# What are the cons of using a 560mm radiator?



## Lei (Aug 25, 2021)

Hi there,
I'm trying to decide between 280 45mm rad or....

Turns out thickness only gains a few watts while adding 40% more weight. 
I looked at the excel sheets here for alphacool
Radiator Size Estimator | Overclock.net

a 240 XT45 weights only 50 grams less than a 420 ST30, while the 420 dissipation heads a few watts over twice as much. 

240 45mm weights 1075 grams
420 standard weights 1125 grams





Data for 560 is not available, but since 140 st dissipates 68 watts and 280 is double that and 420 is triple, then 560 standard 30mm must be 272w@1000rpm, 328@1250, 361@1400, 439@1800 and 510@2200 rpm


We put the rad outside the case, so case size doesn't matter. Any other cons? Is 560 too long to suffocate the pump, empty water channels? air bubbles? It certainly is a lot cheaper (40%) and 220 grams lighter than two 280 standards. 

All reviews on Amazon were positive for all thicknesses of 560. One said he doesn't need a reservoir anymore.
As I travel, I need to stay within limits of airline baggage rules, So I want best weight to heat dissipation ratio. 


Actually my case looks similar to this Amazon customer's pc, he purchased a 560 with 60mm thickness, I'm surprised to see he mounted this skyscraper vertically:








Here if you don't restrict the case size, EK recommends a quad CoolStream XE 480 radiator in horizontal position. 


			Custom Cooling Configurator | Custom Loop Configurator
		


If EK advices on 480, I don't think 560 is much longer. Besides EK suggestion is 60mm thick triple stack! I think coolant has a much more free transition in Alphacool 560 ST30

Notice EK doesn't suggest the 560, because the thickest 560 they have is 40mm - Cooling power 835 watt - 2.06kg 60x14x40 FPI 18
EK-CoolStream CE 560 (Quad) – EK Webshop (ekwb.com)

Their 480 is thicker and has cooling power of 957 watts - 2.1kg  52x13x60 FPI 18
EK-CoolStream XE 480 (Quad) – EK Webshop (ekwb.com)

let's estimate Alphacool thinnest longest rad : EK thinnest longest has cooling power of 710 watts - 1.93kg 60x14x28 FPI 18
EK-CoolStream SE 560 – EK Webshop (ekwb.com)


So ACool thinnest longest (lightest) compared to EK's counterpart is 440 grams lighter (version 2 is 755 gram lighter), 23mm shorter
AAAAAND acool's chambers are copper while EK is brass. so cooling power of acool must be >710 watts. 
Alphacool NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper 560mm Radiator V.2 | Radiators | Shop | Alphacool - the cooling company
Alphacool NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper 560mm Radiator | Radiators | Shop | Alphacool - the cooling company

with only 1.5kg - that's a lot lighter than 240+360 - one less fan too


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## maxfly (Aug 25, 2021)

Your positive you want to take a rad on a plane? A gigantic 560? With an open style case? Unless you have some kind of customized suitcase it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen 

Oook, you'll need to have a rad grill and fan grills to protect your rad fins and fan blades from getting crushed or broken (plastic would be lightest but fragile). QDCs will be a must. All added weight, not including coolant. 
You could go without a res with the st30. Just keep in mind it would have to be mounted like the one in the Amazon pic so you can fill and bleed it with a spare piece of tubing. It will be a time consuming pita. Much more likely to accidentally run your pump dry with no res attached to it. I wouldn't go that route myself. Even a small res will make filling and bleeding much easier. If your using a real ddc or d5 pump you wont have any problems with head pressure or flow. If your using a knock off, who knows.
Copper vs brass end tanks makes little to no difference in temps. The heat is transferred via the tubes to the fins.

My best advice would be to do your head to head with the hardwarelabs gts 560.





						Hardware Labs |   Nemesis 560GTS
					






					hardwarelabs.com
				



Its the best thin rad you can get. IF you can get one go with that. Check out some reviews. You'll see what i mean.
Best of luck!


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## Lei (Aug 28, 2021)

Well it fits, I'll get a bigger luggage anyway. Hope it doesn't bend. Feels lighter than I expected. I have two phanteks f140xp, may be I won't add any more fans


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## mtcn77 (Aug 28, 2021)

Is that intercooler for a turbo engine?


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## Lei (Aug 28, 2021)

Sorry about nemesis 560gts, i could not find it in any local online store. Besides alphacool 560 was priced 2$ higher than 420 in the same shops.
But thanks for the advice, looking at reviews about other companies long rads is a nice idea.


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## mtcn77 (Aug 28, 2021)

Has anybody seen any temperature gradient vs specific heat load radiator tests? It would be interesting to know how much a radiator affects cooling and noise specifically.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 28, 2021)

A 560 rad for cpu alone? I'm using a 280/45 and a 240 for cpu and 980ti and temps are great


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## xtreemchaos (Aug 28, 2021)

A 480 is morethan enough for a cpu but if you like over kill why not. i run a 3900x + gpu on a thin 480 and its cool no matter what i chuck at it same case too.


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## Lei (Aug 28, 2021)

Gruffalo.Soldier said:


> A 560 rad for cpu alone? I'm using a 280/45 and a 240 for cpu and 980ti and temps are great


You mean the pic from Amazon customer? May be he hasn't bought gpu block yet waiting for backplate active cooler. 


xtreemchaos said:


> A 480 is morethan enough for a cpu but if you like over kill why not. i run a 3900x + gpu on a thin 480 and its cool no matter what i chuck at it same case too.


Did you put all 4 fans on it? I hope I can cool with 2 fans. 
My system same as yours, gpu 30 watts less 1070


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## xtreemchaos (Aug 28, 2021)

ive 8 fans push pull but thay run a 500 to 600 rpm.


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## Arctucas (Aug 28, 2021)

Initially, I was going to suggest the BlackIce Nemesis GTR 560, but it appears weight is the main consideration; at 3.432 Kg that is considerably heavier than others. 

It does have 2800W of cooling capacity, though.






						Hardware Labs |   Nemesis GTR 560
					






					hardwarelabs.com


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## ThrashZone (Aug 28, 2021)

Hi,
Computers use besides travel the cpu/... is missing other than using a 1070 gpu with no block yet which not sure why it would need to be water cooled
So seems an interesting question and why you need watercooling at all.

