# Just upgraded to a Radeon 7950, looking to complete the package



## Vertrucio (Feb 17, 2013)

<<< System specs in my profile.

I just got a 7950 but I'm a little underwhelmed at the performance on high detail. I've recently developed an appreciation for playing games at high framerates, and I'm looking to maximize FPS while still keeping the details on high.

I'm wondering if I'm being CPU limited, or if the old memory I'm using also is an issue.

One game I've been playing is Planetside 2, which is heavily CPU limited.

Over the coming year, I'll be playing Company of Heroes 2, Crysis 3, Bioshock Infinite, Metro, etc.. Basically all the usual hit games this year.

I also play games at 1920x1200.

Would upgrading my CPU help? This would mean I'd also be picking up a new motherboard and memory to go with it. Which is also nice since this means I can finally make use of the higher rated SATA on my drives, and USB 3.0 for transferring all these large animation files between work and home.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Feb 17, 2013)

if your running on a Phenom II 965 then yes you are bottlenecked in some titles in fact in games like

Shogun 2
Skyrim with mods and ini edits
Bad Company 2
Star Craft 2
etc etc that CPU will bottleneck the 7950

a good example the The Witcher 2 Assassins of Kings with a GTX 590 (a bit faster than an overclocked 7950)

a Phenom II averages frame rates in the 50s 
a 2500k averages frame rates in the high 70s to low 80s


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## cadaveca (Feb 17, 2013)

Vertrucio said:


> <<< System specs in my profile.
> 
> I just got a 7950 but I'm a little underwhelmed at the performance on high detail. I've recently developed an appreciation for playing games at high framerates, and I'm looking to maximize FPS while still keeping the details on high.
> 
> ...



Moving to Intel i7 2600k will net around approx. 20% performance increase, average. With overclocking, an even bigger boost is possible from a 965 BE CPU.


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## Phusius (Feb 17, 2013)

Since your going to be buying a new motherboard anyway, you might as well just get Ivy Bridge.

MSI Z77A-G41 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com

and
Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turb...


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## Vertrucio (Feb 17, 2013)

Thanks for all the quick responses!

Looks like I'm going Intel this generation.

i7 or i5?

I also make artwork, and do 3D modeling and rendering on this desktop system. So any hardware that can run that well is a definite plus.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Feb 17, 2013)

if your doing SERIOUS 3D modeling get the i7

if your just making game mods or doing small time stuff get the i5.

Also dont get the G41 msi board far better boards exist in roughly the same price range.


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## Phusius (Feb 17, 2013)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> if your doing SERIOUS 3D modeling get the i7
> 
> if your just making game mods or doing small time stuff get the i5.
> 
> Also dont get the G41 msi board far better boards exist in roughly the same price range.



It was the cheapest board on Newegg, and I wasn't sure what his budget was.  Yeah, get a better board.


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## Vertrucio (Feb 17, 2013)

Hm...

There are a lot of motherboards. Hate to ask for you guys to do everything for me, but I've been way out of the loop on tech.

Can someone recommend a good ATX motherboard for an i7 ivy bridge? I took a look through the motherboard reviews and it seemed like a lot of the highly rated boards had features I don't need. I have a high budget, but would prefer not to spend money on things I won't use.

I don't overclock anything in my system, so I don't need any features related to that. I don't think I ever will overclock stuff since I don't have the time to learn to do it properly (and I need stability while working on this rig).

However, I do need USB 3.0, SATA 3, RAID if possible, and preferably built in WIFI. Good on board sound would be nice since I'm tired of creative's crappy drivers.


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## Jstn7477 (Feb 17, 2013)

If you're looking for a good onboard audio codec for your next motherboard, try looking for boards that have the Realtek ALC 898 codec, as it seems noticeably better than the old ALC 892 on my last board. Should be common on boards around the $130 range or so.


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## Phusius (Feb 17, 2013)

ASUS Maximus V FORMULA Extended ATX Intel Motherbo...

if you can afford it, that is a pretty sexy mobo there with nice onboard audio

or just buy a decent cheaper mobo, and an Asus Sound Card.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Feb 17, 2013)

BIOSTAR Hi-Fi Z77X 5.x ATX Intel Motherboard - New...

Biostar Z77 Hi Fi $149

TPU did a review on it read it.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 19, 2013)

$400 will you get i7 3770k + Z77+ DDR3 RAM at micro center.

I use a Z77 extreme4. There's the Asrock Z77 Extreme6 now and it's a quality piece also for slightly more. My experience with the ASrock board has been pretty stable and OC well. Set up was easy and EUFI was great. The difference in performance between this board and a high end board that cost 2-3x the price is very small. 

I hear good things about ASUS Z77 too but Asrock is made by ASUS so I don't think there's going to be much difference(besides price) if any.


