# Is this type of performance in games a RAM issue?



## cooliosis (May 3, 2015)

Specs:
EVGA GTX 660 Ti Superclocked 2GB
i7-3770 @ 3.4GHz
8GB RAM, running dual channel @ 1600MHz according to CPU-Z
7200RPM hard drive (specifics unknown because I don't know how to check and this is a prebuilt computer)
750w PSU (specifics also unknown)
I've had this problem with a few other recent games, and I think all of them are open-world games (Watch Dogs, Far Cry 4 are two others). I don't think I remember this happening in linear games. For example, if I'm moving at a high speed in GTA 5, my game stutters/freezes to a point where it's unplayable. The stuttering isn't as noticeable on foot, but it eventually happens.
This is graph of my resource monitor when I'm playing: http://i.imgur.com/OhVK7Ho.jpg
This is a graph from HDTune (not playing; seems pretty bad): http://imgur.com/QDsyhkr
And here's a video I recorded while playing (sorry if it's a little difficult to see the Afterburner overlay): 







The performance is pretty much the same with or without recording.
The freezes/stutters are always there, but the slow texture loading is there sometimes, other times it isn't. The first percentage for GPU on the overlay is power usage, the second is temperature, the third is GPU usage, and the fourth is fan speed. Below that is VRAM usage, and you can also see my CPU temps/usage as well as RAM usage and pagefile usage. I let my power usage for my GPU go above 100% because it seemed like it alleviated the problem somewhat by doing so; I'm pretty sure my PSU has enough power to support that.
I don't have any other programs open when I'm playing GTA except for MSI Afterburner, Steam, and my DS3 to Xinput program (not MotionJoy, it's from Scarlet Crush Productions).
Things that I notice when the stutters happen is that the GPU usage, power usage, and CPU usage completely drop to 0%; not sure if that's directly causing it or not. But I'm thinking that it might be a problem with either my RAM or my hard drive; I'm leaning towards hard drive, but shouldn't it only be loading textures slowly if that were the problem, not a ton of stuttering? As far as I know, hard drive should only affect loading times and such, right?
I've tried increasing my page file, I've tried lowering the priority of the launcher and increasing the game's priority, I've tried completely uninstalling my display drivers and reinstalling them using Display Driver Uninstaller, and I'm really not sure what else to do. Thanks for any help, and I'll provide more info if needed. 

More about : gta freezes stuttering caused hard drive ram


Options


----------



## slyfox2151 (May 3, 2015)

Are you running out of RAM or VRAM? Check with Task manager and GPU-Z


If your running with a high resolution and lots of AA then I would suspect your running out of VRAM.


----------



## cooliosis (May 3, 2015)

slyfox2151 said:


> Are you running out of RAM or VRAM?
> 
> Check with Task manager and GPU-Z


I'm not running out of either, really. VRAM is never more than 1600MB out of my card's 2048MB. RAM is almost always at around 7000MB; I've seen it at around 7300-7500 at times, but it still has the same issue at 7000, or even high 6000s.


----------



## slyfox2151 (May 3, 2015)

cooliosis said:


> I'm not running out of either, really. VRAM is never more than 1600MB out of my card's 2048MB. RAM is almost always at around 7000MB; I've seen it at around 7300-7500 at times, but it still has the same issue at 7000, or even high 6000s.




Is your HDD heavily fragmented? This could cause the drive to be constantly searching for bits of files.

Its weird that your HDD speed drops so low near the end of the disk and then comes back up. Maybe a virus scan was running at that moment?


----------



## cooliosis (May 3, 2015)

slyfox2151 said:


> Is your HDD heavily fragmented? This could cause the drive to be constantly searching for bits of files.


I ran a defrag a few days ago, just checked it now and it says 0% fragmented (with the defragger that comes with Windows). So I'm pretty stumped as to why this is happening.


----------



## slyfox2151 (May 3, 2015)

Well, I would start with dropping your AA to 0x and lower the textures slightly to reduce the amount of Ram needed and see if that has any effect on it.
Check your Temps and make sure nothing it throttling, CPU and GPU.

