# Windows 8 'Irrelevant' For PC Users



## qubit (Dec 8, 2011)

Well, it looks like the Windows 8 flagship feature, the Metro interface, isn't going down too well with PC users, according to leading market research firm International Data Corp. On top of that, there aren't really any killer improvements in the operating system that make shelling out for a new version compelling. The Metro interface, while suited to a smartphone or tablet, really doesn't do anything for a desktop PC, because it's operation is very restrictive compared to the standard desktop that's been around for over 15 years on Windows and is now a very refined and sophisticated user interface. Also, the fact that many organizations have only recently migrated to Windows 7 and are not looking to spend money in the current economic climate and go through the pains of another upgrade cycle again isn't helping. The poor economy looks like it will hamper sales of Windows 8 on its target devices, tablets, too. Finally, IDC said: _"(T)here will be intense scrutiny on Microsoft's ability to deliver a successful tablet experience aboard both x86-based tablets and on devices running ARM processors. This is a tall order for Microsoft, and while the x86 tablet strategy makes sense as a transitional solution for today's PC users, it will be the ARM-based devices that need to shine and clear a high bar already set by Apple."_





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## kciaccio (Dec 8, 2011)

Agreed. I have been using the developers version in a virtual machine and it sucks so far.


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## pantherx12 (Dec 8, 2011)

kciaccio said:


> Agreed. I have been using the developers version in a virtual machine and it sucks so far.



You tried it non virtual?

I hear it's quite nice to use from other folk.


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## Delta6326 (Dec 8, 2011)

.......Why would anyone want a OS that looks likes the Xbox 360's or a windows phone on a computer?


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## qubit (Dec 8, 2011)

kciaccio said:


> Agreed. I have been using the developers version in a virtual machine and it sucks so far.



I tried using it without referring to any documentation and it drove me spare, as I couldn't get back to a proper desktop. Then I read up on how Metro is supposed to work and couldn't believe that it brings back full-screen single tasking apps to the PC. WTF Microsoft! I didn't bother with it after that.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Dec 8, 2011)

Ok, hating on this OS is just idiotic. All the shit everyone complains about can be disabled. You know what you're left with after that? A very efficient and full featured OS. Largely in part because of trying to work on arm based systems. This will be the first windows OS where I won't have to tweak the services for every scrap of performance on a netbook or when running benchmarks. Efficiency not your thing? Fine, can it and wait for windows 15 or w/e


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## pantherx12 (Dec 8, 2011)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> Ok, hating on this OS is just idiotic. All the shit everyone complains about can be disabled. You know what you're left with after that? A very efficient and full featured OS. Largely in part because of trying to work on arm based systems. This will be the first windows OS where I won't have to tweak the services for every scrap of performance on a netbook or when running benchmarks. Efficiency not your thing? Fine, can it and wait for windows 15 or w/e



Yeah this why I've been hearing good stuff, uses less ram, boots faster new UI stuff can be disabled.

I like the idea of dynamic icons like the tiles though, shame you can't mix and match UI elements, maybe in the retail version though.


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## qubit (Dec 8, 2011)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> Ok, hating on this OS is just idiotic. All the shit everyone complains about can be disabled. You know what you're left with after that? A very efficient and full featured OS. Largely in part because of trying to work on arm based systems. This will be the first windows OS where I won't have to tweak the services for every scrap of performance on a netbook or when running benchmarks. Efficiency not your thing? Fine, can it and wait for windows 15 or w/e



I know about the registry hack to turn Metro off and then indeed it works nicely. However, it looks like Microsoft doesn't intend the Metro interface to be turned off in the retail version, so we'll be stuck with it. Seriously, single tasking full screen apps only? Are they mad?


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## kciaccio (Dec 8, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> You tried it non virtual?
> 
> I hear it's quite nice to use from other folk.



It won't make a difference. Running it in a VM is exactly the same as using it as my main OS.


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## 20mmrain (Dec 8, 2011)

Duh .... Microsoft it took marketing to tell you this??? You have something good in Windows 7 if you wanna do something come out with Windows 7.5 or something exapnded on windows 7(like more service packs). Windows 8 with its metro style is great for people with All in One's, Tablets, Touch screen Net books, and phones.... but not for serious PC users. Not to mention its horrible real world features..... (i.e) closing down all applications with Task Manager or letting them run in the back ground until Win 8 deems it has been idle long enough to close.... This type of stuff is okay when you are surfing the web/Facebook or tweeting but not when you are curing cancer or gaming. I could also go one with it's bad features but I will spare you.
Finally I understand what Microsoft is trying to do.... Get the mobile market and Home PC's all on one big OS so everything can be universal.... But think about it.... if people really really wanted their PC to be like a Phone.... why wouldn't they just by a phone. You don't have to change the OS in order to make it compatible with everything.


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## bostonbuddy (Dec 8, 2011)

windows 8 was designed so you could have one operating system spanning your computer, consul, phone, tablet, car, brain implant, whatever.


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## AsRock (Dec 8, 2011)

Delta6326 said:


> .......Why would anyone want a OS that looks likes the Xbox 360's or a windows phone on a computer?



Yeah pretty much deceiving the idea of having a computer lol.  At least for now you can just turn that BS off  .


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## n-ster (Dec 8, 2011)

I have to agree that Windows 7 is the next Windows XP in that it will stay for more than 1-2 years for sure. However many businesses haven't bothered with windows 7 either :/

It is time to stop making programs that can supported by Windows XP and LOWER and start making them Vista and higher or Windows 7 and higher.

Logically Windows 8 is better than 7 and people who are still on XP can upgrade to 8, but I bet more will be going XP --> 7. Businesses have no real reason to go from 7 to 8 as that would cost them a lot of money and time for basically nothing


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## swaaye (Dec 8, 2011)

n-ster said:


> It is time to stop making programs that can supported by Windows XP and LOWER and start making them Vista and higher or Windows 7 and higher.


Not a good call when 80 gazillion people are using Windows XP. I don't mean gamer people, I mean non savvy people who buy software too. 

Microsoft will continue to make sure the latest Windows has exceptional backward compatibility anyway.


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## TRWOV (Dec 8, 2011)

I've been using the W8 Developer Preview for nearly two months. You can turn off the Metro interface and work on a desktop. 

Apart from a few non-vital apps, everything I've installed has worked right away. The start-up time is ridiculous small, almost like coming up from C3. I'm thoroughly impressed with it so far.


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## ..'Ant'.. (Dec 8, 2011)

Looks exactly like the new Xbox update.


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## Smilez (Dec 8, 2011)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> Ok, hating on this OS is just idiotic. All the shit everyone complains about can be disabled. You know what you're left with after that? A very efficient and full featured OS. Largely in part because of trying to work on arm based systems. This will be the first windows OS where I won't have to tweak the services for every scrap of performance on a netbook or when running benchmarks. Efficiency not your thing? Fine, can it and wait for windows 15 or w/e



agreed. working fast and stable for me.


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## swaaye (Dec 8, 2011)

Yeah I get the feeling that there are many angry ignorants who think the Metro interface is going to be jammed down their throat. Metro is for tablets, people. It's not going to touch the desktop interface that everybody uses for real, productive work.


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## n-ster (Dec 8, 2011)

swaaye said:


> The reason Windows dominates the desktop world is its backwards compatibility. That is why MS goes to such great effort to make sure Win 7 can run apps from Windows 98. If they change that stance they will kill themselves.



thing is that many programs work on XP don't on Vista or 7. I want programs to work on 7 god damn it!

I have to make a dual boot for my work so I can view the security cameras on Windows XP for example. I have to use Office 2003 so that my Accounting programs work... I want to use Windows 7 and Office 2010!

And for Microsoft's own good, it is time to kill Windows XP because it is hindering their sales, and it makes everyone program to make sure it works with XP too. By Windows 8 I really want XP dead so that the world can advance. By Windows "9" I want Vista dead too. That way everyone can be on Windows 7 and move the a new era

It will be 11 years in 2012 that XP exists... An OS shouldn't survive for more than a decade


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## kciaccio (Dec 8, 2011)

swaaye said:


> Yeah I get the feeling that there are many angry ignorants who think the Metro interface is going to be jammed down their throat. Metro is for tablets, people. It's not going to touch the desktop interface that everybody uses for real, productive work.



Then what is the huge benefit over win 7?

 My computer is on 24/7 so I could care less about boot up.

Memory is cheap so using slightly less is not a motivator to invest money in a new OS.

I won't be using metro, so what would make a win7 desktop guy want to spend money on 8?


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## AphexDreamer (Dec 8, 2011)

And this is the story of how Apple finally took the lead.


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## Steevo (Dec 8, 2011)

Lol, wut?


You can go back to your desktop, its one of the icons on the homepage, you CAN multitask, just like windows 7.




What they have added is app integration, and more common look and feel for idiots who think their Iphone is the greatest shit since shit on crackers came forth from the asshole os Steve Jobs. And the ability for more streamlined media use. Perhaps once the DRM cockblocks get out of the way they will have a fully featured way to access all your media as part of your personal space that extends beyond most peoples jerkoff station.


Sounds more like a crybaby journalist couldn't figure out a new Beta toy and got frustrated so they wrote a hate piece.


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## btarunr (Dec 8, 2011)

The first pre-release Windows 7 builds were just as 'irrelevant' to anyone who used Vista. It's only after beta and RCs that people started seeing the performance improvements.


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## kciaccio (Dec 8, 2011)

btarunr said:


> The first pre-release Windows 7 builds were just as 'irrelevant' to anyone who used Vista. It's only after beta and RCs that people started seeing the performance improvements.



I can see that being the case I guess.


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## mediasorcerer (Dec 8, 2011)

Nobody forces us to upgrade.

There are choices.


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## kciaccio (Dec 8, 2011)

mediasorcerer said:


> Nobody forces us to upgrade.
> 
> There are choices.



Ya they do...it's called not supporting the older version anymore.


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## bear jesus (Dec 8, 2011)

Steevo said:


> What they have added is app integration



I have to ask, wtf is that about? programs are integrated in to windows 8? what does that even mean?


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## Kreij (Dec 8, 2011)

Steevo said:


> Lol, wut?
> 
> You can go back to your desktop, its one of the icons on the homepage, you CAN multitask, just like windows 7.
> 
> ...



Lol wut?

