# NVIDIA Admits to Data Corruption Issues with 790i Chipset



## Jimmy 2004 (Apr 17, 2008)

NVIDIA has admitted that its new nForce 790i chipset may cause data corruption when overclocking. A support article on the company's website says:


> NVIDIA has received reports of data corruption when using certain high speed memory and overclocking the front side bus. Our engineers are currently investigating this issue and as soon as we have more information, we will provide an update to this knowledge base article.


Unfortunately NVIDIA hasn't revealed any workarounds or specific details on what causes the data corruption, so it may be best for 790i owners to run at stock speeds until a solution is found.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Cold Storm (Apr 17, 2008)

Glad I didn't pick up that Striker Extreme board! Glad to see that Nvidia admitted to it!


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## ShinyG (Apr 17, 2008)

The "success" story of the post-NF4 nVidia chipsets continues!
First, the all-mighty NF4, which has almost no Vista support when it comes to networking or RAID...
Second, the NF5, which is the old NF4 with a brand new sticker. Marketing rules!
Then the NF6, the "Prescott" of nVidia, a chipset so good, you could heat a bathtub of water with it...
Then the NF7, which either overheats up like crazy, doesn't support the latest Intel processors or uuh, doesn't overclock!
When their CEO said it was time to kick some a**, probably he was thinking of self-inflicted buttage...

Let me hear you all say: "THANK YOU, NVIDIA!!!"


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## Morgoth (Apr 17, 2008)

want to overclock? get an intel chipset for godsake..


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## DaedalusHelios (Apr 17, 2008)

ShinyG said:


> The "success" story of the post-NF4 nVidia chipsets continues!
> First, the all-mighty NF4, which has almost no Vista support when it comes to networking or RAID...
> Second, the NF5, which is the old NF4 with a brand new sticker. Marketing rules!
> Then the NF6, the "Prescott" of nVidia, a chipset so good, you could heat a bathtub of water with it...
> ...



Nvidia has made mistakes just like any other company. ATi users will take note of any weaknesses in the other companies design and whine about it. 

Ati has made me pissed off that they can't churn out drivers that work with all popular games and work with all their cards at the same time. Is it that hard?

Thats just the tip of the iceberg for both companies. We all make mistakes, but to admit the problem is the first step to fixing it.

I love both companies for their strengths and are wary of their weaknesses. Lets not turn this thread into a Nvidia vs. ATi vs. Intel thread.


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## WarEagleAU (Apr 17, 2008)

Well every chipset has growing pains. Remember ATIs first foray into chipsets?


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## ShinyG (Apr 17, 2008)

@DaedalusHelios:

I don't want that either, I just like to make fun of it corporation and their problems!
I don't want to start another vs thread, in fact you were the one to mention ATi and took the oportunity to bash them a bit. Now, THAT's offtopic and can trully start a hateful "vs" thread!

My post reflects my feelings towards nVidia when it comes to their chipsets. Even though I own an AMD CPU and ATi GPU I'm a big fan of the nForce4 chipset. That is precisesly why I'm upset about the decline in the quality of nVidia chipsets... 
That is all my post was ever meant to state, and that is all I had to say, sorry for not being more specific!


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## DaedalusHelios (Apr 17, 2008)

ShinyG said:


> I don't want that either, I just like to make fun of it corporation and their problems!
> I don't want to start another vs thread, you mentioned ATi... Actually, you took the oportunity to bash them a bit. Now, THAT's offtopic and can trully start a hateful "vs" thread!



I am sorry if I hurt your feelings.


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## ShinyG (Apr 17, 2008)

No worries, just wanted to make sure people don't follow up on the whole ATi/nVidia thing..


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## BumbRush (Apr 17, 2008)

ShinyG said:


> The "success" story of the post-NF4 nVidia chipsets continues!
> First, the all-mighty NF4, which has almost no Vista support when it comes to networking or RAID...
> Second, the NF5, which is the old NF4 with a brand new sticker. Marketing rules!
> Then the NF6, the "Prescott" of nVidia, a chipset so good, you could heat a bathtub of water with it...
> ...



not quite correct, the nf500 is the nf4 chipset renamed the 550-570-590 chipsets are acctualy based on the ULI chipsets nvidia bought in the nf4 days, this is true at least for the AMD chipsets, now the intel chipsets, i dont care, i have owned many intel systems in the past and i have alwase found that SiS or Intel chipsets  worked best, ATI chipsets where great but u cant get them anymore because intel didnt like it when AMD bought ATI.....

but i do agree about the vista support, the one thing that i dont like about nvidia is their horrible driver support with what they deside is "lagacy hardware" such as the 7900gx2.....


