# Radeon HD 4870 X2, HD 4850 X2 Faster and Better Than GeForce GTX 295, 285: AMD



## btarunr (Jan 21, 2009)

AMD started its marketing offensive against NVIDIA's new dual-GPU GeForce GTX 295, and single-GPU GeForce GTX 285 accelerators, in an attempt to put the Radeon HD 4800 X2 series accelerators ahead of its competition in terms of performance on a "broad scale", and used the cards' availability in non-reference designs as a USP against NVIDIA's offerings using a uniform company-specified design. All this, in an internal presentation leaked to Donanim Haber. As for those wondering why, ATI and NVIDIA have a history of picking on each others' flagship products by means of such presentations, with which they intend to influence OEMs and channel vendors, though it always happens so, that these presentations reach public domains. Viral marketing or something plausible? Find out for yourself: 








 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


----------



## evil_raptor (Jan 21, 2009)

u got to be kidding right? 
GTX 295 pwns them all


----------



## pabloc74 (Jan 21, 2009)

that's funny, because this screenshots are from ati-amd, make me laugh


----------



## kid41212003 (Jan 21, 2009)

They used the highest resolution which is the weak point of GTX 295, because of its limited memory vs 1GBx2 of ATI cards.

I think this is believable.


----------



## evil_raptor (Jan 21, 2009)

pabloc74 said:


> that's funny, because this screenshots are from ati-amd, make me laugh


----------



## Exceededgoku (Jan 21, 2009)

Lol that was a good laugh , I especially like how the GTX285 has 480 shaders to HD4870 X2s 1600 shaders and the shader horsepower is 1.78 to 2.4 teraflops respectively! Surely the 4870 X2 should dominate in this respect...


----------



## evil_raptor (Jan 21, 2009)

read this review: http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-295-review-bfg/


----------



## lemonadesoda (Jan 21, 2009)

Disingenuous marketing. :shadedshu

At a technical level so many of those figures are wrong in terms of better performance. The comments are as stupid as saying 100 arrows are better than 1 machine gun, because 100 > 1.


----------



## Noggrin (Jan 21, 2009)

LOOOOL, those pics made me ROFLMAO.. also i feel bad for amd, they sunk to a new low..


----------



## omiknight52 (Jan 21, 2009)

From looking at the review the gtx 295 is not in most game benchmark's that faster then the 4870 x2. I admit it  scores better but still not worth it My feelings.


----------



## AlCabone (Jan 21, 2009)

How come the slides don't mention power consumption?


----------



## DrPepper (Jan 21, 2009)

AlCabone said:


> How come the slides don't mention power consumption?



Because no one really cares about power consumption


----------



## kysg (Jan 21, 2009)

and yes unfortunately ATI has to nitpick at nvidia.  They gotta do something this time to keep from getting their rears from being handed to them again on a silver platter. Couldn't be anyworse than what some other companies do...


----------



## The Witcher (Jan 21, 2009)

god damn 

I never knew that AMD were so stupid like that.

I guess they think that we are so unintelligent to the point that we won't even recognize their BS ?!

This made me lose my respect for AMD, they were so direct and rude -.-

They could get sued for this right ?

This thing reminds of the latest Asus VS Gigabyte war xD

In the end AMD will apologize 

(Too many thoughts in my mind right now )


----------



## Xiphos (Jan 21, 2009)

this is good for AMD 

marketing is where it's at


----------



## lemonadesoda (Jan 21, 2009)

Just a few random examples to even the boat little:

Call of Duty 5






BiA: Hells Highway





Crysis Warhead




Performance Summary from TPU


----------



## my-id (Jan 21, 2009)

Hi Guys
May be AMD-ATI has something we don't, and that's ATI CCC 9.1.
so we will wait for new driver from AMD.


----------



## TRIPTEX_CAN (Jan 21, 2009)

Why is ATI saying anything about the 4850x2? They don't even write drivers to support the card. Sapphire has to support them. ATI crippled the launch of the 4850x2 just to help the 4870x2 sales. 

ATI is blowing smoke out of their a$$... Where is Catalyst 9.1? instead of trying to rain on Nvidia's parade ATI should go back to work on their own drivers.


----------



## Laurijan (Jan 21, 2009)

AMD´s statement that the 285 doesnt offer anything new compared to the 280 is wrong cause its 55nm technology thus cooler..


----------



## soldier242 (Jan 21, 2009)

come on guys, nvidia does the same thing ... and i see it reasonable that the 4870 x2 does quite good in ultra high resolutions and with AA & AF turned all the way up


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Jan 21, 2009)

I hate the dirty marketing between companies...  so sad.  We all know the GTX295 pwns.


----------



## phanbuey (Jan 21, 2009)

lol... this is like the "true quad core performance boost over Core 2" barcelona screenshots...  I wonder how much theyre paying baghdad bob to come up with these.


----------



## Laurijan (Jan 21, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> lol... this is like the "true quad core performance boost over Core 2" barcelona screenshots...  I wonder how much theyre paying baghdad bob to come up with these.



lol Badhdad Bob


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 21, 2009)

kid41212003 said:


> They used the highest resolution which is the weak point of GTX 295, because of its limited memory vs 1GBx2 of ATI cards.
> 
> I think this is believable.



It acts as 1 GB


----------



## adrianx (Jan 21, 2009)

so....your test are with out AA

the test from the thread are with AA 8X 


so... let compare same apple ... not an apple with an EGG


----------



## Weer (Jan 21, 2009)

Wow, that's just cheap.

They purposefully set Crysis @ 2560x1600 with 4xAA, knowing that at exactly that setting the GTX 295 crumbles only because of memory capacity, and then yell at our faces bluntly provoking the lie that the 4870X2 is better.

Simply unbelievable.


----------



## newtekie1 (Jan 21, 2009)

Sorry ATi, no matter how you spin it, when impartial independant people analyze your products, your top end Dual-Core solution is matched by nVidia's Single-Core solution.

How about you stop putting so much money into BS marketing, and actually come out with a competitive product, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to do this.  Not a product that matches last generation's products from your competitor, an actual competitive product.  I'm being totally serious here, I really want ATi to start competiting.  The consumer needs competition at the highest level.  You have put out such great products in the past, and RV770 was a step in the right direction, but not a big enough step.  And now, to top everything off, your letting your drivers degrade.  I expect so much more.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 21, 2009)

As wrong as this is on AMDs part I think its on par for the market. Everyone pulls this crap. The 4870x2 is a great card without a doubt. I wish they didn't do this however. No matter how good the card is this kind of marketing only appeals to fanboys and turns guys like me off.


