# Microsoft Surface with Windows 8 Pro Gets Priced



## Cristian_25H (Nov 30, 2012)

Through its official blog Microsoft has announced that the x86-flavored Surface tablet, which runs Windows 8 Pro (the ARM-based Surface RT is loaded with Windows RT), will arrive in January, priced at $899 (64 GB model) and $999 (128 GB). 

Set to have about half the battery life of the Surface RT, the upcoming device is equipped with an Intel Core i5 processor and has a 10.6-inch (1920 x 1080) ClearType display supporting both finger and pen input, 4 GB of RAM, 802.11 b/g/n/ WiFi, Bluetooth 4.0, a micro SDXC card slot, two 720p HD LifeCams, stereo speakers, an USB 3.0 port, a mini DisplayPort output, and a kickstand. The Surface with Windows 8 Pro is 0.53 inches thick, has a VaporMg casing, and is backed by a one-year warranty.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## LetsDoDamage (Nov 30, 2012)

x86 + 4GB RAM.

Well, thanks MS. Surely they are aware of the limitations of their own 32-bit OS?


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## boogerlad (Nov 30, 2012)

The Surface Pro is running the 64-bit version of Windows 8 Pro.


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## Mathragh (Nov 30, 2012)

I dont think they actually mean its an x86 version of windows 8.
They probably use the 'x86' to distinguish it from the other surface tablet already on the market that only supports apps from the store, and no 'x86' programs.


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## LetsDoDamage (Nov 30, 2012)

Cristian_25H said:


> Through its official blog Microsoft has announced that the x86-flavored Surface tablet





boogerlad said:


> The Surface Pro is running the 64-bit version of Windows 8 Pro.



Just going by what it says in article, so it is running 64-bit?


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## Jstn7477 (Nov 30, 2012)

LetsDoDamage said:


> Just going by what it says in article, so it is running 64-bit?



x86 is loosely used to differentiate this from the ARM RISC architecture. Of course it is going to use 64bit (x86-64) since they stuffed a Core i5 and 4GB of RAM in there.


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## erixx (Nov 30, 2012)

Nomenklatura....... aaaaah 

By the way, it comes with displayport?????????? Flogging a dead horse why??????????

Ah, maybe they want Apple users to plug the Surface into their weird setups?!


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## Jstn7477 (Nov 30, 2012)

erixx said:


> Nomenklatura....... aaaaah
> 
> By the way, it comes with displayport?????????? Flogging a dead horse why??????????
> 
> Ah, maybe they want Apple users to plug the Surface into their weird setups?!



How is DisplayPort a dead horse? HDMI is a pile of suck because anytime you connect your computer to a reasonably priced TV, your computer goes "OMG IT'S A TV MUST NOT SET PROPER SCALING AND 1:1 PIXEL RATIO LET'S MAKE THE PICTURE LOOK AS TERRIBLE AS POSSIBLE HERP DERP" so I'd rather have DisplayPort anyway. Sure, it isn't widely used, but it's better than a standard where 98% of TVs don't even have the right EDID and go nuts when a computer is connected to them via HDMI.


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## erixx (Nov 30, 2012)

Maybe, but I fell never the need to use DisplayPort, well not even the need to look WTF it is! But I know macheads use it more (necessarily mostly for lack of other slu...., sorry slots.)


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 30, 2012)

Finally! A price!  $900 and $1000 are reasonable.


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## Mathragh (Nov 30, 2012)

erixx said:


> Maybe, but I fell never the need to use DisplayPort, well not even the need to look WTF it is! But I know macheads use it more (necessarily mostly for lack of other slu...., sorry slots.)



Displayport is simply a newer and better standard. It supports higher bitrates, daisy chaining of displays, and imo the connector is designed a lot better.

I'd use it over HDMI/DVI/VGA any day, if only more display manufacturers used it.


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## lemonadesoda (Nov 30, 2012)

A long time ago, I when I was in school, I used to have this calculator:







When a tablet comes out with a nice cover/stand like the ipad one, but with a flex keyboard like this on the inside of the cover... I'll be a buyer.


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## Mathragh (Nov 30, 2012)

lemonadesoda said:


> When a tablet comes out with a nice cover/stand like the ipad one, but with a flex keyboard like this on the inside of the cover... I'll be a buyer.



you mean like this?


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## erixx (Nov 30, 2012)

Technically DisplayPort is marvelous, but it is just a minority thing, so that is why i WONDER why it is included in a product conceived for the masses (windows tablets and phones must save MS!)

On the other hand, I already could try a W8 x86 tablet the other week, it runs sweeeeet. If this keyboard is not a flop it could well be a full substitute of the laptop as known until now.


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## Mathragh (Nov 30, 2012)

erixx said:


> Technically DisplayPort is marvelous, but it is just a minority thing, so that is why i WONDER why it is included in a product conceived for the masses (windows tablets and phones must save MS!)



Because with a relatively cheap adaptor(10-15 dollar) you can convert the displayport output to whatever you like. 



erixx said:


> If this keyboard is not a flop it could well be a full substitute of the laptop as known until now.


Anandtech wrote quite a nice review of the surface, with 2 pages dedicated to the two types of keyboards that come with the surface.


