# Omen 15 dc0003la (8750h) Overheating and Random Shutdowns



## AetherZeta (Mar 23, 2021)

So this is a problem that's cost me a large portion of my sanity...

My Omen 15 laptop is simply a mess right now. It's undervolted at -157, core and cache at the same value. I can't tell if I even made a difference at all.
The main thing: PC heats up like an oven, changed the thermal paste and cleaned it, nothing. Sent it to repair and all they did was change the thermal paste again, not even sure if they cleaned up the pc, said there was "nothing else they could do". 
Of course, barely helped but probably just delay my PC's "descent" to 97°C whenever anything heavy runs.
To make matters worse: PC turns off randomly without a specific reason. Using different TPL combinations (commonly reducing TPL, of course) turns out in a red POWER in throttlestop and most of the time I at least directly link to the random shutdowns, because now that I'm in the default 45-70 TPL I haven't had a single shutdown, but idle (6% - 15%) temps are 58°C. TS Bench throws it into a volcano almost, with fans running like jet engines, and from 70°C-80°C it quickly escalates to 85, 90, then 97°C.

At least after I sent it to support and fixed up the TS settings a bit I only see this awful idle temp, pkg power fluctuation, cpu usage being random from 6 to 15-20 for no reason (I consider it idle nonetheless but still is pretty weird.) but at least on the TS Bench it stays at 90°C max before the bench stops, haven't tried any other benchmarking.

Tried mostly everything from:
- lowering TPL (increases shutdown frequency),
- lowering tpl cores/disabling turbo (underclocks CPU completely),
- larger undervolt (common undervolt errors with no noticeable fix to the problem at hand.)
- shorter undervolt (does this even help?)
- switching to XTU (XTU doesn't even save settings properly and I doubt it'll fix the issue at all, noticed no difference either.)
- enabling and disabling BD prochot (no idea if it even makes things worse or not or whatever)

Some notes:
- Prochot I set to 0 for it to be at 100°C so it doesn't shutdown randomly, not even sure if that helps at all but I'll keep it there, why not? Default Prochot is 97°C though.
- Shutdown meaning: My PC's screen will go black then the PC turns off. Before it would "hibernate" with sometimes BIOS overheat messages popping up but now it straight up just shuts down. Not even sure if it's just overheat shutdowns because I would be gaming at 60-70°C's with TPL limits lowered playing for like two hours before it shutdown for no reason, next time I started it up, only using chrome, it shutdown, not even 5 minutes later.

Photos attached, didn't show CPU cache because it's set the same as core.

Help me out here, please, let's just say it's not economically possible to change PCs. At least not yet. 
My country's politicians are discussing a law that lets people withdraw 10% of the money from life savings for the third time and my parents will be able to help fund another if that works but so far no luck with that.

Thanks in advance fellas.


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## unclewebb (Mar 23, 2021)

AetherZeta said:


> It's undervolted at -157, core and cache


I have never seen an 8750H that was 100% stable with the cache at -158 mV. Most start to lose stability when the cache is over -125 mV or -130 mV.

Do some testing with Cinebench R20.








						MAXON Cinebench (R20.0) Download
					

CINEBENCH is a real-world cross platform test suite that evaluates your computer's performance capabilities. CINEBENCH is based on MAXON's award-winn




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Most people get their best results if the cache is reduced a little. This allows them to set the core offset much higher to -200 mV or -225 mV. The core and cache do not need to be set equally. Here is some Cinebench testing that proves this.






						Cinebench Test.zip
					






					drive.google.com
				






AetherZeta said:


> cpu usage being random from 6 to 15-20 for no reason


There is always a reason. Open the Task Manager, go to the Details tab and find out what is running on your computer. When properly setup, Windows 10 can be extremely lean. Use ShutUp10 to turn off some of the useless features. Not a lot of C0 state activity on my computer when it is idle.






You have installed something on your computer without paying attention to what it is doing to your computer. Only you can track down and fix that problem. 



