# How many of you Radeon 5700 owners have ditched your cards over the drivers?



## dirtyferret (Feb 15, 2020)

Is this issue epidemic, overblown, or somewhere in-between?









						Gamers are ditching Radeon graphics cards over driver issues
					

As I planned and was beginning to run our next big graphics card benchmark test, I felt I had to shift gears to discuss AMD's driver woes...




					www.techspot.com


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## EarthDog (Feb 15, 2020)

Somewhere inbetween imo.

Since adrenalin 2020 came on the scene 12/2019 (and perhaps before that with 5700 series launch) they've seemingly been in scramble to correct issues. Fixes since adrenalin 2020 came out have come in on a more frequent basis and the lists are long (known issues and fixes). Seems there is really an issue as the complaints are real...and amd even commented on the 2020 driver issues. Something is amiss. There is no doubt in my mind nvidia cards, today and for the past few months, have a more stable driver ecosystem. Sure, they are more mature, but even when turing was launched it wasn't bad at all. Certainly not what we are seeing now.

That said, after reviewing several RDNA cards (5500xt to 5700xt) using a couple of drivers, I havent run into an issue in any of the titles we test.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 15, 2020)

Ironically this is the one thing AMD manages to be consistent in... there is always _something_ with the driver suite.

If its just that specific issue that hits your use case, you're screwed, and the next update is always quite far away. Also,  many things are made bigger than they really are. But then again... why doesn't it just work fine?

Nvidia is also not perfect at this and has dropped the ball from time to time. But they do pick it up fast.


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## HD64G (Feb 15, 2020)

Not any problem since the driver 20.1.3. The early 2020 edition ones had problems but not disastrous ones.


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## Durvelle27 (Feb 15, 2020)

I'll be honest

When i got the RX 5700 XT 50th Anniversary at launch it was a crap show and performance was a hit or miss. It just didn't work well at all for me. Ditched it and kept my RTX 2070

Fast forward to now and i went back with a AIB RX 5700 flashed to XT and it has been running rock solid. Drivers have definitely improved since launch still some bugs but not as bad.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 15, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Is this issue epidemic, overblown, or somewhere in-between?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


way way overblown at this rate, I cant remember where but a site(Gamefaq cant refind poll though?) had a pole yesterday where the black screens and issues were indicated by a 12000 people vote at that time to be spread quite evenly between nvidia and AMD yet only AMD are in the news.

there are issues for some no doubt, they do need fixing no doubt, some are user error on tuning setup ,no doubt in my mind some are just odd.

I have had issues like these consistently across all bios and driver releases IF AND ONLY IF MY RAM WAS NOT 100000% stable 99,9% stable is not enough , thinking its stabel is not enough,make sure it's stable, I do and have 0 issues but have if i didn't test my tune and clean install the odd driver.

but largely I've had no issues, and it WASNT JUST THE 5700 anyway but, well.


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## IceShroom (Feb 15, 2020)

Hopefully this overblown issue will become more big  and kills AMD.

On side note : This indecates that AMD could have compatative 7nm GPU in their pipeline.


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## Rahnak (Feb 15, 2020)

Are the issues for RDNA cards or just about every AMD? I'm still running 19.12.2 and everything is fine.

I probably won't be looking at AMD for the next upgrade though.



IceShroom said:


> Hopefully this overblown issue will become more big  and kills AMD.


And that would help anyone how...?


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## dirtyferret (Feb 15, 2020)

IceShroom said:


> Hopefully this overblown issue will become more big  and kills AMD.


If AMD leaves the gpu market, nvidia will set outrageous prices with no competition.  I got my intel 9700k for less then a 3700x because of AMD not because intel wanted to place their cpus on sale.


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## Durvelle27 (Feb 15, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> Are the issues for RDNA cards or just about every AMD? I'm still running 19.12.2 and everything is fine.
> 
> I probably won't be looking at AMD for the next upgrade though.
> 
> ...


Seems only RDNA as my older GPUs have no issues

But for me drivers are much better now


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## efikkan (Feb 15, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Is this issue epidemic, overblown, or somewhere in-between?


Well, AMD have been plagued with some fundamental driver issues for years, so it's hard to tell if people are either finally coming to that realization, or if there has been an escalation of problems lately.
Edit: Perhaps the cause of the attention is many gamers returning to AMD and expecting the same driver quality of Nvidia?

At least one thing should be clear; Navi is nearly identical to Vega on an ISA level, and the Navi driver have only a few adjustments. If people experience new bugs on new driver releases, they should be consistent across Navi, Vega and Polaris, otherwise it's not a driver issue, but a firmware or hardware issue (or of course user error).

The fundamental driver issues for AMD have been causing stutter, random crashes and glitches for years. Several years ago I had one Radeon card in my secondary machine, and I had to throw in my old GTX 680 instead since the machine was not "usable" to my standards. These problems are caused by underlying problems in the driver core, and can't be patched with a workaround. Their driver engineers need to dig down deep and fix the problem, patchwork never truly works in software.

This is just a matter of priorities. AMD spend a lot of resources on assisting developers and "optimizing"(adding workarounds) games in their driver. If they only made driver quality their first priority and reserved some resources for this, they could become the king of graphics drivers. Until they do, it wouldn't matter how good their next GPUs are as long as their drivers are crap, and this is sad, we need AMD to do well. And no amount of fancy graphics in their control panel can make up for a faulty driver.

*Disclaimer:* not a Radeon 5700 owner.


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 15, 2020)

hwunboxed reported that return rate of navi gpus is 5x higher than previous generation,from what they have been told by one of amd's partners (or was it amazon?)


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## spectatorx (Feb 15, 2020)

Let me quote my own post from other forum on that exact topic:



> Agree, i have almost always been using ati/amd gpus and i was able to confirm other people issues literally 2, maybe 3 times. My secret to correct operation of all things is to perform clean windows install after swapping to new gpu and keep all drivers up to date to latest version, including chipset, soundcard, networking card and other devices. Also latest firmware/bios for all of them.
> I perform clean windows install twice a year, every time new rtm windows 10 build gets released. I'm avoiding upgrade because usually upgrades are causing many problems sooner or later, same way i go with my ubuntu, not just windows as the same applies to both of these OSes. About using ddu... i had to use it literally 3 times in last 5 years, i do not recommend using it as replacement of uninstaller provided with a driver and from posts i see on guru3d seems like many of you are using DDU that way, do not do it this way, stop it, literally. Wagnard will tell you exactly the same thing. This tool is not made to replace uninstaller, it is made to be a service tool which you should use as last step before windows reinstall in solving problems with gpu driver.
> 
> Good example for all these 5700/xt issues is hardware unboxed yt channel, they claim they do not have such severe issues or any actual real issues with their 5700/xt cards and are wondering what their viewers are talking about.
> ...


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 15, 2020)

people are saying it's gotten better - from unusable (black screen a couple of minutes into windows) to crashing every once in a while.



HD64G said:


> Not any problem since the driver 20.1.3. The early 2020 edition ones had problems but not disastrous ones.


still a problem apparently.
I mean for some users,if you're in the clear then be thankful.


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## IceShroom (Feb 15, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> If AMD leaves the gpu market, nvidia will set outrageous prices with no competition.  I got my intel 9700k for less then a 3700x because of AMD not because intel wanted to place their cpus on sale.


People dont care about price and Nvidia finiancial result for 2019 proves that.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 15, 2020)

spectatorx said:


> Let me quote my own post from other forum on that exact topic:



 I dont do that, i keep chipset drivers current, do clean driver installs.


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## dirtyferret (Feb 15, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> hwunboxed reported that return rate of navi gpus is 5x higher than previous generation,from what they have been told by one of amd's partners (or was it amazon?)


Unboxed and tech spot are the same, Steve who runs unboxed wrote the article I linked and mentioned that return rate


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 15, 2020)

IceShroom said:


> People dont care about price and Nvidia finiancial result for 2019 proves that.


Your general mindset is unhelpful and near useless to this site never mind thread, I'm glad you are wrong and people cannot be just put whole hog into the complete muppet basket ie yes some people might be daft but not many, most were born with intelligence and moreover 98% of the population of the world is financially restricted and DO CARE.


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## RandallFlagg (Feb 15, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Ironically this is the one thing AMD manages to be consistent in... there is always _something_ with the driver suite.
> 
> If its just that specific issue that hits your use case, you're screwed, and the next update is always quite far away. Also,  many things are made bigger than they really are. But then again... why doesn't it just work fine?
> 
> Nvidia is also not perfect at this and has dropped the ball from time to time. But they do pick it up fast.




This has always been my experience too, and I'm talking about over the course of 20 years.  There was a time for me when 'value' to save $30 and get similar performance was worth it, but that time has long since past.  If I have to spend half a Saturday uninstalling - reinstalling or god forbid doing a complete rebuild from the OS up, that is a total loser for me.  Now I will gladly pay an extra $100, or even $200, to not have to waste my time.


I love AMD, don't get me wrong, but it's for this reason that I have been on Nvidia cards for the past 10 years.   Now, AMD CPUs, that's a whole different topic.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 15, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> If AMD leaves the gpu market, nvidia will set outrageous prices with no competition.  I got my intel 9700k for less then a 3700x because of AMD not because intel wanted to place their cpus on sale.



Thats the status quo right now and the outcome is thesame. Prices are already inflated and it went that way from the moment AMD stopped competing in high end. It trickles down and now they even struggle in mid range; look at all the Navi trickery with pricing and performance.

People seem to miss that it already turned to shit years ago...

AMD GPU replaced by something new would be best. But... who?


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## IceShroom (Feb 15, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Your general mindset is unhelpful and near useless to this site never mind thread, I'm glad you are wrong and people cannot be just put whole hog into the complete muppet basket ie yes some people might be daft but not many, most were born with intelligence and moreover 98% of the population of the world is financially restricted and DO CARE.


But in reality Nvidia has 75-80% market share. If people are not buying "overpriced" Nvidia card then how Nvidia gained that much market share. Simple people dont care about price, they care about performence.


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## bug (Feb 15, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Is this issue epidemic, overblown, or somewhere in-between?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


5x the return rate tells me it surely isn't overblown. It's not (too) epidemic either, the author says it's possible to run several cards without a hitch. But being unable to at least find the source of the problems for more than half a year sure doesn't do AMD any favor.

Also, please stop feeding the ice troll. He will go on forever and won't produce any arguments.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 15, 2020)

IceShroom said:


> But in reality Nvidia has 75-80% market share. If people are not buying "overpriced" Nvidia card then how Nvidia gained that much market share. Simple people dont care about price, they care about performence.


But but But, in reality, that is not relevant,, ,             ,There are a great many reasons why Nvidia have been successful and I would discredit none HERE, However, that means absolutely F all to this thread and your just being controversial some might say trolly for your own reasons.

PRICE?, that is not the point of this thread, neither is the eternal fanboi argument between Nvidia and AMD.


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## delshay (Feb 15, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> Seems only RDNA as my older GPUs have no issues
> 
> But for me drivers are much better now



No problems here either & i'm running a much older computer than most users (939). They did break AOTS in the last three drivers but it's fixed in the latest driver. They did break it three times since I have owned this game, so I'm very confident they will break it again then fix it.

R9 Nano


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## Ryzen_7 (Feb 15, 2020)

I've had issues with RX 580 (and overall with Ryzen platform, BIOS issues etc. to extent I cursed the day I ditched intel and nVIDIA for good) but it was polished out after some time. One of my acquaintances bought Vega 56 when it was hot product and replaced it with nVIDIA counterpart of that time because he got tired of driver issues.
Anyway, Radeon cards age like fine wine but many are not patient to wait this. When you pay something you expect it to work.


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## R-T-B (Feb 15, 2020)

I dunno, I went in expecting a shitshow and got one promptly.  It was fixable by disabling idle though, and a few releases later the issue was gone completely.

I joined the bandwagon late Dec. though.


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## Ryzen_7 (Feb 15, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> AMD GPU replaced by something new would be best. But... who?



matrox? They are only one left.

Production and development of GPU is tough business. Even big intel had problems fighting with then ATi and nVIDIA on gaming GPU market. Some talented engineers (like from well known and already defunct Silicon Graphics/sgi) and former manufacturers with their patents and knowledge were taken by nVIDIA (3dFX), ATi (ArtX), VIA (S3). So even if there is some new kid on the block, it would be taken by intel, AMD, nVIDIA.
Practically you have monopolly or oligopolly. In other words, depending on product, more or less you have couple of large manufacturers dictating market and prices. That's "free market" for you, in other words, I don't believe in free market. Everything is controlled by somebody for better or worse plus "lobbying" (translation: bribery) and political games.


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## sepheronx (Feb 15, 2020)

Gee, some of you guys can be just ridiculous.

Driver issues is software, not hardware.  AMD did fine with the hardware aspect of their cards.  They screwed up on Drivers.  OK.  But seriously, calling for demise of AMD graphics cards because of that?  That is just stupid beyond reason.

Drivers will be fixed.  I built a couple machines with the AMD 5700xt and so far none of my customers complained (they also dont know how to install new drivers so I doubt they run anything newer than 19.12.


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## spectatorx (Feb 15, 2020)

Ryzen_7 said:


> I've had issues with RX 580 (and overall with Ryzen platform, BIOS issues etc. to extent I cursed the day I ditched intel and nVIDIA for good) but it was polished out after some time. One of my acquaintances bought Vega 56 when it was hot product and replaced it with nVIDIA counterpart of that time because he got tired of driver issues.
> Anyway, Radeon cards age like fine wine but many are not patient to wait this. When you pay something you expect it to work.


When you had these issues with 580? I own that card since few months and i didn't have a single issue with it. What exactly were your issues?


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## R-T-B (Feb 15, 2020)

Ryzen_7 said:


> matrox? They are only one left.



Even they use AMD now.

It's AMD, Intel, or nvidia.


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## Zareek (Feb 15, 2020)

My Vega 64 has had zero issues with drivers but it was a mature architecture by the time I bought it. If you buy a brand new hardware design, you should expect growing pains.  I have had driver issues with Nvidia and AMD products over the years. I can't really say one more so than the other. The one thing I can say, in my experience new graphics card architectures always come with their fair share of driver bugs. It's been a fair amount of time, they should have the vast majority of those bugs worked out at this point.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 15, 2020)

Ryzen_7 said:


> matrox? They are only one left.
> 
> Production and development of GPU is tough business. Even big intel had problems fighting with then ATi and nVIDIA on gaming GPU market. Some talented engineers (like from well known and already defunct Silicon Graphics/sgi) and former manufacturers with their patents and knowledge were taken by nVIDIA (3dFX), ATi (ArtX), VIA (S3). So even if there is some new kid on the block, it would be taken by intel, AMD, nVIDIA.
> Practically you have monopolly or oligopolly. In other words, depending on product, more or less you have couple of large manufacturers dictating market and prices. That's "free market" for you, in other words, I don't believe in free market. Everything is controlled by somebody for better or worse plus "lobbying" (translation: bribery) and political games.



Matrox uses AMD or Nvidia GPUs anyway, the dropped out after the 9700 Pro



Zareek said:


> My Vega 64 has had zero issues with drivers but it was a mature architecture by the time I bought it. If you buy a brand new hardware design, you should expect growing pains.  I have had driver issues with Nvidia and AMD products over the years. I can't really say one more so than the other. The one thing I can say, in my experience new graphics card architectures always come with their fair share of driver bugs. It's been a fair amount of time, they should have the vast majority of those bugs worked out at this point.




Feedback is key instead of griping about it.


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## oxrufiioxo (Feb 15, 2020)

Nothing out of the ordinary for me... Although I do clean installs of GPU drivers every time. Out of the 3 systems only my 2080 ti system had driver issues with mouse pointer corruption but that was fixed pretty fast.


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## xkm1948 (Feb 15, 2020)

People would always vote with their wallets, simple.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 15, 2020)

IceShroom said:


> Hopefully this overblown issue will become more big  and kills AMD.
> 
> On side note : This indecates that AMD could have compatative 7nm GPU in their pipeline.


Perhaps you are unaware of what A GPU world without AMD would be like?  It’s probably the worst situation imaginable. 

There would be a complete lack of innovation and forward progress by Nvidia (that performance you seem so fond of would stop advancing) and prices would be as high as they wanted.


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## IceShroom (Feb 15, 2020)

rtwjunkie said:


> Perhaps you are unaware of what A GPU world without AMD would be like?  It’s probably the worst situation imaginable.
> 
> There would be a complete lack of innovation and forward progress by Nvidia (that performance you seem so fond of would stop advancing) and prices would be as high as they wanted.


World without AMD will be same as today. 
Nvidia is gamers champion so they wont stop improving their performence. Dont forget nearly half of Nvidia's revenue comes from gaming gpu. If they stop improving their gpu, it could hurt their revenue.


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## Deleted member 193792 (Feb 15, 2020)

I ditched my Radeon 5770 due to drivers no longer working with the latest Windows 10 version.


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 15, 2020)

IceShroom said:


> World without AMD will be same as today.
> Nvidia is gamers champion so they wont stop improving their performence. Dont forget nearly half of Nvidia's revenue comes from gaming gpu. If they stop improving their gpu, it could hurt their revenue.


Wow. I don’t even...where to begin? Nevermind. Don’t drink too fast from that koolaid, lest you choke.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 15, 2020)

rtwjunkie said:


> Wow. I don’t even...where to begin? Nevermind. Don’t drink too fast from that koolaid, lest you choke.



There is a truth to what he is saying. Yes, prices will inflate further. But there is always a limit to what can be charged, and if Nvidia charges too much, they create wiggle room for competition.

AMD's IP for example won't die with the company, it will get bought and even if its on the shelf somewhere, it can be pulled out when opportunity arises. This also pushes Nvidia to keep progressing, and to keep itself in check. On top of that, if you're a monopolist, suddenly the world looks very different and you can't just decide everything yourself anymore. You've become a public asset.

But yeah. AMD's death was predicted many times, its a bit like PC gaming is dead. It never really is and part of the reason is exactly that Nvidia doesn't want to become that public asset on chains. They could have run AMD over another dozen times by now. I strongly question the purpose of an underdog that has shown little results to make a worthwhile dent. Since the ATI takeover, its been a downward trend, sometimes stabilizing, sometimes mildly recovering, but the trend still is down.

At some point in the past the rumor was Samsung. I think that was wishful thinking, and it would be a perfect player. Large enough, has fabs,  etc.


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## Deleted member 193792 (Feb 15, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> There is a truth to what he is saying. Yes, prices will inflate further. But there is always a limit to what can be charged, and if Nvidia charges too much, they create wiggle room for competition.
> 
> AMD's IP for example won't die with the company, it will get bought and even if its on the shelf somewhere, it can be pulled out when opportunity arises. This also pushes Nvidia to keep progressing, and to keep itself in check. On top of that, if you're a monopolist, suddenly the world looks very different and you can't just decide everything yourself anymore. You've become a public asset.
> 
> But yeah. AMD's death was predicted many times, its a bit like PC gaming is dead. It never really is.


TBH, I don't like monopolies (who does?), but isn't ASML already a monopoly in terms of producing EUV equipment for wafer etching?

Why doesn't ASML charge even more? I don't get it.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 15, 2020)

jermando said:


> TBH, I don't like monopolies (who does?), but isn't ASML already a monopoly in terms of producing EUV equipment for wafer etching?
> 
> Why doesn't ASML charge even more? I don't get it.



Because if the price is too high and the effort too great, companies are ready enough to regurgitate (for example) 14nm ad infinitum 

There is _always_ a way, and that is why I also believe AMD as the eternal underdog isn't in our best interest at all. Its like half the market is on an infusion right now and has been for the last 3-5 years.



Ryzen_7 said:


> , I don't believe in free market. Everything is controlled by somebody for better or worse plus "lobbying" (translation: bribery) and political games.



There was a time when belief in free market really did work for us; in fact it did for hundreds of years, since colonization was a thing really. That is when free markets and trade as a vehicle for globalisation took flight. My country had a true golden age because of it (V.O.C. days) I think every system has its pros and cons, and the longer we work with it, the more hacks we find. That is the time we need to change the system.

I mean look at China. It abused our system of free markets while opening up much less of its own. Now the tables are turning and we're coming to realize that, slowly but surely. Its all connected here...

The movement IS happening, the beginnings may be small, but think back; we've heard talk of a 'base' income, instead of social welfare. We're starting to see there will be less work but more people; we're starting to realize we all share this planet and that for example something like co2 emissions is a task we all need to take part in, etc etc. We're looking at finite resources and infinite reproduction. Also, the monetary systems of the world are taking damage. Debt is a huge problem going forward, in many ways.

Anyway. Let's not get all philosophical


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## rtwjunkie (Feb 15, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> There is a truth to what he is saying. Yes, prices will inflate further. But there is always a limit to what can be charged, and if Nvidia charges too much, they create wiggle room for competition.
> 
> AMD's IP for example won't die with the company, it will get bought and even if its on the shelf somewhere, it can be pulled out when opportunity arises. This also pushes Nvidia to keep progressing, and to keep itself in check. On top of that, if you're a monopolist, suddenly the world looks very different and you can't just decide everything yourself anymore. You've become a public asset.
> 
> ...


You seem to have completely ignored the 5 liters of Koolaid gulped down with this choice sentence hidden in the middle of his last post:  “Nvidia is gamers champion so they wont stop improving their performance.”
It’s this level of brainwashing I am objecting to.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 15, 2020)

rtwjunkie said:


> You seem to have completely ignored the 5 liters of Koolaid gulped down with this choice sentence hidden in the middle of his last post:  “Nvidia is gamers champion so they wont stop improving their performance.”
> It’s this level of brainwashing I am objecting to.



I do ignore that because I like to continue on the substance that was offered and not the bait.

Its a way of not feeding the troll, but rather diminish it into a lovely puppy that gets to play along


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 15, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Nothing out of the ordinary for me... Although I do clean installs of GPU drivers every time. Out of the 3 systems only my 2080 ti system had driver issues with mouse pointer corruption but that was fixed pretty fast.
> 
> View attachment 144881



Thats not the only time ive heard that with nv drivers, it occurred with gf 1000 even



jermando said:


> I ditched my Radeon 5770 due to drivers no longer working with the latest Windows 10 version.



Dude that card is 10+ years old, and that is a microsoft problem, ms breaks their OS every build


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## erocker (Feb 15, 2020)

I did for a while. Latest WHQL drivers and not using most of the features in the driver seems to have helped. They're the worst I've ever used with AMD. Hopefully they start getting their shit together for their GPU's.


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## Deleted member 193792 (Feb 15, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Dude that card is 10+ years old, and that is a microsoft problem


I know it cannot play modern games, but it's strong enough for 2D/windows compositor (it needs shaders) and video decoding on YouTube.

You cannot do that with the generic VESA driver. I wouldn't say it's Microsoft's fault, since AMD ditched TeraScale in 2015, only 4 years after the last TeraScale card was released:









						AMD Radeon HD 6990 Specs
					

AMD Antilles x2, 830 MHz, 1536 Cores, 96 TMUs, 32 ROPs, 2048 MB GDDR5, 1250 MHz, 256 bit




					www.techpowerup.com
				




This is a lot stronger than cards like GT 1030 and yet, there's no driver support anymore.

As much as I want to support AMD, they have chronic issues with their driver support. For example, OpenCL on Radeon 5770 gave you half the VRAM, unless you downgraded to 14.4 Catalyst. Navi also has (had?) OpenCL issues. Now compare that with CUDA, which is being used a lot by professionals...

And of course you need the latest available Catalyst (15.7.1) just to run Windows 10 1803 (which is also EOL). Newer Windows 10 versions have a newer WDDM, which requires even newer drivers, so you get my point.

nVidia's Fermi lasted 8 years (2010-2018).


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 15, 2020)

jermando said:


> I know it cannot play modern games, but it's strong enough for 2D/windows compositor (it needs shaders) and video decoding on YouTube.
> 
> You cannot do that with the generic VESA driver. I wouldn't say it's Microsoft's fault, since AMD ditched TeraScale in 2015, only 4 years after the last TeraScale card was released:
> 
> ...



With the crap ms pulled with 10 I refuse to use it on any system.

Linux is my next system OS


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## Deleted member 193792 (Feb 15, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> With the crap ms pulled with 10 I refuse to use it on any system.
> 
> Linux is my next system OS


Whatever works for you. I know Linux has better support for older cards via open-source drivers, but depending on someone's usage scenarios, it may not be for everyone.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 15, 2020)

jermando said:


> I know it cannot play modern games, but it's strong enough for 2D/windows compositor (it needs shaders) and video decoding on YouTube.
> 
> You cannot do that with the generic VESA driver. I wouldn't say it's Microsoft's fault, since AMD ditched TeraScale in 2015, only 4 years after the last TeraScale card was released:
> 
> ...


Are you serious or a shilll.

This threads about Amd driver issues on the modern 5700 your bemoaning support for a ten year old Amd card you say you still own and use while promoting Nvidia as better.

Stinks.


Make a new thread so I can ignore that and read this one.


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## Deleted member 193792 (Feb 15, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Are you serious or a shilll.
> 
> This threads about Amd driver issues on the modern 5700 your bemoaning support for a ten year old Amd card you say you still own and use while promoting Nvidia as better.
> 
> ...


I read the title ("How many of you Radeon 5700 owners have ditched your cards over the drivers") and I responded as a former Radeon 57XX owner.

You do know that Navi series was inspired by the TeraScale series naming scheme (57XX), don't you? There's a reason for that, because TeraScale was considered legendary back then. AMD's marketing department knew that.

I do not use it anymore. Learn to read properly. And try to be more polite next time, otherwise I can also be an a-hole towards you. Learn to disagree politely. I didn't even attack the guy who wants AMD to close up shop, even though I disagree with him.

What *stinks* here my friend is the fact that AMD still hasn't fixed their driver issues after 10+ years (assuming it's a driver issue, because a hardware/silicon issue could be even worse). You don't know who you're talking to. I used to be a big AMD supporter in terms of promoting Radeon as a better GPU choice. So leave the judgment for someone else, you're barking up the wrong tree.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 15, 2020)

jermando said:


> I read the title ("How many of you Radeon 5700 owners have ditched your cards over the drivers") and I responded as a former Radeon 57XX owner.
> 
> You do know that Navi series was inspired by the TeraScale series naming scheme (57XX), don't you? There's a reason for that, because TeraScale was considered legendary back then. AMD's marketing department knew that.
> 
> I do not use it anymore. Learn to read properly. And try to be more polite next time, otherwise I can also be an a-hole towards you. Learn to disagree politely. I didn't even attack the guy who wants AMD to close up shop, even though I disagree with him.


Learn to read properly, are you taking the piss.

You read that title and thought we were all debating a ten year old card not the one just released six months ago, and it's me who should read again and be polite.
I read it right first time shill jog on.


----------



## IceShroom (Feb 15, 2020)

jermando said:


> I know it cannot play modern games, but it's strong enough for 2D/windows compositor (it needs shaders) and video decoding on YouTube.
> 
> You cannot do that with the generic VESA driver. I wouldn't say it's Microsoft's fault, since AMD ditched TeraScale in 2015, only 4 years after the last TeraScale card was released:
> 
> ...


You dont need new WDDM to run on new Windows version. I ran my Intel HD 4600 with Windows 10 1903 up untill last August. 
And letest driver for HH 6990 is 16.2.1. https://www.amd.com/en/support/graphics/amd-radeon-hd/amd-radeon-hd-6000-series/amd-radeon-hd-6850


----------



## Deleted member 193792 (Feb 15, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Learn to read properly, are you taking the piss.
> 
> You read that title and thought we were all debating a ten year old card not the one just released six months ago, and it's me who should read again and be polite.
> I read it right first time shill jog on.


You're still calling me a shill?

Piss off. 



IceShroom said:


> You dont need new WDDM to run on new Windows version. I ran my Intel HD 4600 with Windows 10 1903 up untill last August.
> And letest driver for HH 6990 is 16.2.1. https://www.amd.com/en/support/graphics/amd-radeon-hd/amd-radeon-hd-6000-series/amd-radeon-hd-6850


I had also tried the beta version (16.2.1) and it was even worse in terms of stability (freezes while playing videos) compared to the WHQL (15.7.1) one. That was with 1803, because the newer Win10 version didn't even boot.

Anyway, as I said I ditched TeraScale and I was looking forward to Navi as much as AdoredTV did. Disappointment happens sometimes.


----------



## IceShroom (Feb 15, 2020)

rtwjunkie said:


> Wow. I don’t even...where to begin? Nevermind. Don’t drink too fast from that koolaid, lest you choke.


Fact is koolaid now??



jermando said:


> I had also tried the beta version (16.2.1) and it was even worse in terms of stability (freezes while playing videos) compared to the WHQL (15.7.1) one. That was with 1803, because the newer Win10 version didn't even boot.
> 
> Anyway, as I said I ditched TeraScale and I was looking forward to Navi as much as AdoredTV did. Disappointment happens sometimes.


Weird problem. This guy had no problem with Windows 10 1909. 








And if you believe GTX 1080 like performence with $250 price tag like Adored, then you have the right to be dissappointed.


----------



## Kissamies (Feb 15, 2020)

What I've read, there seems to be problems with the display controller, the graphics card itself isn't the issue.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 15, 2020)

jermando said:


> You're still calling me a shill?
> 
> Piss off.
> 
> ...



No problems with 16.12s


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 15, 2020)

jermando said:


> What *stinks* here my friend is the fact that AMD still hasn't fixed their driver issues after 10+ years



They haven't fixed their drivers issues after 10+ years as opposed to what ? Fixing their drivers for eternity or going back to something that didn't work 10 years ago ? What's that even supposed to mean ?

Does Nvidia fix stuff from 10 years ago, is that not as stinky as you say? I've had software related issues with my Nvidia cards that would have convinced the overwhelming majority of users to ditch them, twilight zone type of problems that seem impossible to fix. I've found solutions for them eventually but without trying sound arrogant I cannot possibly see how an average user would have done the same.

They both have an endless list of issues that never get resolved or make your head explode trying to sort them out, if you believe for a second one's a saint and the other "stinks", you're not just drinking the Nvidia koolaid but rather you've switched to full blood transfusions with the stuff.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Feb 16, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> There is a truth to what he is saying. Yes, prices will inflate further. But there is always a limit to what can be charged, and if Nvidia charges too much, they create wiggle room for competition.
> 
> AMD's IP for example won't die with the company, it will get bought and even if its on the shelf somewhere, it can be pulled out when opportunity arises. This also pushes Nvidia to keep progressing, and to keep itself in check. On top of that, if you're a monopolist, suddenly the world looks very different and you can't just decide everything yourself anymore. You've become a public asset.
> 
> ...



kool aid talk.

For a monopoly, it is all about maximizing returns.  It turns to financial speak, not tech speak.  And that, like any science, is well defined as to methodology.

It would work like this : As CEO I make 10M cards a year right now at $200 per card avg for $2B in revenue. The card costs me $150 to make so I profit $50 each or $500M. 
My analyst just did a study and says that now my competition is gone I can increase the price to $300 and I’ll still sell at least 7M cards.  The card now costs 175 each to make due to loss of economy of scale, but I make $125 profit each  vs $50.  This means my revenue will go up 5% to 2.1B but my profit will skyrocket from 500M to 875M a 75% jump!  My stock options are going to be pure gold!  Now, hm how do we convince people we’re adding value..  Where’s that marketing exec at, get him in here!

Take it from an old corporate fart, this is the way the real world works.


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 16, 2020)

RandallFlagg said:


> My analyst just did a study and says that now my competition is gone I can increase the price to $300 and I’ll still sell at least 7M cards.



Thing is though, in the real world that's just a study and studies have varying levels of accuracy that may or may not translate well into a good decision.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 16, 2020)

IceShroom said:


> Fact is koolaid now??



Opinion != fact



IceShroom said:


> And if you believe GTX 1080 like performence with $250 price tag like Adored, then you have the right to be dissappointed.



Doing fine, thanks.


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 16, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> Opinion != fact



Every time I see a "!=" I wonder how many people look at that and think you must have misspelled something.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Feb 16, 2020)

Vya Domus said:


> Thing is though, in the real world that's just a study and studies have varying levels of accuracy that may or may not translate well into a good decision.


There is a financial curve for a monopoly to create scarcity by decreasing supply and thus increase prices and profit.  There is a point on that curve where higher prices and lower supply maximize profit.  This is a *fact* and is all my oversimplified example was meant to convey.


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 16, 2020)

RandallFlagg said:


> There is a financial curve for a monopoly to create scarcity by decreasing supply and thus increase prices and profit.  There is a point on that curve where higher prices and lower supply maximize profit.  This is a *fact* and is all my oversimplified example was meant to convey.



It's not that this isn't a "fact" but whether or not companies that are in that position actually get to optimize their profits like that depends on many other other factors that are in or out of their control.


----------



## ChristTheGreat (Feb 16, 2020)

I had issue with december driver (fan speed profile wasn't working, some game problem), but with 2020 driver, no issue. I didn't enable freesync back yet, hope it works fine now..


----------



## xkm1948 (Feb 16, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> Opinion != fact
> 
> 
> 
> Doing fine, thanks.




Ahh didn't see you hopped on the red train there froggy, how is the ride?


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 16, 2020)

Vya Domus said:


> Every time I see a "!=" I wonder how many people look at that and think you must have misspelled something.



Silly boolean logic, tricks are for kids.



xkm1948 said:


> Ahh didn't see you hopped on the red train there froggy, how is the ride?



As well as I was expecting.  The usual.


----------



## xkm1948 (Feb 16, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> Silly boolean logic, tricks are for kids.
> 
> 
> 
> As well as I was expecting.  The usual.



Win10 Enterprise sounds pretty cool. So I assume the regular driver works just fine there?


Also


Spoiler



Man just noticed your avatar has become all vicious, side of effect of going red? Those red eyes and sharp teeth man,

I like this one way better. Mellow and claim.


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 16, 2020)

spectatorx said:


> When you had these issues with 580? I own that card since few months and i didn't have a single issue with it. What exactly were your issues?



Off the record I to have the almost the same one but only a 570 RX XFX GDDR5 4gb. I only had it for 34 days and I have been getting flickering issues on screen while playing games. It Used but also almost brand new. It only does it when playing games. I'm starting to think that I have made another bad decision. All I wanted was a graphic card that can handle gaming entertainment and media stuff. I have the new driver version the 2020 adrenaline 19.12.3. now install from the web site. That was the only one I found about a month ago. The first 30 minutes of playing fallout 4 works great then after that it flickering in the screen like its losing signal like you lose signal on a cable TV channel. I have in the past reinstall the driver again then it usually works great for about a week later after that it starts at it again. Last time I reinstalled the driver last week it somewhat helped then things have been gotten more stranger. The blue screen of death started happening. Video Card schedule error or something like that. I have used some software to test the graphic card with OCCT v5.5.1 which the graphic card passed and no errors found. But I still have the same issues. I don't know if it the PSU lacking power in the cable connection or driver version problem. 

I








eidairaman1 said:


> With the crap ms pulled with 10 I refuse to use it on any system.
> 
> Linux is my next system OS


Im starting to think the Same way. I have windows 10 Enterprise 1908 version. I like it but it got a lot of issues in drivers and HDD controller problems. I have noticed it burns up hard drives like firewood. I have bought 3 hard drives in less than 6 months and two of them out of 3 is has been stopped working or the other has reallocate count 100 which is going to have to replace again. 

I really like windows 7 because I didn't have so much trouble with it. I have read on Microsoft website that they are not making another version of Windows like say windows 11 and windows 10 is last stop for windows. But only updated windows 10. I don't know if that a good thing for Windows to stop making new window OS because of a Continuous changes of data in the world.



xkm1948 said:


> Win10 Enterprise sounds pretty cool. So I assume the regular driver works just fine there?
> 
> 
> Also
> ...


I have windows 10 Enterprise 1908 its better than pro. More features... But be aware of HDD failures I went through 2 of less than 6 months.  Im assuming that windows isn't slowing down the hard drive and causing them to over heat. Don't use Sata HDD Drive continues to spend in high speed non stop making them heat up. Sata drive down like heat over 46 ° degree C. I would recommend us SSD hard drives for Windows 10 Enterprise. Yes these SSD drives are alittle pricey but they are better for upload gaming and apps and alot faster than Sata drives.



ChristTheGreat said:


> I had issue with december driver (fan speed profile wasn't working, some game problem), but with 2020 driver, no issue. I didn't enable freesync back yet, hope it works fine now..


Can you please tell me what version drivers that you are using. I'm using the 19.12.3 which I'm having flickering while playing games. Thanks

Oh missed a word Sata drive don't like heat over 46 degrees Celsius.


----------



## tvamos (Feb 16, 2020)

I've had more issues with 5700xt first month than any other card before. 

But also cannot blame only the drivers as windows would give me all sorts of bsod codes, almost always a different one, leading me to believe it was my ram or ssd. Then again before this card system was stable. 

Things got a lot better with later drivers and some bios tweaking. Later changed cpu as well, got better, new drivers, better. Now I get blackscreen with sound once or twice a week. 

Bottom line, after a lot of changes to system and new drivers it is way better than at first, but can't tell what was causing me problems. Too lazy and time restricted to do full check or win reinstall.


