# Advise on SSD



## Chicken Patty (Feb 2, 2010)

Hello everyone,

I'm basically just looking for a SSD to install windows on.  I don't want to break my wallet so be gentle. 

Any recommendations?  This one had caught my eye...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820183254


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## mlee49 (Feb 2, 2010)

The read/write speeds on it are not very good.  

Read: up to 134MB/s
Write: up to 90 MB/s

As compared to the next price up(at 64GB) A-Data's 64GB

Read: up to 230MB/s
Write: up to 150MB/s

Noticeable improvements and $50 price increase.  Thats *70%* better reads, nearly *60%* better writes and at 40% of the price jump. Worth the extra imo.

Jumping up from there causes more price increase for less preformance.


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## Chicken Patty (Feb 2, 2010)

mlee49 said:


> The read/write speeds on it are not very good.
> 
> Read: up to 134MB/s
> Write: up to 90 MB/s
> ...



Good point.  I'll keep this one in mind as I do some more research and gather some more ideas.  Thanks bro


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## Asylum (Feb 2, 2010)

Grab you 2 of these and put them in Raid 0 so you can get some real speed out of these things.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393


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## Zenith (Feb 2, 2010)

I have 2 Intels X25G2, 80GB and 40GB version, silent and efficient.


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## KieX (Feb 2, 2010)

Asylum said:


> Grab you 2 of these and put them in Raid 0 so you can get some real speed out of these things.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393



I'd go with the OCZ Asylum suggested or even the Intel X25V. Get one for now if there is a cost factor involved and then if you want more speed get a second and RAID 0 them.

The random read/write of small files is what really makes for a fast OS SSD, it's not as if you're gonna spend all your computing hours copying and pasting folders. So don't pay too much attention to those r/w speeds.

(I'll admit I am biased toward the Intel because I own one and know how good they are)

EDIT: Thought I'd try and be useful by giving you the link to the review: http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531&p=25 Mind you some of the drives are now older, but I'm sure Intel have continued the trend with their V series, that's just a matter of another review to (dis)prove me


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## DirectorC (Feb 2, 2010)

That Intel VALUE series is turdy slow.  35MB sequential write?  Almost every other SSD out there poops on that.  Even in RAID0 that is two turds that make up one turd twice the size.  No.  You need one of those OCZ Vertex drives.


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## Hayder_Master (Feb 2, 2010)

mlee49 said:


> The read/write speeds on it are not very good.
> 
> Read: up to 134MB/s
> Write: up to 90 MB/s
> ...



+1



Asylum said:


> Grab you 2 of these and put them in Raid 0 so you can get some real speed out of these things.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393



i think i don't agree with you about this, one SSD is better, it's same price but with one SSD can avoid raid0 problems also less power



here is some good options 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220449
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220447
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211420
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233090
and this one look cheap 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820322013

don't forget most important thing is the speed, other thing is the brand if you check you find most expensive SSD's the samsung brand


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## Chicken Patty (Feb 2, 2010)

So far The Corsair and the A-Data have caught my eye in price/performance ratio.


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## PaulieG (Feb 2, 2010)

Cp, Yhpm


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## t_ski (Feb 2, 2010)

Asylum said:


> Grab you 2 of these and put them in Raid 0 so you can get some real speed out of these things.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393



I love my OCZ's and highly recommend them.



hayder.master said:


> i think i don't agree with you about this, one SSD is better, it's same price but with one SSD can avoid raid0 problems also less power
> 
> don't forget most important thing is the speed, other thing is the brand if you check you find most expensive SSD's the samsung brand



I aggree that speed is the most important thing, but I see no reason not to do a raid array on these.  I have three drives in a raid 0 array for my OS and games (downloads and other files are on the server) and have no preoblems what-so-ever.  660MB/s reads and <.1ms access times blow away my old 4-drive HDD array.

CP, it would help us if we knew your budget (or at least your max).


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## Chicken Patty (Feb 2, 2010)

Well I'm really only looking for one drive since I have a 500GB for games an programs, and 2x1TB's in RAID for my files/documents.   My budget is between is about $250-300.


