# static electricity question



## Stephen (Nov 18, 2008)

I'm gonna build my first computer as soon as the parts get here hopefully next week and I just need to know what to do about static

I'll be building on a wooden table (varnished, if that makes any difference) on a vinyl floor with my dog outside. Me being me I know nothing about electricity so basically how do I ground myself.

I didn't order a wrist band with my parts and I'd really love to not go to the hassle of ordering one. In Launceston we only have a couple of computer stores with just sell useless junk and of course no anti static wrist straps (I'd love to make a computer store here but I'm only 14 )

Will just touching a metal part of the case every so often be enough? Do I buy a $10 wrist strap and pay an extra $20 for delivery?

yay for living in Tasmania I suppose, the deserts in Australia would be more advanced than this state.


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## A Cheese Danish (Nov 18, 2008)

Well, tbh, i built my current rig on a carpet. No table and what not. But that's a risky situation. For your situation, if you hold on to the side of the case or part of the table you should be good. But I've never used an anti-static band except for in my computer tech class.


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## Darknova (Nov 18, 2008)

Hook up the PSU (just plug it in anywhere) but leave it switched off and not connected to anything, then every so often (or after touching pets, wool, anything that creates static) touch the case and that will ground you. It's what I do and I've had no problems so far


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Nov 18, 2008)

Just build barefoot, that's what I do.


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## Sonido (Nov 18, 2008)

OzzmanFloyd120 said:


> Just build barefoot, that's what I do.



And your parts still work? Praise Jesus!

Just make sure you discharge yourself before handling. Touch the PSU when it is connected to a grounded outlet. Do Not - I repeat; Do Not rub up against anything that can produce an electric charge (carpet, linen, ETC.).


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## imperialreign (Nov 18, 2008)

well - if you're concerned about ESD . . . just make sure to touch the case occasionally, wear rubber soled shoes of some sort, don't rub against frizzly materials, and avoided touching the electrical pins in any power sockets . . .  most PCBs have a coating over them that protects the actual circuitry, and most of the components can withstand negligible discharges . . . to build up enough juice within yourself to cause some serious damage, well, I'm not sure how you'd pull that off.


From my experiences, though - I've been working with computers for over 2 decades now and have yet to damage any component through building, tear-down, whatever . . . and I'm pretty rough with some testing procedures (yes, I will remove expansion cards from their slots with the rig running ).  I lay components on my bed, on the floor, pretty much anywhere I can find space during a tear-down.

Only component I've ever damaged was an old-ass Pentium Pro, and that was due to an OCing error on my part . . . set the mobo switches wrong . . .


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## Stephen (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanks for your replies 

I'll just make sure to touch it and be careful (although it sounds like I don't exactly need to be all that careful)


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## erocker (Nov 18, 2008)

I wear a metal wristwatch.  Just touching the side of the case first is good enough for me though.


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## Darknova (Nov 18, 2008)

Stephen said:


> Thanks for your replies
> 
> I'll just make sure to touch it and be careful (although it sounds like I don't exactly need to be all that careful)



You need to be careful, you just don't need to baby it as much as people can make it sound.

Just remember that if ever you walk away to ground yourself when you come back.


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## imperialreign (Nov 18, 2008)

Stephen said:


> Thanks for your replies
> 
> I'll just make sure to touch it and be careful (*although it sounds like I don't exactly need to be all that careful*)



well - no need to go overboard 

just excersize some caution, especially with your first build.  It'll take time for you to build up your own confidence with handling parts - if you take your time and are careful, and should something not work when you go to power it on . . . then you can be fairly certain it's not your fault for part failure.

Keep in mind that it's not unusual for parts to be DOA, it does happen occasionally.  If your confident that you've done everything right, then there's no need to blame yourself if something doesn't want to work.