----------



## Vayra86 (Feb 16, 2020)

RandallFlagg said:


> kool aid talk.
> 
> For a monopoly, it is all about maximizing returns.  It turns to financial speak, not tech speak.  And that, like any science, is well defined as to methodology.
> 
> ...



It already works like that, look at Nvidias financials right here. That is the point really; AMDs presence has too little impact in dGPU.


----------



## Ryzen_7 (Feb 16, 2020)

spectatorx said:


> When you had these issues with 580? I own that card since few months and i didn't have a single issue with it. What exactly were your issues?



Long time ago, before release of RX 590, when prices suddenly dropped to somewhat normal levels after crypto-mining craze although I am still mad I did not bought Nitro+ instead of Pulse for various reasons (heavier, longer (I was not sure it would fit in my older case at that time before I bought new etc.) because price was similar to Pulse version at that time.

I've got black screens and BSoD's, WattMan problems.



R-T-B said:


> Even they use AMD now.
> 
> It's AMD, Intel, or nvidia.



I did not knew that, thanks for information.


----------



## Vayra86 (Feb 16, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Learn to read properly, are you taking the piss.
> 
> You read that title and thought we were all debating a ten year old card not the one just released six months ago, and it's me who should read again and be polite.
> I read it right first time shill jog on.



Nah he is just connecting the dots. For many users the perception of a brand and its quality level stems from more than their most recent purchase. It may not be what you WANT to hear, but who's problem is that really?!

You are way out of line here in tone and content. It is only fair to look at driver quality in a long term perspective.


----------



## spectatorx (Feb 16, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> ...



Looks like you have more problems with your pc overall and they are not related to gpu itself, gpu problems may be side-effects of your other problems. I suggest you to create separate thread and list there all your pc components. Latest driver is 20.2.1, perform clean update to that version, you can download it either here on tpu or at amd.com.

Without your pc specs at the moment i would name few things: replace hdmi/display port/whatever connection you use cable. With such amount of failing hdds it is definitely not windows issue, i would guess it is broken sata controller damaging your drives or you were extremely unlucky and bought so many bad drives. If all of them were seagate (just guessing, do not judge me too much) then do not use seagate drives as they are infamous of failing soon after purchase or working without issues for years. Some drives can reach 46 degrees but it is either bad cooling or some old tech hdds. Replacing sata cables is another good idea. Such problems also could be caused by too weak or bad psu.

All of these are just guesses from me, create separate thread about that and list all details (as exact models as possible) of your pc: cpu, motherboard, hdds, gpu, psu, display, display connection, pc case, cooling setup, optical disc drives (if any) and so on.





Ryzen_7 said:


> Long time ago, before release of RX 590, when prices suddenly dropped to somewhat normal levels after crypto-mining craze although I am still mad I did not bought Nitro+ instead of Pulse for various reasons (heavier, longer etc.) because price was similar to Pulse version at that time.
> 
> I've got black screens and BSoD's, WattMan problems.
> 
> ...


I have nitro+ but from what i see people enjoy their pulse models as well. It is hard to say, i keep my hardware and software up to date and i really do not have any issues in system, games, web browsing or anything. Oh, no, sorry, i have one issue, sort of artifacting when i set refreshrate to 75Hz, under linux, and this problem is known there on all polaris gpus (480, 580, 590, etc.) but i do not mind using 60Hz under linux as i do not game there. On windows everything works fine under any conditions.


----------



## P4-630 (Feb 16, 2020)

@dirtyferret why not make a poll.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 16, 2020)

P4-630 said:


> @dirtyferret why not make a poll.


Better trust amd partners who claim 5x higher return rates for navi than ever before.


----------



## Lindatje (Feb 16, 2020)

Nvidia has never ever driver issue`s and is 100% perfect.....



			https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/
		










						Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti Cards Have A Serious Problem -- They Keep Dying
					

RTX 2080 TI customers seems to be keeping Nvidia's RMA department very busy, with some users reporting they've already gone through two faulty cards.




					www.forbes.com
				





__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/9r8ee1

The moral of the story is that every company sometimes has some problems. Wonder why everyone forgets about Nvidia's (driver) problems fast.

I myself have had little to no problems with both Nvidia and AMD.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 16, 2020)

Lindatje said:


> Nvidia has never ever driver issue`s and is 100% perfect.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was entirely micron gddr6 failure.


----------



## Lindatje (Feb 16, 2020)

@cucker tarlson 


That may or may not, but people do not buy the card at Micron but at Nvidia so it is their problem. Nvidia should have tested the card better in that case. But that was only the case with the RTX cards, there have been more problems with cards and drivers and still, as said, no one is talking about it anymore and Nvidia is always 100% perfect ...

I'm just curious why that is, people never forget the mistakes of AMD even if it was 15/20 years ago and at Nvidia or Intel the problems are forgotten very quickly, interesting if you ask me.


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 16, 2020)

Lindatje said:


> I'm just curious why that is, people never forget the mistakes of AMD even if it was 15/20 years ago and at Nvidia or Intel the problems are forgotten very quickly, interesting if you ask me.



There are far more Intel and Nvidia fanboys than AMD ones, that's all.


----------



## efikkan (Feb 16, 2020)

Lindatje said:


> Nvidia has never ever driver issue`s and is 100% perfect.....
> 
> The moral of the story is that every company sometimes has some problems. Wonder why everyone forgets about Nvidia's (driver) problems fast.


As with everything in real life, things have to be put in perspective and compared.
Many of you guys here like to pretend like AMD's continuous driver issues are negligible because Nvidia have had an occasional bug too, while turning the argument on the flip side while bashing Intel for (mostly theoretical) bugs and ignoring the ones from AMD.
If we are to discuss this fairly, we have to take into account the impact, severity and time to fix of bugs.

An occasional driver bug which is quickly identified and resolved is never _okay_ in my book, but still doesn't rise to the level of severity of persistent fundamental problems with software.

AMD should have had a huge driver advantage; their recent GPUs have very few ISA changes, and the driver changes between Polaris, Vega and Navi are minuscule, mostly just changing of a few parameters. So by any rational thinking, AMD should have had plenty of time to make the most rock solid graphics driver ever. But still, stutter, random crashes and glitches has persisted since the early days of GCN, and have been a recurring subject for every new hardware release. Problems like this most likely reside deep in the core driver, which they have barely changed for years.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 16, 2020)

Lindatje said:


> @cucker tarlson
> That may or may not


I thought that case was quite clear.



efikkan said:


> An occasional driver bug which is quickly identified and resolved is never _okay_ in my book, but still doesn't rise to the level of severity of persistent fundamental problems with software.


false equivalence,the most powerful and dangerous tool in the hands of internet.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 16, 2020)

Lindatje said:


> Nvidia has never ever driver issue`s and is 100% perfect.....


Did anyone say that??

Also a hardware issue isnt, well, software my dude. As far as the failing cards,  nothing was 100% confirmed. Sure, samsung ics came out, but guess what..they died too. And suddenly without mass bio updates or a hotfix driver they work...so it's a hardware issue of some sort it seems. Also, that was blown out of proportion by many.

As many have said and agreed. Both have their share of problems. As of right now and since the release of Navi/rdna, amd has had more issues...especially since adrenalin 2020. That said, weve seen improvements with more frequent updates to fix it...so it is what is.


----------



## Zach_01 (Feb 16, 2020)

15 years and 6 Radeon/AMD cards. 7th the 5700XT now. (1950Pro, HD3870, HD4870, HD6970, R9 390X, R580 -> 5700XT)
Every time I had a severe issue, with crashes and restarts, was due to CPU or GPU oc.-
Anything driver related at worst was shitty fan behaviour.

1.5 month ago replaced the RX580 with 5700XT. No clean win installs no DDU. When I first replace the card I got random in game reboots. I played with MSIafterburner thinking that was something wrong with the GPU. Tried drivers prior and after adrenalin 2020. Same behaviour.
Well, I backed down my RAM OC (speed and timings mostly and trfc) and it all went away. The same OC that previously with RX580 wasnt causing any issue. Wasnt giving any error or crash on stability tests...
Since then no issue.

I really want to see (but I cant) if all this blown matter is related to specific brands and/or to OCed systems.
Why HardwareUnboxed who did, God knows how many, reviews and tests with almost every 5700XT there is out there, never had such an issue? Statistically it should have at least once.
All this is a very good Anti-AMD -go buy nVIdia GPU campain (not this thread) and I believe some people took the opportunity to exaggerate and dramatize, an issue... but not perhaps a GPU drivers issue. And whatever it is, I dont think its that broad.
I personally dont see it, never had such issues.


----------



## Vayra86 (Feb 16, 2020)

Lindatje said:


> Nvidia has never ever driver issue`s and is 100% perfect.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They aren't forgotten... and when you did have one, you'd RMA it and get a replacement. Its not really a question of drivers, is it... Its not the first time either! I ALSO have not forgotten how Pascal cards with Micron GDDR5X needed a bios update to run proper:


			https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/discover/240638/known-issue-with-gddr5x-micron-memory-in-1080-gtx/
		


We don't forget. No worries.

Issues happen because every gen its new tech in some way, most of the time, silicon lottery is a thing, and balance is tight (cooling/cost/perf/quality). That is fine. What is not fine is issues that linger or keep returning, or when they get fixed, cause new problems. It highlights a fundamental flaw or workaround situation and points to a product that can be further improved, but isn't.

The moral is that yes every company has its problems, and over the long run you can see a general approach to those problems. In that, the companies are not the same at all, and yes, I and several others do attribute value to that difference. Its part of that mindshare thing, which is so much more than just marketing. Its about consistency and trust, on both ends.

The thing about trust... its so much effort to build up, and so easy to break down. That also shines light on why Zen CPUs need some ramp up time to really start selling. We're not used to them, yet. In the same way, AMD's inconsistent GPU gens of the last few years do much more damage than most people think. They eat away at that trust.


----------



## Ryzen_7 (Feb 16, 2020)

spectatorx said:


> I have nitro+ but from what i see people enjoy their pulse models as well. It is hard to say, i keep my hardware and software up to date and i really do not have any issues in system, games, web browsing or anything. Oh, no, sorry, i have one issue, sort of artifacting when i set refreshrate to 75Hz, under linux, and this problem is known there on all polaris gpus (480, 580, 590, etc.) but i do not mind using 60Hz under linux as i do not game there. On windows everything works fine under any conditions.



Nitro+ is quieter and I tend to have my computer as quiet as possible. Once I owned Sapphire HD4850 (I should have bought Toxic version instead), it was regular, loud crap version, there was not silent option on this card, and I bought Zalman VF900-Cu custom cooler with passive heatsinks and once I took those heatsinks away, I've got screen artifacts because somehow contacts between PCB and memory chips were not strong enough I think, and I finally destroyed this card by "baking" it in oven by not knowing how to do it properly.

Moral of story, I would never ever buy regular versions of graphic cards anymore. By the way, on my Asus Strix GTX 960 card fans are not running even when computer is turned on, while Sapphire Pulse RX 580 fans stop only when Windows is loaded.

Anyway, even if I've had a reason or opportunity to buy current Navi 10 line of GPU's, I will wait for newer and improved iterations. RX 580 serves me well and I tend to play older games where in some cases my card is not even sweating.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 16, 2020)

xkm1948 said:


> Win10 Enterprise sounds pretty cool. So I assume the regular driver works just fine there?
> 
> 
> Also
> ...



The enterprise I use is really just Pro under a different license model for my business, so yeah.

The avatar was earned and is a badge of shame when I went briefly insane and bit sneekypeet and w1zzards collective heads off in a PM due to a bad reaction to some supposedly mild meds.  Ask them about it if you want...  It was different.  I believe I told w1zzarrd that he had to fire Sneeky or his site would go to hell or something. 

Fortunately, I quickly realized what was going on and am back to not giving a crap.  Sorry to all involved, anyhow.

As for Navi, it's also been different but nothing I wasn't expecting.  I had to fix a lot of crap myself at first and the drivers are just now implementing a lot of the stuff driver side I used to do in the SoftPowerPlay tables myself.  As usual with AMD, you can get some performance for your money but it's kinda a tweakfest.  I'd say it's ok for some but YMMV, as always.  I think nvidia's experience is a bit more polished but there are other fees involved there.


----------



## ChristTheGreat (Feb 16, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Off the record I to have the almost the same one but only a 570 RX XFX GDDR5 4gb. I only had it for 34 days and I have been getting flickering issues on screen while playing games. It Used but also almost brand new. It only does it when playing games. I'm starting to think that I have made another bad decision. All I wanted was a graphic card that can handle gaming entertainment and media stuff. I have the new driver version the 2020 adrenaline 19.12.3. now install from the web site. That was the only one I found about a month ago. The first 30 minutes of playing fallout 4 works great then after that it flickering in the screen like its losing signal like you lose signal on a cable TV channel. I have in the past reinstall the driver again then it usually works great for about a week later after that it starts at it again. Last time I reinstalled the driver last week it somewhat helped then things have been gotten more stranger. The blue screen of death started happening. Video Card schedule error or something like that. I have used some software to test the graphic card with OCCT v5.5.1 which the graphic card passed and no errors found. But I still have the same issues. I don't know if it the PSU lacking power in the cable connection or driver version problem. View attachment 144905IView attachment 144904
> View attachment 144902
> 
> 
> ...




using the 20.1.4 January 27.


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 16, 2020)

ChristTheGreat said:


> using the 20.1.4 January 27.


Thanks for your reply. Is your version drivers better than 19.12.3 or have you experience any difference in better performance and does it have flickering issues like mind? I'm sorry for asking too many questions I'm new in AMD cards. It's my first one I've ever owned. I usually get Nidvia cards in the pass. I decided to go with all AMD products even with motherboards since I was brought up in Intel since the 90's in school. Something

-Different for a change-. Sorry Browser issues  on Android phone


----------



## Assimilator (Feb 16, 2020)

Let's all agree that it's time to retire the "fine wine" moniker for AMD GPUs. Fine wine implies wine that starts good and gets better over time, whereas AMD GPUs seem more like vinegar that eventually turns into mostly-acceptable wine.

That's harsh bordering on unfair, but AMD (and its fanbois) needs to understand that good hardware alone is not good enough. You aren't buying hardware, you're buying a full product, and drivers are a vital part of that. And until AMD puts correct focus on their drivers, I'll keep bitching about them.


----------



## ChristTheGreat (Feb 17, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Thanks for your reply. Is your version drivers better than 19.12.3 or have you experience any difference in better performance and does it have flickering issues like mind? I'm sorry for asking too many questions I'm new in AMD cards. It's my first one I've ever owned. I usually get Nidvia cards in the pass. I decided to go with all AMD products even with motherboards since I was brought up in Intel since the 90's in school. Something
> 
> -Different for a change-. Sorry Browser issues  on Android phone




Well, my flicker were with freesync on, but as for now, with these driver, I have no issue at all. I have an Asus Strix RX5700.


----------



## bug (Feb 17, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Let's all agree that it's time to retire the "fine wine" moniker for AMD GPUs. Fine wine implies wine that starts good and gets better over time, whereas AMD GPUs seem more like vinegar that eventually turns into mostly-acceptable wine.



Imho, wine starts out good and can end up better than anything else.
AMD cards on the other may end up trouble free, but by the time that happens they're pretty much obsolete. I mean, sure RX580 will run fine today and it's even got good (great?) Linux support, but it won't play recent AAA titles well.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 17, 2020)

I had an xfx 4890 when it was new. Nice card. 900 core stock, able to do well over 1ghz core. Touch the memory by even 1mhz and you entered the flicker zone. I gave that card away for free in a forum. Looks like somethings don’t change. That’s too bad because I was considering an AMD card.


----------



## johnny-r (Feb 17, 2020)

Why ditch them ? haha, never ! I've run a few tests on a friend of mines 5700 XT, he recently purchased the card and installed the newer drivers, he is very happy, I was quite impress with Shadow of the Tomb Raider on Ultra and also Gears Of War 5, just unbelievable framerates,

anyway

After 3 years my RX-580 is better than ever ! the framerates drastically improved on my favourite titles !

I remember when these cards were new they compared it to the GTX 1060 and the nVidia card slightly outperformed the AMD card in almost all games titles and now it's the other way around...

AMD cards really improves like wine, just like many stated.

another buddy of mine build a second PC with AMD graphics so he can play older titles again. something he claims he struggles with his nVidia cards drivers, the older driver don't want to work in the newer cards or so, not sure....

If I could choose I will go AMD, I remember back in the day with Quake 3, the ATi Radeon 9700/9800 Pro cards were new and they blew everything else out of the water...

So, I'm in for the fine wine


----------



## freeagent (Feb 17, 2020)

So it took 3 years for your frames to increase on your favorite titles?

That doesn't sound inspiring.

My frames are always good on my ancient 980, but I am still on 1080p.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 17, 2020)

This time, it started out as MadDog 20/20 and has so far improved to a $9.99 bottle on the bottom shelf. Gets the job done... may not have the 'legs' others do.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 17, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> This time, it started out as MadDog 20/20 and has so far improved to a $9.99 bottle on the bottom shelf. Gets the job done... may not have the 'legs' others do.




^^

A little early to be hittin the sauce dontcha think?


----------



## johnny-r (Feb 17, 2020)

freeagent said:


> So it took 3 years for your frames to increase on your favorite titles?
> 
> That doesn't sound inspiring.
> 
> My frames are always good on my ancient 980, but I am still on 1080p.



Nope it gradually improved over the 3 years...


----------



## Vayra86 (Feb 17, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Let's all agree that it's time to retire the "fine wine" moniker for AMD GPUs. Fine wine implies wine that starts good and gets better over time, whereas AMD GPUs seem more like vinegar that eventually turns into mostly-acceptable wine.
> 
> That's harsh bordering on unfair, but AMD (and its fanbois) needs to understand that good hardware alone is not good enough. You aren't buying hardware, you're buying a full product, and drivers are a vital part of that. And until AMD puts correct focus on their drivers, I'll keep bitching about them.



Its not unfair, the kids had their warning how many times now? Its time to get the memo. The funny thing is even AMD knows, look at all their driver PR of the last years. Flashy names, big releases (yeah... 'big bang' releases in an Agile/DevOps world... dafuq!? Is it 1999, AMD?)... no consistency. Its borderline misleading.

Meanwhile, team green just poops a Game Ready driver every two weeks or so and even if there is a problem, there is always a new release inbound to fix it. If its big, you get a hotfix _days _later.

Yeah I do wonder what looks more reliable.


----------



## sutyi (Feb 17, 2020)

I've been using a Sapphire PULSE RX 5600 XT for two weeks now, haven't run into mayor problems yet.

Uninstalled Afterburner as in the past it had its own set of problems with WattMan, so I did not want it to interfere with the new 2020 Software package cause seemingly that has enough of its own issues.

What I had experienced are:


Driving my monitor at 144Hz, the memory clocks are stuck on full blast. Lowering refresh rate to 120Hz makes it idle properly.
World of Tanks occasionally launches to a black screen after is switches display modes from Windowed to Fullscreen. An Alt-Tab fixes it.
The Radeon Software overlay sometimes stops to display. Using the shortcut key still grabs focus, but it does not show up ingame.
No major lock ups or blackscreens.
Hopefully AMD will fix the relatively long list of issue, and at least the most glaring ones first. I'm giving the card a couple of months to see whats what.


----------



## Ryzen_7 (Feb 17, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Let's all agree that it's time to retire the "fine wine" moniker for AMD GPUs. Fine wine implies wine that starts good and gets better over time, whereas AMD GPUs seem more like vinegar that eventually turns into mostly-acceptable wine.
> 
> That's harsh bordering on unfair, but AMD (and its fanbois) needs to understand that good hardware alone is not good enough. You aren't buying hardware, you're buying a full product, and drivers are a vital part of that. And until AMD puts correct focus on their drivers, I'll keep bitching about them.



"Fine wine" moniker is maybe over-stretched but this statement has some truth. Maybe today this moniker is not so plausible but with R300 (Radeon 9700, my favourite graphic card ever) it was the truth. Radeon was almost always cheaper and better alternative to me than GeForce, meaning I could get more run for money. nVIDIA many times crippled their middle range cards while their stronger and future proof cards were expensive. So from gaming perspective, I was geting more with Radeon than GeForce.

One of the reasons I switched to nVIDIA from time to time or almost exclusively was better driver support including binary blob driver on Linux. Speaking of which, if you use FreeBSD or Solaris you have nVIDIA driver support for those OS's unlike ATi/AMD although I think AMD gave more love to Linux than ATi.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 17, 2020)

Ryzen_7 said:


> "Fine wine" moniker is maybe over-stretched but this statement has some truth. Maybe today this moniker is not so plausible but with R300 (Radeon 9700, my favourite graphic card ever) it was the truth. Radeon was almost always cheaper and better alternative to me than GeForce, meaning I could get more run for money. nVIDIA many times crippled their middle range cards while their stronger and future proof cards were expensive. So from gaming perspective, I was geting more with Radeon than GeForce.
> 
> One of the reasons I switched to nVIDIA from time to time or almost exclusively was better driver support including binary blob driver on Linux. Speaking of which, if you use FreeBSD or Solaris you have nVIDIA driver support for those OS's unlike ATi/AMD although I think AMD gave more love to Linux than ATi.


AMD is on with open source (Linux)


----------



## Ryzen_7 (Feb 17, 2020)

sutyi said:


> The Radeon Software overlay sometimes stops to display. Using the shortcut key still grabs focus, but it does not show up ingame.



I've got similar problem. If I try to open Radeon Software from tray or from shortcut, nothing happens and consequently overlay (Ctrl+Shift+O) don't work.

I need to log-out or restart to be able to open Radeon Software and than overlay also works.



eidairaman1 said:


> AMD is on with open source (Linux)



True, open source Radeon drivers are better than nVIDIA's and Intel is among the best with support with their open source drivers, they even got their own distro, Clear Linux.


----------



## efikkan (Feb 17, 2020)

Ryzen_7 said:


> "Fine wine" moniker is maybe over-stretched but this statement has some truth.


The argument has mostly been used to argue that AMD's cards somehow get better over time, both performance wise and stability wise. But those people are usually ignoring that Nvidia's cards also get driver improvements throughout their lifecycle, and some of the single largest performance uplifts has come from Nvidia.



Ryzen_7 said:


> nVIDIA many times crippled their middle range cards while their stronger and future proof cards were expensive. So from gaming perspective, I was geting more with Radeon than GeForce.


How precisely have Nvidia crippled their mid-range cards?



Ryzen_7 said:


> One of the reasons I switched to nVIDIA from time to time or almost exclusively was better driver support including binary blob driver on Linux. Speaking of which, if you use FreeBSD or Solaris you have nVIDIA driver support for those OS's unlike ATi/AMD although I think AMD gave more love to Linux than ATi.


Speaking as someone who has been doing OpenGL development for way more than a decade, I do have a fairly good impression of how robust the various drivers are, both under "normal" use and during "mistreatment". I honestly have to say that Nvidia's driver is in a different league than AMD, and I wouldn't even consider running AMD cards in workstations for development purposes, that's just too many crashes and corruption issues to be productive.

AMD have to this day not added stable support for OpenGL 3.x/4.x, and shader issues and random glitches are still prevalent, and this is for the proprietary one, the "open source" one is much worse…


----------



## Super XP (Feb 17, 2020)

I'm on the newest Radeon drivers and I have no issues to report. I personally think many people are blowing this driver issue out of proportion. Especially on Reddit where most of the issues are from overclocked Ram (Black Screens) and overclocked CPU (Screen Flickering). Sure the drivers seem to be unstable for some, but these things need a total uninstall and a fresh install. At the same time, AMD needs to work on driver stability, though I like the extra feature set in the new drivers, stick to stability as much as possible AMD so the drivers won't react to hardware so strictly.
Then again, the same happens to Nvidia, as going on to the Nvidia forums & on Reddit, there's loads of driver complaints and stability issues.



efikkan said:


> How precisely have Nvidia crippled their mid-range cards?


Forgot the actual driver numbers but there were 4 to 5 driver updates that not only crippled Nvidia GPU's but also literally bricked them. Not all of them, but they were drivers from hell lol,


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 17, 2020)

Super XP said:


> I'm on the newest Radeon drivers and I have no issues to report. I personally think many people are blowing this driver issue out of proportion. Especially on Reddit where most of the issues are from overclocked Ram (Black Screens) and overclocked CPU (Screen Flickering). Sure the drivers seem to be unstable for some, but these things need a total uninstall and a fresh install. At the same time, AMD needs to work on driver stability, though I like the extra feature set in the new drivers, stick to stability as much as possible AMD so the drivers won't react to hardware so strictly.
> Then again, the same happens to Nvidia, as going on to the Nvidia forums & on Reddit, there's loads of driver complaints and stability issues.
> 
> 
> Forgot the actual driver numbers but there were 4 to 5 driver updates that not only crippled Nvidia GPU's but also literally bricked them. Not all of them, but they were drivers from hell lol,



Lets not forget fried gpus, detonators?


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 17, 2020)

ChristTheGreat said:


> Well, my flicker were with freesync on, but as for now, with these driver, I have no issue at all. I have an Asus Strix RX5700.


Update.. I have upgraded the driver last night. It was the 20.1.3  I have found on AMD website. I installed the new driver and I have noticed that they fix or attempted to resolve the flickering issues according to AMD Fix's information. Well I installed it and I have less screen flickering so far, while playing fallout 4 last night. It's flicker once or twice but I managed to finally play hours later. But I'm still not completely convenient the Flickering screen won't come back again like before updates. I also just purchased full fan replacement for this XFX 570 on eBay. Since I have one wolbleing fan it's also getting hot 192.00 degrees Fahrenheit or 89.0 degrees Celsius. I hope these new replacements will help me with my over heating issues. It's very strange that sometimes it will over heat and sometimes it won't while playing games or movies.


----------



## bug (Feb 17, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> AMD is on with open source (Linux)


Kind of. They have 3D acceleration figured out, but if you want OpenCL, you still need the closed driver (there's an open source alternative, I think, but it's not from AMD). I'm not sure whether they figured out HDMI audio yet. Also, new cards are usually supported in unreleased/just released Mesa versions, which means users of most distros are out of luck. Fixable with the help of a PPA/EPEL, but still, not to everyone's taste.


----------



## efikkan (Feb 17, 2020)

bug said:


> Also, new cards are usually supported in unreleased/just released Mesa versions, which means users of most distros are out of luck. Fixable with the help of a PPA/EPEL, but still, not to everyone's taste.


One of the few stupid things about Linux is the bundling of drivers in the kernel build. So running any newer Mesa versions usually involves a lot of manual labor, either a different kernel, compiling stuff yourself or similar, with potential avalanche of bugs and stability issues from going to custom route. Even for a typical Linux user (which is way above a "normal" PC user in competence), it's a pain just to get a few Steam games working on anything but the (proprietary) binary drivers.


----------



## bug (Feb 17, 2020)

efikkan said:


> One of the few stupid things about Linux is the bundling of drivers in the kernel build. So running any newer Mesa versions usually involves a lot of manual labor, either a different kernel, compiling stuff yourself or similar, with potential avalanche of bugs and stability issues from going to custom route. Even for a typical Linux user (which is way above a "normal" PC user in competence), it's a pain just to get a few Steam games working on anything but the (proprietary) binary drivers.


I think drivers can be put in the kernel or loaded on demand and that's something you specify when building the kernel. That said, I don't know if Mesa also works like that. And I have well beyond 10 years of experience with Linux, which pretty much proves your point.


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 17, 2020)

Hello. Does anyone know about Graphic Card ATI Brand? And how good are theses cards.? I have seen them on the internet.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 17, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Hello. Does anyone know about Graphic Card ATI Brand? And how good are theses cards.? I have seen them on the internet.


Hello. This is not the thread for asking this question.

ATI was bought out by AMD several years ago... their cards are fine, but due to their age, they won't be playing many of today's titles.

This thread isn't for troubleshooting your PC or asking about ATI cards. Start your own thread asking about the card, your troubles, power supply etc...


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 18, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Hello. This is not the thread for asking this question.
> 
> ATI was bought out by AMD several years ago... their cards are fine, but due to their age, they won't be playing many of today's titles.
> 
> This thread isn't for troubleshooting your PC or asking about ATI cards. Start your own thread asking about the card, your troubles, power supply etc...


Sorry for asking for me asking Questions or commenting.  thanks again.


----------



## johnny-r (Feb 18, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Hello. Does anyone know about Graphic Card ATI Brand? And how good are theses cards.? I have seen them on the internet.


Bwahahaha ! atleast someone brought you up to speed !


----------



## Ryzen_7 (Feb 18, 2020)

efikkan said:


> How precisely have Nvidia crippled their mid-range cards?



nVIDIA's business practice (because they can and can afford it because they have large market share and popularity, they are like Intel of GPU world) is to deliberately gimp their cards so you need to buy more expensive card if you don't want to replace it to fast.

In old times, let's say Vanta vs TNT or M64 vs TNT2. In recent times, 3.5 GB VRAM fiasco with GTX 970, different perfomance of graphic cards of same chip depending on amount of VRAM or something.
Or being cheapskate with VRAM, while on Radeon you could get 4GB, nVIDIA was putting 2GB on their counterpart. So your Radeon with 4GB would be more future proof than GeForce with 2GB if you want higher details.



efikkan said:


> Speaking as someone who has been doing OpenGL development for way more than a decade, I do have a fairly good impression of how robust the various drivers are, both under "normal" use and during "mistreatment". I honestly have to say that Nvidia's driver is in a different league than AMD, and I wouldn't even consider running AMD cards in workstations for development purposes, that's just too many crashes and corruption issues to be productive.
> 
> AMD have to this day not added stable support for OpenGL 3.x/4.x, and shader issues and random glitches are still prevalent, and this is for the proprietary one, the "open source" one is much worse…



I know that OpenGL driver on GeForce or Quadro is well known for its stability and perfomance. Some are saying because of hacks or tricks while ATi/AMD was/is following strictly OpenGL standard.



efikkan said:


> I wouldn't even consider running AMD cards in workstations for development purposes, that's just too many crashes and corruption issues to be productive.



Mac Pro is using AMD's Pro line of graphic cards, they propably fixed those issues because it's to expensive product to be a joke, or not?


----------



## Vayra86 (Feb 18, 2020)

Ryzen_7 said:


> nVIDIA's business practice (because they can and can afford it because they have large market share and popularity, they are like Intel of GPU world) is to deliberately gimp their cards so you need to buy more expensive card if you don't want to replace it to fast.
> 
> In old times, let's say Vanta vs TNT or M64 vs TNT2. In recent times, 3.5 GB VRAM fiasco with GTX 970, different perfomance of graphic cards of same chip depending on amount of VRAM or something.
> Or being cheapskate with VRAM, while on Radeon you could get 4GB, nVIDIA was putting 2GB on their counterpart. So your Radeon with 4GB would be more future proof than GeForce with 2GB if you want higher details.
> ...



Ironically the (somewhat recent) card for which this counted most was the _high end_ HD7970 with its 3GB which lasted exceptionally long, compared to high end Kepler cards. Most of the time though, the card's performance goes obsolete right along with its VRAM. You're not wrong though, Nvidia is definitely tight on their VRAM balance and especially in the mid range you do find shitty capacities. The 1060 3GB is such an example, being rather similar to a 7970 but merely 2,5-3 years ago and not seven. Meanwhile, VRAM capacity requirements have soared. In some ways the 1050 with its 4GB is a more future proof choice.

The 970 was actually quite ahead of its time with the 4GB VRAM, albeit only 3.5GB was practically usable, it was still 'enough' for the card's performance. Until you really stretch it on SLI, but even then, Nvidia can play smart driver tricks, the card remained a decent performer post launch.

But its not just 'business practice' in the sense of business and money. The tight VRAM constraints of Nvidia cards have positive side effects: VRAM needs to be handled efficiently so you get a tighter driver regime (the response to VRAM problems is extremely quick most of the time, Nvidia knows its walking a fine line, clearly) because otherwise products simply don't work as advertised, which is a problem. You also get more and earlier progress on compression tech. Delta compression is still ahead of the curve @ green. And the result of thát is that they can make do with a smaller bus which leaves a bigger power budget for the core.

I'm not so sure one or the other approach is 'better', really. But yes, in the lower half of the midrange, you really gotta be careful with Nvidia cards. Not in the least because they have all sorts of memory across the stack, and its definitely a way to cap the performance for cheaper cards.


----------



## azngreentea01 (Feb 18, 2020)

Just bought a XFX 5700 xt THicc. So scare now.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 18, 2020)

azngreentea01 said:


> Just bought a XFX 5700 xt THicc. So scare now.


don't count your radeons until they crash


wait and see,you may be fine.


----------



## efikkan (Feb 18, 2020)

Ryzen_7 said:


> nVIDIA's business practice (because they can and can afford it because they have large market share and popularity, they are like Intel of GPU world) is to deliberately gimp their cards so you need to buy more expensive card if you don't want to replace it to fast.<snip> In recent times, 3.5 GB VRAM fiasco with GTX 970, different perfomance of graphic cards of same chip depending on amount of VRAM or something.


Not quite true, GTX 970 turned out to be the greatest buy of the Maxwell generation, it performed very close to GTX 980 at a much lower price, especially the AiB versions were a steal. And it did in fact have 4 GB RAM, the last 512 MB were just slower, but not that it really mattered, as the card would in most cases run into other bottlenecks first. GTX 970 beat GTX 960, GTX 980 and GTX 980 Ti in performance per Gflop, so in terms of resource balancing it was the most balanced of them all.



Ryzen_7 said:


> Or being cheapskate with VRAM, while on Radeon you could get 4GB, nVIDIA was putting 2GB on their counterpart. So your Radeon with 4GB would be more future proof than GeForce with 2GB if you want higher details.


It all depends on which card you (selectively) compare.
Future-proofing have been a selling argument for GCN cards since the start, with many buyers waiting for years until their Radeon card to finally beat Nvidia's counterpart, but it never happens, except for edge cases.

You select cards based on a representative selection of games at the time of purchase. Any attempt to guess which card will scale 5% better than the other 2-3 years down the line is bound to fail, and by that time it wouldn't matter anyway, since you will buy a replacement.



Ryzen_7 said:


> I know that OpenGL driver on GeForce or Quadro is well known for its stability and perfomance. Some are saying because of hacks or tricks while ATi/AMD was/is following strictly OpenGL standard.


OpenGL have two profiles; core and compatibility. Nvidia is a bit more permissive in compatibility mode, e.g. allowing HLSL syntax in shaders (since the shader core in Nvidia's driver is the same anyway), but this is not giving extra performance or stability. Most client software have to use the core profile anyway, since certain drivers don't run compatibility at all.

AMD is the one struggling with conformance.



Ryzen_7 said:


> Mac Pro is using AMD's Pro line of graphic cards, they propably fixed those issues because it's to expensive product to be a joke, or not?


AMD's OpenGL 2.1 support is fairly stable, it's the 3.x and 4.x stuff they struggle with.
But remember that OS X lacks the recent OpenGL versions, and are now in the process of deprecating it anyway, so Mac Pro is not using AMD cards for OpenGL…


----------



## Lindatje (Feb 18, 2020)

azngreentea01 said:


> Just bought a XFX 5700 xt THicc. So scare now.


Why? It`s a great card assuredly for price / performance.


----------



## Assimilator (Feb 18, 2020)

Ryzen_7 said:


> nVIDIA's business practice (because they can and can afford it because they have large market share and popularity, they are like Intel of GPU world) is to deliberately gimp their cards so you need to buy more expensive card if you don't want to replace it to fast.



Oh dear, this idiotic "argument" again. I think you should run back to /r/AMD, you'll feel much more comfortable there with all the other fanboys incapable of individual thought.


----------



## neatfeatguy (Feb 18, 2020)

My brother decided to go the AMD route when the 780Ti died on him and picked up a 5700XT over the RTX 2060. He's had the card just for about 7-8 weeks now, got it installed and is using a driver just before 20.1.1 released (probably some 19.12.2 or 19.12.3 driver). He had issues with whatever the most recent driver was for the card at the time he got it, but he went back to the one previous to it and it works just fine.

He said he wasn't going to bother changing the driver unless he had issues playing a game.

Overall, he's pretty happy with it. The card gives better performance over my 980Ti (so he's excited to have a GPU that's finally better than what I have) and he can max any game out on his 1080p monitor.


----------



## johnny-r (Feb 19, 2020)

Lindatje, thanks for sharing the link on the current dying nvidia g-card problem, I just helped out a friend or shared it with him struggling with his card.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 19, 2020)

johnny-r said:


> Lindatje, thanks for sharing the link on the current dying nvidia g-card problem, I just helped out a friend or shared it with him struggling with his card.


Current problem? My friend, this blew over a year ago. If this was still an issue, surely youd see fanboys/the whole amd crew still out in force over it. If their Bulldogs arent chomping at the bit...


@Ryzen_7 - Nvidia was proven not to gimp performance on older cards.. please stop with that FUD.


----------



## bug (Feb 19, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Current problem? My friend, this blew over a year ago.
> 
> 
> @Ryzen_7 - Nvidia was proven not to gimp performance on older cards.. please stop with that FUD.


