# Ryzen 5 3600 turbo speeds



## AusWolf (Apr 26, 2021)

Hi,

I'm in the process of downgrading my Ryzen 9 5950X because I figured it would make sense with current hardware prices since I only ever use it for games anyway.

I bought a R5 3600 as a replacement because I liked the way it held an all-round 4200 MHz in the Techpowerup review. It doesn't do that for me, though. Instead, it fluctuates between 4050-4150 MHz depending on the load. Not a big deal, but it kind of bothers me, as I'd like to think the tests for the review were done with out-of-the-box settings.

What do I need to do to achieve the same stable turbo clock as in the review? I've got an ASUS Tuf Gaming B550M-Plus wifi motherboard with all auto bios settings, and a be quiet! Shadow Rock LP cooler coming later today - so far tested with the stock Wraith Stealth cooler, and a not so much better Arctic Alpine 64 Pro with similar results.


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## tabascosauz (Apr 26, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm in the process of downgrading my Ryzen 9 5950X because I figured it would make sense with current hardware prices since I only ever use it for games anyway.
> 
> ...



Interesting choice in downgrading.

That review is a launch day review from July 2019, I'd regard the boost frequency data with a grain of salt. There is much that we didn't understand about Ryzen 3000 back then. There is no 3600 that is boosting to 4.2GHz all-core constantly on stock settings and a slim cooler like you have, the most you'll generally get is about 4.15 that decays. The 4050-4150 that you see is pretty normal. This is corroborated by the fact that although it stayed at "4.2GHz" on all cores, a true all-core OC still yielded only 4.125GHz @ 1.37, all in that very review.

I'm pretty sure this was all before HWInfo even had the Effective Clock metric, which is rather important since the "Core Clock" metric is pretty much bullshit on Ryzen without Snapshot Polling enabled. Yeah, it'll display 4200MHz on Cores 0 through 5, but it doesn't mean anything.

Of course, because it's PB2, it still depends on load. On any Ryzen 3000 or 4000 chip you can very well see sustained 4.2GHz all-core.........in a memory stress test like TM5. But in a CPU benchmark? No, that's not how Ryzen 3000 worked. If you're on Ryzen 5000 6/8 core, you'll see much higher all-core, but the design of Matisse didn't allow for that high of all-core out of the box. Matisse was more "up to x GHz", while Vermeer is pretty much "at least x GHz".

You could try working with PBO and a stouter cooler (large tower or 240mm AIO), but as with all PBO that initially exciting frequency will still decay slowly with time unless you have an absolutely insane cooler under which temps never rise. Alternatively, you can try all-core if the silicon is good. If it's a recent production 3600, you shouldn't have any problems hitting 4.2GHz all core at under 1.3V.


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## WHDS (Apr 26, 2021)

It depends on the workload, my 3600 acts the same way. It's not realistic to achieve maximum boost clocks all the time, plus the extra 50-150 mhz won't provide any meaningful performance benefit


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## nguyen (Apr 26, 2021)

Yeah even with a X63 NZXT Kraken AIO and PBO enabled, my 3600 never reach 4200mhz turbo boost, mostly between 4050-4150mhz like yours. Eventually I settled for 4.1Ghz all-core at 1.37Vcore with temp in the low 70s in games, seems like AMD reserve the higher bin silicon for 3600X and 3600XT


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## AusWolf (Apr 26, 2021)

Interesting answers, thanks, guys. 

Honestly, a couple MHz isn't a big deal, it's just weird that the CPU performs differently compared to expectations based on the tpu review. 

As for my reasons to why I'm downgrading: I bought the 5950X with the intention to see how it'll perform in games in the coming years. I didn't expect hardware prices to rise so rapidly, but since they did, I got into my head that maybe a slower PC would serve me just fine with games at 1080p, and I could make some money for the summer holidays. Weird, I know, but I've never been the most reasonable person on the planet.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> 1.37Vcore


You sure that much voltage is a good idea?


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## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

Vanny said:


> You sure that much voltage is a good idea?



Still better than stock voltage with PBO I think, I have seen the voltage peak to 1.45Vcore in single core load. Anyways I have the Kraken X63 to keep it cool so no fret there, 1.37Vcore is perfectly safe for 24/7 if you have good cooling.


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## kapone32 (Apr 27, 2021)

The OP should be able to hit 4.4 GHZ with a 1.30 OC.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> I have seen the voltage peak to 1.45Vcore in single core load


Which is completely normal... how people still don't understand this is beyond me.

1.37v is way too much for an all core load on Zen 2 7nm, especially 4.1 all core where that chip would normally do 3.8-3.9 all core. But who am I to stop you from degrading your chip.


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## freeagent (Apr 27, 2021)

My 3600XT does 4400 with 1.268v and 4500 with 1.3375v, I think under 1.3 would be better for all core all loads.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 27, 2021)

freeagent said:


> My 3600XT does 4400 with 1.268v and 4500 with 1.3375v, I think under 1.3 would be better for all core all loads.


I decided to stop pretending like I know what the safe voltage for my 3900X is and just let the stock voltage fitness regulator do the thinking for me. 7nm doesn't tolerate voltage as well as 14nm. Running 4.1 at 1.37v seems like the best way to simultaneously get lower performance than stock _and_ pave a clear path to the early coffin for your CPU.

I've found that the best way to overclock a Zen 2 chip is to get a high end cooler and good motherboard with solid VRMs - I have both of those, and they do a much better job at overclocking my CPU than I could ever do with manual OC... while keeping the CPU's safety features and voltage regulator still active, which they're not when you manually OC.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Apr 27, 2021)

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/ejd5c9

Even 1.3v can degrade Zen2, there's reports of down to 1.28v degrading Zen2 based processors without any issues - perhaps research before providing misinformation?


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## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

Vanny said:


> Which is completely normal... how people still don't understand this is beyond me.
> 
> 1.37v is way too much for an all core load on Zen 2 7nm, especially 4.1 all core where that chip would normally do 3.8-3.9 all core. But who am I to stop you from degrading your chip.



Yeah I don't do rendering or Prime95 all day, just gaming. It was a set and forget overclock since I gave that PC to nephew over a year ago, no problem so far, not that it matter LOL. 

Seems like people like to stress test their PC with unrealistic testing condition like P95 or Furmark when all they do is gaming. All my overclocks are gaming stable only since all I do is gaming and that's it.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Yeah I don't do rendering or Prime95 all day, just gaming. It was a set and forget overclock since I gave that PC to nephew over a year ago, no problem so far, not that it matter LOL.
> 
> Seems like people like to stress test their PC with unrealistic testing condition like P95 or Furmark when all they do is gaming. All my overclocks are gaming stable only since all I do is gaming and that's it.


Doesn't matter if all you do is gaming. The chip will degrade at 1.37v under load (which includes gaming), as explained above. 7nm is not 14nm. Hope your nephew won't wake up to a black screen.


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## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

Vanny said:


> Doesn't matter if all you do is gaming. The chip will degrade at 1.37v under load (which includes gaming), as explained above. 7nm is not 14nm. Hope your nephew won't wake up to a black screen.



Nah degrading means it requires more voltage for a certain clocks, the chip won't die.
And no it won't degrade under gaming condition, that's taboo.


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## thesmokingman (Apr 27, 2021)

Vanny said:


> Which is completely normal... how people still don't understand this is beyond me.
> 
> 1.37v is way too much for an all core load on Zen 2 7nm, especially 4.1 all core where that chip would normally do 3.8-3.9 all core. But who am I to stop you from degrading your chip.


It's really surprising at this point, lol.


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## tabascosauz (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Yeah I don't do rendering or Prime95 all day, just gaming. It was a set and forget overclock since I gave that PC to nephew over a year ago, no problem so far, not that it matter LOL.
> 
> Seems like people like to stress test their PC with unrealistic testing condition like P95 or Furmark when all they do is gaming. All my overclocks are gaming stable only since all I do is gaming and that's it.



There's no clear-cut two sides to the argument, but I will say that unless you exclusively play old games it has more relevance than you might think. BFV uses AVX, heats up Ryzens like a mofo. MW2019 uses AVX, and as we all know will not only hammer CCD1 while in game but any background processing such as applying an update or installing shaders runs basically close to max all-core AVX. We all know how much of a clock penalty the PB2 algorithm automatically applies to AVX, it's not without reason.

Personally I wouldn't run over 1.3V set Vcore, but a lot of the "degradation" stories are also unverifiable. Ryzen is an absolute bitch to stability test, and what you thought was "stable" for a week may very well drop worker threads tomorrow in P95. Average user sees that result and deduces "my CPU must have degraded", when in reality it still does take a fair bit of effort or negligence to degrade these CPUs, eg. an hour of 1.5V all-core thanks to Clocktuner.

But yes, otherwise, gaming is not an all-core workload. Only constant all-core workloads at high current draw will actually run the risk of degradation.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Nah degrading means it requires more voltage for a certain clocks, the chip won't die.
> And no it won't degrade under gaming condition, that's taboo.


Well, can't say I didn't try. Just trying to prevent a 3600 ending up the same way as my friends' did, when all he did was gaming. Didn't take long for that chip to say goodbye. Not entirely, but after a while, it produced some of the nastiest lock-ups, freezes, and BSODs. Not sure if the marginal performance differences are even worth chip degradation.


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## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> There's no clear-cut two sides to the argument, but I will say that unless you exclusively play old games it has more relevance than you might think. BFV uses AVX, heats up Ryzens like a mofo. MW2019 uses AVX, and as we all know will not only hammer CCD1 while in game but any background processing such as applying an update or installing shaders runs basically close to max all-core AVX.
> 
> But yes, otherwise, gaming is not an all-core workload. Only constant all-core workloads at high current draw will actually run the risk of degradation.



Yeah degradation involves voltage, current and temperature. I mean enabling PBO alone already cause faster degradation because it allows higher current.



Vanny said:


> Well, can't say I didn't try. Just trying to prevent a 3600 ending up the same way as my friends' did, when all he did was gaming. Didn't take long for that chip to say goodbye. Not entirely, but after a while, it produced some of the nastiest lock-ups, freezes, and BSODs. Not sure if the marginal performance differences are even worth chip degradation.



Thanks but recently I sold my nephew's 2060S to miner (PC is mine) and slapped in a 1060, CPU is not doing much in games now . Also I set 1.37Vcore because I don't want to set high Load-line Calibration, because high load-line can actually damage CPU much worse than high Vcore, not that many people are aware of that.


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## AusWolf (Apr 27, 2021)

Thanks, everyone, but I'm not planning on overclocking.  I just want stable clocks with acceptable thermals - which brings me to my next problem. My be quiet! Shadow Rock LP has arrived, but this thing is still sitting at 50 C idle and hits 80 C as soon as I ask it to do something. I played around with the Windows power settings, disabled literally every performance increasing gimmick in BIOS (e.g. PBO, ASUS enhancements, etc.), still no effect. I never had this issue with the 5950X - maybe I should have gone with Vermeer again. *sigh*  Any advice?


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## thesmokingman (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Yeah degradation involves voltage, current and temperature. I mean enabling PBO alone already cause faster degradation because it allows higher current.


Wrong. Just by stating that you completely misunderstand the way the chip works. Like really man, why don't you read the link posted by L above instead of throwing out what you think is happening.

First PBO isn't even enabled at all. By default on auto... PBO is DISABLED. Thus you seeing 1.45v single threaded, it is one, NOT a high current situation and two regardless of whether PBO is on or off that is how the cpu is designed to operate. The silicon fitness monitor/controller will not fry the silicon it's meant to protect. /smh


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## Kissamies (Apr 27, 2021)

Personally I gave up on manual overclocking on AMD when I had my previous build with R5 2600. The gains are so minimal when comparing to all the cons so I trust PBO more.

And my 3600 usually stays on that 4200MHz when gaming. Cooled with modified Eisbaer 240 so it's semi-customloop.


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## tabascosauz (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Thanks, everyone, but I'm not planning on overclocking.  I just want stable clocks with acceptable thermals - which brings me to my next problem. My be quiet! Shadow Rock LP has arrived, but this thing is still sitting at 50 C idle and hits 80 C as soon as I ask it to do something. I played around with the Windows power settings, disabled literally every performance increasing gimmick in BIOS (e.g. PBO, ASUS enhancements, etc.), still no effect. I never had this issue with the 5950X - maybe I should have gone with Vermeer again. *sigh*  Any advice?