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## cadaveca (Feb 19, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> I hear good things about ASUS Z77 too but Asrock is made by ASUS so I don't think there's going to be much difference(besides price) if any.



ASUS and ASRock are two separate companies, with separate production lines. ASRock is manufactured by Pegatron, ASUS by ECS and others. They had ties and shared Pegatron for production, but that is no longer true.

http://www.techpowerup.com/164412/A...f-its-Motherboards-Notebooks-by-Pegatron.html


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## tokyoduong (Feb 19, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> ASUS and ASRock are two separate companies, with separate production lines. ASRock is manufactured by Pegatron, ASUS by ECS and others. They had ties and shared Pegatron for production, but that is no longer true.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/164412/A...f-its-Motherboards-Notebooks-by-Pegatron.html



Good catch, I did not know that split. 

IMO and experience, having boards from both brands in the past, the quality difference is negligible. I have not had any problems with either brands. Looking through reviews, they are pretty much equal in performance. Picking either brand is good but I saved $25 with the Asrock.
I would stay away from BIOSTAR though(also experience).


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## cadaveca (Feb 19, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> Good catch, I did not know that split.
> 
> IMO and experience, having boards from both brands in the past, the quality difference is negligible. I have not had any problems with either brands. Looking through reviews, they are pretty much equal in performance. Picking either brand is good but I saved $25 with the Asrock.
> I would stay away from BIOSTAR though(also experience).



Yes, new change, hasn't really been a year yet. ASUS and ASRock have always been close, but never 100% together, either.

I've had no issues with Biostar high-end products at all. Likewise ASRock. ASUS has been my personal favorite for years. Biostar is my #1 budget recommendation, based on usage of the user.

Many users have issues with budget ASRock boards, but for a budget board, that is no surprise. Frankly, all companies are doing really really well, and the sole difference is included features, power consumption, and memory overclocking. Timely BIOS updates are another factor, as well. 


I do tend to play with a new board every week, however, so I have a slightly different experience than most.


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## Kaynar (Feb 19, 2013)

Indeed Asus and ASRock are totally different now. Get a 3570k + z77 mobo with some 1600mhz cas9 ram and you are good to go. Its pretty easy to find a relatively good z77 mobo for a low price (ASRock is usually that type of product) with minimal features that will cover your needs and will (if you want) overclock to 4+ghz without issue. Just make sure you buy the proper cooler if you're into overclocking too.

Dont get i7 for gaming cause its 0% improvement and simply more expensive. Also if you wont overclock for sure, you might want to buy an i5 3450 or something like that.

So:
-The least expensive recommendation:
CPU Intel Core i5-3470 Ivy Bridge 3.2GHz (3.6GHz Turbo...
Cooler COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatp... or equivalent around $30
Mobo BIOSTAR TZ77B ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com
RAM G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 ...

-The performance recommendation:
CPU i5 3570K overclocked to over 4.4ghz or i7 3770k if you want the HT for CAD
Cooler: $50+ air cooler or Corsair H60 closed WC loop or equivalent from thermaltake etc
Mobo: MSI Z77 MPower or Gigabyte Z77 UD5 or ASRock Extreme4
RAM: I think the above ram was actually a good deal, but you might want to get 2000mhz CAS9 for an overclocked cpu

Both the cheaper system the the expensive one will have small differences in performance. The real deal is to overclock the unlocked i5 or i7. If you won't overclock, my opinion is that its a waste of money to buy expensive components and keep them at stock values. You might also want to check 3-4 different websites to find any good discounts etc.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 19, 2013)

cadaveca said:


> Yes, new change, hasn't really been a year yet. ASUS and ASRock have always been close, but never 100% together, either.
> 
> I've had no issues with Biostar high-end products at all. Likewise ASRock. ASUS has been my personal favorite for years. Biostar is my #1 budget recommendation, based on usage of the user.
> 
> ...



Yes, the worst thing about BIOSTAR board was their BIOS. It always seems to be incomplete, and by the time they release an adequate update I have already given up on it.
That was back during my AMD phenom days though(I think it was an issue with ACC and some promised features). 

Their boards are good for the price but it's not worth my time waiting for a proper BIOS that should've been ready when it's on sale. 

Like I said, The extreme4/6 are generally cheaper than the Asus equivalent and have about the same quality. The reviews are about the same overall from both sites and users. Also, IDK about dealing with warranties from these manufacturers as I paid $8 for a 2 year warranty with Microcenter. They don't ask questions and always replaced it immediately. It's always been a walk in and walk out experience for me.