AetherZeta said:


> XTU doesn't even save settings properly


That is a common problem for Intel XTU. I always like hearing about the competition. I guess Intel has still not fixed that bug.



AetherZeta said:


> Prochot is 97°C


Some laptops set the PROCHOT temperature slightly less than the 100°C default. Why do they do this? The Intel thermal shut down temperature is somewhere around 125°C. Some laptop manufacturers thought that was too high so they have decided to do a thermal shut down at 100°C. It was never Intel's intent for the throttling and shut down to be set to the same temperature so now they are forced to reduce the throttling temperature. Probably best to leave PROCHOT Offset at 3 so your computer has a little bit of headroom before shutting down at high temperatures.

If your Omen has poor cooling, lower the PL2 power limit from 70W to maybe 60W. You can also lower the turbo time limit so it does not spend so much time at the high power limit before switching to 45W.

Fix up these settings, turn on the Log File option and then go play a game for at least 15 minutes. Attach a log file to your next post so I can see how your computer is running. Hard to make suggestions without seeing a log file. You can also copy and paste the data to www.pastebin.com


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## AetherZeta (Mar 23, 2021)

Thanks for the fast reply, I'll test right now and see how it goes, will update when I'm done.

Back with results.

So, lowered C0% with ShutUp10, didn't even need to restart. Disabling Windows's dumb telemetry services netted me a good reduction of usage as well, closing discord, tidal and others and then I ran the test.
Didn't go past 88 much, grazed 90 once and never again from when I was looking.
Looking at the logs though, whenever I ran the test it reads PL1 right off the bat..
TPL 45-60 at 7 seconds, TPL core limits 41,41,40,40,39,38
Mhz hit 4000mhz stable, which is crazy, never seen it touch 4000. That's a first with Cinebench I suppose.
-218,8 core
-125.0 cache

2616 score with those settings.
Not certain if the TS log was correct but if you notice anything tell me and I'll run the testing again.


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## unclewebb (Mar 23, 2021)

AetherZeta said:


> Not certain if the TS log was correct


What is not correct? The log file is showing that your CPU is power limit throttling (PL1) because the turbo power limit is set to 45W. The 8750H can go up to 70W when they are properly cooled. If you have poor cooling then you are forced to slow them down so they do not get too hot. With proper cooling and no power limits, the 8750H should score over 3000 points in Cinebench R20.



AetherZeta said:


> MHz hit 4000mhz stable, which is crazy


When you eliminate useless background tasks, your CPU can spend more time using the higher multipliers. When 6 cores are active, the maximum speed for an 8750H is about 3891 MHz (39.00 X 99.767 MHz) I would bump your 6 core turbo ratio back up to 39 and you can probably increase your PL1 turbo power limit up to 50W.

Your laptop might be set internally to a hard long term limit of 45W. If that is the case, increasing PL1 in ThrottleStop will not make any difference. Run another log file and look to see if you get PL1 throttling at 45W or 50W if you want to test this.

Your laptop looks like it is performing as it should be considering the cooling you have available. Some Noctua NT-H2 might help temps a few degrees. Never sure what repair shops are using for thermal paste. Usually something out of a big bucket that is cheap and easy to slap on.

Play some games. Hopefully your laptop is much more stable than it was. Too much cache offset kills stability.


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## AetherZeta (Mar 23, 2021)

With the log I meant I could've screwed it up but eh, ignore that, just being dumb.

Raised 6th core to 39, PL1 up to 50, PL2 on 60 and time at 10secs
-219.7 core , -129.9 cache
Temps went around 90, only touched 91 for a milisecond, then lowered to 88 by the end of the test, sometimes lowering to 60 then back up to 88. That showed on my temp reading programs (Notebook Fan Control, Core Temp), but the log shows 92-94 or so, PL1 at 49.9 but it starts lowering to 45 after some time before stopping, not sure why.
At least Cine score went up to 2757. 
As long as I don't get random shutdowns while I'm playing I'm fine with a hot PC tbh.