But it's such a nice story... And a hate one at that.


----------



## johnny-r (Feb 20, 2020)

Well he is not in EU or US maybe he can just inform the supplier, at least get a refund.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 20, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Current problem? My friend, this blew over a year ago. If this was still an issue, surely youd see fanboys/the whole amd crew still out in force over it. If their Bulldogs arent chomping at the bit...
> 
> 
> @Ryzen_7 - Nvidia was proven not to gimp performance on older cards.. please stop with that FUD.


a whole seriers abou that (pu it i n google translate if you need but the numbers speak for themselves)








						Czy NVIDIA obniża wydajność starszych kart graficznych? Odc. 2, Maxwell v2
					

Test sterowników NVIDIA, na karcie graficznej generacji Maxwell - GeForce GTX 970. Zobacz wyniki testu i przekonaj się, czy zieloni spowalniają starsze GPU.




					ithardware.pl
				











						Czy NVIDIA obniża wydajność starszych kart graficznych? Odc. 3, Kepler
					

Test sterowników NVIDIA na karcie graficznej GeForce GTX 780, generacji Kepler. Sprawdź wyniki testu i zobacz, czy zieloni spowalniają starsze GPU.




					ithardware.pl
				











						Czy NVIDIA obniża wydajność starszych kart graficznych? Odc. 4, Fermi
					

Test sterowników NVIDIA na karcie graficznej generacji Fermi - GeForce GTX 580. Zobacz wyniki testu i przekonaj się, czy zieloni spowalniają starsze GPU.




					ithardware.pl
				




babeltech also did their








						The HD 7970 vs. the GTX 680 - revisited 3 years later - BabelTechReviews
					

The GTX 680 versus the HD 7970 was a classic confrontation that began in 2012 that we are now repeating 3 years later.  Codenamed Tahiti, the then new AMD flagship Radeon HD 7970 was announced on December 22, 2011, and it launched the next month at $550 with disappointing drivers which only...




					babeltechreviews.com
				











						Has Nvidia Forgotten Kepler? The GTX 780 Ti vs. the 290X Revisited - Page 2 of 4 - BabelTechReviews
					

Test Configuration – Today’s Hardware Intel Core i7-4790K (reference 4.0GHz, HyperThreading On, and Turbo Boost for all 4 cores is locked to 4.4GHz by the MB BIOS; DX11 CPU graphics), supplied by Intel. ASUS Z97-E motherboard (Intel Z97 chipset, latest BIOS, PCIe 3.0 specification, CrossFire/SLI...




					babeltechreviews.com
				






bug said:


> But it's such a nice story... And a hate one at that.


straight from adoredtv comment section


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 20, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Ironically the (somewhat recent) card for which this counted most was the _high end_ HD7970 with its 3GB which lasted exceptionally long, compared to high end Kepler cards. Most of the time though, the card's performance goes obsolete right along with its VRAM. You're not wrong though, Nvidia is definitely tight on their VRAM balance and especially in the mid range you do find shitty capacities. The 1060 3GB is such an example, being rather similar to a 7970 but merely 2,5-3 years ago and not seven. Meanwhile, VRAM capacity requirements have soared. In some ways the 1050 with its 4GB is a more future proof choice.
> 
> The 970 was actually quite ahead of its time with the 4GB VRAM, albeit only 3.5GB was practically usable, it was still 'enough' for the card's performance. Until you really stretch it on SLI, but even then, Nvidia can play smart driver tricks, the card remained a decent performer post launch.
> 
> ...



Some 7970s have 6G.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 20, 2020)

efikkan said:


> the "open source" one is much worse…



Not in my experience, but I was treating it as a gamer, not a dev.  It was a lot faster.


----------



## Vayra86 (Feb 20, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Some 7970s have 6G.



Yeah but how many actually are out in the wild. Its the same as that rare GTX 670 4GB... that virtually no one has. And they're all still stuck to the same bus width anyway. Which was the main limiter at that time. NOW, that same card might actually perform better than its half VRAM counterpart.

The point with the 3GB 7970 is that the bus width was also scaled to that capacity, so it had a lot of headroom on the VRAM, and it came into good use.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 20, 2020)

why are we talking about vram 8 years old cards in a thread about navi drivers ?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 20, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> a whole seriers abou that (pu it i n google translate if you need but the numbers speak for themselves)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because irrelevant nonsense , is so so often important to those that have no coin in the debate besides liking an argument, or winding up others.

Many should learn how to make their own thread's.


----------



## Regeneration (Feb 20, 2020)

Ditched 2 AMD cards in the past 5 years.

In 2015, bought R9 280X, was unhappy with the drivers and length of the card (less airflow in the case). Replaced it the next day with the more expensive GTX 970.

Last year, bought RX 580, drivers sucked, there were electrical issues with the card, replaced it twice, and then went with GTX 1070 for a bargain (40% off) after 5700 was annouced.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 20, 2020)

Regeneration said:


> Ditched 2 AMD cards in the past 5 years.
> 
> In 2015, bought R9 280X, was unhappy with the drivers and length of the card (less airflow in the case). Replaced it the next day with a GTX 970.
> 
> Last year, bought RX 580, drivers sucked, there were electrical issues with the card, replaced it twice, and then went with GTX 1070.


I actually loved the price/performance on my 7870GHz and 290 trix (had two in CF for a brief while),but DX11 cpu overhead was absolutely killing the performance in some games and that was with 2500K at 5GHz and DDR3 @2GHz.I don't think they ever fixed that.
Got rid of the second 290 quickly and the first one went when gtx 980 came out.Not looking back at amd since then - all nvidia cards I had were rock solid experience.

Sorry,but nvidia's running circles around amd driver team atm,how do you get rtx and dlss to work without crashing on launch but amd's navi still struggles with black screens since july.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 20, 2020)

I'm of the opinion there's an on silicon bug of some kind with the power management.  It seems to affect certain revisions and not others.  At the moment I think the 5700 non-XT is harder hit.

If anyone is running a reference RX 5700 (non-XT), having issues, and wants to help prove that with me, please see here:









						RX 5700 losing signal
					

Sorry for the delay, work tried to kill me last weekend.  :laugh:  Will make a softpowerplay table for you shortly.  My best idea as of now is simply dropping the ultra low voltage states.  It will increase idle heat but should fix your issue.  Is that worth it to you?   Id say it is in tradeoff...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




I mean, a bug is understandable, but if we can identify where it occurs and why, maybe we can at least provide a workaround for the affected cards and/or a justification for some RMA's.  I just sorta wish AMD would do this on it's own, but meh, this is kinda how their cards work.  Tweakfest it seems.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 20, 2020)

6G 7970 - Google Shopping


----------



## INSTG8R (Feb 20, 2020)

I just got my 5700XT today and so far I am very pleased with it so far for the performance uplift from Vega


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 20, 2020)

INSTG8R said:


> I just got my 5700XT today and so far I am very pleased with it so far for the performance uplift from Vega


When it works well, which we'd all assume is the majority of the time, it's a solid card for sure. Enjoy!


----------



## INSTG8R (Feb 20, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> When it works well, which we'd all assume is the majority of the time, it's a solid card for sure. Enjoy!


Yeah well I also have the advantage of being in the loop for fixes so I don't have many concerns at this point


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 20, 2020)

One thing I do love about AMD cards is man do they open the tweaking doors.  SoftPowerPlay tables are just as powerful as bios editing, basically.

But yeah, pros and cons gents.  Like anything.  I'd say overall I got exactly what I wanted, and am pleased.



cucker tarlson said:


> but DX11 cpu overhead was absolutely killing the performance in some games and that was with 2500K at 5GHz and DDR3 @2GHz.I don't think they ever fixed that.



I did an analysis of it then and repeated it without making charts recently.

At the time, I found overhead was not the issue, but rather that the driver was singlethreaded.

Fortunately, it does not appear to be strictly singlethreaded anymore, though it still scales rather poorly in DX11/OpenGL.  That's the takeaway.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 21, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> One thing I do love about AMD cards is man do they open the tweaking doors.  SoftPowerPlay tables are just as powerful as bios editing, basically.
> 
> But yeah, pros and cons gents.  Like anything.  I'd say overall I got exactly what I wanted, and am pleased.
> 
> ...


far cry 3?


----------



## steen (Feb 21, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> I'm of the opinion there's an on silicon bug of some kind with the power management.  It seems to affect certain revisions and not others.



There are numerous bugs in Navi10 as with most silicon. Some almost showstoppers. IIRC, A0/B0 steppings haven't been respun. I assume these are addressed in Navi12. Navi1x has an updated single cycle CU block & ISA on basically Vega setup.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Feb 21, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> One thing I do love about AMD cards is man do they open the tweaking doors.  SoftPowerPlay tables are just as powerful as bios editing, basically.



Still you cannot clock it more than is... they are software limited now, because it would brake their tier offerings... and that's utterly bad.


----------



## Midiamp (Feb 21, 2020)

My dear 5700XT... AMAZING when it works, annoying when the driver crashed, and it crashed a lot. I'm actually window shopping for 2070S and got my eye on Zotac or Inno3D solution, but leaning towards Zotac.

FYI, I just migrate my system from MSI B450 Tomahawk Max to Gigabyte B450-I with all components intact (3700X and 5700XT). So I did a clean install using Radeon drive 20.1.4 which I had downloaded a few weeks back, and holy [expletive]! I experienced major crashes. If I'm lucky I will get atikmdag.sys BSOD or Thread Exception Not Handled, some times, hard lock, but I know it's the GPU driver crash because every time, my Windows 10 spotlight lock screen resets to the default. I tried running stock, I even try underclocking + undervolting... No dice, crashed all the same.

BUT

If you guys notice, driver 20.1.4...  You can't find it on AMD.com download page anymore... 

Now I'm using the WHQL version which is the 20.1.3, so far one BSOD on cold boot and no other problem (yet). Played games, running stress test on 3Dmark, leaving torrent on for 24 hours. 

However, should removing driver from the download page is already a sign something bad happened? I wish AMD would communicate with their customer better. I support a fair market to keep Nvidia in check or they will just up prices like they did with the 2000 series willy nilly.

My friend works for AMD country branch. He did remind to always use WHQL drivers, and I didn't follow through as I downloaded every driver revision from AMD like a hungry hippo. Now I'm sticking with 20.1.3 and so far with just one BSOD after a cold boot, looks good.... I hope I don't jinx it and crash my PC after this post. LOL.

So far I'm sticking with my 5700XT... That, and I'm helping a friend selling his 5700XT, damn hard to sell. So maybe for economic reason as well.


----------



## INSTG8R (Feb 21, 2020)

steen said:


> There are numerous bugs in Navi10 as with most silicon. Some almost showstoppers. IIRC, A0/B0 steppings haven't been respun. I assume these are addressed in Navi12. Navi1x has an updated single cycle CU block & ISA on basically Vega setup.


Source? That’s a pretty bold claim to make without having some proof to back it up ...



Midiamp said:


> My dear 5700XT... AMAZING when it works, annoying when the driver crashed, and it crashed a lot. I'm actually window shopping for 2070S and got my eye on Zotac or Inno3D solution, but leaning towards Zotac.
> 
> FYI, I just migrate my system from MSI B450 Tomahawk Max to Gigabyte B450-I with all components intact (3700X and 5700XT). So I did a clean install using Radeon drive 20.1.4 which I had downloaded a few weeks back, and holy [expletive]! I experienced major crashes. If I'm lucky I will get atikmdag.sys BSOD or Thread Exception Not Handled, some times, hard lock, but I know it's the GPU driver crash because every time, my Windows 10 spotlight lock screen resets to the default. I tried running stock, I even try underclocking + undervolting... No dice, crashed all the same.
> 
> ...


I think I can say this without getting into trouble but getting these driver fixed it of that absolute highest priority tight now.


----------



## Midiamp (Feb 21, 2020)

INSTG8R said:


> I think I can say this without getting into trouble but getting these driver fixed it of that absolute highest priority tight now.


I concur, I don't need all these fancy recording/streaming features, or even performance uptick, just a solid driver for every update and if possible a fix for maxed out VRAM clock for differing multi monitor refresh rate.

UPDATE... Well... Just got dxgmm2.sys BSOD... For crying out loud.


----------



## INSTG8R (Feb 21, 2020)

Midiamp said:


> I concur, I don't need all these fancy recording/streaming features, or even performance uptick, just a solid driver for every update and if possible a fix for maxed out VRAM clock for differing multi monitor refresh rate.
> 
> UPDATE... Well... Just got dxgmm2.sys BSOD... For crying out loud.


Hold on just awhile longer it should pay off when it all gets sorted. I’m really enjoying my experience so far and you should too


----------



## Rahnak (Feb 21, 2020)

@Midiamp have you tried older drivers? Like 19.x ?


----------



## HD64G (Feb 21, 2020)

I wonder why some people bother posting so much profoundly fake news in such an experienced members forum.


----------



## Midiamp (Feb 21, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> @Midiamp have you tried older drivers? Like 19.x ?


I'm downloading 19.12.3 (last WHQL 2019 Adrenalin) as I'm typing this. Let's see how it goes.



INSTG8R said:


> Hold on just awhile longer it should pay off when it all gets sorted. I’m really enjoying my experience so far and you should too


I'm very patient about this, however I'm between semester (am a lecturer) so I have free time to tinker, but comes new semester next week, my PC needs to be steadfast as I am. I hope AMD can update its driver soon.


----------



## INSTG8R (Feb 21, 2020)

Midiamp said:


> I'm downloading 19.12.3 (last WHQL 2019 Adrenali) as I'm typing this. Let's see how it goes.


Yeah for now that's honestly not a bad idea right now..


----------



## Chomiq (Feb 21, 2020)

Midiamp said:


> I'm downloading 19.12.3 (last WHQL 2019 Adrenali) as I'm typing this. Let's see how it goes.


Just an FYI, spotlight picture resetting to default also happens on changes to ram, etc.


----------



## Deleted member 193792 (Feb 21, 2020)

steen said:


> There are numerous bugs in Navi10 as with most silicon. Some almost showstoppers. IIRC, A0/B0 steppings haven't been respun. I assume these are addressed in Navi12. Navi1x has an updated single cycle CU block & ISA on basically Vega setup.


Interesting. Source?

I don't understand why PC GPUs aren't being tested more before product release, unlike console APUs for example.

Imagine if PS5 releases with game-breaking silicon bugs...



INSTG8R said:


> Source? That’s a pretty bold claim to make without having some proof to back it up ...


There seems to be some kind of faulty DMA implementation according to this:




__





						111481 – AMD Navi GPU frequent freezes on both Manjaro/Ubuntu with kernel 5.3 and mesa 19.2 -git/llvm9
					






					bugs.freedesktop.org
				



DMA basically affects everything, including Chrome/Discord hardware acceleration.


----------



## Rahnak (Feb 21, 2020)

jermando said:


> I don't understand why PC GPUs aren't being tested more before product release, unlike console APUs for example.
> 
> Imagine if PS5 releases with game-breaking silicon bugs...


AMD and NVIDIA release several new GPUs every year or every other year, consoles on the other hand have just one GPU that lasts around 5-7 years.


----------



## Deleted member 193792 (Feb 21, 2020)

Rahnak said:


> AMD and NVIDIA release several new GPUs every year or every other year, consoles on the other hand have just one GPU that lasts around 5-7 years.


I get that, but when you spend 400-500$/€ for a graphics card, you expect it to work properly.

I know that many PC users upgrade more often than console users, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to sell faulty products (no matter the vendor)...


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 21, 2020)

jermando said:


> I get that, but when you spend 400-500$/€ for a graphics card, you expect it to work properly.
> 
> I know that many PC users upgrade more often than console users, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable to sell faulty products (no matter the vendor)...


Expecting it to work properly and comparing it to a console are two different things. Sure we expect it to work properly...of course! 

But one hardware configuration (console) versus an infinite amount of PCs and several GPUs (PC)... should shed light on it for you.


----------



## INSTG8R (Feb 21, 2020)

jermando said:


> Interesting. Source?
> 
> I don't understand why PC GPUs aren't being tested more before product release, unlike console APUs for example.
> 
> ...


I'll pass it along


----------



## Deleted member 193792 (Feb 21, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> One hardware configuration (console) versus an infinite amount of PCs and several GPUs (PC)... does that shed light on it?


The uarch (Navi/RDNA) is the same across all machines. It's called economies of scale. 

The big differentiator is the number of CUs, memory bus width and stuff like that. Kinda like LEGO building blocks. More blocks, more power.

DMA/copy engines are standard on every GPU, just like video encode/decode engines.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 21, 2020)

jermando said:


> The uarch (Navi/RDNA) is the same across all machines. It's called economies of scale.
> 
> The big differentiator is the number of CUs, memory bus width and stuff like that. Kinda like LEGO building blocks. More blocks, more power.
> 
> DMA/copy engines are standard on every GPU, just like video encode/decode engines.


Right.......... but if it was that easy, neither camp would have issues, now would they?

Again, we all expect it to work properly (duh!), but it's a completely different ecosystem, a PC versus a single hw config. Not a valid comparison.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 21, 2020)

jermando said:


> The uarch (Navi/RDNA) is the same across all machines. It's called economies of scale.
> 
> The big differentiator is the number of CUs, memory bus width and stuff like that. Kinda like LEGO building blocks. More blocks, more power.
> 
> DMA/copy engines are standard on every GPU, just like video encode/decode engines.


the Uarch evolves over time as does console silicon, it does not stay the same at all, same as anything else sold on mass its iterated so as to save coin.

your oversimplifying both the issue and everything else.

AMD's issues are at the fore today but to believe they are exceptional or unique completely writes off your other points to me.

you know some stuff (opinion) as fact yet the reality has escaped you.

all three (pertinant) vendors consistently , repeatedly and undoubtedly have a list of Known errata (read errors) on EVERY bit of silicon, some tell you some dont.


----------



## Deleted member 193792 (Feb 21, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> the Uarch evolves over time as does console silicon, it does not stay the same at all, same as anything else sold on mass its iterated so as to save coin.
> 
> your oversimplifying both the issue and everything else.
> 
> ...


Seriously man? You sent me a PM with apologies and now this?

Listen to me, back when nVidia had a subpar Async compute implementation (Maxwell era), I used to defend AMD and GCN. Back then, some people like you (from the opposite -green- camp) called me nVidia hater/AMD fanboy. It's called brand tribalism and it's part of human nature. I get it. Doesn't mean I have to brush it off.

Stop judging people that you don't know. That's all I have to say.

If AMD fixes Navi/driver issues in let's say 2024, then I'll gladly recommend them again. And if nVidia screws up their 2024 GPUs, I'll stop recommending them.

I cannot make it any more clear than that.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 21, 2020)

jermando said:


> Seriously man? You sent me a PM with apologies and now this?
> 
> Listen to me, back when nVidia had a subpar Async compute implementation (Maxwell era), I used to defend AMD and GCN. Back then, some people like you (from the opposite -green- camp) called me nVidia hater/AMD fanboy. It's called brand tribalism and it's part of human nature. I get it. Doesn't mean I have to brush it off.
> 
> ...


we disagree on stuff eh.

I didn't call or imply you are a fan boy , just that I Disagree with your opinion and I stated why, and it was aimed at a few of your post's.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 21, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> we disagree on stuff eh.
> 
> I didn't call or imply you are a fan boy , just that I Disagree with your opinion and I stated why, and it was aimed at a few of your post's.



This is the reason I buy what I want and say forget the rest.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 21, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> far cry 3?



Wasn't in my test suite.  I mainly tested games I play in a lineup, so Vermintide 2, Deep Rock Galactic, and Kerbal Space Program DX11/OpenGL all got a showing.



steen said:


> There are numerous bugs in Navi10 as with most silicon. Some almost showstoppers. IIRC, A0/B0 steppings haven't been respun. I assume these are addressed in Navi12. Navi1x has an updated single cycle CU block & ISA on basically Vega setup.



Yeah, I'm focused on the one I can prove exists and possibly make a work around for.  Undocumented bug rumors serve no one.



Ferrum Master said:


> Still you cannot clock it more than is... they are software limited now, because it would brake their tier offerings... and that's utterly bad.



Uh, yeah you can with the SoftPowerPlayTables.  No promise it will work but you can.  I've gone over 2200Mhz.  Crash fest but certainly doable.


----------



## Fluffmeister (Feb 22, 2020)

So what is the consensus then? Solid card, dodgy drivers? Fine wine, or fine whine?

Sounds fairly AMD to me reading around *don't shot*.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 22, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Recently there have been many reports of driver issues, so a poll.
> 
> Only the last three months drivers are in question here , And only Gpu's that are still supported officially.
> 
> ...


Have your part in a say over there, GPU driver issue poll.


----------



## Fluffmeister (Feb 22, 2020)

33 voters so far, we don't know how many of those AMD users have Navi based cards, and Nvidia massively outsell AMD anyway.

That is fun and all, but it doesn't answer the question.


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Feb 22, 2020)

Well, I took a chance picking up an open box ASrock 5700 XT for $270. It’s an older blower card, but for that price I was willing to give it a shot. It arrives Sunday, so wish me luck!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 22, 2020)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> Well, I took a chance picking up an open box ASrock 5700 XT for $270. It’s an older blower card, but for that price I was willing to give it a shot. It arrives Sunday, so wish me luck!



Grab an aftermarket cooler for it or learn the washer mod...


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Feb 22, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Grab an aftermarket cooler for it or learn the washer mod...


Yeah, I’ll see how it performs with undervolting and a custom fan curve, but the aftermarket cooler is on my radar. My desktop is in the basement, so I get cooler than average ambient year-round. And no, I don’t live with my mom!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 22, 2020)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> Yeah, I’ll see how it performs with undervolting and a custom fan curve, but the aftermarket cooler is on my radar. My desktop is in the basement, so I get cooler than average ambient year-round. And no, I don’t live with my mom!



You didn't have to put that bit in lol. Everyone's living situation is different, I'm living on a couch due to circumstances in 2017 and employment loss in 2019. Bills are being paid though...

Checkout igorslab radeon tweakers group for mods


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Feb 22, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> You didn't have to put that bit in lol. Everyone's living situation is different, I'm living on a couch due to circumstances in 2017 and employment loss in 2019. Bills are being paid though...
> 
> Checkout igorslab radeon tweakers group for mods


Yeah, I was just trying to be funny about the whole basement PC thing. It's a different situation for me. It's the only corner of the house that I can set up shop!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 22, 2020)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> Yeah, I was just trying to be funny about the whole basement PC thing. It's a different situation for me. It's the only corner of the house that I can set up shop!



Id like to have a small engine/pc repair shop myself.


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Feb 22, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Some 7970s have 6G.


thread dump...sorry
How many of the 5700's are flashable to 5700xt's? or which are more likely? best guess


----------



## Xzibit (Feb 22, 2020)

Midiamp said:


> If you guys notice, driver 20.1.4...  You can't find it on AMD.com download page anymore...
> 
> Now I'm using the WHQL version which is the 20.1.3, so far one BSOD on cold boot and no other problem (yet). Played games, running stress test on 3Dmark, leaving torrent on for 24 hours.
> 
> ...



Not sure where your looking but 20.1.4 is there.  Since 20.2.1 is the newest one you have to click on *Previous Drivers.*

Only the most recent driver and the latest WHQL driver are maintained on the first page


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 22, 2020)

Fluffmeister said:


> So what is the consensus then? Solid card, dodgy drivers? Fine wine, or fine whine?
> 
> Sounds fairly AMD to me reading around *don't shot*.



"meh"

Mixed really.  If it affects you it sucks.  If not, gravy.



eidairaman1 said:


> You didn't have to put that bit in lol. Everyone's living situation is different, I'm living on a couch due to circumstances in 2017 and employment loss in 2019. Bills are being paid though...
> 
> Checkout igorslab radeon tweakers group for mods



Been in the "living on a couch thing" man.  It never is fun.  Good luck, if you have good skills someday it'll work out.


----------



## Solaris17 (Feb 22, 2020)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> Well, I took a chance picking up an open box ASrock 5700 XT for $270. It’s an older blower card, but for that price I was willing to give it a shot. It arrives Sunday, so wish me luck!



how TF are you getting it that cheap?! I’d love to play with one and use something neweron the flashing guide but I’m not burning $ on a 5700XT


----------



## Ferrum Master (Feb 22, 2020)

Solaris17 said:


> how TF are you getting it that cheap?! I’d love to play with one and use something neweron the flashing guide but I’m not burning $ on a 5700XT



Because it is open box? The seller just do not want to stock up unreturnable items. Gave it away without added profit.


----------



## Solaris17 (Feb 22, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> Because it is open box? The seller just do not want to stock up unreturnable items. Gave it away without added profit.



somehow totally missed open box good call


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Feb 22, 2020)

It was from B&H. They are more known for photography gear than PC parts, but when they do have an open box item, it is usually at a pretty deep discount. It might have been a return, so I am taking a chance, but B&H has an awesome return policy.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 23, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> "meh"
> 
> Mixed really.  If it affects you it sucks.  If not, gravy.
> 
> ...



Electrically/Mechanically Inclined

Oh i have plenty just back in school for an A&P license since most Aviation field careers say it is preferred, I have a Avionics Systems (Com/Nav/FLCS/ECM/Fire Controls/Fuel System) background from my time in the AF from 2005-2010


----------



## efikkan (Feb 23, 2020)

Fluffmeister said:


> So what is the consensus then? Solid card, dodgy drivers? Fine wine, or fine whine?
> 
> Sounds fairly AMD to me reading around *don't shot*.


Well, like I said in my first post; if there are problems that only exist on Navi, it shouldn't be driver related at all, since the Navi driver is only a Vega/Polaris driver with some minor adjustments.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Feb 23, 2020)

it does seem very odd that problems persist 7 months after the launch.


----------



## efikkan (Feb 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> it does seem very odd that problems persist 7 months after the launch.


It does, that's why it's important that AMD takes this seriously and dig down to identify the concrete underlying problem(s), and address them accordingly. There is a good chance that there might be several factors at play here, and end-users are generally very unreliable when describing problems precisely. But this doesn't mean we should dismiss the fact that they're complaining about problems.


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Feb 23, 2020)

Well, mine arrived today and everything seems to be in working order—card is mint and quite hefty. My limited testing has Destiny 2 running great in 4K with most settings on high (my goal is to keep a solid 60fps). I enabled auto undervolt, and the card has no problem holding 2060mhz on luxmark. I’ll see how it does in games more extensively tonight. Also, my 500w PSU is managing ok so far. I’m pulling about 350w from the wall from my rig. The blower isn’t too bad, but I also have lots of background noise most of the time, being in unfinished basement space. Not bad for $270!


----------



## xkm1948 (Feb 23, 2020)

efikkan said:


> Well, like I said in my first post; if there are problems that only exist on Navi, it shouldn't be driver related at all, since the Navi driver is only a Vega/Polaris driver with some minor adjustments.



How can you be sure of that? Without dissecting the source code there is no way to tell.


----------



## efikkan (Feb 23, 2020)

xkm1948 said:


> How can you be sure of that? Without dissecting the source code there is no way to tell.


That's a very safe bet. Firstly we know the ISA is practically the same, and secondly we know the Mesa drivers (which interfaces with the same firmware) have only a few adjustments for Navi.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 23, 2020)

xkm1948 said:


> How can you be sure of that? Without dissecting the source code there is no way to tell.



There are lots of ways to tell.  For starters, the softpowerplay tables enable completely different feature sets between vega/polaris and navi.

So really, it's complete bs:  they are nothing alike.



efikkan said:


> That's a very safe bet. Firstly we know the ISA is practically the same, and secondly we know the Mesa drivers (which interfaces with the same firmware) have only a few adjustments for Navi.



Wut?  Have you even looked at the actaul clusterbomb of mesa diffs that were needed?

The ISA might be similar but off the top of my head, power management is completely rewritten, at bear minimum.  It talks to firmware about that now instead of just using granular dpm states.


----------



## xkm1948 (Feb 23, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> There are lots of ways to tell.  For starters, the softpowerplay tables enable completely different feature sets between vega/polaris and navi.
> 
> So really, it's complete bs:  they are nothing alike.
> 
> ...




I feel AMD should just put all GCN cards in legacy support so they can focus on getting the new uArc support where it was supposed to be 7 months ago. GCN drivers were really good already so really no need to accidentally mess it up.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 23, 2020)

xkm1948 said:


> I feel AMD should just put all GCN cards in legacy support so they can focus on getting the new uArc support where it was supposed to be 7 months ago. GCN drivers were really good already so really no need to accidentally mess it up.



I've personally had really good luck using the Radeon Pro driver releases in gaming.  It might be advisable for others to try similar.

About the only thing you lose is Integer Scaling...  and Vulkan 1.2, but who cares?



xkm1948 said:


> I feel AMD should just put all GCN cards in legacy support so they can focus on getting the new uArc support where it was supposed to be 7 months ago. GCN drivers were really good already so really no need to accidentally mess it up.



As long as we make clear legacy != abandoned, sure.


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Feb 24, 2020)

So far so good. I’m guessing the previous owner (if it was a return) didn’t like the noise, because otherwise the card seems to work just fine. I did have an issue with SOTR, but it turns out a couple game files were corrupted since the last time I played it, and a Steam validation check fixed that problem. I did go in and do a custom fan curve, and also limited the top clock to 2000 at 1150mV. That helps keep the temps in check and the blower from not getting too offensive. I’m running the recommended drivers, 20.1.3. I also played Forza 7 without issue too. The 5700 XT handles that game at 4K with ease.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 24, 2020)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> So far so good. I’m guessing the previous owner (if it was a return) didn’t like the noise, because otherwise the card seems to work just fine. I did have an issue with SOTR, but it turns out a couple game files were corrupted since the last time I played it, and a Steam validation check fixed that problem. I did go in and do a custom fan curve, and also limited the top clock to 2000 at 1150mV. That helps keep the temps in check and the blower from not getting too offensive. I’m running the recommended drivers, 20.1.3. I also played Forza 7 without issue too. The 5700 XT handles that game at 4K with ease.



Just upgrade to a arctic, rajintek or gelid cooler or drop aio on it


----------



## HTC (Feb 24, 2020)

Has anyone seen this?

RMA-rates (hardware defects) RX 5000 Series @ mindfactory.de

It's about hardware issues and not driver issues but i suppose it's good to know, right?


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 24, 2020)

HTC said:


> Has anyone seen this?
> 
> RMA-rates (hardware defects) RX 5000 Series @ mindfactory.de
> 
> It's about hardware issues and not driver issues but i suppose it's good to know, right?



Ironically the 2080ti still has the highest failure rate and those are supposed to be the pinnacle of premium cards.


----------



## Icon Charlie (Feb 24, 2020)

I have posted previously about my video cards.  Dell VisionTek 5700  and a XFX 5700XT  Both are Reference Cards and costs $280 and $300 new. Holiday purchases.   I must be lucky but I have not had any driver issues.

After undervolting the VisionTek card it runs real nice, real cool and uses lower watts.  

But I have been noticing that on other sights they have been reporting issues with these cards.  Both Drivers and HardWare.

In my case I will not recommend the XFX 5700XT to anyone regardless of if is a reference model or not.  Quality control is lacking and it seems ASUS is the same way. 

This is also AMD's fault with this GPU.  There is a sweet spot on these cards and once you find them they tend to run nice AND cool.    But the settings are always lower than what is posted on the box.  IMHO the 5700XT cards are nothing but glorified overclocked GPU's that you are spending a premium on.  I have been telling my clientele base to think twice on these cards. 

I'm neither a AMD/INTEL/NVIDIA fanboi.  I just want the product to work for a reasonable price without gimmicks, without balled faced lies about performance and in my 6 decades of living so far I never seen anyone get laid just because of the bling bling on their computer.

Now If you can pick up a 5700 for under $300 and you really do you your homework then I would recommend the 5700.  I'm enjoying mine

Otherwise pay the Nvidia premium tax and get a lesser performance card for the same price.


----------



## Recus (Feb 24, 2020)

Vya Domus said:


> Ironically the 2080ti still has the highest failure rate and those are supposed to be the pinnacle of premium cards.



Hardware Unboxed said AMD RMA is 5x higher than Nvidia. Where are official Mindfactory.de RMA numbers? Not some alternative Reddit numbers?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 24, 2020)

Icon Charlie said:


> I have posted previously about my video cards.  Dell VisionTek 5700  and a XFX 5700XT  Both are Reference Cards and costs $280 and $300 new. Holiday purchases.   I must be lucky but I have not had any driver issues.
> 
> After undervolting the VisionTek card it runs real nice, real cool and uses lower watts.
> 
> ...


Msi Evoke too.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 24, 2020)

Regeneration said:


> Last year, bought RX 580, drivers sucked, there were electrical issues with the card, replaced it twice, and then went with GTX 1070 for a bargain (40% off) after 5700 was annouced.


That's very subjective. I still use a RX 580 and never had a driver issue, not now and not last year. Plus I liked the driver interface from last year, though I don't mind the new version either.



Recus said:


> Hardware Unboxed said AMD RMA is 5x higher than Nvidia. Where are official Mindfactory.de RMA numbers? Not some alternative Reddit numbers?


Once again, Hardware Unboxed claiming that AMDs RMA is 5x higher than Nvidia is Subjective. The majority of the issues is people not properly uninstalling existing drivers. Not denying there isn't a driver issue, but a lot of the Reddit nonsense has been overblown on purpose with many so called 5700 owners returning these GPUs for Nvidia equivalents. Those particular stories are just that, stories to paint a bad picture on AMD.



HTC said:


> Has anyone seen this?
> 
> RMA-rates (hardware defects) RX 5000 Series @ mindfactory.de
> 
> It's about hardware issues and not driver issues but i suppose it's good to know, right?


So pretty much at that store, RMA rates for both AMD & Nvidia are pretty close. I cannot believe the cost of the GPU goes up if they actually test the bloody thing for about 7 hours as opposed to 1/2 hour LOL, can't believe that nonsense. It seems as though QC has been thrown out the window overall.
*NOTE:
RMA-rate is not correlated to volume of Unit Sold. This is because in the UK Sapphire is predominate seller of Radeon GPUs. *

Another issue is a GPU can have a hardware issue, and people blame the drivers.


----------



## candle_86 (Feb 24, 2020)

I had to use older drivers to get an r9 390 to work the latest drivers just give a black screen


----------



## HD64G (Feb 24, 2020)

Opposite to turing GPUs artifacting or dying, most Navi RMAs should be related to bad drivers and users not knowing how to proper clean uninstall-install them. My 5c.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 24, 2020)

candle_86 said:


> I had to use older drivers to get an r9 390 to work the latest drivers just give a black screen


OK. That's an isolated driver issue with that particular card.

My point was that both Nvidia and AMD have various driver issues. In the past and present and I'm sure in the future too. But people are making it look like AMD drivers are bad and Nvidia's are like little Angels lol clearly not the case.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 24, 2020)

Super XP said:


> OK. That's an isolated driver issue with that particular card.
> 
> My point was that both Nvidia and AMD have various driver issues. In the past and present and I'm sure in the future too. *But people are making it look like AMD drivers are bad and Nvidia's are like little Angels lol clearly not the case.*


Did anyone do that, though, really?

Neither are angels, indeed, but let's be honest....right now and at least since the release of Navi, but especially since the release of Adrenalin 2020, AMD drivers are not as stable as Nvidia's. The fix list since A2020 has been long and the fixes frequent (the latter certainly a GOOD thing). AMD even admitted they had an issue with the A2020 driver!

If people are saying Nvidia is problem free, they are just as much delusional as some are denying AMD currently (and for the last several months) has more issues. They are working their arse off to fix it as we can see with hotfixes and the unusually close releases... so any that still have issues, it's a WIP.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 24, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Did anyone do that, though, really?
> 
> Neither are angels, indeed, but let's be honest....right now and at least since the release of Navi, but especially since the release of Adrenalin 2020, AMD drivers are not as stable as Nvidia's. The fix list since A2020 has been long and the fixes frequent (the latter certainly a GOOD thing). AMD even admitted they had an issue with the A2020 driver!
> 
> If people are saying Nvidia is problem free, they are just as much delusional as some are denying AMD currently (and for the last several months) has more issues. They are working their arse off to fix it as we can see with hotfixes and the unusually close releases... so any that still have issues, it's a WIP.


YES. 
But I suspect Nvidia Fanboys that don't own Radeon cards are regurgitating actual Radeon owner complaints. 

Correct there is some issues with AMD AD2020 drivers but at the same time a lot of the issues could have been mitigated with proper uninstall and reinstall. User error is another issue, as stated a few times on Reddit. People installed new 5700XTs without resetting there Overclocked memory and CPUs. As soon as they reset those memory overclocks no more 5700XT stability issues. Then they work there Ram speed back up gradually.


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 24, 2020)

Recus said:


> Hardware Unboxed said AMD RMA is 5x higher than Nvidia. Where are official Mindfactory.de RMA numbers? Not some alternative Reddit numbers?



Imagine the sort of mental gymnastics you'd have to pull to believe that numbers that come from an actual retailer are less believeble than the ones that come from something like Hardware Unboxed.

The numbers are made up, don't worry mate, carry on.


