# NVIDIA Readying GeForce RTX 2080 Ti SUPER After All?



## btarunr (Nov 20, 2019)

NVIDIA could launch a "GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Super" after all, if a tweet from kopite7kimi, an enthusiast with a fairly high hit-rate with NVIDIA rumors is to be believed. The purported SKU could be faster than the RTX 2080 Ti, and yet be somehow differentiated from the TITAN RTX. For starters, NVIDIA could enable all 4,608 CUDA cores, 576 tensor cores, and 72 RT cores, along with 288 TMUs and 96 ROPs. Compared to the current RTX 2080 Ti, the Super could get faster 16 Gbps GDDR6 memory. 

It's possible that NVIDIA won't change the 352-bit memory bus width or 11 GB memory amount, as those would be the only things stopping the card from cannibalizing the TITAN RTX, which has the chip's full 384-bit memory bus width, and 24 GB of memory. Interestingly, at 16 Gbps with a 352-bit memory bus width, the RTX 2080 Ti Super would have 704 GB/s of memory bandwidth, which is higher than the 672 GB/s of the TITAN RTX, with its 14 Gbps memory clock. These design choices would ensure NVIDIA has a sufficiently faster product than the RTX 2080 Ti, without an increase in BOM, provided it has enough perfectly-functional "TU102" inventory to go around. There's no word on availability, although WCCFTech predicts a CES 2020 unveiling.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## bug (Nov 20, 2019)

Even if they would release such a card, it would only be a minor improvement over the existing one. The TU102 is already almost fully unlocked and faster memory won't yield too much either. But no one can complain if a slightly faster part can be had for the same price.

Still, I feel the only sane thing to do for $1,300 so called "consumer" cards is to go the way of the Dodo.


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## er557 (Nov 20, 2019)

Meh, at this point I'd rather wait for ampere


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## Kissamies (Nov 20, 2019)

Well, they could go back to the way that they had full memory bus, but with half of the memory of Titan (remember Titan vs 780 Ti* or Titan X vs 980 Ti?).

*well, 780 Ti had a full chip when the first Titan had shaders and other units disabled.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

er557 said:


> Meh, at this point I'd rather wait for ampere



yep Nvidia will be forced to respond to navi 2 with Ampere this summer or spring. buying this would be dumb, just another case of Nvidia milking people with too much money, but hey if they are dumb enough to keep buying it more power to nvidia. personally I'd rather be poor and have my brains.


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## Kissamies (Nov 20, 2019)

But well, waiting isn't usually the thing with PC hardware.


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## Berfs1 (Nov 20, 2019)

1200$ USD MSRP will be my guess, and I can firmly believe the 16GBps will be true if this card comes out, because the 2080 Super is the only GPU to have higher than 14GBps (15.5 GBps out of the box), so 16 is likely for the 2080 ti super.


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## Kissamies (Nov 20, 2019)

Berfs1 said:


> 1200$ USD MSRP will be my guess, and I can firmly believe the 16GBps will be true if this card comes out, because the 2080 Super is the only GPU to have higher than 14GBps (15.5 GBps out of the box), so 16 is likely for the 2080 ti super.


1200 eur/usd is something I'd also guess, probably replacing the current one like Titan Xp did with Titan X(P).


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## EarthDog (Nov 20, 2019)

This will be interesting to see where the price and performance land. Im imagining a couple/few percent performance and pricing to come in around $1100...



lynx29 said:


> yep Nvidia will be forced to respond to navi 2 with Ampere this summer or spring. buying this would be dumb, just another case of Nvidia milking people with too much money, but hey if they are dumb enough to keep buying it more power to nvidia. personally I'd rather be poor and have my brains.


Nvidia didn't have to respond to Navi, really... (price adjustments I suppose is a response - but Im thinking arch), what makes you think Navi 2 is going to have them doing so? AMD just wants to compete on performance /$ (wattage be damned so far). 

Just a quick note, the RTX 2060 Super costs around the same as a 5700 XT (their pricing overlaps on newegg) and is only a couple of % slower according to TPU reviews. Perhaps some prefer to use ray tracing and a lot less power (175W vs 225W) at a  very similar price point? I'd call that using their brains and not being poor, you?


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## dj-electric (Nov 20, 2019)

I also think that "NVIDIA will be forced" is a term that didn't really happen since... a long time ago. A slight price re-adjustment to existing products could easily replace the existence of SUPER line-up.

This card launching is not so great news, it implies NVIDIA will be staying some more with Turing and take their sweet time maybe even until Computex with their next gen for consumers (We know servers come first)


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> This will be interesting to see where the price and performance land. Im imagining a couple/few percent performance and pricing to come in around $1100...
> 
> Nvidia didn't have to respond to Navi, really... (price adjustments I suppose is a response - but Im thinking arch), what makes you think Navi 2 is going to have them doing so? AMD just wants to compete on performance /$ (wattage be damned so far).
> 
> Just a quick note, the RTX 2060 Super costs around the same as a 5700 XT (their pricing overlaps on newegg) and is only a couple of % slower according to TPU reviews. Perhaps some prefer to use ray tracing and a lot less power (175W vs 225W) at a  very similar price point? I'd call that using their brains and not being poor, you?



because Lisa Su said Navi 2 is going to be a Nvidia giant killer.  so that for one...


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## The Quim Reaper (Nov 20, 2019)

I for one can't wait to spend $1200+ on a card that will be superseded in little more than 6mths by the 3080Ti


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## Ravenmaster (Nov 20, 2019)

This card will be an absolute waste of time if it doesn’t include a HDMI 2.1 socket


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## EarthDog (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> because Lisa Su said Navi 2 is going to be a Nvidia giant killer.  so that for one...


I treat her words like I do Jenson Juang... with a salt block. But hey, could be... only time will tell... but history isn't on their side.

Doesn't feel as stupid, buying some NV cards, when it is explained with facts though, eh? 



The Quim Reaper said:


> I for one can't wait to spend $1200+ on a card that will be superseded in little more than 6mths by the 3080Ti


If I was you, I would never buy a PC part again as there is always something better several months away.


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## scooze (Nov 20, 2019)

The Quim Reaper said:


> I for one can't wait to spend $1200+ on a card that will be superseded in little more than 6mths by the 3080Ti


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## techguymaxc (Nov 20, 2019)

96 ROPs on a 352-bit bus is impossible. Nvidia still connects 8 ROPs to each 32-bit memory controller, per page 7 of the Turing GPU Architecture whitepaper:



> Tied to each memory controller are eight ROP units and 512 KB of L2 cache. The full TU102 GPU consists of 96 ROP units and 6144 KB of L2 cache.





			https://www.nvidia.com/content/dam/en-zz/Solutions/design-visualization/technologies/turing-architecture/NVIDIA-Turing-Architecture-Whitepaper.pdf


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## bug (Nov 20, 2019)

The Quim Reaper said:


> I for one can't wait to spend $1200+ on a card that will be superseded in little more than 6mths by the 3080Ti


Show me top-end card that wasn't superseded in 6-9 months. If you don't buy top-end, fine (I don't either). But don't fault the product.


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## The Quim Reaper (Nov 20, 2019)

bug said:


> Show me top-end card that wasn't superseded in 6-9 months.



980Ti, 1080Ti & 2080Ti.

All were king of the hill for more than 12mths, 18mths for the 1080Ti.

The point I was making is that buying a 2080Ti, super or not, at this stage in its market lifecycle, is pretty stupid.

Obviously I don't include good 2nd hand prices in that statement.


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## EarthDog (Nov 20, 2019)

The Quim Reaper said:


> The point I was making is that buying a 2080Ti, super or not, at this stage in its market lifecycle, is pretty stupid.


That is a pretty myopic statement if you ask me. There can be plenty of good reasons to make the purchase now... we have no idea if this is even true, nor when next gen is even coming out . Regardless it is multiple months away...and if you wait those multiple months, then multiple more months something else new is coming out... rinse and repeat.


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## 64K (Nov 20, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> Well, they could go back to the way that they had full memory bus, but with half of the memory of Titan (remember Titan vs 780 Ti* or Titan X vs 980 Ti?).
> 
> *well, 780 Ti had a full chip when the first Titan had shaders and other units disabled.



