# New Mobo/CPU (maybe ram) time.  To PLX chip or Not... so many ways to go.



## neko77025 (Jan 14, 2015)

Well it is time for Motherboard / CPU upgrade.

I am jumping ship to Intel, But their are so many Choices. 

First and foremost this comp is for gaming.  I will be keeping these from my old comp 2x 780 ti,  Rog Xonar Phoebus (soundcard) and will Add A PCI-E SSD ... ROG Raidr Epress or G.SKILL Phoenix Blade.
I also have A Plextor M6e PX-G256M6e M.2 .. but the truth is I dont like it ...it will probably go on ebay. 

So I will need some PCI-E lanes.

This is where the issues come up.

First of all I am not impressed with x99 or DDR4.  Most gaming benchmarks show less then 1or 2 frames at most.  Most of the time not even that.   To me x99/DDR seems Like A really bad value.

LGA 1150 / 4790k.  Main issue here is the 4790k only has 16 PCI-E lanes.  However you can offset this with A good motherboard and A PLX chip.  (if you were to do this witch one would you chooses)

x79 / 3960x/4930k ...maybe 4960x.   Issues here, its the oldest of the tech, does not have some of the features of the newer tech.  However some of the motherboards CPUs cost the same has the new stuff. ( assuming I buy new)


My thoughts are as follows.   I can get A asus Rampage black ed for 330.00 new at newegg and pick up A 3960x/3970x on ebay for about 550.00 ish.  But they are only PCI-E 2.0 ... so maybe I should get A 4930k new for the same price .. ARG.  I have some mushkin 2133 redline that OCs very well...  However I am spending 900.00 on OLD TECH.  I could save money and get the 4790k .. but its only 4cores W/HT 8 ... but at that point I am spending 650ish and for only 250 more I could get the Rampage BE and 4930k .. witch is better over all.  Or I just up out another 500ish and go all out on A x99/5930k and DD4.

ARG ... what to do.


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jan 14, 2015)

People with more knowledge than me will follow this up but i would go with the Rampage be and 4930.

I would also put the soundcard on ebay. Most boards have got excellent built in sound.

From what i have read DDR4  is good but not that good.

 When is your next upgrade?  4 yrs? DDR3  may well be good enough til then.

PLX sounds well useful if you need that kind of grunt. They must be used a lot in mining.


----------



## neko77025 (Jan 14, 2015)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> People with more knowledge than me will follow this up but i would go with the Rampage be and 4930.
> 
> I would also put the soundcard on ebay. Most boards have got excellent built in sound.
> 
> ...




The soundcard is A must I cant stand onboard soundcards .. also its 7.1 and I use razer 7.1 tiamat headset.  

I tend to upgrade A few times on A mobo, say ... if I were to get A 4930 ... in a year or 2 I would get the 4960x.

PLX just addes too the PCI-E lands A chip can run... so the 4970k has 16 lanes .. with PLX chip adding to that so I would beable too run 4x cards at 8x PCI-E 3.0


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jan 14, 2015)

4 cards eh ?

Well beyond my level of experience.

 I was wondering why you needed so many lanes.                       Doh !


----------



## RCoon (Jan 14, 2015)

To me, X99 was a rather bland release, BUT I certainly wouldn't recommend X79 at this stage. A 5820K and a cheap X99 board should provide you with enough PCI-E 3.0 lanes (28) for your needs. 2 GPU's will take 16, leaving 12 for your SSD and soundcard.

PLX is all very nice on Z97 but just don't bother.

Do it once, do it right. Don't buy into old tech.


----------



## Schmuckley (Jan 14, 2015)

If you want framerates/smooth gaming...
Haswell with PLX will be the way to go.
Haswell>Haswell-E or Ivy-E for gaming.
eh..4930K system might be OK..
not as good for gaming as Haswell though.
I've seen that 1st hand by switching platforms and playing same game.
..from 4930K to Haswell Pentium= +12 FPS (dual-core game)


----------



## Ja.KooLit (Jan 14, 2015)

oh I wouldnt go with board with PLX chips. I would go like @RCoon said. 5820k with x99 board. I wouldnt go with old tech neither.


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Jan 14, 2015)

Id hold off until skylake at the end of the year if at all possible. Im still rocking my 2500k from like 2011 and waiting until then to upgrade. If not broadwell is supposed to be up in <6months or so.


