# Why I'm now an Apple fan...



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

Many computer enthusiasts say that Apple is a company with questionable business ethics and overpriced products, but from my recent experience I would have to disagree and commend Apple for their excellent customer service. I purchased a new iPad about two weeks ago and waited for my case and screen protectors to arrive before opening it. When the goods arrived, I unwrapped my new toy. But upon opening it I immediately noticed there was a stuck pixel-like blemish on the screen. A little diagnosis later and the conclusion was reached that the blemish was neither a dead pixel nor a ding on the surface, it was something under the screen. With that information, I went to exchange the iPad at the Apple store. I unfortunately arrived without making an appointment. The wait time was said to be over two hours. I sat there for a while until the Genius who scheduled my appointment approached me and asked what the issue was with my iPad. I showed her the blemish, and after taking one look, she took me right over to the counter and helped me make the exchange.  

The second iPad worked great for a few days, but yesterday I noticed that it had a bright green stuck pixel, which went unnoticed for the entire time I used my new toy since the PPI is extraordinarily high with the retina display. To add onto my lack of fortune, the iPad was one day past the 14 day return window. I went to the Apple store again to explain my case, and again, the Genius took one look and exchanged it, no questions asked. I checked for dead pixels in the store immediately after getting the replacement and it checked out clean. 

I go home, do whatever I had to do (shower, eat, etc), and decided to take my iPad out to play Draw Something before bed so the lights were already off in my room. Upon turning it on I noticed that there were 4 areas of backlight bleeding on the left side of the display. What did I do? I called Apple, explained my case, and was told that all I had to do was take it back, get it looked at, and have it exchanged despite the amount of times I've already exchanged it and the fact that it's past the window of time for return. I plan on doing that tomorrow, and since I'm already on my 3rd iPad, I don't see why this time will be different. I was told time and time again that it was not a problem, and that me being satisfied with my product is their priority.

I don't think any company has ever demonstrated such exemplary customer service, at least not to me personally. I know a lot of my friends here at TPU feel that Apple is a company worth boycotting, but I, for the first time, beg to differ. Yes their prices command an industry high premium. Yes they might mistreat their employees overseas (of which I share an ethnicity). And yes they might be a little too eager to litigate when it comes to patent infringement, but they are also just as eager to please a customer. Would I ever buy from Apple again despite the woes of my first Apple product? Absolutely! Macbook Air & iPhone 5 (whenever it's out) here I come!

tl;dr - Apple skeptic experiences top in class customer service first hand and converts to an Apple fanatic.


----------



## 1nf3rn0x (Sep 1, 2012)

I'd honestly be quite pissed off having to return my new toy 3 times since it was defective. I myself have a 64GB new Ipad and I haven't had any troubles with it...


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2012)

I have heard nothing but problems with Apples customer service. They're products are nice, but as much as I love a plastic brick, I won't ever own their products. I also really dislike their business stuff going on as of late with patenting ideas rather then actual technology. They cannot handle the rise of androids and WP7 market and instead patent anything they can to get their competition in trouble. They are just demanding a monoply at this point.

The innovation road has also ended for apple as well. Instead of innovating making better products than their competitors they try and stop their competitors from making anything that at any degree is better then what they put out.


----------



## 95Viper (Sep 1, 2012)

Great customer service, but it seems product quality is lacking...  3 ipads in a month or two!
Unless, I am reading your story incorrectly.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 1, 2012)

Why are you talking about great customer service when they clearly have horrible quality assurance.  You're talking about *three defective products in a row* on receiving the product.

The worst I had was two defective products in a row.  The first may have been UPS's problem.  I contacted CyberPower and Newegg and decided to send the UPS back at UPS's expense due to the damage the box received.  The second I received, I sent to CyberPower instead (because they're only about 300 miles away versus well over 1000).  They promptly returned one that is working to this day.  All my corrospences with Newegg and CyberPower were excellent (CyberPower especially so).  Neither CyberPower nor Newegg gave me any flak about anything.  Only the second received could really be attributed to poor quality assurance versus three of Apple's.


----------



## GSquadron (Sep 1, 2012)

I have to disagree 100%. One of my friends has samsung galaxy s2 and has never had anything defective. 
I totally hate apple.
I dont want to start arguments here, because all people are against apple.
Do you know who says apple is great? Apple owners

Do you know how many times one of my website costumers asked me to repair its website? 10 TIMES!
And i did all the 10 times he imaginatively thought it was defective...
Do you mean i am better than apple?


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 1, 2012)

I had to chuckle a bit. You have to make an APPOINTMENT to speak to a Genius?? 

 I'm glad I have never had any issues with my iPhones(Not that I would know if/where an Apple store exists around here)


----------



## cdawall (Sep 1, 2012)

I like my not apple products, but that's just me you do what you want.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

*I'm sorry if this thread is turning or going to turn into a flame war. I will have no objections if a mod deems it fit to shut or delete this thread.*



FordGT90Concept said:


> Why are you talking about great customer service when they clearly have horrible quality assurance.  You're talking about *three defective products in a row* on receiving the product.
> 
> The worst I had was two defective products in a row.  It was a brand new model of UPS from CyberPower.  The first may have been UPS's problem.  I contacted CyberPower and Newegg and decided to send the UPS back at UPS's expense due to the damage the box received.  The second I received, I sent to CyberPower instead (because they're only about 300 miles away versus well over 1000).  They promptly returned one that is working to this day.  All my corrospences with Newegg and CyberPower were excellent (CyberPower especially so).  Only the second one received could really be attributed to poor quality assurance versus three of Apple's.



I definitely share your thoughts about the lack of quality assurance, and it would be a lie to say that I'm not disappointed, but I also understand that with such a densely pixelated display, there are bound to be dead pixels and defects. Their customer service really set them apart from others. Where would I go if my Asus Transformer tablet was discovered to be defective after the return period? The retailer may or may not take it back, and Asus would have me setting up an RMA over the phone or online, ship it back to them for inspection, then wait for a replacement. I can walk in an Apple store with one iPad and walk out with a replacement in under half an hour. Sure I had to do it a few times, but nothing is as reassuring as knowing that I have an entire team of staff willing to help me 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I also had important school documents on the iPad, so it was a huge relief when I was able to sync my new tablet and restore all settings, photos, documents, apps, etc, all in the store!

Edit: And all this talk (not by you, but in general) about how Apple abuses their employees overseas is a stark contrast to the feedback I get when I ask Geniuses about their experience working at the store. At least Apple employs Americans. No accents, no attitudes, no bullshit.



INSTG8R said:


> I had to chuckle a bit. You have to make an APPOINTMENT to speak to a Genius??
> 
> I'm glad I have never had any issues with my iPhones(Not that I would know if/where an Apple store exists around here)



The Apple store I have been going to is in the heart of Manhattan, right next to Central Park. Many tourists go to see the place (which is inspired by and designed after the Louvre in Paris), some even to buy their products. It's always packed, but they have over 100 units of various products on display for people to try. A 2 hour wait for an appointment at 2 in the morning was disheartening, but I was able to get out way earlier.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2012)

Wait you have to make an appointment for a product you bought? Its not like your going to get its teeth cleaned!  

My friend went in to get is Macbook fixed from hard drive failure and video issue, and they charged him out the ass for it. He just said screw it and got a Windows laptop for school and called it a day.


----------



## erixx (Sep 1, 2012)

All fine and ok, but please help to ban the use of "genius" outside of its true sense. Geniuses do not work at stores for the last 3000 years.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2012)

erixx said:


> All fine and ok, but please help to ban the use of "genius" outside of its true sense. Geniuses do not work at stores for the last 3000 years.



Yeah seriously. I don't like Albert Einstein worked in a little store.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Wait you have to make an appointment for a product you bought? Its not like your going to get its teeth cleaned!
> 
> My friend went in to get is Macbook fixed from hard drive failure and video issue, and they charged him out the ass for it. He just said screw it and got a Windows laptop for school and called it a day.



The Apple retail store I go to does more than just sell products. They also do repairs and have Geniuses specifically assigned to "Personal Setup" sections where customers are walked through their new (or old) products and taught how to use it. Technology is not always kind to those who did not grow up with it. Even to me iOS and OSX are new. I'll pick it up quickly, but it's nice to have someone designated to teaching me the little tricks and shortcuts in person.

I can't speak for potential issues that arise in time, but from my limited experience, Apple is excellent. You can buy AppleCare+ or SquareTrade if you don't want to pay full price for service. There's a reason insurance exists... home insurance, health insurance, car insurance, product insurance, etc. Speaking of SquareTrade, it's a great economical alternative to AppleCare/AppleCare+, and they allow you to have your iPad repaired in any Apple store and they will foot the bill.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> The Apple retail store I go to does more than just sell products. They also do repairs and have Geniuses specifically assigned to "Personal Setup" sections where customers are walked through their new (or old) products and taught how to use it. Technology is not always kind to those who did not grow up with it. Even to me iOS and OSX are new. I'll pick it up quickly, but it's nice to have someone designated to teaching me the little tricks and shortcuts in person.
> 
> I can't speak for potential issues that arise in time, but from my limited experience, Apple is excellent. You can buy AppleCare+ or SquareTrade if you don't want to pay full price for service. There's a reason insurance exists... home insurance, health insurance, car insurance, product insurance, etc.



Stop calling them genious's. The people who work in those stores are just a bunch of Apple fanboys trained to fix that shit. They are nothing special.


----------



## johnnyfiive (Sep 1, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Stop calling them genious's. They people who work in those stores are just a bunch of Apple fanboys trained to fix that shit. They are nothing special.



We get it, you don't like Apple. The term genius is used within the Apple stores to pin point people who actually know how to fix Apple products. They go through training and have to be certified before they can claim the genius title. It's an earned title, and those "genius" titled employee's actually make a nice amount per hour...thanks to Apple paying them properly. Apple makes great products, has fantastic support and service, and they know how to keep customers satisfied.

I think a lot of you guys posting negative comments aren't reading the original post in the right light. Kan is simply saying he received great service and because of that, he is now inclined to purchase more future Apple products. 
Apple has great customer service, even if things are out of the return period. I doubt you will get the same treatment at a local best buy. If you bought something and try to return it after the 30 day return period, I bet they won't allow it. If they do, I bet there is a restock fee along with no cash/card return, but store credit.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> ...I also understand that with such a densely pixelated display, there are bound to be dead pixels and defects.


I've bought/installed 7 monitors, 5 of which were 1920x1080 or bigger without a single dead pixel/faulty monitor.  That adds up to far more pixels than the Retina display on the iPad.  I think what your experience says is they have poor methods for testing Retina displays for defects.




Kantastic said:


> The retailer may or may not take it back, and Asus would have me setting up an RMA over the phone or online, ship it back to them for inspection, then wait for a replacement.


Because ASUS can't afford to put an ASUS Store in all the major cities.  The PC and Android markets are highly competitive, no one has the profit margins necessary to do that.  Instead, they have to rely on main stream retailers to be the middlemen for DOA/infant mortality products.

In short, what you're describing as a positive of Apple is a consequence of the monopoly they have on their products.




Kantastic said:


> I can walk in an Apple store with one iPad and walk out with a replacement in under half an hour.


I could do the same at the Gateway outlet in North Sioux City not too far from here.  The the thing is, Gateway/Acer doesn't really have any outlets anywhere except here and California where they build the computers.  See above for an explaination of why that is.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Stop calling them genious's. The people who work in those stores are just a bunch of Apple fanboys trained to fix that shit. They are nothing special.



Sorry if that offends you, but I refer to Apple store employees Geniuses just as I refer to GeekSquad employees Geeks. I'm not putting Apple store employees on a pedestal or giving them credit they don't deserve, it's just a reference.




FordGT90Concept said:


> I've bought/installed 7 monitors, 5 of which were 1920x1080 or bigger without a single dead pixel/faulty monitor.  That adds up to far more pixels than the Retina display on the iPad.  I think what your experience says is they have poor methods for testing Retina displays for defects.



You don't think it has anything to do with the maturity of 1080P display fabrications versus the super high density retina display that has yet to be rivaled in the market?



FordGT90Concept said:


> Because ASUS can't afford to put an ASUS Store in all the major cities.  The PC and Android markets are highly competitive, no one has the profit margins necessary to do that.  Instead, they have to rely on main stream retailers to be the middlemen for DOA/infant mortality products.
> 
> In short, what you're describing as a positive of Apple is a consequence of the monopoly they have on their products.
> 
> I could do the same at the Gateway outlet in North Sioux City not too far from here.  The the thing is, Gateway/Acer doesn't really have any outlets anywhere except here and California where they build the computers.  See above for an explaination of why that is.



That's one store out of 50 states. Apple has 5 in Manhattan (that I'm aware of). As for the monopoly... would you care to elaborate (not that it's relevant to this thread)? There are competing Windows and Android counterparts for every single product Apple has to offer. I would relate the abundance of Apple stores to the fact that they value their customers and do things the way Dell, HP, Gateway, Lenovo, etc should be doing it. I know that buying a building in Asia, filling it up with people, and routing all customer support calls overseas is more economical, but it's a much larger inconvenience for customers.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Sorry if that offends you, but I refer to Apple store employees Geniuses just as I refer to GeekSquad employees Geeks. I'm not putting Apple store employees on a pedestal or giving them credit they don't deserve, it's just a reference.



Well than that makes more sense.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 1, 2012)

I've had to exchange my Asus ROG matrix 5870 two times (think I have threads on it here) and while they replaced it both times I wasn't a fan of them for it. Replacement of a faulty product should be a given! 

Have we sunk so low that the basic expectations of customer service have been placed on such a high pedestal? 


I was infuriated with Asus! I spent so much $520 to get a card that was expected to perform under extreme conditions with quality parts only for it to fail twice and delay my use of the product. 

Returns shouldn't be hailed or praised, but I suppose since we have been spiraling downward so much these days from big company policies that we are in such an awe when they replace faulty products.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2012)

AphexDreamer said:


> I've had to exchange my Asus ROG matrix 5870 two times (think I have threads on it here) and while they replaced it both times I wasn't a fan of them for it. Replacement of a faulty product should be a given!
> 
> Have we sunk so low that the basic expectations of customer service have been placed on such a high pedestal?
> 
> ...



Couldn't agree more....


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

AphexDreamer said:


> I've had to exchange my Asus ROG matrix 5870 two times (think I have threads on it here) and while they replaced it both times I wasn't a fan of them for it. Replacement of a faulty product should be a given!
> 
> Have we sunk so low that the basic expectations of customer service have been placed on such a high pedestal?
> 
> ...



With regards to my particular situation, most display manufacturers and retailers have specific dead pixel policies, and retails like Amazon have been known to blacklist customers for frequent returns of high-value items regardless of the reason (read about a guy who exchanged a few Macbooks since he was as anal as me and wanted a perfect one) and Amazon blacklisted him. They also blocked his access to his Kindle books. Apple replaced it twice and will do it a third time no questions asked. That's more than I can ask for, and that's more than any other company will tolerate.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> With regards to my particular situation, most display manufacturers and retailers have specific dead pixel policies, and retails like Amazon have been known to blacklist customers for frequent returns of high-value items regardless of the reason (read about a guy who exchanged a few Macbooks since he was as anal as me and wanted a perfect one) and Amazon blacklisted him. They also blocked his access to his Kindle books. Apple replaced it twice and will do it a third time no questions asked. That's more than I can ask for, and that's more than any other company will tolerate.



Hmmmm, I know for a fact Dell will replace your monitors and devices as many times as it takes. Dell also has No dead pixel gaurentee on their monitors so you shouldn't have an issue with it anyways. To even pass that gaurentee their monitors go through a lot of evaluation and testing before they are packaged up.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> With regards to my particular situation, most display manufacturers and retailers have specific dead pixel policies, and Amazon has been known to blacklist customers for frequent returns of high-value items regardless of the reason (read about a guy who exchanged a few Macbooks since he was as anal as me and wanted a perfect one) and Amazon blacklisted him. They also blocked his access to his Kindle books. Apple replaced it twice and will do it a third time no questions asked. That's more than I can ask for, and that's more than any other company will tolerate.



Your just proving my point. 
And as for what other companies tolerate I just told you Asus did the replacement for me 2 times and Amazon is an online retailer. I could have done it a third+ if I hadn't fixed the card myself. I'm still not a fan of Asus even if they replaced my card 1000 times. I'd quit on them by 4h or 5th and be frustrated with them after the 2nd.

This just shows the fanaticism people claim apple fans to have. Apple does something basic and they are praised for it.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Hmmmm, I know for a fact Dell will replace your monitors and devices as many times as it takes. Dell also has No dead pixel gaurentee on their monitors so you shouldn't have an issue with it anyways. To even pass that gaurentee their monitors go through a lot of evaluation and testing before they are packaged up.



There are definitely other companies out there that value their customers... but I'm curious as to where Dell monitors are taken for replacement, how long the downtime is, and who pays for the shipping (if they're not taken to a local store)?



AphexDreamer said:


> Your just proving my point.
> And as for what other companies tolerate I just told you Asus did the replacement for me 2 times and Amazon is an online retailer. I could have done it a third+ if I hadn't fixed the card myself. I'm still not a fan of Asus even if they replaced my card 1000 times. I'd quit on them by 4h or 5th and be frustrated with them after the 2nd.
> 
> This just shows the fanaticism we claim apple fans to have. Apple does something basic and they are praised for it.



How long was the downtime in between cards? Did you get a used or a refurbished card back or a brand new, sealed retail card? Every time I RMA something it's refurbished. The one time I had to contact Asus (first time building a system), I was charged for phone support. Of course I paid since I wanted to get the X58 system running, but paying for support for a product I just bought is never fun.

As for the fanaticism... guilty as charged. Any company, regardless of whether it's Apple, Dell, Asus, etc will earn my loyalty if they treat me like Apple did. It just so happens that many are fans of Apple because Apple is one of the few companies that do things right (by my book).


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> You don't think it has anything to do with the maturity of 1080P display fabrications versus the super high density retina display that has yet to be rivaled in the market?


Immaturity is not an excuse for quality assurance.  Also, there's been screens out there with higher pixel denisty than the iPad 2 for a long time (used in radiology) so it isn't exactly immature in the first place--just new to Apple.





Kantastic said:


> That's one store out of 50 states. Apple has 5 in Manhattan (that I'm aware of). As for the monopoly... would you care to elaborate (not that it's relevant to this thread)? There are competing Windows and Android counterparts for every single product Apple has to offer. I would relate the abundance of Apple stores to the fact that they value their customers and do things the way Dell, HP, Gateway, Lenovo, etc should be doing it. I know that buying a building in Asia, filling it up with people, and routing all customer support calls overseas is more economical, but it's a much larger inconvenience for customers.


But where do you get Windows and Android products at?  Electronics stores like Radio Shack, Best Buy, Circuit City, Walmart, Target, etc.  You don't go to brick and mortar Microsoft store to buy Windows products, do you?  You don't go to a brick and mortar Google store to buy an Android product, do you?  You don't go to a Dell brick and mortar store to buy a Dell computer, do you?  Where there's competition, there are many parts and peices involved.

We're not talking about the products here, we're talking about where you buy and return a defective product to.

If HTC could profit $412.49 on every phone they sell for $600 like Apple did on the 16 GB iPhone 4, HTC could afford to put 5 stores in Manhattan too.  But no, they got Samsung, Motorola, Pantech, Impule, LG, and Xperia breathing down their neck.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> *There are definitely other companies out there that value their customers... but I'm curious as to where Dell monitors are taken for replacement, how long the downtime is, and who pays for the shipping (if they're not taken to a local store)?*
> 
> 
> 
> How long was the downtime in between cards? Did you get a used or a refurbished card back or a brand new, sealed retail card? Every time I RMA something it's refurbished. The one time I had to contact Asus (first time building a system), I was charged for phone support. Of course I paid since I wanted to get the X58 system running, but paying for support for a product I just bought is never fun.



Well, I have never once had to pay for shipping to return anything. YOu just use your words and ask nicely to have a pre-paid shipping label and 90% of the time they will honor it. I know that Cadaveca's turn around for when he had a broken monitor from shipment was pretty quick. I think about a week. I usually would get refurbished depending on the part. Motherboard and GPUs are ussually always refurbs while memory and hard drives/SSs are brand new.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> There are definitely other companies out there that value their customers... but I'm curious as to where Dell monitors are taken for replacement, how long the downtime is, and who pays for the shipping (if they're not taken to a local store)?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



People need to raise their standards, cause its low standards that make it easy for companies to get away with the walking all over us that they are... well... already getting away with. If you are fine with the time and money (gas surely?) you spent replacing the product and would gladly waste more time and money getting more product replaced then continue on with your "satisfaction". 

I can't recall the downtime as it was a while back, maybe a week? And I don't know if the card came back brand new or refurbished but it came back sealed that is for sure. I paid no shipping, no phone charges and I shouldn't have to pay for their mistakes...


----------



## entropy13 (Sep 1, 2012)

Amen, Kantastic! It is with much trepidation to see that you have achieved through enlightenment through the excellent products of the Holy Apple!

Glory be the Sacred Company!


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Immaturity is not an excuse for quality assurance.  Also, there's been screens out there with higher pixel denisty than the iPad 2 for a long time (used in radiology) so it isn't exactly immature in the first place--just new to Apple.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What about the expenses of having stores in scattered about the US? What about the higher-than-standard wages Apple pays its employees which, mind you, are in a country where the unemployment rate is abnormally high for our GDP? Where do you think they find the resources to maintain their operations within the country? I don't know what point you're trying to make, you're reinforcing my argument that Apple has more accessible and professional service. Point taken!



MxPhenom 216 said:


> Well, I have never once had to pay for shipping to return anything. YOu just use your words and ask nicely to have a pre-paid shipping label and 90% of the time they will honor it. I know that Cadaveca's turn around for when he had a broken monitor from shipment was pretty quick. I think about a week. I usually would get refurbished depending on the part. Motherboard and GPUs are ussually always refurbs while memory and hard drives/SSs are brand new.



A week (which you say is quick, so I don't want to imagine slow) versus a 2 hour round trip from home or a 45 minute trip during my breaks between classes... 



AphexDreamer said:


> People need to raise their standards, cause its low standards that make it easy for companies to get away with the walking all over us that they are... well... already getting away with. If you are fine with the time and money (gas surely?) you spent replacing the products and would gladly waste more time and money getting replaced more and more then continue on with your "satisfaction".
> 
> I can't recall the downtime as it was a while back maybe a week? And I don't know if the card came back brand new or refurbished but it came back sealed that is for sure. I paid no shipping, no phone charges and I shouldn't have to pay for their mistakes...



I get a new product directly off the shelf every single time.  As for travel expenses, I go to college about 15 minutes away by foot from the Apple store so it's a non-issue. I can't speak for others though, which is why this thread is about my revelation based on my personal experiences.


----------



## entropy13 (Sep 1, 2012)

Ignore the wailing of the non-believers like Ford, Kantastic, they are beneath the level of those who are truly enlightened.


----------



## D4S4 (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> I'm not putting Apple store employees on a pedestal or giving them credit they don't deserve, it's just a reference.



you're not. apple is. :shadedshu


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> I get a new product directly off the shelf every single time.  As for travel expenses, I go to college about 15 minutes away from the Apple store by foot so it's a non-issue.


So then your satisfaction  should be in the convince of the apple store's location which could be distributed evenly between your schools location, the apple stores location and your choice of school and store. And with the response you gave me you should be able to realize why your reason for apple being great cannot apply to everyone simply because an apple store can't be conviently located near everyone.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2012)

entropy13 said:


> Ignore the wailing of the non-believers like Ford, Kantastic, they are beneath the level of those who are truly enlightened.


----------



## entropy13 (Sep 1, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2tfdnCPn4B2akCT55P3t_Ihdwobrn_OCHTlAU0w44YEeF_bfsmA&t=1



The words of the truly enlightened are beyond your comprehension, of course you will never be sure.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2012)

entropy13 said:


> The words of the truly enlightened are beyond your comprehension, of course you will never be sure.



Im not sure how a piece of plastic can truely enlighten anyone?


----------



## entropy13 (Sep 1, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Im not sure how a piece of plastic can truely enlighten anyone?



See? You can't even fathom the true nature of the Holy Apple's great products and service.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

AphexDreamer said:


> So then your satisfaction  should be in the convince of the apple store's location which could be distributed evenly between your schools location, the apple stores location and your choice of school and store. And with the response you gave me you should be able to realize why your reason for apple being great cannot apply to everyone simply because an apple store can't be conviently located near everyone.



My school happened to be close to an Apple store. People happen to live close to Micro Center. I happen to live far, far away from Micro Center (by public transit). It would be ignorant of me to attribute my new appreciation of Apple's customer service solely to the chance that I happen to attend school in the area. Apple has hundreds of locations spread across 45 states, a much better ratio than a competitor like Gateway's 1 store in 1 state. Is Apple more accessible than every other product manufacturer? Yes. Is it more accessible than Best Buy? Maybe not (though I'm sure it would give them a run for its money), but then there's a reason they're often called Worst Buy. Best Buy required ID from me so that they could scan it into their system the last 2 times I returned something (low cost items). When I asked why, they said that they started the policy because people are known to buy things to use and return. Apple asked me for ID once to verify my name for the initial pickup since I set it up over the phone.

Oh and FWIW, when I bought an iPad as a farewell present for someone last year, Best Buy gave me an iPad 2 instead of a new iPad. That sure was one embarrassing phone call when I asked the recipient if he liked his new new iPad.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> What about the expenses of having stores in scattered about the US? What about the higher-than-standard wages Apple pays its employees which, mind you, are in a country where the unemployment rate is abnormally high for our GDP? Where do you think they find the resources to maintain their operations within the country? I don't know what point you're trying to make, you're reinforcing my argument that Apple has more accessible and professional service. Point taken!


Because of Apple's huge profit margins on their products and services, they can afford to pay high wages and running stores that aren't profitable.  From my research, it doesn't look like an Apple Store has _ever_ closed its doors permanently.

Even in this crappy economy, Apple products are still getting record sales.  Hook, line, and sinker comes to mind.  Also, monopoly.

The first Apple Store opened on May 19, 2001.  iPod (first major "cult" product) debuted October 23, 2001.  The success of iPod was due to the iTunes Store which debuted April 28, 2003.

I'm reinforcing the point that since 2003, Apple has established an unshakable monopoly.  They hook people at their Apple Stores with their iPod device (later iPhone and now iPad), they real in the line with the iTunes Store (which, until recently, required iTunes or Apple product to decode), and their sinker is in the form of lawyers that attack anyone that tries to directly compete.

