# Weha need help to pick an amplifier >:o



## AnestisMania (Jan 11, 2017)

Helloooo there nice people thank you for stopping by to help me find a solution to my problem so ill get right into it... my 2 bar speakers are in a huge need of a amplifier and i have 2 kind of questions 

1) Could you help me find a nice amplifier with a good price not above 300 or so euro or dollars with bluetooth (IF possible)

and 

2) a friend of mine told me that when picking an amp its better to get one with half the needed wats (rms) power what im trying to say (example):My speakers are rated at 300 "rms music power" so its best to get an amp that gives me 150 wats per channel because according to him the speakers will "much better".

as far as i have see and read this would be false in many ways (Geek's will know)(and normal people that have knowledge in music ) 
but i just wanted to ask in case its true 

any way.. soo

What do i need the amp for... well even if it doesn't have bluetooth i want it to have a "good amount" of inputs and out puts since im going to add more speakers to the mix.. and see how it works out we are going for a 5.1 amp... or higher if the price and the features are good i dont know i just your help


at any rate if you have something good to suggest please do for now im just seeing my options thank you for your time 

(Speakers stats down at the image) (• ε •)


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 11, 2017)

AnestisMania said:


> 2) a friend of mine told me that when picking an amp its better to get one with half the needed wats (rms) power what im trying to say (example):My speakers are rated at 300 "rms music power" so its best to get an amp that gives me 150 wats per channel because according to him the speakers will "much better".



That's a bunch of malarkey. More speakers are actually damaged by using an *under*powered amp than overpowered. Why? Distortion. When you push an underpowered amp to get the volume you want, "clipping" in the amplifier output occurs which basically sends a destructive square wave to the speaker drivers. It really is hard to damage a speaker with too much power playing music, as long as you don't try to overdrive the speaker (play them louder than designed). So you can put a 1000W amp on a 150W speaker and enjoy them for years. A good amp does not care if it is never pushed near its limits.



AnestisMania said:


> What do i need the amp for... well even if it doesn't have bluetooth i want it to have a "good amount" of inputs and out puts since im going to add more speakers to the mix.. and see how it works out we are going for a 5.1 amp... or higher if the price and the features are good i dont know i just your help


Except you didn't say what you need it for. Listening to music? Watching movies with surround sound soundtracks? Computer gaming?

The efficiency of your speakers plays a huge role in amplifier you need. But I can find nothing about those speakers. And I have to admit, "sinus power" is something I have never heard of and can find nothing on that either. And "music power" is not an industry standard term also.

Understand when you say amp, that is just that, amplifiers. You still need a pre-amp to power the amp and the pre-amp also is used to connect a tuner, tape player, CD/DVD, turntable, etc.

Are you sure you don't mean a receiver? A receiver has the amplifiers, pre-amp and tuner built into one box. An AV Receiver is used to connect to a home theater system to switch in and out video sources too, like cable TV and Blu-Ray players.

Also, when you see 2.1, 5.1 or 7.1, the .1 typically stands for the subwoofer. And most subwoofers are self powered-they have their own amplifier built in. The "receiver" sends a "line level" (not amplified) signal to the subwoofer.

We need more information.


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## jboydgolfer (Jan 11, 2017)

@Bill_Bright 
i think you scared the OP away


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 11, 2017)

I replied just 7 minutes ago so that's too early to tell.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 11, 2017)

"Almost peed my pants" ◉_◉
#spooked 

Thank you for coming Mr.bill

So let me answer the questions one at a time

1st what do i need it for music mainly and only music  not planing for gaming movies or anything only musicaa 

2d Since im not an *english guy* as you saw from my gramar and my spelling yes i was talking about receivers 
im just not familiar what is the right term to call them amp's or receivers ..
soo yeah receiver is what we are going for...

(Side note: Sinus power=Rms its a "German word" for older models because Rms is too mainstream for them and they want to make our lifes harder xd..?

38th Also about the number of chanels "5.1" i have another small system witch has a sub and some other small speakers on it.. and i want to hook them up all together (at least that's my plan)

ALSO!!.. Thank you Mr.bill for your help to another topic wayy back at 2016 about pa speakers i made my pick and it was the sony model at the end

Ill be waiting for your replay if you need more information let me know 

and as always Arigato* (thank you at japanise) (• ε •)


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## AnestisMania (Jan 11, 2017)

jboydgolfer said:


> @Bill_Bright
> i think you scared the OP away



Plz halp im scared >.<


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## nomdeplume (Jan 11, 2017)

Does it need to be new or are you willing to consider better quality and used?


