# I need a CPU and just don't know



## mytiggertiger (Jan 6, 2007)

Hello to all.
I'm building my first computer and I'm now looking for my CPU.

If anyone can give any input on which one to get, I would greatly appreciate it.

Here's what I have so far:
Western Digital Caviar SE16, 250GB HD
Evga GeForce 7600GT GPU (I'm a very light gamer and can always add a second card later)
Evga nForce 680i (LG775) Motherboard
Xion RealPower 600W PS
Logitech G15 keyboard
Logitech G5 Mouse

I don't want the Intel Core 2 Duo Extreme, but am leaning towards Intel's Pentium side of the family (mainly due to pricing.)

I have been told by many to get the "Retail Kit"...is this correct?

Oh yea, any input on what I have so far is welcome also, as I don't want a worthless system, but I don't plan on overclocking either...not yet anyways.

Thanks in advance for you advice.


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## ghost101 (Jan 6, 2007)

Is the amd 64 x2 3800+ too expensive? Because itll smoke all the pentium Ds youre considering getting.

I mean, youre getting such an epensive motherboard and then saying you want a cheap processor? Doesnt make sense to me.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Jan 6, 2007)

Ok, that mb is a little much.  Go for a lower end one.  With that gfx card, an e6300 would do well.  Also, AMD would be better AM2,  agree with ghost above, and a biostar tforce 550 for you mobo.


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 6, 2007)

*Need CPU update*

Wow, you work fast.  I didn't think I would see any replies so quick (I'm a newbie to forums too.)

Actually, the products I listed I have already purchased.  Were they bad choices?


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## ghost101 (Jan 6, 2007)

No not bad choices as such, the 680i motherboard may have been surplus to you needs. Its just how much money do you have left?


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 6, 2007)

Well, I'm not too worried about the money, though I don't want to spend the $800 plus for the Quad Core 2 Duo extreme and besides, I don't think I need it.

I got really good deals on everything (after the rebates.)

Need advice on Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Visio, Adobe, etc..., I'm there.  Ask me how and why my computer runs and I will say "I plug it in, push the power button and enter my password."

My desk is covered in sticky notes from weeks of on-line research to do my first build, but there are just so many choices, my brain is fried.


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## ghost101 (Jan 6, 2007)

E6300 or the E6400 with an aftermarket cooler id say. You should get some decent 800mhz RAM as well.


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 6, 2007)

I've seen the E6600 mentioned alot...is that too much as well?


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 6, 2007)

The 6600 is a sweet sweet cpu. It's the first in the series with 4mb cache. So it's the cheapest core2duo you can get that has 4mb cache and it'll overclock VERY well. People are getting it to 3.4 easy on air. Water cooled you can hit 3.5ghz+ Stock (2.4ghz) it'll beat a 4800+ then overclock it to 3.5??  Overclocked it even beats it's brother the 6800 and you save alot. The 6600 is $300+/- right now. AMD has some catching up to do. Read the Newegg reviews for the 6600 and see all the AMD converts. lol


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## tkpenalty (Jan 6, 2007)

lol... e6300 after light overclocking smokes each and every AMD .


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 6, 2007)

AMD has a GPU? It's still ATI   I'm really suprised it was AMD to aquire ATI since most of the AMD friends I have are also Nvidia fans. God I hope Intel doesn't but Nvidia


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## Namslas90 (Jan 6, 2007)

Nice choice on the G15/G 5 combo.  Athlon X2 might have a 939 Mobo and a X2, cheap!!PM him.


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## ktr (Jan 6, 2007)

CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115005

cache is not everything, you can archive a higher performance from increasing the clock speed then having more cache.

GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150202

forget the 7600gt! two 7600 = one 7900  ...two 7600 = $250 & one 7900 = $160 ... the math makes sense. 

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813136168

i hear some good stuff about this one...

hdd: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148144

PR ftw!


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 6, 2007)

Cache is quite important or we'd all have had soc370 celerons and not p3s. Threads are getting bigger and leo is getting larrrrger.


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## ktr (Jan 6, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> Cache is quite important or we'd all have had soc370 celerons and not p3s. Threads are getting bigger and leo is getting larrrrger.



http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/07/14/intel_core_2_duo_processors/5.html

is it justifiable to spend double for 6-9 % difference? by where this can also be regained by bumping the mhz up 200... I think not...


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## Wile E (Jan 6, 2007)

ktr said:


> CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115005
> 
> cache is not everything, you can archive a higher performance from increasing the clock speed then having more cache.
> 
> ...


He already bought the stuff he mentioned in his first post.






