# Swapped Modems, same model, static WAN IP, Router couldn't reconnect



## videobruce (Nov 21, 2017)

No Firewall in Router or in O/S
Static IP addresses for all my devices except for a ATA (Obi202)
Nothing special or fancy in the LAN.
All wired except for a Laptop.

Long story short, I swapped identical Modems that gave a static WAN IP address (yes it was static!) Both had a RF connection, new one showed connected. I moved the Router cable to the new modem with no reboot of the Router.

No connection to the Internet. I rebooted the Router, still nothing. I then noted there was IP assigned. I did a DHCP release and renew twice. Still nothing.

I then reset the Router (which I didn't want to do), still nothing. No WAN IP assigned still.
I changed the LAN start IP adress from 100 to 2 since I use static IP address and after a minute the Router finally received a WAN IP address.

Questions;
1. Going from one identical Modem to another that passes an IDENTICAL IP address to the Router, is it still necessary to reboot the Router?
2. Even after rebooting, why wasn't there connectivity between the Modem & Router, even thou the Modem 'Link' LED showed connected and with activity?
3. After the Router reset, is spite of the LAN starting address at 100 which was outside of the static IP's of my devices, why didn't the Router get the WAN address from the Modem??

Win7
Spectrum ISP
Zoom 5341J Modem
TP-Link WDR-3600 Router running dd-wrt firmware


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## dorsetknob (Nov 21, 2017)

you need to configure the new Router 

to

Have the same Settings as the one it replaced  
While the Hardware may be Identical
software configurations may not be 
so you need to reconfigure


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## videobruce (Nov 21, 2017)

The Router is not new, it's the same Router.

The Modems were swapped. I stated nothing about the Router being swapped.


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## Kursah (Nov 21, 2017)

Does your ISP need to send any kind of provisioning to the modem to authorize its MAC address to pass network traffic? 

Have you verified with your ISP that you could swap out the modem without issue?

Did you connect a workstation or laptop directly to the modems Ethernet interface and attempt static and DHCP and verify if you could pass network traffic at all?

So there are two ways I see public static IP addresses deployed/provisioned up here on most services.

The first is static assignment with MAC assignment(s) for authorized interfaces.

The second is DHCP with a /30 network to limit to one IP address for any authorized device, though usually no MAC filtering so you can use whatever modem you want.

What I see and experience may be different from what you are in your area. But sounds to me like you may need to reach out to your ISP.


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## Jetster (Nov 21, 2017)

You need to call your ISP  when you change modems.
If you  power cycle your router and modem it should connect those two but your ISP has to connect the new mac address. You can't just switch modems


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## videobruce (Nov 21, 2017)

Yes, I had Spectrum provision/authorize the Modem. I probably gone thru this a half a dozen times over the years. I didn't figure that would of been necessary to state that.  That included giving them the MAC of the new Modem.

I had my Desktop on when this was occurring. As soon as I confirmed that the Modem was rebooted after he provisioned it which was when I lost the call, (I'm on VoIP), I moved the Router cable from the old to the new Modem. Nothing was connected to the new Modem when it was initially provisioned. Like I stated, I have done this more than once before with no issue. Probably three times from going to or from my equipment to theirs for one reason or another (usually a service change).


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## AsRock (Nov 21, 2017)

Kursah said:


> Does your ISP need to send any kind of provisioning to the modem to authorize its MAC address to pass network traffic?
> 
> Have you verified with your ISP that you could swap out the modem without issue?
> 
> ...



Yeah his ISP might require a phone call, although some don't, i was told i would havve to with Comcast while thats not totally true and just waiting with the new modem installed it updated and soon after started to work.

His ISP might not even support his modem.


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## videobruce (Nov 22, 2017)

If it wasn't supported, it wouldn't of been activated. 
Of course it's supported, why would it of been in use already if it wasn't.