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## Vario (Jan 11, 2017)

The speaker pulls power from the amp.  If the amp doesn't have enough power it clips the signal resulting in the voice coil being stressed, overheated, and damaged.  You want an amp that has adequate power.  Good brands to look at are Yamaha and Onkyo.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 11, 2017)

Vario said:


> The speaker pulls power from the amp.  If the amp doesn't have enough power it clips the signal resulting in the voice coil being stressed, overheated, and damaged.  You want an amp that has adequate power.  Good brands to look at are Yamaha and Onkyo.



Hmmm yeah yamaha and pioneer is the ones ill look for but i dont know about other brands when it comes to good i wouldn't trust a brand like onkyo... now that you said it ill give it a look.. thank you...


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 11, 2017)

AnestisMania said:


> 38th Also about the number of chanels "5.1" i have another small system witch has a sub and some other small speakers on it.. and i want to hook them up all together (at least that's my plan)


That may or may not be possible. Many small systems are designed to work only within the system they came with.

I like Onkyo - that's what I use now. Denon is another brand to look for. Sony and Yamaha have some good offerings too. 



Vario said:


> The speaker pulls power from the amp.


Ummm, not really. It accepts it.


Vario said:


> If the amp doesn't have enough power it clips the signal


No, it doesn't work that way either. The output of an amplifier is based on the input level to that amp. So when you turn the "gain" up on the preamp, a larger input signal is delivered to the amplifier and the amplifier increases its output in a direct coloration to that input.

The load (impedance) of the speaker affects the wattage out of the amp, but the speaker does not pull power. It accepts it - hopefully gracefully.

A 10,000 watt amplifier can be over driven into clipping if the input is too high. It does not matter if the "load" (the speakers) can handle it or not. If your speakers are 1000W speakers and you drive a 100W amp into clipping, the resulting distorted near square wave signal sent to that speaker can still damage the speaker. That is because the distorted waveform is a waveform the speaker drivers are not designed to reproduce.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 11, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> I like Onkyo - that's what I use now. Denon is another brand to look for. Sony and Yamaha have some good offerings too.



Hmm i see well at any rate ill see what i can find Denon and onkyo is too expencive for my gusta xd
 oh also i found a Marantz nr1602 7.1 with a nice price used... how about it :? any ideas for the brand?

also question when im saying im going to hook up some other speakers what do i mean...

those speakers have some outputs that can be used to transfer the sound to some other speakers (Note: every speaker has its own power)(how i use my setup so far i use the sony outputs with an rca to jack 3.5 to play it with my hifi) so my idea is i cant use the same thing to my receiver use it's outputs or inputs to just transfer the sound to my other components (im sure what im trying to do is not good but meh... IN THE NAME OF SIENCE) 

well if that's not possible ill just use the reciver as a stand alone


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## AnestisMania (Jan 11, 2017)

i hope mr.bill didnt sleep >
xD i need answers over here


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## AsRock (Jan 11, 2017)

Do you require HDMI connections and\or RCA connections ?.  If you don't require HDMI you can get a real good amp for under $100 with tons of RCA connections.

Not much for ONKYO personally they sound some what flat for my taste but typically come with more options \ features than the others for the same price.  In fact a older ONKYO 608  you could probably get for about $130-$140 second hand.

Others i would look in to are Marantz ( not the slim bs ), NAD, Yamaha ( even a 475 should be enough, although might lack the RCA connections your after, DENON and ROTEL.

I hope your not expecting too much from that speaker, brand speakers typically suck.  I known Panasonic to do some good ones in the passed but typically sub par and SONY have a habit of making ones that look like there better more pricey ones too but still are not good how ever gotta start some were.

I would have a look around for some online reviews more so in forums ( like http://www.avforum.com/forum/index.php) one the unit you your on about.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 11, 2017)

AsRock said:


> Do you require HDMI connections and\or RCA connections ?. If you don't require HDMI you can get a real good amp for under $100 with tons of RCA connections.



Well im not planing to play use the amplifier for any thing else that music since i have a dvd player i will hook it up there.. it sure would be nice to have HDMI but even if it doesn't i dont mind... tell me more

But at any rate i dont want something cheap i want something that will get the job done and have a good quality is not about money is about to spend my penny's where they count


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## AsRock (Jan 12, 2017)

Well older higher models drop in price, for example you can get a newish Yamaha RX-v475 secondhand for about $100 $150 which with have only a few RCA connections but 5 HDMI connections and blutooth,

Or if you can deal with not having HDMI and possibly blutooth you can get a old High model Rotel for the same money.

And if your good with electronic maybe this guy would ship and not cost to much if you live in the US http://www.ebay.com/itm/Onkyo-TX-SR...861841?hash=item237af6fb11:g:LAwAAOSw2xRYcP0V

And if you like it pick another up with a different issue and just swap the HDMI board out but that's just me lol.

