# i7-9750h Need Undervolting Help (High Temps still)



## noogz (May 29, 2021)

Hey Everyone,

I am looking for some undervolting help after doing some research on this forum and seeing very helpful comments from unclewebb. I have a MSI GL75 9SFK-1228CA laptop with an Intel Core i7-9750H, RTX 2070, 16GB RAM, 512GB NVMe SSD. The only change I have done to the laptop is installing an addition 1TB NVMe SSD after purchasing so no repasting. I have been using it fine for about a year but thought it was time to optimize my PC to get additional frames in games by setting a new GPU frequency curve with MSI Afterburner and making a straight line at 1410 mhz (attached), my GPU temps went down from approximately 79-82C to 68C-71C with around a 10 FPS increase which I am very happy with. I have not used the OC Scanner feature yet. My fans are on Auto using Dragon Center and my Windows performance power slider is on best performance. I am using an external monitor, keyboard and mouse as well.

Recently, I looked into undervolting my CPU after discovering my CPU temps seemed very high at a max of 97C using HW Monitor and running Cinebench R20. After a lot of trial and error using Cinebench R20 and TS Bench on both fixed and random, I got my best Cinebench score of *3058* using the settings below. I tried increasing my cache offset to -125mV but I got errors on the TS Bench on random. My limit reasons is always the same when running Cinebench or TS Bench Fixed, both red on Thermal in the Core column and red on EDP Other in the Ring column. 

The main game I play is Warzone so I want to optimize my CPU and GPU for that ideally. When playing Warzone I get a new limit reason of PL1 (never gotten when benchmarking) which I believe is set to 70 right now. When I first opened throttleshop both TPL Long and Short were at 200 if that means anything. I have attached my log from that session (broken up into two logs because the session went into the next day).

*Best Settings so far*
Core offset : *-210mV*
Cache offset : *-120mV*
EPP : *0*
PROCHOT offset : *5 (default when I opened TS)*
TPL Long : *70 *
TPL Short : *90*
PP0 limit : *90 (I tried setting to 140 but the highest it lets me set is 90 for some reason)*

One random thing I noticed is the after the undervolt I noticed the undervolting offset that is displayed on TS doesn't match what it says on HWmonitor for some reason (-215mV core, -123 mV cache), I have never had both open at the same time because I know it affects the readings.

After all the changes I have tried, my temperatures do not seem to be dropping at all and the max temp is still 95-96C. I am looking for some guidance on how to lower my temps and fix the limit reason of PL1 when playing Warzone as well as increase FPS in general. I have attached all relevant settings and benchmarks on TS and Cinebench. Please let me know if I am missing any attachments (apologies in advance if I attached too many!). All advice and help is very appreciated.


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## unclewebb (May 31, 2021)

noogz said:


> I noticed the undervolting offset that is displayed on TS doesn't match what it says on HWmonitor


That has been a bug with HWMonitor for a long time. ThrottleStop is correct. If you need a second opinion, try using HWiNFO64.

Voltage is adjusted and displayed in steps of 1/1024. HWM will always report the voltage offsets incorrectly because it is not using the correct formula.

TS = 123 / 1024 = 0.1201 V
HWM = 123 / 1000 = 0.1230 V = Wrong



noogz said:


> I tried increasing my cache offset to -125mV but I got errors on the TS Bench on random.


The TS Bench works well at detecting errors. Reducing your cache undervolt to -120 mV was a good idea. Any errors are a sign of an unstable CPU and should be avoided.



noogz said:


> I tried setting to 140 but the highest it lets me set is 90 for some reason


The PP0 power limit is the limit for only the cores. This limit might not be used on your CPU. Most people set the PP0 Power Limit to 0 and they set the PP0 Time Limit to the minimum, 0.0010 seconds. This tells the CPU to ignore this setting. You do not have PP0 Power Limit checked so setting this to 90 is not doing anything because this info is not being sent to the CPU.

If you are going to try to use this limit, if your maximum power limit for the CPU package is 90W then you cannot adjust the core power limit higher than 90W. The cores are a subset of the CPU package. If the entire CPU package is limited to 90W, what would be the point of limiting the cores to anything greater than 90W? Throttling would always be determined by the package power limit so a higher limit for the cores would be ignored.

In the Options window, PROCHOT Offset is not locked so you can reduce this value if you want to increase the thermal throttling temperature. The Intel default is an offset of 0 so thermal throttling begins at 100°C. Adjusting this might help you avoid thermal throttling. Some users have had excellent long term success with Noctua NT-H2 thermal paste.

