# Replace thermal paste on a notebook: is it necessary ?



## Max(IT) (May 17, 2020)

After a few months of different settings, thanks to the latest beta of ThrottleStop I found the best solution to keep my Dell G7 in an acceptable range of temperatures while preserving performance.
With a Speed Shift EPP of 64 and setting the PROCHOT at 85° C, my CPU keep a frequency of 3.6/3.8 Ghz while gaming and temperature never goes above 86° as a spike, hanging between 83-85° all the time. 
All of the above with a little undervolting of -100 mV.

Now I bought also a new, more efficient thermal compound by Thermal Grizzly.
I did it several times on a desktop, in the last 30 years of experience, but never on a laptop, and I know some risks are involved.
But the question is: does it worth it ?
How many degrees ° I’m going to gain from thermal paste replacement in your experience ?

Thank you


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## xande (May 17, 2020)

I have been thinking about repasting my laptop, however your temps are definitely fine. As long as you aren't in the high 90s the temperatures shouldn't bee too much of a problem. At this point, it's a personal choice that you can make based on how comfortable you are repasting and the risk/reward of the repasting. I would definitely look around on the internet and see if anyone has uploaded videos to YouTube or something that you can use as a guide.


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## Max(IT) (May 17, 2020)

xande said:


> I have been thinking about repasting my laptop, however your temps are definitely fine. As long as you aren't in the high 90s the temperatures shouldn't bee too much of a problem. At this point, it's a personal choice that you can make based on how comfortable you are repasting and the risk/reward of the repasting. I would definitely look around on the internet and see if anyone has uploaded videos to YouTube or something that you can use as a guide.


My temperatures are fine because of the use of Throttlestop, otherwise there weren't.
I don't know how many degrees I am going to gain with a repaste.


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## tabascosauz (May 17, 2020)

Max(IT) said:


> After a few months of different settings, thanks to the latest beta of ThrottleStop I found the best solution to keep my Dell G7 in an acceptable range of temperatures while preserving performance.
> With a Speed Shift EPP of 64 and setting the PROCHOT at 85° C, my CPU keep a frequency of 3.6/3.8 Ghz while gaming and temperature never goes above 86° as a spike, hanging between 83-85° all the time.
> All of the above with a little undervolting of -100 mV.
> 
> ...



Is this Kryonaut we're talking about? Of course there are risks. Only you can decide whether or not to take them.

From what you're describing, you have already solved your thermal issues (not sure why you chose to set 85 PROCHOT though, as long as it doesn't go to 95C where a thernal event is triggered, it'll run fine). Repasting even with Kryonaut doesn't guarantee any improvement. It's not uncommon to repaste a laptop that has no problems, only to find the temperatures the same or even worse.

Repasting should only be a last resort if you can't bring temperatures under control through software power limits, turbo limits and undervolting.


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## xande (May 17, 2020)

"If it aint broke, don't fix it"


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## Max(IT) (May 18, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Is this Kryonaut we're talking about? Of course there are risks. Only you can decide whether or not to take them.
> 
> From what you're describing, you have already solved your thermal issues (not sure why you chose to set 85 PROCHOT though, as long as it doesn't go to 95C where a thernal event is triggered, it'll run fine). Repasting even with Kryonaut doesn't guarantee any improvement. It's not uncommon to repaste a laptop that has no problems, only to find the temperatures the same or even worse.
> 
> Repasting should only be a last resort if you can't bring temperatures under control through software power limits, turbo limits and undervolting.


Yes, I'm talking Kryonaut.

I chose 85°C because I don't like the CPU to constantly run around 90°C while gaming. Do you really think it is fine to run at 90/93° for hours almost every day ?
Using PROCHOT of 85°C my CPU start throttling a little to keep 85°, keeping 3.5/3.8 Ghz all the time (which is better than most laptops).

This is the Cinebench R20 result with that setting:

I think it is better than most of the i7-9750H (non overclocked) out there.


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## xande (May 18, 2020)

Intel chips are made to withstand temperatures up to  100°C. Most manufacturers drop that limit a few degrees to 97ish, but you probably shouldn't be limiting it to 85°C. At that level you're basically throttling the computer on your own, something that is bad unless you are using the computer in your lap and it is uncomfortably hot. In any other scenario, you probably shouldn't be setting that limit as your processor is perfectly happy to be in the 90s. Depending on your chip (and the silicon lottery), your chip should hold up at that temperature.