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## cdawall (Apr 17, 2008)

this is why i went to 580X


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## DOM (Apr 17, 2008)

Morgoth said:


> want to overclock? get an intel chipset for godsake..



ppl and Tri Sli  thats not even worth it


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## EastCoasthandle (Apr 17, 2008)

Ever since the n-force4 people have found problems with data corruption.  This is no isolated incident.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Apr 17, 2008)

Intel Chipset ftw ... go away nvidia


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## TheGuruStud (Apr 17, 2008)

EastCoasthandle said:


> Ever since the n-force4 people have found problems with data corruption.  This is no isolated incident.



I think that was almost all driver related with that SW IDE driver or wtf-ever it's called.


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## Dia01 (Apr 17, 2008)

That's just fan-bloody-tastic!!!  My 780i shat itself, managed to get a refund after a month and a half and awaiting arrival of the Striker 790i.  Because, 1. I wanted a bloody good board.  2. Don't want to upgrade for some time.  3. Want to OC my Q6600 and 4.  I have SLI cards just waiting to rock and roll.  Hopefully a BIOS update will fix the problem otherwise I'm gonna be pissed!!!


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

ouch thats a  to the face and a  to nvidia loyalists.


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## qwerty_lesh (Apr 18, 2008)

THANK YOU, NVIDIA!!!  
if u go single card solution for your pc and dont want to futurproof for SLIme then an intel chipset stomps an nvidia one anyday, dont get me wrong i like nvidia but really they need to improve or go back to gpu only. imho. no flames i burn easy


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## imperialreign (Apr 18, 2008)

BumbRush said:


> not quite correct, the nf500 is the nf4 chipset renamed the 550-570-590 chipsets are acctualy based on the ULI chipsets nvidia bought in the nf4 days, this is true at least for the AMD chipsets, now the intel chipsets, i dont care, i have owned many intel systems in the past and i have alwase found that SiS or Intel chipsets  worked best, *ATI chipsets where great but u cant get them anymore because intel didnt like it when AMD bought ATI.....*
> 
> but i do agree about the vista support, the one thing that i dont like about nvidia is their horrible driver support with what they deside is "lagacy hardware" such as the 7900gx2.....





huh?!  You can still purchase new Intel CPU based boards that have an Intel NSB and ATI SSB.  They're not exactly aimed at the high-end market by any means, but they're still out there.

They tend to be found more with OEM Intel-based setups.


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## qwerty_lesh (Apr 18, 2008)

also, poor dia01 i feel for u bud. and if eastcoast is correct then nvidia is a few too many years late on admitting their chipset problems. i also hope their is a bios update not that i own an nvidia chipset but in a month or so ill probably be working with a few of these chipsets through my workplace, and well if the problems remain i wont want to reccomend them to anyone wanting an oc'd sli rig, but on the other hand as long as the fault gets corrected (if a bios update can correct such a bs fault) then brand name boards with the 790i will probably stomp on other chipsets  that is provided that nvidia gives their chipset the best product support and compatability support they possably can.


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## DaMulta (Apr 18, 2008)

I have the ASUS 790i

I have crashed Vista

I have crashed XP 2 times now

I hope there is a fix soon, it kinda makes you  with a 500 dollar motherboard.

I have trust that it will be fixed....


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Apr 18, 2008)

RMA and come back to teh red faction.


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## X-TeNDeR (Apr 18, 2008)

Data corruption.. AGAIN??!?! 

Luckey my former K8N Neo 2 Platinum (oh the good ol'..) was nForce 3, NVidia was yet to mess the chipset with that one 

The best thing for them is to release a fix ASAP, and advise costumers to apply it (and maybe end this type of problems in their products, too).


