# Ocean currents and hydropower, solving the worlds energy problems without fusion dreams?



## Space Lynx (Oct 14, 2021)

So @R-T-B and I were having a discussion, it got me thinking about something since Wash State has hydro power, same with British Columbia, really benefits that region of the world immensely.

If the ocean currents are predictable, and we already have the capability of laying wires entire ocean lengths (aka fiber optic internets in the oceans) would it not be possible to use one of the ocean currents near a coastline to generate underwater hydropower for us? Giant spinning wheel things (probably completely underwater? the currents are stronger under the water yes, a perfect anchor balance system to keep them in place floating correctly?), laying right in the path of the current, to generate the power, and then (fill in blank here with a bunch of genius scientists and engineers who figure out some things I don't know what I am talking about) the giant insulated cables of electricity will instantly transport the energy (since like fiber optics it will travel at speed o light or near speed of light since it is pure energy) -straight into a country or state?

I know I am probably going to get a bunch of that is impossible responses, I am well aware, but that is not why I am asking this, I am asking if it is possible, even a 1% chance?

@TheLostSwede thoughts? or has the madness finally taken hold and I no longer make sense? I do hope not, for as Bilbo likes to say, I would like one more adventure please



also side topic -  problem with fusion is melting stuff right? would fusion be more possible in depths of the cold ocean and the way gravity works down at certain depths? and then giant insulated cables to transfer the energy back to the main land? no no don't answer this one, the madness truly has taken hold!  but answer the hydropower one!


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## R-T-B (Oct 14, 2021)

I think it would probably screw with ocean fish migrations not to mention the immense construction cost.  Honestly a system harnessing tidal forces is probably more realistic.  Tides go in and out regularly...  but beachfront is EXPENSIVE because tourism.

As a kid, I thought it'd be fun/useful to build a giant spinning compass centered right on the north pole to harness for power...  doubt that'd work either lol.


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## Space Lynx (Oct 14, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I think it would probably screw with ocean fish migrations not to mention the immense construction cost.  Honestly a system harnessing tidal forces is probably more realistic.



tidal forces are too small and the back and forth is not consistent imo.

and the ocean currents are massive, even a power wheel big enough to generate energy for an entire city like Los Angeles would probably be a fraction of the space needed in the current itself.  could be buoyed nets around the wheels too, cheap enough to keep most fish to just go around, no diff then if they had to go around any other obstacle like an iceberg or small island.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 14, 2021)

Maybe make a generator that works using the crush power deep in the ocean?


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## R-T-B (Oct 14, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Maybe make a generator that works using the crush power deep in the ocean?


Crush power is one way.  Not really cyclic like a generator needs.




lynx29 said:


> tidal forces are too small


When you consider the area the force is actually quite massive (like incredibly so actually) but you'll never get an entire coastline like that.  Beachfront is too expensive.

Plus I am certain this would effect tide pool life.


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## Space Lynx (Oct 14, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Crush power is one way.  Not really cyclic like a generator needs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



this is kind of my point too, tides are too rough.  where as an underwater wheel with an ocean current is more predictable, more easily calculated, and less prone to say weather events and such (assuming an underwater wheel is possible), coastal underwater is still effected to much by weather events



Tigger said:


> Maybe make a generator that works using the crush power deep in the ocean?



I see your thinking here, but I think rtb is right on this, it has the cyclical in nature to generate power, unless its something that rotates, and would expand back to normal shape once it rose to a certain dpeth, then back down again, and the crushing part generates some energy? no idea


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 14, 2021)

Well maybe we need non cyclic generators. Could piezo be used of some sort to generate power by crushing?


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## Space Lynx (Oct 14, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Well maybe we need non cyclic generators. Could piezo be used of some sort to generate power by crushing?



you will have to give me a link, I have never heard of that word in my life lol


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## 1freedude (Oct 14, 2021)

Back in '14, I devised a way to harness tidal energy....use the weight of falling mass to ratchet another mass.  The tide coming in would then lift the previously falling mass to high tide level, then fall again, ratcheting the other mass up higher.  After the mass being lifted by the falling mass has reached a satisfactory height, let it fall and use it however you want...spin some magnets, pump water...

Well, after doing a small bit of research, come to find out, Boeing has the patent on it, from '08.  I was a few years away.