@Tiggertiger - If you plan to overclock, you can save some cash by going with an E6300 or E6400. They overclock like crazy. If you don't want to overclock, I say get the E6600. It's a good processor. You would be wise to avoid Pentium, they are very hot and they underperform compared to almost any other processor on the market. Core2Duo is absolutely the way to go. Couple that with a good 2x1GB DDR2 800Mhz ram kit with a CAS of 4, and you will have a very quick machine, that should last you a good while.


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## ktr (Jan 6, 2007)

Wile E said:


> He already bought the stuff he mentioned in his first post.



whoops...heheh...miss understanding.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 6, 2007)

ktr said:


> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/07/14/intel_core_2_duo_processors/5.html
> 
> is it justifiable to spend double for 6-9 % difference? by where this can also be regained by bumping the mhz up 200... I think not...



How did they get the 6600 down to 2.13? If they dropped the bus speed that will slow down the cpu internally (cache speeds) and also the system memory. If they declocked it with the multiplier alone it's would be fair. It's only $90 more for the 6600 ($279.00) vs. the 6400 ($189.00) for the extra 2mb cache and the overclockability of the 6600 able to reach 3.4 on air?? I'm going 6600.


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## ktr (Jan 6, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> How did they get the 6600 down to 2.13? If they dropped the bus speed that will slow down the cpu internally (cache speeds) and also the system memory. If they declocked it with the multiplier alone it's would be fair. It's only $90 more for the 6600 ($279.00) vs. the 6400 ($189.00) for the extra 2mb cache and the overclockability of the 6600 able to reach 3.4 on air?? I'm going 6600.



they down the multi on the extreme to 2.13.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 6, 2007)

Wile E said:


> If you don't want to overclock, I say get the E6600.



The 6600 is an incredible overclocker.

"To provide some idea of overclocking abilities with other Core 2 Duo processors, we ran quick tests with E6700 (2.67GHz), and E6600 (2.4GHz).  The test E6700 reached a stable 3.4GHz at default voltage and topped out at 3.9GHz with the Tuniq Cooler.  The 2.4GHz E6600 turned out to be quite an overclocker in our tests.  Even though it was hard-locked at a 9 multiplier it reached an amazing 4GHz in the overclocking tests.  That represents a 67% overclock."

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=18


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## tkpenalty (Jan 6, 2007)

Lol... with stock cooling you can get a crazy OCing e6300... with a Zalman... Much Much more.

This is probably the first time where stock cooling is actually good. Actually I know the reason why the e6300 OCs so good. The CPU cooler was meant to keep the Pentium D's cool, but now you have something which uses half the wattage... think of it. You now have this OCing gap. Its wiser to buy either the 6300 or 6600 Overall.

OFF TOPIC: Intel stock coolers these days at least have a considerable amount of style. If Zalmans were the norm, they would be shunned for lack of style. I like the new intel stock coolers. The old ones looked ugly






Old (well looks better than some of the aftermarket coolers which do much worse)






Quad on the left, dual core & Pentium D on the right. 






First time ive ever seen an intel fan WITHOUT the intel label. They are becoming more of an AMD now...


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 6, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Lol... with stock cooling you can get a crazy OCing e6300... with a Zalman... Much Much more.
> 
> This is probably the first time where stock cooling is actually good. Actually I know the reason why the e6300 OCs so good. The CPU cooler was meant to keep the Pentium D's cool, but now you have something which uses half the wattage... think of it. You now have this OCing gap. Its wiser to buy either the 6300 or 6600 Overall.
> 
> OFF TOPIC: Intel stock coolers these days at least have a considerable amount of style. If Zalmans were the norm, they would be shunned for lack of style. I like the new intel stock coolers. The old ones looked ugly



I'll agree with you there. Trying to keep my 550 prescott cool at 4ghz with the stock fan wasn't comming along too well. It'll run 4ghz all day long at 59c full load with this big typhoon but it's an ugly hsf and I think the lenght of the pipes is hurting it. It can't soak thru them quickly enough.


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## tkpenalty (Jan 6, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> I'll agree with you there. Trying to keep my 550 prescott cool at 4ghz with the stock fan wasn't comming along too well. It'll run 4ghz all day long at 59c full load with this big typhoon but it's an ugly hsf and I think the lenght of the pipes is hurting it. It can't soak thru them quickly enough.



Some companies are tasteless...


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## Pinchy (Jan 6, 2007)

You gotta remember, every different chip is different, and they will OC different. Look at tigger69, he got an E6300 up to 3.9GHz  (103% OC !)

Ive managed to get the e6400 up to 3.2Ghz (on air) with ease; not even messing with the voltage.


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 6, 2007)

I just went to New Egg and am wondering why the
E6400 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115004
is more than the E6600 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115005?
Isn't the 6600 a better CPU?

I don't plan on doing a lot of OC, I just want an above average PC.