Kaynar said:


> Indeed Asus and ASRock are totally different now. Get a 3570k + z77 mobo with some 1600mhz cas9 ram and you are good to go. Its pretty easy to find a relatively good z77 mobo for a low price (ASRock is usually that type of product) with minimal features that will cover your needs and will (if you want) overclock to 4+ghz without issue. Just make sure you buy the proper cooler if you're into overclocking too.
> 
> Dont get i7 for gaming cause its 0% improvement and simply more expensive. Also if you wont overclock for sure, you might want to buy an i5 3450 or something like that.
> 
> ...



That 212 cooler is huge!! I would get the H60 unless you have the space. I have this fear of coolers ripping off the board because of its weight lol. I bought that initially but I had to return it because of its size. Besides that, it's a great cooler.

Becareful with the H60 as the pump is powered by the pins for the fan. Manually set it to max or you'll have wild temperatures.


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## erocker (Feb 19, 2013)

I think before you spend any money, you should try overclocking the snot out of that 965 and see if you like the results.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 19, 2013)

The M4A79 is a great board so it should OC nicely.


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## Vertrucio (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks again.

I'll give overclocking a try, but I'll probably wait until I have the parts ready to buy.

Now to do some searching on how to overclock safely.

EDIT: After trying some overclocking, I only managed to get it to 3.80ghz, anything higher and it just gets unstable. There was a small FPS increase in Planetside 2, so I think that game is just crappily optimized. Otherwise, everything else seems to run fine.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 20, 2013)

Vertrucio said:


> Thanks again.
> 
> I'll give overclocking a try, but I'll probably wait until I have the parts ready to buy.
> 
> ...



did you try bumping voltage? mess with HT and memory settings? It's pretty common for people to get 4 ghz+ out of that chip


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## Vertrucio (Feb 24, 2013)

I bumped up the voltage, but didn't try messing with HT or memory settings, partly because I have some generic memory that I don't remember all the stats for.

Looking at CPU-Z and other info online, I seem to have the C2 variant that really only overclocks to 3.8ghz, anything higher requires a lot of voltage. Keeping it at that speed eventually caused a BSOD during an extended crysis 3 session.

I'm not really upset at this since I bought this 965 as part of a really, really cheap bundle a long time ago.

However, your comment about buying expensive parts and not overclocking also made me realize that I am wasting my money. These companies are making these parts with overclocking in mind, likely building in some "standard" level of overclockability. Not using that potential is a waste, especially when I want the performance that comes from it, so I'll be making sure to look into overclocking for any parts I buy.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 25, 2013)

Vertrucio said:


> I bumped up the voltage, but didn't try messing with HT or memory settings, partly because I have some generic memory that I don't remember all the stats for.
> 
> Looking at CPU-Z and other info online, I seem to have the C2 variant that really only overclocks to 3.8ghz, anything higher requires a lot of voltage. Keeping it at that speed eventually caused a BSOD during an extended crysis 3 session.
> 
> ...



Remember what you're giving up in reliability when you OC. If you plan on using these parts for more than 2 years then I would suggest that you don't OC or a very mild OC. There will be people that will tell they've ran *insert cpu you oc the snot out of here* to 5.8ghz for 8 years long 24/7 in an open chassis outside in the rain and snow. But the point is that your chances of having a failure is greatly increased. There are no standard level of OC really. It's mostly marketing and voids warranty. Of course an expensive board with better parts will OC better but a diference in 200mhz isn't going to do much for you when it's 4.8 ghz vs 5 ghz. Think about that when you choose between a $100 and a $150 board. 
The most important thing about any PC build is stability and reliability. Aim for that first and OC should only be a bonus/fun.


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## BarbaricSoul (Feb 25, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> Remember what you're giving up in reliability when you OC. If you plan on using these parts for more than 2 years then I would suggest that you don't OC or a very mild OC.



That is not true advise. You can safely OC your CPU without shortening it's life or causing instability issues. It will depend on your motherboard and cpu as to how far you can OC, but as long as you stay within the thermal and voltage limits for your hardware, OC'ing WILL NOT HURT IT. Keep your CPU voltage below 1.4 volts and keep your CPU temp below 80'c at full load, 70'c for everyday use, and your hardware will be just fine. Go beyond those limits, and you will start to hurt your hardware.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 25, 2013)

BarbaricSoul said:


> That is not true advise. You can safely OC your CPU without shortening it's life or causing instability issues. It will depend on your motherboard and cpu as to how far you can OC, but as long as you stay within the thermal and voltage limits for your hardware, OC'ing WILL NOT HURT IT. Keep your CPU voltage below 1.4 volts and keep your CPU temp below 80'c at full load, 70'c for everyday use, and your hardware will be just fine. Go beyond those limits, and you will start to hurt your hardware.



Here we go, you are full of bias. There is no way you can ever tell me that OC will not decrease reliability. Any engineer will tell you that. That is also the reason why they bin CPUs/GPUs/etc... and clock them differently to achieve the same general rated life expectancy. Unless you want to tell me binning is a marketing stunt?

