# ebike technology, tips/advice?



## Space Lynx (Jun 5, 2021)

I have been stacking all my money from my new job for new nature adventures, one thing I want to do is get an ebike... the Sondors brand is really only one I know of that is legit. lot of other companies seem sketchy... any other recommendations? anyone know of a bike that has hot swappable batteries? so I could get triple the range if I just put two extra batteries in a "basket on the front of the bike" (i intend to install a basket on whatever ebike I end up buying)

hoping to do 5-10 hour nature adventures, go deep on nature paths in state parks, etc.









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## Jetster (Jun 5, 2021)

Most of the upper tier have batteries that quickly swap out. Giant has a nice MTB for $2600 that has the newer tech and good range 60 miles average
The newer ones have the motor that mounts next to the bottom bracket which is better. But they get expensive real quick









						Talon E+ 29 3 (2021) |  Trail bike | Giant Bicycles US
					

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Crazy price buy check this one out 









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## AsRock (Jun 6, 2021)

Jetster said:


> Most of the upper tier have batteries that quickly swap out. Giant has a nice MTB for $2600 that has the newer tech and good range 60 miles average
> The newer ones have the motor that mounts next to the bottom bracket which is better. But they get expensive real quick
> 
> 
> ...



Top brands though, problem might be with those is getting 3rd party battery's and if they fail out of warranty how much that shit is going cost never mind could you mount a more traditional motor to one of those.


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## Jetster (Jun 6, 2021)

Your more likely to get replacement parts on the higher end ones then the cheaper ones. Although they will cost more but last longer

I'm just afraid the cheaper ones will only last a few seasons and that's it. Especially if you ride in sand

I've ridden trails for 30 years. Last few years have been hard so that's why I'm looking at e bikes.
Here is a local state park that I have ridden over 80 miles of trails at one time or another. (no e bike)







The Santa Cruz Heckler $9,000  47 lbs











Now here is one of the cheaper ones @ $1600   But it weighs 72 Lb and has a removable battery but average distance is only about 30 miles









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## 1freedude (Jun 6, 2021)

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Also check out



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I used to work on bikes for a living, so my thoughts on an ebike tend toward the 10KW range, prob way more than you want.

@Jetster have you been down Hwy 22 since Beachie fire?  I left Oregon right before that shitstorm blew up.  How did SFSP fare in all of that?


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## Operandi (Jun 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I have been stacking all my money from my new job for new nature adventures, one thing I want to do is get an ebike... the Sondors brand is really only one I know of that is legit. lot of other companies seem sketchy... any other recommendations? anyone know of a bike that has hot swappable batteries? so I could get triple the range if I just put two extra batteries in a "basket on the front of the bike" (i intend to install a basket on whatever ebike I end up buying)
> 
> hoping to do 5-10 hour nature adventures, go deep on nature paths in state parks, etc.
> 
> ...


I do a lot of riding, both trail and road, built my bikes (admittedly none of them are e-bikes) mostly myself and I've never heard of that brand.  That thing looks sketchy as fuck; essentially a generic fat bike frame with hub based motor and a batter wedged in the triangle and what look like generic components, and its not even cheap?  Looks very scam'ish to me....

It dosn't sound like you will be doing any aggressive trail riding so this Charge city bike might work well. Comes from an actual bike company with quality components and a Samsung battery. Its a "city bike" so if you plan on taking it on dirt paths a lot you'd want to swap out the tires but it comes with decently sized 40mm tires stock so you'd just need something with a more aggressive tread.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 6, 2021)

@Jetster and everyone else...  this one is $1299... but I don't know how to read the battery specs.  is it 60-80 mile range? thoughts on this one in general would be helpful... about the right price for me... and 500w should be plenty.









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## Operandi (Jun 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @Jetster and everyone else...  this one is $1299... but I don't know how to read the battery specs.  is it 60-80 mile range? thoughts on this one in general would be helpful... about the right price for me... and 500w should be plenty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No dude this generic garbage, stay away from it.


