# Question about Sandy Bridge vs Ivy Bridge, k version, overclocking and cooling



## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

From what I have ready, Ivy Bridge runs hotter, and you should not even consider overclocking without some serious cooling. Like, spend at very least a couple hundred of dollars on cooling.

So in this case, say you had a 3770K and you wanted to overclock. You would need to spend another say $300 on cooling or risk permanently damaging the card from overheating.

In the alternative scenario, consider Sandy Bridge. Since it runs cooler, you could safely overclock quite a bit with at most a $40 fan cooler like this: COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Contin...

Now let's look at overall costs:

2600K: $320 (new) + $35 cooler 
= $355 total

3770K: $320 (new) + $300 to $600 in cooling
= $620 to $920 total

Benchmarks rate the 3770K to perform somewhere around 3% to 7% better than the 2600K. But if these prices and analysis are correct, then by overclocking,  *the 2600K could way surpass the 3770K at the same cost, considering cooling*.

So, for you experts, what do you think about this? Do you have anything to add or clarify?
Perhaps you can shed some light on this issue?


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## TheLaughingMan (Nov 18, 2012)

The issue is your ridiculous and completely unbalance cooling requirements. With $300+ spend in cooling, you must be thinking custom loop and attempting to reach well over 5.0 GHz, both of which is completely unneeded for daily use and/or gaming.

On the flip side, the 2600K will not be overclocked very far with a $35 cooler of any kind and you will be limited to 4.4 GHz to maintain stability. So why are you shortchanging the 2600K?

The 3770K performance is more like 7% to 15% faster at the same clock speed to my knowledge. While it does run a bit hotter, keeping them in comparable temperature range, you will be spending like $75 on cooling, not $300. Is it worth the extra $40? Yes, yes it is.


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## AlienIsGOD (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> So in this case, say you had a 3770K and you wanted to overclock. You would need to spend another say $300 on cooling or risk permanently damaging the card from overheating.



i think your overheating   any $40-60 cooler can take a IB to 4.0 ghz with ease


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## Darkleoco (Nov 18, 2012)

Just as a note a good motherboard will also make or break overclocking. I have a p67 sabertooth and the overclocking is rather subpar so if you don't spend good money on a motherboard don't expect any great overclocks.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

TheLaughingMan said:


> The issue is your ridiculous and completely unbalance cooling requirements. With $300+ spend in cooling, you must be thinking custom loop and attempting to reach well over 5.0 GHz, both of which is completely unneeded for daily use and/or gaming.
> 
> On the flip side, the 2600K will not be overclocked very far with a $35 cooler of any kind and you will be limited to 4.4 GHz to maintain stability. So why are you shortchanging the 2600K?
> 
> The 3770K performance is more like 7% to 15% faster at the same clock speed to my knowledge. While it does run a bit hotter, keeping them in comparable temperature range, you will be spending like $75 on cooling, not $300. Is it worth the extra $40? Yes, yes it is.



Ok, this directly answers my concerns.

As far as exaggerating the differences, it was for emphasis. But you understood what I was asking, and excellent answer.

Combine that with Sandy Bridge incompatibility with PCE-e (for ATI since NVIDIA released a patch for this), and the Ivy-bridge is still the winner.




Darkleoco said:


> Just as a note a good motherboard will also make or break overclocking. I have a p67 sabertooth and the overclocking is rather subpar so if you don't spend good money on a motherboard don't expect any great overclocks.



I've got a z77 motherboard. Check my build thread for full details if you're interested.


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## erocker (Nov 18, 2012)

You can see the difference (between 2.0 x16 and 3.0 x16) is minimal. 1-2%


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

erocker said:


> You can see the difference (between 2.0 x16 and 3.0 x16) is minimal. 1-2%
> 
> http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Intel/Ivy_Bridge_PCI-Express_Scaling/images/perfrel.gif



88% to 96% = 8%? What am I missing?
Nevermind.  for the ATI card it is 2% 

Thank you 

p.s. I keep seeing those benchmarks (that look like that); what website can I run those benchmarks?