The Cinebench log shows constant thermal throttling (TEMP). This is reducing performance a little but not a huge amount. The only way to go faster is to improve cooling or increase the throttling temperature or a little of both.

In your first Warzone log I see some PL1 power limit throttling at 45W. If you want to try and go higher than 45W, check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box. Intel CPUs use power limits that are duplicated in multiple locations. Checking this box takes care of the secondary power limits on some computers.

Overall performance looks great. Both the CPU and GPU are running fast and very consistently. Thanks for the 101 screenshots and log files. It makes it a lot easier to see what is going on when all this relevant data is included in the question.


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## noogz (Jun 1, 2021)

Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it. 



unclewebb said:


> Most people set the PP0 Power Limit to 0 and they set the PP0 Time Limit to the minimum, 0.0010 seconds.


I left the PP0 power limit unchecked and at 0 as per your suggestion. 



unclewebb said:


> In the Options window, PROCHOT Offset is not locked so you can reduce this value if you want to increase the thermal throttling temperature. The Intel default is an offset of 0 so thermal throttling begins at 100°C. Adjusting this might help you avoid thermal throttling.


I left the PROCHOT offset as is because looking at my game logs it seems that the temps don't go higher than 95C and that if I reduced the offset it would mainly just benefit my Cinebench score as opposed to affecting anything in Warzone I believe? If I am incorrect about this I will change it to 96C. 

On the Main Screen it says my Max Temp was 97C but how come I didn't see that temperature reflected in the log? Should I focus more on the Max Temp or the Average Temps I am seeing in my gaming logs? Also, how can it hit 97C when my PROCHOT is at 95C?



unclewebb said:


> In your first Warzone log I see some PL1 power limit throttling at 45W. If you want to try and go higher than 45W, check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box. Intel CPUs use power limits that are duplicated in multiple locations. Checking this box takes care of the secondary power limits on some computers.


I checked the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box but still got the PL 1 limit reasons along with Thermal and EDP Other while playing Warzone. I have attached both the log of the session as well as the FIVR and Main Screen. Any other suggestions on removing the PL 1 power limit throttling? It seems like the max power limit while playing Warzone is 45W for some reason but while running Cinebench it can go well past that (as per previous log) even though I set the PL 1 to 70 and PL 2 to 90. Why can't it go higher than 45W playing Warzone?



unclewebb said:


> Some users have had excellent long term success with Noctua NT-H2 thermal paste.
> 
> The Cinebench log shows constant thermal throttling (TEMP). This is reducing performance a little but not a huge amount. The only way to go faster is to improve cooling or increase the throttling temperature or a little of both.


In your opinion, would you consider my temps high? Also, would you recommend repasting if you were in my situation or do you think the temps are fine? I would want to avoid the hassle of repasting if possible but I would be open to it if it was highly recommended and that it would increase FPS in games.


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## unclewebb (Jun 1, 2021)

noogz said:


> On the Main Screen it says my Max Temp was 97C but how come I didn't see that temperature reflected in the log?




```
DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP   NVIDIA GPU     VID   POWER
2021-05-31  22:29:10  40.00   78.5  100.0       0   92    1215    64   1.0513   50.0
2021-05-31  22:29:11  39.99   75.7  100.0       0   97    1215    64   1.0487   49.5
2021-05-31  22:29:12  40.21   49.1  100.0       0   87    1215    64   1.0730   38.7
2021-05-31  22:29:13  40.22   34.3  100.0       0   86    1215    64   1.0839   30.4
```

Your log file confirms that your CPU hit 97°C. CPU core temperatures can change instantaneously. If you put 50W of energy into your smallest finger nail, it would jump up in temperature instantaneously too. Want to try?  



noogz said:


> Also, how can it hit 97C when my PROCHOT is at 95C?


The CPU temperature can go beyond the PROCHOT temperature. This just tells the CPU it is time to start thermal throttling. It takes time for the CPU to react to this request. I do not know off hand how many milliseconds of delay is built into Intel's algorithm. If you look at your log file that I posted above, the CPU dropped 10°C within 1 second of the start of thermal throttling. Power consumption decreased. I would say Intel's algorithm is working great. It kept your CPU from having a nuclear meltdown.



noogz said:


> It seems like the max power limit while playing Warzone is 45W


Some laptops are designed to do this. When running Cinebench, the CPU is not using the Nvidia GPU so the CPU power limit is allowed to go higher. When the Nvidia GPU is active, some laptops will enforce the 45W TDP limit so there is lots of power available for the Nvidia GPU. When gaming, the GPU is much more important. In a perfect world you would be able to run your CPU and GPU at max speed and max power consumption all of the time without it ever thermal throttling. There are very few laptops built that can do this. The majority of buyers want thin and light and do not want overly noisy fans. Consumers are willing to sacrifice ultimate performance so they do not have to haul around a tank.



noogz said:


> hassle of repasting


I have a 4th Gen laptop where you literally have to disassemble everything and pull the motherboard out to get to the CPU and its heatsink. Many recent laptops have fairly easy access to the CPU so replacing the thermal paste is not an all day procedure. Watch some YouTube videos. Your log file looks good. CPU and GPU performance is high and very consistent. I would leave a re-paste for a rainy day. Any improvement in FPS would be hard to notice.


