# Rep. Baca Introduces Legislation to Make Violent Video Games Sold With Health Warning



## alexp999 (Jan 14, 2009)

Today, Congressman Joe Baca (D-Rialto) introduced legislation that mandates all video games with an Electronics Software Ratings Board (ESRB) rating of Teen (T) or higher be sold with a health warning label. The Video Game Health Labeling Act of 2009 creates a new rule within the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), which forces games with a T rating or higher to be sold with a simple warning label, reading: "WARNING: Excessive exposure to violent video games and other violent media has been linked to aggressive behavior."

"The video game industry has a responsibility to parents, families, and to consumers - to inform them of the potentially damaging content that is often found in their products," said Rep. Baca. "They have repeatedly failed to live up to this responsibility. Meanwhile research continues to show a proven link between playing violent games and increased aggression in young people. American families deserve to know the truth about these potentially dangerous products."


Rep. Baca has been a lead advocate in Congress on the issues of violence and sex in the media. In particular, he has been very active in ensuring the video game industry accurately details the content of its games to parents and consumers. Recent scientific studies from the Pediatrics Journal, University of Indiana, University of Missouri, and Michigan State University all point to a neurological link between playing violent video games and aggressive behavior in children and teenagers.

"We must hold the video game industry accountable and do everything in our power to ensure parents are aware of the detrimental effects that violent games can have before making decisions on which games are appropriate for their children to play," concluded Rep. Baca. "I am proud to introduce the Video Game Health Labeling Act of 2009, and am hopeful my legislation can work to stop the growing influence of violent media on America's children and youth."

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


----------



## Triprift (Jan 14, 2009)

Lol i call bs on this one the usual any voilence in kids blame video games so were going to get a ala ciggerate pack warning on are games lame.

Baca sounds like the US version of Michael Atkinson here in Oz if these guys had there way the only games we would be playing is lame kid ones news flash guys alot of us gamers are adults and should be able to play whatever we choose.


----------



## DrPepper (Jan 14, 2009)

Well this means now games can't be held responsible for when people go shoot up a place and say they were influenced by flight simulator X or whatever.


----------



## Zehnsucht (Jan 14, 2009)

> “WARNING: Excessive exposure to violent video games and other violent media has been linked to aggressive behavior.”


Wow, I'd like to see that report. 

But this is to be expected in the US anyway. The US trust people enough to carry guns, but do not consider them grown up enough to differentiate reality from fiction. :/

Guns don't kill people, people kills people eh?
Well, neither does games. Or music. Or movies for that matter.


----------



## kyle2020 (Jan 14, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> Well this means now games can't be held responsible for when people go shoot up a place and say they were influenced by flight simulator X or whatever.



Couldnt agree more - this could be a good thing for gaming.


----------



## Sapientwolf (Jan 14, 2009)

This is going to be difficult to get passed.  I just did a 10 page research paper on exposure to violent media for my college English course and out of all the research I looked at never gave a credible link between violence exposure and aggressive behavior.  There is a lot of priming research that says violent media primes us to give higher considerations to violent behavior, but the motive has to pre-exist (you decide you're going to kill someone before you decide you're going to gun them down like you saw in that videogame.)

They've linked violent media exposure to more violent and aggressive thoughts, but never to violent behavior, this is usually assumed.  It most cases it's a mixed bag of socioeconomic issues and mental health.  I do agree that parents should be aware of what their kids are playing and choose if they are mature enough to handle the content but we can't be spreading unproven links.

If they wanted to pass a law that made the ESRB rating and contents description take up half of the front cover I wouldn't mind at all.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 14, 2009)

What "research?"

I just ran into this article:


> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16099971/
> 
> The first game was the high-octane but non-violent racing game “Need for Speed: Underground.” The other was the ultra-violent first-person shooter “Medal of Honor: Frontline.”
> 
> ...


My conclusion: these people don't understand games nor gamers.  Take, for instance, the fact that Undercover is a horrible game where you are a car compared to MoH where you are a virtual human being.  Naturally, an FPS is going to incite primal instincts of the brain while being a car won't.  This isn't rocket science.

I'm beginning to believe that most adults that don't play games simply hold a grudge against it.  They will try to find any damn thing that they can shake a finger at that says "this MUST be making children violent."  Frankly, I'm getting sick of it.  If game violence makes people violent, then why are all these politicians with a grudge against gaming still alive?  Hmmm........


Oh, and please, violence in games is no worse than watching a movie.  If they are going to stick thorough labels on games than no other display of violence should be excluded (including films, television, cable networks, etc.).  Maybe that consideration would make them realize how nearsighted they are being.


----------



## alexp999 (Jan 14, 2009)

According to some of the sites I was looking at in doing this post, it seems Baca has a bit of a vendetta against video games, he has been trying for years to pin something on them. Does this look like the sort of man that has tried video games and knows what would be best?


----------



## 95Viper (Jan 14, 2009)

I have to laugh at the ignorance of politicians.

The news gets me, in that, they show some idiot doing something stupid or just wrong and the next night you have some copycat.

They need the label.

Politicians need a label, too.  " If you put me in office I may do illegal things and try to get un-needed legislation passed to complicate, and make, your live, a pain in the a**."

We don't need our games legislated by government!