Searched for that Noctua NT-H2, not available where I live. 
Although I saw Kryonaut being suggested. I applied Arctic MX5 before sending it to repair but it didn't work properly. Not sure what they used or if they cleaned off the MX5 but so far it's working it seems. All the testing and checking this forum so far PC hasn't shutdown or suffered crashing or anything overheat related so that's good too.
Anyway, I'll keep testing and I'll see if it turns off while I work on my stuff, or when I play. 
Anything I should change tell me and I'll fix it up.

Although if Noctua NT-H2 works on this I'll consider shipping it from overseas.

Also, nevermind, Arctic MX-4, not MX5


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## unclewebb (Mar 23, 2021)

There are multiple sets of turbo power limits that are duplicated. Your log confirms that you computer enforces a long term 45W limit for PL1. This is common. ThrottleStop lets you run at 50W for a little while but then HP says, that is enough. Party is over. Back to 45W for the long term. That sucks but it is what it is.



AetherZeta said:


> Core Temp


If ThrottleStop can report your CPU and GPU temperatures accurately, what do you need Core Temp for?



AetherZeta said:


> the log shows 92-94


That confirms that ThrottleStop is more accurate. It runs at a higher Windows priority level so it has better access to the temperature sensors compared to some other monitoring programs.

If Core Temp and ThrottleStop both ask the CPU at the same time for some temperature data, the CPU responds, yes Mr. ThrottleStop, we have your table ready. What can we do for you today? Mean while, Core Temp is left waiting for the next available table. When the restaurant is busy or when the CPU is busy, you can depend on ThrottleStop to get preferred access to the temperature sensors. If you really need to record the peak temperature, turn on the ThrottleStop More Data option and it will sample the sensors more frequently.  

Post an update in a day or two if there are any random crashes. That should be a lot better.


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## AetherZeta (Mar 23, 2021)

I'll test on a longer range. Changed 50 back to 45. Not sure if anything else has to be changed, I'll see. Report back if I get anything strange. So far it's been pretty decent, I think splitting the undervolt differently between core and cache helped. Actually strange considering I saw some videos suggesting otherwise, but at least since the other option didn't do jack, so way better to try this.

One more thing, sorry to bother you this much lol
But I'm currently getting lag in Chrome after I changed IccMax in CPU Core to 255.75 because I was getting yellow PL1, and PL2 and EDP Other flickering on red on TS Bench
C0% feels oddly at 14% and fluctuating only with chrome on

Threw TPL back to 45-70-28 as well

Disabled XtuService and XtuOcDriverService in case they could cause compatibility issues
rn i have huge input lag, gonna try setting 255.75 iccmax on cache as well

Ok yeah that solved it. Not completely but I feel way less input lag with it put on both core and cache. Although not sure what's the cause of it.
Although iccmax being at 255.75 lowered TS bench points from 17 to 15 and now temp's crazy fluctuant
not gonna update this comment further so it doesn't seem like i'm bumping too much or something.


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## unclewebb (Mar 23, 2021)

AetherZeta said:


> I saw some videos suggesting otherwise


Don't believe everything you see on YouTube. Any 10 year old can post a video. That does not mean that they know what they are talking about. User testing is clear. Different voltages work well on the 8750H and 9750H and lots of other CPUs too. You either get better temperatures or better performance or a little of both.



AetherZeta said:


> C0% feels oddly at 14% and fluctuating


What do you get for C0% when Chrome is closed and you are idle at the desktop? 0.5% is normal. Much higher than that and you need to find out what is running on your computer that probably does not need to be running 24/7. Autoruns is a good program to track down what apps are always starting automatically.









						Autoruns for Windows - Sysinternals
					

See what programs are configured to startup automatically when your system boots and you login.



					docs.microsoft.com
				




Bloated background tasks and Microsoft constantly notifying head office (telemetry) about what you are doing on your computer is more likely to cause input lag than your IccMax settings. Set IccMax high so it does not cause throttling.


