# Apt wired/wireless setup advice



## farlex85 (Feb 22, 2018)

So the apartment I'm in feeds internet into a central location and through a switch that then feeds it into multiple rooms in the place. One room is the living room where I have the most need for hardwired things, thus my wireless router is positioned there. But then I also have an office with a desktop that is as of now connected via the internet, thus bypassing my home network. Said desktop has a Plex server and I'd like to stream games from it to my living room TV (via SteamLink), so this setup isn't optimal. 

For ergonomic and positioning reasons I don't want to just put the router where the switch is, and if I move it to the office though I get everything on the network I have to use wireless for my TV, consoles, etc. So what I'd really like to do is get another {controller} that does the networking stuff prior to the switch and gets every room on the same wired network prior to even going wireless. I use ambiguity for {controller} there b/c we're now outside my comfortable realm of networking knowledge. I don't need it to be wireless, so is there a wired router that will do what I need here? Or do I need a wireless router in bridged mode? If so is there a small one anyone would recommend for this purpose? Or is there another config solution I'm not seeing?

Thanks for any help!


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## Kursah (Feb 26, 2018)

I would look at the Ubiquity EdgeRouterX, it is a small but capable little non-WiFi router that is more business-grade. There's also the USG options as well that utilize the UniFi GUI instead.

Adding another router means you'll be double-NAT-ing your network. And you might need to see if your apartment IT admin might be willing to put you on the DMZ or is willing to work with you on port forwarding requests should you run into issues. Though admittedly I've seen far fewer issues with multi-NAT setups these days compared to 5-10 years ago. But still something to be aware of.

So why don't you deploy a network switch in the living room location to feed your network? Get an 8 or 16 port or whatever you need plus a few extra ports to be safe?

Then you could move your router to the main run into your apartment, hook up to your router, and then from your router to the apartment switch. You can run multiple switches in-line to expand your network, and if there's no VLAN-ing or advanced configurations going on at that switch level you won't have any issues. I've seen some apartment complexes use VLAN's and some just use a dedicated port with subnet depending on the hardware deployment. So again it would help you to check with the IT tech for your apartment site. That way if you need to tag the WAN port on your router with a specific VLAN and static IP configuration you can do so...that also means you may need to bypass or reconfigure the primary switch for the apartment as well. If you can simply just replace it with another cheap switch then you'd be set and can just restore all the connections when you move out.

The way I see it is this for now:

APT ROUTER -> Your APT SWITCH -> All runs to your APT -> Office and Living Room Locations where your devices are

You want to do: APT ROUTER -> YOUR ROUTER -> APT Switch or your Switch -> Living Room Switch  + Old Wireless Router in AP mode and runs to the rest of the apartment

That would give you control. Now if you need WiFi where your current wireless router is, odds are you can set up that device to run in access point mode (provides WiFi only), and get another router to actually host your network. That way  your entire apartment is on the same LAN subnet (network address range). 

Without knowing a little more all I can do is speculate as to what you need to do. But I'm curious to see what you can find out moving forward so we can find a plan that works for you and your budget.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 26, 2018)

He can get another switch and move the router to another spot even


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## Sasqui (Feb 26, 2018)

The biggest thing you want to avoid is "double NAT-ing", where two or more routers are daisy chained.  You can run into bi-directional communication problems, at least from a WAN perspective.

I think the wired ports in most wireless routers are actually switches, meaning you don't need to put them in bridge mode to daisy chain another switch after them.  That's how my topology is setup from a cabling perspective:  ISP Modem (Cat6)-> ASUS Wireless Router (Cat6)-> Netgear Switch (Cat6)-> All hard-wired devices from Netgear switch


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 26, 2018)

Sasqui said:


> The biggest thing you want to avoid is "double NAT-ing", where two or more routers are daisy chained.  You can run into bi-directional communication problems, at least from a WAN perspective.
> 
> I think the wired ports in most wireless routers are actually switches, meaning you don't need to put them in bridge mode to daisy chain another switch after them.  That's how my topology is setup from a cabling perspective:  ISP Modem (Cat6)-> ASUS Wireless Router (Cat6)-> Netgear Switch (Cat6)-> All hard-wired devices from Netgear switch



Yeah you can set up a router via switch behind it, so switch to router, you can even have 2 wifi routers off of 1 another, only drawback is 2 different passwords, so its good to have all devices utilize both connections when 1 is out of range...


