# The Best Gaming Rigs for around $1,500.  Your advice



## strafter (Mar 27, 2010)

Hey guys,  I am looking at putting together a new gaming rig and wanted to get everyones advice on it.  I have been using my old rig for 3.5 years now and decided it's finally time for a total overhaul.

Here is what I am looking at, let me know if I am on the wrong track.

*EDIT:  I am Keeping this list as up to date as possible when good advice comes in*
*RED choices denote what I think are the most feasible current options*
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Processor
Intel i7-930 @ $285
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202&cm_re=i7-_-19-115-202-_-Product
OR 
Intel i5 @$270
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115218



MoBo
ASRock X58 Extreme LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard @ $160
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157163
OR
*Accepting Opinions!!*



Graphic Options
_ATI_


[*]*1x* SAPPHIRE 100282-3SR Radeon HD 5850 (Cypress Pro) 1GB 256-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card w/ Eyefinity - Retail @ $280  Buying a 2nd one year down the road
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102884
*1x* Radeon HD 5970 (Hemlock) 2GB 512 (256 x 2)-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Dual GPU Onboard CrossFire Video Card w/ Eyefinity - Retail @ $650
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103088
_NVIDIA_


[*]1x PNY XLR8 VCGGTX470XPB GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card - Retail @350
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133318&cm_re=fermi-_-14-133-318-_-Product
Researching DX11 NVID cards.....



Memory
CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMX6GX3M3C1600C7 - Retail @ $190
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145286



Hard Drive
*2x* Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive @ 120 each
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136533
OR
*2x* Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EARS 1TB 5400 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive @ $80 each
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136490



Power
Tuniq Ripper PSU-RIP1000W-BK 1000W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail @$100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817611009



Optical Drives
*2x* SAMSUNG 24X @ $25 each
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151216



Misc
_Case, fans, and heatsink(s) (do I need one for the processor?)_
$80

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Total Price: $~1500

I am a little over budget, but am also not going to be purchasing for another month or so so I am assuming the price will be driven down towards $15-1600 by then.

So some of my questions are

Am I bottlenecking or putting too much towards any of the pieces above?
Am I skimping on anything?
What Graphics cards would you guys recommend I go with?
I have not really researched MoBo's or Memory in a long while, are my selections good?
Would you change any of the pieces out for something else?

Also what is your guys opinion on a good time to buy.  I have heard rumors about the new NVIDIA line-up hitting the street soon as well as the new i9 processors.  Should I wait more than a month to purchase.  My computer is about at the end of its life, so I'd rather not wait, but if I am going to be buying overpriced equipment I would rather wait.

Thanks guys and I look forward to your help.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Mar 27, 2010)

Strafter - All looks good with the exception of the mb...I know nothing of it. You might also consider an i5 chip. I have been experimenting with the i5 670 lately gaming online at 4.6GHz and the results are promising. These chips overclock like demons with little heat output. I use a single 5870 in battle. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115218

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188056


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## Deleted member 74752 (Mar 27, 2010)

If you decide to stick with the 920, I have used this mb and memory and highly recommend.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188049

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227424


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## r9 (Mar 27, 2010)

I would skip Asrock motherboard and there is no point of getting DX10 card.


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## strafter (Mar 27, 2010)

r9 said:


> I would skip Asrock motherboard and there is no point of getting DX10 card.


I didn't even notice the NVIDIA's were DX10, I just picked the best NVIDIA cards on newegg.  Are there any NVIDIA DX11 cards on the market right now?



rickss69 said:


> If you decide to stick with the 920, I have used this mb and memory and highly recommend.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188049
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227424


rick, those look like good picks, but they are obviously more pricey and I am trying to work at a $1,500 budget.  Is it worth the extra $80 to go with a better MoBo?  Also as far as the i5 vs i7, they are the same price.  So I just kind of assumed the i7 was a better choice.  Was I wrong.


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 27, 2010)

get the i7 930 - the 920 is old & the 930 is much more overclockable for the the exact same price (since the 930 is bought in to replace the 920)


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## Fourstaff (Mar 27, 2010)

i7 9xx runs on triple channel memory (read: 3x?gb sticks not 4 or 2)

For power, I would go corsair, its tried and tested and everybody likes it. 750w is more than enough I believe.

I find the lack of an aftermarket cooler distubing. Get TRUE, megahalem or something like that, the intel 9xx is going to be HOT. 

Don't skimp on case, you need a lot of air. Get something like antec 900 or HAF932 (or similar sized ones) to ensure that all the i7 is cooled properly.


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## Fishymachine (Mar 27, 2010)

1.you could take a look at microcenter (they've often had 920 @200 and 930 @230)
2.due to some bottleneck (bandwith,ROP,maybe even driver) a 5870 is equal to a 5850 @same clocks
3.350$ is way to much for a GTX285
4.overvolt and OC to core 1000+ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127500&cm_re=5850-_-14-127-500-_-Product
5.http://www.amd.com/us/products/desk...s/ati-radeon-hd-5850-system-requirements.aspx ...750W brand will do 
6.you need tri-channel,try the lowest latencies kit you can afford http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145286 (anything above 1600 MHz is silly,especially in tri-chanell)


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## JrRacinFan (Mar 27, 2010)

@strafter
What max res is your display going to be?  

@r9

Asrock X58 Extreme has to be the most bang for buck in the world of 1366.

@fourstaff

Not true, they can run dual channel just fine. Also, you would be surprised with proper fan configuration what you could do even with a cheap case.

@rickss69

i5 750 or above, wouldn't even both with the i5 6XX series.


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## Fishymachine (Mar 27, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> If you decide to stick with the 920, I have used this mb and memory and highly recommend.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188049
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227424



DDR3 2000 CAS10 
somebody didn't do his homework


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## afw (Mar 27, 2010)

If you are looking for a gaming rig I think this would do ... 






and 2 x Hd 5850 (reference design can use sw to OC) @ $300 each --> http://www.provantage.com/sapphire-technology-100282-2sr~7SAPP040.htm

Total is almost $1500 ....

EDIT: and if you have more money ... get a decent cooler so that you can OC the Processor and also get Extra Ram if needed ... 

EDIT: The i7 920 and the i7 860 performances are similar ....http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3641&p=1 ...


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## Deleted member 74752 (Mar 27, 2010)

Fishymachine said:


> DDR3 2000 CAS10
> somebody didn't do his homework



I have about 12 sticks of it here atm..I assure you I have done plenty of "homework" with that ram. (HWBot)


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## Fourstaff (Mar 27, 2010)

JrRacinFan said:


> @fourstaff
> Not true, they can run dual channel just fine. Also, you would be surprised with proper fan configuration what you could do even with a cheap case.



I thought tri channel is the optimum one?

And about the case, you are right, proper fan config do wonders. I am more concerned about the fact that his megas cannot fit.


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## Fishymachine (Mar 27, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> I have about 12 sticks of it here atm..I assure you I have done plenty of "homework" with that ram. (HWBot)



1600 cas7 vs 2000 cas 9 in normal air cooled gaming rig or OC under phase change/DICE/LN2?


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## Deleted member 74752 (Mar 27, 2010)

Fishymachine said:


> 1600 cas7 vs 2000 cas 9 in normal air cooled gaming rig or OC under phase change/DICE/LN2?



All of the above.  http://hwbot.org/community/user/rickss69?tab=submissions


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## exodusprime1337 (Mar 27, 2010)

Don't jump all over me.. but why not amd??  Believe me i don't dispute intels insanely powerful chips.. but a really good gaming rig could be had for less that 1500.  heres what i would buy. 

phenom II 965c3  188.99

m4a79t deluxe 179.99

corsair dominator ddr3 1600 224.99

HIS 5870 419.99

bfg 1200 watt psu 209.99

coolermaster haf 932 159.99

western digital caviar black 119.99


all together the whole rig is 1503.92..  Sure it might not be absolutely as fast as an intel rig, but it'll chew up any game you throw at it.  and for just about 1500 right around your budget if i understand correctly. 

you may also want to change some thigns.. there are nice motherboards out there, and the crosshair 4 comes out soon.  also the ram is a bit extreme but nice just the same, and the 1200 watt psu is probably unnessesary, but just wanted to put something in for the 1500 range for you.


