# 5800x Limiting maximum boost Frequency, undervolting with PBO



## panini (Nov 15, 2021)

Was tempted to react to one of the many existing 5800x undervolting/overclocking/PBO guides or discussions but I have not seen this question before:
Is it currently possible to set a limit to PBO's maximum boost frequency? A manual negative frequency offset if you will?

My 'issue' is the following: when using PBO, with curve optimizer set manually, tested and everything, with PPT110, TDC75 and EDC95, in mixed-load usage (gaming, opening 20 new tabs/opening the browser, using CAD) the CPU will try to perform a temporary boost to 4.8, sometimes even 4.85Ghz, with an SoC SV12 voltage of 1.425-1.45, causing temps to go higher (to 85-89 celsius) than in the cinebench all core synthetic load where it will settle at 4.55-4.6Ghz @ ~1.38V. This results in an average CR20 score of roughly 6000, CR23 of around 15k, staying below 76 degrees. I realize these voltages are the maximum read values but I am no voltage expert, even with a polling period of 100ms on HWinfo the 1.38V seems to be relatively constant.

Disabling '_core performance boost_' in the bios stops PBO from working, I suspect there is no workaround for this? To my knowledge they are not the same? It stops the processor from 'boosting' above 3.8Ghz, PPT never hits >70W and CR20 reaches an average of ~4800.

Hard locking the voltage and frequency ratio to 1.275 and 44x would be fine if it weren't for the high idle wattage that is a result of that.
Is it possible to have all the good things? My aim is to limit the maximum boost frequency to 4.6Ghz.
Am using Asus X570i, latest bios, EKWB 240 AIO. Maybe @Mussels  can help, as he has an Asus motherboard and I saw him mentioning the boost behaviour to 4.8+Ghz while gaming.


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## The King (Nov 15, 2021)

I am able to adjust max boost and Vcore with Zenstate along with not have continous/locked vcore voltages. When not underload the voltages and clock speeds go down.
I am not sure how the software will work on Zen 3 but if it does you should be able to get some higher boosts clocks with lower temps at idle.

Ok, nevermind looks like there is no Zen 3 support.  








						ZenStates
					

ZenStates is a software which provides essential overclock controls for AMD Ryzen processors.




					zenstates.protonrom.com
				





> Support for Zen, Zen+ and Zen2
> Redesign Settings and add Auto and Manual OC panels
> Add SMU version detection
> Fix performance bias options


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 15, 2021)

panini said:


> SoC SV12 voltage of 1.425-1.45


I think you meant core voltage. SOC to 1.45V would kill your CPU in a matter of days.

Your issue is cooling. I find it hard to believe that a 240mm AIO can't cool a 100W CPU. AIOs are supposed to be pretty good at handling bursty temp spikes so I'm not sure what's going on in your case. Maybe there's a contact issue? Fans not spinning fast enough?

In any case, you can simply disable PBO in the UEFI. Way more reliable than software.


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## panini (Nov 15, 2021)

@The King I had indeed looked at ZenStates, but no luck for Zen3. CTR allowed me to tweak things for the better but it leads to system-wide stutters, I cannot figure out why, might have something to do with the polling.

@rares495 my bad, it is indeed the CPU core voltage SV12.
Disabling PBO still results in the high frequency but at a higher wattage (goes up to 134W) and voltage if core performance boost is enabled, two cores hit 5.05Ghz then. The fan curve I have set in Argus:
There is no delay. I first had the fan speed react to a 10-second average but that caused the temps to go up even more, obviously.






It is optimized for noise-acceptable temps


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 15, 2021)

panini said:


> @The King I had indeed looked at ZenStates, but no luck for Zen3. CTR allowed me to tweak things for the better but it leads to system-wide stutters, I cannot figure out why, might have something to do with the polling.
> 
> @rares495 my bad, it is indeed the CPU core voltage SV12.
> Disabling PBO still results in the high frequency but at a higher wattage (goes up to 134W) and voltage if core performance boost is enabled. The fan curve I have set in Argus:
> ...


Do me a favor and add your PC specs: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/account/specs

Can you do a Cinebench R20 run with auto core performance boost and auto PBO? Then post the package power and temps here.


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## blu3dragon (Nov 15, 2021)

With regards to your issue, is your concern the voltages or the temps?
For temps, you can set a temp limit in PBO that is lower than the stock 90F, although as mentioned above it may be worth checking our cooler mount first.
I don't know of a good way to directly limit voltage below the AMD spec without disabling PBO and setting it manually.
In either case, I'm not sure this is something to worry about unless you are running your cpu at its limits 24/7.


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## HD64G (Nov 15, 2021)

panini said:


> @The King I had indeed looked at ZenStates, but no luck for Zen3. CTR allowed me to tweak things for the better but it leads to system-wide stutters, I cannot figure out why, might have something to do with the polling.
> 
> @rares495 my bad, it is indeed the CPU core voltage SV12.
> Disabling PBO still results in the high frequency but at a higher wattage (goes up to 134W) and voltage if core performance boost is enabled, two cores hit 5.05Ghz then. The fan curve I have set in Argus:
> ...