So as a network administrator I have to shut off the the features of Win8 (if I choose to upgrade) because I don't need app integration, media use or social networking on my domain? how does that benefit me at all? Why would I even consider this OS for my work networks over XP or 7?

Given everything I've read on the OS and what I do on my own computer I don't see any real reason to embrace this OS at all.

While the OP does not cover all potential usage of the OS, I hardly see it as a hate/hit piece.


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## Poisonsnak (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm using the developer preview and loving it as well.  The new Task Manager and new file transfer dialog are great, it boots fast, and everything I loved from Windows 7 is still there.

If you do use any of the new metro apps the whole tombstone (suspend) thing takes a bit of getting used to, but the windows+tab task switching between them is kind of cool (or hold the mouse on the left side of your screen to get a preview of what you're switching to).  Doesn't work with legacy applications though.

A lot of the new metro style menus look great, and you can tell they would look great on any screen too, whether a 7" or a 70", fonts seem to be really well done.  If you use the metro control panel to change your desktop wallpaper the new image browser is pretty nice.

I'll admit I prefer a start menu over the "start screen", but start search still works just as before (looks different but same keystrokes), the only thing really bothering me right now is it seems like you need a mouse to shut down (the only way I've figured out how is by mousing to the bottom left, click settings, then shut down on the menu on the right.

Also a note to anyone trying it out on an AMD graphics card - the Win7 catalyst driver + CCC seems to work fine, the Win8 one does not come with CCC (or whatever it's called now) and if you manually install the Win7 CCC it does not work with the Win8 driver.


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Dec 8, 2011)

I could have told you this the second i laid eyes on the first screenshot. I dont know WHY they are calling this Windows 8.


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## jagjitnatt (Dec 8, 2011)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> Ok, hating on this OS is just idiotic. All the shit everyone complains about can be disabled. You know what you're left with after that? A very efficient and full featured OS. Largely in part because of trying to work on arm based systems. This will be the first windows OS where I won't have to tweak the services for every scrap of performance on a netbook or when running benchmarks. Efficiency not your thing? Fine, can it and wait for windows 15 or w/e



Ok. So I spend 150 bucks, and then disable all shit to make it what I am currently using?

I guess this what I'd term as idiotic. Spending on something that doesn't offer anything new to the users is plain nonsense.

Metro should have been on the Win8 Tablet edition or whatever they wanna call it. There should have been better improvements on the Windows 8 like an integrated App Launcher(QuickSilver for Mac), a newer UI(a usable one at that), a lighter WMP, an integrated download manager, a built in dictionary, a hardware monitor, etc etc etc.

Only good thing about Windows 8 is its Memory usage as of now.


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## Super XP (Dec 8, 2011)

Windows 8 was suppose to be a major step forward and a complete re-design. Anyhow I havent used it yet so I will wait before I pass judgement.


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## bostonbuddy (Dec 8, 2011)

Kreij said:


> Lol wut?
> 
> So as a network administrator I have to shut off the the features of Win8 (if I choose to upgrade) because I don't need app integration, media use or social networking on my domain? how does that benefit me at all? Why would I even consider this OS for my work networks over XP or 7?
> 
> ...



Windows 8 will prob have a corporate version already like that, aka windows 7 w/ faster boot times.  Its so when your supposed to be working it'll be easier to download a couple movies off your computer at home onto your smartphone to watch.


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## DannibusX (Dec 8, 2011)

I dunno.  I'm kind of excited to see what features Windows 8 brings to the table.  Microsoft is obviously spreading their influence around the whole home now.  It looks like Win8 is going to be run on a plethora of devices, including PC, Xbox, Mobile and possibly others I can't think of.  I'm pretty excited to think of what all of this will mean.

If it's easy to network all of your devices in your home, say stream from your PC to your TV over the Xbox, keep your phone up to date and synced while at home and even integrate better with Ford's Sync (Microsoft!) it could be a really, really cool thing.  I'm sure the RC of Win8 will have options to disable Metro during installation.  Relax, kick back and see what the future holds, people.


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## AshesOfThePlope (Dec 8, 2011)

that screenshot looks awful...literally looks just like the most recent xbl update minus the green/white 

but this is actually good news to me because i feel like windows 7 with stable enough to stick to for a long time like i did with XP


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## kid41212003 (Dec 8, 2011)

I can't wait to use Windows 8 .


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## MikeMurphy (Dec 8, 2011)

Windows 8 interface appears to be for average consumers - not techies.

Its a step in the right direction.

[On a seperate note, I think Win7 will be a favorite for enthusiasts for a long time to come]


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## djcl.ear (Dec 8, 2011)

Two scenes:
-A couple of days ago, a friend asked me to send him a text message. Seconds later, a _very natural voice_, reads out the written message. No robot or virtual nuances, just a voice with perfect diction.
-On another meeting I witness how several adolescents take turns to compete on a Kinect dance game. The interesting part is how their moves are remotely tracked and how they remotely select options to navigate menus with simple hands/arm movements.

I certainly expect Windows 8 to allow for physical remote controlling most of the programs I use, and to integrate that with voice recognition/control (the way parrot nowadays does in cars). I'd like to walk around my office while dictating whatever I'd like to write and also permitting fast internet navigation... freed from a mouse or a keyboard. 

Team those long promised advances with already ubiquitous touch commands... and then customers will have the URGE to move to Windows 8 for use at the office, homes and most everywhere really.
If Microsoft and Intel are not already heavily investing their best techs and big money in this, they'll soon be losing the race.

Those three new controlling ways (remote, voice, touch) are defining big advances already coming out... and are going to drive those firms who want to be part of the enormous technological and scientific change taking place in most any area.
(Did anyone saw the remote controlling teamed with holograms recently shown?)

Ok, possibly at 2012 Windows 8 wont provide all these functions, but I hope it lays the needed basis, so I am able to later buy Kinect 2 plus install the able GUI upgrade, all into an OS that does it efficiently from start.

I already run on W7 64 bits and if Microsoft don't deliver this time. Apple or Android surely soon will... Everyone really, the only real remaining question is time, When?
W8 sales and adoption rates will depend much on the answer to this question.


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## simlariver (Dec 8, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> And this is the story of how Apple finally took the lead.



Nope. Actually, the Apple side have been complaining about the "tablet-isation" of the OSX echosystem. Apple is bringing sandboxing and heavy restrictions to what softwares can access. There are also talks of an OSX appstore becoming mandatory for ALL software installs.

NOt bashing anyone here, but the traditionnal "workstation" desktop for powerusers is a declining trend, including games.


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## Goodman (Dec 8, 2011)

I don't care about Windows 8 yet...

I usually wait about 1 years when a new windows comes out in the market before i buy one , i always wait for the patch/SP1 or bugs to get fix which take M$ about 6 months to a year to get it right or more stable & all...
So for me no windows 8 until 2013 

One thing that bugs me is... why still make a stupid 32bit OS , WHY???

If we want to have real progress in 64bit software & games it would be time to "enforce" that buy making 32bit OS obsolete , time to move on.. IMO


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## Steevo (Dec 8, 2011)

Kreij said:


> Lol wut?
> 
> So as a network administrator I have to shut off the the features of Win8 (if I choose to upgrade) because I don't need app integration, media use or social networking on my domain? how does that benefit me at all? Why would I even consider this OS for my work networks over XP or 7?
> 
> ...





bostonbuddy said:


> Windows 8 will prob have a corporate version already like that, aka windows 7 w/ faster boot times.  Its so when your supposed to be working it'll be easier to download a couple movies off your computer at home onto your smartphone to watch.





DannibusX said:


> I dunno.  I'm kind of excited to see what features Windows 8 brings to the table.  Microsoft is obviously spreading their influence around the whole home now.  It looks like Win8 is going to be run on a plethora of devices, including PC, Xbox, Mobile and possibly others I can't think of.  I'm pretty excited to think of what all of this will mean.
> 
> If it's easy to network all of your devices in your home, say stream from your PC to your TV over the Xbox, keep your phone up to date and synced while at home and even integrate better with Ford's Sync (Microsoft!) it could be a really, really cool thing.  I'm sure the RC of Win8 will have options to disable Metro during installation.  Relax, kick back and see what the future holds, people.



Tada.


NFD, and further integration into making your life easier doesn't sound good?


Many other companies are looking for the integration solution. Google search maps to a new restaurant and have it appear in your phone as you leave, and it automatically starts playing the music where you left off at home by streaming it across the net over your car stereo, while getting traffic and weather updates for your route, while the baby sitter watching your kids gets shut down from watching more adult oriented content?

Or how about you shutoff the Xbox as your kids try to play games and are up too late as it links to the desktop across the network and their home profile has enforced media and time restrictions? 


Memory is getting larger on phones and other mobile devices, but data is getting larger too. 32GB doesn't go as far as it used ti with 1080 video, and 8MP cameras, but auto sync across the net or wireless or any access point to your home computer and not only do you have a backup, but also access, and now add the cloud as a smart most frequently used item backup/storage/personal share point?



All the things that are going to happen, and almost everyone wants it to happen, but its just who gets there first, and who does it best.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 8, 2011)

MikeMurphy said:


> Windows 8 interface appears to be for average consumers - not techies.
> 
> Its a step in the right direction.
> 
> [On a seperate note, I think Win7 will be a favorite for enthusiasts for a long time to come]



Considering they finally made it boot and load programs as quickly as 98SE did on an Athlon Machine. (XP was never as fast as 98SE, Vista is worse than XP) Tell You the truth MS should just do minor updates instead of SPs, aka Windows 7.1 .2 etc and keep major releases to solid Numbers.


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## pantherx12 (Dec 8, 2011)

I want to install windows 8 but I can't be bothered to reinstall my programs.

Is there a way to shift my C drive programs to my E drive and then automatically transfer them back to C when I have windows 8 installed?


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## djcl.ear (Dec 8, 2011)

Just a few hints.
"Notebook makers plan to employ touch panels for ultrabooks to accommodate new features in Windows 8" 
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20111207PD204.html

"Although Microsoft has not yet fully released its plans for image formats in Windows 8, the company's recent acquisition of Skype is expected to become an important part of the new ecosystem as the company might expand the connection from smartphone to living room televisions through the new operating system
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20111207PD220.html


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Dec 8, 2011)

MikeMurphy said:


> Windows 8 interface appears to be for average consumers - not techies.
> 
> Its a step in the right direction.
> 
> [On a seperate note, I think Win7 will be a favorite for enthusiasts for a long time to come]


Windows 7 is the new XP.


