# Fermi DirectX 12 support error in GPU-z



## agent_x007 (May 8, 2016)

Hello
First post here, but this is important.
GPU-z is wrongly suggesting that Fermi cards already have DirectX 12 support (with FL_11 functionality).

I used GTX 570 (Fermi) and GTX 780 Ti (Kepler), to compare DirectX 12 support in them.
Some screenshots from DXDIAG (from Windows 10), for both GPU's :

GTX 570 :
DirectX 11.3 - http://i.imgur.com/Unf1ASU.png
WDDM 2.0 - http://i.imgur.com/bFqDdfr.png

GTX 780 Ti :
DirectX 12 - http://i.imgur.com/zKj7m9p.png
WDDM 2.0 - http://i.imgur.com/8O2StT9.png

Also, GTX 780 Ti can be tested in DirectX 12 API Overhead test (from 3DMark), while GTX 570 cannot.
GTX 780 Ti : http://www.3dmark.com/aot/135503
GTX 570 : http://www.3dmark.com/aot/135189

Conclusion : 
GTX 780 Ti is indeed utilising DirectX 12, while GTX 570 is using DirectX *11.3 *(both have signed WDDM 2.0 drivers installed).

Thanku U for your time and I hope U guys can fix this.


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## P4-630 (May 8, 2016)

agent_x007 said:


> Thanku U for your time and I hope U guys can fix this.



The problem lies probably at Nvidia...


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## agent_x007 (May 8, 2016)

It's true that Nvidia is already 5 months late with Fermi DX12 support, BUT GPU-z isn't Nvidia's software.
I thought that when "auto detect" function is wrong, someone can just patch GPU-z so that it will show what's real regardless of what auto detection fuction reports.

Is it not possible to make GPU-z show for example "11.3", instead of "12 (FL_11)" in Fermi's case ?


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## Naki (May 8, 2016)

It is possible. Please note there is no auto-detection function - each GPU is seprately detected by GPU-Z.
You will have to wait for the maker of GPU-Z - W1zzard - to reply and comment on this.


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## agent_x007 (May 8, 2016)

OK, thanks.
PS. Auto-detect : 
U don't have to push a dedicated "Detect button" within GPU-z, to see all GPU specs (it's automatic)


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## Caring1 (May 9, 2016)

I've got an older card that shows 12(11_1) but when you click on look up, it brings you to the Techpowerup page for that card and shows Dx 11_2.
Have you tried that with your card to see what is listed there?


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## Mussels (May 9, 2016)

@W1zzard 

Can you confirm this is a GPU-Z bug, or is it being read from windows/drivers?


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## Naki (May 9, 2016)

agent_x007 said:


> OK, thanks.
> PS. Auto-detect :
> U don't have to push a dedicated "Detect button" within GPU-z, to see all GPU specs (it's automatic)


It may look automatic to you, but it is not - lots of work done  "behind the scene" by GPU-Z to detect what GPU you have.


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## agent_x007 (Jun 2, 2016)

Still not fixed 




PS. Isn't Pixel Fillrate kinda low for 24 ROP's ? NVM
I checked with 3DMark Vantage - it really is that low... : LINK


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## agent_x007 (Oct 1, 2016)

Someone ?


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## Recon-UK (Oct 1, 2016)

Looks normal to me, Windows 10 is a DX12 supported OS, in brackets it tells you explicitly what version it supports and that is DX 11_0


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## Mussels (Oct 1, 2016)

DX12 support on DX11 hardware. totally normal.


That uhh, took a few months for that screenshot.


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## agent_x007 (Oct 1, 2016)

OK, so why Futuremark's Time Spy test does not work on Fermi (test doesn't even start) ?

DirectX 11 hardware, no DirectX 12 support :



^that's how Fermi's DirectX support should look like in GPU-z.

EDIT :
@down 
Exactly.


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## Recon-UK (Oct 1, 2016)

Fermi does not work with any DX12 games or apps i should know i run a 580 in my AMD build lol.