----------



## Assimilator (Feb 24, 2020)

Super XP said:


> YES.
> But I suspect Nvidia Fanboys that don't own Radeon cards are regurgitating actual Radeon owner complaints.



As opposed to you, a Radeon fanboy who just s**tposts in any thread critical of AMD for whatever reason.

Here's a novel idea, Captain Genius: us NVIDIA card owners *want* to buy AMD cards, but aren't willing to put up with driver issues. We *want* AMD to fix its drivers so we can be comfortable buying their GPUs. We *want* to give AMD our money, but aren't prepared to put up with substandard driver quality.



Super XP said:


> Correct there is some issues with AMD AD2020 drivers but at the same time a lot of the issues could have been mitigated with proper uninstall and reinstall. User error is another issue, as stated a few times on Reddit. People installed new 5700XTs without resetting there Overclocked memory and CPUs. As soon as they reset those memory overclocks no more 5700XT stability issues. Then they work there Ram speed back up gradually.



And the majority of people with AMD GPU driver issues don't have overclocks, or dialling their OCs down doesn't make any difference. So did you have a point, or are you just here to spread whataboutism as usual?


----------



## Super XP (Feb 24, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> As opposed to you, a Radeon fanboy who just s**tposts in any thread critical of AMD for whatever reason.
> 
> Here's a novel idea, Captain Genius: us NVIDIA card owners *want* to buy AMD cards, but aren't willing to put up with driver issues. We *want* AMD to fix its drivers so we can be comfortable buying their GPUs. We *want* to give AMD our money, but aren't prepared to put up with substandard driver quality.
> 
> ...


I already made a valid and substantiated point with regards to Ram overclocks causing issues. I also agreed many people are having legitimate driver issues too.

Claiming otherwise is calling a bunch of people on Amazon, Newegg and Reddit reviews and comments a bunch of imbiciles and liars. ARE They?? 

That's interesting, as I choose Radeon graphics for stability as I've had issues with Nvidia drivers in the past. Though I'll probably never purchase a GeForce card for the foreseeable future Only because of what Nvidia stands for. Deep throating the industry with its GPP scam. But that's a different discussion on a different thread.


----------



## freeagent (Feb 24, 2020)

I would buy one, but not with these driver issues. I come from a land where everything works, I’m not willing to drop good money on good hardware with broken software. I would buy if they can fix their software, which sounds like they are, slowly but surely. There is hope.


----------



## Darmok N Jalad (Feb 24, 2020)

I’ve played three different titles for several hours now. I had one crash, but I believe that was due to too much of an undervolt. It’s otherwise no-nonsense work. I wonder how many returns are simply due to the blower on early models. It does have the ability to get loud, and that might have been off-putting for many.


----------



## Super XP (Feb 25, 2020)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> I’ve played three different titles for several hours now. I had one crash, but I believe that was due to too much of an undervolt. It’s otherwise no-nonsense work. I wonder how many returns are simply due to the blower on early models. It does have the ability to get loud, and that might have been off-putting for many.


I hope AMD never releases a Blower Reference GPU again.  The Radeon VII cooler should be the standard reference cooler for Radeon cards. It cools great and looks great.


----------



## bug (Feb 25, 2020)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> I’ve played three different titles for several hours now. I had one crash, but I believe that was due to too much of an undervolt. It’s otherwise no-nonsense work. I wonder how many returns are simply due to the blower on early models. It does have the ability to get loud, and that might have been off-putting for many.


Does it really matter what's the cause? At the end of the day a disappointed user is a disappointed user. Not only are they very likely to avoid the make for a few generations, but they'll also give you a good deal of badmouth (sp?).


----------



## Vayra86 (Feb 25, 2020)

Vya Domus said:


> Ironically the 2080ti still has the highest failure rate and those are supposed to be the pinnacle of premium cards.



Its not entirely suprising for such a massive die and higher TDP card to have higher return rates. Lower total number and less options for binning any failures... Falls right in line with most other big chips over the years I think. Also remember the Space Invaders bad batch. That's definitely made a dent. And even today I do see that 2080ti topic pop up every so often, with a problem card. Much more so than any other Turing gpu except for Gigabyte's blocks of horror.

What's much more surprising to me is that Navi's are at least double the return rate of similar performance Turing cards, while those Turing dies are much bigger, too. And that is even discounting the outliers which consist mainly of very weak AIB releases (10%?! holy shit... its a miracle Powercolor is still playing the game). Now thát is not unique to AMD. But those Navi returns are high across the board, or at least, notably higher than the competitor.

Premium or not has never had any sort of effect on return rates, quite the contrary. But if a mass produced midranger has higher return rates, that is very costly. You're not talking about a few dozen cards now, but a few thousand, and on top of that, the margins are not quite as high per card either.



Super XP said:


> YES.
> But I suspect Nvidia Fanboys that don't own Radeon cards are regurgitating actual Radeon owner complaints.
> 
> Correct there is some issues with AMD AD2020 drivers but at the same time a lot of the issues could have been mitigated with proper uninstall and reinstall. User error is another issue, as stated a few times on Reddit. People installed new 5700XTs without resetting there Overclocked memory and CPUs. As soon as they reset those memory overclocks no more 5700XT stability issues. Then they work there Ram speed back up gradually.



Ehh gonna stop you there.

User error? Let's go over a little comparison if you're not a total geek like one of us but a random Joe wanting to play games.
- Nvidia cards don't require DDU, I've never ever used it even for an AMD> NV switch... In every single case it was plug and play, really. Beyond that... overclocking was two clicks and done since Kepler. The OC was stable and if it wasn't it would show you within minutes of play. Temps, even on the blower, were kept in check because of a strict driver/BIOS regime. Yes, it would throttle. But it wouldn't hit 90C and overall performance remained normal.
- Can't install Navi without resetting memory and CPU OC? How is that normal? Especially for Joe, how the hell would he know? Working up to recover your old OC because a new GPU was inserted? What madness is this? And what does that balance trick say about the general stability of your GPU?

See, that is the difference in a nutshell right there. An Nvidia card is fire and forget. An AMD card is like UT'99's Redeemer, if you don't keep tight control, you're not gonna have a good time. And its a different sort of beast every. single. time. If its not BIOS, or post launch spec changes, or shitty AIB versions, its the actual drivers from AMD itself. And if all is well, the cards aren't in stock...



bug said:


> Does it really matter what's the cause? At the end of the day a disappointed user is a disappointed user. Not only are they very likely to avoid the make for a few generations, but they'll also give you a good deal of badmouth (sp?).



This, precisely. Its all about consistency, and faith in company/product. Hard to build, easy to lose.


----------



## ratirt (Feb 25, 2020)

Funny thing is i never had a driver issue but I've encountered hardware issue (return the card, NV card to be exact) Had cards from both camps and never had an issue with the driver. Sometimes tweaks were in order or reinstalling but that is mostly it. My buddies have no issues either and they've got 5700 and 5700 XT's 5600XT you name it. I'm really surprised you are still on this bullshit. Game can have an issue with the driver and needs some tweaks. You can run apps accelerated by GPUs and no issues. Run a game and something isn't right but with this one all other 10 are OK. 
We need to understand few things. 
1st it is something new and it may happen that there will be issues. 
2nd it may be a hardware issue not related to the chip or the driver but the gpu producer. (asus or xfx) 
3rd user laziness and lack of basic knowledge (and in my book this is a 90% of the issues). I always had a saying when dealing with users in the past when being an administrator and help users overcome their problems. Stop user'ing, give a detailed explanation what the problem is an maybe think what you have done wrong. It is mostly human factor that something craps out.
How many times someone did something stupid blaming hardware or software. There was only one major problem. Person that is using it.


----------



## Vayra86 (Feb 25, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Funny thing is i never had a driver issue but I've encountered hardware issue (return the card, NV card to be exact) Had cards from both camps and never had an issue with the driver. Sometimes tweaks were in order or reinstalling but that is mostly it. My buddies have no issues either and they've got 5700 and 5700 XT's 5600XT you name it. I'm really surprised you are still on this bullshit. Game can have an issue with the driver and needs some tweaks. You can run apps accelerated by GPUs and no issues. Run a game and something isn't right but with this one all other 10 are OK.
> We need to understand few things.
> 1st it is something new and it may happen that there will be issues.
> 2nd it may be a hardware issue not related to the chip or the driver but the gpu producer. (asus or xfx)
> ...



TL DR 'I never had an issue so it doesn't exist and everyone is full of it'

1st its not new, the card is seven months old
2nd it may be anything but does it matter? Product doesn't work as advertised.
3rd See post above.

Blaming user error here is so far off the mark... unreal


----------



## ratirt (Feb 25, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> TL DR 'I never had an issue so it doesn't exist and everyone is full of it'
> 
> Blaming user error here is so far off the mark... unreal


yes I haven't had an issue. (I had but I was able to deal with it myself). It is not to say there is no issues because I haven't had any. 
not saying it may not exist but I've seen it. experienced it and I know how people are reacting. It is way better to blame hardware or a driver than incompetency of their own. 

Why is it unreal? We have all used same drivers and I haven't seen or been told by my friends having any problems? If it were a driver issue the problems would happen on all the 5000 series cards wouldn't they? One game with a driver problem is not driver issue. At least for me. My friends say no driver problems and I tend to believe them cause they know what they are doing.


----------



## Vayra86 (Feb 25, 2020)

ratirt said:


> yes I haven't had an issue. (I had but I was able to deal with it myself). It is not to say there is no issues because I haven't had any.
> not saying it may not exist but I've seen it. experienced it and I know how people are reacting. It is way better to blame hardware or a driver than incompetency of their own.
> 
> Why is it unreal? We have all used same drivers and I haven't seen or been told by my friends having any problems? If it were a driver issue the problems would happen on all the 5000 series cards wouldn't they? One game with a driver problem is not driver issue. At least for me. My friends say no driver problems and I tend to believe them cause they know what they are doing.



We used the same drivers... so that means all variables are accounted for? That is not sound logic in a PC environment... you know this. There are many, many configurations, OS versions, etc etc. And everything is in motion too, people upgrade and update whatever in whichever order. The conclusion there should be that a driver should be rock solid and capable of doing its work despite all of that stuff. Not that it 'might fail'... last I checked, vendors don't put a sticker on the box saying 'driver might fail'

One game with a driver problem, is one game with a driver problem that warrants a fix, either through the game or the driver. Simple. But that isn't the issue here, hell I've yet to see any ingame problems, all I see is general, game breaking issues that never even get you to a launcher.


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 25, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Its not entirely suprising for such a massive die and higher TDP card to have higher return rates. Lower total number and less options for binning any failures... Falls right in line with most other big chips over the years I think. Also remember the Space Invaders bad batch. That's definitely made a dent. And even today I do see that 2080ti topic pop up every so often, with a problem card. Much more so than any other Turing gpu except for Gigabyte's blocks of horror.



You're making the assumption that it's the actual chips which cause the problems but they are clearly not, not in the case of Navi nor RTX 2080ti. If that was the cause you'd see a consistent fail rate among all cards but clearly it depends on the brand and model. In other words the AIB partners do a horrid job, that's why I am amazed you can pay 1000$ and still get a product that is of no better quality than if you paid 300$.


----------



## ratirt (Feb 25, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> We used the same drivers... so that means all variables are accounted for? That is not sound logic in a PC environment... you know this. There are many, many configurations, OS versions, etc etc. And everything is in motion too, people upgrade and update whatever in whichever order. The conclusion there should be that a driver should be rock solid and capable of doing its work despite all of that stuff. Not that it 'might fail'... last I checked, vendors don't put a sticker on the box saying 'driver might fail'
> 
> One game with a driver problem, is one game with a driver problem that warrants a fix, either through the game or the driver. Simple. But that isn't the issue here, hell I've yet to see any ingame problems, all I see is general, game breaking issues that never even get you to a launcher.


Doesn't it sound logically ? Because for me it does tell something. Same driver different issues what is that tell you? I agree there are many configurations. That is obvious. What I'm trying to say you cannot generalize something to one variable where there's 100 of them and you have already admitted it. Would you agree? For me the driver is rock solid. Here's an example which I've come across few weeks ago.
You tell me what was the issue here.
Recently I stepped on the CS:GO bandwagon and I been playing for weeks now. With my Vega 64 I got everything sorted with the settings and played for a week. I never use automatic updates for anything so as you can presume the graphics driver auto-update is off. One day I got a CS:GO game update. (as you know, updates are being released systematically not just for graphics driver but for everything) Strange thing happened, while playing, my screen went black. Just like that. cold reset only solution. Started up the game again. Same thing but played a while longer maybe. Looked over system events. Said graphics driver crashed. Well tried tweaking but it didn't help so restored to my previous settings and called it a day. 3 days later another update for the game. Problem gone and I didn't reinstall any graphics driver nor updated the graphics driver or reinstalled the game. I simply played something else. Now, is this a driver issue? The win event log said graphics driver crash so it would seem so but it didn't say that the game caused the driver to crash and that was the problem which was gone after another update 3 days later. That is just one of many examples.

Since you mentioned that there is so many variables that may cause the application to crash or the driver, I'm really surprised that you have generalized it to only graphics driver issues. (it is simple to blame this only) Imagine that 99% of users would return their cards (and I hear about this in forums the black screen of death) because of this saying graphics driver problem. For me this is total bullshit and we know how many new games have updates weekly especially at their release. There can be driver issues. We have seen the updates recently. There's always something you can improve not necessarily issues but performance or add more features. I will look at the list of last 4 AMD driver updates to make sure what was fixed and what the drivers actually improve but I already know the answer. Non of us actually knows what happened with individual user's problem for their card to be returned blaming drivers and you already know why. He will say driver issue but was it really? Knowing how these users operate which I have mentioned earlier I really doubt it was a driver issue. It was an issue though. That is my logic take it from this what you will. I could go on about this and believe me the real graphics driver issue (if there was any major graphics driver problem) has been fixed few months ago.


----------



## btarunr (Feb 25, 2020)

Before the RTX 2080 Super in my machine, I had a reference RX 5700 XT. Before Adrenalin 2020, I think till 19.10, the drivers were so bad that I wanted to yank the card out and yeet it. All my problems disappeared with 19.10. Then in December I got this RTX 2080 Super, and retired the RX 5700 XT to another machine that I use at least 2-3 hours a day, including BFV. Surprisingly, no problems with Adrenalin 2020.


----------



## Vayra86 (Feb 25, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Doesn't it sound logically ? Because for me it does tell something. Same driver different issues what is that tell you? I agree there are many configurations. That is obvious. What I'm trying to say you cannot generalize something to one variable where there's 100 of them and you have already admitted it. Would you agree? For me the driver is rock solid. Here's an example which I've come across few weeks ago.
> You tell me what was the issue here.
> Recently I stepped on the CS:GO bandwagon and I been playing for weeks now. With my Vega 64 I got everything sorted with the settings and played for a week. I never use automatic updates for anything so as you can presume the graphics driver auto-update is off. One day I got a CS:GO game update. (as you know, updates are being released systematically not just for graphics driver but for everything) Strange thing happened, while playing, my screen went black. Just like that. cold reset only solution. Started up the game again. Same thing but played a while longer maybe. Looked over system events. Said graphics driver crashed. Well tried tweaking but it didn't help so restored to my previous settings and called it a day. 3 days later another update for the game. Problem gone and I didn't reinstall any graphics driver nor updated the graphics driver or reinstalled the game. I simply played something else. Now, is this a driver issue? The win event log said graphics driver crash so it would seem so but it didn't say that the game caused the driver to crash and that was the problem which was gone after another update 3 days later. That is just one of many examples.
> 
> Since you mentioned that there is so many variables that may cause the application to crash or the driver, I'm really surprised that you have generalized it to only graphics driver issues. (it is simple to blame this only) Imagine that 99% of users would return their cards (and I hear about this in forums the black screen of death) because of this saying graphics driver problem. For me this is total bullshit and we know how many new games have updates weekly especially at their release. There can be driver issues. We have seen the updates recently. There's always something you can improve not necessarily issues but performance or add more features. I will look at the list of last 4 AMD driver updates to make sure what was fixed and what the drivers actually improve but I already know the answer. Non of us actually knows what happened with individual user's problem for their card to be returned blaming drivers and you already know why. He will say driver issue but was it really? Knowing how these users operate which I have mentioned earlier I really doubt it was a driver issue. It was an issue though. That is my logic take it from this what you will. I could go on about this and believe me the real graphics driver issue (if there was any major graphics driver problem) has been fixed few months ago.



The whole god damn point of a good driver is that it can withstand all the movement in other areas of a system or its software. And also withstand differences in configuration, such as an overclock.

And in a general sense, AMD screws that up more often than it does get things right. And when they get it right, they add new features to kill stability once more. By comparison, if you get a new game release that somehow doesn't work properly on an Nvidia card, there is a Game Ready driver to fix that, and if that still has problems, there is a hotfix to follow up shortly after. Thát is how these things should be working, and with AMD they generally do not. That is also, I believe, what we as customers should be expecting from our GPU vendors, regardless of whether its red or green.

In the same way I expect game devs to do their job. If a game has a bug and its clearly not a GPU problem, I expect a patch. Yesterday, really. After all, how did that bug pass testing? What does it say about a company's internal processes. In my line of work... I should try bringing new stuff to a production environment untested for once... I can pack my bags a day after.

In the end its about the big data behind it. The numbers, not the individuals, and the trends, not the individual events. And the trend is clear.



Vya Domus said:


> You're making the assumption that it's the actual chips which cause the problems but they are clearly not, not in the case of Navi nor RTX 2080ti. If that was the cause you'd see a consistent fail rate among all cards but clearly it depends on the brand and model. In other words the AIB partners do a horrid job, that's why I am amazed you can pay 1000$ and still get a product that is of no better quality than if you paid 300$.



Absolutely true, but the balance is still tighter with a higher TDP chip and board. Its definitely easier, and also cheaper, to make a smaller GPU. The chip is never the problem but it still is a binned part of the GPU. And the lower down the stack you go the more options you have to bin correctly. AMD had a similar example with that 14Gbps VRAM thing. This is also a binning issue at its core, and a vague attempt to make it look like lower binned parts can perform as higher ones when in fact only a small portion of them is capable. Another example is the consistent story about undervolting AMD cards. Why do you think this is a thing? Its not because AMD likes to advertise higher TDPs... its because they cannot provide assurance of stability with lower TDPs. It tells us that their chips don't come out of the fab as consistently as they should, or could be.

Its a many headed beast I think, and every player is trying to cut cost. AIBs do that by placing weak components on boards and re-using old cooler designs. If it can pass a test and not burn down, its probably good enough...


----------



## Super XP (Feb 25, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Its not entirely suprising for such a massive die and higher TDP card to have higher return rates. Lower total number and less options for binning any failures... Falls right in line with most other big chips over the years I think. Also remember the Space Invaders bad batch. That's definitely made a dent. And even today I do see that 2080ti topic pop up every so often, with a problem card. Much more so than any other Turing gpu except for Gigabyte's blocks of horror.
> 
> What's much more surprising to me is that Navi's are at least double the return rate of similar performance Turing cards, while those Turing dies are much bigger, too. And that is even discounting the outliers which consist mainly of very weak AIB releases (10%?! holy shit... its a miracle Powercolor is still playing the game). Now thát is not unique to AMD. But those Navi returns are high across the board, or at least, notably higher than the competitor.
> 
> ...


I think you completely miss understood what I was trying to explain. And this isn't me experimenting, this is several comments from others off Reddit and forums. If you have overclocked UNSTABLE MEMORY or CPU, then install a Radeon Graphics Card, and you get Blue Screens, how is that the GPU's fault?? The suggestion was to default stock your CPU & RAM, install your graphics cards, only to Eliminate an ALREADY unstable CPU & RAM overclock, so they wouldn't blame the GPU, then once you have your GPU Drivers installed, go at it with the CPU & RAM OC if you choose.

Yes I'm a total geek & can assemble a gaming PC with my eyes closed if need be. lol

Oh and a FYI, there was plenty of Nvidia drivers that bricked or fried GPUs almost every year, some even pulled out of circulation by Nvidia.


----------



## ratirt (Feb 25, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> And also withstand differences in configuration, such as an overclock.


Each graphics card is different reacts differently with an OC not a driver problem. Still it will show up as a driver issue in the logs


Vayra86 said:


> The whole god damn point of a good driver is that it can withstand all the movement in other areas of a system or its software.


The whole system is complex, many variables as you said. Updates happen frequently. On one it works on the other it crashes. Even log will always say application crashed due to a driver issue. Not saying what caused the driver to crash. it may be not a driver issue but system has a problem. You can't expect a driver to fix system's bad config or a problem in the newly released driver.
Example: Look at the problems with the 1903 (i suppose it was that one for windows 10). (CPU usage on certain machines surges to 30%) Is that CPU's driver problem?



Vayra86 said:


> And in a general sense, AMD screws that up more often than it does get things right. And when they get it right, they add new features to kill stability once more. By comparison, if you get a new game release that somehow doesn't work properly on an Nvidia card, there is a Game Ready driver to fix that, and if that still has problems, there is a hotfix to follow up shortly after. Thát is how these things should be working, and with AMD they generally do not. That is also, I believe, what we as customers should be expecting from our GPU vendors, regardless of whether its red or green.


In general sense you want to say driver issue and that AMD screws that up because it is easy. You have no data about all the individual incidents and it is easier to blame AMD for driver issues.
Feature issues newly implemented in some games may occur (driver updates for AMD adrenaline) switch the feature off no driver issues. The feature needs tweaking because it is damn new and that is why.


Vayra86 said:


> In the same way I expect game devs to do their job. If a game has a bug and its clearly not a GPU problem, I expect a patch. Yesterday, really. After all, how did that bug pass testing? What does it say about a company's internal processes. In my line of work... I should try bringing new stuff to a production environment untested for once... I can pack my bags a day after.


Games problem. Windows event log will still say application crash due to a driver issue. Not a driver issue but still application caused the driver to crash.

I hope you see where I'm going with this. The actual driver issues are rare but it will always show up in the logs as a driver issue. Your perspective changes when you do actually realize, like you said, that there's 100 (or more) variables that can cause the issue but the driver will be the one to blame always. (or at least most cases). Graphics drivers are not for fixing other variables' wrong doings or fails but the driver is to display pictures.


Vayra86 said:


> In the end its about the big data behind it. The numbers, not the individuals, and the trends, not the individual events. And the trend is clear.


The trend is that 90% of users have no idea what they are doing and that trend my friend is growing. It is always easier to blame something else. So I disagree. Each individual incident is different. Numbers OK but the generalization of a problem is an issue here. Individual events reveal the actual problem. Not the number which are based on the cards returns because a user says it is a driver issues when they aren't actually. 
It is wrong to call a monster truck a car but it is totally wrong when you call it a suspension bride. You my friend call all the returns of cards due to a driver issues or the problems that users are having are due to driver issues and that is totally wrong.


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## Vayra86 (Feb 25, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Each graphics card is different reacts differently with an OC not a driver problem. Still it will show up as a driver issue in the logs
> 
> The whole system is complex, many variables as you said. Updates happen frequently. On one it works on the other it crashes. Even log will always say application crashed due to a driver issue. Not saying what caused the driver to crash. it may be not a driver issue but system has a problem. You can't expect a driver to fix system's bad config or a problem in the newly released driver.
> Example: Look at the problems with the 1903 (i suppose it was that one for windows 10). (CPU usage on certain machines surges to 30%) Is that CPU's driver problem?
> ...



There is an abstraction layer, or several, between driver/GPU and the rest of the system for all the data it gets. There goes your story... the GPU is supposed to feed off that, and not all other sorts of requirements in the system. In the end, thát is really what is happening here, and drivers are really an assortment of compatibility bits to cater for a wide range of situations. The quality of the driver is expressed like that: how compatible is it, to all those situations. How does it handle them in case of a problem. Will it CTD, will it give you a TDR (Timeout/Device removed; as is Nvidia's way of keeping the system operational with the GPU in safe mode), or will it already guide the user to recommended / restricted settings. Or will you get a BSOD with some random error string.

So yes, I get you, but I still disagree we should not blame the driver  The driver is the most fundamental piece of the puzzle here, for all software running on a GPU.

After that it is up to Nv/AMD to fight the battle with devs over who should change what. NOT my problem and once it becomes one, said company is on my shitlist. When Nvidia did not bring SLI support for Elder Scrolls Online back in the day, it was clear as day to me: this is the last SLI setup ever, go screw yourselves. Trust is hard to gain, and instantly lost. And in hindsight, that was a very good decision, Look where multi GPU is at today.

That is exercising customer power. Act on your findings and support quality. Being lenient on companies for screwing up only allows them to repeat it.



Super XP said:


> I think you completely miss understood what I was trying to explain. And this isn't me experimenting, this is several comments from others off Reddit and forums. If you have overclocked UNSTABLE MEMORY or CPU, then install a Radeon Graphics Card, and you get Blue Screens, how is that the GPU's fault?? The suggestion was to default stock your CPU & RAM, install your graphics cards, only to Eliminate an ALREADY unstable CPU & RAM overclock, so they wouldn't blame the GPU, then once you have your GPU Drivers installed, go at it with the CPU & RAM OC if you choose.
> 
> Yes I'm a total geek & can assemble a gaming PC with my eyes closed if need be. lol
> 
> Oh and a FYI, there was plenty of Nvidia drivers that bricked or fried GPUs almost every year, some even pulled out of circulation by Nvidia.



Point taken, and great, so let's cross that one off then. But it does seem odd that the insertion of a GPU is cause to make a reddit topic about BSODs due to your non GPU OC, is it not? But if that was the case, how was it even relevant to begin with? Its clear that such a thing is not a GPU issue, so why even use it as an example...

I mean yes, I fully understand the point you and @ratirt are making here that not all problems _originate from the GPU_. But in every single case, the truth comes to light and the trend is that the vendor is very, very slow and rather weak at providing fixes for the problems that DO originate from the GPU. And the fixes are also not always good ones. But the biggest question mark to me is why AMD is still using a waterfall principle for its releases of drivers. Big releases instead of cutting them up in many smaller ones, working iteratively... definitely something Nvidia approaches in a much more modern way.
In case you're like WTF is he on about...:








						What's the Difference? Agile vs Scrum vs Waterfall vs Kanban
					

What's the difference between Agile vs Scrum vs Waterfall vs Kanban? Here's everything you need to know about these project management methodologies.




					www.smartsheet.com
				




And ehm... you're gonna have to back up that  'almost every year' of bricked GPUs _due to drivers_ with some sources, because as far as I know, there has been one truly documented instance of it, maybe two.


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## ratirt (Feb 25, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> So yes, I get you, but I still disagree we should not blame the driver  The driver is the most fundamental piece of the puzzle here, for all software running on a GPU.


ohh I totally disagree with that. If the CPU is a brain of the computer and graphics is it's eyes then analogically to the software, windows is a brain and graphics driver is its eyes. i hope you understand what I'm trying to say.



Vayra86 said:


> There is an abstraction layer, or several, between driver/GPU and the rest of the system for all the data it gets. There goes your story... the GPU is supposed to feed off that, and not all other sorts of requirements in the system. In the end, thát is really what is happening here, and drivers are really an assortment of compatibility bits to cater for a wide range of situations. The quality of the driver is expressed like that: how compatible is it, to all those situations. How does it handle them in case of a problem. Will it CTD, will it give you a TDR (Timeout/Device removed; as is Nvidia's way of keeping the system operational with the GPU in safe mode), or will it already guide the user to recommended / restricted settings.


Drivers are for displaying pictures not fixing system or other problems. The GPU doesn't feed off any other resources but it is not responsible for it's proper functionality like you say it should giving as an example "solid driver" statement.


Vayra86 said:


> After that it is up to Nv/AMD to fight the battle with devs over who should change what. NOT my problem and once it becomes one, said company is on my shitlist. When Nvidia did not bring SLI support for Elder Scrolls Online back in the day, it was clear as day to me: this is the last SLI setup ever, go screw yourselves. Trust is hard to gain, and instantly lost.


Never said it is your problem. we may have to face the problems that come but saying that AMD and NV is responsible for fixing something only related to a driver (just like many other resources) is not adequate to what it really is. I gave you a CS:GO example. That is not a driver issue. As always there's people coding these variables or resources needed for the graphics driver to do what it is supposed to do. If they make a mistake the driver will crash but the application is to blame. NV has had also these "driver issues" related to application crashes. Don't own a NV graphics but it may not be driver issue but application that cased the driver to crash.
If you think I'm wrong. Try it yourself. OC the card beyond it's capabilities. The game will crash and look it up in the windows Event log. It will say driver issue but is it really a driver issue?


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## Vayra86 (Feb 25, 2020)

ratirt said:


> If you think I'm wrong. Try it yourself. OC the card beyond it's capabilities. The game will crash and look it up in the windows Event log. It will say driver issue but is it really a driver issue?



Dude, this goes way deeper than that, and yes, like I've acknowledged a half dozen times now, we get it, other things are reported as a driver crash. No shit. Let's stop going in circles 



ratirt said:


> ohh I totally disagree with that. If the CPU is a brain of the computer and graphics is it's eyes then analogically to the software, windows is a brain and graphics driver is its eyes. i hope you understand what I'm trying to say.



WHAT? This kinda underlines you have no idea what you're talking about. Windows is a brain and the graphics driver its eyes?! What are you smoking? Its just code being processed and handed over. Make mistakes and it crashes, simple enough.


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## ratirt (Feb 25, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Dude, this goes way deeper than that, and yes, like I've acknowledged a half dozen times now, we get it, other things are reported as a driver crash. No shit. Let's stop going in circles


Of course it does go deeper. An ocean of possibilities and things that can go wrong. I'm just trying to tell you about inexperienced users and what they will say about an event or a problem. it will always be a driver issue and we can see it clearly now. It is not necessarily that. That is all and the numbers you mentioned earlier are not putting this aspect into consideration when spitting out a value.


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## Darmok N Jalad (Feb 25, 2020)

bug said:


> Does it really matter what's the cause? At the end of the day a disappointed user is a disappointed user. Not only are they very likely to avoid the make for a few generations, but they'll also give you a good deal of badmouth (sp?).


Of course the cause matters. If AMD used a bad reference cooler, that is easy for a _non-biased_ customer to make a judgement on the issue—“it’s a fast card, but it’s way too loud.”  Having constant crashes and/or hardware failures is a much bigger issue—“this card just doesn’t work well at all.” It also leads to how experts can advise potential buyers—“should I buy a 5700?” The answer would either be “yes, but get a non-blower model,” or ”no, the card is unreliable.” We have discussions like this all the time where you may just need to avoid a particular brand. The discussion is about the reliability of this card, and so far my early conclusion is, just don’t get the blower version if noise is a concern.


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## EarthDog (Feb 25, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Of course it does go deeper. An ocean of possibilities and things that can go wrong. I'm just trying to tell you about inexperienced users and what they will say about an event or a problem. it will always be a driver issue and we can see it clearly now. It is not necessarily that. That is all and the numbers you mentioned earlier are not putting this aspect into consideration when spitting out a value.


Sure... however, BOTH SIDES have this 'issue' so in the end it is a net wash and, IMO, not relevant since both sides are afflicted with ID10T/PEBKAC problems.

Also, AMD's long list of fixes over the past several driver releases are CONFIRMED issues from AMD... not 'install at stock and rebuild the overclock' or 'must ddu to install these drivers'... etc (remind me why this has, for amd, become necessary??).


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## bug (Feb 25, 2020)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> Of course the cause matters. If AMD used a bad reference cooler, that is easy for a _non-biased_ customer to make a judgement on the issue—“it’s a fast card, but it’s way too loud.”  Having constant crashes and/or hardware failures is a much bigger issue—“this card just doesn’t work well at all.” It also leads to how experts can advise potential buyers—“should I buy a 5700?” The answer would either be “yes, but get a non-blower model,” or ”no, the card is unreliable.” We have discussions like this all the time where you may just need to avoid a particular brand. The discussion is about the reliability of this card, and so far my early conclusion is, just don’t get the blower version if noise is a concern.


This is a non-argument. Users are returning the cards. If you want to split hairs, go convince the users returning the cards. Convincing me won't make the disappointed users consider buying the same anytime soon.


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## sutyi (Feb 25, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Of course it does go deeper. An ocean of possibilities and things that can go wrong. I'm just trying to tell you about inexperienced users and what they will say about an event or a problem. it will always be a driver issue and we can see it clearly now. It is not necessarily that. That is all and the numbers you mentioned earlier are not putting this aspect into consideration when spitting out a value.



I'm running everything stock and had one black screen crash while I had Firefox and Chrome open sitting idle on the desktop. It basically hard locked the PC.

Just the other day I had to do a factory reset install on my driver package cause I had random stuttering pop-up out of nowhere in World of Tanks that I play regularly and that on the very same day.
Probably Chill settings had gone wonky as it only stuttered when there was mouse input... sadly cannot confirm as disabling or changing Chill setting did not fix the issue. For now I'm leaving everything on default values for now, bar the hotkey binds.

These issues in hadware terms are relatively wide spread. Covering fair bit of hardware variation including AMD & Intel CPUs, stock or OC seemingly does not matter. 
People not being able to use their graphics cards with software as mundane and common as a webbrowser with HW acceleration enabled, that being Chrome / Chromium with around 75% marketshare... it just does not fly man.

AMD / RTG  driver team should've went into hardcore stability & reliability patching mode right before or just after NAVI launched for the public and kept its focus on fixing stuff.
Instead we got a nice new shiny UI for their Control Panel which has it's own set of problems that might be the very cause for some of the issues that NAVI owners are facing.

Hoping we'll get a big fix driver package in the form of 20.3.1... and that would be even a bit late to be honest.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 25, 2020)

HD64G said:


> Opposite to turing GPUs artifacting or dying, most Navi RMAs should be related to bad drivers and users not knowing how to proper clean uninstall-install them. My 5c.



Yup not faulty hardware, cough 970s/80s dying recently...



Darmok N Jalad said:


> Of course the cause matters. If AMD used a bad reference cooler, that is easy for a _non-biased_ customer to make a judgement on the issue—“it’s a fast card, but it’s way too loud.”  Having constant crashes and/or hardware failures is a much bigger issue—“this card just doesn’t work well at all.” It also leads to how experts can advise potential buyers—“should I buy a 5700?” The answer would either be “yes, but get a non-blower model,” or ”no, the card is unreliable.” We have discussions like this all the time where you may just need to avoid a particular brand. The discussion is about the reliability of this card, and so far my early conclusion is, just don’t get the blower version if noise is a concern.



Never had a problem with reference cards...


----------



## king of swag187 (Feb 25, 2020)

I had a friend that got a 2060 for $167 and he states that his experience and frame-rates are better because he can actually run the games he wants to play, he also missed the MSI OSD.


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

I just did. Tired of the BS. Random reboots? Wtf?
AMD basically uploading a RAT/trojan bundled with the drivers you can't unbundle? What kinda crap is that?
The drivers don't even work properly and they add invasive crap on top of it? This is fail.
Oh, you can get rid of the excess, but then you have no video options as well.
No idea where to go from here. Instinct says wait.
:Knock on wood: I will not buy or download any more AMD products or drivers that are about being all up in your Facebook and social media and have popups in the middle of your game n stuff.
That's ridiculous.
Yeah, I'm mad. 
The hardware is fine, the software is crap piled on top of crap.
AMD GPU drivers are like chicken poop. Their bundled BS is like the white stuff on top of chicken poop.
What's that white stuff on top of chicken poop? Chicken poop.


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## Darmok N Jalad (Feb 25, 2020)

bug said:


> This is a non-argument. Users are returning the cards. If you want to split hairs, go convince the users returning the cards. Convincing me won't make the disappointed users consider buying the same anytime soon.


Sorry to offend you. I’m merely working from my own experience, which I guess doesn’t carry much weight with you. Personally, I like the data point of the return reason. It’s just more facts to help inform my opinion.


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## Assimilator (Feb 25, 2020)

Super XP said:


> Oh and a FYI, there was plenty of Nvidia drivers that bricked or fried GPUs almost every year, some even pulled out of circulation by Nvidia.



Lies.



ratirt said:


> ohh I totally disagree with that. If the CPU is a brain of the computer and graphics is it's eyes then analogically to the software, windows is a brain and graphics driver is its eyes. i hope you understand what I'm trying to say.



I understand that you have no idea what you're talking about.



eidairaman1 said:


> Yup not faulty hardware, cough 970s/80s dying recently...



Hey look whataboutism.


----------



## efikkan (Feb 25, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> In the same way I expect game devs to do their job. If a game has a bug and its clearly not a GPU problem, I expect a patch. Yesterday, really. After all, how did that bug pass testing? What does it say about a company's internal processes. In my line of work... I should try bringing new stuff to a production environment untested for once... I can pack my bags a day after.


I agree to the point where game bugs are the game devs' responsibility, and drivers should not do any workarounds at all.
But it is however the driver's responsibility to handle "misbehaving" applications, to the extent that it doesn't crash the driver and the OS. And in this regard there is a huge difference in driver quality between AMD and Nvidia.


