# Unable to get system stable when ram is at 3600mhz



## travva (Oct 26, 2020)

Hey all! I haven't been around here in awhile but I'm quite frustrated with getting my ram to work as intended so here I am. The story is that I bought a BLD from NZXT and it came with some pretty great ram, but it was a 4x8gb configuration. Upon researching, I drew the conclusion that I should not have done that and gone with 2x16 instead, so I sold that ram and got 2x16. I think now that I was wrong in my interpretation but whatever. On to my current dilemma: my system is karhu stable using XMP settings, however the system is not completely stable and the system reboots randomly either at load or idle and logs a WHEA 18 error. My thinking based on research is this is IF instability related but I'm not completely sure. I did also use the settings below from Ryzen Master and I didn't get a WHEA error but I came back to my computer at one point and it was off. I'm not sure what the indicates but it does worry me a bit. I turned it back on and it booted right up with same settings applied in bios etc. As of today I have updated to the latest beta bios for my motherboard to see what effect that has but I'm not super optimistic. Do you guys have any advice on what to try here? I'm not really looking to do anything hardcore or extreme and really just want my ram to work at 3600. I do plan  on getting the 5950 when it drops but that could be a matter of days or weeks depending on how it plays out. HELP!

TL;DR what can i do to get my ram to work at 3600mhz? 

My specs are as follows:

MSI gaming edge wifi x570
3950x
32gb ddr4 3600 ram CMW32GX4M2Z3600C18 
3080FE


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## Zach_01 (Oct 27, 2020)

Hi there!
How is your current settings?

Instead or writing them down, if you like and have the time, post screenshots of the following

  

It will give people here all the info they need to help you.


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

Thanks for replying man! Here are some screenshots. The HWINFO one may be a bit overboard but i couldn't figure out how to condense it quickly. At the moment I am using Ryzen Master safe settings on the latest beta bios as I saw it mentioned some OC fixes and some memory stability improvements. I'm open to any suggestions though and again, thanks for replying!


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## Zach_01 (Oct 27, 2020)

For strarters I would suggest to Enable the "Gear Down Mode" in BIOS.
The one that shows as "GDM: Disabled" on ZenTimings.

This is free +stability with the expence of a little latency. But it may give you headroom for higher speed and/or tighter timings

Is your DRAM voltage around 1.4~1.42V as HWiNFO shows for DIMM sensor?


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

Thanks! When I last went into the BIOS, I noticed that gear down mode was greyed out. The option was there and set to auto I believe but I couldn't select/change it. Any idea why that might be? And yes, I have set the voltage to 1.4 as per ryzen calculator recommendations.


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## Zach_01 (Oct 27, 2020)

travva said:


> Thanks! When I last went into the BIOS, I noticed that gear down mode was greyed out. The option was there and set to auto I believe but I couldn't select/change it. Any idea why that might be? And yes, I have set the voltage to 1.4 as per ryzen calculator recommendations.


Did you manually set Command Rate to 1T? If yes then set Cmd to auto and then see if  GDM will light up.


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Did you manually set Command Rate to 1T? If yes then set Cmd to auto and then see if  GDM will light up.



Yep, that must be it. I'll check that out if the system restarts again. Do you think exploring GDM is necessary if the system passes several 1000% karhu tests? The memory itself, at least in my non-expert opinion seems perfectly fine and I believe I've used both xmp profiles previously and passed karhu > 6000% but ultimately the restart/WHEA 18 error persisted in those cases.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2020)

Shouldn't be GDM issue. Best to have it on but if the ICs can't sustain GDM off, it'll be the first to show up in Karhu or HCI. Heck, instability due to GDM off will consistently show even in the super short built-in HCI test contained in Ryzen DRAM Calculator's membench. If it can past extended testing in Karhu or HCI, the RAM is most definitely not the problem.

Event 18 has me a little suspicious. If the Event Viewer details look like this:



Then it's an IF issue. That's what I get and the exact behaviour I get when running 3733 and 3800. The memory is stable, but even at SoC over 1.10V, the Infinity Fabric occasionally throws a hissy fit and reboots, crashes, BSODs or does some other wack shit. So far, I've not found any way to eliminate these problems above 3600.

Regardless, that VSoC needs to come up to 1.10V asap to rule it out as a possible issue. 1800MHz/3600MT/s may be doable at 1.05V or less, but it's hardly guaranteed. Get SoC to 1.1V (just set that in the BIOS, it'll droop a bit in actual reported V in Windows but that's fine), then spend a few days using your comp.

