# New Performance/Gaming Computer Build, budget ~$1500 give or take



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 11, 2012)

*New Performance/Gaming Computer Build, estimated cost ~$2,100*







I currently have an MSI gaming laptop, a GT780DX. It is a very good computer, and I can play Skyrim on Ultra. It is an amazing PC, and for laptops it hardly gets any better than this. However, I have decided that since I have two laptops and I never take this laptop anywhere because it is a little too big to carry around, I will build a serious work/gaming PC instead and actually save money (or break even) and have more performance.

Moreover, I am realizing that to have a real PC it really expands my storage capabilities. I recently bought a 3TB USB 3.0 external for $250 and it was a good deal. But I already used up all but 300mb in only 1 month (although a lot was backing up my current hard drives).

So I realized that having a desktop, I can add in new 2TB 3.5" hard drives for less than $100 each. That Significantly decreases cost of storage and expansion.

I have done a bunch of research on parts. I have been dancing around doing this for over a year, and now it is time to move forward.

Since I just bought two 24" 1080p monitors, I won't be needing monitors. I also have a trackball (I don't like mice, just trackball) and also I just bought a nice illuminated keyboard. So now all I need is the tower. *EDIT:* I returned the Logitech illuminated keyboard and instead got the challenger ultimate keyboard.

After monitors and peripherals, I want to spend a max of about $800 - $1000 on the actual PC. So far it seems to be working out, but I could use some input as to me selections. I have two main builds, an AMD build and an Intel build. Both fit the budget, and the AMD of course is a little bit less expensive. (*UPDATE: HOLIDAY BUILD!!*)

================================================

PICTURES OF CHOSEN PARTS FOR BUILD:







*Peripherals:*​


Spoiler



*(LED)  $250	- Samsung SyncMaster 24" 1080P HDTV/Monitor
(LED)  $200	- Dell 23.5" 1080P Monitor
(KBD)  $50 - CHALLENGER ULTIMATE Multicolor Backlight Gaming Keyboard Black KB-CHU003US - SALE - was $100
(MSE)  $50 - Kensington Orbit Trackball with Scroll Ring
(BTH)  $10 - V4.0 Mini USB Wireless Bluetooth Class 2 Dual Mode Also V2.0 + Dongle EDR Adapter
(ADAP) $6 - 2.5" to 3.5" SSD HDD Mounting Bracket Adapter Kit by BYTECC - Fits two 2.5" HDD in one 3.5" Bay*
____________

= $646




*Build 1: AMD* | *TOTAL:* $1561​


Spoiler



(Case) $55	- Antec Gaming Series One ATX Mid Tower
(RAM)  $60	- 16GB (2 x 8GB) G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB 1600 DDR3
(PSU) $70	- OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W /or/ CORSAIR CX600 600W
(HDD)  $80	- 2TB SATA2 HDD Somewhere
(ODD) $35	- Internal DVD RW

= $305

(Mobo) $130 - MSI 990FXA-GD65V2 /or/ ASRock 990FX Extreme3
(CPU) $200	- AMD FX-8320 Vishera 3.5GHz (4.0GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 125W Eight-Core
(GPU) $250	- SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition OC 2GB

= $580


[Peripherals]
(WIFI)  $30 - Wireless-N 600 PCIe Card - EDIMAX EW-7722PnD N600 Wireless Dual-Band Adapter 

= $676




*Build 2: INTEL v.A* | *TOTAL:* $1626​


Spoiler



(Case) $55	- Antec Gaming Series One ATX Mid Tower
(RAM)  $60	- 16GB (2 x 8GB) G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB 1600 DDR3
(PSU) $70	- OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W /or/ CORSAIR CX600 600W
(HDD)  $80	- 2TB SATA2 HDD Somewhere
(ODD) $35	- Internal DVD RW

= $305

(Mobo) $130	- EVGA Z68 SLI Micro 120-SB-E682-KR LGA 1155 /or/ GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H ($150) /or/ GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD5H ($189)
(CPU) $265		- Intel Core i7-2600K 3.4 GHz Quad-Core 
(GPU) $250		- SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition OC 2GB

= $645


[Peripherals]
(WIFI)  $30 - Wireless-N 600 PCIe Card - EDIMAX EW-7722PnD N600 Wireless Dual-Band Adapter 

= $676




*Build 3: INTEL v.B - HOLIDAY SALES!!* | *TOTAL:* $2108 _(final price higher because of decision to get 2x graphics cards crossfire and more hdd and ssd)_
*Note: Included mostly upgraded parts that are around the same price range. So the cost is almost same as other builds (still less expensive) but is a better and more powerful build!*​


Spoiler



*(Case) $40	- Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower - SALE - was $60
(RAM)  $77	- Patriot Viper 3 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866
(PSU)  $60	- CORSAIR TX Series CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V v2.3 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE -- HUGE SALE $45 OFF + $25 MIR
(ODD)  $17	- ASUS 24X DVD Burner - SALE
(HDD)  $225	- Western Digital WD Green WD20EARX 2TB 64MB Cache SATAIII 6.0Gb/s x3 (6TB) - SALE 2TB SATA3 HDD
(SSD) $115 - OCZ Agility 4 256GB SATAIII 6.0Gb/s*

= $534


*(Mobo) $99	- MSI Z77A-G45 - SALE - was $130
(CPU)  $300 - Intel Core i7-3770K - Found one at MicroCenter.com (Before tax and shipping $229). - SALE - was $320 EDIT: Microcenter didn't work out. Bought on Newegg on Black Friday for $300 free ship.
(GPU)  $475 - SAPPHIRE HD 7950 3GB GDDR5 CROSSFIRE DUAL (x2) - Crazy Deal*

= $874


[Peripherals]
*(WIFI) $20 - D-Link DWA-566 Dual Band Wireless Adapter IEEE 802.11a/g/n PCI Express Up to 300Mbps - SALE!* (was Newegg for $100 sale for $70)
*(EXT)  $4 - 4x Extra 18" black color SataII Cables
(EXT)  $20 - Sata3 Extension Cables x5
(EXT)  $10 - DVI Cable*

= $700




*DIDN'T BUY*​


Spoiler



(Case) $65	- COOLER MASTER HAF 912 - SALE
(Case) $80	- COOLER MASTER HAF 922 - SALE + $15 rebate
(GPU)  $248 - GIGABYTE GV-R787OC-2GD Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 - SALE (only reason is because I got the 7950)

SOLD OUT:
(RAM)  $60	- 16GB (2 x 8GB) G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB 1600 DDR3 - SALE



--

Nice trance song I just found, for your enjoyment:


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## xxdozer322 (Nov 11, 2012)

build 3 hands down.


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## n3rdf1ght3r (Nov 11, 2012)

I would go with Build 3. I also have an old OCZ ModXStream 600W lying around that I could sell to you if you are interested, could prolly save you some money. I live in Canada though so ya.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 11, 2012)

n3rdf1ght3r said:


> I would go with Build 3. I also have an old OCZ ModXStream 600W lying around that I could sell to you if you are interested, could prolly save you some money. I live in Canada though so ya.



I live in Washington so Canada is actually very close. Right now I can get a 750W for only $60, but if you are selling the 600W for cheap then I will consider it.

Then again, others have warned me about buying used. Because then my system is not covered by warranty if it causes a problem and destroys my motherboard.


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## DrunkenMafia (Nov 11, 2012)

You need to squeeze an SSD in there it makes a huge speed difference to any pc and hunt around to try find a 660ti or 7950.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 11, 2012)

DrunkenMafia said:


> You need to squeeze an SSD in there it makes a huge speed difference to any pc and hunt around to try find a 660ti or 7950.



That is a really great idea - for only $100 now you can get a 120GB SSD.
Only thing is, considering market volatility surrounding SSD prices, it may be economical for me to hold off and upgrade that later. 6 months from now a 120GB SSD might be $80 or less. Point is, SSD is not urgent and it's a one-time buy. Unlike graphics cards, which there's always a newer and better one, SSD on the other hand is just storage; once you buy it, it will be kept for many years. I suppose that's why I didn't include it in the build. Just like, I intend to get like 5 or 6 more 2TB HDD, just not all at once. And for me, it would be more beneficial to spend $100 for 2TB more storage, then for the SSD performance increase.

I'm going to guess you meant 7850 though? Because a 7950 is $320 (actually there is one on NewEgg for $180 after $20 rebate)

I just checked and the 7870 is worlds ahead of the 7850: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/549?vs=548

EDIT:
I get it now. You were making suggestions for better graphics cards.
660ti is actually really good. So is 7950. 7950 however will be expensive until you can find it on sale.

660ti is $300 (20 mail-in-rebate card), MSI N660 Ti PE 2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB 192-...
7950 is $300 (20 mail-in-rebate card), but also includes Free 3 games w/ purchase, limited offer SAPPHIRE 100352-2L Radeon HD 7950 3GB 384-bit GDDR...


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## n3rdf1ght3r (Nov 11, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> I live in Washington so Canada is actually very close. Right now I can get a 750W for only $60, but if you are selling the 600W for cheap then I will consider it.
> 
> Then again, others have warned me about buying used. Because then my system is not covered by warranty if it causes a problem and destroys my motherboard.



LOL for 60 bucks the 750W is the better deal. I think the least I can let it go for is 50$CAD shipped.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 11, 2012)

So hey guys, am I missing anything? Obviously I'm going to do build 3, but are there are parts I am going to need that I don't have listed? Like fans or something?


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## n3rdf1ght3r (Nov 11, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> So hey guys, am I missing anything? Obviously I'm going to do build 3, but are there are parts I am going to need that I don't have listed? Like fans or something?



I would say to add a small Cache SSD to speed up your system and a good aftermarket CPU cooler(unless you already have that, then nevermind)


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## drdeathx (Nov 11, 2012)

My honest opinion, save the money and go AMD 8320 and up the GPU to a 7970  or GTX680. If you game this will be a better rig. BTW, what will you use the desktop for? That is a good question for the recommendation.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 11, 2012)

drdeathx said:


> My honest opinion, save the money and go AMD 8320 and up the GPU to a 7970  or GTX680. If you game this will be a better rig. BTW, what will you use the desktop for? That is a good question for the recommendation.



It's primarily a work computer but also for gaming.

-merged-

What is the difference between this motherboard:
MSI Z77MA-G45 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard with UEFI BIOS
And the one I have in the OP:
MSI Z77A-G45 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s US...

It's $7 more and there is an "M" in the model name


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## drdeathx (Nov 11, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> It's primarily a work computer but also for gaming.
> 
> -merged-
> 
> ...



I would seriously consider AMD to save a few $ and up that GPU. For your requirements, that would be better for you... IMO

One is an ATX and one is Micro ATX


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

drdeathx said:


> I would seriously consider AMD to save a few $ and up that GPU. For your requirements, that would be better for you... IMO
> 
> One is an ATX and one is Micro ATX



You don't understand what kind of work I do. I don't merely do Word documents. I need as much power as I can get my hands on. The faster and more powerful the computer, the more work I can get done.

Thanks for the clarification regarding the M. It seems the cheaper one is better, just larger.


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## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

drdeathx said:


> i would seriously consider amd to save a few $ and up that gpu. For your requirements, that would be better for you... Imo



x2



vawrvawerawe said:


> You don't understand what kind of work I do. I don't merely do Word documents. I need as much power as I can get my hands on. The faster and more powerful the computer, the more work I can get done.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification regarding the M. It seems the cheaper one is better, just larger.




What do you do then? Does it support true multithreading? If it does than the 8320 is a substantially better choice for now and the future.


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## Am* (Nov 12, 2012)

Whichever build you're going with, build 1 will be much cheaper with a lower end motherboard (990X, forget 990FX) & same CPU elsewhere (8320 can be found for $170, check microcenter). If going with build 3, go with a 3570K instead. Just pocket the difference towards a better GPU now or later on when you upgrade.


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## Sasqui (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> (Mobo) $99 - MSI Z77A-G45 - SALE - was $130
> (CPU) $269 - Intel Core i7-3770K - Found one at MicroCenter.com; perhaps I can find another that does not require to purchase in-store. - SALE - was $320
> (GPU) $248 - GIGABYTE GV-R787OC-2GD Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 - SALE
> 
> = $616





Am* said:


> Whichever build you're going with, build 1 will be much cheaper with a lower end motherboard (990X, forget 990FX) & same CPU elsewhere (8320 can be found for $170, check microcenter). If going with build 3, go with a 3570K instead. Just pocket the difference towards a better GPU now or later on when you upgrade.




If you can get to Microcenter, motherboards are $40 off if you buy a CPU, I walked out on Saturday with a 3570K and a Gigabyte UD5H for $330, including tax.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

Should I get 32GB RAM? only $30 each free ship DDR3 1600


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> x2
> What do you do then? Does it support true multithreading? If it does than the 8320 is a substantially better choice for now and the future.



Graphics and extreme multitasking. 8320 was my orignal choice. Other have convinced me to do the Intel build.



Am* said:


> Whichever build you're going with, build 1 will be much cheaper with a lower end motherboard (990X, forget 990FX) & same CPU elsewhere (8320 can be found for $170, check microcenter). If going with build 3, go with a 3570K instead. Just pocket the difference towards a better GPU now or later on when you upgrade.



Good idea; only thing is I don't have to decide on the processor tonight, but I do need to buy the motherboard tonight to get it for $99!



Sasqui said:


> If you can get to Microcenter, motherboards are $40 off if you buy a CPU, I walked out on Saturday with a 3570K and a Gigabyte UD5H for $330, including tax.



I REALLY WISH WE HAD A MICROCENTER AROUND HERE!!! p.s. Washington tax is 9.5%!!!  -- that's why we buy everything online and out-of state (NOT from Amazon because there is tax in WA!)


