# Calling all Phenom II Overclocking Gurus!



## Enmity (Nov 26, 2009)

I have an unusual question for you. My situation is this, My phenom II 940 is overclocked to 3.8ghz by only raising the Vcore to 1.488 and multi to obtain this clock. I've found that my corsair ram (xms2 ddr2 800) will only clock a hair over 200fsb at 4-4-4-12. Ive also set the nb to 12x in bios - which sets the nb at 2400Mhz, however my bios has no way to set the nb voltage so 12x is the highest my bios will boot at.

I've tried dropping the timings down to 5-5-5-15 in the bios and then overclocking the fsb to roughly 250fsb...which raises the nb right up to 2800Mhz+, my ram would now be at 1000mhz and cpu clock at 3.8Ghz.

Both of these configurations yeild pretty much the same results.

What I'd like to know is is there a way to use a program to PERMINANTLY set the NB volts - even at boot, so then from the bios I could raise the nb multi higher - 13-14x therefore i wouldnt have to drop my ram timings from 4-4-4-12 since i know amd prefers low n tight as versus high n loose (with regard to ram, not women 

Or - what would be the lowest cas 5 ram timings I could try coz i know that getting that nb up to 2.8Ghz+ performs really well - id just like to find a way to obtain this without compromising my ram timings.

I'll attach a screen of my current AOD settings for your reference.

any help or suggestions are much appreciated, cheers.


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## Enmity (Nov 26, 2009)

added screenie


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## Enmity (Nov 26, 2009)

Bump, anyone?


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## kurosagi01 (Nov 26, 2009)

the BEST and most SAFEST way to overclock a processor is by the BIOS,that way you can overclock the CPU and set the voltages, and it will remain at that voltage until you change it,if that helps.


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## erocker (Nov 26, 2009)

Your bios most definitely has a NB voltage setting. Gigabyte wouldn't make a DQ6 board without one.


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## TheShad0W (Nov 26, 2009)

What about the "NB VID" and "NB Core" voltage settings in the AMD overdrive utility (shown in your screenshot)...


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

alright, so i managed to run a memory divider to force my ram to 667 rather than 800 and kept the timings of 4-4-4-12 then increased fsb until ram is back at 800mhz yeilding a nb speed of 2880mhz and cpu clock back at 3.8Ghz.

Now i just need to find out if it will perform better with the ram at 800mhz with 4-4-4-12, or whether it'll be faster at 1000Mhz @ 5-5-5-15


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

in bios press ctrl-f1 that should unlock more advanced overclocking options


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## erocker (Nov 27, 2009)

Enmity said:


> alright, so i managed to run a memory divider to force my ram to 667 rather than 800 and kept the timings of 4-4-4-12 then increased fsb until ram is back at 800mhz yeilding a nb speed of 2880mhz and cpu clock back at 3.8Ghz.
> 
> Now i just need to find out if it will perform better with the ram at 800mhz with 4-4-4-12, or whether it'll be faster at 1000Mhz @ 5-5-5-15



Usually with AMD, a lower cas will yeild better results. 2880 on the NB is quite good for your CPU being at 3.8ghz. NB frequency directly improves the performance of the RAM.


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

Enmity said:


> alright, so i managed to run a memory divider to force my ram to 667 rather than 800 and kept the timings of 4-4-4-12 then increased fsb until ram is back at 800mhz yeilding a nb speed of 2880mhz and cpu clock back at 3.8Ghz.
> 
> Now i just need to find out if it will perform better with the ram at 800mhz with 4-4-4-12, or whether it'll be faster at 1000Mhz @ 5-5-5-15



4-4-4-12 or 1000Mhz @ 5-5-5-15 will give u same speeds, according that the rest of other timing are tight, your nb clock is way to high, higher nb clocks, will result in a lower overall cpu clock

hears some examples
cpu 3800mhz 1.5v nb 2400mhz 1.25v
cpu 3800mhz 1.6v, nb 2880 1.4v

its a balance thing, if combined higher cpu/nb clocks lower the overclock head room u will have, verses more heat

lower north bridge clocks, higher the cpu clock u will achieve, reverse vesa


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

alright so i ran vantage and my cpu score has dropped quite significantly from over 31k to about 27k since running the ram divider. Perhaps its a stability issue with having the nb so high...needs more tweaking.

thanks jr, im aware of the advanced bios features however im yet to figure out exactly how useful the unlocked settings are with my board - it basically unlocks a few more memory settings and HTlink stuff - haven't sussed that out yet.

I was pretty sure that with amd they generally like low cas as versus high mhz, thanks erocker for backing up that theory 

actually i just thought of another question - how effective is overclocking the HTlink? i know it can help with memory bandwidth but does it really show?...and also i've heard some stories of leaving the htlink around 1.8 - 2.0 and it'll "sometimes" allow for higher cpu clock. My chip is only stable slightly over 3.8 - i think 3840Mhz is about tops so far.


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## erocker (Nov 27, 2009)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> 4-4-4-12 or 1000Mhz @ 5-5-5-15 will give u same speeds, according that the rest of other timing are tight, your nb clock is way to high, higher nb clocks, will result in a lower overall cpu clock
> 
> hears some examples
> cpu 3800mhz 1.5v nb 2400mhz 1.25v
> ...



Yes and no, it depends on the CPU and the motherboard. If he is able to get 3.8ghz and a 2880mhz NB that is great. Most PII's aren't able to be 24/7 at anything over 3.8ghz anyways. More heat comes from raising the NB/CPU VTT voltage.

24/7 for me is 3.8ghz 2800mhz NB. CPU volts= 1.475, NB/CPU VTT = 1.3v, NB = 1.24v. My system runs quite cool with these settings. If I want to do 4ghz it takes 1.525v for the CPU, and a 2400Mhz NB. (With my PII x4 955)


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

i own a am2+ gigabyte board, and a phenom II 940, and yes your board has that option to choose nb voltage, ht link does not give u no extra speed, leave at 2.0ghz


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

erocker said:


> Yes and no, it depends on the CPU and the motherboard. If he is able to get 3.8ghz and a 2880mhz NB that is great. Most PII's aren't able to be 24/7 at anything over 3.8ghz anyways. More heat comes from raising the NB/CPU VTT voltage.
> 
> 24/7 for me is 3.8ghz 2800mhz NB. CPU volts= 1.475, NB/CPU VTT = 1.3v, NB = 1.24v. My system runs quite cool with these settings. If I want to do 4ghz it takes 1.525v for the CPU, and a 2400Mhz NB.



i agree that's some nice clocks he got, but u have to agree lowering nb clocks will result in a higher cpu clock, with lower vcore voltage with less heat


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> 4-4-4-12 or 1000Mhz @ 5-5-5-15 will give u same speeds, according that the rest of other timing are tight, your nb clock is way to high, higher nb clocks, will result in a lower overall cpu clock
> 
> hears some examples
> cpu 3800mhz 1.5v nb 2400mhz 1.25v
> ...



thats really useful thanks mate, it makes sense really. I guess ive gotta find the right balance for my hardware. here's a screen of where im at right now..

I've gotta gap it to work now, I appreciate any help or suggestions cheers guys.


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## erocker (Nov 27, 2009)

Your NB/VID voltage looks awfully high. Set it back to 1.3v - 1.32v


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

i'll do that now before i go, thanks man


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## erocker (Nov 27, 2009)

Enmity said:


> i'll do that now before i go, thanks man



If you look at your temps now, then after you lower the NB/CPU VTT voltage there should be a good temp drop.


