# Windows Vs others.. serious debate.



## Dippyskoodlez (Sep 17, 2006)

Ok.. first question I cant seem to answer: What has windows _*not*_ stolen and poorly implemented?

Sitting here on vista, the obvious few: Start button search.. doesn't even work fully yet... one of the simplest things too!

Gadgets. Seen the dashboard? nuff said.

Flip 3d. Expose on os x is so much better.. you dont have to hold windows+tab to keep it open, expose will stay open until you click... and gives you window labels..

Perhaps a better question: What has windows stolen that was implemented *effectivly*?


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## stealthfighter (Sep 17, 2006)

Well, my uncle put windows on my pc with a real winxp disc but I think he stole the key (keygen)... but hey, it passed the winxp authenticity thingy...

Also about windows vs any other I personally like windows cause I was raised on windows 98and, through tweaking XP, I've got it to take just about 78mb memory at atartup and I can further beat that down by terminateing one of window media player's dumbass services and get like 12 services running. No antivirus, but I don't need that, heh


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## randomperson21 (Sep 17, 2006)

oh geez. thats a hard one.

the start menu? i seem to recall way back in the day that apple actually created the origional "start" menu, which was than promptly copied by microsoft.

but i think thats pretty much it.
I like apple's ads "Redmond, start your photocopiers"


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## Steevo (Sep 17, 2006)

Stolen, like they took it by forece, broke in and stole it?


Or like one guy playing a song by someone else, so he stole that.


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## stealthfighter (Sep 17, 2006)

I like the win xp start menu
Far superior to the win 98 start menu


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## randomperson21 (Sep 17, 2006)

i can't stand the start menu in general. the dock is the way to go. much more intuitive.

actually, i find osx as a whole much better than windows. problem is, i have no money, therefore i can't get a mac. 

but if apple were to release osx as a standalone os not tied to hardware, and still be able to magically support it and have it run as stable as it does on macs, i'd buy it. but thats hard to do: part of the mac's stability comes from the hardware platform.


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## devinXkillyou (Sep 17, 2006)

Widgets were created by a couple of dudes, originally called Konfabulator, which was released for OS X, and shortly later for Windows. I quote from Wikipedia:
"Originally released on February 10, 2003 as a Mac OS X only application which cost US$24.95 (and later, with the release of version 2.0, US$19.95), its Windows version was released on November 8, 2004 with the release of version Konfabulator 1.8, and made freeware with the release of Konfabulator 2.1 on July 25, 2005, when it was sold to Yahoo!. Shortly prior to this, Apple released a similar widget engine, Dashboard, as part of its Mac OS X Tiger operating system."

Widgets _were_ originally for mac, but Apple stole the idea and turned it into their own "Dashboard". thats part of the industry: taking ideas you like/think will be successful and going with it. the problem is, microsoft has tried to do this but haven't been as successful as its counterpart.


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## Deleted member 3 (Sep 17, 2006)

How could you have a serious debate when the startpost is already a flame towards Microsoft? I bet this thread will have to be closed really fast due to it being plain flaming.


The one thing Windows is supreme in s user friendlyness, no other OS is as easy to use. (MacOS is A: very limited for users, B: another platform)

Also, I would say driversupport in Windows is quite good compared to other OSes, I can make a very long list of hardware that doesn't work fully under Linux or whatever random OS you pick.

As for Vista, noticed that it's still in beta? 



Anyway, I'm not feeding this flamewar anymore.


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## randomperson21 (Sep 17, 2006)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> As for Vista, noticed that it's still in beta?




for like the last 5 years.


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## SeeK (Sep 17, 2006)

I prefer Mac OS, simply because it seems to be more stable. And it looks good. 

Alas, I'm stuck with Vista for the next five years or so, since I want to play DX10 games. Gah.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Sep 17, 2006)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> The one thing Windows is supreme in s user friendlyness, no other OS is as easy to use. (MacOS is A: very limited for users, B: another platform)
> 
> Also, I would say driversupport in Windows is quite good compared to other OSes, I can make a very long list of hardware that doesn't work fully under Linux or whatever random OS you pick.
> 
> ...




I was hoping someone could provide some arguable points, but noone has provided anything othe rthan "omg i like start menuzz"

As for user friendlyness, _users_ are dumb. They don't know how to use windows, they don't know how to use OS X.