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## Kovoet (Jun 6, 2021)

I work in a bike shop, the best I've had the pleasure of working on has been a specialized and GT but that's in the UK.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 6, 2021)

I wish Elon Musk and Tesla would make an ebike... they already make the batteries for cars, would probably be fairly easy to mass produce a bike for 2-3 grand. plus those tesla batteries are top notch.


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## Operandi (Jun 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I wish Elon Musk and Tesla would make an ebike... they already make the batteries for cars, would probably be fairly easy to mass produce a bike for 2-3 grand. plus those tesla batteries are top notch.


What does Tesla know about bikes?, fucking nothing.  Its _bike _first the "e" is just the adjective in this situation.  In other words buy a bike from a bike brand...

Did you look at the Charge I linked to above?


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## Space Lynx (Jun 6, 2021)

Operandi said:


> What does Tesla know about bikes?, fucking nothing.  Its _bike _first the "e" is just the adjective in this situation.  In other words buy a bike from a bike brand...
> 
> Did you look at the Charge I linked to above?



i did, i'll consider it. not even sure i will do ebike now that i know how expensive its going to be... not to mention if i use it a lot i will need to replace battery often. hmm. maybe i will just stick with a cheap regular bike. i just wanted to extend my range a bit for more sightseeing... but eh.


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## Jetster (Jun 6, 2021)

1freedude said:


> [
> 
> @Jetster have you been down Hwy 22 since Beachie fire?  I left Oregon right before that shitstorm blew up.  How did SFSP fare in all of that?



Silver Falls was untouched by the fire, barely. It got Shellburg Falls though, which is just south of Silver Falls. It just didn't jump the dirt road between the parks.
Shellburg falls will not reopen. They are logging the area, which is sad because it had some nice features, a campground and some of the best downhills in the area.
Detroit Lake was a complete loss too. Really sad, the whole town is gone

E bikes will come down in price. I've been watching the market for years now, and only now are we seeing decent bike with decent range. They start at about $2500 and go up from their.
The cheaper ones are old technology and cheap components. The $2000 price tag is not bad considering I paid $1800 for my last bike 10 years ago


The Fire-line between Shellburg Falls and Silver Falls







I took this photo of my bike on a Shellburg falls trail a few years ago before the fire


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## Operandi (Jun 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> i did, i'll consider it. not even sure i will do ebike now that i know how expensive its going to be... not to mention if i use it a lot i will need to replace battery often. hmm. maybe i will just stick with a cheap regular bike. i just wanted to extend my range a bit for more sightseeing... but eh.


The Charge is the same price and is real bike unlike whatever that Sondors is.  The battery is modern Samsung li-ion; its going to go for hundreds of charge cycles before the battery even starts to loose any capacity.

That said if you have decent fitness and don't have any health issues you probably don't need an ebike.  Just be aware a good bike starts at around $800 (or more now probably with the pandemic) but anything cheaper is going to be full of cheap junk components that won't last costing you more in the long run and just be a pain to use.  You should probably go to your local bike shop and talk to some people there.  If you have the option of a independent shop do that as they tend to be less pushy about just selling you something.


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## X71200 (Jun 6, 2021)

E-Bikes don't necessarily have to cost as much as a car. Specialized is a top end brand, you certainly don't need no $13k bike. Take a look at Scott's offerings, E-Spark, E-Genius and the rest. Those are all dual suspension and would fit for your task. They generally retail around $2.5k.


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## Shrek (Jun 6, 2021)

I'd tend to stick with hub based motors to avoid putting strain on the chain.


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## Operandi (Jun 6, 2021)

X71200 said:


> E-Bikes don't necessarily have to cost as much as a car. Specialized is a top end brand, you certainly don't need no $13k bike. Take a look at Scott's offerings, E-Spark, E-Genius and the rest. Those are all dual suspension and would fit for your task. They generally retail around $2.5k.


Based on the OPs posts thus far and the type of riding I imagine they are going for a Spark E Genius or any other kind of trail full sus bike is going to be insane overkill. And those types of high-end frame based motor full suuspension bikes are going to be more like $4,000 starting price.