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## lemonadesoda (Nov 30, 2012)

Mathragh said:


> you mean like this?
> http://www.netbooknews.com/wp-content/2012/06/microsofttablet0103.jpg


Yes, isn't it clever


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## Frick (Nov 30, 2012)

Do want, but way WAY out of my price range.


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## mtosev (Nov 30, 2012)

hehe that's quite expensive. samsung's RT tablet also costs a lot (650eur) 
http://www.mimovrste.com/artikel/2720006724/tablicni-racunalnik-samsung-ativ-tab-p8510#tech


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## tacosRcool (Nov 30, 2012)

Too bad they use an i3 and then the price would be nicer


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## creepingdeath (Nov 30, 2012)

erixx said:


> Nomenklatura....... aaaaah
> 
> By the way, it comes with displayport?????????? Flogging a dead horse why??????????
> 
> Ah, maybe they want Apple users to plug the Surface into their weird setups?!



Are you kidding me dude?

Displayport is better than HDMI in every way, it supports higher bitrate, has more bandwidth, and has cool features like multiple wireless displays. Displayport is not a MAC port, it is a VESA standard. Displayport was created as a standard long before Apple started using it.

HDMI is also limited to 1080p in most implementations - case in point, all ultrabooks on the market currently use mini HDMI and WILL NOT display 2560x1600 via external port. Only HDMI 1.4a supports higher than 1080p, yet every implementation in ultrabooks for some reason will not support higher than 1080p. I've tried many times - Displayport doesn't have this problem. 

Your opinion is quite uninformed. -- HDMI is garbage, and DP is superior in every way. The fact that there are 10 billion implementation versions of HDMI doesn't help matters, either; good luck finding an HDMI implementation that isn't restricted to a crappy 1080p resolution. I look forward to the surface pro, it might be the first windows solution that will actually be usable at home on my Dell u3011.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

Display port is half of thunderbolt. Thunderbolt uses Display port and PCIexpress in one cable.


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## Drmark (Nov 30, 2012)

10.6 screen and an i5?  Why not add a Invidia 690 with SLI and really jack the price up.  For such a small screen it seems over powered and over priced.  I would buy one if the screen was at least 18"+


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## phanbuey (Nov 30, 2012)

expensive.

most serious software is not designed for this form factor yet, so as of right now this is a $999 screw-around-on-the-internet tablet.


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## naoan (Nov 30, 2012)

4 hours of awkward x86 softwares navigation thanks to them not being optimized for touch. Yeah, thanks but no thanks.

http://www.ghacks.net/2012/11/30/surface-pro-price-and-battery-life-disappoint/


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## Octavean (Nov 30, 2012)

Well I think the price is likely quite reasonable but I would have to see full specs to be sure.

I have an Asus Eee Slate EP121 Core i5 Windows tablet that I upgraded to Windows 8 Pro.  Its older but still reasonably powerful.  It has a 12.1” touch screen with Wacom digitizer (pen input) but given its age the resolution is much lower at 1280x768. When the Asus EP121 was new it cost about ~$1100 USD for the 64GB mSATA SSD version,….

I like the Surface Pro in concept but I don’t like the kickstand or the concept of their attachable keyboard. I much prefer the Asus Transform type of keyboard dock that has a battery, USB ports and the ability to angle the display at varying degrees,…..not just one angle like the Surface kickstand.

Also I really don’t think these attachable keyboards and kickstand design would work very well on an actual lap,…..its just not really designed for that,…..


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## erixx (Nov 30, 2012)

creepingdeath said:


> Are you kidding me dude?
> 
> Displayport is better than HDMI in every way, snip



I know that, but DP is 5% market share. That is more than Apple. LOL for your arguments. Unless MS is making some "for the history channel move" it is still not clear why they "innovate" putting DP on a tablet. 2 USB port plus miniHDMI would be much more "popular" if I am allowed to say that in an uber-killer-elite-geek forum.... haha


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

erixx said:


> I know that, but DP is 5% market share. snip......



DP can easily be converted into HDMI or DVI.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 30, 2012)

don't forget that you immediately lose 16 GB of space due to the bloated OS. for the price, you should just buy a 64GB ipad 3 and get a much better display with a slicker OS, better battery life and better graphics performance.

http://www.techspot.com/news/50717-...ced-in-browser-benchmarks-ipad-3x-faster.html


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> don't forget that you immediately lose 16 GB of space due to the bloated OS. for the price, you should just buy a 64GB ipad 3 and get a much better display with a slicker OS, better battery life and better graphics performance.



Or a nice android equivalent..


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## Mistral (Nov 30, 2012)

erixx said:


> I know that, but DP is 5% market share. That is more than Apple. LOL for your arguments. Unless MS is making some "for the history channel move" it is still not clear why they "innovate" putting DP on a tablet. 2 USB port plus miniHDMI would be much more "popular" if I am allowed to say that in an uber-killer-elite-geek forum.... haha



Would you prefer they would stick to USB2.0 because that's more "popular" and widespread?


