# Friend wanting to build a gaming computer



## BarbaricSoul (May 1, 2019)

Friend of mine was asking me last night about building a gaming computer for him. I know Zen2 is being released in a couple months, but I don't know if he wants to wait or not. So this is what I'm looking at for him as of right now. I'm looking for suggestions to save some money on the price without sacrificing performance. He needs a full system (tower, monitor,KB, and OS). Looking to build a system that will not need to be upgraded for at least 3 years.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XFz2P3


----------



## kastriot (May 1, 2019)

Excellent, excellent you made great combo, he will be very happy gammer.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (May 1, 2019)

Not bad, nowt wrong with a 9700k+RTX2070. Though I have to say don't pay $100 for win 10 when you can buy a oem key for $15


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 1, 2019)

tigger said:


> Not bad, nowt wrong with a 9700k+RTX2070. Though I have to say don't pay $100 for win 10 when you can buy a oem key for $15



OEM key for $15? Share your info man.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 1, 2019)

If anything, maybe look at an NVMe SSD? The WD Blue you picked is SATA and is going to look a bit sad in three years time. HP EX920 maybe, or even the EX950?
Get a Windows 10 copy from TPU's offer and you've saved more money than the cost difference for the drive. Most recent one here I think https://www.techpowerup.com/253403/save-big-on-software-costs-with-cdkoffers


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 1, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> If anything, maybe look at an NVMe SSD? The WD Blue you picked is SATA and is going to look a bit sad in three years time. HP EX920 maybe, or even the EX950?
> Get a Windows 10 copy from TPU's offer and you've saved more money than the cost difference for the drive.



the SSD is a M2 2280 drive, that's not NVMe?


----------



## CJCerny (May 1, 2019)

All good choices, but have you also given your friend the low end options? You can easily pick up a used i5 Dell for less than $200. Add a $100 1050 and you are technically "gaming" too.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 1, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> the SSD is a M2 2280 drive, that's not NVMe?


No, M.2 supports SATA and NVMe, the one you picked is SATA.

You might want to consider a screen with higher refresh rate as well, at least something better than 60Hz, as a lot of "gamers" prefer that.


----------



## Chomiq (May 1, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> the SSD is a M2 2280 drive, that's not NVMe?


 
https://www.wd.com/products/internal-ssd/wd-blue-3d-nand-sata-ssd.html

Does he really need a case with a 5.25 inch bays? I mean, it's a $100 case, there are other options out there with TG instead of scratchy plexiglass.


----------



## EarthDog (May 1, 2019)

Ask him if he wants to wait...its your job as the more knowledgeable one helping. If not, we know and can build.

Budget?



BarbaricSoul said:


> OEM key for $15? Share your info man.


TPU has been advertising this for months.... 



TheLostSwede said:


> , M.2 supports SATA and NVMe, the one you picked is SATA.


+1

M.2 is the socket/port. The drive themselves can use SATA protocols or NVMe.


----------



## phanbuey (May 1, 2019)

I would be careful about that case.  Very few people (that arent enthusiasts) love gigantic cases.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 1, 2019)

CJCerny said:


> All good choices, but have you also given your friend the low end options? You can easily pick up a used i5 Dell for less than $200. Add a $100 1050 and you are technically "gaming" too.



I did mention something about using used parts, he didn't seem to be to happy with the idea.



TheLostSwede said:


> No, M.2 supports SATA and NVMe, the one you picked is SATA.
> 
> You might want to consider a screen with higher refresh rate as well, at least something better than 60Hz, as a lot of "gamers" prefer that.



I see now.

He currently games on a PS4, and doesn't have an issue with that.



Chomiq said:


> https://www.wd.com/products/internal-ssd/wd-blue-3d-nand-sata-ssd.html
> 
> Does he really need a case with a 5.25 inch bays? I mean, it's a $100 case, there are other options out there with TG instead of scratchy plexiglass.



The case is really just a place holder in the build. IMHO, personal preference is just as important as air flow when it comes to picking a case. The actual case for the build will be one he picks out with my help.



EarthDog said:


> Ask him if he wants to wait...its your job as the more knowledgeable one helping. If not, we know and can build.
> 
> Budget?
> 
> ...



I'll ask

Budget isn't really set. The guy has the money to afford a 9900k/2080ti/30" 4k system. He was thinking this would cost around $5k to build a decent gaming computer.

Hadn't seen anything about the Windows keys some how. I normally don't look at the home page much.

Yeah, I'm understanding that about the SSDs now.


----------



## cucker tarlson (May 1, 2019)

go with z390 gaming sli,8700k,nr600 case if you want to shave off $100 but that build you made is pretty tight.


----------



## 27MaD (May 1, 2019)

Everything is awesome but seriously did you throw a 60Hz monitor in there , replace it with something 144Hz.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 1, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> I would be careful about that case.  Very few people (that arent enthusiasts) love gigantic cases.



He liked my Silverstone FT04, and like I said earlier, the case is really just a place holder until my friend actually picks a case. Personal preference is just as important as air flow when picking a case IMHO.



cucker tarlson said:


> go with z390 gaming sli,8700k,nr600 case if you want to shave off $100 but that build you made is pretty tight.



I'll look into those changes, thank you.



27MaD said:


> Everything is awesome but seriously did you throw a 60Hz monitor in there , replace it with something 144Hz.



Trying to keep costs down as much as possible. He currently games on a PS4, so 60Hz will be fine for him for now.

Made some changes, shaved $125 off the cost, and managed to add in a NVMe SSD and 144Hz 27" 2560*1440 monitor

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CqqDYT


----------



## Midiamp (May 1, 2019)

Nope on the i9, go for the i5-9600K. I got a build order again for another friend, last time I ordered i9-9900K because it's an order, this time, only Intel + mid/high build for gaming. I searched around the net again since I've been off the Intel loop for about 2 years, and I found the i5-9600K punch above its price bracket (compared to other Intel offerings).

You can search the performance numbers for yourself I guess if you haven't already knew, it's new to me anyway. I want to go lower with i5-9400F but I spare my friend so he can brag on the forums or what not with his unlocked processor. The build is using Z390 though, maybe comet lake will be 1151, so perhaps he can upgrade later without worrying about bargain bin VRMs.

The saving from processor goes to RTX 2070 and Be Quiet DRP4, just because.


----------



## Vayra86 (May 1, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Trying to keep costs down as much as possible. He currently games on a PS4, so 60Hz will be fine for him for now.



I'd be careful with that assumption. 60hz on a PC monitor is not the same as a 50/60hz TV with a console running on it. The typical viewing distance and seating position is different and TVs can use several techniques to aid smoothness, but also motion clarity (such as interpolation). A PC monitor is a straight passthrough really, no frills, and any frame dips will quickly result in tearing, while Vsync can be a pretty serious latency hit.

A high refresh panel solves most of these problems / mitigates them in a big way. You don't even need to run the system at 144 fps all the time. High refresh panels also are less prone to screen tearing for example.

Basically with the current CPU and a 60hz monitor you've got a massive engine in a shitty chassis. Lots of horsepower you'll never get to see. And a high refresh alternative to a half-decent IPS or VA costs what, 10% of the total build cost? If you need to save that money, kick that CPU down a notch instead. The monitor is a key part of a sweet rig, its your window into enjoying all that performance. Why pick a crappy window?

