of that movie bench of yours.
> Aida stress fine, Grid 2 and Insurgency gaming fine (prone to crash with bad OC's). Intel burn, fine.
> Temps up to 82ºC while stressing.
> 1,30 V "OC Voltage" + 0,05 Offset (Adaptive). I left on "auto", Mr. Asus increases it to 1,4 V which is fine for pure results, but a bit hot... lol
> ...




Dont keep voltage @ auto with adaptive, its the same as if you used default auto.  By total turbo voltage enter your stable fixed voltage, now it will boost to that max.


Same by cache, but then again if you used fixed cache it won't matter much, it will run at same voltage all the time.. If you set minimum cache multi to 35 and max ie 40x it will now lower accordingly.


Idk if you found your fixed cpu voltage @ x264 ie 1.30v use this voltage, but dont stress test anymore with it or it WILL overvolt for 0.09v, 1.30 will become 1.39v. Same by Aida64 stress test even at just ram testing - no avx involved.

x264fhd is ok for stress testing, dunno about x264 5.05? benchmark.
http://downloads.guru3d.com/x264-FHD-Benchmark-v1.0.1-64bit-download-2825.html


as for 1T you can keep ram voltage at same 1.65v.


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## fullinfusion (Sep 4, 2014)

Why adaptive, why not offset?


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## TheHunter (Sep 4, 2014)

Because its better and no need to fiddle until you find the right offset voltage. Also offset will raise its default base multi voltage and you dont really want that.. Unless you really need to but you can always use a combo of both.

For example 

cpu offset 0.010v
additional turbo voltage 1.25v

total adaptive turbo voltage 1.260v  (0.010 + 1.250v)


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## fullinfusion (Sep 4, 2014)

im just using offset at 0.005
and under full demand the vcore hits the same voltage I had keyed in when in manual mode.

Edit.....


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## erixx (Sep 4, 2014)

just to update you, thank you a lot! This is not over, because, without apparent reason, this evening nothing works! Not 48x, not 47x... Just gone back to auto-ALL to enter here...   Maybe it is the heatwave we have here in the Iberian Peninsula, constantly high temps, and AirCo demanding also un upgrade to 64bit! LOL
We will keep this going...


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## fullinfusion (Sep 4, 2014)

erixx said:


> just to update you, thank you a lot! This is not over, because, without apparent reason, this evening nothing works! Not 48x, not 47x... Just gone back to auto-ALL to enter here...   Maybe it is the heatwave we have here in the Iberian Peninsula, constantly high temps, and AirCo demanding also un upgrade to 64bit! LOL
> We will keep this going...


Reflash the bios! Asus bioses flake out generally after 8-10 bsod's

If you have saved a few overclock profiles save them to a jump drive then load optimized settings, enter to restart and go back into the bios and flash the bios chip.

Be just like new again


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## Skywalker12345 (Sep 4, 2014)

Hello everyone its been a while since i have been able to get back into OCing! Finally got around to ordering the following:

ASUS Z97I-PLUS LGA 1150 Mini ITX & i5-4460

Please point me in the right direction for a newb Haswell OCer, ive had experience with AMD in the past but no Intel CPUs.

Also i have a stock CPU cooler ATM (i know this is not sufficient i am planning on upgrading ASAP)

Thanks!


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## fullinfusion (Sep 5, 2014)

Well got my low volt c-states working and stable as can be 

@TheHunter  thanks for all the added settings I need to change. You were right, some settings were just set to high for no reason


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## Kursah (Sep 5, 2014)

@lucasweir 

Well, you might be able to BCLK that chip, but only chips with the K at the end of their model are allowed to be overclocked with unlocked multipliers. And if you do go and buy a K-series chip I also recommend spending the extra $25-ish on the Intel Performance Tuning plan, because your warranty is void as soon as you OC beyond turbo speeds without it.


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## fullinfusion (Sep 5, 2014)

This cpu strap at least gives me some freedom like my ol AMD rigs for bus speed enhancements..

This is nice! I've been playing with this setting all night and not a single crash.

Ill post the bios screen shots for others if you guys want to give it a go.

One note I must add is it sure beats the 100mhz bus intel has on these chips..

Snappy as a mofo to say the least


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## TheHunter (Sep 5, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> Reflash the bios! Asus bioses flake out generally after 8-10 bsod's
> 
> If you have saved a few overclock profiles save them to a jump drive then load optimized settings, enter to restart and go back into the bios and flash the bios chip.
> 
> Be just like new again


This, but usually its enough to reset bios to optimized defaults, apply (reboot) and re-apply your OC.


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## fullinfusion (Sep 9, 2014)

I did it, I FUCKING DID IT!!!! 

I benched Cinibench @ 5GHz!!! and it passed!

It may not be a big deal to all, but to me, what an accomplishment! 
Want bios shot's let me know


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## fullinfusion (Sep 10, 2014)

Kinda funny, I reset the bios and decided to run stock with low power enabled.

Look at the voltage vs the core clocks.

I don't even need that voltage @ 4.7ghz and this is at stock!!!

@asus #asus wtf programmers?


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## fullinfusion (Sep 13, 2014)

Asus Maximus Formula VI owners, a new bios is out. 

I hope the multi is fixed this time


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## fullinfusion (Sep 13, 2014)

Ok a bit of an update on this bios.

From what I've seen so far there's lots of added features in the DIGI+ Power control section.
Theres a new memory timing control called Latency compensator
In CPU power management (advanced) New CFG Lock??? whatever that is??
And biggest thing I see is core voltage in windows is a lot tighter and not bouncing around like it used to.

Will add more when I find more new options 

Edit look how tight the cpu core is now! LLC is at 6

Just at Idle






Under load






Sorry here's the cpu-z on this bios


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## fullinfusion (Sep 13, 2014)

Have to share another DP

Low Power states work despite not being set in the control panel.

I have mine set to MAX Performance and all I must say is NICE!!

Idle is 4.0GHz and turbos up to 4.4ghz. Low volt is 0.320 @ 4.2ghz

This is stock setting, Load Optimized settings, nothing else changed..

Kudo's to you @asus


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 13, 2014)

Nice to see they've finally getting a handle on it


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## fullinfusion (Sep 13, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> Nice to see they've finally getting a handle on it


Yes but my 4.8Ghz setting is gone with the wind over the 1505 bios, I think I have it figured out but until morning I cant be sure.

But then again I'm using the 166.6 cpu strap lol and had to lower the memory to 2332MHz and use your 2400MHz timings... 11-13-13-35-2T ext ext.........

So far so good, I never had all that much luck using the 125 strap but if you send me those Avexir 3000+MHz sticks I can try the 250 cpu strap... If I remember the lowest memory setting on it is 3000MHz and goes over 6k lol


----------



## fullinfusion (Sep 13, 2014)

Bios is good but we need some time to tweak it . The same settings with the 1505 bios dont work all that well with the new bios .

Asus did an ok job when the original bios programmer was there but no longer works for Asus...  the new guy writing code is learning, to say the least!  and I say that loosely... So Step it up guy! OC OC OC!

Your company depends on it.

Oh a side note all these BSOD don't need to be re-flashed as often... It's not as flaky as the previous version so yeah keep up the good work Asus bios man!


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 13, 2014)

^
Yeah i noticed that too, newer had to use diff. settings.



I saw there is also one for my Deluxe too, same 4tb and optimized OC function.. But i didnt update yet, guess i'll give it a try soon


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 15, 2014)

I didnt have anything new in DIGI+

but I also saw this CFG lock, what is this, its disabled by default?









EDIT: made a quick google and something about native kernel boot, so its best at disabled..
http://www.tonymacx86.com/bios-uefi...updates-msr-unlocked-boots-native-kernel.html


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## fullinfusion (Sep 15, 2014)

@TheHunter Did you get any other memory options in the timings department?


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## TheHunter (Sep 17, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> @TheHunter Did you get any other memory options in the timings department?




Hm dunno, will have another peek now. 


I think its all the same

   



Bandwidth looks the same too, although L3 read cache was a bit slow (had one screen with 240gb/s), maybe cause iRST C0 didnt fully kick in yet, I ran it right by log on.


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 23, 2014)

Well fail, wish i never updated to this bios..

So many bsod its redicilous..


kernel exception code,  kernel mode trap, kernel this kernel that..

latest one indicated  memory oc issue 0x7F this bug trap.. Can it be because of this native kernel by C-states, this new setting, should I enable that lock bit or not?


@ Cadaveca
Can too low vDIO cause it too?


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 23, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> @ Cadaveca
> Can too low vDIO cause it too?





Yep. Push it up a bit.


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 23, 2014)

Ok will try tomorrow, I just tested windows memory diagnostic 5 rounds and it came clean..

Funny though I had vDIO 0.115v+ @ 4.7ghz with older bios and it was fine before..

Should I raise vccsa too or keep it as it is @ 0.040v + offset?


----------



## cadaveca (Sep 23, 2014)

Hard to say. I'd look @ up to 1.25V DIO, and probably around 1.05-1.15V or so for 2400 MHz with all slots full. If you already have that level of VCCSA, I'd play wit hvDIO a bit, then try VCCSA boost. Might want to consider pushing vAIO close to vDIO, too.


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 23, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> Hard to say. I'd look @ up to 1.25V DIO, and probably around 1.05-1.15V or so for 2400 MHz with all slots full. If you already have that level of VCCSA, I'd play wit hvDIO a bit, then try VCCSA boost. Might want to consider pushing vAIO close to vDIO, too.




Im now at 0.125v+ offset, Idk whats the exact vDIO value though (mobo doesn't show it like ROG bios)..  I always kept vAIO @ auto.

If I used ram current @ 120% I could keep both vDIO & vAIO @ auto, only VCCSA 0.055v+ offset, now with ram current @110% & manual vDIO I could lower VCCSA a bit  @ 0.040v+  by 2400mhz OC with all 4 slots populated.


Will see how this 0.125v goes, so vAIO should be 0.050v+  lower or higher? 



EDIT: well I gave up, higher VDIO heats alot, so I returned to my oldies goldies setting

vDIO @ auto, ram current 120% and Vccsa 0.050v+. 

Also newest bios seems to use lower LLC and had to raise vccin to 1.77v instead of 1.75 or 1.76v., could have random resets at higher load.


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## fullinfusion (Sep 27, 2014)

I found out that the new MFIV board has updated auto clock settings upto 4.8 and a good thing it dont go above 1.30V. 