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## Fishymachine (Mar 27, 2010)

aham so no real life benches..http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=3589&p=5...found better example once...and exodusprime1337...5870 doesn't scale well(R5850 would be better) and every PSU above 750 is overkill,but yeah a Dragon would work fine

here it is ) http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=3577&p=2
1600 Cas 6 beats 2133 CAS 7(let alone 10)


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## strafter (Mar 27, 2010)

Awesome advise so far guys, I'm now looking at 3 x 2 Memory, a possible Video Card Switch (Are there any Nvidias out on the market that are competitive?), MoBo switch, and maybe a processor switch to i5

@ Jr I am probably going to be running 1650x1050 for now, I am running a 3 year old Samsung monitor and don't think it supports any higher, but my next step will be to go up to a 2560 and dual monitor with my current one

So any opinions on these items
- i7 930 v i5
- AsRock x58 mobo
- Which graphics card maximizes my performance at lowest cost
- Whats a good cost appropriate set of RAM out there?  I am looking at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145286
      -  Is Cas 7 vs Cas 9 worth the extra $40?

Also, I have never OC'd any of my gear before (mainly just because I haven't had the time to learn how to do it), but I would like to OC in the future I think.  Soon I am probably going to make a thread about OCing and seeing if I can get some help on that, but thats a topic for another thread.

I also want to stick with the 1000watt supply just because I am thinking that eventually I am going to be running SLI-3 on this and will definitely need the power for the 2 additional cards.  Is that a bad assumption?

Thanks guys


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## Deleted member 74752 (Mar 27, 2010)

Just an example...






If you want a dynomite game rig and have some fun later with overclocking, this is the ticket. Been playing FEAR online with this configuration with only a 9500 GT and just about own everyone lol.


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 27, 2010)

strafter said:


> Awesome advise so far guys, I'm now looking at 3 x 2 Memory, a possible Video Card Switch (Are there any Nvidias out on the market that are competitive?), MoBo switch, and maybe a processor switch to i5
> 
> @ Jr I am probably going to be running 1650x1050 for now, I am running a 3 year old Samsung monitor and don't think it supports any higher, but my next step will be to go up to a 2560 and dual monitor with my current one
> 
> ...



the i5 750 in most cases can be overclocked to over i7 870 speeds providing you have the right hardware - but you still lose out on the extra threads etc etc. multitasking with the i5 will be better then stock but wont be as effective as the i7 which is Quad Core.


.:Edit:.

as for the PSU - if you play on running 2 GTX470's or 480's - you might need moar wattage


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## strafter (Mar 27, 2010)

Everyone keeps saying that i5 can be overclocked to be better than the i7.  Does that mean that if you Overclocked both chips the i5 would be better, or just that the i5 can be overclocked past the i7 stock?

How much wattage do you think is needed for each additional GPU?

And I want this thing to last for 2 or 3 years running things on the very best settings.  I am not really concerned with how it runs todays games.  I could probably build a system for $500 today that would run all the games out today on high settings, but that isn't the point.

Also, keeping the future in mind, wouldn't the quad core i7 end up outperforming the dual core i5 in games eventually?  Won't games start to take advantage of hyperthreading and 4+ cores within the next year or two?


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## Deleted member 74752 (Mar 27, 2010)

I will let the cat out of the bag and reveal my upcoming build. Initial testing says it will be a dynamo!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115218

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128421

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102883

http://tv.hexus.net/show/2010/03/CeBIT_2010_It_s_not_size_that_matters_with_the_Silverstone_SG07

All this on air @ 4.5GHz for a Gamer and 24/7 pc.


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## exodusprime1337 (Mar 27, 2010)

Fishymachine said:


> aham so no real life benches..http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=3589&p=5...found better example once...and exodusprime1337...5870 doesn't scale well(R5850 would be better) and every PSU above 750 is overkill,but yeah a Dragon would work fine
> 
> here it is ) http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=3577&p=2
> 1600 Cas 6 beats 2133 CAS 7(let alone 10)



in which ways do you mean doesn't scale.. i think in a way the 5850 is very close but at higher resolutions i always see the 5870 pull a bit further away.  and overclocked.. say from 775 to 875 on the 5850 and 850 to 950 i still see a simalar performance increase with the 5870.. usually about 4-10%... just a thought that.. i was just looking at the best i could cram into 1500 dollars.  To be honest i have pretty much the exact same rig i listed, but in an obsidian 800d and with crappier ram and a 4.0Ghz oc.. and i can tell you, this thing chews games apart every step of the way.


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## strafter (Mar 27, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> I will let the cat out of the bag and reveal my upcoming build. Initial testing says it will be a dynamo!
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115218
> 
> ...



What kind of life-time are you expecting on that rig?


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## Deleted member 74752 (Mar 27, 2010)

Years...you won't kill one of these chips.


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 27, 2010)

you wont kill them so long as you got a good cooler, decent airflow inside your case & dont overvolt them too much


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## Deleted member 74752 (Mar 27, 2010)

4.5GHz on a i5 is like 4GHz on a 920 except you can do it on air with the i5.


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## strafter (Mar 27, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> Years...you won't kill one of these chips.



Well I am not talking about killing it so much as when does it start having to run games on low to medium settings.  It sounds to me like that system would last 2 years.  Is that accurate?

Also I watched that video, how are you planning to OC with such tight quarters and overheating problems?

Also, you guys keep talking about airflow and cooling, any tips on that?  Any secrets?  I am assuming you should look for a power supply with detachable cables, but what other secrets are there?  And what are some good products?  I usually just use stock parts as far as heatsinks and fans.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Mar 27, 2010)

Have you not been paying attention? These chips don't produce the heat like a 920 will. All the heat from the 5870 will be exhausted from the case. I assure you this has been thought out. Just thought you might want to consider as it is easy and loads of fun to overclock...and the quads beat it at nothing in gaming.


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## brandonwh64 (Mar 27, 2010)

I would pull the nvidia cards you have listed off cause of the overpriced DX10. add fermi cards if you want a nvidia option


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## strafter (Mar 28, 2010)

rickss69 said:


> Have you not been paying attention? These chips don't produce the heat like a 920 will. All the heat from the 5870 will be exhausted from the case. I assure you this has been thought out. Just thought you might want to consider as it is easy and loads of fun to overclock...and the quads beat it at nothing in gaming.



But what about future gaming.  I don't want to be short sited.  Devs must soon jump on the hyperthreading train right?  What happens when games take advantage of every core?  

I mean it doesn't matter what rig I make.  Any rig over $1000 is guaranteed to play any game on ultra high for at least 1-2 years.  So when we think about a gaming rig we have to think 2 years down the line as far as longevity goes.  And I believe in 2 years games will be utilizing hyperthreading.  So will the 920 beat out the i5 if all cores are utilized?


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## Deleted member 74752 (Mar 28, 2010)

Maybe, but I live for the here and now...


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 28, 2010)

stick with the 5970's they consume less power then the GTX470/480 & perform a little better too. unless you are gonna be folding...


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## strafter (Mar 28, 2010)

FreedomEclipse said:


> stick with the 5970's they consume less power then the GTX470/480 & perform a little better too. unless you are gonna be folding...



I was really hoping to stay away from ATI... I guess I don't really have a reason, it's just I got really pissed with them over dropping the x1950 to legacy driver support and thus F(*^&#ing me over with Bad Company 2.  Now I can't even play BFBC2 because of ATI's crappy driver support!

But I guess it's too much to ask to see a machine run more than 3 years....  SIGH

Anyway, what about the new NVIDIA cards?  And what about the i9's? When to they hit the streets.  When do you guys think the optimal time to buy is going to be as far as all the parts and pieces?

I'd like to have a computer in July at the latest, but obviously price aside, I'd rather have a rig as soon as possible.  So where is the sweet sweet balance?  Opinions?


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## brandonwh64 (Mar 28, 2010)

Wait? they have 10.2 drivers for the x1950?

http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Legacy/Pages/radeonaiw_xp.aspx?type=2.4.1&product=2.4.1.3.13&lang=English


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 28, 2010)

strafter said:


> I was really hoping to stay away from ATI... I guess I don't really have a reason, it's just I got really pissed with them over dropping the x1950 to legacy driver support and thus F(*^&#ing me over with Bad Company 2.  Now I can't even play BFBC2 because of ATI's crappy driver support!
> 
> But I guess it's too much to ask to see a machine run more than 3 years....  SIGH
> 
> ...



well you can go with the 470/480 if you wish - just lettin you know they probably wont be bang for buck nor the most efficient cards compared to ATi's offerings. but its your call. & I apologise but 'hating' on ATi because they dropped X1950 support is silly & if thats your reason for not buying ATi cards then you are a fool as its a really petty reason to just say you wont touch ATi again (no disrespect to you) the X1950 is an old card - they had to drop support some time & the same thing happends everywhere else so its pointless to cry about it.

