# Does anyone have problems with Asus P67?"



## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

*DISCLAIMER:*

_*READ CAREFULLY IF YOU USE AN ASUS P67 Motherboard.*_

*First things first:* This thread is *NOT* meant to scare any ASUS P67 users, but rather to inform them of what happened to me *TWICE* in 10 months, and let them know that we might do best to exercise caution when using these motherboards, *WHETHER we overclock or not.* 


_*Now, to the "story", I will try to present in a timeline sort of way, so it's better to understand, and not just a wall of text. *_



*MY HARDWARE AT THE TIME OF FIRST DEATH:*

*CPU:* i7 2600k @ 4.2 | 1.224v LOAD.

*MOBO:* ASUS P8P67 Evo (non-B3)

*PSU:* NOX Urano 700w

*RAM:* 4GB |2x2gb| Kingston HyperX 1600mhz @ 1.65v

*GPU:* Sapphire HD 6870 1GB DDR5.




*TIMELINE OF EVENTS* - *1st DEATH (P8P67 Evo + 2600K)* Thread on overclock.net about it.




Late January 2011: I upgrade to Sandy Bridge. I buy a P67 Evo, a 2600K and 4GB of Kingston HyperX 1600 1.65 (more on this later);


From January until February 11th, all works fine and dandy. Sig rig sits at a comfortable and perfectly safe OC @ 4.2ghz with 1.224v under MAX LOAD. All other voltages on AUTO, and RAM was running @ 1.55v 1600mhz (they were 1.65v, but stable at 1.55v);


February 11th: My computer just shuts down while playing CS 1.6. Out of the blue. Never to turn on again.  *Symptoms:* PC won't turn on at all, fans spin for a fraction of a second when power button is pressed. Nothing else happens. 


All parts are taken to the store, where the motherboard is deemed dead.


I still kept my first 2600K, because no one, not even me, suspected of anything else other than a faulty mobo* AFTER THE PSU was tested and deemed OK. *BTW, that PSU still works on my secondary PC since february. 100%. 


February-March: During this time, I was without a system until late March, when the B3 Revision mobos started rolling out. I still had my netbook though, but it was a pain to use as a main for 2 months.


Fast forward to late March, (30th, I believe), my new B3 EVO arrives...


... Only to discover that the previous P67 EVO had killed the CPU as well. *I couldn't find a board to test the CPU on during the recall. Bear that in mind. So I only found out my 2600k was dead when my new mobo came. 
[*]*

Late march: my 2600K goes through RMA, I got a new one in about a week. All is good again.


Early April: I buy a BRAND NEW Corsair TX650, just to be extra cautios. Might as well invest on a decent PSU once and for all, right?

*IMPORTANT REMINDER:* This 1st death occured during the painstakingly long Intel mobo chipset recall. I was without a new motherboard for almost 2 months.



_*Now, we move on to the second death....*_



*MY HARDWARE AT THE TIME OF SECOND DEATH:*

*CPU:* i7 2600k @ 4.2ghz | 1.248v LOAD 

*MOBO:* ASUS P8P67 Evo B3

*PSU:* Corsair TX650w

*RAM:* 8GB |2x2gb| +|2x2gb| Kingston HyperX 1600mhz @ 1.65v

*GPU:* Sapphire HD 6870 1GB DDR5.


*TIMELINE OF EVENTS* - *2nd DEATH (P8P67 Evo B3 + 2600K)* My thread here on Techpowerup about it. And on Xtremesystems too.



From Late March / Early April, everything is absolutely fine and dandy. Sig Rig working wonderfully without a single hiccup. 


Fast forward to late October: BAM! Dies again. This time, not during CS 1.6, but during a 3Dmark Vantage run. Pc shuts down in the same manner as the first time, out of nowhere. Fans do the typical split second spin, and then nothing. Only death. 


Take PC to my store again: *ANOTHER DEAD MOBO and CPU*. 


In the meantime, I swap my RAM to 1.5v DIMMs and with XMP profiles. My previous HyperX ones didn't.





Right Now (November 17th): Sig Rig has been working fine, for now. ALL is at stock now.


I won't touch anything else on this motherboard. 




*MY CURRENT HARDWARE:*

*CPU:* i7 2600k @ STOCK. 

*MOBO:* ASUS P8P67 Evo B3, EVERYTHING @ stock.

*PSU:* Corsair TX650w

*RAM:* 8GB |4x2gb| G.Skill RipJawsX 1600mhz @ 1.5v XMP

*GPU:* Sapphire HD 6870 1GB DDR5.


*BOTTOM LINE: *

*1st DEATH:* In less than a month, my first P67 Evo dies and takes the CPU with it. 

*2nd DEATH:* This time, it took 6 months to die... but it still died. 

*Will it happen a third time? I don't know, but I'm afraid, to be completely honest.*


*One last thing, and this is, IMO, the most important thing:*


*I just couldn't let this go. I KNEW I wasn't doing anything wrong and yet, my hardware had died on me TWICE, under the same mysterious circumstances.

I consider myself an experienced Overclocker, and while at first I though "Oh crap, what am I doing wrong... I hardly believe it's me afterall. It must be something in the hardware.*


*So I decided to digg in as deep as I could... and while I'm NOT listing EVERY case I found, I'm posting the most relevant ones.*

*And...*

* ...It's not happening to just me. In case you were wondering if I'm must be in fact doing something wrong, well, there's been a few "deaths" scattered around the web.*

*The problem is exactly the same: PC shuts down, won't turn on again. in the end, DEAD MOBO and CPU.



