# Primochill Dye Bomb (FAIL)



## Sasqui (Jan 9, 2013)

In the process of moving my new 3750k to my watercooled case, I decided to strip the loop apart and clean it out.  Last night, I dissasembled my 345 Koolance waterblock to see what it looked like.  And it looked like HELL.  

A few years back, I tried Primochill coolant with a UV "Dye Bomb".  The UV effect lasted for about 3 weeks, so I opened the drain port to look at the fluid.  Found accumulations of what looked like white paste, and about the same consistency as paste.  Cleaned out as much as I could, but didn't clean anything else out, just flushed with distilled water and refilled with distilled water.

Last night, I found greenish gunk all over the pins inside the waterblock.  Took about 30 min with a toothbrush and detergent to take it off.  It kind of looked like this:






Image credit:  http://www.overclock.net/t/638293/gold-dye-bomb

So next step is taking apart my 655 pump and seeing what that looks like inside.  I'm pissed... lesson learned.  I suspect the heat transfer capacity of the radiator is also dimished if the crap accumulated there, but really no chance of cleaning it, unless I can find a solvent.

Anyway, a heads up... stay away from Primochill (or at least the Dye/Paste Bomb)


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## brandonwh64 (Jan 9, 2013)

Distilled water only. I know people like these colors but they are more headache than good.


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## Sinzia (Jan 9, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> Distilled water only. I know people like these colors but they are more headache than good.



Agreed.

Did you have something for algae/bacteria growth? Silver kill coil, PTNuke, etc?


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## Sasqui (Jan 9, 2013)

Sinzia said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Did you have something for algae/bacteria growth? Silver kill coil, PTNuke, etc?



No, the accretions are not biological, as far as I can tell.  They're hard and a bitch to clean off.  The waterblock is chrome plated on the inside, and I think the radiator is aluminum, but it may be copper, hence the green color (?).  The color may be a by-product of the remainder fo the dye bomb.

It's either distilled water or Koolance fluid for me, I've had great experience with both in the past.


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## bmaverick (Jan 9, 2013)

If you want a green color in the coolant, go WCing old school with Propylene "green color" glycol.   The Sierra brand has always been the one of choice.  It's not UV, but the green color will actually keep in the coolant and not your parts.  Also, the stuff will lubricate the Laing pump nicely for years of trouble free operation too.   The corrosion inhibitors will prevent the nasties in the loop as well. 

About 10 to 15% is all it will need.

To clean the parts that have been gunked up, distilled vinegar works great!  Even mix it up to flush through the loop.


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## cadaveca (Jan 9, 2013)

bmaverick said:


> If you want a green color in the coolant, go WCing old school with Propylene "green color" glycol.   The Sierra brand has always been the one of choice.  It's not UV, but the green color will actually keep in the coolant and not your parts.  Also, the stuff will lubricate the Laing pump nicely for years of trouble free operation too.   The corrosion inhibitors will prevent the nasties in the loop as well.
> 
> About 10 to 15% is all it will need.
> 
> To clean the parts that have been gunked up, distilled vinegar works great!  Even mix it up to flush through the loop.



Good tip.  Most AIO coolers use Glycol, have mixed metals, and have no problems, either. I'll NEVER recommend distilled water alone.

I do not agree on the vinegar though, been a few users in the past that has issues after using vinegar.

I prefer Isopropyl to clean, or very weak citric acid.


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## radrok (Jan 9, 2013)

I've always used Primochill Pure clear or the Aquacomputer fluid, never had an issue, most of the times colored coolant just isn't worth it.

Get colored tubing next time man, you don't deserve to deal with this kind of mess, no one does.


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## fullinfusion (Jan 9, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Good tip.  Most AIO coolers use Glycol, have mixed metals, and have no problems, either. I'll NEVER recommend distilled water alone.
> 
> I do not agree on the vinegar though, been a few users in the past that has issues after using vinegar.
> 
> I prefer Isopropyl to clean, or very weak citric acid.


Why not use distilled water Dave? Am I missing out on something here?