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Or a nice android equivalent..



true, and the android tablets are a tad cheaper than the ipad but they are also way less powerful. you see, since the ipad was the first of its kind to hit the consumer market everyone else has been scrambling to come out with a competitor and open up different price point segments. you have cheaper tablets but are generally a lot slower or built like poop and you have things like the surface that are bloated and slow according to every benchmark and require massive processing power to even accomplish the most minimal of tasks. as you can see microsoft sacrificed battery life. pathetic.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> true, and the android tablets are a tad cheaper than the ipad but they are also way less powerful. you see, since the ipad was the first of its kind to hit the consumer market everyone else has been scrambling to come out with a competitor and open up different price point segments. you have cheaper tablets but are generally a lot slower or built like poop and you have things like the surface that are bloated and slow according to every benchmark and require massive processing power to even accomplish the most minimal of tasks. as you can see microsoft sacrificed battery life. pathetic.



The Ipad 3 only has a "Dual core, 1000 MHz, ARM Cortex-A9" when the Google nexus packs "Tegra 3 quad-core processor, 12 core GPU" How is the Ipad faster?


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> The Ipad 3 only has a "Dual core, 1000 MHz, ARM Cortex-A9" when the Google nexus packs "Tegra 3 quad-core processor, 12 core GPU" How is the Ipad faster?



the ipad 3 has a dedicated quad core graphics chip. that and the apple team designed iOS to use every single ounce of its power. something microsoft could never do and never has done and something the android community is still arguing about (open source standards)


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> the ipad 3 has a dedicated quad core graphics chip. that and the apple team designed iOS to use every single ounce of its power. something microsoft could never do and never has done and something the android community is still arguing about (open source standards)



Yea I would agree on the MS part. I would like to see how the Ipads GPU would match the Nvidia on GPU power.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Yea I would agree on the MS part. I would like to see how the Ipads GPU would match the Nvidia on GPU power.



well then check this out...

http://www.redmondpie.com/a5-vs.-a5...-benchmarked-the-winner-is-rather-surprising/

notice how the marks are similiar with the tegra when using the retina display which is simply amazing considering it has almost 3 times the pixels to render. that is why you see the ipad 3 blow away the tegra with the offscreen mode enabled.


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## Drone (Nov 30, 2012)

phanbuey said:


> expensive.
> 
> most serious software is not designed for this form factor yet, so as of right now this is a $999 screw-around-on-the-internet tablet.



True but still better than iPad


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## figuretti (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm ok with my Iconia W700 Bundle


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

Interesting video I found


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Interesting video I found



that is simply a terrible review. the ipad 3 has almost 3 times the pixels to render and it looks better doing it! sure you may lose some "eyecandy" but that simply could be because the developer chose to implement them for the android OS before iOS or simply did not know how to call that API on iOS.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

I have to say I definitely prefer the android OS over windows on tablets and phones.


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## creepingdeath (Nov 30, 2012)

erixx said:


> I know that, but DP is 5% market share. That is more than Apple. LOL for your arguments. Unless MS is making some "for the history channel move" it is still not clear why they "innovate" putting DP on a tablet. 2 USB port plus miniHDMI would be much more "popular" if I am allowed to say that in an uber-killer-elite-geek forum.... haha



5%? If you say so. Anyway, HDMI doesn't support higher than 1080p in most implementations, NO ultrabook on the market will do higher than 1080p via mini HDMI. That is a deal breaker for me, I use a u3011 at home.

HDMI is fine for bigscreen TVs, however it is inferior for an external display. With HDMI, most implementations would require me to use 1080p on my u3011, which is godawful.  The fact of the matter is, Displayport is superior to HDMI; besides which, If you really want HDMI--there are numerous conversion adapters for DP > HDMI.


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## erixx (Nov 30, 2012)

It is okay, I am really not arguing with you, a pleasure by the way, but trying to understand MS's logic behind this. If DP is exotic, your display also is. WHY did they do this? Maybe it is the future. Maybe!


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## Mathragh (Nov 30, 2012)

Imho, a comparison between this and any android/apple tablet is totally useless, for the simple reason that one cannot 99% of the work you can do on a surface pro on any other tablet.

Sure, you can do some writing(on sub-par software), or perhaps some designing(again, not seriously) on an android or apple tablet, but once you start thinking of real production applications, you simply cannot do those on a regular tablet.

Thats where the power of this Surface Pro tablet lies, not in casually browsing on your couch/on the move, but in applications like a fully fledged office suite, photoshop(with a dedicated touch sensor for stylus support with increased resolution thats included in this tablet), or even things like matlab. 

So again, all the people saying you'd better buy a galaxy tab or iPad, you're kinda missing the main point of this tablet imo.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

Until tablets move from the 100MS response times to 1MS of the new touch screens then designing on a tablet is quite garbage.


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## creepingdeath (Nov 30, 2012)

Mathragh said:


> Imho, a comparison between this and any android/apple tablet is totally useless, for the simple reason that one cannot 99% of the work you can do on a surface pro on any other tablet.
> 
> Sure, you can do some writing(on sub-par software), or perhaps some designing(again, not seriously) on an android or apple tablet, but once you start thinking of real production applications, you simply cannot do those on a regular tablet.
> 
> ...



A million times this. I like the ipad but to me, it is nothing more than a toy; for real work I still use my desktop. The surface will actually allow me to do real work without using sub par software - all of the "productivity" apps i've tried on the ipad are a joke. In addition, thanks to x86 compatibility you can do all the fun stuff that one can do on an ipad or android tablet.

