# AMD Ryzen 9 4900HS Torpedoes Intel's Core i9 Mobile Lineup, Fastest Mobile Processor



## btarunr (Mar 30, 2020)

Reviews of AMD's flagship mobile processor, the Ryzen 9 4900HS went live today, and the verdict is clear. Intel has lost both performance and battery-efficiency leadership over its most lucrative computing segment: mobile client computing. In a Hardware Unboxed review comparing the 4900H to Intel's current Core i9 flagship, the i9-9880H, the AMD chip at its stock 45 W TDP beats the Intel one even with the Intel chip configured to 90 W cTDP. 

The 4900HS posts 11.9% higher CineBench R20 score (both chips are 8-core/16-thread) when the Intel chip is bolstered with 90 W cTDP, and a whopping 33% faster when the i9-9980H is at its stock settings, and 54% faster when its capped at 35 W cTDP. It also ends up over 150% faster than AMD's last fastest mobile processor, the 12 nm "Picasso" based Ryzen 7 3750H. The story repeats with CineBench R15 (4900H being 34% faster than stock i9-9880H), 18% faster at Handbrake HEVC, 25% faster at Blender "Classroom," and 35% faster at 7-Zip benchmark. The AMD chip lags behind by 12% in the less-parallelized Photoshop. On creativity apps that do scale with cores, such as Premiere "Warp Stabilizer 4K," the 4900HS is 12.6% faster. Gaming performance remains an even split between the two chips. Find several more interesting test results and commentary in the Hardware Unboxed presentation here. Intel has already announced a response to the 4900HS in the form of the i9-10980HK.



 

 

 



*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## EarthDog (Mar 30, 2020)

Well done, AMD!!!


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## KarymidoN (Mar 30, 2020)

"The AMD chip at its stock 45 W TDP beats the Intel one even with the Intel chip configured to 90 W cTDP"

holy sheet waiting for more reviews but this looks bad for intel.


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## R0H1T (Mar 30, 2020)

The* HS models have a TDP of 35W *though I'm not sure if they can do "cTDP" up to 45 W, which is redundant anyway, on the other hand regular 4xxxH can be specced to do 35W in a suitable chassis.


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## chodaboy19 (Mar 30, 2020)

Wow! mobile was intel's last bastion of performance. Intel's next gen can't come soon enough.


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## xkm1948 (Mar 30, 2020)

This is not even Zen2 right?


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## R0H1T (Mar 30, 2020)

What? Of course it is


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## ppn (Mar 30, 2020)

they configured nothing. undervolting the intel to 4.0Ghz on all cores must be doable.


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## KarymidoN (Mar 30, 2020)

xkm1948 said:


> This is not even Zen2 right?



It is in fact ZEN 2


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## xkm1948 (Mar 30, 2020)

KarymidoN said:


> It is in fact ZEN 2




Nvm then!


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## R0H1T (Mar 30, 2020)

ppn said:


> they configured nothing. undervolting the intel to 4.0Ghz on all cores must be doable.


Newsflash, UV on Intel is nuked with latest *ucode updates* probably across the board.


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## londiste (Mar 30, 2020)

Since 35W keeps getting emphasized, AMD takes further pages out of Intel's playbook:


> As for clock speeds and boost behavior, let’s take a look. From a cold start in our Handbrake AVX workload, the Ryzen 9 4900HS consistently boosted up to around 65W of power for a few seconds achieving 4 GHz boost clocks all core, before dropping down to 54W for a longer sustained period, with clocks around 3.7 GHz. Eventually the CPU settles down to 35W to provide 3.2 GHz all-core, just above this processor’s 3.0 GHz base clock. The boost period can vary depending on how warm the system is, but from a cold start we were generally seeing at least 2 minutes of ~53W boost which is generous.


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## notb (Mar 30, 2020)

I wonder if this sudden surge of enthusiast-favourite CPU brand will make reviewers learn how to test laptops.

At very least, they could say which laptop is used with each CPU.
It's certainly not in the text:








						AMD Ryzen 9 4900HS Review
					

Mobile computing has become the next big target at AMD with its new series of Ryzen 4000 APUs. Today we have the first retail Ryzen 9 4900HS...




					www.techspot.com
				



Youtube video description says which laptops were used, but without the CPU info...


R0H1T said:


> The* HS models have a TDP of 35W *though I'm not sure if they can do "cTDP" up to 45 W, which is redundant anyway, on the other hand regular 4xxxH can be specced to do 35W in a suitable chassis.


Here's your 35W:


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## R0H1T (Mar 30, 2020)

londiste said:


> Since 35W keeps getting emphasized, AMD takes further pages out of Intel's playbook:


PL1 & PL2 limits on notebook are well known, otherwise 5.3GHz on any notebook chip would be nigh impossible! Basically the chip has to boost above their "TDP" limit for short periods especially to allow for high ST performance.


notb said:


> Here's your 35W:


Ok, your point?


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## londiste (Mar 30, 2020)

xkm1948 said:


> This is not even Zen2 right?


Zen2 vs Zen+, 4900HS vs 3750H:


Spoiler


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## EarthDog (Mar 30, 2020)

londiste said:


> Zen2 vs Zen+, 4900HS vs 3750H:


New instruction sets FTW...?


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## londiste (Mar 30, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> New instruction sets FTW...?


Not instruction sets. 4 additional cores, AVX2 and 7nm.


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## TheLostSwede (Mar 30, 2020)

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-Zephyrus-G14-Ryzen-9-GeForce-RTX-2060-Max-Q-Laptop-Review-Kicking-Core-i9-to-the-Curb.457817.0.html


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## EarthDog (Mar 30, 2020)

londiste said:


> Not instruction sets. 4 additional cores, AVX2 and 7nm.


Isn't AVX 2 an instruction set?


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## qcmadness (Mar 30, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Isn't AVX 2 an instruction set?



Zen and Zen 2 both support AVX2. They differ in throughput only.


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## ARF (Mar 30, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Well done, AMD!!!





KarymidoN said:


> "The AMD chip at its stock 45 W TDP beats the Intel one even with the Intel chip configured to 90 W cTDP"
> 
> holy sheet waiting for more reviews but this looks bad for intel.





chodaboy19 said:


> Wow! mobile was intel's last bastion of performance. Intel's next gen can't come soon enough.



Everyone excited but MSI will come and say 

Excuse us, guys, but we don't work with AMD APUs.
Why?! Because:

We don't want to experiment with unknown hardware
We had bad previous experience with AMD products
We receive payments from Intel









						MSI CEO Dishes on Intel Shortage, AMD Growth, Taking Share from Apple
					

New MSI CEO Charles Chiang said Intel has made desktop CPUs its lowest priority during shortage, tariffs are raising prices by about 5 percent and Apple is vulnerable.




					www.tomshardware.com


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## IceShroom (Mar 30, 2020)

xkm1948 said:


> This is not even Zen2 right?


Bristol Ridge -> Excavator
Raven Ridge -> Zen
Picasso -> Zen+
Renior -> Zen2


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## Darmok N Jalad (Mar 30, 2020)

I didn’t have much doubt that the performance would be there, as the process advantage should play out. Intel is probably pushing its 14nm+++ beyond the optimum power mark to keep performance gains (and sales) coming. What I am the most curious about is battery life and power efficiency. If that is good, then AMD has finally arrived in the mobile space. Again, with a process advantage, there’s no reason this shouldn’t be the case, but that is all in their execution.


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## Daven (Mar 30, 2020)

AMD has definitely made ultraportable laptops exciting for the first time with 8 cores, good IPC and good IGP in 15W. Up until recently, most of these kinds of laptops utilized dual cores and horrible IGP at 15W and lower. Some more expensive ones received quad cores and a little better graphics (Iris) but it wasn't that exciting until now.


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## Xuper (Mar 30, 2020)

Battery life among all reviews :


			https://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Battery-Page.png
		



			https://images.hothardware.com/contentimages/article/2954/content/battery-life-asus-rog-zephyrus-g14.png
		



			https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/6hPiit6d3p4iC6LXTaxxDU-650-80.png
		



			https://hexus.net/media/uploaded/2020/3/8ec7191f-c434-4869-85ac-3dc3e82b8969.png
		



			https://hexus.net/media/uploaded/2020/3/d0bc753d-ec5d-43ab-a3a5-b3132f9d588b.png
		



			https://hexus.net/media/uploaded/2020/3/44303c92-ad06-460c-ba71-d3bf80773e23.png
		



			https://hexus.net/media/uploaded/2020/3/e65b0ac4-0567-422d-b19c-fea57d21156a.png
		



			https://images.idgesg.net/images/article/2020/03/asus_rog_zephyrus_g14_video_run_down-100836710-orig.jpg


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## Mats (Mar 30, 2020)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> What I am the most curious about is battery life and power efficiency.


It's efficient alright.


2D power consumption seems bad for this model at least. *Edit:* Only this site says it's bad, tho.


			https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-Zephyrus-G14-Ryzen-9-GeForce-RTX-2060-Max-Q-Laptop-Review-Kicking-Core-i9-to-the-Curb.457817.0.html#toc-energy-management-high-consumption-when-idling


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## ShurikN (Mar 30, 2020)

Amazing performance. In certain scenarios not even a 90w Intel part can match the 4900. The R5 is gonna be the new mid range champ. A $2500 i9 laptop couldn't match the $1500 Asus. Imagine what will happen in the $900 range

The funny thing is, Intel's 10th gen H series is the same as 9th just with a small bump in boost speeds. It's getting slaughtered and it's not even out yet. On the other hand 10nm can't hit those clock speeds as 14nm. They basically don't have anything to beat AMD until their own 7nm.


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## INSTG8R (Mar 30, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-Zephyrus-G14-Ryzen-9-GeForce-RTX-2060-Max-Q-Laptop-Review-Kicking-Core-i9-to-the-Curb.457817.0.html


It’s kinda. neat to see this combo. I have  17” Turion X2 /8800M  Laptop in my closet.


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## midnightoil (Mar 30, 2020)

ppn said:


> they configured nothing. undervolting the intel to 4.0Ghz on all cores must be doable.



But then it'll get even more annihilated in absolute performance ... and it's still not likely to hold 4.0Ghz across all cores in heavy, heavily threaded workloads at 45W, unless you have a golden bin chip.

Intel's only way out of any of this - desktop, workstation, laptop, server / HPC - is to hope their 7nm EUV process is an absolute slam dunk, and that it arrives in volume no later than Q4 2021.  But that seems pretty optimistic.  They'll also then need to rapidly move to 5nm and below, since TSMC and Samsung certainly are and will.

Also, I don't think Jim Keller's replacement for the Core architecture is due until late 2022 at the earliest - 2023 more likely ...


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## R0H1T (Mar 30, 2020)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> I didn’t have much doubt that the performance would be there, as the process advantage should play out. Intel is probably pushing its 14nm+++ beyond the optimum power mark to keep performance gains (and sales) coming. What I am the most curious about is *battery life* and power efficiency. If that is good, then AMD has finally arrived in the mobile space. Again, with a process advantage, there’s no reason this shouldn’t be the case, but that is all in their execution.


Most reviews have them at excellent, class leading numbers ~


Spoiler





























{/spoiler}


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## phanbuey (Mar 30, 2020)

That chip gets the same cine-bench multi score as my 8700K at 5.1Ghz with tweaked ram... at a 1/3 of the power.

Amazing.


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## TheLostSwede (Mar 30, 2020)

Xuper said:


> Battery life among all reviews :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Please use the image linking option instead of just pasting links to images into a post.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 30, 2020)

KarymidoN said:


> waiting for more reviews but this looks bad for intel.


Yes it does. 

AMD is getting on it. Didn't see this coming.


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## ARF (Mar 30, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Most reviews have them at excellent, class leading numbers ~



This is something special. Some very new power saving feature. New chipset driver?


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## ppn (Mar 30, 2020)

Where is the chipset, does it have any. Will we see any desktop SKus. This is almost a 9900K as it is.


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## ARF (Mar 30, 2020)

ppn said:


> Where is the chipset, does it have any. Will we see any desktop SKus. This is almost a 9900K as it is.



It can't have 3 times longer battery life with CPU throttling only. It must have heavy power saving on the whole notebook.
The chipset is on the mainboard, as this is a non-chiplet design.


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## Darmok N Jalad (Mar 30, 2020)

ARF said:


> This is something special. Some very new power saving feature. New chipset driver?


Infinity Fabric was the idle power hog on pre-Zen2, as it had to run at the same clock as the memory. They decoupled IF/memory frequency, so now the chip idles much better.


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## EarthDog (Mar 30, 2020)

ppn said:


> Will we see any desktop SKus


Ryzen 3000 series is already out. These are zen2 chips.


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## TheLostSwede (Mar 30, 2020)

Some additional comparisons between a few different notebook models, as well as one with the 4600H.








						AMD Ryzen 7 4800H benchmarks & review, vs Ryzen 5 4600H, Ryzen 7 4800HS and Ryzen 7 3750H
					

For years now, AMD barely mattered in the laptop space, and even if their platforms have improved in recent years, they've only been the lower-tier budget



					www.ultrabookreview.com
				






EarthDog said:


> Ryzen 3000 series is already out. These are zen2 chips.


I guess he's waiting for desktop APUs?


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## IceShroom (Mar 30, 2020)

ppn said:


> Where is the chipset, does it have any.


Most mobile AMD processor dont use any chipset. Most AMD's SoC has enough I/O for laptop, so it does not need separate chipset.



> Will we see any desktop SKus. This is almost a 9900K as it is.


Desktop Renior! probably yes though with upto certen core configuration like 6C/12T.


