# AMD Ryzen 9 3950X - vcore and thermal



## csendesmark (Nov 18, 2019)

Hello All

Today I upgraded my Ryzen 7 2700 with a Ryzen 9 3950X - _good news!_
My Motherboard is an ASUS PRIME X470-PRO (_BIOS Version 5220 - the latest available_)

Everything is fine but,
Why is the vcore get's up to *1.47V* when I am not overclocking (not really planning to) but precision boost is on Auto (_guessing it's means enabled_)
And the core hits 56°C watching Youtube and 47°C with ~no load, I run a stress test with CPU-z and got it to 89°C when the fan were blowing 100% @ 4GHz
So the CPU has contact with my cooler: Thermalright ARO-M14O rated up to 240W

On my second look, even if all the regular utilities saying I have 1,4~ V 
AMD Ryzen Master is stating voltages between 0,9~1,24

Can you please help me with this one?
Should I disable precision boost or this is normal _/safe_? 
Maybe set the vcore manually to a safe value?

3900X owners might help me on this!

CPU-z validation:
https://valid.x86.fr/w1r7j9

*Thank You!*


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## moproblems99 (Nov 18, 2019)

It's normal.  All of the 3000 series seem to do it.

Edit:. I have pbo disabled right now and still have jumps to 1.5v at idle.


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## csendesmark (Nov 18, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> It's normal.  All of the 3000 series seem to do it.
> 
> Edit:. I have pbo disabled right now and still have jumps to 1.5v at idle.



And what about the thermals?
I know the 2700 was only a 65W TDP CPU, but this one quickly hitting 90°C and it making me nervous, 
Isn't it killing the hardware on the long run?


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 18, 2019)

Normal behavior for Ryzen 3000. 

On the temps your cooler may just not be good enough AMD recommends a 280mm AIO.


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## csendesmark (Nov 18, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Normal behavior for Ryzen 3000.
> 
> On the temps your cooler may just not be good enough AMD recommends a 280mm AIO.


I heard that,
But the 3900X should need the same then, I mean, the difference isn't big.
Or actually, the 3950X should be more efficient, since it has better silicon (or at least it's been promised to be better).


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 18, 2019)

csendesmark said:


> I heard that,
> But the 3900X should need the same then, I mean, the difference isn't big.
> Or actually, the 3950X should be more efficient, since it has better silicon (or at least it's been promised to be better).



I don't have the 3900X on air but it does run into the high 70s with my Corsair h115i (20-23c ambient)... pretty sure it would run significantly hotter on a typical air cooler. High end Noctua comes pretty close. 

Also I wouldn't compare review samples to retail samples more people need to get them before we can compare how binned they are.


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## Tomgang (Nov 18, 2019)

First how dit you get your hands on a 3950X already, where 3950X not first set to be available November 25?

Secondly it does sound a bit hot according to what reviews get of temperatures. I read a review from hexus that used a Noctua NH-D15 with a single fan and they oc it manually to all core 4.375 ghz and max temp whas 98 degrees Celsius at 1.375 volts and with two fans this cooler is rated to only 220 watt tdp and with one fan the tdp rate would be even lower. So 89 degrees stock does sound a bit hot to me and also other reviews with a single tower cpu aircooler cut get temp as low as 76 degrees Celsius stock. I can't say what is wrong. It can be cooler contact is not totally 100 % right. Maybe try look after if the cooler are mounted straight and are secured properly and not sitting lose. I assume you used the right amount of cooling paste, to much or to little can have a negative effect on transfer of heat. In rare occasions I have herd of CPU's being badly soldered from factory. Also ryzen 3000 act more like a gpu boost than you are used to for cpu boosting. Case airflow is also importen and how is the ambient temperature where you live.


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## mstenholm (Nov 18, 2019)

csendesmark said:


> I heard that,
> But the 3900X should need the same then, I mean, the difference isn't big.
> Or actually, the 3950X should be more efficient, since it has better silicon (or at least it's been promised to be better).