----------



## btarunr (Jan 21, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> and RV770 was a step in the right direction, but not a big enough step.



It was. You're getting a GTX 285 at ~$400 and GTX 295 for $99 more, thanks to the RV770 and products based on it. That being said, the GT200b is a step in the right direction, but it was more or less brought to reality thanks to the competition ATI brought in. Building high-end GPUs on 55nm process wasn't really part of NVIDIA's long-term plans. The GT200 was to hold ground until GT212, built on the 40nm process.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 21, 2009)

What I dont understand is they have the "vanilla" HD4850 so low on the food chain. It's an awesome card!


----------



## CDdude55 (Jan 21, 2009)

Dones't matter to me, there both still X2 Expensive.


----------



## 3870x2 (Jan 21, 2009)

doesnt the 4870x2 own all at high resolutions? why on earth would you be playing with a GTX295 on 1440x900? in this respect, the 4870x2 wins.
That doesn't say that this isnt a bunch of marketing bologni, though.


----------



## Whilhelm (Jan 21, 2009)

I don't see why everybody is getting so bent out of shape about this. Both companies do this to each other all the time and this time AMD is just trying to make their product look more appealing because they know they nvidia has the faster card. The 4870x2 has been out for quite some time and it only makes sense for the new nvidia dual card solution to be hands down faster.  ATI will attempt to hit them back when the R870 is ready and nvidia will probably do the same with their next card a few months following that. 

It has been going like this since the companies entered the market and that is the way it will always be until one company bows out. Competition is good but I hate this kind of smear marketing and it doesn't matter which company does it. 

Using this as an excuse to flame the crap out of ATI for this is a bit much because all they are trying to do is sell their product even though some of the slides are pretty questionable.


----------



## phanbuey (Jan 21, 2009)

3870x2 said:


> doesnt the 4870x2 own all at high resolutions? why on earth would you be playing with a GTX295 on 1440x900? in this respect, the 4870x2 wins.
> That doesn't say that this isnt a bunch of marketing bologni, though.



It does not.  Only rarely at the highest resolution because the 295 can only use 896 MB of ram and the 4870X2 has 1024MB of usable ram.  - When both cards run out of framebuffer, that extra 128MB of ram will put it ahead.


----------



## EastCoasthandle (Jan 21, 2009)

Interesting, I wonder if there will be a review showing benchmarks between the 2 at 2560 using 8xAA, 16xAF  using cat 9.1?


----------



## computerdeth (Jan 21, 2009)

Could be fake. I tried looking for it on AMDs website and I cant find nothing of that.


----------



## btarunr (Jan 21, 2009)

computerdeth said:


> Could be fake. I tried looking for it on AMDs website and I cant find nothing of that.



It's not a public presentation and will never feature on the company website.


----------



## leonard_222003 (Jan 21, 2009)

I think they made some improvements to catalyst 9.1 and give some better scores in crysis and other games.
http://www.behardware.com/news/10055/dx10-catalyst-9-1-quad.html
They both have preety powerfull hardware and there is much to be tweaked from drivers to get more perf. , the hardware is good , the drivers need more work to get more perf..
Funny thing , crysis ,  a game made to showcase Nvidia hardware is present in Ati's slides to show their superiority  , hahaha.


----------



## a_ump (Jan 21, 2009)

I don't find a problem with these results at all, though i'm not sure i trust these numbers, if ATI have new catalyst drivers 9.1 and they've enabled their sideport on the HD 4870x2 then i think it's possible that the HD 4870x2 is beating the GTX 295, though i don't really trust it to beat it by those margins. Also i read some of you saying "well they tested at high resolutions, the GTX 295's weak point". *WHO IN THE HELL* is going to buy these cards unless they are playing at high resolutions? These are enthusiast, top of the line graphic cards, they're meant for high resolutions, so the fact that they used 1920x1200 and 2560x1600 makes perfect sense to me. As for the marketing ploy, who cares, what company doesn't in some way try to put down their competition?


----------



## Castiel (Jan 21, 2009)

There just showing of what there card can do. As most of us know some cards do good and some don't. ATI is just pointing out of what the card can do. As you know, some games are made with certain cards, and some games play better on a Nvidia card and some play better on a ATI card. I have see this with my 4850X2. But we are just going to have to wait and see Nvidia's response and see if ATI tries to come out with anything else. 

I say there is no point in arguing over this and getting heated. I will say that Nvidia is winning, but ATI is just trying to come back and showing the public what there cards can do... I think that is called marketing?


----------



## leonard_222003 (Jan 21, 2009)

a_ump said:


> I don't find a problem with these results at all, though i'm not sure i trust these numbers, if ATI have new catalyst drivers 9.1 and they've enabled their sideport on the HD 4870x2 then i think it's possible that the HD 4870x2 is beating the GTX 295, though i don't really trust it to beat it by those margins. Also i read some of you saying "well they tested at high resolutions, the GTX 295's weak point". *WHO IN THE HELL* is going to buy these cards unless they are playing at high resolutions? These are enthusiast, top of the line graphic cards, they're meant for high resolutions, so the fact that they used 19020x1080 and 2560x1600 makes perfect sense to me. As for the marketing ploy, who cares, what company doesn't in some way try to put down their competition?



Exactly , it's not like you buy a card like this to play at 1280x1024 , it's just overkill.
Even testing in low resolution these cards is pointless but they follow the routine.


----------



## Valdez (Jan 21, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> Sorry ATi, no matter how you spin it, when impartial independant people analyze your products, your top end Dual-Core solution is matched by nVidia's Single-Core solution.
> 
> How about you stop putting so much money into BS marketing, and actually come out with a competitive product, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to do this.  Not a product that matches last generation's products from your competitor, an actual competitive product.  I'm being totally serious here, I really want ATi to start competiting.  The consumer needs competition at the highest level.  You have put out such great products in the past, and RV770 was a step in the right direction, but not a big enough step.  And now, to top everything off, your letting your drivers degrade.  I expect so much more.



Lol, what is that graph? gtx295 is 11% faster than gtx285?


----------



## EastCoasthandle (Jan 21, 2009)

If graphic card manufacture(s) are cutting their order with the competition (along with some no longer being exclusive to the competition) then this information may in fact be working.


----------



## rpsgc (Jan 21, 2009)

What part of INTERNAL PRESENTATION do you people not understand? Nvidia does the same shit, Intel does the same shit.


----------



## leonard_222003 (Jan 21, 2009)

rpsgc said:


> What part of INTERNAL PRESENTATION do you people not understand? Nvidia does the same shit, Intel does the same shit.



They need to lie , otherwise they can't be in this bussines for too long .


