# Crappy VRMs on B350s, few X370s as well - inadvisable Ryzen 7 overclocking over 1.32-1.35V



## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

Hello, i am seeing all of the recommendations for B350 if you dont need SLI etc. but these are just wrong. Most manafacturers (Mainly MSI and Gigabyte) cheaped out on the VRMs on these boards and they are mostly from cancer components. I know that our glorious overclocker buildzoid did the breakdowns etc. MSI uses 4+2 design on all AM4 mobos except Xpower which has the same cheapo mosfets but 6 phases (but still runs hot AF). The used mosfets are Nikosem PK616BA for the highside and PK632BA for the lowside. Tomahawk-class trash motherboards use 4 highside vs X370s and B350 Carbon/Krait using 8 highside, both have 8 lowside. The main problem there is the PK616BA which is very slow (Tr,Tf) and has huge switching losses, even though they are doubled on some mobos, they still output similiar amount of heat which is combined with even worse "heatsinks" (on Carbon they are solid pieces of aluminium only like 2-3cm high). Gigabyte uses highside one 4C10N and two lowside 4C06N, the 4C10N is bad part as well, so avoid them, they are on all AM4 GBT mobos except K7/ Gaming 5. Best VRM on B350 is on Asus B350 Strix, Prime Plus, TUF B350M Plus, ASRock's "6" 3 phase on Pro4s and on the Carbon but it has shitty BIOS and memory support so i dont recommend it.
For comparison, MSI small 4+2 outputs approximately 19-20W of heat while running R7 at 1.42V (100A), MSI big 4+2 outputs approximately 17-18W, in reality runs cooler because of the doubling and surface area (as you will see in the graphs) and Asus´s solution (4phase, one 4C09B high and 2 lowside 4C06B) approximately 17-18W of heat, the heatsinks on the Strix are bit more "heatsinks" than on the carbon but still nothing groundbreaking (I have the Strix, had the Carbon). I am including the graphs and thermal imaging.
*MSI X370 Pro Gaming Carbon - no airflow - applies to B350 Carbon as well*



*MSI B350 Tomahawk - should be avoided thanks to its crappy BIOS and memory support



Thermal Image - Asus Strix B350-F - overvolted at 1.44V (at 1.35-38V i would expect 80-90°C on the VRM, 70-80°C on the heatsink)



Thermal image - Xpower Titanium at 1.402V. Really hot for motherboard expensive more than Crosshair 6 Hero



For comparison - Asus Crosshair 6 Hero

*



Seelenwolf said:


> Hello, i see you use the Pictures from our Teammate and Overclockermember Saibot from www.Hardwareinside.de
> 
> https://www.hardwareinside.de/msi-b350-tomahawk-im-test-25145/
> https://www.hardwareinside.de/community/threads/review-des-msi-x370-gaming-pro-carbon.4635/
> ...


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## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

Sorry for the borked first image


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## silentbogo (Sep 2, 2017)

Dave_K said:


> Most manafacturers (Mainly MSI and Gigabyte) cheaped out on the VRMs on these boards and they are mostly from cancer components.


This is not just for AM4 boards, these manufacturers also do some questionable decisions on FM2, AM3, LGA1150 and 1151 boards. AsRock does the same on the low-mid end. 

It's not something new or previously unknown, but definitely worth pointing out.


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## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> This is not just for AM4 boards, these manufacturers also do some questionable decisions on FM2, AM3, LGA1150 and 1151 boards. AsRock does the same on the low-mid end.
> 
> It's not something new or previously unknown, but definitely worth pointing out.


Yeah. It is interesting that Gigabyte and MSI use complete trash on most while Asus and ASRock use pretty fine on few and very good on most.


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## Vya Domus (Sep 2, 2017)

Those temps still look within what I would consider safe , no idea on the quality of the mosfets and such.

But honestly running a 1700 at almost 1.5V is seriously exaggerated regardless of the board and quality of VRMs not sure what's the point of that.


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## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> Those temps still look within what I would consider safe , no idea on the quality of the mosfets and such.
> 
> But honestly running a 1700 at almost 1.5V is seriously exaggerated regardless of the board and quality of VRMs not sure what's the point of that.


The graphs show different voltages so you know what is the limit of your board. Of course 1.48V is too much.


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## Vya Domus (Sep 2, 2017)

Well , there are always going to be boards with bad VRMs.

I'd say the situation at least wont be as dire as it was back in the day when people were trying to run FX 9xxx chips on 4+1 phases. Since Ryzen doesn't clock as high anyway and has very good efficiency I am fairly confided we'll see far less "shit I fried my board cases" now.


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## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

Vya Domus said:


> Well , there are always going to be boards with bad VRMs.
> 
> I'd say the situation at least wont be as dire as it was back in the day when people were trying to run FX 9xxx chips on 4+1 phases. Since Ryzen doesn't clock as high anyway and has very good efficiency I am fairly confided we'll see far less "shit I fried my board cases" now.


Actually somebody already fried Tomahawk and it is the biggest problem, the VRMs wont go up in flames but at 100°C operating temperature their lifespan will decrease and they will eventually die


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## Vayra86 (Sep 2, 2017)

Let's face it, the only reason we don't see this on Intel too much is because its locked down and with AMD its not. It does not however change the reality that you need a solid board and good VRM to push any kind of OC if you want your gear to last. OC on B350 is just waiting for the inevitable fail.


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## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

Vayra86 said:


> Let's face it, the only reason we don't see this on Intel too much is because its locked down and with AMD its not. It does not however change the reality that you need a solid board and good VRM to push any kind of OC if you want your gear to last. OC on B350 is just waiting for the inevitable fail.


The better B350s are absolutely fine for Hexacore, not for 8 core. The idea of B350 being good for overclocking is given by people like Kyle (BitWit) or ScienceStudio who overclock on their review samples and have absolutely no idea about the VRMs or the temps of the VRMs. Thats just bad.


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## Vario (Sep 2, 2017)

Hmm but it is *Military Class 4, Guard-Pro: Latest evolution in high quality components for best protection and efficiency.*  lol.


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## infrared (Sep 2, 2017)

I think this is all fairly common sense tbh. If you're buying a low end board you obviously aren't getting the same quality of components, so you know it's going to be hotter. Also if you're overclocking a 6-8 core CPU then you should know it's going to be consuming a huge amount of juice. You should be monitoring temperatures when oc'ing. And you definitely should have airflow going over the motherboard. 

So hypothetically if you bought the bottom of the barrel AM4 motherboard paired it with an R7, put it in a case with no airflow, dialed the voltage up to 1.45v and it barbecued itself.. well, no sympathy really!


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## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

infrared said:


> I think this is all fairly common sense tbh. If you're buying a low end board you obviously aren't getting the same quality of components, so you know it's going to be hotter. Also if you're overclocking a 6-8 core CPU then you should know it's going to be consuming a huge amount of juice. You should be monitoring temperatures when oc'ing. And you definitely should have airflow going over the motherboard.
> 
> So hypothetically if you bought the bottom of the barrel AM4 motherboard paired it with an R7, put it in a case with no airflow, dialed the voltage up to 1.45v and it barbecued itself.. well, no sympathy really!


Well, 8 core eats as much power as 7700K, i just want to point it out because i've seen the bad recommendations here on the forum


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## Recca29 (Sep 2, 2017)

3.8 GHz, auto overclocking, I don't see temps that high.
This is after 30 min at full load with only the CPU fan active.


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## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

Recca29 said:


> 3.8 GHz, auto overclocking, I don't see temps that high.
> This is after 30 min at full load with only the CPU fan active.


Yeah, these sensors tend to be inaccurate. Dont use auto overclocks. If you can, try to measure with IR thermometer


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## Recca29 (Sep 2, 2017)

Dave_K said:


> Specs?


check system specs in the profile.


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## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

Recca29 said:


> check system specs in the profile.


Yeah sorry i didnt see it :d


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## cadaveca (Sep 2, 2017)

You'll note that ASRock was the only OEM who sent me AMD boards for review. I cannot recommend any other brands because of that.. clearly they didn't want me covering these particular products... because I got the Intel boards Z270 and X299, just not AMD. If it hasn't been covered on the front page of TPU, you should not buy it.  That includes Threadripper CPUs.


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## silentbogo (Sep 2, 2017)

infrared said:


> I think this is all fairly common sense tbh.


Not when you buy a motherboard which says "Overclocking", "Highest performance" and "Everlasting quality" all over the box.
Or names of famous overclockers, like Fatal1ty (damn you AsRock).

This is the reason I gave up explaining to customers why they should not overclock G3258 on a $45 H81 board. 
They simply don't listen, because:
a) The manual says you can do it
b) Some dude on youtube says you can do it
c) Conventional wisdom (or as I call it sheep syndrome, or mass stupidity). "My friend did it, so who are you to tell me not to!"


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 2, 2017)

infrared said:


> I think this is all fairly common sense tbh. If you're buying a low end board you obviously aren't getting the same quality of components, so you know it's going to be hotter. Also if you're overclocking a 6-8 core CPU then you should know it's going to be consuming a huge amount of juice. You should be monitoring temperatures when oc'ing. And you definitely should have airflow going over the motherboard.
> 
> So hypothetically if you bought the bottom of the barrel AM4 motherboard paired it with an R7, put it in a case with no airflow, dialed the voltage up to 1.45v and it barbecued itself.. well, no sympathy really!