Just disable PBO. It will boost close to the limit before disabling it for single-core but will clock lower for heavy multithreading loads and will get lower temps too.


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## panini (Nov 15, 2021)

blu3dragon said:


> With regards to your issue, is your concern the voltages or the temps?
> For temps, you can set a temp limit in PBO that is lower than the stock 90F, although as mentioned above it may be worth checking our cooler mount first.
> I don't know of a good way to directly limit voltage below the AMD spec without disabling PBO and setting it manually.
> In either case, I'm not sure this is something to worry about unless you are running your cpu at its limits 24/7.


My concerns are the stutters that (presumably) arrive from the unnecessary boosting in mixed load programs. I dare not to conclude anything from these figures, nor can I say something about the voltages, to be fair. The temps and noise are third order problems.

@HD64G I think the 'core performance boost' is the culprit. Disabling PBO does not have an effect if 'core performance boost remains on'
@blu3dragon with regards to the cooler: I replaced the thermal paste a week ago.
I know this should be done in CR23 and then even multiple runs to get the average but this is similar to previous results with these 'stock' settings (as in, Asus ships the Bios with this).

I just noticed Argus is monitoring 'CPU' and not 'CPU CCD1', and the fan curve for the raditors is reacting to CPU. CCD1 temps are much lower than the package (obviously) but according to Argus it tops out at 85, while in the log file it tops out at ~76. Any thoughts on that?











Put the results in a log then graph'd them. @rares495 

@HD64G reran CR20 and disabled the three options that allow PBO to be enabled in the BIOS.







Voltage is a bit different, not much else?
The PBO Fmax Enhancer is still on Auto but if PBO is turned off, I suspect this does nothing.


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## blu3dragon (Nov 15, 2021)

I just did a quick run for comparison.  I have PBO on (EDIT actually PBO is off for below run - this is the stock power limits).  Your temps are a little higher than mine, but otherwise it looks pretty similar.  If I run a few more loops it will peak closer to 85C.







panini said:


> The PBO Fmax Enhancer is still on Auto but if PBO is turned off, I suspect this does nothing.


I don't know if auto is enabled or disabled, but at least for Zen3, PBO Fmax Enhancer should always be disabled.  I have tried a few times enabling this and although it increases clock speeds, it lowers effective clock speeds resulting in more heat and worse performance.


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 16, 2021)

@panini The 5800X is notoriously hot but 140W in CB is insane for a Zen 3 8-core CPU. That's what my 5900X pulls in Cinebench R20 with everything on Auto. Yes, my motherboard is insane and allows for crazy boosting and yes, it's a better bin but it's still 50% more CPU. No wonder your cooler is struggling a bit. We need to get this package power down to 100W or so. If Auto everything isn't the solution, maybe let's try Disabled everything. I really want to see the 5800X run within stock limits.

@blu3dragon Please tell me which cooler and case you own.


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## Taraquin (Nov 16, 2021)

Best approach, use OBO +0 and max out CO, also set temp limit, also a PPT limit should help. Something seems off though, on my weak cooler my 5600X +200 pbo and -30x4/-29x2 never exceeds 75C at MB limits (84W). For small 4.85 bursts it stops at 70C.


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## panini (Nov 16, 2021)

rares495 said:


> @panini The 5800X is notoriously hot but 140W in CB is insane for a Zen 3 8-core CPU. That's what my 5900X pulls in Cinebench R20 with everything on Auto. Yes, my motherboard is insane and allows for crazy boosting and yes, it's a better bin but it's still 50% more CPU. No wonder your cooler is struggling a bit. We need to get this package power down to 100W or so. If Auto everything isn't the solution, maybe let's try Disabled everything. I really want to see the 5800X run within stock limits.
> 
> @blu3dragon Please tell me which cooler and case you own.


Disabling all boosting options, stock 5800x runs at 3.8Ghz max, drawing 70W. Like I mentioned, this results in a CR20 score of ~4800. This solves the stuttering issues while gaming but it in heavier workloads, like rendering or benchmarking, there is a 15-20% performance loss if everything scales well.  Now, 50% less power on full utilisation is impressive, certainly given the idle wattage is halved (and most PC's are closer to idle wattage than maximum power draw for most of their lifetime), but I am leaving 'free' performance there.

For all of you, I am running this in a 13L enclosure but I suspect the high temps are mainly due to high voltage and high wattage.
@Taraquin I had a 5600x in my exact setup before and it never hit 70 even when overclocked to its fullest potential. Though, that 5600x was bronze sample and this 5800x is golden sample. By OBO you mean PBO or the Override Boost allowance? If the latter, I have never had that option on anything higher than +0, I believe I am looking for an option to make that -200, which is nonexistant.

I will now try to see if (un)installing the AMD chipsets has an effect on wattage draw when all boosting options are disabled, as currently the chipset drivers are uninstalled (they made my mouse freeze/glitch out...).