----------



## Triprift (Jan 14, 2009)

Lol no he doesnt Michael Atkinson is pretty much the same and is the one who is making it that so many games here in Oz are getting banned and have to be re done so they can get classification. looks like both of them have a vendetta against all bar sport and kids games.


----------



## alexp999 (Jan 14, 2009)

It may be a bit of a nanny state here in the UK, with all our Health and Safety BS, but at least we dont (yet) have any problems of games being banned.

Mind you I think everyone is in agreement, that what with the internet, if you want to play a banned game, you will, lol.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 14, 2009)

He's not American. He's from California. Those people aren't from Earth.

Anyway I hope they do this. I would love to put this warning on the side of my rig 
Also they need to put a warning on porn sites. "“WARNING: Excessive exposure to pornography and other erotic media has been linked to aggressive fapping and pelvic damage.”


----------



## kyle2020 (Jan 14, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> It may be a bit of a nanny state here in the UK, with all our Health and Safety BS, but at least we dont (yet) have any problems of games being banned.
> 
> Mind you I think everyone is in agreement, that what with the internet, if you want to play a banned game, you will, lol.



wasnt manhunt banned in the UK for some time?


----------



## The Witcher (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm sick of this, I really want to bitch slap these ignorant people who blame games because their children go and beat up other people or shoot them.

If they can't teach their children good manners and whats right and wrong then I guess its their problem not the games industry.

dumb politicians, they try to accuse games because they want the public to support them, they really don't care if the whole world died.

Like Zehnsucht said, Guns don't kill people, people kills people and the same goes with games.


----------



## alexp999 (Jan 14, 2009)

kyle2020 said:


> wasnt manhunt banned in the UK for some time?



Main thing was, for some time. They listened to the public and lifted then ban.
I think remaking a game is stupid, like what some games companies have to do to get australian classification.

Has their ever been a film that never made it to classification? wtf is the differnce?


----------



## Triprift (Jan 14, 2009)

Postals a good one you can be jailed in this country for having a copy of it.


----------



## Random Murderer (Jan 14, 2009)

can you say "jack thompson?"
looks like i have another name for my s**t-list.

violent video games being linked to aggressive behavior is only half of the story. it has also been proven that less than 15% of people who play violent video games have an aggression problem. this is just another example of idiot politicians blowing things way out of proportion.
and didn't the sims receive a t-rating? how is that violent? not all games rated t or higher are violent.


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Jan 14, 2009)

This is a stupid problem they made up.  People who go to war in RL should have an aggression problem more than people who stare at a monitor.


----------



## lemonadesoda (Jan 14, 2009)

What on earth is all this whining about? They just put a label on it, a warning label.

You can still go out and buy the game. You can also choose not to read the label. What a lot of hot air about nothing.


----------



## pentastar111 (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah, they need to pour themselves a big cup of shut-the-f$ck-up. What they should be doing is working on the economy, and not wasting time and money on stupid theories and lame brained ideas...f#cking USELESS a-holes...leave the parenting up to the parents, why is it everybody elses responsibility if  little billy shit-for-brains is a violent piece of crap? Here's a novel idea! Why not blame the parents for their lack of parenting....hmmm...I've been playing "violent" games for years, and I have yet to walk a little old lady across the street only to mug and kill on the other side...RIDICULOUS!!!


----------



## Triprift (Jan 14, 2009)

I thinks its to do with labelling gamers as potentially violent wich is total bull and the prob is that the general public is gullable and will believe anything elected officals and the media says.


----------



## Random Murderer (Jan 14, 2009)

Triprift said:


> I thinks its to do with labelling gamers as potentially violent wich is total bull and the prob is that the general public is gullable and will believe anything elected officals and the media says.



i couldn't have said it better if i tried.


----------



## 95Viper (Jan 14, 2009)

lemonadesoda said:


> What on earth is all this whining about? They just put a label on it, a warning label.
> 
> You can still go out and buy the game. You can also choose not to read the label. What a lot of hot air about nothing.



Label today, restrictions tomorrow, then BANNED!


----------



## newconroer (Jan 14, 2009)

Triprift said:


> Baca sounds like the US version of Michael Atkinson here in Oz if these guys had there way the only games we would be playing is lame kid ones news flash guys alot of us gamers are adults and should be able to play whatever we choose.



And we'd probably be a better world because of it. Video games do nothing to further humans in any positive way. 

The problem with paralleling these warnings with cigarettes and such things, is that those products are used by adults, who make a conscious decision whether or not to engage or partake; unlike the games which are played by children. In today's world with an ever increasing worry of money and finances, resulting in two working parents, and 'lax' baby-sitters, it's a bit more difficult for parents to manage. 

It's a two part process really. Parents need to get back to old-school discipline regiments, and businesses need to be held accountable for their moral influence over society. 

We advance technologically one step, and yet we regress morally three steps.
It's not a coincidence.

Needless to say, I'd much rather see warning labels, pictures and etc. on video games, than on tobacco products.


----------



## alexp999 (Jan 14, 2009)

Triprift said:


> I thinks its to do with labelling gamers as potentially violent wich is total bull and the prob is that the general public is gullable and will believe anything elected officals and the media says.





95Viper said:


> Label today, restrictions tomorrow, then BANNED!



My thoughts exactly.


----------



## 95Viper (Jan 14, 2009)

I do not play video games to further myself.  I play video games for relaxation and enjoyment.