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## X71200 (Jun 6, 2021)

Operandi said:


> Based on the OPs posts thus far and the type of riding I imagine they are going for a Spark E Genius or any other kind of trail full sus bike is going to be insane overkill and they are going to be more like $4,000 starting price.



They might have increased in price with COVID, second hand might be an option though. I'm not disagreeing with a regular bike idea.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 6, 2021)

Jetster said:


> Silver Falls was untouched by the fire, barely. It got Shellburg Falls though, which is just south of Silver Falls. It just didn't jump the dirt road between the parks.
> Shellburg falls will not reopen. They are logging the area, which is sad because it had some nice features, a campground and some of the best downhills in the area.
> Detroit Lake was a complete loss too. Really sad, the whole town is gone
> 
> ...



thats really sad that lush forest is now ash... thanks for sharing the picture... I had no idea such lush forests were burnt... I figured they were all just dry forests



X71200 said:


> They might have increased in price with COVID, second hand might be an option though. I'm not disagreeing with a regular bike idea.



right now I have a autoshift landrider bike, it was 500 bucks many years ago but my grandpa got it for me. you don't shift gears manually just pedal faster and it changes gear automatically. i really like it and its held up over the years. it needs some new tires now, i might just buy some nice new tires for it and forget about replacing it with an ebike altogether.


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## Operandi (Jun 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> right now I have a autoshift landrider bike, it was 500 bucks many years ago but my grandpa got it for me. you don't shift gears manually just pedal faster and it changes gear automatically. i really like it and its held up over the years. it needs some new tires now, i might just buy some nice new tires for it and forget about replacing it with an ebike altogether.


Not trying to sound like elitist snob here but that is basic department store junk.  If you are serious about putting on miles or taking it up as sport it would be money well spent to get something new/newer.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 6, 2021)

Operandi said:


> Not trying to sound like elitist snob here but that is basic department store junk.  If you are serious about putting on miles or taking it up as sport it would be money well spent to get something new/newer.



you are coming off a bit that way not going to lie. this bike has served me well for years now.  /shrug  and I have really come to like the automatic gear thing it has, very unique from what I have seen


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## Operandi (Jun 6, 2021)

X71200 said:


> They might have increased in price with COVID, second hand might be an option though. I'm not disagreeing with a regular bike idea.


Not that look at them often but I think they've always been around that.  Good full sus trail bikes are typically right around or just a bit below the $2,000 mark anyway.


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## X71200 (Jun 6, 2021)

Operandi said:


> Not that look at them often but I think they've always been around that.  Good full sus trail bikes are typically right around or just a bit below the $2,000 mark anyway.



Not really, I was going to buy one for about 2.5k back some 5-10 years ago, but the bike store said it was going to come overseas and we would have to wait on top of the already high cost so me and dad ditched the idea and got a Trek EX. Some models are cheaper than others, but I realize that COVID inflated bike prices quite a bit.


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## Operandi (Jun 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> you are coming off a bit that way not going to lie. this bike has served me well for years now.  /shrug  and I have really come to like the automatic gear thing it has, very unique from what I have seen


That company went out of business from what I can gather, and no other bike company has made anything like that, that should tell you something.  Its a bike and your riding it so thats what counts but its not a very good one, and you'd enjoy the experience more on a better bike is my point, don't take personally...


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## Space Lynx (Jun 6, 2021)

Operandi said:


> That company went out of business from what I can gather, and no other bike company has made anything like that, that should tell you something.  Its a bike and your riding it so thats what counts but its not a very good one, and you'd enjoy the experience more on a better bike is my point, don't take personally...



fair enough but it works great on my end still.


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## Operandi (Jun 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> fair enough but it works great on my end still.


When I was kid we had Packard Bell PC, I thought it was awesome.  It wasn't, it was garbage, same deal here.

If what you have still works and you are happy with and it just needs tires thats totally worth doing for it but from I can gather from it its "department store" level and those types of bikes are just not meant to pile on miles and are heavy, unresponsive, and just not fun to be on.  If you have a good bike stop around you they'll give you an honest assessment of it, if they start getting pushy and try to sell you something right away its probably not a good shop.