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## erocker (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> 88% to 96% = 8%? What am I missing?
> Nevermind.  for the ATI card it is 2%
> 
> Thank you
> ...



Those graphs are made by W1zzard for reviews on this site. You can find reviews here: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/


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## repman244 (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> 88% to 96% = 8%? What am I missing?



x4 x8 x16....


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 18, 2012)

repman244 said:


> x4 x8 x16....



No, I saw that. I was looking at the 680 not the 7970.

680 is 1-8%, but 7970 is 1-4%


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## repman244 (Nov 18, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> No, I saw that. I was looking at the 680 not the 7970.
> 
> 680 is 8%, but 7970 is 2%



88% is at x4...compare PCI-e 3.0 x16 to PCI-e 2.0 x16 = 1%


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## erocker (Nov 18, 2012)

1% difference:


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 22, 2012)

erocker said:


> 1% difference:
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/121118/perfrel.jpg



Thanks. However, it's 1% difference only for the most expensive cards, though, which are not my cards.


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## Jack1n (Nov 23, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Thanks. However, it's 1% difference only for the most expensive cards, though, which are not my cards.



The most expensive(powerful) cards require the most bandwidth, for slower cards the difference would smaller or there would be no difference between 8x to 16x at all.


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## INSTG8R (Nov 23, 2012)

Darkleoco said:


> Just as a note a good motherboard will also make or break overclocking. I have a p67 sabertooth and the overclocking is rather subpar so if you don't spend good money on a motherboard don't expect any great overclocks.



Odd. I have had 2 and both have overclocked quite well. I mean I have never attempted any extreme OC but does 4.6 with little effort.


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## Jack1n (Nov 23, 2012)

Sabertooth motherboard are high-end and should OC well,either you are missings a settings or two,or you got a bad cpu sample.


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## Jetster (Nov 23, 2012)

I run my i5 2500k at 4.4 with a 212 evo. Prime hits 71c  3dmark11 hits 68c. I would still rather have a IB i5-3570K


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## cdawall (Nov 23, 2012)

Yet again we have a thread started by vawrvawerawe which includes massive ridiculousness and a failure to comprehend a simple graph.

Buy a 3770K and buy an H60/70/80.


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## de.das.dude (Nov 23, 2012)

How much time he still got left?


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 24, 2012)

dunno, still waiting on all the compenents


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## Jstn7477 (Nov 24, 2012)

My 3770K is at 4.4GHz @ 1.185v on a Hyper 212 EVO and 2 Cougar 1200RPM fans in push-pull. Maximum temperature under IntelBurnTest is 90-92c on core 1 and the package after twisting the center bolt on the mounting bracket clockwise all the way. 4.5GHz is unstable even with 1.225v and 4.6 hangs at UEFI.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 24, 2012)

I just did some googling, and found one guy who went extremely overboard LOL


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## cdawall (Nov 24, 2012)

I would wager my setup could get lower temps and doesn't look like the bronze man pooped it out.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 24, 2012)

I wish I could block you, cdawall


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## adulaamin (Nov 24, 2012)

I've got a 3770k at 4.5 ghz, 1.23v... Cooled by a 212 EVO with Scythe GT AP-30s in push/pull... maxes out at 75C (10 passes of IBT)... $300 to cool a 3770k? With a custom loop maybe...


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## cdawall (Nov 24, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> I wish I could block you, cdawall









Seriously ton's of people are nice enough to answer your repetitive and ridiculous questions try some google mixed with a little common sense.


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## sneekypeet (Nov 24, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> I wish I could block you, cdawall



There is an ignore list in your userCP, go in and make it happen!


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 24, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> There is an ignore list in your userCP, go in and make it happen!



Thanks!!