TWC/Spectrum does have a auto-attendant setup to provision a new Modem, but I have never used it. I prefer to 'talk' to a live person. I have had field techs get a new Modem provisioned, but I can't say if they ever give the CSR a MAC address or not.


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## Kursah (Nov 22, 2017)

videobruce said:


> Yes, I had Spectrum provision/authorize the Modem. I probably gone thru this a half a dozen times over the years. I didn't figure that would of been necessary to state that.  That included giving them the MAC of the new Modem.



The more you details you elect to provide the better it is for everyone involved, between those seeking help and those providing it. 



> I had my Desktop on when this was occurring. As soon as I confirmed that the Modem was rebooted after he provisioned it which was when I lost the call, (I'm on VoIP), I moved the Router cable from the old to the new Modem. Nothing was connected to the new Modem when it was initially provisioned. Like I stated, I have done this more than once before with no issue. Probably three times from going to or from my equipment to theirs for one reason or another (usually a service change).



Have you confirmed firmware and hardware revisions between new and old modem?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I've had plenty of lower-level tech support fail me on a modem provision. Another option is to return your new modem, and get another one of the same, or even go with a different model. There is a chance the new device isn't working correctly if everything else works. 

Which leads to you mentioning above that you had your "Desktop on", does that mean you had it directly connected to the Ethernet port on your modem to confirm an Internet connection? Or just you had it connected to your router on your old modem while they provisioned the new one? 



> I changed the LAN start IP adress from 100 to 2 since I use static IP address and after a minute the Router finally received a WAN IP address.



This line doesn't make sense, can you please clarify? 

Your LAN subnet settings shouldn't affect your WAN subnet configuration at all, and while they may be close they should never be the same subnet on both ends of the network. At least between an ISP and end-user. That's what NAT is for in IPv4.  

In a home or virtual lab messing around I've setup a virtual PFSense to use the same subnet for WAN and LAN, but disabled the DHCP server on the LAN-side to prevent issues with the current LAN DHCP server. 

Also, you shouldn't be receiving LAN private address (*per RFC 1918*) on your WAN port unless your modem is a modem/router combo, though I've seen some very small ISP's do that before.



> Questions;
> 1. Going from one identical Modem to another that passes an IDENTICAL IP address to the Router, is it still necessary to reboot the Router?



Yes, in most cases this is best practice to fully re-initialize the router, ports and running config. But you can also disable and enable the interface on the router if it is capable of allowing such. Not sure on your router even with DD-WRT if that's possible so a reboot should have sufficed.



> 2. Even after rebooting, why wasn't there connectivity between the Modem & Router, even thou the Modem 'Link' LED showed connected and with activity?



Did you confirm in the router's GUI that it showed an UP connection instead of DOWN? Interesting the modem showed activity, could this have been when the router was performing it's DHCP inquiries which are seemingly failing?

Have you reviewed the logs for both the router and modem? If so what did you find?

Source: http://tobias-tobin.blogspot.com/2013/09/zoom-5341j-cable-modem-how-to-access.html
Source 2: https://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Logging_with_DD-WRT#Displaying_logs_in_your_web_browser



> 3. After the Router reset, is spite of the LAN starting address at 100 which was outside of the static IP's of my devices, why didn't the Router get the WAN address from the Modem??



Not sure what your LAN config has to do with your WAN config, they should be separate aside from DHCP config for gateway and possibly DNS. Please clarify?


Have you escalated your issue with your ISP to confirm they're correctly provisioning your connection?
Have you requested a temporary DHCP provision to see if that changes anything?
You still haven't clearly stated that you had Internet access with a device connected directly to the new modem, nor if it was via DHCP or static configuration of your NIC. "Desktop on" could mean powered on for all we know.