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## PaulieG (Feb 2, 2010)

Chicken Patty said:


> Well I'm really only looking for one drive since I have a 500GB for games an programs, and 2x1TB's in RAID for my files/documents.   My budget is between is about $250-300.



You really don't need to spend that much for a good OS SSD.


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## Chicken Patty (Feb 2, 2010)

I know, any recommendations?


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## digibucc (Feb 2, 2010)

I got one of these a few months ago
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820157021&Tpk=dane%20elec

to replace my OCZ Vertex.  the stutter on that was horrible.

the above link is to a Dane Elec package, that has an 80GB Intel SM25... a $270+ dollar ssd, with a 1.8->2.5" adapter, and a 2.5" usb case. for $240.  so you save $30 , get an intel, and some parts with it.  i have been loving it.


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## DarkEgo (Feb 2, 2010)

digibucc said:


> I got one of these a few months ago
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820157021&Tpk=dane%20elec
> 
> to replace my OCZ Vertex.  the stutter on that was horrible.
> ...



G1, no trim. Not a problem if you plan on getting two for RAID but G1's can commonly be found for $170 or cheaper.


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## digibucc (Feb 2, 2010)

ahh i see.  thought it might be too good to be true...

but i have to say, on 7 x64 it's faster than the vertex was without the stutter. PC goes cold to desktop in under 30 seconds.  and i have a lot of crap on boot.

thanks for the info though...


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## Duffman (Feb 2, 2010)

subscribed

this is exactly what I want to do


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## DarkEgo (Feb 2, 2010)

My vote goes to an Intel drive. Any of them would work fine, even the Value (x25-v) series. Either that or a Vertex/ Ultradrive/ anything not JMicron. But Intel are the best.


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## PaulieG (Feb 2, 2010)

I got a special deal on these drives. I'm running one right now, and it's really fast for the price. Indilix firmware too. Just snagged one for CP. 

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name...db8c2c0b879df9126dde9aa9c6052453f2377eeca737e


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## Chicken Patty (Feb 2, 2010)

As Paul stated, I bought one from him.  Thanks for all the help and advise guys


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## digibucc (Feb 2, 2010)

i must have gotten a rebate...as i said it was last year.  you are right though, they do look to be good drives with the best price available...and you know your ..stuff. sorry bout that.

regardless, SSDs are awesome, and you will love it, i promise


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## Chicken Patty (Feb 2, 2010)

Is the vertex still that price?


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## PaulieG (Feb 2, 2010)

digibucc said:


> i know it's cheaper but $200 for 64GB?  I got my 60GB vertex for like $130 a year ago.   No offense but you paid more for less, when a little more cash would have gotten a lot more bang for the buck.
> 
> regardless, SSDs are awesome, and you will love it, i promise



Really? I'd love to see the link. Also, check the read/write times. You won't find better read/write times on a SSD at this price, unless you find something with a massive MIR.

Oh, and CP and I paid $175 a piece for them. 

Newegg
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227394


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## El Fiendo (Feb 2, 2010)

Seeming how CP's question is seemingly solved, and I didn't think the sub-forum needed two threads titled 'Advice on SSD' both at the top of the list, I'll post a thread ninja in here. If its wholly unacceptable, please hit me with a hammer and I'll correct it.


Can anyone tell me about this drive? I've been searching reviews, but I can't seem to find much on it. It'd be used as an OS drive.



It might be something for CP to look at as well. It's currently $82 at NCIXUS.com. 

I found some performance numbers, but they're not from a review so I can't say if they're legit:

CrystalDiskMark 100mb, OCZSSD2-2SLD120G, AMD 3.2ghz x2, AMD SB750 SATA2
READ
Seq. 250.4mb/s
512k 184.2mb/s
__4k 26.0mb/s

WRITE
Seq. 172.3mb/s
512k 159.0mb/s
__4k 10.9mb/s

CrystalDiskMark 100mb, OCZSSD2-2SLD120G, intel t1350 1.86ghz Solo, ich7 SATA
READ
Seq. 128.7mb/s
512k 116.4mb/s
__4k 26.2mb/s

WRITE
Seq. 126.8mb/s
512k 125.9mb/s
__4k 10.5mb/s


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## Chicken Patty (Feb 2, 2010)

Not a problem with me.


