# Intel Core i7 8700K System, recommendations wanted



## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

Corsair Carbide SPEC-01 Red LED ATX Mid-Tower Computer Case - Black _(I could do without the LED bling but oh well)_
Cooler Master Hyper 212X CPU Cooler
Thermaltake 650 Watts ATX 80 Plus Gold Fully Modular Power Supply with RGB Lighting _(Again, I could do without the RGB bling but oh well)_
EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB Video Card
Samsung 960 EVO 500 GB V-NAND PCIe Gen 3 x4 NVMe M.2 Internal SSD
ASUS BC-12B1ST 16x DVDRW Burner/12x BD Reader Internal Drive
G.Skill Aegis 16GB 2 x 8GB DDR4-3000 PC4-24000 CL16 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit
ASUS PRIME Z370-A LGA 1151 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i7-8700K Coffee Lake 3.7 GHz LGA 1151 Boxed Processor
Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver Thermal Compound 3.5g

Any recommendations on this build is welcome. I still have some questions regarding the CPU cooler and whether or not it will be good enough since I do want to overclock the Core i7 8700K to 4.6 GHz (a rather conservative overclock). I'm not looking for crazy overclocks here, I'm just looking for something _slightly_ more than stock and boost speeds.

What do you think guys? I'm trying to future proof as much as I can here to have a system that will last... four years. Five if I push it.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 10, 2018)

I think you should be OK. though you can cut a few corners here and there AS5 is a little overrated in this day and age MX-4 should be just fine.  960 evos are good but dont overlook 950s if you can find them. though if you do want to save some more cash. WD Black edition -- not as fast as the samsung but quite a bit cheaper. 

Only 800Mb/s write but once you've installed your big apps on it. you dont need to worry about write speeds. Read speed again is slower but I doubt youre going to lose many precious seconds from a cold boot.


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

A person on another forum suggested that I upgrade to the Cooler Master Hyper 212X CPU Cooler, it's just a little bit better than the Cooler Master Hyper T4 that I chose earlier. Another suggestion was the Noctua NH-D15 but God damn, that thing is ugly as sin! As for Arctic Silver I always thought that it was the go-to stuff for just about any enthusiast.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 10, 2018)

If the D15 isnt to your taste you could always go for a Cryorig R1 Ultimate though I dont think it would fit in your chosen case.  Spec-01 Max cpu cooler height 150mm Noctua nh-d15 says its 165mm


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## Deleted member 67555 (Apr 10, 2018)

Maybe try liquid cooling...maybe 120mmx240mm


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## Folterknecht (Apr 10, 2018)

If you want to put around ~30$ into CPU cooling, there are nowdays better options than the 212. The BeQuiet Pure Rock and Artic Freezer 33 eSports come to mind.


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## jboydgolfer (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> A person on another forum suggested that I upgrade to the Cooler Master Hyper 212X CPU Cooler, it's just a little bit better than the Cooler Master Hyper T4 that I chose earlier. Another suggestion was the Noctua NH-D15 but God damn, that thing is ugly as sin! As for Arctic Silver I always thought that it was the go-to stuff for just about any enthusiast.



 The eighth generation doesn't run as hot as the seventh , & a lot of people make cpu cooling recommendations based off their experiences with the latter. I actually ran a stock Intel cooler from a 4690K on my 8600k ,and it worked fairly well at stock speeds.  Of course I wouldn't run it while I was crunching or doing any extended gaming, but the reason I'm mentioning this, is to put the cooling the realistic requirements of a coffee lake CPU into perspective.  I found my H110i GTX to be a MASSIVE overkill for my cpu (even while running 5ghz). I would say any reputable air cooler  with a 120 mm fan should handle the cooling needs of that CPU very well , I'd  even bet that a 92mm based air cooler would handle that CPUs cooling fairly decently at stock.  Every CPU differs in how it performs temperature-wise , but pretty much anything decent will handle it well.  

 I hope you get a good chip that over ClockZ good


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

jmcslob said:


> Maybe try liquid cooling...maybe 120mmx240mm


But wouldn't I have to have a two fan bank radiator setup? Which of course my chosen case doesn't support.

As for cooling I want to keep it below $75. Oh, and I'm buying all of my parts at Microcenter so I'm kind of sort of limited to what they have available.


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## JayCan73 (Apr 10, 2018)

You did't say what the pc was for. Personally for a gaming pc, I'd scrap the I7 for an I5, and maybe not go so highend on the ssd's in favor of a better gpu if possible.


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

I'm a gamer only in the sense that I play games, I'm much more of a multitasking fiend than a gamer. I'm not at all into the eSport scene.

I'm also looking for future proofing as much as possible and being limited to six threads seems like I'm backing myself into a corner whereas the i7 with the six extra threads (thanks to Hyperthreading) it should extend the life of the system by a good amount.


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## Hood (Apr 10, 2018)

FreedomEclipse said:


> I think you should be OK. though you can cut a few corners here and there AS5 is a little overrated in this day and age MX-4 should be just fine.  960 evos are good but dont overlook 950s if you can find them. though if you do want to save some more cash. WD Black edition -- not as fast as the samsung but quite a bit cheaper.
> 
> Only 800Mb/s write but once you've installed your big apps on it. you dont need to worry about write speeds. Read speed again is slower but I doubt youre going to lose many precious seconds from a cold boot.


The new WD Black SSD just came out, has much higher speeds (they're comparable to Samsung's) - here's the TPU article, and the Anandtech review -  https://www.techpowerup.com/243044/western-digital-introduces-new-black-3d-nvme-ssd,   https://www.anandtech.com/show/12543/the-western-digital-wd-black-3d-nand-ssd-review - now performs like the Samsung, but still has a low price.  The new WD Black drives start selling tomorrow (April 10th) ($450 for 1TB, $230 for 500GB, $120 for 250GB) https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820250099
  Also the CM Hyper T4 will cool better than Intel's stock unit, but will not let you use the 8700k's full potential.  240mm AIO water coolers start at $60 (CM Master Liquid Lite 240), which is a great deal, considering most others sell for $100-$150.  And that air cooler is a lot noisier.


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

But I can get the Samsung 960 EVO for $190 at Microcenter.

I've considered liquid cooling but I keep thinking that it won't fit into the case that I chose. I want to keep to a mid-tower because of size issues, I have a full-tower now for my current system but it's awfully damn big and bulky; I was looking for something that's smaller in stature.


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## jboydgolfer (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> But I can get the Samsung 960 EVO for $190 at Microcenter.
> 
> I've considered liquid cooling but I keep thinking that it won't fit into the case that I chose. I want to keep to a mid-tower because of size issues, I have a full-tower now for my current system but it's awfully damn big and bulky; I was looking for something that's smaller in stature.



Based on what it shows for fan compatibility you could definitely fit water cooling in there but I wouldn't go any bigger than 280mm  ,if you decide you want to go that route. 

* Actually based on corsairs specifications you can only fit up to an H 80. *


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## BadFrog (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> Corsair Carbide SPEC-01 Red LED ATX Mid-Tower Computer Case - Black _(I could do without the LED bling but oh well)_
> Cooler Master Hyper 212X CPU Cooler
> Thermaltake 650 Watts ATX 80 Plus Gold Fully Modular Power Supply with RGB Lighting _(Again, I could do without the RGB bling but oh well)_
> EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB Video Card
> ...



What's your budget for this build? Or you want to keep it reasonable?


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

Total budget, $1850. I have a stupid 8% sales tax here so take that into account as well.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> Total budget, $1850. I have a stupid 8% sales tax here so take that into account as well.



only 8% ??? Oh lord. youre living in a paradise. our tax rate is 20% here in the UK which takes all the fun out of buying something big. I kill myself working double shifts to buy a car or 1080ti -- I pay income tax, then i pay 20% Value Added Tax ontop of ANYTHING and EVERYTHING im about to purchase.


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## BadFrog (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> Corsair Carbide SPEC-01 Red LED ATX Mid-Tower Computer Case - Black _(I could do without the LED bling but oh well)_
> Cooler Master Hyper 212X CPU Cooler
> Thermaltake 650 Watts ATX 80 Plus Gold Fully Modular Power Supply with RGB Lighting _(Again, I could do without the RGB bling but oh well)_
> EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB Video Card
> ...



I assume you use the CD Rom drive as a blueray drive? If not, do you really need it? Can save $50 there. 



FreedomEclipse said:


> only 8% ??? Oh lord. youre living in a paradise. our tax rate is 20% here in the UK which takes all the fun out of buying something big. I kill myself working double shifts to buy a car or 1080ti -- I pay income tax, then i pay 20% Value Added Tax ontop of ANYTHING and EVERYTHING im about to purchase.