Just because OC worked out for you doesn't mean it worked out for everyone. In fact, there's people posting about it in the forums. Let's not ignore the fact that most OCers don't really complain when it fails because that is an expected risk. So you will not hear or see anything when someone OC and their hardware failed over time. It simply means an upgrade opportunity for those individuals. Normally, you hear more people boast about successful high OC or the thing lasted X years because it is something impressive to talk about rather than a failure.

I have built and OC a lot of computers. I also kept them for years and pass them on to relatives and families after I'm done with them. So far, most OC'ed computers always have a failure in less than 3(mostly around the 2 year mark). While most computers i kept at stock speeds stayed reliable for well over 3 years before problems creep up. I don't like to pay extra for a motherboard and cooler to OC because I can just put that money towards a hgher clocked/better CPU and keep my reliability. My experience and statistics of nearly 30 computers built over 10 years is probably more accurate than your opinion.

To reiterate my point, OC is not for reliability or stability. You can do it at your risk to have fun, get extra performance for free, or achievement benchmark records. If you use your PC and rely on it, it is not recommended. It also increase cost, maintenance and voids warranties.


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## BarbaricSoul (Feb 26, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> Here we go, you are full of bias. There is no way you can ever tell me that OC will not decrease reliability. Any engineer will tell you that. That is also the reason why they bin CPUs/GPUs/etc... and clock them differently to achieve the same general rated life expectancy. Unless you want to tell me binning is a marketing stunt?
> 
> Just because OC worked out for you doesn't mean it worked out for everyone. In fact, there's people posting about it in the forums. Let's not ignore the fact that most OCers don't really complain when it fails because that is an expected risk. So you will not hear or see anything when someone OC and their hardware failed over time. It simply means an upgrade opportunity for those individuals. Normally, you hear more people boast about successful high OC or the thing lasted X years because it is something impressive to talk about rather than a failure.
> 
> ...



I have built my fair share of computers as well. All the CPU's I have owned dating back to a P4 Northwood core have been OC'ed and are still working today. Personally, I've heard of alot of CPU being OC'ed within reasonable limits and running for years on end(a lot longer than the 3 year life span you refer to). Infact, except in cases of extreme OC'ing or not following the thermal or voltage limits set by the cpu's manufacturer, I have never heard of a CPU being killed by OC'ing.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 26, 2013)

BarbaricSoul said:


> I have built my fair share of computers as well. All the CPU's I have owned dating back to a P4 Northwood core have been OC'ed and are still working today. Personally, I've heard of alot of CPU being OC'ed within reasonable limits and running for years on end(a lot longer than the 3 year life span you refer to). Infact, except in cases of extreme OC'ing or not following the thermal or voltage limits set by the cpu's manufacturer, I have never heard of a CPU being killed by OC'ing.



I've from my girlfriend' mother's cousin's uncle' dog's veterinarian that his uber OC'ed i5 @ 8 ghz ran for 8 years 8 months 8 days and 8 hours too. 

Within manufacturer's thermal and voltage limits? As soon as you OC you are past at least one of the limits set by the manufacturers and voids warranty. *They voids the warranty because you have degraded the reliability of their product at your own discretion.* Thermal limits depends on your cooler anyways. As soon as you bump voltage, multiplier, etc.. your chip's reliability starts dropping. A high school kid taking a basic electronics class will tell you that. 

My OC'd athlon X2 4400 did not burn out. However the motherboard burned its AGP port after around 3 years. OC does not just stress the CPU and GPU. You are a fool if you think that. There's a lot of things that can go wrong after time and usage. Based on all my computers I've built and all the people I've helped, it is statistically accurate to say that an OC'ed system is less reliable than a stock system. How unreliable it is compared to stock depends on many variables(how high OC, parts used, PSU, etc...)


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 26, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> I've from my girlfriend' mother's cousin's uncle' dog's veterinarian that his uber OC'ed i5 @ 8 ghz ran for 8 years 8 months 8 days and 8 hours too.
> 
> Within manufacturer's thermal and voltage limits? As soon as you OC you are past at least one of the limits set by the manufacturers and voids warranty. *They voids the warranty because you have degraded the reliability of their product at your own discretion.* Thermal limits depends on your cooler anyways. As soon as you bump voltage, multiplier, etc.. your chip's reliability starts dropping. A high school kid taking a basic electronics class will tell you that.
> 
> My OC'd athlon X2 4400 did not burn out. However the motherboard burned its AGP port after around 3 years. OC does not just stress the CPU and GPU. You are a fool if you think that. There's a lot of things that can go wrong after time and usage. Based on all my computers I've built and all the people I've helped, it is statistically accurate to say that an OC'ed system is less reliable than a stock system. How unreliable it is compared to stock depends on many variables(how high OC, parts used, PSU, etc...)



