# AMD FSR FidelityFX Super Resolution Quality & Performance



## W1zzard (Jun 22, 2021)

Finally! AMD has its NVIDIA DLSS competitor ready, and it even works on NVIDIA cards. We're testing the company's new super-resolution technology in five games. The comparison images in our AMD FSR review let you dig into all the finer details, and our performance results cover multiple generations from both AMD and NVIDIA.

*Show full review*


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## watzupken (Jun 22, 2021)

Results look encouraging. Good work from AMD. Looking forward to see FSR on AAA titles.


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## dj-electric (Jun 22, 2021)

Gonna throw a curve ball here - the problem with still pictures is that they cannot convey movement and animation fluidity \ artifacting or anomaly during movement in object foliage shadow or whatnot


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jun 22, 2021)

It apears to work with 1080 cards, DLSS doesnt


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## Legacy-ZA (Jun 22, 2021)

Marvelous work W1zzard, I have to say, your review has been the best, bar none, when it comes to implementation of the side-by-side comparisons and quality presets, very well done indeed.



DeathtoGnomes said:


> It apears to work with 1080 cards, DLSS doesnt



Any screenshots you are willing to share? ^_^

Anyways, well done AMD!


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## Vya Domus (Jun 22, 2021)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> It apears to work with 1080 cards, DLSS doesnt



I am not gonna lie it's pretty hilarious to see an objectively superior alternative to a closed source technology running on your competitors hardware which didn't even support said technology.


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## W1zzard (Jun 22, 2021)

Legacy-ZA said:


> side-by-side comparisons


I wrote that image comparator all by myself because I couldn't find anything half-decent out there


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## Camm (Jun 22, 2021)

After people super zooming the Godfall Youtube video, I'm pleasantly impressed. It's good to see AMD with an excellent alternative rather than something that's okay but Nvidia does better.


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## WonkoTheSaneUK (Jun 22, 2021)

Linux news site Phoronix says that AMD will release the source code for FSR next month


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## unoproph (Jun 22, 2021)

I'm highly intrigued as a user with now two 10 Series GPUs, I have a 1060 6gb and a 1080 8gb and would love to do some higher resolution gaming on both of these with current AAA titles.  I was just hoping it would be a piece of software that would run in the background that would help like the GPU drivers.  I guess it takes more then just just that.


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## Legacy-ZA (Jun 22, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> I wrote that image comparator all by myself because I couldn't find anything half-decent out there



Like a champ, you did well, really well!

I can't wait to see the DLSS & FSR comparisons in the future, it's will be amazing to see the key differences. ^_^


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## john_ (Jun 22, 2021)

I can imagine Nvidia fanboys (excuse the use of the term "fanboys" here) and owners of GTX 1000 cards, closed in a rooms/houses, with all doors and windows shut and all microphones and cameras in devices off, whispering "Thank you AMD"!

 In any case this is a welcomed feature even if it is not at the same level as DLSS 2.X.


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## ppn (Jun 22, 2021)

Good for consoles I guess since they integrate AMD Gpu, but I'll wait for the PS5pro with a RX 6800 in it. On PC I'm a die hard native resolutionist, get 50% by just lowering the detail. So none of the blurry stretching tech is a major selling point to me.


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## birdie (Jun 22, 2021)

This looks promising and interesting. If it's as easy as implement as the clip below makes it to be I hope FSR becomes a standard feature for all future games even the ones which are already in the process of adding DLSS support.

If I were NVIDIA I'd open source DLSS or DLSS APIs as well, so that DLSS could run on AMD/Intel HW as well (via shaders not dedicated tensor cores, i.e. slower but still run).

By doing so NVIDIA could let the user see themselves which tech works better and make a rational purchasing decision.

@W1zzard 

Why haven't you tested GTX 1060 6GB as well? 

FSR promo video:


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## W1zzard (Jun 22, 2021)

birdie said:


> Why haven't you tested GTX 1060 6GB as well?


I simply had to make the cut somewhere to be finished in-time. GTX 1060 is the same architecture as 1080 Ti


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## birdie (Jun 22, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> I simply had to make the cut somewhere to be finished in-time. GTX 1060 is the same architecture as 1080 Ti



True so, but it's the GTX 1060 owners who are really interested in the tech while 1080 Ti can run most current AAA titles in 4K just fine anyways (after dialing down some graphical settings).


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## Ravenas (Jun 22, 2021)

I must say I am impressed by FSR. The results shown by the RX 580 are very good, and even current technology like the 6800 XT and the 3080 TI. This will give new life to a lot of older hardware that many users are currently using or have shelved, and will extend current hardware for many years to come. I want to see it adopted to the Linux kernal as well.

This is a stab at nvidia similar to Adaptive Sync vs Gsync, but on a whole new level. I really can't believe nvidia has let this happen twice.

Nvidia has played the greed card with DLSS, an impressive technology in it's own right, but without trying to claim something to early... AMD has truly hit a very good mark with FSR and I predict it will be adopted like wild fire across hardware (PCs and consoles) and also across many different applications (games, videos, etc..).

Thanks for the review W1z.


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## birdie (Jun 22, 2021)

john_ said:


> I can imagine Nvidia fanboys (excuse the use of the term "fanboys" here) and owners of GTX 1000 cards, closed in a rooms/houses, with all doors and windows shut and all microphones and cameras in devices off, whispering "Thank you AMD"!
> 
> In any case this is a welcomed feature even if it is not at the same level as DLSS 2.X.


As a GTX 1660 Ti owner I'm all for open standards and screw vendor lock-ins no matter how sweet and good they are.

We all know what happened to 3Dfx and while it's great we have Glide to OpenGL translators it could prove near impossible to write one for NVIDIA tensor cores APIs, so in 20 years from now if NVIDIA ceases to exist all the games and apps utilizing tensor cores could become impossible to run.

I'm not an NVIDIA fanboy, never been a fanboy of anything in this world, but NVIDIA drivers have always been nearly bug-free and far superior to AMD's and Intel's ones.


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## shk021051 (Jun 22, 2021)

This is far behind dlss 1.0


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## ZoneDymo (Jun 22, 2021)

seems like a solid first go at it, now lets see about adding this to some of the titles I play.....


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## Sihastru (Jun 22, 2021)

For some reason I remember someone at AMD promising FSR would not require software integration on the part of the game developer. I guess I was dreaming.

5800X has 32MB of L3 cache.


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## ZoneDymo (Jun 22, 2021)

birdie said:


> As a GTX 1660 Ti owner I'm all for open standards and screw vendor lock-ins no matter how sweet and good they are.
> 
> We all know what happened to 3Dfx and while it's great we have Glide to OpenGL translators it could prove near impossible to write one for NVIDIA tensor cores APIs, so in 20 years from now if NVIDIA ceases to exist all the games and apps utilizing tensor cores could become impossible to run.
> 
> I'm not an NVIDIA fanboy, never been a fanboy of anything in this world, but NVIDIA drivers have always been nearly bug-free and far superior to AMD's and Intel's ones.



My personal experience is the complete opposite, first card I bought to upgrade my PC was a 7900 GTO, great improvement over my 5300PCX or some crap like that but after a while the drivers became unstable and problematic.
After that I got an 8800GTS G92, again, great upgrade and lots of fun to be had but those drivers......

Then an HD6950 and that was 100% smooth sailing, RX480 right after and also was 100% smooth sailing to this day (thought Im not a fan of the Radeon Software interface compared to the old to the point Catalyst Control center but whatever)


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## Colddecked (Jun 22, 2021)

shk021051 said:


> This is far behind dlss 1.0



Funny you say that when the author of the article goes out of his way to make it seem better than DLSS 1.0...


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## Ja.KooLit (Jun 22, 2021)

G-R-E-A-T job AMD


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## wolf (Jun 22, 2021)

Well done AMD, more options for everyone... now get it in some games more people want to play!


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## z1n0x (Jun 22, 2021)

Pretty good results from what some dubbed as basic upscaling filter.
A question comes to my mind.  Is DLSS overengineered?


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## Punkenjoy (Jun 22, 2021)

Sihastru said:


> For some reason I remember someone at AMD promising FSR would not require software integration on the part of the game developer. I guess I was dreaming.
> 
> 5800X has 32MB of L3 cache.


I recall a lot of "Leaker" stating that but i don't recall AMD itself saying that. 


ppn said:


> Good for consoles I guess since they integrate AMD Gpu, but I'll wait for the PS5pro with a RX 6800 in it. On PC I'm a die hard native resolutionist, get 50% by just lowering the detail. So none of the blurry stretching tech is a major selling point to me.


From these results and depending on the game, you may get overall better image quality without the blurness by lowering a bit less the detail and using Ultra or quality mode. All depend also on what resolution you are using. (At 1080P, not sure i would use anything lower than quality unless it's really required to achieve good performance).

I am glad that it's better than the current resolution scaler in game and hope it get good game integration. On some game in the past, i had to lower the resolution either via resolution scaler or via the actual resolution because lowering detail was not enough before i was able to get a better GPU. And it looked ugly.

For a first shot, i am very please with what AMD deliver. The key here is how many game will support it. I now have a 6800 and a 1440p monitor so i should be good to run at native for some time. But that may mean that i could get an OLED 4K monitor and get still great performance


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## phanbuey (Jun 22, 2021)

I am such a fan of this tech trend -- just like Gsync nvidia got the ball rolling in a proprietary way and AMD came in a blew it wide open -- and as a result now I have a 'G-sync compatible' 4k VRR solution that didn't cost a kidney.

Fantastic news for gaming in general.  Cant wait to see it in more games.


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## FranciscoCL (Jun 22, 2021)

Better than expected, and thanks for the review, very well done.


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## human_error (Jun 22, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> I wrote that image comparator all by myself because I couldn't find anything half-decent out there



Absolutely brilliant job - makes it so easy to compare things! A future enhancement could be to be able to highlight specific areas you mentioned where differences are most apparent, but even as is it's great (works perfectly on my android tablet).

I'm most impressed with the fact that the best quality mode looks better than native thanks to the sharpening pass. Hoping this sharpening pass gets implemented more generally even when native rendering is used.


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## HD64G (Jun 22, 2021)

So, a great start for a free feature to help all modern GPUs perform faster and stay relevant for more years. Kudos to AMD and the game devs that will make it work well.


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## xkm1948 (Jun 22, 2021)

FSR looks Meh. If I wanted lower resolution I can directly alter it in game menu. Hard pass.


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## bug (Jun 22, 2021)

I wonder if you can lay FSR _on top of_ DLSS. And what that would look like.


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## nguyen (Jun 22, 2021)

wow the amount of sharpening that FSR add to Godfall is un-godly





Just like CAS, FSR will either be hit or miss with their sharpening filter which can't be adjusted. So far in a blind test I can tell which image use FSR Ultra Quality because of how noisy it is. Hilbert from Guru3d also mention that FSR Ultra Quality have too much sharpening in the 3 games he tested.

From the FSR supported list, I have Anno 1800, so probably I will test 4K FSR Ultra Quality vs 1440p + Nvidia Sharpening Filter (which can be adjusted)


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## Vya Domus (Jun 22, 2021)

Sihastru said:


> For some reason I remember someone at AMD promising FSR would not require software integration on the part of the game developer. I guess I was dreaming.


I have never seen anyone claim that, of course you have to implement it. What they did say is that it does not require per game training, which is true.


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## toilet pepper (Jun 22, 2021)

This is great. Better than lowerng your resolution and it works for almost all graphics card. One odd thing I notices is that the gains are lower on Ampere. It might be because of their overhead on lower resolution.


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## InVasMani (Jun 22, 2021)

I made a post in previous FSR forum like 15 minutes before W1zard ran the article showing some screen shot comparisons utilizing AMD's Fidelity FX CAS technique. It's really easy to impliment tonemap at pretty near zero GPU impact. Far as the article goes FSR upscale for Netflix/YouTube video streams would be really great in the future.

Reshade CAS injection upscale.


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## Richards (Jun 22, 2021)

Dlss is like cinema  quality  with oscar like games and fsr is Netflix no top quality  games



Colddecked said:


> Funny you say that when the author of the article goes out of his way to make it seem better than DLSS 1.0...


Does he have proof or just his opinion  ?


