# I have a feeling that I don't like Steam.



## RoutedScripter (Jul 4, 2010)

Negatives:
Forced Auto-Updating
Useless Valve Anti Cheat
Steam needs to be running to play the game
Steam needs to connect to it's servers to play the game
Steam-specific patches and support versions required
The games installs into the freaking Program filesshadedshu)
Steam integration into the game which you can't disable.
More game stability issues with Steam version (freezes,crashes)

Positives:
-Friend chat and communities (I don't need msn-like chat and i have other better programs for that, plus you have sites for communities, Valve doesn't need to monitor the communities)
-Cheaper games (weekly discounts)

And what's more, there are a lot of crap games up there without dedicated servers, mod tools ... etc


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## WhiteLotus (Jul 4, 2010)

positives

Steam can be played offline
usually cheaper
awesome sales
simple pay, download and play
auto-updating

negatives

requires steam


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## IINexusII (Jul 4, 2010)

i see you havent done any research

*Forced Auto-Updating*
simply turn off auto updating on any games you wish (right click game, properties then auto updating tab)

*Steam integration into the game which you can't disable.*
again, it can be disabled. settings, In game tab, disable in game overlay.


*Steam needs to connect to it's servers to play the game*
you can use offline mode if you have no net, and play any game in your steam library. cant play online on servers of course

*The games installs into the freaking Program files()*
when you install steam, you can choose the location, just like any other software.


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## douglatins (Jul 4, 2010)

IINexusII said:


> i see you havent done any research
> 
> *Forced Auto-Updating*
> simply turn off auto updating on any games you wish (right click game, properties then auto updating tab)
> ...



Burn! He resolved most of your issues lol


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## RoutedScripter (Jul 4, 2010)

Auto updating is way from positive because you can't play the game AT ALL if it doesn't update , this means you are bound from starting the game at all.

simple pay download and play is also a negative from a collectors view , because you don't own a physical copy and it can get lost , you can burn it , but that won't work with the profile then you'll have to crack it afaik.

What's more , i don't use credit cards or any kind of international online payment to be even relying on steam alone.


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## IINexusII (Jul 4, 2010)

you could just make a backup of the steam game files


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## RoutedScripter (Jul 4, 2010)

Wow this is not noted anywhere , this wasn't present time ago, and I never saw the browse button when installing a game , but that was actually a retail game using steam.


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## IINexusII (Jul 4, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> Wow this is not noted anywhere , this wasn't present time ago, and I never saw the browse button when installing a game , but that was actually a retail game using steam.



make a backup of the steamapps folder, then reinstall steam to the location you wish, then simply move the steamapps folder to the new location and all your games are installed


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## Cheeseball (Jul 4, 2010)

Well, it's been there since Half-Life 2 ever came out (which I believe is the exact same time that Steam came out).

Anyways, most of the issues you have with Steam are resolved one way or the other. I used to hate Steam before, but now that they cleaned up their act, it's the only place I buy games now (except for Blizzard games).

The only point I agree with you on is:


> Steam needs to be running to play the game



But it's an exception that I am willing to make considering that the new version of Steam only takes up like 2*MB* of RAM when minimized in the System Tray/Notification Area.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 4, 2010)

Negatives:
-Steam is DRM.  Nuff' said.


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## Necrofire (Jul 4, 2010)

Actually, you really only have to install steam once 
Copy the SteamApps folder and Steam.exe where you want, and then open steam. It'll do all the dirty work and you're back in business.

Did that last windows install, didn't lose a thing.

I do find it unnecessary that steam has to run to play a game, but I've gotten used to it.

I did finally stop being angry with steam ever since the complete redo. I hated it when it had to use internet explorer for online content ( webkit).

What steam is lacking though, is linux support. I don't see why there has been a delay with the linux release. I'm not content with a WINE install, it just isn't the same. If/when native linux support comes, I will possibly be able to ditch windows forever.


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## shevanel (Jul 4, 2010)

Not to mention you'll never lose your library as long as you remember your credentials to login.

Backup your files to DVD size option and stick it somewhere.. that way when you move to a new pc or w/e all you have to do is load from the image and its ready to rock.

I think steam is awesome.. yeah I agree the valve anti-cheat is useless.. but eventually those people do get banned it just takes a while so it really limits the amount of AC protection in real time.


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## Lionheart (Jul 4, 2010)

I used to hate steam at first but thats because I had a pathetic 56k dialup speed net connection, but now 5yrs later I have a 30Mbps cable connection and I luv steam


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jul 4, 2010)

I love Steam, I have a hard time keeping all my CD's together, most get damaged. This allows me to buy a game at any time of the night (which I have been doing), allows me access to them all the time, shows me friends who own them, sometimes offers nice achievements for the games, and the ingame chat feature is exactly what I want, I want to be able to talk to friends while in game.

I'm thinking you really aren't going to find many who agree here, it is a great service, and their deals are awesome, only downfall is you can't resell games.


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## L|NK|N (Jul 4, 2010)

1Kurgan1 said:


> ......I'm thinking you really aren't going to find many who agree here, it is a great service, and their deals are awesome, only downfall is you can't *resell *games.



If only they could come up with a way to "trade-in" titles/keys for store credit or whatever then I would give Steam a 10/10. Only digital distribution service I like atm.


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## Darknova (Jul 4, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> And what's more, there are a lot of crap games up there without dedicated servers, mod tools ... etc



Not steam's fault, talk to the game dev/dedi server owners



IINexusII said:


> *Steam integration into the game which you can't disable.*
> again, it can be disabled. settings, In game tab, disable in game overlay.



You can actually disable it game-by-game now, right-click, properties, untick Enable Steam Community In-Game


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jul 4, 2010)

I'm kind of confused why you would want to disable steam integration? It's really the best feature, unless you are only buying your games on steam because you hate people more than anything else and steam allows you to buy the games you want without making contact with other people, and since you hate them you also don't want to talk to them.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 4, 2010)

LiNKiN said:


> If only they could come up with a way to "trade-in" titles/keys for store credit or whatever then I would give Steam a 10/10. Only digital distribution service I like atm.


 I agree. I wish I could trade.


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## IINexusII (Jul 4, 2010)

thers a list of games that are tradable, i used it to convert my Unreal tournament 3 from retail

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7480-WUSF-3601

yeah, ive gotten used to it too, especially because my mates also use it, and its turning out to be an alternative to windows live sometimes, i can jus chat to them while im playing any game instead of minimizing to check messages. and invite them to any serves im currently in


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## RejZoR (Jul 4, 2010)

If i have option to pick between retarded Always on protection like that junk from Ubisoft and Steam, i'd pick Steam anytime you want it. Same goes for online activations with limited number of re-activations. Who the hell made up this shit should be shot on sight. And it's becoming a standard in todays games. When all of them will have this, i'll stop buying games and focus on indie games only. The ones that are not plagued by this crap. And they come with smaller price and more fun (usually).


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## IINexusII (Jul 4, 2010)

RejZoR said:


> If i have option to pick between retarded Always on protection like that junk from Ubisoft and Steam, i'd pick Steam anytime you want it. Same goes for online activations with limited number of re-activations. Who the hell made up this shit should be shot on sight. And it's becoming a standard in todays games. When all of them will have this, i'll stop buying games and focus on indie games only. The ones that are not plagued by this crap. And they come with smaller price and more fun (usually).



+1


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## SystemViper (Jul 4, 2010)

shevanel said:


> Not to mention you'll never lose your library as long as you remember your credentials to login.
> 
> Backup your files to DVD size option and stick it somewhere.. that way when you move to a new pc or w/e all you have to do is load from the image and its ready to rock.
> 
> I think steam is awesome.. yeah I agree the valve anti-cheat is useless.. but eventually those people do get banned it just takes a while so it really limits the amount of AC protection in real time.



Totally agree, with my son and myself both playing games and hardware coming and going all the time,  we don't have to worry aobut friggin scratched CD, cd keys or all that junk...

like was said many times, we just bakc up our directory and moving it to a new system is very easy..  Love Steam, always have, and prob always will.....


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## kid41212003 (Jul 4, 2010)

It's alot easy to backup and recover your games now, and there are option to split into many files to fit a dvd too. It's just a few clicks.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Jul 4, 2010)

This is one fad I don't get in general. Steam is bloat and drm, pure and simple. A steam version of a game takes anywhere from 2-10 times as long to start, it often isn't compatible with mods because the files are modified, and all those sony rootkits from the disc versions you think you're avoiding by using steam? Guess what, they're installed with those games anyways... just for shits and giggles. I know, it doesn't make any sense.

I don't get the complaint about losing discs, aside from never losing anything, I back up every game and movie onto my hdd in a folder along with the key. I haven't had to use a game disc for anything, I just mount it with daemon.

Digital downloads certainly have potential to take over, but steam is just such a half-assed attempt that brings so much bullshit to the table. A new service is needed before this can really replace physical media.


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## L|NK|N (Jul 4, 2010)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> This is one fad I don't get in general. Steam is bloat and drm, pure and simple. A steam version of a game takes anywhere from 2-10 times as long to start, it often isn't compatible with mods because the files are modified, and all those sony rootkits from the disc versions you think you're avoiding by using steam? Guess what, they're installed with those games anyways... just for shits and giggles. I know, it doesn't make any sense.
> 
> I don't get the complaint about losing discs, aside from never losing anything, I back up every game and movie onto my hdd in a folder along with the key. I haven't had to use a game disc for anything, I just mount it with daemon.
> 
> Digital downloads certainly have potential to take over, but steam is just such a half-assed attempt that brings so much bullshit to the table. A new service is needed before this can really replace physical media.



How many games do you have on your steam account?


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## 3volvedcombat (Jul 4, 2010)

This guy says he is a collectable.


So why the hell is he even using steam

If he needs his pretty cd's

I think this is one KIDS mistake on a post on steam.

Because whoever they are, they didn't really use the program long enough, to even find disable options or use it offline.......

shadedshu:shadedshu
So this thread is a simple fail.


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## zaqwsx (Jul 4, 2010)

^ True. Know what would be real awsome was if we made a Sticky thread for How to use steam becuase I love steam and after reading this I learned about stuff I never knew steam did. Thanks guys.


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## DonInKansas (Jul 4, 2010)

I used to hate Steam.  Now that I have two sticky fingered little kids that love to play with (read: scratch up and destroy) CDs/DVDs and not enough storage space for all those boxes,  I love Steam.


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## erocker (Jul 4, 2010)

-DRM is here and here to stay. Don't like it, be a pirate or buy a console.

-Doesn't take any longer for games to load for me. If anything it's faster due to not waiting for a disc.

-Daemon tools is garbage and interferes with other applications

-Mods work just fine with Steam. I can't think of any mod-able game that won't work in Steam.

-There is some crap and bloat with Steam that isn't needed, that I'll agree with.

-Retail games = disc, plastic, cardboard and other wasteful crap that isn't needed.


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## kid41212003 (Jul 4, 2010)

I have no problems using Steam + Daemon tools.

Daemon tool isn't interfering with other apps, but other apps interferes with it instead. Because it's used heavily by pirates.


