# Throttlestop PL 2 Yellow on Core



## worldismine (Mar 22, 2020)

Hello All,

I'm new to undervolting, but I have been watching a lot of videos and reading posts. I currently can run Cinebench 20 without any limits and scores 3k+ consistently. However, when I open a game such as Borderlands 3, I see the limits turn yellow for a millisecond and I cannot seem to figure out why. I don't think it ever goes red? Should I be concerned? Please see log and view screenshots for settings.

Computer Specs:








						Intel Core i7 8750H @ 3889.51 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[6mruku] Validated Dump by DESKTOP-C6L47LG (2020-03-22 07:40:59) - MB: Clevo PB70EF-G - RAM: 32768 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				




Thank you in advance!


----------



## unclewebb (Mar 22, 2020)

worldismine said:


> Should I be concerned?


I do not think so.  Some of the limit reason indicators within the CPU can be hyper sensitive.  An 8750H that can run the full 39.00 multiplier during an entire Cinebench R20 test without any sort of throttling is excellent.  Your log file confirms that the PL2 indicator is being triggered at random intervals.  No idea why this only flashes to yellow during games.

PL2 refers to the short term power limit which you have set to 90 Watts.  Power consumption in the log file is only showing 30 Watts so there is no logical reason why PL2 is being triggered.  ThrottleStop is reading this info directly from the CPU.  It appears to be some random bug somewhere, likely at the CPU level.

Your temperatures are excellent so for a test, you could try setting both the long and short power limits to 256.  This used to be some sort of magic number.

After that test, if PL2 is still randomly triggering, try checking the PP0 Power Limit and set that to 256 as well.  If nothing works, go back to your original settings.

The good news is that this does not appear to be causing any significant drops in CPU performance.  Just some random blips, perhaps as you say, only for a millisecond or two.  Good work on the rest of your settings.  I can tell you have been doing your homework and have watched a TS video or two.   

I was going to ask you what laptop do you have.  My first thought was, it must not be a Dell because it is not overheating or throttling.  Your CPU-Z validation confirmed my suspicion.  It is a big Clevo with proper cooling.  It was specifically made to handle a 6 core 8750H.


----------



## worldismine (Mar 22, 2020)

Hi Unclewebb,

Thanks for the reply. Most of the posts that I read were from you answering questions. I searched multiple threads to get the "best settings" then ran Cinebench 20 to test. I started off with the BobofAllTrade Starter Kit with 125mv on cache and core, but I kept hitting the limit in Cinebench. I saw one of the post recommending a bigger undervolt like 250mv on core and I tried that. This worked like a charm and then I started playing with the cache. Increasing it past 130mv gets worse so I'm sticking to 130mv on cache. 

Regarding the laptop, it's a Powerspec 1720 (Microcenter Brand) which is a rebranded Clevo PB70EF-G. It was easily getting 90C during tests, but I took the thing apart and repasted with Kryonaut. I also picked up a cooling pad which surprising did improve the cooling under heavy game load like Monster Hunter World: Iceborne (The snow really stresses out the CPU).

I will be setting the Long & Short Power Limit to 256 and try again. If that doesn't work, I will set the PP0 Powerlimt to 256 like you recommended. I'll let you know the results in a few.

Unclewebb,

I tried what you recommend and it looks like it's still behaving the same. I think it's a minor CPU glitch like you mentioned. I see the yellow warning, and I believe it never goes red. If I didn't look at the limit reasons, I couldn't even tell it was throttling during game play. 

I will go ahead and set it back to the previous value. I'm not 100% sure what turbo time limit is and I believe my default was at 48. Should I change it back to 48 or leave it as 28? I'm not confident in leaving a setting long term if I don't understand what it's doing.


----------



## unclewebb (Mar 22, 2020)

I did not really think that setting the power limits to 256 was going to solve your problem but it was the only thing I could think of.  Performance looks great overall as well as consistent so I would not lose too much sleep over this very minor glitch.  If you are curious, run a TS log file every month or two just to see if PL2 keeps randomly showing up in the log.

Intel recommends that the turbo time limit should be set to 28 seconds.  The way Intel CPUs work is that they can boost up to the short power limit (90 Watts) for 28 seconds and then after that, if they are still under significant load, the power limit will switch to the long term power limit (60 Watts) for the rest of the time.  If your core temperatures are OK and nothing else is interfering with these power limits, it will continue to run as high as 60 Watts indefinitely.

Your Cinebench screenshot shows that your CPU is fully loaded while maintaining the full 39.00 multiplier.  Package power is at 59.0 Watts while the Package CPU temperature is only at 74°C.  That confirms that your cooling solution is working great and is quite capable of handling a 60 Watt or greater CPU.  Razer enforces the 45 Watt Intel TDP limit on some of their laptops that use the 8750H.  This prevents ThrottleStop from letting the CPU go any higher than 45 Watts long term.  

You could safely bump your long term turbo power limit up from 60 Watts to 70 Watts.  Not really necessary considering your games are only reaching 30 Watts but you have lots of temperature headroom.  Allowing the CPU some more Watts if it ever needs them will not hurt anything.  You could also leave your power limits at 60 / 90 and bump up the turbo time limit which would allow your CPU to run at the higher 90 Watt limit for a longer period of time before being limited to 60 Watts.  

Easiest thing to do is just leave everything as is.  Your laptop is running great, it is not throttling or over heating.  Go play some games.  Most laptop owners would be envious of a performance oriented laptop that actually runs properly.  There are way too many half baked products on the market.

The only recommendation is to avoid any future BIOS updates.  Intel has released a microcode update that blocks CPU voltage control as well as turbo ratio limit adjustments.  This has already been rolled out to many HP and Dell laptops.  Your laptop would not be running nearly as well without the voltage tweaks that you are using on it.



worldismine said:


> a bigger undervolt like 250mv on core and I tried that. This worked like a charm


Thanks for confirming that a larger CPU core offset voltage really does work.  Not sure why Intel XTU prevents a user from adjusting their CPU core and cache voltages independently.


----------



## worldismine (Mar 23, 2020)

Thank you so much for you help! Have a good one, sir.


----------



## Akatsuki_Neil (May 20, 2020)

hello,

I have the same issue with my laptop when i run cinebench. i got the score 2261 and i have the same cpu as OP. I have the razer blade 15 rtx 2060. I have cpu core and cache both undervolted to -125.

is this considered normal or am i asking too much from the machine ?


----------



## unclewebb (May 20, 2020)

@Akatsuki_Neil - A properly running 8750H can score over 3000 in Cinebench R20. A score of 2261 is definitely not good. Razer likes to lock down some of their laptops so there might not be anything you can do about this.

A screenshot of a log file is OK but it would be a lot better if you attached the entire log file so I can scroll through it. In the ThrottleStop Options window turn on the Add Limit Reasons to Log File option.

You have lowered your turbo ratio limits. Did you do this because you have some heat issues? Slowing down your CPU will reduce your Cinebench scores.

Your power limit requests of 256 256 are likely being ignored. Some Razer laptops will set the long term turbo power limit to 45W internally and there is nothing you can do about it. When running Cinebench, are PL1 and PL2 lighting up in red? What is power consumption being reported at when this happens?


----------



## Akatsuki_Neil (May 20, 2020)

i did it initially to control heat but should i try setting it back to default ?

Yes pl1 and pl2 flashes during the cine bench and also edp other. Sometimes it fluctuates wither only pl1 and edp will flash or pl2 and edp or all three.


----------



## unclewebb (May 20, 2020)

When PL1 or PL2 is the reason for throttling, EDP under the RING column usually lights up red at the exact same time. It is the power limit that is the problem.

The log file tells all. As soon as your CPU goes up to full load, it immediately starts throttling. The first reason is the PL2 power limit. Power consumption is being limited to 45W when this happens.

After about 35 seconds, the turbo time limit expires and the CPU switches from the short term turbo power limit to the long term turbo power limit. The log file shows PL1 and power consumption has dropped to 35W.

The 8750H has a TDP rating of 45W. Even though your temperatures are fantastic, Razer has decided to lower the turbo power limit below the TDP rating. This causes throttling and reduces maximum performance. That is why your Cinebench R20 score is so low.

ThrottleStop has an option that can help some laptops get over this restriction. In the FIVR window, try using the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature. Before checking this box, you need to download, unzip and copy the RwDrv.sys file into your ThrottleStop folder. You can download this driver from Mega.









						MEGA
					

MEGA provides free cloud storage with convenient and powerful always-on privacy. Claim your free 20GB now




					mega.nz
				




After you install this driver, close and reopen the FIVR window. The Install button will be gone if you have installed this driver correctly. Check the Disable and Lock box and press OK.

Now you are ready to try some more testing. This trick only works on some laptops from some manufacturers.