Compiled list of ASUS P67 deaths, that also killed the CPU: (Some weren't even overclocking, others were gaming, others were idle).


http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx...7&id=20110426021716988&page=1&SLanguage=en-us

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1593874

http://www.benchtec.co.uk/forums/threads/8115-P8P67-Rev3-Woes.......

http://adrenaline.uol.com.br/forum/.../369578-asus-p8p67-placa-mae-bomba-fujam.html

http://www.overclock.net/t/1014337/dead-p8p67-pro-18-days-old

http://www.overclock.net/t/1042932/p8p67-dead-question-about-upgrade

http://communities.intel.com/thread/20868


PART II


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...ssion-thread&p=4816984&viewfull=1#post4816984

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...ssion-thread&p=4817920&viewfull=1#post4817920

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=18903994

http://www.phforums.co.za/f14/i72600k-asus-p8p67-dying-63481/

https://vip.asus.com/forum/view.asp...board_id=1&model=P8P67&page=1&SLanguage=en-us

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...ssion-thread&p=4970457&viewfull=1#post4970457


And... You know what the Icing on the Cake is?

Just Google : "p8p67 dead", if you have google suggestion ON, you will see google automatically filling in your search.

See what it does? There must be a WHOLE lot of more cases, for Google to have it on auto-suggest already.


CONCLUSION

In the end guys, this is NOT a thread against ASUS. To be honest, they are by far, my only choice for motherboards and I love ASUS stuff. I have 2 notebooks and netbooks from them only., but after seeing my stuff die for no apparent reason, I'm scared.*


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## NdMk2o1o (Nov 17, 2011)

Sucks to have had 2 boards and CPU's die though there is still nothing that lays the blame squarely on the boards and especially as you are not just singling out anyone board but Asus P67 boards in general. 

I feel your pain, but I am sure if one looked hard enough I could also find the same with other brands of boards and perhaps multiple instances, it doesn't mean that wholse series of boards is no good, it means sometimes shit happens and it also happens to other people just to show us that we really aren't as unlucky or songled out as we feel sometimes... 

Just my 2cents though.


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## bogmali (Nov 17, 2011)

Good info. I ran my P8P67 EVO for 3 months folding 24/7 with a 2600K and never had anything die on me. My OC was also @ 4.2 but occasionally it will error out on the folding clients but this is mainly memory related. Yeah that blows that you had to go through 2 cpu's and mobo's.


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## mjkmike (Nov 17, 2011)

I would realy like to see the back of those dead chips.  Sounds to me that the memory controller that is built into sandy bridge got zapped.  TPU's own cadaveca has said allot about running memory on sandy above 1.5 and XMP profiles.  Take some time and read a few revews of his.  P.S my P8P67 has been crunching hard at 100% at 4.5 for months and the P8p67 pro crunched for over 6 months at 4.8 untill I gave that rig to a friend.


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

A few factors that could have contributed to the death:


"PLL OVERVOLTAGE" set to enabled.

"IMC Voltage(VCCIO)" @ 1.2v or higher

Ram voltage over 1.5v on a kit not designed for SandyBridge(every ram kit is made for specific platforms. Yes, they might work in another platform, but at the same time, if it wasn't on the board's QVL, then you are SOL".




That said, I do have a P8P67 pro, and an extra 2600K. Both are sitting in thier boxes.


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## de.das.dude (Nov 17, 2011)

i got an rma'd board with me now and my VRM has is on the verge of death again. asus service here is really pathetic. im going gigabyte or msi after this.


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## ChristTheGreat (Nov 17, 2011)

this must be bad luck, or bad batch of motherboard... I run mine for almost one month, 4,4ghz 1.256v at 100% CPU all day on BOINC.

This can happen, and it's sad  . If there were too much dead mobo, I think Asus would recall the board.

Like mjkmike said, I also saw about ram, that'S why I bought on newegg Kingston HyperX genesis Sandy bridge edition. I think also this could be a memory controller problem with 1.65v. Some people said they had 1.5v, but like I said, no body is protected from hardware failure. But I wish mine won't die haha.

Thanks for your feedback MaxAwesome



> A few factors that could have contributed to the death:
> 
> 
> "PLL OVERVOLTAGE" set to enabled.



I wasn't able to get over 45x, since new bios, enable this function, and I can get higher. But this can let you overvolt the PLL, but I don't think this could cause killing the motherboard.. that would be nice: THis function will kill your motherboard, please keep on disable.. that doesn't make sens I think..


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

ChristTheGreat said:


> I wasn't able to get over 45x, since new bios, enable this function, and I can get higher. But this can let you overvolt the PLL, but I don't think this could cause killing the motherboard.. that would be nice: THis function will kill your motherboard, please keep on disable.. that doesn't make sens I think..



I've had three CPUs degrade in a matter of minutes...with PLL overvoltage enabled, and 1.38v. Two different boards.


I always base my comments by my own personal experience. It's very odd that both CPU and board die, but it's also pretty common for Sandybridge for both to go at the same time, so while it may seem a bit off that there is no warning for this BIOS option, I do not feel it is needed for there to be a warning, as overclocking, period, can affect stability and lifespan of components.

CPUs are of varying quality. Some will handle certain votlages fine, while others will not. You always take a chance when overclocking, and everyone already knows this, so I don't see why it wouldn't make sense. To me, it's no different than X58 and running 1.65v ram, while needing to keep VTT within 0.5v of vDIMM. Not many boards tell you about this, but at this point, it's common knowledge.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Nov 17, 2011)

He also said all other voltages left "on AUTO" which is actually NOT safe when overclocking cause you don't know what it's doing with them. And the monitoring software often not very accurate even if you try to pay attention.