Worst part about IF errors is that they can't be caught in testing. They show up days, weeks down the line when you least expect it.


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## Zach_01 (Oct 27, 2020)

I would agree with the above. Set 1.1V for VSOC and see how it will go. DRAMcalculator build-in membench is really nice fast way to detect errors (2~3min). If it passed that then you are really close to 99~100% stability.

Right now ZenTimings sees a ~1.03V for VSOC. SVI2 TFN sensor is closest to the real thing that you can get. Same sensor is on HWiNFO: "SoC voltage (SVI2 TFN)".
It's right if you've set it manually to 1.05V like calculator suggested to you. All board SoC VRM usually output less than the actual setting. So if you set it to 1.1V you will see a value of 1.05~1.08V


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

Thanks ya'll! I actually can't recall whether I did minimum or recommended VSOC this go around but I will absolutely check that if it happens again. From there, if it continues then I can assume that means this 3950x can't do 1800 IF? In that case, would I be better off lowering my ram to 3200 and tightening timings?


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## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2020)

travva said:


> Thanks ya'll! I actually can't recall whether I did minimum or recommended VSOC this go around but I will absolutely check that if it happens again. From there, if it continues then I can assume that means this 3950x can't do 1800 IF? In that case, would I be better off lowering my ram to 3200 and tightening timings?



You could do that, but I would be extremely surprised if a 3950X couldn't do 1800MHz IF, especially one manufactured recently. For this very reason, on Asus and Gigabyte boards, setting 3600MT/s XMP RAM automatically dictates 1.10V VSoC as an auto-rule. I don't know why it's not the case for MSI.

As for 3200 and tightening timings, ICs don't exactly work that way. Keeping tCL the same and scaling frequency UP is always easier than tightening tCL below what it's rated for. Hence why 3200 14-14-14 B-die kits exist.

Once you get into higher MT/s speeds, you'll find that DRAM calculator's recommendations on various voltages can be really......broad and optimistic. When in doubt, set VSoC at 1.1V and cut it out of the equation.

Do take a look at your Event Viewer and try to find details for the exact event at the time of the crash. WHEA can report a lot of hardware errors and CPU/Interconnect is just one of many possible CPU errors (e.g. unstable CPU overclock due to insufficient voltage, the dreaded cache errors, etc.).


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## Chomiq (Oct 27, 2020)

You could try and use something similar to mine (they're for single rank, not dual but still):

DRAM volt 1.4 V, SOC Voltage 1.1 V, VDDP 0.9 V, VDDG 1.05 V. GDM ON, PDM OFF


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## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2020)

Chomiq said:


> Use mine (they're for single rank, not dual but still):
> 
> DRAM volt 1.4 V, SOC Voltage 1.1 V, VDDP 0.9 V, VDDG 1.05 V. GDM ON, PDM OFF, ProcODT 40 Ohm.



Some caution with that one. Single rank procODT doesn't usually carry over to dual rank procODT; dual rank usually wants higher, in the 50s-60. But yeah, otherwise makes sense. OP says he's done lots of Karhu so the memory appears okay, might be insufficient VSoC or an I/O to chiplet IF issue.

@travva BZ talks about the difference in stability between the three key players (RAM, memory controller, IF) at the timestamp *16:40* on this link and why IC stability doesn't mean IF stability:


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## Chomiq (Oct 27, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Some caution with that one. Single rank procODT doesn't usually carry over to dual rank procODT; dual rank usually wants higher, in the 50s-60.


I'm no expert by any means so all input is welcome.

OP:





						Ballistix Sport LT Overclocking
					

Thought I'd make a thread to see how people were getting on with this RAM. I have been playing around and have discovered what a deep rabbit hole RAM overclocking is! I've been using DRAM calculator for Ryzen 1.5.1 to get me started and I'm running the below:  Ballistix Sport LT -...




					www.overclockers.co.uk
				



Recommended read.


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> You could do that, but I would be extremely surprised if a 3950X couldn't do 1800MHz IF, especially one manufactured recently. For this very reason, on Asus and Gigabyte boards, setting 3600MT/s XMP RAM automatically dictates 1.10V VSoC as an auto-rule. I don't know why it's not the case for MSI.
> 
> As for 3200 and tightening timings, ICs don't exactly work that way. Keeping tCL the same and scaling frequency UP is always easier than tightening tCL below what it's rated for. Hence why 3200 14-14-14 B-die kits exist.
> 
> ...