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## beautyless (Jun 22, 2021)

I like to play games at the native resolution. 
But if my video card is unable to drive the game at native resolution while maintains 60fps. 
FSR will be helpful before I go dial down some graphic settings. 
It is useful to many gamers including me. 
I will try FSR with Resident Evil Village when it's ready.

Thank you for this review. You've done a good job as always.


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## saikamaldoss (Jun 22, 2021)

Didnt they say it wont require developer to implement? If the company folks dont know what they are talking about. Probably they should shut up :/  if it supported all games, it would have been a winner even if the quality is not as good as DLSS… which i am not sure coz i dont have any these games installed.. hope UB will add it to all its major titles


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## Punkenjoy (Jun 22, 2021)

The "I prefer to be native" mind is clearly gamers that went thru the switch to LCD. at the time, getting good 1080p performance was hard but not running the panel native resolution was a huge problem.


I still think people having 1080p should try to run native as much as possible. But at 4K, the amount of pixel, the surface area that someone can see normally and normal viewing distance and stuff, make these technique very useful. I wouldn't mind turning it on at 4K but that would bother me at 1080p. Unless indeed, i am running a very low end GPU. 

That give us way more option for getting maximum performance while keeping good image quality. It would still be a good idea indeed to turn down many of the placebo Ultra settings that have great performance hit but i think that i would prefer to run some game at 4K FSR quality High or ultra than 4K native medium. But so many testing to be done.


A point worth nothing is there are many settings available to the devs like how many sharpening to apply in FSR. I suspect that over time, people will get used with the technique and extract better image quality from it by fine tuning the settings.


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## W1zzard (Jun 22, 2021)

human_error said:


> could be to be able to highlight specific areas you mentioned where differences are most apparent


It already has that capability, used in my Cyberpunk review for example. For this review I'm trying the "text" approach. My goal is to give you a little bit of an idea, without "coaching" you into what you're supposed to see



Sihastru said:


> 5800X has 32MB of L3 cache.


Oh wow, you are 100% correct. Congrats to be the first person to report this, it has been wrong a lot of my recent GPU reviews





t.t .. fixing


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## matar (Jun 22, 2021)

Thanks AMD for including Nvidia support too.


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## Mescalamba (Jun 22, 2021)

shk021051 said:


> This is far behind dlss 1.0



Yes for now.

While I have lately quite a bit of dislike for AMD due various reasons, they are usually good in improving their tech (SW and HW) over time.

I think main point here is that unlike nVidia and their closed secrets (fortunately for them, usually working ones) this one is "free to use on everything".


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## 64K (Jun 22, 2021)

Picture quality is improved but the main improvement is the large increase in frame rates. This will be good for gamers that have a midrange GPU


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## InVasMani (Jun 22, 2021)

I'm hoping AMD makes it so you can use the VRS to switch different adjusted strength CAS setups so it can increase or decrease the CAS settings a bit based around the VRS resolution as they increase or decrease to different resolution points. That would be highly flexible and increase the overall options and impact for image quality and performance trade offs in a way where you could more feather tune similarly to precision boost.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 22, 2021)

I'm very impressed... especially the Terminator Resistance side by sides. I imagine like anything, some games will be better than others at implementing this.

I'm going to wait for a few updates before I try it out on my gtx 1070 laptop, but this does seem very promising, AMD should have used the Terminator Resistance example over Godfall imo during their press release, whoever works in marketing team for needs to some skill points imo.


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## PerfectWave (Jun 22, 2021)

is it possible to see if the tensor cores works when using DLSS?


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## XiGMAKiD (Jun 22, 2021)

john_ said:


> I can imagine Nvidia fanboys (excuse the use of the term "fanboys" here) and owners of GTX 1000 cards, closed in a rooms/houses, with all doors and windows shut and all microphones and cameras in devices off, whispering "Thank you AMD"!
> 
> In any case this is a welcomed feature even if it is not at the same level as DLSS 2.X.


Thank you AMD

Signed
GTX1060 owner


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 22, 2021)

Yay, yet another stupid proprietary NVIDIA-only tech bested by an AMD tech available to all platforms.

DLSS was great, FXSR seems to be as good but for more games and more hardware, including the consoles.


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## Godhand007 (Jun 22, 2021)

nguyen said:


> wow the amount of sharpening that FSR add to Godfall is un-godly
> View attachment 204972
> 
> Just like CAS, FSR will either be hit or miss with their sharpening filter which can't be adjusted. So far in a blind test I can tell which image use FSR Ultra Quality because of how noisy it is. Hilbert from Guru3d also mention that FSR Ultra Quality have too much sharpening in the 3 games he tested.
> ...


This scenario was tested by HU along with adobe filter effects and as per them, FSR is better. Not saying your subjective opinion is invalid for you but this is the conclusion I am seeing from reviewers.


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## nguyen (Jun 22, 2021)

Godhand007 said:


> This scenario was tested by HU along with adobe filter effects and as per them, FSR is better. Not saying your subjective opinion is invalid for you but this is the conclusion I am seeing from reviewers.



I'm basing my opinion on TPU image, just drag the cursor to the Ultra Quality and notice how intense the Sharpening filter is, which add too much noise particularly at the stairs, seems like W1zzard is seeing the same thing, also quote from Guru3d:


> Ultra Quality - here we do get much better detail at first sight. However, when you look closer you'll start to notice a loss of detail. We noticed some artifacts when leaves blew by, lines are far more blurry and a lot of detail gets grainy and noisy. For example, the iron corroded bar to the right now was showing lots of noise, pixels that do not make sense


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## Voultapher (Jun 22, 2021)

@W1zzard I suspect one of the reasons why Unreal Engine doesn't want to talk about this, is they have their own Super Resolution technology they want to market see 







 (timestamp 16:50) known as TSR (Temporal Super Resolution) as part of UE5. I suspect it's similar to what AMD does in that it doesn't do deep learning like DLSS but as they are deep inside their own engine they have access to various sources of information including motion vectors, so a temporal approach seems to make a lot of sense.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jun 22, 2021)

Sihastru said:


> For some reason I remember someone at AMD promising FSR would not require software integration on the part of the game developer. I guess I was dreaming.
> 
> 5800X has 32MB of L3 cache.


As with any API, functions still need to  be enabled on the backend.  


saikamaldoss said:


> Didnt they say it wont require developer to implement? If the company folks dont know what they are talking about. Probably they should shut up :/  if it supported all games, it would have been a winner even if the quality is not as good as DLSS… which i am not sure coz i dont have any these games installed.. hope UB will add it to all its major titles


You should know what you are talking about before slamming anyone else.


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## r.h.p (Jun 22, 2021)

thanks for the review wizzard , to be honest i didnt even know terminator had a game out and im DL it right now oh my


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## defaultluser (Jun 22, 2021)

unoproph said:


> I'm highly intrigued as a user with now two 10 Series GPUs, I have a 1060 6gb and a 1080 8gb and would love to do some higher resolution gaming on both of these with current AAA titles.  I was just hoping it would be a piece of software that would run in the background that would help like the GPU drivers.  I guess it takes more then just just that.



Yeah,. if all this is doing is upsamping individual frames, there's nothing stopping you from  inserting this through a driver checkbox (the NVIDIA FXAA button, for example)

I recall back in the erly  days of FXAA, I used a hacked DLL + universal insertion script for FXAA plus custom sharpening pass  (used this on Borderlands 1, a game with broken msaa), so once the source gets released, we should be able to hack it in.

I would laugh if NVIDIA beats AMD to the punch of inserting a driver checkbox 

I' going to download the Riftbreaker demo tonight, and see if this works ion my GTX 960!


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## Godhand007 (Jun 22, 2021)

nguyen said:


> I'm basing my opinion on TPU image, just drag the cursor to the Ultra Quality and notice how intense the Sharpening filter is, which add too much noise particularly at the stairs, seems like W1zzard is seeing the same thing, also quote from Guru3d:


But the comment below is not about sharpening overuse right? I can see the quality loss if that is what you are referring to, which is expected. Here are the details from HW about sharpening in the context of FSR 







.


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## dicktracy (Jun 22, 2021)

BlurFX is more accurate. No thanks!


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## pexxie (Jun 22, 2021)

Awesome seeing this type of open science in gaming.
Hopefully the next big thing is an open version of asynchronous reprojection. The latest frame interpolators for video are amazing. I wondered if doing it realtime was possible, and it seems asynchronous reprojection is it.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 22, 2021)

Great review, I am impressed with Fsr, looks like something that could (with swift, vast adoption) hold me over until sanity returns.
Still plenty of work to do though too.


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## r.h.p (Jun 22, 2021)

i just did a run on superpisition at 4k optimised with these new beta drivers and my min fps went up 15 .... stoked


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## rutra80 (Jun 22, 2021)

XYZ game in FSR Performance mode = XYZ, oil on canvas.

Technically it's far inferior to DLSS. Simply a standarized way of doing something in software.
Also not a groundbreaking difference to rendering in lower resolution with Radeon Image Sharpening. Tough luck they didn't include some temporal AA in the chain.


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## Sithaer (Jun 22, 2021)

Not too bad for a first try, personally I can barely see any diff between native image and the ultra quality one but I have bad eyes so theres that.  _'even with brand new glasses I just got a few days ago'_
Most likely I wouldn't notice any diff while actually playing games since I don't really pay attention to small details when I game.

Now just add support to more games cause for now theres not a single game supported that I play.
My RX 570 could definitely use the help with 2560x1080 res in AAA games.


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## nikoya (Jun 22, 2021)

@W1zzard
CPU load impact ？

no need to re-run all the tests  hehe
just a rough estimation if you have time (^^)/


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## Deleted member 190774 (Jun 22, 2021)

It's good to see that those who consistently bring the negative commentary are still doing so - you guys never fail to disappoint 

I thought it looked pretty reasonable from this review; haven't read any others yet.


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## W1zzard (Jun 22, 2021)

nikoya said:


> @W1zzard
> CPU load impact ？


More FPS = more CPU load. But I don't think that's what you're asking. The FSR shader code runs almost completely on the GPU, it has no significant CPU overhead. We asked this in AMD's briefing call


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## turbogear (Jun 22, 2021)

@W1zzard thanks a lot as usual for the great review.  
The technology looks very interesting and promising.
Let's see how it develops in the future.
I hope many AAA games will support it in up coming time.


john_ said:


> I can imagine Nvidia fanboys (excuse the use of the term "fanboys" here) and owners of GTX 1000 cards, closed in a rooms/houses, with all doors and windows shut and all microphones and cameras in devices off, whispering "Thank you AMD"!
> 
> In any case this is a welcomed feature even if it is not at the same level as DLSS 2.X.


 Very interesting point.

Amazing, that AMD is even supporting competition cards and did not lock down technology only on RDNA2.


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## _Flare (Jun 22, 2021)

now scalpers and sellers of cards recently enslaved as minigcards gonna be sad nobody needs their overpriced offers ... sorry 
AMD well done


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## altermere (Jun 22, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> I made a post in previous FSR forum like 15 minutes before W1zard ran the article showing some screen shot comparisons utilizing AMD's Fidelity FX CAS technique. It's really easy to impliment tonemap at pretty near zero GPU impact. Far as the article goes FSR upscale for Netflix/YouTube video streams would be really great in the future.
> 
> Reshade CAS injection upscale.


pretty cool. i wish they'd make something like xBRZ x2/x3/x4 option available in control panel for all games.


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## Punkenjoy (Jun 22, 2021)

For people that don't have any of these game but want to make their own mind. Riftbreaker have a free demo on steam. 

So i was able to test myself. On my laptop with a 15 inch 4K oled screen, it was clear to me that Performance mode was degraded vs native. But on the other mode, it wasn't that obvious. balanced had some of the shimering on the wall but except that, it was looking really good. I am very pleased. You can also compare with the build in Resolution scaller and it's clearly more sharp and less blurry. 

i will need to test on my desktop with LCD 1440p monitor to see.