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## R0H1T (Mar 30, 2020)

If it's 8c/16t on mobile then you'll see the full lineup for desktops as well. No reason for AMD to reserve the top end just for mobile, though it may take some time given the huge demand for *TSMC 7nm* atm ~ which admittedly will tank after the nCoV pandemic


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## Aldain (Mar 30, 2020)

To top it off, this is not the FASTEST amd mobile chip, that would be the 4900 H.. the 45 W part. Intel just lost the mobile space. GLORIOUS!


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## TheLostSwede (Mar 30, 2020)

Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 review: AMD has rewritten the rules
					

AMD finally challenges Intel for the gaming gold.




					www.theverge.com


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## Cheeseball (Mar 30, 2020)

I'm waiting for Best Buy to open up the orders for the Zephyrus G14.  

I'm still contemplating on waiting for future laptops with at least a RTX 2070 (or even the SUPER variants), but at 14", a good enough RTX 2060 Max-Q and being able to charge through USB-C (65W PD)? I'll probably bite.


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## ARF (Mar 30, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 review: AMD has rewritten the rules
> 
> 
> AMD finally challenges Intel for the gaming gold.
> ...



No webcam? The CPU can become hot?!

Why did they make this 14" and how will you game on it? Using a proper monitor?

Just wow!


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## phanbuey (Mar 30, 2020)

The no webcam thing pretty much kills it for me.  But I am more excited for what this means for the other laptops that will come out after.


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## Rahnak (Mar 30, 2020)

I have to admit I did not see this big of a result coming, especially the battery life. Kudos to AMD.


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## TheLostSwede (Mar 30, 2020)

In Swedish, but they have nice graphs...








						Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 – Ryzen 9 4900HS och Geforce RTX 2060 Max-Q - Test
					

Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 är en kompakt bärbar speldator, som med AMD "Renoir" utlovar världsledande prestanda i sin storleksklass.




					www.sweclockers.com


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## DeathtoGnomes (Mar 30, 2020)

3 snaps in a 'zee' formation!


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## Mats (Mar 30, 2020)

Asus surely cut some corners to get to that price point, CPU and GPU are two big exceptions.

Slow display, no camera, weird, pulsing fans, single slot RAM. The design is great tho.


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## TheLostSwede (Mar 30, 2020)

Mats said:


> Asus surely cut some corners to get to that price point, CPU and GPU are two big exceptions.
> 
> Slow display, no camera, weird, pulsing fans, single slot RAM. The design is great tho.


It has 8 or 16GB soldered down, plus a slot, so it's not single channel.
As for the camera, it's an "up-sell" to this:








						ROG Eye | Gaming Streaming Kits｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
					

USB web camera with Full HD 1080p streaming at 60fps, Face AE technology, beamforming microphone for better live-streaming video and audio quality, and a compact and foldable design that mounts easily and securely on laptops.



					www.asus.com


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## R0H1T (Mar 30, 2020)

Huh, what a scam probably costs much as like their *overpriced* routers


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## Vya Domus (Mar 30, 2020)

londiste said:


> Not instruction sets. 4 additional cores, AVX2 and 7nm.



The number of cores and instructions are the same. Zen 2 simply has twice the FP throughput because the vector FPUs have been doubled in width.


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## QUANTUMPHYSICS (Mar 30, 2020)

The vast majority of buyers will still aim for intel and Nvidia.


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## Imsochobo (Mar 30, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Huh, what a scam probably costs much as like their *overpriced* routers



somehow 1400 $, 1920x1080 120 HZ, 4900HS, RTX 2060 max-q, 1tb 660p, 16gb ram, wifi6.. (not sure on the battery)
but.. yeah... you probably pay a bit more with the best battery but it's nearly the same as a router.


Also: repeating summarized things as we're on a new page so people can read this hopefully..
It is zen2,
it has 8mb total L3 vs 32mb on desktop
no pci-e 4.0
it has no chipset, it is a SOC (ALL INCLUDED!!!!)
it is 35 W not 45W.
it is using turbo of 60 W~ before going to 35 W for steady state. (intel uses turbo like this too)


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## TheLostSwede (Mar 30, 2020)

More review links.








						ASUS Ryzen 4000H "Renoir" Gaming Laptops Review Roundup | VideoCardz.com
					

AMD Ryzen 4000, Notebooks, Review Roundup Today AMD lifts the embargo on Ryzen 4000H reviews. AMD Ryzen 4000H Reviews AMD Ryzen 4000H gaming laptops are here. The most popular laptop today is ROG




					videocardz.com


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## ARF (Mar 30, 2020)

QUANTUMPHYSICS said:


> The vast majority of buyers will still aim for intel and Nvidia.



There is really little to no sense whatsoever to do so.

The right path is AMD Ryzen + AMD Radeon..



TheLostSwede said:


> It has 8 or 16GB soldered down, plus a slot, so it's not single channel.
> As for the camera, it's an "up-sell" to this:
> 
> 
> ...



Configuration 8 GB soldered + 16 GB on the slot, 24 GB - will it be single or dual channel because of the different capacities?


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## Rahnak (Mar 30, 2020)

Imsochobo said:


> somehow 1400 $, 1920x1080 120 HZ, 4900HS, RTX 2060 max-q, 1tb 660p, 16gb ram, wifi6.. (not sure on the battery)
> but.. yeah... you probably pay a bit more with the best battery but it's nearly the same as a router.


R0H1T was talking about the ROG Eye webcam, not the laptop.


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## ARF (Mar 30, 2020)

AMD Ryzen 9 4900HS vs Intel 5.3 GHz Core i9-10980HK:


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## Mats (Mar 30, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> It has 8 or 16GB soldered down, plus a slot, so it's not single channel.


I didn't say it was. The reviews clearly shows that it's only one slot.


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## ARF (Mar 30, 2020)




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## R0H1T (Mar 30, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> R0H1T was talking about the ROG Eye webcam, not the laptop.


Yes, but I guess not everyone needs a webcam on their laptop like ~ well me. I barely use it though that's largely due to the sub 720p resolution & basically no practical use.


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## TheLostSwede (Mar 30, 2020)

Mats said:


> I didn't say it was. The reviews clearly shows that it's only one slot.
> View attachment 149795
> View attachment 149796


Those timings though...


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## ARF (Mar 30, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Those timings though...



Low-end, cheap memory modules.


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## IceShroom (Mar 30, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Those timings though...


Standard JEDEC timing.


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## EarthDog (Mar 30, 2020)

IceShroom said:


> Standard JEDEC timing.


Yep... that new 3200 MHz spec that came out last year... ick...


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## ARF (Mar 30, 2020)

Normally, the modules are CAS16 DDR4-3200, and most of the available sticks on the market are such..


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## John Naylor (Mar 30, 2020)

Won't pay attention to performance benchmarks that have no relevance to application performance.  As with 3900x vs 9900KF, far more often that not, application performance on apps most folks use every day see no benefit from these "press release" performance benchmarks.

Does anyone sit around waiting to choose a CPU until 7-Zip performance benchmarks come out ?     Why No Premier, PhotoShop, AutoCAD, office Suoites , gaming ?   3900x reportedly kicked 9900k to the cub and yet the 9900KF won in gaming, traded insignificant wins in Office apps, won in Photoshop and Premier and most important, won in our primary app AutoCAD.  Now certainly if our big apps were the ones that the 3900X excelled in like brain simulation, 7-Zip, virtual machines and game develpment, rendering / animation.... the 3900X is the obvious 
of course better choice ... but anyone who chooses a CPU on the bases of performance benchmarks in apps they don't use on a frequent basis isn't doing it right.


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## Mats (Mar 30, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Those timings though...


Yeah, call me old school but I prefer dual slots.


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## ARF (Mar 30, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> Won't pay attention to performance benchmarks that have no relevance to application performance.  As with 3900x vs 9900KF, far more often that not, application performance on apps most folks use every day see no benefit from these "press release" performance benchmarks.
> 
> Does anyone sit around waiting to choose a CPU until 7-Zip performance benchmarks come out ?     Why No Premier, PhotoShop, AutoCAD, office Suoites , gaming ?   3900x reportedly kicked 9900k to the cub and yet the 9900KF won in gaming, traded insignificant wins in Office apps, won in Photoshop and Premier and most important, won in our primary app AutoCAD.  Now certainly if our big apps were the ones that the 3900X excelled in like brain simulation, 7-Zip, virtual machines and game develpment, rendering / animation.... the 3900X is the obvious
> of course better choice ... but anyone who chooses a CPU on the bases of performance benchmarks in apps they don't use on a frequent basis isn't doing it right.



Here:





Here:












						Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 – Ryzen 9 4900HS och Geforce RTX 2060 Max-Q - Test - Prestandatester
					

Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 är en kompakt bärbar speldator, som med AMD "Renoir" utlovar världsledande prestanda i sin storleksklass.




					translate.google.com


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## Darmok N Jalad (Mar 30, 2020)

Mats said:


> I didn't say it was. The reviews clearly shows that it's only one slot.
> View attachment 149795
> View attachment 149796


What an odd configuration. I’d think they’d either go all soldered or all slot. Usually one slot sits under the keyboard, but not this one.


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## Mats (Mar 30, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> Won't pay attention to performance benchmarks that have no relevance to application performance.  As with 3900x vs 9900KF, far more often that not, application performance on apps most folks use every day see no benefit from these "press release" performance benchmarks.
> 
> Does anyone sit around waiting to choose a CPU until 7-Zip performance benchmarks come out ?     Why No Premier, PhotoShop, AutoCAD, office Suoites , gaming ?   3900x reportedly kicked 9900k to the cub and yet the 9900KF won in gaming, traded insignificant wins in Office apps, won in Photoshop and Premier and most important, won in our primary app AutoCAD.  Now certainly if our big apps were the ones that the 3900X excelled in like brain simulation, 7-Zip, virtual machines and game develpment, rendering / animation.... the 3900X is the obvious
> of course better choice ... but anyone who chooses a CPU on the bases of performance benchmarks in apps they don't use on a frequent basis isn't doing it right.


That was a bit different situation. The 3900X is faster thanks to having 8 more threads, and the 9900KF is faster because of higher clock speeds, lower latency.

This time around they have the same amount of threads, and Intel can't use their hot running Mhz advantage because it's mobile. At 35 W, that is.

The GE65 and the Aero 15 are both >2.2 kg, the G14 is 1.6 kg.


















ARF said:


> Everyone excited but MSI will come and say
> 
> Excuse us, guys, but we don't work with AMD APUs.


I'm not so sure about that.




__





						MSI Alpha 15 – 7nm Technology Gaming Laptop
					






					www.msi.com


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## Totally (Mar 30, 2020)

Imagine when this chip makes it into a less constrained chassis, 'tiger with wings' anyone?


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## B-Real (Mar 30, 2020)

Xuper said:


> Battery life among all reviews :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This with the given performance. It is incredible, really.



John Naylor said:


> Won't pay attention to performance benchmarks that have no relevance to application performance.  As with 3900x vs 9900KF, far more often that not, application performance on apps most folks use every day see no benefit from these "press release" performance benchmarks.
> 
> Does anyone sit around waiting to choose a CPU until 7-Zip performance benchmarks come out ?     Why No Premier, PhotoShop, AutoCAD, office Suoites , gaming ?   3900x reportedly kicked 9900k to the cub and yet the 9900KF won in gaming, traded insignificant wins in Office apps, won in Photoshop and Premier and most important, won in our primary app AutoCAD.  Now certainly if our big apps were the ones that the 3900X excelled in like brain simulation, 7-Zip, virtual machines and game develpment, rendering / animation.... the 3900X is the obvious
> of course better choice ... but anyone who chooses a CPU on the bases of performance benchmarks in apps they don't use on a frequent basis isn't doing it right.


This CPU just crushes the top Intel mobile CPUs and you are still ranting.


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## Cheeseball (Mar 31, 2020)

ARF said:


> No webcam? The CPU can become hot?!
> 
> Why did they make this 14" and how will you game on it? Using a proper monitor?
> 
> Just wow!



An integrated webcam would be useless when a streamer/collaborator would just use a higher-quality USB 3.0 device that you can freely position.

14" is a good portable size. I've been waiting for more powerful, compact solutions, similar to the Razer Blade Stealth with a GTX 1650.

The panel in this is a 144 Hz IPS, albeit slower response time. May not be used for competition, but it's still manageable for on-the-road gaming.



Mats said:


> That was a bit different situation. The 3900X is faster thanks to having 8 more threads, and the 9900KF is faster because of higher clock speeds, lower latency.
> 
> This time around they have the same amount of threads, and Intel can't use their hot running Mhz advantage because it's mobile. At 35 W, that is.
> 
> The GE65 and the Aero 15 are both >2.2 kg, the G14 is 1.6 kg.



Looks like that Gigabyte Aero 15 is throttled badly. The GE65 does have good thermals (similar to the Acer Predator Helios 300 with the same specs) from what I've read about it.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Mar 31, 2020)

Sadly the Zephyrus G14 is WAY too expensive in Sweden once you add the local markup and VAT. Was going to get one, but I can only afford the base config and I'm not interested in the GTX 1650 Max-Q. For some reason the Ryzen 5 4600H is not available with a better GPU option. Thanks Asus...


----------



## ARF (Mar 31, 2020)

Cheeseball said:


> An integrated webcam would be useless when a streamer/collaborator would just use a higher-quality USB 3.0 device that you can freely position.
> 
> 14" is a good portable size. I've been waiting for more powerful, compact solutions, similar to the Razer Blade Stealth with a GTX 1650.
> 
> The panel in this is a 144 Hz IPS, albeit slower response time. May not be used for competition, but it's still manageable for on-the-road gaming.