They know how to _get by_ in windows.. nothing more, nothing less.


Hardware support for linux- well, companys make drivers for their product. They make a windows driver. Its not linux's fault   Although a LOT more companies are making linux drivers now!

Yeah, vista is still in beta, but that doesn't mean their poorly copied features are of any use...


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## trog100 (Sep 17, 2006)

i will stick with xp for quite some time.. i stuck with 98 for much the same reasons.. lack of driver support and lazyness on my part.. 

course after xxx time the position reverses and driver suport for the old operating system starts to dissapear..

i recon a proccess of continuos improvements is better than a whole new shebang every five years.. 

a new improved xp i might be interested in.. but vista.. nope..

to me an operating system is just something that lets me run other programes.. a shell in essence.. to MS its the be all and end all.. i dont use many of xps features and certainly dont need more..

trog


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## Deleted member 3 (Sep 17, 2006)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> I was hoping someone could provide some arguable points, but noone has provided anything othe rthan "omg i like start menuzz"
> 
> As for user friendlyness, _users_ are dumb. They don't know how to use windows, they don't know how to use OS X.
> 
> ...




So userfriendlyness isn't an argument because users are dumb and driversupport isn't because that's out of the OS's hand? Sure, a LOT of companies make drivers for Linux, care to compare it to Windows though? 

As for that last comment, well doh, that's exactly my point. It's Beta, if you expect everything to work, don't use a Beta. Wait for the full product before you complain.

If you really can't find a reason why you should be using Windows, don't use it. If you find yourself installing Windows again after trying other OSes that will be the argument you need.


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## b1lk1 (Sep 17, 2006)

Which Vista Beta you running?  I have RC1 installed and so far, it is the best and most stable one I have tried.  My only issue is the ram usage @ about 400MB on the desktop.  But I do have to say it does run better and faster than XP, and I have yet to come accross a game that doesn't run better under Vista than XP.  

As for them stealing features, I hardly expect you of all people to try and start a flame war.  Of course they take their cues from other OS's.  Take what works and implement it in your product.  That is the American way.  Noone forced you to run Vista and noone forced you to run Linux.  Noone forces us to buy Macs and noone forces ups to choose any brand. 

Sometimes I just have to shake my head at the threads I see here.  There seems to be a pervasive use of personal opinions instead of the use of rational arguements/facts.  This thread really forced me to dumb down to understand why it was even posted.


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## zekrahminator (Sep 17, 2006)

*Hasn't paid attention to any of the other posts other then the first one * Personally, I would be running all Macs if they had more universal game and hardware support.
Edit- Oh yeah I forgot that Mac OSX is limited...nevermind . If Mac had the stability, shinyness, and efficiency that it has, combined with the modability of Windows, you'd have a solid operating system. Wait a minute, isn't that what linux is supposed to be? .


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## Dippyskoodlez (Sep 17, 2006)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> So userfriendlyness isn't an argument because users are dumb





Take a look at vista? i'll give you a list of 10 things to find and tell me how "userfriendly" it is.


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## XooM (Sep 17, 2006)

Windows XP is above and afar the best operating system I've ever used. Everything runs on it, its easy to use, its light on resources, stable, the list goes on. You probably think I'm being sarcastic with all of this, but i'm really not. There is precious little i want to do that i can't do in windows XP (usually linux and open-source related things); for those, there is either cygwin or VMWare. XP is easy to trim fat off of and can be extremely resource-friendly if you get off your arse and make it so. Drivers are copious, software is copious... everything runs on windows. uptime isn't the slightest problem; if i so wished, i could leave it running indefinitely. Lots of people wet themselves over the whole "omg macos is so much more secure than windoze!" thing, but that comes down to A) market share and B) retardedness of users. I've been a windows user all my life and ran XP Home SP1a up to around a month ago with no patches newer than around 2003 and no antivirus without the slightest hitch in security.

No, I'm not a windows fanboy. I have no qualms about running a smoothwall router, no tears over running linux-based servers... after all, thats what they're superior for.

Ease-of-use in winXP is so exceedingly superior to every other OS that any "downside" to the operating system is entirely "worth it".


