# gigabytes terrible RMA and customer service



## mhughes25 (Apr 21, 2020)

I read my rma status today and on the bottom right it says that my GPU is physically damaged and the warranty has been voided? How exactly is my 850 dollar graphics card that I treated like it was as fragile as glass and cared for physically damaged? It has been sitting in a PC the entire time I owned it basically unused until recently when I was going to build a PC to sell and it wouldn't work! I was charged 35 dollars to ship it and I used excellent packaging with an anti-static bag and I covered the PCIE x 16 connector with a plastic cover. The card has a back plate and a shroud there is no way it was physically damaged by me. i have been reading tons of bad RMA posts online, and I was cautiously optimistic about even getting anything back that was even attempted to be repaired. i have used this brand for a long time and it has been my favorite i have a gigabyte aorus master motherboard and a gigabyte rtx 2080 super as well as a gigabyte rtx 2080 ti, and they work just fine. I would like for this card to work as well and to be fixed please because I paid a lot for it and could really use the money from selling it in a build right now since I lost my job from the coronavirus crap! But no apparently I lost my card as well! This is ridiculous! A literal billion dollar company can't honor it's promised warranty to a loyal customer who spent his hard-earned money on high-end hardware! That RMA fix would literally cost gigabyte pennies compared to the hundreds it is costing me, it is actually breaking me at this moment. 

Here are just a few posts i found online reading about your RMA 

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/gigabyte/comments/7i8pdr
 https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/is-gigabyte-lying-to-me.2208649/ 
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/gigabyte-rma-nightmare.238683/ 
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/gigabyte.com?page=3 


http://imgur.com/a/ftBqZ

https://forums.tomsguide.com/threads/is-this-how-gigabyte-usually-deals-with-their-warranty.402718/ 
https://www.bbb.org/us/ca/city-of-i...igabyte-technologies-1216-13136347/complaints 


			https://gigabyte.pissedconsumer.com/complaints/
		


That is an email that I sent to their RMA services and I talked with them on the phone and they said that since I changed the thermal pads on the graphics card it was my fault that it was broken. The card was broken before I did this and the excuse that they gave me doesn’t make since! He said since I changed the thermal pads incorrectly it burned the ram? That can’t happen by just replacing a pad on the card they are trying to look for an excuse not to fix it. I looked online and apparently; I am not the only person who has had this issue. The online community is riddled with this problem and they have an f on better business borough not only that but terrible customer service ratings. I tried to contact them and ask them for help and they just kept telling me no then I got a hold of a manager and the guy called me incompetent and said I didn’t know what I was doing, which really made me feel terrible. The fact is they 
don’t honor their warranty but instead try and find a reason why it is the customers fault rather than just fixing the issue in the first place.

from what i read online the gigabyte RMA service seems to be this... accept the rma to shut the customer up.... charge you (for me 35 dollars) to ship the card to them... open the package upon receipt and Frisbee the GPU into a bin... let it sit there a week before claiming they received it... slam the product onto a table... grab a magnifying glass and look for a reason why it isn't their fault it broke... if they can't find one they make it up... send the product back broken and blame the consumer....

i can also tell you that their customer service is terrible they are rude and dismissive and the higher you go the worse it gets up until they call you names and insult your intelligence. 
it is against the law for them to revoke a warranty because i changed the thermal pads on their cards, according to this post





						Product Warranties
					

Product Warranties



					donsnotes.com
				





the entire time i spent waiting for the RMA i was worried that this would happen because of all of the other posts on gigabytes RMA service i was hoping that they fixed it but they did not. i now believe that they definitely deserve their F rating from BBB.


----------



## newtekie1 (Apr 21, 2020)

Par for the course from Gigabyte.  I don't know why anyone would buy their products at this point.


----------



## mhughes25 (Apr 21, 2020)

yeah, i definitely agree.  i'm never purchasing from them again and i'll be sure to tell everyone the same thing.


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Apr 21, 2020)

Shit like this is why i will never RMA anything. Ill toss it and buy a new one. It's quicker.


----------



## mhughes25 (Apr 21, 2020)

that's what they want you to do. i can't afford to do that unfortunately that was all i had. i just want them to fix the issue or send a working replacement. i want the to also at the very least admit it wasn't my fault that i got a faulty product.


