# Anti static bag alternative for transporting a motherboard



## stoggs1 (Feb 13, 2019)

So I am purchasing a used motherboard from a local seller in my area, however he does not have a box or anti static bag for it.

So is their a safe alternative for an anti static bag I can use to move it?

If Not other than ordering one online what are some stores or shops that might sell anti static bags?

I tried Micro center and the one in my area doesn't have any.

Thank you.


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## newtekie1 (Feb 13, 2019)

If you are just transporting it from the seller to your house locally, just move it, you don't need to always have it in a static bag.


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## ArbitraryAffection (Feb 13, 2019)

I stored some of my motherboards in cardboard boxes without an anti-static bag and sometimes when i'm tweaking my pc i have bare feet on my carpet and there's cat hairs all in my pc. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I don't think there will be a problem unless you're rubbing a floof all over it~


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## sneekypeet (Feb 13, 2019)

Usually the mom and pop PC shops will give them away for free if you ask. I have bought some in the past for selling things, and they can be had affordably at Amazon or the likes of eBay (although time may not allow).


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## stoggs1 (Feb 13, 2019)

Ok thanks their is an office depot near my house I might hit them up and their are couple of computer shops near me as well.

I am just being cautious I don't want to risk destroying or damaging the board.

Would a regular plastic bag be safe to put it in ?


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## John Naylor (Feb 14, 2019)

Can buy a box of 10 on Amazon for $10 ... any local PC store should be happy to give ya one.  Buy something you need or always wanted to get ... an anti-static wrist strap for $2.99 and while ya there ask for one.


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## ArbitraryAffection (Feb 14, 2019)

John Naylor said:


> Can buy a box of 10 on Amazon for $10 ... any local PC store should be happy to give ya one.  Buy something you need or always wanted to get ... an anti-static wrist strap for $2.99 and while ya there ask for one.


I literally cuddle my cat whilst touching the insides of my PC am i doing it wrong?


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## Jetster (Feb 14, 2019)

A box


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## MrGenius (Feb 14, 2019)

If I had a list of all the electronic components I've fried with an ESD...that list would be completely empty.

If I had a list of every time I could have potentially killed an electronic component with an ESD...that list would be so long it makes my head hurt trying to imagine it.

In theory...I believe in the use of things that protect electronic components from ESD damage. In practice...they may as well not exist. Because I don't bother with them.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 14, 2019)

stoggs1 said:


> So I am purchasing a used motherboard from a local seller in my area, however he does not have a box or anti static bag for it.
> 
> So is their a safe alternative for an anti static bag I can use to move it?
> 
> ...



Frys


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## Shambles1980 (Feb 14, 2019)

paper is surprisingly anti static in nature.


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## stoggs1 (Feb 14, 2019)

I have seen a few sources online that a brown paper bag is a safe alternative to an anti static bag so I will use one of those since I can get one at my local grocery store.

And their is no Frys near where I live.


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## John Naylor (Feb 14, 2019)

MrGenius said:


> If I had a list of all the electronic components I've fried with an ESD...that list would be completely empty.
> 
> If I had a list of every time I could have potentially killed an electronic component with an ESD...that list would be so long it makes my head hurt trying to imagine it.
> 
> In theory...I believe in the use of things that protect electronic components from ESD damage. In practice...they may as well not exist. Because I don't bother with them.



There is a reason that they are used.  You think any manufacturer would invest a buck for the bag + the labor to put the component inside the bag if it didn't REDUCE overall costs ?   It costs less to buy the bags than pay for the losses.   If I had a list of all the times my house burnt down, it would be empty ... but I'm not willing to take the risk by going without insurance.   In areas where the humidity is high, ESD is not an issue; in areas where surrounding surfaces are not conducive to static build up, it is not an issue.   I was building PCs for about 18 years before I bought a mod mat.  I never had damage, but I exercised care making sure to consider nearby surfaces, what I was wearing, time of year, and paying strict attention making sure to touch the case with PSU plugged in and grounded befor ever touching anything.   When went form one build a day to 3 or more ... wanted to work faster, wear what I wanted, work where I wanted and work without a though.   Now with case grounded to outlet, mod mat grounded to case, my ankle grounded to mod mat (wrist straps interfere with assembly)  ... I need not pay any attention and can work faster without concern of having to pay for someones $450 MoBo.

