# Building a modern system.



## Grog6 (Apr 26, 2021)

I have a friend that asks me to build him a new system every few years, as they get outdated. The last one worked for 10 years before we had to update the graphics card.
He gave me a soft budget of $5k, I looked thru reviews and all, and came up with this list. I know video cards are unobtanium now, so this ignores that totally.
Does anything on this list look Wrong?
I can take a flaming. \





was shopping on Newegg.com and wanted to share the item(s) in his/her cart with you. You can view the entire contents below.



*Cart Item List: *




*Qty.**Product Description**Savings**Total Price*​2​
Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 2TB PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 3D2, QLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDPEKNW020T8X1
Form Factor: M.2 2280 Capacity: 2TB Memory Components: 3D NAND
Item #:N82E16820167461
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
$449.98​1​
AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3955WX 3.9 GHz Socket sWRX8 100-100000167WOF Desktop Processor
Item #:N82E16819113673
Return Policy: Replacement Only Return Policy
$1,149.99
$1,148.99​1​
ASUS Pro WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI sWRX8 Extended ATX AMD Motherboard
CPU Socket Type: sWRX8
Item #:N82E16813119391
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
$999.99​8​
HyperX Fury RGB HX436C17FB3A/8 8GB DDR4 3600Mhz Non ECC Memory RAM DIMM
Capacity: 8GB Type: 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM Speed: DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) CAS Latency: 17 Color: Black LED Color: RGB Fan Included: No Option: N/A
Item #:2KY-0009-000Z8
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
$583.92​1​
Cooler Master V1300 Platinum 1300W Full-Modular, 80 PLUS Platinum, Japanese Capacitors, Single/Multi Rail Switch, 10 Year Warranty Power Supply
Maximum Power: 1300W Fans: 1 Modular: Full Modular Model: MasterWatt
Item #:9SIABXXEA57717
Sold by *CCTV_IPC_NVR*
$558.38​4​
Kingston 32GB 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model HX432C16FB3/32
Capacity: 32GB Type: 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM Speed: DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) CAS Latency: 16 Color: Black
Item #:9SIAH41E2G5031
Sold by *Easternstar*
$869.44​*Grand Total:*​$4,610.70​
�




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## dirtyferret (Apr 26, 2021)

what does your friend do with computers?


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 26, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> Does anything on this list look Wrong?
> I can take a flaming. \


Yeah, the price. What is he using the rig for?


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## Grog6 (Apr 26, 2021)

General purpose computing; gaming mostly. He wants it to last another 10 years, like the last one. 

I realize this is overkill, but it includes all the buzzwords he mentioned. 

This is more of a "can I" more than a" Should I" post.


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## dirtyferret (Apr 26, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> General purpose computing; gaming mostly. He wants it to last another 10 years, like the last one.
> 
> I realize this is overkill, but it includes all the buzzwords he mentioned.
> 
> This is more of a "can I" more than a" Should I" post.


it looks more like a work station you are about to build with enough juice to power multiple video cards, it's not overkill so much as it's not an ideal build for gaming


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 26, 2021)

Overkill+5 IMO unless he's into video / graphics editing / content creation etc.


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## Grog6 (Apr 26, 2021)

I only missed his target price by eighteen bux, though.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 26, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I only missed his target price by eighteen bux, though.



Haha. I wouldn't spend 5k on a rig to last me 10 years though. I go for the 2k mark and see what upgrades can be had along the way.
Mind you I used to like a frequent hardware refresh. Not so much these days though.


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## dirtyferret (Apr 26, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I only missed his target price by eighteen bux, though.


web sites like logical increments, tom's hardware, PCgamer, techspot among others always post various price point builds.  I would suggest checking them out and getting a ballpark idea of what the top gaming CPUs, GPUs, mobos, etc., are and start your friend's build from there.

FYI, your friend may actually get better performance and longevity by doing a $2.5k build now and in five years do another $2.5k build.


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## 64K (Apr 26, 2021)

tbh your friend would be much better off with a more modest build now and an upgrade 5 years from now. There's no such thing as future-proof. We don't have any idea what's coming even 5 years from now in gaming. That 1300 watt Platinum PSU is extreme overkill for any single GPU rig. You can get a robust EVGA Supernova Gold with a 10 year warranty for around $200


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## Grog6 (Apr 26, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Haha. I wouldn't spend 5k on a rig to last me 10 years though. I go for the 2k mark and see what upgrades can be had along the way.
> Mind you I used to like a frequent hardware refresh. Not so much these days though.


Me either; my socket 2011 system is still doing just fine; $2k  is my usual target.

But, it won't include his requested buzzwords. 

I was blown away by the $1000 mobo ,lol


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## Selaya (Apr 26, 2021)

This build is completely useless for gaming. You're building a Workstation here.



			https://pcpartpicker.com/list/wWMnVc
		

^ more like it, this is about $2,500 so it leaves another $2,500 for a GPU.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 26, 2021)

Well, if he has 5k to burn and you enjoy building the rig. What the heck. 
Just don't tell him you'll need another scalping 3k for a GPU--- if they become available


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## Grog6 (Apr 26, 2021)

I have several generations of video cards, that he can borrow until sanity returns to the market.

He has a lot of disposable cash; he runs a beutiful Vette drag car . I think he ran out of ways to spend money on it, strange as it sounds. After tou're rocking twin turbos, mods get scarce.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 26, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I have several generations of video cards, that he can borrow until sanity returns to the market.
> 
> He has a lot of disposable cash; he runs a beutiful Vette drag car . I think he ran out of ways to spend money on it, strange as it sounds. After tou're rocking twin turbos, mods get scarce.



Spend away it is then. I'd still stick to the 2-2.5k mark though and see what's coming in the near future.
I still have my 980ti sat behind me in mint condition, box and all. Lovely little hot beast it is that hasn't seen action in nearly 2 years.
Don't really keep that much hardware any longer because of the clutter. Still have my old Sinclair Spectrum tucked away along with some other stuff.


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## Grog6 (Apr 26, 2021)

I still have a cherry PC XT and a PC AT; packrats have nothing on me, lol.


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## birdie (Apr 26, 2021)

I'd choose Ryzen 9 5950X over AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3955WX any day of the week unless you absolutely need AMD PRO, a ton of PCI-E lanes or more than 128GB of RAM.


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## Deleted member 202104 (Apr 26, 2021)

I mean since we're in overkill mode, seems like you could spend a bit more for some <buzzword>PCIe 4.0 4x NVMe M.2 drives.</buzzword>  Two 980 Pros?









						SAMSUNG 980 PRO M.2 2280 2TB PCIe Gen 4.0 x4, NVMe 1.3c Samsung V-NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V8P2T0B/AM - Newegg.com
					

Buy SAMSUNG 980 PRO M.2 2280 2TB PCIe Gen 4.0 x4, NVMe 1.3c Samsung V-NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V8P2T0B/AM with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com


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## Grog6 (Apr 26, 2021)

Not sure what you're saying. I like Samsung; please enlighten me.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 26, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> Not sure what you're saying. I like Samsung; please enlighten me.



Samsung Evo M.2 drives.


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## dragontamer5788 (Apr 26, 2021)

I'd censor out your email address before its webscraped permanently into a web-crawler. Its hard enough to deal with spam without having your email address laying around.

-------

> Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 2TB PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 3D2, QLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDPEKNW020T8X1

I really dislike that drive. Its QLC: slow and fragile compared to others that are similarly priced. Try the HP EX950 instead: TLC technology, faster and more reliable.

> AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3955WX

Despite being very expensive, the Threadripper "WX" series is very niche. I think its only really useful to people who are doing 3d rendering. I suggest sticking with a "mainstream" Threadripper, like the 3990x. 3995WX is slower than 3990x in many tasks: the extra cores use up so much power that they're forced to clock lower. As a result, the 3990x is faster in most "practical" tasks.

EDIT: Actually, do you have any idea what your friend will do with the computer? Knowing what tasks they plan to run will help figure out if "pro wx" or "standard" will be better for your tasks. 8-channels of RAM is pretty niche, especially if you're getting only a 16-core / 32-thread CPU.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 26, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> I'd censor out your email address before its webscraped permanently into a web-crawler. Its hard enough to deal with spam without having your email address laying around.