Thank you! I didn't explicitly say so but that is the error in my event viewer, whea 18, but mine shows cache hierarchy error. Any insight into what that can mean vs bus interconnect?


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## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2020)

travva said:


> Thank you! I didn't explicitly say so but that is the error in my event viewer, whea 18, but mine shows cache hierarchy error. Any insight into what that can mean vs bus interconnect?



Yikes, uhh not what I was expecting. That's one of the "other" CPU errors I was alluding to earlier. CPU-side overclocking is not exactly my forte, and from everywhere that I've seen other Ryzen 3000 owners complaining about the cache hierarchy WHEA error they've all ended up RMAing their CPUs.

The caches are located on the chiplet dies with the cores. So aside from suggesting you look into the usual CPU-side overclocking culprits (e.g. not enough core voltage), not much I can tell you there if you're running stock settings on the CPU side.

Are all of the WHEA 18 instances *that *cache hierarchy error, or are they all over the place? Might need to get on a more up-to-date BIOS if one is available. Could be that MSI's firmware isn't providing enough idle voltage to sustain light load boosting on one core.


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

Chomiq said:


> I'm no expert by any means so all input is welcome.
> 
> OP:
> 
> ...



What specifically am I looking for here? I just see that thread is super long. Do you just mean read through it entirely or?


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## DizConnected (Oct 27, 2020)

Ryzen 3950x and a RTX3080FE, what power supply are you using?


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Yikes, uhh not what I was expecting. That's one of the "other" CPU errors I was alluding to earlier. CPU-side overclocking is not exactly my forte, and from everywhere that I've seen other Ryzen 3000 owners complaining about the cache hierarchy WHEA error they've all ended up RMAing their CPUs.
> 
> The caches are located on the chiplet dies with the cores. So aside from suggesting you look into the usual CPU-side overclocking culprits (e.g. not enough core voltage), not much I can tell you there if you're running stock settings on the CPU side.
> 
> Are all of the WHEA 18 instances *that *cache hierarchy error, or are they all over the place?



Yes indeed, they are all that specific error. The only thing that changes is the APIC ID. I had read a thread on reddit where someone said RMA'ing their cpu solved the problem so I do wonder if that's the case for me. I am pretty set on getting a 5950x so if I end up selling this one then I'll make sure to mention this. It does make sense with the erratic nature of this error that maybe it does happen at stock and I just haven't been patient enough to observe it.



DizConnected said:


> Ryzen 3950x and a RTX3080FE, what power supply are you using?
> 
> View attachment 173556



i'm using an NZXT c1000 PSU.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2020)

travva said:


> Yes indeed, they are all that specific error. The only thing that changes is the APIC ID. I had read a thread on reddit where someone said RMA'ing their cpu solved the problem so I do wonder if that's the case for me. I am pretty set on getting a 5950x so if I end up selling this one then I'll make sure to mention this. It does make sense with the erratic nature of this error that maybe it does happen at stock and I just haven't been patient enough to observe it.



I'd take a longer look around the web to see if you can find any other solutions to the cache hierarchy issue but yeah, my few hours of looking on the subject have only turned up RMA as the only solution on every thread. One guy made it go away by setting his 3900X to a low fixed clock of 3.8GHz (which makes sense given the context of the error), but at that point with the performance loss you'd be better served with warranty service anyways.

The BIOS update might be first worth a try, but otherwise an RMA is probably in order. As to the RAM, if it's stable in extensive Karhu/HCI/TM5, sfc/scannow and chkdsk don't turn up any errors or disk corruption, and you're not accumulating any interconnect errors, then no need to worry.


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## biffzinker (Oct 27, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Yikes, uhh not what I was expecting. That's one of the "other" CPU errors I was alluding to earlier. CPU-side overclocking is not exactly my forte, and from everywhere that I've seen other Ryzen 3000 owners complaining about the cache hierarchy WHEA error they've all ended up RMAing their CPUs.
> 
> The caches are located on the chiplet dies with the cores. So aside from suggesting you look into the usual CPU-side overclocking culprits (e.g. not enough core voltage), not much I can tell you there if you're running stock settings on the CPU side.
> 
> Are all of the WHEA 18 instances *that *cache hierarchy error, or are they all over the place? Might need to get on a more up-to-date BIOS if one is available. Could be that MSI's firmware isn't providing enough idle voltage to sustain light load boosting on one core.