Asus keep it going, your almost there... 1.250 v for 4.8 manual for my chip..


----------



## BQQSTED (Oct 2, 2014)

Hey guys! First post here.  Originally was able to get my 4770k and Asus Hero to pass 10 loops of X264 with the setting below

bios 804
x47
vid 1.37
cache x34
ring 1.2
vccin 1.9
mem 1600
1.5

During this time I decided to upgrade to a Maximus Extreme and go acrylic tubing so my rig has been sitting for a couple months.  Not sure if it's because of all the extra settings the M6E comes with. but I BSOD x124 immediately when I start x264.
I've done 20 loops successfully so far.

bios 1603
x45
vid 1.25
cache x34
vccin 1.8
mem 1500
1.5v


Current x45 settings













I did some lurking in this thread and made some changes to my x46 profile. With the new settings below, I bsod'd prior to win login with vid of 1.25. 1.3 still locks up on first loop










Am I headed in the right direction?


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## TheHunter (Oct 5, 2014)

@ 4.6ghz did  you try with VRM cpu phase control @ auto instead of optimized and maybe  ram current to 110%, also vccsa  raise its offset voltage form 0.040v or 0.050v+


Also why cache so low,    keep @ auto 39x?

and do try to OC in XMP mode instead of manual, probably ram fault not using right advanced timings..


----------



## BQQSTED (Oct 5, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> @ 4.6ghz did  you try with VRM cpu phase control @ auto instead of optimized and maybe  ram current to 110%, also vccsa  raise its offset voltage form 0.040v or 0.050v+
> 
> 
> Also why cache so low,    keep @ auto 39x?
> ...


Thanks for the reply! I'll give those settings a try.
The reason for the cache is to cancel it out while I try to find my max core speed then cache, then memory.


----------



## BQQSTED (Oct 5, 2014)

Still 124.  Maybe bad chip?


----------



## TheHunter (Oct 5, 2014)

Then give it more even cpuv, another 0.005v+


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## BQQSTED (Oct 6, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Then give it more even cpuv, another 0.005v+


Still 124. I've tried as high as 1.4v with vccin of 2.1. Still 124. Weird! I may just stick with x45 for now until I get a 4790k. If I can at least get past this, I won't have to upgrade even though upgrading isn't a bad idea either


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 9, 2014)

Skyrim keeps locking up for me, and am 99% sure its not because of my GPU because I am not getting driver unresponsive errors, and it happens when my GPU is at stock. Screen just freezes up. However i can do CTRL ALT DEL and restart my system. So I am not sure if its the just game messing up (I have a ton of mods installed, but they shouldnt be causing this honestly), or if it something to do with my CPU/Memory. I got this same issue back when I was working on 4.5GHZ on my CPU and was getting lock ups in BF4. I have it at 4.4GHZ 1.295vcore, not sure on the rest. I can get that tomorrow if you guys need it to help me out a bit.


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## BQQSTED (Oct 9, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Skyrim keeps locking up for me, and am 99% sure its not because of my GPU because I am not getting driver unresponsive errors, and it happens when my GPU is at stock. Screen just freezes up. However i can do CTRL ALT DEL and restart my system. So I am not sure if its the just game messing up (I have a ton of mods installed, but they shouldnt be causing this honestly), or if it something to do with my CPU/Memory. I got this same issue back when I was working on 4.5GHZ on my CPU and was getting lock ups in BF4. I have it at 4.4GHZ 1.295vcore, not sure on the rest. I can get that tomorrow if you guys need it to help me out a bit.


What happens if you run stock clocks on your cpu? Does it still lock up?


----------



## BQQSTED (Oct 9, 2014)

So I'm starting to think my bsod problem isn't voltage related. Upping the volts should clear the 124. I'm starting to think it may be driver related somehow. I noticed I had an unknown device in device manager. Turns out it was the asus temp probe monitor or  ACPI\PNP0A0A. I'll try again tonight!


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 9, 2014)

BQQSTED said:


> What happens if you run stock clocks on your cpu? Does it still lock up?


Haven't tried, but talked to @cadaveca and said I should try increase VCCSA or Memory. Just bumped VCCSA from +0.045 to +0.050.

Also here is a screen shot of all my voltages for everyone. @TheHunter

I thought maybe it was my eventual input voltage, but its already at 1.91v, which might be higher than i remember needing to running for 1.295v for 4.4GHZ.


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 9, 2014)

Could even be that eventual voltage is too high, although you'd think that that would cause other problems than an app crash. Could simply be a driver problem you are dealing with.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 9, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> Could even be that eventual voltage is too high, although you'd think that that would cause other problems than an app crash. Could simply be a driver problem you are dealing with.



I dont get an app crash error, it just locks up and i have to CTRL ALT DEL to reboot. I can't get Task Manager to come up to end the Skyrim Task. It just sits there with an icon in the bottom tool bar but the Task manager window wont actually show up.

I think after doing some reading, its likely not from system instability but the 81 mods i have installed for the game......

Might of fixed it with sorting my load order using LOOT (utility for Skyrim plugins) and boosting VCCSA to +0.050v.


----------



## El_Mayo (Oct 10, 2014)

Hi guys, what kinda temps do you get running Prime95 Small FFTs? I'm somewhere around the 95 degree mark and it's distressing, even at stock settings.  Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power heatsink

Thanks


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 10, 2014)

El_Mayo said:


> Hi guys, what kinda temps do you get running Prime95 Small FFTs? I'm somewhere around the 95 degree mark and it's distressing, even at stock settings.  Thermalright True Spirit 140 Power heatsink
> 
> Thanks



What version of Prime 95? Ive seen the most recent not really advised for Haswell due to the amount heat. I tend to loop a x264 benchmark for couple hours for initial stress testing, then use games, and benchmarks. 

I dont see much of a point in using a synthetic way of stressing like Prime 95, because there really isn't much out there in terms of real world, that will stress it that hard.


----------



## El_Mayo (Oct 10, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> What version of Prime 95? Ive seen the most recent not really advised for Haswell due to the amount heat. I tend to loop a x264 benchmark for couple hours for initial stress testing, then use games, and benchmarks.
> 
> I dont see much of a point in using a synthetic way of stressing like Prime 95, because there really isn't much out there in terms of real world, that will stress it that hard.



The newest one out. People were saying not to use prime as it stresses Haswell ridiculously on a few forums I found after Google searches.Is x264 a benchmark encoding H.264 video by any chance? If so that's really good cos the build is partly for editing and rendering clips is a big part of that so that's a more realistic load


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 10, 2014)

Just got a 0x0000001e BSOD. Something not handled. Memory seems to be all sorts of fubar, and this is right after a Skyrim freeze up once I was able to stop the the non responding process.

KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 10, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Just got a 0x0000001e BSOD. Something not handled. Memory seems to be all sorts of fubar, and this is right after a Skyrim freeze up once I was able to stop the the non responding process.
> 
> KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED


You could try boost vDIMM up to 1.65V and see if that helps. Seems my Samsungs took a dump recently too...I BLAME SOLAR FLARES!!!  ROFL.

At the same time, a mod for skyrim could be causing a memory leak, and that's why you had the 1e error. So maybe dump the skyrim install first, try fresh download, and see what happens. The fact you can exit the process kind of says to me there's more to this problem than how it first appears.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 11, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> You could try boost vDIMM up to 1.65V and see if that helps. Seems my Samsungs took a dump recently too...I BLAME SOLAR FLARES!!!  ROFL.
> 
> At the same time, a mod for skyrim could be causing a memory leak, and that's why you had the 1e error. So maybe dump the skyrim install first, try fresh download, and see what happens. The fact you can exit the process kind of says to me there's more to this problem than how it first appears.



I had my DIMMs at 1.65v already. Something is definitely up. Gonna be doing a lot of investigation tonight. Maybe first step would be too disable ENB first. If it still occurs, disable all my esp plugins for skyrim and see if it still happens. If that all doesnt work, I will look into other things.

EDIT: Its not the ENB causing the issue. Just had the freeze while I deleted everything pertaining to the ENB. Time to check for some mod conflicts then I guess.


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 11, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I had my DIMMs at 1.65v already. Something is definitely up. Gonna be doing a lot of investigation tonight. Maybe first step would be too disable ENB first. If it still occurs, disable all my esp plugins for skyrim and see if it still happens. If that all doesnt work, I will look into other things.
> 
> EDIT: Its not the ENB causing the issue. Just had the freeze while I deleted everything pertaining to the ENB. Time to check for some mod conflicts then I guess.


I don't think disabling mods is enough, just FYI. You gotta get rid of the core Skyrim, too.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 11, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> I don't think disabling mods is enough, just FYI. You gotta get rid of the core Skyrim, too.



Yeah ill look into it. I just had a thought as I was cleaning my system of dust. Seems to me that the PSU hasnt been able to breath very well. atleast a 1/4 of an inch of dust was caked on the filter for the PSU. Maybe heat of the PSU a light possibility? I just reset my BIOS. Saved the OC profile I had before. gonna test everything at stock.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 11, 2014)

So system is at stock fresh install of skyrim with all the mods reinstalled, otherwise itll CTD when I try to load a save. After all that. Stuff still freezes up. I am kind of out of ideas as to how to get this damn game to run right. Ive never have this many issues with a modded Skyrim.


----------



## TheHunter (Oct 12, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Just got a 0x0000001e BSOD. Something not handled. Memory seems to be all sorts of fubar, and this is right after a Skyrim freeze up once I was able to stop the the non responding process.
> 
> KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED




Either cache voltage too low or cache freq. too high, or you need more ram current in DIGI+.

In digi+
LLC- auto
cpu current - 120%
ram current - 110 or 120% (i have to use 120% & vccsa 0.040v offset for 4.6ghz or 0.055v+ for 4.7ghz)

I stopped having all issues when I returned to my old OC, no vDIO tweaks (guess cause i have only offset and idk what value it sets to), but i did have this BSOD too, higher input voltage seemed to help as well, although I used a lot lower then you for 4.7ghz@1.28v >> 1.75v, now 1.77v.