ONKYO, Yamaha and SONY are going have more options at more reasonable price, ONKYO more so.

Good sound is in the ear of the beholder, over the years i found that Yamaha are the more natural sound just like they advertise and to me sound a bit more uplifting than say ONKYO,  Marantz being brighter sounding and typically more open.

Whats the DVD player may i ask ?.

And as Bill said better to have a amp that has more power than the speakers than the other way around.

And i would not be surprised if that speaker clips too not due to under powering but though to much movement.  Last pair of SONY's i had were rated 100w but could not take 30w RMS but this will depend on music you like too.

So were you from ? ( Germany ? ).
Whats the budget ?
What size room you have ?

To keep it simple and you think the Yamaha RX-V475 has enough connectors on it for you go for it, you could even go the 375 but you would loose the blutooth option but both have RCA connections and had HDMI connections. Keep in mind SONY and ONKYO, the latter typically features v's cost.

Check ebay for your region see if you can get a good secondhand one for about $100


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 12, 2017)

Your electronics should sound "flat" BTW. That is, they should not introduce any enhancements on their own. They should just amplify what is inputted to them. If your room's acoustics absorb too much high end or boom too much bass, you use an equalizer to "flatten" it out again - assuming you want the "faithful" reproduction of the original recording. This is actually where lots of power can help. A flat response at the low end takes a lot of power reproduce.

A quick Google search would show Onkyo is consistently among the best. Of course, with so many models in their lineup, and so many other brands to choose from, no one brand is on the top of the heap in every price range. But if I were buying today, I would probably start by looking at Denon first.

The fact of the matter is, with most audio content being digital these days, tonal qualities of the better products vary little. In fact, most people cannot hear the difference especially as they age. The frequency response of human hearing, sadly, begins to degrade significantly in our early 20s, and goes downhill from there.

This will be interesting (and disappointing) to most here.


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## AsRock (Jan 12, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> Your electronics should sound "flat" BTW. That is, they should not introduce any enhancements on their own. They should just amplify what is inputted to them. If your room's acoustics absorb too much high end or boom too much bass, you use an equalizer to "flatten" it out again - assuming you want the "faithful" reproduction of the original recording. This is actually where lots of power can help. A flat response at the low end takes a lot of power reproduce.
> 
> A quick Google search would show Onkyo is consistently among the best. Of course, with so many models in their lineup, and so many other brands to choose from, no one brand is on the top of the heap in every price range. But if I were buying today, I would probably start by looking at Denon first.
> 
> ...



They should sound flat ?, no they should sound as intended as who ever made it.  I was not trying to say flat is bad it just not my liking as to me it's boring.

I don't care what Google says lol, it's all a matter of preference which i know you know. Because more people supposedly buy ONKYO don't mean in anyway they are better never mind better for who ever is looking in to getting a receiver.

Reason i did recommend a ONKYO is they are good starting receiver with typically more features per dollar hence why i have own 5 over the time in the US, NAD being one of my favorites although would not recommend one to anyone more so new to this stuff as they don't last in my experience but the sound quality is real nice..


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## WhiteNoise (Jan 13, 2017)

I prefer a flat response as well when using quality equipment this works best for me. But on some lesser quality equipment I have found that EQing is needed to get the best sound. 

Onkyo is great. I bought the SR605 back when it first released and though it has been replaced recently with a Denon; the Onkyo still works just as good now as the day i bought it. Fantastic budget receiver. I have always loved Onkyo for providing tons of features at a lower cost but with the durability that Onkyo has always been known for. I do admit my denon beats it in every way but it is much newer. My HK 3490 is about the best home stereo amp I have owned. That thing is a beast.


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## AsRock (Jan 13, 2017)

WhiteNoise said:


> I prefer a flat response as well when using quality equipment this works best for me. But on some lesser quality equipment I have found that EQing is needed to get the best sound.
> 
> Onkyo is great. I bought the SR605 back when it first released and though it has been replaced recently with a Denon; the Onkyo still works just as good now as the day i bought it. Fantastic budget receiver. I have always loved Onkyo for providing tons of features at a lower cost but with the durability that Onkyo has always been known for. I do admit my denon beats it in every way but it is much newer. My HK 3490 is about the best home stereo amp I have owned. That thing is a beast.



Don't get me wrong The Yamaha sound is flat but has a bit more energy dramatic range in the mid\highs i find. Gotta to remember this all depend on what you like and speakers you enjoy as i don't like metal tweeter's always find them a little harsh and like the soft dome but that's just me.

