# Is there any real world performance difference going from this ram to this ram



## trt740 (Oct 7, 2010)

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 ... to this Mushkin Enhanced Redline 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR...


not benching but real world performance?


----------



## EastCoasthandle (Oct 7, 2010)

You may see some differences when using winrar, etc.  But why not get the ECO series?


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 7, 2010)

trt740 said:


> G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 ... to this Mushkin Enhanced Redline 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR...
> 
> 
> not benching but real world performance?



It will make a slight difference. You'll notice windows loads a wee bit faster, apps and stuff will pop up quicker, slightly, but you'll really have to look for it. TRCD still @ 9 does lessen the impact.


----------



## trt740 (Oct 7, 2010)

I suspected as much. It is fast as hell already. Might be smarter to just add another 4 gb of the cheap stuff. Although from what I read all that does is improve load times slightly.


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 7, 2010)

Yeah, that might be better, but it will affect both NB and cpu clocks, running 8GB.

It's slight...I really do notice a difference from 1333CAS9 to 1333CAS6, seems like 5-10 seconds get shaved off of boot time.

I have been running 8GB for some time now...it's too much. I barely go over 4.5GB while gaming. IF I could run 2x2GB sticks, and 2x512MB, I would, as it would lessen load on memory controller, and might allow for higher clocks.


I think Intel had the right idea with triple-channel, and 6GB, when it comes to my memory usage.


----------



## Super Sarge (Oct 7, 2010)

You get what you pay for, I run my 12 Gig of Mushkin Relines at 1660MHz 7 8 7 24 1T @ 1.62 V Latency is <50ns


----------



## trt740 (Oct 7, 2010)

Super Sarge said:


> You get what you pay for, I run my 12 Gig of Mushkin Relines at 1660MHz 7 8 7 24 1T @ 1.62 V Latency is <50ns



and *is there any real world difference other than benching*? From what I'm reading sounds like you have nice ram that makes almost no performance difference, other than in benchmarks or am I wrong? Seems you could have saved a boat load of money buying cheaper ram and received near the same performance. If this isn't right correct me. Having said this your ram might allow a higher N/B or stable overclock because it's better binned, but maybe not. These are the questions going through my mind. 


    My case 9 DDR3 1600 seems to allow a very decent overclock and is very quick in the real world. So I'm not sure if it is worth the money difference.


----------



## mastrdrver (Oct 8, 2010)

The noticeable thing for me is improve snappy response from the system. It feels like going from a HP, Dell, etc pc to something a little quicker. In everything too. The more memory intense the program the more you will notice it.

edit: Although I should add that the Mushkin isn't worth the money with the terrible tRCD timing. Especially on an AMD. These Ripjaws with promo HARDOCP106C

Not sure if your board supports them but if they do then that will be a lot better.


----------



## TIGR (Oct 8, 2010)

I build a few systems a week (that's my job) and have a lot of opportunities to compare components side by side. The impact of memory speed and latency on real world performance is one of the things I've tested most extensively, both myself and by doing blind tests with other people trying different setups out and telling me if they detect a difference.

Flat out, no. You would need a stopwatch and an operation that takes a _long_ time to complete in order to detect the difference. To me, that does not qualify as a "real world performance difference."


----------



## qubit (Oct 8, 2010)

All the comparative reviews I've ever seen of RAM modules only shows something like a 5% difference between the best and worst. Hardly noticeable in practice and hardly worth shelling out so much money for it in my book.

Part of the reason the difference is so slight, is that the CPU and memory controller minimize the impact of latency and slower-running RAM as much as possible and do a pretty good job of it, too.

BTW, this is post 2000.


----------



## TIGR (Oct 8, 2010)

qubit said:


> Part of the reason the difference is so slight, is that the CPU and memory controller minimize the impact of latency and slower-running RAM as much as possible and do a pretty good job of it, too.
> 
> BTW, this is post 2000.



Well said, and congrats.


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 8, 2010)

AMD and INtel handle memory different, boys. Far larger impact on AMD than Intel.