My 3900x, stock, hits 68 C with a 480 mm radiator running 100 % CPU. You need to go big if you run these CPUs at a contentious high load, or learn to live with the fact that it throttles.


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## John Naylor (Nov 18, 2019)

csendesmark said:


> And what about the thermals?
> I know the 2700 was only a 65W TDP CPU, but this one quickly hitting 90°C and it making me nervous,
> Isn't it killing the hardware on the long run?



I concerned he $45 Scythe Fuma (if ya can find one) / $55 Fuma 2 would give ya the same temps as a H150i Pro


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## moproblems99 (Nov 18, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> My 3900x, stock, hits 68 C with a 480 mm radiator running 100 % CPU. You need to go big if you run these CPUs at a contentious high load, or learn to live with the fact that it throttles.



My 3900x doesn't go over 68c with a 240mm rad.  Ambient temps are 26-28c.


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## csendesmark (Nov 18, 2019)

Okay, I get it now...





_We're gonna need a bigger cooler _

For now I would not spend any cent on new hardware, 
Is would be nice to just set a max vcore for the CPU and then let it find a correct ~lower clock speed.
Can I do it without sacrificing the precision boost option?


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## mstenholm (Nov 18, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> My 3900x doesn't go over 68c with a 240mm rad.  Ambient temps are 26-28c.


I will update when I get it under Windows. I was expecting my set-up to perform better. My ambient is 20-21 C and the rad is outside the case....


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 18, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> I will update when I get it under Windows. I was expecting my set-up to perform better. My ambient is 20-21 C and the rad is outside the case....



I think the Aorus Master has slightly higher stock voltages than most boards unless you go into the PBO section and Manually turn it off.

Also with custom water you may be at the IHS limits of transferring heat without going sub ambient.


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## mstenholm (Nov 18, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I think the Aorus Master has slightly higher stock voltages than most boards unless you go into the PBO section and Manually turn it off.


No PBO, Linux...no clue what the VCore is.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 18, 2019)

Your guy's 68c is making me jealous.... Mine typically stays around 72-74c during stressing with some very brief jumps to 76-77 then back down for whatever reason. I just run at the balanced preset though to me 100% fans isn't realistic.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 18, 2019)

*@csendesmark*
Put a small fan right on the VRM package area. 
That should help bring your temps down a touch or two.  
A large enough fan on the VRM package area, might hit the base of the cpu cooler too!!
Cost should be in the ball park of free, if you have a fan laying around.


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## csendesmark (Nov 18, 2019)

*@ShrimpBrime*
I picked my case to have that general part windy


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 18, 2019)

csendesmark said:


> *@ShrimpBrime*
> I picked my case to have that general part windy


I know, I know, it requires removing the panel and finding a way to fasten it while the case is upright. 
But the time and effort may be worth it while using that air cooler.
Is also recommended when using liquid cooling as well.


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## Zach_01 (Nov 19, 2019)

csendesmark said:


> Hello All
> Today I upgraded my Ryzen 7 2700 with a Ryzen 9 3950X - _good news!_
> My Motherboard is an ASUS PRIME X470-PRO (_BIOS Version 5220- the latest available_)
> 
> ...


There is nothing wrong with the CPU. Dont disable anything.
You just used to different behaviour and different temp reading coming from the 2700X to 3000series. What you saw to 2700X was the average temp of the whole die. What you are seeing now with 3950X is the absolute hot spot of the cores inside the CPU. The 1000/2000 series dont report that.
Also the core voltage works differently in the 3000 line. When the load is low you will see high voltages but there is no stress to the CPU because the current is low. If the load increases and its more constant then the voltage drops to where is supposed to go.

You can see it if you install the HWiNFO64.








						Free Download HWiNFO Sofware | Installer & Portable for Windows, DOS
					

Start to analyze your hardware right now! HWiNFO has available as an Installer and Portable version for Windows (32/64-bit) and Portable version for DOS.




					www.hwinfo.com
				




Take a lok at the pics below to *max* and *avg* values.