A very good idea.


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## Deleted member 202104 (Apr 26, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> Not sure what you're saying. I like Samsung; please enlighten me.



The Intel 660p drives you've chosen are pretty slow, even for PCIe 3.0.  The Samsung are some of the fastest 4.0 drives.


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## dragontamer5788 (Apr 26, 2021)

> Cooler Master V1300 Platinum 1300W Full-Modular

This is grossly overpowered. You probably can save several hundred $$$ by making a more natural 750W PSU instead. 1300 is probably needed for a cryptominer (or anyone who runs 3+ GPUs).  But even a high-end dual-GPU setup (which is already grossly unnecessary for most people) is going to struggle to use more than 1000W.


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## Grog6 (Apr 26, 2021)

(Done! Thanks!!

I've had that email since '91; I'd hate for it to be unusable.


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## dragontamer5788 (Apr 26, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> Not sure what you're saying. I like Samsung; please enlighten me.



The Intel 660p are low-end SSDs. If you're spending this much money, the general argument is to buy a higher quality SSD. If you're sticking to the ~$120 price point, stuff like the HP Ex950 are strictly superior for the same costs. If you're willing to upgrade to PCIe 4.0 at ~$200 per TB, then there are a variety of high end SSD options there (Samsung being one of the high-end PCIe 4.0 options).

Either way, the Intel 660p is a poor choice given the specs of the rest of the system.


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## Why_Me (Apr 26, 2021)

Selaya said:


> This build is completely useless for gaming. You're building a Workstation here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Change up the cpu on your build to a 5900X, drop down to 32GB of RAM, and you can fit in one of those new 3080 Ti cards _($3000 on ebay if I had to guess_).

And I'd switch up the psu for some extra juice.

https://www.newegg.com/super-flower-leadex-v-gold-pro-sf-1000f14tg-1000w/p/1HU-024C-00035
Super Flower Leadex V Gold PRO 1000W 80+ Gold, Smallest 130mm 1000W ATX PSU, 10 Years Warranty, Patent Super Connectors, Full Modular With Ultra-Flexible Flat Ribbon Cables, FDB PWM Fan $209.99









						Nvidia GeForce RTX 3080 Ti spotted in online listing
					

The MSI flavored 3080 Ti is already making waves




					www.techradar.com


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## Selaya (Apr 27, 2021)

Very much doubt you will need more than like 850W actual.
An 850W-rated prime will be able to handle actual 850W draw, transients and all. (Obviously a Leadex would do the same but yeah.) So I really do not see the point of 1,000W here.

As for the other part selection, since this is the _money is no object_ thread I kinda went into overkill mode here. If you wish to trim some fat then yes, those would be the obvious things to downgrade first.


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## Why_Me (Apr 27, 2021)

Selaya said:


> Very much doubt you will need more than like 850W actual.
> An 850W-rated prime will be able to handle actual 850W draw, transients and all. (Obviously a Leadex would do the same but yeah.) So I really do not see the point of 1,000W here.
> 
> As for the other part selection, since this is the _money is no object_ thread I kinda went into overkill mode here. If you wish to trim some fat then yes, those would be the obvious things to downgrade first.


The 3080's are power hogs so I can only guess what the new 3080 Ti's will be like.    1000w gives a nice little buffer.


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## RandallFlagg (Apr 27, 2021)

Zen 2 based Threadripper is unlikely to be useable for as long as a 5950X due to Zen 3's superior single thread performance.  1T performance is the real differentiator between last gen and the most current CPUs (Zen 2, Comet/Cofee Lake vs Rocket Lake / Tiger Lake / Zen 3).   I think it'll be a lot more important than more cores.

Also as others mentioned the SSD is lower end.  

Get a motherboard with Thunderbolt 3 or 4.  That one only has USB 3.2 Gen 2 which is only 10Mbps.   If you think thunderbolt won't be a thing then at least get USB 3.2 2x2 which is 20Mbps.  Thunderbolt 3 and 4 go up to 40Mbps though.  At that price point, get both.


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## Selaya (Apr 27, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> The 3080's are power hogs so I can only guess what the new 3080 Ti's will be like.    1000w gives a nice little buffer.


Yes but assuming the rest of your system will peak out at 250W (150W for the CPU and 100W for everything else) that'd still leave 600W for the GPU.
Last I checked even a 3090 will not draw that much unless you're LN2 overclocking. And something like a Prime or a Leadex will be 100% good for their rated power (and then some, _just in case_). I really fail to see why a 1,000W PSU would be needed if you aren't running multi-GPU (lol, SLI's dead) or something.


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## dragontamer5788 (Apr 27, 2021)

Selaya said:


> Yes but assuming the rest of your system will peak out at 250W (150W for the CPU and 100W for everything else) that'd still leave 600W for the GPU.
> Last I checked even a 3090 will not draw that much unless you're LN2 overclocking. And something like a Prime or a Leadex will be 100% good for their rated power (and then some, _just in case_). I really fail to see why a 1,000W PSU would be needed if you aren't running multi-GPU (lol, SLI's dead) or something.



I agree with this post but prefer to word it differently.   I'd personally write it as:

Only multi-GPU setups (or multi-CPU server setups) require 1000W PSUs.


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## GamerGuy (Apr 27, 2021)

I've always been a proponent of 'the more, the merrier' when it comes to 'powah'. If I think I'd need a 750W good quality PSU to run my rig nicely, I'd take a good quality 850W PSU at the very minimum instead. I usually buy PSU's in the 1kW range, just so I have room for more hardware to be added, and perhaps even more power hungry GPU. 

When I was building my present gaming rig back in September, 2019, I reused my Vega 64 Red Devil, which is a power hog, but I knew I was gonna upgrade that GPU as soon as I see more powerful cards from AMD or nVidia. I didn't know how much power these would need, so I'd gotten a Corsair HX1000 Platinum just so I'd be ready for whatever card I'd be getting. 

I like the extra PSU headroom, besides, a good PSU can always be reused in a new build, so a good and powerful PSU now means I'd not have to worry about upgrading my PSU in the future. I have an old SilverStone OP1000 (my first 1kW PSU!) which I'd reused over the years, finally put it in an i7 2600K/GTX670 rig and sold it to my friend (for cheap I might add). Even now, after about 13 years, that PSU is still kicking butt!


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## Selaya (Apr 27, 2021)

The problem is just that we're already kinda capped on TGP or w/e it's called for individual GPUs - they simply cannot dissipate more heat than like about 200-300W without resorting to things like LN2.
With both SLI and CrossFire being dead you're not running more than one GPU anyways and I very much doubt we will see a mainstream GPU that'll draw more than 300W sustained for a _very long_ time to come.

That being said, a 850W PSU is already plenty generous in terms of headroom. 1,000W+ is for professional users and/or miners.


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## trparky (Apr 27, 2021)

For the memory, I'd go with G.Skill Ripjaws since they have slightly tighter timings and they're cheaper too. However, this build is overkill just for the sake of being overkill. Hell, I'd have to say that overkill doesn't even start to describe this build. This build is so far outside of the category of overkill that overkill would be on Mars and this build would be on Alpha Centauri. Your friend does not need this kind of hardware. He'd be wasting money for the sake of wasting money.


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## 64K (Apr 27, 2021)

trparky said:


> For the memory, I'd go with G.Skill Ripjaws since they have slightly tighter timings and they're cheaper too. However, this build is overkill just for the sake of being overkill. Hell, I'd have to say that overkill doesn't even start to describe this build. This build is so far outside of the category of overkill that overkill would be on Mars and this build would be on Alpha Centauri. Your friend does not need this kind of hardware. He'd be wasting money for the sake of wasting money.



From time to time I have run across this kind of thread. It seems like the friend of the OP picked out really expensive hardware just because. I remember one thread about 5 years ago where a member wanted to build a rig with Quad SLI Maxwell Titans. He said he didn't want to have to touch it for 8 years to upgrade anything. Not only was Quad SLI a waste of money back then but imagine it now with SLI dead. He would be running on one card after spending around $5,000 on four of them.

I don't know why people believe in "future proof" for PC builds because there really is no such thing. There's nothing wrong with wanting to spend $5,000 on a rig but the smart way to spend that money is on a solid rig now and an upgrade 5 years from now. If he just wanted to spend $5,000 on a rig right now then there's nothing wrong with that either but he's trying to build a high performance gaming rig that will last 10 years.