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## Ikaruga (Jun 22, 2021)

First of all, thanks for the review. 
To be honest, I just don't undersdtand how can the two solutions be compared (I mean FSR 1.0 vs DLSS 2.2) on the same level, because they are not on the same level, not even close. 
I'm not saying that the DLSS will/should prevail against the openness of FSR on the long run, but come on, at this time FSR is nothing more than a sophisticated upscaling post process pass, it's lightyears behind from what nvidia offers to gamers with the latest DLSS version.
Thanks, but I don't build gaming PCs for "cheap" console solutions, I use DLSS because it mostly looks better than native, while this one looks worse actualy.


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## turbogear (Jun 22, 2021)

beedoo said:


> It's good to see that those who consistently bring the negative commentary are still doing so - you guys never fail to disappoint



That reminds me about a comment that one of Admins at TPU wrote after he had to do some cleaning in an AMD related thread that was run over by our negative commentary friends.  

Admin said: "Stop peeing in other people's pools." 

W1zzard makes great reviews.
The technology is really interesting and hopefully games like Cyberpunk will implement it. 

I don't own any of the games that supports it at the moment.

Far Cry 6 would be interesting to see with this but unfortunately this game has been delayed until October.
I got FC6 through AMD as promotion code with 5800X. 
Loved all the FC titles so far and waiting for the new one.

Maybe by then I will have 4k monitor.
With my current 2k 165Hz  FreeSync HDR monitor, I get usually high frame rates with my highly Oced at 2750MHz@1175mV 6900XTU Liquid Devil Ultimate in all the games I play.

Cyberpunk with Raytracing is an application where I would like to try FSR if CD Project Red will support it.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jun 22, 2021)

Ikaruga said:


> FSR is nothing more than a sophisticated upscaling post process pass,


and DLSS is not? Regardless of your schilling here, FSR is still in the early stages, DLSS has had time to mature. Sure FSR is behind DLSS, but give it time.


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## crimsontape (Jun 22, 2021)

All this talk about first Gen RTX getting a new lease on life, and I'm here with my RX560 4GB. xD hahaha


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## Ikaruga (Jun 22, 2021)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> and DLSS is not? Regardless of your schilling here, FSR is still in the early stages, DLSS has had time to mature. Sure FSR is behind DLSS, but give it time.


Please allow me to ignore the baseless personal insult part of your internet manifestation, I won't go that deep, sorry.
That being said, if I understand right, DLSS reconstructs and supersamples while FSR upscales, hence my post about comparision, my opinion is that it's not comparable at this time, and reviews should not handle them on the same level.
I would be the happiest if AMD would offer better streaming options, better ray tracing options, better DLSS options, etc... but so far they only offer better rasterization speeds. I honestly hope they will do, because that would mean more competition which would lead to lower prices and better products for us, customers.
I just pointed out that we should still stay objective while we are at it.


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## The red spirit (Jun 22, 2021)

human_error said:


> Absolutely brilliant job - makes it so easy to compare things! A future enhancement could be to be able to highlight specific areas you mentioned where differences are most apparent, but even as is it's great (works perfectly on my android tablet).
> 
> I'm most impressed with the fact that the best quality mode looks better than native thanks to the sharpening pass. Hoping this sharpening pass gets implemented more generally even when native rendering is used.


Radeons have had RIS (Radeon Image Sharpening) for a while. It's a smart algorithm that sharpens image with reduced typical oversharpened look. It was made to have a competitor to DLSS and it does what it says, but it doesn't upscale.



DeathtoGnomes said:


> and DLSS is not? Regardless of your schilling here, FSR is still in the early stages, DLSS has had time to mature. Sure FSR is behind DLSS, but give it time.


Personally, FSR looks better than DLSS 2.0. Even RIS looked better than DLSS 1.0.


----------



## kane nas (Jun 22, 2021)

shk021051 said:


> This is far behind dlss 1.0


this is far better from dlss 1.0 but not from  dlss 2.0


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## The red spirit (Jun 22, 2021)

Manoa said:


> View attachment 205046


From 2019 with love:









RIP DLSS.


----------



## trparky (Jun 22, 2021)

What would be very cool is if someone were to use this tech, convert it into a DirectShow filter that you can plug into say, VLC, and then play older 480i DVDs and have them upscaled in real time. Somehow I doubt that it could be done though.


----------



## wolf (Jun 22, 2021)

I am suitably impressed for a '1.0' attempt, however the usefulness seems far more limited (ultra quality or quality at 4k, ultra quality at 1440p, 1080p is a gamble to even use ultra quality), where the cards and resolutions that want or need to gain the most, stand to benefit somewhat less. DLSS does do an undeniably better job at making significantly lower input resolution less blurry. Neither is without their drawbacks.

Make no mistake though, in every mode, you are making your presentation softer, It's admirably better than fxcas + downscale, or equivalents, but even 4k native VS 4k ultra quality, which represents a best case scenario, FSR is not as sharp, for those that demand only the cleanest, sharpest image anyway. It also appears to worsen shimmer when it's present in the native image, one of my most disliked atifacts personally.

Now that it's out, AMD'S game is the same as Nvidia's is, refinement, and above all adoption.

For this generation at least, perhaps another or more, Nvidia RTX users seem to be the biggest winners when it comes to choice, DLSS support in supported titles, FSR in others and hopefully some crossover.

Quote from Alex from DF, Interesting take.



> Alex here from Digital Foundry -
> 
> reading other reviews I think there is a general misapprehension happening about AMD's FSR in the tech press, so my review reads or watches rather differently. **FSR is an image upscaling technique**, like a bilinear or bicubic upscale you can do in photoshop. AMD's own tech briefing and information describes FSR as an uspcaling technique to be compared with simple image space upscalers like Bilinear or Lanczos or Bicubic. It is better than those simple upscalers for the purpose of a video game image.
> 
> ...


----------



## z1n0x (Jun 23, 2021)

If only Digital Foundry were as excited about TAAU in their DLSS reviews.


----------



## The red spirit (Jun 23, 2021)

trparky said:


> What would be very cool is if someone were to use this tech, convert it into a DirectShow filter that you can plug into say, VLC, and then play older 480i DVDs and have them upscaled in real time. Somehow I doubt that it could be done though.


Isn't that exactly what MadVR does?


----------



## trparky (Jun 23, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> Is that exactly what MadVR does?


Yes, but don't you have to pay for that? It would be cool if this tech could be used by anyone for free.


----------



## InVasMani (Jun 23, 2021)

I like AMD early results with FSR personally and think it'll be refined in time by both AMD and how developers use and integrate it. I'm sure I could improve on my Reshade CAS shader injection method. What the screen shot doesn't show you is how it looks during animation. When i turn on or off the event how it looks in realtime with the game engines lighting and shading is nothing short of impressive. The added immersion is nothing short of a miracle really. I know it's not ray traced, but it really raises up rasterization lighting and shading quite a lot and absolutely brings out texture detail.


----------



## wolf (Jun 23, 2021)

z1n0x said:


> If only Digital Foundry were as excited about TAAU in their DLSS reviews.


Well DLSS has a temporal component, so it's sort of part TAAU anyway, and as has been shown can resolve more detail than an engines inbuilt TAAU solution. 

In any case the landscape changes, AMD is later to the party and gets compared to what is available today.


----------



## z1n0x (Jun 23, 2021)

wolf said:


> Well DLSS has a temporal component, so it's sort of part TAAU anyway, and as has been shown can resolve more detail than an engines inbuilt TAAU solution.
> 
> In any case the landscape changes, AMD is later to the party and gets compared to what is available today.


The question is why TAAU is not been brought up by them until now and why its not been widely used, so everyone can benefit?
edit:  nvm i'm answering my own question. So they can sell you the latest overpriced gpu.


----------



## wolf (Jun 23, 2021)

z1n0x said:


> The question is why TAAU is not been brought up by them until now and why its not been widely used, so everyone can benefit?


I suppose it's just a per game / engine thing where each game may or may not include it.

I guess the difference here is both AMD and NVIDIA have made relatively 'big deals' about their image Upscaling / super resolution solutions that can be across many games, so that's the spotlight and they get compared with what's at hand. Even pre FSR DF compared dlss 2.0 VS TAAU in metro Exodus EE, as the game included it, it was a relevant comparison at the time.


----------



## mechtech (Jun 23, 2021)

Can you test Terraria??   

Edit - hmmmm so if it works with an RX580, that means it should work with an RX480?  So perhaps my card just got a 2nd wind?


----------



## wolf (Jun 23, 2021)

z1n0x said:


> edit: nvm i'm answering my own question. So they can sell you the latest overpriced gpu.


So did you actually want the real answer to a question you asked, or a chance to flex some bias?


----------



## Minus Infinity (Jun 23, 2021)

Wow, so imagine the gains when RDNA3 is released as it gets hardware accelerated FSR. There will be no reason not to move to 4K high refresh even if you have only gpu that does 1440p but not at ultra.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 23, 2021)

Minus Infinity said:


> Wow, so imagine the gains when RDNA3 is released as it gets hardware accelerated FSR. There will be no reason not to move to 4K high refresh even if you have only gpu that does 1440p but not at ultra.



the future does look great indeed. in fact, I wonder if there will be a time in about 5 years we no longer need new gpu's period, the last generation ever made... AI is improving all the time, maybe DLSS 3.0 will be a thing and open source.

I can dream... haha (would be great for the environment, no more e-waste) though to be fair we make up a very very tiny percentage of that, since even are older older gear is still valuable so to speak. its really only office companies that are biggest issue for e-waste, from my observations anyway


----------



## Deleted member 190774 (Jun 23, 2021)

Minus Infinity said:


> Wow, so imagine the gains when RDNA3 is released as it gets hardware accelerated FSR. There will be no reason not to move to 4K high refresh even if you have only gpu that does 1440p but not at ultra.


While I do think that FSR is cool - at least for what it does for us right now, I really don't think RDNA3 will be hardware accelerating FSR - at least not FSR as we know it today. I wouldn't be surprised if RDNA3 supports a more ML approach for much improved image quality.


----------



## evernessince (Jun 23, 2021)

beedoo said:


> While I do think that FSR is cool - at least for what it does for us right now, I really don't think RDNA3 will be hardware accelerating FSR - at least not FSR as we know it today. I wouldn't be surprised if RDNA3 supports a more ML approach for much improved image quality.



ML is only going to help when scaling from input resolutions of 1200p and below as demonstrated in the quality assessments as it allows them to restore details that aren't available at lower resolutions.  That said there's no saying that AMD can't do that without using ML.  It might be possible, for example, if FSR 2.0 is able to utilize multiple frames of information.  Not sure how feasible that is with AMD's current approach of requiring minimal dev effort.  We'll have to wait and see.



lynx29 said:


> the future does look great indeed. in fact, I wonder if there will be a time in about 5 years we no longer need new gpu's period, the last generation ever made... AI is improving all the time, maybe DLSS 3.0 will be a thing and open source.
> 
> I can dream... haha (would be great for the environment, no more e-waste) though to be fair we make up a very very tiny percentage of that, since even are older older gear is still valuable so to speak. its really only office companies that are biggest issue for e-waste, from my observations anyway



AMD and Nvidia would never allow that.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 23, 2021)

evernessince said:


> AMD and Nvidia would never allow that.



that world already exists for people who only like indie games.  all depends who the customer is, but I get your point.


----------



## Punkenjoy (Jun 23, 2021)

beedoo said:


> While I do think that FSR is cool - at least for what it does for us right now, I really don't think RDNA3 will be hardware accelerating FSR - at least not FSR as we know it today. I wouldn't be surprised if RDNA3 supports a more ML approach for much improved image quality.


I agree, in it's current form, i am not sure what really there is to accelerate. 

I suspect future release of FSR will have algorithm that will use more data like previous frame and movement vector or even something else like machine learning. 



lynx29 said:


> that world already exists for people who only like indie games.  all depends who the customer is, but I get your point.



There are already more and more game like that. The thing is I suspect that in the near future, some APU will have enough power for light 1080p gaming and both AMD and Nvidia would provide some APU to fill that market. It's a huge market. Not everyone live in the first world country.