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## Am* (Nov 12, 2012)

Sasqui said:


> If you can get to Microcenter, motherboards are $40 off if you buy a CPU, I walked out on Saturday with a 3570K and a Gigabyte UD5H for $330, including tax.



Lucky sod. We'd have to pay that sort of money in pounds because all our asshole retailers fix prices, which means we never get these sorts of killer deals unless someone is going bust.



vawrvawerawe said:


> Should I get 32GB RAM? only $30 each free ship DDR3 1600



No, don't waste it. 16GB is way more than enough. Put the rest towards a GPU.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

Am* said:


> No, don't waste it. 16GB is way more than enough. Put the rest towards a GPU.



Ok.

So, what I have to decide on and buy today (to get the sales):
Motherboard
PSU
Case
RAM
DVD Drive

buying those from the OP, Build 3, except for getting the $29.99 deal of Antec 300 Case, total is:

$316.94 to pay now [minus] $50MIR = $266.94

Only thing I'm still not sure of is the case. Antec Gaming One is only $25 more, and would only increase today's cost by $10 and no worry about MIR for that one.


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## Sasqui (Nov 12, 2012)

Am* said:


> No, don't waste it. 16GB is way more than enough. Put the rest towards a GPU.



Yes, and get faster, DDR3 2166 or more


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

Sasqui said:


> Yes, and get faster, DDR3 2166 or more



Oh, I never considered that.

Update: wow, talk about *Significantly* increasing the price!! just 1866 is more than twice the cost, and 2400 is over 4 times the cost! 
I think I'll stick with the 1600 for now and later I can upgrade if desired. Rather spend that extra amount on a SSD than RAM.


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## Am* (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Ok.
> 
> So, what I have to decide on and buy today (to get the sales):
> Motherboard
> ...



Dude, they are selling the 3570K for $169 bucks...pocket the $100 difference, for God's sake. I would kill for that deal. Hyperthreading won't improve anything for a gaming build, you'll end up regretting wasting the cash on what is a useless feature anyway.



vawrvawerawe said:


> *UPDATE: Please tell me where you saw that price for the 3570K for $169*



EDIT: It was Microcenter as well. See here.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

Am* said:


> Dude, they are selling the 3570K for $169 bucks...pocket the $100 difference, for God's sake. I would kill for that deal. Hyperthreading won't improve anything for a gaming build, you'll end up regretting wasting the cash on what is a useless feature anyway.



Let me take another look.

p.s. I have decided at last on the original case, the Antec Gaming Series One, my original choice in the OP.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

UPDATE: Please tell me where you saw that price for the 3570K for $169

Ok, you are talking about here: http://www.microcenter.com/product/388577/Core_i5_3570K_34GHz_LGA_1155_Processor
Unfortunately, it is *In-Store Pickup Only*.

In any case, it's not urgent to buy that today wince the sale does not end today anyway. For now I need to focus on the urgent deals.


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## Sasqui (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Update: wow, talk about Significantly increasing the price!! just 1866 is more than twice the cost, and 2400 is over 4 times the cost!
> I think I'll stick with the 1600 for now and later I can upgrade if desired. Rather spend that extra amount on a SSD than RAM.



2133 Cas 11 (not that great) for $34 right now with promo code:  G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 S...

I Bought 2 of these 2133 Cas 9 for $53 each when they had a special running:  G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 S...


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

Sasqui said:


> 2133 Cas 11 (not that great) for $34 right now with promo code:  G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 S...
> 
> I Bought 2 of these 2133 Cas 9 for $53 each when they had a special running:  G.SKILL Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 S...



I want minimum of 16GB. This means for 1600 I can get 16GB for $60, or for that one 2133 I can get 16GB for $90. Rather not pay 33% for for a minor increase.
Actually, that might be a good deal except I want 2x8GB so I can have 32GB later.


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## Irony (Nov 12, 2012)

I've got that gskill RAM you're wanting, Definitely recommend. It overclocks fairly well too if you're interested in that. Also 16gb is quite enough.

I would also say to save the 100 bucks, and pick up the 3570k and put it into graphics and/or case. Unless you're really convinced that the multithreading will be that important to you. If you'll be doing mostly gaming 3570k is throughly sufficient.


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## Sasqui (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Actually, that might be a good deal except I want 2x8GB so I can have 32GB later.



Yea, that makes sense.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

Irony said:


> I've got that gskill RAM you're wanting, Definitely recommend. It overclocks fairly well too if you're interested in that. Also 16gb is quite enough.
> 
> I would also say to save the 100 bucks, and pick up the 3570k and put it into graphics and/or case. Unless you're really convinced that the multithreading will be that important too you. If you'll be doing mostly gaming 3570k is throughly sufficient.



I can't pick it up because I think the nearest MicroCenter is like 1000 miles away. How much for the ram and specs?

-merged-

Ok, so far, for:

Motherboard
PSU
Case
RAM
DVD Drive
_________

$326.93 [minus] $35MIR = $291.93
(unless Irony gives me a better deal on RAM)


--

Left to get after I click BUY:

HDD
CPU
GPU
WIFI Card

--

I got to go, I will be back in an hour to finalize the current sale.


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## Irony (Nov 12, 2012)

Oh, sorry man, I wasn't saying I had it to sell; I was just testifying that its great RAM and that I have it in my rig. I guess that did sound a bit misleading, lol.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

*Okay guys, I am back, ready to finish this up for the night*



Irony said:


> Oh, sorry man, I wasn't saying I had it to sell; I was just testifying that its great RAM and that I have it in my rig. I guess that did sound a bit misleading, lol.



No problem buddy, I am perfectly happy with the current price.


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## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Graphics and extreme multitasking. 8320 was my orignal choice. Other have convinced me to do the Intel build.



Well for the money you save going with an 8320 and 970 series board to get 16GB of ram and a 7950. Beats the i5 build on both accounts night and day. Multitasking is the *8* core FX series bread and butter, better video card means better gaming. Were do you think the i5 performs better in those scenarios?


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Well for the money you save going with an 8320 and 970 series board to get 16GB of ram and a 7950. Beats the i5 build on both accounts night and day. Multitasking is the *8* core FX series bread and butter, better video card means better gaming. Were do you think the i5 performs better in those scenarios?



Yes but it does not even come close to the i7 2770K and especially not the 3770K.


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## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Yes but it does not even come close to the i7 2770K and especially not the 3770K.



WTF is a 2770K. It beats the 2600K pretty handily in multitasking and the 3770K in quite a few things as well. Considering it is more than double the price that is embarrassing.

$549.99 without the rebate and *with* the 7950 add another 16GB of ram to it if you want or bump to the FX 8350 heck order a water cooler. Your choice all of them are STILL cheaper than the 3570K/3770K combo with a 7870.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> WTF is a 2770K. It beats the 2600K pretty handily in multitasking and the 3770K in quite a few things as well. Considering it is more than double the price that is embarrassing.



2700K I meant. But 3770K is the same price.
Also it is almost double the performance in most areas in the benchmark at http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/698?vs=551.[/B]

--

I just finished purchasing:
*Motherboard
PSU
DVD Drive

The RAM is SOLD OUT* 
Was only a savings of $5 though.

*By the way, they require you to buy each one individually because of all the coupon codes. So you have to do a bunch of different purchases, not just add it all to your cart.*

--

Ok so I think I'm coming to the final question.

I need to know how the graphics card and PSU will fit in the case.
I am seriously considering the COOLER MASTER HAF 912 case.


** The 912 case is 19.5" in depth.
* The Sapphire Radeon HD 7870 is 10.24" in length.
* The 750W PSU is 6.3" in length.*

Will I have to remove the 3.5" HDD cage to fit that graphics card, or can I leave it in?
I'm going to guess that the 3.5" HDD cage is about 4.5" across, considering that 3.5" HDD are 4.01" in width.

```
19.5" - 7.5" = 12" space for PCIe
```
If this is right, then there should be enough space for the graphics card without removing the 3.5" HDD cage.

Will I have to remove the 2.5" HDD cage to fit the PSU?
I'm going to guess that the 2.5" HDD cage is 3" across, considering that the width of a 2.5" HDD is 2.75" width.

```
4.5" + 3" = 7.5" space HDD cages take up before PSU space
19.5" - 7.5" = ~12.5" space for PSU
```
If this is right, then there should be plenty of space for the PSU without removing the 2.5" HDD cage.


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## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> 2700K I meant. But 3770K is the same price.
> Also it is almost double the performance in some areas, and other areas much more than double the performance of the 8320.



In what super pi? I have read quite a few reviews and minus the absolutely terrible one available from [H] no one has shown that. I would also like you to link me to a gaming benchmark were the FX 8320 with a 7950 is outperformed by an i5/i7 with a 7870.

Good luck with the build I doubt you will disappointed just find it odd for what you are specifically doing you went with the weaker chip for you.



vawrvawerawe said:


> By the way, they require you to buy each one individually because of all the coupon codes. So you have to do a bunch of different purchases, not just add it all to your cart.



Wrong


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## Irony (Nov 12, 2012)

It should all work out fine. I have a friend with a 7950 in a haf 912, fits fine. 

Hey, might you be interested in a haf 922? I've got one I could sell you.


Edit: idk if you're in love with the corsair psu but OCZ 700 is a few bucks cheaper, and modular too; which is a big plus in a small case.
OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W Modular High Performance P...


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## erocker (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> The 912 case is 19.5" in depth.
> The SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7870 is 10.24" in length.
> The 750W PSU is 6.3" in length.
> 
> ...



Graphics card and PSU will fit in that case with no problem. Nothing will have to be removed.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> In what super pi? I have read quite a few reviews and minus the absolutely terrible one available from [H] no one has shown that. I would also like you to link me to a gaming benchmark were the FX 8320 with a 7950 is outperformed by an i5/i7 with a 7870.
> 
> Good luck with the build I doubt you will disappointed just find it odd for what you are specifically doing you went with the weaker chip for you.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/121111/Capture032.jpg




Regarding the simultaneous purchasing:
It didn't show any errors until I was at the final page after authorizing paypal. It erased all my coupons without telling me (except for error for the coupon codes at top of page). I almost paid an extra $100. Good thing I was paying attention.

Regarding the benchmarks:
I was wrong, it's not double, but it is almost double the performance on almost everything.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/698?vs=551




Irony said:


> It should all work out fine. I have a friend with a 7950 in a haf 912, fits fine.
> 
> Hey, might you be interested in a haf 922? I've got one I could sell you



Excellent.
Yes, I might be interested! How much?



erocker said:


> Graphics card and PSU will fit in that case with no problem. Nothing will have to be removed.



Excellent, thank you!


----------



## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/698?vs=551
> 
> Regarding the simultaneous purchasing:
> It didn't show any errors until I was at the final page after authorizing paypal. It erased all my coupons without telling me (except for error for the coupon codes at top of page). I almost paid an extra $100. Good thing I was paying attention.



Very interesting I have ordered multiple discounts on many many occasions. 



vawrvawerawe said:


> Regarding the benchmarks:
> I was wrong, it's not double, but it is almost double the performance on almost everything.



read again



Spoiler


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Very interesting I have ordered multiple discounts on many many occasions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




hmm, I don't know what to believe. But I have already bought the intel motherboard so it's too late to go back.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

Irony said:


> It should all work out fine. I have a friend with a 7950 in a haf 912, fits fine.
> 
> Hey, might you be interested in a haf 922? I've got one I could sell you.
> 
> ...



Yes, I am interested in the 922. How much are you selling it for?


----------



## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> hmm, I don't know what to believe. But I have already bought the intel motherboard so it's too late to go back.



Which did you even go with you keep linking the 3770K for everything and mentioning the 3570K. Oh and your own link lists 1 benchmark that the 3770K ($319.99) beats the 8320 ($179.99) almost double and that is single threaded cinebench which is a pretty worthless benchmark.

There is a cancel button for your orders.


----------



## Irony (Nov 12, 2012)

Was asking about 75 for it; free shipping


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Which did you even go with you keep linking the 3770K for everything and mentioning the 3570K.



I never wanted the 3570. I wanted the 3770K.



Irony said:


> Was asking about 75 for it; free shipping



Let me think... what is the condition? Pics?



cdawall said:


> Which did you even go with you keep linking the 3770K for everything and mentioning the 3570K. Oh and your own link lists 1 benchmark that the 3770K ($319.99) beats the 8320 ($179.99) almost double and that is single threaded cinebench which is a pretty worthless benchmark.
> 
> There is a cancel button for your orders.



Originally I was going to do the AMD build.
But, people convinced me that I should do the Intel build.

If you can provide some more compelling evidence that I should get the AMD build, then I am open to changing over. It's part of the reason I made several builds, one AMD and one Intel.

Moreover, I would be really happy to save $100 or $200 (by getting the AMD build instead) and have the same or better performance.


----------



## Irony (Nov 12, 2012)

Its in good condition. I'll take some pics here in a minute.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

Irony said:


> Its in good condition. I'll take some pics here in a minute.



Great, I'll be waiting


----------



## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Originally I was going to do the AMD build.
> But, people convinced me that I should do the Intel build.
> 
> If you can provide some more compelling evidence that I should get the AMD build, then I am open to changing over. It's part of the reason I made several builds, one AMD and one Intel.








See the 7950 a couple bars down that's the price difference.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_7870_Flex/images/perfrel.gif
> 
> See the 7950 a couple bars down that's the price difference.



I know the price difference for the Graphics card is certainly the reason why I am choosing AMD/ATI instead of NVIDIA. We are definitely on the same page there.
p.s. the 660ti or 7950 is 17% more ($50) than the 7850; but according to that chart, only provides 9% more performance increase.