I have to disagree with this. I ran a pentium D 805 for 12 months straight in iraq (summers get close to 130 deg) with no AC, OCed to 4ghz on a old Abit board with temps hitting 90's while gaming (never hit the max temp by intel). Once I got home I set it back to stock and the board, cpu, and ram still work in a friend of mines work machine. Has yet to see any degredation BUT I will say this though. Some chips like IB and SB start to degrade over time if pumped with too many volts (1.4V+)


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## tokyoduong (Feb 26, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> I have to disagree with this. I ran a pentium D 805 for 12 months straight in iraq (summers get close to 130 deg) with no AC, OCed to 4ghz on a old Abit board with temps hitting 90's while gaming (never hit the max temp by intel). Once I got home I set it back to stock and the board, cpu, and ram still work in a friend of mines work machine. Has yet to see any degredation BUT I will say this though. Some chips like IB and SB start to degrade over time if pumped with too many volts (1.4V+)



I also have to disagree with you because you are full of BS. You were probably in the Army or AF where your quarters and buildings having hard AC kicking all day. The fact that you can actually have this computer tells me that. Also, the fall and winter months are actually on the cold side and can get below freezing. I've been deployed many times and have years in Iraq and Afghan under my belt. That makes your point of summer being close 130 irrelevant as this computer does not sit outside and I guarantee you that if you left your comp outside in the desert at 130 and game, it will fail almost immediately. Iraq also have very low humidity which is a good thing for computers. Even if you comp is indoors but without AC, it will still fail at stock speed not to mention OC speed. Thanks for trying to fool us though.

I'm glad you spent your time playing video games in the AC while others(especially Marines) get blown up and shot every day. Thanks for wasting cargo space with your stupid tower and gaming needs while I have 2 seabags to carry everything including my outdated body armor. I have to make hard decision to cram an album of family photos or an extra medical/water filtration kit while you were choosing between intel or AMD. However, you're still biased and you brought no valid point to your argument.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 26, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> I also have to disagree with you because you are full of BS. You were probably in the Army or AF where your quarters and buildings having hard AC kicking all day. The fact that you can actually have this computer tells me that. Also, the fall and winter months are actually on the cold side and can get below freezing. I've been deployed many times and have years in Iraq and Afghan under my belt. That makes your point of summer being close 130 irrelevant as this computer does not sit outside and I guarantee you that if you left your comp outside in the desert at 130 and game, it will fail almost immediately. Iraq also have very low humidity which is a good thing for computers. Even if you comp is indoors but without AC, it will still fail at stock speed not to mention OC speed. Thanks for trying to fool us though.
> 
> I'm glad you spent your time playing video games in the AC while others(especially Marines) get blown up and shot every day. Thanks for wasting cargo space with your stupid tower and gaming needs while I have 2 seabags to carry everything including my outdated body armor. I have to make hard decision to cram an album of family photos or an extra medical/water filtration kit while you were choosing between intel or AMD. However, you're still biased and you brought no valid point to your argument.



lol you have no idea ill just leave it at that.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 26, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> I also have to disagree with you because you are full of BS. You were probably in the Army or AF where your quarters and buildings having hard AC kicking all day. The fact that you can actually have this computer tells me that. Also, the fall and winter months are actually on the cold side and can get below freezing. I've been deployed many times and have years in Iraq and Afghan under my belt. That makes your point of summer being close 130 irrelevant as this computer does not sit outside and I guarantee you that if you left your comp outside in the desert at 130 and game, it will fail almost immediately. Iraq also have very low humidity which is a good thing for computers. Even if you comp is indoors but without AC, it will still fail at stock speed not to mention OC speed. Thanks for trying to fool us though.
> 
> I'm glad you spent your time playing video games in the AC while others(especially Marines) get blown up and shot every day. Thanks for wasting cargo space with your stupid tower and gaming needs while I have 2 seabags to carry everything including my outdated body armor. I have to make hard decision to cram an album of family photos or an extra medical/water filtration kit while you were choosing between intel or AMD. However, you're still biased and you brought no valid point to your argument.



I live in Florida and right now its POURING rain. Humidity is 100%. In the Summer it gets to be 98F sometimes 101F with 90% to 100% humidity and you know where my office is? In a room surrounded by windows and no AC. I work in there YEAR ROUND. In the winter it can get down to 24F with rain. Still my rigs plug away. So as usual all I hear from 1337 Marines is a lot of talk. Got a good friend of mine who I grew up with who is an Operator. He says you know the real fighting is over when the Marines show up with the media.  So you can get mad at that if you like but Ill take his word for it over some random guy on the internet.


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## BarbaricSoul (Feb 26, 2013)

You my friend, are the one that sounds bias here. 