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## AleXXX666 (Apr 27, 2021)

dirtyferret said:


> web sites like logical increments, tom's hardware, PCgamer, techspot among others always post various price point builds.  I would suggest checking them out and getting a ballpark idea of what the top gaming CPUs, GPUs, mobos, etc., are and start your friend's build from there.
> 
> FYI, your friend may actually get better performance and longevity by doing a $2.5k build now and in five years do another $2.5k build.


logical increments - it's ILlogical increments. their "build reccos" are just crazy. Switching price levels going too sharply, though stupid balance in building lol.



dragontamer5788 said:


> > Cooler Master V1300 Platinum 1300W Full-Modular
> 
> This is grossly overpowered. You probably can save several hundred $$$ by making a more natural 750W PSU instead. 1300 is probably needed for a cryptominer (or anyone who runs 3+ GPUs).  But even a high-end dual-GPU setup (which is already grossly unnecessary for most people) is going to struggle to use more than 1000W.


I'd recommend seasonic, evga or bequiet, lmfao.



Grog6 said:


> I have a friend that asks me to build him a new system every few years, as they get outdated. The last one worked for 10 years before we had to update the graphics card.
> He gave me a soft budget of $5k, I looked thru reviews and all, and came up with this list. I know video cards are unobtanium now, so this ignores that totally.
> Does anything on this list look Wrong?
> I can take a flaming. \
> ...


Threadripper Pro and... Intel 660p?

Also, I don't understand what the hell with RAM: where are you going to put these 12 sticks? Just get 4*16 config and machine is fine, no need to go for 8-channel, 4 is enough


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## kayjay010101 (Apr 27, 2021)

I'd swap the Intel 660p's immediately. Not that they're bad drives per se (I have one myself) but at over $200/TB they're about 2x what I paid for mine. For that price point (or close to it) you could get a PCIe 4.0 NVMe with a fantastic controller that'll blow the 660p out of the water in both performance and durability. Samsung 980 Pro, or it's OEM equivalent, the PM9A1, are great choices.

While the 3955WX seemingly must be a good CPU because it's expensive, it's really not meant for general computing or gaming. It's a workstation chip. A 5950X on the AM4 platform will cost about the same (if you go with one of the ~$1K mobo's, like MSI's Godlike or Gigabyte's Auros Extreme) and massively outperform the 3955WX in gaming and general computing. If you absolutely still need to piss away money, you could go with regular Threadripper which will be decent for gaming (not as good as the 5950X) and still be a big CPU that you can gawk at. But in that case, wait for the Zen 3 Threadrippers since they shouldn't be too far away and should be a large improvement on the Zen 2 TRs in the market right now.

Can I ask why there's two different sets of RAM? One 8x8GB and one 4x32GB? You can't use both at the same time. I'd recommend going with Samsung B-die if money is no object, so try to find a 3200-CL14-14-14 kit or 3600-CL16-16-16.

1300W is overkill, but hey, go big or go home. At least there's room for expansion  (and lots of it)
Though I'd recommend a different brand, CM is decent in the cooling space but I have no experience with their PSUs. Corsair and EVGA are trusted brands.

You're also missing a case, and cooling.

Honestly, I think you're always much better off going with a high-end ($2-3K) build today and another refresh 5 years from now. Look at anything from 10 years ago, it doesn't matter if you got an i7-2700K or an i5-2500K, both would be pretty terrible these days, the i7 might have lasted a year or two longer. And that's with about 3 years of stagnation taken into account. There really is no such thing as futureproofing, no amount of money can adequately compensate for technological progress. So your friend is better off going with what is admittedly about 98% of the way there with top-end parts, then putting the rest of the cash in a fund and withdrawing it for another build in another 5ish years.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 27, 2021)

After all the advice I wouldn't blame @Grog6 to just throw in the towel and order a pre built system for his buddy


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## X71200 (Apr 27, 2021)

There's a lot of bad advice in this thread. That system, as was said by a few others, makes NO sense for gaming whatsoever.

If you want to overkill it, again was pointed above, get a 5900X and match it up with a good GPU. That Threadripper and all its cores are meant for CONTENT CREATION, NOT gaming. You can build or buy a beast system with a solid GPU for well under $4.5k. Much more like $2.5k.


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## las (Apr 27, 2021)

It's pointless to try and futureproof like that. Nothing will last well for 10 years.

In 2022/2023, you will see next gen platforms from both AMD and Intel. DDR5, PCIe5.0 etc.

This platform will not last 10 years unless you accept that it barely will be considered mid-end for the remaining 5-6 years
It's not even true high-end TODAY for gaming. It's Zen 2 architecture.

Ryzen 5000 is the only one you should be looking at tbh, or Intel 10th/11th Gen (these will easily beat Zen 2 / Ryzen 3000 in gaming)

GPU?

It would make more sense to spend HALF the amount and get true high-end NOW, and upgrade in 5 years.

Ryzen 5800X/5900X
-or-
i9-10900K/10850K, or i7-11700K can work too. I would not bother paying extra for i9-11900K compared to i7-11700K, barely any difference in gaming.

+ 32GB RAM 3600/CL16 and a GPU of your choice


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## oxrufiioxo (Apr 27, 2021)

Yeah, for gaming even the 5600X will beat this system assuming all other components are identical a 5900X/5950X make way more sense and are likely to be usable longer for gaming than 3rd gen Threadripper..... If he just wants overkill for the sake of it wait for zen 3 based Threadripper.


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## dgianstefani (Apr 27, 2021)

$5k budget. 

$2k video card - 3080/ti founders/strix/suprim/tuf

5900/5950x

Noctua U12a

32gb 2x16 Trident Z 4266/16 tune to 4000/15 for 4000/2000 IF. 

Optane 905p 480gb for boot, 2tb 980 pro for bulk

Seasonic Prime TX850/1000

All case fans NF-A12x25 

Asus strix/msi ace/unify board.

Personally I would throw it under a full copper Waterloop just because you can. Optimus Waterblocks are very nice indeed.


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## X71200 (Apr 27, 2021)

Optane is pointless, the 980 Pro can already peak up to 100 in 4k which is close to what Optane does when Malwarebytes gimps it... and on the other QDs it can actually beat the Optane. Noctua fans are overrated as well, I'd stick with some other stuff. Other than that, rest should be fine.


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## las (Apr 27, 2021)

And yeah you need to replace those 660p's with WD Black SN850 or Samsung 980 Pro

And settle for 850-1000 watts PSU


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## dgianstefani (Apr 27, 2021)

X71200 said:


> Optane is pointless, the 980 Pro can already peak up to 100 in 4k which is close to what Optane does when Malwarebytes gimps it... and on the other QDs it can actually beat the Optane. Noctua fans are overrated as well, I'd stick with some other stuff. Other than that, rest should be fine.


Cool story bro.

I guess in your mind having an endurance rating in petabytes rather than terabytes, and a latency closer to ram isn't "worth it".


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## X71200 (Apr 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Cool story bro.



Yeah cool story, maybe educate yourself on the topic and stop suggesting a 480gb that drive that costs about $900 which is no longer produced out of a shut down factory. He can spend that money on peripherals and that would easily upgrade his experience over all.


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## dgianstefani (Apr 27, 2021)

980 pro is actually worse for endurance than the 970 pro.


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## X71200 (Apr 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> 980 pro is actually worse for endurance than the 970 pro.



An another drive would work and the 980 Pro actually gets similar latencies to the Optane in AS SSD. You don't know what you're talking about.


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## dgianstefani (Apr 27, 2021)

Ah the classic "educate yourself" such a strong argument lmao


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## X71200 (Apr 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Ah the classic "educate yourself" such a strong argument lmao



Because you're giving an awful advice, because he can spend that money towards monitors, fancy keyboards, mics whatever else and because you're at the point of spamming with these posts.


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## las (Apr 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> 980 pro is actually worse for endurance than the 970 pro.



I does not matter for consumers. I'd not consider 970 Pro for a second over 980 Pro. WD Black SN850 is even faster.


