# AMD Designing Next-Gen Playstation's GPU



## btarunr (Feb 24, 2012)

Sony has begun working on its next-generation gaming console under the Playstation brand, and Forbes learned that it's none other than AMD designing its graphics processing unit (GPU). AMD is far from new to the game console GPU business, as its GPUs already drive graphics processing in Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii consoles. If launched anytime soon, the next-gen Playstation will create a rare moment where GPUs of all three major game console makers would be AMD-made. The current Playstation 3 console uses an NVIDIA GPU.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Cybrnook (Feb 24, 2012)

Conflict of interest?


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## leonard_222003 (Feb 24, 2012)

We all know why they chose AMD , because they were cheaper.
Not to say they are worst than Nvidia , considering they need raw power and not sophisticated CUDA, physx or some other gimmicks ,  then AMD is really a no brainer , decent arhitecture in an envoriment where it will be properly optimized to the last drop of performance.


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## James1o1o (Feb 24, 2012)

Does this mean its going to perform less than Sony make it out to? 

EDIT: Completely read that as CPU and not GPU. Forgive me, AMD make half decent GPU's.


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## Delta6326 (Feb 24, 2012)

And AMD is almost always less power hungry with less heat. I just hope they don't chose some old crappy gpu.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 24, 2012)

So NVIDIA has lower yelds and lost all the console market and is losing laptop market share in leaps and bounds.......not looking good for the green team.


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## OneCool (Feb 24, 2012)

WOW!

Thats 3 very big contract to have 

Didnt I read some where the the Wii 2 will also be AMD?


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## Zakin (Feb 24, 2012)

If I remember right the Wii U already confirmed to be running ATI, as well as many rumors that the 360 successor will run ATI as well due to the success it had on the 360. Seems to be quite the monopoly then.

http://www.guru3d.com/news/xbox-720-will-get-gpu-based-on-radeon-6670/

There's the article, granted it's quite a letdown if that's true, already aged tech going into a console that won't be out till more than likely the 9000s hit.


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## Athlon2K15 (Feb 24, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> So NVIDIA has lower yelds and lost all the console market and is losing laptop market share in leaps and bounds.......not looking good for the green team.



They havent lost the entire console market,it was rumored the new xbox will have an nvidia gpu. most likely something comparable to a 4 series but none the less nvidia


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## Benetanegia (Feb 24, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> So NVIDIA has lower yelds and lost all the console market and is losing laptop market share in leaps and bounds.......not looking good for the green team.



And yet they will make 2x as much money as the entire AMD, as usual. 

Now seriously. The console market is not very profitable for AMD/Nvidia, it's a very low margin market, so I don't think it's going to affect them much, compared to say gaining (or losing!) some ground in the GPU market, consumer and professional.

Nvidia is talking about more laptop design wins than ever before for Kepler. If true that angle is covered.

And regarding yields we don't know if they are lower than AMD's, lower enough to mean anything I mean. All they said is that they had lower than expected* yields, which is not to say the rest are not in the same boat. Like always the media has overdramatized a comment that was only suposed to explain why operating expenses went from $330-something to $380-something millions. At least that's what I read on the situation.

* Remember that Nvidia talked about not doing a paperlaunch, and they are going to (try to) release the entire lineup in 2-3 months (AMD in ~5-6 depending on when you start counting), that's a lot of chips in a short period and ANY yield problem, any yield lower than expected can affect you much more in this situation. Also remember that in the discreet GPU market Nvidia still has >60% market share and they want to retain it so they will need to launch more cards. They always release with a higher number of cards than AMD.


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## the54thvoid (Feb 24, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> So NVIDIA has lower yelds and lost all the console market and is losing laptop market share in leaps and bounds.......not looking good for the green team.



Nvidia is puhing Tegra (3) so hard right now it almost seems as though they have chosen their new path.  

Then again, they are also still pushing CUDA very hard.  And i think they're still very much HPC orientated with their designs.  Amost as if the desktop market is an issue of pride more than design pedigree.

I just want Kepler info so I can go ahead and reassuredly buy my 7970.


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## ZoneDymo (Feb 24, 2012)

AthlonX2 said:


> They havent lost the entire console market,it was rumored the new xbox will have an nvidia gpu. most likely something comparable to a 4 series but none the less nvidia



Did you even read the article?
Its pretty much confirmed the Xbox720 or "durango" will use and AMD gpu, hell we already have a rumer floating arround of the specific type of AMD GPU, an HD6670.


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## LDNL (Feb 24, 2012)

You know what, im glad that consoles choose AMD over Nvidia. Lets see how many controllers get thrown to the wall when each game requires 2-3 driver updates


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## Athlon2K15 (Feb 24, 2012)

LDNL said:


> You know what, im glad that consoles choose AMD over Nvidia. Lets see how many controllers get thrown to the wall when each game requires 2-3 driver updates



 or every game will just look muddy and washed out.


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## Zakin (Feb 24, 2012)

I'd agree except that Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft are the ones that manage the drivers for that hardware last I checked, nor do I recall any issues with the few 360 games I have played granted I hate the console in general.


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## cheesy999 (Feb 24, 2012)

LDNL said:


> You know what, im glad that consoles choose AMD over Nvidia. Lets see how many controllers get thrown to the wall when each game requires 2-3 driver updates



I own the current Xbox and i can't remember a game this year that didn't require 1 or 2 updates out the box just to play, so no change there 

Sony isn't that much better, about 60% of the games i've played on my playstation required an update as well

Can't remember the same ever happening on my Nintendo consoles


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## Zakin (Feb 24, 2012)

All games now a days are rushed, to be quite fair most of those updates are bug fixes that don't relate to performance at all but game breaking glitches that developers ended up rushing out of the door because publishers forced them to. Same thing happens on PC, games get about a billion patches within the first two months due to publisher pressure. It's a lot different on the Nintendo consoles because those games are a lot simpler for developers to make, also the Wii uses an ATI GPU as well sooo yeah. Although the new Zelda had a game breaking bug that Nintendo had to resolve by actually patching the Wii game for the first time ever.


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## TC-man (Feb 24, 2012)

Well, it's not only that AMD is cheaper, it's also that Sony learns from its mistake, since the Nvidia's RSX gpu for the PS3 is just a modified Geforce 7800gt with reduced ROPs, I believe. AMD (ATI) designed a totally new and more advanced gpu (Xenos) for the Xbox 360 with embedded memory and unified shader architecture and all, and the result was evident, even now when compared to PS3 graphics in games, especially in most cross-platform games that are available for both console.


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## HossHuge (Feb 24, 2012)

I'm sure this chart plays a big role in the choice as well.


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## btarunr (Feb 24, 2012)

OneCool said:


> WOW!
> 
> Thats 3 very big contract to have
> 
> Didnt I read some where the the Wii 2 will also be AMD?



Yes, the WiiU also uses an AMD GPU.

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/14/wii-u-graphics-chip-outed-as-last-gen-radeon-which-is-still-pre/

Next-gen Xbox "Durango" also uses an AMD GPU. 

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/consoles/super-powerful-xbox-720-chip-enters-production-1057384


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## theonedub (Feb 24, 2012)

If Sony ends up sticking with the PS3 design for the  PS4 (as in using the Cell arc but using more of them), the GPU won't be extremely important. The AAA titles right now, like Uncharted 3, don't rely heavily on the GPU as much as they do on leveraging SPUs.


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## Zakin (Feb 24, 2012)

Sony was rumoring about dropping Cell arc due to the developer stress that it was causing and going back to normal multi-core solutions. Thus why you'll see rumors going around that the PS4 will run 16-cores and such.


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## Benetanegia (Feb 24, 2012)

TC-man said:


> Well, it's not only that AMD is cheaper, it's also that Sony learns from its mistake, since the Nvidia's RSX gpu for the PS3 is just a modified Geforce 7800gt with reduced ROPs, I believe.



Yeah but there was a reason for that and had nothing to do with Nvidia. Sony wanted Cell to do the graphics. When they realized that was stupid and Cell had nothing to do against a true GPU, they asked Nvidia to make them one ASAP and with such a short time they agreed to RSX.

