# Damaged 5900X & AiO plating after TG Kryonaut



## xdk (Mar 25, 2021)

I have to post that warning, how expensive could be using TG Kryonaut thermal grease.
TG official support ignoring me and my messages, so Im dissapointed as this is well known and common issue with that grease and in come simillar case even here on TPU forum TG support felt responsible.

To the point, the expensive, "premium", "german enginereed" TG Kryonaut thermal grease scratched and damaged my expensive brand new AMD Ryzen 5900X IHS plate and copper plate of my Arctic Liquid CPU cooler. Probably well-known "bad batch" or something. I've used Kryo in the past without any issues, but It happend.

Photos of damaged Ryzen 5900X IHS and cooler copper plate after using Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut sending as attachments.

Grease was bought in 11.1g version in official reseller shop Avans.pl - https://www.avans.pl/, purchase recepit date is 11.12.2020
I confirmed authenticity and verification code on TG site.

Grease was applied and removed carefully by following the instruction. This is permament hardware damage and possible heat/contact issues in the future, on such expensive hardware. I messaged Thermal Grizzly Support, and still I didn't received any solution or compensation offer.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 25, 2021)

I'll never understand why people use this overpriced garbage.  Go get a tube of MX-4 and never have to worry about damaging components and get the same performance.


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## R-T-B (Mar 25, 2021)

newtekie1 said:


> I'll never understand why people use this overpriced garbage.  Go get a tube of MX-4 and never have to worry about damaging components and get the same performance.


I'm sure it has something to do with thermal paste being both the least important component choice in a build, and the most obsessed about one, all at once.


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## oobymach (Mar 25, 2021)

Yeah there was a bad batch of kryonaut, and it's not the best paste, just one of the most expensive. MX4 does a better job for cheaper.


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## Mussels (Mar 25, 2021)

Being a known issue with recalled batches, you'd think they're on the ball with this

Cant you look up the batch codes on their website for this? or was that another brand


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## watzupken (Mar 25, 2021)

I heard it was due to a bad batch, and I ran into the same problem myself. Just surprised that the bad batch lasted this long. The CPU IHS is usually ok, but the base of the cooler is always somewhat defaced when I remove the thermal compound. Since then, I've stopped using Thermal Grizzly and back to Arctic MX4.


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## evernessince (Mar 25, 2021)

oobymach said:


> Yeah there was a bad batch of kryonaut, and it's not the best paste, just one of the most expensive. MX4 does a better job for cheaper.



It's the best non-conductive paste on the market: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/guru3d_thermal_paste_roundup_2019,12.html

I've personally compared it to Noctua and Gelid solutions and it works very very well.  It doesn't dry up as quickly as those pastes as well.

None of this excuses the issues encountered by the OP.  Thermal Grizzly should do a better job supporting their products.


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## Caring1 (Mar 25, 2021)

I'm with Mussels on this, there was a recall and the company did what they could at the time.
The onus is on the seller for not observing the recall or batch number and they should be liable.


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## Mussels (Mar 25, 2021)

Googling, i dont see any info on their website - nothing except that one forum post about a bad 2018 batch

contact their support, repeatedly


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## FireFox (Mar 25, 2021)

newtekie1 said:


> I'll never understand why people use this overpriced garbage


Because many claims that it's the best. I agree with you it's totally garbage.


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## illli (Mar 25, 2021)

you can salvage that heatsink. Get some sandpaper and lap it. It used to be a thing back in the day, you can make it look like a mirror if you work with it long enough. There might still be some guides out there online


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## Chrispy_ (Mar 25, 2021)

I'd just stop using any liquid metal paste TBH. If you're not going to delid, liquid metal is almost entirely pointless. You could lap your coldplate to clean it up and provide a better surface than originally, you might want to lap your CPU but keep the photos of the serial number, and the damage for reference in case you have to warranty it. I'm not even sure what AMD's stance is on a lapped IHS, so do that at your own risk if Thermal Grizzly don't get back to you.


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## Mussels (Mar 25, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> I'd just stop using any liquid metal paste TBH. If you're not going to delid, liquid metal is almost entirely pointless. You could lap your coldplate to clean it up and provide a better surface than originally, you might want to lap your CPU but keep the photos of the serial number, and the damage for reference in case you have to warranty it. I'm not even sure what AMD's stance is on a lapped IHS, so do that at your own risk if Thermal Grizzly don't get back to you.


kryonaut isnt liquid metal


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## Chrispy_ (Mar 25, 2021)

illli said:


> you can salvage that heatsink. Get some sandpaper and lap it. It used to be a thing back in the day, you can make it look like a mirror if you work with it long enough. There might still be some guides out there online


IMO the gains beyond about 600 grit wet-and-dry sandpaper are negligible. Sure, it's gonna look shiny but that has no impact on the thickness of the thermal paste layer at that point.
Just make sure the surface you are using as a base for the sandpaper is genuinely flat, I'd suggest a piece of glass sheet, stone cutting block, or a purpose made acrylic block. If you want to be sure you're lapping evenly, use a sharpie marker to colour in the IHS or coldplate and you know you're done when all the sharpie is gone, and can see if you're applying pressure unevenly to one side so that you can adjust your grip.



Mussels said:


> kryonaut isnt liquid metal


it's gallium-based though, right? Potayto, potah-toe?
NM, I see it's just TG's regular thermal paste. I still have half a 1L tub of Servisol at work - it's the generic thermal white silicone grease that lasts forever.


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## Mussels (Mar 25, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> IMO the gains beyond about 600 grit wet-and-dry sandpaper are negligible. Sure, it's gonna look shiny but that has no impact on the thickness of the thermal paste layer at that point.
> Just make sure the surface you are using as a base for the sandpaper is genuinely flat, I'd suggest a piece of glass sheet, stone cutting block, or a purpose made acrylic block. If you want to be sure you're lapping evenly, use a sharpie marker to colour in the IHS or coldplate and you know you're done when all the sharpie is gone, and can see if you're applying pressure unevenly to one side so that you can adjust your grip.
> 
> 
> it's gallium-based though, right? Potayto, potah-toe?


you're mistaking kryonaut with conductonaut


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## xdk (Mar 25, 2021)

There is a thread where OP says Thermal Grizzly, same like my case, ignoring the problem and messages. They just asked for verification code, probably for their own knowledge which batch they should recall.

But in this thread TG give an OP a compensation in price value higher than damaged Noctua cooler was worth.

Looks like TG just started ignore the customers and their loses TG products cause, or making bad job with it.

I will for sure never again buy Thermal Grizzly product, too risky and too expensive.


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## Bones (Mar 25, 2021)

I'm seeing everyone say there was a bad batch - Looks like way more than one bad batch to me from all the posts I've seen recently about this very issue. 

I've said it before and will again - Kryonaut was created and formulated for sub-zero use. Although it CAN be used with systems ran daily, sub-zero is what it's really meant for. 

MX-4 is a really good TIM that's cheaper and more "Daily useage friendly" than Kryonaut because of that. 
I'm getting that with it's rep for performance is why so many are getting it, expecting the best from it and that's OK, I'd love to have the best myself when shopping around. However with the issues it has and still seems to, that's one big reason why I won't touch the stuff. 

One more thing to that point - I recently set an overclocking WR with MX-4 Carbon (2019 Edition) TIM used with the system I ran and it's an all time record too, beating any and all others period. 
That obviously includes any and all results obtained with Kryonaut in use too. 

While Kryonaut may work well for it's intended useage there are alternatives that can work just as good for alot less without all the problems and damage too.


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## moproblems99 (Mar 25, 2021)

xdk said:


> I have to post that warning, how expensive could be using TG Kryonaut thermal grease.
> TG official support ignoring me and my messages, so Im dissapointed as this is well known and common issue with that grease and in come simillar case even here on TPU forum TG support felt responsible.



If this is so we'll known, why not just buy a different paste that performs within the margin of error in the first place?


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## xdk (Mar 25, 2021)

Bones said:


> I've said it before and will again - Kryonaut was created and formulated for sub-zero use. Although it CAN be used with systems ran daily, sub-zero is what it's really meant for.
> 
> 
> While Kryonaut may work well for it's intended useage there are alternatives that can work just as good for alot less without all the problems and damage too.



Okay, thats obvious I will not use that premium scratching grease anymore, even though I have full 11g tube, but there were no warning that using TG Kryonaut grease can cause CPU and Cooler surface damage. So Thermal Grizzly should be resposible for any user loses after using their product. I send them link to this thread, will see.


