# Help me choose my new ISP!



## DanishDevil (Oct 29, 2014)

I've got some really shitty options at my new place (it's one of many 5 acre lots in the area, so the ISP's won't give us better options because of lack of population density). I will be moving in within the next 6 months, but the ISPs need several weeks heads up to get things rolling. 

I play games (FPS as well, so good ping is desirable) and stream a decent amount of video. I use around 750-1200GB of data per month, so anything with a data cap is out. There are no point-to-point radio ISPs within range, and the only consumer option is $90/mo DSL that's so far from the central hub that it is rated at 1Mb/384kb.

My two best options for internet are (both business-class):

*3Mb/3Mb T1 - $3000 install, $200/mo*
They have to install a repeater in order to make this happen. I don't know if that's going to affect latency. From my limited research, it looks like T1 should have good ping, but obviously the bandwidth isn't there for large downloads or video streaming. This is on a 3yr contract, ETF is 100% of remaining contract if cancelled in the first year, and 50% of remaining contract after 12 months. 

*20Mb/20Mb Fiber - $15,000 install, $500/mo*
This is contingent on me and another customer both pulling the trigger to split the construction cost. This obviously would be the higher performing option. This is on a 5yr contract, ETF is 100% of remaining contract, period. They have also offered a 100/100 option for $3500 install and $1195/mo and 4yr contract, but the wife has pretty much vetoed that. 

The good news is, there is a lot more to do at the new property than be online, so the slower T1 option may be the way to go if I can shift my time spent away from the internet. 

There is decent cell service, but data caps exist, and the prospect from ISPs is bleak with having any additional options in the near future as the amount of distance to be covered per house is astronomical. 

Thanks again for your help!


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## ShiBDiB (Oct 29, 2014)

Sprint hotspot with unlimited data?


None of your options are good, but if you're spending thousands of dollars down plus thousands over the span of a contract for internet to play some FPS/Stream you're (politely) f'ing insane.


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## Aquinus (Oct 30, 2014)

Being right outside LA, how do you not have better options than that? Unless you're out in the boons at your new place that isn't on your account, I can't imagine these options being available and others not. At least here in NH, if Cable isn't an option, neither is fiber. If those are really your only options, you should go with the DSL. I guess it depends on how important your internet is to you and what your available funds are like but any normal person would say DSL hands down simply because of the cost.


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## brandonwh64 (Oct 30, 2014)

You do NOT want a T1... thats some of old tech and Most are done over ATM network


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## Chetkigaming (Oct 30, 2014)

All this deals are no good, i`d better choose another place to live, in sake of playing games.


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## flmatter (Oct 30, 2014)

I have some extra fish hooks and line I can send your way      Fish on!


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## v12dock (Oct 30, 2014)

Those are you only options...? No WISPs in your area? Could yo get a wireless signal from a location with good internet to your house? I think you can rent space on t-mobile towers.


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## Sasqui (Oct 30, 2014)

Any neighbors to share costs with?  Or show you good fishing spots?


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## DanishDevil (Oct 31, 2014)

ShiBDiB said:


> Sprint hotspot with unlimited data?
> 
> 
> None of your options are good, but if you're spending thousands of dollars down plus thousands over the span of a contract for internet to play some FPS/Stream you're (politely) f'ing insane.



4G ping won't really be good enough to game, and Verizon is the only good cell service in the area according to the neighbors.



Aquinus said:


> Being right outside LA, how do you not have better options than that? Unless you're out in the boons at your new place that isn't on your account, I can't imagine these options being available and others not. At least here in NH, if Cable isn't an option, neither is fiber. If those are really your only options, you should go with the DSL. I guess it depends on how important your internet is to you and what your available funds are like but any normal person would say DSL hands down simply because of the cost.



I'm actually moving to an area outside of Sacramento. It's about 8 minutes from subdivisions, but everything in the immediate area is all 5 acre parcels or larger. That's why there aren't any better options.



brandonwh64 said:


> You do NOT want a T1... thats some of old tech and Most are done over ATM network



Can you elaborate on the issues with this? I realize that it's old tech, but from my research online, if fiber or DSL aren't an option, ping should be good and it should be a relatively reliable connection.



Chetkigaming said:


> All this deals are no good, i`d better choose another place to live, in sake of playing games.



Definitely not choosing another place to live, it's a little late for that now. My wife and I are in love with the property, and have already begun some renovations.



flmatter said:


> I have some extra fish hooks and line I can send your way      Fish on!



Thanks bud!



v12dock said:


> Those are you only options...? No WISPs in your area? Could yo get a wireless signal from a location with good internet to your house? I think you can rent space on t-mobile towers.



I researched WISPs, we're a quarter mile out of range from one, and all the others are over 5mi out of range.



Sasqui said:


> Any neighbors to share costs with?  Or show you good fishing spots?



There are a couple neighbors "nearby" (remember, 5 acre parcels) but they're all much older and said that they would only be willing to spend about $500 install and $150/mo on a better internet solution. Obviously, internet isn't a large enough part of their daily lives.