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## _JP_ (Nov 17, 2011)

I want to know more of this, because I was thinking of buying a P67 board. 


de.das.dude said:


> i got an rma'd board with me now and my VRM has is on the verge of death again. asus service here is really pathetic. im going gigabyte or msi after this.


Did you happen to notice that your board has a 4 phase VRM for the CPU with no heatsinks at all...I wouldn't say ASUS is bad...you're just going beyond what it can do and therefore the board is failing on you.


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## ChristTheGreat (Nov 17, 2011)

> I've had three CPUs degrade in a matter of minutes...with PLL overvoltage enabled, and 1.38v. Two different boards.



Please let me know how you know your CPU degraded.

Anyway I saw alot of people, when they reach max multiplier, beeing able to get more with Pll overvoltage enable..

I was able to boot at 46x but with 2001 bios, I need it enable..


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

ChristTheGreat said:


> Please let me know how you know your CPU degraded.
> 
> Anyway I saw alot of people, when they reach max multiplier, beeing able to get more with Pll overvoltage enable..
> 
> I was able to boot at 46x but with 2001 bios, I need it enable..



The CPUs all needed more voltage for the same clocks after 10 passes of LinPack "maximum memory" load with PLL Overvolt enabled.

And yes, PLL overvolt will enable extra multipliers, but really this is intended for those using extreme cooling methods, not for daily usage, in my opinion.

This option is not available on all boards, either.

My review hardware gets pounded, on purpose, as I do try to find the failing point so that I can report it to you guys, as well as the OEMs who products I review.


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## John Doe (Nov 17, 2011)

The first one went away because it was "Non-B3". On the second one, you probably had bad luck.

You really can Google any mobo with "dead" added next to it, and find applicable results to your situation. It has no backing at all. Also, that Nox PSU could make a potential failure point. I read up on those before (I think they were rebadged SuperFlower's {old}) but can't remember right now. If it's a crap unit, it might just shot the mobo down from bad VSB regulation.

Further, the EVO is based on the same PCB as the P67 Deluxe. So it's a solid board like the rest of Asus` Sandy offerings. It's always nice to have opinionated paranoia in a forum... in one way or another.


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

John Doe said:


> It's always nice to have opinionated paranoia in a forum... in one way or another.



Unless you work for one of these companies that got his dead hardware, and you've tested to confirm how the failure occurred, there's no way ANYONE can say what really happened here. Myself included.

What I can say, however, is that deaths of 1155 hardware in the same sort of manner is not something ASUS-specific. Gigabyte, MSI and others all have some reports of deaths like this.


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## Millennium (Nov 17, 2011)

I am curious if anyone else gives credence to running 1.65v memory causing this? Because I have been running it on my rig, on and off, due to problems with my lower voltage memory and sheer lazyness. Should I get that stuff out of my system pronto?

By the way cadaveca I have been running (as far as I know) PLL overvoltage and 1.4v ish @ 4.5 cause I have a crap CPU and I haven't noticed any degredation, but your experience worries me. I'll check my settings when I get home.


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## John Doe (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Unless you work for one of these companies that got his dead hardware, and you've tested to confirm how the failure occurred, there's no way ANYONE can say what really happened here. Myself included.



Re-read my post, he doesn't know why they exactly failed either.

Asus users don't have a "ticking bomb" in their hand and that's a fact. All this thread does is to panic people for no reason.


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

Millennium said:


> By the way cadaveca I have been running (as far as I know) PLL overvoltage and 1.4v ish @ 4.5 cause I have a crap CPU and I haven't noticed any degredation, but your experience worries me. I'll check my settings when I get home.



I am also running my current personal CPU with PLL overvoltage enabled as well. The CPU has degraded a bit, but then stopped. I really think just some CPUs can handle it, and some cannot, and when the CPU goes, it blows out to ground, and this kills the board at the same time.


It's also worth mentioning that improper cooler installation can cause death as well, if it happens to tweak the socket pins the wrong way. there's no way for any of us to know what happened in this particular situation, but based on my experience and reports on the internet, I feel confident that this problem is not an ASUS-only issue.

Of course, not many people realize that the PLL chip is also chip on the board itself, either. On the board in question, there is THIS chip, which supplies clocks to PCIe.:







The option in BIOS refers to an INTERNAL PLL on the CPU. Not many people know exactly what enavbling the option does, as the actaul PLL votlage does not change when this optoin is enabled. If it does adjust the PLL for PCIe, it might make sense that this was causing the issues.


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## de.das.dude (Nov 17, 2011)

_JP_ said:


> I want to know more of this, because I was thinking of buying a P67 board.
> 
> Did you happen to notice that your board has a 4 phase VRM for the CPU with no heatsinks at all...I wouldn't say ASUS is bad...you're just going beyond what it can do and therefore the board is failing on you.




dude. i used to do 3600 24*7 on my orignal, with this crap now i cant even OC 200mhz :/


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

de.das.dude said:


> dude. i used to do 3600 24*7 on my orignal, with this crap now i cant even OC 200mhz :/



When you don't have an 1155 rig, you comments do not directly relate to anything but your own rig. You run AMD, not Intel.


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## jsfitz54 (Nov 17, 2011)

@ cadaveca:  If you run stock only, will there be the kind of failures listed here?

I am waiting for a 2600k and asus p8p67 deluxe to be delivered from another TPU member.  I purchased 2x4gig 2133mhz gskill to match with system and it's 1.65v stock...is this a poor/bad match and should I stick with 1.5v memory exclusively?


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

Guys, first of all thanks for ALL the input.

But, I'd like you to know, that while I know I made the title of the thread a bit sensationalist, my goal is NOT to diss ASUS (as I have said twice in my OP, and I've been using and *trusting* ASUS for a long time now).