----------



## fullinfusion (Nov 28, 2014)

A cold night of Overclocking, I just ran Star Swarm on Steam and this is what I got,

Cpu: @4.8GHz


----------



## petedread (Nov 28, 2014)

Have got to set off to go to work. Wonder if I could save some time and a google search and just ask you guys. Is my Kingston HyperX predator 3000mhz kit single sided or double sided? It is Hynix, that was quick and easy to find out on google but I have run out of time.

http://www.legitreviews.com/kingston-hyperx-predator-ddr4-16gb-3000mhz-memory-kit-review_149960

Found this review, in case anyone is interested.


----------



## fullinfusion (Nov 28, 2014)

petedread said:


> Have got to set off to go to work. Wonder if I could save some time and a google search and just ask you guys. Is my Kingston HyperX predator 3000mhz kit single sided or double sided? It is Hynix, that was quick and easy to find out on google but I have run out of time.
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/kingston-hyperx-predator-ddr4-16gb-3000mhz-memory-kit-review_149960
> 
> Found this review, in case anyone is interested.


This isnt a DDR4 thread but hey,whatever, cool!!!! ... if I had to chime in it's single sided ram but @cadaveca would know for sure!

He's the master memory GURU of memory guru shit


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 28, 2014)

petedread said:


> Have got to set off to go to work. Wonder if I could save some time and a google search and just ask you guys. Is my Kingston HyperX predator 3000mhz kit single sided or double sided? It is Hynix, that was quick and easy to find out on google but I have run out of time.
> 
> http://www.legitreviews.com/kingston-hyperx-predator-ddr4-16gb-3000mhz-memory-kit-review_149960
> 
> Found this review, in case anyone is interested.


16 GB should be single-sided, 32 GB double-sided.


----------



## FireFox (Nov 28, 2014)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Just got a 0x0000001e BSOD. Something not handled. Memory seems to be all sorts of fubar, and this is right after a Skyrim freeze up once I was able to stop the the non responding process.
> 
> KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED



that reminds me a BSOD that i had a few days ago 

SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED

did you used some software to see what caused the BSOD?


----------



## Robert England (Dec 14, 2014)

Hey club,  I just bought my very first Pre-Built machine (always built them myself) but this time I got a DELL 7910 Workstation with a 10-core/20 Thread XEON E5-2650 V3 proc. and 32GB of DDR4-2133,  I am an Animator not really a Tech (per-se) though I have always had to be one,.  I was wondering if can someone tell me how much of a boost I can expect from this over my old hand built Asus Sabertooth X58 with a 12core i7-970 and 12GB of DDR2 (I think its DDR2..)  First,  will my Speed be Slower because I used to have the 6 core 3.2 Ghz i7-970 and now will have the 10 core 2.5ghz (3.0 Ghz in Turbo mode) E5-2650 v3.  Is it like that or am I (hopefully) misunderstanding..   I can make anything I (or a director) can think of in the mind, and I have spent quarter century getting good at Animation and visual FX,  but tech stuff has just been on the side, as needed, but I'm finally a little out of my depths.  Having skipped a generation of hardware to 'boot'!
I just hope I haven't gone backwards in any way... that's all.    I work in 3DS MAX and all the usual Hollywood media production tools, I am hoping to finally be able to build an elaborate scene and be able to render it out in less than a week. (or my golden frame rule, 'less than a minute a frame')  Also, can someone tell me how important HDD over SSD is in this case?  I have never had a HHD go bad (well, maybe one after 12 years)  but 2 of my SSD's have gone bad randomly, an OCZ Vertex 1,  so I got an OCZ Vertex 2 , it went bad And now I have a Vertex 3 (a trend!) LOL.  Somehow the SSD made the machine cost like $6000 more so I went for a 2 TB SATA (probably only 12GB/sec) but I hope it will serve me well as I create my worlds.  I have skipped a whole generation of DDR (3) I never did that before, and it looks like the 7910 just came out 3 months ago, I hope I made a good decision for an animator., It looks like my motherboard can take another processor (I hope) and it can take 1000GB of DDR4-2133.  I hope my 32GB is enough.  I am used to having 8GB for years then 12GB for last 3 years, 32 seems like a lot to me, 1000 seems crazy LOL  Thank you in advance,  Is it a good machine I... (here I would usually say I Built)   Ordered..  ;~)   I am prepared to download something and post results if anybody is curious but it doesn't get here for a while (Early January) (they sure take a while to build it, I always built my in an afternoon,..) LOL  Also, anybody think it may be possible to overclock a 7910 with these parts?  I already have a water cool system (heck they're like $70 now, I got one for the i7-970 and it nearly hovers at room temp on the auto 3.6 Ghz overclock setting!)  Thanks for Any and ALL advice, info, suggestions and warnings,  I'm a little nervous getting such an expensive machine (the retail total before some nice discounts was right around $5500-$6000, I have never spent that much maybe on all my computers put together LOL (well, except for all the QUADRO CARDS, I'm sure you feel me there...)  also,  I got the lowest end card DELL offered, some Quadro NVS 512MB or something.. I'm putting in my existing QUADRO K4000, then recycling my QUADRO FX 4600 back into its long time home the i7-970 Sabertooth! :")  Anyone see a problem with the card in this machine?  I wanted to lower the price so I could get a little beter proc (the 10 core instead of the 6)  It sure will be nice to see 20 render Threads on one machine while Rendering in 3ds Max!


----------



## Solaris17 (Dec 14, 2014)

Robert England said:


> Hey club,  I just bought my very first Pre-Built machine (always built them myself) but this time I got a DELL 7910 Workstation with a 10-core/20 Thread XEON E5-2650 V3 proc. and 32GB of DDR4-2133,  I am an Animator not really a Tech (per-se) though I have always had to be one,.  I was wondering if can someone tell me how much of a boost I can expect from this over my old hand built Asus Sabertooth X58 with a 12core i7-970 and 12GB of DDR2 (I think its DDR2..)  First,  will my Speed be Slower because I used to have the 6 core 3.2 Ghz i7-970 and now will have the 10 core 2.5ghz (3.0 Ghz in Turbo mode) E5-2650 v3.  Is it like that or am I (hopefully) misunderstanding..   I can make anything I (or a director) can think of in the mind, and I have spent quarter century getting good at Animation and visual FX,  but tech stuff has just been on the side, as needed, but I'm finally a little out of my depths.  Having skipped a generation of hardware to 'boot'!
> I just hope I haven't gone backwards in any way... that's all.    I work in 3DS MAX and all the usual Hollywood media production tools, I am hoping to finally be able to build an elaborate scene and be able to render it out in less than a week. (or my golden frame rule, 'less than a minute a frame')  Also, can someone tell me how important HDD over SSD is in this case?  I have never had a HHD go bad (well, maybe one after 12 years)  but 2 of my SSD's have gone bad randomly, an OCZ Vertex 1,  so I got an OCZ Vertex 2 , it went bad And now I have a Vertex 3 (a trend!) LOL.  Somehow the SSD made the machine cost like $6000 more so I went for a 2 TB SATA (probably only 12GB/sec) but I hope it will serve me well as I create my worlds.  I have skipped a whole generation of DDR (3) I never did that before, and it looks like the 7910 just came out 3 months ago, I hope I made a good decision for an animator., It looks like my motherboard can take another processor (I hope) and it can take 1000GB of DDR4-2133.  I hope my 32GB is enough.  I am used to having 8GB for years then 12GB for last 3 years, 32 seems like a lot to me, 1000 seems crazy LOL  Thank you in advance,  Is it a good machine I... (here I would usually say I Built)   Ordered..  ;~)   I am prepared to download something and post results if anybody is curious but it doesn't get here for a while (Early January) (they sure take a while to build it, I always built my in an afternoon,..) LOL  Also, anybody think it may be possible to overclock a 7910 with these parts?  I already have a water cool system (heck they're like $70 now, I got one for the i7-970 and it nearly hovers at room temp on the auto 3.6 Ghz overclock setting!)  Thanks for Any and ALL advice, info, suggestions and warnings,  I'm a little nervous getting such an expensive machine (the retail total before some nice discounts was right around $5500-$6000, I have never spent that much maybe on all my computers put together LOL (well, except for all the QUADRO CARDS, I'm sure you feel me there...)  also,  I got the lowest end card DELL offered, some Quadro NVS 512MB or something.. I'm putting in my existing QUADRO K4000, then recycling my QUADRO FX 4600 back into its long time home the i7-970 Sabertooth! :")  Anyone see a problem with the card in this machine?  I wanted to lower the price so I could get a little beter proc (the 10 core instead of the 6)  It sure will be nice to see 20 render Threads on one machine while Rendering in 3ds Max!



bro walloftext.jpg line breaks please.

your 970 was DDR3 not DDR2. those SSDs had problems with their controllers back in the day (IIRC) in this case the clock speed means nothing since all of your software will benefit from the extra cores. 32gb is enough ram. I reccomend a big HDD for saving work and an SSD for the programs and OS. a better card may help you when it comes to rendering time but its all about what you want to spend.

that machine is a good step up.


----------



## Robert England (Dec 15, 2014)

Solaris17 said:


> bro walloftext.jpg line breaks please.
> 
> your 970 was DDR3 not DDR2. those SSDs had problems with their controllers back in the day (IIRC) in this case the clock speed means nothing since all of your software will benefit from the extra cores. 32gb is enough ram. I reccomend a big HDD for saving work and an SSD for the programs and OS. a better card may help you when it comes to rendering time but its all about what you want to spend.
> 
> that machine is a good step up.



That's great news thank you!  Can I ask,  would it be worth it to take my OCZ Vertex 3 SSD out of my Sabertooth and use it for my boot drive, or is it the wrong speed class (6GB/sec as opposed to 12GB/sec) or any other issue, (like the Controllers you mentioned, are they finally fixed in my Vertex 3?)   It seems pretty happy in my Sabertooth MB,  giving a 7.9 out of 7.9 windows index #...
Also, do I need to secure erase the Vertex 3 or can I just fresh windows install over what is there and be ok in the Dell?    Although I use one now I had planned to basically forego all things SSD forever because OCZ made it all all such a technical nightmare..

Could I get away with just treating it like a HDD for the Dell? (???)  Sure would be nice to just buy stuff that works without having to spend 99% percent of my time trying to get the darn ridiculous hardware happy and 1% of time actually Animating and speaking to my future.

