# Having some trouble with networking - advice needed



## t_ski (Dec 17, 2007)

It never fails: I always seem to come up with some kind of problem no one has ever seen before, nor have any idea how to fix.  However, with my desparation (ie: the wife is very pissed @ me right now), I figured I'd put our new Networking forum to the test and see if you guys can figure this one out.  Let's start at the beginning...

I have one PC running Windows XP Pro SP2 (the one in my sig & System Profile) which is wired into a DSL modem/gateway/router/WAP.  I also have two laptops with b/g Broadcom cards preinstalled (with no PCMCIA slots available to use).  I previously had the network running smoothly, sharing files on each machine as well as a printer connected to the main PC.  For security, I was using 128-bit WEP.  After taking several classes dealing with wireless and security, I felt WEP was no longer a wise choice, and wanted to switch to WPA-PSK.

At first, I was able to get WPA-PSK configured and working, but my wife's laptop kept getting the "Limited connection or no availability" warning whenever she booted the laptop.  Every single time she turned it on, she would have to go in and "repair" the connection for it to work.  It seemed as though this may have something to do with DHCP, as the error occurred with the laptop's IP address being outside the pool.  I tried to assign a static IP address, and that worked everytime i rebooted.  However, the first time it powered down completely and then back up, the error was back.

In the process of trying to figure this out, I realized that the machines were no longer connecting to each other, although the laptops could still access the internet just fine.  I talked with two of my teachers, who gave me the standard line about updating drivers and firmware.  I updated the drivers on the wife's laptop, as well as the HP Wireless Assistant.  I also updated the firmware on my DSL modem to the latest one available.  Unfortunately, nothing is working.  The firmware update may have even caused more issues, because I can't even get back to WEP.

Things I have tried:

Reset the DSL modem - no change
Made sure the computers were in the same network - MSHOME
Tried renaming the network to HomeNetwork - no change
Pinged the main PC's loopback address - works
Pinged the main PC's IP address (192.168.1.35) - works
Pinged the laptop's IP address (192.168.1.33) from the main PC - times out (as it should if it is not finding anything in Network Places anyway)
Pinged the laptop's loopback address - works
Pinged the laptop's IP address - works
Pinged the main PC's IP address from the laptop - times out (as it should if it is not finding anything in Network Places anyway)
Ran Window's Network Connection Wizard - no change
Ran Window's Wireless Network Connection Wizard - no change

Probably tried a few other things too, but I can't remember them offhand.  I'll add them as I remember them.

Anybody have any suggestions?


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## DaMulta (Dec 17, 2007)

Install IPX and see what happens.


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## t_ski (Dec 17, 2007)

Why do you suggest that?  IPX is necessary for (older) Netware systems, but not really for MS or most other current OSs.


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## DaMulta (Dec 17, 2007)

That's what I always do when windows gives me a fit with a network.

It seems to fix all of those mind headache problems that pleage windows from time to time(Without reinstalling). 






It's funny my dads a network engineer for BP and I still get confused with network systems.


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## t_ski (Dec 17, 2007)

Yeah, well I'm a second year student in a NetAdmin program and have CompTIA Network+ certification, and this baffles me.


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## DaMulta (Dec 17, 2007)

try the ipx just to see what it does.


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## t_ski (Dec 17, 2007)

OK, I installed it on one laptop and the main PC, but it made no difference.


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## DaMulta (Dec 17, 2007)

last resort didn't help.....

did you reset your router?


Start with the basics check the wires.


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## wiak (Dec 17, 2007)

firewall on laptop?


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## t_ski (Dec 17, 2007)

Yes, I did reset the router (several times actually).  As for wires, the main PC connects to the internet through the DSL modem/router just fine, so the cable should not be faulty.  As for the laptop, its connection is wireless, so there are no wires to check 

However, your suggestion did give me an idea.  I connected the laptop to the switch directly with a cable, and disabled the wireless connection.  I'm getting an error that says "network is not accessible.  You may not have permission to use this network source... (yada-yada-yada)... The list of servers for this workgroup is not currently available."

@ wiak - I have McAfee's firewall on the laptop, the same as it always was.  I had it on the PC, too, but the subscription for the Internet Security Suite expired, so I uninstalled it, set up XP's standard firewall on the PC, and have installed Avast for anti-virus.  I can try XP's firewall on the laptop, too.