Sony learned from its mistake, but it has nothing to do AMD or Nvidia's competence, they learned and went to a GPU directly. 

And they go AMD in part because they can "bully" them, just as M$ did. Both Sony (PS3) and M$ (Xbox) reached agreement with Nvidia for a certain GPU at a certain price at a certain date. Nvidia delivered, but when their consoles were delayed for reasons not concerning Nvidia (i.e bluray), Sony and M$ tried to "bully" Nvidia into a new agreement over the price of those GPUs Nvidia had been stockpiling, because by that time, those chips had been made obsolete by other GPUs in the PC market.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 24, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> Yeah but there was a reason for that and had nothing to do with Nvidia. Sony wanted Cell to do the graphics. When they realized that was stupid and Cell had nothing to do against a true GPU, they asked Nvidia to make them one ASAP and with such a short time they agreed to RSX.
> 
> Sony learned from its mistake, but it has nothing to do AMD or Nvidia's competence, they learned and went to a GPU directly.
> 
> And they go AMD in part because they can "bully" them, just as M$ did. Both Sony (PS3) and M$ (Xbox) reached agreement with Nvidia for a certain GPU at a certain price at a certain date. Nvidia delivered, but when their consoles were delayed for reasons not concerning Nvidia (i.e bluray), Sony and M$ tried to "bully" Nvidia into a new agreement over the price of those GPUs Nvidia had been stockpiling, because by that time, those chips had been made obsolete by other GPUs in the PC market.



Yes bully them into making bucket loads of money in the console market. Poor, poor AMD.


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## insane 360 (Feb 24, 2012)

i'm happy for amd, i forsee some use of trinity in the new consoles, at least the xbox and ps...the wii u is probably too close for production, maybe it will be some form of fusion now, llano

anyways, i'm glad amd is getting some good news


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## cadaveca (Feb 24, 2012)

I really hope that AMD GPUs are in all consoles...not because I don't like nVidia, but because the industry itself needs to get nV's fingers out of game development processes, and consolidating everything to a single unified rendering design is jsut gonna make things easier, so there will be less time spent optimizing for different GPUs/CPUs in each console.


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## neko77025 (Feb 24, 2012)

Good Old Fanboy-ism at its best at work in these replys.   PPL will defend their GPU team no matter what the truth is.  

Since the ATI 9800pro/Xt .. ATI has only had A few bad GPUs (38XX).  I have probably owned more GPUs then most.  I was 18 when I frist had the need for A GPU. It was the Monster VooDoo2 12MB... took me like 4 pay checks from the comic book store to pay for it.  I am now 32, I have owned well over 25gpu (some were dupes SLI/Crossfire).

When I was younger and did not have bills (or women/sex) I would buy the best GPU no matter what the cost. .. As I got older, have too many bills (sex w/ women) Value took over.  for me AMD is A better Value & I never have these driver issues ppl always talk about. (well I do have crossfire driver issues on new games) 

Point is, their is Never A total better brand .. .. they each have their highs & lows... all that being said ATI(now amd) dont make bad gpus and are not far behind nvida on sales... in fact if you look at real data... ATI / AMD is gaining  % and nvida is losing.

Also, the new xbox gpu is in fact AMD/ATI.  So they now have all 3x of the consoles


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## baggpipes (Feb 24, 2012)

Out of all the consoles we can without a doubt know who should be more powerful now...


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## dj-electric (Feb 24, 2012)

*Complete Console Domination 150G*

Achievement Unlocked


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## Nihilus (Feb 24, 2012)

Wow, great deal for AMD.  Maybe I should have held my AMD stock a little longer.  Bought at $4.30 sold at about $7.20  Still the easiest $1500 I ever made so no complains here! 

The advantage to this is it should make cross-platform programming much easier to optimize, saving the consumers money (doubt it but whatever).

The above poster said the HD 38xx was one of the only bad GPUs.  Had one myself and it was very efficient.  I think he means the HD29xxs which were hot power-hungry dogs.


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## _JP_ (Feb 24, 2012)

*cough*
RUMOR!
*cough*

*ahem*
I'm sorry, but that article has no facts nor confirmations from both factions.



> AMD declined to comment on the project. Sony Chief Transformation Officer George Bailey also declined to discuss Sony’s new console, or even acknowledge its existence.


A) Because probably there is no project (They have piledriver, trinity, the rest of the HD7x00 to worry about)
B) Because Sony still hasn't milked the PS3 yet, or whatever...



> However, at AMD’s analyst day last month, AMD Chief Financial Officer Thomas Seifert *identified gaming as one of several trends that will drive revenue growth at AMD* in 2012.


Gee, I don't know...Radeon? APUs? :\


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## cadaveca (Feb 24, 2012)

Nihilus said:


> I think he means the HD29xxs which were hot power-hungry dogs.



me too:


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## HTC (Feb 24, 2012)

Wouldn't it make more sense to put a 7750 in these instead of a 6670? The price is similar but the performance is way better:


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 24, 2012)

after the way sony has treated ps3 owners why would anyone want a ps4??? certainly not me.


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## Benetanegia (Feb 24, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Yes bully them into making bucket loads of money in the console market. Poor, poor AMD.



That's not what I said. Money they will make, but they will not fight as much as Nvidia would. AMD does not fight over prices as much as Intel, Nvidia, etc. It's a fact and it's the same for servers, etc. Maybe bully was not the best word, but that's why I used "".

Most probably in the same situation I described AMD would have conceeded to a new agreement. Nvidia didn't and is not likely to do now either, hence, aside from the better perf/watt of AMD's VLIW design, in part they are moving to AMD because it's easier for them to work with the small company that will give no trouble. Denying that this is a factor is naive and stupid.

EDIT: And in general, before you talk about "making bucket loads of money" maybe you should take a look at AMD's financials for the last half a decade. They already had 2/3 of consoles and that didn't help much, one more won't make them "make bucket loads of money", especially when all 3 consoles are rumored to use mid-range level cards as oposed to high-end chips at the time of release. How much do you think AMD will be making selling HD6600s in 2017?


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## cadaveca (Feb 24, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> Most probably in the same situation I described AMD would have conceeded to a new agreement. Nvidia didn't and is not likely to do now either, hence, aside from the better perf/watt of AMD's VLIW design, in part they are moving to AMD because it's easier for them to work with the small company that will give no trouble. Denying that this is a factor is naive and stupid.



Speculation is useless. THAT, i think, was Mailman's point. You are suggesting things that cannot be verified, and as such, are totally questionable. I mean, don't get me wrong, if that's your opinion, that's perfectly fine, but to construe it as fact is another thing entirely.

AMD, and whoever else, are just gonna do what brings in the best profits. Except nVidia...Jen Hsun's ego is far too large for him to concede control for profit. You cannot compare the two. they aren't even in the same business, for christ's sake.


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 24, 2012)

uh oh, looks like this article is pulling the trolls out of their mom's basement! run for the hills!


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## Benetanegia (Feb 24, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> AMD, and whoever else, are just gonna do what brings in the best profits. Except nVidia...Jen Hsun's ego is far too large for him to concede control for profit. You cannot compare the two. they aren't even in the same business, for christ's sake.



Read the edit. And no Jen Hsun's ego does not prevent Nvidia from getting much much higher profits than AMD. And this is fact.


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## cadaveca (Feb 24, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> And no Jen Hsun's ego does not prevent Nvidia from getting much much higher profits than AMD. And this is fact.



Again, opinion, as my own post was.  

Also, we can say that NV's lack of merging with AMD says you are very wrong in that opinion.

ALso I read your edit..i tihnk you are missing the point that sales in connsole might reap benefits in other markets as well. It's not liek they jsut do VGA cards, ot jsut CPUs for servers, or jsut APUs..they have a very board range marketable products that are customized to it's respective market.

A win in the console space shows how adaptable they are to meeting customer needs...mainly the customers who sell consoles...



Easy Rhino said:


> uh oh, looks like this article is pulling the trolls out of their mom's basement! run for the hills!



Must be....you're here...


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 24, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Again, opinion, as my own post was.
> 
> Also, we can say that NV's lack of merging with AMD says you are very wrong in that opinion.
> 
> ...



yes but i came out of your mom's basement


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## Benetanegia (Feb 24, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Again, opinion, as my own post was.



