# using external power supply for graphics card



## Geofrancis (Oct 10, 2009)

my computer only has a 200w power supply and i want to run a hd4850 graphics card in it.

now i have a 120w 12v power brick spare now can i use it to power the graphics card? i was going to hook the 120w power supply up to the pci-e power connection on the graphics card.

my main worry are that the slight voltage differences between the two power supplies will damage the graphics card internaly.

and will the graphics card keep running even after i power the system down because it still has power?


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## I see SPY! (Oct 10, 2009)

Okay, first of all, do you know exactly what you are planning to do? Because that does not seem very safe AT ALL. You don't wanna risk frying your machine, do you?

The only other thing I can think of is using some software like Rivatuner or Ati Tray Tools to heavily undervolt and underclock the card so that the power supply can feed it, but even then I don't think those 200W will be enough...


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## Geofrancis (Oct 10, 2009)

like i said i want to run a external 12v power supply into the pci-e power socket on the graphics card to take the load off the internal power supply.

i know there is graphics card power supplys out there but i already have this 120w psu here so i want to use it.


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## Reventon (Oct 10, 2009)

I'd just get a new PSU. Sounds dangerous.


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## InTeL-iNsIdE (Oct 10, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> like i said i want to run a external 12v power supply into the pci-e power socket on the graphics card to take the load off the internal power supply.
> 
> i know there is graphics card power supplys out there but i already have this 120w psu here so i want to use it.



is it specifically an external psu for graphics cards or is it an old 120w psu ? does it have pcie i have never seen a 120 w with pcie


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## Geofrancis (Oct 10, 2009)

its a 120w 12v power brick that i was using for an itx pico psu.

i was going to make an adapter so i could plug the psu into the graphics card pci-e socket. 

the computer its being installed in has a 200w propriaty power supply that i cannot upgrade so a second power supply is my only option


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## pantherx12 (Oct 10, 2009)

Why can't you upgrade it? is it rivited to the case?

Also you would need to do more then create an adapter, you would have to fiddle with the inside of the PSU itself to make sure its the right voltage etc and it doesn't send to much power to the card etc etc.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 10, 2009)

the 120w power supply has only a 12v output. the graphics card pci-e socket only takes 12v i dont see the problem with it.

the power supply has a different shape to normal atx or micro atx power supplies or i would have upgraded it already.


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## mikek75 (Oct 10, 2009)

It should be possible, however, that 120w PSU would barely supply enough power for the card under load.

This sounds like a blatant advert but I've got a spare Thermaltake GPU PSU, 250w and 25A would be a much better solution. £25 plus however much it would cost to send.


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## pantherx12 (Oct 10, 2009)

Why do you bother keeping the case? ha ha


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## Geofrancis (Oct 10, 2009)

i found a site that looked at the distribution of power into a graphics card from the pcie slot and the pci-e power cable and a hd4850 takes about 55w from the slot and about 55w from the pci-e power socket so im pretty sure that the power supply will be sufficient.

my main questions are will the graphics card be ok with the 12v power remaining on after the main power supply is turned off? and will the graphics card continue to use power .


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## sneekypeet (Oct 10, 2009)

there is a way to link PSU's together to turn on and off at the same time. I would be more worried if the 120W "brick" had the amperage to push said card, not the wattage.


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## mikek75 (Oct 10, 2009)

Yeah, but your 200w PSU is already running hard running the rest of the rig (CPU, Mobo, HDDs, Fans), its not really designed to run discrete graphics. You have to buy an adapter to couple the PSU's anyway. Then it would shut down with the main PSU (in the same way as the GPU supply)

Tell you what, in the interest of helping a TPUer out, you can have the GPU PSU for £20 + postage. I guarantee it will be a much nicer solution than the ghetto mod you are proposing!


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## Arrakis9 (Oct 10, 2009)

if you want to think about getting one of those thermaltake external psu's i have one and would be willing to sell it on the cheap


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## pantherx12 (Oct 10, 2009)

I'd say buy a new case, ebuyer do cheap ones that are potentially good with some light modding, then buy a new PSU and run what ever hardware you like!

Shameless plug, I'm selling a PSU so if you do go down that route PM me for details etc.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 11, 2009)

i have seen the vga power supplies thats why i know it can be done. i might use my 120w picopsu to power the graphics card and run a wire from the psu_on pin on the atx plug on the motherboard into the pico psu so that they both power on and off together. 

changing the case or stock power supply is out of the question as i have invested to much time and money in it getting it to where it is and i like a challenge.

this is the case in question its a morex 669 itx case modified to take a 5x sata hard drive rack 






there is only about 7cm above the motherboard and between the back of the rack and the back of the case. there isnt even enough space for the hd 4850 in the pci-e slot so i have had to buy a ribbon pci-e riser and move the card one slot over so i could fit.

i will take some more pics of the internals soon

this is the power supply the case takes http://www.itx-warehouse.co.uk/Product.aspx?ProductID=435
i have seen them up to 220w but thats still no where near enough


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## _Zod_ (Oct 11, 2009)

Assuming it is 55 Watts at 12v draw at the pcie, that is only about 4.6 amps. So long as that 120 watt supply can deliver I would say a minimum of 10 amps on the 12v rail you'll be fine. I would definitely tap into the signal wire on the 24 pin for the motherboard so both supplies turn on and off together.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 11, 2009)

this is the insides of the computer im upgrading


























i based the project on project udat that i seen here machie.org http://www.mashie.org/casemods/udat1.html

exept instead of using a via board i used an intel atom 330itx board then i upgraded to a hp 630i dtx + e2180 then to my J&W itx 780g itx board. the next step is to upgrade the graphics card to the hd4850.


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## 3volvedcombat (Oct 11, 2009)

HD 4850 is not an option then T_T. Go for a smaller card like one of evgas no pci-E 6 pin power free 9800gt cards and just turn the key and hope the power supply dosnt xplode. all that for a 200watt powersupply......  Im despreat sometimes, i ran a gtx 260 and a 8800gt on a 500 watt psu with a overclocked 4.2Ghz e5200 and ram. But 200 watts, all the hardrive, and even undervolted hardware aint going to do much, for another max 75 watts i belive idk though of power that would be needed for a 9800gt card because the slot puts 75 watts max output. 

