# NVIDIA GeForce 8800GS 192-bit 384MB and 768MB First Look



## malware (Dec 29, 2007)

NVIDIA is going to release yet another revision to its GeForce 8 family, the GeForce 8800GS 192-bit 384MB and 768MB. A quick look at the chart below will tell you the differences between the 192-bit 8800GS and other 8 series. The price tag of 8800GS 384MB will be 1199CNY or about 164USD, while the 768MB version will cost 1499CNY (~204USD). Redirect here for some more pics and results.



 

 



*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## a111087 (Dec 29, 2007)

will it be available in Feb?


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## btarunr (Dec 29, 2007)

OMG this is insane...another variant of the 8800, it losing sense flooding the lineup this way. Maybe this is to counter the sudden rise in the sales of the HD2900 Pro


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## sam0t (Dec 29, 2007)

It just seems to me Nvidia is bit confused of the current situation where ATI does not even try to compete in the high end currently. Nvidia have great products for sure but just don´t seem to know what to do with them. The sheer amount of different products out there with Nvidia name slapped on them is proof enough in my opinion.


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## xfire (Dec 29, 2007)

ATI


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## X-TeNDeR (Dec 29, 2007)

nvidia is confused.? what about the poor gamers, getting lost in all this 192/256/112/96/90/65 mess? i myself have difficulty following all these variants


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## Weer (Dec 29, 2007)

An 8800 GS that will be more powerful than the 8800 GT?
This should have been 96 SPs.


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## largon (Dec 29, 2007)

*Weer*,
GS has 192bit bus, GT wins at 256bit.


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## btarunr (Dec 29, 2007)

Confuse and sell....so that the consumer concentrates less on the specs, more on the name

Hooray I got a GeForce *8800* !!!

Which 8800?

I dunno.

...new tactic from NVidia.


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## ShadowFold (Dec 29, 2007)

192bit??? WTF? I thought it went like 64-128-256-512-1024 etc. I know the old G80's were like 768 or w/e but 192? Thats pretty lame =/


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## btarunr (Dec 29, 2007)

The G80's were 320bit and 384bit (GTS, GTX)


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## OnBoard (Dec 29, 2007)

Now the other news is just silly about "NVIDIA Asks Card Makers to Reduce Manufacturing Costs of 8800 GT Cards". Why should the 8800GT go down in price as that 8800GS 768MB is clearly targeted to HD 3870 and 8800GS 384MB to the HD 3850.


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## qwerty_lesh (Dec 29, 2007)

arent the gt's 45nm? that chart states that they are 65, is it being generalised or something, or am i just lost in all the different modelseZeses o.0


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## rhythmeister (Dec 29, 2007)

Looks like a bargain card, get em while they're HOT


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## OnBoard (Dec 29, 2007)

qwerty_lesh said:


> arent the gt's 45nm? that chart states that they are 65, is it being generalised or something, or am i just lost in all the different modelseZeses o.0



Nope 65nm  They went down from 90nm G80.


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## qwerty_lesh (Dec 29, 2007)

ahh so i was just mistaken, cheers OnBoard


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## ShadowFold (Dec 29, 2007)

OnBoard said:


> Now the other news is just silly about "NVIDIA Asks Card Makers to Reduce Manufacturing Costs of 8800 GT Cards". Why should the 8800GT go down in price as that 8800GS 768MB is clearly targeted to HD 3870 and 8800GS 384MB to the HD 3850.



I doubt it can compete with the 256-bit awsomenessosity of the HD 3850 



rhythmeister said:


> Looks like a bargain card, get em while they're HOT


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## largon (Dec 29, 2007)

ShadowFold said:


> 192bit??? WTF? I thought it went like 64-128-256-512-1024 etc.


They go in steps of 32: 
32bit (1)-*64bit (2)*-96bit (3)-*128bit (4)*-160bit (5)-*192bit (6)*-224bit (7)-*256bit (8)*-288bit (9)-*320bit (10)*-352bit (11)-*384bit (12)*-416bit (13)-448bit (14)-480bit (15)-*512bit (16)*-etc.