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

hes lucky to achieve those clocks with such a low voltage, compared to my dud of pII 940, highest i got was 3700mhz 1.6250v, nb 1.45v 2800mhz


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

could be that my Asus M4A79-deluxe board is a bad overclocker or just pure bad luck getting a bad batch of a cpu, ethier way looking to get a Asus Crosshair III Formula, praying ill get a higher clock


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

as soon as i dropped that nb volt down to 1.31 the system crashed lol...im at work now so cant test for the moment but i'll try and find the lowest stable voltage for nb later. 

also, i never thought to check whether after unlocking extra settings in bios (ctrl + f1) to check if the nb would have +volts


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## cadaveca (Nov 27, 2009)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> could be that my Asus M4A79-deluxe board is a bad overclocker or just pure bad luck getting a bad batch of a cpu, ethier way looking to get a Asus Crosshair III Formula, praying ill get a higher clock




Crosshair3 rocks...300x12.5(3750mhz), 2700NB, 2400HTT(running crossfire), 1600 mem, with a crappy 720BE @ 1.55v. NB @ 1.3625v. all other volts @ stock.

Enmity..max v for NB(offically from AMD) 1.425v, cpu 1.55v. Just keep it under 57c or so. the lower you get the temps, the better it will clock.


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

ah i see, i'll try 1.35 when i get home, then 1.375  temps are pretty good, doesn't really go much over 52C from what i've seen.


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

Enmity said:


> ah i see, i'll try 1.35 when i get home, then 1.375  temps are pretty good, doesn't really go much over 52C from what i've seen.



good job Enmity aim for no higher then 55c what speed is your nb at?


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

nb is at 2868 as in screenie  still gotta find out why my cpu score in vantage dropped so much at these settings though.


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> Crosshair3 rocks...300x12.5(3750mhz), 2700NB, 2400HTT(running crossfire), 1600 mem, with a crappy 720BE @ 1.55v. NB @ 1.3625v. all other volts @ stock.
> 
> Enmity..max v for NB(offically from AMD) 1.425v, cpu 1.55v. Just keep it under 57c or so. the lower you get the temps, the better it will clock.
> 
> ...



sweet clocks , dont want to post up my clocks with my 940 u all my might laugh lol


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

Enmity said:


> nb is at 2868 as in screenie  still gotta find out why my cpu score in vantage dropped so much at these settings though.



is there anyway u can show us some screen shots of your bios settings, ram settings, cpu settings etc?


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## Zubasa (Nov 27, 2009)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> hes lucky to achieve those clocks with such a low voltage, compared to my dud of pII 940, highest i got was 3700mhz 1.6250v, nb 1.45v 2800mhz


That is crazy, get that CPU voltage below 1.55V if you want your chip to last :shadedshu
I thought my 810 clocks bad, now I see I am wrong


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## erocker (Nov 27, 2009)

Enmity said:


> nb is at 2868 as in screenie  still gotta find out why my cpu score in vantage dropped so much at these settings though.



Most likely you aren't stable.


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

lol it was only the one time i had it that high, its clocked at 3.4ghz 1.4v, nb 1.3250v 2678mhz memory 1100mhz 5.5.5.12 2T 24/7


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## Zubasa (Nov 27, 2009)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> lol it was only the one time i had it that high, its clocked at 3.4ghz 1.4v, nb 1.3250v 2678mhz memory 1100mhz 5.5.5.12 2T 24/7


You should be able to go higher, may be 3.6Ghz for 24/7.


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

once i get home i'll use the digital camera to take some shots of the bios. basically i leave cpu volts at stock, rams at 2.15V, right now im running the ddr2 at 667mhz, the nb is booting at 12x (2400Mhz) and cpu multi at stock.

So pretty much running the system at stock, then using the profile i made in aod to apply the overclock and adjusted volts.


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

Zubasa said:


> You should be able to go higher, may be 3.6Ghz for 24/7.



i wish  for 3.6ghz i need 1.5250v


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## Zubasa (Nov 27, 2009)

Enmity said:


> once i get home i'll use the digital camera to take some shots of the bios. basically i leave cpu volts at stock, rams at 2.15V, right now im running the ddr2 at 667mhz, the nb is booting at 12x (2400Mhz) and cpu multi at stock.
> 
> So pretty much running the system at stock, then using the profile i made in aod to apply the overclock and adjusted volts.


Trust me, it is always better to Overclock in the bios.
I have a friend that killed his 790GX along with his Phenom 9850 back in the day with AOD.
That P.O.S. screwed up and also OCed his pci-e clock for some crazy reason. :shadedshu


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

never had the best of luck, purchasing hardware at local computer store, seems all i get its duds after duds


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## Zubasa (Nov 27, 2009)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> never had the best of luck, purchasing hardware at local computer store, seems all i get its duds after duds


A friend of mine owns a computer store, and the stuff I brought from him is not bad.
I got my 810 from a local store also, and its seems alright so far.


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

the reason why i use aod is because majority of the time im just pissin about in windows, on the net or listening to music. but when i want to game or bench justl oad up the profile and everythings much faster


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## Zubasa (Nov 27, 2009)

Enmity said:


> the reason why i use aod is because majority of the time im just pissin about in windows, on the net or listening to music. but when i want to game or bench justl oad up the profile and everythings much faster


I actually let CnQ kicks in.


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

yeah true, i disabled it lol


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

Enmity don't use aod its nothing but junk, always stick with the bios, its your friend, its there for a reason


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## Zubasa (Nov 27, 2009)

Enmity said:


> nb is at 2868 as in screenie  still gotta find out why my cpu score in vantage dropped so much at these settings though.


Try lowering your HT link speed, overclocking the HT link always does more harm than good.
It really makes the whole system less stable, no AMD Destop CPU have yet to need that bandwidth.


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

alright good thinking, i'll lower my htlink back down to 2000 later, hmm come to think of it when i ran vantage the ht was over 2.6...isn't that a big no no? lol...


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## cadaveca (Nov 27, 2009)

Zubasa said:


> Try lowerin your HT link speed, overclocking the HT link always does more harm than good.
> It really makes the whole system less stable, no AMD Destop CPU have yet to need that bandwidth.



I beg to differ. You aren't running multiple vgas and monitors, are you? Doesn't do more harm than good...only if you do not clock properly.

I digress though...the 3-5% boost is hardly worth it...

I can run up to 2800mhz HTT, 325mhz "FSB", 3200NB...without it hurting performance. Immature bioses are all over the place though, and don't accurately depict the truth..


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

i think i'll use aod just until i find the sweet spot, once i've found it, i'll lock it in for 24/7 via bios and enable cnq n be done with it....for maybe 3 -4 days, then i'll be  itching to mess with shit again lol

but again, the problem with using the bios for me is that there is no nb voltage settings - the only nb volts in my bios (even after ctrl f1) only has the option to - the nb, not + 

Annoying huh?  so if i overclocked from bios to the setting im currently using, theres no way in hell it would boot..hence the reason i use aod to adjust the voltages.


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## Zubasa (Nov 27, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> I beg to differ. You aren't running multiple vgas and monitors, are you? Doesn't do more harm than good...only if you do not clock properly.
> 
> I digress though...the 3-5% boost is hardly worth it...


Well, most of the time it has to do with the internal NB being tied to the HT link speed in some boards.
It is OCing the internal NB that really improves your peformance.