----------



## department76 (Jan 21, 2009)

Valdez said:


> Lol, what is that graph? gtx295 is 11% faster than gtx285?



gtx285 --> gtx295
+11% performance
+25% price

that's why i don't buy enthusiast... same with intel core extreme stuff, or any intel.  usually AMD/ATI is much better for the money you actually pay.


----------



## Mega-Japan (Jan 21, 2009)

a_ump said:


> I don't find a problem with these results at all, though i'm not sure i trust these numbers, if ATI have new catalyst drivers 9.1 and they've enabled their sideport on the HD 4870x2 then i think it's possible that the HD 4870x2 is beating the GTX 295, though i don't really trust it to beat it by those margins. Also i read some of you saying "well they tested at high resolutions, the GTX 295's weak point". *WHO IN THE HELL* is going to buy these cards unless they are playing at high resolutions? These are enthusiast, top of the line graphic cards, they're meant for high resolutions, so the fact that they used 1920x1200 and 2560x1600 makes perfect sense to me. As for the marketing ploy, who cares, what company doesn't in some way try to put down their competition?



You said it partner.

I think it's better for people to think 4870 X2 = GTX 295. Unless you're freaking testing your hardware by milliseconds and digits below 0.01, the usual gamer won't see a damn difference. We're not comparing a GeForce 8600 with the 4870 X2 here, but instead the two TOP OF THE LINE video cards in the market. Doesn't matter which one can give you an extra frame per second. You can't go wrong between these two, at least that's how I see it.


----------



## Valdez (Jan 21, 2009)

leonard_222003 said:


> They need to lie , otherwise they can't be in this bussines for too long .



I agree this is bullshit, but nv did this too, many times before.

With 8xaa the 4870x2 may beat the gtx295.

http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...force_gtx_295/20/#abschnitt_performancerating


----------



## EastCoasthandle (Jan 21, 2009)

Valdez said:


> I agree this is bullshit, but nv did this too, many times before.
> 
> With 8xaa the 4870x2 may beat the gtx295.
> 
> http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...force_gtx_295/20/#abschnitt_performancerating



Hmm, why does one have to click on Rating 2560x1600 8xAA/16xAF in order to see it?  (at the bottom of the page on the left side)


----------



## Valdez (Jan 21, 2009)

EastCoasthandle said:


> Hmm, why does one have to click on Rating 2560x1600 8xAA/16xAF in order to see it?  (at the bottom of the page on the left side)



I don't know, maybe 2560 with 8xaa is not a realistic situation  
Anyway thanks for the info, i didn't notice that


----------



## EastCoasthandle (Jan 21, 2009)

Valdez said:


> I don't know, maybe 2560 with 8xaa is not a realistic situation
> Anyway thanks for the info, i didn't notice that



That website did use a beta of Cat 9.1 so those results at 8xaa are encouraging. Therefore, IMO it justify those slides to some degree.  However, I'll hold my final opinion until after cat 9.1 is actually released.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 21, 2009)

bta any word on when they might have 9.1 out?


----------



## btarunr (Jan 21, 2009)

Catalyst 9.1 WHQL should have been out by now. The last I heard, it was supposed to release on 19th. Facing delays.


----------



## zads (Jan 21, 2009)

Stop your whining!


I work for a major North American master distributor (we distribute to newegg, best buy, OEMs, etc,.)..

I've seen this ATI presentation in person (by Powercolor, Sapphire, and Asus), 
and I've seen Nvidia's video card partners make similar presentations for their products. 

Guess what? It's called marketing. Deal with it.


----------



## 3870x2 (Jan 21, 2009)

zads said:


> Stop your whining!
> 
> 
> I work for a major North American master distributor (we distribute to newegg, best buy, OEMs, etc,.)..
> ...



sounds about right...


----------



## PCpraiser100 (Jan 21, 2009)

its true,

Its all thanks to the GDDR5 and the extra couple-hundred megabytes of memory. Nvidia fans are tough to explain  I WAS RIGHT.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 21, 2009)

Just remember NV awhile ago used the same exact tactic first stating their cards were better than the 4830 and that was untrue. Its just marketing, they sling mud at eachother and to call either side flawless is untrue.



The Witcher said:


> god damn
> 
> I never knew that AMD were so stupid like that.
> 
> ...


----------



## Evo85 (Jan 21, 2009)

Weer said:


> Wow, that's just cheap.
> 
> They purposefully set Crysis @ 2560x1600 with 4xAA, knowing that at exactly that setting the GTX 295 crumbles only because of memory capacity, and then yell at our faces bluntly provoking the lie that the 4870X2 is better.
> 
> Simply unbelievable.



Because it is better at those settings. You just said it yourself.


----------



## Nyte (Jan 21, 2009)

So many NV fanboys jumping on the flame-AMD-wagon here...  I'm referring to the first 10 or so replies to this thread.

Please grow some brains and understand this is called "Marketing".

And also understand that this was done at a resolution+detail level which NV cannot cope with currently.

But I guess if you care about your GTX295 owning a 4870x2 at 1280x1024 0xAA and 0xAF, then that's your loss, not everyone else's.


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm pretty impressed at everyone making fun of ATI. I agree it is pretty comical, but really I have seen this from both sides/


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 21, 2009)

PCpraiser100 said:


> its true,
> 
> Its all thanks to the GDDR5 and the extra couple-hundred megabytes of memory. Nvidia fans are tough to explain  I WAS RIGHT.



I would be very surprised, in a non synthetic everyday user envoirnment if either amounts of texture memory would ever be fully utilised to be honest....


----------



## CDdude55 (Jan 21, 2009)

There both ok, pretty dumb argument IMO.

Its always a good thing when one of them release a new card, brings the competition, either way the consumers win.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 21, 2009)

Nyte said:


> So many NV fanboys jumping on the flame-AMD-wagon here...  I'm referring to the first 10 or so replies to this thread.
> 
> Please grow some brains and understand this is called "Marketing".
> 
> ...



They probably do, i would guess that 1280 makes up the bulk of worldwide users, closely followed by 16xx...... sad thing is, there probably are people with 19 inch monitors (who dont bench) who actually by these cards.

personally, I like marketing, it always adds a little humour to things!


----------



## rozienzia (Jan 21, 2009)

thins x24870 still the strongest monster..


----------



## spearman914 (Jan 21, 2009)

Evo85 said:


> Because it is better at those settings. You just said it yourself.



Yea, that's his point. 4870x2 only beat 295 because it has higher vram. In most situations gtx295 beats it because a lot of people do 1650 x 1080 and 1920 x 1200 which the 295 will perform better.