Capturing the mass of high tide is the answer, not the motion of the water going back and forth.


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## the54thvoid (Oct 14, 2021)

Tidal power is a thing already. But it's prohibitively expensive to create and the maintenance of infrastructure with moving parts in an ocean environment is exceptionally fraught. Also, as has been noted, drawing down on tidal currents impacts all manner of marine life.

Here's a brief summary of tidal sources.





__





						Tidal power - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
					

Tidal power for electricity generation and locations of tidal power facilities around the world.




					www.eia.gov
				




Also, of note:









						Brown crabs find underwater power cables 'difficult to resist'
					

A study says more should be done to ensure offshore wind farms using the power cables do not affect the crustaceans.



					www.bbc.co.uk


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## Space Lynx (Oct 14, 2021)

1freedude said:


> Back in '14, I devised a way to harness tidal energy....use the weight of falling mass to ratchet another mass.  The tide coming in would then lift the previously falling mass to high tide level, then fall again, ratcheting the other mass up higher.  After the mass being lifted by the falling mass has reached a satisfactory height, let it fall and use it however you want...spin some magnets, pump water...
> 
> Well, after doing a small bit of research, come to find out, Boeing has the patent on it, from '08.  I was a few years away.
> 
> Capturing the mass of high tide is the answer, not the motion of the water going back and forth.



you do not think there is a 1% chance the ocean current one is a good idea? i feel like the tides is very wearing on the gear used due to the high impact of its motion state as you said it must go higher and SLAM coming back down, where as a giant ass wheel on a ocean current would be smooth and steady.

also would it be possible to spray/paint/infuse the giant wheel with one of those new nano things that reflect like 99% of water, making it spin faster and reducing corrosion of the salt?



the54thvoid said:


> Tidal power is a thing already. But it's prohibitively expensive to create and the maintenance of infrastructure with moving parts in an ocean environment is exceptionally fraught. Also, as has been noted, drawing down on tidal currents impacts all manner of marine life.
> 
> Here's a brief summary of tidal sources.
> 
> ...



brown crabs won't be anywhere near an ocean current. i am not talking about tidal he was


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 14, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I think it would probably screw with ocean fish migrations not to mention the immense construction cost.  Honestly a system harnessing tidal forces is probably more realistic.  Tides go in and out regularly...  but beachfront is EXPENSIVE because tourism.
> 
> As a kid, I thought it'd be fun/useful to build a giant spinning compass centered right on the north pole to harness for power...  doubt that'd work either lol.


Now that I'd like to see, just the odd Ness of it would be worth it.

I think they're is plenty of opportunity with wave and ocean power but I like the self thermal pumped water power idea using massive pipes that go way down to the bottom of a deep ocean with thermally conductive walls , you may have to start it off before it gets going enough to attach a turbine but I saw a successful attempt somewhere on the web,.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 14, 2021)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectricity


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## dragontamer5788 (Oct 14, 2021)

Turns out that salt-water causes galvanic corrosion, meaning any metal machine you make will fall apart in a year or so. (Ships get around this with Zinc plates: carefully making the Zinc fall apart while keeping the rest of the ship usable). As such, any machine you make in the ocean: be it to gather wind or tidal energy, will corrode astonishingly quickly... grossly raising the price of maintenance.

Plastic might work in theory, but has other issues, such as microfractures and the like. Steel is used for machinery because steel is really good at the job (despite corroding away in these conditions). Steel is also cheaper per unit strength.

Steel and concrete works for dams because that's freshwater, and our techniques of battling corrosion work a lot better on freshwater rather than salt-water. It will, at a minimum, only make sense to try to make salt-water energy harvest plants _AFTER_ we've exhausted our fresh-water sources (where these problems are easier to deal with).


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## Shrek (Oct 14, 2021)

What about a heat engine, the sea surface is warmer than the depth; the efficiency is hideous, but that is not a problem with the sea so large.