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## Steevo (Sep 17, 2006)

Who attacks mac's anyway? I mean, really? It is like making fun of the retarded kid that sits on the bus and touches himself or eats his boogers. Making fun on Winders is like making fun of the guy who has a trophy wife in his import while you are in your jammies in the mini-van.

Just not smart.


Security is how aware users are and common sense. 

I haven't met many Mac fanboys that aren't multi-platform users though . How are those games treating ya?


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## Deleted member 3 (Sep 17, 2006)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> Take a look at vista? i'll give you a list of 10 things to find and tell me how "userfriendly" it is.



Vista is a Beta product, the current version of Windows is Windows XP and its serverpart 2003. Compare those, we're not talking about Linux kernel 4.0 already either are we? Seriously, Linux 4.0 lacks even more, everything.


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## Frick (Sep 17, 2006)

@Vista : I think it was x800_professor here at TPU who said that Vista RC1 is almost TOO user-friendly. You know, a horrible dog that holds your hand in case you click somewhere and tells you that everything is going to be alright. But that might not equal a "really" user-friendly OS.. Sounds disturbing though.

@ Windows : The only thing I do with my computer is to play games, write and watch movies. And I can do that very easily and get away with it for a *low* cost. PC's aren't nearly as exenspive as a Mac is. Plus all the things Dan said. I can plug in anything and a window pops up and tells me what to do, and it often works. Plug 'n Pray should really be known as Plug 'n Play. Sure, there are problems, but they don't occur *that* often unless it's something wrong with the hardware.

And there are several good ways to modify Windows XP after your like.

@ Linux : I love the idea of Linux. I REALLY do. But the thing is I don't know a single thing about it. I tried the Ubuntu 6.06LTS Live-CD and got a "GUI Fail!" (or something) error messege when everything was loaded, and all I saw was a line that said "ubuntu:" (or something).  That's easy to deal with when I don't know a single command.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Sep 17, 2006)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> Vista is a Beta product, the current version of Windows is Windows XP and its serverpart 2003. Compare those, we're not talking about Linux kernel 4.0 already either are we? Seriously, Linux 4.0 lacks even more, everything.



I'll compare OS X leopard to Vista if you would prefer.

$5 says leopard comes out without a scratch.


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## Thermopylae_480 (Sep 18, 2006)

I bet it does too, since it's been released and out for years, and Vista is still in beta.  Complete, released, tested software Vs. Incomplete, Unreleased, beta tested software.  Hmm...  Yup, OSX wins.  Here's a novel idea, lets wait 'till the full release of Vista before we proclaim it a lame duck.  Let's be serious now, how can you honestly expect Mircrosoft, or any other corporation for that matter, to come out with a wholey original peice of software, without good ideas borrowed from other areas?  I mean seriously.  Can you think of any completely original Ideas for an OS based on CURRENT AND IMPLEMENTABLE technology?  Now remember your task is to create a successful OS with absolutely no ideas borrowed from any other program.  I think that's an absurd thing to expect.  Maybe you guys just want them to put XP in a new box?  I say good for Mircrosoft for trying to implement the things everyone likes about operating systems in one OS.  All operating systems, and most things in general, are more about innovation rather than invention.  You take the best of the past, and build on it to try to make it a little better.  Sometimes you can add a little something new in to help the process.  Then a little down, the road after a few steps, something completely new is formed.  Have you gone back to tried and use Windows 3.x?  Then Windows 95, 98, 2000, and XP?  How about the Mac OS?  Notice how none are completely original, they always just build on each other, and borrow from other programs.  So just get over it.  Vista isn't wholey different from XP or OSX, it's the bastard child of both, but who cares.  There is a huge difference between Vista, and Windows 3.x though.  See how it works?