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## RoutedScripter (Jul 4, 2010)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> This is one fad I don't get in general. Steam is bloat and drm, pure and simple. A steam version of a game takes anywhere from 2-10 times as long to start, it often isn't compatible with mods because the files are modified, and all those sony rootkits from the disc versions you think you're avoiding by using steam? Guess what, they're installed with those games anyways... just for shits and giggles. I know, it doesn't make any sense.
> 
> I don't get the complaint about losing discs, aside from never losing anything, I back up every game and movie onto my hdd in a folder along with the key. I haven't had to use a game disc for anything, I just mount it with daemon.
> 
> Digital downloads certainly have potential to take over, but steam is just such a half-assed attempt that brings so much bullshit to the table. A new service is needed before this can really replace physical media.



Yes ineed , there should be a service without these special digital versions that aren't compatible with anything , ... Steam is the XBLA on PC , it doesn't support  , and gabe newells mouthtalks don't mean anything , valve is a corporation not a private developer.

However i didn't knew on much of the things possible today with steam , so I take those advices into account , but on the other hand i had friends who complained they bought original games on steam found them to be freezing their pc , when they loaded the retail , the problem went away.

Particularly COD2 , Steam version has varying issues downloading from http redirects and playing on modded pure dedicated linux servers, not only that, it freezed in 10 minutes,  my clan has a server and i was one of the admins later for 2yrs , so i am familiar and quite experienced with these things.(one of the best only-rifle server and private mod in our country 



The steam application it self is boggling too , I don't know what was about but it wanted to update some month ago and simply didn't want to , gave an error , and then update started again , so it was in loop , so i basically erased everything about steam from the registry and system. problem solved. 
Infact i was going to reinstall it , guest what , same thing... I was giving steam a chance, and found it not bad , but i don't want to waste anymore time configuring a software to run software.

I want to preserve the tradition , i don't want the gaming to be as a service, something gabe can shovel up his back side , steam will be like Xbla , crap games and money milking.

Sorry for ranty attitude but i had all kinds of opinions several times in the past with people not agreeing , they turned out most close in the end , much like charlie who's bashed all the time but atleast he's 90% correct , don't screw around , some sites reporting some tech articles , is half year old news on semiaccurate


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## Animalpak (Jul 4, 2010)

For me somethings are bad must give the possibility to pay in other ways the games, my friends are not always willing to lend me their credit card.

And then when you download a game you should be able to have it in the language you would not necessarily English.

Anyway if I knew someone's password could have all their games change the password and he would lose all their games


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## newtekie1 (Jul 4, 2010)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> This is one fad I don't get in general. Steam is bloat and drm, pure and simple. A steam version of a game takes anywhere from 2-10 times as long to start, it often isn't compatible with mods because the files are modified, and all those sony rootkits from the disc versions you think you're avoiding by using steam? Guess what, they're installed with those games anyways... just for shits and giggles. I know, it doesn't make any sense.
> 
> I don't get the complaint about losing discs, aside from never losing anything, I back up every game and movie onto my hdd in a folder along with the key. I haven't had to use a game disc for anything, I just mount it with daemon.
> 
> Digital downloads certainly have potential to take over, but steam is just such a half-assed attempt that brings so much bullshit to the table. A new service is needed before this can really replace physical media.



I know, I just can't live without that extra 15MB of RAM that Steam takes up running, it is so bloated I can't stand it!


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## Stak (Jul 4, 2010)

A steam question:
I am on vacation but  bored sometimes  im trying to get me a laptop so i can game a little here (offline though) so if i dl Steam. And install it on the laptop. Am i able to dl my games on that Laptop without purchase???

And ps: i Love steam


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## SystemViper (Jul 4, 2010)

Stak said:


> A steam question:
> I am on vacation but  bored sometimes  im trying to get me a laptop so i can game a little here (offline though) so if i dl Steam. And install it on the laptop. Am i able to dl my games on that Laptop without purchase???
> 
> And ps: i Love steam



if i understand correctly, you are wondering if you can put your already purchased games on several systems?  if that is what you are asking, the answer is yes..

I have steam and my game set on about 5 different systems


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## DrPepper (Jul 4, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> Auto updating is way from positive because you can't play the game AT ALL if it doesn't update , this means you are bound from starting the game at all.
> 
> simple pay download and play is also a negative from a collectors view , because you don't own a physical copy and it can get lost , you can burn it , but that won't work with the profile then you'll have to crack it afaik.
> 
> What's more , i don't use credit cards or any kind of international online payment to be even relying on steam alone.



Problems with auto-updating are rare, I don't even remember having that problem.

If I was a collector I wouldn't use steam at all. If you remember your credentials losing it isn't a problem.

That's really tough beans if you don't use online payment.


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## TechnicalFreak (Jul 4, 2010)

I have never had an issue with steam..ever.

I think that the way they sell, and how an enduser can purchase a game is the new idéa.
The thing is with CD/DVD's, boxes, manuals etc is money.

Everything costs money, you want that to be available, you need to hire people (machines can't do everything), and people cost money aswell. At the end you have a very expensive game, that just might not be worth the cash they are asking for.

Solution? Digital media, "stream" the games to your computer. Now we have an other problem - large games. Say like GTAIV , it's over 10Gb, wonder how long time on just my connection that would take to download..

But some games are ok.

As for VAC, I never set a foot in a server where there is no admin. VAC or no VAC, sometimes when one starts to argue you hear the most common thing "_I know him, he doesn't cheat_".
If I would get like 1 dollar everytime I heard that - I would be stinking rich!


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## Techtu (Jul 4, 2010)

I'm a new user to steam, only have 4 games which was free, which in turn lead me to download and install steam for them  I was so impressed with it from the start! yes it has it's downsides... like steam has to run to be able to play a game, but come on... that is a really petty issue! 

I probably shouldn't mention this here, but I was one for downloading games illegally... BUT steam has totally changed all that for me, it's so much more simple and easier, and all the games I'm sure to buy, will never get lost or whatever. and there's a few tips what IINexusII pointed out which clearly argue the words of the opening post,, and simple win's the argument hands down.

Thank you to the free games what enticed me to even consider steam!


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## RoutedScripter (Jul 4, 2010)

If valve servers data brakes down or are severely hacked , you lost everything.
If Valve bankrupts , you lost everything.


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## shevanel (Jul 4, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> If valve servers data brakes down or are severely hacked , you lost everything.
> If Valve bankrupts , you lost everything.



No, you just lose the ability to play online. Until someone else buys them out that is... like M$ or the like.


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## DrPepper (Jul 4, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> If valve servers data brakes down or are severely hacked , you lost everything.
> If Valve bankrupts , you lost everything.



Has it happened ? Will it happen ? Unlikely. I have reciepts of all my games purchased so if the servers are hacked I have proof I have the games. They most likely have several backups etc so not really a worry.


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## Cold Storm (Jul 4, 2010)

Sorry, but I really don't believe that Valve will ever be like Blockbusters.. It's to "world wide" to just "fail".


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## RoutedScripter (Jul 4, 2010)

shevanel said:


> Until someone else buys them out that is... like M$ or the like.



Ahaha come on , just come on , that really far fetched speculation.

Whoever would buy them would turn into even to even more xbla-like.


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## TechnicalFreak (Jul 4, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> If valve servers data brakes down or are severely hacked , you lost everything.
> If Valve bankrupts , you lost everything.



Actually, I bought Counter-Strike:Source on DVD and got HL2 with it (steam aswell).
But that would not bother me. It's just a game, not the end of the world..


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## RoutedScripter (Jul 4, 2010)

Bleh , what if you lost DNF (in some alternate reality) , I think a lot of them would cry.


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## shevanel (Jul 4, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> Ahaha come on , just come on , that really far fetched speculation.



Not as far fetched as you speculating that steam would go bankrupt... I don't think you understand the amount of profit these people make with these games... plus the lack of overhead they have is simply envious.


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## timta2 (Jul 4, 2010)

> If valve servers data brakes down or are severely hacked , you lost everything.
> If Valve bankrupts , you lost everything.



Steam has already said that if for some reason they have to go out of business that they will enable a mechanism to free the games from Steam. 

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(content_delivery)

System failure

In addition to Gabe Newell's comments, Steam's Support Staff have confirmed that "in the unlikely event of the discontinuation of the Steam network, measures are in place to ensure that all users will have access to their Steam games."[92][93]


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## Phxprovost (Jul 4, 2010)

why is this thread even open? this is nothing more then a flame thread with 85% of the stuff in op being false...which was proven in the first 2 replys


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## shevanel (Jul 4, 2010)

I think someone might be pissed that they were caught hacking? Now the account isn't as accessible as before... but then once again I am just speculating.


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## Cold Storm (Jul 4, 2010)

Phxprovost said:


> why is this thread even open? this is nothing more then a flame thread with 85% of the stuff in op being false...which was proven in the first 2 replys



Because most people don't know how to search or even look threw a "system" before using it the first time.. They just believe that everything should be "*highlighed*" so they don't have to do _work_.


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## RoutedScripter (Jul 4, 2010)

shevanel said:


> Not as far fetched as you speculating that steam would go bankrupt... I don't think you understand the amount of profit these people make with these games... plus the lack of overhead they have is simply envious.



Not because of the money they're getting but i supplied an IF , and not exactly bankrupt , but what if the house burns down , what if an airplane capable of ignoring the laws of physics crashes , tornado , tsunami , lightning storm , HAARP(lol) , ... all data gone.

I agree on the overhead , only 220 people there , but i see the company is private , that's REALLY confusing since they renamed to Valve Corporation from Valve Software, this contradicst everything , a corporation is a public company owned by shareholders and the company being on the stock(which is the worst form of a company for a gamer)


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## Phxprovost (Jul 4, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> Not because of the money they're getting but i supplied an IF , and not exactly bankrupt , but what if the house burns down , what if an airplane capable of ignoring the laws of physics crashes , tornado , tsunami , lightning storm , HAARP(lol) , ... all data gone.



cause im sure valves bread and butters isnt backed up somewhere


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## DonInKansas (Jul 4, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> If valve servers data brakes down or are severely hacked , you lost everything.
> If Valve bankrupts , you lost everything.



If my house burns down, I lose all of those discs with no way to reclaim them.  Your point is????


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## RoutedScripter (Jul 4, 2010)

Of course it's normal that they have backups but you never know how companies care for that ... if they have the backup in the same room or basement




DonInKansas said:


> If my house burns down, I lose all of those discs with no way to reclaim them.  Your point is????



Chances of that are 10 times smaller

If it's your house , you're the only one that lost it


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## francis511 (Jul 4, 2010)

Anyone else had trouble with steam and windows 7 x64 ? I try to start L4D 2 and steam doesn`t run right (the service doesn`t start properly). I can work round it by stopping and starting steam manually , but it`s still a PITA.


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## DonInKansas (Jul 4, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> Chances of that are 10 times smaller
> 
> If it's your house , you're the only one that lost it



You have facts to back up your statement or are you just pulling numbers out of your butt?

It's the same thing.  There's risk either way.  Discs can be scratched, burned, cracked, lost, pooped on, rendering them unusable.  People have their own preferences.


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## Cold Storm (Jul 4, 2010)

Lol.. You think the US government care good about their servers? If you only knew what goes on with them.

Their is countless servers that have piggy backs on what each other has.. They most likely even have small "image" files that allow them to know what everyone has. Backups every so often so they can update their own backups.. 