I will also log typical boosting behavior with PBO manually regulated (advanced, Curve Optimizer set) under advanced (extreme tweaker in the more high-end Asus motherboards, I believe) for some games, rendering and CAD.

Report incoming


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 16, 2021)

panini said:


> Disabling all boosting options, stock 5800x runs at 3.8Ghz max, drawing 70W. Like I mentioned, this results in a CR20 score of ~4800. This solves the stuttering issues while gaming but it in heavier workloads, like rendering or benchmarking, there is a 15-20% performance loss if everything scales well.  Now, 50% less power on full utilisation is impressive, certainly given the idle wattage is halved (and most PC's are closer to idle wattage than maximum power draw for most of their lifetime), but I am leaving 'free' performance there.
> 
> For all of you, I am running this in a 13L enclosure but I suspect the high temps are mainly due to high voltage and high wattage.
> @Taraquin I had a 5600x in my exact setup before and it never hit 70 even when overclocked to its fullest potential. Though, that 5600x was bronze sample and this 5800x is golden sample. By OBO you mean PBO or the Override Boost allowance? If the latter, I have never had that option on anything higher than +0, I believe I am looking for an option to make that -200, which is nonexistant.
> ...


We need to find a middle ground between the stock 70W and the ridiculous 140W that the CPU pulls. Your motherboard is very weird because normally having everything set to Auto would result in decent performance at decent power, not in pushing the CPU to its max.


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## panini (Nov 16, 2021)

rares495 said:


> We need to find a middle ground between the stock 70W and the ridiculous 140W that the CPU pulls. Your motherboard is very weird because normally having everything set to Auto would result in decent performance at decent power, not in pushing the CPU to its max.


I'll short the cmos jumpers to see if it makes a difference compared to loading default optimized settings, though it shouldn't?


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## HD64G (Nov 16, 2021)

My bad! You (OP) just need to change the auto setting of power limit and adjust it to a lower one. Me thinks that once you limit the CPU at 95W you will lose 5% performance for multithreading loads and none for single threaded while lowering temps of full loading by at least 10C. That happens to my 2600X when going from auto (128W) to 95W. Core Performance Boost is needed to be enabled btw.


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## blu3dragon (Nov 16, 2021)

panini said:


> I'll short the cmos jumpers to see if it makes a difference compared to loading default optimized settings, though it shouldn't?



I don't think this will help.  Your CPU is already running at the stock power limit of 142W PPT in the 2nd HWinfo shot you posted.  The 5800x runs hot by default since it has the same power limit (142W PPT) as a 5900 or 5950x, but those CPUs have 2 CCDs to spread the heat out over.  You also can't compare temps of a 5800x to a 5600x with a stock limit of 88W.

If you want to lower temps, you can simply set a lower temp limit in your PBO settings, or go down the path of lowering PPT, EDC and TDC, which will achieve the same thing for more effort.

However, I don't think any of this should cause or fix stuttering in games.  My guess is that there is something else going on there since most games won't run close to the power or temp limits.



rares495 said:


> @panini The 5800X is notoriously hot but 140W in CB is insane for a Zen 3 8-core CPU. That's what my 5900X pulls in Cinebench R20 with everything on Auto.
> 
> @blu3dragon Please tell me which cooler and case you own.



5800x has the same stock power limit as a 5900x, so it will try to pull the same until it hits a temp or voltage limit ;-)

I'm using an Arctic freezer II 240, in a large case with a bunch of fans.  The AIO is at the top of the case exhausting out, so not the most optimal spot, but as long as room temps are reasonable the internal case temp stays at ~25C.


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## panini (Nov 16, 2021)

blu3dragon said:


> I don't think this will help.  Your CPU is already running at the stock power limit of 142W PPT in the 2nd HWinfo shot you posted.  The 5800x runs hot by default since it has the same power limit (142W PPT) as a 5900 or 5950x, but those CPUs have 2 CCDs to spread the heat out over.  You also can't compare temps of a 5800x to a 5600x with a stock limit of 88W.
> 
> If you want to lower temps, you can simply set a lower temp limit in your PBO settings, or go down the path of lowering PPT, EDC and TDC, which will achieve the same thing for more effort.
> 
> However, I don't think any of this should cause or fix stuttering in games.  My guess is that there is something else going on there since most games won't run close to the power or temp limits.


I am aware of this, I was responding to Taraquin regarding the CCD/5600x. I have even went as far as to try a complete fresh windows install on a different drive to check if it is software related, but no, CB and games behave the same, even if I have fan curves set through the BIOS, making me think it was hardware related. I have since upgraded to the 5800x, swapped out my PSU, RMA'd my GPU and run my pc with and without a gpu riser. CPU behaviour stays the same regardless of these changes, since the upgrade, making me think it is the BIOS.
@HD64G will try it right now. I assume this is changed under AMD overclocking PBO and not in the AI tweaker menu (given that you know what that is, I see you have an MSI mobo)?