The solution is simple: iOS and Mac OS X needs to become the product of a separate company (like Google with Android and Microsoft with Windows), Apple Stores need to be made their separate company, and iTunes Store needs to be made a separate company.  Apple, itself, can retain its Mac, iPhone, iPad, and iPod products but it will be forced to buy the operating systems from a separate company, sell content via a separate company (they cannot show favoritism what-so-ever towards the former iTunes Store), and they will have to sell their products non-exclusively through many stores, not just Apple Store (which should be forced to rebrand).  Google and Microsoft may, at some point, be forced to break off Windows Store and Android Store from their core companies as well.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> My school happened to be close to an Apple store. People happen to live close to Micro Center. I happen to live far, far away from Micro Center (by public transit). It would be ignorant of me to attribute my new appreciation of Apple's customer service solely because of me happening to attend school in the area. Apple has hundreds of locations spread across 45 states, a much better ratio than a competitor like Gateway's 1 store in 1 state. Is Apple more accessible than every other product manufacturer? Yes. Is it more accessible than Best Buy? Maybe not (though I'm sure it would give them a run for its money), but then there's a reason they're often called Worst Buy. Best Buy required ID from me so that they could scan it into their system the last 2 times I returned something (low cost items). When I asked, they said that they started the policy because people are known to buy things to use and return. Apple asked me for ID once to verify my name for the pickup since I set it up over the phone.



Somethings are by chance but your schools location... someone chose for it to be there as did someone for the apple store. It would be ignorant for you not to attribute your new appreciation of apple for its location. Because if it weren't close and you had to spend more money and more time then I think you (like some others) would be more annoyed with having to do several returns on a product. Of course everyone values their time and money differently. Some have plenty of both or don't care for either and perhaps it is those who value apple more than others. 

Your claim on apple being good/great/whatever because they saw through to replace a faulty product is not enough to convince me and nor should it be enough to convince anyone of any company's "greatness". Is it a good thing, sure it is. I'd like to think the expensive product I get works as it should. Does it make any company great? No.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Because of Apple's huge profit margins on their products and services, they can afford to pay high wages and running stores that aren't profitable.  From my research, it doesn't look like an Apple Store has _ever_ closed its doors permanently.
> 
> Even in this crappy economy, Apple products are still getting record sales.  Hook, line, and sinker comes to mind.  Also, monopoly.
> 
> ...



So you're criticizing them for being successful because they operate according to a consumer-oriented business model and have dedicated stores where they allow customers to freely try their products and buy them if they find it to their liking? Because they have employees being paid high wages to help customers gain a more intuitive experience with their products, something no other company in the industry does? And because they sell products that cater to the general mass and not self-proclaimed enthusiasts (I'm guilty) that scavenge the market for a product that offers the best value, therein netting lowest profits for the company producing it?

And have you forgotten that Samsung, HTC, LG, etc all have a team of lawyers? Most that are actively working on lawsuits between each other as we speak?


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 1, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Im not sure how a piece of plastic can truely enlighten anyone?



Mines made of metal and glass  But I don't feel anymore enlightened.(No fanboy just have one  ) Just ribbing ya


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

AphexDreamer said:


> Somethings are by chance but your schools location... someone chose for it to be there as did someone for the apple store. It would be ignorant for you not to attribute your new appreciation of apple for its location. Because if it weren't close and you had to spend more money and more time then I think you (like some others) would be more annoyed with having to do several returns on a product. Of course everyone values their time and money differently. Some have plenty of both and perhaps it is those who value apple more than others.
> 
> Your claim on apple being good/great/whatever because they saw through to replace a faulty product is not enough to convince me and nor should it be enough to convince anyone of any company's "greatness". Is it a good thing, sure it is. I'd like to think the expensive product I get works as it should. Does it make anyone great? No.



I'm attributing my appreciation of Apple to the fact that they replaced my iPad twice without even so much as a remark, not because of their location. And even if I were praising them only because I happened to be conveniently close to a store, is being within proximity of an Apple store that unique to me when the franchise operates in hundreds of locations throughout 45 states? If it is, I have nothing to say. Well, maybe I do: curse them for being prosperous!


----------



## casual swift (Sep 1, 2012)

I have to agree.... They definitely are not scared to backup their products. I'm going back to the Iphone 5 and I couldn't be happier about it. =)


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 1, 2012)

Once again, we have someone commenting that Apple is actually halfway decent based on his experience, and an army of online warriors just have to try to convince him that Apple is actually a greedy capitalist who is out there trying to get his money and soul. What is wrong with liking a company with fairly efficient customer services?


----------



## erixx (Sep 1, 2012)

As said I am sincerly happy you fixed the issue. Yet please do yourself a favour, stop using corporate bullshit brainwashing neolingua. When I go eat a Burgerking hamburger (god forgive) that they sell as "the best hamburger in the world" I do not go to my friends in the forums and tell them I actually did eat the "best burger in the world". I know this would not be true, just as the employees-geniuses are not real geniuses! This is so hilarious you made my day! haha!

Paraphrasing Clint Eastwood: The country belongs to us, not to the politicians (read: marketing teams)...


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 1, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> Once again, we have someone commenting that Apple is actually halfway decent based on his experience, and an army of online warriors just have to try to convince him that Apple is actually a greedy capitalist who is out there trying to get his money and soul. What is wrong with liking a company with fairly efficient customer services?


 
Someone had to be the voice of reason in here


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> So you're criticizing them for being successful because they operate according to a consumer-oriented business model and have dedicated stores where they allow customers to freely try their products and buy them if they find it to their liking? Because they have employees being paid high wages to help customers gain a more intuitive experience with their products, something no other company in the industry does? And because they sell products that cater to the general mass and not self-proclaimed enthusiasts (I'm guilty) that scavenge the market for a product that offers the best value, therein netting lowest profits for the company producing it?


I suggest you read over this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopolistic_competition

1. Product differentiation - Check, there's slight variations in all products sold in especially MP3 player, tablet, and smartphone markets.  There's a greater amount of varation among computers.
2. Many firms - Check, I named many previously in the smartphone market.
3. Free entry and exit in the long run - Check, those with the capital can enter and those without can leave.
4. Independent decision making - Check, no one company is necessarily dictating what the others do.
5. Market Power - Check, Apple has almost absolute control over their market.  They've even demonstrated power over their manufacturers in China.
6. Buyers and Sellers do not have perfect information  - Apple has control over their own supply chain and only they can know their information (and what little they release to investors).

Most stores sell many products so if you walk in their door, they're trying to sell one of many competing products.  Apple Stores carry only one product and there is little to no competition amongst products (and certainly not manufacturers) there.  If you walk into an Apple Store and say "I want an 802.11ac router," they're not going to say "here's a Buffallo router that has that," no, they're going to say "we don't carry that, but we do have this AirPort router that has 802.11n."  They will try their best to convince you that you  don't need 802.11ac and most people will buy the inferior product.  Few will walk out the door and go to a competing store that carries the product they explicitly looked for.

I can't name one company, except Apple, that has such top-to-bottom control of manufacturer to sale.  Even McDonalds has to buy their beef from producers and distributors where they have to purchase it at whatever price it is available for.  They can't dictate, like Apple has, to its Chinese manufacturers.  If one Chinese manufacturer doesn't comply, they'll simply switch to another, and another, and another.




Kantastic said:


> And have you forgotten that Samsung, HTC, LG, etc all have a team of lawyers? Most that are actively *working on lawsuits between each other as we speak*?


There's that but they also have to sick those lawyers on suppliers, manufacturers, and retailers that they don't control--unlike Apple.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> I'm attributing my appreciation of Apple to the fact that they replaced my iPad twice without even so much as a remark, not because of their location.


Again but it is do to its convenient proximity to your school that makes the replacement easy. Or do you deny this? If so, then if it were further and it cost your more effort to make each replacement several times, would you still be ok with that? 


Kantastic said:


> And even if I were praising them only because I happened to be close, is being within proximity of a franchise that unique to me when the franchise operates in hundreds of locations throughout 45 states? If it is, I have nothing to say.



Well now you are beginning to sound a little self centered it seems? There are certainly far more people not near an apple store than near an apple store. You can't assume that because you are near one everyone is near one? So yes in some respects it is unique to you. But of course location is one thing, then their is transportation and time to consider as well. 

I can acknowledged your appreciation for how conveniently close the store is to you and the benefits it provides you in terms of replacing broken products, but you are tricked into thinking that the broken product replacement is anything to be worth mentioning.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

erixx said:


> As said I am sincerly happy you fixed the issue. Yet please do yourself a favour, stop using corporate bullshit brainwashing neolingua. When I go eat a Burgerking hamburger (god forgive) that they sell as "the best hamburger in the world" I do not go to my friends in the forums and tell them I actually did eat the "best burger in the world". I know this would not be true, just as the employees-geniuses are not real geniuses! This is so hilarious you made my day! haha!
> 
> Paraphrasing Clint Eastwood: The country belongs to us, not to the politicians (read: marketing teams)...



My only problem with your analogy is... did you really feel that the burger you ate was the best burger you've ever had? And I'll assume you didn't read the first page of the thread so I won't bother to address your issue with the vernacular I use to reference Apple employees.



AphexDreamer said:


> Again but it is do to its convenient proximity to your school that makes the replacement easy. Or do you deny this? If so, then if it were further and it cost your more effort to make each replacement several times you'd be ok with that?


 
My first trip to get a replacement was from home, which was 45 minutes away by public transit, maybe 25-30 by car. That was very manageable and I have no complaints. I spent 50 minutes on the train each way going to and from high school for 4 years, and I'm now spending about 1 hour each way going to and from college, again, from home. Being able to get to the Apple store quicker by foot because I happen to attend school in the area is a bonus. My cost and effort to replace the tablet regardless of where I am in NYC would be $2.25 each way and anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours of sitting on my ass while the train weaves through intricate tunnels and bridges. It's actually less since I used to have a school-provided, fully-prepaid subway card, and now I buy a 30-day unlimited card for a flat fee of $104. The more I use it, the cheaper it gets per trip. Even going to school 5 days a week ($2.25 each time x 2 times a day x 5 days a week x 4 weeks a month) is $90 alone, but I can go anywhere I want on weekends, holidays, and non-school hours for no additional cost to the $104 flat rate. 



AphexDreamer said:


> Well now you are begin a little self centered it seems? There are certainly far more people not near an apple store than near an apple store. You can't assume that because you are near one everyone is near one? So yes in some respects it is unique to you. But of course location is one thing, then their is transportation and time to consider as well.



There are certainly far more people near an Apple store than there are HP, Dell, Gateway, Sony, Samsung, Asus, Acer, Lenovo, HTC, and LG combined. I can assume that majority of consumers have easier access to an Apple store than they do for any other electronic company.



AphexDreamer said:


> I can acknowledged your appreciation for how conveniently close the store is to you and the benefits it provides you in terms of replacing broken products, but you are tricked into thinking that the broken product replacement is anything to be worth mentioning.



Quality of customer service is relative, and in my case relative to my experiences with other manufacturers (Asus and Linksys charging for phone support, Sony and HP selling me dud products and refusing to honor replacements, etc). Apple is easily the most accommodating of the bunch.


----------



## n-ster (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> With regards to my particular situation, most display manufacturers and retailers have specific dead pixel policies, and retails like Amazon have been known to blacklist customers for frequent returns of high-value items regardless of the reason (read about a guy who exchanged a few Macbooks since he was as anal as me and wanted a perfect one) and Amazon blacklisted him. They also blocked his access to his Kindle books. Apple replaced it twice and will do it a third time no questions asked. That's more than I can ask for, and that's more than any other company will tolerate.



If you want easy exchanges, you go buy your computer in a store, some have warranty things that let you deal with the store and they will deal with the manufacturer for you etc. I'd rather save my money and buy online and have less convenient service.

Also, it is pretty funny that he did exchanges for MACBOOKS... aren't you shooting yourself in the foot with that example if you want to give a better image of Apple? Oh and I have no idea but shouldn't he be able to do an exchange at an Apple store if he has one near him?

Usually, Apple fanboys pride themselves by shouting they never have any problems whatsoever with their computers etc, but I have found this to not be true, they seem to have just as many problems. Another argument is that they have the best quality parts and "you buy it and it just works, no problems", I have to disagree on that too.

I do understand that you are saying Apple has great replacement service, and I somewhat agree. I don't necessarily agree on customer service. For example, my sister went to the Apple store twice and with 2 different Geniuses because she had a bug on her safari that made the tabs disappear or make them unusable or wtv. one of them spent hours on it while the other one spent 20 mins. They weren't able to fix the problem and basically told her she was SOL. She came home that weekend and she asked me to take a look at it as it was seriously crippling her ability to do research etc for Uni. I updated Safari to the newest version and voila. What idiots dont... I mean... common a GeekSquad would have done that... 

If your argument is only a good replacement service, yes, but that doesn't outweigh all the cons, or the lack of pros for the price you pay


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 1, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Most stores sell many products so if you walk in their door, they're trying to sell one of many competing products.  Apple Stores carry only one product and there is little to no competition amongst products (and certainly not manufacturers) there.  If you walk into an Apple Store and say "I want an 802.11ac router," they're not going to say "here's a Buffallo router that has that," no, they're going to say "we don't carry that, but we do have this AirPort router that has 802.11n."  They will try their best to convince them they don't need 802.11ac and most people will buy the inferior product.  Few will walk out the door and go to a competing store that carries the product they explicitly looked for.
> 
> I can't name one company, except Apple, that has such top-to-bottom control of manufacturer to sale.  Even McDonalds has to buy their beef from producers and distributors where they have to purchase it at whatever price it is available for--they can't dictate like Apple has done to its Chinese outsourcers.



Okay well now your just reaching...You don't walk into an Apple store looking for a Windows Phone now do ya?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 1, 2012)

Where's the Windows brick-and-mortar store?  Where's the Samsung brick-and-mortar store?  Where's the HTC brick-and-mortar store?  They don't exist because there's too much competition amongst them to afford it.  What does exist is AT&T, US Cellular, Verizon, and Sprint stores (or providers).  They carry an array of competing iOS, Android, and Windows Phone products.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> My first trip to get a replacement was from home, which was 45 minutes away by public transit, maybe 25-30 by car. That was very manageable and I have no complaints. I spent 50 minutes on the train each way going to and from high school for 4 years, and I'm now spending about 1 hour each way going to and from college from home. Being able to get there quicker by foot because I happen to attend school in the area is a bonus. My cost and effort to replace the tablet regardless of where I am in NYC would be $2.25 and anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours of sitting on my ass while the train weaves through intricate tunnels and bridges.



So you must enjoy taking time from your day to do these things... 



Kantastic said:


> There are certainly far more people near an Apple store than there are HP, Dell, Gateway, Sony, Samsung, Asus, Acer, Lenovo, HTC, and LG combined. I can assume that majority of consumers have easier access to an Apple store than they do for any other electronic company.



Those combined can be found anywhere. They don't use propitiatory stores, they use every and any store. 



Kantastic said:


> Quality of customer service is relative, and in my case relative to my experiences with other manufacturers (Asus and Linksys charging for phone support, Sony and HP selling me dud products and refusing to honor replacements, etc). Apple is easily the most accommodating of the bunch.



Well of course its relative. That is why you started your thread on your relative appreciation for Apple. I'm just showing you why others would not find your relative enjoyment of replacing broken products as rewarding as you have. And based on the response you had given me that you were 15 minutes away, I proceeded  to tell you why it was really attributed to your close proximity.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

n-ster said:


> If you want easy exchanges, you go buy your computer in a store, some have warranty things that let you deal with the store and they will deal with the manufacturer for you etc. I'd rather save my money and buy online and have less convenient service.
> 
> Also, it is pretty funny that he did exchanges for MACBOOKS... aren't you shooting yourself in the foot with that example if you want to give a better image of Apple? Oh and I have no idea but shouldn't he be able to do an exchange at an Apple store if he has one near him?



Shooting myself in the foot? No. There's nothing wrong with not settling for a perfect unit, and that includes the pettiest of things such as backlight bleeding. I'm doing it too, but at least I know Apple won't blacklist me, take away my Apple account along with my apps, and never sell to me again. They replace it until I'm happy. Model retailer? I would say so.



n-ster said:


> Usually, Apple fanboys pride themselves by shouting they never have any problems whatsoever with their computers etc, but I have found this to not be true, they seem to have just as many problems. Another argument is that they have the best quality parts and "you buy it and it just works, no problems", I have to disagree on that too.
> 
> I do understand that you are saying Apple has great replacement service, and I somewhat agree. I don't necessarily agree on customer service. For example, my sister went to the Apple store twice and with 2 different Geniuses because she had a bug on her safari that made the tabs disappear or make them unusable or wtv. one of them spent hours on it while the other one spent 20 mins. They weren't able to fix the problem and basically told her she was SOL. She came home that weekend and she asked me to take a look at it as it was seriously crippling her ability to do research etc for Uni. I updated Safari to the newest version and voila. What idiots dont... I mean... common a GeekSquad would have done that...



But you were able to go to an Apple store and they did (or tried to do it) for no cost. Your sister's Geniuses (AND I NEED TO REITERATE TO OTHERS THE FACT THAT THIS IS THEIR TERMINOLOGY, NOT MINE) just happened to be idiots. Although I'm sure if your sister was a little more adamant on resolving the issue before she left, the Geniuses would have sought out someone more knowledgeable in troubleshooting. Then again, I can't speak for their technical department since, as I've said many times, I have yet to experience it first hand. When I do it may or may not sway my current position, but that will be something time will tell.



n-ster said:


> If your argument is only a good replacement service, yes, but that doesn't outweigh all the cons, or the lack of pros for the price you pay



What cons to be exact? And what price am I paying that I wouldn't pay elsewhere? I paid $544 after tax for an iPad with an amazing display (better than the top-tier Asus TF700T's 1200P screen) that makes reading .pdf files for school a breeze, the accessibility of Apple support 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. No waiting for emails, no paying for phone support, no shipping hassles, nothing. I also received a free $50 iTunes/Apps gift card because I'm a student. An Asus TF700T would cost me roughly the same with tax, and even with tax it's the same since I get the $50 Apple gift card.

A Zenbook Prime is $1000 vs. a Macbook Air for $1100. Sure the Zenbook comes with a 1080P IPS screen, but the Air, again, comes with Apple's convenience and accessibility, an amazing trackpad (that no Windows machine has ever come close to), A REALLY COOL MAGSAFE CHARGER!!! , and a much more stable, closed operating system that also manages to automatically sync my files and documents across all my other Apple devices, a headache-less feature that I dearly need for college.



FordGT90Concept said:


> Where's the Windows brick-and-mortar store?  Where's the Samsung brick-and-mortar store?  Where's the HTC brick-and-mortar store?  They don't exist because there's too much competition amongst them to afford it.  What does exist is AT&T, US Cellular, Verizon, and Sprint stores (or providers).  They carry an array of competing iOS, Android, and Windows Phone products.



Jesus Christ what point are you trying to make here? Apple is a 300 billion dollar company, Microsoft is a 230 billion dollar company, and Google is a 200 billion dollar company. They're all more than capable of spitting out retail locations, especially Google since it, like Apple, owns both the hardware and software aspect of its smartphones and can easily source out manufacturers to make laptops to run its Chromium OS. I may be wrong though since I've done no extensive research, but you keep comparing Apple to HTC... how about a business that's actually comparable?



AphexDreamer said:


> So you must enjoy taking time from your day to do these things...
> 
> Those combined can be found anywhere. They don't use propitiatory stores, they use every and any store.
> 
> Well of course its relative. That is why you started your thread on your relative appreciation for Apple. I'm just showing you why others would not find your relative enjoyment of replacing broken products as rewarding as you have. And based on the response you had given me that you were 15 minutes away, I proceeded  to tell you why it was really attributed to your close proximity.



I can find a Verizon store 10 minutes away from my house and a Best Buy like 20 minutes from my house. Will Verizon have my hypothetical defective Nokia Lumia 900 fixed in (and I'm being generous) a week? Will Geek Squad repair my device for free if it's still under warranty?


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 1, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Where's the Windows brick-and-mortar store?  Where's the Samsung brick-and-mortar store?  Where's the HTC brick-and-mortar store?  They don't exist because there's too much competition amongst them to afford it.  What does exist is AT&T, US Cellular, Verizon, and Sprint stores (or providers).  They carry an array of competing iOS, Android, and Windows Phone products.



I'm sure a couple of them have the resources to have their own stores. But do they have a enough/diverse products to warrant it?(Samsung comes to mind first they make ALOT more than phones of course)

 I get where your coming from but you can't blame Apple for being the only one to actually DO IT and be successful at it


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

Okay guys, it's 5 AM so I'm going to call it quits for the night.

I'd like to offer a thanks to those who offered constructive arguments for two reasons. The first being that it's always nice to debate with my fellow TPU members on anything and everything, that's what keeps this place so fun and has me coming back day after day.

But to be honest, although everything I've said is true (including going to Apple and replacing my iPad tomorrow/later today and me being a huge Apple fan now), the second reason I would like to thank everyone is because I made this thread as a personal experiment to test out a writing technique that I learned in English which involves incorporating the conflicting or alternative perspectives of others in my argument(s). I'm sorry if I may have gotten a little harsh, but it's 5 in the morning and I'm running on 8 hours of sleep for the entire week so forgive me if I crossed a line, I get really grumpy when I'm sleep deprived (which is like all the time).

Thanks to all those who contributed!!!


----------



## Phusius (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Many computer enthusiasts say that Apple is a company with questionable business ethics and overpriced products, but from my recent experience I would have to disagree and commend Apple for their excellent customer service. I purchased a new iPad about two weeks ago and waited for my case and screen protectors to arrive before opening it. When the goods arrived, I unwrapped my new toy. But upon opening it I immediately noticed there was a stuck pixel-like blemish on the screen. A little diagnosis later and the conclusion was reached that the blemish was neither a dead pixel nor a ding on the surface, it was something under the screen. With that information, I went to exchange the iPad at the Apple store. I unfortunately arrived without making an appointment. The wait time was said to be over two hours. I sat there for a while until the Genius who scheduled my appointment approached me and asked what the issue was with my iPad. I showed her the blemish, and after taking one look, she took me right over to the counter and helped me make the exchange.
> 
> The second iPad worked great for a few days, but yesterday I noticed that it had a bright green stuck pixel, which went unnoticed for the entire time I used my new toy since the PPI is extraordinarily high with the retina display. To add onto my lack of fortune, the iPad was one day past the 14 day return window. I went to the Apple store again to explain my case, and again, the Genius took one look and exchanged it, no questions asked. I checked for dead pixels in the store immediately after getting the replacement and it checked out clean.
> 
> ...




I bought a 1440p monitor from green_sum off ebay, 289.99 free ship no tax, guess what?  0 dead pixels and hardly any backlight bleed...  lulz

I don't like Apple.  I buy from shady dealers who love me long time right from the first date.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

Phusius said:


> I bought a 1440p monitor from green_sum off ebay, 289.99 free ship no tax, guess what?  0 dead pixels and hardly any backlight bleed...  lulz
> 
> I don't like Apple.  I buy from shady dealers who love me long time right from the first date.



Well.. hardly any means some right? My current iPad has 4 points of backlight bleed along one side... but it's actually hard to notice unless the lights are off, the brightness is set to high, the background is pitch black, and the iPad is held as a slightly off handle. The difference here is that I'm getting a replacement in the next 12 hours for what others an average consumer would deem to be a totally acceptable iPad.

OKAY FOREALZ THIS TIME! G'NITE!


----------



## Frick (Sep 1, 2012)

I don't have anything to add, just wanted to say that the discussion is good. I came here expecting a war, but no. Good going guys and gals!


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Jesus Christ what point are you trying to make here? Apple is a 300 billion dollar company, Microsoft is a 230 billion dollar company, and Google is a 200 billion dollar company. They're all more than capable of spitting out retail locations, especially Google since it, like Apple, owns both the hardware and software aspect of its smartphones and can easily source out manufacturers to make laptops to run its Chromium OS. I may be wrong though since I've done no extensive research, but you keep comparing Apple to HTC... how about a business that's actually comparable?


Apple only has about a dozen distrinct products (things you can go to a brick and mortar store to buy).  Microsoft and Google have at least 50 either directly (e.g. Chrome Book) or through aquisitions (like Motorola).




Kantastic said:


> I can find a Verizon store 10 minutes away from my house and a Best Buy like 20 minutes from my house. Will Verizon have my hypothetical defective Nokia Lumia 900 fixed in (and I'm being generous) a week? Will Geek Squad repair my device for free if it's still under warranty?


Yes, they'll take your defective Lumia 900, copy your files over to another one, and give you that one.  They'll then send the defective Lumia 900 in and get reimbursed for it.  My dad has done that a LG Quantum at Hills Electronics (which has a contract with AT&T).  It actually doesn't matter who made the phone (could be an iPhone for that matter), they handle them all the same.  Hills Electronics, Best Buy, Walmart, Circuit City, etc. are manufacturer-neutral.  As far as customer/customer service is concerned, the manufacturer doesn't matter.  The product is obviously still returned to the manufacturer but none of that involves the customer.

Geek Squad...it depends on what is wrong.  If the product, for example, didn't include a cable, they could give you a cable and pass the cost on to the manufacturer.  If it is something they are not equiped to handle, they have to send it in to the manufacturer.  Typically, GeekSquad would only be used outside of the standard 30-day warranty where manufacturer is the only option.

Anyway, I'm done in this thread.  I've said what needed to be said.


----------



## Frick (Sep 1, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Yes, they'll take your defective Lumia 900, copy your files over to another one, and give you that one.  They'll then send the defective Lumia 900 in and get reimbursed for it.  My dad has done that a LG Quantum at Hills Electronics (which has a contract with AT&T).  It actually doesn't matter who made the phone (could be an iPhone for that matter), they handle them all the same.



This depends on the store I think. I bought a media player for a cousin at a big european retailer, and the player broke within a month. I returned it, they sent it to their shops, confirmed the screen was defective, THEN sent me a new one. Took more than a month. While I agree that Apple service isn't spectacular (compare to the likes of HP's premium offerings), it isn't shabby either. It's convenient, if you happen to live near their stores.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 1, 2012)

You're talking about a product that isn't contracted.  Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, etc. are contract services.  They respond very differently in terms of defective products.


----------



## Phusius (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Well.. hardly any means some right? My current iPad has 4 points of backlight bleed along one side... but it's actually hard to notice unless the lights are off, the brightness is set to high, the background is pitch black, and the iPad is held as a slightly off handle. The difference here is that I'm getting a replacement in the next 12 hours for what others an average consumer would deem to be a totally acceptable iPad.
> 
> OKAY FOREALZ THIS TIME! G'NITE!



I just learned Apple boys are really really picky.  lulz


----------



## Frick (Sep 1, 2012)

Phusius said:


> I just learned Apple boys are really really picky.  lulz



Naah, just Kantastic.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 1, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> You're talking about a product that isn't contracted.  Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, etc. are contract services.  They respond very differently in terms of defective products.



What about laptops, desktops, WiFi-only tablets, and monitors? 