I'ts not opinion, take a look at the financials of both companies.



> Also, we can say that NV's lack of merging with AMD says you are very wrong in that opinion.[/B]



lol, who's speculating now? Again facts. Ati got much worse after the adquisition, and lost the mobile division, Nvidia has grown and extended to other markets. Who won and who lost with the adquisition.



> A win in the console space shows how adaptable they are to meeting customer needs...mainly the customers who sell consoles...



Again speculating. Yeah and their needs are something that works and that is cheap. They do meet those requirements, but looking at the past 5 years, they meet them by exchanging market share for profits, contracts in servers for profits, presence in consoles for profits. And this is fact, look at the financials. Is it better for AMD to have those contracts than not having them? Sure. Would it be better for Nvidia or Intel to get them? Not at the reduced profits AMD is willing to accept. This in servers, it is an undeniable fact, or you are going to pretend that so many server creators prefer AMD over Intel, or owrse yet that Intel cannot win those designs because it cannot compete at AMD's prices? They are not willing to do it, which is a very different thing.


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## cadaveca (Feb 24, 2012)

Um, most of what you say can be construed as fact, however, it was only fact before Rory Read took over. As of that point, AMD became a different company(or did you not read the article?). In AMD's own "official" words, what you call as my speculation, they say is fact. I mean, sure, things were different in the past...but I have no need, or want, to dwell on mistakes...you learn from mistakes, not obsess over them. It's called "growth".

Financials do not tell the story of what a company is doing. Fact is, nvidia, by Jen Hsun's own speech, is NOT a hardware company..they are a software comapny, that also sells hardware.

That mindset has nVidia market it's software, and then leverages that software to make extra sales via hardware that works best with the software they sell. Jen Hsun wanted to do the same with AMD, and make them something they are not today, but what nVidia is today. That's his ego...playing a role. Just becuase I used the word ego, doesn't make it a bad thing. Everyone has one. That ego is what makes nVidia the success they are.

AMD, in the reverse, is a hardware company, that relies on otherd to make software that uses the solutions AMD privdes to the best it can. Very different companies, very different goals and ideals, and very different approaches to success. Thus, they are not truly comparable, except that they both operate within the same confines of the tech market.


And because they are not comparable, they were chosen to provide the desgins, based on the difference in the package they offered. You construe this as a bad thing, however, it's exactly what their customers asked for, clearly by them winning these contracts. it's not them being pushed around, or bullied..it's them conforming to the needs of their customers, and ultimately, that is the path to success. You see this as a weakness...when clearly, I, and their customers, see it as a strength.


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## Benetanegia (Feb 24, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Um, most of what you say can be construed as fact, however, it ws only fact before Rory Read took over. as of that point, AMD became a different company. In AMD's own "official" words, what you call as my speculation, they say is fact. I mean, sure, things were differnt in the past...but I have no need, or want, to dwell on mistakes...you learn from mistakes, not obsess over them.
> 
> 
> Financials do not tell the story of what a company is doing. Fact is, nvidia, by Jen Hsun's own speech, is NOT a hardware company..they are a software comapny, that also sells hardware.
> ...



Wow. Speaking of speculation. Jen Hsun wanted to do what?? 

The comment about them being a software company has nothing to do with what you pretend. Nvidia does not sell any software that I'm aware of (maybe Mental Ray). He was most definitely refering to the fact that what sells GPUs are games or other apps that need GPUs and that they are focused on improving those. Nothing wrong with that.



> And because they are not comparable, they were chosen to provide the desgins, based on the difference in the package they offered. You construe this as a bad thing, however,* it's exactly what their customers asked for, clearly by them winning these contracts*. it's not them being pushed around, or bullied..it's them conforming to the needs of their customers, and ultimately, that is the path to success. You see this as a weakness...when clearly, I, and their customers, see it as a strength.



Speculating again. They won the contracts because they offered what customers wanted for a lower price. Come on, how does AMD and Nvidia get Apple contracts too? You can pretend that there's something other than pure bussiness behind the decisions, but there is not. They met both brands and the one who was willing to give more for less won. That has nothing to do with how the companies work and certainly nothing to do with egos. Nvidia will be fine. Look the same was said when M$ used AMD cards for the Xbox360, but luckily we have history to teach us the reality.

And pretending that with Road AMD is completely different is absurd. AMD has been changing CEO more than slips and that didn't make it very different and certainly not better, which is what we are talking about.

In any case I never said this was something bad for AMD, that's an invention of yours. I admit "bully" was not the best owrd, but I don't know how to express it better.


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## cadaveca (Feb 24, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> That has nothing to do with how the companies work and certainly nothing to do with egos. Nvidia will be fine. Look the same was said when M$ used AMD cards for the Xbox360, but luckily we have history to teach us the reality.



The differences of ego between those in control of each company is what makes them differnt....i dunno wtf you are going on about.  Perhaps watching Jen Hsun's speech (GTX480 launch with woodscrews) might show you why I feel the way I do.



Benetanegia said:


> And pretending that with Road AMD is completely different is absurd. AMD has been changing CEO more than slips and that didn't make it very different and certainly not better, which is what we are talking about.



You didn't read the article. The change Rory brought was getting the AMD staff hyped and excited...as said in the article. to say he's had no impact is asinine in light of the info the article presents. It's entriely about Rory, and the changes he's brought to AMD...I know the OP doesn't exactly convey this, but like I said, you clearly didn't read the Forbes article.

Here's the tagline from the article:



> Clown, copycat, casualty. AMD has been many things. Rory Read wants to learn to turn the processor designer into the one thing it’s never been: a killer.




and a line:



> “You guys are working way too hard to be where you are today,” Read told the crowd, according to a former AMD employee who attended the meeting. “AMDers are pirates. We need to get back to that pirate mentality.”
> 
> The AMDers, desperate for inspirational leadership, ate it up. Later that day someone bought Read a pirate hat. Says one former AMD employee: “People were psyched.”



And the actual article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/briancaulfield/2012/02/22/the-predator/


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## JMccovery (Feb 24, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> Yeah but there was a reason for that and had nothing to do with Nvidia. Sony wanted Cell to do the graphics. When they realized that was stupid and Cell had nothing to do against a true GPU, they asked Nvidia to make them one ASAP and with such a short time they agreed to RSX.
> 
> Sony learned from its mistake, but it has nothing to do AMD or Nvidia's competence, they learned and went to a GPU directly.
> 
> And they go AMD in part because they can "bully" them, just as M$ did. Both Sony (PS3) and M$ (Xbox) reached agreement with Nvidia for a certain GPU at a certain price at a certain date. Nvidia delivered, but when their consoles were delayed for reasons not concerning Nvidia (i.e bluray), Sony and M$ tried to "bully" Nvidia into a new agreement over the price of those GPUs Nvidia had been stockpiling, because by that time, those chips had been made obsolete by other GPUs in the PC market.



The problem with this train of thought is that ATi did not 'make' the GPUs in the 360 or the Gamecube/Wii, both Nintendo and Microsoft licensed the GPU tech from ATi and manufactured the chips themselves. Now, Nvidia did manufacture the XGPU (NV1A) in the original Xbox, but they did not manufacture the RSX, Sony made the RSX. It was based on G71 because that was the most powerful architecture that Nvidia was willing to license at the time.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 24, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> AMD does not fight over prices as much as Intel, Nvidia, etc. It's a fact and it's the same for servers, etc. Maybe bully was not the best word, but that's why I used "".



so the fact they parted from their own manufacturing arm then held said arm over a barrel to get lower per chip(not per wafer) prices dosnt count as aggressive to you then, Amd are still around Despite intels cpu making greatnessm, not because of being weak m8.

and cadveca is bang on when he says AMD have their hands in many baskets, with their advanced Soc capabillities they are all set to rival arm in oem sales, and in just for purpose chip design 

all 3 in the pocket is going to happen ,why do you think nvidia are pushing their tech into GPGPU so hard and focusing on tegra so much, they know where their breads going to be buttered

55.5 million playstations to make gpus for,65.8 million new xbox,s to provide GPU's for

95 million wiiu's to also possibly supply with gpus all over the next 5-10 years,  wow they are going to be busy(wikki'd) if they only got a pound in proffit per chip, that their is still BEEEads



Benetanegia said:


> Good for you and AMD fans. The rest of us have our feet in the ground


 and your head up nvidias ass given your average post


 i do hope they dont forget PD as im waiting


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## Benetanegia (Feb 24, 2012)

> The change Rory brought was getting the *AMD staff hyped and excited*.