I dunno, if that's just on light load then that just sounds like a mounting/mounting pressure/contact issue. Especially if it's idling at 50C, without any noticeable background tasks going on. Ryzen idle is pretty annoying but it's easy to tell when it's actually idling and when it's running something in the background. New Be Quiet mounts on the DRP4 are an improvement but sometimes take a bit of fiddling compared to Secufirm.

I don't imagine the similarly sized Shadow Rock LP performs much worse than the NH-L12S, which is stout as hell and kept my 4650G at less than 65C at all times during the short time I had it. Renoir is slightly cooler but not by much. My NH-L9x65 now keeps the 4650G at under 70C at all times, I figure between Matisse and Renoir add about 10C to account for chiplets.

When I had my 3700X it crept closer to 80C under all-out CPU benchmarks under my NH-D9L, which is worse than my NH-U9S and performs about the same as the NH-L12S. IIRC the 3600 doesn't really run any cooler than the 3700X because it runs more wattage per core, and still takes up the 88W PPT and doesn't really "save" any PPT unlike the 5600X.

The 2019 Low-Profile Cooler Shootout: Crowning a Welterweight Champ | The Tech Buyer's Guru (techbuyersguru.com)

An all-core under 1.3V between 4.0-4.2GHz probably works out best for everyday thermals, but make sure it's not a mounting issue first.


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## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> Wrong. Just by stating that you completely misunderstand the way the chip works. Like really man, why don't you read the link posted by L above instead of throwing out what you think is happening.
> 
> First PBO isn't even enabled at all. By default on auto... PBO is DISABLED. Thus you seeing 1.45v single threaded, it is one, NOT a high current situation and two regardless of whether PBO is on or off that is how the cpu is designed to operate. The silicon fitness monitor/controller will not fry the silicon it's meant to protect. /smh



How about you read that link instead   .
Somehow you didn't read that the people who degraded their chips were stressed testing with P95 AVX, Linpack, etc for the hell of it....which are absolutely pointless for gaming PC. Furthermore those chips could have defects that are destined to fail no matter what the voltages are. 
Oh well I will tell you when my 3600 degrade in the future and how long did that take.

FYI Der8auer also tested for degradation with a couple of Ryzen 5000, let see how it goes.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 27, 2021)

3600 Silver sample owner here. Don't tinker with the thing manually. I pushed mine to 4.3GHz and it became unstable. Leave it at stock and use Ryzen Master to boost it.

I used ClockTuner to find out it was a silver sample. I was sure I could squeeze some more MHz out of the CPU only to find out it wasn't worth my time after all.


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## AusWolf (Apr 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I dunno, if that's just on light load then that just sounds like a mounting/mounting pressure/contact issue. Especially if it's idling at 50C, without any noticeable background tasks going on. Ryzen idle is pretty annoying but it's easy to tell when it's actually idling and when it's running something in the background. New Be Quiet mounts on the DRP4 are an improvement but sometimes take a bit of fiddling compared to Secufirm.
> 
> I don't imagine the similarly sized Shadow Rock LP performs much worse than the NH-L12S, which is stout as hell and kept my 4650G at less than 65C at all times during the short time I had it. Renoir is slightly cooler but not by much. My NH-L9x65 now keeps the 4650G at under 70C at all times, I figure between Matisse and Renoir add about 10C to account for chiplets.
> 
> ...


I don't think it is. I've tried 3 different coolers so far with similar results. The voltage jumps between 1 and 1.4 V even in idle. No setting seems to influence this behaviour. No such issue with the 5950X, or with the 3100 before that. Why can't this thing just simply work?


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Thanks, everyone, but I'm not planning on overclocking.  I just want stable clocks with acceptable thermals - which brings me to my next problem. My be quiet! Shadow Rock LP has arrived, but this thing is still sitting at 50 C idle and hits 80 C as soon as I ask it to do something. I played around with the Windows power settings, disabled literally every performance increasing gimmick in BIOS (e.g. PBO, ASUS enhancements, etc.), still no effect. I never had this issue with the 5950X - maybe I should have gone with Vermeer again. *sigh*  Any advice?



Paste, cooler not seated properly, or naff cooler fan perhaps, Bios maybe?  I purchased some TG Aeronaut and used a Thermaltake UX200 cooler on my 3600. Never had problems with temps at all. That was in an ITX build with both B550 and B450 boards. I also swapped out the coolers generic fan for a Corsair SP120.


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## tabascosauz (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I don't think it is. I've tried 3 different coolers so far with similar results. The voltage jumps between 1 and 1.4 V even in idle. No setting seems to influence this behaviour. No such issue with the 5950X, or with the 3100 before that. Why can't this thing just simply work?



I mean, being the owner of a 3100 and 5950X you should already know by now that's just normal idle Vcore behaviour when monitoring with anything other than Ryzen Master......only way is to just get used to it, eliminate any background processes that are hogging resources (e.g. CAM), or do a static OC.

We have the exact same board, no crazy thermals for me on either the 3700X, 4650G (tested once in this board), or 5900X through a lot of different BIOS revisions since last May. Sounds like the fan curve might need to be more aggressive (has been my experience with BQ case and cooler fans that they don't push much air at all unless they really spin up). But then again, the low profile cooler roundup does have the Shadow Rock LP performing barely any better than the Wraith Spire (which you'd expect to see at 80-85C in benchmarks), so it seems like that's just par for the course.

Are you using the mATX tower in your specs or the slim case in your sig? If the former, just get a 92mm or 120mm tower cooler like the U9S/U12S/212 Black and be done with it. If the latter, I'd just get a L12S and double check your paste/mounting pressure. The Shadow Rock is not a performance oriented cooler in the slightest.

Only other thing I can think of is to remember to clear your CMOS when you swap CPUs. The Asus BIOS should do it automatically but still, good practice. Ryzen 5000 and 3000 work somewhat differently and expose different settings in the BIOS.


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## AusWolf (Apr 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I mean, being the owner of a 3100 and 5950X you should already know by now that's just normal idle Vcore behaviour when monitoring with anything other than Ryzen Master......only way is to just get used to it, eliminate any background processes that are hogging resources (e.g. CAM), or do a static OC.
> 
> We have the exact same board, no crazy thermals for me on either the 3700X, 4650G (tested once in this board), or 5900X through a lot of different BIOS revisions since last May. Sounds like the fan curve might need to be more aggressive (has been my experience with BQ case and cooler fans that they don't push much air at all unless they really spin up). But then again, the low profile cooler roundup does have the Shadow Rock LP performing barely any better than the Wraith Spire (which you'd expect to see at 80-85C in benchmarks), so it seems like that's just par for the course.
> 
> ...


Sorry for not specifying earlier: I'm using the slim case. I didn't expect the Shadow Rock LP to do a miracle, just to cool a 65 W TDP CPU under normal conditions. I'll try reinstalling it with some Arctic MX-4, but I doubt it'll make any difference.

I mentioned the 5950X and 3100 because I never had any thermal issues with them. The 3100 barely went above 50 C under full load with the Wraith Stealth. I never expected such a huge difference in heat output between the 3100 and 3600.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Somehow you didn't read that the people who degraded their chips were stressed testing with P95 AVX, Linpack, etc for the hell of it....which are absolutely pointless for gaming PC.


And yet you're pushing your CPU beyond specification without stress testing? Suppose 'gaming' nowadays consists of frequent blue screens? And not to mention, plenty of games use heavy AVX, but hey have fun degrading I guess.


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## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

_L_ said:


> And yet you're pushing your CPU beyond specification without stress testing? Suppose 'gaming' nowadays consists of frequent blue screens? And not to mention, plenty of games use heavy AVX, but hey have fun degrading I guess.



Yeah sure whatever dude
Check out Der8aur pushing his 5800X with 1.4Vcore and it hasn't degraded in 2 months of constant Timespy Physic test
Stop talking like you know stuff please


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## QuietBob (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> My be quiet! Shadow Rock LP has arrived, but this thing is still sitting at 50 C idle


Have you checked your idle core behavior in Ryzen Master? When truly idle, they should be showing as "sleep". Also, which power plan are you using? Under advanced settings, what is your minimum processor state?


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## Deleted member 178884 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Stop talking like you know stuff please


That's bold coming from somebody who doesn't know what a stress test is, and is claiming 1.37V is "24/7 safe" where's your evidence for this (read: you have none)


nguyen said:


> Check out Der8aur pushing his 5800X with 1.4Vcore and it hasn't degraded in 2 months of constant Timespy Physic test


And? This is a test across 3 samples out of millions made, it's not representative of *all processors made* and in zen2, the FIT voltage actually varies. Not to mention Timespy Physics isn't intensive as some games are and the load generally doesn't fluctuate as much.

Either way citation needed, "I stuck 1.6V into my 7980XE and it's safe because I run it at that, most certainly safe for 24/7" *provides no evidence of it being representative of all processors*"


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## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

_L_ said:


> That's bold coming from somebody who doesn't know what a stress test is, and is claiming 1.37V is "24/7 safe" where's your evidence for this (read: you have none)
> 
> And? This is a test across 3 samples out of millions made, it's not representative of *all processors made* and in zen2, the FIT voltage actually varies. Not to mention Timespy Physics isn't intensive as some games are and the load generally doesn't fluctuate as much.



Just watch the video before talking nonsense please, Der8auer has much more credibility than you have.
Also I run my 3600 at that voltage for a whole year already, so that's my evidence against your nonsense.

And if you like to kill your CPU and GPU faster with Prime95 AVX or Furmark with stock voltages, go right ahead.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Just watch the video before talking nonsense please, Der8auer has much more credibility than you have.
> Also I run my 3600 at that voltage for a whole year already, so that's my evidence against your nonsense.


You run one chip at that voltage for a year and it's fine and suddenly that's representative of all CPUs made there? I guess you should replace The Silt then after all you can outdo thousands of processors being tested and proclaim you know safe voltages whilst throwing weightless claims without any citation. And der8auer has more credibility for running three processors at 1.4V on a light load? Lol okay bro, maybe you should be the one not talking nonsense.

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/eu3fbl


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/ejd5c9


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		https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/es754x


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		https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/ej8uqa



nguyen said:


> And if you like to kill your CPU and GPU faster with Prime95 AVX or Furmark with stock voltages, go right ahead.


Do you feel the same way about RAM stress testing, can imagine you overclock that too and run the OS into to the ground.


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## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

_L_ said:


> You run one chip at that voltage for a year and it's fine and suddenly that's representative of all CPUs made there? I guess you should replace The Silt then after all you can outdo thousands of processors being tested and proclaim you know safe voltages whilst throwing weightless claims without any citation. And der8auer has more credibility for running three processors at 1.4V on a light load? Lol okay bro, maybe you should be the one not talking nonsense.
> Do you feel the same way about RAM stress testing, can imagine you overclock that too and run the OS into to the ground.



You really have no statistics beyond anecdotal evidence of some chumps putting their CPU under unrealistic load.
Also your knowledge is really lacking it is quite worrying.
What kill the chip are not voltages, it's power and heat. Power = Voltage x Current

Here is the quote from your beloved Stilt:
"According to FIT, the safe voltage levels for the silicon are around 1.325V in high-current loads and up to 1.47V in low-current loads (i.e ST), depending on the silicon characteristics." - The Stilt


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## freeagent (Apr 27, 2021)

What might be unrealistic to you could be a daily thing to someone else.. as in real world.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> You really have no statistics beyond anecdotal evidence of some chums putting their CPU under unrealistic load.
> Also your knowledge is really lacking it is quite worrying.
> What kill the chip are not voltages, it's power and heat. Power = Voltage x Current


Link me to the AMD datasheets showing loadline specification and ICCMax current.... oh wait.
Also, yes the formula is correct, but you're ignoring the fact you're shoving 1.37V when there's high current games or similar occurring which can more than easily degrade the CPU under hundreds of hours of gaming, not to even mention this is one CPU out of hundreds that have been tested & degraded. 


nguyen said:


> Here is the quote from your beloved Stilt:
> "According to FIT, the safe voltage levels for the silicon are around 1.325V in high-current loads and up to 1.47V in low-current loads (i.e ST), depending on the silicon characteristics." - The Stilt


Now learn to read and you'll read *"depending on the silicon characteristics."*

So either way, how this is singular chip representative of all of them? Care to enlighten us? Or are you not reading anything you post like some sort of clown?


