# Finally doing the gaming laptop thing



## cdawall (Sep 30, 2015)

So I am finally going to a gaming laptop. I am going to be using it for school as well. So it needs to be able to run a VM pretty well. Trying to decide between a few models.

A clevo P650 barebones  $1500 with the following specs: i7 4720, GTX980m, 8GB, 7200rpm 1TB. If I go this route it leaves me the ability to drop in 2 hard drives, 2 M2 drives and expand the ram.

another clevo P650 $1400, i7 6500HQ, GTX970m, 16GB, 1tb+128gb ssd, 

or cheap out and spend roughly half as much on an HP Omen. Specs i7 4720, GTX960m, 8GB, 256GB PCIe SSD

I am sure the HP would accomplish everything I need all while weighing less and cutting in a lot cheaper, but is it worth it...


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## Kursah (Sep 30, 2015)

My cheap Dell 3540 can run multiple VM's pretty damn well, so don't worry about that, anything with an i5 or i7 (dual core or true quad core variants) with 8+GB DDR3 and plenty of HDD or SSD space and you'll be fine virtualization-wise. I would say steer clear of the Killer NIC's if possible...a friend of mine with an older MSI had to put the virtual switch through the wireless adapter for his labs. Though I do still highly recommend MSI, excellent support and builds. Really what you're after with everything you posted is gaming performance more-so than VM performance. I suppose that depends on what you're using your VM's for, but I was running 5 VM's on my i5 4200u,  8GB DDR3 1600, 1TB SSHD Dell lappy with great success. 

I don't trust HP laptops for long-term anymore... Clevo does have some good stuff... but I'd also look at MSI depending on what you want your budget to be. Dell also can have some decent hardware through their outlet...not as much on the gaming-oriented side of things though.

You might also check out gaminglaptopsjunky.com, that dude stays on top of good deals or last I checked he did.


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## cdawall (Sep 30, 2015)

Good to know I looked at MSI as well I just didn't see anything that screamed good deal at me. The Clevo's hold the top spot for gaming laptops that's the main reason I looked at them.

and the VM's just happen to be something I am randomly doing. They don't run very well on a ancient Athlon X2 based netbook lol.


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## HWTactics (Sep 30, 2015)

One thing to note.

When I had a laptop for school I picked up a used 12.1" Thinkpad x201 for $250 with a first-gen core i5 and huge (8 or 9 cell) battery that pushed 6-7 hours battery life.  It was small and light and discreet sitting on my desk so everyone around me couldn't easily read what I was typing, and it wasn't physically obstructing their view to make them want to see what I was doing either.  And of course, the Thinkpad keyboard is fantastic for note-taking.

Likewise if you're spending any significant amount of time doing work on a laptop outside school you will almost certainly want bigger than a 15" screen, which wouldn't be a good fit in a classroom at all.  VMs can take up some serious screen real estate.

If you've considered buying a small 11/12" used laptop or netbook for sub-$200 for school use, and another larger 17"+ laptop for when you don't need mobility, the price may come up around the same and you will have two tools that individually fit both situations better.

Regarding the laptops you posted we purchase the HP Omen laptops for our managers and radiologists at work who need a solid mobile workstation, and with the 3 year warranty and solid business-like construction they are hard to beat.  The graphics are "good enough" for any games as long as you don't max the details and if you like Win 7 more than 10, you can get yours preloaded with it instead.


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## cdawall (Oct 1, 2015)

I already have a small laptop. I want something I can actually use.


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## m&m's (Oct 7, 2015)

Lenovo Y50. It starts at $999 with a 1080p screen and $1099 for 2160p.

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/y-series/y50/

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/y-series/y50-uhd/


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## xvi (Oct 8, 2015)

I've been thinking about starting a thread for pretty much the exact same reason. Been wanting a gaming/desktop-replacement laptop for a while and figured now would be a good time to jump on the Skylake train. There should be some sales going for the Intel 5xxx based laptops if you're looking for a deal. The only Skylake gaming laptops out are the MSI lineup (eyeballing the GE72 Apache or the GT72 Dominator lineup, personally).