All these bus widths are possible to make but only those bolded have been done, the "(number)" in the list after each bus width means the minimum number of GDDR3/4/5 chips that are needed. 
Bus width = amount of chips working in parallel.


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## ShadowFold (Dec 29, 2007)

That... makes... sense? I dont understand lol


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## largon (Dec 29, 2007)

*ShadowFold*,
GDDR3/4 chips used therse days are 32bits "wide" ie. 32bits can be read/written at the same time. If you put 2 such chips on a video card you get 64bit bus - that means the GPU can read/write 64bits in/from it's memory pool in a single clock cycle. Put 10 chips and you'll get a 320bit bus (10×32bit) just like on the G80 based 8800GTS 320MB/640MB. 8800GTX/Ultra has 12 chips yielding a 384bit bus (12×32bit). 8800GS has 192bit bus thus it has exactly _six_ GDDR3 chips on board (6×32bit).


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## Rizzy2DarQ (Dec 29, 2007)

They can keep bringing on the cheap cards I say... 
Talk about confusing though.


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## OnBoard (Dec 29, 2007)

ShadowFold said:


> I doubt it can compete with the 256-bit awsomenessosity of the HD 3850



Well W1zzard got 8876 with E6550 & HD 3870 in 3DMark06 and that screen shows 9826 3DMarks with E6750. That lower-clocked-half-memory-8800GS one should not follow too far behind as it's just like HD 3850 is to HD 3870.


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## Judas (Dec 29, 2007)

btarunr said:


> Confuse and sell....so that the consumer concentrates less on the specs, more on the name
> 
> Hooray I got a GeForce *8800* !!!
> 
> ...



hehe....


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## Weer (Dec 29, 2007)

largon said:


> *Weer*,
> GS has 192bit bus, GT wins at 256bit.



No, the GT does not "win".

The 64 extra bit on the memory bus aren't going to make much difference in performance.
Where as the extra 100Mhz memory clock on the GS and the extra 50Mhz core clock will.

Performance should be on-par if not superior.

I still say it's a type-o, and I say that you are condesending. If you really thought I'd be stupid enough not to notice the difference in memory bus, you'd have to be pretty pathetic to call me out on it.

Chris


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## jocksteeluk (Dec 29, 2007)

I think this product is directed at oem vendors wanting a cheap 8800 to beef up the specs of their retail systems.


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## Assimilator (Dec 29, 2007)

Weer, don't forget that the 8800 GS has 4 less ROPs than the GT as well.

That said, given the higher clocks of the 768MB GS model, I'd agree that the number of SPs is probably a typo - especially given that the core clock is 50MHz higher than on the 8800 GT, and nVidia cards have traditionally seen greater performance from higher core speeds as opposed to higher memory clocks.

Still, it'll be interesting to see exactly what effect - if any - the 192-bit bus has on performance. Given that 128-bit cards have generally been poor performers and 256-bit cards the opposite, it might be the case that a 192-bit bus is just a little too restrictive for the G92 core. Time will tell...


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## trog100 (Dec 29, 2007)

jocksteeluk said:


> I think this product is directed at oem vendors wanting a cheap 8800 to beef up the specs of their retail systems.



i think u are right.. they simply claim their box has the 8800 card in the specs.. the name has some value even if the card carrying it dosnt..

and saving even a few pence makes sense to the oem box makers..

trog


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## btarunr (Dec 29, 2007)

Yup Trog, me agrees. Not only OEMs but....read #9


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## 1c3d0g (Dec 29, 2007)

Weer: at higher resolutions I'm afraid your theory will not hold water. The superior memory bandwidth of the 8800GT will prove to be beneficial for enabling 4xAA, for instance.