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## elghinnarisa (Mar 25, 2021)

xdk said:


> Okay, thats obvious I will not use that premium scratching grease anymore, even though I have full 11g tube, but there were no warning that using TG Kryonaut grease can cause CPU and Cooler surface damage. So Thermal Grizzly should be resposible for any user loses after using their product.


Maybe you can reuse it as polishing paste?


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## xdk (Mar 25, 2021)

@elghinnarisa That would be soo expensive 
It seems to has some corrosive properties also.


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## freeagent (Mar 25, 2021)

Do you think its corrosive? It almost looks like the powder wasn't broken down enough before they added other ingredients. But if that was the case then surely he would have felt that as it was coming out of the tube? Those are big pits. I don't know what's in it so who knows, maybe it is corrosive. Impressive. A little QC can go a long way, especially with a product like that. Because you know all of your customers have an internet connection..


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## newtekie1 (Mar 25, 2021)

evernessince said:


> It's the best non-conductive paste on the market: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/guru3d_thermal_paste_roundup_2019,12.html



Is it though? Is 2°C within margin of error and then there is the obvious potential to of damaged components. Yet people obsess over that 2°C like it is going to make them an extreme overclocking god.



Caring1 said:


> I'm with Mussels on this, there was a recall and the company did what they could at the time.
> The onus is on the seller for not observing the recall or batch number and they should be liable.


I disagree. From what I can tell they just put out a post on their forums about the bad batch. They didn't actively do anything to do a recall. They didn't contact venders, they didn't put a warning on the product page of the website. They just put out a forum post and left it to everyone else to find it after their hardware was damaged.


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## xdk (Mar 25, 2021)

newtekie1 said:


> I disagree. From what I can tell they just put out a post on their forums about the bad batch. They didn't actively do anything to do a recall. They didn't contact venders, they didn't put a warning on the product page of the website. They just put out a forum post and left it to everyone else to find it after their hardware was damaged.


I cant find any official post / their forum about that.


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## oobymach (Mar 25, 2021)

evernessince said:


> It's the best non-conductive paste on the market: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/guru3d_thermal_paste_roundup_2019,12.html
> 
> I've personally compared it to Noctua and Gelid solutions and it works very very well.  It doesn't dry up as quickly as those pastes as well.
> 
> None of this excuses the issues encountered by the OP.  Thermal Grizzly should do a better job supporting their products.


Best is a matter of opinion. Kryonaut is very good, but even NT-H1 has been tested to perform better and prolimatech nano is the best non liquid metal paste.


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## illli (Mar 25, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> IMO the gains beyond about 600 grit wet-and-dry sandpaper are negligible. Sure, it's gonna look shiny but that has no impact on the thickness of the thermal paste layer at that point.
> Just make sure the surface you are using as a base for the sandpaper is genuinely flat, I'd suggest a piece of glass sheet, stone cutting block, or a purpose made acrylic block. If you want to be sure you're lapping evenly, use a sharpie marker to colour in the IHS or coldplate and you know you're done when all the sharpie is gone, and can see if you're applying pressure unevenly to one side so that you can adjust your grip.



yep, definitely get diminishing returns, but it is really fun seeing the results, maybe not practical results, more like "how shiny can I make this"sort of way hah


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## AsRock (Mar 26, 2021)

evernessince said:


> It's the best non-conductive paste on the market: https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/guru3d_thermal_paste_roundup_2019,12.html
> 
> I've personally compared it to Noctua and Gelid solutions and it works very very well.  It doesn't dry up as quickly as those pastes as well.
> 
> None of this excuses the issues encountered by the OP.  Thermal Grizzly should do a better job supporting their products.



It's worthless if they have random bad batches that do this, like who the hell except people making money talking about it want to go though this BS.


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## Frick (Mar 26, 2021)

So is the expectation the OP should be given a replacement CPU and cooler? Is that even the right approach? I wouldn't classify it as "hardware damage" as it's really only superficial. As for degrading thermal performance due to the scratches (or whatever they are) I don't believe that would happen. Bridging those gaps is literally the point of TIMs. Or if the expectation is some kind of compensation, what would that be? The worth of the cost of the tube?


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## moproblems99 (Mar 26, 2021)

oobymach said:


> Best is a matter of opinion. Kryonaut is very good, but even NT-H1 has been tested to perform better and prolimatech nano is the best non liquid metal paste.
> 
> View attachment 193860



Why is anyone arguing about margin of error differences?


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## moproblems99 (Mar 26, 2021)

oobymach said:


> So when another paste trumps your precious kryonaut it's "margin of error"? Psssh. Fanboy.



Sorry, I use NTH2, because that came with my cooler.

Also, there is a .26C difference between the two.  I doubt the accuracy of any tech reviewer that they can consistently be that precise in application that they could repeat those temperature tests in any manner of consistency.  Buy a thermal paste and use it.  Unless you are going for world records, it makes no damn difference.

And put away the fanboy reference.  It makes your muffintop show.


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## freeagent (Mar 26, 2021)

Just throwing this out there but.. I was using Thermalright TFX, supposed to be some of the best stuff on the market.. rated slightly higher then Kryonaut. I went to reapply after swapping coolers but the line got thin less than halfway down.. Had to go to my local shop, and all they had was AS5. I am seeing 3c difference at best, and almost everyone smacks the shit out of AS5 pretty much at any given opportunity. 

So.. either I am doing something right, or someone is doing something wrong. Reviews are to be taken with a grain of salt imo. You could get better results then the reviewer, or not as good..


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## Zach_01 (Mar 26, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Why is anyone arguing about margin of error differences?


The best and worst TIM can differ temp by 4~5C? Lets call it a margin of error.
The best and worst cooler can differ temp by 4~5C? Lets call it also a margin of error.
The best and worst case air flow can differ temp by x~xC?
The lowest and highest ambient(room) temp can....

You can see my point I'm sure. A few margins of error can result to a significant different temp and when you end up with at least 10C of difference you can't call that a margin of error anymore



freeagent said:


> Just throwing this out there but.. I was using Thermalright TFX, supposed to be some of the best stuff on the market.. rated slightly higher then Kryonaut. I went to reapply after swapping coolers but the line got thin less than halfway down.. Had to go to my local shop, and all they had was AS5. I am seeing 3c difference at best, and almost everyone smacks the shit out of AS5 pretty much at any given opportunity.
> 
> So.. either I am doing something right, or someone is doing something wrong. Reviews are to be taken with a grain of salt imo. You could get better results then the reviewer, or not as good..


I was using AS5 for many years and I consider it one of the best TIMs. Because of the very high viscosity of AS5 the trick was to apply a very thin layer and let it cure and temp cycle (warm, cold, warm, cold...) quiet some time. I was using a small plastic bag and 1 finger to apply it to both CPU IHS and cooler's cold plate by just touching the whole surface. Applying a bulb in the middle or drawing Xs didnt do any good. When I buld the Ryzen system I wasnt very satisfied by it though so I switched to Conductonaut. The ~90W R5 3600 is exactly half the wattage of my previous CPU (FX) and yet was operating at same (max) temp (65~66C). Same AS5, AIO cooler and CPU load. Because almost 80W come from a very small (about 1/4) and off center surface compared to the FX. With LM temp dropped to 61~62C.


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## John Naylor (Mar 26, 2021)

1.  When it 1st came out Kryonaut was twice the price as everybody else.  These days no more than any market leaders.

2.  The was a bad batch of TIM.  The batch numbers have been published and buyers are advised to check w/ TG if they are unsure whether or not they are affected.


Kryonaut - $6.99 - $8.99
Gelid Extreme- $6.99 - $8.99
Shin Etsu G751 - $3.99 - $7.50
NH-1 - $7.95 - $10.95
Kingpin - $10.99 - $12.99

I'd include AS5 in there but due to he capacitance and curing issues identified on their home page.  The risk may be small for experienced users but can't justify the selection when the competition is free of these issues.

3.  The problem with testing is performance changes by processor, shape, cooler, application methods, room temperature, time exposed to air and other factors.  Look at 10 reviews and you will see far from 100% agreement.  Heck, look at 1 review and see how performance varries by processor and cooler ... picking 4 perennial favorites.

