# Carbon Monoxide from 3D printer killed couple



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jan 28, 2017)

A San Francisco couple and their two cats died from poisoning after a laser 3D printer filled their home with carbon monoxide.

The Massachusetts Institute of Technology graduates had died from poisoning due the couple's laser 3D printer, which emitted carbon monoxide in their residence, an officer said on Friday.


reported by
 CBS San Francisco Bay Area. 

Researchers at the Illinois Institute of Technology warned users against the potential dangers of 3D printers for home use, reported the Chicago Tribune.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 28, 2017)

They complain about their cars there in California yet a car didnt kill them it was a printer... time to put a ridiculously expensive "pollution pump" on it.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 28, 2017)

Typo in the thread title (dioxide -> monoxide).

Everyone should have a carbon monoxide detector in their house even if they don't have gas heating.  3D printers are apparently another source for the noxious fumes.


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Jan 28, 2017)

machines like 3D printers should be kept in a shed/garage or workshop where theres decent ventilation


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jan 28, 2017)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Typo in the thread title (dioxide -> monoxide).




thanks i have corrected it now.


----------



## alucasa (Jan 28, 2017)

Hmmm... which is more dangerous... a 3D printer or two badgers in sli (humping).


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 28, 2017)

alucasa said:


> Hmmm... which is more dangerous... a 3D printer or two badgers in sli (humping).



Depends on how bad you startle them.


----------



## newtekie1 (Jan 28, 2017)

I don't know, I'm calling iffy on this one.  Some random police office said it was carbon monoxide from their 3D printer.  Ok, how did he determine that?  Does he have a degree in chemical engineering and just decided "screw science, I wanna shoot people"?  This just reminds me of the article last month that said some guy was killed when his 3D printer exploded.  Of course, that wasn't even close to the case.  What really happened was he sprayed like a whole can of hairspray on the heated bed to try to get things to stick better. This is a legit method, but a whole can is way too much.  Of course, all the hairspray in his room ignited and exploded.  I can't see the amount of carbon monoxide put off by a 3D printer being enough to fill an entire house and kill everything inside.


----------



## AsRock (Jan 28, 2017)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Typo in the thread title (dioxide -> monoxide).
> 
> Everyone should have a carbon monoxide detector in their house even if they don't have gas heating.  3D printers are apparently another source for the noxious fumes.



Just what i was thinking, more so were they live. It's against the law here in PA to not have at least one in the house.



alucasa said:


> Hmmm... which is more dangerous... a 3D printer or two badgers in sli (humping).



It's less less offensive than seeing humans .


----------



## qubit (Jan 28, 2017)

Bloody awful.  I wonder if there was anything about CO in the manual? I can't imagine it being normal though.


----------



## ChristineAndRusty (Jan 29, 2017)

newtekie1 said:


> I don't know, I'm calling iffy on this one.  Some random police office said it was carbon monoxide from their 3D printer.  Ok, how did he determine that?  Does he have a degree in chemical engineering and just decided "screw science, I wanna shoot people"?  This just reminds me of the article last month that said some guy was killed when his 3D printer exploded.  Of course, that wasn't even close to the case.  What really happened was he sprayed like a whole can of hairspray on the heated bed to try to get things to stick better. This is a legit method, but a whole can is way too much.  Of course, all the hairspray in his room ignited and exploded.  I can't see the amount of carbon monoxide put off by a 3D printer being enough to fill an entire house and kill everything inside.



Easy there, that was a cop from SF, NOT LA, and there is a difference. Being a cop from SF means he may just have a degree in chemical engineering-so close to UC Berkeley and all. I mean he might really not have the actual degree it's self, but may moonlight at UC Berkeley's science's buildings, or something relatively close....kinda....well...OK, the LA cop on the other hand might not have wanted to just plain ole shoot people, and the wife, both dogs and I have talked over the supposed hair spray can theory, didn't give an address in the valley so that won't float. The cat ain't talking, so I guess you got 1 on the hairspray..........OK, now that I danced a little, check this out: " http://www.3ders.org/articles/20160...o-sustainable-concrete-building-material.html " and this is really giving me a head ache trying to figure out if it makes it, at all, can recycle it's own CO² into concrete, if fake news has hit here finally, or if I should buy groceries today or wait until Monday, or exactly what was this couple or their cats making in such a quantity that it would fill a house with enough CO² to kill themselves ??????(Really? That really happened? Sprayed hair spray on a 3D printer?? That's not in the manual is it?)