My wife got me Crysis and warhead for Christmas and she got carded.  She is way over 21.  So the rating system works, no need for more crummy, useless legislation.

My son played and loved, and still does, so called violent video games; he is a CSI in Texas and got his Dive Master at age 16 (one of a very few).  Yes, parents need to raise their children, the goverment doesn't.

Sorry, my aggressive tendencies have come out, I guess the games I play caused this...


----------



## Homeless (Jan 14, 2009)

Doesn't really hurt games, so it doesn't bother me.  But like others have said, it may lead to restriction escalation eventually.  Hopefully not though


----------



## The Witcher (Jan 14, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> My thoughts exactly.



If war is what they want then we shall give it to them

Really, if they started to ban games then millions of gamers will have nothing to do and start doing bad things instead, like (taking drugs,alcohol addiction and smoking problems) believe me this is what will happen.

For example the Saudi youths don't have anything to do because the government banned a lot of games like GTA and God war..etc, so most of them has smoking problems and violence.


----------



## Random Murderer (Jan 14, 2009)

newconroer said:


> And we'd probably be a better world because of it. Video games do nothing to further humans in any positive way.


the fact that you say that proves how ignorant you are.
not that i had any respect for you before, but if i had, you would have lost it.

we do not play games to further anyone. we do it for enjoyment and/or relaxation. i bet you watch tv or play video games or smoke or drink(i could go on). do any of these further anyone? that's what i thought. stfu.

edit:
if you actually contemplate it, the development of games does further technology, which furthers society as a whole. if we were not playing video games, the developers would have nothing to do and therefore probably no longer exist, slowing advancements in certain technologies to a crawl.
think before you speak, and have a nice day.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm only 16, I have been playing violent games all my life and I don't have a single violent thought in my mind. They need to do tests on people that don't have down syndrome or something..


----------



## PCpraiser100 (Jan 14, 2009)

GTA 4 and Saints Row has proved it's worth to parents, now that in those kind of games you can do anything in the dark side of life. From gangs to just plain gore sandboxing, parents should notice about these games more often especially when kids get away with it most of the time.


----------



## ShadowFold (Jan 14, 2009)

PCpraiser100 said:


> GTA 4 and Saints Row has proved it's worth to parents, now that in those kind of games you can do anything in the dark side of life. From gangs to just plain gore sandboxing, parents should notice about these games more often especially when kids get away with it most of the time.



I was playing Saints Row 2 last night..


----------



## VIPER (Jan 14, 2009)

What company will be chosen to print the labels? Some relative with the nice congressman?  Since there are millions of labels to be done, all I can see here is another "legal" business to earn some "legal" money...


----------



## newtekie1 (Jan 14, 2009)

Yep, because those labels on the cigerrettes really stop people...


----------



## alexp999 (Jan 14, 2009)

VIPER said:


> What company will be chosen to print the labels? Some relative with the nice congressman?  Since there are millions of labels to be done, all I can see here is another "legal" business to earn some "legal" money...



I would imagine it would just be added as a mandatory thing on the product packaging, say something like this:


----------



## hAKtivate (Jan 14, 2009)

The Witcher said:


> I'm sick of this, I really want to bitch slap these ignorant people who blame games because their children go and beat up other people or shoot them.



Someone has been playing too many video games.


----------



## VIPER (Jan 14, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> I would imagine it would just be added as a mandatory thing on the product packaging, say something like this:



Yes, maybe in a perfect world... Come on, there is always a catch like this... I have a lot of examples (at least in my country, but I am sure the examples are worldwide)...


----------



## farlex85 (Jan 14, 2009)

Although I am no proponent of censorship, it has been a pretty consistent finding in a number of different studies that modeling does indeed take place, and watching aggressive acts can lead to aggressive tendencies. Of course, this is only part of the equation, and you won't find actual researchers claiming school shootings are b/c of video games; temperament (which appears to be largely genetic) and mental stability and such of course play a big role. But it is an undeniable fact though that we are to some degree products of our environment. When that environment is violent, we can be as well. I'm all for the warning, I would much rather them slap that label there than try to control what is on the game. I'm all for education, I'm damn tired of control though (the public should be well-educated in sex, drugs, speeding, such, but should optimally not restricted from any of it is my current thoughts).


----------



## Random Murderer (Jan 14, 2009)

farlex85 said:


> Although I am no proponent of censorship, it has been a pretty consistent finding in a number of different studies that modeling does indeed take place, and watching aggressive acts can lead to aggressive tendencies. Of course, this is only part of the equation, and you won't find actual researchers claiming school shootings are b/c of video games; temperament (which appears to be largely genetic) and mental stability and such of course play a big role. But it is an undeniable fact though that we are to some degree products of our environment. When that environment is violent, we can be as well. I'm all for the warning, I would much rather them slap that label there than try to control what is on the game. I'm all for education, I'm damn tired of control though (the public should be well-educated in sex, drugs, speeding, such, but should optimally not restricted from any of it is my current thoughts).



the whole reason the esrb and other ratings boards were created was to put labels on these games saying what it contained and who its target audience should be. why do we need another label? if parents and retailers don't enforce what's already in place, then adding another label isn't going to help.


----------



## CStylen (Jan 14, 2009)

now I know who NOT to vote for...

