# Questions arising from overclocking 9600K related to the H100i PRO AIO



## andiey (Nov 30, 2019)

So I have my new 9600K rig to play around for the last couple of weeks. And I still love my old 3570K.

I overclocked the two systems and stressed test using CPU-Z and have found the followings:

9600K @ stock 4.3GHz - Temperature 48C (Max) for 30 minutes   Cooler = CORSAIR H100i PRO
            @ 4.8 GHz (ocd) - Temperature 64C (Max) for 30 minutes

3570K @ 4.2 GHz (ocd) - Temperature 65C(Max) for 60 minutes   Cooler = CORSAIR H60 (1st generation, square pump no rgb)

My thoughts are GREAT especially the 3570K which I placed it inside a Bitfenix Prodigy case without any intake fans, just the exhaust fan attached to the radiator at the rear. Remark is that there is no graphics card in this rig, I took the graphics card and put it into the 9600K.

The questions which arise from overclocking and stress test the 9600K are

1)  I found the *default* fan curve H100i PRO AIO was sensor'ing the H100i PRO. It was one of the selected items in a list  where there are also 9600K Core#0, 9600K Core#1,...Asus Rog Strix Z30-F fan#1,..., CPU Package....
     I like to know should I select CPU Package as the right sensor?  It doesn't make sense that the dual fans' speed should be dependent on the pump temperature rather than on the CPU's, am I right or I am missing something here?         Please advise.

2) After stress testing the 9600K, I stop the stress. The 9600K's temperature however, didn't fall back by very much. I was expecting it fell back to the range 31~35 like it was ilde. But what happened was that it fell back to the mid 40's,      I am referring to the CPU Package, not individual core's.  Individual cores did fall back to 30's with at most 2 out of 6 of them hovering around the mid 40's.

Can anyone advise please, I am worrying about the 9600K's behaviour.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 30, 2019)

Max temp of only 64c? 

From my seat, you have a pretty cool running processor. I see nothing to be alarmed about here.


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## andiey (Nov 30, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Max temp of only 64c?
> 
> From my seat, you have a pretty cool running processor. I see nothing to be alarmed about here.


Yes, it is 64C on all cores, for 30 minutes. I don't see any points running the stress for a bit longer given it is new CPU.
Maybe, it is the 3x Intake fans and the 2x Exhaust fan/radiator and 1x exhaust fan does the job pretty well.

Do you know anything about the H100i PRO fan curve?


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 30, 2019)

You need to stress with something like aida 64 cpu/fpu... CPU Z doesn't even stress my 9900k much at all.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 30, 2019)

andiey said:


> Yes, it is 64C on all cores, for 30 minutes. I don't see any points running the stress for a bit longer given it is new CPU.
> Maybe, it is the 3x Intake fans and the 2x Exhaust fan/radiator and 1x exhaust fan does the job pretty well.
> 
> Do you know anything about the H100i PRO fan curve?



I don't actually. I've never had an AIO unit before, I cannot help.
However I do manually set my fan curves in bios to my desires. If your specs are accurate, hit F6 once you are in the bios. (In other words I don't use the fan/oc software)


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## sneekypeet (Nov 30, 2019)

Corsair based the fan curve on the coolant temperature.  Software should allow you to set your own curve if you do not like what is happening now.


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## andiey (Nov 30, 2019)

sneekypeet said:


> Corsair based the fan curve on the coolant temperature.  Software should allow you to set your own curve if you do not like what is happening now.


So you're sure about that, the H100i PPRO means coolant temperature?


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 30, 2019)

andiey said:


> So you're sure about that, the H100i PPRO means coolant temperature?



I actually have mine set to ramp up from 800-1200 depending on my GPU temps... My coolant never gets warm enough otherwise to make my Fans spin up. If you set it to package temp the fans will constantly ramp up and down depending on what RPM you set and what you're doing which is annoying. I would just leave it to coolant and use the balance preset or you can tinker with the fan curve based on coolant temperature.


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## andiey (Nov 30, 2019)

This is from my office PC, I was trying to find the "CPU Package temp" for the RGB lighting.



oxrufiioxo said:


> I actually have mine set to ramp up from 800-1200 depending on my GPU temps... My coolant never gets warm enough otherwise to make my Fans spin up. If you set it to package temp the fans will constantly ramp up and down


Exactly, they are very sensitive.
That's why I need advices, I can't take my current setup for too long or the fan will be damaged more or less.



oxrufiioxo said:


> ...depending on what RPM you set and what you're doing which is annoying. I would just leave it to coolant and use the balance preset or you can tinker with the fan curve based on coolant temperature.


Balanced preset is pretty stable that's true and relatively quiet. I'll try that for a few days and see how it goes then, thank you oxrufiioxo for your help.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 30, 2019)

andiey said:


> View attachment 138053
> 
> This is from my office PC, I was trying to find the "CPU Package temp" for the RGB lighting.
> 
> ...



Do you not have your h100i plugged in?


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## biffzinker (Nov 30, 2019)

Try stress testing the overclock with ASUS's Realbench. It has caught an unstable overclock for me just running through the benchmark although you can run a stress test.






						RealBench Leaderboard V2 | ROG - Republic of Gamers Global??RealBench V2 Leaderboard
					

ROG’s RealBench leaderboard lets you submit and compare benchmark scores and overclocking results to compete for the best performance.




					rog.asus.com


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## Valantar (Nov 30, 2019)

I would avoid setting the fan speed relative to CPU temps at least without some sort of hysteresis (i.e. that the fans won't spin up until the temperature has reached the threshold for at least 5 seconds). As mentioned above any fan without hysteresis will constantly ramp up and down and be very, very annoying. Basing fan speeds on coolant temps (which take time to increase, and will never spike) is a lot more sensible, which is why that's Corsair's default approach. Unless your CPU is thermal throttling (which it clearly isn't - you're still a good 35C away from that) I would leave well enough alone. And if you're seriously worried about post-stress idle package temps in the 40s: stop. 40C has never ever hurt a CPU. This is 99% likely due to the AIO still retaining a bit of heat from being under load, which takes time to dissipate fully. Another ten minutes at idle and you'll be back to where you were. Stop worrying, leave it alone, enjoy your PC.


