# 120hz Monitor Upgrade



## xenocide (Jul 31, 2011)

So, I have been heavily considering upgrading from my mediocre Dell LCD to a brand new monitor.  I have had 2 options;  Get a newer better 24' LED backlit LCD for $160-200, or spring for a 24' 120hz LCD for $330.  I'm just wondering if anyone with one of these can justify the huge price premium, and if there are any more cost-efficient 120hz monitors on the horizon.

I was considering this;
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0035KC3R0/?tag=tec06d-20

It has all the features I want, and seems to be reasonably priced for a 120hz monitor, thoughts?


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## Conti027 (Jul 31, 2011)

I don't think ATI supports 120hz so it would just run at 60hz.. Could be wrong tho
I'd say just get a LED (Asus VE248H Black 24" 1920X1080 2ms Full HD HDMI L...)
I have the LCD of that and I like it a lot


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## n-ster (Jul 31, 2011)

you don't have a GPU to take advantage of 120 Hz, try getting an IPS screen instead. There are quite a few out/coming out at reasonable prices.


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## Widjaja (Jul 31, 2011)

@nster is there noticeable ghosting with IPS screens?
I have only see 5ms ones.


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## Wile E (Jul 31, 2011)

Widjaja said:


> @nster is there noticeable ghosting with IPS screens?
> I have only see 5ms ones.



Not on most of them. Check reviews before buying.

And quit actually paying attention to manufacturer response time ratings. They are all bullshit.


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## xenocide (Jul 31, 2011)

How does AMD not support 120hz?  That sounds completely ridiculous.  I had heard they didn't support 3D, but you're also saying to get a monitor to run at the advertised refresh rate I would need to get a different GPU?

EDIT:  http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-hd3d/pages/supported-hardware.aspx
AMD claims it supports full 3D, and 120hz is required for said technology is it not?  I also read on various other sites 120hz support was added with 10.5 or 10.6, so I'm not sure it not longer supports it...


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## n-ster (Jul 31, 2011)

xenocide said:


> How does AMD not support 120hz?  That sounds completely ridiculous.  I had heard they didn't support 3D, but you're also saying to get a monitor to run at the advertised refresh rate I would need to get a different GPU?
> 
> EDIT:  http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/amd-hd3d/pages/supported-hardware.aspx
> AMD claims it supports full 3D, and 120hz is required for said technology is it not?  I also read on various other sites 120hz support was added with 10.5 or 10.6, so I'm not sure it not longer supports it...



AFAIK I think they do, regardless, you won't see a difference unless you can run the game you play at 80 fps +, and the difference is only small to moderate, while an IPS screen you'll see a nice difference (moderate at least). As Wile E said, check the reviews as that is what will tell you if ghosting will be a problem or not. I've seen 8ms GTG screens have absolutely NO problem with ghosting, while I saw a few 5ms screens have ghosting problems


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## xenocide (Jul 31, 2011)

n-ster said:


> AFAIK I think they do, regardless, you won't see a difference unless you can run the game you play at 80 fps +, and the difference is only small to moderate, while an IPS screen you'll see a nice difference (moderate at least). As Wile E said, check the reviews as that is what will tell you if ghosting will be a problem or not. I've seen 8ms GTG screens have absolutely NO problem with ghosting, while I saw a few 5ms screens have ghosting problems



I am more interested in the overall smoothness it offers.  My current monitor barely has any ghosting, hell, any decent $150 LCD barely does.  But not all of them have the smoothness of 120hz :3


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## n-ster (Jul 31, 2011)

again, only non-demanding games will you see any difference. The IMAGE QUALITY of the IPS is better, which in my opinion, beats the extra smoothness you get on old games that you get 60 fps constant anyways. If you had a 6990 or 2x 6950s, I could see how that would change something, but with a 5850, you won't see enough difference.


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## dnottis (Jul 31, 2011)

xenocide said:


> I am more interested in the overall smoothness it offers.  My current monitor barely has any ghosting, hell, any decent $150 LCD barely does.  But not all of them have the smoothness of 120hz :3



120hz is the best thing evar.  I'd say you have to use one to "get" it.  Even the mouse on the desktop is a ton smoother - but again without using one it's hard to convince or justify it.  I dont want to get into an argument with anyone like the last thread.. but I went 120hz LCD Viewsonic and I'll never have a 60hz screen again.