The Titan X had 3072 cores and the 980 Ti had 2816 cores but they did both have the same 384 bit memory bus with the 980 ti having half the VRAM as the Titan X.


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## bug (Nov 20, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> That is a pretty myopic statement if you ask me. There can be plenty of good reasons to make the purchase now... we have no idea if this is even true, nor when next gen is even coming out.


Actually, we have a pretty good idea: between May and August, that's when Nvidia traditionally releases new generations, high-end cards first.
But yes, if you go by the "don't buy X now, something better will be released soon", you should never buy anything.


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## Kissamies (Nov 20, 2019)

64K said:


> The Titan X had 3072 cores and the 980 Ti had 2816 cores but they did both have the same 384 bit memory bus with the 980 ti having half the VRAM as the Titan X.


Yeah, the chip was trimmed down but you got my point about the bus width


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> I treat her words like I do Jenson Juang... with a salt block. But hey, could be... only time will tell... but history isn't on their side.
> 
> Doesn't feel as stupid, buying some NV cards, when it is explained with facts though, eh?
> 
> If I was you, I would never buy a PC part again as there is always something better several months away.



I mean a rx 5700 XT is within striking distance of the 1080 ti and isn't even full NAVI redesign and came in $300 cheaper MSRP... it's very possible, actually it is probable.  Yeah they won't be 3080 ti ampere, I am certain of that, but maybe they will match 3080 at a cheaper price. which is a big win for the industry on pricing. cause Nvidia was getting out of hand.


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## EarthDog (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I mean a rx 5700 XT is within striking distance of the 1080 ti and isn't even full NAVI redesign and came in $300 cheaper MSRP... it's very possible, actually it is probable.  Yeah they won't be 3080 ti ampere, I am certain of that, but maybe they will match 3080 at a cheaper price. which is a big win for the industry on pricing. cause Nvidia was getting out of hand.


WHat does last gen have to do with it? Yes, it is 7-9% slower (5700xt) than a last gen flagship that is rated to use the same power. If new Navi comes out before Ampre, that would mean it took AMD two generations to reach these performance levels. Nvidia's reply SHOULD beat it. But we are digging down deep in the speculation hole here. 

My point is simply that waiting SEVERAL months for something new typically isn't worth it. And it takes brains to figure out that some Nvidia cards are priced competitively in the market, especially when looking at the big picture.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> WHat does last gen have to do with it? Yes, it is 7-9% slower (5700xt) than a last gen flagship that is rated to use the same power. If new Navi comes out before Ampre, that would mean it took AMD two generations to reach these performance levels. Nvidia's reply SHOULD beat it. But we are digging down deep in the speculation hole here.
> 
> My point is simply that waiting SEVERAL months for something new typically isn't worth it. And it takes brains to figure out that some Nvidia cards are priced competitively in the market, especially when looking at the big picture.



because it isn't full redesign... this is only half new architecture... Navi 2 is a full new design... there will be performance gains.


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## EarthDog (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> because it isn't full redesign... this is only half new architecture... Navi 2 is a full new design... there will be performance gains.


There will. Surely! I really hope they can compete with a part performance wise that has been out for 1.5 years with their second crack at it. But, I'm not holding my breath.

Again, point isn't this so much as it is to hear that 'wait for the next part' idea when things are several months away still. That and perhaps now that you are armed with the knowledge Nvidia can compete in price and performance in some SKUs, maybe the words will be tempered a bit (calling those buying Nv cards "dumb") and less toxic.


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## notb (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> yep Nvidia will be forced to respond to navi 2 with Ampere this summer or spring. buying this would be dumb, just another case of Nvidia milking people with too much money, but hey if they are dumb enough to keep buying it more power to nvidia. personally I'd rather be poor and have my brains.


Milking?
They're providing the fastest gaming GPU at particular moment.

Why is that "milking" and what does it have to do with Ampere which is a distant future?


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## xkm1948 (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> because it isn't full redesign... this is only half new architecture... Navi 2 is a full new design... there will be performance gains.



oh gawd. How do you know? Secret nvidia GPU engineer?


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## fynxer (Nov 20, 2019)

Ravenmaster said:


> This card will be an absolute waste of time if it doesn’t include a HDMI 2.1 socket











						Game Ready Driver 441.08 Out Now, Adds ReShade Filters, HDMI 2.1 VRR, Image Sharpening, G-SYNC with Ultra Low-Latency Rendering
					

NVIDIA has released a new Game Ready driver (441.08). It supports the new GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER GPU and adds lots of software improvements.




					wccftech.com


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## skizzo (Nov 20, 2019)

Ravenmaster said:


> This card will be an absolute waste of time if it doesn’t include a HDMI 2.1 socket



exactly what I am waiting for. i am currently running RX 5700 XT and will not upgrade until a next gen GPU with HDMI 2.1 ports on it for the ability to do 4K 120Hz



fynxer said:


> Game Ready Driver 441.08 Out Now, Adds ReShade Filters, HDMI 2.1 VRR, Image Sharpening, G-SYNC with Ultra Low-Latency Rendering
> 
> 
> NVIDIA has released a new Game Ready driver (441.08). It supports the new GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER GPU and adds lots of software improvements.
> ...





HDMI 2.1 FEATURES is not the same as having the bandwidth that 4K 120Hz+ needs. many GPUs and TVs have HDMI 2.1 features, doesn't mean it can do the high resolution with high refresh rate over HDMI 2.0 connections. I can't believe how many people wrongly connect these things


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## bug (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> because it isn't full redesign... this is only half new architecture... Navi 2 is a full new design... there will be performance gains.


If "a full new design" == "tweaked RDNA", then yes.
I mean, sure Zen2 is significantly better than Zen, so there's no reason RDNA2 won't be significantly better than RDNA. But neither is "a full new design", let's choose our words more carefully, shall we?


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

bug said:


> If "a full new design" == "tweaked RDNA", then yes.
> I mean, sure Zen2 is significantly better than Zen, so there's no reason RDNA2 won't be significantly better than RDNA. But neither is "a full new design", let's choose our words more carefully, shall we?



I was only quoting what I remember reading from Lisa Su.  Pretty sure she said full RDNA2 is a different beast entirely than Navi 1.  but sure thing


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## EarthDog (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I was only quoting what I remember reading from Lisa Su.  Pretty sure she said full RDNA2 is a different beast entirely than Navi 1.  but sure thing


We can be wrong... but, you should provide links to support your assertion(s) when questioned. It's how forums work.


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## Flanker (Nov 20, 2019)

dj-electric said:


> I also think that "NVIDIA will be forced" is a term that didn't really happen since... a long time ago.



If I remember correctly, it was the release of HD4850 and HD4870 wasn't it? It brutalized GTX260 and GTX280. That was when I was about to finish high school lol


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## Ravenmaster (Nov 20, 2019)

Exactly. Although it’s nice that my LG TV does G-sync perfectly, at the same time it’s still capped to 4K 60hz or 1440


skizzo said:


> exactly what I am waiting for. i am currently running RX 5700 XT and will not upgrade until a next gen GPU with HDMI 2.1 ports on it for the ability to do 4K 120Hz
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Exactly. The G-sync compatibility for my LG TV is really cool and works impeccably well but at the same time, I’m stuck between having to choose between 4K 60hz or 1440p 120hz because the HDMI 2.0 socket on the GPU is restricting the necessary bandwidth for 4K 120hz. My tv is ready for 4K 120hz + HDR + g-sync but my 2080Ti is holding holding it back.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> We can be wrong... but, you should provide links to support your assertion(s) when questioned. It's how forums work.



it was on a powerpoint slide during her presentation from what I remember, but I am not going through that whole video again to find it. I could care less if you agree with me or not, that is also how forums work. later gators


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## EarthDog (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> it was on a powerpoint slide during her presentation from what I remember, but I am not going through that whole video again to find it. I could care less if you agree with me or not, that is also how forums work. later gators


What, your post cast aside because you can't support it? Indeed, that is how it will work.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> What, your post cast aside because you can't support it? Indeed, that is how it will work.



for you and some others, not for everyone. /shrug

also i don't really care... which is also how forums work.


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## tomc100 (Nov 20, 2019)

If they can reduce the energy consumption for multi-monitor setups then I'd get it since I rarely play games but use my computer mostly for multi-tasking with a tv and monitor.  TV for youtube and monitor for surfing or email.