For a traveller who is a streamer as you've described, yes.
But for someone like me, these ones without a webcam are no-go. No integrated webcam, no fun, just more problems because you need to occupy a USB port.
Come on, look at how smartphones develop in recent years - top notch, integrated in the screen camera, integrated and invisible fingerprint scanner, etc beauties.

I need the webcam for messaging and chat apps.
Skype, conference calls, meetings, etc stuff.



TheLostSwede said:


> Sadly the Zephyrus G14 is WAY too expensive in Sweden once you add the local markup and VAT. Was going to get one, but I can only afford the base config and I'm not interested in the GTX 1650 Max-Q. For some reason the Ryzen 5 4600H is not available with a better GPU option. Thanks Asus...



You can always buy it in Germany or another country where it's cheaper. From some US states, you can take it with 0% VAT.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Mar 31, 2020)

ARF said:


> You can always buy it in Germany or another country where it's cheaper. From some US states, you can take it with 0% VAT.


Very funny dude...
 

On the other hand, it does come with a GTX 1650Ti, but is it the TU117 or TU116 based GPU? I thought it was the Max-Q, but apparently I was mistaken.


----------



## Cheeseball (Mar 31, 2020)

ARF said:


> For a traveller who is a streamer as you've described, yes.
> But for someone like me, these ones without a webcam are no-go. No integrated webcam, no fun, just more problems because you need to occupy a USB port.
> Come on, look at how smartphones develop in recent years - top notch, integrated in the screen camera, integrated and invisible fingerprint scanner, etc beauties.
> 
> ...



Implementing a higher-quality front-facing webcam is just added cost, especially if one won't be using it often. Heck, the majority of laptop webcams are only 2MP (720p) or 5MP (1080p) with no special controls.

The Zephyrus G14 is probably not aimed at your general usage, but the upcoming Lenovo Flex 14/15 with the U-series would be.


----------



## watzupken (Mar 31, 2020)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> I didn’t have much doubt that the performance would be there, as the process advantage should play out. Intel is probably pushing its 14nm+++ beyond the optimum power mark to keep performance gains (and sales) coming. What I am the most curious about is battery life and power efficiency. If that is good, then AMD has finally arrived in the mobile space. Again, with a process advantage, there’s no reason this shouldn’t be the case, but that is all in their execution.



The battery life should be good assuming laptop manufacturers don't gimp the battery in the first place. 

I agree that Intel is out of ace in their sleeves in this case. The 14nm is clearly outclassed by 7nm no matter how you cut it. On the desktop space, Intel may still be able to push clockspeed and get single core advantage, but at the expense of immense power requirement which I believe is closing in on 300W with an all core turbo. On the laptop space, they do not have the luxury of pulling ridiculous amount of power. So try as they can with ridiculous boost marketing, independent benchmarks will reveal the weakness, especially when the load is sustained. 

In this case, I feel torpedoed is a mild way of putting it. If we look at pricing and performance as a whole, AMD basically just nuked Intel. I believe Intel can only respond with price cuts since they lost the performance crown.



Cheeseball said:


> Looks like that Gigabyte Aero 15 is throttled badly. The GE65 does have good thermals (similar to the Acer Predator Helios 300 with the same specs) from what I've read about it.



This highlights the problem that Intel is facing now. As they bump up clockspeed to try to compete, their processor will increasingly not suit a light weight laptop.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Mar 31, 2020)

Damn!!!!!!!!!

From PCworlds review






I had to go look back at 9700k results out of curiosity since it seems none of their owners took part in the R20 benchmark..... it seems to score less than 4000 at stock.

Pretty impressive  for a 35w part in a 3.5lbs laptop


----------



## HossHuge (Mar 31, 2020)




----------



## ARF (Mar 31, 2020)

Cheeseball said:


> Implementing a higher-quality front-facing webcam is just added cost, especially if one won't be using it often. Heck, the majority of laptop webcams are only 2MP (720p) or 5MP (1080p) with no special controls.
> 
> The Zephyrus G14 is probably not aimed at your general usage, but the upcoming Lenovo Flex 14/15 with the U-series would be.



U-series is not fine because it is 15-watt and less performance. This thing has revolutionary performance (real desktop replacement in 14-inch bezel-less notebook?!  ) exactly because it is not limited by the TDP.


----------



## Valantar (Mar 31, 2020)

It seems the Notebookcheck.net review unit (the one that with the poor battery life) didn't deactivate the dGPU, sounds like a bug.

Other than that, this looks absolutely fantastic. Hoping for a follow-up with RDNA 2 GPUs and a faster freesync-equipped display. Other than that this looks frighteningly close to my dream laptop. Just 1.6kg with that kind of performance and that battery life? Insane.


----------



## ratirt (Mar 31, 2020)

Nice numbers for the 4900HS. The time to change my laptop is coming in really fast.


----------



## LutinChris (Mar 31, 2020)

Please do me a favor Intel, go back to your lab and let me enjoy AMD during this time


----------



## Mats (Mar 31, 2020)

21 models listed here, looking forward to some better GPU options tho.






						Notebooks mit CPU-Serie AMD: Ryzen 4000 Preisvergleich Geizhals EU
					

Preisvergleich und Bewertungen für Notebooks mit CPU-Serie AMD: Ryzen 4000




					geizhals.eu


----------



## HwGeek (Mar 31, 2020)

Der8our for some reason confused this 4900HS 3.0/4.3Ghz with the 4900H 3.3/4.4Ghz specs and was impressed that it was able to achieve the 4.4Ghz ST boost like it should, but in fact its getting 100Mhz Over the 4.3Ghz spec .
Also he was impressed that on stress it was able to boost ~3.8Ghz  and he was saying that it's impressive that it's boosting 500Mhz above the base clock while this HS model has 3.0Ghz as base -not 3.3Ghz like 4900H.

I don't get it how they can make mistakes like that while the software's used to bench clearly shows 4900HS 3.0Ghz.
Now he should be even more impressed .

*Also- I am really interested how thin and light could 4900HS ultrabook without dGPU gonna be... imagine this CPU with slim 99WH Battery ultrabook *


----------



## R0H1T (Mar 31, 2020)

I'm waiting exactly for that, imagine 4900H(S) or 4800H(S) with 16/32 GB LPDDR4x @4266 MHz in a 15 or 17 inch chassis. For those who don't need a dGPU but a beefy CPU it's almost like a dream come true


----------



## Valantar (Mar 31, 2020)

HwGeek said:


> Der8our for some reason confused this 4900HS 3.0/4.3Ghz with the 4900H 3.3/4.4Ghz specs and was impressed that it was able to achieve the 4.4Ghz ST boost like it should, but in fact its getting 100Mhz Over the 4.3Ghz spec .
> Also he was impressed that on stress it was able to boost ~3.8Ghz  and he was saying that it's impressive that it's boosting 500Mhz above the base clock while this HS model has 3.0Ghz as base -not 3.3Ghz like 4900H.
> 
> I don't get it how they can make mistakes like that while the software's used to bench clearly shows 4900HS 3.0Ghz.
> ...


I would really like a dGPU-less 4900HS laptop, but AMD was pretty clear at CES that their OEM partners aren't interested in anything above U-series without a dGPU (likely a very small market for laptops with high CPU performance but low GPU performance). As such we'll likely have to settle for a 25W-configured 4900U instead. Though I would still be really interested to see what a 4900HS with LPDDR4X could do if the iGPU was given the power headroom to really stretch its legs.


----------



## R0H1T (Mar 31, 2020)

Without a viable alternative from Intel I'm willing to bet they'll give it a go, unless of course Chipzilla's marketing fund is at play!


----------



## HwGeek (Mar 31, 2020)

Maybe new LG Gram?  they will be perfect with 4900HS.


----------



## Xajel (Mar 31, 2020)

notb said:


> Here's your 35W:
> View attachment 149780



There's nothing with that, where's your point?

Most mobile chips behave like this, boosting higher while the things are cool then stable down to it's official TDP (35W)...

The 3900H is a 45W part, it will behave same as the 3900HS except that when it stables down it will be 45W instead.


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 31, 2020)

Tell me again those super low baseclock Intel mobile CPUs are a great thing. Tell me again 5.0 Ghz turbo is more than stupid marketing...

Tell it again. I dare you, I double dare you!

*I'm actually starting to consider a laptop now for decent gaming. FINALLY some real CPU power in a small package. Intel hasn't managed to do this for any continuous workload in the past decade... go figure. This is a landslide right here in AMD's favor. Even the faster Intel HQ quads I had can't hold a candle to this. DAYUM.

It even solidifies the idea that the 9900K, top end desktop MSDT performance, mind you, is within reach of smaller form factors. Crazy



notb said:


> I wonder if this sudden surge of enthusiast-favourite CPU brand will make reviewers learn how to test laptops.
> 
> At very least, they could say which laptop is used with each CPU.
> It's certainly not in the text:
> ...



You wonder but when asked to the reason why you wonder or whether you had a point, all we heard was crickets.

And I understand why, given your usual stance on laptop CPUs. This one right here blows all your arguments away in one fell swoop. Live and learn. Intel isn't making fantastic laptop CPUs, it was shit and we could all see why, and was quickly deteriorating too with those abysmal clocks.

These benches point it out perfectly. You speak of testing properly, but it is well known among reviewers by now that laptop CPUs have predefined TDPs and reviews handily go around that, they even SPECIFY the TDP budgets now - and test it.

And as for that boosting behaviour you linked... I'll refrain from putting an Intel graph next to it, because that would just be too brutal. What I'm seeing here in your link is, by definition, a boost as you would want it. Long sustain at very good clock, only to drop down to somewhat lower performance to land at a highly efficient, but STILL performant clockspeed. And not slow down to a crawl instead. Oh, and idling? Apparently it does that better, too.

This underlines how archaic Intel's Turbo really is, even with the stupid bandaids they applied. AMD learned, clearly, from Nvidia's GPU Boost and managed to transplant most of that to its CPUs, adding even more smart logic underneath. Navi is fast going the same way, already doing most of what GPU Boost does as well. They finally got the memo. And how!


----------



## Valantar (Mar 31, 2020)

HwGeek said:


> Maybe new LG Gram?  they will be perfect with 4900HS.


As I said, it's not going to happen, OEMs don't want high power CPUs/APUs for anything dGPU-less. AMD confirmed that this is also why H/HS chips have lower-tier iGPUs than comparably named U-series chips (except the 4900H/HS). This is likely partly due to marketing (hard to sell a high-performance laptop that doesn't have a dGPU/can't play games/won't do well in GPU-accelerated workloads, difficult to convince customers that this doesn't result in bad battery life compared to a thin-and-light) and partly due to market segmentation. As I said, 25W-configured U-series chips is likely as good as we're going to get without a dGPU. Oh, also, the HS series is Asus exclusive for at least 6 months.


----------



## ppn (Mar 31, 2020)

Good to know, but it is already outdated or soon to be, waiting for EUV N5P Zen3+Rdna3.


----------



## Dredi (Mar 31, 2020)

ppn said:


> Good to know, but it is already outdated or soon to be, waiting for EUV N5P Zen3+Rdna3.


It will be outdated in 2021 when the next gen AMD mobile chips get here. Nothing new and better is coming between this and then in the mobile space.


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 31, 2020)

Valantar said:


> I would really like a dGPU-less 4900HS laptop, but AMD was pretty clear at CES that their OEM partners aren't interested in anything above U-series without a dGPU (likely a very small market for laptops with high CPU performance but low GPU performance). As such we'll likely have to settle for a 25W-configured 4900U instead. Though I would still be really interested to see what a 4900HS with LPDDR4X could do if the iGPU was given the power headroom to really stretch its legs.



I smell a market for a very sweet Kickstarter here supported by AMD. No OEMs? Make your own

It baffles me why OEMs would not want to present such a sweet spot, honestly. Too disruptive?


----------



## yotano211 (Mar 31, 2020)

ARF said:


> Normally, the modules are CAS16 DDR4-3200, and most of the available sticks on the market are such..
> 
> View attachment 149797


Those are all desktop ram. This is a laptop


----------



## londiste (Mar 31, 2020)

Also, try to find some of these CAS16 DDR4-3200 modules that would run at 1.2V...


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 31, 2020)

yotano211 said:


> Those are all desktop ram. This is a laptop





londiste said:


> Also, try to find some of these CAS16 DDR4-3200 modules that would run at 1.2V...








						G.Skill 16GB 3200MHz DDR4 SO-DIMM Laptop Memory Upgrade Kit (CL16) 1.20V PC4-25600 Ripjaws 2x8GB at Amazon.com
					

Buy G.Skill 16GB 3200MHz DDR4 SO-DIMM Laptop Memory Upgrade Kit (CL16) 1.20V PC4-25600 Ripjaws 2x8GB: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com


----------



## ratirt (Mar 31, 2020)

yotano211 said:


> Those are all desktop ram. This is a laptop





londiste said:


> Also, try to find some of these CAS16 DDR4-3200 modules that would run at 1.2V...


The difference between a laptop and a desktop ram is basically form factor but also the SODimm can't have ECC or registered buffer. Speed and specs are the same


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 31, 2020)

ratirt said:


> The difference between a laptop and a desktop ram is basically form factor but also the SODimm can't have ECC or registered buffer. Speed and specs are the same











						Crucial 16GB DDR4-2666 ECC SODIMM | CT16G4TFD8266 | Crucial.com
					

Buy Crucial 16GB DDR4-2666 ECC SODIMM CT16G4TFD8266. FREE US Delivery, guaranteed 100% compatibility when ordering using our online tools.




					www.crucial.com
				




Etc...


----------



## londiste (Mar 31, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> G.Skill 16GB 3200MHz DDR4 SO-DIMM Laptop Memory Upgrade Kit (CL16) 1.20V PC4-25600 Ripjaws 2x8GB at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.Skill 16GB 3200MHz DDR4 SO-DIMM Laptop Memory Upgrade Kit (CL16) 1.20V PC4-25600 Ripjaws 2x8GB: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> ...


