# Unable to cool 9900KS  @5 Ghz on all cores without any limits



## Okys (Nov 22, 2019)

Hello guys.
Please help me understand what is wrong in my system or what I am doing wrong.
I recently bought some new hardware for my wifes PC:
ASUS Maximus XI Hero (just for Aura)
i9 9900KS
G.Skill F4-3600C16D-16GTZR
Thermaltake Water 3.0 ARGB Sync 360 AIO
A-Data XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB SSD
Old Gigabyte GTX970 (GV-N970G1 GAMING-4GD) videocard (saving money for something better later)
Everything is put inside a be quiet! Silent Base 801 (window) case and powered by Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium 750W power supply.
Radiator is installed on top of the case with fans in push configuration, pushing air from case through the radiator. In front I installed 3x Silent wings 2 (3pin) 140mm fans (those came with the case) as intake for fresh air.  On rear I put one 140mm Silent Wings 2 PWM fan as exhaust.
It's running Windows 10 Pro (1903) with all the latest drivers and 1302 BIOS.
So, at first, I set the XMP 2 profile in BIOS for RAM and left everything else untouched. Later, when I got a chance, I ran Cinebench 20 and noticed that PLL thing. It ran at 5 Ghz for some time, then dropped to around 4.7 Ghz at the end, to stay in the TDP of 127W.
I do not plan to overclock at all, but wanted all cores to run 5 Ghz all the time, when needed. I was reading 9900KS should be capable of that, so I went into bios, set it to disable any power limitations, set AVX offset to 0, kept voltage on auto and everything else on auto.
And here came the problem.. on a single cinebench 20 run, temperatures rocketed to 96 degrees C on some cores. If i remember right, voltage was around 1.33v. I didn't like that, so i thought, lets change the Thermaltakes pre-installed thermal paste to Thermal grizzly Kryonaut. It actually helped to reduce 2-3 degrees, but still i wasn't impressed... I was getting the score of around 5210-5225. Thats about the same, I found on the internet from another 9900KS (!!STOCK!!) reviews.
I also tried stress test from AIDA64, including GPU in it. CPU throttled after 8-10 seconds...
I then returned to BIOS, switched the voltage from Auto to Adaptive, with + sign.
Came back to windows, ran Cinebench, and wow. Temperatures dropped by around 5 degrees and also the score. Now, I was only getting like 5020-5040 score. With same TDP around 180 watts and same 5 Ghz clock (checked in HWMonitor).
At this point i decided I am an idiot, doing something wrong and came to google for help. It only made me feel even worse, after reading that some run 5.2ghz on air, some other easy does 5.2ghz, etc. How on earth is it possible, if i can't even run mine constantly on 5 Ghz?
I also tried these tests with open front, open cover... It almost doesnt matter at all... temperatures rocket to over 90 degrees anyway.
So my questions are:
How changing ONLY voltage from Auto to Adaptive+ was able to reduce temps by around 5 degrees and Cinebench score by 200?
What I am doing wrong and what could be wrong in my configuation? Or maybe nothing is wrong? I just want to run a stable, advertised 5Ghz on all cores, in any situation, while keeping the temps below 90 degrees. Is that even possible? I can consider installing radiator on front and fans in pull config, or even push-pull, but I tried with open case and  open front without good results, so I could end up in the same situation...

Sorry for my weird european english and thanks in advance!


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 22, 2019)

The TIM under the IHS plate is probably the issue  and has been for a long time with Intel chips. You'll find lots of reads with vastly improved temps replacing the TIM under the IHS plate.

The rest, pretty normal. It's throttling from 5ghz because it's just too hot. 

You could gain some Cinebench points with Ram tweaking and overclocking too btw. It's not all CPU that gives good scores.


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## FreedomEclipse (Nov 22, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> The TIM under the IHS plate is probably the issue  and has been for a long time with Intel chips. You'll find lots of reads with vastly improved temps replacing the TIM under the IHS plate.



its soldered on. Delidding a soldered CPU makes little to no difference. and when i say little i mean 1-2'c. plus the added risk you run of damaging your CPU when youre trying to scrape the solder off the CPU die with a razor blade or a craft knife is a lot lot higher.


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## R-T-B (Nov 22, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> The TIM under the IHS plate is probably the issue and has been for a long time with Intel chips.



This is a soldered chip.

There are always dud chips that still technically meet spec.  Mine is one.  My present 9900K (basically your chip) won't go an eyelash over 4.8 Ghz allcore.  It's still an awesome chip...  don't worry so much about the "even 5" number.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 22, 2019)

Thanks fellas. Was not aware it was soldered.


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## sneekypeet (Nov 22, 2019)

Any chance that the pump is running stupidly slow or not at all?


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 22, 2019)

FreedomEclipse said:


> its soldered on. Delidding a soldered CPU makes little to no difference. and when i say little i mean 1-2'c. plus the added risk you run of damaging your CPU when youre trying to scrape the solder off the CPU die with a razor blade or a craft knife is a lot lot higher.



Was on mobile on the last reply, so couldn't portray more on de-lidding....

Well aware of the ups and downs of de-lidding. Just wasn't aware the 9900KS is soldered.
For sure de-lidding soldered chips is for enthusiasts. I've done quite a few myself, but mostly AMD processors.

Not sure about the 1-2c claim. This really depends on a few factors such as re-using the IHS plate with LM (which should have worse temps) or using a lidless plate and direct cooler contact. 
I don't typically recommend de-lids on soldered processors, I'm sorry to the OP for that suggestion. I'll research more on which Intel chips are soldered and which are not so I don't make this mistake once again. Thank you for the correction.


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## Vario (Nov 22, 2019)

there aren't any real world gains to be made at 5 GHz vs 4.5 GHz, don't drive yourself crazy trying to achieve it.


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## lsevald (Nov 22, 2019)

The solder they use seems pretty bad, maybe the solder layer is too thick or something. Anyway, I'm running my 9900k naked, no IHS at all, and use liquid metal directly between the die and a nickel plated water block. Gained about 18°C better temps (full P95 AVX load, quick test before and after at the same OC'ed settings), posted about here. My process was a bit too risky, if I were do do it again, I probably would try this kit.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 22, 2019)

lsevald said:


> The solder they use seems pretty bad, maybe the solder layer is too thick or something. Anyway, I'm running my 9900k naked, no IHS at all, and use liquid metal directly between the die and a nickel plated water block. Gained about 18°C better temps (full P95 AVX load, quick test before and after at the same OC'ed settings), posted about here. My process was a bit too risky, if I were do do it again, I probably would try this kit.



Thats very nice results.
Been thinking to delid my 8700k, but it already benches at 5.4ghz on stock TIM. Still contemplating the worthyness while Ill be closer to 1.6v at 5.5ghz vs the 1.520v at 5.4ghz. Starts to become a hog.
Obviously Im not using this daily... Well I bench on it almost daily, but with sub ambient liquid cooling instead.