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## bug (Nov 20, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> We can be wrong... but, you should provide links to support your assertion(s) when questioned. It's how forums work.


You don't need a link for that.
No CEO ever took the stage to tell us: our upcoming product will be a a tweaked current product on a slightly better production node. Their presentations always include "radically new design", "unprecedented performance", "designed for the next gen" and other terms that will win you a bullshit bingo in no time. That makes me pretty sure Ms Su has said the same thing about RDNA2. People taking said statements at face value, that's another story.


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## EarthDog (Nov 20, 2019)

bug said:


> You don't need a link for that.
> No CEO ever took the stage to tell us: our upcoming product will be a a tweaked current product on a slightly better production node. Their presentations always include "radically new design", "unprecedented performance", "designed for the next gen" and other terms that will win you a bullshit bingo in no time. That makes me pretty sure Ms Su has said the same thing about RDNA2. People taking said statements at face value, that's another story.


That's a good point... in particular your last sentence (which was next to address when a link was provided).

Hook, line, and sinker, some.


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## kings (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> because Lisa Su said Navi 2 is going to be a Nvidia giant killer.  so that for one...



Yeah, like they said Fury X was going to be the overclockers dream. Or the "Poor Volta" thing...

AMD always has something fantastic up its sleeve, the problem is that the sleeve is so long that we wait, we wait, we wait...


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## xkm1948 (Nov 20, 2019)

kings said:


> Yeah, like they said Fury X was going to be the overclockers dream. Or the "Poor Volta" thing...
> 
> AMD always has something fantastic up its sleeve, the problem is that the sleeve is so long that we wait, we wait, we wait...



They have great presentation slides I will give you that.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

kings said:


> Yeah, like they said Fury X was going to be the overclockers dream. Or the "Poor Volta" thing...
> 
> AMD always has something fantastic up its sleeve, the problem is that the sleeve is so long that we wait, we wait, we wait...




really enjoying my Ryzen 3600 and 3800 1:1 inifnity fabric ram at the moment. hard to believe I am getting better scores than even a 9700k and the ram and CPU and mobo all cost me less than a single 9700k to boot. turns out ryzen loves ram if you max out inifnity fabric, it screams.

but your right, we wait and wait and wait. I'm glad I waited.


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## HD64G (Nov 20, 2019)

Good news as prices will go down. Since all nVidia Super GPUs released days before an equivalent part from AMD released, I suppose that the green team knows something about a bigger than Navi 10 chip able to compete with 2080Ti.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

HD64G said:


> Good news as prices will go down. Since all nVidia Super GPUs released days before an equivalent part from AMD released, I suppose that the green team knows something about a bigger than Navi 10 chip able to compete with 2080Ti.



aye, it's great there is competition again. I still can't believe how cheaply I built my new rig... and how powerful it is in regards to how much I paid. quite amazing


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## RH92 (Nov 20, 2019)

xkm1948 said:


> oh gawd. How do you know? Secret nvidia GPU engineer?



No no secret engineer he has the special power called ''  blind fanboy sense  ''


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

RH92 said:


> No no secret engineer he has the special power called ''  blind fanboy sense  ''



Funny, I owned Intel Nvidia for last 6 years... but sure, fanboy sure...


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## P4-630 (Nov 20, 2019)

@oxrufiioxo you need one....


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## Th3pwn3r (Nov 20, 2019)

notb said:


> Milking?
> They're providing the fastest gaming GPU at particular moment.
> 
> Why is that "milking" and what does it have to do with Ampere which is a distant future?



In a way they are and in a way they're not. Nvidia doesn't have to create a 2080ti super since they're the top dog by far but they're still going to give people a slight bump in performance. It's a filler until next gen basically.


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## notb (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Funny, I owned Intel Nvidia for last 6 years... but sure, fanboy sure...


You can be a fanboy and remain a rational buyer. So you bought the better GPU. That's it.
Most AMD fanboys used Intel CPUs for better part of the last decade, but activated once Zen came out.
Being a fan of AMD (or just anti Intel) is one thing, but having a usable PC is important as well. 

Anyway, since you've already admitted that you don't really care what we think about your posts, there's likely no reason for you to tell the truth in them. You don't care. You might as well be making everything up. 


Th3pwn3r said:


> In a way they are and in a way they're not. Nvidia doesn't have to create a 2080ti super since they're the top dog by far but they're still going to give people a slight bump in performance. It's a filler until next gen basically.


So, they could basically go on vacation and keep selling 2080Ti until AMD announces something that beats it.
Instead they launch a new card that offers even more performance.

How exactly is that bad in any way? Shouldn't we praise this?


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

notb said:


> You can be a fanboy and remain a rational buyer. So you bought the better GPU. That's it.
> Most AMD fanboys used Intel CPUs for better part of the last decade, but activated once Zen came out.
> Being a fan of AMD (or just anti Intel) is one thing, but having a usable PC is important as well.
> 
> ...




alternated intel and amd since the original pentium came out in the mid 90's.  not a big deal to me, just whoever offers best cost for performance.

neat, *everything* I type is made up. cool line of logic you have there. highly intelligent.


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## EarthDog (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> alternated intel and amd since the original pentium came out in the mid 90's.  not a big deal to me, just whoever offers best cost for performance.
> 
> neat, *everything* I type is made up. cool line of logic you have there. highly intelligent.


You missed his point...users can be a fanboy of a product and still make rational buying decisions. However, this doesn't mean their thoughts on something can't be plain wrong and rooted in fanboyism and false hope or just plain old incorrect. 



Th3pwn3r said:


> In a way they are and in a way they're not. Nvidia doesn't have to create a 2080ti super since they're the top dog by far but they're still going to give people a slight bump in performance. It's a filler until next gen basically.


So what? What about the RX 5xx series.. and GCN? Those are refreshes (if not straight rebrand on some) with higher clocks. You can have them sit on their laurels like Intel did and many complained about... or have something like this between full launches. I'd also venture a guess that it will be priced no more than the initial 2080 Ti SEP and for a bit more performance.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> You missed his point...users can be a fanboy of a product and still make rational buying decisions. However, this doesn't mean their thoughts on something can't be plain wrong and rooted in fanboyism and false hope or just plain old incorrect.



No, I understood his point. I was commenting on his last sentence, specifically the sentence with the word "everything", which is why I highlighted it in bold and italicized it... I am sorry you missed my point...


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## xkm1948 (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Funny, I owned Intel Nvidia for last 6 years... but sure, fanboy sure...



I thought you got a Navi already? How about a Radeon 7? They are recently on sale for just $699 a pop.


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## EarthDog (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> No, I understood his point. I was commenting on his last sentence, specifically the sentence with the word "everything", which is why I highlighted it in bold and italicized it... I am sorry you missed my point...


Those are two separate points.... one has to do with hardware choices and being a fanboy (or not), the other has to do with your posts and making them up from scratch because you don't care what people think so you COULD be making shit up (I believe you do not do this, but in this case misconstrue PR for reality - only time will tell). 

Anyway, this is pretty ridiculous... I'm done trying to clarify the written word for people. .. JFC.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Those are two separate points.... one has to do with hardware choices and being a fanboy (or not), the other has to do with your posts and making them up from scratch because you don't care.
> 
> Anyway, this is pretty ridiculous... I'm done trying to clarify the written word for people. .. JFC.



Correct, I was responding to his second point... hence why I focused on that one word... not complicated really. Next time I will raise the font size if that will help.


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## lewis007 (Nov 20, 2019)

Another completely unaffordable card for......? YouTubers?


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## dicktracy (Nov 20, 2019)

Needs HDMI 2.1 for next year's 48 inch OLED!


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## Kissamies (Nov 20, 2019)

Flanker said:


> If I remember correctly, it was the release of HD4850 and HD4870 wasn't it? It brutalized GTX260 and GTX280. That was when I was about to finish high school lol


GTX 200 series were somewhat faster, but those Radeons were very aggressively priced, so their price/performance ratio were much better. But I'd say that HD 4890 traded blows with GTX 285 (die-shrinked and faster clocked update of 280). Never owned a 200 series card, but I had a 4850 and 4890 back in the day, and now I have 2x 4890 just for the nostalgia. Gonna try those in Crossfire in my Ryzen rig some day with a clean W7 

Also, HD 5800/6900 weren't very much slower than Nvidia's GTX 400/500 counterparts, again the aggressive pricing made AMD the winner IMO in those times too. I liked when they released their new cards in about similar times, it was interesting to wait which one had the faster cards. Now we see that Nvidia has the lead (in both performance and releasing a hella fast card), and AMD just can't compete in the enthusiast range like in the old days.