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## AusWolf (Apr 27, 2021)

QuietBob said:


> Have you checked your idle core behavior in Ryzen Master? When truly idle, they should be showing as "sleep". Also, which power plan are you using? Under advanced settings, what is your minimum processor state?


I never managed to make Ryzen Master work for some reason. When I tried to install it last time, it said it's already installed, but I still can't find it anywhere.

Instead, I use HWinfo for reporting, which never reports clocks going below around 3-3.3 GHz, although the effective clocks are way down, so I suspect everything is OK in that regard. Now I tried disabling PBO, and it's sitting at 3.6 GHz reported idle with a 21 W power consumption and 43 C.

A random thought: is there any way I can influence PBO/PPT from BIOS to keep the processor under 65 W?


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## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

freeagent said:


> What might be unrealistic to you could be a daily thing to someone else.. as in real world.



Understandable, if I were to do rendering (which i don't) or video editing (which I also don't) then I would be using a lower PPT and Voltages.
Still I don't like people who just stress testing for fun and break the crap outta their hardware and just return them to the store, it's scream dishonesty.


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## WHDS (Apr 27, 2021)

Can we not just agree to disagree? There is plenty of information about these things for someone to make a reasonable judgement. At the end of the day, it's your cpu, do with it what you will. Personally, stock with a mem oc is what I run and am very happy with it.


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## tabascosauz (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Sorry for not specifying earlier: I'm using the slim case. I didn't expect the Shadow Rock LP to do a miracle, just to cool a 65 W TDP CPU under normal conditions. I'll try reinstalling it with some Arctic MX-4, but I doubt it'll make any difference.
> 
> I mentioned the 5950X and 3100 because I never had any thermal issues with them. The 3100 barely went above 50 C under full load with the Wraith Stealth. I never expected such a huge difference in heat output between the 3100 and 3600.



I understand that the NH-L12S isn't cheap, but if you can get that cooler I can at least give you a bit of a benchmark with the L12S that I had and experience from the old-ass D9L I own. Then we can tell if something seems off about the thermals. When applying MX-4 make sure the spread ends up covering the heatspreader - AM4 has a big IHS and the ol' LGA115x pea method often is inadequate. Fair sized rice grain is good usually.

The 3100 is known for somewhat abnormally being one of the coolest running Ryzens, it's worlds away from the 3300X which behaves thermally much like a 3600 or 3700X would. The power draw is pretty conservative, and thermal density is as low as can be. It won't be much a useful metric when comparing to any other Matisse CPU.

I looked up the Aerocool case, and it looks like case airflow is quite poor. That's going to have quite the impact, as my temp data on the Noctuas is gathered either in a Cerberus with 2 x A14 intakes and 1 x A9 exhaust, a NCASE with 3 x A12x25 intakes and 1 x A9x14 exhaust, a HT5 with 2 x A8 exhausts directly adjacent to the CPU cooler, or an open bench. So if the Shadow Rock LP is running in the low to mid-80s during a CPU benchmark, I'd say that's not far off the mark given the airflow situation in that case. Any more and you gotta look into your cooler mounting or paste.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I never managed to make Ryzen Master work for some reason. When I tried to install it last time, it said it's already installed, but I still can't find it anywhere.


Never had that issue at all. I suggest you try again by searching in your C: drive for the AMD folder and see if it really is installed.
I usually grab the latest chipset drivers from the AMD site also because the one's from the mobo vendor can be slightly out of date.


----------



## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

_L_ said:


> Link me to the AMD datasheets showing loadline specification and ICCMax current.... oh wait.
> Also, yes the formula is correct, but you're ignoring the fact you're shoving 1.37V when there's high current games or similar occurring which can more than easily degrade the CPU under hundreds of hours of gaming, not to even mention this is one CPU out of hundreds that have been tested & degraded.
> 
> Now learn to read and you'll read *"depending on the silicon characteristics."*
> ...



Well my nephew had like couple thousand of hours playing on my 3600 rig, no problem so far. Show me which game use high current please   
Sure if it dies in a few years I will make a keychain outta it, happy?


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Show me which game use high current please


BF V, Warzone? There's literally plenty out there, dying they don't exist is quite the cope.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 27, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> 3600 Silver sample owner here. Don't tinker with the thing manually. I pushed mine to 4.3GHz and it became unstable. Leave it at stock and use Ryzen Master to boost it.
> 
> I used ClockTuner to find out it was a silver sample. I was sure I could squeeze some more MHz out of the CPU only to find out it wasn't worth my time after all.


All ClockTuner did was shove 1.55v down my CPU's throat then have the audacity to run a light AVX test. Never gonna use anything made by 1usmus again.


----------



## AusWolf (Apr 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I understand that the NH-L12S isn't cheap, but if you can get that cooler I can at least give you a bit of a benchmark with the L12S that I had and experience from the old-ass D9L I own. Then we can tell if something seems off about the thermals. When applying MX-4 make sure the spread ends up covering the heatspreader - AM4 has a big IHS and the ol' LGA115x pea method often is inadequate. Fair sized rice grain is good usually.
> 
> The 3100 is known for somewhat abnormally being one of the coolest running Ryzens, it's worlds away from the 3300X which behaves thermally much like a 3600 or 3700X would. The power draw is pretty conservative, and thermal density is as low as can be. It won't be much a useful metric when comparing to any other Matisse CPU.
> 
> I looked up the Aerocool case, and it looks like case airflow is quite poor. That's going to have quite the impact, as my temp data on the Noctuas is gathered either in a Cerberus with 2 x A14 intakes and 1 x A9 exhaust, a NCASE with 3 x A12x25 intakes and 1 x A9x14 exhaust, a HT5 with 2 x A8 exhausts directly adjacent to the CPU cooler, or an open bench. So if the Shadow Rock LP is running in the low to mid-80s during a CPU benchmark, I'd say that's not far off the mark given the airflow situation in that case. Any more and you gotta look into your cooler mounting or paste.


Thanks for helping so much. 

I loved my 3100 to bits for being so economical. Maybe I'll just dig it out of my drawer, pop it back into the mobo and call it a day.  I'm sure it would be plenty powerful for the low profile GTX 1650 I bought for it.

Speaking of cases, I bought this one originally for a HTPC, but I thought why not use it as my main PC as it has a huge grate on its side for CPU air intake. It always had the 3100 running around 45-50 degrees with the tiny Wraith Stealth even at full load. Maybe that grate doesn't help with the 3600 as much as I thought.

Other thing: I managed to find the PPT setting in the BIOS. With it set to 65 W, PBO enabled, the CPU runs at the low 70s under a Cinebench run. Weird thing that now HWinfo reports clocks between 4-4.1 GHz, while Windows Task Manager got stuck at 3.6 GHz. Idle clock reporting is also all over the place.


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## freeagent (Apr 27, 2021)

My cooling is set up to take the heat the most intense apps have to give. I wouldn't give my XT more than 1.3 for hardcore stuff. The CPU just cant take it. I'm sure it can but for how long? Some CPUs love voltage and others hate it, depends on which part of the wafer it originates from. That is probably what The Stilt meant about silicon characteristics..

But I am a little out of my element here so


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## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 27, 2021)

I wouldn't give my CPU more than stock operation. I want this thing to last. Giving it 1.3v or more is a surefire way of ensuring it doesn't last.


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## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

_L_ said:


> BF V, Warzone? There's literally plenty out there, dying they don't exist is quite the cope.



3600 @ 4.2Ghz all core OCed









3600 pulling  60W at 1080p is hardly anything to worry about vs 200W stress testing under Prime95 AVX.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (Apr 27, 2021)

Vanny said:


> All ClockTuner did was shove 1.55v down my CPU's throat then have the audacity to run a light AVX test. Never gonna use anything made by 1usmus again.



LOL it did the same and I'm with you 110% about that software. Really not worth tinkering with the 3600 unless you are playing to kill it outright.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> 3600 @ 4.2Ghz all core OCed


Unless I'm missing something, nothing about OCing is mentioned and the description says the CPU is running on stock (as it should).


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> 3600 @ 4.2Ghz all core OCed
> COD: Warzone - GTX 1660 Super + Ryzen 5 3600 - 1080p, 1440p & 4K - Low & High Settings - Season 1






I don't see 1.37V set, and how would this again, be representative of the long term and all CPUs?


----------



## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

Vanny said:


> Unless I'm missing something, nothing about OCing is mentioned and the description says the CPU is running on stock (as it should).



wrong clip LOL, fixed


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Thanks for helping so much.
> 
> I loved my 3100 to bits for being so economical. Maybe I'll just dig it out of my drawer, pop it back into the mobo and call it a day.  I'm sure it would be plenty powerful for the low profile GTX 1650 I bought for it.
> 
> ...



The side vents are good for downdraft coolers like the L9x65/Shadow Rock LP/L12/L12S/Dark Rock TF/C14S. It's just that you can't rely on the CPU cooler alone for airflow in SFF. When I chose the 5.3L HT5 for my Renoir HTPC I specifically wanted it for the ability to run the 2 x 80mm Noctuas to exhaust air in the immediate vicinity of the CPU and RAM. Technically, I could have gone with a Velka 3RL or similar but I'd just be hotboxing the Bdie.

Partly because B-die is temp sensitive at low tRFC, but also because downdraft coolers just dump hot air into the case in all directions. They need either convection + very unrestrictive venting, or fans to help extract that hot air from the case, or both or perform optimally. If the case has plenty of intake venting for the downdraft cooler but little provision for fan or natural exhaust, temps are really going to climb in there. And that's not helping your CPU, GPU or RAM.

HWInfo's Effective Clock metric is all you should care about when under meaningful CPU load. That, or run Snapshot Polling on and use the regular CPU clock numbers. Task manager is trying to be too many things it's not these days.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> wrong clip LOL, fixed


And yet, it's nowhere near representative of anything even remotely long-term and still no citation that this is safe over an extensive period of time, it's also ignoring the fact that all-core loads exist and the CPU can process things in the background (antivirus scans) or similar things....


----------



## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

_L_ said:


> And yet, it's nowhere near representative of anything even remotely long-term and still no citation that this is safe over an extensive period of time, it's also ignoring the fact that all-core loads exist and the CPU can process things in the background (antivirus scans) or similar things....



Truth is no one knows LOL, that includes you. That's the reason why Der8auer set out to find out.
So don't talk like it's set in stone what the safe voltages are when all you have are anecdotal evidences.


----------



## AusWolf (Apr 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> The side vents are good for downdraft coolers like the L9x65/Shadow Rock LP/L12/L12S/Dark Rock TF/C14S. It's just that you can't rely on the CPU cooler alone for airflow in SFF. When I chose the 5.3L HT5 for my Renoir HTPC I specifically wanted it for the ability to run the 2 x 80mm Noctuas to exhaust air in the immediate vicinity of the CPU and RAM. Technically, I could have gone with a Velka 3RL or similar but I'd just be hotboxing the Bdie.
> 
> Partly because B-die is temp sensitive at low tRFC, but also because downdraft coolers just dump hot air into the case in all directions. They need either convection + very unrestrictive venting, or fans to help extract that hot air from the case, or both or perform optimally. If the case has plenty of intake venting for the downdraft cooler but little provision for fan or natural exhaust, temps are really going to climb in there. And that's not helping your CPU, GPU or RAM.
> 
> HWInfo's Effective Clock metric is all you should care about when under meaningful CPU load. That, or run Snapshot Polling on and use the regular CPU clock numbers. Task manager is trying to be too many things it's not these days.


I have an 80 mm fan just above the CPU cooler acting as exhaust. It's doing something, but not enough, I guess. With the side of the case taken off, PBO enabled and PPT auto (~80 W power consumption), I get 76-77 C in Cinebench.

Honestly, I'm quite disappointed in the 3600 so far. If I knew that the difference in heat output compared to the 3100 would be so huge, I wouldn't have bought it.


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> That's the reason why Der8auer set out to find out.


On 3 CPUs, lol... how delusional are you going to be? 


nguyen said:


> So don't talk like it's set in stone what the safe voltages are when all you have are anecdotal evidences.