Your temps look great so I would set the CPU back to its default turbo ratios. (41, 41, 40, 40, 39, 39)


----------



## Akatsuki_Neil (May 20, 2020)

unclewebb, 

first of all thank you for the insights and time to respond to my query. i will try the steps that you provided.
have a good day and stay healthy


----------



## Akatsuki_Neil (Jun 14, 2020)

hello i have a question. My pkg power randomly jumps from 1.0 w to 14.o w. is there a way to fix this please ?


----------



## unclewebb (Jun 15, 2020)

@Akatsuki_Neil - An 8750H can consume 80W at full load. It does not take a lot of load to vary from 1W to 14W. That is normal. Look into reducing any background tasks to try to reduce this.


----------



## Akatsuki_Neil (Jun 15, 2020)

okay and also is there anyway to have a deeper c state level ? my blade is locked at c10 but only uses c2 and c3


----------



## n00Be (Jun 18, 2020)

Hi folks, 
I don't mean to usurp this thread but I'm reading up on all this and many other posts about Throttlestop. GREAT program. I never been into this undervolting stuff and used XTU originally on my Acer Nitro 5 with i5-8300H (I realise it wasn't for my CPU). Had some issues and had to uninstall app, update my BIOS, and thankfully use Throttlestop to fix the issue I had with XTU.

Reading this thread I downloaded and ran cinebench (not sure if a 2069 is a good score for an i5-8300H...) but I've also noticed that in Throttlestop it will show yellow PL1 & PL2 reasons under CORE. THey appear to show up at random - like at the very start (startup) or I notice them at the end when shutting down. More constant is the yellow EDP Other under the RING column. That is always there and I can clear it and it comes right back. Interesting that when I clear these reasons and run Cinebench, the PL1/2 yellow warnings do not appear. The EDP Other shows up only at the very end under RING.

I'm starting to look more into Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits - some very helpful info in this thread. Thanks. 

PS - I'm also somebody who has noticed a yellow BD Prochot reason show up randomly under CORE , yet temps never got anywhere near throttle limits nor was the PROCHOT 95C alarm triggered. From what I've read its a common glitch so I'm disregarding and keeping BD Prochot enabled. Still, confusing for someone trying to get into this stuff :S


----------



## unclewebb (Jun 18, 2020)

@n00Be - BD PROCHOT and PROCHOT are two different things. BD PROCHOT allows outside throttling signals to reach your CPU and cause throttling. PROCHOT throttling signals are always temperature related and are generated inside your CPU. Using ThrottleStop to disable BD PROCHOT will not prevent your CPU from throttling if it ever gets too hot.

EDP OTHER under the Ring column will always light up when one of the power limits triggers throttling. When you see PL1 or PL2 and EDP OTHER turn red at the exact same time, it is always the power limit, PL1 or PL2, that is causing the problem. I think EDP OTHER also lights up when THERMAL or BD PROCHOT lights up.

Best to run a ThrottleStop log file while testing. This allows you to keep a close eye on the CPU multiplier without having to watch for lights lighting up. Throttling can happen rapidly hundreds of times per second. The Limit Reasons are only sampled a couple of times a second. Red boxes are indicators of throttling in progress while the yellow boxes are just records of previous throttling. The throttling might be so slight that it does not significantly interfere with performance and is not really noticed. Some CPUs are kind of hyper sensitive and things will light up constantly in yellow. Be more concerned about things when the multi drops and things are glowing red continuously.

I like using Cinebench R20. Run it and keep an eye on the multiplier for any signs of throttling. With good cooling, you should be able to run this test at full speed.

Edit - Some of the 8th and 9th Gen CPUs are happy when the core is undervolted significantly more than the cache. I have heard that a ratio of 2:1 is OK. If the cache is OK at -100 mV then the core might still be stable at -200 mV. Cinebench is a great way to test this out.


----------



## n00Be (Jun 18, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> @n00Be - BD PROCHOT and PROCHOT are two different things. BD PROCHOT allows outside throttling signals to reach your CPU and cause throttling. PROCHOT throttling signals are always temperature related and are generated inside your CPU. Using ThrottleStop to disable BD PROCHOT will not prevent your CPU from throttling if it ever gets too hot.
> 
> EDP OTHER under the Ring column will always light up when one of the power limits triggers throttling. When you see PL1 or PL2 and EDP OTHER turn red at the exact same time, it is always the power limit, PL1 or PL2, that is causing the problem. I think EDP OTHER also lights up when THERMAL or BD PROCHOT lights up.
> 
> ...



Thank you for this. I will experiment offsetting the core & cache undervolts. Next thing on my list is the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits. I'm still getting my head around all the adjustable fields in Throttlestop. Little by little.

RE: log file - I ran one while running Cinebench 20. If I'm looking at it correctly I think its good. Basically from start to finish it read:
MULTI: 39.00
C0% 100.0
CKMOD 100.0
CHIPM 100.0
POWER 40.X-41.X 

A little confusing because i'm not sure what "power" represents... my turbo boost and turbo boost short power max settings (default) are 45.000 W. PP0 Current Limit is 128.
When I look at FIVR control it shows Turbo Ratio Limits as 40 MAX (under cores 1-3 it shows 40, under core #4 it shows 39)


----------



## unclewebb (Jun 18, 2020)

n00Be said:


> not sure what "power" represents


Power is how much power your CPU is consuming. If your CPU is only consuming 40W or 41W, it is running under the 45W turbo power limit. If a CPU is running under the turbo power limit and it is not thermal throttling, then it has no reason to run at anything less than full speed including full turbo boost.

Intel CPUs continuously adjust their maximum speed based on how many cores are active. When 1 to 3 cores are active, your CPU can use the 40 multiplier. When all 4 cores are active, your CPU is forced to slow down a little and can only use the 39 multiplier. If the MULTI column in the log file is showing 39.00 while fully loaded running Cinebench R20, your CPU is running at its full potential. These CPUs do not support overclocking so that is as good as it gets. Trying to adjust the CPU core offset voltage further might make your CPU run a little cooler but you cannot increase performance from how your laptop is running right now.

It takes good cooling and lots of tweaking to get maximum performance out of similar laptops with 6 core CPUs like the 8750H and 9750H. If you have 50% more cores (4 vs 6) then you will also have 50% more power consumption. Some laptops with 6 core CPUs have power limits that are not adjustable so the CPU is forced to throttle and slow down so it does not exceed the default 45W turbo power limit. 

Is it all starting to make sense? It took me a decade to write the program. Don't be surprised or feel bad if it takes you a few days or a week to learn the program.


----------



## n00Be (Jun 18, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> Power is how much power your CPU is consuming. If your CPU is only consuming 40W or 41W, it is running under the 45W turbo power limit. If a CPU is running under the turbo power limit and it is not thermal throttling, then it has no reason to run at anything less than full speed including full turbo boost.



Hmmm. So if my turbo boost limits are 45W yet machine isn't climbing above 42w max, does that mean there IS throttling occurring? Or are my settings off somewhere?
The -.150 undervolt couldn't be pulling that much from the turbo boost right. Could the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits option help? Am planning to test that route. 




unclewebb said:


> Is it all starting to make sense? It took me a decade to write the program. Don't be surprised or feel bad if it takes you a few days or a week to learn the program.



Starting to! XTU was cool to get into but it messed up my default settings. Throttlestop was overwhelming at fist but slowly starting to understand what each section does. One setting change at a time, test, etc. I actually like the info THrottlestop offers. Reminds me of data logging my car - being able to see what EVERY sensor is picking up is so insightful. And similar to a laptop, the PCM in my car can be so finicky; data interruptions midway through a log, false alarms (ever seen a knock sensor lol), even a faulty ground somewhere on the car can be a huge monkey wrench to troubleshoot).

Will start to watch that Power (Max Power) readout on THrottlestop. See if I can get it up to 45w max.
Thanks for all your help!


----------



## unclewebb (Jun 18, 2020)

n00Be said:


> my turbo boost limits are 45W yet machine isn't climbing above 42w max


That is a good thing. Your undervolt has reduced power consumption so your CPU can run at its full rated speed without any power limit throttling. For laptop owners, that is the holy grail.

Why do you want your CPU to consume more power and run hotter? Running at full speed while consuming less power is what dreams are made of.

At the moment, there is no reason to check the Disable and Lock option. You do not need this option. In ThrottleStop, only check options that you need. Many of the available options are for different CPUs or for different situations. You do not have to fix throttling problems if they do not exist on your laptop.


----------



## n00Be (Jun 18, 2020)

hey, again sorry to usurp or digress from OP... unclewebb what's you take on this:
when I first loaded INtel XTU on this laptop my default settings (at boot) for turbo and turbo short power max were 45.000 W (each). After several days playing with undervolts I opened up XTU and noticed that my turbo short power max (at boot) had changed to 56.250. If I tried to load the DEFAULT profile the short power max had been changed to 56.250. Intel forums support is not the greatest - was basically told "that's what you get for using XTU on a unsupported CPU! Uninstall XTU, reset BIOS, reinstall Windows 10" (and be happy). I read around in other forums and threads about similar experiences and there were a couple. Someone suggested that it could be a display glitch - that the _actual _default setting was in fact 45w but that XTU was simply incorrectly displaying a 56.250 figure.

