# Question about casefan setup.



## Jerico (Mar 14, 2021)

Good day. so i have a question about my fan setup. I have 3 intake fans at the front. 1 exhaust at the rear and top. Is that good? I still see some high temps... And how much clearance should the exhaust fans have, they are pretty close to the walls. Thanks for helping!

Specs:
Case: KOLINK Observatory
Motherboard: Z490-A PRO
RAM: 16GB DDR4
CPU: i7-10700
GPU: GTX 1070Ti Founders Edition
PSU: 500W corsair


----------



## P4-630 (Mar 14, 2021)

If the front of your case is a glass panel you won't get much fresh air inside the case.
A mesh frontpanel is best for optimal airflow and lower temps.
Also it depends on what fans you are using.


----------



## Jerico (Mar 14, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> If the front of your case is a glass panel you won't get much fresh air inside the case.
> A mesh frontpanel is best for optimal airflow and lower temps.
> Also it depends on what fans you are using.


Yeah it is a glass front panel... I have 120mm Kolink fans.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 14, 2021)

You say your getting high temps, but haven't said exactly how high, what your doing when you get the high temps, what OC and voltage you have set, and what you are cooling the CPU with. What may be high temps to you may actually be normal temps for the 10700k at the clocks and voltage you are running.


----------



## P4-630 (Mar 14, 2021)

Jerico said:


> Yeah it is a glass front panel... I have 120mm Kolink fans.



Try testing without the glass front panel.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 14, 2021)

Like I asked in my previous reply, what temps are you getting? What OC and voltage are you running? What cooling do you have for your 10700k? What are you doing when you get those temps? This is my temps with my 10850k under full load running 5GHz with 1.29 volts and a 240mm AIO cooler-


----------



## P4-630 (Mar 14, 2021)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Like I asked in my previous reply, what temps are you getting? What OC and voltage are you running? What cooling do you have for your 10700k?



OP says he has a i7-10700 non-K.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 14, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> OP says he has a i7-10700 non-K.


opps, thought I saw a K at the end, but still, if the OP has it locked to all core (not sure if possible with a non-K cpu) or running default voltage settings, that could most definitely contribute, or straight up cause his high temps, or he's running 70-80'c at 100% full load under a stock heatsink, his temps may be perfectly normal


----------



## ThrashZone (Mar 14, 2021)

Hi,
Front fans want to push air through the case and out the back
If the actual exhaust fan is too close to the wall then that will likely effect air going out the back too except in that one spot.
Advise would be move the exhaust fan to the top of the case.


----------



## Jerico (Mar 14, 2021)

BarbaricSoul said:


> You say your getting high temps, but haven't said exactly how high, what your doing when you get the high temps, what OC and voltage you have set, and what you are cooling the CPU with. What may be high temps to you may actually be normal temps for the 10700k at the clocks and voltage you are running.


I only get these high temps on my GPU. It goes up to 83 where the temp limit is set. Don't have any problems with my CPU. I bought the CPU completely new and have it in my setup for around a week. The GPU is a few years old though. CPU is around 48C° max


----------



## P4-630 (Mar 14, 2021)

Jerico said:


> CPU is around 48C° max



That's really low somewhat's hard to believe this max, only if you have the PC in a cool area with water cooling.
How hot does it really get when you run a game.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 14, 2021)

Ok, so we are working with GPU temps, not CPU temps. How are you monitoring your GPU temps? Do you have a custom fan curve set? what clocks is the 1070 running at?
83' is high for a 1070ti FE. My RTX 2070 FE with a bad fan stays below 75'c while being OC'ed. Has it always ran temps like it is now? I've never had the issue before, but I have read of people with GPUs that running temps had substantially increased over time as the thermal paste used in assembly starts to dry out and go bad.


----------



## Jerico (Mar 14, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> Try testing without the glass front panel.


I tried that and did a benchmark with both glass installed and without. Only made a difference of about 2C°


----------



## P4-630 (Mar 14, 2021)

Dust in the GPU heatsink?