I  kinf of see what you're saying about clock speed vs. Threads, BUT,  3DS MAX will use all the threads when rendering, wouldn't it be way faster to have a faster clock speed?  Its all so confusing, and it never gets any easier!  LOL
Thanks

What does the 'wall of text.jpg' thing mean?  Did I write too much again?   Every year that goes by I notice more and more people saying things like that:
'omg that text is too much' and 'those emails are too big, will take me a year to read that'..
It must be a generational thing,  I never minded reading complete information regardless of format or length.
People lately also don't like sitting through anything longer than a few seconds in a tv show or movie either,  resulting in what looks to me like a 2-hour Strobe Light, not a thought provoking and soul enriching movie.  We have lost much.  To me line breaks are merely introduced, empty unnecessary space.  Info is info, empty space is empty space.


----------



## Robert England (Dec 25, 2014)

I guess I used to many words,  I will try to make it simpler ... I have a New DELL T7910 Dell Precision.,   it has a XEON E5 2650 v3. I got the 32GB DDRF4-2133 package.  It says it is a 2.3Ghz proc,  can someone tell me:
1) what is the upper-limit speed I might be able to achieve by overclocking it?   and
2) How to Overclock? I mean what is the first step,  I posted here 2 weeks ago, but all I was told is that I typed too much......     Just this once could you look at some text, infer meaning from its layout and definitions,  and respond with what you know on the subject?   Just as I do when I am asked about something I know about (Science, Animation, Programming, Visual FX,) 
                             I mean This IS the right place and the right Time,.,,  So whats the problem?  Wall of text.  Jeez.  If not here then where?!?!


----------



## TheHunter (Dec 26, 2014)

Robert England said:


> I guess I used to many words,  I will try to make it simpler ... I have a New DELL T7910 Dell Precision.,   it has a XEON E5 2650 v3. I got the 32GB DDRF4-2133 package.  It says it is a 2.3Ghz proc,  can someone tell me:
> 1) what is the upper-limit speed I might be able to achieve by overclocking it?   and
> 2) How to Overclock? I mean what is the first step,  I posted here 2 weeks ago, but all I was told is that I typed too much......     Just this once could you look at some text, infer meaning from its layout and definitions,  and respond with what you know on the subject?   Just as I do when I am asked about something I know about (Science, Animation, Programming, Visual FX,)
> I mean This IS the right place and the right Time,.,,  So whats the problem?  Wall of text.  Jeez.  If not here then where?!?!



Looks like you have a 10core cpu in it, max turbo clock 3ghz.
http://ark.intel.com/products/81705/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2650-v3-25M-Cache-2_30-GHz
So max multi would be 3ghz, if you use something like "Multicore enhancement" in bios/uefi, it will boost all 10cores @ 3ghz instead only a few..


Plus maybe bclk OC a little, not much though..

From Anadtech review


> *Overclocking...?*
> As per Intel's Xeon policy, the E5-26xx v3 processors are multiplier locked. For competitive overclockers, this is rather frustrating given that the Xeon processor line are often the better selected dies that also can pack a punch. So while multiplier overclocking is not possible, for motherboards with overclocking oriented BIOS options we can adjust the BCLK. While we never published the data at the time, the Ivy Bridge-EP processors we had in to test were good for 113 MHz (+13%), although 110 MHz had a good balance of overclock and stability.
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/8584/...-e5-2650-v3-review-haswell-ep-with-10-cores/2


----------



## Robert England (Dec 26, 2014)

TheHunter said:


> Looks like you have a 10core cpu in it, max turbo clock 3ghz.
> http://ark.intel.com/products/81705/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2650-v3-25M-Cache-2_30-GHz
> So max multi would be 3ghz, if you use something like "Multicore enhancement" in bios/uefi, it will boost all 10cores @ 3ghz instead only a few..
> 
> ...


3GhZ would be great!  A better answer than I expected frankly.   3gHz that would be about where I am at now in terms of clock speed.. (of course I know the whole thing is way faster because its a generation newer than my i7-970 6 core, with more bandwidth and data channels etc.)  but that is a worthy 'oc'  goal!
Can you tell me , where I would be able to change to that speed,  in my BIOS or ?  Is the 'multicore enhancement' a part of the BIOS? 
THANKS!


----------



## Toothless (Dec 26, 2014)

Time for me to join the club!


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## TheHunter (Dec 26, 2014)

Robert England said:


> 3GhZ would be great!  A better answer than I expected frankly.   3gHz that would be about where I am at now in terms of clock speed.. (of course I know the whole thing is way faster because its a generation newer than my i7-970 6 core, with more bandwidth and data channels etc.)  but that is a worthy 'oc'  goal!
> Can you tell me , where I would be able to change to that speed,  in my BIOS or ?  Is the 'multicore enhancement' a part of the BIOS?
> THANKS!



Hm, guess not.. I found this in one thread;



> Multi Core Support
> Intel Speed Step
> C States
> Limit CPUID Value
> ...




In uefi/bios check for Intel TurboBoost cpu multipler if you have it, also update to latest A02 just in case if its not already. 

And you can disable C1E state,, but switch to balanced power plan in windows or it will run at max fixed freq. all the time then.


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## fullinfusion (Dec 26, 2014)

Toothless said:


> Time for me to join the club!


And what ya getting for clocks bulbie?


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## Toothless (Dec 26, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> And what ya getting for clocks bulbie?


4ghz stock, while bumping the turbo up .1ghz. Not much I know but I didn't get the best of chips. Highest my vcore gets is 1.268v. Max of 80c in OCCT after a bit.


----------



## fullinfusion (Dec 26, 2014)

Toothless said:


> 4ghz stock, while bumping the turbo up .1ghz. Not much I know but I didn't get the best of chips. Highest my vcore gets is 1.268v. Max of 80c in OCCT after a bit.


If you clear the cmos and then go into the bios and select LOAD OPTIMIZED SETTINGS / save and re-boot into the bios, what is the cpu voltage showing?

That can let us know what type of bin you have and maybe help cooling that sucker down a bit with some tweaks 

Also that voltage is way to high for stock volts, you can drop it down


----------



## Toothless (Dec 26, 2014)

fullinfusion said:


> If you clear the cmos and then go into the bios and select LOAD OPTIMIZED SETTINGS / save and re-boot into the bios, what is the cpu voltage showing?
> 
> That can let us know what type of bin you have and maybe help cooling that sucker down a bit with some tweaks
> 
> Also that voltage is way to high for stock volts, you can drop it down


The voltage is stock thru and thru. When I first got it, the CPU was running at 1.46v. Updated the BIOS and went down to what it is now. OneMoar sat there helping me with getting it to run as well as it does now.


----------



## cadaveca (Dec 27, 2014)

Toothless said:


> The voltage is stock thru and thru. When I first got it, the CPU was running at 1.46v. Updated the BIOS and went down to what it is now. OneMoar sat there helping me with getting it to run as well as it does now.


You must understand that stock voltage is usually 1.0xx, not 1.4xx. This 1.4xx vastly exceeds what even Intel says stock voltage is, so there is either

a: some mis-communication on what voltages you are reading (understandable since this new Haswell platform is unlike any in the past)

b: a problem with your motherboard

C: a problem with your CPU.

1.46 is not a valid stock voltage, at all. So when people have questions about this, that is why.


----------



## Toothless (Dec 27, 2014)

cadaveca said:


> You must understand that stock voltage is usually 1.0xx, not 1.4xx. This 1.4xx vastly exceeds what even Intel says stock voltage is, so there is either
> 
> a: some mis-communication on what voltages you are reading (understandable since this new Haswell platform is unlike any in the past)
> 
> ...


Well I'm sure opening Chrome and hitting 90c isn't a good thing. That's what I was getting over RealTemp and Speedfan. A BIOS update fixed that. (CPU-Z is where I get my voltage readings)

The BIOS was on version F3, so I had to bump it to F5, and only then was it "normal" voltages. 

Also PM time.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 31, 2015)

Wrong thread for your post.

This is for the 4000 series Intel CPUs based on Has well technology not the old Gulftown. Nice oc tho! I had a beastly i5 760 @ 4.0 before I went Haswell.

Edit. You should start your own thread to get assistance so we don't take this one off topic.


----------



## fullinfusion (Feb 7, 2015)

My chilled water cooling system works quite well


----------



## fullinfusion (Feb 12, 2015)

Hey guys to save me a crap pile of reading through this thread Id like to ask, what would cause cold boot BSOD?

More like windows boots up but a 1 min or so the rig will freeze and I need to hit the reset button.
Once rebooted there is no issues. What voltage should I look at raising?

Thanks in advance


----------



## TheHunter (Feb 12, 2015)

Could be ram current issue, in DIGI+ maybe raise from stock 100% to 110 or 120%..

Or maybe input voltage too low or C-states issue >> do you have them enabled or at auto?


EDIT: what bsod code, 0x124 or 0x101 or even 0x7E / 0x7B?


----------



## fullinfusion (Feb 13, 2015)

TheHunter said:


> Could ram current issue, in DIGI+ maybe raise from stock 100% to 110 or 120%..
> 
> Or maybe input voltage too low or C-states issue >> do you have them enabled or at auto?
> 
> ...


I think the memory being set @ 1.63v might be the issue. I put it back upto 1.65v and will see what happens.

Also @TheHunter I didnt catch the code this time around... Memory is set to 110% and C-states are on auto but windows power option was set to max performance but I was using the low power setting in the bios.


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## TheHunter (Feb 13, 2015)

fullinfusion said:


> I think the memory being set @ 1.63v might be the issue. I put it back upto 1.65v and will see what happens.
> 
> Also @TheHunter I didnt catch the code this time around... Memory is set to 110% and C-states are on auto but windows power option was set to max performance but I was using the low power setting in the bios.


Yeah it looks like its memory voltage then.

btw 1.65v won't hurt or raise temps, from what I saw its "ok" up to 1.70v.


When you say low power setting, you mean that EPU power saving mode? I saw its off by default.
Well this could cause it too, although I never tested it to see if it causes instability.


C-states @ auto are usually off, at least that's what I saw by my mobo and one HeroVI, Formula VI. 

I let mine control with iRST, balanced C3, High perf. C0


----------



## fullinfusion (Feb 13, 2015)

TheHunter said:


> Yeah it looks like its memory voltage then.
> 
> btw 1.65v won't hurt or raise temps, from what I saw its "ok" up to 1.70v.
> 
> ...


I have a low power setting in the bios where I use offset as the low level clock of 800mhz and have a high power setting where it's a straight 1.1850 cpu voltage setting.