Phusius said:


> I just learned Apple boys are really really picky.  lulz



I'm an Apple fan for 2 weeks and own 1 apple product. It's an honor to know that I qualify as an Apple "boy". Really though, Apple does charge more than the industry average, partly so they can offer the service they do. I pay for it so why not take advantage of it? 

OKAY, I SWEAR, I'M GOING TO SLEEP


----------



## n-ster (Sep 1, 2012)

The cons of apple products? Cost if you compare similar specked stuff (retina ipad/MBP are exceptions as they are unique) , lack of features like USB ports on ipad , flash support etc lack of upgradeability and longevity (batteries for iphones, MBP) stuff like oh and that non-standard ports (micro-USB would have been nice)

Pros somewhat innovative as you can get high res tablet. Replacement service

The base price isnt that bad on an ipad... but if you want a sim card slot or more than 16gb... its 100$ to double capacity and 150$ for the 3g or 4g wtv


----------



## erixx (Sep 1, 2012)

Sleep, genius.... lol


----------



## 1nf3rn0x (Sep 1, 2012)




----------



## Elmo (Sep 1, 2012)

Nothing great about the ipad. My ipad crashes alot . In terms of OS its limited . For developer usage its pointless its geared more towards normal consumers for daily stuff like checking mail/watching movies/games . But its silly that its limited to only mp4 and there isnt really a good file management system . Its also hard to upload pictures from the ipad . In the end the plus points are its user friendly and portable .


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 1, 2012)

While I generally disagree with Ford's general "Anti Apple" stance. He does have a fair point on the Origin of the Apple Store/iTunes beginnings. That's how I ended up getting "sucked in"  

When my Nokia N95 went wonky I got it back from getting fixed I sold it.

 I decided to try out the "new" HTC phone(can't remember the model) It had Windows Mobile on it. BUT because I'm in Norway the phone is in Norwegian(I'm Canadian) Well this Windows is "chip locked" language wise. "Norwegian Windows" That's IT!. I want English Windows different chip/phone. So Impossible. Sold it the next day. Well my next choice was iPhone 3G. I mean up until then I wouldn't even have Quicktime on my PC's.

 Well like Ford said you NEEDED iTunes to even fire it up. Bang that's it I'm now "chained" to it. Now I'm perfectly happy with my 3G does what I need for a phone. I skipped 3GS, I'm now on 4 and skipping 4S So I'm now well "invested" into Apps and the odd iTunes album purchase so it's hard for me to justify going with another phone. I'm not unhappy with my 4 either really. 

But there ya go I'm an "iPerson" out of convenience mostly 

 "Apple"


----------



## commission3r (Sep 1, 2012)

just so we're clear i don't like or dislike apple as a brand and i don't have anything apple nor do i have any experience in anything apple (except red or green) but to drool, i got better hardware and service, its called WOMAN but then maybe you prefer MAN

"Apple is excellent. You can buy AppleCare+......"

i may be wrong and out of this world for saying this, i do live on an island (uk).
manufacturers generally offer some kind of warranty with their products for certain lengths of time. seems to me as a customer you will pay for something that is already provided. maybe you could look at the terms and condition or the small print.

"Where would I go if my Asus Transformer tablet was discovered to be defective after the return period? The retailer may or may not take it back, and Asus would have me setting up an RMA over the phone or online, ship it back to them for inspection, then wait for a replacement. I can walk in an Apple store with one iPad and walk out with a replacement in under half an hour"

if you had stopped and considered what if apple didn't have a retail unit then you might have considered how you might have gone about returning your 3 defective pads

"At least Apple employs Americans. No accents, no attitudes, no bullshit"

american english is a accent and maybe your new love is much like you, a racist bastard child

"People need to raise their standards, cause its low standards that make it easy for companies to get away with the walking all over us"

this is how you got suckered. many brands use the same tactics as apple you'd (already are in your case) be a fool to fall for it. they threw some glitter in your eyes and voila. apple became the pimp and you became their whore. 3 times no less.


----------



## m1dg3t (Sep 1, 2012)

I never met anyone who waz happy to receive a defective product 3 times and praise the company for their level of "service" 

Apple customers. :shadedshu

Use of the term "genius" to describe their techs is demeaning to the people in the world who ACTUALY are fucking geniuses. Just another example of their play on words to make you feel warm and fuzzy inside....

Posted from my Galaxy s2


----------



## micropage7 (Sep 1, 2012)

actually im not apple fan, for product i have to say they offer more than other, thats is prestige
your friends would say wow when you bring apple stuff and maybe thats the most selling point when you choose apple
i try to separate their product and their attitude, they make good stuff? yes, they have "bad attitude"? yes.


----------



## Aquinus (Sep 1, 2012)

You know that you can just walk into an Apple store and wait for a Genius, but you have to do exactly that... wait. If you make an appointment there is no waiting. I work for an institution that is a Apple shop, we have two PC workstations, one of which I use for development and another for testing stuff on Windows. For all of the issues that our laptops have had, Apple has been more than happy to fix our machines for us. I also might note that very few of our laptops have experience issues at all (2 out of 40 laptops,) which isn't bad at all.

So all in all, I like Apple for the products that they release and the ease of use of all of their devices. I don't however like the price associated with their hardware, but when you're not personally buying them, it's a much different world.

I also might add that using OpenDirectory with OS X has worked great and I would take OS X Server over a Windows Server with Active Directory any day.


----------



## Frick (Sep 1, 2012)

m1dg3t said:


> I never met anyone who waz happy to receive a defective product 3 times and praise the company for their level of "service"
> 
> Apple customers. :shadedshu
> 
> ...



They could be asshats about it, get tired of him. The last issue a lot of people would probably not even notice, and they could draw the line there. But they just keep giving him replacements. What it does say is a) Kantastic is very VERY unlucky, or b) something is off with Apples QA. Maybe a bit of both, i don't know how many people complain about the new iPads so I can't really say anything about that.


----------



## digibucc (Sep 1, 2012)

they can afford to do that with the fact that they mark up their products 200% in the first place, and how poorly treated and underpaid their workers(read: outsourced workers)  are.

i'm glad you're so satisfied with a product of what an alarmist might call slave labor.


----------



## pantherx12 (Sep 1, 2012)

Sounds like you got standard warranty service dude.

Over here if your product is faulty you take it to the shop with your receipt and exchange just like you did. 

It should be standard practice sounds like the stores you go to just have crappy returns policies.


----------



## Frick (Sep 1, 2012)

digibucc said:


> they can afford to do that with the fact that they mark up their products 200% in the first place, and how poorly treated and underpaid their workers(read: outsourced workers)  are.
> 
> i'm glad you're so satisfied with a product of what an alarmist might call slave labor.



Apple has improved in that area since the suicides.

Also, hate on everyone else as well. In the words of Primus: "Nowadays everything's made in Chiinnaaaaa."


----------



## Wrigleyvillain (Sep 1, 2012)

No shit. People seem to conveniently forget it's *FOXCONN*, ffs.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 1, 2012)

That still doesn't change the fact that Apple is buying cheap components and selling them super expensive...


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 1, 2012)

RejZoR said:


> That still doesn't change the fact that Apple is buying cheap components and selling them super expensive...



Surely not actually questioning the quality of Apple products? I'm no fanboy but Apple stuff is anything but cheap. My iPhone is a "tomb" of metal and glass. Mac's are "almost" art.(Okay I exaggerate) but they are anything but cheap...


----------



## de.das.dude (Sep 1, 2012)

all is see is the poor quality of apple products and that even the replacement offered wasnt upto standards. a total fail.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 1, 2012)

My wifes I phone went dead (wouldn't charge) a few weeks ago. She had to make a appointment to got into the store to have it looked at /replaced. We got there and after about 2 hrs they came back and said they weren't going to cover it under warranty. Mind you this phone is only 2 weeks at the most old. They said there was water damage to the phone. Phone has never been near water. I asked them how they came to this conclusion. There response was that there are 3 moisture strips in the phone that detect water presence. The strip goes from whatever they said the default color ( i think it's white) was to red. Now the internal strips where fine, no damage. The so called tech said that there was a slight pinkish color to the strip on the charging port. It was not red but ever so slightly pink. I was like WTF. I just paid $400 for this phone for her and you are not going to cover it. I'd be damn. I told them that if a slight amount of water ever got near the port enough to ever so slightly change the strip color that the phone should of been able to handle that. As it is a phone it should not be that delicate and something needed to be done. I pulled out my phone which is some cheap Sanyo or something thats like 5 yrs old. I showed him mine and said this phone has been dropped in water, stepped on, beat on and sent to hell a couple times. Then I dialed my wife number and said look it still works. He then asked if we bought the extra insurance. I said we did and he walked away and came back with a new phone and asked her to step to the counter so they could set it up. My wife and I have both said that that would be the last Apple product to ever come in to the house. When she is up for upgrade that phone is gone.


----------



## m1dg3t (Sep 1, 2012)

In Portugese, IIRC, A P P L E means (loosely translated of course) "He pisses over there" 

Well seems like they been pissing on us instead.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2012)

INSTG8R said:


> Surely not actually questioning the quality of Apple products? I'm no fanboy but Apple stuff is anything but cheap. My iPhone is a "tomb" of metal and glass. Mac's are "almost" art.(Okay I exaggerate) but they are anything but cheap...



Yes they are anything but cheap. Thats why the Iphone shatters when it doesn't have a case on it from a 2ft fall. You shouldn't need top buy a case for a $200+ phone. And your phone is a tomb of brittle plastic and weak glass with bad assembly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKxgsrJFhw



ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> My wifes I phone went dead (wouldn't charge) a few weeks ago. She had to make a appointment to got into the store to have it looked at /replaced. We got there and after about 2 hrs they came back and said they weren't going to cover it under warranty. Mind you this phone is only 2 weeks at the most old. They said there was water damage to the phone. Phone has never been near water. I asked them how they came to this conclusion. There response was that there are 3 moisture strips in the phone that detect water presence. The strip goes from whatever they said the default color ( i think it's white) was to red. Now the internal strips where fine, no damage. The so called tech said that there was a slight pinkish color to the strip on the charging port. It was not red but ever so slightly pink. I was like WTF. I just paid $400 for this phone for her and you are not going to cover it. I'd be damn. I told them that if a slight amount of water ever got near the port enough to ever so slightly change the strip color that the phone should of been able to handle that. As it is a phone it should not be that delicate and something needed to be done. I pulled out my phone which is some cheap Sanyo or something thats like 5 yrs old. I showed him mine and said this phone has been dropped in water, stepped on, beat on and sent to hell a couple times. Then I dialed my wife number and said look it still works. He then asked if we bought the extra insurance. I said we did and he walked away and came back with a new phone and asked her to step to the counter so they could set it up. My wife and I have both said that that would be the last Apple product to ever come in to the house. When she is up for upgrade that phone is gone.



this is exactly what I am talking about.


----------



## m1dg3t (Sep 1, 2012)

Bitch please! I used to jack MoFos with my Motorolla brick 

1 Smack over the head was all it took  Even better than gun butting someone if you ask me


----------



## theonedub (Sep 1, 2012)

I've had to travel to the Apple Store two times to have an iPhone 4 and iPod touch replaced (both belong to my better half, not my devices). 

I'll agree that they replaced the devices with little to no issue, but the appointment requirement is ridiculous. The first time I went without an appointment was similar to going to the ER @ 2AM. You wait for hours in a room filled with people you would really not rather be around annoyed to death hoping you get out of there quick and none of the other people bother you


----------



## Solaris17 (Sep 1, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Why are you talking about great customer service when they clearly have horrible quality assurance.  You're talking about *three defective products in a row* on receiving the product.
> 
> The worst I had was two defective products in a row.  The first may have been UPS's problem.  I contacted CyberPower and Newegg and decided to send the UPS back at UPS's expense due to the damage the box received.  The second I received, I sent to CyberPower instead (because they're only about 300 miles away versus well over 1000).  They promptly returned one that is working to this day.  All my corrospences with Newegg and CyberPower were excellent (CyberPower especially so).  Neither CyberPower nor Newegg gave me any flak about anything.  Only the second received could really be attributed to poor quality assurance versus three of Apple's.



Did anyone read the gizmodo article a few days ago when they got ahold of a genius training manual? They aren't nice because they are nice people.

http://m.gizmodo.com/5938323/how-to-be-a-genius-this-is-apples-secret-employee-training-manual


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 1, 2012)

LoL Mad_Shot 

That reminded of my iPhone 3G Actually I "drowned" a week after I got it. I work in the Oil Industry in the machining of parts. Parts that aren't stainless or can rust get "cooked" in a huge tank full of Phosphates that "Rustproofs" them(Shiny Steel is now Black)

 We had drained the tank for cleaning and I leaned into it and my iPhone fell out of my pocket right into the water at the bottom(was not fully drained) It went for a serious swim. I fished it out, blew as much water off as I could with compressed air. Never had a single hiccup out of it. Ran for another 2yrs and I sold it at a great price too boot 

@MxPhenom 216:

I just have a thin rubber case around mine. Can almost see thru it. I have dropped it a few times(I mean does ANYONE not try to take care of their phone no matter who makes it?)
I have never been met with more than a heavy thud. I have probably now cursed myself and I will shatter it tomorrow...:shadedshu


----------



## Frick (Sep 1, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Yes they are anything but cheap. Thats why the Iphone shatters when it doesn't have a case on it from a 2ft fall. You shouldn't need top buy a case for a $200+ phone. And your phone is a tomb of brittle plastic and weak glass.



If you listeb it's the other way round. The iphone produces a "thud", the Galaxy sounds like a remote. And imo it's the othwr way round, you want to protect a more expensive thing.


----------



## Aquinus (Sep 1, 2012)

You know, weather I got an Android-based phone or an iPhone, I would get a case for it either way because I like to protect my investments.


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 1, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> You know, weather I got an Android-based phone or an iPhone, I would get a case for it either way because I like to protect my investments.



Exactly. Droid vs Apple War aside your gonna take care of it. 
Mine has the "full body" Screen Protector on it too(I'll ya that was fun to put on )


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 1, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> this is exactly what I am talking about.




The experience of going to the Apple store alone was enough for me not wanting any of there products. When my wife bought the phone, she went into our wireless phone provider store to purchase it. I can not stand being in a crowed store at all. It freaks me the hell out being shoulder to shoulder with everybody. For most of the visit to the store I standed outside and until she came out and said she was having trouble with them replacing/ repairing the phone. After the guy came back with the new phone and said they normally wouldn't replace it but would this time I went back outside. I like the fact that if I have a problem with my phone I can go into the wireless store where I got it and get service.


----------



## m1dg3t (Sep 1, 2012)

Rocking a Ballistic "combo" case on mi SG2....

Have dropped the phone, thrown the phone, kicked the phone and of course I've even sat on it. Still like new! Strangely I go through a lot of screen protectors? Haven't sent it for a swim yet, did that to my HTC TP2 & it only survived 4/5 months after that 

ProTip: For water damage: Place unpowered/un-batteried phone in a cup/jar full of rice. Make sure phone is completely covered, allow to sit for 24/48 hours. Majority of moisture will wick out  And if lucky phone will live as normal. Of course other variables come into play but it's basically free to try


----------



## Morgoth (Sep 1, 2012)

only quality items in Apple products are the Intel Processors 
every thing else is garbage


----------



## Frick (Sep 1, 2012)

INSTG8R said:


> Exactly. Droid vs Apple War aside your gonna take care of it.
> Mine has the "full body" Screen Protector on it too(I'll ya that was fun to put on )



A friend of mine spilled some superglue on his Galaxy S (still not sure how he managed that, but he's that kind of person), then he was glad he had the screen film. 



Morgoth said:


> only quality items in Apple products are the Intel Processors
> every thing else is garbage



Care to elaborate? So far the thread has been fairly civilized, it would be nice if that would continue. Even I have not flipped yet.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2012)

Frick said:


> If you listeb it's the other way round. The iphone produces a "thud", the Galaxy sounds like a remote. And imo it's the othwr way round, you want to protect a more expensive thing.



Doesn't matter what it sounds like when you have a phone with a shattered screen afterwards.


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 1, 2012)

Frick said:


> A friend of mine spilled some superglue on his Galaxy S (still not sure how he managed that, but he's that kind of person), then he was glad he had the screen film.



Well I drowned my week old 3G so we can all have our moments. I went for the "full wrap" on my 4 so I should be pretty safe against any "Glue Incidents"


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 1, 2012)

Solaris17 said:


> Did anyone read the gizmodo article a few days ago when they got ahold of a genius training manual? They aren't nice because they are nice people.
> 
> http://m.gizmodo.com/5938323/how-to-be-a-genius-this-is-apples-secret-employee-training-manual


Appointments suddenly make sense.  They need a large window of time, without interruption, to take customers through all the phases of their routine.  Before seeing that link, I thought Apple just needed a lashing by an anti-trust probe.  After seeing that, there's no company on Earth I dispise more than Apple.  They're conducting psychological warfare, secretly in their stores.  This is shit the CIA was researching in the 60s and 70s (less the LSD) applied to profits.

Edit: This is sickening.


----------



## 1Kurgan1 (Sep 1, 2012)

Haven't read the entire thread as there's a ton of big posts. But I do have a few things to say. First off, I would expect this customer service from any company. Worst case scenario with these kind of things is the 1st return takes a while. But if you have to return something a 2nd time, they get pretty damn snappy since they have botched two things and people can start getting angry and file with the BBB. On the third return, they won't even usually question you, simply because you have already had so many issues even risking making you irate is not a good idea. 

Secondly, I haven't ever had to return anything 3 times, and if I did, I would be less than happy, even if their customer support was amazing, I would be pretty damn pissed. Running to and from their store, waiting in line, to fix a product that has had numerous defaults, but they had good customer service. Fuck the customer service, I like it and all, but I prefer things that don't break.


----------



## Frick (Sep 1, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Doesn't matter what it sounds like when you have a phone with a shattered screen afterwards.



Meh, it was one test. That doesn't say much really. If you want it to become usable data you need many phones.



FordGT90Concept said:


> Appointments suddenly make sense.  They need a large window of time, without interruption, to take customers through all the phases of their routine.  Before seeing that link, I thought Apple just needed a lashing by an anti-trust probe.  After seeing that, there's no company on Earth I dispise more than Apple.  They're conducting psychological warfare, secretly in their stores.  This is shit the CIA was researching in the 60s and 70s (less the LSD) applied to profits.
> 
> Edit: This is sickening.



That is pretty standard stuff really. When I was a MS tech support it was something similiar. It wasn't that comprehensive, but reading that really makes it come back. It's how all support works, becuase you know why? It works. It's like putting flowers and stuff at the entrance in grocery shops, it works. Or commercials or anything really.

EDIT: Look at what the commenters on the article say. I think pretty much every single salesperson and support people go through something similiar. Also, I might be wrong about it "working", but that's the impression I got when working at support.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 1, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> I can find a Verizon store 10 minutes away from my house and a Best Buy like 20 minutes from my house. Will Verizon have my hypothetical defective Nokia Lumia 900 fixed in (and I'm being generous) a week? Will Geek Squad repair my device for free if it's still under warranty?



Again this goes back to how I said company's are walking all over us and lowering our standards. I never said those company's were any better than apple, but just cause Verizon sucks and Geek Squad sucks even more, Apple or lets say Asus is going to be praised for their suckyness? Its nice to know Apple will replace a product but you've also shown us that their quality assurance is certainly not doing well. 1 for 1 if anything, I'd say they are just like everyone else.


----------



## Benetanegia (Sep 1, 2012)

pantherx12 said:


> Sounds like you got standard warranty service dude.
> 
> Over here if your product is faulty you take it to the shop with your receipt and exchange just like you did.
> 
> It should be standard practice sounds like the stores you go to just have crappy returns policies.



This.


----------



## FYFI13 (Sep 2, 2012)

Ohh wait, so they made you wait for two hours and gave you another faulty unit and you call it great customer service??? Men, i'm shocked.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 2, 2012)

Frick said:


> That is pretty standard stuff really. When I was a MS tech support it was something similiar. It wasn't that comprehensive, but reading that really makes it come back. It's how all support works, becuase you know why? It works. It's like putting flowers and stuff at the entrance in grocery shops, it works. Or commercials or anything really.
> 
> EDIT: Look at what the commenters on the article say. I think pretty much every single salesperson and support people go through something similiar. Also, I might be wrong about it "working", but that's the impression I got when working at support.


Not in the USA, it isn't.  Most customer service reps I talk to do try to sympathize with you.  Apple stresses empathy, not sympathy.  The "Geniuses" objective is to admit no fault of Apple even if they are responsible.  Also, all the stores that compete with Apple Store don't require appointments like Apple does (unless it is to arrange delivery of something).  Apple cares little about the problem and a lot about brainwashing the customer into buying more/coming back.  This, as far as I know, is uniquely Apple.

Kantastic is proof it works.  A situation that should have resulted in never entering an Apple Store again except for a refund has resulted in, apparently, a lifelong customer.


----------



## Frick (Sep 2, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Not in the USA, it isn't.  Most customer service reps I talk to do try to sympathize with you.  Apple stresses empathy, not sympathy.  The "Geniuses" objective is to admit no fault of Apple even if they are responsible.  Also, all the stores that compete with Apple Store don't require appointments like Apple does (unless it is to arrange delivery of something).  Apple cares little about the problem and a lot about brainwashing the customer into buying more/coming back.  This, as far as I know, is uniquely Apple.
> 
> Kantastic is proof it works.  A situation that should have resulted in never entering an Apple Store again except for a refund has resulted in, apparently, a lifelong customer.



"As far as you know" is the key phrase. It's how advertising works, it's how sales works, it's how callcenters work, it's how the world works. Apple just provide a bit more depth in their training. Go buy a car at a bigger place and you can damn well be sure they know this as well. It generates income see, and income is always interesting.

And appointments makes a whole lot of sense to me. You either make an appoinment and arrive at that time, which is convenient, or you go there and have to wait because there are a lot of other people there. If anything the possibility to make an appointment is a plus. You can plan your day in a totally different way.


----------



## Kreij (Sep 2, 2012)

The sales (and support) techniques used by Apple have been around for decades.
You usually don't encounter them in the average reatil store in the US, but they are used a lot in one-on-one sales meetings to overcome sales opposition.

.. and yes, they work very well.


----------



## patrico (Sep 2, 2012)

me no like apple to much, cant even buy an new battery yourself for most of there tech


----------



## Aquinus (Sep 2, 2012)

patrico said:


> me no like apple to much, cant even buy an new battery yourself for most of there tech



You can replace the battery on a new MBP, or just about any of their older devices, but yes. It is getting harder to replace parts inside modern Macs, but conversely Apple batteries have had increasing capacity, better power usage, and longer longevity. Even after a year the MBP I was using held just as much charge after a year and a half than when I first got it.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 2, 2012)

All I am saying is that if I make an appointment for a certain time and show up on time, I expect to be taken care of at that time. Not 2 hrs later. I mean when I make a doctors appt for say 3pm. I get there on time they take me right in ahead of the walk in's as I did take the time to make an appt. This doesn't seem to be so with the Apple store. They have either over booked for that time or they don't have enough staff to cover appts. Either way it still shouldn't take 2 to 3 hrs to get service. I understand they are busy but damn.


----------



## Frick (Sep 2, 2012)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> All I am saying is that if I make an appointment for a certain time and show up on time, I expect to be taken care of at that time. Not 2 hrs later. I mean when I make a doctors appt for say 3pm. I get there on time they take me right in ahead of the walk in's as I did take the time to make an appt. This doesn't seem to be so with the Apple store. They have either over booked for that time or they don't have enough staff to cover appts. Either way it still shouldn't take 2 to 3 hrs to get service. I understand they are busy but damn.



Didnt he have to wait two hours because he didnt have an appointment?


----------



## Aquinus (Sep 2, 2012)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> All I am saying is that if I make an appointment for a certain time and show up on time, I expect to be taken care of at that time. Not 2 hrs later. I mean when I make a doctors appt for say 3pm. I get there on time they take me right in ahead of the walk in's as I did take the time to make an appt. This doesn't seem to be so with the Apple store. They have either over booked for that time or they don't have enough staff to cover appts. Either way it still shouldn't take 2 to 3 hrs to get service. I understand they are busy but damn.



You make it sound like waiting 2 hours is better than waiting 2 weeks for an RMA that you paid shipping for that might not be repaired/replaced because of one reason or another is a bad thing.


----------



## Kreij (Sep 2, 2012)

I'd rather wait 2 weeks for a RMA return than wait 2 hours in a retail store.
That's 2 hours of quality beer drinking time lost forever. :shadedshu


----------



## Frick (Sep 2, 2012)

Kreij said:


> I'd rather wait 2 weeks for a RMA return than wait 2 hours in a retail store.
> That's 2 hours of quality beer drinking time lost forever. :shadedshu



I reread the OP again and as I understood it he didn't make an appointment, that was why he had to wait so long.


----------



## Kreij (Sep 2, 2012)

That is how I understand it also, Frick. So it seems the people thinking he made an appointment and still had to wait two hours are incorrect.
However, having to wait more than about 10 minutes without an appointment means they need to expand their support to facilitate the traffic.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 2, 2012)

Frick said:


> Didnt he have to wait two hours because he didnt have an appointment?


I was speaking of my own experience with the Apple store. We had an appointment and still had to wait around that store for 2hrs. Which I think is more then ridiculous when going into a retail store. 



Aquinus said:


> You make it sound like waiting 2 hours is better than waiting 2 weeks for an RMA that you paid shipping for that might not be repaired/replaced because of one reason or another is a bad thing.



A 2 week wait on an rma is expected when shipping something off for repair/replacement and it has to be shipped back.


----------



## Kreij (Sep 2, 2012)

Oh, we were talking about Kantastic. If you made an appointment and still had to wait two hours, that is completely unacceptable to me.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 2, 2012)

Kreij said:


> Oh, we were talking about Kantastic. If you made an appointment and still had to wait two hours, that is completely unacceptable to me.



That's what I am saying. We had to drive almost 2 hrs away to wait in a store for over 2 hrs. It took the good part of a day dealing with them. Never again and when the contract ends on the phone it is gone with a capital G. My wife will have to pick out another brand that we can get service for at the wireless store we purchase it at.


----------



## Kreij (Sep 2, 2012)

Where do you live, MaD? ... and how much is gas by you?
It would have cost me about $40 in gas alone, not to mention 6 hours of time.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 2, 2012)

I live in Va. and gas is about $3.70 a gallon. So yeah $40 in gas and a good 6 hrs or so of a day to have a phone replaced. It just ridiculous if you ask me. Especially when I can have my pos free with a plan phone replaced in about 10 mins in the store. Only reason my wife has a IPhone is for the gps and she though it was a good phone. She needs the GPS for work (EMT) and she hops between Ambulances.