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## DanishDevil (Apr 18, 2008)

cdawall said:


> this is why i went to 580X



Lies.  *I* am why you went 580X


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## tkpenalty (Apr 18, 2008)

This is something similar to the B2 Phenom's TLB bug..


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Apr 18, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> This is something similar to the B2 Phenom's TLB bug..



But unlike the TLB bug it is more prominent if i read correctly.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

TLB was affected like every other part, *50 line fixed it for entire lineup.


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## btarunr (Apr 18, 2008)

BumbRush said:


> not quite correct, the nf500 is the nf4 chipset renamed the 550-570-590 chipsets are acctualy based on the ULI chipsets nvidia bought in the nf4 days,



No, NVidia acquired ULi after NF 550-570-590. The following chipsets are touted to be based on ULi chipsets:

500, 500 SLI, 520, 520 LE, 560, 560 SLI.


So let's say NVidia screwed up bigger time than AMD (TLB bug fiasco). Since 790i Ultra SLI is meant for extreme OC and they advertise it as the 'fastest motherboard', such a serious error as data corruption will kill it. Nobody in the right mind who wants extreme OC would buy NF 790i if SLI isn't needed. Instead, extreme OC'ers would jump to X48 + 2x HD3870 X2......'smarter choice'


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

i wouldnt be surprised if the 780i overclocks higher than the 790 just like how the 865PE was back in the day


btarunr said:


> No, NVidia acquired ULi after NF 550-570-590. The following chipsets are touted to be based on ULi chipsets:
> 
> 500, 500 SLI, 520, 520 LE, 560, 560 SLI.
> 
> ...


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## Sh3ngLong (Apr 18, 2008)

I just finished building my EVGA 790i system this morning.  Fortunately I've just been benchmarking my QX9650 at stock speed.  I guess I'll wait for further news before I do any OC'ing.


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## btarunr (Apr 18, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> i wouldnt be surprised if the 780i overclocks higher than the 790 just like how the 865PE was back in the day



Yeah but 780i is DDR2...no 'elitist' OC'er would settle for DDR2, not to forget, 'official' lack of FSB 1600 support for 780i SLI.

By 'elitist' I'm referring to that segment of buyers that splurge with components, the target buyers of boards based on P35 (DDR3), X38/X48, 790i Ultra SLI, etc. 

For the price of a DDR2 780i SLI, users would much rather settle for DDR3 boards based on P35 or the DDR3 X38 board made by Intel, DX38BT.


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## hat (Apr 18, 2008)

I think Nvidia should just stop making motherboards and stick to making video cards. Let Intel handle the chipset work for Intel boards, they seem to be good at it. Let AMD handle the AMD boards, they are good at it as well.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 18, 2008)

like how it is on the X38?

ya thats whats odd, but Majority of overclockers are still on DDR2, DDR3 is still yet to get there, I think my next rig maybe DDR3 but who knows.


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## Dia01 (Apr 18, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> I have the ASUS 790i
> 
> I have crashed Vista
> 
> ...



AHHHHHHH!  NO! NO! NO!  That is not good news!  I want good news only!


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## Solaris17 (Apr 18, 2008)

i have an NF4 maybe im lucky but i havent suffered data curruption nor have i ever had chipset driver problems with it than again i dont run raid...for some reason i feel higher load times out weighs loosing all my data when a drive decided to fail....no thanks...so im not sure what you guys are talking about but atleast they admitted the problem every chipset has its good and bads imho and experiance

Intel chipsets dont let me OC much

ATI chipsets are rpetty stable

Nvidia chipsets let me OC till my proc burns personal luck and opinion here though and seeing as thats alot of what ppl are posting im not sure personal luck and opinions really matter that much here we could argue all day about which ones better but who cares if each one fixes its problems? i mean some like intel or ati or nvidia but the base of the arguments stems NOT from weather or not weve used them all but rather from the experiance we have had with them which is based off of personal expertice steepping batch and revision of chipset...so i dont think any of us can talk much smack with all the variables considered.


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## Solaris17 (Apr 18, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Yeah but 780i is DDR2...no extreme OC'er would settle for DDR2, not to forget, 'official' lack of FSB 1600 support for 780i SLI.



i run DDR2 i consider myself pretty extreme....i dont really think thats fair...if i remember correctly WR yet to be broken were had on DDR2 and if i do some quick system spec browsing some of the best clockers on this forum are still on the DDR2 bandwagon..