OCing the HT Link hardly worths the effort


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## cadaveca (Nov 27, 2009)

Zubasa said:


> Well, most of the time it has to do with the internal NB being tied to the HT link speed in some boards.
> It is OCing the internal NB that really improves your peformance.



I don't clock everything at once..it takes me many months before I find 24/7 settings...I've had this Crosshair 3 since april, and just settled in on 24/7 clocks about 3 weeks ago...that's 6+ months of tweaking daily.

Yes, the gains are minimal of HTT clocking. 2000 to 2400 gets me 3.3% only. more than 2400 requires voltage boost...and shows minimal gains afterwords. Less than linear scaling.

Keep in mind, when you set things at differnt speeds, this can increase latency between components, so it's best to get 1:1, or other ratios...takes alot of testing to find these "sweetspots".


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## Zubasa (Nov 27, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> I don't clock everything at once..it takes me many months before I find 24/7 settings...I've had this Crosshair 3 since april, and just settled in on 24/7 clocks about 3 weeks ago...that's 6 months of tweaking daily.


Same here, I got my system in July and now its November


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

yup its time consuming but end result is diffidently well worth it


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

I've lost count how many endless days i spent tweaking all my system's, better yet years lol


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## cadaveca (Nov 27, 2009)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> I've lost count how many endless days i spent tweaking all my system's, better yet years lol



I literally have 1000's of pages of written notes for my testing over the past 8 years or so...5 paper boxes of notebooks on settings, scores, scaling, failures, stability testing, what errors mean what, blah, blah, blah...hardware features, mistakes I've seen reviewers make, who favors what, who works for who, and who is friends with who...rumours, stores to buy from and stores to avoid...











 All useless in real life. But I've become pretty good at predicting future hardware, etc, I think. Not like that will ever help anyone, or matter...nor does it have any importance.


I can clock systems over the phone now...I remember telling some dude how to set up a 680i board...when I've never palyed with one...but I knew what he had to change, based on the failures he reported.

Big deal. I should have spent that time playing my guitars.


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

you are one hell of an organised person lol....i just mess with settings willy nilly, i think i have a decent enough understanding now with regards to cpu overclocking, but memory is a tough one for me. gpus are fairly simple, had my 5850's at 900/1200 but dont like using amdgpuclock tool to obtain the clocks. Since im using the physx hack for my 9800gt it screws with msi afterburner so i cant use afterburner to overclock my 5850s - only can adjust voltage. 

I asked unwinder himself, he was who told me the physx hack screws with afterburner and crossfire. ah well.


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## Zubasa (Nov 27, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> I literally have 1000's of pages of written notes for my testing over the past 8 years or so...5 paper boxes of notebooks on settings, scores, scaling, failures, stability testing, what errors mean what, blah, blah, blah...hardware features, mistakes I've seen reviewers make, who favors what, who works for who, and who is friends with who...rumours, stores to buy from and stores to avoid...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can see we are a bunch of geeks.


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## cadaveca (Nov 27, 2009)

Yeah, I have OCD.

I mean, I've been banned from a few forums(XS and HWC)...not because I ripped someone off, or anything like that...but because I expect too much, and am honest 100%. Hard to expect honesty form marketing, I have found, and when you push how people are dishonest, they tend to retaliate. 

lol.


but yeah...let us know how it goes...how it errors...and I can probably help ya push that extra bit further.


i7 B2B memory setting was exposed due to me. But of course, those that cover it in "media" credit themselves. It was ME who told "3oh6" that TRD was missing...they then asked for that setting, and were given B2B


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

I'll keep you posted, ive got a couple of other ideas left yet. it just annoys me that my ram wont overclock for peanuts at cas 4 but once i drop to 5-5-5-15 i can take the fsb from 200 to 250+  no problem


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 27, 2009)

whats the highest u can get with cas4 & 5 in mhz?


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## Enmity (Nov 27, 2009)

cas4 - 810max
cas5 - 1030max


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## cadaveca (Nov 28, 2009)

Promos or elpida sticks. Perfectly normal for 'em.


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## Enmity (Nov 28, 2009)

sorry? i have no idea what that means lol...but its normal the way they behave?


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## cadaveca (Nov 28, 2009)

Yes, normal scaling...the actual memory under the heatspreader is likely promos or elpida...depends on what revision you have.

TRFC adjustment might get you a bit more too...but only so much.


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## Enmity (Nov 28, 2009)

an adjustment to what value would you consider?


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## cadaveca (Nov 28, 2009)

Enmity said:


> an adjustment to what value would you consider?



Post up the bios pics, and "we'll tawk".


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## Enmity (Nov 28, 2009)

ok heres some screens of bios, lets tawk


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## cadaveca (Nov 28, 2009)

Hmm. So SPD settings gets you 1030mhz...?

You have a couple of options here...testing will show what's best.

I'm as thrown off as you are..NB volts "-" only? 

did you try those settings and see in AOD if it really does lower the volts?

otherwise, I'd up the "FSB", and drop the ram multi to keep as close to your max 4-4-4 timings that you can.

Can you select 110 for TRFC on each channel?

Although bumping up the memcontrol multi will make 4 some bandwidth gains, I don't see you needing more than 2600mhz(13x), so aim for 260FSB, mem control @ 10x, HTT@ 8x.

Minimum RAS active, and row cycle time, set lower than SPD, will affect your ram clocks a bit too, so you might want to go with full SPD settings if you end up with running ram @ 5-5-5.

I eman, really, you started off looking for a way to increase memcontrol volts, as obviously this may help performance increases, but that bios ain't cooperating, as you said!

The cooler you get that cpu, the better the memcontroller will scale, too...you've got 2880 you said...did that test fully stable?


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## Enmity (Nov 28, 2009)

yup, spd gets me over 1000mhz, 4-4-4-12 is only stable a few mhz over 800, right now it wont budge even a little. basically what im wanting to do is max out my nb with my ram, whether it's 4-4-4-12@800mhz or 5-5-5-15@1000Mhz im not sure which will perform best. I've backed the nb down to just over 2600mhz now, gunna try a test @3.8Ghz vcore 1.504, 4-4-4-12@800mhz...will report back


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## cadaveca (Nov 28, 2009)

you really won't need more than 2600mhz on NB for 3.8ghz...gains will be 100-200mb/sec only in synthetic benches. @ 8k-9k/sec, 200mb/sec is such a small gain...


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 28, 2009)

whats the highest volts u ever passed trough your memory, i bet i can sqeeze more out of your corsairs


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 28, 2009)

set memory controller volts to its lowest setting,  everything else thats auto set to manual, ht link width/ht link frequency set both at x16, its been a while since i used my gigabyte board, what options does auto xpress show


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## Enmity (Nov 28, 2009)

ok done some more testing, it seems this morning (when it was much cooler) things were a little more stable. this afternoon i found that at 4-4-4-12 800mhz@2.15V was all i could get out of these sticks - however i have changed the TRFC from 127ns to 105ns now.