On a lot more than just "4" CPUs, there's literally plenty of evidence and all you have is puny deflections or completely missing the point and absolutely zero testing to prove.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Truth is no one knows LOL, that includes you. That's the reason why Der8auer set out to find out.
> So don't talk like it's set in stone what the safe voltages are when all you have are anecdotal evidences.


I'm willing to pay for that chip when it eventually dies, it's gonna be a nice addition to my keychain collection. Right next to it will be my friends' 3600 which he killed using the same amount of ludicrous voltage combined with not listening to me, in a matter of months.


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## nguyen (Apr 27, 2021)

Vanny said:


> I'm willing to pay for that chip when it eventually dies, it's gonna be a nice addition to my keychain collection. Right next to it will be my friends' 3600 which he killed using the same amount of ludicrous voltage combined with not listening to me, in a matter of months.



Sure, let see how long it lasts LOL.


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## Zach_01 (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I have an 80 mm fan just above the CPU cooler acting as exhaust. It's doing something, but not enough, I guess. With the side of the case taken off, PBO enabled and PPT auto (~80 W power consumption), I get 76-77 C in Cinebench.
> 
> Honestly, I'm quite disappointed in the 3600 so far. If I knew that the difference in heat output compared to the 3100 would be so huge, I wouldn't have bought it.


What is the PowerReportingDaviation (PRD) and PPT during (and only during) that Cinebench run?


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## AusWolf (Apr 27, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> What is the PowerReportingDaviation (PRD) and PPT during (and only during) that Cinebench run?


PRD is 88-89% and PPT is 80 W.


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## Toothless (Apr 27, 2021)

Just a dumb question, did you remove the plastic from the bottom of the cooler? What are the fan curves set at? Is there air going into the case? If possible a picture would help.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I have an 80 mm fan just above the CPU cooler acting as exhaust. It's doing something, but not enough, I guess. With the side of the case taken off, PBO enabled and PPT auto (~80 W power consumption), I get 76-77 C in Cinebench.
> 
> Honestly, I'm quite disappointed in the 3600 so far. If I knew that the difference in heat output compared to the 3100 would be so huge, I wouldn't have bought it.


I really cannot see why you're having issues. My ITX case has the usual push / pull config and works fine. 2 x 120mm Corsair fans at the front and one at the rear + the one on the cooler. The possible only difference to yours is I have the rear lid off to dispurse heat from my M.2 drive that's attached to the back of my mobo (Do you have an M.2 drive on the rear of your mobo without a heat sink?)

I'm asking because after leaving the rear lid on my case with the M.2 drive, seeing temps rise to chicken cooking level, then removing the rear panel and watching temps drop significantly, is what might be your problem here.


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## AusWolf (Apr 27, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Just a dumb question, did you remove the plastic from the bottom of the cooler? What are the fan curves set at? Is there air going into the case? If possible a picture would help.


I did the most recent test with the case open. My cooler came with thermal paste pre-installed, there was no plastic aside from the cover to protect the TIM. Fan curves on BIOS standard.



Hemmingstamp said:


> I really cannot see why you're having issues. My ITX case has the usual push / pull config and works fine. 2 x 120mm Corsair fans at the front and one at the rear + the one on the cooler. The possible only difference to yours is I have the rear lid off to dispurse heat from my M.2 drive that's attached to the back of my mobo (Do you have an M.2 drive on the rear of your mobo without a heat sink?)


It puzzles me too. The Shadow Rock LP should dissipate 80 W of heat without any issue. I have no m.2 drive on the rear.

Edit: I'll try with Arctic MX-4 thermal paste tomorrow, but I don't expect much change. If nothing happens, I'll just disable Turbo altogether (or pop the 3100 back in and call it a day for the 3600).


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## Toothless (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I did the most recent test with the case open. My cooler came with thermal paste pre-installed, there was no plastic aside from the cover to protect the TIM. Fan curves on BIOS standard.
> 
> 
> It puzzles me too. The Shadow Rock LP should dissipate 80 W of heat without any issue. I have no m.2 drive on the rear.


Pop open HWinfo and do a quick CPUz bench. We'll see what the chip maxes out at. Just because it says "max xx tdp" doesn't mean it won't go above it.


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## Zach_01 (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> PRD is 88-89% and PPT is 80 W.


80 / 0.88 = 90
The real power consumption of the CPU is 90W during that test. And if it had run cooler it would be even higher.
R3 3100 doesn't come close to that. 3300X is closer to a 3600 in terms of total power consumption.

This is mine during R20 but with better cooling


Around 92~93W real.


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## AusWolf (Apr 27, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> 80 / 0.88 = 90
> The real power consumption of the CPU is 90W during that test. And if it had run cooler it would be even higher.
> R3 3100 doesn't come close to that. 3300X is closer to a 3600 in terms of total power consumption.
> 
> ...


If you manage 61 C with a 280 mm AIO, then I guess 80 C isn't that bad for a slim SFF build.


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## Toothless (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> If you manage 61 C with a 280 mm AIO, then I guess 80 C isn't that bad for a slim SFF build.


Gotta remember, these are tiny heat generators. Smaller than previous generations. A bit harder to cool too.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I did the most recent test with the case open. My cooler came with thermal paste pre-installed, there was no plastic aside from the cover to protect the TIM. Fan curves on BIOS standard.
> 
> 
> It puzzles me too. The Shadow Rock LP should dissipate 80 W of heat without any issue. I have no m.2 drive on the rear.
> ...



I'd go with what Toothless has suggested. But I will add that you should try the latest AMD chipset from their site as it may include fixes although I haven't looked lately. And I would also try and get Ryen Master up and running before throwing in the towel.


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## Zach_01 (Apr 27, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Gotta remember, these are tiny heat generators. Smaller than previous generations.


That is the "issue" with 7nm. High heat density.


AusWolf said:


> If you manage 61 C with a 280 mm AIO, then I guess 80 C isn't that bad for a slim SFF build.


And with Liquid Metal for TIM. That help dropping a few deg more.

EDIT: typo


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## freeagent (Apr 27, 2021)

You should check out those new gen Thermalright coolers.. they take the heat away


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## Toothless (Apr 27, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> That is the "issue" with 7nm. High heat density.
> 
> And with Liquid Metal for TIM. That hepled dropping a few deg more.


Heat and sensitive to current. At least they're not pulling 200w+ like a new generation we know,


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## Zach_01 (Apr 27, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Heat and sensitive to current.


Yes I should have said one of the issues...
The CPU must run really cool to allow more current.


----------



## thesmokingman (Apr 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Truth is no one knows LOL, that includes you. That's the reason why Der8auer set out to find out.
> So don't talk like it's set in stone what the safe voltages are when all you have are anecdotal evidences.


Seriously, what is your malfunction? There is no godamn safe voltage on Ryzen 2/3. It's freaking 2021, Zen 3 has been out a year, and you troll us all by suggesting waiting for an overclocker to do degradation testing on Zen 2, when it's old fucking news? Apparently most ppl know how these cpus work but you. Read up and stop doubling down on stupid.


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## tabascosauz (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I have an 80 mm fan just above the CPU cooler acting as exhaust. It's doing something, but not enough, I guess. With the side of the case taken off, PBO enabled and PPT auto (~80 W power consumption), I get 76-77 C in Cinebench.
> 
> Honestly, I'm quite disappointed in the 3600 so far. If I knew that the difference in heat output compared to the 3100 would be so huge, I wouldn't have bought it.



How do your temps look if you max out your CPU fan and 80mm fan speed in BIOS?

Between strictly stock settings and PBO just "Enabled", PBO can contribute a fair bit to extra power and heat without providing much of a performance uplift. PBO Auto should always be functionally equivalent to Disabled, but you never know what bugs there might be in firmware.

All things considered it looks pretty normal. The only way I could get down to 71C in Cinebench on my old 83A PBO profile on my former 3700X was with a Dark Rock Pro 4. Otherwise, when stock, it held at about 68C or so.


----------



## QuietBob (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I never managed to make Ryzen Master work for some reason. When I tried to install it last time, it said it's already installed, but I still can't find it anywhere.


Here's the path where it installs: "C:\Program Files\AMD\RyzenMaster\bin\AMD Ryzen Master.exe"



Zach_01 said:


> 3300X is closer to a 3600 in terms of total power consumption.


In addition to being more difficult to cool. While having the same TDP as the 3600 and 3700X, all the heat is generated by a single CCX. Here's mine after 30" of R20, with 24C ambient:







freeagent said:


> You should check out those new gen Thermalright coolers.. they take the heat away


Also a big fan of Thermalright, the temp above courtesy of the Macho rev.C. Manual oc actually brought it down by 3 degs from stock.


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## Zach_01 (Apr 27, 2021)

QuietBob said:


> In addition to being more difficult to cool. While having the same TDP as the 3600 and 3700X, all the heat is generated by a single CCX. Here's mine after 30" of R20, with 24C ambient:


You have a static OC so its not easy to compare. There is a point on what you say.

3100, 3300X, 3600 all are 65W TDP CPUs but that is not their actual consumption (PPT).
65W TDP is their minimum cooling requirements stated by AMD and nothing else.

From a little research, for example on a yCruncher load the CPU power is like this
R3 3100: ~60W
R3 3300X: 75~80W
R5 3600: 80~90W

Between 3100 and 3600 the difference is huge (+35~50%).
R3 3100 should have a 45~50W TDP label.


----------



## docnorth (Apr 27, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Thanks, everyone, but I'm not planning on overclocking.  I just want stable clocks with acceptable thermals - which brings me to my next problem. My be quiet! Shadow Rock LP has arrived, but this thing is still sitting at 50 C idle and hits 80 C as soon as I ask it to do something. I played around with the Windows power settings, disabled literally every performance increasing gimmick in BIOS (e.g. PBO, ASUS enhancements, etc.), still no effect. I never had this issue with the 5950X - maybe I should have gone with Vermeer again. *sigh*  Any advice?


Those be-quiet coolers might need a better paste.


----------



## AusWolf (Apr 29, 2021)

After a little testing, I decided to use the 3100 for now, and pass the 3600 on to a friend who's in need of a new CPU anyway. It's a good CPU, but not for my use case it seems.

The little 3100 maxes out at 68 C in Cinebench all-core with the stock aluminium cube Wraith Stealth cooler on the Silent fan profile in BIOS. It'll probably be enough to feed my low profile GTX 1650, and I'll look at Intel's yard again for a replacement. We can say all bad things about their prehistoric 14 nm production node, but at least their TDP values aren't rainbow unicorn farts from the sky.

Sure, AMD "cares about gamers", but it seems they don't care much about people with cooling constraints. I mean, if there is a 3600X and non-X, why not differentiate the two with a lower TDP for the non-X variant, kind of like Intel's K and non-K lines? Oh well, what do I know... I'm just a random guy trying to cool a CPU in a slim case. 



QuietBob said:


> Here's the path where it installs: "C:\Program Files\AMD\RyzenMaster\bin\AMD Ryzen Master.exe"


There's no AMD folder in my Program Files, but the installer still says it can't proceed because it's installed.  No worries, I've never been a big fan of software control anyway.



QuietBob said:


> In addition to being more difficult to cool. While having the same TDP as the 3600 and 3700X, all the heat is generated by a single CCX. Here's mine after 30" of R20, with 24C ambient:
> View attachment 198345
> 
> 
> Also a big fan of Thermalright, the temp above courtesy of the Macho rev.C. Manual oc actually brought it down by 3 degs from stock.


70 C with a tower cooler and 68 Watts of package power? That's just... wow!  I'm starting to think that 7 nm isn't so great _for everything_.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 29, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> There's no AMD folder in my Program Files, but the installer still says it can't proceed because it's installed.  No worries, I've never been a big fan of software control anyway.


I shouldn't plug this but here goes. Revo Uninstaller, it's been a saviour for me over the years and It's free. 
Open up the GUI and see if Ryzen Master is installed. If so uninstall it and choose the advanced method to clear all traces of it then reinstall the software.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 29, 2021)

I don't know.. I have seen some pretty decent 3600s posted.. but most of them seem like they good for stock and are junk for playing with. They must get the worst part of the wafer or something.