I say this from experience; I've done many hardware upgrades before I moved to a high refresh panel, and ever since, any upgrade feels 10X more worthwhile, and every time I fire up that monitor, I have a wow experience. Yes, that still happens today... Its highly underestimated what a good monitor does for the overall experience.


----------



## phanbuey (May 1, 2019)

tv's are interlaced, blurred and have a bunch of delay and smoothing tech so 30 / 60fps on a tv feels much better than PC i've found.  PC frames are pretty harsh.  Plus the true benefit of PC gaming is really the 144hz fps / racing game rush that feels WAYY different than console.

60FPS vsync is pretty smooth on PC, so the monitor is still good. But once you go to 144+ (esp with freesync or gsync) it's a whole other level.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 1, 2019)

Made some changes, shaved $210 off the cost, and managed to add in a NVMe SSD and 144Hz 27" 2560*1440 monitor

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/6q3qtg


----------



## phanbuey (May 1, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Made some changes, shaved $210 off the cost, and managed to add in a NVMe SSD and 144Hz 27" 2560*1440 monitor
> 
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/6q3qtg



He is gonna love it


----------



## Mats (May 1, 2019)

The next generation Ryzen will most likely be presented in full on *May 27th*, less than a month away. I'd personally like to see what they're offering before ordering.


----------



## EarthDog (May 1, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Made some changes, shaved $210 off the cost, and managed to add in a NVMe SSD and 144Hz 27" 2560*1440 monitor
> 
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/6q3qtg


Looks good. My suggestion now though, however is to get at least a RTX 2080 with a WQHD (2560x1440) 144 Hz panel. The 2070, though it will be fine, won't push things. If he is looking at $5K another $200 for a 2080 won't hurt to make better use of the monitor.

I'd personally rather have 9700K over 8700K. I'd rock 8 real cores than 6+HT. Again, if he has the budget, might as well go 9900K. 

That said, surely a 8700K will last 3 years. My biggest fear is the 2070 in 3 years with new titles at that res/refresh. If I had to choose one vs the other, upgrade that GPU.

Otherwise, looks good to me!


----------



## moproblems99 (May 1, 2019)

tigger said:


> Not bad, nowt wrong with a 9700k+RTX2070. Though I have to say don't pay $100 for win 10 when you can buy a oem key for $15



Or just use a win 7 key to install win 10.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 1, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> tv's are interlaced, blurred and have a bunch of delay and smoothing tech so 30 / 60fps on a tv feels much better than PC i've found.  PC frames are pretty harsh.  Plus the true benefit of PC gaming is really the 144hz fps / racing game rush that feels WAYY different than console.
> 
> 60FPS vsync is pretty smooth on PC, so the monitor is still good. But once you go to 144+ (esp with freesync or gsync) it's a whole other level.



Just a note, TVs are not interlaced and haven't been since the days of CRTs. Yes, the signal can be, if you get 1080i, but otherwise, no. The p in 720p and 1080p is for progressive, whereas the i in 1080i is for interlaced.


----------



## EarthDog (May 1, 2019)

Aren't most TV/cable signals 1080i? I really would have to double check, but I swear my TV typically says 1080i unless I am rocking a  blu ray movie???????


----------



## 64K (May 1, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Aren't most TV/cable signals 1080i? I really would have to double check, but I swear my TV typically says 1080i unless I am rocking a  blu ray movie???????



We've got Comcast and pay extra for HD channels. Most come in at 1080i. A few at 720p and a very few at 1080p. Comcast claims there's not enough bandwidth to send everything at 1080p. I don't know if that's true or not though.


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (May 1, 2019)

Red dragon 552 is loud clicky clanky...
The rgb502 is membrane and a fairly good ripoff of the Razer Deathstalker.
Red dragon stuff is nice but has a short lifespan compared to other brands.

And you can't eat greasy food and touch their keyboards.... Whatever the rubbery stuff they put on them it's like glue to oil.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 1, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Aren't most TV/cable signals 1080i? I really would have to double check, but I swear my TV typically says 1080i unless I am rocking a  blu ray movie???????



That's the content provider, not the TV. A progressive TV can display an interlaced picture. This is also why 1080i60 and 1080p30 was the first full HD resolutions, as you can get a higher frame rate with the same data bandwidth by interlacing the signal. An interlaced display on the other hand can't display progressive content.



64K said:


> We've got Comcast and pay extra for HD channels. Most come in at 1080i. A few at 720p and a very few at 1080p. Comcast claims there's not enough bandwidth to send everything at 1080p. I don't know if that's true or not though.



Well, it's true and it's not true. Obviously a cable network has limited bandwidth, but it also depends on the compression algorithm used, as it matters a lot. If they use say MPEG-4, then no, but if they were to switch to something modern like H.265/HEVC, most channels could be in 1080p. The problem is that the more efficient codecs tend to be reserved for 4K content and then we end up with the same problem again, with there not being enough bandwidth...


----------



## juiseman (May 1, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> OEM key for $15? Share your info man.



How bout $3.49...lol

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICROSOFT-...=362635953170920ec0d6681f4fe0bc537338eb2ab1b2


----------



## Chomiq (May 1, 2019)

Mats said:


> The next generation Ryzen will most likely be presented in full on *May 27th*, less than a month away. I'd personally like to see what they're offering before ordering.



That's the day of the keynote. The rumored launch is on 7/7.


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (May 1, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Aren't most TV/cable signals 1080i? I really would have to double check, but I swear my TV typically says 1080i unless I am rocking a  blu ray movie???????


Really depends on the original signal and who your provider is and even what equipment you use.
Take Charter/Spectrum if you're using one of their boxes you're only going to get 1080i but if you're getting it through the Spectrum app on Roku those same 1080i channels are usually 1080p.
They still use MPEG-4 on their boxes... Fairly certain the app uses HVEC.


----------



## phanbuey (May 1, 2019)

yeah we still got a while, then the shortages, and no mention of the 16 core part and if it will work on x470 or need the new x5 series boards - it's gonna be August before Ill get my hands on Zen 2 gear most likely.  (I would really want the 16 core too, no point in going to another 8 core for a 5-10% boost)


----------



## EarthDog (May 1, 2019)

jmcslob said:


> Really depends on the original signal and who your provider is and even what equipment you use.
> Take Charter/Spectrum if you're using one of their boxes you're only going to get 1080i but if you're getting it through the Spectrum app on Roku those same 1080i channels are usually 1080p.
> They still use MPEG-4 on their boxes... Fairly certain the app uses HVEC.


Absolutely. But, I digress as this is a bit OT.


----------



## Mats (May 1, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> That's the day of the keynote. The rumored launch is on 7/7.


I never said anything about launch. I'm pretty sure AMD will present the products during the keynote.

Besides, I've never seen anything more than rumors about that date, the magical number "7" isn't enough for me, sorry.


----------



## juiseman (May 1, 2019)

16 cores / 32 threads would be cool. That might motivate me to build a new rig.
I'll wait too see how it handles productivity workloads. Mainly low latency audio performance.
I'm sure they will do great for Video/3D CAD/Animation Work....


