# Analyst view: Sony de-throned, Nintendo crowned in console wars



## zekrahminator (Mar 4, 2007)

While Sony has seemed to have market dominance in the console wars ever since the PS1, times have certainly changed. Analysts at a company called "IDC" predicted exactly how the market would come out. They claimed that Sony would have the least sales of the three companies in the console market, Microsoft would ride high sales from the start, and Nintendo would have the best thing, due to innovation instead of going head-to-head with the hardware specs. IDC then goes on to predict that Nintendo will maintain those high sales well into 2008. After that, the future is uncertain, and Microsoft may become the winner of this generation of console wars.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## jocksteeluk (Mar 4, 2007)

the reason Sony is in a current decline is because they are trying to create a "prestige" in the games industry when all gamers want is fun, with the current strategy they have adopted since the success of the ps2 i am glad they are in a current decline.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Mar 4, 2007)

lol


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## WarEagleAU (Mar 4, 2007)

Sony will regain the crown. All they need to do is drop about 100 to 200 bucks off he console and they will be good to go.


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## Rodster (Mar 4, 2007)

WarEagleAU said:


> Sony will regain the crown. All they need to do is drop about 100 to 200 bucks off he console and they will be good to go.



Agreed


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## Dippyskoodlez (Mar 4, 2007)

WarEagleAU said:


> Sony will regain the crown. All they need to do is drop about 100 to 200 bucks off he console and they will be good to go.



As their profit margin takes an even bigger nose dive off the cliff it already fell down.


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## Scavar (Mar 4, 2007)

The reality is though, even with the sales so low on the PS3, the PS2 still out sold all the consoles last year, and is currently still leading I believe.

Sony isn't dying, or even hurting that much because of a loss of sales on the PS3. Come the first price drop and a larger inventory of the games, the PS3 will likely pick up. Even if Sony isn't the king, I don't think anyone is going to be the small fry.


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## KennyT772 (Mar 4, 2007)

also don't forget the fact alot of ps3s are being purchased for blue ray players not just gaming consoles. if blue ray takes off bigtime ps3s might be the best choice for a player considering the extras it has.


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## ktr (Mar 4, 2007)

How long will the Wii last? lack of next gen graphics and games to utilize that next gen controller to a higher potential with out sucking will reduce the Wii's lifespan, I have to say the 360 has the best potential with HD content and IPTV, in conjunction with good graphics and a promising upcoming games.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 4, 2007)

Odd, I could have sworn that Sony had the top spot in sales this past holiday season...


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## magibeg (Mar 4, 2007)

Well even if the ps3 sucks as long as bluray takes off sony will be happy.


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## zekrahminator (Mar 4, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> Odd, I could have sworn that Sony had the top spot in sales this past holiday season...



Yes, for the PS2, but I think this is about the current generation of consoles . You have to admit that the PS3 has been kinda trailing in sales lately.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 4, 2007)

Well I find it odd that they attribute the "win" to the innovation of the console, yet a console from last generation outsold it.  I think the only reason the Wii is outselling the other 2 next gen systems is price and price alone.


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## Scavar (Mar 4, 2007)

The PS3 has been trailing in sales, I will tell you what though, at the first price drop, or if I happen to get a better TV, I will be getting one, along with the HD-DVD player for the Xbox360.

And I think thats true for a lot of people. At this point in time, its just more of a waiting game.


It's also true about the Wii, how long will it last?


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## zekrahminator (Mar 4, 2007)

Probably....but I don't think prices for any of the consoles are going to change anytime soon.


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## ktr (Mar 4, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> Probably....but I don't think prices for any of the consoles are going to change anytime soon.



i have read (in this forum i think) that the Wii's will drop to 200, and come with 5-6 new colors...and a new version of the 360 will come out soon, but the price is gonna increase around 650?...


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## Keiki (Mar 4, 2007)

Thing is that the Wii targets a different market than Xbox 360 and the Playstation. I doubt games like Grand Theft Auto will come out for the Wii simply because a lot of kids will play the Wii and the older, more serious gamers will go buy a 360 or PS3. The Wii was fun for a while but the controller is a gimmick and won't last very long.

As for 360 and PS3, who knows, if Sony can have more decent games and as everyone says, drop a few hundred bucks on the price then they still have a shot. Yes, they'll lose money because the PS3 costs more to make than to sell but don't forget that PS3's are blu-ray machines and they will make it all back if they win the format war (assuming the hard drive doesn't crush HD-DVD and blu-ray which it probably will). Just my 2 cents.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 5, 2007)

Keiki said:


> The Wii was fun for a while but the controller is a gimmick and won't last very long.



Exactly why I sold my Wii.


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## hotrippr (Mar 5, 2007)

Serious gamers use a mouse and keyboard.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 5, 2007)

Serious First Person Shooter and Real Time Strategy gamers use a keyboard and mouse, there are better controllers for other game types.  Controllers work better than keyboard and mouse in Racing and Sports games.


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## hotrippr (Mar 5, 2007)

Logitech rumblepad=$$
Xbox360, PS3=$$$


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## C.Ash (Mar 5, 2007)

Keiki said:


> The Wii was fun for a while but the controller is a gimmick and won't last very long.



Could not have said it better myself.

The controller is fun for exactly the ammount of time that it amazes u because its new and different. Once u get used to it and the excitement of holding it goes away (Wich dosent take more than a week), there is nothing left because it has no precision and its not fun to use it at all.
Nintendo knows this, wich is why they have only been able to make stupid mini-games that use the wii-mote to it's fullest. REAL games like Zelda are much more fun with a controller and its harder to get through the game with the wii-mote.

A gimmic, exactly.


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## C.Ash (Mar 5, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> Serious First Person Shooter and Real Time Strategy gamers use a keyboard and mouse, there are better controllers for other game types.  Controllers work better than keyboard and mouse in Racing and Sports games.



And then what do u use? The D-pad.. wich is the equivalent of the arrow keys.

Controllers are excellent for platformers because of their analog sticks.


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## ryboto (Mar 5, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> Exactly why I sold my Wii.



you're the first one I've heard of doing that.....if it were a gimmick, I don't think it would be able to help the console consistently sell as well as it has.  it's fun, and I'd buy one if i weren't in school.


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## hotrippr (Mar 5, 2007)

Wii is a different market, it is more of an inbetween crowd.  Inbetween as in I want to play but I dont want to play like or look like all the geeks.  And they want to play as a crowd and socialize, without being too nerdy.  Also parents like it for kids to get off their ass...until they figure out that they dont need to get off their asses.

I like the Wii for sports, and franchise games like Zelda, Metroid etc.  Then use the PC for all else.  I wonder if Xbox will ever morph into a PC, it basically is, but they should have threw in a keyboard and mouse.  I would like to see more sports games like Tigerwoods due out soon.  I have had the Wii for a while and still play regularly.  Its like that cereal... Wii is for the kid in me and PC for the whole grain goodness.


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## Joshmcmillan (Mar 5, 2007)

I think a Wii is by far the best choice of the 3. Wii is cheap and fun. Although it doesn't have a lot of games right now, either does any other console that has just been released. Plus it has Zelda twilight princess which can hardly be called not having any good games. As for graphics although it doesn't have eye stunning graphics like the ps3 and 360, you don't really look at the  screen and think how awful the graphics are, as well know one has seen what type of potential in terms of graphics the wii has because no games have fully exploited the wii's hardware. The wii is closest to being as good as a pc's controls because with the wiimote it's just like the mouse except you point rather then slide which gives an extra feel to shooting someone. And yes there is games they would be bad with the wiimote and in case you don't know you can attach a nun chuck to the mote which has an analog stick and then it's basically like using a normal controller except you have more freedom in how you hold it. I think basically all games on xbox and playstation you can get on computer, besides a minute few, and for everything els, there's wii.


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## Bob The Fish (Mar 5, 2007)

It all comes down to the fact that Nintendo, with a $400 (cnd) console was able to out sell the PS3 and even the people who tried to make a $$$$ of the PS3 traded in there PS3's for Wii's when they could not sell it. The Computer Indstery has proved that not everyone can afford hi-end specs and there for they play on the low and the medium spectrium. At least Sony waited for Blueray to be rdy for there console so that people can use HDMI, someing the 360 does not have for its HD content. The Wii controler is new there for everyone thinks it will fail. The console market needed something new other then shinny colores and bright lights and Nintendo has done that. I own a Wii and i know from playing a 360 that my friends cant have anyware near as much fun playing on a controler VS the Wii-mote.