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## Steevo (Dec 8, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> I want to install windows 8 but I can't be bothered to reinstall my programs.
> 
> Is there a way to shift my C drive programs to my E drive and then automatically transfer them back to C when I have windows 8 installed?



The releases during the dev fair and windows 8 fair we were encouraged to install right over windows 7 X64 and everything would work the same minus a few programs that they weren't going to allow or that didn't have a digital signature. 


We even had access to MS engineers for the install and during install and testing for 3 days. Almost all windows  drivers work, except a few for me like CCC drivers didn't want to play nice with my custom BIOS and afterburner. I didn't spend alot of time with it, just enough to learn it and give feedback, then a bit of testing some apps they were working with.


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## pantherx12 (Dec 8, 2011)

Steevo said:


> The releases during the dev fair and windows 8 fair we were encouraged to install right over windows 7 X64 and everything would work the same minus a few programs that they weren't going to allow or that didn't have a digital signature.
> 
> 
> We even had access to MS engineers for the install and during install and testing for 3 days. Almost all windows  drivers work, except a few for me like CCC drivers didn't want to play nice with my custom BIOS and afterburner. I didn't spend alot of time with it, just enough to learn it and give feedback, then a bit of testing some apps they were working with.



Really right over the top?


Hell I'm more than tempted now! One more thing, is the windows 8 dev preview anything like the windows seven leaks and I need to download new versions or will it update it's self?

As I downloaded the preview as soon as it came out I just never got round to doing it


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## Steevo (Dec 8, 2011)

Mine updated, you can't rollback though, and depending on what you have for a key or release it will only work for 6 months or a specific date where it will just shutoff. 


Much like the Windows 7 betas there will probably be some hacks so you can get your stuff off, but there isn't the possibility to upgrade from the BETA to RTM or retail versions planned. So a clean install will have to be done later.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 8, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> I want to install windows 8 but I can't be bothered to reinstall my programs.
> 
> Is there a way to shift my C drive programs to my E drive and then automatically transfer them back to C when I have windows 8 installed?



Every program puts an entry or several into windows registry when it gets installed, aka basically a Program ID. If Windows OS could autosync and auto populate other drives without having to install programs again that would be awesome.


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## Steevo (Dec 8, 2011)

eidairaman1 said:


> Every program puts an entry or several into windows registry when it gets installed, aka basically a Program ID. If Windows OS could autosync and auto populate other drives without having to install programs again that would be awesome.



Many do.


I finally moved away from Vista X64 as my primary OS when I upgraded to my SSD drives and I moved all my steam games and many other programs to the 6TB drive and simply double clicked the exe and if they were missing stuff they either downloaded it from the net or used the existing files to correct their installation, and even a quick copy of my personal folders resulted in all my savegames being present (almost). Steam and Origin should backup your savegames dammit.


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## pantherx12 (Dec 8, 2011)

eidairaman1 said:


> Every program puts an entry or several into windows registry when it gets installed, aka basically a Program ID. If Windows OS could autosync and auto populate other drives without having to install programs again that would be awesome.



Ahh the duality of the registry system 

Love it when fiddling/haxoring but hate it for having to install stuff over and over.


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 8, 2011)

There is reason for me to upgrade to it the improved system management i run the DP on my media center when copying/moving/deleting files windows will group all commands into the 1 task instead of having a lot of windows open.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 8, 2011)

a Program should be fully self contained within its own file folder, n only put entries in registry as a ID and then a means to uninstall it from Windws Uninstall. if you move say a secondary HD that has all ur programs on it, windows should automatically sync the drive with those IDs and means to uninstall plus the files needed in the OS to work right (if a program needs to install files on the OS drive itself)


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## Liquid Cool (Dec 8, 2011)

Windows 8?  Cool...now you can be monitored, tracked...and sold worthless goods to with better efficiency than before.  I'll be the first to stand in line for my copy.  I better get the tent ready - just in case.



Mint's a pretty good flavor.

Liquid Cool


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## jagjitnatt (Dec 8, 2011)

simlariver said:


> Nope. Actually, the Apple side have been complaining about the "tablet-isation" of the OSX echosystem. Apple is bringing sandboxing and heavy restrictions to what softwares can access. There are also talks of an OSX appstore becoming mandatory for ALL software installs.


I don't see that happening. What Apple is doing is fetching the best features of iOS and implementing in OS X. Eg: LaunchPad. Its a great feature, allows you to access all your programs with a single mouse click.
The Apple mouse is touch sensitive, so it allows all sorts of gestures to be used. Implementing that in OS X is brilliant. But OS X is still very different from the iOS. There are no restrictions as you mentioned. I've been using using OS X Lion, Windows 7 and Ubuntu 10.04 on my PCs.


simlariver said:


> NOt bashing anyone here, but the traditionnal "workstation" desktop for powerusers is a declining trend, including games.



Sort of. But I think the OS X and Linux platforms are still good for the traditional desktop. What Microsoft should do is release different versions for different purposes. Tablet edition for Tablets, Desktop version for Desktops and Server editions for Servers.


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## bostonbuddy (Dec 8, 2011)

don't forget you may want to use the metro style when using gesture controls w/ ur kinect hooked up to your htpc.


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## Drone (Dec 8, 2011)

I like 8 with all its optimizations and faster loading/booting.


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## laszlo (Dec 8, 2011)

n-ster said:


> It will be 11 years in 2012 that XP exists... An OS shouldn't survive for more than a decade



a good OS will and even more...not everybody on the planet had latest gen PC's in fact i think up to 20% are still using P-2-3 machines and poverty is not people's fault..


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 8, 2011)

laszlo said:


> a good OS will and even more...not everybody on the planet had latest gen PC's in fact i think up to 20% are still using P-2-3 machines and poverty is not people's fault..



ya to extent its government mismanaging money. Any version of windows i wouldnt recommend running without 1 Gig of memory (Excluding Vista which requires just 4 to run decent...)

if Upper Govt Officials- President, Congress, HORs would take a 5-10% cut in pay or have part of what they make put to lower pay brackets n certain pensions they have removed after they are promoted etc n not a separate pension for every promotion. Get rid of the universal healthcare system (had no money to begin with) Stop worrying about supporting other nations and help ourselves first before helping anyone else. Its odd- there used to be a Working Class, those who could afford Cost of living but without excess and not worry too much about making ends meet. now there is just Rich and Poverty. Very sad Govt and Free Enterprise.


----------



## Rhyseh (Dec 8, 2011)

Kreij said:


> Lol wut?
> 
> So as a network administrator I have to shut off the the features of Win8 (if I choose to upgrade) because I don't need app integration, media use or social networking on my domain? how does that benefit me at all? Why would I even consider this OS for my work networks over XP or 7?
> 
> ...



You already have to do a butt load of configuring when you build an SOE anyway, changing a desktop setting will add a few seconds of building an SOE if that. Complaining about having to turn things off in a corporate environment is pretty silly seeing as any Sys Admin worth their salt would turn all the unneccessary shit off anyway (which both XP and 7 have).

The better resource management alone makes it worth the upgrade I know a few engineers at work who would probably love to have a faster system without having to buy new hardware...

Any one who works in the corporate world now will understand the demand from the user base for mobile devices. Some organisations have gone out and purchased such devices as iPad's, however we all know that an iPad is not designed for business and provides a challenge for Systems Administrators to integrate. Windows 8 is a solution for the customers demands for tablet and mobile devices, while still being easily managed, without having to spend significant dollars on upgrading the back end. From a business perspective Windows 8 makes alot of sense. Instead of laptops mobile users could have the choice of a tablet running Windows 8 with a dock at work and a 4G SIM in the back connected into a corporate APN. A tablet on the go with everything you need a touch away and a fully functional PC when docked.

Windows 8 will likely herald an explosion of integrated tablet devices and phones to the corporate world. Combine this with a seamless home integration of Microsoft products and Microsoft market share increases.


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## Quantos (Dec 8, 2011)

Well, it's irrelevant because of the UI. Other than that, if the performance upgrades are decent, it can be a good OS. I think the mistake being made here is that the Metro UI shouldn't be a default UI. It should be the other way around: by default the UI is the usual Windows UI, but if you want to use Metro, you can switch to it. Of course, that doesn't make much sense in terms of marketing... "Yes, we have created this brand new, fantastic UI... but we don't use it by default". 

Even better, the UI could be selected depending on the device used. By default, tablets should use Metro and PCs should use the Windows UI. After all, for tablets, Metro does seem quite nice. 

One could argue that if a user is bothered enough by Metro, he/she will probably know that it can be deactivated, but that's not really something you want for an OS. By default, it should be optimal, and though that's subjective, as some people will probably be quite content with Metro, I just don't see it being a step forward  in terms of productivity, and management for admins. Also, if we consider that a lot of people that use Windows products are employees that are given a computer at work, that's not really people you want to piss off. People that see the product at work and find it annoying to work on will not be tempted to buy it for their home use, even though it could probably be better for a home computer than a work computer. That said, I'll grant that it's rather unlikely that a company computer would get the upgrade to Windows 8 before a home computer.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 8, 2011)

I felt the same with running Office 2003/2007 friggin confusing and annoying, Office 97 with 98 updates and office 2000 were very easy to use and navigate to find what you needed.


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## Rhyseh (Dec 8, 2011)

Quantos said:


> Also, if we consider that a lot of people that use Windows products are employees that are given a computer at work, that's not really people you want to piss off. People that see the product at work and find it annoying to work on will not be tempted to buy it for their home use, even though it could probably be better for a home computer than a work computer. That said, I'll grant that it's rather unlikely that a company computer would get the upgrade to Windows 8 before a home computer.



Sadly how annoying an OS is to use in the work place usually has nothing to do with the OS itself but the applications, how the OS is implemented and ludicrous ICT policies that many companies IT departments use/enforce. I have seen many companies butcher their SOE and make their employee's "IT Experience" as irritating and inefficient as possible (mainly in government entities). On the flip side I have also seen some very good implementations where the IT management actually recognise that the end user experience is important, thus easy to use SOE's are born.