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## andiey (Nov 30, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Do you not have your h100i plugged in?


H100i is my home PC. This is my office PC. But I guess they work the same aren't they?


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 30, 2019)

andiey said:


> H100i is my home PC. This is my office PC. But I guess they work the same aren't they?



I mean setting up profiles will be the same and what not but your home PC will have a drop down setting for coolant temp your work PC will not.


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## andiey (Nov 30, 2019)

Valantar said:


> I would avoid setting the fan speed relative to CPU temps at least without some sort of hysteresis (i.e. that the fans won't spin up until the temperature has reached the threshold for at least 5 seconds). As mentioned above any fan without hysteresis will constantly ramp up and down and be very, very annoying. Basing fan speeds on coolant temps (which take time to increase, and will never spike) is a lot more sensible, which is why that's Corsair's default approach. Unless your CPU is thermal throttling (which it clearly isn't - you're still a good 35C away from that) I would leave well enough alone. And if you're seriously worried about post-stress idle package temps in the 40s: stop. 40C has never ever hurt a CPU. This is 99% likely due to the AIO still retaining a bit of heat from being under load, which takes time to dissipate fully. Another ten minutes at idle and you'll be back to where you were. Stop worrying, leave it alone, enjoy your PC.


My mind is almost set at ease.
However, there was one minor thing I did notice when the stress was over.

When I started the system at 4.8GHz, HWiNFO reported 31~35C at idle. Then I started CPU-Z stress test and left it running for 30 minutes while I went to make tea.  When I returned, I noted down the temperature of CPU package's of course not individual core's. That read 64C max.  Then I hit stop.  I was anticipating the CPU package temperature dropping back to the 31~35C range like the 3570K did.  But no, it didn't drop back to that range, at that point, I had a feeling that for some unknown reasons to me, that the 9600K couldn't adjust itself, why it behaved that way?  I am concerned about that.

And I forgot to mention that prior to the overclocking taking place, I turned on the Intel Rapid Storage Technology in the BIOS, would that be the cause of that issue?


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 30, 2019)

No idea use hwmonitor to verify temps it should drop back down relatively fast.


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## andiey (Nov 30, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I mean setting up profiles will be the same and what not but your home PC will have a drop down setting for coolant temp your work PC will not.


Thanks bud, both you and Valantar have told me about the coolant temperature is in fact what "H100i Pro Temp" means sets my mind at ease. I think Corsair's bad nomenclature has led me wrongly to think that's the pump's temperature and one would naturally correlate that to the CPU's temperature by extension considering  the pump is physically attached to the CPU.  Now that both of you have told me that means the coolant's temperature has completely enlightened me upon the idea, it makes perfect sense to me: liquid's temperature delta (or change) happens gradually rather than electronic element's temperature which alters instantaneously. In order to avoid sparks of the CPU fans, it is definitely more desirable to alter the fan speed accordingly with the coolant.

Thanks buds


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## Zach_01 (Nov 30, 2019)

andiey said:


> ...it makes perfect sense to me: liquid's temperature delta (or change) happens gradually rather than electronic element's temperature which alters instantaneously. *In order to avoid sparks of the CPU fans, it is definitely more desirable to alter the fan speed accordingly with the coolant.*
> 
> Thanks buds


You got it right... thats how I also set it.
And dont forget that CPU package temp sensor is further away from the surface than the core temp sensors... Thats why is so slow to return to idle temp. The whole package, the socket itself, and the board has build heat that dissipates rather slow. The cores are just under the AIO water block and cool off faster...

Its all normal


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## Valantar (Nov 30, 2019)

Good to hear you're feeling better about this. You really have no reason to worry.

As for returning to pre-stress idle temps, that takes time - idle temps (especially when the PC hasn't been running for that long) are normally with the AIO's liquid at some temperature between ambient and the CPU temperature, even if fan speeds are slow at idle. This is simply because the relatively tiny heat load of an idling CPU (likely anywhere from 2-3W to short-term 30W spikes for casual desktop use) isn't enough to meaningfully heat the liquid above ambient even when the fans are slowed down. After long-term stress on the other hand, the liquid has absorbed _a lot_ of heat from the CPU, which is retained unless the fans are still spinning quickly. And even with water temperature controlled fan speeds, your fan curve isn't likely to run the fans very fast if the water in the loop is at 40-45C. Water has a high thermal capacity (which is part of why it (coupled with a good radiator) is a good cooling medium), so it's entirely possible for your water loop to actually keep the CPU slightly warm if the CPU goes from full load to idle while the loop is still dissipating the heat from the previous workload - simply because the warmer water in the loop is providing less cooling to the chip. And as the water temperature slowly drops, the fans will spin down, meaning the last part of the drop takes the longest time.

My custom loop (not controlled by water temp, but some fans are CPU temp controlled, some GPU temp controlled) normally idles the CPU at 35-40C (it does that odd Ryzen thing where the temperature spikes every ~10 seconds and then slowly drops down again) and the GPU at a steady 31-32. After prolonged stress it takes at least half an hour for temperatures to reach the exact same levels, but no more than 10 minutes to come within 5 degrees. The last little bit takes a _long_ time. On the other hand, if I manually set my fans to full blast, it returns to normal relatively quickly and stays there after I switch them back to their normal slow idle speed.


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## Zach_01 (Nov 30, 2019)

Valantar said:


> After long-term stress on the other hand, the liquid has absorbed _a lot_ of heat from the CPU, which is retained unless the fans are still spinning quickly. And even with water temperature controlled fan speeds, your fan curve isn't likely to run the fans very fast if the water in the loop is at 40-45C. Water has a high thermal capacity (which is part of why it (coupled with a good radiator) is a good cooling medium), *so it's entirely possible for your water loop to actually keep the CPU slightly warm if the CPU goes from full load to idle while the loop is still dissipating the heat from the previous workload* - simply because the warmer water in the loop is providing less cooling to the chip. And as the water temperature slowly drops, the fans will spin down, meaning the last part of the drop takes the longest time.