I also tried  Spd settings with the 105ns, so 5-5-5-15 hits 1000mhz@2.15V, the next highest voltage i can choose for my ram is 2.25V...so im testing that now, might be able to squeeze more than 1000Mhz out of it. I ran vantage just now and got cpu score of 27467. Cpu @3813Mhz, 246 ht reference, nb@2706,memory at 5-5-5-15


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 28, 2009)

105ns that's right i forgot to add that, Enmity have a tip for ya, did u ever set your memory at 1T gigabyte boards are known to work with this setting with dd2 compared to most other boards, just try it out 4.4.4.10 1T, cause i know on my gigabyte board using a adata pc6400 2gb kit, i was able to get 5.4.4.10, 890mhz 1T


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## cadaveca (Nov 28, 2009)

Enmity said:


> ok done some more testing, it seems this morning (when it was much cooler) things were a little more stable. this afternoon i found that at 4-4-4-12 800mhz@2.15V was all i could get out of these sticks - however i have changed the TRFC from 127ns to 105ns now.
> 
> I also tried  Spd settings with the 105ns, so 5-5-5-15 hits 1000mhz@2.15V, the next highest voltage i can choose for my ram is 2.25V...so im testing that now, might be able to squeeze more than 1000Mhz out of it. I ran vantage just now and got cpu score of 27467. Cpu @3813Mhz, 246 ht reference, nb@2706,memory at 5-5-5-15



I merely mention the 110TRFC for 4-4-4 timings, as another timing to pull in tight @ 400mhz. You might be able to go to 90 or so, but maybe not...and going much looser than 127 isn't gonna get you much more..but wouldn't hurt to try.

I wholely prefer the lower-voltage settings, as you aren't really going to get alot more performance clocking higher.

I'm urinnng DDR3...but...I cna run 4 sticks @ 1T, so as Corduroy suggests, give it a try. You could even try 4-4-3...


JUST BE AWARE THAT RAM CLOCKING CAN RENDER YOU OS INSTALL USELESS. PLEASE BE SURE TO BACK UP ANY PERTINET DATA BEFORE YOU GO TOO FAR.


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## Enmity (Nov 28, 2009)

ok i have a weird situation here. If i set the ram to 5-5-5-15 then raise the ht to 246 this gives me a cpu clock of 3813, the nb is at 2706 and my cpu score in vantage  is 27467.

Now, if i change the timings to 4-4-4-11 and have the nb at 11x (2200Mhz) and leave the ht reference at 200 and just overclock using the multi, this gives me a cpu clock of 3817, nb @2210 and my vantage score skyrockets to 31760.

next I might try the 12x for the nb (2400mhz) coz i know my system will boot at that setting, then give it another whirl to see if that provides any increase.

I now leave the ram at 105ns - the next lowest setting is 75ns so i think thats a bit too low. I tried both 4-4-3-12 and 4-4-4-10 - I set them one at a time in AOD 4-4-3-12 crashed as soon as i went into anything fullscreen, 4-4-4-10 seemed fine so i went to lock it in in the bios but os wouldn't load, so im trying 4-4-4-11 now. I haven't tried 1T yet, would that provide any added performance if so?

I really have to thank you guys, im a bit of a noob when it comes to memory. I appreciate your help and suggestions and im slowly building up an understanding - whilst getting better performance  so thanks for the help thus far

...Im wondering about a couple of other settings now..can i change them safely?
Write recovery time = 6
Precharge time = 4
Row Cycle time = 24
RAS to RAS delay = 3

compared to my screenshot above, these settings have changed a lot since then, but ive never touched them lol...thoughts?


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 28, 2009)

Enmity said:


> ok i have a weird situation here. If i set the ram to 5-5-5-15 then raise the ht to 246 this gives me a cpu clock of 3813, the nb is at 2706 and my cpu score in vantage  is 27467.
> 
> Now, if i change the timings to 4-4-4-11 and have the nb at 11x (2200Mhz) and leave the ht reference at 200 and just overclock using the multi, this gives me a cpu clock of 3817, nb @2210 and my vantage score skyrockets to 31760.



Because the actual bandwidth is so close, the lower latencies pay off more. I'd give credit to whoever mentioned that before, but I'm too lazy to look to see who it was.



Enmity said:


> next I might try the 12x for the nb (2400mhz) coz i know my system will boot at that setting, then give it another whirl to see if that provides any increase.



Sounds like a good plan.



Enmity said:


> I now leave the ram at 105ns - the next lowest setting is 75ns so i think thats a bit too low. I tried both 4-4-3-12 and 4-4-4-10 - I set them one at a time in AOD 4-4-3-12 crashed as soon as i went into anything fullscreen, 4-4-4-10 seemed fine so i went to lock it in in the bios but os wouldn't load, so im trying 4-4-4-11 now. I haven't tried 1T yet, would that provide any added performance if so?


 1T can add in 300-500MB/sec, depending on overall ram speed. Some times more, sometimes, less...



Enmity said:


> I really have to thank you guys, im a bit of a noob when it comes to memory. I appreciate your help and suggestions and im slowly building up an understanding - whilst getting better performance  so thanks for the help thus far


 No problem! I'm learning here too...not so much about the memory, but definately about your board!



Enmity said:


> ...Im wondering about a couple of other settings now..can i change them safely?
> Write recovery time = 6
> Precharge time = 4
> Row Cycle time = 24
> ...



Write recovery time = 6......this should go to 8 above 1000mhz.


Precharge time = 4.......5 might bring more stability, but of course, tighter beings more performance....best to try and see what works best for you.


Row Cycle time = 24.........TRC is a very important timing. UP will slow the mem, down, more performance. 20-26 is normal settings, and you are right near midway..seems good to me, but again, play with and see what's best.


RAS to RAS delay = 3....this won't hcange much, no matter what memory is installed. as teh frequency goes up, so must this timing..but..for example, with DDR3 @ 1733, I run 4. You won't get 2...but going up won't give you much either.


I love doing this stuff...companies could send me parts, let me play, and I'd be more than willing to report back and send the stuff back, no cost to them. Going back in the past to like D975x chipsets, I've been talking about settings we needed as users long before they were available. My OCD means I try everything...even if there is a bit of a formula for these settings. We really need this info out for AMD set-ups, as many people, including OEMs, are pretty lost when it comes to mem tweaking on AMD...AMD seems to love Samsung HCF0, and the new elpida BBSE memory ICs( for DDR3)...but bios support must be there first, as there are far more timings that we just don't see.




FYI...4-4-4-12, or 4-4-4-15 is best for your DIMMs, and hence your issues going lower. Typically, you add up the first three to get the fourth...OK?


----------



## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 28, 2009)

hey no problem well all have to learn sometime, i could tell your a novice not just with memory no offense, but no worries we got u covered, ok hears what i would set it at, and no the ones u listed wont do u any justice in terms of speed, there really for stability 

Write recovery time 4
Precharge time stay at 4 i was wrong this give u a good improvement, lowest i ever had this with any board was 4, so if u experience any stability issues, bump it back to 5
Row Cycle time 20
RAS to RAS delay leave it at 3


----------



## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 28, 2009)

oh yeah like cadaveca said, with 1T u gain a fair amount of read/copy mb speeds, not sure if it improves latency, again its been while


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Nov 28, 2009)

Why do you rase your FSB so much? Your CPU is a "Black". Up the multi and lower the FSB. Thats way to much strain on a NB at those settings. AMD chips are FAR different than Intels. You want to stay AWAY from the FSB if you can.


----------



## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 28, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> Because the actual bandwidth is so close, the lower latencies pay off more. I'd give credit to whoever mentioned that before, but I'm too lazy to look to see who it was.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



100% agree memory tweaking is a art, company's need to guide us better to what setting is what, for me i learned the hard way with this m2n sli-deluxe, its sad for a old motherboard it has loads of memory tweaking options, i've found on average most new motherboards don't come even come close to what the m2n-sli deluxe has, this is why i don't prefer gigabyte for am2/3 socket, not sure about intel though


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 28, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Why do you rase your FSB so much? Your CPU is a "Black". Up the multi and lower the FSB. Thats way to much strain on a NB at those settings. AMD chips are FAR different than Intels. You want to stay AWAY from the FSB if you can.



i beg the differ, upping the fsb doesn't do no harm on any components, unless nb/ hyper transport or pci-e clock is set to over the limit


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 28, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Why do you rase your FSB so much? Your CPU is a "Black". Up the multi and lower the FSB. Thats way to much strain on a NB at those settings. AMD chips are FAR different than Intels. You want to stay AWAY from the FSB if you can.