Note that the bag's purpose is not to discharge a static buildup but to protect it from creating one when the bag comes in contact with other surfaces such as placing the MoBo in a normal plastic bag and then letting it side back and forth in the box on the back seat of your car.  Good reading ... https://jh399.k12.sd.us/DailyAssign/Physics/ch7materialstaticelec.pdf


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## moproblems99 (Feb 14, 2019)

You'll likely be ok with just putting in as close to a fitting box as you can as long as you don't take part in a zumba class in sock on a carpeted floor while holding the motherboard.


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## biffzinker (Feb 14, 2019)

stoggs1 said:


> Ok thanks their is an office depot near my house I might hit them up and their are couple of computer shops near me as well.
> 
> I am just being cautious I don't want to risk destroying or damaging the board.
> 
> Would a regular plastic bag be safe to put it in ?


Don't use a regular plastic bag, there's a chance of shocking the component.


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 14, 2019)

The greatest risk is probably a static discharge from your fingers zapping a component on the board as you reach for the board. I recommend you first touch whatever the board is touching first when you take possession of it - even if that means poking the sellers hand first with your bare finger! Or wait for a foggy day to exchange it! 


sneekypeet said:


> Usually the mom and pop PC shops will give them away for free if you ask.


I think this is a very good idea. Because these bags are made of mylar and other plastics, and often coated with aluminum and other metals, they typically get saved until there is a big enough pile to get recycled. While global warming is definitely real, I'm not really a tree-hugger. But I for one, would sure prefer to see these bags get reused than tossed in a land-fill - especially if they help keep much more hazardous circuit boards out of the landfills!



stoggs1 said:


> Would a regular plastic bag be safe to put it in ?


Avoid plastic. A plain brown paper bag from the grocery store will do the trick. Even a wad of paper towel would be better than your bare skin. Leather (just make sure it is real leather and not fake) gloves can work too - if completely dry.

As a side note to remember, many of those anti-static bags are NOT anti-conductive. In fact, many are designed to be highly conductive on the exterior of the bag. This is to force any static that may come into contact with the bag to shunt around the outer surface of the bag instead of going through it and zapping the item inside. 

This is why those bags should NEVER be used to rest a motherboard (or graphics card) on - especially not to "hot test" motherboards on outside the case. An unfinished bread/cutting board, or a sheet of plain brown cardboard is best for that.


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## Vario (Feb 14, 2019)

As others have said, a cardboard box is fine.   Try to discharge yourself before handling the board, touch a large piece of metal in the room or the screws on a light switch, etc.  Only thing I've killed with static, strangely enough, was the Capslock LED on my FILCO keyboard about 4 years ago.  Was handling some bedding walked across the room touched the keyboard, I think it was the Left Control key, felt a big zap and the keyboard stopped working.  I unplugged and replugged it a few times and it started working again but since that time the Capslock LED has not worked.  I think these keyboards have a steel backing plate.  It was a used keyboard and I didn't pay much for it so I am content anyway.  Still works fine besides that.


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## EarthDog (Feb 14, 2019)

Leave it sitting on the seat? I don't see a need for this as long as you aren't shuffling your socked feet across carpet and touching the board. Simply normalizing potential is all that is needed (touch something grounded).


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## _UV_ (Feb 14, 2019)

I'm dealing with consumer grade electronics for more than 20 years, static is something least important than simple physical damage. If you care about static, use newspaper or pizza box and you would be fine. If you sure that you have static sensitive device you may use tinfoil.


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 14, 2019)

_UV_ said:


> I'm dealing with consumer grade electronics for more than 20 years, static is something least important


Only 20 years? Then we won't hold your obvious youthful lack of experience against you! 