----------



## natr0n (Jan 29, 2017)

They should have 3D printed an air purifier.


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jan 29, 2017)

Carbon monoxide is heavier than air and odourless, Its perfectly feasible that they went to bed and left the printer on overnight, maybe even in the same room.

Im speculating.


----------



## theonedub (Jan 29, 2017)

newtekie1 said:


> I can't see the amount of carbon monoxide put off by a 3D printer being enough to fill an entire house and kill everything inside.



To be fair, it doesn't take much carbon monoxide to kill. On first look I was thinking gas leak, but the utility company already investigated and said it was clear, so there goes that idea. I'd be interested in what the printer manufacturer says about the possibility of it being the cause.



CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Carbon monoxide is heavier than air and odourless, Its perfectly feasible that they went to bed and left the printer on overnight, maybe even in the same room.
> 
> Im speculating.



Carbon monoxide is not heavier than air.


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jan 29, 2017)

Oooops


----------



## ChristineAndRusty (Jan 29, 2017)

I'm having a hard time getting anywhere on line on this thing (EDIT: Windows 10 browser"thing"), I did find one thread on it ( "https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13507734" ) but in reality it takes quite a bit to actually kill someone. Asleep it would be a prolonged exposure to any amount, awake you would feel sick enough you would probably go outside due to the symptoms of CO² poisoning. When people do themselves in with the trusty car/garage scenario the body tells you right off "why?", as do most other "to much & not enough" scenarios. It is a shame that it has to happen to someone before it get's enough attention to garner a warning. I spent time in California, the only thing that does not lead to cancer and death is death. Better safe than sorry is one thing. California safety warnings are another.


----------



## biorpg (Jan 29, 2017)

ChristineAndRusty said:


> I spent time in California, the only thing that does not lead to cancer and death is death. Better safe than sorry is one thing. California safety warnings are another.



It is true that it seems California has cancer warnings on more things than not, and that this makes them so common that their effectiveness is greatly reduced. However, California invests a lot of money into cancer-related research, and as a result they discover quite a bit that the world never knew, and answer long-standing questions in that area. They may have an over-abundance of cancer warnings, which will likely lead to an ironic shift in their devotion to it once the generations that they are bombarding with these warnings become the ones who make those decisions because it might seem unnecessary to continue their research - especially if they are successful in significantly reducing cancer-related deaths.

tl,dr: (see above)


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Jan 29, 2017)

The source of the gas emissions is from the print material or the printer itself? I know the printer isnt power by a gas weed-wacker motor..  So it has to the print material while heated?


----------



## theintrospective (Jan 29, 2017)

3D Printers don't produce Carbon Monoxide.  Laser cutters do when cutting wood or some plastics. 

One of the couple did apparently own a laser cutter. It is a 2D device, not 3D. 

The reporters for this (starting in particular with NY Daily News) failed to do any research or verify their information before publishing this article.

Two things to note:
1) SLS (laser powder sintering) can produce CO, but only in special circumstances, and are usually industrial machines, very large, and VERY expensive. Highly unlikely to be found in an apartment, even in Berkeley.
2) Regular 3d printers (FDM and SLA/resin) don't produce CO in dangerous quantities, though some filaments for FDM do produce noxious fumes that can cause health problems, but won't kill you in a single (even a prolonged) sitting.



CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> A San Francisco couple and their two cats died from poisoning after a laser 3D printer filled their home with carbon monoxide.
> 
> The Massachusetts Institute of Technology graduates had died from poisoning due the couple's laser 3D printer, which emitted carbon monoxide in their residence, an officer said on Friday.
> 
> ...