Yeah and you drink the same koolaid. Good for you and AMD fans. The rest of us have our feet in the ground and are realistic and skeptical about that "change".

The line of "old was bad, new is good" is as old as our history, and in case you don't follow history, it's never true.


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## cadaveca (Feb 24, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> Good for you and AMD fans.



You miss the point that I am not an AMD fan. If anything, I might be their toughest critic. While you feel I may be an AMD fan, I'm here posting and telling people to buy Intel, because it's faster, and cheaper. No fan is going to tell peopel to go somewhere else.


I just chose to ignore marketing hype, and look at the big picture. That included me saying that AMD and Intel were not in direct competition, to only have that same thing repeated by AMD themselves several weeks later. The only reason I knew that this was going to be the direction they took...was because it's common sense. Unless of course, you think that AMD is listening to me...because that's really stupid.

AMD roadmap has changed, staff has changed, and company focus has changed as well. You are right that those changes may not lead to the success they are raching for, but I'm not going to call it a failure before they have a chance to step into action.


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## Benetanegia (Feb 24, 2012)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> so the fact they parted from their own manufacturing arm then held said arm over a barrel to get lower per chip(not per wafer) prices dosnt count as aggressive to you then, Amd are still around Despite intels cpu making greatnessm, not because of being weak m8.
> 
> and cadveca is bang on when he says AMD have their hands in many baskets, with their advanced Soc capabillities they are all set to rival arm in oem sales, and in just for purpose chip design
> 
> ...



They already made the GPUs for those 95 million Wii's and 65 million XBoxes, and that didn't make their financials any better than they have been. A few more PS's won't change the picture much. That is my point.

To extend the point, if console contracts were the money makers that some people are pretending it to be. AMD would have been making shedloads of profits already. And they don't.



cadaveca said:


> You miss the point that I am not an AMD fan. If anything, I might be their toughest critic. Whiel you feel I may be an AMD fan, I'm here posting and telling people to buy Intel, because it's faster, and cheaper.



I didn't say you are an AMD fanboy. I said you and (also) AMD fans are probably happy with that koolaid.


----------



## Crap Daddy (Feb 24, 2012)

90% of console users have no idea what's in the box and they don't care and shouldn't care.
It's only us here who spend pretty often hundreds of whatever currency to update our monstrous GPUs to play games that are designed to run on small boxes equipped with cheap hardware.
It's very good that AMD will provide parts for consoles, they need every bit of success they can to    make some profit and keep afloat. On the other hand we shouldn't be worried about NV, they are doing fine even if it's not so evident in the GPU sector, the one we all love so much. Let's not forget that the market cap of NV is almost double than that of AMD.


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## faramir (Feb 24, 2012)

TC-man said:


> Well, it's not only that AMD is cheaper, it's also that Sony learns from its mistake, since the Nvidia's RSX gpu for the PS3 is just a modified Geforce 7800gt with reduced ROPs, I believe. AMD (ATI) designed a totally new and more advanced gpu (Xenos) for the Xbox 360 with embedded memory and unified shader architecture and all, and the result was evident, even now when compared to PS3 graphics in games, especially in most cross-platform games that are available for both console.



Indeed it was, Xbox 360 has much crappier graphics than PS3. The most evident case of that I can think of is GTA4 where buildings and other objects just pop out of nowhere (result of low rendering distance to keep the framerate manageable). I played this game on friend's PS3 first so the difference was stunning, I couldn't get used to tis annoyance, it made quick action scenes (when you're chasing someone etc.) much more frustrating as objects appeared where it used to look like free passable space.

That GPU in Xbox 360 is a piece of poop so no wonder results are so underwhelming. I'm a long time ATI user, currently running HD5770 but the Xbox GPU downright sucks.


----------



## m1dg3t (Feb 24, 2012)

Didn't ATi do the last GPU for xBox? 

@ Benetanagia: I find your post's amusing, please continue


----------



## badtaylorx (Feb 24, 2012)

as long as its dx11.1 i dont care WHO makes it


----------



## Zakin (Feb 24, 2012)

faramir said:


> Indeed it was, Xbox 360 has much crappier graphics than PS3. The most evident case of that I can think of is GTA4 where buildings and other objects just pop out of nowhere (result of low rendering distance to keep the framerate manageable). I played this game on friend's PS3 first so the difference was stunning, I couldn't get used to tis annoyance, it made quick action scenes (when you're chasing someone etc.) much more frustrating as objects appeared where it used to look like free passable space.
> 
> That GPU in Xbox 360 is a piece of poop so no wonder results are so underwhelming. I'm a long time ATI user, currently running HD5770 but the Xbox GPU downright sucks.



Ironically that must have been Rockstar's fault, the 360 is only stronger than the PS3 in the GPU department. Only reason the PS3 does such things as Uncharted 3 is the developers are being very crafty with the fairly powerful cell processor.


----------



## Dent1 (Feb 24, 2012)

faramir said:


> That GPU in Xbox 360 is a piece of poop so no wonder results are so underwhelming. I'm a long time ATI user, currently running HD5770 but the Xbox GPU downright sucks.



Actually, the Xbox 360s GPU is a fair bit more powerful than the PS3s. It just shows that you have no clue what you're talking about.


Quote



> There are three critical performance aspects of a console:
> 
> •The Xbox 360 CPU architecture has three times the general purpose processing power of the Cell.
> •The Xbox 360 GPU design is more flexible and it has more processing power than the PS3 GPU.
> •The memory system bandwidth in Xbox 360 exceeds the PS3's by five times.





> The Xbox 360 GPU has more processing power than the PS3's. In addition, its innovated features contribute to overall rendering performance.





> CONCLUSION
> When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3.




IGN: http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html


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## Nihilus (Feb 24, 2012)

Farimer, considering that game is at least 4 years old it is more likely that the lack of graphics were from difficulty in porting it over.  Each has their own strengths and weakness.

In most cases cross platform game have looked better in Xbox 360.   GTA may be better, but skim through this:  http://hlime.wordpress.com/2007/06/27/june-07-comparison-xbox-360-graphics-vs-ps3-graphics/

There are many other articles like this from different sources.  Please feel free continuing to share your opinions though. 

Bottom line, a unified console GPU producer is good for developers, weather you prefer Nvidia or AMD.  For those like Farimer, this is terrible!


----------



## Nihilus (Feb 24, 2012)

(faramir quietly walks to the kiddy table)


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## Nyte (Feb 24, 2012)

As an employee of AMD's GPU division, I can gladly (and safely) say that you are all wrong.

But because I'm an employee, I can't say much else.


----------



## Fluffmeister (Feb 24, 2012)

Hmm when people continue to blame consoles for holding back PC gaming graphics, at least we know where to point the finger of blame!


----------



## NdMk2o1o (Feb 24, 2012)

Dictionary.com: Fanboys defintion... 

PR: Fa.n.bo.ys  [ fan-buoys] 

Examples in real world usage: 



Benetanegia said:


> And yet they will make 2x as much money as the entire AMD, as usual.





LDNL said:


> You know what, im glad that consoles choose AMD over Nvidia. Lets see how many controllers get thrown to the wall when each game requires 2-3 driver updates





AthlonX2 said:


> or every game will just look muddy and washed out.


----------



## Katanai (Feb 24, 2012)

Noooooooooooooooooo! :shadedshu That crappy AMD chip in the 360 console is the main thing that holds back graphical advances in games. This is bad news my friends, no matter how you look at it. I was hoping that things will get better somehow but now I'm thinking they will get even worse...


