# Do extra speakers make sense in a non-surround environment



## EntropyZ (Mar 18, 2019)

I don't know how to formulate this question correctly so here goes. If I get the same type of bookshelf speakers and add them to the existing ones that I have, would the listening experience be better?

I'm currently with Edifier 1280T 2.0 bookshelf speakers (they are really affected by the way they are facing concerning highs and mids). And was wondering if a second set would make the sound more fuller, or do I have to replace the set with better speakers to get any advantage.

The room I'm in is fairly small, so they do the job, but I have to turn up the volume quite a bit to hear/enjoy some of the faint sounds inside a music track (usually the mids). This is never a problem with headphones, but with speakers I need to crank them up to get a similar sensation.


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## Frederik S (Mar 28, 2019)

You are probably better off trying to get them into a better position in the room. This covers the basics: https://www.dynaudio.pl/home-audio/...support/manual/en/positioning-the-loudspeaker 

Getting them away from the wall could reduce the bass and thereby reduce masking of the midrange. You could also use an equalizer for this.

A second set would be a good idea if you needed more volume or bass. Adding more sets add potential issues with phase and comb filtering.


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 28, 2019)

Nope.  Sounds like what you want is bi-amp which is something a receiver does and your speakers need to support (separates mids from highs).

The main problem with more speakers is that the power per split channel falls unless your amplification set up is complicated.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Mar 28, 2019)

Try some with higher sensitivity, more clout for the same power.


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 28, 2019)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Nope.  Sounds like what you want is bi-amp which is something a receiver does and your speakers need to support (separates mids from highs).
> 
> The main problem with more speakers is that the power per split channel falls unless your amplification set up is complicated.



You can do passive crossover. The cheapest thing in this case. But with weak results.

The room is small, it does NOT really matter how are they positioned. Reflections from the wall will mesh things up. 

In reality... throw the speakers out get high sensivity speakers. Paper cone in your case if you want the mid details. Quite hard tbh.


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## Frederik S (Mar 28, 2019)

It is active speakers and they even have an integrated equalizer so try that to begin with. Small or big room, room gain has big effect on what you hear. How you position the speakers also have a big effect, if you place them in a bookshelf, top of a shelf, free standing on a dedicated stand it changes things quite a bit. It will not turn them into high-end speakers, but it might iron out a few issues.


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## Komshija (Mar 28, 2019)

Various objects in the room can also distort sound. Since these are 2.0 speakers, the most important thing is to make sufficient space between them. Ideal space depends on your room size, bit I would position them 1,2-1,5 m apart.

If you are an audiophile, forget about 2.0 and 2.1 systems and go straight towards 5.1 or 7.1. There are good 5.1 speakers with acceptable price, eg. Logitech Z506.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Mar 28, 2019)

You don't need 2.1+ for good sound quality at all, it all depends what you use the sound system for. For mostly music and a few films in a small room a good 2.0 setup can be very good. Here is what I am using, and believe me i sounds much better than it probably looks. Its a topping VX2 connected by optical digital, and some very nice little teac speakers. I have tried 5.1 in the past and unless your room is right, it is a nightmare of mounting speakers and cables everywhere.


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 28, 2019)

tigger said:


> You don't need 2.1+ for good sound quality at all



I am with your here. Actually Audiophile and 5.1 or 7.1 are not usable in the same sentence.

I think some can't understand that the OP doesn't want to make the roof bouncing. Vice versa. He wants high resolution at low volume. You can put them anywhere you want it will not help. The gimmics putting it not close to wall distance is when really you are pumping them louder and the speaker design. But in a small room, that's a no no in general unless the room is sound dampened.

So.. as usual... we have to poke our noses into speaker graph and their curves. Here's a thread about those speakers.

A proper review.
https://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/acoustic-roundup-july-2014.shtml

So lets look at my beloved graphs. Default and with the tone control knobs. As we see the bass attenuation is upped by default, to get it flat you have to turn bass down, thus at same volume the mid and highs will be on the same level, so you can compare it with more linear headphones like 1:1 and trying to hear the same things. As we see from the graph the crossover from the speaker to tweeter at 5K is made like amateur shit. 5KHz means guitar, cymbals, voice an those are -6dB that is two times silent.  The phase inverter is on the front thus it can be put at the wall, the resonant frequency is very high for it tho, but they are small ones also, the amp will choke otherwise. Also silk dome tweeter, so the sound wave goes evenly at a wide angle, directionality is not a concern for these. It is a heavy rubber speaker... so inheritably it is numb unless you up it to eleven.

















Conclusion... pull the lows to minimum and highs a bit up. That's the best you can do without changing the speakers really.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 28, 2019)

Need software/drivers and possibly a channeling equalizer.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Mar 28, 2019)

Them speakers to put it bluntly are shit. 