Good find. This seems to be the only such module available though


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 31, 2020)

londiste said:


> Good find. This seems to be the only such module available though





			eBay
		


You guys give up yet? One...two... still more than zero!


----------



## ratirt (Mar 31, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> eBay
> 
> 
> 
> You guys give up yet? One...two... still more than zero!


Now this is a surprise.  Never seen a SODIMM DDR4 ECC.


----------



## Valantar (Mar 31, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> I smell a market for a very sweet Kickstarter here supported by AMD. No OEMs? Make your own
> 
> It baffles me why OEMs would not want to present such a sweet spot, honestly. Too disruptive?


Beats me. My old ThinkPad X201 had a 35W Core i5-520M, surprisingly good battery life, and very decent cooling. And that launched in 2010 or so. I would really, really like a modern take on that (though for me iGPU performance would be as much of a priority as CPU performance, so the H/HS SKUs as they stand aren't very well suited outside of the 4900H(S)). Then again, Asus has demonstrated pretty clearly with the G14 that there isn't much of a reason for going dGPU-less with these chips. At 1.6kg it is the first proper gaming laptop I've seen actually reach my "I can imagine carrying this around with me" threshold.



ratirt said:


> Now this is a surprise.  Never seen a SODIMM DDR4 ECC.


It's used for some mobile Xeon workstations and the like. Rare, expensive, slow, but I guess worth it for some people.


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 31, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Last I checked, 2666 is not equal to 3200.


Indeed it isn't. However, the person I quoted specifically mentioned SO-DIMMs dont have ecc/reg and said nothing about speed (in that capacity).



ratirt said:


> The difference between a laptop and a desktop ram is basically form factor but also the SODimm can't have ECC or registered buffer. Speed and specs are the same


----------



## ARF (Mar 31, 2020)

Cheeseball said:


> Implementing a higher-quality front-facing webcam is just added cost, especially if one won't be using it often.



They've put a 1 TB PCIe NVMe SSD and you call it saving costs? No.............


----------



## Valantar (Mar 31, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Indeed it isn't. However, the person I quoted specifically mentioned SO-DIMMs dont have ecc/reg and said nothing about speed (in that capacity).


Hence why I removed that from my post after realizing you were listing it as an example of ECC SODIMMs and not another 3200 1.2V kit. Kind of weird that you saw it given that the edit was pretty much immediate and there isn't any edit timestamp (which supposedly indicates anyone seeing the unedited post first).


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 31, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Hence why I removed that from my post after realizing you were listing it as an example of ECC SODIMMs and not another 3200 1.2V kit.


Welcome. You have arrived. 

Editing again?


Valantar said:


> Hence why I removed that from my post after realizing you were listing it as an example of ECC SODIMMs and not another 3200 1.2V kit. Kind of weird that you saw it given that the edit was pretty much immediate and there isn't any edit timestamp (which supposedly indicates anyone seeing the unedited post first).



Yes, I saw the post quickly. I quoted it, then quoted ratirt, and posted. I think the delay to show an edit time is at least 3 mins...considering the timestamp on mine and yours is 2 mins or less. What's your point though? You made a booboo and I happened to catch it. Shit happens man. 

EDIT -  PS the time stamp doesn't indicate anything except that a post was edited. It has nothing to do with who saw what. There is a setting in vb/xenforo where you can set this IIRC...so immediate edits won't show a time stamp.

Why are we talking about this? Who cares... move on!


----------



## Valantar (Mar 31, 2020)

ARF said:


> They've put a 1 TB PCIe NVMe SSD and you call it saving costs? No.............


Well, it is an Intel 660p, so it's no more expensive than a SATA drive.


----------



## Imsochobo (Mar 31, 2020)

ppn said:


> Good to know, but it is already outdated or soon to be, waiting for EUV N5P Zen3+Rdna3.





Dredi said:


> It will be outdated in 2021 when the next gen AMD mobile chips get here. Nothing new and better is coming between this and then in the mobile space.



as outdated as anything else you can buy 
run and buy is my verdict.
G14 is amazing piece of hardware and something nothing else compares to, even remotely!



ratirt said:


> Now this is a surprise.  Never seen a SODIMM DDR4 ECC.



They're used in Xeon based laptops, 
Examples:
Lenovo P50, P51, P52.
HP Zbook 15 and 17.

and so on.


----------



## Valantar (Mar 31, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Welcome. You have arrived.
> 
> Editing again?
> 
> ...


You seem to be the one not moving on, I was just pointing out that it was weird. Not complaining or anything - what would there be to complain about? I would think removing it from the post pretty much spells out that I misunderstood and thus rectified it. Also, I have edited posts _way_ later than three minutes after posting without any timestamp, so either the system is buggy or there's some other trigger. Either way, let's get back to the topic, eh?


----------



## Vya Domus (Mar 31, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> *I'm actually starting to consider a laptop now for decent gaming. FINALLY some real CPU power in a small package. Intel hasn't managed to do this for any continuous workload in the past decade... go figure. This is a landslide right here in AMD's favor. Even the faster Intel HQ quads I had can't hold a candle to this. DAYUM.



I haven't considered buying a laptop in practically a decade because I was tired of seeing middle of the range to high end laptops being stuck with crappy underclocked quad cores.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Mar 31, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> I smell a market for a very sweet Kickstarter here supported by AMD. No OEMs? Make your own
> 
> It baffles me why OEMs would not want to present such a sweet spot, honestly. Too disruptive?


Let me know if this is something you want to do, I know a few manufacturers that could help.

Also, there's a lot faster laptop memory available, for a price...





						Vengeance® Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 SODIMM 4000MHz CL19 Memory Kit
					

Corsair Vengeance Series DDR4 SODIMM memory modules are designed for high performance on 6th generation Intel Core systems. No configuration is required to take advantage of the higher speed – just plug it in and go.




					www.corsair.com
				






Valantar said:


> Beats me. My old ThinkPad X201 had a 35W Core i5-520M, surprisingly good battery life, and very decent cooling. And that launched in 2010 or so. I would really, really like a modern take on that (though for me iGPU performance would be as much of a priority as CPU performance, so the H/HS SKUs as they stand aren't very well suited outside of the 4900H(S)). Then again, Asus has demonstrated pretty clearly with the G14 that there isn't much of a reason for going dGPU-less with these chips. At 1.6kg it is the first proper gaming laptop I've seen actually reach my "I can imagine carrying this around with me" threshold.


Noise, noise and noise? It's actually quite a bulky 14-incher at that, with limited ports, partly thanks to all the cooling vents.


----------



## seronx (Mar 31, 2020)

I'm voting blue no matter what, sorry AMD your colors are for the wrong team! /this is a joke


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 31, 2020)

seronx said:


> I'm voting blue no matter what, sorry AMD your colors are for the wrong team! /this is a joke



At least your avatar is slowly turning to red...



INSTG8R said:


> It’s kinda. neat to see this combo. I have  17” Turion X2 /8800M  Laptop in my closet.



50 dba under load... painful. And the panel response times aren't all that either. 40ms G2G... sheeeet

Its really too bad because otherwise it looks great.


----------



## Cheeseball (Mar 31, 2020)

ARF said:


> They've put a 1 TB PCIe NVMe SSD and you call it saving costs? No.............



That's storage. 1 TB is not enough space nowadays, especially for games (and VS projects lol). 512 GB is fine to get by for office work (256 GB even).


----------



## ShurikN (Mar 31, 2020)

Valantar said:


> As such we'll likely have to settle for a 25W-configured 4900U instead.


I'm gonna make a safe bet and say that the 25w "U" part is also going to be a beast in its category.


----------



## yotano211 (Mar 31, 2020)

I'm waiting for the r9 4900h version, 45w.


----------



## Valantar (Mar 31, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Noise, noise and noise? It's actually quite a bulky 14-incher at that, with limited ports, partly thanks to all the cooling vents.


The noise isn't that bad for a thin gaming laptop (I wouldn't game on it without headphones anyway) even if it's not good either, and limited ports... meh. Two USB-C, two A and HDMI is enough for my uses.



ShurikN said:


> I'm gonna make a safe bet and say that the 25w "U" part is also going to be a beast in its category.


Yep, I don't doubt that for a second.


----------



## moob (Mar 31, 2020)

Cheeseball said:


> _1 TB is not enough space nowadays, especially for games_ (and VS projects lol). 512 GB is fine to get by for office work (256 GB even).


Say what now? My primary for both games and work is a 512GB SSD, and I currently have 5 games installed, including Destiny 2 (90GB), Control (42GB) and Ori and the Will of the Wisps (15GB). Not all modern games require an obscene amount of space and if they do, I'll play them and uninstall them.

Edit: If I were looking for a laptop, I'd look for one with a 512GB SSD at a minimum, with a 1TB being preferable, but 512GB is fine.


----------



## Cheeseball (Mar 31, 2020)

moob said:


> Say what now? My primary for both games and work is a 512GB SSD, and I currently have 5 games installed, including Destiny 2 (90GB), Control (42GB) and Ori and the Will of the Wisps (15GB). Not all modern games require an obscene amount of space and if they do, I'll play them and uninstall them.
> 
> Edit: If I were looking for a laptop, I'd look for one with a 512GB SSD at a minimum, with a 1TB being preferable, but 512GB is fine.



Just five games? 

This does depend on the user's gaming habits so no argument here. With that being said, I believe that a bigger SSD would take higher priority than a webcam, especially for mobile gaming purposes.


----------



## ARF (Mar 31, 2020)

Cheeseball said:


> Just five games?
> 
> This does depend on the user's gaming habits so no argument here. With that being said, I believe that a bigger SSD would take higher priority than a webcam, especially for mobile gaming purposes.



Yeah, especially when the poor webcam cost is a few dollar cents...


----------



## TheLostSwede (Mar 31, 2020)

Valantar said:


> The noise isn't that bad for a thin gaming laptop (I wouldn't game on it without headphones anyway) even if it's not good either, and limited ports... meh. Two USB-C, two A and HDMI is enough for my uses.


No Ethernet... Big drawback imho. No memory card slot, a slight drawback. It's not as bad as MSI's Prestige models, but still...


----------



## ARF (Mar 31, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> No Ethernet... Big drawback imho. No memory card slot, a slight drawback. It's not as bad as MSI's Prestige models, but still...



It's like the design engineers run out of space in the pursuit of a WOW effect.
The space is dominated by the exhausts vents, the fans and the battery, effectively limiting the space for everything else.
The position of the fans is not good, too, on both end sides.

This is how it looks:






And this is how it could have looked:


----------



## Cheeseball (Mar 31, 2020)

ARF said:


> Yeah, especially when the poor webcam cost is a few dollar cents...



Well, that's the thing. If they would integrate a webcam, it should be of a higher quality. It wouldn't be worth it to just put it there for the sake of having one. It's another component that would just be sitting there if the main use of the laptop is gaming.



TheLostSwede said:


> No Ethernet... Big drawback imho. No memory card slot, a slight drawback. It's not as bad as MSI's Prestige models, but still...



For me, I believe not having a built-in Ethernet port is a plus because I could always upgrade to a better one (e.g. like that 2.5 Gbps Plugable one that was released a few days back) and use it through a USB-C hub, considering that USB-C has the bandwidth. Integrating something high quality like the AQC11xU chipset would add to the overall cost of the laptop as well. At least the AX20x WiFi module can be swapped out as well.

The only disadvantage would be having to carry dongles/cables around, but at least you can upgrade them when the time comes.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Mar 31, 2020)

ARF said:


> It's like the design engineers run out of space in the pursuit of a WOW effect.
> The space is dominated by the exhausts vents, the fans and the battery, effectively limiting the space for everything else.
> The position of the fans is not good, too, on both end sides.
> 
> ...


Or not. You're comparing a 14" notebook to a 15.6" or 17.3" model there.
But yes, it seems like it could've been done slightly different to add even a second M.2 port, but alas.
Maybe the next model?

Also, FYI, Germany uses QWERTZ keyboards and ideally I want one with ÅÄÖ, so I can't just buy a computer anywhere...



Cheeseball said:


> For me, I believe not having a built-in Ethernet port is a plus because I could always upgrade to a better one (e.g. like that 2.5 Gbps Plugable one that was released a few days back) and use it through a USB-C hub, considering that USB-C has the bandwidth. Integrating something high quality like the AQC11xU chipset would add to the overall cost of the laptop as well. At least the AX20x WiFi module can be swapped out as well.
> 
> The only disadvantage would be having to carry dongles/cables around, but at least you can upgrade them when the time comes.


So what do you do when you forget the dongle and you end up stuck in a hotel that doesn't have Wi-Fi in the rooms, only Ethernet? Or when you're over at your mates trying to fix his router and you didn't bring the dongle? Dongles are all nice, but nothing beats built in Ethernet, as it's always there, no matter what.
If you want 2.5Gbps, the cheap options are Realtek or Intel these days, or even (dare I say) Killer (it's Intel based), as Aquantia isn't very price competitive on the 2.5Gbps parts.
I have the Realtek chip on my motherboard and it's actually rather good, but as I have a 10Gbps NIC in that PC...


----------



## Mats (Mar 31, 2020)

ARF said:


> The position of the fans is not good, too, on both end sides.


Why is that bad?
The G14 have no vents on the underside. Being a 14" model, chances are that you'll actually use it in your lap, and with no vents underneath you won't suffocate it. (you = anyone, not only people who knows what to not do with a laptop..)
It has heatpipes in both the exhaust and the intake. Moving the intake will reduce the real estate for heatpipes in total, easier said than done.