Check out on it though.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133279

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162032

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500115

they get all there moneyz from te pci-e slot not having to get moneys from an 6 pin express connector being more of a power hog .


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 11, 2009)

Subscribed. I must see how this is going to turn out. 

I predict some kinda history repeating itself...... Chicago fire anyone?


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## Geofrancis (Oct 11, 2009)

the 4850 is going into the computer im just trying to figure out how to do it. 

i already sold the 4850 and wanted to buy a hd 4670 but it got returned so now i have the challenge of fitting it into the case and powering it.

so stop telling me to get a new card or case or power supply or that it cant be done. 

it can be done i just done know how yet lol


the pci-e riser ribbon cable has already been ordered and i have the 120w psu already waiting so its just a  matter of time


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## 3volvedcombat (Oct 11, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Subscribed. I must see how this is going to turn out.
> 
> I predict some kinda history repeating itself...... Chicago fire anyone?
> 
> http://1heckofaguy.com/wp-content/photos/Chicago-fire1.jpg


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## MN12BIRD (Oct 11, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> the 120w power supply has only a 12v output. the graphics card pci-e socket only takes 12v i dont see the problem with it.
> 
> the power supply has a different shape to normal atx or micro atx power supplies or i would have upgraded it already.



Do you know for certain that this PSU is going to be well regulated under a high load??


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## IINexusII (Oct 11, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> the 4850 is going into the computer im just trying to figure out how to do it.
> 
> i already sold the 4850 and wanted to buy a hd 4670 but it got returned so now i have the challenge of fitting it into the case and powering it.
> 
> ...



then i wish good luck


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## Geofrancis (Oct 11, 2009)

MN12BIRD said:


> Do you know for certain that this PSU is going to be well regulated under a high load??



i have used the 120w psu along with a pico psu to power an atom 330 board along with 4 hard drives without a problem so im pretty sure that it will work ok with a decent load on it


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## 3volvedcombat (Oct 11, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> the 4850 is going into the computer im just trying to figure out how to do it.
> 
> i already sold the 4850 and wanted to buy a hd 4670 but it got returned so now i have the challenge of fitting it into the case and powering it.
> 
> ...



My bad for trying to give you another suggestion :/. I know i would acctualy try doing it to . I did use 2 dif power supplys 1 time. I hooked up my 530 watt to the 260 and the res of the rig, then i ghosted the power supply with a paper clip bent to the ground, to one of the green cables and what it did was just turn on automaticly. So just ghost the power supply first, it was a danger to me because i didnt know if my 8800gt was going to blow up(it was being power by the power supply that i paper cliped). But i shuved the AC plug into the moded power supply and pushed the switch on the rig were everything was at the same time, and tada is worked just fine for some tripple 19 inch screen madniss in crysis. Played everything on high exept LOD was on low, which helped alot at about 20+Fps most the time, great having such a rape FOV in crysis. I could see the rocks behind me 

From my single experience with a simple mod it will be fine XD.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 11, 2009)

3volvedcombat said:


> My bad for trying to give you another suggestion :/. I know i would acctualy try doing it to . I did use 2 dif power supplys 1 time. I hooked up my 530 watt to the 260 and the res of the rig, then i ghosted the power supply with a paper clip bent to the ground, to one of the green cables and what it did was just turn on automaticly. So just ghost the power supply first, it was a danger to me because i didnt know if my 8800gt was going to blow up(it was being power by the power supply that i paper cliped). But i shuved the AC plug into the moded power supply and pushed the switch on the rig were everything was at the same time, and tada is worked just fine for some tripple 19 inch screen madniss in crysis. Played everything on high exept LOD was on low, which helped alot at about 20+Fps most the time, great having such a rape FOV in crysis. I could see the rocks behind me
> 
> From my single experience with a simple mod it will be fine XD.



its good to see that somone has already done the same mod and survived without being left with a chard mess


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## SonDa5 (Oct 11, 2009)

I recently tried out a multi PSU configuration with my RIG. 

Used dedicated Corsair VX450W for my HD4770s.

Used dedicated Corsair TX650W for CPU, MB, hdds, fans.

I did this by connecting the VX450 to a separate MB without a CPU. I would first power up my MB powered by the VX450W feeding the HD5770s.
Then I would immediatly power up my CPU MB powered by the TX650W powering CPU and other related hardware listed above.

Ran OCCT PSU test and discovered my power ripples were less which is better. Not by much though. 
Only performance gains I noticed were with the improved ripple. RIG can still OC just as good. OCCT PSU analysis is questionable.

So in short IMO it's best to get a decent single PSU that can power every thing right. Less hassels with wiring and potential extra heat from wires in case.


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## musek (Oct 11, 2009)

As *sneekypeet* said - it's the amperage that matters the most. Could you get any specifications of this 120W PSU? How much from the total output power is purposed for 12V with what amperage?


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## slyfox2151 (Oct 11, 2009)

im going to assume it will do 8 - 10 amps, 120watts devided by 12v = 10.

he said it only supplys 12 volts.


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## musek (Oct 11, 2009)

Oh, my bad, sorry. So IMO with a safe way to power on and off both PSUs it should be okay.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 12, 2009)

like i said before i still have a pico psu from a previous project and i was thinking of using the psu-on pin and a ground pin on the pico psu connected to the motherboard power supply socket so that they both get the power-on signal together and power on instead of using a separate motherboard.

and a 120w / 12v = 10A like slyfox2151 said.

i also have a digital multimeter to verify voltages so i will try to get readings of both powers supplys to verify the voltages.


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## sneekypeet (Oct 12, 2009)

your math for the 120W is overrated...you are doing your math based on a 100% efficient PSU. More realistically you are getting 6-8 amps durring opperation. I would still be concerned that it isnt enough power, then you risk burning the spare PSU and possibly the card itself.