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## moproblems99 (Nov 20, 2019)

xkm1948 said:


> They have great presentation slides I will give you that.




They do work though.  It got people to buy them. I wonder if anyone in this forum made that mistake...


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## Vayra86 (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I was only quoting what I remember reading from Lisa Su.  Pretty sure she said full RDNA2 is a different beast entirely than Navi 1.  but sure thing



Yes, and everything they iterated on GCN prior to that was just as revolutionary and life altering as well..

Its called marketing and you're still looking at GCN with another round of tweaks.



lewis007 said:


> Another completely unaffordable card for......? YouTubers?



Headlines. But if they do this, it does kinda makes you wonder how far Ampere is out still. It could be another 780ti... but then the 780 was also cost effective and 2080ti is far from it. Its going to take major price drops to make one or both products even remotely interesting, this late in a gen.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> Yes, and everything they iterated on GCN prior to that was just as revolutionary and life altering as well..
> 
> Its called marketing and you're still looking at GCN with another round of tweaks.



if it beats a 2070 super and maybe even matches a 2080 super and costs $300 under MSRP then those cards, I'm fine with that.  and 5700 XT has already proven it can do it to the 1080 ti.  call it whatever you want, it's great time to be a PC gamer.


----------



## Vayra86 (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> if it beats a 2070 super and maybe even matches a 2080 super and costs $300 under MSRP then those cards, I'm fine with that.  and 5700 XT has already proven it can do it to the 1080 ti.  call it whatever you want, it's great time to be a PC gamer.



Whatever, its still a shitty gen to buy any card. Its a bit like buying Intel 10th gen. You just know it will be eclipsed by everything on 7nm EUV. 1080ti performance is three year old news now.

The upper midrange is way too crowded, and the top end is 100% priced out of the market, while the new top end is too late to matter what with next gen's RT and all. And the value of ALL these cards is going to drop unusually sharply with next gen, because we've slowed down on the current gen.


----------



## moproblems99 (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> if it beats a 2070 super and maybe even matches a 2080 super and costs $300 under MSRP then those cards, I'm fine with that.  and 5700 XT has already proven it can do it to the 1080 ti.  call it whatever you want, it's great time to be a PC gamer.



If the next gen is only a 15% improvement then that is a total failure and AMD can go hide in shame.

They need to get +30% to even remotely stay competitive.  With NV dropping to 7mm, they should be able to get a healthy boost.  They already have the power advantage so likely most of the efficiency/clock improvement s are going to perf/clocks.


----------



## HisDivineOrder (Nov 20, 2019)

I don't think Ampere is coming when we thought if they're releasing this card this late.  This looks like a, "Oh no, Ampere's coming later than expected, let's announce a new high end card and outshine Big Navi before it's announcement."

I imagine Big Navi's coming in June after being announced in January.  Probably in tandem with the launch of Zen3-based CPU's.  nVidia announces/limited releases a SUPER version of 2080 Ti in January.  Then they announce Ampere in March with a datacenter/not-gaming product to get people used to the idea.  Then a gaming version is announced in  June/July preceded by steady May leaks to rain on Big Navi's launch.  I imagine those with a limited release in Sept/Oct with Founder's Editions.


----------



## ZoneDymo (Nov 20, 2019)

but why . gif


----------



## Juankato1987 (Nov 20, 2019)

So, if that its true, there were no reason to buy a  ?TX  080 Ti a couple months after release, because there will be another in a few months.
Truth is, that if you have the money do it, never mind anything else.



The Quim Reaper said:


> 980Ti, 1080Ti & 2080Ti.
> 
> All were king of the hill for more than 12mths, 18mths for the 1080Ti.
> 
> ...


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> Whatever, its still a shitty gen to buy any card. Its a bit like buying Intel 10th gen. You just know it will be eclipsed by everything on 7nm EUV. 1080ti performance is three year old news now.
> 
> The upper midrange is way too crowded, and the top end is 100% priced out of the market, while the new top end is too late to matter what with next gen's RT and all. And the value of ALL these cards is going to drop unusually sharply with next gen, because we've slowed down on the current gen.



It's a good thing we have competition again then eh?


----------



## notb (Nov 20, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> alternated intel and amd since the original pentium came out in the mid 90's.  not a big deal to me, just whoever offers best cost for performance.


Exactly what I said. You buy the better product. It's perfectly fine.


> neat, *everything* I type is made up. cool line of logic you have there. highly intelligent.


I never said that.
But you said that you don't care what we think about your posts. Because "that's how forums work".
So, while some of your posts may be true, I have no reason to assume that. You could be making everything up. Or just some of it. Or having fun. Or whatever.


lewis007 said:


> Another completely unaffordable card for......? YouTubers?


Just slightly more "unaffordable" than regular 2080Ti and Nvidia has no problem selling those.
Top gaming components are getting more and more expensive. That's it.
This means gamers with big budgets can finally buy sensible products that actually give them some gaming potential. Today you can spend $5000 on a consumer PC buying just gaming-oriented parts.
Few years age gamers with this kind of budget were buying HEDT parts and often ended up unhappy (because there was hardly any gain or it turned out 7700K gives more fps).

On the other hand, low-level parts are just as affordable as ever. So we're not losing anything.


----------



## QUANTUMPHYSICS (Nov 20, 2019)

BUT can it run Red Dead Redemption?


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## 27MaD (Nov 20, 2019)

A RTX 2090 with two hearts would be EPIC


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## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2019)

QUANTUMPHYSICS said:


> BUT can it run Red Dead Redemption?



no because it's a badly optimized game. has nothing to do with horsepower.


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## bug (Nov 20, 2019)

27MaD said:


> A RTX 2090 with two hearts would be EPIC


Yeah, its price would be the stuff of LEGENDS


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## moproblems99 (Nov 20, 2019)

notb said:


> This means gamers with big budgets can finally buy sensible products that actually give them some gaming potential. Today you can spend $5000 on a consumer PC buying just gaming-oriented parts.
> Few years age gamers with this kind of budget were buying HEDT parts and often ended up unhappy (because there was hardly any gain or it turned out 7700K gives more fps).



I'm not sure what you getting at here.  Big budget builds could always buy the top of line.  Nothing has changed.  Other than the prices have increased.

Nothing has changed about hedt either as gaming should never have been the focus of an hedt build.  You may get lucky that an hedt build did well in gaming but clocks were/are (when comparing the same arch) king.

I am not fond of the pricing but it is what it is.  Take it or leave it.  I think we'll find that AMD is not going to save anything except their bank account.  They are going to slot in with the new pricing structure NV established.  That was already on display with 5700 series.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 20, 2019)

Such a dumb name, how about rtx 2080 ultra


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## notb (Nov 20, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> I'm not sure what you getting at here.  Big budget builds could always buy the top of line.  Nothing has changed.  Other than the prices have increased.


I mean that $5000 gives you top of the line gaming parts. And it still makes sense (gaming-wise) over cheaper PCs.

Few years ago you just couldn't go that far.
In mid-2015 you got top fps with a 6700K + 980Ti. That's ~$1000 total (today top CPU and GPU are ~$1000 each).
RAM was cheaper. High-end Z170 mobo was $350. It was hard to justify spending over $3000 on a gaming PC (fps-wise).

So gamers who wanted to spend more went for HEDT (that made hardly any difference) or SLI (that seldom worked, but usually just generated problems).

Basically, gaming component makers decided that high-paying client segment is large enough to make these expensive parts sellable.


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## bug (Nov 20, 2019)

notb said:


> I mean that $5000 gives you top of the line gaming parts. And it still makes sense (gaming-wise) over cheaper PCs.
> 
> Few years ago you just couldn't go that far.
> In mid-2015 you got top fps with a 6700K + 980Ti. That's ~$1000. RAM was cheaper. High-end Z170 mobo was $350. It was hard to justify spending over $3000 on a gaming PC (fps-wise).
> ...