Thats all I use and a real 1 gram square of .999 pure silver in the loop and I have no issues at all.

I had my loop apart a week or so ago and from looking inside the rad and fittings there is no build up at all of any sort.


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## radrok (Jan 9, 2013)

fullinfusion said:


> Why not use distilled water Dave? Am I missing out on something here?
> 
> Thats all I use and a real 1 gram square of .999 pure silver in the loop and I have no issues at all.
> 
> I had my loop apart a week or so ago and from looking inside the rad and fittings there is no build up at all of any sort.



Do you have nickel in your loop? If the answer is yes then you shouldn't be using silver, it may cause problems.


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## Sasqui (Jan 9, 2013)

bmaverick said:


> If you want a green color in the coolant, go WCing old school with Propylene "green color" glycol.   The Sierra brand has always been the one of choice.  It's not UV, but the green color will actually keep in the coolant and not your parts.  Also, the stuff will lubricate the Laing pump nicely for years of trouble free operation too.   The corrosion inhibitors will prevent the nasties in the loop as well.
> 
> About 10 to 15% is all it will need.
> 
> To clean the parts that have been gunked up, distilled vinegar works great!  Even mix it up to flush through the loop.



I was even thinking the stuff I use in my boiler at home.  It's also Propylene, but I think also has anti-microbial additives in addition to the anti-corrosives.



radrok said:


> I've always used Primochill Pure clear or the Aquacomputer fluid, never had an issue, most of the times colored coolant just isn't worth it.
> 
> Get colored tubing next time man, you don't deserve to deal with this kind of mess, no one does.



I did the Dye bomb about 4 years ago, the UV effect was pretty cool while it lasted, but could care less about coloring now.  I want functionality.


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## fullinfusion (Jan 9, 2013)

radrok said:


> Do you have nickel in your loop? If the answer is yes then you shouldn't be using silver, it may cause problems.


yup its nickel plated.


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## radrok (Jan 9, 2013)

Sasqui said:


> I did the Dye bomb about 4 years ago, the UV effect was pretty cool while it lasted, but could care less about coloring now. I want functionality.



That may well be a plasticizer leach and old dye mix, could be interesting to get that analyzed.


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## erocker (Jan 9, 2013)

radrok said:


> That may well be a plasticizer leach and old dye mix, could be interesting to get that analyzed.



Agreed. That's what it looks like to me.


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## Sasqui (Jan 9, 2013)

radrok said:


> That may well be a plasticizer leach and old dye mix, could be interesting to get that analyzed.





erocker said:


> Agreed. That's what it looks like to me.



My assumption as well.  The Dye Bomb started coagulating about a month after I added it.  The residue was like a plastic white paste, and *not *water soluble.  So if it is plasticizer, I have no idea what to use for a solvent.

Edit:  My plan is to take the pump apart tonight, so I'll try to post pictures of that when it's opened before cleaning it.


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## radrok (Jan 9, 2013)

Doesn't it come off with a toothbrush?


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## newtekie1 (Jan 9, 2013)

bmaverick said:


> go WCing old school with Propylene "green color" glycol



Ethylene Glycol is traditional green antifreeze, which is what most people use, Propylene Glycol is generally labeled as "Non-Toxic" or RV Antifreeze and is uaually pink.  I use a 10% mix of Propylene Glycol when I run watercooling because it is safe for my animals if I ever spill any.


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## Sasqui (Jan 9, 2013)

radrok said:


> Doesn't it come off with a toothbrush?



It took 30 minutes to clean the pins off the waterblock base, plus detergent and a sore arm!  I think it was the mechanical action more than anything else.

My concern is a layer of the stuff is now in the radiator, acting as an insulator, but it's oversized in heat capacity, so I'm not too worried about it.  The waterblock and pump are the priority I think.

Here's my case not long after adding the original dye, April 2009:


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## Delta6326 (Jan 9, 2013)

It's really to bad no company can come up with a product that can be used with Aluminum, copper and nickel while keeping all bacteria away and be able to be colored .