8700k (4.8 GHz - Air)  - https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/guru3d_thermal_paste_roundup_2019,9.html
(1) Kryonaut / (3) Prolimatech / (4) Gelid / AS5 (16)

9900k (5.0 GHz - Air)  - https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/guru3d_thermal_paste_roundup_2019,10.html








						Guru3D Thermal Paste Roundup 2019
					

Thermal paste is an often-overlooked part of most computer setups. You can simply use the pre-applied stuff, or the thermal paste that comes with your motherboard, and still get reasonable processor t... Air Cooling for i9 9900K@5.0 GHz 1.35V




					www.guru3d.com
				



(4) Kryonaut / (6) Prolimatech / (3) Gelid / AS5 (17)

8700k (4.8 GHz - AIO)  - https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/guru3d_thermal_paste_roundup_2019,11.html
(2) Kryonaut / (5) Prolimatech / (3) Gelid / AS5 (20)

9900k (5.0) GHz - AIO)  - https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/guru3d_thermal_paste_roundup_2019,12.html
(2) Kryonaut / (5) Prolimatech / (6) Gelid / AS5 (17)

Average Ranking in 4 tests:

Kryonaut ~ 2.25 ... but ranged from 1st to 4th place
Gelid ~ 4.00 ... but ranged from 3rd to 6th place
Prolimatech ~ 4,75 ... but ranged from 3rd to 6th place
AS5  ~ 17.5 ... but ranged from 16th - 17th place


4.  Ya have to chuckle at the mind set that says 4-5C difference doesn't matter, when folks will spend three times what they'd pay to get a $50 air cooler to get an AIO that is 2.5 times as loud and gains 1C.   If 4-5C doesn't matter then why spend an extra $100 extra for an AIO ?


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## thesmokingman (Mar 26, 2021)

Nice PK3 still kicking some serious arse.


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## moproblems99 (Mar 26, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> The best and worst TIM can differ temp by 4~5C? Lets call it a margin of error.
> The best and worst cooler can differ temp by 4~5C? Lets call it also a margin of error.
> The best and worst case air flow can differ temp by x~xC?
> The lowest and highest ambient(room) temp can....
> ...



We aren't talking about the best and worst.  We are talking about the difference between 3rd and 7th.  It's about 1.25C.  Again, the inconsistent nature of applying paste just adds to the issues.  All the top brands are close enough that you will fudge the application up before the brand matters.


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## xdk (Mar 26, 2021)

jaggerwild said:


> @OP,
> Looks like it got scratched when you twisted off the the water block from the CPU. It's surface really, its not pitted. If it was so wide spread why didn't you not buy it lolz? You came here to the Wailing wall, now go away see you in 2 weeks when you fu@k up something else.


Twisted? The ihs and cooper plate are rather smooth AF, so if even, this would show how heavy abrassive properties that thermal grease has, but its not polishing paste right?
Srsly you not see the pits, simillar to that on other threads? Then you must be blind, sorry.
I realized its wide spread after that happen, u must Google it to find something..
Before I had 3900X, used Kryo also, and demounted cooler / changed paste many times, its surface was still close to brand new when I sold it.


Frick said:


> So is the expectation the OP should be given a replacement CPU and cooler? Is that even the right approach? I wouldn't classify it as "hardware damage" as it's really only superficial. As for degrading thermal performance due to the scratches (or whatever they are) I don't believe that would happen. Bridging those gaps is literally the point of TIMs. Or if the expectation is some kind of compensation, what would that be? The worth of the cost of the tube?


Why not? It seems obvious in case damage is deep and serious, and it simply wouldn't have happened if I had used a different grease.
In simillar thread I've linked before, OP for far less damaged Noctua cooler coldpate got compensation c.a 150% of brand new cooler price.

I got reponse from support, so will see.


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## oobymach (Mar 26, 2021)

John Naylor said:


> Kryonaut - $6.99 - $8.99


Not in Canada, here it's $30 a gram.








						Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Thermal Grease Paste - 1.0 Gram - Newegg.com
					

Buy Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Thermal Grease Paste - 1.0 Gram with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.ca


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## anachron (Mar 26, 2021)

@oobymach : Isn't it half this price on amazon.ca?


			Amazon.ca
		


It's around 11€/g here on amazon.fr


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## pantherx12 (Mar 26, 2021)

This is why I just use GD 900.


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## AsRock (Mar 26, 2021)

John Naylor said:


> *1.  When it 1st came out Kryonaut was twice the price as everybody else.  These days no more than any market leaders.*
> 
> 2.  The was a bad batch of TIM.  The batch numbers have been published and buyers are advised to check w/ TG if they are unsure whether or not they are affected.
> 
> ...



A quick look on Amazon


Kryonaut 8g $19.00 shipping included ( only 4 left hehe). Other wise $9 per gram + shipping.

MX-4 8g $11.99 free shipping or you can buy from amazon and pay a extra $5.


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## R0H1T (Mar 26, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> The best and worst cooler can differ temp by 4~5C? Lets call it also a margin of error.


That's not true & there's a good number of reasons, including design & surface area, for that. What're you gonna do about that viscous liquid/paste that can only be applied in one way?


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## evernessince (Mar 26, 2021)

oobymach said:


> Best is a matter of opinion. Kryonaut is very good, but even NT-H1 has been tested to perform better and prolimatech nano is the best non liquid metal paste.
> 
> View attachment 193860


You are taking a single example and extrapolating it to the whole (and from Tom's Hardware no less, which is trash). For some god forsaken reason they decided to use an expensive semi-custom loop on a stock Intel processor as well.  It's not a realistic configuration for an Intel CPU, where you spend all this extra money on a cooler and on the K variant and then don't OC nor does it properly display the difference between the pastes.  The chart you linked is absolutely worthless for extrapolating any useful data from.  Guru3D clearly thought their benchmark out more as they overclock the processor to see how the pastes handle the increased thermal load.

The link I posted before shows the NT-H1 quite a bit behind TG:K in not just high pressure mounting situations but air high / low and water high / low pressure mounts..  I've compared NT-H1 to Thermal Grizzly on the same system and can confirm Guru3ds results with a high mount pressure air cooler.  Thermal Grizzly is better.

It's less a matter of opinion and more about looking at the whole picture and not cherry picking a single result to suite a narrative.



newtekie1 said:


> Is it though? Is 2°C within margin of error and then there is the obvious potential to of damaged components. Yet people obsess over that 2°C like it is going to make them an extreme overclocking god.



Non conductive pastes can't damage components.  It has less to do with making anyone an OC god and more getting the most out of your PC.  A $13 investment is nothing compared to the total price of the PC.


AsRock said:


> It's worthless if they have random bad batches that do this, like who the hell except people making money talking about it want to go though this BS.



That would be singular, bad batch.  You'd be hard pressed to find a single company that hasn't made a mistake at some point.  I agree this could certainly be handled much better


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## ratirt (Mar 26, 2021)

A TG paste did that? On the cooler plate it looks like somebody rub it with a metal brush. Same on the CPU IHS when the paste was taken off it got scratched when using sand paper. I'm really skeptic a thermal paste (just by applying it) did that.


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## Chomiq (Mar 26, 2021)

xdk said:


> To the point, the expensive, "premium", "german enginereed" TG Kryonaut thermal grease scratched and damaged my expensive brand new AMD Ryzen 5900X IHS plate and copper plate of my Arctic Liquid CPU cooler. Probably well-known "bad batch" or something. *I've used Kryo in the past without any issues*, but It happend.


So you used it in the past with no problems and now that you run into a bad batch you'll never use it again. Ok.


xdk said:


> This is permament hardware damage and possible heat/contact issues in the future


No it's not, as mentioned by others thermal compound is designed to fill in those gaps/pits whatever you call them (I doubt they're super deep, you could probably remove them with few swipes of fine sandpaper).

So what do you expect from TG? New CPU and new cooler? Refund for Kryo?


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## moproblems99 (Mar 26, 2021)

oobymach said:


> So you not only don't like the fact that another paste beat kryonaut you're such a die hard fanboy of it you can't accept that it's not the be all end all of pastes. I



Thread ban incoming but grow the fuck up buddy.


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## damric (Mar 26, 2021)

The damage almost reminds me of that IC Diamond clay stuff that we all got for free on the forum a few years ago. That stuff was rough.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 26, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> The best and worst TIM can differ temp by 4~5C? Lets call it a margin of error.
> The best and worst cooler can differ temp by 4~5C? Lets call it also a margin of error.
> The best and worst case air flow can differ temp by x~xC?
> The lowest and highest ambient(room) temp can....
> ...



We aren't talking 4-5°C, we are talking 2°C. That is margin of error.  No one seems to notice that every website that does thermal paste tests ever agree with each other on which the best performing paste is.  Guru3d has Kryonaut outperforming NT-H1, then Toms had NT-H1 outperforming Kryonaut.  If you look hard enough you can probably find a website that puts any of the popular pastes at the top.  Why? Margin of error and the reality that all the top pastes perform extremely similar to each other. So unless you are willing to switch to liquid metal, there isn't really anything to be gained by stressing over which thermal paste to use. Hell, the difference between Kryonaut and Arctic Alumina is less than 3°C according to Tom's. Don't waste money on a tiny tube of paste thinking it will be any better than the cheaper huge tupe of MX4.