Besides, this is not only about the motherboards dying,* but also the fact that they take the CPU with them.*

A dying mobo is nothing to write home about. But when it starts taking CPUs with it, with a fairly significant number of cases, then I think it's worth at least documenting. 

And after long searches, this issue seems to happen "only" or mostly to ASUS P67 users. 

I want to try to help others who have gone through the same thing, because even today, I don't have a clue what happened.

My research only lead me to the only obvious common factor in always failures like mine: The ASUS mobo.

That's all guys. I don't want panic, I don't want mistrust on ASUS.

I've changed the title of the thread to something less alarming.


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

jsfitz54 said:


> @ cadaveca: If you run stock only, will there be the kind of failures listed here?



At stock, no, you should not have any issues at all, really. Of course, as always, I suggest that nothing is left to auto, whether overclocked or not.


Also, anything over 1333 MHz memory and 1.5v is overclocking. Sandybridge supports 1333 MHz max.

http://ark.intel.com/products/52214/Intel-Core-i7-2600K-Processor-(8M-Cache-3_40-GHz)

http://ark.intel.com/products/52210

I make the same recommendations to anyone...run stock, no PLL overvolt, and no more than 1333 MHz  1.5v ram. Anything more than that is taking chances. Not always a big chance, but as always, overclocking does have it's risks, and as silicon processes get smaller and smaller, they get more and more fragile. If you overclock, and something dies, I do not feel that you should RMA anything, too. Abusing the RMA system is not something I'll ever recommend, as it does make parts more expensive than they need to be.


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

Cadaveca, my previous Kingston 4GB Kits, were 1.65v kits, and while they were not declared "SB approved on the box", I did find them on the Kingston SB compatibility list, *but not on ASUS.*.

That's when I switched to G.Skill RJX 1.5v, with XMP.

is XMP a good thing or a bad thing? I have the impression that Intel recommends it? Not sure.

Because I really DO hope that what caused the death of my HW was my previous RAM. Even though I ran it at only 1.55v. But still, you never know.

At least this Ripjaws kit I have now is SB-approved, and made especially for it.


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## jsfitz54 (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> I make the same recommendations to anyone...run stock, no PLL overvolt, and no more than 1333 MHz 1.5v ram. Anything more than that is taking chances. Not always a big chance, but as always, overclocking does have it's risks, and as silicon processes get smaller and smaller, they get more and more fragile. If you overclock, and something dies, I do not feel that you should RMA anything, too. Abusing the RMA system is not something I'll ever recommend, as it does make parts more expensive than they need to be.



I respect your input but by the same token the Manufaturers sell, "enthusiast = made for overclocking" motherboards.

These types of "enthusiast" mobo's should fair better as they are promoted to used better base materials in the build, example: ASUS Sabertooth Tough Military Grade.

Too the same end, Intel and AMD pitch the same assertions.

Getting what you pay for is not unfair.



MaxAwesome said:


> is XMP a good thing or a bad thing



XMP was invented by Intel.


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

jsfitz54 said:


> XMP was invented by Intel.



Ok, thanks


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

The thing that sucks, is that now I'm very hesitant to touch anything in my BIOS.

I mean, I bought a pretty good high-end mobo, an unlocked CPU, only to be scared of doing what I've been doing for years: overclocking.

But anyway, I only opened this thread because it was apparent to me that pretty much all cases of boards dying while simultaneously killing CPUs were centered around ASUS' P67 mobos.


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

jsfitz54 said:


> XMP was invented by Intel.



Intel also says this about XMP(hidden at the bottom the XMP page)



> 1. Warning: Altering clock frequency and/or voltage may: (i) reduce system stability and useful life of the system, processor, and other system components; (ii) cause the processor and other system components to fail; (iii) cause reductions in system performance; (iv) cause additional heat or other damage; and (v) affect system data integrity. Intel has not tested, and does not warranty, the operation of the processor beyond its specifications. Intel has not tested, and does not warranty, the operation of other system components beyond their industry standard specifications. *Intel assumes no responsibility that the processor and other system components, including if used with altered clock frequencies and/or voltages, will be fit for any particular purpose.*



http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/gaming-computers/intel-extreme-memory-profile-xmp.html



MaxAwesome said:


> pretty much all cases of boards dying while simultaneously killing CPUs were centered around ASUS' P67 mobos.



I do not agree. MSI has just as many, and Gigabyte as well. There are only more reports of ASUS boards becuase they sell more product than anyone else.


Frankly, to me, it's nothing to do with the boards, per se...it's all about the CPU. Get a good one, you'll have no problems..but get a bad one, and it'll die, taking the board with it.



jsfitz54 said:


> I respect your input but by the same token the Manufaturers sell, "enthusiast = made for overclocking" motherboards.
> 
> These types of "enthusiast" mobo's should fair better as they are promoted to used better base materials in the build, example: ASUS Sabertooth Tough Military Grade.
> 
> ...



As mentioned above, I do not think the boards are at fault. I do not care what OEMs say..they say you can run 2133 MHz memory too, although Intel says this is not OK. There have been reports of Intel denying RMA due to XMP-enabled ram of certain types being used, for example.


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Intel also says this about XMP(hidden at the bottom the XMP page)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It could be true, that it might be the CPU dying and killing the mobo. But I don't know, this is my third 2600k and EVO in 11 months.

Did I get 2 bad ones in a row? Perhaps there's faulty batch out there? Unfortunately, I never checked the batch on my previous ones :/

Or maybe there's a batch of faulty ASUS mobos out there. I guess we'll never know.