But the question here is about the Motherboard/Processor. You're suggesting for me to click cancel on the Intel motherboard and get AMD motherboard instead and go with 8320 8-core AMD processor.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> I know the price difference for the Graphics card is certainly the reason why I am choosing AMD/ATI instead of NVIDIA. We are definitely on the same page there.
> 
> But the question here is about the Motherboard/Processor. You're suggesting for me to click cancel on the Intel motherboard and get AMD motherboard instead and go with 8320 8-core AMD processor.



*YES* because you mentioned gaming so the unnoticeable performance difference is replaced by a noticeable one. You also mention doing multitasking/multithreading I linked you about a ton benchmarks showing that the substantially cheaper CPU can perform as well if not better than the 3770K in that style of application.

All of that while being a good chunk less expensive giving you the option to go with other higher performance parts (SSD, more ram, better VGA you take your pick)


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> *YES* because you mentioned gaming so the unnoticeable performance difference is replaced by a noticeable one. You also mention doing multitasking/multithreading I linked you about a ton benchmarks showing that the substantially cheaper CPU can perform as well if not better than the 3770K in that style of application.
> 
> All of that while being a good chunk less expensive giving you the option to go with other higher performance parts (SSD, more ram, better VGA you take your pick)



So why do people buy Intel then if AMD is so much better? Serious question, I hope it doesn't come across as sarcastic because it's not intended to be sarcastic.


----------



## dude12564 (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> So why do people buy Intel then if AMD is so much better? Serious question, I hope it doesn't come across as sarcastic because it's not intended to be sarcastic.



Because of assumptions that Intel is better than AMD. Which it is sometimes. Not quite in Performance/Price though.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

dude12564 said:


> Because of the blindness that is assumptions that Intel is always better than AMD.



What about heat and power efficiency?


----------



## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> So why do people buy Intel then if AMD is so much better? Serious question, I hope it doesn't come across as sarcastic because it's not intended to be sarcastic.



Because if you had an unlimited budget it is better. Depending on the games you play it can perform better as well (most of those games an i3 does better than an i7 as well). Depends on what you really want to do the 8320/8350 are quite good processors for the money. For the cost of an i5 you can get the performance of an i7 in multitasking, but only get roughly the performance of an i3 in single threading. Since single core IPC is of a dieing breed I would take the processor that has a substantially better bang for the buck in multicore performance.



vawrvawerawe said:


> What about heat and power efficiency?



Well there are no threads about the FX series running at 80-90C on the stock coolers like there are for the 3570K/3770K. As for power efficiency intel wins hands down and when that starts to bother me I will spend the money on a Via Nano.


----------



## dude12564 (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> What about heat and power efficiency?



I think Intel is better at power efficiency, but Piledriver improved over Bulldozer.

In terms of heat, Ivy Bridge is churning out more heat due to Intel cheaping out on the what should be soldered IHS. It's more apparent when you OC, with voltage increases.

EDIT: that's compared to Sandy bridge.


----------



## Irony (Nov 12, 2012)

Intel makes very efficient space heaters.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Because if you had an unlimited budget it is better. Depending on the games you play it can perform better as well (most of those games an i3 does better than an i7 as well). Depends on what you really want to do the 8320/8350 are quite good processors for the money. For the cost of an i5 you can get the performance of an i7 in multitasking, but only get roughly the performance of an i3 in single threading. Since single core IPC is of a dieing breed I would take the processor that has a substantially better bang for the buck in multicore performance.
> 
> 
> 
> Well there are no threads about the FX series running at 80-90C on the stock coolers like there are for the 3570K/3770K. As for power efficiency intel wins hands down and when that starts to bother me I will spend the money on a Via Nano.



Via Nano - never heard of it


----------



## dude12564 (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Via Nano - never heard of it



VIA is the third "known" x86 CPU manufacturer. They typically make embedded boards for low-cost systems.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

dude12564 said:


> VIA is the third "known" x86 CPU manufacturer. They typically make embedded boards for low-cost systems.



Performance? Just curious

--

Ok so I have to now look for RAM again. Because I missed out on the deal I was about 3 minutes too late, because they sold out FAST. Possibly partly because of my threads and links to it in this and another forum.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Via Nano - never heard of it



It's a 12w dual core processor that eats the Atom for lunch and performs on par if not better than AMD's offerings with less power consumption.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Nano_X2/VIA-Nano X2 U4300.html


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> It's a 12w dual core processor that eats the Atom for lunch and performs on par if not better than AMD's offerings with less power consumption.
> 
> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Nano_X2/VIA-Nano X2 U4300.html



Interesting.

--

@Irony: Still waiting on those case pics.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Interesting.
> 
> --
> 
> @Irony: Still waiting on those case pics.



Yea it was a quip at the power consumption comment. It is one of those things that makes zero difference to me in a high end PC.


----------



## Irony (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> makes zero difference to me in a high end PC.



Pretty much sums it up for alot of enthusiasts, I would say. Lulz, the lights flicker in my house when I power my PC on. It almost induces evil laughter...


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

Irony said:


> Pretty much sums it up for alot of enthusiasts, I would say. Lulz, the lights flicker in my house when I power my PC on. It almost induces evil laughter...



Well I don't pay the electric bill. So I don't want to kill my landlord with extremely high electric bills. I don't want it to be any more than what I currently use, if possible. The AC adapter for my GT780DX is literally a PSU and about half the size of one. It's a freaking brick.

I just calculated the wattage of my AC Adapter/PSU for my laptop: 180.5 Watts. 19v/9.5A That's one serious AC Adapter for a laptop!!!

--

What do you think of the following RAM?

1600

Komputerbay 16GB 2x 8GB DDR3 PC3-12800 1600MHz DIMM C10 Black Heatspreader 16 GB

CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

1866

Patriot Viper 3 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 15000)

G.SKILL Sniper Gaming Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866

--


----------



## dude12564 (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Well I don't pay the electric bill. So I don't want to kill my landlord with extremely high electric bills. I don't want it to be any more than what I currently use, if possible. The AC adapter for my GT780DX is literally a PSU and about half the size of one. It's a freaking brick.
> 
> I just calculated the wattage of my AC Adapter/PSU for my laptop: 180.5 Watts. 19v/9.5A That's one serious AC Adapter for a laptop!!!
> 
> ...



i have never heard of that brand. but then it might not be sold in canada.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

Here's a couple Newegg links:

Which is better or more reliable/trusted?

Patriot Viper 3 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ...

G.SKILL Sniper Gaming Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pi...

--


----------



## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

edit:

Pause clicked the wrong check box!

AVEXIR Standard Series 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) Dual Cha...


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> edit:
> 
> Pause clicked the wrong check box!
> 
> AVEXIR Standard Series 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) Dual Cha...



For only $9 more I could up it to 1866 with the Patriot Viper - should I get it?


----------



## Novulux (Nov 12, 2012)

So are you going with an HD 7950?


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

Novulux said:


> So are you going with an HD 7950?



I don't think so because of the price. $300 vs $250 for the 7870. Do you think it's worth the extra $50?

And I really need to decide on this RAM so please help


----------



## cdawall (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> For only $9 more I could up it to 1866 with the Patriot Viper - should I get it?



Yes



vawrvawerawe said:


> I don't think so because of the price. $300 vs $250 for the 7870. Do you think it's worth the extra $50?
> 
> And I really need to decide on this RAM so please help



Depends on the resolution.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 12, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Yes
> 
> Depends on the resolution.



Primarily 1 x 1920x1080 @ 60Hz (1080p) 24"

Occasionally and perhaps in the future regularly, a second 1080p monitor 23"

Perhaps in the future a third 1080p monitor, but maybe not.


----------



## drdeathx (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> I don't think so because of the price. $300 vs $250 for the 7870. Do you think it's worth the extra $50?
> 
> And I really need to decide on this RAM so please help



Last time I suggest it, get the AMD 8320 and up the GPU to a Radeon 7970..... A much better all around rig.....


----------



## repman244 (Nov 12, 2012)

dude12564 said:


> In terms of heat, Ivy Bridge is churning out more heat due to Intel cheaping out on the what should be soldered IHS



It doesn't output more heat, it only runs with higher temperature (temperature != heat) due to the reason you already mentioned.

Anyway I think I would agree with *drdeathx*, the 8320 is really a solid CPU (and great for it's price), put the money towards a better GPU if you're into gaming.


----------



## Irony (Nov 12, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Here's a couple Newegg links:
> 
> Which is better or more reliable/trusted?
> 
> ...



Both are excellent brands



vawrvawerawe said:


> For only $9 more I could up it to 1866 with the Patriot Viper - should I get it?



Yes.



vawrvawerawe said:


> I don't think so because of the price. $300 vs $250 for the 7870. Do you think it's worth the extra $50?



I think so. Idk if you're willing to pay 400 for graphics, but you can get a good 7970 for that. Buying the 3570 over 3770 would pretty much pay for the difference.


----------



## drdeathx (Nov 12, 2012)

repman244 said:


> It doesn't output more heat, it only runs with higher temperature (temperature != heat) due to the reason you already mentioned.
> 
> Anyway I think I would agree with *drdeathx*, the 8320 is really a solid CPU (and great for it's price), put the money towards a better GPU if you're into gaming.



Thanks Repman

If ya want some inexpensive memory that really kicked ass, The Crucial Ballistix Sport Series 8GB Kit (4GBx2) DDR3 PC3-12800, 1600MHz. They performed as good as GSkill 2400MHz Tridents even at cas 11and you can find them for as little as $40 for 2 x 4G.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 13, 2012)

-


----------



## cdawall (Nov 13, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Newegg keeps declining my PayPal payment. PayPal said the problem isn't on their end. PayPal told me specifically, quote: "The problem is on Newegg's end". And the money is there. PayPal said they tried to send the money to newegg, but Newegg refused to accept the authorization. I tried four times but every one failed.
> 
> So apparently I can't buy anything from Newegg because of this bug in their system...
> 
> If you ask me, they're just trying to force me to use my credit card instead of PayPal. No way.



Used PP with them 3 days ago without issue. Make sure on the purchase screen you are selecting the correct funding source I have made that mistake before.



vawrvawerawe said:


> The first four items went through. The case and RAM (fifth item) keeps not going through. It's not a problem on my end. The problem is with Newegg. I have been talking with them about this for over 24 hours now.
> 
> I'm doing the exact same thing as I did the last 4 times. I'm not doing anything wrong. In chat, Newegg let it slip that they had this problem before with other users.
> 
> ...



I bet you they have an issue with the number of PP transactions from your account.


----------



## manofthem (Nov 13, 2012)

Just use your credit card without PP.  Don't miss out on a good sale


----------



## cdawall (Nov 13, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Well then I don't have the safety of PayPal. PayPal always refunds me if I have a problem. I am using Newegg's Ebay store. Same exact prices, free ship.



Whatever works. As for the PP safety net...your credit card has the same protection...


----------



## manofthem (Nov 13, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Well then I don't have the safety of PayPal. PayPal always refunds me if I have a problem. I am using Newegg's Ebay store. Same exact prices, free ship.



Credit cards offer protection also, but I understand the desire to use PP in eBay.  I hope you're not planning on having a problem


----------



## cdawall (Nov 13, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Yes, except I have to walk into my bank, spend 30 minutes waiting for someone, pay a $40 cancellation fee, and even then it probably won't actually be canceled since I did authorize the payment.
> 
> Paypal has refunded me *thousands of dollars* over the years that the sellers refused to refund.



And I assume it's people like as to why PP is as terrible for the seller as it is.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 13, 2012)

Everything is fixed with PayPal.

All I have left now is CPU and GPU.


----------



## Irony (Nov 13, 2012)

I saw that on microcenter. Awesome deal; I've had a friend who lives near a microcenter buy stuff for me, sometimes its so much cheaper that the difference will pay for shipping and still be significantly cheaper.

You decide on gpu yet?

Edit: why'd you delete your posts?


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 14, 2012)

Irony said:


> I saw that on microcenter. Awesome deal; I've had a friend who lives near a microcenter buy stuff for me, sometimes its so much cheaper that the difference will pay for shipping and still be significantly cheaper.
> 
> You decide on gpu yet?
> 
> Edit: why'd you delete your posts?



Someone on this forum agreed to get one and ship it to me. I paid him on PayPal. Getting the 3770K.

I am not 100% yet on the GPU, but I think I've narrowed it down to these three in this thread. I am pretty certain though that I want to get the Radeon 7870. Just which one is the question now. Still learning about all that everything means. There are so many kinds and brands of the exact same graphics chip.

The PayPal posts were irrelevant to the thread and detracted from the purpose. And the problem was cleared up, so it served no purpose to be in this thread.

Does this RAM LIGHT UP?? AVEXIR Core Series 16GB Kit (4 x 4GB) Quad Channel...

Update: found this thread, shows that YES, they do light up!! COOLLL http://forums.pureoverclock.com/memory-overclocking/18427-new-avexir-core-series-ram.html


----------



## cdawall (Nov 14, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Does this RAM LIGHT UP?? AVEXIR Core Series 16GB Kit (4 x 4GB) Quad Channel...



Is this a serious question right now


----------



## the54thvoid (Nov 14, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Does this RAM LIGHT UP?? AVEXIR Core Series 16GB Kit (4 x 4GB) Quad Channel...



Hi there,

I saw a very early post where you asked a question and someone said google it.  You rightly were annoyed because it's okay to ask for help but i can't quite shake the feeling you are just building posts up.

You have asked if that memory lights up and include a link to it.  The link - yourlink- has a description that clearly states:



> -Dynamic Red LED light



Why on earth are you posting a question about a product you already know the answer too?