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## unclewebb (May 18, 2020)

Max(IT) said:


> Do you really think it is fine to run at 90/93° for hours almost every day?


Intel must think these temperatures are OK. That is why they have been setting the thermal throttling temperature to 100°C for the vast majority of their CPUs built during the last 10+ years. Intel went as high as 105°C for their 3rd Gen Core i CPUs. Since then, they have settled on a nice even temperature of 100°C for both desktop and mobile CPUs.

Intel is not in business to lose money. If these temperatures that make you or I feel uncomfortable were really that bad in terms of warranty claims, Intel would have decreased the thermal throttling temperature years ago.

I have read Intel documents that encourage OEMs to create devices that run hot. Intel thinks most customers would prefer a quiet device that runs hot compared to a noisy device that runs cool. Apple must have read that document. The reason Intel started installing individual temperature sensors on the hottest spots on the core was so that they could reliably run their CPUs at a hotter temperature. This gave them more thermal head room so they could safely run as fast as possible. Old school throttling based on the socket temperature was limiting maximum performance. Modern laptops that run with peak core temperatures over 90°C is the new normal.

@Max(IT) - It is not necessary but you can use ThrottleStop to throttle your CPU at whatever temperature you like. All laptops with Intel CPUs use power limit throttling. Whether a CPU is throttled because it has reached a power limit or a thermal limit makes no difference. Throttling is throttling. In either case, the CPU will slow down just enough so it does not exceed that limit. The CPU multiplier (speed) is adjusted so rapidly that most users will not really notice a slight change in speed. A CPU can spend long periods of time operating 100% reliably as it bounces off the thermal throttle limit without hurting anything. As long as your CPU is stable, you can run it however you like.


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## Max(IT) (May 18, 2020)

xande said:


> Intel chips are made to withstand temperatures up to  100°C. Most manufacturers drop that limit a few degrees to 97ish, but you probably shouldn't be limiting it to 85°C. At that level you're basically throttling the computer on your own, something that is bad unless you are using the computer in your lap and it is uncomfortably hot. In any other scenario, you probably shouldn't be setting that limit as your processor is perfectly happy to be in the 90s. Depending on your chip (and the silicon lottery), your chip should hold up at that temperature.



Well, as you can see on Cinebench result above, I'm not limiting my CPU at all (that result is far better than most i7-9750H) : at 85° it keeps 3.5/3.9 Ghz all cores, which is great.
I'm "preserving" it, probably in a too much conservative way.



unclewebb said:


> Intel must think these temperatures are OK. That is why they have been setting the thermal throttling temperature to 100°C for the vast majority of their CPUs built during the last 10+ years. Intel went as high as 105°C for their 3rd Gen Core i CPUs. Since then, they have settled on a nice even temperature of 100°C for both desktop and mobile CPUs.
> 
> Intel is not in business to lose money. If these temperatures that make you or I feel uncomfortable were really that bad in terms of warranty claims, Intel would have decreased the thermal throttling temperature years ago.
> 
> I have read Intel documents that encourage OEMs to create devices that run hot. Intel thinks most customers would prefer a quiet device that runs hot compared to a noisy device that runs cool. Apple must have read that document. The reason Intel started installing individual temperature sensors on the hottest spots on the core was so that they could reliably run their CPUs at a hotter temperature. This gave them more thermal head room so they could safely run as fast as possible. Old school throttling based on the socket temperature was limiting maximum performance. Modern laptops that run with peak core temperatures over 90°C is the new normal.



Well, Intel cares about warranty for 12 to 24 months at best.
People are keeping laptops for 3/5 years usually, so the two time frames are quite different.



> @Max(IT) - It is not necessary but you can use ThrottleStop to throttle your CPU at whatever temperature you like. All laptops with Intel CPUs use power limit throttling. Whether a CPU is throttled because it has reached a power limit or a thermal limit makes no difference. Throttling is throttling. In either case, the CPU will slow down just enough so it does not exceed that limit. The CPU multiplier (speed) is adjusted so rapidly that most users will not really notice a slight change in speed. A CPU can spend long periods of time operating 100% reliably as it bounces off the thermal throttle limit without hurting anything. As long as your CPU is stable, you can run it however you like.