And remember as well - there's a strong and knowledgable community here if you have any questions about anything at all


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## JC316 (Nov 18, 2008)

Man, you really don't have to be all that careful. I have built over carpet before, just make sure that the power supply is attached to the case and that the PS is plugged into a wall outlet. Take off any microfiber clothing and make sure there are no long haired animals around and you will be fine.


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## James1991 (Nov 18, 2008)

Stephen said:


> yay for living in Tasmania I suppose, the deserts in Australia would be more advanced than this state.


i could not disagree with you more. i am in south australia and i order something and it gets here a couple months later(about six months for my 3870x2 when i got that). thats no joking either, it's rediculus

back on topic now, i dont do anything special, put it together and it go's. and if it doesn't then i send it back on warranty(and if they cant get wat ever it is anymore they just get me something better and i dont have to pay a thing. perfect example is my 3870x2 getting replaced with 2 4850's and got $100 back).


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## Thrackan (Nov 18, 2008)

I think your answer lies in how comfortable you are with building your own system.

When I first started (dis-)assembling computer parts I was being very careful about what to touch and what to stay the heck away from.

As you work with building stuff longer, you'll most likely find yourself holding the non-metallic parts of expansion cards etc automatically. Also, you will touch the case more frequently than you think, and that's good.

The ESD will most likely happen if you do anything silly like moonwalking on the carpet, fluff petting your dog, wearing a woolen sweater and then start building  Otherwise you'll be fine, unless you're some sort of Magic Magnetic Static Man...

Yeah, I built stuff on carpet, with dogs nearby, with a woolen sweater on... That didn't feel al too comfortable to me at the time

A couple of weeks ago I did my first heatsink replacement on a graphics card. That one took me about 30 mins and lots of double checking, the next time will be a breeze


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## Sasqui (Nov 18, 2008)

I've never used a wrist strap and done many, many builds in the dead of new england winter (very dry!). Incidentally, usually work on a wooden table. 

Never a problem, but perhaps I'm pushing my luck.

If you have some spare wire and some scotch tape, you can always improvise


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## rockit00 (Nov 18, 2008)

Stephen said:


> I'm gonna build my first computer as soon as the parts get here hopefully next week and I just need to know what to do about static
> 
> I'll be building on a wooden table (varnished, if that makes any difference) on a vinyl floor with my dog outside. Me being me I know nothing about electricity so basically how do I ground myself.
> 
> ...


Hey,I own a wrist strap $3.95 USD. You can make your own emergency wrist strap for free! Just take a 3 or 4ft. piece of wire. On one end strip the wire back about 2 inches. This end will be the end that you attach to the Computer. On the other end strip the wire back about 8 or 9 inches. This end will be to wrap around your wrist. Presto! Anti-Static Wrist Band.


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## r9 (Nov 18, 2008)

If you charge some component usually is ram just take antistatic wrapping that components come in and rub them it works I can`t count how many times I have done that. That is working in situations that components are charged not damaged by static electricity.


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## dadi_oh (Nov 18, 2008)

ESD is worse in dry conditions. If Tasmania is humid then that is a better situation than the deserts of Australia.

Just a note on the "build your own wriststrap" thing. Yes that would work but real wrist straps have a 10 megohm series resistor in them as a safety precaution. Nothing like being REALLY well grounded when you touch that 240V rail 

I just touch my "plugged in" (and therefore grounded) case every once in a while. Also, if you are sitting in a wheeled office chair try to avoid rolling around while working on the machine. That can build up a charge as well. And I wouldn't wear a wool sweater... maybe a cotton shirt. Mostly just common sense stuff.


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## Sasqui (Nov 20, 2008)

dadi_oh said:


> Just a note on the "build your own wriststrap" thing. Yes that would work but real wrist straps have a 10 megohm series resistor in them as a safety precaution. Nothing like being REALLY well grounded when you touch that 240V rail



Ahhh... interesting - didn't know that.