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## driver66 (Oct 12, 2009)

I do not believe 10 amps will be enough at all


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## pantherx12 (Oct 12, 2009)

If the other PSU is sepperate, why not use a decent one?

Or one with long wires ? heh

get rid of the built in one and just feed the wires through, have the other PSU sitting underneath hidden or something


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## MKmods (Oct 12, 2009)

Like others already said "in a perfect world" the PS may put out that much power (but its more likeli not able to.

So it may work but would be forcing the Pico PS to its limit (and its life may be cut really short). I use on in my Lego comp (150 watt version). I really like it and its very efficient (over 90%) But I wouldnt think to power a 4850 with it.

Now all that said My personal comp (W3503, X58mobo,3 Hdds, two 4770s and asus sound card is pulling 158 watts at the plug right now while I am typing this) So it "MAY" work but I would definitely pick up a "Kill A Watt" first than measure the power needed exactly (rather than guessing)

Here is a better idea
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/epower_2kw/

just a bit of Overkill... You are probably better off trying to fit a bit better PS to replace the 200 watt one rather than messing with all the wiring.


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## CAPITAL LETTERS (Oct 12, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> like i said i want to run a external 12v power supply into the pci-e power socket on the graphics card to take the load off the internal power supply.
> 
> i know there is graphics card power supplys out there but i already have this 120w psu here so i want to use it.



my freind wanted to do the samething. and he did.....just after about 2 week his card died, he sent it back, and they said they do not cover warranty of volt/power damaged card

so 2 things learnt from that.
1, it will ruin your card. and,
2, it will ruin the warranty even if your card barely survives


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## Geofrancis (Oct 12, 2009)

i found a site with the power consumption figures for an hd4850.
http://translate.google.com/transla...phics/index30.php&sl=de&tl=en&history_state0=


PEG 3,3V 	0.75 A 	 3.30V 	             2.5 W
PEG 12V	4.38 A 	 11.89 V 	            52.1 W
PCIe 6-Pin  7.82 A 	 11.97 V 	            93.6 W

Total 			148.2 W

so 7.28A should be fine on the 120w psu but i will be undervolting it so it should be 10-20w less

50w is still alot on the 200w internal psu r but thats what a hd4650 would have used.


i thought the way efficiency worked was that if you were drawing 100w of power from a 80% efficient power supply you would have to draw an extra 20w or 120w total from the ac source. if it was 100% efficient it would draw only the 100w from the source


lol warrenties i dont think i have ever used one in 9 years just look at what happened to a brand new eeepc 
eeepc link in my sig.


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## kurosagi01 (Oct 12, 2009)

save yourself the trouble dude and just buy this corsair 400w power your system with 4850 easily.
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/150985
also if you have cooling problem buy the best bang on the buck case which i'd say is NZXT Beta, very good cooling and very nice designed case
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/170039
then buy 3x 120mm fans like this:
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/138586
in total £92 thats what i would do


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 12, 2009)

You mean like this? That -was- Vector 120 to 12v adaptor for using automotive type 12v coolers in the house. Powering a HD3870.


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## Tatty_One (Oct 12, 2009)

The hardware side can be done as I have hardwired a spare single rail 600W PSU I have(there are plenty of guides on the webz on how to hard wire the 20/24 pin Atx plug)  to run one of two GTX275's I had as I thought that with an i7 overclocked my 750W may have been a little "close to the wire"...... it worked like a charm.

My concerns are similar to others though, that again you will be running close to the wire with your 2nd unit, IMO you need a healthy margin.  If your concerned about cost, for the sake of that old smell of burning and the price of shipping only....you can have my spare  600W 30A single rail unit (Sansun Black..... nothing special) ..... then you can get rid of both of those hideous units!


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## Geofrancis (Oct 12, 2009)

i am keeping the case and the power supply that's in it i am not getting a new one. 

if the 120w dc brick is not powerful enough i seen 200w dc power supply's on ebay that do 12v but im not sure how to power it up with the main power supply without the pico psu. if someone could show me a circuit with a relay that would turn the power on on the second power supply when the main one comes on it would be helpful.


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 12, 2009)

coming up...

Do you want to leave the bricks ac on and switch the 12v side? Or do you want to switch the 120v side? They don't draw very much without a load so don't worry about power consumption.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 12, 2009)

idealy i would like the relay on the 12v side. i dont like the idea if mains power cables inside my computer.


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 12, 2009)

Guys PLEASE STOP trying to talk him out of this. I really want before and after pictures.


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 12, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> idealy i would like the relay on the 12v side. i dont like the idea if mains power cables inside my computer.



You got it. I'll post it in schematic format so it can get stickied once and for all. 

I have to run out for a few, ironically to pick up a power supply, and when I get back I'll post it up.

All you do is pick up a 12v (or 5v) relay and connect the coil to a 12v (or 5v) supply from your main PSU. That will be one black for ground and one yellow for +12v (or red for 5v). This activates the relay's coil when you turn on the computer. On the 12v adaptor your using for the GPU, cut the positive and put those wires across the normally open switch contacts of the relay. They might be labled 'no' (normally open) and 'com' (common) in a typical spdt (single pole double throw) relay.
They would look like this on the relay's schematic drawing.

--------
------^      Notice the contacts don't touch. This is the resting position (normally open).

Usually a diode is placed in reverse across the relay's coil to catch emf spikes from the coil. You don't have to worry about that so much because the main psu's caps and filtering can absorb it. If you do want that protection, place a diode across the relay's coil like this   (+) -----|<----- (-)  to catch the emf spike. The coil has no polarity so the + and - would be determined by which way you soldered the main psu's power to the relay's coil. Diode stripe (cathode) to the positive side.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 12, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> You got it. I'll post it in schematic format so it can get stickied once and for all.
> 
> I have to run out for a few, ironically to pick up a power supply, and when I get back I'll post it up.
> 
> ...




i thought thats how to do it but i wanted a second opinion before i cut into anything.