Sum it up:
Nintendo: aimed at makeing gameing fun for everyone, cleary they have done there job. Now they just have to keep doing what they have been doing for years and they will be fine.
Sony: went with Blueray and HD gameing hopeing for secess, shame it cost Us the consumer $800.
MS: Still does not have Halo for there Power PC in a smaller overheating Box, had more launch problems then Sony or Nintendo. They cant offer HDMI or HD-DVD in one package. There HDD on the top was a good idea and X-box live is one of the best online gameing systems to date.


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## ktr (Mar 5, 2007)

Bob The Fish said:


> It all comes down to the fact that Nintendo, with a $400 (cnd) console was able to out sell the PS3 and even the people who tried to make a $$$$ of the PS3 traded in there PS3's for Wii's when they could not sell it. The Computer Indstery has proved that not everyone can afford hi-end specs and there for they play on the low and the medium spectrium. At least Sony waited for Blueray to be rdy for there console so that people can use HDMI, someing the 360 does not have for its HD content. The Wii controler is new there for everyone thinks it will fail. The console market needed something new other then shinny colores and bright lights and Nintendo has done that. I own a Wii and i know from playing a 360 that my friends cant have anyware near as much fun playing on a controler VS the Wii-mote.
> 
> Sum it up:
> Nintendo: aimed at makeing gameing fun for everyone, cleary they have done there job. Now they just have to keep doing what they have been doing for years and they will be fine.
> ...



there is a new 360 coming later this year, with a 65nm for cooler cpu, hdmi...and still no clue on the built-in hd-dvd player...in addition to 120gb hdd and IPTV...a rumor price of 650 (might include the hd-dvd). Also promising games. the 360 is the better console in the long run.


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## Benpi (Mar 5, 2007)

LoL, it's funny how people try to defend the PS3, who don't even own the thing.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 5, 2007)

C.Ash said:


> And then what do u use? The D-pad.. wich is the equivalent of the arrow keys.
> 
> Controllers are excellent for platformers because of their analog sticks.



I almost never touch the D-pad unless I am in menus or something like that.  Digital control in a racing game is nothing but suck.



Bob The Fish said:


> Nintendo: aimed at makeing gameing fun for everyone, cleary they have done there job.



I have to disagree with you.  I got rid of my Wii because I was not having fun with it.  Personally I can only have so much fun playing nothing but mini-games using the, in all honesty, poor controller.  If Nintendo would have made the controller accurate and responsive it might have been different, but as it is right now the controller simply doesn't function the way I think it needs to.  Zelda was the only reason a really got the console, and in the end I was left with a bad taste in my mouth from both the game(it really was as good as I expected from a Zelda game) and the console.  To many of their games rely on minigames, which can only be fun for so long.


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## Joshmcmillan (Mar 5, 2007)

Zelda has 1 mini game, and if you think it's bad, you must be different from 99.5% of people which like it(not just a guess). The remote is very accurate, in my opinion. And just because 3 of the 20 or so games out SO FAR right near the start of the console are based on mini games doesn't mean all wii games are.


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## Bob The Fish (Mar 5, 2007)

I have to disagree with you.  I got rid of my Wii because I was not having fun with it.  Personally I can only have so much fun playing nothing but mini-games using the, in all honesty, poor controller.  If Nintendo would have made the controller accurate and responsive it might have been different, but as it is right now the controller simply doesn't function the way I think it needs to.  Zelda was the only reason a really got the console, and in the end I was left with a bad taste in my mouth from both the game(it really was as good as I expected from a Zelda game) and the console.  To many of their games rely on minigames, which can only be fun for so long.[/QUOTE]

I disagree, my Mother who hates gameing was haveing a blast boaling, allong with her boyfriend. Seems to make games fun for everyone to me.


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## shoman24v (Mar 5, 2007)

They are selling so well because of the price and because it includes a game


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## newtekie1 (Mar 5, 2007)

Joshmcmillan said:


> Zelda has 1 mini game, and if you think it's bad, you must be different from 99.5% of people which like it(not just a guess). The remote is very accurate, in my opinion. And just because 3 of the 20 or so games out SO FAR right near the start of the console are based on mini games doesn't mean all wii games are.



I thought Zelda was a disappointment(then again I haven't really liked any of the 3d zelda games).  The controls were clunky, and the game was just not entertaining to me.  Saddly the controller setup is designed with nothing but these kiddy mini-games in mind, when it is used in any other format it become clunky and down right frustrating to use.  Racing games are almost impossible to play with the controllers, they work OK when you are on the track and doing well, but the instant you lose control the controller becomes almost useless to try and get yourself going the right way again(Excite Truck and NFS:C both suffer heavily from this problem).  I'm not saying that all the game are mini-game based, just the popular ones and the ones that the gimmicky controller relies on.  If you think the controller is accurate then go play a game of Wii golf, were you can do a backswing and the club on the screen just sits there doing nothing, then you bring the controller back down to start again the the ball goes flying.


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## Benpi (Mar 5, 2007)

I _was_ the biggest fan of Zelda on the face of the earth.  I beat the original Zelda when I was 3 years old.  Since playing Ocarina of Time (best game ever at the time) I have been waiting 10 years for another Zelda like it.  Finally Twilight Princess comes out, and the controls are totally gay.  I expected the sword to follow my movements.  How cool would that have been?  I played that game for 2 hrs then quit


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## Joshmcmillan (Mar 5, 2007)

If you look on any game rating site, then your opinion is different from most people that played the game. Zelda: Ocarina of time is STILL rated the best game of all time and nintendo have done just as good a job on twilight princess.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 5, 2007)

Well I guess I should just start basing my opinions on what others tell me they whould be(by the way, Mario Brothers, not Ocarina of Time, is usually at the top of every rating list). And the game is not more accurate than Gamecube version with a controller.  The Wii controller system is extremely clunky and innaccurate, fast movements of any kind cause it to freak out and usually means it won't register any movement at all, which is not good for any type of action game.


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## Completely Bonkers (Mar 5, 2007)

Wii2 FTW

I can't disagree with the controller points raised here... I think it's bound to happen on a budget controller introducing a new design and whole set of new features.  And I can't disagree that some of the games are fun for a few minutes but then become tiresome. And I can't disagree that the graphics are limited (compared to PS2 or X360).

But compare some of the early PS1 or PS2 games at launch with the games released at the end of their development lifecycle. Once the developers knew how to do stuff... had more experience... and tried new concepts... the games just got better (well, not all).

I think that the games for Wii will improve a great deal over the next 9 months. The developers, having seen how succesful the Wii is, are going BONKERS trying to write games/entertainment for the device.

And I think that nintendo have achieved a real strategic win... which will encourage them to invest in software, and upscale the Wii2 design a little. Fix the bugs. Add a little horsepower. Launch sooner. Can't wait.


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## Joshmcmillan (Mar 6, 2007)

I'm not sure if it was a mistake but you said the graphic of wii aren't as good as ps2 or xbox 360, I think you meant to say ps3 because wii has better graphics then a ps2 and xbox 1 but not as good as ps2 and xbox 360.


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## prime95 (Mar 6, 2007)

Just in defense of Z:OOT - It was the first game to receive a perfect score by Famitsu, and has continued to recieve perfects cores by sites such as IGN....

Wii isn't really childish either, its just not black, advertised with flames and telekinetic babies.  It doesnt do those things (neither do the consoles that are advertised like that), it just plays games.  The people that claim Nintendo is all 'childish' are the ones who cant hold attention longer than goldfish and scream at their computer in CSS, then go play Halo 2 and sniper everyone with their skillzzzz just before asking for money to buy a ps3 cuz all their frendz got 1.


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## Joshmcmillan (Mar 6, 2007)

If you look on this site:
http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/simpleratings.asp?rankings=y
which has an average of a lot of sites for game rankings, in the top 6 there is 1 game that isn't made for a nintendo console, number 1 is ocarina of time for nintendo 64, 2 is soul caliber for dreamcast, 3 is metroid prime for gamecube, 4 is resident evil for gamecube, 5 is goldeneye for nintendo 64, 6 is mario 64 for nintendo 64. If you look at the site in the next 4 there is 1 xbox, 1 pc, 1 ps1 and 1 ps2. So that makes the record for the top ten games of all time:

Nintendo- 5
Sony- 2
Xbox- 1
Dreamcase- 1
PC- 1

And for those who think twilight princess is a bad game, then your obviously not like most people because twilight princess came 16th.