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## blu3dragon (Nov 16, 2021)

panini said:


> I have since upgraded to the 5800x, swapped out my PSU, RMA'd my GPU and run my pc with and without a gpu riser. CPU behaviour stays the same regardless of these changes, since the upgrade, making me think it is the BIOS.


Ouch.  Sorry to hear this is causing you so much trouble.  Maybe we should look at HWinfo in the game(s) you are having trouble with?  Presumably you have tried the latest bios and AMD chipset driver.  Have you run any memory stability tests?  (btw I'm still in the camp of CB behavior looks correct, so it's really the stuttering in games we should debug).



panini said:


> will try it right now. I assume this is changed under AMD overclocking PBO and not in the AI tweaker menu (given that you know what that is, I see you have an MSI mobo)?


In my ASUS B550-F, I need to set the Asus AI tweaker PBO settings to Auto, and then in the AMD overclocking PBO menu I can set power limits to Manual and enter limits there.  If you leave the Asus PBO option Enabled, it will override the settings in the AMD menu.


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## The King (Nov 16, 2021)

der8auer did some testing with 5800X maybe useful to look at voltages and temps.


Spoiler: 4152 hours of Ryzen Long Term Testing: We have Good and Bad News


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## HD64G (Nov 16, 2021)

panini said:


> I am aware of this, I was responding to Taraquin regarding the CCD/5600x. I have even went as far as to try a complete fresh windows install on a different drive to check if it is software related, but no, CB and games behave the same, even if I have fan curves set through the BIOS, making me think it was hardware related. I have since upgraded to the 5800x, swapped out my PSU, RMA'd my GPU and run my pc with and without a gpu riser. CPU behaviour stays the same regardless of these changes, since the upgrade, making me think it is the BIOS.
> @HD64G will try it right now. I assume this is changed under AMD overclocking PBO and not in the AI tweaker menu (given that you know what that is, I see you have an MSI mobo)?


Check the screenshot of my UEFI below in case it helps you find the setting I posted about previously. Configurable power limit makes it very easy for anyone to bring the CPU under control.


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## DemonicRyzen666 (Nov 16, 2021)

panini said:


> Disabling all boosting options, stock 5800x runs at 3.8Ghz max, drawing 70W. Like I mentioned, this results in a CR20 score of ~4800. This solves the stuttering issues while gaming but it in heavier workloads, like rendering or benchmarking, there is a 15-20% performance loss if everything scales well.  Now, 50% less power on full utilisation is impressive, certainly given the idle wattage is halved (and most PC's are closer to idle wattage than maximum power draw for most of their lifetime), but I am leaving 'free' performance there.
> 
> For all of you, I am running this in a 13L enclosure but I suspect the high temps are mainly due to high voltage and high wattage.
> @Taraquin I had a 5600x in my exact setup before and it never hit 70 even when overclocked to its fullest potential. Though, that* 5600x was bronze sample and this 5800x is golden sample*. By OBO you mean PBO or the Override Boost allowance? If the latter, I have never had that option on anything higher than +0, I believe I am looking for an option to make that -200, which is nonexistant.
> ...


what did your 5600x do? cause mine is supposedly a golden sample that will 4,750mhz with 1.375 volts on all core static overclock. no I don't use it, but I know it can do it.
I honestly Have around the same temps you do with Avx on in prime95 with a 5600x! up to 77-80C depending on the ambient temperature.
I have pbo on but only for the 4850mhz single thread.


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## panini (Nov 16, 2021)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> what did your 5600x do? cause mine is supposedly a golden sample that will 4,750mhz with 1.375 volts on all core static overclock. no I don't use it, but I know it can do it.
> I honestly Have around the same temps you do with Avx on in prime95 with a 5600x! up to 77-80C depending on the ambient temperature.
> I have pbo on but only for the 4850mhz single thread.


I think it did 4.45Ghz all cores around that voltage, stable. I do have a couple of screenshots but cannot find them. Could have been 4.55Ghz as well, though I had it mostly dialed in for temps to remain below 75C even while rendering. PPT was 75

Limiting PPT to 95w of course did wonders to the temperature, but not for stability per se.
@HD64G I tried multiple things now, time for a little update:

PBO enabled *without *curve optimizer makes Battlefield V crash. CPU Core reaches 1.496 volts with temps below 78 in-game. CR20 score is ~*5700*, temps below 75.
PBO enabled *with *curve optimizer makes Battlefield V crash. CPU Core reaches 1.494 volts. CR20 is ~*5600*. For both, temps remain below 70 (!).
PBO enabled with manual voltage set to 1.275. Battlefield V does not crash. CR20 is ~*4000*. For both, temps remain below 70.

I have to say these temps were partly _that _low because I turned off the heat a couple of hours ago, so ambient is around ~17 celsius, instead of the normal 20-21 when the heat is on.
CPU core current maxed at 66A for all three of these.
I will do logs tomorrow on a more mixed workload, though I do not know what would be giving useful information.