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 24, 2012)

Crap Daddy said:


> Let's not forget that the market cap of NV is almost double than that of AMD.



a companys worth is more a percieved value then an actual value and their share price like any companies can go down


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## Inceptor (Feb 24, 2012)

Setting all the AMD vs NVidia mumbo jumbo aside for a moment, let's talk about the stock market.
Yes, 90% of console users have no idea what's in the box, but that isn't AMD's concern; they only need the analysts from the world's investment firms to know it, and they will.
*PRESTO!*
It generates some investor confidence in AMD stock.  And the major investors in big name stocks are not individuals, but multi-million and multi-billion dollar investment funds managed by investment banks.
The stock is bought, the share price increases, AMD's market capitalization increases, the psychological effect is huge.  And that psychological effect carries forward and creates momentum.
That's all AMD needs to do with their GPUs for consoles, their APUs, etc, they don't need to make large profits directly from console gpu sales.  That is their goal.
The worst case scenario, it still looks good, that they got the supply contracts.
Absolute worst case scenario, graphics division looks good.
Best case, see above.


----------



## Completely Bonkers (Feb 24, 2012)

My perspective is this: console brings dollars, but it isnt leading edge. The companies that jump on the console bandwagon make money in the short term, but it isnt where the enthusiasts are.

So good for AMD and will help them though their CPU disasters. But on the other hand, will it lead to complacency? Let's see.


----------



## NC37 (Feb 24, 2012)

AthlonX2 said:


> They havent lost the entire console market,it was rumored the new xbox will have an nvidia gpu. most likely something comparable to a 4 series but none the less nvidia



So you missed the talk weeks ago where they said M$ is going to use AMD also? GPU listed in that was the 6670. Yeah, midrange stuff. Next console gen is looking to be crap. Originally there was also talk Sony would use Intel for PS4 graphics, then larrabee was canned and that was history.

NV lost these contracts because of their bonehead moves. They did this during the first Xbox. M$ wanted to lower to cost to help sell units, the GeForce 3 in it was a big expense. NV wouldn't budge on price. They wanted a premium for it despite it being old chips by that time.

I heard a similar thing happened with Sony and PS3. NV is not the best partner when it comes to consoles. The plus side of all consoles having AMD now is that they will be similar in hardware which may help cross platform titles.


----------



## Dent1 (Feb 24, 2012)

Completely Bonkers said:


> My perspective is this: console brings dollars, but it isnt leading edge. The companies that jump on the console bandwagon make money in the short term, but it isnt where the enthusiasts are.
> 
> So good for AMD and will help them though their CPU disasters. But on the other hand, will it lead to complacency? Let's see.



Not sure how this will help their CPU disasters??

But I think this move to produce GPUs for Sony is good. It means consistant orders for the next few years. Its always good to know where your next pay cheque is coming from.


----------



## cadaveca (Feb 24, 2012)

Nyte said:


> As an employee of AMD's GPU division, I can gladly (and safely) say that you are all wrong.
> 
> But because I'm an employee, I can't say much else.



PSH! As if. You should be working then, not posting. 

Who said we gotta be right? Opinions seldom are.

Silly cubicle workers.:shadedshu


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 24, 2012)

Completely Bonkers said:


> My perspective is this: console brings dollars, but it isnt leading edge. The companies that jump on the console bandwagon make money in the short term, but it isnt where the enthusiasts are.



enthusiasts though big spending dont account for very much of the bottom line  so.....
and they earn and earn ,i know many people that have bought more then 1 of a console over its life cycle, im one of them (i begrudgingly did)

and thats not in any way, what any company would call short term gain=, regular monthly output for 5-10 years



cadaveca said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Nyte
> As an employee of AMD's GPU division, I can gladly (and safely) say that you are all wrong.
> 
> ...



yeh get piledriver sorted lazy ass  asap

i do hate that kinda ,i KNOW, but cant whisper a word comment


----------



## Crap Daddy (Feb 24, 2012)

Nyte said:


> As an employee of AMD's GPU division, I can gladly (and safely) say that you are all wrong.
> 
> But because I'm an employee, I can't say much else.



All of us? So that means Nvidia will provide the part for the next PlayStation? Or maybe Intel?


----------



## nerdydesi (Feb 24, 2012)

faramir said:


> Indeed it was, Xbox 360 has much crappier graphics than PS3. The most evident case of that I can think of is GTA4 where buildings and other objects just pop out of nowhere (result of low rendering distance to keep the framerate manageable). I played this game on friend's PS3 first so the difference was stunning, I couldn't get used to tis annoyance, it made quick action scenes (when you're chasing someone etc.) much more frustrating as objects appeared where it used to look like free passable space.



No, actually that was the fault of the 360 version running entirely off the disc whereas the PS3 version has a mandatory installation onto the HDD, like the PC version. I also had that pop-in on the 360 and it was quite frustrating and have played it on all three platforms, PC, PS3 and 360. Several times, I would be driving and have my car slam into an invisible object which popped up after I hit it. 

If you installed the game onto the HDD on the 360 version, that pop-in problem would likely go away.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 24, 2012)

Nyte said:


> As an employee of AMD's GPU division, I can gladly (and safely) say that you are all wrong.
> 
> But because I'm an employee, I can't say much else.



BS anyway why the hell would you be glad(and safely),that were all wrong about AMD winning 3 contracts(big)

and thats the main topic and point being discussed


----------



## Frizz (Feb 24, 2012)

Thank god for this, as a PS3 owner and XBOX 360 user I found the 360 to be much better designed in terms of performance, there could be a very different reason for this but the frames are just horrible on the PS3 and as everyone should know alot of games have stuttering issues as well. I hope this move to design their next GPU based on an AMD card will give their next gen console more resilience. So far the 360 games with an AMD gpu has looked alot better and performed alot better than their PS3 variants. AKA Red Dead Redemption, Bayonetta etc. (Can google more PS3 practically has less detailed textures and more.)


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## Rowsol (Feb 24, 2012)

Delta6326 said:


> I just hope they don't chose some old crappy gpu.



They will.


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## Benetanegia (Feb 24, 2012)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> 95 million wiiu's to also possibly supply with gpus all over the next 5-10 years,  wow they are going to be busy(wikki'd) *if they only got a pound in proffit per chip*, that their is still BEEEads



The bold part, I didn't pay attention before, but it's an interesting one, because it made me realize that maybe my point is not understood because you are not really paying attention to what console sales really mean. Soo...

If they got 1 dollar of profit per chip...

...they would make 55 + 65 + 95 = 215

$215 millions in 10 years

or $21 million every year

or $5 million per quarter

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1652123&highlight=

That's pretty much nothing considering their annual earnings. And the reality is that they don't make 20x more profits than that, probably not even 10x that, per Xbox360 sold.

By contrast they make several dozens, sometimes hundreds of $ in profits per GPU or CPU sold and any shift in those markets will have a much much greater impact than console sales.

Console sales are a nice little addition considering that R&D overlaps with their GPU bussiness. A good way to get $20-50 million extra revenue at the end of the quarter, but it is in no way a life changing scenario as so many people pretend in this thread. If AMD had to be saved by this, it wouldn't, and it will certainly not make a scratch in Nvidia's financials which is what my original point was about.

EDIT: Sme more background: http://www.techspot.com/news/47544-jpr-q4-2011-gpu-shipments-were-up-9-intel-still-leading.html



> Slightly more than 124 million graphics chips shipped during Q4 2011.





> AMD came in second with 24.8 percent



So this last quarter AMD shipped 30 million, extrapolating for 10 years 30x4x10== 1200 million GPUs shipped. At a much higher average profit per unit sold.


----------



## NinkobEi (Feb 24, 2012)

AMD the superior GPU manufacturer, no surprise they get all the luxurious contracts.


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## Frizz (Feb 24, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> The bold part, I didn't pay attention before, but it's an interesting one, because it made me realize that maybe my point is not understood because you are not really paying attention to what console sales really mean. Soo...
> 
> If they got 1 dollar of profit per chip...
> 
> ...



The fact that you are not the CEO of AMD nor NVIDIA or even an employee that works in their financial sector means all you're doing is speculating AND providing your own opinion based on their article. We understand your point.

I think AMD will get something outta this one way or another and I think the next gen PS4 will benefit from it as well as it was plagued with performance issues and had lower quality graphics for alot of games compared to their 360 variants with their PS3.