----------



## trt740 (Oct 9, 2010)

mastrdrver said:


> The noticeable thing for me is improve snappy response from the system. It feels like going from a HP, Dell, etc pc to something a little quicker. In everything too. The more memory intense the program the more you will notice it.
> 
> edit: Although I should add that the Mushkin isn't worth the money with the terrible tRCD timing. Especially on an AMD. These Ripjaws with promo HARDOCP106C
> 
> Not sure if your board supports them but if they do then that will be a lot better.



I'm not sure I understand the timing part these red lines run at 6-8-6-24 T1 and the Ripjaws you posted are Cas7 7 7 24 T1 what makes them faster?


----------



## mastrdrver (Oct 9, 2010)

Like I said, AMDs are sensitive to timings especially once you push the cpu-nb up over stock. With a tRCD of 8, the best you're going to get tRAS is 24. With the Ripjaws it could be possible to run 21 tRCD if the board and ram like each other.

Just noticed what board you have and it will not boot anything 1600mhz at lower than cas 8 with the 4x multiplier and cas 7 is the limit with the 3.33x multiplier. So the Redlines are a waste as you're never going to get cas 6 unless you use the 2.66x multiplier. This is a hardware limit of the board so there is no getting around it. I have it too.


----------



## trt740 (Oct 9, 2010)

mastrdrver said:


> Like I said, AMDs are sensitive to timings especially once you push the cpu-nb up over stock. With a tRCD of 8, the best you're going to get tRAS is 24. With the Ripjaws it could be possible to run 21 tRCD if the board and ram like each other.
> 
> Just noticed what board you have and it will not boot anything 1600mhz at lower than cas 8 with the 4x multiplier and cas 7 is the limit with the 3.33x multiplier. So the Redlines are a waste as you're never going to get cas 6 unless you use the 2.66x multiplier. This is a hardware limit of the board so there is no getting around it. I have it too.



Well then they will do ddr3 2000+ at cas 7 and ddr3 2000+ at cas 8 so that should work. I don't know but I just bought some redline and if they don't work out, back they go. I want them mostly to see if my oc becomes higher. They are supposed to be able to reach crazy speeds besides tight timing at the lower end. I will send the back if I cannot see any difference.


----------



## mastrdrver (Oct 9, 2010)

You won't be doing 2000mhz on that board or with an AMD cpu. Maybe if your subzero or have a cherry X6 otherwise, no.

The board is what is limiting you on your memory overclock.


----------



## trt740 (Oct 9, 2010)

mastrdrver said:


> You won't be doing 2000mhz on that board or with an AMD cpu. Maybe if your subzero or have a cherry X6 otherwise, no.
> 
> The board is what is limiting you on your memory overclock.



I'm not so sure it does 1800 + already. It also says on the web site it will as long as the memory is in slots 3 and 4. If not no big deal it a great board 8+2 power and has no problem hitting 4.0ghz on the core and 3000+ N/B. I currently use N/b 2750 because it allow a more well rounded overclock of everything but it is a great board. My last X6 did 3000+ N/B with my current memory. I will try it and who knows even if it does 88824 T1 1666 and allows a higher overclock or a more stable one then thats fine. It is stable as hell already. Heck Master your very knowledgeable about ram maybe you can help me tweak it. Is 8 8 8 24 t1 reasonable. If not what do you think is.


Here is my board ,however, it is all blue and seems to be a newer color scheme but same revision as listed here.  http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3010#ov


----------



## mastrdrver (Oct 9, 2010)

Are you sure it is not the 790XTA? I have a really hard time believing 1800+ on the board you have listed in your specs as *no one* has been able to do that because of physical limitations of the board. Though I don't know of many who have a X6 on that board either.

What bios are you on and do you have a CPUz validation (just because I'm curious).


----------



## cheezburger (Oct 9, 2010)

i'd take redline over ripjaw because of latency of 6-8-6-24 is more attracted then ripjaw's 9-9-9-24-2N and latency will be serious impact to stock performance.  but if you tend to overclock  then gkills may be better choice because of higher latency.