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## xman2007 (Sep 18, 2006)

Frick said:


> @ Linux : I love the idea of Linux. I REALLY do. But the thing is I don't know a single thing about it. I tried the Ubuntu 6.06LTS Live-CD and got a "GUI Fail!" (or something) error messege when everything was loaded, and all I saw was a line that said "ubuntu:" (or something).  That's easy to deal with when I don't know a single command.




i know exactly what you mean, i really want to ditch m$ and run linux, only trouble being because i got into computers so late IE after dos and windows 3.* etc etc i have no idea about command based os and tbh i have no desire to learn, yes i want somthing else apart from m$ cause i know its out there but theres no use in an old dog learning new tricks it isnt going to happen im afraid  i actually have ubuntu installed on a seperate partition (done it myself  lol and allocated a seperate 2gb swap partition) but i dont bloody know how to even install my modem driver (any help pm me  ) so there we go, if i cant get that far, theres no way in hell im gonna ditch my beloved windows xp installation with all my lovely games and programs and stuff lol and easy 1 click drivers for the aforementioned. linux is a good idea and ideal for all you veterans who have been tinkering since the days of old but alas i fear as powerful and as stable ( as long as configured correctly) linux is that it will only be the choice of hardcore techies and command wizkids and servers (which i hear its very good for)
and even now linux is moving more towards a m$/osx graphical look because the old language of dos is dying, and by that i mean its not being learnt anymore accept by programmers etc etc


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## Thermopylae_480 (Sep 18, 2006)

Go to the Linux forum, it's right above this one, people will help you with that there   .


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## Dippyskoodlez (Sep 18, 2006)

Thermopylae_480 said:


> I bet it does too, since it's been released and out for years, and Vista is still in beta.  Complete, released, tested software Vs. Incomplete, Unreleased, beta tested software.



Yep that leaked leopard apple was showing off a few weeks ago has been out for years. SUre has!  Learn your codenames before you insult someones arguement.


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## Thermopylae_480 (Sep 18, 2006)

Oops.    Apologies all around.  Most still holds true though.  I think I just filled Tiger in in my mind.  You know how it goes.

So, does Leopard borrow any ideas from Windows?


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## Dippyskoodlez (Sep 18, 2006)

Thermopylae_480 said:


> Oops.    Apologies all around.  Most still holds true though.  I think I just filled Tiger in in my mind.  You know how it goes.
> 
> So, does Leopard borrow any ideas from Windows?



how would it? Windows has never implemented any ideas that os x _could_ steal...


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## Deleted member 3 (Sep 19, 2006)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> how would it? Windows has never implemented any ideas that os x _could_ steal...



Besides the ability to actually change things in the OS, a second mouse button, hardware support, a load of networking services like RIS and AD and most of all; good marketing. 


So seriously, do you have anything else to complain about considering Windows? You seem to enjoy it.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Sep 19, 2006)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> Besides the ability to actually change things in the OS, a second mouse button, hardware support, a load of networking services like RIS and AD and most of all; good marketing.
> 
> 
> So seriously, do you have anything else to complain about considering Windows? You seem to enjoy it.



Xerox PARC Created the multi button mouse (originally 3, then reduced to 2 buttons). This was before windows was even in 3.11 stages. Apple already had a GUI.

Got anything else someone invented?


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## Deleted member 3 (Sep 19, 2006)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> Xerox PARC Created the multi button mouse (originally 3, then reduced to 2 buttons). This was before windows was even in 3.11 stages. Apple already had a GUI.
> 
> Got anything else someone invented?



http://imrl.usu.edu/OSLO/technology_writing/004_003.htm
(in fact a GUI was created for the first mouse in '63)

Apple didn't invent the GUI either. Have anything else Apple didn't invent?


This was my last reply to this thread btw unless it turns out to be something constructive.


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## Solaris17 (Sep 19, 2006)

thats right dan Apple dod NOT creat the first gui if i remember correctly that was xerox with a new copy machine way back in the day.


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## Thermopylae_480 (Sep 19, 2006)

Everyone can complain, flat out lie, be bitter, and say that Windows has no redeeming qualities what so ever.  That it's a global conspiracy by Microsoft to use it's monetary power to suppress development by software manufactures on the other two mainstream OS.  But it's just not really true is it?  Windows has gotten us where we are today, it provided a compatible platform unified OS, to propel us into this current age.  We wouldn't be nearly as far along today if we had had several OS based on different code being just as popular, with programers struggling to get the two to comunicate and the idiots not being able to figure out that you can't run  this program on that computer, because something they can't understand is different.  Maybe Apple should have won in the begining, and Windows should have been relegated to tier 2, but it didn't.  Bill was the better/more ruthless, or however you want to put it, buisness man.  If OSX was the most popular today I bet everyone would be complaining about how it was a rip off of Windows.