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## cadaveca (Jan 9, 2013)

fullinfusion said:


> Why not use distilled water Dave? Am I missing out on something here?
> 
> Thats all I use and a real 1 gram square of .999 pure silver in the loop and I have no issues at all.
> 
> I had my loop apart a week or so ago and from looking inside the rad and fittings there is no build up at all of any sort.



It's all about the pH. Distilled water(well, most water), will change pH when exposed to air, absorbing CO2.

pH will also change when the water becomes ionized(which happens from movement).

Then, to start, most distilled water has a pH or 5.5-6.5, which makes it an acid. 


Go ahead, pour that acid in your loop.





Or you can use an additive that'll balance the pH.


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## Steevo (Jan 9, 2013)

Fleetguard CC2825 coolant, its blue, it has everything and is a 50/50 mix. Add 25% more distilled water and a couple drops of antibacterial dish soap as a wetting agent.


Its what I use and after a couple years my blocks were still sparkling clean, my tubes were still fine, and I get insane temperatures, the other night I opened the front door and my 5870 was 6C under full F@H load @ 1.3 volts and 1058Mhz core, and its AFTER my 1100T


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## Sasqui (Jan 9, 2013)

Steevo said:


> Its what I use and after a couple years my blocks were still sparkling clean, my tubes were still fine



Look 3 posts up at the picture I posted.  The tubes now have a white haze (so did the res, but I've cleaned that out too).

Tubes are Tygon, very soft and flexible, can't recall the specific type.


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## Steevo (Jan 9, 2013)

Replace the tubing after you flush it all with radiator flush and hot water for 15 minutes. Or CLR and water run through it.








When its not running it turns back clear blue in a minute. I let the air circulate to let me know its flowing and the pump is working.


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## Sasqui (Jan 9, 2013)

Steevo said:


> with radiator flush



Someone at work suggested that... guess I'll be swinging by an auto parts store or small-mart.


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## MT Alex (Jan 9, 2013)

radrok said:


> Do you have nickel in your loop? If the answer is yes then you shouldn't be using silver, it may cause problems.



No, silver and nickel are galvanic and corrosion compatible, with only a .15 difference on the anodic index.


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## fullinfusion (Jan 9, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> It's all about the pH. Distilled water(well, most water), will change pH when exposed to air, absorbing CO2.
> 
> pH will also change when the water becomes ionized(which happens from movement).
> 
> ...



Funny a dash of baking soda into the loop keeps my water @ 7.0

I've got a high  end reef tank and water is what I gota know about and regularly test or I lose hundreds and hundreds or dollars in coral...

So yeah Ill add acid to my loop 

@ Steevo, I took a single 120mm rad down to the local radiator shop that custom builds radiators/ repairs anything with fins.

was the best $15 bucks I ever spent. The cleaner they use is way better than store bought ones. The rad was just like new when the finished.

Just a thought.


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## radrok (Jan 9, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> No, silver and nickel are galvanic and corrosion compatible, with only a .15 difference on the anodic index.



I honestly don't know if it is about galvanic corrosion or flaking but Koolance themselves told me not to use silver with nickel :|

They don't even give you warranty if you state the use of silver + nickel.


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## MT Alex (Jan 9, 2013)

Probably has to do more with their nickel plating process, think EK, than anything.  I've never used any Koolance products, but always use a kill coil, hell sometimes I put a few ounces of ionic silver solution in the loop, too.


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## fullinfusion (Jan 9, 2013)

Dave it was ah honest question. Why is distilled bad for a loop!

You replied of the PH and said go ahead add acid to your loop right?

I said I add AKA baking soda to combat the acidity of the water and then you call me an asshat? its an additive and know where did I even ask about an additive. 

I didn't think I was being disrespectful at all and If I came across that way I'm sorry.

you feel like talking Id gladly give you my phone number... I never came here to argue, I came here to learn.