When benching I load the high level and when just surfing and such I take advantage of the low volts setting.


----------



## TheHunter (Feb 14, 2015)

Ok, I just use balanced to take advantage of low freq/ low voltage and high perf. for full freq. and voltage.


btw about EPU, 

I enabled it now and  it also lowers SVID - input voltage when idle, 1.71v vs 1.79v.


----------



## vega22 (Feb 14, 2015)

without the bsod code we are just taking wild stabs in the dark dude.

my money would be ram, but^^^^


----------



## fullinfusion (Feb 14, 2015)

The rig  crashed the night before last when it was at idle. It was low power kernel the code said.  I ended up leaving the same programs up and running last night and I woke to no issues at all.  I ended up raising the input CPU voltage  from 1.72 to 1.75 and I'm hoping that was the problem.


----------



## TheHunter (Feb 15, 2015)

Yeah I think its both, ram voltage too low and input voltage too low for that kind of OC.

vccin 1.75 -1.77v should be ok up to ~1.28v if you use "max" LLC, asus recommends to use AUTO LLC now which is apparently highest anyway.  If 1.77v still isn't enough then 1.79v for sure


----------



## fullinfusion (Feb 17, 2015)

TheHunter said:


> Yeah I think its both, ram voltage too low and input voltage too low for that kind of OC.
> 
> vccin 1.75 -1.77v should be ok up to ~1.28v if you use "max" LLC, asus recommends to use AUTO LLC now which is apparently highest anyway.  If 1.77v still isn't enough then 1.79v for sure


Thanks man, yeah LLC has been on auto forever. I'll see tomorrow if the rig flakes out just after boot up. I totally forgot that this bios weirds out after half a dozen blue screens and I need to re-flash to bring it back to 100%... Something I totally blanked out on. The bios froze up the other day and the last time that happened the system wasn't stable at all until I flashed the bios again.. Reflash time.


----------



## Toothless (Feb 22, 2015)

Sooo question. What is the normal voltage for the 4790k to run at on 4ghz?


----------



## cadaveca (Feb 22, 2015)

Toothless said:


> Sooo question. What is the normal voltage for the 4790k to run at on 4ghz?


say around 1.1V to 1.15V


----------



## Toothless (Feb 22, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> say around 1.1V to 1.15V


Well my BIOS goof'd and it was running at 1.071v and now it doesn't turbo correctly.


----------



## fullinfusion (Feb 24, 2015)

Toothless said:


> Well my BIOS goof'd and it was running at 1.071v and now it doesn't turbo correctly.


Then clear the CMOS, load optimized settings tab, click enter, reboot and problem solved


----------



## LagunaX (Mar 30, 2015)

Haven't been here for a while, but I've changed my Haswell Stress Testing slightly.

I use 2 tests now, x264 Stability Test V2 or the Asus ROG RealBench Stress Test:

A) x264 Stability Test V2:
https://mega.co.nz/#!3tAGnAqZ!QbCz2r1fG0WjM8DgGYeExngGypaHftAzPUgTSn2kAdk
I run either 8 loops (1 hour) or 16 loops (2 hours) 64 bit with 16 threads.

1) Extract the zip file.
2) Open this folder twice: x264 Stability Test V2
3) Do not open the test file, just double click on either:
x264 Stability Test (32bit - log) for 32 bit systems
or
x264 Stability Test (64bit - log) for 64 bit systems
4) The +log .bat files are if you want to name a log file to be saved, - is just to run the test without a log file.





B) Asus ROG RealBench Stress Test:
http://rog.asus.com/file/?download=RealBench_v2.41.zip
Pick the Stress test (default is benchmark), input your RAM,  and then select for an hour or 2.




It doesn't say anything if you pass, but will let you know in the bottom left corner if you fail.
The Asus ROG RealBench Stress Test is just as stressful and runs slightly higher load temps, maybe a tad more stressful as it might multitask stress a bit more than x264 V2.

Enjoy!


----------



## TheHunter (Jun 27, 2015)

Well after all this time I can safely say bios 2103 is bad, one earlier I think beta 2004 was a lot better.

I have to use stock ran 2133mhz and higher cache voltage to keep it stable. Before cache 4.2ghz 1.145v, now 1.17v.. (or auto, which makes total ~ 1.21v by full load)

Also noticed asus changed ram timings - made them more loose and still can't keep my ram OC @ 2400mhz like before,. This is @ 4.7ghz, cache 4.2ghz and no go, even  at 4.1ghz..


----------



## v12dock (Jul 6, 2015)

45c @ 1.305v 4.5Ghz

Delid + liquid pro+ lapped heatspreader


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 7, 2015)

v12dock said:


> 45c @ 1.305v 4.5Ghz
> 
> Delid + liquid pro+ lapped heatspreader


Nice job, what grit of paper did ya finish it off with?


----------



## v12dock (Jul 7, 2015)

fullinfusion said:


> Nice job, what grit of paper did ya finish it off with?



2000 and polishing compound


----------



## johnspack (Jul 7, 2015)

Still trying to figure this out...  I built a friend a system with a 4690k and a hyper evo 212.  Eventually he'll want to oc,  and he'll get me to do it.  How much can I expect with this setup with a well ventilated case?
Don't have a haswell myself,  so I don't have a lot of experience.  Safe to leave it at 4ghz?  Could it go higher without water/lapping ect?  I though these things would do 4.5+ on air but I've been told not.
Should I have just gotten a much cheaper haswell for him?


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 7, 2015)

set 1.325 vCore and 1.95V vInput, and see what it gets. Just watch temps. IF they are high, lower both voltages until in acceptable range with highest multi possible. Some chips will do quite well, so don't expect high clocks, but try for it anyway. 

As has been mentioned before in the thread, silicon lottery is a site that sells binned chips, and they do fairly well at providing accurate clocks for your dollar, so look at what they bin at, try that.


----------



## johnspack (Jul 7, 2015)

Arg,  well,  it should be fun then!


----------



## fullinfusion (Jul 7, 2015)

v12dock said:


> 2000 and polishing compound


A polishing compound, umm isn't that like a wax of a sort. Kudos to your fine job but personally it have left out the compound... I do polish wheels and tanks from time to time and sure it makes it shine but it also leaves a film on the surface to help protect it from the elements.


----------



## v12dock (Jul 7, 2015)

fullinfusion said:


> A polishing compound, umm isn't that like a wax of a sort. Kudos to your fine job but personally it have left out the compound... I do polish wheels and tanks from time to time and sure it makes it shine but it also leaves a film on the surface to help protect it from the elements.









Abrasives, lubricants and solvents. They just make much much smaller cuts.


----------



## LagunaX (Aug 12, 2015)




----------



## fullinfusion (Aug 13, 2015)

LagunaX said:


>


That be a 5ghz chip my friend.. Good job!


----------



## LagunaX (Aug 13, 2015)

fullinfusion said:


> That be a 5ghz chip my friend.. Good job!


Not going for 5ghz stress testing on air, I like this chip too much, LOL!
But here is 4.9ghz@1.28v for you, 74c max - not bad at all!


----------



## fullinfusion (Aug 13, 2015)

LagunaX said:


> Not going for 5ghz stress testing on air, I like this chip too much, LOL!
> But here is 4.9ghz@1.28v for you, 74c max - not bad at all!


Dude I have a 5.1Ghz chip but it need way more voltage then yours.. Try a max cpu voltage of 1.32 @ 5ghz and I betcha your golden!

1.32 will not hurt that chip.. @cadaveca he'll second that


----------



## johnspack (Aug 14, 2015)

wow...  wonder if I got my friend a gold devil's....  still have him at stock until our heatwave is over...  100-120f temps is no good for ocing.


----------



## LagunaX (Aug 14, 2015)

fullinfusion said:


> Dude I have a 5.1Ghz chip but it need way more voltage then yours.. Try a max cpu voltage of 1.32 @ 5ghz and I betcha your golden!
> 
> 1.32 will not hurt that chip.. @cadaveca he'll second that



Maybe later on at night after this 90+ deg heat wave passes or another night when the air conditioning is on


----------



## johnspack (Aug 14, 2015)

What's the max safe,  and I mean safe vcore for a 4690k?  Never played with them before...  so I'm a bit nervous.
So play it like a westmere,  and stay under 1.35?
Yes,  I'll go read more...  it's my buddies computer,  not mine,  and I have serious computer issues right now,  so I really don't want to read about nice running computer too much.....


----------



## LagunaX (Aug 14, 2015)

fullinfusion said:


> Dude I have a 5.1Ghz chip but it need way more voltage then yours.. Try a max cpu voltage of 1.32 @ 5ghz and I betcha your golden!
> 
> 1.32 will not hurt that chip.. @cadaveca he'll second that


Failed Realbench after 7 min at 1.32...4.9is good enuf


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 15, 2015)

johnspack said:


> What's the max safe,  and I mean safe vcore for a 4690k?  Never played with them before...  so I'm a bit nervous.
> So play it like a westmere,  and stay under 1.35?
> Yes,  I'll go read more...  it's my buddies computer,  not mine,  and I have serious computer issues right now,  so I really don't want to read about nice running computer too much.....


Yap, you got it.


----------



## agent00skid (Aug 28, 2015)

So I skimmed through the thread and didn't find anything on the G3258. Any good tips for getting good things out of one?


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 28, 2015)

So Asus Z87deluxe bios 2003 is the best. 
I was @ 2004 for around 3-4weeks but ram @ 2400mhz was still giving me some problems, ok it was a lot stabler then latest 2103 crap but no where near  2003 "beta".

Now at this 2003 and all is smooth @ 2400mhz CL10-12-12-31-2T, trfc 214, adv 3rd timings 4-8-6, with 2004 I had to use 4-8-7 and it would still glitch, nvm 2103 this needed 4-8-8 and which defeated the purpose of 2400mhz OC.. 
Heh, nice job Asus. Will just stick with this 2003 until further notice.


----------



## Kursah (Sep 28, 2015)

Makes me wonder if I should try going back to 2003 beta on my Z87 pro boards and seeing if I have better luck playing with OC and Stock + Undervolt situations... been a long time since I tweaked either of my boards... seems yours is related specifically to memory though... any thoughts on CPU clock/voltage between 2103 and 2003?


