# Good Server?



## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 5, 2013)

I have to select parts for a pretend server for school. I had 150k to spend on 2 servers plus routers, switches, CALS for Server 2k8 and 2k3, and 40 IP phones.

Here is the parts selection I went with for 1 server so far:

Server 1:
Motherboard: SuperMicro H8QG7-LN4F       –$929.69
Processors: 4 x AMD Opteron 6386SE 2.8GHz 16- CORE Socket G34  –$5943.56
Case: SuperMicro Tower/4U Rack w/ Redundent 1280W PSU Model CSE-747TQ-R1K28B --$999.09
Hard Drives: 4x HGST 600GB SAS-600 15000 RPM 3.5” – $1050.05
SSD: 1 x OCZ ZD4CM88-FH-1.6TB PCIe 2.0 x8 MLC Z-Drive R4 – $8928.45
RAM: 1TB DDR3 1600MHz ECC Registered Hynix Quad Rank – $29300.48+(12557.44(fall discount))
Windows Server 2008 R2 Standard w/SP1 – $706.73
Windows Server 2003 Standard – $200

What do you guys think?


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## newtekie1 (Oct 5, 2013)

Is this a public school?

If so, you're doing it wrong.  You need to just throw together a couple celeron machines, get a few dumb switches, and pocket the rest of the cash.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 5, 2013)

newtekie1 said:


> Is this a public school?
> 
> If so, you're doing it wrong.  You need to just throw together a couple celeron machines, get a few dumb switches, and pocket the rest of the cash.



This is a class project. As in, I am working for a fictitious company building servers for their fictitious client.


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## erocker (Oct 6, 2013)

Why AMD over Intel?

Why only 3TB of storage?

Why 2 O/S's?

What is your reasoning for the parts you chose? Anyone can throw money at parts and build a theoretical server. I can't believe that that's all your teacher wants. It makes no sense and offers nothing in terms of learning anything.


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## Compgeke (Oct 6, 2013)

Just curious, is there any purpose for the servers? And what kind of load is this (fake) company going to have on their systems? This helps determine what all is needed.

IP Phones are also another issue. You're going to need PoE switches for this. Shoretel phones also use their own custom hardware to connect the phones from the outside world into the network. I'm not sure if this is the same for Cisco and other companies, as I've never worked with those before.


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## Fourstaff (Oct 6, 2013)

Purpose of server? Data storage, or virtual machines? Or hosting internet? Etc?


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## ShiBDiB (Oct 6, 2013)

Why 2 os's? Why the SSD (not necessary depending on what type of server this is)? 

Really we can't help you unless you give us some pretend guidelines for what it's for.. right now it looks like you picked random stuff and threw it together


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## Mindweaver (Oct 6, 2013)

Yea, I'm with everyone else, what's the purpose of the server? It's easy to pick shine things, but you need to be sure they are going to do what you need them to do.


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## Compgeke (Oct 6, 2013)

I have nothing better to do, so here's a generic build that could probably handle anything you throw at it. The case has some poor descriptions for the drive caddies, however it should be able to hold everything. If not a little double sided tape has never hurt any SSDs.

 Once You Know, You Newegg

There are two extra HDDs and one extra SSD in case of drive failure, keeps downtime shorter.

--

For networking: Is this here going to be a single-floor, single-building workplace or multi-building or multi-floor? This here is important when it comes to making the networking actually work. 

For multi-buildings you're going to want to do a switch in each building. Multi-floors a switch for each floor is useful but not always required if it's just a two-story building.

Saying you have a single-floor building for 40 people, this networking stuff here would work alright, saying you're running the DHCP server on one of the physical servers. With the power of the stuff I put together you could virtualize a lot of systems.

 Once You Know, You Newegg

--

And now for the phones: That's the hard part. You really can't get a quote on the cost of hardware and phones by just looking online for 20 minutes. You're more than likely going to have to call up someone yourself and find out the cost. 

I've installed Shoretel phones in the past and used both Shoretel and Cisco phones. I'm personally a fan of the Shoretel phones. The particular phones I would go with are Shoretel 230 and Shoretel 115. They're basically the same thing except the 115 doesn't have the advanced features of the 230. The 230 is good for full people who constantly use a phone. The 115 is good for people who don't always need a phone at hand, and with the computer software it's easy enough to work with.


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## brandonwh64 (Oct 6, 2013)

Start with the network side such as the routers and switches and IP phones.

Cisco 3750X switches and Cisco 1900/2900 series Integrated Services Routers.