----------



## ratirt (Feb 26, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> I understand that you have no idea what you're talking about


It's just an example to show something and expand on a thought to add to the conversation. Chillax.


sutyi said:


> I'm running everything stock and had one black screen crash while I had Firefox and Chrome open sitting idle on the desktop. It basically hard locked the PC.
> 
> Just the other day I had to do a factory reset install on my driver package cause I had random stuttering pop-up out of nowhere in World of Tanks that I play regularly and that on the very same day.
> Probably Chill settings had gone wonky as it only stuttered when there was mouse input... sadly cannot confirm as disabling or changing Chill setting did not fix the issue. For now I'm leaving everything on default values for now, bar the hotkey binds.
> ...


Well I don't want to repeat myself but I had a black screen. It was not because of the driver but the driver crashed because of the application. 3 days later app update problem gone and nothing changed with my graphics set up nor driver. My friends have the 5000 series never had any problems.
Not sure what wide spread hardware issues you are talking about.
There is not big fix. There's features adjustments AMD put into the driver and maybe certain games get some other stuff done but that is all.
The GCN and RDNA are backwards compatible. It has been said hundreds of times. Yet you still wait for a big driver fix.


efikkan said:


> I agree to the point where game bugs are the game devs' responsibility, and drivers should not do any workarounds at all.
> But it is however the driver's responsibility to handle "misbehaving" applications, to the extent that it doesn't crash the driver and the OS. And in this regard there is a huge difference in driver quality between AMD and Nvidia.


You say that driver should handle misbehaving apps so it wont crash? The app is crashing the driver, why it is the drivers responsibility to handle the application's abnormal behavior? 
I disagree with that. 
Why driver should handle that? Graphics card and the driver are responsible for picture on your screen, rendering etc. Nothing more aside that.
Don't want to mention again but NV users have also experienced black screens and yet NV driver is OK. So I'm not sure what you guys are after. 
So if Windows API like DirectX crashes the driver because it is broken the graphics card should handle the misbehaving API and fix it or workaround it? 
There is a difference because the NV and AMD got different cards and maybe they do stuff differently. I totally disagree with what you said and I can see that a lot of you guys here, expect the unexpected from the graphics drivers no matter which company it comes from.


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## sutyi (Feb 26, 2020)

ratirt said:


> My friends have the 5000 series never had any problems.



Interesting... then 95% of NAVI owners that visit the hungarian hardware forum I tend to had some sort of problem, and all of them say that 19.12.1 was the best driver package for them. Weird eh?



ratirt said:


> Not sure what wide spread hardware issues you are talking about.



I meant that the very same problems are present in a lot of systems, with a lots of hardware variation. Effectively pointing to the one common denominator AMD's driver package... or worse case that there are a lot of defective cards that seemingly work just fine in games but can not handle swapping tabs in Chrome...



ratirt said:


> There is not big fix. There's features adjustments AMD put into the driver and maybe certain games get some other stuff done but that is all.
> The GCN and RDNA are backwards compatible. It has been said hundreds of times. Yet you still wait for a big driver fix.



We are not talking about game optimization (apart from a stability stand point) we are talking about general stability here.

If they can not get their driver to work properly on regular users / gamers setup that God forbid might have stuff like a webbrowser, Discord, Steam or otherlauncher with their own HW accelerated GUIs and their own overlays running in the background or at the same time then what are we really on about?

GCN and RDNA backwards compatible? GPUs mostly run standardized code that goes trough a shadercompiler usually at the driver level at some point so most APIs are hardware agnostic.


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## mbeeston (Feb 26, 2020)

this thread makes me not want to use nvidia ever again, especially after half the 416 drivers manage to shut my usb ports / software power off of and made me have to unplug my computer to reboot it if i left it on over night more then 1 day.
i have had less driver problems with the last 6 years of amd cards then the 2 years with this 1070ti.


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## johnny-r (Feb 26, 2020)

There were some IPS/ G-Sync issues related to black screen in games, coming and going (not crashing although you might think it crashed ), when you reset (enable/disable) the IPS / G-sync option and set the desired refresh rate it is sorted, there were also reports of power savings settings that could cause this and not just related to AMD and Nvidia  drivers.


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## ratirt (Feb 26, 2020)

sutyi said:


> Interesting... then 95% of NAVI owners that visit the hungarian hardware forum I tend to had some sort of problem, and all of them say that 19.12.1 was the best driver package for them. Weird eh?


You know. I've said about the users problems. They can say that the driver version xx.xx is better than yy.yy but they do not do any tests they just see if it is working or not. What caused the driver to crash is another story. I've mentioned that earlier. Do a test. OC your card so that you will know it will crash the game and look into the Windows event log. IT will say the app has crashed due to the driver. It is always blaming the driver despite it may not have been its fault. That's all I'm saying. 95% can say that but they do not say what is the problem, they don't test it nor give any information aside 9.12.1 is the best. You have to consider that AMD in the 9.12.2 and 9.12.3 added shit load of features which may impact stability. I've got the latest and have no problems although I got Vega64. My friends have the latest with 5000 series and they sometimes need to tweak the settings and it works. 


sutyi said:


> I meant that the very same problems are present in a lot of systems, with a lots of hardware variation. Effectively pointing to the one common denominator AMD's driver package... or worse case that there are a lot of defective cards that seemingly work just fine in games but can not handle swapping tabs in Chrome...


Sure but also in a lot of systems the problems are not existent. That is a good point. The variation of the systems, settings, games people play and yet driver is to blame? My friends don't have the problem. They use the same driver so why on other systems the problems exists? Is it because of the driver? It works for others? Maybe the users have no idea what settings they have put in or how they have tweaked the card? I's all in the earlier posts don't want to repeat myself. You all say so many system so many variations, user settings may also be different but the driver is to blame.
The driver is fine. It works but there are many new features. Nvidia users suffer the same thing. It has been reported many times, Black screens, computer shutdowns all very similar symptoms.


sutyi said:


> We are not talking about game optimization (apart from a stability stand point) we are talking about general stability here.
> 
> If they can not get their driver to work properly on regular users / gamers setup that God forbid might have stuff like a webbrowser, Discord, Steam or otherlauncher with their own HW accelerated GUIs and their own overlays running in the background or at the same time then what are we really on about?



What is this stability issue for you. Some have it some don't and they use the same driver. It is like you want the driver to be bad and you give no insight to this. It is just bad because 95% of users said so. 90% of this 95% you mentioned doesn't know a lot about graphics and settings. 
I mentioned CS:GO I played and encounter a problem. Read about it in this thread and tell me if the driver is to blame. No it isn't the drivers problem in most cases but the driver will always show up as a problem even there is so many other things casing the failure and as you mentioned so many systems and settings and different users. 



sutyi said:


> GCN and RDNA backwards compatible? GPUs mostly run standardized code that goes trough a shadercompiler usually at the driver level at some point so most APIs are hardware agnostic.


The driver is backwards compatible and it has been said many times. Not sure where you are going with this case to me it is irrelevant to what we are talking about here.
The graphics driver is a device driver enabling all other resources to speak to it. It is like a communication channel between other computer resources. API's talk to the hardware via device driver in this case graphics driver. That is all.


----------



## bug (Feb 26, 2020)

Darmok N Jalad said:


> Sorry to offend you. I’m merely working from my own experience, which I guess doesn’t carry much weight with you. Personally, I like the data point of the return reason. It’s just more facts to help inform my opinion.


I wasn't offended.
But personal experience does not apply here, we're not talking 50% return rates. We're probably looking at well under 5%, with many (including reviewers) running the cards with no issue. The problem is, when you sell 1mn cards, a problem with 1% of them will still bite 10,000 buyers. Whether the issue is real or perceived, it needs to be addressed.


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## sutyi (Feb 26, 2020)

ratirt said:


> My friends have the latest with 5000 series and they sometimes need to tweak the settings and it works.



Users shouldn't tweak anything over the default settings to get anything to work properly.
If they have to tweak anything to get it to work, then they have issues with the current driver packages and are just doing workarounds.



ratirt said:


> Is it because of the driver? It works for others? Maybe the users have no idea what settings they have put in or how they have tweaked the card?



Again... users shouldn't tweak anything out of the box. Or trouble shoot their previously problem free systems, and search for workarounds on forums and reddits posts to get their freshly purchased graphics card to do its job problem free. All the while the very same hardware and software environment works without problems with an nVIDIA GPU.



ratirt said:


> The driver is backwards compatible and it has been said many times.



Polaris, Vega and Navi have their own separate drivers it's just packaged into a single package. Just as with nVIDIA having support for Maxwell, Pascal and Turing in the same package.


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## ratirt (Feb 26, 2020)

sutyi said:


> Users shouldn't tweak anything over the default settings to get anything to work properly.
> If they have to tweak anything to get it to work, then they have issues with the current driver packages and are just doing workarounds.


They choose to do it. Like use AMD latest feature for FPS lock or image sharpening on/off. If they want they can do it. So strongly disagree. 
If you OC stuff you do it on your own. It may work or may not. 



sutyi said:


> Again... users shouldn't tweak anything out of the box. Or trouble shoot their previously problem free systems, and search for workarounds on forums and reddits posts to get their freshly purchased graphics card to do its job problem free. All the while the very same hardware and software environment works without problems with an nVIDIA GPU.


You are missing the point totally. They OC the card or flash Bios and start complaining about the driver crashes. You dont tweak the driver dummy. You tweak the features. Like fan speed since you have closed case you want more fan speed. You can OC the card (hardware) not the driver. 



sutyi said:


> Polaris, Vega and Navi have their own separate drivers it's just packaged into a single package. Just as with nVIDIA having support for Maxwell, Pascal and Turing in the same package.


You don't get it do you. It is like this. The 2600k Intel CPU is compatible with 9900K. They are both x86 arch. Right? 
RDNA and GCN is like that. Same as NV  graphics cards. The difference is tweaks, instructions etc. They are compatible and the driver is compatible with one another. 


Here is something you should read.
The black screen issues called a driver issue by many (or even most people here) due to lots of returns of the 5000 series graphics. The numbers (some say are stunning) numbers for the returns with the Black Screen Issue symptom.

Here, black screen issue with 2060 Super
link https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/rtx-2060-black-screen-fan-speed-100.3480799/
some fix https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/898055-black-screen-gpu-fans-at-full-speed-crash-fixed/
Fix thermal paste and pads replacement. Other, decrees OC of the card. That is a real graphics driver problem right? 

Another black screen 2080. Black screen at the start and another joins in with black screen in games. 


			https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/geforce-graphics-cards/5/284697/black-screen-rtx-2080-start-pc/
		

Problem was solved with one by decreasing CPU OC. weird huh? CPU couldn't work it up with the 2080 when OC'ed to 4.9 (7700K) causing black screen.

Tried to find the links quick. 

The fun part is non of these is related to a driver issue. There is thousands of black screen problems and non is related to a graphics driver but the issue does cause the graphics driver to crash but not always 
Fun part also, you can have a black screen but the driver still works fine. There's just nothing in the screen. 
The number claim of Mr. Vayra is actually correct. (BTW NV has that problems as well and it is not a driver issue) Black screens over and over but it does not mean it's because of the graphics driver. I can tell you now there is no driver issues. The one thing that we can say about this number is, there is a black screen issue reported by many people. They didn't perform any checks or tests. They just blame the driver. Or maybe they have changed something without knowing what it is yet for them DRIVER ISSUE. Is it a graphics driver problem? Not really since the driver works on a different computer perfectly but it is easier to blame it. It is damn obvious, if a driver works with one card perfectly but it doesn't on the other computer with same card model it is not the driver issue. The problem is somewhere else. For instance black screen with a RTX 2070 during a game randomly. Solution. re-seated the power connector on the graphics cause it was loosened. No problems after. 

Anyway. I disagree with you guys sorry.


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## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

ratirt said:


> choose to do it. Like use AMD latest feature for FPS lock or image sharpening on/off. If they want they can do it. So strongly disagree.
> If you OC stuff you do it on your own. It may work or may not.


You seem to have missed his point...

Sure, if I want to turn features on and off etc, that is normal. What ISN'T normal is being forced to change anything outside of default for the card to function properly.

Regardless if it is hardware or software, there is some kind of issue with Navi cards for more users than is typical.

Also note, I can google anything and find problems with everything. The point here is amd has, over the past several months, had more issues than nvidia cards. You can disagree with that, however that would be wrong.


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## ratirt (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> You seem to have missed his point...
> 
> Sure, if I want to turn features on and off etc, that is normal. What ISN'T normal is being forced to change anything outside of default for the card to function properly.
> 
> ...


I didn't miss anything. I know exactly what he is saying but steering away from the subject we are talking about here is not the way to go.
I see you are the stubborn one. This links are not to tell you there's a problem with NV cards or AMD cards but it shows that the issues with the black screen (which all the fuss is about here) are not caused by the graphics driver which all of the claims are going for since there is other issues that may cause it.
PS4 uses AMD hardware (GCN). There are black screens occasionally. The fix for this has never been due to a graphics driver, because it would have been stupid to even suggest such a thing.
PS5 will be also based on the AMD hardware and there will be black screens for sure but non would be due to a graphics driver. The problem is always elsewhere. What do you think. How different the PS4 or upcoming PS5 graphics driver would be with the PC? It is basically the same thing. The problem here is that PC give more tweaking not just to the graphics but to everything and that can be troublesome especially for inexperienced person reading something on forums about overclocking and Bios flashing etc.

I'm not disagreeing they have issues but saying it is because of the driver is simply stupid. Think about it that way 10% (not sure if this is the right value but I'm sure you can check) of the users have encountered black screens form either NV and AMD. Now think about the numbers of how many cards NV has sold and how many AMD and think which one is more severe in numbers.
The drivers are fine but the users tend to blow things out of proportion blaming driver for their actions because it is easy. We don't know what the issue was when they have upgraded their PC's or buy new and what they did to hardware counterparts.
Wonder, what is the number of this failed cards from AMD and which model is actually the worst in comparison. I bet it is the 5700 one. If You have info please share I'd like to read it.


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## Xzibit (Feb 26, 2020)

Well Hardware Unboxed just speculated in their latest Q&A that some of the people in their poll that were having issues due to timing and OC their CPU.

1) Make an open poll not verifying Vote to hardware
2) Speculate on a good portion of those unverified people that are having issues.


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## ratirt (Feb 26, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> Well Hardware Unboxed just said in their latest Q&A half of the people in their poll that were having issues were due to OC their CPU.
> 
> 
> 1) Make an open poll not verifying Vote to hardware
> 2) Speculate on a good portion of those unverified people that are having issues.


It can be also due to OC the graphics, or flashing it with a different Bios. That is why I have mentioned 5700 in my last post. 
Not to mention other hardware failures or strange behavior of WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model). The list goes on. 
BTW. One fix I have performed myself due to black screen, when changing my graphics was not only DDU and install new driver but also reinstalling DX12. 

CPU OC is a severe issue when swapping cards. With one it works. You get faster card and the CPU OC is causing black screen. Pretty common.


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## Xzibit (Feb 26, 2020)

Well I find it entertaining since they could never replicate the issues people said they were having. They let a unverified twitter poll sway they're thinking. Due to the poll they changed their recommendation.

The video about the poll. Steve even points out his & Tims machines along with his kids never seen issue.


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## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

ratirt said:


> This links are not to tell you there's a problem with NV cards or AMD cards but it shows that the issues with the black screen (which all the fuss is about here) are not caused by the graphics driver which all of the claims are going for since there is other issues that may cause it.


Those links do not confirm anything, really. People dont know black screens can happen for a slew of reasons?? The difference here is AMD acknowledged an issue (which means there is one).

Saying its because of the driver is a fact...again, amd acknowledged this and trying to fix it! Along with a slew of other CONFIRMED BY AMD issues. 

I'm stubborn, lolol


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## ratirt (Feb 26, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> Well I find it entertaining since they could never replicate the issues people were having. They let a unverified twitter poll sway they're thinking. Due to the poll they changed their recommendation.
> 
> The video about the poll. Steve even points out his & Tims machines along with his kids never seen issue.


Of course. Haven't you noticed in what society we are living now and what media is doing? If you say something untrue or even stupid but you find people to follow this nonsense, others will start thinking, So many people say it is true so it must be true. Does something become true or is true because a lot of people start claiming it is especially without giving any arguments? Then you ask for evidence or argument and you will be called names and you shut up. Simple right?



EarthDog said:


> Those links do not confirm anything, really. People dont know black screens can happen for a slew of reasons?? The difference here is AMD acknowledged an issue (which means there is one).
> 
> Saying its because of the driver is a fact...again, amd acknowledged this and trying to fix it!
> 
> I'm stubborn, lolol


Do you know when AMD acknowledge this and if you could share some source? I'd be glad to expand my knowledge.
Cause honestly I haven't seen any AMD article about it only tech pages claiming there is a driver issue.

Here is extremetech article fragment. AMD response to the black screen issue.




I don't see anything about AMD admitting driver issue here. Maybe you understand that differently.


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## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

Look at the fix list (from navi release,  but pretty sure I saw it after adrenaline 2020)...and I think black screen was one of them. 

That snip shows they heard about the black screens and looking into it....


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## freeagent (Feb 26, 2020)

mbeeston said:


> this thread makes me not want to use nvidia ever again, especially after half the 416 drivers manage to shut my usb ports / software power off of and made me have to unplug my computer to reboot it if i left it on over night more then 1 day.
> i have had less driver problems with the last 6 years of amd cards then the 2 years with this 1070ti.



I only have used nvidia for the last decade at least, I haven’t had those issues.


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## HenrySomeone (Feb 26, 2020)

I really hope Intel properly steps up with their GPUs in the next couple years because Radeons quite frankly don't deserve to exist anymore...


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## ratirt (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Look at the fix list (from navi release,  but pretty sure I saw it after adrenaline 2020)...and I think black screen was one of them.
> 
> That snip shows they heard about the black screens and looking into it....


Nope. 


			https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-1-1
		


The known issues are listed and there is your black screen issue and a workaround. AMD is still investigating the black screen issue which they can't ignore due to complaints but it is doesn't say driver related. It is just a known work around which is mentioned there.


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## bug (Feb 26, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I don't see anything about AMD admitting driver issue here. Maybe you understand that differently.


That's the gist of it, they admit they are following "the black screen and other issues", but months later they still don't know where it lies (hence they don't say anything about a driver issue).



HenrySomeone said:


> I really hope Intel properly steps up with their GPUs in the next couple years because Radeons quite frankly don't deserve to exist anymore...


I don't feel we have enough competitors to wish any of them left the scene.
I want more pressure on the mid-range segment, because, while we can see 2080Ti putting out pretty numbers, the reality is if you don't fork out $400-500, chances are your gaming will be choppy even at FHD in some titles.


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## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Nope.
> 
> 
> https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-1-1
> ...


It doesnt say it isnt either...there is no denial or admitting anything. Useless.

(I inferred to) Check all drivers since navi release, but especially A2020 and newer. Not just one driver. 

EDIT: WTH? What do you mean nope? There is a black screen issue listed as a problem (and a POTENTIAL workaround)!!! It's right there!! That is admitting there is an issue and they do not have a fix. It is a KNOWN ISSUE.



> Some Radeon RX 5700 series graphics users may intermittently experience a black screen while gaming or on desktop. A potential temporary workaround is disabling hardware acceleration in applications running in the background such as web browsers or Discord.[/quote[



EDIT2: In 20.1.3 they fixed SOME of the black screen issues but others still exist. If it isn't the driver, how did they fix it with a driver update????????????? Let's use our head a bit, please! 


			https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-1-3
		




> Fixed Issues
> 
> An intermittent black screen or loss of display may occur when performing parallel actions such as web browsing, gaming or watching video.
> An intermittent black screen or loss of display may occur when the system is left idle at desktop.





> Known Issues
> 
> Grand Theft Auto™ 5 may experience a system hang or black screen at launch, when opening Radeon Overlay while in game, or after performing a task switch while in game.
> Some Radeon RX 5700 series graphics users may intermittently experience a black screen while gaming or on desktop. A potential temporary workaround is disabling hardware acceleration in applications running in the background such as web browsers or Discord.


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## ratirt (Feb 26, 2020)

bug said:


> That's the gist of it, they admit they are following "the black screen and other issues", but months later they still don't know where it lies (hence they don't say anything about a driver issue).


I don't think that is the gist. You can't fix something which is not yours to fix but yet you can't ignore the customers' complaints due to bad PR.


EarthDog said:


> It doesnt say it isnt either...there is no denial or admitting anything. Useless.
> 
> I also said to check all drivers since navi release, but especially A2020 and newer. Not just one driver


You started this so find where AMD says that it is a driver issue.
Please find and give me a link to the driver because I didn't find it.


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## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I don't think that is the gist. You can't fix something which is not yours to fix but yet you can't ignore the customers' complaints due to bad PR.
> 
> You started this so find where AMD says that it is a driver issue.
> Please find and give me a link to the driver because I didn't find it.


Look at my edit....

If a driver has fixed SOME of the intermittent black screen issues, how is it NOT the driver (causing at least SOME of the issue)? What more are you looking for here????!!!!!!


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## bug (Feb 26, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I don't think that is the gist. You can't fix something which is not yours to fix but yet you can't ignore the customers' complaints due to bad PR.


You can investigate and say where the problem lies, if that's the case.
Though it's curious you say the problem isn't AMD's when AMD dares not say that.


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## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

bug said:


> Though it's curious you say the problem isn't AMD's when AMD dares not say that.


...and AMD fixed SOME of the black screen issues with an updated driver...but 'it isn't an AMD driver issue'...


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## bug (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Look at my edit....
> 
> If a driver has fixed SOME of the intermittent black screen issues, how is it NOT the driver (causing at least SOME of the issue)? What more are you looking for here????!!!!!!


Hey, leave his preciousss alone!


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## efikkan (Feb 26, 2020)

ratirt said:


> efikkan said:
> 
> 
> > I agree to the point where game bugs are the game devs' responsibility, and drivers should not do any workarounds at all.
> ...


I suggest you read my post again.
If an application does something bad, it's fair that the application crashes, but the driver should remain stable.

What users consider tolerable is subjective, but to me it's really not acceptable that something with user level privileges can crash systems like this.



ratirt said:


> There is not big fix. There's features adjustments AMD put into the driver and maybe certain games get some other stuff done but that is all.
> 
> The GCN and RDNA are backwards compatible. It has been said hundreds of times. Yet you still wait for a big driver fix.


There will be no "Navi driver fix", but the driver issues that has plagued AMD for years have to be resolved with a big fix. Underlying problems like this can't be solved with patchwork and workarounds. They need to identify the problematic parts and rewrite them completely. Until then this loop will continue; AMD launches a new card -> users complain about issues -> claims that drivers will mature (but they don't) -> repeat.


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## bug (Feb 26, 2020)

efikkan said:


> I suggest you read my post again.
> If an application does something bad, it's fair that the application crashes, but the driver should remain stable.
> 
> What users consider tolerable is subjective, but to me it's really not acceptable that something with user level privileges can crash systems like this.


Don't go for the red herring, he has no proof the fault lies with (any) applications


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## ratirt (Feb 27, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> It doesnt say it isnt either...there is no denial or admitting anything. Useless.
> 
> (I inferred to) Check all drivers since navi release, but especially A2020 and newer. Not just one driver.
> 
> ...


You were right. Thanks for sharing the knowledge and proving I was wrong 


bug said:


> Don't go for the red herring, he has no proof the fault lies with (any) applications


If you have nothing to contribute to the conversation we are having then zip your hole and stop offending people.


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## Decryptor009 (May 21, 2020)

Honestly, i have the fastest performing 5700-XT and feel sort of ripped off, the card is not tweakable to any reliable degree because hotspot temps will drop your OC anyway, it dumps a SHIT LOAD of heat in the room, drivers are very finnicky and black screens come and go...

Oh i also seem to have a magical pig version of the 5700-XT Aorus edition as it hit's 82c+ no matter which bios you use and the fans do not compensate for it either.
I have taken the card apart, at first i thought i was seeing a 7c drop when changing thermal paste, i was just using a fixed fan speed by mistake, back to original bios fan mode and it runs at 82+c stock in a case with good airflow.

LOL


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## Chrispy_ (May 21, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Honestly, i have the fastest performing 5700-XT and feel sort of ripped off, the card is not tweakable to any reliable degree because hotspot temps will drop your OC anyway, it dumps a SHIT LOAD of heat in the room, drivers are very finnicky and black screens come and go...
> 
> Oh i also seem to have a magical pig version of the 5700-XT Aorus edition as it hit's 82c+ no matter which bios you use and the fans do not compensate for it either.
> I have taken the card apart, at first i thought i was seeing a 7c drop when changing thermal paste, i was just using a fixed fan speed by mistake, back to original bios fan mode and it runs at 82+c stock in a case with good airflow.
> ...


Why have you not RMA'd your card yet? It was abundantly clear from the previous thread (which was locked because of the low-quality ranting) that you have a defective card.

RMA it.


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## Vayra86 (May 21, 2020)

efikkan said:


> There will be no "Navi driver fix", but the driver issues that has plagued AMD for years have to be resolved with a big fix. Underlying problems like this can't be solved with patchwork and workarounds. They need to identify the problematic parts and rewrite them completely. Until then this loop will continue; AMD launches a new card -> users complain about issues -> claims that drivers will mature (but they don't) -> repeat.



I've predicted this very thing to happen when AMD diversified the line up with multiple radically different chips, starting from Polaris. In hindsight we can conclude Polaris-Vega is a contributor to the problems Navi has today. And even still, Navi is also not 'finished'. AMD has iterated on a design that had fundamental problems. First with efficiency > bandaid jump to HBM to save the Fury X > two sets of drivers. Then came Polaris > late to market delta compression and still sub par performance, efficiency problem was back with GDDR5, cards capped at lower mid range perf. The fix to thát, was Vega... which was really just Fury X in a new tuxedo and similarly stalled in production and margin issues. But... yet another die to support.

Then came Navi... yet another die to support. Another 'overhaul' instead of iterating upon tried and tested technology. AMD keeps hitting the reset button, except they forget to actually do it differently this time. They just log back in to the same crappy session they can't seem to get out of. And its not like they haven't had the time by now. But maybe... MAYBE... RDNA2 is the real reset or RDNA was it... So far, however, it doesn't look that way.

Meanwhile, Nvidia is refining their CUDA arch and just keeps stacking better stuff on top of it, constantly tweaking the balance to whatever is optimal at the time of release. Their steady approach, of course along with their market share, has cultivated a very stable GPU base. Yes, there are some launch issues every gen, but they get ironed out pretty quickly, most of the time (some things are not...but they don't usually hit large numbers of users) and the overall view is that they're in control. AMD seems stuck between a rock and a hard place in that sense. 'We can't fix it'...they don't say it out loud, but realistically, that is what the results show us.


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## 95Viper (May 21, 2020)

Alrighty, no more name calling.
Have a civil discussion.
No off topic posting.
If you have a problem report it.
Do Not Turn This Thread into another name calling rant fest.

Thanks, again.
And, Have a Wonderful Day


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## Decryptor009 (May 21, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Why have you not RMA'd your card yet? It was abundantly clear from the previous thread (which was locked because of the low-quality ranting) that you have a defective card.
> 
> RMA it.



I fixed mine...

AMD drivers only let the cards fan max out at 30% no matter what, in performance tuning you can set the max much much higher, which obviously makes the card.. far louder.

So back to the topic, yes drivers are still garbage.


I followed this guys work: 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/fftuy5


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## Hardcore Games (May 22, 2020)

I will open the bidding on any unwanted cards at 99 cents


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## Icon Charlie (May 22, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> I fixed mine...
> 
> AMD drivers only let the cards fan max out at 30% no matter what, in performance tuning you can set the max much much higher, which obviously makes the card.. far louder.
> 
> ...



Following your link, one of the people on Reddit was having issues with his card. He diagnosed his problem to his computer case.  Now this has always been a bone of contention with me.  I am not a fan of the current case trends that has been going on for the past 4+ years.  The added cost for the bling bling as well as air flow issues plus the additional costs to correct those Air flow issues IMHO has been swept under the rug. 

I'm retired (system builder) but I still have a small but loyal customer base (10 to 20 years). I help them out to try to keep costs down and for the most part they are not the stereo typical Millennial/Zoomer Crowd.  Just people that want their computer to run as long as possible before making another purchase.

I tell my clients you need a case (and the right fans) that will get all of the warm air out as quickly as possible.  As an example I own 3 Corsair Carbide 500R and a Corsair Carbide400R and that is the style of case I refer my clients too.  I also own a 900HAF.  You want quiet then go with the current trends and pay the additional price for being quiet.   You want a work horse and longevity to your computer components you go with the the style I referred too.     

My current Ryzen System is hotter than my previous Ryzen 1800X/X370 setup.  Both using the same case and same video card. 
I can see why that person posting on Reddit was having issues with his video card.   Every system build is different and every component affects the whole of that system build.      

You have to look at everything when you make an assessment. Including the case being used. It is always good to have a test bench on hand for those purposes.  

It has been 5 months with the Visiontek 5700 reference card and am quite satisfied with the card for the price I paid for.  I am able to keep the temps down to the 64c (junction temp) range at 27c room temps.  My room gets the sun on 3 sides so nice in the winter but god awful hot in the summer.  I have had the card spike to 75c but my room as at 33+c when that happened.  Again acceptable levels. Under volting and the right fan speed is what is keeping this card from burning out. Noise level is acceptable to me as I run the fans at 48%. Total noise level on this style of case is around 42 to 44dbs.  Again I'm fine with that as the noise to my Alen hepa filter nearby makes louder noise than my Comp.  I play 2 to 4 hours of OverWatch on a 1440p monitor on a high setting. 160+fps.  When just viewing videos the temps drop  between 42 and 47c.  Junction temps.

I'm just giving out some info on what I am experiencing now.  I do have a XFX 5700XT and that is a dog of a video card. 

I got some ideas on what I am going to do with this card and if time allows I'll post my findings.


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## Regeneration (May 22, 2020)

Damn, missed today's flame war. 

High-end graphics cards (300w) need proper cooling both ON and AROUND. Don't be suprised if it hits 100c if you use a cheap mid-tower case.

I'm very happy with Corsair Obsidian 750D Air Flow Edition Full-Tower. OCed GTX 1070 hits 60c with stock coolers at load.

Graphics card fans should be set to 100% at 90c. If you set it to 40%, don't be suprised if the system shuts down. Now if its *TOO LOUD*, that's another problem.

For me, loud fans during gaming isn't a big deal. But if its REALLY THAT LOUD, just use 3rd party VGA cooler OR return/sell the card.


----------



## ratirt (May 22, 2020)

I have recently (2 weeks ago) bought a 5600 XT to check this so-called "driver issue" because I just needed to know. My friends have the 5700 XT - non XT and they did not have any problems which I have mentioned here and been pounded for it by some of the TPU society members. Now I got my own 5600 xt Navi and I have no driver issues. No crashes, no black screens (or any other color screens) Everything works as intended and I'm really happy with it.
But....
I've encountered a problem at the beginning. I had a black screen but I've fixed it. (random in game sometimes in the unigine during bench just like most people describe the problem. No pattern just pure random black screens). Turned out it was my good ol' PSU. (It actually started with my Vega 64 black screens that got me thinking). I've had my Corsair AXi 760W for 8 years. I got a new one, SeaSonic 750W GOLD. All problems gone. Actually I've discovered that Unigine Heaven runs faster with the brand new PSU using the same settings for the card which is not surprising.
In conclusion, maybe there are some drivers issues with the new Navi but I think it is a minor problem and a certain circumstance is necessary for the driver to crash or a black screen. I been saying this for a while and I wasn't received nicely here but most of the problems are user issues or hardware and the last one doesn't necessarily means graphics card.


----------



## Xzibit (May 22, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Why have you not RMA'd your card yet? It was abundantly clear from the previous thread (which was locked because of the low-quality ranting) that you have a defective card.
> 
> RMA it.



Might not be eligible

Gigabytes policy


> b) Dismantling the structure or maintenance on your own.



Think he had a thread/post on it.


----------



## Regeneration (May 22, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Why have you not RMA'd your card yet? It was abundantly clear from the previous thread (which was locked because of the low-quality ranting) that you have a defective card.
> 
> RMA it.



His problem is overheating due to bad fan curve from factory and loud stock fans. RMA won't help.









						Gigbayte RTX 2060OC Issues, Help Please
					

So recently i have returned my RTX 2060 OC from gigabyte to high temperatures and a really loud noise that occurred every now and then, the place has received the card and they told me that it got tested and they found no faults, what do i do? video of the noise:




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Unfortunately, Gigabyte will just return it back.

He needs to exchange the card to another or upgrade the cooling system.

Gigabyte is known to release second revisions of products because of things like this.


----------



## Icon Charlie (May 22, 2020)

Regeneration said:


> Damn, missed today's flame war.
> 
> High-end graphics cards (300w) need proper cooling both ON and AROUND. Don't be suprised if it hits 100c if you use a cheap mid-tower case.
> 
> ...



I've had a good track record with Corsair with their cases.  Personally I really liked their Carbide 400R with is incredibly hard to find these days.  Which is why I have 3 500R cases.  For some reason even though they were expensive for their time the 500R is more prevalent than the 400R. The 750D is a good case.  Again if you got a case that can get the heat out asap then you go a winner.

Graphic cards concerning fans.  For my reference card it was at 48% of fan speed as it's sweet spot.  But you are right I had issues trying to lower down to the 40 to 43% range. I can raise the fan rate higher  but after 50% is does sound like a jet engine.  Kind of funny actually hearing it take off while I was testing for that sweet spot. 



ratirt said:


> I have recently (2 weeks ago) bought a 5600 XT to check this so-called "driver issue" because I just needed to know. My friends have the 5700 XT - non XT and they did not have any problems which I have mentioned here and been pounded for it by some of the TPU society members. Now I got my own 5600 xt Navi and I have no driver issues. No crashes, no black screens (or any other color screens) Everything works as intended and I'm really happy with it.
> But....
> I've encountered a problem at the beginning. I had a black screen but I've fixed it. (random in game sometimes in the unigine during bench just like most people describe the problem. No pattern just pure random black screens). Turned out it was my good ol' PSU. (It actually started with my Vega 64 black screens that got me thinking). I've had my Corsair AXi 760W for 8 years. I got a new one, SeaSonic 750W GOLD. All problems gone. Actually I've discovered that Unigine Heaven runs faster with the brand new PSU using the same settings for the card which is not surprising.
> In conclusion, maybe there are some drivers issues with the new Navi but I think it is a minor problem and a certain circumstance is necessary for the driver to crash or a black screen. I been saying this for a while and I wasn't received nicely here but most of the problems are user issues or hardware and the last one doesn't necessarily means graphics card.



Ahh PSU's   one of the few places people  kind of scrimp on and/or have no idea on how big or what kind to get.  For my current Rig I bought a Rosewill Capstone 850 watt Modular Supply 80+ gold,  and I got it for $80. It got good reviews so I picked one up and am happy with it.  The same price now, if you can find it is $140.








						Rosewill CAPSTONE 550M 550W ATX Semi-Modular Power Supply (80 PLUS GOLD Certified) - Newegg.com
					

Buy Rosewill CAPSTONE Series, CAPSTONE-550-M, 550W Semi-Modular Power Supply, 80 PLUS GOLD Certified, Single +12V Rail, SLI & CrossFire Ready, Black with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				



I like a bit of overkill on my PSU as my watt usage under load is around 312 watts.  


NOTE: there has been a current shortage of PSU's currently.  This not because of Tariff, something else is going on.

My current build was a contest (private forum) to build a "Best bang for the buck build" for $900 during the holiday season. Which is superior to Linus Tech tips $900 holiday build that was sponsored by Nvidia.    Since I was not shackled by "Sponsorship" I was able to squeeze more "creamy smoothness" of components as well as having a upgradeable path (X570 MB instead of a X470 or B450MB) for a foreseable future.      

 I think with the 5700 issues is that there are more than just drivers that are causing issues.  What bothers me is that people are spending a lot of money now than ever before to get performance.  And when, in this case the video card is not performing due to early on teething of sloppy drivers, then perceived quality control (in my case hell yes there is an issue with my 5700XT). people are going to be upset.    And they have every right to be so.


----------



## ratirt (May 22, 2020)

Icon Charlie said:


> I've had a good track record with Corsair with their cases.  Personally I really liked their Carbide 400R with is incredibly hard to find these days.  Which is why I have 3 500R cases.  For some reason even though they were expensive for their time the 500R is more prevalent than the 400R. The 750D is a good case.  Again if you got a case that can get the heat out asap then you go a winner.
> 
> Graphic cards concerning fans.  For my reference card it was at 48% of fan speed as it's sweet spot.  But you are right I had issues trying to lower down to the 40 to 43% range. I can raise the fan rate higher  but after 50% is does sound like a jet engine.  Kind of funny actually hearing it take off while I was testing for that sweet spot.
> 
> ...