On the other hand, you should take into consideration other factors. Ease of use is a big one. I like a paste that I can just put a dot on the processor and stick the heatsink on. I don't consider a paste that needs to be spread by me a good paste. 

But the biggest consideration is potential to damage components, like with Kryonaut and IC Diamond.  I'm not going to use either one of those because they are known to damage components. I'm also not going to use liquid metal, with the exception of with delidding. And I won't use any product from IC Diamond simply because of how they handled the situation when people found out their paste was damaging components.


----------



## neatfeatguy (Mar 26, 2021)

I just stick with AS5 - works good. Hasn't caused me any issues. Cleaning up is fairly simple and applying it is easy. It does the job and if the application of AS5 isn't working on helping keeping components cool, then something else if very wrong (not enough AS5 used or too much used, heatsink not seated properly, poor air flow, improper heatsink used that can't dissipate heat well enough for the application you're using it for).

If 1-2C is enough of a temperature difference that it makes or breaks your build....then clearly something else is wrong with your setup.

Stick with what works.


----------



## Frick (Mar 26, 2021)

damric said:


> The damage almost reminds me of that IC Diamond clay stuff that we all got for free on the forum a few years ago. That stuff was rough.



So the OP has doctored the images??!!

(for the reference, find the ICD thread, it's sad)


----------



## basco (Mar 26, 2021)

interesting: i understand damric´s post as like : he feels sad about what happend then with icd and now with kryo.


----------



## Zach_01 (Mar 26, 2021)

newtekie1 said:


> So unless you are willing to switch to liquid metal, there isn't really anything to be gained by stressing over which thermal paste to use. Hell, the difference between Kryonaut and Arctic Alumina is less than 3°C according to Tom's. Don't waste money on a tiny tube of paste thinking it will be any better than the cheaper huge tupe of MX4.


This why I didn’t bother with any of the “normal” pastes and gone straight to LM after AS5. But I was ready to deal with what it takes to use LM.


----------



## damric (Mar 26, 2021)

Frick said:


> So the OP has doctored the images??!!
> 
> (for the reference, find the ICD thread, it's sad)


Well I didn't imply that, and I didn't doctor my own images of what the IC Diamond did to my IHS and Heatsink.


----------



## micropage7 (Mar 26, 2021)

that's reason why i prefer 1c higher is better than something that screw your components


----------



## freeagent (Mar 26, 2021)

ICD7 was a shit show, no doubt. But this is bull shit. This is the 4th or 5th thread I have seen on the matter, probably the 3rd one here. How it turned into a TIM comparo I have no idea. Also, the damage left behind by ICD7 was not even remotely as severe as this. Nobody is sticking their fingers in the mix to see if it is still clumpy lol. If they cant be bothered to do that, I cant be bothered to open my wallet. 

ICD7 just rubbed the etching off on my CPU's, it didn't leave any pitting, or deep scratches.


----------



## Frick (Mar 26, 2021)

damric said:


> Well I didn't imply that, and I didn't doctor my own images of what the IC Diamond did to my IHS and Heatsink.



... no, it was a reference joke to what the CEO douche said. I used to question marks and two exlamation marks.


----------



## phanbuey (Mar 26, 2021)

kyonaut did this to my 10850K as well, completely pitted both.  Ive switched to kpx since.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 26, 2021)

NT-H2 for life.


----------



## ThrashZone (Mar 26, 2021)

Hi,
Yeah only thermal grizzly product I would entertain would be hydronaut and that's only if it wasn't price stupid which never happens lol


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 27, 2021)

moproblems99 said:


> Why is anyone arguing about margin of error differences?


Because it's thermal paste.  It's mystical nearly irrelevant goo that people love to argue about.

If in question, see my first post.


----------



## Rebootableglitch (Mar 28, 2021)

I recently purchased some Grizzly KT thermal paste.... what are the bad batch numbers for it? I hope to god I didn't use it, I only recently reapplyed it like 2 months ago with it,


----------



## mtcn77 (Mar 28, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'm sure it has something to do with thermal paste being both the least important component choice in a build, and the most obsessed about one, all at once.


Thermal paste accounts for *10*%(not 30%) of performance variability. The heatsink is 45% with mounting pressure at *30*%(not 10%) of maximum variability.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 28, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Thermal paste accounts for 30% of performance variability. The heatsink is 45% with mounting pressure at 10% of maximum variability.


those numbers are totally believable, but where did they come from?
(where did the come from where did they go, where did they come from cotton eye joe *humming intensifies*)


----------



## Calmmo (Mar 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> those numbers are totally believable, but where did they come from?
> (where did the come from where did they go, where did they come from cotton eye joe *humming intensifies*)


This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill
Fifteen percent concentrated power of will

_sorry couldnt resist_


----------



## mtcn77 (Mar 28, 2021)

Mussels said:


> those numbers are totally believable, but where did they come from?
> (where did the come from where did they go, where did they come from cotton eye joe *humming intensifies*)


Some paper I noted that I quote time and again when we were discussing coldplates with integrated vapour chambers. I rounded them plus or minus 2%. I believe *mounting pressure*(not tim) was 28.8%, *tim* 11%(not mounting pressure). Citing the original paper is harder than you think.

Maybe, you can google search the chart. It is from the same article.








						Why Intel CPU's run at 95°C and why AMD's should, also
					

I love you, in the sense of physics.  The whole thermal problem is realizing the problem has not been solved to an exact number by anyone.  Everyone has tried; all the names have taken their hack at it.  To quote a movie I like, "It remains"   "Easy" is not a word that ever comes out in physics...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 28, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Thermal paste accounts for *10*%(not 30%) of performance variability. The heatsink is 45% with mounting pressure at *30*%(not 10%) of maximum variability.


Sounds plausible.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 28, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Sounds plausible.


Indeed..

I would bump up the skill level and concentrated will power just a hair, as not all pastes are created equal.. and some can be a real B..

and moar fanz!!1


----------



## rdwing (Mar 29, 2021)

I have a tube from the bad batch back in 2018, I didn't know there was a bad batch until very recently. I didn't realize just how bad it was until I used it on my new Zen 3 5900x build. It's shockingly abrasive.

I reached out to TG on 1/29 and after 2 emails back and forth where they requested photos and I provided them, they've just ignored me. I've followed up weekly but just nothing. Super super unprofessional.

Screw them.












Part of the problem is that there were no batch numbers back around the original known bad batch. TG claimed to have no way to notify consumers. I think they could have put something on their website, at least.


----------



## xdk (Mar 29, 2021)

Welcome in the club.


rdwing said:


> I have a tube


----------



## Final_Fighter (Mar 29, 2021)

im beginning to think that this is not a "Bad Batch" issue. its more like an environmental issue. im talking about the temperature swings and humidity that the pc is working in. people who review products do so in a controlled environment where as most people who get ahold of this stuff probably have a lot of variation in temperature and humidity. just a thought.


----------



## mtcn77 (Mar 29, 2021)

I don't get it. Would it help if the paste was applied after heat applied in a double boiler? I don't see past how friction could be present if viscosity was available. What did they put in it - rough chopped diamonds?


----------



## Blue4130 (Mar 30, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I don't get it. Would it help if the paste was applied after heat applied in a double boiler? I don't see past how friction could be present if viscosity was available. What did they put in it - rough chopped diamonds?


It wouldn't be the first paste to use industrial diamonds in the mix...