Please excuse me for being a bit off but you're pushing the boundaries of seeking help and spam posting.

Sorry to all if I'm being rude but we all help a lot but honestly it's like me saying this:

Does this have wheels:
http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/?fmccmp=lp-cars-top-hp-mustang

EDIT: Cdawall beat me to it!


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 14, 2012)

Yea, I didn't see the red led in the description at first; I found it hard to believe there was LEDs on the actual RAM. But further searching I found it I just was hoping for some feedback here in regards to the light-up RAM.

p.s. depends on at which phase in the build process; the wheels come last so your answer is yes and no


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 14, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> I've only posted like 20 posts today and I really don't care about post count. Why does anyone? It's just numbers on a screen. Seriously.
> 
> Yea, I didn't see the red led in the description at first; I found it hard to believe there was LEDs on the actual RAM. But further searching I found it I just was hoping for some feedback here in regards to the light-up RAM.
> 
> p.s. depends on at which phase in the build process; the wheels come last so your answer is yes and no



i remember corsair and crucial having LEDs for ram


----------



## dude12564 (Nov 14, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> i remember corsair and crucial having LEDs for ram



Corsair's Dominator Platinum now has a LED light bar installed.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 14, 2012)

dude12564 said:


> Corsair's Dominator Platinum now has a LED light bar installed.



ya i havent looked at product pages in sometime for either of them i just recall them having LED products lol


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 14, 2012)

dude12564 said:


> Corsair's Dominator Platinum now has a LED light bar installed.



$800 for 16GB of RAM?

Maybe for those who have so much money they can't possibly spend it all (billionaires). For the rest of us, no thanks!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 14, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> $800 for 16GB of RAM?
> 
> Maybe for those who have so much money they can't possibly spend it all (billionaires). For the rest of us, no thanks!



thats corsair for you in price. Honestly Look at GSkill


----------



## dude12564 (Nov 14, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> $800 for 16GB of RAM?
> 
> Maybe for those who have so much money they can't possibly spend it all (billionaires). For the rest of us, no thanks!



Just pointing out there that Corsair does make RAM with lights. Yes, this RAM is for people who can spend all that money, but for a 8GB Kit, you can get it for $100 ish
. But then that's 1600, so you just get bragging rights.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 14, 2012)

dude12564 said:


> Just pointing out there that Corsair does make RAM with lights. Yes, this RAM is for people who can spend all that money, but for a 8GB Kit, you can get it for $100 ish
> . But then that's 1600, so you just get bragging rights.



NCIX Canada version of the site (.ca) will NOT ship to the USA, even if it's 50 miles away. You have to use the USA version of the site, which is in general around 20% to 50% higher prices (after the conversion rate which is basically 1:1). But, they have a set for 16GB here for $155 on the--- EDIT -- that's the CA site too. There is 8GB for $80 for 8GB 1600 and $121 for 8GB 2166 on the US version of the site.

I already got my RAM though. I got 16GB 1866 ram for $77.


----------



## RCoon (Nov 14, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> I've only posted like 20 posts today and I really don't care about post count. Why does anyone? It's just numbers on a screen. Seriously.
> 
> Yea, I didn't see the red led in the description at first; I found it hard to believe there was LEDs on the actual RAM. But further searching I found it I just was hoping for some feedback here in regards to the light-up RAM.
> 
> p.s. depends on at which phase in the build process; the wheels come last so your answer is yes and no



I think you and everyone else got off on the wrong foot. Everybody thinks that _in your best interest_, you should post anything and everything about computer parts that you may or may not use in your $1500 pc build all in one thread. After all, the mods would very much like to keep their forums nice and tidy 
Then there's the random thread like submerged pc topic, and then the creation of a submerged pc in a fish tank topic which also could have been merged into the same sort of topic. There is an enormous well of knowledge on these forums, and I think people are just mentioning things to you to keep your posting style a little tidier. You never know when somebody could come along in your exact shoes and be looking for the same information. Then they could find what theyre looking for in your single thread instead of trawling through multiple topics and posts.


----------



## Irony (Nov 14, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> I already got my RAM though. I got 16GB 1866 ram for $77.



Then why are we still talking about ram for 35 posts...


----------



## RCoon (Nov 14, 2012)

Irony said:


> Then why are we still talking about ram for 35 posts...



He likes to talk about RAM?


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 14, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> thats corsair for you in price. Honestly Look at GSkill



And here I thought Corsair ram was budget ram...


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 15, 2012)

I got the keyboard today. It is a very high quality look and feel. However, the keys themselves do not light up very brightly. Also the feel of the keypress is kind of dull. That's the only way I can describe it. Makes me actually crave the click :/

That said, it really does do a FULL color spectrum of backlight. You can have up to 5 profiles with the software. Personally I use white all the time. I only cared about the white backlight; although being able to change the colors is cool. Also it gives thee option to turn off the Tt big red logo light, with each profile. This is nice. 







 There are programmable macro keys on the right and left. It takes a bit of a learning curve though and I'm still not sure how to define it was a key. But, it makes it easy to link it to a program.

















You need to make sure to click the "upload" button in the software after you finish. But there is a popup that reminds you to save if you try to close the software without saving. Then after you save, you need to click the profile key on the keyboard to switch to your new profile.






The minus key for some reason does not work (the one next to 0 above the letter keys; the number pad minus key works). All the other keys work fine. The plug-in hand-fan is pretty cool (no pun intended); although I found it was a bit cold. But good if your room is warm. There is a large port on the top back left (facing monitor) in which you can place the hand fan when you are not using it.

The keyboard actually has two onboard USB ports for plugging in other things. This is useful, you can plug a mouse and other things in; although it does not provide enough power for a 2.5" external HDD.  It also has a physical headphone and microphone jack (although when I use a microphone I use a USB microphone).

Overall, although the keys could be brighter, it is a good solid keyboard of sturdy construction.


------------------------

All that said, I just bought the Logitech G110 also. I liked how it has an individual LED for each key - hopefully the keys will be brighter. It also allows to customize it to be whatever color you want. It's a good price, too.
I am going to try them both and choose one. Then I will sell the other.

Logitech G110 pictures:








I was going to get the Luxeed U7 Crossover, but I couldn't find it anywhere. I think they have been discontinued and I don't know if the company is even in business anymore.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 15, 2012)

Do I need a 3.5" bay to 2.5" HDD adapter to put in a 2.5" hard drive into Rosewill Challenger case?

Also, will it come with all the needed SATA plugs or will I need to have a SATA expansion adapter?


----------



## Irony (Nov 15, 2012)

The page for it on newegg says it comes with an adapter to fit 2 2.5s in a 3.5 slot


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 15, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> And here I thought Corsair ram was budget ram...



Corsair Ram is Really good just the price is too much for them when Mushkin, Gskill make really good ram for better pricing


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 17, 2012)

PSU does not turn on. It is connected to the motherboard and I tried another outlet, but I know for sure both outlets work. Processor and RAM are not installed, but PSU should at least still turn on, and fans and lights should turn on. But absolutely nothing happens. Returning for RMA replacement.

Motherboard comes with only two SATA cables, so it looks like I'm going to need to buy some more cables for extra hard drives.
--Update: bought four (black) SataII cables on ebay for $4.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 17, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> PSU does not turn on. It is connected to the motherboard and I tried another outlet, but I know for sure both outlets work. Processor and RAM are not installed, but PSU should at least still turn on, and fans and lights should turn on. But absolutely nothing happens. Returning for RMA replacement.
> 
> Motherboard comes with only two SATA cables, so it looks like I'm going to need to buy some more cables for extra hard drives.



Bench run your motherboard and necessary components on non conductive and static free surface. a motherboard normally needs a cpu installed first before it will power up. grounding issue it sounds like. reset the cmos too. read your motherboard and system components manuals. do not run cpu without heatsink installed properly


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 17, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> Bench run your motherboard and necessary components on non conductive and static free surface. a motherboard normally needs a cpu installed first before it will power up. grounding issue it sounds like. reset the cmos too. read your motherboard and system components manuals. do not run cpu without heatsink installed properly



What do you mean by grounding issue? What can I do to fix the issue, or does it need to be replaced?
By the way, I did read the entire manual for the motherboard. I made sure all the leads were plugged into the right places. I made sure everything was plugged in firmly.

As far as the CPU, I haven't received it yet.

-

Also, I saw there is a port on my motherboard called JTURBO1. Research tells me this is for the MSI MultiConnect-Panel. However, I am having trouble finding one to buy. I checked Google, Newegg, eBay, to no avail. Update: I just scoured the entire internet including all the retailers from the MSI website, but I could not find one to buy.

--

I was thinking about this CPU cooler (I'm getting 3770K): COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatp...
What do you think? Worth it?
I also saw this, but I can't tell the difference: COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Contin...


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 17, 2012)

ok what i was saying is if the motherboard and other parts are in the case, if say the back of the motherboard is touching the case or even a PCI bracket from a video card is touching the motherboard and case at same time, it can cause the machine to fail to boot/powerup, i forgot to mention even the IO shield can cause that too.



vawrvawerawe said:


> What do you mean by grounding issue? What can I do to fix the issue, or does it need to be replaced?
> By the way, I did read the entire manual for the motherboard. I made sure all the leads were plugged into the right places. I made sure everything was plugged in firmly.
> 
> As far as the CPU, I haven't received it yet.
> ...


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 17, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> ok what i was saying is if the motherboard and other parts are in the case, if say the back of the motherboard is touching the case or even a PCI bracket from a video card is touching the motherboard and case at same time, it can cause the machine to fail to boot/powerup, i forgot to mention even the IO shield can cause that too.



UPDATE: The *Paperclip Test worked*. So perhaps the issue is with the motherboard.

Maybe not having the CPU is causing the issue? I suppose I can wait until the CPU arrives and see if it works then.

p.s. I don't have a video card installed yet.
p.s.s. I double-checked and the motherboard is definitely not touching the case anywhere.


----------



## Frick (Nov 17, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> PSU does not turn on. It is connected to the motherboard and I tried another outlet, but I know for sure both outlets work. Processor and RAM are not installed, but PSU should at least still turn on, and fans and lights should turn on. But absolutely nothing happens. Returning for RMA replacement.



No it should not turn on. You have to have RAM and CPU. It's not an issue, it's just how it works. Your CPU has GPU in it so you don't need one of those.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 17, 2012)

for me its been primarily the CPU not being installed that prevents a powerup otherwise during POST you wont get a memory count or it will state install memory


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 17, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> for me its been primarily the CPU not being installed that prevents a powerup otherwise during POST you wont get a memory count or it will state install memory



ok. Please note that not even the fans turn on. But with the paperclip test the fan I connected did turn on.

So I suppose I'll wait until the CPU arrives. Then if it still doesn't turn on then it must be a faulty motherboard. Hopefully not!



Frick said:


> No it should not turn on. You have to have RAM and CPU. It's not an issue, it's just how it works. Your CPU has GPU in it so you don't need one of those.



Thanks for the tip. I'll wait for the CPU. The RAM arrives today.


----------



## Frick (Nov 17, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> ok. Please note that not even the fans turn on. But with the paperclip test the fan I connected did turn on.



No worries that's normal. It depends a bit on the motherboard (iirc), but many motherboards just do nothing when they're lacking a CPU.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 17, 2012)

[merged]


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 17, 2012)

[merged]


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 17, 2012)

Irony said:


> The page for it on newegg says it comes with an adapter to fit 2 2.5s in a 3.5 slot



Wish you'd have posted this before I bought one; now I have two lol

_[merged]_

UPDATE: PICTURES COMING SOON!
I've got everything assembled now, just waiting for graphics cards and CPU!


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

*How good will 3770K + 2x 7950 crossfire be for folding, and power consumption?*

About to finish up my build here soon whenever the cpu and graphics cards arrive. Wondering about power consumption and if it will be good for folding.


----------



## Sir B. Fannybottom (Nov 18, 2012)

I seem to remember CaDaveCa saying that his crossfire 7970s and his 3770k were pulling around 300watts from the wall on stock, but once overclocked shot up to around 700 watts. These parts will be awesome at anything you throw at them, the hyperthreading will help with crunching too .


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 18, 2012)

TacoTown said:


> I seem to remember CaDaveCa saying that his crossfire 7970s and his 3770k were pulling around 300watts from the wall on stock, but once overclocked shot up to around 700 watts. These parts will be awesome at anything you throw at them, the hyperthreading will help with crunching too .



400W, actually. 398W, to be precise.


With cards @ 1250 MHz, yeah, 697W. CPU pulls 90W @ 4.6 GHz, 50W for board, say another 25W for fans and drives, the rest is VGA.


----------



## Sir B. Fannybottom (Nov 18, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> 400W, actually. 398W, to be precise.
> 
> 
> With cards @ 1250 MHz, yeah, 697W. CPU pulls 90W @ 4.6 GHz, 50W for board, say another 25W for fans and drives, the rest is VGA.



You're like a super hero, you instantly pop up in the thread when you've been mentioned.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

lol thanks. Is that a constant 398W? I would like to not increase my power bill.


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 18, 2012)

TacoTown said:


> You're like a super hero, you instantly pop up in the thread when you've been mentioned.



my TPU-sense was tingling. 



vawrvawerawe said:


> lol thanks. Is that a constant 398W? I would like to not increase my power bill.





No, that was peak. Measured from the wall, too, BTW add 25W for monitor(well, MY monitor).

I was pretty amazed, honestly, that it was s olow.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> No, that was peak.