----------



## Jerico (Mar 14, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> That's really low somewhat's hard to believe this max, only if you have the PC in a cool area with water cooling.
> How hot does it really get when you run a game.


I haven't really played any games that are hard to run yet. That's just the temps for CSGO etc. I can run a benchmark in a sec and tell ya



P4-630 said:


> Dust in the GPU heatsink?


I've cleaned it when i installed it into the new pc so i dont think so.



BarbaricSoul said:


> Ok, so we are working with GPU temps, not CPU temps. How are you monitoring your GPU temps? Do you have a custom fan curve set? what clocks is the 1070 running at?
> 83' is high for a 1070ti FE. My RTX 2070 FE with a bad fan stays below 75'c while being OC'ed. Has it always ran temps like it is now? I've never had the issue before, but I have read of people with GPUs that running temps had substantially increased over time as the thermal paste used in assembly starts to dry out and go bad.


I am monitoring them with MSI afterburner. I do not have a custom fan curve set yet. Temps are in general really bad. Idle's at around 45-50C°


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 14, 2021)

CSGO is not going to push a 10700 to high temps. I mean, CSGO requires only a C2D E6600 for a CPU

try setting a custom fan curve. I normally run a curve where the fan runs at 1% of it's speed for every degree the GPU is running at. 30'c my fan runs at 30%, 50'c my fan runs at 50%, but from there, I set it to run fans at 100% at 80'c


----------



## Jerico (Mar 14, 2021)

BarbaricSoul said:


> CSGO is not going to push a 10700 to high temps. I mean, CSGO requires only a C2D E6600 for a CPU
> 
> try setting a custom fan curve. I normally run a curve where the fan runs at 1% of it's speed for every degree the GPU is running at. 30'c my fan runs at 30%, 50'c my fan runs at 50%, but from there, I set it to run fans at 100% at 80'c
> 
> View attachment 192349


OK, i have adjusted the fan curve. I will hop into a stress test and see if that made a difference.

Did a stress test. GPU still running too hot and capping itself... Did a CPU stress test too. Temps are 50-55 C°


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 14, 2021)

try taking the side panel off the case to see if that helps your GPU temps. If this does not help temps, the issue is not with the case, but rather is something going on with the GPU its self


----------



## ThrashZone (Mar 14, 2021)

Hi,
Indeed op has already said the back of the computer is close to the wall.


----------



## Jerico (Mar 14, 2021)

BarbaricSoul said:


> try taking the side panel off the case to see if that helps your GPU temps. If this does not help temps, it issue is not with the case, but rather is something going on with the GPU its self


Took the side panel off. Like with the front panel it only made a difference of about 2-3C°. After running the stress test a bit longer the GPU still reached the max temp point. Should i try and clean the filter/ new thermal paste? I am probably going to switch to the RTX 3070 eventually tho


----------



## P4-630 (Mar 14, 2021)

Jerico said:


> I am probably going to switch to the RTX 3070 eventually tho



Just don't buy a FE or blower style GPU.
Check reviews before buying.


----------



## Jerico (Mar 14, 2021)

Alright, Thank you guys for your help. Appreciate it! I was worried it was a case problem but it is definitely a GPU problem. Have a great day and again thanks!


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 14, 2021)

I would do everything I could to get the temps on the 1070ti to where they should be, if for no other reason than to sell it when you do get a 3070. I have people standing in line to buy my 2070 at $600, and I only paid $325 for it (I was hooked up)


----------



## Jerico (Mar 14, 2021)

BarbaricSoul said:


> I would do everything I could to get the temps on the 1070ti to where they should be, if for no other reason than to sell it when you do get a 3070. I have people standing in line to buy my 2070 at $600, and I only paid $325 for it (I was hooked up)


Yeah i see. I can change out the thermal paste and really deep clean it. Hopefully i can get some money for it....