@The King Thanks for the video, I was not aware it came in to existence two days ago.
@blu3dragon will make sure to run some mem-tests as well.
see you guys in 24 hours.


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## blu3dragon (Nov 16, 2021)

panini said:


> I think it did 4.45Ghz all cores around that voltage, stable. I do have a couple of screenshots but cannot find them. Could have been 4.55Ghz as well, though I had it mostly dialed in for temps to remain below 75C even while rendering. PPT was 75
> 
> Limiting PPT to 95w of course did wonders to the temperature, but not for stability per se.
> @HD64G I tried multiple things now, time for a little update:
> ...



Good info.  Does BFV crash when PBO is disabled?
I guess when you lower the voltage it is not crashing as the low voltage is preventing the CPU from reaching higher boost clocks.  It is unusual that it crashes just from enabling PBO, but it is possible if the curve offsets are not high enough.
The other cause might be FLCK or memory related.  What is your memory and FLCK currently set to?

Couple of suggestions:

Run some memory and FLCK stability tests.  Quickest way to find these in my experience:
Memory: TestMem5 (tm5) with the 1usmus_v3.cfg
FCLK: y-cruncher test #16 N64 - Classic NTT (64-bit) while running HWInfo to monitor for WHEA errors.

Use p95 and a script to test each core individually for stability, and set the core offsets accordingly.
Quick(ish) test script: https://www.overclock.net/threads/s...script-for-zen-3-curve-offset-tuning.1777112/
More thorough test script: https://www.overclock.net/threads/corecycler-tool-for-testing-curve-optimizer-settings.1777398/

With PBO enabled and/or FLCK tuned, you might need to set a positive offset for some cores.
If your cpu passes above tests, but *still* crashes in BFV, then I guess you need to look at your GPU or power supply again.


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## panini (Nov 17, 2021)

blu3dragon said:


> Good info.  Does BFV crash when PBO is disabled?
> I guess when you lower the voltage it is not crashing as the low voltage is preventing the CPU from reaching higher boost clocks.  It is unusual that it crashes just from enabling PBO, but it is possible if the curve offsets are not high enough.
> The other cause might be FLCK or memory related.  What is your memory and FLCK currently set to?
> 
> ...


*Long post warning.*
BF V does not crash when PBO _and_ Core Performance boost are disabled.

DOCP turned on, with FCLK on Auto



_These tests below are done with the Curve Optimizer disabled, PBO enabled, 95PPT. Stock voltage regulation I would say._
1. TestMem5 with 1usmus_v3.cfg is stable, 6 cycles done (30 minutes roughly).
*2.* Y-cruncher passed NTT 64 bit, *but* the entire pc froze then rebooted while running *Hybrid NTT* (the one after Classic NTT 64).
The following part was logged, though I suspect the part where it crashed is not in the graphs.
Upon boot, a new WHEA error was logged



I have made a custom event logger for WHEA, so I know to run two cores at a minimal undervolt (not enabled in these tests, after the line the tests had these two cores at +/-0.
Also, this error at the time of crashing:



Ryzen Master is not installed, but was used by CTR before (comes with it). CTR is now not running nor did I activate its profiles.



Weird behavior on some of the cores clocking down all the way?. I think this is from SFT - Small In-Cache FFT, then Classic NTT and then it did no save the log file any further. I am 100% certain it finished Classic NTT 64 on that run.


_Now, for the next thing, _with Curve Optimizer _optimized_, the following happened:
Y-Cruncher did _not_ crash on Classic NTT nor HNT. 
Therefore, the problem seems voltage related (I think it is safe to state that).
This is supported by the monitoring of the y-cruncher test I fully monitored. Look at Core 0 VID. The log stops here when Classic NTT 64 was done.




Amidst all of this I find it very weird that Core 0 only seems to have 1 thread (T1) and not two, like the other cores. 

The following graphs are from Battlefield V, from Boot to joining a match (multiplayer, 64 players, capped at monitor refresh rate@165fps, Ultra settings), to immediately crashing before loading the map.
It crashed around the 1 minute mark.



On the second try, it did not crash (it's like the system is warmed up...). For this and the test after this I changed the polling rate to 100ms to monitor stuttering.




Now onto Prime95:
Only here, two of the cores that were on a -20 step Curve Optimizer offset were failing the script from the first link you sent. 
Strangely enough, also a core that is on a -/+0 step failed. 
In addition to that, it also completely shut down the system after it froze. 
I will try lowering the step values tomorrow, rerunning the same script.



Like with Battlefield and y-cruncher crashing the system, HWInfo does not show the data of right before it crashed.
I will go to bed now, more confused than yesterday.
-
Windows memory diagnostic tools doesn't report any failures.


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## The King (Nov 18, 2021)

Just want to chip again in regards to stuttering in games.

You can try disabling free-sync even anti lag etc has that solved many stutter issues for some.
Also the new AMD drivers have CPU tuning mode. Wont hurt to make sure your GPU drivers are
not causing issues by doing a clean install and removing all your current profiles.