----------



## leonard_222003 (Jan 21, 2009)

There is one more thing to say
cheapest gtx295 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=GTX295&bop=And&Order=PRICE
499$
cheapest 4870x2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=4870x2&bop=And&Order=PRICE
399$ after rebate
So , does it worth 100$ more the gtx295 ?


----------



## Polarman (Jan 21, 2009)

This sums it up!


----------



## kysg (Jan 21, 2009)

meh enthusiast segment is out of control both cards do the job pretty well anyways, it's what else do you need for them to brand a car logo badge on it???? or shove 80 billion cores on the thing to where its so big it sits outside your box hooked up via external solution and a massive 30gb frame buffer on the widest bus known to man???

and on a side note, I wish both sides would just chill and hit a bong or something because I see one side flaming over marketing and I see a whole nother side whining about how this is done all the time, well thats craptastic man and when your done shoving big bold letters in my face about how this is marketing I'd like to get back to the point. /rant sorry shouldn't have went on irritated rant.   gotta watch a polish film in a few minutes.


----------



## pabloc74 (Jan 21, 2009)

zads said:


> Stop your whining!
> 
> 
> I work for a major North American master distributor (we distribute to newegg, best buy, OEMs, etc,.)..
> ...



of course my friend, but that doesn't mean that we don't know who is better



leonard_222003 said:


> There is one more thing to say
> cheapest gtx295 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Description=GTX295&bop=And&Order=PRICE
> 499$
> cheapest 4870x2
> ...



you don't pay 100$ more for best performance only, remember the power comp and heat, 4870x2 requires more power supply and make more heat


----------



## lemonadesoda (Jan 21, 2009)

Marketing? You mean bullshit!

Marketing is one thing. Disingenuous truths and misrepresenting data to trick (an uninformed) consumer is another matter.

We sang ATI's praises when they released the earth stomping RV770. Now we sing for ATI to hold its head in shame.


----------



## zads (Jan 21, 2009)

lemonadesoda said:


> Marketing? You mean bullshit!



Is there really a difference? 
Trust me, I know the results are skewed. 
I'm just saying that all marketing is skewed, and you shouldn't be surprised at it.


----------



## CDdude55 (Jan 21, 2009)

zads said:


> I hate when people criticize people who use huge bold text.
> They try to sound smart when they can't even use simple spelling/semantics.
> I don't know everything, but I do know way more about the industry than most of the people on here.



Dude, i really don't care if i spelled something wrong or not, this isn't english class. And i never called myself smart, i just stated an opinion on what i dislike about that text which was not directed towards you only, it was in general. If you know more then me and everyone else about Industy...well congrats is all i can say.


----------



## DRDNA (Jan 21, 2009)

you hate.........well I love when ATI NV battle it out! Its all part of the game of benching and overclocking ! I love it when I am on top (oh ya do I ) and I am humbled and second guess my buying choices when I am on the bottum .... lol it friggin great ! Friggin aswsome actually ....we battle each other over 3FPS we push are ram ,we puch are CPU's , we push our GPU's , we raid like crazy our harddrives all in the hopes of just a few more FPS or just a couple more points ......shoot friends I have purchaced games that are said to be hardware killers for $50 just to see how bad it may or may not humble my hardware ... i have lost OS's and memory and mobo's and the likes just looking for another FPS another few points ....Come on folks if NV and fans didnt oppose ATI and fans the battles wouldnt be any where near as fun ....most of are competeing one way or another (at least I am ) ....So ya bring on the marcketing crap ,bring on the hype , bring on the early release sample reviews ...oh ya baby just bring it ! okay put your dukes up cuz I am gunning for you


----------



## zithe (Jan 21, 2009)

This kind of marketing has gone on since before we all (most of us, at least) were born and both companies do it. Who cares? Some radio companies from almost a century ago would boast how many vacuum tubes a radio had. Some weren't connected at all, or two of the same tube would share the load. I don't doubt it went on earlier, too. 

As long as there's an 80 dollar price difference, I'd say the 4870x2 has a better price/performance ratio. I know that's not much, but who really cares if BOTH cards can render frames faster than the human eye can see, and one does 10-15 frames more? That's not worth the 80 dollars more yet, and probably never will be.


----------



## iStink (Jan 21, 2009)

EVEREYBODY kNOWS THAT THE NVEDIA IS BETTER CARD THAN thE ATI.

Here's an idea:  Never listen to nvidia or ati tell you how their cards perform.  Let an unbiased review site do that for you.

Honestly, stop going so ape shit over something like this.  All these dorks here who are like, "OH EM GEE THEY ARE LIARS" need to grow up.

The main difference between genius and stupidity is genius has it's limits.


----------



## Noggrin (Jan 21, 2009)

Marketing? LOL, marketing is one thing, dishonesty is another..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dishonesty

So yeah, we wont stop "bitching" cos liars deserves whats coming to them..


----------



## erocker (Jan 21, 2009)

Warnings have been handed out to those who cannot stay on topic.  Infractions are next.  There is no discussion of this matter, stay on topic or don't post.  That includes "quoting" this post.  STAY ON TOPIC.


----------



## r9 (Jan 21, 2009)

Same old new shit.


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 21, 2009)

spearman914 said:


> Yea, that's his point. *4870x2 only beat 295 because it has higher vram*. In most situations gtx295 beats it because a lot of people do 1650 x 1080 and 1920 x 1200 which the 295 will perform better.




It does?

Anyone can explain why NV cards go limp at 2*** res? other than the above explanation


----------



## zithe (Jan 21, 2009)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> It does?
> 
> Anyone can explain why NV cards go limp at 2*** res? other than the above explanation



4870x2 (1024 x 2 ) vs. GTX 295 (896 x 2)


----------



## CDdude55 (Jan 21, 2009)

Well, GTX 295 is still in the 1GB range while 4870 X2 is 2GB, they should both fair well at high res, but i guess certain apps that really need VRAM will favor the 4870 X2.


----------



## leonard_222003 (Jan 21, 2009)

Even those who choose a side they still buy the best card for the money they want to spend. (unlles they are very very stupid and fat/Tv raised/unemployed/tipical sit on his ass american)
I like Ati more but i had a lot of Nvidia cards latetly because Ati didn't delivered anything good and i will buy Nvidia again if it proves to be better.
Now trough all the smoke and mirrors Nvidia throws there is little intrest for the buyer of low end and mainstream graphics cards that Ati or Nvidia has the best card , what is most important is what can i get at 50$ or 100$ or 150$ , how much perf. and goodies to make my experience on my computer better (watching movies , playing games ..... etc.).
For me at this time Ati delivered better than Nvidia because is cheaper and has the same or better perf. , maybe next time Nvidia will be better.