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## Agentbb007 (Nov 23, 2019)

I just ran Cinebench R20 on my 9900K running all core 4.9GHz.  Highest temperature was 87C on core 2, Vcore reported 1.225V during benchmark. Obviously with these temps my X62 fans and pump all run at 100%.  My CPU voltage is set to Adaptive Mode + Add Turbo Voltage=1.2 Offset Voltage=0.05.
I've attached some screenshots of my sensors during benchmark and UEFI voltage so you can compare with your setup.  I like what *sneekypeet *suggested, make sure your pump is working and everything is blasting to 100%.


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## bubbleawsome (Nov 23, 2019)

Everyone saying "don't focus on the 5Ghz" is out of their mind. The entire point of the chip is the 5Ghz all-core turbo. If his can't make it without throttling it's not getting it's rated speed, and should be warrantied.


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## Okys (Nov 23, 2019)

Thanks for many answers.



Agentbb007 said:


> I just ran Cinebench R20 on my 9900K running all core 4.9GHz.  Highest temperature was 87C on core 2, Vcore reported 1.225V during benchmark. Obviously with these temps my X62 fans and pump all run at 100%.  My CPU voltage is set to Adaptive Mode + Add Turbo Voltage=1.2 Offset Voltage=0.05.
> I've attached some screenshots of my sensors during benchmark and UEFI voltage so you can compare with your setup.  I like what *sneekypeet *suggested, make sure your pump is working and everything is blasting to 100%.



I will definately check the pump tomorrow. It has only 3 pins, btw. This is first time I'm ever using an AIO, because my wife wanted one so badly. Im happy with my Noctua NH-D15S, but she wanted the looks..
And seeing youre running the same bench at 87C, 188Watts on 9900K using Kraken X62, makes me think something is wrong for me...
I will be back tomorrow with more info on this.


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## FreedomEclipse (Nov 23, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Was on mobile on the last reply, so couldn't portray more on de-lidding....
> 
> Well aware of the ups and downs of de-lidding. Just wasn't aware the 9900KS is soldered.
> For sure de-lidding soldered chips is for enthusiasts. I've done quite a few myself, but mostly AMD processors.
> ...



Maybe the 1-2'c might of been a little exaggerated. but even a 4'c difference is a waste of time unless youre going for extreme OCs or bench runs with LN2. Still not worth the risk of deliding. I would check other things like if the cooler is making good contact or if the AIO might even be faulty.  We all know 9900Ks run hot at 5Ghz anyway.






:EDIT:

also if you want to read the article...


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## Okys (Nov 23, 2019)

bubbleawsome said:


> Everyone saying "don't focus on the 5Ghz" is out of their mind. The entire point of the chip is the 5Ghz all-core turbo. If his can't make it without throttling it's not getting it's rated speed, and should be warrantied.



I can finish Cinebench R20, several times in a row and it doesn't throttle. I just dont think temps should be that high using a 360mm AIO. Only thing that throttled almost immediately, was AIDA64 stress test with GPU included in the test.


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## TheMadDutchDude (Nov 23, 2019)

Running at 5G all the time is an overclock. It is meant to run at 4.8 after 27 seconds by default. Anything above that for an infinite amount of time IS and always WAS an overclock.


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## Okys (Nov 23, 2019)

FreedomEclipse said:


> I would check other things like if the cooler is making good contact or if the AIO might even be faulty.  We all know 9900Ks run hot at 5Ghz anyway.



On first try I installed the block using Thermaltakes thermal paste. After taking it off and examining, everything was kinda ok with contact. I then cleaned both surfaces, applied Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut and temps improved by 2-3 degrees.
How do I inspect a faulty AIO? I will check what I can about the pump, but not sure about everything else..



TheMadDutchDude said:


> Running at 5G all the time is an overclock. It is meant to run at 4.8 after 27 seconds by default. Anything above that for an infinite amount of time IS and always WAS an overclock.


I may agree on that, but seeing 9900K running at lower temps, more TDP and using 280mm AIO, makes me feel even worse for my "premium" purchase


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## FreedomEclipse (Nov 23, 2019)

Okys said:


> On first try I installed the block using Thermaltakes thermal paste. After taking it off and examining, everything was kinda ok with contact. I then cleaned both surfaces, applied Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut and temps improved by 2-3 degrees.
> How do I inspect a faulty AIO? I will check what I can about the pump, but not sure about everything else..
> 
> 
> I may agree on that, but seeing 9900K running at lower temps, more TDP and using 280mm AIO, makes me feel even worse for my "premium" purchase



Normally its pump noise but if thats working correctly. Its clearly working as youre not throttling or going into thermal shutdown.

On the other hand, your PC case....











Its a bit of a hotbox. The words 'silence' and 'performance' dont really go together in some cases unless you throw a lot of money at it. If you want a silent machine then it will come at the cost of performance. If you want Performance then that will come at the cost of silence - Both these can kind of be worked around if you throw money at custom water cooling but that is an expensive route.

Best thing you can really do is either get a new case or get fans that are static pressure orientated like Corsair MLs or SPs because they will pull more air into the case then normal airflow fans - even then this is more of a bandaid over a cut then addressing the actual problem.

Its either one or the other, a middleground is extremely rare but it falls down to how much noise you are willing to tolerate.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 23, 2019)

Okys said:


> On first try I installed the block using Thermaltakes thermal paste. After taking it off and examining, everything was kinda ok with contact. I then cleaned both surfaces, applied Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut and temps improved by 2-3 degrees.
> How do I inspect a faulty AIO? I will check what I can about the pump, but not sure about everything else..
> 
> 
> I may agree on that, but seeing 9900K running at lower temps, more TDP and using 280mm AIO, makes me feel even worse for my "premium" purchase




A lot of 280 AIO beat 360 AIO just look at the h115i platinum Vs the h150i pro.
I can't find any reviews on your specific model so it hard to say if its adequate or not. Most reviewers test on an open bench in a 20-22c room.

My guess is either your ambient is high or the pump in that specific aio is weak.

My vanilla 9900k is cooler at 5ghz than your chip ( h150i pro )  you should be able to run around 1.25V and achieve 5ghz on the KS model according to reviews.

5ghz all core score   Although comparing this system to system without identical specs is pointless.                               


Temps doing 3 back to back runs. 22C ambient Front mounted radiator fans fixed at 1500RPM. I keep my ambient under 23C year round though.


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## Okys (Nov 23, 2019)

Guys, I just checked the pump... So, its a 3-pin, i have connected it to the AIO Pump connector. In BIOS the "AIO pump speed" is reported as 1760-1778 RPM and the AIO pump control disabled at Q-Fan Control, so, in my understanding, if nothing controls the pump, it must be running at it's full speed, which is advertised as 3000 RPM.
I also tried DC Mode (for 3-pin connectors) and selected the low-mid-high (30-40-70) temp limits and added 100% percentage to every limit, just to check if something would change.
After entering BIOS again, the speed is still reported around 1778 RPM.
I am not sure where to check AIO pump speed in windows.

An update:
The same speed is reported on HWMonitor as Chassis #6 speed. And it doesn't increase while doing a benchmark., just staying at those 1778 RPM's... 



FreedomEclipse said:


> Normally its pump noise but if thats working correctly. Its clearly working as youre not throttling or going into thermal shutdown.
> 
> On the other hand, your PC case....
> 
> Its a bit of a hotbox.