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (May 1, 2019)

I really think any upper end Intel "K" model is going to last the next 3 years especially with a 2070.
If it was building soon I'd build it with 32gb of ram... Decent 32gb kits start at $140...I think after August or September we're going to start seeing prices rise again until thanksgiving and then they'll drop again... That's just my guess tho.
Have you considered the Fractured Design Meshify-C for a case?
I have one and I'm fond of it for it's size and airflow.
It's a smaller ATX case but still gives fantastic cooling options.

I've also been looking at this..
https://m.newegg.com/product/N82E16811133395?m_ver=1
Because it's perty


----------



## thebluebumblebee (May 1, 2019)

All of the monitors that you have chosen *do not* have any form of adaptive sync.


> Going from a 60 Hz monitor to a 144 Hz one is, in my opinion, the biggest, most drastic upgrade to the overall gaming experience one can currently make. There's no going back to gaming at standard refresh rates once you get a taste of the buttery smoothness of your crosshair, as well as the action itself. And adding NVIDIA G-Sync to the mix, a technology that eliminates unpleasant screen tearing by making sure the monitor's refresh rate is always in perfect sync with the current framerate, comes as a cherry on top of an already delicious cake.


GiSync adds about $150 to the price of a monitor, but it has been my experience that the hardest piece of a PC to justify upgrading is the monitor.  AMD's Freesync on the other hand is almost free.  Fortunately, Nvidia has recently come out with a list of Freesync monitors that work with G-Sync GPU's.
NVIDIA G-SYNC now Supports FreeSync/VESA Adaptive-Sync Technology
NVIDIA Adding 7 "G-Sync Compatible" Monitors to Its Listing on April 23rd

Hopefully someone with more experience than I with these monitors can step up and make a recommendation.

As for the CPU, W1zzard's testing has shown that the CPU is where you can save money.  Look at the price spread for 4% performance difference.


Spoiler: CPU Relative Performance












As for the case, my current favorite is the FD Meshify C, and it comes in several different flavors. (and @jmcslob just beat me)

In summary, I'd go with a 9400F, a 2TB Firecuda SSHD, forgo the NVME drive, and spend big on the monitor.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 1, 2019)

juiseman said:


> 16 cores / 32 threads would be cool. That might motivate me to build a new rig.
> I'll wait too see how it handles productivity workloads. Mainly low latency audio performance.
> I'm sure they will do great for Video/3D CAD/Animation Work....



This build will be only for gaming, maybe a little youtube watching or FB surfing, listening to some music, but that's about it. The guy's profession is in-the-field electrician, so he really doesn't have a need for doing any productivity work on this computer. 16cores/32threads would be cool, but total over-kill.



jmcslob said:


> I really think any upper end Intel "K" model is going to last the next 3 years especially with a 2070.
> If it was building soon I'd build it with 32gb of ram... Decent 32gb kits start at $140...I think after August or September we're going to start seeing prices rise again until thanksgiving and then they'll drop again... That's just my guess tho.
> Have you considered the Fractured Design Meshify-C for a case?
> I have one and I'm fond of it for it's size and airflow.
> ...



Agreed about the 





> any upper end Intel "K" model is going to last the next 3 years


 commit.

32 gb of RAM for a gaming system? You think that is really necessary? I personally have yet to coming close to running out of RAM with only 16 gb. I don't think the guy is a RPG player, but more like a FPS player, like me.

I'll keep those cases in mind when I help my friend make his choice.


----------



## cucker tarlson (May 1, 2019)

yup,going for a 60hz monitor with a rig like that is a waste.go for one that has adaptive sync though.
144hz 1440p panel is what you're gonna wanna have for that immediate wow effect coming from consoles.
sharper image with much,much less blur and the response is gonna feel almost real-life like to him.
I vote for a wireless mouse too.get him a g403,they're cheap and they're phenomenal in gaming/every day use.


----------



## Vayra86 (May 1, 2019)

juiseman said:


> How bout $3.49...lol
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICROSOFT-WINDOWS-10-PRO-LICENSE-PRODUCT-KEY-DOWNLOAD-INSTANT-SEND/362635953170?hash=item546ec98412&enc=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&checksum=362635953170920ec0d6681f4fe0bc537338eb2ab1b2



How about this

https://www.allkeyshop.com/blog/buy-windows-10-professional-cd-key-compare-prices/

Standard go-to for me... always check a few shops in the list for the actual deals. I've also experienced customer service at a few of these shops and without exception it was good. Have had two refunds and one key replacement because it was already used. Took two emails that were responded to within 3 work days total.


----------



## eidairaman1 (May 1, 2019)

Alternative
R5 2600/2600X or R7 2700 with X470 Taichi or Crosshair 7 board.

1080/1080TI, 2700 RTX, V7, V56/64, 1660ti or RX580/590.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 1, 2019)

thebluebumblebee said:


> All of the monitors that you have chosen *do not* have any form of adaptive sync.





cucker tarlson said:


> yup,going for a 60hz monitor with a rig like that is a waste.go for one that has adaptive sync though.
> 144hz 1440p panel is what you're gonna wanna have for that immediate wow effect coming from consoles.
> sharper image with much,much less blur and the response is gonna feel almost real-life like to him.



144Hz 1440p g-sync monitor added
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/9sYVV6



cucker tarlson said:


> I vote for a wireless mouse too.get him a g403,they're cheap and they're phenomenal in gaming/every day use.



I tried wireless mice before, I got real tired of dead batteries because of forgetting to put the mouse on charge, even though it was rare that it would happen. I do not recommend wireless mice for that reason


----------



## moproblems99 (May 1, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> no mention of the 16 core part and if it will work on x470



There has been plenty of mention.  From what we 'know' now, only A320 boards will not be compatible.


----------



## cucker tarlson (May 1, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> 144Hz 1440p adaptive sync monitor added
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/9sYVV6
> 
> 
> ...


logitech is gonna change your mind.
ask around,you won't find ppl saying it's a problem on 403/703/903/G pro anymore


----------



## eidairaman1 (May 1, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> 144Hz 1440p g-sync monitor added
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/9sYVV6
> 
> 
> ...



There is always a level of input lag with them


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 1, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> logitech is gonna change your mind.
> ask around,you won't find ppl saying it's a problem on 403/703/903/G pro anymore



I've been using Logitech mice for over 20 years, both wired and wireless. Like I said, dead batteries don't happen often, but when they do happen, it always seemed to be when I didn't have time for dealing with dead batteries. That's why I still use a G500.


----------



## Zareek (May 1, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Aren't most TV/cable signals 1080i? I really would have to double check, but I swear my TV typically says 1080i unless I am rocking a  blu ray movie???????



Broadcast TV is only 1080i or 720p. A lot of modern cable boxes have hardware scaling that will output everything at 1080p.


----------



## cucker tarlson (May 1, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> There is always a level of input lag with them


true for some,especially older.
I've been using g403 though and pretty much confirm what everyone is saying-no added lag on new logitech mice

https://www.overclock.net/forum/375...chaos-spectrum-wireless-gaming-mouse-ino.html

https://www.overclock.net/forum/25025749-post17.html








dunno about dead batteries,I wouldn't worry about that so much.