Ok thanks. Wonder how much more power that takes than GT780DX laptop with 2670QM and GTX 570M graphics


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Ok thanks. Wonder how much more power that takes than GT780DX laptop with 2670QM and GTX 570M graphics



That's probably binned chips to be under 90W or so, I'd imagine.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> I was thinking about this CPU cooler (I'm getting 3770K): COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus RR-B10-212P-G1 "Heatp...
> What do you think? Worth it?
> I also saw this, but I can't tell the difference: COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Contin...



bump questions about CPU cooler


----------



## drdeathx (Nov 18, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> 400W, actually. 398W, to be precise.
> 
> 
> With cards @ 1250 MHz, yeah, 697W. CPU pulls 90W @ 4.6 GHz, 50W for board, say another 25W for fans and drives, the rest is VGA.





I ran prime 95 and Furmark with 2 cards and the system did not pull 400 watts Dave. Enlighten me on this if you can. I ran power consumption a few months ago and could run again if needed.


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> bump questions about CPU cooler



you get what you pay for.


cooling is more critical with IVB vs SNB, since TIM between IHS and silicon is different. Hyper212+, on SNB, no problem, avg 125-140W OC to 4.5 GHz. With 3770k, no way, even though power draw is less.



drdeathx said:


> I ran prime 95 and Furmark with 2 cards and the system did not pull 400 watts Dave. Enlighten me on this if you can. I ran power consumption a few months ago and could run again if needed.



Running furmark and prime95 is stupid. no actual game draws power like that, nor does folding. Furmark is far too unrealisitic.


You test to maximize power draw, I test real-world, by using the PC through the week. Power meter sits directly above my monitor, so I can look at a glance, and also records maximums. Pretty basic, actually.


----------



## erocker (Nov 18, 2012)

Have you bothered to look at reviews for these products?


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 18, 2012)

erocker said:


> Have you bothered to look at reviews for these products?



Since most reviews tend to not always agree on stuff...I'd ask even if I did read every one, just for realistic user response. Cherry picking samples, and all that, although, I gotta say, I don't think I've ever got a really good review sample. Not REALLY good.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

erocker said:


> Have you looked at reviews for these products?



yes, i read several pages of reviews for each of the products.



cadaveca said:


> you get what you pay for.
> *cooling is more critical with IVB vs SNB*, since TIM between IHS and silicon is different. Hyper212+, on SNB, no problem, avg 125-140W OC to 4.5 GHz. With 3770k, no way, even though power draw is less.
> Running furmark and prime95 is stupid. no actual game draws power like that, nor does folding. Furmark is far too unrealisitic.
> You test to maximize power draw, I test real-world, by using the PC through the week. Power meter sits directly above my monitor, so I can look at a glance, and also records maximums. Pretty basic, actually.



Is it necessary to get another cooler or will the stock work fine if not overclocked?


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> yes, i read several pages of reviews for each of the products.
> 
> 
> 
> Is it necessary to get another cooler or will the stock work fine if not overclocked?



stock is fine, or else, they'd not include a cooler at all. Would be a lawsuit(nefarious device).


However, at the same time, there's this thing, I think it goes: for every 10 C dropped, IC life can double? I dunno is that is true, or still applies...but it does kinda highlight how critical cooling can be, even if running stock.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> stock is fine, or else, they'd not include a cooler at all. Would be a lawsuit(nefarious device).
> 
> 
> However, at the same time, there's this thing, I think it goes: for every 10 C dropped, IC life can double? I dunno is that is true, or still applies...but it does kinda highlight how critical cooling can be, even if running stock.



Good to know. Would lower temperature also affect power efficiency (noticeably)?


----------



## Sir B. Fannybottom (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Good to know. Would lower temperature also affect power efficiency (noticeably)?



Maybe a few watts from the fan not needing to run as fast. Pennies a month


----------



## drdeathx (Nov 18, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> you get what you pay for.
> 
> 
> cooling is more critical with IVB vs SNB, since TIM between IHS and silicon is different. Hyper212+, on SNB, no problem, avg 125-140W OC to 4.5 GHz. With 3770k, no way, even though power draw is less.
> ...



What did you run to full load the system?


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 18, 2012)

drdeathx said:


> What did you run to full load the system?



P95 Blend and BF3.


----------



## Irony (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Is it necessary to get another cooler or will the stock work fine if not overclocked?



Its barely sufficient. I wouldn't want to use the stock cooler to even run prime95 for very long at stock speeds. Hyper 212 is a decent cooler for the money. But ultimately, like someone already said, you pretty much get what you pay for with coolers. Pricier ones like silver arrow, nh-d14 and such are going to cool better


----------



## drdeathx (Nov 18, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> P95 Blend and BF3.





I just ran on 2 cards and it was up to 775 watts. Good stuff.

3770K @ 4.7GHz and 2 x radeon 7970's at 1200/1600. I did pump the voltage on the cards up to 1.2volts just to see the result.


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 18, 2012)

drdeathx said:


> I just ran on 2 cards and it was up to 775 watts. Good stuff.
> 
> 3770K @ 4.7GHz and 2 x radeon 7970's at 1200/1600. I did pump the voltage on the cards up to 1.2volts just to see the result.



Yeah, you're pushing an extra 100 MHz over what I do, so seems pretty accurate for silicon differences between chips and VGAs, between yours and mine.

So now, If going to OC that rig 24/7, I'd buy a PSU rated for 20% over that 775W you got...so say 1000W. I've been recommending 850W PSUs for dual GPU systems with OC for years now...and many have said that's too much.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

Can anyone tell me specifically if and where my build will bottleneck?


----------



## cdawall (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Can anyone tell me specifically if and where my build will bottleneck?



The user.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

cdawall said:


> The user.



lol I mean hardware of course


----------



## repman244 (Nov 18, 2012)

cdawall said:


> The user.





vawrvawerawe said:


> Can anyone tell me specifically if and where my build will bottleneck?



It's not a question of if, there is always a bottleneck.

For your usage, IMO it's either the CPU or the GPU.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

repman244 said:


> It's not a question of if, there is always a bottleneck.
> 
> For your usage, IMO it's either the CPU or the GPU.



ok, but my CPU is 3770K and GPU is 7950 Crossfire (x2). So please clarify.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> ok, but my CPU is 3770K and GPU is 7950 Crossfire (x2). So please clarify.



Depends what you are doing. Normal system will have no issues.


----------



## repman244 (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> ok, but my CPU is 3770K and GPU is 7950 Crossfire (x2). So please clarify.



Example:
If a game loads your CPU to 100% and GPU stays at 50% you aren't utilizing your GPU to it's full potential. 
So there is always some sort of a bottleneck, but you should be looking at the framerates you want to achieve.
Ideal situation would be using 100%CPU for feeding the GPU to it's 100% but you won't have that.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

repman244 said:


> Example:
> If a game loads your CPU to 100% and GPU stays at 50% you aren't utilizing your GPU to it's full potential.
> So there is always some sort of a bottleneck, but you should be looking at the framerates you want to achieve.
> Ideal situation would be using 100%CPU for feeding the GPU to it's 100% but you won't have that.



Yes, exactly, so where will my system, parts listed in this thread, most probably bottleneck?


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Yes, exactly, so where will my system, parts listed in this thread, most probably bottleneck?



HDD/SSD.

CPU speed still plays a role as well, with older stuff, however, most newer stuff is GPU-bottlenecked, depending on resolution. stuff = apps.

SO like posted above, it depends on what you're doing, exactly.


2x7970, obviously, is faster. you coudl say GPU is bottleneck, there. So...

there's aren't much faster CPUs, but for multi-threaded work, obviously more cores is better.


That why one of the first questions asked for system builds is what the PC will be used for.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> 2x7970, obviously, is faster



... and $500 more expensive


----------



## repman244 (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Yes, exactly, so where will my system, parts listed in this thread, most probably bottleneck?



Both me and cdawall answered, it depends what you do.

Use my example and just flip it around. 

You will always have a bottleneck, the only way not to have one is to have a system that would do anything in t = 0 which is impossible.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 20, 2012)

thanks. pictures coming soon.


----------



## Irony (Nov 20, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> ... and $500 more expensive



Not necessarily. 

XFX Double D FX-797A-TDFC Radeon HD 7970 3GB 384-b...

$359, with a $30 mir gets it down to $329. Most 7950s are that price.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 21, 2012)

Just got the G110. It has a nice feel, but I am disappointed because I thought you could change the colors. You can only choose between Red, Purple, and Blue, and shades in between. This factor alone, that I cannot have the color white, is the deciding factor into why I will not keep this keyboard.







Moreover, the backlight, although brighter on the keys than the Challenger Ultimate, only is brighter if you look *directly overhead*. Since most people do not hold their head directly over the keyboard and stare straight down, then the keys look rather dim. Another disappointment. Even worse is that due to the design, some of the keys only light up partially.






The culprit for this, is due to the fact that the print for the keys is not having light shined onto it. As you see below, the key has print outside of the area which shines light:






Also the problem is that the actual light source is deep into the keyboard, as shown below. This is also the reason the lights appear dim. The lights do appear brighter when fully depressed. However, that defeats the purpose of having a backlit keyboard.






Also, the wrist rest is actually a separate piece. It kind of feels cheap; although when attached to the keyboard and set on the table, it has a good and comfortable, solid feel.

Wrist rest pictures:











------------------------------

PICTURES:

Logitech G110:






Thermaltake Challenger Ultimate:






-

SATA power issue: Distance between SATA power plugs for HDD, along with the rgidity of the cables, makes impossible to be able to plug in more than 2 drives into the full 6 slots because you have to space them so far apart.

Do I need these or is there another solution?

Allow me to illustrate the issue with pictures:











As you see in the pictures above, I could plug them all in, but the back of the case could not possibly close. There is ZERO flexibility of the cables when plugged in like this.


What about removing the sleeve? Although I'm not sure that's possible without cutting it off; and that could be dangerous because I could accidentally cut one of the wires. And it would also probably void my warranty on the PSU. Moreover, cutting off the sleeve might not even work.

No one answered (probably because it's Thanksgiving), so I just bought 5 of those sata power extension cables


----------



## Irony (Nov 22, 2012)

That looks like the only solution for multiple drives in that case


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

Irony said:


> That looks like the only solution for multiple drives in that case



Thanks. Hopefully it works.

--

Worth buying this SYBA SY-PEX40039 PCI-Express 2.0 SATA III (6.0Gb/s...
for whenever I want to add two more hard drives?

My motherboard only has six sata ports. Also, only two of those are sata3. This would give me two more sata3 ports.
Currently, I have 5 hard drives and one DVD drive. There is all 6 of my ports. So, without having more SATA ports, I am maxed out to 10TB. And yes, I do want and could use more TB. If I got two of these I could add up to 8 more TB; and if I used 3TB drives I could add up to 12 more TB.

Not to mention if I wanted to add a SSD.


----------



## repman244 (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Worth buying this SYBA SY-PEX40039 PCI-Express 2.0 SATA III (6.0Gb/s...
> for whenever I want to add two more hard drives?
> My motherboard only has six sata ports. Also, only two of those are sata3. This would give me two more sata3 ports.



I wouldn't if I were you, only when you get to the point of actually needing more ports. Don't bother so much with SATA 3 if you will use HDD's, they don't even come close to SATA 2 limits.
And AFAIK the 2 SATA 3 ports on the MB are native and you get much better performance from them than these cheap cards.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

repman244 said:


> I wouldn't if I were you, only when you get to the point of actually needing more ports. Don't bother so much with SATA 3 if you will use HDD's, they don't even come close to SATA 2 limits.
> And AFAIK the 2 SATA 3 ports on the MB are native and you get much better performance from them than these cheap cards.



Ok then what do you suggest? I want to add a SSD and more SATA3 hard drives.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Ok then what do you suggest? I want to add a SSD and more SATA3 hard drives.



Your HARDDRIVE will NEVER max out SATA*2*


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Your HARDDRIVE will NEVER max out SATA2



Fine, but What Do You *Suggest*? For adding More Hard Drives? If not that PCI-e card, then what do you suggest? A different PCI-e card? Another idea? 

If you're correct, then you must have a better idea? Please tell me the better idea you have.

Anyways, as far as SATA3 is concerned, *Yes, SATA3 Matters.* Although, depending on the hard drive, how much it matters may vary.



> Due to 8b/10b encoding, the maximum data transfer rates of SATA II and SATA III are 300 MB/s and 600 MB/s, respectively.
> 
> When choosing a proper interface for a drive, the concepts fully utilizes and can benefit from are quite different.
> 
> ...



--

Perhaps another person can confirm that I should not get this? (http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816124045)
Because it looks like it will serve my purposes quite nicely.


----------



## repman244 (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Anyways, as far as SATA3 is concerned, Yes, SATA3 Matters. Although, depending on the hard drive, how much it matters may vary.



For HDD it does not matter, SATA 2 is enough. Even 15k RPM enterprise drives are around 200-220MB maximum sequential read/write.
The only thing that could be affected is the drives cache which isn't that important for a storage drive.

About the card, maybe something like HighPoint, LSI, Areca, Adaptec....


----------



## cdawall (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Fine, but What Do You *Suggest*? For adding More Hard Drives? If not that PCI-e card, then what do you suggest? A different PCI-e card? Another idea?
> 
> If you're correct, then you must have a better idea? Please tell me the better idea you have.
> 
> ...



Look at your own link very closely






NOTICE those are not HDD those are SSD's AGAIN a HARD DRIVE AKA the thing with the spinny disk inside will *NOT* max out SATA II use the SATA II ports on your board and move on. If you want to get very specific short of dropping *$200+* on a good 16x based raid card you will never get close to the latency provided by the onboard Sata II not to mention the speed in itself.

Using a higher end card on a 1x/4x slot. Are you going to be able to give up a 16x slot? NOPE you have yours populated...