----------



## kid41212003 (Jan 21, 2009)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> It acts as 1 GB



That's why I wrote *1GBx2*.


----------



## Marineborn (Jan 21, 2009)

anybody that is a fanboy is gonna find a reason to defend there card. i mean come on these cards the 4870x2 and the gtx295 are just redicuously powerfull. i mean what is the reason for this much power. LOL!!! i dont care they stay in competition make stuff cheaper for me. win win. i look forward to anything ati and nvidia do, keep advancing technology i want some sweet stuff


----------



## mxvolta (Jan 21, 2009)

*what if?*

what if I (or any) made this images in my laptop... you know 15 mins of search/copy/paste-google-magic??

have anyone tought of that? i mean everybody is taking sides here... cmon you can't be so naive and think this MUST be legitimate... just saying


----------



## DaJMasta (Jan 21, 2009)

kid41212003 said:


> They used the highest resolution which is the weak point of GTX 295, because of its limited memory vs 1GBx2 of ATI cards.
> 
> I think this is believable.



I agree, I don't think they'd outright lie, but the definitely cherry picked benchmarks and settings to show their cards in the most positive light.

The DX10.1 shadow thing is interesting, but I'm still on XP


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 21, 2009)

goodlord . . . the amount of fanboish dribble that's been spewed in this thread . . . not just from the nVidia fanbois, but the ATI fanbois as well . . . :shadedshu

(and why is it these kinds of news articles seem to draw them out of the woodwork like fumigating a termite-infested home?)



anyhow - so nVidia has managed to steal the crown for a short while with the GTX 295 . . . and ATI release some slides that try to claim some kind of hold on it . . . well, all things considered - at least they waited until _after_ the new nVidia card was on the market - unlike the green camp's tactics which usually call for blasting ATI before _their_ cards are on the shelf (like nVidia has special, insider access to ATI's newest beasts )

So - for all those willing to go rush out and grab a 295 . . . please keep in mind that nVidia pretty-much had their asses handed back to them throughout the last half of 2008 . . . and ATI does have a new beast in the works as well (one that seems to have completely confounded most of us in terms of it's specs, and what it will be capable of) . . . it's quite possible that 2, 3, maybe 4 or 5 months from now, nVidia will completely lose the performance crown again . . .

. . . and people will still be crying that nVidia's hardware is better, that people purchasing ATI don't know what they're doing . . .

. . . and never give credit for the fact that if ATI hadn't gotten back on the ball last year - you'd be paying $900+ for that spanking-new GTX 295, instead of the $500 it's at right now.


So - all things considered . . . quitcher bitchin.


----------



## Noggrin (Jan 22, 2009)

imperialreign said:


> please keep in mind that nVidia pretty-much had their asses handed back to them throughout the last half of 2008



Yeah, and ATI had their asses handed to them in for 2 years.. whats your point?



imperialreign said:


> ATI does have a new beast in the works as well (one that seems to have completely confounded most of us in terms of it's specs, and what it will be capable of) . . . it's quite possible that 2, 3, maybe 4 or 5 months from now, nVidia will completely lose the performance crown again . . .



And then nVidia will get out with new card and then ATI and then.. ... ... .... ... ... 



imperialreign said:


> and never give credit for the fact that if ATI hadn't gotten back on the ball last year - you'd be paying $900+ for that spanking-new GTX 295, instead of the $500 it's at right now.



I really love this one.. 

What this have to do with the fact that ATI are clearly lying and misleading people in this slides?


----------



## CDdude55 (Jan 22, 2009)

There obviously not going to put up slides saying there card fails up against the GTX 295. Just depends what you like or prefer.


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 22, 2009)

Noggrin said:


> Yeah, and ATI had their asses handed to them in for 2 years.. whats your point?



and 2 years prior, nVidia was getting reamed by ATI - it's a friggin cycle, and will continue to be that way.

My point was for all the fanbois that are screaming the 295 is the "be-all, end-all," like nVidia hasn't had it rough for the last 7+ months.



> I really love this one..
> 
> What this have to do with the fact that ATI are clearly lying and misleading people in this slides?



it's somewhat of a first for ATI . . . keep in mind nVidia has a real bad habit of pulling these kinds of stunts . . . they've been more than notorious for it in the past, so much so that most people come to expect it from the green camp - nevermind the fact that nVidia has been re-stickering their low-end and mid-range cards for the last 2 gens.

God forbid ATI fight nVidia on their battlefield, right? - in all honesty, that's proven more beneficial for them over the last year than trying to keep a clean shirt.

But, hey, if you like paying $900 for a card, just for the e-peen and richie-boy braggin' rights . . . keep hoping that ATI will fall back to the rut they were in for 2 years due to the AMD+ATI merger.  I'd much rather spend $900 on two cards that handle a heavier workload better.


----------



## DaJMasta (Jan 22, 2009)

Noggrin said:


> What this have to do with the fact that ATI are clearly lying and misleading people in this slides?



Do you have proof of lying?

I'm convinced if they lied they would be ratted out and suffer severely in the press for it, they're certainly misleading people by cherry picking benchmarks and settings, but I wouldn't say they are lying unless you have some proof.


I think if you consult benchmarks with very similar settings in the same games, you may get similar results.  That all being said, they also may be using beta drivers or old nVidia drivers in an effort to make their products look better.... but the 4870 X2 is a solid competitor and I doubt they really need it.


----------



## Woody112 (Jan 22, 2009)

Noggrin said:


> What this have to do with the fact that ATI are clearly lying and misleading people in this slides?



ATI isn't lying about anything, if you look at the screen resolution you'll see that they are comparing cards at 2560x1600 w/8xAA. We all know that the 295 wins the crown at standard resolution. However this doesn't change the fact that ATI/AMD isn't lying they are just simply not showing the full truth.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 22, 2009)

CDdude55 said:


> Well install TF2 at work and play that.



yup then you lose your job which in turn makes you sell your computer because you cant afford to have it.


----------



## CDdude55 (Jan 22, 2009)

eidairaman1 said:


> yup then you lose your job which in turn makes you sell your computer because you cant afford to have it.



lol, true, well then Quake Live it is.(can quickly x it out or keep it out of view)


----------



## Noggrin (Jan 22, 2009)

imperialreign said:


> it's somewhat of a first for ATI



Its not like it makes it any better..



imperialreign said:


> keep in mind nVidia has a real bad habit of pulling these kinds of stunts



Really? When? Can you back up that with links or something?



imperialreign said:


> nevermind the fact that nVidia has been re-stickering their low-end and mid-range cards for the last 2 gens.