This is just another baby step towards the US controlling what games can and cannot be sold here.  Just forget about people making decisions for themselves, the government will do it all for you...


----------



## farlex85 (Jan 14, 2009)

Random Murderer said:


> the whole reason the esrb and other ratings boards were created was to put labels on these games saying what it contained and who its target audience should be. why do we need another label? if parents and retailers don't enforce what's already in place, then adding another label isn't going to help.



True, it may be a bit gratuitous. I can see though just from the comments in this thread than many are unaware of the scientific research that has been done surrounding this, and the findings it has produced. If a label is needed to make those aware, that isn't necessarily a bad thing to me.



CStylen said:


> now I know who NOT to vote for...



Cause you didn't before.....


----------



## CStylen (Jan 14, 2009)

I understand how some parents aren't up on the current games, which may need a label, but when the guy on the box cover is holding a gun....might be a little suspicious.


----------



## Random Murderer (Jan 14, 2009)

farlex85 said:


> True, it may be a bit gratuitous. I can see though just from the comments in this thread than many are unaware of the scientific research that has been done surrounding this, and the findings it has produced. If a label is needed to make those aware, that isn't necessarily a bad thing to me.



i can see your point as well, but i am one of those aware of the research and i still think this is redundant and unneeded. the warning is already on the box in a black and white square with the esrb logo on it. people need to stop trying to add precautions and use what's already in place.
people should already be aware, and if they're not, just look at the box of the game/movie/album. if there's a person hanging out of the side of a car firing a gun(ala saint's row 2) there's a pretty good chance the game is violent. if that's not warning enough, look for the ratings board logos: esrb/pegi/grb classification, explicit content warning, or mpaa/bbfc/oflc rating. most of the time, it's on the FRONT of the case as well as the back.
people need to take responsibility for what their children/teens see and stop blaming everyone else.


----------



## farlex85 (Jan 14, 2009)

Random Murderer said:


> i can see your point as well, but i am one of those aware of the research and i still think this is redundant and unneeded. the warning is already on the box in a black and white square with the esrb logo on it. people need to stop trying to add precautions and use what's already in place.
> people should already be aware, and if they're not, just look at the box of the game/movie/album. if there's a person hanging out of the side of a car firing a gun(ala saint's row 2) there's a pretty good chance the game is violent. if that's not warning enough, look for the ratings board logos: esrb/pegi/grb classification, explicit content warning, or mpaa/bbfc/oflc rating. most of the time, it's on the FRONT of the case as well as the back.
> people need to take responsibility for what their children/teens see and stop blaming everyone else.



I agree with all of that for sure. I guess I should have said that it wouldn't bother me one bit if the label was there, but I don't think it's necessarily needed. It really is common sense too, as you are saying, parents shouldn't be shocked that a game with violence on the front of the box may inspire aggressive behavior to some degree. You have to spell it out for some though.....


----------



## Random Murderer (Jan 14, 2009)

farlex85 said:


> I agree with all of that for sure. I guess I should have said that it wouldn't bother me one bit if the label was there, but I don't think it's necessarily needed. It really is common sense too, as you are saying, parents shouldn't be shocked that a game with violence on the front of the box may inspire aggressive behavior to some degree. You have to spell it out for some though.....



people are stupid. period.
for example: there's a lawnmower called the "flymo." it has no wheels, it hovers. after the initial production run, there needed to be a warning and a new carburetor fitted. why? because some moron decided to trim his hedges with it. he lost grip and cut his friend's arm off.
honestly, sometimes i think we should just remove the warning labels from everything and let the problem solve itself.


----------



## farlex85 (Jan 14, 2009)

Random Murderer said:


> people are stupid. period.
> for example: there's a lawnmower called the "fly-mow." it has no wheels, it hovers. after the initial production run, there needed to be a warning and a new carburetor fitted. why? because some moron decided to trim his hedges with it. he lost grip and cut his friend's arm off.
> honestly, sometimes i think we should just remove the warning labels from everything and let the problem solve itself.



 I have no counter to that point. Sounds about right.


----------



## DrPepper (Jan 14, 2009)

Random Murderer said:


> people are stupid. period.
> for example: there's a lawnmower called the "flymo." it has no wheels, it hovers. after the initial production run, there needed to be a warning and a new carburetor fitted. why? because some moron decided to trim his hedges with it. he lost grip and cut his friend's arm off.
> honestly, sometimes i think we should just remove the warning labels from everything and let the problem solve itself.



I can't believe he lost control of a lawnmower.


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 14, 2009)

Not like the label will make a difference.

Put the label on all alcohol saying: "May cause excessive stupidity. Do not operate large machinery including a motor vehicle and construction equipment."

You still will most likely have massive amounts of drunk drivers murdering whole families on the US roadways. A label changes nothing.

For all children to get psychologically checked every few years is more important than limiting what they may play on a console. That way if a child is struggling with sanity you can help them. Videogames may be the only outlet for expressing psychotic behavior and keeping it in check for all we know.


----------



## thoughtdisorder (Jan 14, 2009)

As a parent myself, I tend to believe that yet another label is BS. As RM and Farlex have already discussed, there currently are ratings on these games. If they're not sufficient perhaps parents themselves need to start being held accountable for not paying attention to their children enough.