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## ryboto (Mar 6, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> The Wii controller system is extremely clunky and innaccurate, fast movements of any kind cause it to freak out and usually means it won't register any movement at all, which is not good for any type of action game.



how fast are you moving the damn thing??  we were playing Sports, and it registered even the oddest of motions.  I'll agree, that sometimes, if you're making very large range of motion moves, it might not register, but unless I whip the controller as fast as I can, it will register...how fast do you want it to respond?? if you were playing an fps, and it was that sensitive, the smallest motion could completely spin you around.  I'm waiting for an FPS on this console that can show us exactly what we've been waiting for.  Metroid's controls are supposedly just that.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 6, 2007)

Not that fast, like I said, even the simple movement of a quick backswing in Wii Golf causes the motion capture system to freak out and not register any movements.  In racing games, you can turn the controller left to take a big turn, and suddenly the car is turning right.  In Wii Tennis you can swing at a ball coming toward you and it won't register you swung at all.  There was more than on occasion in Twilight Princess where I was swinging the Wiimote frantically fighting and it would only take every other swing, sometime I would have to swing 3 or 4 times just to get Link to swing once in the game.  Perhaps I am just quicker than your average 5 year old, and the system just simply wasn't made to register such quick movements, but those quick movements are required for action games like Zelda, so it is a huge flaw.



Joshmcmillan said:


> And for those who think twilight princess is a bad game, then your obviously not like most people because twilight princess came 16th.



Well I have a few problems with Gamerankings.com. The first on is that they only rate games from 2000 or newer.  So none of the classics are even considered.  Secondly, Twilight Princess came in 16th, but Wind Waker came in 19th, and that is arguably the worst Zelda game there ever was(with the exception of Zelda 2), Zelda fans still argue about how bad Wind Waker was.  So the fact that Twilight Princess came in only 3 spots ahead of (arguably) the worse Zelda game ever isn't helping your argument that most people liked it.  I will agree that the majority of people that played it probably like it, but I didn't, and I was rather disappointed that I bought a system for the game and it wasn't that good.  However, I would not agree that most or a large majority found it as good as they hoped, or even half as good as they hoped.  I think it is more split like Wind Waker, my guess would be about 60% liked it, while 40% didn't, while Wind Waker is more like 50/50.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 6, 2007)

computer   consol

more usefull
by the time you need a bd/hd-dvd drive they will be cheap(same as with dvd) 
better overall games, im not saying some consol games arent fun, but the only kind of games on consol i like are fight games and coop shooters(halo coop is fun) 

PC:
RTS
RPG
FPS
MMORPG
ACTION
TFPS(tactical fps) 
MECH
sidescroll (yeah is an older format but still fun  )
building(games like the tycoon seirse)
sim games(sim city class of games)
race games (with gamepad or joystick, but best with wheel)
flight sims(same as above) 

consol:
spots games(eww)
fight games(better 1:1 with xbx style gamepad)
race games(best with wheel on a pc tho)
cheesy kid games.

also my pc can do somethings the consols cant, 

surf the net and post on forums, print or safe stuff i find
do work such as typing up reports/papers
play music
play any format of movie/video i could wish to watch.
downloadable game and program content, free and pay.

and the biggist one, ITS FULLY UPGRADEABLE!!!!! i can slap new parts in anytime i like/can afford to improve it in many ways 

Wii is made for kids as was the gamecube, nintendo has alwase been about KIDS FIRST, thats just how they are, sega use to be more adult/older kid orented, but since they commited suicide by not giving the dreamcast dvd playback its been left to sony and ms to take over the older player market, neither has done a perfect job but i would take an xbx over anything sony makes just because i know its gonna get better support from the maker.

ms sees something on the horizion that many of you arent seeing, a day when consol games and pc games will be out at the same time and in numbers, i dont like vista but dx10 is a move to allow EASY ports from pc to consol or consol to pc, smart move ms, tho honestly a few game engines already allow this, check out torque game engine 

i personaly would rather buy/upgrade a pc then buy a consol, it can do ALOT more then just play some cheesy games


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## WarEagleAU (Mar 6, 2007)

I like RPGs on consoles personally and sports games. I think the Wii will continue to do well. I just hope they get more software support for it, and not just from Nintendo. Brother and I were at Gamestop and checking out Sonic for the DS, Wii and Xbox360. That game looks beautiful and fun on all three consoles. I played the Wii and I like it, but its a gimmick. Good thing is, you can buy an SNES style control pad for the Wii, when you get bored with the Wiimote and Nunchuku.

 On a different note, Id like to see Fire Emblem come to the Wii with a few games. I dont know about you all, but I love that game.


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## Joshmcmillan (Mar 6, 2007)

Something I have noticed, and probebly is the reason people are complaining about the remote not recognising movement is that you have to have the wiimote in 1 angle in the game. Like in tennis you couldn't hold the wiimote upside down or it wouldn't register the movement, but in golf it allows you to hold it on it's side. You are COMPLETELY wrong if you think that gamerankings  only rates games from 2000 and newer when just in the top ten there is zelda ocarina of time which was 1996, mario 64 which was from around 1995 to 96(I think) but only like 2 or 3 games on 64 games out after 2000and gamerankings has a lot of games from the console. Also they have games from playstation 1 which also came out before 2000. And with wind waker many people thought it was a good game it just doesn't compare to the previous two zelda titles on the 64. And also your figures that half people don't like wind waker and 40% don't like twilight princess, that is definitely wrong. IF you go onto a console gaming site like ign.com and look at the forums there 95% of people would LOVE twilight princess. Most people here wouln't have played it, being a computer site.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 6, 2007)

Joshmcmillan said:


> You are COMPLETELY wrong if you think that gamerankings  only rates games from 2000 and newer when just in the top ten there is zelda ocarina of time which was 1996, mario 64 which was from around 1995 to 96(I think) but only like 2 or 3 games on 64 games out after 2000and gamerankings has a lot of games from the console. Also they have games from playstation 1 which also came out before 2000. And with wind waker many people thought it was a good game it just doesn't compare to the previous two zelda titles on the 64.



Sorry I should have said that they don't rate any classic games, and not put an actual date.  There are some pre-2000 games on the list, however I don't see a single NES or SNES game.  Which is my point, you can't have a valid all time game ranking site and exlude two of the most popular consoles ever, and you certainly can't use that site to claim anything about how popular games are.



Joshmcmillan said:


> And also your figures that half people don't like wind waker and 40% don't like twilight princess, that is definitely wrong. IF you go onto a console gaming site like ign.com and look at the forums there 95% of people would LOVE twilight princess. Most people here wouln't have played it, being a computer site.



No, I don't think they are wrong, I think they are pretty accurate, not exact, but as good as any other guess.  And just because this is a computer site doesn't mean we haven't played games.  Computer geek and Video games tend to go along together very well.


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## ryboto (Mar 6, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> Not that fast, like I said, even the simple movement of a quick backswing in Wii Golf causes the motion capture system to freak out and not register any movements.  In racing games, you can turn the controller left to take a big turn, and suddenly the car is turning right.  In Wii Tennis you can swing at a ball coming toward you and it won't register you swung at all.  There was more than on occasion in Twilight Princess where I was swinging the Wiimote frantically fighting and it would only take every other swing, sometime I would have to swing 3 or 4 times just to get Link to swing once in the game.  Perhaps I am just quicker than your average 5 year old, and the system just simply wasn't made to register such quick movements, but those quick movements are required for action games like Zelda, so it is a huge flaw.



I guess you got a semi-defective unit, my cousins registers everything...he can basically make the game do whatever he wants.  If the quick movements are required, and the games can't read them, then the system is flawed, however, it makes more sense that you're not using it correctly.  I never had an issue with the controller in Twilight princess, the sword only swings so fast, you swinging back and forth franticly wouldn't really get much out of Link.  Guess you just got a bad unit?