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## dgianstefani (Apr 27, 2021)

X71200 said:


> Because you're giving an awful advice, because he can spend that money towards monitors, fancy keyboards, mics whatever else and because you're at the point of spamming with these posts.


Ah the classic forum poster with surface knowledge of benchmarks. Hmmm. Wonder why enterprise loves optane. I guess they're all just clueless. 


las said:


> I does not matter for consumers. I'd not consider 970 Pro for a second over 980 Pro. WD Black SN850 is even faster.


Sequential read numbers are irrelevant for actual performance.


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## Frick (Apr 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Ah the classic forum poster with surface knowledge of benchmarks. Hmmm. Wonder why enterprise loves optane. I guess they're all just clueless.



Why would a gamer want enterprise solutions?


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## X71200 (Apr 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Ah the classic forum poster with surface knowledge of benchmarks. Hmmm. Wonder why enterprise loves optane. I guess they're all just clueless.
> 
> Sequential read numbers are irrelevant for actual performance.



Optane for enterprise goes up to 20TB with custom Lucid drives and so on. They custom order those things and it has nothing to do with your consumer usage. You're clueless and you're wrong. Enterprise using it has nothing to do with a gamer using it. I own both the drives and the Optane isn't magic as you think it is. Modern drives get close performance in other areas than sequential to it. They recently added a Full Power mode to the 980 Pro which boosts up its performance further. They shut down the factory because it wasn't profitable to the end user.


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 27, 2021)

Frick said:


> Why would a gamer want enterprise solutions?


Why would a gamer want to spend $5k on a system? Because they want the best.


----------



## las (Apr 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Ah the classic forum poster with surface knowledge of benchmarks. Hmmm. Wonder why enterprise loves optane. I guess they're all just clueless.
> 
> Sequential read numbers are irrelevant for actual performance.



I know but IOPS are way higher. Loading times are better. MLC is pointless outside of enterprise.

For a gaming rig, MLC is not needed at all. Waste of money. 970 Pro is more expensive than 980 Pro and SN850, yet slowest.

You only need MLC if you do tons of writes all day every day.










						Samsung 980 Pro vs 970 Pro: Which NVMe SSD is Best Value?
					

We put Samsung's newest 980 Pro PCIe 4.0 SSD against its own 970 Pro - and work out which NVMe SSD is worth going for in 2020.




					premiumbuilds.com
				



*"When it comes to specifications, the only advantage held by the Samsung 970 Pro lies in its double the TBW value of 1,200, versus the 600 of the Samsung 980 Pro. However, it is difficult to argue that the increased durability would warrant a $120 price increase for an SSD that is severely outperformed by its successor."

"970 Pro was outperformed by a substantial margin."*

So, yeah, pointless to buy a 970 Pro. OId tech. The new one is called 980 Pro for a reason. It's better. New controller, much faster, PCIe 4.0, cheaper = Nobrainer to get the newer one


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 27, 2021)

las said:


> I know but IOPS are way higher. Loading times are better. MLC is pointless outside of enterprise.
> 
> For a gaming rig, MLC is not needed at all. Waste of money. 970 Pro is more expensive when 980 Pro and SN850, yet slowest.
> 
> You only need MLC if you do tons of writes all day every day.


Man is keeping is pc for 5/10 years and you are talking about how storage endurance is worthless.


----------



## X71200 (Apr 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Why would a gamer want to spend $5k on a system? Because they want the best.



This is about as lame as your argument gets, $5k doesn't get you THE BEST, in fact the best is subjective. The best in keyboards, like the best mouse etc...


dgianstefani said:


> Man is keeping is pc for 5/10 years and you are talking about how storage endurance is worthless.



This was discussed earlier, and antic 830 Samsung drives last from 2012 to today. You have no clue. Just stop with these pointless posts.


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 27, 2021)

Watch out guys we have a badass over here


X71200 said:


> This is about as lame as your argument gets, $5k doesn't get you THE BEST, in fact the best is subjective. The best in keyboards, like the best mouse etc...
> 
> 
> This was discussed earlier, and antic 830 Samsung drives last from 2012 to today. You have no clue. Just stop with these pointless posts.


----------



## las (Apr 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Man is keeping is pc for 5/10 years and you are talking about how storage endurance is worthless.



Yes thats because it is. This is a gaming PC.

A TLC drive will easily last 10 years in a consumer PC.. WRITES are what causing tear, a gaming PC mostly READS.


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 27, 2021)

X71200 said:


> This is about as lame as your argument gets, $5k doesn't get you THE BEST, in fact the best is subjective. The best in keyboards, like the best mouse etc...
> 
> 
> This was discussed earlier, and antic 830 Samsung drives last from 2012 to today. You have no clue. Just stop with these pointless posts.


Ancient Samsung 830 drives are slc or MLC. Not like modern drives. There's a reason they last so long.

Maybe I should make a comment about educating yourself?


----------



## X71200 (Apr 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Ancient Samsung 830 drives are slc or MLC. Not like modern drives. There's a reason they last so long.



The 830 is not a SLC drive, Samsung does not use SLC outside of that specific PCI-E stick, which performs worse than Optane and costs just as much - and the MLC found in the 830 is nowhere as high endurance as the more modern MLCs. 

The 2TB 980 Pro was 1200 TBW, a gaming PC is not going to write that much in 5 years.


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 27, 2021)

X71200 said:


> The 830 is not a SLC drive, Samsung does not use SLC outside of that specific PCI-E stick, which performs worse than Optane and costs just as much - and the MLC found in the 830 is nowhere as high endurance as the more modern MLCs.
> 
> The 2TB 980 Pro was 1200 TBW, a gaming PC is not going to write that much in 5 years.


It's MLC with an SLC cache. The OP changes his system around every 10 years. 

Try again.


----------



## las (Apr 27, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Ancient Samsung 830 drives are slc or MLC. Not like modern drives. There's a reason they last so long.
> 
> Maybe I should make a comment about educating yourself?



They are MLC and probably worse than todays TLC.

You need to understand how SSD wear and tears works it seems. Just because it's MLC does not mean it will last 10 years. It depends on the usage. A TLC drive will easy live for 10-15-20 years unless you do tons of writes all day long, which you won't on a gaming pc

Samsung 830 had 3 years warrenty. Newer TLC drives have 5 years .. JUST LIKE 970 Pro


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 27, 2021)

Have fun arguing with each other about storage I'm going back to work.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 27, 2021)

Frick said:


> Why would a gamer want enterprise solutions?



Well, dude wants to keep it for 10 years.   Normal retail SSDs simply don't last that long.  My experience has been 2-5 years of life with SSDs.  

Honestly the build is lacking in multiple areas.   When I built mine one item high on the list for me was a backup drive.  You gonna keep a PC for a long time, and throw around 5K like it was nothing, I'd assume the person has and needs to keep their tax documents / house sale and purchase docs and so on.  Backup drive or NAS or something along with a backup strategy should be part of the build.


----------



## Grog6 (Apr 27, 2021)

Selaya said:


> This build is completely useless for gaming. You're building a Workstation here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 IDK about that; 4GHz, tons of threads; Depending on video card, it should rock. 


dragontamer5788 said:


> > Cooler Master V1300 Platinum 1300W Full-Modular
> 
> This is grossly overpowered. You probably can save several hundred $$$ by making a more natural 750W PSU instead. 1300 is probably needed for a cryptominer (or anyone who runs 3+ GPUs).  But even a high-end dual-GPU setup (which is already grossly unnecessary for most people) is going to struggle to use more than 1000W.


 It had the 8 pin power connectors; the mobo takes three, and so will the eventual video card.


----------



## X71200 (Apr 27, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> IDK about that; 4GHz, tons of threads; Depending on video card, it should rock.
> 
> It had the 8 pin power connectors; the mobo takes three, and so will the eventual video card.



You're not listening to the advice, are you?


----------



## Selaya (Apr 27, 2021)

Okay so here's a few facts about CPU gaming performance/bottleneck:
- In general, games only scale to about 8-16 threads at max; anything more like a TR is just wasted for gaming - they're for workstation productivity like rendering and shit.
- Max Frequency/boost matter, somewhat (more see the below) to a certain extent. TRs in general sacrifice a lot of that for their sheer core/thread count.
 - IMC performance & memory latency matter _a lot_ - that's the reason why Matisse and Rocket Lake both perform rather subpar - their IMCs are rather bad. In Rocket Lake's case that is actually a regression from the regurgitated-but-perfected Skylake platform! (That is also why CAS latencies matter for gaming, but not really for workstation.)