I still need to get my case and memory....any thoughts on the case? I don't want anything extreme, but I don't want a plain box either.

P.S. How do you insert the hyperlinks?


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## Pinchy (Jan 6, 2007)

huh?

The e6600 is more expensive ($318 as opposed to e6400 @ $222)


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 6, 2007)

oh, my bad, I was looking at the E6300, not the E6600.
I still can't decide, but looks like I'm now leaning towards E6400, just because I plan to do only minimal OCing.

Case thoughts anyone?  I'm looking to spend between $40 & $75.  I'd rather save the monies for the CPU and memory and I don't need a PS in the case cuz I have one.


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## Mediocre (Jan 6, 2007)

E6600 all the way!! The cache makes a HUGE difference because it SHARED between the cores.

Its funny though, got my E6600 on newegg for $305 a few months ago. 
E6600 superpi ~14s
E6400 clocked to hell (3.5-4.0) ~ 14.8s

I would rather not have to worry about a massive oc (and the $$ for parts). Just spend the  $$ on a E6600 you won't regret it


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## Pinchy (Jan 6, 2007)

lol, i dnt think she should get an E6600 mainly cus she isnt going to take advantage of the extra cache. Not much of a gamer, and i doubt she is gonna spend the extra for a faster time in Super Pi 

IMHO, E6400 is the best bang for its buck


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## Mediocre (Jan 6, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> lol, i dnt think he should get an E6600 mainly cus he isnt going to take advantage of the extra cache. Not much of a gamer, and i doubt he is gonna spend the extra for a faster time in Super Pi
> 
> IMHO, E6400 is the best bang for its buck



superpi time is just way to compare raw processing power. 
Gonna edit a movie?
Wanna burn a dvd, do a virus scan, and do something else at the same time?

Its only + ~$90 and at STOCK speeds its incredibly faster. Next step up is like $300... go with the best mid-range.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 6, 2007)

Cache Cache Cache!  6600 to avoid slapping yourself for not getting it in a year from now if you don't. If your just going to build cheap might as well get a P4 D


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 6, 2007)

Ok, E6400 vs E6600?????
 If I get the 64, I will have more money for more memory, if I get the 6600, I will have to go with less memory (all about pricing.)
Which is better an ok processor with loads of memory or a better processor with less memory?

P.S. The "he" reference should be "she"


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Jan 6, 2007)

6400, then you can do a MINOR oc.  Memory is important.


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 6, 2007)

Thanks everyone for your input.....

Remember, very little OCing, if any; but the ability to have many, many programs running at once without getting that stupid "Your program has to close due to low virtual memory" or something like that.

Some CD/DVD burning, but just average, nothing over the top.  Movie editing maybe, haven't done it yet, but may.

I run lots of software like Quickbooks & Adobe Photoshop, but also I can remote connect to my work system from home, so that's another consideration.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Jan 6, 2007)

the e6400 will be more than enough.  Paired with you 7600gt, I would even consider AM2.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Jan 6, 2007)

Ok, on the egg, (check out hot deals section for linky) there is a 7900gs (muy better than the 7600gt)  for $5 more...


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 6, 2007)

Personally when I spend $1000+ on a PC I carefully choose my components bassed on performance and price. At this moment in time the bast bang for the buck is the 6600.

6300 $193
6400 $222 ($29 difference) Gain of 270mhz 
6600 $318 ($125 difference) Gain of 2x Cache and 310mhz
6700 $510 ($317 difference) Gain of 2x Cache and 530mhz

Is it worth $96 for the extra Cache? (125-29) In my opinion it is. Is it worth $288? hell no. I like to buy slower versions of flagship CPUs as long as there not stripped of something. I can't say as much for my x1950 pro with less shaders. I couldn't afford the x1950xtx but if the difference in price was minimal I would have bought the XTX but it was over 2.5x the cost of a Pro. I'm just using that example. There's a spot in the price curve where it begins to spike in a non-linear ramp. The 6600 is at the low end of the curve, the 6700 is at the top.


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 6, 2007)

But do I need the extra cashe for what I will be doing?

I heard an ok CPU can run better with loads of memory.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 6, 2007)

Windows=multitasking opperating system=multithreadded=benifits from cache. Don't think of multitasking as running two applications. Sitting at an empty XP desktop your still multitasking as there is 30 some processes running in the background. I'm speaking from personal experience and my own personal testing. Cache makes a huge difference. Cache is the buffer between the processor core and the system memory. It job is to have code ready for the core to execute. Less cache, less code. Now add a 64bit opperating system like XP64 or Vista and now you have "larger" threads and the cache becomes very important. The link that KTR sent you was a bunch of benchmarks using 32bit applications. Although 64bit apps arn't mainstream now you will see them in the next 3-6 monthes with the release of Vista. Do you want to have to upgrade again just because your missing 2mb of cache is killing your performance gains for a 64bit OS? All to save $80-90? Read more reviews. I'm buying the 6600 because it's the cheapest CPU to offer the most cache.