Too often in today's society it seems we point the finger at everything but what is _really_ the cause of problems. There is NO excuse for not knowing what your kids are watching, who they're hanging out with, etc. Make time to do this, period. 

The school system is the same way. The "under achievers" are typically the same students whose parents have never shown up for an open house and are not engaged in their child's school experience. These are typically the first parents that will stand up and shout out that the school system is not doing enough for their kids. Bullshit. 

Bottom line, pay attention parents or a thousand labels won't help. Rant over.


----------



## Thermopylae_480 (Jan 14, 2009)

It is the responsibility of the parents to be aware of what they are purchasing for their children, and purchase products that reflect their views on parenting.  The video game industry is not guilty of any wrongdoing and does not need to be legislated to and treated like a criminal.  If any irresponsibility is truly occurring it is on the parents side.


----------



## Thermopylae_480 (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm getting kind of tired of all this socialist nanny state crap.  People need to learn how to take responsibility for their own lives and mistakes without governments holding their hand.


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 14, 2009)

Censorship is usually BS.

But I still think Psych evals should be as common as physicals just to make sure nobody is losing their grip on reality to stop it before it gets too late. I think video games and movies have nothing to do with these conditions. If your child is crazy enough to kill people over a videogame, that child was crazy before playing the videogame.


----------



## farlex85 (Jan 14, 2009)

I saw an article in the paper the other day about a 17 year old kid who killed his parents allegedly for not allowing him to play Halo 3.


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 14, 2009)

farlex85 said:


> I saw an article in the paper the other day about a 17 year old kid who killed his parents allegedly for not allowing him to play Halo 3.



If he would have had a psych eval they probably would have stopped that ahead of time. 

And of course let him play Halo 3.


----------



## amd64skater (Jan 14, 2009)

it doesnt matter how many labels they put on video games. when i was waiting in line for gta4 kids were trying to get them and gamestop wouldnt let them get it. but on the other hand i saw parents standing in line with their 7 year old so they can get the game on release and the guys at the counter told them how violent the game was they didnt care. so labels dont matter what they should have done was arrest the parents that clearly bought the game for them for contributing to a minor and see how many parents kinda get the hint


----------



## Solaris17 (Jan 14, 2009)

lemonadesoda said:


> What on earth is all this whining about? They just put a label on it, a warning label.
> 
> You can still go out and buy the game. You can also choose not to read the label. What a lot of hot air about nothing.



Because it isnt just a label. its a bigger idea.....what happens if you take one cookie from the cookie jar? hm? you try to get another. what happens when youre 6 and you get sent to bed at 7:30 every night? after a year or 2 you beg for 8 or 8:30 it will start with a sticker and after that BS passes it will become easier and easier to pass more and more restrictive bills. If video games are ever going to get violent it will because of these same people trying hard so their not..the more restrictions the more pissed gamers will get.


----------



## The Witcher (Jan 14, 2009)

farlex85 said:


> I saw an article in the paper the other day about a 17 year old kid who killed his parents allegedly for not allowing him to play Halo 3.



Yeah, I remember that story, he killed his mom because they hid the Xbox (or halo 3) for a whole year and when he knew that his parents did that he decided to kill them.

He approached his parents and told them to close their eyes because he was going to give them a present, when they did that he pulled a pistol from the back of his pants and shot them point blank in the head, his mom fell dead right away then he putted the pistol in his father hand to make it as if the father did it and commit suicide but somehow the father survived the ordeal and told the police everything.

The bottom line is that the kid was a crazy teen, games didn't kill his mom, he did it.


----------



## crazy pyro (Jan 14, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> It may be a bit of a nanny state here in the UK, with all our Health and Safety BS, but at least we dont (yet) have any problems of games being banned.
> 
> Mind you I think everyone is in agreement, that what with the internet, if you want to play a banned game, you will, lol.



GTA Liberty city stories on the PSP got temporarily banned by the BBFC a few years ago I think, read something about it in the guardian tech section.
I'm disgusted at the possibility that games may begin being censored though, seems significantly like a dystopia to me, there's enough cr*p wrong with the UK as it is.
Ref Solaris' post, if you restrict something more and more people will be driven underground more and more, this will then lead to the violence in the games being greater and unregulated.
Honestly I believe you do benefit from playing games (well, online ones anyway) since you will undoubtedly join communities and become friends of sorts with people, hell I met Ben Clarke playing TF2 and I'm now hosting a podcast with him and another guy we met who's one of the community admins, I also wouldn't have even thought about buying my desktop if I hadn't needed some decent hardware to run games on, it's now opened up a bunch of possibilities for me like investigating linux and widening my knowledge of computers in general.


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 14, 2009)

This is going to go in a political direction if we don't control this thread early on...... mods??? Are we now allowed to go in a political direction?

Well, here we go again......

Patriot Acts 1 and 2 has already taken away much of our freedoms to begin with in the US. This democrat is clearly trying to appease the religous groups with this piece of legislation to earn him votes. Lets not make the same mistakes again with what we are allowed to buy aswell.

Both the republicans and the democrats should quit taking rights away and start giving them back. Both parties are to blame really. Patriot acts were made out of fear and abuse of power and the same with legislation on who can buy certain videogames. Its sad when special interest groups have our country in their pockets.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 14, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> Has their ever been a film that never made it to classification? wtf is the differnce?