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## HammerON (Jan 9, 2013)

Let's try to keep it civil and not resort to name calling. Please


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## ChaoticG8R (Jan 9, 2013)

fullinfusion said:


> I can take a picture of the rez if that helps. I just did a maintence clean of the radiator a week or so ago... added new distilled water wih a drop of PH UP till I got to 7 and thats it.
> 
> I drained the rad into a clean pail and there was nothing in the coolant at all.



I was referring to the OP, which believe it or not, is not you.  You are not the center of this thread, and most comments are not directed to you.

Thanks.


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## fullinfusion (Jan 9, 2013)

ChaoticG8R said:


> I was referring to the OP, which believe it or not, is not you.  You are not the center of this thread, and most comments are not directed to you.
> 
> Thanks.


deleted. I thought you directed towards me...


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## Steevo (Jan 10, 2013)

Dave was saying that distilled water will etch metals due to its Ph, and the fact that water ionizes itself and CO2 will make it acidic in trace amounts........


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydronium


A non-salting buffer is needed, like the additives found in coolant, plus the glycol is a lubricant, the molybdenum compounds that make my coolant blue also coat the copper and other metal surfaces and protect them from oxidation.


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## AsRock (Jan 10, 2013)

bmaverick said:


> If you want a green color in the coolant, go WCing old school with Propylene "green color" glycol.   The Sierra brand has always been the one of choice.  It's not UV, but the green color will actually keep in the coolant and not your parts.  Also, the stuff will lubricate the Laing pump nicely for years of trouble free operation too.   The corrosion inhibitors will prevent the nasties in the loop as well.
> 
> About 10 to 15% is all it will need.
> 
> To clean the parts that have been gunked up, distilled *vinegar* works great!  Even mix it up to flush through the loop.



Would it not help to boil the white vinegar ?,  Like the way you can use to clean limescale from kettles and such and leave it 5-12 hours.

Just curious.


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## radrok (Jan 10, 2013)

Steevo said:


> Dave was saying that distilled water will etch metals due to its Ph, and the fact that water ionizes itself and CO2 will make it acidic in trace amounts........
> 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydronium
> ...



Thank you sir, much appreciated info


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## cdawall (Jan 10, 2013)

newtekie1 said:


> Ethylene Glycol is traditional green antifreeze, which is what most people use, Propylene Glycol is generally labeled as "Non-Toxic" or RV Antifreeze and is uaually pink.  I use a 10% mix of Propylene Glycol when I run watercooling because it is safe for my animals if I ever spill any.



Dexcool is also an ethylene glycol product but is red. Been using that for a while in case anyone wonders lain specs all of its pumps to run glycol mixes.


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## OneMoar (Jan 10, 2013)

I used to use Miralax/and a 1/2TSP of baking soda in my distilled water  back in 2008 never had a issue used to check it with a ph strip once a month iirc it hovered around 7.3
as for cleaning the crap out ACETONE(nail-polish remover will work )


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## Krazy Owl (Jan 10, 2013)

Fuck the detergent just use car brakes cleaner. It spray the shit out of it. Kill bacterias and remove everything at same time.


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## OneMoar (Jan 10, 2013)

Krazy Owl said:


> Fuck the detergent just use car brakes cleaner. It spray the shit out of it. Kill bacterias and remove everything at same time.



also murders plastic and rubber ... and silicone


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## Sasqui (Jan 10, 2013)

*PICS - the not so good, the bad and the ugly*

*Here's an overview of the pump and rad in the case.  Notice green deposits in the bottom of the resevoir:*







*Look at the pump barbs - a better look at the crap I'm trying to deal with:*






*Inside of the pump (the ugly).  I suspect pump capacity is diminished a little, the film is thin on the impeller, but would cause friction on the moving water boundary layer none the less:*


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## brandonwh64 (Jan 10, 2013)

OneMoar said:


> also murders plastic and rubber ... and silicone



Thats what I said too! Most of these types of cleaners use acetone and other solvents which will kill plastics and oily based products.



> Acetone
> Acetone is a solvent also used as fingernail polish remover.
> 
> Butane
> ...