First is *after* 1 hour of browsing and watching videos
Second is *after* 1 hour of gaming
All CPU setting are auto and PBO enabled










*During* Cinebench R20 all core





EDIT:

The Tctl/Tdie one is all new hot spot of cores (the reading is switching between different sensors in miliseconds to report always the hotest)
The CCD Tdie is either from a single sensor at some edge of the die/CCD... or it is the average of all 60+ sensors inside the CCD (I'm guessing the first)


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## csendesmark (Nov 19, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> There is nothing wrong with the CPU. Dont disable anything.
> You just used to different behaviour and different temp reading coming from the 2700X to 3000series. What you saw to 2700X was the average temp of the whole die. What you are seeing now with 3950X is the absolute hot spot of the cores inside the CPU. The 1000/2000 series dont report that.
> Also the core voltage works differently in the 3000 line. When the load is low you will see high voltages but there is no stress to the CPU because the current is low. If the load increases and its more constant then the voltage drops to where is supposed to go.
> 
> ...


Thank You


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## Zach_01 (Nov 19, 2019)

csendesmark said:


> Thank You


For reference I add the last 2 edited lines.
I may also add that I'm using AIO water cooler, the Corsair H110i 280mm and I'm not using any case.

I would really like to see (like those HWiINFO pics) how the 3950X behaves in similar workloads with your current configuration/cooling.


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## csendesmark (Nov 19, 2019)

Can do it later,
with Adobe Premiere workloads 

_Edit_
Worst case: I have to buy a Corsair H110i 280mm  or similar solution


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## Zach_01 (Nov 19, 2019)

If you can and willing to do...
1) browsing/videos
2) gaming
3) heavy work load

You can record 3 sessions individually as HWiNFO (sensors only mode) has the ability to restart readings from zero hitting that clock down right.
Am I wrong, or the adobe premiere does not load well every core/thread when there are more that 12c/24t available? I may remember it wrong...

Thanks!



csendesmark said:


> Worst case: I have to buy a Corsair H110i 280mm  or similar solution


First do everything you can to improve case air flow, within sane limits of course, and then you could look for a AIO because you may end up to pay a large amount of money with not so great ROI (return of investment)


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## csendesmark (Nov 19, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> If you can and willing to do...
> 1) browsing/videos
> 2) gaming
> 3) heavy work load
> ...



I know HWInfo, am am not really playing anymore but will do the rest

Also, do you think if my CoolerMaster CM 690 III receive a Corsair H110i
or maybe I might go for a  H150i PRO  with a case which is ready for the big block.

_Edit:_
Adobe Premiere itself is single threaded when you do your project, but when you do apply stabilizer for the clips, each clip having it's thread assigned so that is scaling rather nicely, which I planning to do.
Also when you exporting the final render, which is using all available cores by default


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## Zach_01 (Nov 19, 2019)

I found that at your case you can fit a radiator:

Top/Front: 240mm
Back: 120mm






						CM 690 III | Cooler Master
					






					www.coolermaster.com
				




The H110i is 280mm and the H150i Pro 360mm

You must check through reviews for what is a good 240mm AIO compared to other 240, and against to tower air coolers...


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## GamerGuy (Nov 19, 2019)

I applied the 1usmus Power Plan on my Ryzen rig which has Win10 v1909, as well as the latest BIOS F10c for my Aorus Xtreme. This is with a Thermaltake Water 3.0 360 AIO....a good 280 AIO and higher should be pretty good for the 3950X. The below screenshot was taken after playing about 20 mins of UT3 and about 1 hour of Metro Exodus.


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## Zach_01 (Nov 19, 2019)

If only we could see the perf# numbers...

I have also 1usmus's power plan along with the BIOS settings that requiered. Since that I saw light/middle/gaming loads stay on the reffered top performance cores, and besides that windows scheduler is trying to keep things mostly in 1 CCX of the 1 and only CCD.
I'm also on F10c and 1909 but the above findings I noticed, was the same with F10a and 1903.
The only difference with BIOS change F10a --> F10c was that PrecisionBoost wasnt working the same. I had it on advanced and eventually now is just enabled to work the same.