You could have gone triple-SLI or quad-Crossfire 
Then again, you still can, if you really, really, really want to.


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## cucker tarlson (Nov 20, 2019)

notb said:


> In mid-2015 you got top fps with a 6700K + 980Ti. That's ~$1000 total (today top CPU and GPU are ~$1000 each).
> RAM was cheaper. High-end Z170 mobo was $350. It was hard to justify spending over $3000 on a gaming PC (fps-wise).



a 750mm2 chip wouldn't have existed if nvidia knew they couldn't sell it.
you can still get a great $1000 cpu+gpu if you go for 2080 super and 3700x/9700kf,if that's not high end I don't know what is
it's just nvidia and amd made parts like 2080Ti and 3950x possible cause they know people would buy a $750 cpu and a $1000 gpu too.


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## QUANTUMPHYSICS (Nov 20, 2019)

I purchased a 2080Ti Black recently and I already had a 2080Ti FTW3. 


Similar to the TITANX and XP, the 2080Ti is pretty much *unchallenged *by anything from AMD and I knew that if I just spent the money it would make me happy since I wouldn't need to upgrade for a while.

I didn't feel like waiting for the 2080 Ti Super and I doubt I would be willing to spend the $1500 they'll probably want for it. 

Thus far I'm very happy with my purchase and have no buyer's remorse. 
The 2080 Super just didn't have enough memory. When you play CoD MW with all settings at their highest and include Ray Tracing, the game tops out at 6GB memory used. I wasn't willing to take a chance with the 2080, 2070 or 2060 because I knew that games released next year would bring them to their knees. 

I will skip the 3080Ti and upgrade to the 4080Ti.


----------



## moproblems99 (Nov 20, 2019)

notb said:


> I mean that $5000 gives you top of the line gaming parts. And it still makes sense (gaming-wise) over cheaper PCs.
> 
> Few years ago you just couldn't go that far.
> In mid-2015 you got top fps with a 6700K + 980Ti. That's ~$1000 total (today top CPU and GPU are ~$1000 each).
> ...



Right, so basically, what you are saying is the top end parts have gotten more expensive.  Manufacturers have figured out that if you put the term gaming on something you can jack the price up and people will buy it.

Again, your post sums it up perfectly.  Manufacturers, namely Intel and Nvidia because AMD was not competitive, have figured out that they could raise prices and people will still buy it.  They conditioned consumers.  Just because things are more expensive doesn't mean it is justified to spend $5000 when realistically those same parts would have cost $3000 to $4000 had the conditioning not occurred and we were just dealing with normal inflation/cost change.


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## gasolina (Nov 20, 2019)

Should be around 5 to 10% per increase i will pass on this there is no point to replace my 2080ti for this, if anything offer 30% more per at stock then i would gladly to pay for it, and it doesn't matter if that from amd or nvidia


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## Camm (Nov 20, 2019)

I'm calling scuttlebutt based on:

A: Close to next generation
B: It would kill Nvidia's product line differentiation atm, which is Base Card then Super then Ti.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 20, 2019)

bug said:


> Even if they would release such a card, it would only be a minor improvement over the existing one. The TU102 is already almost fully unlocked and faster memory won't yield too much either. But no one can complain if a slightly faster part can be had for the same price.


Should be between 7% to 11% faster and as there are more RT cores, RTX performance will be better by a marked degree. I can think of 2 people who will get such a card no questions asked.


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## notb (Nov 20, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> a 750mm2 chip wouldn't have existed if nvidia knew they couldn't sell it.
> you can still get a great $1000 cpu+gpu if you go for 2080 super and 3700x/9700kf,if that's not high end I don't know what is
> it's just nvidia and amd made parts like 2080Ti and 3950x possible cause they know people would buy a $750 cpu and a $1000 gpu too.


The thesis was that 3950X/9900KS and 2080Ti (Super) still give you some visible gain in gaming graphics. They really do.
Back when 980Ti came out no card was sensibly faster (Titan was within measurement error). You could only enrol for the misery of SLI. 


moproblems99 said:


> Again, your post sums it up perfectly.  Manufacturers, namely Intel and Nvidia because AMD was not competitive, have figured out that they could raise prices and people will still buy it.  They conditioned consumers.


Absolutely not what I said.
All 3 companies (seriously, AMD is no different even if you'd like to believe that) *stretched their lineups*, because they've noticed a "rich" segment of clients that can afford more than could have been bought.
980Ti costed $650, which today gets you a 2080 / 2070 Super. That's twice the performance in 4 years => +20% yearly. That's still better than what AMD does with Zen.
2080Ti is a product in a different segment and it's priced accordingly.

The problem here is that people are too focused on naming. You think 2080Ti is a successor of 1080Ti and 980Ti, which makes you unhappy with the pricing.

If 2070 Super was called 2080Ti and actual 2080Ti became 2090, you'd be perfectly fine with the pricing. 


> Just because things are more expensive doesn't mean it is justified to spend $5000 when realistically those same parts would have cost $3000 to $4000 had the conditioning not occurred and we were just dealing with normal inflation/cost change.


The only reason to say that $5000 parts should cost $3000 is that you're able to buy or make equivalents for $3000, which is not the case.
I totally understand you'd wish that top components were cheaper - every consumer does. But that's just a wish. Don't get too attached.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 20, 2019)

I'm hoping these launch for around $999 so that more people can afford them. Had all the AIB models launched at $999 I would have picked one up at launch luckily I got a 2080 ti Strix OC on a flash sale for $1160 shipped 6 months ago.... Also the vanilla 2080 ti may drop into the high $800s low $900s making them tempting for people doing new builds.


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## SIGSEGV (Nov 21, 2019)

Boring.


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## Razrback16 (Nov 21, 2019)

er557 said:


> Meh, at this point I'd rather wait for ampere



+1

Too little too late for Turing. Only way a set of Turing GPUs will end up in my machine is 2nd hand market.


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## moproblems99 (Nov 21, 2019)

notb said:


> Absolutely not what I said.
> All 3 companies (seriously, AMD is no different even if you'd like to believe that) *stretched their lineups*, because they've noticed a "rich" segment of clients that can afford more than could have been bought.



I'm pretty sure AMD wasn't setting any market price points over the last several generations.  What I don't get is this:



notb said:


> they've noticed a "rich" segment of clients that can afford more than could have been bought.



What is more than could have been bought?  Do you really think the 2080ti or ti super would not have been released if this magical 'rich' group didn't exist?  No, it would have been released at whatever price point they could have sold it for.  The upper class of purchasers have always existed.  Many have more money then sense.



notb said:


> 980Ti costed $650, which today gets you a 2080 / 2070 Super. That's twice the performance in 4 years => +20% yearly. That's still better than what AMD does with Zen.
> 2080Ti is a product in a different segment and it's priced accordingly.
> 
> The problem here is that people are too focused on naming. You think 2080Ti is a successor of 1080Ti and 980Ti, which makes you unhappy with the pricing.



Then they shouldn't name it the 2080ti if they don't want it associated with the 1080ti.  Unfortunately, it is a successor to the 1080ti, just like the 1080ti is a successor the the 980ti and so on.  That is what naming does.  The 2020 Mustang certainly isn't a successor to the 2019 Ford Explorer is it?



notb said:


> If 2070 Super was called 2080Ti and actual 2080Ti became 2090, you'd be perfectly fine with the pricing.



Not really.  That analogy is not very good.



notb said:


> The only reason to say that $5000 parts should cost $3000 is that you're able to buy or make equivalents for $3000, which is not the case.
> I totally understand you'd wish that top components were cheaper - every consumer does. But that's just a wish. Don't get too attached.



The 2000 series were basically Pascal with RayTracing.  The only decent card out of the bunch is the 2080s and 2080ti.  They were able to make the equivalents but they didn't want to, just look at the 1600 series.



oxrufiioxo said:


> I'm hoping these launch for around $999 so that more people can afford them. Had all the AIB models launched at $999 I would have picked one up at launch luckily I got a 2080 ti Strix OC on a flash sale for $1160 shipped 6 months ago.... Also the vanilla 2080 ti may drop into the high $800s low $900s making them tempting for people doing new builds.