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 14, 2021)

regular 1070 cards are selling for $4-500 on the used market right now


----------



## Jerico (Mar 14, 2021)

BarbaricSoul said:


> regular 1070 cards are selling for $4-500 on the used market right now


Damn. that's not bad at all. Really worth it to try and fix the GPU. Thanks for the info.


----------



## ThrashZone (Mar 14, 2021)

Hi,
2-3c still shows it has bad case air flow 
Maybe post an image where this case is sitting.


----------



## Jerico (Mar 14, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 2-3c still shows it has bad case air flow
> Maybe post an image where this case is sitting.


Sure do.


----------



## claes (Mar 14, 2021)

Some things to try as long as you’re playing around:
Move the top-rear exhaust to top-front intake — your case is choked for intake and is probably exhausting cool air over the CPU too quickly for the front intakes to ever reach the GPU

Try removing the PCI brackets on empty slots — this helps more with axial GPU coolers but might help your radial cooler get more space to exhaust. Since your GPU exhausts air straight out of the chassis it’d be ideal to have more space between the rear of the case and your wall, so if you can create space that’d help, but we all work with what we have 

Consider removing the top-filter — with a top intake dust is an issue but it should be fine on top of your desk


----------



## Caring1 (Mar 15, 2021)

Jerico said:


> Good day. so i have a question about my fan setup. I have 3 intake fans at the front. 1 exhaust at the rear and top. Is that good? I still see some high temps... And how much clearance should the exhaust fans have, they are pretty close to the walls. Thanks for helping!
> 
> Specs:
> Case: KOLINK Observatory


Simple solution is move the front fans from in the front panel to behind it, inside the case, that will allow more space for airflow.


----------



## claes (Mar 15, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Simple solution is move the front fans from in the front panel to behind it, inside the case, that will allow more space for airflow.


It looks like they may only be able to move the top two but great idea


----------



## Kissamies (Mar 15, 2021)

Whoever designed that front intake, should be fired. Not saying that my Define Mini C has the best intake, but at least I can have the fans inside the case, giving much more airflow.


----------



## FireFox (Mar 15, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> If the front of your case is a glass panel you won't get much fresh air inside the case.


Does that apply to any case with Glass panel?


----------



## P4-630 (Mar 15, 2021)

Knoxx29 said:


> Does that apply to any case with Glass panel?



When your air intake fans are almost against it.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 15, 2021)

I mean, I have a FT04 case, it has 2 huge 240mm fans behind a solid panel. They don't get choked because it has side intakes for the fans. I assume the OP case is of a similar design


----------



## FireFox (Mar 15, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> When your air intake fans are almost against it.


I was just curious but then i measured the space between fans and the glass panel and it is 8cm which is enough.


----------



## ThrashZone (Mar 15, 2021)

Hi,
Larger front screens are always less restrictive but it's not part of the rgb bling society view so large screens are gone and favoring plexi and side venting
I only have one rgb fan and placed next to my reservoirs so I can easy see fluid level.


----------



## dirtyferret (Mar 15, 2021)

BarbaricSoul said:


> try taking the side panel off the case to see if that helps your GPU temps. If this does not help temps, the issue is not with the case, but rather is something going on with the GPU its self



first helpful comment is almost at the end of the first page but then we get this...



ThrashZone said:


> 2-3c still shows it has bad case air flow



how this you possibly come to this conclusion with a case that has a side panel removed?


----------



## ThrashZone (Mar 15, 2021)

dirtyferret said:


> how this you possibly come to this conclusion with a case that has a side panel removed?


Hi,
Because the temperature dropped 2-3c is that hard to understand.



Jerico said:


> Sure do.


Bingo forget the back and make the top exhaust.


----------



## P4-630 (Mar 15, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Because the temperature dropped 2-3c is that hard to understand.



OP mentioned -2 degrees when the front panel was off.