I've spent years working with Charter/Spectrum/Optimum, CenturyLink, Blackfoot, Cox, etc. If I've learned anything, it is that odds are the tier 1 support isn't doing something correctly with the provisioning of your modem's configuration, if you haven't, get your case escalated. That isn't always the case, but if everything else between the modems (sans MAC) is exactly the same, then there's no reason it shouldn't work and that to me, points to either a faulty device or ISP issue. Might be worth replacing the new device, especially if you can't get any network-capable device to find the Internet through it once properly provisioned, and I'd push a little harder on the ISP. Hopefully that helps and we make some forward progress.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 22, 2017)

Jetster said:


> You need to call your ISP  when you change modems.
> If you  power cycle your router and modem it should connect those two but your ISP has to connect the new mac address. You can't just switch modems



The only ones I know of that need a call to the isp is Docsis cable modems, DSL just had to be ADLS2+ or VDSL compatible and just require the user credentials


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## jboydgolfer (Nov 22, 2017)

New modem= new mac or hw id?


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 22, 2017)

jboydgolfer said:


> New modem= new mac or hw id



Mac can be changed too


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## jboydgolfer (Nov 22, 2017)

I thought that was the reason people had to call into their ISP and have a modem enabled, otherwise what would stop your neighbor from just splitting your coaxial cable ,plugging in their own modem ,and piggybacking off your broadband Internet?

But im just a layman


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## AsRock (Nov 22, 2017)

Maybe he should just connect the computer directly to the modem and trouble shoot from that then see if it starts working. I know when i got a replacement modem i had to wait 30 minutes for the update start to finish.

Motorola modems were good that way and if people actually read the manual a lot of people would not need to contact the ISP.

Maybe his is trying the same thing but not given time it's never going to work as it might be restarting as it was interrupted.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 22, 2017)

jboydgolfer said:


> I thought that was the reason people had to call into their ISP and have a modem enabled, otherwise what would stop your neighbor from just splitting your coaxial cable ,plugging in their own modem ,and piggybacking off your broadband Internet?
> 
> But im just a layman



It is but if you have same exact modem it does help if you can get in to advanced interface and change it to match the other unit


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 22, 2017)

videobruce said:


> If it wasn't supported, it wouldn't of been activated.
> Of course it's supported, why would it of been in use already if it wasn't.



Not true, I have spectrum and my modem took a crap while my family was on vacation so when I got home I went to wall mart and bought the cheapest POS DOCSIS modem they had and the lady at charter said it was not supported but activated the MAC for me anyway. It worked until I had spectrum come out and give me one of their modems.


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## SnakeDoctor (Nov 22, 2017)

Backup the old modems config to file (if working) and upload config file to new modem
Restart modem


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## videobruce (Nov 22, 2017)

Kursah said:


> Have you confirmed firmware and hardware revisions between new and old modem?


No, never would of though of this, to many other things going on.


> Another option is to return your new modem, and get another one of the same, or even go with a different model.


The new one is fine (so far), it's the old one that is in question.


> Which leads to you mentioning above that you had your "Desktop on", does that mean you had it directly connected to the Ethernet port on your modem to confirm an Internet connection? Or just you had it connected to your router on your old modem while they provisioned the new one?


No direct connection, never did that before or had to.
I bet I swapped Modems at least twice before and NEVER had any of this happen. 



Kursah said:


> This line doesn't make sense, can you please clarify?
> Your LAN subnet settings shouldn't affect your WAN subnet configuration at all, and while they may be close they should never be the same subnet on both ends of the network. At least between an ISP and end-user. That's what NAT is for in IPv4.


The default LAN start address range in the Router was 192.168.1.100. I changed it to 192.168.1.2



Kursah said:


> Did you confirm in the router's GUI that it showed an UP connection instead of DOWN? Interesting the modem showed activity, could this have been when the router was performing it's DHCP inquiries which are seemingly failing?
> Have you reviewed the logs for both the router and modem? If so what did you find?


The "Internet" LED was flashing if that is what you meant. Any text entries within the menus were not. The WAN Domain Name nor the WAN address, even the time was not set.