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## DaMulta (Dec 17, 2007)

Are you on DSL? Does your DLS modem have it's own IP address?(Which shouldn't matter)
But d(ame it sliped my mind on what it was) at work we had DSL for 2 weeks and they where using this old old system that messed with ours.(But I think it was the incomming FTP and so on)it was a few months ago.

----

Do you have a crossover cable to try one computer to another.

Has the internet been working?


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## t_ski (Dec 17, 2007)

Yes, I'm on DSL.  The router's IP address is 192.168.1.1.  It's also the default gateway and DNS server by default.

I just uninstalled McAfee and restored the Window's firewall.  Still not working.  I have a crossover cable I could try...


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## Namslas90 (Dec 17, 2007)

Try removing  XP Hotfix Q815485 as it tends to corrupt wireless network adaptor software.

Goto Add/remove programs and check box to "show updates" then remove.  If it doesn't solve the problem you can always just go back to Windows updates and reload it.


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## t_ski (Dec 17, 2007)

OK, I installed the crossover cable and it still would not work.  Then I turned off the Windows firewall on the laptop and then it found the PC. 

Now how do I set the firewall to allow the PC to connect to the laptop?


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## t_ski (Dec 17, 2007)

Namslas90 said:


> Try removing  XP Hotfix Q815485 as it tends to corrupt wireless network adaptor software.
> 
> Goto Add/remove programs and check box to "show updates" then remove.  If it doesn't solve the problem you can always just go back to Windows updates and reload it.



Didn't see that one loaded, but they did have a roll-out that was supposed to fix some of those issues:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/826942/


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## lemonadesoda (Dec 17, 2007)

THIS IS A VERY COMMON PROBLEM WITH WIRELESS IN YOUR NETWORK.

Q: What's causing the problem?
A: After time the router gets difficult maining or issuing new DHCP over wireless, or WPA-SK over wireless.  There can also be IP conflicts where more than one device is given the same address and it brings the whole router down. Nothing other than a full network reboot can solve it.  Also make sure there arent any devices with "persistant" IP addresses.  An unexpected router table might be overriding DHCP.

Your options are as follows:

1./ Do-it-all routers are fine in concept... but a more robust approach is to use a router SEPARATE from your wireless access point SEPARATE from your modem. It means more equipment and more power sockets.... yes I hate that too... but so often these consumer all-in-ones are less than reliable. (Its as much a software and memory management issue as hardware issue on the device).

2./ Put one of those "timer controllers" between the wall socket and the power supply on your router and/or access point so that it gets a "hard reset" in the middle of the night every day, e.g. 3am-3:05 am.

3./ Switch to WEP. Slightly less secure but also less complicated for your router/access point.  PS. There are many enterprise wireless devices with ONLY work on WEP for certain functions, e.g. LAN bridging.

4./ Set up an IP address table for your LAN.  Put, e.g. your fixed infrastructure e.g. routers and printers in the range x.x.x.1 to x.x.x.99.  Put your wired PCs on DHCP in the range x.x.x.100 to x.x.x.199 and but your wireless devices on FIXED in the range x.x.x.200 to x.x.x.255

Repeat: DHCP can fail over wireless when the router is on >24hrs. I know this sounds odd... but sharing from community experience.


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## lemonadesoda (Dec 17, 2007)

NOTE:  Some people have solved similar issues just installing the "clunky fix" #2

I fixed the issue by implementing #1, #3, #4. (Didnt need to do #2)


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## t_ski (Dec 17, 2007)

The dsl modem/router has a static IP address of 192.168.1.1.  The PC and the laptops use DHCP and pull from the pool of 192.168.1.33 to 192.168.1.64.  However, the machines always pull the same IP address, even if the leases expire.  I have never had any kind of issue with DHCP failing in the past two+ years of using this setup.

Do you have any links to the info you posted?  I'd be interested in checking them out - I'm reading everything I can on the subject right now.

However, I do think this has a lot to do with the Windows firewall at the moment.  After I was able to get the two to connect with a crossover cable and disabling the XP firewall, it seems to make sense.  I'm trying to find some links on setting the firewall to allow each other machine, but I'm not having much luck finding that exact topic.   Anybody have any links for that?


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## t_ski (Dec 17, 2007)

I forgot to mention, I looked in the firewall exceptions and File and Print sharing is allowed (box is checked).


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## pt (Dec 17, 2007)

get back to wep, and use a mac adress filter on the router
or just don't use the wep at all, and just the mac, unless you got a 1337 hacker has a neighbour it will be fine


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## t_ski (Dec 17, 2007)

That still doesn't help me with the firewall, and does nothing to make sure that private health information doesn't get lost.  My wife works for a very big insurance company - if she's working on some insurance policies with your PHI on there, do you want to risk it being stolen?  We can't afford the legal bills if it does.