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## Norton (Jan 10, 2013)

Here's a few tips (from my water treatment background):

Low pH (acid) flushing- removes mineral deposits. Acidic solutions will draw up the mineral deposits into the liquid solution (caution- can also dissolve the plating/metal parts in the loop)

High pH (base/caustic) flushing- removes organic deposits- same caution as above)

Detergent flushing- contains surfactants and polymers/copolymers can lift deposits from the loop 

The milder the solution the better- some of these compounds are very strong... pay attention to recommended dilutions, etc....

*** EDIT- Quick test- if the deposits are on the tubing:
- cut 3 small lengths of tubing
- soak one in diluted vinegar solution, one in a diluted bleach solution, and one in diluted detergent (Tide or Palmolive)
- the one that works best is the one that you use


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## OneMoar (Jan 10, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> Thats what I said too! Most of these types of cleaners use acetone and other solvents which will kill plastics and oily based products.



acetone is ok so long as its a low strength such as nailpolish remover
I just acetone nail-polish remover to remove thermal paste even on bare pcb it evaporates so fast that it never causes any real harm
that rest of that list :EKK: ...
the only way to kill a toon .. 
acetone benzine turpentine 
Judge Doom Dips a Shoe - YouTube


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## Sasqui (Jan 10, 2013)

Norton said:


> Low pH (acid) flushing- removes mineral deposits. Acidic solutions will draw up the mineral deposits into the liquid solution (caution- can also dissolve the plating/metal parts in the loop)



I was looking at CLR (Calcium Lime Rust remover), the label states not to use on Copper/Aluminum or Galvanized surfaces.  I was also looking at Prestone radiator flush, which has a slightly acidic compound in it.

The biggest concern right now is the radiator.  If it's got that same scale in it, the heat transfer must be diminished.  I'm assuming it's made of aluminum?


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## OneMoar (Jan 10, 2013)

Sasqui said:


> I was looking at CLR (Calcium Lime Rust remover), the label states not to use on Copper/Aluminum or Galvanized surfaces.  I was also looking at Prestone radiator flush, which has a slightly acidic compound in it.
> 
> The biggest concern right now is the radiator.  If it's got that same scale in it, the heat transfer must be diminished.  I'm assuming it's made of aluminum?



clr/rad flush will destroy the following
1. pump
2.the tubing
3. the block
4. the rad 
flush it with the following  a mix of 1/2 cup Rubbing alcohol and 1/4 cup of acetone(nailpolish remover) and 1 cup of HOT water and if that doesn't work run strait nailpolish remover though it for about a 1m and then quickly flush with water please don't use non-organic solvents it will wreak your shit


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## cadaveca (Jan 10, 2013)

Sasqui said:


> I was looking at CLR (Calcium Lime Rust remover), the label states not to use on Copper/Aluminum or Galvanized surfaces.  I was also looking at Prestone radiator flush, which has a slightly acidic compound in it.
> 
> The biggest concern right now is the radiator.  If it's got that same scale in it, the heat transfer must be diminished.  I'm assuming it's made of aluminum?



In the past, there's been guys confronted with this problem who ran vinegar through their rad to remove it, and it worked, however, a few found that if left too long, it'll eat away at the solder in the rad, and affecting the integrity of the rad.

I cannot remember how long that was, but I do remember that it was shortly after that things like running a filter in the loop to catch this stuff before commissioning the rig started to be far more common.

So, anyway, any time you set up a new loop, this is going to happen, and now that this stuff is coating your entire loop, it will continue to be a problem until is completely removed. Hence a filter on setup.

Personally, I'd be buying a whole new loop, installing a filter, and running it for a month or two until all the chemicals are leached out of the tubing. Then, I'd be running distilled that would be pH balanced, or treated to deal with that potential issue.

Then I'd be carefully taking apart all the blocks and such, cleaning, and then selling.

This is why I don't run anything other than AIO water coolers. If you follow popular opinion, things like this are ALWAYS a problem, and everyone's got different way to deal with it, since there truly is not real way to prevent it. Moving water creates ions, even more so since we add heat to it, and you can't just move electrons from one place to the next without them affecting everything along the way.