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 29, 2017)

biorpg said:


> It is true that it seems California has cancer warnings on more things than not, and that this makes them so common that their effectiveness is greatly reduced. However, California invests a lot of money into cancer-related research, and as a result they discover quite a bit that the world never knew, and answer long-standing questions in that area. They may have an over-abundance of cancer warnings, which will likely lead to an ironic shift in their devotion to it once the generations that they are bombarding with these warnings become the ones who make those decisions because it might seem unnecessary to continue their research - especially if they are successful in significantly reducing cancer-related deaths.
> 
> tl,dr: (see above)



Sue the FDA for allowing artificial sweeteners in food amongst other stuff


----------



## ChristineAndRusty (Jan 29, 2017)

biorpg said:


> It is true that it seems California has cancer warnings on more things than not, and that this makes them so common that their effectiveness is greatly reduced. However, California invests a lot of money into cancer-related research, and as a result they discover quite a bit that the world never knew, and answer long-standing questions in that area. They may have an over-abundance of cancer warnings, which will likely lead to an ironic shift in their devotion to it once the generations that they are bombarding with these warnings become the ones who make those decisions because it might seem unnecessary to continue their research - especially if they are successful in significantly reducing cancer-related deaths.
> 
> tl,dr: (see above)



The only thing is that now there are a lot of these warnings like you said, they were actually good for somethings, the studies to find out this stuff was and still is a money and job generating business all of it's own-except what the colleges and universities garner. It did kill my sisters Vega. At least that's what she claimed  . So much good came from a smaller percentage of  things most people don't even realize it when they say it. But some of the science that came with it has over the years evolved old school beliefs out the door and safety has just become a standard no one really notices. No blow dryers in the bath tub. Really, some folks HAD to be told, same with no laptop in the bath tub-not a death sentence in modern homes, but you'd think twice before ever taking one in the bath tub. Even so, it was almost vendetta like for a few years. I know a Woman Marine that needed a warning tag on her,yet the Stanford Group didn't and she killed the Samsonite suitcase ape. Some of you might have to look that one up, maybe you tube.
CO² is one of the clingier things you can accumulate in the body. .004 PPM I believe is the toxic amount to stay away from. In the emergency department we would see people who had been poisoned accidentally (A couple not) every few years, like a rash. "I Got sick feeling, went out side for a breath of fresh air, felt better, went inside fora while, got sick feeling" etc. They were sick, the fresh air cleared "some", but not enough until they would go down and someone would find them, hopefully.
 Funny thing about CO²,  standard air purifier-hepa/charcoal- would clean the air good enough for most bad things from "laser" anything. 



theintrospective said:


> Two things to note:
> 1) SLS (laser powder sintering) can produce CO, but only in special circumstances, and are usually industrial machines, very large, and VERY expensive. Highly unlikely to be found in an apartment, even in Berkeley.
> 2) Regular 3d printers (FDM and SLA/resin) don't produce CO in dangerous quantities, though some filaments for FDM do produce noxious fumes that can cause health problems, but won't kill you in a single (even a prolonged) sitting.



I know a dude from Kinko's, said they have some of them built into certain machines they have. And know, I can't quote him as he is a 2 year ITT grad. Whatever that means? 

So, ain't from NY, or D.C. so I like that late breaking news, last to know, and probably less informed, the Oregonian-yesterdays news in the morning, wet and old and is really is not a good source of info-NY does no fact check, AP just sends the same story out to everyone, everywhere at the same time. Right, or wrong, news is news as far as they are concerned, they will clean up their mess after they get back from the bank!

"Sue the FDA for allowing artificial sweeteners in food amongst other stuff"

 And then came artificial sweetener......don't get me started there(-Really!), not just the FDA, the DEA, it should be a Schedule 1 narcotic, like LSD, Mushrooms, !!!!! Ever see the way people steal it and hide it like their hiding their pot? Yeah, the FDA DEA ATF all the regulatory folks that want NOTHING bad for us out here, what a joke. Pound for pound it will do things to ya that just eating a pound sugar wont. (Developed to keep aliens alive at Area 51, ain't no joke  Shhhhh.....)

The combined knowledge of those on this site could figure out most everything if needed, but the facts need to be presented so speculation could be lost in the beginning. Lot of knowledge in just 20 posts. Just sayin......................


----------



## HossHuge (Jan 29, 2017)

natr0n said:


> They should have 3D printed an air purifier.



Zing!!


----------