I can't buy rosewill in Norway even though I tried. I wanted to get their server branded chassis for my TRs (custom water cooling solutions) but there is no way they can ship it here due to some restrictions and lack of certification. Two bad because I really like their products.
With the NAVI driver issues. Well I don't have any issues since my PSU swap. My 5600 XT came with the older bios. 1750Mhz core 1500Mhz vram. I've oc'ed the Vram to 1750Mhz (no bios updates) and it works flawlessly. I'm considering Bios update but is it necessary since everything works fine? Maybe there are driver issues in some cases but I haven't seen any so far.
BTW. with the corsair AXi 760W I think I've damaged my Vega. It doesn't want to boot. Thinking of getting it hooked up aside the rx5600XT and see if I can boot to OS and if the card is recognized. When trying to benchmark it just buzzed, gave grsshhhh sound and computer restarted. People underestimate the value of a PSU in any system.


----------



## BoboOOZ (May 22, 2020)

I have built a fresh system with an MSI EVOKE 5700XT OC a few months ago.

I experienced quite a bit of crashes and glitches in the beginning (anywhere from 1 to 4 reboots per 2 hours gaming session) so, in the beginning, I have blamed the darned drivers, "knowing" from online forums that they are quite bad.

After a while, I started analyzing what I was doing and I realized that all my problems came from bad interactions between (too much) tuning software that I was using. I used MSI Dragon Center, AfterBurner, the Radeon suite and Ryzen Master. I removed Dragon Center from my startup and got rid of the Afterburner profiles

Nowadays I work with a BIOS fan curve for CPU/case, and all GPU related tuning is done via the Radeon drivers. And all is working fine, I have a silent and reliable PC. I just need to upgrade my cheap HDMI cable which at times bottlenecks the comm between GPU and monitor, but all the crashes are gone already.

So, in my experience, the drivers are fine, however, using multiple software utilities to tune the pc is a bad idea, since once installed they will work behind your back and, most probably each of these pieces of software "thinks" it is alone in modifying your settings, so having more of them trying to do conflicting things in the same time is probably what is giving most people a bad experience.


----------



## ratirt (May 22, 2020)

BoboOOZ said:


> I have built a fresh system with an MSI EVOKE 5700XT OC a few months ago.
> 
> I experienced quite a bit of crashes and glitches in the beginning (anywhere from 1 to 4 reboots per 2 hours gaming session) so, in the beginning, I have blamed the darned drivers, "knowing" from online forums that they are quite bad.
> 
> ...


Honestly, never thought about that before. I only use MSI Afterburner and Radeon software. Some valid point instead of laughs, mockery and pointless driver blames without any additional input. 
Thanks for sharing man


----------



## bug (May 22, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Honestly, never thought about that before. I only use MSI Afterburner and Radeon software. Some valid point instead of laughs, mockery and pointless driver blames without any additional input.
> Thanks for sharing man


I'm not sure why you're defending the driver so fiercely. Afterburner and similar software are user-space application, they cannot crash the video card. They all work by issuing commands... wait for it... to the driver! Sure, having several pieces of software that all do the same thing is really not recommended, but that shouldn't lead to crashes. More likely the additional commands sent to the driver cause some race conditions or something similar.

Sure, the driver is innocent until proven guilty. But since it is involved in _all_ scenarios, it also cannot be exonerated until the cause is found.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 22, 2020)

bug said:


> I'm not sure why you're defending the driver so fiercely. Afterburner and similar software are user-space application, they cannot crash the video card. They all work by issuing commands... wait for it... to the driver! Sure, having several pieces of software that all do the same thing is really not recommended, but that shouldn't lead to crashes. More likely the additional commands sent to the driver cause some race conditions or something similar.
> 
> Sure, the driver is innocent until proven guilty. But since it is involved in _all_ scenarios, it also cannot be exonerated until the cause is found.


Look , if you use IQue , starting any other hardware monitoring messes up it's signaling.

It's not alone most programs that interegate hardware signal and control at a low level has interaction issues with software it doesn't expect to be doing the same things at the same time.

So I disagree with your point.
Using unsupported tools removed the blame from AMD not amplifies it IMHO.

I also disagree with non 5700 owner's coming in here to moan about something they don't own so are spreading BS.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 22, 2020)

Icon Charlie said:


> Following your link, one of the people on Reddit was having issues with his card. He diagnosed his problem to his computer case.  Now this has always been a bone of contention with me.  I am not a fan of the current case trends that has been going on for the past 4+ years.  The added cost for the bling bling as well as air flow issues plus the additional costs to correct those Air flow issues IMHO has been swept under the rug.
> 
> I'm retired (system builder) but I still have a small but loyal customer base (10 to 20 years). I help them out to try to keep costs down and for the most part they are not the stereo typical Millennial/Zoomer Crowd.  Just people that want their computer to run as long as possible before making another purchase.
> 
> ...


My temps max at 64c when running Mafia II definitive in 4K maxed out.


Went from 82c+ to just 64c.

My chassis has no front, it is just 2 120mm fans, you can just put your hand literall into the case if you wanted to.


----------



## sepheronx (May 22, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> My temps max at 64c when running Mafia II definitive in 4K maxed out.



How are the fan noise?  And if you dont mind me asking, how much did you pay for your card?  Kinda silly about the fan curve issue but im glad to hear it is working now.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 22, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> How are the fan noise?  And if you dont mind me asking, how much did you pay for your card?  Kinda silly about the fan curve issue but im glad to hear it is working now.


Pretty loud, but i don't mind some noise so long as it shuts up on idle.

Having the fan fixed means Zero fan mode don't work.


----------



## Regeneration (May 22, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Pretty loud, but i don't mind some noise so long as it shuts up on idle.
> 
> Having the fan fixed means Zero fan mode don't work.



Did you try Gigabyte's Aorus Engine? Fan control appears to work better for some people.


----------



## Kanan (May 22, 2020)

bug said:


> I'm not sure why you're defending the driver so fiercely. Afterburner and similar software are user-space application, they cannot crash the video card. They all work by issuing commands... wait for it... to the driver! Sure, having several pieces of software that all do the same thing is really not recommended, but that shouldn't lead to crashes. More likely the additional commands sent to the driver cause some race conditions or something similar.
> 
> Sure, the driver is innocent until proven guilty. But since it is involved in _all_ scenarios, it also cannot be exonerated until the cause is found.


I would say, Nvidia is certainly more tolerant to things like these. Maybe RDNA will be over time too - they have already made big improvements so far. None of you both is wrong though - keep the PC clean is recommended, don't overdo it. But the drivers aren't perfect either.


----------



## ratirt (May 22, 2020)

bug said:


> I'm not sure why you're defending the driver so fiercely. Afterburner and similar software are user-space application, they cannot crash the video card. They all work by issuing commands... wait for it... to the driver! Sure, having several pieces of software that all do the same thing is really not recommended, but that shouldn't lead to crashes. More likely the additional commands sent to the driver cause some race conditions or something similar.
> 
> Sure, the driver is innocent until proven guilty. But since it is involved in _all_ scenarios, it also cannot be exonerated until the cause is found.


What is your problem huh? I commented on @BoboOOZ reply saying that the tuning applications made his video card go crazy and crash. That is what he has noticed and the fix was to remove some apps to solve his problems. I didn't use as many tuning software but at least his point was valid. You guys come here, mock people and laugh at them. Forcing others to believe what you say because other forums (and people with problems) say it is the drivers. (not even checking this out or do some tests anything) I'm not defending the drivers because as I see it there is no problem with the driver. I bought the 5600xt, i ran Unigine for hours in a loop, various resolutions and settings, other games for hours and there was no black screens or any crashes after I've changed my PSU to the SeaSonic. As for you, a person that doesn't even posses such a card, saying it's the drivers, that's lame. For some reason, you want the drivers to be bad and to be blamed. innocent driver  catchy phrases with no background on the matter nor anything?  I don't have problems with the drivers and many people don't  That is what I, as an owner of the card, can tell you. 
BTW. My Vega 64 red devil died. I assume the old PSU is to blame for it. I have encountered crash in Unigine with the RX 5600 XT after 3 min with the old Corsair AXi 750W which is 8 years old. Swapping PSU solved everything. Power spikes or voltage not sure yet. (1050 Ti worked fine but it doesn't need additional power). Wanna check this one out to contribute?


----------



## Chrispy_ (May 22, 2020)

Regeneration said:


> His problem is overheating due to bad fan curve from factory and loud stock fans. RMA won't help.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The print and video reviews of his exact card say that it's a well-cooled, quiet card.
Defective BIOS, defective card, or defective case airflow was what the previous thread seemed to point at. My money was on a bad BIOS messing the voltage/fan curves up.



BoboOOZ said:


> After a while, I started analyzing what I was doing and I realized that all my problems came from bad interactions between (too much) tuning software that I was using. I used MSI Dragon Center, AfterBurner, the Radeon suite and Ryzen Master. I removed Dragon Center from my startup and got rid of the Afterburner profiles
> 
> Nowadays I work with a BIOS fan curve for CPU/case, and all GPU related tuning is done via the Radeon drivers. And all is working fine, I have a silent and reliable PC.


This, 100%.

Third party tuning software has always had a bad reputation for bloat/bugs and I've always avoided it. With AMD drivers offering a serviceable (if not flawless) tuning suite in the driver, it would seem pointless to install anything else. Only for Nvidia cards must I resort to third-party junk because Nvidia still hasn't bothered updating their control panel since the Windows XP days.

Over the last 20 years I have attributed some of my most irritating problems to vendor bloatware, disovering that Asus AI suite caused micro-stuttering and Gigabyte's APP center causing 1-per second stutters in full-screen gaming. MSI afterburner is super popular, but only because it was the ONLY option for a long time. It's still a very generic solution that works on everything and cannot possibly be as well tailored to any specific card as the card-vendor's own solution. At least it's not known to cause any major issues but I certainly wouldn't run it alongside another GPU tuning app (like the AMD drivers, for example).

I'm also going to place some blame on Nvidia. I jump between GPU vendors a lot. It's part of my job, but I also have a couple of machines at home that benefit from work cast-offs as free upgrades. No matter where I am, whether it's home or at one of the work sites, whenever I have driver issues on AMD, it's often because I've swapped from Nvidia to AMD without doing a DDU on the old Nvidia drivers. I can't ever recall having driver problems caused by residual AMD drivers on a machine, which makes me think that much like the Windows XP-era control panel, Nvidia's drivers are dirty and old and don't remove cleanly from a system. DDU is essential if you are upgrading from an older Nvidia GPU (and this applies to both a new AMD card *AND* a new Nvidia card!)


----------



## bug (May 22, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I also disagree with non 5700 owner's coming in here to moan about something they don't own so are spreading BS.


Because if you own one, suddenly you understand so much better how hardware and software works, right?


----------



## BoboOOZ (May 22, 2020)

JackOne said:


> I would say, Nvidia is certainly more tolerant to things like these. Maybe RDNA will be over time too - they have already made big improvements so far. None of you both is wrong though - keep the PC clean is recommended, don't overdo it. But the drivers aren't perfect either.



From my experience, software is never perfect. There are 2 ways to go, either close most options of your software so that it always runs in the nominal cases, this way there will be less problems, but the users do not get any customizability. Or you can go the other way around, opening the software to customization, but also to way more potential problems. It is almost impossible to get both without incurring huge development and testing expenses.

AMD's ecosystem offers a lot of customization leeway, but in the same time they're open to a lot more potential problems. As an enthusiast, I largely prefer that, but there is a learning curve and it is not for everybody.

Don't know much about Nvidia software these days, my last Nvidia card (in my personal computer) was on an AGP slot and custom fan curves didn't exist back then.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 22, 2020)

bug said:


> Because if you own one, suddenly you understand so much better how hardware and software works, right?


Certainly helps with specifics of an issue.

And sure as the sun sets, using something yourself truly enlightens you to what is going on.
Verses owning a competitor's card and just supposing based on prior experience with different tech.

And your claims regards to software are Bs anyway so yes, as others and I can PROVE using multiple system tuning applications causes issues that can crash PC's and suggesting otherwise is disingenuous.

F#####g AI suite is the best example, I have used it on but mostly off for over ten years and that piece of shit is going no where near any pc I own again.

IQue I live with now.


----------



## Kanan (May 22, 2020)

BoboOOZ said:


> From my experience, software is never perfect. There are 2 ways to go, either close most options of your software so that it always runs in the nominal cases, this way there will be less problems, but the users do not get any customizability. Or you can go the other way around, opening the software to customization, but also to way more potential problems. It is almost impossible to get both without incurring huge development and testing expenses.
> 
> AMD's ecosystem offers a lot of customization leeway, but in the same time they're open to a lot more potential problems. As an enthusiast, I largely prefer that, but there is a learning curve and it is not for everybody.
> 
> Don't know much about Nvidia software these days, my last Nvidia card (in my personal computer) was on an AGP slot and custom fan curves didn't exist back then.


True. Most people just want to plug it in and play, they don't wanna bother themselves with troubleshooting or modifications. Nvidia is simple, it works. I'm a 90% Nvidia user, but I had Radeon's in the "dark time" of their drivers, suffice to say, it was greatly exaggerated. I almost never had any driver problems with my 5000 series GPU's, not even in Crossfire. I doubt I would have big problems now. Radeons are good for, if you have a clean PC and know what you're doing.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 22, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Certainly helps with specifics of an issue.
> 
> And sure as the sun sets, using something yourself truly enlightens you to what is going on.
> Verses owning a competitor's card and just supposing based on prior experience with different tech.
> ...




One awesome thing about the Aorus 5700-XT is that there is no void warrenty if you replace the thermal paste.

I applied Ceramique 2 with great success.



JackOne said:


> True. Most people just want to plug it in and play, they don't wanna bother themselves with troubleshooting or modifications. Nvidia is simple, it works. I'm a 90% Nvidia user, but I had Radeon's in the "dark time" of their drivers, suffice to say, it was greatly exaggerated. I almost never had any driver problems with my 5000 series GPU's, not even in Crossfire. I doubt I would have big problems now. Radeons are good for, if you have a clean PC and know what you're doing.


I run a secondary older computer as you can see in my signature, i had to change out for a GTX from a 4850 to get Medal of Honor Pacific Assault to run at all.
I remember running GTA IV on the 4870 back in the day and even though the 9800GTX+ was slower, it was smoother.


----------



## bug (May 22, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Certainly helps with specifics of an issue.
> 
> And sure as the sun sets, using something yourself truly enlightens you to what is going on.


AMD themselves were unable to tell where the fault lies, I suppose it's because they didn't ask you? Because you certainly seem to know better.


----------



## Kanan (May 22, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> I run a secondary older computer as you can see in my signature, i had to change out for a GTX from a 4850 to get Medal of Honor Pacific Assault to run at all.
> I remember running GTA IV on the 4870 back in the day and even though the 9800GTX+ was slower, it was smoother.


I don't know about that. I played Battlefield's (multiple), World of Warcraft, some other AAA titles, even some indie games, no problems. The worst thing was, Crossfire not working in 2 games, and that's it. People talk about the 4000 or 5000 series like their drivers were hell, but I've never seen it, the cards were one of the best I ever had. People exaggerate today as well. Drivers are probably 99% fine.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 22, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> One awesome thing about the Aorus 5700-XT is that there is no void warrenty if you replace the thermal paste.
> 
> I applied Ceramique 2 with great success.
> 
> ...


Ceramique2 I have loads of it , it's not the best ,far from the worse but I rate mx5 ,kryonaught, and definitely conductonaught are better.
I use that for customer PC 

@bug please point to the post where I suggest I know what is happening here, I didn't, you did.

No sir I only argued against your points.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 22, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Ceramique2 I have loads of it , it's not the best ,far from the worse but I rate mx5 ,kryonaught, and definitely conductonaught are better.
> I use that for customer PC


Been condisering a conductive paste, may get some konductonaugt!

Ceramique 2 is an excellently reliable paste though as it just seems to last forever and never dries out giving considerably reliable and flat results with temperatures, but i have never done more than a good air tower or AIO setup, never done a custom loop before.


----------



## ratirt (May 22, 2020)

BoboOOZ said:


> From my experience, software is never perfect. There are 2 ways to go, either close most options of your software so that it always runs in the nominal cases, this way there will be less problems, but the users do not get any customizability. Or you can go the other way around, opening the software to customization, but also to way more potential problems. It is almost impossible to get both without incurring huge development and testing expenses.
> 
> AMD's ecosystem offers a lot of customization leeway, but in the same time they're open to a lot more potential problems. As an enthusiast, I largely prefer that, but there is a learning curve and it is not for everybody.
> 
> Don't know much about Nvidia software these days, my last Nvidia card (in my personal computer) was on an AGP slot and custom fan curves didn't exist back then.


The drivers nowadays offer way more stuff. Previously, all the settings were in games that your card either supports or not.
I'm still tweaking my Radeon drivers with the 5600XT. Seen some more things showing up. I've moved to Global settings but I can tell, for certain games, individual setting work better. I'm still testing features.


Decryptor009 said:


> Been condisering a conductive paste, may get some konductonaugt!
> 
> Ceramique 2 is an excellently reliable paste though as it just seems to last forever and never dries out giving considerably reliable and flat results with temperatures, but i have never done more than a good air tower or AIO setup, never done a custom loop before.


I used the kryonaut on my vega. The temps dropped noticeably. I've had a serious problem with the hot spot going above 100C. I don't know if I would risk a liquid metal paste on a GPU. The temps were never that bad.


----------



## BoboOOZ (May 22, 2020)

JackOne said:


> True. Most people just want to plug it in and play, they don't wanna bother themselves with troubleshooting or modifications. Nvidia is simple, it works. I'm a 90% Nvidia user, but I had Radeon's in the "dark time" of their drivers, suffice to say, it was greatly exaggerated. I almost never had any driver problems with my 5000 series GPU's, not even in Crossfire. I doubt I would have big problems now. Radeons are good for, if you have a clean PC and know what you're doing.


Well, FWIW I believe AMD has been addressing the enthusiast segment more than Nvidia because of their market position, the more they grow, the more their policies and software will start resembling those of Nvidia and Intel, that is, a simple and more reliable environment with way fewer customization options and less intergeneration compatibility. This is already starting to show in their CPU policies. In future, they will offer much more similar experiences, I wonder what topics will animate fan battles in the fora ?


----------



## bug (May 22, 2020)

BoboOOZ said:


> From my experience, software is never perfect. There are 2 ways to go, either close most options of your software so that it always runs in the nominal cases, this way there will be less problems, but the users do not get any customizability. Or you can go the other way around, opening the software to customization, but also to way more potential problems. It is almost impossible to get both without incurring huge development and testing expenses.
> 
> AMD's ecosystem offers a lot of customization leeway, but in the same time they're open to a lot more potential problems. As an enthusiast, I largely prefer that, but there is a learning curve and it is not for everybody.
> 
> Don't know much about Nvidia software these days, my last Nvidia card (in my personal computer) was on an AGP slot and custom fan curves didn't exist back then.


Still, the simple fact remains that anything such an app does still has to go through the driver. When the driver craps out, Windows had TDR (or at least I think it's Windows who provides that).
It's a seemingly very specific combination that manages to mess all that up, but still the probability remains high the problem is either in the driver or in the silicon.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 22, 2020)

bug said:


> Still, the simple fact remains that anything such an app does still has to go through the driver. When the driver craps out, Windows had TDR (or at least I think it's Windows who provides that).
> It's a seemingly very specific combination that manages to mess all that up, but still the probability remains high the problem is either in the driver or in the silicon.


See ,who exactly is dispensing opinions on how this is playing out.
It's possibly hardware now because you found ??  What exactly.

Funny.


----------



## Kanan (May 22, 2020)

BoboOOZ said:


> Well, FWIW I believe AMD has been addressing the enthusiast segment more than Nvidia because of their market position, the more they grow, the more their policies and software will start resembling those of Nvidia and Intel, that is, a simple and more reliable environment with way fewer customization options and less intergeneration compatibility. This is already starting to show in their CPU policies. In future, they will offer much more similar experiences, I wonder what topics will animate fan battles in the fora ?


The difference is more like, AMD/ATI is for tinkerers, and Nvidia more or less, isn't. Nvidia has a heck load of options, just the driver UI looks outdated as fuck compared to Radeon Adrenalin. For my experience with Radeon, I didn't tinker much, but I can see that the new ones have a heck load of tinkering options, like Radeon Chill, Sharpening, etc.  Nvidia, in that regard, they have things like Ansel, DLSS, RTX, more or less useless features, at least to me and for now. RTX needs still time IMO. Radeon Chill is more interesting than those. 

PS. Enthusiast, I mean it depends how you define it. Talking performance, AMD has no "enthusiastic" GPUs at all. RDNA 2 could change that, though. I certainly hope so.


----------



## bug (May 22, 2020)

JackOne said:


> I don't know about that. I played Battlefield's (multiple), World of Warcraft, some other AAA titles, even some indie games, no problems. The worst thing was, Crossfire not working in 2 games, and that's it. People talk about the 4000 or 5000 series like their drivers were hell, but I've never seen it, the cards were one of the best I ever had. People exaggerate today as well. Drivers are probably 99% fine.


Yes, I think this needs to be said again.
Even whrn you buy way more expensive stuff, there are bad batches. Be it an OLED TV, a BMW and whatnot, sometimes the defect rate is higher than the average. People get riled up, but it's still about issues in well under 10% of the products sold. The real annoyance here is comfort: you have to return the product, sometimes wait for a while while the problem is investigated all the while your money's gone and you get nothing in return.
In this particular case it's slightly more puzzling that AMD hasn't announced they even identified the problem.

And once more, if you live in a civilized country, this is still not an issue. But in some countries, returning/servicing does not go that smooth and in those cases, you may want to exercise extra caution.

_There's no fraud, incompetence or anything else going on here. It's just a batch of bad luck for AMD._



theoneandonlymrk said:


> See ,who exactly is dispensing opinions on how this is playing out.
> It's possibly hardware now because you found ??  What exactly.
> 
> Funny.


What's funny? 2080Ti had somewhat similar issues and it turned out it was about a bad batch of VRAM.


----------



## Kanan (May 22, 2020)

Fact is, I was about to buy a 5700 XT, and reddit was full of people with driver problems, so I bought a 1080 Ti used instead. But today, it should be fine. I cut them some slack, the architecture was brand new. The company is smaller and has not just GPUs which they have to manage.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 22, 2020)

bug said:


> Yes, I think this needs to be said again.
> Even whrn you buy way more expensive stuff, there are bad batches. Be it an OLED TV, a BMW and whatnot, sometimes the defect rate is higher than the average. People get riled up, but it's still about issues in well under 10% of the products sold. The real annoyance here is comfort: you have to return the product, sometimes wait for a while while the problem is investigated all the while your money's gone and you get nothing in return.
> In this particular case it's slightly more puzzling that AMD hasn't announced they even identified the problem.
> 
> ...


What , so now back up your defective hardware prognosis.

If you can.

Your funny, you accused me of being a smart ass who knows everything, yet I'm not the one throwing opinions about that I can't prove or back up with experience.

And I'm not buying your opinions because they're weighted by nothing.


----------



## ratirt (May 22, 2020)

bug said:


> Yes, I think this needs to be said again.
> Even whrn you buy way more expensive stuff, there are bad batches. Be it an OLED TV, a BMW and whatnot, sometimes the defect rate is higher than the average. People get riled up, but it's still about issues in well under 10% of the products sold. The real annoyance here is comfort: you have to return the product, sometimes wait for a while while the problem is investigated all the while your money's gone and you get nothing in return.
> In this particular case it's slightly more puzzling that AMD hasn't announced they even identified the problem.


Maybe there is nothing to identify when you use genuine components to work with the product but yet, you can't ignore the audience (potential customers) even though some of them (not wanting to buy the product anyway) spread unconfirmed and untrue info around.
If the batch is bad (like a video card) it is not AMD's fault (unless it's a faulty chip) but a card vendor.


----------



## Kanan (May 22, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Maybe there is nothing to identify when you use genuine components to work with the product but yet, you can't ignore the audience (potential customers) even though some of them (not wanting to buy the product anyway) spread unconfirmed and untrue info around.
> If the batch is bad (like a video card) it is not AMD's fault (unless it's a faulty chip) but a card vendor.


There's a website in germany which has user authentification, so it means, you can see if he is a true buyer of the GPU or not. And 5000 series GPUs have a lot of negative comments, though 80% are fine. It is not a rumour - drivers could be better. Then again, like I said, this is not an issue for experienced users.


----------



## BoboOOZ (May 22, 2020)

ratirt said:


> The drivers nowadays offer way more stuff. Previously, all the settings were in games that your card either supports or not.
> I'm still tweaking my Radeon drivers with the 5600XT. Seen some more things showing up. I've moved to Global settings but I can tell, for certain games, individual setting work better. I'm still testing features.


Indeed, they are much more than drivers in fact. Undervolting, framerate capping, changing thermal envelope are very powerful tools. If anything I think that AMD is making t a mistake in leaving them so easily accessible in the UI, because you need to test each time your system stability after these tweaks. I also had issues with this, I applied too ambitious an undervolting at my card would crash, but only under very heavy load...



JackOne said:


> The difference is more like, AMD/ATI is for tinkerers, and Nvidia more or less, isn't. Nvidia has a heck load of options, just the driver UI looks outdated as fuck compared to Radeon Adrenalin. For my experience with Radeon, I didn't tinker much, but I can see that the new ones have a heck load of tinkering options, like Radeon Chill, Sharpening, etc.  Nvidia, in that regard, they have things like Ansel, DLSS, RTX, more or less useless features, at least to me and for now. RTX needs still time IMO. Radeon Chill is more interesting than those.
> 
> PS. Enthusiast, I mean it depends how you define it. Talking performance, AMD has no "enthusiastic" GPUs at all. RDNA 2 could change that, though. I certainly hope so.


You're right, I meant tinkerer, I guess they define "enthusiast" more based on the price point of the hardware than on the level of personal involvement in assembling and customizing it.

If leaks are true (and it would certainly seem so), DLSS and RTX will be much more useful in the new generation of cards. Gotta love competition, from a user standpoint


----------



## Kanan (May 22, 2020)

BoboOOZ said:


> If leaks are true (and it would certainly seem so), DLSS and RTX will be much more useful in the new generation of cards. Gotta love competition, from a user standpoint


I'm especially curious about the raytracing implementation of Radeon and hope it is better than the proprietary Nvidia nonsense. And of course, RDNA 2, big GPUs, competition, so Nvidia has to stop selling their highend card for 1200 bucks. It has to be like in Fury X / 980 Ti times again, where nvidia was forced to bring their very best to compete. Even 780 Ti, was a counter to 290X. But since 1000 series, there's no upper competition anymore, which is bad for the customer.


----------



## Cranky5150 (May 22, 2020)

I have really not had a problem with drivers tbh..Sure all drivers are a bit buggy from time to time but nothing that has really been a big deal.


----------



## BoboOOZ (May 22, 2020)

JackOne said:


> I'm especially curious about the raytracing implementation of Radeon and hope it is better than the proprietary Nvidia nonsense.



Most likely, both Nvidia's and AMD's implementations of ray tracing will be significantly better than the current-gen.
However (this is just a personal opinion) I would be surprised if AMD's implementation was better than Nvidia's. Simply because it would be their first. It only needs to be good enough so that overall performance remains decent while enabling it.



JackOne said:


> And of course, RDNA 2, big GPUs, competition, so Nvidia has to stop selling their highend card for 1200 bucks. It has to be like in Fury X / 980 Ti times again, where nvidia was forced to bring their very best to compete. Even 780 Ti, was a counter to 290X. But since 1000 series, there's no upper competition anymore, which is bad for the customer.



From what the leaks and existing information show already, the new generation of cards will not be cheaper, unfortunately, both AMD and Nvidia seem motivated to keep the pricing scheme as it is. But they will probably offer a better price-performance ratio than the current one, and that is still a step in the good direction. But the top card will still cost 1200 bucks I'm afraid, just that instead of offering only 20% performance improvement over the previous generation, it will offer more like 40% gain, or 80% with RT on.


----------



## Kanan (May 22, 2020)

BoboOOZ said:


> Most likely, both Nvidia's and AMD's implementations of ray tracing will be significantly better than the current-gen.
> However (this is just a personal opinion) I would be surprised if AMD's implementation was better than Nvidia's. Simply because it would be their first. It only needs to be good enough so that overall performance remains decent while enabling it.


I have hope for RDNA 2 Raytracing, because it will be in the new consoles, it has to be somewhat sophisticated in order to work well. RTX has no future IMO, because it is proprietary. IMO RDNA 2 will probably be better than Ampere anyway. 


BoboOOZ said:


> From what the leaks and existing information show already, the new generation of cards will not be cheaper, unfortunately, both AMD and Nvidia seem motivated to keep the pricing scheme as it is. But they will probably offer a better price-performance ratio than the current one, and that is still a step in the good direction. But the top card will still cost 1200 bucks I'm afraid, just that instead of offering only 20% performance improvement over the previous generation, it will offer more like 40% gain, or 80% with RT on.


The thing is, if there is no competition you get prices like 1200. With competition, this can not happen again, as they will get into a bidding war. Nvidia can only repeat this, if AMD fails to compete with the 3080 Ti. But if AMD has a comparable card, or even better one, they are forced to go into a bidding war, which makes 1200 $ unlikely.


----------



## phanbuey (May 22, 2020)

The issue i have with AMD for friends / clients is that I don't want to get phone calls and texts every time it doesnt work quite right or because they decided to go with a second monitor for work and now when they game the whole setup goes dark or the second monitor shuts off.

Because of this I always put NVIDIA in my builds, you don't get the performance/$ as with AMD rx5600 or 5700 but having to worry if that setup is going to run a new game or a multi-monitor and game properly is kind of a huge deal not worth the $$.


----------



## Kanan (May 22, 2020)

phanbuey said:


> The issue i have with AMD for friends / clients is that I don't want to get phone calls and texts every time it doesnt work quite right or because they decided to go with a second monitor for work and now when they game the whole setup goes dark or the second monitor shuts off.


Not the first time  I hear this, apparently a lot of people think like this. Thing is, drivers are supposed to work now, but, yeah, not sure. And I'm only building for myself, friends and family, I can take risks there, for others, I would think twice about that.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 22, 2020)

phanbuey said:


> The issue i have with AMD for friends / clients is that I don't want to get phone calls and texts every time it doesnt work quite right or because they decided to go with a second monitor for work and now when they game the whole setup goes dark or the second monitor shuts off.
> 
> Because of this I always put NVIDIA in my builds, you don't get the performance/$ as with AMD rx5600 or 5700 but having to worry if that setup is going to run a new game or a multi-monitor and game properly is kind of a huge deal not worth the $$.


So is this thread now the ,I don't like AMD card's for X reason thread?.

Can we not just have specific hate threads for each brand, seriously.

I suggested that before.

Hater's gota hate but the constant tangential Bs is frustrating.

Is anyone bothering to read the title.


----------



## R-T-B (May 22, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Is anyone bothering to read the title.



Are you?  We are really talking about people ditching AMD cards over driver issues.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 22, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> Are you?  We are really talking about people ditching AMD cards over driver issues.


Came close to launching mine out of the window, but now it is fixed i feel good... amazing how fickle some humans can be, me included.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 22, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> Are you?  We are really talking about people ditching AMD cards over driver issues.


I like many in the thread am not.

But if you look at what's going on here  many of the poster's have not returned their card because of driver issues.  ...

Some have never owned it like me.

I only piped up originally today because someone was miss informing others.

Read through this and the last page again then come back at all, not just me .

Rdna2 is prevalent ATM here?.

In fact you could re read that title, is it AMD card's (general)no , it's 5700 owner's.

So I repeat wouldn't per brand moan thread's be better.

Most of the owners are drowned out and obfuscated by tangential moaners.


----------



## BoboOOZ (May 22, 2020)

JackOne said:


> I have hope for RDNA 2 Raytracing, because it will be in the new consoles, it has to be somewhat sophisticated in order to work well. RTX has no future IMO, because it is proprietary. IMO RDNA 2 will probably be better than Ampere anyway.


Well, I'd love to be proven wrong, but I am less optimistic than you. That would be a good thing, because I think that the  price-performance ratio will still favor AMD. But besides the fact that they like to get high margins for products, Nvidia is a company with a highly competent R&D, they are really very tough to beat. I'm not saying that RDNA2 RT will not be decent, just that I imagine Nvidia's will be better.



JackOne said:


> The thing is, if there is no competition you get prices like 1200. With competition, this can not happen again, as they will get into a bidding war. Nvidia can only repeat this, if AMD fails to compete with the 3080 Ti. But if AMD has a comparable card, or even better one, they are forced to go into a bidding war, which makes 1200 $ unlikely.


Once again, I would love to be proven wrong, but I do not think we will see a price war. AMD will have a better price-perfornance ratio, but the top >700mm² die Nvidia card will still be 1200US, and I would call myself satisfied if I'd see a 500mm² die from AMD for less than 600$. AMD will position themselves within 10% of Nvidia pricing and they will steal a few additional market parts, but there will be no price war, everyone will be happy...


----------



## R-T-B (May 22, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> Came close to launching mine out of the window, but now it is fixed i feel good... amazing how fickle some humans can be, me included.



True dat.  Been there myself.


----------



## bug (May 22, 2020)

JackOne said:


> RTX has no future IMO, because it is proprietary.


RTX is mostly DXR and DXR is exactly what AMD will have to implement. Because it's in DirectX.


JackOne said:


> IMO RDNA 2 will probably be better than Ampere anyway.


And your opinion is based on?


----------



## Vayra86 (May 22, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> I like many in the thread am not.
> 
> But if you look at what's going on here  many of the poster's have not returned their card because of driver issues.  ...
> 
> ...



Not a bad idea really, a topic where you can only post if you include actual data supporting your problem. Be it a screenshot, a sensor log, etc.


----------



## ratirt (May 22, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> Are you?  We are really talking about people ditching AMD cards over driver issues.


For me there is no driver issues  I did check it out. The bad fame is still in force. It is kinda sad because AMD's cards are good and they do offer like @BoboOOZ said, so much in features. Well I like it, maybe you have a different impression 



bug said:


> RTX is mostly DXR and DXR is exactly what AMD will have to implement. Because it's in DirectX.
> 
> And your opinion is based on?


I do like your theories  Back it up with some research or at least tell why you think that AMD should go NV's way? There's more way to reach the goal.


----------



## EarthDog (May 22, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> obfuscated by tangential moaners.


If I did sigs here... I'd sig this.

I want that to be my gaming clan tag...OTM.......could you imagine the Discord?


----------



## Vayra86 (May 22, 2020)

ratirt said:


> For me there is no driver issues  I did check it out. The bad fame is still in force. It is kinda sad because AMD's cards are good and they do offer like @BoboOOZ said, so much in features. Well I like it, maybe you have a different impression
> 
> 
> I do like your theories  Back it up with some research or at least tell why you think that AMD should go NV's way? There's more way to reach the goal.



How is DirectX Nvidia's way? The API comes from MS and is part of Xbox. AMD is also pretty close to it. They have no reason NOT to support it.

Also. If you can't beat em, join em - they already forfeited on Mantle and that was that. Vulkan is also not exactly picking up steam, or am I wrong...


----------



## ratirt (May 23, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> How is DirectX Nvidia's way? The API comes from MS and is part of Xbox. AMD is also pretty close to it. They have no reason NOT to support it.
> 
> Also. If you can't beat em, join em - they already forfeited on Mantle and that was that. Vulkan is also not exactly picking up steam, or am I wrong...


Been talking about the RTX and rt cores. Specifically what NV has. RT and everything is coming for AMD. They have announced it and it will be great.
True not sure about the mantle. I thought Vulcan is a bigger mantle. I dont think AMD left it. It was implemented in Vulcan. There is some left overs from this but it doesn't matter.


----------



## R-T-B (May 23, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Vulkan is also not exactly picking up steam, or am I wrong...



In linux land it's got a lot of steam.  They pretty much used it to get WINE up to speed on every DirectX including 12...  Outside that, not so much.


----------



## SK-1 (May 23, 2020)

Gotta admit...I was about to go from my Vega64 to a 5700 series until the stories started to hit. I decided I'll simply under volt some more and wait.


----------



## INSTG8R (May 23, 2020)

SK-1 said:


> Gotta admit...I was about to go from my Vega64 to a 5700 series until the stories started to hit. I decided I'll simply under volt some more and wait.


I did and quite happy with the performance uplift. Now I’m also a beta tester so I can‘t say anything about driver issues but I run publics when they’re released so my experience) that front has been fine. Heck the last major release literally threw the boost limits out the windows. 2019 is my stated max boost I see up to 2070 now. AMD certainly didn‘t have to do that but every Navi “can” now.


----------



## bug (May 23, 2020)

INSTG8R said:


> I did and quite happy with the performance uplift. Now I’m also a beta tester so I can‘t say anything about driver issues but I run publics when they’re released so my experience) that front has been fine. Heck the last major release literally *threw the boost limits out the windows*. *2019* is my stated max boost I see up to *2070* now. AMD certainly didn‘t have to do that but every Navi “can” now.


That would be a 2.5% improvement. I wonder a mild uplift is to you


----------



## Kanan (May 23, 2020)

BoboOOZ said:


> Well, I'd love to be proven wrong, but I am less optimistic than you. That would be a good thing, because I think that the  price-performance ratio will still favor AMD. But besides the fact that they like to get high margins for products, Nvidia is a company with a highly competent R&D, they are really very tough to beat. I'm not saying that RDNA2 RT will not be decent, just that I imagine Nvidia's will be better.