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## n-ster (Jul 31, 2011)

I've tested a few 120 Hz monitors but while the difference is noticeable, it isn't all that exciting to me... Perhaps I only saw the older 120 Hz monitors or something?

I find the extra money better spent on either IPS or a GPU upgrade (ie: 2nd 5850 or sell current GPU for a better one ie 6950)


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## Wile E (Aug 1, 2011)

dnottis said:


> 120hz is the best thing evar.  I'd say you have to use one to "get" it.  Even the mouse on the desktop is a ton smoother - but again without using one it's hard to convince or justify it.  I dont want to get into an argument with anyone like the last thread.. but I went 120hz LCD Viewsonic and I'll never have a 60hz screen again.



I compared 120hz directly to my IPS panel. I chose IPS. The majority of 120Hz monitors are Tn-Film , and look like crap compared to a good panel. I'll take better looks over the "smoothness" offered by 120hz any day.


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## xenocide (Aug 1, 2011)

Wile E said:


> I compared 120hz directly to my IPS panel. I chose IPS. The majority of 120Hz monitors are Tn-Film , and look like crap compared to a good panel. I'll take better looks over the "smoothness" offered by 120hz any day.



I ordered the monitor I linked this morning.  I play Counter-Strike rather competatively, as well as a host of other FPS games, so a 120hz monitor is justified.  With Counter-Strike especially, it's much easier to control recoil on 100hz+.  When I went to a LAN center that had CRT's and one that had a whole bunch of 2233rz's, the difference was amazing.


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## brandonwh64 (Aug 1, 2011)

I doubt you will play better with a higher hz monitor. this is coming from a OG cs player. FPS is not even an issue anymore as long as fps is set to FPS_max 101 and Vsync off


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## xenocide (Aug 1, 2011)

brandonwh64 said:


> I doubt you will play better with a higher hz monitor. this is coming from a OG cs player. FPS is not even an issue anymore as long as fps is set to FPS_max 101 and Vsync off



I don't anticipate it will make me play much better, but historically I have played better on monitors that are similar to this one.  I've played since Beta, always did better with 100hz+.  I'm just getting it because I've always wanted it, and it cannot be worse than the 23' 1680x1050 8ms 60hz monitor I have to use now.


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## brandonwh64 (Aug 1, 2011)

Im currently rocking this panel and im loving it. Even tho its a TN, It has VERY CRISP detail and textures. WAY better than my old 20 inch dell.


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## qubit (Aug 1, 2011)

Yes, a 120Hz monitor definitely gives you benefits in smoothness on the desktop and in games, just as dnottis has said below:



dnottis said:


> 120hz is the best thing evar.  I'd say you have to use one to "get" it.  Even the mouse on the desktop is a ton smoother - but again without using one it's hard to convince or justify it.  I dont want to get into an argument with anyone like the last thread.. but I went 120hz LCD Viewsonic and I'll never have a 60hz screen again.



I had a Samsung 2233RZ 120Hz monitor for a while (until it got stolen) and I did like the 120Hz refresh very much. Less artefacting and twice the temporal resolution. I got it as part of a 3D Vision bundle, with the glasses, which I still have.

If you use nvidia's 3D Vision on it, then you get all the sharpness of an LCD, with the zero movement ghosting of a CRT - the effect is amazing! And of course the 3D effect.

I would steer clear of Acer monitors though. I bought the later GD245HQ which has good reviews all round, yet it was crap: it was the only LCD monitor I've ever seen which had a "blurred" picture. This is actually some kind of edge fringing effect and is a design fault with the monitor that cannot be tuned out with the controls. I returned it to the shop and the demo one was identical, so I got a refund.

In the end I went for the Iiyama monitor in my specs, because I wanted 1920x1200 resolution and the market for 120Hz monitors is quite limited at the moment. I do miss that 120Hz refresh, though.

Oh and of course AMD cards can do 120Hz. Anyone that says otherwise is a numpty.


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## mastrdrver (Aug 1, 2011)

Wile E said:


> I compared 120hz directly to my IPS panel. I chose IPS. The majority of 120Hz monitors are Tn-Film , and look like crap compared to a good panel. I'll take better looks over the "smoothness" offered by 120hz any day.



This is opposite everything I've seen from people who play games. Everyone always saws to go with the 120hz monitor over something like an IPS panel.

So now I'm confused. Was trying to get the funds to do 3x 120hz screens. Now I'm not so sure.