But AAA game will stay for sure. Too much enthusiast gaming community ready to buy high end GPU.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 23, 2021)

Looks good, for a 1.0 launch this seems like it's got some really good things ahead of it

I am stoked i can choose between FSR and DLSS and my 3090 will live forever


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Jun 23, 2021)

Richards said:


> sr is Netflix no top quality games


it launched LESS then 24 hours ago dude chill


----------



## bencrutz (Jun 23, 2021)

dj-electric said:


> Gonna throw a curve ball here - the problem with still pictures is that they cannot convey movement and animation fluidity \ artifacting or anomaly during movement in object foliage shadow or whatnot



for the review part, yeah, good suggestion.
on FSR for that matter, due to the nature of spatial and no temporal method/algorithm used, i believe it shouldn't have a problem on moving objects, unless the game itself introduce ghosting in the pipeline with temporal based anti aliasing before the FSR


----------



## evernessince (Jun 23, 2021)

bencrutz said:


> for the review part, yeah, good suggestion.
> on FSR for that matter, due to the nature of spatial and no temporal method/algorithm used, i believe it shouldn't have a problem on moving objects, unless the game itself introduce ghosting in the pipeline with temporal based anti aliasing before the FSR



Hardware Unboxed did movement tests and found no ghosting with FSR as they expected.  They provide an example of Ghosting when using DLSS 2.0 for reference.


----------



## Soulander (Jun 23, 2021)

Great job, sir!
Hey @W1zzard ! Can you test FSR with AMD APU(2200g, 3400g & 4650g - 3, 4 & 8gb of 16gb ddr4 3000mhz) in 720p and 1080p, please?

Thank you so much!


----------



## W1zzard (Jun 23, 2021)

trparky said:


> What would be very cool is if someone were to use this tech, convert it into a DirectShow filter that you can plug into say, VLC, and then play older 480i DVDs and have them upscaled in real time. Somehow I doubt that it could be done though.


This is called madVR. Has been out for years. A must for any media PC, even if you have 1080p content


----------



## Max(IT) (Jun 23, 2021)

I’m impressed. Not only this would probably extend the life of my son‘s 5700XT (a very debated product I would add), but in conjunction with DLSS it could help my RTX 3080 to cover most of the upcoming titles.



Soulander said:


> Great job, sir!
> Hey @W1zzard ! Can you test FSR with AMD APU(2200g, 3400g & 4650g - 3, 4 & 8gb of 16gb ddr4 3000mhz) in 720p and 1080p, please?
> 
> Thank you so much!


I’m not sure but I don’t think it’s working below 1440P target output.
by the way according to my DLSS experience, those downrendering/up scalin algorithms are very bad with 1080P displays, because the rendering resolution is way too low.


----------



## SamWarrick (Jun 23, 2021)

Valve listed among the partners, so Half-Life 3 confirmed


----------



## Max(IT) (Jun 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> I am not gonna lie it's pretty hilarious to see an objectively superior alternative to a closed source technology running on your competitors hardware which didn't even support said technology.


That was Nvidia playing dirty once again…
AMD was able to change some Intel misbehavior in the CPU market, now they will do the same with Nvidia in the GPU market… and I’d like to see Intel joining the party.



Legacy-ZA said:


> Like a champ, you did well, really well!
> 
> I can't wait to see the DLSS & FSR comparisons in the future, it's will be amazing to see the key differences. ^_^


I think DLSS will still be slightly better, considering its different nature, but at what price ?
if FSR is good enough, and it seems to be the case, working virtually on every hardware, it will be a win anyway.


----------



## Crackong (Jun 23, 2021)

Max(IT) said:


> That was Nvidia playing dirty once again…
> AMD was able to change some Intel misbehavior in the CPU market, now they will do the same with Nvidia in the GPU market… and I’d like to see Intel joining the party.
> 
> 
> ...



This is G-Sync vs FreeSync again.
History really repeats itself.


----------



## elghinnarisa (Jun 23, 2021)

Evil Genius 2 added support as well, I just noticed. For those who might own that game.


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## Max(IT) (Jun 23, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> More FPS = more CPU load. But I don't think that's what you're asking. The FSR shader code runs almost completely on the GPU, it has no significant CPU overhead. We asked this in AMD's briefing call


yep, but that's not the only factor involved.
Even if the shader code runs on the GPU, rendering at lower resolution puts a strain on the CPU anyway. I think that systems with an old CPU could encounter bottleneck, just like it's happening with DLSS.



The red spirit said:


> Personally, FSR looks better than DLSS 2.0. Even RIS looked better than DLSS 1.0.



based on what ? Where did you see a direct comparison between the twos ?


----------



## ratirt (Jun 23, 2021)

Really positively surprised with what the FSR offers. I was hoping for less. 
tested it with the God Fall and there is literally no difference between native and Ultra quality but the FPS boost is there.


----------



## defaultluser (Jun 23, 2021)

For anyone  curious, I got a performance bump under Riftbreaker oon my ancient GTX 960!

Native 4k, hi settings: 22 fps

hsr quality: 33 fps

hsr ultra: 27.fps

Thais a 20 and 50 percent performance bump!  Maxwell rides again!

Hoping for the near future:  sweetfx insertion into any game ( then I could max-out horizon zero dawn targeting 1080p ( at around 40  fps  (* using quality)_


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## turbogear (Jun 23, 2021)

defaultluser said:


> For anyone  curious, I got a performance bump under Riftbreaker oon my ancient GTX 960!
> 
> Native 4k, hi settings: 22 fps
> 
> ...


Good news indeed.
Never thought AMD would release a piece of software that also benefits Nvidia.  
I hope Nvidia does the same some day for AMD, but maybe I am dreaming. 

I just sold 1070Ti from my son's computer because he moved to 6800XT.
Now looking at this maybe we should have kept it.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 23, 2021)

turbogear said:


> Good news indeed.
> Never thought AMD would release a piece of software that also benefits Nvidia.
> I hope Nvidia does the same some day for AMD, but maybe I am dreaming.
> 
> ...


If I were to expect a company releasing software or a feature that would benefit competing company it would have been AMD. 

You might have gotten away with the 1070Ti now  
I need to get the 5600XT tested in my older build. That might be interesting.


----------



## W1zzard (Jun 23, 2021)

Max(IT) said:


> Even if the shader code runs on the GPU, rendering at lower resolution puts a strain on the CPU anyway


At same FPS, the CPU load should be the same. the causality is: lower resolution -> lower GPU load per frame -> higher FPS -> higher CPU load


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## Xuper (Jun 23, 2021)

Why did DF compare TAAU with FSR performance not ultra quality ?


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## The red spirit (Jun 23, 2021)

Max(IT) said:


> based on what ? Where did you see a direct comparison between the twos ?


Dude this is 2021 and we aren't on dial up anymore. You can find such stuff on internet and particularly on Youtube. Here RIS vs DLSS 1:









DLSS is interesting and real upscaler, but it had its faults and RIS was overall more useful technology and it looked better. However, DLSS is likely better at stupidly low resolutions:









FSR vs DLSS 2:









They are both pretty good, but it seems that AMD's FSR is better during motion and beyond that, it works on so much more hardware and likely will be way better supported than DLSS. It also doesn't need any extra hardware, thus it avoids RTX tax. Visually, FSR at Ultra Quality sometimes looks even better than Native 4K, meanwhile DLSS just tries to look not worse than 4K. In terms of pure visual quality FSR seems to be a tiny bit better, but in terms of practicality and availability, FSR undoubtedly beats DLSS. Also bonus points for AMD for not marketing it as mandatory to enjoy ray tracing at high fps. And on top of that, you can use FSR on performance and use RIS on top of it to give games extra performance and extra sharpness. DLSS doesn't have any sharpness slider or any adjustment beyond resolution, so FSR is more versatile too. The only cool thing about owning nVidia card right now is potential for combining DLSS with FSR, but that requires developers to implement them both in same game and it's unknown if that would help or be the worst of both. Anyway, FSR seems to be better at every front when compared to DLSS 2.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 23, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> Anyway, FSR seems to be better at every front when compared to DLSS 2.


I think you have exaggerated a little bit. FSR is not better on every front but it is very good. I only hope we will see more devs implement this in wider range of games but I think this is going to happen.


----------



## Hyderz (Jun 23, 2021)

quality mode seems good to me... i dont have any of those titles to try on my 1070ti and 1050 
nvm will wait for more supported titles , i like this fsr gives good performance and picture quality is fantastic...


----------



## nguyen (Jun 23, 2021)

Well boys, seems like Nvidia just redid the whole RIS thing with FSR, now Nvidia call it Sharpen+ filter (which is only accessible via GFE overlay on the newest 471.11 driver).
This Sharpen+ filter is seriously capable, it can be applied to every 3D game and fully adjustable with sharpen intensity and texture details.
Nvidia users should try this Sharpen+ filter out for themselves

I have tried AC Valhalla with 4K Native and Upscaled 1440p with Sharpen+







I highly doubt this Upscaled 1440p with Sharpen+ would look any different to 4K FSR Quality, did Nvidia just import FSR code into their Sharpen+ filter?
Also in CP2077, 4K DLSS Performance with Sharpen+ actually make it look identical to 4K Native (with a 130% perf bonus compare to 4K Native)


----------



## nikoya (Jun 23, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> More FPS = more CPU load. But I don't think that's what you're asking. The FSR shader code runs almost completely on the GPU, it has no significant CPU overhead. We asked this in AMD's briefing call


ah yes exactly want I wanted to ask, great ! thx for the answer !


----------



## z1n0x (Jun 23, 2021)

Xuper said:


> Why did DF compare TAAU with FSR performance not ultra quality ?


You should be abled to answer that yourself. 
Also, all of a sudden Digital Foundry remembered their is this thing called TAAU, which existed before DLSS 1.0, pretty funny i must say.


----------



## The red spirit (Jun 23, 2021)

ratirt said:


> I think you have exaggerated a little bit. FSR is not better on every front but it is very good. I only hope we will see more devs implement this in wider range of games but I think this is going to happen.


And where exactly it is worse than DLSS 2?


----------



## ratirt (Jun 23, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> And where exactly it is worse than DLSS 2?


For instance, if you compare (however you can compare) lower native resolution like 1080p and upscale it , DLSS is better. The higher the resolution FSR does a better job. 
At least that's what the initial reviews pointed out.


----------



## Max(IT) (Jun 23, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> At same FPS, the CPU load should be the same. the causality is: lower resolution -> lower GPU load per frame -> higher FPS -> higher CPU load


but the FPS are not the same , using FSR. It is higher 
According to my experience with DLSS, those features have a CPU impact. If the CPU is powerful enough, it is negligible, but for those that are hoping to give new life to quite old systems, it could be not so good.


----------



## turbogear (Jun 23, 2021)

ratirt said:


> Really positively surprised with what the FSR offers. I was hoping for less.
> tested it with the God Fall and there is literally no difference between native and Ultra quality but the FPS boost is there.


Thanks for providing the feedback.
That's really nice that you did not observe any degradation in image quality.
I am also thinking of buying this game.  
Like you told me last time, this game sounds like fun.



ratirt said:


> If I were to expect a company releasing software or a feature that would benefit competing company it would have been AMD.
> 
> You might have gotten away with the 1070Ti now
> I need to get the 5600XT tested in my older build. That might be interesting.


Yes my son had an older computer with i7 7700K and 1070Ti.
He was more into PS4 Pro gaming.
Now he is moving to PC gaming and cost me some money   to get complete AMD platform with 5800X, 6800XT on x570 mainboard for him.
But prices are good for old GPUs on eBay. I sold the 1070Ti for 350€. It was bought for 400€ three years ago.
Still need to sell his old ASUS Maximus mainboard, i7 7700K and 16GB ram.


----------



## Max(IT) (Jun 23, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> Dude this is 2021 and we aren't on dial up anymore. You can find such stuff on internet and particularly on Youtube. Here RIS vs DLSS 1:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i don't need your sarcasm about the year we are.

I ask you againg: could you show me the DIRECT comparison between FSR and DLSS 2.0, in the same screenshot.
Because the video you linked are not showing any.
They are showing DLSS or FSR, not the twos in the same game.

Thank you.


----------



## wolf (Jun 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> I am not gonna lie it's pretty hilarious to see an objectively superior alternative to a closed source technology running on your competitors hardware which didn't even support said technology.


I'm curious as to what, in your eyes, overarchingly makes it "objectively" superior.