I think you just like disagreeing with whatever I post. Looks good on ya.








But yes, you are right...to a degree. Stressing the NB? 

Hardly. 


Barely useful 24/7?

Usually...but great for benchies.


----------



## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 28, 2009)

lol even north bridge at 2800mhz doesn't do any harm, also running 326fsb 24/7 

TheMailMan78 only reason he used fsb was to overclock hes memory


----------



## BraveSoul (Nov 28, 2009)

what becomes more stressed when using 4 sticks of ram , do 4 sticks limit OC potential?


----------



## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 28, 2009)

who u asking


----------



## BraveSoul (Nov 29, 2009)

Corduroy_Jr said:


> who u asking


whoever is reading


----------



## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 29, 2009)

BraveSoul said:


> what becomes more stressed when using 4 sticks of ram , do 4 sticks limit OC potential?



 using 4 sticks puts stress on the memory controller there for it does limit OC potential but only by a small margin


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 29, 2009)

BraveSoul said:


> what becomes more stressed when using 4 sticks of ram , do 4 sticks limit OC potential?



Depends on the cpu. Not for me, it doesn't. I run 4 sticks @ 1t, unganged. 1733mhz 7-7-7-18-1t seems just fine...only need 1.3625 on NB too(which is well belows AMD's rated max of 1.425). But maybe I got a 720BE with a good memcontroller, and a bad 4th core...actually I know i do


----------



## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 29, 2009)

like i said only by a small margin, also u need to bump vdimm voltage up a notch, also mb temps goes up a few degrees, cause of memory controller is working that much harder to maintain steady bandwidth between the memory & cpu


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Nov 29, 2009)

Ok if you guys say so. Ive seen many dead mobos from stressing the NB to much. But hey to each their own.


----------



## BraveSoul (Nov 29, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> Depends on the cpu. Not for me, it doesn't. I run 4 sticks @ 1t, unganged. 1733mhz 7-7-7-18-1t seems just fine...only need 1.3625 on NB too(which is well belows AMD's rated max of 1.425). But maybe I got a 720BE with a good memcontroller, and a bad 4th core...actually I know i do


nice memory speed. since u mention NB voltage, i take it 4 sticks at such speed with 1t stress northbridge more?


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Nov 29, 2009)

BraveSoul said:


> nice memory speed. since u mention NB voltage, i take it 4 sticks at such speed with 1t stress northbridge more?



According to him you cant hurt the NB. However I disagree.


----------



## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 29, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> Depends on the cpu. Not for me, it doesn't. I run 4 sticks @ 1t, unganged. 1733mhz 7-7-7-18-1t seems just fine...only need 1.3625 on NB too(which is well belows AMD's rated max of 1.425). But maybe I got a 720BE with a good memcontroller, and a bad 4th core...actually I know i do



depends on the motherboard & with a good stepping of a cpu, in your case ether u have a good batch cpu, or your motherboard clocks well, it all boils down to luck


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> According to him you cant hurt the NB. However I disagree.



Mobo NB? You mean chipset? NB is in cpu. Maybe we are crossing info here due to bad naming schemes from AMD...again...

I run 300 "FSB"...default volts(1.1v).

But yeah, you may be right about the chipset, but if it does stress or break the mobo, that's due to bad bios programming, or poor quality chips/poor board design/power delivery. Fact of the matter is the the Crosshair 3 Formula was specifically designed for "FSB" clocking, so my perspective might be skewed.

If you are refering to the NB...which is in the cpu, then no, it's definately NOT going to stress it.


Let me say, noone in the "top tier" of overclockers is really running AMD...and those that are, under LN2, Lh2, are running 3800mhz NB+++, and 6ghz cpu. only under those conditions is there any real concern...I've had my board since just before the public release, and if anything, it clocks better with age...and as long as you keep temps and volts in check, there's nothing to worry about. AMD has all this info in thier white papers, in regard to maximum volts and temps...stay under those margins, and you should be good to go.



Corduroy_Jr said:


> depends on the motherboard & with a good stepping of a cpu, in your case ether u have a good batch cpu, or your motherboard clocks well, it all boils down to luck




I ALWAYS buy good batches. Even on Intel....spent MONTHS looking for my qx9650...got one of the best there has ever been. You can search for my posts on XS about that cpu, as well as batch-finding, and how to find a good cpu.




BraveSoul said:


> nice memory speed. since u mention NB voltage, i take it 4 sticks at such speed with 1t stress northbridge more?



Only enough to raise temps by 3c...hardly what I would call "stressful".

Mind you, I'm also not afraid to pump 1.6v through my 45nm cpus. 7 months and counting..still alive, no loss of clocks.


I think some people are thinking AMD silicon is like Intel silicon, which WOULD take damage from too much stress...and does. Lots of i7 problems from running too high mem volts...not the case on AMD. AMD transistor design actually uses less current than intel (.7 on AMD vs .8 on INtel), and thereby can take a bit more punishment.


----------



## fullinfusion (Nov 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Why do you rase your FSB so much? Your CPU is a "Black". Up the multi and lower the FSB. Thats way to much strain on a NB at those settings. AMD chips are FAR different than Intels. You want to stay AWAY from the FSB if you can.


Hell why you need to ask thAT q??

By all means raise the fsb and play with the multi to get a good blend of fsb+memory bandwidth and all the extra goodies that come with it.  Dude,,, you know that


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Nov 29, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> Mobo NB? You mean chipset? NB is in cpu. Maybe we are crossing info here due to bad naming schemes from AMD...again...
> 
> I run 300 "FSB"...default volts(1.1v).
> 
> ...



You're right. I was thinking chip set. Upping the FSB to much will fry your chip set. 7xx series boards from my experiance do not like anything above 15% OC.

Also anything above 1.44v on a 45nm CPU will cause chip degradation. This I wont debate. 



fullinfusion said:


> Hell why you need to ask thAT q??
> 
> By all means raise the fsb and play with the multi to get a good blend of fsb+memory bandwidth and all the extra goodies that come with it.  Dude,,, you know that



Because look at what he set the multi at. Its way low. Hes trying to get a good OC via the fsb only and ignoring the easiest route. The multi AND risking his mobo in the process. Can you do it sure. But it ain't as safe.


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You're right. I was thinking chip set. Upping the FSB to much will fry your chip set. 7xx series boards from my experiance do not like anything above 15% OC.
> 
> Also anything above 1.44v on a 45nm CPU will cause chip degradation. This I wont debate.




I guess I must have exceptional luck with both my cpu and mobo purchases...because I'm pushing way over what you say will kill, and have been, for MONTHS. I also tend ot push more than anyone else, period. What peopel call "great clocks"...is mediocre at best, to me. 

Of course, yes it is possible I got exceptional parts...I usually do. Heck, Foxconn staff gave me BlackOps for my birthday last year.


Look what I'm running right this second(due to helping out the OP here, normally I run 300FSBx12.5):







Temps under prime, on air, with true120:







Like I said before...read AMD whitepapers...you won't argue, but AMD rates max for Phenom2 as 1.55v cpu, and 1,425 NB(which considers stock cooling, not under  TRUE like  I use). They don't know thier own products?