Fast forward to THrottlestop. The first time I opened up (discovered!) TPL I wasn't surprised to see short power max showing 56.250. So I changed that value back to 45W.
ANY CHANCE Throttlestop was in fact set to 45 (despite reading 56.250) and by me changing the value to "45" I've inadvertently lowered it below default max???

Side question: what if I were to plug 56.250W back into the turbo boost short power max field??? Will the machine go beyond the 45W limit? (is that asking for a fire??)



unclewebb said:


> That is a good thing. Your undervolt has reduced power consumption so your CPU can run at its full rated speed without any power limit throttling. For laptop owners, that is the holy grail.
> 
> Why do you want your CPU to consume more power and run hotter? Running at full speed while consuming less power is what dreams are made of.
> 
> At the moment, there is no reason to check the Disable and Lock option. You do not need this option. In ThrottleStop, only check options that you need. Many of the available options are for different CPUs or for different situations. You do not have to fix throttling problems if they do not exist on your laptop.



WORD  Makes sense!

+ nevermidn the first ramble/question .


----------



## unclewebb (Jun 18, 2020)

Intel recommends that manufacturers set the short power limit 25% higher than the long turbo power limit. If long is 45W then 56.25W makes sense for the default short limit (45 + 25%).

When you first run ThrottleStop, if it does not find a previous ThrottleStop.INI config file, it will read the power limit values from the CPU and it will use whatever values the CPU was set to by the BIOS. ThrottleStop keeps things simple so it rounds off 56.25 to the nearest whole number, 56.

You can set these limits to whatever you like. Some of the 6 core CPUs have these limits set to 80W or 90W. If these are set to 45W or 56W, that is not going to hurt anything. 

XTU does have some bad habits like showing you things that are not true. Glad to see you moved on. When resuming from hibernate or stand by, it is always a guessing game whether XTU has restored your settings properly or not. The only way to be sure is to use another app to check up on what XTU is really doing. ThrottleStop does not have that problem.



n00Be said:


> Will the machine go beyond the 45W limit?


Not while running Cinebench. You have already shown that your CPU can run at full speed in that benchmark without having to go beyond 45W. You can set your turbo power limits to 100 or 1000 and your CPU is still going to run Cinebench at just under 45W. 

If you want to put a hurting on your CPU, try running Linpack Xtreme by @Regeneration 









						Linpack Xtreme Released
					

Linpack Xtreme is a console front-end with the latest build of Linpack (Intel Math Kernel Library Benchmarks 2018.3.011) developed and maintained by ngohq.com. Linpack is a benchmark and the most aggressive stress testing software available today. Best used to test stability of overclocked PCs...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




That should help get your power consumption well beyond 45W. It is a good stress testing tool. Keep the fire extinguisher handy.


----------



## n00Be (Jun 18, 2020)

Its funny how stress testing and benchmarking a computer is just like dyno racing for car guys... comparing RWHP figures and torque curves. It's often a different reality or result when they actually run it on the street or strip (your new tune could put down more max HP at the wheels but actually run slower in the quarter).

Thanks for the link after I'm a bit more educated (and get a laptop cooling pad) I may see what abuse this acer can take.

once again thanks for your help. I feel bad how much info you've shared in just a day. You could charge consulting fees. I almost want to seek advice from others (for easy Q's) considering the amount of time you've shared. CHeers


----------



## Super-Mario (Jun 27, 2020)

@unclewebb - Newbie to TPU here! I had the same issue as OP and ended up reading the entire thread. Thank you for making TS, it's the nectar of the gods from where I sit.

10 years - wow, just wow! Again, thank you!

Quick Q - Settings > BD PROCHOT - to disable it, I leave it unchecked, correct?

The guide here: ThrottleStop Guide, doesn't explicitly state to check/uncheck this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## unclewebb (Jun 27, 2020)

Super-Mario said:


> 10 years


Time flies when you are having fun. It has been interesting to see how laptops and throttling schemes have progressed over time. Not easy creating a tool that supports Core 2 Duo to 10th Gen Core i and everything in between. ThrottleStop automatically changes what options are available depending on what CPU it detects.

To disable the BD PROCHOT signal path, leave that box unchecked.


----------



## Super-Mario (Jun 27, 2020)

@unclewebb ❤


----------



## LemonScent6 (Jul 3, 2020)

@unclewebb would I be able to get you to look at my settings for my Acer Nitro 5? (Intel i5-9300H) I know it's thermal throttling and I currently have it undervolted which has helped tremendously as I just purchased this laptop last week and it was peaking at 95 degrees while gaming.
I want to set it up right before I continue to play any further so any help would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 3, 2020)

LemonScent6 said:


> it was peaking at 95 degrees while gaming


Not sure what manufacturers are thinking but sky high temperatures are normal for modern gaming laptops. The 6 core laptops are worse.

In the Options window see if PROCHOT Offset is locked. If this is not locked, I would set this to 2 or 3 and then I would lock it. The Intel default is actually 0. Some manufacturers are reducing the thermal throttling temperature so they can try and pretend that their laptops are not running hot. Less complaints I guess. Intel specifies that any temperature under 100°C is a "safe operating temperature" so manufacturers and consumers need to worry less about temperatures.

Some people get better results by setting the CPU core voltage lower than the CPU cache voltage. These two voltages do not need to be set equally. Intel XTU forces these voltages to be in sync but you can adjust them independently in ThrottleStop. If the cache is stable at -125 mV, some CPUs will still be stable with the core offset as high as -200 mV. Use Cinebench R20 for testing purposes. This trick will help drop a few more degrees in some newer games.

Your log file shows some PL2 throttling when power consumption is only at 25W. This should not be happening. Make sure to check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature.

When EDP OTHER is lighting up red across all three domains, try increasing the PP0 Current Limit as well as the IccMax current limits. This can help.

I would not bother reducing the turbo ratio limits. I know your laptop runs hot and you know it runs hot and the manufacturer knows it runs hot so let it run hot and get as much performance out of it as you can. Your CPU is well designed and will take care of itself. ThrottleStop does not disable any of the CPU's safety features.

If you have an Nvidia GPU, turn on Nvidia GPU monitoring in the ThrottleStop Options window. This info will be added to the log file and will make it easier to see if there are any problems when gaming. Go play for 15 minutes, preferably longer so you have lots of data.


----------



## LemonScent6 (Jul 3, 2020)

@unclewebb Thank you so much for the info!!! I will make the necessary changes and upload the new logs and info once I get new benchmarks.
Even if I undervolt it then just slightly and not as aggressive @-0.125 and do like -0.085 or so then it can run a little cooler but still get to around 85 or so but I just feel 90 for me gives me anxiety and I’d rather it just get warm as a personal preference but it totally agree with you. I don’t know why these need to run that hot in the first place.


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 3, 2020)

LemonScent6 said:


> I don’t know why these need to run that hot in the first place.


Intel has been rocking 14nm technology since Broadwell Y was introduced 6 years ago. They keep increasing the CPU speed so they can compete with AMD. Doing this year after year with old technology means power consumption goes up and CPU temperatures are also going up and up.



LemonScent6 said:


> I just feel 90 for me gives me anxiety


If you think you have problems, imagine how the engineers at Intel are feeling right now. AMD continues to steal desktop enthusiasts away from Intel. Next up, AMD is well positioned to start going hard after Intel's mobile customers.

You can run your Intel CPU at any temperature that Intel says it can reliably run at. They have set the thermal throttling temperature to 100°C for the majority of their CPUs for over a decade. No worries for you. Lots of worries for them.


----------



## LemonScent6 (Jul 3, 2020)

@unclewebb I changed the settings as you recommended but I still have EDP OTHER across all three domains. I've also lowered the voltage across the board to let it run warmer than before as you said it would be fine for the machine to run a bit hotter. I'm not as worried now that you've given me this info. I also ran Cinebench 20 and did about 20 minutes of Overwatch on medium-low settings.


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 4, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> If the cache is stable at -125 mV, some CPUs will still be stable with the core offset as high as -200 mV.


That was my suggestion. If you are using -80 mV for the cache then the core also has to be set to at least -80 mV. The core needs to be set equal to the cache or it can be set to a bigger negative number compared to the cache.

-50 mV Core and -80 mV Cache = No Good
-80 mV Core and -80 mV Cache = OK
-150 mV Core and -100 mV Cache = Worth testing.
-200 mV Core and -125 mV Cache = My fav if stable.

When you are playing with voltages, do not use the Task Scheduler to auto start ThrottleStop. Turn that off or use the ThrottleStop feature, "OK, Do Not Save Voltages". This will prevent your computer from continuously crashing. If your voltage settings are not stable, they will be forgotten next time your start ThrottleStop. Once you are confident that your voltages are stable, then you can auto start ThrottleStop and set it to Save Voltages Immediately. Here is a Task Scheduler guide.