Used to keep a laptop on top of my ONKYO 608 as it got frigging hot as hell i even put heatsinks on the HDMI board as temps were hitting 70c+ range. In fact if the HDMI board is not on the top of the unit i will not even buy it as it is a hot part of a receiver.

I am hoping to try out a few more receivers by end of the year including Denon which i am sure as good as they were back in the 90's. Would like to try out a ROTEL too again but dam they are costly .


I used to mess with equalizer's but over time they are just annoying and living were i do there isn't a bunch of HI FI shops around here, Realistic did a good one ( TANDY ) but a lot just add a terrible tone to the sound.

The HK 3490 got a link to it ?.


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## WhiteNoise (Jan 13, 2017)

I haven't owned a standalone EQ in many years. Back then I used them all the time because I preferred the V shaped sound but as I got older and had more money to spend I realized that I preferred listening to my music the way it was intended. I have always believed that running flat will provide the sound as it was intended considering a lot of music is EQ'd when recorded. With good amps I have not even wanted an EQ. For me if I want to change the sound of my music I use one of my tube amps or I swap around my headphones. Doing this has provided that certain sound that I enjoy or that sound I'm in a mood for.

The HK3490 is not made any longer but here is some info: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_532HK3490/Harman-Kardon-HK-3490.html


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

AsRock said:


> So were you from ? ( Germany ? ).
> Whats the budget ?
> What size room you have ?



Ok lets see Germany hardly  im from greece
budget *-* lets not go above 300 euros but i want to stay as low as possible.. but if i want something good i dont think lower than 300 euros will work]
size... hmmm lets talk about a small one ehhh 

<-80ft-> or so by 100ft

but i since im new i dont mind if the vocals-eq-room size will effect the sound...
sure i want clean and nice sound but for now im looking what are my options
and how i can use my speakers the best i can


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## AsRock (Jan 13, 2017)

Of course Harman & Kardon,  actually a brand i have never tried, how consistent are they with their sound though models ?, for example Yamaha always aim for a natural sound.

And always wanted to try a good valve amp but with my music range i been recommended not too and my mood for music changes day to day so be a load of messing about.  And no space to have 2 systems setup sadly.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

Also guys question some recievers have on the back 
4-16 ohms
8-16 ohms

Ehh mine as you saw are 4-8 that means my speakers wont be good for that input of the reciever
or just the reciever will feed them more (sound-power) and damage them ?

halp


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

*also found a 
ΟΝΚΥΟ ΤΧ-DS656 for 100 euros OLE
is dis good tho *


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## Sasqui (Jan 13, 2017)

nomdeplume said:


> Does it need to be new or are you willing to consider better quality and used?



My first thought as well.  Go find a Realistic tuner/amp from the 70's or 80's.  I have one from the 60's, some home made speakers  and it's the best sound of anything I've got.  The tuner is fantastic too.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

Well in genearal im looking into old recivers so i dont mind


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## AsRock (Jan 13, 2017)

Well as others have said and my self ONKYO is a decent brand, other to keep a eye open for are Yamaha, SONY, Denon all produce a clean sound.

Then it's about options offered by brand and if your willing to buy second hand.  Then how important having blutooth \\HDMI are to you.

Huh ?,what this for a basketball court .
<-80ft-> or so by 100ft


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

AsRock said:


> Then how important having blutooth \\HDMI are to you.



The bluetooth can be added with an external adapter see here (LOGITECH Bluetooth Audio Adapter)


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## Sasqui (Jan 13, 2017)

AnestisMania said:


> Well in genearal im looking into old recivers so i dont mind



If it's for music only, you won't regret it, nor your wallet 



AnestisMania said:


> The bluetooth can be added with an external adapter see here (LOGITECH Bluetooth Audio Adapter)



I have that and it's quite good!


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

Sasqui said:


> If it's for music only, you won't regret it, nor your wallet



bring it "grabs some pills just in case"


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## AsRock (Jan 13, 2017)

You can get some near \ top models with 300$, well i can here if you don't need the blutooth and HDMI for sure.  I don't know the pricing were you are,  you know some of the models to look for and it's about find and research .

Like if i had the money my self i be bidding on this Rotel 1056, well if i did not require HDMI that is .  But you need one that's usable in your country so you can just plug it in.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

AsRock said:


> Like if i had the money my self i be bidding on this Rotel 1056



**Opens google types "Rotel 1056" *opens images* *

So...many...i...in...inputs......

*Dies from heart attack**


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

**Now looks for prices*....

*Dies right away at heaven**


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## AsRock (Jan 13, 2017)

AnestisMania said:


> **Now looks for prices*....
> 
> *Dies right away at heaven**



That's my point time to search for those brands your self, in the US we have on up for bids starting at $150 and sell around $250-$300$, how much ones available were you are i have no idea.

