# Upgrade to 5600X or 5800X3D - gaming purpose 1440P/144HZ



## Provin915 (Oct 3, 2022)

Hi everyone, I'm in a dilemma with upgrading my rig.

Currently running a 3700X and 5700XT. Definitely gonna upgrade my GPU to a 6800XT, but I also want to upgrade my CPU to squeeze more FPS.

I was thinking I could go for a 5600X (less cores but better for gaming). But since the release of AM5, I have read many people recommending a 5800X3D because it's just that good. However, is it worth based on price/performance?

I can get a 5600X for €210, whereas a 5800X3D goes for €440. I don't mind saving up for a 5800X3D but is it worth it? Purely gaming on a single monitor 1440P/144HZ.

Hope anyone can give some of their insight


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## Chomiq (Oct 3, 2022)

Provin915 said:


> Hi everyone, I'm in a dilemma with upgrading my rig.
> 
> Currently running a 3700X and 5700XT. Definitely gonna upgrade my GPU to a 6800XT, but I also want to upgrade my CPU to squeeze more FPS.
> 
> ...


I upgraded from 3700x to 5800x and I'm happy with it. Seeing how you'll still be more GPU bound at 1440p I would just opt for 5600X and call it a day. Maybe, just maybe I'd give 5800X3D a try if it was on a super sale during Black Friday (under €400).


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## dgianstefani (Oct 3, 2022)

A 5800x3D will basically ensure your frames never really dip below 144, as long as you're not gpu limited. 

The 5600x will get the same averages but the 1/0.1% lows will be much lower.

For context, I run 1440p/240hz and my 1% lows are 200fps or higher.

As far as you can "future proof" too, eight cores are much better than six.


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## Chomiq (Oct 3, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> A 5800x3D will basically ensure your frames never really dip below 144, as long as you're not gpu limited.


Unless he's running a game that's filled of shitty/unoptimized code.


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## dgianstefani (Oct 3, 2022)

Man even in tarkov my averages went from 80-100 with dips to 50 with my old 5950x.

With the X3D my averages went to 130+ and the dips to around 90/95.

That's almost a doubling in minimum fps. 


Chomiq said:


> Unless he's running a game that's filled of shitty/unoptimized code.


This is exactly where extreme single core and huge cache is best applied.


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## P4-630 (Oct 3, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> As far as you can "future proof" too, eight cores are much better than six.


^^


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## Vayra86 (Oct 3, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Unless he's running a game that's filled of shitty/unoptimized code.


Sure but the cache is still going to run that shitty code a lot faster.

I'm slowly getting really tempted to jump on this CPU, hard to see it topped in the actually hard gaming scenarios anytime soon, plus it doesn't run with that retarded 95C temp target like the upcoming successor...


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## tabascosauz (Oct 3, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Unless he's running a game that's filled of shitty/unoptimized code.



I was expecting those shitty coded games that benefit the most, but I was surprised how big of a difference it can be to 5900X. In more AAA titles that already run smooth, difference is small. But as an example in Insurgency Sandstorm there is one area of one map that always gave me a rather significant frame drop. 5800X3D has no frame drop, so the gain there is something like 105 to 155fps.

In a number of titles the 5800X3D seems to singlehandedly shift the game from entirely CPU-bound to entirely GPU-bound. GPU is drawing a lot more power in almost every single game (but still net reduction in system power because how inefficient 5900X is in games).

I think it's a great upgrade from a 3700X, but anything faster and it's a bit of a tough call. Especially if one doesn't already have a board ready.


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## DarkDreams (Oct 3, 2022)

I noticed you are using the stock AMD cooler. While I heard good things about it, I am not sure if it would be sufficient for the 5800X3D. So a new cooler might also something to factor into your decision.


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## Colddecked (Oct 3, 2022)

Provin915 said:


> Hi everyone, I'm in a dilemma with upgrading my rig.
> 
> Currently running a 3700X and 5700XT. Definitely gonna upgrade my GPU to a 6800XT, but I also want to upgrade my CPU to squeeze more FPS.
> 
> ...



With a high refresh rate monitor, I think its worth it to go 3d.  I upgraded from a 3800x.