You, as a customer, will all ways have "proof" that you have bought the items from Steam threw your "credit cards" that have been used to buy it.. If, you don't have the "proof" and something happens.. It can even be blame of you to not have the "documents" to prove that you have the games for such "tragic accidents"


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## _Zod_ (Jul 4, 2010)

If I wanted vendor lock-in I would play console games. Steam is nothing more than an elaborate DRM platform.


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## shevanel (Jul 4, 2010)

hax i say, hax!


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Jul 4, 2010)

erocker said:


> -DRM is here and here to stay. Don't like it, be a pirate or buy a console.
> 
> -Doesn't take any longer for games to load for me. If anything it's faster due to not waiting for a disc.
> 
> ...



-Well I'd agree you should at least crack the launch process of the games you've bought so you can uninstall the rootkit, but I doubt the cracks would work on a steam launched game with the file changes so you'd be out of luck with steam in that case.

-Doesn't take longer to load for you? What games are you playing, that's a very consistent complaint for me.

-Like what? I've never heard of someone complaining about it "interfering" with a program, and I see it on so many types of systems. And don't even mention itunes.

-Maybe you need to mod more games? Again, this is a very common complaint.

-Oh noes, te trees! and chinese babies


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## phanbuey (Jul 4, 2010)

well bitch and moan all you want, i think steam is better than 10000 independent pieces of DRM that would otherwise come on a bazillion separate dvd's for all my games.

and i dont have to go anywhere to get the latest and greatest. so thats that.  Biggest collection on games, just click and BOOM its downloading.

I think the poll speaks for itself.


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## douglatins (Jul 4, 2010)

OMG Buttraped. hehe steam winzors


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Jul 4, 2010)

phanbuey said:


> well bitch and moan all you want, i think steam is better than 10000 independent pieces of DRM that would otherwise come on a bazillion separate dvd's for all my games.
> 
> and i dont have to go anywhere to get the latest and greatest. so thats that.  Biggest collection on games, just click and BOOM its downloading.
> 
> I think the poll speaks for itself.



I wasn't kidding when I said you get the same "10000 independent pieces of DRM" you get with the discs, it just only uses the steam drm actively, but it installs both. You get no breaks from using steam in that regard.


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## zithe (Jul 4, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> If valve servers data brakes down or are severely hacked , you lost everything.
> If Valve bankrupts , you lost everything.



Please. You said yourself earlier that Valve is a corporation and not a private developer. If that's so, where do you think the games come from? Probably developers who own rights to the games and would most likely continue support where valve left off.

Steam doesn't ban you unless you're a douche, you don't have to carry around a hard drive or discs to play your games from another computer, you don't have any sort of problems with receiving a pirated activation code, etc. Sure your account can be stolen, but so can CDs, and the people you bought the CD from aren't going to get on their case to help you get your disc back.



RuskiSnajper said:


> If it's your house , you're the only one that lost it



Other than credit card agencies, gov't, any repair people you would've hired...


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## RoutedScripter (Jul 4, 2010)

Do you get anything back when banks go bankrupt ?


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## zithe (Jul 4, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> Do you get anything back when banks go bankrupt ?



Up to 200,000 from the government. 400,000 if you're married and using a joint account or the same bank.


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## shevanel (Jul 4, 2010)

shit, i cant get anything back from my bank while it's not..


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## RejZoR (Jul 4, 2010)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> I wasn't kidding when I said you get the same "10000 independent pieces of DRM" you get with the discs, it just only uses the steam drm actively, but it installs both. You get no breaks from using steam in that regard.



I'd like to see some change in this regard. If you opt for Steam, you should be able to avoid all the always online, limited activations nonsense. The games are tied to your Steam account anyway, so selling them is very limited to begin with. The platform requires login, so why have any other authentication? I was about to buy FUEL and Damnation games when i noticed they have this stupid activation shit. And so i ignored them, even though they were tempting 5€ each. Every protection WILL be cracked no matter how good it's suppose to be. So why complicate things? Steam already prevents every local dickhead copying the game and that's about it. Nothing will ever stop groups that crack games. It just won't happen.
But for some dumb reason, game developers just keep banging their heads into brick walls with these protections. I mean why the hell are they insisting on something that's not working!?


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## IINexusII (Jul 4, 2010)

just close this thread now, talk to the official steam forums with your comments they have better answers then us


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## Stak (Jul 4, 2010)

SystemViper said:


> if i understand correctly, you are wondering if you can put your already purchased games on several systems?  if that is what you are asking, the answer is yes..
> 
> I have steam and my game set on about 5 different systems



Thank you!! NOW I Like STEAM EVEN MoRrEe!!!


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## Mr McC (Jul 4, 2010)

I detest all forms of DRM. None of them serve their stated purpose, but rather were specifically designed to control the second-hand market. In this they have succeded. Steam is a method of DRM; however, given that the choice has basically become either accept some form of DRM or simply stop gaming legitimately, Steam, based on my own experience, is the best of a bad bunch. I mean, registering via Steam seems a hell of a lot better than Securom or the Ubisoft "always connected" crap, then again, Steam often includes Securom or other third-parrty DRM without telling anybody (it's on the Dr Ned's Zombie Island DLC for Borderlands and yet removed from the original game ). How hard would it be for Valve to enforce a policy requiring all companies to remove their third-party DRM before selling via Steam? At the very least, they could inform us where this isn't the case, you know, just to let us know exactly what we are installing as it might interest us.

End of rant.

Steam, for all its faults, is probably as good as it's ever going to get, from here on in.


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## RejZoR (Jul 4, 2010)

They do have warnings on Steam Store if the game contains extra activations or other similar junk.
So you know what you shouldn't buy. Maybe that will make them thinking...

Yeah, i really hope Valve will be able to enforce DRM free requirement. Steam is DRM by itself, so why duplicate everything and make things worse? Steam as far as my knowledge goes doesn't breake down on new systems because it's not using any low level drivers. Unlike SecuROM, TAGES or similar that install bunch of crap to protect itself with components that protect portected components of the protection driver. And all this usualyl goes wrong when you upgrade OS. And after that, developers either don't exist anymore or they just plain don't care if the game works or not. But you payed for it and then you have just few gigabytes of useless data.


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## Mr McC (Jul 4, 2010)

RejZoR said:


> They do have warnings on Steam Store if the game contains extra activations or other similar junk.
> So you know what you shouldn't buy. Maybe that will make them thinking...



I don't think this is always the case and in any event the DRM information, when given, isn't always in the most conspicuous places.

Here's an example:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/8990/

Do you see any mention of Securom? _Edit: picked a bad example it's there, over on the right, but it certainly isn't always there. In any event, if you buy the DLC in a pack, they throw in Securom for free, unless you go through and check each individual title: that's unacceptable, they should just oblige all companies selling via Steam to remove all third-party DRM._

My point is, Steam is open to criticism and probably legal action for failing to properly inform its customers. It isn't my job to investigate in order to discover what they're installing. 

That said, I still use Steam and will continue to do so.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 4, 2010)

I have never read so much misinformation on TPU in my whole life. This whole thread is a disgrace.


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## Phxprovost (Jul 4, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I have never read so much misinformation on TPU in my whole life. This whole thread is a disgrace.



 but the mods dont seem to care


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## RejZoR (Jul 4, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I have never read so much misinformation on TPU in my whole life. This whole thread is a disgrace.



O rly? Then correct us with proper information.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 4, 2010)

RejZoR said:


> O rly? Then correct us with proper information.



The first two replies summed everything up. All the other bitching is just fighting fact OR trollin' for attention. This thing should be locked IMO.


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## erocker (Jul 4, 2010)

I don't see a problem with this discussion. Most of the thread actually seems civil and sticks to the topic. The only problems I see are people posting in the thread that it needs to be closed. That kind of discussion isn't needed and the reason there is a "report post" button. As long as the thread keeps civil and on topic there isn't a problem. If the thread goes bad, the members who made it bad will be dealt with.

Keep on topic please.

Thank you.


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## Steevo (Jul 4, 2010)

Content anywhere, patches, you can run mods, big sales, one place to go for games.


If your don't have the resources to run steam 48MB for me right now,  with GTA Lost & Damned running in the background you are newfag and need to learn to build a PC. 


If you have issues with steam, just as they have said in interviews, you probably have infections, cracked games, or have damaged a actual game instead of the "steammods" games folder you use for........modded games!!!!

Each and every time I have had a issue with steam a quick restart of the PC or a simple fix corrected the problem. Once I had a unstable overclock and it was causing some file corruption. Was that Steams fault I was running a RAID array on a host based controller? Nope.


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## ste2425 (Jul 5, 2010)

i think steam is a great idea and a very useful and well built programme. Speak of crashes etc ive never had a steam game crash on me. The ability to buy nearly all games i want from the steam site, at very good prices if you get them on the many deals they have, install them all in one place and being able to back the whole thing up and put it on any computer i wish is great. No need to worry about limited installs. Just install steam loggin and download. Well thats my opinion


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## trt740 (Jul 5, 2010)

I love steam


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jul 5, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> If valve servers data brakes down or are severely hacked , you lost everything.
> If Valve bankrupts , you lost everything.



Your really going out on a limb here, most of your reasons seem to be like "well if the world ended", well if the world ends the world ends, worry about that when it happens. If you buy a car and you drive it for we'll say 5,000 miles then it blows the motor, what do you do? You deal with it, it's part of life and the odds of that happening are much higher than having Steam just flat out close up shop. If valve bankrupts you still have all of your CD keys (remember you can see them fr each game).



RuskiSnajper said:


> Ahaha come on , just come on , that really far fetched speculation.
> 
> Whoever would buy them would turn into even to even more xbla-like.



Your saying that a house burning down is a far fetched speculation compared to yours of Steam going bankrupt....



_Zod_ said:


> If I wanted vendor lock-in I would play console games. Steam is nothing more than an elaborate DRM platform.



Lock in? DRM? I havent ever had any issues with DRM, and what do you mean by lock in, I buy my games and play them just like I do with any games on CD, only restriction is I can't sell them.


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## Mussels (Jul 5, 2010)

Cheeseball said:


> But it's an exception that I am willing to make considering that the new version of Steam only takes up like 2*MB* of RAM when minimized in the System Tray/Notification Area.



i'm willing to bet that 2MB is less than Ubisofts always on DRM uses (and steam is more reliable). Hell, i'd bet its more resource friendly than most DRMs out there.


and yes, steam has had backup capabilities since it first came out. Its always required you to update your game,s but hell, so do most modern games. you cant play online without the latest patch, and why would you want to anyway? if you're on such restricted internet that you cant patch games, what the hell are you doing buying games that require online play/patches?


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## DaveK (Jul 5, 2010)

Everywhere you go you're going to see forced updates. Xbox Live and PlayStation Network require updates before allowing you to play online. It's not a big deal unless the update messes up your crack or something, otherwise, what reason would a person have for not updating?


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 5, 2010)

It takes time and often it updates at an inconvinent time (like when you want to play).  Requiring updates for online play makes sense but they do it for all games, online or not.  It becomes an annoyance when you gotta wait 15 minutes to update when you were expecting to play the game for 15+ minutes.


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## kid41212003 (Jul 5, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> It takes time and often it updates at an inconvinent time (like when you want to play).



You Steam hater! Period!


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 5, 2010)

Mussels said:


> i'm willing to bet that 2MB is less than Ubisofts always on DRM uses (and steam is more reliable). Hell, i'd bet its more resource friendly than most DRMs out there.


