# High ping in games, what else?



## AngryMerchant (Jul 31, 2013)

My parents' house has has AT&T wireless for quite a while.  Generally, it's been pretty solid performance-wise, but has been plagued by very frequent disconnects.  The current router, provided by AT&T of course, feels like a cheap piece of plastic, but besides that, it has issues with games.  I know next to nothing about network terminology, so everything I say is going to be pretty amateurish.  At first, it performed as well as usual. My ping is generally very low, 10-50 in most non-West coast U.S. servers (only games I really play are TF2 and Chivalry).  Then it jumped up to consistently above 60-80 on all U.S. servers (both games).  Then the disconnecting became particularly bad.  Someone came in to check on it, and for once, managed to accomplish something, because the disconnects are nearly gone now.  But the ping issue still remains.  First off, how should I measure the wireless speed, so I'm not just going by ping in games?  Videos usually load adequately, and files download at a decent enough speed, but games?  Not a chance.

I'm typing this in somewhat of a hurry, so it might be an incomprehensible mess.  I can check the router at some point, all I know for now is it's an AT&T branded netgear.


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## Mussels (Jul 31, 2013)

open a CMD prompt


ping google.com -t


that will run a never ending pingtest to google, so you can try things out to see how to fix it. firstly i'd say disconnect every other device off the network, and see how it works from there.

you say its wireless - is that DSL/cable or mobile broadband?


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## Seany1212 (Jul 31, 2013)

Mussels said:


> you say its wireless - is that DSL/cable or mobile broadband?



I want to elaborate a bit on this too, if it's not DSL/Cable and is a mobile broadband connection (like a 3G/4G dongle) there isn't much that can be done to fix it due to the time it takes to relay the information between radio masts and your device, i've tethered through a mobile connection a few times and even with good signal the ping is horrendous.

If it's DSL/Cable then maybe look to see whether there are any other network intensive programs running (download clients, streaming videos/music) at the same time and if so maybe close them and see whether that gives any improvement.


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## mastrdrver (Jul 31, 2013)

If it's anything like the issues I've gone through (twice now in the last 2 months) with my ATT DSL (though I'm not wireless), it's on ATT's network end. It cleared up after about two weeks but was frustrating none the less.


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## AngryMerchant (Aug 2, 2013)

It's DSL/ able, and it's consistent throughout the day, even when my desktop is the only device actively using the network.  It's been a little over 2 weeks at least, I'd say.


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## Mussels (Aug 2, 2013)

AngryMerchant said:


> It's DSL/ able, and it's consistent throughout the day, even when my desktop is the only device actively using the network.  It's been a little over 2 weeks at least, I'd say.



during a period its playing up, turn off every other device connected to it (wired and wireless).

plug in one device, and do speed/ping tests. if the proble goes away, its one of the devices.


most common thing i see is people fail to realise that a single upload (torrents, photos to facebook, etc) will choke out their entire internet connection for all users. an iphone set to sync its photos to the cloud can cause intermittent craziness for DSL users, for example.


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## AngryMerchant (Aug 3, 2013)

I've tried it before and after disconnecting all the devices I've found.  The pingtest is about 58ms both times.


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## Mussels (Aug 3, 2013)

AngryMerchant said:


> I've tried it before and after disconnecting all the devices I've found.  The pingtest is about 58ms both times.



thats a completely normal ping?


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## Frick (Aug 3, 2013)

It's not excellent if you're on fiber, but it's totally acceptable. Especially for DSL. Even up to 100 isn't all that bad.


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## AngryMerchant (Aug 3, 2013)

Even in Chicago servers, I'm getting over 60 ping, though.  It simply doesn't go any lower. It's not as though this network was set up just recently, it's always been fine.  I don't know what to hope for other than that this is AT&T's fault and it sorts itself out soon.


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## Mussels (Aug 3, 2013)

AngryMerchant said:


> Even in Chicago servers, I'm getting over 60 ping, though.  It simply doesn't go any lower. It's not as though this network was set up just recently, it's always been fine.  I don't know what to hope for other than that this is AT&T's fault and it sorts itself out soon.



that still sounds completely normal to me.


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## mastrdrver (Aug 3, 2013)

No that's way to high I think. Though I have a hard line, I think it's ATT network problem. When mine was whack, my best pings were in the mid 50s when the should have been in the mid 20s.