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## zekrahminator (Mar 6, 2007)

JoshMcmillian: Quit saying Newtekie1 is wrong all the time, unless you have links to legitimate sources to back up your claims. Otherwise, I'm going to start giving you infractions for insulting him. You've been reported once already....why do you think there's a "last edited by ME" signature under some of your posts?


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## AshenSugar (Mar 6, 2007)

wii controlers are the way they are because so many stupid people move the controls thinking its gonna help move whats on the screen, so nintendo figuared "why not use it" lol

i remmber playing mario brothers games against my aunt she moved her arns so much it was funny, guess she thought moving the contorler up would make mario jump higher, or farther so he wouldnt fall and die 

again a time when things are changed to take advantege of the weak minded 

and zek, i agree, i think somebodys stalking somebody....not good......asking for an infraction


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## ryboto (Mar 6, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> Wii is made for kids as was the gamecube, nintendo has alwase been about KIDS FIRST, thats just how they are, sega use to be more adult/older kid orented, but since they commited suicide by not giving the dreamcast dvd playback its been left to sony and ms to take over the older player market, neither has done a perfect job but i would take an xbx over anything sony makes just because i know its gonna get better support from the maker.



To say that the company is "kids first" focused is highly ignorant.  Please use some tact, support your opinions with real examples.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 6, 2007)

ryboto said:


> I guess you got a semi-defective unit, my cousins registers everything...he can basically make the game do whatever he wants.  If the quick movements are required, and the games can't read them, then the system is flawed, however, it makes more sense that you're not using it correctly.  I never had an issue with the controller in Twilight princess, the sword only swings so fast, you swinging back and forth franticly wouldn't really get much out of Link.  Guess you just got a bad unit?



I'm not the only one on my block with a Nintendo Wii, I have experienced the same problems on every one I have used, and it isn't just me experiencing the problems.  In fact I have 5 friends that bought the system on launch(we stood in line together to get them actually).  We all have the same problems and frustrations.  You don't even want to know how many times I have heard "Son of a %&@*#!  I swung the stupid thing!  Why did he just stand there doing nothing?!?!" during a game of doubles tennis and it wasn't me saying it.  All 5 of us complained of the same issues, the controller idea is a great idea, but Nintendo really dropped the ball implementing it and then relied far to heavily on it.  I mean come on, it is broken by light!  I had to change the bulbs in my livingroom lights from the florecent spiral energy efficient ones back to the original incandecent bulb just to get it to work at all.

The system simply gets gimmick and un-fun far too quickly, IMO.  Which is why out of the original 5 friends that bought it that first day, two have sold it, one has given his away to a relative, and another traded theirs for an Xbox360.  And the one that still has his is the Nintendo fanboy of the group(every group of gamer friends has one, you know who you are), he still has his Virtualboy, and still claims it's only downfall was that it was too "ahead of its time".


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## AshenSugar (Mar 6, 2007)

hey dont get mad because you play a consol primarly made for kids, check into nintendos game lineup for past consols, most are made for kids, rarely do you see more mature content, and no im not talking about prOn games, im talking about good shooters, good fight games, non noobish rpg type games, zelda last i saw was still to kiddy for me, the OLD one for new and snes was fun, but it was a kids game, nintendo is marketing at kids primarly, now they are using adults playing games to try and draw adults into playing with the Wii, but its still a consol mostly made for kids, i wasnt saying its a bad thing, thats just the market niche fill and they fill it well, they are trying to get more mature audiance now, and thats koo, infact if thy can get some decent titles for older players that will be great, bring them in line with the xbx/xbx360 insted of the nes,snes,n64,gc type games where 98% of the games put on the consols are for kids and have very little appeal to the avrage older gamer, i mean common "super mario cart" and games of that level are only fun for so long if your not a kid, at least snes has mortal kombat and fatalities, tho the genisis version was better( i had the nes,snes and was given a gc and 50games, i sold them all    ) 

im not a consol fan anymore, havent been for years, fight games and coop mode games like halo are the only things that keep me playing consols with friends, and thats more about interacting with another person in a game that dosnt suck then it is about the console being a great platform for it, if i could find good fight games for pc i could play them 1:1 here no problem i got 2 systems more then capable of such.
and...well halo pc sucks.....no coop......poor balance in MP mode........BAD PORT BAD BAD BAD!!!!!


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## zekrahminator (Mar 6, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> prOn games!


I want to see someone try to make one....how ever would you get away with doing it? I mean, after you get the Adult Only rating, what would be the plot? Screw all the girls in the least time? Get a girlfriend and keep her? (<--- I like that goal, but only in real life, shouldn't have to resort to games to get that)

Or for hilarity, have sex with the most things (such as horses ) in the shortest amount of time? 

Maybe that's why they don't make any...lol.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 6, 2007)

ryboto said:


> To say that the company is "kids first" focused is highly ignorant.  Please use some tact, support your opinions with real examples.



Just take a look at the majority of games released for Nintendo Consoles compared to the ones released on other consoles.  Look at the games put out by Nintendo, all the Mario games, I can't even think of an adult oriented game actually made and put out by Nintendo.  Can you?


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## AshenSugar (Mar 6, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> I'm not the only one on my block with a Nintendo Wii, I have experienced the same problems on every one I have used, and it isn't just me experiencing the problems.  In fact I have 5 friends that bought the system on launch(we stood in line together to get them actually).  We all have the same problems and frustrations.  You don't even want to know how many times I have heard "Son of a %&@*#!  I swung the stupid thing!  Why did he just stand there doing nothing?!?!" during a game of doubles tennis and it wasn't me saying it.  All 5 of us complained of the same issues, the controller idea is a great idea, but Nintendo really dropped the ball implementing it and then relied far to heavily on it.  I mean come on, it is broken by light!  I had to change the bulbs in my livingroom lights from the florecent spiral energy efficient ones back to the original incandecent bulb just to get it to work at all.
> 
> The system simply gets gimmick and un-fun far too quickly, IMO.  Which is why out of the original 5 friends that bought it that first day, two have sold it, one has given his away to a relative, and another traded theirs for an Xbox360.  And the one that still has his is the Nintendo fanboy of the group(every group of gamer friends has one, you know who you are), he still has his Virtualboy, and still claims it's only downfall was that it was too "ahead of its time".



haha, lightbulbs....HAHA

and virtualboy.....omfg, that things horrable, i was around when it came out and ppl wanted it i tryedit at target and didnt want it at all.....gamebody>virtualboy...

a buddy of mine still has 2 of them and every game ever made for them, even ones u couldnt get in the states dirrectly, same thing, he likes to say it was ahead of its time........

its CRAP.....but then again i bet ryboto loves his virtualboy........probbly as a couple and thinks they where ahead of their time


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## AshenSugar (Mar 6, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> I want to see someone try to make one....how ever would you get away with doing it? I mean, after you get the Adult Only rating, what would be the plot? Screw all the girls in the least time? Get a girlfriend and keep her? (<--- I like that goal, but only in real life, shouldn't have to resort to games to get that)
> 
> Or for hilarity, have sex with the most things (such as horses ) in the shortest amount of time?
> 
> Maybe that's why they don't make any...lol.



um zek, look up "hentia games" there are THOUSANDS of hentia games, those are prOn games, japneese, mostly about getting laied by as many of the chicks in the game as possable........

you dont tend to find them in the states because americans honestly are to proodish to coap with them, but in japan.....any game store you go into is likely to have some "H" titles.


and FYI  hentia=good


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## ryboto (Mar 6, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> I'm not the only one on my block with a Nintendo Wii, I have experienced the same problems on every one I have used, and it isn't just me experiencing the problems.  In fact I have 5 friends that bought the system on launch(we stood in line together to get them actually).  We all have the same problems and frustrations.  You don't even want to know how many times I have heard "Son of a %&@*#!  I swung the stupid thing!  Why did he just stand there doing nothing?!?!" during a game of doubles tennis and it wasn't me saying it.  All 5 of us complained of the same issues, the controller idea is a great idea, but Nintendo really dropped the ball implementing it and then relied far to heavily on it.  I mean come on, it is broken by light!  I had to change the bulbs in my livingroom lights from the florecent spiral energy efficient ones back to the original incandecent bulb just to get it to work at all.
> 
> The system simply gets gimmick and un-fun far too quickly, IMO.  Which is why out of the original 5 friends that bought it that first day, two have sold it, one has given his away to a relative, and another traded theirs for an Xbox360.  And the one that still has his is the Nintendo fanboy of the group(every group of gamer friends has one, you know who you are), he still has his Virtualboy, and still claims it's only downfall was that it was too "ahead of its time".



sorry to hear your opinion of it like that.  I was playing at ebgames, and several people came up to me and asked me if i owned one, telling me they're buying more games for their wii.  Both of my cousins have one, and I've yet to hear anything negative from them.  I've played it, and apart from a few times when it didn't register the control because I made an awkward movement, I've never had issues.  Personally, it's the only console I'd consider, I just cant stand analog sticks for anything but racing.