How am I running a CPU outside of it's voltage and thermal limits set by the manufacturer when it is them that says not to run more than 1.38 volts though my 2600k or keep it under 80'c at full load? Those are fully within the specs that Intel set for my CPU. It doesn't matter if I up the multi as long as I keep the voltage and temps down. Yes, it requires a better cooling solution than the stock heatsink Intel provides, but again, that doesn't matter. 

And about binning, that is to insure that the CPU is capable of running at the stock settings, and the ones that run extremely well are sold as higher end models(2700k anyone?).

I agree that running my 2600k at 6 ghz with it hitting 100'c and pumping +1.5 volts though it will kill it. But running it at say 4.5ghz with less than 1.38 volts and keeping the temps below 70'c for everyday use(with whatever thermal solution you choose the use) will not shorten it's lifespan.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 26, 2013)

BarbaricSoul said:


> You my friend, are the one that sounds bias here.
> 
> How am I running a CPU outside of it's voltage and thermal limits set by the manufacturer when it is them that says not to run more than 1.38 volts though my 2600k or keep it under 80'c at full load? Those are fully within the specs that Intel set for my CPU. It doesn't matter if I up the multi as long as I keep the voltage and temps down. Yes, it requires a better cooling solution than the stock heatsink Intel provides, but again, that doesn't matter.
> 
> ...



it doesn't matter? tell that to your warranty. The manufacturer also tell you not to run past the rated speed. Upping the multiplier does suck up more power and create more heat. If voltage remain constant then amps must increase. Running more power to any electronics including a light bulb will decrease its reliability. You can increase your reliability by buying better parts but no everyone has the extra money. 

Maybe it's not a big deal to you when you decreased the expected life span from 5 years to 2. Despite that, don't deny the fact that other people need it to work 4-5 years. Also, you guys also are knowledgeable about your hardware, can fix/troubleshoot most issues and probably change/upgrade parts regularly. A decrease in reliability does not affect you as much as other people.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 26, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> it doesn't matter? tell that to your warranty. The manufacturer also tell you not to run past the rated speed. Upping the multiplier does suck up more power and create more heat. If voltage remain constant then amps must increase. Running more power to any electronics including a light bulb will decrease its reliability. You can increase your reliability by buying better parts but no everyone has the extra money.
> 
> Maybe it's not a big deal to you when you decreased the expected life span from 5 years to 2. Despite that, don't deny the fact that other people need it to work 4-5 years. Also, you guys also are knowledgeable about your hardware, can fix/troubleshoot most issues and probably change/upgrade parts regularly. A decrease in reliability does not affect you as much as other people.



As long as you keep it cool even with electron migration its not going to knock 3 years off a 5 year CPU man. Seriously man, you are way off in this argument. The environment I work in is a prime example of that.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 26, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> it doesn't matter? tell that to your warranty. The manufacturer also tell you not to run past the rated speed. Upping the multiplier does suck up more power and create more heat. If voltage remain constant then amps must increase. Running more power to any electronics including a light bulb will decrease its reliability. You can increase your reliability by buying better parts but no everyone has the extra money.
> 
> Maybe it's not a big deal to you when you decreased the expected life span from 5 years to 2. Despite that, don't deny the fact that other people need it to work 4-5 years. Also, you guys also are knowledgeable about your hardware, can fix/troubleshoot most issues and probably change/upgrade parts regularly. A decrease in reliability does not affect you as much as other people.



Sure pump 1.5V into that intel and yes it will degrade fast but safe clocks like mine 1.32V @ 4.5ghz while full load (which is almost NEVER) and .9V 1.6Ghz idle. I do not see it degrading anytime soon. I could see more of what you are mentioning on crunching machines due to the CPU being ran 100% 24/7 while OCed and to point it out. I ran a 2600K 1.33V 4.5ghz 24/7 100% load for 6 months straight crunching bionic and so did the previous owner (KieX) and it showed no signs of degradation.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 26, 2013)

Here you go Tokyo.....







101F in the summer and it rains daily with NO AC. According to you everything should be fried............but its not.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 26, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> Sure pump 1.5V into that intel and yes it will degrade fast but safe clocks like mine 1.32V @ 4.5ghz while full load (which is almost NEVER) and .9V 1.6Ghz idle. I do not see it degrading anytime soon. I could see more of what you are mentioning on crunching machines due to the CPU being ran 100% 24/7 while OCed and to point it out. I ran a 2600K 1.33V 4.5ghz 24/7 100% load for 6 months straight crunching bionic and so did the previous owner (KieX) and it showed no signs of degradation.


Great! 6 months! good for you. I don't know what you're trying to prove when I've stated the problems started at around 3 years for OC systems. Run it for another 3 years and come back.