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## freeagent (Oct 3, 2022)

I love how quiet my system is now. Games feel a lot smoother. I think I saw some hitching with my 5900x? Now it’s gone. It’s really good cpu for games. For productivity? I’m used to 5900X and it blows 3D away there. But that’s ok. I have a stack of iPPC fans on the shelf now


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## Provin915 (Oct 3, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> I upgraded from 3700x to 5800x and I'm happy with it. Seeing how you'll still be more GPU bound at 1440p I would just opt for 5600X and call it a day. Maybe, just maybe I'd give 5800X3D a try if it was on a super sale during Black Friday (under €400).


Hmmm I haven't researched the 5800X much. Normally I always get the 8 core CPU but this time I am contemplating whether it's worth it.

A 5800X3D is priced at €440, a 5800X at €300 and 5600X at €210. I have to research the performance differences between 5800X3D and 5800X. Thanks for your answer mate, if the 5800X3D dips below €400 I will definitely buy it I guess.



dgianstefani said:


> A 5800x3D will basically ensure your frames never really dip below 144, as long as you're not gpu limited.
> 
> The 5600x will get the same averages but the 1/0.1% lows will be much lower.
> 
> ...


I will have to check for more benchmarks between the 5800X3D vs 5600X. I'm not that worried about future proofing. Usually I build completely new rigs every 2-3 years, but these last couple of years have been horrible for PC components 



dgianstefani said:


> Man even in tarkov my averages went from 80-100 with dips to 50 with my old 5950x.
> 
> With the X3D my averages went to 130+ and the dips to around 90/95.
> 
> ...


Yea I'd like to maximise my FPS gains as much as I can.



Vayra86 said:


> Sure but the cache is still going to run that shitty code a lot faster.
> 
> I'm slowly getting really tempted to jump on this CPU, hard to see it topped in the actually hard gaming scenarios anytime soon, plus it doesn't run with that retarded 95C temp target like the upcoming successor...


I didn't even know this CPU existed until AM5 came out and everyone was saying 5800X3D is the king of gaming CPU. So I thought instead of getting a completely new rig (AM5 CPU/Mobo and DDR5 RAM) I'd just upgrade my CPU and GPU and be done.



DarkDreams said:


> I noticed you are using the stock AMD cooler. While I heard good things about it, I am not sure if it would be sufficient for the 5800X3D. So a new cooler might also something to factor into your decision.


Thanks man, didn't think about that yet. I can always get an aftermarket cooler if I decide to go for 5800X3D.

I mostly play Path of Exile / Shatterline / BF2042 / Phasmophobia / They Are Billions / 7 Days to Die. Occassionally, I play open world games with buddies. Definitely gonna play upcoming MW2.

For these type of games I'm not sure if the extra cores are gonna help. Or will they definitely help because of extra cache?


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## INSTG8R (Oct 3, 2022)

Well having just bought a 5800X3D to replace a 5600X I have seen some visible improvements despite actually gaming at 3440x1440 so in no way a CPU bound situation. IF I was choosing between your 2 options and you are mainly gaming I can highly recommend the 5800X3D
I have no intention of moving to AM5 until at least Zen 5 nor do I plan to change my gaming resolution. I will be upgrading my GPU soon to a 6800XT, but bottom line I expect this combo to last me more than a few years and long enough to wait until the AM5 platform matures


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## Count von Schwalbe (Oct 3, 2022)

See attached images.


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## gffermari (Oct 3, 2022)

It depends on what system you want to build.
A 5600X is great for normal gamings pcs while the 3D is made for high end ones.
If you stay with the 6800XT for years, buy the 5600X.
If you plan to move to 7800XT, 4080 and better...you know the answer.

I moved from 3700X to 5800X3D, only to avoid upgrading everything when a new beast gpu is out available.

AMD shoot their feet by releasing Zen 4+ gaming performance in a 5+ years old platform. And I thank them for that.
Only a 7800X3D can bring peace in the AM5 universe.....  


Spoiler


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## freeagent (Oct 3, 2022)

5600X is a good gaming cpu, I like it. Mine boosts pretty hard, does 2K1:1, and is super easy to cool. My 5800X3D may have a slightly better IMC than my 5900X.. testing that right now.