----------



## Tatty_One (Sep 28, 2015)

agent00skid said:


> So I skimmed through the thread and didn't find anything on the G3258. Any good tips for getting good things out of one?



There is a huge spectrum of overclockability with the chip, I had 2, one was pretty good, the other was an absolute dog, what I would suggest to start with is keep your memory speed low, see what you can get out of the chip that way before trying to tweak memory to higher speeds, the IMC can be very tricky on the 3258.

I also found with my bad one that I was better off fixing the voltage, adaptive setting gave me huge spikes under load.  I think I started at 1.2V and then left everything else at that point on auto and just raised the multi incrementally, at that point it will give you a good indication of the quality of the chip, you can then decide, with the cooling to raise voltage to push further, at some point (around 4.5gig for my decent one) I needed to tweak some of the other voltages to keep stability.

Although it may be a motherboard thing, take it steady with your LLC levels, again even at 50% I had some big spikes, I think I started on auto up until about 4.3gig and then just went 25% thereafter.


----------



## agent00skid (Sep 28, 2015)

Got a fairly budget Z97 board, so I'm not exactly swimming in settings. LLC is on or off on it. But here's some screen dumps for my current setup. And it's running Linux, so my OS monitoring isn't fantastic either.


----------



## buildzoid (Sep 28, 2015)

I managed to do this using my failed TEC water chiller: http://valid.x86.fr/t6s2b3


Water temp was 7C° because the TECs were running at about 65C hot side due to me using too small heatsinks. The CPU was at around 17C. Once I upgrade the heat sinks I should be able to run -10C water.


----------



## TheHunter (Sep 30, 2015)

Kursah said:


> Makes me wonder if I should try going back to 2003 beta on my Z87 pro boards and seeing if I have better luck playing with OC and Stock + Undervolt situations... been a long time since I tweaked either of my boards... seems yours is related specifically to memory though... any thoughts on CPU clock/voltage between 2103 and 2003?



Cpu cache is also more sensitive by 2103 vs 2003, needs higher voltage or is not stable e.g. 4.2GHz with 2400MHz ram.

Cpuv only slightly 0.003 - 0.004v bump.. e.g. 4.6GHz @ 1.235v by 2003 vs 1.238v by 2103.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Dec 8, 2015)

I think I managed to finally get over 4.4 on my chip. Currently at 4.6ghz at 1.325v. Temps never above 80c. Has passed everything ice thrown at it so far.

I am honestly confused, months ago I couldn't get over 4.4, could barely get it, and need 1.3v. Then I get new memory, jack up the system agent voltage to 1.06v from stock 0.856v, and try it again, and at 4.4ghz only needed 1.275 for stability.

Which leads me to believe that system agent has an effect and depending on how high you increase help reduce how much vcore you need. I think @TheHunter mentioned this months ago. I'm just now putting it to the test.


----------



## Toothless (Dec 8, 2015)

Sooo slower ram helps with faster cpu? Hmmm....


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## MxPhenom 216 (Dec 8, 2015)

Toothless said:


> Sooo slower ram helps with faster cpu? Hmmm....




No, from what @cadaveca was telling me, thats not exactly true. I actually have faster memory now, and pushing higher CPU clock than before.

Slower memory at first might help overclock the CPU without worrying about memory causing the instability issues during testing.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Dec 8, 2015)

Just a quick benchmark run of the entire 3DMark suite. CPu at 4.6. GPU at 1200mhz core(the clock I usually use for benchmarking is 1293).


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## Toothless (Dec 10, 2015)

I'm back at the start of overclocking issues. I wanna say temps are holding me back this time and the F@#$ING VOLTAGE. This chip really hates me.

4.4 can run on 1.2v. I can't do 4.6 unless I'm on 1.3v and then I'll start running the chip into the 60's celsius. I average 50-55c on a few games that force the chip to max turbo (4.4 atm) and that's on 20% load. Now i can multiclient with this game and easily hit 70c but I can't say I trust the game as it's DX9 and HEAVY HEAVY on the CPU. I would like to make sure it won't fry when I have 6 clients up.

what am i doing wrong again guys. toopliss needs halp.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Dec 11, 2015)

Toothless said:


> I'm back at the start of overclocking issues. I wanna say temps are holding me back this time and the F@#$ING VOLTAGE. This chip really hates me.
> 
> 4.4 can run on 1.2v. I can't do 4.6 unless I'm on 1.3v and then I'll start running the chip into the 60's celsius. I average 50-55c on a few games that force the chip to max turbo (4.4 atm) and that's on 20% load. Now i can multiclient with this game and easily hit 70c but I can't say I trust the game as it's DX9 and HEAVY HEAVY on the CPU. I would like to make sure it won't fry when I have 6 clients up.
> 
> what am i doing wrong again guys. toopliss needs halp.



Try increasing system agent voltage. For me that has really helped my chip do 4.6. I could go higher I think just haven't tried. I used to need like 1.3v to do 4.4, but now with system agent voltage at 1.06, I can get 4.4 at 1.275, maybe even 1.25.

Also 60-70 degrees is nothing to worry about with these chips.

EDIT: Oh you have a 4790k...


----------



## Toothless (Dec 11, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Try increasing system agent voltage. For me that has really helped my chip do 4.6. I could go higher I think just haven't tried. I used to need like 1.3v to do 4.4, but now with system agent voltage at 1.06, I can get 4.4 at 1.275, maybe even 1.25.
> 
> Also 60-70 degrees is nothing to worry about with these chips.
> 
> EDIT: Oh you have a 4790k...


I have the problem child.

So this happened.






Gaming is same temps as previous volts/clocks but I do get spikes in temps when I load something.


----------



## mlee49 (Dec 11, 2015)

So I've been out of the overclocking game for a while and finally got around to working on my system. Couldnt OC it for anything, no matter what. Finally broke down and opened it up to find the damn XMP switch was turned on. So frustrating 

Switched it off, rebooted into the Bios and booted at 4.4GHz. Hot damn, feels good man.


----------



## Toothless (Dec 11, 2015)

mlee49 said:


> So I've been out of the overclocking game for a while and finally got around to working on my system. Couldnt OC it for anything, no matter what. Finally broke down and opened it up to find the damn XMP switch was turned on. So frustrating
> 
> Switched it off, rebooted into the Bios and booted at 4.4GHz. Hot damn, feels good man.


I should turn off my xmp, probably, maybe...


----------



## TheHunter (Dec 24, 2015)

Well for my  Z87deluxe mobo beta 2003 bios really does some magic, ram OC is still at xmp 2400MHZ CL10 1T and no issues.,

Unlike with 2004 or 2103 - both made 2400MHZ completely unstable, had to revert back to stock 2133MHZ with these two.. 
heh Asus mentioned optimize overclock and improve system performance by both, yea right 



Using this "a little lower" OC for a while..
4.6GHZ @ 1.234v
4.2GHZ cache @ 1.15v
LLC7, cpu current 120%, vrm Extreme (using onboard igpu for quicksync), ram current 120%, ram vrm optimized
system agent 0.045V+ offset
vccin 1.79v
blck 6ohm for 100.29MHZ blck, making my cpu OC at 4601MHZ, instead of that occasional 99.8MHZ "glitch".






And it OC's like at day one when I first got it almost 3 years ago, uff time flies by


----------



## Kursah (Jan 19, 2016)

Well I'm still on 2103 atm...but am tossing around flashing back to 2003 beta. 

I've been messing around with OC-ing my current 4790K which replaced my 4770K that was donated to another build. I had underclocked it to -.070v and ran it for some time. I found I could run 4.5GHz at that setting as well, at least for initial OCCT CPU testing, 1.14v played nice. I thought that was pretty sweet. So now I gotta see how far the rabbit tunnel goes...

I slapped a second fan on my U14S for push-pull, which brought the temps down a little further, migrating to the Corsair 600C helped as well (even on the lowest fan speed!).

Next I tried 4.6, which is achievable around 1.16v, again I ran about an hour's worth of CPU testing in OCCT, it passed I moved on deciding 4.7 is a goal. I can boot and do short term stress testing at 1.18-19v, and longer CPU-only testing at 1.207v (-.005v). So I'm still a touch undervolted running now...which is pretty cool and I was hoping to keep it that way.

Running OCCT's PSU test brings up new issues, I had to set LLC to 8 in order to prevent reboots/crashes during the stress test. Now its good for about 20 minutes in the PSU test before erroring. It doesn't state what error, but I know it's CPU-related.

My cache/ring is running stock 40X and stock 1.16v. Both are left on auto and I have monitored them, though I plan to manually enter their values at some point just to see if any changes can be documented...thus far Intel XTU and HWMonitor show no variances. About the only other changes I have is that I'm running with power savers all enabled, as I prefer to idle when my PC is idle or low load when I don't need full power and I'm running the XMP profile for my 1866 DDR3...I may mess with it later to see if I can get any extra speed out of them...but right now I want to get 1-hour stable in OCCT's PSU test at this point.

I haven't increased or changed any other voltages... CPU input voltage is 1.712v and it floats between that and 1.724v as reported by monitoring tools. I think that I'm still within safety limits of not needing to increase that but maybe not... I'm adding notes and thoughts here as I go.

I will say this CPU surprised me a bit with the OC's it is able to achieve at below stock VID, I may settle on 4.6, but hoping I can make 4.7 work and maybe chase 4.8 later on just to see where it would end up at.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 20, 2016)

So I'm going to use this thread as my mini-OC log since its relevant.

I stuck with 2103, I wanna see what I can do..and not running uber fast DDR3 probably helps...but I'm curious to see what these Crucial 1866's can do...it'd be sweet to hit 2133 without much effort...lol.

So LLC is at 8, voltage set to stock VID, 1.21v. OCCT PSU test stable 1+ hours over the span of the afternoon/evening. Decided to download and run the Asus ROG Realbench 2.4.2...it lasted about 20-50 minutes on 1.20v, and am running a 1-hour on 1.21v.

Temps maxed at about 80C including the GPU. Not bad for low fan speed on case fans...cooler than my old case could've done with no CPU OC and higher fan speeds. Pretty damn happy overall, and my system is much quieter, cooler, and now OC'd. Snagged an extremely good deal on a 980Ti which should be here soon to retire my GTX 770...never OC'd it...doesn't look like I'll do so either. 

I did manually set cache min/max 40, manually set stock voltage. Set CPU INV to 1.70v (reads 1.712 idle, 1.728 load, just as Auto did). They didn't seem to change anything...I may let it go back to auto for some A|B.