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## 1freedude (Oct 14, 2021)

Wave power generation - Electrical e-Library.com
					

This post subject is wave power generation from sea. This is an alternative of clean and renewable power source which can complement with other renewable power sources.




					www.electricalelibrary.com
				






lynx29 said:


> you do not think there is a 1% chance the ocean current one is a good idea? i feel like the tides is very wearing on the gear used due to the high impact of its motion state as you said it must go higher and SLAM coming back down, where as a giant ass wheel on a ocean current would be smooth and steady.
> 
> also would it be possible to spray/paint/infuse the giant wheel with one of those new nano things that reflect like 99% of water, making it spin faster and reducing corrosion of the salt?
> 
> ...


Never said slam.  The mass is attached to a rope or line, and wrapped around an axel.  As it falls, the axel will spin


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## R-T-B (Oct 14, 2021)

I do like the spitballing of ideas, even if impractical.  Cool thread Lynx, energy generation and improving it has always been a fun thought experiment for me.


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## 1freedude (Oct 14, 2021)

Completely agree, frog.  Now, I own tidal riparian rights.


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## Space Lynx (Oct 14, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> Turns out that salt-water causes galvanic corrosion, meaning any metal machine you make will fall apart in a year or so. (Ships get around this with Zinc plates: carefully making the Zinc fall apart while keeping the rest of the ship usable). As such, any machine you make in the ocean: be it to gather wind or tidal energy, will corrode astonishingly quickly... grossly raising the price of maintenance.
> 
> Plastic might work in theory, but has other issues, such as microfractures and the like. Steel is used for machinery because steel is really good at the job (despite corroding away in these conditions). Steel is also cheaper per unit strength.
> 
> Steel and concrete works for dams because that's freshwater, and our techniques of battling corrosion work a lot better on freshwater rather than salt-water. It will, at a minimum, only make sense to try to make salt-water energy harvest plants _AFTER_ we've exhausted our fresh-water sources (where these problems are easier to deal with).



I don't see why we couldn't use some advanced very thick plastic for the turbine part of it? it only needs to spin, the steel parts can be encased somehow



R-T-B said:


> I do like the spitballing of ideas, even if impractical.  Cool thread Lynx, energy generation and improving it has always been a fun thought experiment for me.



ty!


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## Shrek (Oct 14, 2021)

Stainless steel is good at resisting corrosion.


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## dragontamer5788 (Oct 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I don't see why we couldn't use some advanced very thick plastic for the turbine part of it? it only needs to spin, the steel parts can be encased somehow



The classical solution is yes, plastic (though you may know it in terms of another word: polyurethane paint). When we look at large metalic structures over salt-water (ex: Golden Gate Bridge), we can see that the maintenance tasks include replacing said plastic component (aka: the paint) every 7 years or so.

Its a totally different story if you have moving parts that have wear-and-tear however. I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but you can talk to any boating dude about the maintenance tasks they do on their boats to keep things working. Its a rather substantial schedule: taking care of a boat is a lot of work (and really, an ocean turbine would be just a "backwards boat", where instead of injecting energy into the water, you're gathering energy from the water).

So yeah, as far as I'm concerned, you're basically proposing to make a stationary boat: taking energy from the waves rather than moving through the waves. So your maintenance tasks are probably really, really similar to what sailors will deal with.


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## Shrek (Oct 14, 2021)

I think phosphoric acid may also help to turn the rust into iron phosphate.


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## dragontamer5788 (Oct 14, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Stainless steel is good at resisting corrosion.



Resisting yes, but saltwater is very, very VERY corrosive. By my understanding, most boats today use sacrificial zinc or something like that (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_anode), in addition to using corrosion resistant materials (like "stainless steel").

Sure, your stainless steel knife does fine in household usage. But that's not a saltwater ocean, you've got a very big difference in how much "corrosion" is going on.



Andy Shiekh said:


> I think phosphoric acid may also help to turn the rust into iron phosphate.



Rust does things to machines: rust is bigger (so if it happens in a concrete-rebar, your rebar "grows" and will crack the concrete). And when you have things that change in size/shape, it becomes really hard to make precision machinery like gears.

And you need gears to get a turbine to work at all. So yeah, rust is the enemy. Heck, rust is an enemy on a bridge, let alone in a complicated machine like a turbine. It won't take much rust to turn a gear into the wrong shape, and then everything in your machine stops working.