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## thesmokingman (Apr 29, 2021)

3600 is a stupid easy cpu to cool.


----------



## Zach_01 (Apr 29, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> After a little testing, I decided to use the 3100 for now, and pass the 3600 on to a friend who's in need of a new CPU anyway. It's a good CPU, but not for my use case it seems.
> 
> The little 3100 maxes out at 68 C in Cinebench all-core with the stock aluminium cube Wraith Stealth cooler on the Silent fan profile in BIOS. It'll probably be enough to feed my low profile GTX 1650, and I'll look at Intel's yard again for a replacement. We can say all bad things about their prehistoric 14 nm production node, but at least their TDP values aren't rainbow unicorn farts from the sky.
> 
> ...


3600 and 3600X do have different power requirements.
3600 is a 88W PPT CPU and
3600XT is a 125W PPT CPU

and the 105W TDP CPUs are 142W PPT.

Again, for AMD the TDP designation is for minimum cooling requirement and not the max power consumption.

For Intel, TDP is power consumption on all core base clock boost and this is called PL1(PowerLevel1). On PL2 the Intel CPU can increase its power consumption to +50~100% from TDP.


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## thesmokingman (Apr 29, 2021)

3600x is 95w TDP... close enough.


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## Zach_01 (Apr 29, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> 3600x is 95w TDP... close enough.


I know that, I was talking about PPT and not TDP. The actual max power is 125W for the 3600XT as 88W is for 3600nonX


----------



## Hemmingstamp (Apr 29, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I don't know.. I have seen some pretty decent 3600s posted.. but most of them seem like they good for stock and are junk for playing with. They must get the worst part of the wafer or something.


Yep. You'll find those bronze samples in some stores. It's all pot luck unless you want to pay more for a binned chip.


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## Zach_01 (Apr 29, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Yep. You'll find those bronze samples in some stores. It's all pot luck unless you want to pay more for a binned chip.


I have a bronze 3600. It’s probably from first batch. Purchased Aug2019. Uses higher voltage compared to newer 3600 and has zero OC capability.

In general 3600s are the worst binned CPUs hence the low boost clock of 4.2GHz.


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## Hemmingstamp (Apr 29, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> I have a bronze 3600. It’s probably from first batch. Purchased Aug2019. Uses higher voltage compared to newer 3600 and has zero OC capability.


Silver sample here produced in May 2020. I leave it at stock and use Ryzen Master. I tried to OC it and it would just creep past 4.2GHz then crash. 
Not worth the hassle tinkering with it.


----------



## tabascosauz (Apr 29, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> After a little testing, I decided to use the 3100 for now, and pass the 3600 on to a friend who's in need of a new CPU anyway. It's a good CPU, but not for my use case it seems.
> 
> The little 3100 maxes out at 68 C in Cinebench all-core with the stock aluminium cube Wraith Stealth cooler on the Silent fan profile in BIOS. It'll probably be enough to feed my low profile GTX 1650, and I'll look at Intel's yard again for a replacement. We can say all bad things about their prehistoric 14 nm production node, but at least their TDP values aren't rainbow unicorn farts from the sky.
> 
> ...



Haha I went through the same phase when I bought my former 3700X a month after launch, June 2019 production. The heat density and the idle behaviour was a bit of a culture shock coming even from a 4790K. 

At some point I got used to it like most people do, it just takes time. Having an Asus board is a saving grace for Ryzen idle because of Q-fan's hysteresis controls, gotta use it. I run my 5900X under my souped-up C14S at a nearly flat fan curve of 40-45% between 0-83C, no ramping anymore.

At the end of the day, Intel's TDP is just as offensive, just in a different way. The only difference is that Comet Lake actually performs excellent thermally because of its new IHS and die/substrate thinning, subverting our expectations of thermals. But 11th gen is a complete regression in thermals so it's moot.

The issue with Ryzen will become quite apparent if you get a Renoir or Cezanne APU to play with. The monolithic Ryzens are both quite a bit cooler and seem to draw less power as well while clocking about the same if not better than their chiplet counterparts (same 4.1GHz all-core, albeit slightly slower), which makes them much better suited to SFF coolers. Same NH-U9S same NCASE same airflow, 75C on the 3700X (behaves similarly to the 3600), 60C on the 4650G.

And they run 10C cooler when pulling 110W through the entire chip than 60W through the CPU only. That should persuade you to stop regarding power draw as an indicator of temperature   

They're technically also 65W parts, on paper. All in all, neither the AMD TDP nor PPT tell you too much. They're all "88W PPT", but the 5600X runs cooler than the 3600 as it doesn't max out its stock power limit, and the 4650G runs cooler than both. They're all "142W PPT", but the 5800X hits 80C+ on air in MT, while the 5900X runs at 70C in MT. Best to disregard advertised numbers and treat each CPU uniquely on thermals, same goes for Intel.


----------



## Zach_01 (Apr 29, 2021)

PPT is just a power draw number. It doesn't tell you of course thermal behavior. Thermals are about heat density = die sizes, number of active cores per CCX/CCD, number of CCD(s) and so on...
Actually, 5600X has a 76W PPT stock limit and it does reach it, even though it has the same label for minimum cooling capacity (65W TDP).

For AMD, TDP is exactly this: Minimum cooling requirement under specific CPU and ambient thermal conditions.
TDP(Watts) = (tCase°C - tAmbient°C)/(HSF θca)

AMD TDP is not an accurate number for thermal behavior either. Its even less accurate than PPT as AMD just segments a few different SKUs at each TDP level. Its a very rough number about cooling as we can see from the actual power and thermal behavior of 3100, 3300X, 5600X and 3600.

Steve Burke from GamersNexus claims that he had a discussion with AMD before the release of the following video.


----------



## Kissamies (Apr 29, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> 3600 is a stupid easy cpu to cool.


With PBO on, at least a crappy case ventilation does it run hot. Probably at stock that is true.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Apr 29, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Silver sample here produced in May 2020. I leave it at stock and use Ryzen Master. I tried to OC it and it would just creep past 4.2GHz then crash.
> Not worth the hassle tinkering with it.


Lol, that dumpster fire of a software first reported my 3900X as a platinum sample then as a bronze sample. Make up your mind will ya? I guess it's gonna be a fried sample once your software gives it 1.55v and runs a Light AVX test... that's the only feedback I gave to 1usmus which he didn't reply to, he replied to every other one of my tweets however.

That crap probably took 2 years off my CPU's lifespan.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 29, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Nah degrading means it requires more voltage for a certain clocks, the chip won't die.
> And no it won't degrade under gaming condition, that's taboo.


they do. my 3700x started black screening and needing more and more volts for the same clocks after a few months - changed to a different mobo, same higher voltages needed.

Yes, its a real thing. Zen2 is not good for all core OC's


----------



## nguyen (Apr 30, 2021)

Mussels said:


> they do. my 3700x started black screening and needing more and more volts for the same clocks after a few months - changed to a different mobo, same higher voltages needed.
> 
> Yes, its a real thing. Zen2 is not good for all core OC's



So many factors at play here: voltages, current, workload, temperature, and hell even high auto Vcore and SOC can degrade the chip, so why does manual Vcore get all the blame LOL.
If high Vcore alone kill CPU then extreme overclockers could have killed their CPU under LN2 in matter of seconds.

Anyways I don't want to drag on, everyone has different take on safe voltages for Ryzen 2/3, even Der8auer think 1.4Vcore is safe for 24/7 usage, as long as temperature is under control. Der8auer has access to RMA statistic from multiple retailers so I tend to believe him. Trusting anecdotal evidences at face value is just crazy, chip could have failed with auto voltages for all I know.

I will just point again to Der8eur video on degradation testing









He is putting 3 Ryzen 5000 CPU under 1.45Vcore and constant stress test, let see his results after 6 months and a year. My 3600 has been running a full year at 1.37Vcore, let see how it goes....



thesmokingman said:


> Seriously, what is your malfunction? There is no godamn safe voltage on Ryzen 2/3. It's freaking 2021, Zen 3 has been out a year, and you troll us all by suggesting waiting for an overclocker to do degradation testing on Zen 2, when it's old fucking news? Apparently most ppl know how these cpus work but you. Read up and stop doubling down on stupid.



Yeah sure 5600X and 5800X are Zen 2 CPU, sure buddy. Heard the saying "ignorance begets confidence"?  .
If I were to trust anedotal evidences at face value then Covid vaccine would be 100% fatality rate


----------



## AusWolf (Apr 30, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Haha I went through the same phase when I bought my former 3700X a month after launch, June 2019 production. The heat density and the idle behaviour was a bit of a culture shock coming even from a 4790K.
> 
> At some point I got used to it like most people do, it just takes time. Having an Asus board is a saving grace for Ryzen idle because of Q-fan's hysteresis controls, gotta use it. I run my 5900X under my souped-up C14S at a nearly flat fan curve of 40-45% between 0-83C, no ramping anymore.
> 
> ...


True, but at least Intel keeps their locked SKUs under leash - I mean, 65 W will be 65 W no matter what. It might reduce its turbo clocks a bit, but it will keep to its limits (unless you play with your Z-series motherboard's BIOS). 14 nm is old, but at least people know what to expect. AMD and their 7 nm is an experiment. A fun one, but still relatively new and unknown.

TDP is the only indication you have regarding heat output before buying a processor. It's vague as hell, I give you that, but there's nothing else to tell you what kind of cooling solution you need. If you don't know how to cool a chip before buying one, then you might argue that you have no idea what you're buying, and that's technically the manufacturer's / chip designer's fault in this case. I honestly don't mind, as I love toying around new hardware (heck, I might even sell this newly built slim PC tomorrow if I wake up in that mood), but the average Joe building his first gaming computer might have a rough time - or might not even notice, just kill his CPU by accident.

Edit: The other option is using the supplied cooler, which is an excellent idea with the 3100, but apparently a really crappy one with the 3600. Same 65 W TDP, same Wraith Stealth in the box. Surely, this is not right.



thesmokingman said:


> 3600 is a stupid easy cpu to cool.


Of course it is... in a normal PC case with a tower cooler or cheap AIO. But that's not what I'm aiming for this time.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (Apr 30, 2021)

Vanny said:


> Lol, that dumpster fire of a software first reported my 3900X as a platinum sample then as a bronze sample. Make up your mind will ya? I guess it's gonna be a fried sample once your software gives it 1.55v and runs a Light AVX test... that's the only feedback I gave to 1usmus which he didn't reply to, he replied to every other one of my tweets however.
> 
> That crap probably took 2 years off my CPU's lifespan.


I agree the software is poop. My CPU is borderline Bronze. I didn't want to push it any further for fear of killing it and threw in the towel @4.2GHZ + a bit more. 
Simply not worth hassle. I let Ryzen Master do it's job and leave it at that.


----------



## MancLad (May 4, 2021)

Hi, hope it's OK to add my query on this thread. I thought it was OK as it's about Ryzen 5 3600 turbo speeds.
After reading a bit on here and other forums I'm worried about the OC I have just achieved using AI Auite III?
I'm a newbie when it comes to OC so I thought it best to ask what is going on. Attached screenshots.
Thanks for any replies. Hope I haven't broke any rules 

PC Specs:

ASUS ROG Strix X570-F
Corsair AX850
Ryzen 5 3600
Gkill Trident Neo 3200mhz CL16 (2x8GB)
Noctua NH-U12S
MSI GTX 1660 SUPER Gaming X


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

MancLad said:


> Hi, hope it's OK to add my query on this thread. I thought it was OK as it's about Ryzen 5 3600 turbo speeds.
> After reading a bit on here and other forums I'm worried about the OC I have just achieved using AI Auite III?
> I'm a newbie when it comes to OC so I thought it best to ask what is going on. Attached screenshots.
> Thanks for any replies. Hope I haven't broke any rules
> ...


Static 1.4v?? Christ, revert that immediately


----------



## Mussels (May 4, 2021)

Gah thats a static voltage? hell no, dead chip incoming


----------



## MancLad (May 4, 2021)

I've gone into the BIOS and reset by loading optimised defaults and it's still showing this:

The CPU frequency is up and down between 3.6 and 4.2 all the time, is this normal?