This should help make some sense of the reason why there aren't any good internet options, and why internet may not be the end all be all:


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 31, 2014)

T1 is twisted pair internet like dsl. Its considered special service/DS1


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## Aquinus (Oct 31, 2014)

DanishDevil said:


> Can you elaborate on the issues with this? I realize that it's old tech, but from my research online, if fiber or DSL aren't an option, ping should be good and it should be a relatively reliable connection.


It's that there is no room for upgrading. If you're going to throw down that much money in the first place, you might as well go for something decent that has options going forward, but it's obviously a hard choice. I think this is one of those "go all or go home" problems. I think regardless of what you do, you'll be unhappy with something, be it speed, latency, or cost. That's the price you pay.

Maybe you could get the fiber and setup wireless with wave-guide antennas and sell internet to your neighbors to offset the cost.


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## brandonwh64 (Oct 31, 2014)

DanishDevil said:


> Can you elaborate on the issues with this? I realize that it's old tech, but from my research online, if fiber or DSL aren't an option, ping should be good and it should be a relatively reliable connection.



T1 connections are only 24*64k = 1.536 Mbps. Also is T1 connections are not used as often as they once were meaning if he cannot get fiber/DSL/Cable then a T1 is probably out of the question as well. T1's are mainly used for businesses for their phone system such as a PRI. A T1 line can carry 24 digitized voice channels, or it can carry data at a rate of 1.544 megabits per second. If the T1 line is being used for telephone conversations, it plugs into the office's phone system. If it is carrying data it plugs into the network's router. A T1 connection is a step above ISDN/56k INET.



DS0 - 64 kilobits per second

ISDN - Two DS0 lines plus signaling (16 kilobytes per second), or 128 kilobits per second

T1 - 1.544 megabits per second (24 DS0 lines)

T3 - 43.232 megabits per second (28 T1s)

OC3 - 155 megabits per second (84 T1s)

OC12 - 622 megabits per second (4 OC3s)

OC48 - 2.5 gigabits per seconds (4 OC12s)

OC192 - 9.6 gigabits per second (4 OC48s)

Hope this helps


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 31, 2014)

No coax providers in the area?


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## P4-630 (Oct 31, 2014)

wow wow those prices


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## flmatter (Oct 31, 2014)

I would be down on those docks with a cooler of beer, a chair and a fishing pole.....  Heck of a view and very nice property!!!

internet?  what's that?


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## Aquinus (Oct 31, 2014)

eidairaman1 said:


> No coax providers in the area?


Northern NH tends to have this issue. For example: Sandwich, NH does not have a cable provider. For TV your only option is satellite and for internet your option is DSL. The OP's situation sounds very similar.


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## v12dock (Oct 31, 2014)

DanishDevil said:


> I researched WISPs, we're a quarter mile out of range from one, and all the others are over 5mi out of range.



Could you get a tower?


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## brandonwh64 (Oct 31, 2014)

this is for people that live in remote areas of the US

http://www.hughesnet.com/


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## Nordic (Oct 31, 2014)

brandonwh64 said:


> this is for people that live in remote areas of the US
> 
> http://www.hughesnet.com/


Wouldn't that have terrible ping negating his gaming?


Really it seems unless you come up with another option, go all out or go fishing.


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## Aquinus (Oct 31, 2014)

brandonwh64 said:


> this is for people that live in remote areas of the US
> 
> http://www.hughesnet.com/


Satellite has bandwidth caps and crappy latency. He couldn't use the same amount of bandwidth or play FPS games on that.

If it's legal, I would consider getting the Fiber and reselling it to his neighbors. If he does it right, his neighbors would pay for most of the monthly bill and it would really be the installation he would be paying for. 15,000 over 4 years is almost ~350 USD a month. So if he can get neighbors to cover a large portion of it, it could work out if he has the capital to invest upfront. It would be worth it if the OP is planning on having the house for more than a decade.


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## chuck216 (Nov 1, 2014)

So I take it that Verizon FiOS is not an option? Because $125~$150/mo for a 25/25 or 50/50 residential connection sound better than any of those, and would include Phone and TV service.


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## Aquinus (Nov 1, 2014)

chuck216 said:


> So I take it that Verizon FiOS is not an option? Because $125~$150/mo for a 25/25 or 50/50 residential connection sound better than any of those, and would include Phone and TV service.


He wouldn't be asking if there was.


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## DanishDevil (Nov 2, 2014)

*Thanks for your help so far guys, even though it's not all good news it's good to hear that I've done my research relatively thoroughly. *



eidairaman1 said:


> T1 is twisted pair internet like dsl. Its considered special service/DS1



Got it. 



Aquinus said:


> It's that there is no room for upgrading. If you're going to throw down that much money in the first place, you might as well go for something decent that has options going forward, but it's obviously a hard choice. I think this is one of those "go all or go home" problems. I think regardless of what you do, you'll be unhappy with something, be it speed, latency, or cost. That's the price you pay.
> 
> Maybe you could get the fiber and setup wireless with wave-guide antennas and sell internet to your neighbors to offset the cost.