In the specific case of Dell G7, Dell set TDP at 90W, so basically you are NEVER going to hit that. The only throttling you are reaching is thermal, at 100°C. That's why I chose to reduce that limit.


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## John Naylor (May 19, 2020)

Every laptop we've had in the last 16+ years has been custom built, and survived both RoG Real Bench and Furmark ... and costs less the Dell Aleinware or other Gaming Laptops.  They have stepped away from using desktop parts in recent years , no need to with the gap between desktop having been diminished ... Dozens of Clevo custom shop around the US and Canada. ... elsewhere availability can be spotty.

My lappie is now 7 years old ... and still never breaks 75C.  Sometimes, if i see it creep up Fn-1 combo sets fans at 00% .  If ya wanna save money, ease some fears and work inside a laptop where everything easiiy pops in and out, consider a custom built  ... it's also noce getting tech Support 2 years down the line from the same tech you spoke with asking questioins about it post arrival and also the same guy who heped ya pick ya components

But the TIM thing is never an issue ...








						Sager NP8378F2-S / Clevo PB71DF2-G - LPCDIGITAL
					






					lpc-digital.com
				




Standard Thermal Compound
IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU  +$35.00
*Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU   *+$45.00


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## Jetster (May 19, 2020)

Not worth it, there is always a risk of breaking somting depending on your skill and the manufacture design. You could end up on here next week asking how to fix it


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## Max(IT) (May 19, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> Every laptop we've had in the last 16+ years has been custom built, and survived both RoG Real Bench and Furmark ... and costs less the Dell Aleinware or other Gaming Laptops.  They have stepped away from using desktop parts in recent years , no need to with the gap between desktop having been diminished ... Dozens of Clevo custom shop around the US and Canada. ... elsewhere availability can be spotty.
> 
> My lappie is now 7 years old ... and still never breaks 75C.  Sometimes, if i see it creep up Fn-1 combo sets fans at 00% .  If ya wanna save money, ease some fears and work inside a laptop where everything easiiy pops in and out, consider a custom built  ... it's also noce getting tech Support 2 years down the line from the same tech you spoke with asking questioins about it post arrival and also the same guy who heped ya pick ya components
> 
> ...


Well, the idea of a custom built notebook is fascinating and I will surely consider it in a couple of years, when I will start looking for a new laptop. Unfortunately here in Europe the offer is not so widely available, I think. I saw something similar from Santech (they have also one model using desktop parts).


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## Assimilator (May 19, 2020)

Read my signature.


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## Vayra86 (May 19, 2020)

Check my sig too

Also, well played @Assimilator maybe we can start a movement


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## Max(IT) (May 19, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Read my signature.


Well, I am doing proper research here, asking for your opinion.


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## Assimilator (May 19, 2020)

Max(IT) said:


> Well, I am doing proper research here, asking for your opinion.



And my answer is going to be the same as it will always be: "it depends".

It depends on whether your laptop manufacturer decided to use good thermal paste or cheap thermal paste.
It depends on whether the tech or machine that applied the original thermal paste at the factory did a good job or not.
It depends on how old your machine (and therefore the thermal paste) is.
It depends on whether your CPU is a good or bad bin.
It depends on whether you're willing to possibly void your warranty.
It depends on whether you're willing to possibly damage your laptop.
It depends on how comfortable you are with the internals of laptops (very fiddly, different across all manufacturers and models, completely unlike a PC).
It depends on a whole handful of other factors.

My personal opinion, based on what I know from experience (primarily of others), is the same as the others in this thread: push PROCHOT up to 90 degrees, and don't bother with repasting. Your laptop model is trying to fit rather powerful hardware into a rather small space, there is going to be a tradeoff somewhere and heat is it. No amount of thermal paste is going to alter basic physics.


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## nguyen (May 19, 2020)

Might as well go for thermal grizzly Conductonaut, as Kryonaut will dried out pretty quickly under high temperature (80C and above).
Oh wait if the contact baseplate for the CPU and GPU inside the laptop is not nickel plated then don't do Conductonaut either.

So short answer is don't do anything, they are not worth it


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## xtreemchaos (May 19, 2020)

if i buy a 2/h  gaming lappy the first thing i do is open it up dust it out reapply paste just for peice of mind if its a new lappy i do it after the first year unless its overheating then id prob try undervolting first, i see 90c+ as overheating id be happy with anything under.


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