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## Space Lynx (Oct 14, 2021)

dragontamer5788 said:


> The classical solution is yes, plastic (though you may know it in terms of another word: polyurethane paint). When we look at large metalic structures over salt-water (ex: Golden Gate Bridge), we can see that the maintenance tasks include replacing said plastic component (aka: the paint) every 7 years or so.
> 
> Its a totally different story if you have moving parts that have wear-and-tear however. I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but you can talk to any boating dude about the maintenance tasks they do on their boats to keep things working. Its a rather substantial schedule: taking care of a boat is a lot of work (and really, an ocean turbine would be just a "backwards boat", where instead of injecting energy into the water, you're gathering energy from the water).
> 
> So yeah, as far as I'm concerned, you're basically proposing to make a stationary boat: taking energy from the waves rather than moving through the waves. So your maintenance tasks are probably really, really similar to what sailors will deal with.



they have tidal waves generating energy now in salt water, and those are taking way more of a punishment than this idea would be... that salt is slamming into tidal wave generators/turbines.  and mine would be more of a gentle flow. so if they can do it, so we can. and better to boot!


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## InVasMani (Oct 15, 2021)

It's not complicated figure it out. They got to the damn moon and they made a bomb that goes boom I'm a mushroom they can figure this out.


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## Fourstaff (Oct 15, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> It's not complicated figure it out. They got to the damn moon and they made a bomb that goes boom I'm a mushroom they can figure this out.


The technology and capability to do it is here. Its just too expensive vs other power sources e.g. wind or sun. Thus, this is currently a very niche power source unless we can make it way cheaper.


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## Totally (Oct 15, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Stainless steel is good at resisting corrosion.



Not in a saltwater environment. It just corrodes differently. It will corrode slower but it won't buy that much time. That's why anything metal regardless of material that is in frequent contact saltwater use sacrificial anodes, usu. made out of zinc, as the main method of fighting corrosion.


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## R-T-B (Oct 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> they have tidal waves generating energy now in salt water, and those are taking way more of a punishment than this idea would be... that salt is slamming into tidal wave generators/turbines.  and mine would be more of a gentle flow. so if they can do it, so we can. and better to boot!


The issue I see is anchoring.  Ocean currents are probably in deep water.  What are we tethering this whole assembly too?  How does the power get out to somewhere useful?  I mean I guess we could just use the power locally and make a Dolphin resort but I think we're going to want to get it to the mainland.


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## InVasMani (Oct 15, 2021)

Why even put them under the ocean just anchor a oversized mill wheel like a ferris wheel above the ocean and submerge it to the sweet spot balance. Then you can put the motor above ocean level and water proof it. Store the energy in capacitors and winning they last a long damn time and store a ton of energy for fast charging Tesla cars.



R-T-B said:


> The issue I see is anchoring.  Ocean currents are probably in deep water.  What are we tethering this whole assembly too?  How does the power get out to somewhere useful?  I mean I guess we could just use the power locally and make a Dolphin resort but I think we're going to want to get it to the mainland.


Just anchor them enough that they don't move much and can send out message with some GPS tracking and monitoring. Hell the satillates could even keep track of them getting out of sync beyond a certain point and have ships drag and realign them periodically. Who cares they move around a little long as they function and can be relocated back in place with moderate ease. They already put windmills out on the ocean offshore how is this that much more difficult?


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## R-T-B (Oct 15, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> Why even put them under the ocean


Because the currents are presumably underwater.  If they aren't, without an anchor, the craft is just going to drift.

EDIT:  Oh, you mean the wheel vs generator housing.  Sorry, misunderstood.


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## InVasMani (Oct 15, 2021)

There is still plenty of ocean waves above water though. Who cares if it drifts if you can pull it back in place and track it when it gets too far out of place with satellites from space and GPS tracking. In fact with some rotor adjustments the whole float could probably realign itself over time and shift around within a certain radius in circles with subtle adjustments.


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## Totally (Oct 15, 2021)

How is this different from tidal power generation?





__





						Tidal Energy and How it Works – N-Sci Technologies
					





					nsci.ca
				




From what I gathered after a bit of research, it takes too many pieces of the right pieces to fall into place to be effective. The biggest drawback in my eyes is that the turbines disrupt whatever current that is being harnessed, which put a hard ceiling on the potential. To compare with solar if you want to increase the power output just add more panels, in the case of tidal generation adding another turbine would incurr a penalty to output due to the added disruption.