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## GSG-9 (Apr 18, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Yeah but 780i is DDR2...no extreme OC'er would settle for DDR2



I disagree with that, Im not extreme by any means, I dont even have my TEC hooked up, but I dont personally know a single over clocker who has implemented DDR3, and from the people I 'know' online. They dont see huge gains from it. This year is the year people will be switching to ddr3, as prices fall and the tech matures. So far its been an early adopters item.


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## btarunr (Apr 18, 2008)

Solaris17 said:


> i run DDR2 i consider myself pretty extreme....i dont really think thats fair...if i remember correctly WR yet to be broken were had on DDR2 and if i do some quick system spec browsing some of the best clockers on this forum are still on the DDR2 bandwagon..



By 'extreme' I was referring to the likes of FUGGER or k|ngp|n, etc. Those dudes with copper pots, TEC setups, cylinders of L. Nitrogen handy. In other words, the target audience/users of 790i SLI / X38/X48 / 790 FX, etc.


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## Solaris17 (Apr 18, 2008)

o okm i thought you were doubting skillz of the ppl on this forum and that might offend a bunch of ppl who worked damn hard to get like 4ghz etc...not A PERSONAL ATTACK MIND YOU BTA  your on my friends list  just lookin out. as for fugger and kingpin ya those guys are in a diff league to me...extremists are ppl like trt and pauling who push crazy limits fugger kingpin and some of those guys...ELITESTS


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## btarunr (Apr 18, 2008)

Whoa. I'm not offending anyone. I should have used the term Xtreme OC'ers instead.


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## Solaris17 (Apr 18, 2008)

well i know what you were trying to say but OC'r pride can get in the way if it was a said a little diff i my self would have been like wtf r u serious? because i know i tried hella hard to get my rig were it is now...im just saying that some ppl who have just gotten their rig stable or spent the last 6months to get 3ghz or get thair ram past 1000mhz and went without a ciggarette for more than 4 hours might see it a bit diff


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## btarunr (Apr 18, 2008)

*sigh* edited.

It's over an year since DDR3 is in the market as a technology, we can't brand it 'immature' at this point. A technology being expensive at a given point in time isn't indicative of it being 'immature'.


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## Solaris17 (Apr 18, 2008)

btarunr said:


> *sigh* edited.
> 
> It's over an year since DDR3 is in the market as a technology, we can't brand it 'immature' at this point. A technology being expensive at a given point in time isn't indicative of it being 'immature'.



......yes


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## DaedalusHelios (Apr 18, 2008)

Solaris17 said:


> well i know what you were trying to say but OC'r pride can get in the way if it was a said a little diff i my self would have been like wtf r u serious? because i know i tried hella hard to get my rig were it is now...im just saying that some ppl who have just gotten their rig stable or spent the last 6months to get 3ghz or get thair ram past 1000mhz and went without a ciggarette for more than 4 hours might see it a bit diff



Cigarettes? Screw that! To expensive. (I am not looter dude or anything but cigs are way to expensive of a habit) 

Think of what hardware all those cigarettes could have bought.


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## Mussels (Apr 18, 2008)

EastCoasthandle said:


> Ever since the n-force4 people have found problems with data corruption.  This is no isolated incident.



actually it was on the NForce 3 when overclocking with faulty SATA ports... and Nforce 2 had problems with 1T ram timings and crackling sound...


To be honest, i'm dissapointed in Nvidia for the reason that their chipsets just suck. Let intel chipsetsrun SLI already while you fix your hardware.



Sh3ngLong said:


> I just finished building my EVGA 790i system this morning.  Fortunately I've just been benchmarking my QX9650 at stock speed.  I guess I'll wait for further news before I do any OC'ing.



the problem appears to be high FSB/high ram related, with a Qx you can at least raise the multi and get SOME clocking done


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## BumbRush (Apr 18, 2008)

im still waiting on the nvidiots to say this isnt a problem or the like,,,,,,lol


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## warhammer (Apr 18, 2008)

Reviews   get engineered sampled for reviews and we go out and buy them.
We read how good and reliable and how well it OC if you have a Q6600 do not get a 790 until new bios come out.
Build it to the same spec and you cant OC it crashes there driver issues bios issues and corruption issues.  We get ripped off.