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## Wile E (Aug 1, 2011)

120hz are faster. IPS looks better. Pick one.


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## Black Haru (Aug 1, 2011)

Wile E said:


> 120hz are faster. IPS looks better. Pick one.



how much would it cost to have both?


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## xenocide (Aug 1, 2011)

Black Haru said:


> how much would it cost to have both?



If I remember correctly they cost about the same.  I know Dell sells some IPS Panels for around $300-400, and that's also the price range for most 120hz monitors.  Unless you mean an IPS Panel that is capable of 120hz, which doesn't exist to my knowledge ;p


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## AsRock (Aug 1, 2011)

qubit said:


> Yes, a 120Hz monitor definitely gives you benefits in smoothness on the desktop and in games, just as dnottis has said below:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't thaat depend on what resolution you use ?..  Last  time i noticed the max was 240Hz but thaat depends on what resolution you were using.

All so not 100% it all so depends on what connection your using too ( HDMI \ DVI )


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## Wile E (Aug 1, 2011)

xenocide said:


> If I remember correctly they cost about the same.  I know Dell sells some IPS Panels for around $300-400, and that's also the price range for most 120hz monitors.  Unless you mean an IPS Panel that is capable of 120hz, which doesn't exist to my knowledge ;p



Supposedly Mitsubishi is releasing one, but I haven't seen any word on price, or if it actually made it to market yet.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/21/mitsubishis-latest-23-inch-diamondcrysta-fulfills-your-matte-i/


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## xenocide (Aug 1, 2011)

AsRock said:


> Don't thaat depend on what resolution you use ?..  Last  time i noticed the max was 240Hz but thaat depends on what resolution you were using.
> 
> All so not 100% it all so depends on what connection your using too ( HDMI \ DVI )



You cannot do 120hz over HDMI as it lacks the bandwidth.  Dual-Link DVI is the only way I believe.  It really depends on resolution, but I think GPU and Monitor manufacturers just agreed to stick to Dual-Link DVI rather than hold out for another standard.


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## Wile E (Aug 1, 2011)

Displayport has the bandwidth I thought.


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## xenocide (Aug 1, 2011)

Wile E said:


> Displayport has the bandwidth I thought.



Just looked it up, as of December 2009 with the release of DP1.2 it does offer more than enough bandwidth, but I think AMD\Nvidia have restricted it to Dual-Link DVI only for some odd reason.  It might work, I honestly only know I've read HDMI didn't have enough, and Dual-Link DVI was the only supported standard for Stereoscopic 3D\120hz.


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## Wile E (Aug 1, 2011)

Yeah, HDMI uses the single link DVI standard for it's video. I find it odd that it's not supported by diplaylink tho, as plenty of cards have the option, especially from ATI.


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## ShogoXT (Aug 1, 2011)

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Asus-ML239H/16533422

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asus_ml239h.htm

I have linked this before. Similar to other E-IPS panels out there, except few actually have RTC on them. This one and the Dell U2311 I think do. I dont recommend buying a monitor from anyway that doesnt have a good return policy. So newegg is bad for monitors. Amazon (direct), tigerdirect are good examples. Walmart seems to have the best price in this case. 

Turn the brightness down, contrast up a few points, then turn trace free to 40. Monitor is good to go and looks great.


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## n-ster (Aug 1, 2011)

ShogoXT said:


> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Asus-ML239H/16533422
> 
> http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asus_ml239h.htm
> 
> ...




nice price! It seems 199.99$ is the normal price for this one. I wonder why it is so cheap? IPS + LED


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## qubit (Aug 1, 2011)

AsRock said:


> Don't thaat depend on what resolution you use ?..  Last  time i noticed the max was 240Hz but thaat depends on what resolution you were using.
> 
> All so not 100% it all so depends on what connection your using too ( HDMI \ DVI )



No, that's not what I'm saying. Someone earlier had been misinformed that AMD cards couldn't do 120Hz, no qualifier. I'm just setting the record straight that they can. In this sense, there's no difference between the capabilities of nvidia and AMD graphics cards.

Obviously, this refresh rate cannot be maintained past a certain resolution and it depends on the connection used. But at a standard 1920x1080 over dual link DVI, all graphics cards will manage it, except perhaps some very low end ones, like my 8400GS 256MB PCI (yes, PCI, not PCI-E  )


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