Those who buy the mid or lower boards should add direct airflow over them or water. This has been the same news for 990FX vs 970. I didnt go with a Crosshair but with a Sabertooth and the chip/temps are within normal range for load.

By the way Fatal1ty is not an Overclocker but a well known Gamer...


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## Frick (Sep 2, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> This is the reason I gave up explaining to customers why they should not overclock G3258 on a $45 H81 board.
> They simply don't listen, because:
> a) The manual says you can do it
> b) Some dude on youtube says you can do it
> c) Conventional wisdom (or as I call it sheep syndrome, or mass stupidity). "My friend did it, so who are you to tell me not to!"



Not to mention you used to be able to overclock anything on anything.


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## Vya Domus (Sep 2, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> Not when you buy a motherboard which says "Overclocking", "Highest performance" and "Everlasting quality" all over the box.
> Or names of famous overclockers, like Fatal1ty (damn you AsRock).



Honestly after dozens of years of advertisements people should know better.

And if they don't , nothing is going to change that now.


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## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> You'll note that ASRock was the only OEM who sent me AMD boards for review. I cannot recommend any other brands because of that.. clearly they didn't want me covering these particular products... because I got the Intel boards Z270 and X299, just not AMD. If it hasn't been covered on the front page of TPU, you should not buy it.  That includes Threadripper CPUs.


I dont see a single reason why you shouldnt recommend them. Their quality is good all across the spectrum, if i had the cash i would probably buy Taichi any day of the week.


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## uuuaaaaaa (Sep 2, 2017)

Good old MSI uses Nikos mosfets on all of their AM4 lineup, even the top end X370 Titanium. I have those on my MSI 970 gaming too, what a waste of money that board is.


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## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

uuuaaaaaa said:


> Good old MSI uses Nikos mosfets on all of their AM4 lineup, even the top end X370 Titanium. I have those on my MSI 970 gaming too, what a waste of money that board is.


See the thermal image how frickin hot it runs. I watched that video and even messaged builzoid if my calculations are correct so i can perform them like he does


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## Sempron Guy (Sep 2, 2017)

I've seen the VRMS on my Asrock x370 Taichi go as high as 90c. That's before I positioned a fan on the upper vent of the case directly blowing fresh air at the mosfet heatsink. Now it just hovers around the mid 60s.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 2, 2017)

Sempron Guy said:


> I've seen the VRMS on my Asrock x370 Taichi go as high as 90c. That's before I positioned a fan on the upper vent of the case directly blowing fresh air at the mosfet heatsink. Now it just hovers around the mid 60s.



Yup all boards could do better with direct airflow on the vrms

In my case with stress testing I should add a hsf right over where the socket sits on the back of my board.


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## MrGenius (Sep 2, 2017)

Seeing a problem where none exists + FUD = Moving on...

Have a nice day!


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## natr0n (Sep 2, 2017)

Give me the worst vrms ill put a fan on them. Heat no longer becomes an issue.

It's like if your gpu came without fans would you mindlessly use it as is ?


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## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

natr0n said:


> Give me the worst vrms ill put a fan on them. Heat no longer becomes an issue.
> 
> It's like if your gpu came without fans would you mindlessly use it as is ?


Why would you stuff more fans into your Pc just because you bought mobo with shit VRMs? Most people dont or wont do that, thats why i made this post to show stuff you shouldn't buy. The VRMs have their limits, if you measure 100°C on the heatsink, the internal parts of the mosfet run over 130°C


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## thesmokingman (Sep 2, 2017)

natr0n said:


> Give me the worst vrms ill put a fan on them. Heat no longer becomes an issue.
> 
> It's like if your gpu came without fans would you mindlessly use it as is ?



Of he acts like his case exists in a world without fans... omg?


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## Hood (Sep 2, 2017)

I have my rear case fan reversed, filtered, and angled towards the VRM/CPU/RAM.  It took 10 minutes and cost nothing (I already had the 120mm filter).  
 Looks like time to clean again...


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## Dave_K (Sep 2, 2017)

Hood said:


> I have my rear case fan reversed, filtered, and angled towards the VRM/CPU/RAM.  It took 10 minutes and cost nothing (I already had the 120mm filter). Looks like time to clean again...


Bit dusty huh? Not feeling like anyone would do that just because of the shitty VRMs on the mobo they bought. Interesting solution btw.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 2, 2017)

Dave_K said:


> Why would you stuff more fans into your Pc just because you bought mobo with shit VRMs? Most people dont or wont do that, thats why i made this post to show stuff you shouldn't buy. The VRMs have their limits, if you measure 100°C on the heatsink, the internal parts of the mosfet run over 130°C



Because fans are cheaper than motherboards, plus mitigate most issues.  Of course there is always the propensity of pushing vrms too hard with voltage that they deteriorate, but that's all circuits, not all can push further than others.


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## Final_Fighter (Sep 2, 2017)

The manufacturers built their boards to just barely get the job done hoping people would not really notice so that they can make more money. its nice to see a thread like this regardless of all the people who are giving the opp flak. i can tell you from experience that the manufacturers do have people who monitor this and other online threads to see what people are saying about their products. if enough noise is made they WILL make the necessary adjustments.

as pointed by cadaveca, asrock was the only manufacturer to send him any review boards and it also just so happens they have some of the highest ratings on all the online shopping sites for their am4 boards.


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## Athlon2K15 (Sep 2, 2017)

ASRock AM4 motherboards kill m.2 SSDs.


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## cadaveca (Sep 2, 2017)

Athlon2K15 said:


> ASRock AM4 motherboards kill m.2 SSDs.


Not my 256 GB 950 PRO or my Intel 535, running since before the launch with no issues.


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## Filip Georgievski (Sep 2, 2017)

Most good board with good VRMs would do a good OC with a lower voltage since they provide good and clean stable voltage on the CPU.
My old but still decent ASUS board that i bought second hand does a 3.8Ghz OC on my I5 750 with voltage as low as 1.285 which was suprising given the fact that older chips are more power hungry.
Mind you, it is a budget board, look it up in my specs.


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## HTC (Sep 2, 2017)

Athlon2K15 said:


> ASRock AM4 motherboards kill m.2 SSDs.



Source, please?

I have a Taichi and, though i don't have an M.2 SSD, i do plan to get one later.


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## R@stamau5e (Sep 2, 2017)

I've got the lowest end ASRock b350 board the AB350m and OC a 1600 to 3.8 (I can go to 3.9-4.0 but the extra vcore required doesn't justify the 100mhz increase) and I have no issues with VRM temps as per my SS below, I have a generic mid tower case with 3x bitfenix xtreme 120mm running @+12v (2x front intake, 1x rear exhaust) and the stock Wraith cooler.


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## Final_Fighter (Sep 2, 2017)

my brothers been using a 128gb ssd in his asrock killer sli/ac board sense ryzen first released.  if you have a source please let us know about it. you may be right and i would hate to have him loose his m.2 over this. plus i planned on getting the same setup in a couple of months.


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## Hood (Sep 2, 2017)

Dave_K said:


> Bit dusty huh? Not feeling like anyone would do that just because of the shitty VRMs on the mobo they bought. Interesting solution btw.


Yeah, mostly because I smoke, and sit about 3 feet away from my case.  My Asus Z97 Deluxe has fairly good board components, I just don't like VRM temps in the 80s, and this fan dropped them about 15c.


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## Athlon2K15 (Sep 2, 2017)

HTC said:


> Source, please?
> 
> I have a Taichi and, though i don't have an M.2 SSD, i do plan to get one later.



 Me, ASRock Gaming K4 killed a WD Black and 960 EVO out of nowhere both times drive was dead within a week of testing.


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## Steevo (Sep 2, 2017)

I stopped using MSI  years ago after a horrible experience with a shitty but expensive board, and 4 or 5 dead Northbridge HS/F combos.


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## HTC (Sep 2, 2017)

Athlon2K15 said:


> Me, ASRock Gaming K4 killed a WD Black and 960 EVO out of nowhere both times drive was dead within a week of testing.



Ouch: that sucks, dude!

You sure the board is @ fault? Could some other thing, maybe! Perhaps something with your board specificly is faulty and, if so, i'd suggest you contact AsRock and tell them about it ASAP: your board may need be replaced.


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## cadaveca (Sep 2, 2017)

Athlon2K15 said:


> Me, ASRock Gaming K4 killed a WD Black and 960 EVO out of nowhere both times drive was dead within a week of testing.


Well, that's probably the worst board for AM4 ASRock has, so no surprise. Probably just an assembly error that QC didn't catch.

I had big hopes for AM4 MSI, but then I never got one, so to me, that speaks volumes about the platform in general.

Also, I'm pretty sure I just posted the review of that board, and had another 950 PRO in it since launch... so your issue is a one-off, or I'd be livid, an no review would have been posted. 

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASRock/X370_Gaming_K4/


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## Athlon2K15 (Sep 2, 2017)

HTC said:


> Ouch: that suck, dude!
> 
> You sure the board is @ fault? Could some other thing, maybe! Perhaps something with your board specificly is faulty and, if so, i'd suggest you contact AsRock and tell them about it ASAP: your board may need be replaced.



Likely had a janky m.2 slot. i ditched the board and grabbed a CH6 now.