This is why the surface pro is enticing to me - it is the size of a tablet but with the full functionality of something much better. I don't have to compromise between work (desktop) and play (ipad)


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## Frick (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Until tablets move from the 100MS response times to 1MS of the new touch screens then designing on a tablet is quite garbage.



I saw a video a while ago where a company (Intel funded iirc) had something like that. Or maybe 10ms, but it was quite cool. I'll see if I can find it.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

Frick said:


> I saw a video a while ago where a company (Intel funded iirc) had something like that. Or maybe 10ms, but it was quite cool. I'll see if I can find it.



Yea I remember seeing the thread about it as well. If they would come out with a screen for tablets using that tech along with very high DPI stylists, we could all become artists!


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## Steevo (Nov 30, 2012)

I know we are moving to devices like this in the next few years, but I want to see an AMD fustion version.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

Steevo said:


> I know we are moving to devices like this in the next few years, but I want to see an AMD fustion version.



I wonder how a say FM2 5800K tablet would go against what we have now in the market (Ipad3, nexus 7, exc)


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## Scrizz (Nov 30, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> don't forget that you immediately lose 16 GB of space due to the bloated OS. for the price, you should just buy a 64GB ipad 3 and get a much better display with a slicker OS, better battery life and better graphics performance.
> 
> http://www.techspot.com/news/50717-...ced-in-browser-benchmarks-ipad-3x-faster.html



lol so you're saying the tablet is better than the computer?

I'd love to get battlefield 1942 on that. lol


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## Mathragh (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Until tablets move from the 100MS response times to 1MS of the new touch screens then designing on a tablet is quite garbage.



I know that in all probability you dont really mean 1ms. This because even the best screens on the market atm dont even have 1ms response times, even when ignoring the whole rendering/processing stages on the PC. Further more, iirc, for designing you need the best color representation possible, which is generally achieved by using IPS panels-> they generally have a response time which is quite a bit slower then regular panels(in the order of 10ms for quick ones).

However, I get your point, and for that matter, I can say from experience, that atleast the surface RT has quite good response times. I know it isnt exactly what you mean, but this shows that the response times on the surface RT, when rendering stuff, is atleast not awefull and compared to the nexus 10 actually quite good.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

Mathragh said:


> I know that in all probability you dont really mean 1ms.....



YES I mean 1MS!

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162232&highlight=1MS


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## Mathragh (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> YES I mean 1MS!
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162232&highlight=1MS



So what you're actually saying is digital design as it is been done at this moment is garbage?
I'm saying this since no screen at the moment, let alone whole system has 1 ms response times, except perhaps the one in your thread, which doesnt really count as a useable design system imho.

Just curious to what you actually mean here.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

I am just saying that the tech is being developed and when it get released into devices such as tablets, it will make for a better designing platform.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 30, 2012)

Scrizz said:


> lol so you're saying the tablet is better than the computer?
> 
> I'd love to get battlefield 1942 on that. lol



huh?


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

I think scrizz though you were talking about the IPAD compared to a PC.


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## Easy Rhino (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> I think scrizz though you were talking about the IPAD compared to a PC.



bah! obviously PC is superior!


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## Frick (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> YES I mean 1MS!
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162232&highlight=1MS



Hey nice you found it. 

This is some time away though, so I don't think it's fair saying current tech is "garbage".


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

Frick said:


> Hey nice you found it.
> 
> This is some time away though, so I don't think it's fair saying current tech is "garbage".



I said designing on a tablet is garbage not that the new "TECH" was garbage...



brandonwh64 said:


> Until tablets move from the 100MS response times to 1MS of the new touch screens then *designing* on a tablet is quite garbage.


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## Steevo (Nov 30, 2012)

If you are designing on a tablet you aren't designing much of anything. Much like trying to do real work on most ultrabooks.


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## Dillinger (Nov 30, 2012)

I can't stand windows 8 it's so ugly


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## Ravenas (Nov 30, 2012)

Dreadful battery life... Ridiculous specs. Priced way too high. This is a flop.


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## _Zod_ (Nov 30, 2012)

This is just another Windows Slate PC MS been flopping with for over a decade. You can get a better spec'ed Ultra-book with longer battery life and less weight for this price. This will remain the niche product the slates have been for years.

It does have a couple of pluses, the digitizer and screen, big whoop. These will not be flying off the shelves especially during a recession.


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## _Zod_ (Nov 30, 2012)

Dillinger said:


> I can't stand windows 8 it's so ugly



While I agree the new front end UI sucks hardcore, once you install a third party app to bypass it so you can boot to the desktop and have a start menu, it's on a par with Windows 7. Though I absolutely HATE the ribbon replacement for a proper menu.


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## NdMk2o1o (Nov 30, 2012)

naoan said:


> 4 hours of awkward x86 softwares navigation thanks to them not being optimized for touch. Yeah, thanks but no thanks.
> 
> http://www.ghacks.net/2012/11/30/surface-pro-price-and-battery-life-disappoint/



Not really, it's a fully fledged tablet that runs metro apps perfectly, if you want to do some serious work on it then use the keyboard and a wireless mouse with it to run your x86 programs. 

I personally think the surface is the sexiest tablet in the market place though it's also priced out of the market for most, the ARM version should have been £300 and the x86 around £600, this would of been perfect pricing to enable mass early adoption imo though I think they are going to milk it for as much as they can get away with at first and they will likely end up around this price.