----------



## trt740 (Oct 9, 2010)

mastrdrver said:


> Are you sure it is not the 790XTA? I have a really hard time believing 1800+ on the board you have listed in your specs as *no one* has been able to do that because of physical limitations of the board. Though I don't know of many who have a X6 on that board either.
> 
> What bios are you on and do you have a CPUz validation (just because I'm curious).



I don't have it anymore but it is on a 1099t thread here some place I will see if I can find it and several people on Xtreme have hit well over 1800 on this board. Also my board looks exactly like that motherboard it's all blue but it's not that board it's the one I have listed.


----------



## erocker (Oct 9, 2010)

A while ago in the Mushkin support thread I asked about the Redlines and Shawn said they weren't for AMD. Look for a set that does support AMD with tighter timings and you will notice a difference. You need to make sure that your CPU/NB is clocked to at least 2.6ghz as well.

Have you tried tightening up the timings on your RipJaws?


----------



## trt740 (Oct 9, 2010)

erocker said:


> A while ago in the Mushkin support thread I asked about the Redlines and Shawn said they weren't for AMD. Look for a set that does support AMD with tighter timings and you will notice a difference. You need to make sure that your CPU/NB is clocked to at least 2.6ghz as well.
> 
> Have you tried tightening up the timings on your RipJaws?



won't tighten , and they won't tighten on any reviews either.


----------



## erocker (Oct 9, 2010)

This set is better/cheaper: GeIL Ultra PLUS 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM D...


----------



## mastrdrver (Oct 9, 2010)

trt740 said:


> I don't have it anymore but it is on a 1099t thread here some place I will see if I can find it and several people on Xtreme have hit well over 1800 on this board. Also my board looks exactly like that motherboard it's all blue but it's not that board it's the one I have listed.



Can you link the XS thread then? What bios are you also?

I ask because I'm thinking about getting a X6 for that board and wonder how overclocking support is for it.

edit: 





erocker said:


> This set is better/cheaper: GeIL Ultra PLUS 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM D...



Oh that's very nice for the price.


----------



## trt740 (Oct 9, 2010)

mastrdrver said:


> Can you link the XS thread then? What bios are you also?
> 
> I ask because I'm thinking about getting a X6 for that board and wonder how overclocking support is for it.



sure but it is also for the ddr2 version


----------



## DaMulta (Oct 9, 2010)

Just buy the cheap crap when it comes to memory for real world performance difference in all most ALL CASES. More GB the better is the only real thing to look at.

If you want REAL world performance increase....buy a fast SSD.....


----------



## trt740 (Oct 10, 2010)

checked my box has a blue motherboard with blue and orange video card slots and  green IDE but my board is completely blue and has no other colors but is the same motherboard just a different color scheme. Makes me wonder if it not a different board flashed with a UDP4 bios and bios is the only difference.

Per my box I have a MA790XTUD4P rev1.0


----------



## mastrdrver (Oct 10, 2010)

Well if it was then it would say what it really was on the board itself but you're giving me hope for using it with a X6.Here is some AMD approved Mushkin

Anything faster than cas8 on that board is a waste for the 4x multiplier.


----------



## trt740 (Oct 10, 2010)

mastrdrver said:


> Well if it was then it would say what it really was on the board itself but you're giving me hope for using it with a X6.Here is some AMD approved Mushkin
> 
> Anything faster than cas8 on that board is a waste for the 4x multiplier.



my old 1090T did N/B 3000+ at 4.0 ghz but my new one won't . I had a old thread on it but cannot find it with screen shots. I'm on my dual core atom now once my 10 year gets off nancy drew I will let ya know.


it also says the same on the board.


----------



## trt740 (Oct 10, 2010)

Okay here is a quick one for you with my crappy cas 9 ram. Pardon my 10 years olds art work. Here it at ddr3 1800 and that the best this ram will do in just about any board according to the reviews.