As you don't need surround sound and all that and not to bothered about HDMI why not just get a Amplifier, options get even bigger then.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

Mr asrock can i ask...

what if i get a system like this...

throw the speakers that is has or use them somewhere else and use that...

im jumping into hifi systems now


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## Sasqui (Jan 13, 2017)

AnestisMania said:


> bring it "grabs some pills just in case"



Where are you located?  I was looking at Craigslist here in NH (US), and the Realistic STA-75 / 76 / 78 can be had for under $100.  Really, really nice receiver for the coin.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

Sasqui said:


> Where are you located?



Ill check them out but since im at greece.. is going to be hard... ehhh at any case ill look them out but the traveling taxes and shiping is not going to worth it...

thank you tho ill try to find them close to my playce


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 13, 2017)

AsRock said:


> They should sound flat ?, no they should sound as intended as who ever made it


 You ignored my next two sentences.

I said, "_That is, they should not introduce any enhancements on their own. They should just amplify what is inputted to them.". _That can only happen if they have a flat, undistorted output. Now where the big differences come in is with the electromechanical part of the equation - the speakers, and environment (room) they are played in. But again, the electronics should be flat and only altered (with a frequency equalizer) to compensate for speaker deficiencies and room acoustics.

And FTR, while I own and like Onkyo. I am no fanboy for them. As I noted, I will probably look first at Denon when I buy again. And my very first real high end stereo system consisted of a  dual monoblock Marantz power amp powered by a Dynaco PAT-4a preamp which I built!   And they were used to drive a beautiful (sound wise) set of Acoustic Research AR-3a speaker systems - which I still have and hopefully will restore this year.

I have also owned an stereo Harman Kardon receiver back in the day which I really liked. My first 5.1 system was a Yamaha but it did not support HDMI. My current Onkyo does support HDMI.

One thing I really like about my Onkyo is the speaker calibration feature, Audyssey EQ. The receiver comes with a calibrated microphone you place where your head will be when listening. Start the process and the program calibrates the frequency response and output levels for each of the 6 or 8 (5.1 or 7.1) connected speakers. I have a nice SPL (sound pressure meter) I used for other sound system setups and I was surprised how accurate the Onkyo calibration was. It very effectively compensated for my living room which has heavy curtains on one side and opens into the dining room on the other. And the right rear is a solid wall while the left rear opens to a hallway. It really balanced the sound with the press of one button on the remote. Nice. I assume some of the better offerings from other makers offer a similar feature - but I will sure ensure the next receiver I buy does too.

For sure, Athens, as a big metropolitan city, will have high-end audio stores that sell better quality home entertainment electronics with trained people who can really tell you what's available.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

Ehh Mr bill since you are here can you help me with one more thing i was talking about ohms
in my case my speakers say 4-8
so if the reciever says
4-16 ohms
8-16 ohms

means my speakers wont be good for that input of the reciever
or just the reciever will feed them more (sound-power) and damage them?

or in general what impact ohms have at my speakers or my listening

thank you >:I


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 13, 2017)

AnestisMania said:


> my speakers say 4-16


Yeah, see that makes no sense either - at least for your speakers. While speakers don't present a constant load on amps, they typically are rated with just one impedance value, normally 8Ω or 4Ω. Not 4 - 16Ω.

It is really when using multiple speakers on the same amplifier channel that you need to worry about the impedance - at least with normal speakers designed for such use. This is because the basic formula when you put two equal loads in parallel is the total impedance is cut in half.

So if you put two 8Ω speakers in parallel, the amplifier will see a 4Ω load. Now this is where Ohm's law comes in. Ohms law says I = E/R. That is, current equals voltage divided by resistance.

So, assuming voltage remains the same, if you drop the resistance, current goes up. And when current goes up in a circuit, so too does heat! See the last line in my signature.

So the bigger problem when placing speakers in parallel is not damaging your speakers, it is burning up your amp.

Clear as mud, huh?

If you only put one speaker on each speaker output, you will be okay.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

4-8 Pff my bad...


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## Sasqui (Jan 13, 2017)

AnestisMania said:


> Ehh Mr bill since you are here can you help me with one more thing i was talking about ohms
> in my case my speakers say 4-16
> so if the reciever says
> 4-16 ohms
> ...



If you have some time, look up "Impedance Matching"  ...the internal resistance of the amplifier should match the internal resistance of the speakers.  It mainly affects the efficiency at which the power from the amplifier is converted to sound in the speaker.  I do believe that it may affect sound quality to some degree, but not much.

Most amplifiers will be fine with 4-8 ohms. 8-16 ohms is rare.

Edit:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

*So to sum it up..