I have yet to see one for less than $1099.  My price point is around $900 where I would entertain the idea.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 21, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> What is more than could have been bought?  Do you really think the 2080ti or ti super would not have been released if this magical 'rich' group didn't exist?  No, it would have been released at whatever price point they could have sold it for.  The upper class of purchasers have always existed.  Many have more money then sense.





This is very True 

I've been spending $8-1200 on GPU since 2012..... Prior to that I mostly gamed on console so as long as my PC ran Diablo and your typical RTS ( starcraft/C&C) I didn't really care. 

2012 680 sli $1100 / 7970 $550 secondary pc. 

2014 970 sli  $800. Such a good value over the 980 at the time. The 3.5GB framebuffer killed this card before the actual peformance did at least for me though 

2016 1080 sli $1400.  I actually only intended on buying one but pre ordered 2 just in case one shop didn't get them at launch but both shipped and decided to keep both 

2017 Titan XP $1200. decided to ditch sli and 1080 ti were over $1000 due to mining on the flip side I sold each 1080 for 700 on ebay but after fees I maybe lost 200 at most switching to a TItan XP.

2019 2080 ti $1155. I needed a second GPU for an additional system was originally going to buy a 2070 Super but my wife called me a Pussy for not just grabbing a 2080 ti

Honestly people complain about gpu pricing but in 2012 a  GTX 680 couldn't even do 1080p max settings on release in every game with a single card and a lot of games were barely over 60fps..... I remember barely hitting 45fps in crysis till I got a second gpu for example a 5 year old game at the time. I will say this though being able to use uber sampling in witcher 2 with 680 was pretty cool at the time 1920X1200 rez. 

I usually recommend people buy the fastest GPU they can afford  and when 1 wasn't fast enough I always bought 2.


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## moproblems99 (Nov 21, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> 2019 2080 ti $1155. I needed a second GPU for an additional system was originally going to buy a 2070 Super but my wife called me a Pussy for not just grabbing a 2080 ti



You are a lucky man.



oxrufiioxo said:


> Honestly people complain about gpu pricing but in 2012 a GTX 680 couldn't even do 1080p max settings on release in every game with a single card and a lot of games were barely over 60fps..... I remember barely hitting 45fps in crysis till I got a second gpu for example a 5 year old game at the time. I will say this though being able to use uber sampling in witcher 2 with 680 was pretty cool at the time 1920X1200 rez.



The problem isn't necessarily price/performance, that is just part of it.  Everybody says 'but but but, these are so complicated to make. Of course they are expensive.'  Yet somehow NV has managed to increase their margins on their products.  The other part of it:

980ti launch price:   $649.
1080ti launch price: $699.     35% performance increase over 980ti at 1080.    +43% @4k
2080ti launch price: $1199.   19% performance increase over 1080ti at 1080. +28% @ 4k.

Yeah, league of it's own.  World class.  It didn't even come close to the leap the previous gen did.  OHHHHHHHH but wait, how could I forget.  RTX. Duh.  You could do some RTX benchmarks for the first three months.  Then you had 1.21 more games available at the 6 month mark.  Even the games that did have it didn't look revolutionary.  Battlefield looked worse.  Granted, I could only see stills so perhaps some effect is loss not being there in person but what did the $500 increase get you?  RTX ON at 1080p @60 Hz.  Oh wait, they dumbed down the RTX in a title or two to make it more viable for their $1200 wonder card.

About $900 seemed like a more reasonable launch price given the above.  But what do I know?  People want what they want and will pay what they want.  More power to them.  But the price conditioning is real.  And it isn't going way.


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## killster1 (Nov 21, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> This is very True
> 
> I've been spending $8-1200 on GPU since 2012..... Prior to that I mostly gamed on console so as long as my PC ran Diablo and your typical RTS ( starcraft/C&C) I didn't really care.
> 
> ...


how much of your life do you spend playing games? as fast as they can afford usually would be more then needed. i dream one day maybe with zombies where its not safe to go outside and i can have time to play games or maybe when i retire, but right now i play maybe 1 hour a month


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 21, 2019)

killster1 said:


> how much of your life do you spend playing games? as fast as they can afford usually would be more then needed. i dream one day maybe with zombies where its not safe to go outside and i can have time to play games or maybe when i retire, but right now i play maybe 1 hour a month



I play 6-8 hours a week unless a huge game that I've been waiting for a while drops. Witcher 3 being a good example. I'm fortunate enough to only have to work 6-8 days a month and still afford a decent pc..... But I still spend more time traveling up to the Oregon coast. Going to NHL/NBA games Sharks/Lakers and hanging out with Friends.

People can really only decide for themselves what makes the most sense when it comes to buying GPU XYZ..... I can give recommendations just like anyone else doesn't mean if they buy a 570 and I was recommending a 1660 ti either of us is wrong they just grabbed what they felt best fit their needs.


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## moproblems99 (Nov 21, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> People can really only decide for themselves what makes the most sense when it comes to buying GPU XYZ..... I can give recommendations just like anyone else doesn't mean if they buy a 570 and I was recommending a 1660 ti either of us is wrong they just grabbed what they felt best fit their needs.



That's the truth.  Buy the fastest card you can/need.  If you want to buy extravagantly more than you need, awesome!  Ultimately, there is no wrong answer some are just better than others.  Only how good of a "deal" you got.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 21, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> You are a lucky man.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Trust me I think your $900 price is probably spot on but I also think die size played a large part in current GPU pricing.... Minus the FE Tax.... so $499 2070/ $699 2080 / $999 2080 ti

980 ti 601 mm²

2070 445 mm² / 2070 S 545 mm²

1080 ti 471 mm² / 2080 545 mm²

2080 ti 775 mm²  I truly hope they make a similar sized 7nm gpu but I also cringe at the thought of what it will cost.

You have to figure even though the 1080 ti was a pretty amazing card for its time it cost significantly less to produce than the 980 ti or 2080 ti.... I think mostly what happened with Turing is in order to get the extra performance the die size had to increase substantially. you have to figure if 7nm was ready at Turing launch we may have gotten slightly better pricing..... But also AMD hasn't competed at the ultra high end in forever so who knows.

At the same time AMD has a much smaller die with the 5700 vs 2070 and sill prices the card similarly I'm guessing part of that is 7nm is more expensive but Also amd in the past 7970 up until now has mostly just matched Nvidia pricing on similarly performing cards.


----------



## moproblems99 (Nov 21, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> You have to figure even though the 1080 ti was a pretty amazing card for its time it cost significantly less to produce than the 980 ti or 2080 ti.... I think mostly what happened with Turing is in order to get the extra performance the die size had to increase substantially. you have to figure if 7nm was ready at Turing launch we may have gotten slightly better pricing..... But also AMD hasn't competed at the ultra high end in forever so who knows.



It got bigger because they had to put so much RT and Tensor cores in it to even barf out the half baked RTRT that exists now.  If they used all the die space for good stuff, it would have been a monster.  Imagine if they did a 1680ti?  Oh yeah, probably not many people would have bought the 2080ti. Or 2080.  They took a large portion of the die and used it on stuff a large amount of people don't care for.  I possibly would have a bought a 1680ti day one at the price they could have launched it at.  Most definitely by now.



oxrufiioxo said:


> At the same time AMD has a much smaller die with the 5700 vs 2070 and sill prices the card similarly I'm guessing part of that is 7nm is more expensive but Also amd in the past 7970 up until now has mostly just matched Nvidia pricing on similarly performing cards.



Of course they did.  And they are absolutely loving life right now.  If Big Navi is good, they can bank on these inflated prices.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 21, 2019)

It would have been interesting to see how large a 1680 ti would have been the 1660ti is 284 mm² so you'd probably figure around 600 mm² still making it substantially bigger than a 1080 ti.  

I personally would have taken a 2080 ti at the same price with more smu and no RT cores. 

Volta was technically slower in gaming with more SMs though so who knows past a certain amount the architecture may be bottlenecked by something else.


----------



## Theliel (Nov 21, 2019)

And what about the people who already bought the TITAN RTX? Will they throw it away for this marginally faster card?


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 21, 2019)

Theliel said:


> And what about the people who already bought the TITAN RTX, will the throw it away for this marginally faster card?




Pretty sure most people who grabbed the Titan RTX are using it for something the 24GB of vram make sense for.