IP phones are a different story... They require a PBX or VPBX so I would loo at Cisco Small Business VOIP system and its requirements before just buying VOIP Phones.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 6, 2013)

erocker said:


> *Why AMD over Intel?*
> 
> Why only 3TB of storage?
> 
> ...



Agreed. Definitely should be going Intel. Having actually worked on such servers, 99% of them were Intel. And for good reason.


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## brandonwh64 (Oct 6, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Agreed. Definitely should be going Intel. Having actually worked on such servers, 99% of them were Intel. And for good reason.



I have to agree here I have not seen much AMD server machines. We just installed a sun server that had dual X79 xeons running solaris linux.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 6, 2013)

erocker said:


> Why AMD over Intel?
> 
> Why only 3TB of storage?
> 
> ...



We were not given a specific server type to go with. That is the next part. He wants us to get used to selecting parts within a budget. The Two OSes is because we are going to be using a VPS i believe. That and we have not covered 2012 yet. As for the 3TB of storage, again, I do not know the purpose of the server yet so I stuck an SSD in there to take up costs until I know what the server is for.



Compgeke said:


> Just curious, is there any purpose for the servers? And what kind of load is this (fake) company going to have on their systems? This helps determine what all is needed.
> 
> IP Phones are also another issue. You're going to need PoE switches for this. Shoretel phones also use their own custom hardware to connect the phones from the outside world into the network. I'm not sure if this is the same for Cisco and other companies, as I've never worked with those before.


I already selected several switches. 
CISCO Catalyst WS-C3560X-48P-L Managed



ShiBDiB said:


> Why 2 os's? Why the SSD (not necessary depending on what type of server this is)?
> 
> Really we can't help you unless you give us some pretend guidelines for what it's for.. right now it looks like you picked random stuff and threw it together





Compgeke said:


> I have nothing better to do, so here's a generic build that could probably handle anything you throw at it. The case has some poor descriptions for the drive caddies, however it should be able to hold everything. If not a little double sided tape has never hurt any SSDs.
> 
> Once You Know, You Newegg
> 
> ...





MxPhenom 216 said:


> Agreed. Definitely should be going Intel. Having actually worked on such servers, 99% of them were Intel. And for good reason.


I originally had a QUAD LGA 2011 setup but someone bet me I couldnt make an AMD server so I did. Plus I figured I could add more to the server using AMD. 


brandonwh64 said:


> I have to agree here I have not seen much AMD server machines. We just installed a sun server that had dual X79 xeons running solaris linux.


Thanks for the tip on the IP phones. We have not covered IP phones yet so I was not aware you needed a separate kit of hardware. I assumed you could run a VPS IP PBX.

We were told we could not spend less than the whole 150k. I went 100 over it while trying to get just under it or right on it.
As for the rest of the parts list for the setup, here is what I have selected so far.



> Server 1:
> Motherboard: SuperMicro H8QG7-LN4F       –$929.69
> Processors: 4 x AMD Opteron 6386SE 2.8GHz 16- CORE Socket G34  –$5943.56
> Case: SuperMicro Tower/4U Rack w/ Redundent 1280W PSU Model CSE-747TQ-R1K28B --$999.09
> ...


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 6, 2013)

How about this build for a Massive Storage Server with the IP Phone setup?

View attachment Newegg2.pdf



The Drives would be running in a ZFS RAID 60 Array.
The SSD is for Caching.
Public Wishlist

In RAID 60, the 45 4TB drives would net a total space of 167936 GB or 164 TB of Space.


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## erocker (Oct 6, 2013)

Killer_Rubber_Ducky said:


> I do not know the purpose of the server yet



Who in their right mind would make an extravagant server setup without a purpose?! Tell your "teacher" that you "give all the money back to the client, ask them what their needs are and build a server based on that". Maybe you'll get an A.


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## Frick (Oct 6, 2013)

If the assignement poses no purpose for the server, literally anything will do.

I'd go with a vintage setup.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 6, 2013)

erocker said:


> Who in their right mind would make an extravagant server setup without a purpose?! Tell your "teacher" that you "give all the money back to the client, ask them what their needs are and build a server based on that". Maybe you'll get an A.



well, im guessing it will be a VPS server since we had to get ~60 CALS and 2 server licenses. Most likely will be running applications remotely.


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## Aquinus (Oct 6, 2013)

erocker said:


> Who in their right mind would make an extravagant server setup without a purpose?! Tell your "teacher" that you "give all the money back to the client, ask them what their needs are and build a server based on that". Maybe you'll get an A.