That's great static has not been a problem for you. But do not assume it has not been or is not for others. *MUCH* depends on your local environment. I lived for many years in Tucson, Arizona, Phoenix, and Albuquerque and other very low humidity environments where static electricity was a very real problem. Add air conditioning or furnace heated air to the mix and you can have humidity readings down in the teens or lower. In our operations centers, we would walk around the rooms every hour or so with spray bottles of water just to mist the carpets to keep the operators from zapping the consoles. Even my home right now in Nebraska, where I have 6 inches of "partly cloudy" sitting on the ground outside, the humidity inside is sitting at a "dry" 35%. If I did not have large sections of hardwood flooring, static would be a problem.


_UV_ said:


> If you sure that you have static sensitive device you may use tinfoil.


Tinfoil? Besides the fact actual "tin" foil is rarely seen these days (I say it too but it is really aluminum), you don't want to wrap your electronics in something that will attract static, and then perhaps conduct it through to the ESD sensitive devices. So no aluminum (or tin) foil. Only something non-conductive.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Feb 14, 2019)

Take a  long bare copper wire and tie it to a belt loop leaving enough to touch both you and the ground...
You will literally be grounded at that point and won't have to worry about ESD.

Or just use a paper bag.
I'd use the paper bag.


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## dorsetknob (Feb 14, 2019)

Raid the kitchen for your kids Cardboard Cereal Box  (   avoid the one that says Snap Crackle pop  )
Should be Big Enough


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 14, 2019)

jmcslob said:


> Take a long bare copper wire and tie it to a belt loop leaving enough to touch both you and the ground...
> You will literally be grounded at that point and won't have to worry about ESD.


LOL This of course, will not work. To discharge from your body, your bare skin much do the discharging, not a belt loop. 

And the idea is to put you and the ESD sensitive device "at the same potential". This will prevent any voltage from arcing or jumping across the gap between you and the device. Neither you, nor the device has to be "grounded".


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## Deleted member 67555 (Feb 14, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> LOL This of course, will not work. To discharge from your body, your bare skin much do the discharging, not a belt loop.
> 
> And the idea is to put you and the ESD sensitive device "at the same potential". This will prevent any voltage from arcing or jumping across the gap between you and the device. Neither you, nor the device has to be "grounded".


That's why I said touching you and the ground and yes that absolutely does work.
 On my last job I packed raw plastic into metal bins and if you weren't grounded you would get a very serious ESD when you went to place the label on the bin.


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 14, 2019)

A belt loop is not a grounding strap. 

It is important to note there is a HUGE difference between packing plastic in metal bins and handling ESD sensitive devices. 

A microprocessor, memory module and other high density digital devices can be destroyed by a discharge so tiny we, as humans, cannot even see, hear or feel that a discharge occurred. We are talking voltages as little as 30V or even less. You were dealing with voltages likely into the many 1000s, perhaps 10,000, 30,000 or even higher. 

With a CPU, for example there can be a Grand Canyon size trench (microscopically speaking) torched through millions of transistor gates without you even being aware a discharge happened. Only under a microscope can the damage be seen - yet the CPU would be dead. This is exactly why, in the beginning of high density digital devices, it took years to understand why so many devices were failing, what ESD was, and how to prevent it. It was not until these failed devices were sent back to Texas Instruments, Motorola and the other early developers of these devices, and they could see the damage under microscopes, that schools started teaching about ESD and training techs to prevent it.

This is why ESD prevention in professional electronics assembly and repair facilities involves, among other precautions, wrist straps that attach and touch the flesh of your bare skin, and don't attach to belt loops.


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## EarthDog (Feb 14, 2019)

25 posts on how to handle a motherboard...


only at TPU...


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## Shambles1980 (Feb 14, 2019)

i think he means have 1 end of the wire touching your skin (possibly tucked in to your boxer shorts. then a little way down from there tie it to your belt loop and then have the trailing end touching the floor..
Undoubtedly this is just meant as a "funny comment" really don't think the reply's are needed lol


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## John Naylor (Feb 14, 2019)

Static charge is caused when 2 surfaces (one + and one -) rub together.  The greater the charge either way, the more static charge builds up.