Basically, everyone hates Windows/Microsoft because it was mean, it made you cry.  It beat up Apple and stole some ideas to make itself better.  It's not 100% stable.  It has some security vulnerablities, A) Because people are idiots and don't know how to protect themselves, B) It's the most visilble and widely used OS in the world, so that makes it a bigger target, and easier to take down.   It's not as customizable as Linux, but you can't make it as customizable, because then it would become a fraud, and an Linux rip-off  .  Everyone hates it because it is the biggest and most popular, and that makes you mad, because it hurts the little guy, and in our culture you always fight for the little guy.  Don't worry though, you don't have to like Windows, you just have to recognize that it has some value.

Lol, in this day and age, it's taboo to say Windows is good.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Sep 19, 2006)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> http://imrl.usu.edu/OSLO/technology_writing/004_003.htm
> (in fact a GUI was created for the first mouse in '63)
> 
> Apple didn't invent the GUI either. Have anything else Apple didn't invent?
> ...



I never said apple invented the gui, i said they already had a GUI when windows was starting to get one.


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## Steevo (Sep 19, 2006)

So what did they steal that apple han't already stolen?


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## Dippyskoodlez (Sep 19, 2006)

Steevo said:


> So what did they steal that apple han't already stolen?



The dashboard? Exposé?


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## Scheich (Sep 19, 2006)

Memory management. Add 1000 GB of ram and it will run of out memory* no matter what. Why is that ? From a good OS i demand good memory management without leaks, or at least with tight restrictions to the programs that are using the memory pool.

They introduced a new 3d Accel simply to get rid of the competition. Opengl was there and even faster than dx, but market dominance was more important. Now they are using Vista with a different dx to simply destroy any attempts from open source programmer to follow up with projects like wine.

The Os itself. Take away all the useless crap and see whats left. An Os with 100-500 mb with no special features, except a hardwaremanager. As mainboards are becoming more and more integrated this feature is obsolete soon.

So what exactly is our gain with windows ? Having to pay for it with no alternative ? For a simple OS that might fit onto a rom, if it where not from MS ??

Come on.. Atari did it, Amiga too. It didnt feel like i needed a better OS  


I tried Linux Suse 10.1 with latest Ati driver and.. it sucks. Theres so much determination required, a normal user simply cant afford that. If Ati & Nvidia would provide open source drivers i bet they would be part of a simple installation dvd, but they cant. The Money MS
is paying them to stay with their own proprietary drivers is just too good. These unstable drivers might never be part of an installation dvd, maybe with MS, but not with linux.

So what do you actually want to compare ? Theres no competition. At least not for the average gamer.

And yes of course i like to complain. There are only tiny little improvements, defects like the memory management still remains persistent trough all win version. It should be a simple task for a 5000+ MS dev team to fix it, but wait.. theres no competition, why hurry ? Is there a problem.. nah.

Trough the years i have installed windooze often, maybe a 100 times.
I got pain resistance over this    I am feeling abused as a beta tester.
Maybe thats why i dont welcome MS as much as newcomers do.


Just to prevent you are getting the wrong idea. Linux works perfectly, but the drivers for Ati & Nvidia must be installed by yourself and thats a tough ride.

*using the harddisk 100% instead of ram is not the way its meant to be used


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## Dippyskoodlez (Sep 20, 2006)

Scheich said:


> *using the harddisk 100% instead of ram is not the way its meant to be used



When we shift to solid state, we'll all be seeing massive lifespan differences when comparing os x, linux and windows..


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## strick94u (Sep 20, 2006)

Windows heh 
yes if you want to do anything you must know windows but learn the other systems to linux is free or cheap and you can pickup a decent older Imac for 100 or so just to learn these systems its not a sin and Bill Gates wont come after you. unless he finds out you stole the same stuff he stole from him :shadedshu


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## Steevo (Sep 20, 2006)

Scheich said:


> Memory management. Add 1000 GB of ram and it will run of out memory* no matter what. Why is that ? From a good OS i demand good memory management without leaks, or at least with tight restrictions to the programs that are using the memory pool.
> 
> They introduced a new 3d Accel simply to get rid of the competition. Opengl was there and even faster than dx, but market dominance was more important. Now they are using Vista with a different dx to simply destroy any attempts from open source programmer to follow up with projects like wine.
> 
> ...