There was a newer bios revision that corrected that issue. I had it happening to me then it went away after the bios update.


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> There was a newer bios revision that corrected that issue. I had it happening to me then it went away after the bios update.



That's good to hear! Was it the exact same error I posted, including the cache hierarchy? As I said I did just update to a beta bios for the board that's mostly geared toward zen3 but it did mention some OC/memory stuff.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> There was a newer bios revision that corrected that issue. I had it happening to me then it went away after the bios update.



I just missed the fact that he said he's on the latest beta BIOS. Not looking good there. As to other owners with the cache hierarchy error, BIOS updates didn't do much.

Actually, @travva the APIC ID refers to the core/thread reporting the error. So for your stock 3950X, there are 32 possible numbers that can show up there. If the core numbers are all over the place, suggest you find a BIOS to update/downgrade to and see if things improve. Seems to point to a firmware problem, possibly with idle voltages. Make sure your chipset drivers are also up to date; they go hand in hand with AGESA.

Vermeer is just over a week out; vendors will all be pushing out AGESA 1.1.0.0 BIOS updates. Fingers crossed.

Another thought, if it's crashing at idle, try and find the option for Low Current Idle in your BIOS and change it to Standard Current Idle. Not sure what it's called on MSI.


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## biffzinker (Oct 27, 2020)

I remember getting WHEA errors, I’m not 100% if they were cache hierarchy. I’m pretty certain it was that though. I remember it being noted as fixed in a change log for a AGESA update.



tabascosauz said:


> Another thought, if it's crashing at idle, try and find the option for Low Current Idle in your BIOS and change it to Standard Current Idle. Not sure what it's called on MSI.


It’s the same naming for both options. There’s a drop down menu in CPU features if you move down to the bottom of the Advance tab.


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> I just missed the fact that he said he's on the latest beta BIOS. Not looking good there. As to other owners with the cache hierarchy error, BIOS updates didn't do much.
> 
> Actually, @travva the APIC ID refers to the core/thread reporting the error. So for your stock 3950X, there are 32 possible numbers that can show up there. If the core numbers are all over the place, suggest you find a BIOS to update/downgrade to and see if things improve. Seems to point to a firmware problem, possibly with idle voltages. Make sure your chipset drivers are also up to date; they go hand in hand with AGESA.
> 
> ...



They are all over the place. At one point I thought the issue was because I was using Ryzen balanced plan but that turned out to not be the case. And yes this latest beta is AGESA 1.1.0.0 so maybe it will be the fix. Otherwise I will do what you said and try to downgrade the BIOS to see if that has any affect. When I got this computer, I did update the bios right away which maybe was a poor decision in hindsight.



biffzinker said:


> I remember getting WHEA errors, I’m not 100% if they were cache hierarchy. I’m pretty certain it was that though. I remember it being noted as fixed in a change log for a AGESA update.
> 
> 
> It’s the same naming for both options. There’s a drop down menu in CPU features if you move down to the bottom of the Advance tab.



Awesome! That is definitely not something I've explored yet so will check that out too. Thank you guys so much! I was complaining to my buddy earlier that I posted here for the first time in a decade after Reddit wasn't much help, and how I got no reply. I was just impatient as it turns out! 



biffzinker said:


> I remember getting WHEA errors, I’m not 100% if they were cache hierarchy. I’m pretty certain it was that though. I remember it being noted as fixed in a change log for a AGESA update.
> 
> 
> It’s the same naming for both options. There’s a drop down menu in CPU features if you move down to the bottom of the Advance tab.



@biffzinker when you had the WHEA,. it wasn't the same board I have right? If not, was it MSI at least?



tabascosauz said:


> I just missed the fact that he said he's on the latest beta BIOS. Not looking good there. As to other owners with the cache hierarchy error, BIOS updates didn't do much.
> 
> Actually, @travva the APIC ID refers to the core/thread reporting the error. So for your stock 3950X, there are 32 possible numbers that can show up there. If the core numbers are all over the place, suggest you find a BIOS to update/downgrade to and see if things improve. Seems to point to a firmware problem, possibly with idle voltages. Make sure your chipset drivers are also up to date; they go hand in hand with AGESA.
> 
> ...



@tabascosauz I just found the following which I believe is from an AMD employee on their forums: 

amdmatt



Oct 26, 2020 8:00 AM
Have you tried a different, better quality PSU?