Tropico 3 just has a serial key.  You can play it without the disk in the drive and nothing is running in the background (the game, and only the game).

I never checked how much resources the Assassin's Creed II Launcher takes up.  I suspect not much but that's beside the point.  The system resources really aren't a problem in an age where most computers have at least 2 GiB RAM.  The problem is that it requires a virtually uninterruptable internet connection which most of the world doesn't have.




kid41212003 said:


> You Steam hater! Period!


I know.


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## Mussels (Jul 5, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Tropico 3 just has a serial key.  You can play it without the disk in the drive and nothing is running in the background (the game, and only the game).
> 
> I never checked how much resources the Assassin's Creed II Launcher takes up.  I suspect not much but that's beside the point.  The system resources really aren't a problem in an age where most computers have at least 2 GiB RAM.  The problem is that it requires a virtually uninterruptable internet connection which most of the world doesn't have.
> 
> ...



steam does not require an uninteruptable connection. if it loses net, most of the time your game plays just fine (unless you were in an online game, in which case DUH you lost net)

i play company of heroes with a friend who has dodgy internet, and his steam constantly signs in and out - his game however, does not (it pauses/lags often, but resumes fine regardless of his steam status)

in comparison to the AC II/Ubi DRM, i know which one i prefer.


oh and as to the arguments abouit the old DRM remaning in steam, i give you two versions where it does not.

Company of heroes requires a disk for offline play in the retail version, whereas it doesnt in steam when steam is offline.
Bad company 2 had its securom DRM removed in the steam version as well, albeit after launch. From what i hear that is a requirement due to EU laws, where they cant sell a game on retail shelves without it having a no-CD check/anti piracy measure, so they include that in the 1.0 version and remove it later to get around the requirements.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 5, 2010)

Mussels said:


> steam does not require an uninteruptable connection. if it loses net, most of the time your game plays just fine


I was talking about Ubisoft's DRM.  Steam's fault is it is running at the same time regardless if it is needed just for DRM sake.  Ubisoft commits the greater evil but what Steam is doing is an evil nonetheless.




Mussels said:


> Company of heroes requires a disk for offline play in the retail version, whereas it doesnt in steam when steam is offline.


Steam is still required to run the game (unless it is one of those lucky few that don't, like Dirt2) regardless if it is on or offline.  It's no different in behavior than a Sony Rootkit in practice (something is on your computer to "verify" the game is legal).  The only difference is they aren't doing it behind your back.


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## Mussels (Jul 5, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I was talking about Ubisoft's DRM.  Steam's fault is it is running at the same time regardless if it is needed just for DRM sake.  Ubisoft commits the greater evil but what Steam is doing is an evil nonetheless.
> 
> 
> 
> Steam is still required to run the game (unless it is one of those lucky few that don't, like Dirt2) regardless if it is on or offline.  It's no different in behavior than a Sony Rootkit in practice (something is on your computer to "verify" the game is legal).  The only difference is they aren't doing it behind your back.



i wasnt disagreeing with you, i was adding my two cents, as the saying goes.

steam is required when you start CoH, but nothing past that. many steam games behave like this.

the part about it not running behind your back is exactly why i approve. When you quit steam you cant start your steam games - but its not running in the background, eating resources or conflicting with anything either.


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## JC316 (Jul 5, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> Negatives:
> Forced Auto-Updating
> Useless Valve Anti Cheat
> Steam needs to be running to play the game
> ...



You have valid points. I highly dislike certain things about steam, but the deals they have are undeniable. I have a policy that keeps me happy with steam, I never pay over $20 for a game from them.

The auto updating I don't mind at all, I like it. The VAC is worthless, but better than punkbuster. Steam being on I used to dislike when I had 56K, but broadband is fine, sucks when the internet goes out though. You can pick the folder that it installs to, I have it in my games folder. Stability issues are usually the games fault, not steam and it still beats the crap out of starforce or securerom.

My number one gripe with steam is the fact that you can't sell or transfer your account. That REALLY annoys me because I like to get games, play them and sell em.


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## Fatal (Jul 5, 2010)

I was about to make my first purchase from steam but now am having second thoughts. I dont like the idea of adding software to run a game that bums me out. I guess I will be better off buying the game from a store. Thanks for the info every one


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jul 5, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I was talking about Ubisoft's DRM.  Steam's fault is it is running at the same time regardless if it is needed just for DRM sake.  Ubisoft commits the greater evil but what Steam is doing is an evil nonetheless.
> 
> Steam is still required to run the game (unless it is one of those lucky few that don't, like Dirt2) regardless if it is on or offline.  It's no different in behavior than a Sony Rootkit in practice (something is on your computer to "verify" the game is legal).  The only difference is they aren't doing it behind your back.



who cares if Steam is required to play a game or if it isn't, it's not that stressful. And it allows you to stay connected with friends. And if it's in Offline mode, once again who cares, it's not crushing your system. The instant I start worrying about minor processes slowing down my comp is when I know something is wrong with my hardware.


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## AphexDreamer (Jul 5, 2010)

Steam is like PSN or Xbox live with out being like PSN or XBOX live. IDK if that made sense but that how it is lol. I like steam its never messed up on me on account for the two times my account got stolen but I got it back both times so yeah  Steam is great


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## Mr McC (Jul 5, 2010)

Fatal said:


> I was about to make my first purchase from steam but now am having second thoughts. I dont like the idea of adding software to run a game that bums me out. I guess I will be better off buying the game from a store. Thanks for the info every one



It is becoming increasingly difficult to find a store that stocks all the latest titles, at least where I am. I think you have come away from the thread with the wrong impression. Steam is by no means perfect and there are certainly a number of legitimate gripes; however, given the sales, the ablility to download your games to any computer, the more or less painless operation and the fact that you no longer need to worry about patching everything, it is probably as user-friendly as DRM is going to get. Make no mistake, DRM is going nowhere, I mean, people are still buying Ubisoft titles, so there is little point waiting for consumer pressure to deliver any changes. Steam, as it stands, seems like an acceptable compromise that offers a number of advantages over other forms of DRM. My only real complaint, as I stated above, is the inclusion of other third-party DRM on certain titles and a failure to disclose the inclusion of said DRM in all cases. Then again, if DRM is a concern, you would probably investigate the protection on any given title before purchase anyway.


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## MoonPig (Jul 5, 2010)

I don't get this. Steam has been amazing to me. The ability to get new games for stupdily cheap prices and download them is awesome. Some of my favourite things about Steam:

Library - All your games, everywhere, when you want them. Just click and download.

Updates - Every game, if you want, can be kept up-to-date so you don't have to search the net.

Prices - Borderlands for £6, Bioshock2 for £10, GTAIV for £5, Unreal Pack for £7.... my god.

Friends - Easy to view games and join friends.

Background - Allows you to use the internet/talk without alt+tabing. Also takes up next to no space when running.

Speeds - I get a constant 850kb/s when downloading, thats higher than torrents for me...

As far as DRM goes, Steam is great. It's not some crapping EA DRM that forces no fun and entering of Keys. It's simple, effective and by far the best platform i've ever used for games.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 5, 2010)

JC316 said:


> You have valid points. I highly dislike certain things about steam, but the deals they have are undeniable. I have a policy that keeps me happy with steam, I never pay over $20 for a game from them.


I agree.  All my Steam games were free except one: Saints Row II, which I bought (DVD-Version) for like $10.  It sucks that Saints Row II requires Steam but there's no way to play the game on PC without it (major sucks).  That and the major performance issues were probably why its sales on PC were pathetic.




1Kurgan1 said:


> who cares if Steam is required to play a game or if it isn't, it's not that stressful. And it allows you to stay connected with friends. And if it's in Offline mode, once again who cares, it's not crushing your system. The instant I start worrying about minor processes slowing down my comp is when I know something is wrong with my hardware.


I do.  I want to play a game, not run Steam to play a game.  Even GFWL starts after the game is started--far more logical.

Ventrilo is for staying connected with friends.


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## hat (Jul 5, 2010)

Why do you have such a hard time with running Steam? I think Steam is great... no messing around with physical discs, the Steam community, the prices, fast downloads (as fast as my connection cap will allow anyways)... I can only think of 3 valid complaints for Steam:

1. Downloading a bunch of games, say after a reformat, is painful.

2. Some games don't have patches, and you can't manually install patches. Stalker Shadow of Chernobyl is stuck at v1.0005, for example.

3. It would be nice if you could allow Steam to continue downloading games after you start a game through Steam, and if there was a bandwidth control system... I can download at 200KB/s and still play online comfortably, so why shouldn't I if I have a bunch of games to download?


----------



## entropy13 (Jul 5, 2010)

Prices - Steam prices are good but there is no way they can accept cash. 

Speeds - Useless when it's the local infrastructure that hampers you, not the servers.

About the auto-update: so it can be turned off with the games, but how about Steam itself? I tried installing the Steam installer that came bundled in something else I got which isn't a game. Done with installation but the "Updating Steam" takes a lot of time. So I just uninstalled it.



hat said:


> 2. Some games don't have patches, and you can't manually install patches. Stalker Shadow of Chernobyl is stuck at v1.0005, for example.



Just checked the Steam list and Neverwinter Nights 2 isn't there, one of the reasons is most probably because it would be a PITA to patch "automatically" (besides the obvious reason of Bioware not being a "partner"). There would be the Main Campaign-only versions of the patches, then the Main Campaign+MoTB versions of the patches, and then the Main Campaign+SoZ versions of the patches. There are also the Main Campaign+MoTB+SoZ versions of the patches. Then there are the Languages patches, with their own different versions for different main patches as well.


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## Nick89 (Jul 5, 2010)

You have the games on steam FOREVER. and dont have to worry about loosing disks.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 5, 2010)

hat said:


> Why do you have such a hard time with running Steam?


It's DRM.  It falls in the same category of SecuROM, Star-Force, and Tages in my book.  They added other stuff to help you forget the primary reason why it exists in the first place.  I have not, nor ever will, forget that.


Like hat said, having to download more than once is a real PITA.  There are games weighing in at 13 GiB these days.  On my connection (which won't be getting any faster in the foreseeable future), that would take no less than 11 hours to download.  With the disk, it takes all of 15 seconds to spin around and grab it from my 200+ CD binders.


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## ste2425 (Jul 5, 2010)

i dont understand why steam running in the background is such a problem? i think its a good idea on the whole anti piracy thing and who really has a computer nowadays where running steam has an impact on their gameplay? Its not like steam pops up when you don't want it to or little notifications pop up like windows live. Just logging (or have it do it automaticly) click on you game done. When you quit your game you just spend and extra secomd closing steam. It'd would take just as long to run a game without steam clicking on start, then games, then the game you want. I think its either sheer stubbornness of laziness


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 5, 2010)

I don't understand how you don't have a problem with Steam but have a problem with SecuROM, Star-Force, and Tages when they are even more transparent than Steam (no tray icon, no running processes).  See, it works both ways. 

When does SecuROM pop up?  When the disk isn't in the drive.  When does Steam pop up?  When you are trying to play any Steam game.  All the same to me.  SecuROM is actually less obnoxious when it works.


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## ste2425 (Jul 5, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I don't understand how you don't have a problem with Steam but have a problem with SecuROM, Star-Force, and Tages when they are even more transparent than Steam (no tray icon, no running processes).  See, it works both ways.



haha true  i gues i like steam coz it dont _look_ like DRM. Which i dont have a problem with if implimented well, like steam. Everyone says they hate piracy but when something comearound to stop it people hate it. Understandably some drm are absolute cr@p but i think steam is the better out of most.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 5, 2010)

ste2425 said:


> haha true  i gues i like steam coz it dont _look_ like DRM.