Notice how it performs worse the SATA II onboard.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Notice how it performs



Irrelevant. I am asking about what to get so I can add more hard drives. Throughput doesn't matter at all to me. Storage space does.

So can you please give a suggestion as to what to buy, if not that PCI-e card I gave the link for?

p.s., look at that picture more closely:






Clearly in the picture, the PCI-e card does not differ too much from the onboard speed. But again, that doesn't matter to me because I'm just looking to add more hard drives.

Moreover, for the sake of discussion, there is a huge difference between SATA2 and SATA3 speeds.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Irrelevant. I am asking about what to get so I can add more hard drives. Throughput doesn't matter at all to me. Storage space does.
> 
> So can you please give a suggestion as to what to buy, if not that PCI-e card I gave the link for?




So you are running more than 6 drives total? If you are buy a motherboard that supports more drives.

This is what happens when you cheap out on motherboards

ASRock Z77 Professional LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SA...


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

cdawall said:


> So you are running more than 6 drives total? If you are buy a motherboard that supports more drives.
> 
> This is what happens when you cheap out on motherboards
> 
> ASRock Z77 Professional LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SA...



1. I got an excellent motherboard which has excellent reviews.
2. No, I do not want to buy another motherboard. I am happy with the one I bought.
3. Yes, I will be using more than 5 drives total. (the DVD drive is using up sata port #6).
4. I Don't Care About The Speed. As long as it's over 50mb/s.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> p.s., look at that picture more closely:
> 
> http://s9.postimage.org/vr9tfw0rz/22103.jpg
> 
> ...



Which 16x slot are you using the one with the 7950 in it or the one with the other 7950 in it. If you notice using the open 4x/1x slot you have available it is a good bit *slower* than the onboard SATA II.



vawrvawerawe said:


> 1. I did not get that cheapo motherboard. I got an excellent motherboard which has excellent reviews.
> 2. No, I do not want to buy another motherboard. I am happy with the one I bought.
> 3. Yes, I will be using more than 5 drives total. (the DVD drive is using up sata port #6).



Use the USB3.0


----------



## repman244 (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> So can you please give a suggestion as to what to buy, if not that PCI-e card I gave the link for?



I'll just quote myself:



> About the card, maybe something like HighPoint, LSI, Areca, Adaptec....


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Use the USB3.0



No. I want internal drives. Otherwise I pay much more for a ton of crappy externals. And it would completely defeat one of the prime purposes of this build (be able to add a bunch of internal drives to save thousands of dollars). And USB 3.0 is Significantly Slower Than Sata (in real life use). From my experience, SATA transfers about 5 times faster than USB 3.0.


----------



## Frick (Nov 22, 2012)

If only storage space matters buy a random controller card. Just get the cheapest.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> No. I want internal drives. Otherwise I pay much more for a ton of crappy externals. And it would completely defeat one of the prime purposes of this build. And USB 3.0 is Significantly Slower Than Sata.



Go look USB3.0 speeds up again because you are wrong. They are normally not more expensive by much if any. If you want 6 billion internal HDD buy another SATA card you have already proven you don't listen anyway. Buy the cheapest SATA III one you can and put it in your PCI-e 1x slot that only supports 250MB/s


----------



## Frick (Nov 22, 2012)

Why are you even talking speeds when he said that didnt matter? Just grab a cheapo from ebay or something.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 22, 2012)

Frick said:


> Why are you even talking speeds when he said that didnt matter? Just grab a cheapo from ebay or something.



I was trying to figure the same thing out since he brought it up at first as being important. Now its not because he was proved wrong. Same thing with this guy every time anyone tries to help him.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

Frick said:


> If only storage space matters buy a random controller card. Just get the cheapest.



Thanks! Yea, most of the drives aren't being used regularly. Just for storage and backup. So the drives on the slower ports from the PCI-e sata ports, I would use backups and storage.



Frick said:


> Why are you even talking speeds when he said that didnt matter? Just grab a cheapo from ebay or something.



I wasn't. I was trying to get other people to stop talking about it and just give a suggestion.
Thanks. I'll take your advice!



cdawall said:


> I was trying to figure the same thing out since he brought it up at first as being important. Now its not because he was proved wrong.



No, I was proved correct. Not wrong. Dunno why people don't listen sometimes.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Go look USB3.0 speeds up again because you are wrong.



No, you're wrong. I said *in real time use in my experience.* I know what the speeds are supposed to be. *I have never come even remotely close to 600mb/s on usb 3.0. The most I ever got was 80mb/s on USB 3.0*. Part of that is being a seagate drive (junk). The other part is not spending $500 on a 2TB drive. Nonetheless, *for the exact same drive*, I got internal transfer speeds at significantly higher speeds.


----------



## repman244 (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> No, you're wrong. I said in real time use in my experience. I know what the speeds are supposed to be. I have never come even remotely close to 600mb/s on usb 3.0. The most I ever got was 80mb/s on USB 3.0



After you added that part yes  USB 3.0 has no problems of speeds around 3Gbps...


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

repman244 said:


> After you added that part yes  USB 3.0 has no problems of speeds around 3Gbps...



Please post a screenshot where your computer is getting 384MB/s (3Gbps) real-life transfer speeds on USB 3.0 to a normal hard drive. I want to see this!!!

And if you really, can, please tell me how I can do it too, because I never ever came anywhere even remotely close to that on my USB 3.0 external hard drive!!!


----------



## erocker (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Please post a screenshot where your computer is getting 384MB/s (3Gbps) real-life transfer speeds on USB 3.0 to a normal hard drive



No SATA II/III hard disk can reach those speeds on its own USB 3.0 or not.


----------



## repman244 (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Please post a screenshot where your computer is getting 384MB/s (3Gbps) real-life transfer speeds on USB 3.0 to a normal hard drive. I want to see this!!!
> 
> And if you really, can, please tell me how I can do it too, because I never ever came anywhere even remotely close to that on my USB 3.0 external hard drive!!!



We were talking of USB 3.0 in general (being slower than SATA but it's more than enough for a hard drive)...HDD is limited by it's own speed of read.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> No, I was proved correct. Not wrong. Dunno why people don't listen sometimes.



Find me a hard drive that maxes out SATA II, when you are finished with that find me an add-on 1x/4x card that is faster than an onboard SATA II setup. Until then no you are still incorrect.



vawrvawerawe said:


> No, you're wrong. I said *in real time use in my experience.* I know what the speeds are supposed to be. *I have never come even remotely close to 600mb/s on usb 3.0. The most I ever got was 80mb/s on USB 3.0*. Part of that is being a seagate drive (junk). The other part is not spending $500 on a 2TB drive. Nonetheless, *for the exact same drive*, I got internal transfer speeds at significantly higher speeds.





vawrvawerawe said:


> Please post a screenshot where your computer is getting 384MB/s (3Gbps) real-life transfer speeds on USB 3.0 to a normal hard drive. I want to see this!!!
> 
> And if you really, can, please tell me how I can do it too, because I never ever came anywhere even remotely close to that on my USB 3.0 external hard drive!!!



Done







I bet if you ripped the *HDD* from your USB3.0 enclosure and used it on the internal ports there would be a negligible performance difference.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

cdawall said:


> http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5997/Screen Shot 2012-06-11 at 5.48.12 PM.png



Sorry, but tell me again, you have this 5400RPM or 7200RPM hard drive connected to USB 3.0 in an external enclosure, and you are seeing a steady data transfer rate of 450MB/s transferring random files like you would do in real life? I don't believe it. This looks like an internal high-end SSD specs -- and PEAK specs, at that. Not steady transfer rate. And not real-life transfer rate, because this is a benchmark test which would likely *never happen in real life*. And on a Mac, no less. I would never buy a mac!!! lol

UPDATE: HAHA tineye showed me, this is merely a SSD. It is 2x high-end solid state drives on RAID0 maxed out on a benchmark test. Here is one place this benchmark was taken and you extracted this image from: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/turnkey/iMac_2010_27/benchmarks/

Here is the tineye search which showed me all the places this image you found: http://www.tineye.com/search/1b0592559e4d0c5a268482136c2486ba65261b5f/

Now that your picture is proved bogus, please send a real screenshot.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Sorry, but tell me again, you have this 5400RPM or 7200RPM hard drive connected to USB 3.0 and you are seeing a steady data transfer rate of 450MB/s? I don't believe it. This looks like an internal high-end SSD specs -- and PEAK specs, at that. Not steady transfer rate. And on a Mac, no less. I won't never buy a mac!!!



If you have a regular 5400RPM/7200RPM drive installed into a SATA port do you see a steady transfer rate of 450MB/s?



vawrvawerawe said:


> UPDATE: HAHA tineye showed me, this is merely a SSD. It is 2x high-end solid state drives on RAID0 maxed out on a benchmark test. Here is one place this benchmark was taken and you extracted this image from: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/turnkey/iMac_2010_27/benchmarks/
> 
> Here is the tineye search which showed me all the places this image you found: http://www.tineye.com/search/1b0592559e4d0c5a268482136c2486ba65261b5f/
> 
> Now that your picture is proved bogus, please send a real screenshot.








Your really good at stuffing that foot deep down into your mouth aren't you.


----------



## repman244 (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Sorry, but tell me again, you have this 5400RPM or 7200RPM hard drive connected to USB 3.0 in an external enclosure, and you are seeing a steady data transfer rate of 450MB/s transferring random files like you would do in real life? I don't believe it. This looks like an internal high-end SSD specs -- and PEAK specs, at that. Not steady transfer rate. And not real-life transfer rate, because this is a benchmark test which would likely *never happen in real life*. And on a Mac, no less. I would never buy a mac!!! lol



So what if it even is an SSD, the point is about USB 3 speeds...Drive benchmarks are quite accurate compared to real life performance of drives.
If you test standard sequential read/write that is a real-life scenario for a storage drive.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

repman244 said:


> So what if it even is an SSD, the point is about USB 3 speeds...Drive benchmarks are quite accurate compared to real life performance of drives.
> If you test standard sequential read/write that is a real-life scenario for a storage drive.



no, this is not even remotely close to usb 3.0 speeds. this is internal sata3 2x $1000 SSD at RAID0.

I asked for a regular hard drive real-life screenshot.

Let me show you a screenshot of usb 3.0 real-life transfer speeds.






p.s. I just watched that movie the other week. I fogot how hilarious and excellent actor Chevy Chase was!! You should watch the movie!!


----------



## repman244 (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> no, this is not even remotely close to usb 3.0 speeds. this is internal sata3 2x $1000 SSD at RAID0.
> 
> I asked for a regular hard drive real-life screenshot.
> 
> ...



Sorry to ask but can you read? Me cdawall, and even erocker already told you that if you have a hard drive you won't see maximum speeds of USB 3.

The whole discussion was because of this:


> And USB 3.0 is Significantly Slower Than Sata.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

repman244 said:


> Sorry to ask but can you read? Me cdawall, and even erocker already told you that if you have a hard drive you won't see maximum speeds of USB 3.
> 
> The whole discussion was because of this:




ok let me show you internal sata transfer speed for the same file.

update: the movie transferred in a half-second, there wasn't even a popup. so i grabbed 4 movie files and transferred. 311MB/s






now tell me again, usb 3.0 has the same real-life transfer speeds??


----------



## repman244 (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> ok let me show you internal sata transfer speed for the same file.



It needs to be the same drive and same file....


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

repman244 said:


> It needs to be the same drive and same file....



same drive and same file.
I two the same drives. One I have inside my computer, and the other I have as usb 3.0.


----------



## cdawall (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> no, this is not even remotely close to usb 3.0 speeds. this is internal sata3 2x $1000 SSD at RAID0.



Want to get that foot out of your mouth or keep calling me a liar?



cdawall said:


> Your really good at stuffing that foot deep down into your mouth aren't you.



Look really really close see how the image came from anandtech not your random mac site that hasn't got a single benchmark that matches what I posted.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Want to get that foot out of your mouth



Nope.

Look really close:

USB 3.0 7200rpm scorpio blue hdd:
(63MB/s)





(63MB/s)

Internal SATA 7200rpm scorpio blue hdd (same):
(probably 600MB/s because the file was 600MB and it took less than a second to transfer the file. so to even get a screenshot I had to grab several movie files)


----------



## repman244 (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> update: the movie transferred in a half-second, there wasn't even a popup. so i grabbed 4 movie files and transferred. 311MB/s



It was cached hence the no pop-up, try it with a 20GB file.

And how do you know the drive in the USB enclosure is identical? You already said it's a bit slow no?


----------



## cdawall (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Nope.
> 
> Look really close:
> 
> ...



They aren't even the same file? WTF are you just lost?


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

repman244 said:


> It was cached hence the no pop-up, try it with a 20GB file.
> 
> And how do you know the drive in the USB enclosure is identical? You already said it's a bit slow no?



no, the crappy seagate is slow as crap. it gets like 40MB/s, average around 25MB/s and is USB 3.0. So I didn't even bother with that one; instead used the faster drive for this screenshot test. Plus I wanted to use same drive for direct performance comparison.

YMMV



cdawall said:


> They aren't even the same file? WTF are you just lost?



Wow can't you read?



> Internal SATA 7200rpm scorpio blue hdd (same):
> (probably 600MB/s because the *SAME FILE *was 600MB and it took less than a second to transfer the file. so to even get a screenshot I had to grab several movie files


(INCLUDING THE SAME FILE WHICH IS SHOWN IN THE SCREENSHOT)


----------



## repman244 (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Nope.
> 
> Look really close:
> 
> ...



The thing you are forgetting here is that the files that are once transfered are cached for some time. And if you start a new transfer it just pulls it from the cache but Windows doesn't show the transfer.
Like I said try it with a much larger file and you won't see such speeds.
Standard HDD's have maximum read/write of around 150MB/s.