----------



## Theliel (Nov 21, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Pretty sure most people who grabbed the Titan RTX are using it for something the 24GB of vram make sense for.


Just as the RTX 2080 Ti/2070 Ti make little sense considering most games don't have such requirements and the majority of people don't use a native 8K 240Hz display.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 21, 2019)

Theliel said:


> Just as the RTX 2080 Ti/2070 Ti make little sense considering most games don't have such requirements and the majority of people don't use a native 8K 240Hz display.



Actually I barely get 60fps at 1440p in some areas with a 2080ti with ultra settings in RDR2 so it just depends I guess


----------



## Theliel (Nov 21, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Actually I barely get 60fps at 1440p in some areas with a 2080ti with ultra settings in RDR2 so it just depends I guess


That's just a case of a poorly / badly coded game.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 21, 2019)

Theliel said:


> That's just a case of a poorly / badly coded game.




I don't write engine code so I couldn't say.


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## Theliel (Nov 21, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I don't write engine code so I couldn't say.


There is no visual justification for such low framerates with such bad graphics and animations.


----------



## moproblems99 (Nov 21, 2019)

Theliel said:


> Just as the RTX 2080 Ti/2070 Ti make little sense considering most games don't have such requirements and the majority of people don't use a native 8K 240Hz display.



Que?  Not sure what the 2070 Ti is but anything over 1440@60hz requires more than than 2070S.


----------



## Theliel (Nov 21, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> anything over 1440@60hz requires more than than 2070S.


Does that include minecraft? Or do you mean anything released this year?


----------



## LiveOrDie (Nov 21, 2019)

Its not likely the card will carry both TI and Super and if it does would be more likely the other way around RTX 2080 Super Ti LMAO, this card will most likely be called something else Ultra maybe or 2088...


----------



## moproblems99 (Nov 21, 2019)

Theliel said:


> Does that include minecraft? Or do you mean anything released this year?



I'd say anything worth playing but that wouldn't be entirely true.  I don't play Minecraft so I don't know for sure but doesn't it run on a potato?  I doubt people buying $500+ gpus are primarily thinking about Minecraft.


----------



## Berfs1 (Nov 21, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> 1200 eur/usd is something I'd also guess, probably replacing the current one like Titan Xp did with Titan X(P).


Who knows, maybe a titan rtx super will also come out, with 18 GBps memory, and 2000 MHz core clocks (hypothetical lol), all under 375W


----------



## medi01 (Nov 21, 2019)

QUANTUMPHYSICS said:


> Thus far I'm very happy with my purchase and have no buyer's remorse.


Good to know it, dude, thanks for sharing!


----------



## Blueberries (Nov 21, 2019)

RTX Titan 2020 Z Ti Super Xc FTW3 Ultra Hydro-Copper OVERCLOCKED Hybrid Black Edition


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## Vayra86 (Nov 21, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> It got bigger because they had to put so much RT and Tensor cores in it to even barf out the half baked RTRT that exists now.  If they used all the die space for good stuff, it would have been a monster.  Imagine if they did a 1680ti?  Oh yeah, probably not many people would have bought the 2080ti. Or 2080.  They took a large portion of the die and used it on stuff a large amount of people don't care for.  I possibly would have a bought a 1680ti day one at the price they could have launched it at.  Most definitely by now.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they did.  And they are absolutely loving life right now.  If Big Navi is good, they can bank on these inflated prices.



There's also a bigger cache, which isn't the easiest bit to put on there, its effectively part of the tweaks to cater for RT as well.


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## John Naylor (Nov 21, 2019)

It's been widely accepted that the initial prcing on the 2xxx seris was saying ... yeah, we do have no stuff but we want ya to buy out th existing stock of 1xxx vcards left in inventory 1st.    When that happened, then price of all cards dropped into normal range ...  except for the 2080 Ti.  i can't help but wonder if the reason that the price has emained so high is that folks are buying them as fast as they can deliver them.  In the face of 0 competition, there's simply no incentive to drop price on products that are not gathering dust on shelves.


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## bug (Nov 21, 2019)

Blueberries said:


> RTX Titan 2020 Z Ti Super Xc FTW3 Ultra Hydro-Copper OVERCLOCKED Hybrid Black Edition


I'm pretty sure you forgot a Pro, a Premium and a Gold/Platinum. Then again, maybe you were just trying to be concise


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## Super XP (Nov 22, 2019)

I appreciate (To a certain extent) Nvidia for pumping out some nice powerful GPUs. But as powerful as they can be, I believe Games are not being properly coded nowadays to fully tap into modern GPUs from both AMD & Nvidia.
That's just what I see. Correct me if I am wrong.



Spoiler: BUT...



Though I am still pissed at Nvidia for trying to force feed GPP on its partners and consumers. 





Theliel said:


> That's just a case of a poorly / badly coded game.


I have to agree. Its too bad games are not coded properly to fully take advantage of modern GPUs from both companies.
I am hoping the next gen Navi which is suppose to be included in the new next gen consoles Sony & M$, that game companies do a much better job coding. As much as I dislike console ports onto PC, it seems that is what is happening.

Nvidia releasing this card which is really not needed? And will most likely be over $1300? Does not make any sense. AMD has given them competition in the mid range to the point where Nvidia was forced to launch a Super series. Now a high end Super? Either they are having issues with the design of the new gen or there is 7nm shortage issues. Its a GPU that is really not needed, and therefor its being launched most likely for a cash grab.


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## xorbe (Nov 22, 2019)

I guess this is nice for people that were about to buy a 2080Ti


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## Super XP (Nov 22, 2019)

xorbe said:


> I guess this is nice for people that were about to buy a 2080Ti


I can only imagine the high cost for this GPU, especially when there's a new 3000 series just around the corner based on 7nm. On top of the rumored Big Navi GPU by AMD which is said to be targeting the high end GPU segment.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 22, 2019)

Super XP said:


> I can only imagine the high cost for this GPU, especially when there's a new 3000 series just around the corner based on 7nm. On top of the rumored Big Navi GPU by AMD which is said to be targeting the high end GPU segment.



There's always something better around the corner. The problem is better has only come from 1 company for the last half decade.


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## bug (Nov 22, 2019)

Super XP said:


> I appreciate (To a certain extent) Nvidia for pumping out some nice powerful GPUs. But as powerful as they can be, I believe Games are not being properly coded nowadays to fully tap into modern GPUs from both AMD & Nvidia.
> That's just what I see. Correct me if I am wrong.


Many are just console games with an emulation layer on top. So not properly coded to run on anything, but rather cashing in on previous hype. But there are (sometimes notable) exceptions.


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## QUANTUMPHYSICS (Nov 22, 2019)

I forsee a $1500 price tag and the average 2080Ti dropping to $900 or $1000. 

I'm glad I went and bought an FTW3 and a BLACK because I figured prices weren't dropping anytime soon. The 2080Ti is the GOLD standard of GPU. 

I will not upgrade my computer anymore (except another 4TB SSD).  I will wait till the next generation of CPU with DDR5 memory and a 4080Ti.


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## EarthDog (Nov 22, 2019)

QUANTUMPHYSICS said:


> I forsee a $1500 price tag and the average 2080Ti dropping to $900 or $1000.
> 
> I'm glad I went and bought an FTW3 and a BLACK because I figured prices weren't dropping anytime soon. The 2080Ti is the GOLD standard of GPU.
> 
> I will not upgrade my computer anymore (except another 4TB SSD).  I will wait till the next generation of CPU with DDR5 memory and a 4080Ti.


I forsee this like all the other Supers... coming out at the same or less cost than the non-super version. I don't see this coming out at more than $1200.. then the normal 2080Ti's will drop below that. 

About the only reason I see it being more costly is due to its flagship 'dont rent, pwn' status.


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## bug (Nov 22, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> I forsee this like all the other Supers... coming out at the same or less cost than the non-super version. I don't see this coming out at more than $1200.. then the normal 2080Ti's will drop below that.
> 
> About the only reason I see it being more costly is due to its flagship 'dont rent, pwn' status.


If this will happen (it's not confirmed it will) I'm betting on 2080Ti being discontinued.


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## EarthDog (Nov 22, 2019)

bug said:


> If this will happen (it's not confirmed it will) I'm betting on 2080Ti being discontinued.