Do you have another HDD to test with? Move GTA to a different HDD and see if that solves the issue.

Check the health of your HDD as well with HD Tune, take note of how many realocated sectors it has.

double check you are using the 350.12 driver.


----------



## cooliosis (May 3, 2015)

slyfox2151 said:


> Well, I would start with dropping your AA to 0x and lower the textures slightly to reduce the amount of Ram needed and see if that has any effect on it.
> Check your Temps and make sure nothing it throttling, CPU and GPU.
> 
> Do you have another HDD to test with? Move GTA to a different HDD and see if that solves the issue.
> ...


Hm, I've had the same issue with 0xAA and lowest possible textures, unfortunately. I haven't checked for throttling yet, I'll do so in a bit, but I don't think that my hardware is hitting very high temps for that to occur. I will also check my hard drive's health with HDTune; I did about halfway before I had to stop the process, but fhere were no errors so far. And I have updated my drivers to 350.12.


----------



## slyfox2151 (May 3, 2015)

You don't need to scan it, Check the smart data under the "health" tab. Post a screen shot of it.

Its very hard to see but it looks like your GPU is hitting 70c and your CPU is at 80c... So I don't think its throttling. Those temps are fine.


----------



## newtekie1 (May 3, 2015)

I think the problem is likely HDD related.  The stupid thing with GTA:V is that it loads a crap load of stuff into the page file.  Even though I have 24GB of RAM, when playing GTA:V I rarely see the RAM usage go over 7GB, but my page file grows to well over 10GB.

It also has to stream all the stuff for the city as you are traveling through the city.  The stuttering you are seeing is, IMO, the game having to wait on something to be loaded from the hard drive.  Since the hard drive is being hit with a large amount of paging as well as loading game data it just can't keep up when you are travelling at high speed.


----------



## slyfox2151 (May 3, 2015)

> ="newtekie1, Snip



I agree, After some quick googling I have found other users with the same issue



> A lot of people are saying this is a driver issue and that you need to download the latest drivers or that it's a RAM issue and that 8GB isn't enough. I personally believe it's a hard drive issue, as I encountered a player in the game with a gtx 780 with and i7 4770k and had no stuttering problems while my friend who has a gtx 660 with an i7 4770k and myself who has a gtx 980 with an i7 4970k and we have stuttering issues. Now I'm no genius but I think maybe the enormous 62GB install size of GTA V might be due to the textures and sound not being compressed, thus causing a data streaming issue for a lot of rigs.



https://support.rockstargames.com/hc/communities/public/questions/203473047-GTA-V-PC-Stutter-Issue


----------



## cooliosis (May 3, 2015)

slyfox2151 said:


> You don't need to scan it, Check the smart data under the "health" tab. Post a screen shot of it.
> 
> Its very hard to see but it looks like your GPU is hitting 70c and your CPU is at 80c... So I don't think its throttling. Those temps are fine.


Here's a picture of the health tab: http://imgur.com/Oz1KPTL
I'm assuming that's the "smart data" you're talking about, unless I'm blind and there's another section somewhere for that.


----------



## ...PACMAN... (May 3, 2015)

Have you looked up the *A*(dvanced) *P*(ower) *M*(anagement) settings for the drive? I have to disable mine both in Windows and in Crystal Disk utility else it just keeps parking it's head and stutters when loading something new in games. Perhaps something to check out?

EDIT - Just checked your video....jeez thats bad and what's going on with your textures? It runs smoother on my lowly machine with a dual core. I'm sure we can sort this, your machine should be able to handle this game with the right settings.


----------



## cooliosis (May 3, 2015)

...PACMAN... said:


> Have you looked up the *A*(dvanced) *P*(ower) *M*(anagement) settings for the drive? I have to disable mine both in Windows and in Crystal Disk utility else it just keeps parking it's head and stutters when loading something new in games. Perhaps something to check out?
> 
> EDIT - Just checked your video....jeez thats bad and what's going on with your textures? It runs smoother on my lowly machine with a dual core. I'm sure we can sort this, your machine should be able to handle this game with the right settings.