Well then I will explain better. First of all 1st gen RTX sucked ass, so going from more or less zero to something will be what Nvidia will be doing, and not like, 1440p Ultra with RTX playable. In other words, yes it will be better, but it will most likely still suck. Just less so. 

And why I have hope for AMD raytracing: like I said, because of the consoles, it has to be very well implemented to work, and because AMD is directly working with Microsoft, they have a good base for getting it running on DXR. 

No I don't expect it will kick Nvidias Raytracing, but I expect it will be comparable, because after all, Nvidia never achieved anything great with RTX. It sucks atm and will probably suck later too. 



> Once again, I would love to be proven wrong, but I do not think we will see a price war. AMD will have a better price-perfornance ratio, but the top >700mm² die Nvidia card will still be 1200US, and I would call myself satisfied if I'd see a 500mm² die from AMD for less than 600$. AMD will position themselves within 10% of Nvidia pricing and they will steal a few additional market parts, but there will be no price war, everyone will be happy...


Not possible. If AMD has a comparable GPU performance wise, nobody would buy a 1200$ nvidia GPU, only the die hard fans maybe. That's why it is very unlikely they will price it that far apart. And AMD can not command higher prices than 700-800$, with their reputation, let's say.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 23, 2020)

Yep all on point as ever.


----------



## bug (May 23, 2020)

JackOne said:


> Well then I will explain better. First of all 1st gen RTX sucked ass, so going from more or less zero to something will be what Nvidia will be doing, and not like, 1440p Ultra with RTX playable. In other words, yes it will be better, but it will most likely still suck. Just less so.
> 
> And why I have hope for AMD raytracing: like I said, because of the consoles, it has to be very well implemented to work, and because AMD is directly working with Microsoft, they have a good base for getting it running on DXR.
> 
> No I don't expect it will kick Nvidias Raytracing, but I expect it will be comparable, because after all, Nvidia never achieved anything great with RTX. It sucks atm and will probably suck later too.


So basically the ones already doing DXR cannot possibly improve it much while the ones not currently doing DXR will absolutely reach performance (and presumably quality) parity. That sounds about right, I don't imagine it could go other way  



JackOne said:


> Not possible. If AMD has a comparable GPU performance wise, nobody would buy a 1200$ nvidia GPU, only the die hard fans maybe. That's why it is very unlikely they will price it that far apart. And AMD can not command higher prices than 700-800$, with their reputation, let's say.


Threadripper and X570 have already shown you if AMD can beat the competition they can and will charge as much as the competition if not more.


----------



## Kanan (May 23, 2020)

Anti-AMD people should better stick to other threads, like other guy said.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 23, 2020)

bug said:


> So basically the ones already doing DXR cannot possibly improve it much while the ones not currently doing DXR will absolutely reach performance (and presumably quality) parity. That sounds about right, I don't imagine it could go other way
> 
> 
> Threadripper and X570 have already shown you if AMD can beat the competition they can and will charge as much as the competition if not more.


AMD just knows that intel is stuck so can play the game, they are a business.



JackOne said:


> Anti-AMD people should better stick to other threads, like other guy said.


When struggling don't be too fast to point out that someone actually is a fanboy, opinions are not always tied to an allegience but based on actual experience the user has with hardware.


----------



## BoboOOZ (May 23, 2020)

JackOne said:


> Well then I will explain better. First of all 1st gen RTX sucked ass, so going from more or less zero to something will be what Nvidia will be doing, and not like, 1440p Ultra with RTX playable. In other words, yes it will be better, but it will most likely still suck. Just less so.
> 
> And why I have hope for AMD raytracing: like I said, because of the consoles, it has to be very well implemented to work, and because AMD is directly working with Microsoft, they have a good base for getting it running on DXR.
> 
> No I don't expect it will kick Nvidias Raytracing, but I expect it will be comparable, because after all, Nvidia never achieved anything great with RTX. It sucks atm and will probably suck later too.


From what is being discussed around, the 3060 will have better RT performance than the 2080, Nvidia are already sure enough of their game to announce that. So performance will be decent, and if AMD beats them that would be quite an accomplishment because it is their first RT implementation. I guess we'll have to see.



JackOne said:


> Not possible. If AMD has a comparable GPU performance wise, nobody would buy a 1200$ nvidia GPU, only the die hard fans maybe. That's why it is very unlikely they will price it that far apart. And AMD can not command higher prices than 700-800$, with their reputation, let's say.


The problem is in the current generation AMD only gave us a 250mm² die, I'm pretty sure the next-gen will see a 500mm² die from them, but I'm not sure at all that they will try to compete in the +1000US gaming segment, so I'm afraid we will not see a full (700mm² ) die card from them.
As for price wars, that I am pretty certain about AMD don't want a price war, they will try to position themselves better in terms of price-performance than Nvidia, but we won't see a card under 1000US from AMD beating the 3080 Ti...
We'll see how it unravels in the fall, I guess


----------



## INSTG8R (May 23, 2020)

bug said:


> That would be a 2.5% improvement. I wonder a mild uplift is to you


Where are you pulling your weak numbers from? Much like the rest of your speculative nonsense? I game at 1440. But I mean I can take hard numbers from Time Spy whee I get 1000+ more points And I’m CPU limited on my scores  Try and tell me 1K isn’t a serious gain, then as+ usual you have zero experience but lots to say...


----------



## R-T-B (May 23, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> When struggling don't be too fast to point out that someone actually is a fanboy



In my experience levying the fanboy claim is nearly as harmful as being one yourself.  Often times, it's even a projection of what you really are.

Bottom line here is be civil to one another.


----------



## bug (May 23, 2020)

INSTG8R said:


> Where are you pulling your weak numbers from? Much like the rest of your speculative nonsense? I game at 1440. But I mean I can take hard numbers from Time Spy whee I get 1000+ more points And I’m CPU limited on my scores  Try and tell me 1K isn’t a serious gain, then as+ usual you have zero experience but lots to say...


I got the number from your post. I bolded them for you.



JackOne said:


> Anti-AMD people should better stick to other threads, like other guy said.


What's the matter? Don't like it when people question speculations?


----------



## Kanan (May 24, 2020)

BoboOOZ said:


> From what is being discussed around, the 3060 will have better RT performance than the 2080, Nvidia are already sure enough of their game to announce that. So performance will be decent, and if AMD beats them that would be quite an accomplishment because it is their first RT implementation. I guess we'll have to see.


Even then it just means that you need to spend at least 800 bucks for the 3080 to have proper RTX, proper, as in 1080 Ultra, still not enough for 1440p probably. And yes we should simply wait and see. 


> The problem is in the current generation AMD only gave us a 250mm² die, I'm pretty sure the next-gen will see a 500mm² die from them, but I'm not sure at all that they will try to compete in the +1000US gaming segment, so I'm afraid we will not see a full (700mm² ) die card from them.
> As for price wars, that I am pretty certain about AMD don't want a price war, they will try to position themselves better in terms of price-performance than Nvidia, but we won't see a card under 1000US from AMD beating the 3080 Ti...
> We'll see how it unravels in the fall, I guess


AMD is constantly in price wars with their competitors, it's called capitalism for a reason.


> Threadripper and X570 have already shown you if AMD can beat the competition they can and will charge as much as the competition if not more.


Nah, Radeon isn't Ryzen and Nvidia isn't Intel. Not really comparable. Not at all. Nvidia is far stronger in the GPU space than AMD is. And Radeon is not even remotely comparable to anything called Ryzen. Poor comparison. I hope I don't need to explain why.


----------



## Athlonite (May 24, 2020)

I must be the only bugger in this thread to not have had any problems with my 5700


----------



## Xzibit (May 24, 2020)

Athlonite said:


> I must be the only bugger in this thread to not have had any problems with my 5700



I'll join you so you don't feel alone.


----------



## bug (May 24, 2020)

Athlonite said:


> I must be the only bugger in this thread to not have had any problems with my 5700


Neah, it's pretty clear the problem affects less than 10% of the cards/configurations. It's just that people don't post "my X is working fine", no matter what you substitute for X.
I mean, go read an/any official support forum, it will make you think that company never made a good product in their entire existence


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 24, 2020)

bug said:


> I got the number from your post. I bolded them for you.
> 
> 
> What's the matter? Don't like it when people question speculations?


Your one of the biggest speculators? here.



Athlonite said:


> I must be the only bugger in this thread to not have had any problems with my 5700


Your one of few in the thread With the card in question unfortunately.

No poll, nothing ,pointless.


----------



## bug (May 24, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Your one of the biggest speculators? here.
> 
> 
> Your one of few in the thread With the card in question unfortunately.


Yeah, well, _you're_ from UK and you spell like that


----------



## NoJuan999 (May 24, 2020)

Athlonite said:


> I must be the only bugger in this thread to not have had any problems with my 5700


That is good to hear though.
I specifically bought an RTX 2060 Super because of all the negative posts in various forums regarding the problems with the 5700 XT's.
While I was aware that a 5700XT that worked as advertised would out perform an RTX 2060 Super, I just didn't want the hassle of potentially getting a 5700 XT that ended up being as problematic as the various users on forums suggested it would be.


----------



## Kanan (May 24, 2020)

NoJuan999 said:


> That is good to hear though.
> I specifically bought an RTX 2060 Super because of all the negative posts in various forums regarding the problems with the 5700 XT's.
> While I was aware that a 5700XT that worked as advertised would out perform an RTX 2060 Super, I just didn't want the hassle of potentially getting a 5700 XT that ended up being as problematic as the various users on forums suggested it would be.


Welcome to the party! I watched and waited and waited for good custom made 5700 XTs and by the time it was ready I realized, I'm not in the market for being a alpha tester, so I simply bought a used 1080 Ti instead. Too many negative posts. What is more important than performance in the GPU market? Drivers. Just the fact, why Nvidia will never be in the position Intel is, even if RDNA 2 should be faster, which is not likely, people will simply buy GeForce because they either heard nothing from Radeon or, worse, they heard nothing _good _from Radeon.


----------



## EarthDog (May 24, 2020)

Athlonite said:


> I must be the only bugger in this thread to not have had any problems with my 5700





Xzibit said:


> I'll join you so you don't feel alone.


I'll chime in and say I reviewed several, no issues here either. I get one for the kiddo... it does. 

That said, the issues are real. People are having trouble with this entire generation of cards (black screens). The driver says as much, did so since the 2nd Navi drivers and it hasn't been resolved.

I think this is a less than 5% thing for sure, but hell, 1 in 20 is a shed load of people. 1 in 40 (2.5%) is a shed load of people when you are selling hundreds of thousands of units.


----------



## NoJuan999 (May 24, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> I'll chime in and say I reviewed several, no issues here either. I get one for the kiddo... it does.
> 
> That said, the issues are real. People are having trouble with this entire generation of cards (black screens). The driver says as much, did so since the 2nd Navi drivers and it hasn't been resolved.
> 
> I think this is a less than 5% thing, but hell, 1 in 20 is a shed load of people. 1 in 40 (2.5%) is a shed load of people when you are selling hundreds of thousands of units.


And sadly that 5% was enough to tilt my decision to grab a 2060 Super with slightly less performance for about the same price.
I honestly wanted a 5700 XT But seeing so many negative posts about the 5700 XT's on enthusiast forums made my decision for me.
And to be honest, I have no buyers remorse at all.
My MSI Gaming GeForce RTX 2060 Super performs very well for me with zero issues.


----------



## Kanan (May 24, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> I'll chime in and say I reviewed several, no issues here. I get one for the kiddo... it does.
> 
> That said, the issues are real. People are having trouble with this entire generation of cards. The driver says as much and it hasn't been resolved.
> 
> I think this is a less than 5% thing, but hell, 1 in 20 is a shed load of people. 1 in 40 is a shed load of people when you are selling hundreds of thousands of units.


I made the effort and went through all 5500 5600 and 5700 (XT) cards in a big etailer shop, read a ton of comments, and the summary is: 80% positive and 20% negative comments overall, with some cards having as much as 25% negative comments. This is buyers only, no fakes, the shop has a authority feature. Nvidia, simply, there is no card which has more than 5 or 10% negative comments, some are lower than 2% - AMD can't get anywhere near that satisfaction level. The drivers today, are like a beta still. Give it another 6 months I guess, it will finally be matured. AMD simply needs a year to get it done, I guess. GCN drivers are rock solid meanwhile, not comparable to the shit show RDNA is. Nvidia simply concentrates their vast driver team, while AMD is spread too thin with their multi processor company. Drivers are literally the hardest thing when it comes to GPUs - i literally heard that some tech guru say, after the question why there are only two big GPU companies today, and not more.


----------



## EarthDog (May 24, 2020)

NoJuan999 said:


> And sadly that 5% was enough to tilt my decision to grab a 2060 Super with slightly less performance for about the same price.
> I honestly wanted a 5700 XT But seeing so many negative posts about the 5700 XT's on enthusiast forums made my decision for me.
> And to be honest, I have no buyers remorse at all.
> My MSI Gaming GeForce RTX 2060 Super performs very well for me with zero issues.


See, that's the thing. I'm a gambling man. And I'll take a (hypothetical) 95% success rate any day of the week. Hell, I play Blackjack and have a 51% chance to LOSE and play that like it is going out of style. 


JackOne said:


> I made the effort and went through all 5500 5600 and 5700 (XT) cards in a big etailer shop, read a ton of comments, and the summary is: 80% positive and 20% negative comments overall, with some cards having as much as 25% negative comments. This is buyers only, no fakes, the shop has a authority feature. Nvidia, simply, there is no card which has more than 5 or 10% negative comments, some are lower than 2% - AMD can't get anywhere near that satisfaction level. The drivers today, are like a beta still. Give it another 6 months I guess, it will finally be matured. AMD simply needs a year to get it done, I guess. GCN drivers are rock solid meanwhile, not comparable to the shit show RDNA is. Nvidia simply concentrates their vast driver team, while AMD is spread too thin with their multi processor company. Drivers are literally the hardest thing when it comes to GPUs - i literally heard that some tech guru say, after the question why there are only two big GPU companies today, and not more.


They aren't that bad. Surely.

But they've had a year, or damn close to it already. Adrenalin drivers tout stability and 2020 was their worst effort yet.

Again, I say that knowing few (though plenty) have been affected.


----------



## Decryptor009 (May 24, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> See, that's the thing. I'm a gambling man. And I'll take a (hypothetical) 95% success rate any day of the week. Hell, I play Blackjack and have a 51% chance to LOSE and play that like it is going out of style.
> They aren't that bad. Surely.
> 
> But they've had a year, or damn close to it already. Adrenalin drivers tout stability and 2020 was their worst effort yet.
> ...


When you need to manually adjust the driver so that it allows your card to use more than 30% fan speed to stop it shutting off and black screening even on the latest driver revision, clearly AMD need to pull their fingers from the dirt.


----------



## Kanan (May 24, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> They aren't that bad. Surely.


Not for tech savvy nerds maybe, but for the average users, every 5th guy seems to have problems. For Nvidia users, problems are a rarity. I'm still waiting for the first problem with the 1080 Ti after 7 months. It works like a charm. And my system is quite exotic.


----------



## Nuckles56 (May 24, 2020)

So far so good with the system I built with a 5700XT, it has been nice and stable so far and boosts nice and high for good performance. That said I haven't had problems with either AMD or nvidia cards outside of the gt 1030 in my htpc running on ubuntu which occasionally has black screen issues which go away after a reboot.


----------



## BoboOOZ (May 24, 2020)

JackOne said:


> AMD is constantly in price wars with their competitors, it's called capitalism for a reason.


Ah, I see now, you call price war being placed competitively. What most people call price war is making multiple price cuts so that products are sold close to their production price, or sometimes lower. We're far from this for this generation, where AMD sold their 250mm2 die for 400usd and they were less competitive in the lower segment and they didn't compete at all in the higher one. They will move up the ladder with the next generation, but no crown and still no price war.


----------



## user112 (May 24, 2020)

the biggest problem for me is that AMD has had broken OpenGL support for years in their official drivers while in open source MESA drivers it's fixed.  which to me speaks volumes about how incompetent their driver team is. since things like that causes broken graphics and lost benchmarks which means less sales. because very few people test GPUs in linux.


----------



## HD64G (May 24, 2020)

FYI, my Pulse 5700 continues being a perfectly performer. Some driver versions created problems but from 20.2.2 and onwards all good with great performance too.


----------



## INSTG8R (May 24, 2020)

bug said:


> I got the number from your post. I bolded them for you.


Thats another FREE 2.5% that was gIven to us after release. So add that to the improvement it already had over Vega


----------



## Athlonite (May 24, 2020)

Same GPU as me HD64G


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 24, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> When you need to manually adjust the driver so that it allows your card to use more than 30% fan speed to stop it shutting off and black screening even on the latest driver revision, clearly AMD need to pull their fingers from the dirt.


I am fairly certain AMD don't pre configure fan curve's for OEM card's and that the AIB manufacturers should both be setting up the fan curve's , obviously the reference card's are reference, I'm talking AIB card's.
AMD cannot know the cooling system of each card so couldn't make one fan curve for all.

If they did or do then it would still be upto the OEM to pick parts that will work effectively to cool the system.

If an AIB card doesn't cool right ,to me it's the AIB at fault.


----------



## ratirt (May 25, 2020)

HD64G said:


> FYI, my Pulse 5700 continues being a perfectly performer. Some driver versions created problems but from 20.2.2 and onwards all good with great performance too.


My pulse 5600xt gives me a heart beat like I have never had while playing games.
No problems here with the card. I was hoping to do some OC and tweaks on it (Maybe Bios update I got the older one) but I didn't have a lot of time for that.
This is actually what I'm talking about. People blame drivers but I have no issues. I think if there were major drivers issues all of us would have experienced it. More or less but all of us. My 5600xt crashed and black screened due to my hardware. Mainly broken PSU which has been replaced. No problems now. So I'm really skeptical about this driver issues. I decided to go NAVI to see for myself and "driver issues" has been blown out of proportion very badly.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> If an AIB card doesn't cool right ,to me it's the AIB at fault.


For me that is an obvious thing. 
If a card has cooling issues or the card has a problem with whatever. People blame AMD, God knows why if they have only their chip in the card. What I know is, people will always blame someone even if the fault lies on their side.


----------



## Filip Georgievski (May 25, 2020)

As a long term AMD GPU user, i can say that in the days of the Catalyst driver (HD 5, 6 and 7 Series GPUs), it was buggy as hell and was crashing, but not to a point where it is unusable, those were minor stuff that were fixable if you had 5 mints to spare.

Now coming forward to the new Adrenaline 2020 drivers, i never had any major issues with them. I even resort to using the streaming software AMD provides in their drivers since it gives me a much better streaming performance than OBS does with my current config. On top of that while streaming i don't lose performance at all (maybe 1 or 2% while in heavy situations) since my R5 3600 can handle it.

For example, here is a link to a 4 hour stream i did yesterday:


----------



## Adam Krazispeed (May 25, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> I'll be honest
> 
> When i got the RX 5700 XT 50th Anniversary at launch it was a crap show and performance was a hit or miss. It just didn't work well at all for me. Ditched it and kept my RTX 2070
> 
> Fast forward to now and i went back with a AIB RX 5700 flashed to XT and it has been running rock solid. Drivers have definitely improved since launch still some bugs but not as bad.


need to run dx12 too 5700 xt is much faster in dx12. iv tested it, i have 3x 5700s ( 2x are XTs and 1x is a 5700 flashed with XT bios, ) i had never had any issues, tho i always fresh install windows on even a NVME drive swap/upgrade.

GPU upgrades are a must to fully re-install OS, DDU DOES NOT WORK 100% (Display Driver Uninstaller)

BEST IS TO FRESH INSTALL OS EVERY TIME U ADD OR UPGRADE OR SWAP ANYTHING, AND YES EVEN RAM TOO!!! AND CPU, GPU HDD, SSD ETC!!!!


----------



## jayseearr (Jun 7, 2020)

My experience with AMD Vega 56 (not only their drivers but software as well) has been so bad that getting a 5700 is out of the question for me. I'm looking to upgrade very soon (definitely to nvidida and most likely to a 2060ko). I think it's great what AMD has done recently (kicking a** in the CPU department) and gaining some market share in the GPU department. But in my personal opinion based on my personal experience AMD has a long way to go in the software and driver department. I would never recommend anyone  to buy a AMD gpu and i will not be buying one at least for a couple generations until they get things figured out. Saving a few dollars is not worth it for me if i have to worry about troubleshooting constantly and have a unstable experience.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 7, 2020)

Adam Krazispeed said:


> BEST IS TO FRESH INSTALL OS EVERY TIME U ADD OR UPGRADE OR SWAP ANYTHING, AND YES EVEN RAM TOO!!! AND CPU, GPU HDD, SSD ETC!!!!


had three different cards on my current OS installation and igpu in between them.



ratirt said:


> I think if there were major drivers issues all of us would have experienced it.


or,or.....
amd would've been able to reproduce them or seen them reported by many users and put them on the release notes for every driver......

*



			Known Issues
		
Click to expand...

*


> Radeon RX Vega Series and Radeon VII graphics products may experience performance drops when Performance Metrics Overlay is open while a game is running.
> 
> Some game titles may experience hitching when Instant Replay is enabled on Radeon RX 5000 series system configurations.
> 
> ...



it's been 11 months and they still have no idea what is going on with these drivers crashing,hanging,random blackscreen and stutter.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jun 7, 2020)

So far with the 2 games I completed with my Sapphire PULSE RX 5700 XT I haven't had any issues with drivers or in-game really other then game bugs like I experienced in the story in Mafia II Definitive Edition on the last mission where I could in one try hide behind sometimes and on other tries I couldn't I was shoot though but that's a game issue not graphics card issue.

So far I completed Saint's Row The Third: Mastered and Mafia II: Definitive Edition just on "The Betrayl of Jimmy" at the moment then the 2 other DLC's will follow when I feel like it.

I am not in a gamering mood these days it's really sad so I am not sure what games to game.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jun 7, 2020)

jayseearr said:


> I'm looking to upgrade very soon (definitely to nvidida and most likely to a 2060ko)


I can wholly recommend avoiding the 2060KO. I just dumped my 2060FE because 6GB isn't enough, it really should have been an 8GB card from the start. Also, the RTX performance of the 2060 and 2060Super are so bad that you won't run RTX games on either card.

Get a 1660 Super, or get a 2070 Super. Everything in between is pointless unless you switch teams and go to AMD.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 7, 2020)

jayseearr said:


> I'm looking to upgrade very soon



Wait for September, new GPU's coming from AMD and Nvidia.


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 7, 2020)

P4-630 said:


> Wait for September, new GPU's coming from AMD.


FTFY.

Nvidia isn't known (4Q?) amd is supposedly September.


----------



## jayseearr (Jun 7, 2020)

^


Chrispy_ said:


> I can wholly recommend avoiding the 2060KO. I just dumped my 2060FE because 6GB isn't enough, it really should have been an 8GB card from the start. Also, the RTX performance of the 2060 and 2060Super are so bad that you won't run RTX games on either card.
> 
> Get a 1660 Super, or get a 2070 Super. Everything in between is pointless unless you switch teams and go to AMD.



I rarely even use 4gb for my applications let alone 6 but that is definitely something worth thinking about nonetheless. I agree it probably should have been 8gb card to start with. Anyhow, I'm not set on it yet, I just want a reliable graphics card that is low maintenance and can handle 1080p at 120-144hz. The 8gb my vega 56 has now looks great on paper but the truth of the matter is I don't NEED that much. I don't ask much from the GPU but one thing i do ask is that works the way it's supposed to when i want it to. In my case specifically, I would gladly trade 2gb of VRAM for a smoother experience and a card with drivers and software that actually do their job.  Anyhow, thanks for the input/recommendation. Also thanks for the heads up as well P4-630, I will look into that.


----------



## NoJuan999 (Jun 7, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Also, the RTX performance of the 2060 and 2060Super are so bad that you won't run RTX games on either card.
> 
> Get a 1660 Super, or get a 2070 Super. Everything in between is pointless unless you switch teams and go to AMD.


I game at 1080p / 60 Hz (AAA single player games) and I am very happy with the performance of my MSI 2060 Super Armor OC.
And I have played games with Raytracing enabled (Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Control and Metro Exodus) and the performance was exactly what I expected at 1080p on Ultra settings (60+ to 90 fps).


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jun 7, 2020)

NoJuan999 said:


> I game at 1080p / 60 Hz (AAA single player games) and I am very happy with the performance of my MSI 2060 Super Armor OC.
> And I have played games with Raytracing enabled (Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Control and Metro Exodus) and the performance was exactly what I expected at 1080p on Ultra settings (60+ to 90 fps).


Oh wow, I guess you _could _game at 1080p60 on a $420 card.
Do you not have a 144Hz 2560x1440 monitor though? They start at like $260 and are a prerequisite for expensive graphics cards _in my opinion_.


----------



## NoJuan999 (Jun 7, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Oh wow, I guess you _could _game at 1080p60 on a $420 card.
> Do you not have a 144Hz 2560x1440 monitor though? They start at like $260 and are a prerequisite for expensive graphics cards _in my opinion_.


I don't. 
Since I only play single player games and do video encoding (to stream to my 1080p HDTVs), I just haven't felt the need to upgrade my monitor. 
I will eventually buy one but for now I'm still very happy with my current 1080p / 60 Hz Monitor.


----------



## puma99dk| (Jun 7, 2020)

I forgot to add I game at 4K and I get around 50-60fps in Mafia II Definitive Edition and in Saints Row The Third Remastered I did close and sometimes above 60fps with all details maxed out.

There isn't a lot of new not remastered games that I game at the moment.


----------



## A Computer Guy (Jun 7, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Is this issue epidemic, overblown, or somewhere in-between?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I got a reference model for $280 newegg special.  Almost ditched it after a few months.

Various issues included full screen green tint, full screen magenta tint, signal loss after wake from sleep (black screen), and spontaneous reboot.  Also using Google Chrome hardware acceleration was an issue.  Started getting increasingly louder over several months then, when I did my custom loop and put a GPU block on,  I found the thermal pads were junk (drying, cracking, and flaking away).

After some driver updates earlier this year and turning off "Radeon Enchanced Sync" issues seem to be resolved as well as the GPU block reduced thermals and noise.  Now running smoothly but afraid of driver updates.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> or,or.....
> amd would've been able to reproduce them or seen them reported by many users and put them on the release notes for every driver......





cucker tarlson said:


> it's been 11 months and they still have no idea what is going on with these drivers crashing,hanging,random blackscreen and stutter.


Sure, it has been recognized by users that these black screens occur. Maybe AMD put them in the list of "known issues" not to ignore customers since as far as I know some of these were never replicate. 11 month and never been fixed,. Maybe it's not a driver issue per say? Well I don't have an issue with my 5600XT really don't know what to tell ya. I don't have issues and I'm sorry for those who have them.
My issue, as you already know was the PSU. or maybe you don't know. random black screen in Unigine and other games. Anyway no driver issues here.
Oh there is one issue. CSGO when I have image sharpening on, sometimes the FPS drops to 30FPS then go back to normal after some time. Switch it off problem gone. Other games manage to go with this feature on. That's basically all issues I'v encountered.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I don't have issues and I'm sorry for those who have them.


you're getting closer to the right attitude.
I'm not getting issues but many are as has been acknowledeged by amd who are working on them - this seems right to me.
you can't call playing a selection of games on one sample an investigation.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 8, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> I'll join you so you don't feel alone.



I'd join, because I DO enjoy my card, but I did have issues so it'd be kind of dishonest.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jun 8, 2020)

The 5700XT in these systems ( same card ) has been trouble free for about 6 months. Haven't been able to reproduce any of the bugs I've read about....... I still believe these issues persist though with certain hardware configurations.










						I scored 9 012 in Time Spy
					

AMD Ryzen 5 2600, AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




					www.3dmark.com
				












						I scored 10 060 in Time Spy
					

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




					www.3dmark.com


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 8, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> The 5700XT in these systems ( same card ) has been trouble free for about 6 months. Haven't been able to reproduce any of the bugs I've read about....... I still believe these issues persist though with certain hardware configurations.




From when I dug into it, it seemed more like either certain bios revisions or certain early die spinnings.  Either way the issues are rapidly dying down for sure.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> you're getting closer to the right attitude.
> I'm not getting issues but many are as has been acknowledeged by amd who are working on them - this seems right to me.
> you can't call playing a selection of games on one sample an investigation.


And yet it is still weird some have the issues some don't even though they use same drivers. Maybe @R-T-B is right with the bios stuff. Although, my 5600XT pulse doesn't have a new Bios. I just OC'ed the card to mach the specification from core 1750Mhz and mem 1500Mhz. to 1750/1750 Mhz respectively.  
BTW your attitude hasn't changed. You always wanna be the "know it all" man and mock others.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jun 8, 2020)

I've even noticed with certain brands like gigabyte it being much worse or seeming to be much worse with their cards vs Sapphire. Not trying to call out any brands specifically I just found it odd that a specific card from gigabyte has way more negative feedback pertaining to this issue vs Sapphire pulse.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> And yet it is still weird some have the issues some don't even though they use same drivers.


yes,it's usually the case with driver problems.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Although, my 5600XT pulse doesn't have a new Bios.



5600XT is newer than the 5700 series, which is where I see most issues reported, but dunno.  Done messing with it now that I discovered I can make it work with a powerplay profile in my case.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Although, my 5600XT pulse doesn't have a new Bios. I just OC'ed the card to mach the specification from core 1750Mhz and mem 1500Mhz. to 1750/1750 Mhz respectively.


see.unlike so many people.
yet you can't understand how the issue can happen on one machine but doesn't on the other.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> see.unlike so many people.
> yet you can't understand how the issue can happen on one machine but doesn't on the other.


If it was a driver, all people using same brand of a card should experience it but that is not the case. I'm skeptic about this driver issue thing since I've tried it myself to just be sure what people are talking about. Well, not sure what they are talking about.


R-T-B said:


> 5600XT is newer than the 5700 series, which is where I see most issues reported, but dunno. Done messing with it now that I discovered I can make it work with a powerplay profile in my case.


Sure it is but there is a Bios update for my card. It has been released before the adjustments to the Bios and the clocks. I didn't do any Bios update just OC and it is working as it should. It is a pretty good card the 5600XT and it's damn quiet so as cool. I do profile as well at least for demanding games and new ones. It helps in some cases (like CSGO in my case but I play 4k)


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> If it was a driver, all people using same brand of a card should experience it


no cause they're running other hardware and drivers and even bioses as you pointed out.



ratirt said:


> I'm skeptic about this driver issue thing since I've tried it myself to just be sure what people are talking about. Well, not sure what they are talking about.


see,that's the bias you're not aware of.


My late,smaller turing never died so I don't know what all this fuss about early,big turings dying cause of vram was about.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> no cause they're running other hardware and drivers.


The drivers for graphics are same for 5600xt or any other same series cards. The newest driver there is and all have the same. The other counterparts may be different in builds people have but if this is causing problems, is it really graphics driver issue? I had a problem with my PSU and had to buy a new one. I don't think that is graphics driver related more like hardware. Question is how many of these "driver issues" customers argue about may have come from hardware just like in my case. I know we had this conversation and I've been accused of fanboizm towards AMD because I couldn't acknowledge the so-called "Driver Issues" problem with the arguments people were giving. I got some background of my own now and it seems far, far stretched than the truth shows about the drivers.
For instance the TUF AIB Asus heatsink. Was badly designed and overheated without addition mod to the screws and spacers tightening the heatsink touching the vram and chip correctly.
Explicitly i remember people blaming drivers for this even though there were hundreds of videos explaining the situation. Not sure if it has been fixed by ASUS already or not.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> The drivers for graphics are same for 5600xt or any other same series cards. The newest driver there is and all have the same. The other counterparts may be different in builds people have but if this is causing problems, is it really graphics driver issue? I had a problem with my PSU and had to buy a new one. I don't think that is graphics driver related more like hardware. Question is how many of these "driver issues" customers argue about may have come from hardware just like in my case. I know we had this conversation and I've been accused of fanboizm towards AMD because I couldn't acknowledge the so-called "Driver Issues" problem with the arguments people were giving. I got some background of my own now and it seems far, far stretched than the truth shows about the drivers.
> For instance the TUF AIB Asus heatsink. Was badly designed and overheated without addition mod to the screws and spacers tightening the heatsink touching the vram and chip correctly.
> Explicitly i remember people blaming drivers for this even though there were hundreds of videos explaining the situation. Not sure if it has been fixed by ASUS already or not.


okay.last time.I highlighted the parts you're missing






how much of those scenarios did you reproduce with one 5600xt ? a 0.0000001%


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 8, 2020)

You can't write off the uptick in reports of issues to people just mixing the wrong hardware.

At some point, the uptick is caused by the card, not the things surrounding it.  Otherwise we'd have seen the same rate of reports with other AMD cards and we just don't.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

but it's good to know there's trouble-free systems,or I should say use scenarios, too.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> but it's good to know there's trouble-free systems,or I should say use scenarios, too.


Knowing the societies now, there will never be problem free system. There will always be a jackass that would have a problem or a different point of view.
Report says may occur in each paragraph. Like I said AMD had to address these in the known issues section meaning it happened to some users but it is not necessarily because of the driver. I was getting driver crashes with my broke PSU (black screens occur) . After swapping it, no driver crashes so how about that?
You still want me to admit that there is a problem or what is it? I don't have problems with my graphics sorry. Maybe those who picked the card should also take a closer look to the hardware they have and OS they are using? Maybe if it is old and used  up it may not work properly.


----------



## Decryptor009 (Jun 8, 2020)

I cannot use any other driver other than 20.4.2 right now.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> I cannot use any other driver other than 20.4.2 right now.


Maybe it is different with the 5700XTs. I been using 19 version (don't remember exactly) i updated the driver 2 weeks ago. same thing. No issues.
@cucker tarlson procured the list of issues. The problem with the list is, it doesn't give any strict answers to which games are having the issues. it is all some games and may which isn't anything concrete. It is all random so basically nobody knows.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> @cucker tarlson procured the list of issues.


No.Just no.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> No.Just no.


We all know it is from AMD's site. Chill the "f" out. you brought it up and it is ok. Just saying it doesn't give anything concrete in terms which game or anything, it is all random and may or may not.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> it is all random and may or may not.


maybe that's why it's taken them a year to solve a portion of them.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> that's why it's taken them a year to solve a portion of them.


Whatever man. I don't have issues. Sorry to disappoint your expectations towards AMD driver issues. or maybe... you know what. I'm not gonna say it because it will fuel you even more. You say there are driver issues (you didn't check it yourself) I say there aren't (checked myself) let's leave it at that.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Whatever man. I don't have issues.Sorry to disappoint your expectations


please stay on topic once.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> please stay on topic once.


I am. Driver issues. haven't noticed anything of such with my 5600xt. Maybe 5700XT are totally different and have these issues.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I am. Driver issues. haven't noticed anything of such with my 5600xt. Maybe 5700XT are totally different and have these issues.


no.I mean stop your carefree personal trips as if that was permitted here.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> no.I mean stop your carefree personal trips as if that was permitted here.


So you are saying I'm not allowed as an owner of a Sapphire pulse 5600XT say in the regard of this topic and you are? 
It is not personal for me it is just what i have found out with my graphics. Not sure about you bro and maybe you are speaking for yourself.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> So you are saying I'm not allowed as an owner of a Sapphire pulse 5600XT say in the regard of this topic and you are?
> It is not personal for me it is just what i have found out with my graphics. Not sure about you bro and maybe you are speaking for yourself.


no,you're not allowed to make it about me vs you.


----------



## jayseearr (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker stop wasting your time on this guy. when AMD themselves admit that there are widespread driver issues, yet we have this guy claiming those issues are non-existent because they themselves didn't experience it, it becomes quite clear you're dealing with a special kind of ignorance. Some people can get wheel kicked in the mouth by the truth but still won't understand if it doesn't align with their broken, boxed in opinion.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> You say there are driver issues (you didn't check it yourself)


I did.On the list.
Which I linked not "procured".



jayseearr said:


> cucker stop wasting your time on this guy. when AMD themselves admit that there are widespread driver issues, yet we have this guy claiming those issues are non-existent because they themselves didn't experience it, it becomes quite clear you're dealing with a special kind of ignorance. Some people can get wheel kicked in the mouth by the truth but still won't understand if it doesn't align with their broken, boxed in opinion.


I'm still calm and collected trying to point him to the source.
he's not fighting agaist me as he would like to think,he's fighting with all those people who reported issues telling them they're wrong.
no matter how personal he tries to make it this list isn't going to go anywhere cause of our discussion.


----------



## Decryptor009 (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I am. Driver issues. haven't noticed anything of such with my 5600xt. Maybe 5700XT are totally different and have these issues.


Your personal experience of something being good is shutting down other peoples experiences.

20.4.2 is a good driver for me, but i had a black screen crash yesterday, first in 7 days...
Not a perfect driver. I also own a Gigabyte 5700-XT so my issues are in line with other peoples findings and general trend understanding of issues.

It's not too much of a problem for me because i have no need for another driver right now.