Thanks again

Should I have started my own post? Just so I know for next time as I don't want to be cheeky putting this on another persons.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

It's okay now, stock operation

I'd recommend uninstalling AI Suite as it's garbage


----------



## MancLad (May 4, 2021)

Thanks for the reply but I was concerned with the voltage still being nearly 1.4v @ stock as the general agreed safe voltages I've read seems to be in the no more than 1.325?


----------



## freeagent (May 4, 2021)

1.325 is probably too high for all work loads too.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

MancLad said:


> Thanks for the reply but I was concerned with the voltage still being nearly 1.4v @ stock as the general agreed safe voltages I've read seems to be in the no more than 1.325?


That's single core voltage. Even 1.5 is safe for single core loads. You had 1.4v for all loads before, including all core loads, which is very dangerous.

For all core loads, let the CPU boost accordingly, it will select a voltage it thinks is safe. 1.325 is not safe for all core on Zen 2, I'd stay at 1.25 max and even then I'd rather have the CPU run on stock. You're no smarter than the CPU, once you set your own voltage you disable all safety features like the voltage fitness regulator and the fate of the CPU is in your hands, so it's best to keep it at stock. If you want more performance, get a good cooler, a board with solid VRMs and enable PBO.


----------



## freeagent (May 4, 2021)

I saw a laugh at my comment, did I say something funny?


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I saw a laugh at my comment, did I say something funny?


No, it's best to leave him to his delusions of 1.37v being safe.


----------



## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

LOL people who think the same "safe Vcore" is applicable to all Ryzen 3000 CPU don't really knows what they are talking about.
It's perfectly normal for the 3600 with slow binned CCD to run at higher voltages than higher binned CCD like 3700X, simply because the 3600 run at much lower frequency (higher core frequency = higher power usage per core)
Here is 1 hour video of Buildzoid explaining safe voltages with different Ryzen 3000 chips.









TL;DW lower core count and lower binned CCD can take higher sustained voltages, also it's better to run Normal Load Line Calibration to avoid damaging the chip.



Vanny said:


> No, it's best to leave him to his delusions of 1.37v being safe.



Yeah if you like anecdotal evidence so much how about running stock voltages can degrade the chip too  




__





						Proof of stock settings degrading 3rd Gen Ryzen performance
					

About a year ago (beginning of August 2019), not long after Third Gen Ryzen was released I bought the hardware my friend in Sweden needed to build his new computer.  I had a spare Gen 2 512 GB NVME M.2, a 512 GB SSD, an 8 TB HD drive and a Noctua NH-U9S Cooler which I could give him, and so it...




					community.amd.com
				




Without actual statistical data you are just talking out of your ass



freeagent said:


> I saw a laugh at my comment, did I say something funny?



It's funny cause you don't even have the same 3600 CPU and think 1 voltage level apply to all Ryzen CPU


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

Whatever you say, I made my point in this thread a million times already. We don't like dead CPUs here. I don't like advocating for people to put bullshit voltages on their CPUs either, especially not now.


----------



## freeagent (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> It's funny cause you don't even have the same 3600 CPU and think 1 voltage level apply to all Ryzen CPU


I have a 3600XT. I wouldn't run more than 1.268v all core all load. It can take a little more, but no need to kick the shit out of it. You take that 1.37 and fire up Linpack Xtreme and let me know your thoughts.

Its funny how you assume things. I am assuming things about you right now..


----------



## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

Vanny said:


> Whatever you say, we don't like dead CPUs here. I don't like advocating for people to put bullshit voltages on their CPUs either, especially not now.



Sound like you don't have any actually experience nor knowledge working with 3600 to talk about bullshit voltages


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I wouldn't run more than 1.268v all core all load


Look, someone with common sense, as opposed to the one above me.



nguyen said:


> Sound like you don't have any actually experience nor knowledge working with 3600 to talk about bullshit voltages


----------



## RealKGB (May 4, 2021)

I've observed this behavior of CPU voltages flipping all over the case as well. I'm on stock settings with PBO enabled, and when GPU Folding the CPU voltages flip from 1.1 to 1.3 to 1.41, seemingly at random.

I used to run it at 4325 MHz, 1.45V, but I was not responsible for that voltage (AI Suite 3 set it) and I set it back to stock.

I'm not planning to overclock it, as it's plenty fast for me, but a word to the wise - don't use AI Suite 3 or 1usmus' Clocktuner for Ryzen.

Gave me 1.49V. That got removed quick.


nguyen said:


> Sound like you don't have any actually experience nor knowledge working with 3600 to talk about bullshit voltages


I do, though, as I run one.
You NEVER EVER EVER run above 1.45V for all-core. I did it for 2 months, and I wasn't able to hit 4.3 again. Max I could get was 4.2 (at 1.45V, don't worry, I didn't keep it there).

Now please stop spreading misinformation.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> Gave me 1.49V. That got removed quick.


1usmus fantastic software gave me 1.55v and an AVX test right after. Surprised my CPU hasn't exploded.


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Without actual statistical data you are just talking out of your ass


And yet, all data proves otherwise, stop beating a dead horse with uncompleted tests and complete cope.


----------



## RealKGB (May 4, 2021)

Vanny said:


> 1usmus fantastic software gave me 1.55v and an AVX test right after. Surprised my CPU hasn't exploded.


I saw it set to 1.49V and I immediately went OH NO CRAP and just reset my PC.
Booted into Safe Mode and yeeted ClockTuner out of there.

Never using it again.


----------



## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

_L_ said:


> And yet, all data proves otherwise, stop beating a dead horse with uncompleted tests and complete cope.



yeah let disregard "well known" sources and listen to newbie enthusiasts on the internet


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> yeah let disregard "well known" sources and listen to newbie enthusiasts on the internet


Yeah let's disregard every single article proving you wrong whilst you pretend suicide voltages are just fine, quite ironic there buddy.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> I saw it set to 1.49V and I immediately went OH NO CRAP and just reset my PC.
> Booted into Safe Mode and yeeted ClockTuner out of there.
> 
> Never using it again.


Me too, instead of shutting down my PC his software (which at the time requested admin privileges mind you) decided to just spam "VOLTAGE TOO HIGH REBOOT REQUIRED". I instantly rebooted my PC out of fear. None of that shit is worth it. Setting my CPU to a static frequency and voltage actually made it feel sluggish. On stock it feels more responsive to my actions, I guess due to it changing clock states about 1000 times per second. Some of those clock states might be in the high 4.5 GHz as opposed to a static 4.2 GHz.


nguyen said:


> yeah let disregard "well known" sources and listen to newbie enthusiasts on the internet


Take two 3600s, leave one on stock, and the other on your beloved 1.37v all core, and see which one dies faster. You should definitely collab with 1usmus on ClockTuner as you seem to enjoy unreasonable voltages.


----------



## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

Vanny said:


> Take two 3600s, leave one on stock, and the other on your beloved 1.37v all core, and see which one dies faster. You should definitely collab with 1usmus on ClockTuner as you seem to enjoy unreasonable voltages.



Funny that I get lower core temperature with static 4.1ghz/1.37Vcore on my 3600 by 10C compare to stock clocks/voltages with PBO, so I guess I might as well be extending the life of my 3600, but not to the point that is last longer than its usefulness period (5-7 years).
Well if you treasure PC hardware that much why not just use 1.1Vcore then   , why bother with 1.25VCore at all?


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Funny that I get lower core temperature with static 4.1ghz/1.37Vcore on my 3600 by 10C compare to stock clocks/voltages with PBO


Come back when you run an all-core load then let us know how it compares in current since quite evidently you don't understand how to test properly.


----------



## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

_L_ said:


> Come back when you run an all-core load then let us know how it compares in current since quite evidently you don't understand how to test properly.



How about you buy a 3600 and test it yourself


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Funny that I get lower core temperature with static 4.1ghz/1.37Vcore on my 3600 by 10C compare to stock clocks/voltages with PBO, so I guess I might as well be extending the life of my 3600, but not to the point that is last longer than its usefulness period (5-7 years).
> Well if you treasure PC hardware that much why not just use 1.1Vcore then   , why bother with 1.25VCore at all?


Of course I treasure it, I'm not rich to pay current prices for a 3900X, or can afford just buying new CPUs every time one dies. If you can afford that more power to you, degrade all the CPUs you want captain.

I'd also like other people's CPUs to remain intact and advise them to do so accordingly. Manual OC on Zen 2 is stupid and rarely brings any significant uplift unless the user likes to do multithreaded tasks like rendering vids all the time, which most people don't. Even then it's barely a difference over stock or stock with PBO.

To increase Ryzen performance I'd much rather OC RAM and the IF.


----------



## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

Vanny said:


> Of course I treasure it, I'm not rich to pay current prices for a 3900X, or can afford just buying new CPUs every time one dies. If you can afford that more power to you, degrade all the CPUs you want captain.
> 
> I'd also like other people's CPUs to remain intact and advise them to do so accordingly. Manual OC on Zen 2 is stupid.



So why are you not using 1.1Vcore then? or 1.0Vcore?
Just because you are a single 3900X sample doesn't mean you know how all the 3600 should work, that's not how anything works LOL


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> How about you buy a 3600 and test it yourself


Already have, you haven't quite evidently - nice cope though kid:




Nice projection for your impotency though, and how about give us a meaningful thread which disproves all of them I've linked then : )



nguyen said:


> that's not how anything works LOL


The irony of this statement is quite hilarious given all you have is low-quality insults, projections and absolutely no hard evidence compared to plenty linked by us here - you're just arrogant, a troll or both. (or maybe just plain stupid?)


----------



## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

_L_ said:


> Already have, you haven't quite evidently - nice cope though kid:
> 
> Nice projection for your impotency though, and how about give us a meaningful thread which disproves all of them I've linked then : )
> 
> ...



Well if you like anecdotal evidence




__





						Proof of stock settings degrading 3rd Gen Ryzen performance
					

About a year ago (beginning of August 2019), not long after Third Gen Ryzen was released I bought the hardware my friend in Sweden needed to build his new computer.  I had a spare Gen 2 512 GB NVME M.2, a 512 GB SSD, an 8 TB HD drive and a Noctua NH-U9S Cooler which I could give him, and so it...




					community.amd.com
				




Oh so your evidence is a single reddit post on safe voltages on Ryzen 3 is around 1.325V for ST workload and 1.47Vcore for MT workload, yet claim my 1.37 is unreasonable voltage   . Are you alright buddy?


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Well if you like anedotal evidence
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice, linking a thread from someone from the forums here who was consistency disproved and proved wrong countless times till the thread got shut down - nice 'evidence' but it doesn't count when the user is incompetent - and one piece of 'evidence' from someone who didn't bounce when they were dropped like yourself isn't evidence in the slightest - it's a small sample size relative to the *hundreds* (read: Bold because you're incapable of basic reading comprehension) from numerous threads which I've linked - quit projecting, grow some balls and learn to admit when you're in the wrong.



nguyen said:


> Oh so your evidence is a single reddit post on safe voltages on Ryzen 3 is around 1.325V for ST workload and 1.47Vcore for MT workload, yet claim my 1.37 is unreasonable voltage  . Are you alright buddy?


"Single reddit post"
When you're too blind to use the scroll wheel or get your face more than a millimetre off the display.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Just because you are a single 3900X sample doesn't mean you know how all the 3600 should work


How very ironic. I could say the same. Just because you have a single 3600 sample doesn't mean you know how all the 3600 should work. Because you know so much better with your singular 3600 and trivial threads from very "trusted" authors you link. Your sample size holds barely any significance yet you make such bold claims.

I am very comfortable with an all core OC at 1.25v. Yet the performance it brings is barely any more significant and makes it feel sluggish at times, so I prefer stock operation. It's much more safe than 1.37v.

Any other questions?


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> safe voltages on Ryzen 3 is around 1.325V for ST workload and 1.47Vcore for MT workload


And, 1.47V vcore for MT workload? Do you even know how to read?


----------



## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

_L_ said:


> And, 1.47V vcore for MT workload? Do you even know how to read?


opps, got the wrong way around, nice spotting





So I guess millions of users should file lawsuit against LTT for recommending voltage that kill their CPU?


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> So I guess millions of users should file lawsuit against LTT for recommending voltage that kill their CPU?