TheMailMan78 said:


> Here you go Tokyo.....
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130226/IMG_2116.jpg
> 
> 101F in the summer and it rains daily with NO AC. According to you everything should be fried............but its not.



I gotta believe this now cause there's a pic of a desk with computers. BTW his previous claim was 130, not 101. It was also in the desert where dust and sand was a major problem for any system. Even the toughbook that was made for harsh environment did not function properly 100% of the time.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 26, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> Great! 6 months! good for you. I don't know what you're trying to prove when I've stated the problems started at around 3 years for OC systems. Run it for another 3 years and come back.
> 
> 
> I gotta believe this now cause there's a pic of a desk with computers. BTW his previous claim was 130, not 101. It was also in the desert where dust and sand was a major problem for any system. Even the toughbook that was made for harsh environment did not function properly 100% of the time.



What do you expect they were Panasonic's lol


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 26, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> Great! 6 months! good for you. I don't know what you're trying to prove when I've stated the problems started at around 3 years for OC systems. Run it for another 3 years and come back.
> 
> 
> I gotta believe this now cause there's a pic of a desk with computers. BTW his previous claim was 130, not 101. It was also in the desert where dust and sand was a major problem for any system. Even the toughbook that was made for harsh environment did not function properly 100% of the time.



See my local......FLORIDA. RIGHT ON THE GULF. Humidity will screw up electronics just as fast as sand. Don't believe I live in FL? Ask any of the guys I have sold to on here where the shipping address is. Unless you think salt water and heat have no effect on electronics. 

Also what happen to "instantly dying in 130F heat" but now he has to go over 3 years to prove your right? Please man you dunno what you are talking about.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 26, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> See my local......FLORIDA. RIGHT ON THE GULF. Humidity will screw up electronics just as fast as sand. Don't believe I live in FL? Ask any of the guys I have sold to on here where the shipping address is. Unless you think salt water and heat have no effect on electronics.



Yes but how is that picture supposed to prove anything? you splash salt water on your computers?
oh i'm sorry....yea...that picture looks about 98.7% humidity, exactly 101 degrees and it's gotta be florida. No dust and sand is a much bigger problem than humidity. Sand is actually the number 1 problem causing system failures, heat was second. Or arguably, sand causes clogging that makes overheating/mechanical operation a major issue.

Regardless, stop ignoring the point that his claim is outrageous. An OC'd desktop cannot run in a dusty and 130 degrees environment unless he has mad filters and constantly cleaning it. And full blast gaming in that ambient temperature in an OC'd comp? anyone with 3 brain cells would call BS.

And yes please try to do gaming in an OC system in 130 degrees dusty/sandy environment and I guarantee you that the comp will die that same day. I'll bet $5000 on it.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 26, 2013)

Lol what if I told you that I no longer care for you're cause of bring the world up to speed on degradation?


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 26, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> Yes but how is that picture supposed to prove anything? you splash salt water on your computers?
> oh i'm sorry....yea...that picture looks about 98.7% humidity, exactly 101 degrees and it's gotta be florida. No dust and sand is a much bigger problem than humidity. Sand is actually the number 1 problem causing system failures, heat was second. Or arguably, sand causes clogging that makes overheating/mechanical operation a major issue.
> 
> Regardless, stop ignoring the point that his claim is outrageous. An OC'd desktop cannot run in a dusty and 130 degrees environment unless he has mad filters and constantly cleaning it. And full blast gaming in that ambient temperature in an OC'd comp? anyone with 3 brain cells would call BS.



Hes not gaming in the middle of the desert. Hes gaming in his barracks. Sand comes into the barracks sure but its not like hes dumping sand on top of his rig or carrying it around on his back like a Toughbook. Also you can prove I work in a rough environment just by looking at the F#$King weather channel and IP address. Also if you think oxidation, salt and humidity isn't as damaging as sand I got a science book you could borrow.



tokyoduong said:


> And yes please try to do gaming in an OC system in 130 degrees dusty/sandy environment and I guarantee you that the comp will die that same day. I'll bet $5000 on it.


 Brandon did. Should I send you my paypal address now?


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## tokyoduong (Feb 26, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Hes not gaming in the middle of the desert. Hes gaming in his barracks. Sand comes into the barracks sure but its not like hes dumping sand on top of his rig or carrying it around on his back like a Toughbook. Also you can prove I work in a rough environment just by looking at the F#$King weather channel and IP address. Also if you think oxidation, salt and humidity isn't as damaging as sand I got a science book you could borrow.
> 
> Brandon did. Should I send you my paypal address now?



lol, now he's gaming in his barracks because you know everything. And no he didn't. Yes let me check ip address, weather channels and the fbi to verify your claim because you posted a pic. 

Please explain how you got salt into your computer again? especially when it's a desktop and indoors.

Here we go. Do some reading and stop trolling. You can probably find articles on how it works down to the atomic level.