						TechnologyGuide
					

Thank you for visiting the TechnologyGuide network. Unfortunately, these forums are no longer active. We extend a heartfelt thank you to the entire community for their steadfast support—it is really you, our readers, that drove




					forum.notebookreview.com
				




Crank all of the IccMax values up sky high. Also increase the PP0 Current Limit to a nice round binary number like 256. These are just limits. Your CPU is not going to suddenly start flowing current like a raging river. It will be OK. I would also suggest clearing the BD PROCHOT box. If your CPU gets too hot, it will thermal throttle whether this box is checked or not.

Your Cinebench R20 score is a little on the light side. When testing and your CPU is loaded, what are you seeing? If PL1 or PL2 is red, what power consumption is ThrottleStop reporting when this happens? You have the turbo long power limit set to 60W in ThrottleStop. Some laptops will ignore this value and will force long term throttling to 45W which is the rated TDP for these CPUs. Nice manufacturers do not do stuff like this. Some leave the power limits unlocked which is a lot more productive when running Cinebench.

Edit - Just saw your log. Throttling at 45W (PL1) and there is no way beyond this.


----------



## LemonScent6 (Jul 4, 2020)

WOW what a difference! So I changed the core and the cache to both the 150 and the 200mV and they were both STABLE!!! No problems and my system didn't go past 77 deg. Ran Cinebench  after cranking everything up all the way like you suggested and got the best score on Cinebench yet. Please take a look at these changes/results for yourself and let me know if there's anything else that can be done.
While the computer was underload (took a couple screenshots mid benchmark) it highlighted red SOLID on PL1 which I suspect as you said the laptop restricted itself to only 45W. Mid load it didn't go past 45W at all but gave me the best benchmarks yet. Is this new Cinebench score considered on the better side for my processor?


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 4, 2020)

LemonScent6 said:


> WOW what a difference!


Beyond expectations! See what happens when you follow directions. 

The 9300H appreciates less voltage. Did you do some 1 Thread and 2 Thread TS Bench tests without any errors? With the cache at -125 mV, you might be able to take the core to -250 mV. I have heard that a 2:1 ratio is possible. Anything beyond that is ignored. Your temps are great. The only reason you might want to do this is to reduce power consumption. Your laptop has set a hard long term power limit at 45W. Anything you can do to reduce power consumption will help keep you under this limit which will allow your CPU to run a little faster.

On a similar laptop with good cooling and no hard power limits, instead of running Cinebench at just under 3300 MHz, this same CPU would be running at its full rated speed which is 4000 MHz. Next time you are laptop shopping, make sure to find one with unlocked power limits for a free 20% increase in performance. With a 45W power limit, it will be impossible for your laptop to equal the Cinebench performance of a fully unlocked 9300H laptop.

That's OK though. Most normal tasks like gaming do not fully stress the CPU so performance should be great.

Edit - When under volting the Intel GPU, you also need to under volt the iGPU, probably equally. If you have a Nvidia GPU, I would not bother with this. The Intel CPU is the important one. The Intel GPU does not make a big difference.

Edit - Your 1951 Cinebench score has moved you up to 3rd on the list for 9300H owners.





						Cinebench - R20 overclocking records @ HWBOT
					

Overclocking records




					hwbot.org


----------



## LemonScent6 (Jul 4, 2020)

@unclewebb exactly! I super appreciate all your help! You can never stop learning something and I’m always trying to improve things and try and find better ways for things to work and I’d rather hit up the expertise of someone who knows BEST so that way I can learn how to do it properly and not just cross my fingers that’s nothing is wrong.
I will try setting the core to -250 mV for that 2:1 ratio and see if it’s stable. Last night I tried overclocking my GPU with afterburner as I ran a userbenchmark and it stated it was in the 43 percentile and rated at low expectations for a GTX 1650. I can’t change the power limits at all with afterburner as they’re greyed out and I feel the manufacturer locked it from drawing anymore power out of the GPU but I feel I can get better performance out of the card then what it’s pushing currently.
Would I be able to attach the stuff for my GPU in this thread as well when I test the undervolting to -250 later today and you can have a look? Or would you rather me keep this relevant to the thread overall?


----------



## LemonScent6 (Jul 4, 2020)

@unclewebb I ran Cinebench with the core at -250 mV and it WENT UP AGAIN 3 points! WOOT WOOT!
I've attached all the specs and I leveled off the intel GPU at 0 as you said it doesn't affect much. I have my battery settings less than the performance and the gaming profiles, does that really matter or should I have it the same undervoltage across all 4 profiles and just have the speed step set accordingly?

Also if you want me to add the afterburner stuff I can do that as well.


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 4, 2020)

If your voltages are 100% stable then I would use them for all of your profiles. A Speed Shift EPP setting of between 80 and 128 is good for a battery profile.

Your latest log file shows an improvement in MHz. When fully loaded, there used to be PL2 throttling. Intel recommends that the short term turbo power limit be set approximately 20% to 25% higher than the long term limit. Your PL2 limit is set to somewhere around 54W or 55W internally. By reducing the voltage, you are staying under that limit so it can initially run at the full 4000 MHz. When PL1 kicks in, it used to drop down to 3300 MHz to get under the 45W limit. Now it can run at a little over 3700 MHz. Less power equals better efficiency. More performance while running at the same 45W.

It is also great to see that when running at 45W, all of your cores are under 70°C. That is a huge difference. You could increase your turbo ratios back to the default 41, 41, 40, 40. You have no more temperature issues.

When trying to get a few more Cinebench points, exit HWMonitor, use the ThrottleStop Stop Data feature and minimize ThrottleStop to the notification area. This will free up a few more CPU cycles for benchmarking. The other trick some people use is they use the Windows Task Manager to increase the priority of Cinebench.exe

Have fun gaming.


----------



## LemonScent6 (Jul 4, 2020)

So do you recommend then having the long term at 60 as it is and short term 75 or 80?


----------



## LemonScent6 (Jul 4, 2020)

@unclewebb Again, WOW! Went up to 1961 after your suggestion to minimize, stop data and close the monitor. Thank you so much for everything! I'm going to take this as a complete WIN and have some fun now that my laptop is running as optimal as it can!
If you have some time for me to pick your brain about the GPU I can start a separate thread for that, otherwise thank you for your help! I hope this will help other people with a system similar to mine as well.


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 4, 2020)

It does not matter. These ThrottleStop settings are being ignored. Your laptop uses it's own set of turbo power limits that are set to 45W and 55W. You cannot go beyond these limits. Leave the ThrottleStop limits at 60W and 60W. Anything higher than default will be ignored by the CPU.


----------



## Allen00 (Jul 4, 2020)

Hello!
I have an i7 7920HQ (MBP 15 2017, 3.1Ghz), I've been using a Throttlestop setup for months without any problem but since 1 week, after 10 minutes of playing (CoD Warzone and Forza Horizon 4), the fps drops terribly from 60 to 15 every time and never comes up again.

In that case, in Throttlestop I can see the Throttle point in the main screen light up but temps are good (around 75C with my old setup).

I had to limit the TB long power down to 13W to keep it cool (it's very low, but it worked since 1 week ago). For example, if I set 15W or more it goes up to 80C and beyond. I gave a try with screenshot TPL n2 without any success, it still dops after 10 minutes.

I'm no expert and I don't know if the parameters I set are good, what should I change? And why it drops the performance after 10 minutes out of the blue? I'm desperate I can't find any solution...

Thank you very much!


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 5, 2020)

Allen00 said:


> Hello!
> I have an i7 7920HQ (MBP 15 2017, 3.1Ghz)


You really should start your own thread if you have an issue, instead of tagging on to the end of someone else's thread.


----------



## dimmitsaras (Jul 5, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> Crank all of the IccMax values up sky high


Is this for just CPU core + cache?


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 5, 2020)

dimmitsaras said:


> Is this for just CPU core + cache?


Do some testing. If making an adjustment in ThrottleStop does not fix a specific problem you have or improve your CPU's performance then you do not need to do it.


----------



## Fazter (Sep 27, 2020)

@unclewebb sorry for bothering, but I have the same laptop (Acer Nitro 5) and spec as the above and I've done following the whole procedure, but why is my PROCHOT Offset has a lock icon? Also my timer resolution is set to 1 ms and I couldn't tell what causing this...


----------



## unclewebb (Sep 28, 2020)

Fazter said:


> why is my PROCHOT Offset has a lock icon?


Some laptops lock the PROCHOT Offset value in the BIOS. Either you locked this accidentally or the BIOS locked it. In ThrottleStop, clear the check mark beside the Lock PROCHOT Offset option, press OK, exit ThrottleStop and completely shutdown your computer. Hold the Shift key down on the keyboard when selecting the Windows Shut menu item. This is the best way to completely reset your CPU.