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## Completely Bonkers (Mar 7, 2007)

I've never owned a console. In fact, I've not spent more than about 10 minutes TOTAL playing a console.   But, I have taken a view.  Nintendo's got a better "retail product strategy" than SONY... and as an investor... my stock investments have moved.

More than that, with all the P.R. fauxpas from SONY and the paradigm shift in entertainment concept from Nintendo... if i *were* to get a console, I think I'd be getting the Wii, because I agree with the philosophy.  And now that's interesting... if Nintendo used that *philosphy* concept in their marketing and brand management more... they would build a very large, strong and loyal customer base ready for Wii2 and software.


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## ryboto (Mar 7, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> hey dont get mad because you play a consol primarly made for kids, check into nintendos game lineup for past consols, most are made for kids, rarely do you see more mature content, and no im not talking about prOn games, im talking about good shooters, good fight games, non noobish rpg type games, zelda last i saw was still to kiddy for me, the OLD one for new and snes was fun, but it was a kids game, nintendo is marketing at kids primarly, now they are using adults playing games to try and draw adults into playing with the Wii, but its still a consol mostly made for kids, i wasnt saying its a bad thing, thats just the market niche fill and they fill it well, they are trying to get more mature audiance now, and thats koo, infact if thy can get some decent titles for older players that will be great, bring them in line with the xbx/xbx360 insted of the nes,snes,n64,gc type games where 98% of the games put on the consols are for kids and have very little appeal to the avrage older gamer, i mean common "super mario cart" and games of that level are only fun for so long if your not a kid, at least snes has mortal kombat and fatalities, tho the genisis version was better( i had the nes,snes and was given a gc and 50games, i sold them all    )



by older-targeted games, you want mature rated games?  I'd like to see kids beat mario sunshine, as gay and sissy as the name sounds, it isn't a kid-level game.  It's also entertaining.  I agree, that nintendo's first party titles don't typically have mature ratings, but that means they were _meant_ for kids?  seriously, that's a stretch.  But, I'm not a typical console player, I rarely single-player console games, mostly I play part games.  The times I do, I only play nintendo first party titles because they're the only games that are different from typical shooters and general public games available on the PC/other consoles.  



> Just take a look at the majority of games released for Nintendo Consoles compared to the ones released on other consoles. Look at the games put out by Nintendo, all the Mario games, I can't even think of an adult oriented game actually made and put out by Nintendo. Can you?



Can you name some made by Sony?  Microsoft made Halo and Gears of War, am I missing any other mature titles?  Nintendo doesn't make realistic simulations, well, I thought Mario golf was a better sim than the arcade-like tiger Woods, still, Nintendo relies on their classic characters.  They have many party games, but just because they don't use guns or swords doesn't make the game any less fun.  I guess that's just my opinion.  I'm not sure how you could even describe adult-oriented.  While in EBgames, 2 men, with their wives/girlfriends, easily in their 40's came up to me while I was playing the Wii demo, and told me I should get one because they love theirs.  You can't rely on nintendo for realistic themed games, that's what they need 3rd party developers for.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 7, 2007)

mario sunshine my buddys 7yo bro and 12yo sister beet in the first week they had it......its a kiddie game lol, made for kids......

nintendo dosnt allow alot of truely mature titles,  xbox has DOA3(boobies!!!!) doa vollyball and the other vollyball games, as does sony, i havent seen it on gc...and really dought it was ever made, nintendo never has in the past targeted the 16+ croud(when gamers start really being what i consider "mature gamers" en large)

and shooters on nintendo......best they managed from my exp has been crap like doom, a title thats OLD to be kind 

i dont just mean the level of the games made by sony,ms,nintendo themselves.

sony has banned "H" titles and even some non "H" titles in the past from being made/sold for their consols, the funny part is that in the past people would mod their ps1/2 to play them anyway 

ms, well from my exp xbox titles can be made by damn neer anybody my buddy in korea says that koren xbox games are very popular, these are made by koren dev groups and published in korea only, they also have some portable titles avalable if you want to hack you gameboy units to allow them, but they also have some very intresting koren players  portable mostly, stuff we dont see here because its hard to break into the us market.

he brought one over in jan that he has with 38+games, its color, lighted, has 56hr batt life on the stock rechargeable batt packs, he payed 120usd for it and 4 games(players choice of games) and its also able to be used as a multi player consol on the floor, think sega nomad or atari linx(one of the best products that was marketed so bad it never took off...) 

the games he had with him ranged from blah to great, a fight game much like mk but better gfx.

also it was capable of playing movies the games where held on eather sd cards or pcmcia cards(it has 3 slots) it can also take MD cartreges but from what he says the company hasnt implemented it yet, but the MD drives will come out at 20gb sometime this year and will be ordered with the game titles you want preinstalled, also you can already buy movies for it, and the quility puts the psp to shame.........true dvd quility titles, we watched iron monky and 2 jet lee movies when he was here, hooked it to the tv, steller, 

 it already playes divx/xvid, wmv,wma,ogg, h264 and some other batt time is lost when decoding some formats like h264 because its more intence to decode, it also can support mkv,ogm and some other formats as long as the video and audio used are supported by the players built in decoders(upgradeable by firmware) 

its a neet unit, but totaly unavalable here, and i dont see anybody putting one into the us market, because all we get are what sony,ms,nintendo shove at us.......

where i going to buy a consol type unit i would ask him to get me one and some games next time he comes back to visit family(he works for a koren company helping them market stuff outside korea)


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## ryboto (Mar 7, 2007)

AshenSugar said:


> mario sunshine my buddys 7yo bro and 12yo sister beet in the first week they had it......its a kiddie game lol, made for kids......



if you really want to make stuff up just to argue, i'm just going to stop.  Fanboy crap just gets out of hand.  Nintendo is allowing for more mature titles on the Wii, Manhunt 2 will be on the Wii.  Mario sunshine is rated E for Everyone, it wasn't MADE for Kids....seriously, ignant.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 7, 2007)

ryboto said:


> Can you name some made by Sony?  Microsoft made Halo and Gears of War, am I missing any other mature titles?  Nintendo doesn't make realistic simulations, well, I thought Mario golf was a better sim than the arcade-like tiger Woods, still, Nintendo relies on their classic characters.  They have many party games, but just because they don't use guns or swords doesn't make the game any less fun.  I guess that's just my opinion.  I'm not sure how you could even describe adult-oriented.  While in EBgames, 2 men, with their wives/girlfriends, easily in their 40's came up to me while I was playing the Wii demo, and told me I should get one because they love theirs.  You can't rely on nintendo for realistic themed games, that's what they need 3rd party developers for.



How fun a game is doesn't affect what audience it is targetted at.  Nintendo makes games that cater to the likes of young kids.  They make bright and shiney games with very little depth, throwing the same characters in over and over again(very Disney like).  I would guess that Mario is not only a plumber but also a professional at pretty much every sport by now after all the sports games Nintendo has put him in.  You will never see Nintendo publishing a game like God of War, Resistance: Fall of Man, The Getaway, or Twisted Metal Black(all made by Sony, fit my definition of adult oriented, and NOT a simulations).  Those are just the types of games you won't see put out by Nintendo.  The most adult oriented game Nintendo has put out thus far has been Twilight Princess and Super Smash Brothers Malee, and both of those are perfectly acceptable for my 10 year cousin old to play.  However I would never let him play something like God of War.



ryboto said:


> if you really want to make stuff up just to argue, i'm just going to stop.  Fanboy crap just gets out of hand.  Nintendo is allowing for more mature titles on the Wii, Manhunt 2 will be on the Wii.  Mario sunshine is rated E for Everyone, it wasn't MADE for Kids....seriously, ignant.