----------



## Kreij (Sep 2, 2012)

Well, there is something to be said for keeping the Mrs. happy. 

I'm a bad judge of this stuff too. I have a Motorola dumbphone. It's just a phone, which is fine because I just want to use it to call people.
I don't use GPS as I've found something better. Maps !!
I don't mind getting lost because I believe we can all agree that asking for directions is out of the question for guys and makes for more adventure!!


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 2, 2012)

Oh I don't mind maps either but with her she need precise directions on the spot as she is saving lives. Oh I also have a dumb phone as all I do is call.


----------



## Frick (Sep 2, 2012)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> I was speaking of my own experience with the Apple store. We had an appointment and still had to wait around that store for 2hrs. Which I think is more then ridiculous when going into a retail store.



Ahh that is a whole other story, and that sucks. Couldn't you send it for RMA? It would've taken longer but it may have been more convenient (speaking from epxerience, I grew up at least 100 miles away from any store that had any kind of service).


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 2, 2012)

I wish I could have but she really needs her phone for work.


----------



## n-ster (Sep 2, 2012)

For phones, I expect wherever I bought it to replace it in stores. Usually that store isn't 2 hrs away and the wait time isnt more than 20 without appointment


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 2, 2012)

We tried the store first, but where it is an Apple phone, Apple must take care of it.


----------



## Aquinus (Sep 2, 2012)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> I wish I could have but she really needs her phone for work.



I use mine for work too, so if mine broke, that wouldn't be feasible. I have an iPhone 4S, not because I wanted one, but because work would only pay for most of the phone if I got an iPhone. If I went with an android based phone I would be on my own.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 2, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> I use mine for work too, so if mine broke, that wouldn't be feasible. I have an iPhone 4S, not because I wanted one, but because work would only pay for most of the phone if I got an iPhone. If I went with an android based phone I would be on my own.



I hear you man. Her next phone will be an Android based phone.


----------



## Aquinus (Sep 2, 2012)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> I hear you man. Her next phone will be an Android based phone.



Me too, unless work pays for a new one when this one dies.


----------



## ShiBDiB (Sep 2, 2012)

One event where you got a nice customer service and multiple broken items make you like a company? God damn your naive. 

In other news, Apple is now suing to get the Galaxy S3 off the market.


----------



## de.das.dude (Sep 3, 2012)

to me any product that breaks down within 6 months from purchase is a shitty product. my asus motherbroard broke down ever 6months i had it replaced. and i am never buying their motherboards again.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 3, 2012)

ShiBDiB said:


> One event where you got a nice customer service and multiple broken items make you like a company? God damn your naive.
> 
> In other news, Apple is now suing to get the Galaxy S3 off the market.



yep suing rather than trying to make a better product....


----------



## Frick (Sep 3, 2012)

de.das.dude said:


> to me any product that breaks down within 6 months from purchase is a shitty product. my asus motherbroard broke down ever 6months i had it replaced. and i am never buying their motherboards again.



Makes no sense. I honestly do not understand this stance.


----------



## n-ster (Sep 3, 2012)

I accept that there are duds, if it doesn't work out once, I'm not gunna blacklist them like de.das.dude lol


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 3, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Not in the USA, it isn't.  Most customer service reps I talk to do try to sympathize with you.  Apple stresses empathy, not sympathy.  The "Geniuses" objective is to admit no fault of Apple even if they are responsible.  Also, all the stores that compete with Apple Store don't require appointments like Apple does (unless it is to arrange delivery of something).  Apple cares little about the problem and a lot about brainwashing the customer into buying more/coming back.  This, as far as I know, is uniquely Apple.
> 
> Kantastic is proof it works.  A situation that should have resulted in never entering an Apple Store again except for a refund has resulted in, apparently, a lifelong customer.



I'll reiterate one last time that the Apple store I go to is in the heart of Manhattan, right next to Central Park, and designed after I.M. Pei's Louvre in Paris. It has become a staple of New York City, and for tourists it is arguably a destination more worthwhile to see than Ground Zero or the Empire State. It's true that all the stores that compete with Apple don't require appointments, but there is no guarantee as to how long one would have to wait. I waited half an hour at Best Buy in a remote shopping mall to exchange my Apple Smart Cover for a different color when there were 2 people ahead of me because the employee was busy chatting with her coworker and the customer she was taking care of. If you walked into a Best Buy in the same location as the 59th and 5th Apple store, I'm sure you would be waiting hours for GeekSquad to check out your product. I could have gone to any other Apple store in Manhattan, but I chose that one for the ease of transportation and the fact that it's an architectural marvel that literally took my breath away when I saw it.

Why does it concern me whether or not Apple admits any fault to the product being less than ideal? As long as I walk out with a brand new, perfect iPad (which I did), I can care less about what they do overseas and about what ongoing lawsuits they have against other companies. They even took me into the VIP room so I could shut the door and turn the lights off to test for any backlight leakage. You argue that they brainwashed me. Brainwashed me with what? Great customer service? Insanely friendly employees that were a joy to work with? The confidence that if any of my other Apple products had issues I would be well taken care of? The fact that they're open 24/7 365 days a year so that my downtime if a device should fail is a whopping 2 hours? Yeah, they sure brainwashed me alright. I'm sure nobody else has ever had to go back to a store multiple times to exchange an item. Never. Ever. Never ever never ever never ever ever ever. Ever.

My sister's iPad was perfect right from the beginning, and we purchased it at the same time (same invoice actually). I'm particularly picky with my electronics, so a dead pixel that goes unspotted for days and can only be seen in the darkest images might have been acceptable to many customers. Backlight leakage that can only be seen when the room is pitch black and I have brightness set to max with a completely dark image might have also been acceptable to many customers. 

PS - Say hi to the Apple store.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 3, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Why does it concern me whether or not Apple admits any fault to the product being less than ideal? As long as I walk out with a brand new, perfect iPad (which I did), I can care less about what they do overseas and about what ongoing lawsuits they have against other companies. ]



This sums it up right here. He could care less what the truth about apple is as long as he has an Ipad. Whether they be stealing patents, monopolizing, false advertising, they could do so much under the restrictions stated in your quote that you'd rather remain ignorant to any negative image of Apple as long as you have an apple product.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 3, 2012)

AphexDreamer said:


> This sums it up right here. He could care less what the truth about apple is as long as he has an Ipad. Whether they be stealing patents, monopolizing, false advertising, they could do so much under the restrictions stated in your quote that you'd rather remain ignorant to their true image as long as you have an apple product.



Oh so I'm wrong for looking out for my own personal interests, as opposed to those of giant electronics manufacturers like Asus and Samsung because there CEOs are crying about the 5% decrease in their fat bonus checks? Stop being so naive. Those companies care no more about product innovation and consumer happiness than Apple does, they care about profit. If you can't, don't, or refuse to see that simple concept, you have no place complaining about company A or company B for their business ethics. Is it also wrong that I value the fact that Apple is providing thousands of comfortably paid jobs for Americans when the unemployment rate is still unacceptably high in this country?

Oh and lets be ignorant and only acknowledge Apple's patent thefts and Apple's monopoly. Apple is also the only company to ever falsely advertise a product. Yup, yup yup.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 3, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Oh so I'm wrong for looking out for my own personal interests, as opposed to those of giant electronics manufacturers like Asus and Samsung because there CEOs are crying about the 5% decrease in their fat bonus checks? Stop being so naive. Those companies care no more about product innovation and consumer happiness than Apple does, they care about profit. If you can't, don't, or refuse to see that simple concept, you have no place complaining about company A or company B for their business ethics. Is it also wrong that I value the fact that Apple is providing thousands of comfortably paid jobs for Americans when the unemployment rate is still unacceptably high in this country?



I never said you were wrong. I never complained. 

And lots of other companies are giving jobs duh.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 3, 2012)

AphexDreamer said:


> I never said you were wrong. I never complained.
> 
> And Apple is giving way more Jobs over seas then they are here.



So? They likely provide more jobs for Americans than all of your beloved companies combined.

Why are you using a Microsoft operating system anyway? Aren't you against monopolies? PM me and I'll send you a download link for a great version of Linux!


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 3, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> So? They likely provide more jobs for Americans than all of your beloved companies combined.



Actually 

"As Cameron knows, Apple is a byword of everyday sleekness. Yet there is another way of viewing the company. Focus instead on the way it does business, and all those iPhones, iPods and iPads aren't just exemplars of design and user-friendliness: they are devices that destroy western jobs. And they do so needlessly, because if the California-based giant manufactured its goods in America rather than China, it could still make profits that would be the envy of every other US business."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/23/bad-apple-employ-more-us-workers

EDIT: Microsoft gave this OS to me for free since I did their Party Pack thing... I didn't pay them for it. Oh and I do use Linux.


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 3, 2012)

this thread speaks a lot about apples build quality 
so out of 4 pieces of 600 dollar hardware you got one that worked correctly ... 
mean while over in android land you can buy a tablet with 3x's the computing power for less then half the cost


----------



## johnspack (Sep 3, 2012)

Sorry,  but I can't resist...  powerpc was the future?  now macs just run intel and geforce,  and bootcamp?...  where is the innovation in that?  total sell out in the end.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 3, 2012)

AphexDreamer said:


> Actually
> 
> "As Cameron knows, Apple is a byword of everyday sleekness. Yet there is another way of viewing the company. Focus instead on the way it does business, and all those iPhones, iPods and iPads aren't just exemplars of design and user-friendliness: they are devices that destroy western jobs. And they do so needlessly, because if the California-based giant manufactured its goods in America rather than China, it could still make profits that would be the envy of every other US business."
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/23/bad-apple-employ-more-us-workers



Right, because Apple is the only company that doesn't manufacture devices in America. Where is Google's Nexus 7 tablet made? Where are Dell, HP, Gateway, etc computers built? And where are the hundreds of stores filled with American employees of the aforementioned brands that you seem to be completely fine with?


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 3, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Right, because Apple is the only company that doesn't manufacture devices in America. Where is Google's Nexus 7 tablet made? Where are Dell, HP, Gateway, etc computers built? And where are the hundreds of stores filled with American employees of the aforementioned brands that you seem to be completely fine with?



And I never said I was fine with other Brands either.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 3, 2012)

AphexDreamer said:


> And I never said I was fine with other Brands either.



Then what point are you trying to make? Why are you singling out Apple when every other company has similar (or worse) business ethics?




OneMoar said:


> this thread speaks a lot about apples build quality
> so out of 4 pieces of 600 dollar hardware you got one that worked correctly ...
> mean while over in android land you can buy a tablet with 3x's the computing power for less then half the cost



Source please? And also find me one with a display as gorgeous as Apple's retina display. No, Asus's TF700T's 1200P display does not even come close. Next?


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 3, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Then what point are you trying to make? Why are you singling out Apple when every other company has similar (or worse) business ethics?



Because of the claims and reasoning that you are using to single out Apple.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 3, 2012)

AphexDreamer said:


> Because of the claims and reasoning that you are using to single out Apple.



I hope you realize you make no sense.


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 3, 2012)

johnspack said:


> Sorry,  but I can't resist...  powerpc was the future?  now macs just run intel and geforce,  and bootcamp?...  where is the innovation in that?  total sell out in the end.



PPC was not a innovation it was a expansion of a idea(RISC) created by a man by the name of John Cocke


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 3, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> I hope you realize you make no sense.



How am I not?

You made a thread singling out Apple, putting them on Top, and you gave your reasons why and their weak.

But people have liked other things for less.


----------



## johnspack (Sep 3, 2012)

That's a nice history lesson,  but what happened to it?  Now macs are just pcs running a mutated version of bsd.  Instead of one running on ppc...  oh well, doesn't really matter.  Sorry,  just in a bad mood tonight I guess...


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 3, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Then what point are you trying to make? Why are you singling out Apple when every other company has similar (or worse) business ethics?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



uhh pretty much anything with a nvida tegra 2/3 chip or cortex A8 will run circles around it 
and the retina display inst anything impressive its just a panel with a high pixel-per inch(PPI) ratio [the ipad 3 has a ppi of (264)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 3, 2012)

Also... 

"In the case of Apple, outsourcing manufacturing is not about keeping costs to customers down – they are still paying huge prices for the latest handset or tablet computer. Nor is it about the company's survival: it would still do tremendously well were it to bring those factories back home. No, in the case of Apple, moving jobs offshore has become a way of directing ever more money to those at the top of American society."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/23/bad-apple-employ-more-us-workers


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 3, 2012)

AphexDreamer said:


> How am I not?
> 
> You made a thread singling out Apple, putting them on Top, and you gave your reasons why and their weak.
> 
> But people have liked other things for less.



You're criticizing Apple based on their business ethics, yet you support every other company that does the same thing. They're on top of a pile of shit, but they're still on top.



AphexDreamer said:


> Also...
> 
> "In the case of Apple, outsourcing manufacturing is not about keeping costs to customers down – they are still paying huge prices for the latest handset or tablet computer. Nor is it about the company's survival: it would still do tremendously well were it to bring those factories back home. No, in the case of Apple, moving jobs offshore has become a way of directing ever more money to those at the top of American society."
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/23/bad-apple-employ-more-us-workers



What does Asus charge for their TF700T? Probably less than half of what an iPad costs right? Oh wait, they want $500 for it. Hmm... that price seems to ring a bell...




OneMoar said:


> uhh pretty much anything with a nvida tegra 2/3 chip or cortex A8 will run circles around it
> and the retina display inst anything impressive its just a panel with a high pixel-per inch(PPI) ratio [the ipad 3 has a ppi of (264)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density



Nothing special? Okay then. Great job completely ignoring my question by the way. :thumbsup:


----------



## Frick (Sep 3, 2012)

OneMoar said:


> uhh pretty much anything with a nvida tegra 2/3 chip or cortex A8 will run circles around it
> and the retina display inst anything impressive its just a panel with a high pixel-per inch(PPI) ratio [the ipad 3 has a ppi of (264)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density



1) You can't really compare Android and iOS directly in terms of performance.
2) Whut? Nothing impressive? It's the one thing that DOES make it impressive.


----------



## n-ster (Sep 3, 2012)

OneMoar said:


> uhh pretty much anything with a nvida tegra 2/3 chip or cortex A8 will run circles around it
> and the retina display inst anything impressive its just a panel with a high pixel-per inch(PPI) ratio [the ipad 3 has a ppi of (264)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_displays_by_pixel_density



stop trying to compare the unique Ipad 3rd Gen to anything. It's UNIQUE

It is special,noone else has anything like it.

That said I still think Apple products aren't worth it... a ripoff, and my personal opinion is Apple is shit, well kinda. Only exception is maybe actually the iPad 3rd Gen (base config) in the certain circumstance that you need a high res tablet and you can use it. If you are a photographer or something like that, and you  can take advantage of that screen, it's awesome. If you are using it as an e-reader or just like another tablet, perhaps not. Also, if you know you are paying for the screen and brand name and you buy it just to enjoy your eyes and show off, knowing that there are other much better tablets at a lower cost and much more functionality and power but a less good screen then that's a personal choice I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH. Hell I could see myself doing that even with a freaking 2000$ MBP Retina or iPad 3rd Gen if I had the money to waste

Imagine showing your portfolio as a photographer on the retina display? the high res can actually be used. Or just showing off pictures to friends 

One thing you can't ignore is that they pushed higher res on phones (and on PCs kinda) and now they are following suit on tablets and laptops. Love them for that as they kind of force the competition to eventually follow suit, and once they do I'll buy from the competition.

One thing I don't like are that people are TOO rosy with Apple. Yea, they aren't the shittiest and they do try to innovate a little, but eventually, once the competition catches up, it's miles better


----------



## AphexDreamer (Sep 3, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> You're criticizing Apple based on their business ethics, yet you support every other company that does the same thing. They're on top of a pile of shit, but they're still on top.
> 
> 
> 
> What does Asus charge for their TF700T? Probably less than half of what an iPad costs right? Oh wait, they want $500 for it. Hmm... that price seems to ring a bell...



You keep putting words in my mouth. Not once did I give my support for any other company.  Yes I'm criticizing apple and you for the reasons you praise them.
And I do regret purchasing this card, I was young and naive when I bought it. Live and learn...


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 3, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Right, because Apple is the only company that doesn't manufacture devices in America. Where is Google's Nexus 7 tablet made? Where are Dell, HP, Gateway, etc computers built? And where are the hundreds of stores filled with American employees of the aforementioned brands that you seem to be completely fine with?


Systemax are made in the USA (Fletcher, OH, unless it is a rugged model then they are built in Fremont, CA).  I only buy laptops anymore (build desktops, HTPCs, and servers) and every single one I bought (two and acounting) were Systemax.


----------



## Frick (Sep 3, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Systemax are made in the USA (Fletcher, OH, unless it is a rugged model then they are built in Fremont, CA).  I only buy laptops anymore (build desktops, HTPCs, and servers) and every single one I bought (two and acounting) were Systemax.



Just how much those are made in the US? Are they just assembled there or do they make cards etc as well?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 3, 2012)

Obviously, most computer components (CPUs, memory, video cards, chips, motherboards) are built outside the USA (mostly Taiwan, China, Malaysia, and Singapore).  I do believe the cases are made in the USA (only component that really can be).  They are assembled, supported, and repaired in the USA.


----------



## Frick (Sep 3, 2012)

n-ster said:


> If you are using it as an e-reader or just like another tablet, perhaps not.



Actually the high resolution is great for reading to, or any content. More detailed text, less eyestrain. As a commenter saidwhere (it sound cheesy but i agree): you come much closer to the content.


----------



## purecain (Sep 3, 2012)

Wow... Im going to refrain from getting stuck into the point of this thread as i'd surely be banned from a great forum. 

please can we get a mod in to delete this crap. 

Its a blatent attempt to troll the forum. 

Ive been building pc's for +15yrs and apple just get worse and worse. 

Imo we should ban anyone who starts an i love apple thread. lol ok thats a bit harsh.... 

apple are fine if you dont mind wasting money as you will be charged a premium in most cases for a shiney white box and obselete hardware... 

looks like their customer service has been exemplary in this case and for that i am pleased for Kantastic...


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 3, 2012)

purecain said:


> Wow... Im going to refrain from getting stuck into the point of this thread as i'd surely be banned from a great forum.
> 
> please can we get a mod in to delete this crap.
> 
> ...



We should also ban every single user who has also started "I hate company X and Y because they screwed me on my RMA" threads too. Those guys are all blatant trolls since you don't share their opinion. 




FordGT90Concept said:


> Systemax are made in the USA (Fletcher, OH, unless it is a rugged model then they are built in Fremont, CA).  I only buy laptops anymore (build desktops, HTPCs, and servers) and every single one I bought (two and acounting) were Systemax.



GASP! YOU BUY ASIAN-MADE LAPTOP COMPONENTS? BLASPHEMY! BLASPHEMY I SAY!!!


----------



## Super XP (Sep 3, 2012)

Apple = Overpriced Products that greatly lack quality all inside a pretty shell to manipulate the unexpected consumer's. Apple can pound dirt as far as I am concerned.


----------



## Aquinus (Sep 3, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Apple = Overpriced Products that greatly lack quality all inside a pretty shell to manipulate the unexpected consumer's.



I've never personally had an issue with any of the Macs I've managed for work. The only time Apple has failed me is when the end user is an idiot and does something stupid. Like drop it or spill a drink on (in) it. I've had many fewer issues with Apple than any other manufacturer. Pardon me for saying this, but there is a lot more hate for Apple than what is actually warranted. If you don't like the price, then don't buy it, but unless you've owned an Apple laptop (recently) don't go bashing their laptops because I find that my MBA is just as responsive as my skt2011 desktop. It might not have the same graphic capability but it does everything (with the exception of games,) just as well as my tower.

So I don't know about the rest of you, but I've been happy with the last two Apple laptops I've used for work in the last couple years.


----------



## purecain (Sep 3, 2012)

hmm let me see, tech community forum.... 

tech community gets consistantly ripped off by apple....

someone posts how good apple are.... 0_o

the only thing apple are good at is marketing...! they just sold you 3 defective devices and you still couldnt contain yourself...

you just had to post it here....jing digga dinga dinga ding... 

obviously im not saying dont do it or you cant do it... just that its a little trollish...

thats all... 

oh and never lose your sense of humor...


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 3, 2012)

purecain said:


> tech community gets consistantly ripped off by apple....



No sir, you can only be ripped off by Apple if you choose to buy their products. I believe the majority of the tech community avoids Apple like a plague, immune from getting ripped off. Those who brave the waters and get Apple usually find them reasonably satisfactory, indeed even similar to "non Apple" goods. However, these pioneers are almost universally subjected to humiliating punishments by the rather xenophobic tech community. Castigated by the said community, these adventurers left the community for good, giving the most zealous preachers space to preach their poison.

Now only trolls populate the once great forum, shutting out other opinions with communist efficiency.


----------



## Frick (Sep 3, 2012)

Sigh, I'm actually pretty proud of this thread. Apart from a few zings here and there the discussion is surprisingly level.


----------



## Kreij (Sep 3, 2012)

This thread was started about customer service.
No more, no less.
Not about value, not about quality ... just customer service.

The only trolling going on is those who are trying to turn it into a "I hate Apple" thread.

Keep it on the topic of customer service or GTFO.


----------



## erixx (Sep 3, 2012)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ongs-downloaded-iTunes.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

I didn't want to start a new thread... It is related to the damn "geniuses", DRM, and so on... If I ever be tempted to buy apple, their customer service is not the real issue, it is their mandatory i-Tunes... which can stay "Lonely tunes" forever as I will never ever install it... while being a free man.


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 3, 2012)

erixx said:


> it is their mandatory i-Tunes... which can stay "Lonely tunes" forever as I will never ever install it... while being a free man.



How is iTunes mandatory? I have never touched iTunes on Macs, and only use it to upload music to my iPod


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 3, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Right, because Apple is the only company that doesn't manufacture devices in America. Where is Google's Nexus 7 tablet made? Where are Dell, HP, Gateway, etc computers built? And where are the hundreds of stores filled with American employees of the aforementioned brands that you seem to be completely fine with?



Apples products are assembled in China, and you can tell because the quality of how its all built is poopy. Not to mention they treat the people who are building their products and supplying them the components(Samsung) like shit.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 3, 2012)

purecain said:


> hmm let me see, tech community forum....
> 
> tech community gets consistantly ripped off by apple....
> 
> ...



You sir, are the best troll. You're a closet Apple fan but you can't seem to bring yourself to admit the reality of who you are. It's okay, cases like yours are why cases like mine exist. I speak on your behalf so you can continue your facade of ignorance in order to fit in with the majority of the forum. 



MxPhenom 216 said:


> Apples shit is all China, and you can tell because the quality is poopy. Not to mention they treat the people who are building their products and supplying them the components(Samsung) like shit.



Excuse my French, but this is a fucking joke right? I would be laughing on the floor right now if I didn't think you were actually serious. You honestly believe, in your tiny little world where Apple is the embodiment Satan and every other company are glowing angels with halos, that the Apple-Samsung relationship is strictly one-sided, and that Samsung is _forced_ to do business with Apple by some holy spiritual voodoo Satanic magic? 




erixx said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ongs-downloaded-iTunes.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
> 
> I didn't want to start a new thread... It is related to the damn "geniuses", DRM, and so on... If I ever be tempted to buy apple, their customer service is not the real issue, it is their mandatory i-Tunes... which can stay "Lonely tunes" forever as I will never ever install it... while being a free man.



Have you read the ToS for Google Play?


----------



## Depth (Sep 3, 2012)

n-ster said:


> stop trying to compare the unique Ipad 3rd Gen to anything. It's UNIQUE
> 
> It is special,noone else has anything like it.



So why does everyone get sued over it?


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 3, 2012)

Depth said:


> So why does everyone get sued over it?



Who?


----------



## WhiteLotus (Sep 3, 2012)

Because god forbid that apple compete!


----------



## erixx (Sep 3, 2012)

I dont like apps, I dont like google, dont like i-Quits.... I dont like Web 2.0 at all... Nothing like forums, usenet and so on 

I am a Kindle user and I wonder what I can do with it apart from reading it, little options... Timidly paper tigers like Steam are allowing to "resell" I believe... but it is ALL a "void" business model... No soul at all, no permanent value, nothing comes close to that old stereo turntable that still works with my daddies LP's of the WWII era...

Like Marilyn Manson says we are so expandable... just numbers, just "customers" of "geniouses", so sad... that we are discussing about brands, which in the end are all NOTHING


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 4, 2012)

WhiteLotus said:


> Because god forbid that apple compete!



Apple doesn't compete lol. THey release a product, another company attempts to release a better one, and then Apple sues them for it rather then release another product to compete with the competitors better product.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 4, 2012)

erixx said:


> I dont like apps, I dont like google, dont like i-Quits.... I dont like Web 2.0 at all... Nothing like forums, usenet and so on
> 
> I am a Kindle user and I wonder what I can do with it apart from reading it, little options... Timidly paper tigers like Steam are allowing to "resell" I believe... but it is ALL a "void" business model... No soul at all, no permanent value, nothing comes close to that old stereo turntable that still works with my daddies LP's of the WWII era...
> 
> Like Marilyn Manson says we are so expandable... just numbers, just "customers" of "geniouses", so sad... that we are discussing about brands, which in the end are all NOTHING



I hope you've read the ToS for your Kindle and all of the ebooks you own.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 4, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Yeah seriously. I don't like Albert Einstein worked in a little store.



Well when I was in high school I was tested to have a 146 IQ. Thats borderline genius if I remember correctly.....yet I paint pretty little pictures for t-shirts now. So I guess if you wear a shirt I designed you can say "My shirt was designed by a borderline genius". Much cooler then going to an Apple care "genius".


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 4, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Well when I was in high school I was tested to have a 146 IQ. Thats borderline genius if I remember correctly.....yet I paint pretty little pictures for t-shirts now. So I guess if you wear a shirt I designed you can say "My shirt was designed by a borderline genius". Much cooler then going to an Apple care "genius".



How many years ago was high school, and what is your most recent IQ test score?



MxPhenom 216 said:


> Apple doesn't compete lol. THey release a product, another company attempts to release a better one, and then Apple sues them for it rather then release another product to compete with the competitors better product.



So tell me more about your tiny little world where Apple is the embodiment of Satan and every other company is represented by bright, glowing angels? Or are you going to flat-out ignore me because you have nothing else to say?


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 4, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> How many years ago was high school, and what is your most recent IQ test score?



15 years and a lot of drugs and STD's ago......why?


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 4, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> 15 years and a lot of drugs and STD's ago......why?



Just wondering why you didn't go back to school and get a degree for something that's actually useful. I know a recently-divorced 50-year old woman at my college taking both chemistry and physics at the same time to knock off pre-reqs in order to be a physical therapist.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 4, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Just wondering why you didn't go back to school and get a degree for something that's actually useful. I know a recently-divorced 50-year old woman at my college taking both chemistry and physics at the same time to knock off pre-reqs for physical therapy.