This is the etire log. This was purchased late January this year as refurbished. I initially activated it to be sure it was working, then put it in storage.


> Time Priority Description
> Tue Nov 21 22:05:57 2017 Critical (3) Started Unicast Maintenance Ranging - No Response received - ...
> Tue Nov 21 12:44:51 2017 Critical (3) REG RSP not received;CM-MAC=fc:4a:e9:0a:4e:18;CMTS-MAC=00:01:...
> Tue Nov 21 12:44:40 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.9;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
> ...


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 22, 2017)

videobruce said:


> No, never would of though of this, to many other things going on.
> The new one is fine (so far), it's the old one that is in question.
> No direct connection, never did that before or had to.
> I bet I swapped Modems at least twice before and NEVER had any of this happen.



Policies change, call the isp get them to fix it


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## jboydgolfer (Nov 22, 2017)

eidairaman1 said:


> It is but if you have same exact modem it does help if you can get in to advanced interface and change it to match the other unit



 years ago I lived with a roommate who (for some reason or another) got banned from using twitch.com.  At the time I actually streamed video games quite a bit, but I didn't really care because he was the one who got banned & not me.   Well unfortunately I WAS blocked from the website ,because apparently the way they do the ban ,is by blocking your modems/routers MAC address, or something similar.  I was so pissed at the time ,that I looked into ways to get around it ,and inevitably I found out by switching the Mac address on my modem I was able to access the site just fine.

 I don't know the specifics of how they're banning system works, or how what I did made it so the block was no longer active ,but I  know that if I left the house and logged into my account elsewhere, I was able to use the site just fine because the ban wasn't on my account, it was on my network or my MAC address or whatever.

 The reason I mention it is because yes switching the MAC address or device ID is a great option to have I agree with you 100%


i dont recall what modem i had at the time, but i DO know the Router was a netgear WNDR 3800. im certain the modem was just a basic Charter provided one though, likely Cisco or the other company


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## videobruce (Nov 22, 2017)

Kursah said:


> Not sure what your LAN config has to do with your WAN config, they should be separate aside from DHCP config for gateway and possibly DNS. Please clarify?
> Have you escalated your issue with your ISP to confirm they're correctly provisioning your connection?


That was my question. It was somewhat after I did that, did the Router establish the connection from the ISP.
To the other question, the answer was in my OP, sorry it wasn't clear;


videobruce said:


> I changed the LAN start IP address from 100 to 2 since I use static IP address and *after a minute the Router finally received a WAN IP address*.



Yes, after that and as of now all is ok as far as this issue was concerned. It' was getting there that I couldn't understand.


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## Kursah (Nov 22, 2017)

videobruce said:


> No, never would of though of this, to many other things going on.
> The new one is fine (so far), it's the old one that is in question.
> No direct connection, never did that before or had to.
> I bet I swapped Modems at least twice before and NEVER had any of this happen.



The direct connection is a common thing that even Level 1 ISP tech support may ask you to do to confirm a connection, I've done that at least 100 times in the field if not more. I'm kind of surprised during this matter they've never asked you to do that. But as a future diagnostic metric, it is something you can do also to confirm if it is your router or not that's the issue. 



videobruce said:


> The default LAN start address range in the Router was 192.168.1.100. I changed it to 192.168.1.2
> 
> The "Internet" LED was flashing if that is what you meant. Any text entries within the menus were not. The WAN Domain Name nor the WAN address, even the time was not set.
> 
> This is the etire log. This was purchased late January this year as refurbished. I initially activated it to be sure it was working, then put it in storage.



The way you explain your LAN address affecting your WAN address in prior posts to this are what confused me, and made me wonder WTF you were talking about, still not entirely sure if you felt it needed changed because of your WAN issue? You shouldn't have to change your LAN because of your WAN, period. You can change your router to any IP address in a /24 subnet between .1 and .254. That being said, .0 and .255 are reserved to identify and broadcast the LAN subnet. 