Look for an option in the BIOS called Power Supply Idle Control, try setting this to Typical.

Pretty sure this guys talking about the same thing you are! Not that I needed more convincing but that may the culprit.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2020)

@travva that's the one. Couldn't remember the name lol. Ryzen idles at low voltage (0.2V or lower) with that setting enabled. Can be an issue on some systems. You aren't losing performance with it turned to Typical.


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## moproblems99 (Oct 27, 2020)

travva said:


> What specifically am I looking for here? I just see that thread is super long. Do you just mean read through it entirely or?



If you can run it at 3200 with no problems then technically your stuff is all fine.  Nothing over 3200 is guaranteed.  Of the three chips that I have personally handled, only 1 would even boot with ram set over 3200.


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## biffzinker (Oct 27, 2020)

travva said:


> If not, was it MSI at least?


I think was with the MSI B350 Gaming mATX.


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

So I just had a strange thing happen. I fired up PUBG and suddenly my system shut down. This time though, it did not restart. I then noticed on my UPS (which is also new) that it beeped twice, repeatedly in maybe 30 second intervals. I had this multiplug plugged in and I saw the protected light going off and on. So, the point is, do you think this is a completely separate issue or could it possibly be related? Is it possible my problems are some how electrical or related to this surge protector/ups?


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## Deleted member 193596 (Oct 27, 2020)

so many posts about this crap software...

dram calculator is literally a list of timings from people who "claimed" (without any proof) that timings XY on THEIR Ram Kit and THEIR CPU on THEIR Motherboard posts.


this software is complete garbage and barely functional at all. (in my case 3 kits on two CPU and two motherboards never even posted even with the safe preset.)


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## biffzinker (Oct 27, 2020)

travva said:


> Is it possible my problems are some how electrical or related to this surge protector/ups?


Best guess from me is that surge suppressor has a low current trip. What happens without it plugged in?


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## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2020)

travva said:


> So I just had a strange thing happen. I fired up PUBG and suddenly my system shut down. This time though, it did not restart. I then noticed on my UPS (which is also new) that it beeped twice, repeatedly in maybe 30 second intervals. I had this multiplug plugged in and I saw the protected light going off and on. So, the point is, do you think this is a completely separate issue or could it possibly be related? Is it possible my problems are some how electrical or related to this surge protector/ups?



If the UPS is a UPS and not a three legged alien from Mars, it shouldn't be affecting your PC in any way if your PC is protected by it. That is, as long as you're not plugging the multiplug into the UPS or the multiplug into the surge protector, both of which shouldn't be done.

A split second brownout isn't something you'll be oblivious to, if your PC isn't protected by a UPS. Many times I've had those prior to getting my APC BR1500MS, and often times the comp would blackscreen for the half-second brown/blackout then be right back to business as if nothing happened as soon as the power came back. Longer blackouts and the PC would obvious shut off, PSU hold-up time is not that good. Definitely wasn't good practice, but you get the idea.

All in all, I don't think this is the culprit behind your WHEA errors. Best course of action would be to get in contact with AMD and open an RMA. In the best case, MSI puts out its final 1.1.0.0. BIOS next week and it fixes your problem and you can call off the RMA, no harm no foul.


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> Best guess from me is that surge suppressor has a low current trip. What happens without it plugged in?



Dunno but I took the thing i posted the picture of out of the loop as it was only there due to me being lazy. My pc happens to be in my living room and there's lots of stuff plugged into the ups/backup and I haven't noticed any issues otherwise. My google wifi and tv are plugged into it and my internet doesn't drop nor does my tv ever have any issues. I do see that this backup uses simulated sine wave output and though I don't know what that really means, I recall seeing that mentioned in the past in regards to PSU's. You think that could potentially be causing issues? I never thought for a minute that maybe this ups is the problem but maybe?



tabascosauz said:


> If the UPS is a UPS and not a three legged alien from Mars, it shouldn't be affecting your PC in any way if your PC is protected by it. That is, as long as you're not plugging the multiplug into the UPS or the multiplug into the surge protector, both of which shouldn't be done.



What do you mean here? Do you mean having the UPS plugged into the thing I posted the picture of is probably a bad idea?



WarTherapy1195 said:


> so many posts about this crap software...
> 
> dram calculator is literally a list of timings from people who "claimed" (without any proof) that timings XY on THEIR Ram Kit and THEIR CPU on THEIR Motherboard posts.
> 
> ...