My Google skills are awful, do you mind giving me instructions on how to disable Advanced Power Management? That, and I fear of screwing something up. Is this a reliable program to use? http://disablehddapm.blogspot.com/2011/12/disabling-hard-disk-drive-advanced.html
Also, here's another video of what it looks like. You can kinda see the MSI Afterburner overlay more clearly here. Texture problems don't occur, either, but the freezing is still there.


----------



## DinaAngel (May 3, 2015)

cooliosis said:


> Specs:
> EVGA GTX 660 Ti Superclocked 2GB
> i7-3770 @ 3.4GHz
> 8GB RAM, running dual channel @ 1600MHz according to CPU-Z
> ...


I had this too and then I put the game on my ssd and all is fine now


----------



## ...PACMAN... (May 3, 2015)

http://crystalmark.info/software/CrystalDiskInfo/manual-en/AamApm.html - Gives you info

http://crystalmark.info/download/index-e.html - Here's where you download...I use 6.3.2 Standard edition, portable w/o ads version

Once you have opened it, go to - Function,
                                                       Advanced Feature
                                                       AAM/APM Control
Then make sure the right drive is chosen correctly at the top, and in the APM section I just click disable. Not sure if it sticks with reboots as I just have mine constantly on.

Hope that helps 

EDIT - sad to say but your next video doesn't look like APM issues. Newtekie may have got it right, it could be a ram config issue. Although I have only 8GB and run it from an HDD with out an issue.


----------



## Toothless (May 3, 2015)

Slow HDD is slow. I'd use a SSD but $100 more to run a game is dumb. Maybe a SSHD?


----------



## cooliosis (May 3, 2015)

...PACMAN... said:


> snip


Yeah, I can't even disable APM on my hard drive, the APM section is grayed out for me and I can't click disable or enable, unless I'm missing something. I don't assume AAM is the same thing...


Toothless said:


> Slow HDD is slow. I'd use a SSD but $100 more to run a game is dumb. Maybe a SSHD?


Well, I have had this problem with a few other games, and I'd be willing to pay that much for it to go away. But I _do _want to make sure that any purchase that I make will fix it. If it is a hard drive issue, could you safely say that an SSHD would solve the issue? If not, then I'd be willing to shell out the extra cash for an SSD.


----------



## Toothless (May 3, 2015)

I'd do some research before spending the money on it. A buddy of mine runs a SSHD and he loads pretty quickly in games.


----------



## Dan848 (May 3, 2015)

Isn't the OCZ vertex 3 an SSD?

I looked at your System Specs and according to that you have an 60GB OCZ vertex 3, 1TB x2 in RAID 0, and 640GB x2 in RAID 0.  A very unusual setup for a gaming rig.  Are your listed System Specs correct?

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/members/slyfox2151.64773/


----------



## cooliosis (May 3, 2015)

Dan848 said:


> Isn't the OCZ vertex 3 an SSD?
> 
> I looked at your System Specs and according to that you have an 60GB OCZ vertex 3, 1TB x2 in RAID 0, and 640GB x2 in RAID 0.  A very unusual setup for a gaming rig.  Are your listed System Specs correct?
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/members/slyfox2151.64773/


That's not my specs, that's slyfox's 
My specs are in the original post. But I'm going to buy an SSD, everyone in this thread says that it looks like a hard drive issue, so I guess I'll do that. Ran a RAM test with Windows Memory Diagnostics, not sure if it's reliable or not, but it came up with no errors. I'm guessing that the Samsung 850 EVO is a good choice?


----------



## Toothless (May 4, 2015)

Run a ram test with an actual test, not with Windows.


----------



## Dan848 (May 4, 2015)

If you are asking my personal opinion I like Intel SSD's because of their reliability.  I use the Intel 335 Series because they are fast and very reliable.  I also buy boxed versions.  For me, HHD bare drives or OEM are fine, but for SSD I prefer them in a box, along with the drive you get the bracket, screws, and cables.  Also, the box helps keep it from shipping damage.  Intel's 530 series is also good, and a new model, the 535 series is now out and at a reasonable price.