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## drdeathx (Nov 24, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> From what I have ready, Ivy Bridge runs hotter, and you should not even consider overclocking without some serious cooling. Like, spend at very least a couple hundred of dollars on cooling.
> 
> So in this case, say you had a 3770K and you wanted to overclock. You would need to spend another say $300 on cooling or risk permanently damaging the card from overheating.
> 
> ...



You won't get any serious overclocking with a 212+ on a 2600K


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## drdeathx (Nov 24, 2012)

Jack1n said:


> The most expensive(powerful) cards require the most bandwidth, for slower cards the difference would smaller or there would be no difference between 8x to 16x at all.





There is very little difference if any at 8x or 16x even in PCIE 3.0 even with high end cards BTW.


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## trickson (Nov 27, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> From what I have ready, Ivy Bridge runs hotter, and you should not even consider overclocking without some serious cooling. Like, spend at very least a couple hundred of dollars on cooling.



http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g30/c83/s137/list/p1/Liquid_Cooling-Water_Cooling_Kits_Cases-Water_Cooling_Kits-Page1.html

Choose a good kit. I did I have had liquid cooling for 5 years now and love it. Just remember it is fun and takes time. There are tons of threads on this hereon how to setup and test and I suggest you read them. 

Please take a chill pill too. cdawall is a very smart person and has helped me more times than I can count so please be respectful to every one here or you will end up not getting any one to help you ever again.


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## Binge (Nov 27, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> There is an ignore list in your userCP, go in and make it happen!



I have two names I made happen today   Most informative post in this thread.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 28, 2012)

trickson said:


> http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g30/c83/s137/list/p1/Liquid_Cooling-Water_Cooling_Kits_Cases-Water_Cooling_Kits-Page1.html
> 
> Choose a good kit. I did I have had liquid cooling for 5 years now and love it. Just remember it is fun and takes time. There are tons of threads on this hereon how to setup and test and I suggest you read them.
> 
> Please take a chill pill too. cdawall is a very smart person and has helped me more times than I can count so please be respectful to every one here or you will end up not getting any one to help you ever again.



Thanks. Expensive, but can I buy that $220 water cooler and then remove all my fans and have a silent PC? Curious. If so then I will most likely do this in the near future.


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## de.das.dude (Nov 28, 2012)

hey, vawrvawerawe, wasnt your stuff supposed to have arrived by now? where is the build thread ?


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## RCoon (Nov 28, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> Thanks. Expensive, but can I buy that $220 water cooler and then remove all my fans and have a silent PC? Curious. If so then I will most likely do this in the near future.



removing fans from a liquid cooled setup costing $220 is silly D:
for 3770k i think most people are running a H80/H100 or something near identical for their cpu, and achieve wonderful clocks with such a cooler, and it really isnt that expensive. You'll probably find overclocking isnt that hard when it comes to temperature nowadays for 24/7 pc use, as the high end aftermarket coolers look after the cpu quite well. More of it is down to your skill on a well made OC'ing motherboard, and getting lucky with a golden chip.
Take for example my setup, I cannot get to 5Ghz like a fair few others can, and my cpu runs 10 degrees below the recommended top temperature.


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## 1nf3rn0x (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm so confused. He has such a nice computer yet knows little to nothing about computers. Little to nothing in the sense of comparison to tpu members of course.

Since when did it cost 600-900$ to cool a 3770k.


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## RCoon (Nov 28, 2012)

1nf3rn0x said:


> I'm so confused. He has such a nice computer yet knows little to nothing about computers. Little to nothing in the sense of comparison to tpu members of course.
> 
> Since when did it cost 600-900$ to cool a 3770k.



i dont think he has it yet, just ordered the part?


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## de.das.dude (Nov 28, 2012)

na he ordered it a week ago, he said he would receive the case tomorrow. and he said that a week ago


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## RCoon (Nov 28, 2012)

de.das.dude said:


> na he ordered it a week ago, he said he would receive the case tomorrow. and he said that a week ago



when i order parts i pay for next day delivery and regardless of how many different warehouses they have to source from, they all come together next day! maybe his postal service/supplier sucks?