----------



## Static~Charge (May 1, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> OEM key for $15? Share your info man.


*URCDKeys Now Selling Windows 10 Pro OEM and Office 2016 Lifetime Keys at Up To 92% Off*
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...ce-2016-lifetime-keys-at-up-to-92-off.250562/


----------



## John Naylor (May 1, 2019)

Not much to point out anmd say "Oh no dont get that but before you pull the trigger would look at some alternatives i think are worthy of consideration.

1.   I don't see the i7 for a gaming box and I think it's a mistake to go "last generation" .. I like the 9600k here for the savings

https://tpucdn.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i5_9600K/images/relative-performance-games-2560-1440.png

2.  The Fuma outperforms pretty much everything else under $150 and it costs $46

https://tpucdn.com/reviews/Scythe/Fuma/images/temp_oc_aida64.png

3.  The MSI Gaming pro Carbon is better reviewed by reviewers and owners ... on newegg board owners gave it 75% 5 egg ratings and only 6% 1 egg... The Gigabyte model doesn't fare near as well in this regard.

Look at the compare link below
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?CompareItemList=-1|13-144-212^13-144-212,13-145-093^13-145-093

MSI has Higher RAM speed support
MSI has newer Audio Codec
MSI has more fan headers and more RGB capabilities (if into that kinda thing)
MSI has support for (4) USB 3.1 Gen 2 ports, Giga only has (2)

4.  Good choice on the DDR4-3000 CAS 15 , alternate to consider would be 3200 CAS 16 for $9 cheaper, your choice may depend on aesthetics.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/RR...gb-2-x-8-gb-ddr4-3200-memory-bls2k8g4d32aesck

5.  Recognize that the 2 TB of storage in no way benefits from the speed of an SSD ... and that drive has a 2 year warranty.  Suggest upgrade to SSHD performance gain and 5 year warranty.    These have the a slightly lower failure rate than the WD Black except the SSHD is 54% faster in gaming

6.  I'm a bit unsure of the HP SSD ... have always done w/ Samsung.  Maybe others can chime in here.

7.  I didn't see many reviews on the Giga 2070... The top 3  performers however in TPUs reviews were the (1) Zotac Amp Extreme ($499), (2) MSI Gaming Z ($560) and (3) Palit Gaming Rock (?).  I like the Gaming X for the 0 noise passive cooling option at low loads ... but so does everyone else which has driven the price up to $60-80 above the less desired models.  The Zotac delivered the highest fps among all 2070s tested here on TPU so and for that I  think it's worth the extra money.

8.  The 912 was a nice small case in its day .... that was 9  years ago but the design s old and surpassed by todays modern cases.  Id consider some of the Phanteks models... notable the 400S (S stands fo Silent).  Be aware there are several color combos to choose from

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/pt...ss-blackred-atx-mid-tower-case-ph-ec300ptg_br
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/XT...pered-glass-atx-mid-tower-case-ph-ec416ptg_ag
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/H6...pered-glass-atx-mid-tower-case-ph-ec416ptg_br

Both the 912 and 400S will limit use of drive bays with the selected GFX cards
Phanteks has plenty so no issues... I haven't used the 912 in 7 or 8 years so can't comment


9.  PSU is best choice you could make

10.  Id think about the curved monitor, many folks I know who went that way later sold it and got a flat.... but if its all about gaming shouldn't pose a problem.  However couldn't find it reviewed on any reputable site so can't comment much on the selection.    I generally don't buy unless i can find a review here... www.tftcentral.co.uk/ .  And witha 2070, I'd wan't G-Sync... this monitor does have either.   May wanna do a little research before you buy.

If budget alows this is the best 1440p monitor available ... 10 bit,  165 Hz IPS, G-Sync
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/ttnG3C/acer-monitor-xb271hubmiprz

But  considering budget limitations, they best you can do at 27" w/ D-Sync and ULMB is the Dell S2716DG which comes in at $450.   If budget is limiting, I'd much rather live with no SSD at this point in time than have a monitor with no adaptive sync or, more important for me,  no motion blur reduction.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/BcTrxr/dell-monitor-s2716dg

Not, you may be thinking of  Freesync monitor now that a small number of those will function on GFX cards.   Thay's a choice buyt you should be awarte that there are differences between the two; they are not "\ the same thing",

-Freesync kicks in at about 40 fps, and works to eliminate screen issues from about 40 fps on up; once you start to pass 60 fps the impact on the user from these corrections starts to taper off. 
-G-sync kicks in at about 30 fps, and works to eliminate screen issues from about 40 fps on up; once you start to pass 60 fps the impact on the user from these corrections starts to taper off.    G-Sync has a hardware module for Motion Blur Reduction, that eliminates ghosting.  NVidia calls it Ultra Low Motiuon Blur (ULMB)  ... you can see the effect here:










I find that above 75-80 fps, I prefer the benefits of ULMB to have more of an impact than G-Sync and the higher the fps, the more pronounced the difference.   You can get MBR technology on a Freesync monitor but the solution here is provided by the monitor manufacturer not AD... therefore the quality of the technology may vary between manufacturers.

If this is the choice that has to be made cause "he don't wanna wait" and doesn't have the extra $100 for the monitor.   I'd make a 250 GB partition on the SSHD for now and after a few more paycheks come in, grab the SSD, make an image of the one on SSHD and copy it to the SSD.   I always do this when we do a build for someone... has come in handy many times when a Windows Update,  infection or other hazard mucks up the OS install.  Or if he feels doesn't need that security, just delete the partition and recover the space

One of the things I like to do is when we put SSD and SSHD from the get go is, when I do the 2 week checkup, I switch the boot drive from the SSD to the SSHD just to see if they notice ... no one has so far 

Boot Time SSD - 15.6 seconds
Boot Time SSHD = 16.5 seconds

I'm not going to comment much on mouse, KB and speakers other than we don't recommend wireless for mouse, KB and speakers.   For headsets, I have been asked too many time to repair headsets because, if ya picked  a good one, and forget it's on, ya can rip it off ya head when standing up.  The Logitech 933 has worked well for us.

I keep one f these around as a gag ...
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/dMcMnQ/logitech-mouse-910004440

Many heavy gamers have told me they love this one
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/ytZQzy/logitech-mouse-910002864


https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7GnWkd


----------



## phanbuey (May 1, 2019)




----------



## cucker tarlson (May 1, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> View attachment 122124


naaaaah

qlc drives - go for 2tb or go home.1tb you'll be better off with just a 3d tlc sata ssd


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (May 1, 2019)

Zareek said:


> Broadcast TV is only 1080i or 720p. A lot of modern cable boxes have hardware scaling that will output everything at 1080p.


Yes "Broadcast" as in OTA (over the air broadcasts) are broadcast in 720p/1080i however in modern times with live streaming channels including locals in apps like CBS/Hulu/YouTube TV are available at 30fps 1080p or better.
 I regress as broadcast and cable is 1080i
Personally haven't had "cable" for a few years.
ATSC 3.0 is on the way and goes all the way up to 8k with Dolby-ac4
Double the range too... Allows for interaction with internet connection. Fun stuff.


@BarbaricSoul 
I completely agree with you on the memory.
I have a gaming system with 8gb and it's just fine...
I was just saying if I'm going higher end, why not.


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (May 1, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> He was thinking this would cost around $5k to build a decent gaming computer.