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## Duffman (Feb 2, 2010)

How big is too big for an OS drive?  I have three Samsung 500gb drives in RAID 10 for storage.


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## n-ster (Feb 2, 2010)

Paulieg said:


> I got a special deal on these drives. I'm running one right now, and it's really fast for the price. Indilix firmware too. Just snagged one for CP.
> 
> http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name...db8c2c0b879df9126dde9aa9c6052453f2377eeca737e



these are better than OCZ vertex in almost every angle... and nicely priced 

is there a chance I can get one for 175$? xD

Doesn't Fits have a pair of these ?


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## n-ster (Feb 2, 2010)

El Fiendo said:


> Seeming how CP's question is seemingly solved, and I didn't think the sub-forum needed two threads titled 'Advice on SSD' both at the top of the list, I'll post a thread ninja in here. If its wholly unacceptable, please hit me with a hammer and I'll correct it.
> 
> 
> Can anyone tell me about this drive? I've been searching reviews, but I can't seem to find much on it. It'd be used as an OS drive.
> ...



The ocz Solid 1 series had bad stuttering problems etc, the Solid 2 should have fixed that but from what I've seen, it isn't that great, though it can be an ok SSD...


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## Carl2 (Feb 5, 2010)

Use these numbers and do a search  OCZSSD2-2SLD30G,  OCZ has been having sales all over, just missed one for a 120 GB version of that drive, it's the value series.
Carl2


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## INFRNL (Feb 11, 2010)

n-ster said:


> these are better than OCZ vertex in almost every angle... and nicely priced
> 
> is there a chance I can get one for 175$? xD
> 
> Doesn't Fits have a pair of these ?



Do you have proof that these are better than the Vertex, link?



n-ster said:


> The ocz Solid 1 series had bad stuttering problems etc, the Solid 2 should have fixed that but from what I've seen, it isn't that great, though it can be an ok SSD...



I was reading somewhere that the Solid 2 series is better than the Vertex and uses intel nand I believe. i will have to remember where I saw it. I think its got a new controller as well

Today there is a good deal on the 60GB Agility, but not sure if its worth it to get one now or wait a litle longer for the newer drives? I also hear the new Corsair C300 is a smoking SSD


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## n-ster (Feb 11, 2010)

INFRNL said:


> Do you have proof that these are better than the Vertex, link?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't remember where sorry, where would be that 60gb Agility deal? I've never heard Solid 2 being better than Vertex though


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## INFRNL (Feb 11, 2010)

OCZ Agility 60GB@ ZZF 200-$50 rebate-$20 using ebillme; $130 after rebate. Theres a code for ebillme posted on slickdeals.

I may be mistaken, but I thought the solid 2 drives were the newest to the family. I will post if i can find it again


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## n-ster (Feb 11, 2010)

agility is newer than vertex but not better, same goes for solid 2


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## INFRNL (Feb 11, 2010)

here are some quotes from various members from OCZ forum and Anandtech about Solid 2 performing as well or better than Agility or Vertex...:

Can't comment on the 30GB version but on the head to head benchmarks with Solid 2 vs Vertex or Solid 2 vs Agility (120GB and 60GB versions), the sequential write/read speed has actually been faster than the Vertex or Agility. The random speeds have been slower but not by a huge factor. The overall AS score has been better on the Solid 2 than either the Vertex or Agility, even where both drives are used in the same system to test (one at a time with fresh install). According to AnandTech, the read/write specs were thrown out there just to get the drive to market and that actual read/write speeds would most likely be higher. That seems to be the case here.

Beautiful benches from a 120GB Solid 2

All the benches that I've seen from 60GB and 120GB versions have either tied or have been higher than the Vertex/Agility benches. I understand that system components might be the difference but a pattern is emerging, IMO. 

Damn, that kicks my Vertex to the curb and cost over $40 less!!!

I can come up with more info if needed


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## Chris_Ramseyer (Feb 11, 2010)

I have some nice SSDs for sale in the forums. For the most part Indilinx drives are Indilinx drives. Even after they go in and use faster flash and DRAM they perform about the same in real world conditions.