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## v12dock (Feb 26, 2018)

+1 Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X


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## Tom.699 (Feb 26, 2018)

Do I understand correctly that you have all rooms wired and connected to switch/router outside of apartment and managed by apartment/building owner?

Are you ok with being on the same network with other people connected to that switch?

If yes then switch your router to Access Point mode to connect wireless devices, use wired outlets wherever you need and you are done.

If not then I would contact whoever is responsible for that switch and check if it is possible to put your own router (wired only, mentioned Ubiquity EdgeRouterX would be good assuming it has enough ports for your needs) next to it and connect wires that go to your apartment to that router (wan port to existing switch). Then use Access Point only to connect wireless devices. Extra router would create separate subnet only for you.
This means double NAT though since that external switch is either a router itself or it is connected to one.


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## farlex85 (Feb 26, 2018)

> I would look at the Ubiquity EdgeRouterX, it is a small but capable little non-WiFi router that is more business-grade. There's also the USG options as well that utilize the UniFi GUI instead.
> 
> Adding another router means you'll be double-NAT-ing your network. And you might need to see if your apartment IT admin might be willing to put you on the DMZ or is willing to work with you on port forwarding requests should you run into issues. Though admittedly I've seen far fewer issues with multi-NAT setups these days compared to 5-10 years ago. But still something to be aware of.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed suggestions! A couple more details here as relevant to what's suggested here:

- So the router I currently have was furnished by the ISP, and unfortunately is lacking in even basic features (such as AP mode). 

- The area where the feed and main switch are is a bit awkward for the current or another router, both in ergonomics and wifi distribution (it's in a closet wall cutout). I could potentially finagle getting the current router in there, but not without some likely concessions. 

- For the switch, is there a way I could check whether they're using VLAN or advanced config myself? The support from the ISP is fairly poor, so I try to do these things without them if possible. I haven't tried too hard to dial into the switch, maybe I can look more into that. 

If I got the edgerouter out front and had to do multi-NAT since I can't do AP mode on the wiFi router (so it'd be EdgeRouter -> ISP Switch -> WiFi Router), what sort of issues would I be on the lookout for and would there be potential was to mitigate it?



> Do I understand correctly that you have all rooms wired and connected to switch/router outside of apartment and managed by apartment/building owner?



The switch is inside the apartment, and is managed by the ISP (but I can access it).


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## silkstone (Feb 26, 2018)

This is your current set up?

Apt Router >> ISP Switch (to multiple rooms) >>> Main living room router ?

If so then you are already double NAT'ed. You'd want a router put in place of the ISP switch in order to get everything onto the same network. You then just get everything hooked up through the switches and let the router do the routing. If you are already running a Plex server through the ISP switch, then it sounds like the APT router has it's firewall disabled.

You could add another switch after the living room router, but it'd mean running secondary wires to the other rooms.


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## Kursah (Feb 27, 2018)

farlex85 said:


> Thanks for the detailed suggestions! A couple more details here as relevant to what's suggested here:
> 
> - So the router I currently have was furnished by the ISP, and unfortunately is lacking in even basic features (such as AP mode).
> 
> ...


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## farlex85 (Feb 27, 2018)

silkstone said:


> This is your current set up?
> 
> Apt Router >> ISP Switch (to multiple rooms) >>> Main living room router ?
> 
> ...



There is no Apt router that I'm aware of. It's just the switch to the living room router. 



Kursah said:


> *> Could you put up a small shelf in that location instead?*



I suppose I could, would be a bit messy though and probably sub-optimal. Thanks for the specific recommendations and explanations, I'll think around replacing the router w/ basically the 2 devices you mentioned (EdgeRouter up front and UniFi as the AP).


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## taz420nj (Mar 1, 2018)

Ok I might be seeing your setup differently than everyone else is, but what you're saying isn't making sense to me.  What kind of internet connection is this?  Fiber?  DSL? Cable?   Does your landlord provide the internet or do you have your own account with the ISP?  In this closet, you just have one CAT5 to each room (for example 4 rooms/4 cables)? Or is there an extra CAT5 as well (4 rooms/5 cables)?  Aside from your router and this switch, is there any other modem  or router in your apartment?How big is this apartment building? Are we talking about like a multi-family divided house/duplex/quadplex?  Or like a 15-20 unit building?  Or like a high rise?