After a little less then two weeks, the problem magically disappeared for no reason. Just suddenly I had normal pings again. About a month or so later, it happened again for about a week.

I'm in KS and did some searching for the IP where my ping jumped. Found some website that put it in the middle of some field north of Wichita. Figured some squirrel may have packed a dish full of acorns or something.

If it's like mine, you got close to the correct down speeds and your up speed was almost normal, but the ping made it feel like you were on dial up when trying to be on the Internet because of the lost packets.


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## Frick (Aug 3, 2013)

Ok, 50 as opposed to 20ms is NOTHING on the internet. Latency varies by design, it's in the nature of such a network. When you see it bumping up to several hundred ms, then we have something to talk about. And anything under several thousand ms will not cause lost packets. That is a different issue ENTIRELY.

@mastdrver: They probably did some work so the traffic got routed elsewhere. Again, this is in the distributed nature of the internet, it's how it works.

There is ZERO reason to bitch about that kind of latency.

EDIT: Ok I just read the thread again, and you really have to measure properly. Do what mussels said (ping -t, or -n number if it's consistent). Look for a latency of several hundred, if not a couple of thousand. If you get normal latency (<100) and still get packet losses, then there is a problem somewhere, and it's not latency and you have to contact the ISP (if it's not the router/modem or something on your own network).


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## Ikaruga (Aug 3, 2013)

AngryMerchant said:


> I've tried it before and after disconnecting all the devices I've found.  The pingtest is about 58ms both times.



50-60 ping in tf2 is totally playable, you have to be in some serious high skilled games where latency will start to matter that much, hell I even take 60-120 ping games in Quake which has an acient netcode and which is way more sensitive to latency differences.... 60ms in source games are a piece of cake tbh.
But you can try the following things,

*1,* Make sure (with speedtest.net) that you are not bandwidth starved or capped (but irrc there is no bandwidth cap at AT&T, they just "simply" charge you more if you exceed 150GB/month)

*2,* If you are using wireless connection with a noname router, forget it and get an UTP cable or buy a decent router.

*3,* If you have to stay with wireless, make sure you are using a channel which is the least populated there (even if you see them clean do speedtest.net and pingtest.net with every channel what looks promising, and see which one is the best for you)

*4,* find out the desired server's IP address in tf2's server browser and do the following:

[_/a_] download WinMTR
[_/b_] enter the IP into the host box and hit Start
[_/c_] let it run for 15-20 minutes at the time when you are usually play the most (or you can also let it run for several hours if it's ok with you, the more is the better)

*5,* Copy paste the result here (you can black out the IPs in the first 1-3 hops (lines) if you are sensitive about your own IP)


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## Mussels (Aug 3, 2013)

ok i'm going to hazard some guesses based on a similar experience i've had in the past with a client:


you have DSL (technically, ADSL2+).

you had line issues and a complaint was sent in, a tech came out, fiddled with things and solved the problem - then left. you noticed internet was more stable but the speeds were lower and ping was slightly higher.

odds are, he changed your ADSL2+ down to standard ADSL2, either in your router or at the exchange end of things.

either way, for dsl getting 30-60 ping is 100% normal. hell, as long as its STEADY (not changing) its considered normal.


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## mastrdrver (Aug 4, 2013)

Frick said:


> O@mastdrver: They probably did some work so the traffic got routed elsewhere. Again, this is in the distributed nature of the internet, it's how it works.



You would end up getting different ips on a ping test would you not?

If yes, then I did not get rerouted as the ips stayed the same.


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## Mussels (Aug 4, 2013)

mastrdrver said:


> You would end up getting different ips on a ping test would you not?
> 
> If yes, then I did not get rerouted as the ips stayed the same.



no, the route between you and the destination changed. use the car analogy - same start, same finish, different road.


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## Frick (Aug 4, 2013)

To see the path to servers you have to use traceroute (tracert in Windows).