So I have one complaint...I am able to run around -.070 for stock to a minor OC. It'd be nice if Adaptive would all subtracting from the standard voltage, and add to that subtracted value for the turbo voltage... because I could really do much better tuning for when that voltage is more necessary. Not that it really makes a difference...when I can idle at .650 vs .720, it's just an OCD annoyance more than anything. I hope that future voltage control on or off-CPU becomes more granular. I did really appreciate the extra CPU voltages that I have needed to use.

I feel like I'm about good on stability for 4.7GHz...can I get 4.8 at 1.25v or less? 

Stock -> 4.5 @ 1.14 (undervolted .070v), 4.6 @ 1.16 (undervolted .050v), 4.7 @ 1.21v (stock VID), 4.8 @ ??? 

Judging from the current steps...I'm gonna say no. I'm fine with that...I'm honestly thinking I'll go back to 4.6, mayyybe even stock when its all said and done. More to come!


----------



## Kursah (Jan 22, 2016)

Well I am a dumbass and had to relearn about adaptive settings because it had been a while since I OC'd my last Haswell processor with this much tuning.

But turns out I can undervolt and add adaptive for turbo. So now I'm running a -.070 offset, which applies during the normal clock range, 800-4000, so I get my stable and lower .650v idle and 1.14v at the top. Then once turbo kicks in, I set it it to 1.285v, and get 1.215v (as .070 is taken away from that as well...). I forgot with the adaptive setting it's not how much you add or remove...it is the value you want. Sigh...but I got it sorted. I'm doing this testing on 4.7, which needed a little more than the 1.205 that I was giving it initially (at this point at least). 

I was able to get my RAM up to 2000, I relaxed the big for from 9-9-9-27 to 10-10-10-32 for testing. Goal is 2133..which I realize is low but I'm not sure what this kit of Crucial is capable of yet...

Got 4.8 mostly stable at 1.26v last night...was OCCT stable but didn't pass Asus Realbench...came close tho. Max core temp was 83C. I'm not convinced I need 1.26v yet...but stability was spotty at 1.25...though it was 1.251 to 1.262...so I'm just nitpicking a few thousandths of a volt here lol. But it's been fun to do this again on my own rig. 

Monitoring measured power consumption in HWMonitor (however (in)accurate it may be..)dropped idle load bit time with the changing of the 40X cache min multi to 8X. I also was able to undervolt the cache by .015v at this point with 0 issues. I don't know if or how far I'll try to push the cache..fwir its gains are tough to notice so we shall see...the core is what I wanted to OC to a decent level and be able to keep it on air, and kick up the RAM a little bit.

Still on 2103 too...been pretty damn good though I don't have or plan on high memory clocks so I might be okay... we shall see.


----------



## TheHunter (Jan 24, 2016)

Nice chip, Im stuck at 4.7Ghz, one time I remember testing it at 1.25v, but guess it was a 2133mhz thing, when I moved to 2400mhz ram OC I had to use 1.280v min.. Or was it earlier bios thing. 
4.8ghz I already need 1.325v or so, kinda overkill


----------



## Toothless (Jan 29, 2016)

So I need a better cooler (as I've probably complained multiple times before unknowningly)

Stable! For now...






I'm limited by the thermals. OCCT will push it over 90c on all cores however it'll run 60-70c on normal-high loads. Curse this cooler.


EDIT: It actually needs 1.32v.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 31, 2016)

Well I ended up settling on 1.261v for 4.8 on my chip to keep it stable and my cooler seems to handle it fine. Still fine tuning a little bit...but I think I've about found the sweet spot. Now gonna tune the RAM, in initial tests I had this 1866 up to 2133 and had relaxed the timings to 10-10-10-35. Gonna try keeping the stock CL9 timings and upping to 2133.

I'm leaving the cache at 8x-40x...and on that note, if I didn't mention it before did this on my server CPU too...I save about 7-10 watts during idle/low load.

So as it sits,

*CPU vcore* - Adaptive voltage, -.070 for offset (stock clock undervolting), 1.330v for adaptive voltage to apply during turbo mode, which subtracts the offset and allows for 1.261v at load and .650v at idle.
*CPU Input V* - 1.70v, planning to turn EPU back on...as it defaults to this and saves some more power...might as well see what I can turn on and keep stable. Still not done testing at 1.65v tho...but EPU must be disabled for changing this voltage to take effect...lesson re-learned.
*Memory* - XMP, 1866, CL9, 1.5v.
I'm not chasing high memory OC's either, 2133, maayybe 2200 if this memory can handle it....but this is more for fun atm...I'll likely drop back down to 1866 unless I can verify a change in games.
Asus power settings to optimal.
*BIOS* - 2103, I tried 2003 beta and had worse stability.

I have most power saving settings enabled at this point, Asus power settings to optimized, LLC on auto. I tried a lot of manual settings and have since put a lot of them back on auto.

I must say this system is fast, I'm extremely happy with the OC too. I have debated dropping the CPU OC which I will eventually...but I feel pretty good for accomplishing 4.8Ghz on air right now.


----------



## Toothless (Apr 16, 2016)

So cooling isn't an issue anymore, the issue now is voltage. Not sure how high I can push it since I can't find the "safe" 24/7 voltage cap. I saw on here that it's 1.325v but I'm sure 1.4v would let me to the 4.8ghz throne.


----------



## puma99dk| (Apr 16, 2016)

Toothless said:


> So cooling isn't an issue anymore, the issue now is voltage. Not sure how high I can push it since I can't find the "safe" 24/7 voltage cap. I saw on here that it's 1.325v but I'm sure 1.4v would let me to the 4.8ghz throne.



Have u consider delid ur i7?

I seen a lot of users doing this and not only getting better temps but been able to overclock higher at the same voltage.


----------



## Toothless (Apr 16, 2016)

puma99dk| said:


> Have u consider delid ur i7?
> 
> I seen a lot of users doing this and not only getting better temps but been able to overclock higher at the same voltage.


I'm not risking a $300 chip, nor do I have the equipment to delid it. Those people can do as they wish but I'm not going to do it.


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## puma99dk| (Apr 16, 2016)

Toothless said:


> I'm not risking a $300 chip, nor do I have the equipment to delid it. Those people can do as they wish but I'm not going to do it.



hehe, what r ur temps around the vrms using an aio? ppl sometimes forget that u don't have an active airflow around having a waterblock on ur cpu.


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## Toothless (Apr 16, 2016)

puma99dk| said:


> hehe, what r ur temps around the vrms using an aio? ppl sometimes forget that u don't have an active airflow around having a waterblock on ur cpu.


Not hot enough to cause issues.


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## TheHunter (Apr 16, 2016)

Toothless said:


> So cooling isn't an issue anymore, the issue now is voltage. Not sure how high I can push it since I can't find the "safe" 24/7 voltage cap. I saw on here that it's 1.325v but I'm sure 1.4v would let me to the 4.8ghz throne.




Depends, if it goes in ~ 0.06v steps by each 100Mhz bump like by mine if I go over 4.5Ghz, then you're looking at ~ 1.38V @4.8GHz. But I would say "safe" is stay at 1.35v or lower.. 

Maybe you can try per core OC
2core 4.9Ghz, 
3core 4.8Ghz,
4core 4.7Ghz.. 

could be doable with max 1.38-1.43V, but anything over 1.4v is a bit tricky unless you use C3, C1E, eist and adaptive voltage (adaptive only after stable oc).


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## FYFI13 (Apr 16, 2016)

_http://valid.canardpc.com/4dyzsv_

One of my first OC'ing attempts with this CPU, like a year and half ago right after buying it.


Edit:

FYFI13|4790K|1.216/1.2|4998MHz(50x100)|1.45V|x40(4000MHz)|2133MHz|Corsair H60|Asus Z97M-Plus, no OC on RAM


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## Toothless (Apr 16, 2016)

TheHunter said:


> Depends, if it goes in ~ 0.06v steps by each 100Mhz bump like by mine if I go over 4.5Ghz, then you're looking at ~ 1.38V @4.8GHz. But I would say "safe" is stay at 1.35v or lower..
> 
> Maybe you can try per core OC
> 2core 4.9Ghz,
> ...


I'll try 1.35


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## cadaveca (Apr 17, 2016)

Forgot I was the one keeping the list here.  Anyone else want an addition to the rankings, let me know.



> FYFI13|4790K|1.216/1.2|4998MHz(50x100)|1.45V|x40(4000MHz)|2133MHz|Corsair H60|Asus Z97M-Plus, no OC on RAM


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## Schmuckley (Apr 17, 2016)

Needs to be a "Haswell died on me @ daily clocks" clubhouse.


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## Toothless (May 15, 2016)

So I wonder if since the only changes I was making is core voltage and clocks, wasn't I supposed to change cache stuff and power states too?


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## cadaveca (May 15, 2016)

Toothless said:


> So I wonder if since the only changes I was making is core voltage and clocks, wasn't I supposed to change cache stuff and power states too?


Cache, yes, a bit. Power states? NOPE.


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## Toothless (May 15, 2016)

cadaveca said:


> Cache, yes, a bit. Power states? NOPE.


Highest safe cache voltage?


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## cadaveca (May 15, 2016)

Toothless said:


> Highest safe cache voltage?


Depnds on cooling. Maybe you should read my Haswell OC guide...?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Haswell_OC_Guide/1.html


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## Toothless (Jun 1, 2016)

cadaveca said:


> Depnds on cooling. Maybe you should read my Haswell OC guide...?
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Haswell_OC_Guide/1.html


Followed it and got 4.7 easily. I gotta see if I can get a spot fan or something for the VRMs since now that's holding me back.


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## jaggerwild (Jun 1, 2016)

Get you some of DAT!

jaggerwild|4790|1.212|5402Mhz|54X100.05|1.55|x40(4000MHz)1600Mhz|Phase Change|GigZ97X-SLI-CF|stock Mem

http://valid.canardpc.com/ll55xv

http://hwbot.org/submission/2619510_philly_cheese_steak_cpu_frequency_core_i7_4790k_5402.61_mhz


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## TheHunter (Nov 18, 2016)

Hey @cadaveca or any other ram timings expert

I did some voodoo magic and got read 38.8GB/s @ 2600MHz, finally after 3.5yrs lol  But only half way,








this one highlighted was @ 10  for 2400MHz , now I set all 3 to 11.. and tWTR 10 was manual 8 and tRTP 10  was also 8, could be one of them for write and copy?