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## hojnikb (Oct 1, 2016)

Fermi does support DX12, but only with certain beta driver version (cant remember which it is).
Otherwise no. Hardware could technically support DX12, but as of 2016, there are no current drivers, that support it (other than above mentioned beta).


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## Mussels (Oct 1, 2016)

thats something to take up with nvidia, as they claimed it was supported and never delivered the drivers.


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## agent_x007 (Oct 1, 2016)

@up Nvidia only did WDDM 2.0 driver (it's included in latest drivers as well).
Still : GPU-z isn't software made by NV, so it's not their job to fix it's detection error.



Recon-UK said:


> Looks normal to me, Windows 10 is a DX12 supported OS, in brackets it tells you explicitly what version it supports and that is DX 11_0


Both new screenshots (for GTX 580 and HD 5870), were done on Windows XP SP3 (OS not compatible with DX11/10 either  )

Here's a thought :
Can GPU-z have Feature level cap based on Windows running ?
Example HD 5870 + Windows XP :
DirectX support : 9.0c (Hardware : 11.0)


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## Recon-UK (Oct 1, 2016)

Nvidia did say Fermi would be DX12 compatible but only basic components of it, however it fails to support DX12.

TPU are actually accurate because the GPU obviously supports it but drivers disable it.


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## agent_x007 (Oct 1, 2016)

To me, if something can't run tests that utilise a specific function - that function is not supported, ergo - it shouldn't be advertised as "supported".
In short : Fermi is DirectX 11 (or 11.4 ) device, until it can run DirectX 12 tests.
Don't show something that isn't there.

PS. Here's API Overhead test for GTX 580 (driver 372.90) : LINK.
Some progress was made :
We are at DirectX 11.*4* with Fermi (thanks to WDDM 2.1 driver) 

And this is how Dxdiag looks like :


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## P4-630 (Oct 1, 2016)

I think something went wrong with your driver install:  "ForceWare 0.00"...


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## agent_x007 (Oct 1, 2016)

Well both AIDA64 and NVInspector show it OK :








3DMark Fire Strike score is also where it should be : LINK.


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## qubit (Oct 1, 2016)

@agent_x007 GPU-Z is showing you what the OS can support and in brackets what the card can support. There's no error here so no point in going OCD over this. Just let it go before the mods close this thread.

EDIT: Looking carefully at the screenshots, I've realized that you're taking screenshots using different operating systems and GPU-Z versions. You're mixing up GPU-Z versions and Windows XP and W7 and not telling anyone, so you're just causing confusion. You need to state which OS you took the screenshot from. Duh.  Who cares about XP nowadays anyway?

I suspect that you're confused too.


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## agent_x007 (Oct 1, 2016)

@up
GPU-z tells what OS is running (right side of the driver version, just after the "/" sign ?).

I used Win XP, Win 7 and Win 10 to show what different OS'es change in the matter (and they are showing exact same thing).

GPU-z is not showing what OS can support, but what GPU supports ("in theory at least").
If it's otherwise, then explain to me how can I have "*DirectX 12 (11_0)*" support in *Win XP/Win 7* according to GPU-z (lol) ?

Mixing GPU-z versions :
I thought newer versions will do something about it - I was wrong.

If you guys want to showcase DirectX12 support for GPU's that clearly can't run DirectX 12 tests (and even M$ dxdiag tool says it doesn't have DX12 fuctionality) - that's your way of doing things.
I would like to see it fixed, or at least explained to avoid this kinds of posts :
"GPU-z clearly shows that Fermi supports DirectX 12, but I can't run anything in DX12 on my GTX 560 Ti - what's wrong ?".


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## Naki (Oct 1, 2016)

Wrong channel/forum for this! You must ask in 3DMark Support forums, not here.
And ask them - can my card (brand, exact model goes here) run your new DX12 Time Spy test? If yes, then you ask "What do I need to do to get it working?".
If they say NO, then you obviously stop tinkering with the issue and your ancient card.