Besides, you're comparing it with a laptop that has only two heatpipes. This one have FIVE, and seven pipe ends are soldered to the heatsinks. Yeah, very easy to just move around..


----------



## ARF (Mar 31, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Also, FYI, Germany uses AZERTY keyboards and ideally I want one with ÅÄÖ, so I can't just buy a computer anywhere...



German keyboards are QWERTZ with the German Umlauts Ä, Ö and Ü.

Some bookshops sell special alphabet stickers which you can put on top of your keys and there you go


----------



## TheLostSwede (Mar 31, 2020)

ARF said:


> German keyboards are QWERTZ with the German Umlauts Ä, Ö and Ü.
> 
> Some bookshops sell special alphabet stickers which you can put on top of your keys and there you go


True, mixed it up with the French ones there for a second. 
And stickers doesn't fix that...


----------



## moob (Mar 31, 2020)

Cheeseball said:


> Just five games?
> 
> This does depend on the user's gaming habits so no argument here. With that being said,_ I believe that a bigger SSD would take higher priority than a webcam, especially for mobile gaming purposes._


100% agreed. It'd certainly be a higher priority for me as well.

And believe it or not, 5 games is a lot for me. I usually only have 2 or 3 games installed at a time. Once I finish it, I uninstall it. But with Control I'm waiting for the DLCs (well, second DLC now) and with Ori I gotta do some of the time trials.



TheLostSwede said:


> So what do you do when you forget the dongle and you end up stuck in a hotel that doesn't have Wi-Fi in the rooms, only Ethernet?


Is that a thing? I've never been in a hotel room where ethernet was the only choice. Scratch that, I don't think I've ever been in a hotel room where ethernet was a choice at all, at least here in the US. Some places have the jack, but it's not in service.


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## TheLostSwede (Mar 31, 2020)

moob said:


> Is that a thing? I've never been in a hotel room where ethernet was the only choice. Scratch that, I don't think I've ever been in a hotel room where ethernet was a choice at all, at least here in the US. Some places have the jack, but it's not in service.


You'd be surprised what you end up with sometimes. It's only happened once to me, but it has happened. Also, some hotels have much faster internet access over Ethernet compared to their slow 802.11g Wi-Fi with half a bar signal, as they were too cheap to buy enough Wi-Fi AP's...
Then again, some hotels have free Wi-Fi, but charge if you use the Ethernet route...


----------



## Valantar (Mar 31, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> No Ethernet... Big drawback imho. No memory card slot, a slight drawback. It's not as bad as MSI's Prestige models, but still...


Ethernet would be nice, but it's not a must for me. Where do you find hotels in 2020 without WiFi in the rooms? I've travelled quite a lot, and WiFi is ubiquitous and has been for years. In an emergency I would just tether my phone, though I always have a dongle in my bag. I also have both USB-A and USB-C memory card readers, so no worries there. A lot of the integrated ones lack UHS-I support or even connect through USB 2.0, so I don't trust built-in readers anyhow - no use making one a criteria for laptop choice when 70% don't have one, and more than half of the ones that do have bad or useless ones. Beyond that I just think we have different frames of reference. This has excellent I/O for a thin-and-light in 2020, even if at 1.6kg it is ~.3kg heavier than most (and not that thin). I haven't used a big laptop for more than a decade, so this would not be problematic for me whatsoever.



ARF said:


> It's like the design engineers run out of space in the pursuit of a WOW effect.
> The space is dominated by the exhausts vents, the fans and the battery, effectively limiting the space for everything else.
> The position of the fans is not good, too, on both end sides.
> 
> ...


So you are comparing it to a much larger laptop that has fewer heatpipes and noticeably less surface area for its cooler, not to mention fewer exhausts = less airflow from the fans, and you would prefer them to have gone more in the direction of your comparison? Why? Your example is clearly a much worse cooler. No wow effect here, what you are describing is the opposite of that, function over form. Vents in the back, power in the front, I/O where ever it fits. It's not ideal, but with the components used that is the only sensible design priority.


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## Cheeseball (Mar 31, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> So what do you do when you forget the dongle and you end up stuck in a hotel that doesn't have Wi-Fi in the rooms, only Ethernet? Or when you're over at your mates trying to fix his router and you didn't bring the dongle? Dongles are all nice, but nothing beats built in Ethernet, as it's always there, no matter what.
> If you want 2.5Gbps, the cheap options are Realtek or Intel these days, or even (dare I say) Killer (it's Intel based), as Aquantia isn't very price competitive on the 2.5Gbps parts.
> I have the Realtek chip on my motherboard and it's actually rather good, but as I have a 10Gbps NIC in that PC...



Yeah, that's the disadvantage with having the dongles. This is why I would always just jam one in the laptop bag too.

Dude the hotels you stay at suck if they don't offer WiFi as an amenity. LOL. But yeah Ethernet will always be superior in terms of stable latency and bandwidth.


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## Totally (Mar 31, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Tell me again 5.0 Ghz turbo is more than stupid marketing...
> 
> Tell it again. I dare you, I double dare you!



Oh I totally will, it's stupid marketing, when a laptop equipped with such a CPU can't maintain those speeds throttles very quickly, and in order not to has to be some monstrosity a la Acer Mothership.


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## TheLostSwede (Mar 31, 2020)

Naughty Asus, doing ANSI layout with ISO languages... Not cool, not cool at all.








Valantar said:


> Ethernet would be nice, but it's not a must for me. Where do you find hotels in 2020 without WiFi in the rooms? I've travelled quite a lot, and WiFi is ubiquitous and has been for years. In an emergency I would just tether my phone, though I always have a dongle in my bag. I also have both USB-A and USB-C memory card readers, so no worries there. A lot of the integrated ones lack UHS-I support or even connect through USB 2.0, so I don't trust built-in readers anyhow - no use making one a criteria for laptop choice when 70% don't have one, and more than half of the ones that do have bad or useless ones. Beyond that I just think we have different frames of reference. This has excellent I/O for a thin-and-light in 2020, even if at 1.6kg it is ~.3kg heavier than most (and not that thin). I haven't used a big laptop for more than a decade, so this would not be problematic for me whatsoever.


Personally I don't like to travel with a bag full of "crap" to be able to use my computer.
Then again, I used to be a tech journalist and every gram truly counts when you're at a trade show, as after a week, your back is seriously messed up as it is. I once grabbed a random notebook that was in the office for review before heading to CeBIT, I dumped it at a friends booth the first day and never brought it to the show after that, as it was a 2.5kg beast.
I have a Thinkpad X250 and even it is on the heavy side when travelling imho and it weighs in at 1.5kg with the extra large battery. It has Ethernet and a PCIe connected SD card reader and it's smaller than the Asus. That said, it doesn't have a dedicated GPU.
I think you're out of touch when it comes to thin and light, they're down to 995g and less these days... This is a "regular" notebook in 2020.
Also, compared to this sub 1kg notebook, Asus has poor connectivity. They even managed to fit a web cam...








						VAIO SX
					






					us.vaio.com
				






Cheeseball said:


> Yeah, that's the disadvantage with having the dongles. This is why I would always just jam one in the laptop bag too.
> 
> Dude the hotels you stay at suck if they don't offer WiFi as an amenity. LOL. But yeah Ethernet will always be superior in terms of stable latency and bandwidth.


The last hotel I stayed at that didn't have free Wi-Fi was in the US... Then again, they didn't have free internet of any kind. In fact, it was cheaper and faster to turn on roaming on my phone and use that, their their 2Mbps Wi-Fi service...


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## r9 (Apr 1, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> So what do you do when you forget the dongle and you end up stuck in a hotel that doesn't have Wi-Fi in the rooms, only Ethernet?



You jump back into the time machine and travel back into the present ?


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## Mats (Apr 1, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> I think you're out of touch when it comes to thin and light, they're down to 995g and less these days... This is a "regular" notebook in 2020.


Except for gaming notebooks tho. Very few models have this low weight and size together with GPU power like this one.

Out of over 300 models up to 14" under 1.7 kg with a dedicated GPU, there are only FOUR models that tops out at 1660 TI Max-Q, and those are the new G14.









						Notebooks mit Display-Größe bis 14.1", Grafik-Hersteller: AMD/NVIDIA, Gewicht bis 1.7kg Preisvergleich Geizhals EU
					

Preisvergleich und Bewertungen für Notebooks mit Display-Größe bis 14.1", Grafik-Hersteller: AMD/NVIDIA, Gewicht bis 1.7kg




					geizhals.eu
				




This model is tiny and light for a gaming laptop. Edit: Oh, maybe you were just referring to connectivity, idk..


----------



## watzupken (Apr 1, 2020)

Cheeseball said:


> That's storage. 1 TB is not enough space nowadays, especially for games (and VS projects lol). 512 GB is fine to get by for office work (256 GB even).



Firstly, it is difficult to find a laptop with more than 1TB SSD at this point. Some manufacturers give you the option of 2TB, but at a substantial cost. 

Secondly, even the new game consoles from Microsoft and Sony are not featuring any more than 1TB built in based on the rumors floating around. If there is ever a need for more, then either you DIY and change to a higher capacity drive, or use an external storage. So no difference on a laptop as well. 

Lastly, I feel it is a matter of an individual's effort to clean up on games they don't play. I actually don't think you need like 10 games on your hard drive at any point in time since most have their few favorite games they play all the time. Even if you have a 4TB SSD, you will eventually run out of space installing all the games that you don't play. 

If its for storing photos, videos, other files, it may be better to store them in the cloud, or get NAS, which will be more cost effective than storing in SSDs.



Mats said:


> Except for gaming notebooks tho. Very few models have this low weight and size together with GPU power like this one.
> 
> Out of over 300 models up to 14" under 1.7 kg with a dedicated GPU, there are only FOUR models that tops out at 1660 TI Max-Q, and those are the new G14.
> 
> ...


Because it is really difficult to cool the components in a thin chassis. Light weight means there will be compromise either with the battery and/or the cooling solution. Most if not all of these thin and light "gaming" laptops will throttle badly due to insufficient cooling. Also higher end components will mean a big and heavy power brick to go along to keep up with the power requirement.



TheLostSwede said:


> Personally I don't like to travel with a bag full of "crap" to be able to use my computer.
> Then again, I used to be a tech journalist and every gram truly counts when you're at a trade show, as after a week, your back is seriously messed up as it is. I once grabbed a random notebook that was in the office for review before heading to CeBIT, I dumped it at a friends booth the first day and never brought it to the show after that, as it was a 2.5kg beast.
> I have a Thinkpad X250 and even it is on the heavy side when travelling imho and it weighs in at 1.5kg with the extra large battery. It has Ethernet and a PCIe connected SD card reader and it's smaller than the Asus. That said, it doesn't have a dedicated GPU.
> I think you're out of touch when it comes to thin and light, they're down to 995g and less these days... This is a "regular" notebook in 2020.
> ...



I won't like to resort to dongles as well if possible. However it is more likely you will find WiFi more than you can find Ethernet port outdoors nowadays. Most hotels I visit will either give free WiFi or you will end up having to pay for any form of internet connection. And just like you mentioned, it would be easier if you just tether data directly to your laptop, especially when you are on the go. Bu the way, I don't deny the benefits of direct wire connections and would like one here as well. But if it is not there, it is still not a deal breaker in my opinion.


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## KarymidoN (Apr 1, 2020)

After watching der8uer video i'm sure this thing is amazing, for a 14" model for 1500$ this is a monster price/Performance machine, not perfect for sure, but it really fills a lot of important boxes for a lot of people that need small, thin and powerfull machines on the go.


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## Valantar (Apr 1, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Naughty Asus, doing ANSI layout with ISO languages... Not cool, not cool at all.


I believe all review units sent out are US units, your picture is clearly that.



TheLostSwede said:


> Personally I don't like to travel with a bag full of "crap" to be able to use my computer.
> Then again, I used to be a tech journalist and every gram truly counts when you're at a trade show, as after a week, your back is seriously messed up as it is. I once grabbed a random notebook that was in the office for review before heading to CeBIT, I dumped it at a friends booth the first day and never brought it to the show after that, as it was a 2.5kg beast.
> I have a Thinkpad X250 and even it is on the heavy side when travelling imho and it weighs in at 1.5kg with the extra large battery. It has Ethernet and a PCIe connected SD card reader and it's smaller than the Asus. That said, it doesn't have a dedicated GPU.
> I think you're out of touch when it comes to thin and light, they're down to 995g and less these days... This is a "regular" notebook in 2020.
> ...


Oh, I know full well that there are <1kg ultrabooks out there, they just don't appeal much to me. The LG Gram series is reportedly very good, but not available in the Nordics. That Vaio you linked is the standard "I'm from Japan, I have all the I/O" thing which is pretty nice, but sadly it falls flat in other aspects (build quality, cooling). Not to mention the astronomical prices. Well-performing mainstay ultrabooks like the XPS 13 series are still mostly around the 1.2-1.3kg range. My current work laptop, a Latitude 7390 2-in-1 is 1.44 kg, and that's perfectly fine (if a tad heavy for tablet use) though it has other issues. And for me, I've accepted that dongles are a part of life these days. Sure, they're a hassle (especially when you don't remember to bring one), but one that a bit of preparedness can account for. And thankfully my life doesn't involve schlepping around a heavy backpack at trade shows, and while days at academic conferences can be long and tiring there isn't much walking involved, and there are no more than 1-2 of those a year. As I said, I think we mainly have different frames of reference. My strict adherence to (what was then) light laptops came from owning a HP TouchSmart TX2 back in the mid-2000s - a 12.1" convertible that weighed a good 2.1kg. Dragging that thing to school every day was horrible, so then I told myself to never get anything even close to that heavy. When it died I moved to the X201, and kept that for ... oh, nearly a decade. Got my current laptop from work, but I'm not all that happy with it and my use has changed some, so I would like the option for some gaming on the go, and 1.6kg is still well within acceptable for me. Of course the fact that I drag around a lot of photography equipment every time I travel privately does play into that - on its own the difference between 1kg and 1.6 is big, but not when you're carrying 2-5kg of camera gear. Of course that argument can probably be extended at least to 2kg, but again that's too heavy for daily use for me. So 1.6kg is an acceptable compromise all in all, though I wouldn't go any heavier.