The way you are describing it, it sounds like the landlord is providing the internet from a main shared connection to the building.  This means there is already a router somewhere else in the building, and that the switch in the closet is splitting a port on that router to the rooms in your apartment. Without knowing what is upstream of that switch, it's difficult to know how things are configured.  This office PC (the one you want to Plex with)..  This is already outside "your" network..  What is its IP?  If it is 192.168.x.x, 10.x.x.x, or 172.16.x.x thru 172.31.x.x, then you will most likely have a double-NAT problem no matter what you do - since the main building router is already doing NAT and DHCP.

Hopefully this is a professionally installed and managed network that is isolating each apartment's feeds from one another.  If not, then there is pretty much no chance of doing this right, since it was probably installed by the landlord's kid who has no clue what he's doing.  So anyway, assuming the network is managed by the ISP, it might be possible to have them configure your port to give you a public IP.  Then you must install your router in that closet to be the first device, and then feed it out to all of your rooms. From there, you can install a switch anywhere you need additional ports.  You can also install your standalone AP in any of the rooms.

If it isn't possible to get a public IP on your incoming line, then unfortunately you are left with two unattractive choices..  Remove your router completely and just use switches and a standalone AP (and have your privacy and security fall at the mercy of the building's router), or put your router in the closet as the "first" device, and live with the problems associated with double NAT.  Unfortunately Plex isn't very forgiving of double NAT, and without access to the main router to configure port forwarding, it's never going to work right.


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## silkstone (Mar 1, 2018)

taz420nj said:


> Ok I might be seeing your setup differently than everyone else is, but what you're saying isn't making sense to me.  What kind of internet connection is this?  Fiber?  DSL? Cable?   Does your landlord provide the internet or do you have your own account with the ISP?  In this closet, you just have one CAT5 to each room (for example 4 rooms/4 cables)? Or is there an extra CAT5 as well (4 rooms/5 cables)?  Aside from your router and this switch, is there any other modem  or router in your apartment?How big is this apartment building? Are we talking about like a multi-family divided house/duplex/quadplex?  Or like a 15-20 unit building?  Or like a high rise?
> 
> 
> The way you are describing it, it sounds like the landlord is providing the internet from a main shared connection to the building.  This means there is already a router somewhere else in the building, and that the switch in the closet is splitting a port on that router to the rooms in your apartment. Without knowing what is upstream of that switch, it's difficult to know how things are configured.  This office PC (the one you want to Plex with)..  This is already outside "your" network..  What is its IP?  If it is 192.168.x.x, 10.x.x.x, or 172.16.x.x thru 172.31.x.x, then you will most likely have a double-NAT problem no matter what you do - since the main building router is already doing NAT and DHCP.
> ...



That's exactly how I was picturing it, but I am confused. I don't see how/why an ISP feed would go straight into a switch. Most ISPs deliver on fiber now anyway, so it has to feed into a router.

Plex works fine if the main router sets the second router in its DMZ.


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## taz420nj (Mar 2, 2018)

silkstone said:


> That's exactly how I was picturing it, but I am confused. I don't see how/why an ISP feed would go straight into a switch. Most ISPs deliver on fiber now anyway, so it has to feed into a router.



It's a piss poor practice but it can be done.. For example our fiber ISP uses PPPoE. The fiber goes to the ONT on the side of the house, and from there you get an ethernet connection.  No router is needed as long as the computers have DUN set up.  I wouldn't do that if you paid me, but I've seen people that do.  I'm thinking the OP's scenario is more along the lines of a single broadband connection shared by a single router, probably VLAN'd for each apartment.



> Plex works fine if the main router sets the second router in its DMZ.