I had considered that, but most of the neighbors are happy with the status quo as they are over twice my age 



brandonwh64 said:


> T1 connections are only 24*64k = 1.536 Mbps. Also is T1 connections are not used as often as they once were meaning if he cannot get fiber/DSL/Cable then a T1 is probably out of the question as well. T1's are mainly used for businesses for their phone system such as a PRI. A T1 line can carry 24 digitized voice channels, or it can carry data at a rate of 1.544 megabits per second. If the T1 line is being used for telephone conversations, it plugs into the office's phone system. If it is carrying data it plugs into the network's router. A T1 connection is a step above ISDN/56k INET.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, I had looked into that. I have begged them to bond more than 2 T1's, they said that the max they can do is two bonded T1's for ~3Mb/s synchronous. 



eidairaman1 said:


> No coax providers in the area?



No sir, I've searched many hours for one. 



P4-630 said:


> wow wow those prices



You're tellin' me!



flmatter said:


> I would be down on those docks with a cooler of beer, a chair and a fishing pole.....  Heck of a view and very nice property!!!
> 
> internet?  what's that?



:cheers:



Aquinus said:


> Northern NH tends to have this issue. For example: Sandwich, NH does not have a cable provider. For TV your only option is satellite and for internet your option is DSL. The OP's situation sounds very similar.



Pretty similar, except for the fact that there's full-blown fiber 3mi away. It just costs too much to run 3mi of fiber to hit ~50 homes on the way. 



v12dock said:


> Could you get a tower?



I assume this would be for a WISP. The closest WISP to me was unwilling to speak to me after realizing I was out of their coverage area. Doesn't seem like they're willing to work with me much. 



brandonwh64 said:


> this is for people that live in remote areas of the US
> 
> http://www.hughesnet.com/



Bandwidth caps and high ping have nixed this as an option. I have even found a local satellite company with zero bandwidth caps, but unless I want to have a T1 for games and a satellite connection for movies, it's not worth bothering over. 



james888 said:


> Wouldn't that have terrible ping negating his gaming?
> 
> 
> Really it seems unless you come up with another option, go all out or go fishing.







Aquinus said:


> Satellite has bandwidth caps and crappy latency. He couldn't use the same amount of bandwidth or play FPS games on that.
> 
> If it's legal, I would consider getting the Fiber and reselling it to his neighbors. If he does it right, his neighbors would pay for most of the monthly bill and it would really be the installation he would be paying for. 15,000 over 4 years is almost ~350 USD a month. So if he can get neighbors to cover a large portion of it, it could work out if he has the capital to invest upfront. It would be worth it if the OP is planning on having the house for more than a decade.



It may or may not be against their TOS, but my wife and I travel a lot now that we're married and I wouldn't want to have to manage an issue with one of my neighbor's internet while I was out of town. That, and they won't pay squat for anything better. 



chuck216 said:


> So I take it that Verizon FiOS is not an option? Because $125~$150/mo for a 25/25 or 50/50 residential connection sound better than any of those, and would include Phone and TV service.



Correct, FiOS is nowhere near us. 



Aquinus said:


> He wouldn't be asking if there was.



You got it!


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 2, 2014)

Yeah for them to extend fiber to even a node in that arwa costs tons.


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## Nordic (Nov 2, 2014)

Please inform us of your choice. I want to get some land, just like you have someday and may have to make a similar decision.


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## bubbleawsome (Nov 2, 2014)

Aw man, sucks for you. I couldn't live with that internet. Call me spoiled but I've been having trouble adjusting to 11/3 internet after having 65/5. 

Good luck on whichever you choose!


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## hat (Nov 2, 2014)

Those prices are insane to me. I don't know what your financial situation is but I couldn't imagine paying more than what it takes for the DSL. Maybe spring for the T1 if you're serious about gaming and all... it's not a lot of bandwidth, but gaming doesn't take much. The DSL would easily get congested though... but even on the T1 something like netflix streaming could probably cripple gaming performance.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 2, 2014)

Untill the boonies he lives in gets developed, he wont see an affordable price- ps fttp is better than fttn.


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## Aquinus (Nov 2, 2014)

bubbleawsome said:


> Aw man, sucks for you. I couldn't live with that internet. Call me spoiled but I've been having trouble adjusting to 11/3 internet after having 65/5.
> 
> Good luck on whichever you choose!


I could never go back. Sometimes I have to figure if my bottleneck is my wireless or my modem.






Granted, I live in a very populated area and Boston is only a couple hops on Comcast's network away so I have it pretty good (internet wise) but I don't have 5 acres and waterfront though (considering I'm an hour-ish out of Boston). You can't really have your cake and eat it too unless you're really well off. You need people who live near you who want a service, otherwise there is no reason for them to expand out your way.


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## DanishDevil (Nov 3, 2014)

eidairaman1 said:


> Yeah for them to extend fiber to even a node in that arwa costs tons.