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## lemonadesoda (Dec 17, 2007)

Quite simply, WTF is she doing with other people's PHI in your home? That should be on a secure locked down corporate server. What's the name of the insurance company she is working with. I think you have whistleblower protection here... NAME AND SHAME


P.S. 2 people have independently told you to try a different wireless solution. I think you should try their advice.


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## pt (Dec 17, 2007)

i have to agree with lemonadesoda here, as far as i can see she shouldn't work with these at home


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## t_ski (Dec 17, 2007)

lemonadesoda said:


> Quite simply, WTF is she doing with other people's PHI in your home? That should be on a secure locked down corporate server. What's the name of the insurance company she is working with. I think you have whistleblower protection here... NAME AND SHAME



Um, she is allowed to do that.  She holds the second highest position in the office, and sometimes needs to bring her laptop home (the same one that docks on her desk).  Usually there isn't anything to worry about, but if someone emails her a question about a claim or something, then it could be there.  However, she is extremely aware of HIPPA regularions and such more than any of you might be, and she can handle herself in an extremely professional manner.  None of this is the point.  Besides, she only connects through a VPN, and never through the wireless.  It's mearly an afterthought at this point.



> P.S. 2 people have independently told you to try a different wireless solution. I think you should try their advice.



If, in the end I need to do that, I may, but for right now I'd like to see if I can work with what I have.  It's actually a high-end DSL modem/router and I think I can make it do what I need to.


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## lemonadesoda (Dec 18, 2007)

t_ski said:


> ...extremely aware of HIPPA regularions and such *more than any of you might be*...


That kind of arrogance wont get you far here mate. If your wife is such a shit hot corporate jetsetter then get her to call her IT department to come round to her house and fix what her husband cant solve. Stop trying to solve everything on a shoestring. We are talking serious security issues and serious liability risk. Your IP has been noted and sent to the NAIC.:shadedshu


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## theonetruewill (Dec 18, 2007)

lemonadesoda said:


> That kind of arrogance wont get you far here mate. If your wife is such a shit hot corporate jetsetter then get her to call her IT department to come round to her house and fix what her husband cant solve. Stop trying to solve everything on a shoestring. We are talking serious security issues and serious liability risk. Your IP has been noted and sent to the NAIC.:shadedshu



I think this is a case of "husband defends wife." Let's leave it at that shall we
Move on.


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## t_ski (Dec 18, 2007)

Thanks theonetruewill.  It's not even that.  It's only about making my network secure enough *IF* PHI were to be on the laptop.

I think this is going way too far.  The truth is, this is about her personal laptop, and my quest to make the network secure enough to be able to use her corporate laptop at home.  No PHI has been brought home, nothing has been lost.  I was merely trying to improve the security enough to satisfy that requirement, but her work laptop has not been used on the wireless network.  As stated before, she has a secure VPN connection that is always used to access the work servers, and there are multiple security measures on the corporate side to prevent data loss.

I ask that you go back and read the thread from the beginning and don't read into the situation any more than what was stated.  The company's IT department has nothing to do with my personal network, so there is nothing for them to fix.

Lemonadesoda, I appreciate your concern, but I ask that you make some contributions to the solution, and not just wildly throw around accusations.  The point was this:



> *if* she's working on some insurance policies with your PHI on there, do you want to risk it being stolen?





> *if* someone emails her a question about a claim or something, then it *could* be there.



Again, nothing has been brought home, nothing was exposed or lost.


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## pt (Dec 18, 2007)

omg, i'm rofling hard at the last 3 or 4 posts  
when it's all secure, go for it


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## craigwhiteside (Dec 18, 2007)

hmm, have you tried disabling both firewalls, most firewalls allow the ping request but will block others, so that might be your problem.


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## t_ski (Dec 19, 2007)

Yes, I posted that earlier in the thread.  I was able to disable the firewalls and the two could see eah other's shared items.  The problem I'm having right now is that both firewalls have "File and Print Sharing" enabled in the exclusions list, but they are still blocking each other.

I think the problem is from McAfee firewall being removed, and for some reason XP's firewall is not configured right.  I was thinking about putting McAfee back on and seeing if that works, but I just haven't had the chance yet.


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## Snipe343 (Dec 19, 2007)

did you say the routers ip is 192.168.1.1?