So the logs you posted for the Modem had a lot of repeated errors posted in them that means there's an obvious issue. The actual meaning of those errors is however not as obvious, so I did a quick copy and paste in Google of this: _Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8_

Found this right away as the first result: http://forums.timewarnercable.com/t5/Connectivity/Predictable-disconnects/td-p/1016

The solution there confirms what we've been trying to tell you, and the irony here shouldn't be ignored.






That's just a quick search but it further confirms my suspicions you need to escalate the issue. The best part is I searched that error line, and the dude in on TW's forum has the same modem as you do. Again, the irony here shouldn't be ignored, press your ISP to escalate the matter. Just because it worked before, doesn't mean one should assume it will now...especially with ISP's.

Feel free to research that error some more based off of *my findings*, that's where I'd be looking if I were you. Sounds like you need to escalate your situation with your ISP, or as stated before, your device is having issues it wasn't prior.


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## videobruce (Nov 22, 2017)

eidairaman1 said:


> Mac can be changed too


How does one change a hardware MAC address??



AsRock said:


> Maybe he should just connect the computer directly to the modem and trouble shoot from that then see if it starts working. I know when i got a replacement modem i had to wait 30 minutes for the update start to finish.
> Maybe his is trying the same thing but not given time it's never going to work as it might be restarting as it was interrupted.


Never though of it, again, never had to and never had to wait that long.



eidairaman1 said:


> It is but if you have same exact modem it does help if you can get in to advanced interface and change it to match the other unit


How does one do or get one of those? I thought all of these were locked out except for the lame status screen.



SnakeDoctor said:


> Backup the old modems config to file (if working) and upload config file to new modem
> Restart modem


And you do that how??


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 22, 2017)

videobruce said:


> How does one change a hardware MAC address??
> 
> Never though of it, again, never had to and never had to wait that long.
> 
> ...



Depending on model there are ones that have a built in service interface, you have to be plugged in via ethernet from computer to modem, enter it's ip address in address bar of a web browser and a password prompt would appear. Hardware macs are encoded into the firmware/bios chip, however certain models they can be changed like those on a motherboard.


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## videobruce (Nov 22, 2017)

Kursah said:


> The way you explain your LAN address affecting your WAN address in prior posts to this are what confused me, and made me wonder WTF you were talking about, still not entirely sure if you felt it needed changed because of your WAN issue? You shouldn't have to change your LAN because of your WAN, period. You can change your router to any IP address in a /24 subnet between .1 and .254. That being said, .0 and .255 are reserved to identify and broadcast the LAN subnet.


Again, I'm sorry that I didn't make that clearer.
There were two issues, the 1st was the reason for the thread, the 2nd was just to correct for static LAN device IP issues due to being out of range. I didn't make that change to attempt to 'fix' the lack of getting the WAN address.


Kursah said:


> So the logs you posted for the Modem had a lot of repeated errors posted in them that means there's an obvious issue. The actual meaning of those errors is however not as obvious, so I did a quick copy and paste in Google of this: _Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8_


Yes, I couldn't help but notice the ridiculously long list of errors. 

I have found, even before all of this that those lights on that Modem border on useless, as they can all *look* 'good' but that doesn't mean all *is* good! 

This specific incident  comes on the heels of two others, the 1st has been reported to the NY State PSC (high latency & jitter at one of their hops causing dropped VoIP calls and some choppy/distorted audio), the 2nd MAY be the problem with the original Modem which should be in a different thread (massive drop in speed while 'streaming' from Amazon Prime causing complete loss of viewing) .



eidairaman1 said:


> Depending on model there are ones that have a built in service interface, you have to be plugged in via ethernet from computer to modem, enter it's ip address in address bar of a web browser and a password prompt would appear. Hardware macs are encoded into the firmware/bios chip, however certain models they can be changed like those on a motherboard.


All of that is news for me, I always thought MAC addresses are 'burned' into the device (other than O/S software 'spoofing' the number).