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## Mussels (Dec 8, 2011)

kciaccio said:


> Then what is the huge benefit over win 7?
> 
> My computer is on 24/7 so I could care less about boot up.
> 
> ...



support for new CPU instructions, like the ones benefitting bulldozer CPU's, for one.

its new memory management will allow it to do the same with less memory for better multi tasking as well.

i've already seen lots of improvements to the mobile features, such as the ability to tell windows to go 'low bandwidth' on certain internet connections and not others - so you can tell it to update away while at home, but use minimal data on your 3G/work internet, for example.


people need to realise that software updates (and new versions of windows) rarely have anything to do with performance. its features, or improvements to existing features.


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## ice_v (Dec 8, 2011)

kciaccio said:


> Then what is the huge benefit over win 7?
> 
> My computer is on 24/7 so I could care less about boot up.
> 
> ...



Finally some common sense! And pretty good question to go along with it too

I use my pc mostly for gaming...got a good rig for excellent gaming on a 1680x1050@120Hz monitor (no 3D, just over 60fps gaming ). Upgrading to Win7 bit64 from xp 32bit was most definattly worth it and I know I'm not talking smack when I say I'm more expert than the average pc user...though I still can't find a reasonable motivation to upgrade. I guess I'll leave that to entusiasts... those guys who jerk off in front of bench numbers and the wizzards of the liquid nitrogen to which I humbly bow in respect


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## LiveOrDie (Dec 8, 2011)

kciaccio said:


> Then what is the huge benefit over win 7?
> 
> My computer is on 24/7 so I could care less about boot up.
> 
> ...



spend money nar never just dl for free


----------



## Quantos (Dec 8, 2011)

Rhyseh said:


> Sadly how annoying an OS is to use in the work place usually has nothing to do with the OS itself but the applications, how the OS is implemented and ludicrous ICT policies that many companies IT departments use/enforce. I have seen many companies butcher their SOE and make their employee's "IT Experience" as irritating and inefficient as possible (mainly in government entities). On the flip side I have also seen some very good implementations where the IT management actually recognise that the end user experience is important, thus easy to use SOE's are born.



True, true, for the end user, the policies are what matter most, but remember that we're not talking about tech-savvy users necessarily. I recall the ribbon in Office 2007 bringing itself quite a lot of hate from users who were accustomed to the way Office 2003 worked, and who didn't want to learn something completely new. The quality of the new solution isn't necessarily at fault; for all we know, Metro _might_ turn out to be a good productivity environment. What's to blame for the hate is the simple fact that people don't like change, sometimes even if the new solution is better. Now, add to that the policies and you end up with a UI that the user has never seen, which is restricted, sometimes as you said heavily. That's not a good productivity cocktail.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 8, 2011)

bostonbuddy said:


> don't forget you may want to use the metro style when using gesture controls w/ ur kinect hooked up to your htpc.



someone paying attention to news and adds. microsoft are already showin the world its new ui on every advert blending it into the phsyci , and coincidentally kinect for pc is out a similar time as win8,imho making kinect useable on a desk looks to have been a thought with metro

ive had win8 as a second boot a while and while initially anoying it ends up being win 7.5ish without metro ,i liked all the slight changes to copying files and what not, so id say it wouldnt offend a vista or win7 user to much, but damn xp owners are Not gona like it theyll spend 3 days trying to find the control panel

i look forward to their attempts to get us all to buy win 8 tho bit much poss

give up with the xp no way is that shit still doin anyone using it any favours


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## digibucc (Dec 8, 2011)

i got teared a new one for suggesting it was anything short of brilliance on our thread here when it was first released - and that's really all i said. for desktop pc users it only adds complication, and does nothing really better. i did like the task manager & file copy, though that's a little late coming, i use third party software for both of those now.


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## Static~Charge (Dec 8, 2011)

swaaye said:


> Yeah I get the feeling that there are many angry ignorants who think the Metro interface is going to be jammed down their throat. Metro is for tablets, people. It's not going to touch the desktop interface that everybody uses for real, productive work.



Maybe people have that opinion due to their Microsoft Office experience. Microsoft changed the Office suite from pull-down menus to the ribbon bar in the 2007 release. Many people complained loudly about the jarring change of interface, and Microsoft blew them off ("It's an improvement, trust me!"). That sort of behavior doesn't inspire confidence.


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## newtekie1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Honestly, I'd still be using Vista as my primary OS if I didn't get Win7 free from my Microsoft partnership.  People say there are performance improvements, but they aren't really noticeable, and they aren't worth shelling out any money.



pantherx12 said:


> Ahh the duality of the registry system
> 
> Love it when fiddling/haxoring but hate it for having to install stuff over and over.



No one is actually forcing program developers to use the registry.  I've seen plenty of programs that never touch the registry, all their configuration is done via a file either in the directory with the program or generated in some other place(like Documents or Roaming etc.).

Everyone that wants to complain about the registry needs to talk the software developers that are creating the programs.


----------



## Steevo (Dec 8, 2011)

The registry is just a one stop shop for system wide alterations, some are needed most are not. 



I actually bought my own copy of 7 as I didn't like the new partner terms and conditions, specifically the part where any and all software you get through partner channels they can force you to remove, or revoke the keys for at any time. I have been getting other hard copy software that I sell, or uhh trade...... since it is NFR.


Windows 8 will be like Vista in the aspect that people will need to get used to it, it is poised to be the next vista if MS pulls the same stunts they did by throwing out features in order to get it finished on time. The difference between Vista SP1 and 7 RTM was enough to make most people move, and even have MS give away free upgrades. really the issues that plagued Vista were due to lazy manufacturers that didn't bother writing drivers, or writing good drivers and software for it. I had my copy for at least 16 months before it hit the market, and if a company can't get off their ass and write a few MB of good code to at least get started in that timeframe they have issues unto themselves.


----------



## Ahhzz (Dec 8, 2011)

btarunr said:


> The first pre-release Windows 7 builds were just as 'irrelevant' to anyone who used Vista. It's only after beta and RCs that people started seeing the performance improvements.



I can see that being the case... of course, I can also see the case where the numbers of people who were actually licking a cow pie...err... "using vista" I mean, were so ridiculously small compared to the XP users, that argument really kinda falls short....


----------



## johnnyfiive (Dec 8, 2011)

All the people complaining need to realize the Windows 8 you're previewing is the DEVELOPER PREVIEW. Which clearly means, its for developing and testing apps for the Metro UI. If you don't like it, just disable it. If you're using the Windows 8 dev preview thinking it will be a 100% awesome stable OS, get real. It's a *preview*. This isn't even a real beta yet. The majority of non-developers are complaining because they don't realize this isn't a complete OS. Metro isn't for the general desktop users. It's for touch devices.


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## digibucc (Dec 8, 2011)

johnnyfiive said:


> Metro isn't for the general desktop users. It's for touch devices.



this is the entire point of this thread, as noted by the title.


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## kid41212003 (Dec 8, 2011)

digibucc said:


> this is the entire point of this thread, as noted by the title.



The title says Windows 8...

Metro is just one of Windows 8's features...


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## digibucc (Dec 8, 2011)

metro is windows 8, the entire point of windows 8 is to release a touch interface:metro , which is irrelevant for pc users.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Dec 8, 2011)

Delta6326 said:


> .......Why would anyone want a OS that looks likes the Xbox 360's or a windows phone on a computer?



Why would anyone want to use a mouse?  
Why would anyone want color displays?  
Why would anyone want to use lasers in a copier?
Why would anyone want to transfer files via Ethernet, why not floppy disks?
Why would anyone want more than 640k of ram?

You clearly don't know the history of computing at all.  Over the years people have misread and gone with what they know.  When all the innovations above came into the computer market, it changed the market forever, and for the better.  Remember, the mouse was originally for business execs who had no idea how to type, but became something much more.

Better example:  IBM's PC and Xerox's Alto.  The Alto was far superior in every way to the original IBM PC, however people said that color monitors were useless, Ethernet was useless, and mice were useless, even though the power of this device was incredible.  Enter the IBM PC, which has none of these things, but is a huge success.  Shortly after PCs start getting the things that the Alto had, and while people are confused at first, these new additions take off, and the PC becomes more of what the Alto was.  The Alto paved the way.  

Think of Windows 8's UI as a gateway to something new in computing.  It might not be a huge success (the Alto wasn't outside of Xerox's PARC labs), but it might pave the way for some awesome UI in the future.  Don't discount it.


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## kid41212003 (Dec 8, 2011)

digibucc said:


> metro is windows 8, the entire point of windows 8 is to release a touch interface:metro , which is irrelevant for pc users.



Let's say ^ is true (Metro = Windows 8) which I disagree.


Let's say the average pc users have a 20" screen.

- How many icons can you put on it? Many.

In fact, it's too many it becomes harder to locate the icon you want.

- Beside creating shortcuts and widgets and starting at your wallpapers, what do people actually use their desktop space for?

I will let you answer ^. 

         Personally, I have a clock and weather widget with no icons on my screen (24") because I want to look at my wallpapers every time I turn on my PC. I have my most used programs on my task bar. When I need to use other programs, I press the "Start" key and start typing the first 3 letters of the program I want to use.

While I don't like losing my task bar, I think Metro is a step to a right direction. I'm sure the final version will make more sense.


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## Steevo (Dec 8, 2011)

All the things we have been trying to make work since 1998 like voice recognition, speak to text and many other items are finally being brought together with a OS that makes it work and everyone is still stuck on metro?


All the cool shit that we see in movies like facial recognition that works, biometrics, and other items that we have wanted and......durr hurr metro looks stoopid. It can be turned off just like Aero and other stuff can be so you can have your precious XP look.


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## newtekie1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Steevo said:


> I actually bought my own copy of 7 as I didn't like the new partner terms and conditions, specifically the part where any and all software you get through partner channels they can force you to remove, or revoke the keys for at any time. I have been getting other hard copy software that I sell, or uhh trade...... since it is NFR.



I got my copy right as my partnership was ending.  I then signed up for Technet for a year, and will probably sign up again when Win8 and Office 2012 comes out just to get the keys for those and then let the subscription expire again.


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## digibucc (Dec 8, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Why would anyone want to use a mouse?



big difference - mice are on a horizontal plane. until our monitors are built into our desks and we look down all day, a touch interface on a desktop pc isn't feasible.