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## ThaiTaffy (Oct 15, 2021)

So personally I think apart from Moore's law most technology and development has stagnated, thanks to the speed in which computers have evolved we now have breakthroughs in many fields such as fusion reactions, medicine and so on.

 There are many interesting theories that would solve our power requirements but I think the rich and powerful have so much invested in the current status quo and not using money to develop the planet that we have become stuck.

From the industrial revolution to WWII if there was a theory it was instantly developed and put into action. Although most of the current big energy theories such as Dyson sphere's and so on seem impossible with our current skill set, I'm sure there are many that we could implement but are unaware because they are simply brushed under the rug so to speak.

We as a planet need to stop this throw away mentality if we are to have a sustainable energy source it needs to have low production/maintenance compared to lifespan, I hope fusion will be the answer.


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## joemama (Oct 15, 2021)

Figuring out a way to produce electricity from the ocean isn't the main issue here, the main issue should be the cost and maintenance.


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## ThaiTaffy (Oct 15, 2021)

joemama said:


> Figuring out a way to produce electricity from the ocean isn't the main issue here, the main issue should be the cost and maintenance.


Exactly the majority of these "Green" things were sold have a limited lifespan and just end up being landfill same as any other commodity, solar panels 20-25 years,lithium batteries 2-3years, electric motor used in cars 15-20 years pushing us to buy more and more we need to overhaul our way of thinking.

 If a wind turbine, solar panel or tidal system needs a complete overhaul within so many years is it really sustainable energy, although I'm unsure of the wearable parts and how often they need changing things like the hoover dam seem sustainable. Great hunks of concrete that produce energy at the cost of changing the surrounding eco system.

We should at least look at making these modern sustainable options more maintenance friendly.


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## dorsetknob (Oct 15, 2021)

Think your looking at this problem wrong
whats needed is on shore fresh water managment.
The Problems mankind face is Food and more important Fresh water Shortages.
Suitable land needs development as water reservoirs.
These can be utilised as Hydro power generation
Fresh water aqua agriculture including farming fish for protein.
HE Turbine waste water diverted to Agrarian use   ie crop Irrigation and water processing plants for potable drinking water.

You Don't need power unless your population has food and potable Water Security.

Want an Example
look to Saudi Arabia

they have invested massive amounts of money in Desalination plants so they can provide water for their people and their agriculture (they are trying to farm on Desert sand ). They also considered towing Ice burgs from Antarctica to mine for water. Ultimately they will fail due to climate change.
With Climate change driving up Temps Vast Swathes of land between the Tropics will become uninhabitable without Technological intervention. This is going to drive Global migration as people seek Food and Water Security.
Wars will Occur as Nations seek water security.

Hint  "one is already Brewing in East Africa" as Egypt / Sudan /Ethiopia squabble about the Resorces on the Nile River.


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## R-T-B (Oct 15, 2021)

ThaiTaffy said:


> Exactly the majority of these "Green" things were sold have a limited lifespan and just end up being landfill same as any other commodity, solar panels 20-25 years,lithium batteries 2-3years, electric motor used in cars 15-20 years pushing us to buy more and more we need to overhaul our way of thinking.
> 
> If a wind turbine, solar panel or tidal system needs a complete overhaul within so many years is it really sustainable energy, although I'm unsure of the wearable parts and how often they need changing things like the hoover dam seem sustainable. Great hunks of concrete that produce energy at the cost of changing the surrounding eco system.
> 
> We should at least look at making these modern sustainable options more maintenance friendly.


I don't know what part of "giant spinning compass on the north pole" sounded maintanenence intensive to you, but I assure you the sheer awesome of the thing would make up for it.

Going back to serious, I think wind power could work well on some windy seas.  I believe the north sea may be a good example.


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## ThaiTaffy (Oct 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I don't know what part of "giant spinning compass on the north pole" sounded maintanenence intensive to you, but I assure you the sheer awesome of the thing would make up for it.


This has been theorised over and over and the fact the magnet field is almost static would mean the coil would need to be moved, which would most likely consume more energy than it produced. So maintenance and cost don't really come into it. 

Also the earth's magnetic field is considered pretty weak like 0.5% the strength of a fridge magnet so the likelihood of it turning anything but a compass is slim.