Easy to implement and open source don't give it objectively superior image quality, for example. But if you were say, someone who dislikes any form of TAA, I could see it being superior from that perspective. Where if you prefer the preservation of fine detail or text sharpness, it would be objectively inferior, in that aspect of image quality, to some alternatives. Perhaps objectively supe8in that it's much easier to implement and runs in anything? 

I'm not here like this isn't a massive win for literally everyone with a reasonably modern gfx card mind you, just want to unpack that statement a bit, as there are many factors to consider, with different weighting.


----------



## The red spirit (Jun 23, 2021)

Max(IT) said:


> i don't need your sarcasm about the year we are.
> 
> I ask you againg: could you show me the DIRECT comparison between FSR and DLSS 2.0, in the same screenshot.
> Because the video you linked are not showing any.
> ...


Literally the last video has a small section of direct FSR and DLSS 2 comparison. Like I said, we aren't in dial-up era and you can google anything that you want yourself.


----------



## Camm (Jun 23, 2021)

Ikaruga said:


> Please allow me to ignore the baseless personal insult part of your internet manifestation, I won't go that deep, sorry.
> That being said, if I understand right, DLSS reconstructs and supersamples while FSR upscales, hence my post about comparision, my opinion is that it's not comparable at this time, and reviews should not handle them on the same level.
> I would be the happiest if AMD would offer better streaming options, better ray tracing options, better DLSS options, etc... but so far they only offer better rasterization speeds. I honestly hope they will do, because that would mean more competition which would lead to lower prices and better products for us, customers.
> I just pointed out that we should still stay objective while we are at it.



DLSS 1.0 was a Spatial + GAN regen. DLSS 2.0 is Temporal + General GAN + Motion Vector data to try and reduce false hits by the GAN causing excessive false data (this is why DLSS 2.0 upscales so well, but smears to shit in motion).

FSR is Spatial + Adaptive Sharpening.

Honestly, if AMD can do this much without the requirement for any GAN model or previous frame data Nvidia should be worried. AMD's Spatial is miles ahead of DLSS 1.0's try at doing the same, and its sharpening is top notch.

As it stands, it appears DLSS 2.0 is the image quality king, but FSR is the image stability in motion master. AMD patents leaked may also show where this is going next. I commented on this and what it might be positing.

AMD's 2019 "Gaming Super Resolution" Patent Could be the Blueprint for FidelityFX Super Resolution? | TechPowerUp Forums



Camm said:


> The approach looks really smart IMO, use an algorithmic upscale for the broad image and apply DNN for detail restoration.
> 
> The talk of ground-truth for DNN sounds like AMD might be 'resolution spiking' every x amount of frames to provide reference data back to the DNN, which I'm intrigued to see if so what impact it may have on frame time.



If we look at FSR, it looks suspiciously like AMD just delivered for algorithmic upscale for the broad image. Next stage would be applying a DNN for detail restoration.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 23, 2021)

wolf said:


> Easy to implement and open source don't give it objectively superior image quality


@Vya Domus hasn't mentioned superior image quality but superior in general. Probably because of the easy implementation.


----------



## wolf (Jun 23, 2021)

ratirt said:


> @Vya Domus hasn't mentioned superior image quality but superior in general. Probably because of the easy implementation.


I guess my point is saying objectively superior overall is quite vague and doesn't tell the whole story when in reality the story has a lot of elements and is far more nuanced. 'easier to implement' makes it objectively superior in ease of implementation, not requiring speicifc hardware makes it objectively superior in compatibility, but to say that those things alone make it objectively superior is borderline purposely vague and misleading when there are multiple other existing techniques around that trade blows across the spectrum of characteristics, including implementation, hardware requirements and IQ.


----------



## Vya Domus (Jun 23, 2021)

wolf said:


> I'm curious as to what, in your eyes, overarchingly makes it "objectively" superior.


Straight forward implementation, can work on basically any hardware and achieves comparable image quality and performance with DLSS.



wolf said:


> Where if you prefer the preservation of fine detail or text sharpness, it would be objectively inferior, in that aspect of image quality, to some alternatives.



That's straight up false though, if you use the maximum quality setting it often looks sharper and cleaner than native.


----------



## Max(IT) (Jun 23, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> Literally the last video has a small section of direct FSR and DLSS 2 comparison. Like I said, we aren't in dial-up era and you can google anything that you want yourself.


did you watch the video ?
Maybe it's me but I cant find any direct comparison


----------



## Parn (Jun 23, 2021)

Looks very promising. Perfect timing to release this during the current GPU shortage. For those who are still stuck with their old cards because upgrades aren't available at their MSRP, this is a godsend if they want to play new titles.


----------



## Camm (Jun 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> That's straight up false though, if you use the maximum quality setting it often looks sharper and cleaner than native.



Don't confuse clearer than native with fucking awful Temporal implementations. Both Death Stranding & Control have awful native Temporal implementations which destroy IQ. Funnily enough, DLSS does a better job than those fucking travesties, even with an upscale.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 23, 2021)

wolf said:


> I guess my point is saying objectively superior overall is quite vague and doesn't tell the whole story when in reality the story has a lot of elements and is far more nuanced. 'easier to implement' makes it objectively superior in ease of implementation, not requiring speicifc hardware makes it objectively superior in compatibility, but to say that those things alone make it objectively superior is borderline purposely vague and misleading when there are multiple other existing techniques around that trade blows across the spectrum of characteristics, including implementation, hardware requirements and IQ.


I really wonder, what would you say if for instance (and some people has already suggested it) NV opened the DLSS and it would work just fine on the 1000 series cards? Would you say DLSS is better at every aspect? Do you think NV will do it? Any other thoughts if that would be the case? 
Open source superiority is not only to a quality (image quality) perspective but also how many people can actually take advantage of it. The FSR can be used on a lot of graphics cards despite company and that my friend is a huge superiority.


----------



## wolf (Jun 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> That's straight up false though, if you use the maximum quality setting it often looks sharper and cleaner than native.


I don't think we're looking at the same content, yet to see one ultra quality VS native comparison that looks sharper and clear than native.


ratirt said:


> I really wonder, what would you say if for instance (and some people has already suggested it) NV opened the DLSS and it would work just fine on the 1000 series cards? Would you say DLSS is better at every aspect? Do you think NV will do it? Any other thoughts if that would be the case?
> Open source superiority is not only to a quality (image quality) perspective but also how many people can actually take advantage of it. The FSR can be used on a lot of graphics cards despite company and that my friend is a huge superiority.


I don't think they can or will open DLSS 2.0+ on pre 20 series cards no. It would be cool though, even if the results weren't as robust.

I see nvidia more doing their own implementation / adaptation of FSR as a lower tier DLSS, I think there's already talk that their Sharpen+ filter may use similar algorithms


Vya Domus said:


> Straight forward implementation, can work on basically any hardware and achieves comparable image quality and performance with DLSS.


I'm not only talking about DLSS but other built in methods like TAAU, I'm willing to agree on some points, but not image quality - most specifically when viewed across the spectrum of input and output resolutions, not just best case scenarios.

Again, I think this is freaking awesome, but I can't agree on a sweeping, all encompassing statement like objectively superior. I do appreciate the polite and objective discourse though.


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## ratirt (Jun 23, 2021)

wolf said:


> I don't think they can or will open DLSS 2.0+ on pre 20 series cards no. It would be cool though, even if the results weren't as robust.
> 
> I see nvidia more doing their own implementation / adaptation of FSR as a lower tier DLSS, I think there's already talk that their Sharpen+ filter may use similar algorithms


I'd like to see NV's kind of FSR implementation in terms of supporting all modern GPUs. If that is going to be the case then you can easily say DLSS is going to be put on a back-burner or even dropped.


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## wolf (Jun 23, 2021)

ratirt said:


> I'd like to see NV's kind of FSR implementation in terms of supporting all modern GPUs. If that is going to be the case then you can easily say DLSS is going to be put on a back-burner or even dropped.


Maybe? It depends on how well it's done, and we're not at the end of the road for DLSS refinement and adoption yet either, if it is going to die, imo we haven't seen its peak yet. In any case I'm more here to talk FSR.


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## ratirt (Jun 23, 2021)

wolf said:


> Maybe? It depends on how well it's done, and we're not at the end of the road for DLSS refinement and adoption yet either, if it is going to die, imo we haven't seen its peak yet. In any case I'm more here to talk FSR.


Yeah, we haven't seen it's peak yet and you already say NV is going to switch direction from proprietary DLSS to something open working across different graphics already. What's the conclusion for DLSS here then? Prosperity or ditch?


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## beautyless (Jun 23, 2021)

Partner saying.


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## wolf (Jun 23, 2021)

ratirt said:


> Yeah, we haven't seen it's peak yet and you already say NV is going to switch direction from proprietary DLSS to something open working across different graphics already. What's the conclusion for DLSS here then? Prosperity or ditch?


You asked me a what if question, so I gave a hypothetical answer. I think if they did that, it would be noticeably worse IQ than DLSS, but they might just sit back and let AMD / game devs do the work, who knows. 

Hypothetically, if they made their own FSR equivalent which did not need tensor cores, *and* it had comparable IQ, then yeah maybe that would be the end of DLSS - as we know it today. If DLSS as we know it were to retain a distinct IQ advantage, especially in the lower resolution teirs, I could well stick around longer. I dunno man I don't have a crystal ball, I'm just happy I even got an RTX3080 and get to play with them all for years to come.


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## Vya Domus (Jun 23, 2021)

wolf said:


> I don't think we're looking at the same content, yet to see one ultra quality VS native comparison that looks sharper and clear than native.



Really ? https://www.techpowerup.com/review/...solution-quality-performance-benchmark/6.html

Look on the brick walls in the background, it's extremely obvious that the highest quality mode looks cleaner and sharper. I think this is pretty funny, it's the complete opposite of when DLSS was released and people didn't want to admit that it looked like rubbish, now they don't want to admit that FSR looks good.


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## ratirt (Jun 23, 2021)

wolf said:


> You asked me a what if question, so I gave a hypothetical answer. I think if they did that, it would be noticeably worse IQ than DLSS, but they might just sit back and let AMD / game devs do the work, who knows.
> 
> Hypothetically, if they made their own FSR equivalent which did not need tensor cores, *and* it had comparable IQ, then yeah maybe that would be the end of DLSS - as we know it today. If DLSS as we know it were to retain a distinct IQ advantage, especially in the lower resolution teirs, I could well stick around longer. I dunno man I don't have a crystal ball, I'm just happy I even got an RTX3080 and get to play with them all for years to come.


So there are no plans for NV creating an open hardware independent DLSS equivalent? 
If that is the case then FSR is/will be superior in my eyes and in eye of a lot of developers. For devs it is simple extrapolation, feature that can be used by more users, more willingly will buy the product, easier to handle, which means more money coming in. Call it what you will but the FSR looks great in my opinion. DLSS 2.0 may be a notch better in some cases but still not by much and availability, good quality nonetheless and ease of implementation is a huge pro in my eyes contrary to DLSS difficulty, resources put and limited to certain hardware only.


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## wolf (Jun 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Really ? https://www.techpowerup.com/review/...solution-quality-performance-benchmark/6.html
> 
> Look on the brick walls in the background, it's extremely obvious that the highest quality mode looks cleaner and sharper. I think this is pretty funny, it's the complete opposite of when DLSS was released and people didn't want to admit that it looked like rubbish, now they don't want to admit that FSR looks good.


Not sure how I missed it but I'll give you that one, it does seem mostly due to the Sharpen filter doing its job well, and I use Sharpen filters on the majority of games I play these days, upscaled or native.

It is funny I guess, I didn't really like dlss at release but didn't have a 20 series card either, only 30 series and 2.0+ games. What I find funny is similar types of people with different preferences didn't want to admit DLSS 2.0 looked good, or even worth enabling on a balance of IQ : FPS because of personal preferences and nitpicking drawbacks, but are very happy to take some visual drawbacks in FSR, perhaps because it's free? It certainly has some bonus points in its favour. 

I do think FSR looks good, I said it on these very forums that my bar for success is being better than simple Upscaling like just lowering render resolution, and indeed it does seem to be all things considered, and easy to imp makes it an immediate success and great feature, you'd be a fool to deny it. More options to tweak performance and IQ should be welcomed with open arms.