----------



## Schmuckley (Jan 15, 2015)

Higher IPC> PCIE lanes.
makes for better gaming.
Haswell is quite nice.
I'd get quality z97 stuff for now.
The next-gen is supposed to be same socket anyway


----------



## newtekie1 (Jan 15, 2015)

neko77025 said:


> LGA 1150 / 4790k. Main issue here is the 4790k only has 16 PCI-E lanes. However you can offset this with A good motherboard and A PLX chip. (if you were to do this witch one would you chooses)



You don't really need a PLX chip, the CPU only provides 16 lanes but the z97 chipset itself provides another 8.  The M.2 slot on most motherboards take 4 lanes from the chipset, and a lot of them wire the 3rd PCI-E x16(electrically x4) slot to the chipset at well.  Both solutions are enough for storage.


----------



## EpicShweetness (Jan 16, 2015)

In my research I found that even something like this does not support 16x 16x or 16x 8x etc. Basically at $300  you can get something like this for cheaper and it has all you need, granted you'll have to spend more on the CPU and RAM. However x8 x8 at PCI 3.0 x8 bandwidth is more than enough for most cards. So it deffinetly something to think about, and oh ya that motherboard is not the most expensive or cheapest X99 motherboard


----------



## newtekie1 (Jan 17, 2015)

EpicShweetness said:


> In my research I found that even something like this does not support 16x 16x or 16x 8x etc. Basically at $300  you can get something like this for cheaper and it has all you need, granted you'll have to spend more on the CPU and RAM. However x8 x8 at PCI 3.0 x8 bandwidth is more than enough for most cards. So it deffinetly something to think about, and oh ya that motherboard is not the most expensive or cheapest X99 motherboard



Yeah, but you have to remember that to get x16/x16 on X99 you have to use at least the 5930K, which is a $575 CPU.  If you go with the 5820K you're limited to 28 PCI-E lanes, so x16/x8 is the best you can do.  At that point you might as well do x8/x8 since you're basically limited by the slowest card anyway.

And the Maximus VII Formula is a massive rip-off z97.  You can get everything you need for 1150, even for an SLI setup, for half that price.  In fact the Z97 Extreme6 will handle two-way SLI easily, and it has the extra x16 slot that runs at x2 for a PCI-E based SSD the OP wants and two x1 slots for the OP's sound card.


----------



## Petey (Jan 17, 2015)

If you plan on overclocking 59xx on water cooled you may have to look into delidding your processor. To get good temps. the 4930k is a solder interface which does help, but the upgrade to a overclockable 8 core isn't there. It was like insane, 3 months after my 2011 build that cost some money, they decide to introduce the 2011-2 socket. To keep up new motherboard memory and cpu. Cant afford to leap again, intel changes socket faster than shipping takes to reach the door, or how it feels anyways. Cant complain about 2011, still beats most anything out there just thought it would have a longer life span, or does anyone know if they will keep the platform or is it discontinued, and replaced by 2011-v2.


----------



## the54thvoid (Jan 17, 2015)

Having been flashing my Nvidia gpu's for a while now, I've come across posts from other forums that mention flashing GPU's with a PLX chip on your mobo can be really bad for the mobo.  Just in case you were planning on flashing any gfx cards.  I think the chip can be mistaken for a graphics subsystem and it gets flashed (into broken scrap).


----------



## Petey (Jan 17, 2015)

hope they will provide the proper bios update, the motherboard shouldn't see on board gpu, or any sub system, Im sure bios update will be needed with test bench applications out there,  mobo will pressure them into proper architecture. Do repairs of Gpu for people would suck to have mobo freeze or flashed into scrap.


----------



## newtekie1 (Jan 17, 2015)

the54thvoid said:


> Having been flashing my Nvidia gpu's for a while now, I've come across posts from other forums that mention flashing GPU's with a PLX chip on your mobo can be really bad for the mobo. Just in case you were planning on flashing any gfx cards. I think the chip can be mistaken for a graphics subsystem and it gets flashed (into broken scrap).


Yep, my P55 FTW 200 was like this.  The PLX chip would be recognized as GPU0 whenever I was flashing.


----------



## Petey (Jan 17, 2015)

Some where out there in the bios for 79xx amd cards it does show where you can select gpu 0 gpu 1 gpu2 in CMD may take a while to find but it may help to select the gpu directly for bios update or reflash.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 17, 2015)

neko77025 said:


> Well it is time for Motherboard / CPU upgrade.
> 
> I am jumping ship to Intel, But their are so many Choices.
> 
> ...