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## DR4G00N (Jun 6, 2021)

A cheap bike that's well adjusted is totally fine for riding trails, I just wouldn't do any big jumps on it. 
I have an old Nishiki Expedition that I got for free, it was pretty thrashed but I just cleaned it and gave it a once over and it does fine.


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## Operandi (Jun 6, 2021)

DR4G00N said:


> A cheap bike that's well adjusted is totally fine for riding trails, I just wouldn't do any big jumps on it.
> I have an old Nishiki Expedition that I got for free, it was pretty thrashed but I just cleaned it and gave it a once over and it does fine.


Old vintage you got for cheap today and new cheap are different things.


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## 1freedude (Jun 6, 2021)

I knew the Autobike mention was gonna cause grief.

Keep riding, that's what is important.  Do you bring the bike to a shop for tune ups and maintanance?  If not, do it.  Like Operandi said, try to find a small indy (independant) shop that does more mechanic work than sales.  I personally worked in shops with just the owner and me.  We worked on anything, and I mean anything.  A good relationship with your LBS (local bike shop) mechanic will pay off with miles of pleasurable riding.
Regarding electrification....dont put extra batteries in a basket on your handlebars.  That wont work.  Get the biggest battery you can afford. Use pedals as your backup, not another battery.

I'm mixed as to buying a shop brand (Trek, Specialized, Giant, Jamis) vs a web brand.  I just checked out the Sondor brand.  I see nothing wrong at all with the brand, or the bikes.  The XS has shop quality parts, and some trick stuff, like integrated headset.  The biggest negative I see is the waiting.

My last word recommendation:  get a used shop brand bike and slap a mid-drive kit from Luna Cycles. Make friends with your mechanic. Beer helps.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 6, 2021)

Operandi said:


> When I was kid we had Packard Bell PC, I thought it was awesome.  It wasn't, it was garbage, same deal here.
> 
> If what you have still works and you are happy with and it just needs tires thats totally worth doing for it but from I can gather from it its "department store" level and those types of bikes are just not meant to pile on miles and are heavy, unresponsive, and just not fun to be on.  If you have a good bike stop around you they'll give you an honest assessment of it, if they start getting pushy and try to sell you something right away its probably not a good shop.



the auto gear landrider is fun to ride. the autoshift feature is very unique in bikes and gives it a lot of fun imo. i can control it fairly easily just with how quickly i pedal. it took a few weeks learning curve, but i have that bike mastered now, i can get going fast on it too... super fast on proper roads... not sure what my actual speed is but i know i have matched 30-35 mph cars before.


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## Operandi (Jun 7, 2021)

1freedude said:


> I'm mixed as to buying a shop brand (Trek, Specialized, Giant, Jamis) vs a web brand.  I just checked out the Sondor brand.  I see nothing wrong at all with the brand, or the bikes.  The XS has shop quality parts, and some trick stuff, like integrated headset.  The biggest negative I see is the waiting.


Very little on that Sondor is quality parts.  The only thing I recognize is the entry level 7 speed Shimano drive train ($20-$30 parts on Amazon) and Tektro brakes (way too weak for a bike this big and heavy) and thats only by looking in pics, its not listed in the specs so honestly who knows what you'll get if you actually buy it.  Pretty much everything else on it is generic including the air fork with its spindly stanchions and stamped (I'm guessing steel?) arch.  The last thing you want is no name flexy fork on 75lb fat bike (75lb is insane btw).  Assuming it performs at all its going to be bad while it lasts which won't be long because its under way too much stress from that heavy of a bike and when it does fail or needs serviceing good luck getting it serviced assuming it has any serviceable parts to begin with.  Sorry, this Sondor stuff is a scam.

Integrated headsets are trick stuff? They are pretty much everywhere now, pretty standard stuff.



> the auto gear landrider is fun to ride. the autoshift feature is very unique in bikes and gives it a lot of fun imo. i can control it fairly easily just with how quickly i pedal. it took a few weeks learning curve, but i have that bike mastered now, i can get going fast on it too... super fast on proper roads... not sure what my actual speed is but i know i have matched 30-35 mph cars before.