This power plan was targeting of course the 2CCD/4CCX CPUs like yours and 3950X. There should be working better.


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## csendesmark (Nov 19, 2019)

After 36min of Premiere with around ~50% utilization: 












Later will check with a little stress test when it runs ~100%


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## Zach_01 (Nov 19, 2019)

Man are you having those values magnified... why really?

Did you change the order of the columns from current/min/max/avg to current/max/?/?


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## csendesmark (Nov 19, 2019)

Well, my next 4K display will be a larger one


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## Zach_01 (Nov 19, 2019)

This is what a 24" 1920x1200 fits... you dont need a 4K for that...


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 19, 2019)

csendesmark said:


> Well, my next 4K display will be a larger one



Looks good to me!! My eyes aren't as good as they used to be!!

Put a fan on it yet?? (curious to see if it would help!!)


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 19, 2019)

Your temps do look high for a 50% load. The review units were running at around 1.2v on all core workloads yours seems to be running much higher than that.


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## Zach_01 (Nov 19, 2019)

Yes, the temps are a bit high but the vcore I dont know... Its possible once in full load all cores may drop frequency further (4.2 -> 4.1 or even 3.9) and voltage from 1.3+ to 1.2~1.15. And that consumption of  ~140W will remain about the same.
This is how ZEN2 works...

EDIT: 45 minutes later

I just did a quick Cb R20 test with 6 and 12 threads...

*6* threads: Avg speed *~4050MHz*, Avg voltage *1.37V*, Avg total package draw *68W*, score *2250
12* threads: Avg speed *~3950MHz*, Avg voltage *1.30V*, Avg total package draw *76W*, score *3500*


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 19, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> Yes, the temps are a bit high but the vcore I dont know... Its possible once in full load all cores may drop frequency further (4.2 -> 4.1 or even 3.9) and voltage from 1.3+ to 1.2~1.15. And that consumption of  ~140W will remain about the same.
> This is how ZEN2 works...



one of his CCD is significantly hotter also and looks like the culprit of his bad temps maybe its a mounting issue.... at 50% ish load for a couple hours my cpu maxes in the 50s his shouldn't be 20-30C higher even on his cooler. 

 My CPU is more comparable than yours to his and even under 100% load for hours my temps don't get that high with the same ish voltage. 1.32-1.35 also both my CCD are typically 2-3C from each other regardless of workload.


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## Zach_01 (Nov 19, 2019)

I edited my previous post, did you see it? with the Cb test.



oxrufiioxo said:


> *one of his CCD is significantly hotter* also and looks like the culprit of his bad temps maybe its a mounting issue.... at 50% ish load for a couple hours my cpu maxes in the 50s his shouldn't be 20-30C higher even on his cooler.


Of course that is happening he is running only 50% load... All the load is mostly on 1 of the 2 CCDs. Look at the individual core power SMU from 0 to 7. Its ~13W per core and then look the other cores 8-15.
Maybe he doesnt have good case air flow...



oxrufiioxo said:


> My CPU is more comparable than yours to his and even under 100% load for hours my temps don't get that high with the same ish voltage. 1.32-1.35 also both my CCD are typically 2-3C from each other regardless of workload.


He is having 25% more cores than you to each CCD. With the *same voltage and speed *it will produce more heat. Are you running 4.2GHz at 50% load?