So, were you a good friend and said, “I’ll tell you what, it will be tough, but if you give me the $5k, I’ll do my best to make it work. If I go over a little, I’ll eat the difference.”


----------



## EarthDog (May 2, 2019)

jmcslob said:


> I have a gaming system with 8gb and it's just fine...


Half the games I play use more than 8GB... on some it hurts the gaming experience. 

16GB will be fine for the next 3 years.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (May 2, 2019)

Any reason as to why you're not going down the AMD route? Just curious...

Apologies if it has been posted. I am a little late to the party.


----------



## eidairaman1 (May 2, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> Any reason as to why you're not going down the AMD route? Just curious...
> 
> Apologies if it has been posted. I am a little late to the party.



https://pcpartpicker.com/list/bXHVV6

Very Solid Build here, no having to swap motherboards since 8700/9700 are same mobo chipset and after that is a platform change...


----------



## cucker tarlson (May 2, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/bXHVV6
> 
> Very Solid Build here, no having to swap motherboards since 8700/9700 are same mobo chipset and after that is a platform change...


He wants something faster than Vega 56 and 2600.


BarbaricSoul said:


> I'm looking for suggestions to save some money on the price without sacrificing performance.


You're saving a lot of money but cutting peformance down by 30-40% at the same time.pcgh and tpu show 2070 35% faster (recent tests,updated on 22nd April 19)
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Grafi...Rangliste-GPU-Grafikchip-Benchmark-1174201/2/


To match that 8700/9700,or at least be in the ballpark,he needs 2700x and memory that'll run +3400mhz on ryzen.You're ending up with the same cost since b-dies cost an arm and a leg.For 8700k/9700k there's the benefit of OC and better compability with memory,3800-4000 is achievable on pretty much any memory IC.With ryzen you're getting the option of future upgrade to 12/16 cores,though I don't think that's gonna be required.We saw the transition from 2-4 to 8-12 threads to run games smoothly,doesn't mean in 5 years we'll need to jump from 12 to 24 threads.By the time we need 24 threads for smooth gaming current architectures will be absolutely obsolete anyway.Of course you're getting the benefit of a workstation cpu with a future upgrade to +10 cores,so if that's what he needs he should consider it.

I second the idea of TR macho cooler though.I think sb mentioned scythe fuma too.I'd prefer both to that deepcool cooler.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 2, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> .I'd prefer both to that deepcool cooler.



Have you used one? I've had one on a 3930k OC'ed to 4.5GHz that was crunching 24/7. It kept the 3930k around 70'c at full load. For $45, I'll stick with a "proven to me" performer. BTW, looking at reviews, the Lucifer is just as good as the TR (within 1% performance wise to the TR), and can be used for both Intel and AMD.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermalright/Macho_RevB/8.html


----------



## eidairaman1 (May 2, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Have you used one? I've had one on a 3930k OC'ed to 4.5GHz that was crunching 24/7. It kept the 3930k around 70'c at full load. For $45, I'll stick with a "proven to me" performer. BTW, looking at reviews, the Lucifer is just as good as the TR (within 1% performance wise to the TR), and can be used for both Intel and AMD.
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermalright/Macho_RevB/8.html



Look at the price on everything that made the adjustment


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 2, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> Look at the price on everything that made the adjustment



You mean the Vega 56 that offers 30% less performance, the SATA SSD as opposed to the NVMe SSD, and the 60Hz monitor as opposed to 144Hz monitor? Looking for a no upgraded needed for at least the next 3 years system. I personally don't see that in that build.

When it comes time for my friend and I to sit down and actually hash out the complete build, I will have him read this thread so he will see all the suggestions.


----------



## R0H1T (May 2, 2019)

You do realize that making a system future proof is virtually impossible beyond a certain extent. There's lots of things that could happen in 3 years time, RT for instance. If Intel, AMD come out with a better way who knows Nvidia's RT could look bad & RTX obsolete in that time.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 2, 2019)

Yes, I'm very far from being new here, and I have building custom computers for longer than I have been a member of TPU. I am fully aware of how there is no such thing as "future proof" when it comes to technology. But I also realize it is possible to make a system to have a expected life span. That is exactly what I'm doing here.


----------



## eidairaman1 (May 2, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Yes, I'm very far from being new here, and I have building custom computers for longer than I have been a member of TPU. I am fully aware of how there is no such thing as "future proof" when it comes to technology. But I also realize it is possible to make a system to have a expected life span. That is exactly what I'm doing here.



Ygpm


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (May 2, 2019)

R0H1T said:


> You do realize that making a system future proof is virtually impossible beyond a certain extent. There's lots of things that could happen in 3 years time, RT for instance. If Intel, AMD come out with a better way who knows Nvidia's RT could look bad & RTX obsolete in that time.


Even if RTX is obsolete it takes a few years for the next tech to cycle into the market giving people at least 3 years....


----------



## R0H1T (May 2, 2019)

Except this time we have new consoles lined up, pretty sure the Navi "tech" will get into games much faster. Same goes for more games utilizing ~8 cores, better than they do atm.


----------



## Mats (May 2, 2019)

Try to look back instead, which premium hardware didn't make it 3 years after it was bought (within a year of release), only counting popular, well received products?

I bet there are some 4 core owners who wants more cores, but I dunno if that makes their computers obsolete. So if you had a 6700K when 1800X and 8700K showed up, you still had a pretty good CPU.


Also, I don't think it counts if you have upgraded to a monitor that demands a faster GPU.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 2, 2019)

Mats said:


> Try to look back instead, which premium hardware didn't make it 3 years after it was bought (within a year of release), only counting popular, well received products?



My 780ti made it 3 years, 5 days before I upgraded it to 1070 (Nov 29, 2014 to Dec 2, 2017) . Reason? Lack of video RAM.


----------



## Mats (May 2, 2019)

Yeah, GPU's get outdated much faster, obviously. The lack of video RAM is a hard pill to swallow when the GPU is good enough otherwise.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 2, 2019)

my 5 year old 3930k (4.5GHz OC) is still kicking just fine


----------



## John Naylor (May 2, 2019)

[QUOTE="BarbaricSoul, post: 4039865, member: 49368"The case is really just a place holder in the build. IMHO, personal preference is just as important as air flow when it comes to picking a case. The actual case for the build will be one he picks out with my help.

Budget isn't really set. The guy has the money to afford a 9900k/2080ti/30" 4k system. He was thinking this would cost around $5k to build a decent gaming computer.

Yeah, I'm understanding that about the SSDs now.[/QUOTE]

Geez I missed that part .... if that's really the case, I had it in my head that budget was an issue ..  There was a great ine in GoT in Episode 2 where Sansa asks Dani "What does a dragon eat" ... and was answered "whatever it wants".  In that vein ...