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## Athlon2K15 (Sep 2, 2017)

cadaveca said:


> Well, that's probably the worst board for AM4 ASRock has, so no surprise. Probably just an assembly error that QC didn't catch.
> 
> I had big hopes for AM4 MSI, but then I never got one, so to me, that speaks volumes about the platform in general.
> 
> ...



I don't understand how you not getting a board says anything about the platform.


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## HTC (Sep 2, 2017)

Athlon2K15 said:


> Likely had a janky m.2 slot. i ditched the board and grabbed a CH6 now.



So it was something specific to your board and not to AsRock boards in general: way to blow something out of proportion, dude ...

In any case, i'd complain to AsRock to make sure i'd get refunded for the 2 devices lost due to their faulty board, assuming that turns out to be the culprit.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 3, 2017)

I was thinking the Gaming Carbon Pro looked well built vs the titanium model... but what Am I thinking, they used to have the OC series, so to me these boards just mean, install, set to defaults and game.


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## commission3r (Sep 3, 2017)

No issues here! Actually it's amazing.
1600x @ 3.8 with 1.2065v in bios although hwmonitor & cpuz report 1.24v and ram @ 2933 with 1.2v
Thank you asrock


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## erocker (Sep 3, 2017)

uuuaaaaaa said:


> Good old MSI uses Nikos mosfets on all of their AM4 lineup, even the top end X370 Titanium. I have those on my MSI 970 gaming too, what a waste of money that board is.


Yep! Almost 6 months ago this was reported.


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## Dave_K (Sep 3, 2017)

Final_Fighter said:


> The manufacturers built their boards to just barely get the job done hoping people would not really notice so that they can make more money. its nice to see a thread like this regardless of all the people who are giving the opp flak. i can tell you from experience that the manufacturers do have people who monitor this and other online threads to see what people are saying about their products. if enough noise is made they WILL make the necessary adjustments.
> 
> as pointed by cadaveca, asrock was the only manufacturer to send him any review boards and it also just so happens they have some of the highest ratings on all the online shopping sites for their am4 boards.


MSI ordered Gamers Nexus to change title of the XPower breakdown because they called the VRM crappy and MSI didnt like it.


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## Final_Fighter (Sep 3, 2017)

Dave_K said:


> MSI ordered Gamers Nexus to change title of the XPower breakdown because they called the VRM crappy and MSI didnt like it.



Thats msi using its leverage against a reviewing site. this is why threads like this have more power because they cant tell us they wont send us review samples anymore and destroy our way of making ends meet. what they did was a crappy move to Gamers Nexus.


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## Binder87 (Jan 6, 2018)

Hi, 
Is anyone maybe have some experience with the msi b350 gaming plus?
It doesn't have a vrm sensor (yep i was stupid). I know it has the same PCB as the tomahawk, no clue regarding the vrm. I run it with a ryzen 5 1600 @1,41v, noctua u12s as the CPU cooler . regular case airflow basically...2 front intakes, one side intake, one rear exhaust.  I don't have an access to a proper infrared thermometer or a camera,at least not now, so i was wondering if anyone knows or has an approximation on the operating temps of the vrms...would appreciate any input.


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## Hood (Jan 6, 2018)

Athlon2K15 said:


> I don't understand how you not getting a board says anything about the platform.


Because of TPU's reputation as an honest hardware review site, and cadaveca's reputation as a careful reviewer who points out issues that other reviewers may ignore, like high board component temps and slower than normal SSD speeds.  Large companies like MSI, Asus, and Gigabyte would certainly want coverage from a site like TPU, unless they already knew the results would make them lose sales.  Hence, the lack of review boards "speaks volumes".


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 6, 2018)

Forgive me if this has been said already, I only glanced over the preceding comments, but wouldn't the heat problems go away by installing some quality heatsinks to the VRMs directly or using better ones if already present and then improving airflow? Kinda seems like common sense..


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## Mussels (Jan 6, 2018)

100% seen this on my MSI X370, had to put a fan over the VRM's or i was thermal throttling the CPU at 1.3v

I mean i still got a good OC out of the system before it happened, but its a weakspot of the MSI boards for sure


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## Binder87 (Jan 6, 2018)

Soooo sorry for being a party pooper (I know I am, my wife tells me that often ) , but is there anyone with some form of info for me


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## Final_Fighter (Jan 6, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> Forgive me if this has been said already, I only glanced over the preceding comments, but wouldn't the heat problems go away by installing some quality heatsinks to the VRMs directly or using better ones if already present and then improving airflow? Kinda seems like common sense..



true but the problem is many of these boards are all around the same in price as ones that do not have this problem. its better to just know what you are buying before hand and get a board that will not need to be modified. but if you already have a board with this issue then i would recommend doing as you suggested.


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## GoldenX (Jan 6, 2018)

Binder87 said:


> Soooo sorry for being a party pooper (I know I am, my wife tells me that often ) , but is there anyone with some form of info for me


Sorry, not much, a friend has the B350M version, and he is fine, but with a R3-1200.

In my country if you have a good reputation as a car critic, car companies stop sending you cars for review, Renault are the worst at that, they refuse to send any car to anyone who showed a crash test of one of their SUVs.


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## Binder87 (Jan 7, 2018)

I never had any sort of thermal throttle , even under 12+ hours of prime blend. Didn't try to push something which ignites the vrm like IBT, since I'll never use my PC in that way, even prime blend is kind of an overkill as I only game basically...
I just wanna know my vrm doesn't constantly run at 90+c . even though they might not throttle , I rather them not gedrade and die on me within few months :/. I guess I'll have to get an infrared thermometer .


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## ArbitraryAffection (Jan 7, 2018)

Erm. I have the MSI B350 PC MATE. Which is probably terrible. But it was cheap lol. I am running 1800X at 4.025GHz @1.35V and it seems to be fine so far. No throttling or anything. But the VRM heatsink does get very warm to the touch. Am I running a risk of damaging the _CPU _in addition to the motherboard? Would it be advisable to get a new board, if so, which is the best price/performance board with good quality VRMs on it?

Thanks. :3


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## Binder87 (Jan 7, 2018)

The only risk to the CPU is if while your vrm is dying itll send a voltage spike to the CPU somehow..
And if you have the money , considering you have an 1800x, yes, replace your mobo. I would if I could financially , and I have a 6 core so I'm probably fine...I'll just lower my oc down a notch.
According to buildzoid,
http://www.gigabyte.us/Motherboard/GA-AX370-Gaming-K5-rev-10#kf
this is an ok mobo for a decent price.
Asus x370 pro is also good, and cheaper.


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 7, 2018)

Final_Fighter said:


> true but the problem is many of these boards are all around the same in price as ones that do not have this problem. its better to just know what you are buying before hand and get a board that will not need to be modified. but if you already have a board with this issue then i would recommend doing as you suggested.


However for those people who already have such a board, would it not be productive to offer a solution to solve this problem? Heatsinks are cheap, easy to install and very effective.


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## Binder87 (Jan 7, 2018)

Heatsinks are not enough though if the vrm works to its limits and there's no airflow...
You can have better heatsinks, but if the vrm struggles with doing its job coz its poor quality +there's an aio on the CPU and no airflow even a better heatsink won't solve the problem. It's a combo of better heatsinks and better vrms from the manufacturer side , while for the consumers, I guess the easiest will be to put a fan on the vrm's heatsink or reverse the rear exhaust as an Intake to blow on them and use the top (if it has space) for exhaust...it sucks though as a product that's manufactured with the ability to do a task (oc also an 8 core) should do it without blowing up or dying after a year :/...

Just a minor update,
I ordered a cheap infrared thermal sensor from Ali express...probably poor quality but I just need an estimated reading of my vrm temp.. I'll try to measure the cpu socket temp with it and compare it to the socket temp sensor on the mobo to see how off it is...hopefully its within no more than few degrees off. I think it might be relevant for some as probably the vrm I have on my mobo is the same one as many other MSI b350's , would even dare to say most of them. So it can give a rough approximation of the temps under x load on a 6 core..
I'll post it when I'll get the thermometer.


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## jaggerwild (Jan 7, 2018)

@Dave_K , Whats yer source of this article(you didn't quote them), Or you just happen to have a flir sitting around? And 6 motherboard that r junk?


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## Final_Fighter (Jan 7, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> However for those people who already have such a board, would it not be productive to offer a solution to solve this problem? Heatsinks are cheap, easy to install and very effective.



I completely agree with you.

 i was saying that a little resaerch before buying will help prevent having to work on their motherboard because they can get one that does not have this issue for close to the same price.


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 7, 2018)

Final_Fighter said:


> I was saying that a little research before buying will help prevent having to work on their motherboard because they can get one that does not have this issue for close to the same price.


And I completely agree with your point.


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## Assimilator (Jan 7, 2018)

This is disappointing. AMD should lean on the board manufacturers to ensure that they equip their parts with decent VRM cooling - hopefully the Ryzen refresh will address this.


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## dj-electric (Jan 7, 2018)

2017 was a huge learning year for motherboard makers and i'm sure this year there will be more boards with good VRM cooling.


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## silentbogo (Jan 7, 2018)

Binder87 said:


> I ordered a cheap infrared thermal sensor from Ali express...probably poor quality but I just need an estimated reading of my vrm temp..


Just a cheap pyrometer(laser thermometer) should be enough. Bought one many years ago for my workshop and it was very useful for many things, from checking temperatures on ICs and PCB while soldering or doing rework, to household stuff like checking window leakage and heating at my house. You just need to get used to proper aiming when measuring T of small areas like mosfets. Best $8 I ever spent.