I agree and was aware of that, but wife liked the case, especially the orange one...
That's why i took the front completely off, so, the 3x140mm fans could grab every possible cool air. I opened the side cover also, to check. There was a little to no change on the temps..



oxrufiioxo said:


> A lot of 280 AIO beat 360 AIO just look at the h115i platinum Vs the h150i pro.
> I can't find any reviews on your specific model so it hard to say if its adequate or not. Most reviewers test on an open bench in a 20-22c room.
> 
> My guess is either your ambient is high or the pump in that specific aio is weak.
> ...



The ambient temperature is around 25-26 degrees C. This Thermaltake Water 3.0 ARGB was quite good on reviews I was able to find before buying. I could have bought Corsair or Kraken, i think they are all similar Asetek. Wife choose this one.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 23, 2019)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Maybe the 1-2'c might of been a little exaggerated. but even a 4'c difference is a waste of time unless youre going for extreme OCs or bench runs with LN2. Still not worth the risk of deliding. I would check other things like if the cooler is making good contact or if the AIO might even be faulty.  We all know 9900Ks run hot at 5Ghz anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting read. Found benching points increases, lower temps and lower fan RPM. 
Very well noted at the very bottom of the article that this would be for enthusiasts for sure, looking to squuek that extra mhz.

Pretty cool. That's what I always look to do!!! Not until recently have I gotten an Intel Rig for benching, but I wanted to try my hand in 3D benches so needed an Intel rig to do so. I'm still on a very steep learning curve. But having fun is what I like to do most.

through the years, been mostly an AMD enthusiast. I've de-lidded quite a few soldered processors. It's rather easy as I've done quite a few and the risk is not as high as you'd think. There's always that chance of a mistake. I've de-lidded 20 and killed 2 in the process in the last 10 years or so.

Thank you for sharing that link. Very interesting to me!



Okys said:


> Guys, I just checked the pump... So, its a 3-pin, i have connected it to the AIO Pump connector. In BIOS the "AIO pump speed" is reported as 1760-1778 RPM and the AIO pump control disabled at Q-Fan Control, so, in my understanding, if nothing controls the pump, it must be running at it's full speed, which is advertised as 3000 RPM.
> I also tried DC Mode (for 3-pin connectors) and selected the low-mid-high (30-40-70) temp limits and added 100% percentage to every limit, just to check if something would change.
> After entering BIOS again, the speed is still reported around 1778 RPM.
> I am not sure where to check AIO pump speed in windows.
> ...



hit F6 in bios and see if you can manually set the pump speed.


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## FreedomEclipse (Nov 23, 2019)

You can use HWmonitor to monitor a lot of things.

Since the pump is 3-pin anyway it should always run at max rpm - my corsair H105 did exactly the same thing. What fans do you have on the front of the case??



ShrimpBrime said:


> through the years, been mostly an AMD enthusiast. I've de-lidded quite a few soldered processors. It's rather easy as I've done quite a few and the risk is not as high as you'd think. There's always that chance of a mistake. I've de-lidded 20 and killed 2 in the process in the last 10 years or so.



Not everyone is a dab hand like you friend. I have never delidded a CPU though i'll get around to it some day.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 23, 2019)

FreedomEclipse said:


> You can use HWmonitor to monitor a lot of things.
> 
> Since the pump is 3-pin anyway it should always run at max rpm - my corsair H105 did exactly the same thing. What fans do you have on the front of the case??
> 
> ...



Yes I often forget that. My experience also differs from other enthusiasts. Amd temp dropping is harder to come by than Intel for sure. Id kill to knock of 14c with a delid.... My average is only about 10c through a variety of processors. This is because some processors where low wattage and you could only tell the difference with high volt overclocking. Ive done some of that 2v FX on LN2. Its a real gas. 

If I could turn the average users into overclocking beasts, PC gaming and overclocking would thrive again.

Old tech is cheap. Practice and mod and have fun. Sheat, Phenom II and FX so cheap, Dry Ice pretty cheap... 
Ya. Youll need to overclock. Us older gents wont be around forever......


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## newtekie1 (Nov 23, 2019)

Okys said:


> Guys, I just checked the pump... So, its a 3-pin, i have connected it to the AIO Pump connector. In BIOS the "AIO pump speed" is reported as 1760-1778 RPM and the AIO pump control disabled at Q-Fan Control, so, in my understanding, if nothing controls the pump, it must be running at it's full speed, which is advertised as 3000 RPM.
> I also tried DC Mode (for 3-pin connectors) and selected the low-mid-high (30-40-70) temp limits and added 100% percentage to every limit, just to check if something would change.
> After entering BIOS again, the speed is still reported around 1778 RPM.
> I am not sure where to check AIO pump speed in windows.
> ...



It is probably reading the pump at half speed.  The pump on the Thermaltake Water 3.0 ARGB  is specced to run at 3600RPM, 1778 is pretty close to half of that.  Pumps read weird, sometimes they read as double speed, sometime at half speed.


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## Okys (Nov 23, 2019)

Anyways, I found why is my pump speed reported only half the speed. It's something related to dual pulse and motherboard can read only one, so you should double the reading.
Tomorrow i will start lowering the voltage manually. At the moment, I am on adaptive+, HWMonitor reports voltage up to 1.3-1.32v, i have lost 200 pts of Cinebench R20 benchmark, because of adaptive voltage. As soon as i set it to Auto, temps increase by 5 degrees and bench is back to 5210 pts.
I have never had worst experience with things that should be working straight out of the box...



FreedomEclipse said:


> What fans do you have on the front of the case??



Those that came with the case - Silent wings 2 (3pin) 140mm fans (non-pwm).


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 23, 2019)

Okys said:


> Anyways, I found why is my pump speed reported only half the speed. It's something related to dual pulse and motherboard can read only one, so you should double the reading.
> Tomorrow i will start lowering the voltage manually. At the moment, I am on adaptive+, HWMonitor reports voltage up to 1.3-1.32v, i have lost 200 pts of Cinebench R20 benchmark, because of adaptive voltage. As soon as i set it to Auto, temps increase by 5 degrees and bench is back to 5210 pts.
> I have never had worst experience with things that should be working straight out of the box...
> 
> ...




The 9900k is a challenge with the best cooling and a case with very good airflow..... Going into it you should have expected a challenge imo.


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## vMax65 (Nov 23, 2019)

One thing that a person has already pointed out is your case is certainly not helping. A good Mesh fronted case like the Fractal Design Meshifi series or the Cooler Master H500P Mesh type case will make a difference especially if you have the radiator in the top of the case extracting air with the front fans bringing in cool air.

As importantly the lowest stable vcore which takes time to get right especially with LLC and a drop the AVX Offset will drop temps. The 360mm AIO should be more than up to the job so I would just take time on working the best vcore and a better case will help.


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## FreedomEclipse (Nov 23, 2019)

the way i see it - you need more airflow. add a 3rd fan to the front. Even better if you get static pressure fans like corsair ML's that move a tonne of air and replace the 3 front fans with them. I run all corsair ML fans on my setup and at their lowest rpm i cant hear them.