This is not the case... short of...
What you say could happen, but only if you set the wrong/undesired fan curve. The cool thing about fan curves is that you can set the entire fan rpm range to like 30C delta or to 5C delta for min-max rpm
If you try to set the fun curve with wide delta and bind the curve to water temp... then its wrong and what you are saying will be true.

You can cool the CPU with either wide delta (20~30 or even 40C) bound to CPU temp or narrow delta (5~10C) bound to water temp and do the appropriate cooling.
The difference is that at CPU temp bound curve the fans will spike rpm a little more as CPU temp bounce around. Then you must introduce rpm latency to smooth out the curve... Water can do that with out any rpm latency/hysterisis. Corsair iCue does not have any latency setting because binding the fan curve to water does the same thing.

There is no wrong or right here... only preference.


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## andiey (Dec 1, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> This is not the case... short of...
> What you say could happen, but only if you set the wrong/undesired fan curve. The cool thing about fan curves is that you can set the entire fan rpm range to like 30C delta or to 5C delta for min-max rpm
> If you try to set the fun curve with wide delta and bind the curve to water temp... then its wrong and what you are saying will be true.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the picture. I think I know how to do it now.  I'll try to set it up and see if I can push the clock speed a little further.



Valantar said:


> Good to hear you're feeling better about this. You really have no reason to worry.
> 
> As for returning to pre-stress idle temps, that takes time - idle temps (especially when the PC hasn't been running for that long) are normally with the AIO's liquid at some temperature between ambient and the CPU temperature, even if fan speeds are slow at idle. This is simply because the relatively tiny heat load of an idling CPU (likely anywhere from 2-3W to short-term 30W spikes for casual desktop use) isn't enough to meaningfully heat the liquid above ambient even when the fans are slowed down. After long-term stress on the other hand, the liquid has absorbed _a lot_ of heat from the CPU, which is retained unless the fans are still spinning quickly. And even with water temperature controlled fan speeds, your fan curve isn't likely to run the fans very fast if the water in the loop is at 40-45C. Water has a high thermal capacity (which is part of why it (coupled with a good radiator) is a good cooling medium), so it's entirely possible for your water loop to actually keep the CPU slightly warm if the CPU goes from full load to idle while the loop is still dissipating the heat from the previous workload - simply because the warmer water in the loop is providing less cooling to the chip. And as the water temperature slowly drops, the fans will spin down, meaning the last part of the drop takes the longest time.
> 
> My custom loop (not controlled by water temp, but some fans are CPU temp controlled, some GPU temp controlled) normally idles the CPU at 35-40C (it does that odd Ryzen thing where the temperature spikes every ~10 seconds and then slowly drops down again) and the GPU at a steady 31-32. After prolonged stress it takes at least half an hour for temperatures to reach the exact same levels, but no more than 10 minutes to come within 5 degrees. The last little bit takes a _long_ time. On the other hand, if I manually set my fans to full blast, it returns to normal relatively quickly and stays there after I switch them back to their normal slow idle speed.


Great info, it's very useful reference.
Talking about water-cooled GPU, I guess I will get the NZXT Kraken Beacket and one of the AIO, I take it that helps reducing the operating temperature of the GPU by 50%.

I guess a video and a screenshot saves a thousand words:

I've finally managed to record the Stress CPU process along with the information of the H100i PRO and the RMx 850i. I set the 9600K to run at stock speed. Note the ambient room temperature as shown in the screenshot reads 24C coz the image quality is not superb. SMH,

Strange is that after I stopped the stress test, the clock goes to 4.4GHz instead of 4.3GHz during the test, any clue?

{What is the video format allowed on this website?

I guess a video and a screenshot saves a thousand words:

I've finally managed to record the Stress CPU process along with the information of the H100i PRO and the RMx 850i. I set the 9600K to run at stock speed. Note the ambient room temperature as shown in the screenshot reads 24C coz the image quality is not superb. SMH,

Strange is that after I stopped the stress test, the clock went back to 4.4GHz instead of 4.3GHz during the test, any clue?



__
		https://aandiey.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F189413237432


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## JackCarver (Dec 1, 2019)

> Strange is that after I stopped the stress test, the clock goes to 4.4GHz instead of 4.3GHz during the test, any clue?



Did you set an AVX Offset in BIOS?


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## andiey (Dec 2, 2019)

JackCarver said:


> Did you set an AVX Offset in BIOS?


What is that? What is AVX Offset?

Please tell me what should I set it to.

BTW, power consumption as you see is tremendous almost 300W. Fortunately,I have bought this 850W PSU.

This is the overclocked to 4,9GHz. I've found that to make it happens XMP_1 profile must be set. Is that something to do with the memory speed? Also the 4,900Mhz wasn't constantly holding, it dropped intermittently to 4,989Mhz 4,987Mhz is that what people called "CPU throttle"?


__
		https://aandiey.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F189425674667


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## John Naylor (Dec 2, 2019)

What is your goal ?

a)  You want to get your name listed on leaderboard at overlocking web sites ?  In this case use synthetic testing for whatever qualifies to get you on the boards.

b)  To have the best OC you can get to run applications and games.  In this case use an applications based stress test like RoG Real Bench.  Your final OC will be higher , your temps will be significantly lower.   I have had 24 hour stable P95 OCs fail in 45 minutes under RoG Real Bench

For the best settings advice, Id recommend the CPU specific thread for your CPU on overclock.net


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## EarthDog (Dec 3, 2019)

andiey said:


> I've found that to make it happens XMP_1 profile must be set.


some boards have tweaked things when using xmp... like asus. When you enable xmp, it tells you specifically about core enhancement. You chose to enable it. You can disable it and overclock manually. This way you can control voltage and perhaps lower the heat as leaving core voltage on auto tends to use more than is needed. 



andiey said:


> Also the 4,900Mhz wasn't constantly holding, it dropped intermittently to 4,989Mhz 4,987Mhz is that what people called "CPU throttle"?