Assimilator said:


> This is disappointing. AMD should lean on the board manufacturers to ensure that they equip their parts with decent VRM cooling - hopefully the Ryzen refresh will address this.


In most cases the problem is not cooling, but the quality of mosfets, and OEMs decision to cut the cost at risk of introducing new failure points.
Not just for motherboards, but also videocards.


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## HD64G (Jan 7, 2018)

We just need to become smarter before we buy a motherboard. If we don't need oc go for the cheap one but don't expect to last forever. But for oc without damaging the pc health you need at least a decent one and they don't come for cheap usually. Go for a close to $120 at least. I have seen cheap mobos duying without ever the cpu into it being oced. Just from operating for over 5 years. And others withstand heavy oced cpus for much more. PSUs and mobos quality are collarate to the price *usually*. Discounts and some badly engineered models are another story.


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## Binder87 (Jan 7, 2018)

HD64G said:


> We just need to become smarter before we buy a motherboard. If we don't need oc go for the cheap one but don't expect to last forever. But for oc without damaging the pc health you need at least a decent one and they don't come for cheap usually. Go for a close to $120 at least. I have seen cheap mobos duying without ever the cpu into it being oced. Just from operating for over 5 years. And others withstand heavy oced cpus for much more. PSUs and mobos quality are collarate to the price *usually*. Discounts and some badly engineered models are another story.



While I generally agree with you, still, there's a major flaw from the manufacturer side. You can't sell a product and market it as "supporting ryzen" and "over clocking" and not make sure it actually stands for what it promises. If you cheap out on the mosfets and you know (and if they didn't know that over there at MSI /Asus/gigabyte that's disturbing) they can blow up or die within a year or two when overclocking an 8 core, don't market those products as having the ability to do so, period. The consumer is stupid, and that's perfectly fine. If my product from a reputable company says it can do this and that, it should do it without hazards, period. While I agree we need to become smarter for our own good, coz obviously you cannot trust the manufacturers, which is sad, it shouldn't be like that. If I would buy a mobo from some unknown junk company, and something happens, yeah, I fucked up.
But currently Asus, gigabyte MSI and asrock are the best mobo manufacturers , and all of them supposedly take pride in the quality of their products. Even if you buy a lower end bmw or mercedes car with some special feature it supposed tp have, while you know it wont be " as good" , you still know it shoulnt just die if you use that feature.  If your product can't do what its supposed to do, don't make it, or improve it, as simple as that. If the average consumer buy a b350 mobo which states overclockability for all ryzen chips, it should do it, at least without blowing up, that's basic. Its perfectly understandable if a higher end mobo with better vrms and power delivery will help me push for a 4.0 GHz compared to idk , 3,85 with a lower end mobo. That's fine, but risking killing the mobo because you didn't make sure the vrm can withstand what's it supposed to do? F that!


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## HD64G (Jan 7, 2018)

Binder87 said:


> While I generally agree with you, still, there's a major flaw from the manufacturer side. You can't sell a product and market it as "supporting ryzen" and "over clocking" and not make sure it actually stands for what it promises. If you cheap out on the mosfets and you know (and if they didn't know that over there at MSI /Asus/gigabyte that's disturbing) they can blow up or die within a year or two when overclocking an 8 core, don't market those products as having the ability to do so, period. The consumer is stupid, and that's perfectly fine. If my product from a reputable company says it can do this and that, it should do it without hazards, period. While I agree we need to become smarter for our own good, coz obviously you cannot trust the manufacturers, which is sad, it shouldn't be like that. If I would buy a mobo from some unknown junk company, and something happens, yeah, I fucked up.
> But currently Asus, gigabyte MSI and asrock are the best mobo manufacturers , and all of them supposedly take pride in the quality of their products. Even if you buy a lower end bmw or mercedes car with some special feature it supposed tp have, while you know it wont be " as good" , you still know it shoulnt just die if you use that feature.  If your product can't do what its supposed to do, don't make it, or improve it, as simple as that. If the average consumer buy a b350 mobo which states overclockability for all ryzen chips, it should do it, at least without blowing up, that's basic. Its perfectly understandable if a higher end mobo with better vrms and power delivery will help me push for a 4.0 GHz compared to idk , 3,85 with a lower end mobo. That's fine, but risking killing the mobo because you didn't make sure the vrm can withstand what's it supposed to do? F that!


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## lukart (Jan 17, 2018)

Steevo said:


> I stopped using MSI  years ago after a horrible experience with a shitty but expensive board, and 4 or 5 dead Northbridge HS/F combos.



Same and I do feel that their Bios could be better if you do enjoy overclocking.
For the M.2 killing with Asrock boards, sounds nonsense, I had several gen of their motherboards, almost always using M.2 and not a single one died on me and these machines actually run almost all day long.

Now, for the issue of VRMs, I think if you overclock you should do a bit of research and know that you should opt for a better X370 like the Taichi or Crosshair if you have a high end R7 Ryzen CPU. 
If you are running stock, "most" of the B350's will do fine with any Ryzen CPU, they have to, otherwise they wouldn't pass the QC.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 17, 2018)

If anyone is concerned about vrms, add hestsinks and a fan to them...

Fyi AMD parts are comfortable with 1.3-1.6Vcore.


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## Binder87 (Jan 19, 2018)

No, you shouldn't add heatsinks and fans to them, if they're marketed as oc mobos for am4 ,8 cores included, they should be able to do so within the accepted voltages without blowing up.

And no, you should do your research if you want to achieve the best oc possible due to features, better power delivery etc. Regardless of research or not, if a b350 supports ocing an 8 core, as long as its not extreme voltages, it should do so and that's it. The degree of oc headroom opts for research ,that's luxury, but if it supports oc for an 8 core and its a respectable company , I don't need to do a research to make sure my vrm doesn't turn into ash at 1,4 volts


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## RejZoR (Jan 19, 2018)

It's why I've sticked 2x 40mm fans on my X99, one on VRM heatsink and one on mosfets heatsink on the other side of the board. Just to be sure, even thoguh they supposedly aren't required.


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## Vya Domus (Jan 19, 2018)

Just making sure there is minimal airflow over the VRMs can significantly lower the risk of them blowing up , no matter the quality or how much current you push through them.


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## Binder87 (Jan 19, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Just making sure there is minimal airflow over the VRMs can significantly lower the risk of them blowing up , no matter the quality or how much current you push through them.


But that's the thing , the b350 issues happens with normal minima airflow. Even cases with 1-2 front intakes and 1 exhaust (typical closed case scenario) has issues...its very simple , the vrms are too crappy, and the heatsinks are junk as well ,  that's why an 8 core is just too much for them, hence they shouldn't be marketed as oc supported for it. Some of them even running the risk of overheating running an 8 core at stock. Put a 1.45v oc on the Asus c6h for example, with minimal airflow, and see how the vrm temps are still good, simply a matter of the quality of components. You can't promise x and not deliver it,  not companies in the caliber of the big mobo manufacturers.


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## Vya Domus (Jan 19, 2018)

Minimal airflow directly *over *the VRMs , not indirect airflow. The VRM spot is pretty much dead in terms of airflow even with a ton of case fans unless you have a top-down type CPU cooler.


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## Binder87 (Jan 19, 2018)

It doesn't matter, you shouldn't add any addition, you shouldn't add any airflow over the vrm, again, this should be suitable for the most standard case airflow scheme. I shouldn't add even a single fan blade over the vrm to prevent it from burning itself, I don't care how much even just by blowing on them with my mouth I can cool them (like buildzoid did). The vrms can and should manage with the most minimal and standard case airflow scheme , and with an aio and not a vertically diracted fan, as is definitely heppening when the vrms are of higher quality as well as the heatsink. If it was like you said, it wouldn't have been an issue to begin with. The solution is easy, we all know it, its not that, its the fact the problem is there to begin with , when it shouldn't .


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## erocker (Jan 19, 2018)

Wow, okay Guys. No. Don't ever add extra cooling to your systems. It's obviously really bad.


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## Binder87 (Jan 19, 2018)

Yeah, let's take what I said, add a nonexistent subtext , and twist it around. You're right, were all just anti cooling dudes, including me, a guy with a midi tower packed with 5 case fans.
I guess were all just dumb, hell why it was even a massively reported issue? Why it was heavily criticized? We're all just crybabies, there's obviously nothing wrong here at all. You wanna put a bandaid on the shitty parts some reputable companies sell and pretend all is good? Good for you. I don't.


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## erocker (Jan 19, 2018)

Perhaps word your sentences better if your going to come here and give folks your scolding and attitudes. It woks much better when you communicate properly

Cool. Well, stop giving bad advice and we won't have a problem. "You shouldn't" and "You shouldn't have to" are two different things.


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## sneekypeet (Jan 20, 2018)

Please stick to the topic at hand. If you have personal issues with someone in the thread, feel free to take them to PMs. 

On the topic of the thread, marketing hype is marketing hype! It is easy to state any motherboard is overclockable, as long as there are options to do so! Whether you use a mid-range board with lower end components is your choice. If issues arise, such as heat, there are two ways to go.... One is to add cooling so that you can achieve the desired result.... Two, sell it off and grab a board that is capable of what you want to do.