If you do not need the adapter, bracket, screws and cables, then an OEM should be fine.  Newegg does not always have the best price or choice, although they do sometimes have them on sale.  Intel drives here [copy and paste the entire link]:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008120 50001157 4814 600038463&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=30

Use the Intel SSD Toolbox, it is a great utility to keep your Intel SSD cleaned up, use it at least once a week, I use mine more often.  You probably know this, but never defrag an SSD, for one thing it shortens it's life and because it contains no disks [as an HHD] the data does not need to be moved from place to place as is done with defrag.  You can download it here:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/18455/Intel-Solid-State-Drive-Toolbox


----------



## Dan848 (May 4, 2015)

Toothless said:


> Run a ram test with an actual test, not with Windows.



Cooliosis:

I think Toothless means something like the old tried and true memtest86 [download the free version]:
http://www.memtest86.com/download.htm

You can use a bootable USB drive, if your computer supports that, or do like me and make a bootable CD by using the ISO format.


----------



## slyfox2151 (May 4, 2015)

I wouldn't bother with a memtest. This seems like a clear cut case of the hard drive being too slow for the game.


----------



## DinaAngel (May 4, 2015)

cooliosis said:


> That's not my specs, that's slyfox's
> My specs are in the original post. But I'm going to buy an SSD, everyone in this thread says that it looks like a hard drive issue, so I guess I'll do that. Ran a RAM test with Windows Memory Diagnostics, not sure if it's reliable or not, but it came up with no errors. I'm guessing that the Samsung 850 EVO is a good choice?


Evo I wouldn't recommend.  due to the issues it got. I use the 850 pro 512 gb without issues. the 850 pro is higher reliability Than Intel at same pricerange


----------



## DinaAngel (May 4, 2015)

Dan848 said:


> If you are asking my personal opinion I like Intel SSD's because of their reliability.  I use the Intel 335 Series because they are fast and very reliable.  I also buy boxed versions.  For me, HHD bare drives or OEM are fine, but for SSD I prefer them in a box, along with the drive you get the bracket, screws, and cables.  Also, the box helps keep it from shipping damage.  Intel's 530 series is also good, and a new model, the 535 series is now out and at a reasonable price.
> 
> If you do not need the adapter, bracket, screws and cables, then an OEM should be fine.  Newegg does not always have the best price or choice, although they do sometimes have them on sale.  Intel drives here [copy and paste the entire link]:
> 
> ...


Intel doesn't got the best reliability. also theyr not as fast. And very expensive.
it's branded that's why the price. Because people like you think Intel is better. Like mac vs windows pces. People think mac is better so they buy it. Intel isn't automatically best in everything.


----------



## Toothless (May 4, 2015)

Samsung 850 Pro 512GB seems to be the way to go.


----------



## m&m's (May 4, 2015)

DinaAngel said:


> the 850 pro is higher reliability Than Intel at same pricerange





Toothless said:


> Samsung 850 Pro 512GB seems to be the way to go.



Not worth the price premium for home users.
Samsung EVO or Crucial MX200 are the way to go.


----------



## cooliosis (May 4, 2015)

Thanks for the help, everyone. I think I'm going to go for the Samsung EVO because it seems to be a favorite among a lot of people. But one more thing: I'm considering the 120GB version because I'm probably not going to have many games on it at once, only ones that have this sort of issue (which are very few). However, I noticed that the 120GB version of the EVO series has 410MB/s sequential write speed compared to the other models' 520MB/s, among other worse specifications. I'm pretty uneducated on hard drives, so, does the 120GB version have a major disadvantage compared to the other ones? I'm only looking to solve the freezing issues, loading times are just a luxury to me.


----------



## Liquid Cool (May 4, 2015)

Cooliosis...

I believe the 120GB Samsung 850 EVO has 540MB/S read speed and write speed of 520MB/s.

Click Here

If you go down to the specifications tab, you'll see the correct speeds.

I have seen the 240GB drive on sale quite often for 99.00.