Nope. That's normal. It's called spread spectrum and a natural occurence in PCs. You likely have an option to disable it (but do not need to).


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## andiey (Dec 3, 2019)

I have found another problem. Today's weather dropped. The room temperature has dropped by 3 degrees. But when I leave the system @ stock speed idle, the temperature is higher than all the stress tests before. 
I imagine that the thermal paste comes with the AIO has melted and unevenly spreaded. Another evidence is that 2 out of 6 cores always differ from the other by 8 to 10 degrees, is that a sign that the thermal needs to be replaced?


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## EarthDog (Dec 3, 2019)

Are you saying that now at idle your cpu temperature is higher than on load??? Whaa? That makes no sense. 

Core temperatures are typically of by several degrees. That is normal. Your thermal paste is likely fine. Though if you have extra paste, you can pull it and see, wipe off and apply the new.


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## andiey (Dec 3, 2019)

No no
I am saying that when I first started running the machine, I don't do any stress test. The temperature at idle were like 35, 36 somewhere in the 30's no 40's.

Recently, I have ran several times stress test, also I have overclocked the CPU and ran the stress test.

Now I undo everything and back to stock speed.
Today under 22 room temperature, I am getting some 40s from one of the cores at ilde.
Also, out fo the 6 cores, there is always one of them hit mid to high 40s.
I am just worried if the thermal paste (comes with the cooler) is somewhat less functional. I have this suspicions is because of my old machine. I cleaned it. Applied new thermal paste to it (Thermaltake TG2) and all 4 cores of the 3570K are around 31 at ilde. All cores temp are even


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## Zach_01 (Dec 3, 2019)

Is the AIO’s water temp decreased also along with ambient?

If yes, when core temps increase, could indicate low conductivity between CPU IHS and water block...

If water temp increase with core temps, then maybe you need to readjust the fan curve.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 3, 2019)

andiey said:


> No no
> I am saying that when I first started running the machine, I don't do any stress test. The temperature at idle were like 35, 36 somewhere in the 30's no 40's.
> 
> Recently, I have ran several times stress test, also I have overclocked the CPU and ran the stress test.
> ...



Can't compare the processors for thermal dynamics. So you need to put old rig behind you and start understanding your new rig.
People here are pointing you in the right direction. Core difference activity is pretty normal. No worries.
Max temp from your first post 64c and that's a very good temperature. I don't feel you need to re-apply the thermal interface material.

When your temps get to 95c, then you're getting hot. you have 30c headroom.



additional comment:
Only your load temp really matters. Don't be terribly concerned with idle temps unless they are crazy high like 60-70c range.


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## jaggerwild (Dec 3, 2019)

I hope when overclocking your not using the auto Asus Software, also when running stress tests(small FFT or VVT or whateva)I have seen it keep running even after I have shut it off(FYI).


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## andiey (Dec 5, 2019)

Folks,

I have a problem!

I remove the thermal paste and reapplied my own which is Thermaltake TG-2.
Now the temperature is slightly higher than before.

All at stock speed, I left the machine COMPLETELY IDLE only running HWiNFO for 2 hours.

Core #1  MAX 54C
Core #2  MAX 54C
Core #3  MAX 54C
Core #4  MAX 52C
Core #5  MAX 53C
Core #6  MAX 55C

I might have applied a little bit thicker than I did to my 3570K a few days ago. The 3570K's thrmal reading is very even.
I also suspect would that be the hard plastic CPU bracket that hinders the pump to have a good contact with the CPU.

Should I try re-pasting thermal one more time to see if there are any luck?


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## oxrufiioxo (Dec 5, 2019)

andiey said:


> Folks,
> 
> I have a problem!
> 
> ...




if you had ihs contact issues during a prime or aida extreme cpu/fpu stress test you'd likely hit TJ max... idle peak temps are pretty irrelevant. what is your 100% all core load temps. Try running cinebench R20 and set the minimum test duration to 1200 seconds.


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## andiey (Dec 5, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> what is your 100% all core load temps


You want the max temp or the average?


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## oxrufiioxo (Dec 5, 2019)

andiey said:


> You want the max temp or the average?




max during a real stress test not cpuz though it doesn't stress a cpu hard enough.

you should also run your cooler on at least the balanced and preferably the extreme profile when stress testing.


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## andiey (Dec 5, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> some boards have tweaked things when using xmp... like asus. When you enable xmp, it tells you specifically about core enhancement. You chose to enable it. You can disable it and overclock manually. This way you can control voltage and perhaps lower the heat as leaving core voltage on auto tends to use more than is needed.


I also notice that about th auto voltage. When overclocking I remember the magic number 1.35V is being the most for the CPU and I saw it jumped to 1.37V intermittently.
The trouble is I don't know how to manually overclock it.


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## EarthDog (Dec 5, 2019)

andiey said:


> I also notice that about th auto voltage. When overclocking I remember the magic number 1.35V is being the most for the CPU and I saw it jumped to 1.37V intermittently.
> The trouble is I don't know how to manually overclock it.


Voltage left on auto

Learn.There are plenty of guides out there if you take the time to look.  Likely some here at the site.


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## andiey (Dec 5, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> max during a real stress test not cpuz though it doesn't stress a cpu hard enough.


Can I use CPU-Z's bench? I know Prime95 and Aiada 64 are too much for a new CPU


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## EarthDog (Dec 5, 2019)

andiey said:


> I know Prime95 and Aiada 64 are too much for a new CPU


New or old is absolutely not relevant. THey are more stressful as they use AVX instructions. I find AIDA64, the default stress test, does fine for me for my uses.


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## oxrufiioxo (Dec 5, 2019)

andiey said:


> Can I use CPU-Z's bench? I know Prime95 and Aiada 64 are too much for a new CPU




according to who.... I use aida 64 extreme fpu to test stability on every new cpu I have purchased or built for someone else for  almost a decade



EarthDog said:


> New or old is absolutely not relevant. THey are more stressful as they use AVX instructions. I find AIDA64, the default stress test, does fine for me for my uses.