EDIT: Depending on the network, the path to close servers will probably not change unless there's a problem somewhere (or REALLY congested traffic). In fact, a lot of traffic is fairly "static". At least where I live. Here's two traceroutes from me (northern Sweden) to TPU, done about two minutes between:


```
1     2 ms     1 ms     2 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  gw-n3.piteenergi.ias.bredband.telia.com [90.22x.xxx.x]
  3     2 ms     1 ms     2 ms  217.xxx.73.117
  4     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  217.xxx.73.113
  5    11 ms     1 ms     1 ms  217-xxx-71-133.link.pite.com [217.17.71.133]
  6     1 ms     3 ms     1 ms  217-xxx-71-130.link.pite.com [217.17.71.130]
  7     3 ms     2 ms     2 ms  194.237.174.129
  8    20 ms    18 ms    18 ms  s-b2-link.telia.net [213.155.134.55]
  9    19 ms    18 ms    19 ms  s-akix-i1-link.telia.net [80.91.247.111]
 10    21 ms    19 ms    19 ms  te8-3-10G.ar2.ARN3.gblx.net [64.208.110.41]
 11   134 ms   134 ms   135 ms  Internap-Chicago.TenGigabitEthernet2-4.ar5.CHI1.gblx.net [208.48.24.186]
 12   132 ms   142 ms   168 ms  border5.po1-bbnet1.chg.pnap.net [64.94.32.10]
 13   137 ms   137 ms   137 ms  futurehost-5.border5.chg.pnap.net [64.74.96.62]

 14   132 ms   133 ms   132 ms  www.techpowerup.com [173.249.152.206]
```

The first is to my router. The first 6 is within my city (pop 20 000, not a lot will change there). By 8 it's in the UK, 9 is in Norway (dunno why it went to the UK first, probably faster that way), 10 takes it to the US. I got this by using geobytes.com btw. The first US hop is in Utah, then it goes to Michigan (presumably to buy crack and hookers), then to New York, back to Michigan (it forgot the illegal guns), then to Maryland. Here's the second traceroute:


```
1     1 ms     1 ms   <10 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  gw-n3.piteenergi.ias.bredband.telia.com [90.22x.xxx.x]
  3     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  217.xxx.73.117
  4     2 ms     1 ms     1 ms  217.xxx.73.113
  5     4 ms     1 ms     1 ms  217-xxx-71-133.link.pite.com [217.17.71.133]
  6     1 ms     1 ms     3 ms  217-xxx-71-130.link.pite.com [217.17.71.130]
  7     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  194.237.174.129
  8    18 ms    20 ms    18 ms  s-b2-link.telia.net [213.155.134.55]
  9    19 ms    24 ms    19 ms  s-akix-i1-link.telia.net [80.91.247.111]
 10    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  te8-3-10G.ar2.ARN3.gblx.net [64.208.110.41]
 11   134 ms   134 ms   134 ms  Internap-Chicago.TenGigabitEthernet2-4.ar5.CHI1.gblx.net [208.48.24.186]
 12   151 ms   135 ms   134 ms  border5.po2-bbnet2.chg.pnap.net [64.94.32.74]
 13   137 ms   137 ms   137 ms  futurehost-5.border5.chg.pnap.net [64.74.96.62]

 14   132 ms   132 ms   132 ms  www.techpowerup.com [173.249.152.206]
```

It's largely the same, but a different route in NY. It's a fun tool to use.


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## AsRock (Aug 4, 2013)

Frick said:


> To see the path to servers you have to use traceroute (tracert in Windows).
> 
> EDIT: Depending on the network, the path to close servers will probably not change unless there's a problem somewhere (or REALLY congested traffic). In fact, a lot of traffic is fairly "static". At least where I live. Here's two traceroutes from me (northern Sweden) to TPU, done about two minutes between:
> 
> ...



Not sure if they still do it but a bank had a offer over there to open a account with them and you get a free gun LMAO.

And i still like 3Dtraceroute although pretty much the same thing, although not having any commands to remember and it will constantly ping which some times shows a dodgy server over time.
http://www.d3tr.de/

60-80 ping aint bad in the 1st place.  Maybe they changed were there servers are located due to costs or some thing if your on about the same servers each time.


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## mastrdrver (Aug 4, 2013)

Mussels said:


> no, the route between you and the destination changed. use the car analogy - same start, same finish, different road.



Yes I did a before and after just to see. The ping would lag out or rocket high right before it left the ATT network. When I no longer had ping problems, same ips but they no longer lagged out of had huge jumps.


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## remixedcat (Aug 4, 2013)

I had 600 at best when I had comcast in Nashville!!!