Since I've never heard of this bike before today, out of curiosity I watched a Youtube video on a guy restoring one from a free road side find.   It dosn't look like a dangerously bad bike, about what you'd expect on a $200 sporting goods store cruiser which basically makes it overpriced for what it is.

The auto shifting mechanism is actually pretty impressive for _how _it works but the _why _is another matter.  Best case scenario is solution looking for a problem, shifting gears is easy and reliable, this is just proprietary mechanical complication.   At worst it gets in the way as you often want to control your pedaling cadence based on the type of effort you are putting in, though with a cruiser bike like this I guess thats less of an issue.  

The guy in the video got it shifting really well which is pretty impressive but that rear derailleur has all kinds of proprietary mechanical weirdness going on so when something goes wrong with it you are pretty much done.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 7, 2021)

Operandi said:


> The auto shifting mechanism is actually pretty impressive for _how _it works but the _why _is another matter.  Best case scenario is solution looking for a problem, shifting gears is easy and reliable, this is just proprietary mechanical complication.   At worst it gets in the way as you often want to control your pedaling cadence based on the type of effort you are putting in, though with a cruiser bike like this I guess thats less of an issue.
> 
> The guy in the video got it shifting really well which is pretty impressive but that rear derailleur has all kinds of proprietary mechanical weirdness going on so when something goes wrong with it you are pretty much done.



my grandpa gave me this landrider auto shift. so it didn't cost me anything. and its held up for a few years so far without issue.  im leaning towards getting new tires for it and calling it a day... ebikes are really overpriced imo... can buy a used car for the cost of a lot of these. just crazy.


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## ShiBDiB (Jun 7, 2021)

Operandi said:


> Not trying to sound like elitist snob here but that is basic department store junk.  If you are serious about putting on miles or taking it up as sport it would be money well spent to get something new/newer.



Definitely are. Biking has a tendency to have the "you need to go to a bike store and get a REAL bike or you're not really a biker" stigma that you're not helping with at all. A department store Schwinn will be fine for 98% of people. It's a hobby with a low entry price point that is all most people need, yes you can spend enough for a used car and get a high end bike but unless you're putting hundreds of miles on it a month you're just wasting money (and/or drinking the "non pushy but totally commission based bike store" cool-aid).


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## Jetster (Jun 7, 2021)

ShiBDiB said:


> Definitely are. Biking has a tendency to have the "you need to go to a bike store and get a REAL bike or you're not really a biker" stigma that you're not helping with at all. A department store Schwinn will be fine for 98% of people. It's a hobby with a low entry price point that is all most people need, yes you can spend enough for a used car and get a high end bike but unless you're putting hundreds of miles on it a month you're just wasting money (and/or drinking the "non pushy but totally commission based bike store" cool-aid).


Have you seen the prices of schwinns?
I disagree, department store bikes made out of pot steal and plastic are heavy and will not last, they also have no support for proper set up. Which is why they are a ridden a few times and then parked. For just s a few hundred more you can get a bike with a professional set up. Most all bike shops want you to enjoy riding so you return. Entry level bikes from Giant, Santa Cruz, Trek and a bunch of other brands run under $600 and come with one or two years of support. Which means you take it to them for tune ups, flats and other problems and they fix it for free. So ask when shopping. October is the time of year to buy a new bike. They cut prices on bikes for the new years bikes have room. You can also get them to throw in a free pump or a few tubes

If you want cheaper than buy used. Just learn what good and whats crap

Trivia, did you know Giant makes most of the frames for other company's and have a life time warrenty on there frames? They are the worlds largest manufacture of bikes and have the best deals


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 7, 2021)

Get a nice Specialized Frame and build your own. I have looked into this myself and you can easily make a very nice ebike for way, way under what they sell them for. Plus you can build it to go way faster than they are allowed to build. The reason I went with Specialized is it already had all the holes and cable routing built into the very strong and light frame. Amazon sells some premade hub kits that are pretty nice and cost about 1200 for a good setup.


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## Liquid Cool (Aug 25, 2021)

I saw this thread a little late, but I'm still going to comment...