I guess another work of caution when building is always unplug the computer when working with cabling or installing/pulling cards, even with the computer off, there is voltage going to the MB.  And don't drink too much - I've made that mistake before


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## James1991 (Nov 20, 2008)

Sasqui said:


> And don't drink too much - I've made that mistake before



please continue


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## rangerone766 (Nov 20, 2008)

i gotta second the shoes thing. i sometimes forget and get zapped when working in my case. even with shoes on i can still feel a bit of a shock from time to time.

btw, its just a small tingle enough to know youve been shocked. but not like touching bare 110volt wiring or anything. it feels aboult like putting your tounge on a 9volt battery.

and i've never killed a piece of hardware yet.


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## dadi_oh (Nov 20, 2008)

rangerone766 said:


> i gotta second the shoes thing. i sometimes forget and get zapped when working in my case. even with shoes on i can still feel a bit of a shock from time to time.
> 
> btw, its just a small tingle enough to know youve been shocked. but not like touching bare 110volt wiring or anything. it feels aboult like putting your tounge on a 9volt battery.
> 
> and i've never killed a piece of hardware yet.



I think that the rule of thumb (or is that the rule of finger  is that the threshold of perception of an ESD discharge is between 2kV and 4kV. Most devices can get damaged below that level so it is possible to damage a device without even feeling the discharge. Avoid handling circuit boards except at the edges (don't touch the devices on the board).

Buildup of static charge is based on how far apart the things being rubbed together are in the triboelectric table. http://science.howstuffworks.com/vdg1.htm

So if you are wearing rabbit fur slippers and shuffling around on a teflon floor you need to be extra careful


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## Homeless (Nov 20, 2008)

I usually just touch my bathroom doorknob and get to work


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## dadi_oh (Nov 20, 2008)

Homeless said:


> I usually just touch my bathroom doorknob and get to work



OK. I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering about this.... You assemble your computers in your bathroom? Are they watercooled?


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## Homeless (Nov 20, 2008)

Hahaha.  I meant to say that I touch my bathroom doorknob to release all static electricity and then build the machine on top of a wooden mat


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## Sasqui (Nov 20, 2008)

James1991 said:


> please continue



Ok, this one time at band camp... 

I pulled out a PCI card with the system on and running, LOL!!!  System crashed, but booted right back up again with no problems.  *whew*


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## James1991 (Nov 20, 2008)

Sasqui said:


> Ok, this one time at band camp...






Sasqui said:


> I pulled out a PCI card with the system on and running, LOL!!!  System crashed, but booted right back up again with no problems.  *whew*


  i do that every now and then(cant be bothered turning it off)  i just put mine back in and they work again(with it still on)


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## spearman914 (Nov 20, 2008)

Just don't wear any wool or cotton clothing, wash and dry hands and ur off to go.


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## Sasqui (Nov 20, 2008)

James1991 said:


> i do that every now and then(cant be bothered turning it off)  i just put mine back in and they work again(with it still on)



Hahahaaa - love redefining hot-swappable!


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## Sonido (Nov 20, 2008)

Sasqui said:


> Ok, this one time at band camp...
> 
> I pulled out a PCI card with the system on and running, LOL!!!  System crashed, but booted right back up again with no problems.  *whew*



That's nothing. I once, while drunk out of my mind, decided it was a good time to re-do my PC while intoxicated. I didn't seem to remember that I left my PC running while I was out. I pulled out my CPU. I heard a quick beep and a total system failure.  Being that I was going "WTF!?", I decided to reinstall my CPU while the PC was still running... :shadedshu


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## James1991 (Nov 20, 2008)

Sonido said:


> That's nothing. I once, while drunk out of my mind, decided it was a good time to re-do my PC while intoxicated. I didn't seem to remember that I left my PC running while I was out. I pulled out my CPU. I heard a quick beep and a total system failure.  Being that I was going "WTF!?", I decided to reinstall my CPU while the PC was still running... :shadedshu



Maximum Intelligence right here everyone ^^^^


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## p_o_s_pc (Nov 20, 2008)

I damaged a mobo by walking on carpet then not grounding myself when i came back and for some reason i toutched the chipset HS and saw a spark then followed lots of artafacts and unstable system then bout a month later followed no post


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## Sonido (Nov 20, 2008)

James1991 said:


> Maximum Intelligence right here everyone ^^^^



What's funny is that I remember seeing the CPU cooler's fan run, but I didn't pay any mind to it...