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## Provin915 (Oct 4, 2022)

INSTG8R said:


> Well having just bought a 5800X3D to replace a 5600X I have seen some visible improvements despite actually gaming at 3440x1440 so in no way a CPU bound situation. IF I was choosing between your 2 options and you are mainly gaming I can highly recommend the 5800X3D
> I have no intention of moving to AM5 until at least Zen 5 nor do I plan to change my gaming resolution. I will be upgrading my GPU soon to a 6800XT, but bottom line I expect this combo to last me more than a few years and long enough to wait until the AM5 platform matures


Yea with such crazy prices I think I will stick with my AM4 until it's reasonable again to upgrade.


Count von Schwalbe said:


> See attached images.


5800X3D seems like the way to go for ''high end'' at the moment.



gffermari said:


> It depends on what system you want to build.
> A 5600X is great for normal gamings pcs while the 3D is made for high end ones.
> If you stay with the 6800XT for years, buy the 5600X.
> If you plan to move to 7800XT, 4080 and better...you know the answer.
> ...


Hmmm I see yea I will upgrade to a 6800XT for sure and eventually again in the future. Will probably get a 5800X3D based on everyone's insight. Thanks all!

Anyone have recommendations for a good air cooler? Have to fit in a NZXT H510!


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## R0H1T (Oct 4, 2022)

5700x or 5800x3d depending on your budget, if you want to spend much less than 5600(non X) is also an option.


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## Lionheart (Oct 4, 2022)

I'd get the 5800X3D hands down, 5600X still a great gaming CPU but the extra threads & cache is just too handy.


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## freeagent (Oct 4, 2022)

It is a smooooth cpu


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## INSTG8R (Oct 4, 2022)

freeagent said:


> It is a smooooth cpu


Isn’t tho? My board has a “special sauce“ setting just for it that acts like PBO and Curve Optimizer. No extra boost but holds max boost for MT loads and has adjusted the voltages so it runs cooler too.


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## freeagent (Oct 4, 2022)

INSTG8R said:


> Isn’t tho? My board has a “special sauce“ setting just for it that acts like PBO and Curve Optimizer. No extra boost but holds max boost for MT loads and has adjusted the voltages so it runs cooler too.


I’ve got none of that 

I don’t think PB Tuner works on my setup, it wasn’t doing anything when set to -30. Not a big deal though. The system idles at 60w and loads at 450 so far.. not bad.


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## INSTG8R (Oct 4, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I’ve got none of that
> 
> I don’t think PB Tuner works on my setup, it wasn’t doing anything when set to -30. Not a big deal though. The system idles at 60w and loads at 450 so far.. not bad.


I won’t touch an of his software…


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## Tropick (Oct 4, 2022)

Provin915 said:


> Hmmm I see yea I will upgrade to a 6800XT for sure and eventually again in the future. Will probably get a 5800X3D based on everyone's insight. Thanks all!
> 
> Anyone have recommendations for a good air cooler? Have to fit in a NZXT H510!


I have a 5600X/6800XT and can confirm the combo is fantastic, 5800X3D/6800XT will be even better with higher and more consistent 1 and 0.1% lows. 1440p @ mixed high/ultra settings usually nets me 100+ FPS in nearly anything. Sometimes I can even enable some light RT if I drop the settings to high.

As for a cooler recommendation, here's Noctua's official compatibility list for the H510. I know it's just one brand but it should give you a good picture of what kind of coolers will be able to fit in the case.

Happy upgrading!


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## droopyRO (Oct 4, 2022)

3700X is still a powerfull CPU. I would upgrade the GPU first and see if you have a limitation in the games you play. Then save money for or buy a 5800X3D if you already have the cash.


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## QuietBob (Oct 4, 2022)

Provin915 said:


> Anyone have recommendations for a good air cooler? Have to fit in a NZXT H510!


You'd want a high-end cooler for the 5800X3D. Your case has maximum clearance of 165mm and two of the most capable HSFs -- Deepcool Assassin III and Noctua NH-D15 -- are exactly that. I wouldn't bet on them though. The Noctua NH-U12A is the best compact cooler and should easily clear your case at 158mm. Still, it's the most expensive of the bunch. The bequiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 is a good alternative and should just fit at 163mm.

In any case, remember to check your RAM for height compatibility.