Frankly from what you have stated there's no need for more than 280x45.. although I would stay away from ek CE series
If your stuck with ek products PE or XE series are the only ones worth looking at.

Otherwise I'd say mora3 360/ 420 seeing it has stands, fan guards... available but I have to assume cloths are also going into the case lol


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## Lei (Aug 28, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Computers use besides travel the cpu/... is missing other than using a 1070 gpu with no block yet which not sure why it would need to be water cooled
> So seems an interesting question and why you need watercooling at all.
> 
> ...


Hello,
that first picture is not my pc. It's a customer from Amazon who purchased a 60mm rad with a drain hole. Mine is standard 30 without drain hole. 
I will upgrade my gpu when all miners get terminal cancer. My 1070 does have a block, I got a 1080Ti block and sanded it. 

I need watercooling because I won't live forever and can't aircool during my ephemeral lifespan. 
280x45 is 77 grams lighter than 560x30 but less future proof
I don't have any EK product. I don't dye my coolant, dye my hair green and blue though never red


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## ThrashZone (Aug 28, 2021)

Hi,
lol yeah I got that was not your computer 
I asked what is the rest seeing you've only stated one a 1070.

What is radiator future proof in a ephemeral lifespan lol


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## maxfly (Aug 28, 2021)

If he wants to run a 560 hes going to run a 560 no matter how much people bitch and moan. Let the man build his loop. I want to see how hes going to travel with it already! 

And Thrash the CE rads are solid. The PE series, not so much. Check out VSGs reviews at Thermalbench.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 28, 2021)

maxfly said:


> If he wants to run a 560 hes going to run a 560 no matter how much people bitch and moan. Let the man build his loop. I want to see how hes going to travel with it already!
> 
> And Thrash the CE rads are solid. The PE series, not so much. Check out VSGs reviews at Thermalbench.



I'm using a CE 280/45, can't see any problem with it.


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## sneekypeet (Aug 28, 2021)

You should look on the internet for all the disasters that happen with systems being shipped for shows. These systems are typically crated in wood, and they still get wrecked. Putting a PC inside of checked luggage is asking for disaster IMHO.


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## maxfly (Aug 28, 2021)

sneekypeet said:


> You should look on the internet for all the disasters that happen with systems being shipped for shows. These systems are typically crated in wood, and they still get wrecked. Putting a PC inside of checked luggage is asking for disaster IMHO.



I tried to warn him but he seems determined to try it. If by some miracle customs doesn't tear it to pieces thinking its a bomb. The baggage handlers will most assuredly do it in. 
If i were a betting man, my money would be on the house!


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## mtcn77 (Aug 28, 2021)

Today I bought a milk carton that was compressed during transit. Makes me think of this somehow...


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## Lei (Aug 29, 2021)

90 minutes playing need for speed. No fans attached, weather 24° room is not AC balcony open, coolant 28, hdd 28




After gameplay : weather 23, hdd 43, coolant 41.7
Next idle for one hour:



Now coolant 39.4, hdd 38, weather 23


Another day: Two fans attached @1000rpm
weather 27, hdd 26, coolant 29.3 (room colder than outside, because of sunlight - weather does not mean ambient)



After gameplay: weather 27, hdd 42, coolant 34

Next idle for one hour:



Now coolant 31.4, hdd 38, weather 27


Sum up: 
without rad 10° up per hour
with rad 10° up per 1.5 hour
with fans 5° up per 1.5 hour


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## FireFox (Aug 29, 2021)

And all what you are cooling is a 1070?


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## Lei (Aug 29, 2021)

3900x and 1070. Will upgrade gpu later


FireFox said:


> And all what you are cooling is a 1070?


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## The red spirit (Aug 29, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Is that intercooler for a turbo engine?


At this point it's much cheaper to go to scrapyard and buy an actual car rad instead of this. Use some fish tank pump, antifreeze, some cheapo block from eBay and have a powerful and cheap cooling solution.


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## mtcn77 (Aug 29, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> At this point it's much cheaper to go to scrapyard and buy an actual car rad instead of this. Use some fish tank pump, antifreeze, some cheapo block from eBay and have a powerful and cheap cooling solution.


It is not common knowledge, but they leak. Hence bad idea.


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## The red spirit (Aug 29, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> It is not common knowledge, but they leak. Hence bad idea.


They are car rads, they absolutely shouldn't leak if they aren't broken. And I'm sure that since they are for cars, they are much more robust than rads for computers.


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## ShiBDiB (Aug 29, 2021)

I'm just here to see a smashed computer in a suitcase at this point.. that's a horrendously bad idea... 

That's assuming you even make it onto the plane, could 100% see you getting pulled off to explain that it isn't a bomb and them telling you they don't care it's not flying.


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## yotano211 (Aug 29, 2021)

I've heard taking a laptop on a plane works better, I've heard it from a friend.


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## mtcn77 (Aug 30, 2021)

I wonder what they will charge at the check in. Crossed fingers.


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 30, 2021)

Bag handlers throw bags, so i do not recommend this, have dhl ship it


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## Nuke Dukem (Aug 30, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Bag handlers throw bags, so i do not recommend this, have dhl ship it


Not only that, some airports' luggage transport systems still have places of "vertical discrepancies" where one conveyor may drop the suitcases from 2-3 ft onto the next one.

This is just my $0.02, OP decides if he's braving it.


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## Lei (Oct 16, 2021)

Good idea, but the radiator must not be made of aluminum:
Passive Watercooling / Car Radiator and distilled water



The red spirit said:


> They are car rads, they absolutely shouldn't leak if they aren't broken. And I'm sure that since they are for cars, they are much more robust than rads for computers.


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## ThaiTaffy (Oct 16, 2021)

My pc only goes carry on and i normally hide it in a shopping bag from the airport so I can carry a rucksack with my laptop, power tool batteries, 18650 cells and so on putting anything like a pc in checked luggage unless broken down and individually packed in a hard case is asking for disaster don't do it, I can promise with certainty it will be wrecked.


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## Lei (Oct 16, 2021)

Hi ThaiTaffy
I spend 95% of my life abroad, so if I reduce to a laptop, the nomad lifestyle I have, then I'd never have a real PC in my life.

It's not fair to be using a computer for 6 hours everyday, but have it so weak that can operate on batteries.