Imo what the OP needs is a nice small quality desktop amp and speakers like i use.

https://wiki.ezvid.com/best-mini-stereo-amplifiers


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 28, 2019)

tigger said:


> Them speakers to put it bluntly are shit.
> 
> Imo what the OP needs is a nice small quality desktop amp and speakers like i use.
> 
> https://wiki.ezvid.com/best-mini-stereo-amplifiers



Only if EAX had gained steam...

Or is it done through OpenAL?


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 28, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> Only if EAX had gained steam...
> 
> Or is it done through OpenAL?



What are you smoking dude. Sharing is caring.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 28, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> What are you smoking dude. Sharing is caring.



Fyi I don't do dope, marijuana, etc.

Ok Alchemy was released during Vista but I don't hear much about EAX anymore or Alchemy...

Games and movies have to recognize that surroundsound is present. EAX was supposed to be good for forward center, left and right, center left and right, aft center, left and right.


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## SoNic67 (Mar 28, 2019)

When the room is small, the only option is using good headphones. 
IMO, the open back ones are better for audio quality, do not color the sound as much as closed back ones.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Mar 28, 2019)

No room is too small for speakers


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 28, 2019)

tigger said:


> No room is too small for speakers



Thats why i still have x-230s


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 29, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> Fyi I don't do dope, marijuana, etc.
> 
> Ok Alchemy was released during Vista but I don't hear much about EAX anymore or Alchemy...
> 
> Games and movies have to recognize that surroundsound is present. EAX was supposed to be good for forward center, left and right, center left and right, aft center, left and right.



Because you are posting things that make zero sense with this thread. For music there is no need for HW acceleration for 3D effects.

Rooms can be too small. Imaging putting a 1kw in your toilet... The white throne could crack from it.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Mar 29, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> Because you are posting things that make zero sense with this thread. For music there is no need for HW acceleration for 3D effects.
> 
> Rooms can be too small. Imaging putting a 1kw in your toilet... The white throne could crack from it.



If the room was too small, why would you set your PC up in it? Look at the pic of my speakers and amp, they would fit into nearly any room, and it is 30WPC so easily enough power.


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## Vayra86 (Mar 29, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> Because you are posting things that make zero sense with this thread. For music there is no need for HW acceleration for 3D effects.
> 
> Rooms can be too small. Imaging putting a 1kw in your toilet... The white throne could crack from it.



Hehe some famous record stores disagree with that sentiment  Black Market Records @ London would like a word... A few years back they had about 1.5kw in a tiny basement. Not directly audiophile oriented of course, but hey.

I do recognize the problems with bookshelf speakers. I had a duo of Magnat ones in a relatively small room for years and similar problems, listening position is key to really have that sweet spot sense, and its easy to screw up. For those I basically had to use a triangle approach; facing the speakers somewhat toward the middle, which at higher volume is horrible. Since then I've hooked up my 5.1 (2.1) and no problems + better overall experience and most notably lows. Getting good lows out of bookshelf speakers is not easy and you are going to miss some depth compared to a x.1 setup. That only goes away if you really go bigger with 2.0; or a serious high end speaker.

My experience with this is that its easier to get a comfortable listening experience with surround speakers. Even if you use them just as a 2.1 set. I never play music over a 5.1 output.


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 29, 2019)

tigger said:


> If the room was too small, why would you set your PC up in it? Look at the pic of my speakers and amp, they would fit into nearly any room, and it is 30WPC so easily enough power.



30W are enough, fully agree. They can fit any room yes, albeit how it will perform? It is quite complicated.



Vayra86 said:


> Hehe some famous record stores disagree with that sentiment  Black Market Records @ London would like a word... A few years back they had about 1.5kw in a tiny basement. Not directly audiophile oriented of course, but hey.



Don't mix professional audio. There are funny venues in the basement, concrete and stone, you can smoke few KW there and nothing, the sound travels through and usually the shaking and lamp swinging is felt in neighbor houses, but not there. That's the problem with small rooms actually.

Down to earth again.
Surround works for moderate sized rooms and up. Otherwise it will be a mess also, and the wires, clutter already in a small room. It defeats the purpose. Doubling speaker amount with the same signal will give only additional +6dB in ideal mathematical case, in reality it is lower, also it will not solve the OP's problem with sensitivity problems at certain frequency range. Nor the lack of power. The poor guy will spend one some multichannel setup and gain nothing from that.

The thing he needs are ultra sensitive paper cone speakers. Like Fostex full rangers for example, sensitivity more than 95dB, and we could call it case closed. I have driven a 12inchers with 105dB sensitivity form a headphone output... the results were not that terrible.

ADD.

Further arguments about the current speaker setup. It is horrible. You use motherboard audio. Around 97dB SNR, then to the Texan budget and already vintage PCM1808  ADC screwing the sound with theoretical max 99dB it feeds the digital data to the class D amp TAS5713... the sound gets resampled 3x times. That's not the best solution. It could result in loss of details.


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