SInce you have a 360mm AIO and a 120 or 140mm at the back. your system is being starved of cool air being moved into the case. The more fans you can use to pull cooler air from the outside and have it exhausted out of your case the better..... But of course that comes at the cost of more noise and of course more money....

There is no easy way to tip toe around this. your ambient temp is pretty hot as well anyway. 27'c ambient isnt 'hot' _hot _but still pretty hot.


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## vMax65 (Nov 23, 2019)

One thing that a person has already pointed out is your case is certainly not helping. A good Mesh fronted case like the Fractal Design Meshifi series or the Cooler Master H500P Mesh will make a difference especially if you have the radiator in the top of the case extracting air with the front bringing in cool air.

As importantly the lowest stable vcore which takes time to get right especially with LLC and a drop in the AVX number will drop temps.

Aslo someone


ShrimpBrime said:


> Thats very nice results.
> Been thinking to delid my 8700k, but it already benches at 5.4ghz on stock TIM. Still contemplating the worthyness while Ill be closer to 1.6v at 5.5ghz vs the 1.520v at 5.4ghz. Starts to become a hog.
> Obviously Im not using this daily... Well I bench on it almost daily, but with sub ambient liquid cooling instead.



I eventually took the dive and delidded my 8700K and I have to admit the temp drop was just amazing at around 15 to 18 degree C. I can now run my 8700K at 4.9GHz with 2.78v 24/7 with temps well under control. Prime95 small FFT's and I do not break into the 70 degrees with mid 60's. Even at 5GHz it is well under control though my 8700K requires 1.35v which I just do not want to run 24/7...4.9GHz is more than good enough for me...but a delid did a great job...may well be worth a look for you especially as you are pushing your CPU to max and beyond....


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## Okys (Nov 23, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> The 9900k is a challenge with the best cooling and a case with very good airflow..... Going into it you should have expected a challenge imo.


Better than that may be only custom loop. As I said, i tried running without front cover and 3x140mm front fans had access to air immediately. Opened the side cover. Nothing helps. It's just impossible, that 9900K is showing better results than my 9900KS. Something is definately wrong or faulty on this build. And every 360 AIO, 280 AIO should be +/- the same...


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## vMax65 (Nov 23, 2019)

Okys said:


> Better than that may be only custom loop. As I said, i tried running without front cover and 3x140mm front fans had access to air immediately. Opened the side cover. Nothing helps. It's just impossible, that 9900K is showing better results than my 9900KS. Something is definately wrong or faulty on this build. And every 360 AIO, 280 AIO should be +/- the same...



Well I think you may be right in that you have an issue with the build. I do not think this is purely cooling related as a 280mm or 360mm AIO is able to keep the 9900KS in check at 5GHz...yes it gets hot but more than manageable.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 23, 2019)

Okys said:


> Better than that may be only custom loop. As I said, i tried running without front cover and 3x140mm front fans had access to air immediately. Opened the side cover. Nothing helps. It's just impossible, that 9900K is showing better results than my 9900KS. Something is definately wrong or faulty on this build. And every 360 AIO, 280 AIO should be +/- the same...



I agree you should be running a bit cooler but I would still expect around 90C if you're trying to run 5ghz all core with any kind of AVX workload with all limits disabled.


The majority of reviews are done at 20-22C on an open test bench so I would not compare your results to them. 

The first thing I would try is getting your vcore under 1.3 and preferable 1.25-1.28.


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## mrthanhnguyen (Nov 23, 2019)

My 9900ks runs at 5.2ghz and it is hot too; however it is still cooler than my previous 9900k. My 9900k runs 5ghz all core  1.33v avx 0 hit 90c during stress test. 9900ks 5.2ghz 1.36v hit only 85 . During gaming, its under 60c


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## R-T-B (Nov 23, 2019)

bubbleawsome said:


> Everyone saying "don't focus on the 5Ghz" is out of their mind. The entire point of the chip is the 5Ghz all-core turbo.



Turbo being keyword.

He's getting the turbo.  He's upset he can't sustain it.  That's not unusual, this is one friggin hot chip.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 23, 2019)

vMax65 said:


> One thing that a person has already pointed out is your case is certainly not helping. A good Mesh fronted case like the Fractal Design Meshifi series or the Cooler Master H500P Mesh will make a difference especially if you have the radiator in the top of the case extracting air with the front bringing in cool air.
> 
> As importantly the lowest stable vcore which takes time to get right especially with LLC and a drop in the AVX number will drop temps.
> 
> ...



My water Delta is 9c. The cpu idle varies though I don't watch it much. 15-35c depending on how much v-core I use.

Gonna try this de-lid thing. Won't be my first rodeo, so I won't have shaky hands lol.

I can see why the 9900's are soldered though. Just so many cores. Bet cut them in half  (turn off HT??) for daily use, get some decent frequency to play with huh???


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## Agentbb007 (Nov 23, 2019)

Okys said:


> It's just impossible, that 9900K is showing better results than my 9900KS. Something is definately wrong or faulty on this build. And every 360 AIO, 280 AIO should be +/- the same...


I'm sure you've got better silicon then my 9900K, I just think you're pushing too much voltage which is causing the high temps.
To get mine 100% load AVX stable at 4.9GHz using manual voltage I have to push 1.30V.  And I couldn't get AVX 5GHz stable without like 1.4V and my temps go 100C and my CPU throttles.

I agree with *oxrufiioxo *I'd recommend using Manual Voltage and trying to get 5GHz stable at the lowest possible voltage start at like 1.28V and go up .01V until it's stable and I bet your temps will be under 90C too.

Silicon Lottery says 100% 9900KS were able to hit 5GHz at 1.25V but that's with a AVX Offset of 2 so really they would be at 4.8GHz for Cinebench R20.  The only chip SIlicon Lottery sells that claims 5GHz AVX would be the 5.2GHz chip and they say that's only top 3% of 9900KS they've tested.   So I dunno does Intel promise 5GHz AVX on the 9900KS?





						Products
					

Binned Intel and AMD CPUs available at Silicon Lottery! The CPUs we sell are thoroughly tested for their maximum overclocking potential, so you know exactly what you're getting.




					siliconlottery.com


----------



## Okys (Nov 23, 2019)

An update to this:
After setting voltage to manual 1.25v, it was around 1.225v in Windows. I can now run Cinebench R20 with closed case and much less noise on 5 Ghz AVX as much as i want and temps do not exceed 80-82 degrees.
How come Auto regulation or Adaptive voltage is so bad on Maximus XI Hero with 9900KS? I am running 8700K on Maximus X Hero in my PC and i was able to select Best Case Scenario, keep everything on auto and cool it down with Noctua NH-D15S @4.8 Ghz in the same tests.
If i remember correctly, idle temps are now higher for 9900KS, but i better have them around 40 and max around 80, instead of 96 and lots of noise from fans.
One more thing i can't understand is the Cinebench score.
The only way to hit around 5200 pts which i found is an average for 5ghz all core for 9900K/9900KS ,is to keep core voltage to Auto. Then it hits around 181W TDP, 96 degrees @ 5 Ghz

At the same time Adaptive+ or Manual give these results at 5 Ghz. Except that Adaptive do much higher temps.