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## Mathragh (Nov 30, 2012)

NdMk2o1o said:


> Not really, it's a fully fledged tablet that runs metro apps perfectly, if you want to do some serious work on it then use the keyboard and a wireless mouse with it to run your x86 programs.
> 
> I personally think the surface is the sexiest tablet in the market place though it's also priced out of the market for most, the ARM version should have been £300 and the x86 around £600, this would of been perfect pricing to enable mass early adoption imo though I think they are going to milk it for as much as they can get away with at first and they will likely end up around this price.



This. The only problem with this is that they totally outplay all their hardware partners that way, hence the higher price.


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## fullinfusion (Nov 30, 2012)

Ummm, Hmmm, Not this guy! It must be made of gold for the price. thanks but no thanks MS


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## Dillinger (Dec 1, 2012)

_Zod_ said:


> While I agree the new front end UI sucks hardcore, once you install a third party app to bypass it so you can boot to the desktop and have a start menu, it's on a par with Windows 7. Though I absolutely HATE the ribbon replacement for a proper menu.


 back when Windows 8 came out in beta i got, installed it, & hated it lol I agree with you it runs great but those stupid squares lol (ugly part) but the functionality yucky IMO


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## Octavean (Dec 1, 2012)

I think people that were interested in the PC tablet market before Windows 8 release previews (say when Windows 7 tablet hardware was new) and researched it were well aware of the price range of the hardware.   The Microsoft Surface pro and other Windows 8 PC (x86 / x64) tablets can be considered an Ivy Bridge upgrade from previous Sandy Bridge tablets. The prices in some cases are even lower by comparison.

I think the people suggesting the price should be lower aren’t using such a frame of reference and just wont it to be cheaper.


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## Am* (Dec 1, 2012)

Give it 6 months, it will be about $599 by then...


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## exodusprime1337 (Dec 1, 2012)

LetsDoDamage said:


> Just going by what it says in article, so it is running 64-bit?



they are referring to it not being arm


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## MxPhenom 216 (Dec 1, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> don't forget that you immediately lose 16 GB of space due to the bloated OS. for the price, you should just buy a 64GB ipad 3 and get a much better display with a slicker OS, better battery life and better graphics performance.
> 
> http://www.techspot.com/news/50717-...ced-in-browser-benchmarks-ipad-3x-faster.html



Windows 8 Isn't Bloated At All. It's One Of The Smaller OSs From Msoft


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## avatar_raq (Dec 1, 2012)

I am sure there will be other win 8 pro tablets with more power efficient cpus like atom or amd's stuff with decent performance, better price and superior battery life. We just need to wait and see.


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## Octavean (Dec 1, 2012)

Am* said:


> Give it 6 months, it will be about $599 by then...





Well there are 64GB and 128GB SSD versions of the Microsoft Surface Pro and other Windows 8 x86 / x64 tablets with similar pricing in the market as well.   Given the variety I can say with certainty that the above quote is inaccurate. There is virtually no way that both the ~$900 (64 GB SSD) and ~$1000 (128GB SSD) will both drop to $600.

Furthermore the logic that suggest a significant pending price drop like that  (33% for the former and 40% for the latter) ignores the fact that there was no such price drop for their predecessors similar to this in the Windows 7 PC tablet market (even after models were replaced with Windows 8 tablets). 

So if it didn’t happen before why would it happen now? 

Also even if it did happen it likely would be a sign of serious problems in the PC market as a whole and serious economic issues beyond that if such a product could be so devalued in such a short time. It’s the type of thing people probably shouldn’t wish for,…..like AMD significantly dropping their prices even further,…given their tenuous position. 

If anything I expect there “might” be some deals like possibly dropping the price of the attachable keyboards to nothing with purchase of a Surface Pro and maybe some cash off for a limited time but not ~$300 to ~$400 respectively,….


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## mediasorcerer (Dec 2, 2012)

MS have lost the plot.


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## Dos101 (Dec 2, 2012)

tacosRcool said:


> Too bad they use an i3 and then the price would be nicer



Actually it's i5 Ivy Bridge



Drmark said:


> 10.6 screen and an i5?  Why not add a Invidia 690 with SLI and really jack the price up.  For such a small screen it seems over powered and over priced.  I would buy one if the screen was at least 18"+



Because, you know, heat and power. They're not aiming for the gaming community here. I don;t see how it's overprices compared to the competition (though IMHO it should be $100 cheaper since it doesn't include the keyboard).



Easy Rhino said:


> don't forget that you immediately lose 16 GB of space due to the bloated OS. for the price, you should just buy a 64GB ipad 3 and get a much better display with a slicker OS, better battery life and better graphics performance.



But you wouldn't be able to do as much on it compared to Surface Pro (depending on your needs though, of course). I would argue with the OS part as well. IOS is far from slick. Yes it's refined and works and runs well, but it looks outdated and it takes so many steps to actually do anything in it.



Steevo said:


> I know we are moving to devices like this in the next few years, but I want to see an AMD fustion version.



Supposedly Surface 2 is AMD (take this with a massive grain of salt though) http://www.neowin.net/news/rumors-of-surface-tablet-successors-and-specs-appear


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## Konceptz (Dec 3, 2012)

$900!?!?!...for that!?!?! No thanks..I'll be buying another laptop for that price.