I rather have it crushed in an airplane, rather than not having it at all.


ThaiTaffy said:


> My pc only goes carry on and i normally hide it in a shopping bag from the airport so I can carry a rucksack with my laptop, power tool batteries, 18650 cells and so on putting anything like a pc in checked luggage unless broken down and individually packed in a hard case is asking for disaster don't do it, I can promise with certainty it will be wrecked.


Sorry, I think all laptops fall into toy category. Anything unplugged with batteries is a toy. Life is short so rebel.


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## ThaiTaffy (Oct 16, 2021)

Lei said:


> Hi ThaiTaffy
> I spend 95% of my life abroad, so if I reduce to a laptop, the nomad lifestyle I have, then I'd never have a real PC in my life.
> 
> It's not fair to be using a computer for 6 hours everyday, but have it so weak that can operate on batteries.
> ...


I don't think you quite understood, I carry both a tower and a laptop both could fit in one backpack but sadly my veto pro pack has a large central divider so I'm unable to fit the tower in.  I hide the tower in a airport duty free bag so it's not weighed and can be taken as carry on.

Man toys are the best.


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## Mescalamba (Oct 16, 2021)

a) overkill

b) heavy

c) price?


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## Lei (Oct 16, 2021)

ThaiTaffy said:


> I don't think you quite understood, I carry both a tower and a laptop both could fit in one backpack but sadly my veto pro pack has a large central divider so I'm unable to fit the tower in.  I hide the tower in a airport duty free bag so it's not weighed and can be taken as carry on.
> 
> Man toys are the best.
> View attachment 221097


Oh cute laptop.

Why don't you just carry the computer parts and leave the chassis behind? I put cpu, ram and ssd in backpack and carry on. I have an open case style, so basically instead of tower I have some aluminium rods that everything attaches to (same rods they use to make shopping windows or gym closets) 
My chassis is 2 meters of aluminium, cut down into a frame to fit the mobo. It weights 1kg 




Mescalamba said:


> a) overkill
> 
> b) heavy
> 
> c) price?


Overkill : yeah, but quieter, needs less fan 
B : just 1.49 kg
C : same as a triple rad, just 2$ more. Shop called me and thanked me for the purchase, apparently no one with a sane mind buys this stuff. But I'm very happy, when girls ask me who do you love the most? I say my radiator. 

My rad, my obelisk.


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## ThaiTaffy (Oct 16, 2021)

Whole thing weighs less than 5kg and I carry powertools and other heavy items in my check in, so keeping it all together and not stripping it down every time seems the better option.


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## mtcn77 (Oct 20, 2021)

I think this is a good loop extension, don't you think?








						Desktop Sensor Panel (3D printed frame) - PC Master Race
					

298 points • 57 comments




					9gag.com


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## ThaiTaffy (Oct 20, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I think this is a good loop extension, don't you think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A cheap Chinese raspberry pie LCD running Aida, no?


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## delshay (Oct 25, 2021)

Not sure where to put this but here's a review of the Phantek T30.

Phanteks Defeated Noctua? T30 Review - YouTube


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## thesmokingman (Oct 25, 2021)

Pours out a cold one for the OP, that is some dedication man!


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## Lei (Oct 25, 2021)

absolutely not here! This is an airflow optimized fan and doesn't even fit on a 140mm rad
for rad, you must go for a fan with less blades and larger gap between blades. as Jay2Cents said "you should be able to stick your finger through it, not in a dirty sense"








watch @5:30



delshay said:


> Not sure where to put this but here's a review of the Phantek T30.
> 
> Phanteks Defeated Noctua? T30 Review - YouTube


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## Lei (Dec 5, 2021)

Forza Horizon 5, fans are unplugged at zero rpm






At the end coolant is 33.6
hdd 36 , gpu 36, ssd 41, weather 9
graph is 100 minutes


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## FireFox (Dec 5, 2021)

What are you cooling?


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## Lei (Dec 5, 2021)

FireFox said:


> What are you cooling?


1070 and 5900x
rad is outside of chassis on the floor on a pizza box. 
res is also 5 gallon drinking water. bykski blocks


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## mtcn77 (Dec 5, 2021)

Lei said:


> 1070 and 5900x
> rad is outside of chassis on the floor on a pizza box.
> res is also 5 gallon drinking water. bykski blocks


Hi,
This is wrong. Rad must not be at lower altitude than pump.

OP you should root for underdog sometime. Brand recognition does not mitigate performance tiers. Who cares which won at lower rpm, you can get a decent scythe to perform the same, however at mid to high rpm, you will catch wind of its mid tier quality.


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## Lei (Dec 5, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Hi,
> This is wrong. Rad must not be at lower altitude than pump.


I know in a generic loop, rad must not be lower to avoid bubbles in the pump. however my pump is floating inside the res. So having the rad at lower altitude won't send air into the pump.

Apart from not taking space on the desk, cooler ambient air stays near the floor. (cold air is more dense and thus heavier)


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## oobymach (Dec 5, 2021)

If it's too big to fit in a computer case why not go with a vehicle radiator, they make some really nice cheap rads for dirtbikes and you can oversize the fans and run them slower and because they're designed to cool engines they're far better performers than those tiny things you get for inside pc cases.


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## mtcn77 (Dec 5, 2021)

oobymach said:


> If it's too big to fit in a computer case why not go with a vehicle radiator, they make some really nice cheap rads for dirtbikes and you can oversize the fans and run them slower and because they're designed to cool engines they're far better performers than those tiny things you get for inside pc cases.


They can leak...


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## Lei (Dec 5, 2021)

oobymach said:


> If it's too big to fit in a computer case why not go with a vehicle radiator, they make some really nice cheap rads for dirtbikes and you can oversize the fans and run them slower and because they're designed to cool engines they're far better performers than those tiny things you get for inside pc cases.


I love this idea, may be having big enough rad, we won't need fan anymore.
I've being peeking through a bulldozer and I saw stacks of rads. It's cooling heaven.
However I need to travel with my rad - and vehicle radiators are made of aluminum?

When I'm fully settled, I will probably do this:


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## Blue4130 (Dec 5, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> They can leak...


If they are faulty sure, but then so can computer rads.


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## Lei (Dec 5, 2021)

A rad outside chassis leaking.... why is that a problem?
made of aluminum, that could be a problem 


Blue4130 said:


> If they are faulty sure, but then so can computer rads.