			
				Steevo said:
			
		

> All the things we have been trying to make work since 1998 like voice recognition, speak to text and many other items are finally being brought together with a OS that makes it work and everyone is still stuck on metro?


as i said before, windows has been lacking them for so long, i've already BOUGHT third party software or found perfect free software to handle it. i'm not going to drop my current software unless windows provides a feature i can't get or does one better - and why upgrade if there are no added benefits?

the only thing left in my mind is to see the true speed benefits of a retail version. if it's faster, i'll bite the bullet and buy it. otherwise the feature list is not impressive imo.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Dec 9, 2011)

digibucc said:


> big difference - mice are on a horizontal plane. until our monitors are built into our desks and we look down all day, a touch interface on a desktop pc isn't feasible.



You missed the point of my whole comment.


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## xtremesv (Dec 9, 2011)

Windows XP served me well for 8 years, now I pretend to make good use of my retail license of Windows 7 for at least 6 more years


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## digibucc (Dec 9, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> You missed the point of my whole comment.



that people thought those innovations were unnecessary and even crazy until they were invented? I didn't miss it, i explained why touchscreens are not the same thing. unless of course that wasn't your point... then maybe i did miss it 

they are a different innovation than mice and keyboard. i recognize they will have their day, will become ubiquitous and just be normal - but they are not feasible as your sole input when you have a monitor vertically in front of your face, your arms tire after minutes.

and i love how people will note that you missed their point - but not reiterate it! explain yourself


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## Mega-Japan (Dec 9, 2011)

Who in their right mind wants that interface for their desktop?
Not me, that's for sure.


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## subhendu (Dec 9, 2011)

I really like two OS's -win xp and win 7.
they are very stable .

and I don't like win8's interface .and I don't like any of it's features. in short I don't need a new OS .


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## Steevo (Dec 10, 2011)

Then this thread is relevant to you how?


Thread crapping. Good job.


Motion activated and voice activated features of your PC or first person shooters with you as the controller must seem really dumb too. To much moving around and stuff.......I wanna just sit here and do nothing.


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## pr0n Inspector (Dec 10, 2011)

digibucc said:


> that people thought those innovations were unnecessary and even crazy until they were invented? I didn't miss it, i explained why touchscreens are not the same thing. unless of course that wasn't your point... then maybe i did miss it
> 
> they are a different innovation than mice and keyboard. i recognize they will have their day, will become ubiquitous and just be normal - but they are not feasible as your sole input when you have a monitor vertically in front of your face, your arms tire after minutes.
> 
> and i love how people will note that you missed their point - but not reiterate it! explain yourself



If you have a touchscreen you wouldn't position it like a normal display, see Wacom Cintiq.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 10, 2011)

pr0n Inspector said:


> If you have a touchscreen you wouldn't position it like a normal display, see Wacom Cintiq.



thats kind of his point. office workers for example, use desktop machines - and windows 8's metro interface will be just as useless to them, as it is to gamers.

its designed for touch screens, and touch screens are useless for almost all of the environments desktop PC's are used for.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Dec 10, 2011)

Mussels said:


> thats kind of his point. office workers for example, use desktop machines - and windows 8's metro interface will be just as useless to them, as it is to gamers.
> 
> its designed for touch screens, and touch screens are useless for almost all of the environments desktop PC's are used for.



yeh im not getting down with that at work

and even with kinnect pc attached id get sic of wavein me arms about quick they Need to incorporate easy switches to switch back to a normal desktop but then again the start button could do with another said easy switching option as i like the effin start menu


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## Mussels (Dec 10, 2011)

i'm just hoping windows 8 has more to it than metro: i really like the idea of tablets/laptops/desktops/phones all sharing a common OS with common software. buying an app for your phone and having it activate on your home machine as well would just be awesome.


metro is whats irrelevant to desktop users, i just really hope windows 8 has enough other things going for it, that the OS in entirety is not irrelevant.


----------



## pr0n Inspector (Dec 10, 2011)

Mussels said:


> thats kind of his point. office workers for example, use desktop machines - and windows 8's metro interface will be just as useless to them, as it is to gamers.
> 
> its designed for touch screens, and touch screens are useless for almost all of the environments desktop PC's are used for.



Corporate IT environments are not exactly the place to look for progress and advancement, irrelevant to 8's market even. Every place I ever worked used XP, almost none are fully patched and plenty of them didn't even have proper drivers(1024x768 on 5:4, ugh).


----------



## Mussels (Dec 10, 2011)

pr0n Inspector said:


> Corporate IT environments are not exactly the place to look for progress and advancement, irrelevant to 8's market even. Every place I ever worked used XP, almost none are fully patched and plenty of them didn't even have proper drivers(1024x768 on 5:4, ugh).



yeah but look at how new systems are sold, even in small business or home office. you buy a new machine and get a new OS - and if that OS has a dumbed down interface designed for a touch screen interface the system doesnt come equipped with...


its an impossible situation, so we know MS will have some trick up its sleeve. odds are metro will either be heavily tweaked for desktop use, or it will simply come with an easy on/off toggle.


----------



## WhiteLotus (Dec 10, 2011)

I would like to know what the improvements are over W7. I am aware of the "stability" update but that can be debated when some hacker finds a back door. 

Also, I would like to know what Microsoft is going to do to get business and the public sector to switch over to the the new operating system. 
For example in my hospital alone there are some 12000 computers all running XP. The system is all tied in together, and so can only work as fast as it's slowest component. In this case the NHS trust would have to upgrade the computers, then upgrade the OS, and then upgrade the software that is being used. This all takes vast amounts of money. To which Microsoft seems to be leaving untapped.


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## ypsylon (Dec 10, 2011)

There is no improvement over W7. If anything W8 is dumbed down W7. M$ can say all they want, but W8 is targeted first at tablets and second at PC desktop. Frankly nobody in the right frame of mind who own XP or W7 should switch to W8 unless you have nothing else to do with your money. In that case send it to charity or.... me!  Don't subsidize Bill Gates retirement fund by buying W8. One OS in 5-10 years is enough. W8 is even more cumbersome and user unfriendly. If you are power user then definitely XP was last good OS from M$. It is not big surprise that since W7 was launched 3rd party freeware called 'Classic Shell' was downloaded by millions of users. Testament to M$ useless developers.


----------



## n-ster (Dec 10, 2011)

ypsylon said:


> There is no improvement over W7. If anything W8 is dumbed down W7. M$ can say all they want, but W8 is targeted first at tablets and second at PC desktop. Frankly nobody in the right frame of mind who own *XP* or W7 should switch to W8 unless you have nothing else to do with your money. In that case send it to charity or.... me!  Don't subsidize Bill Gates retirement fund by buying W8. One OS in 5-10 years is enough. W8 is even more cumbersome and user unfriendly. If you are power user then definitely XP was last good OS from M$. It is not big surprise that since W7 was launched 3rd party freeware called 'Classic Shell' was downloaded by millions of users. Testament to M$ useless developers.



Lol XP...

seriously if you think XP>W8 you have a problem


----------



## WhiteLotus (Dec 10, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Lol XP...
> 
> seriously if you think XP>W8 you have a problem



XP is better is the software that is used does not work on higher Operating systems, and/or the overall cost would be gigantic to the firm to make the switch.


----------



## n-ster (Dec 10, 2011)

WhiteLotus said:


> XP is better is the software that is used does not work on higher Operating systems, and/or the overall cost would be gigantic to the firm to make the switch.



But in general, it is stupid to say it would be a waste of money to upgrade from XP to W8. Besides, he said that anyone who has XP and upgrades to W8 is wasting their money

and it doesn't make XP better, it just makes XP cheaper and more practical in a certain situation.


----------



## WhiteLotus (Dec 10, 2011)

n-ster said:


> But in general, it is stupid to say it would be a waste of money to upgrade from XP to W8. Besides, he said that anyone who has XP and upgrades to W8 is wasting their money
> 
> and it doesn't make XP better, it just makes XP cheaper and more practical in a certain situation.



Which is why Windows8 is irrelevant to PC  users. If you describe PC users as the people that use them at work.


----------



## Steevo (Dec 10, 2011)

Productivity on Windows 7 for us has been a increase with some of the features. 



Stay with windows XP and cry about how poor your hardware support is, much like people did when XP came out and many were still using 98SE or 2000 for gaming machines. I skipped 2000 and ME on my gaming machine entirely.


Again, Metro can be turned off, or you can just click a link to your normal desktop and it takes all of .25 of a second to do. Life must be hard if that .25 of a second or the fact that you have to think is so worrying. 



So let me help you. Close your browser windows, close your open programs, shut down your computer, get up and go focus on breathing, if clicking something is that hard you obviously need help to breathe since you might forget and die.


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## gourygabriev (Dec 10, 2011)

But isn't Windows 8 supposed to improve on multi-threading? Like it uses less physical cores because it distributes the threads by feeding it to the CPU more conservatively by laning it on a per core basis as opposed to just letting the CPU run the threads to any of its cores even if it only needs a few cores to process it? NOt sure if I am explaining it right but here's my noob paint skills to explain 









Won't that help in power efficiency? Won't it help multi-threaded games?


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## Steevo (Dec 10, 2011)

you misunderstand what windows does for thread scheduling.

Windows 7 is thread blind so to speak. In your diagram if left to right thread 1 was assigned to core 0 out of three threads the application was running total it would execute them simultaniously. If thread 2 on core 1 was depending on information from thread 1 on core 0 to process and for example if we had Intel Hyperthreading running it might assign it the following way.


Core 0/Thread 1 Real core
Core 1/Thread 2 HT core

So the dependant workload would be running on the same core creating at least two cycles of waste as the first thread has to fully execute and the results have to be written to the registers before the second thread can execute.


Windows 8 on the other hand will look at cores and HT cores, or other versions of multithreading per core differently and allocate dependant threads to individual real cores, and hopefully even within the same module so the shared resources will allow optomized processing.

1 core with HT VS 2 cores is not the same. Up till Windows 8 however the difference and the minimal number of true multithreaded applications has been limited, however this is changing as we are going more cores and less Ghz, if it went the way they thought it was we would all be running dual core 10Ghz processors and it woudn't matter.


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## micropage7 (Dec 10, 2011)

one that innovative and dumb is metro interface for desktop pc.
it looks nice but placing it as first screen? i dont think its a nice for desktop 
why dont they put it as start menu?
i guess windows wants people get familiar with that so they familiar with windows phone too so windows could assume if they buy phone, win phone would be in their list


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## Covert_Death (Dec 11, 2011)

i don't like the metro UI, but it has a desktop in it still, so that part of the OS is not gone, its just another layer now. the developer preview is fast as hell though, and THAT i am looking forward to. hopefully you will be able to set the desktop as the default UI and metro secondary in the final release, if so im buying it


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## n-ster (Dec 11, 2011)

WhiteLotus said:


> Which is why Windows8 is irrelevant to PC  users. If you describe PC users as the people that use them at work.