That's where we disagree. In my eye, it has DRM written all over it (developed by a software publishing company, often requires an Internet connection, updates all the freakin' time, runs when games do, required to install some applications, etc.).


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## ste2425 (Jul 5, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> That's where we disagree. In my eye, it has DRM written all over it (developed by a software publishing company, often requires an Internet connection, updates all the freakin' time, runs when games do, required to install some applications, etc.).



hmmm true i can understand what your saying and how that could annoy you, or anyone but im shore you can set automatic updates, like windows, so it updates at times when not playing games. Plus i oftem play minus an internet connection.

BTW im not trying to force my opinion on you or say your wrong, just having a friendly debate


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## jimmyme (Jul 5, 2010)

Vote cast!    /Yeah, I agree, I use it rarely or not at all anymore./
Looks like we are the minority but this is a tech website and forum afterall.

I only use Steam because Tripwire only release RO through it...


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## DrPepper (Jul 5, 2010)

I think steam is the only form of DRM I actually like using.


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## Cold Storm (Jul 5, 2010)

I'm with ya Pepper.. There is other's but Steams doesn't bug me as the others.. IMO.

As for redownloading.. I'll hit it up in the morning, before work, & it's ready for me when I get home.. I have it all on one hdd, so all I have to worry about, reinstalling the "directX" stuff.. Then move over the saves to the place that is needed.. I'm one of those people that format the os every 3m.. So, I've got steam down pat on instant play on the games I play a lot.


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## Mussels (Jul 5, 2010)

Cold Storm said:


> I'm with ya Pepper.. There is other's but Steams doesn't bug me as the others.. IMO.
> 
> As for redownloading.. I'll hit it up in the morning, before work, & it's ready for me when I get home.. I have it all on one hdd, so all I have to worry about, reinstalling the "directX" stuff.. Then move over the saves to the place that is needed.. I'm one of those people that format the os every 3m.. So, I've got steam down pat on instant play on the games I play a lot.



unlike all other DRM, steam actually has a purpose. its a chat client, a download manager, an online store, and more.

all the other DRM's do nothing BUT DRM, so we hate them for it - steam is DRM with benefits to offset the annoyance.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 5, 2010)

Mussels said:


> unlike all other DRM, steam actually has a purpose. its a chat client, a download manager, an online store, and more.
> 
> all the other DRM's do nothing BUT DRM, so we hate them for it - steam is DRM with benefits to offset the annoyance.


EA Download Manager has download managing and an online store too, yet, everyone hates it.  I can't imagine many people even use the chat functionality in Steam because there's many other clients with far broader acceptance (like AIM and MSN).  Impulse is practically the same as Steam (including chat), yet no where near as popular (probably because they don't offer "weekend sales" and the like).  Why people give Steam a free pass is beyond me.


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## Mussels (Jul 5, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> EA Download Manager has download managing and an online store too, yet, everyone hates it.  I can't imagine many people even use the chat functionality in Steam because there's many other clients with far broader acceptance (like AIM and MSN).  Impulse is practically the same as Steam (including chat), yet no where near as popular (probably because they don't offer "weekend sales" and the like).  Why people give Steam a free pass is beyond me.



EA download manager has limited installs of many games.

impulse and EADM dont have in game chat overlay (AIM, yahoo etc are useless if you cnat use them IN-game like steam chat)


everyone i know uses steam chat. i'd be surprised to find people who DONT, you sound like the first to me.


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## Stak (Jul 5, 2010)

Hahaha i didn't even know steam was DRM before this thread . Steam has never annoyed me. It's a revolutionary program for PC gaming (at least for me). I already liked it even before the big makeover.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 5, 2010)

Mussels said:


> impulse and EADM dont have in game chat overlay (AIM, yahoo etc are useless if you cnat use them IN-game like steam chat)


Which is counter-intuitive in my book.  If I am in a game, I don't want to be disturbed by anyone unless it is game-specific.  In which case, I'll either use the game's built in chat capabilities or VoIP (Ventrilo/TeamSpeak).


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## MoonPig (Jul 5, 2010)

You can turn notifications off.

Tbh, it seems most of people problems with steam can be changing in the options...


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## Mussels (Jul 5, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Which is counter-intuitive in my book.  If I am in a game, I don't want to be disturbed by anyone unless it is game-specific.  In which case, I'll either use the game's built in chat capabilities or VoIP (Ventrilo/TeamSpeak).



you obviously have few friends who game, and never try and organise matches. Many games have no in game chat (mostly racing games) or ones that only work once all players are either in the game, or the pre-game lobby. how do you ask for others to join, alt tab and risk your game crashing/screwing up? call then on a phone?

steam has many, many benefits... they may not suit you, but thats not steams fault.


----------



## MLG The Canadian (Jul 5, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> Auto updating is way from positive because you can't play the game AT ALL if it doesn't update , this means you are bound from starting the game at all.
> 
> simple pay download and play is also a negative from a collectors view , because you don't own a physical copy and it can get lost , you can burn it , but that won't work with the profile then you'll have to crack it afaik.
> 
> What's more , i don't use credit cards or any kind of international online payment to be even relying on steam alone.



1   Why are you complaining that your games get updated and you don't have to find the updates and download them from crappy mirrors? It's a good thing, and it isn't forced.

2   Pay and download is better than owning a copy, because unless you fuck up and cheat or be an idiot, or give away your accounts security, you will ALWAYS have that game, on any PC you want, available to you. You can't "lose" a game over steam, that's the point. If you uninstall it, it sits in your library as a free download link to the files. Plus, under your account settings you have the receipts to all the downloads and purchases you make, and Valve customer service is great. 

3   They accept prepaid mastercards/visa. I'm just turning 19 in a few days and I'll have my first credit card, and I've been using prepaid cards for years. I occasionally use a friends credit card because I trust and love steam and so does everybody else lol.

It's up to you, you can buy CD's and have a cluttered gaming space in which you can't take with you, or keep from breaking indefinitely, or keep from expiring warantys or disc scratch replacement warranty, and buy things at full price.

Totally up to you. lol.


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Jul 5, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I do.  I want to play a game, not run Steam to play a game.  Even GFWL starts after the game is started--far more logical.
> 
> Ventrilo is for staying connected with friends.



Does your PC have a hard time running Steam or something? You know your car would get better gas mileage if your ripped the entire interior out and sat on a plastic crate, but I doubt it's worth the savings to most people.

Ventrillo is for holding full conversations, and for talking to people you know in person. I am not going to run a vent when I just want to link images and general BS with numerous people. The idea of getting a bunch f my friends together in vent who all don't know each other doesn't really sound that great to me.



FordGT90Concept said:


> Which is counter-intuitive in my book.  If I am in a game, I don't want to be disturbed by anyone unless it is game-specific.  In which case, I'll either use the game's built in chat capabilities or VoIP (Ventrilo/TeamSpeak).



You are a very concentrated player then, most people I know send a few messages back and forth during gaming, it's nice when your friends are gaming but not in the same game as you. When I played WoW it was nice to be able to talk to friends who played on different servers, worked the same as in game whispers, but you can't do that cross servers.

And not to mention, I would run it alone for the games library, I have almost 300GB worth of games, and its a massive list, having a place where they all are in a nice small list that I can see almost all of the titles at once, without having them clutter up some folder or my desktop is very nice. Plus it track the hours I play and achievements. Your living in the past, today is about being connected with people at all times, and things are going to keep moving in that direction, its the future, if everyone hated every new idea we wouldn't get anywhere. Why have a number pad on a phone when a rotary worked just fine?


----------



## Darknova (Jul 5, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> EA Download Manager has download managing and an online store too, yet, everyone hates it.  I can't imagine many people even use the chat functionality in Steam because there's many other clients with far broader acceptance (like AIM and MSN).  Impulse is practically the same as Steam (including chat), yet no where near as popular (probably because they don't offer "weekend sales" and the like).  Why people give Steam a free pass is beyond me.



I ran a steam clan and have many friends in steam, I love the fact that I can chat to them while in-game. It's so much easier to get a game together on steam, or to join a friends game, no need to get the IP or anything off them just join via the friends interface. If you're not already in-game it will launch the game and auto-connect to the server they are on.

It sounds like Steam just doesn't suit how you play games, doesn't mean it's evil though, everyone has different opinions.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jul 5, 2010)

Mussels said:


> you obviously have few friends who game, and never try and organise matches. Many games have no in game chat (mostly racing games) or ones that only work once all players are either in the game, or the pre-game lobby. how do you ask for others to join, alt tab and risk your game crashing/screwing up? call then on a phone?


VoIP.




1Kurgan1 said:


> Ventrillo is for holding full conversations, and for talking to people you know in person. I am not going to run a vent when I just want to link images and general BS with numerous people. The idea of getting a bunch f my friends together in vent who all don't know each other doesn't really sound that great to me.


Skype is for "holding full conversations."  Ventrillo is a push-to-talk application which naturally leads to short spurts of messages (command/acknowledge or question/answer).

But you would run Steam for general BS with numerous people?  How odd.

Nothing sounds great until you try it. 





1Kurgan1 said:


> You are a very concentrated player then, most people I know send a few messages back and forth during gaming, it's nice when your friends are gaming but not in the same game as you. When I played WoW it was nice to be able to talk to friends who played on different servers, worked the same as in game whispers, but you can't do that cross servers.


Ventrilo runs on a separate server.  If it is running, it will work.  It's like Steam but isn't DRM and talking is much faster than typing.




1Kurgan1 said:


> And not to mention, I would run it alone for the games library, I have almost 300GB worth of games, and its a massive list, having a place where they all are in a nice small list that I can see almost all of the titles at once, without having them clutter up some folder or my desktop is very nice. Plus it track the hours I play and achievements. Your living in the past, today is about being connected with people at all times, and things are going to keep moving in that direction, its the future, if everyone hated every new idea we wouldn't get anywhere. Why have a number pad on a phone when a rotary worked just fine?


I had around 350 GiB of games installed before I formatted.  I'm already up to about 50 GiB and Steam ain't even installed.  Games for Windows-Live is though because The Club needs it.  I don't own any games via GFWL though.