----------



## Thermal-Grizzly (Mar 30, 2021)

Hello everyone,
i just want to clear some things up.
We are trying our best to resolve any problems our customers may face, whilst doing that we may run into some problems. After we openly admitted to having a bad batch, there were a lot of people who tried to scam us and just take "free" money, therefore we had to check it way more thoroughly. We wanted to make it as easy as possible for our customers, but there are always people who just want to make a fortune out of others people "generosity". And as it was stated earlier in this thread, we did not have good tools at our hand to check where the products where bought. Overthe last 3 years, we added a lot of tools into our products to check where they came from. After having a bad batch, our website was updated and it was openly communicated that there was a problem with some products bought in a specific time frame. We even added a warning on our website when we heard about people buying fake products of Kryonaut.
In the case of @xdk we were trying to check what exactly happened here. It was not a bad batch, and neither a fake. We immediately checked the batch to see if there was a problem with it or not, and there was none. We have an Idea why this happened and will respond after we are 100% sure. We are sorry this took so long, but as i have stated we were working on this case and i also wrote to you that you can always go to a forum and ask for help. We know this took too long on our site and we are trying our best to fix it.
In the case of @rdwing;
I have wrote you a mail from my private account since it seems you are not getting the mails from my work mail. It would have been solved around a month ago otherwise.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

Greetings,
Jannik - Thermal Grizzly


----------



## Mussels (Mar 30, 2021)

Thermal-Grizzly said:


> Hello everyone,
> i just want to clear some things up.
> We are trying our best to resolve any problems our customers may face, whilst doing that we may run into some problems. After we openly admitted to having a bad batch, there were a lot of people who tried to scam us and just take "free" money, therefore we had to check it way more thoroughly. We wanted to make it as easy as possible for our customers, but there are always people who just want to make a fortune out of others people "generosity". And as it was stated earlier in this thread, we did not have good tools at our hand to check where the products where bought. Overthe last 3 years, we added a lot of tools into our products to check where they came from. After having a bad batch, our website was updated and it was openly communicated that there was a problem with some products bought in a specific time frame. We even added a warning on our website when we heard about people buying fake products of Kryonaut.
> In the case of @xdk we were trying to check what exactly happened here. It was not a bad batch, and neither a fake. We immediately checked the batch to see if there was a problem with it or not, and there was none. We have an Idea why this happened and will respond after we are 100% sure. We are sorry this took so long, but as i have stated we were working on this case and i also wrote to you that you can always go to a forum and ask for help. We know this took too long on our site and we are trying our best to fix it.
> ...



thanks for coming by and posting - interesting that people arent getting the reply emails, an issue with spam filters would explain why people think theres no replies or follow up


----------



## Thermal-Grizzly (Mar 30, 2021)

Final_Fighter said:


> im beginning to think that this is not a "Bad Batch" issue. its more like an environmental issue. im talking about the temperature swings and humidity that the pc is working in. people who review products do so in a controlled environment where as most people who get ahold of this stuff probably have a lot of variation in temperature and humidity. just a thought.


No it was definetly a bad batch on our side. While using highend paste like Kryonaut small micro scratches can happen because of the oxides included, but in the case of the bad batch the oxides were not milled small enough and therefore caused some bigger scratches which should definetly not happen.
We also made a spectral analysis to check the problem and solve the issues. We tried our best to fix it as fast as possible.



Mussels said:


> thanks for coming by and posting - interesting that people arent getting the reply emails, an issue with spam filters would explain why people think theres no replies or follow up


It seems like there is a problem with our mailserver and gmail.com and yandex.ru addresses. They are getting filtered way to often at this moment and we are investigating this. Another big problem is when using our contact form on our website, a lot of people are putting in wrong addresses e.g. gmal.com and are not receiving answer because they can not be reached and we have to check manually where the problem was. In the case of rdwing however the problem was not a wrongly spelled mail address.


And since i have read about the rubber tip sometimes missing in our products :
Our products get handpacked in germany at a workshop for disabled. In some cases like 1/5000 the rubber tip or the manual is missing. If we get a report about the problem we try to send a new tip if it really is needed or send the manual as pdf. In the case the tube is missing ( Which happened like two times over the last years) we offer a full refund and send a goodie package. This is something we accept, because we think giving a job to handicapped people in germany and having to resend a tip every few thousand items is more important than having the products packaged in china and maybe save a few bucks.

Greetings
Jannik - Thermal Grizzly


----------



## xdk (Mar 30, 2021)

Thermal-Grizzly said:


> While using highend paste like Kryonaut small micro scratches can happen because of the oxides included


Such warning should appear in the grease package!

Put this to inform customer he using it at his own risk.

And they are not so micro, as mine, rdwing and others pics showed..


----------



## Thermal-Grizzly (Mar 30, 2021)

xdk said:


> Such warning should appear in the grease package!
> 
> Put this to inform customer he using it at his own risk.
> 
> And they are not so micro, as mine, rdwing and others pics showed..


It seems like i explained it not carefully enough. With micro scratches im referring to scratches which are mostly not even visible and are on most coolers even if they are fresh out of the box. If you look at a bottom of a cooler they are never 100% plain, more like 99,8%, you will always see some rings on them. The scratches you are facing are a whole different category, but are still not affecting the performance in any way.

Jannik - Thermal Grizzly


----------



## mtcn77 (Mar 30, 2021)

I still assume had the product wouldn't cause friction, the oxides are in suspension in a viscous state. The only explanation is fast curing "evaporation" like it happens with diamond pastes, though it ought to accompany a loss of conductance and tim failure upon its discovery.


----------



## rdwing (Mar 30, 2021)

Well I can confirm that I did hear from Jannik. I guess there is some problems from TG email servers to gmail. I really suggest looking at better email service. Sounds like this will get resolved finally. Thanks,


----------



## xdk (Mar 30, 2021)

To update the case, I finally received compensation offer from Thermal Grizzly, but that is unappropiate low value, so I waiting for the response.


----------



## basco (Mar 30, 2021)

can i ask what do you expect to get ?
we dont know the offer so ?

i mean serious it will not affect your cpu nor the cooling performance-that is not to say it sucks that it happened.


----------



## mtcn77 (Mar 30, 2021)

basco said:


> can i ask what do you expect to get ?
> we dont know the offer so ?


I bet it's an honorary spot at overclocking competition rankings.


----------



## maxfly (Mar 30, 2021)

xdk said:


> To update the case, I finally received compensation offer from Thermal Grizzly, but that is unappropiate low value, so I waiting for the response.


If i were you i wouldnt share any compensation offer publicly. Otherwise you will leave yourself open to being judged unfairly.
Just my 2c.


----------



## xdk (Mar 30, 2021)

maxfly said:


> If i were you i wouldnt share any compensation offer publicly. Otherwise you will leave yourself open to being judged unfairly.
> Just my 2c.


Of course, just wanted to update that TG Support reacted and started work to resolve this.


----------



## xdk (Apr 1, 2021)

Thermal-Grizzly said:


> Jannik - Thermal Grizzly


Just want to remind here, I still waiting for reponse for messages sent to official support email and to j.froehlich


----------



## OneMoar (Apr 1, 2021)

seems like your are blowing this a bit out of proportion

sounds like the shop you bought it from sold you old stock and didn't adhere to the recall

the last cases I have seen of this where over a year ago and where also due to people getting ahold of old stock

there has been a handful of cases of this its not a wide spread issue and only affected a few thousand units pre-recall

the issue is purely cosmetic anyway does TG owe you some compensation, Probly
should they pay to replace your cooler and cpu FUCK NO

and this situation is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT then IC-Diamond the issue with IC-Diamond wasn't so much the damaged caused but the entirely childish and unprofessional manner it was handled,
 as well the the ceo of the dam company coming here and having a complete Streisand monument meltdown


----------



## xdk (Apr 1, 2021)

I want to add, that I didn't receive together with compensation offer any apology word or they didn't express regret for what their product caused, which is rather unusual in such cases, and their compensation offer was unappropiate low, just like take some $$ and stay quiet, I have a feeling TG doesn't feel very guilty for their premium product, and that now they working to proof in their way that was not Kryo fault, instead of send appropiate compensations to end this. They said sthg about "internal tests" and "many scams after bad batch", so Im almost sure that soon they'll post some "proofs" from laboratory environemt that Kryonaut couldn't cause damage posted here and there etc. etc. But I wasn't asked to hire for tests my Kryonaut tube, my CPU and rest of my hardware so. Interesting if I predicted them and with what they will come back.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 1, 2021)

All they really owe you is a replacement thermal paste

cosmetic damage is not that big a deal, unlike the IC diamond you havent had the serial numbers gouged out or anything - and as they said, they've had a lot of scammers do exactly this make a few scratches and demand large sums of money


----------



## OneMoar (Apr 1, 2021)

xdk said:


> I want to add, that I didn't receive together with compensation offer any apology word or they didn't express regret for what their product caused, which is rather unusual in such cases, and their compensation offer was unappropiate low, just like take some $$ and stay quiet, I have a feeling TG doesn't feel very guilty for their premium product, and that now they working to proof in their way that was not Kryo fault, instead of send appropiate compensations to end this. They said sthg about "internal tests" and "many scams after bad batch", so Im almost sure that soon they'll post some "proofs" from laboratory environemt that Kryonaut couldn't cause damage posted here and there etc. etc. But I wasn't asked to hire for tests my Kryonaut tube, my CPU and rest of my hardware so. Interesting if I predicted them and with what they will come back.


see now you are just speculating. thing is borderline disparaging remarks do not strengthen your case only weaken it

you keep mentioning the offer was inappropriately low much was the offer exactly ?. because you are giving the impression of somebody that is not looking for fair compensation but looking to profit off the situation

my honest opinion is that thermal grizzly did the best they could with the recall and its up to the retailer to ensure that the stock is sent back to them and not out to customers
I promise you they never even bothered to check there stock for recalled units and send them back 

also there is certain people that do take advantage of stuff like this and attempt to get the manufacture to pay for damage not related to there product.
I mean after all how do you prove that the product in question caused the damage.
how do you prove that the guy with the IHS that looks like it was attacked by a rabid badger was accually using your product and not sandpaper


----------



## xdk (Apr 1, 2021)

Mussels said:


> All they really owe you is a replacement thermal paste
> 
> cosmetic damage is not that big a deal, unlike the IC diamond you havent had the serial numbers gouged out or anything - and as they said, they've had a lot of scammers do exactly this make a few scratches and demand large sums of money


Replacement thermal paste because? So agree its failed? So no, technically and literally zero warning what it can do. Or it's not suppose do to it. So, theoretically, new replacement paste and damaged hardware. I have in the a$$ u think its cosmetic, i see it IRL, i didnt agrees for that and wouldnt happen with different grease. Simple. Sad but True my TG friend.