Thank you all of you for taking some of your time to help my lazy-busy booty out

every single replay had its own help i hope some day i will be able to help your the same way...

I found more or less for what im going for so you helped me a lot 

Thank you

Sasqui
Bill_bright
AsRock
Jboydgolfer
nomdeplume
vario
whitenoise *please go away >:}*

and the gost lady under my bed 

Have a nice day people *


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## AsRock (Jan 13, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> *You ignored my next two sentences.*
> 
> I said, "_That is, they should not introduce any enhancements on their own. They should just amplify what is inputted to them.". _That can only happen if they have a flat, undistorted output. Now where the big differences come in is with the electromechanical part of the equation - the speakers, and environment (room) they are played in. But again, the electronics should be flat and only altered (with a frequency equalizer) to compensate for speaker deficiencies and room acoustics.
> 
> ...



Yeah sorry about that .

Yeah Audyssey is pretty good but a few have it now or some version of the same thing using a mic including Yamaha.



AnestisMania said:


> Mr asrock can i ask...
> 
> what if i get a system like this...
> 
> ...



Would not touch them even with a pole, suggest you not to if your thinking of getting in to HiFi. And the speakers to it will be crap.  But then again i knew some one who used to like maximum treble with very high mid-range.  

If you really thinking of getting some thing like that you should go some shops that sell them.  I can only speak what i think of them but i could tell you to that my mother would be happy with it, depends what your expecting from it.

But personally hell no, they sound no were near as good but that's preference.

As you only require a 2 speaker system a normal amplifier some secondhand speakers you should be able to get for $300.

Whats the ebay link, like in the US it's .com and the UK it's .co.uk.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 13, 2017)

Sasqui said:


> I do believe that it may affect sound quality to some degree, but not much.


If the amp is designed to operate at 4Ω, it should not affect quality. In fact, because current will increase, there will actually be more wattage available which may actually help quality, at least in the low end. But that depends on the efficiency of the speakers more than anything else.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 13, 2017)

People tomorrow Ill make a list with the receivers that i have in mind to get so ill need you for 1 last time untill then good night!


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## Sasqui (Jan 13, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> If the amp is designed to operate at 4Ω, it should not affect quality. In fact, because current will increase, there will actually be more wattage available which may actually help quality, at least in the low end. But that depends on the efficiency of the speakers more than anything else.



I don't think it's that simple.  Internal resistance matching (Impedance matching) concept itself is pretty simple, but there are other side effects when they are not matched, such as signal reflection.  One side effect is distortion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_reflection


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 13, 2017)

You are talking apples and oranges. I am talking about 4Ω speakers and amplifiers designed to power 4Ω speakers. You are talking about "cheap" or damaged speaker cables. Note your reference makes not one mention of speakers or speaker impedance! But it clearly states signal reflection "_happens because imperfections in the cable cause impedance mismatches and non-linear changes in the cable characteristics_."

Yes, quality cables and quality connections (and cable length) will change the characteristics of the load seen by the amplifiers, so for sure, "investing" is quality speaker cables of the proper gauge is important. But the OP's question was about his speakers and how they will work with his amp. Not wires.


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## WhiteNoise (Jan 13, 2017)

AsRock said:


> You can get some near \ top models with 300$, well i can here if you don't need the blutooth and HDMI for sure.  I don't know the pricing were you are,  you know some of the models to look for and it's about find and research .
> 
> Like if i had the money my self i be bidding on this Rotel 1056, well if i did not require HDMI that is .  But you need one that's usable in your country so you can just plug it in.



I own a Rotel RDV 1092 (DVD/CD player) and though it cost me a lot of money it was worth every penny. I have always been tempted to buy a matching Rotel amp and preamp but I have so much audio equipment I really don't know what I'd do with it.


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## revin (Jan 14, 2017)

I agree about second hand deals. There are some very good deals for just sound output equipment especially on the eBay.{ ie receiver's with out HDMI]
I picked up my VSX39 TX a [$2500 Top of Line new] a few years ago for $425. In fact my remote for it runs over $200 usually $300+. Just this week seen some less than 1/2 that. In fact 1 is $165 but pick up only about 320mi from me.
I'm very tempted to get it since we will be going there to see our daughter.
So if there is some chance that eBay where you are has some it my well be worth it.
I was astonished with the quality of this unit. It will play maxed out[+12] with all 4 Pioneer CS9900 and as well with my 4 Polk 75t  2 years old now.
Best of all is with my studio monitor set of Infinity RSe's they are 4ohm speakers, and I don't try to "blast" them to those extreme sound levels, they are more for critical type listening and do they ever shine ! My previous[Mid level] older VX4800 and a Marantz just didn't really cut it. Both Pioneer's are close in output, but it's a whole different game when moving towards Loud volume's. That's where quality older units show a difference. None have changed the tonal sound but the 39TX sound is way more defined. 
To test the output of the unit I did run both of the big 8ohm speakers in parallel[4ohm], and sure enough it will trip at high volumes, but just running on both sets on A,B takes care of it. The sound level was pretty much the same, just used up the output rating of the unit at a lower setting[+8]. Again the sound level was very loud, almost too much, but not like when getting into High end like say Crown, Sunfire Studer-Revox Rotel ect. those super priced units. Again this older unit is capable of very high sound levels!