Mario sunshine is just one of the many games targetted at kids.  Just because if it rated E doesn't mean it is targetted at everyone, it just means that it is acceptable for everyone to play.  The teletubbies game is rated E for everyone too, are you going to say that is targetted at 18 year olds too?


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## ryboto (Mar 7, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> How fun a game is doesn't affect what audience it is targetted at.  Nintendo makes games that cater to the likes of young kids.  They make bright and shiney games with very little depth, throwing the same characters in over and over again(very Disney like).  I would guess that Mario is not only a plumber but also a professional at pretty much every sport by now after all the sports games Nintendo has put him in.  You will never see Nintendo publishing a game like God of War, Resistance: Fall of Man, The Getaway, or Twisted Metal Black(all made by Sony, fit my definition of adult oriented, and NOT a simulations).  Those are just the types of games you won't see put out by Nintendo.  The most adult oriented game Nintendo has put out thus far has been Twilight Princess and Super Smash Brothers Malee, and both of those are perfectly acceptable for my 10 year cousin old to play.  However I would never let him play something like God of War.



Nintendo doesn't push those games, because they aren't the developer..I really don't think Mario Sunshine was directed at kids.  I know the name suggests bright colors, and simple gameplay, but it's a mario game, targeted at fans of the franchise.  The games are good for parents looking to give their kids something wholesome to play, at the same time, there's a huge fanbase that expects a mario game, and that's who they make them for.  It's the DS that's marketed towards a younger audience.  I see sooo many ads for that system when I'm at my cousins and they watch Nickelodeon.  So...I'm through with this, you have your opinion I have mine.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 7, 2007)

ryboto said:


> Nintendo doesn't push those games, because they aren't the developer..I really don't think Mario Sunshine was directed at kids.  I know the name suggests bright colors, and simple gameplay, but it's a mario game, targeted at fans of the franchise.



Have you played Mario Sunshine?  I have, it is a kids game.  I don't see how anyone could say Mario Sunshine was targetted at adult gamers with a straight face.  That is my point exactly, Nintendo doesn't push or even attempt to promote adult oriented games.  A few 3rd party companies take it upon themselves to make adult games for the console because they know the audience is there, but Nintendo doesn't intend any of it's games or even the system to be targetted at adults.


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## ryboto (Mar 7, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> Have you played Mario Sunshine?  I have, it is a kids game.  I don't see how anyone could say Mario Sunshine was targetted at adult gamers with a straight face.  That is my point exactly, Nintendo doesn't push or even attempt to promote adult oriented games.  A few 3rd party companies take it upon themselves to make adult games for the console because they know the audience is there, but Nintendo doesn't intend any of it's games or even the system to be targetted at adults.



are you even reading my damn posts??  If nintendo was only selling to children they'd never make a profit.  Honestly, the game was fun.  I own it.  I never said it was geared towards adults.  I honestly don't know many "adults" that even play video games, there's not a very large adult market, teens, and young teens are a huge market.  I should know because all of my cousins are teens and of all 12 of them, more than half have their own gameboy or DS, and among then there are 2 gamecubes, a ps2, 2 wii's.  Nintendo targets their games to a broad age range, haven't you ever heard them talk about it? Or read about how they try to make games fun for everyone??  I never said they promote their games as being for adults, but I don't ever recall them saying, "mario sunshine, kids game!".  Seriously, It wasn't marketed to children.  They don't do a good job of marketing in general, but if everyone seems to think because the characters aren't proportional and don't carry a gun that the game is designed for children.  Nintendo has made it a point to say that they don't like to make deep games, or ultra realistic games.  Shallow, fun games like the mario/donkey kong/kirby franchises are a pick up and play when you can.  That's why I like them.  Metroid is too involved for me, requires me to devote more time than I have, just as Zelda would.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 7, 2007)

sorry m8 but "young teens" and "teens" below 16 are by most peoples defintion KIDS, and the adult gamer market is HUGE, i personaly sold over 200 xboxes when i worked part time at bestbuy back in the day, 2/3 of them went to people 18+ who wanted them to game on and watch movies, the rest where gotten by people who had kids, most of them wanted a game system that wasnt targeted at kids, nintendo targets kids.

sure the games are fun for a short time, or fun for simple minded people to play over and over, bright colors, pretty pictures, simple gameplay, nowonder you are in love with it.

and a little FYI for you, nintendo requiers game makers to get approval to put games on their consol leigaly, hence you dont see many if any true adult titles, you see E titles..

btw E means FOR KIDS, its "safe for all ages" hence its safe for kids to play.




newtekie1 said:


> Have you played Mario Sunshine?  I have, it is a kids game.  I don't see how anyone could say Mario Sunshine was targetted at adult gamers with a straight face.  That is my point exactly, Nintendo doesn't push or even attempt to promote adult oriented games.  A few 3rd party companies take it upon themselves to make adult games for the console because they know the audience is there, but Nintendo doesn't intend any of it's games or even the system to be targetted at adults.



exectly, and infact i know for a FACT that some titles have been refused by nintendo because they felt the content didnt fit what they wanted their consol to be, so they didnt approve it, forcing the company who spent all that time making it or porting it to port it to another consol......

and teletubies...ROFL, yeah thats a title anybody over the age of 7 is gonna want anything to do with..........well maby ryboto......he seems like the kinda person who thinks supermario brothers 3 was "for adults because its rated E"


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## newtekie1 (Mar 7, 2007)

ryboto said:


> are you even reading my damn posts??  If nintendo was only selling to children they'd never make a profit.  Honestly, the game was fun.  I own it.  I never said it was geared towards adults.  I honestly don't know many "adults" that even play video games, there's not a very large adult market, teens, and young teens are a huge market.  I should know because all of my cousins are teens and of all 12 of them, more than half have their own gameboy or DS, and among then there are 2 gamecubes, a ps2, 2 wii's.  Nintendo targets their games to a broad age range, haven't you ever heard them talk about it? Or read about how they try to make games fun for everyone??  I never said they promote their games as being for adults, but I don't ever recall them saying, "mario sunshine, kids game!".  Seriously, It wasn't marketed to children.  They don't do a good job of marketing in general, but if everyone seems to think because the characters aren't proportional and don't carry a gun that the game is designed for children.  Nintendo has made it a point to say that they don't like to make deep games, or ultra realistic games.  Shallow, fun games like the mario/donkey kong/kirby franchises are a pick up and play when you can.  That's why I like them.  Metroid is too involved for me, requires me to devote more time than I have, just as Zelda would.




Are you even reading mine?  I said that Nintendo makes games for kids.  They have just recently started the whole "anyone can play our games" campaign, the problem is that most of their games are still the same old boring crap that appeal to poeple under the age of 14.

There isn't a very large adult market?  O RLY?!?! "On average, gamers are 41 years of age..."  

Yep, Nintendo makes shallow fun games, like ones targetted at kids.  Adults don't want shallow games.  They want games with stories that are more than just "the evil man made everything dirty, clean it" or "the evil man kidnapped the princess/your friend/your mom, get them back", I can't even begin to count how many games have essentially that same story line from Nintendo.  Though I know who does find those story lines fun, KIDS!  Kids are the ones that can do the same boring task over and over again with no character development and no original storyline.