Because I'm not a recently-divorced 50-year old woman on the prowl for 20-something pee pee?


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 4, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Just wondering why you didn't go back to school and get a degree for something that's actually useful. I know a recently-divorced 50-year old woman at my college taking both chemistry and physics at the same time to knock off pre-reqs in order to be a physical therapist.



coolstorybro. But don't talk shit about someones degree when you don't even have one yet.


----------



## m1dg3t (Sep 4, 2012)

146 is not borderline genius, and is limited to a VERY small percent of the population.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 4, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Because I'm not a recently-divorced 50-year old woman on the prowl for 20-something pee pee?



I expected nothing more from you. 



MxPhenom 216 said:


> coolstorybro. But don't talk shit about someones degree when you don't even have one yet.



Ignored x3! You're so good at only reading what you want to read and ignoring everything else. It's no lie that liberal arts majors are a dime a dozen. My sister was an English major from a prestigious university and she's making almost nothing. The good thing is that she'll be in medical school soon so her salary will increase exponentially after 4-6 years. There's nothing wrong with being a liberal arts major, just don't complain if you feel like you're potential was wasted or you're not living the standard of life you thought you would having a college degree.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 4, 2012)

m1dg3t said:


> 146 is not borderline genius, and is limited to a VERY small percent of the population.



Depends on the test and yes I know its a very small percentile of the population. I don't suspect my mind is anywhere close to that now. When I was in high school I was taking basic aeronautical engineering prepping for a career in the field. Now I'm just happy to still wake up with wood.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 4, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Because I'm not a recently-divorced 50-year old woman on the prowl for 20-something pee pee?


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 4, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Depends on the test and yes I know its a very small percentile of the population. I don't suspect my mind is anywhere close to that now. When I was in high school I was taking basic aeronautical engineering prepping for a career in the field. Now I'm just happy to still wake up with wood.



If your IQ was actually 146, you'd still be well within the norm, maybe even on the higher end of the intelligence spectrum. That is, unless you find yourself not knowing how to brush your teeth in the morning or whether you pee in the sink or the toilet.


----------



## m1dg3t (Sep 4, 2012)

146IQ would put you roughly in the top 1% of the population, globaly. I don't see that.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 4, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> I expected nothing more from you.
> 
> 
> 
> Ignored x3! You're so good at only reading what you want to read and ignoring everything else. It's no lie that liberal arts majors are a dime a dozen. My sister was an English major from a prestigious university and she's making almost nothing. The good thing is that she'll be in medical school soon so her salary will increase exponentially after 4-6 years. There's nothing wrong with being a liberal arts major, just don't complain if you feel like you're potential was wasted or you're not living the standard of life you thought you would having a college degree.



What makes you think I didn't read what you said?


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 4, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> If your IQ was actually 146, you'd still be well within the norm, maybe even on the higher end of the intelligence spectrum. That is, unless you find yourself not knowing how to brush your teeth in the morning or whether you pee in the sink or the toilet.


 I just don't care enough at this point to be retested. Maybe when my kids leave the house and I have free time I always thought about becoming a doctor or something "respectable" But then again.......I don't care enough lol.



m1dg3t said:


> 146IQ would put you roughly in the top 1% of the population, globaly. I don't see that.


Its funny a lot of people at that time said I cheated so I ended up taking the test three times to prove them wrong within a two year period. I sucked (still suck) at formal math so bad its amazing. I'm not even mechanically inclined. However you put me into a situation where I know most the variables I can tell you how to solve the problem. I tend to think WAAAAY outside the box. Hell some of the people on TPU can tell you I'm beyond a stickler for detail. This is because of my severe OCD and the way my mind works. I work full time from home with a salary for a reason.

Anyway this thread isn't about me. Its about how awesome Apple Care is.....or isn't.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 4, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> What makes you think I didn't read what you said?



That means you have nothing to offer as a rebuttal because everything you criticize Apple for you tolerate for other companies. 



TheMailMan78 said:


> Anyway this thread isn't about me. Its about how awesome Apple Care is.....or isn't.



This thread was never about Apple Care. :shadedshu


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 4, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> That means you have nothing to offer as a rebuttal because everything you criticize Apple for you tolerate for other companies.
> 
> 
> 
> This thread was never about Apple Care. :shadedshu



Apple Care is who you called  Anyway Apple does have good service. I once dropped a laptop on the sidewalk in Honolulu and called them from a hotel room bitching about how the speaker was blown. They replaced the whole thing and honestly they were well within their right to tell me to go get bent.

Also Phenom works for MS.....honestly he does. So you are basically arguing Chevy is better then Ford with a certified Ford mechanic.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 4, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Apple Care is who you called  Anyway Apple does have good service. I once dropped a laptop on the sidewalk in Honolulu and called them from a hotel room bitching about how the speaker was blown. They replaced the whole thing and honestly they were well within their right to tell me to go get bent.
> 
> Also Phenom works for MS.....honestly he does. So you are basically arguing Chevy is better then Ford with a certified Ford mechanic.



I do, but what does that mean. Its not like this is a Microsoft vs. Apple thread. So thats irrelevant.

I'll take any product that is not Apples.

@Kantastic, Im not going to rebuttal because a lot of the things I have to say about apple have already been said about other Anti-Apple people in this thread. But regardless, what you recieved at Apple is or should be common practice for all companies out there. Nothing special. But regardless, im not going to waste anymore time with this thread. So have fun with your $800 piece of plastic.


----------



## brandonwh64 (Sep 4, 2012)

^^^

Random like this thread.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 4, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> ... They replaced the whole thing and honestly they were well within their right to tell me to go get bent.


Keep in mind that the only reason why they can do that is because they offer so few products.  Their most customizable product is the Mac Pro and it only has 6 hardware options: processors, memory, hard drives, graphics, optical drive, and optional fiber card.  A competing product from HP has too many options to count: processors, memory, hard drives, additional drive cage, additional controllers, storage controller upgrade, secondary multimedia bay, SAS tape drive, tritary multimedia bay, up to six optional cards (many choices), redundant power supply, redundant fans, TPM, and more (that's enough to get the point across).

Flexibility has the downside of not being able to walk into a store and walk out with a new replacement.  Then again, Apple has always sold appliances and not business machines like the rest of the industry.


----------



## Completely Bonkers (Sep 4, 2012)

I hear the church has pretty good customer service.


----------



## -1nf1n1ty- (Sep 4, 2012)

I am not quite sure what this thread is about anymore but from what I read,do you people mean you really just can't like both? Or is it the sort of thing where you need to like/ support one or the other? I....don't understand


----------



## cdawall (Sep 4, 2012)

I just want to throw it out there my wife owns an itouch within the first year of owning it the WiFi died. Made an appointment with the apple gods and got told to go fuck myself somehow I killed the WiFi and warranty didn't cover it. From that day on I won't buy ianything. I won a baby iPod the 24hr battery life sucks brand new I might have gotten 8hrs. It sits in a drawer and I use my 5-6 year old sansa which has a better battery life better codec support and a fm tuner.

I strongly support apple selling inferior products at a higher cost. The retina display doesn't sell me an iPhone. I will continue to use my galaxy s iii and be happy.

3 tries for a good product is bullshit. It should work out of the box no questions asked no guesswork it should just fucking work. My job as a consumer isn't to wait on appletards to fix something that should work when I open the box and turn it on. That is nonsense. Turn around time for other companies? EVGA crosshipped me 3 different 780i sli boards before I got a good one. They paid for all of the shipping and shipped overnight. I sold th one that finally worked and bought a p5q. I do not care how good customer support is if their product is shit they are shit.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 4, 2012)

cdawall said:


> I just want to throw it out there my wife owns an itouch within the first year of owning it the WiFi died. Made an appointment with the apple gods and got told to go fuck myself somehow I killed the WiFi and warranty didn't cover it. From that day on I won't buy ianything. I won a baby iPod the 24hr battery life sucks brand new I might have gotten 8hrs. It sits in a drawer and I use my 5-6 year old sansa which has a better battery life better codec support and a fm tuner.
> 
> I strongly support apple selling inferior products at a higher cost. The retina display doesn't sell me an iPhone. I will continue to use my galaxy s iii and be happy.
> 
> 3 tries for a good product is bullshit. It should work out of the box no questions asked no guesswork it should just fucking work. My job as a consumer isn't to wait on appletards to fix something that should work when I open the box and turn it on. That is nonsense. Turn around time for other companies? EVGA crosshipped me 3 different 780i sli boards before I got a good one. They paid for all of the shipping and shipped overnight. I sold th one that finally worked and bought a p5q. I do not care how good customer support is if their product is shit they are shit.



That's funny, because I just picked up a Nexus 7 at Staples for my dad (he was fascinated with my iPad ) and there's a pretty bad area of backlight leakage on the bottom-left area. Because it's not for my personal use, I'm not going to bother exchanging it for a new one. Should I boycott Google and Asus as brands now?

To the skeptics that want proof, let me know and a picture will come your way.



MxPhenom 216 said:


> So have fun with your $800 piece of plastic.



$800? EIGHT HUNDRED? EIGHT ZERO ZERO? US DOLLARS? LOL WHERE IS THE OVERSIZED BANGHEAD EMOTICON WHEN I NEED IT???

I get it now, I really do. Apple haters are going to hate regardless. Screw the facts, lets just pull shit out of our asses and go with it. 

$800 LOL


----------



## m1dg3t (Sep 4, 2012)

64GB is $719 + tax right now so, yeah... Lol

MailMan I'll get to you later


----------



## cdawall (Sep 4, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> That's funny, because I just picked up a Nexus 7 at Staples for my dad (he was fascinated with my iPad ) and there's a pretty bad area of backlight leakage on the bottom-left area. Because it's not for my personal use, I'm not going to bother exchanging it for a new one. Should I boycott Google and Asus as brands now?
> 
> To the skeptics that want proof, let me know and a picture will come your way.



I never said other companies were any better. I said I will not buy apple products because I feel for the money I can get a better product from other companies. Same way as I will never buy XFX, EVGA or Foxconn branded motherboards ever again. I have zero faith in them. 

You also are not on your third Nexus 7 bragging about staples in a thread now are you?


----------



## AsRock (Sep 4, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Stop calling them genious's. The people who work in those stores are just a bunch of Apple fanboys trained to fix that shit. They are nothing special.



Sounds like they are not fixing the shit to well.


Well as long as he's happy who cares really ..


----------



## Irony (Sep 4, 2012)

-1nf1n1ty- said:


> I am not quite sure what this thread is about anymore but from what I read,do you people mean you really just can't like both? Or is it the sort of thing where you need to like/ support one or the other? I....don't understand



Umm, its kind of like this: either you worship at steve jobs' mosoleum/shrine or you urinate on it and shoot ipads with a shotgun. Youre pretty much on one side or the other. I hope you can tell where I stand


----------



## Frick (Sep 4, 2012)

Ok the misinformation and stupidity is now quite staggering. In b4 lock?


----------



## hat (Sep 4, 2012)




----------



## SnoopKatt (Sep 4, 2012)

Online I read bad things about Apple's customer service, but just about every single person I talked to physically has been happy. Interesting phenomenon.

I'm not a big fan of Apple, and after that lawsuit over the patents, I will probably never buy an Apple product, unless it is absolutely necessary for work. Let's face it though: Apple probably has better customer service than almost any other electronics provider, and for some people, that justifies the high price. Newegg is now infamous for the bent motherboard pin scam (on most forums at least), Fry's is a joke (don't get me started on my camera story), Best Buy is good, but after 30 days you're on your own, and that's the same with just about any other retailer. For some people, the extra money is worth the peace of mind. Not me though


----------



## purecain (Sep 4, 2012)

@Kantastic....

woooo there horsy... this isnt in any way personal, its quite interesting...

i read the other day about apple customer service being trained to use special words and to avoid others...

so as to imprint an impression of quality and good value on potential consumers...

buisness insider picked up on it... http://www.businessinsider.com/how-apple-trains-store-employees-2012-6

as did buisness pundit http://www.businesspundit.com/5-giant-companies-who-brainwash-their-employees/

the leaked apple manual is online and its all there... read this... http://www.itworld.com/it-managemen...g-apple-manual-sales-training-or-brainwashing

i just want to say to kantastic that in no way did i want to offend him, probably shouldnt of used the word troll... so chill... this is a community and its important we get somewhere with this topic...

im interested to hear your oppinion on the above manual... do you not think it has affected you. you have been in contact with this customer service...did it work...???

i think it did... hay ho...


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 4, 2012)

purecain said:


> @kantastic....
> 
> woooo there horsy... this isnt in any way personal, its quite interesting...
> 
> ...



From your own link:

This is the kind of stuff you learn in any customer service course. I can't see what's so GENIUS about it. Arrogant pricks!!
dimo09 on businessinsider.com

Yep this sounds like the typical corp made bullshit training manuals pretty much every service industry job uses. I swear these things are written by suits who live in the land of make believe
Befitzero on gizmodo.com

The whitewashing of terms is actually a pretty common occurrence. I worked for HP for a while and we do not have bugs. There are no bugs, there are no defects, instead there are observations and issues.
janson0 on gizmodo.com

Do you honestly think the people that fawn all over you at those high-end boutiques really care about you when they go home at night? Of course not. But at least while you're there, they treat you like an honored guest. No different here.
Roger on businessinsider.com

In my personal experience I can tell you I would rather work for a company that cares about their customers experiences with their Customer Service/Sales/Support staff than say a company like Comcast
coolscreennamepending on gizmodo.com

one thing I've noticed is apple staff will approach and immediately engage in conversation about a product you are looking at. Far more likely to gain a positive response on my part than every other store where some numpty just goes "can I help?
Anonymous Coward on theregister.co.uk



Frick said:


> Ok the misinformation and stupidity is now quite staggering. In b4 lock?



I have guys telling me I bought an $800 piece of plastic 



cdawall said:


> I never said other companies were any better. I said I will not buy apple products because I feel for the money I can get a better product from other companies. Same way as I will never buy XFX, EVGA or Foxconn branded motherboards ever again. I have zero faith in them.
> 
> You also are not on your third Nexus 7 bragging about staples in a thread now are you?



Again, why don't you seem to be able to read? I'm not exchanging it because it's not for my own personal use. I'm nitpicky when it comes to my own gadgets, but I know it won't make an ounce of difference for my dad. 

To add to the hilarity, the Nexus 7 has been plagued with backlight issues, pixel issues, and screen lifting issues, yet it's OOS everywhere. I just can't win with the ignorant can I?


----------



## Frick (Sep 4, 2012)

purecain said:


> @kantastic....
> 
> woooo there horsy... this isnt in any way personal, its quite interesting...
> 
> ...



We've been over this already, it's how the bussiness works. Support, sales and all that. No news here.


----------



## johnspack (Sep 4, 2012)

Still don't know why anyone gets it...  get a nice fast i7,  install freebsd on it...  bam you got apple.  Why would I want a version of bsd that actually has a virus written for it?  First linux to get a virus.  Wow.....


----------



## Frick (Sep 4, 2012)

johnspack said:


> Still don't know why anyone gets it...  get a nice fast i7,  install freebsd on it...  bam you got apple.  Why would I want a version of bsd that actually has a virus written for it?  First linux to get a virus.  Wow.....



http://stason.org/TULARC/os/linux.virus.html

And no. You might as well say, install NT5 and bam you got Vista.


----------



## johnspack (Sep 4, 2012)

Oh okay,  that was a bit severe.  But still,  why not just a free version of linux?  Why pay for it,  and bootcamp?  Silly.


----------



## Frick (Sep 4, 2012)

johnspack said:


> Oh okay,  that was a bit severe.  But still,  why not just a free version of linux?  Why pay for it,  and bootcamp?  Silly.



You don't pay a whole lot. I think all of their stuff, including Server (or whatever the equivalent is) is below $40 iirc.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 4, 2012)

Frick said:


> We've been over this already, it's how the bussiness works. Support, sales and all that. No news here.


There's industry standard and then there's Apple.  I can't name any other store that puts potential retail employees through a mandatory two week training regime on interaction.

Yes, as Kreij said, some people that close major deals may use the same tactics but these are things they often learned themselves or from others in the trade, not from corporate heads pressing it on them.


----------



## Frick (Sep 4, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> There's industry standard and then there's Apple.  I can't name any other store that puts potential retail employees through a mandatory two week training regime on interaction.
> 
> Yes, as Kreij said, some people that close major deals may use the same tactics but these are things they often learned themselves or from others in the trade, not from corporate heads pressing it on them.



How about tech support and call centers? They do it, at least the "good" ones.


----------



## erixx (Sep 4, 2012)

johnspack said:


> Still don't know why anyone gets it...  get a nice fast i7,  install freebsd on it...  bam you got apple.  Why would I want a version of bsd that actually has a virus written for it?  First linux to get a virus.  Wow.....



Because it are furniture and household items, in nice soft white (or black) combining colors, does your mamma "configure" or "format" in her kitchen? 

Note: it may sound irony but it is actually their own PR policy: no more windows BSOD, no reinstalls, just turn it on and use it lady!


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 4, 2012)

Frick said:


> You don't pay a whole lot. I think all of their stuff, including Server (or whatever the equivalent is) is below $40 iirc.


That's only for updates (which Microsoft would offer for free in the form of Service Packs).  They don't sell complete operating systems that can be installed on any computer like Windows.




Frick said:


> How about tech support and call centers? They do it, at least the "good" ones.


No tech support I talked to tried to blatantly defend their product(s) like the Apple bible orders employees to do.  All tech support I've ever talked to are solution oriented: "what is your problem" and "this is the policy of the company in dealing with your problem."  I've had many tech support reps sympathize with my situation which is forbidden in the Apple bible.


----------



## DannibusX (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm not going to delve any deeper than the first few comments in this thread, because I predict debauchery within.

I have 2 iPods, a second gen and a third gen and they're fantastic, never had a problem whatsoever.  I've had them for years and I love them, plain and simple.

I'm also very pleased to hear that Apple's customer service has been top notch for you, that's one of the biggest selling points for products in my mind.  I'm pretty shocked that you got 3 defective products in a row from Apple though, Apple's pretty well known for releasing top-notch high quality stuff and I'd be pissed for receiving 3 devices in a row that were defective, regardless of the excellent customer service.

To each his own though, I'm sure there's a lot of hate for Apple in this thread.  I'm not exactly a hater, but I own a patent-infringing, ban-requested Samsung Galaxy S2 and it's one of the greatest pieces of hardware I have ever purchased.  I hate the amount of litigation there is in the industry, and I won't be buying Apple products in the future because of it.  If I have to "upgrade" to a Nokia Skullcrusher then so be it.

Hope your newest iPad works out for you!


----------



## HTC (Sep 4, 2012)

erixx said:


> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ongs-downloaded-iTunes.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
> 
> I didn't want to start a new thread... It is related to the damn "geniuses", DRM, and so on... If I ever be tempted to buy apple, their customer service is not the real issue, it is their mandatory i-Tunes... which can stay "Lonely tunes" forever as I will never ever install it... while being a free man.



I've seen this in IMDB a few days ago. Personally, i'm stunned: i had no idea it was like this and am surprised people even buy itunes knowing the tunes revert to apple when they die.

This means people don't buy the itunes: they just rent it for as long as they live. How on earth do people even put up with this kind of crap?


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 4, 2012)

HTC said:


> I've seen this in IMDB a few days ago. Personally, i'm stunned: i had no idea it was like this and am surprised people even buy itunes knowing the tunes revert to apple when they die.
> 
> This means people don't buy the itunes: they just rent it for as long as they live. How on earth do people even put up with this kind of crap?



You will have to ask the entertainment industry for an answer. Its the same for almost all online distributors, from Steam to Amazon.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 4, 2012)

If the question is DRM, the inevitable answer is RIAA (music) and/or MPAA (video).

Apple was the first major publisher to negotiate a deal with the RIAA to allow them to distribute digital music.  RIAA, and competitors, saw the money in it and quickly opened the door to others like Walmart, Amazon, and Microsoft (via Zune Marketplace).  Some, like Walmart and Amazon, were selling DRM-free downloads and Apple started losing business.  Apple switched to DRM-free downloads  in order to compete.

Recently, the RIAA has been pushing updated licenses which require device authorizations even for DRM-free downloads.  It's not as effective as what iTunes started out with but the RIAA is still trying to take ownership of all digital music through licensing instead of DRM.  It has already impacted Amazon and, if it hasn't yet, it soon will impact the rest of them.

Anyway...that's off topic.


----------



## phanbuey (Sep 4, 2012)

I think that the people here that say apple products are low quality have never owned one.

The software and DRM issues are another issue.  All companies have their issues and any company the size of apple that sells anything is in the same boat. 

But at least with apple you do get what you pay for.  The quality of the hardware and support is top notch, as is the resale value - once you are done with whatever product you bought you can resell it for wayyy higher than a competing product.


----------



## erixx (Sep 4, 2012)

Good point (resell value)... A friend of mine only buys used Apple bargains...

Now, in all fairness, Mrs. Willis denied today that her husband will take legal actions.... We will see...

Finally, found this one, would be a perfect end to this big mac thread... 

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/382781/business-casual-g-men


----------



## KainXS (Sep 4, 2012)

after a macbook I had was returned with another non working unit then denied for the non working unit, I never bought a mac tablet/computer again, but I did buy a ipod/iphone and they are nice but too restricted, but they are nice for a casusal user.

suprised its not dead yet !


----------



## HTC (Sep 4, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> You will have to ask the entertainment industry for an answer. Its the same for almost all online distributors, from Steam to Amazon.



Soon, DVDs / blurays / whatever-other-video-format will follow the same "deal".

What's next: software? Cars? Houses?


IMO, this is a VERY dangerous precedent.


----------



## Wrigleyvillain (Sep 4, 2012)

KainXS said:


> after a macbook I had was returned with another non working unit then denied for the non working unit, I never bought a mac tablet/computer again, but I did buy a ipod/iphone and they are nice but too restricted, but they are nice for a casusal user.
> 
> suprised its not dead yet !



It's a computer; such will happen. The last decade, at least, Macs have been both well-designed and well-built. Say they are overpriced, fine, but you can't say they are low quality in any way.

I still have a couple near ten-year-old G4 towers and original Cinema Displays at work that are still going strong.


----------



## rmfa (Sep 4, 2012)

Awesome experience.  I've had this same luck with Apple too, amazing company!  Btw, the light leak around the edges goes away after about 10 days of solid use.  The rumor around the internet is that the glue is drying or something.


----------



## the54thvoid (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm an unashamed Apple-o-phobe but my reasons are complex.

I've always said Apple sell great gadgets.  And i firmly believe they used to sell bomb proof pretty damn well solid products.  I think of late they may have slipped a little with QC but I'd say the Apple focus has always been on solid design.

Most other companies in tech sell many, many products and when you diversify your empire too much, you always lose the quality.  Apple stick to (in relative terms) a few core items and they spend their focus trying to make them perfect for 'their' consumers.

Why do I say 'their' consumers, well because Apple sell a product image more than a product itself.  Ask the lay person about a quality smartphone and they'll say Apple first.  Ironically the recent Samsung v Apple press has probably made Samsung more globally known.  I'd happily argue that Apple definitely do not make the best smartphone.  They do make the best tablet overall mind you (not that I'd buy one - I have no need for such a toy, from any brand).

But what the OP has expressed is what the Apple business model is all about.  Their product (no matter what we think of it as techies) is irrelevant.  It is the synergy Apple marketing create between someones desire and the product they sell. In other words Apple start by saying you want a really great product don't you?  Well, we happen to make such a thing, would you like to try it?

Other companies sell their product first and then say, do you want one?  Apple work on the marketing aspect so completely that they have created their loyal user base.  It has been Apple's (on the whole) consumer (arguably manipulated) focus that has garnered them the incredible support (sometimes blind*) and image they now have.

You don't get to be the worlds most profitable business without selling a good product and without having a brilliant consumer focus.  Oh, not forgetting a fucking ruthless business approach that lurks behind the pretty facade.

Let me explain sometimes blind* - I know people that wait for the next iphone and dont even look to other competitors.  To me that's insane.  I always shop around for the best gadgets and then check out a myriad of reviews.  Brand loyalty is great but if we all followed the same brand 24/7, we may as well all live in pre capitalist China.  Informed choice is a gift.  Use it.

Yeah, lay of Kant for expressing his appreciation of Apple.  That's why Apple is so popular - extremely focused customer service even when a product is average.

And Kant, many people don't want to use Apple products and that is their choice - doesn't make someone a 'hater'. It's their informed choice.


----------



## Frick (Sep 4, 2012)

the54thvoid said:


> I'm an unashamed Apple-o-phobe but my reasons are complex.
> 
> I've always said Apple sell great gadgets.  And i firmly believe they used to sell bomb proof pretty damn well solid products.  I think of late they may have slipped a little with QC but I'd say the Apple focus has always been on solid design.
> 
> ...



To be honest everything nowadays is about lifestyles, not actual products. Like that horrible "Because you're worth it" campaign that company (make up products iirc) had. It sells an idea. It's what advertising is about, make people believe a product is an essential part of their life, even before they have it. All companies do that, Apple made the dream come true.

And in a perfect world everyone would know everything so we'd always made informed choices. But it's not physically possible to do that, and most people aren't interested enough to do it anyway. Most people just want to talk to someone, sign something and/or hand over some money and be done with it. The people I know with iPads have no clue what generation it is (most of them). Ask them about "Retina" and they go blank. Is it a fault? I dunno.


----------



## KainXS (Sep 4, 2012)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> It's a computer; such will happen. The last decade, at least, Macs have been both well-designed and well-built. Say they are overpriced, fine, but you can't say they are low quality in any way.
> 
> I still have a couple near ten-year-old G4 towers and original Cinema Displays at work that are still going strong.



I said nothing about pricing for one.

your saying its alright to send back a working mac book thats overheating
get a dead one back
apple doesn't take dead one back(they said I broke it in one day)

you serious . . . . . . .

PS if you have any apple devices make sure your udid has not been leaked, mine has, retard hackers again:shadedshu
http://pastehtml.com/udid


----------



## the54thvoid (Sep 4, 2012)

Frick said:


> ...Most people just want to talk to someone, sign something and/or hand over some money and be done with it...



Not my girlfriend.  She's financially astute!  And I'm a researching whore.


----------



## Frick (Sep 4, 2012)

the54thvoid said:


> Not my girlfriend.  She's financially astute!  And I'm a researching whore.



If you have the time for it, good.


----------



## purecain (Sep 4, 2012)

so if anything we learned, 

1.apple are one of the best at marketing their product to joe public.

2.they are so good at convincing you that they are able to sell an overpriced product.WOW!!!

3.the support is hit and miss. like many other companies.