This, the project sounds a bit vague. You can't really build a good server tailored to the needs of a company unless you know what their needs are. Also you need some hardware if you plan on running a software PBX and you're going to be using physical phone lines. Is it 40 VoIP clients on the network, or 40 land connections going into the PBX? If it's 40 land connections, you're going to need something like two of these: Digium TDM2400

I would go back and tell the teacher that the instructions are too vague and that you can't properly build a server for a client unless you know a bit more about their needs. Just because you have so much money doesn't mean you spend it all either which puts you in the position of "getting the best and most expensive you can" because you don't know what they need.

From a business perspective, saying "Here is X amount of dollars, go buy us some servers," is dangerous. Where saying, "Find what we need, and tell me how much it will cost," yields better results as it keeps the needs and a fiscal constraints in mind without actually being constrained so the focus is mainly on what they need. Also, unless you're going to run in free software land, I would stick with Intel. Not because they're bad, but more often than not, you'll get better performance unless you're running software that takes advantage of more cores, or if there are a ton of clients.

So really: Do whatever you want. It doesn't sound like the teacher really cares enough to give a real situation that would take everything into consideration. Whatever you do will get you an A.


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## dorsetknob (Oct 6, 2013)

No one seems to have considered the other implied costs of this project
ok so you budget for the hardware
what about the service /maintenance / running costs +software and license costs
Will your Virtual bushiness have an IT Support Dept or are you going to outsource such support ?

More for you to think about and piss off your Teacher when you seek further information from them.
After all you cannot run any IT project without Technical Support (and  Technical Support cost Money)


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 6, 2013)

Aquinus said:


> This, the project sounds a bit vague. You can't really build a good server tailored to the needs of a company unless you know what their needs are. Also you need some hardware if you plan on running a software PBX and you're going to be using physical phone lines. Is it 40 VoIP clients on the network, or 40 land connections going into the PBX? If it's 40 land connections, you're going to need something like two of these: Digium TDM2400
> 
> I would go back and tell the teacher that the instructions are too vague and that you can't properly build a server for a client unless you know a bit more about their needs. Just because you have so much money doesn't mean you spend it all either which puts you in the position of "getting the best and most expensive you can" because you don't know what they need.
> 
> ...


the project is not done. Each week the project is built upon. Next week we will be told what it is for. again, as i stated before, this part of the project is for getting used to selecting parts. we were not allowed to pick prebuilt or customizer systems. most of the people in my class are completely new to building systems.


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## BarbaricSoul (Oct 6, 2013)

erocker said:


> I can't believe that that's all your teacher wants. It makes no sense and offers nothing in terms of learning anything.



I've had an assignment similar to this. The details of my assignment was choosing computers, custom built or prebuilt, for a fictitious company buying all new computers for its' workers and a new server. The assignment was meant to show that the student has a understanding of what hardware requirements are needed for computers used for various situations, like a server needing to be very strong, while workstation desktops don't require anywhere near the same power.


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## Compgeke (Oct 6, 2013)

Frick said:


> If the assignement poses no purpose for the server, literally anything will do.
> 
> I'd go with a vintage setup.



You know, a Pentium Pro would be more fun. Not only do they cost more, you can easily fill one with 10 gig SCSI drives. If that doesn't work you could be like me and fit 2.5 TB of drives into a Pentium Pro. Yes, it did work.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 8, 2013)

So, I got an update today on the server. 

I need 4 file servers with Identical hardware for exactly $108,488.

Can anyone help me select the hardware?
I have to have this updated by the end of the day.
Apparently, we had to have backup servers for each server required. 
Since we had a requirement of 2 servers, that means we need 4 altogether.


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## brandonwh64 (Oct 8, 2013)

The phone system is still wrong ducky.... Please research a FULL BUSINESS VOIP SYSTEM before buying anything..

A little help though. A new common system that businesses are using is called a VPBX


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 8, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> The phone system is still wrong ducky.... Please research a FULL BUSINESS VOIP SYSTEM before buying anything..
> 
> A little help though. A new common system that businesses are using is called a VPBX



I don't understand how the phone system is still wrong when I have an Integrated Services Router selected from Cisco. We are not allowed to use any non-Cisco networking hardware.

Here is the Description of the Assignment in all it's glory:


> Phase 1b:
> 50 - CALS in all for 2008 Server
> 10 - CALS in all for 2003 Server
> 
> ...