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## Dredi (Apr 1, 2020)

Valantar said:


> I believe all review units sent out are US units, your picture is clearly that.



check the keys more carefully. That model is customized to the uk market, and should have ISO layout but does not. All they did was split the left shift and even that split line looks like shit.


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## Mats (Apr 1, 2020)

watzupken said:


> Because it is really difficult to cool the components in a thin chassis. Light weight means there will be compromise either with the battery and/or the cooling solution. Most if not all of these thin and light "gaming" laptops will throttle badly due to insufficient cooling. Also higher end components will mean a big and heavy power brick to go along to keep up with the power requirement.


You missed my point. I was just saying that 1.6 kg is NOT average for a gaming laptop with a GPU like this.


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## ARF (Apr 1, 2020)

Mats said:


> Why is that bad?
> The G14 have no vents on the underside. Being a 14" model, chances are that you'll actually use it in your lap, and with no vents underneath you won't suffocate it. (you = anyone, not only people who knows what to not do with a laptop..)
> It has heatpipes in both the exhaust and the intake. Moving the intake will reduce the real estate for heatpipes in total, easier said than done.
> 
> Besides, you're comparing it with a laptop that has only two heatpipes. This one have FIVE, and seven pipe ends are soldered to the heatsinks. Yeah, very easy to just move around..



It looks as if it has only 2 heatpipes because it's with a 15-watt APU, so it's fine.
Don't you see all the space around that you can put 20 heatpipes if you wish.

The Asus design is awful, I would ask their engineering team to rethink their philosophy of using soldered RAM and so inefficiently positioned cooling.


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## micropage7 (Apr 1, 2020)

ARF said:


> It's like the design engineers run out of space in the pursuit of a WOW effect.
> The space is dominated by the exhausts vents, the fans and the battery, effectively limiting the space for everything else.
> The position of the fans is not good, too, on both end sides.
> 
> ...


it looks they try to catch symmetry especially when gaming style now make everything following supercar or ship or aircraft pattern with  sharp edge, unconventional cut and like that
like that design it might be good for looks but you right hand will hit by exhaust


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## Mats (Apr 1, 2020)

ARF said:


> It looks as if it has only 2 heatpipes because it's with a 15-watt APU, so it's fine.
> Don't you see all the space around that you can put 20 heatpipes if you wish.
> 
> The Asus design is awful, I would ask their engineering team to rethink their philosophy of using soldered RAM and so inefficiently positioned cooling.


Well done, you think you know better than a engineering team at Asus. I'm not saying that they never do any mistakes tho. Stop being so naive. Maybe they know something about this that we don't? Maybe the engineers doesn't call all the shots about what the product should be like. Maybe they have to consider things like production cost, something buyers never get to know about.
Here we have a very price competitive product with high performance, low weight, and small size, and you're complaining about compromises? Then buy something else, or better yet, try to find something similar, at all.
If it's that bad, show me something similar that works better. Even if you don't like it, you have to admit that the price is extremely competitive.

It's very difficult to make the cooling work sufficiently when the case is that thin.
*Size: height x width x depth (in mm): 17.9 x 324 x 222 ( = 0.7 x 12.76 x 8.74 in)*

There's no room for what you suggest, and you still haven't answered why this design is bad.


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## ARF (Apr 1, 2020)

Mats said:


> Well done, you think you know better than a engineering team at Asus. I'm not saying that they never do any mistakes tho. Stop being so naive. Maybe they know something about this that we don't? Maybe the engineers doesn't call all the shots about what the product should be like. Maybe they have to consider things like production cost, something buyers never get to know about.
> Here we have a very price competitive product with high performance, low weight, and small size, and you're complaining about compromises? Then buy something else, or better yet, try to find something similar, at all.
> If it's that bad, show me something similar that works better. Even if you don't like it, you have to admit that the price is extremely competitive.
> 
> ...



I will have to escalate the case to Asus support.

You are right only about thing - that Asus is free to make in whatever shape they want.

It will be, however, on the customers' side to decide and assess it.

I have a camera and a phone that work with memory cards, and I have the need to have a working webcam.
If the notebook really has no solutions of these missing items, then I'm sorry, but Asus have just lost another potential customer.


And how dare you to say to a customer - do you think you know better than our engineers?


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## Vayra86 (Apr 1, 2020)

Mats said:


> Well done, you think you know better than a engineering team at Asus. I'm not saying that they never do any mistakes tho. Stop being so naive. Maybe they know something about this that we don't? Maybe the engineers doesn't call all the shots about what the product should be like. Maybe they have to consider things like production cost, something buyers never get to know about.
> Here we have a very price competitive product with high performance, low weight, and small size, and you're complaining about compromises? Then buy something else, or better yet, try to find something similar, at all.
> If it's that bad, show me something similar that works better. Even if you don't like it, you have to admit that the price is extremely competitive.
> 
> ...



Well... in ARF's favor, if they had rotated the whole cooling solution and heatpipe pathing towards the back end of the case, things would have been a lot more comfortable to use. Doesn't look impossible, its the same cross style heatpipe design really.

Do we know better, no, you're right we often don't know all the _considerations_ of engineers. But we do know what we like and want as customers and I think that is what ARF is getting at. For good reasons too. I've had my share of laptops and its really, really hard to get everything right, but its still possible. Its a choice of where to compromise. A few mm more thickness to have a great cooling solution to me and many others is a no brainer, but for many engineers its apparently a crime.


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## TheLostSwede (Apr 1, 2020)

Valantar said:


> I believe all review units sent out are US units, your picture is clearly that.


That's a UK keyboard layout. Look at the left shift key and you'll see it's split and the |\ key is next to it, which only UK keyboards have. I ought to know, as my laptop has a UK keyboard...
That also means the #~ key has been relocated above the slim-line ANSI enter key.
Maybe not a deal breaker for a UK layout, but it really messes things up when you use say a Scandinavian layout, as the #~ changes to '* which is used a lot when typing English. Having it above the enter key is simply not usable. Acer seems to be doing the same crap with some of their ultrabooks.



Valantar said:


> Oh, I know full well that there are <1kg ultrabooks out there, they just don't appeal much to me. The LG Gram series is reportedly very good, but not available in the Nordics. That Vaio you linked is the standard "I'm from Japan, I have all the I/O" thing which is pretty nice, but sadly it falls flat in other aspects (build quality, cooling). Not to mention the astronomical prices. Well-performing mainstay ultrabooks like the XPS 13 series are still mostly around the 1.2-1.3kg range. My current work laptop, a Latitude 7390 2-in-1 is 1.44 kg, and that's perfectly fine (if a tad heavy for tablet use) though it has other issues. And for me, I've accepted that dongles are a part of life these days. Sure, they're a hassle (especially when you don't remember to bring one), but one that a bit of preparedness can account for. And thankfully my life doesn't involve schlepping around a heavy backpack at trade shows, and while days at academic conferences can be long and tiring there isn't much walking involved, and there are no more than 1-2 of those a year. As I said, I think we mainly have different frames of reference. My strict adherence to (what was then) light laptops came from owning a HP TouchSmart TX2 back in the mid-2000s - a 12.1" convertible that weighed a good 2.1kg. Dragging that thing to school every day was horrible, so then I told myself to never get anything even close to that heavy. When it died I moved to the X201, and kept that for ... oh, nearly a decade. Got my current laptop from work, but I'm not all that happy with it and my use has changed some, so I would like the option for some gaming on the go, and 1.6kg is still well within acceptable for me. Of course the fact that I drag around a lot of photography equipment every time I travel privately does play into that - on its own the difference between 1kg and 1.6 is big, but not when you're carrying 2-5kg of camera gear. Of course that argument can probably be extended at least to 2kg, but again that's too heavy for daily use for me. So 1.6kg is an acceptable compromise all in all, though I wouldn't go any heavier.


I don't get why we should have to accept that dongles are part of life. The Vaio I linked to clearly shows it's possible to have decent connectivity in a very thin and light notebook. A lot of people use their notebooks for actual work and don't want to have to compromise on connectivity, just because the manufacturer decided to shave off 1mm in thickness. I've always been a huge fan of the Thinkpad X2x0-series, but alas, they ruined it and then discontinued it. Admittedly I've never bought a third battery for my notebook, but for real road warriors, it's possible to swap out the rear battery on my X250, while the notebook is still running, as it has a smaller, internal battery as well.

These days it's all about how thin a notebook can be, which is really useless imho. I guess it's largely thanks to Apple, as they've been pushing their own agenda by making thinner and thinner notebooks, to no benefit of the user beyond a certain point. Yes, weight matters, but that's a different matter and improved materials alone, have brought down the weight of most notebooks to a much more reasonable level than a few years ago. 

Your experience doesn't seem to be that different from me, although my first Notebook was a Dell Inspiron something or the other, that weighed in at 3.5kg... That only ever went on one trip with me...
The added camera gear was also why I wanted a light notebook, as the two together was madness. 
Yes, 1.6kg is very reasonable for what this is and that's why I was interested in it, but it can't be called thin and light by today's standards, which was my point. It's pretty average for a notebook today, albeit not with the specs it has. It is thin and light for a gaming notebook though.


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## Valantar (Apr 1, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> That's a UK keyboard layout. Look at the left shift key and you'll see it's split and the |\ key is next to it, which only UK keyboards have. I ought to know, as my laptop has a UK keyboard...
> That also means the #~ key has been relocated above the slim-line ANSI enter key.
> Maybe not a deal breaker for a UK layout, but it really messes things up when you use say a Scandinavian layout, as the #~ changes to '* which is used a lot when typing English. Having it above the enter key is simply not usable. Acer seems to be doing the same crap with some of their ultrabooks.


Oh, yeah, you're right, I didn't spot that bottom left key. I completely agree that layouts like that are garbage for scandinavian languages - I'm perfectly fine with the traditional compromise of "nordic" layouts with heaps of letters on the ÆØÅ keys, but I couldn't live with an ANSI layout. I mean, I get that making different keyboard decks and keyboards increases costs and complicates shipping and handling due to loads of SKUs, but man ... how hard can it be? One ANSI deck, one ISO deck, with regional keyboards. Any OEM should be able to handle that.


TheLostSwede said:


> I don't get why we should have to accept that dongles are part of life. The Vaio I linked to clearly shows it's possible to have decent connectivity in a very thin and light notebook. A lot of people use their notebooks for actual work and don't want to have to compromise on connectivity, just because the manufacturer decided to shave off 1mm in thickness. I've always been a huge fan of the Thinkpad X2x0-series, but alas, they ruined it and then discontinued it. Admittedly I've never bought a third battery for my notebook, but for real road warriors, it's possible to swap out the rear battery on my X250, while the notebook is still running, as it has a smaller, internal battery as well.


The thing is, I/O always changes through the lifetime of a laptop, so my main focus is having enough to make it flexible rather than having it fit every current need - a lot of those ports are likely to fall out of favor. Of course these days most I/O is fast enough that nothing really saturates it, especially USB 3.2x2 or TB3, but that also means that having a handful of these ports + enough easily convertible display outputs is generally enough for me, as it can handle any current needs I have + any future needs I foresee. I'm not a sysadmin so I don't _need_ ethernet built in, and beyond that I'll much rather upgrade to a faster card reader/ethernet dongle/whatever USB doohickey than be constantly pushed towards feeling that my system is obsolete thanks to not having current I/O standards. Parts of how I kept my X201 useable over the years was due to the Expresscard slot letting me add USB 3.0 and having a docking station with a DP output - if not for that, being stuck with just USB 2.0 and VGA would have forced me to get rid of it _far_ earlier (even with the HDD swapped to an SSD and a much newer WiFi card added in). Seeing how internal expansion cards for laptops are dead (and frankly, good riddance, as they are mostly just wasted space) using dongles is good enough for me.


TheLostSwede said:


> These days it's all about how thin a notebook can be, which is really useless imho. I guess it's largely thanks to Apple, as they've been pushing their own agenda by making thinner and thinner notebooks, to no benefit of the user beyond a certain point. Yes, weight matters, but that's a different matter and improved materials alone, have brought down the weight of most notebooks to a much more reasonable level than a few years ago.


I don't disagree with this at all, there's definitely a point of diminishing returns for thinness, and IMO it's been passed by a lot of manufacturers quite a while back. While I do see the ergonomic/handling benefits of the tapered chassis design of my partner's XPS 13 compared to my Latitude (it feels _much_ better in the hand, carrying around, and perceived size and weight is significantly smaller despite only being marginally lighter and roughly the same size), I do like the relatively well-stocked I/O of the Latitude. There's a give and take there, definitely. I would say I prefer a balance of reasonable thickness/weight/size with sensible I/O, and I wouldn't want to go to extremes in either direction - the 12" MacBook/MacBook Air is just as unappealing to me as some 2.5kg 4cm thick monster 15.6" laptop, and Dell IMO nearly ruined the newest XPS 13 (which they came _so_ close to getting right with the 16:10 display!) due to cutting the I/O even more. Ultimately I just think we have slightly different needs and thus different specific desires.