*Or if you want to see actual data, download HDTune and run it for both drives.*


----------



## cdawall (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Wow can't you read?
> 
> (INCLUDING THE SAME FILE WHICH IS SHOWN IN THE SCREENSHOT)



Were did you buy this mystically magical hard drive that can transfer faster than SSD's in raid 0?


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Were did you buy this mystically magical hard drive that can transfer faster than SSD's in raid 0?



yea, you're right, it can't be 600mb/s (probably has to do with windows' caching that repman was talking about), but doesn't matter - the popup closed before it opened - so less than a second, for the internal drive. But 10 seconds for the external usb 3.0 drive.



repman244 said:


> The thing you are forgetting here is that the files that are once transfered are cached for some time. And if you start a new transfer it just pulls it from the cache but Windows doesn't show the transfer.
> Like I said try it with a much larger file and you won't see such speeds.
> Standard HDD's have maximum read/write of around 150MB/s.
> 
> *Or if you want to see actual data, download HDTune and run it for both drives.*



You might have saw the second I grabbed 4GB of files (almost 8x larger) but still about 5x faster speed even when including the caching.

Anyway, all I'm saying is, in my experience, transferring lots of files is *much faster * - *in my experience* - when using internal. And if the caching contributes to the apparent speed, all the better. Another good reason to use internal drive instead of external.

*But there is another major reason to not use external, which is the primary reason I want internal drives.* Two primary reasons, actually - and neither are related to transfer speeds.

1. *PRICE *of external vs internal varies considerably. Because for external you are also paying for the enclosure. Multiply that by however many drives I buy.
2. *WIRES & SPACE*. I want internal so it is just there in my computer, no wires, nothing sitting outside, nothing to knock over and destroy the drive, nothing to take up my floor/desk space, nothing to clutter my office.​
The noticeable speed increase my my own personal real-time use, of sata over usb 3.0, is just a bonus reason to use internal rather than external.

*p.s. you can argue about benchmark tests and supposed speeds until kingdom come; but that doesn't change what I see happening before my very own eyes, which is that internal sata drives transfer faster than external drives.*


----------



## repman244 (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> You might have saw the second I grabbed 4GB of files (almost 8x larger) but still about 5x faster speed even when including the caching.
> 
> Anyway, all I'm saying is, in my experience, transferring lots of files is much faster when using internal. ANd if the caching contributes to the apparent speed, all the better. Another good reason to use internal drive instead of external.



Starting speed is still faster, until it hits the non-cached part. You can see that if you start a fresh new copy of let's say a 5GB file and 1GB usually ends up in RAM first. Hence why in Windows you see speeds of 300-400MB/s but after while it drops down to the drives actual write speed.

The HDD itself isn't writing at that speed tho, so it may seem it writes faster due to the cache but in fact it's not (it's physically impossible to write 300MB/s with todays HDD's).


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

repman244 said:


> Starting speed is still faster, until it hits the non-cached part. You can see that if you start a fresh new copy of let's say a 5GB file and 1GB usually ends up in RAM first. Hence why in Windows you see speeds of 300-400MB/s but after while it drops down to the drives actual write speed.



Yes. One big benefit of having a HUGE amount of RAM


----------



## repman244 (Nov 22, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Yes. One big benefit of having a HUGE amount of RAM



I don't know if you benefit from it in this case, I've never seen it go above 1GB even when I changed from 4GB to 8GB of RAM. It seems it's the OS sets the limit.
Another option that you could try is disable write-cache in Windows, so you see the actual write speed of the HDD.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

repman244 said:


> I don't know if you benefit from it in this case, I've never seen it go above 1GB even when I changed from 4GB to 8GB of RAM. It seems it's the OS sets the limit.
> Another option that you could try is disable write-cache in Windows, so you see the actual write speed of the HDD.



Yes, you're probably right. You know better than me here. Although I don't need to disable write-cache, because part of the benefit, even if it's in cache, I don't have to worry about it. One the progress box is complete, I no longer have to worry about it. But for external hard drive, I can't disconnect the drive until the progress box is complete.

For me, there is an overwhelming number of reasons to why internal drive is better than external drive, for me. Maybe for others it is different, but I know for me, I prefer internal.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 23, 2012)

*Case Fans 120mm Silent*

Want to get one or two more case fans, for the side (there is a place for them). 120mm.

I want very quiet. I saw one site has some only 10db(a) (on low setting) [at highest setting is still only 19db] [LINK]. Another one on the site goes as low as 6db [highest setting is still only 18db] [LINK]. But they are in Europe 

Most of the other ones I saw are between 30 and 40db. Which is actually quite audible, especially when you have several fans. [LISTEN]

So what do you suggest? I want cheap ($5 to $15 max) and quiet (as low as 10db preferred).

--

p.s. still waiting to receive the processor and last hard drive. Then I will take pictures.


----------



## Irony (Nov 24, 2012)

The first fan you link to is a 140mm, so you cant put two of those next to each other in 120mm spaces. Just google those fans, newegg has em. And you realize that that sites' prices are listed in pounds, so those fans are like  $22 usd


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 24, 2012)

Irony said:


> The first fan you link to is a 140mm, so you cant put two of those next to each other in 120mm spaces. Just google those fans, newegg has em. And you realize that that sites' prices are listed in pounds, so those fans are like  $22 usd



no, it is 120mm/140mm (fits both), but like I said it's in the UK and I can't buy from that site.

And the point here is I want QUIET. not the ones I could just search ebay or newegg for.


----------



## Irony (Nov 24, 2012)

Yeah, it has the screw holes set up so that it will fit in a 120mm space, but its larger than a 120mm fan still by 5mm on all sides so you cant butt two of them together in a 240m space meant for 2 120s. Unless there are holes for 140mm fans in the side panel; i dont think there are


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 24, 2012)

Irony said:


> Yeah, it has the screw holes set up so that it will fit in a 120mm space, but its larger than a 120mm fan still by 5mm on all sides so you cant butt two of them together in a 240m space meant for 2 120s. Unless there are holes for 140mm fans in the side panel; i dont think there are



Good thinking. But like I said I can't buy that one, it's in the UK.

Anyway I might not get fans anyway. Worried about the noise. I dunno, just concerned about my behemoth 7950 graphics cards getting hot.

Open to suggestions.


----------



## Irony (Nov 24, 2012)

COUGAR CF-V12HP Vortex Hydro-Dynamic-Bearing (Flui...

How bout these? They have the cool golf ball surface that helps keep them quiet, 17db. And they move a ton of air, 70cfm. And they're cheap. And a good color. And pwm. And ultra long life bearings. 

If you have a spare 5.25 drive bay I would suggest you get a fan controller if you're really interested in quiet. Then you can turn your fans down if you want them quieter


----------



## cdawall (Nov 24, 2012)

Irony said:


> COUGAR CF-V12HP Vortex Hydro-Dynamic-Bearing (Flui...
> 
> How bout these? They have the cool golf ball surface that helps keep them quiet, 17db. And they move a ton of air, 70cfm. And they're cheap. And a good color. And pwm. And ultra long life bearings.
> 
> If you have a spare 5.25 drive bay I would suggest you get a fan controller if you're really interested in quiet. Then you can turn your fans down if you want them quieter



They are pwm hook them up to mobo and create a fan profile.


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 24, 2012)

Irony said:


> COUGAR CF-V12HP Vortex Hydro-Dynamic-Bearing (Flui...
> 
> How bout these? They have the cool golf ball surface that helps keep them quiet, 17db. And they move a ton of air, 70cfm. And they're cheap. And a good color. And pwm. And ultra long life bearings.
> 
> If you have a spare 5.25 drive bay I would suggest you get a fan controller if you're really interested in quiet. Then you can turn your fans down if you want them quieter



Nice suggestion. Thank you.


----------



## drdeathx (Nov 24, 2012)

This is rather one of the longer build threads I have seen in a while. LOL

Is the over and under on the fans 3  pages?


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 24, 2012)

drdeathx said:


> This is rather one of the longer build threads I have seen in a while. LOL
> 
> Is the over and under on the fans 3  pages?



I don't understand your question



Irony said:


> COUGAR CF-V12HP Vortex Hydro-Dynamic-Bearing (Flui...
> 
> How bout these? They have the cool golf ball surface that helps keep them quiet, 17db. And they move a ton of air, 70cfm. And they're cheap. And a good color. And pwm. And ultra long life bearings.
> 
> If you have a spare 5.25 drive bay I would suggest you get a fan controller if you're really interested in quiet. Then you can turn your fans down if you want them quieter



Thanks to your suggestion, I really liked that and bought two of them 

Suggestion for fan controller?



DrunkenMafia said:


> You need to squeeze an SSD in there it makes a huge speed difference to any pc and hunt around to try find a 660ti or 7950.



Done


----------



## Irony (Nov 25, 2012)

I have an nzxt sentry touch, single bay. I would prefer one with just rheostat knobs or sliders tho. But this one has automatic control too with heat probes you can place throughout your case which is nice. Theres also a number of other companies that make good controllers

Edit: i think drdeath was mocking the length of this thread and asking how long you've been discussing fans


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 25, 2012)

Irony said:


> I have an nzxt sentry touch, single bay. I would prefer one with just rheostat knobs or sliders tho. But this one has automatic control too with heat probes you can place throughout your case which is nice. Theres also a number of other companies that make good controllers
> 
> Edit: i think drdeath was talking about the length of this thread and asking how long you've been discussing fans



Nice suggestion about the nzxt sentry touch. I might get it sometime in the near future. (right now though, I bought about as much as I am willing to spend on this PC!)

@dr. death: oh, we've only been discussing fans for like 7 posts, I think.. a half page maybe?
 (update, just counted, yes, 7 posts total about fans before your post dr. death. lol )

--

UPDATE:

I came up with a solution to my issue regarding limited SATA ports - without buying PCI-e card.

Since the total number of drives I have now is six, I can plug all of them into the motherboard (using up all six ports), and then for my DVD drive I just bought a SATA to USB adapter, and will just plug the internal DVD drive into an external USB port (and hide the wires). Since DVD drives will never go beyond the 480Mbps of USB 2.0, there will be zero performance loss by using this method.

Here is the adapter I am referring to:






Although, in the future if I want to add more drives, then I will have to go the PCIe-to-SATA route.

I concluded that the maximum number of internal hard drives possible is 10 hard drives, given:
6 motherboard ports
2 PCIe to SATA cards (each with 2 SATA3 ports) = 4 more SATA data ports.

There are 8 SATA power cables, but since I have spare Molex cables from the PSU, I could easily use a SATA power to Molex adapter for the remaining two hard drives.


*Begin Hypothetical:*

Moreover, for two of the additional hard drives I would have to use a 5.25 bay to 3.5 adapter to install the remaining hard drives.

For now, however, 10TB is fine. But I have the option to add 10 to 12 more TB (two 3TB and two 2TB; or four 3TB HDD).

The maximum space my PC could hold, if I exchanged my three 2TB drives for 3TB drives, and my 1TB 2.5" drive for a 3.5" 3TB drive and mounted the SSD on the side of the middle bays, is:

9 x 3TB = 27TB.

If I really wanted to go extreme, I could get two SATA to USB 3.0 adapters and plug an extra two 3TB drives - although I'm not sure where I would mount the drives.
This would make for a maximum of 33TB.

and if I really, really wanted to go extreme, I could do as above but swap all 11 3TB drives for 4TB drives for a maximum of:
44TB.

Although that would be outrageous. Lol.
Seeing as you can get a SATA3 4TB drive for $260, then the cost of getting 11 4TB drives would be:
$2860.

Don't worry. I wouldn't do this ridiculousness ​


----------



## Irony (Nov 25, 2012)

Why do you need that much storage?


----------



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 26, 2012)

Got CPU today.

Still computer will not turn on.

PSU passes paperclip test.

Removed everything but CPU and plugged in only the 8-pin CPU power cable, 24-pin motherboard connector, speaker, one fan, and power button on PC case.

Took out the motherboard and set it on a wooden table, tried again, still nothing. Zip, zero, null, nothing.

When power to PSU is plugged in, and PSU is turned on, nothing happens. Absolutely nothing. No power, no lights anywhere, not even the fan connected directly to PSU turns on. Which means PSU is not getting the signal to turn on.

I am headed to radio shack walgreens to pick up a new CMOS battery, to see if that's the problem. If that still doesn't work, then this motherboard is DOA.


----------



## erocker (Nov 26, 2012)

Put RAM in it. Reverse the power button wires on the motherboard.

With the PSU, unless there is a light on the PSU, the fan won't spin up if there is power going to the PSU.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 27, 2012)

erocker said:


> Put RAM in it. Reverse the power button wires on the motherboard.
> 
> With the PSU, unless there is a light on the PSU, the fan won't spin up if there is power going to the PSU.



PSU is fine. Like I said, it passed the paperclip test.

Forgot to mention I also had the RAM in when testing.

What do you mean, reverse power button wires?
Edit: I figured out what you meant. I will put everything in and try it. If that doesn't work, nothing will.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 27, 2012)

*Dear erocker,

You have saved the day once again.

Awhile back, you saved me when a mod banned me by accident.

Today, when all else failed, you gave me one simple task, which by following, has saved me weeks of distress in RMA and worry.

Thank you so much, you are a wonderful person!!!*



You were right, the only problem was the power cable button. Once I fixed that by taking your advice, Plugged it in, and pushed the power button, everything turned on like a charm!   

E


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## Irony (Nov 27, 2012)

So, "thank you erocker for your (un)common sense"


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 27, 2012)

Ok. PC turns on, but then turns off after 5 seconds. then turns on again automatically for 5 seconds then off again for 5 seconds. Keeps doing this. No video is displayed on the monitor.