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## Kursah (Nov 22, 2017)

I have to agree that some modem indicator lights are more farce than fact. 

Interesting on the other issues as well, which both issues sound related due to bandwidth and latency issues which could greatly affect VoIP and streaming. I'd definitely suspect your ISP's infrastructure and abilities here. 

Also, please don't double post like you just have. It will be edited soon (I don't have edit permissions in this part of the forum). Double posting is against our forum guidelines and can end up resulting in infractions. Please see guidelines in my sig for more info.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 22, 2017)

Done ....... again.


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## videobruce (Nov 22, 2017)

Where did I double post??


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## Kursah (Nov 22, 2017)

videobruce said:


> Where did I double post??



It was edited by @Tatty_One , there were two posts within a couple of minutes prior. When you quote a user and reply, then do so again for someone else, that creates two separate posts and is a common example of double posting. That is against forum guidelines which can be reviewed from the link in my signature if you'd like to take a look. 

One solution is to use the Multi-Quote feature which stores quotes in a cache you can then paste into a post, or you could even keep using the reply button before posting your reply to post multiple quotes in the same post. That keeps things simple, and is what is desired here for posting. If someone posts after you do, and you post again, then that isn't an issue. But posting repeatedly in a row is against the rules here.

You have done that twice today alone and I believe Tatty edited both. We do so kindly so many times before we request you review our guidelines and ask that you learn to use features to keep post clutter down.

Let me know if that clears up any confusion!


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## videobruce (Nov 22, 2017)

Sorry, your quote function is very different then most forums and I wasn't sure how it was suppose to work. My apologies. 
There were so many replies and so many specifics in each I wanted to respond to as many as I could. without quoting the entire post and trying to break it down into sections afterwards.


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## Kursah (Nov 22, 2017)

videobruce said:


> Sorry, your quote function is very different then most forums and I wasn't sure how it was suppose to work. My apologies.
> There were so many replies and so many specifics in each I wanted to respond to as many as I could. without quoting the entire post and trying to break it down into sections afterwards.



No worries, we understand that the feature here is different from other sites, and other sites might not be as concerned with double posting as we are so there's some adjustment phases. It takes practice. I usually have a running post then click reply to quote someone else, see below.



Kursah said:


> Edited most of the post out to save space...
> 
> You have done that twice today alone and I believe Tatty edited both. We do so kindly so many times before we request you review our guidelines and ask that you learn to use features to keep post clutter down.
> Let me know if that clears up any confusion!



As you can see it quoted my previous post in the same post I'm replying to you on by just clicking reply. I prefer this method for how I work my quotes. Most times I'll edit/break down the quotes into chunks using the quote and /quote in brackets using the HTML tags once I have the content I want quoted into my post. Now I'll click reply again.



videobruce said:


> Where did I double post??



And there it adds it below what I just typed. 

As I said before some folks use the Multi-quote feature, which acts as a "quote cache". That might work for you as well. You will see an "Insert Quotes..." button at the bottom left, you open that and click Quote these messages, it'll insert them into your post. I'd suggest you mess around with both methods, see what works best for you. 

Sorry that your thread went off topic for this, and back on-topic have you reached out to your ISP again? I am curious if they'll play nice with your escalation request.


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## videobruce (Nov 23, 2017)

Kursah said:


> Have you reviewed the logs for both the router and modem? If so what did you find?
> Source: http://tobias-tobin.blogspot.com/2013/09/zoom-5341j-cable-modem-how-to-access.html
> Source 2: https://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Logging_with_DD-WRT#Displaying_logs_in_your_web_browser


Apparently, this Router does not allow logging. I tried to enable it, but it won't let me. Some other quirk issue, I don't remember exactly what.


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 23, 2017)

Make sure nothing was plugged into a fiber port.


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## videobruce (Nov 23, 2017)

Huh? What "fiber" port?


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