----------



## Casecutter (Feb 24, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> * Nvidia's going to (try to) release the entire lineup in 2-3 months (AMD in ~5-6 depending on when you start counting), that's a lot of chips in a short period and ANY yield problem... They always release with a higher number of cards than AMD.


Ah, AMD doesn't need to "rush" they got a 4 month head start with their Top Shelf part (and took the risk) by being the first 28Nm part.   Nvidia better not have production yield issues, AMD already assisted TSMC through all that.  Nvidia road the coat-tails all the way, while I ask why aren't Nvidia releasing there Top Shelf offering until very last? Seems odd can't remember the last time they pulled a... best for last?  It doesn't instill confidence, if their architecture is/was so easily moved into volume production? 



Benetanegia said:


> And they go AMD in part because they can "bully" them, just as M$ did, because by that time, those chips (Nvidia) had been made obsolete by other GPUs in the PC market.


 Ah, there’s the difference AMD graphics especially in the 6670-6770 range are still plenty current to modern performance measures, cost effective, and efficient. *cough440GT-cough*  



HTC said:


> Wouldn't it make more sense to put a 7750 in these instead of a 6670? The price is similar but the performance is way better.


The problem is 28Nm cost increase levied by TSCM, it not near as cost effective due to that. I'd see AMD spinning a slightly enhanced 6670-6770 40Nm (matured process). Plenty of oomph for a console... economical and efficient. Or is there time to have Global Foundries run a 28Nm?



Benetanegia said:


> AMD does not fight over prices as much as Intel, Nvidia, etc.
> ... aside from the better perf/watt of AMD's VLIW design, in part they are moving to AMD because it's easier for them to work with...


I always enjoy working with folk's like that, we both understand they offer a good product and fair price and can deliver on time as ordered. Nothing worse than a vendor who you give a blanket order with releases (that how that's done in the real world), but then stock piles the parts because they/vendor see's it better for their process and delivery.  If we say, need a running change (as would be agreed by any contact) and they say, but we built up all this stock for you... Not my problem!  



Benetanegia said:


> when all 3 consoles are rumored to use mid-range level cards as oposed to high-end chips at the time of release. How much do you think AMD will be making selling HD6600s in 2017?


It's called free flowing Gravy, especially if done at G-F manufacturing in say 2013, the foundry would enjoy the steady work flow. This might have more to do with helping to load G-F than just the steady 5-8 million of free cash infusion a quarter for the next few years. It might be the start to giving TSMC the boot.

I think this speak volumes.


----------



## Frizz (Feb 24, 2012)

To speculate NVIDIA might have cheapened out on the design they gave the PS3 as their profit margin for a better card could have been close to non-existent. I also believe NVIDIA didn't fight for a design for the next gen consoles because of this as I'd imagine they are currently a lot more focused on making their profits with Tegra.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 24, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> and it will certainly not make a scratch in Nvidia's financials which is what my original point was about.



one big news hit that goes wrong , like 680's going up in smoke or a nvidia cray system needing a refit due to dodgy gpus and nvidias lofty(in your eyes)  capital could vanish,

companys are fickle, not that long ago 3dFX were the daddies or Matrox were also up there and where are they now:shadedshu

you know what i too know before ya say it that this isnt going to happen and im glad nvidia will do their thing too, im expecting an APU for desktops at some point and they will still earn i know just ya so damn anti amd soundin



random said:


> To speculate NVIDIA might have cheapened out on the design they gave the PS3 as their profit margin for a better card could have been close to non-existent. I also believe NVIDIA didn't fight for a design for the next gen consoles because of this as I'd imagine they are currently a lot more focused on making their profits with Tegra.



they can cheapen only in process, the end customer sony M$ etc set the spec in consultation ,but they arent the same as you or i can buy, they have differences and extra features to an off the shelf gpu their hybrids based on pc gpu's


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## Casecutter (Feb 24, 2012)

random said:


> The fact that you are not the CEO of AMD nor NVIDIA


But writes with the arrogance of Jen-Hsun Huang


----------



## Benetanegia (Feb 24, 2012)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> one big news hit that goes wrong , like 680's going up in smoke or a nvidia cray system needing a refit due to dodgy gpus and nvidias lofty(in your eyes)  capital could vanish,



Oh, of course it could, and that would mean a failure in their core bussiness, but it would have nothing to do with console contracts. Console sales are pretty much irrelevant to AMD and Nvidia, specially Nvidia who makes much more on Tesla, Quadro and Tegra than AMD will ever do on consoles and that's the point I've been making.

You all can label me fanboy all you want, because I know how the internet works, it only means I said something AMD fanboys don't like to hear (and TPU is full of them), but what I'm saying is the simple truth so I'm really sorry if it hurts your feelings to hear the truth. Gosh, I've even been called fanboy for pointing out that Nvidia has been making 2x as many profits as AMD in the past years, now that's supreme fanboism in denial mode.

EDIT: And BTW not anywhere did I say that Nvidia's financials are lofty or good in any metric other than saying that they have been much better than AMD's. And that's simply a fact.


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## Jermelescu (Feb 24, 2012)

Some of you talk before they think. AMD isn't that easy-to-bully company from a couple of years back. Just look at what Rory did with the company [results are yet to be seen in 2013/2014]. He makes sure that AMD becomes competitive regarding market share and profitability.
Regarding the consoles, I'm glad that they're all AMD, they deserve it.
And stop talkin' trash about drivers since at least 60% of you don't know how to properly configure one.
edit: 1$ profit per GPU? Weed much?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 24, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> Oh, of course it could, and that would mean a failure in their core bussiness, but it would have nothing to do with console contracts. Console sales are pretty much irrelevant to AMD and Nvidia, specially Nvidia who makes much more on Tesla, Quadro and Tegra than AMD will ever do on consoles and that's the point I've been making.
> 
> You all can label me fanboy all you want, because I know how the internet works, it only means I said something AMD fanboys don't like to hear (and TPU is full of them), but what I'm saying is the simple truth so I'm really sorry if it hurts your feelings to hear the truth. Gosh, I've even been called fanboy for pointing out that Nvidia has been making 2x as many profits as AMD in the past years, now that's supreme fanboism in denial mode.
> 
> EDIT: And BTW not anywhere did I say that Nvidia's financials are lofty or good in any metric other than saying that they have been much better than AMD's. And that's simply a fact.




your the guy in an amd themed news thread shouting nvidia are bigger then AMD so....(with little actual point thereafter ) 

and im eager to see nvidias business retort to this as much as i am eager to see kepler etc i am all amd at the min due to performance features and price convergeing in the right place not because i luv them, im fully aware they are all out for max dollar i go with my nose not any particular name, i soley had nvidia cards for years prior to 3870 xfired


and i Buy new from both at least every other year, how can ya not


----------



## Benetanegia (Feb 24, 2012)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> your the guy in an amd themed news thread shouting nvidia are bigger then AMD so....(with little actual point thereafter )



So? Read again it was not me saying this was doom and gloom for Nvidia. I only made a statement of reality (that this won't affect Nvidia, nor will make AMD loads of money) and I was told I was wrong and everythng scalated since there. If I'm saying that Nvidia are bigger than AMd is because that's a fact that is being constantly argumented (because it hurts, not because it's false). Period. I don'0t say it because of any other interest but accuracy.