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## looniam (Dec 5, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Hi,
> This is wrong. Rad must not be at lower altitude than pump.


not in a custom loop w/reservoir - which collects all the air. but i guess you'd think the system was leaking when the level goes down over time. 

feel free to stop crapping FUD in the thread


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## mtcn77 (Dec 5, 2021)

looniam said:


> not in a custom loop w/reservoir - which collects all the air. but i guess you'd think the system was leaking when the level goes down over time.
> 
> feel free to stop crapping FUD in the thread


Feel free to visit OCN.
I think I know a lot more than some internet personality boasting how leak proof water joints are - in a passively cooled loop. We aren't contending for the funniest joke. Be sensible.



Lei said:


> A rad outside chassis leaking.... why is that a problem?
> made of aluminum, that could be a problem


No no, he said car radiator. Car radiators have different specs that can fail. It is not a problem though since they are replaceable, unlike a computer loop cooler.


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## looniam (Dec 5, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Feel free to visit OCN.


you mean where you got banned for the exact same behavior.


mtcn77 said:


> I think I know a lot more than some internet personality boasting how leak proof water joints are - in a passively cooled loop.


no you don't.


mtcn77 said:


> We aren't contending for the funniest joke. Be sensible.


humour was by far not my intention, which anyone can see but you i guess.

have a nice day.


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## mtcn77 (Dec 5, 2021)

looniam said:


> you mean where you got banned for the exact same behavior.


By an nvidia shill mod... Don't blow your cover, you might need it for more trolling.


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## looniam (Dec 5, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> By an nvidia shill mod... Don't blow your cover, you might need it for more trolling.


so thats the story?




looks like you just wasn't helpful.


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## mtcn77 (Dec 5, 2021)

looniam said:


> have a nice day.


That is gaslighting. 


looniam said:


> humour was by far not my intention, which anyone can see but you i guess.


That is passive aggressive snark.


looniam said:


> so thats the story?
> View attachment 227762
> looks like you just wasn't helpful.


That is a shill site, yes.


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## Blue4130 (Dec 5, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> .
> 
> 
> No no, he said car radiator. Car radiators have different specs that can fail. It is not a problem though since they are replaceable, unlike a computer loop cooler.


You make it sound like automotive rads are spontaneously leaking in great numbers. They are likely the same if not more reliable than pc rads. They definitely life upto much higher abuse than pc rads. When was the last time your pc rad had temp swings from - 40c to +40c? Or handle constant vibration and shock impacts from hitting potholes?


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## mtcn77 (Dec 5, 2021)

Blue4130 said:


> You make it sound like automotive rads are spontaneously leaking in great numbers. They are likely the same if not more reliable than pc rads. They definitely life upto much higher abuse than pc rads. When was the last time your pc rad had temp swings from - 40c to +40c? Or handle constant vibration and shock impacts from hitting potholes?


I'm quoting that from a tuning website. You are free not to take into consideration. I've never touched a car part, but at least I know my place and not speak for the experts in the field.


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## looniam (Dec 5, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I'm quoting that from a tuning website. You are free not to take into consideration. I've never touched a car part, but at least I know my place and not speak for the experts in the field.


and you have never built custom loop but will argue with those that have.


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## mtcn77 (Dec 5, 2021)

looniam said:


> and you have never built custom loop but will argue with those that have.


Be my guest. What could a race engineering website possibly know more than a rookie like me... I'm not arguing belligerent trolls as I did there. You and your single loop seem ripe for ideas.


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## looniam (Dec 5, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I think you didn't get the memo that you are not facing my opinion, but racing engineers telling people not to buy second hand radiators for avoiding all the trouble down the line. Be my guest. I'm not arguing belligerent trolls as I did there...


is this a race car? or even a car?

nope.

in the meantime, engineers such as myself have went to a junkyard, where there weren't any race cars, and used heater cores for a closed loop's radiator w/o any issues that you say those engineer claim.  








						Car heater core as PC water cooler radiator?
					

Hey I just replaced a heater core in a 89 chevy corssica and the old heater core turned out to be GOOD still, just one of the hoses coming off it was broken.. SO.. I have been wanting to do a WC setup for quite some time is this feasible to take the old heater core and re-purpose it?  Has anyone...




					www.overclock.net
				











						Heater Core for Water Cooling
					

What cars have good heater cores for water cooling? I think i have heard that the 77 Pontiac is a good one, but which car? are there other better options? are they made of copper? because i will most likely be using a copper CPU block and don't want galvonic corrosion(Probably said that wrong...




					www.overclock.net
				











						car heater core as pc rad
					

iv found a few cheap heater cores for cars on ebay like $30 aus i was wondering if a heater core would work as well as a rad made for a pc is there a difference other than size and look?  im looking for a cheap way to build an external water cooler.  iv never water cooled before so this is all...




					www.overclock.net
				











						Heater cores: What's good, what's not?
					

So I'm considering using a pair of heater cores in the loop I'm designing right now. Partly because they're relatively cheap, partly because I suspect that they'll perform incredibly well with the kind of airflow I'm planning on giving them (quite a lot).  However, there are as many types of...




					www.overclock.net
				











						Heater Core Help
					

oh, well i recently purchased this heater core. I would like to fit it in the top of my antec 900. I am thinking that i can put it where the 200mm fan currnty is. I will have 5 100 cfm panaflows shortly and i would like to use then. I am thinking fo doing a puch pull config with shrouds made...




					www.overclock.net
				











						Heater core causing restriction?
					

So I purchased a slew of parts from various retailers, among which was a heater core from Danger Den's closing. I have an EK DCP 4.0 which is supposedly rated at 800 LPH. I'm not sure what the head rating is. I'm currently running the heater core, pump and reservoir outside of the case with as...




					www.overclock.net


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## mtcn77 (Dec 5, 2021)

looniam said:


> is this a race car? or even a car?
> 
> nope.
> 
> in the meantime, engineers such as myself have went to a junkyard, where there weren't any race cars, and used heater cores for a closed loop's radiator w/o any issues that you say those engineer claim.


So, is the person you are talking about an engineer?
You are still the same as you were talking nonsense about your house in a totally unrelated topic...