And that's the potential problem..  It's not very likely to be able to be done that way unless the landlord/building manager is an IT guy.  And I never had luck getting it to work with double NAT at my new place, even using DMZ.   See my apartment building is newer, but still predates the ISP's fiber rollout. We don't have any hardwired jacks (I installed my own), we have CAT5e to each unit but it's for the phone line.  So what the ISP did was install fiber to the building, and then installed a DSLAM (basically a small version of a DSL head end that would be at the phone company's switching station) on the building. We then get a VDSL2 modem that plugs into the phone jack.  Since it's only a hundred or so cable feet from the DSLAM, and it's VDSL2, we get really good speeds (I get every bit of the 50/10 service I pay for).  From the modem it goes to my pfSense box, and then to a switch, and then to the rooms. Even putting my Firebox in the DSL modem's DMZ, Plex would always register as "Not Accessible".  I had to call the ISP and have them put the modem into bridge mode so it would give the Firebox a public IP in order for Plex and my inbound VPN to be accessible from outside.


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## silkstone (Mar 2, 2018)

taz420nj said:


> It's a piss poor practice but it can be done.. For example our fiber ISP uses PPPoE. The fiber goes to the ONT on the side of the house, and from there you get an ethernet connection.  No router is needed as long as the computers have DUN set up.  I wouldn't do that if you paid me, but I've seen people that do.  I'm thinking the OP's scenario is more along the lines of a single broadband connection shared by a single router, probably VLAN'd for each apartment.
> 
> 
> 
> And that's the potential problem..  It's not very likely to be able to be done that way unless the landlord/building manager is an IT guy.  And I never had luck getting it to work with double NAT at my new place, even using DMZ.   See my apartment building is newer, but still predates the ISP's fiber rollout. We don't have any hardwired jacks (I installed my own), we have CAT5e to each unit but it's for the phone line.  So what the ISP did was install fiber to the building, and then installed a DSLAM (basically a small version of a DSL head end that would be at the phone company's switching station) on the building. We then get a VDSL2 modem that plugs into the phone jack.  Since it's only a hundred or so cable feet from the DSLAM, and it's VDSL2, we get really good speeds (I get every bit of the 50/10 service I pay for).  From the modem it goes to my pfSense box, and then to a switch, and then to the rooms. Even putting my Firebox in the DSL modem's DMZ, Plex would always register as "Not Accessible".  I had to call the ISP and have them put the modem into bridge mode so it would give the Firebox a public IP in order for Plex and my inbound VPN to be accessible from outside.



Very odd in theory, you should be able to forward every port right to your router. 

I can't put mine in bridge mode either, hence the double NAT, but port forwarding works fine. My ISP modem gives my main router an IP address base on its own subnet (192.168.0.x) then my main router completely ignores that and runs on its own subnet (192.168.3.x). 

The ISP router will forward everything to the 192.168.0.x address of the main router fine, but can't see the 192.168.3.x subnet (as expected)


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## farlex85 (Mar 2, 2018)

taz420nj said:


> Ok I might be seeing your setup differently than everyone else is, but what you're saying isn't making sense to me.  What kind of internet connection is this?  Fiber?  DSL? Cable?   Does your landlord provide the internet or do you have your own account with the ISP?  In this closet, you just have one CAT5 to each room (for example 4 rooms/4 cables)? Or is there an extra CAT5 as well (4 rooms/5 cables)?  Aside from your router and this switch, is there any other modem  or router in your apartment?How big is this apartment building? Are we talking about like a multi-family divided house/duplex/quadplex?  Or like a 15-20 unit building?  Or like a high rise?
> 
> 
> The way you are describing it, it sounds like the landlord is providing the internet from a main shared connection to the building.  This means there is already a router somewhere else in the building, and that the switch in the closet is splitting a port on that router to the rooms in your apartment. Without knowing what is upstream of that switch, it's difficult to know how things are configured.  This office PC (the one you want to Plex with)..  This is already outside "your" network..  What is its IP?  If it is 192.168.x.x, 10.x.x.x, or 172.16.x.x thru 172.31.x.x, then you will most likely have a double-NAT problem no matter what you do - since the main building router is already doing NAT and DHCP.
> ...



This is fiber. Apt complex does have a deal w/ the ISP such that a default plan is packaged into my rent, however this is as I understand it mostly billing in nature. In the closet there are indeed many more CAT5 cables than rooms (almost double really), a single line leading in. I think however this is maybe because most rooms are double-jacked, one jack for internet and the other to deliver tv (which also comes over ethernet). The apt is several hundred units.