Best,

Liquid Cool


----------



## slyfox2151 (May 4, 2015)

This review shows upto 510mbps

http://www.legitreviews.com/samsung-850-evo-series-ssd-review_154548/4


----------



## ChevyOwner (May 4, 2015)

GTAV loads about the same speed for me from both HDD, and SSD. However it does run a bit smoother in game with the SSD.
I turned my page-file off.


----------



## cooliosis (May 5, 2015)

Alright, guess I'm going for the 850 EVO, thanks for the help everyone


----------



## ...PACMAN... (May 5, 2015)

Cooliosis, I hope it sorts the issue out for you but if not, at least you'll have a nice SSD


----------



## puma99dk| (May 5, 2015)

i have GTA 5 running off my Intel 530 480gb SSD and i experience freeze up's only in GTA 5 with my system and only my memory is running XMP and i have gamed more demanding games without failure of any kind but a lot of ppl have trouble with GTA 5 on pc if u search around the internet so i guess GTA 5 just is the problem


----------



## Dan848 (May 6, 2015)

DinaAngel said:


> Intel doesn't got the best reliability. also theyr not as fast. And very expensive.
> it's branded that's why the price. Because people like you think Intel is better. Like mac vs windows pces. People think mac is better so they buy it. Intel isn't automatically best in everything.



Did you even look at the newegg link I supplied?  Newegg has an Intel 120GB 535 series for 69.99, shipping included.  And, you are saying that is expensive?  Copy and paste the entire link into your browser.  Other Intel drives are listed on that page for those that do not want the 535 series.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008120 50001157 4814 600038463&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=30


----------



## puma99dk| (May 6, 2015)

Dan848 said:


> Did you even look at the newegg link I supplied?  Newegg has an Intel 120GB 535 series for 69.99, shipping included.  And, you are saying that is expensive?  Copy and paste the entire link into your browser.  Other Intel drives are listed on that page for those that do not want the 535 series.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008120 50001157 4814 600038463&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=30



Linkfix: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008120%2050001157%204814%20600038463&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=30


----------



## Vayra86 (May 6, 2015)

Don't know if you bought the SSD yet, but I am curious why no one recommends you go for a Crucial MX100. The MX200 is newer and cheaper but has no track record yet (SSD issues show up after a longer period of time, durability matters more than anything). I would definitely avoid the EVO drives because they do not have power safe caps that protect the SSD during power failures, are not cheaper than MX100/200 and have no significant advantage over them either.

MX100 is the number one most trustworthy SSD on the market atm for consumers, but they are no longer being produced (replaced by MX200). Grab one if you can.


----------



## GorbazTheDragon (May 6, 2015)

Vayra86 said:


> Don't know if you bought the SSD yet, but I am curious why no one recommends you go for a Crucial MX100. The MX200 is newer and cheaper but has no track record yet (SSD issues show up after a longer period of time, durability matters more than anything). I would definitely avoid the EVO drives because they do not have power safe caps that protect the SSD during power failures, are not cheaper than MX100/200 and have no significant advantage over them either.
> 
> MX100 is the number one most trustworthy SSD on the market atm for consumers, but they are no longer being produced (replaced by MX200). Grab one if you can.


This. Avoid the EVO, they have been both inconsistent in performance and reliability. It was an interesting design route by Samsung, using cheaper chips with better software to cover the performance gap, but it doesn't seem to work well yet.

I have a 256GB MX100, would definitely recommend it as an entry level SSD, it's not ridiculously fast, but comes pretty close to the SATA6Gbps bottleneck on reads. I think it is one of the best designs to go around, simple and with what seems like very little software. Any lack of speed it has it will make up for in reliability.


----------



## DinaAngel (May 6, 2015)

Dan848 said:


> Did you even look at the newegg link I supplied?  Newegg has an Intel 120GB 535 series for 69.99, shipping included.  And, you are saying that is expensive?  Copy and paste the entire link into your browser.  Other Intel drives are listed on that page for those that do not want the 535 series.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008120 50001157 4814 600038463&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=30


Soo lifetime of 2 years is reliable?


----------



## GorbazTheDragon (May 6, 2015)

Ehh 5 year warranty, I would back that.


----------