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## AetherZeta (Mar 23, 2021)

That's very true.
C0% in Idle is around 5, now that I compare it to that 0.5 you said it sounds extremely odd lol
Currently checking stuff out but can't find the culprit, not sure if I disabled telemetry completely.
Also idle is still 58°C


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## unclewebb (Mar 23, 2021)

5.0 is 10X more stuff running in the background compared to 0.5. Use the Task Manager Details tab and use the Resource Monitor to track stuff down.


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## AetherZeta (Mar 23, 2021)

I see some appearances of "esrv_svc" and MsMpEng, not sure why they pop so often around but they could be part of the problem

Yeah so far I've been doing changes for some time but I can't find a way to keep things stable, is 55-60 on 10 C0% even normal? I have my settings on 219.7 core and 129.9 cache because anything else makes my cpu drop to 2000mhz in random intervals which I assume is thermal throttling. This makes it do the same thing but I can't think of anything else to leave it in because not certain if -150 core and -150 cache even works for my pc

Hmm, changing everything to 150 150 back again makes C0% drop
Yeah wow, switching it to 150-150, and putting tpl back to default (45-70-28) makes it run little under 88 on TS Bench and PL2 doesn't even show it's face around
Nevermind. 99°C on Cinebench 2400 score, insta-throttle back down into 3,5mhz lol

To end this ranting, kept -219.7 core, -129,9 cache
iccmax's on 255.75 for each
tpl 45 65 10 (60 makes PL2 in yellow show up), still heats up to 89 in just TS Bench and fluctuates to 2500mhz randomly every once in a while during the bench.
ran cinebench test, 2645, reaches 92°C and it goes down to 85°C with it locking on 3,4 - 3,5mhz and 45w TPL. There's definitely some lock pulling up to lock it to 45W, and I'm not sure what it is.
Ran another bench with "disable and lock turbo power limits off". Seems slightly different, but when it's at 60W it goes down to 35W in random intervals now.
What's going on?... It's like it continuously twarts the cpu back into standard 35-45W with any higher turbo (past 45), it's almost like that's the heat issues's root, could that be it?


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## unclewebb (Mar 24, 2021)

AetherZeta said:


> I assume is thermal throttling


Why do you assume that? There is no evidence in the log file that indicates thermal throttling. None. Most throttling in laptops is power limit related. 



AetherZeta said:


> makes my cpu drop to 2000mhz


The log file does not show that either. Are you seeing this number on screen when playing a game? Some monitoring software does not follow the Intel recommended monitoring method and does not accurately track the CPU multiplier, especially when a CPU is not fully loaded. ThrottleStop does not have that issue so go by what the log file is telling you.



AetherZeta said:


> There's definitely some lock pulling up to lock it to 45W, and I'm not sure what it is.


Your laptop uses an embedded controller (EC) which can randomly lock your CPU to 45W any time it wants to for any reason. The EC checks various temperature and power sensors and maybe the position of the moon. After gathering all of this data, it flips a coin and decides whether to throttle you down to 45W or not. It can also throttle you down way lower than this for any reason at any time. There is no way to control this. You have to be happy with whatever it gives you. 



AetherZeta said:


> it goes down to 35W in random intervals


I do not see that in the log file. I see lots of PL1 power limit throttling right at 45W. Intel gave the 8750H a 45W TDP rating and long term, HP has decided to limit it to 45W. Your CPU is working as designed. Some laptops do not have restrictive power limits. You can run them way beyond the 45W TDP limit indefinitely as long as they do not overheat. You are not so lucky. You have to live with this 45W limit or you have to buy a different laptop. This limit is not going to go away. You have to learn to work within this limit.



AetherZeta said:


> disable and lock turbo power limits off


After you clear the Disable and Lock box, you need to completely shut down your computer before the register that is locked becomes unlocked. You seem to be randomly changing everything all at once. It is very difficult to get consistent results when you test like this. You have to watch Limit Reasons or closely watch the log file during any test. When comparing your results, you have to make sure that it is a fair comparison before you can conclude anything. You also need to test multiple times to confirm any improvement. If you run Cinebench back to back, the second time you run the program your results are likely to be less because of your power limit throttling issues. Even at 45W, your CPU is constantly power limit throttling. Results will vary depending on whether your CPU power limits for half of a benchmark test or power limits for the whole test. Laptops make for terrible test beds. 