I know CPUs are notoriously hard to kill, at least much harder than motherboards. If it was only the motherboard dying, I wouldn't worry at all.


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## jsfitz54 (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> As mentioned above, I do not think the boards are at fault. I do not care what OEMs say..they say you can run 2133 MHz memory too, although Intel says this is not OK. There have been reports of Intel denying RMA due to XMP-enabled ram of certain types being used, for example.



SO, if you run your system on manual using XMP as guideline, and enter the number's yourself, then technically XMP was not used and you are not voiding warranty?

Seems like a rather large loophole.


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

jsfitz54 said:


> SO, if you run your system on manual using XMP as guidline, and enter the number's yourself, then technically XMP was not used and you are not voiding warranty?



Why would using XMP void warranty? Isn't it Intel's own spec?

Actually confused right now. I know SB only officially supports 1333mhz RAM, but then... why is there even enthusiast grade hardware for sale?

Why isn't Intel coming out to RAM manufacturers and saying "Don't sell that, it will kill our products?"


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## jsfitz54 (Nov 17, 2011)

MaxAwesome said:


> Why would using XMP void warranty? Isn't it Intel's own spec?



I would think that Intel/XMP, sleeping in the same bed, would not void warranty.




MaxAwesome said:


> Actually confused right now.



So am I???


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

Exactly, my current kit of Ripjaws X comes with an XMP profile of 1.5v, 1600mhz, 9-9-9-24 - 2T.

If they say it's MADE for SB, they have to take responsibility for what they sell.


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## John Doe (Nov 17, 2011)

Nope, XMP doesn't void warranty. In fact, XMP stands for the pre-specified settings for memory. By using it, you make the recommended combination (say DDR2 800 on P35).

One more thing is 1.5v. It's a myth people made out of Intel's recommendation. 1.5v is just their recommendation, it's not the "safe limit". Using 1.65v on Sandy is no different than running a 1.35v chip at 1.45. There's nothing wrong with it.

If you ask to Ben from Patriot (over their forums), he's suggested 1.65v for Sandy on many occasions. He says it's absolutely fine.


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## jsfitz54 (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> they say you can run 2133 MHz memory too, although Intel says this is not OK



If "they" are Intel and Intel contradicts itself, how does a consumer have any trust in "their" assertions?


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

MaxAwesome said:


> Why would using XMP void warranty? Isn't it Intel's own spec?
> 
> Actually confused right now. I know SB only officially supports 1333mhz RAM, but then... why is there even enthusiast grade hardware for sale?
> 
> Why isn't Intel coming out to RAM manufacturers and saying "Don't sell that, it will kill our products?"



I know it's very confusing. That is why I am so adamant on my position when it comes to ram speeds, and BIOS options.


Board makers tell you 2133 MHz will work on Intel CPUs. Intel tells you if you run more than 1333 MHz, your warranty is void.

Memory makers tell you XMP profiles are for easy overclocking. Intel tells you XMP will void your warranty.

Board makers tell you you can overclock, and offer BIOS options to allow you to do so. Intel tells you overclocking your CPU voids your warranty. 


What it all means is that Board and memory makers are catering to enthusiasts, contrary to what both AMD and Intel recommend.


Yes, you CAN overclock, but when you do, you take some risks. you overclocked, took a risk, and it killed your parts. If i was running that store, I'd tell you that you were SOL, and need to buy new parts. You are very lucky that the store worked with you on that, TBH.



jsfitz54 said:


> If "they" are Intel and Intel contradicts itself, how does a consumer have any trust in "their" assertions?



That's a good question, and again, this is why I always asserty that people go by Intel or AMD recommendations, and not board or memory makers. I've been building PCs since the days when overclocking required a soldering iron. I've watched the industry change, and I personally do not fully approve of the direction it has gone, and I am very open about this.

I mean, I'm kinda stepping out here, as a reviewer. I say trust Intel and AMD, who actualyl make and design the silicon, rather than board OEMs.


Like the PLL overvolt thing...did you really need the extra 500 MHz that that option can provide? In my opinion, no.

What really funny is that is that if you ask any reviewer what PLL overvolt does...they won't have a real answer as to what exactly is overvolted.


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> I know it's very confusing. That is why I am so adamant on my position when it comes to ram speeds, and BIOS options.
> 
> 
> Board makers tell you 2133 MHz will work on Intel CPUs. Intel tells you if you run more than 1333 MHz, your warranty is void.
> ...



Well, both things were still under warranty.


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

MaxAwesome said:


> Well, both things were still under warranty.



No, actually, going by the legal perspective, they were not. You overclocked, you knowingly voided your warranty, ergo you should be SOL.


You may not like that response, but legally, that's how it is.

Yes, many times you can RMA stuff that was overclocked, and still get new parts back. The RMA process, from a business perspective, is very much broken, but it is broken in such a way as to provide consumer confidence only, IMHO. To me, this is a question of questionable business practices, and nothing else.


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

Then Intel and AMD shouldn't even sell unlocked CPUs.

That's like Ferrari refusing warranty because you went over 60mph or the speed limit.


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

Yes, you are right. Although, Ferrari designed the car to go that fast, and many cars have limiting technology that must be by-passed before the full potential of the car is unlocked, liek the Nissan GTR that only unlocks itself when the built-in GPS finds the car on a real racetrack. Similarily, boards used to need mods to unlock thier full potential, and I feel it's very foolhardy of board oems to not still require this sort of protection for daily consumers.

that said, your analogy is not the best, but I understand what you are saying, and yes, I agree with you.

I blame bad marketing.