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## largon (Dec 29, 2007)

Weer said:


> (...)
> I still say it's a type-o, and I say that you are condesending. If you really thought I'd be stupid enough not to notice the difference in memory bus, you'd have to be pretty pathetic to call me out on it.


WTF is your problem? 

And please get your facts right: 
5% higher mem freq does nothing for GS as 192bit bus eats away a quarter of it's memory bandwidth compared to GT. 

GT: 
256bit @ 900MHz (DDR1800) 
= 57.6GB/s

GS: 
192bit @ 950MHz (DDR1900) 
= 45.6GB/s (-26.3%)

On top of that we got the 25% lower ROP count for GS - which devastates pixel fillrate:

GT: 
16ROPs @ 600MHz
= 9.6GPixels/s

GS: 
12ROPs @ 650MHz
= 7.8GPixels/s (-23.1%)


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## musek (Dec 29, 2007)

Pretty nice score if You ask me!
IMO, 768MB version can be real hottie... 

One thing that brings me down - ATI. Damn, they really have to do SOMETHING. We do not want nVidia to be 'the one and only'... :/


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## btarunr (Dec 29, 2007)

8800 - GTS (G80 320M), 8800 GTS (G80 640M), 8800 GTS (G92 512M), 8800 GT (G92 256M), 8800 GT (G92 512M), 8800 GS (G92 384M), 8800 GS (G92 768M), 8800 GTX, 8800 Ultra....

Where's this going to stop? So many variants definitely are diluting the brand value of the 8800 series. I think NVidia is just trying to make a quick buck before the GeForce 9 series and so...we have this. Consumers are bamboozled with so much variations, they just look at the price ant make a pick. A smart ploy actually to attract people to buying a $200 Geforce *8800*


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## tvdang7 (Dec 29, 2007)

watch theres gonna be a shortage on these too.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Dec 29, 2007)

Makes no differance really,just like the 8800gt,they will be like rocking horse poo in the uk.


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## Rizzy2DarQ (Dec 29, 2007)

I just feel sorry for those who buy the old 8800 GTS 640mb for Uk prices.. (£200+)


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## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2007)

rhythmeister said:


> Looks like a bargain card, get em while they're HOT



i think i will im running 128bit with 256mb vidram and 32shaders...eaither way i see an ipgrade in even bit interface.


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## InfDamarvel (Dec 29, 2007)

I think they are trying to get rid of parts but ummm I have to say this will be a good competitor for the 3850. Cant wait to get pissed off if this things beats out my HD3850 that I just brought.


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## Black Panther (Dec 29, 2007)

Weer said:


> No, the GT does not "win".
> 
> The 64 extra bit on the memory bus aren't going to make much difference in performance.
> Where as the extra 100Mhz memory clock on the GS and the extra 50Mhz core clock will.
> ...



The 'parking space' is bigger, but the 'roads connecting them' are narrower....

Guess we won't be knowing where it places until we see actual benchmarks.

Edit: Largon's post makes sense - I wish I was capable of making those calculations myself...


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## TheGuruStud (Dec 29, 2007)

ROFLCOPTERING at all the noobs


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## Weer (Dec 30, 2007)

largon said:


> WTF is your problem?
> 
> And please get your facts right:
> 5% higher mem freq does nothing for GS as 192bit bus eats away a quarter of it's memory bandwidth compared to GT.
> ...



I explained what my problem with you is. Read between the lines.

The difference in ROP and memory bandwidth strength will be nothing compared to the extra 50Mhz on the 112 SPs.

The GS should be minimally inferior and a much better buy with 768MB.


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## btarunr (Dec 30, 2007)

A deficiency of 4 ROPs does make a huge impact, Weer. 768MB of memory on a 192-bit bus hardly amounts to anything despite a 50 MHz increment. The bandwidth would still remain lower than that of a 8800 GT. Among mid-range cards, the Radeon HD3870 has the best memory sub-system with 512 MB on a 256-bit GDDR4 memory bus.