Given all of that, the 5950X is the absolute cap concerning cores you should go for because that is the highest mainstream part that doesn't sacrifice frequency for core count. (All TRs, EPYCs and Xeons do that btw.)


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Apr 27, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> IDK about that; 4GHz, tons of threads; Depending on video card, it should rock.



Your proposed 3955wx is Zen2, while the 5950x is  Zen3. Zen3 cores are 16% faster *at the same  clock speeds* (that means at 4GHz, Zen3 is 16% faster than a 4GHz Zen2). Except the 5950x isn't at 4GHz... its at 4.9GHz.

All together (both 22.5% higher clocks AND 16% more instructions per clock), Ryzen 9 5950x is probably 42% faster than the Threadripper 3955wx on single-threaded tasks. And to boot: the 5950x is cheaper. The only reason you'd go Threadripper Pro is if you knew you needed memory bandwidth and a buttload of PCIe lanes.

Even if we're only talking about dual GPU (which isn't a good idea anymore: single GPU is where the market has gone) and NVMe drives, I'm not sure if you're pushing enough I/O or Memory Bandwidth for the 3955wx to be faster.


----------



## Selaya (Apr 27, 2021)

I mean quite honestly 4.9GHz on Zen3 is quite unnecessary for gaming as you're not bottlenecked by that but by the IMC unless you spend like half a week to fine-tune your memory, maybe.
But yeah.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Apr 27, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> It had the 8 pin power connectors; the mobo takes three, and so will the eventual video card.



Motherboards don't take 8-pin power connectors. Motherboards take EPS connectors (which look like an 8-pin supply, but it isn't. EDIT: EPS is 4+4, while PCIe 8-pin is 6+2). Dual EPS will boot the motherboard. The *optional* 6-pin connectors on the motherboard are only really needed if you have multiple GPUs (which doesn't help in gaming anymore: no games support multiGPU anymore).

Multi-GPU is very niche. Cryptocoin miners want it, maybe deep learning developers want it. But its really, really hard for me to think of a typical consumer workload for it. You probably should ask your friend if they need multi-GPU. Otherwise, the money is better spent elsewhere.


----------



## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Apr 27, 2021)

This build is so wrong for everything general use and gaming, here's a better selection :

*CPU*: Ryzen 9 5950x
*Motherboard*: any quality X570 or B550 motherboard
*Storage* : WD Black SN850 PCIe4 Nvme 2TB SSD with a 4Tb HDD storage
*RAM*: Crucial Ballistix (2020) 3600mhz 32Gb (2x16) CL16
*PSU*: Seasonic TX 1000w 80plus titanium


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Apr 27, 2021)

$5k budget, I can build a gaming computer that is about as good as it gets, including a RTX 3090 at scalper prices. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LZMZmk


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 27, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> IDK about that; 4GHz, tons of threads; Depending on video card, it should rock.
> 
> It had the 8 pin power connectors; the mobo takes three, and so will the eventual video card.



The guy will get a sub-optimal user experience with older architecture like Zen 2 based Threadripper.  That would only make sense if he is going to run his PC doing rendering or some types of video editing / encoding and do so 90% of the time.

For a general use PC, frankly even a 4 core Tiger Lake would probably give a better experience due to its 1T performance.  Look at things like the web benchmark scores here at TPU.  People say that doesn't matter because 'fast enough', yet the most annoying things to me is waiting on for example a stock screener or TA chart to update.   

A 5950X is clearly the best bet for "future proofing" right now, for both gaming and general use.  

For that price point I would be looking for a 5950X and a good X570 with as current as possible connectivity, including Thunderbolt and USB 3.2 2x2 as well as 10Gbit ethernet.   I believe there is a "Creator" model board from ASRock that has that kind of future looking connectivity.


----------



## las (Apr 28, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> This build is so wrong for everything general use and gaming, here's a better selection :
> 
> *CPU*: Ryzen 9 5950x
> *Motherboard*: any quality X570 or B550 motherboard
> ...



You are right. Much better build for pretty much everything. I'd not get a HDD tho.


----------



## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> Motherboards don't take 8-pin power connectors. Motherboards take EPS connectors (which look like an 8-pin supply, but it isn't. EDIT: EPS is 4+4, while PCIe 8-pin is 6+2). Dual EPS will boot the motherboard. The *optional* 6-pin connectors on the motherboard are only really needed if you have multiple GPUs (which doesn't help in gaming anymore: no games support multiGPU anymore).
> 
> Multi-GPU is very niche. Cryptocoin miners want it, maybe deep learning developers want it. But its really, really hard for me to think of a typical consumer workload for it. You probably should ask your friend if they need multi-GPU. Otherwise, the money is better spent elsewhere.



Obviously you didn't look at the board.








						ASUS Pro WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI sWRX8 Extended ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.com
					

Buy ASUS Pro WS WRX80E-SAGE SE WIFI sWRX8 AMD WRX80 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI Extended ATX AMD Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				



I
I do know what the pinouts of all the pc connectors are I've done this for awhile.
The 3 connectors on the mobo are cpu/ mobo power  the 3 on the video card are for it's power. 


I've been reading reviews; there are a lot cheaper options available.
Hell; I could go a lot cheaper. That's really not what I had in mind.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> Obviously you didn't look at the board.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You don't need to go cheaper to get a better PC. You could easily get a very similarly-priced X570 board and actually get THE best gaming CPU like we've been telling you over and over.


----------



## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

I've been reading the thread; all I'm really hearing is that it's overkill.

 I like overkill.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I've been reading the thread; all I'm really hearing is that it's overkill.
> 
> I like overkill.



It's not overkill, it's the wrong tool for the wrong job.  It's like taking a Mack truck to the Indy 500.  Yes the Mack can pull 50,000 lbs at 75 mph, but in pretty much every other situation it's going to perform less than a dozen other choices.

A 5950X will be much faster for what a normal user will do with their PC, everything from web browsing to video games.  For that matter a RKL 11700K or 11900K or a 10900K would be better for a normal user.  You're going to wind up giving the guy a $5K rig that can be handily outperformed at 99.9% of what he will do with it by a $3000-$4000 preconfigured Dell Alienware with a 5XXX or 11XXXK and a 3080 or 3090.

I mean seriously, this right here, this will run circles around your Threadripper in everything except rendering and encoding.  And it's $1000 less, with a 3090.









						Alienware Aurora R12 Gaming Desktop | Dell USA
					

Powerhouse desktop with 11th Gen Intel® Core™ processors in a chassis designed for high-performance gaming and tool-less upgradability features.



					www.dell.com
				




Or this at $4800 / 5800X / 3090 / 128GB RAM :









						Alienware Aurora Gaming Desktop with AMD Ryzen 5000 Series Processors | Dell USA
					

High-performance gaming desktop with up to 16-core, overclockable AMD Ryzen 5000 series processors designed for gamers who create.



					www.dell.com


----------



## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

It's not like I'd ever recommend a dell system to anyone.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> It's not like I'd ever recommend a dell system to anyone.



That's my point.  You're building something that won't be as good as a Dell that actually costs less...


----------



## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

I'm definitely not seeing this. Specifics?

Dell computerd are for corporate systems; mobo thruput is terrible.

I experimented with a ton of their boxes; my scratch built systems reduced reconstructions to 10 minutes, compared to 4 hours for the dell, on the same 1tB dataset.
The dell choked on Crysis too. 

This is obviously the wrong place to ask questions, if you're recommending a prebuilt commodity computer. 

Thanks everyone!


----------



## kayjay010101 (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I'm definitely not seeing this. Specifics?
> 
> I experimented with a ton of their boxes; my scratch built systems reduced reconstructions to 10 minutes, compared to 4 hours for the dell, on the same 1tB dataset.
> The dell choked on Crysis too.


Specifics: 5950X is AT LEAST 30% faster than any threadripper on the market clock for clock, and is almost a whole GHz faster on top of that. That means the Threadripper is *worse* at gaming.
What you're doing is, as said above, using the wrong tool for the job. An axe is more lethal than a hammer, but you don't bring an axe to nail in wood, do you?