1.  Then I'd stick with the 9700k, or the 9900k

2,  I'll never recommend and aluminum rad CLC but an all copper OLC is better than the Fuma ... PCparticker fpor whatever reason won't pick up the H360 X3 so I used a place holder in pcpp list,  http://www.swiftech.com/drive-x3-aio.aspx

3.  The MoBo  I recommended is fine, but if ya want a bit more ..... There are more costly MoBos but nothing they add seems worthy of note to my eyes.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813144210

4.  At 3600, things aren't too pricey yet,  and CAS 17 will help

5.  A 1 TB SSHD doesn't  sound problematic now w/o budget limitations

6.  The 2 TB 7200 rom SSHD still in this spot

7.  I can't bring myself to recommend a 2080 Ti at current proces, but if he truly doesn't care, the highest performing on TP tested outside of the Lightning was the MSI Gaming Trio which just edged out the EVGA FTW and Asus Strix.  The EVGA was a bit loud tho,   So I'll recommend the 2080 version of the same card as it outperformed all other cards TPU tested.  Keep in mind tho that there was only a 11 fps spread between best and worst.  The Zotac Amp Extreme was only 3 fps behind and both have 0 fan noise when idling.

8.  The Evolv X is the consensus "best case under $200" among most reviewers and it's as gorgeous as it is functional.  Check out the youtube reviews

9.  Again your original PSU is best choice

10.  Now that its clear budget is not an issue, I would spring for the best gaming experience available today and that comes on the Acer Predator XB271HU or Asus Swift PG279Q.  Orignally both used 10 bit panels but Asus switched to 8 bit so i gotta go with the Acer.

11.  As for KBs I have always used the Logitech wired ones with the LCD to display system infor whatever for various apps and games.... but now they are going from $240 - $450 and that's obscene no matter how much dough you have to spend.   Some gamers insist on mechanical KBs ... and I have seen some new KBs that let you stick ya phone in the universay dock  (See Roccat Skelter) .  I have not seen a review or tried so can't offer a comment.

12.    Same with mice ... all my old reliables have sunsetted ... not sure what I'd pick today.

13.  For me sound is an important part of Gaming ... if the floor's not shaking, it's not gaming  ... the Logitech 500 watters do fine.  If he plays while others sleep, then we really like the the Logitech G933 headset ... well except for the stoopid LEDs, luckily you can turn them off.   They should interact with game and if you have flashing lights on ya head, so should your toon in game ... make you an ez target.

Again, as before..... these are just other things to look at and consider your / his options before pulling the trigger.  The only thing I really feel very strongly about is the monitor.... once you have played w/ an 10 bit IPS screen @ 165 Hz, everything else looks "flat" and washed out. ... waiting for my kids to buy me one .  here's some data on response and lag times for the older 144 hz model  ... this is real measured data, not the fake numbers on manufacturer's data sheets

https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/acer_xb270hu/response_5.png
https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/acer_xb270hu/lag.jpg

The case is also a marvel of design with more than one reviewer stating that it belongs in an art museum but they really hit the mark on the features too.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/FrMGQZ


----------



## cucker tarlson (May 2, 2019)

let's make a clear distinction.cpu being made obsolete because of insufficient numbers of cores is a fact,same as 3gb cards being borderline at best now.but the way I see selling ppl 16gb video cards and 24 thread processors is more like a company's product sale strategy though,it has to do with what market they're aiming at and what they are able to manufacture at the moment in comparison to what the competition has.Nothing to do with the prospect of 9700/8700 or 2070 being obsolete in 3 years.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 2, 2019)

John Naylor said:


> [QUOTE="BarbaricSoul, post: 4039865, member: 49368"The case is really just a place holder in the build. IMHO, personal preference is just as important as air flow when it comes to picking a case. The actual case for the build will be one he picks out with my help.
> 
> Budget isn't really set. The guy has the money to afford a 9900k/2080ti/30" 4k system. He was thinking this would cost around $5k to build a decent gaming computer.
> 
> Yeah, I'm understanding that about the SSDs now.


???


----------



## oxrufiioxo (May 2, 2019)

Any reason a Ryzen 2700/2080 combo isn't being considered over a 8700k/2070 build? Assuming all other things being equal that's a pretty massive GPU power difference for about 75$.


----------



## cucker tarlson (May 2, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Any reason a Ryzen 2700/2080 combo isn't being considered over a 8700k/2070 build? Assuming all other things being equal that's a pretty massive GPU power difference for about 75$.


if you cut corners on mobo and other stuff I suppose you could make this work,but 2070 is pretty good at driving a 1440p 144hz display while the difference in price is what,almost 1.5x for 1.15x the performance....plus for the 2700x to drive a gtx2080 at 144hz you need some really fast memory kit,and that requires using b-dies on ryzen and what you saved on going 2700x over 8700k is pretty much back to square now.

wait,how are 2070-2080 $75 apart. they're over $200 apart.

instead he might look into getting a 2700x on a b450 mobo and some basic 3000mhz ram putting the savings into upgrading the monitor to 3440x1440 100/120hz ultrawide.But that depends if they want it.I personally wouldn't.stick to 2560x1440 144hz,get the fastest gaming cpu there is and complement it with a 2070.Pretty tight plan IMO.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (May 2, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> if you cut corners on mobo and other stuff I suppose you could make this work,but 2070 is pretty good at driving a 1440p 144hz display while the difference in price is what,almost 1.5x for 1.15x the performance....plus for the 2700x to drive a gtx2080 at 144hz you need some really fast memory kit,and that requires using b-dies on ryzen and what you saved on going 2700x over 8700k is pretty much back to square now.
> 
> wait,how are 2070-2080 $75 apart. they're over $200 apart.



$220 ryzen 2700/$699 2080 vs $369 i7 8700k/$480 2070.... although I wouldn't buy a base model of either GPU


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 2, 2019)

If I was to go with a AMD build, the motherboard would be the Taichi. So, with that in mind, this is what a 2700X/2080 combo would cost (-$90 for going with the 2700)- https://pcpartpicker.com/list/HKh69J

I'm just over $1900 with the 8700k/2070 combo- https://pcpartpicker.com/list/9sYVV6


----------



## cucker tarlson (May 2, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> $220 ryzen 2700/$699 2080 vs $369 i7 8700k/$480 2070.... although I wouldn't buy a base model of either GPU


yup,but with a non-xfr 2700 and rtx2080 you're sacrificing too much of the budget for the gpu while cutting corners elsewhere.
rtx2080 ain't worth it in the first place.It'd make sense if it was 35-40% percent faster than 2070 at $220 more,but not 15%.You're paying for gigarayz just to get acceptable RT performance at 1440p which 2070 can't do.


----------



## RealNeil (May 2, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Budget isn't really set. The guy has the money to afford a 9900k/2080ti/30" 4k system. He was thinking this would cost around $5k to build a decent gaming computer.



If he was expecting it to cost in the 5 thousand dollar range, spend some more on a 144MHz refresh screen and an RTX-2080Ti GPU. 
This will make for years of great gaming, well into the future. (especially with the option to add a second GPU in the future)


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 2, 2019)

and just for shits and giggles, 9700k/2080 combo- https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7PgdLJ



RealNeil said:


> If he was expecting it to cost in the 5 thousand dollar range, spend some more on a 144MHz refresh screen and an RTX-2080Ti GPU. This will make for years of great gaming well into the future.



I didn't say he expected this to cost him $5k. I said he thought it would take $5k to build a good gaming computer. He wasn't willing to spend that kind of money. When I said I could do it for around $1500 (tower alone), he got real interested and we started to talk about it more.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (May 2, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> and just for shits and giggles, 9700k/2080 combo- https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7PgdLJ



I do like this build personally a lot better but I'd probably go with either a higher tier gigabyte board or the asrock Taichi I think you originally had listed.