Simple fix, move to his state in the US


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## jboydgolfer (Apr 10, 2018)

5 Percents actually kind a high in comparison to where I live  . Or just go to a state like Delaware ,where they don't have any sales tax.  Or just buy from a store like Newegg.com

Also $1850 for a "budget"?!?! .  That's more than twice what I paid for my current computer which I built about a month and a half ago , that budget is so far beyond what I would ever spend on a computer ,it's impressively far beyond.  I can't justify spending more than about $800 at most.  I'm guessing that a lot of that is video card, ill buy a video card when a GTX 1080 goes back to its $500+ MSRP, or never, whichever comes 1st


On a separate note:
I know it'll never happen because people lack self-control often but if buyers stopped splurging and started spending conservatively and buying what they need as opposed to what they think they need or want retailers wouldn't have a choice but to bring down prices where they could.  I have always put 16 GB of RAM in my PCs but that was when you could pay $80 for 16 GB now that it cost three times that much I would never buy 16 GB and I found it eight is sufficient.  The same goes for video cards. If people pay these ridiculous prices even if it's only 20% over MSRP, you're telling the retailers you're OK with that price and it's only feeding the monster snowball that mining created


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## Space Lynx (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> Corsair Carbide SPEC-01 Red LED ATX Mid-Tower Computer Case - Black _(I could do without the LED bling but oh well)_
> Cooler Master Hyper 212X CPU Cooler
> Thermaltake 650 Watts ATX 80 Plus Gold Fully Modular Power Supply with RGB Lighting _(Again, I could do without the RGB bling but oh well)_
> EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB Video Card
> ...



Includes a EVGA 2 fan 1080 Ti, 8700k, 360mm watercooler, 2x8gb 16gb total ddr4 3000 ram, 2 mechanical keyboards (kalih switch not cherry but still good), Asus Prime z370 mobo, and a much nicer case than the one you picked (I own the carbide spec-01 and its cheaper IRL than pics show, its junk honestly. get the thermaltake view 22 like i did  much much better decision at $59.

or just buy this build from cyberpowerpc (no tax and free shipping) $1980 total price. you will need to provide your own win 10. as this build has it removed to save costs.


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

BadFrog said:


> I assume you use the CD Rom drive as a blueray drive?


What can I say? I still have a healthy DVD and BluRay collection that I want to watch on my computer.


jboydgolfer said:


> Or just buy from a store like Newegg.com


Ever since NewEgg was bought by that one company their customer service went to absolute shit. I won't support how they're treating their customers now.


jboydgolfer said:


> I'm guessing that a lot of that is video card


Yep, $350 for that damn GTX1060. Yikes!


jboydgolfer said:


> I have always put 16 GB of RAM in my PCs but that was when you could pay $80 for 16 GB now that it cost three times that much I would never buy 16 GB and I found it eight is sufficient.


And here I am, according to Process Hacker, using 9.32 GBs of RAM and I'm not even pushing this system. I've got Firefox open right now with ten tabs and it's using 4.2 GBs of RAM.

I keep swap file usage to an absolute minimum!!! Swap file bad!!! Don't use it! If you're using swap, *you need more RAM!!!* Anytime you use the swap file overall system performance takes a shit.


jboydgolfer said:


> The same goes for video cards.


What are we supposed to do? We need video cards? Right? They have us by the short hairs and they know it.


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## Space Lynx (Apr 10, 2018)

@trparky you can find nice 1080 ti's on ebay now for $730-750 range, if not cheaper if you get a lucky bid in at last second. crypto has crashed, markets are being flooded with cards.


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## evernessince (Apr 10, 2018)

The 2700X comes out next week with a boost clock of 4.35 GHz.  It has two more cores than the 8700K, comes with the brand new wraith prism RBG (which is better than a Hyper 212), and the platform is supported until 2021.  The gaming performance is about even and the two extra cores gives the 2700X better multi-tasking and future proofing. X370 motherboards also have 2 more USB ports on average than the comparable Intel motherboard.  I know this because I was checking around for motherboards for VR and many Intel Z370 motherboards simply didn't have enough USB ports.



lynx29 said:


> @trparky you can find nice 1080 ti's on ebay now for $730-750 range, if not cheaper if you get a lucky bid in at last second. crypto has crashed, markets are being flooded with cards.



Mined on cards though.  You have to hope that the card wasn't tortured or BIOS flashed.


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## Space Lynx (Apr 10, 2018)

evernessince said:


> The 2700X comes out next week with a boost clock of 4.35 GHz.  It has two more cores than the 8700K, comes with the brand new wraith prism RBG (which is better than a Hyper 212), and the platform is supported until 2021.  The gaming performance is about even and the two extra cores gives the 2700X better multi-tasking and future proofing. X370 motherboards also have 2 more USB ports on average than the comparable Intel motherboard.  I know this because I was checking around for motherboards for VR and many Intel Z370 motherboards simply didn't have enough USB ports.
> 
> 
> 
> Mined on cards though.  You have to hope that the card wasn't tortured or BIOS flashed.




benches already leaked on 2700x, its worse in games. 10 fps faster min frames for intel still. cinebench single core (most important for 99% of games) is still 40 points ahead of ryzen 2700x cinebench score which scored a 175 at 4.3ghz, my 8600k at 5ghz does 211 points. id rather have 6 strong cores than 16 weak ones. as most of the games i play need strong single core the most.  world of wacraft for example, on a 2700x is using 85-95% of single cpu core on it, where as single core on mine it uses around 60-70% , max.    your funeral though, enjoy

majority of mined cards are still fine and were run at 75% of max power not full power to save energy costs. actually one could argue mined cards are safer to buy used than hardcore OC'd gaming ones. lol


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

evernessince said:


> Mined on cards though. You have to hope that the card wasn't tortured or BIOS flashed.


I won't buy mined-on cards. Let the miners choke on their cards!


evernessince said:


> The 2700X comes out next week with a boost clock of 4.35 GHz. It has two more cores than the 8700K


I really would love to support AMD Ryzen but the architecture is still too young, too troublesome to get into right now. Give AMD another two or three years, then they'll have their platform issues fixed. Until then... Intel it is. No one ever got fired for buying Intel.


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## Space Lynx (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> I won't buy mined-on cards. Let the miners choke on their cards!
> 
> I really would love to support AMD Ryzen but the architecture is still too young, too troublesome to get into right now. Give AMD another two or three years, then they'll have their platform issues fixed. Until then... Intel it is. No one ever got fired for buying Intel.




I agree with you on both statements.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Apr 10, 2018)

What Microcenter location are you planning on going to?


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

If I go and get a CyberpowerPC and have them build it it would be a great system. So far I have the following picked out.



Spoiler: CyberPowerPC Specs



*Operating System: *Windows 10 Pro (64-bit Edition)
*Spring Gaming Featured Promotions:* CyberpowerPC Gaming Mouse Pad
*Gaming Chassis:* Phanteks Enthoo Pro E-ATX Full-Tower w/ USB 3.0, Side-Panel Window (Black Color)
*Extra Case Fans:* 3X 120mm Case Fans for your selected case
*CPU:* Intel® Core™ Processor i7-8700K 3.70GHZ 12MB Intel Smart Cache LGA1151 (Coffee Lake)
*Venom Boost Fast And Efficient Factory Overclocking:* Extreme OC (Extreme Overclock 20% or more)
*CPU / Processor Cooling Fan:* Asetek 591LX 360mm Liquid CPU Cooling System w/ Copper Cold Plate - Extreme Performance (3 x Standard 120MM Fans)
*Motherboard:* ASUS PRIME Z370-P ATX w/ USB 3.1, 2 PCIe x16, 3 PCIe x1, 6 SATA3, 2 M.2 SATA/PCIe [Intel Optane Ready]
*RAM / System Memory:* 16GB (8GBx2) DDR4/3000MHz Dual Channel Memory (ADATA XPG Z1)
*Video Card:* GeForce® GTX 1060 6GB GDDR5 (Pascal)[VR Ready] (Single Card)
*Power Supply:* 600 Watts - Thermaltake SMART series 600Watts 80 Plus Gold high-efficient Power Supply
*Primary Hard Drive: 512GB WD Black Series PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD - Seq R/W:* Up to 2050/700 MB/s, Rnd R/W up to 170/130k (Single Drive)
*Secondary Hard Drive:* 3TB (3TBx1) SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 64MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (Single Drive)
*Sound:* HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
*Speakers:* Creative Inspire T3300 2.1 Speakers System
*Internal Network Card:* Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
*Keyboard:* CyberpowerPC Multimedia USB Gaming Keyboard
*Mouse:* CyberpowerPC Standard 4000 DPI with Weight System Optical Gaming Mouse
*Mouse Pad: Corsair Gaming MM200 Mouse Mat - Standard Edition PN:*CH-9000079-WW
*Bluetooth:* USB Micro Bluetooth Adapter (V4.0 EDR + aptX)
*Flash Media Reader/Writer:* INTERNAL 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer (BLACK COLOR)
*USB Hub & Port:* Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
*Professional Wiring:* Professional Wiring for All WIRING Inside The System Chassis - Minimize Cable Exposure, Maximize Airflow in Your System
*Ultra Care Option:* Ultra Enhanced Packaging Solution - Protect Your Dream System During Transit
*Warranty: PREMIUM WARRANTY:* Standard 1 Year Parts WARRANTY + ONE (1) YEAR SHIPPING
*Service:* 3 Years FREE Service Plan (INCLUDES LABOR AND LIFETIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT)
*Rush Service: Standard processing time:* ship within 12 to 15 Business Days



*Total Cost:* $1,813

If I drop the Creative Inspire T3300 2.1 Speakers System from the build it's $1,764.


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## Space Lynx (Apr 10, 2018)

you said you want this for long term use though, and if you already have a copy of win 10, my build was only $100 more but had a 1080 ti in it... :/ you won't notice any gains really over SSD for gaming over NVMe... better off doing what i did


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

lynx29 said:


> if you already have a copy of win 10


I technically don't have a license of Windows 10 available but I do have a Windows 7 license key available so as long as Microsoft doesn't turn off the ability to freely upgrade a Windows 7 key to a Windows 10 key I should be good to go.