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Apr 21, 2020)

Good luck with that. Their word against yours. Also helpful to keep original packaging for this reason.


----------



## Assimilator (Apr 21, 2020)

Let me get this straight...

The card broke.

And *then* you repasted it.

Hmmm, I wonder how many times Gigabyte engineers have heard that particular story. Doesn't it seem just a *little *suspicious to you? Who would go to the trouble of repasting a broken GPU? Why wouldn't they just send it for RMA immediately?

Considering that all the card manufacturers are continuously flooded by cards that have been broken by ignorant idiots trying to repaste them or apply liquid metal or flash the BIOS, at this point there's no wonder why the manufacturers assume the customer is the problem.

And in this case, holy hell WTF did you do with those pads? It looks like you managed to *insulate* the memory chips, as opposed to transfer heat away from them... not to mention the amount of paste you've applied on the core is literally terrifying. Gigabyte may be lying, but your repaste is such a dog's dinner that if I was an engineer looking at it, I'd be inclined to refuse the RMA.

Basically, you shot yourself in the foot. I don't know who is really at fault here, but take this as a lesson: if it's broke, don't try to fix it yourself.


----------



## Bones (Apr 21, 2020)

mhughes25 said:


> I read my rma status today and on the bottom right it says that my GPU is physically damaged and the warranty has been voided? How exactly is my 850 dollar graphics card that I treated like it was as fragile as glass and cared for physically damaged? It has been sitting in a PC the entire time I owned it basically unused until recently when I was going to build a PC to sell and it wouldn't work! I was charged 35 dollars to ship it and I used excellent packaging with an anti-static bag and I covered the PCIE x 16 connector with a plastic cover. The card has a back plate and a shroud there is no way it was physically damaged by me. i have been reading tons of bad RMA posts online, and I was cautiously optimistic about even getting anything back that was even attempted to be repaired. i have used this brand for a long time and it has been my favorite i have a gigabyte aorus master motherboard and a gigabyte rtx 2080 super as well as a gigabyte rtx 2080 ti, and they work just fine. I would like for this card to work as well and to be fixed please because I paid a lot for it and could really use the money from selling it in a build right now since I lost my job from the coronavirus crap! But no apparently I lost my card as well! This is ridiculous! A literal billion dollar company can't honor it's promised warranty to a loyal customer who spent his hard-earned money on high-end hardware! That RMA fix would literally cost gigabyte pennies compared to the hundreds it is costing me, it is actually breaking me at this moment.
> 
> Here are just a few posts i found online reading about your RMA
> 
> ...




Could you explain why the date in the document starts on April 30th 2016 and ends on May 11th 2016?
And just now in 2020, it's crictical to get the card fixed?

And just who is saying "Here are just a few posts I found online reading about your RMA"?



I'm hoping I'm wrong here but something about all this just doesn't add up.

EDIT:
And I just noted the above E-mail pic was edited, probrably to remove the mentioned dates - Too slow dude, I got a copy of it, this stating strongly it's all total BS here.


----------



## Assimilator (Apr 21, 2020)

Bones said:


> Could you explain why the date in the document starts on April 30th 2016 and ends on May 11th 2016?
> And just who is saying "Here are just a few posts I found online reading about your RMA"?
> 
> I'm hoping I'm wrong here but something about all this just doesn't add up.



It's not OP's RMA email, it's from reddit /r/gigabyte/comments/7i8pdr/gigabyte_customer_service/dqx0imz/ (can't hyperlink because of stupid forum auto-embedder thing).


----------



## P4-630 (Apr 21, 2020)

So next time when you have problems with a graphics card, just don't take it apart and don't try to fix it!
Just RMA right away if it doesn't work as it should, or better yet just return it within the 30 day window (if possible in your country).


----------



## Bones (Apr 21, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> It's not OP's RMA email, it's from reddit /r/gigabyte/comments/7i8pdr/gigabyte_customer_service/dqx0imz/ (can't hyperlink because of stupid forum auto-embedder thing).


Thing is it's supposed to be about a card he wants fixed now, not back then but the dates just don't match when he says he's lost his job with this virus going around, yet the 2016 date regardless doesn't fit.
I'm calling BS on this.


----------



## Chomiq (Apr 21, 2020)

You've used Hubba Bubba instead of thermal pads or what?