"The CPU must deliver its data at a very high speed. The regular RAM cannot keep up with that speed. Therefore, a special RAM type called cache is used as a buffer - temporary storage. To get top performance from the CPU, the number of outgoing transactions must be minimized. The more data transmissions, which can be contained inside the CPU, the better the performance."

facts are facts. can't argue physics.


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## ghost101 (Jan 6, 2007)

Except even Vista wont make 64bit mainstream. Its quite a long way off. At the very least until Vista's successor comes along.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 6, 2007)

I said that when AMD put out there 64bit CPU. I think Microsoft will have quite an influence with Vista compaired to AMDs influence with a 64bit chip. Think about it. AMDs are all 64bit now, Intels Core2duo's are 64bit. The opperating system is now 64bit. The supporting software is on it's way!


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## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

mytiggertiger said:


> But do I need the extra cashe for what I will be doing?
> 
> I heard an ok CPU can run better with loads of memory.



As i said, i reckon for the tasks you are doing, you should get the e6400 and the better RAM.

the $90 can be the difference between 1 and 2GB of RAM. For photoshop and proggies like that, 2GB of PC6400 and an E6400 will totally own an E6600 with 1GB of PC6400 or 1.5GB of PC5300

@mytiggertiger: Check out this link on diff b/w the cores

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=e6600&page=1

Remember, she isnt gonna OC, so dis-regard all overclocked results


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Remember, he isnt gonna OC, so dis-regard all overclocked results



Maybe he should. Free power just waiting in any of them.


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## tkpenalty (Jan 7, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> As i said, i reckon for the tasks you are doing, you should get the e6400 and the better RAM.
> 
> the $90 can be the difference between 1 and 2GB of RAM. For photoshop and proggies like that, 2GB of PC6400 and an E6400 will totally own an E6600 with 1GB of PC6400 or 1.5GB of PC5300
> 
> ...



Not everyone lives in Australia pinch.
Why the E6400?


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## Wile E (Jan 7, 2007)

Just get the 6400 and a good 2x1GB CAS4 DDR2-800 memory kit. It will only take a minimal overclock to crush a Core2Extreme(but it's plenty powerful in stock trim), and you'll walk away with the extra ram. If you have any extra money after those 2 items, buy a better aftermarket CPU cooler.


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## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Not everyone lives in Australia pinch.
> Why the E6400?



lol why not?

For the tasks she is doin, any C2D is perfect, but E6400 over E6300 cus for the price (altho e6300 would b fine as well), but she may as well get the extra 300Mhz (im taking into account she aint gonna oc at all) I dont think its worth all the extra just for the 2mb of cache for the tasks she is doin...remember, its only my opinion  

And i know not everyone lives in AUS  lmao...but $90USD can make a diff b/w 1 and 2GB of RAM, which would help what she is doing heaps more than 300Mhz and the extra cache...


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 7, 2007)

FYI: "he" is actually a "she" 

I don't game (well maybe a little schockwave or Pogo) and my kids have their own computers..they game, World of Warcraft, Age of Empires, etc...

I just wanted a better system then my 4 year old Dell Dimension 4500.

Again, I do appreciate all of the feedback.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

Soon I will be selling my Abit AA8, P4 550 (3.4@3.8), 1gb ddr-2 4200. It will be posted in the forsale section eventually if I don't sell it locally.


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## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

mytiggertiger said:


> FYI: "he" is actually a "she"



lmao sorry 

*changes posts*



mytiggertiger said:


> I don't game (well maybe a little schockwave or Pogo) and my kids have their own computers..they game, World of Warcraft, Age of Empires, etc...
> 
> I just wanted a better system then my 4 year old Dell Dimension 4500.



Yeah, any conroe would do HEAPS better than that ...just up to you i guess...E6600 will be faster, but its whether you reckon its worth the extra money.

Even the E6300 would do nicely, but the E6400 is only $20 more...


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 7, 2007)

No worries  

Everyone was so wonderful with the CPU assistance, how about a case to put all this stuff in???????
Western Digital Caviar SE16, 250GB HD
Evga GeForce 7600GT GPU
Evga nForce 680i (LG775) Motherboard
Xion RealPower 600W PS

Nothing fancy, but a little better than a plain old black boring blagh (I have that with my Dell.)  