There are 4x200 and 2x40 disk binders behind me over 75% full of CDs and DVDs.  It's a massive "list" and I can see all my titles at once.  Or I could get a list of all the downloads for said games off my server with a simple batch file.  Which I did, just because:


Spoiler



18 Wheels of Steel - Across America
18 Wheels of Steel - Pedal to the Metal
25 to Life
A Bee Movie
A-Train 8
Act of War - Direct Action
Age of Empires II
Age of Empires III
Age of Mythology
Airline Tycoon Evolution
Alpha Protocol
American Chopper
Anno 1404
ARMA II
Army Men - Sarge's War
Assassin's Creed
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman - Arkham Asylum
Battlefield - Bad Company 2
Battlefield 1942
Battlefield 2142
Battlefield Vietnam
Battlestations - Pacific
Beyond Good & Evil
Black & White
Black & White 2
Blur
Borderlands
Brothers in Arms - Earned in Blood
Brothers in Arms - Hell's Highway
Brothers in Arms - Road to Hill 30
Bully - Scholarship Edition
Cabela's 4X4 Off-road Adventure
Call of Duty
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 4
City Bus Simulator 2010
City Life - World Edition
Civilization III
Civilization IV
Civilization IV - Colonization
Close Combat
Close Combat 2 - A Bridge Too Far
Close Combat 3 - The Russian Front
Close Combat 4 - Battle of the Bulge
Close Combat 5 - Invasion Normandy
Club, The
Command & Conquer - Kane's Wrath
Command & Conquer - Red Alert 3
Command & Conquer - Red Alert 3 - Uprising
Command & Conquer - The First Decade
Command & Conquer 3 - Tiberium Wars - Kane Edition
Command & Conquer 4 - Tiberian Twilight
Company of Heroes
Company of Heroes - Opposing Fronts
Company of Heros - Tales of Valor
COPS 2170
Crazy Machines 2+
Crysis
Crysis - Warhead
Damnation
Delta Force - Black Hawk Down
Delta Force - Land Warrior
Delta Force - Task Force Dagger
Descent 3
Deus Ex
Deus Ex - Invisible War
Diablo II
Diablo II - Lord of Destruction
Dragon Age - Origins
Dreamfall
Driv3r
Driver - Parrallel Lines
Duke Nukem - Manhattan Project
Dungeon Keeper II
Earth 2140
Earth 2150
Earth 2160
Elder Scrolls III, The - Morrowind
Elder Scrolls IV, The - Oblivion
Empire Earth
Empire Earth II
Empire Earth III
Evil Genius
Experiment, The
Fable - The Lost Chapters
Fallout 2
Fallout 3
Fallout Tactics
Far Cry 2
Farming Simulator 2009
FlatOut
FlatOut 2
FlatOut Ultimate Carnage
Flight Simulator 2004
Ford Racing - Off Road
Freedom Fighters
Freedom Force
Freedom Force vs The Third Reich
Freelancer
Frontlines - Fuel of War
Full Spectrum Warrior
Full Spectrum Warrior - Ten Hammers
Gangland
Godfather II, The
Godfather, The
Grand Theft Auto - San Andreas
Grand Theft Auto - Vice City
Grand Theft Auto II
Grand Theft Auto III
Grand Theft Auto IV
Ground Control
Ground Control II
Guild 2, The
Guild 2, The - Pirates of the European Seas
Guild 2, The - Venice
Gun
Halo
Hard Truck Apocalypse
Hitman - Blood Money
Hitman - Contracts
Hitman 2 - Silent Assassin
Homeworld - Cataclysm
Hysteria Hospital - Emergency Ward
Jagged Alliance
James Bond 007 - Nightfire
James Bond 007 - Quantum of Solace
Jaws Unleashed
John Deere American Farmer
John Deere American Farmer Deluxe
Juiced 2 - Hot Import Nights
Just Cause
Just Cause 2
Kane & Lynch
Kung Fu Panda
Lego Batman
Lego Indiana Jones
Lego Indiana Jones 2
Lego Racers 2
Lego Star Wars Saga
Leisure Suit Larry
Leisure Suit Larry - Box Office Bust
Longest Journey, The
Lord of the Rings - Battle to Middle Earth II
Lord of the Rings - Conquest
Made Man
Mafia
Mall Tycoon
Manhunt
Mass Effect
Mass Effect 2
Mech Commander
MechWarrior 4
Medal of Honor - Airborne
Medal of Honor - Allied Assult
Medal of Honor - Pacific Assult
Medieval II - Total War
Mercenaries 2 - World In Flames
Metal Gear Solid
Metro 2033
Midnight Club 2
Mirror's Edge
Monkey Island 4 - Escape from Monkey Island
Monsters vs Aliens
Movies, The
Myst - Uru
Myst III - Exile
Myst IV - Revelation
Myst V - End of Ages
Need for Speed - Carbon
Need for Speed - Most Wanted
Need for Speed - Prostreet
Need for Speed - Shift
Need for Speed - Undercover
Need for Speed - Underground
Need for Speed - Underground 2
Neverwinter Nights
No One Lives Forever
Oddworld - Abe's Exoddus
Operation Flashpoint
Overlord
Overlord II
Pet Vet 3D - Animal Hospital Down Under
Pirates of the Caribbean
Playboy - The Mansion
Political Machine, The
Populous
Port Royale
Prank TV
Prey
Prince of Persia - Sands of Time
Prince of Persia - The Two Towers
Prince of Persia - Warrior Within
Prototype
Quake
Quake II
Quake III
Railroad Tycoon
Rainbow Six
Red Faction
Red Faction Guerrilla
Red Faction II
Restricted Area
RollerCoaster Tycoon
Rome - Total War
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Call of Pripyat
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Clear Sky
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - Shadow of Chernobyl
Saboteur, The
Saints Row 2
Scarface
School Tycoon
Secret of Monkey Island, The - Special Edition
Serious Sam HD - The First Encounter
Settlers 7
ShellShock - Nam '67
Sid Meier's Pirates!
Sid Meier's Railroads!
SimCity 3000 Unlimited
SimCity 4
SimCity Societies
SimCity Societies Deluxe
SimCopter
SimGolf
SimHealth
Simpsons, The - Hit & Run
Sims 2, The
Sims 3, The
Sims, The
Singularity
Sins of a Solar Empire - Trinity
Sonic Heroes
Space Colony
Space Siege
Spaceforce - Captains
Spaceforce Rogue Universe
Spider Man 2
Splinter Cell
Splinter Cell - Chaos Theory
Splinter Cell - Conviction
Splinter Cell - Double Agent
Splinter Cell - Pandora Tomorrow
Split Second
Spore
Star Trek - Starfleet Command 3
Starlancer
Startopia
Streets of SimCity
Stronghold
Stronghold 2
Stronghold Crusader
Stronghold Crusader Extreme
Stronghold Legends
Supreme Commander
Supreme Commander 2
Supreme Ruler 2010
System Shock 2
Tank Combat
Test Drive
Test Drive 5
Test Drive Unlimited
Theme Hospital
Thief 3
TimeShift
Tony Hawk Underground 2
Total Overdose
Train Simulator 2004
Tropico 2 - Pirate Cove
Tropico 3
Tropico Mucho Macho Edition
True Crime - New York City
True Crime - Streets of L.A
Turning Point - Fall of Liberty
Tycoon City - New York
Universe at War - Earth Assault
Unreal Tournament 2004
Unreal Tournament III
Wanted - Weapons of Fate
Warhammer 40,000 - Dawn of War 2
Warzone 2100
Wheelman
Wildfire
Wings of Prey
Witcher, The
Wolfenstein
World in Conflict
World War III - Black Gold
Worms - Forts Under Siege
Worms 3D
Worms 4 - Mayhem
X - Beyond the Frontier
X - Tension
X2 - The Threat
X3 - Reunion
X3 - Terran Conflict
XIII


All my games are in Windows Vista/7's convinent "Games" dir/app (about the only thing I like about Win ver 6).  Steam, unfortunately, isn't compatible with it because all game launches go through it.  Windows is unable to retreive game information like the Publisher, Developer, Product Version, Release Date, Genre, ESRB rating, or performance recommendations because Steam masks it.

I don't care how long I play games and every game has its own means to track achivements.  Some do it internally, some use GFWL.  In all cases, it's pretty useless.


Rotary dial didn't work fine.  It was slow and AT&T sold the idea of a touch-tone dialer by demonstrating how much faster than rotoary pulse dialers they were.  Speed sells, which is why disks aren't going anywhere.




Darknova said:


> ...no need to get the IP or anything off them just join via the friends interface.


That's what domain names are for.  The domain always points to the Ventrilo server.




Darknova said:


> It sounds like Steam just doesn't suit how you play games, doesn't mean it's evil though, everyone has different opinions.


You can put lipstick (fancy GUI) on a pig (DRM), but it's still a pig (DRM).


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jul 5, 2010)

If anyone wants to see how this argument ends read this.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=123655

DRM has now entered the halls of ATI vs Nvidia and AMD vs Intel.


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Jul 5, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Skype is for "holding full conversations."  Ventrillo is a push-to-talk application which naturally leads to short spurts of messages (command/acknowledge or question/answer).
> 
> But you would run Steam for general BS with numerous people?  How odd.
> 
> Nothing sounds great until you try it.



Ventrillo is push to talk for large groups where many people shouldnt have background noise going at the sametime. Like in a raid type setting, if I hear someone saying "im eating a cheeseburger" randomly 5 minutes after they said "hi" I most likely will not hear them. But if a message flashes n the lower portion of my screen I can simply push Shift + Tab and say "burgers sound good right about now", that takes a whole 5 seconds. When I play videogames I play them to relax, to enjoy my time, I don't glue my eyelids open and harness myself to my monitor, lock my door and tell everyone to leave me the hell alone. Having small  BS convo's with numerous people is enjoyable.

I got quite a few from TPU on my list and we exchange little messages here and there, not a point to tell them to hop on vent everytime I want to say "hey did you buy this game", or "hey did you see this new patch", when the convo might only be a few exchangings of words. I also hate headsets, with a passion, I'm playing to relax, having something convering my ears is not relaxing.






FordGT90Concept said:


> Ventrilo runs on a separate server.  If it is running, it will work.  It's like Steam but isn't DRM and talking is much faster than typing.



DRM DRM DRM.... I havent ever had an issue with any DRM, especially not Steams, it works fine, it has a ton of nice features. And by server I meant realm, as in the ones you play in on MMO's. The DRM boat has set sail, this isn't a taxing application, and if people are having issues with patches or the fact that they need an updated game, then don't buy copies on Steam if you have internet thats not always up and running, it's that simple. I like Burgers (as we already covered), but I am not going to drive 250 miles to get Burger King when there is one a few miles a way. If it's a hassle that causes your comp to run slow, causes you to DL patches slow (slow internet), or any other issue, then don't use it. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it, it means you don't have the setup to use it or the need too. Just like I'm sure that Burger King 250 miles away makes great food, but I'm not going to be going there.





FordGT90Concept said:


> I had around 350 GiB of games installed before I formatted.  I'm already up to about 50 GiB and Steam ain't even installed.  Games for Windows-Live is though because The Club needs it.  I don't own any games via GFWL though.
> 
> There are 4x200 and 2x40 disk binders behind me over 75% full of CDs and DVDs.  It's a massive "list" and I can see all my titles at once.  Or I could get a list of all the downloads for said games off my server with a simple batch file.  Which I did, just because:
> 
> ...



I'm glad you have that many games, but I also got just about the same, I don't even have all my Steam games DL'd and I got numerous non-Steam games. But the fact of the matter is, I got a kid, and I hate storing cases and crap, or rummaging through a lot of junk to find a game I want. Having it digital, it won't get scratched, it won't get lost, it's always there, it's always patched, and I don't have to go jump through some horrible loop holes to patch it. 

If you don't like achievements, you don't care how they are tracked, or you think they are useless, thats just how you feel. But it's nice to have them all tracked in one place, where you can see what you have accomplished, what good is it to me when I have to load up each game I own to see what I have got done, or maybe a friend wants to compare, to have them all in the same place is a nice feature.