EDIT: although maxmem2 and cpuz benchmark showed the same score as 2400mhz,
maxmem 2400 had 34gb/s read,  now at 2600 26gb/s, but overall score was the same 26.6gb/s and 0.5ns lower latency.


*EDIT2:* this is the best I could do and fix write, copy.. I lowered these 3rd timings close to 2400 timings; 2nd timings are somewhat mix of 2400-2600 playing it safe..

If I chose last 3 @ 10 it won't post, 






and what it looks like in aida64 now




So is this the best I can do or?


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## emissary42 (Nov 19, 2016)

In the UEFI try

tRDRD_dr/_dd 5
tWRRD_dr/_dd 4
tWRWR(_dr/_dd) 4

Also most people just use ASRock Timing Configurator (ATC) or ASUS MemTweakIt to check on timings.

Single sided Hynix MFR @ 2800:


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## TheHunter (Nov 19, 2016)

Ah I thought those ram tools were just for OC'ing and ROG specific, that's why I never used it 

Ok will have a look.. So can I OC ram too or just timings?


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## emissary42 (Nov 19, 2016)

You can try both, success varies from kit to kit and with IC type / quality.


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## TheHunter (Nov 19, 2016)

Yes these g.skill 8GB sticks are not so good, but from what I saw most TridenX 8GB 2400mhz  OC crappy, some couldn't even do 2500MHz.

My max  is 2600 CL11, 2666mhz already failed even if at CL12... For example  My old Crucial 2133 CL9 Elite 4GB sticks  did 2666MHz @ CL11


ps; Your 40GB/s looks great , what is that ram, Corsair Platinum?


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## TheHunter (Nov 19, 2016)

Ok, so I used default 2400MHz 3rd timings and relaxed 2nd a bit and got this @ 2600Mhz.. Finally  









I tried 2666mhz, but I wouldn't boot.. doesn't matter anymore, this looks perfect now 


Thanks @emissary42


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## emissary42 (Nov 20, 2016)

TheHunter said:


> Yes these g.skill 8GB sticks are not so good, but from what I saw most TridenX 8GB 2400mhz  OC crappy, some couldn't even do 2500MHz.


Well most 2x8GB DDR3-2400 CL10 use 4Gbit Samsung ICs and those were nowhere near their 2Gbit D-die in terms of overclocking potential. Your final result does look pretty good, though,.



TheHunter said:


> ps; Your 40GB/s looks great , what is that ram, Corsair Platinum?


These were ADATA XPG V3. Had a user review planned with them, but the ADATA Rep never got back to me on a few questions, so i just did a few quick tests and sold them off.


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## mouacyk (Dec 5, 2016)

TheHunter said:


> Ok, so I used default 2400MHz 3rd timings and relaxed 2nd a bit and got this @ 2600Mhz.. Finally
> 
> 
> View attachment 81265
> ...


Being that these were 2400MHz default, what final voltage did you have to use to get the 2600MHz?


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## TheHunter (Dec 5, 2016)

mouacyk said:


> Being that these were 2400MHz default, what final voltage did you have to use to get the 2600MHz?



Hi,

I didnt change voltage, always 1.65v.

Only digi+ dram mobo power current from 100% to 120% or mv by GB/Msi and a bit higher cpu sys agent, but I didn't go over 0.060v+ yet, no idea how it acts @ 0.100 - 0.150mv+ offset.. It was the same with my old 4x4GB CL9 2133mhz Crucial blx elite when I ran them at 2400 or 2667 for testing.


Although its not completely stable, can crash more demanding games or even hard freeze the system.. Still need to adjust few timings, Im thinking all 3 tRDWR to 12 instead of 11. One guy @ guru3d tested the same ram as mine but 4GBsticks CL9 2400 and he said 2666 CL10 had a hard time too even at 1.70v, he has haswell too, but Gigabyte mobo..

This was his attempt.


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## mouacyk (Dec 5, 2016)

@TheHunter - Your 2x8GB might be fully stable if you bump up voltage a few notches and/or System Agent a few notches too.  I needed 1.7v and +0.05v to SA to be prime 24-hour stable at 2666MHz 11-13-13-35-2T with 4x8GB. I have mixed a 2666 and 2933 kit.  These double-density chips will probably need that extra voltage at higher speeds and higher capacities.


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## TheHunter (Dec 7, 2016)

Ok so I tested it yesterday and speeds are great, but stability not so much, tRDWR 12 or 13 no change, at auto it sets 10 and somehow boots, no way it does it if manual..

I also set cpu system agent 0.100v+ offset and it didnt make any difference either, but I didnt try 1.70v, feel a bit scared. :O 


Usually BSOD memory management, I think 0x1A., happened 3x when I tested simple thing like Aida64 memory benchmark, by memory latency (app error at first, then bsod ). Also seems to be more picky now @ XMP2 profile.. I had it at XMP1 at first, but I noticed default 2400mhz is faster @ XMP2 - auto tighter timings. Maybe I'll re-check XMP1 again.


But I found something more interesting with cpu sys agent, saw this debate once,  I used 0.080v and set cpuv from 1.288v to 1.274v and its stable - e.g. mmo RIFT can fail quick in heavy raid, its now 64bit and very multi core.
It passed other stuff too, even today as I type this - new cold boot and its a little colder compared 1.288v (up to 2-3C),.

I remember it benchmark'd 4.7ghz ~1.26v, early bios 3yrs ago, although not 100% stable but it passed some demanding apps. Maybe that bios auto adjusted higher cpu sys agent, shame I didn't monitor it.

Hmm might try 1.265v later again, lol I was already thinking it degraded a little, well it use to be ok at 1.284v now 1.288v, but I also used a little lower cpu sys agent since its native 2400mhz ram..


Also did a quick 4.8ghz test with cpu sys agent 0.100v+ 2400mhz ram and I stopped by 1.335v, got a bsod watch dog 0x101 and this one is tough to solve.. I already tested it once and it can be anything cpuv, cachev, input voltage, digi+ cpu/ram current %, cpu sys agentV :S 


EDIT: multi edits, added stuff..


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## mouacyk (Dec 7, 2016)

@TheHunter   You'll be fine at 1.7v on the DDR3, even up to about 1.8v for 24/7.  *However*, above 1.65v and especially in 4 dimm configurations, make sure you have airflow -- or the heat will build up and de-stabilize your clocks causing random BSOD's and crashes.  As for SA, I would not go above 1.25v (air) or 1.3v (water) on it.

I remember being able to run SuperPi and HyperPi 32m at 1.65v, but it would stop in longer runs of prime 95 or realbench or LinX with >90% of memory.  Only by slowly incrementing the DDR3 voltage was I able to reduce the memory errors eventually and achieve stability.  When you see that incrementing DDR3 voltage doesn't help anymore, then it's time to up SA by a notch or two and see if that helps.


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## Toothless (Dec 14, 2016)

Anyone know if leaving XMP off for a 4x8 ram kit is better than having XMP on for overclocking?


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## cadaveca (Dec 14, 2016)

Toothless said:


> Anyone know if leaving XMP off for a 4x8 ram kit is better than having XMP on for overclocking?


Depends. But yes, mem OC can affect CPU limits at the high-end, but really its more about the required VCCSA and VCCIO voltages increasing heat that is really the problem. So, test CPU OC first, find max, then do memory.


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## Kursah (Dec 14, 2016)

Toothless said:


> Anyone know if leaving XMP off for a 4x8 ram kit is better than having XMP on for overclocking?



Depends on if timings or voltage from that XMP profile are stable or not with the remaining system configuration. I usually run XMP set and then tune from there. With 4 Dimms you might bump up the voltage a touch, I had to. Especially I'd you're overclocking your RAM.

I run 4x4 1866 cl9 @ 2133 cl10, and I gotta run 1.55v to be stable on all 4 DIMMS, 2 DIMMS will do 2133 @ 1.5v. Not a huge OC but easy enough to achieve for what is likely more noticeable power consumption than performance gains. I was still able to achieve my 4.8 OC at 1.26v and 1.65v on CPU input. But my OC isn't very extreme on the memory, if you push beyond where I'm at VCCSA and IO become more of an necessity for tuning in some cases. 

If I ran 1.50v on the RAM my system would not be stable. I tried messing with the System Agent IO voltages in increments up to .150v, didn't help me but really I wasn't far out of adjustment. 

But for more extreme OC's, and for initial testing, exactly what Dave suggests. Start with CPU, get it and the cache sorted out if you do cache tuning. I do... though I leave the max multi at 40 (on my 4790, was 39 on my 4770) and set min to 8X. Noticed a drop in idle wattage consumed from the wall of around 8-10W as measured with UPS and software. The RAM OC made up for most of that. 

I also suggest undervolting at stock, and using adaptive voltage. I have found I can run my undervolted settings and as-soon as my CPU hits turbo, applies my OC voltage (with some compensation to actually achieve that voltage past the negative offset from undervolting) and works great. Keeps my system cool, quiet and a little more power efficient plus it added a little to the challenge of system tuning. I was able to shave off -.065v off of my stock VID for stock speeds (up to 4GHz, turbo is beyond that). You probably know how the adaptive works, I found it to be worth using and tuning with once I knew my undervolt @ stock and overvolt @ OC stable spots. I left most settings on auto, monitor via software, nothing really changes except what I change or what XMP changed that is detected. And I lucked out and can hit 4.8 on air, but I've seen quite a few 4790's accomplish that...though the one in my server most absolutely cannot...that's why its in the server! 

Good luck on your OC tuning!


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## Toothless (Dec 14, 2016)

I should've included overclocking the 4790k, not the ram. 

Oops.


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## TheHunter (Dec 14, 2016)

In my case I gave up ram Oc 2600mhz for now and focused more on lower cpuv AND I've managed to lower it further..


Vccsa 0.010v = cpuv 0.003v or so..

That said
cpuv 1.278v - vccsa 0.110v offset
Cpuv 1.272v - vccsa 0.130v

Now atm testing cpuv 1.266v - vccsa 0.150v

Use to have cpuv ~1.288v - vccsa 0.050v

Vccin ~ 1.78v with llc auto aka max llc8. Cpu vrm current auto aka extreme.


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