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## ratirt (Jun 23, 2021)

wolf said:


> It is funny I guess, I didn't really like dlss at release but didn't have a 20 series card either, only 30 series and 2.0+ games. What I find funny is similar types of people with different preferences didn't want to admit DLSS 2.0 looked good, or even worth enabling on a balance of IQ : FPS because of personal preferences and nitpicking drawbacks, but are very happy to take some visual drawbacks in FSR.


You should not listen to these people. DLSS 2.0 is very good. Of course one implementation can differ from the other (native 4k image in one game can differ from a 4k image in a different game) and thus the DLSS 2.0 implementation can look better or worse in one game than the other.

FSR does look good and I'm waiting for more games supporting it. If AMD pulls all the stops it might look even better in time. The first implementation is great and I hope we will see more and better.


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## medi01 (Jun 23, 2021)

matar said:


> Thanks AMD for including Nvidia support too.


As per reddit, it runs on Haswell IGP too...



Ikaruga said:


> *supersamples *while FSR upscales


I don't think this word means what you think it means.
Supersampling is the opposite of upscaling, it is going from higher resol


elghinnarisa said:


> Evil Genius 2 added support as well, I just noticed. For those who might own that game.
> View attachment 205075


I think one of the game devs commented that it took him about 2 hours to integrate FSR.
Great stuff.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jun 23, 2021)

Ikaruga said:


> my opinion is that it's not comparable at this time, and reviews should not handle them on the same level.


should of said that in the beginning, if you more clear I wouldnt have replied as I did. 

They are not comparable because they process differently, achieving similar results.


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## Vya Domus (Jun 23, 2021)

wolf said:


> Not sure how I missed it but I'll give you that one, it does seem mostly due to the Sharpen filter doing its job well, and I use Sharpen filters on the majority of games I play these days, upscaled or native.



How do you know what's sharpened up and what isn't ?


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## Legacy-ZA (Jun 23, 2021)

Where can I download AMDs FSR? I want to try it on my antique.


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## Auer (Jun 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> How do you know what's sharpened up and what isn't ?


This is basically just AMD's existing CAS, part of the whole FSR deal.
It's always there.


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## Vya Domus (Jun 23, 2021)

Auer said:


> This is basically just AMD's existing CAS, part of the whole FSR deal.
> It's always there.



I know it's there, I am asking how would one know looking at an image if there is actual detail in it or it's just sharpened.


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## Auer (Jun 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> I know it's there, I am asking how would one know looking at an image if there is actu


FSR is incapable of adding detail. If it looks like there is more than in native then it's because of sharpening.


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## The red spirit (Jun 23, 2021)

Max(IT) said:


> did you watch the video ?
> Maybe it's me but I cant find any direct comparison


That's as direct as it gets now. FSR isn't yet supported in many titles and you can't directly compare them. But really, why does it matter if titles are different? Just look at how upscaling looks like and  compare them. IMO FSR ones look better, because part of FSR was their previous "sort of the same" RIS, which was pretty good at highlighting existing details in games, but it didn't add higher resolution details. And now it does. FSR is pretty good and its simplicity allows it to work predictably well, meanwhile nVidia's DLSS 2 still feels a bit like dumb AI that is unpredictable and overall not so nice. At static images, FSR is still slightly better, because RIS wasn't just dumb oversharpener and thus with FSR you end up with upscaled and then smartly sharpened image. Unsurprisingly end result looks as good as native resolution or even better than native at high quality preset and even high performance preset (which tries to upscale really low resolution but with same mechanism) ends up looking better than just dropping resolution by one.


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## Punkenjoy (Jun 23, 2021)

Correct, sharpening can make detail appear more. But this is more effective at higher resolution. At lower resolution, there isn't just enough pixel to sharpen effectively. It can't make new details appear.

DLSS use multiple frame and it look like, from bugged DLSS footage that it move the render frame up/down/left/right a slight bit each frame to try to make some details appear by shifting the grid a bit. FSR would need to use previous frame and have a temporal factor to be able to achieve the same results. But by doing that, they would be subject to Ghosting on fast movement. I don't like blurred image but i don't like ghosting either. I didn't got a 144Hz monitor to get ghosting from upscaling. 

I just completed the demo of Riftbreaker at 1440p FSR ultra quality and on a 1440p 32 inch monitor (so not super high density) i could say if it was FSR or native. But the frame rate with max detail was much higher indeed. 

FSR is simple to implement, give better result the higher the resolution is. Post process treatment could be made to improve the final results a bit and it's supported everywhere. 
DLSS is limited to RTX, May extract detail that aren't there by using temporal and movement vector but is subject to ghosting. It's hard to implement and Nvidia have to pay game dev to implement it.

I think DLSS will stay as a premium upscaler that Nvidia will pay to put in as many game as they can. But FSR might just become a quick to implement upscaler that everyone can use and could get a lot of usage in independ game giving good results to everyone.


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## Vya Domus (Jun 23, 2021)

Auer said:


> FSR is incapable of adding detail.


It totally is capable of adding in detail, that's the point of super resolution algorithms like these. How accurate the the output image ends up, it's a different matter.


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## medi01 (Jun 23, 2021)

Legacy-ZA said:


> Where can I download AMDs FSR? I want to try it on my antique.


Rift Breaker free demo is on Steam, it has FSR.


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## KarymidoN (Jun 23, 2021)

Thanks AMD, now lets try to pressure the industry in to adopting FSR ASAP!


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## Legacy-ZA (Jun 23, 2021)

medi01 said:


> Rift Breaker free demo is on Steam, it has FSR.



Thank you, I am downloading that now, I just need to find the actual software on AMDs site, maybe I am just not seeing it? Or do I need to download the whole driver to get it?


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## W1zzard (Jun 23, 2021)

Legacy-ZA said:


> Thank you, I am downloading that now, I just need to find the actual software on AMDs site, maybe I am just not seeing it? Or do I need to download the whole driver to get it?


Technically no driver support is required for FSR, it's just standard shaders, that's why it works on non-AMD GPUs. The new AMD driver has performance optimizations for FSR though, but an older driver version will work for testing, too, especially if you're only interested in the visual quality


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## Auer (Jun 23, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> It totally is capable of adding in detail, that's the point of super resolution algorithms like these. How accurate the the output image ends up, it's a different matter.


" One is an upscaling pass, which uses a spatial upscaling algorithm that detects the edges in the image and sharpens them, *while attempting to preserve details*, and the other is a sharpening pass, which "adds" crispness to textures to improve image quality."









						AMD FSR FidelityFX Super Resolution Quality & Performance Review
					

Finally! AMD has its NVIDIA DLSS competitor ready, and it even works on NVIDIA cards. We're testing the company's new super-resolution technology in five games. The comparison images in our AMD FSR review let you dig into all the finer details, and our performance results cover multiple...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Max(IT) (Jun 23, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> That's as direct as it gets now. FSR isn't yet supported in many titles and you can't directly compare them. But really, why does it matter if titles are different? Just look at how upscaling looks like and  compare them. IMO FSR ones look better, because part of FSR was their previous "sort of the same" RIS, which was pretty good at highlighting existing details in games, but it didn't add higher resolution details. And now it does. FSR is pretty good and its simplicity allows it to work predictably well, meanwhile nVidia's DLSS 2 still feels a bit like dumb AI that is unpredictable and overall not so nice. At static images, FSR is still slightly better, because RIS wasn't just dumb oversharpener and thus with FSR you end up with upscaled and then smartly sharpened image. Unsurprisingly end result looks as good as native resolution or even better than native at high quality preset and even high performance preset (which tries to upscale really low resolution but with same mechanism) ends up looking better than just dropping resolution by one.


so basically you have been ironic based on NOTHING, since in the video at min. 24:26 he clearly states that they CANNOT provide for direct comparison on the same game.

I'm start understanding : FSR is better because is made by AMD.


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## The red spirit (Jun 23, 2021)

Max(IT) said:


> so basically you have been ironic based on NOTHING, since in the video at min. 24:26 he clearly states that they CANNOT provide for direct comparison on the same game.
> 
> I'm start understanding : FSR is better because is made by AMD.


Well whatever, all my reasoning is lost on you. As far as we can see right now, in terms of upscaling quality regardless of titles, FSR is a bit better.


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## Max(IT) (Jun 23, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> Well whatever, all my reasoning is lost on you. As far as we can see right now, in terms of upscaling quality regardless of titles, FSR is a bit better.


Dude (since you started this way), I'm not saying DLSS is better, and in my previous post I also stated that even if DLSS would be slightly better (as I presume), FSR would be a win because of its "free for all nature".
I just don't like biased comments based on nothing...
When we would be able to see a side by side screenshot, then we will see what is better (and even in that case I think the situation could change just by looking at another frame).


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## The red spirit (Jun 23, 2021)

Max(IT) said:


> Dude (since you started this way), I'm not saying DLSS is better, and in my previous post I also stated that even if DLSS would be slightly better (as I presume), FSR would be a win because of its "free for all nature".
> I just don't like biased comments based on nothing...
> When we would be able to see a side by side screenshot, then we will see what is better (and even in that case I think the situation could change just by looking at another frame).


I'm not saying that FSR is better, because it's free for all if that was taken into account then DLSS is already dead. I was talking about pure imagine quality and I think that FSR is better. I own RX 580 and I played a bit with RIS and it can make image quality better than native and FSR is RIS+ some upscaling extras, making FSR very capable and yet rather simple technology. In theory it shouldn't lose details even during motion, which has been historically poor aspect of DLSS.


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## Deleted member 190774 (Jun 23, 2021)

Auer said:


> FSR is incapable of adding detail. If it looks like there is more than in native then it's because of sharpening.


What do you call blur then? If it wasn't there before, and is afterwards - it was added...


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## InVasMani (Jun 23, 2021)

Post process is like a good musician it's not the instrument it's how you use it in the case of post process in graphics it's how you use the code of options and the algorithms they cleverly utilize.


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## Camm (Jun 24, 2021)

beedoo said:


> What do you call blur then? If it wasn't there before, and is afterwards - it was added...



FSR magnifies deficiencies in the base image which tend to be less pronounced with a native image with the same deficiencies. Its arguably why some form of detail rebuild is important for upscaling.


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## Minus Infinity (Jun 24, 2021)

beedoo said:


> While I do think that FSR is cool - at least for what it does for us right now, I really don't think RDNA3 will be hardware accelerating FSR - at least not FSR as we know it today. I wouldn't be surprised if RDNA3 supports a more ML approach for much improved image quality.


I can only base this on what Lisa Su already told us a few weeks ago: RDNA3 will have hardware accelerated FSR and we do not know what that involves at this stage but I suspect FSR will evolve. Maybe it has NN core like phone SoC?


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## W1zzard (Jun 24, 2021)

Minus Infinity said:


> RDNA3 will have hardware accelerated FSR


Technically every modern GPU has hardware accelerated FSR. The shaders already execute in hardware-very fast and highly parallel. I'm not sure if there's much to be gained from a non-programmable fixed-function unit. A programmable fixed-function unit is a shader core.


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## z1n0x (Jun 24, 2021)

Minus Infinity said:


> I can only base this on what Lisa Su already told us a few weeks ago: RDNA3 will have hardware accelerated FSR and we do not know what that involves at this stage but I suspect FSR will evolve. Maybe it has NN core like phone SoC?


I keep up with the news/rumors and i can't recall Lisa Su saying anything about "hardware accelerated" FSR. Link source.
What i do recall is Moore's Law Is Dead on Youtube claiming that.

Screenshot from gpuopen.com


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## medi01 (Jun 24, 2021)

Woa, DOTA2 released FSR update.

It was among "coming soon" games:


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## KarymidoN (Jun 24, 2021)

medi01 said:


> Woa, DOTA2 released FSR update.
> 
> It was among "coming soon" games:
> 
> View attachment 205224



since it is open source you can expect the modders comunity of some games to add FSR like they add shaders to their favorite games. 
Some developers said something about 2 hours to implement in a game, ofc is easier when you're the dev of the game, but modders are so crafty.


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## medi01 (Jun 24, 2021)

KarymidoN said:


> since it is open source you can expect the modders comunity of some games to add FSR like they add shaders to their favorite games.


It is not open source yet, but it's free and anyone could grab it and slap it into their anything indeed.