My post really has nothing to do with "this crap software" Maybe you should consider that if people rant and rave about this software and you've had zero success with it, maybe that's a you problem and not dram calculator problem? Regardless, my post really has very little to do with it, and especially not in a negative sense.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2020)

travva said:


> Dunno but I took the thing i posted the picture of out of the loop as it was only there due to me being lazy. My pc happens to be in my living room and there's lots of stuff plugged into the ups/backup and I haven't noticed any issues otherwise. My google wifi and tv are plugged into it and my internet doesn't drop nor does my tv ever have any issues. I do see that this backup uses simulated sine wave output and though I don't know what that really means, I recall seeing that mentioned in the past in regards to PSU's. You think that could potentially be causing issues? I never thought for a minute that maybe this ups is the problem but maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean here? Do you mean having the UPS plugged into the thing I posted the picture of is probably a bad idea?



Yeah, that's not something you're supposed to do...

The UPS incorporates surge suppression and AVR functions. It doesn't need something else to do that. If the current into the UPS is reduced/affected by the surge suppressor activating, I'm not sure how exactly the UPS will react.

Use the suppressor / the non-battery ports on the UPS for non essential stuff (desk lamp, table fan) that you want OFF in event of bad electricity supply. Use the battery ports on the UPS for essential things that you want ON. Don't mix the two together, either through plugging the UPS into the surge suppressor or vice versa.


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## OC-Ghost (Oct 27, 2020)

Is that a reflection in the plug picture or is it melted on the back side?    (small warning: Amazon basics might not be quality stuff)

Have you tried CL18 because your ryzen dram calc & zen timings says CL16, but your ram kit is rated at 3600 CL18 ?


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

OC-Ghost said:


> Is that a reflection in the plug picture or is it melted on the back side?    (small warning: Amazon basics might not be quality stuff)
> 
> Have you tried CL18 because your ryzen dram calc & zen timings says CL16, but your ram kit is rated at 3600 CL18 ?



It's a reflection lol, but you're right about that stuff not being quality. 
Yeah, well, I haven't manually but as I said before the ram passes tests when either of the XMP profiles are used so I don't think that's a problem.

@tabascosauz after my (hopefully fixed and unrelated) power issue, I put the SOC voltage up to 1.1.


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## Noreng (Oct 27, 2020)

From your HWiNFO picture on the previous page, the memory temperature sensors reports DIMM slot 2 and 3. Did you put your memory sticks next to each other?
In case you did put the memory sticks next to each other, read the manual.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 27, 2020)

travva said:


> snip



Did you...set some timings manually according to DRAM Calc's recommendations? tRFC is not supposed to be the same as tRFC2 and tRFC4...

They have a set relationship with each other but generally you can just set tRFC and let the board take care of the rest. Leave the other two on Auto.

For reference (not for comparison, I have Hynix DJR instead of Micron Rev.E like you):


Hence why I caution about taking DRAM Calc as gospel; for many different reasons, a lot of what it contains should only be considered as a passing suggestion, if that. For example, procODT and the CADBUS settings (Clkdrvstrength, addrcmddrvstrength, etc.) should only be changed if you have trouble booting or achieving stability and have exhausted your other options. Those settings don't really exist on a scale, they either work or don't, and along with some of the minor tertiaries should be left alone if everything's working properly.



Noreng said:


> From your HWiNFO picture on the previous page, the memory temperature sensors reports DIMM slot 2 and 3. Did you put your memory sticks next to each other?
> In case you did put the memory sticks next to each other, read the manual.



Mine always display as [2] and [3]. That's just how the software interprets things. It's not like the DIMM slots are numbered 1/2/3/4 in any motherboard ever anyways, usually A1/B1/A2/B2...

"Read the manual"? Couldn't even be bothered to explain to him why? lmao perhaps take your own advice regarding HWInfo?


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## travva (Oct 27, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Did you...set some timings manually according to DRAM Calc's recommendations? tRFC is not supposed to be the same as tRFC2 and tRFC4...
> 
> They have a set relationship with each other but generally you can just set tRFC and let the board take care of the rest. Leave the other two on Auto.
> 
> ...



I set all my timings manually per dram calc because that's what the internet says to do lol... but i really just did it to try and figure this thing out. All of the voltages and timings are based off the recs in below screenshot. Should i go about it a different way? As for the ram slots, I'm not quite that much of a noob and did, in fact, RTFM. They're in second and fourth from cpu, per the manual.