Again, what this has to do with anything in this topic?



imperialreign said:


> God forbid ATI fight nVidia on their battlefield, right?



Nah, but 'god' should forbid right down lies..



imperialreign said:


> But, hey, if you like paying $900 for a card, just for the e-peen and richie-boy braggin' rights . . . keep hoping that ATI will fall back to the rut they were in for 2 years due to the AMD+ATI merger.  I'd much rather spend $900 on two cards that handle a heavier workload better.



Again, what this has to do with anything? Or you just like making things up for no good reason? Yeah, i see u are amd/ati fanboy, i should have known.. what a waste of time..


----------



## erocker (Jan 22, 2009)

I've already left a warning in this thread.  If any of you want infractions take a look at the post above mine.


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 22, 2009)

Noggrin said:


> Really? When? Can you back up that with links or something?



There is more than enough information abounding the internet in regards to nVidia posting misleading, or grossly disproportionate marketing propoganda that I'm not going to further muddy up this thread worse than it already is.

The fact of the matter, presenting one-sided marketing slides is just general business in the tch industry.  nVidia has done it for years, Intel has done it for years, MS and MAC have done it for years - it's only recently that AMD and ATI have done so.

There's no point in getting out the torches and nooses for the red camp over a few "_somewhat_ misleading" marketing slides . . . at the very least they've presented somewhat factual information, from a point of view to help bolster their position in the market . . . I can't find anything at fault for that . . . no one company in their right mind is going to release marketing propaganda and advertisements that try to sell their product from a point of view that makes _their_ product appear to be the _worst_ choice . . . that's a basic rule of marketing and advertising.

Again, I stress the point that although these slides are _somewhat_ misleading - I don't see how ATI is lying to try and continue sale of their products against nVidia's newest release.




> Again, what this has to do with anything in this topic?



it has just as much to do about the arguements I was making, as it does to the whole "topic" this thread has delved in to - if you wanted one example of nVidia pulling mis-leading marketing . . . that's my one example right there.





> Nah, but 'god' should forbid right down lies..



I have absoultely nothing to say on this :shadedshu




> Again, what this has to do with anything? Or you just like making things up for no good reason? Yeah, i see u are amd/ati fanboy, i should have known.. what a waste of time..



it's not making things up - and if you've taken the time to read many of the posts I've made in these forums, I'm not an ATI fanboi . . . a supporter, yes, but there's a difference.  Just becuase any one user on this site, or any tech site, has hardware from one specific manufacturer or vendor does not necessarily make them a fanboi.  Jumping to such a conclusion is, IMHO, a good sign that someone has no real point to make, and has no ability to back up their arguments or continue a discussion in an adult and civilized manner . . . and that only leads to flamming and infractions.

I'm sure of which I'll probably get one myself after this post . . . but . . .




erocker said:


> I've already left a warning in this thread.  If any of you want infractions take a look at the post above mine.




. . . sorry, erocker, I had too.


. . . and now I'll take my leave of this thread.


----------



## Frizz (Jan 22, 2009)

I don't think there's an argument here. Its a marketing plan, the 2 GPU's are both beasts in its own ways and they both have done this before and probably over 50% of other companies as well. Example? Duracell VS Energizer, what? they both compare their longest lasting batteries to the opposing sides' "Standard" batteries, do the math. 

Its obvious gtx 295 crumbles at max resolution with AA turned on, AMD isn't just gonna sit there and do nothing about the gtx295 pwning them everywhere else, they are still going to go with a marketing campaign to attract more consumers to their product and maintain sales. If not, they may as well give up on the 4870x2 which obviously ain't gonna happen.

Its all good competition, don't see why you guys are arguing about such childish things and ignore the fact that the once performance crown holder have reduced their prices, meaning more people on a budget are a little closer to getting one of the latest and greatest.

Its win-win for everyone -.- .......


----------



## btarunr (Jan 22, 2009)

mxvolta said:


> what if I (or any) made this images in my laptop... you know 15 mins of search/copy/paste-google-magic??
> 
> have anyone tought of that? i mean everybody is taking sides here... cmon you can't be so naive and think this MUST be legitimate... just saying



They are. You should look at NV's most recent presentation. That will make you proud of your 8 yo's Powerpoint skills.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 22, 2009)

BTA i hope you see what has happened with your topic here bro, what a mess it has become, all within an hour it seems.


----------



## btarunr (Jan 22, 2009)

eidairaman1 said:


> BTA i hope you see what has happened with your topic here bro, what a mess it has become, all within an hour it seems.



I can read  

My previous post was 100% on topic: answering someone who thinks the slides are fake. As for some of the posts, you're lucky it was another moderator who babysat this thread.


----------



## Laurijan (Jan 22, 2009)

iStink said:


> EVEREYBODY kNOWS THAT THE NVEDIA IS BETTER CARD THAN thE ATI.
> 
> Here's an idea:  Never listen to nvidia or ati tell you how their cards perform.  Let an unbiased review site do that for you.
> 
> ...



Aparently AMD doesnt


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 22, 2009)

larijan, enough don't try to add more fuel to the fire, read the most current post that Erocker had to say, you may want to think twice what you post k.


----------



## Laurijan (Jan 22, 2009)

Ok i keep my opinion to myself


----------



## Hayder_Master (Jan 22, 2009)

i swear i say this before when gtx295 come , i say 4870x2 beat gtx295 in extreme resolution or high resolution with full AA , cuz only high gddr5 can handle this


----------



## Binge (Jan 22, 2009)

hayder.master said:


> i swear i say this before when gtx295 come , i say 4870x2 beat gtx295 in extreme resolution or high resolution with full AA , cuz only high gddr5 can handle this



Back then that sounded wrong and now that still sounds wrong.  What kind of person needs 8xAA at max resolution???


----------



## Hayder_Master (Jan 22, 2009)

Binge said:


> Back then that sounded wrong and now that still sounds wrong.  What kind of person needs 8xAA at max resolution???



me as first one , maybe there is no different in quality but we can say there is some kind like you want run the game everything on max sitting , with new games (games use high details like crysis) , you see different , and for me there is no comparing between 2 card's in FPS when the FPS for booth of them go over 35 FPS ,so if you run crysis on gtx295 using mid resolution and you got 70 FPS and 4870x2 got 60 FPS sure there is no better performance here, but with 2500 resolution using gtx295 and you got 25 FPS and the 4870x2 got 35 FPS now there is different in performance


----------



## iamverysmart (Jan 22, 2009)

hayder.master said:


> i swear i say this before when gtx295 come , i say 4870x2 beat gtx295 in extreme resolution or high resolution with full AA , cuz only high gddr5 can handle this


GDDR5? GDDR5 is only one part of the memory subsystem. The RAM alone doesn't determine squat.