It's at your own risk, it's a you problem if it degrades so not really their fault in that regard - it is their fault for the lack of research however.
Also, that  standard CPU voltage at 1.4V? Seems like even LTT doesn't understand how PBO works, you're not getting 1.4V on an all-core load with PBO, that's outright bullshit.


----------



## Toothless (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> opps, got the wrong way around, nice spotting
> 
> View attachment 199190
> 
> So I guess millions of users should file lawsuit against LTT for recommending voltage that kill their CPU?


Why you would overclock with information from Youtube is beyond me. That's just asking for trouble.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

LTT? Lmfao. Thread becoming a cesspool


----------



## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Why you would overclock with information from Youtube is beyond me. That's just asking for trouble.



So youtube guys like Buildzoid, Der8auer are un-trustworthy as well? oh boy the gall so called tech enthusiasts these day 



Vanny said:


> LTT? Lmfao. Thread becoming a cesspool



So you think you have more credibility than LTT, 1usmus, Buildzoid or Der8auer?
Who are you buddy ? just some dude with a 3900X think he knows everything?


----------



## Toothless (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> So youtube guys like Buildzoid, Der8auer are un-trustworthy as well? oh boy the gall so called tech enthusiasts these day


They're good for information, but you need to do so much more research than watching a couple dudes in front of a camera. 

I'm just trying to have a conversation. If you're going to be toxic about it then I won't bother.


----------



## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

Toothless said:


> They're good for information, but you need to do so much more research than watching a couple dudes in front of a camera.
> 
> I'm just trying to have a conversation. If you're going to be toxic about it then I won't bother.



Hm... soo a couple of "tech enthusiasts" here claim that voltage alone kill CPU is a good source of information  ? I don't think so


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> So you think you have more credibility than LTT, 1usmus, Buildzoid or Der8auer?
> Who are you buddy ? just some dude with a 3900X think he knows everything?


I'm someone who has to deal with the singularity produced in my living room due to the sheer density of your posts.

I liked how you pitted 1usmus in there, I guess you like the 1.55v his software gave me after all.

Can a mod come here and give me a temp thread ban? It would be welcomed. Let this guy and his misinformation run rampant. This thread has already answered the questions of the two people that needed answers, and its now devolved into a circus of arguments. I think it needs to be locked.


----------



## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

Vanny said:


> I'm someone who has to deal with the singularity produced in my living room due to the sheer density of your posts.
> 
> I liked how you pitted 1usmus in there, I guess you like the 1.55v his software gave me after all.
> 
> Can a mod come here and give me a temp thread ban? It would be welcomed. Let this guy and his misinformation run rampant.



Yes people without 3600 shouldn't talk about 3600 in the first place, or is this thread named "Ryzen 3900X turbo speeds"?


----------



## freeagent (May 4, 2021)

Have you run that all core load at 1.37 yet?

Still waiting. Select 1 multiplier preferably 41 or above, set a static voltage and let it rip.

Let us know.


----------



## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Have you run that all core load at 1.37 yet?
> 
> Still waiting. Select 1 multiplier preferably 41 or above, set a static voltage and let it rip.
> 
> Let us know.



Nope my 3600 max out at 4150mhz even with stock voltage + PBO, just some shitty sample like the one OP has.
So 4.1ghz/1.37Vcore day1 since April of last year, also LLC at Normal.


----------



## Toothless (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Hm... soo a couple of "tech enthusiasts" here claim that voltage alone kill CPU is a good source of information  ? I don't think so


There's actual proof that the voltage has degraded and killed these chips. 7nm is still young and no one here properly knows how it handles voltage above knowing what has been consistent in killing them. 

It would be like if you were to stick 1.5v on your chip and went full load. The poor thing ain't gonna last nearly as long as under 1.4v, as honestly everything 22nm and smaller should be under. 

It's either look at why these chips are dying, or be one of the people here that compare 32nm to 7nm and think Zen 2 can run like an FX chip. You really don't need to be full on asshole about it and that goes for both sides. It's a damn forum, quit being toxic.


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## freeagent (May 4, 2021)

I am nowhere near afraid of degrading my 5600 as I am with my 3600. But I still wouldn't push more than 1.3v on it for anything long term. I am ok with 1.25v though. It has seen 1.45v by my hand for 4900Mhz briefly, but that's the highest I've benched. All core load on it with 1.3v @ 4700 with linpack and I can barely keep temps in check (under 85), but not only that, it is sucking 140w+. My 3600 pretty much stops reacting in a stable fashion to all core voltage @ 1.337v for 4500MHz. And linpack at that speed and voltage is about the same on the 5600X, very hard to tame and imo borderline dangerous, if not fully dangerous.

Everyone knows the crap cores come from the outer wafer. Everyone knows crap cores don't scale like good cores. No one can say with certainty what an acceptable all core voltage is with 7nm. In my opinion 1.25v is safe for any load under the sun. Whatever your FIT voltage is, you shouldn't go to far past it. The problem is further exasperated if your cooling solution isn't up to the task.


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## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Yes people without 3600 shouldn't talk about 3600 in the first place, or is this thread named "Ryzen 3900X turbo speeds"?


You have one 3600. Don't act like you owned thousands of 3600s and concluded that the voltage you applied to yours is safe to all of them. I haven't owned a 3600 but my friend unfortunate enough to have his board auto OC his 3600 with insane amounts of voltage (around in the ballpark of the voltage you recommended) had his CPU die on him within 6 months or so. And all he did was game. If you think I'm gonna tell people who had the same OC thing happen to them (see MancLad's earlier posts) that it's completely acceptable to have their CPU run that way, you're wrong.


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## RealKGB (May 4, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Yes people without 3600 shouldn't talk about 3600 in the first place, or is this thread named "Ryzen 3900X turbo speeds"?


As an owner of a Ryzen 5 3600, 1.45V all-core degraded my chip 100 MHz after 2 months.
1usmus' software gave me 1.49V and as soon as I saw that I restarted my PC, booted into safe mode, and removed ClockTuner.

If you want to know your max voltage, set all settings to stock, PBO off, and run Prime95 small FFT. That is what gives you your max all-core CPU voltage. NEVER exceed it.

I got 1.29V for my max all-core voltage, if you are wondeirng.


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## freeagent (May 4, 2021)

128k small fft.


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## Deleted member 205776 (May 4, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> If you want to know your max voltage, set all settings to stock, PBO off, and run Prime95 small FFT. That is what gives you your max all-core CPU voltage. NEVER exceed it.
> 
> I got 1.29V for my max all-core voltage, if you are wondeirng.


Thank you. That SVI TFN2 voltage fitness regulator exists for a reason. Don't go all Rambo on your CPU thinking you know what the safe voltage is. Do testing first. See what is the acceptable voltage for *your particular chip*. If your CPU got 1.37v during all core stock Prime95 Small FFT then congrats.

Mine had around 1.32v, which is why I'm more than comfortable with 1.25v, but still choose to run stock.


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## 95Viper (May 4, 2021)

OK... stop the arguing over "I know better than you" puffery.
Stop the demeaning remarks thrown at each other.
Have a civil conversation/debate/discussion.
Act like mature individuals.

Only warning... points/bans will be forth coming if this continues.

Thank You,
Have a Good Day!


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## damric (May 4, 2021)

My 3600 is decent I guess. I am able to all-core 4.2GHz at 1.25v, so I leave it at that. More MHz takes a lot more voltage for this one. Better than auto/PBO though. 

My 5800x on the other hand, phew that thing hits 4.95GHz regularly on default settings so I just let it do its thing.


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## Hemmingstamp (May 4, 2021)

I just popped in to see what condition my condition was in...

After eyeing up a 5800X i might just try some experimental frying of my 3600 on a B450 board.
Who's with me for a 3600 @5GHz on all cores?


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## Toothless (May 4, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> I just popped in to see what condition my condition was in...
> 
> After eyeing up a 5800X i might just try some experimental frying of my 3600 on a B450 board.
> Who's with me for a 3600 @5GHz on all cores?


I've got a few bucks left if you wanna give that 3600 a home.   

Honestly burnt silicon doesn't smell good to the point of I'd suggest don't try it.


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## nguyen (May 4, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I am nowhere near afraid of degrading my 5600 as I am with my 3600. But I still wouldn't push more than 1.3v on it for anything long term. I am ok with 1.25v though. It has seen 1.45v by my hand for 4900Mhz briefly, but that's the highest I've benched. All core load on it with 1.3v @ 4700 with linpack and I can barely keep temps in check (under 85), but not only that, it is sucking 140w+. My 3600 pretty much stops reacting in a stable fashion to all core voltage @ 1.337v for 4500MHz. And linpack at that speed and voltage is about the same on the 5600X, very hard to tame and imo borderline dangerous, if not fully dangerous.
> 
> Everyone knows the crap cores come from the outer wafer. Everyone knows crap cores don't scale like good cores. No one can say with certainty what an acceptable all core voltage is with 7nm. In my opinion 1.25v is safe for any load under the sun. Whatever your FIT voltage is, you shouldn't go to far past it. The problem is further exasperated if your cooling solution isn't up to the task.



This was the only trial run I ran with the 3600 (stock + PBO)









4.1Ghz/1.37Vcore reduce the power consumption and temperature, so I guess that would mean lower current as well. Temperature is kept in check at all time with the Kraken X63 AIO, too bad I didn't record with 4.1ghz/1.37Vcore


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## Hemmingstamp (May 4, 2021)

Toothless said:


> I've got a few bucks left if you wanna give that 3600 a home.
> 
> Honestly burnt silicon doesn't smell good to the point of I'd suggest don't try it.


You're in the US. The import taxes alone would be more than what the 3600 is worth.

Just thought I'd lighten the mood around here


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## Deleted member 202104 (May 4, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> I just popped in to see what condition my condition was in...
> 
> After eyeing up a 5800X i might just try some experimental frying of my 3600 on a B450 board.
> Who's with me for a 3600 @5GHz on all cores?


I love the smell of melting silicon in the morning.


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## RealKGB (May 4, 2021)

weekendgeek said:


> I love the smell of melting silicon in the morning.


Combined with the beeping of your UPS because the power went out.


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## damric (May 4, 2021)

If you find this helpful, I'll re-run the test with default motherboard settings and/or PBO.

Ryzen 3600 @4200MHz
X470 Taichi
32GB 3800CL16

Tested with AVX ON. Graph set to 1 second intervals and about a 15 minute test of CPU/FPU.







Edit: here's a better pic with the load numbers.


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## freeagent (May 4, 2021)

I guess mine wasn't as hot as I remembered.. but that could have been December.. was pretty cold outside by then 



Moving to 4x8 looks like things warmed up a bit. Hard to say because my fan configuration was in the experimental stage, and was constantly changing. Or maybe the furnace came on..


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## MancLad (May 4, 2021)

Vanny said:


> No, it's best to leave him to his delusions of 1.37v being safe.


I'm not delusional here and there is no need to get funny about it. Like I said on my first post, I'm new to OC and just wanted some 'friendly' advice.


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## Zach_01 (May 4, 2021)

Found some old (2~3 months ago) tests with my bronze sample 3600 with PBO Enabled.
Anyone care to see stock voltage and speed during CB-R20 and P95(AVX)?

Here you go

P95 AVX 128-128KB

1.29V (avg), 3.915GHz and 111+W PPT (avg)





------------------------------------------------------

CB R20 MT

1.35V avg, 3.995GHz and 94+W PPT





-------------------------------------------------------------------

*Keep in mind that those voltages and speeds are under the specific (each test) CPU temps. If temp was lower, voltage and speed would be higher and vice versa. Also same voltages and speeds are under the specific type of loads. Any other type of load would result (or required) different voltages and speeds.
If I use 1.35V for a static OC I must set speed no more than 4.0GHz, keep temps at 60C max, and never ever load an AVX load on the CPU.*


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## MancLad (May 4, 2021)

Vanny said:


> That's single core voltage. Even 1.5 is safe for single core loads. You had 1.4v for all loads before, including all core loads, which is very dangerous.
> 
> For all core loads, let the CPU boost accordingly, it will select a voltage it thinks is safe. 1.325 is not safe for all core on Zen 2, I'd stay at 1.25 max and even then I'd rather have the CPU run on stock. You're no smarter than the CPU, once you set your own voltage you disable all safety features like the voltage fitness regulator and the fate of the CPU is in your hands, so it's best to keep it at stock. If you want more performance, get a good cooler, a board with solid VRMs and enable PBO.