I still want the NVMe drive because it's... well, it's fast as f**k! 

*Edit*
If I drop the flash media reader ($10) along with the Bluetooth adapter ($14) I can bring it down to $1,740.

*Edit #2*
I shaved off a little bit more by getting a different case, one that doesn't have room for optical drives. Who cares? I can get a decent USB-Connected BluRay drive if and when the need arises.



Spoiler: Version 1.8 of my CyberPowerPC Build



*Operating System:* Windows 10 Pro (64-bit Edition)
*Spring Gaming Featured Promotions:* CyberpowerPC Gaming Mouse Pad
*Message:* $50 Amex Gift Card for all Intel Desktops
*Gaming Chassis:* CyberPowerPC COUGAR PANZER Mid-Tower High Airflow Gaming Case w/ USB 3.0 & Tempered Glass Window (Black Color)
*Extra Case Fans:* Default case fans
*CPU:* Intel® Core™ Processor i7-8700K 3.70GHZ 12MB Intel Smart Cache LGA1151 (Coffee Lake)
*Freebie of Processor:* Q1' 18 Intel® Core™ i7 Performance Bundle WW Premium
*Venom Boost Fast And Efficient Factory Overclocking:* Extreme OC (Extreme Overclock 20% or more)
*CPU / Processor Cooling Fan:* Asetek 591LX 360mm Liquid CPU Cooling System w/ Copper Cold Plate - Extreme Performance (3 x Standard 120MM Fans)
*Motherboard:* ASUS PRIME Z370-P ATX w/ USB 3.1, 2 PCIe x16, 3 PCIe x1, 6 SATA3, 2 M.2 SATA/PCIe [Intel Optane Ready]
*RAM / System Memory:* 16GB (8GBx2) DDR4/3000MHz Dual Channel Memory (ADATA XPG Z1)
*Video Card:* GeForce® GTX 1060 6GB GDDR5 (Pascal)[VR Ready] (Single Card)
*Power Supply:* 600 Watts - Thermaltake SMART series 600Watts 80 Plus Gold high-efficient Power Supply
*Primary Hard Drive: 512GB WD Black Series PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD - Seq R/W:* Up to 2050/700 MB/s, Rnd R/W up to 170/130k (Single Drive)
*Secondary Hard Drive:* 3TB (3TBx1) SATA-III 6.0Gb/s 64MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (Single Drive)
*Sound:* HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
*Internal Network Card:* Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
*Keyboard:* CyberpowerPC Multimedia USB Gaming Keyboard
*Mouse:* CyberpowerPC Standard 4000 DPI with Weight System Optical Gaming Mouse
*Mouse Pad: Corsair Gaming MM200 Mouse Mat - Standard Edition PN:*CH-9000079-WW
*USB Hub & Port:* Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
*Professional Wiring:* Professional Wiring for All WIRING Inside The System Chassis - Minimize Cable Exposure, Maximize Airflow in Your System
*Ultra Care Option:* Ultra Enhanced Packaging Solution - Protect Your Dream System During Transit, and more(1)
*Warranty: PREMIUM WARRANTY:* Standard 1 Year Parts WARRANTY + ONE (1) YEAR SHIPPING
*Service:* 3 Years FREE Service Plan (INCLUDES LABOR AND LIFETIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT)
*Rush Service: Standard processing time:* ship within 12 to 15 Business Days


*Total Cost:* $1,696


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## Space Lynx (Apr 10, 2018)

for long term use, I would rather you go very very cheap on gpu then get the next line of GPU's when they come out, or just get a 1080 ti now if you don't want to mess with it... you can also try other sites that have prebuilt PC's, I like Cyberpower because they let you remove OS which shaves 60 bucks off, and its also fairly priced imo. that much money mate...  yikes. i'd rather see you do this and save some money... also look at the case I picked for that build, ITS GORGEOUS lol... its not glass, but as long as you sit 1-2 arms lengths away and take care of it it will look nice. $1368 total. I know you refuse to use Newegg, but I dunno this is just my two cents, I use newegg weekly and have 0 issues returning stuff if i need to. I returned a monitor about two months ago they gave me a full refund. add $100 and replace the 1070 ti witha  1080 ti if your willing to buy it off ebay... I know you said no and I understand in full, but $100 for like 50 extra fps in games... is hard to resist... anyways cheers mate, bed time for me.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Fm8K4q

@trparky


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

And here I thought that that price was pretty damn good. If it weren't for the inflated GPU prices perhaps the price would be better. The fact that I'm keeping the price under $1700 is a damn miracle.

As for my monitor I'm still at 1080p with two 60hz monitors and I usually enable vSync to prevent screen tearing.

Yes, I am thinking about upgrading to 1440p but that's at least two or three years away. I personally don't think that the tech is mature enough. When it is, I'll upgrade then but not before.


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## Vayra86 (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> I keep swap file usage to an absolute minimum!!! Swap file bad!!! Don't use it! If you're using swap, *you need more RAM!!!* Anytime you use the swap file overall system performance takes a shit.



What?! This is complete nonsense. I run 16 GB and have things in page file all the time, with 7 GB of RAM doing absolutely nothing. Not sure where you got this weird idea from. Performance doesn't take a hit either. You can multitask your ass off but you won't use 32 GB.

Similarly, the NVME drives have no real advantage either, big number does not necessarily make a system or even a task faster. You're budget constrained and you waste a big chunk of it on nonsensical, factually wrong decision making. In the same vein, you could reconsider losing the HT and making space for a better GPU, more storage, etc. etc. And you will not notice that either, just as 32 GB or NVME. Multitasking doesn't mean you need HT by any stretch of the imagination. You need HT for simultaneous threads for specific applications and gaming isn't one of them, and neither is a browser with four thousand tabs.

About the Cyberpower list; Thermaltake PSU: OUT. Case? Questionable. Asetek 360mm AIO? Waste of time.

There is a LOT more PC to be had here with your budget, and @lynx29 is making a good suggestion with regards to the GPU as well. Keep it gentle now and invest in the rest, go big later when prices settle. But with 1700 and the right choices there isn't really much compromise needed.

For performance/dollar, focus on the following:
6 core at highest possible clock - either 8700k or 8600k, you know best if you use apps that benefit from HT, but getting HT 'because 6 cores might not be enough' will never work, because HT isn't a physical core. A quad core i7 turns obsolete at the same time as a quad core i5, for gaming at least.
Air cooling is effective, AIO's are a waste of time.
Board: Stick to the 130-160 dollar segment and focus on feature set
RAM: at least 3000mhz C 16, or you waste potential on the CPU
GPU: all excess budget should go here, not into silly things like those pointed out before


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## evernessince (Apr 10, 2018)

lynx29 said:


> benches already leaked on 2700x, its worse in games. 10 fps faster min frames for intel still. cinebench single core (most important for 99% of games) is still 40 points ahead of ryzen 2700x cinebench score which scored a 175 at 4.3ghz, my 8600k at 5ghz does 211 points. id rather have 6 strong cores than 16 weak ones. as most of the games i play need strong single core the most.  world of wacraft for example, on a 2700x is using 85-95% of single cpu core on it, where as single core on mine it uses around 60-70% , max.    your funeral though, enjoy
> 
> majority of mined cards are still fine and were run at 75% of max power not full power to save energy costs. actually one could argue mined cards are safer to buy used than hardcore OC'd gaming ones. lol



I don't think getting 250 FPS on my 144 Hz monitor is "my funeral", in fact it's not even going to be visible.

Also are you sure about that Cinebench score?  I can get 172 right now at 3.8 GHz with DDR4 3200.  The score you were looking at must have been with RAM at stock settings, is should pickup another 20 points with faster RAM.



trparky said:


> I won't buy mined-on cards. Let the miners choke on their cards!
> 
> I really would love to support AMD Ryzen but the architecture is still too young, too troublesome to get into right now. Give AMD another two or three years, then they'll have their platform issues fixed. Until then... Intel it is. No one ever got fired for buying Intel.



I can understand that.


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## Hockster (Apr 10, 2018)

Try the NZXT prebuilt configurator. 

https://www.letsbld.com/


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## jboydgolfer (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> What are we supposed to do?



Game on old HW until, or go without. Its as simple as that.   I own five PCs ,all of which are gaming computers, and I used to upgrade them every one to two years, I absolutely refuse to do that when a video card costs almost as much as I'm willing to spend on the entire system.   Years ago I used to run games on a GTX210,  it wasn't great and the frames were shit ,but it "played" games.  Another example would be when I built my nephews computer. It was running a HD6950  that was donated to me by a generous member. Now that wasn't a perfect resolution but it worked .  The only way a market will change is if it has to. I'm guessing they saw a significant drop off in purchases when prices were at their highest during the recent months, so they've scaled back quite a bit (also crypto drops made a huge impact), but the moment those sales go up to an acceptable level, the price drops will cease.

I think it's important to keep the main theme here in focus which is not animosity to any particular group but rather wanting the market to go to a reasonable level as a collective group of enthusiasts


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> Asetek 360mm AIO? Waste of time.


But I've been hearing that the big CPU cooling towers have been causing major issues with recent Intel chips especially now that the PCBs are thinner than they have been before. This of course caused many people to break their CPUs by bending them while they are in the socket. Everyone has told me to go AIO liquid coolers since they are far less heavy on the socket and processor. I've been researching the hell out of this and since I've been seeing no talk about this issue being resolved (like Intel going back to the old PCB that never had problems) so it must still be a problem and that people are killing their chips with overly heavy coolers.