Looking to spend no more than $60US, unless there's just no a decent case at this price.  SOOOOOOO many too choose from


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## Grings (Jan 7, 2007)

I would recommend the 6600, but if its 2gig and a 6400 or 1gig and a 6600, they yeah definately go for the 6400 with 2gig, 1gig will hold you back way more than having a smaller cache.

I had an a64 3500 and a 3700 (same speed, double cache) and there was no noticable difference, but this is completely different architecture

Pentium D's are a bit quicker with more cache, but this is due to their very long processing pipeline, wheras the core2duo's is shorter, like the amd's


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

http://www.directron.com/blackcases.html  They have some good deals on cases. Keep in mind the powersupplies that come with a case are generally not very strong/reliable.

http://www.directron.com/titanc291425m1.html  $29


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## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

she has a PSU


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

Well hell. not a bad looking case for $29 don't u think? Has a touch of basic elegance. I just like there selection and pictures inside and out. WOW I just realised it comes with a "430w" powersupply.


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 7, 2007)

I think I'm gonna go with the E6400 with 2GB of memory....then add more memory later.

I'll be sure to post my final product (pics included) once I'm done.

If all goes well after installing the OS and Windows XP Pro, I'm gonna build another for my husband


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

mytiggertiger said:


> I think I'm gonna go with the E6400 with 2GB of memory....then add more memory later.
> 
> I'll be sure to post my final product (pics included) once I'm done.
> 
> If all goes well after installing the OS and Windows XP Pro, I'm gonna build another for my husband



For what your doing you probably won't even fill 1gb. I'm only running with 1gb at the moment. I was running 2gb but I switched out modules for diagnosing another problem. I don't notice any difference even playing quake4 or FEAR. IMO you'd *notice* more performance out of the 6600 vs. 6400+1gb more memory. Adding ram doesn't make any noticable difference untill your actually maxing out what you have. If you had 1gb and XP took 20 seconds to load and you installed 4gb, it would still take 20sec to load. If your editing entire movies loaded into memory you'd notice but most video editors don't work like that. They work with the file off the hdd.


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## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

but using graphic intensive programs, like photoshop, will need a lot of RAM


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## WarEagleAU (Jan 7, 2007)

Alright, mytiggertiger. First, welcome to the forums and I think you are either the first, or the second female we have on these forums. Second, as for the processor, seeing as you got a motherboard that supports the C2D, go with the 6400. I would have said the 6300 but pinchy makes a point when he says its like only 20 bucks for for 300 mhz. Seeing as you might oc by, say 3% from what you posted, the E6400 would be your best bet. Now, as far as cases go, I have tons of Ideas. Ill use newegg for the links, because well, they are the best (I use a few other places, except tigerdirect, their mail in rebate program is horrendous.)

1

2

3

4


5

6 (cheaper tsunami then the black one listed first)

7 (My case I have, love it, would get it again, excellent thermals, and no side windows. Beautiful all aluminum finish to help disipate heat)

8

Yeah, I know I listed the  Thermaltake (Tt) Tsunami first, love the case and its finally affordable. Im trying to keep case prices within reason, hence the Antec Sonata II Piano Black. Its quiet, beautiful and comes with a smart power 2.0 450W PSU. I know you have one but you can never have too many good psu's.
 Mind you, some of these are considered gaming cases, but these cases afford you plenty of room and airflow. Also, more room and storage options and assortment of other options which I assume will come in handy for a mother . Hope this helps you out.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> but using graphic intensive programs, like photoshop, will need a lot of RAM



Photoshop is very cpu intensive when using effects on photos. It is a hog yes but I can't even imagine it using up a gig unless you have like 50 layers.


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## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> Photoshop is very cpu intensive when using effects on photos. It is a hog yes but I can't even imagine it using up a gig unless you have like 50 layers.



True, but think of the future, and later releases of it...a core 2 duo will hold it off, even if you need a lil oc, but i reckon 1GB of RAM will be starting to get a lil old.

Then again, u can always upgrade RAM without replacing...as opposed to the processor...but still, i dont think the e6600 is worth all the extra money


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

Photoshop 7 is using a meer 38mb. (only version I had) I installed it just to see what the application itself was actually using.


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## Grings (Jan 7, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> For what your doing you probably won't even fill 1gb. I'm only running with 1gb at the moment. I was running 2gb but I switched out modules for diagnosing another problem. I don't notice any difference even playing quake4 or FEAR. IMO you'd *notice* more performance out of the 6600 vs. 6400+1gb more memory. Adding ram doesn't make any noticable difference untill your actually maxing out what you have. If you had 1gb and XP took 20 seconds to load and you installed 4gb, it would still take 20sec to load. If your editing entire movies loaded into memory you'd notice but most video editors don't work like that. They work with the file off the hdd.



i noticed a huge difference in quake4, fear, bf2 &2142,coh, oblivion in fact just about every game i play upgrading to 2gig

i am using ddr not ddr2 though, but its becoming more and more common for games to  make use of 2gig compared to a year ago


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## hat (Jan 7, 2007)

Will this work in his machine?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819116230


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

How many processes/viruses/adwars you have running there Grings? lol


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 7, 2007)

I use the Photoshop for touch-ups of other peoples work (for co-workers or school.)  I don't create, not yet anyways.  I do love Adobe Acrobat (not reader), but refuse to upgrade from the 5.0 version, as I feel the newer version is not user friendly. Love converting files and batching, and extracting, and soooo much more.