----------



## RealNeil (May 2, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> and just for shits and giggles, 9700k/2080 combo- https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7PgdLJ
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say he expected this to cost him $5k. I said he thought it would take $5k to build a good gaming computer. He wasn't willing to spend that kind of money. When I said I could do it for around $1500 (tower alone), he got real interested and we started to talk about it more.



It sounds as if you have a good handle on his wants for the system. Let us know how it works out.


----------



## John Naylor (May 2, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> ???



Im not sure what you are questioning ... taking a guess it's about the cooler being a place holder ?  If so.... click the link at bottom of post to see the parts list ... copied below:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/FrMGQZ

PCpartpicker is limited to products from a small number of merchants.   I guess they pay PCPP to list their stuff.  So that means they do not provide pricing from  all other vendors ... just those 10 or so.

So when you look at the list, you will see "Swiftech - H320 55 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler" as the 2nd item which is just a "placeholder" because they do not list the cooler I was referring to.  I did manually enter the price of the H360 X3.  If ya don't put sometihng in the cooler spot, then PCPP puts in an incompatability warning that ya need a cooler.

So ... as the 320 exists in PCPPs database, I used it as a "place holde"r so a) it would not include the warning and it would allow the price of the cooler to be included in the total.   The real one I was recommending Swiftech H360 X3 was in the post along with a link to where it can be purchased:

In short "Swiftech - H320 Liquid CPU Cooler" is a "stand in"  for "Swiftech H360 X3 Liquid CPU Cooler"

If ya into the RGB thing ... than I'd add this
https://www.swiftech.com/iris-mblink.aspx

Note that this AIO is just a collection of custom looop water components preassembled at the factory.  So you can expand the loop, adding a MoBo Block a GFX card block even an extra radiator as the pump is strong enough to handle it.  You can also do this ...

https://www.swiftech.com/boreas.aspx

Triple Rad w/ 200m reservoir, compression fittings, extension and MoBo fittings would cost him "$259.95 (+$127.07) " ... if later wanted to add a radiator and Full cover water block maybe another $200



cucker tarlson said:


> let's make a clear distinction.cpu being made obsolete because of insufficient numbers of cores is a fact,same as 3gb cards being borderline at best now.but the way I see selling ppl 16gb video cards and 24 thread processors is more like a company's product sale strategy though,it has to do with what market they're aiming at and what they are able to manufacture at the moment in comparison to what the competition has.Nothing to do with the prospect of 9700/8700 or 2070 being obsolete in 3 years.



It's over stated.... no one needs more than 3 GB of VRAMfor 1080p ... look at the 1060 3GB.... the 6GB is 6% faster yes cause the 6GB had 11 % more shaders.   But... there is 0 difference in performnace between 3GB and 6GB.   So if 3GB is **needed** at 1080p, then why isn't 1440p performance even being curtailed.   Same with the extra cores .... play a game and start denying the game access in Task manager by 1 core at a time .... see how many games show a significant difference  until ya get below 4.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 2, 2019)

John Naylor said:


> Im not sure what you are questioning ... taking a guess it's about the cooler being a place holder ?  If so.... click the link at bottom of post to see the parts list ... copied below:
> 
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/FrMGQZ
> 
> ...



Only thing in the post _was_ just what I said, that's what the ??? was for.

As for a budget-



BarbaricSoul said:


> I didn't say he expected this to cost him $5k. I said he thought it would take $5k to build a good gaming computer. He wasn't willing to spend that kind of money. When I said I could do it for around $1500 (tower alone), he got real interested and we started to talk about it more.



That is a really good looking case. I'll make sure he sees it.


----------



## Vario (May 2, 2019)

Either get a different monitor or try to find that monitor used, I have personally seen that PB278Q for $100 several times now locally on craigslist postings and on eBay.  I have two of the smaller version, the PB258Q, which I bought off eBay used for $200 shipped for the first model in 2016 and $120 shipped in 2018 for the second one.  I think in 2019 you should get a 120Hz model instead.

For the NVMe, there are other cheap options with better performance. For example, you can buy the E12 based Inland NVME 1TB X4 off Microcenter's web page for the same price.  It has a 3 year warranty through microcenter and a 1600TBW endurance.  The speed is close to the 970 Evo.

Otherwise, looks like a good build.  I am not a fan of Gigabyte brand videocards though.


----------



## cucker tarlson (May 2, 2019)

Vario said:


> Either get a different monitor or try to find that monitor used, I have personally seen that PB278Q for $100 several times now locally on craigslist postings and on eBay.  I have two of the smaller version, the PB258Q, which I bought off eBay used for $200 shipped for the first model in 2016 and $120 shipped in 2018 for the second one.  I think in 2019 you should get a 120Hz model instead.
> 
> For the NVMe, there are other cheap options with better performance. For example, you can buy the E12 based Inland NVME 1TB X4 off Microcenter's web page for the same price.  It has a 3 year warranty through microcenter and a 1600TBW endurance.  The speed is close to the 970 Evo.


he already changed that for 1440p 144hz


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 2, 2019)

Yeah, I can't edit my original post for this thread. My current build- https://pcpartpicker.com/list/4hVqtg


----------



## cucker tarlson (May 2, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Yeah, I can't edit my original post for this thread. My current build- https://pcpartpicker.com/list/4hVqtg


almost perfect imo
I'd drop the 9700k in favor of 8700k and use that little sum to get 3200 c15 ram if possibe.
secondly,that xb270hu is a very good monitor but lacks height adjustment.ask your friend if he's okay with it.
glad you went with ex920,that's one hell of a drive for that price.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 2, 2019)

the 8700k is in that build

I'll mention that to my friend when the time comes


----------



## Vayra86 (May 2, 2019)

Between 8700K and 9700K really, the 8700K is preferable if it has a lower price. The gaming performance is 100% the same and will be for the next ... many ... years. Six cores is enough and HT can help you out too, you see this today with all those quad i7's still doing OK. They clock about the same and there is no IPC difference. Its a nobrainer. 'But muh soldered CPU' yes that is entirely mitigated versus having to push 8 cores at high clocks instead of six.

And I'm not saying this because I've got one  Its just a repeat of what we've already seen.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 2, 2019)

<----long time 3930k owner

I agree


----------



## Vario (May 2, 2019)

Or just run an 8600K and shave another $100 off.  Basically same gaming performance as the aforementioned 8700K.  Used models are around $200.


----------



## phanbuey (May 2, 2019)

Vario said:


> Or just run an 8600K and shave another $100 off.  Basically same gaming performance as the aforementioned 8700K.  Used models are around $200.













If you can go with 8700K its better.  the i5's are starting to run into bottlenecking in some games (assasin's creed series, far cries, etc).


----------



## Vario (May 2, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> If you can go with 8700K its better.


The 8 core is better than the 6 core model.  The 8700K isn't much better than the 6 core model.  Is the 8700K $100 better?  This is at 1080P.  Gap narrows at higher resolutions.




Doesn't show 8700K in that 1440P CPU benchmark on the site associated with that video..