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167022


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 26, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> lol, now he's gaming in his barracks because you know everything. And no he didn't. Yes let me check ip address, weather channels and the fbi to verify your claim because you posted a pic.
> 
> Please explain how you got salt into your computer again? especially when it's a desktop and indoors.
> 
> ...



1. He said he was gaming in his Barracks. I don't have to assume that BECAUSE HE SAID SO.

2. Ever lived near the ocean? SALT AND SAND GETS EVERYWHERE. Top it off when it does get dry I have clay and and sand that blows all over the damn place. I have to keep all my windows open or the heat is unbearable. My office is a "Florida room" converted. Again you don't know what you are talking about. See I can back up EVERYTHING yet you cannot. My IP backs me up. Yet all I hear from you is "Trust me. Brandon is lying" lol


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## tokyoduong (Feb 26, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> I have to disagree with this. I ran a pentium D 805 for 12 months straight in iraq (summers get close to 130 deg) with no AC, OCed to 4ghz on a old Abit board with temps hitting 90's while gaming (never hit the max temp by intel). Once I got home I set it back to stock and the board, cpu, and ram still work in a friend of mines work machine. Has yet to see any degredation BUT I will say this though. Some chips like IB and SB start to degrade over time if pumped with too many volts (1.4V+)





TheMailMan78 said:


> 1. He said he was gaming in his Barracks. I don't have to assume that BECAUSE HE SAID SO.
> 
> 2. Ever lived near the ocean? SALT AND SAND GETS EVERYWHERE. Top it off when it does get dry I have clay and and sand that blows all over the damn place. I have to keep all my windows open or the heat is unbearable. My office is a "Florida room" converted. Again you don't know what you are talking about. See I can back up EVERYTHING yet you cannot. My IP backs me up. Yet all I hear from you is "Trust me. Brandon is lying" lol



1. where does it say barracks? And army, navy, af all have AC in their barracks. Hell even their tents have AC. You don't need to to trust me. What he stated is exaggerated.

2. Yes I lived near the ocean 7 years and sand/salt was not that big of a problem indoors where my computer sits. Maybe learn to keep your house clean?

http://www.csl.mete.metu.edu.tr/Electromigration/emig.htm

To answer his "not noticed any degradation". Of course not, most people won't because it's hard to tell until it fails. You can monitor degradation by keeping track of how much power it takes to run at the same speed. But degradation from electronmigration does not just affect chips but the entire system. Motherboard failures from OC are common also. It does not take a massive OC to cause failure. Just turning on the computer and using it will cause degradation. The degradation rates depends on load and OC. The more electrons flow through it, the more degradation and chances of failure. 

Increase clocks/power -> increased degradation-> decrease reliability.

You can tell all kinds of story and draw all kinds of scenario but this is basic physics.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 26, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> 1. where does it say barracks? And army, navy, af all have AC in their barracks. Hell even their tents have AC. You don't need to to trust me. What he stated is exaggerated.
> 
> 2. Yes I lived near the ocean 7 years and sand/salt was not that big of a problem indoors where my computer sits. Maybe learn to keep your house clean?
> 
> ...



1. Hes shown me pictures of his rig in Iraq. It was in his barracks.
2. Again my rig is in a FLORIDA ROOM. WTF DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!
3. Electronmigration doesn't degrade a CPU so badly that within seconds it fails as you stated in 130F. If you wanna go into this argument you are gonna get raped.


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## AlienIsGOD (Feb 26, 2013)

Tokyo is just trolling now.....

Also what's with the ignorant and rude posters lately?  Coming off like an asshole that knows EVRYTHING isn't going to get you far on a tech site where countless others have experiences that differ from yours.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 26, 2013)

AlienIsGOD said:


> Tokyo is just trolling now.....



Shhhhh. I just wanted to see how long he thought he was trolling me! DAMN IT YOU RUINED IT!


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## AlienIsGOD (Feb 26, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Shhhhh. I just wanted to see how long he thought he was trolling me! DAMN IT YOU RUINED IT!



i will accept 40 teabags in BF 3 as punishment


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## d1nky (Feb 26, 2013)

whats the term 'troll' mean? im new......


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 26, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> 1. where does it say barracks? And army, navy, af all have AC in their barracks. Hell even their tents have AC. You don't need to to trust me. What he stated is exaggerated.



The only AC we had was in a GP medium we used as a chow hall. This was a small patrol base out near tikrit iraq. We had a small compound with a TOC and tricons for living quarters. Yes I took my PC with me in a tuff box so I would have some type of entertainment while not doing missions. We had one 10Kw generator for the whole patrol base. Summer time we had record highs that touched 130deg but was not that temp every day it ranged from 100-119 regularly.



d1nky said:


> whats the term 'troll' mean? im new......



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)


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