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## OneMoar (Jan 21, 2018)

vrms are perfectly happy running at 90c 90c is not a problem
once again amature 'enthusiast' talking about stuff they know little to nothing about
120c or so is about when I get worried

most vrms will operate at 100% of there rated current handling capacity at 125c its why vrm's are rated by X AMPS@ Y Temperature

now the colder you run them the longer they will last and the more abuse they will take but no AM4 cpu on the planet is going to peak at even half of the vrms maximum output A try more like 120 or maybe a 140A with the worst 1700x chip you can get thats 4.2Ghz @ 1.45v which if you daily that voltage and aren't under a full custom water block you are asking for it 

yes the most of the x3xx vrm's aren't overbuilt  90% efficiency monsters .. they don't need to be in the worst case you are nowhere close to blowing it up

you wanna know what the vrm is really rated for there are numbers on them read and google the datasheets are usually freely available

now if they are 80C vrms and there isn't many of those out there and they would be flat stupid to use them I would be a tempted to stick a heatsink to them


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## Binder87 (Jan 22, 2018)

I agree , but unfortunately, most b350's , If you oc an 8 core on them with 1.385-1.41v , which is perfectly reasonable to use for 24/7 usage with a good CPU cooler to hit that 3.9-4.0ghz , will run over 100c, sometimes over 110c on the vrm when running at full load and plateauing the temp, that's if you use an aio for example so you don't have a good airflow over the vrm. Now while the MOSFETs will be fine I agree, the problem is the capacitors , which are rated for lower temps (105ish c), usually around 5k hours on those mobos....it means you can kill your capacitors in less than a year with those settings when running full load of course, which most def sucks. And yes, strapping a fan on the vrm pretty much solves it, its just frustrating to me I have to do it for something which should be rated for it by the manufacturer.


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## Assimilator (Jan 22, 2018)

Hmmm. I'm starting to think that old-school cases, with a fan over the CPU area, might come back into style with the rise of AIO CLCs.


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## phill (Jan 22, 2018)

Finding this thread rather interesting.. Something to definitely think of when buying my first Ryzen setup....


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## Binder87 (Jan 22, 2018)

phill said:


> Finding this thread rather interesting.. Something to definitely think of when buying my first Ryzen setup....


Most def. 
If you buy a 4-6 core its not really an issue with normal case airflow. 
If you pair a b350 with a ryzen 7, either mount a fan on the vrm, which IMO is the easiest and cheapest (although annoying ), or just buy a decent x370 with good vrms and a good  heatsink.


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## phill (Jan 22, 2018)

Well if I know what the good boards are, I'd buy them anyway!!   I don't think buying cheap is always the best option... 

Was very excited about the MSI Titanium was on offer on a website but to hear its got poor VRM cooling is sadly a bit of a put off


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## EarthDog (Jan 22, 2018)

Nothing new from amd boards honestly. It has been like this for ages. At least now its not like 3 boards 'really' handle overclocking, but there is still a concern.

X299 has this issue as well depending...


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## OneMoar (Jan 22, 2018)

Binder87 said:


> I agree , but unfortunately, most b350's , If you oc an 8 core on them with 1.385-1.41v , which is perfectly reasonable to use for 24/7 usage with a good CPU cooler to hit that 3.9-4.0ghz , will run over 100c, sometimes over 110c on the vrm when running at full load and plateauing the temp, that's if you use an aio for example so you don't have a good airflow over the vrm. Now while the MOSFETs will be fine I agree, the problem is the capacitors , which are rated for lower temps (105ish c), usually around 5k hours on those mobos....it means you can kill your capacitors in less than a year with those settings when running full load of course, which most def sucks. And yes, strapping a fan on the vrm pretty much solves it, its just frustrating to me I have to do it for something which should be rated for it by the manufacturer.



the caps are never going to get that hot they might see 75-80c if the vrms are maxed out with no airflow not even convection

110c is still 15c away from there maximum operating temp

to date nobody has killed there caps or there vrms on any of these boards ... if what you said was true people would have a bunch of blown up boards by now

even a 3+1 phase is going to handel 200A@125c a 1800x at full burn only draws 120A


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## EarthDog (Jan 22, 2018)

OneMoar said:


> even a 3+1 phase is going to handel 200A@125c a 1800x at full burn only draws 120A


If it were only that easy... 

If it is as simple as that, why did we see 50% of boards that 'supported' bulldozer, etc throttle when an FX8370 was in there? I don't get the sensationalism as its being presented either, but, this is a real issue regardless if things go 'boom' or not.


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## OneMoar (Jan 22, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> If it were only that easy...
> 
> If it is as simple as that, why did we see 50% of boards that 'supported' bulldozer, etc throttle when an FX8370 was in there? I don't get the sensationalism as its being presented either, but, this is a real issue regardless if things go 'boom' or not.



FX is a completely different beast tho it draws a shit ton of amps 
this is not the case with ryzen


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## EarthDog (Jan 22, 2018)

Then why are there issues?


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## John Naylor (Jan 22, 2018)

I have long ago learned that choosing PC components by "brand" is a fool's errand.  Example .... which is true ?

a)  Corsair makes great PSUs
b)  Corsair makes good PSUs
c)  Corsair makes average PSUs
d) Corsair makes crappy PSUs

It's a double trick question because 1)  Corsair doesn't **make** any PSUs, the buy from OEMs and 2) Corsair sells all of the above.  For another example, pop over to the failure database over at storagereview.com and you see that Seagate made the most reliable model HD ever and the least reliable HD ever.  Also, over time, companies have changed their market focus as margins take priority over quality.     Asus created Asrock cause they wanted to build cheap MoBos for the builder market w/o compromising the quality enthusiast reputation.  After spinning it off to an independent company, AsRock's's reputation for thin warped boards, leaking caps and 1 / 2 year warrantees became a thing of the past. 

After being an almost exclusively Asus shop for a dozen years, we started to see problems in reviews, our own experiences , component selection and Tech Support with MoBos and GFX cards starting in the Z87 era.  Started using a mix of boards and use experiences were better overall with MSI and Gigabyte.   When Z170 rolled around, one thing that is much easier to determine os the audio solution.  Almost all boards from Asus under $150 were using ALC887 or 892 wheras MSI and Gigabyte were providing ALC1150.  And by the time you upped ya budget to get ALC 1150, it took the cost advantage of H or B series MoBo off the table.   Starting with Z270 generation.the other manufacturers started following suit.   So, by the time you get a board with an acceptable audio solution, power deliver system / VRMs, the cost advantage of Ryzen and / or non k processors MoBo / CPU combos pretty much evaporates.

If you look at RMA rates for just about any component, they are all usually perty close.   But if you look at individual models, RMA rates vary wildly.  Overall failure rates last period (2017-08-01) among the Big 4 ranged only from 1.43% to 1.63% .  Asus had the lowest overall failure rate but had the two boards with the highest % of failures.  For Z170 / Z270 boards, the failure rates were:

1,41% MSI
1,63% ASUS
1,97% Gigabyte
2,94% ASRock

Boards w/ > 2% failure rate included:

_5,71% ASUS Z170I-PRO Gaming
5,59% ASUS X99 Strix Gaming_
4,70% MSI B150M PRO-VDH D3
_4,17% ASUS B150I PRO GAMING/WIFI/AURA
3,81% ASRock FM2A58M-VG3+
3,45% MSI X99A Gaming 7
3,17% ASUS X99-A II_
2,23% MSI Z170A Gaming M3
2,19% ASUS Z170-A
2,08% GIGABYTE GA-Z170XP-SLI

Other than model specific differences like componentry and failure rate, for the most part performance is on par with few exceptions ... Factors which are pretty much "brand" other than "model" specific are a)  BIOS .... preferences will depend on what you are used to and Asus maintains the lead here to my eyes by a hair over MSI ... Gigabyte is a bit back from there.  And b) Tech Support wise, I have had the best experiences last 4 years with Giga, followed closely by MSI with  Asus trailing quite  a bit behind (waiting 3 months for a warranty replacement and a promised BIOS fix that never came along, among others).

Our current recommended budget system includes as options the $119 MSI Z370 SLI Plus (10 Power Phases / ALC 1220) and, if user has Giga preference,  the Gigabyte equivalent Z370XP SLI ($134).


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## EarthDog (Jan 22, 2018)

Your explanations can be half as long as still accomplish the same thing.. but I have to say thanks to this dissertation. 

Just wish it mentioned AMD... not intel since this thread is about AMD, LOL!


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 22, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> Your explanations can be half as long as still accomplish the same thing.. but I have to say thanks to this dissertation.


Personally admire the level of detail shown. It says; " Hi, I've done some research and here's what I found. ".


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## Beertintedgoggles (Jan 22, 2018)

This takes me back to the "good ol' days" with the socket A boards of looking for an IR image of the motherboard under load to find which chips needed attention whether it be adding heatsinks or merely extra airflow.  I do agree that it is a little misleading to market a lower-end board for overclocking; however, I can't say I've ever paid much attention to the marketing on the box when basing my purchases.


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## EarthDog (Jan 22, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> Personally admire the level of detail shown. It says; " Hi, I've done some research and here's what I found. ".



Not sure what it really has to do with amd vrms but... yeah. Thorough post on return rates for intel products. God bless that hardware.fr site which has given these out for years.