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## MilkyWay (Oct 12, 2009)

hmmmn if it was me id just get a better cleaner psu, its not ideal to run 2 psus

if you can afford a psu just for the gpu (not that in this case as its just a spare you had lying around) you can more than likely afford a single good amperage psu

i think it would run okay but the amperage might be a little low


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## mikek75 (Oct 12, 2009)

Or pay me £20+P+P for this dedicated 25A 250w GPU PSU I have here, and all your worries will be over.


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## lemonadesoda (Oct 12, 2009)

Never mind all this PSU talk, your morex case is WAY TOO SMALL to handle the thermal exit requirements for a 4850, esp. with that RAID rack.

You have a fabulous rig there... dont spoil it trying to get a hot number in a tight space


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## theorw (Oct 12, 2009)

SonDa5 said:


> I did this by connecting the VX450 to a separate MB without a CPU. I would first power up my MB powered by the VX450W feeding the HD5770s.
> Then I would immediatly power up my CPU MB powered by the TX650W powering CPU and other related hardware listed above.



Now why whould u do taht when its known that u shortsircuit the green mobo pin of the psu in need with any ground and then u power it on and of with the power switch!
I had done this and i had also connected the main and the secondary PSUs green cables and the opened at the same time!


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## Sir_Real (Oct 12, 2009)

First time i've notice this thread but i've been running 2 psu's on this pc for months. I just did the wire mod ( green to black ) to have a second atx psu powering my hd4850. 
I was running the HD4850 from a 12volt / 5 Amp Lcd monitor mains adapter for a while worked ok but the brick mains adapter was getting to hot when gaming. Hense it got swopped for a atx psu.



.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 13, 2009)

lemonadesoda said:


> Never mind all this PSU talk, your morex case is WAY TOO SMALL to handle the thermal exit requirements for a 4850, esp. with that RAID rack.
> 
> You have a fabulous rig there... dont spoil it trying to get a hot number in a tight space



i have been thinking of the heat from it as it is going to be a tight fit. but i have reversed the fan on the raid rack so that its blowing air out of the front of the case so none of the hard drive heat is drawn in. and if the 4850 does run too hot in the case i dont mind taking a dremel to it and cutting some vents in the right hand side of the case and adding an extra fan if need be.....come to think of it i have got a watercooling setup sitting in a drawer but i cant see anywhere to fit the pump and radiator.




Sir_Real said:


> First time i've notice this thread but i've been running 2 psu's on this pc for months. I just did the wire mod ( green to black ) to have a second atx psu powering my hd4850.
> I was running the HD4850 from a 12volt / 5 Amp Lcd monitor mains adapter for a while worked ok but the brick mains adapter was getting to hot when gaming. Hense it got swopped for a atx psu.
> .



the 12v mains adapter i am planning on using does 10A so if you ran a 4850 on a 5a psu then it should be ok i think.


this is going to happen i dont care how much cutting, soldering, modifying i will get the 4850 in this computer lol


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 13, 2009)




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## Geofrancis (Oct 13, 2009)

ok well i have ordered this 12v 40a relay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270464779173&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
this 2.5mm dc power socket for the back of my case
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390098309116&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
and this pci-e ribbon riser so i can move the 4850 a slot over
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350204890259&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


so i think thats all i will need plus the 120w psu i already got.


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 13, 2009)

With a relay that big you might want to go with a diode. 1N4001 should do fine.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 13, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> With a relay that big you might want to go with a diode. 1N4001 should do fine.



what exactly is the diode for. i know what they do but why do you need one across the relay?


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## pantherx12 (Oct 13, 2009)

Hey man maybe just buy a 5.25 psu?

there's 2 for sale in this thread

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=105973


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## Geofrancis (Oct 13, 2009)

have you seen the photos of the case? there is barely space for a 3.5" hard drive never mind a 5.25" psu. plus i would then also have to deal with the heat of the hd4850 and a 300w psu dumping heat into the case.


the relay/pci-e cable/power socket are already ordered and i already have a 120w psu.

i might invest in a couple of 12v car ammeters and instal them on the case somewhere so i can see the power consumption in real time.


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## pantherx12 (Oct 13, 2009)

Well I thought seeing as you were having it external anyway, and the PSUs I mentioned are cheap ha ha


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## Geofrancis (Oct 13, 2009)

pantherx12 said:


> Well I thought seeing as you were having it external anyway, and the PSUs I mentioned are cheap ha ha



those vga power supplies are just a polished version of what im building. when they get power from a molex plug on the main psu they come on and when it turns off they go off. i am going to do the same thing with a relay that is just a electromagnetic switch that turns on when it gets power form the molex it pushes a switch that connects the slave 120w power supply to the graphics card.

how much of a dely can there be between the main psu coming on and the slave power supply kicking in? i imagine for these external psu's to work there cant be a delay of more than a few milliseconds of the main psu coming on.


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## mikek75 (Oct 13, 2009)

Its a bit more involved than that with my Thermaltake, it has a 24pin passthrough connector. As far as I've been able to tell it "backs up" the main PSU (or else why the need for the 24pin)? There is certainly no delay in start up, it just works.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 13, 2009)

mikek75 said:


> Its a bit more involved than that with my Thermaltake, it has a 24pin passthrough connector. As far as I've been able to tell it "backs up" the main PSU (or else why the need for the 24pin)? There is certainly no delay in start up, it just works.



how many wires are there connecting the thermaltake psu to the main power supply? i have seen people connecting the psu-on and a ground pin from the atx plug on the slave power supply into the motherboard along with the main power supply so that they both get the on signal togther and power off together.


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## mikek75 (Oct 13, 2009)

Oh dear, I've made a boo boo. Its been a while since I looked at it. The 24 Pin connection is basically a riser, with a cable from the unit with 1 green and 2 black wires going into it. Apologies for the mis-information.


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 13, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> what exactly is the diode for. i know what they do but why do you need one across the relay?