Grog6 said:


> Dell computerd are for corporate systems; mobo thruput is terrible.


Dell is marketed towards office, corporate and entry-level home computers, yes. Alienware is their gaming brand. Not that I'd recommend buying anything from Dell, the point is it's BETTER to buy a Dell for the usecase you've presented than to buy what you've laid out, and it's cheaper as well. 
And what does "Mobo thruput" mean? The motherboard only houses other components, it doesn't actually have anything to measure throughput on? Unless you're talking PCIe??



Grog6 said:


> I experimented with a ton of their boxes; my scratch built systems reduced reconstructions to 10 minutes, compared to 4 hours for the dell, on the same 1tB dataset.
> The dell choked on Crysis too.


The first paragraph seems like a WORKSTATION usecase, not a gaming one. In that usecase, a Threadripper obviously makes more sense.
And it choked on Crysis because it's a workstation... how many times does it have to be said: Workstations are good at work, gaming machines are good at games. That's why we have different, specialized, components in the first place!



Grog6 said:


> This is obviously the wrong place to ask questions, if you're recommending a prebuilt commodity computer.


They're not _recommending_ a pre-built, they're saying your build is worse than a pre-built. It's only a comparison.
We all recommend you get a computer actually suited for the task you've laid out (gaming)... which would be a 5950X-powered machine.


----------



## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

kayjay010101 said:


> Specifics: 5950X is AT LEAST 30% faster than any threadripper on the market clock for clock, and is almost a whole GHz faster on top of that. That means the Threadripper is *worse* at gaming.
> What you're doing is, as said above, using the wrong tool for the job. An axe is more lethal than a hammer, but you don't bring an axe to nail in wood, do you?
> 
> Dell is marketed towards office, corporate and entry-level home computers, yes. Alienware is their gaming brand. Not that I'd recommend buying anything from Dell, the point is it's BETTER to buy a Dell for the usecase you've presented than to buy what you've laid out, and it's cheaper as well.
> ...



You're saying a
3*.4 GHz Socket AM4 105W  processor will vastly outperform a  AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3955WX 16-Core 3.9 GHz Socket sWRX8 280W 100-100000167WOF Desktop Processor*​
 Sorry for rhe caps, it copied like that.

16/32 cores, faster, with 8 memory channels will have much more bandwidth to memory, and the 128 pci lanes allow some serious nvme and video card choices.

I've always found that gaming is best with lots of room to flow data, wide memory channels and good video cards with lots of bandwidth.

I'm beginning to wonder, lol.


----------



## dgianstefani (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> You're saying a
> 3*.4 GHz Socket AM4 105W  processor will vastly outperform a  AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3955WX 16-Core 3.9 GHz Socket sWRX8 280W 100-100000167WOF Desktop Processor*​
> Sorry for rhe caps, it copied like that.
> 
> ...


I can't tell which is bigger, your arrogance or your cluelessness.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> You're saying a
> 3*.4 GHz Socket AM4 105W  processor will vastly outperform a  AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3955WX 16-Core 3.9 GHz Socket sWRX8 280W 100-100000167WOF Desktop Processor*​
> Sorry for rhe caps, it copied like that.
> 
> 16/32 cores, faster, with 8 memory channels will have much more bandwidth to memory, and the 128 pci lanes allow some serious nvme and video card choices.


That is exactly what I'm saying. Let me break it down for ya.

Video cards are limited to 16 lanes no matter what, and the 5950X has that (and another 4 left over for the m.2 slot). So the bandwidth is identical on both platforms. That argument is null and void. 
The only thing is if you want more than one video card, but today's games don't support that anyway, so it's also a null and void point.

The 5950X is also 16 cores, actually. So they have the same amount of cores, while the 5950X is 16% faster in just raw IPC improvement and then another 0.6GHz faster on top of that. (max 4.3GHz vs min 4.9GHz, on paper)

Memory channels isn't relevant in gaming, we're talking less than a percent, if anything, going from dual channel to quad channel. Even less going to octochannel. Also, the downgrade in compatible memory (good luck getting 3600 CL14 to run in 8 channels) outweighs the positive in extra memory bandwidth. For gaming, latency is much more important.

The base clock is irrelevant. The 5950X boosts to 4.9GHz (in my experience, more than that, my 5950X boosts to 5.1GHz) on a single core and 4.4GHz on all cores. While the 3955WX boosts upto (and often not quite, since Zen 2 is advertised a bit too optimistically by AMD) 4.3 GHz (which equates to the same total speed as a 5950X running at 3.6GHz, because of the IPC improvement in Zen 3), and much less all-core. So it is *not* faster. In fact, it's a lot slower.



Grog6 said:


> I've always found that gaming is best with lots of room to flow data, wide memory channels and good video cards with lots of bandwidth.


Bandwidth is important, but latency is usually a lot more important. Wide memory channels makes very little difference nowadays (it seems your assumptions are vastly outdated), and any ,modern system will be able to deliver full bandwidth to any modern GPU, so that's not even a factor.


----------



## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

After looking at what's been recomended; I like what I posted even better. 
More bandwidth is always better, whether it's calc data or textures.

Finding a video card is going to be harder. 

FWIW; one of my buddies bought an intel 11k setup for ~3k, and it's slower than my 10yo socket 2011 system.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> After looking at what's been recomended; I like what I posted even better.
> More bandwidth is always better, whether it's calc data or textures.
> 
> Finding a video card is going to be harder.
> ...


Why even ask for help when you go directly against common sense? You're not even willing to understand and then just spew nonsense (no, your 2011-based system is NOT faster in gaming than even the cheapest 11th gen Intel processor). 
Why would anyone want to help you when you just dismiss everything logical? 
At this point you must be trolling.


----------



## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

This is obviously the wrong place to ask questions, if you're recommending a prebuilt commodity computer. 




I'm just  not seeing your logic.


----------



## FireFox (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> This is obviously the wrong place to ask questions, if you're recommending a prebuilt commodity computer.


Then you can ask to a Mod to close the thread.
Shame, lot of good advices but you don't want to listen


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Apr 28, 2021)

If your buddy is that willing to waste money on a cpu that would get smoked by a 300 usd one at gaming he/you should at least wait for Zen 3 based Threadripper.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> Obviously you didn't look at the board.
> 
> 
> 
> ...








You can tell that the 6+2 PCIe connector is different, because the "squares" and "curved" bits don't line up to the EPS 4+4 connector. Also, its documented as such in the pdf:



			https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketTRX4/Pro_WS_WRX80E-SAGE_SE_WIFI/E17525_Pro_WS_WRX80E-SAGE_SE_WIFI_UM_WEB.pdf


----------



## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

I'm not trolling; I'm looking for info. all I see is use this not that with no links to proof. I'd love to see a review of real hardware, but the ryzen pro is new.

I know the pinouts; I've swapped quite a few over the years. That's a LOT of power available for overclocking.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I'm not trolling; I'm looking for info. all I see is use this not that with no links to proof. I'd love to see a review of real hardware, but the ryzen pro is new.


Just order an HP Z series workstation and be done with it.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> You're saying a
> 3*.4 GHz Socket AM4 105W  processor will vastly outperform a  AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3955WX 16-Core 3.9 GHz Socket sWRX8 280W 100-100000167WOF Desktop Processor*​
> Sorry for rhe caps, it copied like that.
> 
> ...



Yes. Ryzen 9 5950x is beating Threadripper Pro 3955wx in many tasks.

Note that 5950x has a boost clock of 4.9 GHz. Zen3 is a huge jump above Zen2 clock-for-clock thanks to Zen3's far improved cache structure.









						Adobe After Effects - AMD Ryzen Threadripper PRO 3000 Series CPU Performance
					

AMD's new Threadripper Pro CPUs are here, combining many of the features from their Threadripper and EPYC CPU lines including increased memory and PCI-E capability. The amount of RAM you have available for After Effects is often critical, but is Threadripper Pro worth the cost in order to get up...




					www.pugetsystems.com
				








We're not kidding. The Ryzen 9 5950x is one of the best processors ever made. Furthermore, many tasks (even video rendering on Adobe After Effects) are not as multithreaded as you might think, and are unable to benefit from higher core counts.