4.you look like the boss with your white apple iphone and your big white apple laptop and your white apple desktop... and especially when your walking round with a white apple ipad... 

your just the guy who spent more money than he needed to. convinced by apple's marketing you got the best...

you simply bought into the image apple projected into you... IMO

i actually like their ipad, but id rather have an asus transformer anyday...

this is how i see it... i would probably see it very differantly if i let an apple employee verbally throw their manual at me... as it is designed to 'convince' me...

no disrespect intended to anyone, especially you kant...


----------



## Depth (Sep 4, 2012)

purecain said:


> 2.they are so good at convincing you that they are able to sell an overpriced product.WOW!!!



I think the correct term is "You get more for your money"


----------



## D007 (Sep 4, 2012)

ROFLMFAO.. This is a troll post right? It has to be.. There is no way you are commending apple when everything you buy from them has been broken.. No one could be that dense..


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 4, 2012)

D007 said:


> ROFLMFAO.. This is a troll post right? It has to be.. There is no way you are commending apple when everything you buy from them has been broken.. No one could be that dense..



He was commending their service rather than the product. Never been treated better by any other company, which is why he is so pleased. Why did you not read the entire post?


----------



## D007 (Sep 4, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> He was commending their service rather than the product. Never been treated better by any other company, which is why he is so pleased. Why did you not read the entire post?



I did but if you sell me 3 broken items, I could care less about your customer service.. I am billed out at 75-150 dollars an hour.. Me taking 3 trips to apple, means I'd of paid 2 times the cost of the product, just in the time I spent going there and dealing with their wait times.. Customer service does not mean you get to make products, that sell with such a high damaged rate. Unless you're apple, I guess..  Just proves you could polish a turd and put an apple logo on it and some "genius" would buy it..


----------



## n-ster (Sep 4, 2012)

They weren't damaged FOR FUCKS SAKE READ GOD DAMN IT... IT WAS JUST LESS THAN PERFECT WITH BACKLIGHT BLEED ETC

Kantastic was just picky, as is his right. If you want to present a case against Apple, do it correctly


And im no Apple fan, but I want a civil discussion with a somewhat factual base at least


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 4, 2012)

D007 said:


> I did but if you sell me 3 broken items, I could care less about your customer service.. I am billed out at 75-150 dollars an hour.. Me taking 3 trips to apple, means I'd of paid 2 times the cost of the product, just in the time I spent going there and dealing with their wait times.. Customer service does not mean you get to make products, that sell with such a high damaged rate. Unless you're apple, I guess..  Just proves you could polish a turd and put an apple logo on it and some "genius" would buy it..



Well he didn't become a fan because of the product, he became a fan because of the service. Perfectly fine with me, not sure about you. Yes I would get mad too if I keep on getting defective goods, but in this case its entirely Kant's fault for not thoroughly checking the product for defects before leaving the store, hence the multiple trips.


----------



## D007 (Sep 4, 2012)

n-ster said:


> They weren't damaged FOR FUCKS SAKE READ GOD DAMN IT... IT WAS JUST LESS THAN PERFECT WITH BACKLIGHT BLEED ETC
> 
> Kantastic was just picky, as is his right. If you want to present a case against Apple, do it correctly
> 
> ...



Lol get mad much? No need to fly off the handle and start spewing profanity like a sailor.. You want a civil discussion, talk in a civil manner..

I'm backing out of this topic. I can see the fanboy flames starting to fly..


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 4, 2012)

D007 said:


> Lol get mad much? No need to fly off the handle and start spewing profanity like a sailor.. You want a civil discussion, talk in a civil manner..
> 
> I'm backing out of this topic. I can see the fanboy flames starting to fly..



Its pretty hard to be civil after 10 pages of trying to restore order 

No, fanboy and hate flames have already burnt this thread to the ground a few times over, and legit people are getting sick of those behaviours. That includes post numbers 237 and 239, even if you don't mean it.


----------



## n-ster (Sep 4, 2012)

And people keep repeating the same argument and Kan keeps on telling them its cuz hes picky. Im in a bad mood, yea, so this kind of stuff just gets to me for now

Im not an Apple fanboy, I think Apple is shitty and I don't agree with Kantastic, but on every page its the same thing, this thread could have been a third ofvl the length without these repeating pointless roundabout arguments.

Then people try to compare Apples to Ice cream sandwiches and jellybeans , but the sugar aint the same. Fructose (264 ppi screen etc) isnt the same as sugar ( more power for cheaper but worse screen)


----------



## cdawall (Sep 4, 2012)

n-ster said:


> They weren't damaged FOR FUCKS SAKE READ GOD DAMN IT... IT WAS JUST LESS THAN PERFECT WITH BACKLIGHT BLEED ETC
> 
> Kantastic was just picky, as is his right. If you want to present a case against Apple, do it correctly
> 
> ...



Then what were they? What do YOU call a product with dead pixels, a bad spot on the screen and poor fit and finish?


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 4, 2012)

cdawall said:


> What do YOU call a product with dead pixels,


Mass production Retina display is still pretty cutting edge, its not as easy to prevent dead pixels as of now. Outdated QC also probably played a part.



cdawall said:


> a bad spot on the screen


This is poor QC, no excuses



cdawall said:


> and poor fit and finish?


Fit and finish was fine, just Kant being a perfectionist. It was not noticeable until he turned off all the lights


----------



## n-ster (Sep 4, 2012)

I call that stuff that happens and should be checked at the store when getting the replacement. 
My Google nexus has a pinkish Hue in low brightness, very common problem. Yet it is one of the most popular phones. People correctly gave it slack because it was a 720p screen on a phone and is AMOLED, new tech will have problems. When 2TB drive just came out, their failure rate was over 2x that of their 1TB counterparts a lot of the time. When you are buying new tech, you have to expect a few bumps in the road as you are the guinea pig

And anyways, the average customer doesn't notice this kind of thing:

I bought my cousin a laptop. he didn't notice for months that there was a stuck green pixel right in the center on a 13XX x 768 screen. I know a lot of people who barely ever clean there screens etc so for them something like a spec under the glass would go unnoticed for sure

We are not normal customers, we are picky. Kantastic is even more as 3/4 of us wouldn't have noticed the backlight bleed.

But yea, their QC could be better, I'm just frustrated with something in real life and irrationally venting it here too lol, sorry. Should probably calm down a little and deal with life instead of venting my frustration


----------



## cdawall (Sep 4, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> Mass production Retina display is still pretty cutting edge, its not as easy to prevent dead pixels as of now. Outdated QC also probably played a part.


It's also a Samsung product now. 326PPI vs 313PPI on something like my phone that's all of 5%...It isn't that super anymore...


Fourstaff said:


> Fit and finish was fine, just Kant being a perfectionist. It was not noticeable until he turned off all the lights


Perfectionist or not it was still bad fit and finish. Especially seeing how the next one was fine.


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 4, 2012)

cdawall said:


> It's also a Samsung product now. 326PPI vs 313PPI on something like my phone that's all of 5%...It isn't that super anymore...



Yup, your phone is less than 5" and we all know that producing a nice big piece of defect free screen gets exponentially harder as silicon size increases. I have not seen or heard the reject rates for these screens compared to others so I am not in a position to further defend what I posted. 



cdawall said:


> Perfectionist or not it was still bad fit and finish. Especially seeing how the next one was fine.



Every product will need to satisfy a minimum standard of quality before being accepted, and when production cannot outrun demand the standard decreases. In this case, decreased enough for most people not to care but too much so that Kantastic cared. Another alternative is to raise price and damp demand.


----------



## cdawall (Sep 4, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> Yup, your phone is less than 5" and we all know that producing a nice big piece of defect free screen gets exponentially harder as silicon size increases. I have not seen or heard the reject rates for these screens compared to others so I am not in a position to further defend what I posted.



The 3.5" Iphone screen has the same issues as was described by kant...my screen is 4.8" and issue free without backlight bleed even after dropping it recently.

All I was trying to prove was apple is not god nor the products they produce. As I said I have had my share of issues with them and chose to go with another product. Not say apple has good customer support 3 bad products later.


----------



## Irony (Sep 4, 2012)

Whoo, this pointless thread has passed 250 posts!


----------



## n-ster (Sep 4, 2012)

Irony said:


> Whoo, this pointless thread has passed 250 posts!



it only past 250 post because of YOUR pointless post

and yea, I don't get why people keep saying Apple's products are super high quality etc I find them average


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 4, 2012)

n-ster said:


> it only past 250 post because of YOUR pointless post
> 
> and yea, I don't get why people keep saying Apple's products are super high quality etc



They are not, quality wise Apple's products are just slight slightly better than your run of the mill stuff especially the laptops.


----------



## n-ster (Sep 4, 2012)

Yea but comparing Apple to stuff like mid or low end Dells or something like that, then obviously it won't be the same quality. Compare the MBA to say, the X1 Carbon, now tell me how the Carbon isn't better


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 4, 2012)

n-ster said:


> Yea but comparing Apple to stuff like mid or low end Dells or something like that, then obviously it won't be the same quality. Compare the MBA to say, the X1 Carbon, now tell me how the Carbon isn't better



Now then if you compare X1 Carbon(£1012 version) and the MBA 13" (£999) you get more or less the same specs. I am not sure if Carbon's build quality is any better than MBA 13's, but I think its sufficient to say that you are not shortchanged by buying Apple's ultrabook compared to the competitors. However people like to whine about how Apple stuff are way overpriced, which doesn't really make sense to me other than the stupid "upgrades" which you can do yourself anyway.


----------



## n-ster (Sep 4, 2012)

X1 Carbon has carbon fiber, a 14" screen in 13" body and much better build quality IMO (military certified or wtv) and I can get it for about 1000$ flat. The 13" MBA is 1200$ but I can prob find it at 1100$ or so

Apple products now basically do everything they can to limit changing batteries, hard to access RAM etc


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 4, 2012)

n-ster said:


> X1 Carbon has carbon fiber, a 14" screen in 13" body and much better build quality IMO (military certified or wtv) and I can get it for about 1000$ flat. The 13" MBA is 1200$ but I can prob find it at 1100$ or so
> 
> Apple products now basically do everything they can to limit changing batteries, hard to access RAM etc



Don't see how carbon fibre is any better than aluminium unibody. Different, but not sure how much better. Screen quality the Carbon has a matte screen, so victory goes there. As for battery charging and hard to access ram your usual computer user (50+%) will not have a need to access those, so for most users its a non issue.

As for the price I am not sure why Apple commands a premium over the Carbon in US, its basically the same here.


----------



## 95Viper (Sep 4, 2012)

Me, personally, I don't care what you (people in general) own/want.
Me, myself, and I won't be buying Apple products in this lifetime.

I am just glad Kantastic is happy!

Found a interesting page @ Intel... here is a quote from Intel and their take on "PC vs Mac: The Big Debate":


> Since PCs and Macs hit the market, the debate has existed over which is best. Depending upon who you're talking to the PC vs. Mac debate is often even hotter than politics or religion. While you have many who are die hard Microsoft PC users, another group exists that are just as dedicated to Apple's Mac*. A final group exists in the undecided computer category.



Enjoy your choice, Kan.
And, nice thread, I have enjoyed it, but it is time to move on for me.


----------



## n-ster (Sep 5, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> Don't see how carbon fibre is any better than aluminium unibody. Different, but not sure how much better. Screen quality the Carbon has a matte screen, so victory goes there. As for battery charging and hard to access ram your usual computer user (50+%) will not have a need to access those, so for most users its a non issue.
> 
> As for the price I am not sure why Apple commands a premium over the Carbon in US, its basically the same here.



thing I hate about the Carbon is that RAM and SSD is not upgreadable, many ultrabooks are going for that now 

The battery thing was more for their normal laptops, phones, iPods etc, RAM is for the MBP for example. Yea for most users, but anyone who is not even techy but a little handy, ie: a lot of dads etc DO think about changing RAM. They wouldn't dare do it on a Mac

The carbon fiber def feels better to me, seems sturdier idk. and technically it is much stronger than aluminum


----------



## hat (Sep 5, 2012)

Pah, most users _still_ don't understand the difference between system memory and hard drive space.


----------



## n-ster (Sep 5, 2012)

most people ask me to buy their computer so they don't have to xD maybe I should charge them for choosing for them lmao


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 5, 2012)

Thanks for those who spent a few minutes reading my OP and my first few posts to realize that my new found loyalty towards Apple is based primarily on their customer service. I'll roughly summarize (note summarize, because everything has already been said, but mostly disregarded since them haters don't have anything as rebuttals) this thread. I may miss some key points, but forgive me if I do.

I've addressed those criticizing the fact that I had to make an appointment and wait if I was late for the iPad to be inspected before replacing multiple times throughout the thread. To those who read it and ignored it, my point has been made. To those who read it and denied it as a legitimate reason, well, I can't change ignorance can I?

I've also addressed the common complaint that Apple demands an industry-high premium for its iPad when many competing products offer "similar" quality screens and better hardware. At the end of the day, iOS is extremely optimized for the hardware it runs on, so the user experience does not come up short to any Android offering despite the X amount of CPU cores and XX amount of GPU cores that said Android tablets have. I'm rather speaking specifically of my dad's new Nexus 7. It boasts a quad core processor and a 12 core GPU, but it's not smoother than my iPad is. Apple's laptops are also the epitome of perfection, with a dead-accurate trackpad and a surprisingly well designed keyboard for the form factor that comparable brands like Asus and Lenovo can only hope to get close to. Well, maybe Lenovo has already gotten there since their ThinkPad keyboards are amazing. There's a reason so many ultrabooks resemble the Macbook Air, but I'll leave that to your own interpretation since I know what I say will be ignored and responded to with a simple, "APPLE SUCKS!!!" remark.

Why do people pay premium for mechanical keyboards and ergonomic gaming mice anyway? Because those devices are such an integral part of computing that they are imperative to a positive user experience. Apple understands that concept and delivered exactly that in their products. Did I debate between the Asus Zenbook Prime and the Apple Macbook Air for weeks? Of course! The Zenbook's 13.3", LED-backlit, 1080P IPS screen made me drool, but what's a good screen going to do when it's being paired with an operating system that fails to properly resize text? And for one reason or another, the trackpad on the Zenbook also leaves much to be desired, with many multi-finger gestures being more a marketing gimmick than anything actually functional. I guess that's one of the benefits of being able to control both hardware and software aspects of a product or products. People who value user experience over a spec sheet will agree with me.

Apple's Geniuses may or may not be actual geniuses like TheMailMan78 , but that is what they're called and that is what I will call them, just as I refer to GeekSquad employees as Geeks, and Staples EasyTech employees as EasyTechs. Many are hellbent over the fact that I refer to the Geniuses as Geniuses, but what else am I to call them? I guess the bitchers are just too engulfed in their hatred of Apple to see through what is standard language norm.

Criticize the company all you want, but there's no refuting the fact that Apple employs thousands of Americans, Americans that actually look like they don't want to slit their own throats and jump off a bridge at work, versus these other brands that many tout to be morally and ethically superior, but find it more appropriate routing their support calls to India. It may or may not be standard practice to put employees through customer service training programs, but at least Apple tries to maintain happy customers. They don't tolerate employees with attitudes, and that was evident in my experiences. Cry about them being a monopoly if it eases your mind, but know that the same people who cry about Apple being a monopoly are also supporting Microsoft and Intel. 

At the end of the day, I'm happy with my iPad, I'll be happy with my Macbook Air when I get it in a few days, and if I'm patient enough to wait to pick up my first smartphone, I'll be happy with the iPhone 5. I probably won't wait though since my contract expired 2 days ago, so I'll likely pick up a Samsung Galaxy S3. Either way, I'm a proud fan of Apple.

Whatever happens in this thread will happen. I'm far too tired to debate with people who are adamant on ignoring my posts so they can continue with their hate entourage. This post marks my exit from this thread, one I started with the intention of debate, but unfortunately concluded with pages upon pages of manure.

To those who participated and actually submitted posts with content, I thank you.


----------



## n-ster (Sep 5, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Thanks for those who spent a few minutes reading my OP and my first few posts to realize that my new found loyalty towards Apple is based primarily on their customer service. I'll roughly summarize (note summarize, because everything has already been said, but mostly disregarded since them haters don't have anything as rebuttals) this thread. I may miss some key points, but forgive me if I do.
> 
> I've addressed those criticizing the fact that I had to make an appointment and wait if I was late for the iPad to be inspected before replacing multiple times throughout the thread. To those who read it and ignored it, my point has been made. To those who read it and denied it as a legitimate reason, well, I can't change ignorance can I?
> 
> ...



I have to agree that there is nothing like the iPad 3rd Gen. As long as the competition doesn't catch up, I can see that as a worthy buy. However, for Apple laptops I have to disagree. You can't compare a company like Dell, who routs all their customer service to India etc etc to Apple, their goals are totally different. If you want to compare the MBA to something, try to compare it to the X1 Carbon. I prefer it's keyboard by far, and the only thing so far that Apple has always had better was the touchpad, you can see that the X1 Carbon has an awesome one now. I suggest to try it in stores just to compare. I find MBP pretty average as laptops and the only thing I see for them apart from the big touchpad is the sleek aluminum unibody look. Everything else you can find better and cheaper elsewhere.

For every other product, I can't deny Apple isn't GOOD, but they are far from being the best IMO. Also, if you care about it, Apple doesn't have the greatest track record ethically. They are starting to become patent bullies and try to manipulate the market with their lawyers.

Another thing Apple does is that they make sure most of their products have an end of life not too far from now, ie: batteries, hard to reach RAM etc They have been really bad with the iPhone for that, including using priority screws, making disassembly needed to replace it and gluing the battery down just so that it makes it harder to get to. I just find that dodgy practicing


----------



## hat (Sep 5, 2012)

My stance on this:

I'll probably never own an Apple product. I don't like their business practices, that said I really don't like anyone else's either. If you want all your products to be made by environmentally conscious humanitarians that care about making a good product and for the happiness and well being of others around them, become Amish... if you're not willing to become Amish, then you have to deal with knowing how and where what product X you have was made, and accept it. So, business practice aside, Apple is pretty much out for themselves just like everyone else.

So, if I can accept Apple's business practices, why won't I buy an Apple product? I don't like how overpriced they are, and how locked down they are. In my mind, buying an Apple product means you're paying out the ass for a pretty piece of tech that you can't do as much as competitor offerings that cost less. Some features here and there might be better, but not enough to warrant the price of paying more and the price of not being able to do as much with it.

In short, Kat bought an iPad. Would I buy one? No. Am I going to condemn Kat for buying one? No. It's his iPad, his money, his life. I can see he's probably done his research on the matter based on how heavily he's defended the iPad, and he bought what he felt was best for him.

At the end of the day, Kat's happy with his iPad, and I'm happy with not having an iPad. Kat buying an iPad isn't going to rain on my parade, he's happy about it and I have no reason to get worked up over it. Live and let live...


----------



## Depth (Sep 5, 2012)

We need more opinions on this matter. Need to go deeper


----------



## ViperXTR (Sep 5, 2012)

Irony said:


> Whoo, this pointless thread has passed 250 posts!





n-ster said:


> it only past 250 post because of YOUR pointless post


lol the _Irony_


----------



## lyndonguitar (Sep 5, 2012)

Depth said:


> We need more opinions on this matter. Need to go deeper
> 
> http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp227/subaru421/Inception-Deeper.jpg



Thats why we have you here. You are DEPTH


----------



## lyndonguitar (Sep 5, 2012)

The problem with Apple is the prices are too damn high, and their devices are very restrictive, just for the style and the brand name you have to pay alot more and do less. and they are still doing it cause people are buying.. (that includes me, I cant deny that)

and people give apple devices special treatment. Its 2nd hand/used price drop rate is way slower than competing/equivalent devices.

although I admire the iPhone's smoothness in the GUI, the apps, the overall hardware/software performance of the device is certainly better than most device out there, also the device touchscreen response rate is almost unnoticable unlike in those android phones,

Still they could added a ton of features already standard in the market like USB ports, Flash, Removable Batteries, and LOWER THE PRICE

I have no experience on the customer support cause so far both my iPad and iPod(bought used) didn't have any problems yet. 

But from what happened to you, If that happened to a Samsung Phone, a PC component, or an Xbox 360, three defectives in a row, It sure would take time to replace.


----------



## amit_talkin (Sep 5, 2012)

Apple sucks anyways. They give their garbage ios which runs all apps in sandbox environment and then market it as "secure" device. wtf man...sandbox obvious provide security and bounds users with some stupid restrictions ( and where are mass texting, call recording, bluetooth transfer etc features on iphone btw ). They dont like their devices to jbroken even if it is legal now, and on other side, they f***ing steal ideas from jb communities ( wifi sync, notification center and more ).

Sandbox is stupid idea, it provides security at cost of usability.

I own 2 ipads and i4 and frankly, they are just useless toys without jailbreaking.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 5, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> I've addressed those criticizing the fact that I had to make an appointment and wait if I was late for the iPad to be inspected before replacing multiple times throughout the thread. To those who read it and ignored it, my point has been made. To those who read it and denied it as a legitimate reason, well, I can't change ignorance can I?


Your repeated response is that you are simply picky when pickiness doesn't matter.  You found flaws, showed them to Apple Store's employees and they believed they were flaws and replaced it under warranty.  If you took an iPad to them that had no issues whatsoever, they wouldn't have replaced it--no company would (ever had an RMA denied?).




Kantastic said:


> At the end of the day, iOS is extremely optimized for the hardware it runs on, so the user experience does not come up short to any Android offering despite the X amount of CPU cores and XX amount of GPU cores that said Android tablets have.


Windows Phone 7 runs smoother and faster on less hardware than iPhone 4S because it fully utilizes the GPU.  Windows 8 is delivering the same to tablets.




Kantastic said:


> Apple's laptops are also the epitome of perfection, with a dead-accurate trackpad and a surprisingly well designed keyboard for the form factor that comparable brands like Asus and Lenovo can only hope to get close to.


How is it the "epitome of prefection" when:
a) They can't be dropped from height greater than 36 inches numerous times and still be used as semi-ruggedized computers can.
b) They aren't dust resistant like fully-ruggedized computers are.
c) They can crash/freeze/lock up, no?  Not "perfection."

Meet iPad's worst nightmare: Gammatech DuraBook RT10C, a fully ruggized 10 inch tablet powered by a Core i7 620UE.  All it's missing is Windows 8 which is coming next month. 



Kantastic said:


> There's a reason so many ultrabooks resemble the Macbook Air, but I'll leave that to your own interpretation since I know what I say will be ignored and responded to with a simple, "APPLE SUCKS!!!" remark.


Because Intel, whom made the Air possible, opened the door to the entire industry to make ultrabooks.  You need ultra-low voltage CPUs in order to make ultrabooks because there's no room for a big battery nor cooling solution in them.  Ultrabooks were the natural progression of the laptop form factor.




Kantastic said:


> Many are hellbent over the fact that I refer to the Geniuses as Geniuses, but what else am I to call them?


Apple Store employees?  The same could be said of GeekSquad employees. 




Kantastic said:


> Criticize the company all you want, but there's no refuting the fact that Apple employs thousands of Americans, Americans that actually look like they don't want to slit their own throats and jump off a bridge at work, versus these other brands that many tout to be morally and ethically superior, but find it more appropriate routing their support calls to India. It may or may not be standard practice to put employees through customer service training programs, but at least Apple tries to maintain happy customers. They don't tolerate employees with attitudes, and that was evident in my experiences. Cry about them being a monopoly if it eases your mind, but know that the same people who cry about Apple being a monopoly are also supporting Microsoft and Intel.


Most of the money for purchases at Apple goes to China.  Microsoft and Intel are smaller companies than Apple.



Kantastic said:


> At the end of the day, I'm happy with my iPad, I'll be happy with my Macbook Air when I get it in a few days, and if I'm patient enough to wait to pick up my first smartphone, I'll be happy with the iPhone 5. I probably won't wait though since my contract expired 2 days ago, so I'll likely pick up a Samsung Galaxy S3. Either way, I'm a proud fan of Apple.


Hook, line, and sinker.


----------



## Frick (Sep 5, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Meet iPad's worst nightmare: Gammatech DuraBook RT10C, a fully ruggized 10 inch tablet powered by a Core i7 620UE.  All it's missing is Windows 8 which is coming next month.



How much is that? The cheapest iPad 3 is just above €400 here. If you want 4G it's a smudge below €500. Also, can they produce millions of them and mass market them?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 5, 2012)

A lot, as all fully ruggedized computers are. $3577.95 @ Sears, $3,027.99 @ ComputerPlus.

No, you can't mass produce fully ruggedized computers because everything about them has to be perfect in order to meet durability standards.  If one component isn't screwed in/snapped in correctly, it might explode when dropped instead of taking 20+ drops.

They can't be "mass marketed" because of their price but many industries do buy them (construction, law enforcement, military, etc.).


----------



## HTC (Sep 5, 2012)

hat said:


> My stance on this:
> 
> I'll probably never own an Apple product. *I don't like their business practices*



This is pretty much my view on the subject, though price is also a problem (for my wallet).

On the customer support part, let me put it this way: if the apple has a worm, it doesn't matter how you polish it, treat it, make juice from it: it will still be a bad apple and you'll have to get a new one.


----------



## Frick (Sep 5, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> A lot, as all fully ruggedized computers are. $3577.95 @ Sears, $3,027.99 @ ComputerPlus.
> 
> No, you can't mass produce fully ruggedized computers because everything about them has to be perfect in order to meet durability standards.  If one component isn't screwed in/snapped in correctly, it might explode when dropped instead of taking 20+ drops.
> 
> They can't be "mass marketed" because of their price but many industries do buy them (construction, law enforcement, military, etc.).



Then why bring it up? Because your definition of "perfect" isnt the same as kants?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 5, 2012)

No, my point is "perfection" doesn't exist (I demonstrated with ruggedized products which Apple offers none of).  There's a lot of devices out there that do things MacBooks can't.  The fact Apple has such a limited selection of products means very few people find exactly what they are looking for.


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 5, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> No, my point is "perfection" doesn't exist (I demonstrated with ruggedized products which Apple offers none of).  There's a lot of devices out there that do things MacBooks can't.  The fact Apple has such a limited selection of products means very few people find exactly what they are looking for.



I think within the bounds of figurative speech, you are allowed to call things which are perfect to you as "perfection" but might not necessarily be flawless. 

I actually like Apple's limited product selection, the only obvious thing they are missing from others is the lack of the cheapest rung. Everything starts a step or two up the luxury chain, in order to sustain a higher profit margin. (luxury in the sense commanding price premium, not the quality of the product)


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 5, 2012)

They lack premium products like Intel Extreme Edition powered systems with quad-SLI/Crossfire and no option for workstation cards like Quadro and Fire (have to buy it from the Apple Store separately and pay a $500 premium over market value).  Not to mention the very limited selection (they offer no Fire cards from AMD and if the Quadro 4000 isn't enough, tough shit).  They have above average products at premium prices.