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## looniam (Dec 5, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> So, is the person you are talking about an engineer?
> You are still the same as you were talking nonsense about your house in a totally unrelated topic...


check the edit, but yes, i am an engineer, but obviously not you is a great point too.

funny i provide evidence while you just type. . so who's a troll


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## mtcn77 (Dec 5, 2021)

looniam said:


> check the edit, but no, it i i who am an engineer, but obviously not you is a great point too.


Ha, hit a hard rock, isn't it? Try not to astroturf too much. I'm well versed in the science and apparently more aware who I'm talking to. You could weld an underwater pipe if you wanted, it still wouldn't matter. You aren't speaking to engineers you boastful narcissist.
PS: you had a good lawn.


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## FireFox (Dec 5, 2021)

looniam said:


> i guess you'd think the system was leaking when the level goes down over time.


Evaporation, pretty normal but a shame that some people still don't understand that.

This is mine


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## maxfly (Dec 5, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Ha, hit a hard rock, isn't it? Try not to astroturf too much. I'm well versed in the science and apparently more aware who I'm talking to. You could weld an underwater pipe if you wanted, it still wouldn't matter. You aren't speaking to engineers you boastful narcissist.
> PS: you had a good lawn.


Why do you do this to every thread you post in? Insulting members over a disagreement?


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## mtcn77 (Dec 5, 2021)

maxfly said:


> Why do you do this to every thread you post in? Insulting members over a disagreement?


Well, I don't bend truth to some people's whim. I take a hard line. And I don't ever lead people on a wild goose chase. If this thread hasn't demarcated that by now, I'm sorry. You may follow an engineer's lead as an instructional. I just don't think this is a wise approach. People without field experience don't do their own plumbing like the delusional party is stating here.


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## wheresmycar (Dec 5, 2021)

560mm radiator? What are you cooling.... the fire of mordor? 

Don't worry i've seen worse... some guy had something like an external 480x480 radiator with 16 fans and then a whole bunch of other fans inside his case. All that to cool a tiny Zen 2 3900X/3950X CPU. FAN-ATICS!!


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## looniam (Dec 6, 2021)

FireFox said:


> Evaporation, pretty normal but a shame that some people still don't understand that.
> 
> This is mine
> 
> View attachment 227771


pretty sure evaporation has a lot to do with the size of the loop.



about the same as when i topped it off after all the micro bubble disappeared ~9 months ago when i pulled my W/C'd 980ti. 

btw, i took the top off for the pic, i do have it on.


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## Blue4130 (Dec 6, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Well, I don't bend truth to some people's whim. I take a hard line. And I don't ever lead people on a wild goose chase. If this thread hasn't demarcated that by now, I'm sorry. You may follow an engineer's lead as an instructional. I just don't think this is a wise approach. People without field experience don't do their own plumbing like the delusional party is stating here.


You flat out liked by saying that car radiators leak. 

You then said that people should trust water cooling companies engineers. (but not car company enigeers?) 

And now in this post you say don't listen to engineers...


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## FireFox (Dec 6, 2021)

wheresmycar said:


> some guy had something like an external 480x480 radiator with 16 fans and then a whole bunch of other fans inside his case. All that to cool a tiny Zen 2 3900X/3950X CPU. FAN-ATICS!!


I don't see any problem building a Loop with more cooling capacity than what you need 
I have 2x 480 and 1x 420 with 13 fans just to cool a 3080 and an 10700K

P.s i didn't go with 24 fans just because they were expensive


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## mtcn77 (Dec 6, 2021)

Blue4130 said:


> You flat out liked by saying that car radiators leak.
> 
> You then said that people should trust water cooling companies engineers. (but not car company enigeers?)
> 
> And now in this post you say don't listen to engineers...


I'm okay with being wrong. I cannot be the arbiter in a topic I know nothing about. I won't risk being wrong though. Those are two different entities. That is just what I read. No need for conflict, that is just a difference of opinion.

I didn't want to hurt water cooler people's feelings.
PS: "dirt cheap rads" might be straw that broke the camel's back. < this is what I said.


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## wheresmycar (Dec 6, 2021)

FireFox said:


> I don't see any problem building a Loop with more cooling capacity than what you need
> I have 2x 480 and 1x 420 with 13 fans just to cool a 3080 and an 10700K
> 
> P.s i didn't go with 24 fans just because they were expensive



FAN-ATIC 

lol

Truth be told, if I had cash to blow i'd defo go with some overkill too. But recently, dunno, i'm more warming to those anti-loads-of-fans smaller mini-ITX cases. Thanks to "optimium techs" content on YT... smaller packages with big surprises is my next upgrade package.


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## Blue4130 (Dec 6, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I'm okay with being wrong. I cannot be the arbiter in a topic I know nothing about. I won't risk being wrong though. Those are two different entities. That is just what I read. No need for conflict, that is just a difference of opinion.
> 
> I didn't want to hurt water cooler people's feelings.
> PS: "dirt cheap rads" might be straw that broke the camel's back. < this is what I said.


That's fine. But instead of saying car rads leak, you should say "I have no knowledge of this particular topic" instead of spreading falsehood.


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## Caring1 (Dec 6, 2021)

The larger the radiator, the greater the volume of coolant that the pump will have to push, therefore a greater strain on it possibly leading to it's early demise.


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## Lei (Dec 6, 2021)

24 fans? My rad costs same as 10 Phanteks. I'd rather buy a second rad instead of nailing pull push fans to it.

Hmm, will having another rad outweight buying more fans?


FireFox said:


> I don't see any problem building a Loop with more cooling capacity than what you need
> I have 2x 480 and 1x 420 with 13 fans just to cool a 3080 and an 10700K
> 
> P.s i didn't go with 24 fans just because they were expensive


More rad, less fan, that's my motto



Caring1 said:


> The larger the radiator, the greater the volume of coolant that the pump will have to push, therefore a greater strain on it possibly leading to it's early demise.


I was using a gpu block in the same place that I installed the rad now.
I had to rev up my pump for that block. But when I replaced the block with this rad, I revved back.

The rad causes less strain than a gpu block, which is amazing.


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## looniam (Dec 6, 2021)

Lei said:


> The rad causes less strain than a gpu block, which is amazing.


a bit old (and used a cpu block) but yeah:


			Thermalbench.com


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## mtcn77 (Dec 6, 2021)

Blue4130 said:


> That's fine. But instead of saying car rads leak, you should say "I have no knowledge of this particular topic" instead of spreading falsehood.