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## OneMoar (Jan 10, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> In the past, there's been guys confronted with this problem who ran vinegar through their rad to remove it, and it worked, however, a few found that if left too long, it'll eat away at the solder in the rad, and affecting the integrity of the rad.
> 
> I cannot remember how long that was, but I do remember that it was shortly after that things like running a filter in the loop to catch this stuff before commissioning the rig started to be far more common.
> 
> ...


 its not a problem its just a nature of water cooling people that dump shit in there loops are the ones that have the most issues
if you wanna test for electrolysis heres how 
attach the - of your test meter to the ground on the psu either 5v or 3v put the + side in to the coolant but don't touch anything else if you have any voltage there then you have a grounding issue in the system and need to either ground the coolant or rad to a negative return on the psu you should ground ANY system even if you don't have problem to give the free ions someplace to go


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## cdawall (Jan 10, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> This is why I don't run anything other than AIO water coolers. If you follow popular opinion, things like this are ALWAYS a problem, and everyone's got different way to deal with it, since there truly is not real way to prevent it. Moving water creates ions, even more so since we add heat to it, and you can't just move electrons from one place to the next without them affecting everything along the way.



If you ignore popular opinion and run a mix of vehicle antifreeze similar to what is found in an AIO cooler most of those problems are gone. Having run the loop in my RF case for upwards of 2 years without even looking at the water beyond what could be seen in the res which was still clean and full. That is something I have never heard of or seen a distilled water setup do. When the loop was torn down there was minor build up on the tubing, but the block was clean as were the radiators and pumps. The dye from the coolant did not dye any parts like is common with PC coolants and the liquid itself was completely reusable. 

To this day 25% coolant mixed with filtered water is all I have ever run without issue. I have PT nuke and have tried silver coils always led to a short service interval. Not worth it IMO. Cleaning blocks and pumps sucks I will stick to the long life coolants such as dexcool.


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## Sasqui (Jan 10, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Personally, I'd be buying a whole new loop, installing a filter, and running it for a month or two until all the chemicals are leached out of the tubing. Then, I'd be running distilled that would be pH balanced, or treated to deal with that potential issue.



The hell with it.  Even though the cooling capacity of the rad may be dimished, the block is clean, the pump works and I'll just run it the way it is.

Perhaps next year, I'll dive into a new case and replace everything.  I have a spare non-vario version of the 655 pump, and I run the vario at full speed 24/7 anyway so that's taken care of, just need tubing, fittings, radiator and an upgraded block.


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## cadaveca (Jan 10, 2013)

You could try the filter idea, under the premise that if that stuff got deposited by the water, it'll also be removed, and with the right filter, you'd be able to remove and clean it all, just by running the loop.

What should happen, is that whatever is in the rad or whatever else isn't cleaned, will then get spread out elsewhere again, just thinner than it is now.


And yeah, myself, I'd not worry about it. But if you truly want to deal with it "properly" a lot of work is at hand.


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## Sasqui (Jan 10, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> You could try the filter idea, under the premise that if that stuff got deposited by the water, it'll also be removed, and with the right filter, you'd be able to remove and clean it all, just by running the loop.
> 
> What should happen, is that whatever is in the rad or whatever else isn't cleaned, will then get spread out elsewhere again, just thinner than it is now.
> 
> ...



I'm still pissed at Primochill, what a POS product.  3 or 4 years ago, I knew it was shit but never imagined it'd cause such a mess this far down the line.

Once I get my 3570K under the block, I'll report my findings


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## newtekie1 (Jan 10, 2013)

cdawall said:


> Dexcool is also an ethylene glycol product but is red. Been using that for a while in case anyone wonders lain specs all of its pumps to run glycol mixes.



I know, I have a GM car, I was just stating the traditional colors.  Ethylene Glycol is traditionally green and Propylene glycol is traditionally pink.