And rotary dial did work fine, it didn't work the fastest, but that didn't mean it didn't work fine. There was nothing wrong with it and switching to another process didn't make the world spin backwards. CD's aren't going anywhere, I don't think anyone is arguing that here, not everyone that enjoys gaming has highspeed net, when I lived at my parents it wasn't even available there. But for those that do Steam is a great thing to have, if you don't like being connected to others, don't like great deals on games, stat tracking, achievement tracking, a nice place for all your shortcuts to be, a store where all the game reviews + trailers + screenshots are at, something that shows you what games your friends are playing (another small conversation piece that vent isn't needed for), and a place to get basic news about a game, then Steams not for you. Doesn't mean it's not great, it means you don't have a use for it, it's impossible to make everyone in this world like something. You can make a lot like it, but there will always be someone who looks for a fault. I could say Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time, and I'm sure I could get people disagreeing even though a majority of people would agree, can't always please everyone. It just seems sometimes those who aren't pleased make the loudest noise when most others are happy.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jul 5, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> If anyone wants to see how this argument ends read this.
> 
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=123655
> 
> DRM has now entered the halls of ATI vs Nvidia and AMD vs Intel.


Exactly.


I agree with the OP.  /fin


FYI, there's about 300 titles on that list and it doesn't include all--only those with 3rd party downloads.  It also doesn't list all the expansions because they are in subdirectories.  Nor does it list games that are completely on my server (no disks).


----------



## shevanel (Jul 5, 2010)

I do not even understand the purpose of DRM nor have I ever cared to educate myself on the matter.


----------



## entropy13 (Jul 5, 2010)

shevanel said:


> I do not even understand the purpose of DRM nor have I ever cared to educate myself on the matter.



You already know the purpose. It's in your avatar. Not really kick some ass, but you get the point.


----------



## shevanel (Jul 5, 2010)

my avatar is a joke towards people with power and the power trips they take themselves on.. everyday I see someone abusing their power and no one says anything about it.. but that's a whole entirely other matter lol

but anyway, I like steam.


----------



## Mr McC (Jul 5, 2010)

shevanel said:


> I do not even understand the purpose of DRM nor have I ever cared to educate myself on the matter.



The purpose is to do away with the second-hand games market, nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## shevanel (Jul 5, 2010)

oh then steam does it the best.


----------



## brandonwh64 (Jul 5, 2010)

7/81/2 LOLZ 

I think its unanimous


----------



## RejZoR (Jul 5, 2010)

Mr McC said:


> The purpose is to do away with the second-hand games market, nothing more, nothing less.



The only problem with it is that it's also taking the first hand market away...


----------



## Steevo (Jul 5, 2010)

I manually patched my GTA before the patch was out on steam, it worked fine.

I downloaded all my games to my parents new PC I built them, they live in Cali. So I could play games while I was there and introduce them to games like GTA, HL2, Portal, the new CIV.

I have a four year old, a two year old and a old house we are remodeling, I have no place to really keep my games besides in storage.


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Jul 5, 2010)

shevanel said:


> my avatar is a joke towards people with power and the power trips they take themselves on.. everyday I see someone abusing their power and no one says anything about it.. but that's a whole entirely other matter lol
> 
> but anyway, I like steam.



Can I have some power to abuse?



Mr McC said:


> The purpose is to do away with the second-hand games market, nothing more, nothing less.



Thats not the point of DRM, thats the point of that new strategy of charging $10 to each person who buys a game second hand to be able to use the online abilities. DRM is to stop their shit from getting stolen, and it makes sense, it sucks that they have to go to such great length and sometimes it gives people who bought the game issues. But do you just let people steal from you? And if you knew someone that did steal from you, what would you do?


----------



## kid41212003 (Jul 5, 2010)

You quadbike-barbecue them.


----------



## Mr McC (Jul 5, 2010)

1Kurgan1 said:


> Thats not the point of DRM, thats the point of that new strategy of charging $10 to each person who buys a game second hand to be able to use the online abilities. DRM is to stop their shit from getting stolen, and it makes sense, it sucks that they have to go to such great length and sometimes it gives people who bought the game issues. But do you just let people steal from you? And if you knew someone that did steal from you, what would you do?



I beg to differ. No form of DRM has prevented game theft to date. I would go further and say that some of the more draconian forms of DRM have actually driven more people to piracy. The companies are not stupid, why do you think that they pour millions into DRM despite it's inability to achieve its stated objective and despite the vehement backlash from customers?


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Jul 5, 2010)

Necrofire said:


> Actually, you really only have to install steam once
> Copy the SteamApps folder and Steam.exe where you want, and then open steam. It'll do all the dirty work and you're back in business.
> 
> Did that last windows install, didn't lose a thing.
> ...


Future of games for Linux IMO
no need for native anything 
Like Steam but no need to download..Games stay on online server 
Not high end graphics yet but good enough and you don't need a console or a high end somputer
Onlive.com


----------



## kid41212003 (Jul 5, 2010)

Mr McC said:


> I beg to differ. No form of DRM has prevented game theft to date. I would go further and say that some of the more draconian forms of DRM have actually driven more people to piracy. The companies are not stupid, why do you think that they pour millions into DRM despite it's inability to achieve its stated objective and despite the vehement backlash from customers?



Let them do it.

If their bs make games hard to play then stop buying games from them.

We see murders everyday, ohhh let's get rid of the police! They're useless!

Right.


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Jul 5, 2010)

Mr McC said:


> I beg to differ. No form of DRM has prevented game theft to date. I would go further and say that some of the more draconian forms of DRM have actually driven more people to piracy. These companies are not stupid, why do you think that they pour millions into DRM despite it's inability to achieve its stated objective and despite the vehement backlash from customers?



It has stopped some, and thats the goal, there really isnt another option, it's like door locks and cars. Those won't stop crap it's and simple and breaking your window, yet do you lock your car doors? I do and I've had numerous cars broken into at different times. Theres loop holes in everything, especially when you have teams of people working to break your security. They intend to make something that makes their property secure, then someone goes out and cracks it, so the next answer is to do what they did before, but with more force, and that gets broken, then repeat, repeat, repeat. These people put a lot of time into these games and people feel the need to take their time and give them nothing in return, they don't have a ton of other options.

I'm not saying it's all right, or that DRM is great, but I'm saying whats happening is predictable based on teams cracking shit right away, don't blame the developers, blame them. Ubisoft announces that new DRM for Assassins Creed 2 where you must be connected to the internet all the time.... response is 24 hours after its out a whole team has cracked it and put a letter in their crack to work on the games not the DRM. But that team cracks games all the time, and if there was nothing to test them then the games would be online and free and it would be exactly the same.

Like I said it's like locking your doors when your houses/cars/garages all have windows, but I'm betting you still lock them up.


----------



## Laurijan (Jul 5, 2010)

i dont like steam for one reason - $ is not €


----------



## Mr McC (Jul 5, 2010)

1Kurgan1 said:


> It has stopped some, and thats the goal, there really isnt another option, it's like door locks and cars. Those won't stop crap it's and simple and breaking your window, yet do you lock your car doors? I do and I've had numerous cars broken into at different times. Theres loop holes in everything, especially when you have teams of people working to break your security. They intend to make something that makes their property secure, then someone goes out and cracks it, so the next answer is to do what they did before, but with more force, and that gets broken, then repeat, repeat, repeat. These people put a lot of time into these games and people feel the need to take their time and give them nothing in return, they don't have a ton of other options.
> 
> I'm not saying it's all right, or that DRM is great, but I'm saying whats happening is predictable based on teams cracking shit right away, don't blame the developers, blame them. Ubisoft announces that new DRM for Assassins Creed 2 where you must be connected to the internet all the time.... response is 24 hours after its out a whole team has cracked it and put a letter in their crack to work on the games not the DRM. But that team cracks games all the time, and if there was nothing to test them then the games would be online and free and it would be exactly the same.
> 
> Like I said it's like locking your doors when your houses/cars/garages all have windows, but I'm betting you still lock them up.



Again, I disagree. Piracy is blamed for far too much, and all too often used as an excuse for other agendas. Clearly the Internet has exaggerated piracy to some extent, but people were filling up both sides of a D90 cassette with Commodore 64 or Spectrum games long before the Web became common in households. In other words, I question whether piracy rates have increased to the extent that the companies claim. Moreover, given that it is clearly not working, as you yourself point out, why do they keep using it? They have most certainly lost sales by employing certain types of DRM, why do they keep using it? The answer has to be that tying up the second-hand market provides enough profit to offset any losses. 

Here's a question: how many blank tapes did Sony sell in the VHS/ghetto blaster heyday? Did they think people were using these resources to record their singing voices in the shower? These are the same people trying to ram Securom down everbody's throat. 

The focus of DRM, rather than preventing piracy, is to redefine the very concept of ownership. To take your analogy: you will never own another another car, cars will simply be leased to you, so you really shouldn't talk about "your" car.

To get back on topic, it is clear that most of us agree that Steam has triumphed and represents a useful tool on balance. However, it remains DRM and we should never forget that, nor should we be so eager to relinquish our ability to resell games, despite the advantages offered by any particular service.



kid41212003 said:


> Let them do it.
> 
> If their bs make games hard to play then stop buying games from them.
> 
> ...



Wrong, let's not allow the authorities to exceed their powers employing murder rates as an excuse.


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## Gzero (Jul 5, 2010)

jmcslob said:


> Future of games for Linux IMO
> no need for native anything
> Like Steam but no need to download..Games stay on online server
> Not high end graphics yet but good enough and you don't need a console or a high end somputer
> Onlive.com



HAHAH

Oh wait please tell me your not serious? You don't even own the license if you pay for that service. 

Anyway back on topic. I don't feel Steam offers me great value for money. You lock ALL of your games to one account.


<This user has logged on in another location> 

There you have it, no one is allowed to play any of your other games whilst you play CSS etc. That right has been taken away from you.


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## Stak (Jul 5, 2010)

Can wee SEE who voted for what???


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## KingPing (Jul 5, 2010)

It's simple if you don't like Steam buy the retail, PCs are not like consoles (yet), where you have to bend over and wait to get... well, you know. We still have options in the PC.


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## Cold Storm (Jul 5, 2010)

Stak said:


> Can wee SEE who voted for what???



I don't think that it would be a good idea to see what people voted in this poll. It will derail the thread and make the mods have to go to "banstick Hill" and grab a switch off the "Club of Ban".. I think it would be best if we just didn't see the results.


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## RoutedScripter (Jul 5, 2010)

DaveK said:


> Everywhere you go you're going to see forced updates. Xbox Live and PlayStation Network require updates before allowing you to play online. It's not a big deal unless the update messes up your crack or something, otherwise, what reason would a person have for not updating?



That's because UPDATES were forced in MW2 , then you couldn't use things such as console unlocker and other tweaks you need to first backup before updating.




zithe said:


> Up to 200,000 from the government. 400,000 if you're married and using a joint account or the same bank.



That's really what you have in usa , look youtube "money as a debt" seems that in foreclousores you don't get nothing after , but then again i really don't know.



francis511 said:


> Anyone else had trouble with steam and windows 7 x64 ? I try to start L4D 2 and steam doesn`t run right (the service doesn`t start properly). I can work round it by stopping and starting steam manually , but it`s still a PITA.



I have Win7 64x too , did have a major problem when Steam was stuck in an updating loop ,  reinstall didn't help , nothing.



TheMailMan78 said:


> I have never read so much misinformation on TPU in my whole life. This whole thread is a disgrace.