Well, don't look for affirmation. I'm just being reasonable. Anything dirt cheap, is going to be dirt... and cheap.


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## 95Viper (Dec 6, 2021)

Stay on topic.
Stop the BS.
Follow the Guidelines.
Only warning... points and bans will  given out for further violations.


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## Timelessest (Dec 6, 2021)

Does it take off? 
Sorry couldn't resist   
Didn't even know that there was such large radiators. The only con I can think is flow restriction and cost.


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## mtcn77 (Dec 6, 2021)

Timelessest said:


> Does it take off?
> Sorry couldn't resist
> Didn't even know that there was such large radiators. The only con I can think is flow restriction and cost.


Flow restriction is water inertia yes? It might indicate bend radius more than anything...



Timelessest said:


> Does it take off?
> Sorry couldn't resist
> Didn't even know that there was such large radiators. The only con I can think is flow restriction and cost.


Still waiting for the first person to suggest a truck radiator, you beat me to it.


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## wheresmycar (Dec 6, 2021)

Timelessest said:


> Does it take off?
> Sorry couldn't resist
> Didn't even know that there was such large radiators. The only con I can think is flow restriction and cost.



Over the years ive seen a couple of builds with those huge square shaped radiators and these had 2 pumps on either side, inflow and outflow. I'm guessing this helps to manage flow/pressure to get everything working properly?

When you speak of flow restriction, are you referring to the pump not being sufficient to push large amounts of liquid through the loop? (just interested to know a little more).


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## mtcn77 (Dec 6, 2021)

wheresmycar said:


> Over the years ive seen a couple of builds with those huge square shaped radiators and these had 2 pumps on either side, inflow and outflow. I'm guessing this helps to manage flow/pressure to get everything working properly?
> 
> When you speak of flow restriction, are you referring to the pump not being sufficient to push large amounts of liquid through the loop? (just interested to know a little more).


He means load. Don't think of it like a car. Load on the motor is different than your gas pedal which just makes it accelerate.


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## Lei (Dec 7, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Hi,
> This is wrong. Rad must not be at lower altitude than pump.



Put the pump inside the res, then you enjoy 3 benefits:
1- coolant muffles the noise
2- pump never runs dry
3- don't have to worry about placing the rad higher than pump







wheresmycar said:


> When you speak of flow restriction, are you referring to the pump not being sufficient to push large amounts of liquid through the loop? (just interested to know a little more).


I didn't have to rev up my pump after I added this rad to the loop. see this post. This rad has less flow restriction than my gpu block.


Timelessest said:


> Does it take off?
> Sorry couldn't resist
> Didn't even know that there was such large radiators. The only con I can think is flow restriction and cost.


Actually flow is great. I was worried too, but was pleasantly surprised.
Think about it this way : If flow of a 480 rad is good, how could a few more inches dramatically bump up the strain?
EK always suggests 480 (quad 12) so three more inches shouldn't slip anything away from optimal

about cost: most shops want to clean this up from their shelf and will give you a huge discount because it doesn't fit inside any chassis and you know what : tons of excellent stuff on sale because chassis says nah.


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## wheresmycar (Dec 7, 2021)

Lei said:


> Put the pump inside the res, then you enjoy 3 benefits:
> 1- coolant muffles the noise
> 2- pump never runs dry
> 3- don't have to worry about placing the rad higher than pump
> ...



Just when you think you've seen it all.... then this happens: Pump in the Res and a "pizza box" holding the worlds weight on its shoulders.

I have a little understanding of how this works, but no experience at all with these DIY/custom loops. Mostly been a AIO/air cooler runner.

Would you care to share:

1. What pump are you using?

2. What have you got sitting on the CPU?

3. What CPU are you running (and GPU if liquid cooled)? Temps?

4. How long have you had this setup up-and-running and any problems to date? Any potential long term draw backs?

One of these days I wanna get my hands dirty with a custom loop hence these questions 

(last but not least, was the pizza good? lol)


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## oobymach (Dec 7, 2021)

Lei, that custom loop looks like my first liquid cooling setup only I used a bucket as a reservoir.



mtcn77 said:


> They can leak...


Any liquid cooling setup has the risk of leaking but if it's outside the case it won't matter. Also as someone else already pointed out vehicle rads are manufactured to withstand a physical beating when mounted in their destination vehicle which is why I recommend dirt bike rads as they're among the strongest out there. 

The only downside to using a large vehicle radiator is the connections and interior pipe size are generally larger with vehicle rads and can require a larger pump and some adapters to change from cpu/gpu water block to the larger rad fittings, but the benefits of using a larger setup are mainly that your water temperature rises very slowly if at all so your components will stay at room temperature instead of heating up like a small aio designed to fit inside a computer case.


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## mtcn77 (Dec 7, 2021)

oobymach said:


> Any liquid cooling setup has the risk of leaking but if it's outside the case it won't matter.


Why do you make such jokes... I would have done it right up otherwise. 



oobymach said:


> only I used a bucket as a reservoir.


Someway, somehow that resonates with me quite immensely.


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## Blue4130 (Dec 7, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Why do you make such jokes..


What joke? He is serious.


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## mtcn77 (Dec 7, 2021)

oobymach said:


> The only downside to using a large vehicle radiator is the connections and interior pipe size are generally larger with vehicle rads










I'm sure you know why legionella develops in water systems when you don't flush your water heating utilities above 70°C periodically.


Blue4130 said:


> What joke? He is serious.


You know what is fun? Being serious around jokesters;

"Effect of water velocity on various fouling mechanisms at constant temperature"
"Effect of temperature on various fouling mechanisms at constant velocity"
I'm sure you guys are here to challenge the dow chemical company guide on coolants.


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## pantherx12 (Dec 7, 2021)

Lei said:


> Hi ThaiTaffy
> I spend 95% of my life abroad, so if I reduce to a laptop, the nomad lifestyle I have, then I'd never have a real PC in my life.
> 
> It's not fair to be using a computer for 6 hours everyday, but have it so weak that can operate on batteries.
> ...


There's plenty of laptops that would give you real PC feels.

You can get ones with desktop 16 core CPUs in them.

If you need upgradability then in today's market buying a whole laptop is often cheaper than buying a gpu. Sure you might loose 15% performance compared to the desktop equivalent but you get a whole system. 