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## Aquinus (Nov 28, 2012)

de.das.dude said:


> na he ordered it a week ago, he said he would receive the case tomorrow. and he said that a week ago



:shadedshu
I share our mutual dissatisfaction.

Let's sing a song! (I made an adaptation or two.)

Ohhhhhhhh.....



> These threads just never end.
> They go on and on my friends.
> vawrvawerawe started posting it not knowing what it was,
> And he will continue posting it forever just because.....
> ...





RCoon said:


> when i order parts i pay for next day delivery and regardless of how many different warehouses they have to source from, they all come together next day! maybe his postal service/supplier sucks?



I only do when the cost of overnight is significantly less than what I am paying already. My last upgraded costed 1720 USD and I got overnight for 80 USD. 80 USD isn't worth it if you only spent 300 USD but if I'm already spending over a thousand, it's a drop in the pool.


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## DanTheMan (Nov 28, 2012)

cdawall said:


> http://www.deviantart.com/download/165741915/Sad_Panda_Chibi_by_mongrelssister.png
> 
> Seriously ton's of people are nice enough to answer your repetitive and ridiculous questions try some google mixed with a little common sense.



Well only one thing is missing from this equation (guess which one - Google or common sense )


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## de.das.dude (Nov 28, 2012)

RCoon said:


> when i order parts i pay for next day delivery and regardless of how many different warehouses they have to source from, they all come together next day! maybe his postal service/supplier sucks?



or maybe he is a fake.  
i bet he is some 12 year old who just got himself a pc and a net connection. and before this he used to be a console kid.


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## drdeathx (Nov 28, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> I wish I could block you, cdawall



Cdwall is not a bad guy but at times goes overboard...


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## Sasqui (Nov 28, 2012)

Ok, back to the question of overclocking.

Last week, my sparkly new 3570k got to 4.7 Ghz on a $39 cooler, running Prime95 overnight with no problems.  Here's the dramatic thread  :

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175725


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## Ed_1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Sasqui said:


> Ok, back to the question of overclocking.
> 
> Last week, my sparkly new 3570k got to 4.7 Ghz on a $39 cooler, running Prime95 overnight with no problems.  Here's the dramatic thread  :
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175725



right ,as long as you don't try extreme OC with IB a good air cooled HS like 212 evo should give good 4.5-4.7 w/o going over 80c or so, of course will depend on chip and how good IHS was installed .

Something like H100 will give tiny bit more head room and maybe slightly less voltage needed but it won't be earth shattering .


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## XL-R8R (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm just wondering (or hoping) there is enough common sense from you regular TPU guys to leave this thread alone and help more needing and deserving people with their posts as I'm sure they need assistance more than this guy needs to troll for stuff Google can answer(and mainly ignore advice given when he gets it, insisting he can prove it wrong), taking both your time and _teh LULZ_ in the process.

He got his question answered to the fullest of the ability of any one here (a question he could of asked in one of his other 3829747392 threads) and at this point its just backwards and forwards "brown noise" chat, to be honest.


Nothing to see here...

Let it die and help someone else, TPU regulars?? 





And yes, a 3x70k will overclock just fine on mid-end air cooling.... and yes, the better the cooling the better the overclocking headroom you'll have. 
No, you don't need to spend $489 on liquid to overclock to high 4's and no, I don't have anything more to add than thread other than what has already been stated by the fine people here.... 383 times since you joined.


Be gone now.

:shadedshu


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 28, 2012)

drdeathx said:


> Cdwall is not a bad guy but at times goes overboard...



I agree. He gave some good info before posting uselessness.



XL-R8R said:


> aaa



Just unsubscribe if you don't want to continue posting here. Best of luck.
Personally I am enjoying the thread and how many people are giving good information.



Ed_1 said:


> right ,as long as you don't try extreme OC with IB a good air cooled HS like 212 evo should give good 4.5-4.7 w/o going over 80c or so, of course will depend on chip and how good IHS was installed .
> 
> Something like H100 will give tiny bit more head room and maybe slightly less voltage needed but it won't be earth shattering .