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## dorsetknob (Oct 15, 2021)

ThaiTaffy said:


> This has been theorised over and over and the fact the magnet field is almost static would mean the coil would need to be moved, which would most likely consume more energy than it produced. So maintenance and cost don't really come into it.



Magnetic north was drifting at a rate of up to about 9 miles (15 km) a year. Since the 1990s, however, the drift of Earth's magnetic north pole has turned into “more of a sprint,” scientists say. Its present speed is *about 30 to nearly 40 miles a year (50-60 km a year) toward Siberia*.

currently drifting over the polar Ice cap


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## R-T-B (Oct 15, 2021)

ThaiTaffy said:


> This has been theorised over and over and the fact the magnet field is almost static would mean the coil would need to be moved, which would most likely consume more energy than it produced. So maintenance and cost don't really come into it.
> 
> Also the earth's magnetic field is considered pretty weak like 0.5% the strength of a fridge magnet so the likelihood of it turning anything but a compass is slim.


I know it wouldn't actually work.  That was kind of the joke.


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## ThaiTaffy (Oct 15, 2021)

dorsetknob said:


> Magnetic north was drifting at a rate of up to about 9 miles (15 km) a year. Since the 1990s, however, the drift of Earth's magnetic north pole has turned into “more of a sprint,” scientists say. Its present speed is *about 30 to nearly 40 miles a year (50-60 km a year) toward Siberia*.
> 
> currently drifting over the polar Ice cap


Ok consider me more informed but that surely makes the idea more impractical moving a giant ocelating magnet 150m every day.

I still think solar is our best bet if we could make it more maintainable, copper impregnated glass and ceramic with a serviceable semiconductor layer surely would be the way to go. Since the first solar boom's panels are at end of their lifespan the development of semiconductor recycling has come on very fast so if that's possible why recycle the whole panel.


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## dorsetknob (Oct 15, 2021)

Pleanty of Geo-active Volcanic area's
apart from Infrastructue investment its low cost Power
Iceland basicly runs on Geo thermal power


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## ThaiTaffy (Oct 15, 2021)

dorsetknob said:


> Plenty of Geo-active Volcanic area's
> apart from Infrastructure investment its low cost Power
> Iceland basically runs on Geo thermal power


Yes!! Things like this and dam's have large initial costs but will last especially if engineered well but that isn't available to everyone and greed plays a big part also. Look at the crypto mine running in El Salvador surely it would be better to power the country but no let's grab some bitcoin.

 Back to the hoover dam, it was built to last generations but much of the current worlds Infrastructure was made to last less than one generation, China has massive amounts of buildings lasting less than a decade ,crumbling because of poor quality metal and in some cases bamboo being used instead of rebar.

Our throw away society has gotten worse and worse as dorsket said we need to focus on producing sustainable food and water and start only using products that will last, can be repaired or easily recycled.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I do like the spitballing of ideas, even if impractical.  Cool thread Lynx, energy generation and improving it has always been a fun thought experiment for me.


Indeed, a solutions thread is much better than moaning about the situation in any other way or thread.

Fully agree such that a thumbs up wasn't enough.


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## thebluebumblebee (Oct 15, 2021)

Oregon State University is one of the leading researchers into this potential energy source.
https://www.oregon.gov/energy/energy-oregon/Pages/Marine.aspx

But to me, the big question isn't whether we can, but whether we should.  Ocean currents and tides are VERY important for life on this planet.  The Gulf Stream for instance is why Norway is inhabitable and Great Britain has such a mild climate for as far north as it is. Man has a bad track record of not understanding how things are interrelated.  I even have concerns about wind power which pulls energy from a system (the atmosphere) and we don't even seem to question it's affects.

Edit: I should have used this link: https://pmec.oregonstate.edu/


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 15, 2021)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Oregon State University is one of the leading researchers into this potential energy source.
> https://www.oregon.gov/energy/energy-oregon/Pages/Marine.aspx
> 
> But to me, the big question isn't whether we can, but whether we should.  Ocean currents and tides are VERY important for life on this planet.  The Gulf Stream for instance is why Norway is inhabitable and Great Britain has such a mild climate for as far north as it is. Man has a bad track record of not understanding how things are interrelated.  I even have concerns about wind power which pulls energy from a system (the atmosphere) and we don't even seem to question it's affects.