You can buy a Lenovo legion 17" with a 5800h, rtx 3070, 1 tb nvme, 16gb of ram , 144hz screen etc etc for the same second hand market price of a 3070. (£1300 average eBay price for 3070)

We live in strange times


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## gorillacookies (Dec 7, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> You know what is fun? Being serious around jokesters;
> View attachment 227932
> "Effect of water velocity on various fouling mechanisms at constant temperature"
> View attachment 227934"Effect of temperature on various fouling mechanisms at constant velocity"
> I'm sure you guys are here to challenge the dow chemical company guide on coolants.


the jokes are on you.








						Figure 3. Effect of temperature on various fouling mechanisms at...
					

Download scientific diagram | Effect of temperature on various fouling mechanisms at constant velocity  from publication: Fouling During the Use of "Fresh" Water as Coolant - The Development of a "User Guide" | IHS ESDU recently published its latest ‘User Guide’ to fouling in heat exchange...




					www.researchgate.net
				





> IHS ESDU recently published its latest ‘User Guide’ to fouling in heat exchange systems, for systems with* fresh water* as the coolant. ESDU 07006 [1] is the third in a group, following the development of the* Crude Oil *Fouling User Guide [2] issued in 2000 and the* Seawater *Fouling User Guide [3] issued in 2004. ESDU 07006 was developed by IHS ESDU ov...
> . . .
> Crystalline fouling . This includes the deposition of calcium carbonate, calcium sulphate and other salts that have a solubility that diminishes with increasing temperature, leading to crystallisation of deposits of the salts on the heat exchanger tubes. Corrosion fouling . Some metals are oxidised to produce insulating layers of oxides on the tubes. Biological fouling . A whole range of types of biological growths form on heat exchanger tubes in seawater. The organisms deposited range from bacteria and algae to mussels, barnacles etc. Particulate fouling . Seawater may contain many types of silt, mud, sand or other finely divided particles that may settle on the heat exchanger surfaces and insulate them, providing a fouling resistance. Of the above mechanisms, the ones presenting the most problems for seawater systems are corrosion fouling and biological fouling.


nether of those graphs apply  using oil and sea water. what would and does happens to distilled water mixed with methanol, glycerol, ethylene glycol and propylene glycol are different for each.


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## mtcn77 (Dec 7, 2021)

gorillacookies said:


> the jokes are on you.
> 
> nether of those graphs apply  using oil and sea water.


Yes, says it right there. Not about oil, nor sea water. Perhaps you read it differently.


gorillacookies said:


> what would and does happens to distilled water mixed with methanol, glycerol, ethylene glycol and propylene glycol are different for each.


Since you are confused, glycols are biocides that foul due to the temperature as they break down while water becomes more ionised and galvanic corrosion starts. You need half the coolant in the form of glycols to attack both corrosion and biofouling since glycols are apolar, like alcohol.


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## gorillacookies (Dec 7, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Yes, says it right there. Not about oil, nor sea water. Perhaps you read it differently.
> 
> Since you are confused, glycols are biocides that foul due to the temperature as they break down while water becomes more ionised and galvanic corrosion starts. You need half the coolant in the form of glycols to attack both corrosion and biofouling since glycols are apolar, like alcohol


I see what you appear to not.


> A whole range of types of biological growths form on heat exchanger tubes in* seawater. *The organisms deposited range from* bacteria and algae to mussels, barnacles etc*.


You are misunderstanding  your comparison of an apple to oranges, pineapples, grapes . . .

Show a Citation that falls clearly in the specifications needed for operating in PC water cooling; Low Pressure (under 6psi) 20c to 60c for temps etc, What mistake you are making is looking at possible casualties of a rocket ship when building a model airplane.


 *!=*


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## mtcn77 (Dec 7, 2021)

gorillacookies said:


> I see what you appear to not.
> 
> You are misunderstanding  your comparison of an apple to oranges, pineapples, grapes . . .
> 
> ...


Stop astroturfing and trying to see what sticks. First you cite a wrong quote and then try to cut that out and fit your meaning. This is your quote, not mine;



> IHS ESDU recently published its latest ‘User Guide’ to fouling in heat exchange systems, for systems with* fresh water* as the coolant. ESDU 07006 [1] is the third in a group, following the development of the* Crude Oil *Fouling User Guide [2] issued in 2000 and the* Seawater *Fouling User Guide [3] issued in 2004. ESDU 07006 was developed by IHS ESDU ov...
> . . .
> Crystalline fouling . This includes the deposition of calcium carbonate, calcium sulphate and other salts that have a solubility that diminishes with increasing temperature, leading to crystallisation of deposits of the salts on the heat exchanger tubes. Corrosion fouling . Some metals are oxidised to produce insulating layers of oxides on the tubes. Biological fouling . A whole range of types of biological growths form on heat exchanger tubes in seawater. The organisms deposited range from bacteria and algae to mussels, barnacles etc. Particulate fouling .
> Seawater may contain many types of silt, mud, sand or other finely divided particles that may settle on the heat exchanger surfaces and insulate them, providing a fouling resistance. Of the above mechanisms, the ones presenting the most problems for seawater systems are corrosion fouling and biological fouling.


Let me remind you it looks a bit weird when you ask citation to top dow chemical company who makes the glycols for your coolants.
And one more thing: I don't need to prove anything. The onus is on you to prove why AIO makers who manufacture these loops and dow chemical company who fills them don't know anything about their core business instead of some trolls who have no conception of feasibility, nor benefit to cost ratio, nor operational parameters of cooling systems which can advocate totally crazy suggestions without any remorse whatsoever.
Let me remind you, your so called dirt bike rad could contain aluminum(which is why it is dirt cheap instead of copper) and it will form a nice sacrificial anode galvanic corrosion with your copper plate.
I get it you guys come from the woods, but try to acclimate.

PS: I'm okay with you being challenged in understanding this. What is not okay is you being maligned and trying to cause harm to people and trolling people into believing it. That is not okay and I'm an "anti-troll expert"(it is an alias I used when at OCN).