I unplugged both graphics cards, but still same issue.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 27, 2012)

Did you plug in the 8 pin power for the CPU and the PCIe power cables for the graphics cards?


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 27, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Did you plug in the 8 pin power for the CPU and the PCIe power cables for the graphics cards?



Yes;

I just took out the CPU and put it back in again;

Then I put the RAM in the other two slots.

Then I turned on. Boots up. 

--

Everything working perfect now. Just finished installing Windows. Took pictures, will post them soon.


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## Irony (Nov 27, 2012)

Another reason I love asrock boards; if theres a problem it gives you a code to tell specifically what it is


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 27, 2012)

Irony said:


> Another reason I love asrock boards; if theres a problem it gives you a code to tell specifically what it is



Wouldn't have mattered because there was no display. Probably the CPU was not seated properly.

Anyway I know and trust MSI hardware. Whereas asrock, sounds off-brand to me. (I'm sure it's a good board though).


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## Irony (Nov 27, 2012)

It actually gives you a code on an led panel on the board that you look up in the mobo manual. So no display required. As far as I can tell, asrock has usurped ASUS. Which is made evident by the fact that ASUS is trying to buy them back after they dumped them years ago; and then watched them steal a large portion of the gaming/high end motherboard market. It's always awesome to see the bastard son outdo its snooty progenitor...


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 27, 2012)

Irony said:


> It actually gives you a code on an led panel on the board that you look up in the mobo manual. So no display required. As far as I can tell, asrock has usurped ASUS. Which is made evident by the fact that ASUS is trying to buy them back after they dumped them years ago; and then watched them steal a large portion of the gaming/high end motherboard market. It's always awesome to see the bastard son outdo its snooty progenitor...



Lol interesting.



Irony said:


> Why do you need that much storage?


My movies and TV shows only take up about 1TB. Applications and alternate OS (linux, unix, etc.) [Not the windows install or application data] take up about 1TB. Windows install and applications only take up about 200GB. Ebooks and Audiobooks take up about 1TB. Tutorials and tutorial videos (for just about everything there is to learn that I care about) take up about 1TB. I have about 50 games, most of which I never played yet, takes up between 500GB and 1TB, I think. Rosetta Stone for all languages takes up about 100GB. Miscellaneous things take up between 100GB and 500GB. Oh yeah, music takes up about 50GB, but now with massive more space it will probably take about 1TB. Web design stuff and server backups for up to 100 sites, and graphic design stuff, take up the rest - a very large amount which constantly increases. Videos, applications, ebooks, music, also increase regularly.

But you must understand - I would like at least one whole backup of everything. This means if I have 5TB of data, I need 10TB of space. If I have 10TB of data, I need 20TB of space. And, the more space I have, trust me, the more I will use.

Currently, my system now is 10TB. Now with the extra 7TB, I will use 4TB as backup space, meaning I will have used 8TB of space total - 4TB of data backed up completely one time. This leaves me with only 1TB extra even though I more than doubled my space, because now I will have backups.

Currently used space: almost 4TB
Backed up all one time: + 4TB
= 8TB needed for 4TB space.

Remaining: 2TB
Backed up once = remaining: 1TB + 1 backup​
So 10TB isn't really a huge gain and it will be used up very quickly. So in 2 to 6 months (depending on how conservative I am) I will need more space again.
20TB would be very nice for me. Would give me 5 TB of space extra.


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## RCoon (Nov 28, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Lol interesting.
> 
> 
> My movies and TV shows only take up about 1TB. Applications and alternate OS (linux, unix, etc.) [Not the windows install or application data] take up about 1TB. Windows install and applications only take up about 200GB. Ebooks and Audiobooks take up about 1TB. Tutorials and tutorial videos (for just about everything there is to learn that I care about) take up about 1TB. I have about 50 games, most of which I never played yet, takes up between 500GB and 1TB, I think. Rosetta Stone for all languages takes up about 100GB. Miscellaneous things take up between 100GB and 500GB. Oh yeah, music takes up about 50GB, but now with massive more space it will probably take about 1TB. Web design stuff and server backups for up to 100 sites, and graphic design stuff, take up the rest - a very large amount which constantly increases. Videos, applications, ebooks, music, also increase regularly.
> ...



fdfgs....
If I'm wrong, then somewhere my karma has gone way down, but i simply dont believe you.
I'm running 4TB of storage plus two ssd's. im only using 3 tb for tv shows, games, (300+ on steam plus origin and other no drms), books, software (things like cs master collection and 3dsmax) and stored data for a friends business and website and appl (www.pushyparents.org if you dont believe me xD). with backups that would take me to 8TB, but like i said, still 1tb left for data anyway.
1tb for ebooks and audio books. Are you having a f***ing laugh?


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## 3870x2 (Nov 28, 2012)

RCoon said:


> fdfgs....
> If I'm wrong, then somewhere my karma has gone way down, but i simply dont believe you.
> I'm running 4TB of storage plus two ssd's. im only using 3 tb for tv shows, games, (300+ on steam plus origin and other no drms), books, software (things like cs master collection and 3dsmax) and stored data for a friends business and website and appl (www.pushyparents.org if you dont believe me xD). with backups that would take me to 8TB, but like i said, still 1tb left for data anyway.
> 1tb for ebooks and audio books. Are you having a f***ing laugh?



I don't know what you are trying to say, but I think you are calling him a liar for needing all that space?

If you don't believe him, move along.  It's not very difficult, if he thinks he needs 40TB, then that is outstanding.

If I am wrong, please disregard this post.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 28, 2012)

3870x2 said:


> I don't know what you are trying to say, but I think you are calling him a liar for needing all that space?
> 
> If you don't believe him, move along.  It's not very difficult, if he thinks he needs 40TB, then that is outstanding.
> 
> If I am wrong, please disregard this post.



He needs all that space so he can fit the internet into it.


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## RCoon (Nov 28, 2012)

3870x2 said:


> I don't know what you are trying to say, but I think you are calling him a liar for needing all that space?
> 
> If you don't believe him, move along.  It's not very difficult, if he thinks he needs 40TB, then that is outstanding.
> 
> If I am wrong, please disregard this post.



Hence my mention of karma at the start 
I just find his posts a little outlandish and unrealistic, but ill heed the advice and steer clear of his threads...


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## Irony (Nov 28, 2012)

Methinks somebody makes numbers up of the top of their head. 

If you really think youre gonna be using that much space get some of these

Mediasonic H82-SU3S2 3.5" Black USB3.0 & eSATA Pro...

If you want infinite storage it costs money. 

Also, I have more than 50 games, most of which between 5-10gb and that takes up less than 250gb. And why the crud would you ever have 1tb of music?


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## 3870x2 (Nov 28, 2012)

RCoon said:


> Hence my mention of karma at the start
> I just find his posts a little outlandish and unrealistic, but ill heed the advice and steer clear of his threads...



I will have to agree with you on that though, especially when he had 35 posts / day.  Maybe he is just overexcited to be a TPU member.


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## RCoon (Nov 28, 2012)

3870x2 said:


> I will have to agree with you on that though, especially when he had 35 posts / day.  Maybe he is just overexcited to be a TPU member.



As I'm certain many of us would be


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## Frick (Nov 28, 2012)

Irony said:


> And why the crud would you ever have 1tb of music?



WAV maybe? 

Or flac, in which case one CD is what? 400-500MB? If you're serious about it and have everything locally and digital it quickly adds up.


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## BUCK NASTY (Nov 28, 2012)

As my kids would say..."are we there yet"? Curious when there may be a pic of said build to back up the 9+ pages of posts?


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## Irony (Nov 28, 2012)

There was a picture of a sata power cable a couple pages back....lol


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## silkstone (Nov 28, 2012)

Frick said:


> WAV maybe?
> 
> Or flac, in which case one CD is what? 400-500MB? If you're serious about it and have everything locally and digital it quickly adds up.



I know audiophiles who don't compress their music by much, if at all. They swear they can tell the difference, i can't but, each to his/her own.

I could easily use 6Tb of storage and even more if i were to add redundancy. At the moment i must have at least 3Tb of stuff stored in multiple places with a couple of backups of my most essential data (>200gb) I would love to have 10 TB of storage including redundancy and everything i have stored on DVD/CD/USB could be transferred to one location. However i am a bit of a digital hoarder.

Edit - I have just looked at my ebook folder and i have close to 100gb in non audio books. But i have a ton of books that i use for teaching resources. Its a bit of a random of stuff i use for English (50gb of ESL books) if i were to actually start a real collection getting upto 1TB would not be too outlandish. I also, actully delete all my TV shows as i simpily no longer have the space.

At the end of the day, it's his money, he can spend it how he likes.

Some advice to the OP - If you are going for backup too, setup a raid system so you can get backup and use 6.5gb of your 10gb space.


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## repman244 (Nov 28, 2012)

Frick said:


> WAV maybe?
> 
> Or flac, in which case one CD is what? 400-500MB? If you're serious about it and have everything locally and digital it quickly adds up.



I've got everything in FLAC, however most of it are vinyl rips in 24bit/96kHz which makes the album around 1,3 - 1,4GB (around 100MB per song [FLAC]) and I'm at ~950GB.
But since ordinary people usually have MP3's or maybe CD rips in FLAC, it's hard to imagine hitting 1TB.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 28, 2012)

RCoon said:


> fdfgs....
> If I'm wrong, then somewhere my karma has gone way down, but i simply dont believe you.
> I'm running 4TB of storage plus two ssd's. im only using 3 tb for tv shows, games, (300+ on steam plus origin and other no drms), books, software (things like cs master collection and 3dsmax) and stored data for a friends business and website and appl (www.pushyparents.org if you dont believe me xD). with backups that would take me to 8TB, but like i said, still 1tb left for data anyway.
> 1tb for ebooks and audio books. Are you having a f***ing laugh?



hmm, didn't realize I would not be believed. Given the sheer size of the internet, I didn't think that believing me would be an issue. But just for your peace of mind , let me post some screenshots:

















I can post a space sniffer screenshot too, but it's going to take a long time for it to scan (so many files).



3870x2 said:


> I don't know what you are trying to say, but I think you are calling him a liar for needing all that space?
> 
> If you don't believe him, move along.  It's not very difficult, if he thinks he needs 40TB, then that is outstanding.



Thank you for the support 



brandonwh64 said:


> He needs all that space so he can fit the internet into it.



LOL... now where is that post where I explained how utterly ridiculous a statement like this is?...
...searching... ...can't find it. Maybe someone else can find it. Something like, if you put the entire internet on 2TB hard drives and put the hard drives side-by side, it would reach Mars; and how all the money in the entire world's economy (LITERALLY) is not enough to pay for all the hard drives it would take to fit the entire internet (if you bought the 2TB hard drives at $100 each). If anyone knows where that post is (I posted it), please post it here. I did all the math already and don't want to do it again. 



BUCK NASTY said:


> As my kids would say..."are we there yet"? Curious when there may be a pic of said build to back up the 9+ pages of posts?



Yea, sorry, I had to design a website last night but I did take the pictures of my new PC; I just need to upload them.

---------------------------------

Ok took the spacesniffer. This might be interesting to see for people who wonder how someone can be using 4TB of space.

I only took it of the 3TB drive and 1TB drive, and also I used up the full span of both my monitors so you can read what a lot of the folders are.

eh.. was too large and postimage resized them. Just a moment...

Ok here you go (full size images):











Please note that Games and Applications are on multiple drives and multiple locations on the drives, due to size.

There are also about a couple more hundred GB of games (game files, not counting install data), and couple hundred more of applications (application files, not counting install data), on my D drive, which I didn't post a spacesniffer screenshot of.



repman244 said:


> I've got everything in FLAC, however most of it are vinyl rips in 24bit/96kHz which makes the album around 1,3 - 1,4GB (around 100MB per song [FLAC]) and I'm at ~950GB.
> But since ordinary people usually have MP3's or maybe CD rips in FLAC, it's hard to imagine hitting 1TB.



I'm like you and prefer to have high quality! Excited to start getting tons of new music! 
Thanks VLC!
>>and Thanks TPB



Irony said:


> If you really think you're gonna be using that much space get some of these
> 
> Mediasonic H82-SU3S2 3.5" Black USB3.0 & eSATA Pro...



$260 for a case? no thanks. Most normal cases $50 or even less can fit 8 HDD, usually only with a couple of 5.25 to 3.5" adapters, which are like $10 apiece. Then spend the extra $200 on a few more TB of space


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## Binge (Nov 29, 2012)

I can't tell if the kid delivered pics or any credible decision... see sneaky taught me about the ignore list. 

::EDIT:: oh yeah it doesn't prevent me from seeing double posts.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 29, 2012)

*Pictures!*


































































Currently still waiting for:
* SSD
* Fans
* USB to SATA cable
* SATA power extension cables

After that, it will be complete. As it is now though, it's fully functional. I just installed Windows onto one of the 2TB drives, for now.
Also I won't add the extra 1TB 2.5" drive until I completely transition to the new computer (because it is currently in my other computer).


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## Irony (Nov 30, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> all the money in the entire world's economy (LITERALLY) is not enough to pay for all the hard drives it would take to fit the entire internet (if you bought the 2TB hard drives at $100 each). If anyone knows where that post is (I posted it), please post it here. I did all the math already and don't want to do it again.



Yup, the internet is in an imaginary magical place that requires no storage medium.  Ummmm.... Fail. The entire internet is actually already stored on a bajillion hard drives, the total cost of which was significantly less than the entire worlds economy. Thats what happens when you push the multiply button instead of the divide button....

:shadedshu


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