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## techjunkie (Feb 11, 2010)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167025

Best bang for buck i can find out there. If you have the green you could always go raid for cheap


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## t_ski (Feb 11, 2010)

Here's another deal.  OCZ Agility Series 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227461&Tpk=N82E16820227461


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## INFRNL (Feb 13, 2010)

As tempting as the agility deals are, I think I am going to see what the new SSD's bring to the table in the next few weeks.

at this point I cannot miss what I cannot experience. I get by just fine with what I currently have so another month or whatever will not kill me


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## Canzara (Feb 13, 2010)

The solid 2 series doesn't support trim I don't think. Thats the biggest difference between it and the vertex/agility. Its an older model based on the original solid but using an indilinx controller rather then the flawed jmicron controller used in most of the gen 1 SSD's

I did alot of homework before buying mine.
Generally if you stay away from anything with the jmicron controller you shouldn't have stuttering problems as that was the flawed controller. Although, anything without trim will lose performance over time unless you find a third party app to "emulate" trim for you.
If you raid ANY SSD you will lose trim support as it is not supported under raid, therefore if you want to raid you need a 3rd party app to take care of trim for you.

I'm not sure if people understand the differences in how these drives work in comparison to platter type drives, but they are a little different to maintain. Not more difficult, just different. They also require different system settings to get peak performance, so be prepared to do some reading and experimenting.

You can still get a jmicron based SSD (gen1) and get good, even great performance using raid. These drives don't have the same issues under raid as they do using a single drive, however I don't think any of the gen1 drives have trim built in so thats something to consider.
Personally, I'd be all over the OCZ Vertex if it was me and had the cash. They might not be the absolute fastest, it just seemed when I was looking into these OCZ support was incredible for helping people. Even people that didn't have OCZ drives were on the OCZ forums getting help...I'm REAL big on support. I think most companies in the computer industry are pathetic for support, so I see something good I tend to steer that direction.
Hope this info helps someone.


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## INFRNL (Feb 13, 2010)

Solid 2 does support TRIM and I believe as stated before that it is newer than Vertex and Agility drives. http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/solid_state_drives/ocz_solid_2_series_sata_ii_2_5-ssd

I have seen many people and benchmarks showing better results than the agility & vertex drives.


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## fullinfusion (Feb 13, 2010)

can some one tell me wth trim is on a SSD?

I'm soon ready to order one but i need to know what it's for and what its for.

thanks


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## INFRNL (Feb 13, 2010)

its like garbage collection. Helps keep SSD running at top performance by basically keeping the drive cleaned up , etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM_(SSD_command)


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## Canzara (Feb 13, 2010)

INFRNL said:


> Solid 2 does support TRIM and I believe as stated before that it is newer than Vertex and Agility drives. http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/solid_state_drives/ocz_solid_2_series_sata_ii_2_5-ssd
> 
> I have seen many people and benchmarks showing better results than the agility & vertex drives.



My humble apologies, I didn't think what was stated was correct. But I looked it up and it is.


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## fullinfusion (Feb 13, 2010)

INFRNL said:


> its like garbage collection. Helps keep SSD running at top performance by basically keeping the drive cleaned up , etc
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM_(SSD_command)


nice and thank you.... but for my 2nd question.... im running Vista home 64 Premium and i have a WD 320g and or WD black 640 for storage after a SSD plantation, How big of a SSD should i get to be safe to have windows and a few other mis programs on it?


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## Chris_Ramseyer (Feb 13, 2010)

Indilinx drives with FW 1916 or above will have both GC and TRIM. This pretty much means you can run run RAID and not have to worry about it. Also, just about everyone is keeping on top of releasing FW updates so you are all set. Go find a low cost Barefoot drive, flash it and go to town.


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## Canzara (Feb 13, 2010)

quoted from OCZ technicians:
solid2 is slower than vertex, but still way faster than any spinner...in the end its what you can afford 

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?68834-Vertex-or-Solid2

newer or not, its not as fast.