-----

'Gulftowns' however will be released in Q2 2010 according to fudzilla. no exact date yet.


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## strafter (Mar 28, 2010)

Yea... but you go out and buy Bad Company 2 when it says it is supported and sit down for opening night all excited to play it and then have it utterly and completely FAIL....   That does something to a man, makes him make rash decisions and say stuff he doesnt mean.

I know it is stupid, it is actually DICE EA's fault and I have said I am never buying another EA game, but hah, that one aint gonna hold up.  The minute BF3 comes out I'll be out in line at 12 am to get it.. 

And I am still open on the topic.  What do you think the premium is in dollars if you wanted the EXACT SAME performance from an ATI card and an NVIDIA card?  $50?  $100?

Also what about the 3rd party goodies?  Doesn't Nvidia have a whole line of like 3D gizmos and a lot of research and development prototype stuff they are looking into?  What about ATI?



brandonwh64 said:


> Wait? they have 10.2 drivers for the x1950?
> 
> http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Legacy/Pages/radeonaiw_xp.aspx?type=2.4.1&product=2.4.1.3.13&lang=English


When I download that and try to install those drivers I get nothing....  It is another common problem a lot of users of the 1950 have.  Another point out of ATI's favor.  Maybe I am missing something, but I have heavily researched the topic.


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 28, 2010)

I didnt understand what you meant about the premium for ATi/Nvidia - please repeat in engrish. are you talking about the price premium to get 470/480 to perform as good as ATi's top cards??

---

have you tried 3rd party 'optimised' drivers?? Omega. DNA & NGO are a few of the names that do them


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## JrRacinFan (Mar 28, 2010)

Just my .02 on the vid card talk. Go with a 5770 or 5850, best bang for buck IMO. Unless you plan on F@H, then GTX275 or GTX470.


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## strafter (Mar 28, 2010)

FreedomEclipse said:


> I didnt understand what you meant about the premium for ATi/Nvidia - please repeat in engrish. are you talking about the price premium to get 470/480 to perform as good as ATi's top cards??
> 
> ---
> 
> have you tried 3rd party 'optimised' drivers?? Omega. DNA & NGO are a few of the names that do them



What I mean is, you said the best ATI cards outperform the best NVIDIA.  So let's say you have 2 comparable cards that would give you the same performance.  One from NVID one from ATI.  How much more would I expect to pay for an NVIDIA card.  And what exactly are you paying for when you buy NVIDIA?  Anything, or is it just marked up because they advertise the hell outta it and its on every game "The way it's meant to be played"?

On the other part, I have heard of Omega Drivers, and they work slightly better, but still crash, and they don't play well with the rest of my games, nor are they updated really so I can't use them, what are the other ones you've listed, I never heard of those.  Are there any other 3rd party Radeon drivers out there that might be able to solve my problem?


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 28, 2010)

ah - read some GTX 470/480 reviews there are enough of them floating around already. as Jr said  - a 5850 is still amazing bang for buck but doesnt perform close to the 470/480.

asside from CUDA, PhysX & of course folding asside from that nothing much (unless im missing something) - your paying for the usual getup 

but with ATi there is more features such as eyefinity & also lower power consumption.

& the rest I dont really know about - I only read the benchmark results & power consumption/noise charts.

----

im not too sure about solving your problesm but NGO & DNA as well as Omega have been on the driver scene for a very long time. Ive used Omega drivers back in the early days but I have always stuck with the official drivers - I cant garantee that the 3rd party drivers will fix your problems but its worth a try as they are usually the ones that will keep offering drivers even though ATi/Nvidia have stopped.

just remember to run driversweeper after each uninstall


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## Fishymachine (Mar 28, 2010)

I noticed something last night...you guys are all saying he should put the second HD5850/GTX470 on a PCI-E x4...and as for scale http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/EAH_5850_TOP_DirectCu/31.html
a 5850 @850 core performs exactly like a stock 5870


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## strafter (Mar 28, 2010)

Fishymachine said:


> I noticed something last night...you guys are all saying he should put the second HD5850/GTX470 on a PCI-E x4...and as for scale http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/EAH_5850_TOP_DirectCu/31.html
> a 5850 @850 core performs exactly like a stock 5870



Sorry, you'll have to forgive my nubness here, what does this mean?  Again I am just an infant when it comes to OC'ing, I have much to learn, but I'd like to start here at the TPU Forums! 

EDIT:  After further review I understand the second part about the EAH 5850 performing equal with the 5870, but I still don't understand about the first part.  Everyone keeps referring to scale, does that just refer to a cards OC potential?


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## strafter (Mar 28, 2010)

How exactly do 2 GPU's scale?  What I am asking is when looking at 
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/EAH_5850_TOP_DirectCu/31.html
obviously I can't just take the readings from 2 5850's and add them together can I?  So how do I compare 2 5850's to a 5970?


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 28, 2010)

strafter said:


> How exactly do 2 GPU's scale?  What I am asking is when looking at
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/EAH_5850_TOP_DirectCu/31.html
> obviously I can't just take the readings from 2 5850's and add them together can I?  So how do I compare 2 5850's to a 5970?



well it obviously falls short against the 5970 - after all the 5970 is a top range card compared to the 5850 which is more mid-range.

its probably also more dependant on the games you play. if you are a heavy gamer or not & how big your monitor is


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## strafter (Mar 28, 2010)

FreedomEclipse said:


> well it obviously falls short against the 5970 - after all the 5970 is a top range card compared to the 5850 which is more mid-range.
> 
> its probably also more dependant on the games you play. if you are a heavy gamer or not & how big your monitor is



Yea but I am talking about 2 cards vs 1 card.  Why would they obviously fall short.  I mean price-wise (2) 5850's are roughly the same as (1) 5970, so which set-up gives you the most bang for your buck.


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 28, 2010)

strafter said:


> Yea but I am talking about 2 cards vs 1 card.  Why would they obviously fall short.  I mean price-wise (2) 5850's are roughly the same as (1) 5970, so which set-up gives you the most bang for your buck.



Im not familiar with USD prices but the 5970 would be faster because you dont need to run a crossfirebridge to link the cards up. (unless you plan to get 2 5970's) from what reviews a 5970 is just a little bit faster then 2 5850's - a gap that can be closed if you can overlock the 5850's.

I think the 5850 is the clear winner here - but there are some games where the 5850 CF doesnt fair so well agains the 5970

here are some reviews from Hexus & Guru3d


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## strafter (Mar 28, 2010)

Great reviews.  Whats clear after reading through those is that 5850's Crossfired almost no matter what game it is (other than Crysis Warhead which was an anomaly) always outperform the beefier single 5970.  And at the current pricing scheme's you can also get 2 5850's for $50 less than a single 5970.  So as far as bang for your buck goes in terms of a single 5970 vs double 5850's my money's on the 5850XF.  Anyone see any flaw to this?

My question is do you guys think a single 5850 is sufficient to run any game out there for the next year on the very highest of settings with no visible issues?  I am not talking benchmarks or F@H or any of that, just pure gaming fun.  My plan is to build the computer with 1 5850 if possible then purchase the 2nd and 3rd later down the line when they are cheaper and I actually need them.  Good idea?


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 28, 2010)

I think that once the drivers mature for the the 5970 - it will really start to pull away from 2 CF 5850's

I think with the i5/i7/i9 processor - you can easily get the most out of a single 5850 but no one can tell how the card will hold up for year - If the industry release games with higher GPU requirements then its all a bit of a gamble. best you can do is overclock that 5850 & hope for the best. similar to what im doing with my 4870's  overclocked & still getting excellent frames on bad company 2 with everything set to high.

---

the 5850 will run every current game perfectly with the exception of Crysis.


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## Fishymachine (Mar 28, 2010)

Well P55/H55/H57 have 1 PCI-E x16 and 1 PCI-E x4(except for MSI trinergy,or something like that) and that means that a dual card rig will perform worse than one having a X58 (with two 16 lane slots) board (which only supports i7 9xx)
Again in favor of 5850 Crossfire,and to be more precise either the Asus from the above review or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...27500&cm_re=5850-_-14-127-500-_-Product,since these come overvolting BIOS
And as for CF scaling...I might get some scolding for this.. both Crossfire and SLI are basically "mirror" techniques,that's why they scale to at the most 180% of the worst card...and since a 5850(especially an OC'ed one) loses on a x4 slot as much as 25%,the hole rig should have 75% of the framerates of a X58 
There is also Lucid Hydra,which,is still experimental to be honest,divides the workload but I haven't really seen any boards and they should be very expensive and that could work with a Lynfield...but that's a different story,and if a recall well Price Charming gets eaten in it


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## strafter (Mar 28, 2010)

@ Fishy

Yea I think you just sold me, I am definitely looking at the X58 board (probably the ASRock for best affordability) and a i7 930.  Correct me if I am wrong but the x58 boards have 3 x16 slots correct?