Bill_Bright said:


> If the amp is designed to operate at 4Ω, it should not affect quality. In fact, because current will increase, there will actually be more wattage available which may actually help quality, at least in the low end. But that depends on the efficiency of the speakers more than anything else.


  Very true as I experimented 

So tldr: older stuff can be great cost savings if you just want the basic functions. With plenty of digital inputs I didn't care a bit about using on screen or video switching. Just label what ever input I need to use for sound and bingo.
Also just like they're saying, about 4 and 8 ohm loads, good unit's will be able to cope with the load and you'll never notice and can get a great start into Hi-fi sound.

Now if you just want loud sound, you could get a pretty cheap [Sony DTS550 is what's in almost all Wal-Mart stores $198] receiver that may give you enough of what you'd want. They make these new models "look good on paper" so it's almost a crap shoot with what you really end up with on entry level units.


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## Sasqui (Jan 14, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> You are talking about "cheap" or damaged speaker cables.



Wrong.  It's about matching impedance of the amplifier and speakers.  No mention of wires, no idea how you got that.


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## AsRock (Jan 14, 2017)

WhiteNoise said:


> I own a Rotel RDV 1092 (DVD/CD player) and though it cost me a lot of money it was worth every penny. I have always been tempted to buy a matching Rotel amp and preamp but I have so much audio equipment I really don't know what I'd do with it.



Would like to as well maybe in a few months although the pre amp part will have to wait as a Rotel with HDMI isn't cheap, will have to see.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 14, 2017)

*So people this is it...

i have picked more or less the receivers im interested in soo here they are 

PIONEER VSX-424-K
Yamaha R-S202 
Yamaha HTR-2067
VSX-330-K
Pioneer SX-20-K
YAMAHA RX-V381 

So this is my list i will put info too if you want 
but please look em up and tell me what you think ":3 thank you again
*


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## JayCan73 (Jan 14, 2017)

I've used a Yamaha RXV-373 over HDMI with my computer for the last 5 or 6 years and it's been perfect for movies music and gaming, my pc's audio quality limits it's potential some compared to bluray and cd sources but that's not the receivers fault,  I like how the Yamahas are capable of using 6 and 8 ohm speakers, you will need to make sure any surround and center speakers you choose perform similarly to the ones you have already because the imbalance can be quite noticable. I find the sound to be more natural than the similarly priced pioneer I used previously which I found unnecessarily bassy.


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## AsRock (Jan 14, 2017)

JayCan73 said:


> I've used a Yamaha RXV-373 over HDMI with my computer for the last 5 or 6 years and it's been perfect for movies music and gaming, my pc's audio quality limits it's potential some compared to bluray and cd sources but that's not the receivers fault,  I like how the Yamahas are capable of using 6 and 8 ohm speakers, you will need to make sure any surround and center speakers you choose perform similarly to the ones you have already because the imbalance can be quite noticable. I find the sound to be more natural than the similarly priced pioneer I used previously which I found unnecessarily bassy.



Typo 6-8Ohms ?, last time i looked it was 4-8Ohm, but yeah been no issue for me either,  regardless of what you or i think sounds better and if he thinks he might use HDMI \ blutooth in the some time future i think the Yamaha RX-V381 which is all so HDCP 2.2 as well,a lot are not and have compatibility issue's with the ROKU4 Amazon units.

Of course this is way more than he's wanting but it's more future proof.

As for the Yamaha HTR-2067, it's old unit and should give you what your after now.

As for pioneer i was thinking of getting one of their units some time ago but what put me off was the problems people were having with the censors how ever this could of been fixed by now.  Personal experience with them is low and none existent since i moved tot he US some 15 years ago when i used to find them bright.

Personally if you be happy for a good while with the HTR-2067 which i hope you can get cheap being a old model would allow you to get some real speakers.  I was just looking on ebay and believe one could be had for about $50-$60 were as getting the V381 one would take a big chuck of what you have to spend. But i am just going by what i am seeing on ebay and that be $60 for a HTR-5550 which is higher up than what your seeing.