And we're not even talking about the fact that Coffee Lake chips run as hot as a MOFO. Add some overclocking and good God, that chip is going to be running close to 70C and that's not good at all; that's way too close to 90C for my comfort.


Vayra86 said:


> Case? Questionable.


Well it's the cheapest mid-tower case that supports a 360mm AIO liquid cooler for the processor.


Vayra86 said:


> What?! This is complete nonsense. I run 16 GB and have things in page file all the time, with 7 GB of RAM doing absolutely nothing. Not sure where you got this weird idea from. Performance doesn't take a hit either. You can multitask your ass off but you won't use 32 GB.


Because data storage devices, even SSDs, are several orders of magnitude slower than system RAM. Any time you have to go to your storage drive, especially in the case if you don't have enough system RAM, you're going to incur a performance hit because the system will have to wait for data to be swapped in and swapped out. This of course puts more stress on your SSD because remember that even the best SSDs have limited write endurance (it's not unlimited).


Vayra86 said:


> NVME drives have no real advantage either


I can understand that, taking the NVMe SSD off and replacing it with a SATA SSD shaved off $50. I just figured that if I were to build this system now I'd go for the very best that I can with the budget that I have.


Vayra86 said:


> Thermaltake PSU: OUT.


At CyberPowerPC every other power supply actually adds to the cost. They have some kind of sale on the PSU.


Vayra86 said:


> 6 core at highest possible clock - either 8700k or 8600k, you know best if you use apps that benefit from HT, but getting HT 'because 6 cores might not be enough' will never work, because HT isn't a physical core. A quad core i7 turns obsolete at the same time as a quad core i5, for gaming at least.


I always thought that more threads means more longevity. I have 3570K @ 4.4 GHz and I can definitely tell when the CPU usage starts spiking, overall system performance takes a hit. CPU usage during moderate to semi-heavy work loads should never exceed 25% usage across all cores or you're going to have dips in performance during your gaming session. Processor context switches are computationally expensive to occur, the more threads (regardless if they are real cores or not) should mean (at least in theory) that there will be less context switches thus more time for your processor to do actual work instead of swapping stuff in and out all the time.

I'm just trying to make this system last a long time, this system is going to be in it for the long haul. I'm talking five years or more. I may do piece-by-piece upgrades over the years (like a GPU upgrade) but I want to start out with a solid system now to build upon if and when the time comes to do upgrades. Not only that but when it comes to building the system myself I just don't feel comfortable building it myself what with people bending and breaking their Intel chips.


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## Vario (Apr 10, 2018)

You are buying late into the current videocard cycle, I would make do without the 1060 until next gen comes.
Heatsink 212 should be adequate for your planned 4.6 GHz.  The processors will go to 5 easily with most high end coolers.

If you don't like the NHD15 based on its colors look at the Phanteks PH-TC14PE.  It is as good as the NHD15 and Cry Orig, really the top end of Air Coolers have all the same performance result.  
Edit: but your case is too thin for this, I think you need 170mm.


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

Vario said:


> The processors will go to 5 easily with most high end coolers.


But those big beefy coolers are killing Intel chips because of the thinner PCBs. Every Google search seems to say that most coolers are too heavy, they'll cause the processor to bend in the socket all because Intel cheaped out on the PCB thus killing the processor.


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## R0H1T (Apr 10, 2018)

If you aren't in a hurry you should wait for the RAM or GPU prices to cool off, there's a good chance that we might see 2016 level pricing, or lower, in the next quarter or two. Right now you're overpaying on account of mining & DRAM makers not expanding capacity, also did I mention that power outage at Samsung?


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

R0H1T said:


> there's a good chance that we might see 2016 level pricing


I doubt that, the US Dollar just isn't worth what it used to be worth due to out of control inflation but we're not on an economics forum here so just leave it at that.

Want proof of that? Walk into grocery store and look at the candy isle. You can't find a 50 cent candy bar to save your life, they're all $1 now and not only that but they're a quarter of the size that they used to be. There's your proof right there that the US Dollar is worth shit. Not only that but years ago you used to be able to get a 16oz pop (that's soda for you guys in the south) for about $1 and some change, now it's like $2. Two liters used to be 50 cents, now it's like $1. Bread used to be 89 cents, now it's like $2. I could go on and on with multiple examples to show that the US Dollar's value is in the toilet.


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## bug (Apr 10, 2018)

My 2 cents:
AsRock can usually provide motherboards that are at least on par with Asus and sometimes at lower prices.
I believe Seasonic build some power supplies without the LED that you can do without.
NVMe SSD is not a requirement, you can save some $$$ there (see: http://www.legitreviews.com/game-load-time-benchmarking-shootout-six-ssds-one-hdd_204468 ). Better yet, don't save $$$, but get a bigger drive instead.


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

R0H1T said:


> If you aren't in a hurry you should wait for the RAM or GPU prices to cool off


I'm in a hurry right now because GPU prices are expected to rise back up again within the next month and a half. That is, if you ask UFD Tech on YouTube; in one of his recent videos he talked about Monero cryptocurrency doubling in value virtually overnight which of course that means and everyone and their cat and dog are going to be buying video cards again and we're going to be right back in the cryptocurrency hell once again.

And before you say that you can buy cheap cards on eBay once the new cards are out, let me say it once again. The miners can choke on their cards for all I give a damn.


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## Space Lynx (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> I'm in a hurry right now because GPU prices are expected to rise back up again within the next month and a half. That is, if you ask UFD Tech on YouTube; in one of his recent videos he talked about Monero cryptocurrency doubling in value virtually overnight which of course that means and everyone and their cat and dog are going to be buying video cards again and we're going to be right back in the cryptocurrency hell once again.
> 
> And before you say that you can buy cheap cards on eBay once the new cards are out, let me say it once again. The miners can choke on their cards for all I give a damn.



Monero is only mined with CPU's.  To my knowledge anyway, GPU's actually mine it very slow.


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

Well back to the drawing board, that deal over at that site is done with; I can't get it. Now I don't know what to do. I read about this crap (#Bendgate) and I have my reservations about using beefy air cooling and why I'm so dead set on using liquid cooling.


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## John Naylor (Apr 10, 2018)

Corsair Carbide SPEC-01 Red LED ATX Mid-Tower Computer Case - _Not one of my favs.... I prefer the Phanteks options in this price range_

Cooler Master Hyper 212X CPU Cooler - _For an additional $7 you can get the Scythe Mugen max which outperforms or matches the performance of the Noctu NH-D15 or Crryorig R1 Ultimate_

Thermaltake 650 Watts ATX 80 Plus Gold Fully Modular Power Supply with RGB Lighting - _If budget an issue, the Seasonic Focus series would be my c choice_

EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB Video Card - _EVGA's SC line uses a stock PCB, I'd lean MSI Gaming or Gigabyte here... thgey got the highest rating\s here on TPU_
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_1060_Gaming_X/
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_1060_Xtreme_Gaming/

Samsung 960 EVO 500 GB V-NAND PCIe Gen 3 x4 NVMe M.2 Internal SSD - _Fine choice_

ASUS BC-12B1ST 16x DVDRW Burner/12x BD Reader Internal Drive - _Just about anything will do_

G.Skill Aegis 16GB 2 x 8GB DDR4-3000 PC4-24000 CL16 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit - _This seems to have higher CAS timings than the more recognized Gskll product lines, but I am not familiar with it ... I usually go 3200 CAS 16 or 3000 CAS 1_5

ASUS PRIME Z370-A LGA 1151 ATX Intel Motherboard -_ Unlike most Asus boards in this price range, ya get a decent audio subsystem ... w/ just 46& 5 egg rating and 20% 1 egg, doesn't seem to be a hit among board owners._

Intel Core i7-8700K Coffee Lake 3.7 GHz LGA 1151 Boxed Processor - _system based here so no comment_

Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver Thermal Compound 3.5g - Read AS5's web site ...



> (While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 5 should be kept away from electrical traces,             pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is very slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.)
> 
> Due to the unique shape and sizes of the particles in Arctic Silver 5's conductive matrix, it will take a up to 200 hours and several thermal cycles to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity.  (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink or with a low speed fan on the heatsink.) On systems measuring actual internal core temperatures via the CPU's internal diode, the measured  temperature will often drop 2C to 5C over this "break-in" period. This break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer  as long as the computer is turned off from time to time and the interface is allowed to cool to room temperature. Once the break-in is complete, the computer can be left on if desired.



Shin Etsu is half the price, same thermal properties and none of the above issues
https://archive.benchmarkreviews.co...k=view&id=150&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=12

https://www.directron.com/g751.html...MIqPaapqGw2gIVRODICh1TswQWEAYYBSABEgI4NfD_BwE

As for liquid cooling, suffice to say I ahve yet to see a single CLC cooler that performs as well as an ir cooler for the same price... at the $37 Mugen Max / $45 Fuma from Scyther outperform most.   But as CLcs use aluminum rads with copper blocks, this is what's in your future if you go that route 

https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/

If ya want all in one liquid cooling, te only ones I would consider is EK and Swiftech
http://www.swiftech.com/drive-x2-aio.aspx


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## Vayra86 (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> But those big beefy coolers are killing Intel chips because of the thinner PCBs. Every Google search seems to say that most coolers are too heavy, they'll cause the processor to bend in the socket all because Intel cheaped out on the PCB thus killing the processor.





trparky said:


> And we're not even talking about the fact that Coffee Lake chips run as hot as a MOFO. Add some overclocking and good God, that chip is going to be running close to 70C and that's not good at all; that's way too close to 90C for my comfort.
> 
> 
> Because data storage devices, even SSDs, are several orders of magnitude slower than system RAM. Any time you have to go to your storage drive, especially in the case if you don't have enough system RAM, you're going to incur a performance hit because the system will have to wait for data to be swapped in and swapped out. This of course puts more stress on your SSD because remember that even the best SSDs have limited write endurance (it's not unlimited).
> ...