I think I am going to go with the i7 930, the X58 and a single 5850 for the first 6-12 months and then an additional 5850 after the first 6-12 months and a 3rd 5850 at around year 2.  I think after research that will give the best gaming performance over time at the MOST cost effective point.  Anyone see this to be incorrect?


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## Fishymachine (Mar 29, 2010)

most do,even dough some work x16-x8-x8 in tri-fire,but that's still good enough 
930...agree,higher multiplier is better despite similar overclock
and yep get a twin frozr or a cucore now and another later on
and as for brand...if I'm not mistaking ASRock is the cheap division of Asus...so seems decent enough...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ..._re=asrock_x58_extreme-_-13-157-163-_-Product
for RAM the Corsair from earlier seem good,unless some discount came along the way


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 30, 2010)

strafter said:


> I think I am going to go with the i7 930, the X58 and a single 5850 for the first 6-12 months and then an additional 5850 after the first 6-12 months and a 3rd 5850 at around year 2.  I think after research that will give the best gaming performance over time at the MOST cost effective point.  Anyone see this to be incorrect?



from what ive seen in benchmarks against a GTX 470 & 480. Id stay that you you got the extra cash. why not invest in 1 powerful card instead of going crossfire the 5970 currently punches way above the 480. in most tests - even in crysis.

If you do get a 5970, not only will it save a bit of power, it will also create less heat, minimise the likely hood of 'un-optimised' problematic crossfire drivers & still give you excellent performance for a long time to come.

it boils down to how much you really need that sort of performance though.

heres another review that makes a good read if you got the time check out the 5970's performance, the heat & power consumption of the 480.


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## deaffob (Mar 30, 2010)

holy crap? here I was thinking 650 for 5970 is too much but it's now 699 at newegg! Def go for cheaper 2X 5850! BTW unless you need all those HDD space, buy 1 HDD and 1 SDD imo.


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## Fishymachine (Mar 30, 2010)

why not 5970...because you can't OC to 1000 core and in 6 months time a second 5850 will be as cheap as dirt


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## Socratus (Mar 30, 2010)

deaffob said:


> holy crap? here I was thinking 650 for 5970 is too much but it's now 699 at newegg! Def go for cheaper 2X 5850! BTW unless you need all those HDD space, buy 1 HDD and 1 SDD imo.



Google.com/products in your hands 
625$ W/Shipping ASUS HD5970 Voltage Tweak Edition
http://www.provantage.com/asus-eah5970g2dis2gd5~7ASU916V.htm


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## strafter (Mar 30, 2010)

Yea I just think the 5970 isnt really the best route.  First of all I will get a whole bunch of 'useless power'  Here's what I mean.  I can buy a 5970 for $625 (thanks Socratus ) and play every game for the next 2 or 3 years on high settings.  OR I can buy one 5850 for $275 and play all the games out today on super high settings for 1 year or maybe more, and than buy another one at $175 or less and end up with a better or equal performance output as the 5970 and then at year 3 I can either buy a 3rd for 5850 for NOTHING practically.  The 5850 option gives me the perfect gaming over time output and I can eventually buy 3 5850's for less than the price I would pay for a 5970 today.

Are there ANY faults with this logic?

If you look at the front page I am updating it to my most current specs, should be updated within 10 minutes, let me know what you think of my most current build.  It is going to be a 930 with one initial 5850 and 6 gigs ram.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 31, 2010)

Why not wait until next month and see a review on an AMD x6?


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## strafter (Mar 31, 2010)

I am not quite hammered out on the MoBo yet.  Does anyone know any reason why the ASRock ISN'T a good choice?  I mean I am no MoBo guru like some guys out there, to me it looks like it has all the right stuff.

It has 3 PCI x16 which is the most important.

My only concerns are the audio and the storage options see below

Storage Devices
PATA	1 x ATA133 IDE connector (supports 2 x IDE devices)
SATA 3Gb/s	6
SATA RAID	0/1/5/10 Matrix RAID

Does that mean my 6GB/s harddrives I have selected are useless?  And is this a big deal or not?

Onboard Audio
Audio Chipset	Realtek ALC890
Audio Channels	8 Channels

Is this a decent on board audio set-up?

As always thanks for your expert help guys you are the best!


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## strafter (Mar 31, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Why not wait until next month and see a review on an AMD x6?



Ok I'll bite and show my ignorance here, what is the AMD x6?  Ok ok I know it is their new processor, but does anyone know how it is going to compete with the i-series?  Prices?  Release date?


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 31, 2010)

Next month. Top end is $295. Who knows how it will fair. Thats why I said wait


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 31, 2010)

Id still be fairly sceptical about AMDs processors to date - Im not saying they cant suddenly turnout this amazing processor that will finally win them back some of the market share - but if the previous processors are anything to go by & also by intels progress AMD have to pray to many gods. as always AMD must remain competitive but with Intels agressive price cutting that will be very difficult.

so yeah - expect better then AMDs current processor - but not much greater. I doubt they will suddenly finally come up with an answer to the Core 2 series overnight. but who am i to judge.

it would be fucking amazing if they rolled out a processor that could really compete with the i5's & i7's so people dont feel the need to buy into AMD on a whim because AMDs processors genuinely perform better like the good old days when AMD64's were kicking the P4's ass.

if not - price cut should be pretty nice


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## strafter (Mar 31, 2010)

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-470-480-review/35

Just read this great article from Guru.  I am going to have to really put my thinking cap on as far as the 470 vs the 5850 scenario goes.  It seems that the 470 outperforms the 5850 in most games and that it has some tricks up its sleeves as well with PHYSX and CUDA.  Obviously it is coming at a cost premium, but since I have decided to just go with 1 card out the gate I am thinking possibly I could afford it.  What do you guys think?  Is the 470 worth it?

EDIT:  BUT at $350 would I end up just bumping it up another $40 and go with the 5870 which crushes the 470.... ?


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 31, 2010)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Id still be fairly sceptical about AMDs processors to date - Im not saying they cant suddenly turnout this amazing processor that will finally win them back some of the market share - but if the previous processors are anything to go by & also by intels progress AMD have to pray to many gods. as always AMD must remain competitive but with Intels agressive price cutting that will be very difficult.
> 
> so yeah - expect better then AMDs current processor - but not much greater. I doubt they will suddenly finally come up with an answer to the Core 2 series overnight. but who am i to judge.
> 
> ...


Well he wants a gaming PC and AMD as a whole is a cheaper platform. Not by much anymore but still cheaper. For gaming AMD does a GREAT job. Just as good as any Intel made. Also I wouldnt be surprised if the new x6 tied the i7 in most things. However I doubt it will beat it.


strafter said:


> http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-470-480-review/35
> 
> Just read this great article from Guru.  I am going to have to really put my thinking cap on as far as the 470 vs the 5850 scenario goes.  It seems that the 470 outperforms the 5850 in most games and that it has some tricks up its sleeves as well with PHYSX and CUDA.  Obviously it is coming at a cost premium, but since I have decided to just go with 1 card out the gate I am thinking possibly I could afford it.  What do you guys think?  Is the 470 worth it?
> 
> EDIT:  BUT at $350 would I end up just bumping it up another $40 and go with the 5870 which crushes the 470.... ?



Um a 5850 is a MUCH better buy than the 470.


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## deaffob (Mar 31, 2010)

I don't think it's worth it. If you wanna pay some premium, go triple 480 or 2X5890. Personally I would just go with a 5850 and get another in the future. I'd save a lot of money that way. No matter what you buy right now, it'll be medium-end soon anyway.

@FreedomEclipse AMD CPUs' strong point is their price/performance ratio. 965E is just as good as any i7. Synthetic benches don't mean much in gaming. i7s are just little bit better. Their top-end is 300? What about intel's top-end? $1200 I'll just laugh at anyone who buy that kind cpu.


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## mastrdrver (Mar 31, 2010)

Since you main point is gaming, you will not see a difference between AMD and Intel. You also won't see a difference between 4.5Ghz and 3.33Ghz as long as you have a quad minimum at your resolution.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

On the 5970 thing, don't do it. I've been down that road with a 4870x2. You will get better clocks and the gpus will run cooler with 2 cards instead or 1.