@Bones OP is throwing some random post from reddit as "proof" of GB incompetence.


----------



## mhughes25 (Apr 21, 2020)

those are posts i found with people who had the same issues. also i dont know what they did with the thermal paste because i didn't do that nor did i get paste all over the thermal pads. i used arctic thermal pads that i spent 20 bucks on from micro center the exact same thing i use on all of my graphics cards. i used thermal grisley kryonout (SP) paste. i was getting the card ready to put in a build i am making to sell it, like i normally do and i had issues i attributed to maybe drivers but since the card had been in a box in a drawer for about a year i changed the thermal pads. there is no reason that messed it up. arctic thermal pads will not break the ram or the ram controller. i got a faulty card and gigabytes RMA team used the new thermal pads as an excuse and made them look dirty in the picture. i am not the only one who had this issue as the links above show. just google the subject and check the BBB ratings and complaints they have an F. they are known for blaming people for their issues. i am not a kid and i know how to handle a graphics card. this is definitely not my first GPU though it is the first one i have had that broke on me.

EDIT: about the thermal pads, they are the same width as the stock pads if you look at the photo of the pads over the mosfets it just doesn't look like it because of the camera angle. it's like they bought a professional photographer to make my thermal pad application look bad... they should spend their time and money fixing the issues with their products rather than finding reasons not to.


----------



## Sithaer (Apr 21, 2020)

P4-630 said:


> So next time when you have problems with a graphics card, just don't take it apart and don't try to fix it!
> Just RMA right away if it doesn't work as it should, or better yet just return it within the 30 day window (if possible in your country).



Pretty much this,at least where I live I'm not allowed to take apart the hardware with warranty on it else its void instantly or when they notice it but its better to not try anyway.
Heck even the keyboard I have was faulty and I was told that if I open it up _'simply take out the screws'_ the warranty is gone but since it wasn't that expensive I went ahead and did it anyway,found what was broken and repaired it but with anything remotely expensive hell no,straight send it back to the shop where I bought it from and let them deal with it.

I also had only Gigabyte cards since the HD 7770 and so far I had no issues with them,the only card I ever had to RMA was a MSI card and they gave me an 'upgrade' after a month so that was good._ 'the retailer shop dealt with it,I just brought back the dead card to them'_


----------



## Bones (Apr 21, 2020)

Every company has such stories behind them like that.

Doesn't matter if you know how to handle a card or not, fact is _you tampered with it before you attempted RMA._
The factory has no way of knowing if it did break as you say or if your tampering caused it.
In short you contaminated the evidence of "Why" it broke.


----------



## mhughes25 (Apr 21, 2020)

Bones said:


> Every company has such stories behind them like that.
> 
> Doesn't matter if you know how to handle a card or not, fact is _you tampered with it before you attempted RMA._
> The factory has no way of knowing if it did break as you say or if your tampering caused it.
> In short you contaminated the evidence of "Why" it broke.


i don't disagree to this statement. though in this case i know it wasn't me who broke the card and honestly if their product is so fragile and terribly made that changing thermal pads to a known and reputable company such as arctic coolings thermal pads than why have a warranty in the first place? especially if they are going to deny everyone. i do the exact same thing for EVGA and MSI cards and all of my other GPUS in all of my builds except usually i change all of the thermal pads this time i just did the ram cause it was pretty bad those stock pads are so terrible. 

but by making this post i was really just wanting to see if i could find someone who could help me dispute this rejection and help me get a good resolution to my problem i didn't want to open myself up for arguments and ridicule. (this isn't a direct response to the person who i am replying to and more of a blanket statement.)


----------



## Bones (Apr 21, 2020)

Thing is every company out there would probrably have denied it as well under these same circumstances, singling Gigabyte out for doing it isn't really fair because under the terms of warranty they had every right to refuse it. They didn't create the exact situation as it was/is, they went by the terms of warranty and said "No".

BTW If you think Gigabyte is bad, you can find horror stories about ASRock any day of the week.... Or in reality any of them period.

Regardless, next time you suspect a problem, RMA it instead of messing with it first.
If the card is out of warranty, then have at it.