> and im eager to see nvidias business retort to this as much as i am eager to see kepler etc i am all amd at the min due to performance features and price convergeing in the right place not because i luv them, im fully aware they are all out for max dollar i go with my nose not any particular name, i soley had nvidia cards for years prior to 3870 xfired



Same here I had many Ati cards and in recent years I only bought 8800GT and GTX460, because I decided to buy every 3 years now (unless more than 2 games really need more which is not the case) and those were by far the best choices at the time I bought them. i.e Gigabyte GTX460 SOC for 160 euros, when HD6850 reference costed 190. Easy choice.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 25, 2012)

Benetanegia said:


> Gigabyte GTX460 SOC for 160 euros, when HD6850 reference costed 190. Easy choice.



 that again is an opinion fella, id in that instance have gone for a 6950 but thats me

i may have missread some of what we have debated but debated it none the less  ( i do like to talk) i ment no offence i dont like the overly negative stance some take either and my main point initially was that AMD doing all 3 would be good for us pc gamers and it might lead to a harmonious gameing world in which nvidia have to tow the standards line, cuda is a hinderance to a more compatible future imho, id rather both companys purely battled on a performance front with standards dashed about like confetti , that way my games wouldnt need so many effin patches

i hope this time i made myself clear without offence


----------



## OneCool (Feb 25, 2012)

Be crazy if it turned out to be a AMD apu powering the ps4,Xbox3 and the new Wii


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## Benetanegia (Feb 25, 2012)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> that again is an opinion fella, id in that instance have gone for a 6950 but thats me



It's been a long time since I decided to buy sub 200 euro cards. My intention at first was to buy a replacement every year or going SLI or Crossfire as I required more GPU grunt, but that's not been the case. I rather spend my money on other things.

And I guess opinions can differ but it's not in my book to pay an extra of 30 euros for no performance benefit and inferior cooling.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 25, 2012)

im starting to think you an nvidia sales rep


----------



## Benetanegia (Feb 25, 2012)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> im starting to think you an nvidia sales rep



lol why? If both had been the same price or the 460 wasn't the SOC version it would have been a more difficult decision, but being things like they were... And that was one of the cheapest 460's in Spain, when I bought it. I guess someone made a mistake and effectively the next time I checked, 3-4 months later, the same card costed more than 180 euros so...


----------



## Super XP (Feb 25, 2012)

Congrats AMD


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 25, 2012)

Honestly HTC/S3 and PowerVR need to make GPUs for the consoles and computer markets again, Consoles will be one sided but I guess NV isnt bringing anything to the Table anytime soon.


----------



## MikeMurphy (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm tempted to bet that next gen will run an AMD APU with the GNC arch...perhaps even x86.  GPU performance should be just under the HD7750.

The days of expensive consoles are definitely over.


----------



## Inceptor (Feb 25, 2012)

Nyte said:


> As an employee of AMD's GPU division, I can gladly (and safely) say that you are all wrong.
> 
> But because I'm an employee, I can't say much else.



Cute.
So, are you saying that because you have pride in the products of your company, or, are you saying it because it feels good to be mysterious?
I'm curious, do you sit in a cubicle or do you have a window with a view of Leslie St or the 407 or staring at another building?

I'm not trying to be malicious, just trying to determine the nature of the comment.


----------



## xenocide (Feb 25, 2012)

I am not surprised to see this, with this generation of consoles they are going to be looking at 1-2 generation old GPU's.  What do we see there? The 5/6xxx series which ran pretty cool and consumed acceptable amounts of power, and Fermi which was rushed, ate power, and heated your whole house.  Nvidia has also been pretty douchey when it comes to Console manufacturers, the reason the 360 was out so early was literally because Nvidia shut down manufacturing for the original Xbox's GPU, forcing Microsoft to get their in development console out the doors asap.

As for comparing last-gen consoles, it's important to remember the GPU manufacturers have very little say in what goes into the system.  They developed what Sony\Microsoft\Nintendo asked them to.  The Playstation 3 was a terrible design from top to bottom, and featured terrible support on the developer side.  The Sony Development tools ran like absolute crap for the first couple years, and Sony's stance was that if something didn't work, the Developers themselves had to fix it.  Microsoft by comparison worked tirelessly to get their tools updated and were as streamlined and developer friendly as possible.

The Playstation 3 has hard restrictions and huge bottlenecks all over the place, the Nvidia GPU was the least of it's problems.  That being said, the Xenos was a phenomenal design.  Nvidia is clearly focusing on their mobile products (Tegra) while AMD is playing to their strengths.  Should be interesting to see what the next generation of consoles are packing under the hood.


----------



## Nyte (Feb 25, 2012)

Inceptor said:


> Cute.
> So, are you saying that because you have pride in the products of your company, or, are you saying it because it feels good to be mysterious?
> I'm curious, do you sit in a cubicle or do you have a window with a view of Leslie St or the 407 or staring at another building?
> 
> I'm not trying to be malicious, just trying to determine the nature of the comment.



I'm saying that to stop the rumor train and spread of mis-information.  I don't have pride nor reason to be mysterious.  I won't say who is wrong nor right but that there is too much mis-information in here that will (and is already) misleading alot of people.

And I work in a cubicle.

Does that answer your questions?


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## HTC (Feb 25, 2012)

Casecutter said:


> The problem is 28Nm cost increase levied by TSCM, it not near as cost effective due to that. I'd see AMD spinning a slightly enhanced 6670-6770 40Nm (matured process). Plenty of oomph for a console... economical and efficient. *Or is there time to have Global Foundries run a 28Nm?*



Thanks for the reply, dude!

I guess the deal with IBM isn't just with the APUs, then!


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## Super XP (Feb 25, 2012)

Katanai said:


> Noooooooooooooooooo! :shadedshu That crappy AMD chip in the 360 console is the main thing that holds back graphical advances in games. This is bad news my friends, no matter how you look at it. I was hoping that things will get better somehow but now I'm thinking they will get even worse...


NVIDIA Messed up the XBOX, which is why MS went with ATI for the 360, and which is why it was a powerful, efficient running GPU for its time, not to mention the development of the ring bus within the GPU.

Thank goodness AMD has both contracts for the NEW PS4 & XBOX.


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## cadaveca (Feb 25, 2012)

Nyte said:


> I'm saying that to stop the rumor train and spread of mis-information. I don't have pride nor reason to be mysterious. I won't say who is wrong nor right but that there is too much mis-information in here that will (and is already) misleading alot of people.



Unfortunately, while the motives may seem honorable, by not pointing out the fallacies directly for what they are, there's really little to be gained here for you.

I'm all for more corporate transparency, but of course, when the things you know may give you a competitive edge, you gotta keep your lips zipped.

Mis-information, or whatever, is ALWAYS going to be part of the industry, too. Sometimes it's used simply to detract from the truth, as again, the things you know can be an advantage...and that advantage can lead to millions of dollars.


So misinformation can be useful too. You just gotta know when to draw the line.


Just sayin'.


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## Katanai (Feb 25, 2012)

Super XP said:


> NVIDIA Messed up the XBOX, which is why MS went with ATI for the 360, and which is why it was a powerful, efficient running GPU for its time, not to mention the development of the ring bus within the GPU.
> 
> Thank goodness AMD has both contracts for the NEW PS4 & XBOX.



Bla! Bla! Bla! Xbox 360 graphics sucks! And it's all aTI, please don't try to bring Nividia into this. And I have to sufer the consequences because the ATI hardware in the Xbox console won't play along otherwise... Yeah! This great chip you're all supporting won't play some titles at 1080p just 720p with half-assed settings and I have to go along with that just because I don't have a choice... And you call this progress?!? I calll it money lanudry!!! If you can't build a proper chip, GTFO of the market!!!...


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## Zakin (Feb 25, 2012)

Yup, the chip that AMD designed back in probably late 2004 can't play all games in 1080p. Gasp.


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## xenocide (Feb 25, 2012)

Katanai said:


> Bla! Bla! Bla! Xbox 360 graphics sucks! And it's all aTI, please don't try to bring Nividia into this. And I have to sufer the consequences because the ATI hardware in the Xbox console won't play along otherwise... Yeah! This great chip you're all supporting won't play some titles at 1080p just 720p with half-assed settings and I have to go along with that just because I don't have a choice... And you call this progress?!? I calll it money lanudry!!! If you can't build a proper chip, GTFO of the market!!!...



No offense, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.  The GPU in the Xbox 360 is very good all things considered, and all things includes the fact it was designed *7-8 years ago*.  At launch it had features high-end PC GPU's didn't even have yet.  Considering it only has access to about 512MB of RAM at any given time, it's not surprising at all that highly detailed textures at high resolutions are problematic, but the same is true of the PS3.  In the realm of consoles, the 360 is probably one of the most well engineered consoles to date.


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## bostonbuddy (Feb 25, 2012)

Sony said we want these specs what will it cost, AMD was cheaper.