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## hotrippr (Mar 7, 2007)

To see what something is targeted at look at the media ads.  Who do they show playing the Wii?  Got to the Wii site and play the ads.  I see a "non gamer" audience being targeted.  People that dont know what a forum is...non geeks.  Now I dont get to watch the Disney channel very often so I have not seen those ads, the ads I have seen show a family, some cute college age chick and her friends, not too many "kids".   It seems like alot of people are posting on something that really isnt meant for them, fact is they are selling, and they are selling to adults.  everyone I know that has one actually have friends, yes, real life friends, and they play they Wii for drinking games and stuff do to do if you are bored at a get together.  The very name of the console implies who it is meant for.   This thread has turned into kinda of like an argument that a rice rocket is better than a Harley.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 7, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> Are you even reading mine?  I said that Nintendo makes games for kids.  They have just recently started the whole "anyone can play our games" campaign, the problem is that most of their games are still the same old boring crap that appeal to poeple under the age of 14.
> 
> There isn't a very large adult market?  O RLY?!?! "On average, gamers are 41 years of age..."
> 
> Yep, Nintendo make shallow fun games, like ones targetted at kids.  Adults don't want shallow games.  They want games with stories that are more than just "the evil man made everything dirty, clean it" or "the evil man kidnapped the princess/your friend/your mom, get them back", I can't even begin to count how many games have essentially that same story line from Nintendo.  Though I know who does find those story lines fun, KIDS!  Kids are the ones that can do the same boring task over and over again with no character development and no original storyline.



hehe exectly why i got sick of nintendo games, at least sega had some verity and orignal stuff back in the day.

and the lack of charictor development is something that i really hate in games and books, its why i just gave my copys of the hobbit and lotr away, they are way to kiddy in design, no char development, back in the day i thougth they where THE SHIT, corse i was a KID THEN, now after re-reading them all i realise how shallow they are compared to the works of the likes of Raymond E Fiest and CHRISTOPHER STASHEFF, and many others, and the movies tho well made lacked alot of what i thougth was important to the story, like the whole tom bombadill ark was removed.....
hopefully they dont fuck the hobbit up(i read someplace they are making it into a movie now...)
and for the love of god i hope they never make the simmerilion into a movie.......rofl hard to read or what?

blah i hate shallow games and movies and books.....im spoiled i guess, to many good books read


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## Joshmcmillan (Mar 7, 2007)

What's an infraction? How many do you need to be banned?


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## newtekie1 (Mar 7, 2007)

Joshmcmillan said:


> What's an infraction? How many do you need to be banned?



Infractions are just a way for the mod to say "Hey don't do that again" and a way for them to track the bad people and their history.  It works on sort of a points system, which I still don't totally understand.

It is really up to the mod on giving infractions or bans.  The mods have really started to be more lenient in recent months.  I don't think the infraction system was even used before a few month ago as the first time I acted out of line I was banned instantly.


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## Joshmcmillan (Mar 7, 2007)

There is a lot of kid games made by nintendo, but you can't say nintendo consoles are bad because of that, by other companies there is manhunt, resident evil and even by nintendo there is goldeneye.


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## Wile E (Mar 7, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> I want to see someone try to make one....how ever would you get away with doing it? I mean, after you get the Adult Only rating, what would be the plot? Screw all the girls in the least time? Get a girlfriend and keep her? (<--- I like that goal, but only in real life, shouldn't have to resort to games to get that)
> 
> Or for hilarity, have sex with the most things (such as horses ) in the shortest amount of time?
> 
> Maybe that's why they don't make any...lol.


Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude Uncut and Uncensored. That's all I have to say about that. lol


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## ryboto (Mar 7, 2007)

holy hell...well, It's 2 v 1 in here, and you guys are just as stubborn as I am.  Nintendo does not make Kid Games.  That's the truth.  Argue as much as you want, but the games ARE NOT designed for CHILDREN.  I like how someone said "sure the games are fun for a short time, or fun for simple minded people to play over and over, bright colors, pretty pictures, simple gameplay, nowonder you are in love with it"...fist, nice grammar in your posts, really commendable.  Second, I already said earlier, I like a DIFFERENT experience when I play consoles.  Xbox and PS don't really differ much in their experience, i can play similar games on the PC, I want something quick that I can play without hassle, but you're right, that makes me simple minded "lol"! If the average gamer is 41, that's quite the bs to me.  Of all the older men in my family, my friends family, my girlfriends family, all who are around that age, not one of them plays any sort of video game.  I take that back, two of them bought Wi''s for their 18 year old "kids", and they frequently play.  Lots of ADULTS with lives, jobs, families, don't have time for deep intense story lines, so simple gameplay is nice, it's quick, and easily sidelined if more important things come up.  If you want to play again, you don't have to try and remember where you were in a level, you just play.  Keep on believing that they make "kid" games, i gues by your definition, a 19 year old is a kid.  41 year olds are avg age for gamers..."O RLY?!"  i wont even read that because based on the statistics among 8 families I personally know, no one over the age of 21( outside of myself) frequently plays video games.  

I love statements like this "sorry m8 but "young teens" and "teens" below 16 are by most peoples defintion KIDS, and the adult gamer market is HUGE, i personaly sold over 200 xboxes when i worked part time at bestbuy back in the day, 2/3 of them went to people 18+ who wanted them to game on and watch movies, the rest where gotten by people who had kids, most of them wanted a game system that wasnt targeted at kids, nintendo targets kids."  

Since you say it happened, I can't say you made it up.  But it sounds oh so perfect for this situation to support your point.  I also love how you worked in the word "kids"...again...what games exactly were on those systems that couldn't be had on the gamecube.  Burnout series?  A few exclusive Mature rated titles on the Xbox and PS2?  I'm surprised you sold that many, judging from your intelligence and grammar in the forums, if you spoke like that I don't see how any one with common sense would listen to you.  Sure, lots of 18+ people play, but over the age of 25, that number falls, because people get jobs, have lives, games are at the very lowest of priorities.  

"blah i hate shallow games and movies and books.....im spoiled i guess, to many good books read "

really? doesn't seem to be helping your writing skills at all, well, I guess I can't say that, I don't know just how bad they were before.  I guess I'm one of the few people that don't need a huge story line to play a game??  In the video medium, film does that for me.


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## AshenSugar (Mar 7, 2007)

tyboto, read a damn book, a good one, not one of those shallow nintendo story style books.

try these titles
The Warlock Inspite of Himself
Magician (comes in 2 parts aprintice and master) 
rainbow six

that should help you understand why i find if funny you would say films/video give you a deep story...........lol


last thing insulting somebodys grammer and spelling.......childish at best, i actualy have an excuse for mine being so bad, its called dyslexia
never resort to attacking somebodys spelling or grammer as a way to disscredit them, where i truely in the mood to fight i  could correct all of your posts, tho due to my dyxlexia it would take alot of extra time, i got a 98% in english 101 when i took it, only lost the 2% because i missed quite a few days of class(damned flu) 




ryboto said:


> holy hell...well, It's 2 v 1 in here, and you guys are just as stubborn as I am.  Nintendo does not make Kid Games.  That's the truth.  Argue as much as you want, but the games ARE NOT designed for CHILDREN.  I like how someone said "sure the games are fun for a short time, or fun for simple minded people to play over and over, bright colors, pretty pictures, simple *gameplay*, *nowonder* you are in love with it"...fist, nice grammar in your posts, really commendable.  Second, I already said earlier, I like a DIFFERENT experience when I play consoles.  Xbox and PS don't really differ much in their experience, i can play similar games on the PC, I want something quick that I can play without hassle, but you're right, that makes me simple minded "lol"! If the average gamer is 41, that's quite the bs to me.  Of all the older men in my family, my friends family, my girlfriends family, all who are around that age, not one of them plays any sort of video game.  I take that back, two of them bought Wi''s for their 18 year old "kids", and they frequently play.  Lots of ADULTS with lives, jobs, families, don't have time for deep intense story lines, so simple gameplay is nice, it's quick, and easily sidelined if more important things come up.  If you want to play again, you don't have to try and remember where you were in a level, you just play.  Keep on believing that they make "kid" games, i *gues* by your definition, a 19 year old is a kid.  41 year olds are avg age for gamers..."O RLY?!"  i wont even read that because based on the statistics among 8 families I personally know, no one over the age of 21( outside of myself) frequently plays video games.
> 
> I love statements like this "sorry m8 but "young teens" and "teens" below 16 are by most peoples defintion KIDS, and the adult gamer market is HUGE, i personaly sold over 200 xboxes when i worked part time at bestbuy back in the day, 2/3 of them went to people 18+ who wanted them to game on and watch movies, the rest where gotten by people who had kids, most of them wanted a game system that wasnt targeted at kids, nintendo targets kids."
> 
> ...



those are just a few technicly wrong words.

also look at your suposition that "none of the men that age i know play games" and then consider how limmited your sample group is.

you know that MMORPG's are TARGETED AT OLDER MALES?, EverQuest1 and 2, WoW, AC, and many others are targeted spicificly at ADULT MALES, tho gamer chicks also get into them.
and guess what one of the top $ making game types are?
MMORPG's, kids cant afford to pay to play, but their pairnts can, some pairnts let the kid play, but i only know a few who let the kid play alone, most play themselves THEN get their kids and even wifes into it, becomes a family bonding acctivity.

sames true for people who enlarge buy microsoft and sony game systems, Wii is now trying to target an older market, guess why?

because after seeing the market studys and reasearch they are realising that they can make more off that market then they orignaly thought, also those gamers who played thwir systems as a kid are now "of age" and can afford consols and lots of games, that means more $ for nintendo, but the bulk of nintendo's games (for all generations of consol) are KID GAMES, google around a bit, nintendo has given interviews in the past and even admited their primary target was the kids to young teens(still kids) and that they try and keep titles on their consols approprete for all ages(kid safe titles) 

as i said read a good book, dont rely on movies/tv for your "deep storys".



people like tyboto just show what i have been saying for years, this countrys sliping into ignorance, kids today dont read books,they take their whole prespective on "entertainment" from hollywood......sad really.

i would go into more detail but its to damned early in the morning for that


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## newtekie1 (Mar 7, 2007)

ryboto said:


> Nintendo does not make Kid Games. That's the truth.  Argue as much as you want, but the games ARE NOT designed for CHILDREN.