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## cdawall (Apr 18, 2008)

DanishDevil said:


> Lies.  *I* am why you went 580X


no i was leaning tht way i wanted to try out some new ATi cards 



tkpenalty said:


> This is something similar to the B2 Phenom's TLB bug..



not even close this bug actually shows up when you are using the PC unlike the TLB bug which i have yet to see anyone crash because of


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## GSG-9 (Apr 18, 2008)

btarunr said:


> *sigh* edited.
> 
> It's over an year since DDR3 is in the market as a technology, we can't brand it 'immature' at this point. A technology being expensive at a given point in time isn't indicative of it being 'immature'.




$500 DDR3 ram has a Cas Latency of 8. I call that immature, I dont expect it to be 2 like DDR, but I expect it lower than 8. Newer technology that runs faster should not be an excuse to stop aspiring to tighter timings.


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## Mussels (Apr 18, 2008)

DDR2 is a mature technology - its intention was originally 533MHz only (DDR1 meant to stop at 266, for the record)

DDR2 ram has gone from 533Mhz to over 1100 in 'stock' speeds and you can still manage that on CL4 (which is less than original, i beleive the JEDEC standard Is CL5)

DDR3 on the other hand can manage 1800MHz or so stock already at CL8 - its not faster yet although it is competitive, the pricing is just nasty.


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## DaMulta (Apr 18, 2008)

I like the overclockers on this board.

techPowerUp! FTW!!!!!


It's cool here, because you get a mix of ocing for games, and for records. We may not have the sponsorship that the people on XS have for world records, but we do good with what we have IMO. I have seen some really cool stuff here over the years.

++++ you know that those XS guys get the cool techPowerUp! soft!!!!



DDR3 well hmmmm, I have had it for a couple of weeks now. I havent been able to crank it up to the high high speeds as of yet. I'm still working in the DDR2 speeds.

Low in DDR3 is just as good, or not as good as high end DDR2 is at the moment. This will change here soon, when DDR2 starts to slow down, and they start making a crap load of DDR3.


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## NU(GFX)T (Apr 18, 2008)

I had my problems with NF4 and RAID corruption, and of course I didn't run stock clocks back then so it might just have been an isuue with OC+RAID+SLI.

Non of my windows installations lasted more than a month on RAID configs, then I just gave up on RAID and switched to ATi xpress3200 chipset for A64 CPUs with ULi south bridge the  moment I could get my hands on one.(RAID was on ULi chipset)

Man was it a super stable board.  I had two ATi cards in CrossFire and OCed CPU and RAID0 config.I never faced data corruption. Not even once. One of the best configs I ever had with that DFI UT CFX 3200 mobo. 

That makes me wonder what on earth did nVIDIA do to ULi? We have seen two new generations of nForce chips after nVIDIA's acquisition   of ULi (three if you count the NF5) yet they still have data corruption issues. At least I know that ULi can design chipsets wich operate stable when the system is overclocked. Did nV just flush ULi down the drain after the buyout instead of using their expertise in designing chipsets?


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## GSG-9 (Apr 18, 2008)

NU(GFX)T said:


> I had my problems with NF4 and RAID corruption, and of course I didn't run stock clocks back then so it might just have been an isuue with OC+RAID+SLI.
> 
> Non of my windows installations lasted more than a month on RAID configs, then I just gave up on RAID and switched to ATi xpress3200 chipset for A64 CPUs with ULi south bridge the  moment I could get my hands on one.(RAID was on ULi chipset)
> 
> ...



I had issues with my NF4 as well, The intel Chipset on my Foxconn has had corruption twice. But it managed to recover the raid and go back to the green 'healthy' status.


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## imperialreign (Apr 18, 2008)

GSG-9 said:


> $500 DDR3 ram has a Cas Latency of 8. I call that immature, I dont expect it to be 2 like DDR, but I expect it lower than 8. Newer technology that runs faster should not be an excuse to stop aspiring to tighter timings.