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## jsfitz54 (Nov 17, 2011)

MaxAwesome said:


> That's like Ferrari refusing warranty because you went over 60mph



And Damit, the Maserati is in the shop!


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## EarthDog (Nov 17, 2011)

This is just plain bad luck. I have a P67 Evo and Pro nothing died... with way larger overclocks than that. I appreciate the warning, but its more of an overzealous alarmist post.

As far as PLL override... you hit a wall at a certain speed (varies by every chip) in which PLLo  gets you over that hump. So its not that it makes more multi's available as literally posted the multi's are available, you just cant boot to them without adding extra voltage. Ive seen PLLo needed as low as 44x and as high as 48-49x. It just depends on the chip. In that light, IMO, its not for extreme cooling as air can reach 44x+. But you will absolutely in fact need PLLo when using extreme cooling because of the clocks you can reach with better cooling.


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

So, Earthdog, can you tell me exactly what PLL overvolt does?  and I mean, literally, what voltage/current/OCP-limit is changed when this option is enabled?

When you can tell me what it does exactly, then I'll side with your end of this argument, potentially, provided you can detail the specifics of what that option does, rather than the outcome and what it enables.

Because that's all you have stated...the outcome/result...not really what it does.


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

I never used PLL OV 

My CPU Cooler is a puny Cooler Master TX3. That's why I used to run it at "only" 4.2ghz.

Which is nothing for a SB chip.


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

MaxAwesome said:


> Which is nothing for a SB chip.



Tell that to crazyeyesreaper here on the forum that can only get 4.3 GHz.


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Tell that to crazyeyesreaper here on the forum that can only get 4.3 GHz.



Ouch! 

I'd be pissed


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

Meh. Luck of the draw, and yes, he wasn't too happy about that.


I mean, I don't suggest that overclocknig is forgotten, but I do suggest that if you are going to overclock, that you do so fully informed of the potentials for failure, and understand the risks involved. This side of overclocking is not commonly talked about, but it is something I hope becomes more prevalent. you'll find nearly every OEM hypes the ability to overclock, and I personally think that that is not such a good idea. It was much better when you needed to physically mod stuff. I'd rather take something that requires skill, over convenience, although, soldering parts is not something I'm afraid of.

My favorite example of this is the Foxxconn BlackOPs X48 board. IT came with two variable resistors inside the box...but Foxconn would tell you, if you don't already know what those resistors are for, then you don't need them.


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

Anyway, why can't I change the title of the thread to something less dramatic?

I've changed it, but the title thread remains the same?


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## EarthDog (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> So, Earthdog, can you tell me exactly what PLL overvolt does?  and I mean, literally, what voltage/current/OCP-limit is changed when this option is enabled?
> 
> When you can tell me what it does exactly, then I'll side with your end of this argument, potentially, provided you can detail the specifics of what that option does, rather than the outcome and what it enables.
> 
> Because that's all you have stated...the outcome/result...not really what it does.


From what (little, I will be honest) I understand about Phase Lock Loop, its the frequency clock source signal. Its a signaling voltage (high and low states). When you increase this voltage it is easier to discern between the high and low voltage signals...... which gets u over that multi hump. 

Now with that said... Im trying to remember back to my PLLo limits.. did I get the flashing cursor or did it just not boot in to windows... GAH. 

EDIT: To answer the remaining part of your question, isnt it supply current and sustained current that it adjusts?


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

OK,but when you enable it, howcome the actual CPU_PLL voltage doesn't change? You can test this using your MSI boards, or any other board that has read points...CPU_PLL does not change when this voltage is enabled.

It could be current provided. however, i noticed long ago that most boards have PCIe PLL chip, and these chips have two voltage modes...I am jsut as lost as you are with this one.


I mean, I recommend people not use it, because I myself have no idea what it does, and I seem to have a higher-level undertstand of board components than the average user. And with that in mind, not knowing what something does, in any part of life, is dangerous, so I'd rather err on the side of caution.


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

I'd really like to change the thread's title lol

I now realize it's a bit... "apocalyptic". 

Should I contact erocker or something?


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## jsfitz54 (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> I mean, I don't suggest that overclcoknig is forgotten, but I do suggest that if you are going to overclock, that you do so fully informed of the potentials for failure, and understand the risks involved. This side of overclocking is not commonly talked about, but it is something I hope becomes more prevalent.



1500 Hours to hand polish a Ferrari crankshaft and failures should be far and few... It would seem that Motherboard makers need to step up their game.

If I blatantly abuse an overclock, I am happy to take responsibility.  "Auto", should equate to dummy proof Manufacture "approved", as should XMP. (And I have had not such good luck with XMP on x58 as it really jumps overvolt.)


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

MaxAwesome said:


> I'd really like to change the thread's title lol
> 
> I now realize it's a bit... "apocalyptic".
> 
> Should I contact erocker or something?



Yeah, you could. It would take an admin to fix the title, and erocker does have the ability to do so.


jsfitz54 said:


> 1500 Hours to hand polish a Ferrari crankshaft and failures should be far and few... It would seem that Motherboard makers need to step up their game.
> 
> If I blatantly abuse an overclock, I am happy to take responsibility.  "Auto", should equate to dummy proof Manufacture "approved", as should XMP. (And I have had not such good luck with XMP on x58 as it really jumps overvolt.)



Most "auto" settings are much higher than they need to be for most CPU's needed voltages on most boards.


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## EarthDog (Nov 17, 2011)

jsfitz54 said:


> 1500 Hours to hand polish a Ferrari crankshaft and failures should be far and few... It would seem that Motherboard makers need to step up their game.
> 
> If I blatantly abuse an overclock, I am happy to take responsibility.  "Auto", should equate to dummy proof Manufacture "approved", as should XMP. (And I have had not such good luck with XMP on x58 as it really jumps overvolt.)