I took the screenshot after the test finished running, but you see the Max values, and while running, saw all the cores running at 5 Ghz.


----------



## Zach_01 (Nov 23, 2019)

Is this AIO suppose to work by it self in auto mode or needs software control, like Corsairs?
Does it have multiple modes of operation Hi/Lo/balanced) or just the one?

Is there any way to monitor water temp? That would explain a lot...


----------



## Agentbb007 (Nov 23, 2019)

Okys said:


> How come Auto regulation or Adaptive voltage is so bad on Maximus XI Hero with 9900KS? I am running 8700K on Maximus X Hero in my PC and i was able to select Best Case Scenario, keep everything on auto and cool it down with Noctua NH-D15S @4.8 Ghz in the same tests.


I think it's because Intel 9th gen introduced something called Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB) which messes with voltages.  You also have to take into account IA AC Load Line and IA DC Load Line settings which are under the "Internal CPU Power Management" menu in the UEFI.
This post has lots of detailed info but it gets really complicated and I don't understand it 





						MCE explanations and others
					

MCE    IÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢m seeing quite a lot of misunderstanding the workings of MCE so IÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢m partly writing this to address it.  It is not the taboo that it has been made up to become. There are 3 options for it, namely Auto, enabled and disabled.     Enabled merely maxes out...



					rog.asus.com
				



But from what my little brain can grasp I've learned Auto and Adaptive do some complicated voltage calculations so are difficult to set to a specific voltage and usually just push high voltage so they are stable.  So I would just stick to Manual because it's simple and you know exactly what voltage you're setting.


Okys said:


> One more thing i can't understand is the Cinebench score.
> The only way to hit around 5200 pts which i found is an average for 5ghz all core for 9900K/9900KS ,is to keep core voltage to Auto. Then it hits around 181W TDP, 96 degrees @ 5 Ghz
> At the same time Adaptive+ or Manual give these results at 5 Ghz. Except that Adaptive do much higher temps.


Good question, does higher voltage increase performance even if you leave the CPU clock frequency the same?  Try increasing your voltage to say 1.3V and re-run Cinebench 20 and see if your score increases.  If not then Auto/Adaptive must be changing more then just the CPU Vcore.


----------



## Okys (Nov 23, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> Is this AIO suppose to work by it self in auto mode or needs software control, like Corsairs?
> Does it have multiple modes of operation Hi/Lo/balanced) or just the one?
> 
> Is there any way to monitor water temp? That would explain a lot...



The pump connector is 3-pin, and when connected, it's running full speed all the time. I was confused before because it only showed around 1780 rmp, but i found a post explaining the dual pulse thing, so the motherboard only sees half the speed (single pulse).
The fans are 4-pin PWM, 0.7A each, so it's around 2A total for 3 of them. Normal fan and cpu connectors on the motherboard are rated 1A each, so i connected all 3 of them to H_AMP connector, which is 3A and disabled the CPU_FAN monitoring in BIOS.
Fans can be controlled  either using the included remote or by just connecting them to motherboard like in my case. And it works fine.
Not sure about water temp, have to check that later when wifes PC will be available again.



Agentbb007 said:


> Good question, does higher voltage increase performance even if you leave the CPU clock frequency the same?  Try increasing your voltage to say 1.3V and re-run Cinebench 20 and see if your score increases.  If not then Auto/Adaptive must be changing more then just the CPU Vcore.


I really hope someone explains this. I will try your suggestion later, but I believe something else acts differently or gets changed, when Vcore is changed from Auto to Manual. About the LLC i don't really understand that much so I kept that on Auto aswell and I remember BIOS showing some kind of predictions for it.

So, to summarize it up:
It is now stable at 5 Ghz all core AVX load (Cinebench R20),  manual 1.25v vcore (1.225v in HWMonitor). Temps do not exceed 82 degrees. The only thing is Cinebench score around 200 pts lower than the one with Vcore set to Auto.


----------



## Vayra86 (Nov 23, 2019)

Okys said:


> Anyways, I found why is my pump speed reported only half the speed. It's something related to dual pulse and motherboard can read only one, so you should double the reading.
> Tomorrow i will start lowering the voltage manually. At the moment, I am on adaptive+, HWMonitor reports voltage up to 1.3-1.32v, i have lost 200 pts of Cinebench R20 benchmark, because of adaptive voltage. As soon as i set it to Auto, temps increase by 5 degrees and bench is back to 5210 pts.
> I have never had worst experience with things that should be working straight out of the box...
> 
> ...



You should definitely try to bench with an open case (*both *side panels off) and see what happens, just to get a feel of the impact of the case on your temps.

That way you can get a better judgment on what is happening with your other components. I doubt you have faulty gear, tbh. Judging from your last post you run a very comfy vcore now, and 82C is safe but it does also read like on the hot side given your cooling. 1.25V isn't a whole lot, and when you say Cinebench AVX load, is it really running 5 Ghz or are you using an offset?



Agentbb007 said:


> I think it's because Intel 9th gen introduced something called Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB) which messes with voltages.  You also have to take into account IA AC Load Line and IA DC Load Line settings which are under the "Internal CPU Power Management" menu in the UEFI.
> This post has lots of detailed info but it gets really complicated and I don't understand it
> 
> 
> ...



Auto modes are usually set by manufacturer of board, while manual adheres to the voltage table intel sets for each multiplier. At least, that is what it looks/feels like on the boards I've seen.


----------



## LAN_deRf_HA (Nov 23, 2019)

Okys said:


> An update to this:
> After setting voltage to manual 1.25v, it was around 1.225v in Windows. I can now run Cinebench R20 with closed case and much less noise on 5 Ghz AVX as much as i want and temps do not exceed 80-82 degrees.
> How come Auto regulation or Adaptive voltage is so bad on Maximus XI Hero with 9900KS? I am running 8700K on Maximus X Hero in my PC and i was able to select Best Case Scenario, keep everything on auto and cool it down with Noctua NH-D15S @4.8 Ghz in the same tests.
> If i remember correctly, idle temps are now higher for 9900KS, but i better have them around 40 and max around 80, instead of 96 and lots of noise from fans.
> ...



This temp makes sense, but so did your initial temp. The voltage makes a huge difference, and seeing 9900k/s chips hitting high 90s around 5ghz on top tier cooling is insanely common. I'd call it the norm, even with a big custom loop. Some people even utilize the optional 115C tj max. I also wouldn't hold onto the past with this notion of not using AVX offset. When you get no offset 5ghz stable that just means you're pissing away the 5.2ghz non-avx speeds you could also be getting.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 23, 2019)

Vario said:


> there aren't any real world gains to be made at 5 GHz vs 4.5 GHz, don't drive yourself crazy trying to achieve it.



Yup hmmv lol.

Gotta keep vrms cool too


----------



## mrthanhnguyen (Nov 23, 2019)

with real time priority cinebench jumps a few points, so you may want to try it. The last time I ran cinebench r20, it hit like 5400, but this time in the 5300 range,so you may see the number up and down.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Nov 23, 2019)

mrthanhnguyen said:


> with real time priority cinebench jumps a few points, so you may want to try it. The last time I ran cinebench r20, it hit like 5400, but this time in the 5300 range,so you may see the number up and down.
> 
> View attachment 137425


Nice whats the memory at?