Not to mention, they lag behind in product refresh cycles so, for example, their Mac Pro still has 3 year old graphics cards as the only option (HD 5870).


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 5, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> They lack premium products like Intel Extreme Edition powered systems with quad-SLI/Crossfire and no option for workstation cards like Quadro and Fire (have to buy it from the Apple Store separately and pay a $500 premium over market value).  Not to mention the very limited selection (they offer no Fire cards from AMD and if the Quadro 4000 isn't enough, tough shit).  They have above average products at premium prices.
> 
> Not to mention, they lag behind in product refresh cycles so, for example, their Mac Pro still has 3 year old graphics cards as the only option (HD 5870).



No they don't have the highest rung either. I wouldn't necessary call them having average products at premium prices, quite a few of their products are not too much more expensive compared to similar products of competitors. Also, their R&D and marketing somehow managed almost singlehandedly shape the direction consumer tech is heading for the past few years, I am still waiting for another company to wrest that from them.

Their desktop is more or less abandoned in favour of laptops and other smaller stuff, I am not surprised you can't get any good stuff from that.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 5, 2012)

No tech company gets media coverage like Apple does.  That's the media's fault for being biased, not Apple's.  I almost blew a fuse when Howard Kurtz (media critic, host of Reliable Sources) was going all goo goo gaa gaa over the iPad.  Hello!?!  Tablets aren't new!!!


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 5, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> No tech company gets media coverage like Apple does.  That's the media's fault for being biased, not Apple's.  I almost blew a fuse when Howard Kurtz (media critic, host of Reliable Sources) was going all goo goo gaa gaa over iPad.



Unfortunate fact of life, we will have to live with that until someone comes in with a better marketing team and a host of useless but cool products.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 5, 2012)

I'd say Intel and IBM have good marketing teams but they don't pick sides and they sell useful products to many demographics.


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 5, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I'd say Intel and IBM have good marketing teams but they don't pick sides and they sell useful products to many demographics.



"Boring companies making boring stuff", they need to shake that image off and produce desirable goods. Ultrabook is a good example, but it came after MBA, not before. Watson is good too, but at the moment we cannot mass produce it for the sheeple.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 5, 2012)

Intel has a lot of memorable advertising (e.g. Pentium 4 and USB engineer).  The problem is, they don't sell to end users like Apple does, they sell to OEMs.  IBM mostly targets corporations.  IBM sold the parts of their business that dealt with end users directly (namely, the IBM-PC business to Lenovo) but they're still a household name because of their marketing.


The processor used in MBA was intended for a small form factor Centrino.  Intel sped up development for Apple's MBA: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2422

Ultrabook was born out of Intel's desire to advance laptop design among OEMs much like how ATX advanced desktop design among OEMs.


----------



## purecain (Sep 5, 2012)

the amount of contradiction here astounds me...

yes apple products cost more because they start at a higher price, (you dont say...lol) 

then in the next breath say... apple products dont offer hardware as highend as competitors... (but they cost more...what????)

just think about it...

its like youve memorised the apple manual... like an employee

apple cost more and offer less...£3,000 for a mac(which has 3yr old hardware) 

their one and only innovation the ipad was an old idea... fact

seems like apple marketing really gets its claws in to the minds of some...unbelievable...

really entertaining thread though...  

a price performance chart would be great about now...


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 5, 2012)

purecain said:


> the amount of contradiction here astounds me...
> 
> yes apple products cost more because they start at a higher price, (you dont say...lol)
> 
> then in the next breath say... apple products dont offer hardware as highend as competitors... (but they cost more...what????)



You can find bargain basement build quality stuff from Dell, HP and all other manufacturers (and most of them suffer from problems of one sort or another, most commonly cooling), but you don't find bargain basement stuff from some other manufacturers, prime examples being Apple and Clevo. My next part is also true: Apple does not offer the top end tech either. So why are you so confused? 

Side note: Most manufacturers also make good quality stuff, like X1 Carbon mentioned. However, those are pricey, coming close to the price of Macs depending on locality and availability.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 5, 2012)

Look at the highest offerings from Falcon Northwest, Alienware, and all the custom outfits.  They can go for $4000 easily.  A Mac Pro can sell for the same price but, because of their design decisions (mainly two-way processor), they offer substantially less performance.  The same goes for laptop offerings.  There's $3000+ laptops out there that slap the most expensive MacBook Pros silly in the performance department.  Then there's the other end of the spectrum where you have $5000 laptops that don't have the best performance in the world but they'd survive falling off the roof of a three story building--Apple has nothing like that.


As I said, Apple offers above average products at premium price.  A prime example is the Quadro 4000.  It retails for $800 but Apple Store sells it for $1200.  The Quadro 4000 is above average (GeForces and Radeons being average) but the price is premium.

Likewise, they sell good IPS panels in most of their devices which is above average (most use TFT LCD TN panels) but you pay for an Apple premium on top of the hardware differences.


----------



## Frick (Sep 5, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Look at the highest offerings from Falcon Northwest, Alienware, and all the custom outfits.  They can go for $4000 easily.  A Mac Pro can sell for the same price but, because of their design decisions (mainly two-way processor), they offer substantially less performance.  The same goes for laptop offerings.  There's $3000+ laptops out there that slap the most expensive MacBook Pros silly in the performance department.  Then there's the other end of the spectrum where you have $5000 laptops that don't have the best performance in the world but they'd survive falling off the roof of a three story building--Apple has nothing like that.



Wait, Apple have less performance _because_ of a dual CPU setup? How? Anyway Mac Pros should probably be measured against workstations from HP and Dell and the like, not "custom" gaming machines. Right now they're kinda old fashioned yes, but they're bound for an update later this year (or early 2013 iirc, too long between updates anyway).

And I don't get the other bit. I'm not sure how it's a problem Apple don't have those things.

And yes, they do want a lot of money for upgrades, but that is nothing new.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 5, 2012)

I was mostly talking about price/performance.  Anyway, I was mistaken.  On Mac Pro tech specs they only list two options for processors.  In their configuration options, they offer dual X5675 which no single processor can tackle (except Mangy Cores XD).  Because of that, yes, they need to be compared to two-way workstations.

Apple only sells 5 models of computers: MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, iMac, and Mac Pro.  Virtually every manufacturer in the industry sells at least 5 models of laptops alone.  I see that as a problem because they make customers fit their appliances instead of appliances to fit their customers.


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 5, 2012)

Frick said:


> Anyway Mac Pros should probably be measured against workstations from HP and Dell



I thought everyone (Apple fanboys included) have concluded that Mac Pros are absolutely shit in terms of everything from price/perf to innards? 

In the same vein comparing the best Apple product (Ultrabooks) against its competitors are not exactly fair either, but that leaves us with precious few others to compare with: rMBP (retina display hurpdurp lolunique), MBP (but you get MBP for retina display lolol), iMac (but its AIO!). Really hard to compare the products, and its not helped that Apple users treat Apple products more like a religion/cult/lifestyle rather than a tool. I don't really think you can ask a Muslim to buy a Bible because its cheaper.


----------



## Frick (Sep 5, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> I thought everyone (Apple fanboys included) have concluded that Mac Pros are absolutely shit in terms of everything from price/perf to innards?



What? If anything the Mac Pros are decent value, compared to workstations. here's a pretty good article/review from Ars on the subject. Workstations are far different from home PC's, and shouldn't be compared to them. Well they can sometimes, it depends on the situation, but often they shouldn't. All workstations are the same really, from that perspective.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 5, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> iMac (but its AIO!)


Pretty much every manufacturer has an all-in-one product these days but few (any?) have an IPS panel.


----------



## purecain (Sep 5, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> I thought everyone (Apple fanboys included) have concluded that Mac Pros are absolutely shit in terms of everything from price/perf to innards?
> 
> I don't really think you can ask a Muslim to buy a Bible because its cheaper.



apple marketing have managed to create that situation. and i have to take my hat off to them... 

they are definatly on to something with their stratagy...

theyve created a cult following... 

thats not an easy thing to do... infact for a company its amazing...

still glad i dont follow it...


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 5, 2012)

They've had a cult following since the 1980s.  Almost three decades later and they're still sending a similar message as they did back then (PCs being drones, their products being a chick with a hammer):


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 5, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> They've had a cult following since the 1980s.  Almost three decades later and they're still sending a similar message as they did back then (PCs being drones, their products being a chick with a hammer):



I'd hit it.....her not the TV.


----------



## Frick (Sep 5, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> They've had a cult following since the 1980s.  Almost three decades later and they're still sending a similar message as they did back then (PCs being drones, their products being a chick with a hammer):



Yeah, they did fullfill every companys dream.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 5, 2012)

The only thing that can explain the path of this thread is this video.....

Starts off normal enough...then TPU shines!


----------



## Frick (Sep 5, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> The only thing that can explain the path of this thread is this video.....
> 
> Starts off normal enough...then TPU shines!



I think the last page has been pretty nice.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 5, 2012)

Frick said:


> I think the last page has been pretty nice.



Its just run of the mill Apple hate. They hate it to hate it. No real valid reasons. Just like Windows 8. Hate to be like the rest of the sheep. Thread starts off normal enough with someone saying something nice about Apple and 10 million trolls activate to invalidate his humble claim with no real evidence but sheeple hate.


----------



## johnspack (Sep 5, 2012)

Yeah,  I'm slightly anti-apple,  but even I think this thread has gone on long enough.  Apple has a prominent position in the computer world,  and I doubt they will be removed.  Probably because they have had innovative products,  and made a name for themselves.  I'll never buy one,  but that doesn't mean I don't have respect for them and what they've done.  Got to look at both covers of the book.....


----------



## Frick (Sep 5, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its just run of the mill Apple hate. They hate it to hate it. No real valid reasons. Just like Windows 8. Hate to be like the rest of the sheep. Thread starts off normal enough with someone saying something nice about Apple and 10 million trolls activate to invalidate his humble claim with no real evidence but sheeple hate.



I kinda disagree. We're off topic, but we're not radical. The posts are not as flamable as you'd expect and right now it's surprisingly civil. It almost feels like a discussion and not a game of "Most Stubborn Poster".


----------



## UbErN00b (Sep 5, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its just run of the mill Apple hate. They hate it to hate it. No real valid reasons. Just like Windows 8. Hate to be like the rest of the sheep. Thread starts off normal enough with someone saying something nice about Apple and 10 million trolls activate to invalidate his humble claim with no real evidence but sheeple hate.



I'd like to chime in as a relative noob.

I don't hate Apple as I am sure a lot of other posters here don't however I don't like the kind of company they have become whereby they will market their products as premium and superior to competing products in the market place by marketing power alone and not necessarily in terms of functionality, perfomance or longevity. 

Apple made a name for themselves with the iPod and rightly so cause it was innovative and changed the personal music player industry, the same can be said with the first iPhone, however they have not really come on leaps and bounds in the mobile arena since then and have been overtaken in terms of performance and features by the likes of HTC and Samsung and their only comeback instead of innovating like they used to is to use vague patents to try and stop the competition from competing. 

I am anti-Apple, I don't hate them, I just refuse to give them a dime of my money when I can get just as good and better products from other companies who are pushing the boundaries and improving their designs and products not just trying to stop anyone from competing.


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 5, 2012)

UbErN00b said:


> I don't hate Apple as I am sure a lot of other posters here don't however I don't like the kind of company they have become whereby they will market their products as premium and superior to competing products in the market place by marketing power alone and not necessarily in terms of functionality, perfomance or longevity.



Unfortunately a lot of companies are like that. Car makers, jewellers, beauty products, you name it they exist a luxury lifestyle version which charges more and often not any better than others.


----------



## UbErN00b (Sep 5, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> Unfortunately a lot of companies are like that. Car makers, jewellers, beauty products, you name it they exist a luxury lifestyle version which charges more and often not any better than others.



Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that is not the case, as I will gladly spend £100's on good quality clothes/audio equipment/ (all other goods) if it represents better value than the alternatives. The difference is, I don't think Apple offer significant value over their counterparts when it comes to their products, so why should I pay that premium? 

Example, I have an billabong sweater I bought in 2002 for £50, believe it or not it was quite a bit back then for a "hoody" I could get similar looking hoodies from tesco and matalan for 1/3 the cost, however having tried all 3, I still have the billabong hoody in good condition, the other generic brands lasted a year if lucky. If Apple was billabong and samsung/HTC was the latter then I would gladly buy Apple, unfortunately they don't seem to offer any better QC/customer services, ffunctionality or perfomance yet they cost 30-50% more than the likes of samsung and HTC.


----------



## n-ster (Sep 6, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> Unfortunately a lot of companies are like that. Car makers, jewellers, beauty products, you name it they exist a luxury lifestyle version which charges more and often not any better than others.



That's why we (parents and I) have a 255 000 KMs 2002 Honda Civic that was bought new at 13900$ all included

Except for basic repairs totaling 1500$ or so, the car is running awesome, and saves me money on gas still.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 6, 2012)

That's average (158,450 miles) for used gasoline vehicles.  If it isn't north of 200,000 miles, it isn't impressive. 




Fourstaff said:


> Unfortunately a lot of companies are like that. Car makers, jewellers, beauty products, you name it they exist a luxury lifestyle version which charges more and often not any better than others.


Because no one is keeping them honest.  I blame the 24 hour media cycle.  24 hours isn't enough time for real journalism.


----------



## m1dg3t (Sep 6, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its just run of the mill Apple hate. They hate it to hate it. No real valid reasons. Just like Windows 8. Hate to be like the rest of the sheep. Thread starts off normal enough with someone saying something nice about Apple and 10 million trolls activate to invalidate his humble claim with no real evidence but sheeple hate.



All hail the master!


----------



## Irony (Sep 7, 2012)

I personally despise apple, but I'm not going to condemn anyone for their personal choice. My friend bought a used Macpro for over $1000 and it has an ATI 2500. I have just over $1000 in my rig. It's things like this that make me not like apple. 

Also, check out foxconn on wikipedia. Look at the china section.


@kant: I have a Transformer Prime, and after about a month, a spec of dust appeared under the glass. I'm not generally a perfectionist so I didn't do anything about it. However, I'm glad that you're finally happy with your purchase.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 7, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> The only thing that can explain the path of this thread is this video.....
> 
> Starts off normal enough...then TPU shines!



All I have to say to you Mailman about that vid is


----------



## trt740 (Sep 7, 2012)

I have tried at least 5 different Android tablets and my current  iPad is superior in everyway except memory expansion. The reason I tried so many Androids is I did not want to pay the high price that Apple demands. Finally after 5 tablets and apps that worked differently on each one, I got fed up and bit the bullet. I am not sorry at all. However, 9 months later and a transition from IPad 2 to IPad 3rd gen( not a waste but would not do that again) I have to say Androids programming has come along way. I just bought my kids 2 Tegra 2 Acer Iconia tabs one for 189.00 and one for 229.00. If you have kids that need tablets for school these are top notch for the money. But back on topic, I have never been a Apple fan, but there is a reason they are going to be the first trillion dollar company. Asus, Acer and Samsung, with the help of Google, are getting near the same quality but not yet. Do not bash a company merely because they have a good product. Apple has done it right and I can attest to it personally with the IPad. Don't hate something just "because," at least have a reason, a valid reason. The reason Apple is successful is the "it just works factor." Android cannot say that and that is their struggle. They are getting better but head to head Apple will kill them all they need to do is add an expansion slot. You guys do know the IPad 3rd generation's Gpu is up to 8 times faster than the Tegra 3, or potentially so. Keep that in mind. Is the third gen perfect? Nope, Hot, heavier and thicker than the prior tablet but still awesome. That's my two cents. FYI the Asus Prime 700 is pretty darn nice as well and I love my Samsung Infuse. It will be interesting when Apples 7 inch tablet gets released. I bet it is a giant hit with women and caters to them. I will hate it but women won't. Watch prices drop they day it comes out.


One more thing, the reason I have been MIA here lately is my computer use has all but disappeared due to my IPad.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 7, 2012)

It's disappointing how "behind the game" Microsoft has been this century.  They rode out XP too long, they were late to the MP3 player market, they were late to the smartphone market, and now they're late to the tablet market.  With Windows 8 targeting all four markets, the question is: are they fashionably late?  I think the answer will be a resounding "yes" this time next year.

iPad 3 is going to have to compete with laptop hardware (Core i5) in Windows 8 Professional tablets.  It can't.


----------



## trt740 (Sep 7, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> It's disappointing how "behind the game" Microsoft has been this century.  They rode out XP too long, they were late to the MP3 player market, they were late to the smartphone market, and now they're late to the tablet market.  With Windows 8 targeting all four markets, the question is: are they fashionably late?  I think the answer will be a resounding "yes" this time next year.
> 
> iPad 3 is going to have to compete with laptop hardware in Windows 8 Professional tablets.  It can't.



We will see, and you could be right but pc tablets have always had battery issues. To power a core I5 that going to be a issue as is heat,not IPad 3 heat, real heat. That is why I bought a IPad and not a Lappy. Ten hours is in the low end. My IPad 3 hits 12 hours frequently. Also, Microsoft cannot make a unbloated piece of software, and that's their problem. Google and Apple yes. Microsoft no. Still I do miss real office / word but on Android Kingsoft Office is really well done. They even have a Windows 7 free version that good as well.


----------



## pantherx12 (Sep 7, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> It's disappointing how "behind the game" Microsoft has been this century.  They rode out XP too long, they were late to the MP3 player market, they were late to the smartphone market, and now they're late to the tablet market.  With Windows 8 targeting all four markets, the question is: are they fashionably late?  I think the answer will be a resounding "yes" this time next year.
> 
> iPad 3 is going to have to compete with laptop hardware (Core i5) in Windows 8 Professional tablets.  It can't.



Unless Apple do the same, people will be all up in it


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 7, 2012)

trt740 said:


> We will see, and you could be right but pc tablets have always had battery issues. To power a core I5 that going to be a issue as is heat,not IPad 3 heat, real heat. That is why I bought a IPad and not a Lappy. Ten hours is in the low end. My IPad 3 hits 12 hours frequently. Also, Microsoft cannot make a unbloated piece of software, and that's their problem. Google and Apple yes. Microsoft no. Still I do miss real office / word but on Android Kingsoft Office is really well done. They even have a Windows 7 free version that good as well.


Are you kidding me?  iOS and OS X have tons of bloat in them.  Microsoft was ordered by the EU not to have bloat in their operating system because it's "anticompetitive."  Even Solitaire and Minesweeper are no longer in Windows 8--they have to be downloaded through Windows Store.

Windows has *never* been bloated.  OEMs might bloat computers they sell but that's not Microsoft's fault.  Buy the computer from an OEM that doesn't bloat computers (like Systemax) and that problem is solved.


Yes, performance sacrifices battery life but that's why there is an ARM version as well.




pantherx12 said:


> Unless Apple do the same, people will be all up in it


OS X is the only operating system Apple has that can run on x86 and, like Windows 7, it is *not* tablet friendly.  If Apple does release an iPad with an x86 processor, it is at least two years away because they have to port all the iOS code to support x86.  That likely creates issues in App Store too so, I think Microsoft effectively pulled a quick one Apple can't beat them on.  Apple will probably respond by suing Microsoft to keep Windows 8 tablets off the market.


----------



## trt740 (Sep 7, 2012)

Ipad os is bloated?seems very lean to me.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 7, 2012)

iOS 5.1 has (from Apple's User Guide):
-Safari
-Mail
-Messages
-Camera
-FaceTime
-PhotoBooth
-Photos
-Videos
-YouTube
-Calendar
-Contacts
-Notes
-Reminders
-Maps
-Music
-iTunes Store
-App Store
-Newstand
-iBooks
-Game Center
-Accessibility
-Settings

About 1/3 of those I would consider bloat.


Windows 8:
http://www.theverge.com/microsoft/2012/2/8/2784252/windows-8-consumer-preview-applications

-Internet Explorer 10 (has to be uninstallable as per EU ruling)
-Camera
-Messaging
-Mail (supports hotmail, POP3, SMPT, etc.)
-Calendar
-SkyDrive (Microsoft's cloud)
-People
-Photos
-Video
-Music
-Xbox Live (games)
-Windows Store

I wouldn't consider any of those bloat.


----------



## mlee49 (Sep 7, 2012)

If you can't tell by now, FordGT90Concept works for Microsoft.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 7, 2012)

I do not.


----------



## 95Viper (Sep 7, 2012)

Kantastic, you are a *genius* to thank a troll post!
Oh, and, how is the new job at Apple going?


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 7, 2012)

95Viper said:


> Kantastic, you are a *genius* to thank a troll post!
> Oh, and, how is the new job at Apple going?



I can always appreciate good humor. 

I wish I could get a job at the Apple store. Friendly customers, friendly coworkers, beautiful environment, convenient location, all the Apple goodies I can ever want, etc. Plus, it's either that or move to India and work for another brand.  That's not the worst part, the worst part is my stomach can't handle the spices.


----------



## bostonbuddy (Sep 7, 2012)

Besides final cut apple software has been pretty horrendous imo, their os' are almost as bad as the one one on my kindle fire(there desktop os' not just ios)
Apple or should I say Steve Jobs was just very good at figuring out what for factors people like for their computers and capitalizing on it.


----------



## trt740 (Sep 7, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> iOS 5.1 has:
> -Safari
> -Mail
> -Messages
> ...





I was talking about physical size not system tools that are needed.
However, it looks to me like you cannot be objective here.


----------



## Frick (Sep 7, 2012)

trt740 said:


> I was talking about physical size not system tools that are needed.
> However, it looks to me like you cannot be objective here.



Off topic, but if Ford has made up his mind nothing can nudge it. You should see the headbutting at generalnonsense.


----------



## Peter1986C (Sep 7, 2012)

Steady as a mountain, he certainly is (I am well-meaning here ).


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 7, 2012)

trt740 said:


> I was talking about physical size not system tools that are needed.
> However, it looks to me like you cannot be objective here.


I did not know that's what you were referring to.

I think the principle reason why Windows installs are growing is because drivers are growing both in size and number.  Also, it has many Windows-exclusive technologies pre-installed like the .NET Framework and DirectX.  .NET Framework has the benefit of application size being smaller.

Case in point: just for the HID Keyboard driver, Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit includes drivers for the following manufacturers (one or more keyboards for each): Acer, ALPS, AT&T, BTC, Cherry GmbH, Chicony, Compaq, Focus, Forward, Fujitsu, Jing Mold, Key Tronic, Maxi Switch, Inc., Microsoft, Mitsumi, Monterey, NEC, NMB, Olivetti, Ortek, Philips, Qtronix, Samsung, Sejin, Silitek, Solid Year, STSL, SUH, SUPERGATE, Toshiba.  Most of those I've never heard of and a lot of those I did, I didn't know they made keyboards.

In short, that extra space used, for the most part, to improve compatibility and to prevent asking to reinsert the Windows disk (Windows 9X did that a lot, it was annoying).




Frick said:


> Off topic, but if Ford has made up his mind nothing can nudge it. You should see the headbutting at generalnonsense.





Chevalr1c said:


> Steady as a mountain, he certainly is (I am well-meaning here ).


I only move to undeniable facts.


----------



## trt740 (Sep 7, 2012)

I am one fickle bastard. If Microsoft comes out with a better, and cheaper solution,heck Android for that matter, do not think I won't switch because I will. I do not believe in loyalty when it comes to tech. I like what's best and productive at the time. Money is also a great motivator to me. In my opinion, Apple tablets are the best but others are gaining ground. In this one case the money was worth it.


----------



## entropy13 (Sep 8, 2012)

[yt]FFhjDX-DUew[/yt]










The heretics can only resort to parodies to bash the Sacred Company. All hail the Holy Apple!


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 8, 2012)

LoL I watched that one yesterday actually. I mean I like my iPhone alot but hold no genuine brand loyalty at all.


----------



## NHKS (Sep 8, 2012)

"fan" is not the word one would choose to associate with today's successful corporations/'brands' when they realize things like this keep happening in the background.. 
Samsung concedes some abuse in factories
Students say they are forced to work on new iPhone 5

these valued 'brands' make great products no doubt but at what cost?


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 8, 2012)

NHKS said:


> these valued 'brands' make great products no doubt but at what cost?



£480 for SGS III and £499 for iPhone 4S. A bit pricey but I am sure a lot of people can afford, especially if they buy the phone with a contract.


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 8, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> £480 for SGS III and £499 for iPhone 4S. A bit pricey but I am sure a lot of people can afford, especially if they buy the phone with a contract.



There really isn't alot between them is there price wise? Other than the S III is brand new 

Never looked to be honest I got offered a cheaper plan not that long ago so I am "locked in" until next spring I figure. So by then iPhone 5 "hoopla" should have well died down, can get them cheaper on a new plan if I decide to "stay the course" Plenty of time for somebody to woo me away from my "walled garden" I have obliviously just accepted


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 8, 2012)

INSTG8R said:


> There really isn't alot between them is there price wise? Other than the S III is brand new
> 
> Never looked to be honest I got offered a cheaper plan not that long ago so I am "locked in" until next spring I figure. So by then iPhone 5 "hoopla" should have well died down, can get them cheaper on a new plan if I decide to "stay the course" Plenty of time for somebody to woo me away from my "walled garden" I have obliviously just accepted



Samsung/Android/antiApple will tell you that SGSIII has a faster processor, blablabla etcetcetc. iPhone 4S user will tell you that iOS is better blablabla etcetcetc. Both of them have their points, so at the end of the day you pick which one you like better. 

Are you nationalist enough to buy the iPhone 4S (hurrdurr meriken company) or do you support the hallowing out of US's industry by buying SGSIII? Please don't reply to this question, its not going to be pretty.


----------



## horik (Sep 8, 2012)

lol at this,is the ultimate sue(if true):http://gizmodo.com/copyright/


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 8, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> Samsung/Android/antiApple will tell you that SGSIII has a faster processor, blablabla etcetcetc. iPhone 4S user will tell you that iOS is better blablabla etcetcetc. Both of them have their points, so at the end of the day you pick which one you like better.
> 
> Are you nationalist enough to buy the iPhone 4S (hurrdurr meriken company) or do you support the hallowing out of US's industry by buying SGSIII? Please don't reply to this question, its not going to be pretty.



Nope skipping the 4S same as skipped the 3GS. In the big picture to me it's just a "go faster stripe" I don't have any reason to say that I need my phone to do anything faster than it already does.

 Here is an honest Android question(not gotten near it other than farting about with a friends phone etc) How is easy is it to "transfer" to a new phone?
I mean I "regularly" synch my phones with iTunes on my laptop to keep it backed up(not as much lately just can't be arsed) NEVER checked any special setting or options just plugged it in and Synched. Normally I do if there is an App update.

But when I switched from my 3G to my 4 I just plugged it into iTunes, It asked me something to the effect "Is this a new phone?" Off it went.  The new 4 was EXACTLY as I had left my 3G didn't have to look for or move anything. Perfectly cloned and ready to use. 