*CPU Upgradability*
Mobile Skylake processors are BGA-only, if I'm not mistaken, so upgrading at a later date won't be an (easy) option. Go for something awesome the first time around.

*Dead Pixel Policy*
Stealing from XoticPC's website, it appears that zero dead pixel policies are pretty uncommon. Damn.





*Chipset Options*
Looks like the chipsets in use are either the HM170 or the CM236. Comparing the differences on Intel's ARK, the CM236 is more workstation oriented with additional support for storage and virtualization.





*Brand Research*
I've only dug in to MSI laptops since they're the only Skylake laptops I've found so far.

(LOTS of info in the spoiler)


Spoiler: MSI Laptops



Alright, so, I've stolen an image from ExcaliberPC and I really hope hotlinking will work. Below should be a lineup of MSI's Apache and Dominator lineup.
*17 Inch*








GE72 Apache Pro has a HM170 chipset. Apache Non-Pros are apparently not Skylake.

*15 Inch*




GE62

The GE72 Apache lineup tops out around $1500 whereas the GT72 Dominator (non-pro) lineup will gain an unlocked 6820HK processor, but lose the SSD completely, for $1600. The included SSD needs a weird adapter and I'm not sure if that's included in the non-pro Dominator (see photos below, video here and here). In a nutshell, it's $300 extra to have those SSDs pre-installed, but that price includes the upgrade in hardware to the CM236 chipset too. Part number for the adapter is MS-17812, but I can't find that anywhere. Judging by the SATA capabilities of the HM170 chipset, I'd guess adding it in later is not possible.



 





*Personal Conclusion*
I started researching with about a $1000 budget and the laptop I'm seriously looking at is the $2000 GT72S Dominator G-037. Has the awesome processor, has the awesome chipset, and should come with all four SSDs fully populated (with four wimpy 64GB SSDs though?).
The only reason why I'd pick that is because everything is theoretically upgradable to the high end model. The only difference between the $2000 GT72S-037 and the $2700 GT72-Pro-220 are faster/larger SSDs and the GTX980m instead of a GTX970m (which is supposedly MXM compatible, so theoretically upgradable as well).

If ASUS comes out with a decently priced alternative, I'd seriously consider it just for the dead pixel policy.
I don't like MSI's SSD solution. RAID sounds nice, but I don't know how often I'm going to need ridiculous transfer speeds and I'd rather have 4x blank M.2 slots where I can add my own SSDs instead. (To-do: Try to figure out how much they're charging for just the SSDs. $300 is SSDs and chipset, so..)


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## xvi (Nov 19, 2015)

Decided on the newly released Sager NP9870-S. A friend and I are buying one each through XoticPC, but we've been having a very poor experience with them.

We placed the order (totaling about $5,500) last Monday and they have yet to even charge our card, let alone get them shipped to us. It's been 9 days since we placed the order. It seems the only way the sales order makes any progress is when we call in to check the status of our order. We even purchased the White Glove + Rush Build option.

Sales *did* let us know that it would actually be faster to remove that White Glove/Rush Build option since they had to order the laptop from Sager before they could ship it to us, but if we removed that option, they'd have it shipped directly to us, skipping them.


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2015)

cdawall said:


> So I am finally going to a gaming laptop. I am going to be using it for school as well. So it needs to be able to run a VM pretty well. Trying to decide between a few models.



Wondering it you have considered other options. Like having a gaming desktop and a cheap laptop? Because you spend a lot more $$$ for a gaming laptop that still kinda sucks. An i3 with a GTX 750 Ti would match the mobile i7 + GTX 960m in games. Plus now you have a laptop that is heavy to carry for school as well. I know I wouldn't want to carry around something fragile that cost $1500.


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## cdawall (Nov 19, 2015)

rruff said:


> Wondering it you have considered other options. Like having a gaming desktop and a cheap laptop? Because you spend a lot more $$$ for a gaming laptop that still kinda sucks. An i3 with a GTX 750 Ti would match the mobile i7 + GTX 960m in games. Plus now you have a laptop that is heavy to carry for school as well. I know I wouldn't want to carry around something fragile that cost $1500.