Yeah and out of the two companies that are nearby, one is a pretty large business (meaning if it's not profitable for them they're not going to consider it) and the other was a small business that was aggressively expanding that may have been up for hooking us up, but they were recently acquired. 



james888 said:


> Please inform us of your choice. I want to get some land, just like you have someday and may have to make a similar decision.



Will do! Right now, I'm leaning towards the T1 option, especially because they have a 50% ETF after the first 12 months if something better happens to come along. I don't think I could handle the DSL. 



bubbleawsome said:


> Aw man, sucks for you. I couldn't live with that internet. Call me spoiled but I've been having trouble adjusting to 11/3 internet after having 65/5.
> 
> Good luck on whichever you choose!



I recently got bumped to 200/25, so I'm gonna have a very severe version of what you're feeling when I move! Thanks!



hat said:


> Those prices are insane to me. I don't know what your financial situation is but I couldn't imagine paying more than what it takes for the DSL. Maybe spring for the T1 if you're serious about gaming and all... it's not a lot of bandwidth, but gaming doesn't take much. The DSL would easily get congested though... but even on the T1 something like netflix streaming could probably cripple gaming performance.



According to Netflix, you need 5Mb down to stream 720P. My wife has already started buying DVDs to make up for it. It's just going to be the two of us right now, so we'll just have to watch out when I want to game and she wants to watch a movie. The DSL would likely make my hair fall out, give me ulcers, and probably heart palpitations. 



eidairaman1 said:


> Untill the boonies he lives in gets developed, he wont see an affordable price- ps fttp is better than fttn.



With it all being 5 acre lots, it's doubtful that they'll ever get developed further than they are now. Also, looked into those acronyms & I'm not 100% sure which it would be, but I'd wager FTTP. 



Aquinus said:


> I could never go back. Sometimes I have to figure if my bottleneck is my wireless or my modem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Maybe if the older generation's kids end up staying in the area, I'll have more people who want to pitch in.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 3, 2014)

Fttn is fiber to a node from the co to a irad/vrad from there goes to a existing copper telco sai /crossbox, fttp is fiber to the prem from the co all the way to your home-normally a PON (bpon/gpon) hooked to side of home then ethernet connection is required.


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## DanishDevil (Nov 17, 2014)

I am signing the contract with for 3/3 T1 for $220/mo. Wish me luck!


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## Jborg (Nov 17, 2014)

Ill stick with the speed at my dads house - 250KB/s 



Luckily its 5 mb/s at my moms.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 17, 2014)

Where the heck are they?


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 17, 2014)

Boo. Bad choice. You obviously have money if you are purchasing 5 acres outside Sacramento... Why not add value to your lot and get that 20/20 fiber line installed. It woul dbe a HUGE bonus if you decide to sell, especially where you are. A lot of techies retreat to outside Sacramento and would love a dedicated fiber line.


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## Nordic (Nov 17, 2014)

Thank you for sharing. Interesting that you took the middle choice.


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## Aquinus (Nov 18, 2014)

Easy Rhino said:


> Boo. Bad choice. You obviously have money if you are purchasing 5 acres outside Sacramento... Why not add value to your lot and get that 20/20 fiber line installed. It woul dbe a HUGE bonus if you decide to sell, especially where you are. A lot of techies retreat to outside Sacramento and would love a dedicated fiber line.


You could even brag to your neighbors and offer to sell them a slice of the pie using a wave guide antenna across that pond of yours. They'll love you for it.


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## Dbiggs9 (Nov 18, 2014)

That price is unreal! i wish you luck.


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## DanishDevil (Dec 2, 2014)

[voice=Professor Farnsworth]Good news everyone![/voice] The ISP found a vacant pair so I don't have to pay any install fees for the T1 line! Installation is set for later this month. I'll update you guys on my impressions later.


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## Aquinus (Dec 2, 2014)

DanishDevil said:


> [voice=Professor Farnsworth]Good news everyone![/voice] The ISP found a vacant pair so I don't have to pay any install fees for the T1 line! Installation is set for later this month. I'll update you guys on my impressions later.


Lucky. That alone makes it worth it considering the cost of installation. Optimal, no. Usable, sure.


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## Nordic (Dec 2, 2014)

Free installation makes up for the slow internet. That is 15 months free internet kind of. $3000/$200 = 15 months


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## OneMoar (Dec 2, 2014)

a T1 is going to be worthless lol
3 Megabit ? thats ADSL slow . .


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## Aquinus (Dec 2, 2014)

OneMoar said:


> a T1 is going to be worthless lol


When the next best thing is fiber that's going to cost 15,000 USD to install and another 500 USD a month just to get 20/20? I think you should keep the options in perspective.


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## OneMoar (Dec 2, 2014)

Aquinus said:


> When the next best thing is fiber that's going to cost 15,000 USD to install and another 500 USD a month just to get 20/20? I think you should keep the options in perspective.