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## Jstn7477 (Jan 10, 2013)

Are the traditional colors even still sold anymore? I've done lots of vehicle maintenance recently and all I see at wallyworld nowadays are the yellow universal coolant and the usual orange Dexcool.


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## Krazy Owl (Jan 10, 2013)

Wal mart brings the old green one at least in Quebec.


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## Krazy Owl (Jan 10, 2013)

OneMoar said:


> also murders plastic and rubber ... and silicone



No you take the one without chlorine. safe for abs modules.


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## cdawall (Jan 11, 2013)

newtekie1 said:


> I know, I have a GM car, I was just stating the traditional colors.  Ethylene Glycol is traditionally green and Propylene glycol is traditionally pink.



Very few places cary traditional green anymore most people are using universal yellow which is still ethylene glycol as well, but carries some of the same additives Dexcool would carry.



Jstn7477 said:


> Are the traditional colors even still sold anymore? I've done lots of vehicle maintenance recently and all I see at wallyworld nowadays are the yellow universal coolant and the usual orange Dexcool.



Yes at parts stores they do.


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## Krazy Owl (Jan 11, 2013)

Don't mix both it makes sludge that do shit to your cooling system with time. Trust me i'm a car engineer! In other words...i'm a really good mechanic who make miracles with people shitty cars


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## cdawall (Jan 11, 2013)

Krazy Owl said:


> Don't mix both it makes sludge that do shit to your cooling system with time. Trust me i'm a car engineer! In other words...i'm a really good mechanic who make miracles with people shitty cars



No adding the yellow to a red or green system will do nothing the issue comes with adding green to red or red to green. Dexcool and normal coolant turn solid over time and will mess a car up.


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## OneMoar (Jan 11, 2013)

yellow is still Ethylene glycol based red/pink/orange is dexcool dexcool isn't bad on its own but if you go mixing shit with it expect to be changing a water pump and or headgasket in under 20k


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## cdawall (Jan 11, 2013)

OneMoar said:


> yellow is still Ethylene glycol based red/pink/orange is dexcool dexcool isn't bad on its own but if you go mixing shit with it expect to be changing a water pump and or headgasket in under 20k



Dexcool is still ethylene glycool. Pink is propylene glycol ie non toxic. The additives of Dexcool are what cause gelling and solidification when mixed with normal green goop not to mention some of the older cars the additives will eat the seals.


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## Sasqui (Jan 11, 2013)

cdawall said:


> The additives of Dexcool are what cause gelling and solidification when mixed with normal green goop not to mention some of the older cars the additives will eat the seals.



That's what I read on wiki, but it's sketchy:



> Organic acid technologyCertain cars are built with organic acid technology (OAT) antifreeze (e.g., DEX-COOL[18]), or with a hybrid organic acid technology (HOAT) formulation (e.g., Zerex G-05[19]), both of which are claimed to have an extended service life of five years or 240,000 km (150,000 mi).
> 
> DEX-COOL specifically has caused controversy. Litigation has linked it with intake manifold gasket failures in General Motors' (GM's) 3.1L and 3.4L engines, and with other failures in 3.8L and 4.3L engines. One of the anti-corrosion components presented as Sodium or Potassium_2-ethylhexanoate and Ethylhexanoic_acid is incompatible with Nylon_6,6 and Silicone_rubber, and is known as Plasticizer. Class action lawsuits were registered in several states, and in Canada, to address some of these claims. The first of these to reach a decision was in Missouri where a settlement was announced early in December 2007.[20] Late in March 2008, GM agreed to compensate complainants in the remaining 49 states.[21] GM (Motors Liquidation Company) filed for bankruptcy in 2009, which tied up the outstanding claims until a court determines who gets paid.[22]
> 
> ...



... update on OP:  Loop seems to be getting better with second flush, vortex in the resevoir is a lot more pronounced, some floaties circulating from the scrubbing I did (I think).  I think I'll flush it one or two more times before popping the motherboard in.


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## Krazy Owl (Jan 11, 2013)

This is what i've meant. The mix of green and pink will give shit. The yellow one i never seen it around here even if I make car mechanic for 18 years now.


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