I can't say CAS-8 is immature for DDR3, considering that DDR3 (IIRC) supports higher bandwidth over DDR2, runs at a lower supply voltage, and is capable of extreme speeds; but based upon what I've seen, read, and experienced with my setup - at the speeds that DDR3 runs best at, you can't have such low timings as found with DDR2 - not unless you have a highly effective DRAM cooling solution to deal with the heat of low timings and an insane clock speed, and even still, because of the bandwidth of the modules, it's hard to break any tighter than a CAS of 5.

I wouldn't say the technology is immature, as it's been around since 04-05.  We didn't really start seeing implimentation until last year, though.  The price of DDR3, IMO, is immature still - it's too costly for most to justify upgrading a system to, and there's too much stigma, IMO, as to DDR3's performance.


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## btarunr (Apr 18, 2008)

GSG-9 said:


> $500 DDR3 ram has a Cas Latency of 8. I call that immature, I dont expect it to be 2 like DDR, but I expect it lower than 8. Newer technology that runs faster should not be an excuse to stop aspiring to tighter timings.



Oh....so since DDR2 1066 operate at CL 5, they're immature too, and so are DDR2 800 at CL 4. I want them all to operate at CL 2 ~ CL 2.5, the timings at which PC-133 SDRAM operated 

DRAM latency is high for a reason, being that at that high clock-rate you can't maintin such tight timings. Besides, tight timings don't alone mean better performance, DDR3 scales to higher bandwidth. It's bandwidth that counts.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 19, 2008)

hence why i got the PC 4000 DDR back in the day, Designed for Clock Pushing, now lets get back on Topic which is Nvidia, Not RAM.


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## AddSub (Apr 19, 2008)

Interesting. I see many of you are reporting NF4 RAID issues. I have three nForce4 based systems and I'm running RAID0 on two of them. I have been running RAID0 on them for long time now and I've never experienced any corruption issues or anything similar. 

Could it be because all my systems are AMD+NF4? Maybe Intel+NF4 = higher chance of RAID problems/corruption?


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Apr 19, 2008)

Jimmy 2004 said:


> NVIDIA has admitted that its new nForce 790i chipset may cause data corruption when overclocking. A support article on the company’s website says:
> 
> Unfortunately NVIDIA hasn’t revealed any workarounds or specific details on what causes the data corruption, so it may be best for 790i owners to run at stock speeds until a solution is found.
> 
> Source: NVIDIA



Sure am glad I went with the 500i series.


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## GSG-9 (Apr 19, 2008)

DDR2 is standard and implemented by all hardware developers currently (save those already using DDR3). All the market for ram, we can generalize and say there 2% on something else, and company's have (EXPENSIVE) boards  out for early adopters with DDR3.  That makes it mature, its being implemented, improved and used theres is and HAS BEEN a market and incentive for companies to push the technology. DDR3 has NOT been implemented for an extended period and until quite recently has not been implemented by motherboard makers/chipsets.
Wow, good job its been around for three/four years. GDDR5 was announced  4/5 months ago, it must be being used and improved in this time even though its not on the market. Boxx built  computers that had 12 cores starting around 2004 therefore 12 core computers should be a mature viable solution by now. 

I said I did not expect a latency of 2. High end DDR2 still outperforms DDR3 as far as I know. By the definition of the word, it is a more effective and mature technology. 



AddSub said:


> Could it be because all my systems are AMD+NF4? Maybe Intel+NF4 = higher chance of RAID problems/corruption?


I had a Athlon 64 2800+/3000+/3200 M/Opitron 148 when I had corruption, but I believe mine was due to overclocks.


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## btarunr (Apr 19, 2008)

Two things, price isn't indicative of a product getting mature, secondly timings of DRAM are proportional to their speeds, and it's not possible for manufacturers to make mainstream DDR3 products that operate at the timings of DDR2, just as DDR2 couldn't operate at the timings of DDR..... Find me a DDR2 800 module that is rated to operate at CL 2T (OCZ made one that is rated to run at CL 3T, but that's as far as it went), I'll find you a DDR 400 module that does, similarly, DDR3 doesn't operate at such tight timings because of the high frequency at which it operates. 