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## Octavean (Dec 3, 2012)

The Asus  Eee Slate EP121 Core i5 based Windows 7 tablet and Samsung Series 7 Windows 7 (Core i5) tablet series pricing were slightly more expensive then the Microsoft Surface Pro and other Windows 8 Pro tablets. So a price break is already there. 

People suggesting The Microsoft Surface Pro and other Windows 8 Pro tablets should be cheaper seem to think or suggest that products like this never existed before or are unprecedented when they are in fact only the latest generation. 

Or perhaps you are confusing them with cheaper less powerful ARM based tablets,…



Easy Rhino said:


> don't forget that you immediately lose 16 GB of space due to the bloated OS. for the price, you should just buy a 64GB ipad 3 and get a much better display with a slicker OS, better battery life and better graphics performance.
> 
> http://www.techspot.com/news/50717-...ced-in-browser-benchmarks-ipad-3x-faster.html



This statement isn’t completely accurate or possibly outright wrong. You are likely confusing the Windows RT based Microsoft Surface tablet with the as of yet unreleased Surface Pro Windows 8 Pro tablet. 

The average Windows 8 Pro 64bit install footprint is likely greater then 16GB. The Windows 8 Pro 32bit install footprint may fit into a 16GB envelope but I don’t think OEMs will choose to go that route. However, if the Microsoft Surface Pro is anything like the Asus Eee Slate EP121 Core i5 based tablet PC then the installed mSATA SSD is user upgradeable. I can upgrade the default OEM 64GB mSATA  SSD on my Asus model to ~240GB / ~256GB or greater.  I can also upgrade the Bluetooth / WiFi module to support IEEE 802.11ac,….


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## Ravenas (Dec 3, 2012)

Octavean said:


> The Asus  Eee Slate EP121 Core i5 based Windows 7 tablet and Samsung Series 7 Windows 7 (Core i5) tablet series pricing were slightly more expensive then the Microsoft Surface Pro and other Windows 8 Pro tablets. So a price break is already there.
> 
> People suggesting The Microsoft Surface Pro and other Windows 8 Pro tablets should be cheaper seem to think or suggest that products like this never existed before or are unprecedented when they are in fact only the latest generation.
> 
> ...




All of this doesn't matter what so ever. The fact is Windows 8 tablets are priced way too high. People are going to by the iPad long before they ever buy these simply because of price point. Microsoft had a great idea to have the same UI across all of their devices, but they are dead in the water due to price.


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## Mathragh (Dec 3, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> All of this doesn't matter what so ever. The fact is Windows 8 tablets are priced way too high. People are going to by the iPad long before they ever buy these simply because of price point. The Microsoft had a great idea to have the same UI across all of their devices, but they are dead in the water due to price.



Once again, comparing the iPad to the surface pro is totally useless, unless you plan to grossly misuse the surface pro(or RT for that matter) for just singletasking mediaconsumption programs.

I dont understand why people keep complaining about some comparison that is flat out wrong. The Surface pro strong point is something the iPad, or any android tablet cannot even do, let alone compete with, so any comparison on that front is useless.


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## Ravenas (Dec 3, 2012)

Mathragh said:


> Once again, comparing the iPad to the surface pro is totally useless, unless you plan to grossly misuse the surface pro(or RT for that matter) for just singletasking mediaconsumption programs.
> 
> I dont understand why people keep complaining about some comparison that is flat out wrong. The Surface pro strong point is something the iPad, or any android tablet cannot even do, let alone compete with, so any comparison on that front is useless.



No. The surface is being advertised as a table. Thus the comparison is completely fine.


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## Mathragh (Dec 3, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> No. The surface is being advertised as a table. Thus the comparison is completely fine.



By definition, a tablet is just that; a tablet. Its just a form factor, noone dictates you on what you should do with it. But ofc, you can just keep believing whatever you want to believe.


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## Octavean (Dec 3, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> All of this doesn't matter what so ever. The fact is Windows 8 tablets are priced way too high. People are going to by the iPad long before they ever buy these simply because of price point. Microsoft had a great idea to have the same UI across all of their devices, but they are dead in the water due to price.



Too high for who,....?

And there are plenty of people who say the iPad is priced too high.

And there are plenty of people who would never by a PC in tablet form.

And so on,…. 

And so forth,…

The relevance of which is up to the individual,….

We are still going back (unfortunately) to the comparison of Windows 8 PC tablets to ARM devices. They are simply not the same, they don’t perform the same way and they often don’t  cost the same. There is room in the market for more then just one type of tablet. In the PC market you pay for powerful hardware and you typically pay even more for powerful hardware in a smaller package then you would in a larger one. This is one reason many people dislike the trend towards mobile computing. But in that direction the industry is going and some say it will be the end of the PC as we know it. 

For what its worth, there are Atom based PC tablets that are closer in price to ARM based tablets (~$600+ish). Maybe even Core i3 based tablets,….

Older gen Windows 7 tablets could probably be found for less,...



Mathragh said:


> Once again, comparing the iPad to the surface pro is totally useless, unless you plan to grossly misuse the surface pro(or RT for that matter) for just singletasking mediaconsumption programs.
> 
> I dont understand why people keep complaining about some comparison that is flat out wrong. The Surface pro strong point is something the iPad, or any android tablet cannot even do, let alone compete with, so any comparison on that front is useless.