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## OneMoar (Jan 22, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> Then why are there issues?


 what issues ?
nobody is blowing boards up nobody is throttling with the exception of asrocks buggy ass bios


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## GoldenX (Jan 22, 2018)

Assimilator said:


> Hmmm. I'm starting to think that old-school cases, with a fan over the CPU area, might come back into style with the rise of AIO CLCs.


I'm using one of those.


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## infrared (Jan 22, 2018)

EarthDog said:


> Then why are there issues?


There basically aren't issues. People push budget hardware too hard (because marketing says they can OC) and then realize why the more expensive boards exist lol.

Here's a thought: Do we have higher [unrealistic?] expectations of low end boards now that the high end boards' vrm are so ludicrously overkill?


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## EarthDog (Jan 22, 2018)

No. That perception hasnt changed in over a decade.


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## GoldenX (Jan 22, 2018)

Once saw one of those nForce 4 AM3+ motherboards, rated for 95w TDP maximum, trying to hold a FX 8350. Poor thing shut itself down under any kind of load.
I thought AMD would set the bar for the X370 and B350 chipsets so manufacturers didn't cheap out like that.


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## phill (Jan 22, 2018)

Beertintedgoggles said:


> This takes me back to the "good ol' days" with the socket A boards of looking for an IR image of the motherboard under load to find which chips needed attention whether it be adding heatsinks or merely extra airflow.  I do agree that it is a little misleading to market a lower-end board for overclocking; however, I can't say I've ever paid much attention to the marketing on the box when basing my purchases.



I love and still own my socket A board..
But surely trying to 'cheap' out buying a cheap overclocking board never works.  Skimping on things only makes you end up paying twice or twice as much... I learnt that the hard way but even with some of the boards now I'm surprised in a way that even some of the more expensive boards skimp on things.


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## Seelenwolf (Jan 22, 2018)

Hello, i see you use the Pictures from our Teammate and Overclockermember Saibot from www.Hardwareinside.de

https://www.hardwareinside.de/msi-b350-tomahawk-im-test-25145/
https://www.hardwareinside.de/community/threads/review-des-msi-x370-gaming-pro-carbon.4635/

Next Time pls, make a Sources for Copyrights. Thank you


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## infrared (Jan 23, 2018)

Seelenwolf said:


> Hello, i see you use the Pictures from our Teammate and Overclockermember Saibot from www.Hardwareinside.de
> 
> https://www.hardwareinside.de/msi-b350-tomahawk-im-test-25145/
> https://www.hardwareinside.de/community/threads/review-des-msi-x370-gaming-pro-carbon.4635/
> ...


Hi Seelenwolf, thank you for visiting and letting us know. I've quoted your posted and edited it into the 1st post, I apologize on behalf of Dave, he should have linked to the source.
Please thank Saibot for the time spent testing and compiling graphs.
Kind regards


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## trickson (Jan 23, 2018)

You know what? Honestly I have NEVER had any issues at all EVER with any VRM burn out. I do not know about this new MB the B350 seems to be great so far good OC and no voltage increase on my Rysen 3 1300X got her running at 3.72Ghz out of box! I wont go higher till I get a better cooler I never take a CPU voltage up on stock cooling NEVER!


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 23, 2018)

trickson said:


> You know what? Honestly I have NEVER had any issues at all EVER with any VRM burn out. I do not know about this new MB the B350 seems to be great so far good OC and no voltage increase on my Rysen 3 1300X got her running at 3.72Ghz out of box! I wont go higher till I get a better cooler I never take a CPU voltage up on stock cooling NEVER!



Never had an issue with cheap VRMs either then again I don't buy cheap boards, I do research on them


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## OneMoar (Jan 23, 2018)

for every degree cooler then the maximum you run a vrm the current handling capacity accually increases a bit,a vrm thats 300A @ 125c might be 350 or 400A at 80c

there is other things like switching speed and thermal efficiency to consider but running a vrm at its rated frigging output is not going to blow it up
you are not smarter then the engineers at international rectifier so please just stop

~A good engineer is always a wee bit conservative, at least on paper. James montgomery scott
@buildzoid  You're turn


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## parsa.strife (Apr 20, 2018)

Hey guys I know this thread is somewhat old but I'm gonna get myself a Ryzen 3 1200 system tomorrow and I was gonna pick up a MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon for $150 but then I came across this video of a R7 2700X running on a MSI X370 XPower Gaming Titanium with the power delivery system of the board making a scary noise:









So I thought if that board with slightly better VRM does that what would that CPU do to the Gaming Pro Carbon? 
Yes I'm just getting a Ryzen 3 1200 but I am gonna upgrade to a R7 2700 or R7 3700 later on. So I do want my board to be able to handle them. So I was wondering if it's worth to spend an extra $40 to get the Asus Prime X370 Pro for $190 which seems to have a better 6+2 phase VRM? But how much better is it? Can it run the R7 2700X? Can't the B350 Pro Carbon do that? $40 is a lot and that board also doesn't look as good. I want a fully black board. But if it is necessary I wouldn't mind it...


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## cucker tarlson (Apr 20, 2018)

If you really wanted to push that 2700x I'd go with asrock taichi.


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## parsa.strife (Apr 20, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> If you really wanted to push that 2700x I'd go with asrock taichi.


Sadly I can't find ANY ASRock AM4 board at all where I live. And the Asus Prime X370 Pro is as high as I can go in price aslo.. I don't want top 4.2 overclocks. I'd be happy with stock which seems to be at around 4GHz on all cores?

Asus Prime X370 Pro has a noticeably better VRM right? I just don't want to spend that extra $40 for little to nothing..


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## cucker tarlson (Apr 20, 2018)

Check out X370GT7

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8137/biostar-x370gt7-motherboard-review/index3.html

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8137/biostar-x370gt7-motherboard-review/index10.html


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## parsa.strife (Apr 20, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> Check out X370GT7
> 
> https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8137/biostar-x370gt7-motherboard-review/index3.html



Also not available here XD I'm screwed. There is only shitty MSI X370s and only 3 Asus X370s and a few Gigabyte ones which are very expensive.
The closest (in price) better board after the Asus Prime X370 Pro is the Gigabyte AX370 Gaming 5 at $340 lol.
$340 vs $190 for the Asus Prime X370 Pro xD I can barely afford the Asus one already .-.


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## Dave_K (Apr 20, 2018)

Gaming 5 is better than Prime X370 Pro
Check Strix X370-F as well (my bae)
Generally, X370 XPower = Prime X370 Pro
The joke was that MSI did something at US250 whilst Asus could do it at US150.


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## cucker tarlson (Apr 20, 2018)

parsa.strife said:


> Also not available here XD I'm screwed. There is only shitty MSI X370s and only 3 Asus X370s and a few Gigabyte ones which are very expensive.
> The closest (in price) better board after the Asus Prime X370 Pro is the Gigabyte AX370 Gaming 5 at $340 lol.
> $340 vs $190 for the Asus Prime X370 Pro xD I can barely afford the Asus one already .-.


Get the asus then. It'll handle oc fine. It's the cheapest x370 to make it to the high-end am4 tier and best bang for the buck overclocking mobo.

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/630gc9


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## parsa.strife (Apr 20, 2018)

Dave_K said:


> Gaming 5 is better than Prime X370 Pro
> Check Strix X370-F as well (my bae)
> Generally, X370 XPower = Prime X370 Pro
> The joke was that MSI did something at US250 whilst Asus could do it at US150.


I know it is better but definitely not worth $150 more lol
Well if XPower = Prime Pro then FML.


So it's worth the extra $40 to get the Prime X370 Pro over the B350 Pro Carbon?


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## cucker tarlson (Apr 20, 2018)

parsa.strife said:


> I know it is better but definitely not worth $150 more lol
> Well if XPower = Prime Pro then FML.
> 
> 
> So it's worth the extra $40 to get the Prime X370 Pro over the B350 Pro Carbon?


Yes. If you're gonna upgrade to 8 cores then it definitely is.


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## parsa.strife (Apr 20, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> Get the asus then. It'll handle oc fine. It's the cheapest x370 to make it to the high-end am4 tier and best bang for the buck overclocking mobo.
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/630gc9


 Oh thanks for that list. Then I probably should go for the Asus if it counts as high-end while the Pro Carbon counts as midrange.

Oh btw the MSI XPower Gaming Titanium + a free Plextor S3C 128GB SSD is $240 lol so technically it's cheaper than the Asus board. But is it better? I kinda think it's worse than Asus but idk. Talking about VRMs only btw.. Idc about anything else.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 20, 2018)

parsa.strife said:


> Oh thanks for that list. Then I probably should go for the Asus if it counts as high-end while the Pro Carbon counts as midrange.
> 
> Oh btw the MSI XPower Gaming Titanium + a free Plextor S3C 128GB SSD is $240 lol so technically it's cheaper than the Asus board. But is it better? I kinda think it's worse than Asus but idk. Talking about VRMs only btw.. Idc about anything else.



Only two board manufacturers come out on top for reliability and quality especially when it comes to overclocking, that is Asus and ASRock. I'm pretty sure under stock conditions just about any b350 motherboard should be able to handle the processors, I just wouldn't overclock with them though. That noise either sounds like the fan or it had some coil whine. Coilwine itself is nothing of concern, and is not covered by most board manufacturers as a warrantable condition.