When you remove power from a coil the magnetic field collapses and induces a voltage into the coil. It's called flyback or back/reverse emf. The voltage can be 100s or 1000s times more then the voltage applied to the coil and can have damaging effects if left uncontrolled. Adding a diode gives the voltage a path back into the coil to prevent voltage spikes.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 13, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> When you remove power from a coil the magnetic field collapses and induces a voltage into the coil. It's called flyback or back/reverse emf. The voltage can be 100s or 1000s times more then the voltage applied to the coil and can have damaging effects if left uncontrolled. Adding a diode gives the voltage a path back into the coil to prevent voltage spikes.



ok thank you i have ordered 10 in4001 diodes from ebay. i got the 10 for £1 inc delivery
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-x-1N4001-1...s_ET?hash=item439a5fed25&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14


so now i have the 120w 12v dc power supply
the dc power socket so i can plug the powersupply into the back of the case
12v relay to power on the 120w power supply
1N4001 diode for the signal side of the relay

now to connect the graphics card pci-e plug and cable to the relay i was just going to run the pci-e cable into a heavy duty terminal block and connect it to some heavy duty silicone wire i have from some rc projects into the relay then to the power connection

like this


----------



## angelkiller (Oct 13, 2009)

sneekypeet said:


> your math for the 120W is overrated...you are doing your math based on a 100% efficient PSU. More realistically you are getting 6-8 amps durring opperation. I would still be concerned that it isnt enough power, then you risk burning the spare PSU and possibly the card itself.


Hm. I think I gotta call you out on this one () The output is measured in volts DC. Just like any PSU. This adapter turns 120v AC into 12v DC. _That_ is where the inefficiency lies. The power brick is rated at 120W @ 12v. That means it can deliver 120W @ 12v. The inefficiency lies in the AC-->DC conversion, so when the something is drawing 120W DC, the AC adapter is drawing ~134W from the wall (assuming ~90% efficiency) because the AC-->DC conversion is not 100% efficient.

120W @ 12v means 10A. There's no other way to give 120W @ 12v without giving 10A. And one assumption I've made during this post is that the brick can give its full power. Which is a quite safe assumption, as that's what the rating means. That brick can give 10A at 12v maximum.

As for the situation, I say go for it! I think it's totally doable. Under Furmark the 4850 draws ~150W. That means that the PCI-E slot has to give 30W minimum. But in that situation would be out of spec because PCI-E says 75W max per 6pin connector. So to come within spec, the PCI-E slot will have to give its full 75W. That creates a question. What determines where the power comes from? How do we know that the card won't draw 150W from its 6pin connector? Because under Furmark, the card must max out both its PCI-E connection _and_ its 6pin connector. What's regulating that? Why not just draw 60W from the slot and 90 from the 6pin? IMO, the best option would be to draw ~100W from the 6pin and 50W from the slot.

But also realize that that's furmark. If you deal with a realistic load, the 4850 only peaks at 85W, which is much easier to power. Worst case here is that the slot gives a full 75W, which leaves only 125W for the rest of the system. But that may/may not be an issue depending on the rest of the system. And for every watt under 75 that the PCI-E slot doesn't give will give that much more power dedicated to the system. You could in theory run the 4850 completely on the 12v adapter, assuming you don't run Furmark. 

The way I see it, the worst case scenarios are all manageable and safe.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Oct 13, 2009)

Geofrancis: Your drawing is correct. You could have salvaged any rectifier diode from unwanted electronics. It didn't specifically need to be the 4001s. Their just very common and cheap.

For what it's worth, this runs off a cheap-o 300w m-atx psu with a single 16a +12v rail.

Zotac GE9300 m-itx motherboard
Intel e6750 2.66ghz overclocked @3.2ghz (1600fsb)
G-skill DDR2 4gb (2x2gb) 4-4-4-12@800mhz
WD 750gb RE3 7200rpm 3.5" hdd
ATI HD3870 512mb

I also tried a 12v 6a adaptor to run the 3870 and it worked fine. The card shown in the pic is a 1950.


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 13, 2009)

well i have ordered the diodes anyway they were only £1 and i have to wait for the pci-e riser from china first before i do anything. 

i will just glue the relay to the side of the internal power supply and run the wires from the dc plug that will be mounted on the back of the case to the relay and the internal psu 12v for the signal.


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 14, 2009)

i have took a couple of photos of my computer with a different hd4850 that i have at the moment i am swapping it for a friends single slot 4850 cos this one doesnt fit. 

it dwarfs the case and the reference single slot version is longer.





and a shot of the back





the black cable sticking out the back of the case is the esata-sata cable. the reason i got the j&w board was it was the only itx board i could find that had the capability of running a quadcore, 5 sata hard drives and a graphics card


----------



## Lazzer408 (Oct 14, 2009)

isnt that a microatx psu in there?


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 14, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> isnt that a microatx psu in there?



no its much flatter than a micro atx psu and the power cable is in the wrong place.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Oct 14, 2009)

looks easier to mod a matx psu.


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 14, 2009)

i could have modded a micro atx psu as you can get 500w ones now but to get it in to the case i would have had to either open the power supplies up and try and swap the guts of them around or trying to get the micro atx psu to fit into the case but then the power cable would be in the wrong place etc with the risk that if something fucked up could cause serious damage.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Oct 14, 2009)

I did a few tests on my HD3870 to see what it was drawing off the 12v connector.

DC amps / activity

1.90 / Post and booting.
0.25 / Windows desktop.
2.6-3.2 / 3dMark06 with the highest current draw being Firefly Forrest.

I read this card is 80w. I also read the standard for 6-pin is 75w and 8-pin is 150w. Divided by 12v = 6.25a and 12.5a respectively.


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 14, 2009)

this is come power consumption figures i took with my killawatt meter 

1.05vcore no cool and quiet
 cpu		
138w	load
99w	idle

so with 138w will a full prime 95 load leaves 62w ish

well from what i got from a german computer site as 

4.38A @ 11.89V = 52.1 W pci-e slot
7.82A @ 11.97V = 93.6 W from the pci-e power cable for the hd4850 so that is well below the 120w or 10A that the external power supply can deliver

138w+52.1w = 190.1w that is a bit close to the wire on the internal power supply so i think i will so some undervolting and underclocking of the graphics card to bring the power draw down.

even then i highly doubt that i will be running furmark + prime 95 at the same time.