I agree with this sentiment 100%



Ravenas said:


> No. The surface is being advertised as a table. Thus the comparison is completely fine.



With this statement you are making it seem as if there is no distinction between the Surface, Surface Pro, Windows RT, Windows 8 and any tablet that runs the respective OSes.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 3, 2012)

Surface Pro is a 10.6" touch-screen ultrabook.  An example competitive product is the Dell XPS 12 Ultrabook and Apple MacBook Air.

Surface is a 10.6" tablet.  An example competitive product is the Dell XPS 10 Tablet and Apple iPad.


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## naoan (Dec 3, 2012)

Octavean said:


> With this statement you are making it seem as if there is no distinction between the Surface, Surface Pro, Windows RT, Windows 8 and any tablet that runs the respective OSes.



Yeah, that's what most customers who walk into the store going to believe. Thanks to MS muddying up the confusion further with their non-x86 RT tablet.


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## Octavean (Dec 3, 2012)

naoan said:


> Yeah, that's what most customers who walk into the store going to believe. Thanks to MS muddying up the confusion further with their non-x86 RT tablet.



I agree that the average uninitiated  (inexperienced / unaware / ignorant / barely computer literate) consumer will have a tough time distinguishing between the Microsoft Surface and Surface Pro as well as Windows RT and Windows 8.  Some people will never get it and that is partially why dummed down ARM devices are so popular. 

I expect that TPU forum members as well as other tech forums will be better informed though,…..

Use of the term or name “Surface / Surface Pro” in general is a bad idea IMO because it confuses the issue and makes people think of it as a singular product like the iPad which it is not.


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## Ravenas (Dec 3, 2012)

Octavean said:


> I agree that the average uninitiated  (inexperienced / unaware / ignorant / barely computer literate) consumer will have a tough time distinguishing between the Microsoft Surface and Surface Pro as well as Windows RT and Windows 8.  Some people will never get it and that is partially why dummed down ARM devices are so popular.
> 
> I expect that TPU forum members as well as other tech forums will be better informed though,…..
> 
> Use of the term or name “Surface / Surface Pro” in general is a bad idea IMO because it confuses the issue and makes people think of it as a singular product like the iPad which it is not.



What you don't understand, which it seems like you never will is this: I know what Windows RT and Windows Pro are (and most other members of this forum do as well). You don't have to keep explaining what the differences are to every user as soon as they create a post that is negative in regards to Surface Pro. You seem to be trying to "gain credibility" by listing off specs that are easily found and commonly known.

*The Surface Pro is overpriced for what it is.*

I can get an i7 laptop that is extremely light and extremely thin for less than this. OEMs are going to start installing Windows 8 Pro on there own forms of tablet/laptops and then begin raping Microsoft on this price point.


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## Octavean (Dec 3, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> What you don't understand, which it seems like you never will is this: I know what Windows RT and Windows Pro are (and most other members of this forum do as well). You don't have to keep explaining what the differences are to every user as soon as they create a post that is negative in regards to Surface Pro. You seem to be trying to "gain credibility" by listing off specs that are easily found and commonly known.
> 
> *The Surface Pro is overpriced for what it is.*
> 
> I can get an i7 laptop that is extremely light and extremely thin for less than this. OEMs are going to start installing Windows 8 Pro on there own forms of tablet/laptops and then begin raping Microsoft on this price point.



With all due respect, I think you intended to say:


> “I know what Windows RT and Windows *8* Pro are (and most other members of this forum do as well).”



However I can only guess you didn’t understand my post because I was only suggesting that people who take the time to read and post in tech forums *will * likely be able to tell the difference and that general consumers probably wouldn’t.  

Microsoft may have released full specs on the Surface Pro but  I don’t recall seeing a full spec sheet. For example, “Intel Core i5 Ivy Bridge CPU” doesn’t specify a model and CPU model would be a factor in overall price. This wouldn’t matter if there is only one Core i5 Ivy Bridge mobile CPU though (i5-3360M, i5-3320M, i5-3427U).  

Furthermore your suggesting that OEM’s will release Windows 8 Pro tablets and laptops and undercut the pricing suggests that you are unaware that OEM’s have already released products. For what its worth there is a range (Atom, i3, i5 and for laptops i7) but the pricing is similar to Microsoft’s offering in the Surface Pro for similar OEM hardware in the same form-factor.  An example of this is Acer Iconia Tab W700 series, Acer Iconia Tab W500 series, Samsung ATIV SmartPC Pro XE500xx, Samsung ATIV SmartPC Pro XE700xx,….

As I stated before though, when you shrink the product you often pay more money with respect to processing power.  So comparing a general 17”, 15” or 13” laptop to a sub 11” screen PC touch tablet isn’t the same thing.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 3, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> What you don't understand, which it seems like you never will is this: I know what Windows RT and Windows Pro are (and most other members of this forum do as well). You don't have to keep explaining what the differences are to every user as soon as they create a post that is negative in regards to Surface Pro. You seem to be trying to "gain credibility" by listing off specs that are easily found and commonly known.
> 
> *The Surface Pro is overpriced for what it is.*
> 
> I can get an i7 laptop that is extremely light and extremely thin for less than this. OEMs are going to start installing Windows 8 Pro on there own forms of tablet/laptops and then begin raping Microsoft on this price point.