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## cucker tarlson (Apr 20, 2018)

parsa.strife said:


> Oh thanks for that list. Then I probably should go for the Asus if it counts as high-end while the Pro Carbon counts as midrange.
> 
> Oh btw the MSI XPower Gaming Titanium + a free Plextor S3C 128GB SSD is $240 lol so technically it's cheaper than the Asus board. But is it better? I kinda think it's worse than Asus but idk. Talking about VRMs only btw.. Idc about anything else.


Xpower is better.


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## parsa.strife (Apr 20, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> Only two board manufacturers come out on top for reliability and quality especially when it comes to overclocking, that is Asus and ASRock. I'm pretty sure under stock conditions just about any b350 motherboard should be able to handle the processors, I just wouldn't overclock with them though. That noise either sounds like the fan or it had some coil whine. Coilwine itself is nothing of concern, and is not covered by most board manufacturers as a warrantable condition.





Yeah looking at that list again Asus one seems to have the better VRM actually lol.

I shouldn't fall for that "free SSD" XD

My PSU doesn't even have 8+4 CPU power connectors lol



I kind of doubt a R7 2700X would easily run on any B350 mobo even at stock unless it throttles down the boost speed and runs at the base clock (3.7GHz)

I just want some mobo that I can have for 5+ years as I'll be upgrading the CPU in about 2 years. (Hopefully R7 4700 will be out by then and supported by X370 xD) I don't want it to degrade and die on me. And yeah I feel Asus would be a great choice. Thanks everyone for the help 



cucker tarlson said:


> Xpower is better.


Nevermind that xD because my PSU doesn't even have 8+4 CPU power connectors lmao


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 20, 2018)

parsa.strife said:


> Yeah looking at that list again Asus one seems to have the better VRM actually lol.
> 
> I shouldn't fall for that "free SSD" XD
> 
> ...



Well wait for a X470 or Z490 Motherboard then Buy a Chip.


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## parsa.strife (Apr 20, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> Well wait for a X470 or Z490 Motherboard then Buy a Chip.



New stuff take months to get to my country and they're overpriced for the first few months they appear here. So that'd mean waiting for 4-6 months till they arrive here and their prices come reasonably down. And I'm rotting on the ancient LGA 775 platform xD I'm gonna pick up R3 1200, Asus Prime X370 Pro and some 8GB kit tomorrow! I'm very excited.


Thanks everyone for the help again.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 20, 2018)

parsa.strife said:


> New stuff take months to get to my country and they're overpriced for the first few months they appear here. So that'd mean waiting for 4-6 months till they arrive here and their prices come reasonably down. And I'm rotting on the ancient LGA 775 platform xD I'm gonna pick up R3 1200, Asus Prime X370 Pro and some 8GB kit tomorrow! I'm very excited.
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone for the help again.



You can always heatware the stuff off at a later date.


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## dorsetknob (Apr 20, 2018)

parsa.strife said:


> My PSU doesn't even have 8+4 CPU power connectors lol


what ever you Get your going to need a Decent PSU

So bare that in mind and also Budget it into your Costs


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 20, 2018)

parsa.strife said:


> Yeah looking at that list again Asus one seems to have the better VRM actually lol.
> 
> I shouldn't fall for that "free SSD" XD
> 
> ...





dorsetknob said:


> what ever you Get your going to need a Decent PSU
> 
> So bare that in mind and also Budget it into your Costs



Buy a psu here

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/meatloafs-psu-blowout-60-psus-cables.235043/


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## BiggieShady (Apr 21, 2018)

No one should "need" to blow fans on their board VRM, too bad if they have to ...
Today we have complete power stages integrated into a single chip (2 mosfets + voltage reg.), so efficient that very little is lost to heat, they happily churn 1.4 volts and 30 amps each at 60 C ... you need only 4 of them in VRM array to feed any cpu monster ... but noo, many board manufacturers make beefy-looking 8 or 12 phase monster VRM arrays actually composed out of cheap and leaky mosfets


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## Mussels (Apr 21, 2018)

BiggieShady said:


> No one should "need" to blow fans on their board VRM, too bad if they have to ...
> Today we have complete power stages integrated into a single chip (2 mosfets + voltage reg.), so efficient that very little is lost to heat, they happily churn 1.4 volts and 30 amps each at 60 C ... you need only 4 of them in VRM array to feed any cpu monster ... but noo, many board manufacturers make beefy-looking 8 or 12 phase monster VRM arrays actually composed out of cheap and leaky mosfets




on both my MSI boards (one's 'too crap to make the list' and ones 'average' on the reddit guide above) they worked just fine with my wifes ryzen 1400 system, but both boards had VRM issues with the 1700 installed - setting 1.4V in the bios drops as low as 1.3v under heavy load, and they'd thermal throttle the CPU as well (i think a lot of people hit the VRM throttle without knowing it)

when i changed my AIO setup to be a top mounted exhaust, that little bit of airflow was good enough - the whole overheating VRM situation gets complicated af once you add in case design, fan placement, etc (i cant even mount my AIO where i should, because it hits a stupid heatsink over the rear IO ports)


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## MercJ (Apr 21, 2018)

This is all a bit sensational.  Yes, certain boards use different components, and it's important to do your research, but I think OP is blowing this a bit out of proportion.  All of the boards listed will run just fine, none of them are necessarily a "waste" of money (you shouldn't be putting your $400 CPU in a $100 board anyway, for example).

Besides, only a few have actually alluded to it, but no one's said it yet -

Most of these sockets and boards were designed with STOCK COOLERS in mind - there's a reason why stock coolers are top-down types.  This adds the required airflow over the VRMs and surrounding components, keeping everything within spec.

You should know - being the enthusiasts that you are - that when you subtract this component (by adding an AIO, for example), you need to ADDRESS THE ISSUE IN ANOTHER MANNER.  Either by making sure your case's airflow is directed as such to do the job regardless, or targeting the VRM area in another way.

OP, you should really add some sort of disclaimer to your IR photos in the OP.  Those are taken with an AIO cooler, and I can't even tell if the board was IN a case at the time.  Of course it's going to run hot, conduction doesn't work as well as convection/forced airflow over heatsinks.  Presenting the information the way you did makes me question your intent. 

Most of this is all moot for Ryzen anyway.  AIOs don't give you any sort of overclocking advantage on that platform - all of the 1st gens maxed out around 3.9/4.0 anyway.  XFR probably worked just as well on the stock coolers.  My R7 1700 overclocks to 3.9 on the stock Wraith Spire cooler just fine, still stays below 70C max.

To everyone freaking out in this thread - keep it in perspective.  You should have airflow over the VRMs regardless, whether using a stock cooler or some other solution.

*EDIT: I will concede that the "overclocking-focused" models (1600X, 1700X, 1800X) that didn't come with stock coolers on 1st gen Ryzen could give the wrong idea to newer builders.  Still, as enthusiasts that are given the opportunity/responsibility to "do it on your own," you should know what you're getting into...if nothing else, test your own builds to make sure everything is running within spec, that's part of the process...


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## cdawall (Apr 21, 2018)

MSI uses trash VRM's on motherboards and GPU's, GB isn't much better nor is Biostar. I don't see how this is new to people this has been an issue for a long time.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 21, 2018)

cdawall said:


> MSI uses trash VRM's on motherboards and GPU's, GB isn't much better nor is Biostar. I don't see how this is new to people this has been an issue for a long time.



my MSI GTX680(s) and 970 have never blown up or died due to trash VRMs. I havent had a MSI motherboard since Skt 939 was a thing though so cant comment on that.


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## EntropyZ (Apr 22, 2018)

I have to put warnings in my posts so people don't accidentally read them. If this is too long, go do something more productive with your time.

I don't know if I posted this already, indeed, AsRocks VRMs on Pro and Taichi series seem rock solid, provided you have some airflow coming from case fans. My AB350M Pro4 seems to cope pretty well with the R5 1600 power demands, just one unrelated issue, the PCB is brittle AF on the corners, I managed to brick my FP header a second time, (once on my original one and second time on the RMA board that I am currently running). All it took was plugging it in, I heard an audible crack when the PCB bent slightly from the force required to connect the cable. I never had that happen on any other motherboard in my life! Must have been a bad batch of motherboards that got shipped... Or just plain bad luck. I still can't get over how it happened twice and only now in 13 years.

A lot of 1st gen Ryzen boards weren't up to par to Intel counterparts, there's threads putting that under the looking glass. It seems that most of the glaring issues are gone with the 2nd gen Ryzen boards. But that might change, as there are no B-series boards released for the 2nd gen yet. I want to see a decent B chipset uATX variants, but since they messed up once, I don't hold much hope for fixing the gripes I have with B350 and the cheaper X370 boards.

I really frowned upon pretty much every B350 board stuck with decade old Realtek's ALC889 (yes I looked at the datasheet). When even the better 1150 has been replaced by 1220 already. A few bucks for a noticeably better solution is fine with me. The fact that they are not putting the best and newest even on what seems to be a higher end board, is messed up from my perspective. Note, even the recent Intel B360 boards have the same problem. The AB350M Pro4 I have has the worst audio results out of all B350 motherboards according to hardware.info.

I've bought some good bookshelf speakers and I can't use their max potential, hell, my old smartphone has a superior DAC integrated (i know there's electrical interference/radiation on a desktop, but c'mon). Why put a legacy codec on a mid-range motherboard in 2017? WTF.  Mid-range AM3+ motherboards had ALC 1150 dammit. I would gladly sacrifice the RGB lighting for better audio any day, my preference. But I would love to have both, OK.