----------



## mhughes25 (Apr 21, 2020)

i never once edited the original post... wow! now i see why i haven't posted anything on the internet in years and stay away from social media. if you want to look for a discrepancy in my posting that is fine... if you work for gigabyte and just want to shame me more... that is fine too i guess. i just want my issue resolved and please do me a favor and if you want to ridicule my post and call me a liar? read the post in its entirety.


----------



## bobbybluz (Apr 21, 2020)

As much as I'd like to sympathize with you on this it's your fault the RMA was denied. There was no legitimate reason to change those pads and if it had malfunctioned or died because of them (or anything else) you would have been able to do a successful RMA.

I only buy XFX GPU's now because I have a long relationship with their service department. I know what their warranties cover and what they let customers do on their own (XFX sends replacement fan assemblies customers, you can change them without voiding the warranty) and what they require the GPU be sent to them for.

When a product is returned for a RMA take pictures and make sure something with a date on it is included in the pictures. If the manufacturer claims the product was damaged that gives proof it really wasn't before it left your possession. I've had a few encounters with Asus in the past where they tried to say motherboards I RMA'd were physically damaged when they got them. After I submitted the dated pictures they changed their story and replaced them.


----------



## mhughes25 (Apr 21, 2020)

yeah, i didn't think to take pictures of the pcb, i took pictures of the back plate the serial number and the front of the card though before i sent it off because i read about that stuff other people dealt with. honestly i guess i just have to deal with it and hope something else comes along. i know i'm going to stick with buying evga cards though because i've never had an issue with them. i honestly hope that no one has to go through this like i did even the people attempting to shame me right now, cause it's pretty crappy to spend 800 dollars on something only to have it not work and then send it in for repair to have them deny it and call you incompetent.


----------



## Kursah (Apr 21, 2020)

Bones said:


> Regardless, next time you suspect a problem, RMA it instead of messing with it first.
> If the card is out of warranty, then have at it.



Exactly this, and I think the lesson here is learned.



mhughes25 said:


> yeah, i didn't think to take pictures of the pcb, i took pictures of the back plate the serial number and the front of the card though before i sent it off because i read about that stuff other people dealt with. honestly i guess i just have to deal with it and hope something else comes along. i know i'm going to stick with buying evga cards though because i've never had an issue with them. i honestly hope that no one has to go through this like i did even the people attempting to shame me right now, cause it's pretty crappy to spend 800 dollars on something only to have it not work and then send it in for repair to have them deny it and call you incompetent.



Sorry that you did go through this, we've all had some bad RMA stories from various companies and all have some flubs or mistakes made along the way that may have voided a warranty or RMA. It sucks when it costs you hundreds or thousands of dollars that's for sure. Some complaints against companies are more common than others. Again, as I said before, sounds like lesson learned on a variety of fronts. Hopefully you won't have to go through this kind of BS again. Choosing with your wallet is a big way to send that message too. 

I agree those that are shaming rather than helping can stop now. Feel free to report them if it persists.


----------



## bobbybluz (Apr 21, 2020)

mhughes25 said:


> yeah, i didn't think to take pictures of the pcb, i took pictures of the back plate the serial number and the front of the card though before i sent it off because i read about that stuff other people dealt with. honestly i guess i just have to deal with it and hope something else comes along. i know i'm going to stick with buying evga cards though because i've never had an issue with them. i honestly hope that no one has to go through this like i did even the people attempting to shame me right now, cause it's pretty crappy to spend 800 dollars on something only to have it not work and then send it in for repair to have them deny it and call you incompetent.



I haven't seen anybody attempting to shame you here, they've only pointed out what you did wrong and why the RMA was denied. Some of us have been in the computer business for decades (I'm officially retired now) and learned the hard way about warranties. You made a mistake (actually more than one) and need to let it be a learning experience for you. Everybody fux0rs up sooner or later, the way you deal with it determines if you make the same poor decision(s) again or not. 

Here's a bit of professional advice: You have to make them WANT to help you. I always call for a RMA whenever I can and actually talk with somebody. Stay on point and say as little as possible. If you don't get satisfaction ask to speak with a supervisor or manager. Don't complain or say bad things about their company because you'll get nothing from them if you do.