That said, my 1 generation newer card - GTX 670 - also does not support DX12, but can run 3DMark Time Spy test just fine.
NOTE: I had to uninstall some things however to get it working. Uninstall of RivaTuner Stats Server, MSI Afterburner, and I think 1-2 other smaller tweaks were needed.
OS must be Windows 10, or you cannot use DX12. DX12 is present in Windows 10 ONLY.


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## agent_x007 (Oct 1, 2016)

Check Win version in my API Overhead test (I am running Win 10 Anniversary Edition on that GTX 580).

I already did ask Futuremark, and admin there said that if driver "doesn't like" DX12 rendering request, it will not run : LINK.
I did my homework on this topic - that's why I'm here.
It can be as Recon-UK said earlier (driver disabled function), or as I think (it simply wasn't there in the first place).
Either way, my problem here is that Fermi can't run DX12 tests (and probably never will), so it shoudn't have it in "DirectX Support" section of the GPU-z program.

GTX 670 does support DirectX 12 (why you think it didn't support it ?).
Here's my sister's PC, and her Time Spy score : LINK (installed and run, no drama).

Now :
If you compare GPU-z info from it (GTX 670) and GTX 580, you will see that it's identical in DirectX support section "12 (FL_11)". Difference is : GTX 670 will run Time Spy, and GTX 580 will not.
Do you see why I can have "a problem" with that ?


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## P4-630 (Oct 1, 2016)

If you want/need to run games/benchmarks DX12, just buy a proper new card that supports it and be done with it!!!


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## alucasa (Oct 1, 2016)

Why is OP talking about his issue here?


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## Naki (Oct 1, 2016)

Fill in your forum PC specs, please. If you did, OS, card, CPU, RAM/etc would be clear. They are not now!


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## agent_x007 (Oct 1, 2016)

Why you all assume I use this GPU in my main rig ?

I own a GTX 780 Ti already, I wanted to point out that GPU-z has an issue.
Where else can I point out my issue with GPU-z if not here (this is TechPowerUp forum section for "TechPowerUp GPU-z", right) ?
Wow...

To keep it simple : GPU-z lies about DirectX 12 support in Fermi GPU's.

This is the same for GPU-z :





But it isn't the same for Microsoft Dxdiag tool (and all DirectX 12 capable programs) :








I *hope* it can be fixed.

Thank you.


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## Naki (Oct 1, 2016)

You should fill them in regardless. Common forum courtesy.

OK, in what way do you imagine this should get fixed in GPU-Z? Not clear.
What exactly do you want changed in the info GPU-Z shows, and to what value(s)?

And, YES, as others in this thread say, this ancient card is to be retired - thrown in the trash, given to someone you hate, OR maybe someone that does not play any PC video games but needs a basic discrete (and working) card.
OR donated to an orphanage, or retirement home/etc.

And then it can (and should!) be forever forgotten by you.
Cards with 4 GB of videoRAM are starting to not cut it for games these days. This card has 1.5 GB, for crying out loud!


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## qubit (Oct 1, 2016)

Naki said:


> And, YES, as others in this thread say, this ancient card is to be retired - thrown in the trash


I still have my beloved GTX 580. How dare you suggest that I throw it in the trash! 

@agent_x007 Regardless of whether you're technically right or wrong about what GPU-Z displays, as W1zzard hasn't got back to you about it in several months you're completely wasting your time going on about it as he's not going to change it and will keep ignoring you. Once again, just let it go.


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## agent_x007 (Oct 1, 2016)

What I would like to see in GPU-z (for all Fermi cards) :
"DirectX Support : *11*" instead of "DirectX Support : *12 (FL_11)*".
I waited few months in hopes of him (W1zzard) writing something back, but he didn't - that's why I reminded of myself.

Well, at least when someone creates thread about "Fermi supports DirectX 12 - says GPU-z", I will have a place to send him to...