X99 all the way, bud. 5930K and the right board, and you'll be happy for a long time.

I mean, I got AMD, X79, X99, Z87, Z97, and all that...X99 wins hands down. Z97, oh man..the HEAT....X99 doesn't have that problem. It is a TRUE HIGH-END platform. So yeah, it's got HIGH-END COST....

whut, you don't wanna pay for high-end performance? Then you can't expect high-end performance.

All this DDR4 is slow blah blah blah stuff... PSH. Ain't no thang but a chicken wang! You want to build a rig, given your ideas here, that needs that memory bandwidth. Multi-GPU, plus PCIe SSD? dude...that's memory-bus overkill!


----------



## neko77025 (Jan 17, 2015)

I am sure I will not go with z97.    That leaves me x99 / x79.  The issues with x99 is all of the CPU have the same benchmarks as the x79 counterparts.   the 5930k scores the same as the 4930k , same for 5960x/ 4960x.  At most I see 2FPS in A games. So you get 2fps out of 2x more cores and DDR4 ?

Then ppl say well if you go X99 vs x79 you can upgrade your mem and CPU later.  True, .. kind of.  I would have too get the few faster DDR4 again and I am sure the next 59XX we be the same prices as the other ones .. so it just like building A new system with a first gen mobo.   

AS of right now , I think of the x79 = x99.  I do believe x99 will be better, but A year or 2 from now.   I could get x99 and upgrade parts as they come out .. .but i think that would just be like building a new system again.


----------



## GreiverBlade (Jan 17, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> X99 all the way, bud. 5930K and the right board, and you'll be happy for a long time.
> 
> I mean, I got AMD, X79, X99, Z87, Z97, and all that...X99 wins hands down. Z97, oh man..the HEAT....X99 doesn't have that problem. It is a TRUE HIGH-END platform. So yeah, it's got HIGH-END COST....
> 
> ...


errrhhhmmm with all the respect i have for you cadaveca ... heat on a Z97??? eh?(really i do not see what you mean and it's a question not a sarcasm)  X99 being worth for something else than heavy video/3D editing? eh? (bis) DDR4 having any worth over DDR3? Eh? (third ... also should rename to DDR3.5) 

ofc i agree if you want high end you pay high end but the end result is ... depending the usage ... but for games ... hands down is a good Z97+4690/4790K
if i would go X99 i would go 5960X and nothing under if i don't have the budget: then my Z97+i5-4690K is plenty ( who really need more than 2 card or ... even 1 given the efficiency of SLI/CFX) 

(on a second thought i hope you where sarcastic in your post ... the type of "brah ya want powah ya need to rack sum cash for powah" lead me to that conclusion  but i suspect it's just me and my delusions  )

so for saying OP if you have the budget and money to waste for 2-3fps more : go for a X99+59XX if you desperately want to shave the cost on parts ... do not go X79, PLX? well that could be good (if you need more than 2 card ... which is ... kinda completely off if it's for gaming...)  a Z97 will be Broadwell compatible and the i7-i5 of the Devil's Canyon refresh are plenty to play games ... (the i7 is more for hybrid game/editing and the i5 is the pure gaming perfect CPU )


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 18, 2015)

Given his choice of two VGAs, and sound card, and PCIe SSD, I don't see how Z97 and its limited PCIe connectivity would even work. Adding the SSD would take the second VGA down to x4...and that would mean that SLI won't work.

I don't see any other alternative other than a PLX-based board, and given the cost, and then the limited board choices, Z97 seems like the wrong choice.



neko77025 said:


> I am sure I will not go with z97.    That leaves me x99 / x79.  The issues with x99 is all of the CPU have the same benchmarks as the x79 counterparts.   the 5930k scores the same as the 4930k , same for 5960x/ 4960x.  At most I see 2FPS in A games. So you get 2fps out of 2x more cores and DDR4 ?
> Then ppl say well if you go X99 vs x79 you can upgrade your mem and CPU later.  True, .. kind of.  I would have too get the few faster DDR4 again and I am sure the next 59XX we be the same prices as the other ones .. so it just like building A new system with a first gen mobo.
> AS of right now , I think of the x79 = x99.  I do believe x99 will be better, but A year or 2 from now.   I could get x99 and upgrade parts as they come out .. .but i think that would just be like building a new system again.