I agree, even if you disable FPU it's still better than CPUZ


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## EarthDog (Dec 5, 2019)

I run it at default but when I really want to kick the CPU in the pants, I use FPU only (temps similar to P94 Small FFT).


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## oxrufiioxo (Dec 5, 2019)

@andiey if you're not comfortable manual OC'ing you're better off at best running MCE as any form of auto oc other than that is going to run your voltages way too high.

Also even with a 2080 ti assuming you're using your system for gaming the gains aren't worth it imo





if you're just trying to learn then I would suggest watching this video even though the cpu is different a lot of the settings still apply to your motherboard.


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## andiey (Dec 5, 2019)

Things are developing and not looking good.

I THINK I HAVE SPOILED MY NEW CPU!!!

I re-pasted the thermal compound yesterday and ran 2 times with stock and overclock.

Just now I ran it once at stock, and here are the results
55 55 56 55 54 55 (MAX Core 1, 2, ...5, 6)
48, 48, 49, 48, 47, 48 (AVG Core 1, 2,...,5, 6)

The average is higher than yesterday, I guess the thermal paste has settled down after over 24 hours.  Today is very cold outside, my room temp also decreases to 19.5 degree.  Yesterday was 24 degree.

OMG, I haven't ran any games yet, now I am worrying if they will shoot up to over 70C even talking about stock speed.
Look, I am not intending to run overclock as daily, I m just curious about the 9600K' potential and want to know if this die can go up to 5GHz. To be honest, I will go for 9700K when the price drops hopefully next year,


Right now, I just want to get back what I got before, a cooler CPU.  I was getting a max of 48 only before all this overclock testings and re-paste.  I shouldn't have overclocked!

This is my old 3570K thermal, the max is only 38 Celsius @ 4.2GHz (Overclocked with XMP#1)
The 9600K 56 Celsius is much higher and it's only 100MHz higher than the 3570K??!!


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## EarthDog (Dec 5, 2019)

I dont see a problem with the temps...just a knowledge gap.

You cannot compare these CPUs. There are so many differences which affect temps it just isn't possible. Again, I don't see an issue here outside of misinformed assumptions driving these worries. 

The temps you are seeing, this is from a stress test application? If so, gaming is typically LESS than any stress test (see above about assumptions based on bologna).


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## andiey (Dec 5, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> The temps you are seeing, this is from a stress test application? If so, gaming is typically LESS than any stress test (see above about assumptions based on bologna).


The 9600K values are obtained by just leaving the system at idle state.

The attached screenshot of the overclocked 3570K shows temp when I was doing just browsing internet.


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## EarthDog (Dec 5, 2019)

andiey said:


> The 9600K values are obtained by just leaving the system at idle state.
> 
> The attached screenshot of the overclocked 3570K shows temp when I was doing just browsing internet.


Idle temps, as was told to you previously, are not terribly relevant. Please, let's move on from the past and a chip you cannot compare your new one to and see what actual load temps are in a stress test. I suggest running Aida64 at its default settings and then post up a screenshot of the results. In general we state to keep these CPUs under 90C when stress testing. They will throttle and protect themselves at 100C IIRC.

To put it simply your new CPU does NOT run cooler than your old one. It is what it is.


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## oxrufiioxo (Dec 5, 2019)

You should also post a screenshot of your 9600k system.



Also you seem overly focused on thermal paste it's not what's causing you issues unless you didn't use any at all


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## andiey (Dec 5, 2019)

This is the result of the 3570K. The peak temp of all 4 cores during the test are 63, 66, 65, 65.

I can run it on 9600K but given it is so stressing, will my 9600K be damaged?



EarthDog said:


> Idle temps, as was told to you previously, are not terribly relevant. Please, let's move on from the past and a chip you cannot compare your new one to and see what actual load temps are in a stress test. I suggest running Aida64 at its default settings and then post up a screenshot of the results. In general we state to keep these CPUs under 90C when stress testing. They will throttle and protect themselves at 100C IIRC.
> 
> To put it simply your new CPU does NOT run cooler than your old one. It is what it is.


OK


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## oxrufiioxo (Dec 5, 2019)

We don't care about your 3570k it has nothing to do with your 9600k. One is an old 22nm CPU that runs extremely cool at stock/xmp settings and the other is a 14nm CPU that has a much higher thermal density.


Your system will shut down before anything bad happens unless you manually went in and set voltage way too high.


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## EarthDog (Dec 5, 2019)

andiey said:


> This is the result of the 3570K. The peak temp of all 4 cores during the test are 63, 66, 65, 65.
> 
> I can run it on 9600K but given it is so stressing, will my 9600K be damaged?
> 
> ...


1. Dont care about your 3570k. 
2. No it wont hurt it. Did you see what I said above about temps and throttling?
3. You ran a GPU test... not the cpu test... come on man!
Edit: run aida64 stress test. Nit the gpgpu test (which does have a cpu component)

Obviously we want to see TEMPERATURES not how fast it ran it. Stick with us....


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## oxrufiioxo (Dec 5, 2019)

Downloads | AIDA64
					

Here you can download a free 30-day trial of AIDA64 Extreme and AIDA64 Engineer. During the trial period AIDA64 may offer limited functionality, and may not display all data on the information and benchmark result pages. If you want to evaluate AIDA64 Network Audit or AIDA64 Business, request a...



					www.aida64.com
				




The top one aida 64 extreme.
on your 9600k with a screen shot of hwmonitor or whatever monitor tool you're using.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 5, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Downloads | AIDA64
> 
> 
> Here you can download a free 30-day trial of AIDA64 Extreme and AIDA64 Engineer. During the trial period AIDA64 may offer limited functionality, and may not display all data on the information and benchmark result pages. If you want to evaluate AIDA64 Network Audit or AIDA64 Business, request a...
> ...


What for? 

Already know load temps 65c.

Doesnt get much cooler than that!!!

You guys are trying to help lower temps you wont get lower.

Thermal paste reseat was wasted time obviously. 