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## noogz (Jun 2, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Some laptops are designed to do this. When running Cinebench, the CPU is not using the Nvidia GPU so the CPU power limit is allowed to go higher. When the Nvidia GPU is active, some laptops will enforce the 45W TDP limit so there is lots of power available for the Nvidia GPU.


Okay so I guess in my situation there isn't anything else I can do or change to remove the PL 1 power limit throttling while playing Warzone? I don't notice anything significant in game I would say.



unclewebb said:


> Your log file looks good. CPU and GPU performance is high and very consistent. I would leave a re-paste for a rainy day. Any improvement in FPS would be hard to notice.


That is great to hear, would you recommend to continue tweaking my voltage (mainly increasing core offset) or do you think this is pretty much the maximum performance I can get out of this CPU without repasting? If I do repaste in the future, I will make sure to post my results. If this is pretty much the extent of the performance I would get then I would like to avoid getting any BSOD or crashes while attempting to pursue peak performance.

Good news and bad news, I just ran Cinebench again to see if the minor settings changes would have any effect on the score. Good news is I hit a new high score of *3094*. Bad news is I got the PL 1 power limit throttling which I have never gotten before while running Cinebench (log and cinebench attached). I even ran Cinebench yesterday with the exact same settings as today and did not get the PL 1 limit reasons. Is this something to be concerned about or should I just leave everything as is?


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## unclewebb (Jun 2, 2021)

The log file shows that your 9750H needs 63W to run Cinebench at full speed. Your laptop is enforcing a long term 55W power limit so some PL1 power limit throttling is inevitable. Long term, anytime you try to run your CPU beyond 55W, it is going to PL1 power limit throttle. 

The amount of turbo boost available at any point in time is not guaranteed. You do not always get 28 seconds worth of turbo boost. If your CPU was heavily loaded just before you ran Cinebench or if you run Cinebench back to back without any recovery time, you will see PL1 throttling much sooner compared to waiting a minute or two before running Cinebench. 

You can infinitely play around with your voltages but I think you are already very close to the ultimate settings for your CPU. If you want to try increasing only the core voltage, you will probably have to increase the cache voltage to maintain stability.

3094 is a very good Cinebench R20 score for a 9750H. Go play some games and enjoy your new laptop.


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## noogz (Jun 3, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> The log file shows that your 9750H needs 63W to run Cinebench at full speed. Your laptop is enforcing a long term 55W power limit so some PL1 power limit throttling is inevitable. Long term, anytime you try to run your CPU beyond 55W, it is going to PL1 power limit throttle.


It's weird because I have never gotten that PL1 power limit throttle before throughout all of my Cinebench testing while I was testing different voltages in the past with essentially the same settings. I am just genuinely curious why this limit reason suddenly appeared.

What is ironic is that I am getting the PL1 power limit throttle while posting my highest scores yet. I just ran Cinebench again to see if yesterday was an anomaly (the PL1 limit) but I got the PL1 throttle again and posted another new high score of *3102*. I guess there is nothing I can do about this throttling at 55W halfway through Cinebench even though it hits 63W in the first half as you said so I am going to stop testing.



unclewebb said:


> If your CPU was heavily loaded just before you ran Cinebench or if you run Cinebench back to back without any recovery time, you will see PL1 throttling much sooner compared to waiting a minute or two before running Cinebench.


I got the PL1 throttling shortly after I turned on my computer so the CPU was not heavily loaded at all prior to Cinebench.



unclewebb said:


> You can infinitely play around with your voltages but I think you are already very close to the ultimate settings for your CPU. If you want to try increasing only the core voltage, you will probably have to increase the cache voltage to maintain stability.
> 
> 3094 is a very good Cinebench R20 score for a 9750H. Go play some games and enjoy your new laptop.


After posting that 3102 Cinebench score just now I am going to stop playing around with different voltages and settings on TS and going to stick with what I have currently moving forward. Time to enjoy my laptop.

I just want to say thank you so much for your help and being so detailed in all of your responses, I really appreciate it.


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