Also the office computer is a public IP, not a local one (meaning when i check the ipconfig it's ip4 address is a public IP). Also I should clarify the Plex works b/c it is publicly visible (just obviously not as well as it could if it was local). I don't know how the ISP has things configured, but I don't think it's routing apartments on a single network. This is further supported by the fact that I can request a public static IP from them, as well as increased speeds (by default comes w/ standard speeds, but can go up to 1Gbps which I would pay to the ISP directly). Whatever the configuration, it is managed by the ISP not the complex. I can try and investigate with them more about how they have things setup.

So I think putting a router up front should give me what I need, the main complication comes from:

A) Messing w/ the enterprise settings that come on non-wireless routers from what I've seen.
B) Double-NAT'ing and/or getting a new wireless router/AP capable of just taking the connection and broadcasting it.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 2, 2018)

silkstone said:


> That's exactly how I was picturing it, but I am confused. I don't see how/why an ISP feed would go straight into a switch. Most ISPs deliver on fiber now anyway, so it has to feed into a router.
> 
> Plex works fine if the main router sets the second router in its DMZ.



Having worked with apartment complexes before, my guess is they have a single internet connection coming into the building that they pay for.  Say something like a 100mbps cable connection, or maybe fiber, or hell I've even see DSL and slow shit, it doesn't really matter and I've seen it all.  Then they have their own router connected to that internet connection that provides NAT and DHCP to the rest of the building and usually a couple big 24-port switches or however many they need to cover the building, and then a single wire run from the switches to each apartment to provide an internet connection to each apartment.  Some stop there and only provide a single "internet" jack, but it is really a LAN connection to the apartments LAN.  It sounds like in the OP's situation, the apartment went one step further and wired each apartment with multiple LAN jacks all wired back to a single switch in a closet in the apartment. 

The genius of doing this is they can say they are providing internet to their residents, a lot of places even charge an extra fee or add the cost to the rent.  A business cable connection costs maybe $150 a month, and they'll add $10-15 a month to the rent to let you use it, which most people will be happy to pay because it is a lot less than paying for their own internet connection.  If the complex has 20 apartments, they're be bringing in $200-300 a month charging for the internet.  They actually make a profit doing it this way!

There are issues with this, like the fact that you are behind a NAT that you can't control.  You can't open ports or anything. But for 99% of users, that doesn't matter.  They just care that they can load youtube and watch cat videos and post pictures of their food on snapchat.  If a user does want more control, or the option to say open ports, the apartment complex just tells them NO and if they want more control, they can buy their own internet connection.  And heck, now a days, game consoles will work just fine without opening any ports or doing anything special. They'll even work when double NATed now(back in my day they didn't).

A lot of times, the router they provide is only provided so that each person can have their own wireless in their apartment.  It's usually shitty, and the wifi is barely powerful enough to cover the entire apartment.  Add in the interference of 20+ wifi networks in the same building, and the signal might not make it out of the room the router is in...

So, if this is the case, and the OP isn't worried about the need to open ports(plex doesn't need ports opened if you are just using it on the same LAN), then this is what I'd do.

Current setup as I understand it:





This is how I would reconfigure it:




The new router I would use is something like this: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833704130

It is inexpensive, yet offers a lot of good business grade options.  It is also small, barely bigger than a normal 5-port switch.  So it should fit in the closet cut out with the other switch.

For the new switch in the livingroom to replace the router, any 5-port gigabit switch will work.  Like this one: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833156250

Finally, for the wireless access point, I recommend a Ubiquiti access point, but you can go with anything really.  This Ubiquiti AP is good: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=0ED-0005-000V6

Also, you can plug the AP into the TP-Link Router, the closet switch, or the new 5-Port switch, it doesn't matter.  I just show it connected to the new 5-port switch because that was the easiest place to add it in the diagram.

With the new setup you will still be double NATed, but like I said, that shouldn't be a problem. You won't be able to access Plex from outside of your apartment, but all the devices in your apartment should be able to access the Plex running on your office computer.  This also has the added benefit of shielding all your computers from all the other people in the apartment complex.