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## biffzinker (Oct 28, 2020)

travva said:


> I set all my timings manually per dram calc because that's what the internet says to do lol... but i really just did it to try and figure this thing out. All of the voltages and timings are based off the recs in below screenshot. Should i go about it a different way? As for the ram slots, I'm not quite that much of a noob and did, in fact, RTFM. They're in second and fourth from cpu, per the manual.
> 
> View attachment 173566


I see Gear Down Mode is still disabled. Have you tried even number timings such as 16-18-18-18 with Gear Down Mode enabled?

Here's a quick overview of what happens with QDM actived.


> So AMD came up with 'Gear Down Mode' which is sort of like 1.5T. It's more compatible than 1T, less compatible than 2T, and sits in the middle in terms of performance penalty. One of the consequences of 'Gear Down Mode' is that tCL timings are rounded up to the nearest even number. Odd numbers don't work. If you really really want to run tight timings, disabling gear down mode is an option - but it's up to you to decide if that's the best option-whether you'll see a performance benefit vs clocking higher isn't for me to say.
> Gear Down Mode is by default set to 'Auto' and if the memory is clocked higher than 2666, the motherboard will enable it automatically.


&


> Here is what AMD said about GDM and BankGroupSwap:
> 
> 
> > _Most gamers should disable BankGroupSwap. You should also  disable GearDownMode if the memory overclock is already stable with a 1T command rate. As with any settings, your mileage may vary._




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/ryzen/comments/aemfto


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## tabascosauz (Oct 28, 2020)

travva said:


> I set all my timings manually per dram calc because that's what the internet says to do lol... but i really just did it to try and figure this thing out. All of the voltages and timings are based off the recs in below screenshot. Should i go about it a different way? As for the ram slots, I'm not quite that much of a noob and did, in fact, RTFM. They're in second and fourth from cpu, per the manual.



I've professed enough times my dislike of users importing XMP into DRAM Calc instead of just taking the software's general recommended profiles instead by using a PCB Revision other than Manual, so I won't do it again. Seeing as DRAM isn't really the main issue here, I'd play it safe by:

Leaving tRFC at whatever is recommended, but changing tRFC2 and tRFC4 to Auto
Running HCI (enough parallel instances to fill up the RAM while leaving ~2GB for Windows) just to make sure your Karhu settings aren't missing anything
Leaving GDM on just to be safe
Leaving procODT on Auto if you're up for it
Then focusing attention on trying to eliminate the cache WHEA errors through changing settings / waiting for a BIOS update / setting up RMA with AMD. Perhaps try the Typical Current Idle settings and testing some fixed frequency / fixed voltage lower speed overclocks (e.g. 3.6-4.0GHz) if you feel comfortable, to see if it changes anything.

Generally, 3600 16-x-x profiles will require GDM. 3600 17-x-x and 18-x-x might be able to get away with GDM disabled more consistently. Basically above a certain speed / tight timings, you can usually bet on needing GDM for AMD or 2T for Intel. But if your Karhu testing does accurately reflect stability, then I suppose your timings are loose enough or you're pumping enough DRAM voltage not to need GDM.


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## Zach_01 (Oct 28, 2020)

I know that different board, rams, CPU cant be copy-paste on settings, but just for reference...

I have "Power Supply Idle Control"  on "Low Current Idle".


GDM: Enabled
PDM: Disabled

Something else I forgot to mention to many times (I'm getting old) is the BIOS setting of

"SoC/Uncore OC mode" and I keep it Enabled. According to buildzoid when this is enabled it disables the I/O die power savings and may help with RAM/UMC/IF overclocking.
May add 1~2W on SoC consumption


The tRFC values have this relation
tRFC2 = tRFC / 1.346
tRFC4 = tRFC2 / 1.625

But...

The DRAMcalculator on the "Additional Calculators" tab has a tRFC... wait for it.... calculator!
You can find instantly all tRFCs by entering the speed and ns.

For example you enter 350ns and 3600MHz


If you want to tight tRFCs you keep ns the same and you give it lower speed


My current tRFCs are for 350ns and 2000MHz


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## (*^^*) (Oct 28, 2020)

Normally, you should just load XMP.  For some reason, you may have to manually enter the latency and memory timing in the same way as the specifications.