----------



## mhughes25 (Apr 21, 2020)

within ten minutes of my post asking for help i was called a liar, insulted on my thermals application (which do look bad in the picture but that wasn't how it was when i sent it and the pads aren't as thick as they look they are .5 mm arctic cooling thermal pads.) blamed for again for a faulty product... i understand peoples point of view when they say i made a mistake changing the pads in the first place, but i do that with all of my GPUS because they run better at cooler temperatures and aftermarket paste and pads are better than the stock pads. I've been building pcs and overclocking/ bench-marking since i was 14, i know what i am doing.

when i made this post i wasn't looking for sympathy or arguments, i was hoping that someone knew who i could talk to in order to get my issue resolved. like maybe someone who works for gigabyte and wanted to fix a customers issue. i guess i forgot this was the internet...


----------



## Arjai (Apr 21, 2020)

I hate to say it but, 1. using Reddit posts that are 4 years old, doesn't help your cause. 2. Asking for help is one thing, trashing a company, then trashing TPU's response and then summing it all up as "the Internet".

Well, it feels a little immature. It is sad that this has happened, that companies can deny fault so easily. But, they do. So, we all have to follow certain rules to get them to do an RMA.

I understand where you are coming from, also. You actually improved their product with better thermals. But, that voids the warranty, we all know this. So, always be sure that you are improving something that works. The problem you had, or describe, is that you did not test the card before taking it apart. 

I sincerely hope this can serve as a lesson for others, as well.

Best of luck to you.


----------



## Regeneration (Apr 21, 2020)

The photos you published look really bad. You gave them an excuse not to repair it.

When you reapply thermal paste, do it with extreme care. Clean with alcohol and cotton swabs first and don't over use.

Your story isn't clear and cannot be understood. Stick with the five W's (who, what, why, when, where). Other people stories are irrelevant.

If the Gigabyte graphics card broke during the warranty period and they refuse to repair it, threaten to take it to a small claims court.


----------



## John Naylor (Apr 22, 2020)

The facts is all support these days is terrible... with everyone saying... "This is the 2nd board bI have bought in my lige, the 1st one was OK, and this on broke,..so Im never buying this brand again ... If I did that there's no more vendors left.  And it's not hlp when folks break the product and ask the manufcaturer to fix it.  Asus i the worst ... for  a year I been e-mailing Asis about their $400 router.

a) each submission is responded to exactly the same way ... same number of words, the exact same words ... well all but one

b)  They come from Bob, Bill, John, Tom, Ted, Cindy.  Apparently they all share a hive mind.

c)  Their instructions involve erasing all of my custom settings,, the making a file os the default settings and sending them to support.  Then they will "be able to get me on the internet.

d)  Aparrently they don't understand that if I couldn't get on the internet, they wouldn't be receiving e-mails from me.   When I respond that it is not an internet problem, it is a software utility for the USB port problem, they just send back the same response.  Its as if I was asking whether support is available diring COVOD-19 lockdown and they respomds by saying if COVID-19 doesn't work try and olver version like COVID-18, COVID-17 or whatever.


----------



## joemama (Apr 22, 2020)

Disassembling the GPU usually voids the warranty, I thought everyone knew that
Claiming that it was already broken before you disassembled it and that you didn't damage it during disassembly is meaningless without evidence
Here in taiwan, I've seen quite a lot of these complaints with all three of our graphics card manufacturers: MSI, Gigabyte and ASUS
There's just too many people doing a variety of weird shit to the graphics card that these companies aren't very willing to accept RMA


----------



## mhughes25 (Apr 22, 2020)

i actually did that! 


Regeneration said:


> The photos you published look really bad. You gave them an excuse not to repair it.
> 
> When you reapply thermal paste, do it with extreme care. Clean with alcohol and cotton swabs first and don't over use.
> 
> ...



thank you for your response, honestly it's the best one i received all day. i actually did tell the manager that since denying my claim was illegal i'm going to have to hire a lawyer when i get my stimulus check and after a bit of arguing... mainly the fact that i changed the pads on 4 sticks of vram but all 8 couldn't communicate with the gpu?  he basically said next time your card brakes send it in before you change the pads and i told him i'm going to have to get a lawyer he said good luck and hung up. i did contact a lawyer today and am waiting on them to call me back but honestly i can't afford that.

luckily a friend of mine is going to help me out and exchange their card for mine an exact match so that's good and also very nice of them.