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## farlex85 (Mar 2, 2018)

newtekie1 said:


> Having worked with apartment complexes before, my guess is they have a single internet connection coming into the building that they pay for.  Say something like a 100mbps cable connection, or maybe fiber, or hell I've even see DSL and slow shit, it doesn't really matter and I've seen it all.  Then they have their own router connected to that internet connection that provides NAT and DHCP to the rest of the building and usually a couple big 24-port switches or however many they need to cover the building, and then a single wire run from the switches to each apartment to provide an internet connection to each apartment.  Some stop there and only provide a single "internet" jack, but it is really a LAN connection to the apartments LAN.  It sounds like in the OP's situation, the apartment went one step further and wired each apartment with multiple LAN jacks all wired back to a single switch in a closet in the apartment.
> 
> The genius of doing this is they can say they are providing internet to their residents, a lot of places even charge an extra fee or add the cost to the rent.  A business cable connection costs maybe $150 a month, and they'll add $10-15 a month to the rent to let you use it, which most people will be happy to pay because it is a lot less than paying for their own internet connection.  If the complex has 20 apartments, they're be bringing in $200-300 a month charging for the internet.  They actually make a profit doing it this way!
> 
> ...



I'm not so sure this is the case for me, since as noted in the previous comment my office computer shows a public IP address and my Plex is indeed publicly accessible (which is how it's working at all at the moment). Then again they still could be doing something like what you describe, since it is packaged in with the rent (default speeds at least, you can upgrade to up to 1gbps and various TV packages and pay the ISP directly for the difference), difficult to say for sure. I think the assumption for now though is that I am not currently double NAT'd (since my office computer is on a public IP). 

Your diagrams are accurate and thanks for the product suggestions! In any case it seems like a good idea to get something in front of the switch.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 2, 2018)

farlex85 said:


> I'm not so sure this is the case for me, since as noted in the previous comment my office computer shows a public IP address and my Plex is indeed publicly accessible (which is how it's working at all at the moment). Then again they still could be doing something like what you describe, since it is packaged in with the rent (default speeds at least, you can upgrade to up to 1gbps and various TV packages and pay the ISP directly for the difference), difficult to say for sure. I think the assumption for now though is that I am not currently double NAT'd (since my office computer is on a public IP).
> 
> Your diagrams are accurate and thanks for the product suggestions! In any case it seems like a good idea to get something in front of the switch.



In that case the only real change would be you wouldn't be double NATed and if you needed to you can open any ports you want on the router you buy, but I wouldn't change anything else about my suggestion.


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## taz420nj (Mar 3, 2018)

@newtekie1 @farlex85 Yeah the building is larger than I was anticipating (hundreds of units), and he mentioned being able to purchase higher speeds directly from the ISP, so most likely the ISP has a couple racks of their own equipment in the basement, and there is a direct non-NATed feed into each unit.  So yeah all he needs to do is install a router in place of the switch, plug in an AP or two, and he's golden.


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## silkstone (Mar 3, 2018)

newtekie1 said:


> Having worked with apartment complexes before, my guess is they have a single internet connection coming into the building that they pay for.  Say something like a 100mbps cable connection, or maybe fiber, or hell I've even see DSL and slow shit, it doesn't really matter and I've seen it all.  Then they have their own router connected to that internet connection that provides NAT and DHCP to the rest of the building and usually a couple big 24-port switches or however many they need to cover the building, and then a single wire run from the switches to each apartment to provide an internet connection to each apartment.  Some stop there and only provide a single "internet" jack, but it is really a LAN connection to the apartments LAN.  It sounds like in the OP's situation, the apartment went one step further and wired each apartment with multiple LAN jacks all wired back to a single switch in a closet in the apartment.
> 
> The genius of doing this is they can say they are providing internet to their residents, a lot of places even charge an extra fee or add the cost to the rent.  A business cable connection costs maybe $150 a month, and they'll add $10-15 a month to the rent to let you use it, which most people will be happy to pay because it is a lot less than paying for their own internet connection.  If the complex has 20 apartments, they're be bringing in $200-300 a month charging for the internet.  They actually make a profit doing it this way!
> 
> ...



He could get rid of the closet switch altogether. Just hook a router up in there and have a second router or a switch in the living room.

It sounds like his ISP have something set up in the basement. At my apartment building, the 3 ISPs we have run a bunch of switches and pipe fiber around the building. They likely do the same at his, but over cat5e.

However, if it's a managed switch in the closet it's be best to put the router *after* the switch and put the network cables for each room into the router.

Either way, he needs a router in the closet, then an AP in the living room.