It does erk me a bit that we went from hyped butterfly effect to f butterflies in a heartbeat.


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## InVasMani (Oct 15, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I don't know what part of "giant spinning compass on the north pole" sounded maintanenence intensive to you, but I assure you the sheer awesome of the thing would make up for it.
> 
> Going back to serious, I think wind power could work well on some windy seas.  I believe the north sea may be a good example.


Since we are bringing up the subject of the north pole and by extension south pole that is where magnetic fields are at it's strongest. There has got to be a good way to tap into that magnetic energy.


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## ThaiTaffy (Oct 15, 2021)

InVasMani said:


> Since we are bringing up the subject of the north pole and by extension south pole that is where magnetic fields are at it's strongest. There has got to be a good way to tap into that magnetic energy.


As I pointed out earlier earth's magnetic field might be big but it isn't strong.
The only natural magnetic fields that could viably produce electricity would be those from solar flares hence why we have issues with power grids when they hit us.


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## InVasMani (Oct 15, 2021)

Just seems like these discussions on alternative energy speak of anything that isn't solar it just circles back to solar so it feels like a waste to even talk about them.


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## Shrek (Oct 15, 2021)

Heat engine... using the temperature difference betwixt the surface and deep.


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## Ferd (Oct 15, 2021)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Oregon State University is one of the leading researchers into this potential energy source.
> https://www.oregon.gov/energy/energy-oregon/Pages/Marine.aspx
> 
> But to me, the big question isn't whether we can, but whether we should.  Ocean currents and tides are VERY important for life on this planet.  The Gulf Stream for instance is why Norway is inhabitable and Great Britain has such a mild climate for as far north as it is. Man has a bad track record of not understanding how things are interrelated.  I even have concerns about wind power which pulls energy from a system (the atmosphere) and we don't even seem to question it's affects.
> ...


This reminded me of some sci-fi movie where aliens invade planet and “suck” all its energy.... except in this case we are playing the role of the aliens....

Energy can’t be created nor destroyed, but it can be transformed, we are transforming the planet’s energy to do some work like electrical, mechanical energies but we also give the planet a lot of waste and garbage to deal with which is bad and already showing it’s effects on climate 

I think first thing should be studied is the planet’s ability to recover the energy lost and figure out a maximum amount that can be extracted/transformed and work from there to find energy source solutions, not the other way around, which is what we’re doing right now , ie , we find a way to harvest energy and use it until we see side effects then we start thinking about alternatives


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## sepheronx (Oct 15, 2021)

dorsetknob said:


> Think your looking at this problem wrong
> whats needed is on shore fresh water managment.
> The Problems mankind face is Food and more important Fresh water Shortages.
> Suitable land needs development as water reservoirs.
> ...



Well, it mostly has to do with the dam in Ethiopia that is causing some troubles.  But even with that said, Torrential rain still causes major flooding in countries such as South Sudan (in their part of the Nile) where a lot of technology could be used there in order to create some kind of reservoir for water.

But that country is so under developed that I dont think it will ever get that kind of development until Egypt tells others to take a hike and invests in South Sudan bypassing any kind of sanctions.

You are 100% though on the food/water part.  Something most ignore.  China already has a problem and pays Russia for example a decent Premium for Baikal fresh water.  They tried to open a bottling plant but it caused a major uproar from the population that the government intervened and stopped it.


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## mb194dc (Oct 15, 2021)

Fusion power is decades away most probably. Don't see ocean currents being much better and potentially could interfere with marine ecosystems.

Geothermal is where it's at. Need to utilise the heat from within the earth. Just need to dig down and figure out how best to convert it to electricity.


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## InVasMani (Oct 15, 2021)

Thermoelectric generators needs more innovation. If it had any anywhere near the the level of innovation of these nm chips I have to imagine they would work quite well. Thinking about it further 3D stacking them with TSV would really help improving the process for chip technology in turn. Basically you could a 3D stacked TEG that you cool on one end and heat on the other, but produces quite a lot of energy in turn. On another note with TEG's once they improve wearable ones we can put them on cows for free energy while they live in the matrix.


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