The real AMD vs Intel question is how much do you want to pay for your 6 core cpu? 1366 is required and I think the 970 is suppose to be the cheapest at ~$600. AMD will get you a BE for ~$300 plus you can spend the extra coin on one of those nice 890FX boards to get your 16x/16x Crossfire action on.

On motherboards, spend the money and get something good. The old saying "you get what your pay for" is true when it comes to those cheaper high end boards. I've had 3 Asus Intel boards (2x 775s and 1x 1366), 2 Gigabyte AMDs, and 1 MSI AMD board. I want to try out a AMD Asus board just to confirm it, but would spend the money extra money on a Gigabyte board any day but (assuming here based on Intel experience) would rather have a Asus board given the option. While the two Gigabyte boards clock very well, the components can be twitchy sometimes on them. Never had this problem on any of my Asus boards but would like to eventually get an AMD one just to make sure. Don't get me wrong, the Gigabyte boards have been very good almost all the time. Its just those few times that I've had problems, I've never have experienced that on an Asus board.


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## strafter (Mar 31, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Well he wants a gaming PC and AMD as a whole is a cheaper platform. Not by much anymore but still cheaper. For gaming AMD does a GREAT job. Just as good as any Intel made. Also I wouldnt be surprised if the new x6 tied the i7 in most things. However I doubt it will beat it.





mastrdrver said:


> Since you main point is gaming, you will not see a difference between AMD and Intel. You also won't see a difference between 4.5Ghz and 3.33Ghz as long as you have a quad minimum at your resolution.
> 
> Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.


Sorry, I've been outta the game a while, why is AMD good for gaming but not other things?



TheMailMan78 said:


> Um a 5850 is a MUCH better buy than the 470.


Why is this?  I mean dollars aside, because the 470 is about $75 more obviously.  The 470 is a better card am I right?  Are you just stating that performance/$ the ATI is better?  Because I would agree with you on that.

What is you all's opinion then on the 5850 vs the 5870?  If I am only going to be running one card for at least a year and I want the highest of high settings on 1680x1050 do you think the 5850 is not gonna cut the mustard?  Do I need the 5870 to be sure it will last over a year before XF.


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 31, 2010)

deaffob said:


> I don't think it's worth it. If you wanna pay some premium, go triple 480 or 2X5890.



when 1 480 is already hot you want to have 3 of them - not to mention the 1.5k/W PSU you'd have to buy to support everything. also a new case with good airflow, Aircon your room to keep ambient temps down & a fat wallet - not just to pay for everything else already mentioned but also future electricity bills too because your gonna be selling your body to pay your bills. its a stupid idea - but if you got cash to waste then more power to you.



strafter said:


> Sorry, I've been outta the game a while, why is AMD good for gaming but not other things?



Generally - AMD processors arent as 'perfect' as intels - the topline Phenom II X4's arent as efficient somewhat & tend to eat a lot of voltage (1.5v+) to get to 4ghz (or at least that was the case in Guru3D's review or the 965BE) its a bit difficult to explain really.

the only saving grace is the price which here is around £150 but just £10 more can get you an i5 750 which will clock to 4.2Ghz & much much higher with the right gear & at that speed it will totally smash the 965 BE not just in synthetic benchmarks but in gaming also!

you can do a lot with a quad core processor - correct, but you can do it a lot faster with the right quad IMHO.

that is my personal opinion. its hard to recommend AMD compared to the performance of what the i5 750 gives you. for the same or slightly more money.


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## Socratus (Mar 31, 2010)

1. You should get motherboard (whatever Intel or AMD) with SATA III Support. I am predicting we will meet SSD Hard Drives with SATA III in the near future.
2. IMO, i5 platform (LGA 1156) is not the best choice for future, maybe because of future upgrading for cheaper gulftowns. X58 or 890FX.
3. Myself is building too gaming rig, but around 2000$. Already built a list of hardware, tell me if you wanna look at


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## strafter (Mar 31, 2010)

Socratus said:


> 1. You should get motherboard (whatever Intel or AMD) with SATA III Support. I am predicting we will meet SSD Hard Drives with SATA III in the near future.
> 2. IMO, i5 platform (LGA 1156) is not the best choice for future, maybe because of future upgrading for cheaper gulftowns. X58 or 890FX.
> 3. Myself is building too gaming rig, but around 2000$. Already built a list of hardware, tell me if you wanna look at



1. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157163 where would it say it is SATA III?
2. I think I have already totally written the i5 off the list, I am almost definitely going with the i7 930 I think.  I'll look at the x6, but won't hold my breath
3. PLEASE I'd love to see what you got cooking, PM or if youre feeling couragous post it here for all to see! =)


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## Binge (Mar 31, 2010)

I love how all the reputable folks who game every day are being ignored by the OP lol 



strafter said:


> @ Fishy
> 
> Yea I think you just sold me, I am definitely looking at the X58 board (probably the ASRock for best affordability) and a i7 930.  Correct me if I am wrong but the x58 boards have 3 x16 slots correct?
> 
> I think I am going to go with the i7 930, the X58 and a single 5850 for the first 6-12 months and then an additional 5850 after the first 6-12 months and a 3rd 5850 at around year 2.  I think after research that will give the best gaming performance over time at the MOST cost effective point.  Anyone see this to be incorrect?



I find a serious flaw with this logic.


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## Socratus (Mar 31, 2010)

Here is it:






Emm, little mistake on the top. AMD Phenom II X4 960T* not X6


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## Binge (Mar 31, 2010)

Add $150 to your total, pay for shipping, and I'll sell you my rig with a cherry picked 930 in it, OCed.


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## Socratus (Mar 31, 2010)

**



Binge said:


> Add $150 to your total, pay for shipping, and I'll sell you my rig with a cherry picked 930 in it, OCed.



No thanks, i'm not from US..Shipping over 20 lbs costs billions $$ 
Anyway, how is that Intel/AMD builds look like?


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## Binge (Mar 31, 2010)

Socratus said:


> No thanks, i'm not from US..Shipping over 20 lbs costs billions $$
> Anyway, how is that Intel/AMD builds look like?



I was talking to the OP, not you.  I don't personally like your builds, but that's just me.


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## mastrdrver (Mar 31, 2010)

strafter said:


> Yea I think you just sold me, I am definitely looking at the X58 board (probably the ASRock for best affordability) and a i7 930.  Correct me if I am wrong but the x58 boards have 3 x16 slots correct?



As for this part, you need to read this entire article: Madshrimp's: Seven x58 board review

Then, understand why this one part is so very important: Vdroop of boards tested

I just can't fathom the thought of how this board is worse than the Intel. Its like they threw the Intel reference design out the window and said "we can do better" without even knowing what the standard was. :shadedshu


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 31, 2010)

strafter said:


> Sorry, I've been outta the game a while, why is AMD good for gaming but not other things?.


 AMD is good for everything except applications that are multi-threaded. Doing things like encoding video will be faster on an i7. But the term faster on TPU or any enthusiast site should be taken with a grain of salt. Does it matter if you wait 10 seconds or 15 seconds? I mean a 5 second lead on TPU is considered "blowing away" the competition. I rather wait 15 seconds and have 150 bucks in my pocket than spend it and wait 10 seconds.  Get my drift?

With that being said there is nothing wrong with ether Intel or AMD. Just make sure you make the right choice for your application. In your case its gaming. So OC isn't a big concern for the CPU. Get a good i7 or a top end AMD and focus on the GPU and HD speed.



strafter said:


> Why is this?  I mean dollars aside, because the 470 is about $75 more obviously.  The 470 is a better card am I right?  Are you just stating that performance/$ the ATI is better?  Because I would agree with you on that.


 Heat, heat, heat. The new Nvidia cards are HOT. Read the review on TPU and read the comments. The ATI 5xxx series cards are much better made right now. Because if you do end up overclocking you don't want your case to end up with a 90+c oven installed to raise your ambient.




strafter said:


> What is you all's opinion then on the 5850 vs the 5870?  If I am only going to be running one card for at least a year and I want the highest of high settings on 1680x1050 do you think the 5850 is not gonna cut the mustard?  Do I need the 5870 to be sure it will last over a year before XF.


 A 5850 will last you years to come. Thats right YEARS. Everything on high for a year or so and then the performance will taper off as will any GPU. Keep in mind the 5850/5870 are BEASTS.