Heck, my old piece of (u know what) only has  256 DDR memory w/ a P4 1.8GHz and I can work in any Adobe app...I just can't have anything else open or can't open anything else.  It does run like my grandma, but it runs.


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## Grings (Jan 7, 2007)

16/none/none (when gaming)

what quality settings are YOU running at?


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

XP doesn't run smoothly by itself with <512mb. 1gb is more then enough for photo editing. As much as I love spending other peoples money it's in all honesty I recomend the 6600/1gb over the 6400/2gb.

This is the best way to describe it...

 Imagine your cpu is an assembling factory and the parts shelfs represent the cache and trucks delivering parts represents your "data shipments" comming from the memory. The trucks travel rather slowly compaired to the employees inside the factory. Say a truck delivered enough payload to fill your 2mb shelfs (cache). The truck leaves to get another load. If the parts shelfs are emptied before the truck returns guess what your employees are doing? Sitting there waiting for the shelfs to be filled again. With bigger shelfs, a larger load can be delievered to keep the employees busy untill the truck can return with another load. Make sense?


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

16/none/none? huh 16 what? bit color? is that short for 1600x1200? none/none is that AA/AF?

I run quake4 at the step before maximum but the res is 1600x1200. I will have to check the exact settings but it's on the backup image untill I get this crossfire issue sorted and all my apps back on. All I have on here is 3dmark05 for testing crossfire. Hey how about 3dmark05 with 1gb vs. 2gb running one 1950 pro? I can get those numbers for you and see if there's a change.


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 7, 2007)

Yeah, I know what you're saying, but if I might refine...

The shelves can be as big as the storage facility they're in, but if the truck's trailer is the same size, it won't matter how big the shelves are...right??????


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## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

16 processes/no viruses/no adware

the main thing im saying is that the E6600 isnt worth the extra money. if it was something like 30-40, it wouldnt be too bad, but for an additional 90...

For the kind of apps shes gonna use, the 2mb wont make it *that* much faster at all. 

With the RAM, 1GB is adequate, but you may need to upgrade it in the near future. Look at new stuff like Vista, and how much mem that takes up. Now i know not everyone will get vista straight away, im just using it as an example.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

The shelfs ARE the storage facility inside the cpu. The trucks trailer capacity is theoretically unlimited. It's equal to the size of your installed memory. Imagine 2gb of cache? The system wouldn't even use memory. XP would load straight to the CPU. Some day. Cache is much much faster then ram. That's why it's even there. To speed up processing.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> 16 processes/no viruses/no adware
> 
> the main thing im saying is that the E6600 isnt worth the extra money. if it was something like 30-40, it wouldnt be too bad, but for an additional 90...
> 
> ...



Do you remember the first celerons with NO cache? The whole system came to a screeching hault when ANY cpu intensive application ran. Gaming was almost impossible on it compaired to the P3 counterpart that had cache. Also back then the P3 with 512kb cache knocked the socks off the same speed P3 with 256kb. Or go back further to the days of pipeline burst modules. Add one of those to your 486 and it was like having a new computer. They were also VERY expencive. Cache isn't cheap. Pun intended.  Why offer more of it on your CPU models if it really isn't helping?

Do the newer processors have the ability to disable the cache in the bios like the older ones did? Try it some day and run a few benchmarks. I haven't seen it lately though.


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## Grings (Jan 7, 2007)

no i meant 16processes/no antivirus/adware scanner

3d mark 05 dosent see much difference between 1 and 2 gig (didnt on mine anyway)

and sorry if last post sounded rude, wasnt my intention


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 7, 2007)

ok, must sleep, screen is fuzzy (12:47am.)
I'll check in tomorrow and I'll keep everyone that's been so helpful posted.

Much and many thanks to all.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

No problem Tigger!

Grings you didn't sound rude at all. I was confused to what you meant by that. It's answering my question! lol =) I was thinking you were talking about videosettings in a game that effected your scores using 1gb vs. 2gb. Sorry for the confusion.