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## brandonwh64 (Oct 8, 2013)

Killer_Rubber_Ducky said:


> I don't understand how the phone system is still wrong when I have an Integrated Services Router selected from Cisco. We are not allowed to use any non-Cisco networking hardware.



Sure internal phone system may work but how do you expect to call outside of the network???

Read this..

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/ios/12_2/voice/configuration/guide/vvfvoip.pdf


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## xvi (Oct 8, 2013)

Killer_Rubber_Ducky said:


> So, I got an update today on the server.
> 
> I need 4 file servers with Identical hardware for exactly $108,488.
> 
> ...



Power usage is commonly a main concern. Unless you're encrypting/compressing everything, all you'd need is a low power, single processor setup.

..and _exactly_ $108,488? Why is there only one right answer?

I highly suggest reading this article which talks about Facebook's search for the perfect server. There was another article where they explain why some of their servers are AMD (basically that they performed better than Intel in a certain task). If your theoretical company has $150k to blow on equipment, then they should be worried about power and cooling costs as well. The only time you spend that much money is when you need, like, five nines of uptime, ridiculous compute power, and a SLA through a manufacturer like Dell.

Maybe I'm out of touch with industry standards, but typically one doesn't just have a full blown server sit completely unused waiting for the main one to explode (again, if they're worried about this, they'd have an SLA with a manufacturer). About the only replacement parts one would keep would be spare hard drives. You'd have your drives set up with some kind of redundancy (1, 5 or 10 typically), you'd get either a pre-failure or complete failure of one of the drives, then you swap and rebuild the array (ideally live).


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 8, 2013)

xvi said:


> Power usage is commonly a main concern. Unless you're encrypting/compressing everything, all you'd need is a low power, single processor setup.
> 
> ..and _exactly_ $108,488? Why is there only one right answer?
> 
> ...


The price i listed was AFTER Cisco hardware costs. The price also is for 4 servers. 2 Primary, 2 Backup.


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## Frick (Oct 8, 2013)

Compgeke said:


> You know, a Pentium Pro would be more fun. Not only do they cost more, you can easily fill one with 10 gig SCSI drives. If that doesn't work you could be like me and fit 2.5 TB of drives into a Pentium Pro. Yes, it did work.
> 
> http://goput.it/qlr.jpg



But but dual socket. 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/review-socket-8-motherboards,48-6.html


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 8, 2013)

windows boxes? tell your prof he fails the course!


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 8, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> windows boxes? tell your prof he fails the course!



The class is called Advanced Server Administration with Windows Server 2008. Next semester we will take Advanced Server Administration with Linux.

Can someone please give me a spec list for 4 identical servers for a file server minus the software that would equal ~108,000 dollars? I have to turn this in today. I turned in the other one, but apparently we needed to have 4 servers instead of 2 since Microshaft says you need a backup server for each server you own.


****************************UPDATE***************************

Here is what I have come up with to revise the build. I am submitting this as my deadline is here already.

4x SuperMicro MBD=H8DG6-F-O E-ATX Dual 1944pin Socket G34 – $2319.96 ($579.99/ea)
4x Areca ARC-1882ix-24-2G PCIe x8 SATA/SAS 28port 6Gb/s RAID – $1299.99/ea
4x iStarUSA V4M24SA-BK-18R4H 4U Rackmount Server Chassis – OEM – $11387.96 ($2846.99/ea)
4x Cisco Small Business SPA3102 Voice Gateway with Router – $251.96 ($62.99/ea)
8x Noctua NH-U12DO A3 for AMD Opteron workstations and Servers CPU Cooler – $591.92 ($73.99/ea)
64x Kingston 16GB PC3-10600 DDR3-1333MHz ECC Registered CL9 RAM – $12658.56 ($197.79/ea)
8x AMD Opteron 6380 16 core 2.50GHz 16MB Cache Socket G34 processor – $11454.48 ($1431.81/ea)
96x WD RE 4TB 7200 RPM SAS 6Gbps 32MB Cache 3.5” HDD – $51802.56 ($539.61/ea)
4x OCZ Tech VeloDrive 300GB MLC PCIEx8 SSD – $10867.96 ($2716.99/ea)
4x Dell 900GB 10k RPM SAS 6Gbps 2.5” HDD – $1949.76 ($487.44/ea)
4x Windows Server 2008 R2 Standard w/SP1 – $706.73/ea
4x Windows Server 2003 Standard – $200/ea
Router 1:Cisco Systems, C3945-VSEC/K9 
$9665.00 