When you boot back up, if the Lock icon is visible in the Options window then it must be your BIOS that is setting the lock bit. That means you will not be able to change this value. Your laptop's thermal throttling temperature will probably be stuck at 92°C instead of the Intel recommended 100°C.

I know Google Chrome likes to set the timer resolution to 1 ms. Sometimes it forgets to reset this even after you exit Chrome. This is a global setting so any software on your computer can screw around with this Windows setting. Open up a command window and type in this command. (Don't type in the Code word.)


```
powercfg /energy
```

This will create a report called energy-report.html

That report might show what program is setting your timer resolution to 1 ms. As soon as I exit Chrome, my resolution goes back to the default 15.625 ms. When I am typing info into the TechPowerUp forum, there is no reason for Chrome to reduce the timer resolution to 1 ms. Looks like bad programming to me. Perhaps that is why other browsers have a better reputation for running longer when on battery power.


----------



## sagark93 (Nov 9, 2020)

LemonScent6 said:


> WOW what a difference! So I changed the core and the cache to both the 150 and the 200mV and they were both STABLE!!! No problems and my system didn't go past 77 deg. Ran Cinebench  after cranking everything up all the way like you suggested and got the best score on Cinebench yet. Please take a look at these changes/results for yourself and let me know if there's anything else that can be done.
> While the computer was underload (took a couple screenshots mid benchmark) it highlighted red SOLID on PL1 which I suspect as you said the laptop restricted itself to only 45W. Mid load it didn't go past 45W at all but gave me the best benchmarks yet. Is this new Cinebench score considered on the better side for my processor?





I have the Acer Nitro 5 as well with the i5 9300h and I followed the same settings and was able to get a Cinebench score of 2025. 
But the temps while playing Red Dead Redemption 2 were around 85 degree celsius which I felt were a bit high. 
I reduced the Turbo Ratio Limits to 38 from 41 and got a bit lower temps but the Cinebench score reduced to 1964.
Also, I have the same issue of PROCHOT Offset having a locked icon, which I was not able to fix till now. 
I am not sure why your temps are a bit low compared to mine.
Any suggestions or potential improvements? @unclewebb


----------



## unclewebb (Nov 9, 2020)

sagark93 said:


> I reduced the Turbo Ratio Limits to 38 from 41


Modern gaming laptops with Intel CPUs run hot. It is by design. Intel says that any temperature under 100°C is a "safe operating temperature". 80°C and 90°C are equally safe.



sagark93 said:


> and was able to get a Cinebench score of 2025


That is a great score. 





						Cinebench - R20 overclocking records @ HWBOT
					

Overclocking records




					hwbot.org
				






sagark93 said:


> ...were around 85 degree Celsius which I felt were a bit high.


Are you an Intel engineer? Me neither. That is why I trust Intel. If Intel thought 85°C was not a safe temperature, they would lower the thermal throttling temperature to 85°C. Intel has used the same 100°C thermal throttling temperature for over 10 years for the vast majority of CPUs they have produced. If your CPU ever gets too hot, it will automatically slow down to protect itself from any damage.


----------



## Andrés R. (Dec 29, 2020)

Good evening, i've been using a pre-configured Throttlestop, a few days ago, i started reading about how to set things in TS so i downloaded and being experimenting with it. I constantly see the yellow EDP OTHER in limit reasons and not knowing if my config is good or not, I would like to be guided by you. I have a Nitro 5 whit the gtx 1050 gpu and the  i5 8300h. It would be great if you could reply.  Im going to attach some screenshots, hope their good info for you. Thanks in advance.      Ps: those temps are because its almost night when playing witcher it is around 87 and gets to 90 sometimes.


----------



## unclewebb (Dec 30, 2020)

@Andrés R. - No need to worry about EDP OTHER lighting up under the RING column. That one tends to be hyper sensitive. In the Turbo Ratio Limits you have the 4 core active multiplier set to 36 and your screenshot shows 36.00 for the multiplier across all 8 threads so your CPU is not throttling at all. If you want, you can increase the turbo ratios back to their default values; 40, 40, 40, 39. These CPUs can happily run for hours at over 90°C. No worries.

Your Intel GPU undervolt is probably not doing anything. You usually have to undervolt the Intel GPU and iGPU Unslice equally. You have a Nvidia GPU so there is not much reason to undervolt the Intel GPU. When this is used, it is usually a very light load so undervolting it is not going to save you much of anything. It might make your CPU less stable so most users leave it at +0.0000.

Grab the latest TS version from here.








						ThrottleStop 9.2.9
					

ThrottleStop 9.2.9 https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/  New Features - added 10850K / 10900K support including a new Turbo Group access window. - updated the TS Bench and the C State window for the 10 core CPUs. - enabled Limit Reasons support for Comet Lake CPUs. -...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Andrés R. (Dec 30, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> @Andrés R. - No need to worry about EDP OTHER lighting up under the RING column. That one tends to be hyper sensitive. In the Turbo Ratio Limits you have the 4 core active multiplier set to 36 and your screenshot shows 36.00 for the multiplier across all 8 threads so your CPU is not throttling at all. If you want, you can increase the turbo ratios back to their default values; 40, 40, 40, 39. These CPUs can happily run for hours at over 90°C. No worries.
> 
> Your Intel GPU undervolt is probably not doing anything. You usually have to undervolt the Intel GPU and iGPU Unslice equally. You have a Nvidia GPU so there is not much reason to undervolt the Intel GPU. When this is used, it is usually a very light load so undervolting it is not going to save you much of anything. It might make your CPU less stable so most users leave it at +0.0000.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for your answer, I have put them back to those values (the turbo ratios) although I let them in 39,39,39,38, mainly cause still like that it can get to 95 when testing with pcmark10, I also have make changes to the voltage offset in cpu option, how low can it go? im attaching some screenshots so you can see. Thank you in advance, in deed, thanks for your time and guidance.


----------



## unclewebb (Dec 30, 2020)

Andrés R. said:


> how low can it go?


Do some testing with Cinebench R20.








						MAXON Cinebench (R20.0) Download
					

CINEBENCH is a real-world cross platform test suite that evaluates your computer's performance capabilities. CINEBENCH is based on MAXON's award-winn




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Keep lowering only the core voltage. Requesting different voltages tricks the CPU into using less voltage when running any software that uses a lot of AVX instructions. Cinebench R20 is the best test for this. Most people with your CPU can set the core offset to -200 mV or -225 mV and still be 100% stable. If you lose stability, back the cache offset voltage off first and test again. -125 mV is more typical for the cache. Run the TS Bench set to 960M to test for errors. The TS Bench will show errors, sometimes within a few seconds,  if your cache voltage is set too low.



http://imgur.com/DyqiivD


If you keep increasing the core offset to -300 mV or -500 mV, the excess will simply be ignored. Best Cinebench performance and best temperatures happen right around -225 mV for most users.



Andrés R. said:


> it can get to 95


The default thermal throttling temperature is 100°C. Any temperature below this is a "safe operating temperature" according to Intel. If this was not safe and it was costing Intel a pile of money, they would have lowered this temperature years ago. Intel has been very consistent with this maximum temperature for 12+ years since the first Core i was introduced. Your laptop manufacturer has set the thermal throttling temperature (PROCHOT) to 95°C so the CPU will be extra safe. In the Options window, if the PROCHOT Offset feature does not show a Lock icon, you can reduce the PROCHOT Offset value from 5 towards the Intel default value which is 0. This will allow your CPU to perform like Intel intended.



Andrés R. said:


> Thank you


You are welcome. I enjoy helping users get the most out of their Intel CPUs. If Intel was smart, they would hire me.
I could be the official spokesperson for their hot running CPU lineup.


----------



## Andrés R. (Dec 30, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> Do some testing with Cinebench R20.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can't find other word but thank you. I did what you adviced, turned core offset to -225 mV, and also changed the cache offset to -125mV, did the TS bench and found no errors so I used cinebench as you told me, I was taking a log of throttlestop while on it, Im gona attach it, it would be very useful if you can give me an insight of whats happening, I guess that since cinebench did its work without crashing then system is stable (am i right?) but I dont get what the log tells me. Also in cinebench it went up to 92c, I havent test in games, cause (I think I mentioned it) while playing the witcher 3 (I do my test of temps in novigrad square since it always make temps go to the roof) I always get 95 or so. Once again a million thanks for your time and effort. By the way, yes they should hire you!!


----------



## unclewebb (Dec 30, 2020)

Andrés R. said:


> turned core offset to -225 mV


Did you do some Cinebench R20 testing or did you just set the voltage and do one test? On your CPU, maybe -175 mV or -200 mV or -250 mV will be best. If you do not do some testing at different voltages, you will never know what works best for your CPU.