It is definitely a good idea to put a router in between the ISP and the computers to get decent firewall protection.  I'd recommend a R6700 or similar offering from ASUS which can be had for ~$60. The ISP should be able to give advice on how to set it all up, if unsure.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 3, 2018)

silkstone said:


> He could get rid of the closet switch altogether. Just hook a router up in there and have a second router or a switch in the living room.



Possibly, depending on the number of ports he needs connected in the closet. If it is 4 or less, then just the router would be sufficient.


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## taz420nj (Mar 3, 2018)

silkstone said:


> He could get rid of the closet switch altogether. Just hook a router up in there and have a second router or a switch in the living room.
> 
> It sounds like his ISP have something set up in the basement. At my apartment building, the 3 ISPs we have run a bunch of switches and pipe fiber around the building. They likely do the same at his, but over cat5e.
> 
> ...


It wouldn't be a managed switch in the apartment. IMO based on what he said, the switch that's there is most likely there for the IPTV system (explains why they have the incoming cable going right into a switch, and is able to grab public IPs), and the "extra" cables were previously plugged into a router that the previous tenant removed when they moved out.  Our ISP also has IPTV and that's how they distribute it - They run one cable from an unused port on the ONT to a dumb switch, and then out to the STBs.  My view is to leave that existing setup alone and connect the router to the loose set of cables.  You'd have to identify the second incoming line and connect that to the router's WAN port, and the room lines to the LAN ports.


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## SamirD (Mar 9, 2018)

farlex85 said:


> This is fiber. Apt complex does have a deal w/ the ISP such that a default plan is packaged into my rent, however this is as I understand it mostly billing in nature. In the closet there are indeed many more CAT5 cables than rooms (almost double really), a single line leading in. I think however this is maybe because most rooms are double-jacked, one jack for internet and the other to deliver tv (which also comes over ethernet). The apt is several hundred units.
> 
> Also the office computer is a public IP, not a local one (meaning when i check the ipconfig it's ip4 address is a public IP). Also I should clarify the Plex works b/c it is publicly visible (just obviously not as well as it could if it was local). I don't know how the ISP has things configured, but I don't think it's routing apartments on a single network. This is further supported by the fact that I can request a public static IP from them, as well as increased speeds (by default comes w/ standard speeds, but can go up to 1Gbps which I would pay to the ISP directly). Whatever the configuration, it is managed by the ISP not the complex. I can try and investigate with them more about how they have things setup.
> 
> ...


I have actually dealt with this EXACT same configuration before at our previous apartment.  By chance is the ISP Access Media 3?

So here's the deal folks--he's literally getting a straight cat5 straight to the Internet that gives him a real public IP.  Imagine the line coming out of a cable modem--that's basically what he has.  The apartment complex provides the switch because each of the rooms are hardwired, and there's a second jack that's used for television (that may or may not be going over IP depending on how it is set up--is it Directv?).

So basically any device can be connected directly to the Internet via the wall jacks in each room--maybe not an issue for some devices, but obviously not the best for the computer and the television as they need to be on the same network (as well as behind a firewall).

Because our service bandwidth was well under 100, and I had a similar configuration requirement (IPsec VPN router), here's what I did.

I connected the Internet directly to the port that runs to my office.  There, I connected that to my router.  Most of my devices were in the office so this made sense.  But to also have wired connections in the rest of the rooms, I put a powerline adapter in the wiring closet as well as my office.  I connected this to the lan port on my router in the office and the other end to the switch in the wiring closet.  Now, everyone still could connect to the router and to the Internet.

In your case, there's several different ways to do it depending on what you're trying to optimize--wireless, wired, locations, etc.  Here's one approach that I like.

First, if you have multiple lines in the living room that connect back to the wiring closet, this will be a cinch.  Simply wire the Internet directly to the line going to your router.  Then connect the LAN from your router back to the wiring closet and into the switch.  Now, anything connected in your apartment will be on your router.  And your wireless remains in the living room and your desktop still has wired access like before.

If you don't have multiple lines in the living room, then you have a few choices--you can put your router ap into the wiring closet, which will give you tradeoff in wireless signal.  Then remove the switch from the wiring closet and move it to the living room where your router was to feed your wired devices.  Connect everything that was in the switch to your router.  Your desktop in the office will connect just how it does and will be on the same network.  Drawback to this will be the wireless speed.  Advantage is that is uses equipment you already have.