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## blu3dragon (Nov 18, 2021)

@panini Nice work with all the testing and sharing results.  I think you have the next step correct.  It looks like there is some instability with the cpu.
I would try raising the curve offset by +5 on each core that failed, i.e:

core that was on -20 and failed -> set to -15
core that was on -/+0 and failed -> set to +5
And then re-run the same script.  Repeat as needed and then if you can get this script to pass you can try y-cruncher and BFV again...  I have one of my cores on +10 which is a little disappointing, but barely affects performance at the end of the day.


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## Taraquin (Nov 18, 2021)

Can you post your zentimings? I'm curious about soc voltage etc. I've heard of a few who need pos offset in CO since one core is really bad. Run corecycler? How was temps after 95W PPT set? 

My suggestions would be to reduce voltages on soc, ccd etc if possible, that can lower temps (for instance just raising soc from 1.06v to 1.1v increases pwr consumption alone by 2W, many MBs run soc at 1.2v, ccd and iod at 1v and vddp at 1.1v, for 3800 ram 1.1v soc, 1.05v iod and 0.9v ccd/vddp is usually enough, this can increase consumption by 10W if run stock) , run corecycler and find the best offsets for all cores.


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## panini (Nov 18, 2021)

@The King I think that over the past 3 months I have tried every possible driver release, driver combination and fresh install.
Another Battlefield V run where I tried monitoring the stuttering is attached below.
Prime95, running the same script @blu3dragon mentioned, reports two cores still failing even if they are on +/-0. Can the offset be _too low_ compared to the rest? I don't think I should set a positive curve? That would only increase voltage and therefore temperature?
Despite the majority of the cores still being managed by the curve optimizer, voltage hit 1.45-1.475V on _all cores _when single cores are tested (individually) in the script, seemingly neglecting the curve optimizer.

@Taraquin with Core Performance Boost enabled, CoreCycler runs good. I have yet to test PBO enabled with Curve Optimizer.

D.O.C.P. enabled for images directly below.






With the script recommended by blu3dragon:
*1. *Prime95 with Core Performance Boost *enabled*, D.O.C.P. enabled, PBO *enabled *with Curve Optimizer 0, -5, 0, -15, -15, 0, -15, -15 :
Core 1 & 3 (so the second and fourth in the row above) keep failing.
High voltage shown. The system has frozen and shut down on multiple occasions, even under low workloads, when P95 is not running.

*2.* Prime95 with Core Performance Boost *enabled*, D.O.C.P. *enabled*, PBO *disabled*
High voltages (obviously), freezes and crashes.

*3. *Prime95 with Core Performance Boost *disabled*, D.O.C.P. *enabled*, PBO *enabled *with Curve Optimizer disabled:
According to the per core stability P95 script log, no cores fail, *BUT system froze and shut down*. Highest voltage on a single core 1.025. Max clock 3.8Ghz.

*4. *Prime95 with Core Performance Boost *disabled*, D.O.C.P. *disabled*, PBO *disabled.*
No freezes, no system crashes.
Battlefield V crashes everytime I try to join a server.


****EDIT*: I moved Battlefield V from my samsung 980 pro to my 970 evo. No more crashes, but stutters proceed to happen. It all feels so random.
I now start to doubt whether or not the BF V crashes have anything to do with CPB, D.O.C.P., PBO or the curve optimizer. Time for some more tests it seems....****

I do not know for sure that we can conclude the system freezes then shuts down/reboots because of Prime95 or if it is something else.
The freeze and shutdown have happened with regular programs running for both settings 1. and 3.*

For Core Performance Boost *enabled*, Apex Legends has stutters but does not crash, nor does it freeze the system. The Witcher 3 has stutters but does not crash, nor does it freeze the system.


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## blu3dragon (Nov 18, 2021)

panini said:


> Prime95, running the same script @blu3dragon mentioned, reports two cores still failing even if they are on +/-0. Can the offset be _too low_ compared to the rest? I don't think I should set a positive curve? That would only increase voltage and therefore temperature?


If a core is failing on the prime95 test, you normally want to raise the voltage (so increase the offset) to help with stability.  It will raise the temp a little, but at the same time it will be more stable, and the cpu will automatically lower the clock if needed to stay within temp and current limits.  So, yes, if a core is failing on +/-0 I would try to set a positive offset and see if it helps.  Your voltages for SoC, etc in Zen timings all look good and are at the stock values which should work fine for DDR4-3200 and FLCK 1600.

For comparison, here's what I have my 5800x set to for 24/7 stability.  Later bios versions have not affected these settings.

5800x, Asus B550-F, 1805 BiosCore#perfCurve offsetLLC set to Auto03/4-15CPU switching frequency set to 300kHz (not sure if this helps)14/5-15PBO set to motherboard25/6-10PBO boost override to 0.31/110PBO Scaler to 2x.47/8-3056/7-2061/2372/3-5



panini said:


> Despite the majority of the cores still being managed by the curve optimizer, voltage hit 1.45-1.475V on _all cores _when single cores are tested (individually) in the script, seemingly neglecting the curve optimizer.