TheLostSwede said:


> Your experience doesn't seem to be that different from me, although my first Notebook was a Dell Inspiron something or the other, that weighed in at 3.5kg... That only ever went on one trip with me...
> The added camera gear was also why I wanted a light notebook, as the two together was madness.
> Yes, 1.6kg is very reasonable for what this is and that's why I was interested in it, but it can't be called thin and light by today's standards, which was my point. It's pretty average for a notebook today, albeit not with the specs it has. It is thin and light for a gaming notebook though.


Exactly what I was trying to say  Not technically thin and light by today's standards, but close enough not to matter to me, and certainly damn impressive for what it brings to the table. As I won't be buying anything this year though, now I'm just hoping for a follow-up next year with RDNA 2 GPUs, USB4 (one port is plenty) and HDMI 2.1. A display with faster response times would be nice too (maybe someone makes one by then!), but they can keep the chassis identical IMO. I don't see how they could fit anything more that would be of real value to me. The I/O placement is clunky, but cooling definitely is a higher priority (and I'd much rather have an annoying USB port than an exhaust fan toasting my hand).


----------



## medi01 (Apr 1, 2020)

Puzzling there are next to no 4000 series Ryzen laptops with Navi chips.


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## seronx (Apr 1, 2020)

medi01 said:


> Puzzling there are next to no 4000 series Ryzen laptops with Navi chips.


RX 5700M/5600M isn't physically launched yet.  Expect more RDNA1 w/ Renoir by June, aka end of first half for 2020.


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## Valantar (Apr 1, 2020)

medi01 said:


> Puzzling there are next to no 4000 series Ryzen laptops with Navi chips.





seronx said:


> RX 5700M/5600M isn't physically launched yet.  Expect more RDNA1 w/ Renoir by June, aka end of first half for 2020.


Dell's G5 15 Special Edition comes with the 5600M and is supposed to launch in April.


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## medi01 (Apr 1, 2020)

@seronx @Valantar 
5500M was released about 2 months ago:





__





						MSI Alpha 15 – 7nm Technology Gaming Laptop
					

MSI Alpha 15 with most advanced AMD 2nd Gen Ryzen™ 7 mobile processor and Radeon™ RX 5500M Graphics, easily handles with popular game titles with 144Hz IPS-level display ensuring sharp and clear image in a compact form factor. Limited bundle offers now fo




					www.msi.com
				




Reviewers ranked it as "between 1650Ti and 1660TI Q"


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## Vya Domus (Apr 1, 2020)

I think I figured out the reason why this only has 8mb of L3 cache : power and thermals 

I was looking at battery life and clocks and I don't think all of that is exclusively because of 7nm. Caches use a lot of power in processors, this 4900HS is monolithic so it doesn't have the same problem as the chiplet desktop chips therefore they were able to cut the cache in half, maintain performance and improve power efficiency considerably.


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## seronx (Apr 2, 2020)

Vya Domus said:


> I think I figured out the reason why this only has 8mb of L3 cache : power and thermals


I think it was because they wanted 8-cores in a small die.

Zen w/ 8 MB L3 => ~44 mm2
Zen2 w/ 16 MB L3 => ~31 mm2

Basically placing a single Zen2 CCX around the die area of a single PD module+L2, PD+2 MB(~30.9).
Removing 12 MB from the CCX makes each CCX well within XV+1 MB(~14.48+5) to XV+2 MB(~14.48+10, if it existed). (Zen2 CCX with only 4 MB L3 is potentially less than 22 mm2)


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## Parn (Apr 2, 2020)

Can't wait for Zen 2 to come to desktop.


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## EarthDog (Apr 2, 2020)

Parn said:


> Can't wait for Zen 2 to come to desktop.


My dude...





__





						zen 2 review - Google Search
					





					www.google.com


----------



## Tsukiyomi91 (Apr 2, 2020)

2 words: Goodbye Intel.


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## seronx (Apr 2, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> My dude...


Maybe, your dood meant desktop Zen2 APU?


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## EarthDog (Apr 2, 2020)

seronx said:


> Maybe, your dood meant desktop Zen2 APU?


Maybe...! But he surely didnt say that!!


----------



## ARF (Apr 2, 2020)

KarymidoN said:


> After watching der8uer video i'm sure this thing is amazing, for a 14" model for 1500$ this is a monster price/Performance machine, not perfect for sure, but it really fills a lot of important boxes for a lot of people that need small, thin and powerfull machines on the go.


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## Chrispy_ (Apr 5, 2020)

As impressive as Zen2 mobile is, the laptop market really isn't high-end desktop replacements. That segment makes up less than 5% of the total laptop market.

No, the vast majority (like 70% or more) is in the $500-1000 thin-and-light market where the 4000U series are about a year and a half overdue already.

We don't want 16 core laptops anywhere near as much as we want 4-core laptops that can have a non-terrible GPU and can actually use that GPU for more than a couple of hours away from a wall socket.

Sincerely, the 70% of laptop buyers complaining about Intel IGPs.


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## Flanker (Apr 5, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> As impressive as Zen2 mobile is, the laptop market really isn't high-end desktop replacements. That segment makes up less than 5% of the total laptop market.
> 
> No, the vast majority (like 70% or more) is in the $500-1000 thin-and-light market where the 4000U series are about a year and a half overdue already.
> 
> ...


lol I was just wondering if I am the only person who's more interested in a 4800U or 4900U laptop without discrete graphics.


----------



## ARF (Apr 5, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> As impressive as Zen2 mobile is, the laptop market really isn't high-end desktop replacements. That segment makes up less than 5% of the total laptop market.
> 
> No, the vast majority (like 70% or more) is in the $500-1000 thin-and-light market where the 4000U series are about a year and a half overdue already.
> 
> ...



The Vega iGPU in the new Ryzen 4000 is very powerful


----------



## londiste (Apr 5, 2020)

ARF said:


> The Vega iGPU in the new Ryzen 4000 is very powerful
> View attachment 150449


This is probably a very CPU-limited scenario.

Edit:
Added the image reference to quote.


----------



## Valantar (Apr 5, 2020)

londiste said:


> This is probably a very CPU-limited scenario.


Lenovo's upcoming Yoga Slim 7 with the 4800U shows excellent performance in Borderlands 3 according to leaked benchmark data from Notebookcheck.net. Slightly slower than the Nvidia MX350, significantly faster than the MX250. AFAIK that Lenovo runs the chip at 25W though (the wording around it is a bit odd, some coverage makes it sound like it's not 25W cTDP but rather a 15W configuration with an extended 25W turbo mode, but that sounds weird). Either way, excellent performance.













I see no reason whatsoever to expect Ryzen Mobile 4000U chips to not kick butt in games. The IGPUs are clocked significantly higher than before and have 2x the memory bandwidth accessible compared to previous DDR4-equipped alternatives. Obviously that's going to be a big improvement, regardless of having a few CUs less. And unless the game runs eight or lore very heavy threads (which no games do) the CPU is not going to starve the GPU for power even within the 15W TDP.



Flanker said:


> lol I was just wondering if I am the only person who's more interested in a 4800U or 4900U laptop without discrete graphics.


I originally was (these APUs look amazing), but the Asus G14 really got me going in terms of its astounding combination of size, weight and performance. I still might not get one (it is definitely on the expensive side and I won't be buying anything in the near future anyhow), and if not I'll likely be getting some sort of 13-14" U-series equipped 25W ultralight instead. Preferably with a 16:10 or 3:2 screen and a good keyboard. Fingers crossed for something like that showing up.


----------



## londiste (Apr 5, 2020)

@Valantar, I did not want to quote the big picture but that graph is the quoted post was pretty misleading. Vega 8 in 4900HS will not perform at or above GTX1650 MaxQ in any GPU-limited scenario. Even without checking I am very sure Civilization VI at lowest settings is a CPU-limited test.


ARF said:


> The Vega iGPU in the new Ryzen 4000 is very powerful
> View attachment 150449






Flanker said:


> lol I was just wondering if I am the only person who's more interested in a 4800U or 4900U laptop without discrete graphics.


Could not care less about laptops. Give me that APU for AM4 already...


----------



## Valantar (Apr 5, 2020)

londiste said:


> @Valantar, I did not want to quote the big picture but that graph is the quoted post was pretty misleading. Vega 8 in 4900HS will not perform at or above GTX1650 MaxQ in any GPU-limited scenario. Even without checking I am very sure Civilization VI at lowest settings is a CPU-limited test.


That might be, but that doesn't change the fact that these APUs will have very powerful IGPUs. Also, it doesn't outperform it, it just has better 1% lows. Which as you say is possibly down to a CPU bottleneck, though if I were to guess I would say that laptop has a 4c8t CPU and/or poor cooling. If the 1650MQ is from the Blade Stealth (the only laptop I know of using that GPU) that is a very thermally constrained chassis.


----------



## londiste (Apr 5, 2020)

My point was that this handpicked image is wrong to illustrate how powerful Ryzen 4000 series iGPU is. And it is. This type of test is used by almost all reviewers to test CPU, not GPUs.


----------



## yotano211 (Apr 5, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> As impressive as Zen2 mobile is, the laptop market really isn't high-end desktop replacements. That segment makes up less than 5% of the total laptop market.
> 
> No, the vast majority (like 70% or more) is in the $500-1000 thin-and-light market where the 4000U series are about a year and a half overdue already.
> 
> ...


I dont really now how much the higher segment takes up but the higher margins is in high-end laptops. The high-end market really is much more important than you think. Its also about PR, high-end equals more PR to what ever company.


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## Valantar (Apr 5, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> As impressive as Zen2 mobile is, the laptop market really isn't high-end desktop replacements. That segment makes up less than 5% of the total laptop market.
> 
> No, the vast majority (like 70% or more) is in the $500-1000 thin-and-light market where the 4000U series are about a year and a half overdue already.
> 
> ...


If you pay the same for an 8-core as a competing 4-core and it still has a great iGPU, is there anything to complain about?



londiste said:


> My point was that this handpicked image is wrong to illustrate how powerful Ryzen 4000 series iGPU is. And it is. This type of test is used by almost all reviewers to test CPU, not GPUs.


Outside of the 1650 mq it looks like a sensible ranking though, which speaks more of a poor implementation of it than issues with the test itself. Also isn't the CIV CPU test normally turn times and not FPS?


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## ARF (Apr 5, 2020)

londiste said:


> My point was that this handpicked image is wrong to illustrate how powerful Ryzen 4000 series iGPU is. And it is. This type of test is used by almost all reviewers to test CPU, not GPUs.





Valantar said:


> Outside of the 1650 mq it looks like a sensible ranking though, which speaks more of a poor implementation of it than issues with the test itself. Also isn't the CIV CPU test normally turn times and not FPS?



People don't follow guidelines by Intel and Nvidia. Everyone is free to test it the way they would like and think it's appropriate.


----------



## Flanker (Apr 6, 2020)

londiste said:


> Could not care less about laptops. Give me that APU for AM4 already...


Oh desktop APU's will be cool as well. I'll shove them into the smallest itx case I can find


----------



## Valantar (Apr 6, 2020)

Flanker said:


> Oh desktop APU's will be cool as well. I'll shove them into the smallest itx case I can find


It's just too bad we have no hope of matching the iGPU performance of a laptop with LPDDR4X-4266. Now don't get me wrong, one of these is going in my next HTPC (already have the case, a beautiful Lazer3D HT5), I just have to find some good E-die and clock the snot out of it.



ARF said:


> People don't follow guidelines by Intel and Nvidia. Everyone is free to test it the way they would like and think it's appropriate.


That is an extremely silly reply. Has anyone talked about following any guidelines? Don't be daft. The question is whether the benchmark actually measures what it claims to measure in a good way. If a benchmark is supposed to demonstrate iGPU performance it would do its job very poorly if it was limited by CPU performance - as it would then be a measure of CPU performance instead. Now, I'm not the one claiming that that exact benchmark is that CPU bound, but the results of the 1650MQ are indeed (much) lower than expected - so _something_ is bottlenecking it in this benchmark. @londiste uses that to argue that we should discount that benchmark entirely; I'm taking the more cautious approach of saying we shouldn't use that chart to compare the 1650MQ as it seems like a rather extreme outlier. The rest of the results in that chart look reasonable to me, so I don't think it's entirely CPU bound (if it was, the i7-10710U would absolutely trounce the Ryzen 7 3700U, so there's no question that the iGPU plays a large part in those results), but the test is nonetheless a bit weird. The results I posted above are more clear-cut gaming benchmarks.

Edit: typo


----------



## londiste (Apr 6, 2020)

@Valantar, I am not arguing we should discount that. The bottleneck it presents should be investigated and it shouldn't be used as a single example.
And yes, I know laptops are not the easiest thing to test because you cannot play with hardware configuration.

Civilization VI is a bit of a weird one when it comes to benchmarks. Its FPS used to be a pretty bad benchmark, turn times were better. I do think it was fixed at one point. I cannot find a larger or more current sample of Civilization VI results. Anandtech's Bench is using 1080p Ultra on GTX1080: https://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU-2019/2400



ARF said:


> People don't follow guidelines by Intel and Nvidia. Everyone is free to test it the way they would like and think it's appropriate.


I did not say a thing about Intel or Nvidia. Pretty sure that 1650 Max-Q is an Intel+Nvidia system but that is besides the point. I am certain that the same results would happen with say 3750H and RX5500 mobile and my comment would have remained the same.


----------



## Super XP (Apr 6, 2020)

AMD has done a fantastic job, these things should sell very well.