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## vvtunes (Oct 4, 2022)

A) Keep your current rig until new 7xxx cpus (and gpus?) come out.  You may switch to a more robust am5 compatible cooler now and even play a little bit with overclocking;
B) Maximise your current rig with the most powerful am4 cpu available - 5800x3d plus a robust cooler - in order to try to mitigate any existing "bottlenecks" due to the older 3700x;
C) I think 3700x vs 5600x will only be a short term solution and not a very significant upgrade.


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## tussinman (Oct 4, 2022)

Provin915 said:


> I can get a 5600X for €210, whereas a 5800X3D goes for €440. I don't mind saving up for a 5800X3D but is it worth it? Purely gaming on a single monitor 1440P/144HZ.


5800X3D is a monster CPU but €440 is a lot of money.

You could even meet in the middle and get something like the 5700X for €270 which has very good thermals (meaning you won't have to blow a bunch of money on cooling) and would give you 2 extra cores compared to the 5600X (€270 is a good price)


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## freeagent (Oct 4, 2022)

Thermalright FC140 is an awesome cooler. X3D does not run hot for me, like at all.


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## Colddecked (Oct 4, 2022)

Provin915 said:


> 5800X3D seems like the way to go for ''high end'' at the moment.
> 
> Anyone have recommendations for a good air cooler? Have to fit in a NZXT H510!



Thats the nice thing about the 3d its "high end" without the high platform cost.

Peerless Assassin 120, Frost Sprit 140, AK620 all should fit.  I've got the frost sprit on mine right now works great with it.


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## INSTG8R (Oct 4, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Thermalright FC140 is an awesome cooler. X3D does not run hot for me, like at all.


Stop making me question my mount!! Mine runs easy 5C more on average than my 5600X. Now I suppose more cores means more heat but then there is entire thread on keeping the 5800X cool so I suppose I should expect it to run slightly warmer than a 6 core...I mean I'm being pedantic really I'm under a proper EK Block so even what I consider "high" is most certainly well within safe limits. I just want my 30c idle back not 37C at best....


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## freeagent (Oct 4, 2022)

INSTG8R said:


> Stop making me question my mount!! Mine runs easy 5C more on average than my 5600X. Now I suppose more cores means more heat but then there is entire thread on keeping the 5800X cool so I suppose I should expect it to run slightly warmer than a 6 core...I mean I'm being pedantic really I'm under a proper EK Block so even what I consider "high" is most certainly well within safe limits. I just want my 30c idle back not 37C at best....


I guess it wouldn’t help if I mentioned I was only using one fan?


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## AleXXX666 (Oct 4, 2022)

DarkDreams said:


> I noticed you are using the stock AMD cooler. While I heard good things about it, I am not sure if it would be sufficient for the 5800X3D. So a new cooler might also something to factor into your decision.


well, I won't run 5600X under IT'S stock heatsink too lol
"old school" "copper-core" - maybe, but not this small alu BS meant for Athlon.



Provin915 said:


> Hi everyone, I'm in a dilemma with upgrading my rig.
> 
> Currently running a 3700X and 5700XT. Definitely gonna upgrade my GPU to a 6800XT, but I also want to upgrade my CPU to squeeze more FPS.
> 
> ...


EUR 440 is definitely i9/R9 price tag. My verdict: overprice! It maybe fantastic and blah blah blah, but it shouldn't cost same as more threaded brother.


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## gffermari (Oct 4, 2022)

It is overpriced due to the fact that it's a Zen 4 level performer in the AM4. You have to pay for that or move to AM5/1700.

The idle temps are great while the peaks are ok and the all core load ones pretty bad. No matter what cooling, the temps are high because of the design of the chip. Only the undervolting makes the temps somewhat reasonable.


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## freeagent (Oct 4, 2022)

Define high?

I saw under 80c running occt for an hour.


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## Colddecked (Oct 4, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Define high?
> 
> I saw under 80c running occt for an hour.



Yeah but your ambient temp is like -20.  At least that's what I think it is according to my preconceived notions about Canada.

Kidding aside, I just did a 10 min CB23 run and maxed out at 84 with about 27 ambient temp.  -20 offset on all cores, Frost Sprit 140.. i've been working on validating in Core Cycler and its looking good for 24 hrs...


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## freeagent (Oct 4, 2022)

Colddecked said:


> Yeah but your ambient temp is like -20.  At least that's what I think it is according to my preconceived notions about Canada.