Point for point:

- Coffee Lake runs hot *with or without* an AIO. Only custom water will really make a difference, and then ONLY if you also delid the CPU. And you don't seem too willing to do that. So: don't waste money on exotic cooling that will not show its benefit anyway. Its not 'better' to run Coffee Lake at 50 C than it is to run at 70-80 C. It won't clock noticeably higher, it won't degrade slower, it simply is not relevant. And while an Espresso is recommended to be drank at 60 C or something like that, this is a CPU and it has a thermal ceiling of 100C. There is plenty of headroom, you will *never* have a 20 C difference in your ambient temperature and if you do, its time to spend this money on proper heating or airconditioning 

I run a Dark Rock Pro 3 on my 8700K which is similar in weight to a Noctua DH15, have 75-80 C (maximum) temps on my CPU _with an OC_, no bend and no issues whatsoever... The problem is you can find every problem on the internet, because there is always some fool(s) that can't build a rig and there are hordes of Youtubers that want viewers so they break things on purpose, or blend them... The PCB is fine and if you install a cooler properly, nothing can go wrong. What does happen a lot with noob builders is that they overtighten screws, and yes, if you do that, you will break stuff just like anything you overtighten. If you listen to everything you read or see, you'd never build a rig again 

About threads: you do have an 3570k - let me tell you this: if that was a 3770k, it would have been exactly as obsolete for your use case as your current CPU. I had the same one... it just chokes because it has only 4 physical cores and the platform + IPC is dated, its coupled with DDR3, etc.. HT does alleviate that a tiny bit, but not at the moments where you actually NEED the performance for a real-time application like gaming, because at those points, the core resources are saturated anyway.

What will happen is that your new 6 core rig will probably last just as long as your old Ivy Bridge one, which is a fair bit of time and 'future proofing' for longer will take a ridiculous investment with a very questionable payoff. You already HAVE the experience, you just don't seem to realize it. Every rig will last, and every rig will come to a point where its performance is no longer to your liking. Its very abstract, and its a waste to overspend on that idea.

- Storage, RAM and latency. Don't consider yourself smarter than a scheduler that has been refined over several decades because that's what this is. Data resides in the place where it is best to reside for that data. The page file has a purpose as it alleviates the system RAM not just by 'not filling it' but also by helping Windows in managing your data streams. Disabling it... there is literally zero evidence to support the claim that it improves performance. Similar with the NVME/SSD story: of course you want it fast, but the real world difference between the two cannot even be perceived unless you are moving extremely large chunks of data; ie entire projects of several GBs in size, on a daily basis, and within a time constraint. If you don't, NVME is a total waste.

- Write endurance: I have yet to see my Samsung _830 _from 2012 lose its 'Drive Health: Good' status... Every endurance test shows that SSDs massively exceed the endurance they put on the box. On the other hand, we know that NVME drives run hot. Really hot. And the long term data on endurance for those simply isn't there yet.

- About ingame performance and 'context switches' and all that other fluff. Another imaginary demon of yours. Your game performance tanks because resources on the single thread are exhausted. This is why games want the fastest possible core at the highest possible clock. All of the other cores are just 'chillin' on the additional game threads and background tasks. Over 25% CPU usage across a whole Quad core CPU is another way of saying 'one core is at 100% load'. And if you monitor your CPU loads per core, you will see this is what it really is. Go ahead 

- Thermal Paste: whatever. On Coffee Lake, all that really matters is proper application, the paste itself? Meh. Placebo. The problems in heat transfer are inside the IHS, not on top of it 


Bottom line: you can believe what you read on random google searches and your own (blatantly wrong) assumptions about performance, or you can take my word for it as someone who has had exactly the same old rig and new/planned rig  Its up to you.

@John Naylor made a very strong suggestion there: Scythe Mugen Max is a perfect allround cooler, that is not too bulky or heavy, for this CPU on a mild OC.


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## bug (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> Well back to the drawing board, that deal over at that site is done with; I can't get it. Now I don't know what to do. I read about this crap (#Bendgate) and I have my reservations about using beefy air cooling and why I'm so dead set on using liquid cooling.


I used to be weary of that too (for no particular reason, it didn't happen to anyone I know). But I didn't fix that by going water, I fixed that by shopping for coolers they weigh ~500g. Once upon a time on the super-heavy side, these things still exist today.


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

John Naylor said:


> Seasonic


I've been completely out of the loop for a long time, it's been five years since I've looked at new PC hardware so excuse my ignorance but... Who the hell is Seasonic? I've only really heard of the big names like Corsair, ThermalTake, and Cooler Master.


John Naylor said:


> Phanteks


Unfortunately the place where I plan on buying these parts at doesn't carry Phanteks cases. They only carry Corsair, NZXT, Cooler Master, Thermaltake, Inwin, Antec, Lian Li, EVGA, PowerSpec, SilverStone, BitFenix, Fractal Design, Zalman, and Logisys cases.


Vayra86 said:


> NVME is a total waste.


Damn near every system I've seen built by your average YouTube star (JaysTwoCents and Science Studio, just to name two) includes an NVMe SSD.


Vayra86 said:


> HT does alleviate that a tiny bit


The theory with Hyperthreading is that there's a very real possibility that whatever that particular core is doing not all of the computing power of said core is being used, Hyperthreading then takes what is generally "wasted computing power" and creates a virtual core out of what's left; at least that's the theory behind Hyperthreading in a nutshell.


Vayra86 said:


> Over 25% CPU usage across a whole Quad core CPU is another way of saying 'one core is at 100% load'. And if you monitor your CPU loads per core, you will see this is what it really is. Go ahead


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## bug (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> I've been completely out of the loop for a long time, it's been five years since I've looked at new PC hardware so excuse my ignorance but... Who the hell is Seasonic? I've only really heard of the big names like Corsair, ThermalTake, and Cooler Master.



Seasonic is only the OEM for the likes of Corsair, ThermalTake or Cooler Master (only Corsair uses them atm, afaik). They only have like best designs on the market. And being out of the loop for five years is no excuse, Seasonic is this good a lot longer than that


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## jboydgolfer (Apr 10, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> Coffee Lake runs hot *with or without* an AIO. Only custom water will really make a difference, and then ONLY if you also delid the CPU.



is that your personal experience? because (not to be argumentative), but simply to just point out its not a "fact" that applies to coffee lake as a whole, but rather a select group, just like with all model cpu's, there are hotter & cooler. if i were to apply my experience to all coffee lake cpu's in a broad statement, it would go like "coffee lake runs very cool ,and overclock's to 5Ghz with almost no adjustment, it can even be cooled with a stock intel 4690k CPU cooler for limited use". Obviously thats not everyones experience, so i wouldnt, but im just pointing out that saying Coffee lake runs hot, and to make it any cooler, one must delid is simply anecdotal, and untrue of the whole lineup. it would be like expecting because its 2pm for you, that it be the same for everybody across the world.



trparky said:


> Who the hell is Seasonic?



unless youve been out of the game since the 80's they were around when you were last in the game . they are arguably one of the best PSU makers around. the Seasonic Focus+ Gold/platinums are spectacular Power supplies, with 10 years warranty's, and amazing spec's. Ive bought 4 in the last several months.  EVGA G2's are great too, to name some good models, but not all.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Apr 10, 2018)

Okay...In general most of what they are saying about your Storage is correct.
Don't just look at the average R/W and assume it's good especially because of brand.
A EVO 960 does in every way do everything faster...You might not be able to perceive it....but it does..LOL
No a normal SSD isn't even giving you the performance of a WD Black NVMe gen 1 and those are dirt cheap...It might only be a second or two...but that's time you will never get back....and you only live for so long...just saying.
MSI or Asrock....mid grade. Z370
Microcenter has combo deals and more stuff in stock than they list online...
In February I got my mobo/cpu/960/mem/GFX for $1532 before tax.
If you go to microcenter you will have a personal shopping assistant...tell them your budget and what you want...they know all of their sales and combos...
So why not just go ahead and go to geek heaven and come home happy AF


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## Vayra86 (Apr 10, 2018)

jboydgolfer said:


> is that your personal experience? because (not to be argumentative), but simply to just point out its not a "fact" that applies to coffee lake as a whole, but rather a select group, just like with all model cpu's, there are hotter & cooler.



Well, this applies to the 8700K in particular, which is what he's aiming for, and what he wants to cool - and compared to a 3570k. With an OC you're looking at twice the TDP / heat to dissipate, and there is that issue of heat transfer on top. The point of my statement is mostly: the benefits of additional cooling are not going to be great, unless you also delid the CPU. A decent air or an AIO won't do much different.

As for the CPU usage thing, here's an ingame scenario typical of what I was pointing out

Note: 31% overall usage. 100% on one core. Two extra cores loaded with big game threads, and an even spread across all the others for background tasks. I could start another game and still enjoy maximum FPS on it... There is tons of headroom here even with a 6 core CPU - and this is without an FPS cap, so GPU limited.