@OneMore the sandpaper doesn't make the pitting u should see on the pics, what is odd they look very simillar in other threads "Kryonaut scratching".


----------



## OneMoar (Apr 1, 2021)

I got news for you all thermal-paste is somewhat abrasive if it wasn't it would not work very well as thermal paste 90% of all the compounds used in thermal paste are either silica, ceramic or metallic


----------



## mtcn77 (Apr 1, 2021)

I would accept the money and upgrade to liquid metal. There. Everyone's happy.


----------



## xdk (Apr 1, 2021)

OneMoar said:


> I got news for you all thermal-paste is somewhat abrasive if it wasn't it would not work very well as thermal paste 90% of all the compounds used in thermal paste are either silica, ceramic or metallic


So why when I used Kryonaut before, or NT-H1, GC Extreme, CM's and Arctic greases, they were never abrassive and leaved IHS and coldplate in perfect condition? Because now I picked sandpaper or drill to fondle 1000$ 5900X to get 200$ compensation? OK.

@mtcn77 u should google to see what LM doing with IHS and where/when u should apply it.


----------



## mtcn77 (Apr 1, 2021)

xdk said:


> @mtcn77 u should google to see what LM doing with IHS and where/when u should apply it.


I'm saddened to hear your perception on the good stuff.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 1, 2021)

xdk said:


> Replacement thermal paste because? So agree its failed? So no, technically and literally zero warning what it can do. Or it's not suppose do to it. So, theoretically, new replacement paste and damaged hardware. I have in the a$$ u think its cosmetic, i see it IRL, i didnt agrees for that and wouldnt happen with different grease. Simple. Sad but True my TG friend.
> 
> @OneMore the sandpaper doesn't make the pitting u should see on the pics, what is odd they look very simillar in other threads "Kryonaut scratching".


?
By definition cosmetic means you can see it. either there's a language barrier here or you're just getting hostile over nothing - i dont even know what "i have in the ass" is meant to mean, but beware insulting other members here.

That pitting you see is purely visible, has not voided your warranty on CPU or cooler and very likely wont affect the cooling of them either... so that means its cosmetic damage, not functional damage or something to void your warranties. What are you asking for? Do you want replacement thermal paste? some sandpaper? a brand new CPU? What are you expecting from TG, here?

Have you confirmed you got one of the bad batches, or was it an assumption? User error can also genuinely happen here


----------



## Blue4130 (Apr 1, 2021)

xdk said:


> ? Because now I picked sandpaper or drill to fondle 1000$ 5900X to get 200$ compensation? OK.


If they offered you $200, they offered you way too much.


----------



## xdk (Apr 1, 2021)

Blue4130 said:


> If they offered you $200, they offered you way too much.


They offered 150€ for 80€ brand new price Noctua cooler in other thread, just read all before post.

I didn't told what they offered, I know its fragile topic. Of course and I think its obvious that I would like to have undamaged both such expensive and rare CPU (almost impossible to find in stock already), and the cooler. How recently these components come to me, and almost new hardware looks already battle scarred. To compare, before getting 5900X I owned much lower price 3900X for longer time, where I changed coolers and grease many times, and still it looked like brand new at sell time. No doubt if I would like to sell CPU and cooler now as briefy used, it would be suspicious for potential buyer and solid point to lower resell value. How you don't look at this, I'm injuried.


----------



## sepheronx (Apr 1, 2021)

xdk said:


> They offered 150€ for 80€ brand new price Noctua cooler in other thread, just read all before post.
> 
> I didn't told what they offered, I know its fragile topic. Of course I would like to have undamaged both components as how recently they come to me, and almost new hardware looks already battle scarred. To compare, before getting 5900X I owned much lower price 3900X which I changed coolers and grease many times, and still it looked like brand new at sell time. No doubt if I would like to sell CPU and cooler now as briefy used, it would be suspicious for potential buyer and solid point to lower resell value. How you don't look at this, I'm injuried.



I am having a trouble time understanding you.  It must be a language barrier.  I know you are trying to explain why you feel the compensation isn't enough, but can you kindly give a breakdown as to how it isn't enough?

So you are saying that someone got 150 euro's for a 80 euro cooler and you are wanting similar compensation for your cooler, is this correct?  You have said it is insufficient but you haven't really made clear how or why.

Just to get some clarity - are you wanting them to pay you for both a new processor and a new AIO?


----------



## OneMoar (Apr 1, 2021)

175.00 usd is way more then I thought they would offer
as for resell value your point is shaky at best cosmetic damage very rarely effects price, in this market with the scarcity you are still likely to get more then msrp

this thread is going no-ware its just turned into a public name and shame


----------



## House79 (Apr 27, 2021)

xdk said:


> They offered 150€ for 80€ brand new price Noctua cooler in other thread, just read all before post.
> 
> I didn't told what they offered, I know its fragile topic. Of course and I think its obvious that I would like to have undamaged both such expensive and rare CPU (almost impossible to find in stock already), and the cooler. How recently these components come to me, and almost new hardware looks already battle scarred. To compare, before getting 5900X I owned much lower price 3900X for longer time, where I changed coolers and grease many times, and still it looked like brand new at sell time. No doubt if I would like to sell CPU and cooler now as briefy used, it would be suspicious for potential buyer and solid point to lower resell value. How you don't look at this, I'm injuried.


What about temps after and before those scratches on ryzen? Have they changed significantly? I have the same scratches on my 5900x after using kryonout



Thermal-Grizzly said:


> It seems like i explained it not carefully enough. With micro scratches im referring to scratches which are mostly not even visible and are on most coolers even if they are fresh out of the box. If you look at a bottom of a cooler they are never 100% plain, more like 99,8%, you will always see some rings on them. The scratches you are facing are a whole different category, but are still not affecting the performance in any way.
> 
> Jannik - Thermal Grizzly


I'm having the same issue, same scratches on my 5900x after kryonout


----------



## ThrashZone (Apr 27, 2021)

Hi,
If the scratches come up as an issue for an rma claim then it's a problem otherwise don't use thermal grizzly *kry*onaut.


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Apr 28, 2021)

Imho if the chip is actually damaged (ie no post ) or cooler (ie unable to mount) they should give him replacment
but scrates and dents in the surface are the exact kind of thing tp is designed for i doubt this will do anything to thermals


----------



## bobbybluz (Apr 28, 2021)

A side note about scratches in CPU heatspreaders: I purposely look for CPU's I want to buy off Ebay that have minor scratches in them. Since most people won't buy them I make lowball offers to the sellers and so far I've been successful every time. My last score was a 22c 44t Xeon E5 2699 V4 for $250 less than the next least expensive one listed and $75 less than one for parts only. The listing pictures were actually far worse than the scratches turned out to be. An Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 with Gelid GC Extreme paste is great on it. It's the coolest running of all 8 PC's I have. Unless the die underneath the heatspreader is damaged scratches aren't anything to worry about.


----------



## Kissamies (Apr 28, 2021)

newtekie1 said:


> I'll never understand why people use this overpriced garbage.  Go get a tube of MX-4 and never have to worry about damaging components and get the same performance.


Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra is my way to go when I use liquid metal as it's easier to apply. And I don't use it as I use paste normally, only on bare dies (like on my laptop's CPU, pretty nice drop in temps there).