I dont understand what the issue really is? His 3570 ran way.... Cooler?


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## oxrufiioxo (Dec 5, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> What for?
> 
> Already know load temps 65c.
> 
> ...



He thinks his cooler is broken and he's too scared to run a real stress test.


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## EarthDog (Dec 5, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Already know load temps 65c.


That was for his 3570K, which we don't really care about.

Frankly, this thread/his others are difficult to follow. lol


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 5, 2019)

Then he/we arent really getting anywhere.

If he does load test, hopefully we get some screen shot confirmation of actual load temps.


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## andiey (Dec 5, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Your system will shut down before anything bad happens unless you manually went in and set voltage way too high.


Dude, all I am caring about is the longevity of a newly purchased CPU. That's why I am getting nervous


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## Zach_01 (Dec 5, 2019)

You dont need to be nervous. You need to be cautious. By running 1 time up to system shutdown temps will not hurt the CPU by at all. Even a bunch of times.
We here are all convinced  that you will not hit that point. There are people running these kinds of CPUs like just under Tj max of 95 or 105C for months or even years.

Why dont you provide some screenshots of HWiNFO...

1) idling
2) middle/high loads (like gaming)
3) All core 100% loads (like CB R20, no heavy stress tests)

...like many here asked you to do several times.
Just start with first 2... and take it easy, the minute we see something out of order we will tell you ASAP!! That's what all this fuss is about...


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## andiey (Dec 5, 2019)

Folks,

*I guess I've got my previous good temperature back.* 
_*For those who like to learn the experience from others, stick to this post.*_

First, I did actually just 30 minutes ago, remove the pump from the CPU, look at screenshots of the 1st re-paste of the thermal compound:






As you can see, the paste was extremely thick, *don't forget *that same thickness of paste were on the pump side as well. Look harder to the screenshot and you will find that the paste actually spilled over on the sides of the chip.  Damn, I'm rusty one of these days doing this. What a huge mistake I made.  "Pea size" theory is right all along.

What I did to amend the situation was firstly, remove using diluted alcohol of the thermal paste on the copper side of the pump. As I was doing that, I kept shaking my head saying "Oh No!" I had to do 2 times to remove 90% of the paste. The last go was to clean it up completely. Then I rested the pump by hinging it to the corridor of the RAM modules, I didn't want to undo the fan/rad kit and all those...too troublesome.  Then I starred at the chip like in the photo, and was thinking what to do next.  Cleaning it completely required huge work, remove the fan/rad and all the cables attached to them, them take out the chip and clean the bracket. I checked the state of the spill over, had I removed the chip, some of the residue of the paste could have dropped onto the socket and that will destroy the whole motherboard!  After 10 minutes, I decided to go for a surgical remedial work.

I got no tools, the package of the Thernaltake TG-2 does come with a little flat spoon for painting the paste over the chip surface, but that was long gone 6 years ago when I built my 3570K. As luck could have it, I use a plastic knife to remove the extra portion of paste along the 2 sides of the chip which were most affected. It was a tedious move. Then I grabbed a used stored value card, with its micro-size I managed to delicately dipped and swipe little by little and remove some of the thicker portion of the entire area. As you can see paste were all over the entire area of the chip's surface and those which looks like streaks are thicker than is needed.  So I had to be very careful and I really don't allow myself for any more mistakes this time round to avoid re-paste the 2nd times.

After nearly 15 minutes of surgical work, look at the screenshot below:





Now as you all can see, even by visual confirmation, that the paste is much thinner than before and you can see streaks revealing some kind of cavities, I decided to leave that because I could imagine that after pressing the pump (now no paste were on the copper base anymore) on to the chip, those cavities would have been even out making a perfect coverage entirely yet a thinnest layer of thermal compound.

So after that, I said a prayer. Then I put the pump back this time, I made sure that the bracket was not loose as I checked that was a bit loose, bad design Corsair, give us metal bracket please!!

Then I said another prayer. Next booted up the machine.  Here are the results after 15 minutes leaving the system idle:

45, 47, 48, 46, 48, 48 (MAX  Core #1, 2,..., 5, 6)
30, 30, 38, 33, 32, 32 (AVG  Core #1, 2,..., 5, 6)

Before this repair work, they were previously

55 55 56 55 54 55 (MAX Core 1, 2, ...5, 6)
48, 48, 49, 48, 47, 48 (AVG Core 1, 2,...,5, 6) 

The delta are

10, 8, 8, 9, 6, 10. That are horrendous figures!  We are talking about a delta of 10 degree Celsius because the thermal compound was over/too much/too thick....whatever you name them.
I captured a screenshot of HWiNFO:





 I recalled one of you asked about the PSU wattage and the Core voltage. This one should give you the figures needed.

As a conclusion to this little crisis, all I can say is that

1) Thick thermal paste is bad. It DOES affect the thermal conductivity between the CPU chip and the cooler. (It's a lost art noticing one of you actually pointed out that is not a factor affecting the temperature of the CPU)
2) When you hit a problem like I do, think broader, consider all the possibilities and narrow down by eliminating some of the negatives. More importantly, do not under-estimate those old-school technique. They must have a reason to state their theories.
3) Practice more using thermal paste, do not refrain from undoing the wrong try and start it over again. Good things come to those who have the courage and boldness to face the problems and work diligently to solve it.


Sorry to some of you, I noticed that you sent me replies while I was typing this. It has taken me some 40 minutes to complete thisthread.


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## Vario (Dec 5, 2019)

Leaving it idle and checking max or average temperature an hour later doesn't tell you much of anything.  Modern operating systems have background processes that vary from time to time, sometimes will generate load that will change your max temperature briefly.  You can run the hw monitor and look at the temperature just sitting idle and it should be 25 to 35*C for the most part.

Then you'd want to test load and subsequent return to idle.  Best way to do this is run Prime 95 for a few minutes, see how hot it gets.  Stop the test and see how quickly it returns to baseline, it should be close to instantaneous.

Baseline should be about 25 to 35*C.
Assuming your CPU is stock, your load temperature should be somewhere between 50 to 80*C.