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## PaulieG (Feb 13, 2010)

HighEndToys said:


> Indilinx drives with FW 1916 or above will have both GC and TRIM. This pretty much means you can run run RAID and not have to worry about it. Also, just about everyone is keeping on top of releasing FW updates so you are all set. Go find a low cost Barefoot drive, flash it and go to town.



What about the build quality? Just like any other product, some are just made better. With SSD's would it be the quality of the nand etc?


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## Chris_Ramseyer (Feb 13, 2010)

To be honest who really cares how fast your data transfers are. I mean will you really notice a lot of difference between one and the other in day to day, real world use. I mean let's be real, would you really care if your computer boots 2 seconds faster. Let's break it down to price vs. performance, how much are you, as an average user /gamer / enthusiast going to pay to cut those two seconds?

If you can live with only 80GB then the Intel SSDs are the way to go for what like 240 now. I personally can't even have an ejoyable notebook experience with 80GB, that puts me in the Indilinx 128 to 256 range. This is the same place where most people are. Intel's 10 channel controller is faster than Indilinx's 8 channel in every real world test. SandForce's 1200 should be faster than Intel's but to be honest no one has tested one yet. I have tested two 16 channel SF 1500 drives with MLC flash and it was the fastest thing I had ever seen until Marvell hooked Crucial up with the RealSSD C300. As of right now the C300 is the faster MFer on the planet in both SATA 3G and 6G. There aren't any SATA 3G numbers published yet but there will be soon 

SSDs are all about access times and that is what is important to remember is you are looking for the best bang for the buck. Every Indilinx, Intel, Marvell / Crucial, Toshiba and Samsung controlled SSD will blow your mind if you have never used an SSD before. You will see and feel it at first and then just get use to it. After a month you really feel anxiety using a platter drive. I swear, you are sitting there like WTF, why is this bitch taking so GD long to do everything, is there something wrong? 

Access times, that is why hard core storage guys like myself were using 15K SCSI drives 8-10 years ago. With those drives we were measuring access time in milliseconds but with SSDs we are measuring access time by the tenth of a millisecond. They all do it and it is the access time that makes them FEEL so fast. Most of the time you are not pushing 200 MB/s read or write.

What I am really saying is there is really no reason to split hairs about one specific drive over another, they are all faster than what you have now and they are all really impressive. Just run PC Mark Vantage, HDD Test and compare your numbers to these and see what I mean.


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## Chris_Ramseyer (Feb 13, 2010)

Paulieg said:


> What about the build quality? Just like any other product, some are just made better. With SSD's would it be the quality of the nand etc?



The Crucial C300 uses some of the funkiest flash on the market. It is built to last but it is considered "slow" compared to others. Hell I think it was first make for thumb drives. The controller is where the performance is at.


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## Chris_Ramseyer (Feb 13, 2010)

I have tested every single flash option that is available for the Barefoot to date. There are some speed differences but you can't tell in real world use which is which.


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## PaulieG (Feb 13, 2010)

HighEndToys said:


> I have tested every single flash option that is available for the Barefoot to date. There are some speed differences but you can't tell in real world use which is which.



How many different Indiilix controllers are there for mass produced consumer SSD's? Is Barefoot considered the best?


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## Chris_Ramseyer (Feb 13, 2010)

There are two revisions of the first one, they do about the same. Then they made one called the BareFoot "ECO". The ECO allows for Intel / Micron 34nm flash, the same stuff used on the C300. The only one that I know of that uses the ECO that you can get in the US is the G.Skill Falcon II. There are two or three reviews of it online, I am running out of the door so I can't link you right now but it performs a little slower in HD Tach, HD Tune but real world performance is really close to the other Barefoot drives. The ECO drives are cheaper because they use lower cost flash. They are also hard to find because of the cost. For the most part, G.Skill has been able to undercut just about everyone on price for the same drive.

If you look at the pics in most of the reviews that show just a bare PCB you will see that just about everyone uses the same PCB. There are a few, a very small few that make their own PCB. They all use the same assortments of flash, there are like what, 5 or 6 different combos (no time to rattle them all off...typing fast) and they all use the same Indilinx controller except for the rare few that use the ECO.


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