I'm sorry, but do all jobs require a program that works only on Windows XP?

You are saying that windows 7 and 8 are irrelevant to PC users... I am disagreeing with that and I'm sure many stats will disagree with it too


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## qubit (Dec 11, 2011)

Covert_Death said:


> i don't like the metro UI, but it has a desktop in it still, so that part of the OS is not gone, its just another layer now. the developer preview is fast as hell though, and THAT i am looking forward to. *hopefully you will be able to set the desktop as the default UI and metro secondary in the final release, if so im buying it*



Yeah, it's fast all right. Unfortunately, MS intend on making Metro the default UI.  Perhaps one can change this in the control panel for the RTM version, we'll just have to wait and see.


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## n-ster (Dec 11, 2011)

It's not like us techies can't figure out how to disable the Metro UI anyways


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## gourygabriev (Dec 11, 2011)

Steevo said:


> you misunderstand what windows does for thread scheduling.
> 
> Windows 7 is thread blind so to speak. In your diagram if left to right thread 1 was assigned to core 0 out of three threads the application was running total it would execute them simultaniously. If thread 2 on core 1 was depending on information from thread 1 on core 0 to process and for example if we had Intel Hyperthreading running it might assign it the following way.
> 
> ...




Ah I see  thanks for the clarification.


----------



## micropage7 (Dec 11, 2011)

qubit said:


> Yeah, it's fast all right. Unfortunately, MS intend on making Metro the default UI.  Perhaps one can change this in the control panel for the RTM version, we'll just have to wait and see.



yep
or just hope someone release apps to control it


----------



## djcl.ear (Dec 11, 2011)

digibucc said:


> (...)windows has been lacking them for so long, i've already BOUGHT third party software or found perfect free software to handle it. i'm not going to drop my current software unless windows provides a feature i can't get or does one better - and why upgrade if there are no added benefits?



We are getting to the point where the "ecosystem" is rendering substantial new functionalities.  Skype activated parrot-style following you while you walk around the house by the TV, Kitchen, etc.
Or voice differencing allowing for data to be shown at a work meeting depending on the speaker demand whoever she/he is, or Excel filling data by voice and touch combination... Yes, Excel and touch seems like a perfect match, the same way WORD and Voice also will easily fit.

The technologies Steevo and others here list: handwriting and voice recognition, speak to text, facial and partial body recognition, motion and voice activated features, bio and NeuroControl.
All are _already_ mature to have existing products on the shelves:
http://www.gamesradar.com/mindwave-a-99-brainwave-sensor-now-on-sale/
To show the rarest. 
But to hint the functionalities now at reach, better read on some new functions of recently released 2nd Kinect SDK, of which apps are starting what seem to become a BIG Wave:
    *Sound source localization for beamforming, which enables the determination of a sound’s spatial location, enhancing reliability when integrated with the Microsoft speech recognition API.
    *Depth data, which provides the distance of an object from the Kinect camera.
    *Highly performant and robust skeletal tracking capabilities for determining the body positions of one or two persons moving within the Kinect field of view.


What we DO need is an OS that actually facilitates the interconnection and merge of all these, allowing for new functions and* vast efficiency improvement*s in one environment.
To me this is not just creating an ecosystem, its allowing for the evolution of Era in control and IT funcionalties. This is not just about _fast_ and _compatibility_. It's radical new functions and ways of doing the old and new.
One good example of how this evolution comes to be possible, is The Touchable Hologram. It has been in our fantasies since the 70s, and several attempts have been tried by adding soundwaves, air pressure shaping and who knows what else to "densify them". However now 
http://www.mobiledia.com/news/113457.html
Techs left holograms in their physical band while adding Kinect and CPU to it, allowing for precise in air control from users wanting to interact...with whatever an hologram conveys... This is the kind of new capacities found with the interaction of several techniques, instead of trying to force certain technology, device or software, to do it all by itself.


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## qubit (Apr 24, 2013)

I just came across one of my old news stories: Windows 8 and Metro was looking like a pile of fail even way back in December 2011!

Nice to see the industry predictions were right all along.


----------



## Ravenas (Apr 24, 2013)

An OS that is the same across all over Microsoft's products is relevant.


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## qubit (Apr 24, 2013)

The sales figures say otherwise.


----------



## Frick (Apr 24, 2013)

What are those figures exactly? The only ones i've seen where the ones that came about three months after release and they looked fine.

Also, why the fruck do you bump your own angled stories? I know you have a huge ego, but this is retarded.


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## TRWOV (Apr 24, 2013)

The Non-OEM revenue at the Windows Division was up 40% according to the Q3 2013 results... and I don't think Surface is responsible for that.


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## FordGT90Concept (Apr 24, 2013)

It was really, really stupid of Microsoft to not have a Windows 7 mode in Windows 8 and be used by default on non-touch enabled devices.  And by really, really stupid, I mean the dumbest thing ever Microsoft has done.




TRWOV said:


> The Non-OEM revenue at the Windows Division was up 40% according to the Q3 2013 results... and I don't think Surface is responsible for that.
> 
> http://imageshack.us/a/img692/7006/windowsq3fy2013600x338j.png


Because Windows 7 is still widely available and XP is going EoL.

If that includes Windows Phone then Windows Phone too.


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## djcl.ear (Apr 24, 2013)

qubit said:


> I just came across one of my old news stories: Windows 8 and Metro was looking like a pile of fail even way back in December 2011!
> Nice to see the industry predictions were right all along.




Well. Yes, Microsoft Administration released an OS that is way far from the possibilities pointed at post 111 in this thread. 
Instead, they opted for forcing consumers into unfriendly OS usage and functions, really planting the basis for their increased control respect software to be installed, control over laptops/PCs use in or out the web, even making difficult to turn off the device....
In sum, they want increased control.  

Whereas now, any OS developer is really at a crossroad; either to facilitate an ecosystem growth or to remain a closed (and smaller) environment...
Microsoft seems to have opted for OWNING the ecosystem and thus bought and re/manufactured; Skype, Kinect, Game consoles, released its own tablets, aim to control phones, etc, etc.

Instead of... embarking on the construction of a wide and deep long-term net of associations and contracts in order to open the gates to add and develop new functionalities. By now every appliance manufacturer, and really, any electronic-related manufacturer should have some kind of approach by Microsoft in order to -at least- begin to explore the possible synergies _thru Windows_ with existing software or hardware...
And this should be some kind of publicly open push.

I sort of understand this initiative is yet to be made, taking in account Microsoft culture. What is difficult to conceive is that Microsoft failed to incorporate their already own tech into Windows8 in some kind of novel way. Skype being the notorious one, but Kinect is a gross omission as well, as their speech to text, voice recognition, etc... All pointing to their actual administration lack of understanding of the world we are growing into.

///In that context, some predictions were quite spot on, regardless the aid to their actual sales numbers provided by their corporate customers.


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## AphexDreamer (Apr 24, 2013)

FordGT90Concept said:


> It was really, really stupid of Microsoft to not have a Windows 7 mode in Windows 8 and be used by default on non-touch enabled devices.  And by really, really stupid, I mean the dumbest thing ever Microsoft has done.



Win 8 is still very much just like windows 7 in terms of UI (Metro Start just being windows 7's start that takes up the whole screen), IMO it would have been very stupid for them to have a separate windows 7 mode.


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## qubit (Apr 25, 2013)

@djcl.ear

You're absolutely right: it is indeed all about control and maximizing profits by locking the customer up tight in Microsoft's restrictive ecosystem, like Apple.

Cool avatar btw, what is that a picture of?


@frick

Whinge! Whinge! Whinge! You're such a plonker, you crack me up! 

I think unintentionally upsetting you with a completely innocuous observation about Windows 8 that everyone else found useful but you was the highlight of my evening.  It would be worth writing for TPU again just to see the look on your face...


----------



## Frick (Apr 25, 2013)

qubit said:


> @frick
> 
> Whinge! Whinge! Whinge! You're such a plonker, you crack me up!
> 
> I think unintentionally upsetting you with a completely innocuous observation about Windows 8 that everyone else found useful but you was the highlight of my evening.  It would be worth writing for TPU again just to see the look on your face...



Everyone but the ones disagreeing with you, you mean. But no wait they can't be right, because you're not wrong! Your opinions are facts! At least that is how you write things, even still. I still think it was massively stupid to bump an old thread just so you can stroke your ego.

Anyway, about MS wanting control: Why shouldn't they want this? The Windows Everywhere concept is sort of neat IMO. If they could integrate all those things djcl.ear speak of (Skype, Kinect, whatever) to a coherent user experience across platforms it would be very nice. If it works, and they make it simple obviously and more or less seamless.

What is sort of amazing is that all they have to do is slap an opt-in start meny on Windows 8 and pretty much every single being on the planet will be pleased. More or less. People will still dislike them because [insert whatever ideological mumbo jumbo you happen to follow], but whatever.


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## Mussels (Apr 25, 2013)

Frick said:


> What are those figures exactly? The only ones i've seen where the ones that came about three months after release and they looked fine.
> 
> Also, why the fruck do you bump your own angled stories? I know you have a huge ego, but this is retarded.



because it was sold for the low low price of $15, of course the sales figures are skewed. the dropped the price and had heaps of discounted sales to make the numbers look decent.


----------



## cdawall (Apr 25, 2013)

Windows 8 sucks plain and simple they took something that was working well and ruined. The Metro interface is the most assinine thing I have ever seen enter the PC workplace. It doesn't work for a none touchscreen. I have people I work with try and argue its great and most of them are lucky to know how to use a mouse. So maybe for simple minded Ipod generation people it is great they don't have to think. Microsoft hit the nail on the head if they wanted to make an OS for those geniouses.

End point I will take a copy of Windows 7 any day of the week and have had to reinstall it on about a dozen people I am deployed with that despise Windows 8.


----------



## TRWOV (Apr 25, 2013)

Mussels said:


> because it was sold for the low low price of $15, of course the sales figures are skewed. the dropped the price and had heaps of discounted sales to make the numbers look decent.



Didn't remember that. Now the 40% increase in revenue looks even more amazing.