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## mxking035 (Oct 28, 2020)

travva said:


> I set all my timings manually per dram calc because that's what the internet says to do lol... but i really just did it to try and figure this thing out. All of the voltages and timings are based off the recs in below screenshot. Should i go about it a different way? As for the ram slots, I'm not quite that much of a noob and did, in fact, RTFM. They're in second and fourth from cpu, per the manual.


If you don't have problem running with 3200mhz, then its your ram or the timings.

Why not Enable GDM first and set tRFC=570. 
Also your voltages are already high for 3600 loose timings.


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## travva (Oct 28, 2020)

@tabascosauz question for you: i notice in just reading stuff online that one of the ram review sites has a screenshot of a better version of my board and there's something in it that confused me





when you guys are telling me to set SOC to 1.1, are you meaning the chipset SOC or cpu NB/SOC? My board has both of these entries and I believe I set the CPU NB/SOC to 1.1 but now I wonder based on this screenshot.


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## tabascosauz (Oct 28, 2020)

travva said:


> @tabascosauz question for you: i notice in just reading stuff online that one of the ram review sites has a screenshot of a better version of my board and there's something in it that confused me
> 
> View attachment 173651
> 
> when you guys are telling me to set SOC to 1.1, are you meaning the chipset SOC or cpu NB/SOC? My board has both of these entries and I believe I set the CPU NB/SOC to 1.1 but now I wonder based on this screenshot.



Ugh MSI BIOS. CPU NB/SoC is the right one. It's the voltage fed to the I/O die in the CPU containing all the I/O functions and memory controller, which I guess can be synonymous with northbridge. The other one is something to do with the X570 PCH, nothing to do with memory.


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## travva (Oct 28, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Ugh MSI BIOS. CPU NB/SoC is the right one. It's the voltage fed to the I/O die in the CPU containing all the I/O functions and memory controller, which I guess can be synonymous with northbridge. The other one is something to do with the X570 PCH, nothing to do with memory.



Awesome! Thanks again, I really appreciate all of your help and expertise, truly.

@tabascosauz sorry to be so needy but can you tell me if there's an easy way to compare what the differences in the two xmp profiles on my ram are? like through typhoon or similar software?


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## biffzinker (Oct 28, 2020)

travva said:


> @tabascosauz sorry to be so needy but can you tell me if there's an easy way to compare what the differences in the two xmp profiles on my ram are? like through typhoon or similar software?


Should be able to check the two XMP profiles in the BIOS. The Memory-Z at the bottom of the Overclocking Tab in the BIOS. You can take screenshots of the BIOS with F12 if you have FAT32 formatted partition somewhere on a drive. I plugged in a flash drive since all SSD/HDDs are formatted as NTFS, and EXT4. The images are saved as bitmap.


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## travva (Oct 28, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> Should be able to check the two XMP profiles in the BIOS. The Memory-Z at the bottom of the Overclocking Tab in the BIOS. You can take screenshots of the BIOS with F12 if you have FAT32 formatted partition somewhere on a drive. I plugged in a flash drive since all SSD/HDDs are formatted as NTFS, and EXT4. The images are saved as bitmap.
> View attachment 173676
> 
> View attachment 173677



Sweet, thank you!


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## travva (Nov 4, 2020)

just wanted to give ya'll an update: after applying new bios and removing that amazon basics adapter thing, my system seems stable. I went 6 days with no crash and then ended up crashing due to a geforce experience issue which is completely unrelated. I think I'm good to go now and just wanted to reply back. My thought is the beta bios was the fix since that makes the most sense.


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## Labe_Pl (Jan 11, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> You could do that, but I would be extremely surprised if a 3950X couldn't do 1800MHz IF, especially one manufactured recently. For this very reason, on Asus and Gigabyte boards, setting 3600MT/s XMP RAM automatically dictates 1.10V VSoC as an auto-rule. I don't know why it's not the case for MSI.
> 
> As for 3200 and tightening timings, ICs don't exactly work that way. Keeping tCL the same and scaling frequency UP is always easier than tightening tCL below what it's rated for. Hence why 3200 14-14-14 B-die kits exist.
> 
> ...


and you helped me with this post, I have exactly the same board as the owner of the thread and I also couldn't break the frequency barrier 3600 on the memories the stability limit was 3533 no matter what delay I set, until I read about the chipset voltage and it is 3733 rock stable, thanks


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## freeagent (Jan 11, 2021)

Interesting. Maybe the most expensive CPU’s don’t get the best of the best parts after all.


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