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## DaMulta (Dec 19, 2007)

system restore


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## t_ski (Dec 19, 2007)

Snipe343 said:


> did you say the routers ip is 192.168.1.1?



Yes


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## Snipe343 (Dec 19, 2007)

If your having trouble connecting to the internet on the wifes comp. change the ip of the router. Thats the default ip and is really only meant to be running one computer to avoid conflicts. I donno if it will help but it did when i did my networking. Also should let you do whatever you want with security as mine did.


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## t_ski (Dec 19, 2007)

I could do that.  So are you suggesting to change it to anything, or something more specific like 192.168.1.*2*?


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## mrhuggles (Dec 22, 2007)

LOL oh man, ok in your router there should be a setting called G mode protection, enable that, also check to make sure its in mixed mode [b + g], also there is a setting to make sure that either the clients can connect to eachother, or they are set to connect to eachother only through the router forget what its called but play with it, also there is a setting that sets max associeated clients, check to make sure that that is at a high enough setting, it probably is but... oh yeah and long preamble, thats a good thing.... also you might try limiting her to b mode, honestly i have seen tons of problems when you have like say, a router with a broadcom and an atheros chip in a device, and usualy the problem is due to g only mode, and setting to mixed fixes it, mmm does she have problems on other peoples routers too?


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## Darknova (Dec 22, 2007)

I had this problem a while ago. It was all the fault of DHCP. If you're running a small personal network you have no need for DHCP what so ever. You have 256 ip addresses to choose from. That's more than enough eh?

Give every single device a static IP address and make sure DHCP is disabled to free up the ips x.x.x.100 to x.x.x.200

I've never gotten any sort of secure network to work with DHCP properly. Maybe it's just how my network is set up, but it's nice, secure and fast, don't need much else really?


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## mrhuggles (Dec 22, 2007)

yeah, a good router is a wonderfull thing, everything works flawlessly and does so for like ever


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## t_ski (Dec 23, 2007)

Darknova said:


> I had this problem a while ago. It was all the fault of DHCP. If you're running a small personal network you have no need for DHCP what so ever. You have 256 ip addresses to choose from. That's more than enough eh?
> 
> Give every single device a static IP address and make sure DHCP is disabled to free up the ips x.x.x.100 to x.x.x.200
> 
> I've never gotten any sort of secure network to work with DHCP properly. Maybe it's just how my network is set up, but it's nice, secure and fast, don't need much else really?



I actually had DHCP working fine until I enabled WPA, but then it wouldn't work well.  I noticed that the laptop seemed to be trying to join the network with an "out-of-range" IP address and I was getting limited or no connectivity messages.  At that point I tried assigning static IP addresses, which worked fine on multiple reboots.  However, the first time the machine shut down completely then powered back up, I got the same message again.

@ mrhuggles - it is in mixed mode, and I haven't seen g protected mode (just g+ mode).  I also know there are enough associated clients, but I haven't seen anything on the preamble.  And TBH, I haven't ever used the laptop anywhere else but at home.  I've used my daughter's laptop at school and at some hotels while traveling, so there were no issues with that one.


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## mrhuggles (Dec 23, 2007)

man, i would go ahead and get a proper router, a proper router can be cheaper to get than a new one even tho new ones suck so bad

about that g+ mode, are there any other settings? g+ doesnt sound very compatible..

besides, its already figured out for you, use logical deduction, it works without WPA [why not useing WPA2?] WPA is messing up your dhcp on the laptop... so its having a connection problem cuz the laptop has a weird chip, I'd say, revert laptop to b mode, if that doesnt help, try WPA2, if that doesnt help give WEP a try but use 5 second key rotation?  chances are you can probably fix it tho with useing some more compatible settings, ie: stuff that isnt hardware exclusive, like broadcom has speedbooster, atheros has uh, whatever they have etc

i really hope u can get it working easily enough :?, if not and you deside to get a new router that can be pretty painless too  just get the right one


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## t_ski (Dec 24, 2007)

Snipe343 said:


> If your having trouble connecting to the internet on the wifes comp. change the ip of the router. Thats the default ip and is really only meant to be running one computer to avoid conflicts. I donno if it will help but it did when i did my networking. Also should let you do whatever you want with security as mine did.



Well, Snipe 343 wins the award for the correct answer.  I was fooling around with a new top (UPS w/ LAN card) and had to change the IP of the router to avoid a conflict with that.  Suddenly, the laptop can see the PC again and I was able to print from the lappy.

Kudos to you


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