I have a 9370 and dual 7950's all overclocked the hell up. I have plenty of gaming desktop for at home use. I actually have been eyeballing an Acer at work. The Nitro we carry is what I am leaning towards now skylake, DDR4, m.2 SSD, 2.5HDD and a GTX960 on a 1080P screen. It's also under 4lbs and pretty slim.



m&m's said:


> Lenovo Y50. It starts at $999 with a 1080p screen and $1099 for 2160p.
> 
> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/y-series/y50/
> 
> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/y-series/y50-uhd/



I considered the Y50 until the 860M. I know the  960M is basically the same thing, but clocked higher, but after playing with them at work I can't get any of the 860's to clock as high as the 960's. "4k" screen also seems somewhat useless with an 860/960M card I can't game at that resolution.


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2015)

cdawall said:


> I have a 9370 and dual 7950's all overclocked the hell up. I have plenty of gaming desktop for at home use. I actually have been eyeballing an Acer at work. The Nitro we carry is what I am leaning towards now skylake, DDR4, m.2 SSD, 2.5HDD and a GTX960 on a 1080P screen. It's also under 4lbs and pretty slim.



Just so you know, a GTX 960m = GTX 750 Ti. It will struggle with newer games.


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## cdawall (Nov 19, 2015)

rruff said:


> Just so you know, a GTX 960m = GTX 750 Ti. It will struggle with newer games.



I don't expect to max settings out at 1080P if I did I would buy something with a 6820K and GTX980m or two. It should be able to run medium settings with no AA at 1080P


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2015)

Yep, as long as your expectations aren't high. 

The naming convention on the mobile GPUs can be confusing. A GTX 960m is nowhere near a GTX 960 desktop card, and actually specs like a GTX 750 Ti.


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## cdawall (Nov 19, 2015)

That's how the mobile market has been for years.


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## P4-630 (Nov 19, 2015)

Well, I have a GTX770M and I'm able to play every game at decent 1080p settings (till now at least.)


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## cdawall (Nov 19, 2015)

P4-630 said:


> Well, I have a GTX770M and I'm able to play every game at decent 1080p settings (till now at least.)



From what I have read the 4GB GTX960 which is what the Acer has should perform similar if not the same as the 770M


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## P4-630 (Nov 19, 2015)

cdawall said:


> From what I have read the 4GB GTX960 which is what the Acer has should perform similar if not the same as the 770M



Passmark scores:

GTX960M 1616 GD3 Marks http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+960M
GTX770M  2701 GD3 Marks http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+770M


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## cdawall (Nov 19, 2015)

I was going off of their overall scores blended. It was rated higher by notebook review lol I didn't really look any harder.


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2015)

P4-630 said:


> Passmark scores:
> 
> GTX960M 1616 GD3 Marks http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+960M
> GTX770M  2701 GD3 Marks http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+770M



And the Passmark score for a GTX 750 Ti is 3687. Yikes. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+750+Ti


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## P4-630 (Nov 19, 2015)

rruff said:


> And the Passmark score for a GTX 750 Ti is 3687. Yikes. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+750+Ti



Unfortunately it does not fit in my laptop


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## m&m's (Nov 19, 2015)

cdawall said:


> I considered the Y50 until the 860M. I know the  960M is basically the same thing, but clocked higher, but after playing with them at work I can't get any of the 860's to clock as high as the 960's. "4k" screen also seems somewhat useless with an 860/960M card I can't game at that resolution.



The Y50 were updated and use 960M now.

Lenovo also has new series of gaming laptop (that will probably replace the Y50), it's the Y700 (Skylake, DDR4 and 960M). http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/y700-series/y700-15-inch/


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## cdawall (Nov 19, 2015)

They have no m.2 solid state and run the same price as the Acer. I have already played with them the new screen design also looks like asshole. Already have the Y700 at work.


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## m&m's (Nov 19, 2015)

cdawall said:


> They have no m.2 solid state and run the same price as the Acer.



They do. Both SSDs (128GB and 256GB) offered are M.2.