FreedomEclipse said:


> Generally - AMD processors aren't as 'perfect' as Intel's - the topline Phenom II X4's aren't as efficient somewhat & tend to eat a lot of voltage (1.5v+) to get to 4ghz (or at least that was the case in Guru3D's review or the 965BE) its a bit difficult to explain really.
> 
> the only saving grace is the price which here is around £150 but just £10 more can get you an i5 750 which will clock to 4.2Ghz & much much higher with the right gear & at that speed it will totally smash the 965 BE not just in synthetic benchmarks but in gaming also!
> 
> ...


 I ain't arguing this. I agree 100% that Intels are faster. All I'm saying is wait for the x6. If he gets the performance of an i7 and has six true cores then the AMD will be a better buy. Remember this is a gaming PC. He doesn't need to OC this thing to 4ghz. He needs to focus on the GPU and HD.


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## strafter (Mar 31, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I ain't arguing this. I agree 100% that Intels are faster. All I'm saying is wait for the x6. If he gets the performance of an i7 and has six true cores then the AMD will be a better buy. Remember this is a gaming PC. He doesn't need to OC this thing to 4ghz. He needs to focus on the GPU and HD.



Won't the X6's come at a premium though when they are first released like any product usually does?  And everyone has been saying that multi-cores isn't a big issue in gaming and is mainly used for other applications. And now people are saying get an AMD it has 6 cores and will be suited for gaming, it won't do as well on other applications but for gaming it is the best.  Contradictory?  Or am I missing something

And sorry I know you kind of answered the GPU question, but if I have the space in my budget do you think an upgrade to the 5870 is worth the money, or should I just stick with the 5850.  The reason I see the 5870 as being viable is because in a year from now the 5850 and the 5870 will both be dirt cheap so the price difference wont matter, so in reality the decision I make today will have a 2X or even 3X multiplier on it when I go into a cross fire set-up.

For example say the 5850 gives me a score of 90 (making this up for example sake) and the 5870 gives me an 115.  Not a huge difference maybe not worth paying the extra $75-100 for, but down the line I XF it, now the 5850XF is at roughly 155 and the 5870XF is at 200, and at this time the card price will be almost insignificant.  XF again and now my scores are 195 and 285 respectively.  So in the beginning they were close, but every XF down the road opens the gap more and more for a price difference that is really not that significant.

And on the HD issue, I was under the impression that with 6 gigs of Ram, HD's weren't really a factor anymore, what are you suggesting. I have in my original build spec 6 Gig/s HD is that sufficient?  You aren't talking SSD are you?


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## strafter (Mar 31, 2010)

mastrdrver said:


> As for this part, you need to read this entire article: Madshrimp's: Seven x58 board review
> 
> Then, understand why this one part is so very important: Vdroop of boards tested



I read the article briefly, will read more in depth when I get off of work, but what immediately stood out is the fact that the benchmarks across all the boards are pretty much the same and the difference is insignificant.  So let me ask all the enthusiasts out there, why is it worth it to drop an additional $100 on a MoBo if they all produce similar benchmarks?  I can drop $100 on a graphics or CPU upgrade and I am guaranteed to see performance boost. (REMEMBER: I do not claim to be a MoBo guru or even hold adequate knowledge on the subject, so before you come in flaming please just be nice and tell me where I strayed from the path if I am wrong)

As for the Vdroop of boards... I have no clue what you are referring too, I skimmed through the article and saw no mention of this, nor do I know what Vdroop is (again no mobo specialist here by any account).  Maybe your hyperlink is pointing to the wrong article seeing as it is the exact same review?


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 31, 2010)

Vdroop stands for Voltage Droop - i.e Voltage dipping - where the voltage cant/wont stabilize at the voltage set in the bios & rather then volt UP, it volts DOWN. causing what is know as Vdroop.

most high end motherboards come with enough built in Power Phase & Voltage Regulation features to keep the voltage fairly stable.

Vdroop is very bad for overclocking


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## strafter (Mar 31, 2010)

So was the point trying to be made that the ASRocks board may suffer from Vdroop?  Or is that simple speculation just because it is an inexpensive board?


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 31, 2010)

taken from the madshrimps review



> Asrock: The first oddity we noticed was the very low voltage level of the Asrock motherboard, which is probably why the overclocking results are less good than the others. Since 1.4v in the bios does not equal a real voltage level of 1.4v, but much lower, the processor is more limited on the Asrock motherboard than on others. Note that we have informed Asrock of this issue and they are at the moment working on the issue.



Inexpensive isnt the point - you will come across excellent boards for that $160'ish your paying. but not every board its going to be great & in this instance ASrock falls short as the bios settings arent at all reliable.

when you set voltage to 1.4v, you expect the voltage to be read as 1.4v or as close to 1.4v with as little variation as possible.

but for the sake of sacrificing quality its not worth it in the long run.


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## strafter (Mar 31, 2010)

So anyone have a good recommendation for a decently priced MoBo that is more reliable than the ASrock?  I'm trying to keep the mobo under $200 if at all possible.  I really want to sail in under $1500 when all is said and done.


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## Socratus (Mar 31, 2010)

ASUS P6T SE - http://www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?819236_g10e


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## strafter (Mar 31, 2010)

Not bad Soc, but it doesnt have SATA III.  What about this with SATA III support?

GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD7 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128413

This board seems at a glance to have it all.  It could have a few more PCI slots so that you could have 3 dedicated PCI x16 slots in your rig (It appears if I were to Cross Fire 3 on this 2 of the cards would be at x8.  Is that really a big deal?)

It has SATAIII and supports a slew of Ram speeds without having to OC.

What do you guys think?


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## Socratus (Mar 31, 2010)

Emm, i thought you wanted something in 200$ range. 
Then, you can get ASUS P6X58D Premium - http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10011714&prodlist=froogle
or wait for Asus Striker III Extreme


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 31, 2010)

according to reviews it didnt do too bad. but one thing which popped up in many of the reviews is that the northbridge chipset coolering wasnt too great and/or the NB heatsink was a weird shape.

not bad overall id say.

Hardware Canucks review

Clunk review - buts its a little harder to read due to forum layout

BenchmarkReviews.com


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## strafter (Apr 1, 2010)

Binge said:


> I love how all the reputable folks who game every day are being ignored by the OP lol
> 
> 
> 
> I find a serious flaw with this logic.



Just now seeing this, no offense, but this post offers absolutely ZERO help...  You find a flaw really?  WHERE.  For all I know I could have just told you the Earth was round and your response could have been "I find a serious flaw with this logic."... ORLY?

Postings made to inflate egos and try to make yourself seem all knowing with no real substance just seem like wasted forum space to me....  Maybe I am wrong though... :shadedshu


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## strafter (Apr 1, 2010)

Socratus said:


> Emm, i thought you wanted something in 200$ range.
> Then, you can get ASUS P6X58D Premium - http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10011714&prodlist=froogle
> or wait for Asus Striker III Extreme



Oh F*(&$  sorry that wasn't the right board, I was looking at so many I put the wrong one up

here is the one I was looking at sorry guys

GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128423


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## Binge (Apr 1, 2010)

strafter said:


> Just now seeing this, no offense, but this post offers absolutely ZERO help...  You find a flaw really?  WHERE.  For all I know I could have just told you the Earth was round and your response could have been "I find a serious flaw with this logic."... ORLY?
> 
> Postings made to inflate egos and try to make yourself seem all knowing with no real substance just seem like wasted forum space to me....  Maybe I am wrong though... :shadedshu



I've written the x58 OC guide here, I build machines, and I broker electronic components.  That still means very little.  I'm not trying to make myself out to be an egomaniac by saying very little, and I'll take what you're saying without getting worked up.

Here are the flaws I see in your system builds.

A) There are wonderful, lower cost solutions that are much better for gaming and easier to cool.  The i3 530/i5 650 for example are basically low cost quads, and the motherboards that support them are CHEAP.  They overclock high, and support DDR3 memory.  This would benefit you because core speed > number of cores for gaming rigs.
B) You're correct in thinking 5850 is a great GREAT deal.  It's been the best expense any of my customers have made, and I'm reminded of it every day when using my own systems.  Power saving, performance, and low heat.  When you list your other options you're throwing away expandability and money.  They just aren't good deals.
C) The ram you chose is expensive and produces little benefit over most value memories.  I can explain/show you in detail if you have the time and contact me on MSN.
D) You will need a heatsink for your CPU no matter what.
E) You need to be careful cooling i7s, and it doesn't look like you've taken that into consideration.
F) A SSD for your OS and storage drive would service you better than 2x1TB drives.
G) You have not added in the cost of an operating system which will have to be 64-bit.
H) The PSUs you're listing are low quality, and you do not want to skimp on a PSU in a gaming rig.
I) You have not included the cost of a case, so I assume you have one.  Even if you do, if you're not familiar with current ram/motherboard quality then I assume you've got an older case with poor air-flow.  That's no good.
J) You assume SATA 3/USB 3 is actually viable in these motherboards.  No actually it isn't.  Until these chipsets come out with new south-bridges then it won't be true SATA/USB3.  It's faked by removing bandwidth from your PCI-E lanes, and you can't RAID the SATA 3.  This means when SATA 3 is a standard then you'll be buying a new motherboard anyway.