This is normal.  The actual voltage supplied to the cpu is based on the highest requested voltage from all cores and other parts of the chip.  Single core workloads get the highest clocks and voltages.  Stock AMD will run up to 1.5V.  So, don't worry about these voltages being too high when the cpu is under low load or a single core workload.



panini said:


> *2.* Prime95 with Core Performance Boost *enabled*, D.O.C.P. *enabled*, PBO *disabled*
> High voltages (obviously), freezes and crashes.


This configuration crashing is a concern.  Your memory is DDR4-3200 which is an officially supported speed, and everything else is stock... Your cpu *should* be stable under this configuration out of the box.  It could be that the cpu itself is faulty or there is an issue in some other part of the system.

I would still try raising the curve offsets (positive as needed) to see if you can get it stable, but if you are within a return window on the cpu or maybe the motherboard that is something to consider.
You mentioned you had a 5600x before?  Was that running in the same system without issue?


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## Taraquin (Nov 19, 2021)

Try a slight positive offset on failing core, use pbo+0 and try going as low as possible on other cores. ProcODT is very high, try 32, 60 is Zen 1/Zen 1+. Zen 2 and 3 prefer 28-37 on SR and 28-48 on DR.


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## panini (Nov 19, 2021)

blu3dragon said:


> If a core is failing on the prime95 test, you normally want to raise the voltage (so increase the offset) to help with stability.  It will raise the temp a little, but at the same time it will be more stable, and the cpu will automatically lower the clock if needed to stay within temp and current limits.  So, yes, if a core is failing on +/-0 I would try to set a positive offset and see if it helps.  Your voltages for SoC, etc in Zen timings all look good and are at the stock values which should work fine for DDR4-3200 and FLCK 1600.
> 
> For comparison, here's what I have my 5800x set to for 24/7 stability.  Later bios versions have not affected these settings.
> 
> ...


The 5600x *with* old R9 390 behaved fine. Once I switched to a 6800xt issues began to appear. The R9 390 could obviously not push out anything close to the monitor refresh rate (165hz) on more modern/demanding games.
@Taraquin I'll try the 37 ohm on ProcODT but shouldn't D.O.C.P. take care of that automatically? Edit: ProcODT is set to Auto, which regardless of D.O.C.P. means 60ohm, so I do not think I should change it.

*****Prime95 now no longer reports failing cores, with the three worst cores that were failing before now set to a +5 offset. Battlefield V no longer crashes (could be due to moving it to a different drive).
Playing Battlefield results in CPU reaching 82 degrees Celsius with a 90W draw.

*Big edit: Battlefield only runs smoothly when I have singlecore script prime95 running in the background...?!* the moment I close all P95 programs, temps drop, wattage draw goes down but stutters arrive. Is this the result of the curve optimizer changing voltages according to frequency? Battlefield V alone takes up between 40 and 80% CPU utilisation. This 90W draw was therefore not accurate, nor was the 82 degrees celsius.
*
Without Prim95 running (duh):*
CR20 now results in scores around 5500 with a max temp of celsius 75.
CR23 results in scores around 14000 with a max temp of celsius 72.

These lower scores (and temps) presumably are the result of the higher voltage offset on three cores. Given the PPT of 95W it will clock down, stabilizing at 4.25Ghz@1.15V, hovering around 70 degrees celsius.

I have come across  this forum post that may be similar to what issues I have. I will test his finding (increasing VDDCR Cpu Voltage) tomorrow.

*Another stutter appears*
I now have a different stutter that I have not seen before, happen multiple times: the system extremely underclocks for .5 to 1 second, making the audio stutter. The mouse and system response feel like it is under 100% utilisation, even if the system is near-idle. I have not yet been able to log this stuttering.


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## blu3dragon (Nov 19, 2021)

panini said:


> *****Prime95 now no longer reports failing cores, with the three worst cores that were failing before now set to a +5 offset.


This is a win.
Sounds like you have PPT still set at 90W.  You might be able to raise that back up now if you want to improve your CR20 and CR23 scores.

From your other comments it seems like maybe things are still not completely stable at idle, or windows is somehow not correctly prioritizing processes and leaving the cpu in an idle state.  Either way it's a little odd and I'm not quite sure what to suggest for that... Maybe look at the windows power plan or consider a re-install of windows (but I think you already did that).


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## panini (Nov 20, 2021)

Okay so because the PPT is only hit when all cores are doing something, singlecore or low-load tasks (like opening a single chrome tab) result in a boost to 4.85Ghz, still causing the temps to spike to 68-72 degrees. Is this bad in the long run? I suspect it could be worse for the pump/radiator than anything else. Idle temps go below 50-48, which is good, but may be too low.

*edit*: system completely froze again under mild load, but rather annoyingly I had important programs opened. I have not lost too much progress but still annoying. I guess it is not fully stable.

intensive programs (when large files are open) like GIS or CAD are freezing/slow to respond.