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 17, 2009)

ok ive got the relay and the diodes now i just have to go over to my friends and swap my hd4850 golden sample for his reference design single slot 4850

i have also ordered a lot of new parts for this computer ive got the flu just now and in my fevered delirium i started thinking crazy thoughts like a full water cooling setup, lcd screens and much much more.

my water pump just fits under the hard drive rack and i can get a 80mm radiator and a 92mm radiator to fit on it and i still have a cpu/northbridge waterblocks i want to fit.
but il leave that for now and focus on getting the graphics card working. 

i have made up a circuit that will let me use a red/green/blue led to indicate the status of the external power supply. when the computer is off and the power supply is connected the relay is open and turns on the red part of the led to let me know that the power supply is connected ok and when the computer is powered up it will close the relay and connect the blue part of the led letting me know the graphics card has power.







the new parts ive ordered for the computer are 

aluminum sheet for the front. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150380922094&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
new usb ports for the front http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160363354028&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
new power switch http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160369271033&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT 
reset switch http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320433577305&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
rgb led's http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380127739848&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
led holders http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350232770025&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
usb lcd display http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220485014364&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

im going to start a project log soon once i get the graphics card in.


----------



## Sir_Real (Oct 17, 2009)

Seems alot of messing about to me ! Whats wrong with just flicking the switch at the wall socket ?


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 17, 2009)

Sir_Real said:


> Seems alot of messing about to me ! Whats wrong with just flicking the switch at the wall socket ?



lol that would be easy wheres the fun in that.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Oct 17, 2009)

Looking good Geofrancis. Didn't want to waste that other switch pole on the relay hmm? At first I thought your LED was an op-amp and I was really wondering wtf you were doing then I read the post.


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 18, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> Looking good Geofrancis. Didn't want to waste that other switch pole on the relay hmm? At first I thought your LED was an op-amp and I was really wondering wtf you were doing then I read the post.



well i wanted to run an op-amp but i didnt see the point 

if i get everything i want into this computer actually into it then it must be some kind of record for the most computer parts stuffed into less than 1 cubic foot.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Oct 18, 2009)

I have .1812 cubic feet to cram 12,000 3dmarks into without burning the carpet.


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 18, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> I have .1812 cubic feet to cram 12,000 3dmarks into without burning the carpet.



nothing liquid helium wont fix lol

i also discovered a natural coolant that i use when things go on fire....i piss on it


----------



## Lazzer408 (Oct 18, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> nothing liquid helium wont fix lol
> 
> i also discovered a natural coolant that i use when things go on fire....i piss on it



I hope you unplug it... unless your into that kinda stuff... in which case I still hope you unplug it.


----------



## brandonwh64 (Oct 18, 2009)

Pissing on it! i love it!


----------



## Chryonn (Oct 18, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> I hope you unplug it... unless your into that kinda stuff... in which case I still hope you unplug it.



that's an urban myth.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Oct 18, 2009)

Chryonn said:


> that's an urban myth.



Then you should definitely stick your pecker in a wall socket.


----------



## Chryonn (Oct 18, 2009)

no thanks, that one's NOT an urban myth.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Oct 18, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Then you should definitely stick your pecker in a wall socket.



Where's he gonna stick the LEDs?


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 19, 2009)

does anyone know where in the uk i can get some very thin bolts about 1mm that i can use to secure a northbridge waterblock to the motherboard?


----------



## Lazzer408 (Oct 19, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> does anyone know where in the uk i can get some very thin bolts about 1mm that i can use to secure a northbridge waterblock to the motherboard?



Do you have a hobby shop in your town? Some hardware stores also carry very small machine screws but they might be on a seperate rack then the other nuts and bolts.


----------



## SonDa5 (Oct 19, 2009)

theorw said:


> Now why whould u do taht when its known that u shortsircuit the green mobo pin of the psu in need with any ground....






Short circuiting is not a good thing.

I had the extra MB sitting around and it was easy to do. didn't have to mess with my main RIG MB. Kept the video card PSU out of the case. Just ran the power cables through the holes in the rear of the ANtec 900 case.


It was just an experiment. I did end up pulling off my best Vantage score though. 

http://service.futuremark.com/resultComparison.action?compareResultId=1411203&compareResultType=19

Performance gain from multi-psu set up is marginal and questionable. 


I was trouble shooting my main Corsair TX650W to see if I should upgrade PSU. 
Results proved to me that I didn't need to upgrade PSU. 


Best to go with a good PSU that is rated for devices to begin with.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Oct 19, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> I did a few tests on my HD3870 to see what it was drawing off the 12v connector.
> 
> DC amps / activity
> 
> ...



I wanted to mention my results with the 4850. It's bios modded for lower idle clocks and fan control was altered. Readings taken from 12v connector. Quite a difference from the 3870. 

DC amps / activity

3.35 / Post and boot
2.08 / Windows desktop
6.14 / 3dmark Firefly Forest


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 19, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> I wanted to mention my results with the 4850. It's bios modded for lower idle clocks and fan control was altered. Readings taken from 12v connector. Quite a difference from the 3870.
> 
> DC amps / activity
> 
> ...



well that looks less than i was expecting so it shouldnt have a problem running of the 120w 10a psu.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 21, 2009)

i have came up with a plan for my computer to fit all the watercooling components i will need into it.






its gonna be tight!


----------



## musek (Oct 21, 2009)

All  Microsoft Paint. 


Looks good IMO. Good luck!


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 21, 2009)

This is all crammed into that case? haha nice.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 21, 2009)

musek said:


> All  Microsoft Paint.
> 
> 
> Looks good IMO. Good luck!


i have some mad paint SKILLZ lol



Lazzer408 said:


> This is all crammed into that case? haha nice.



yea its gonna be real tight! you should try and get some watercooling into your build.


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## TheMailMan78 (Oct 21, 2009)

Any pictures of fire? I wanna see some burning silicone damn it!