40/none/none services/virus/adware


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## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> Do you remember the first celerons with NO cache? The whole system came to a screeching hault when ANY cpu intensive application ran. Gaming was almost impossible on it compaired to the P3 counterpart that had cache. Also back then the P3 with 512kb cache knocked the socks off the same speed P3 with 256kb. Or go back further to the days of pipeline burst modules. Add one of those to your 486 and it was like having a new computer. They were also VERY expencive. Cache isn't cheap. Pun intended.  Why offer more of it on your CPU models if it really isn't helping?
> 
> Do the newer processors have the ability to disable the cache in the bios like the older ones did? Try it some day and run a few benchmarks. I haven't seen it lately though.



lol but thats my point...the computer aint gonna be benchmarked and such. Its only really going to be used for basic computer applications. Im not denying that the extra cache doesnt make a difference, but im saying, in this situation, the extra money is better in her pocket, cus to her, it wont make a diff. Even a P4 would be great for her system for what she is doing, but thats just silly because of the other parts she has  (If she was getting a P4, she wouldnt need such a mobo and such )


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> lol but thats my point...the computer aint gonna be benchmarked and such. Its only really going to be used for basic computer applications. Im not denying that the extra cache doesnt make a difference, but im saying, in this situation, the extra money is better in her pocket, cus to her, it wont make a diff. Even a P4 would be great for her system for what she is doing, but thats just silly because of the other parts she has  (If she was getting a P4, she wouldnt need such a mobo and such )



I will agree with you that it would be worth more in her pocket. In the computer, on the other hand, she would -notice- more performance gains spending it on the 6600 vs. another gig of memory. Benchmarks arn't real world. You have that right. But they do reflect the abilities, or lack of, of a system. In that p3/celeron example, I was thinking back to when I bought a celeron to save $$ and it ended up biting me in the ass and killing my framerates in...quake 3 was it? on my voodoo3 3500? lol "Oh the memories!" The p3 I replaced it with was actually slower then the celeron clock wise. I can't remember exactly which chips they were but around the 733 clock. The p3 was an "eb" processor. E for the 512kb cache B for boxed.


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## Pinchy (Jan 7, 2007)

Then e6400 and 1GB of nice, quick memory? 

(remember, more RAM can always be easily added )


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 7, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Then e6400 and 1GB of nice, quick memory?
> 
> (remember, more RAM can always be easily added )



That's the cheapest route. Cache and speed can't be eaisly added.


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## Wile E (Jan 7, 2007)

mytiggertiger said:


> No worries
> 
> Everyone was so wonderful with the CPU assistance, how about a case to put all this stuff in???????
> Western Digital Caviar SE16, 250GB HD
> ...


How about something like these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811166030

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119047

The're not over the top, but pretty nice cases. The Cooler Master's pictures do it no justice. It looks much better in person.


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 9, 2007)

Sorry I took so long to reply, but I don't dare chat at work...ya never know who's watching.

Am I gathering from the input that I for what I want to do I spent a little more than I had to on the components I already purchased??????  (The gaming keyboard is only because of the rebate, otherwise I would have never gotten it.....$34.99 after the rebate.)

I want to thank Lazzer408, WarEagleAU and WiliE for their case input, but the first was too plain, the second set was a little over my budget the third is in the general range, but not quite there.  (Typical woman ya know.)  It'll be just like a car, I'll see it and it will just jump out at me and I'll get it.

Crunch time, I want to have everything bought by this weekend; just a goal, no other reason.

Oh yea, I ment to ask, if all don't mind, is there anything I should also be looking for that I'm not thinking about (besides extra fans...if needed?)  Ya know, in relation to the kid's toy you bought and go home just to find that small disclaimer "batteries not included."


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## Wile E (Jan 9, 2007)

A good aftermarket cpu cooler wouldn't hurt. It'll come in handy after we talk you into overclocking. lol


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 21, 2007)

First off, thanks to everyone for the great input.

I finally have all my parts, they are:
EVGA nForce 680i MoBo
Core 2 Duo E6400
WD Cavalier 16MB cashe, 250GB
nVidia 7600GT
Soundblaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio
Xion RealPower 600W PS
Corsair 2GB (2X2048) 5400C4 DDR2
Liteon 52X CD-RW (I'll get my DVD Combo in a few weeks)
Ultra Aluminus Blue Case
Logitech G15 Keyboard
Logitech G5 Mouse

What really stinks is the fact the XP Pro and Office Suite cost almost as much as all the parts listed above.   They should offer bundle for buying both, don't ya think???


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## Wile E (Jan 21, 2007)

You could've bought the OEM version of XP for around 1/2 the price.

Looks like a good combo to me, I would've gone with pc6400C4 ram personally.

As far as a DVD combo, you can get great DVD burners on Newegg for $30-40.

All in all tho, very good build.