I've been riding bikes for almost 50 years.  I even raced bikes ALL the way back in the 1970's...BMX. Redline! I also spend time bringing vintage bikes back to life as a hobby.  Here is a picture of my current project...it's been going real slow, but I'm starting to make progress.  At the end of the day...the frame is like brand new with no rust, so she's a beauty.  It's a 1947 Hawthorne.  All original.




In some fashion...my opinion would mirror Jetster's....relatively sound advice he's given from my perspective.  I can no longer ride mountain bikes(with my neck I have to sit straight up), but I'm a fan of Both Giant and Trek in your price range.  Although, maybe it's where I live, but a solid entry level from either is cheaper than $600.  $400 to $500 would be more accurate in my area.  I also believe a good relationship with a local bike shop is a must.  I can do all of my own work...but I always take care of my local bike guys.

Now...with electrical bikes and your budget.  The only bike I could come up with that I would personally purchase for myself in this range is probably the Lectric XP 2.0, not the original, but the just released 2.0.  They really listened to their riders and have fixed quite a bit of the shortcomings associated with their first production run.  Because of the price, it has a very large(and getting larger by the day) cult following.


I've ridden both the Lectric XP and the Sondor.  While I(and this is subjective) found the Sondor to be a little more aesthetically pleasing to the eye...I did not like the width of the frame.  It felt too wide, especially around the crank area.  I actually kept looking down because something felt off.  I do remember this was the cheaper of the two Sondor models, but it still appeared well equipped.  The Lectric XP was the original model, but the bike I rode was highly modified, so it's hard to compare.  After 5 miles or so, I wanted one.  Still do...

XP 2.0 Black

I have owned many many bicycles in my life.  Very expensive bikes and very cheap bikes...but now the only bikes I can ride are beach cruiser types because as mentioned I have to sit straight up.  So, I actually prefer those cheap Wal-Mart bikes that nobody likes.  My current one is going on 7 or 8 years and still rides like new.  Bought it for $45 used from a guy who rode it a half dozen times and parked it....like most Americans.  The only saving grace for this heavy bike is...the frame is aluminum, but it still takes the scale into the 40's...high 40's.



Even with that I say unabashedly...It has to be the best money I've ever spent.  I absolutely love this old bike...may not look like it but I've ridden the hell out of it.   I also pamper it a bit too....

I even ride it in the winter...inside of course.

Best,

Liquid Cool


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## basco (Aug 25, 2021)

i bought my girlfiend a used mateX 750  for 1250.-euro and we are happy after changing the front brakes to magura.
she drives 16km every day and 5 days is possible even more with less power and that you can optimize to your liking.

but its no mountain bike but good for little bit of everything.



			https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/any-bike-riders-in-here.247065/post-4554873


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## _ALB_R3D X (Aug 25, 2021)

If you have the time/commitment necessary,build your strength and in a month time you'll believe you never needed an e-bike.
If you go the e-bike route than better be big brands for support and longevity reasons.
Just my 2 cents


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## Space Lynx (Aug 25, 2021)

_ALB_R3D X said:


> If you have the time/commitment necessary,build your strength and in a month time you'll believe you never needed an e-bike.
> If you go the e-bike route than better be big brands for support and longevity reasons.
> Just my 2 cents



for me an ebike is about hills mainly to be honest with you, i am aware i could build up strength for that, but some hills are so steep they will just ruin the fun, would be nice to have pedal assist on those so i can enjoy all the nature. its less about biking for me and more about enjoying as much nature as possible / distance.



Liquid Cool said:


> I saw this thread a little late, but I'm still going to comment...
> 
> I've been riding bikes for almost 50 years.  I even raced bikes ALL the way back in the 1970's...BMX. Redline! I also spend time bringing vintage bikes back to life as a hobby.  Here is a picture of my current project...it's been going real slow, but I'm starting to make progress.  At the end of the day...the frame is like brand new with no rust, so she's a beauty.  It's a 1947 Hawthorne.  All original.
> 
> ...



the xp 2.0 is on sale right now for $999 and I did just get a pay raise at work... very very tempted.


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