Here is the thing on that analogy...

You are asking that ferrari(cpu) to run past its redline (stock speeds) when you overclock. Intel only goes up to what we call stock speeds. That is intel's limit (outside of turbo). So I dont care if the crank is handblown unobtanium. If its only good to the rev limiter (turbo), its only good to the rev limiter.

Auto settings favor stability but usually add voltage to compensate.



cadaveca said:


> OK,but when you enable it, howcome the actual CPU_PLL voltage doesn't change? You can test this using your MSI boards, or any other board that has read points...CPU_PLL does not change when this voltage is enabled.
> 
> It could be current provided. however, i noticed long ago that most boards have PCIe PLL chip, and these chips have two voltage modes...I am jsut as lost as you are with this one.
> 
> ...


First, I dont fault that advice at all. If you dont need it, dont use it. But if you want to run balls to the wall, you will need to flip that switch for stability eventually.

Your question is a good one I cannot answer with anything technical. I can GUESS that while its phase Lock Loop, its not the same as CPU PLL. As we both know the other PLL setting I just mentioned if changed will NOT allow you to get past that same hump so there is (obviously) some differences there. 

Im pretty confident it does adjust current level limits and that is why it allows overclocking higher. If it really has anything to do with multiplier availability (literally) then one would experience the flashing cursor instead of just not being able to boot in to windows/instability. As I mentioned, its been so long since I played in that area, I dont recall what happens so you could be correct.. anyone want to test?


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## jsfitz54 (Nov 17, 2011)

EarthDog said:


> You are asking that ferrari to run past its redline (stock speeds). So I dont care if the crank is handblown unobtanium. If its only good to the rev limiter, its only good to the rev limiter.



Well then they should lock all the cpu's by your analogy...where is the limiter?


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## EarthDog (Nov 17, 2011)

I edited that post above for a bit more clarity, FYI.


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## jsfitz54 (Nov 17, 2011)

EarthDog said:


> I edited that post above for a bit more clarity, FYI.



Yes, no disrespect.


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## Sasqui (Nov 17, 2011)

MaxAwesome said:


> I'd really like to change the thread's title lol
> 
> I now realize it's a bit... "apocalyptic".
> 
> Should I contact erocker or something?



I think you can "edit" and go to advanced where you can change the title...

What a frustrating thread to read, I feel like saying "sorry for your loss(es)"


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## arnoo1 (Nov 17, 2011)

You're not the only one with badluck
No p67 though but i wanted to share
I have also board just die on me, these are the chipsets:
p45(p5q-ws, crappy mem controller sometimes it would not start with 2 sticks ram, after 4months oc unstable, ran prime 95 for 6hours and intelburntest 30rounds)
N780i (could not oc at all and mem didn't go higher than 800mhz)
Amd boards shitty mem controller, unstable,don't know wich boards, always on stock shitty cpu, vrm went into flames , on start up

And this is the reason ehy i have a gigabyte mobo atm, some times it bsod'ed , have to search what the problem is


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

Sasqui said:


> I think you can "edit" and go to advanced where you can change the title...



Only for a limited time after the original post...might be only 5 minutes, even.


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## KieX (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> A few factors that could have contributed to the death:
> 
> 
> "PLL OVERVOLTAGE" set to enabled.
> ...



This pretty much sums up my experience. My first 2600K back in January died after a few days playing with all the new settings, pretty certain it was the VCCIO over 1.2v that did it (was a Gigabyte UD4).

Since then I've had 4 other 2600K all on Asus P8P67 and Pro motherboards (B2 and B3) with RAM 1.5v everything auto. With those settings I've been crunching 24/7 @ 4.5GHz (1.35v) without any more CPU deaths.

Think you may have gotten a little unlucky though


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## Neuromancer (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> OK,but when you enable it, howcome the actual CPU_PLL voltage doesn't change? You can test this using your MSI boards, or any other board that has read points...CPU_PLL does not change when this voltage is enabled.
> 
> It could be current provided. however, i noticed long ago that most boards have PCIe PLL chip, and these chips have two voltage modes...I am jsut as lost as you are with this one.
> 
> ...



The "Internal CPU PLL voltage adjustment" is not the same as what is labeled CPU PLL in voltage options in the BIOS. When Intel moved EVERYTHING on die, the cpu pll got moved too.

What is still called cpu pll votage under your BIOS options, refers to teh pll in the PCH. I am trying to get more detailed information for you. Having a little trouble finding the pinout for socket 1155.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Most "auto" settings are much higher than they need to be for most CPU's needed voltages on most boards.



Yep. And I wouldn't really trust what the BIOS/software tells you either, generally speaking.


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

Neuromancer said:


> The "Internal CPU PLL voltage adjustment" is not the same as what is labeled CPU PLL in voltage options in the BIOS. When Intel moved EVERYTHING on die, the cpu pll got moved too.
> 
> What is still called cpu pll votage under your BIOS options, refers to teh pll in the PCH. I am trying to get more detailed information for you. Having a little trouble finding the pinout for socket 1155.



I am very aware of the pinout of the socket, and I do probe every board I review with a multimeter to test voltages.

Unless and OEM directly tells you what it does, I think you'll not be offering me any new information.



Wrigleyvillain said:


> Yep. And I wouldn't really trust what the BIOS/software tells you either, generally speaking.



Again, this is why I use a multimeter.


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## PaulieG (Nov 17, 2011)

MaxAwesome said:


> I'd really like to change the thread's title lol
> 
> I now realize it's a bit... "apocalyptic".
> 
> Should I contact erocker or something?