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## spearman914 (Nov 21, 2008)

Yeah i was dizzy once and i thought my case fan was a toilet so i peed in it and the pee spurt right back at me for the fan spinning. Then i was like "oo orage juice". Mom came in" What is that yellow stuff". Orange juice. Mom wepted it off and smelled it .." omg urine!!?


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## James1991 (Nov 21, 2008)

Sonido said:


> What's funny is that I remember seeing the CPU cooler's fan run, but I didn't pay any mind to it...


hmmmm.... best to lock your computer in a room before you go getting drunk next time then



spearman914 said:


> Yeah i was dizzy once and i thought my case fan was a toilet so i peed in it and the pee spurt right back at me for the fan spinning. Then i was like "oo orage juice". Mom came in" What is that yellow stuff". Orange juice. Mom wepted it off and smelled it .." omg urine!!?


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## Nick89 (Nov 21, 2008)

In every build I've ever done I've never used an anti static wrist band. You really dont need them at all just don't wear any socks and touch the bare metal in you case. You should be fine.


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## Mussels (Nov 21, 2008)

i've built PC's on carpet/beds/bedsheets for years without any issue.

TBH, its not the static that kills them - its random dust and debris falling into the slots, or solder points catching on carpet and getting damaged. seriously, you'd need rubbing slippers on carpet to get this to be a problem - if your PC is in a case and you are touching that case, you and the PC have the same electrical charge - there is no discharge, there is no damage.

"static electricity killed your PC" is computer techie lingo for "i have no idea why its broken, but i'll charge you $150 for it anyway"


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## Gilletter (Nov 21, 2008)

Stephen said:


> Thanks for your replies
> 
> I'll just make sure to touch it and be careful (although it sounds like I don't exactly need to be all that careful)



Do you even know how WRONG that sounds? On topic: I've never used a static wrist band, never had an issue... even built computers with my dog walking by and bumping into me.


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## James1991 (Nov 21, 2008)

Gilletter said:


> Do you even know how WRONG that sounds?





Gilletter said:


> On topic: I've never used a static wrist band, never had an issue... even built computers with my dog walking by and bumping into me.


i've had my cat up on the desk sniffing the parts


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## zithe (Nov 21, 2008)

I did it wearing socks on a carpet once. I wore gloves and an anti-static wrist band for good measure, though.

Usually I do it in the kitchen with my wristband connected to the dish washer. Works out pretty well.

Edit: Yes, this does come out kinda wrong...


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## Gilletter (Nov 21, 2008)

zithe said:


> I did it wearing socks on a carpet once. I wore gloves and an anti-static wrist band for good measure, though.
> 
> Usually I do it in the kitchen with my wristband connected to the dish washer. Works out pretty well.
> 
> Edit: Yes, this does come out kinda wrong...



lol, see how I can just twist a little normal sentance and make it so wrong... blame it on the inlaws, lol


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## Thrackan (Nov 21, 2008)

Sonido said:


> That's nothing. I once, while drunk out of my mind, decided it was a good time to re-do my PC while intoxicated. I didn't seem to remember that I left my PC running while I was out. I pulled out my CPU. I heard a quick beep and a total system failure.  Being that I was going "WTF!?", I decided to reinstall my CPU while the PC was still running... :shadedshu



But... did it live?


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## thoughtdisorder (Nov 21, 2008)

zithe said:


> I did it wearing socks on a carpet once. I wore gloves and an anti-static wrist band for good measure, though.
> 
> Usually I do it in the kitchen with my wristband connected to the dish washer. Works out pretty well.