My own testing doesn't show X79 = X99. I have multiple 4960X, and 5930K. 5930K = 4960X, but with the lower clockspeed of the 5930K at stock, once OC'd, the 4960X doesn't compete(3.7 GHz 5930K vs 4.0 GHz 4960X). If you are going to outlay the cash in the first place, might as well go with the latest, and get a bit more longevity out of your system, too.

That said, definitely X79 is capable of meeting the needs of most users, but at the same time, I don't really pay for my hardware, so cost is something I don't consider too much. Given cost considerations, the added drive connectivity options of X99, X99 would be my choice, given that I could do it for within a couple 100 bucks.


----------



## newtekie1 (Jan 18, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Given his choice of two VGAs, and sound card, and PCIe SSD, I don't see how Z97 and its limited PCIe connectivity would even work. Adding the SSD would take the second VGA down to x4...and that would mean that SLI won't work.
> 
> I don't see any other alternative other than a PLX-based board, and given the cost, and then the limited board choices, Z97 seems like the wrong choice.



Like I said, the Z97 Extreme6 wouldn't have that problem.  The 3rd PCI-E x16 slot is wired to the chipset, so the adding the PCI-E SSD wouldn't bring the second GPU down to x4.  And the sound card can go in either of the x1 slots, again without affecting the GPUs.  Sure it is only an x2 slot, but that is still 1GB/s in each direction, and the ROG RAIDR Express wouldn't max that out.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 18, 2015)

Does the ROG RAIDR even work in that board?

Sometimes PCIe SSDs don't work well unless paired with specific boards... Just something else to consider.


----------



## newtekie1 (Jan 18, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Does the ROG RAIDR even work in that board?
> 
> Sometimes PCIe SSDs don't work well unless paired with specific boards... Just something else to consider.



I'm not sure, that problem and the fact that I don't see PCI-E SSDs as necessary means I haven't really researched them.  I just know the OP was looking at using the ROG RAIDR Express.

Edit: I think the ROG RAIDR should work fine in pretty much any board since it uses a pretty standard LSI RAID controller.


----------



## Caring1 (Jan 18, 2015)

neko77025 said:


> PLX just addes too the PCI-E lands A chip can run... so the 4970k has 16 lanes .. with PLX chip adding to that so I would be able too run 4x cards at 8x PCI-E 3.0


Although you said you don't want to go the Z97 path, this one would do the job nicely > http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z97 Extreme9/  and it uses the slightly cheaper socket 1150 (compared to the X99)
I've found there aren't too many boards that have 3 or more PCI-e 3x16 lanes as they tend to only have one or two and the others are the older PCI-e 2x16 which can limit bandwidth.


----------



## GreiverBlade (Jan 18, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Given his choice of two VGAs, and sound card, and PCIe SSD, I don't see how Z97 and its limited PCIe connectivity would even work. Adding the SSD would take the second VGA down to x4...and that would mean that SLI won't work.
> 
> I don't see any other alternative other than a PLX-based board, and given the cost, and then the limited board choices, Z97 seems like the wrong choice.


oh yes thanks cadaveca i forgot about the PciE SSD, yet i wonder how work the PciE M.2 on a Z97 for example in my rig if i add a 2nd 290 + a M.2 PciE SSd (dunno i just find PciE SSD useless nowaday ...  : hogging PciE lane for nothing in the end or even versus a good Sata3 SSD, ofc when it come to gaming ... if it's benching/computing/other intensive task i could understand)



Caring1 said:


> Although you said you don't want to go the Z97 path, this one would do the job nicely > http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z97 Extreme9/  and it uses the slightly cheaper socket 1150 (compared to the X99)
> I've found there aren't too many boards that have 3 or more PCI-e 3x16 lanes as they tend to only have one or two and the others are the older PCI-e 2x16 which can limit bandwidth.



YES... but also it's what the OP asked Z97+PLX and as cadaveca wrote, it has a cost, and versus a X99 platform even if it's a wiser choice for the intended use , well technically a lot of mobo have 3 or more PciE but only physical X16 (ie: my MVIIR has 3 physical and if trifire tri SLI : x8/x8/x4) but that ASRock can do x8/x8/x8x/x8 so technically with only 2 card it could still have enough lane for a PciE SSD ... but now the concern is on the memory bandwidth needed for that setup (not that its a big concern when we see the intended use of the rig...)

well 239$~ is not so bad for a mobo like that ...


----------