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 21, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> yea its gonna be real tight! you should try and get some watercooling into your build.



I already have to modify the powersupplies heatsinks to get that to fit. lol Trust me there's no more room except for this little pocket under the... How small do they make pumps?


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 21, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> I already have to modify the powersupplies heatsinks to get that to fit. lol Trust me there's no more room except for this little pocket under the... How small do they make pumps?



lol i was looking at a picture of the your case you could get the pumps and waterblocks in but theres no where to put a radiator.

i suppose you could mabe squeeze one of these dual 40mm radiator in. 
http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product_info.php/info/p1703_Magicool-Mini-II-2x40-Radiator.html


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 21, 2009)

Now your just egging me on. lol


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## Geofrancis (Oct 21, 2009)

what about a 80mm radiator where the hard drive mounts are behind the graphics card.


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 21, 2009)

You mean the mount at the front of the case that I'll be removing to make room for the videocard lenght? There will be about ~1.25" of space back there between the videocard and the bottom of the case. I planned on putting a 60 or 80mm thin fan there on the bottom to blow fresh air into the case for the video card. I'd need a really thin 1/2" radiator to make that work. I may need that space for a psu heatsink. I'll need to heatpipe from the psu over to it though.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 21, 2009)

yea you would struggle to get any kind of radiator into your case. but you could mabe get one of these and split it so 2 are mounted on each the side of the case externally next to the fans for air.

im pretty sure you can get it black.
http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product_info.php/info/p1725_Cape-Cora-Pro-442-convect-silver.html


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 21, 2009)

I didn't want to frankenstein the outside at all. Other then the fan in the bottom, there's no outside modifications. I'm trying to tweak it out as best I can and retain a simple look.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 21, 2009)

ah well then worth a shot lol. i dont really like having bits sticking out my computer either.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 21, 2009)

i have just been counting up how much the watercooling setup for my computer is going to cost me its nearly reching £100

got

zalman cpu waterblock
zalman northbridge block
XSPC 450LHP pump
hose

i still need

92mm radiator   £28
80mm radiator   £18
graphics card core block   £15
graphics card ram block    £16
4x 90 degree fittings     £10
4x hose clamps       £2.50


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## Geofrancis (Oct 26, 2009)

thats me got the wiring for the external power supply set up and soldered together. just got to swap my 4850 for my friends single slot version then get it all in the case.


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## Geofrancis (Oct 29, 2009)

I managed to swap my 4850 with my friends single slot one and fit it along with the relay to turn the power on into the case no problem its ran furmark and 3dmark06 and its not had any problems so far. the next step is to setup the leds for the external psu status and mabe cut a vent in the side of the case bacause the graphics card is running a little hot.


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## clipetwi (Oct 29, 2009)

Great info! Really informative. It is helpful for me.
__________________
Cheap tennis ball machine information and reviews of prince and tennis twist | Lobster tennis ball machine


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## Geofrancis (Oct 30, 2009)

i have ran it for a day now and the only problem i have found is that the 4850 is dumping so much heat into the case that its setting the thermal alarm off on my hard drive rack but it has been running fine without the case on it. im going to cut some vents on the side of the case to let air in and the hot air out.


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 30, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> i have ran it for a day now and the only problem i have found is that the 4850 is dumping so much heat into the case that its setting the thermal alarm off on my hard drive rack but it has been running fine without the case on it. im going to cut some vents on the side of the case to let air in and the hot air out.



That sounds familiar. lol


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## Geofrancis (Oct 30, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> That sounds familiar. lol



the joys of small computers 

i am going to cut a hole in the case next to the graphics card and put one of those wire fan grills over it and another slot in the case for the hot air to leave. 

i will probably make a fan shroud like the one on your 4850 to help the hot air leave the case entirely and form a seal between the graphics card and the vents on the case.


----------



## Solaris17 (Oct 30, 2009)

this is some crazy rediculous shit good job dude you pulled it off


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 30, 2009)

Geo let me doodle up an idea for you. brb

Ok, This it a top view. How about something like this but rather then blowing out the back like mine, angle yours towards the side of the case and put a few vertical rows of holes in the case side.

I also cut off the plastic deflector that directs the air upwards. This gave it a straighter shot back.


----------



## Geofrancis (Oct 30, 2009)

lol that was pretty much exactly what i was planning to do. my dremel packed in so im just waiting for a hacksaw and some files to arrive so i can cut it by hand.


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## Geofrancis (Nov 9, 2009)

i have gave up on the aluminum front as it kept getting scratched so i ordered a perspex front as its much easier to cut and shape so im waiting for the perspex so i can get my led's, usb ports, power and reset buttons all mounted. without the hassle of trying to shape aluminium.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Nov 9, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> i have gave up on the aluminum front as it kept getting scratched so i ordered a perspex front as its much easier to cut and shape so im waiting for the perspex so i can get my led's, usb ports, power and reset buttons all mounted. without the hassle of trying to shape aluminium.



Aluminium is butter! What's giving you a problem? Maybe I can suggest something.


----------



## Geofrancis (Nov 9, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> Aluminium is butter! What's giving you a problem? Maybe I can suggest something.



there was scratches all over it and i burnt out my dremmel so i figured i can do just as good a job with clear plastic with an aluminum backing. the plastic is much easier to work with. i can file it into shape much easier and get everything into place rather than hacking away with aluminum that takes a lot longer.


i also got the overheating problem sorted. the problem was my sata rack was set to turn the overheat alarm on at 45c so i set it to 55c instead and now there is no alarms going off all the time.

my lcd screen finaly arrived and has been tested so im going to have that mounted soon


----------



## Lazzer408 (Nov 9, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> there was scratches all over it and i burnt out my dremmel so i figured i can do just as good a job with clear plastic with an aluminum backing. the plastic is much easier to work with. i can file it into shape much easier and get everything into place rather than hacking away with aluminum that takes a lot longer.
> 
> 
> i also got the overheating problem sorted. the problem was my sata rack was set to turn the overheat alarm on at 45c so i set it to 55c instead and now there is no alarms going off all the time.
> ...