----------



## Valantar (Apr 6, 2020)

londiste said:


> @Valantar, I am not arguing we should discount that. The bottleneck it presents should be investigated and it shouldn't be used as a single example.
> And yes, I know laptops are not the easiest thing to test because you cannot play with hardware configuration.
> 
> Civilization VI is a bit of a weird one when it comes to benchmarks. Its FPS used to be a pretty bad benchmark, turn times were better. I do think it was fixed at one point. I cannot find a larger or more current sample of Civilization VI results. Anandtech's Bench is using 1080p Ultra on GTX1080: https://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU-2019/2400


Definitely agree that it's an odd benchmark - after all, AT's "IGP" settings level is 1080p Ultra, with "Low" being 4k Ultra and "High" being a crazy 16k Ultra (at which point they finally hit a proper GPU bottleneck), so it's not a particularly GPU-heavy game. That still doesn't quite explain the results in the chart (though it might explain why the 1650MQ isn't further ahead, and if it was purely CPU bound regardless of thread numbers the i7-10710U at 25W should beat the 3700U). But yeah, I entirely agree that it shouldn't be used as a single point of data to demonstrate anything in particular, as its too weird a mix of loads, especially for laptops.

@ARF A suggestion: instead of leaving angry  reactions to our posts, maybe try arguing for your opinion? Getting angry at someone arguing against you isn't particularly compelling, and won't change anyone's mind. I would also suggest to stop the straw man arguments - neither of us ever expressed anything even remotely resembling a desire to benchmark anything "follow[ing] guidelines by Intel and Nvidia". Arguing like that is disingenuous; best case scenario it's a serious misunderstanding of what we said, worst case it's a deliberate attempt at making someone who disagrees with you look bad by painting us as biased. Either way, it only serves to make you look bad for doing it. Presenting arguments to back up your opinion is much better.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Apr 6, 2020)

yotano211 said:


> I dont really now how much the higher segment takes up but the higher margins is in high-end laptops. The high-end market really is much more important than you think. Its also about PR, high-end equals more PR to what ever company.


You're right, but in terms of how much effort manufacturers put into marketing and product design, you're definitely confusing high-end with high-performance. There are huge margins in _premium_ stuff but just look at any of the many available shipment trackers or marketshare summaries - the majority of the market is buying 15-25W laptops; Around 70% is ultrabook or cheap thin-and-light models, then 25% is budget plastic netbook crap.

Whether it's premium flagship gaming laptops like the Razer Blade or the cheaper chunky plastic models _where there isn't much profit - pricing is aggressive and margins are slim_ - gaming laptops and laptops with high-end processors are not even close to being as mainstream as your typical 15W ultrabook equivalent. For every one flagship gaming laptop sold with a 35-45W processor, there will be another 15 or so _flagship_ 'ultrabooks' sold without a GPU, and with a 15W processor. Think Dell XPS, HP Spectre, Surface Pro, Blade Stealth etc.



Valantar said:


> If you pay the same for an 8-core as a competing 4-core and it still has a great iGPU, is there anything to complain about?


Absolutely not! As long as the GPU isn't robbed of its power budget like it is with the Ryzen 2000U and 3000U series, then there are no downsides and it's a win-win 

IMO mobile processors with integrated graphics are still too focused on CPU performance when it's graphics that usually limits them the most. Take the old 2700U - it's pretty mediocre as a CPU with it's four cores and 2.2GHz clock. Nonetheless, for the vast majority of people it's fast enough that they won't ever notice the CPU being a bottleneck in day-to-day use. Web browsing, office productivity, media playback, moving files around - the old and slow 2700U is fast enough (even when clamped down to 13W) that nobody is going to care what processor is actually in the laptop. Even media transcoding is something that most people have the cloud do for them now, rather doing it on their own CPU.

These 8C/16T processors will be great for video editors, 3D modellers, architects, engineers, and designers doing renders, and data analysts working on vast datasets. I'm not denying they'll love these new 35-45W Zen2 processors - but they are also not going to care about the IGP until they need to do a GPU-assisted task, in which case the IGP is too weak to be of use, so they'll definitely be buying something with a dGPU instead if they even have to work on a laptop instead of a desktop. The visualisation department at my firm refuses to do anything other than presentations on laptops. Even ignoring the huge performance gulf between a proper workstation and a laptop, they simply need more screen real estate, better connectivity, and more storage than a laptop can reasonably provide. That's why high-performance laptops are a small niche in the sales figures, and therefore why these HS and H APUs are not anywhere near as important to the market as the U-series which is where 95% of the money and marketshare is. As for the data analysts, I work with some of those and they use their Surface Pro to connect to their dataset on a remote server, via a web app. All the heavy lifting is done at a datacenter because that's how industry has moved on in the last few years.


----------



## Super XP (Apr 7, 2020)

Looking forward to Laptops with these new chips in them. 
I am sure they will be more readily available in the coming months.


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## User ! (Apr 9, 2020)

Well...My 4800h laptop is also very powerful...


----------



## ARF (Apr 9, 2020)

User ! said:


> Well...My 4800h laptop is also very powerful...View attachment 150876View attachment 150877View attachment 150878View attachment 150879



Awesome, impressive and beautiful! A 45-watt Ryzen is faster than the desktop parts! Amazing!


----------



## R0H1T (Apr 9, 2020)

User ! said:


> Well...My 4800h *laptop* is also very powerful...View attachment 150876View attachment 150877View attachment 150878View attachment 150879


Hopefully it didn't cost half a kidney & before anyone tries to dissect the joke I'll just ask what was the *price*?


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## londiste (Apr 9, 2020)

@User ! what does it report for the CPU/Package power consumption during benchmark? Also, frequencies?


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## User ! (Apr 9, 2020)

ARF said:


> Awesome, impressive and beautiful! A 45-watt Ryzen is faster than the desktop parts! Amazing!


No exactly.Mobile cpu is limited by 45w,and hence slower than desktop cpu when running long-time heavy load tasks.


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## londiste (Apr 9, 2020)

Any chance you could run this on locked frequency to see how it stacks up with desktop stuff. Say, Cinebench R15 at 2.8GHz so we could compare results with this - https://www.sweclockers.com/test/27760-amd-ryzen-9-3900x-och-7-3700x-matisse/28#content


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## User ! (Apr 9, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Hopefully it didn't cost half a kidney & before anyone tries to dissect the joke I'll just ask what was the *price*?


Amazing price.It only costs me 6599 RMB(roughly 940 dollar).And I get 4800h, 2060, 8g 3200 ram,512g ssd,144hz 45NTSC 1080p 15.6


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## Valantar (Apr 9, 2020)

User ! said:


> Amazing price.It only costs me 6599 RMB(roughly 940 dollar).And I get 4800h, 2060, 8g 3200 ram,512g ssd,144hz 45NTSC 1080p 15.6


Ouch, hope you can upgrade that RAM, 8GB is likely fine today, but in a year or two you will be feeling the squeeze there.


----------



## User ! (Apr 9, 2020)

londiste said:


> @User ! what does it report for the CPU/Package power consumption during benchmark? Also, frequencies?


Running at 60w for few seconds,and drop to 54w for around 5 mins,and finally stabilize at 45w.


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## R0H1T (Apr 9, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Ouch, hope you can upgrade that RAM, 8GB is likely fine today, but in a year or two you will be feeling the squeeze there.


Well considering the worldwide depreciation of currencies, especially against the dollar, that's a hell of a price & great *VFM*!


----------



## User ! (Apr 9, 2020)

londiste said:


> Any chance you could run this on locked frequency to see how it stacks up with desktop stuff. Say, Cinebench R15 at 2.8GHz so we could compare results with this - https://www.sweclockers.com/test/27760-amd-ryzen-9-3900x-och-7-3700x-matisse/28#content


I can't run 4800h on locked freq.Laptop BIOS doesn't offer relative options.Its freq depends on temp&consumption.


----------



## Valantar (Apr 9, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Well considering the worldwide depreciation of currencies, especially against the dollar, that's a hell of a price & great *VFM*!


Did you quote the wrong post?


----------



## R0H1T (Apr 9, 2020)

Not sure, forum bug perhaps?


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## User ! (Apr 9, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Ouch, hope you can upgrade that RAM, 8GB is likely fine today, but in a year or two you will be feeling the squeeze there.


I've updated it with 8g*2 3200 ram.In fact,I get 5% performance increase from dual channel.


----------



## EarthDog (Apr 9, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Not sure, forum bug perhaps?


You aren't sure if you quoted the wrong person? lol


----------



## R0H1T (Apr 9, 2020)

I know who I quoted but not sure what the other poster is seeing. Let's call it a glitch in the "matrix"


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## Valantar (Apr 9, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> I know who I quoted but not sure what the other poster is seeing. Let's call it a glitch in the "matrix"


I was pointing out the fact that your response had no relation whatsoever to what I was saying, only to the post I was responding to.


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## R0H1T (Apr 9, 2020)

Sort of, I was contrasting your reply about 8GB with my point that even with the low_ish_ amount of RAM that was a hell of a bargain in this market ~ where currencies are tumbling across the globe. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if this same config retails for a lot more just a few months down the line.


----------



## Valantar (Apr 9, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Sort of, I was contrasting your reply about 8GB with my point that even with the low_ish_ amount of RAM that was a hell of a bargain in this market ~ where currencies are tumbling across the globe. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if this same config retails for a lot more just a few months down the line.


It's still far more of a standalone response to the post I responded to than a response to mine. Whether or not 8GB is sufficient for gaming and whether or not the laptop is upgradeable isn't a comment on the value of the purchase, just a comment on RAM capacity and the intended use case of the product. That of course relates to value (as a less suitable product is worth less), but only indirectly, and nothing in my post indicated that I wanted to comment on this. It's generally a good practice to not read too much into what you read that isn't explicitly there unless there is significant reason to point out subtext, and, well, I'd say you jumped the gun a bit there. In fact I'd say it's rather a stretch to comment on the value for money of a gaming laptop with just 8GB of RAM until you know whether it's upgradeable or not, as that would drastically affect its in-use value and longevity. Which, you know, is part of why I didn't touch on that.


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## R0H1T (Apr 9, 2020)

Alright, have it your way ~ it was in response to the other poster, using your post to make a point or contrast in this case. If I did have more to say then I'd have added relevant bits in the last page.


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## Super XP (Apr 9, 2020)

Hardware prices should be falling not going up. People and companies should not be taking advantage of people that are losing there jobs for example.


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## R0H1T (Apr 9, 2020)

If only there was such a utopia, alas


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## ARF (Apr 9, 2020)

Super XP said:


> Hardware prices should be falling not going up. People and companies should not be taking advantage of people that are losing there jobs for example.




That's speculative pricing but naturally  it's going to be corrected by the demand/supply mechanism.


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## EarthDog (Apr 9, 2020)

Super XP said:


> Hardware prices should be falling not going up. People and companies should not be taking advantage of people that are losing there jobs for example.


I mean, that would be nice... but the world (business) doesnt work that way, sadly. It isnt just as easy as lower prices because people are struggling. They are for profit businesses and today, many cant give away pennies.


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## Super XP (Apr 10, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> I mean, that would be nice... but the world (business) doesnt work that way, sadly. It isnt just as easy as lower prices because people are struggling. They are for profit businesses and today, many cant give away pennies.


In a pandemic with people losing jobs and not much $$$ around, it would make sense to not price gouge no? Because that illegal. Based on pandemic legislation.


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## EarthDog (Apr 10, 2020)

Super XP said:


> In a pandemic with people losing jobs and not much $$$ around, it would make sense to not price gouge no? Because that illegal. Based on pandemic legislation.


Who's price gouging computer parts?


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## Valantar (Apr 10, 2020)

Super XP said:


> In a pandemic with people losing jobs and not much $$$ around, it would make sense to not price gouge no? Because that illegal. Based on pandemic legislation.





EarthDog said:


> Who's price gouging computer parts?


Yeah, I don't think anyone is. Prices will go up, but that's because sales go down, forcing companies to increase prices to maintain margins. That's not gouging, even if it is problematic in and of itself. It's just how unregulated commodity markets tend to work.


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## Super XP (Apr 10, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Yeah, I don't think anyone is. Prices will go up, but that's because sales go down, forcing companies to increase prices to maintain margins. That's not gouging, even if it is problematic in and of itself. It's just how unregulated commodity markets tend to work.



Under the Price Gouging Prevention Act, the FTC would be empowered to enforce a ban on excessive price increases of consumer goods during national emergencies. *It would have to consider any price increase above 10% to be price gouging during such a declaration.* The House bill was crafted based on a similar California law for statewide emergencies. 








						Warren and Harris introduce Senate bill to crack down on price gouging during the coronavirus pandemic
					

The bill is a companion to legislation from Rep. Joe Neguse, D-Colo., and would allow the FTC to enforce a price gouging ban.




					www.cnbc.com


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## EarthDog (Apr 10, 2020)

Super XP said:


> Under the Price Gouging Prevention Act, the FTC would be empowered to enforce a ban on excessive price increases of consumer goods during national emergencies. *It would have to consider any price increase above 10% to be price gouging during such a declaration.* The House bill was crafted based on a similar California law for statewide emergencies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I dont see this as a rampant issue.


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## Valantar (Apr 10, 2020)

Super XP said:


> Under the Price Gouging Prevention Act, the FTC would be empowered to enforce a ban on excessive price increases of consumer goods during national emergencies. *It would have to consider any price increase above 10% to be price gouging during such a declaration.* The House bill was crafted based on a similar California law for statewide emergencies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Price gouging is generally when someone turns up the prices of a product amid a shortage or explosive growth of demand to maximise profits. If, on the other hand, economic circumstances force companies to demand higher prices to cover their costs, that is not price gouging. What happens (a price increase) is not the criterion for whether something is gouging, but rather the specific intent behind it and the form it takes. A gradual upwards creep of prices as sales drop is not and will never be price gouging.

That is of course not to say that price gouging laws aren't unequivocally a good thing - just like other consumer protection laws - but they need to be crafted in such a way as to catch what they are intended to catch and not be too broad.


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