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 20, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> I edited my previous post, did you see it? with the Cb test.
> 
> 
> Of course that is happening he is running only 50% load... All the load is mostly on 1 of the 2 CCDs. Look at the individual core power SMU from 0 to 7. Its ~13W per core and then look the other cores 8-15.
> ...



typically 4.2-4.3 at 50% or less and 4.0-4.1 100% all core..... Reviews showed the 3950X to run cooler than the 3900X regardless of load due to it being better binned. This is why OP is mostly confused by his temps his seem to be worse than even the boxed cooler with similar workloads on a 3900X


honestly until more people get this cpu at retail it's going to be really hard to gauge how Retail samples behave.
AMD could have sent golden samples to reviewers and slightly higher than 3900X may be the norm

launched slightly after R20 started


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## Zach_01 (Nov 20, 2019)

I agree with you 100% that he is running hot. No doubt... yours having the same 140~145W reading and it is 10~15C lower. But you are on AIO. Don’t forget also that reviewers do the tests straight to ambient ~22C.

Also the difference in the 2CCDs the OP is seeing is normal as the hottest one produces on avg 13W per core and the coolest only 4~5W per core. This explains the almost 20C delta.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 20, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> I agree with you 100% that he is running hot. No doubt... yours having the same 140~145W reading and it is 10~15C lower. But you are on AIO. Don’t forget also that reviewers do the tests straight to ambient ~22C.
> 
> Also the difference in the 2CCDs the OP is seeing is normal as the hottest one produces on avg 13W per core and the coolest only 4~5W per core. This explains the almost 20C delta.



Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you either your points are all valid.... Just going by reviews his seems to be running hot even for his cooler I could be absolutely wrong and his cooler may just not be good enough.

Also his VRM is likely running significantly hotter than ours even during modest workloads contributing to the heat around the socket.
every review ran the chip in an extremely overbuilt x570 board that I have read.

Regardless going high end Noctua or similar is probably his best bet assuming it fits in his case..... the 690 III isn't all that great for radiators.


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## Zach_01 (Nov 20, 2019)

Yes, could be just the cooler... I don’t really know how it performs normally.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 20, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> Yes, could be just the cooler... I don’t really know how it performs normally.


Pretty much the only thing that's cooling the cpu, so I agree with you guys. 
He could try to space the fan off the cooler to eliminate the dead zone at the center of the fan.
Push pull fan set up if the case has the space.
Fan near the VRM just for added measures.
Could also try to lower ambient temps 5-10c also. That helps quite a bit sometimes.
All of the above, or build a nice custom water loop and run it nice and cool..... (AIO I guess if you're broke after buying the cpu....)


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## csendesmark (Nov 20, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Your temps do look high for a 50% load. The review units were running at around 1.2v on all core workloads yours seems to be running much higher than that.


I learned that HWInfo can't measure correctly the vcore on these processor, because it heightening the average vcore measurements,
when a Ryzen 3000 CPU sending any core to sleep, hwinfo keeps showing the last reported vcore voltage, incorrectly
Also checked against the Ryzen Master tool which is usually showing a lower value across the chip.


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## Zach_01 (Nov 20, 2019)

What version of HWiNFO are you using? There have been some changes in the last few versions (6.13.3955beta and after)





						Effective clock vs instant (discrete) clock
					

It has become a common practice for several years to report instant (discrete) clock values for CPUs. This method is based on knowledge of the actual bus clock (BCLK) and sampling of core ratios at specific time points. The resulting clock is then a simple result of ratio * BCLK. Such approach...




					www.hwinfo.com
				




Also from the day I got the R5 3600 and install HWiNFO (6.10.xxxx) I noticed that if the PC stay long enough at idle state, the minimum individual core voltage reading is 0.2V


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## csendesmark (Nov 20, 2019)

the recommended version - always the latest stable available



Zach_01 said:


> Also from the day I got the R5 3600 and install HWiNFO (6.10.xxxx) I noticed that if the PC stay long enough at idle state, the minimum individual core voltage reading is 0.2V


Those  V 0,200-s are totally possible,
what I say is: when the cores are running with an elevated voltage like 1,3~1,4V then getting a sleep command the HWInfo will not refresh the value and keep calculating the avg vcore with that "ghost" value
While Ryzen Master can detect sleeping cores


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## Zach_01 (Nov 21, 2019)

Yes, Ryzen master uses different method... The last implementations of HWiNFO though respect the sleeping mode. Thus, the effective core clock.


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