The change of VDDCR CPU voltage has not changed anything
Am considering starting off with a fresh install of Windows 11.

edit 2:
Battlefield V crashed again, presumably because I disabled the curve optimizer (for testing).
edit 3:
Battlefield V crashed again, even after re-enabling curve optimizer.

I might create a Windows 11 boot drive with test applications and performance loggers...


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## The King (Nov 21, 2021)

Have your ruled out the possibility that something is shorting inside your case?

Since you already done some much testing. I would remove the motherboard and test it outside the case.


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## panini (Nov 21, 2021)

The King said:


> Have your ruled out the possibility that something is shorting inside your case?
> 
> Since you already done some much testing. I would remove the motherboard and test it outside the case.


I have run the PC like that for quite a while waiting for my RMA, on a cartboard box. That was before the 5800x upgrade. The entire case is made of painted aluminium. What would be shorting out on the inside of the case? I take it VRM's are quite well protected?

In a month I will have time to take it apart entirely, and probably will try to modify the case to no longer need the PCIe-riser. The pictures below explain the hassle of doing that, but considering the density of the PC, you might be right. It is not being moved though, so why would it behave normally for hours on end, then suddenly starting to run into problems?


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## The King (Nov 21, 2021)

From the Pics you posted is the top of your case closed off? or does it have vents to let the AIO heat escape from the top?
A video I seen on YouTube shows that the AIO version has open vents on the top and he gets really good temps using a 5950X.


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## panini (Nov 22, 2021)

The King said:


> From the Pics you posted is the top of your case closed off? or does it have vents to let the AIO heat escape from the top?
> A video I seen on YouTube shows that the AIO version has open vents on the top and he gets really good temps using a 5950X.


That is indeed the same case. I think the problem is a bit more complicated. If the top were closed, really bad throttling would definitely happen, which has never happened. The cooling is fine.


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## CjSaw (Jan 12, 2022)

Man Panini this all sounds like a headache.
I didn’t read every word of this thread so sorry if I’m missing some details…
Here’s my settings and suggestions…
Enable PBO, limit PPT in the range of 115-125, leave EDC and TDC set to auto. Test in Prime and R23. Then if that’s stable start messing with curve optimizer. 
My settings are PPT—115 with a negative 30 all core curve in curve optimizer.
I get 4.6ghz in R23 all core with temps at 70c after 30 minute loop.
Single core I get 4.85ghz and temps hover around 50c.
I have an Arctic 280 for cooling.
The other night outside temps where -10 outside so I messed around with the radiator in the window lol..
Got it idling at 3c and got all core to 4.85 and temps where 40c
Single core got 5.0ghz with temps in the low twenties… now to hit these I did play with a few other settings though


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## Zerominded (May 8, 2022)

I have registered especially to be able to reply to this thread. And add information to help out future readers.

i suspect the topic starter already realized that this problem with the stutters are due to the fact that there’s a bug in the amd firmware which especially comes up with windows 11 due to the fact that fTPM is enabled on default.

a bios update fixes these issues.
I’ve had the same issues with windows10 and  bitlocker enabled.
It’s fixed now!


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## panini (May 8, 2022)

Zerominded said:


> I have registered especially to be able to reply to this thread. And add information to help out future readers.
> 
> i suspect the topic starter already realized that this problem with the stutters are due to the fact that there’s a bug in the amd firmware which especially comes up with windows 11 due to the fact that fTPM is enabled on default.
> 
> ...


Thank you for responding.

I'd like to give a little update.
Last week, I did a fresh install of Windows 11 on an nvme ssd.
The stutter still remained.
I then went back to Windows 10 and tweaked more of the bios & gpu settings and minimized the stuttering.
However, they are still present from time to time and it still seems like my system is not behaving as it should be.

BIOS is updated to latest stable version (March 9th)

Edit: I just flashed a BETA BIOS firmware update that was released 9 days ago, which means all BIOS settings are reset back to their default.
I then enabled DOCP for RAM overclock and did some testing. Playing Battlefield V seems to more stable than before. Though there is less stutter, it is still there.


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## blu3dragon (May 9, 2022)

panini said:


> Thank you for responding.
> 
> I'd like to give a little update.
> Last week, I did a fresh install of Windows 11 on an nvme ssd.
> ...



One thing you could try is to disable CPPC preferred cores:

AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled
There is at least once case (in 3dmark cpu test) where this causes issues.  See this post: https://www.overclock.net/threads/5800x3d-owners.1798046/page-36#post-28984221

I think AGESA 1.2.0.7 is supposed to have a fix for the fTMP issues, but if you don't need fTMP I would disable that as well.

For the original question in this thread, AGESA 1.2.0.6b added the ability to set a negative value for _Max CPU Boost Clock Override_ in the AMD overclocking menu.  (you will need to leave it on Auto in the ASUS PBO menu to pick that up).  See https://www.overclock.net/threads/a...ing-wifi-thread.1750538/page-31#post-28947440


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