You're just arguing my points, shall I link you the offical AMD info that says you are wrong?

And yes, notice the stock chipset volts, low NB volts, high cpu volts, and DDR3 @ 2.0v


----------



## Kantastic (Nov 29, 2009)

Sorry to intrude in your little argument guys, but how often do 720 BE's hit 4GHz under safe (1.44v) voltages?


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Nov 29, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> I guess I must have exceptional luck with both my cpu and mobo purchases...because I'm pushing way over what you say will kill, and have been, for MONTHS. I also tend ot push more than anyone else, period. What peopel call "great clocks"...is mediocre at best, to me.
> 
> Of course, yes it is possible I got exceptional parts...I usually do. Heck, Foxconn staff gave me BlackOps for my birthday last year.
> 
> ...



I didn't say you can't run it. What I said is it will cause chip degradation. Which it will. 1.55 is max before you fry it under stock cooling. Never mind the degradation. It may last months. Hell it may last a year or so but not much past that.

Not everyone replaces their components every six months.



Kantastic said:


> Sorry to intrude in your little argument guys, but how often do 720 BE's hit 4GHz under safe (1.44v) voltages?



I wasnt able to do it. However some can. FYI I sold that chip......the guy loves it


----------



## Kantastic (Nov 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> FYI I sold that chip......the guy loves it



Oh why must you smite me like this?


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Nov 29, 2009)

Kantastic said:


> Oh why must you smite me like this?



Well I told ya I would have backed up the sale man. IF she was bad I would have taken care of it for you.


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I didn't say you can't run it. What I said is it will cause chip degradation. Which it will. 1.55 is max before you fry it under stock cooling. Never mind the degradation. It may last months. Hell it may last a year or so but not much past that.


Actually, AMD says 1.55v BEFORE DEGREDATION. Maybe you should do the research before discussing with me. You know that *965BE stock voltage is 1.425?*



TheMailMan78 said:


> Not everyone replaces their components every six months.



What does that have to do with anything? I don't either...Still have XBX2, RD600, P965 systems running FAH 24/7.

I DO buy new parts very often...but not replace...I enjoy the tweaking...start some testing, pick up my guitar, and play away...





TheMailMan78 said:


> I wasnt able to do it. However some can. FYI I sold that chip......the guy loves it



probably 1 in every 300 or so does 4ghz period, nevermind with less than 1.5v. to get good clocking chips that *might* do that, you need to do "stepping" research.



Kantastic said:


> Sorry to intrude in your little argument guys, but how often do 720 BE's hit 4GHz under safe (1.44v) voltages?



NO argument, just discussion. I think we both might be enjoying it too.


----------



## Kantastic (Nov 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Well I told ya I would have backed up the sale man. IF she was bad I would have taken care of it for you.



That was a rhetorical question! I know you would've stuck to your word but I just didn't want any _potential_ problems, it was nothing personal with you. I almost forgot about it until you reminded me.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Nov 29, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> Actually, AMD says 1.55v BEFORE DEGREDATION. Maybe you should do the research before discussing with me. You know that *965BE stock voltage is 1.425?*


 1.42 is a far cry from 1.55v. Also link me to the white sheet that says before degradation. I've never read that. Also why do I need to do stepping research?


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> 1.42 is a far cry from 1.55v. Also link me to the white sheet that says before degradation. I've never read that. Also why do I need to do stepping research?



Not you...those looking for 720BE that will hit 4ghz.

First, here's 955 product page...*max VID 1.5v*. that's 1.5v max, stock. (there goes your idea)

http://products.amd.com/en-us/Deskt...2=&f3=&f4=&f5=&f6=&f7=&f8=&f9=&f10=&f11=&f12=




Do you know who Macci is? Sami From his mouth to my ears(1.55v is safe on high-end aircooling). You calling AMD officials liars?

Here's his twitter, ask him yourself.:

http://twitter.com/SamiMaekinen



Like I said, do your research, you can find the info if you look for it. The example above is enough to prove you wrong.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Nov 29, 2009)

This is what I said and the link you provided proves me right.



> I didn't say you can't run it. What I said is it will cause chip degradation. Which it will. *1.55 is max before you fry it under stock cooling*. Never mind the degradation. It may last months. Hell it may last a year or so but not much past that.


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> This is what I said and the link you provided proves me right.



OK, tell ya what...you get me a stock ocoler for 955BE, and I'll run my chip @ 1.55v. We'll see if it fries...

AMD silicon is low-leakage, allowing much higher volts than you think. AMD had demos of 940BE running 1.6v, said under Coolit Elite, this was perfectly safe.

Everything you say would apply to Intel chips, which use a very different type of silicon, and as such are subject to degredation.

I know I'm right, I've given you a link that show your




TheMailMan78 said:


> Also anything above 1.44v on a 45nm CPU will cause chip degradation. This I wont debate.



as pure wrong. Maybe IN YOUR EXPERIENCE these things are true, but I get my info direct from AMD officials, or i would have STFU a long time ago.

I mean...my board alone shows your



TheMailMan78 said:


> Upping the FSB to much will fry your chip set. 7xx series boards from my experiance do not like anything above 15% OC.



as wrong...I'm doing double your 15%, under prime95 for the past two hours, so I could show a screenie here, showing this statement as just your experience, not nessecarily fact.

I tell you what, you contact AMD yourself, contact Sami, or Simon Solotko, and see what they say. I need to prove nothing...I've already shown you as wrong...you think AMD would sell chips with a VID that would kill them, in less than the warranty period? PLEASE.

I mean, really, read these threads/previews:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=81386


http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/articles/press/Phenom_II_Preview_1.html


http://www.amdzone.com/index.php/reviews/60/11033-amd-phenom-ii-x4-940-black-edition


It's very possible to buy a 940BE or 955BE, and get a chip with 1.5v stock.

Where does it say 1.55v will fry it? How come my chip isn't dead..I hit 1.55v under 720BE cooler...which is a tiny peice of alu with no heatpipe!! cpu still works...???


Heck, even send W1zz here a pm, and see what he says. He's probably the most impartial reviewer on the planet. I don't gotta prove nothing. But I am having fun!


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Nov 29, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> OK, tell ya what...you get me a stock ocoler for 955BE, and I'll run my chip @ 1.55v. We'll see if it frys...
> 
> AMD silicon is low-leakage, allowign muhc higher volts than you think. AMD had demos of 955BE running 1.6v, said under Coolit Elite this was perfectly safe.
> 
> ...



Ok man. Nothing you have posted proves me wrong. However in the link you provided you proved me right. You can name drop all you want. Like I said and AMD said 1.5v is max on stock cooling before degradation. This is why I say stick to 1.44, 1.45 for life span. But you keep running on 1.6. After all what does AMD know.


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Ok man. Nothing you have posted proves me wrong. However in the link you provided you proved me right. You can name drop all you want. Like I said and AMD said 1.5v is max on stock cooling before degradation. This is why I say stick to 1.44, 1.45 for life span. But you keep running on 1.6. After all what does AMD know.





I dropped names so you could contact them, and ask them if they said this was fine or not. No other reason. I'm a house husband, father of 4, ex-con, sociopath, sitting in my basement, so I don't expect you to believe me. But contact those guys...and beleive them, as I do.


You prove nothing, other than your stubbornness.

Really, I don't mind being wrong...at least the proper info would be out in the open.