If all that works, then the paste is fine, the CPU is fine, the cooler is fine, don't obsess about it any further.


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## EarthDog (Dec 5, 2019)

That's a shit ton of thermal paste... WOW. Honestly, it still looks like a ton on there. I just put a BB to small Pea size amount in the middle with four small dots at the corners (looks like the 5 on a die) and let the pressure of the block push it out. Works like a charm. If you pack in on like toothpaste, surely its going to be worse. The aim of it is the thinnest layer possible to get full coverage... and it still looks like butter on toast.

Idle temps......Respectfully, are you understanding what we are posting because you don't seem to follow it without multiple requests. More than one person stated idle temps are just about useless (gives a relative idea, but temp sensors are also less accurate the farther away from TJmax). So...........................what are your LOAD temps now using a proper stress testing application?

Honestly, if I was you, I would reapply again and use the BB/Pea method and see if that works too. Either way, use even less than the second pic.



andiey said:


> bad design Corsair, give us metal bracket please!!


From your picture, the bracket to attach the block/pump to the board really looks exactly like mine and is absolutely made from metal. There is no way a plastic that thin could hold down the pump/block with that much force. 



andiey said:


> It has taken me some 40 minutes to complete this *thread*.


Post. 40 minutes to complete a post within your thread.


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## andiey (Dec 5, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> That's a shit ton of thermal paste... WOW. Honestly, it still looks like a ton on there. I just put a BB to small Pea size amount in the middle with four small dots at the corners (looks like the 5 on a die) and let the pressure of the block push it out. Works like a charm. If you pack in on like toothpaste, surely its going to be worse. The aim of it is the thinnest layer possible to get full coverage... and it still looks like butter on toast.



Yeah, you're right.  I miss that 4 corners one though, didn't know that before.

I look back to the stock thermal paste on the pump, it was circular and thin.

In the screenshot above, it could be slightly thicker than the stock one; but definitely way better than the removal.

It is that "thinnest" which put everyone cadet builder to challenge, very hard to master the craftsmanship.

Just now I have ran CPU-Z Bench Stress Test.  Here is the screenshot:





Just a bit confused at load the clock was 4,300 whereas at idle that was 4,400...


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## Vario (Dec 5, 2019)

andiey said:


> Just a bit confused at load the clock was 4,300 whereas at idle that was 4,400...



Yeah, the more cores being loaded by the windows scheduler, the lower the clock, its the way Intel designed it.  If you use a custom overclock you can make all the cores run at the same speed.


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## Zach_01 (Dec 5, 2019)

All I see for both screenshots are normal temps. At first you got 20+% average CPU usage with cores below 40C average... nice! At second you have 77% CPU load on average and cores are 42~44C average. I bet that at heavy 100% load your cores will stay somewhere around 60s on average which will be alot more than nice temps. And if your max temps are like 65~70C you are all set. What more to ask?
And your clocks behave normal as all modern CPUs do...

Enjoy your system!!


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## andiey (Dec 6, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> Enjoy your system!!


Thanks, my mind at ease now.


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## andiey (Dec 8, 2019)

I have just unleashh the real power of the i5 3570K. This 6th year since its birth, I have stretched it to push it to the endof the envelope.
See some of the cores showed red @ 4,512MHz, it's nearly the same as the 9600K.  Now why did I buy a new 9600K goven the fact.










The most amazing thing is that I am using just the Corsair 120mm H60 good old pump and the EK-Fury 56 3,000 rpm fan.  This cooler is a great great cooler, much better than the H100i

And why the system doesn't shut itself down as the temp shows red??

Now I can even get it up to 4,600MHz, it's a record. I am doing a stress test, this time I only use CPU-Z lest will damage the CPU if I use AiDA64
It's running at 80+ C, if I don't mind I can just leave it as a daily operating clock freq.





It's reaching 4,739MHz, already faster than my new 9600K. Temperature is under 95C, and I am using just a 120mm AIO.  WHY DID I BUY THE 9600K.!??!


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## oxrufiioxo (Dec 8, 2019)

Even if you clocked the 3570k to 5.5ghz it would still get smoked by the 9600k.


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## EarthDog (Dec 8, 2019)

andiey said:


> See some of the cores showed red @ 4,512MHz, it's nearly the same as the 9600K. Now why did I buy a new 9600K goven the fact....
> 
> ....It's reaching 4,739MHz, already faster than my new 9600K. Temperature is under 95C, and I am using just a 120mm AIO. WHY DID I BUY THE 9600K.!??!


Because you dont really know how these work filling your head up with ideas to formulate an opinion based on misinformation. The 9600k is a few generations newer and few percent faster clock for clock in the first place. Then, you are adding 50% more cores on top of it. The 9600k is faster on ambient cooling, period. 


andiey said:


> And why the system doesn't shut itself down as the temp shows red??


because it hasnt hit the TJmax for the chip which would do so.




andiey said:


> Now I can even get it up to 4,600MHz, it's a record.


for you personally? Sure. Otherwise, not even close. Average watercooling clock for those is 4.65 ghz. Your 4.7 ghz is above average...though not a record. 





						Intel Core i5 3570K @ HWBOT
					

27,719 submissions, 50.95/100 hw index




					hwbot.org


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## andiey (Dec 8, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> for you personally? Sure. Otherwise, not even close. Average watercooling clock for those is 4.65 ghz. Your 4.7 ghz is above average...though not a record.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow 7GHz! World record.

9600K only 6.8GHz






						Intel Core i5 9600K @ HWBOT
					

7,316 submissions, 44.943/100 hw index




					hwbot.org
				




I didn't know it's so exciting and easy. I pushed it to 4.9GHz just now, reaching the auto-overclock freq of my new 9600K.





I have a question here:  Now that I am using AIDA64 to stress the chip and it's reached 105C still not shutting down. Given that this is an extreme software stressing a CPU, does it mean that if I run any games at this clock freq, the chip will be able to withstand the loading that any game brings to it?