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## Mussels (Apr 25, 2013)

TRWOV said:


> Didn't remember that. Now the 40% increase in revenue looks even more amazing.



because they're selling tablets, phones, and OS's. they can skew it in a number of ways.


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## qubit (Apr 25, 2013)

Frick said:


> I still think it was massively stupid to bump an old thread just so you can stroke your ego.



So, my huge ego has once again crushed your tiny one? That's hardly surprising, is it? 



Mussels said:


> because it was sold for the low low price of $15, of course the sales figures are skewed. the dropped the price and had heaps of discounted sales to make the numbers look decent.



Exactly. Thankyou. 

Also, every tech pundit out there is reporting how sales have fallen off a cliff, it's doing even worse than Vista, yet our little frick is oblivious to all this (he admitted this just now in public, no less!) and thinks whining at me yet again is the way to go, lol.

Here's an excellent example of what I'm talking about: Windows 8 pushes PC sales off a cliff


----------



## Prima.Vera (Apr 25, 2013)

Funny thing is that Win 8 runs so much better on my old laptop, with 3GB of RAM, than Win 7. It boots faster, loads faster the programs, not so much RAM usage, nice copy file status, but that's about it. Downside is that it takes double the space, and have to install a tom of 3rd party programs to mak it functional, like Start button, skip Metro, re-add gadgets, etc, etc. But for my desktop, I wouldn't add it, not for 1 million years!


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## qubit (Apr 25, 2013)

Prima.Vera said:


> *Funny thing is that Win 8 runs so much better on my old laptop, with 3GB of RAM, than Win 7. It boots faster, loads faster the programs, not so much RAM usage, nice copy file status, but that's about it.* Downside is that it takes double the space, and have to install a tom of 3rd party programs to mak it functional, like Start button, skip Metro, re-add gadgets, etc, etc. But for my desktop, I wouldn't add it, not for 1 million years!



That's the thing, Microsoft made some really nice improvements to the underlying OS, but then ruined everything with that Metro interface/removing the Start menu and by removing Aero. I'll bet the actual developers who were told to do it were cursing this decision every step of the way. :shadedshu

They also forced key entry right at the start of an install, which I find massively annoying and inconvenient - they had it perfect with W7 and its deferred key entry and activation.

Finally secure boot actually _is_ shutting out Linux as recently reported on several sites, just like I said it would in several articles on TPU (I can dig them out). I've seen recent articles about this, plus a friend told me how bioses from the likes of Dell, HP etc oddly don't have the option to turn secure boot off when it's trivial to implement...


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## D007 (Apr 25, 2013)

Which is why I never got it.. Win 7 x64 ftw.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 25, 2013)

IDK 7 ran perfect on an Athlon Machine with 2 GB of ram, so Im not sure about all the bashing, Joe blow only sees the interface not the underhood work.



qubit said:


> That's the thing, Microsoft made some really nice improvements to the underlying OS, but then ruined everything with that Metro interface/removing the Start menu and by removing Aero. I'll bet the actual developers who were told to do it were cursing this decision every step of the way. :shadedshu
> 
> They also forced key entry right at the start of an install, which I find massively annoying and inconvenient - they had it perfect with W7 and its deferred key entry and activation.
> 
> Finally secure boot actually _is_ shutting out Linux as recently reported on several sites, just like I said it would in several articles on TPU (I can dig them out). I've seen recent articles about this, plus a friend told me how bioses from the likes of Dell, HP etc oddly don't have the option to turn secure boot off...


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## TRWOV (Apr 25, 2013)

qubit said:


> That's the thing, Microsoft made some really nice improvements to the underlying OS, but then ruined everything with that Metro interface/removing the Start menu and by removing Aero. I'll bet the actual developers who were told to do it were cursing this decision every step of the way. :shadedshu
> 
> They also forced key entry right at the start of an install, which I find massively annoying and inconvenient - they had it perfect with W7 and its deferred key entry and activation.
> 
> Finally secure boot actually _is_ shutting out Linux as recently reported on several sites, just like I said it would in several articles on TPU (I can dig them out). I've seen recent articles about this, plus a friend told me how bioses from the likes of Dell, HP etc oddly don't have the option to turn secure boot off when it's trivial to implement...




You can activate after installation. Same as in W7. W8 nags you more though.

As for secure boot, you can thank the UEFI Forum for that: http://www.uefi.org/about/
This has been pointed out several times but somehow only MS gets the blame.  Besides the only thing preventing Linux from running with Secure Boot is _not implementing it_. Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and Fedora 18 can run with SB just fine.


edit: You can turn off Secure Boot on Dell PCs: http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/extras/m/white_papers/20278835.aspx page 11

edit2: Dell XPS 8500 from 3 months ago with W8 preinstalled can turn off Secure Boot. Not sure what PC did your friend test. Can't tell for hp's though.

edit3: An option for disabling SB is required in the UEFI 2.2 spec and up.

edit4: I'm sure you'll selectively forget all of this after closing the browser.


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## Frick (Apr 25, 2013)

qubit said:


> So, my huge ego has once again crushed your tiny one? That's hardly surprising, is it?
> 
> Also, every tech pundit out there is reporting how sales have fallen off a cliff, it's doing even worse than Vista, yet our little frick is oblivious to all this (he admitted this just now in public, no less!) and thinks whining at me yet again is the way to go, lol.
> 
> Here's an excellent example of what I'm talking about: Windows 8 pushes PC sales off a cliff



Yes. My ego is very crushed.

And of course I knew about the tanking PC industry, which has little to do with "non-OEM revenue", which is what the image TRWOW posted is about, and was sort of what I was talking about. If you think Windows 8 sucks then yeah it's easy to draw quick conclusions and close the case, as you do, and as that writer does. Nevermind that people don't want desktops because they don't need them and people are tired of those boxes and wires going everywhere, and even the laptop is going the same way. Do people hate Windows 8? Yes. Some people even have good reasons to not like it, but it feels like most people hate it because they are supposed to. Like they did with Vista.

Did MS do some less than enlightened design decisions? Totally yes. But UI overhauls generally attract a lot of hate, no matter how good they are, like with Vista and even XP. And 95. Is the Metro UI suited for desktop use? Not Metro apps (because of the way it does fullscreen and not-quite-fullscreen) IMO, but the rest of it is totally usable. I even know people who likes it better than 7 and think their workflow has improved with 8. And those are people who work with their computers all day.


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## SK-1 (Apr 25, 2013)

I upgraded my kids pc from xp to 8. Now I cant seem to get any games to run... Issues with BF3 and Skyrim.


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## Frick (Apr 25, 2013)

For more fun, here's the actual quote from IDC:



> Despite some mild improvement in the economic environment and some new PC models offering Windows 8, PC shipments were down significantly across all regions compared to a year ago. Fading Mini Notebook shipments have taken a big chunk out of the low-end market while tablets and smartphones continue to divert consumer spending. PC industry efforts to offer touch capabilities and ultraslim systems have been hampered by traditional barriers of price and component supply, as well as a weak reception for Windows 8. The PC industry is struggling to identify innovations that differentiate PCs from other products and inspire consumers to buy, and instead is meeting significant resistance to changes perceived as cumbersome or costly.
> 
> "At this point, unfortunately, it seems clear that the Windows 8 launch not only failed to provide a positive boost to the PC market, but appears to have slowed the market," said Bob O'Donnell, IDC Program Vice President, Clients and Displays. "While some consumers appreciate the new form factors and touch capabilities of Windows 8, the radical changes to the UI, removal of the familiar Start button, and the costs associated with touch have made PCs a less attractive alternative to dedicated tablets and other competitive devices. Microsoft will have to make some very tough decisions moving forward if it wants to help reinvigorate the PC market."



It is true that the PC is failing to attract people, obviously. What is the core IMO is this: "The PC industry is struggling to identify innovations that differentiate PCs from other products and inspire consumers to buy". According to most people disliking Windows 8 the solution to this ("identify innovations") would be to ... keep it the same? I don't think that is a solution at all. It is all speculation obviously, but people are sort of tired of a traditional desktop. I'm not talking power users, gamers and professionals obviously, but avarage Joes. I truly believe doing nothing wouldn't really help PC sales either. But that sort of discussion is all speculation either way, as I said.

Is Windows 8 The Perfect Solution to the problem of innovating the PC? Probably not, but I'm not really sure what would be. Certinaly not doing more of the same.


----------



## qubit (Apr 25, 2013)

@frick

As long as you keep acting like a total douchebag towards me, embarrassing yourself in public like on this thread and the many others you've crapped to take a lame pop at me, I won't waste my time engaging in conversation with you, regardless of the merit of the points you make.

Got that?


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## cdawall (Apr 25, 2013)

Frick said:


> Is Windows 8 The Perfect Solution to the problem of innovating the PC? Probably not, but I'm not really sure what would be. Certinaly not doing more of the same.



Unless it is installed on a tablet windows 8 looks and behaves stupidly. Using a mouse to click on giant icons is flat out retarded. I will take my normal desktop over Metro's bull any day. As I said in my last post so does everyone else I know that isn't to lazy to add a simple icon.


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## digibucc (Apr 25, 2013)

Mussels said:


> because it was sold for the low low price of $15, of course the sales figures are skewed. the dropped the price and had heaps of discounted sales to make the numbers look decent.



i've said this many times and it just gets ignored! I bought two $15 copies that I'm not even using atm save for a broken laptop. You think others didn't jump at a legit version of 8 from 7 for $15? it's kinda silly not to if you are an enthusiast.



Frick said:


> According to most people disliking Windows 8 the solution to this ("identify innovations") would be to ... keep it the same? I don't think that is a solution at all. It is all speculation obviously, but people are sort of tired of a traditional desktop.



that's ALL speculation, point a and b. you are taking your opinion and trying to word it in a way that makes it seem factual. the problem with windows 8 is that it is designed for a touch screen. it is obtrusive and nonsensical to use that design on a desktop or laptop without a touch screen. the fact that you have to hack it to fully have metro ui removed, and then it still doesn't work as you'd want is ridiculous.

I'm all for improvement. 7 is AWESOME! and i stuck with xp sp2 through vista. I'll upgrade when it's worth it and when an OS offers a sensible change. Windows 8 is not that sensible change.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Apr 25, 2013)

cdawall said:


> Unless it is installed on a tablet windows 8 looks and behaves stupidly. Using a mouse to click on giant icons is flat out retarded. I will take my normal desktop over Metro's bull any day. As I said in my last post so does everyone else I know that isn't to lazy to add a simple icon.