Memory mangement, ehh? So free memory is the key, regardless of what it does to performance? 

Memory leaks? Do you know what a leak is? It is un-recoverable memory a DRIVER OR PROGRAM does not release to the OS upon exit or termination. 

If I restart my system now and check the free memory I will have around 640MB free, with all the extra crap that I have running, and that is fine. But if I check before the reboot (37 days up time) I still have....... 640MB if I take away what firefox uses. 


And so far as business, isn't the idea of a business to make money? Who the heck are you to tell anyone what they can have. And who the heck is anyone to tell you?


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## Dippyskoodlez (Sep 20, 2006)

Steevo said:


> If I restart my system now and check the free memory I will have around 640MB free, with all the extra crap that I have running, and that is fine. But if I check before the reboot (37 days up time) I still have....... 640MB if I take away what firefox uses.


Its not solely the programs responsability to reclaim unused memory resources. You act as if there has never been memory leaks in windows xp


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## XooM (Sep 20, 2006)

heres a 2 word phrase to remember: "garbage collection"

Windows has the absurd market share it has for a reason. if mac and linux can't compete, it's nobody's fault but their own. product quality is irrelevant.


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## strick94u (Sep 20, 2006)

Reason mac cant compete is that they just started to advertise after what 20 years? Linux is just another open sorce like gnu and comes in many flavors. So why windows? why is it on top?
easy Microsoft aimed at the home for the pc not Graphic artist and News papers like mac did 
or Programers Like linux did. And we can all be thankful to Microsoft for driving the price of computers down. If your on a badass pc right now the only reason it did not cost 5,000 dollars is that silicone is cheap becuase Bill Gates had the foresight to put the Computer in the house. Again try out the other systems they are great also and have a place but Microsoft won that war way back..........................


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## Thermopylae_480 (Sep 20, 2006)

> The Money MS
> is paying them to stay with their own proprietary drivers is just too good. These unstable drivers might never be part of an installation dvd, maybe with MS, but not with linux.



Can you prove this?


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## Solaris17 (Sep 20, 2006)

Scheich said:


> Memory management. Add 1000 GB of ram and it will run of out memory* no matter what. Why is that ? From a good OS i demand good memory management without leaks, or at least with tight restrictions to the programs that are using the memory pool.
> 
> They introduced a new 3d Accel simply to get rid of the competition. Opengl was there and even faster than dx, but market dominance was more important. Now they are using Vista with a different dx to simply destroy any attempts from open source programmer to follow up with projects like wine.
> 
> ...




i love suse 10.1 best linux iv ever used i actually thought it was extremely easy it accepted everything the min i started it. i never got the ati drivers to work though that pissed me off. if i could have gotten them to work then i would have been able to play the linux supported games like UT never winter nights. farcry etc. all of those iv seen being played on linux. but i agree i realy do wish ati and nvidia would develope the drivers more maybe so it worked everytime you installed it instead of going through a complicated process only to get 5 fps in the open gears theing.


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## AsphyxiA (Sep 20, 2006)

Windows, OSX, Linux, it dosen't really matter which one you use as long as it does what you NEED it to do!  I have used all of these operating systems and I like them all!  Every piece has it's place. We can banter on and on about which OS is better, but the fact remains that all are good, there are non superior!  Sure, Windows has security flaws up the asshole, BUT, since this is a gaming forum, which OS is EVERYONE using to play those games?   If you say that you only use Linux or OSX then you are lying or you only play games that are only supported by these.  This means you must be very narrow minded and aren't open to playing anything that isn't ID software or UT (not that I do not love those games, Quake 3 is my favorite game
).  You guys are reading way to much into this.  You do what you need to, do it and have fun while you do it, end of story.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Sep 20, 2006)

AsphyxiA said:


> , BUT, since this is a gaming forum, which OS is EVERYONE using to play those games?   If you say that you only use Linux or OSX then you are lying or you only play games that are only supported by these.  This means you must be very narrow minded and aren't open to playing anything that isn't ID software or UT (not that I do not love those games, Quake 3 is my favorite game




You're obviously narrow minded about what software is available for os x and linux 

Theres just as many os x games as there are windows games... infact, 90% of all windows games are available for os x or linux or both...


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