Just as discontinued as the other non supers, sure.


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## bug (Nov 22, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Just as discontinued as the other non supers, sure.


Afaik, only the 2060 has survived. Technically, the 1660 and 1660Ti are still with us, but they don't make sense anymore.


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## efikkan (Nov 22, 2019)

Super XP said:


> I appreciate (To a certain extent) Nvidia for pumping out some nice powerful GPUs. But as powerful as they can be, I believe Games are not being properly coded nowadays to fully tap into modern GPUs from both AMD & Nvidia.
> 
> That's just what I see. Correct me if I am wrong.


Games are usually produced like on a conveyor belt these days, crappy code "stitched together", barely working at launch, and then not maintained once it's shipping. But it's not only the utilization of modern GPUs that's bad, the code in general is bloated and buggy.


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## Theliel (Nov 23, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> I'd say anything worth playing but that wouldn't be entirely true.  I don't play Minecraft so I don't know for sure but doesn't it run on a potato?  I doubt people buying $500+ gpus are primarily thinking about Minecraft.


I've seen mincraft gameplay where 4 Titan Xp can't handle it at 4 K ... so many mods they flip...


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## EarthDog (Nov 23, 2019)

Theliel said:


> I've seen mincraft gameplay where 4 Titan Xp can't handle it at 4 K ... so many mods they flip...


Forest through the trees....forest through the trees.


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## moproblems99 (Nov 24, 2019)

I don't know why people freak out about edge  cases.  I guess we have to accept that the average Minecraft user buys $700 gpus.


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## efikkan (Nov 24, 2019)

Theliel said:


> I've seen mincraft gameplay where 4 Titan Xp can't handle it at 4 K ... so many mods they flip...


I don't think anyone consider Minecraft the pinnacle of game engine technology…
The game may be modding friendly, but the underlying game scales and performs terribly. The Titan cards are not the bottleneck.


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## matar (Nov 25, 2019)

I think they will go for 12GB 384bit


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## Turmania (Nov 29, 2019)

If this is true then I do not expect Ampere next Gen GPU before August 2020.


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## Midland Dog (Dec 13, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> This will be interesting to see where the price and performance land. Im imagining a couple/few percent performance and pricing to come in around $1100...
> 
> Nvidia didn't have to respond to Navi, really... (price adjustments I suppose is a response - but Im thinking arch), what makes you think Navi 2 is going to have them doing so? AMD just wants to compete on performance /$ (wattage be damned so far).
> 
> Just a quick note, the RTX 2060 Super costs around the same as a 5700 XT (their pricing overlaps on newegg) and is only a couple of % slower according to TPU reviews. Perhaps some prefer to use ray tracing and a lot less power (175W vs 225W) at a  very similar price point? I'd call that using their brains and not being poor, you?


lmao nvidia hasnt had to respond to rtg since forever, polaris was a gm204 competitor (in power consumption and perf) vega barely edged the 980ti and a rebrand of that with 1tb/s of bandwidth couldnt touch 1080ti, rdna 2 better be radically more efficient otherwise its gunna be a meme with the small rdna part using 225w on a 260mm sq die (ish), how tf are they gunna scale that up while maintaining clocks


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## lilkwarrior (Dec 15, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> yep Nvidia will be forced to respond to navi 2 with Ampere this summer or spring. buying this would be dumb, just another case of Nvidia milking people with too much money, but hey if they are dumb enough to keep buying it more power to nvidia. personally I'd rather be poor and have my brains.



First & foremost, can you really depend on AMD releasing a GPU catering to  games interested in 4K, high-end gamers, & enthuasists like Nvidia does? That's the sole purpose of a 2080TI+ at this point.

Nvidia's pro dominance has only *increased* with the lack of any convincing answer to Tensor Cores, Ray-Tracing Cores, and OpenCL still being abysmal to leverage for pro & high-end use cases like CUDA can.

That trickles down to the dominant position Nvidia has in the gaming front; more than anything Nvidia gains a lot with the existing RTX series now that console generation is finally being caught up to leveraging deep-learning & ray-tracing in games via the Xbox Series X & PS5.

Your position just sounds either-or to ignore.



The Quim Reaper said:


> 980Ti, 1080Ti & 2080Ti.
> 
> All were king of the hill for more than 12mths, 18mths for the 1080Ti.
> 
> ...



That doesn't make sense as the previous generations didn't have a Super product in between them and the fact that the latter 2 cards are targeting optimal rendering at 4x more pixels (4K) + ray-tracing + deep-learning.

For most pros & enthuaissts, It was obviously going to be obviously take longer releases between substantially different new GPUs from Nvidia as they're targeting MUCH harder outputs to markedly improve from. And it's going to cost some dough that prosumers can easily afford. Gamers not so much until economies of scale occur that are finally going to happen w/ this new card further + next gen of console gaming finally catching up.



lynx29 said:


> because it isn't full redesign... this is only half new architecture... Navi 2 is a full new design... there will be performance gains.


A new design doesn't mean it's going to be any close to the competitor's existing & past designs. AMD knows this too well from what Nvidia's Maxwell and up cards (1080TI+) have done to them vs. their newer cards.

It's gotten so bad, we all as GPU enthusiasts must hope Intel as a new alternative does a better job giving options and competition to the market with their new GPUs.

At minimum considering their current release of GPUs was without a doubt a disappointment, AMD has earned skepticism if Navi 2 is even going to actually compete w/ Nvidia RTX 1 flagship cards.

Heck, Nvidia current GPUs, thanks to their emphasis properly on deep-learning & ray-tracing supports all tiers of Variable-rate shading (VRS); AMD's card do not. AMD is touting support for that & ray-tracing with again warranted skepticism that it'll be anything close to Nvidia RTX 1 cards (next-gen console will fortunately at least have support for 'em to not hold back gaming further).


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## moproblems99 (Dec 15, 2019)

lilkwarrior said:


> A new design doesn't mean it's going to be any close to the competitor's existing & past designs. AMD knows this too well from what Nvidia's Maxwell and up cards (1080TI+) have done to them vs. their newer cards.



Navi is pretty competitive now.  It is not far-fetched to think some additional tweaks can bring them fully competitive.



lilkwarrior said:


> It's gotten so bad, we all as GPU enthusiasts must hope Intel as a new alternative does a better job giving options and competition to the market with their new GPUs.



You're better off hoping for Navi at this point.


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## bug (Dec 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Navi is pretty competitive now.  It is not far-fetched to think some additional tweaks can bring them fully competitive.


It is if you understand where and why they lag behind.
I'm not expecting miracles from RDNA2, but I hope they'll be competitive enough to stop Nvidia from pricing cards at $700+.


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## moproblems99 (Dec 15, 2019)

bug said:


> It is if you understand where and why they lag behind.
> I'm not expecting miracles from RDNA2, but I hope they'll be competitive enough to stop Nvidia from pricing cards at $700+.



I don't necessarily think this generation will be the one that they crawl out of the pit but they at least have the ladder in place.  Which is better than having the shovel in hand as it has been.


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## bug (Dec 15, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> I don't necessarily think this generation will be the one that they crawl out of the pit but they at least have the ladder in place.  Which is better than having the shovel in hand as it has been.


It also depends on what Nvidia does next 
Simply shrinking Turing to 7nm is already a tall order, but Nvidia may decide to throw some new stuff into the ring again. Probably not so soon after RTX/DXR and VRS, but who knows?


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## RainingTacco (Dec 29, 2019)

Titanum Super. What will be next Titanum Super Titanum? And then Titanum Super Titanum Super? xD


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## Fluffmeister (Dec 29, 2019)

RainingTacco said:


> Titanum Super. What will be next Titanum Super Titanum? And then Titanum Super Titanum Super? xD



It doesn't really matter does it? If you must have the fastest card available, you have one choice... nVidia.


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## umeng2002 (Jan 2, 2020)

Given nVidia's history and pricing scheme, it only makes sense from a value perspective to buy them right when a new GPU architecture is launched.

Wait for Ampere. Buying a 1.5 year old architecture is almost pointless now.

I have a feeling nVidia is really going to dedicate a lot more die space to RTX... essentially making the current RTX and RTX Super cards look laughably slow in ray-tracing.

After playing Metro Exodus, ray-traced global illumination is the real deal and worth the performance hit.


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