----------



## Arctucas (Nov 24, 2019)

Highlighted a few of the important things.


----------



## mrthanhnguyen (Nov 24, 2019)

Arctucas said:


> View attachment 137434
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Golden 9900k. You hit the silicon lottery.


----------



## exodusprime1337 (Nov 24, 2019)

Just a quick time and my 2 cents. As long as you get the AIO pump speed sorted or have it sorted already, drop the vccio and vcsa down to 1.21 and 1.18 respectively. I'll have to check my bios for the same settings but i'm running roughly the same setup as you, board, ram, and just a 9900k at 5.1 stable, and i hit high  70's and low 80's on custom water. Dropping those two voltages from auto gave me a lot of headroom though.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Nov 24, 2019)

Not sure if it was mentioned, but how are the fans on your AIO set up?  Are they exhaust or intake?


----------



## trog100 (Nov 24, 2019)

my 9900k which is a good one runs 5 g at 1.24 core voltage.. but with prolonged running lets say ten minutes it gets too hot... 

the 9900ks is designed to throttle down to 4.7 g after 30 seconds or so.. 

i only game with mine so i turn HT off and run at 5 g.. my chip games at around 65C or a bit less.. mind you it does this HT on or off... its stuff that (cpu benchmarks) runs the chip on all cylinders that cause it to run hot after ten minutes or so.. turning HT off just stops this happening..

trog


----------



## John Naylor (Nov 24, 2019)

1.  The Thermaltake 360 is not a great performer,  As you can see here @ 4.4 Ghz (23:00 mark), it has to be almost twice as loud to get within 4 C the Swiftech H240X and more athan 4 times as loud as the D15 to beat it by 2C.  And at 40 dbA, it ties the Noctua NH-D15 while the Thermaltake is 7 dbA (1.62 times) louder.










2.  What do you mean pushing air thru the radiator ?  For best performance, fans should be moving cooler outside ambient air thru the radiator into the case, not pushing preheated inside case air thru the rad.  See Corsair's instructions below:






Lets look at this with your case situation ....

(3) 140s as Front Intake and let's say 20 % reduction in air flow w/ moderate dust buildup in filters so 3 x 0.8 = 2.40 EFs (equivalent fans)
(3) Exhaust fans on top, no filters = 3 x 1.0 = 3.00 EFs
(1) Exhaust fan on rear, no filters = 1 x 1.0 = 1.00 EFs

Even w/ filters removed, you still have a 4:3 deficit.  If installed as was assumed above, flip the fans over for a 6 in / 1 out scenario ... the mindset that an intake fan "needs' help getting air out of a vented enclosure is non-scientific ... And attic fan in a building doesn't have a corresponding intake fan ... an exhaust fan in a kitchen does not need an intake fan ... a window fan in a bedroom window needs noting but another open window to work properly.

That's 4 EFs worth of air going out and just 2.4 EFs coming in leaving you with a  deficit of 1.6 EFs.  Where is that make-up air coming in ?  It's coming in thru those veted slot covers and rear grille .... Is case installed on top of (or worse under) your desk against wall ? ... Isn't that the same space where your PSU and GPU exhaust their hot air ?  Then that hot exhaust is likely being sucked back in to your PC.  We use a "garage band' fog machine to test this and when discharging the fogger behind the PC, we often see the case fill up w/ fog when rad fans are installed contrary to the laws of thermodynamics and manufacturers recommendations.  yes, we all learned in 8th grade earth Scince that hor air rises ...  but when a fan is present, it goes the way a fan wants it to go.

3.  CLCs are limited in what they can do due to teeny (0.11 gpm) pumps and low efficiency aluminum rads; they require extreme fan speeds to compensate.  If ya plan on using an 360 AIO, would recommend the Swiftech all copper units (H360X) with 1.0+ gpm pumps and all copper componentry.  Delta T (Ambient to Coolant) usually runs 8 - 12C









						Swiftech Drive X3 AIO CPU Coolers
					

Drive X3 AIO, all-in-one CPU cooler with built-in addressable RGB lighting



					www.swiftech.com
				




4.  You should have the following fans as a minimum:

One (1) 1250 rpm, 140mm fan for each 75 - 100 watts of component max power draw
One (1) 1250 rpm, 120mm fan for each 50 - 75 watts of component max power draw

No. of Intake fans = 1.3 - 1.5 times No. of Exhaust fans to compensate for moderately dusty air inlet filters and avoid having hot GPU / PSU exhaust being sucked into case thru vented slot covers and rear case grilles.

5.  What is the purpose of this build ?

a) Competitive Overclocking and earning place on web site leader boards
b)  Running games and applications

If it is b), then I see no value in running synthetic stress tests.  These utilities place unrealistic loads on the system.  If its b), use a application based, mulithreaded stress test like RoG Real Bench which will place for heavier loads on the system then it will ever see again ... and in a multitasking environment.


----------



## mrthanhnguyen (Nov 24, 2019)

Im selling some 360 aio in the selling thread. You may want to take a look


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 25, 2019)

bubbleawsome said:


> Everyone saying "don't focus on the 5Ghz" is out of their mind. The entire point of the chip is the 5Ghz all-core turbo. If his can't make it without throttling it's not getting it's rated speed, and should be warrantied.


But it's working in spec. 5 ghz turbo. When the boost time (tau) runs out, boost drops to spec.

Anyway, looks like it was resolved...that auto voltage will get you every time.


----------



## TxGrin (Nov 25, 2019)

I would take the chip back and swap it out, Mine at 5.2Ghz right out of the box under 100% load and only gets to 70c. I paired mine with the *Gigabyte Z390 AORUS MASTER* motherboard and a 
*Hydro Series™ H115i RGB PLATINUM*


----------



## CopperBlockhead (Nov 25, 2019)

There is something else you might want to investigate: How your motherboard conforms to the Intel Spec regarding the TDP. The "throttling" phenomenon you mentioned appears to be a function of the motherboard manufacturer. For example, the rather pricey MSI "MEG Z390 GODLIKE" motherboard seems to hold overclocks higher and longer without throttling if you have the BIOS setting tweaked right and your cooling solution is managing the heat load. Not all motherboards treat the Intel spec the same. Some "chicken out" and throttle often. Others, like this MSI board, seem to say "OK, if you know what you're doing, here goes..." and you will live or die by your cooling solution.

Remember, TDP is not the full story. The technical details in the spec DO allow for 1.25 times to the TDP to be the "max" power for a duration not to exceed that "mu" factor.


----------



## Vayra86 (Nov 25, 2019)

CopperBlockhead said:


> There is something else you might want to investigate: How your motherboard conforms to the Intel Spec regarding the TDP. The "throttling" phenomenon you mentioned appears to be a function of the motherboard manufacturer. For example, the rather pricey MSI "MEG Z390 GODLIKE" motherboard seems to hold overclocks higher and longer without throttling if you have the BIOS setting tweaked right and your cooling solution is managing the heat load. Not all motherboards treat the Intel spec the same. Some "chicken out" and throttle often. Others, like this MSI board, seem to say "OK, if you know what you're doing, here goes..." and you will live or die by your cooling solution.
> 
> Remember, TDP is not the full story. The technical details in the spec DO allow for 1.25 times to the TDP to be the "max" power for a duration not to exceed that "mu" factor.