I can list more, but I've got to get back to work.


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## Socratus (Apr 1, 2010)

Binge said:


> J) You assume SATA 3/USB 3 is actually viable in these motherboards.  No actually it isn't.  Until these chipsets come out with new south-bridges then it won't be true SATA/USB3.  It's faked by removing bandwidth from your PCI-E lanes, and you can't RAID the SATA 3.  This means when SATA 3 is a standard then you'll be buying a new motherboard anyway.
> 
> I can list more, but I've got to get back to work.


http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/3122/gigabyte_sata_6g_update_raid_0_just_how_we_like_it/index.html

P.S Sorry, my fault. That guy is right.


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## Binge (Apr 1, 2010)

Socratus said:


> http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/3122/gigabyte_sata_6g_update_raid_0_just_how_we_like_it/index.html
> 
> P.S Sorry, my fault. That guy is right.



x58 motherboards do not have this controller.


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## Socratus (Apr 1, 2010)

Binge said:


> x58 motherboards do not have this controller.



Ty, once again:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/02/20/sata_6gbs_on_your_new_motherboard/2
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=870&type=expert&pid=1


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## strafter (Apr 1, 2010)

@ Binge

Thanks man, THIS was really a helpful post. I didn't mean to bite your head off, I don't know you as I am new here, I just EXPECTED you were one of these A$$ holes who come in and provide no useful information other than bashing everyone else's ideas and providing no reasoning or proof to back it up leaving the OP just sitting there saying.... well.. WHY?!

This post shows I was wrong and I greatly appreciate your time in doing it, I would like to hear more about some of your above points when you have the time.


Couple things jump out:
1) I mean I want to do other things than just game on this.  This is my personal computer it is just gaming is one of the main applications.  And I think the i7 930 after research is my best option not only for future improvement with the X58 mobo but also for future software growth with hyperthreading tech.  I could probably save $200.. MAX on a i5 set-up, but in the grand scheme thats only a 13% price reduction for a BIG handicap on my system in my mind.

2) What RAM would you recommend, I thought that was pretty value already

3) I have included $80 for a case and heatsink.  I know that may be more like $100, but I don't believe in spending anymore than $50-80 on a case, they're all basically the same.

4) SATA III not being able to be raided.  If you check the Gigabyte board I have specced youll see it says

SATA 6Gb/s	2 x SATA 6Gb/s
SATA RAID	SATA 3Gb/s support for RAID 0/1/5/10
SATA 6Gb/s support for RAID 0/1

Right on the product page.  Are they Lying?  Looks to me like I can get two 6gig/s HD up in RAID 0.  At that point I don't need SSD do I?  And if you think SSD is a good idea please give me some options if you can, I am OBLIVIOUS on SSD options.  Last I checked they were like $10/gig (admittedly a while ago) which is outrageous when standard HD are $0.10/gig.

5) The PSU I see almost like the Case.  I don't want to buy junk, but I usually don't pay a premium past that of getting the Wattage I need and an average name brand.  I was under the impression that the PSU I picked out was decent, it is a $180 PSU with decent reviews


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## Socratus (Apr 1, 2010)

As for me,
2) OCZ Platinum 6GB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227381
G.SKILL PI Series 6GB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231335
5)CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX $120 
CORSAIR CMPSU-750HX $140 (Difference is that HX is modular..do you need accurate cable management?)
Antec TruePower New TP-750 $125 (Partly Modular)

Friend, it seems to me you're not going to OC your PC, am i right?


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## Binge (Apr 1, 2010)

strafter said:


> @ Binge
> 
> Thanks man, THIS was really a helpful post. I didn't mean to bite your head off, I don't know you as I am new here, I just EXPECTED you were one of these A$$ holes who come in and provide no useful information other than bashing everyone else's ideas and providing no reasoning or proof to back it up leaving the OP just sitting there saying.... well.. WHY?!
> 
> ...



2) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148246.  These chips OC over 1600MHz all the time at cas 8 latencies.  I have 4 sets of this memory around the house!  Bought them when they were $80 a set.

3) To cool an x58 well you'll need to spend at least $70.  The case being at least $50 would total $130 right there, and not all cases offer the same perks.  You still haven't mentioned if you have a 64 bit OS for your system.

4) Unless they changed the x58A, then I don't believe raid is a viable option for x58.  I don't believe they're lying, but the controller wasn't mature to my knowledge.  The X68 was supposed to have a more robust SATA III controller.  For an SSD you'd want something like the 40GB Intel SSD.  It has Trim and plenty of functions that would make it worth the use.  You'd be surprised how quick your OS will handle with an SSD.  All you do is install your SSD and the core programs you want to access.  The rest of your info (games, documents, downloads, and temporary files) you store on your TB drives.  It's faster than a RAID and uses less power.

5) I can't recommend you continue to think that way what with putting your money into these components.  A great PSU will last you for years to come, and a middle of the range PSU will just end up being replaced.  If you're worried about the cost then you should think about your priorities.  Do you want tri-fire now?  Or in a year or two will you buy another single card to replace a crossfire/single card that you have now?  Usually companies try to make their systems less and less energy hungry, and it seems like we've gotten past the need for KW psus except for three and four GPU configurations.  Something like this might suit you nicely.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151087

You might want to shop around for these parts as well.  For instance if you're really falling in love with x58.  I can provide NIB i7 920/930s for you below newegg price.



Socratus said:


> Friend, it seems to me you're not going to OC your PC, am i right?



If he doesn't then he'll just be wasting his money.  i7 chips regularly hit 4GHz with the correct settings and cooling.  My old man even OCed his 920 because the performance is just so much greater.


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## strafter (Apr 1, 2010)

@ Binge
What exactly does a good PSU get you?  Performance?  Reliability?  I mean will my computer bench higher load faster, etc. because of my PSU or will it simply not die?  If it is just the case of the PSU not crapping out and the Computer not shutting down randomly that's one thing if it is going to show substantial performance increases that is a totally different thing.

On the SATA3 situation, after some research here's what I found.  SATA3 as well as RAID is being supported on mobo's but unless you are using SSD you won't see any real improvement because the speed is bottlenecked by the HD itself, not the transfer mechanics.  This really has me questioning whether I even want a SATA3 board now.  I have never upgraded hard drives between builds before so assuming I don't decide to get a couple SSD in RADI 2 years down the line it would be a waste.

@Socratus
Well I wont OC right out the gate, because I'm not a benchmark hound, I just want to be able to do the stuff I do at the best performance.  Whether I am getting 150 or 1.5 million FPS on the highest settings of Bad Company 2 I could care less.  I just want to play the newest and greatest games on the highest settings and get acceptable FPS (60+)  This means around year 2 or 3 yes I will probably kick the clocks in, so I do want that to be an option down the road.


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## Binge (Apr 1, 2010)

strafter said:


> @ Binge
> What exactly does a good PSU get you?  Performance?  Reliability?  I mean will my computer bench higher load faster, etc. because of my PSU or will it simply not die?  If it is just the case of the PSU not crapping out and the Computer not shutting down randomly that's one thing if it is going to show substantial performance increases that is a totally different thing.
> 
> On the SATA3 situation, after some research here's what I found.  SATA3 as well as RAID is being supported on mobo's but unless you are using SSD you won't see any real improvement because the speed is bottlenecked by the HD itself, not the transfer mechanics.  This really has me questioning whether I even want a SATA3 board now.  I have never upgraded hard drives between builds before so assuming I don't decide to get a couple SSD in RADI 2 years down the line it would be a waste.
> ...



A good PSU can save you money on your electric bill by being more efficient, it makes your system stable, and it won't just completely fail on you.  For overclocking it actually does help overclocks remain stable through continued use.  Most folks regardless of benchmarking overclock their rigs to see the performance in every day applications like video encoding.

Any info on that OS????

Another interesting fact.  Every 10C cooler your CPU you can double the life expectancy of the CPU in terms of years in operation.