Did you do the side port mod for your gpu intake? How's that working out?


----------



## Geofrancis (Nov 9, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> Did you do the side port mod for your gpu intake? How's that working out?



i didnt have to the reason i was going to do that mod was because like i said my hard drive rack overheat alarm kept going off but all i had to do was set it from 45c to 55cf and now there is no problems. the hard drives were never in danger but the alarm is loud and annoying.

the card still runs a but hot but the fan only hits 60% its still loud so i might do the mod anyway once i get another dremel.


----------



## Geofrancis (Nov 10, 2009)

bad news kids the 120w psu i was using has been acting up. first it started with freezing when it was starting up the computer. but it got worse and worse BSOD's freezing crashing.

i only noticed that the psu was cutting in and out because i seen the red light on the back of the graphics card going on and off and the fan going mental. 

next step is to get a new power supply possibly a 200w psu that i can mount internaly like this one


----------



## dr emulator (madmax) (Nov 18, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Then you should definitely stick your pecker in a wall socket.



yes it gives a warm tingly sensation all over your body


----------



## THRiLL KiLL (Nov 18, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> next step is to get a new power supply possibly a 200w psu that i can mount internaly like this one
> ]



looks like a mini 1u power supply. 

the only problem i see with them is that they run hot, and typicaly have a deafing 40mm fan


----------



## Geofrancis (Nov 18, 2009)

THRiLL KiLL said:


> looks like a mini 1u power supply.
> 
> the only problem i see with them is that they run hot, and typicaly have a deafing 40mm fan



yea thats what i thought so i just got another 120w external power supply. im just waiting for it to arrive.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Nov 18, 2009)

The one you posted the picture of is an open frame psu with passive cooling = silent.

I have yet to find a sff psu with a quiet fan. The 1u supplies are even worse.


----------



## THRiLL KiLL (Nov 18, 2009)

why not grab a newer powersupply  that has the 6pin videocard power cable and then jumper it to start when the system starts up?

http://www.overclock.net/faqs/15751-info-can-i-use-two-power.html

yeah it will be a bit bigger, but it will be quietier =)


----------



## Geofrancis (Nov 18, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> The one you posted the picture of is an open frame psu with passive cooling = silent.
> 
> I have yet to find a sff psu with a quiet fan. The 1u supplies are even worse.



well the other thing was like i said in a post before i dont like mains 240v cables in my case.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Nov 18, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> well the other thing was like i said in a post before i dont like mains 240v cables in my case.



I know you had mentioned that. Were you pondering putting the open frame supply in the chassis? I figured you would mount it externally.

What's the 120w brick going to run you?


----------



## Geofrancis (Nov 18, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> I know you had mentioned that. Were you pondering putting the open frame supply in the chassis? I figured you would mount it externally.



if i was going to use it i would have mounted it under the hard drive rack but im not sure if it would fit. 

my other idea was to get a 400w 12v dc psu and run the graphics card and a pico psu for the motherboard



Lazzer408 said:


> What's the 120w brick going to run you?



what do u mean?


----------



## Lazzer408 (Nov 18, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> if i was going to use it i would have mounted it under the hard drive rack but im not sure if it would fit.
> 
> my other idea was to get a 400w 12v dc psu and run the graphics card and a pico psu for the motherboard
> 
> ...



What was the cost?


----------



## Geofrancis (Nov 18, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> What was the cost?



£16 inc delivery from china


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## Geofrancis (Dec 5, 2009)

got a bit of an update i made a new front for case out of card board so i can use it as a template . so the lcd is mounted along with 2 usb ports underneath it and i still have to install the leds for the power supply status. ive decided to leave the stock buttons for now i probibly will change them eventualy.







i have found a strange problem when i turn on pci-e 2.0. i start getting random BSOD's when starting the computer. now i can only start the computer with it off and becasue i only have a pci-e 4x link it takes about 20fps off me in games. 

i done a few measurements with a killawatt meter on the 2 power supplys and with a prime 95 + furmark load it was pulling 205w from the main psu and 83w from the external one. so it very close the max power of the internal 200w psu.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 7, 2009)

Geofrancis said:


> got a bit of an update i made a new front for case out of card board so i can use it as a template . so the lcd is mounted along with 2 usb ports underneath it and i still have to install the leds for the power supply status. ive decided to leave the stock buttons for now i probibly will change them eventualy.
> 
> http://i45.tinypic.com/24n4qi9.jpg
> 
> ...



cardboard ftw.

Is their any wattage difference when you turn on 2.0?


----------



## Geofrancis (Dec 7, 2009)

Lazzer408 said:


> cardboard ftw.
> 
> Is their any wattage difference when you turn on 2.0?



i havnt had a chance to check as it bsod's straight away. i removed four of my hard drives and unplugged anything not essential and it did the same. anyway i have bought a 9600gso for some cuda action and to lower the power consumption a little.


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## Geofrancis (Dec 19, 2009)

Got the 9600gso installed and it worked for a few days then the bsod's returned so ive took the card out and im going to get a new itx case that will take a micro atx psu for the phenom/mobo/hd4850. None of this dual psu hassle and put my intel atom board back in the 200w case.


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## smashed_99cbr (Dec 20, 2009)

seems like a lot of work and a lot of trouble... not to mention silly... with no real benefits to speak of


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## Geofrancis (Dec 20, 2009)

smashed_99cbr said:


> seems like a lot of work and a lot of trouble... not to mention silly... with no real benefits to speak of



what are you on about?


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## Geofrancis (Dec 20, 2009)

the case that im looking at is this one 
http://www.ksn-online.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=7530





that case is smaller and will let me use a normal micro atx power supply that is much quieter and the 200w power supply is not powerfull enough for a  decent gaming computer. 

i seen 500w micro atx power supplys but they are too cheap to be any good. so i was thinking of getting this one
 350w Be Quiet BN134 SFX microATX PSU
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/350w-Be-Quiet-BN134-SFX-uATX-PSU

is there any more decent micro atx power supplys out there?


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