----------



## phanbuey (May 2, 2019)

Vario said:


> The 8 core is better than the 6 core model.  The 8700K isn't much better than the 6 core model.  Is the 8700K $100 better?  This is at 1080P.  Gap narrows at higher resolutions.
> View attachment 122198



Yeah but he's dropping frames - stuttering with the 6 core.






https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3407-intel-i5-9600k-cpu-review-vs-2700-2600-8700k


The last thing you wanna do is save $100 on a new rig to have it drop frames in some of the biggest titles.

From GN:
"We would favor an i7-8700K if you must go Intel – like for systems with the highest refresh rate possible – while staying below the price of the i9-9900K. We would favor an R7 2700 in heavily-threaded applications or games which are more dependent upon threads than the mean (e.g. Far Cry 5). The 9600K is still often superior in raw framerate, but does suffer frametime consistency hits in games like Far Cry 5. In those instances, it would be a worse experience insofar as its consistency of frame delivery.

If you’re just gaming, the 9600K is often better – but not always, and that inconsistency is the key to our inability to offer a firm recommendation. We’d favor an i7-8700K (if budget can stretch) for pure gaming workloads "

plus you want the processor to last - an i5 is going to get obsolete much faster.


----------



## Vario (May 2, 2019)

Would rather see benchmarking in 1440P as the OP's friend is buying 1440P.  Also, Ubisoft titles run terribly.


----------



## phanbuey (May 2, 2019)

Vario said:


> Would rather see benchmarking in 1440P as the OP's friend is buying 1440P.  Also, Ubisoft titles run terribly.


Ubisoft, Rockstar, Bethesda (fallout 4 anyone?)...

It does the same thing at 1440P.  Point is there is a bunch of stuff out there that runs terribly that would benefit from throwing a bit of extra hardware at it. a $100 on a $1900 rig to go up to a higher class of processor is worth it.  If you're building a $900 budget rig to run League of Legends and a bit of Fortnite then yes - 8600k all the way.  For this class of PC you really want to have that i7.


----------



## Vayra86 (May 2, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> Ubisoft, Rockstar, Bethesda (fallout 4 anyone?)...
> 
> It does the same thing at 1440P.  Point is there is a bunch of stuff out there that runs terribly that would benefit from throwing a bit of extra hardware at it. a $100 on a $1900 rig to go up to a higher class of processor is worth it.  If you're building a $900 budget rig to run League of Legends and a bit of Fortnite then yes - 8600k all the way.  For this class of PC you really want to have that i7.



While this is true, it is also a fundamental question of whether its up to YOU to mitigate shitty code on ancient engines because they don't do their streaming business proper... and whether it is worth eliminating those rare, brief frametime peaks with a much more expensive CPU.

Its not _really _a performance issue, let's be fair. The potential gain is very limited. At the same time, in other engines pushing upwards of 160 FPS is no problem whatsoever. These open world engines are asset heavy and that is a lot of CPU time. None of them are really built or optimized for anything over 60 FPS. Fallout 4, great example...

That said I was a bit surprised at the amount of gain in FC New Dawn from 8 cores. That's not bad at all.


----------



## Vario (May 3, 2019)

I suspect some of the issue with FC5 and 6 core 6 thread is Denuvo, can't prove it though.

If this issue is a really big deal, I'd go straight to 8 core 9700K instead of 8700K.  Hyperthreading isn't as useful as real cores.

Saving a couple hundred bucks here and there will add up a considerable amount and reduce the sticker shock for his friend, you can spend more money, but it doesn't necessarily boost your enjoyment of the game a commensurate amount.
Buying a few of the more robust items used from eBay sellers with decent feedback such as CPU, Monitor, and CPU Heatsink will also drop the price a good amount.
Still worth buying a new motherboard, ram, power supply, SSD, and videocard to reduce potential hassle.  There are decent performing 1TB 3D TLC NVMe drives for under $150 shipped right now.  16GB ram kits are cheap again.  Always make sure the ram is on the motherboard's QVL so the system will run stable.  Try to get a rebate on the motherboard and videocard of course.
Often the seasonic focus+ gold power supply is on sale after rebate for ~$50.
Trying to cut costs on each component will add up to a pretty large cost savings.  The 8600K is one way to do it, but it depends on the games the friend intends to play.  I haven't felt that it held me back in the games I am currently playing: Mordhau, GTAV, Space Engineers.
One way to build a high performance machine cheaply is to buy it piecemeal and grab good deals as they come until all parts are acquired and the machine is ready to build.  If you have a machine to test the parts in as they are acquired to rule out problems during allowed return period, that helps a lot.

Timing the purchase for Amazon prime day would be a good move.  eBay did a 20% off cart deal at the same time last year.


----------



## EarthDog (May 3, 2019)

Vario said:


> Always make sure the ram is on the motherboard's QVL so the system will run stable.


For AMD, no doubt. For Intel, a potato works in theirs.


----------



## Vario (May 3, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> For AMD, no doubt. For Intel, a potato works in theirs.


Back in the Z77 era, the Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H I had didn't play well with a few ram kits I tried that were not on QVL, while the AsRock Z77E-ITX board I had did.


----------



## EarthDog (May 3, 2019)

Just bad luck. 

If you want 100% stick to it... I agree. But for intel, you can roll the dice and more than likely be just fine.... AMD, not so much at all. It's not a dig at AMD, just clarifying how much more finicky they are and how one has to stick to the list versus the general freedom on the other side.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 3, 2019)

Some of you have mentioned buying used parts, and if I was building for myself, I'd agree. My friend would have to agree to it, and when I mentioned saving money by buying used parts from CL, he didn't seem that interested in the idea.


----------



## Vario (May 3, 2019)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Some of you have mentioned buying used parts, and if I was building for myself, I'd agree. My friend would have to agree to it, and when I mentioned saving money by buying used parts from CL, he didn't seem that interested in the idea.


Totally understand, there is a reluctance to do it and that is fine for the non tech inclined, the security of having a new product with a return policy makes sense.
I suggest grabbing a lot of the parts when Amazon does it's prime day or when eBay does a code.  If he trimmed 20% off the price that would be pretty nice.
I think they usually do this in mid July.


----------



## cucker tarlson (May 3, 2019)

I'd only recommend buying a cpu or ram used.
don't buy a used rtx (might be one from a bad batch that the seller is trying to get rid of,or might have been tinkered with already),mobo or psu.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that 9600k is a "LoL" processor,it's very capable in all scenarios,but I'd say it's either for ppl who want 144hz gaming on a limited budget or ones that buy it to use the savings for getting some super fast ram cause they know that's what they need specifically.In most cases 8700K with some basic 2666/3000 ram is gonna be a better option and since it's the op's first choice there's no piont in convincing him to change that.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (May 19, 2019)

My friend read this thread tonight. He'll be registering on TPU in the next few days and posting whatever questions he may have about recommendations. He is open to buying certain parts used (he specifically said he wants a new CPU, and I recommended he definitely go new for a PSU). This is the build sheet with a couple tweaks I'm emailing him to review and research (changes are going DDR4 3000>ddr4 3200 cl 14, 2TB HD>2TB SSHD, Gigabyte Gaming SLI MB>AsRock Taichi MB)- https://pcpartpicker.com/list/NQpBXP

He says he'll be ready to buy in 2-3 weeks


----------