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## strafter (Apr 1, 2010)

OOops sorry, yea I am going to be picking up a Win 7 Pro for $70 or 80, but I am not tallying that into the $1500.  That's an external cost in my mind along with such things as new peripherals such as mouse, keyboard, monitor should I decide to upgrade any of those.

My only thing is I have never had a CPU, PSU, stick of RAM, hell even hard drive die on me except for one computer that went through a power surge on a shitty surge protector.  It was a Dell though so who cares.  So selling this customer on reliability and life span in terms of a better PSU or supercooling is tough.  I'm not saying it may not be valid but the reality stick hasn't slapped me upside the head yet  and so I am not truly worried about these issues.  I think a moderate 1-1.2 kW PSU priced in the 100 range should cover my consumption needs and if history continues to serve me won't crap out on me.  I'm also not crazy on saving electricity at this point either.  

I will be going with a heat sink on my CPU though, nothing fancy, but I know that it will be important later down the road when I start to OC it.


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## mastrdrver (Apr 1, 2010)

If your going air on that i7, Noctua NH-D14 is all I have to say.

Get a case with good air flow and you can cool an overclocked i7 passive. Done it in my HAF 932 with 3800 and 1.25v on the core for 1 Hr LinX stability. Not to mentioned I gamed for a week straight (everyday after work for about 5 Hrs) and never once did the system crash. Temperatures stayed well below 60C according to Real Temp. Room ambient was 22-24C the whole time.

Yes there are Thermalrights and the Mega that are close. For the price though, after you add in good, quite fans you'll be at the same price as the Noctua. Not even mentioning the plethora of mounts you get with the cooler. You get everything to get the cooler out of the box and on to the board: fans, heatsink, Intel and AMD mounts, and really good TIM.

Also, if you want to make those quiet fan silent, they give you two ULNA. Plus they add in a 2-to-1 three pin adapter so you don't need to use more than one fan header for both fans.


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## Socratus (Apr 1, 2010)

mastrdrver said:


> If your going air on that i7, Noctua NH-D14 is all I have to say.
> 
> and you can cool an overclocked i7 passive.





btw, your choice about PS is not so bad 
http://pcwizkidstechtalk.com/index.php/tuniq-ripper-review.html


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## Binge (Apr 1, 2010)

strafter said:


> OOops sorry, yea I am going to be picking up a Win 7 Pro for $70 or 80, but I am not tallying that into the $1500.  That's an external cost in my mind along with such things as new peripherals such as mouse, keyboard, monitor should I decide to upgrade any of those.
> 
> My only thing is I have never had a CPU, PSU, stick of RAM, hell even hard drive die on me except for one computer that went through a power surge on a shitty surge protector.  It was a Dell though so who cares.  So selling this customer on reliability and life span in terms of a better PSU or supercooling is tough.  I'm not saying it may not be valid but the reality stick hasn't slapped me upside the head yet  and so I am not truly worried about these issues.  I think a moderate 1-1.2 kW PSU priced in the 100 range should cover my consumption needs and if history continues to serve me won't crap out on me.  I'm also not crazy on saving electricity at this point either.
> 
> I will be going with a heat sink on my CPU though, nothing fancy, but I know that it will be important later down the road when I start to OC it.



That's fair.  Entirely valid.  I would still get a more note-worthy PSU, but that is again just my own concern I put forth to my own.  You've made more than enough to argue otherwise.


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## strafter (Apr 1, 2010)

Socratus said:


> btw, your choice about PS is not so bad
> http://pcwizkidstechtalk.com/index.php/tuniq-ripper-review.html



Thanks for the review, yea I thought it looked like a pretty decent PSU when I first was looking into it.  Not that I REALLY knew what I was looking for...

Man I was up till like 1 am last night racking my brain over this whole SATAIII thing.  I really just don't know what way to go on this.  Seems like on all the standard mobo's SATAIII really is just stealing bandwidth from your PCI slots, which isn't really something I want happening....

So the question is do I even look for a board that has SATAIII.....  Because as Binge said, right now Sata III isn't REAL Sata III it's a leached module on your PCI not an actual Southbridge set-up.

Seems like every time I got this figured out I stumble upon yet ANOTHER thing...

Semi-solved what processor I wanted, i7 930 -->  what GPU then
Solved the GPU issue, either 5850 or 70 --> well what Ram do you want
Semi-Solved the Ram issue --> well what PSU are you going to use
Figured that out --> what about cooling?!
What about PSU, SATA III or no SATA III, SSD or standard HD.... ahhhhhhhhhh

Can anyone think of any other huge issues I am missing so I don't stumble upon them and end up feeling like this guy -->


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## Socratus (Apr 1, 2010)

CPU Intel Core i7-930 $250
GPU Sapphire Non-ref HD 5870 390$ 
Motherboard ASRock X58 Extreme - $160
RAM which Binge offered - $150
PSU Tuniq Ripper PSU-RIP1000W-BK - $100
HDD Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB - $92
Cooling Noctua NH-D14 - $83
Case HAF 922 - $90
Optical Drives 2xSamsung - $50
Total: $1365

Edited.


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## strafter (Apr 1, 2010)

@ Socratus

Yea that is pretty much the set-up... only thing is the SSD.  I just don't think I am going to go down that road.  The technology is still too new for me and the price just isn't in line yet.  I don't have room in my budget for 3 HDs meaning I would have to have 1 SSD and 1 rotation drive.  This means my OS would run blazingly fast and my games would suffer with no RAID 0 support...  This rig is focused on gaming, so I just don't see the gain in that.  I could put my choice games on the SSD, but I would think that would be more hassle than it is really worth trying to constantly transfer new games on and archive old games off of it and onto the rotational.  If anyone knows of any programs out there that make this process simple where I could just drag entire games from one drive to the next let me know, but I don't think it exists

On the 5870 issue, I havent yet really decided which one I want to go with.  I just think I am going to be building this rig still a month or two out, so by then I think the 5870 will be down to around $300 and the 5850 will be sliding into the Medium card spot whereas the 5870 will still be up in the Medium to high slot.  Also since I am just buying one card now I want it to be good enough to rip through games until the prices drop enough that the 2nd 5870 is CHEAP.  Here is an example I gave to explain also why I am leaning towards the 5870


> For example say the 5850 gives me a score of 90 (making this up for example sake) and the 5870 gives me an 115. Not a huge difference maybe not worth paying the extra $75-100 for, but down the line I XF it, now the 5850XF is at roughly 155 and the 5870XF is at 200, and at this time the card price will be almost insignificant. XF again and now my scores are 195 and 285 respectively. So in the beginning they were close, but every XF down the road opens the gap more and more for a price difference that is really not that significant.


On the monitor resolution way way back in the thread I posted...



strafter said:


> @ Jr I am probably going to be running 1650x1050 for now, I am running a 3 year old Samsung monitor and don't think it supports any higher, but my next step will be to go up to a 2560 and dual monitor with my current one



I probably will be on a 1650 for at least another year.  I mean 1650x1050 is beautiful enough, I don't need to go any higher at this point.  Also I probably would line my 2560 monitor purchase up with a XF 5870 purchase.


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## Socratus (Apr 1, 2010)

Good, -$120 then 

By the way, read this - http://www.shanebaxtor.com/2010/03/25/ati-hint-at-no-price-drop/


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## willslick (Apr 1, 2010)

Here is a link for you. I am looking at the WD 6GB drive for my build also

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10012298

Here is another

http://www.directron.com/wd1002faex.html

One other note at the Egg you can get the drive and the tune up utility for $130.00 I don't know much about tune up but it sounds interesting

Will


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## strafter (Apr 1, 2010)

@ willslick

Watch out for paying a premium on standard rotational drives for SATA III support.  Paying a premium on that drive for 6Gb/s is like paying a premium to put premium gas in your Ford pinto... it just doesnt do anything.  Here is my back up.  Directly from WD web site

Transfer Rates
	Transfer Rate (Buffer To Disk)	126 MB/s (Max)

Now my good friend google calculator tells me
        126 (MB / s) = 0.984375 Gb / s

So even if you raid them in a PERFECT world and get double the Transfer rate (RAID 0 usually only offers between 1.5-1.75x boost) you're still pushing under 2 Gb/s.  Easilty managed by the SATA II 3 Gb/s technology.  I don't even understand why WD sells these things with SATA III support....

My word of warning.


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## willslick (Apr 1, 2010)

Thanks for the heads up. The Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX is actually cheaper than the 3GB WD 1T and has upgrades found on the RE class drives that the black series does not normally have. I am well aware of the limitations of mechanical hdds but thanks for looking out.
Will


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