----------



## ThrashZone (Mar 15, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> OP mentioned -2 degrees when the front panel was off.


Hi,
If he takes the side panel off temps will drop more.
He finally posted an image it seems pretty obvious why temps are off.


----------



## dirtyferret (Mar 15, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Because the temperature dropped 2-3c is that hard to understand.



barbaric answered that 



BarbaricSoul said:


> try taking the side panel off the case to see if that helps your GPU temps. If this does not help temps, the issue is not with the case, but rather is something going on with the GPU its self





ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> If he takes the side panel off temps will drop more.
> He finally posted an image it seems pretty obvious why temps are off.


he did take the side panel off and his temps dropped 2-3c as the OP stated, front panel would have minimal impact on the GPU compared to the side panel


----------



## ThrashZone (Mar 15, 2021)

dirtyferret said:


> barbaric answered that


Hi,
So someone else "answered" that ?
Op hasn't confirmed one way or another if he tried removing the side panel which I too would "recommend" removing it.


----------



## dirtyferret (Mar 15, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> So someone else "answered" that ?
> Op hasn't confirmed one way or another if he tried removing the side panel which I too would "recommend" removing it.



you missed his post



Jerico said:


> Took the side panel off. Like with the front panel it only made a difference of about 2-3C°. After running the stress test a bit longer the GPU still reached the max temp point. Should i try and clean the filter/ new thermal paste? I am probably going to switch to the RTX 3070 eventually tho


----------



## ThrashZone (Mar 15, 2021)

dirtyferret said:


> you missed his post


Hi,
Wrong.


----------



## dirtyferret (Mar 15, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Wrong.


wrong you missed his post and failed to realize he already posted about his side panel being off? So you saw his post and then said



ThrashZone said:


> If he takes the side panel off temps will drop more.



after he said



Jerico said:


> Took the side panel off. Like with the front panel it only made a difference of about 2-3C°.


----------



## ThrashZone (Mar 15, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> 2-3c still shows it has bad case air flow
> Maybe post an image where this case is sitting.





Jerico said:


> Sure do.


Hi,
Image shows clearly what the problem is.


----------



## dirtyferret (Mar 15, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Image shows clearly what the problem is.



Yes the case front panel sucks for airflow but the OP removed the front panel with little difference to temps so the front panel may suck but is not the issue as stated above by barbaricsoul.  The OP then removed the side panel which enables GPUs to pull in considerable outside air regardless of a front panel and temps showed little improvement.  All the signs point to


BarbaricSoul said:


> If this does not help temps, the issue is not with the case, but rather is something going on with the GPU its self



That you fail to see this only proves you fail to understand basic airflow and how and where HSF pull in air.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 16, 2021)

Can you not see the intake vents on the front sides of the OP's case?


----------



## FireFox (Mar 16, 2021)

It's pretty clear but those fans seems to be asking for help


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Mar 16, 2021)

dirtyferret said:


> first helpful comment is almost at the end of the first page but then we get this...


Actually, I thought the first helpful post would have been determining we were talking abour GPU temps and not CPU temps, or me asking about the OP's fan curve for the GPU.

@ThrashZone seriously, the 2-3 degree the OP got when he took the side panel off the case is irrelevant in this situation. The OP GPU is hitting 83'c and throttling (meaning it's trying to heat up even more). 2-3'c will not prevent that from happening. It would only prolong the time it take for the GPU to start throttling by 5 or so minutes. Regardless of the OP's case air flow, that is not the issue here. Something is wrong with the video card it's self.


----------



## ThrashZone (Mar 19, 2021)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Actually, I thought the first helpful post would have been determining we were talking abour GPU temps and not CPU temps, or me asking about the OP's fan curve for the GPU.
> 
> @ThrashZone seriously, the 2-3 degree the OP got when he took the side panel off the case is irrelevant in this situation. The OP GPU is hitting 83'c and throttling (meaning it's trying to heat up even more). 2-3'c will not prevent that from happening. It would only prolong the time it take for the GPU to start throttling by 5 or so minutes. Regardless of the OP's case air flow, that is not the issue here. Something is wrong with the video card it's self.