Router 2:Cisco Systems, C3945-VSEC/K9 
$9665.00 

Switch 1: CISCO Catalyst WS-C3560X-48P-L Managed 10/100/1000Mbps Gigabit Ethernet 
$4548.00

Switch 2:CISCO Catalyst WS-C3560X-48P-L Managed 10/100/1000Mbps Gigabit Ethernet 
$4548.00

Phones: Cisco CP-7970G-IM Unified IP Phone 40x $190/phone
$7600

CALS: 
50 Server 2008 CALS: *$1399.99 -100 CALs Server 2008 CALS
10 Server 2003 CALS: $458.95 - 20 CALS Server 2003 CALS

Total: $149,996.94


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## Aquinus (Oct 8, 2013)

How about 4 file servers for 10k? See attached.

How about some info for what these servers are going to be used for and what kind of demand they're going to have? A budget alone doesn't tell us anything.


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## ShiBDiB (Oct 8, 2013)

Let us know how he grades that... this course/professor seems a bit shit


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## xvi (Oct 8, 2013)

Aquinus said:


> How about 4 file servers for 10k? See attached.
> 
> How about some info for what these servers are going to be used for and what kind of demand they're going to have? A budget alone doesn't tell us anything.



KRD answers half your question here (below), although I agree. For a file server, even small businesses use cheap ($200-500) little NAS boxes with either an ARM, Atom or Celeron. Given the budget, we can assume a decently sized corporation, but even then, JUST serving files with good reliability wouldn't take much more than a low to mid range Xeon. A 1U with an expansion card for external SAS and a rackmount drive bay would be enough if the storage space needed to be absolutely massive.

There really isn't any clear answer given just this info.


Killer_Rubber_Ducky said:


> So, I got an update today on the server.
> 
> I need 4 file servers with Identical hardware for exactly $108,488.
> 
> ...


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 8, 2013)

xvi said:


> KRD answers half your question here (below), although I agree. For a file server, even small businesses use cheap ($200-500) little NAS boxes with either an ARM, Atom or Celeron. Given the budget, we can assume a decently sized corporation, but even then, JUST serving files with good reliability wouldn't take much more than a low to mid range Xeon. A 1U with an expansion card for external SAS and a rackmount drive bay would be enough if the storage space needed to be absolutely massive.
> 
> There really isn't any clear answer given just this info.





ShiBDiB said:


> Let us know how he grades that... this course/professor seems a bit shit





Aquinus said:


> How about 4 file servers for 10k? See attached.
> 
> How about some info for what these servers are going to be used for and what kind of demand they're going to have? A budget alone doesn't tell us anything.



Aquinus, I am *NOT* allowed to use sites like Dell to configure a server. I have to pick the parts myself from retailers.


The servers are file servers since I decided they would be. But, they are also running: Microsoft Virtualization. I personally would have gone with a Linux File server but, I am in a Windows Server Class. My experience with MS Virtualization is that it is a resource hog.  --- I asked the Prof, what the servers were for, he told me "what ever i wanted them to be." I decided on File servers/VPS since HDDs are expensive and I could get a huge amount of them to take up a large chunk of the spending goal. Unfortunately, my company is a Top Down run company and I am just the lowly IT manager. The CEO doesn't listen to me and the CIO is always on vacation.


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## xvi (Oct 8, 2013)

Killer_Rubber_Ducky said:


> The servers are file servers since I decided they would be. But, they are also running: Microsoft Virtualization. I personally would have gone with a Linux File server but, I am in a Windows Server Class. My experience with MS Virtualization is that it is a resource hog.



The question now, unfortunately, is what roles are the OSes in the VMs going to have? Windows isn't brilliant at virtualization, but Linux isn't top dog either. Ideally, you'd run something like VMware ESXi. I'm not particularly fond of virtualization, myself.

As for building a server with unlimited budget, I'unno. I'd treat it as if I were going to be a NAS that I crunch on. (Going AMD since you mentioned it earlier)
Barebones kit
4x CPU
??x whatever FB-DDR3 w/ECC memory
10 (2 spare) whatever SAS drive

Going absolutely crazy, I've managed to get a quad Opteron (64 threads), 512GB ram, 4.8 TB of crazy-low latency, crazy-high speed drive space (without going full SSD) and I only managed to rack up ~$14k before taxes.