You have your turbo ratios set to the 38 multiplier when 4 cores are active. Your log file shows that the CPU multiplier is steady at 38.00. Your CPU is doing exactly what you have asked it to do. I would set this to 39 but 38 is OK if that helps control your maximum CPU temperature. Power consumption is less than 45W so there is no power limit throttling during this test. Everything looks OK. If the TS Bench test did not report any errors then it is time to go play some games. 

92°C in Cinebench R20 is OK. Intel says their CPUs can run at 100°C so I let my CPU hit 100°C when running R20. 
Intel CPUs can run reliably at high temperatures. No worries.



http://imgur.com/WHvPKZy


----------



## Andrés R. (Dec 30, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> Did you do some Cinebench R20 testing or did you just set the voltage and do one test? On your CPU, maybe -175 mV or -200 mV or -250 mV will be best. If you do not do some testing at different voltages, you will never know what works best for your CPU.
> 
> You have your turbo ratios set to the 38 multiplier when 4 cores are active. Your log file shows that the CPU multiplier is steady at 38.00. Your CPU is doing exactly what you have asked it to do. I would set this to 39 but 38 is OK if that helps control your maximum CPU temperature. Power consumption is less than 45W so there is no power limit throttling during this test. Everything looks OK. If the TS Bench test did not report any errors then it is time to go play some games.
> 
> ...


hahaha, sorry I just did one test, gonna make some more. Thank you for replying and for being there for us while tampering with TS, I feel more confident now. I've read many post, many questions and you always reply, that is something I'm grateful because it gave me the confidence to ask and find if what I was doing, was fine. Also I'm not scared of heat now, cause as you said these cpus are made to cope with a lot of heat without damage. Thanks again, for being so helpful and for caring. Hope this exchange between us help others solve their doubts or encorage them to ask  their own questions. You have helped me and Im really grateful


----------



## n00Be (Dec 31, 2020)

Andrés R. said:


> Good evening, i've been using a pre-configured Throttlestop, a few days ago, i started reading about how to set things in TS so i downloaded and being experimenting with it. I constantly see the yellow EDP OTHER in limit reasons and not knowing if my config is good or not, I would like to be guided by you. I have a Nitro 5 whit the gtx 1050 gpu and the  i5 8300h. It would be great if you could reply.  Im going to attach some screenshots, hope their good info for you. Thanks in advance.      Ps: those temps are because its almost night when playing witcher it is around 87 and gets to 90 sometimes.    View attachment 181525View attachment 181527View attachment 181526



On your TPL tab you have Turbo Boost Long Power & Short Power max set to 256. Shouldn't those be set at 45 & 56 watts respectively?

I'm surprised you are still hitting 90 C+ after applying a healthy undervolt (_especially _since you're not even running the factory turbo ratios). As soon as I applied any undervolt starting at -0.1000 I started seeing temp reductions with my i5-8300h Nitro5. In terms of performance I found that a -0.155 undervolt on both core & cache yielded the highest Cinebench20 score for my machine. It ran slightly cooler with the more aggressive undervolts (-0.175, -0.180, etc) but we're talking MAYBE 1 degree C; there was probably more difference in Max Power (I could get that down as low as 40.0 W vs. the typical 42.0 or 42.1 W max on a -0.155 undervolt - and this was at a steady turbo ratio of 39.0 throughout tests). 

When you ran a Cinebench20 with factory voltages (no undervolt), turbo ratios (40/40/40/39), and TPL's (45 & 56 or even 45 & 45) what did your thermals & Max Power look like compared to the undervolt & reduced turbo ratios?


----------



## unclewebb (Dec 31, 2020)

n00Be said:


> Shouldn't those be set at 45 & 56 watts respectively?


45W / 56W are the typical default values for a CPU with a 45W TDP rating but you can set these however you like.
Setting the turbo power limits sky high helps make sure that these limits will never be the cause of any throttling.

2109 in R20 on a 4 core CPU is excellent. Good work. If you can find 10 more points you will be #1 at HWBot.  









						thejock3r3`s Cinebench - R20 score: 2119 cb with a Core i5 8300H
					

The Core i5 8300H @ 3900MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R20 benchmark. thejock3r3ranks #328 worldwide and #2 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




					hwbot.org


----------



## Andrés R. (Jan 2, 2021)

n00Be said:


> On your TPL tab you have Turbo Boost Long Power & Short Power max set to 256. Shouldn't those be set at 45 & 56 watts respectively?
> 
> I'm surprised you are still hitting 90 C+ after applying a healthy undervolt (_especially _since you're not even running the factory turbo ratios). As soon as I applied any undervolt starting at -0.1000 I started seeing temp reductions with my i5-8300h Nitro5. In terms of performance I found that a -0.155 undervolt on both core & cache yielded the highest Cinebench20 score for my machine. It ran slightly cooler with the more aggressive undervolts (-0.175, -0.180, etc) but we're talking MAYBE 1 degree C; there was probably more difference in Max Power (I could get that down as low as 40.0 W vs. the typical 42.0 or 42.1 W max on a -0.155 undervolt - and this was at a steady turbo ratio of 39.0 throughout tests).
> 
> When you ran a Cinebench20 with factory voltages (no undervolt), turbo ratios (40/40/40/39), and TPL's (45 & 56 or even 45 & 45) what did your thermals & Max Power look like compared to the undervolt & reduced turbo ratios?


Hi, those numbers in Long/short power was because i have seen some EDP Other in ring in "limit reasons" and reading other posts 256 was a magic number so i used it, but it didn't change much, so i have them on 45 56. As for the temps I still get to high 80c but im not worried anymore. I decided to let turbo ratios at 39 and the core offset is in -250.  About cinebech, im feeling dumb cause i didn't run it w/o undervolt, not the brigthest one here. I was more worried for lowering my temps than for making any compare, in fact, didn't know you had to do long testing (several runs) of the benching software just to be sure it was stable. im just learing this kind of stuff.


----------



## n00Be (Jan 11, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> 45W / 56W are the typical default values for a CPU with a 45W TDP rating but you can set these however you like.
> Setting the turbo power limits sky high helps make sure that these limits will never be the cause of any throttling.
> 
> 2109 in R20 on a 4 core CPU is excellent. Good work. If you can find 10 more points you will be #1 at HWBot.
> ...


I didn't realise it was that good of a score. This i5-8300H Nitro (once undervolted) has always averaged 2030-2060 in Cinebench20. 
As for trying to juice a few extra points... not going to happen. For that all-time 2109 score I had to use every trick in the book! (closing processes, setting others to lowest priority and only 1 core affinity, positioning the Cinebench app window outside the viewing area of my desktop screen, etc).



Andrés R. said:


> Hi, those numbers in Long/short power was because i have seen some EDP Other in ring in "limit reasons" and reading other posts 256 was a magic number so i used it, but it didn't change much, so i have them on 45 56. As for the temps I still get to high 80c but im not worried anymore. I decided to let turbo ratios at 39 and the core offset is in -250.  About cinebech, im feeling dumb cause i didn't run it w/o undervolt, not the brigthest one here. I was more worried for lowering my temps than for making any compare, in fact, didn't know you had to do long testing (several runs) of the benching software just to be sure it was stable. im just learing this kind of stuff.


I had looked into EDP OTHER under RING too. I usually see that in yellow, and it was unclewebb i'm sure who said its not uncommon for sensors to get tripped. Often when I start my laptop up for the first time and open TS i'm seeing a yellow PL1 and/or 2. Once I clear them I never see them again. I used to run tons of logs when benchmarking on Kombustor or Cinebench and while gaming; looking at temps, C%, multiplier, power wattage... the laptop was running fine so I stopped worrying or even keeping an eye open on alerts.

I honestly don't even bother using turbo boost anymore. Its not that i'm worried about heat; I did so much testing and comparing months ago when gaming and I could literally find NO difference in terms of performance (FPS) when gaming with TB on or off. At least for the cheesy games I/we play in this house like World of Warships (which is capped at 77fps), Among Us, and Fortnite. It's interesting that the CPU load (%) is noticeably higher with TB off (yet temps and power consumption are so much lower). In fact power consumption with TB OFF is the biggest surprise. With this i5-8300H humming along a 2.29 MHz & 39.0 max multiplier it often times won't even hit 15.0 W Max power. I don't need to have stupid CoolBoost 6,000 RPM fans running either. I'm pretty sure you are running a heavy game that is very CPU & GPU demanding so you'd likely need the higher clock speeds.


----------



## Andrés R. (Jan 14, 2021)

n00Be said:


> I didn't realise it was that good of a score. This i5-8300H Nitro (once undervolted) has always averaged 2030-2060 in Cinebench20.
> As for trying to juice a few extra points... not going to happen. For that all-time 2109 score I had to use every trick in the book! (closing processes, setting others to lowest priority and only 1 core affinity, positioning the Cinebench app window outside the viewing area of my desktop screen, etc).
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, I mostly play Witcher 3 and some bethesda games, I dont know how turning off turbo boost would afect those games so I leave it on. I also have the thing of pl1 pl2 being yellow when I run TS (dont like to make it start with windows), I guess is pre-undervolt data, I clean them as you do and never see them again unless I run a heavy benchmarking tool (occt), I've noticed that high temps in the witcher were present only in novigrad square and as that is not a game hub (I guess, not sure), there is no problem cause those temps only happen (as far as I noticed) in novigrad, in general it stays on the high 70s low 80 with peaks to 85-86 temps. I'm getting used to this, and seeing how many laptops (even high end ones) suffer from heat, I now see it as normal. I dont know about my score in cinebench, is it good? cant find anything to compare.