Another thing of note is the I/O on my storage: zero. 5,6 GB / 16 GB RAM in use. This is running GW2 @ 4K internal res, Fast Sync uncapped. Meanwhile I'm here typing this post with several other browser tabs open, my rig is also home streaming some content to downstairs.






Now, let's fire up ANOTHER game without closing the first... Gonna load up a save from Stellaris. Lets see how it runs with a bit of CPU background activity?





And this is what task manager looks like now.. Guess I should have just taken 8 GB RAM... 

Anyway, all of this for some perspective on CPU performance/multitasking and system responsiveness. The performance would have been 100% equal on an 8600K, I never even remotely touched on 16GB of RAM, page file is in use and holding a whoppin' 10 GB (see Stellaris OSD: RAM, second number), and this is on regular SSDs.


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## jboydgolfer (Apr 10, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> Well, this applies to the 8700K in particular, which is what he's aiming for, and what he wants to cool -



yup, I'm aware he is looking to get the 8700, & i just wanted to clear up (for the OP's sake) that coffee lake cpu's arent particularly hot. Just so he doesnt get the idea in his head that if he wants to buy a 8700/8600 CPU, he must buy some super duper cooling system. Anything reputable will suffice, and handle that chip fine, and if he is going to do heavier overclocking (over 4.5Ghz), he will need to take the same precautions that every enthusiast has.

@trparky the only thing to keep in mind, is that you buy a realisticly sufficient cooler, rated properly for your intended usage, just like with any other purchase.


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

@Vayra86, that's assuming that games aren't going to become more multi-threaded which is patently false; believe me, they will. Games today may not be able to tax an 8600K but what about the figurative tomorrow?

@jboydgolfer, as far as overclocking is concerned I'm not looking for crazy overclocks here. If I can match the 4.4 GHz that I have with my Core i5 3570K I'll be very pleased.


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## Vayra86 (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> @Vayra86, that's assuming that games aren't going to become more multi-threaded which is patently false; believe me, they will. Games today may not be able to tax a 8600K but what about the figurative tomorrow?



They said this ten years ago but last time I checked, even DX12 games run a single, heavy thread because the simple fact is that gaming is sequential of nature and that will never change, you cannot split up every game related thread on a CPU, and FPS is always dependant on that weakest link.

And even IF games get multi threaded, you will have 6 cores. Note the number of 'Threads' running in task manager: 1783 of them. By your analogy my system must have slowed down to a crawl by now?

So I hope you don't mind, but no, I don't believe games will ever abandon the reality of a single heavy thread. Additional threading does happen, but as core counts go up, your absolute clock speed potential goes down, in other words: its irrelevant and the only thing vital for gaming is 'sufficient' number of cores coupled with the highest possible clock. I will agree that 4 physical cores is not sufficient any longer for the foreseeable future, but 6 is definitely the new 'quad' and it will take a LONG time before that reality changes.

Really bud, I recognize what you're saying and it is all the popular, half-informed nonsense I read everywhere on the net, and you came here for recommendations and I do hope also some common sense. Take it, and learn from it. Or take it from Youtubers 'that all run NVME' so 'it must be the thing to have'...

The information is there now, do what you like with it, I have little left to add


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> Note the number of 'Threads' running in task manager: 1783 of them.


And here I have about double that number (3,289 threads) and I'm not even pushing this system.


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## Vayra86 (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> And here I have about double that number (3,289 threads) and I'm not even pushing this system.



Well then you just confirmed everything I've told you.


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## jboydgolfer (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> If I can match the 4.4 GHz that I have with my Core i5 3570K I'll be very pleased.



I would consider a chip that only made it up to 4.4 GHz a very poor Intel CPU ,  meaning you'll have no problem reaching 4.4 GHz if I recall correctly it ClockZ itself the 4.3 GHz or at least my cpu does.

Just like with anything what you buy has to suit your needs. I have always bought 16 GB of RAM but due to the cost I only purchased 8 GB this time around, and it hasn't become a problem for me personally. Now maybe it will for you ,but the way I look at it is ,I can always turn around and buy another 8 GB ,and it'll be here in two days ,the only thing there is to lose is the money If it turns out i didnt need it or go through return process.  I just hope more users are doing what I have been doing and buying only what is required not what is wanted anything that can show manufacturers and retailers that these prices are 100% unacceptable. Not that it will likely change anything, but i can hope & hoping for better lower prices for all is not a bad thing


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> Well then you just confirmed everything I've told you.


What do you mean by that?

I'm saying that with my high number of threads it would be beneficial for me to get the i7 vs the i5 simply because of my higher thread load.


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## Vario (Apr 10, 2018)

Buy either i5 or i7, can't go wrong.  I don't think 12 threads is necessary and 6 is plenty.  But if you have the budget for the 8700K buy it.  If you do video compiling, it will be useful to have the threads.  If you don't, it probably won't matter.  Both i5 and i7 will be obsolete eventually.  Then you can buy another newer system and upgrade all over again.  I have seen upwards of 150 watt in Hwmonitor when running avx2 load and overclocked, so you will want a reasonable heatsink if you want to overclock.  If you are running stock, the 212 will be fine.  Could upgrade the fan on the 212 to get a bit more performance.

Arctic silver 5 works fine, I am using that right now and have good temps.  Thermal paste doesn't matter much.  But AS5 lasts a long time and is reliable compared to some other brands so I recommend that.


trparky said:


> But those big beefy coolers are killing Intel chips because of the thinner PCBs. Every Google search seems to say that most coolers are too heavy, they'll cause the processor to bend in the socket all because Intel cheaped out on the PCB thus killing the processor.



I think it was an issue for prebuilt machines being shipped with heatsink mounted.

I hope mine doesn't bend LOL look how massive my cooler is


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## Vayra86 (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> What do you mean by that?
> 
> I'm saying that with my high number of threads it would be beneficial for me to get the i7 vs the i5 simply because of my higher thread load.



More threads says nothing about the actual load, and the high thread number on your quad core is evidence that even 4 cores without HT is capable of 'dealing with it'.

If you want specific advice on your use case then detail it further: what applications do you typically run (simultaneously)? Its really simple, if you totally geek over the 12 thread CPU then get it. But you came here for recommendations, not a satisfaction of your imagination (correct?).

Another important argument to pick a 8600K over an 8700K for gaming is the *higher clock potential of the i5*, because it needs much less power to hit 5 Ghz and up, which will benefit the longevity of a gaming rig as much, if not more than HT. Its easier to keep within chilly temps with an OC as well, which is something you said you preferred as well...


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## trparky (Apr 10, 2018)

OK, like I said I'm a bit of a heavy multitasking person with a lot of programs open at the same time. I also tend to play with virtual machines as well. I have two monitors and I often have two Firefox windows open at the same time on separate monitors. I don't do video editing or anything heavy like that but I don't want a sluggish system either. I want the multitasking power when I need it.

Does this make any sense? I hope this helps.


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## Vayra86 (Apr 10, 2018)

trparky said:


> OK, like I said in a bit of a heavy multitasking person with a lot of programs open at the same time. I also tend to play with virtual machines as well. I have two monitors and I often have two Firefox windows open at the same time on separate monitors. I don't do video editing or anything heavy like that but I don't want a sluggish system either. I want the multitasking power when I need it.
> 
> Does this make any sense? I hope this helps.



Only for a VM would I then consider HT a *situational* benefit. 'Heavy multitasking' doesn't really say much, if by that you mean that you are doing several things at the same time then no, HT won't do a thing - not today and not in ten years. The real benefit from HT appears when you do very similar, simple, parallel tasks such as encoding/decoding.

This could be a good read:
https://virtualizationreview.com/articles/2016/12/08/should-you-use-hyperthreading-with-vmware.aspx

Bottom line: HT adds a layer of complexity to VM management and only if you manage it properly, can HT threads make a difference. Nevertheless, since HT never represents a true physical core, it introduces problems. Take note of the fact that this type of management applies to server and data center/enterprise environments which is hardly your typical use case


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## trparky (Apr 11, 2018)

So are you saying that a Core i7-8700K is a complete waste of money in my situation? Would you recommend me to possibly look at AMD?


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## Vayra86 (Apr 11, 2018)

trparky said:


> So are you saying that a Core i7-8700K is a complete waste of money in my situation? Would you recommend me to possibly look at AMD?



Yes I think you are overestimating what you'd ask of a system since you cannot point to specific applications where you lacked threads, and that you may want to put priorities elsewhere. For example, you are compromising on a GTX 1060 which is directly going to impact the gaming experience in a big way. If you were considering timely GPU upgrades (1-1,5 year down the road) then a 1060 will not hold its value all too well, while a 1070 or 1070ti/80 will almost certainly allow you to recoup more than half the price you buy it for. That tier of cards, being still under a 2 year warranty and taken good care of, can easily recover 70% of its value as a second hand. Think about it: GPUs get more powerful every gen by about 30% as well, but the lower tiers get obsolete because they lack the VRAM/bandwidth. This is how I usually 'trade up' in GPUs. Timely upgrades, stay current for relatively low cost.

Another possible option would be to spend part of the budget on a monitor (just putting it out there, no idea if it was in your mind at all). Or a nicer case, better case fans, a very silent rig... tons of ways to put the money to better use and benefit along the way.