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 21, 2007)

I've always been a little weary of the OEM stuff; don't know why, just from hearing others I guess.

I was going to go for the 6400, but I changed my mind due to the sale at the time I was looking, and I've been told by many that memory is by far the easiest thing to upgrade, so i can if I need to in the future.  I did go for two 1GB sticks instead of 2-512 like I was planning 

On the downside, I jsut read the post about the X-FI having issues with some MoBos and mine is one they didn't test, but it has me a little concerned?????

I'll post some pics as soon as I complete the build.

I'm really want to get that LightScribe thing on the DVD, so I'm just waiting for a sale (everything I bought was on sale and most had rebates


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## anticlutch (Jan 21, 2007)

This might be a bit late but I think the E6400 with 2gb ram is a much better choice. For my computer, I had initially purchased 1gb of ram (2x 512mb), but I ended up buying 1gb more because I could not do anything with the 1gb. While idling, I was using up ~500 mb of my ram (I was only running about 45 processes that were not memory intensive). But when I tried to run BF2, it would lag a LOT because my system simply did not have enough memory. Even when I had turned off all of the non-essential processes (i.e. chatting programs, winamp, firefox, etc.), it would still lag because BF2 would consume 600+mb of ram, while I only had about 450-500mb free. So even though you don't play memory-intensive games, I suggest that you get 2gb of ram if you are even considering an upgrade to Vista (I had tried Vista RC2 with both 1gb of system ram and 2gb of ram and the difference was very noticeable).


@tigger: so did you buy the 6400 or the 6600? And just a suggestion: if you can't stand loud computers you should consider buying after-market coolers for both your CPU and graphics card ( coolers will cost about 40-50 for the CPU, and under 40 for the GPU). Obviously, your new computer will be louder than your Dell but if the noise is tolerable, then don't worry about buying after-market coolers. If you think it's *too* loud however, I have a few coolers that I have either used personally or fitted on a friend's computer.


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## Wile E (Jan 21, 2007)

anticlutch said:


> This might be a bit late but I think the E6400 with 2gb ram is a much better choice. For my computer, I had initially purchased 1gb of ram (2x 512mb), but I ended up buying 1gb more because I could not do anything with the 1gb. While idling, I was using up ~500 mb of my ram (I was only running about 45 processes that were not memory intensive). But when I tried to run BF2, it would lag a LOT because my system simply did not have enough memory. Even when I had turned off all of the non-essential processes (i.e. chatting programs, winamp, firefox, etc.), it would still lag because BF2 would consume 600+mb of ram, while I only had about 450-500mb free. So even though you don't play memory-intensive games, I suggest that you get 2gb of ram if you are even considering an upgrade to Vista (I had tried Vista RC2 with both 1gb of system ram and 2gb of ram and the difference was very noticeable).
> 
> 
> @tigger: so did you buy the 6400 or the 6600? And just a suggestion: if you can't stand loud computers you should consider buying after-market coolers for both your CPU and graphics card ( coolers will cost about 40-50 for the CPU, and under 40 for the GPU). Obviously, your new computer will be louder than your Dell but if the noise is tolerable, then don't worry about buying after-market coolers. If you think it's *too* loud however, I have a few coolers that I have either used personally or fitted on a friend's computer.


Reread her post, she did go with 2GB and the 6400.



@tiger - how about this for a burner?  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827151136

And when it's in the budget, I also suggest a good aftermarket cpu cooler. Even if you don't overclock, it's still a good investment.


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## mytiggertiger (Jan 21, 2007)

Wile E said:


> @tiger - how about this for a burner?  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827151136
> 
> And when it's in the budget, I also suggest a good aftermarket cpu cooler. Even if you don't overclock, it's still a good investment.



There's that OEM again.  Call me crazy, but I just don't know?  From my understanding OEMs are basically the same as retail but w/out the paperwork  ora am I wrong?

I was looking at CPU coolers in Fry's (just to get an upclose look) and those suckers are heavy!!!!  Am I totally looking at the wrong things???


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## Wile E (Jan 21, 2007)

The oem doesn't include paperwork or the ide cable, but you can download the paperwork from their website, and you already have the ide cable. There's no reason not to buy oem burners.

And yes, aftermarket coolers are heavy, but they include backing plates so it spreads the load evenly across the rear cpu area, that way you don't get any point of stress on the motherboard. There's no worries if you install it correctly.


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## Tatty_One (Jan 21, 2007)

Lazzer408 said:


> Cache is quite important or we'd all have had soc370 celerons and not p3s. Threads are getting bigger and leo is getting larrrrger.



Some apps actually run faster with less cache (but the test I have is based on single cores 512K versus 1mB) but overall the average is about 6%......in games 0-2% only.


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