----------



## n00Be (Jan 14, 2021)

Andrés R. said:


> Yep, I mostly play Witcher 3 and some bethesda games, I dont know how turning off turbo boost would afect those games so I leave it on. I also have the thing of pl1 pl2 being yellow when I run TS (dont like to make it start with windows), I guess is pre-undervolt data, I clean them as you do and never see them again unless I run a heavy benchmarking tool (occt), I've noticed that high temps in the witcher were present only in novigrad square and as that is not a game hub (I guess, not sure), there is no problem cause those temps only happen (as far as I noticed) in novigrad, in general it stays on the high 70s low 80 with peaks to 85-86 temps. I'm getting used to this, and seeing how many laptops (even high end ones) suffer from heat, I now see it as normal. I dont know about my score in cinebench, is it good? cant find anything to compare.


This guy couldn't even hit 1400 pts with his i5-8300h: 








So looks like a good score to me, and based on what our resident guru said  
If you want to try to squeeze out the most points (cheat) you can read up some tips online, like killing all non-essential processes; even minimizing the Cinebench20 window and dragging it down so that most if not all of the picture that gets rendered is out of view on your screen, that apparently helps. The no point other than curiosity or bragging lights I guess.


----------



## Andrés R. (Jan 19, 2021)

Hello guys, and good night, 
Im writing this because I don't know if this is good or bad (havent notice any performance issues), but while Im gaming, the cpu clock goes from 3900 ghz to 1500 ghz, and later can stay as so for minutes, then goes high again but i dont notice any stutter, the game runs fine ( as long as for what i manage to notice). My question is: is this acceptable, I mean, when one is gaming it is suposed that the cpu run on its maximum, or is it due to the impact of the cpu usage at the moment.  I've search in the web but I cant find an answer. these clock fluctuations began when I changed speed shift epp to 100. I had it in 64 but i was trying to reduce temps. Hope you can help me. Thanks in advance.


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 19, 2021)

Andrés R. said:


> while I'm gaming, the cpu clock goes from 3900 MHz to 1500 MHz


Are you using ThrottleStop to monitor your CPU frequency or are you using some other app? Turn on the ThrottleStop Log File option. This will contain an accurate record of your CPU performance while gaming including any reasons for throttling. 

When there is a load on a CPU, it should be running at its rated speed. Some monitoring software is not very accurate when Speed Shift is being used. Attach a ThrottleStop log file to your next post so I can have a look. You can also copy and paste the data to www.pastebin.com


----------



## Andrés R. (Jan 19, 2021)

Hello, 
I did a played a game for a little while, this is what it says in the log, thanks for your help.


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 20, 2021)

Your log file shows constant POWER STATUS CHANGE notices every 5 seconds. This is usually caused by software trying to protect your battery by holding it to a 70% charge. This kind of software might be great for your long term battery life when doing any light duty activity. I would not want this software managing my computer when playing games. I would rather buy a new battery a year sooner than have inconsistent performance caused by this feature.


----------



## Andrés R. (Jan 20, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Your log file shows constant POWER STATUS CHANGE notices every 5 seconds. This is usually caused by software trying to protect your battery by holding it to a 70% charge. This kind of software might be great for your long term battery life when doing any light duty activity. I would not want this software managing my computer when playing games. I would rather buy a new battery a year sooner than have inconsistent performance caused by this feature.


I have no program doing that  dont know what could it be, recently I was watching TS options looking for the "show limit reasons" in log and Its gone, I also noticed that TS has an option ticked: "battery monitoring" could it be that? also I did undervolt the gpu, may this have that effect? trying all these stuff like undervolting both is kind of fun, it keeps me busy but I have no clue if anything is fine :V since I dont get blue screen or so errors, I trust it is fine. Again thanks for replying.


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 20, 2021)

Andrés R. said:


> I have no program doing that


The previous log file you posted at the top of this screen does not show any POWER STATUS CHANGE notices. Something has changed. Are you running any Acer software on your computer that might have this battery saving technology? Is your battery being fully charged to 100%?

The ThrottleStop "Battery Monitoring" option does not cause constant POWER STATUS CHANGE notices on my computer. You can try turning this off if you think it is causing this problem.


Andrés R. said:


> show limit reasons


This was optional in older versions of ThrottleStop. I decided it was useful information so it is automatically included in the log file now. No need to check anything to enable it.









						ThrottleStop 9.2.9
					

ThrottleStop 9.2.9 https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/  New Features - added 10850K / 10900K support including a new Turbo Group access window. - updated the TS Bench and the C State window for the 10 core CPUs. - enabled Limit Reasons support for Comet Lake CPUs. -...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Andrés R. (Jan 21, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> The previous log file you posted at the top of this screen does not show any POWER STATUS CHANGE notices. Something has changed. Are you running any Acer software on your computer that might have this battery saving technology? Is your battery being fully charged to 100%?
> 
> The ThrottleStop "Battery Monitoring" option does not cause constant POWER STATUS CHANGE notices on my computer. You can try turning this off if you think it is causing this problem.
> 
> ...


I dont know what happened, same settings different hour, I have attached 2 logs. As I say I have no battery related soft. Dont know if it did anything but I just unplugged the laptop for a while, turn it off like 2 hours later and turned it on just a while ago. Should I be worry for those changes, I notice my cpu clock keeps going down sometimes, it is mostly stable.


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 21, 2021)

@Andrés R.  - The log file from 2021-01-20  19:58:10 to 20:18:00 looks great. Both the CPU and GPU are running at full speed without any issues. There are also no POWER STATUS CHANGE notices.

The second log file you posted above is full of POWER STATUS CHANGE notices. Not sure why this only happens sometimes or even why this is happening. You cannot think of any manufacturer's software that is running somewhere on your computer? I do not think gaming will be smooth when these notices are constantly happening every 5 seconds. This might only happen after you first boot up or perhaps after a sleep or hibernate - resume cycle. Some laptops do funny things after one of these cycles.


----------



## Andrés R. (Jan 21, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> @Andrés R.  - The log file from 2021-01-20  19:58:10 to 20:18:00 looks great. Both the CPU and GPU are running at full speed without any issues. There are also no POWER STATUS CHANGE notices.
> 
> The second log file you posted above is full of POWER STATUS CHANGE notices. Not sure why this only happens sometimes or even why this is happening. You cannot think of any manufacturer's software that is running somewhere on your computer? I do not think gaming will be smooth when these notices are constantly happening every 5 seconds. This might only happen after you first boot up or perhaps after a sleep or hibernate - resume cycle. Some laptops do funny things after one of these cycles.


Yes, its super weird cause I have not made any changes, do I have to set power plan in windows as performance or does it confict with speedshift? Any way, I'll do some follow up to see if it (POWER STATUS CHANGE) happens again. I'll update in a few days, thank you for all your help.


----------



## nikola87 (Jan 25, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Edit - Some of the 8th and 9th Gen CPUs are happy when the core is undervolted significantly more than the cache. I have heard that a ratio of 2:1 is OK. If the cache is OK at -100 mV then the core might still be stable at -200 mV. Cinebench is a great way to test this out.


This worked on my i5-10300h cpu with rtx 2060, after more than two months that I have the new laptop and it drove me crazy, finally undervolt worked, because before I used the same core and cache voltage as I did on the old one  laptop with sixth generation cpu (but it worked) but on this the temperatures were always very high touching 100 degrees, now instead thanks to your suggestion using the 2:1 ratio I set -0.105v on cache and -0.205 on core, and man I'm dreaming!  He got 10-20° less drop, really fantastic!  I almost gave up and thought it was really a thermal paste problem.  So thanks again friend, I hope it will be useful to others too


----------



## Andrés R. (Feb 6, 2021)

so I've been working and gaming as usual and the laptop still gets some throttle, I guess its as good as it gets. I've noticed that if you undervolt the Nvidia gpu temps are pretty much lower, laptop wont even use the fans at all when i'm working all day in it, and if i play they barely make noise cause temps are so low, now I'm gonna post my settings for others to have a reference point. I'm pretty happy with the results. I guess the throttle is power limit, although it does not appear in limit reasons unless I'm using cinebench. Any way cpu turbo goes down for a sec or two, but I think I'll have to cope with it, at least my lappy runs cooler than ever and if throttle is not because of heat.