AetherZeta said:


> What's going on?


The harder you push your laptop, the more it is going to try to throttle. If you run your CPU at 60W, that is going to use up the turbo boost budget faster compared to running it at 50W. You are likely to see power limit throttling sooner. The amount of time at 50W will decrease faster. You will get locked to 45W sooner. 

Now you need to slowly adjust everything and find out what works best for you. Don't go crazy trying to get the perfect settings. Your laptop is definitely not suitable for someone with OCD but it would keep them busy.

Run a new log file while gaming. Overall your CPU performance looks consistent.


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## AetherZeta (Mar 24, 2021)

Haha well ya got me at OCD. 
It's true, I am quite desperate, I'll go at a slower pace, for now I'll try to go by without much fiddling anyway since it seems it's not incredibly hot for it to shutdown, at least so far it hasn't.


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## unclewebb (Mar 24, 2021)

AetherZeta said:


> OCD


You are not completely crazy, yet. I went back and looked at your log file some more and I did see a couple of random drops to 35W for a second for no particular reason. Not sure what you were doing at that exact second so more testing needs to be done. I need to keep you busy!


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## AetherZeta (Mar 24, 2021)

I remember it just happening. Like nothing specific, just instead of limiting to 45 it did 35 instead. Still does it. Goes max 57-59W, sometimes goes past up to 63W, never seen higher, then usually sometimes drops to 35-45

Okay, Mr. OCD is back.  Starting to get really pissed off, genuinely considering prostitution for a new PC rn (jk)
_Jokes aside,_ can't figure anything out anymore, PC runs incredibly hot still, no matter what tweak I make I'm still stuck at 56°C idle, even when using a low setting of 22 26 1, and all cores on 34? It's just.. strange. Considering botching the service's work on the thermal paste and reapplying by myself again with Arctic MX-4.
Logs don't show anything too different when on regular settings. Typical PL1-PL2 when switching from default, raising both 1 and 2 to 60 stops the erroring though but the heat's of course, pretty biggo. Doesn't go past 59.9w when I try higher though, assuming that's a hardware/bios limitation from hp by now. 60/60 is pretty much the same
I feel like if I try to use a underclocked setting it's just gonna start shutting the PC down again like before, what's the cause for a PC turning off for TPL limiting anyway? Not enough juice or something? or HP just going "bye bye" and kicking the pc shut? Tried disabling hibernation settings, changing things in registry, but nothing seems different.


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## AetherZeta (Mar 25, 2021)

What thermal paste to use for my pc?
Decided on changing the thermal paste properly and cautiously along with a really meticulous cleaning to assure it hits the nail in the coffin.


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## unclewebb (Mar 25, 2021)

Noctua NT-H2 is popular and seems to last long term in laptops. Some popular pastes that work well in desktop situations with their integrated heat spreader do not work well long term in laptops. It really depends on what is available where you live. Do some Google searching. Try to find some laptop specific reviews, not desktop reviews.


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## AetherZeta (Mar 28, 2021)

So, here to update that, sadly, I'm still not 100% sure what the problem truly is. 
I'll simply wait until I'm able to buy a new rig. For now I'm keeping the Undervolt at a stable -125.
Switched paste to MX-4 because it's what I had available. Ratio limits at 34, and turbo at 24 24 28 
Sad to have to limit the cpu but it is what it is

Made some updates on drivers though just now, Intel Dynamic Thermal Framework was at 2016, used some Dell Drivers and now it's a new 2018 driver (new to me because the omen 15 i have is 2018.) Maybe it will help. 
Thanks for your help though @unclewebb 
Appreciate your dedication, and if you have a donation link drop it somewhere, idk haha


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