So you're saying im not the only one not knowing things?



1Kurgan1 said:


> Your really going out on a limb here, most of your reasons seem to be like "well if the world ended", well if the world ends the world ends, worry about that when it happens. If you buy a car and you drive it for we'll say 5,000 miles then it blows the motor, what do you do? You deal with it, it's part of life and the odds of that happening are much higher than having Steam just flat out close up shop. If valve bankrupts you still have all of your CD keys (remember you can see them fr each game).



I know, but you'll never know what can happen , still possibility.



JC316 said:


> You have valid points. I highly dislike certain things about steam, but the deals they have are undeniable. I have a policy that keeps me happy with steam, I never pay over $20 for a game from them.
> 
> My number one gripe with steam is the fact that you can't sell or transfer your account. That REALLY annoys me because I like to get games, play them and sell em.



Yeah, I do have , from a modding,tweaking viewpoint , also modifing the profile (i will explain later), I think that's the biggest point of steam they had in mind , control the second-hand market, nevertheless but i honestly always thought steam was better than anything else. But that's valve sakes , i expected more of them.



Fatal said:


> I was about to make my first purchase from steam but now am having second thoughts. I dont like the idea of adding software to run a game that bums me out. I guess I will be better off buying the game from a store. Thanks for the info every one



That was my first impression too , except that i never planned to buy a game, i guess it wasn't as good as it now APPARENTLY is. still it's not perfect , or a substitute of taking over retail.



1Kurgan1 said:


> who cares if Steam is required to play a game or if it isn't, it's not that stressful. And it allows you to stay connected with friends. And if it's in Offline mode, once again who cares, it's not crushing your system. The instant I start worrying about minor processes slowing down my comp is when I know something is wrong with my hardware.



I have Xfire for that so no thanks , btw , i have more real life firends than online.



ste2425 said:


> i dont understand why steam running in the background is such a problem? i think its a good idea on the whole anti piracy thing and who really has a computer nowadays where running steam has an impact on their gameplay? Its not like steam pops up when you don't want it to or little notifications pop up like windows live. Just logging (or have it do it automaticly) click on you game done. When you quit your game you just spend and extra secomd closing steam. It'd would take just as long to run a game without steam clicking on start, then games, then the game you want. I think its either sheer stubbornness of laziness



That's because it feels unsecure , always someting running , when game's crash you always blame it , or GFWL.



MoonPig said:


> You can turn notifications off.
> 
> Tbh, it seems most of people problems with steam can be changing in the options...



I guess i didn't notice



MLG The Canadian said:


> 1   Why are you complaining that your games get updated and you don't have to find the updates and download them from crappy mirrors? It's a good thing, and it isn't forced.
> 
> 2   Pay and download is better than owning a copy, because unless you fuck up and cheat or be an idiot, or give away your accounts security, you will ALWAYS have that game, on any PC you want, available to you. You can't "lose" a game over steam, that's the point. If you uninstall it, it sits in your library as a free download link to the files. Plus, under your account settings you have the receipts to all the downloads and purchases you make, and Valve customer service is great.
> 
> ...



That's because I am a guy who knows well where and how to download patches and that's not a matter of vast proportions in innovation , but rather spoiling us, whatever, the idea is i explained before , forced updates aren't always great from a viewpoint of tweaking,modding. etc.



FordGT90Concept said:


> Exactly.
> 
> 
> I agree with the OP.  /fin



With who?



1Kurgan1 said:


> Thats not the point of DRM, thats the point of that new strategy of charging $10 to each person who buys a game second hand to be able to use the online abilities. DRM is to stop their shit from getting stolen, and it makes sense, it sucks that they have to go to such great length and sometimes it gives people who bought the game issues. But do you just let people steal from you? And if you knew someone that did steal from you, what would you do?



Agreed



Laurijan said:


> i dont like steam for one reason - $ is not €



Yes but that's everywhere , it's the hidden european union tax , i really don't like eu at all , they're going to make us like the usa. People seem to not even realize what are they going into.



Mr McC said:


> Again, I disagree. Piracy is blamed for far too much, and all too often used as an excuse for other agendas. Clearly the Internet has exaggerated piracy to some extent, but people were filling up both sides of a D90 cassette with Commodore 64 or Spectrum games long before the Web became common in households. In other words, I question whether piracy rates have increased to the extent that the companies claim. Moreover, given that it is clearly not working, as you yourself point out, why do they keep using it? They have most certainly lost sales by employing certain types of DRM, why do they keep using it? The answer has to be that tying up the second-hand market provides enough profit to offset any losses.
> 
> Here's a question: how many blank tapes did Sony sell in the VHS/ghetto blaster heyday? Did they think people were using these resources to record their singing voices in the shower? These are the same people trying to ram Securom down everbody's throat.
> 
> ...



Agreed



Gzero said:


> HAHAH
> 
> Oh wait please tell me your not serious? You don't even own the license if you pay for that service.
> 
> ...



So i guess you can't play multiple instances of the game , another negative.




Ok in the end , it's nontheless better than it looked at first, but what about profile settings, it's saved there , i can't edit the profile with programs , change profile-bound CFGs , and the rest , ... this is commonly used when modding tweaking , but i don't know if it's possible in steam.


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## shevanel (Jul 5, 2010)

My daughter just downloaded steam because she wanted to download a few demos to take with her on vacation using the laptop...

I find it odd that she cannot add me to her contact list in the friends client until a game has been purchased on her account...

MEH


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## RoutedScripter (Jul 5, 2010)

You see , it's all about those little annoying details which don't make sense for an advanced user, that's like how windows is stupid sometimes , i just wish i would threw my PC off the window because it's sometimes SO DUMB and stuff doesn't want to work and is stupidly coded.


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## ctrain (Jul 6, 2010)

shevanel said:


> My daughter just downloaded steam because she wanted to download a few demos to take with her on vacation using the laptop...
> 
> I find it odd that she cannot add me to her contact list in the friends client until a game has been purchased on her account...
> 
> MEH



Probably as a prevention measure against any kind of automated spam or whatever else you can imagine. The account is more likely going to be used for some kind of legitimate purpose (gaming!) if someones bought something on it.


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## Mussels (Jul 6, 2010)

ctrain said:


> Probably as a prevention measure against any kind of automated spam or whatever else you can imagine. The account is more likely going to be used for some kind of legitimate purpose (gaming!) if someones bought something on it.



yes. people would make an empty account, add you as a friend/send you a link, and use that link to steal your account.

many of these fakers/pirates wont buy games before trying to steal accounts, because it leaves some kind of trail that could be used to track them down.


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## Gzero (Jul 6, 2010)

RuskiSnajper said:


> With who?
> 
> 
> So i guess you can't play multiple instances of the game , another negative.



OP = thread starter.

I'm not bothered that no one else can play CSS on my CSS account whilst I play CSS as my example, but when I play CSS, why can't say my brother play HL2 or Just Cause 2 or any other game locked into my account.

I know people will just say, make a separate account, but that is impractical since it breaks Steam Friends (you would be constantly changing Friends name and having different friends in that list etc). Also how would you know what games to split across how many accounts? I have over 20 games on my Steam account. Some require Steam to function.


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## Mussels (Jul 6, 2010)

Gzero said:


> OP = thread starter.
> 
> I'm not bothered that no one else can play CSS on my CSS account whilst I play CSS as my example, but when I play CSS, why can't say my brother play HL2 or Just Cause 2 or any other game locked into my account.
> 
> I know people will just say, make a separate account, but that is impractical since it breaks Steam Friends (you would be constantly changing Friends name and having different friends in that list etc). Also how would you know what games to split across how many accounts? I have over 20 games on my Steam account. Some require Steam to function.



yes, the inability to allow multiple PC's to play different games from the one account is a little annoying, but its offset by the cost. steam games are often half the price of retail here (sometimes its MORE than retail, but i buy on discount when its sometimes 1/4 retail or less) - so you could always buy two copies for the same price, and there is your MP.


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## Mr McC (Jul 6, 2010)

Gzero said:


> OP = thread starter.
> 
> I'm not bothered that no one else can play CSS on my CSS account whilst I play CSS as my example, but when I play CSS, why can't say my brother play HL2 or Just Cause 2 or any other game locked into my account?



Because under the new definition of game "ownership" proposed by the companies employing DRM, you are stealing when you allow your brother access to your games: two people, two games. They want to clamp down on our ability to sell, lend or pass games on once we have finished with them, forget about all the bull relating to piracy, that's just a smokescreen.

That said, I agree with Mussels, the advantages of Steam outweigh the hindrances it entails and whilst your objection is valid, it goes against Valve's primary objective, so you are unlikely to see any movement in this regard.


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## Frick (Jul 6, 2010)

I think steam is awesome for smaller indie games, but for full games? I want CD's and thick books.


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## Mr McC (Jul 6, 2010)

Frick said:


> I think steam is awesome for smaller indie games, but for full games? I want CD's and thick books.



I used to think like that and with certain titles I may prefer to buy the physical copy; however, when you live in a studio apartment you are thankful for any possiblity to remove unnecessary clutter. I do agree that it's easier to be able to consult the manual without having to exit the game, but other than that, I don't really miss physical copies. All the manuals are available for consulation online anyway.


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## Frick (Jul 6, 2010)

Mr McC said:


> I used to think like that and with certain titles I may prefer to buy the physical copy; however, when you live in a studio apartment you are thankful for any possiblity to remove unnecessary clutter. I do agree that it's easier to be able to consult the manual without having to exit the game, but other than that, I don't really miss physical copies. All the manuals are available for consulation online anyway.



You read the manual to Outcast? It hade a glossary for the alien language in it. The Blizzard manuals often have lots of stories in them, and I really prefer to have them physicly.

Plus it's a lot more cred-worthy im,o.


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## Techtu (Jul 6, 2010)

Frick said:


> You read the manual to Outcast? It hade a glossary for the alien language in it. The Blizzard manuals often have lots of stories in them, and I really prefer to have them physicly.
> 
> Plus it's a lot more cred-worthy im,o.



I agree, actually reading something in your hand with nice glossy pages etc, is so much more appealing than reading the same stories on a webpage, and yet I hate reading books, manuals and so on, but seem's this is all a matter of personal preference, and I think it would be nice if Steam offered some sort of service where you can .... let's say buy a disc/manual (retail packaging) of the game you brought for a small cost, surely they could team up with some of the game makers out there to do something like this?


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## ERazer (Jul 6, 2010)

love me some steam! one positive i can say about it is just last night one of my steam friend send me message about tf2 engie golden wrench! since my friend noticed i havent played tf2 for some time (blame bc2) now u cant beat that!

BTW add me as friend if need steam firend


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## CDdude55 (Jul 6, 2010)

I definitly love Steam and am a huge fan of Valve's games. I have over 50 games on my Steam account alone.

Only problem for me is that i have shitty internet connection, so it's not very fun trying to actually get this games downloaded. But the Steam sales make it worth it.(and the fact that im usually to lazy to get up and go to a game store. lol)

Some games i do prefer having the box/CD though, like the games that i know will require a large download.(ie. Rage, probably Doom4, The Witcher, probably Crysis 2.. etc) due to my slow internet. Or if there's some kind of cool special/collectors edtion version of a game i want in stores, i'll pick it up.


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## Easy Rhino (Jul 6, 2010)

2 days, 157 posts of pure pointless ranting and arguing.


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