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Apr 28, 2021)

i just use stock thermal paste if i can
otherwise i use whatever i can find normally mx4


----------



## rdwing (Apr 30, 2021)

House79 said:


> What about temps after and before those scratches on ryzen? Have they changed significantly? I have the same scratches on my 5900x after using kryonout
> 
> 
> I'm having the same issue, same scratches on my 5900x after kryonout


Well, temps are maybe slightly worse but its hard to tell. I have collected statistical data over the lifetime but with different changes made here and there it can be difficult to pin down to just that. Honestly its probably within the error margin.


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## Chrispy_ (Apr 30, 2021)

Isaac` said:


> i just use stock thermal paste if i can
> otherwise i use whatever i can find normally mx4


This chart from page 1 of this thread kind of proves a point - all of these results are within margin of error. Not sure what's up with MX4, bad application perhaps? Other reviews have put MX4 in the middle of the pack.


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## House79 (Apr 30, 2021)

Kryonout scratched my 5900x as well. Luckily it didn't worsen temps at all. I use MX5 now and I'm more than happy with it. Temps are great, and application with spatula is a child's play.


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## Kissamies (Apr 30, 2021)

House79 said:


> application with spatula is a child's play.


I'm surprised that anyone even uses those. I throw those to the bin immediately as spreading it can cause air bubbles between the surfaces.


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## Redwoodz (Apr 30, 2021)

OMG a scratch!!!!


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## Kissamies (Apr 30, 2021)

Redwoodz said:


> OMG a scratch!!!!


The product is defective. Imagine putting that on a bare die.


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## House79 (Apr 30, 2021)

Exactly, that's the whole point. Scratches on ihs turned out to be meaningless but on a die itself would be probably lethal


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## BossferatuEs (May 2, 2021)

newtekie1 said:


> I'll never understand why people use this overpriced garbage.  Go get a tube of MX-4 and never have to worry about damaging components and get the same performance.


IM fan of Artic Silver, never dissapoints


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## Rolan4 (Jul 29, 2021)

Just got in same problem with my new build 11700k, Thermal grizzly kryonaut scratched  my CPU and Heatsink, contacted Grizzly support got an childish answer it OK to get scratches from they product its not effect the temperature. I was in shock no apologies no offers to change for new product. I can feel the scratches with my finger. Just never NOT TO BUY THIS CRAP FROM THIS COMPANY!!!


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## Mussels (Jul 29, 2021)

Rolan4 said:


> Just got in same problem with my new build 11700k, Thermal grizzly kryonaut scratched  my CPU and Heatsink, contacted Grizzly support got an childish answer it OK to get scratches from they product its not effect the temperature. I was in shock no apologies no offers to change for new product. I can feel the scratches with my finger. Just never NOT TO BUY THIS CRAP FROM THIS COMPANY!!!


Can you check what batch you had?


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## Space Lynx (Jul 29, 2021)

Noctua NT-H2 is all I own or use anymore. Though it has nothing to do about paste for me, I just really love Noctua as a company. Their customer service is the most impressive I have ever experienced in my life... a single email, and they shipped me an extra part I needed all the way from Austria... literally the next day with almost no hassle and no forms... not even a receipt... just me taking a picture with index card of timestamp next to my Noctua product...

Absolutely brilliant.

Noctua is love, Noctua is life ~


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## Chomiq (Jul 29, 2021)

Rolan4 said:


> Just got in same problem with my new build 11700k, Thermal grizzly kryonaut scratched  my CPU and Heatsink, contacted Grizzly support got an childish answer it OK to get scratches from they product its not effect the temperature. I was in shock no apologies no offers to change for new product. I can feel the scratches with my finger. Just never NOT TO BUY THIS CRAP FROM THIS COMPANY!!!


To be fair those micro scratches will be filled out by any thermal compound.


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## Rolan4 (Jul 29, 2021)

From this picture can see batch numbers?


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## Chomiq (Jul 29, 2021)

Rolan4 said:


> From this picture can see batch numbers?


Take this for reference:



But someone that actually had one purchased recently should confirm where the batch number is located. TG support should also tell you this.

Looks like new batches have it above the barcode:


			https://www.ixbt.com/cpu/coolers/thermal-grizzly/2016/bag-kryonaut-l.jpg


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## Rolan4 (Jul 29, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> To be fair those micro scratches will be filled out by any thermal compound.


Yes I know but why I am using any other brand and they not leave any nasty scratches as I have with Thermal Grizzly kryonaut, I can see that can be related to bad batch but why the customer reply was so unacceptable, they product damaged my new CPU and Aio



Chomiq said:


> Take this for reference:
> View attachment 210311
> But someone that actually had one purchased recently should confirm where the batch number is located. TG support should also tell you this.


This is the problem all the pictures was sent to suppor and reply back from them was just joke.
Created new thread Thread 'Grizzly kryonaut scratched my new build CPU' https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/grizzly-kryonaut-scratched-my-new-build-cpu.285041/


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## Chomiq (Jul 29, 2021)

Rolan4 said:


> Yes I know but why I am using any other brand and they not leave any nasty scratches as I have with Thermal Grizzly kryonaut, I can see that can be related to bad batch but why the customer reply was so unacceptable, they product damaged my new CPU and Aio
> 
> 
> This is the problem all the pictures was sent to suppor and reply back from them was just joke.
> Created new thread Thread 'Grizzly kryonaut scratched my new build CPU' https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/grizzly-kryonaut-scratched-my-new-build-cpu.285041/


In that case what do you expect from us?

If you have problems with their support hit them up on Twitter or any social media. Alternatively there's TG rep on TPU that was last online this monday:








						Thermal-Grizzly
					






					www.techpowerup.com
				



From my point of view TG should put a clear warning on the product page and on the packaging itself that Kryonaut can cause abrasion damage to the CPU IHS and the cooler itself. Not to mention damage to die itself when used after delidding. This would be better for both the end users and the company itself as they would avoid any hassle with issues like that.


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## Rolan4 (Jul 29, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> In that case what do you expect from us?
> 
> If you have problems with their support hit them up on Twitter or any social media. Alternatively there's TG rep on TPU that was last online this monday:
> 
> ...


Nothing just share my experience with this company and they product and protect future cpu scratches from same buyers like me who believed in a good quality product from Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut but ended with deep scratches on Cpu and Aio.


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## Caring1 (Jul 29, 2021)

Ok Karen.
We don't even know if the product was genuine, but go ahead and complain anyway.


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## Chomiq (Jul 29, 2021)

Label on your bag:



No batch number visible above barcode.

Photo from a Russian bag:



Batch number visible above barcode

@Thermal-Grizzly can you confirm the location of the Batch Number for the EU packaging of Kryonaut?


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## Mussels (Jul 29, 2021)

Found my pack in the closet, heres what mine looks like (genuine aussie seller, 1-2 years old)
The packaging is so reflective its hard to get a good photo, the only code i see is above the barcode


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## Rolan4 (Jul 29, 2021)

This product was bought 1 to 2 years ago for my 8700k, I applied its one time and forgot. Now I bought new 11700k and when I was checking my box with all the staff for the PC I found I have left Therma Grizzly kryonaut and applied it to my newly cpu the result you know. My biggest concern is will it woid my intel warranty? And thanks for all the replies just this issue with Thermal Grizzly is not what I expected.


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## Chomiq (Jul 29, 2021)

@Rolan4 What's your location? Where did you buy your KN?


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## Chrispy_ (Jul 29, 2021)

Are we looking at a fake product with no batch number or what?