----------



## unclewebb (Feb 6, 2021)

Andrés R. said:


> laptop still gets some throttle


It does not appear to be throttling. The slight multiplier drops in the log file might be because of your Speed Shift EPP setting. If you want the maximum multiplier to be consistent when gaming, try setting Speed Shift EPP to 0.

Your temps are OK so you can increase your turbo ratios back to their default values of 40, 40, 40, 39.
Overall CPU and GPU temps and performance looks great. Another success story. Thanks for sharing your settings.


----------



## Caring1 (Feb 7, 2021)

Aspire7Rhondy said:


> @unclewebb Im also looking for help IF possible please!?
> I have an Aspire 7 -> i79750H and a gtx1650.
> 
> ANY help would be appreciated. please tell me what photos and logs you need to assist me IF you can.
> ...


Stick to ONE THREAD please.


----------



## Aspire7Rhondy (Feb 7, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Stick to ONE THREAD please.


understood


----------



## virga (Oct 21, 2021)

@unclewebb my 9300H is handling -125, -250 fine.  Is there more underclocking room to be found be decreasing the cache undervolt further?


----------



## unclewebb (Oct 21, 2021)

virga said:


> Is there more


Only you can answer that question. Most of these CPUs start to lose stability if you go much beyond -125 mV.


----------



## jacob_ (Oct 25, 2021)

First of all, I apologize if I don't write very well in English, but let me give it a try. 

Hi @unclewebb, can i use this thread to get your advice with your TS knowledge please?
I have a Nitro 5 52-54AM notebook with 8300H CPU and 4GB NVIDIA 1050 GPU and 16GB RAM...

I'm following the same configuration that Andrés R posted on the previous page, but I don't feel comfortable if I'm doing a great job because as you mentioned in many other threads I read before bringing my question here, is that each CPU has its own possibilities...

I followed an Acer Community thread where a guy posted some settings for some CPUs like my 8300H, (I don't know if I can post the link here, but let me know if I can) and those settings are working fine and based on I made some changes using the changes from Andrés R, but I would like to increase my FPS without increasing the TEMP too much and reading many of your posts in other forums before dropping here, I realized that I can also make a better configuration.

I ran CinebenchR20 following your advice while reading this topic, but I only got about 1850 points using this setup.

I'm a little confused about what I should do to get the best performance. I already know that reaching a TEMP around 90° or more is OK. Maybe it's a silly question but, do I need to run benchmarks only when I'm not using any programs?

I would like to post my log for your review, but I would like to know what I should do before I log this. Do I have to close all programs before run a Cinebench or a TS bench to get the best log information? Can you give me some advice on how to collect this as best as possible please?
I attached a log when I performed the CR20 but I appreciate if you guide me to collect best info as well.

Before anything I would like to say thank you for your excellent work helping other people to extract their best from your CPUs.


----------



## unclewebb (Oct 25, 2021)

```
DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP   NVIDIA GPU     VID   POWER
2021-10-24  17:15:15  37.00   99.5  100.0       0   95    1354    48   1.0217   43.8   TEMP
2021-10-24  17:15:16  37.03   99.5  100.0       0   94    1354    48   0.9961   43.9   TEMP
2021-10-24  17:15:17  37.09   99.5  100.0       0   95    1354    49   0.9948   44.0   TEMP
2021-10-24  17:15:18  37.04   99.6  100.0       0   96    1354    49   1.0217   43.8   TEMP
2021-10-24  17:15:19  37.06   99.6  100.0       0   95    1354    49   0.9979   43.8   TEMP
2021-10-24  17:15:20  37.02   99.7  100.0       0   94    1354    49   0.9961   43.8   TEMP
..........
2021-10-24  17:17:44  36.38   99.6  100.0       0   95    1354    52   0.9722   41.8   TEMP
2021-10-24  17:17:45  36.40   99.5  100.0       0   95    1354    52   0.9943   41.9   TEMP
2021-10-24  17:17:46  36.35   99.6  100.0       0   95    1354    52   0.9950   41.7   TEMP
2021-10-24  17:17:47  36.41   99.1  100.0       0   96    1354    52   1.0238   41.7   TEMP
```

The log file you posted shows TEMP for about 2 minutes and 30 seconds. That means your CPU temperature is too high. Your CPU is mostly at 95°C or 96°C. Acer set the thermal throttling temperature of your laptop to 95°C. Your CPU is being forced to slow down so it is not damaged by heat. 

To get better performance, you need better cooling. Have you ever cleaned inside your laptop or replaced the thermal paste? If you do a good job and use a well rated thermal paste, this can help reduce your CPU temperature. A maximum temperature of 90°C is OK. When the CPU reaches 95°C, it will start to slow down. 

When running Cinebench, you do not want other programs running in the background. If you are busy running a different program on your computer then the Cinebench results will not be good. 

The Intel GPU and System Agent voltage do not need to be set to the same value. It is the Intel GPU and the iGPU Unslice that should be set to the same value. You have a Nvidia GPU so lowering the voltage of the Intel GPU and iGPU Unslice will make very little difference. If lowering these voltages does not make your computer run better then do not do it. Your computer might become unstable if these voltages are too low. I set the Intel GPU and iGPU Unslice to +0.0000 and I also set the System Agent to +0.0000. These three voltages are not that important.


----------



## jacob_ (Oct 25, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> ```
> DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP   NVIDIA GPU     VID   POWER
> 2021-10-24  17:15:15  37.00   99.5  100.0       0   95    1354    48   1.0217   43.8   TEMP
> 2021-10-24  17:15:16  37.03   99.5  100.0       0   94    1354    48   0.9961   43.9   TEMP
> ...


Thanks for answering.

Yes, I replaced the thermal paste and cleaned inside the notebook and am using a base cooler to help cool the notebook too.

I changed the GPU and iGPU Unslice back to config I downloaded (based on Acer forum I mentioned) and set the System Agent to +0.0000 following your advice, but I think the biggest change was in Turbo Ratio as per the screenshot attached I set to 39-37-37-37 repectively.

My CNR20 increase the record and according to the new TS log, I only received one TEMP warning during the CNR20 test.

Is there anything I could do to eliminate this in order to raise Turbo Ratio back to default?


----------



## unclewebb (Oct 25, 2021)

Does it really matter if you throttle your CPU by lowering the turbo ratios or if your laptop runs hot and thermal throttles itself? Either way, your CPU is not running at its full rated speed. The only way to fix this problem is to improve the cooling. What thermal paste did you use? Is it recommended for laptops or direct die cooling? Noctua NT-H2 works well on laptop CPUs.

Your ThrottleStop settings are as good as they can get. A -150 mV cache undervolt is already on the edge of stability. If you ever have any BSOD, you might need to back that off a little. 

With better cooling, your CPU might run 5% faster so your Cinebench score could increase from 1900 points up to about 2000 points. Better cooling will also improve long term performance. Some laptops will slow down significantly when they start running too hot. The heat gets trapped and has nowhere to go. Thermal throttling gets worse which can slow the CPU down more and more. 

It is either time to get out the Dremel and re-engineer your laptop for better air flow or be happy that your laptop is already running at about 95% of its potential. Going OCD for that last 5% is rarely worth it.


----------



## jacob_ (Oct 25, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Does it really matter if you throttle your CPU by lowering the turbo ratios or if your laptop runs hot and thermal throttles itself? Either way, your CPU is not running at its full rated speed. The only way to fix this problem is to improve the cooling. What thermal paste did you use? Is it recommended for laptops or direct die cooling? Noctua NT-H2 works well on laptop CPUs.
> 
> Your ThrottleStop settings are as good as they can get. A -150 mV cache undervolt is already on the edge of stability. If you ever have any BSOD, you might need to back that off a little.
> 
> ...


Regarding the thermal paste I used the Arctic Mx-4 following some comments before buying, the same as other people with the same Nitro 5, but I could try this one next year.

I think I am looking for something that I already reached, maybe...

Either way I really appreciate your help and your time in answer my questions. Thank you so much!


----------



## unclewebb (Oct 25, 2021)

Some people have not had great long term results with MX-4 when applied direct die to laptop CPUs.






						TechnologyGuide
					

Thank you for visiting the TechnologyGuide network. Unfortunately, these forums are no longer active. We extend a heartfelt thank you to the entire community for their steadfast support—it is really you, our readers, that drove




					forum.notebookreview.com


----------



## virga (Oct 31, 2021)

Thank you all for your shared knowledge!

Reporting in on my 9300H undervolt:
Lenovo Legion Y540-15IRH. 
-150 mV Cache, -300 mV Core
Cinebench 2060~ (max 2093)
47.8W, board 60W TDP

84*C under load, 88*C max

-185 mV Cahce, -370 mV core, unstable under speed shift

1660 ti Mobile
1725 Hz (+135 Hz core) @ 768 mV (-32 mV)
6800 (+800 Hz Memory)
5700~ 3dMarks Time Spy
Stays below board 80W TDP

64*C under load


----------