I can change the title, if you want it done. Just PM with link and new title.


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## EarthDog (Nov 17, 2011)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> Yep. And I wouldn't really trust what the BIOS/software tells you either, generally speaking.


Agreed. But sometimes its all you have. Some dont own/wont buy a $20 DMM and/or there are no voltage read points (without looking for schematics and breaking out a soldering iron) on most midrange and lower boards.


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## MaxAwesome (Nov 17, 2011)

Paulieg said:


> I can change the title, if you want it done. Just PM with link and new title.



This one is fine 

Thanks, Paulieg


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## John Doe (Nov 17, 2011)

EarthDog said:


> Agreed. But sometimes its all you have. Some dont own/wont buy a $20 DMM and/or there are no voltage read points (without looking for schematics and breaking out a soldering iron) on most midrange and lower boards.



Notice the right top, easiest way to do it. I had goosenimples taking a pic on this one.


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## Neuromancer (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> I am very aware of the pinout of the socket, and I do probe every board I review with a multimeter to test voltages.
> 
> Unless and OEM directly tells you what it does, I think you'll not be offering me any new information.
> 
> ...



Just trying to help you out man.


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## EarthDog (Nov 17, 2011)

I understood what you were going for.. please continue if you would (you are welcome to PM me over at OCF if you would like). Im struggling to find technical information that is helpful outside of patent info which is WAY above my head.


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## cadaveca (Nov 17, 2011)

Neuromancer said:


> Just trying to help you out man.



I know, and I do appreciate the help. Unfortunately, I have done my own research into this, and I found nothing. So, like I said, if it doesn't come from a board OEM, I already know what's in the public domain.

Whitepapers with specifics can be found here:


Volume 1:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/2nd-gen-core-desktop-vol-1-datasheet.html

Volume 2:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/2nd-gen-core-desktop-vol-2-datasheet.html

As EarthDog posted, the only variable that makes sense is current limits. You can find this info in section 6/7 on Volume 1.

I was jsut stating that I have spent considerable time researching this, and given the limited info, I feel the only place this info can come from is the board makers, as it seems that it was them that added this feature, and not Intel, seemingly.


ASUS's take:



> * Intel PPL Overvoltage ( for increased K series overclocking set to enabled )
> 
> Overall in our ongoing internal tests the maximum frequency now achievable ( under LN2 ) is 5.8GHz. At this time we do not have a compiled database to reference improvements in the overall scaling range or new % of CPUs able to hit 50+ multis. With that noted currently we are seeing generally a minimum of 2 multi to as much as 7 multi increases with this value enabled on applicable D2 and retail parts.
> Example
> ...


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## EarthDog (Nov 17, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Notice the right top, easiest way to do it. I had goosenimples taking a pic on this one.


Right. You are showing a top of the line EVGA board with voltage read points (I think, top middle?), and a debug LED?


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## John Doe (Nov 17, 2011)

EarthDog said:


> Right. You are showing a top of the line EVGA board with voltage read points (I think, top middle?), and a debug LED?



Well yeah. lol. Just saying, it has onboard voltage read out so you can do it with an Analog multi by just making the sense touch.


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## EarthDog (Nov 17, 2011)

LOL.. gotcha.. yeah, DMM/AMM doesnt matter. Just saying that most boards do not have that so software for most people is all they have sadly. BUT most people dont need it.. Auto or not. the voltages are higher usually than if you tweaked manually but there were only a rare few boards in my experience that really worried you about what it set.


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## John Doe (Nov 17, 2011)

EarthDog said:


> LOL.. gotcha.. yeah, DMM/AMM doesnt matter. Just saying that most boards do not have that so software for most people is all they have sadly. BUT most people dont need it.. Auto or not. the voltages are higher usually than if you tweaked manually but there were only a rare few boards in my experience that really worried you about what it set.



Actually, it does matter. You should use Digital for this kind of application. Analog would have harder time getting down to the 3rd zero point. Analog multimeters are more suited for (example) testing a mechanical engine, where miniscule differences don't matter.

That said, yeah, volts aren't to be worried about at this time and date. Things are solid with mobos like these P67. That 780i I had blew though. It showed 1.20v when I put 1.35...


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## EarthDog (Nov 17, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> ASUS's take:


Thanks for that info Cad... now its just a semantics thing sadly. When you said the multi is unavailable, I took it as you cannot select it and successfully boot (meaning get to windows splash screen) with it. You CAN select it, just not get in to windows (but again able to use that multi). 

Those multi's are there/available (meaning no blinking cursor), but it just wont boot to windows without enabling it.

And its funny, Im glad I re-read that passage as I was in the process of getting my salt block (one large grain of salt ) to listen to those people at Asus as they intially asserted that only 10% of CPU's could hit 5Ghz in their how to overclock posts...glad they now think its more


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## Solaris17 (Nov 17, 2011)

OP if P67 failed twice on you why get a third board?


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## _JP_ (Nov 19, 2011)

3rd time's the charm?
:\


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## Daniele (Apr 30, 2015)

Hi, I had the SAME fact the first time CPU also went, the second time I bought a new ASUS P8P67 EVO from a US seller and this second one died after a couple of days without any reason. No overclock. PSU has been rejected by Intel as cause when they replaced my I7 processor...

Motherboard simply shut down as like a current power loss (but everything is fine) and then it wont turn on anylonger with any PSU or any other hardware.

In my second case it just happened that luckily my CPU was working on another mobo.

I will not buy asus anylonger after that. I think they put a chip on the motherboards which stops them just after 3 years old warranty passed or buggy them.


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