Hi,
But also the back of the case is not open 
There's cabinet walls on each side and the wall looks pretty close to the back of the case too this is the obvious part I was referring too not the silly side vent lol those are always known to restrict air so nothing new there.


----------



## dirtyferret (Mar 19, 2021)




----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 19, 2021)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Can you not see the intake vents on the front sides of the OP's case?
> View attachment 192649


I swear once you go mesh front you never go back.


----------



## PaulieG (Mar 19, 2021)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Can you not see the intake vents on the front sides of the OP's case?
> View attachment 192649


Still, it's just a horrible design. I just don't know why manufacturers put 3 fans (or mounting for 3 fans) then choke them out with side vents. If they aren't going to do mesh on the front cover, at least widen the side vents or something. I built 2  identical budget gaming machine a few months using little Darkflash DLM 21's. One had the side vents like this, and the other had a full mesh front cover. The ambient temp inside the case was literally 9 degrees cooler in the mesh version. Cpu gap was ever wider at full load, like 11c.


----------



## dirtyferret (Mar 20, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> Still, it's just a horrible design. I just don't know why manufacturers put 3 fans (or mounting for 3 fans) then choke them out with side vents. If they aren't going to do mesh on the front cover, at least widen the side vents or something. I built 2  identical budget gaming machine a few months using little Darkflash DLM 21's. One had the side vents like this, and the other had a full mesh front cover. The ambient temp inside the case was literally 9 degrees cooler in the mesh version. Cpu gap was ever wider at full load, like 11c.


Because people wanted that cool clean look of a solid panel or glass to show off those rgb lights and were completely shocked that choking the front panel air supply would increase temps.  Who would have known?


----------



## John Naylor (Mar 20, 2021)

You should watch the Hardware Cannucks review of the 600S to see how many common fallacies about case design get blown outta the water.  The chocking that is often assumed in such designs never materializes because the front side vents which were shown in previous photo, provide more than enough air flow.   We conduct a smoke of test case airflow before  installing componentry on every build and there is no observable difference in air flow dynamics wither way.  Actual testing shows less than a 4% impact.    So anyone who has actually done testing or observed testing with actual measuring instruments is well aware that there is no observable impact and tiny measurable impact.

There is no choking, the vents on the side of the panels provide more than enough intakle air and this has been proven by actual testing.   IT has been shown that "mesh" provides more air resistance than the solid panel simply because *the solid panel is not in the air flow path*.  The air isn't coming in from the front, it's coming in thru the sides a_s was shown in the previous posters photo markup_. ....A case behaves no different than a building.  The only thing that determines cooling ability in any enclosure are:

a)  the volume of air that flows thru the system (air changes per hour)
b)  the open area available for the air to pass thru
c)  the ability of the fan to overcome any back pressure caused by air resistance.

If you take off a side panel and use a desk fan to blow air into the case and you don't see temperature drops of more than 2-3 C, you do NOT have case air flow issues.  If you have any doubt, see actual testing destroy common case myths here:










1.  Here, we see a default air flow of 271 ft/min with a *solid plastic front panel* similar to the glass on front panel and the side inlets similar to what the OP has.
2.   So when you tilt the panel out, opening up the entire front area to air flow, if that assumption of front panel obstruction was true ... we should see a massive increase in air flow ... but we don't.  Air flow only increases by 3.7% to to 281 ft/min.  At this point let me save some folks the embarrassment of claiming that "well even angled, it still blocks air flow" ... well, another mouth busted, it does not.  With the panel completely removed instead of angled, there is NO CHANGE in air flow; it remains 281 ft/min.  The thought to take home here is that while the change in tilting the panel out is not observable, it is measurable.  So a user can leave the panel closed while doing normal PS operations but when running stress tests or extreme gaming, they can tilt the panel out and increase air flow by over 3% .  Yes they could take the panel off because of the mistaken assumption that something will be accomplished, but there will be no observable nor measurable increase in air flow.
3.   Next they take off the hexagonal mesh with it's huge openings and here we see yet another myth about mesh cases destroyed.    Removing the mesh produces the largest increase in air flow of removing any other item.  Taking out the mesh increases air flow by 19 ft/min ... a 6.8% increase in air flow.   Get it ?  *The biggest thing you can do to improve air flow in solid front panel / side vent designs is remove the mesh.  Might not work as well on every case, but the design theory is proven sound*.
--- Take of the mesh gain 19 ft/min ....
--- Take off the solid front cover get half the benefit of removing the mesh at 10 ft/min
--- Unavoidable / Irrefutable Conclusion ...* the mesh has almost twice the negative impact on air flow as the solid cover*
4.  Finally take off the dust filter and pick up another 13 ft/min

In summary:

Open Mesh has a performance penalty of 6.76%
Dust Filter has a performance penalty of 4.33%
Removing Solid Front Cover as a performance penalty of 3.69%

Another thing to watch with case air flow design is the balance between intake and exhaust, especially if your fans are equipped with dust filters.  While, when clean, you may have a restriction of say 5%, this can grow to 20% when dirty and even 33% if you are like my son and when you peel off the dust layer from the filter, you can make a quilt.  Let's look at a typical 3 in (front 2 out all the same fan and all have a flow rate of EQ cfm

The 3 in have say 25% of the flow lost to air flow restriction of the dirty filter.

So that's:

3 x EQ x  75% = 2.25 EQ in
2 x EQ x  100% =  2.00 EQ out

Ok every thing is good .. In > Out.  Now the user adds and AIO and for reasons I can never fathom, and against manufacturer's published installation instructions, the user sets up fans to use the preheated case inside air to cool their rad / CPU.  Now that's 3 in and 3 out.

3 x EQ x  75% = 2.25 EQ in
3 x EQ x  100% =  3.00 EQ out *

* Note while the rad may cause some restriction also, the extreme speed fans that come with the AIO will offset this.

That creates a negative pressure situation where make up air needs to come in from outside thru and remaining case openings.  The path of least resistance will be the rear grill and vented slot covers.   And the air just outisede those lacations is what ?  I's hot exhaust air from your PSU an a bit of your GFX card exhaust.


----------



## Caring1 (Mar 20, 2021)

John Naylor said:


> The chocking that is often assumed in such designs never materializes because the front side vents which were shown in previous photo, provide more than enough air flow.


Ok John, you believe that if you want, I believe science.
Having the fans in the front panel adjacent to the glass restricts air flow, moving them back in to the case behind the front panel as I suggested earlier gives the fans more room to breathe, try your "smoke test" and let me know when you find out I'm right so I can read it here.


----------



## dirtyferret (Mar 20, 2021)

John Naylor said:


> You should watch the Hardware Cannucks review of the 600S to see how many common fallacies about case design get blown outta the water.  The chocking that is often assumed in such designs never materializes because the front side vents which were shown in previous photo, provide more than enough air flow.   We conduct a smoke of test case airflow before  installing componentry on every build and there is no observable difference in air flow dynamics wither way.  Actual testing shows less than a 4% impact.    So anyone who has actually done testing or observed testing with actual measuring instruments is well aware that there is no observable impact and tiny measurable impact.



I can't speak for the 600S but I ran a similar test on my Phanteks 400s as I have both the mesh front and the closed front panel with the top and bottom vent slits.  I saw my CPU temps drop 4-5c going from the closed front to the mesh front running Intel benchmarks over several tests; to the point that I was getting the same temps with my side panel and front panel completely off as I was with the mesh front cover.  GN saw similar results in their tests as well.  I did not test on the GPU as I expected those results to have a smaller impact.


----------