Will H100 be much more (significantly) quieter though?


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## JrRacinFan (Nov 28, 2012)

drdeathx said:


> You won't get any serious overclocking with a 212+ on a 2600K



No you won't but you don't need to OC a 2600k/3770k either. They are plenty fast enough at stock.

@vaw

cdawall is really a great guy, you just gotta take some criticism, It's his normal joking. I've come accustomed to it.  @ cdawall


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## Aquinus (Nov 29, 2012)

JrRacinFan said:


> cdawall is really a great guy, you just gotta take some criticism, It's his normal joking. I've come accustomed to it.  @ cdawall



Are you sure it isn't more basic than that?


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## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 29, 2012)

I feel like half this guys questions that he makes threads about can be asked and researched on google(What my co workers at microsoft always say. GOOGLE IT). I also find his threads to last way longer then they should, either by people commenting about his nonscense or him asking the same question that was answered number of times before.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 29, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I feel like half this guys questions that he makes threads about can be asked and researched on google(What my co workers at microsoft always say. GOOGLE IT). I also find his threads to last way longer then they should, either by people commenting about his nonscense or him asking the same question that was answered number of times before.



sure, I googled it. You must realize that GOOGLE cannot always be trusted. Which is why *after googling* I then come here and other forums to ask *real people who actually have done it,* their opinion. What is sad, is that so many people google something and believe the first thing they read. Then they vehemently insist they are right because "they read it on google". and then they tell other people to go google instead of helping them.

Smart people google *AND* ask real people for advice.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 29, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> sure, I googled it. You must realize that GOOGLE cannot always be trusted. Which is why *after googling* I then come here and other forums to ask *real people who actually have done it,* their opinion. What is sad, is that so many people google something and believe the first thing they read. Then they vehemently insist they are right because "they read it on google". and then they tell other people to go google instead of helping them.
> 
> Smart people google *AND* ask real people for advice.



More like most people have common sense about these things, and dont just pick any random source to base their research off. Oh and if you know any degree about critical thinking, then you would know not to take everything as royalty, and attempt to figure things out yourself.


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## vawrvawerawe (Nov 29, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> More like most people have common sense about these things, and dont just pick any random source to base their research off. Oh and if you know any degree about critical thinking, then you would know not to take everything as royalty, and attempt to figure things out yourself.



When spending over $2000, I prefer not to leave it up to trial and error. Thanks anyways.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 29, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> When spending over $2000, I prefer not to leave it up to trial and error. Thanks anyways.



My first system I built was that much and I was 14. All my money that I spent on it from saving over 2 years. Spent a month watching videos on youtube, and reading books on this stuff, and various other research. Didn't join a forum, till after I built the system.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 29, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> To only watch youtube videos and read books you could have only spent $200 on that system. But you were only 14, so you couldn't be expected to know to take advice and spend your money wisely.



yeah, id like to see that. $200 for the system I built. Maybe $200 if I were to build it again now.


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## cdawall (Nov 29, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> No, $200 to watch youtube and read books.



When did youtube start costing money or the library?


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## cdawall (Nov 29, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> if you had read, he said he build a $2000 system when he was 14 and all he did on it was watch youtube and browse the internet and read books.



No you cannot read he said he read books and watched youtube to learn how to build it and what to buy.



MxPhenom 216 said:


> My first system I built was that much and I was 14. All my money that I spent on it from saving over 2 years. *Spent a month watching videos on youtube, and reading books on this stuff, and various other research.* Didn't join a forum, till after I built the system.



See vamrvawerawe notice how he never says all he used it for was youtube.


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## cdawall (Nov 29, 2012)

vawrvawerawe said:


> You're right, my mistake. Stop being a child and arguing about stuff. Let other people speak for themselves if they are misunderstood.



Wait so you make a cocky post about how I need to read when you cannot and I am arguing and you are the poor misunderstood guy


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