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## Mussels (Jul 29, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> Are we looking at a fake product with no batch number or what?


there definitely was fakes at one point, i'll update my post with full front and back of a 'genuine' product in the hope it doesnt vary by region


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## ZoneDymo (Jul 29, 2021)

Should email this to Steve from GN, they have connections with the company and are even sponsored by them


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## skizzo (Jul 29, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Found my pack in the closet, heres what mine looks like (genuine aussie seller, 1-2 years old)
> The packaging is so reflective its hard to get a good photo, the only code i see is above the barcode




knowing how printing on components like this goes, I highly doubt that "TG-K-030-R" string is the batch code or lot code as some know it as. a lot code will pretty much always have a julian date in it somewhere to indicate the month and year and if not further, exact day and sometimes even time. which this code doesn't have any of that. the way that type of bag material is printed, it's going to make thousands of the same exact image, and by that I mean the entire bags image. These types of printers don't have the ability to sequentially change digits for example in a specific area of the image as each sequential component pass through the print application. applying a lot code would be one of the last things done before packing it into a shipping carton. the print for the lot code is applied typically at another production line with the bag fully assembled and sealed. TG-K-030-R is likely their SKU#. A printer like an continuous inkjet printer does have the ability to sequentially change numbers each fire, a requirement for sequentially numbering each product coming off the manufacturing line. Continuous inkjet ink looks much different from the type used to print the images on the bag material and there is no evidence of that continious inkjet type of ink/print anywhere on the bag. The numbers below the UPC barlines is the actual UPC code....which is technically an EAN barcode rather than UPC, which makes sense seeing it is sold in a region that uses that barcode type.  Further proof, just google that TG-K-030-R string, a ton of sales pages pop up. It's def the SKU#/product # that the OEM Thermal Grizzly uses., NOT the lotcode.

with that said, there is zero evidence of a lot code on the bag you pictured.

to be clear, putting lot codes on products is not a requirement. but any responsible manufacture would want to in order to have traceability. any issues or complaints that come in from sellers or customers, they need to have a system to know how to trace it back to what machine produced it and when. with no lot code being applied to their sold products, they must not care about having this ability to trace issues back to the source. cannot do a recall, cannot determine if additional product in warehouses made at the same time or at the same machine could be impacted. its a bad idea all around to not have a lot code. clearly not an ISO certified company that believes in quality standards

Is there any chance they put the lot code on the actual tube of thermal grease? it would make more sense for them to put it on that tube, rather than the bag. customers are very likely going to throw the bag out immediately after opening it, which would make it hard for any customer to give info back should there be a complaint. so that is why it would make more sense to put that info on the tube that actually contains and applies the thermal grease.


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## Rolan4 (Jul 29, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> @Rolan4 What's your location? Where did you buy your KN?


I am from Ireland but like I mentioned before I bought this product around 2 years ago and used once for my old system. So when I got the new 11700k I was looking in my box with all the parts and found this thermal paste so used this and got what I have. I think I bought it through ebay for some good amount of money but cheaper then from retailers , maybe its fake, maybe its bad batch I am not professional in this sort of things. Just was very disappointed when newly cpu got scratches. I know the Thermall Grizzly is good company but they need to protect there customers and deal with there problems in more polite way. Thanks all and peace to you all my friends. Good luck


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## ThrashZone (Jul 29, 2021)

Rolan4 said:


> I am from Ireland but like I mentioned before I bought this product around 2 years ago and used once for my old system. So when I got the new 11700k I was looking in my box with all the parts and found this thermal paste so used this and got what I have. I think I bought it through ebay for some good amount of money but cheaper then from retailers , maybe its fake, maybe its bad batch I am not professional in this sort of things. Just was very disappointed when newly cpu got scratches. I know the Thermall Grizzly is good company but they need to protect there customers and deal with there problems in more polite way. Thanks all and piece to you all my friends. Good luck


Hi,
Damage looks like it's legit tg product 
This is not a new issue if it didn't do damage it would be a fake product lol


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## fb020997 (Jul 29, 2021)

View attachment 514AB785-B94B-4545-850D-51D629EB14AB.webpView attachment 676B404B-7656-4D0D-AB92-BB01358D6CF7.webpView attachment 5F778167-8457-4839-9371-AF3E15672217.webp

That happened to me too. My 2700X (now sold) and waterblock (Eisblock XPX, still using it) were quite a bit scratched with the Kryonaut. The scratch near the N was the deepest, and could be clearly felt with a fingernail. That Kryonaut that was bought in sept. 2019 via Amazon. I already wrote to them a year ago, but they said that it was normal etc. And I have it in my Vega 64+waterblock, too, but I don’t have the slightest desire to open it again for checking…


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## ThrashZone (Jul 29, 2021)

Hi,
Kind of sad when a manufacture says *damage is "normal" but doesn't see fit to add a disclaimer on the package* *saying it will cause scratches/.... *so yeah large pass it just isn't worth it for 1c


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## anachron (Jul 30, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Found my pack in the closet, heres what mine looks like (genuine aussie seller, 1-2 years old)
> The packaging is so reflective its hard to get a good photo, the only code i see is above the barcode


Here is one remaining i have, bought in may from the official Thermal Grizzly store on Amazon FR. I used two others bought at the same time without issues.





skizzo said:


> knowing how printing on components like this goes, I highly doubt that "TG-K-030-R" string is the batch code or lot code as some know it as. a lot code will pretty much always have a julian date in it somewhere to indicate the month and year and if not further, exact day and sometimes even time. which this code doesn't have any of that. the way that type of bag material is printed, it's going to make thousands of the same exact image, and by that I mean the entire bags image. These types of printers don't have the ability to sequentially change digits for example in a specific area of the image as each sequential component pass through the print application. applying a lot code would be one of the last things done before packing it into a shipping carton. the print for the lot code is applied typically at another production line with the bag fully assembled and sealed. TG-K-030-R is likely their SKU#. A printer like an continuous inkjet printer does have the ability to sequentially change numbers each fire, a requirement for sequentially numbering each product coming off the manufacturing line. Continuous inkjet ink looks much different from the type used to print the images on the bag material and there is no evidence of that continious inkjet type of ink/print anywhere on the bag. The numbers below the UPC barlines is the actual UPC code....which is technically an EAN barcode rather than UPC, which makes sense seeing it is sold in a region that uses that barcode type.  Further proof, just google that TG-K-030-R string, a ton of sales pages pop up. It's def the SKU#/product # that the OEM Thermal Grizzly uses., NOT the lotcode.
> 
> with that said, there is zero evidence of a lot code on the bag you pictured.
> 
> ...



The packaging indicate that there is a "Certificate of origin inside", maybe the lot code is on it.

Edit : opened my package, there is indeed a code that you can check on the officiel webside inside it, it looks like a product key with 4 groups of 4 numbers/letters.

Edit again : here is the result after testing the "product key" on thermal-grizzly website :


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 30, 2021)

I'm going to have to go against six pages?!.

Ah well, what damage, they're light scratches you won't ever see, just repaste with some Normal stuff and crack on with life dramma free.


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## freeagent (Jul 30, 2021)

Seems AMD IHS is a bit soft compared to Intel.. high mounting pressure can cause some imperfections.. I’ve seen it myself too.


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## phanbuey (Jul 30, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Seems AMD IHS is a bit soft compared to Intel.. high mounting pressure can cause some imperfections.. I’ve seen it myself too.


My 10850K IHS looks exactly like that from kyonaut -- it's definitely the paste.


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## ThrashZone (Jul 30, 2021)

Hi,
And some question if the paste fake or not lol

Funniest part is TG doesn't even mark the tube for which TG product it is so it's easy to swap paste for their cheapest for their most expensive  lol


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## freeagent (Jul 30, 2021)

Just curious about that code.. what is to stop someone from copying that number and reusing it? Is that a one time use number? What if I bought a used tube and typed the number in to see if it was legit but it had been entered before, would it come up as fake?


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## phanbuey (Jul 30, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> And some question if the paste fake or not lol
> 
> Funniest part is TG doesn't even mark the tube for which TG product it is so it's easy to swap paste for their cheapest for their most expensive  lol



Makes a lot of sense actually... the tube that pitted my CPU had temps that were easily 5-7C worse than another tube of TG I had that didn't pit.

I had both at the same time and it took me like 10 mountings to figure out what was going on.

The damage is purely cosmetic (more pissed about the block than the CPU tbh)  but there was a very noticeable performance difference between the pastes


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## ThrashZone (Jul 30, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> Makes a lot of sense actually... the tube that pitted my CPU had temps that were easily 5-7C worse than another tube of TG I had that didn't pit.
> 
> I had both at the same time and it took me like 10 mountings to figure out what was going on.
> 
> The damage is purely cosmetic (more pissed about the block than the CPU tbh)  but there was a very noticeable performance difference between the pastes


Hi,
Yeah if you have a rock between the cooler and cpu it's not going to make good contact.

But I've used hydronaut too still pricey but tubes are identical can't tell one from another
Never seen their cheapest paste but I'd bet they use the same black tube lol


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## anachron (Jul 30, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Just curious about that code.. what is to stop someone from copying that number and reusing it? Is that a one time use number? What if I bought a used tube and typed the number in to see if it was legit but it had been entered before, would it come up as fake?



The check require both the code and the reseller name to match (actual reseller, not Amazon). So someone can not juste copy the code and sell it elsewhere or it will not match anymore.


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## Mussels (Jul 31, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Just curious about that code.. what is to stop someone from copying that number and reusing it? Is that a one time use number? What if I bought a used tube and typed the number in to see if it was legit but it had been entered before, would it come up as fake?


i assume if they see one coded entered thousands of times, they'd blacklist it


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