As for throwing away GTX 580 :
Can't someone just collect old GPUs ?
I like my MSI GTX 580 Lighting, and because of that it's not going anywhere.
It may be old, but it still is the fastest GTX 5xx series card with one GPU  (not counting the 3GB version )

PS. I filled my PC specs in my profile


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## qubit (Oct 1, 2016)

agent_x007 said:


> What I would like to see in GPU-z (for all Fermi cards) :
> "DirectX Support : *11*" instead of "DirectX Support : *12 (FL_11)*".
> I waited few months in hopes of him (W1zzard) writing something back, but he didn't - that's why I reminded of myself.
> 
> ...


I get you're new here and didn't realize, but when w1z doesn't reply you might as well just forget about it.  He will have seen what you wrote and decided that it's not worth his time to fix or address, but at least you know that he's seen it. In the end, it's a free utility that's very useful for us enthusiasts, so we can't complain too much. 

I'm with you on the old graphics cards, dude. I've got loads of them and they're not going anywhere. Here's a list of just some of them that I posted about in another thread yesterday:


qubit said:


> There are several: 7950 GX2, 8800 GTX, 8800 Ultra (offset cooler reference version) GTX 295 (single board version) 9800 GX2, GTX 590 (I have 3, but don't tell anyone) GTX 780 Ti (such a beast of a card, with the full uncut Kepler GPU and still powerful today). And the runt of the litter, the HD 2900 Pro (bios flashed to XT). The card looks simply beautiful even if it can't compete with its competition, the 8800 GTX.
> 
> Except for the 9800 GX2, which I sold on eBay, (sold 3 at a nice profit  ) I have all of those cards and crucially, they all work. These babies are going nowhere.  The 7950 GX2 in particular, with its tiny, noisy fans is known for unreliability, so it's great that I managed to bag a brand new EVGA one in its sealed box at a firesale, which works perfectly.


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## alucasa (Oct 1, 2016)

Actually, Wizard is on a 2 week holiday.


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## dorsetknob (Oct 1, 2016)

agent_x007 said:


> Can't someone just collect old GPUs ?


I will take it off you   then its not your problem anymore


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## Recon-UK (Oct 1, 2016)

Yeah my 670 runs TimeSpy at less than 1FPS.. 580 can't run it.

Not seeing how this is a big deal.


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## agent_x007 (Oct 1, 2016)

Recon-UK said:


> Yeah my 670 runs TimeSpy at less than 1FPS.. 580 can't run it.
> 
> Not seeing how this is a big deal.


Less than 1FPS ?
You better check your GPU, my sisters GTX 670 FTW gets over 10x that (LINK).

It's not about performance, but about information you are getting.
Never tell someone a product supports something when in reality it doesn't/can't - it's a bad idea.
What If : Some higher-up NV software employee thinks that Fermi already has DirectX 12 "because GPU-z says so" ?

EDIT : 
@down As always : Using exaggeration when "needed" (1FPS = 10FPS...).


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## Recon-UK (Oct 1, 2016)

agent_x007 said:


> Less than 1FPS ?
> You better check your GPU, my sisters GTX 670 FTW gets over 10x that (LINK).
> 
> It's not about performance, but about information you are getting.
> ...










It's an absolute slide show.


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## alucasa (Oct 1, 2016)

Man, someone's world is really coming down, isn't it.


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## agent_x007 (Oct 1, 2016)

alucasa said:


> Man, someone's world is really coming down, isn't it.


Yup, he just realised GTX 670 is too slow to play AoS with DX12 on max...


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## Recon-UK (Oct 1, 2016)

LOL this guy.

I will give you a cookie for the try at deflection.


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## Frick (Oct 1, 2016)

agent_x007 said:


> What If : Some higher-up NV software employee thinks that Fermi already has DirectX 12 "because GPU-z says so" ?



That is definitely their problem. 

I kinda agree though, it is confusing if you have no idea what it is and all those different blasted feature levels. I have 12 (11_0) in that box and I've no idea what that means, and the popup is kinda useless tbh. I know what my GPU can do anyway, so I kinda get it anyway, but I can see people getting genuinly confused.

Thing is I'm pretty sure GPU-Z just reads the drivers (as might have been pointed out already), and wiz might not be interested in entering that info manually into the program.