Therefore allowing either one of them into the mix is best avoided.

*The bad (+) surfaces* from greatest to least concern include:

Air, Human Hands, Skin, Asbestos, Rabbit Fur, Glass, Human Hair, Mica, Nylon, Wool, Lead, Cat Fur, Silk, Aluminum,* Paper *

So best to avoid any of those.  Paper and cardboard are at the bottom of the list but still ***on the list***.

*The bad (-) surfaces* from least to greatest concern include:

Steel,  Wood, Lucite, Sealing Wax, Amber, Rubber Balloon, Hard Rubber, Mylar, Nickel, Copper. Silver, uv Resist surfaces, Brass, Synthetic Rubber, Gold, Platinum, SulfurAcetate, Rayon. Polyester, Celluloid, Polystyrene, Orlon, Acrylic. Cellophane Tape, Polyvinylidene chloride (Saran),  Polyurethane, *Polyethylene*, Polypropylene, Polyvinylchloride (Vinyl). Kel-F (PCTFE), Silicon, Teflon, Silicone Rubber.

Plastic bags are mostly based upon Polyethylene ... so two surfaces you definitely wouldn't want to have involved and near each other would be paper bag / cardboard and a plastic bag.  For more info see the link provided in previous post.


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## qubit (Feb 14, 2019)

I got away with transporting a mobo in a supermarket plastic bag and that mobo worked for years afterwards. Hardly a definitive endorsement, but it proves that it’s  possible to get away with it.

A regular cardboard box should be good enough here.


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 14, 2019)

Shambles1980 said:


> Undoubtedly this is just meant as a "funny comment" really don't think the reply's are needed lol


Since he reiterated it in a second post by stating this is what they did when stuffing plastic into metal bins, it was not meant as a funny comment. And for sure, with the potentials likely to be reached during that task, I am sure any path offering even a little less resistance would dissipate a substantial amount of the charge - but so would some different shoes. So I have no doubts his trick helped with that scenario. But again, that is totally different from ESD sensitive high-density digital electronics.

It will be pretty difficult to avoid aluminum when circuit boards and electrical components often contain a lot of it. I also note it is not just about the polarity of the charge, but the difference in potentials. That is, you can have a static discharge (or flow of current) between two positively charged objects (or two negatively charged objects) if the difference in the charge is great enough in relation to the gap. That is, +10,000V will jump to +100V (if the gap is small enough) because +100V is much closer to ground (less positive) potentials. 

What you don't want is a conductor between the source of the static and the circuit board. That's why aluminum would be bad as it is one of the best electrical conductors in all of physics. Plain brown paper from a grocery store would be good because it is about as close to plain wood (an excellent insulator) as you can get and still be able to wrap it around the board. Plus, such paper is easy to find, in the absence of an anti-static bag.



qubit said:


> I got away with transporting a mobo in a supermarket plastic bag and that mobo worked for years afterwards. Hardly a definitive endorsement, but it proves that it’s possible to get away with it.


It especially does not prove anything if you were in the UK at the time too - not exactly known for low humidity/high static environments. When I lived in East Anglia (RAF Mildenhall and RAF Lakenheath), we never worried about ESD - except in the environmentally controlled mainframe computer rooms.


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## John Naylor (Feb 15, 2019)

qubit said:


> I got away with transporting a mobo in a supermarket plastic bag and that mobo worked for years afterwards. Hardly a definitive endorsement, but it proves that it’s  possible to get away with it.
> 
> A regular cardboard box should be good enough here.



It's kinda like using a conductive or capacitive TIM.... it's possible, even likely / very probable to get away with it.  But the risk remains however small it may be.  A short car ride home is a very different thing than shipping and handling by FedEx ground gorillas.

You can always pick up some anti static spray at the HW store if you want to eliminate the risk

Maybe they should add it here ... when you get home it will smell better 

https://www.apartmenttherapy.com/20-household-uses-for-used-yes-46912


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