If you need it to cost more, look at Intel's 10-12 core offerings and try to find a quad LGA-2011 board.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 9, 2013)

This assignment sounds more and more worthless as it goes.


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## Aquinus (Oct 9, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> This assignment sounds more and more worthless as it goes.



I can't agree with this more. It bothers me a bit, in fact.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 9, 2013)

xvi said:


> The question now, unfortunately, is what roles are the OSes in the VMs going to have? Windows isn't brilliant at virtualization, but Linux isn't top dog either. Ideally, you'd run something like VMware ESXi. I'm not particularly fond of virtualization, myself.
> 
> As for building a server with unlimited budget, I'unno. I'd treat it as if I were going to be a NAS that I crunch on. (Going AMD since you mentioned it earlier)
> Barebones kit
> ...



Who said anything about an unlimited budget?
$150k is not unlimited. Sure, it's a bit much for just 4 servers, but not if you add in the Cisco Enterprise or SMB hardware which Cisco will charge you through the nose for.
You forget that there are 4 separate identical servers and 2 Cisco Integrated Services Routers, 2 Cisco 48 port PoE switches, 40 IP phones, 1 IP PBX gateway, All the CALS for both Server OSes, and the Server Licenses themselves. Sure I could go with the Quad opteron setup. In fact, I have a setup with a Quad opteron, 1TB of RAM, but only a few TB of storage. Every time you respond, you give a quote for only 1 machine not including licensing costs of the Windows Server and CALS. There are 4 servers. 2 Primary and 2 Backup. Plus all the Networking gear. The routers i selected were only ~9800 dollars a piece. I could have gone balls to the walls with Cisco hardware. I found an Cisco Integrated Services Router for $98k. Everyone except Brandonwh64 seem to either forget or gloss over the cost of the networking hardware. Plus, this will be an expanding project that will last till the end of the semester. The next part coming up will involve selecting all of the computers in the company's components. There will be NO branded rigs. No Dells, no IBMs, no HPs. All custom rigs. 



MxPhenom 216 said:


> This assignment sounds more and more worthless as it goes.


So, before you go and recommend I build a Pentium Pro server like some individuals have suggested, why don't you read the assignment I took the time to type out for your benefit and stop assuming my professor is incompetent. I don't see you with the license to teach at a college. So back off cranberry man, go take a vacation or something.


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## MT Alex (Oct 9, 2013)

What is a cranberry man?


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 9, 2013)

Nah, I won't post anything in terms of a good server as you probably won't take the help anyways..................


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 9, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> What is a cranberry man?



It's a quote from Brian Regan.

I'm not surprised Phenom isnt posting anything about the server since he rarely posts any useful information anyway. Mostly thinly veiled insults about my intelligence. Also seems to assume that I am a robot that must always do what he thinks is best.......last I checked, I am human not machine.


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## xvi (Oct 9, 2013)

Killer_Rubber_Ducky said:


> Who said anything about an unlimited budget?
> $150k is not unlimited. Sure, it's a bit much for just 4 servers, but not if you add in the Cisco Enterprise or SMB hardware which Cisco will charge you through the nose for.



I realize it isn't an unlimited budget and I realize that not only do you need four servers, but you need all other equipment. The point was merely that even if you _try_ to spend all the money you can, it becomes difficult to achieve that $150k goal even with all the other equipment.

Looking at your updated post with the finalized specs, it doesn't look too bad. Some things are confusing like where you're going to fit 96 HDDs (I assume some will be backup drives, but still), but it all seems to fit the assignment and certainly isn't uncapable of its role. Good luck.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 9, 2013)

xvi said:


> I realize it isn't an unlimited budget and I realize that not only do you need four servers, but you need all other equipment. The point was merely that even if you _try_ to spend all the money you can, it becomes difficult to achieve that $150k goal even with all the other equipment.
> 
> Looking at your updated post with the finalized specs, it doesn't look too bad. Some things are confusing like where you're going to fit 96 HDDs (I assume some will be backup drives, but still), but it all seems to fit the assignment and certainly isn't uncapable of its role. Good luck.



The chassis I selected had 24 Hotswap bays.