I can at least confirm that Asrock boards also go the full Tjmax, met that once already


----------



## Okys (Nov 26, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> You should definitely try to bench with an open case (*both *side panels off) and see what happens, just to get a feel of the impact of the case on your temps.
> 
> That way you can get a better judgment on what is happening with your other components. I doubt you have faulty gear, tbh. Judging from your last post you run a very comfy vcore now, and 82C is safe but it does also read like on the hot side given your cooling. 1.25V isn't a whole lot, and when you say Cinebench AVX load, is it really running 5 Ghz or are you using an offset?



That's what I already tried (mentioned in previous posts) but on Auto voltage it didn't give noticeable difference.
About the AVX offset I also mentioned before, it is set to 0.
The strange behavior that still doesn't have an explanation is, that only on Auto voltage (without changing anything else and keeping AVX offset at 0) I am able to achieve 5200 - 5220 pts in Cinebench R20, which seems an average for 9900K/9900KS on 5 Ghz AVX. As soon as I change voltage to manual or adaptive+ (and only that) the score drops by around 170-180 pts.



exodusprime1337 said:


> Just a quick time and my 2 cents. As long as you get the AIO pump speed sorted or have it sorted already, drop the vccio and vcsa down to 1.21 and 1.18 respectively. I'll have to check my bios for the same settings but i'm running roughly the same setup as you, board, ram, and just a 9900k at 5.1 stable, and i hit high  70's and low 80's on custom water. Dropping those two voltages from auto gave me a lot of headroom though.



Thanks, I will definately try that, when wife goes to work again and her PC becomes available.



Aaron_Henderson said:


> Not sure if it was mentioned, but how are the fans on your AIO set up?  Are they exhaust or intake?



They are exhausting air from the case through the 360mm radiator on top. It's just how wife wanted it to be. I will continue further experiments, when her PC becomes available, but it won't make a big difference anyway if i install 360 radiator on front. If she's rendering something, she aren't using both CPU and GPU, like AIDA64 stress test did. This test was the only way to throttle the CPU. For gaming, I ran ARK. CPU was around 60-62 degrees.



John Naylor said:


> 1.  The Thermaltake 360 is not a great performer,  As you can see here @ 4.4 Ghz (23:00 mark), it has to be almost twice as loud to get within 4 C the Swiftech H240X and more athan 4 times as loud as the D15 to beat it by 2C.  And at 40 dbA, it ties the Noctua NH-D15 while the Thermaltake is 7 dbA (1.62 times) louder.
> 
> 2.  What do you mean pushing air thru the radiator ?  For best performance, fans should be moving cooler outside ambient air thru the radiator into the case, not pushing preheated inside case air thru the rad.  See Corsair's instructions below:
> 
> ...



There are some points on which i agree with you, but not all.
The top exhaust (through radiator) or front intake will, of course affect the CPU temps, but not as much as someone would think. Non-blower GPU is messing everything up anyway. With 3x140mm intake fans reacting to CPU temp, there's lots of fresh air getting into the case. It is not like everything is boiling inside without any cool air intake and only escaping through the top.
The only thing I would consider reversing is the single rear 140mm PWM fan, to get cool air in for VRM's. This will require dust filter, of course. At the moment it is just spinning at low rpm's. I think the air pressure inside the case is +/- balanced this way, but of course I will check it with time. If the pressure inside the case will turn out to be negative, I will reverse the rear fan, because I don't want dust entering the case through every possible opening.

About the other things.. PC sits on a desk. I always try to avoid putting them on the ground, or somewhere where airflow is restricted.
Thermaltake Water 3.0 ARGB is not a bad performer either. It's an average, Asetek type AIO, performing about the same as others. Was chosen by wife, because of the looks and availability in my country. For myself I'm using Noctua NH-D15S and would never choose an AIO, simply because of reliability and noise. I don't care the looks.
The Swiftech cooler you mentioned has limited ways for installing, because pump is located near the radiator and it's not available in my country anyway.
Purpose of the build is gaming, some video rendering and Photoshop.



EarthDog said:


> But it's working in spec. 5 ghz turbo. When the boost time (tau) runs out, boost drops to spec.
> 
> Anyway, looks like it was resolved...that auto voltage will get you every time.


Im also using Auto voltage with best case scenarion on my Maximus X Hero and 8700K and it runs perfecty fine @ 4.8 Ghz on all cores with everything i feed to it.
For 9900KS on Maximus XI Hero it's a different story... It's a huge difference 1.33v auto voltage, or 1.25v manual (1.225v in HWmonitor). I haven't tried lowering the voltage more, 1.25v was my first try. When this PC becomes available again, I will continue experimenting.
Another person posted in the comments to try to get it to 5.2 Ghz and setting AVX offset to -2. This is also something I want to try.


----------



## Agentbb007 (Nov 27, 2019)

*Okys *it might be worth it to apply new high quality thermal compound paste to your cooler as well.  I just applied ARCTIC MX-4 2019 Edition and my max temp went from *87C to 75C* during a Cinebench R20 benchmark!


----------



## mrthanhnguyen (Nov 27, 2019)

he's using Kryonaut which is one of the best thermal paste on the market now.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 27, 2019)

mrthanhnguyen said:


> he's using Kryonaut which is one of the best thermal paste on the market now.


Not to mention no common thermal paste is bad enough to be 12C different... other factors are clearly involved there.


----------



## mrthanhnguyen (Nov 27, 2019)

That temp is normal I think. For cinebench, Im also crazy about the score. I have not seen anyone hit 5200 at 5ghz (maybe with real time priority) I hit close to 5500 at 5.2ghz with real time priority.It stays around 60-70 during stress but some cores spike up to 83-84 within a second then drop back down.


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Nov 27, 2019)

John Naylor said:


> 1.  The Thermaltake 360 is not a great performer,  As you can see here @ 4.4 Ghz (23:00 mark), it has to be almost twice as loud to get within 4 C the Swiftech H240X and more athan 4 times as loud as the D15 to beat it by 2C.  And at 40 dbA, it ties the Noctua NH-D15 while the Thermaltake is 7 dbA (1.62 times) louder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thats some crazy math, but not exactly wrong either, the typical measurement uses case pressure, which can use this math to get the same desired result. Meaning 3 intake fans and 3 exhaust fans typically relate to 0 (zero) case pressure. This math would result in a negative case pressure, unless you used better fans as suggest ( static pressure fans ). Tactical fan placement with quality fans can let you get away with an extra exhaust fan.

ideally, you want the 360 exhausting out the top, and the 120 out the back, the lower air flow thru the radiator and rear would make 3 high flow intake fans good enough to keep negative case pressure closer to 0. Mounting a 360 (3 fan) to the front as intake in a pull config i can see needing 4 exhaust fans just for the airflow, but this leads to a higher negative case pressure. The only main fault is that it would require higher than normal case maintenance.