The other way to do it is to use either powerline or a moca adapter to get another ethernet run back to the wiring closet from the living room.  Then you can use the first setup above except that the lan or wan (whichever is slower) should be connected to the adapter since it won't be full gigabit speeds.  Disadvantage here is that if you have 100Mbps+ Internet, you may lose some speed, or you can keep your Internet speeds, but then your desktop to tv speeds will be limited to the speed of the powerline/moca adapter (which may not really matter if it's moca 2.0).

Hope this helps and feel free to ask any questions.


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## taz420nj (Mar 10, 2018)

SamirD said:


> I have actually dealt with this EXACT same configuration before at our previous apartment.  By chance is the ISP Access Media 3?
> 
> So here's the deal folks--he's literally getting a straight cat5 straight to the Internet that gives him a real public IP.  Imagine the line coming out of a cable modem--that's basically what he has.  The apartment complex provides the switch because each of the rooms are hardwired, and there's a second jack that's used for television (that may or may not be going over IP depending on how it is set up--is it Directv?).
> 
> ...



According to what he said, there are two runs from the closet to each room. One run from each room is connected to the switch, along with one incoming (he never specified, but I would bet there are two incoming).  He has said that the ISP offers an IPTV service, so my thinking is that the ports connected to the switch are intended for that.  My ISP also offers this and the STBs grab IPv6 public IPs. They do not get cross-connected to the LAN in any way, because any connectivity for things like cloud DVR and "TV Anywhere" are handled by their servers and apps on your tablets, phones, computers, etc.  There would then be a second set of cables for each room and a second incoming at the closet, and this is where the router would be connected.  Then all of the "second" ports in all the rooms will be on the LAN. Keep it simple..


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## SamirD (Mar 10, 2018)

taz420nj said:


> According to what he said, there are two runs from the closet to each room. One run from each room is connected to the switch, along with one incoming (he never specified, but I would bet there are two incoming).  He has said that the ISP offers an IPTV service, so my thinking is that the ports connected to the switch are intended for that.  My ISP also offers this and the STBs grab IPv6 public IPs. They do not get cross-connected to the LAN in any way, because any connectivity for things like cloud DVR and "TV Anywhere" are handled by their servers and apps on your tablets, phones, computers, etc.  There would then be a second set of cables for each room and a second incoming at the closet, and this is where the router would be connected.  Then all of the "second" ports in all the rooms will be on the LAN. Keep it simple..


It really doesn't matter what the runs to each room are for as long as they terminate in the wiring closet.  Then, depending on which source you feed them, that's what will be in the room.

However, I did forget about the possiblity of IPTV being distributed via the switch vs Internet.  But something tells me his system doesn't care and both can be on the same physical ethernet network (if he's even using it, which it doesn't sound like he is).

Putting the router in the closet will hurt wireless connectivity and removes the capability for more than one hardwired device in the living room.  I don't think that's the solution the OP is going for.


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## taz420nj (Mar 10, 2018)

SamirD said:


> It really doesn't matter what the runs to each room are for as long as they terminate in the wiring closet.  Then, depending on which source you feed them, that's what will be in the room.
> 
> However, I did forget about the possiblity of IPTV being distributed via the switch vs Internet.  But something tells me his system doesn't care and both can be on the same physical ethernet network (if he's even using it, which it doesn't sound like he is).
> 
> Putting the router in the closet will hurt wireless connectivity and removes the capability for more than one hardwired device in the living room.  I don't think that's the solution the OP is going for.



Who said anything about the AP(s) being in the closet?  Just the router needs to be there.   And why couldn't there be a cheap switch in the living room (or any room that has more than one device)?  I'm just saying for simplicity, it should be set up the way I suggested.  Makes things a whole lot easier down the road when the gremlins show up.


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## SamirD (Mar 10, 2018)

taz420nj said:


> Who said anything about the AP(s) being in the closet?  Just the router needs to be there.   And why couldn't there be a cheap switch in the living room (or any room that has more than one device)?  I'm just saying for simplicity, it should be set up the way I suggested.  Makes things a whole lot easier down the road when the gremlins show up.


If it's a separate router/ap, that's ideal.  But most routers have the ap built-in.

The problem I see with your solution is cost.  Why spend when you can do it with what you already have?  And if you know your network, you know what the issue could be if one comes up.


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