----------



## mastrdrver (Oct 10, 2010)

I know we're getting a little off topic but.....

What kind of voltage did you need for 3000 cpu-nb?

Back on topic......

I'll run a few PCMark Vanatge runs on my MSI board to see if anything shows up as far as timings, etc. I've done this before briefly but can't remember the results for sure.

While I'm not sure I've been under the presumption that on the 4x multiplier cas 8 is the limit, cas 7 for 3.33x, cas 6 for 2.66x and these are limitations not dependent on the cpu but because of the way Gigabyte made the board. No bios, cpu, hard mod, etc will be able to get around these limits.

Nice artwork btw. Looks like your 10 yr old has an artistic mind.


----------



## trt740 (Oct 10, 2010)

mastrdrver said:


> I know we're getting a little off topic but.....
> 
> What kind of voltage did you need for 3000 cpu-nb?
> 
> ...



On my old chip it was 1.375v I think.


okay update after a bit of tweaking this chip is turning out to be very good.







*After messing around this 1090T isn't as good as my old one it won't prime at those setting above but it will prime at 3.950 with a N/B of 2911 at 1.488v and the cpu to N/B at 1.4v. My old one did 3000+ at 4.0ghz with 1.375v cpu to N/B vid.*

This is going to prime and I'm still testing.


----------



## trt740 (Oct 13, 2010)

*Well these Redlines just came 5 minutes ago and they are running at the right speed*









first try with really loose timing for 2000, will tighten it later








I haven't tried higher yet but I will later on


----------



## yogurt_21 (Oct 13, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> AMD and INtel handle memory different, boys. Far larger impact on AMD than Intel.



and it's been that way since ddr memory came out. 

-Intel go for the highest clocked memory you can get don't worry too much about timings but don't expect good performance if you go super loose.

-AMD go for a decent clocked but conservatively timed set, don't head for the extreme in either sense but find a balance.


at least that's been my experience

imo I'd try bumping the volts and seeing if I could drop that tRCD and tRAS down as well. if you can get them to run on 6-6-6-18 you'll see a nice result in load times, boot times, etc. not necessarily gaming though.


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 13, 2010)

PSC doesn't do 6-6-6.


----------



## trt740 (Oct 14, 2010)

I spoke too soon this ram does make a difference when run at 6 8 6 24 t1 from 9 9 9 24 t2. It is  noticeably faster in windows and the more I use it the more I notice it .


----------



## yogurt_21 (Oct 14, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> PSC doesn't do 6-6-6.



 bummer



trt740 said:


> I spoke too soon this ram does make a difference when run at 6 8 6 24 t1 from 9 9 9 24 t2. It is  noticeably faster in windows and the more I use it the more I notice it .



well that's nice, and a good thing to know. looking at parts for jan/feb myself.


----------



## Tatty_One (Oct 14, 2010)

TIGR said:


> I build a few systems a week (that's my job) and have a lot of opportunities to compare components side by side. The impact of memory speed and latency on real world performance is one of the things I've tested most extensively, both myself and by doing blind tests with other people trying different setups out and telling me if they detect a difference.
> 
> Flat out, no. You would need a stopwatch and an operation that takes a _long_ time to complete in order to detect the difference. To me, that does not qualify as a "real world performance difference."



100% agreement there, I used to have two 6gb kits of DDR3 1600 mhz, one rated at CL7, one at CL8, I have set them both to CL8, ran the one kit at 1500mhz and the other at 1800mhz and can not see the slightest difference in anything.


Originally Posted by trt740  
*I spoke too soon this ram does make a difference when run at 6 8 6 24 t1 from 9 9 9 24 t2. It is noticeably faster in windows and the more I use it the more I notice it . *
Ahhhh right, now your talking about latencies not speed (which i thought you were before), yes if you combine the 2, depending on platform to a certain degree..... you will see some differences.


----------



## trt740 (Oct 17, 2010)

yes this is very good ram. These redlines run very tight.


----------