I would love to know why fiber would be 15k unless hes starting his own ISP or is paying to have lines run
either way hes not going to be gaming on a T1 line
forget about it at 3/3 over a T1 expect ping times to LA to hit about 120Ms if you are going to the east coast FORGET ABOUT IT


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## Aquinus (Dec 2, 2014)

OneMoar said:


> I would love to know why fiber would be 15k unless hes starting his own ISP or is paying to have lines run
> either way hes not going to be gaming on a T1 line
> forget about it


If you read the thread you would know that. There is no cable where he lives, DSL is far away so speeds are crap and to get fiber he needs to have it run out to his house; it's not already there.

Leave it to you to not read the thread before posting...


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## OneMoar (Dec 2, 2014)

Aquinus said:


> If you read the thread you would know that. There is no cable where he lives, DSL is far away so speeds are crap and to get fiber he needs to have it run out to his house; it's not already there.
> 
> Leave it to you to not read the thread before posting...


WELP Hes SOL then


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## Nordic (Dec 2, 2014)

@OneMoar, if you actually read it the 3/3 is not a bad choice given the limited options.


DanishDevil said:


> I've got some really shitty options at my new place (it's one of many 5 acre lots in the area, so the ISP's won't give us better options because of lack of population density). I will be moving in within the next 6 months, but the ISPs need several weeks heads up to get things rolling.
> 
> 
> *20Mb/20Mb Fiber - $15,000 install, $500/mo*
> This is contingent on me and another customer both pulling the trigger to split the construction cost. This obviously would be the higher performing option. This is on a 5yr contract, ETF is 100% of remaining contract, period. They have also offered a 100/100 option for $3500 install and $1195/mo and 4yr contract, but the wife has pretty much vetoed that.



edit:


OneMoar said:


> WELP Hes SOL then


Sounds like you don't understand this thread at all. There are other things to do than be online, especially if you have a nice 5 acre lot with water on it.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 2, 2014)

DanishDevil said:


> [voice=Professor Farnsworth]Good news everyone![/voice] The ISP found a vacant pair so I don't have to pay any install fees for the T1 line! Installation is set for later this month. I'll update you guys on my impressions later.



I hope they dont have to do additional conditioning to make it work (dig ups/resplicing


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## bubbleawsome (Dec 3, 2014)

Funny thing is, that 3/3 internet is faster than when I had 3/1 for $60/mo


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## OneMoar (Dec 3, 2014)

bubbleawsome said:


> Funny thing is, that 3/3 internet is faster than when I had 3/1 for $60/mo


Hes paying 150.00 a month +3k to install it ...


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## Nordic (Dec 3, 2014)

OneMoar said:


> Hes paying 150.00 a month +3k to install it ...


I wasn't going to say anything, but it is just too funny how you again show you didn't read the thread. It is $200 a month.


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## Aquinus (Dec 3, 2014)

OneMoar said:


> Hes paying 150.00 a month +3k to install it ...


Read the thread already... my god.


DanishDevil said:


> The ISP found a vacant pair so I don't have to pay any install fees for the T1 line!


You really need to stop posting before you read a thread... It's not doing your credibility any favors.


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## DanishDevil (Dec 18, 2014)

So I officially had my new 3x3 bonded T1 line installed on Tuesday morning, but I had to fly back to Southern California a few hours later, so I had very little time to test it.

My laptop (Razer Blade) does not have a wired ethernet port, and I didn't want to buy a new router just to stick in the garage for 2 months, so tests were done with a Linksys E3000 over the 5GHz band to a Killer WiFi N card.

I should have copied the links of the tests, but here's what I remember. Best ping with nothing running to my closest server was 11ms with 2ms of jitter. I never experienced packet loss. Upload and download speeds came in at 2.85Mb/s each. A pingtest to Los Angeles (about 400mi away) netted me 44ms with 5ms jitter. Not terrible. 

Then I did some stress testing. I hopped on an audio-only Skype call and started up a twitch stream. I could not watch the stream at Source quality, but High seemed to work well. I don't know exactly what these resolutions are, and my laptop's res is 1600x900, but it was nice to see that I could still watch a stream one step down from what I was used to.

I managed to watch a 1080P YouTube video without buffering! I was nervous that 720P wouldn't work, but 1080P seemed to barely keep up, but it did without anything else going on.

Then I got my hopes up for Netflix. I started up the last episode of Flashpoint that my wife and I had watched and kept a close eye on the video quality. Methinks that because Netflix streams at such a higher bitrate than YouTube, the video stream never went above 480P. I was already thinking that streaming Netflix would be pretty much off the table in HD quality, and I think I was right.