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## Aquinus (Oct 9, 2013)

File servers don't need a whole lot of CPU power so the dual 16c CPUs is a little superfluous. I would go with dual C32s that are clocked a bit higher or a single low voltage 2011 CPU. With that many disks, you really need a competent RAID controller more than over powered CPUs. That way instead of going completely with spinning disks, you could get some SSDs to supplement the spinning disks with the money that you will save from using less expensive CPUs.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 9, 2013)

Aquinus said:


> File servers don't need a whole lot of CPU power so the dual 16c CPUs is a little superfluous. I would go with dual C32s that are clocked a bit higher or a single low voltage 2011 CPU. With that many disks, you really need a competent RAID controller more than over powered CPUs. That way instead of going completely with spinning disks, you could get some SSDs to supplement the spinning disks with the money that you will save from using less expensive CPUs.



yep. agreed. could have gone with 2 6 core xeons, better controller like something from LSI. and better drives set up.


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## Exceededgoku (Oct 9, 2013)

I usually like to help people but why is everyone doing this kids homework?

I don't remember being assigned projects/software to write and going to anyone asking them to make the program for me...

You should use the advice you've gotten so far, and ensure it's quoted as a reference to avoid being caught out for cheating.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 9, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> yep. agreed. could have gone with 2 6 core xeons, better controller like something from LSI. and better drives set up.



Show me an onboard lsi controller that supports RAID60.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 9, 2013)

Exceededgoku said:


> I usually like to help people but why is everyone doing this kids homework?
> 
> I don't remember being assigned projects/software to write and going to anyone asking them to make the program for me...
> 
> You should use the advice you've gotten so far, and ensure it's quoted as a reference to avoid being caught out for cheating.


I am not asking them to do my homework. If ypu have not noticed I have listed the hardware I selected and the purpose and have asked for suggestions to make it better. Try reading the thread first before making inane comments.


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## Exceededgoku (Oct 9, 2013)

Fair enough KRD... I won't poo on your thread but just a word of warning, that's all!


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 9, 2013)

LSI controller that supports RAID 60. 

http://www.lsi.com/products/raid-controllers/pages/megaraid-sas-9280-4i4e.aspx

http://www.lsi.com/products/raid-controllers/pages/megaraid-sas-9280-16i4e.aspx

There are many others.


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## Aquinus (Oct 9, 2013)

Don't forget BBUs for those controllers too. You'll want write caching with that many drives.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 9, 2013)

Aquinus said:


> Don't forget BBUs for those controllers too. You'll want write caching with that many drives.



Indeed.

Cache Memory  512MB 800MHz DDR II SDRAM  
Cache Protection  LSIiBBU07 or LSIiBBU08, optional intelligent battery backup modules that directly or remotely connect to the adapter


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## Aquinus (Oct 9, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Cache Memory  512MB 800MHz DDR II SDRAM
> Cache Protection  LSIiBBU07 or LSIiBBU08, optional intelligent battery backup modules that directly or remotely connect to the adapter



LSI's newer RAID controllers run on PCI-E 3.0 and have DDR3 cache instead. Weather or not it makes a considerable impact on performance is beyond me.


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## Easy Rhino (Oct 9, 2013)

this is either currently the worst active thread on tpu or the best depending on how you look at it.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 9, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Cache Memory  512MB 800MHz DDR II SDRAM
> Cache Protection  LSIiBBU07 or LSIiBBU08, optional intelligent battery backup modules that directly or remotely connect to the adapter



I said onboard not addon card.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 9, 2013)

Aquinus said:


> LSI's newer RAID controllers run on PCI-E 3.0 and have DDR3 cache instead. Weather or not it makes a considerable impact on performance is beyond me.



Wont matter when the board he chose only has PCI-E 2.0. But I would imagine, with a lot of drives connected to the controller, the extra bandwidth from the PCI-E 3.0 would help. 



Killer_Rubber_Ducky said:


> I said onboard not addon card.



JESUS Ducky, the Areca you chose, is an add-on card. which is what Aquinus and I are referring too as being sub optimal. 

So I showed you better LSI options, that are add on cards just like the Areca. 

Im not sure what you mean by onboard, because whatever you have chosen, is not onboard.

Not to mention, the board you chose, has an 8 port LSI controller on it. That's the onboard controller.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 9, 2013)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Wont matter when the board he chose only has PCI-E 2.0. But I would imagine, with a lot of drives connected to the controller, the extra bandwidth from the PCI-E 3.0 would help.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I chose an addon card at the time based on the number of ports and supporting RAId 60. the onboard LSI controller does NOT support RAID 60. The reviews I read on the Areca were good.


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## Aquinus (Oct 9, 2013)

Killer_Rubber_Ducky said:


> I chose an addon card at the time based on the number of ports and supporting RAId 60. the onboard LSI controller does NOT support RAID 60. The reviews I read on the Areca were good.