I've never been impress by the quality of Acer's laptops. It always seemed weak as hell with their cheap ass plastics. They might have improved, didn't play with an Acer laptop for at least 3 years.
But if you have both at work, just pick the best right?


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## cdawall (Nov 19, 2015)

m&m's said:


> They do. Both SSDs (128GB and 256GB) offered are M.2.
> 
> I've never been impress by the quality of Acer's laptops. It always seemed weak as hell with their cheap ass plastics. They might have improved, didn't play with an Acer laptop for at least 3 years.
> But if you have both at work, just pick the best right?



Is the lenovo dual bay? m.2 and 2.5? 

I have both at work as well as the new MSI with a similar specs to the Acer/Lenovo. I am planning to just pick the best and go form there. The Acer actually feels more solid than the lenovo and weighs like half a pound less. No idea on the MSI, but we will see what they end up being when I get into work today.


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## rruff (Nov 19, 2015)

P4-630 said:


> Unfortunately it does not fit in my laptop



Sure just for comparison. But frankly I wouldn't use passmark. I think the GTX 960m is actually better than that.


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## cdawall (Nov 19, 2015)

Passmark might be the least useful benchmark for GPU's in existence.


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## m&m's (Nov 19, 2015)

cdawall said:


> Is the lenovo dual bay? m.2 and 2.5?



Yes & yes.



cdawall said:


> I have both at work as well as the new MSI with a similar specs to the Acer/Lenovo. I am planning to just pick the best and go form there. The Acer actually feels more solid than the lenovo and weighs like half a pound less. No idea on the MSI, but we will see what they end up being when I get into work today.



I hope it doesn't have a dragon on it... It's so ugly to me.

Like it's 2003 again.


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## cdawall (Nov 19, 2015)

m&m's said:


> Yes & yes.



Oh well fuck then I don't care anymore. Now it's down to what shows up and looks good.





m&m's said:


> I hope it doesn't have a dragon on it... It's so ugly to me.
> 
> Like it's 2003 again.



It only has the small logo it's not to bad lol[/QUOTE]


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## xvi (Nov 20, 2015)

For mobile GPUs, it looks like the GTX 980m has the same performance as about a desktop GTX 970, a GTX 970m has the same performance as a desktop GTX 960, et cetera, et cetera..

Xotic update, had to get someone else at XoticPC involved and things are still going a bit shaky, but they managed to push it through to the point of getting the card charged. Xotic doesn't build the Sagers themselves, they only do the customization. They're basically just placing the order for us.


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## rruff (Nov 20, 2015)

Close. GTX 970 is about 25% better than a GTX 980m. GTX 970m = GTX 960. GTX 960m is a little below the GTX 750 Ti (not GTX 950). The 980 and 970 desktop cards are ~50% faster than the mobile variants of the same name, but for the 960 it's ~100%. The GTX 970m is ~2x the speed of a 960m, a big jump.


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## cdawall (Nov 20, 2015)

The 970M is a huge jump, I just feel like its way over valued.


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## cdawall (Dec 1, 2015)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...187&cm_re=888863387007-_-34-315-187-_-Product

Well we have these coming into microcenter...Kind of blows my budget up, but for the money how much happier will I be with the 980m?


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## cdawall (Jan 8, 2016)

Well I went a completely different direction. Ended up deciding to just go a Thinkpad Yoga (i7 5500/8GB/512GB SSD+120GB SSD). Got to good of a deal to pass it up and I tried lugging around a gaming laptop around with the 970m in it and that's not happening.


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## P4-630 (Jan 8, 2016)

cdawall said:


> Well I went a completely different direction. Ended up deciding to just go a Thinkpad Yoga (i7 5500/8GB/512GB SSD+120GB SSD). Got to good of a deal to pass it up and I tried lugging around a gaming laptop around with the 970m in it and that's not happening.



So in the end.. Finally NOT doing the gaming laptop thing...


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## cdawall (Jan 8, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> So in the end.. Finally NOT doing the gaming laptop thing...



I can stream from my desktop while I am at the house so I can game some. Boom logic.

And this will play some light older games fine. I already have a couple downloading.


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