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## Camm (Jun 24, 2021)

KarymidoN said:


> since it is open source you can expect the modders comunity of some games to add FSR like they add shaders to their favorite games.
> Some developers said something about 2 hours to implement in a game, ofc is easier when you're the dev of the game, but modders are so crafty.



Reshade *should* be able to inject FSR by the looks. Wouldn't be surprised if Reshade gets support once its open sourced / when AMD open sources it we may get a 'freestyle' style shader option for AMD (this is entirely scuttlebutt on my behalf).


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## Vya Domus (Jun 24, 2021)

Auer said:


> " One is an upscaling pass, which uses a spatial upscaling algorithm that detects the edges in the image and sharpens them, *while attempting to preserve details*, and the other is a sharpening pass, which "adds" crispness to textures to improve image quality."


It's better to just look at AMD's own patent for this :




It's constructing higher resolution images that fit the extracted features from lower resolution input images, hence it adds additional detail or new information or whatever you want to call it. If you want to maintain this stance that it is not adding detail then you have apply this logic to everything else, including DLSS.

Even a straight forward linear interpolation adds new information that wasn't present in the initial image, that's the point of these algorithms otherwise there would be no use for such a thing, it might be rubbish but that's how it works.


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## InVasMani (Jun 24, 2021)

medi01 said:


> Woa, DOTA2 released FSR update.
> 
> It was among "coming soon" games:
> 
> View attachment 205224


Why is Myst on the list was there a remake or something!!!?


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## Punkenjoy (Jun 24, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> Why is Myst on the list was there a remake or something!!!?


Yes, there is an actual remake in the pipeline that will run in real time 3D instead of Pre-rendered 3D.


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## Auer (Jun 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> It's better to just look at AMD's own patent for this :
> View attachment 205226
> 
> It's constructing higher resolution images that fit the extracted features from lower resolution input images, hence it adds additional detail or new information or whatever you want to call it. If you want to maintain this stance that it is not adding detail then you have apply this logic to everything else, including DLSS.
> ...


Adding more information does not equal detail.
But I'm not gonna keep beating this anymore.


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## InVasMani (Jun 24, 2021)

Camm said:


> Reshade *should* be able to inject FSR by the looks. Wouldn't be surprised if Reshade gets support once its open sourced / when AMD open sources it we may get a 'freestyle' style shader option for AMD (this is entirely scuttlebutt on my behalf).


It basically already does AMD's contrast adaptive sharpen which is a big portion of FSR was already ported to Reshade for awhile now. I literally already showed a link to a example of it in this thread earlier already. Even at 720p it's readily noticeable. In fact I did a bit of testing and compared CAS enabled with texture quality reduced by half and it subjectively was overall better in quality. I'm not entirely how big the ramifications of that are at higher resolutions I tested it at 720p, but I imagine it's pretty big. I might have to revisit that scene and try it again at a higher resolution. 

The big difference is the shading and lighting greatly improved. I've been trying to improve my configuration further experimenting with it I want to try to get improved results at even lower resolutions like 576p because it'll translate into bigger gains at higher resolutions. I've found that as I improve my post process techniques I've been able to generally reduce the CPU/GPU overhead as well required to get the type of results I want and with less unnatural jarring side effects at the same time.


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## Auer (Jun 24, 2021)




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## KarymidoN (Jun 24, 2021)

medi01 said:


> It is not open source yet, but it's free and anyone could grab it and slap it into their anything indeed.



Well, it will be available soon™.









						AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution is coming soon to GPUOpen
					

We're very excited to share some early details for developers about our upcoming AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution.




					gpuopen.com


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## Vya Domus (Jun 24, 2021)

Auer said:


> Adding more information does not equal detail.


This makes zero sense.

You’re telling me this piece of software adds what then if not detail aka information ? Noise ?


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## InVasMani (Jun 24, 2021)

It sure looks like it adds information...

Default...





AMD based contrast adaptive sharpen at half the texture resolution....





You tell me which looks better default or contrast adaptive sharpen...to me subjectively the default looks overall worse sure there are differences you can point to, but overall which would you pick. I can point out more upside than downside with the CAS options...there is also this...

CAS with the shame texture resolution as the default...if you really think it doesn't look any better or add any information I think you're a little bit crazy. I mean it doesn't upscale the pixel size at least not on it's own with just CAS, but it absolutely improves the overall colors space to provide richer scene detail. I also don't see any obvious halo ringing effect. I mean you can pretend because it's not DLSS it does nothing and sucks, but in reality it does a lot for free for a lot of people and is perceptibly a winning improvement and no janky blur or in motion temporal nausea at the same time.


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## Punkenjoy (Jun 24, 2021)

When they say DLSS is adding more details, what most people say is details that are too small and not on the right grid to appear in the native image or the lower res image before upscaling. 

DLSS using Temporal AA and a method of switching the grid each frame, is able to display these details that otherwise wouldn't appear. 

FSR can only enhance what it's already there but lets say there is a cable far away that is less than 1 pixel wide at 1440p, the lower res version will have no data to extract from it. 

But FSR add information to a frame by using their extrapolation and sharpening technique. So both of you are right on your own.


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## InVasMani (Jun 24, 2021)

Give it time and I'm sure AMD and developers will improve upon the different aspects that make up FSR as well as add other elements into the fold. It's very open in nature you can already combine TAA with FSR in practice you could do it right now with Rift Breaker injecting TAA with Reshade alongside the FSR nothing is stopping you.

FSR improves performance and looks good, but DLSS uses temporal AA yeah well FSR could too. It could use machine learning as well technically, but doesn't have dedicated hardware for it right now. Still AMD could add ML to their CPU's or APU's or whatever and do just that. It's a pretty good start in either case and seems like a better start than DLSS 1.0 was and is already being pretty widely supported for something that "sucks" at information of things according to some green goblin fanatics. Does FSR hurt your feels that much do you want your money back!!? By the end of the year I wouldn't be shocked if FSR is more widely supported than DLSS.


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## Camm (Jun 24, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> It sure looks like it adds information...
> 
> 
> You tell me which looks better default or contrast adaptive sharpen



I'm not commenting per say (on a technical level any upscale if it isn't integer is adding or subtracting info so take that as you will).

But an interesting test here would be on a 1440p panel, take a screenshot at 1440p native, 4k DSR, 4k DSR FSR, and 2954x1662 DSR then compare data.

You have

A: A native res control image
B: A fully rendered upscaled image which should be integer perfect
(These are your control images)
C: A integer upscaled FSR image
D: A fully rendered FSR native res image.

Between the 4 there, you should be able to tell if FSR adds information. If it doesn't, 4k DSR FSR, and 2954x1662 DSR should look identical minus sharpening.


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## quadibloc (Jun 25, 2021)

It may be that Nvidia's DLSS is better, but as far as I can tell, FSR is definitely good enough. Of course, turning off ray tracing, using a lower resolution, and using lower quality settings are still going to be the options chosen by competitive gamers; their interest will be in things like Nvidia's Reflex technology. But not every video game is Fortnite, people play some types of single-player games looking for an immersive experience, and the highest possible video quality serves that.


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## InVasMani (Jun 25, 2021)

The focus should really be on how can we and developers best take advantage of FSR to improve the free give AMD gave us. Clearly there are ways to improve it. Technically you don't need image to improve upscale and add detail there are other manners of adding detail at the pixel level. The pixel shaders themselves adapt and modify the images themselves so they should be able to do so form the previous shader in a chain of pixel shader configurations in theory if I'm not mistaken. I would think technically the base image would be enough provided your clever enough to manipulate them well in series.


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## Punkenjoy (Jun 25, 2021)

quadibloc said:


> It may be that Nvidia's DLSS is better, but as far as I can tell, FSR is definitely good enough. Of course, turning off ray tracing, using a lower resolution, and using lower quality settings are still going to be the options chosen by competitive gamers; their interest will be in things like Nvidia's Reflex technology. But not every video game is Fortnite, people play some types of single-player games looking for an immersive experience, and the highest possible video quality serves that.


It's all depend on what you judge the upscaling method.

If you judge an upscaling method only by comparing 400x zoomed subpixel detail on screenshot. Yes indeed, if that is the only factor.

But there are way more, Performance, ease of implementation, Game supporting it, Hardware supporting it, Behavior with effect and post-effect, how it react in movement at low or high fps. is it good with low res or require higher res to be effective.

It still a bit soon to determine what would be the winning upscaling method.


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## InVasMani (Jun 25, 2021)

I don't think FSR is perfect or perfected yet, but I think AMD defiantly has knocked it out of the park with FSR just the same with the impact it'll have on many systems around the globe.


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## medi01 (Jun 25, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> Why is Myst on the list was there a remake or something!!!?


Welp, I think the fact that FSR is extremely easy to add to a game, motivated devs to include it into a rather old game.


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## z1n0x (Jun 25, 2021)

DF's Alex shilling way too hard, destroying his own credibility in the process. Amusing to watch.


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## medi01 (Jun 25, 2021)

Punkenjoy said:


> FSR can only enhance what it's already there but lets say there is a cable far away that is less than 1 pixel wide at 1440p, the lower res version will have no data to extract from it.


This is true indeed. But if it is less than 1 pixel at 1440p, it is just 1 pixel at 4k, something barely visible anyway.

On top of it, "ultra" quality renders at resolution higher than 1440p (which is 2.2 times less pixels than 4k), it renders at resolution that is only 1.3 times behind.



quadibloc said:


> their interest will be in things like Nvidia's Reflex


This is outright insulting to read on a  tech forum.
NV's reflex is copypasta of AMD's Anti-Lag, on top of having nothing to do with upscaling.


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## Auer (Jun 25, 2021)

Console Tech









						AMD FSR FidelityFX Super Resolution is Coming to Xbox Consoles
					

Just a few days ago, we have reviewed AMD's FidelityFX Super Resolution technology, which represents an answer to NVIDIA's Deep Learning Super Sampling technology used to upscale images t certain resolutions. As the review predicted, AMD's presence in consoles like PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## wolf (Jun 29, 2021)

Contains a lengthy discussion on the controversy of the DF video, with some interesting points made.


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## Punkenjoy (Jun 29, 2021)

They still omit the big downside of TAA. TAA can interfere with many effects due to his temporal nature and not every one want to have to deal with that. FSR is intended to be a easy to use upscaler that devs don't have to worry to much about it and make it in the game easily. 

I don't think big AAA studios, except being paid by AMD would use that if they can have TAA Upscaler already covered. The whole point of AMD was to have a easy solution that dev can implement easily and get some mind share. The way FSR work, it can be put into any 3d game easily without artefact. 

So that is back to the point on what you judge your Upscaler. If it's only image quality, FSR would probably lose, but if it's just to provide the ability to do resolution scaling in a game that don't have it. Just getting that would be great. 

But would i prefer UE 5 TAA U ? probably, but far from all game would be make with that. There would probably be UE 4 engine game for year and their TAA U isn't working perfectly.


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## z1n0x (Jul 3, 2021)

https://wccftech.com/edge-of-eternity-tech-qa-dev-on-amd-fsr-vs-nvidia-dlss-ps5-vs-xsx-and-more/


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## The red spirit (Jul 3, 2021)

Punkenjoy said:


> I don't think big AAA studios, except being paid by AMD would use that if they can have TAA Upscaler already covered. The whole point of AMD was to have a easy solution that dev can implement easily and get some mind share. The way FSR work, it can be put into any 3d game easily without artefact.


That's pretty much what AMD RIS did.


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## watzupken (Jul 13, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> Give it time and I'm sure AMD and developers will improve upon the different aspects that make up FSR as well as add other elements into the fold. It's very open in nature you can already combine TAA with FSR in practice you could do it right now with Rift Breaker injecting TAA with Reshade alongside the FSR nothing is stopping you.
> 
> FSR improves performance and looks good, but DLSS uses temporal AA yeah well FSR could too. It could use machine learning as well technically, but doesn't have dedicated hardware for it right now. Still AMD could add ML to their CPU's or APU's or whatever and do just that. It's a pretty good start in either case and seems like a better start than DLSS 1.0 was and is already being pretty widely supported for something that "sucks" at information of things according to some green goblin fanatics. Does FSR hurt your feels that much do you want your money back!!? By the end of the year I wouldn't be shocked if FSR is more widely supported than DLSS.