Edit: I just saw a high-end Z370 motherboard with ALC 892 and not 1220. Did Realtek stop production of the 1220 or they are clearing 10 year old inventory? That would make sense, but what does not is a pricey piece of fiberglass not having what it should in its price point.

I know copper has risen in price, so more stuff in a board = more pcb layers = more copper traces, not to mention all the other metals used. But the prices for new motherboards (especially the high-end) nowadays seem higher to me for some reason, or is it just me? Must have been all that RGB lighting, oversized heatsinks with no fins and gaming monikers that's addling the design team's brains or something, the marketing team just doesn't care and runs with it. Or does that make too much sense and all of the above is true?

At least that one motherboard from EVGA and now even Gigabyte has boards with actual heatsinks for the VRM, though they are reserving those only for the high-end.

"Hey, let's price this thing up the ass but cut corners. If they want the "best" well, they better buy that $300 board."

In any case, nobody seems to be nagging any of the other board makers to make changes, so I guess everything is totally fine and I am simply overreacting on part of being an entitled jackass, right?

I know everything is better than it was a decade ago, but everything should be even better now. I'm hoping there's that perfect motherboard someday. Well there are a few that get close, but most of them are on Intel's platform, would be sweet to go and have something like Super Socket 7 days where you could use the AMD and Intel CPU's in the same motherboard. Yeah, not going to ever happen with exclusive features, different power requirements and a completely different architecture.

Just thinking about it makes me want to stick an AMD CPU in one of those replacing the Intel one, I've never done it before myself. Good thing there are some channels that still dabble in the technical and nostalgia side of things, and remind us of the history of PC industry. Probably a more interesting time, back then a CPU would become almost obsolete in mere months after a new release when they bumped up the clock speeds or added cache.

I'm going off the rails, so I'll just stop now. If you thought Buildzoid rambles too much in his videos, I'm on a higher level.


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## John Naylor (Apr 22, 2018)

Ya get what ya pay for .... when ya sell on price. expect lower quality ... and we are seeing AMD push the cost of MoBo, CPU and cooler as a plus.... even on Intel boards, frankly I don't see the b and H series boards as in addition to what' pointed out here.... ya get crap for sound and LAN subsystems.


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## jboydgolfer (Apr 22, 2018)

cdawall said:


> MSI uses trash VRM's on motherboards and GPU's, GB isn't much better nor is Biostar. I don't see how this is new to people this has been an issue for a long time.



  people become stuck so deeply in the idea of a companies "greatness", that they bury their heads in the sand to avoid hearing the truth about how sh!tty their products really are, so when it falls in their laps & they cant ignore it anymore, its a surprise.


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## cdawall (Apr 22, 2018)

FreedomEclipse said:


> my MSI GTX680(s) and 970 have never blown up or died due to trash VRMs. I havent had a MSI motherboard since Skt 939 was a thing though so cant comment on that.



The 680 is an antique at this point and the 970 even on the gaming x model wasn't anything to write home about...


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## Bones (Apr 22, 2018)

cdawall said:


> MSI uses trash VRM's on motherboards and GPU's, GB isn't much better nor is Biostar. I don't see how this is new to people this has been an issue for a long time.



How true - I was wondering if anyone recalled Biostop used the cheap stuff too like MSI with similar results.
And they say MSI is "Military Grade"..... Who's military?
North Korea's?

MSI by now has a rep for making some of the piss-poorest pieces of sh!t ever made, comprised of the absolute cheapest, lowest-end components to be found while scraping the bottom of a dumpster and only accepting the leftovers from that kind of job as cheap enough to make the cut to be an MSI.
What's crazy about it all is (To me) MSI actually had/has some very innovative features build into their boards, it's just the boards either don't live long to really get to use them much or by using them the board will take the expected massive stinky dump all over itself and everything around, usually killing stuff in the process aside from itself.

It's obvious I will never buy another MSI board, _the four I have/had here all died from the same exact thing_, *VRM failure. *This happened across several different models of MSI boards.
With the consistency of this issue across time you'd think they'd at least catch a clue but they don't care - It's quantity over quality with them.


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## Mussels (Apr 22, 2018)

ironically enough i love my MSI GPU's, but the boards were a bit of a letdown (they were quite cheap, at least)


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 22, 2018)

cdawall said:


> GB isn't much better nor is Biostar.


There's a lot of brand bashing. MSI was once garbage, now they're much better and they learned, using better parts. EVGA in the late 90's-early 2000's was complete garbage. Now they're top tier. Gigabyte was fumbling for a few years 2009-2011 and had bad runs of mobo's, now they're better. Biostar has always been a budget build company, and unless you're overclocking, they wonderfully stable. Every company goes through growing/learning pains.


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## GoldenX (Apr 22, 2018)

Why do people think the 2700x can't hit it's turbo freqs or XFR on a B350 or A320 motherboard? 4 VRMs are enough for 125w, and the turbo/XFR frequencies are for a limited time/voltage/temperature, of course even the cheapest boards can sustain that, it's on the chipset specs. Now, don't expect a B350 to sustain a 4300 overclock like a better more expensive board.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 22, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Why do people think the 2700x can't hit it's turbo freqs or XFR on a B350 or A320 motherboard? 4 VRMs are enough for 125w, and the turbo/XFR frequencies are for a limited time/voltage/temperature, of course even the cheapest boards can sustain that, it's on the chipset specs. Now, don't expect a B350 to sustain a 4300 overclock like a better more expensive board.


That's a good point. And how difficult would it be to hop in ebay, amazon or some other place you can get heatsinks and glue them onto the VRM's. A person can either whine about a problem or solve it.


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## Mussels (Apr 22, 2018)

They can definitely hit XFR - its running all 8C/16T at those clocks that the VRM's cant handle


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## BiggieShady (Apr 22, 2018)

EntropyZ said:


> one motherboard from EVGA and now even Gigabyte has boards with actual heatsinks for the VRM


Decorative plastic vrm covers that resemble heatsinks are downright criminal imo


John Naylor said:


> Ya get what ya pay for ....


However, It's quite often that you hope to get what you paid for and be disappointed instead


GoldenX said:


> 4 VRMs are enough for 125w


You see, the difference is does it happen at 60C or 120C


lexluthermiester said:


> you can get heatsinks and glue them onto the VRM's


Yeah, but why would any consumer be OK with having to do that to make product he or she bought viable for sustained loads? 
I guess it's fine for web browsing, but for sustained loads excessive heat buildup around the vrm will make power delivery less clean and cpu can become unstable.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 22, 2018)

cdawall said:


> The 680 is an antique at this point and the 970 even on the gaming x model wasn't anything to write home about...




Forgot to mention my 1070 too


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 22, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> There's a lot of brand bashing. MSI was once garbage, now they're much better and they learned, using better parts. EVGA in the late 90's-early 2000's was complete garbage. Now they're top tier. Gigabyte was fumbling for a few years 2009-2011 and had bad runs of mobo's, now they're better. Biostar has always been a budget build company, and unless you're overclocking, they wonderfully stable. Every company goes through growing/learning pains.



Erm skt A days they were pretty good it wasn't until AM2/3 they went downhill, even intel counterparts.

Biostar during AM2 era had some good OC boards


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## cdawall (Apr 22, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> There's a lot of brand bashing. MSI was once garbage, now they're much better and they learned, using better parts. EVGA in the late 90's-early 2000's was complete garbage. Now they're top tier. Gigabyte was fumbling for a few years 2009-2011 and had bad runs of mobo's, now they're better. Biostar has always been a budget build company, and unless you're overclocking, they wonderfully stable. Every company goes through growing/learning pains.



The z370 boards are OK, but if you consider just that generation showing they are all better now... I mean everything from p67-z270 generation boards have been a massive let down. There are videos on the web of the krait editions literally burning.


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## GoldenX (Apr 22, 2018)

BiggieShady said:


> You see, the difference is does it happen at 60C or 120C



Had a Phenom II X4 980BE (125w) for years, overclocked to 4,2GHz, on a cheap 770 motherboard with 4 VRMs without heatsinks, temp. on them never reached past 70º, they only had normal air flow, that was enough.


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## BiggieShady (Apr 22, 2018)

GoldenX said:


> Had a Phenom II X4 980BE (125w) for years, overclocked to 4,2GHz, on a cheap 770 motherboard with 4 VRMs without heatsinks, temp. on them never reached past 70º, they only had normal air flow, that was enough.


Same with board in my sig, also 4 phases quite enough for light OC of Ivy Bridge i5 ... but that's 70C, thing would crap out often if it were 120C like with some boards that this thread is about.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 22, 2018)

BiggieShady said:


> Yeah, but why would any consumer be OK with having to do that to make product he or she bought viable for sustained loads?
> I guess it's fine for web browsing, but for sustained loads excessive heat buildup around the vrm will make power delivery less clean and cpu can become unstable.


Sustained loads are not a problem. It's overclocking that causes the VRMs to get too hot. General consumers are not going to OC much. Anyone willing to dive into an OC will think nothing of adding aftermarket cooling.


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## BiggieShady (Apr 22, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> Sustained loads are not a problem. It's overclocking that causes the VRMs to get too hot.


I meant sustained load while overclocked obviously ... my point whole time, little more expensive components and even oc wouldn't make them hot, dammit


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