So you contact them, ask them if they ever said that, because obviously you are changing you story to suit the truth...



TheMailMan78 said:


> Also anything above 1.44v on a 45nm CPU will cause chip degradation. This I wont debate.





Did you forget posting that?:shadedshu



TheMailMan78 said:


> Like I said and AMD said 1.5v is max on stock cooling before degradation. This is why I say stick to 1.44, 1.45 for life span. But you keep running on 1.6. After all what does AMD know.



You just contradicted yourself.


So which is it now? You get your info from where? Your experience?


I got my info form the above people, who work for AMD. I'll listen to them before you.



TheMailMan78 said:


> After all what does AMD know.



Apparantly, not much, if we listen to you. 

Since you didn't read the links, obviously:



> Air: Cooler Master Hyper Z600 - Around 1.5-1.55V / 33C
> Water/Tec: CoolIT Freezone Elite - Around 1.6V / 38C
> Phase Change: VapoChill - 1.7V / Below 0C (software / MB wouldn't report negative numbers)
> LN2: 1.75V (at least during the Crysis demo... *grin*)


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Nov 29, 2009)

Ok lets get down to facts.

I said 





> Also anything above 1.44v on a 45nm CPU will cause chip degradation. This I wont debate.


 Why? Because AMD states that the maximum on their 45nm chips is 1.5v. Thats before SEVER DEGRADATION. Understand that the higher the voltage the more electron migration you have no matter how cool you keep the chip. So with that being said anything above the stock voltage decreases the life span. 

As for the guys on twitter I could care less about. AMD officially says 1.5v as a maximum. Period. Again I'm telling you just because you can do something DOES NOT mean you should.


----------



## exodusprime1337 (Nov 29, 2009)

chip degradation can happen at different voltages depending on outside conditions such as core temp, cleanliness of the electricity(clear wave form, low amount of fluctuation),  THE biggest factor on where a chip degrades is temperature.  AMD has stated time and time again that the "max safe voltage" is 1.5 on stock cooling, and that additional cooling and volts is nessessary to achieve higher oc.

Chip degradation can happen at 1.4v if yo push the chip up in frequency just causing more heat, the same thing will happen.  

On another note, even if chip degradation does occur, it takes years, much longer then the proccy will ever be used for.  I personally have been pushing 1.56v through my phenom 2 940 at 4.0Ghz since jan 26, and it runs like a champ.  

The defining factor on where you can push the phenom's to is the voltage.  Amd states more importantly that killing the life of the processor that "electron migration" will begin or can begin to occur around and above 1.62~~ volts iirc.  This general failure of ic's can happen to any ic that is currently in use, it's just the way it is, however electromigration is said to happen so far into the chips lifespan that even it is rarely a considered factor when determining how many volts to push through.

As far as amd chipsets not oc'ing... i'm not sure, i got my 790gx board at 275x14 right now to test the theory of not wanted to run a high fsb, and it's prime stable about 10 mins now, nb at 2800 or so and the htt link at about 2450...


----------



## cadaveca (Nov 29, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Ok lets get down to facts.
> 
> I said  Why? Because AMD states that the maximum on their 45nm chips is 1.5v. Thats before SEVER DEGRADATION. Understand that the higher the voltage the more electron migration you have no matter how cool you keep the chip. So with that being said anything above the stock voltage decreases the life span.
> 
> As for the guys on twitter I could care less about. AMD officially says 1.5v as a maximum. Period. Again I'm telling you just because you can do something DOES NOT mean you should.



But obviously you don't understand the basic principles of semiconductors.

OK, just a minute. Let me just say, I hope you don't take any of this too serious...I thoroughly enjoy discussions like this, so at this point I'll say thanks for continuing to dicuss this.

Now, both Sami Maekinen and Simon Solotko work @ AMD, and have for quite some time. These are the guys at preview events and press demos who show off what AMD cpus can do. Sami in particular...check out this vid:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Hf6d404QY&feature=channel

Dude who says "Ladies and gentlemen, we call this the abomination!".....Simon Solotko.


So when they tell me something is OK, i believe them.

So, as exodusprime says here:



exodusprime1337 said:


> chip degradation can happen at different voltages depending on outside conditions such as core temp, cleanliness of the electricity(clear wave form, low amount of fluctuation),  THE biggest factor on where a chip degrades is temperature.  AMD has stated time and time again that the "max safe voltage" is 1.5 on stock cooling, and that additional cooling and volts is nessessary to achieve higher oc.
> 
> Chip degradation can happen at 1.4v if yo push the chip up in frequency just causing more heat, the same thing will happen.
> 
> ...



You'll find that just above 300, the chip will start to loose USB at stock volts, and will require a boost in voltage. As long as you keep temps in check, it's perfectly fine...

This is the nature of semi-conductors. The amount of current they can handle, and how much leakage there is(higher leakage chips are more prone EM) changes with temps.

High leakage chips scale the best...I pushed and pushed for them to relase a high-leakage chip....and we got TWKR.

Yes, I personally take credit for those TWKR chips...it was my idea, and I can show my posts about this long before they came out.


The main issue I have with your claims, Mailman, is you state votlages that are known safe, on stock cooling. Provide more cooling, and the chip can take more...as exodus prime says, this voltage is around 1.625-1.7v.

If you can keep temps lower than 63c, 1.5v is fine. Go to lower than 55c, and 1.55v is fine, and even up to 60c or so will have the chip last 4-5 years, if not longer.


Yes, running these voltages at the limit of temps might cause damage...but usually to the mobo...and specifically to the PWM. Because of this, there are protections built into the board to prevent damage, called OCP. The chipset cam be damaged as well, sure...if you do not set other voltages and offsets properly...like the OLD 939 AMD chips, that needed cpuvolts to be 1/2 of DRAM volts at the extreme...when we we running 2.8v-3.0v memory. Running 1.25v on the cpu back then...the chip would die.


I showed a screenie of me pushing 1.57...and that bounces up to 1.6v, as the current the chip uses fluctuates. Excess current is converted into voltage. This is my daily voltage for my cpu, and I never change it. My cooling can handle it, so I leave it there.


If this chip dies...you better beleive you'll be hearing about it...


All voltages must meet specific ratios. It's like memory timings...there is a specific formula that needs to be used. Is all this info out in the public domain?

Nope. Some of it is...

But over the past 8 years or so, Ive been trying to bring more and more out....before we were able to select TRFC and TRD settings in bios, I was asking for it. the more voices we have asking for more info, the more we will get. So if I anger you a bit here...good..maybe it will be enough that you'll call up AMD and find out the truth for yourself.

I don't know where you get your info from, but I certainly hope it's not forums. Go direct, man. You might be amazed at how open these guys are...and really..they want to help! Lots of good folks out there, willing to lend a hand, or provide info that can help!


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## exodusprime1337 (Nov 29, 2009)

here is some screens from the data sheets for the phenom2s












and here is the brief from amd's page about the phenom 2 955 chips, hopefully this settles the issue....


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## cadaveca (Nov 29, 2009)

I love how that graph shows you can push 140w @ 64c. Guess what voltage that is?  The info is there, mailman. Compare the two, and it shows that with better cooling, the chip can handle more....


I already posted the link to the 955 page, and he changed his tune to say 1.5v was fine.


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## exodusprime1337 (Nov 29, 2009)

hey cadaveca are you familiar with the asus m3n-ht boards and it's bios?? i'm trying to get this thing back to 3.8 in x64 before i ditch it and go back to 4.0Ghz in x86.... i'm curious on what i can push for voltages for teh mcp northbridge, htt link, and vddb voltage...