Where Does Android weigh in with that?


----------



## Frick (Sep 8, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I only move to undeniable facts.



Imma go ahead and say "ok".


----------



## NHKS (Sep 15, 2012)

iPhone 5 is out, but so are the pranks!.. 










PS: this has nothing to do with apple hate, just for laughs


----------



## newlife (Sep 15, 2012)

The only thing i have to say about apple is what they did to samsung, which shows how evil apple you, dont forget apple lost the court cases at a huge cost to samsung and they were made to say sorry to samsung for it and basicly promote there product


----------



## lilhasselhoffer (Sep 15, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> Are you nationalist enough to buy the iPhone 4S (hurrdurr meriken company) or do you support the hallowing out of US's industry by buying SGSIII? Please don't reply to this question, its not going to be pretty.



WTF?

I understand hate for the US.  Our international policies were and are written by morons that couldn't identify European countries if given a globe (to say nothing of South America or Asia).  I know that the worst elements of our populous are what people around the world see.  Just for a moment, put this into perspective.  Europe has everything from cockney to zealots, just like the US.  Assuming that there is some innate superiority is foolish.  Ask a German, and they say the French are wine loving pussies.  The British say the same, and add that Germans are anal engineers who can never make a decision.  The french think everyone outside France is an unrefined animal unfit to be in their presence (all of this from personal experience).  

Coming back around to the original topic; what are you trying to get at.  Neither of these things is produced in the US.  Apple designs might be focused in the US, with Samsung being a more global player.  The unpleasant reality is that neither produces the product anywhere but China (though some parts come from either Japan or Taiwan as quality requires).


So no, you don't support the US or rebuke the US by choosing a phone.  You kill a Chinese worker piece-meal by buying a phone.  If you think anything else then you're missing the manufacturing part of production, and only focusing on development.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 15, 2012)

NHKS said:


> iPhone 5 is out, but so are the pranks!..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How fuckin thick do you have to be, to say one works better, is faster, thinner and lighter WHILE YOU'RE HOLDING THE SAME ONE IN THE OTHER HAND.


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 15, 2012)

RejZoR said:


> How fuckin thick do you have to be, to say one works better, is faster, thinner and lighter WHILE YOU'RE HOLDING THE SAME ONE IN THE OTHER HAND.



Yep was pretty shocking...


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 15, 2012)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> Coming back around to the original topic; what are you trying to get at.  Neither of these things is produced in the US.  Apple designs might be focused in the US, with Samsung being a more global player.  The unpleasant reality is that neither produces the product anywhere but China (though some parts come from either Japan or Taiwan as quality requires).
> 
> So no, you don't support the US or rebuke the US by choosing a phone.  You kill a Chinese worker piece-meal by buying a phone.  If you think anything else then you're missing the manufacturing part of production, and only focusing on development.



And so you replied 

I don't have any problem with US in general, but there are some Americans who are diehard nationalists and will not touch Android, targets of this question. This is not some "omg Europe is so much better than America" etc. Sorry if you took offence.

The thing is, production is not a high profit industry anymore, unless you are a specialist (something US retains). Shove the low margin business overseas, and keep the high margin ones inshore (development). You simply cannot afford to keep the production inshore unless someone is subsidising the production, and at the moment no one is willing to do that.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 15, 2012)

"Low margin?"  Because of the fact they get it made for so cheap, they can make a killing selling it in other countries.  Profit margins are huge for Apple, unbelievably huge.  Just look at the iPhone 5.  They're selling microUSB adapters virtually everyone is going to want in the USA for $10 each.  They probably cost less than $1 to manufacture.  Also look at the $29 adapters to allow the new iPhone 5 to work with older devices.  That probably costs less than $3 to manufacturer so their profit margin is again about 10x.  The iPhone itself costs about $200 to manufacturer.  They sell for north of $600 uncontracted where competing products are about $200 less retail with substantially better hardware.

With those kinds of profit margins, they could easily afford to manufacturer their devices in the USA.  But they don't.  Being a "greedy" corporation like the rest of them, they manufacturer as cheap as they can to get the largest profit margins possible.  

I don't blame Apple for that because they're doing what all international corporations in the 21st century do.  I do blame consumers for not doing research before shelling out mega bucks for over-priced products.  Apple, like every other corporation, will keep doing it so long as they can get away with it.


----------



## Aquinus (Sep 15, 2012)

I got an iPhone because work was going to pay a large portion of my monthly bill. Otherwise I would have gotten a HTC Incredible 2. I go where money takes me. Both the iPhone and Android products are good. I just chose the one that was going to save me money. All the hate in this thread is why people don't get along. It's a phone ffs, choose want you want. If you don't like Apple, fine. Get a droid or something. It doesn't mean Apple is any worse than other companies that want to corner the market.

I'm happy to say that I'm happy with my 4S and the price I pay for it.


----------



## lilhasselhoffer (Sep 15, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> The thing is, production is not a high profit industry anymore, unless you are a specialist (something US retains). Shove the low margin business overseas, and keep the high margin ones inshore (development). You simply cannot afford to keep the production inshore unless someone is subsidising the production, and at the moment no one is willing to do that.



I don't believe you've got the same grasp on the issue here, so can you help me walk through the logic you're using.  As I can't understand your logic, will you point out where our understandings differ?



Manufacturing is where both Samsung and Apple make their money initially, but Apple doesn't stop there.  They take in materials and components, create a finished good, and sell it to the providers at a specific margin.  Part of their costs are software and hardware development.  So you take in $240 worth of parts per phone.  You contract 300,000 phone sales world-wide.  You spend $900,000 on developing the software, and $1,800,000 on developing the phone.  The break even price of the phone (Samsung to phone company) is therefore labor+$249.  Assuming that labor is higher (manufactured anywhere but China), you must increase the selling price.  Companies don't take a financial loss, because if they do they cease to exist.

Now Apple and Samsung differ vastly on the development side.  Apple enjoys touting that they are 100% US based.  They also sell vastly more units, due to brand recognition.  For a moment, let's say that for every Samsung piece of hardware sold there are two pieces of Apple hardware.  Does the increased cost of US development hurt Apple?  NO.  They can spend twice as much on development.  Rather than starting with a barebones OS and adding features (android), they can develop everything from the ground up.  Apple can implement a walled garden.  Every piece of software sales suddenly becomes a sale for Apple.  Samsung, meanwhile, doesn't earn a penny in software sales because they use an open source platform.

We've seen that Apple and Samsung are fundamentally the same on the manufacturing side.  Development is the only place where they differ.  Apple is very closed, so they can control everything post sale.  They tout a better experience, because they can control everything.  Samsung touts better specifications.  They get to do everything, but things break far more often.  


The real question is how consumers respond, and herein lies the problem.  Both of these devices a subsidized by the service providers.  Without the 66% or higher subsidies from retail price people would purchase differently.  A clean interface, with functionality nerfed, is acceptable at the $200 price point.  You get something with less features that a PC, but a similar experience and speed for less cost.  Samsung tries to give the PC speed and features, but also shares the PC instability.  The uninformed consumer only sees a $200 price tag, and makes the assumption that some errors aren't acceptable at such a low price point.  They would weigh the decision differently if the full $600 retail price were on display.


In the background, Samsung has moved on to developing the next phone model.  Apple has begun to rest on their laurels, because their lock on software sales will bouy the company for months, before they need to crank up development efforts on the next revision.



In short, you buy a business model.  Either rich features that are sometimes problematic, or locked down but generally more stable.  Apple has done an excellent job of making their brand known, which has allowed them to compete differently.  Samsung competes in the more traditional manner of new features and lower prices.  "Stupid American cultural supremacists," while existing, aren't the driving force.  The people hiding the true costs and selling experience/branding over capability are what makes Apple work.


While I hate Apple, but they deserve acknowledgement for making this crap acceptable.  At no other point in my memory could a less featured product be sold at the same price, and outstrip competitor sales so totally as the iPhone does. -golf clap-


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 15, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> It doesn't mean Apple is any worse than other companies that want to corner the market.


Did you not read what I typed?  Apple made a net profit of $8.2 billion in 2009, $14.0 billion in 2010, and $25.9 billion in 2011.  As of Q2, 2012, Apple had $110.2 billion cash on hand.  What do they do with it?  Buy back shares and issue dividends to investors, also known as "make Wall Street happy."

The point I'm trying to make at is that, due to the cult following Apple has, they can charge non-competitive rates for products and still get astronomical sales.  What that same cult has to realize is Apple is a corporation and, in no way, deserves to be put on some pedastal to be praised.  Then they really need to reflect in on themselves and ask "is this product really worth the premium?"  Obviously, a lot will say yes, but I insist they reevaluate the situation for the sake of capitalism and free market economics.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 15, 2012)

RejZoR said:


> How fuckin thick do you have to be, to say one works better, is faster, thinner and lighter WHILE YOU'RE HOLDING THE SAME ONE IN THE OTHER HAND.



Shows how strong the pacebo effect can be and/or how strong the stupidity in America is.


----------



## HTC (Sep 15, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> *Shows how strong the placebo effect can be* and/or how strong the stupidity in America is.



That's pretty much what Apple counts on.


----------



## Peter1986C (Sep 15, 2012)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> Samsung, meanwhile, doesn't earn a penny in software sales because they use an open source platform.



And why is that? The term "open source" purely points to a development model. It does not say anything about pricing.



lilhasselhoffer said:


> In short, you buy a business model.  Either rich features that are sometimes problematic, or locked down but generally more stable.



You bring these two as antitheses, but are they? How fast new features get introduced is not related to how "locked down" a product is, IMHO. Stability is also set apart from the business model (after all, stability is linked to programming skills and how well the hardware works).



lilhasselhoffer said:


> While I hate Apple, but they deserve acknowledgement for making this crap acceptable.  At no other point in my memory could a less featured product be sold at the same price, and outstrip competitor sales so totally as the iPhone does. -golf clap-



With that, I can agree.


----------



## Kreij (Sep 15, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> The point I'm trying to make at is that, due to the cult following Apple has, they can charge non-competitive rates for products and still get astronomical sales. What that same cult has to realize is Apple is a corporation and, in no way, deserves to be put on some pedastal to be praised. Then they really need to reflect in on themselves and ask "is this product really worth the premium?" Obviously, a lot will say yes, but I insist they reevaluate the situation for the sake of capitalism and free market economics.



What you just described is the epitome of capitalism and free market economy.


----------



## [XC] Oj101 (Sep 15, 2012)

I read your first post, nothing more. You went through FOUR iPads to get ONE working unit. You had a two hour wait? I think you made a mistake in the thread title, are you SURE you didn't mean to call it "Why I'm no*t* an Apple fan..."? I mean the W and T on a keyboard are three keys apart, but you showed a lack of intelligence by not insisting on a refund half way through your fiasco so I wouldn't be surprised if you mixed up the keys  (<-- that smilie means my last sentence was a joke)


----------



## erocker (Sep 15, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> I don't have any problem with US in general, but there are some Americans who are diehard nationalists and will not touch Android, targets of this question.



You might be correct, but I think you're off base. Apple's "fanatic" customer base doesn't seem very nationalistic to me. Besides, what is wrong with nationalism? Have you no pride in where you live?


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 15, 2012)

[XC] Oj101 said:


> I read your first post, nothing more. You went through FOUR iPads to get ONE working unit. You had a two hour wait? I think you made a mistake in the thread title, are you SURE you didn't mean to call it "Why I'm no*t* an Apple fan..."? I mean the W and T on a keyboard are three keys apart, but you showed a lack of intelligence by not insisting on a refund half way through your fiasco so I wouldn't be surprised if you mixed up the keys  (<-- that smilie means my last sentence was a joke)



It's curious why you felt the need to start off your post by stating you only read my first post and nothing more. I guess it's fine to ignore everything else that's been said so you can make an argument that's valid in your psychotic little fantasy world where the clock runs backwards.  (<- that smile means my last sentence was a joke)


----------



## [XC] Oj101 (Sep 15, 2012)

I see no need to read through it, I couldn't really as I was dialing 911 after choking on the irony between the thread title and the opening post


----------



## Frick (Sep 15, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Did you not read what I typed?  Apple made a net profit of $8.2 billion in 2009, $14.0 billion in 2010, and $25.9 billion in 2011.  As of Q2, 2012, Apple had $110.2 billion cash on hand.  What do they do with it?  Buy back shares and issue dividends to investors, also known as "make Wall Street happy."
> 
> The point I'm trying to make at is that, due to the cult following Apple has, they can charge non-competitive rates for products and still get astronomical sales.  What that same cult has to realize is Apple is a corporation and, in no way, deserves to be put on some pedastal to be praised.  Then they really need to reflect in on themselves and ask "is this product really worth the premium?"  Obviously, a lot will say yes, but I insist they reevaluate the situation for the sake of capitalism and free market economics.



Other companies would be the same if they could. I've said it before in this thread, Apple is living the open market dream.



[XC] Oj101 said:


> I read your first post, nothing more. You went through FOUR iPads to get ONE working unit. You had a two hour wait? I think you made a mistake in the thread title, are you SURE you didn't mean to call it "Why I'm no*t* an Apple fan..."? I mean the W and T on a keyboard are three keys apart, but you showed a lack of intelligence by not insisting on a refund half way through your fiasco so I wouldn't be surprised if you mixed up the keys  (<-- that smilie means my last sentence was a joke)



Get out out then as you don't want to contribute.



HTC said:


> That's pretty much what Apple counts on.



To be fair they could've done the same thing with pretty much anything.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 15, 2012)

Kreij said:


> What you just described is the epitome of capitalism and free market economy.


Let me highlight the key phrase:


FordGT90Concept said:


> The point I'm trying to make at is that, due to the cult following Apple has, they can charge *non-competitive rates* for products and still get astronomical sales.  What that same cult has to realize is Apple is a corporation and, in no way, deserves to be put on some pedastal to be praised.  Then they really need to reflect in on themselves and ask "is this product really worth the premium?"  Obviously, a lot will say yes, but I insist they reevaluate the situation for the sake of capitalism and free market economics.


Capitalism doesn't work when there's only one competitor.  The profit margins Apple is getting suggests they are in a separate market with no competition.  Where there is only one competitor, the market is as free as a communist economy (not free at all).


----------



## Frick (Sep 15, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Capitalism doesn't work when there's only one competitor.  The profit margins Apple is getting suggests they are in a separate market with no competition.  Where is only one competitor, the market is as free as a communist economy (not free at all).



So why has Samsung sold all those phones? There is a lot of competition. And I don't know anything about other manufacturers profit margins, but at least here there are lots of phones that are more expensive than iPhones. The same goes for iPads, those devices are actually pretty good value when compared to similiar devices in the same price bracket (the way they should).


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 15, 2012)

Android is competing amongst Android, Windows Phone is competing amongst Windows Phone, and iOS is competing amongst iOS.  Android has many manufacturers, Windows Phone has many manufacturers, and iOS has one manufacturer.  Even Symbian had several manufacturers (Nokia, Samsung, and Sony) but they all (especially Nokia) voluntarily jumped ship to Windows Phone and/or Android.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 15, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Android is competing amongst Android, Windows Phone is competing amongst Windows Phone, and iOS is competing amongst iOS.  Android has many manufacturers, Windows Phone has many manufacturers, and iOS has one manufacturer.  Even Symbian had several manufacturers (Nokia, Samsung, and Sony) but they all (especially Nokia) voluntarily jumped ship to Windows Phone and/or Android.



I apologize on behalf of Apple for them not having been willing to release their in-house OS that revolutionized the MP3 and phone industry.

Sorry that Apple's competence pioneered propelled them onto the #1 spot in the industry. That shouldn't be how capitalism works, nope. When a company releases a product that satisfies consumers, they shouldn't be rewarded, nope. Lets blame all this on Apple and not the incompetence of other companies. Samsung is such a victim of the lawsuits, they should just stop selling parts to Apple. Oh wait, it's too lucrative and profitable a contract. I guess that's capitalism, right? No? Oh, I'll be darned, I never knew!


----------



## erocker (Sep 15, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> When a company releases a product that satisfies consumers, they shouldn't be rewarded, nope.



Um.. They are. It's called money and/or profit.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 15, 2012)

erocker said:


> Um.. They are. It's called money and/or profit.



Not according to Ford.


----------



## erocker (Sep 15, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> Not according to Ford.



I didn't get that from any of Ford's statements in any way.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 15, 2012)

I think the bottom line is this: in large markets, operating systems should not be made by manufacturers.  If you're going to make an OS, you need to get out of manufacturing.  If you're going to manufacturer, you need to get out of the OS business.  This goes for Microsoft and Zune/Surface, Google and their ownership of Motorola as welll as Chromebooks, and Apple and, well, all their appliances.  It empowers them too much to force customers to use specific hardware with specific software barring competition.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 15, 2012)

erocker said:


> I didn't get that from any of Ford's statements in any way.



All this talk about Apple releasing products at non-competitive prices (which is bullshit since I can name 10 ultrabooks that have similar specs for similar or higher costs), and their "monopolistic" business tactics that stifle market progress that give them an unfair advantage over competition because of the legacy they've created for themselves through various aspects of their business operations is wrong? They don't have a right to prosper in this CAPITALIST economy because they've done things right and they took on the risks that other manufacturers did not, and only did so after those risks proved successful for Apple?


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 15, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I think the bottom line is this: in large markets, operating systems should not be made by manufacturers.  If you're going to make an OS, you need to get out of manufacturing.  If you're going to manufacturer, you need to get out of the OS business.  This goes for Microsoft and Zune/Surface, Google and their ownership of Motorola as welll as Chromebooks, and Apple and, well, all their appliances.  It empowers them too much to force customers to use specific hardware with specific software barring competition.



I thought you valued capitalism, I guess you don't want a free market economy. Thanks for undermining your logic for hating Apple.

Edit: Waiting for the auto-merge feature!


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 15, 2012)

Nokia is proof that the competitive market has far more risk than the walled garden iOS products live in.  Apple released an average product in the iPhone 5 and it still sells millions.  When superior products can't compete at lower prices, that suggests something sinister is afoot.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 15, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Nokia is proof that the competitive market has far more risk than the walled garden iOS products live in.



Nokia has no brand recognition in the smartphone industry for the US. You can argue that the Lumia 710 or 900 are quality phones, but I haven't seen a single person use it, ever, and I live in NYC. They also turned net losses on their operations in 2011. I guess some companies are a little more rational in their cost-benefit assessments prior to undermining risks, the same quality that sets Apple apart from your parade of manufacturers who are being abused by Apple because Apple is a monopoly.



FordGT90Concept said:


> Nokia is proof that the competitive market has far more risk than the walled garden iOS products live in.  Apple released an average product in the iPhone 5 and it still sells millions.  When superior products can't compete at lower prices, that suggests something sinister is afoot.



Building a bigger phone and adding an expansion slot is not black magic, anybody can do it. But I'm sure Apple you'll find a tangential between Apple's monopolistic values to their refusal to add certain features to their phones. And it'll all make sense to you! Perfect sense!!!


----------



## INSTG8R (Sep 15, 2012)

Ford you do realize that Samsung actually has the lead in phones right now right? All your "chest beating" is for nothing. Samsung is winning.....


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 15, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> They also turned net losses on their operations in 2011.


They were selling their Lumia 900 for a loss...




Kantastic said:


> ...the same quality that sets Apple apart from your parade of manufacturers who are being abused by Apple because Apple is a monopoly.


When's the last time you tried to hammer in a nail with your smartphone?  Nokia's quality far exceeds Apple's.


----------



## Fourstaff (Sep 15, 2012)

erocker said:


> You might be correct, but I think you're off base. Apple's "fanatic" customer base doesn't seem very nationalistic to me. Besides, what is wrong with nationalism? Have you no pride in where you live?



No, I am talking about how nationalistic people should buy Apple instead of Android rather than Apple fanatics being nationalistic. 

Nationalism is too dangerous for me to handle. The entire Orient is currently a dynamite stick waiting for the stray spark. Every single country has been pitted against each other, and the US is trying to make it their business (making it even harder to solve). 



FordGT90Concept said:


> Capitalism doesn't work when there's only one competitor.  The profit margins Apple is getting suggests they are in a separate market with no competition.  Where there is only one competitor, the market is as free as a communist economy (not free at all).



What is the primary market Apple is in? Computers, smartphones, music players. You get to choose from many different computer makers (Dell, HP etc), many different smartphone makers (Samsung, Sharp, LG, HTC, etc) and many different music player makers (Creative, Cowon, Sandisk, etc). How is that monopolistic? iOS? I don't see anything wrong with iOS the same way as I don't see anything wrong with BlackBerry tying the hardware and software in one package, along with TomTom, Nokia (with Symbian) and the OS that came with the hardware in your local power station. 



Kantastic said:


> I thought you valued capitalism, I guess you don't want a free market economy.


People only support capitalism when it works to their favour, you see. For example, China is being a bastard by lowering their exchange rate. That is capitalism at its finest: I can afford to produce things at a much lower price than you by the method I choose (which may include but not limited to: piss poor wages, deflated exchange rate, bribery).



FordGT90Concept said:


> Nokia is proof that the competitive market has far more risk than the walled garden iOS products live in.  Apple released an average product in the iPhone 5 and it still sells millions.  When superior products can't compete at lower prices, that suggests something sinister is afoot.



Yes, its called crowd mentality and also stupidity. You should be very familiar with the tulip mania. This is no different


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 15, 2012)

INSTG8R said:


> Ford you do realize that Samsung actually has the lead in phones right now right? All your "chest beating" is for nothing. Samsung is winning.....



Samsung is only winning because Apple is a big, bad monopoly. 

Disclaimer: The above statement has no factual basis nor theoretical and/or hypothetical supporting arguments. It is only logical to a select few individuals in this thread.



Fourstaff said:


> People only support capitalism when it works to their favour, you see. For example, China is being a bastard by lowering their exchange rate. That is capitalism at its finest: I can afford to produce things at a much lower price than you by the method I choose (which may include but not limited to: piss poor wages, deflated exchange rate, bribery).



How dare you? Apple is the only company that is anti-capitalist!!!! THE ONLY ONE!!!!


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 15, 2012)

INSTG8R said:


> Ford you do realize that Samsung actually has the lead in phones right now right? All your "chest beating" is for nothing. Samsung is winning.....


Because they sell many phones in Windows Phone and Android markets.  They even sell lots of cheapy phones with custom operating systems--not just smart phones.  Apple also sued Samsung, and won, not long after Samsung took the lead...


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 15, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> All this talk about Apple releasing products at non-competitive prices (which is bullshit since I can name 10 ultrabooks that have similar specs for similar or higher costs), and their "monopolistic" business tactics that stifle market progress that give them an unfair advantage over competition because of the legacy they've created for themselves through various aspects of their business operations is wrong? They don't have a right to prosper in this CAPITALIST economy because they've done things right and they took on the risks that other manufacturers did not, and only did so after those risks proved successful for Apple?



They are just doing what microsoft did in the 1990s. Apple has caught on to it and they are doing it. Apple just want a monopoly on their end. Period.



Kantastic said:


> Nokia has no brand recognition in the smartphone industry for the US. You can argue that the Lumia 710 or 900 are quality phones, but I haven't seen a single person use it, ever, and I live in *NYC*. They also turned net losses on their operations in 2011. I guess some companies are a little more rational in their cost-benefit assessments prior to undermining risks, the same quality that sets Apple apart from your parade of manufacturers who are being abused by Apple because Apple is a monopoly.
> 
> 
> 
> Building a bigger phone and adding an expansion slot is not black magic, anybody can do it. But I'm sure Apple you'll find a tangential between Apple's monopolistic values to their refusal to add certain features to their phones. And it'll all make sense to you! Perfect sense!!!



Thats why you haven't seen the Nokias, because everyone is so hip and sleek they need the iphone to match their ways.


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 15, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Because they sell many phones in Windows Phone and Android markets.  They even sell lots of cheapy phones with custom operating systems--not just smart phones.  Apple also sued Samsung, and won, not long after Samsung took the lead...



So tell Samsung to stop selling parts to Apple. Oh wait, Samsung can't because THE CONTRACT IS TOO LUCRATIVE. At least some companies value capitalism; too bad some diehard fanboys don't and go on rampages bashing competition for being more successful.




MxPhenom 216 said:


> They are just doing what microsoft did in the 1990s. Apple has caught on to it and they are doing it. Apple just want a monopoly on their end. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats why you haven't seen the Nokias, because everyone is so hip and sleek they need the iphone to match their ways.



You've never been to NYC have you? Are you also the kind of person who thinks Hawaiians surf to school every morning? Or all Asians are good at math? All Indians good at IT? All Africans good at sports?



FordGT90Concept said:


> They were selling their Lumia 900 for a loss...
> 
> 
> 
> Whe's the last time you tried to hammer in a nail with your smartphone?  Nokia's quality far exceeds Apple's.



When was the last time you accidentally hammered a nail with your smartphone? Oh right, never. WAIT A MOMENT!! GASP!!! SELLING NOKIA LUMIAS AT A LOST?!!??!?! Pretty sure that right there is anti-capitalistic (for reasons you know and deny), but you seem to be perfectly okay with that. I guess you're always right huh?


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 15, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> So tell Samsung to stop selling parts to Apple. Oh wait, Samsung can't because THE CONTRACT IS TOO LUCRATIVE. At least some companies value capitalism; too bad some diehard fanboys don't and go on rampages bashing competition for being more successful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If i lived in Hawaii id surf to school. No need for a car, and paying gas prices.

But seriously, Samsung could stop selling parts to Apple if they really wanted too. They would lose a bit of money, but end result would be Apple would basically be screwed until they find someone who can make their parts again. If Samsung had balls they would stop giving apple parts.


----------



## erocker (Sep 15, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> You've never been to NYC have you? Are you also the kind of person who thinks Hawaiians surf to school every morning? Or all Asians are good at math? All Indians good at IT? All Africans good at sports?



Going a bit off topic are we? This has nothing to do with the topic, please get off your high-horse and quit the flamebaiting.

thanks


----------



## Kantastic (Sep 15, 2012)

erocker said:


> Going a bit off topic are we? This has nothing to do with the topic, please get off your high-horse and quit the flamebaiting.
> 
> thanks



High horse? Explain to me what high horse I'm on. This thread has been a flame-bait since page 2, I'm just joining the party. And I'm sure Mx isn't flame-baiting when he stereotypes and generalizes an entire population. Nope, nopenopenope.


----------



## erocker (Sep 15, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> High horse? Explain to me what high horse I'm on. This thread has been a flame-bait since page 2, I'm just joining the party. And I'm sure Mx isn't flame-baiting when he stereotypes and generalizes an entire population. Nope, nopenopenope.



You started this thread. Participating in the flame-bait tells me that the usefulness of this thread is past its expiration.


----------