Ryzen is another option, but only if you aim for 60 FPS. If you feel like you want 60-120 FPS at some point, its not a great option. Otherwise, in terms of future proofing and VMs 8 physical cores at similar price of an 8700K may be of greater benefit (Ryzen 7). Or you can go cost effective for Ryzen 5, but in that case I'd say the 8600K is a stronger build.

Keep in mind, a 'good' (cost effective, max performance for the use case within the budget) build means finding a good balance.


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## trparky (Apr 11, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> Ryzen is another option, but only if you aim for 60 FPS. If you feel like you want 60-120 FPS at some point, its not a great option. Otherwise, in terms of future proofing and VMs 8 physical cores at similar price of an 8700K may be of greater benefit (Ryzen 7). Or you can go cost effective for Ryzen 5, but in that case I'd say the 8600K is a stronger build.


There is the added benefit that I can do a drop-in replacement with a Ryzen 3000-series chip (Zen 2) in a year and get an instant upgrade.

As far as FPS is concerned, I'm limited by my monitor which is locked to 60Hz. I may plan on doing an upgrade but that's at least a two or three years away.


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## Vario (Apr 11, 2018)

Maybe current Ryzen lets you run 60 FPS now, but in a few years will that still be the case?


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## trparky (Apr 11, 2018)

Vario said:


> Maybe current Ryzen lets you run 60 FPS now, but in a few years will that still be the case?


Again, because AMD doesn't change sockets and chipsets every time the traffic light at the end of the road turns red like Intel does people have a real upgrade path; a simple drop-in replacement and you have an instant upgrade.


Spoiler: Intel Build



NZXT Phantom ATX Full-Tower Computer Case - White ($104.99)
G.Skill Aegis 16GB 2 x 8GB DDR4-3000 PC4-24000 CL16 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit ($169.99)
ASUS PRIME Z370-A LGA 1151 ATX Intel Motherboard (Bundle)
Intel Core i5-8600K Coffee Lake 3.6 GHz LGA 1151 Boxed Processor (Bundle) ($349.98)
EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 SuperClocked GAMING GDDR5 Video Card - Black Edition w/ ACX 3.0 Cooling ($539.99)
Samsung 860 EVO 500GB MLC V-NAND SATA III 6Gb/s 2.5" Internal Solid State Drive ($119.99)
Corsair CX650M 650 Watt 80 Plus Bronze ATX Modular Power Supply ($69.99)
Cooler Master Hyper 212X CPU Cooler ($44.99)
ASUS BC-12B1ST 16x DVDRW Burner/12x BD Reader Internal Drive ($59.99)

*Total Before Tax:* $1,459.91
*Total After Tax:* $1,576.70





Spoiler: AMD Ryzen 1600 Build



NZXT Phantom ATX Full-Tower Computer Case - White ($104.99)
G.Skill Aegis 16GB 2 x 8GB DDR4-3000 PC4-24000 CL16 Dual Channel Desktop Memory Kit ($169.99)
MSI B350M Gaming PRO AM4 mATX AMD Motherboard (Bundle)
AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6 Core AM4 Boxed Processor with Wraith Spire Cooler (Bundle) ($199.98)
EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 SuperClocked GAMING GDDR5 Video Card - Black Edition w/ ACX 3.0 Cooling ($539.99)
Samsung 860 EVO 500GB MLC V-NAND SATA III 6Gb/s 2.5" Internal Solid State Drive ($119.99)
Corsair CX650M 650 Watt 80 Plus Bronze ATX Modular Power Supply ($69.99)
ASUS BC-12B1ST 16x DVDRW Burner/12x BD Reader Internal Drive ($59.99)

*Total Before Tax:* $1,264.92
*Total After Tax:* $1,366.11


There's easily a $200 difference between the AMD and Intel build. Hopefully when the new AMD chips do come out in two weeks the prices for both the processor and motherboard stay close to the current bundle prices. If that's the case then I could save almost $200 going with AMD vs Intel. Then in a year when Zen 2 comes out I can get a Ryzen 3000 Series chip and do a drop-in upgrade and get an instant cheap upgrade with better performance. There's already talk that Ryzen 3000-Series (Zen 2) chips will be able to clock much closer to 5 GHz which should really close the performance gap between AMD and Intel.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Apr 11, 2018)

trparky said:


> Again, because AMD doesn't change sockets and chipsets every time the traffic light at the end of the road turns red like Intel does people have a real upgrade path; a simple drop-in replacement and you have an instant upgrade.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Intel Build
> ...


Both platforms have until ddr5... That's coming out next year... Get the best you can out of it since both are dead anyways.
You get 3 maybe 4 years either way
AMD used to gap platforms with dual memory controller...


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## trparky (Apr 11, 2018)

I thought DDR5 is another two years away from mass deployment.


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## R0H1T (Apr 11, 2018)

trparky said:


> I thought DDR5 is another two years away from mass deployment.


They have more than 2 years for *mass adoption*, also the prices of DDR4 are already through the roof now can you imagine the DDR5 prices at launch?


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## trparky (Apr 11, 2018)

R0H1T said:


> can you imagine the DDR5 prices at launch?


I'm suddenly having cold sweats thinking about that. I must stop.


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## Vayra86 (Apr 11, 2018)

trparky said:


> Again, because AMD doesn't change sockets and chipsets every time the traffic light at the end of the road turns red like Intel does people have a real upgrade path; a simple drop-in replacement and you have an instant upgrade.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Intel Build
> ...



Nice to see you're exploring these options and both of these builds are going to be very decent and for 60 FPS both are very much fine and I'd even have some trouble spotting the advantages of a 8600K build given the price gap. The only thing I have some reservations about is the MSI mobo on Ryzen - mostly for a lack of information and it being a very cheap one; and the Corsair CX PSU. The PSU is a good place to put some more budget towards so it can last several builds and still give confidence that it's reliable. You could also drop to 500-550W no problem and still have plenty of headroom.

(Rough calculation: GTX 1070 = 150-180W with OC, 8600K = 120 W with OC, leaves you 200W for the rest on 500W PSU)

About the drop in replacements: yes, its possible and a 'nice to have', whether it will be worthwhile in practice is a huge question mark. But Ryzen's main problem doesn't appear for you at 60hz for gaming, and it is a very strong CPU in all other tasks.


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## trparky (Apr 11, 2018)

Vayra86 said:


> About the drop in replacements: yes, its possible and a 'nice to have', whether it will be worthwhile in practice is a huge question mark.


But in a year it'll be a very cheap upgrade to do. I wouldn't at all mind doing it. Damn, the more I talk about this the more of a chance that I may actually go the Ryzen route instead of Intel.


Vayra86 said:


> You could also drop to 500-550W no problem and still have plenty of headroom.


The only issue I have is that I have about three or four SATA hard drives that I'm going to be cramming into this build when I get the parts home in addition to the hardware that I'm buying to build the system. To be honest I have no idea how much power a typical hard drive uses.

I've got a really old WDC Black 2TB, a WDC Red 2TB, and a WDC Green 3TB. These drives are primarily used as data dumps where I put data to be archived and backed up. I do nightly Macrium Reflect file backup of key files on the system SSD drive along with a weekly full system image every Sunday night. What can I say? I make sure that I have my backups!


Vayra86 said:


> The only thing I have some reservations about is the MSI mobo on Ryzen


Yeah... I've got some reservations too but when I go to Microcenter on the 23rd I'll be asking a lot of questions. So if I do go Ryzen I'll definitely be going with at least a *B450* as versus the current B350 board I have picked out now.


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## Vayra86 (Apr 11, 2018)

trparky said:


> But in a year it'll be a very cheap upgrade to do. I wouldn't at all mind doing it. Damn, the more I talk about this the more of a chance that I may actually go the Ryzen route instead of Intel.
> 
> The only issue I have is that I have about three or four SATA hard drives that I'm going to be cramming into this build when I get the parts home in addition to the hardware that I'm buying to build the system. To be honest I have no idea how much power a typical hard drive uses.
> 
> ...



I would say, ballpark, for the motherboard, storage and 5v/3.3v stuff you'd want about 150w tops, and that is again already taking into account some headroom on that too.

A single HDD should do around 20 watts, maybe 25 in some rare occasion. SATA SSD takes about 5-7w tops.

Do note I personally also oversize my PSUs a bit, like 20-30% over what I need, but the only reason for that is silent operation, noise is a pet peeve of mine, if I want to see if the rig's running, I'll look at it 

Regardless of what rig you end up with, I'm really glad I've been able to open you up to alternatives  Its easy to get lost in the tons of information you can read everywhere, and filtering it down to the necessary (and actually correct) things is hard.

As for the motherboard choice: I would strongly lean towards AsRock for Intel Z370 and I keep hearing good things about the AsRock offerings on Ryzen as well. They are very, very competitive and even the boards lower in the stack (mid tier such as Extreme4) carry very good VRMs, which is really the only differentiating factor besides the feature set you want for a board. Asus, is the safe choice, but the only pro I can find on their offerings is the state of software both in BIOS/UEFI and the stuff they bundle with a board, but the price is generally steep considering the featureset/VRMs. AsRock is more of a no-nonsense brand in that sense. MSI, really its hit or miss. So if you get an MSI board, read reviews and user experiences of it. Then there's Gigabyte, jack of all master of none really. Competitive in pricing, but comparably méh VRMs for the price point until you reach the highest end Gaming 7, which is really good.