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## hat (Dec 30, 2007)

192-bit? :/


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## largon (Dec 30, 2007)

Weer said:


> The difference in ROP and memory bandwidth strength will be nothing compared to the extra 50Mhz on the 112 SPs.


You mean the extra 125MHz (1625MHz vs 1500MHz)? That's a mere 8.3% advantage for GS in shader core throughput. I'd bet that's not enough to be anywhere near to compensate 25% inferior fillrate AND memory bandwidth. 
But ofcourse, I could be wrong... 





Black Panther said:


> largon's post makes sense - I wish I was capable of making those calculations myself...


It's really very simple, just multiply the operating frequency by amount of buswidth/shaders/TMUs/ROPs or whatever you're calculating. 
Here's an example how to convert buswidth and frequency to bandwidth (GB/s):
256bit @ 900MHz (DDR1800) 
= 256bit × 1800MHz
= 460800Mbit/s
Divide this by 8 and to get MB/s (8bits = 1byte):
= 57600MB/s
= 57.6GB/s


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## v-zero (Dec 30, 2007)

Weer said:


> I explained what my problem with you is. Read between the lines.
> 
> The difference in ROP and memory bandwidth strength will be nothing compared to the extra 50Mhz on the 112 SPs.
> 
> The GS should be minimally inferior and a much better buy with 768MB.



It will of course be slower. Lack of ROPs and memory starvation will do that to a card. That 125mhz on the shaders will be pissed into the wind...


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## AddSub (Dec 30, 2007)

> It will of course be slower. Lack of ROPs and memory starvation will do that to a card. That 125mhz on the shaders will be pissed into the wind...



Yeah, pretty much. This is just an attempt by nvidia to cover the midrange GPU market in which ATI is currently performing pretty well with their 2900GT, 2900PRO, and HD3850 cards which are getting cheaper by the day. For instance, a 2900PRO with 512MB of VRAM, with a 512bit bus can be had on Newegg for like $169.99. Free s&h. Not a bad deal, since these can be overclocked severely to 2900XT speeds or more. I mean, 8800GT is nice, but since it is obvious nvidia is having problems with supply on their end, and ATI probably ships 4-5 or more HD3850 cards for every 8800GT nvidia does, I am pretty sure nvidia is scrambling to cover their ass somehow. 8800GS is a feeble attempt at it. What did they think? They could coast on 8800GTS 92sp popularity and reputation forever?


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## Deleted member 24505 (Dec 30, 2007)

If they dont have enuff 8800gt's to supply,how the hell will they have enuff of these?


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## btarunr (Dec 30, 2007)

I could be wrong but the 8800GT was prematurely launched to retaliate to the HD3000 series launch. They'd made them in limited quantities back then, just to tell people "hey we've a better product for this price." It kind of backfired when they couldn't keep upto the demand and ATI made merry selling the HD3000 to X-Mas shoppers who couldn't wait for NVidia to bring in fresh stock.


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## DarkMatter (Dec 31, 2007)

btarunr said:


> 8800 - GTS (G80 320M), 8800 GTS (G80 640M), 8800 GTS (G92 512M), 8800 GT (G92 256M), 8800 GT (G92 512M), 8800 GS (G92 384M), 8800 GS (G92 768M), 8800 GTX, 8800 Ultra....
> 
> Where's this going to stop? So many variants definitely are diluting the brand value of the 8800 series. I think NVidia is just trying to make a quick buck before the GeForce 9 series and so...we have this. Consumers are bamboozled with so much variations, they just look at the price ant make a pick. A smart ploy actually to attract people to buying a $200 Geforce *8800*



Although there's clearly an issue with the naming, there's not such a big flooding as you point out. Not bigger than in previous generations at least.