I got clarification on why I didn't have to pay an install cost. There was an abandoned T1 repeater nearby that used to be used for a cell phone tower that was no longer operational. The install they were going to charge me was to install a T1 repeater because of the distance from the nearest hub to my residence. I then asked the installer if I could pay the ~$3,000 to put in a second repeater so I could have 4 bonded T1's for 6Mb/s up and down. He went to the pole to investigate. There were only 6 pairs of lines leading to the pole, one going to my house for the old telephone/DSL line, and one going to another neighbor. Each T1 required 2 pairs, and because I was getting two bonded T1's and a phone line, they had to dedicate every line on that pole but the one already going to a neighbor to me. Long story short, if I want anything faster (and this is not a guaranteed possibility either), I would not only be paying for another T1 repeater, but also to run an additional 4 lines from the repeater to our pole. I agreed to see how the 3x3 went and look into the possibility of 6x6 if I wasn't happy with 3x3.

I will post pictures of the hardware as well as more testing the next time I'm up there after the holidays. Thank you :cheers: to everyone who had input and constructive comments. It's looking better than what I had feared it could be, but it's still definitely going to take some adjustments from my normal habits.


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## DanishDevil (Jan 1, 2015)

Finally got a chance to do a wired speedtest. This was done using a USB 2.0 > Ethernet adapter into my Razer Blade. I don't know if that introduces any ping degradation vs. a dedicated gigabit ethernet port, but I doubt it.















In other news, I got my first bill. They forgot to apply my 3yr contract discount, so the internet portion was charged at $799. A quick phone call fixed that, so total for this connection, one static IP, and a business telephone line with long distance capability is going to cost me $238/mo after all taxes and fees.

While it looks like YouTube is going to be just fine at 720P/1080P with a little buffering, other higher bit-rate streaming services are going to top out at 480P, but gaming looks very promising at 12ms! We are further from LA, which is a relatively popular server location, but at least this old tech doesn't look like it's going to take gaming off the table. Patches/re-downloads are going to take forever, though!

Picked up a DropCam for keeping an eye on construction while we're out of town, let's hope having it constantly uploading doesn't tank these numbers too much. I read it should take up about 0.5 Mb/s of upload, not sure if it will affect ping, though.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 1, 2015)

Most telephony lines are 40+ years old.


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## OneMoar (Jan 1, 2015)

those speeds are utter poo the second you put any load on the connection the pings are gonna skyrocket


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## R-T-B (Jan 1, 2015)

OneMoar said:


> those speeds are utter poo the second you put any load on the connection the pings are gonna skyrocket



They are typical of a T1, and as mentioned, that's really his only option within reason.  He could go play outside and check his email on the odd occasion or queue a download.  Some people actually do this.


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## Aquinus (Jan 1, 2015)

OneMoar said:


> those speeds are utter poo the second you put any load on the connection the pings are gonna skyrocket


You can pay that 500 USD bill for 20/20 fiber and the 15k USD installation cost. 
Seriously, stop posting if all you're going to do is complain.


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## bpgt64 (Jan 1, 2015)

T1 is going to be your best option for stability....Since there usually is some kind of up time/quality guarantee which will be very important for gaming.  Anything bandwidth intensive will suck though.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 1, 2015)

T1 lines are just as good or bad as dsl lines.


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## hat (Jan 1, 2015)

DanishDevil said:


> Finally got a chance to do a wired speedtest. This was done using a USB 2.0 > Ethernet adapter into my Razer Blade. I don't know if that introduces any ping degradation vs. a dedicated gigabit ethernet port, but I doubt it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Looks like you got a good connection, DD! With that down speed, downloading big shit like a new game on Steam, or a multitude of windows updates will take a while, but at least once you got all the heavy shit packed away it won't be so bad. Looks good for gaming, but you might tank if you try to game and do streaming or something at the same time... but there's QoS settings for that. Could be worse there's always dialup lol


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## OneMoar (Jan 1, 2015)

speeds are in MBit
so thats roughly 300KB/s both ways


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## bubbleawsome (Jan 1, 2015)

I had 3/1 internet for a while. It takes a while to download stuff but gaming is fine most of the time. My ping would tank sometimes but it isn't too bad.


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## DanishDevil (Apr 1, 2015)

Moving in over the weekend. Expect some daily usage impressions once I re-run the ethernet cables through the 200ft trench! Will I go crazy and drop absurd amounts of money on fiber? Will I be able to play multiplayer games without pulling my hair out? Will life be fine? Will I walk away from the internets and become a life-long fisherman? Find out soon!


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 4, 2015)

200 ft trench? Burried! If youre going to have wire burried either encap it in pvc or use drop wire (2-5 pair cables round or flat casing). Ive had to use drop as ethernet due to being burried. Cat5 etc arent durable enuf to burry normally.


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## Schmuckley (Apr 4, 2015)

Try checking into some satellite internet or something.


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## Aquinus (Apr 5, 2015)

Schmuckley said:


> Try checking into some satellite internet or something.


Latency is unacceptable for first person shooters. First post says that he wants to be able to play games on it.


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## Schmuckley (Apr 5, 2015)

Why does EU get like 40/20 for $40 a mo and US people get screwed?


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## Nordic (Apr 5, 2015)

Schmuckley said:


> Try checking into some satellite internet or something.





Schmuckley said:


> Why does EU get like 40/20 for $40 a mo and US people get screwed?