Well lets make a rundown of a few of the games "not designed for children" shall we:

Donkey Kong Jr. Math
Kid Icarus
Pokemon Battle Revolution
Clubhouse Games
Nintendogs

Yeah, I am sure adults rushed out to the store to pick up Donkey Kong Jr. Math...

Now I didn't say Nintendo only makes kids game, just that they primarily make games that appeal to kids, in fact if you actually read some of my posts I state that they make some games that are geared towards adults like Super Smash Brothers.  However the majority of their games are aimed at entertaining kids, not adults.



ryboto said:


> I like how someone said "sure the games are fun for a short time, or fun for simple minded people to play over and over, bright colors, pretty pictures, simple gameplay, nowonder you are in love with it"...fist, nice grammar in your posts, really commendable.



First, if you are going to rip on someone for improper grammar you better damn well make sure every single one of your posts was 100% perfect in every grammatical way, including spelling.  Not capitalizing words, and mispelling words, then trying to rip on someone else for not using proper grammar just makes you look like an ass.

Secondly, this isn't an english paper we are writing here, it isn't formal writing.  This is an informal forum.  Which means you can check your grammar dictionary at the door, because no one cares(well no one except the person losing the argument that has nothing else to argue about).



ryboto said:


> Second, I already said earlier, I like a DIFFERENT experience when I play consoles.  Xbox and PS don't really differ much in their experience, i can play similar games on the PC, I want something quick that I can play without hassle, but you're right, that makes me simple minded "lol"!



Yes, we have already established that you enjoy the same types of games kids do.  We are telling you that most adults don't find those games entertaining for more then a few hours.  Adults want depth, they want a game that keeps them wondering what is around the next corner, what is going to happen next in the story.



ryboto said:


> If the average gamer is 41, that's quite the bs to me.  Of all the older men in my family, my friends family, my girlfriends family, all who are around that age, not one of them plays any sort of video game.  I take that back, two of them bought Wi''s for their 18 year old "kids", and they frequently play.



If it is BS prove that it is, or at least show another study that says that the average gamer isn't an adult.  The study I showed says the average is 41, if you can't come up with some form of independant study showing otherwise, don't claim BS, it is insulting.



ryboto said:


> Lots of ADULTS with lives, jobs, families, don't have time for deep intense story lines, so simple gameplay is nice, it's quick, and easily sidelined if more important things come up. If you want to play again, you don't have to try and remember where you were in a level, you just play.



Most adults still have time for a rather involving hobby.  Gaming is that hobby for a lot of them these days.  Some ADULTS spend 20 hours a week building planes as a hobby, others spend that time working on cars, and others spend that time playing games.  I find that I have more free time as an ADULT then I ever had while I was in K-12 school.



ryboto said:


> Keep on believing that they make "kid" games, i gues by your definition, a 19 year old is a kid.



Well I assume the 19 year old you speak of is you, I guess I should change my statment to they don't make games for mature people.



ryboto said:


> 41 year olds are avg age for gamers..."O RLY?!"  i wont even read that because based on the statistics among 8 families I personally know, no one over the age of 21( outside of myself) frequently plays video games.



Yep, 8 families vs. 1000 in the study, yep you sure have a winning argument there.  I'll tell you this right now: I am 23, and adult, all my friends are 21 or older, all of use with the exception of my girlfriend play video games.



ryboto said:


> really? doesn't seem to be helping your writing skills at all, well, I guess I can't say that, I don't know just how bad they were before.  I guess I'm one of the few people that don't need a huge story line to play a game??  In the video medium, film does that for me.



See statement about grammar comments above.


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## ryboto (Mar 7, 2007)

I can't battle with super nerds.  I didn't know that defending a point meant I had to defend nintendo from it's very birth.  I willr rescind my statement that they don't make games for children.  They have, and do, it's just not the only market they make games for. 

Mr. book reader guy, congrats, you read, I'm happy for you.  I'm happy that your opinion of film and television is different from mine.  You have absolutely no idea what my tastes are, but that's ok, you can have your opinions.  

Tekie,


> First, if you are going to rip on someone for improper grammar you better damn well make sure every single one of your posts was 100% perfect in every grammatical way, including spelling. Not capitalizing words, and mispelling words, then trying to rip on someone else for not using proper grammar just makes you look like an ass.
> 
> Secondly, this isn't an english paper we are writing here, it isn't formal writing. This is an informal forum. Which means you can check your grammar dictionary at the door, because no one cares(well no one except the person losing the argument that has nothing else to argue about).



the kid uses so many abbreviations, it's aggravating, and the spelling mistakes are quite numerous.



> Yes, we have already established that you enjoy the same types of games kids do. We are telling you that most adults don't find those games entertaining for more then a few hours. Adults want depth, they want a game that keeps them wondering what is around the next corner, what is going to happen next in the story.



Of all the fathers, uncles, professors, non-traditional students I know, none, not one, play video games.  Maybe my corner of america is a-typical?



> If it is BS prove that it is, or at least show another study that says that the average gamer isn't an adult. The study I showed says the average is 41, if you can't come up with some form of independant study showing otherwise, don't claim BS, it is insulting.



By simply thinking about the statement, that the average gamer is 41 years old, I can't even begin to consider the study you showed as very accurate, although, like I said, maybe I don't live in a reality similar to yours. 



> "Well I assume the 19 year old you speak of is you, I guess I should change my statment to they don't make games for mature people.



That's quite humerous.  I'm not 19, I'm a graduate student.  Be pretty impressive if i was a 19 year old Grad, nevertheless, your statement is not true.  A "mature" person can play a simple game, it's that they don't make mature-themed games. 



> Yep, 8 families vs. 1000 in the study, yep you sure have a winning argument there. I'll tell you this right now: I am 23, and adult, all my friends are 21 or older, all of use with the exception of my girlfriend play video games.



I'm just giving an example, If the avg gamer is 41 years of age, among 8 males, I'd think at least one would play, I'll expand my sample group, how bout that!  I'm the same age as you!  If this is the adult market you speak of, I guess that's where we're getting our wires crossed.  Nintendo makes games that can be fun for all ages.  I still enjoy them.  That doesn't mean I don't enjoy Half Life 2, or Fear, or BF2, or others, it just means I'm open to other entertainment that's not purely "mature" themed, or story based.


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## ryboto (Mar 7, 2007)

> last thing insulting somebodys grammer and spelling.......childish at best, i actualy have an excuse for mine being so bad, its called dyslexia
> never resort to attacking somebodys spelling or grammer as a way to disscredit them, where i truely in the mood to fight i could correct all of your posts, tho due to my dyxlexia it would take alot of extra time, i got a 98% in english 101 when i took it, only lost the 2% because i missed quite a few days of class(damned flu)



When someone calls me simple minded because one of my many interests happen to be simplistic, I take it as an insult.  I'm glad you got a 98% in english, really.


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## Thermopylae_480 (Mar 7, 2007)

Enough bickering.  If you can not argue in a civilized manner than no further arguement will be allowed to take place.  Understood?


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## zekrahminator (Mar 7, 2007)

Actually, Thermoplyae, I think they've already come to that. Anyone who thinks they have been wronged, drop me a PM with evidence, and I will ban the offender.


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