Finally, maturity of a product doesn't mean the market receives it better (unless maturity means price-cuts). You still get a i975X based motherboard for $175 made by ASUS....that's pretty 'mature'.


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## GSG-9 (Apr 19, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Two things, price isn't indicative of a product getting mature, secondly timings of DRAM are proportional to their speeds, and it's not possible for manufacturers to make mainstream DDR3 products that operate at the timings of DDR2, just as DDR2 couldn't operate at the timings of DDR..... Find me a DDR2 800 module that is rated to operate at CL 2T (OCZ made one that is rated to run at CL 3T, but that's as far as it went), I'll find you a DDR 400 module that does, similarly, DDR3 doesn't operate at such tight timings because of the high frequency at which it operates.
> 
> Finally, maturity of a product doesn't mean the market receives it better (unless maturity means price-cuts). You still get a i975X based motherboard for $175 made by ASUS....that's pretty 'mature'.



I did not mention price once.
Then get me a DDR3 module that is at CL4. When 2 came out you could buy CL8-13. going from 8 to 3 is a significant difference. When DDR3 goes to 5 it will be a hell of a lot closer. But it probably wont because companies wont push hard enough for it.


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## btarunr (Apr 19, 2008)

That's my point. As speeds go up, you can't maintain timings that low. Each generation of DRAM has its own standards of timings. Something like CL 6 / 7 for 1600 MHz DDR3 can be considered 'tight'. You can't use the timing standards of a previous generation to judge DDR3. End of it you know which is faster.


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## DaMulta (Apr 19, 2008)

I want 2000Mhz at 3-3-3-10 what's wrong with that?


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## btarunr (Apr 19, 2008)

Nothing wrong, just don't expect them to be priced mainstream, and definitely not in the near future. With Cell-Shock, Crucial, OCZ and Corsair our there, it doesn't look impossible. 

We still don't have DDR2 1200 kits that run stable at 3-3-3-10 right now, talk about DDR3 2000.


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## imperialreign (Apr 19, 2008)

GSG-9 said:


> I said I did not expect a latency of 2. High end DDR2 still outperforms DDR3 as far as I know. By the definition of the word, it is a more effective and mature technology.



Maybe as far as speed and timings are concerned, but when compared to the bandwidth of DDR3 . . . no, it's just not possible.  DDR3 can transfer more blocks of information per clock cycle than DDR2 can.

All I'm saying, is that one can't compare performance of DDR2 and DDR3 based upon latency timings - as has been pointed out a few times already, with higher memory clock speeds come loose timings.  There's really no way around it as far as system stability is concerned.

One can push DDR3 quite low from white I understand, but the tighter the timings at higher clock rates requires better cooling solutions for the DRAM modules beyond what a stock or aftermarket heatspreader is capable of.  For most setups, you'd more than likely need a good, active cooling solution.

Just to point out: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=754108#post754108 - although those sticks might only be rated at CAS-8, with an active liquid cooling solution in the hands of skilled OCers, I'd fathom to bet those sticks capable of hitting at least CAS-4 @ 2000MHz.  Give the extreme reviewers some time on that one . . .


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 19, 2008)

this article is totally lost, it goes from nvidia botching something up to people changing the subject, unbelievable.


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## Mussels (Apr 19, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> this article is totally lost, it goes from nvidia botching something up to people changing the subject, unbelievable.



its cause the fanboys havent come in to defend NV yet, we're just wasting time.


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## btarunr (Apr 19, 2008)

Discussing DDR3 and comparing 780i SLI to 790i SLI and its USP, the DDR3 memory is the ongoing topic here, it has nothing to do at all with the topic going off-track. 

Yes, NVidia screwed up with 790i SLI, but we tend to forget, the 790i is NVidia's first chipset with a DDR3 memory controller. They shouldn't have tagged it 'for extreme overclocking', and that's the screw up here, that when you overclock, there's a data corruption issue. Lesson to learn: when coming up with new technology, don't launch it in a big way, don't promise things you can't live up to. They could have done away with the 'fastest motherboard' ad campaign and stuck to 'SLI now with DDR3 support'. But that's no excuse.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 20, 2008)

this just proves nvidia isn't perfect like everyone thinks they are.


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