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## Naki (Oct 2, 2016)

@Frick - nope. The DX XX (YY in brackets) levels are coming from GPU-Z and not any drivers.

Original poster - thanks for filling in the specs!


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## rtwjunkie (Oct 2, 2016)

agent_x007 said:


> What If : Some higher-up NV software employee thinks that Fermi already has DirectX 12 "because GPU-z says so" ?



I have no idea why you would think so.  W1zzard doesn't make stuff up.  He designed a program that reads the information from the drivers and hardware, so why NV would be referring to GPU-z I don't know.  He merely takes the information provided from NV and AMD.


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## agent_x007 (Oct 2, 2016)

Maybe ALL NV employees are smart enough to know this [Fermi doesn't support DX12], but I doubt it.
Either way, I bet there are users of DX11 GPU's that will ask :
"Why I can't use DirectX 12 when it's clearly supported (and points to GPU-z screenshot) ?"

GPU-z isn't showing what it should.
I wanted to point that there is problem and expected someone to do something about it.
I get that it may not be possible to fix right away, and that's OK (I waited almost 5 months already, can wait another few).


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## PerfectWave (Oct 2, 2016)

tbh nvida always lied when talking to DX12 Kappa


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## R-T-B (Oct 2, 2016)

It supports precisely what it says, DirectX 12, Feature Level 11.  This means it provides the basic performance enhancements of DX12 provided by WDDM 2.0.  That's all.  There is no guarantee the entire feature set is working.


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## Frick (Oct 3, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> It supports precisely what it says, DirectX 12, Feature Level 11.  This means it provides the basic performance enhancements of DX12 provided by WDDM 2.0.  That's all.  There is no guarantee the entire feature set is working.



Then that should be in the tooltip.


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## R-T-B (Oct 3, 2016)

Frick said:


> Then that should be in the tooltip.



As a beta tester for GPU-Z, I actually agree and will forward your suggestion.


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## Vayra86 (Oct 3, 2016)

agent_x007 said:


> Maybe ALL NV employees are smart enough to know this [Fermi doesn't support DX12], but I doubt it.
> Either way, I bet there are users of DX11 GPU's that will ask :
> "Why I can't use DirectX 12 when it's clearly supported (and points to GPU-z screenshot) ?"
> 
> ...



Get this into your head: it will not be fixed, because the information that is there is CORRECT.

You just interpret it differently.


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## agent_x007 (Oct 3, 2016)

Vayra86 said:


> Get this into your head: it will not be fixed, because the information that is there is CORRECT.
> 
> You just interpret it differently.


Sorry to interpret it like dxdiag tool do ("DDI Function 11.4") ?
Microsoft's dxdiag tool must be "mad" to say Fermi is not working in DX12 mode (sarcasm).

Here's a thing to know :
Say hello to DirectX 11*.3* - LINK.
It was released along side DirectX 12 in Win 10, and it supports *some* of DX12 features.
^I agree, that those features are supported by Fermi (with current driver), and they are indeed part of DirectX 12.

My problem ?
They are not enough for *actual* DirectX 12 support.
Hence we have Fermi with "DDI 11.4" in dxdiag tool, and Kepler with "DDI 12".


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## Recon-UK (Oct 3, 2016)




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## P4-630 (Oct 3, 2016)




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## R-T-B (Oct 7, 2016)

agent_x007 said:


> Sorry to interpret it like dxdiag tool do ("DDI Function 11.4") ?
> Microsoft's dxdiag tool must be "mad" to say Fermi is not working in DX12 mode (sarcasm).
> 
> Here's a thing to know :
> ...



DDI 12 is DirectX 12 FL 12.0

DirectX 12 itself is simply the driver model (WDDM 2.0), that is the baseline, not the new features like async compute, tiled resources and such

Sorry you don't like that, but that's life.


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## Tatty_One (Oct 7, 2016)

This is going nowhere and is becoming painful, for me at least, I can only go around in circles so many times before I fall over.  Thread closed.


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## W1zzard (Oct 18, 2016)

Fermi DX support has been changed to "11.0" in GPU-Z 1.12.0


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