There's a massive network for distributing X rated films while there is next to no network for distributing Ao rated games.  I know most stores refuse to carry either (Walmart, Gamestop, etc.).  There's only like 25 Ao games ever released and they are all on PC because Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo do not allow Ao games on their consoles.




newconroer said:


> And we'd probably be a better world because of it. Video games do nothing to further humans in any positive way.


They relieve stress which is what all good entertainment does.  Excessive stress has been proven to be extremely detrimental to health (causing everything from headaches and high blood pressure to heart attacks).




The Witcher said:


> Yeah, I remember that story, he killed his mom because they hid the Xbox (or halo 3) for a whole year and when he knew that his parents did that he decided to kill them.
> 
> He approached his parents and told them to close their eyes because he was going to give them a present, when they did that he pulled a pistol from the back of his pants and shot them point blank in the head, his mom fell dead right away then he putted the pistol in his father hand to make it as if the father did it and commit suicide but somehow the father survived the ordeal and told the police everything.
> 
> The bottom line is that the kid was a crazy teen, games didn't kill his mom, he did it.


Exactly.  He got pushed over the limit and burst.  I would bet on the fact that his parents are probably equally violent.  Monkey see, monkey do.




DaedalusHelios said:


> Patriot Acts 1 and 2 has already taken away much of our freedoms to begin with in the US. This democrat is clearly trying to appease the religous groups with this piece of legislation to earn him votes. Lets not make the same mistakes again with what we are allowed to buy aswell.
> 
> Both the republicans and the democrats should quit taking rights away and start giving them back. Both parties are to blame really. Patriot acts were made out of fear and abuse of power and the same with legislation on who can buy certain videogames. Its sad when special interest groups have our country in their pockets.


Don't have anyone call you from outside the country then as those are still the only communications they can legally intercept.  If they discover that it is an American that called out, they have to discontinue their activities.  As far as I'm concerned, the PATRIOT Act worked--we haven't been attacked again.  At least protecting citizens from foreign threats is actually a job the federal government has.  Yes, it could be done better but it has helped in keeping us (citizens) safe.


----------



## Random Murderer (Jan 15, 2009)

wow. these last two posts took a turn for the worst.
this has nothing to do with republicans, democrats, or the patriot acts, this rather has to do with people pointing the finger at everything but the real source of the problem. in the last two posts, you have become as bad as the politicians supporting this bill. rather than point the finger at the parents(the real source), they point it at the games.

EDIT:
in the US, we have freedom of press(which is what video games fall under), yet we still have rampant censorship. i do agree with not selling certain games to the young and impressionable, but censorship has gotten out of hand as of late. to not allow the game to be sold at all or to have certain content removed is against our bill of rights, and i feel like i'm the only one that realizes this.


----------



## Nelson2011 (Jan 15, 2009)

This made me lol


----------



## bassmasta (Jan 15, 2009)

makes me think back to MGS... "Snake!  if that kid bothers you again hit the X button to knock the crap out of him!"  at least counter strike doesn't let you set the iron sights... lol


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 15, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Don't have anyone call you from outside the country then as those are still the only communications they can legally intercept.  If they discover that it is an American that called out, they have to discontinue their activities.  As far as I'm concerned, the PATRIOT Act worked--we haven't been attacked again.  At least protecting citizens from foreign threats is actually a job the federal government has.  Yes, it could be done better but it has helped in keeping us (citizens) safe.



They are allowed to listen in on any phone calls and read all electronic data(emails and IM included) that they want, simply by calling it a "national security issue". Before the patriot act 1 it required a court order signed by a judge.

I started eating peanut butter and banana sandwiches since 9/11 and we haven't been attacked again yet. But it doesn't mean me doing so prevented another attack if you get the concept.


----------



## Triprift (Jan 15, 2009)

Thermopylae_480 said:


> I'm getting kind of tired of all this socialist nanny state crap.  People need to learn how to take responsibility for their own lives and mistakes without governments holding their hand.



I coudnt agree more its even worse here with the amount of games we get banned and the wonderful draconion net filter we got to look forward to some time this year.


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 15, 2009)

Triprift said:


> I coudnt agree more its even worse here with the amount of games we get banned and the wonderful draconion net filter we got to look forward to some time this year.



I was reading about that. Its scary filtering the net because people could take bribes to throttle connections to certain sites and make blackouts to others for political or financial gain.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 15, 2009)

DaedalusHelios said:


> They are allowed to listen in on any phone calls and read all electronic data(emails and IM included) that they want, simply by calling it a "national security issue". Before the patriot act 1 it required a court order signed by a judge.


So you trust the judges?  A lot of the judges I've seen are no better than those calling the shots in the first place.  So, what's the difference?  If you are subject to unlawful search and/or seizure, sue the government.  That's how it works.




Triprift said:


> I coudnt agree more its even worse here with the amount of games we get banned and the wonderful draconion net filter we got to look forward to some time this year.


Almost sounds as bad as China. :shadedshu


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 15, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> So you trust the judges?  A lot of the judges I've seen are no better than those calling the shots in the first place.  So, what's the difference?  If you are subject to unlawful search and/or seizure, sue the government.  That's how it works.



Judges are in their position for a reason. Being a judge is harder and comes under more scrutiny than the department of Homeland Security. There is an army of evidence to back that up. 