In my opinion, FSR or DLSS each have their pros and cons. Image quality wise, DLSS seems to have the edge because of the complexity of the implementation. Ultimately, both methods give us improved performance without sacrificing too much in terms of visuals, which I think is a win. Even for people who own a shiny new RTX 3000 series or the older 2000 series, FSR is a good fallback in case a game doesn't support DLSS. As an owner of a RTX 3000 series card, I am not complaining. And knowing Nvidia, at some point they will drop support for older cards, which by then if FSR is still around, it could benefit even current Ampere users in the long run. After all, using FSR is better than lowering the native resolution or graphical settings, if your GPU is struggling.


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## wolf (Jul 19, 2021)

> How do you know what's sharpened up and what isn't ?





Auer said:


> This is basically just AMD's existing CAS, part of the whole FSR deal.
> It's always there.


Indeed, it's how it works, if it looks sharper than native, I'm going to go with it was sharpened.


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## beautyless (Jul 20, 2021)

Resident Evil Village has FSR already.

R5 2600, 16GB, RX 560 4GB - 1920x1080 - Preset Performance Priority (Low) - Dimitrescu Main Hall
FSR Off - 53fps
FSR Ultra - 69fps
FSR Quality - 79fps
FSR Balanced - 87fps => I can increase graphic to medium & got 65fps.
FSR Performance - 96fps => Feeling like playing SNES emulator with 2D scaling.

Previously, I need to use resolution 1366x768px on medium graphic.
But now, I can play at Full HD medium easily, upgraded from 45-55fps to 65-85fps using FSR Balanced.
The quality of FSR image looking good. Better than 1366x768 and better than low quality graphic at full hd.


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## InVasMani (Jul 20, 2021)

wolf said:


> Indeed, it's how it works, if it looks sharper than native, I'm going to go with it was sharpened.


It's not the size of the sharpen it's how you use it. Nvidia does plenty of sharpening regardless in fact negative LOD bias is a sharpen and recommend for some of it's AA techniques to offset the aggressive blur.


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## Punkenjoy (Jul 20, 2021)

a Bilinear upscale + sharpening do not look as good as FSR with it's own sharpening. Way more artefact.


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## nguyen (Jul 20, 2021)

Punkenjoy said:


> a Bilinear upscale + sharpening do not look as good as FSR with it's own sharpening. Way more artefact.



except that FSR oversharpen the hell outta Necromunda that people gonna think it's Borderlands 4 LMAO 


			Imgsli


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## InVasMani (Jul 20, 2021)

Is this over sharp as well?
RiftBreaker


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## nguyen (Jul 20, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> Is this over sharp as well?
> RiftBreaker



IMO I prefer Native due to color looking more natural, though the CAS is not being over-sharpened as there are no visible haloing, image still look natural as a whole.



			4K - Imgsli
		


No idea why some people would even think 4K FSR UQ look better than 4K DLSS Quality LOL, because FSR somehow made the Symbol of Medicine into flourescence light on a rusty board?


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## InVasMani (Jul 20, 2021)

You just told me that native looks more natural, but CAS was in actually native so yes it was natural as whole quite literally. I used a mean curve blur pass in GIMP with some custom settings for the native. Basically you said you liked blur because the color looking more natural when in fact color was more natural at native which was labeled CAS in the link above.

Below is legitimate comparison between it's the GIMP editor mean curve blur of native against the CAS + DPX reshade setup. I can't notice haloing honestly with it though it's defiantly more sharp slightly. There is a minor tone mapping from the DPX that adds a subtle bit of luminescence that enriches the colors a hint more combined with the linear color space of CAS.

Mean Curve Blur vs CAS + DPX

What I found in testing with rehsade is that the DPX offset some of the contrast portion of CAS to get it a bit closer to the original scene contrast because it gently darkens or excessively if you go crazy overboard with CAS which you shouldn't less is more for both blur and sharpen. If you can point out obvious haloing with it let me know maybe that's a area that can be improved better though I just don't spot it.


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## nguyen (Jul 20, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> You just told me that native looks more natural, but CAS was in actually native so yes it was natural as whole quite literally. I used a mean curve blur pass in GIMP with some custom settings for the native. Basically you said you liked blur because the color looking more natural when in fact color was more natural at native which was labeled CAS in the link above.
> 
> Below is legitimate comparison between it's the GIMP editor mean curve blur of native against the CAS + DPX reshade setup. I can't notice haloing honestly with it though it's defiantly more sharp slightly. There is a minor tone mapping from the DPX that adds a subtle bit of luminescence that enriches the colors a hint more combined with the linear color space of CAS.
> 
> ...



Well I did say the CAS one look natural, just that I like the color gradation (or anti-aliasing property) of the one you label Native, personal preference I guess..
Basically all edges with FSR in Necromunda have black, heavily contrasted outline which are artifacts from being oversharpened (halo), it make the entire image look flat and lose sense of depth, also it looks cartoony. I don't know if a blur filter can fix an oversharpened image?



			((RiftBreaker)) - Imgsli
		

I can't tell any sharpness difference between the two and there are no sharpen artifacts, just that CAS+DPX colors look more vibrant so to me CAS+DPX looks ever slightly better.


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## Aquinus (Jul 20, 2021)

I think I'm going to have to test this out. I typically run DOTA 2 at half resolution (1440p) on my 5k displays because the Radeon Pro 5600M can't handle much at full resolution aside from Factorio, Rimworld, or Diablo 3 and I noticed the option for FSR became available.


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## InVasMani (Jul 20, 2021)

Something I haven't tried with FSR is combined it with DSR x4.00 of 1080p to upscale to 4K then using FSR performance to run 4K at about half the resolution which is give or take 1440p how does that compare with native 1440p on performance and IQ and how does it compare with 1440p with 1080p with FSR ultra? 

On the one hand with DSR you have more pixels to work with for the post process upscale so I'd be keen to compare it.


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## nguyen (Jul 20, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> Something I haven't tried with FSR is combined it with DSR x4.00 of 1080p to upscale to 4K then using FSR performance to run 4K at about half the resolution which is give or take 1440p how does that compare with native 1440p on performance and IQ and how does it compare with 1440p with 1080p with FSR ultra?
> 
> On the one hand with DSR you have more pixels to work with for the post process upscale so I'd be keen to compare it.



4K FSR Performance is upscaled 1080p (50% of width and 50% of height), I would say Native 1440p will look better than 4K FSR Performance


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## mtcn77 (Jul 20, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> Something I haven't tried with FSR is combined it with DSR x4.00 of 1080p to upscale to 4K then using FSR performance to run 4K at about half the resolution which is give or take 1440p how does that compare with native 1440p on performance and IQ and how does it compare with 1440p with 1080p with FSR ultra?
> 
> On the one hand with DSR you have more pixels to work with for the post process upscale so I'd be keen to compare it.


Don't haste. It will eventually come to desktop with checkerboard rendering which is what you are emulating with DSR.
DSR&FSR won't change the basics, but since there will be less texels to pixel, the staircase geometric aliasing will be attenuated which is the case with all good low pass filters.


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## InVasMani (Jul 20, 2021)

Checkerboard rendering like MFAA has some perks though in motion it looks better due to the interpolation since it reduces shimmer.


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## mtcn77 (Jul 20, 2021)

They will customise it with other filters with such strongpoints to overcome it. Such as bilateral filtering. Ringing is a phenomenon of motion shimmering.


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## InVasMani (Jul 20, 2021)

Here's a little comparison of something I cooked up with GIMP. I combined dilate filter with LCh Color at 11.9 opacity value. I wouldn't go higher on the LCh opacity it can start doing some crude things more if you do that become readily noticeable. At the value set or lower I like what it does with color gradients and color values. It's subjective I'd say, but everything about post process is subjective. I ultimately like the compromise however.

RiftBreaker Dilated w/LCh opacity 1.19


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## InVasMani (Jul 29, 2021)

Trying to fine tune CAS configuration further seems to have a bit more clarity, contrast, color vibrancy slightly over default and the previous cas configuration that I was aiming to replace with something improved upon.

NEW CAS SETUP OFF/ON
Skyrim SE - DEFAULT vs CAS + DPX

CAS COMPARISON  OLD/NEW
Skyrim SE - CAS configuration old vs new

Seems like it's a general improvement to me specifically the clarity of the scene depth is better. The screen stills don't really give it full justice given the scene is in motion and it absolutely looks better in motion. I some area's the filtered lighting effect you can notice in area's with it on versus off is pretty impressive with the games god rays.


*Update*
I lowered by the contrast adaptation sharpening amount and intensity a hinter further alongside the other adjustments shown in the two top links which changed some other values. Combined it's a bit less sharpening intensity, but overall the float peak and float3 wRGB were widened a bit so you end up with less sharpening/intensity with better linear color space tone mapping shaping in essence.

OFF/ON
Skyrim SE - CAS

CAS v1.0 vs CAS v2.0 
1.0 vs 2.0

(off/1.0/2.0) Real time fake lighting. Not bad for a mere 3 frames though.


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## InVasMani (Aug 4, 2021)

I created sort of a linear mipmap approach of 6 configurations of CAS and this is how it looks with just CAS versus the default look. The overall overhead on a GTX980 is a dead even 2ms GPU latency on average.

Skyrim SE - Default vs CAS

I can definitely improve a few things, but unless I zoom in I wouldn't be able to tell from a glance outside of the cooler color temperature, but that was somewhat intention however stronger than intended right now with the 6 configurations. There is some halo ringing effect if you zoom in with a photo editor, but at normal distance during game play I can't tell personally. It's noticeably more clear and sharp definitely though I can tell obvious ringing in game in motion myself. Zoomed in I do see some checker board dithering within the texturing that the added sharpening makes a bit more pronounced though. I notice that more readily than halo ringing effect between the two.

I think I need to re-adjust the sharpen intensity linearly downward across the 6 configurations and improve the color temperature a bit further. That said with my 3 configurations of DPX it improves the color temperature matter a lot. Here's how the CAS and DPX looks right now. The 3 configurations of DPX + 6 configurations of CAS is about 3ms GPU latency a slight bit lower since DPX has a bit less overhead than CAS.

Skyrim SE - Default vs CAS + DPX

I find it looks really good with the CAS + DPX though is a bit more hardware taxing still overall pretty low at roughly 3ms. That said you can disable 3 of the CAS configurations and use the DPX in place of them quite easily at around 2ms and have fairly close to the same look while negating a lot of that other issues at the same time.


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## InVasMani (Oct 16, 2021)

Here's a update on a Reshade post process comparison. I have 6 configurations of CAS layers together and compared it against 7 configurations of DPX layers. So how do they stack up!? I don't know you tell me. Which would you prefer!? Now look careful as well at the top left corner FPS 42 vs 46!  Included links to CAS or DPX vs OFF as well for more comparison. OFF was 52 FPS. That was at 4K with i3-6300 and GTX980 for context. I normally run 1440p 120Hz 10bpp, but the display can do 6bpp at higher resolutions and lower refresh rates as well. it'll even do 8K 26Hz 6bpp which doesn't serve too much purpose, but you can use it to upscale video streams.

CAS vs DPX

CAS vs OFF

DPX vs OFF


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## nguyen (Oct 16, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> Here's a update on a Reshade post process comparison. I have 6 configurations of CAS layers together and compared it against 7 configurations of DPX layers. So how do they stack up!? I don't know you tell me. Which would you prefer!? Now look careful as well at the top left corner FPS 42 vs 46!  Included links to CAS or DPX vs OFF as well for more comparison. OFF was 52 FPS. That was at 4K with i3-6300 and GTX980 for context. I normally run 1440p 120Hz 10bpp, but the display can do 6bpp at higher resolutions and lower refresh rates as well. it'll even do 8K 26Hz 6bpp which doesn't serve too much purpose, but you can use it to upscale video streams.
> 
> CAS vs DPX
> 
> ...



They all look the same to me, CAS seem to make shadows brighter vs OFF
DPX look the same vs OFF


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## InVasMani (Oct 16, 2021)

I can defiantly notice differences, but maybe I should have leaned less heavily towards the side of subtly perhaps.


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