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## AngryMerchant (Aug 6, 2013)

To clear it up: It doesn't really matter what is "technically" playable.  I've played more than enough multiplayer games, especially TF2, to feel the difference between 20 ping and 60 ping, and it does bother me.  I don't live far from Chicago at all, my ping was as low as 10 on Chicago servers.  Not 60.  And I've gone to the server browser and filtered servers, there are none under 50 for me anymore.  I'm not sure what posts to respond to, so I'll start with this one:



Mussels said:


> ok i'm going to hazard some guesses based on a similar experience i've had in the past with a client:
> 
> you have DSL (technically, ADSL2+).
> 
> ...



It's not 30-60, it's 60-80, and regularly spikes over 100.  If I can even manage to get into the router (I know it isn't complicated, but I don't have the password), what would I be looking for, if there's anything that can be done at all?  

Something else: Just prior to the ping increase, game consoles stopped being able to connect.  Smartphones worked, but I couldn't get a 3DS or PS3 to connect to the router.  Presumably this had something to do with wireless N or G, but it was the first indication that something had changed with the wireless network.


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## Ikaruga (Aug 6, 2013)

Perhaps the router got an unwanted visitor or reset itself and the new default wireless setting is not the best for gaming. Try the default password (each manufacturer has one which is something you can Google), or reset the whole router again to the factory default settings if it's your router, and if you are sure you can set it up again (there is a reset button or hole on the back somewhere). Don't worry it's really easy. Download the manual of the router and read it, but I can also give you more detailed and specific help if you can tell the exact model number of you modem (like the product number). But make sure you don't reset the router before you know the password (default one) and before you have the manual downloaded or the book in hand)

*ps.:* and tracert or WinMTR result would still help to determine where is the problem (tracert is fine, I only recommended WInMTR, because it's more user friendly)


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## drdeathx (Aug 6, 2013)

AngryMerchant said:


> To clear it up: It doesn't really matter what is "technically" playable.  I've played more than enough multiplayer games, especially TF2, to feel the difference between 20 ping and 60 ping, and it does bother me.  I don't live far from Chicago at all, my ping was as low as 10 on Chicago servers.  Not 60.  And I've gone to the server browser and filtered servers, there are none under 50 for me anymore.  I'm not sure what posts to respond to, so I'll start with this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Your ping probably sucks due to the routing from your ISP.


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## AngryMerchant (Aug 11, 2013)

I figured I'd have to either reset the router or log in.  I'll just have to see what happens.


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## Seany1212 (Aug 15, 2013)

AngryMerchant said:


> To clear it up: It doesn't really matter what is "technically" playable.  I've played more than enough multiplayer games, especially TF2, to feel the difference between 20 ping and 60 ping, and it does bother me.  I don't live far from Chicago at all, my ping was as low as 10 on Chicago servers.  Not 60.  And I've gone to the server browser and filtered servers, there are none under 50 for me anymore.



I highly doubt you're able to notice the difference between 2/100th of a second and 6/100th of a second from a human response point of view, as Mussels said 60-80 ping is not a bad ping rate, but it also comes down to how fast your connection speed is supposed to be.



AngryMerchant said:


> Something else: Just prior to the ping increase, game consoles stopped being able to connect.  Smartphones worked, but I couldn't get a 3DS or PS3 to connect to the router.  Presumably this had something to do with wireless N or G, but it was the first indication that something had changed with the wireless network.



It also doesn't help that you're using a wireless connection, some older devices aren't able to detect the 802.11n frequency or are problematic with it, tried changing the channel it's on? tried switching back to 802.11g? could possibly be background interference, have you tried using a wired connection to the router?



AngryMerchant said:


> If I can even manage to get into the router (I know it isn't complicated, but I don't have the password), what would I be looking for, if there's anything that can be done at all?



It depends on the make of the router, Netgears for instant have a default username: admin and password: password, but then it depends if the ISP has made their own adjustments, usually they'll put the password on a sticker at the bottom of the router.


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## Ikaruga (Aug 15, 2013)

Seany1212 said:


> I highly doubt you're able to notice the difference between 2/100th of a second and 6/100th of a second from a human response point of view, as Mussels said 60-80 ping is not a bad ping rate, but it also comes down to how fast your connection speed is supposed to be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you read it back, several of us continuously offered our help and repeatedly asked for a simple tracert result to determine where things might went wrong, yet, he just kept replying with questions, and that was pretty much all what he did... not sure it's worth your time tbh, but good luck


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