It is visually more appealing and regardless it substantially changes nothing in terms of anything really. 

When you hit start you hit start to look at start, so it just happens to take up the whole screen in Windows 8 versus a small portion of it and not to mention when you hit all apps, you no longer get any "giant" icons. Also if you consider searching for apps through start (which is what I would do since Vista) the concept of size doesn't even pop in to mind. Not to mention if you have your PC hooked up to a TV, it makes a world of a difference even with a mouse.


----------



## cdawall (Apr 25, 2013)

AphexDreamer said:


> It is visually more appealing and regardless it substantially changes nothing in terms of anything really.
> 
> When you hit start you hit start to look at start, so it just happens to take up the whole screen in Windows 8 versus a small portion of it and not to mention when you hit all apps, you no longer get any "giant" icons. Also if you consider searching for apps through start (which is what I would do since Vista) the concept of size doesn't even pop in to mind. Not to mention if you have your PC hooked up to a TV, it makes a world of a difference even with a mouse.



I don't have my PC hooked up to a TV and at the rate things are going neither will anyone else. Smart TV's integrate the small stable Android OS for a reason. 

Heck even on a tablet I would much rather have Android's OS over Surface. It works better and the application base is open source, not to mention the kernel itself has been modified by tons of people for the better. 

There is honestly nothing you can say or show me about windows 8 on any platform that will steer me. My personal opinion is that it sucks. I have tried it disliked it and found the "intuitive" OS to be the most asinine thing I have had to ever deal with on a PC. Plenty of other people agree with me and the vast majority are pissed their laptop came with Windows 8 on them without the ability to swap to 7. There is a reason for that and you cannot argue it. Windows 7 flat out works. Windows 8 is new weird and clunky to use. I am sticking with what works.


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## rtwjunkie (Apr 25, 2013)

Frick said:


> Nevermind that people don't want desktops because they don't need them and people are tired of those boxes and wires going everywhere



This is news to me.  I prefer a machine that can run cool, be upgraded and expanded.  And apparently alot of other people feel the same way, because online retailers like Newegg who sell pc parts for building have had extremely good sales figures for the last several years.  So, SOMEbody wants these desktops, don't you think?  It can't all just be entusiasts, gamers and power users.  Average joes are buying motherboards and cpu's and memory, etc for desktops, or the sales wouldn't be phenomenal.  I think it's just lore, like urban legend, that the desktop is not popular.  That's what most of the anti-desktop media and Microsoft WANT us to believe.


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## Prima.Vera (Apr 25, 2013)

cdawall said:


> Unless it is installed on a tablet windows 8 looks and behaves stupidly. Using a mouse to click on giant icons is flat out retarded. I will take my normal desktop over Metro's bull any day. As I said in my last post so does everyone else I know that isn't to lazy to add a simple icon.



Agree. But frankly is stupid even on mobiles and tablets also. I mean, iOS and Android are using icons since the beginning, and are so much easier and pleasant to use, why does stupid M$ needs to re-invent the wheel??:shadedshu


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## AphexDreamer (Apr 25, 2013)

cdawall said:


> I don't have my PC hooked up to a TV and at the rate things are going neither will anyone else. Smart TV's integrate the small stable Android OS for a reason.
> 
> Heck even on a tablet I would much rather have Android's OS over Surface. It works better and the application base is open source, not to mention the kernel itself has been modified by tons of people for the better.
> 
> There is honestly nothing you can say or show me about windows 8 on any platform that will steer me. My personal opinion is that it sucks. I have tried it disliked it and found the "intuitive" OS to be the most asinine thing I have had to ever deal with on a PC. Plenty of other people agree with me and the vast majority are pissed their laptop came with Windows 8 on them without the ability to swap to 7. There is a reason for that and you cannot argue it. Windows 7 flat out works. Windows 8 is new weird and clunky to use. I am sticking with what works.



I'm not trying to steer you, I could careless about what OS you use. I'm merely commenting on some of the ridiculous statements you are spewing out such as, "It doesn't work for a none touchscreen."

People are stubborn and scared of change, change even as subtle as windows 8. Case in point, "Windows 8 is *new *weird and clunky to use."


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## Frick (Apr 26, 2013)

digibucc said:


> that's ALL speculation, point a and b. you are taking your opinion and trying to word it in a way that makes it seem factual. the problem with windows 8 is that it is designed for a touch screen. it is obtrusive and nonsensical to use that design on a desktop or laptop without a touch screen. the fact that you have to hack it to fully have metro ui removed, and then it still doesn't work as you'd want is ridiculous.
> 
> I'm all for improvement. 7 is AWESOME! and i stuck with xp sp2 through vista. I'll upgrade when it's worth it and when an OS offers a sensible change. Windows 8 is not that sensible change.



Everything is specualition. I even said so. Everything beyond hard figure sales is speculation, no matter what you think.

Abot desktops and compnent sales: more people might build their own systems, but i dont think it maks up for the loss of OEM sales. Also speculation obviously, would be nice to see a deeper story about it. Btw, i can only go with what peope around me do, but almost literally everyone i know dont like desktops. They are all on AIO's, tablets and laptops. Doesnt prove anything of course.


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## digibucc (Apr 26, 2013)

Frick said:


> Everything is specualition.





Frick said:


> They are all on AIO's, tablets and laptops. Doesnt prove anything of course.



I think the problem then comes in the fact that you present this information as though it refutes others' equally valid experiences. 

I see a LOT more desktops than laptops, tablets or AIOs and they are all for small offices. they'd rather replace a $300 desktop every 3-4 years then go with a $800 laptop or $800+AIO, or a tablet that's too small to do their job.Offices are probably the leaders in market technology, as they buy everything in bulk and upgrade on a semi-regular pattern.

so there is what i see, it doesn't negate anything you see or experience but it is another side to the coin. my point being, stop pushing your experience as though it's the only valid one. and if you don't realize that is what you are doing, i'm letting you know so now you should realize that, it is in fact what you are doing.


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## WhiteLotus (Apr 26, 2013)

digibucc said:


> I think the problem then comes in the fact that you present this information as though it refutes others' equally valid experiences.
> 
> I see a LOT more desktops than laptops, tablets or AIOs and they are all for small offices. they'd rather replace a $300 desktop every 3-4 years then go with a $800 laptop or $800+AIO, or a tablet that's too small to do their job.Offices are probably the leaders in market technology, as they buy everything in bulk and upgrade on a semi-regular pattern.
> 
> so there is what i see, it doesn't negate anything you see or experience but it is another side to the coin. my point being, stop pushing your experience as though it's the only valid one. and if you don't realize that is what you are doing, i'm letting you know so now you should realize that, it is in fact what you are doing.



I agree with Frick when I see people buying ultrabooks and iPads. Desktops are being more and more a business thing, with the average user finding that the tablets and light weight portable laptops having more than enough hardware to look up facebook.


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## digibucc (Apr 26, 2013)

again, I would argue that the business sector counts for more purchases overall, so even though you may see a decline in the consumer sector that doesn't point to an overall decline AS LARGE as is being proposed.

I don't for a second argue that they are not becoming less popular, or that there will not be a time relatively soon where they are relegated to mostly just enthusiasts. but to say that time has already been reached is simply false.

I work with offices and end users, and I still have plenty of consumer clients that do not want to go the way of a laptop or tablet. that's generally the "stick with what you know" mindset, but it's real and it has an effect that i think should be recognized.


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## WhiteLotus (Apr 26, 2013)

digibucc said:


> again, I would argue that the business sector counts for more purchases overall, so even though you may see a decline in the consumer sector that doesn't point to an overall decline AS LARGE as is being proposed.
> 
> I don't for a second argue that they are not becoming less popular, or that there will not be a time relatively soon where they are relegated to mostly just enthusiasts. but to say that time has already been reached is simply false.
> 
> I work with offices and end users, and I still have plenty of consumer clients that do not want to go the way of a laptop or tablet. that's generally the "stick with what you know" mindset, but it's real and it has an effect that i think should be recognized.



This is true, perhaps the offices of the future will be developed with the iPad generation of users in mind though.


Oh god that would be awful.


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## rtwjunkie (Apr 26, 2013)

WhiteLotus said:


> Desktops are being more and more a business thing, with the average user finding that the tablets and light weight portable laptops having more than enough hardware to look up facebook.



But just who IS this average user?  Point in fact, the myth of PC gaming dying has proven to be false, as now that PC games are downloadable everywhere, not just on Steam, PC game sales have been taking an ever-larger market share from consoles.  And the average desktop might only be able to play half the titles, with laptops that can play them as they are meant to be played being an even smaller percentage.  So what do people do?  They are building desktops or upgrading them.  Someone is buying desktop memory, GPU's, cases, motherboards, and cpu's by the truckload, and its certainly not businesses.  So between businesses and all these self-builds, as well as people buying these desktop components to upgrade their OEM computers, the desktop is not on the wane.  

What we DO see is people being more mobile, and buying tablets and laptops and phones and using these things in addition to their desktops they have at home.  Because a desktop lasts longer, with only the occasional component upgrade here and there, the illusion is created that they are not as popular, simply because the mobile devices must be replaced in their entirety most of the time in order to upgrade.  That equates to more sales than desktops yes, but it doesn't tell the whole story.

Just my two cents.


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## WhiteLotus (Apr 26, 2013)

rtwjunkie said:


> But just who IS this average user?



People who use the internet to send/receive emails, social networking, and occasionally typing up letters/word documents.


If you got all the students in a University and questioned them, you'd find that the majority would be using laptops for doing work, maybe with the addition of a Tablet because why not, and using xbox360/PS3 for gaming.
(Yes I am well aware of the comparatively small group of those that would use PC for games, but that is what it is, a small group.


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## digibucc (May 1, 2013)

rtwjunkie said:


> What we DO see is people being more mobile, and buying tablets and laptops and phones and using these things in addition to their desktops they have at home.  Because a desktop lasts longer, with only the occasional component upgrade here and there, the illusion is created that they are not as popular, simply because the mobile devices must be replaced in their entirety most of the time in order to upgrade.  That equates to more sales than desktops yes, but it doesn't tell the whole story.
> 
> Just my two cents.



I think this is a REALLY good point.


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## kid41212003 (May 5, 2013)

Imagine reaching my 27" touchscreen monitor to use Windows 8 the way it was meant to use.

Are you fucking serious?


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