Nvidia - 7800GS (G70 256MB), 7800GT (G70 256MB),7800GTX (G70 256MB), 7800GTX 512 (G70 512MB), 7900GS (G71 256MB), 7900GT (G71 256MB) , 7900GTO (G71 512MB), 7900GTX (G71 512MB), 7900GX2 (G71 1024MB), 7950GT (G71 256MB), 7950GT (G71 512MB), 7950GX2 (G71 1024MB).

Ati - X1800 GTO (R520 256MB), X1800 GTO Rev. 2 (R520 256MB), X1800 XL (R520 256MB), AIW X1800 XL (R520 256MB), X1800 XT (R520 256MB), X1800 XT (R520 512MB), X1900 GT (R580 256MB), X1900 GT Rev. 2 (R580 256MB), AIW X1900 (R580 256MB), X1900 Crossfire Edition (R580 512MB), X1900 XT (R580 256MB), X1900 XT (R580 512MB), X1900 XTX (R580 512MB), X1950 XT (R580 256MB), X1950 XT (R580 512MB), X1950 XTX (R580+ 512MB), X1900 GT (RV570 256MB), X1900 GT (RV570 512MB), X1900 Pro (RV570 256MB), X1900 Pro (RV570 512MB).

As you can see, they have a long way to cach up to the previous generation. They should have named G92 with something like 8900 or 8850, there's no doubt about that, but this is something that has been discussed a lot too.


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## DarkMatter (Dec 31, 2007)

tigger69 said:


> If they dont have enuff 8800gt's to supply,how the hell will they have enuff of these?



Probably they have "optimized" the process to make G92. To optimize the fabrication process means that they have found a way to make them faster and cheaper, but at the same time it is probable that they have encountered a higher number of chips that don't qualify as 8800GT or GTS (lower yields). That is, they have lower yields for the GT and GTS, but at the same time, a large number of the "failing" chips are similar enough to make a GS line.

This doesn't mean they are going to have less GT's or GTS's, because, as I said, they have found a way to make them faster, i.e:

Before - They are able to make 100 G92 chips/hour. 40 of them are GTS, 50 GT and 10 are "failing" chips. Some of those failing could qualify as GS chips, but they are really scarce so they can't justify the creation of a new card. They probably store them somewhere.

After optimization - They are able to make 200 chips/hour. 55 are GTS, 75 are GT. Out of the remaining 70 most of them qualify as what the GS is and now there are enough of them to justify a new card in the line.

These numbers are false and exagerated, but I think they represent very well how it works.


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## musek (Dec 31, 2007)

In addition - G80 chips are EOL from January 2008 - almost all facturing forces from G80 will be producing G92 now.


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## jpierce55 (Dec 31, 2007)

Weer said:


> No, the GT does not "win".
> 
> The 64 extra bit on the memory bus aren't going to make much difference in performance.
> Where as the extra 100Mhz memory clock on the GS and the extra 50Mhz core clock will.
> ...


4 more rops, and and the memory bus, the GT will win.


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## JrRacinFan (Dec 31, 2007)

If nVidia doesn't be careful soon they will find themselves competing in sales against who else but themselves!

Although the sound of a GS model is pretty cool though. It will fall in between the gap of the HD3850 and HD3870.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Dec 31, 2007)

dang ... but wont teh bus width be choking teh card?


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## JrRacinFan (Dec 31, 2007)

[I.R.A]_FBi said:


> dang ... but wont teh bus width be choking teh card?



Exactly the whole point of buying this card. I don't think it would hold the card back much after a RAM overclock. 

Guys think this thing would match that of G80 GTS?


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Alot more GS will be available due to many G92s not making it up to GT Speeds, usually the inferior chips make for the lower cards.


tigger69 said:


> If they dont have enuff 8800gt's to supply,how the hell will they have enuff of these?


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## a111087 (Jan 2, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> Alot more GS will be available due to many G92s not making it up to GT Speeds, usually the inferior chips make for the lower cards.



absolutely agree, I will probably wait for this card


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## zekrahminator (Jan 2, 2008)

In the long run, it doesn't really matter how they make the card, what will matter is how it performs.


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