On top of what Aquinas said, he also already made a decision on which internet speed.

I would guess Europe has better funding for infrastructure. Better internet infrastructure means cheaper better internet. The trick is how do we pay for it.

The op is also only 5 or so miles from good fast internet. It is where he decided to live that makes it so expensive.


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## Winston_008 (Apr 5, 2015)

This might be a silly question, but were there better speeds for the capped plans or is that more a matter of infrastructure?


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## RCoon (Apr 5, 2015)

Schmuckley said:


> Why does EU get like 40/20 for $40 a mo and US people get screwed?



Because Americas Congress is lobbied by the ISP's to stop them from doing anything about the refusal for unbundling of cable etc. They're just companies that own cables, charge money for it, and instead of putting that money back into the system and upgrading the lines, it goes straight into pockets. Luckily in the EU the governments aren't as corrupt (they still get lobbied), so ISP's don't have th  power to charge stupid amounts without being shit on from on high by an investigation body and charged millions for abusing market position.

That should change for the US though, title II was passed a short while ago, and all the big names cried and screamed about it. You know that when something causes a multimillion dollar company to throw it's toys out the pram, it means something good is being done for once.

UK isn't immune of course, our prime minister has a best friend who owns an ISP, that friend mysteriously was the creator of an Internet filtering system, which was then conveniently used to put a blanket filter on the entire Internet for the UK to block porn. Unfortunately it didn't work very well, blocked sex ed sites and all that. The government just cries blind "for the children!" and hopes nobody will hate on them for being lobbied in such an embarrassing manner.

At the current rate of infrastructure improvement, mobile Internet is going to overtake WAN is a couple of years, 4G is already faster than some people's Internet in rural spots around here.


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## Cvrk (Apr 5, 2015)

Off topic:
This will not help with the issues at hand , i'm just expressing my thoughts.
I live in a poor country,but i have 1GBps at 15,7 USA $ / month. Installation cost zero. Maintenance cost 1,42$ / month. Optional you can get for another 1$ the WiFi gear, if you don't have a wireless router already with gigabit support in your home. All this with Fiber optics in your house. They call it FTTH technology.
I just upgraded to 200MBps for 10$/month . Sure you need a SSD & an i7 CPU for the 1GBps ,witch i don't have.


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## Aquinus (Apr 5, 2015)

Cvrk said:


> I just upgraded to 200MBps for 10$/month . Sure you need a SSD & an i7 CPU for the 1GBps ,witch i don't have.


I have a skt478 system in my attic with a 2.4Ghz Northwood Celeron that has a 1Gbps ethernet port. In fact I used the SATA 1.5Gbps to transfer files over 1Gbps, and believe it or not, it can saturate it. 


Cvrk said:


> I live in a poor country,but i have 1GBps at 15,7 USA $ / month. Installation cost zero. Maintenance cost 1,42$ / month. Optional you can get for another 1$ the WiFi gear, if you don't have a wireless router already with gigabit support in your home. All this with Fiber optics in your house. They call it FTTH technology.


Laws my friend, laws. ISPs in the US of A are greedy and make a killing off internet service.  With respect to the op, he lives very far away from any real internet solution. He had to have service *installed* there is no fiber out where he is.


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## Cvrk (Apr 5, 2015)

Aquinus said:


> he lives very far away from any real internet solution. He had to have service *installed* there is no fiber out where he is.


At least hes not bothered by the neighbors . I got fast net but in this crowded city there is insanity and noise everywhere. We should start a poll: fast net crazy living spaces / very slow net relax living


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## Aquinus (Apr 5, 2015)

Cvrk said:


> At least hes not bothered by the neighbors . I got fast net but in this crowded city there is insanity and noise everywhere. We should start a poll: fast net crazy living spaces / very slow net relax living


I live in a "city" but that's only by name. It's not like Concord has high rises or anything but, it is the state capitol. I pay something like 80USD/mo for this.


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## erocker (Apr 5, 2015)

Schmuckley said:


> Why does EU get like 40/20 for $40 a mo and US people get screwed?


The US is a conglomeration of 50 states. Things very from state to state. It's like 50 little countries with one big country that leeches off of them. Where I live I pay $55 for a 75/15 connection.


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## Easy Rhino (Apr 5, 2015)

erocker said:


> The US is a conglomeration of 50 states. Things very from state to state. It's like 50 little countries with one big country that leeches off of them. Where I live I pay $55 for a 75/15 connection.



Yup. The US is a massive country. It has a massive infrastructure that provides state of the art data backbones for the entire world. The idea that the US is somehow behind is a myth.


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## Aquinus (Apr 5, 2015)

Easy Rhino said:


> Yup. The US is a massive country. It has a massive infrastructure that provides state of the art data backbones for the entire world. The idea that the US is somehow behind is a myth.


Exactly. Most internet traffic at some point or another has to travel into or at least through the US. The problem is we as consumers don't see anything near what tier 1 networks have to offer.