Lol it was 22 in my space


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## gffermari (Oct 4, 2022)

....-25 on all cores, idle at 30-33 and while I game at 52-62 degrees (depends on the game), the temp climbs up to 80-82 on R23.
The Assassins Creed Odyssey managed to surpass the R23 temps during loading/darn DRM checking, with peak at 84.

...yes custom water cooling(cpu+gpu) with 3x240 rads (practically two active).


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## Colddecked (Oct 4, 2022)

gffermari said:


> ....-25 on all cores, idle at 30-33 and while I game at 52-62 degrees (depends on the game), the temp climbs up to 80-82 on R23.
> The Assassins Creed Odyssey managed to surpass the R23 temps during loading/darn DRM checking, with peak at 84.
> 
> ...yes custom water cooling(cpu+gpu) with 3x240 rads (practically two active).



I've got a 3900 on custom water and was thinking about moving the 3d over to that setup, but if those are the temps you're getting I think I'll be keeping it on air.


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## gffermari (Oct 4, 2022)

The water temp remains stable during R23 bench at 26 degrees. It's pretty obvious that the heat is not transfered to the loop.
(During gaming, the water temp is 36-38.)

It's common to anyone with X3Ds and big AIOs or custom WC.


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## rbgc (Oct 4, 2022)

I used i9-9900K@5GHz for games (1080p and 1440p) and upgraded to 5800X3D. And new perf in games was shock. My best battlestation CPU upgrade ever. My next CPU will be "Zen5" 3D V-Cache 8 cores CPU.


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## QuietBob (Oct 4, 2022)

Here's mine idling in a 22c room, with CO -30 on all cores. CPU fan running at 400 rpm:


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## freeagent (Oct 4, 2022)

After dinner I will mount my 2x other CPU fans that I would normally use...  it might even be a bit quieter


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## Provin915 (Oct 4, 2022)

Tropick said:


> I have a 5600X/6800XT and can confirm the combo is fantastic, 5800X3D/6800XT will be even better with higher and more consistent 1 and 0.1% lows. 1440p @ mixed high/ultra settings usually nets me 100+ FPS in nearly anything. Sometimes I can even enable some light RT if I drop the settings to high.
> 
> As for a cooler recommendation, here's Noctua's official compatibility list for the H510. I know it's just one brand but it should give you a good picture of what kind of coolers will be able to fit in the case.
> 
> Happy upgrading!


Thank you very much. It's gonna be a tight fit I think but I will take my time to check the compatible coolers!



droopyRO said:


> 3700X is still a powerfull CPU. I would upgrade the GPU first and see if you have a limitation in the games you play. Then save money for or buy a 5800X3D if you already have the cash.


You're completely right, the GPU upgrade is gonna come first.



QuietBob said:


> You'd want a high-end cooler for the 5800X3D. Your case has maximum clearance of 165mm and two of the most capable HSFs -- Deepcool Assassin III and Noctua NH-D15 -- are exactly that. I wouldn't bet on them though. The Noctua NH-U12A is the best compact cooler and should easily clear your case at 158mm. Still, it's the most expensive of the bunch. The bequiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 is a good alternative and should just fit at 163mm.
> 
> In any case, remember to check your RAM for height compatibility.


Cool thank you for your advice. Will check for RAM height compatibility.



vvtunes said:


> A) Keep your current rig until new 7xxx cpus (and gpus?) come out.  You may switch to a more robust am5 compatible cooler now and even play a little bit with overclocking;
> B) Maximise your current rig with the most powerful am4 cpu available - 5800x3d plus a robust cooler - in order to try to mitigate any existing "bottlenecks" due to the older 3700x;
> C) I think 3700x vs 5600x will only be a short term solution and not a very significant upgrade.


Exactly as your said on point C. I don't think I can wait until newer gen of CPUs and GPUs will come out xD.



tussinman said:


> 5800X3D is a monster CPU but €440 is a lot of money.
> 
> You could even meet in the middle and get something like the 5700X for €270 which has very good thermals (meaning you won't have to blow a bunch of money on cooling) and would give you 2 extra cores compared to the 5600X (€270 is a good price)



Hmmm I haven't checked the 5700X. All I know is that the 5700X wasn't worth it when it got released. Not sure about it right now.