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## EarthDog (Dec 8, 2019)

You should not run  that chip nor your 9600k at those temps. Your goal is to keep stress tests to around 90c or less. Gaming temps will be a lot less. That's the name of the game... highest clock with temps at 90c or less using the least amount of voltage to keep it stable.

Are you overclocking on auto???


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## andiey (Dec 8, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> You should not run  that chip nor your 9600k at those temps. Your goal is to keep stress tests to around 90c or less. Gaming temps will be a lot less. That's the name of the game... highest clock with temps at 90c or less using the least amount of voltage to keep it stable.
> 
> Are you overclocking on auto???


No, not Auto, it's all on Manual. I even skipped the XMP Profile #1. It's the old board and CPU P8Z77-I Deluxe + Core i5-3570K.  This chip is doing really good.  After six and a half years, I can now temper with it without much guilt.  But in second thought, given its tremendous overclockability, I am seriously thinking revamping it with a new graphics card. Currently, I moved the graphics card to the new 9600K machine, so this 3570K righ is just on the Intel HD 4000 onboard graphics chip. It does well with that chipset when I play Age of Empire II (Original version) on Voobly.

I am beginning to love this rig more than my new one, am I mental?  Yes a bit.

I am thinking getting hte Geeek A60 because it can accommodate an AIO on the roof.

I m still testing

Just trying the Core ratio limit in BIOS at 46 with the BCLK/PEG Frequency at 100.  I need to play around with this combination. I took the auto voltage. Should I alter it? It is holding at 1.181 max for the time being, and clock is 4,599MHz.

Looks like this is the limit.
BCLK/PEG Frequency = 100
Core-Ratio Limit = 48
Core frequency = 100x48 = 4800

Mem 100:133 = 933.8x 2 = 1868MHz

VCore (max recorded)=1.384 (Very high)

Power to CPU Package = 76W (TDP of 3570K= 77W) so that's about it.

As the Power supplied boosted to the official value of 77W and Vcore is higher than 1.35 Delta=0.034

I guess limit is reached at 4800.


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## EarthDog (Dec 8, 2019)

Your voltage is on auto... it should not be.


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## andiey (Dec 8, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Your voltage is on auto... it should not be.


How do you tell?

This is a historic moment! I am proud to presebnt after 2 hours of trial and error effort, my 3570K is reaching 4.9GHz effective with 40mV injected via offset.
Here is the screenshot, no stress test yet coz lest the chip will be burnt down.

My last trial 48x100 +30mV injected via offset yields Core 1 97C and Core 2 97C after 2 minutes,
CPU package reached 105C threshold after 4 minutes.

I am going to stress after this writing.






NO! It didn't survive the AIDA 64 Stability Test, look throttle happened for the first time:


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## EarthDog (Dec 9, 2019)

andiey said:


> look throttle happened for the first time:


Look at your previous image. It shows throttling then too.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 9, 2019)

lol dam that's hot....

100+ Celsius - Gets really close to melting solder, wonders why cpu breaks.
Disclaimer.
This is exactly how processors break. Please other viewers, don't try this at home lol.


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## andiey (Dec 9, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> lol dam that's hot....
> 
> 100+ Celsius - Gets really close to melting solder, wonders why cpu breaks.
> Disclaimer.
> This is exactly how processors break. Please other viewers, don't try this at home lol.


Surely,
Disclaimer.
All other viewers, PLS DO NOT TRY DOING THIS OVERCLOCKING WITH TEMPERATURE OVER 90. 
I have a pretty old and dated CPU, so I am just trying to see where the limit is.  I was expecting the system to go shutdown automatically, but it didn't. So the protection mechanism of the CPU was not activated.


But having that said, the 3570K old CPU is really a sport.  It overclocks to 4,920 at the time I am typing this.

Look:
\


\


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 9, 2019)

You are perfect candidate for doing some fun cooling mods.

Find a cheap pond pump and a cheap waterblock that'll mount that cpu. The get some 1/2" tubing and drop the pump into a 5 gallon bucket of ice water. Watch that chip fly. 4.9ghz.... pfft.

If this your spare break-able rig, why not actually have some fun with it????!!!!!


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## biffzinker (Dec 9, 2019)

andiey said:


> I was expecting the system to go shutdown automatically, but it didn't. So the protection mechanism of the CPU was not activated.


The CPU's clockspeed is throttled otherwise a power fault will cause a shutdown.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 9, 2019)

> So the protection mechanism of the CPU was not activated.



Thermtrip is yet a few degree higher..... But you're close. Keep pushing...... lol



biffzinker said:


> The CPU's clockspeed is throttled otherwise a power fault will cause a shutdown.


That feature may be disabled with some boards when manually OC. (throttling I mean)


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## andiey (Dec 9, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> The CPU's clockspeed is throttled otherwise a power fault will cause a shutdown.


I see.



ShrimpBrime said:


> Thermtrip is yet a few degree higher..... But you're close. Keep pushing...... lol
> 
> 
> That feature may be disabled with some boards when manually OC. (throttling I mean)


No, that's enough. Actually @ 4,900MHz with the 107x46 is all I get. I suspect the RAM speed 1866 MHz is hindering further pushing forward.
Since I have no real GPU just the onboard graphics so I played a game of Age of Empire II online. It went smoothly all the way.
BUT I could imagine if I played Crysis 3, it will hang because that's equivalent to running AIDA 64 stress test.

Custom cooling is no cheap. The same money I may use to find a better DDR3 kit(wonder of there are still any), a nice case looking case and a graphics card possibly 1660 Ti

About the overclock,
I find it useful (learning from Mr. Tech Deal on Youtube) that instead of setting manually a Voltage,
use the offset is a better deal. I injected 48 mV, in fact that maybe hurting.  But it works.

This is the top I can get, 4.9GHz. Can never made it to 5GHz!!






There are a lots of tweaking in the Asus Mobo's BIOS to be done to get this far, not trivial, very tricky.

And by the way, managed to alter the RAM default timings from 9-10-9-27-2N to 9-9-9-24-1N. It's the Corsair Dominator 1866MHz 2x4GB DDR3


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