----------



## FireFox (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I'm not trolling; I'm looking for info. all I see is use this not that with no links to proof. I'd love to see a review of real hardware, but the ryzen pro is new.


Then use Google ( Bar-search ) type reviews about the products/hardware you want to have info, also don't underestimate TPU's users, many of them have good knowledge about Building PCs.


----------



## dragontamer5788 (Apr 28, 2021)

EDIT: I think I misunderstood what was going on. See a later post for my conclusion. I'm editing out my original post.


----------



## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

Sorry guys; I'm not trying to troll; I'm looking for empirical evidence.

I was hoping someone would have some experience with this mobo/ processor combo.
I would expect a 3rd gen processor to be 20% faster. I'm thinking the next gen processors will probably use this socket, with the 8 memory channels.
the older gens kept the same socket for quite a while.

There are 3x 8 pin connectors that will require powering; thats a lot of power.


kayjay010101 said:


> Why even ask for help when you go directly against common sense? You're not even willing to understand and then just spew nonsense (no, your 2011-based system is NOT faster in gaming than even the cheapest 11th gen Intel processor).
> Why would anyone want to help you when you just dismiss everything logical?
> At this point you must be trolling.





FireFox said:


> Then you can ask to a Mod to close the thread.
> Shame, lot of good advices but you don't want to listen


My twin 7970 system is much faster than his cpu- based video  in gaming. 


I'm getting some value out of this; there were 2 links to helpful articles. 

Thanks for the input, everyone.


----------



## bogmali (Apr 28, 2021)

Lot's of good advise and also lot's of ego to go with it. If you are going to offer advise and your idea is not considered, don't get belligerent and start attacking back-kind off defeats the purpose. Also, you can argue your point about pieces or hardware but at no point you will be allowed to get into name-calling because your ego cannot take it. Thread cleansed and thread bans issued.

OP, LMK if you want this closed otherwise I will leave it be after I clear out the trolls.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Apr 28, 2021)

Even the fastest full on (not WS) Threadrippers get decimated in games and is sluggish as a browser CPU.

The only place it wins handily is rendering / encoding, and that is entirely due to more cores.    For pretty much everything else - web, games, even some more mundane / typical encoding tests like iTunes where only a few threads are used, even a $250 10700K will whip it.  

In other words, most of the time, your $5000 rig will get whipped by a $2500 rig.


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## dragontamer5788 (Apr 28, 2021)

FireFox said:


> That's pretty much trolling.



I gave the topic a review.

I'm under the assumption that my post was poorly timed. There was a joke said immediately before my post, so maybe @Grog6 was reacting to the joke and not my post. The "temperature" of this thread has risen, because other people are trolling and not being helpful. So I'll be a bit forgiving in this case and assume that things were just an unfortunate series of events + timing.


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## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

Randall flaggs' post is very very helpful; that gives me an evening of reading. 

I was not looking at pissing anyone off; I have no experience with modern AMD processors; personal experience is worth more than benchmarks.  

My experience in big systems was reconstruction of PET tomography images. What worked well for that always made a wonderful gaming system, even if it was overkill. 

At one time I had a 45 disk SCSI raid 0 array; I was able to replace it with a 2 disk SAS array that had better performance. 

Thanks everyone; I know more than I did when I started.

Next; I'll be starting a thread in video cards  (j,k)

lol, everyone knows there are no video cards. 

I have ran Crysis on a Dual 6-core xeon  system, with the game loaded in a ramdisk; load times were incredible!


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I've been reading the thread; all I'm really hearing is that it's overkill.
> 
> I like overkill.


In all honesty the lack of GPU's everywhere is what might keep you from finalizing that build. Unless you can stomach quad GT210's that is 
'Captain, I've built the best flying machine out there. One issue though, the flight deck is missing'


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## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

I've got a rx580 he can borrow until the pipeline refills.

We play crysis wars, fear, and Quake2 mostly, gaming, at 1080, mostly.
My buddy plays on my Trinitron G550; he likes the CRT monitor better.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I've got a rx580 he can borrow until the pipeline refills.
> 
> We play crysis wars, fear, and Quake2 mostly, gaming, at 1080, mostly.
> My buddy plays on my Trinitron G550; he likes the CRT monitor better.


Being the joker that I am (Bad habit) I would find a junk yard rig and present it to your buddy claiming the stores are out of stock of everything - permanently  

Joking aside, I just can't see these GPU being available for a long time unless Crypto crashes. And I can't see that happening soon.


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## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

I bought a few bitcoin on ~2015 for a purchase,and I really wish I'd emptied my bank account now. 


I'm going to show my buddy all the options; thanks for the arguing points. 
If I'm an arrogant bastard, it comes with the degree, lol. It's not personal.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 28, 2021)

A Nephew had to purchase a gaming pre build so he could get his hands on an RTX 3080. He waited months for stock to come it. It didn't happen


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## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

Hmmmm. I've got the 550, a 7970, two 5970's and three 4870's.

Is that going to work in crossfire?

Those 4870's made a power supply explode a couple of years ago, lol. They still worked! ( in another build, lol.


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## thesmokingman (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I have a friend that asks me to build him a new system every few years, as they get outdated. The last one worked for 10 years before we had to update the graphics card.
> He gave me a soft budget of $5k, I looked thru reviews and all, and came up with this list. I know video cards are unobtanium now, so this ignores that totally.
> Does anything on this list look Wrong?


No offense but it's kind of all wrong. No point to TR, doubly so on TR Pro unless one is producing something that pays money and plan to use up all them pcie lanes. And on the top of that it's going to be outdated in a matter of months literally as Amd is preparing TR4.

I built a 3970x last year and that one came out to 13K roughly or so... it cut render times 5x and thus increased billables a lot.


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## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

I'm thinking this socket will be used in the next processor generation; 4 memory channels helped nethalem a lot; I can't imagine 8.

When I bought this system it was a 3930k; now its a 1650xeon, running cool at 4.6Ghz.


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## thesmokingman (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I'm thinking this socket will be used in the next processor generation; 4 memory channels helped nethalem a lot; I can't imagine 8.
> 
> When I bought this system it was a 3930k; now its a 1650xeon, running cool at 4.6Ghz.


It won't help with anything since the owner won't be doing anything that even comes close to taxing it nevermind the rig isn't kitted up to even tax the drive subsystem. This is all candy floss.


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## Grog6 (Apr 28, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> It won't help with anything since the owner won't be doing anything that even comes close to taxing it nevermind the rig isn't kitted up to even tax the drive subsystem. This is all candy floss.



I agree completely. But, this is what he asked for; those pci lanes will be used by nvme m2 cards, most likely.

If nothing current taxes it, theres a few games coming I have hope for.


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## thesmokingman (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I agree completely. But, this is what he asked for; those pci lanes will be used by nvme m2 cards, most likely.
> 
> If nothing current taxes it, theres a few games coming I have hope for.


But what...? Two nvme isn't taxing anything either. I dunno.... shrugs I guess helping your friend throw money away is one way to help. Nothing taxes it... ugh there's a lot that will bring it to it's knees its just that the op looks like doesn't do anything along those lines so it's wasted. The 3955x is hella expensive but its only 16 cores. A 3960x will stomp all over it in threaded tasks you realize for slightly more cash... There's all sorts of ways to spend that money, better. Hell, a 5950x is faster than the 3955x...


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## dragontamer5788 (Apr 28, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> But, this is what he asked for; those pci lanes will be used by nvme m2 cards



You'll need better NVMe than Intel 660p if you actually want to push those PCIe lanes. 660p is 2GBps, there are plenty of 5GBps to 7GBps NVMe 4.0 cards out there. As currently planned out, a much cheaper and faster system could be configured.

I realize you're trying to leave some room for future upgrades, but NVMe / Storage is not very easy to upgrade (due to the necessity of transferring your Windows license to a new card and all that). Its probably better to make your storage correct from the get-go.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Apr 29, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I've been reading the thread; all I'm really hearing is that it's overkill.
> 
> I like overkill.