In any case, I'd like to thank everyone for their effort and posts!


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## RJARRRPCGP (Oct 5, 2022)

There have been tests of Windows 11 and Windows 11 often has better lows in FPS rates than 10.


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## oxrufiioxo (Oct 5, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I guess it wouldn’t help if I mentioned I was only using one fan?



Unless both of you have identical ambient, with identical motherboards, and identical cases/fans. Comparing temps is irrelevant.


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## tussinman (Oct 5, 2022)

Provin915 said:


> All I know is that the 5700X wasn't worth it when it got released.


I think your confusing the 5700X with another processor. The 5700X was critically acclaimed when it was released (it released at the same MSRP as the original 5600X but had 2 more cores, had great thermals, helped bring down the price of the 5800X since it was almost identical but 100 dollars cheaper).


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## Taraquin (Oct 6, 2022)

If you buy 5700X and care to overclock ram, run pbo/co etc you could close much of the gap between that and 5800X3D (15-20% vs 25%) since ram tuning matters less for 5800X3D and you can use pbo.


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## Mats (Oct 8, 2022)

Are there benchmarks out there showing how the 5800X3D scales with different graphics cards? 

I've seen 5800X3D being recommended no matter which GPU it will be paired with, which doesn't make sense to me, but I could be wrong.


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## oxrufiioxo (Oct 8, 2022)

Mats said:


> Are there benchmarks out there showing how the 5800X3D scales with different graphics cards?
> 
> I've seen 5800X3D being recommended no matter which GPU it will be paired with, which doesn't make sense to me, but I could be wrong.



The logic is that the min fps will be much higher (meaning even on mid range gpus the performance will be smoother) and also there isn't likely going to be a better gaming cpu on Am4 which means it elimnates fomo only the OP can decide what that's worth.

Also and somthing I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this a 5800X3D will outperform Any ryzen 5000 cpu with a budget 3200 ram kit vs a really high end dual rank bdie kit which gives the non 3D cpu much better performance at the 3600/3800 CL14 range especially the all important min fps at least with a relatively high end gpu.

I'd personally ignore any non 3D AM4 cpu as a potential upgrade at this point but I'm not the OP. There is enough information out there from reputable reviewers to make an inform decision. on this or any forum he's going to get one of two answers save money get the 5700X or don't waste your money on anything less than a 5800X3D neither view is wrong but what most aligns with how the op feels only he can answer.


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## Mats (Oct 8, 2022)

oxrufiioxo said:


> The logic is that the min fps will be much higher (meaning even on mid range gpus the performance will be smoother) and also there isn't likely going to be a better gaming cpu on Am4 which means it elimnates fomo only the OP can decide what that's worth.


I'd think so as well, but I haven't seen any review looking into this.


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## oxrufiioxo (Oct 8, 2022)

Mats said:


> I'd think so as well, but I haven't seen any review looking into this.



I mean you sorta have to take 1080p data and see what min fps are on a 5600X vs a 5800X3D

Something like this




You'd be turning down settings at 1440p with a 6800XT that the OP plans on getting but the 5800X3D can maintain over 144fps in these 12 games at all times the 5600X cannot.

Now if the OP can get a 5600X/5600 and the money saved can go into a much better gpu then I would probably still do that but if his goal is the not dip below 144hz in the majority of games with slightly reduced settings I would go with the 5800X3D.

These things are never and easy decision but sometimes its nice knowing you just have the best cpu for gaming period on AM4 again how much that is worth only the OP can answer.


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## dgianstefani (Oct 8, 2022)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I mean you sorta have to take 1080p data and see what min fps are on a 5600X vs a 5800X3D
> 
> Something like this
> 
> ...


I find it hard to believe that the 7600x has better 1% lows than a chip with 100MB of L3.

Just my 2c.

12900k too, the averages are great it's true, but there's something wrong with the data, or the 5800X3D isn't tuned properly/with good RAM/cooling, the 1% lows are where the X3D shines, not in averages. In TPU testing and in my own experience, the X3D and 12900k are neck and neck.









						AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review - The Magic of 3D V-Cache
					

The AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D is the company's new flagship gaming processor. It introduces 3D V-Cache, a dedicated piece of silicon with additional L3 capacity. In our review, we're testing how much the larger cache can help intensive gaming workloads and applications and compare it to the Intel Core...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## oxrufiioxo (Oct 8, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> I find it hard to believe that the 7600x has better 1% lows than a chip with 100MB of L3.
> 
> Just my 2c.



Probably going to depend on game selection but the 7700X/7600X seem generally better in newer games.

Some games seem to scale poorly while others the 5800X3D is beating the 12900k soundly. The 7000 series cpu at least the 7600X/7700X seem to be more consistent at least with DDR5 6000 CL30 memory.

Techspot seems to still recommend the 5800X3D over Ryzen 7000 at this point regardless.


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## dgianstefani (Oct 8, 2022)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Probably going to depend on game selection but the 7700X seems generally better with the 7600X
> 
> Some games seem to scale poorly while others the 5800X3D is beating the 12900k soundly. The 7000 series cpu at least the 7600X/7700X seem to be more consistent at least with DDR5 6000 CL30 memory.


To run DDR5 6000 CL30 memory you need a $600 motherboard. The kit itself will be $300 plus, and there's really no guarantee your system will be stable at those settings or even boot, AGESA is a mess. Voltages will be much higher on VDIMM to push that, and for that $900 you could get one/two tiers up GPU, a 5800X3D, and a good B550/X570 motherboard with decent B die RAM, for the same budget as a 76/7700x 6000/30 platform..

Lets see the 7600x review with cheapo normal DDR5, or anything that isn't a halo product, and I think I can guess the results.


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## oxrufiioxo (Oct 8, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> To run DDR5 6000 CL30 memory you need a $600 motherboard. The kit itself will be $300 plus, and there's really no guarantee your system will be stable at those settings or even boot, AGESA is a mess. Voltages will be much higher on VDIMM to push that, and for that $900 you could get one/two tiers up GPU, a 5800X3D, and a good B550/X570 motherboard with decent B die RAM, for the same budget as a 76/7700x 6000/30 platform..



I agree ryzen 7000 is a bad value. Anyone sticking with ddr4 that has a high end gpu should go with a 5800X3D.

For gaming specifically I think it's better than going with Alderlake or Raptorlake (even assuming it's 10% faster with ddr5 6000+) as well those cpus don't seem to perform well against it with DDR4 either although I haven't been paying attention to how they scale with a high end Bdie kit.

After seeing decent AM5 motherboard prices I've been tempted to swap my 5950X for a 5800X3D as well.


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## jormungand (Oct 8, 2022)

rx 6800xt is *-+=* a rtx 3080 , and i have a rtx 3080 12gb with a 5600x, 3440x1440 144/165oc hz 
bottleneck in those bad optimized games like BFV/BF2042 - AC Odyssey
CP2077 is cpu intensive in many areas
def go 5800x3d, im waiting on amazon sales to grab one.
good luck


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## Super Firm Tofu (Oct 8, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> To run DDR5 6000 CL30 memory you need a $600 motherboard. The kit itself will be $300 plus, and there's really no guarantee your system will be stable at those settings or even boot, AGESA is a mess. Voltages will be much higher on VDIMM to push that, and for that $900 you could get one/two tiers up GPU, a 5800X3D, and a good B550/X570 motherboard with decent B die RAM, for the same budget as a 76/7700x 6000/30 platform..
> 
> Lets see the 7600x review with cheapo normal DDR5, or anything that isn't a halo product, and I think I can guess the results.



Maybe I was lucky, but I bought the lowest price X670 ($270 with a combo discount) and a set of G.Skill EXPO 6000 CL30 ($255) and it's been 100% stable.  Other than the long post I'm not sure what is 'a mess' with the release AGESA.  Maybe don't spread FUD?

As for the money comparison to the 5800x3d set up, I'm not sure where you're saving money vs a 7700x setup. $420 for the CPU, $230 for am entry x570s board, and $260 for 32GB of 3600 CL14.  Plus, you can upgrade later to a 7800x3d.

If you have an AM4 board now, the 5800x3d is a no-brainer - see the other system in my specs.  If you don't, might as well go AM5.