When you fear an outside threat you shouldn't hand over any freedoms to the people in charge because that is weak minded.

But this thread is about video games legislation. Fearing your children will do bad things when introduced to the stress of a simulated world really makes you wonder....... what will these same kids do under greater stress that we find in the real world?

Its the parents duty to make sure the child is mentally prepared to take on the real world. Most parents barely talk to their children so when serious issues come up a small percentage of kids freak out... its more than video games, its the real world that threatens them much more.


----------



## JC316 (Jan 15, 2009)

Wow, that is a crock. Until they PROVE that games can cause health issues, there is no way they should be allowed to do this.


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 15, 2009)

JC316 said:


> Wow, that is a crock. Until they PROVE that games can cause health issues, there is no way they should be allowed to do this.



I agree.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 15, 2009)

DaedalusHelios said:


> When you fear an outside threat you shouldn't hand over any freedoms to the people in charge because that is weak minded.


Often, if there is a threat, you find out about it hours before it happens (if you're lucky).  You don't have time to wait for a judge to approve it before you have to act.  The PATRIOT Act grants the ability to act but that doesn't mean they get immunity for their actions.  They may be called upon to answer to their decision should it be a poor one.  As such, we aren't handing over freedoms to anyone, we're just going to wait until after it happened to decide if it was a just or unjust decision.

This is one of those Democratic/Republican things.  Sorry I value my life more than being randomly checked for being a terrorist.  Just because I am an American doesn't mean I'm not a terrorist.  Considering the Supreme Court hasn't thrown it out as unconstitutional, look at it as a necessary evil.  We'll never agree on this issue.


----------



## Rebo&Zooty (Jan 15, 2009)

this guys name fits baca=baka=idiot

if violance in games=violance in real life then i been missing out on something, been playing violant games since computer/consol games first appeared and i have yet to shoot anybody.....ok ok, once but that was with a .22 pelet gun and he was being an ass.....

these people all need to be shiped someplace they can start a country to their standerds in other words, no violance, no sex, no obscene language/gestures/thoughts........


BAKA!!!!


----------



## crazy pyro (Jan 15, 2009)

That country would last what, twenty years and then they'd all be dead.


----------



## btarunr (Jan 15, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> They relieve stress which is what all good entertainment does.  Excessive stress has been proven to be extremely detrimental to health (causing everything from headaches and high blood pressure to heart attacks).



Depends. Those people who wake up to Counter-Strike, spend 3:00 in the morning on WoW aren't exactly stress-busting.


----------



## crazy pyro (Jan 15, 2009)

They're taking it too far sure but that doesn't mean that in smaller doses like an hour or two every night it's harmful.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 15, 2009)

Indeed.  Anything in excess is bad.  But hey, we got cheats and hacks to make those otherwise stressful games relaxing.   It's been a long time since I let a game frustrate me.  Knowledge is power.


----------



## Rebo&Zooty (Jan 15, 2009)

btarunr said:


> Depends. Those people who wake up to Counter-Strike, spend 3:00 in the morning on WoW aren't exactly stress-busting.



meh, but ppl that spend that many hours online dont get out much 

as to WoW and such, I was once addicted to UO(ultima online) would spend days at a time playing, but i learned on my own that there where/are better things to do, i still love the game itself, but dont play it anymore(enlarge because i cant play at 1600x1200) but i learned that i should spend no more then 2-3hrs online in any one game at any one time, became a happier person, tho i still binged a few times during server events!!

CS sucks, and anybody blaming CS for something stuipd/violant they did should be SHOT for being STUPID.

hey, if somebody stresses out over wow and goes into blizzard or vug headquarters and shoots the place up, i will feel sorry for the people that died, well unless they are execs, but thats the only way i could link violance dirrectly to wow.


----------



## btarunr (Jan 15, 2009)

Rebo&Zooty said:


> meh, but ppl that spend that many hours online dont get out much



That only validates my point. Games are counter-productive.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 15, 2009)

Just as counter-productive as watching TV too, huh?  Relieving stress is under appreciated in modern society; always work, work, work.  No wonder most are taken by heart failure.


----------



## Rebo&Zooty (Jan 15, 2009)

btarunr said:


> That only validates my point. Games are counter-productive.



so then this forum is really counter productive to isnt it, you arent producing anything when your posting.

and the way i see it, most of the ppl that get that kinda addicted to games are "the weakist links" and them not breeding=good for human race!!!!!


as to work work work, you look at the past, and till modern times people didnt work as hard as they do now, so what do you expect but stress and more problems for peoples health and stress and anger issues.

our whole society(western society) is screwed.......


----------



## Triprift (Jan 15, 2009)

btarunr said:


> That only validates my point. Games are counter-productive.



Yeah but they keep kids of the streets so they cant be that bad.


----------



## btarunr (Jan 15, 2009)

Rebo&Zooty said:


> so then this forum is really counter productive to isnt it, you arent producing anything when your posting.



Of course. If you're wasting your time, and not being productive with the information you gather from here, and being counterproductive to others, then yes, your being here is counterproductive. On the other hand, there are people who benefit from online communities and put collective expertise to good use. It's like watching news on TV.



Triprift said:


> Yeah but they keep kids of the streets so they cant be that bad.



Why, aren't kids supposed to stay outdoors, at the playground, and indulge in physical activities? Isn't that beneficial?