----------



## jayseearr (Jun 8, 2020)

Hey guys, my stomach is full. That must mean that there is nobody starving anywhere in the world right? Isn't that how things work?


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

if only.
I wonder why when there's a new thread with sb having an issue with their computer there's not a worldwide recall every time.



Decryptor009 said:


> Your personal experience of something being good is shutting down other peoples experiences.
> 
> 20.4.2 is a good driver for me, but i had a black screen crash yesterday, first in 7 days...
> Not a perfect driver. I also own a Gigabyte 5700-XT so my issues are in line with other peoples findings and general trend understanding of issues.
> ...


has it been better over time ?


----------



## Decryptor009 (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> if only
> 
> 
> has it been better over time ?


Yes since removing MSI Afterburner, not using minitoring software at all and enabling fan control in AMD driver, much more stable.

Oh and setting the power plan to performance.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

jayseearr said:


> cucker stop wasting your time on this guy. when AMD themselves admit that there are widespread driver issues, yet we have this guy claiming those issues are non-existent because they themselves didn't experience it, it becomes quite clear you're dealing with a special kind of ignorance. Some people can get wheel kicked in the mouth by the truth but still won't understand if it doesn't align with their broken, boxed in opinion.


You are a waste of time. Don't have anything productive to say about the drivers and the cards then just zip it.


cucker tarlson said:


> I did.On the list.
> Which I linked not "procured".


you procured from AMD's page by linking it. Dude stop making fuss around the vocabulary.

For your information, I'm not fighting with you nor AMD nor anybody. I just shared my experience and that's basically it. AMD listing known issues means it has happened and they are investigating it. You would rather look what has been fixed so far. I'm surprised that it is not possible here to share any sort of experience on this page. People will call you a waste of time or mock you saying there is and I must have these as well. That's extremely rude in my book. Our way or the highway. so damn nice. 



Decryptor009 said:


> Yes since removing MSI Afterburner, not using minitoring software at all and enabling fan control in AMD driver, much more stable.
> 
> Oh and setting the power plan to performance.


I've heard this Afterburner causing trouble or using excessive number of monitoring utilities. Some people here reported this but with other monitoring software not Afterburner necessarily.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> You are a waste of time. Don't have anything productive to say about the drivers and the cards then just zip it.
> 
> you procured from AMD's page by linking it. Dude stop making fuss around the vocabulary.
> 
> ...


well,the sharing part is true.
but you forgot "I therefore dismissed other people's experiences".


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> well,the sharing part is true.
> but you forgot "I therefore dismissed other people's experiences".


I shall do the same with your experience in any regard or subject. case closed.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I shall do the same with your experience in any regard or subject


Ohhhhoohooo this gets better every second....
you already did point all those people who reported away from the driver so it's nothing new for me you'd write something like that.


----------



## jayseearr (Jun 8, 2020)

Fan control is definitely something to watch out for. The software loves to randomly change my settings and stick my GPU on 0rpm mode where it's essentially stuck in idle mode.(particularly after driver upates) For me personally that's just one of the many things within radeon's software that has caused functionality/stability issues in the past.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> Ohhhhoohooo this gets better every second....
> you already did point all those people who reported away from the driver so it's nothing new for me you'd write something like that.


I didn't point anyone. Just said i can't see nor can replicate the driver issues and then, as always, you came running to express how displeased you are. Also nothing new for me. 



jayseearr said:


> Fan control is definitely something to watch out for. The software loves to randomly change my settings and stick my GPU on 0rpm mode where it's essentially stuck in idle mode.(particularly after driver upates) For me personally that's just one of the many things within radeon's software that has caused functionality/stability issues in the past.


Why don't you fill in your specs so that everybody knows which GPU or software you are talking about and hardware you are using? This can be helpful unless your focus here is different?.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I didn't point anyone. Just said i *can't see nor can replicate* the driver issues


this is fine.but your conclusions from that are too far.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> this is fine.but your conclusions from that are too far.


Are they? Not sure what do you base this my conclusion are too far. A lot of people on this forum have same conclusions.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Are they? Not sure what do you base this my conclusion are too far. A lot of people on this forum have same conclusions.


and a lot are still having issues.

I'm basing it on official AMD stance.


----------



## jayseearr (Jun 8, 2020)

> jayseearr said:
> Fan control is definitely something to watch out for. The software loves to randomly change my settings and stick my GPU on 0rpm mode where it's essentially stuck in idle mode.(particularly after driver upates) For me personally that's just one of the many things within radeon's software that has caused functionality/stability issues in the past.


Why don't you fill in your specs so that everybody knows which GPU or software you are talking about and hardware you are using? This can be helpful unless your focus here is different?. 


No thanks, I think my last post telling people with issues to keep their eyes on the 0rpm fan setting was helpful enough. Certainly more helpful than anything you have posted in this entire thread anyway. AMD has multiple error logs and reports from me that's good enough for me. My system is stable right now I didn't come here seeking help I simply came here to join the discussion and offer my input on how my personal experience has been as it pertains to the topic. THAT's my focus here.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> and a lot are still having issues.
> 
> I'm basing it on official AMD stance.


Sure you do. BTW there's a new driver released 20.5.1.


jayseearr said:


> No thanks, I think my last post telling people with issues to keep their eyes on the 0rpm fan setting was helpful enough. Certainly more helpful than anything you have posted in this entire thread anyway. AMD has multiple error logs and reports from me that's good enough for me. My system is stable right now I didn't come here seeking help I simply came here to join the discussion and offer my input on how my personal experience has been as it pertains to the topic. THAT's my focus here.


Sure the 0 RPM is extremely helpful. Mine has 0 RPM too especially when idle since that's my cards feature. I don't know what your card is like and what soft you are using so hard to justify your claim with 0RPM problem. Not sure if that is an issue. Nice that you have a focus. So, since my experience has been different than yours, meaning I shouldn't be posting here or what is it that you are trying to say?


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Sure you do. BTW there's a new driver released 20.5.1.


that's where the list is from.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> that's where the list is from.


Why didn't you mentioned new driver? forgot or focused on something else? 
The funny thing is. When you compare previous release it says some games and in the new driver it goes to certain game (destiny 2) for instance if you compare known issues from previous release and this new one fixed. The last one is a squeaker.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Why didn't you mentioned new driver? forgot or focused on something else?


the hell you're talking about.
I took the latest as I'm supposed to.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> the hell you're talking about.
> I took the latest as I'm supposed to.


Yeah but I didn't know there was new driver. You didnt mentioned the driver version. How was I supposed to know. It would have been nice of you to mention the driver version. Forget about it man.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 8, 2020)

No way is this thread still going as is.

You have Carlton the 2070 owner and most vocal neg man, a couple of actual owners one of which, one is involved in arguing with said informed guy that his works, and is getting stick for it.
Another who fixed most issues and is glossed over and loads moaning about everything from Vega 56 to big Navi.

Useful not.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 8, 2020)

Stahp.


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> No way is this thread still going as is.
> 
> You have Carlton the 2070 owner and most vocal neg man, a couple of actual owners one of which, one is involved in arguing with said informed guy that his works, and is getting stick for it.
> Another who fixed most issues and is glossed over and loads moaning about everything from Vega 56 to big Navi.
> ...


Well........ the reality is that anecdotes are pretty useless here. We all (should) know that this doesn't effect everyone. In fact, I would imagine this effects less than 5% of Navi users... likely half that or less. HOWEVER, that value is still, seemingly, A LOT more than typical complaints and has been going on for some time now. This started with Navi's release, should have gotten better with Adrenalin 2020 months later, but didn't (in fact it got worse). Although we see some fix notes about black screen and other issues and they are working hard on it, AMD still clearly lists it as a "Known Issue" and has been listed like that (among other black screen issues in specific titles that have/have not been resolved) for a year.

Clearly the truth lay somewhere between... 'it isn't happening to me therefore it is resolved' to 'zOMG the drivers BLOW'..... lol.

There really isn't any getting around, currently, users are more likely to run into issues with AMD drivers than Nvidia. Is that 1% to 2%? Who knows... but I feel confident stating this.


R-T-B said:


> Stahp.


Report instead of adding another post is likely better. 

That said, the discussion is on topic, is it not?  This is all about the back and forth about drivers... who ditched it, who didn't... etc.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 8, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Well........ the reality is that anecdotes are pretty useless here. We all (should) know that this doesn't effect everyone. In fact, I would imagine this effects less than 5% of Navi users... likely half that or less. HOWEVER, that value is still, seemingly, A LOT more than typical complaints and has been going on for some time now. This started with Navi's release, should have gotten better with Adrenalin 2020 months later, but didn't (in fact it got worse). Although we see some fix notes about black screen and other issues and they are working hard on it, AMD still clearly lists it as a "Known Issue" and has been listed like that (among other black screen issues in specific titles that have/have not been resolved) for a year.
> 
> Clearly the truth lay somewhere between... 'it isn't happening to me therefore it is resolved' to 'zOMG the drivers BLOW'..... lol.
> 
> ...


At page 17 I would expect more input from actual owners who actually either have a problem they need help resolving or to report that they indeed returned their card.
Tangential moaners need not apply.

Not much of that going on though.


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> At page 17 I would expect more input from actual owners who actually either have a problem they need help resolving or to report that they indeed returned their card.
> Tangential moaners need not apply.
> 
> Not much of that going on though.


Tangential cheerleaders also need not apply then, right?


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jun 8, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> That said, the discussion is on topic, is it not?  This is all about the back and forth about drivers... who ditched it, who didn't... etc.




I think if the title was changed to how many Nvidia owners think Navi still has problems it would more fit the recent conversations in this thread.


----------



## Nεøn (Jun 8, 2020)

I got my XFX RX 5700 XT Triple Dissipation 8GB GDDR6 last Thursday and I have to say coming from an R9 380 4G it is a blast. I got some problems with the newest Radeon Driver but just with some special setting in Warzone. I am currently on 20.2.2 which works fine but i did not test Warzone in this specific settings until now so maybe it even works with the 20.4.2.

But i have to say you cannot find much about this GPU maybe because it is new (late april). It is supposed to have 1925MHz core clock (Boost) but somehow MSI shows me 2100MHz which is a bit odd but whatever.
Also temps are really good. Under full load i never got more than 70°C even without a custom fan curve 

So  I am pretty happy with the card and I think i will keep it


----------



## Decryptor009 (Jun 8, 2020)

Nεøn said:


> I got my XFX RX 5700 XT Triple Dissipation 8GB GDDR6 last Thursday and I have to say coming from an R9 380 4G it is a blast. I got some problems with the newest Radeon Driver but just with some special setting in Warzone. I am currently on 20.2.2 which works fine but i did not test Warzone in this specific settings until now so maybe it even works with the 20.4.2.
> 
> But i have to say you cannot find much about this GPU maybe because it is new (late april). It is supposed to have 1925MHz core clock (Boost) but somehow MSI shows me 2100MHz which is a bit odd but whatever.
> Also temps are really good. Under full load i never got more than 70°C even without a custom fan curve
> ...


Yes my card is reported at 2010mhz but will hit 2050 or exceed that.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

Nεøn said:


> I got my XFX RX 5700 XT Triple Dissipation 8GB GDDR6 last Thursday and I have to say coming from an R9 380 4G it is a blast. I got some problems with the newest Radeon Driver but just with some special setting in Warzone. I am currently on 20.2.2 which works fine but i did not test Warzone in this specific settings until now so maybe it even works with the 20.4.2.
> 
> But i have to say you cannot find much about this GPU maybe because it is new (late april). It is supposed to have 1925MHz core clock (Boost) but somehow MSI shows me 2100MHz which is a bit odd but whatever.
> Also temps are really good. Under full load i never got more than 70°C even without a custom fan curve
> ...


There is a new driver release 20.5.1. Maybe you should consider updating.


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 8, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I think if the title was changed to how many Nvidia owners think Navi still has problems it would more fit the recent conversations in this thread.


Good point. We can also change it to how many AMD owners that don't have Navi believe it isn't a problem. 

I digress.


----------



## jayseearr (Jun 8, 2020)

^That's not something a new customer shouldn't even have to worry about in my opinion. You mentioned you're running on 20.2 and aren't sure bout 20.4? If you JUST got your card last Thursday, ideally you should have automatically updated to the most recent recommended or optional drivers and fired it up right? The average consumer isn't worried about how their GPU is binned or memory frequencies or any of that they just want to plug the GPU into the pci/psu, download the drivers and software, set to auto update and not have to worry about it again. With that said, I'm glad your experience is going well so far and i hope it continues that way after you've had some time to collect some actual data


----------



## 95Viper (Jun 8, 2020)

Quit the arguing and off topic BS.

Thank You and Have a Good Day


----------



## wiak (Jun 8, 2020)

1. overclocking
2. bad power supply + 1
3. set radeon software profile to anything that's not standard profile
4. PCIe 4.0 issues?

this is probably the reasons why people have issues

i have a 5700 XT Red Dragon, i have had no issues with black screen, blue screen or any crash, ive had mine since christmas

case in point, hardwareunboxed has had no issues either, soo i suspect it might be people thinking overclocking leads to no problems, given the fact that overclocking always lead to unstable system, why? i know because i have tried, some programs might work fine, but others like video encoding will crash, latest ryzen dont overclock well anway soo

5700 XT 8GB Red Dragon
Corsair AX 850W from 2011 (its 10 years next year 
Ryzen 1700X with noctua cooler
Gigabyte B450 ITX
3x Dell U2412M 1080p (DP)


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

wiak said:


> 1. overclocking
> 2. bad power supply + 1
> 3. set radeon software profile to anything that's not standard profile
> 4. PCIe 4.0 issues?
> ...


I had the AXi Corsair 760W and that was my problem. It's been with me around the time you have yours. I would suggest changing it as soon as possible. The PSU has damaged my vega 64 and didn't run OK with 5600XT. Even one of the 5500XT's I bought for my TR's had a problem with that old PSU.


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 8, 2020)

wiak said:


> i have a 5700 XT Red Dragon, i have had no issues with black screen, blue screen or any crash, ive had mine since christmas


SUrely some of it is... however the bigger issue is at stock and black screens still being a problem.

Glad yours worked!


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> SUrely some of it is... however the bigger issue is at stock and black screens still being a problem.
> 
> Glad yours worked!


My blackscreen where due to the PSU. It started with Vega and had few with 5600XT, the 5500XT (one of them) didn't even boot to windows. Bought SeaSonic 750W Gold and no problems since.


----------



## wiak (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> My blackscreen where due to the PSU. It started with Vega and had few with 5600XT, the 5500XT (one of them) didn't even boot to windows. Bought SeaSonic 750W Gold and no problems since.


it seems radeons are more sensitive to voltage or ripple variations


----------



## Nεøn (Jun 8, 2020)

jayseearr said:


> ^That's not something a new customer shouldn't even have to worry about in my opinion. You mentioned you're running on 20.2 and aren't sure bout 20.4? If you JUST got your card last Thursday, ideally you should have automatically updated to the most recent recommended or optional drivers and fired it up right? The average consumer isn't worried about how their GPU is binned or memory frequencies or any of that they just want to plug the GPU into the pci/psu, download the drivers and software, set to auto update and not have to worry about it again. With that said, I'm glad your experience is going well so far and i hope it continues that way after you've had some time to collect some actual data


Yes i put the card in and installed the newest drivers which is indeed the 20.4.2 (non beta) and I did not had any problems the card worked right away and it ran everything i tested. But then i activated SSA and Ambient Occlusion and my PC would crash when playing or starting a match but only and specifically in Warzone every other game would ran completly fine so its not that big of a deal. I will update later this day and try it again without SSA or Ambient Occlusion  It even says ingame you should have 2x TSMAA ?Filmic? on when using SSA and AO because of flickering.

By the way why is the XFX Triple Dissipation not in the GPU Database? There is like nothing about this card going around like nobody knows it really exists even tho it is know nearly 2 months "old"


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> My blackscreen where due to the PSU. It started with Vega and had few with 5600XT, the 5500XT (one of them) didn't even boot to windows. Bought SeaSonic 750W Gold and no problems since.


Cool. Sounds unrelated to this, however. If the fix was that easy, we would have seen that propagate the web over the past year.



wiak said:


> it seems radeons are more sensitive to voltage or ripple variations


If that were true, wouldn't we see users with potato PSUs having this issue?


----------



## jayseearr (Jun 8, 2020)

So you installed the recommended driver and immediately started experiencing issues in your practical applications? The writing is on the wall already my friend. that sounds like a issue that is probably driver or software related. All the bells and whistles in that AMD software sure do look pretty but it's kind of pointless when alot of the options either don't work or are known to cause issues with many hardware configs. There are some fundamental issues with their software that are just as bad as the driver issues if not worse in terms of creating system instability. Keep the card if you want man i wish you good luck either way!


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 8, 2020)

jayseearr said:


> So you installed the recommended driver and immediately started experiencing issues in your practical applications? The writing is on the wall already my friend. that sounds like a issue that is probably driver or software related. All the bells and whistles in that AMD software sure do look pretty but it's kind of pointless when alot of the options either don't work or are known to cause issues with many hardware configs. There are some fundamental issues with their software that are just as bad as the driver issues if not worse in terms of creating system instability. Keep the card if you want man i wish you good luck either way!


You should quote who you are talking to.... a couple of times I've looked at your posts having no idea who you are responding to.


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 8, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Report instead of adding another post is likely better.



Yes, you are right.  My brain fails late at night though and I resort to memes.  My apologies.  Don't look in the lounge, I shit in there at night regularly and call it a post.

Still, I will admit I can/should do better.


----------



## Decryptor009 (Jun 8, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> Yes, you are right.  My brain fails late at night though and I resort to memes.  My apologies.  Don't look in the lounge, I shit in there at night regularly and call it a post.
> 
> Still, I will admit I can/should do better.


You sexy person....

See my avatar.


----------



## ratirt (Jun 8, 2020)

wiak said:


> it seems radeons are more sensitive to voltage or ripple variations


That was also my guess. Older PSU's lose some of their efficiency with time which causes voltage fluctuations. Considering the 5000 series cards being maxed out (almost), these fluctuations are not welcome.


----------



## A Computer Guy (Jun 8, 2020)

jayseearr said:


> Fan control is definitely something to watch out for. The software loves to randomly change my settings and stick my GPU on 0rpm mode where it's essentially stuck in idle mode.(particularly after driver upates) For me personally that's just one of the many things within radeon's software that has caused functionality/stability issues in the past.



At one point with the AMD drivers I remember having a zero rpm issue as well both with rx560 and rx5700.  I kept trying to turn off 0 rpm mode but some how it didn't take or when it finally did it didn't seem to survive reboot.



EarthDog said:


> SUrely some of it is... however the bigger issue is at stock and black screens still being a problem.
> 
> Glad yours worked!



The black screen problem is really what almost drove me to the point of ditching the card because it made my system completely unusable.  I'm pretty sure a driver update fixed it for me but I had also been trying a few other things so I can't be sure if a driver update or combination of things resolved my issue.


----------



## jayseearr (Jun 8, 2020)

A Computer Guy said:


> At one point with the AMD drivers I remember having a zero rpm issue as well both with rx560 and rx5700.  I kept trying to turn off 0 rpm mode but some how it didn't take or when it finally did it didn't seem to survive reboot.



This is a problem that still persists to this day and it's been well over a year that it has been a known issue.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jun 8, 2020)

Nεøn said:


> I got my XFX RX 5700 XT Triple Dissipation 8GB GDDR6 last Thursday and I have to say coming from an R9 380 4G it is a blast. I got some problems with the newest Radeon Driver but just with some special setting in Warzone. I am currently on 20.2.2 which works fine but i did not test Warzone in this specific settings until now so maybe it even works with the 20.4.2.
> 
> But i have to say you cannot find much about this GPU maybe because it is new (late april). It is supposed to have 1925MHz core clock (Boost) but somehow MSI shows me 2100MHz which is a bit odd but whatever.
> Also temps are really good. Under full load i never got more than 70°C even without a custom fan curve
> ...





Decryptor009 said:


> Yes my card is reported at 2010mhz but will hit 2050 or exceed that.


That’s because the boosts were increased awhile.ago via drivers.  Just a little free extra performance everyone got.


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## Decryptor009 (Jun 8, 2020)

ratirt said:


> That was also my guess. Older PSU's lose some of their efficiency with time which causes voltage fluctuations. Considering the 5000 series cards being maxed out (almost), these fluctuations are not welcome.


My PSU was bought at the exact same time i bought the 5700-XT, they arrived in the same box from Overclockers.co.uk


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## EarthDog (Jun 8, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> My PSU was bought at the exact same time i bought the 5700-XT, they arrived in the same box from Overclockers.co.uk


It's a bad guess (what you replied to).  If it was that easy, loads of people would have resolved this issue with a new/better PSU... and it hasn't worked out that way.


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## ratirt (Jun 9, 2020)

Decryptor009 said:


> My PSU was bought at the exact same time i bought the 5700-XT, they arrived in the same box from Overclockers.co.uk


I'm talking about my case not yours. I bought mine and i got even better performance (unigine) vs the older PSU. Same settings, same OC I just changed the PSU.



EarthDog said:


> It's a bad guess (what you replied to).  If it was that easy, loads of people would have resolved this issue with a new/better PSU... and it hasn't worked out that way.


Dont laugh Dog. I'm serious. I'm gonna post if I still have the photos on my PC somewhere. Not by much but higher score and higher lower FPS. I did it with Unigine.


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## cucker tarlson (Jun 9, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I'm talking about my case not yours. I bought mine and i got even better performance (unigine) vs the older PSU. Same settings, same OC I just changed the PSU.
> 
> 
> Dont laugh Dog. I'm serious. I'm gonna post if I still have the photos on my PC somewhere. Not by much but higher score and higher lower FPS. I did it with Unigine.


this post is hilarious.

but a bad psu can cause fps drops actually.seen that on my 290s in farcry3.although I don't know what it has to do with drivers,your problems were clearly other hardware.


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## ratirt (Jun 9, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> this post is hilarious.
> 
> but a bad psu can cause fps drops actually.seen that on my 290s in farcry3.although I don't know what it has to do with drivers,your problems were clearly other hardware.


If it can drop as you mentioned, what's so funny about it? My PSU is faulty which means power delivery is bad and that can cause the card not o function as it should. FPS drops may happen. 
As I remember correctly, the lower min FPS was higher for about 6FPS. You can't consider this as an margin of error. 6FPS in min is huge when you use the exact same card.


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## cucker tarlson (Jun 9, 2020)

ratirt said:


> If it can drop as you mentioned, what's so funny about it?


the way you talk to people is just amusing.it's offensive and hilarious at the same time.


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## Bee9 (Jun 9, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> SUrely some of it is... however the bigger issue is at stock and black screens still being a problem.


Ditched my 5700xt and also vega 56 on my windows machine. Both running at stock and constantly black screen. Driver issues for sure because both are rock solid under hackintosh. I’m running 3 acer xf270hua. Changing to a single monitor setup using a generic dell 60hz from yesteryear seems to fix the black screen issues.


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## cucker tarlson (Jun 9, 2020)

Bee9 said:


> Ditched my 5700xt and also vega 56 on my windows machine. Both running at stock and constantly black screen. Driver issues for sure because both are rock solid under hackintosh. I’m running 3 acer xf270hua. Changing to a single monitor setup using a generic dell 60hz from yesteryear seems to fix the black screen issues.


yeah multimonitor is amd's achilles heel


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## ratirt (Jun 9, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> the way you talk to people is just amusing.it's offensive and hilarious at the same time.


Offensive? What's offensive in my post? I don't know, is there a chance you read it backwards?


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## Bee9 (Jun 9, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> yeah multimonitor is amd's achilles heel


Yeah, with hardware acceleration on Chrome and it’s a guaranteed black screen. Before that, I was running 2 4k benq 60hz with a 144hz... not a pretty thing. 
Both are perfect on Mac OS catalina anyway... so I kept ‘em on my work machine and bought a 2070 super on windows machine.


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## ratirt (Jun 9, 2020)

Bee9 said:


> Yeah, with hardware acceleration on Chrome and it’s a guaranteed black screen. Before that, I was running 2 4k benq 60hz with a 144hz... not a pretty thing.
> Both are perfect on Mac OS catalina anyway... so I kept ‘em on my work machine and bought a 2070 super on windows machine.


Sometimes the configuration can be tricky. Are these two monitors adaptive, freeSync or Gsync? Maybe you've got a mix of those?


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## Bee9 (Jun 9, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Sometimes the configuration can be tricky. Are these two monitors adaptive, freeSync or Gsync? Maybe you've got a mix of those?


In my 3 acer xf270hua, 3 of them are freesync 144hz. 
In my older setup, only one monitor support freesync. So, it’s a mixed situation.
Switching to an ancient monitor without freesync completely negate the blackscreen issue on my setup, but I will never be able to go back to 60hz...


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## ratirt (Jun 9, 2020)

I been thinking of buying  2 monitors 1080p 144Hz as a replacement for my two freesync 60hz. I didn't have a problem but who knows. Maybe I will have some struggles with the 144Hz with my 4k main screen set-up. It may require more setting up but I think it will be ok. 
You know. Sometimes when you have enhanced Sync in the AMD driver, it may cause blacks screens. Not sure how it affects multiple monitors but I'm sure it is not helping. I didnt have any issues though. 
Also not sure how the variation of the refresh rate impacts things here. I got all 60Hz as of now. I would switch off all features and run things and then slowly switch setting after setting to know what may cause the problem.


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## Bee9 (Jun 9, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I been thinking of buying  2 monitors 1080p 144Hz as a replacement for my two freesync 60hz. I didn't have a problem but who knows. Maybe I will have some struggles with the 144Hz with my 4k main screen set-up. It may require more setting up but I think it will be ok.
> You know. Sometimes when you have enhanced Sync in the AMD driver, it may cause blacks screens. Not sure how it affects multiple monitors but I'm sure it is not helping. I didnt have any issues though.
> Also not sure how the variation of the refresh rate impacts things here. I got all 60Hz as of now. I would switch off all features and run things and then slowly switch setting after setting to know what may cause the problem.



When frame rate dips in and out of freesync range then black screen tends to happen.


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## ratirt (Jun 9, 2020)

Really? but the 144Hz screens have better range than the 60 or 75Hz ones. How can you dip lower than the range with the 5700XT? Did you have enhanced sync in the driver on? sometimes the settings give a hard time to some games. Was it any game you played or just few certain games?


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## Bee9 (Jun 9, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Really? but the 144Hz screens have better range than the 60 or 75Hz ones. How can you dip lower than the range with the 5700XT? Did you have enhanced sync in the driver on? sometimes the settings give a hard time to some games. Was it any game you played or just few certain games?


All freesync and enhanced sync is disabled and I still have black screen. It just reduces the chances to get black screen if you disable the freesync and enhanced sync.
43hz to 143hz is the freesync range and with total war 3 kingdom, sometimes even the 2070 chokes at ultra setting. 5700xt usually will dip below 40fps late game.


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## ratirt (Jun 9, 2020)

Bee9 said:


> All freesync and enhanced sync is disabled and I still have black screen. It just reduces the chances to get black screen if you disable the freesync and enhanced sync.
> 43hz to 143hz is the freesync range and with total war 3 kingdom, sometimes even the 2070 chokes at ultra setting. 5700xt usually will dip below 40fps late game.


I haven't noticed that behavior on my 60hz screens and yet when you get 4k in some games the dips are below 40fps. I would seem I will need to check this when I get my new 144hz screens.


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## Bee9 (Jun 9, 2020)

ratirt said:


> I haven't noticed that behavior on my 60hz screens and yet when you get 4k in some games the dips are below 40fps. I would seem I will need to check this when I get my new 144hz screens.


Try other brands, stay away from acer. Asus may be a good start.


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## ratirt (Jun 9, 2020)

Bee9 said:


> Try other brands, stay away from acer. Asus may be a good start.


I been thinking about Acer but I think I will go all LG again. LG is pretty decent in my opinion. Been thinking about Samsung as well. LG and Samsung are in my opinion best screen brands. I'm getting a new TV (LG this time) as well but that's for another topic. I'm still thinking what will I need at the moment but thanks for the tip  I'll try to stay away from Acer.


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## cucker tarlson (Jun 9, 2020)

Bee9 said:


> Try other brands, stay away from acer. Asus may be a good start.


in my experience acer predator is exceptional (though it's the g-sync module one).asus is poor.
and multi monitor setups are not just a navi problem,been like this since r9 or even earlier.
you're gonna have problems with borderless adaptive sync and run very high idle clocks on your card so forget 0db mode.


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## sepheronx (Jun 9, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> in my experience acer predator is exceptional (though it's the g-sync module one).asus is poor.
> and multi monitor setups are not just a navi problem,been like this since r9 or even earlier.
> you're gonna have problems with borderless adaptive sync and run very high idle clocks on your card so forget 0db mode.



I found that Asus are about the same as Acer but just generally more expensive.  

LG apparently are the best price to performance monitors according to Hardware Unboxed.


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## cucker tarlson (Jun 9, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> I found that Asus are about the same as Acer but just generally more expensive.
> 
> LG apparently are the best price to performance monitors according to Hardware Unboxed.


luck of the draw probably.


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## sepheronx (Jun 9, 2020)

I personally had great luck with BenQ monitors in terms of quality.  I still have some BenQ monitors for over a decade still functioning just fine.  But I find now the price to performance isn't nearly as good.

The Acer Predators are nice though.  Plus it is named after the greatest movie ever.  So what more do you need?


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## ratirt (Jun 9, 2020)

I've got LG 4k and it is brilliant. I like it a lot and I been thinking of going LG again or Samsung if I don't find what I want.


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## P4-630 (Jun 9, 2020)

ratirt said:


> *I've got LG 4k* and it is brilliant. I like it a lot and I been thinking of going LG again or Samsung if I don't find what I want.



How do you play your games with your "RX Vega 64 Red Devil / Sapphire 5600XT pulse " ?


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## cucker tarlson (Jun 9, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> The Acer Predators are nice though.  Plus it is named after the greatest movie ever.  So what more do you need?


an alienware one
had plans to put one next to my predator.and I still wanna.


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## sepheronx (Jun 9, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> an alienware one
> had plans to put one next to my predator.and I still wanna.


an alien vs predator setup.  I dunno, movies sucked 

Alienware monitors are nice but expensive.


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## cucker tarlson (Jun 9, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> an alien vs predator setup.  I dunno, movies sucked
> 
> Alienware monitors are nice but expensive.


acerware
so was my dell s2716dg


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## ratirt (Jun 9, 2020)

P4-630 said:


> How do you play your games with your "RX Vega 64 Red Devil / Sapphire 5600XT pulse " ?


What do you mean how? I play. Not all games can go 4k with any of the cards I got but it is possible. Sometimes you can dial down the settings and you play with other games you stick to 2K if you can't pull off 60FPS. 
Besides, 4K isn't just for games you know.


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## EarthDog (Jun 9, 2020)

ratirt said:


> If it can drop as you mentioned, what's so funny about it? My PSU is faulty which means power delivery is bad and that can cause the card not o function as it should. FPS drops may happen.
> As I remember correctly, the lower min FPS was higher for about 6FPS. You can't consider this as an margin of error. 6FPS in min is huge when you use the exact same card.


It is rare to see a psu 'brown out' and cause lower fps. Typically it either works or doesn't. People don't gain fps from upgrading PSUs is the point. Faulty is an entirely different ballgame and again, isn't typical to see improvements.

The theory about cards at their limit (ill go with this..ish) but ripple causing it was part of what I found funny. 

Anyhoo, a new psu doesn't seem to fix the amd black screen issue is my point.


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## ratirt (Jun 9, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> You and your performance is a whole different ball of crazy.
> It is rare to see a psu 'brown out' and cause lower fps. Typically it either works or doesn't. People don't gain fps from upgrading PSUs is the point. Faulty is an entirely different ballgame and again, isn't typical to see improvements.
> 
> The theory about cards at their limit (ill go with this..ish) but ripple causing it was part of what I found funny.
> ...


Believe it or not, but I was just as surprised as you are right now. Degradation of the PSU doesn't have to come instantly works or doesn't. It may degrade with time and lose efficiency over time while excessively stressed for instance. Was it slow degradation and loss of efficiency that caused that behavior? I'm not sure, I didn't check my old PSU thoroughly. Just sharing my findings. Laugh all you want man i really don't give a rats ass about that. Sharing anything on this forum becomes very unpleasant nowadays.

In my case, new PSU fixed my problem with black screens during Unigine for instance and randoms at certain games. Old PSU ruined my Vega64 Red Devil and it would seem it just doesn't wanna work now. I keep trying fixing it  although I'm losing ideas what to do next.


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## EarthDog (Jun 9, 2020)

ratirt said:


> Believe it or not, but I was just as surprised as you are right now. Degradation of the PSU doesn't have to come instantly works or doesn't. It may degrade with time and lose efficiency over time while excessively stressed for instance. Was it slow degradation and loss of efficiency that caused that behavior? I'm not sure, I didn't check my old PSU thoroughly. Just sharing my findings. Laugh all you want man i really don't give a rats ass about that. Sharing anything on this forum becomes very unpleasant nowadays.
> 
> In my case, new PSU fixed my problem with black screens during Unigine for instance and randoms at certain games. Old PSU ruined my Vega64 Red Devil and it would seem it just doesn't wanna work now. I keep trying fixing it  although I'm losing ideas what to do next.


You're missing the point/putting ideas in my head/posts... forget it. Not worth the point. 

If you are having trouble with this forum, I suggest if when insisting the sun rises in the west, that supporting information is posted. Otherwise, yeah, you'll get flak.

So, congrats on,_ in your case_, your faulty PSU and GPU issues were fixed with a new PSU. I'm sure many who are still having this issue wish that was the root cause, but, many have tried swapping PSUs and still walk away with the black screen issue.

Cheers.


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## ratirt (Jun 9, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> You're missing the point/putting ideas in my head/posts... forget it. Not worth the point.
> 
> If you are having trouble with this forum, I suggest if when insisting the sun rises in the west, that supporting information is posted. Otherwise, yeah, you'll get flak.
> 
> ...


I have problem with some people here not the forum. Others come here to seek advice or some insight on the matter not people's cheesy answer that give squat not help or any useful input just to boost their ego or self esteem or God know what. Just flood the posts with crap. 
Either way thanks for sharing, very insightful.


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## Bee9 (Jun 9, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> You're missing the point/putting ideas in my head/posts... forget it. Not worth the point.
> 
> If you are having trouble with this forum, I suggest if when insisting the sun rises in the west, that supporting information is posted. Otherwise, yeah, you'll get flak.
> 
> ...


Oh that was me, too. Swapping psu, even main boards and monitors. My old psu is a 650w bronze, so I think it’s time to get a platinum 850w to pair up with a 3950x... still black screen.

I gave the same vega 56 card to my brother with totally different setup, piss poor no name psu and a windows installation that has both nvidia and amd drivers installed ( he’s that lazy to uninstall). And the damn vega56 works perfectly without black screen... I gave up after that because it was the luck of the draw. May be some monitor panels don’t play well, but it’s no longer my intention to find out and as long as I still use windows to play games, nvidia is my only option for now. I’m just venting because this is the first time in 30 years I have to give up on a computer problem... 

I still have a hackintosh machine with the same 5700xt and it runs my games perfectly fine with no black screen with decent frame rate (in this case total war 3 kingdoms) using the same monitor setup. It’s clearly the driver issue in my case, not the PSU.


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## P4-630 (Jun 9, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> FTFY.
> 
> Nvidia isn't known (4Q?) amd is supposedly September.











						Highlights of the day: Graphics card shipments to stay strong
					

The first half of a year has been usually the slow season for graphics cards, but this year the coronavirus pandemic-triggeed stay-at-home needs has shored up demand. With AMD and Nvidia set to launch their next-generation GPUs in September,  vendors are expected to cut prices for...



					www.digitimes.com


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## EarthDog (Jun 9, 2020)

P4-630 said:


> Highlights of the day: Graphics card shipments to stay strong
> 
> 
> The first half of a year has been usually the slow season for graphics cards, but this year the coronavirus pandemic-triggeed stay-at-home needs has shored up demand. With AMD and Nvidia set to launch their next-generation GPUs in September,  vendors are expected to cut prices for...
> ...


There isn't an official release date. People are quoting the digitimes rumor, but it is just that. Though it does 'line up nicely', we don't know for sure. You may be correct... but nothing concrete yet.



> There’s still no official release date for Nvidia Ampere, but a report from DigitTimes claims it could launch in September. The report does not provide a source, but we still reckon it could be accurate since it lines up so nicely with previous reports.


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## HenrySomeone (Jun 9, 2020)

Ahhh, it's good to see AMD is still clinging to their traditions - if you use their top end card with anything less than a 750W gold, you are almost guarateed to have issues sooner or later, lol


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## P4-630 (Jun 9, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> There isn't an official release date. People are quoting the digitimes rumor, but it is just that. Though it does 'line up nicely', we don't know for sure. You may be correct... but nothing concrete yet.



https://www.techpowerup.com/review/future-hardware-releases/#rtx3000


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## bogmali (Jun 9, 2020)

This whole thread has turned into a troll fest......closing up shop


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