Look at the links I provided above.  Surface Pro is priced competitively for ultrabook/tablet.  Yes, you can get old fashion laptops for less and better equiped but it isn't an old fashion laptop.


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## Drmark (Dec 3, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Look at the links I provided above.  Surface Pro is priced competitively for ultrabook/tablet.  Yes, you can get old fashion laptops for less and better equiped but it isn't an old fashion laptop.



True, much smaller screen, less everything for the price.
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...el_id=inspiron-15r-5520&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19

Less than 800$.  3rd gen I7, bigger screen, more ram, more everything.  This ain't old tech.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 3, 2012)

No touch screen.  33.5mm thick versus 13.5mm.  People aren't going to look at Surface Pro (and similar products) unless they determine a touchscreen is absolutely required.


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## Dos101 (Dec 3, 2012)

Drmark said:


> True, much smaller screen, less everything for the price.
> http://configure.us.dell.com/dellst...el_id=inspiron-15r-5520&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19
> 
> Less than 800$.  3rd gen I7, bigger screen, more ram, more everything.  This ain't old tech.



I'd rather pay the extra couple for the Surface Pro and get better build quality and a nicer design rather than risk it with that Dell. Specs aren't everything (unless you absolutely don't care about how the device looks/feels).


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## Octavean (Dec 3, 2012)

Dos101 said:


> I'd rather pay the extra couple for the Surface Pro and get better build quality and a nicer design rather than risk it with that Dell. Specs aren't everything (unless you absolutely don't care about how the device looks/feels).



Actually I have heard of some Microsoft Surface (Windows RT) tablet build quality issues and some type / touch cover keyboard issues,….

One can only hope that the Surface Pro (Windows 8 Pro) tablet and accompanying type / touch cover keyboards do not have such problems when released. 

http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-admits-surface-keyboard-splitting-problem-7000007189/

I don’t really care for the kickstand design of the Surface / Surface Pro or the type / touch cover. It seems like a gimmick that isn’t altogether practical (at least not on ones lap). I prefer the keyboard dock design of the Asus Transdformer series with battery, USB ports, angle options (unlike a kickstand) and sturdy base / keys. 

Also, for what its worth, its not clear to me if some of the cheaper Intel Atom based Windows 8 tablets have Windows 8 rather then Windows 8 Pro,….not really sure. 

The Acer Iconia W510-1674 is comparatively cheap on the Windows online store at $499 but it is expensive for the specs IMO. Intel Atom Z2760 1.50 Ghz CPU (boo!), 2GB DDR2 RAM, 1366 x 768 resolution screen and so on,….isn’t very attractive IMO. Such specs aren’t really comparable to the specs we have seen of the Surface Pro as well as similar OEM Windows 8 Pro tablets.


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## Dos101 (Dec 3, 2012)

Octavean said:


> Actually I have heard of some Microsoft Surface (Windows RT) tablet build quality issues and some type / touch cover keyboard issues,….
> 
> One can only hope that the Surface Pro (Windows 8 Pro) tablet and accompanying type / touch cover keyboards do not have such problems when released.
> 
> ...



I know some of the touch keyboards have had issues, but it always looked like to me that the number of actual defective tablets were well within reason (every consumer electronic product in existence has some level of defective units).

In regards to the kickstand design, I can see how for some people it serves no purpose, but I've been able to make it work, even on my lap while sitting on my couch (though typing on the type keyboard can be a little hit or miss if it's not sitting on something solid). But luckily there are many other tablets/convertibles to choose from, so you can usually find one to suit your needs.

I've never been impressed by Intel Atom devices. They've always been too slow for what I want to do while sucking up too much power.


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## Octavean (Dec 4, 2012)

Dos101 said:


> I know some of the touch keyboards have had issues, but it always looked like to me that the number of actual defective tablets were well within reason (every consumer electronic product in existence has some level of defective units).
> 
> In regards to the kickstand design, I can see how for some people it serves no purpose, but I've been able to make it work, even on my lap while sitting on my couch (though typing on the type keyboard can be a little hit or miss if it's not sitting on something solid). But luckily there are many other tablets/convertibles to choose from, so you can usually find one to suit your needs.
> 
> I've never been impressed by Intel Atom devices. They've always been too slow for what I want to do while sucking up too much power.



Fair enough,…

Thanks for sharing that firsthand info on the Surface. I’m partial to Asus products so if I were to buy a Windows 8 Pro tablet I would probably go for an Asus model if possible (maybe not though ). However, I did like the Acer Iconia W700 line but losing the one feature that made it standout in the retail product (AKA Intel Thunderbolt) was a little puzzling. In theory you could have connected a desktop GPU to the Acer Iconia W700 had it retained Thunderbolt support,….and more expansion options,…. 

Ultimately, I’m OK without a keyboard dock or built in way to keep the tablet upright. I’m fine with my Asus Eee Slate EP121 Core i5 tablet for now (comes with its own folio case) and have installed Windows 8 Pro RTM on it since I have a Technet subscription (although I did buy a Windows 8 Pro license). 

I've never been impressed with Intel Atom devices either,…...


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