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## gorillacookies (Dec 7, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Stop astroturfing and trying to see what sticks. First you cite a wrong quote and then try to cut that out and fit your meaning. This is your quote, not mine;
> 
> Let me remind you it looks a bit weird when you ask citation to top dow chemical company who makes the glycols for your coolants.
> And one more thing: I don't need to prove anything. The onus is on you to prove why AIO makers who manufacture these loops and dow chemical company who fills them don't know anything about their core business instead of some trolls who have no conception of feasibility, nor benefit to cost ratio, nor operational parameters of cooling systems which can advocate totally crazy suggestions without any remorse whatsoever.
> ...


Dow?  The first words are:


> IHS ESDU recently published


Read who the authors are:








						Simon J. Pugh | AIChE
					






					www.aiche.org
				








						Home - Emeritus Professor Geoffrey Hewitt
					

Biography     Date Role   1999-



					www.imperial.ac.uk
				











						Hans Müller-Steinhagen – Wikipedia
					






					de.wikipedia.org
				



Dow had nothing to do with the research.

Now the burden is on you to prove that a "Large Vehicle's Radiator" will leak citing relative testing. Whatever is with AIOs, dirt bikes or whatever are not where the goal posts stand. 

Do YOU understand? That is without the passive aggressive attacks on my intelligence or intent.


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## mtcn77 (Dec 7, 2021)

gorillacookies said:


> Dow?  The first words are:
> 
> Read who the authors are:
> View attachment 227963
> ...


I cannot bridge the gap. I assume you think the references are related to dow. Which is not the case. Who said anything about a single set of data? I didn't include that since I don't want more trolling. Anybody with the slightest positive inclination can find it except the dunning krueger effect displaying trolls here.


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## gorillacookies (Dec 7, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I cannot bridge the gap. I assume you think the references are related to dow. Which is not the case.


Of course it's not but you keep referring to them as if they were.


mtcn77 said:


> Who said anything about a single set of data? I didn't include that since I don't want more trolling.


Science. If it holds true then no amount of trolling will discredit it.


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## mtcn77 (Dec 7, 2021)

gorillacookies said:


> Of course it's not but you keep referring to them as if they were.
> 
> Science. If it holds true then no amount of trolling will discredit it.


So stop trolling.


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## freeagent (Dec 7, 2021)

Enough bickering, stay on topic.


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## FireFox (Dec 7, 2021)

The thread need to be cleaned.


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## freeagent (Dec 7, 2021)

Yes it does.. I am at work and cannot do it atm.


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## gorillacookies (Dec 7, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> So stop trolling.


Never started but sorry if checking or validating citations is bothersome.

It's pretty simple, post supporting evidence that doesn't need your interpretation on how its related; not a salt water heat ex-changers but a consumer car's radiator used for a custom loop. For a PC's custom loop, that would be at least just distilled water at ~6psi and between 20c to 60c. Anything close to that is much better.  You don't need to worry about industrial specifications for residential applications.

IF you can't do that , fine but there is no need to get snippy. Maybe try discussing instead of worrying so much about trolls


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## mtcn77 (Dec 7, 2021)

gorillacookies said:


> Never started but sorry if checking or validating citations is bothersome.


I get it you want to validate, but my own validation is whether you can find the manual on your own. That clears a lot of the unqualified validations by the new trolls on the block.



gorillacookies said:


> It's pretty simple, post supporting evidence that doesn't need your interpretation


Galvanic corrosion does not require your self entitled recognition for acceptance. I mean, I'm not even quoting the section I'm replying to at this point since more flame posts will ensue. You are not on my radar.



FireFox said:


> The thread need to be cleaned.


If we do, more flood posts will follow.
I think we are speaking to amateurs since its new to them. What a dumb discussion explaining rust protection and biofouling to rednecks with no notion for it.
Gee cold water, copper plate aluminum rad, amiright...


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## gorillacookies (Dec 7, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I get it you want to validate, but my own validation is whether you can find the manual on your own. That clears a lot of the unqualified validations by the new trolls on the block.


Though i still found it. There is no good reason to keep sources secret; They show proper research has been done, no one should ever take someone's word for it.


mtcn77 said:


> Galvanic corrosion does not require your self entitled recognition for acceptance. I mean, I'm not even quoting the section I'm replying to at this point since more flame posts will ensue. You are not on my radar.


If you're so worried about flame posts, then don't reply. Like I said before, stop worring about trolls and worry about the content of your posts. If they hold true then no amount of trolling will discredit it.


mtcn77 said:


> I think we are speaking to amateurs since its new to them. What a dumb discussion explaining rust protection and biofouling to rednecks with no notion for it.


It is nice to know you think you're above everyone else.


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## mtcn77 (Dec 7, 2021)

gorillacookies said:


> Though i still found it. There is no good reason to keep sources secret; They show proper research has been done, no one should ever take someone's word for it.
> 
> If you're so worried about flame posts, then don't reply. Like I said before, stop worring about trolls and worry about the content of your posts. If they hold true then no amount of trolling will discredit it.
> 
> It is nice to know you think you're above everyone else.


I told before I take a hard line. It is your problem if you don't like people talking straight instead of running loops around facts in hopes of trolling.
Go waste other people's time where you won't gaud people into major hardware failure. This isn't funny section, really. I think a normal person would stop offering cheap amusement.


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## gorillacookies (Dec 7, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I told before I take a hard line. It is your problem if you don't like people talking straight instead of running loops around facts in hopes of trolling.
> Go waste other people's time where you won't gaud people into major hardware failure. This isn't funny section, really. I think a normal person would stop offering cheap amusement.


Hiding sources is not being straight and I am asking for straight talk, not this circular argument about trolls you keep giving. No, it's not the funny papers but its not a game either. There is an old say, "If you can't impress them with your brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit."

And without sources, your posts smell.


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## mtcn77 (Dec 7, 2021)

gorillacookies said:


> Hiding sources is not being straight and I am asking for straight talk, not this circular argument about trolls you keep giving. No, it's not the funny papers but its not a game either. There is an old say, "If you can't impress them with your brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit."
> 
> And without sources, your posts smell.


You still keep cherrypicking straw man arguments, yet failing to register your fallacy.
You haven't read the article you speak of. Had you read it, you wouldn't ask for further proof which is ironic since you keep asking for authority on the topic. You don't know about galvanic corrosion, nor any of that. I'm just taking this path to strip you of more flame topics to alternate between. Don't feed the troll.


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## bogmali (Dec 7, 2021)

Thread closed due to members that decided to hijack and make it their own kids playground.


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