----------



## bobbybluz (Apr 22, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> The facts is all support these days is terrible... with everyone saying... "This is the 2nd board bI have bought in my lige, the 1st one was OK, and this on broke,..so Im never buying this brand again ... If I did that there's no more vendors left.  And it's not hlp when folks break the product and ask the manufcaturer to fix it.  Asus i the worst ... for  a year I been e-mailing Asis about their $400 router.
> 
> a) each submission is responded to exactly the same way ... same number of words, the exact same words ... well all but one
> 
> ...


 
During my last big war with Asus around 10 years ago I was eventually handed off to their secret corporate top-level problem resolution office. Only three people worked in it and over a period of two months all were replaced at least twice. I just tried calling the number to see if it still worked and it now goes to the service department office of their CEO. This one is in California, the main consumer one was in Illinois and an entrance portal to Hell. As great as Asus products are when they work their warranty service is equally horrible when they don't.


----------



## Regeneration (Apr 22, 2020)

Every manager has a manager that can be contacted.


----------



## bobbybluz (Apr 22, 2020)

Regeneration said:


> Every manager has a manager that can be contacted.



And that manager is always unavailable when you ask to speak to them.


----------



## Bones (Apr 22, 2020)

mhughes25 said:


> i never once edited the original post... wow! now i see why i haven't posted anything on the internet in years and stay away from social media. if you want to look for a discrepancy in my posting that is fine... if you work for gigabyte and just want to shame me more... that is fine too i guess. i just want my issue resolved and please do me a favor and if you want to ridicule my post and call me a liar? read the post in its entirety.


Thing is we're not there to see what's really going on and if something looks odd that's just how it is and we say so.
At least you did clarify things which is good and works to your advantage and it's a good thing turns out it wasn't like many we've seen that was beyond "Weird" and with what we did see it was indeed questionable.

I do apologize for how it went at first on my part but I do not apologize for just saying things didn't look right about it, I'd have to think you'd probrably had done the same yourself and frankly coudn't blame you over it.

The use of a 4 year old post related to current events was really fishy sounding along with references to how you aren't working due to the virus within the same post because there was no Cov-19 back in 2016, all that just didn't add up.

You are right about one thing, it's the web and it's no suprise at all to see such weirdness when it appears but in your case and to your credit it's all good. 

I hope your friend can help you and at least give some kind of resolution to this problem.


----------



## Regeneration (Apr 22, 2020)

mhughes25 said:


> thank you for your response, honestly it's the best one i received all day. i actually did tell the manager that since denying my claim was illegal i'm going to have to hire a lawyer when i get my stimulus check and after a bit of arguing... mainly the fact that i changed the pads on 4 sticks of vram but all 8 couldn't communicate with the gpu?  he basically said next time your card brakes send it in before you change the pads and i told him i'm going to have to get a lawyer he said good luck and hung up. i did contact a lawyer today and am waiting on them to call me back but honestly i can't afford that.



In some states, you can apply for a free legal representation, even tho a lawyer is not required in a small claims court.


----------



## mhughes25 (Apr 22, 2020)

the top part was an email i sent to gigabyte i copied and pasted it. those links were a few threads that i found online with people who had the same problem with their RMA that i had. i wouldn't post my personal records on a public forum like that, that would be bad. 

thanks though for your explanation and i understand. 

also, those thermal pads are arctic .5mm thickness pads from a 100x100 sheet i cut to fit over those four slots of vram. i don't know why there is thermal paste all over them or why it looks so terrible in the picture. it does bug me too because they succeeded in making me look bad and apparently i helped them!

also to clarify it is illegal in the USA to deny and RMA because you changed the thermals or put a new heat-sink on it. in the RMA instructions it even states that you need to remove all non gigabyte items before sending in, for RMA. their reason for denying mine is because i apparently "installed the thermal pads incorrectly.)  however i suppose it doesn't stop them from using it as an excuse to deny and RMA.

but anyways if we could close this post it would be cool, because I don't think i will get help from gigabyte and a friend of mine is going to help me out with my broken GPU issue anyways. thanks again for those of you who were helpful.



Regeneration said:


> In some states, you can apply for a free legal representation, even tho a lawyer is not required in a small claims court.


i'm not sure that i really know how to do that, i would like to know though! thanks for giving me this information.


----------