The Yamaha R-S202 seems kinda crappy, well except those looks but think better can be had with a older model.

Either way the Pioneer or Yamaha should not have issue's driving Eltax speakers although there is better but i guess you could put that to preference.


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## JayCan73 (Jan 14, 2017)

I think the speaker resistance settings might differ between north american and european models on the same edition receivers, mine only lets you select 6 or 8 ohm impedance. What i like about the newer yamahas is all the decoding options. Mine was $250 new Canadian when I bought it which is pretty low end but I would have had to spend alot more to get noticably better performance. A used rxv 371, 373 or 375(same but different input options) is worth looking for as it's 5.1 like you were looking for and could be cheaper than the rxv 381 which is 7.1 or 7.2 I think?


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## AnestisMania (Jan 14, 2017)

I dont know im a bit frustrated... there are a lot of things to keep in mind with speakers but
i think ill go with yamaha  RX-V381
I was going to go with Pionner VSX-424 but since its rated to 6omhs i dont think is going to cut it... pff

picking receivers is hard ill do some more research and see what i can find...

They dont have any outputs that i wanted but meh.. its fine

oh and btw what do you think about Denon pma-520


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## AsRock (Jan 14, 2017)

Your right, it's 6-8 here too. although i knew the Yamaha's excepted it to some degree.  I must of been thinking of the ONKYO 608 i used to have.  But anyway it will support 4Ohm speakers but only on the front 2 channels.
http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article...10654/7608/?current_page_id=1&sort=best&type=



> 371, 373 or 375



Yes he could of missed those too. as for the 381 it just a replacement model of those so it's 5.1.



AnestisMania said:


> I dont know im a bit frustrated... there are a lot of things to keep in mind with speakers but
> i think ill go with yamaha  RX-V381
> I was going to go with Pionner VSX-424 but since its rated to 6omhs i dont think is going to cut it... pff
> 
> ...



The Pioneer support 6-8Ohm's going by the data sheet
http://www.pioneer-audiovisual.eu/sites/default/files/datasheets/english/VSX-424.pdf

http://www.pioneer-audiovisual.eu/eu/def/products/vsx-424

I have not seen any support for 4Ohm speakers for the Pioneer your looking at.  Maybe it does but they say nothing in the manual i just read on there site.


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## AnestisMania (Jan 15, 2017)

Pff i cant pick
This is the end of the line...
we need your wisdom one last time mr.asrock..... and any other man-woman-*anything really* wants to say anything

PIONEER VSX-424-K ->Site: http://www.pioneer-audiovisual.eu/eu/def/products/vsx-424
Vs
yamaha RX-V381 ->Site: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v381_u/
yamaha RX-V375 ->Site: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v375_black_u/

Pfffffff ill never touch em again >


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## AsRock (Jan 15, 2017)

If getting the 375 would save you a good chunk of money go for it, i am sure it would if it was second hand and would give you the options you want plus a few more if you decide to later to use them.

I am using a 375 now and it's not a bad unit at all, i am activity seeking to replace it which i did about 6 weeks ago with a NAD T753 how ever windows hates 5.1 optical it seems so i ended up going back to the 375 ( due to HDMI ) as to me it was better than my ONKYO 608.

As you have 4-8Ohm speakers (kinda odd that is ) i would of thought the 375\481 was the safer bet as they do say it supports 4Ohm though the front left\right speakers.


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## WhiteNoise (Jan 17, 2017)

AsRock said:


> Of course Harman & Kardon,  actually a brand i have never tried, how consistent are they with their sound though models ?, for example Yamaha always aim for a natural sound.
> 
> And always wanted to try a good valve amp but with my music range i been recommended not too and my mood for music changes day to day so be a load of messing about.  And no space to have 2 systems setup sadly.



I've listened to several HK's over the years. My friend has one of their high end 5.1 receivers (back when 5.1 was the standard) and still to this day it sounds amazing. He actually has the same speakers as me as well. I would say HK make some of the better amps out there and truly sound fantastic. Between the ones I have heard they all sound great only the speakers changing the sound at all. 

Here is a quote from home theater review on the HK 3490 and I agree with their thoughts:



> HK  has long been a proponent of high-current, ultrawide-bandwidth amplifier designs, and it pays sonic dividends. The sound is open and detailed, with clean upper midrange and highs, not harsh or grainy in the slightest.


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## monim1 (Jan 28, 2017)

You can try any of these
Onkyo A-9010 Integrated Stereo Amplifier
Yamaha RX-V379BL 5.1-Channel A/V Receiver
Sony STR-DH550 5.2 Channel 4K AV Receiver
Harman Kardon Audiophile Home Theater Receiver (AVR 1610S)


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