Its not that its overkill, the whole thing for gaming and general usage is WRONG !!!
i'v suggested a much better build on the level of everyone recommendations here, lets get rational and start from there alright ?
Threadripper is bad for gaming


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## Grog6 (Apr 29, 2021)

Thanks everyone for the replies; I spent hours looking over everything, comparing options, and I agree its vastly overpowered, and not at all what he was looking for.
I think I built a replacement for my current computer, instead of what he was looking for.
Can anyone point me to a good known setup that works well together, mobo memory, and chip?
I've now read how picky these processors can be about memory vendor.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Apr 29, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> This build is so wrong for everything general use and gaming, here's a better selection :
> 
> *CPU*: Ryzen 9 5950x
> *Motherboard*: any quality X570 or B550 motherboard
> ...


Here's my selection, got a handful of likes seems a lot agree its a better alternative for your friend


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## oxrufiioxo (Apr 29, 2021)

R9 5800X/5900X/5950X

Asus Crosshair 8/Aorus Master/MSI Unify for standard X570 ATX

If wanting eatx Aorus Extreme or Msi Godlike

3600 CL14 32GB is what I'd go with I've tested it on both my Aorus Master and Crosshair 8 Hero and it work's excellent on both with zen 2/3. 









						G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GTZN - Newegg.com
					

Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-32GTZN with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




The 10900k/10850k/10700k are super solid but overall perform about the same in gaming vs the Ryzen chips but lack full gen 4 support which I feel is a must on a system you want to last 5+ years

The 11900k is a total bust to me at it's $550+ usd price and the 11700k isn't appealing at $400 either.... Maybe if you throw a high end open loop cooling on one and run 5ghz memory but you could probably still do better with a 10900k/4400 mem/water..... 

The only rocket lake chip I have experience with is an 11500 I like it for budget ish builds and would recommend it over a 3600/3700X gaming build but anything more expensive than that I would take a 5000 chip of similar price over.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Apr 29, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> R9 5800X/5900X/5950X
> 
> Asus Crosshair 8/Aorus Master/MSI Unify for standard X570 ATX
> 
> ...


Oh Yeah Trident Z Neo are Great for AMD.
Motherboard if it was me i would picked Aours master or Msi Ace


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## oxrufiioxo (Apr 29, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Oh Yeah Trident Z Neo are Great for AMD.
> Motherboard if it was me i would picked Aours master or Msi Ace



I've used both the Ace and Unify in builds they are too similar to me to pay a premium for the ace unless you love the look of the ace and that's worth the general 60-70 price increase. I like the Master/Hero a bit more than the Unify/Ace but I may be biased since I own them


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## RealKGB (Apr 29, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> Well, dude wants to keep it for 10 years.   Normal retail SSDs simply don't last that long.  My experience has been 2-5 years of life with SSDs.


_laughs in Crucial M4 128GB at 90% health that is 11 years old_

CPU, 5900X or 5950X.
Motherboard, Crosshair VIII Hero/WiFi (if your friend wants integrated WiFi and/or Bluetooth).
RAM, at least 32GB of 3200 or 3600 C14.
Cooler, Liquid Freezer II 280mm or 360mm. Great performers for the price (plus they have VRM cooling fans).

I have no further recommendations than that - storage, case, power supply, and GPU (right now at least) is not my forte.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Apr 29, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I've used both the Ace and Unify in builds they are too similar to me to pay a premium for the ace unless you love the look of the ace and that's worth the general 60-70 price increase. I like the Master/Hero a bit more than the Unify/Ace but I may be biased since I own them


Well his friend wants "buzzword" build so a motherboard without RGB is blasphemy i would assume


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## Grog6 (Apr 29, 2021)

Thanks, all. I'm reading manuals for some of the recommendations. 

Personal experience is great to hear; I've tried to do the build from hell before.
I bought a KT7A raid board build that was never stable at any speed or combo of parts. 

The only thing I hate about ssd's is that when they throw that first error, they usually are unrecoverable; but that's the price for the speed.
I tried the freezer trick on one, lol.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Apr 29, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> Thanks, all. I'm reading manuals for some of the recommendations.


User reviews counts too, manuals always try to hide the flaws,but given the quality of the recommendations you won't have to worry about that


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## thesmokingman (Apr 29, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies; I spent hours looking over everything, comparing options, and I agree its vastly overpowered, and not at all what he was looking for.


Like I wrote before it's not vastly overpowered, it's only a 16 core cpu that is stupidly overpriced. And the kicker is that your friend would not be using anything that that chip is intended for so it's even more wasteful. The 12 and 16 core TR Pro chips are not powerhouses, they are for specific use cases liek the 5 guys in the world who demand a stupid high amount of pcie lanes.

And on topic of a longterm build, anything you build now is a dead socket and dead platform end thread.

We're in the middle of a major changeover to pcie5 and more importantly DDR5. Thus anything you build now will be yesterday's news next year. I'd also add that the top cpu today from AMD will not be the top next year given that AMD is throwing down IPC and threaded gains generation over generation that we have never seen before. Next year the 5950x will be 20%-30% slower than its Zen 4 replacement, easily.

You don't build a top end machine at the end of the platform's cycle. There'll be nothing to replace that cpu with down the line cuz you're already at the end fo the line.


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## Grog6 (Apr 29, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> Like I wrote before it's not vastly overpowered, it's only a 16 core cpu that is stupidly overpriced. And the kicker is that your friend would not be using anything that that chip is intended for so it's even more wasteful. The 12 and 16 core TR Pro chips are not powerhouses, they are for specific use cases liek the 5 guys in the world who demand a stupid high amount of pcie lanes.
> 
> And on topic of a longterm build, anything you build now is a dead socket and dead platform end thread.
> 
> ...


I agree; I usually end up buying at least one replacement CPU, and usually a few different video cards in the life of a computer.
I know all about eol memory; I was one of the idiots that bought into 32-bit RAMBUS.  They never made many>256MB memory modules, for a grand total of 512MB/pc being all that was available.
I figured eventually make some, or they would pop up on ebay, but no.

I read so many manuals yesterday that they're all blended together today, lol.


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## dragontamer5788 (Apr 30, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> I agree; I usually end up buying at least one replacement CPU, and usually a few different video cards in the life of a computer.
> I know all about eol memory; I was one of the idiots that bought into 32-bit RAMBUS.  They never made many>256MB memory modules, for a grand total of 512MB/pc being all that was available.
> I figured eventually make some, or they would pop up on ebay, but no.
> 
> I read so many manuals yesterday that they're all blended together today, lol.



The time for long-term buy was 2018 or so: when DDR4 was mature and transitioning to PCIe 4.0 was beginning to take place. But its now 2021: DDR4 is soon to be replaced and PCIe 5.0 will replace PCIe 4.0 soon afterwards. I'm not entirely sure if a replacement CPU for this generation / timing really makes sense.

It might be possible. Maybe if Zen4 or Zen5 remain DDR4 compatible for older motherboards... but its very likely that AMD will lock those new processors to DDR5-only.


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## Grog6 (May 1, 2021)

We were able to get together, and discuss options, and he's going to order one of the cheap "x79" mobos, and we'll build him a system out of my parts stash; I have a bunch of old stuff I've upgraded over the years.


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## Grog6 (May 30, 2021)

Well, guys and gals, I built this beast. 
I ended up with the 24core threadripper,and an asrock mobo.
It's incredible.
The asus AIO 360 keeps it cool even in handbrake


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (May 30, 2021)

Grog6 said:


> Well, guys and gals, I built this beast.
> I ended up with the 24core threadripper,and an asrock mobo.
> It's incredible.
> The asus AIO 360 keeps it cool even in handbrake


Thread ripper for gaming...

FAIL  

Should have bought him a 5950x, thread ripper have core latency issues which results in micro stutters in games, thread ripper are only good for workstation, rendering, and server builds, the moment gaming comes to mind get something else

This whole thing feels like a troll thread, you've disregarded every good recommendation from other members thinking you are mister know it all,and in the end the only one who got trolled was your friend, case you gave him a platform that was never intended for his use case at all  ( an almost end of life one too, cause its DDR4, DDR5 is by the end of the year ) and because of that there will be some performance nuances.

good job, man... i feel sorry for your friend


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## Kissamies (May 30, 2021)

Nothing to complain IMO, futureproofing is okay.


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## GorbazTheDragon (May 30, 2021)

lol


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