----------



## iamverysmart (Jan 22, 2009)

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/09-01-21/150j.jpg
The memory comparision's are just wrong. One is using crossfire, making it in reality only 1GB

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/09-01-21/150e.jpg
They mention RAM bandwidth but what about the controller width?
Also who would use 8xAA?

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/09-01-21/150b.jpg
There are 1GB and 512MB 9800GTX+'s which they fail to mention.

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/09-01-21/150c.jpg
Their definition of "Top games" seems to fail to me. By what do they mean by top? Those games aren't the top(most popular) games of today.


----------



## Frizz (Jan 22, 2009)

honestly it would be quite hard to choose between a 4870x2 or gtx295 the two don't exactly fall in the same price range anymore, but yes thank god I'm into mid range cards sub 200-300AUD instead of 700 - 1000AUD. Both cards are overkill and goddamn I wish I had one.


----------



## jcfougere (Jan 22, 2009)

Q Q


----------



## EvilOne (Jan 22, 2009)

I remember the pre-NDA agrement for reviews on the 295, they MUST include a listed 5 games (which nvida already ran better on).

This sample of benchmarks is no worse then that was.


Its clear that ATI have selected very few games, and even fewer res/aa/af settings to show the benchmarks for. Only the ones that beat nvidia infact (*shock horror*). I think these benchmarks are as honest as every other review site out there.

So what if the 4870x2 outperforms the 295 for less money on a few things, its hardly unexpected or lies. The 295 does outperperform on almost every other test, which is what you would expect at its price point.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 22, 2009)

Binge said:


> Back then that sounded wrong and now that still sounds wrong.  What kind of person needs 8xAA at max resolution???



Spot on, you dont need ANY AA at max res, even at 19xx my very old eyes cannot tell any difference between 2x and 4x.

As for the presentation, of course it's not lies, it's just very "selective" in it's information for a reason we all understand, whether we like it or not is another thing, personally I dont like it, not because i prefer one card or the other but because being "selective" with marketing and information of course can be misleading, it's like going to buy a car that is marketed as having the most powerful engine on the planet, but when you go to collect it....you find it has no wheels!


----------



## EviLZeD (Jan 22, 2009)

Nvidia makes presentations like these too so i dont see why Ati shouldn't


----------



## steelkane (Jan 22, 2009)

113 post on this news, fuel for there fire.


----------



## nemesis.ie (Jan 22, 2009)

I disagree - I CAN see differences at 2560x1600 on my 30".

It is especially beneficial when there is foliage that you are moving through, e.g. much less "shimmer" from the trees as you pan or move past.

The same goes for wire-link fences, power lines, tree branches and such "fine" lines.


----------



## phanbuey (Jan 22, 2009)

nemesis.ie said:


> I disagree - I CAN see differences at 2560x1600 on my 30".
> 
> It is especially beneficial when there is foliage that you are moving through, e.g. much less "shimmer" from the trees as you pan or move past.
> 
> The same goes for wire-link fences, power lines, tree branches and such "fine" lines.



Youre talking about transperancy anti-aliasing... normal AA doesn't touch foliage and wire link fences.


----------



## zads (Jan 22, 2009)

Tatty_One said:


> Spot on, you dont need ANY AA at max res, even at 19xx my very old eyes cannot tell any difference between 2x and 4x.
> 
> As for the presentation, of course it's not lies, it's just very "selective" in it's information for a reason we all understand, whether we like it or not is another thing, personally I dont like it, not because i prefer one card or the other but because being "selective" with marketing and information of course can be misleading, it's like going to buy a car that is marketed as having the most powerful engine on the planet, but when you go to collect it....you find it has no wheels!



I'd say the differences in AA are minimal, 
and not noticeable in regular gameplay, 
unless you going slow and looking for the differences.


But like I said before, these screenshots are simple marketing 101.. 
You should only show your own product's positives/benefits over the competition.
For example,
Are you ever going to see a Nissan 350Z car commercial that says:
"The 350Z has more engine horsepower than a Porsche Cayman S.. 
The 350Z costs $8,000 less than the Cayman S..
The 350Z brakes aren't as good and have worse stopping distance than the Porsche Cayman S.." 
Never.


----------



## phanbuey (Jan 22, 2009)

zads said:


> ...
> "The 350Z has more engine horsepower than a Porsche Cayman S..
> The 350Z costs $8,000 less than the Cayman S..
> The 350Z brakes aren't as good and have worse stopping distance than the Porsche Cayman S.."
> Never.



  I was waiting for a good car analogy.


----------



## 3870x2 (Jan 22, 2009)

Binge said:


> Back then that sounded wrong and now that still sounds wrong.  What kind of person needs 8xAA at max resolution???



actually, at 1920x1200, with a 24 inch monitor, it is very important.  Believe me, i own one.  That is, unless you are legally blind.
The differences are definitely not minimal, and very noticeable in regular gameplay, for me atleast.


----------



## zithe (Jan 22, 2009)

I use a 1080i TV and it looks awful without AA in games.


----------



## DarkMatter (Jan 22, 2009)

zads said:


> I'd say the differences in AA are minimal,
> and not noticeable in regular gameplay,
> unless you going slow and looking for the differences.
> 
> ...



I agree but IMHO Ati just went one step further into misleading marketing. Nvidia also went one step further with their latest ones. I think that Ati/Nvidia are so submerged into competition that they also have to compete for the most outrageous marketing BS. They are still somehow far from pure BS, but it won't take to long at the actual rate. Whenever Ati takes the performance crown again, Nvidia will release their contender for the BS competition, and so will Ati when Nvidia is on top again, they just can't let the other have both crowns at the same time!!


----------



## ShogoXT (Jan 22, 2009)

This kind of marketing doesnt bother me. From Nvidia too. A company will always try to say they are the "industry leader" if you ask them. The Nvidia renaming is kinda weird to me, but oh well.

The only marketing that gets me anymore is Apple's Mac vs PC marketing. The apple customers will come in your face and spout it at you even if its not true. Kinda anoyying.


----------



## wolf (Jan 22, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> Sorry ATi, no matter how you spin it, when impartial independant people analyze your products, your top end Dual-Core solution is matched by nVidia's Single-Core solution.
> 
> How about you stop putting so much money into BS marketing, and actually come out with a competitive product, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to do this.  Not a product that matches last generation's products from your competitor, an actual competitive product.  I'm being totally serious here, I really want ATi to start competiting.  The consumer needs competition at the highest level.  You have put out such great products in the past, and RV770 was a step in the right direction, but not a big enough step.  And now, to top everything off, your letting your drivers degrade.  I expect so much more.