----------



## trog100 (Nov 27, 2019)

"I just want to run a stable, advertised 5Ghz on all cores, in any situation, while keeping the temps below 90 degrees. Is that even possible "

to cut a very long story short.. when all cores are fully loaded and with normal type cooling the answer is no..

trog


----------



## CopperBlockhead (Dec 3, 2019)

For my i9-9900KS build I am going to go with the a high performance two-phase thermosyphon coupled with a microchannel heat pipe. This should be able to cool 8-cores running 24x7 even at 5.2 GHz.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 3, 2019)

Big heat sink, big fans, lots of air. Forget about AIO’s  
High performance and silence do not go hand in hand, just sayin.


----------



## EarthDog (Dec 3, 2019)

trog100 said:


> "I just want to run a stable, advertised 5Ghz on all cores, in any situation, while keeping the temps below 90 degrees. Is that even possible "
> 
> to cut a very long story short.. when all cores are fully loaded and with normal type cooling the answer is no..
> 
> trog


Depends on the test and what you consider normal cooling. High-end air or a AIO (2X120+) running AIDA64... more can than you may think. 

If 95% of these cpus can run 1.25V and 5ghz with a -2 avx offset with a 240mm aio running tests generally more stressful than aida...








						Intel Core i9 9900KS @ 5.0GHz Special Edition
					

Intel Core i9 9900KS Overclocked and Binned CPU.




					siliconlottery.com


----------



## CopperBlockhead (Dec 3, 2019)

freeagent said:


> High performance and silence do not go hand in hand, just sayin.



The sound of a 2-stage thermosyphon is the sound of a volatile drop of moisture turning to vapor 
It removes about 260 Watts per square centimeter of surface area.

When my parts show up, I'll create a build log for you guys to demonstrate.


----------



## EarthDog (Dec 3, 2019)

CopperBlockhead said:


> The sound of a 2-stage thermosyphon is the sound of a volatile drop of moisture turning to vapor
> It removes about 260 Watts per square centimeter of surface area.
> 
> When my parts show up, I'll create a build log for you guys to demonstrate.


That's awesome... hope it isnt wasted on a 24/7 system and push that bad boy for real. That said...it isnt so much the cooler as it is actually getting the heat out of that concentrated place. Regardless, I cant wait to see the build log.


----------



## CopperBlockhead (Dec 3, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> That's awesome... hope it isnt wasted on a 24/7 system and push that bad boy for real. That said...it isnt so much the cooler as it is actually getting the heat out of that concentrated place. Regardless, I cant wait to see the build log.



Here is the video of one that is already built
link removed


----------



## EarthDog (Dec 3, 2019)

CopperBlockhead said:


> Here is the video of one that is already built
> link removed


Do you work for them or something and spamming links, lol? You are all up on this thing....I read the first one.


----------



## CopperBlockhead (Dec 3, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Do you work for them or something and spamming links? You are all up on this thing....



No I don't work for them. And I am new here. I made a post and then I did not see where it went. So at most I did 2 posts about it. But I can only see the one I just made. I thought people would be interested in seeing something that looks like a real game-changer that isn't really widely known.

I'll just keep it to myself if that's what the board wants.


----------



## EarthDog (Dec 3, 2019)

CopperBlockhead said:


> No I don't work for them. And I am new here. I made a post and then I did not see where it went. So at most I did 2 posts about it. But I can only see the one I just made. I thought people would be interested in seeing something that looks like a real game-changer that isn't really widely known.
> 
> I'll just keep it to myself if that's what the board wants.


lol, relax... there are two posts each with the link in it. We would have no idea you cant see your first post. 

Anyway, looks cool, but is it ready/in production? The website is just that one page... you cant buy it, cant click on details of either product, nada. Just a video and that's it. Maybe I couldn't find it but how do you know it can mitigate 260w of heat in a cm? Did you talk with them?

Have you order it already? How much is it? Hiw much wattage can it cool at what delta? Info would be great... 

Edit: maybe create a thread for it to discuss instead of off topic here? I'm really curious about this being an extreme overclocker (semi-retired).


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 3, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> lol, relax... there are two posts each with the link in it. We would have no idea you cant see your first post.
> 
> Anyway, looks cool, but is it ready/in production? The website is just that one page... you cant buy it, cant click on details of either product, nada. Just a video and that's it. Maybe I couldn't find it but how do you know it can mitigate 260w of heat in a cm? Did you tall with them?
> 
> Have you order it already? How much is it? Hiw much wattage can it cool at what delta? Info would be great...



They just got their patent in may 2019. There's no specifications and most of the links are 404.


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## EarthDog (Dec 3, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> They just got their patent in may 2019. There's no specifications and most of the links are 404.


Exactly what I was getting at. 

Wondering how this guy knows all this stuff about the product when it doesnt appear to be on the website. It looks cool as hell, but wondering how well it really works...cost...capacity...etc... feels like vaporware.....yet parts are on the way. 

Please understand why I asked if you(copper) worked there.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 3, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Exactly what I was getting at.
> 
> Wondering how this guy knows all this stuff about the product when it doesnt appear to be on the website. It looks cool as hell, but wondering how well it really works...cost...capacity...etc... feels like vaporware.....



It would be nice to have some specs. I mean I wouldn't be mad if he was advertising, it's not on my dime 

But from the looks of it, it's alcohol based cooling system with a patent cold plate that may efficiently exchange heat well enough to remove from a processor.

Just exactly how many BTU is not clear, the video only said "hundreds" of BTU. This is not a chiller by any means.



CopperBlockhead said:


> No I don't work for them. And I am new here. I made a post and then I did not see where it went. So at most I did 2 posts about it. But I can only see the one I just made. I thought people would be interested in seeing something that looks like a real game-changer that isn't really widely known.
> 
> I'll just keep it to myself if that's what the board wants.



Am interested. I like chilling things, cooling things, removing heat from things. It's kinda what I do! 

Please do share, we are curious and have almost no information to go by.


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## EarthDog (Dec 3, 2019)

Found info (their website sucks, lol)
link

This thing has been around since 2015...
mhp technology tested by tweaktown


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 3, 2019)

Oh yea I remember that setup. Pretty nifty, slightly impressive. Definately not new. 

CFC-12 or R12 refrigerant. Yea it boils and that's how the system works. No pumps.  

However add in a 1.5hp pump and I'm sold!


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## CopperBlockhead (Dec 6, 2019)

I will create a thread describing how I know about [affilated brand] and my lab where I am experimenting with extreme overclocks with exotic cooling that can be built by anyone with basic welding experience coupled with multiple degrees in engineering.


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## phanbuey (Dec 6, 2019)

Im surprised there arent more systems like this, that [affilated brand] setup looks amazing.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 6, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> Im surprised there arent more systems like this, that [affilated brand] setup looks amazing.


Looks and abilities are different aspects.

It likely wont be any better than a water loop.

This kind of design is still using ambient as end cooling and will have large impact on results.

R12 like most refrigerants work best once compressed. Since this system hasnt a compressor, I wouldnt expect anything spectacular, this system doesnt add chilling.


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