Thanks for the reply. I do have a good cooler and board.



MancLad said:


> Thanks for the reply. I do have a good cooler and board



Keep hearing this 'PBO' for overclocking. I've gone back into the BIOS and set to D.O.C.P for my RAM and just set the rest to auto!


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## Toothless (May 4, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> You're in the US. The import taxes alone would be more than what the 3600 is worth.
> 
> Just thought I'd lighten the mood around here


Bet. Still would do it.


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## Hemmingstamp (May 4, 2021)

Toothless said:


> Bet. Still would do it.


If I do sell I'll give you first refusal


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## damric (May 4, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Found some old (2~3 months ago) tests with my bronze sample 3600 with PBO Enabled.
> Anyone care to see stock voltage and speed during CB-R20 and P95(AVX)?
> 
> Here you go
> ...


Unlucky sample if you need that much voltage for such low clock.

My Cinebench R23


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## Zach_01 (May 4, 2021)

damric said:


> Unlucky sample if you need that much voltage for such low clock.
> 
> My Cinebench R23
> 
> View attachment 199223



If you like comparisons you'll have to run CB-R20 and observe "CPU Core Voltage SVI2 TFN" and speed on HWiNFO with "Snapshot CPU Polling" Enabled from main settings.


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## damric (May 4, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> If you like comparisons you'll have to run CB-R20 and observe "CPU Core Voltage SVI2 TFN" and speed on HWiNFO with "Snapshot CPU Polling" Enabled from main settings.


lol why. R20 is weaker than R23.


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## Toothless (May 4, 2021)

damric said:


> lol why. R20 is weaker than R23.


Because, he ran R20, as said in his post.


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## Zach_01 (May 4, 2021)

damric said:


> lol why. R20 is weaker than R23.



For sake of comparison. You can't compare different loads on a different binned CPU, even if its the same SKU and talk about voltages and speeds between them. I don't have R23. So I'm asking you, if you wouldn't mind running it (R20) like I did.

If you do so
Start R20, wait for CPU values to go to 100% (like 4~5sec), then reset HWiNFO values and take a screenshot at 1:10~1:15


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## RealKGB (May 4, 2021)

If you'd like, I can record my R20 and/or R23 results and recorded voltages once I get home (in ~2 hours). It's currently on stock clocks, but RAM is 4x8GB 3333 C16-16-16-32 tRC 48.


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## Zach_01 (May 4, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> If you'd like, I can record my R20 and/or R23 results and recorded voltages once I get home (in ~2 hours). It's currently on stock clocks, but RAM is 4x8GB 3333 C16-16-16-32 tRC 48.


RAM speed doesn't really matter for CB as long as it can keep the CPU fed up. Anything between 3200~3800 DRAM speed is practically the same for this benchmark. And even if it does make difference, for sure we are not comparing scores here, just CPU core voltages and speeds.
So yeah, please do so (R20 preferably). Just try to do it like I described at post #167.

EDIT:

And PBO Enabled (not Auto) for direct comparison as well.


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## RealKGB (May 4, 2021)

Alright, results:


Spoiler









I've underlined what I think are important values.

No idea how to interpret them, though, so other people can explain it (to me as well).


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## Lindatje (May 4, 2021)

Ryzen 3600 here. From the start 2019 on 1,39v and still running very stable and smooth.


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## biffzinker (May 4, 2021)

Lindatje said:


> Ryzen 3600 here. From the start 2019 on 1,39v and still running very stable and smooth.


I have a dead Ryzen 3600 from that year that stopped POSTing mid 2020. The early abuse with a manual multi/voltage, and PBO enhanced may of contributed to it's death. Working fine one day, and then the next nope, CPU LED lit on the board. Same board is fine with a 3800X, and the temp Ryzen 3 1200.


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## Mussels (May 5, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Funny that I get lower core temperature with static 4.1ghz/1.37Vcore on my 3600 by 10C compare to stock clocks/voltages with PBO, so I guess I might as well be extending the life of my 3600, but not to the point that is last longer than its usefulness period (5-7 years).
> Well if you treasure PC hardware that much why not just use 1.1Vcore then   , why bother with 1.25VCore at all?


It's not temps that kill them, its amperage. Thats straight from AMD engineers.


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## tabascosauz (May 5, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> I have a dead Ryzen 3600 from that year that stopped POSTing mid 2020. The early abuse with a manual multi/voltage, and PBO enhanced may of contributed to it's death. Working fine one day, and then the next nope, CPU LED lit on the board. Same board is fine with a 3800X, and the temp Ryzen 3 1200.



I only tested my 3700X at sub-1.25V, but I did run it for a few months PBO with LLC. Turbo LLC on that IR35201 was _unbelievably _strong. And then I ran a aggressive PBO profile for a long time, with uncapped PPT, 83A EDC and 2X scalar. That 2X scalar is no joke, all-core Vcore damn close to 1.4V.

AMD imposed specific current/clock restrictions on AVX-type Vcore with 1.0.0.6/ComboV2, but some B450 boards never implemented those R20 and P95 limits (~Q1/Q2 2020) even when stock, PBO disabled. My 3 B550 boards, even with PBO on, were never able to replicate the ~4900-5000pt R20 *stock, no PBO *scores on my B450I Aorus Pro Wifi.

Did all that have a part to play in my 3700X's shenanigans later in life? Who knows. 

BZ says that it takes a lot of effort to degrade any Matisse chip. Which makes sense, since I did do a LOT of stupid shit over 18 months. But iirc he mostly used his 8700K/9900K and modded Z390 Gene for the OC stuff through 2019 and early 2020, so I don't think his 3700X actually got much use before he made the degradation video earlier this eyar.

And then there's my no-fucks-given 4.4 @ 1.45V one week frenzy on my 4650G just to get that 9891 score in the R23 thread  we don't talk about that except to say that it will only do 4.0 now lol


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## mclaren85 (May 5, 2021)

I'm really happy to see someone else also share my views (which is I firmly believe right). Those zen2 architecture requires excessive voltage already (design error maybe?) and that will certainly degrade the chip sooner or later. I would not push the chip more if I were you.


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## nguyen (May 5, 2021)

Mussels said:


> It's not temps that kill them, its amperage. Thats straight from AMD engineers.



Higher temperature will lead to higher current due to higher leakage. That's how LN2 overclockers get away with insanely high voltages.

Something like this (EM is electron migration)




When you have free time just watch Buildzoid video on chip degradation (it's 1 hour long)


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## SirPerfluous (May 5, 2021)

I have been running my 3700x at 1.36 set for almost a year now. 

Haven't ran the supposedly shitty 1usmus software, but I would hazard a guess to say my chip is golden or better. 
I've managed to run 1910 IF stable on low voltages, run incredibly tight timings and subtimings, and run at *higher* than the average zen 2 all core OC voltage while remaining unscathed so far. 

I have lapped the IHS, use an arctic LF 280 to cool it, and seldom does it ever touch 70C in any of the workloads it sees. Temperature plays a *big* part in degradation.
My chip was made the 6th week of 2020, And since the end of may 2020, It has been running at its maximum possible potential.

4300 all core with 1.36 vcore set, 1900 IF and 1.1v soc.
LLC on medium which allows vdroop to compensate, and I see no greater than 1.32 under any significant load.
I used to run ~4330 and 1910 for a bit before that, but I couldn't ever get it stable in heavy cpu intensive loads. It became stable when I dropped the multiplier.
If I kept it low I could maybe even get the IF higher, but base clock tuning was hard for me on this motherboard.

4300 all core is the peak of this chip. Any more and it doesn't like to be stable below 1.33v under heavy load, which I don't really feel like doing for an extra 30 mhz. 
1.325 is the safest maximum I will consider, for a heavy, thread intensive workload. I'm pretty sure you can get away with even more on the 3600 as it should be less heat-dense.
I can sorta achieve the same clocks with less set voltage and more LLC, but it's not 100% stable unless setup like this. so, 1.37v with the proper vrm settings is probably okay on Zen 2.

The way it works now is almost similar to pbo in that it runs higher voltages in low current situations, and under heavy load the voltage drops.
A bit more stupid than pbo, but it has worked great so far.

Also when attempting to setup pbo, I never saw the same performance as what I currently have now, and would often see it run _heavy_ all core loads at 1.38v but only managing 4250mhz or worse. 
I did manage to see some impressive single core frequencies up to 4.5 ghz on some cores in hwinfo with the edc bug and some time spent, but the voltages and heat always made me feel worse than this all core oc ever has. 
It output far more heat, reaching mid 80's but having worse performance... I never had good luck with pbo, and it wasn't for lack of trying. I spent some time on more than one motherboard fiddling with it. 

The 3600 might be more prone to degradation due to it being a lower bin, but I still think its just a lottery. 
Perhaps some of the cpu's that are "degrading" were actually just terrible quality silicon that still managed to pass QC? 
AMD had record yields for their 7nm node, maybe some of those weren't as good as they thought? 
I guess with 7nm being new, It should be expected that the start of it would be a bit unpredictable..


Overall I think Zen 2 is a mixed bag, older chips are probably worse than newer ones, but I also think it takes waaaay more tuning than most people do.  

There's not really a set safe voltage for Zen 2, each chip will vary. 

Try not to get scared by the reddit posts, experiment and learn for yourself.
Or watch the videos nguyen provided, as those fairly reputable creators spent a number of hours working on that, just to help you be informed. and to maybe make money.


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## Zach_01 (May 5, 2021)

mclaren85 said:


> I'm really happy to see someone else also share my views (which is I firmly believe right). Those zen2 architecture requires excessive voltage already (design error maybe?) and that will certainly degrade the chip sooner or later. I would not push the chip more if I were you.


We are not talking about stock voltages and no one here has said that stock voltage would hurt the CPU (except you). The debate is about what is considered as safe static voltage and speed.

Personal opinion, there is no straight answer.
It depends on the type of load, quantity of load, temperature. In other words = by Current(A). High current with high temp is what causing electromigration and eventually thinned traces

If someone is running a 100% heavy AVX type of loads, voltage should be under 1.3V (1.25~1.3V)
With Cinebench type load it could be 1.3~1.35V
On low or middle loads it could even be 1.4~1.45V.

What would be the specific voltage depends on a lot of things. Chiplets, CCXs, number of active cores per CCX/CCD, type and % of load, current, temperature.

I’ve watched all BZ’s videos related to this degradation issue. And he admitted that degrading his 3700X has involve a lot of heavy type loads with 1.37V, when he shouldn’t cross 1.3V for those.

It’s very complicated to find what should be suitable for each type of load. And it’s far easier to find it when the load is 100%.
Gaming for example is for sure a very mixed bag of load type and % quantity even on 1 game. Let alone on the dozens of different games out there.

I usually not suggesting static OC because of the complexity it requires from the user to find the proper voltage and speed for his/her type or variety of usage scenarios.

Especially on 3000 static OC is not worth it unless someone is under clocking for better thermals.
For gaming it’s better to be left on auto boosting.

And my friendly advice is to stop running stress/burn tests all the time and try to find every last point on benchmarks and just enjoy your systems on whatever you do.
Unless someone’s hobby is to run benchmarks all day. By all means feel free to do it but be aware of the dangers.


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## Muaadib (May 5, 2021)

Recently got a 3600 as a temp cpu for my B550 so i thought i might chip in. I used ClockTuner which said i have a silver sample and set the following (PBO,Voltages set to auto in BIOS):
4.225@1.245v MT
4.375@1.345v ST

It automatically switches between the two depending on the load. The MT setting in particular dropped my temps by almost 10c compared to stock while simultaneously getting higher scores in R20.

Just my 2 cents.


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## brandon7171 (Jul 2, 2021)

SirPerfluous said:


> I have been running my 3700x at 1.36 set for almost a year now.
> 
> Haven't ran the supposedly shitty 1usmus software, but I would hazard a guess to say my chip is golden or better.
> I've managed to run 1910 IF stable on low voltages, run incredibly tight timings and subtimings, and run at *higher* than the average zen 2 all core OC voltage while remaining unscathed so far.
> ...


Thats really nice numbers, i have the same processor but with the X570 board, with a 4X8 kit G.Skill Ram


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