It's the price. It might be an okay controller, but LSI has been doing this for a very long time and they're pretty good at it. The best RAID controllers I've worked with have been LSI/3Ware devices. Also why do you want RAID 60? There isn't a lot of benefit to it since it doesn't add any reliable redundancy and you lose disk space. Just run RAID-6 or two different RAID 6 arrays. I wouldn't put all 24 drives in the same array though. I should also add that from a performance standpoint, 6 disk RAID-5 and 6 disk RAID-6 has better read speeds than 6 disk RAID-50, at least that has been my observation with hardware I've used.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 9, 2013)

Aquinus said:


> It's the price. It might be an okay controller, but LSI has been doing this for a very long time and they're pretty good at it. The best RAID controllers I've worked with have been LSI/3Ware devices. Also why do you want RAID 60? There isn't a lot of benefit to it since it doesn't add any reliable redundancy and you lose disk space. Just run RAID-6 or two different RAID 6 arrays. I wouldn't put all 24 drives in the same array though. I should also add that from a performance standpoint, 6 disk RAID-5 and 6 disk RAID-6 has better read speeds than 6 disk RAID-50, at least that has been my observation with hardware I've used.



Agreed, Even RAID5 arrays would suffice I would think, depending on the importance of the data it will be storing. 

Also you would have to be high to not use an add-on raid controller. 1. If the onboard fails, then you are replacing pretty much the whole server. 2. Bound to not support everything you need, etc. 

If you get an add-on card you can just trouble shoot if its the slot or the card, and proceed that way, which if its the card, just get that replaced. 

I have not seen a single server, other then a about 3 of the hundreds I worked on with one drive that used an integrated controller, which was running SATA. All other servers I have worked on ran some sort of LSI based controller card.


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## v12dock (Oct 9, 2013)

Nothing like the fastest storage array being limited by a 1gbit port. What kind of school needs this much storage at that speed with 40 staff members? I would focus money on a self-sustaining network so I an devote minimal time towards it.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 10, 2013)

v12dock said:


> Nothing like the fastest storage array being limited by a 1gbit port. What kind of school needs this much storage at that speed with 40 staff members? I would focus money on a self-sustaining network so I an devote minimal time towards it.



god, the people who dont read.........It is NOT as school that is using servers like that. It is a FICTITIOUS COMPANY. Also, why people assume that only LSI/3WARE devices have any worth.
Just because you see it in the market area you are in, does not mean NO one uses them.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 10, 2013)

GOD........the people that don't take other peoples help.............


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## Aquinus (Oct 10, 2013)

Killer_Rubber_Ducky said:


> god, the people who dont read.........It is NOT as school that is using servers like that. It is a FICTITIOUS COMPANY. Also, why people assume that only LSI/3WARE devices have any worth.
> Just because you see it in the market area you are in, does not mean NO one uses them.



I'm sorry. I'm only trying to help you with my experience as a system admin. 

It has been my observation that LSI/3Ware have controllers that perform extremely well.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 10, 2013)

Aquinus said:


> I'm sorry. I'm only trying to help you with my experience as a system admin.
> 
> It has been my observation that LSI/3Ware have controllers that perform extremely well.



i apologise if I seem angry at you. I know about the quality of the LSI controllers. However, at the time, the cost of parts was more important. If I came in 100$ short or too much, I would be docked 50 points for being over or under budget. 

There are only a very that irritate me and they know who they are.


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## AsRock (Oct 10, 2013)

Killer_Rubber_Ducky said:


> god, the people who dont read.........It is NOT as school that is using servers like that. It is a FICTITIOUS COMPANY. Also, why people assume that only LSI/3WARE devices have any worth.
> Just because you see it in the market area you are in, does not mean NO one uses them.



Then you need to know your company before you can know the hardware you need for it's needs.

So think up a company learn about what it would require for a server then build the server.

What went wrong here i believe you should of said what this  FICTITIOUS COMPANY did for people to know or have a better idea of what kind of server(s) it would require.


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## Killer_Rubber_Ducky (Oct 10, 2013)

AsRock said:


> Then you need to know your company before you can know the hardware you need for it's needs.
> 
> So think up a company learn about what it would require for a server then build the server.
> 
> What went wrong here i believe you should of said what this  FICTITIOUS COMPANY did for people to know or have a better idea of what kind of server(s) it would require.


True, but I was not aware that it was up to US as to what the company/server was for. We found out this week that it was up to us.


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