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## trparky (Apr 11, 2018)

Another question... Bronze vs Gold. Everything I've read seems to point to the fact that you should stay away from anything less than Gold due to waste. Also I've read that the more you push your power supply closer to its designated output the more power you suck from the wall. I seem to remember power usage graphs that don't look very nice as you reach full load.

Or am I barking up the wrong tree here?


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## Vayra86 (Apr 11, 2018)

What matters is the make of the PSU, Bronze/Gold is just a sticker and like so many stickers, it doesn't tell all too much about quality. There are great Bronze PSUs too 

Go here to look up what the real brand is (and a wealth of other PSU info):
http://www.orionpsudb.com/

You'll want to get a Superflower or Seasonic. CWT also isn't too bad if price is a concern - but I will say I've had one CWT PSU (LEPA G650M) and it was noisy as hell (cheap fan).


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## Vario (Apr 11, 2018)

trparky said:


> Another question... Bronze vs Gold. Everything I've read seems to point to the fact that you should stay away from anything less than Gold due to waste. Also I've read that the more you push your power supply closer to its designated output the more power you suck from the wall. I seem to remember power usage graphs that don't look very nice as you reach full load.
> 
> Or am I barking up the wrong tree here?


I use a platinum because my case is so small.  Minimizing the waste heat generation is important for me.



trparky said:


> Again, because AMD doesn't change sockets and chipsets every time the traffic light at the end of the road turns red like Intel does people have a real upgrade path; a simple drop-in replacement and you have an instant upgrade.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Intel Build
> ...



The $200 difference? So you are pricing a mid range processor and midrange board against a low end processor and low end board.  You get what you pay for.  If you want to go cheap, then go cheap.  There is little likelihood of overclocking highly on that board and the wraith spire.  If you upgrade to a higher end sku Ryzen 2, wouldn't you want a better board for that?   Didn't you start this thread wanting to build an 8700K?  If you want to run  Ryzen 5 1600 gaming performance, just keep your Ivy Bridge.   If you wanted to really do a comparison, price with a cheapo B360 board such as the MSI B360M Pro-VH and a lower i5 sku such as an i5 8400.  Not to mention, you can get a 115X CPU cooler for a whole lot less than $45.


The AMD build requires more expensive DDR4 ram.  You did not include that, but you really want to run Samsung B Dies for AMD Ryzen.

I also disagree with the upgrade path argument of upgrading a processor and keeping the board.  When it comes time to upgrade the processor and go to a newer socket, just sell the board you have and buy a new one.  Frequently you can get back the entire purchase price of the board because people will pay a lot of money for a good condition used motherboard with box, manual, etc.  I sold my used 1155 board for around $160 in 2018, and I had bought it originally in 2012 for around $130.  If you have the money to buy the Ryzen 2, why not just buy a better processor in the first place.  It is sort of a silly issue.  A lot of people expect the Ryzen 2 to not be much better than Ryzen 1 anyway, it will be the same thing but with a higher clock speed.  If you want that, why buy Ryzen 1? Just wait for 2 and buy it then.  The upgrade path argument is dumb.


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## trparky (Apr 12, 2018)

I watched this video today because prior to watching this video I was very much still on the fence of what I was going to go with (AMD or Intel) when building my new system on April 23rd. That is until Steve, said this...


> As expected Intel is faster in games for the most part while AMD is faster for most of the heavy workloads; especially for the ones that we tested. With that being the situation, this is how I look at it. Even with a GTX-1080-Ti at just 1080p there's really no telling which CPU you're using when gaming. Both are exceptionally smooth and enable high frame rates, certainly high enough for your average gamer.


Well OK then, my decision making has been made a whole lot easier. I could save a whole lot of money (nearly $400) going with the AMD Ryzen chip and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I could then put the money saved into stepping up from the GTX1060 to the GTX1070 and still have roughly $200 to $250 still left in my wallet. *I call that a win!*


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## cucker tarlson (Apr 12, 2018)

This is all fine, I mean suit yourself, but is this really what convinced you ultimately? Someone else's subjective perception ?


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## trparky (Apr 12, 2018)

Ultimately you have to make your decision based upon what other people have said unless of course you personally know two people who have both types of rigs that are similar in hardware except for the processor. Sadly I personally don't know two people who have this kind of setup so I have to base my decision upon what other people have said.

I of course will still ask questions at Microcenter and see what they say but there's still the money saving aspect of going with AMD that is definitely nothing to sneeze at. Which of course I'll be able to take the money saved and put it into a better graphics card. I initially was going to go with the GTX1060 which people here were telling me was a mistake but the savings I could get with going the AMD route will easily allow me to buy a GTX1070 and still stay well within my budget window and quite possibly even keep some cash still in my wallet. Any money saved is going to help me in the long run which is always a good thing.

Look at this this way, I have a budget of $1850 but do I want to have to use every single dollar of that budget? No way! Only a fool would say that. Any person with an ounce of brains in his/her head will do what is necessary to save some cash where they can. That is, unless of course you're some kind of person who just has to have the best stuff possible just for the bragging rights which I am not that kind of person.


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## cucker tarlson (Apr 12, 2018)

If it's a question of i5 8400 and 1060 vs low-end 4c/8t Ryzen and 1070, then it's a no brainer. I'm just questioning going by someone's opinions, you absolutely do NOT have to make a decision based on people said. This reminds me of AMD's two system test in which they compared 1080Ti vs Vega 64 without revealing which one is which. If they had a 5% advantage over 1080Ti they'd toot every horn. You can tell the experience is going to be close by performance numbers, why hide them then ? Only explanation: to fool people.

You have an upgrade path for that AM4 system as well, for both cpu and ram, so I'm sure you chose correctly. I'm just curious what sort of amd setup it is that downgraded from 8400 and one of the new cheaper b360 boards allows you to buy 1070 over 1060.


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## trparky (Apr 12, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> If it's a question of i5 8400 and 1060 vs low-end 4c/8t Ryzen and 1070, then it's a no brainer.


I would be getting at least the Ryzen R5 chip, this I know. The motherboard and processor bundles at Microcenter look far more attractive from a price point of view on the AMD side than they do on the Intel side. Again, going the AMD side of things and pairing it with a GTX1070 is going to net me some savings and that's always a good thing.

Look, I'm not looking for the very best possible; just something that will be able to perform well without breaking the bank account. That's all I'm asking for. I have very much come to the conclusion that going with the Intel Core i7-8700K is, from a cost point of view, just not worth it. I unfortunately know people who brag about having the best stuff possible. A friend of mine has a GTX-1080-Ti and he always brags about how he has this high FPS or that high FPS number and there's times I've wanted to just tell him to shut the f**k up already. I get it, you have the money to get top notch hardware; stop rubbing it in my face already.


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## cucker tarlson (Apr 12, 2018)

Are those Vega + Ryzen + monitor deals still a thing ? They were pretty sweet.


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## Vayra86 (Apr 12, 2018)

trparky said:


> I would be getting at least the Ryzen R5 chip, this I know. The motherboard and processor bundles at Microcenter look far more attractive from a price point of view on the AMD side than they do on the Intel side. Again, going the AMD side of things and pairing it with a GTX1070 is going to net me some savings and that's always a good thing.
> 
> Look, I'm not looking for the very best possible; just something that will be able to perform well without breaking the bank account. That's all I'm asking for. I have very much come to the conclusion that going with the Intel Core i7-8700K is, from a cost point of view, just not worth it. I unfortunately know people who brag about having the best stuff possible. A friend of mine has a GTX-1080-Ti and he always brags about how he has this high FPS or that high FPS number and there's times I've wanted to just tell him to shut the f**k up already. I get it, you have the money to get top notch hardware; stop rubbing it in my face already.



I think Ryzen 5 is a sensible choice and it provides options should the CPU performance not be up to snuff at some point. The balance is right as well pairing it with a 1070, it makes for a great allrounder of a rig. For 60 FPS, most definitely the most cost effective route you can take. Its also the best way to rival that 1080ti 'experience' with a much smaller investment. Its not like the expensive card provides better images or something, it just pushes more frames and way above 60 at that. Frames you literally can't spot.

Then there is the trading up through selling a GPU I mentioned earlier. When the time comes and you want to get rid of that 1070, keep it in mind, invest a bit extra and get a recent x80 to replace it, then another 1,5 years down the line, that x80ti is within reach for a relatively small extra investment again. This also gives you the chance to experience multiple tiers of hardware without breaking the bank, and rubbing it into someone's face WITH the knowledge you didn't break the bank 

But maybe that's just a Dutch (stereotyped) thing; we have a saying: 'Voor een dubbeltje op de eerste rang' literally translates as 'Get the top spot for a penny'


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## trparky (Apr 12, 2018)

A lot of my thinking when I went into planning this build came from the fact that this friend of mine kept bragging about how his system is so great and that he was getting these almost god-like FPS numbers. To be honest I felt like I needed to one-up him just to shut him up already and cost be damned. Now that I've learned just how much I would have to spend to do just that I've realized that thinking that way was absolutely stupid of me. I let that green eyed monster known as envy cloud my judgement.


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## Vayra86 (Apr 13, 2018)

At work I have a 63 year old colleague who only plays Cities: Skylines on his quad SLI rig full of 1080ti's...

Really, yes really...  It hasn't even got proper support for it. Goes to show that no matter how big you go, there's always someone who can top it


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## Deleted member 67555 (Apr 13, 2018)

Not sure if you're still looking but I noticed this 
https://m.newegg.com/products/9SIADYY6YP8228?ignorebbr=1


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