----------



## Triprift (Jan 15, 2009)

Lol im sticking up for games i play em you play em there great.


----------



## Binge (Jan 15, 2009)

Why don't televisions, guns, cigarettes, magazines, or cars have this warning on them?  All of these things have to do with mature content/growing up and should have a warning label the size of a small badger!



btarunr said:


> Why, aren't kids supposed to stay outdoors, at the playground, and indulge in physical activities? Isn't that beneficial?



That's where they are sold drugs. lol


----------



## btarunr (Jan 15, 2009)

Binge said:


> That's where they are sold drugs. lol



Live with it. If kids get drugs outdoors, they get porn indoors....using the same logic.


----------



## Rebo&Zooty (Jan 15, 2009)

btarunr, over here its more common then u think drugs, perverts, on and on, in my area its pretty safe but go 20miles away and i wouldnt let a kid outside to play, or even take the garbage out, its just not safe......sad but true, maby you dont have those problems in india, IDK but its pretty screwed up some places.

just the other day there was a news story about some guy getting  kids hooked on drugs then having sex with them when they came back feening for more.....sick shit, and when i say kids, i mean KIDS.......WTF.......thank god i live in a small town where that stuffs not common but still, it was within the distance tv news covers as local.........creapy fuckers in this world 

EDIT: porn IMHO isnt that big a thing, i know some cultures and many other americans would dissagree but, to me porn is just not that big an issue, the human body isnt something that people should fear seeing(unless its mine in a speedo!!!) and sex isnt something to be ashamed of........not saying i promote kids watching porn, but i sure as hell dont think its as big a deal as drugs, gangs and perverts!!!


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 15, 2009)

In India its much worse.  Thats why its called third world.

Sex slavery and kids having sex in the back alley streets in some areas. Does nobody read National Geographic here? lol

Drug addiction is pretty bad too. The poorest people simply starve to death on the streets.

btarunr is part of the most powerful bracket of Indian society. So thats not how he lives of course. He is basically are doctor although I don't know if its official yet. So obviously his intellect alone prevents him from having to worry that much.


----------



## btarunr (Jan 15, 2009)

DaedalusHelios said:


> In India its much worse.  Thats why its called third world.
> 
> Sex slavery and kids having sex in the streets. Does nobody read national Geographic here? lol
> 
> Drug addiction is pretty bad too. The poorest people simply starve to death on the streets.



If that's not sarcasm, which I hope it is, you got it wrong.


----------



## DaedalusHelios (Jan 15, 2009)

btarunr said:


> If that's not sarcasm, which I hope it is, you got it wrong.



Maybe in your city but the things we read about India says the poorest parts has those problems. The heterosexual aids epidemic propagates through the teenage populous very quickly in India. *Edit* Apparently its only a real problem in: "Four southern states (Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka) account for around 63% of all people living with HIV in India."

A friend of mine that runs a business in my city told me about what the laborers would have to eat to get by. If you are in the bottom caste of Indian society and don't decide to work you starve to death. Unless these Indian immigrants were mistaken? 

Every source of info on aids in India basically states that:  "The statistics presented in these tables refer to reported AIDS cases. These are a poor guide to the severity of the epidemic as in many situations a patient will die without HIV having been diagnosed, and with the death attributed to an opportunistic infection, such as tuberculosis."



I just think we should all realize that every country on this earth has serious problems and hopefully we will all find the courage to deal with them and make the world a better place. Putting another label on video game boxes will not help to make children less violent.


----------



## btarunr (Jan 15, 2009)

DaedalusHelios said:


> Maybe in your city but the things we read about India says the poorest parts has those problems. The heterosexual aids epidemic propagates through the teenage populous very quickly in India. *Edit* Apparently its only a real problem in: "Four southern states (Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka) account for around 63% of all people living with HIV in India."
> 
> A friend of mine that runs a business in my city told me about what the laborers would have to eat to get by. If you are in the bottom caste of Indian society and don't decide to work you starve to death. Unless these Indian immigrants were mistaken?



Because that's what your media and source find "district" about India and try to exaggerate/magnify in their work, so as to let the "distinctive" nature of the news/article/essay sell better. 

Yes, what you are talking about does exist even today but is at a far lesser scale than what you're made to believe by your media, that includes NG. The scale of the poverty you know of, existed during the 80s and before, when the leaders were too doped with socialism. Evidently socialism doesn't work everywhere, and in every case. Capitalism was eventually the way to go, and it has done the repair work for some of the most downtrodden sections of the society. Honestly, you don't see  people dying on the streets, the sex trade is no where even close to anything you see in the rest of south Asia (Thailand/Vietnam, etc), the southern states of which you find as a source of a so called "real" problem contribute the most the country's economy.  Yes, indeed they contribute the most to the country's HIV stats, but that's very much related to the region's population density. Use NACO for your stats: http://www.nacoonline.org/NACO/

That being said, it puzzles me as to why this HIV debate came up, and what India has to do with any of it. Return to topic.


----------



## pentastar111 (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes that is puzzling...How it went from some goofy Ca. politician to HIV is amazing, although if one were to make a comparison between douchebag politicians and diseases, I don't think you find much difference...


----------



## Rebo&Zooty (Jan 16, 2009)

back on track people(you to bta)


----------