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## dgianstefani (Oct 8, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> Maybe I was lucky, but I bought the lowest price X670 ($270 with a combo discount) and a set of G.Skill EXPO 6000 CL30 ($255) and it's been 100% stable.  Other than the long post I'm not sure what is 'a mess' with the release AGESA.  Maybe don't spread FUD?
> 
> As for the money comparison to the 5800x3d set up, I'm not sure where you're saving money vs a 7700x setup. $420 for the CPU, $230 for am entry x570s board, and $260 for 32GB of 3600 CL14.  Plus, you can upgrade later to a 7800x3d.
> 
> If you have an AM4 board now, the 5800x3d is a no-brainer - see the other system in my specs.  If you don't, might as well go AM5.


Not what the reviewers experienced or what hundreds of reddit threads, overclockers and enthusiast forums are reporting. It's not FUD, it's history repeating itself. AM4 AGESAs took around 12 to 18 months after CPU generations release to get to 100% stability, with all the features advertised by AMD, with some updates adding new things but breaking others. Even now there are issues. If you want to take advantage of DDR5 currently, you have to choose between expensive, lower capacity and "tight" timing kits (that may not work), or cheap, low capacity and loose timings, or expensive high capacity and loose timing kits. Whereas I can buy a 32GB kit of Hynix 3200/16 ram that will happily do 3800/18 all day for less than $100.

Suggesting that a 5800X3D needs either a $200+ motherboard or $200+ ram is also a stretch. You can get the same performance with a $150 B550 board and a $150 kit of reasonable ram. The whole point of a huge cache is that super fast low latency B die is no longer needed for memory starved Ryzen to be fast in games, due to the latency penalties Ryzen has being pretty much removed. 55ns B die instead of 65ns hynix ram doesn't really matter when you have a large cache running at 10ns.


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## Super Firm Tofu (Oct 8, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> Not what the reviewers experienced or what hundreds of reddit threads, overclockers and enthusiast forums are reporting. It's not FUD, it's history repeating itself. AM4 AGESAs took around 12 to 18 months after CPU generations release to get to 100% stability, with all the features advertised by AMD, with some updates adding new things but breaking others. Even now there are issues. If you want to take advantage of DDR5 currently, you have to choose between expensive, lower capacity and "tight" timing kits (that may not work), or cheap, low capacity and loose timings, or expensive high capacity and loose timing kits. Whereas I can buy a 32GB kit of Hynix 3200/16 ram that will happily do 3800/18 all day for less than $100.
> 
> Suggesting that a 5800X3D needs either a $200+ motherboard or $200+ ram is also a stretch. You can get the same performance with a $150 B550 board and a $150 kit of reasonable ram. The whole point of a huge cache is that super fast low latency B die is no longer needed for memory starved Ryzen to be fast in games, due to the latency penalties Ryzen has being pretty much removed. 55ns B die instead of 65ns hynix ram doesn't really matter when you have a large cache running at 10ns.



Got it.  I'm the only person on the planet who AM5 works for.

Internet forums are great.  People who've never touched a product repeating what they've read somewhere (and taken as fact) telling the person who has the product in their hands they don't know what they're talking about.


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## dgianstefani (Oct 8, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> Got it.  I'm the only person on the planet who AM5 works for.
> 
> Internet forums are great.  People who've never touched a product repeating what they've read somewhere (and taken as fact) telling the person who has the product in their hands they don't know what they're talking about.


Your sample of one sure is representative.


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## Super Firm Tofu (Oct 8, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> Your sample of one sure is representative.



It's more representative than you repeating what you've read.


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## dgianstefani (Oct 8, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> It's more representative than you repeating what you've read.


Is it what I've read though?


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## tabascosauz (Oct 8, 2022)

Let's not argue about this, guys. I've not seen anything conclusive specifically about AM5 having solid or sus AGESA (only some passing unsubstantiated remarks about DDR5 issues from some OCers). Raphael is not part of what the OP's asking anyway.


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## Mussels (Nov 1, 2022)

You can look at TPU's new test of the 5800x vs 5800x3D  with a 4090
RTX 4090 & 53 Games: Ryzen 7 5800X vs Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review | TechPowerUp

The x3D does really, really well for itself, 5600x and 5800x are extremely close in gaming performance since the clock speeds differ so little


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## Hyderz (Nov 1, 2022)

5800X3D for sure and that will last you a good 3-4 years before needing to upgrade!


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