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## DanishDevil (May 2, 2015)

eidairaman1 said:


> 200 ft trench? Burried! If youre going to have wire burried either encap it in pvc or use drop wire (2-5 pair cables round or flat casing). Ive had to use drop as ethernet due to being burried. Cat5 etc arent durable enuf to burry normally.



It's in 2" electrical conduit. Thanks for lookin' out though!



Schmuckley said:


> Try checking into some satellite internet or something.



Latency, as Aquinus said:



Aquinus said:


> Latency is unacceptable for first person shooters. First post says that he wants to be able to play games on it.





Schmuckley said:


> Why does EU get like 40/20 for $40 a mo and US people get screwed?



As james888 said, it was my choice of lot that made ISP availability difficult. This is more farm country about a mile out from fiber for days. It's all 5 acre lots with mostly retirement-aged people living here, therefore very little demand for fast internet, and very few customers reached per mile of fiber laid vs. all the subdivisions just a few minutes away. It makes sense that they would choose this area absolute last or not at all to lay fiber.



james888 said:


> On top of what Aquinas said, he also already made a decision on which internet speed.
> 
> I would guess Europe has better funding for infrastructure. Better internet infrastructure means cheaper better internet. The trick is how do we pay for it.
> 
> The op is also only 5 or so miles from good fast internet. It is where he decided to live that makes it so expensive.





Winston_008 said:


> This might be a silly question, but were there better speeds for the capped plans or is that more a matter of infrastructure?



No capped plans available here. Every ISP I called (other than satellite which I was not considering) was a business or enterprise plan. Residential looked up my address and said they couldn't service me and that was that. Business and enterprise plans typically don't come with data caps.



RCoon said:


> Because Americas Congress is lobbied by the ISP's to stop them from doing anything about the refusal for unbundling of cable etc. They're just companies that own cables, charge money for it, and instead of putting that money back into the system and upgrading the lines, it goes straight into pockets. Luckily in the EU the governments aren't as corrupt (they still get lobbied), so ISP's don't have th  power to charge stupid amounts without being shit on from on high by an investigation body and charged millions for abusing market position.
> 
> That should change for the US though, title II was passed a short while ago, and all the big names cried and screamed about it. You know that when something causes a multimillion dollar company to throw it's toys out the pram, it means something good is being done for once.
> 
> ...



My 4G is wicked fast compared to my home internet except for ping values. Then again, I've got a data cap on that so it's really of no use for me when I have a large file or high-res video that I want to watch. I think the political climate for ISPs is going to change, but our win for open internet is only a start. It will take something like Google Fiber being available in many more places or more local cities/counties offering their own ISPs to really change much of my unique situation.



Cvrk said:


> Off topic:
> This will not help with the issues at hand , i'm just expressing my thoughts.
> I live in a poor country,but i have 1GBps at 15,7 USA $ / month. Installation cost zero. Maintenance cost 1,42$ / month. Optional you can get for another 1$ the WiFi gear, if you don't have a wireless router already with gigabit support in your home. All this with Fiber optics in your house. They call it FTTH technology.
> I just upgraded to 200MBps for 10$/month . Sure you need a SSD & an i7 CPU for the 1GBps ,witch i don't have.





Aquinus said:


> I have a skt478 system in my attic with a 2.4Ghz Northwood Celeron that has a 1Gbps ethernet port. In fact I used the SATA 1.5Gbps to transfer files over 1Gbps, and believe it or not, it can saturate it.
> 
> Laws my friend, laws. ISPs in the US of A are greedy and make a killing off internet service.  With respect to the op, he lives very far away from any real internet solution. He had to have service *installed* there is no fiber out where he is.





Cvrk said:


> At least hes not bothered by the neighbors . I got fast net but in this crowded city there is insanity and noise everywhere. We should start a poll: fast net crazy living spaces / very slow net relax living



I was in the house alone for the first time when my wife went off to help her mother with some errands, and I have to tell you it was awkwardly quiet in this house. The most noise we get it from the 50 or so canadian geese running around with their young goslings. Oh and the 100 or so other exotic birds that our next door neighbors keep (read: about 500ft away and they're the closest, so we really only hear the peacocks and one other type of bird that sounds like a cackling hyena a few times a day).

After living here for 4 weeks, I think I'd pick very slow net relax living 



Aquinus said:


> I live in a "city" but that's only by name. It's not like Concord has high rises or anything but, it is the state capitol. I pay something like 80USD/mo for this.





erocker said:


> The US is a conglomeration of 50 states. Things very from state to state. It's like 50 little countries with one big country that leeches off of them. Where I live I pay $55 for a 75/15 connection.





Easy Rhino said:


> Yup. The US is a massive country. It has a massive infrastructure that provides state of the art data backbones for the entire world. The idea that the US is somehow behind is a myth.





Aquinus said:


> Exactly. Most internet traffic at some point or another has to travel into or at least through the US. The problem is we as consumers don't see anything near what tier 1 networks have to offer.



*Thanks all for your discussion, stay tuned for my first month impressions! This has been an interesting transition to say the least!*


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