Overshare! 


Honestly I've never had an issue with static, though we spend tons of money at work and put our manufacturing folks through hours and hours of training every year on ESD. I'm not sure what to make of it tbh........


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## dadi_oh (Nov 21, 2008)

thoughtdisorder said:


> Overshare!
> 
> 
> Honestly I've never had an issue with static, though we spend tons of money at work and put our manufacturing folks through hours and hours of training every year on ESD. I'm not sure what to make of it tbh........



I think that the "party line" is that ESD does not always destroy the device in question. It can weaken the device which then fails at some later point in time. Usually the actual failure can not be traced back to an earlier ESD event so it gets labeled as just "device X failed" with no known root cause.

So if ESD destroys it in the factory then it gets picked up in testing and has no customer impact. If ESD in the factory "weakens" the device then it show up later as a customer return with unknown device failure then there is cusotmer impact which is bad... since it was conceivably preventable by better ESD practices in teh factory.

That's the theory anyways. I don't work in the field return area so no idea how frequent these "unknown root cause" failures happen.


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## thoughtdisorder (Nov 21, 2008)

dadi_oh said:


> I think that the "party line" is that ESD does not always destroy the device in question. It can weaken the device which then fails at some later point in time. Usually the actual failure can not be traced back to an earlier ESD event so it gets labeled as just "device X failed" with no known root cause.
> 
> So if ESD destroys it in the factory then it gets picked up in testing and has no customer impact. If ESD in the factory "weakens" the device then it show up later as a customer return with unknown device failure then there is cusotmer impact which is bad... since it was conceivably preventable by better ESD practices in teh factory.
> 
> That's the theory anyways. I don't work in the field return area so no idea how frequent these "unknown root cause" failures happen.



That actually makes a lot of sense. We build missiles and other warfighter components, and to us a failure in the field could mean a life or two, so we take it very seriously. That would explain the intensitiy with which we train our manufacturing folks. Thanks.


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## Gilletter (Nov 23, 2008)

Sonido said:


> That's nothing. I once, while drunk out of my mind, decided it was a good time to re-do my PC while intoxicated. I didn't seem to remember that I left my PC running while I was out. I pulled out my CPU. I heard a quick beep and a total system failure.  Being that I was going "WTF!?", I decided to reinstall my CPU while the PC was still running... :shadedshu



that almost sounds signature worthy! lol... anyone?


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## Stephen (Nov 23, 2008)

I built the computer yesterday and I'm using it now so I hope it's fine.

All I did was touch the psu every so often.

Oh and I almost dropped the cpu lol


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## Thrackan (Nov 23, 2008)

Heh, I dropped a HDD yesterday. Luckily, in this case, the 'HDD' was a CompactFlash card in an adapter


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## p_o_s_pc (Nov 23, 2008)

Stephen said:


> I built the computer yesterday and I'm using it now so I hope it's fine.
> 
> All I did was touch the psu every so often.
> 
> Oh and I almost dropped the cpu lol



I dropped my 5kBE about 2 weeks ago i put it in and it worked just fine clocked it up to 3.2ghz even  CPUs can take some abuse but i would still be easy on them

BTW what are the specs of the rig?


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## Wozzer (Nov 23, 2008)

I've JUST (today) - built my own computer without any static equipment. Make sure you;

- Keep it on a wooden table (All the components)
- Make sure you don't put your grubby mits on the connecters
- Touch the case every now and then

And bingo


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## Sonido (Nov 23, 2008)

Gilletter said:


> that almost sounds signature worthy! lol... anyone?



^_^


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## Sonido (Nov 23, 2008)

Stephen said:


> I built the computer yesterday and I'm using it now so I hope it's fine.
> 
> All I did was touch the psu every so often.
> 
> Oh and I almost dropped the cpu lol



Yea, I touch it all the time.


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