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## OneCool (Feb 25, 2012)

Well the 360 was originally designed with a X800 gpu but was upgraded to X1800 later.So it could have been alot worst.If MS would have kept that setup the Xbox3 would have been here 4+ years ago.

After thinking about it for a day it does strike me as odd that all of the big 3 consoles will be running a AMD gpu and nVidia didnt fight to get at least one of them.
I think there is somethng else going on we cant see or dont know.


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## enaher (Feb 25, 2012)

Funny how much winning about Ati graphics, last I heard RRoD had much more to do with the CPu, Last I heard the crappy console graphics we're less crappy on the Xbox 360, Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less. I haven't bought a console since the Ps2, and won't be switching any time soon but, I'm amazed how much miss information is going on in this thread and how fanboy's jumpout of nowhere


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## Super XP (Feb 25, 2012)

OneCool said:


> Well the 360 was originally designed with a X800 gpu but was upgraded to X1800 later.So it could have been alot worst.If MS would have kept that setup the Xbox3 would have been here 4+ years ago.
> 
> After thinking about it for a day it does strike me as odd that all of the big 3 consoles will be running a AMD gpu and nVidia didnt fight to get at least one of them.
> I think there is somethng else going on we cant see or dont know.


Today I am sure NVIDIA resolved its console GPU issues, but in the past, they F'ed up Big Time. Dam NVIDIA based consoles, there GPU's were running HOT and would crash the system. XBOX 1 had this problem, and facts don't, lie.


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## xenocide (Feb 25, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Today I am sure NVIDIA resolved its console GPU issues, but in the past, they F'ed up Big Time. Dam NVIDIA based consoles, there GPU's were running HOT and would crash the system. XBOX 1 had this problem, and facts don't, lie.



And the Xbox 360 had problems with overheating--using an AMD GPU.  The problem is clearly Microsoft's inability to correctly design hardware.  Stop playing loose and hard with the facts


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## enaher (Feb 25, 2012)

xenocide said:


> And the Xbox 360 had problems with overheating--using an AMD GPU.  The problem is clearly Microsoft's inability to correctly design hardware.  Stop playing loose and hard with the facts



Both consoles we're overheating, again it had more to do with the cpu, and the Xbox 360 had a lager incidence and higher failure rates when introduced, current selection of AMD has lot more to do with performance/watt/heat ratio and price, It's not that nvidia sucks or AMD is better, it's just that AMD is a better pick for console needs, again complaining that AMD gpu's will make consoles suck is a lie, they'll suck cause they're consoles and five to seven years behind current PC hardware.


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## xenocide (Feb 25, 2012)

enaher said:


> Both consoles we're overheating, again it had more to do with the cpu, and the Xbox 360 had a lager incidence and higher failure rates when introduced, current selection of AMD has lot more to do with performance/watt/heat ratio and price, It's not that nvidia sucks or AMD is better, it's just that AMD is a better pick for console needs, again complaining that AMD gpu's will make consoles suck is a lie, they'll suck cause they're consoles and five to seven years behind current PC hardware.



The Xbox 360 had a ton of different hardware failures--DVD Drives dying, CPU and GPU overheating (on early models), sloppy soldering, poor airflow, and numerous others.  Like I said, the GPU was the least of the concerns.  I was mostly addressing that someone tried to pin overheating on Nvidia GPU's, when it is more a problem with Consoles and poor design.  If Nvidia designs the best and fastest design, and Microsoft uses Elmers Glue and Lead to cool it, they can't exactly be blamed can they?


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 25, 2012)

xenocide said:


> The Xbox 360 had a ton of different hardware failures--DVD Drives dying, CPU and GPU overheating (on early models), sloppy soldering, poor airflow, and numerous others.  Like I said, the GPU was the least of the concerns.  I was mostly addressing that someone tried to pin overheating on Nvidia GPU's, when it is more a problem with Consoles and poor design.  If Nvidia designs the best and fastest design, and Microsoft uses Elmers Glue and Lead to cool it, they can't exactly be blamed can they?



half these consoles are sat on a soddin carpet with a dog throwing its fur at it every ten mins with absolutley no PM maintenance bar a lid wipe now and again

yeh it was me, i said it!

an engineer says,! what!banghead:

they both have had issues but on the whole who was ever going to own up to their dog bumming their console to death and anywayssss


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## Katanai (Feb 26, 2012)

xenocide said:


> In the realm of consoles, the 360 is probably one of the most well engineered consoles to date.



 Ahahahahahaha! What are you on?  Some country music seems appropriate now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGXMrJafaCE


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## 1c3d0g (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm still trying to pick myself off the floor from laughing so hard.

Xenocide: is there a name for this private world of yours? You've probably never heard of the RRoD and the BILLIONS it cost M$ just to fix this major design flaw, not to mention the numerous other issues that popped up during the Xbox360's lifetime. 

Anyways, consoles are for boys and girlie men. Real men play with a damn PC. 'Nuff said.


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## MilkyWay (Feb 26, 2012)

As soon as i read the thread title i thought, this will make ports much easier lol.


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## xenocide (Feb 26, 2012)

1c3d0g said:


> Xenocide: is there a name for this private world of yours? You've probably never heard of the RRoD and the BILLIONS it cost M$ just to fix this major design flaw, not to mention the numerous other issues that popped up during the Xbox360's lifetime.



There is a fine line between Engineering and Design.  All of the problems with the Xbox 360 were design-related.  From an Engineering stand point, the way they used efficient memory to cover up the fact that they didn't have a lot of memory, and incorporated very advanced (for the time) features that even the best discrete desktop solutions didn't have, says a lot about the Engineering behind it.  But when MS takes that and uses crap thermal paste, or poor quality soldering, or use DVD drives taht eat DVD's, it makes it appear as though the whole system was crap.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 26, 2012)

Ms Make Xbox s themselves?? I favour no but not sure

My comp
any spends  thousands per pcb ate tested the works, they still fail


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## Super XP (Feb 26, 2012)

xenocide said:


> There is a fine line between Engineering and Design.  All of the problems with the Xbox 360 were design-related.  From an Engineering stand point, the way they used efficient memory to cover up the fact that they didn't have a lot of memory, and incorporated very advanced (for the time) features that even the best discrete desktop solutions didn't have, says a lot about the Engineering behind it.  But when MS takes that and uses crap thermal paste, or poor quality soldering, or use DVD drives taht eat DVD's, it makes it appear as though the whole system was crap.


This is one of the reasons why MS won't deal with NVIDIA.

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-...o-arbitration-over-pricing-of-Xbox-processors


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## ensabrenoir (Feb 26, 2012)

All the good noise from Amd's camp always involve graphics..... cant knock them at all there....Amd sets the bar.


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## nt300 (Feb 26, 2012)

This is great news for AMD. They need these contracts real bad and they have them


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## D4S4 (Feb 26, 2012)

1c3d0g said:


> I'm still trying to pick myself off the floor from laughing so hard.
> 
> Xenocide: is there a name for this private world of yours? You've probably never heard of the RRoD and the BILLIONS it cost M$ just to fix this major design flaw, not to mention the numerous other issues that popped up during the Xbox360's lifetime.
> 
> Anyways, consoles are for boys and girlie men. Real men play with a damn PC. 'Nuff said.



console's hardware = engineer's work

console's solder = cost cutter's work

the hardware was good but somebody's decision to save a few cents off every console was what killed so many.


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## Super XP (Feb 26, 2012)

D4S4 said:


> console's hardware = engineer's work
> 
> console's solder = cost cutter's work
> 
> the hardware was good but somebody's decision to save a few cents off every console was what killed so many.


The good old days. The Sega Dreamcast which was ahead of its time and was canceled way to soon (CEO made a huge mistake and pissed off DC developers and DC owners). My point, the Dreamcast was a nice piece of hardware, better graphically for its time vs. The PS3/XBOX 360 for there time.

The Dreamcast blew away the PS1&2, XBOX and any other gaming console before and after DreamCast's release date. 

My point is, the days of quality console hardware ended with the Dreamcast. If developers had more time with DC the games would have been very close to current consoles games of today IMO. Mark my words.

Example: Crazy Taxi 1&2 on the DC still till this day blows away the PS3 & 360 versions.


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