I've always pushed for auto or 2.72 on the vddb settings, higest is 2.87 in 4 increments
the nb(not cpu nb) i push about 1.42-1.45 through it in x64, in x86 i can leave it on auto which is leading me to believe the nb is directly Correlating with my lack of oc possibility in x64.. however 1.45 seems pushing it in my book


the htt link i push to 1.36 or lower, however i find i can run a 3k htt link at 1.20 so i'm sure i'm well above.

Either way hitting 3.8 in x64 is turning out to be a chore... i'm at 3.75 @ 1.49v right now and i've been fine get 4.0 at 1.575v... 

btw if your curious about cooling i'm sitting idle at 28 and full load orthos at 43-46 under water, ambient of 20c.


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## Corduroy_Jr (Nov 29, 2009)

all i ever had was Amd from 754/939 to am2/am3 and not once i blew any cpu, only killed 2 boards which i don't think was my fault, Abit an8 3rd eye got a corrupted bios, Asus an8-e went died after swapping video cards for some odd reason, all the amd cpu's i had i overclock them, cranked up vcore highest the board would let me, they ran fairly cool, with the new phenom II i never go above 1.55v, had my asus m4a79-deluxe since march its been rock solid


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## cadaveca (Nov 29, 2009)

exodusprime1337 said:


> hey cadaveca are you familiar with the asus m3n-ht boards and it's bios?? i'm trying to get this thing back to 3.8 in x64 before i ditch it and go back to 4.0Ghz in x86.... i'm curious on what i can push for voltages for teh mcp northbridge, htt link, and vddb voltage...
> 
> I've always pushed for auto or 2.72 on the vddb settings, higest is 2.87 in 4 increments
> the nb(not cpu nb) i push about 1.42-1.45 through it in x64, in x86 i can leave it on auto which is leading me to believe the nb is directly Correlating with my lack of oc possibility in x64.. however 1.45 seems pushing it in my book
> ...





I don't do nV products, so I'm not sure. 

64-bit problems generally relate to cpu, as the cpu is never actually in "full" use under 32-bit like it is in X64.

Ergo, I always test in X64...and overclock should be able to handle ANY apps, for me.

I don't change HTT voltages. All i ever adjust is cpu and NB volts.


In regards to what voltages may be OK, when it comes to chipsets, look at who makes the silicon, and hceck other products under the same process...nV chipsets are most likely TSMC fabbed, so...


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## exodusprime1337 (Nov 29, 2009)

i gotcha, thanx for the input, it's just that at times things will be working fine for hours and then it will cease to boot... it's an odd issue... tbh i'm really just considering going back to x86 windows, i notice little to no difference in either(nobody flame, this is a personal observation only), i do enjoy having the extra 725megs of ram available, however i don't think i ever come close, in wow i'm using roughly 48% of my 4 gigs and 54% of my 3275MB in x86... either way i'm no where close to needing to go up with the memory or tied to x64... i'm gonna play around a bit more with it though and see what i can get out of it.


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## Wile E (Nov 29, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> Not you...those looking for 720BE that will hit 4ghz.
> 
> First, here's 955 product page...*max VID 1.5v*. that's 1.5v max, stock. (there goes your idea)
> 
> ...


Yeah, I am calling them liars, as many have already reported degradation at over 1.5v, even on water. Whether or not that's the majority doesn't matter, the fact remains that degradation is a possibility above stove voltage on any silicon, regardless of manufacturer or process used.


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## erocker (Nov 29, 2009)

I don't know why I'm in this thread, but you can run current AMD chips up to 1.55v on air cooling, straight from AMD's mouth. Anyways, your argument can stop here, let's get back to the original purpose of this thread and stop crapping all over it. If you want to continue your little back and forth, take it to PM's.


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## Solaris17 (Nov 29, 2009)

cadaveca said:


> But obviously you don't understand the basic principles of semiconductors.
> 
> OK, just a minute. Let me just say, I hope you don't take any of this too serious...I thoroughly enjoy discussions like this, so at this point I'll say thanks for continuing to dicuss this.
> 
> ...



LOL you seriously think like in all honesty that we would sincerely bealive that TWKR was your idea? like honestly? their is nothing in tweaker that is any diffirent from other processors in its series other than the fact that it was done on better silicone. Which along with the multi unlock is why they clock o so well. architecture wise they are the same. Not only that but their is not a single chance that a everyday person could say o hai can we have a high leak chip? and have it done. not even someone in AMD can do that. it is a team of people that must a gree on the direction they should bring their architecture and chips. So unless you can officialy prove you work for AMD can get all your architectual engineer buddies in here who can also prove they work for AMD. I totally call BS on this claim. Please before saying something like that try to give more stimulating info than the names of people you could get off of AMD's contact Us page or on a public twitter group. thanks

hi im Solaris17 and windows 7 was my idea


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## erocker (Nov 29, 2009)

Solaris17 said:


> LOL you seriously think like in all honesty that we would sincerely bealive that TWKR was your idea? like honestly? their is nothing in tweaker that is any diffirent from other processors in its series other than the fact that it was done on better silicone. Which along with the multi unlock is why they clock o so well. architecture wise they are the same. Not only that but their is not a single chance that a everyday person could say o hai can we have a high leak chip? and have it done. not even someone in AMD can do that. it is a team of people that must a gree on the direction they should bring their architecture and chips. So unless you can officialy prove you work for AMD can get all your architectual engineer buddies in here who can also prove they work for AMD. I totally call BS on this claim. Please before saying something like that try to give more stimulating info than the names of people you could get off of AMD's contact Us page or on a public twitter group. thanks
> 
> hi im Solaris17 and windows 7 was my idea



Way to flamebait more, I mean what I said here:



erocker said:


> I don't know why I'm in this thread, but you can run current AMD chips up to 1.55v on air cooling, straight from AMD's mouth. Anyways, your argument can stop here, let's get back to the original purpose of this thread and stop crapping all over it. If you want to continue your little back and forth, take it to PM's.



Now drop it.


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## Solaris17 (Nov 29, 2009)

erocker said:


> Way to flamebait more, I mean what I said here:
> 
> 
> 
> Now drop it.



my apologies i was still typing when you posted that. time stamp.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2009)

Lets continue the conversation here. So we can all learn.

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=109411

Maybe a nice mod could move some of the conversation there?


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## erocker (Nov 30, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Lets continue the conversation here. So we can all learn.
> 
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=109411
> 
> Maybe a nice mod could move some of the conversation there?



No, I said PM's.   I don't mod this section.. though I did technically. Now get out of this thread.


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## BraveSoul (Dec 1, 2009)

what an abrupt end of a such informing argument ,, o well,, lets get on with it,,   
 got a question for u pros.. 
higher NorthBridge frequency ups cpu voltage requirement true?


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## Enmity (Dec 1, 2009)

from what ive gathered, the nb at higher frequencies will cause more heat and thus might need  a little more voltage on the NB itself to keep stable, I haven't experienced needing more vcore because of a higher nb though.

 Im running 3.8Ghz with 1.504vcore with the NB at 2400Mhz. Ive left the nb voltage at stock which is proving to be really quite stable  so far.

Im by no means a pro, im just showing what ive experienced with my 940  
what voltages/settings do you run for your 3.8ghz oc?


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## BraveSoul (Dec 1, 2009)

used 1.55volts for 3.8   just benched with it, now experimenting with 2.8 at 1.2volts


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