+1 to a degree....

RV770 was more than a step in the right direction, it forced the market to change, and god bless it for that.

bottom line is, no matter what spin you put on it, Wiz's review clearly shows whats what.


----------



## iStink (Jan 22, 2009)

WOW That's impressive!  Way to go ATI!  I think I know which brand I'LL be buying next!


----------



## wolf (Jan 22, 2009)

and this one, which i believe is probably THE most popular res/settings for this level of card.

and remember what newtekie said, ATi's 2 GPU solution is being matched by a single GPU, which has a lower MSRP at the moment.

their market control is going well i think, their fastest single card par's ATi's best, and the 295 is a cut above.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 22, 2009)

Sega can do what Nintendon't


----------



## zithe (Jan 22, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Sega can do what Nintendon't



LOL.

This isn't any different than what normally goes on.


----------



## jinu (Jan 22, 2009)

EvilOne said:


> I remember the pre-NDA agrement for reviews on the 295, they MUST include a listed 5 games (which nvida already ran better on).
> 
> This sample of benchmarks is no worse then that was.
> 
> ...



Wouldnt ATI and Nvidia list games they run better on...i mean of course they would, but think of it. How many games are there that both of them cant really handle..


----------



## EvilOne (Jan 23, 2009)

exactly my point.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 23, 2009)

jinu said:


> Wouldnt ATI and Nvidia list games they run better on...i mean of course they would, but think of it. How many games are there that both of them cant really handle..



Yes, thats why the sensible thing is to use reviews as ONLY an "aid" to deciding what card to buy, specifically how it performs with the games you play, unless you are a bench junkie, why would anyone but a Gfx card for say predominantly COD World at war at say $400 that gives them 95 FPS rather than a $200 card that gives them 70FPS, there will be no visible difference.....apart from in the wallet.


----------



## lepra24 (Jan 23, 2009)

Go AMD & ATI GO


----------



## Castiel (Jan 23, 2009)

lepra24 said:


> Go AMD & ATI GO



Amen


----------



## Tatty_One (Jan 23, 2009)

lepra24 said:


> Go AMD & ATI GO



Go where?


----------



## Hayder_Master (Jan 25, 2009)

iamverysmart said:


> GDDR5? GDDR5 is only one part of the memory subsystem. The RAM alone doesn't determine squat.



sure i know  , but this is best part and first part on the list


----------



## pabloc74 (Jan 26, 2009)

Tatty_One said:


> Go where?



go to the recycle bin


----------



## iamverysmart (Jan 26, 2009)

hayder.master said:


> sure i know  , but this is best part and first part on the list


Whether it's the first part or the last part, the RAM's speed is still irrelevant because it is only PART of the memory subsystem.

It's like saying someone is attractive by only looking at their toe nails.


----------



## pabloc74 (Feb 1, 2009)

honestly with 295 i have to say that i note more performance in a lot of games, and i note too that the fps don't down when the power is needed, thats not happened with 4870x2, in certains moments of the game when requieres the max power of the vga i saw the lowest fps. so, in my experience i have to say that the 295 don't have the low-down of the fps

PD: 295 less power comp, less heat and less noise


----------



## trickson (Feb 1, 2009)

I hope that I can add some thing to this with out getting mixed up in all this . I hope that you will not take it as I am being a fanboy or any thing . But I have read this thread and one thing I can say is this is just a marketing ploy the people that are at the store will pick this box up and look at it they will not look at the reviews that show things in a different light . they will say wow this thing rocks ! take it to the register and buy it up . 
All I see is a marketing ploy to get you to buy up this and look at the colors and the fan fare on the box too . Eye catching attractive almost hypnotic great effort on AMD's part to seduce you to buy there product . Again I hope I am on topic I hope I will not get you all mad at me for this .


----------



## DarkMatter (Feb 2, 2009)

trickson said:


> I hope that I can add some thing to this with out getting mixed up in all this . I hope that you will not take it as I am being a fanboy or any thing . But I have read this thread and one thing I can say is this is just a marketing ploy the people that are at the store will pick this box up and look at it they will not look at the reviews that show things in a different light . they will say wow this thing rocks ! take it to the register and buy it up .
> All I see is a marketing ploy to get you to buy up this and look at the colors and the fan fare on the box too . Eye catching attractive almost hypnotic great effort on AMD's part to seduce you to buy there product . Again I hope I am on topic I hope I will not get you all mad at me for this .



This is not for the end customer, it's for AIB vendors and partners, but you got the idea pretty well. This is probably what AMD showed XFX before they started doing AMD cards.


----------



## spearman914 (Feb 2, 2009)

jinu said:


> Wouldnt ATI and Nvidia list games they run better on...i mean of course they would, but think of it. How many games are there that both of them cant really handle..



Probably 2, GTA IV and Crysis warheads. No single card can play them at 1920 x 1080 w/ 4x aa playable framerates like 50-60fps.


----------



## trickson (Feb 2, 2009)

Hi Again I hope that I am not being a fan boy or any thing but when I look at the "scores" they have listed then look at the reviews done on X-bit Labs I can honestly say WTF?? I mean there is nothing to back up there claims . Or am I just being a fanboy ? Am I missing some thing ? Or just being to stupid ? 
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/evga-geforce-gtx295.html

Maybe I am just being a stupid fanboy right ?


----------



## spearman914 (Feb 2, 2009)

trickson said:


> Hi Again I hope that I am not being a fan boy or any thing but when I look at the "scores" they have listed then look at the reviews done on X-bit Labs I can honestly say WTF?? I mean there is nothing to back up there claims . Or am I just being a fanboy ? Am I missing some thing ? Or just being to stupid ?
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/evga-geforce-gtx295.html
> 
> Maybe I am just being a stupid fanboy right ?



Somethings fuckin wrong, but all seem about right.


----------



## trickson (Feb 2, 2009)

spearman914 said:


> Somethings fuckin wrong, but all seem about right.



So I am wrong and being a fanboy ? Ok sorry about that . later .


----------



## erocker (Feb 2, 2009)

Somebody needs a vacation.  Enough is enough.


----------



## Tatty_One (Feb 2, 2009)

erocker said:


> Somebody needs a vacation.  Enough is enough.



That will be me then.....next week in the Canary Isle's for a week..... a bit of AMD/Nvidia...less Winter Sun.


----------

