# 120mm AIO for 3700x



## moproblems99 (Mar 26, 2020)

So I have an ITX case, CM Elite 110.  I can't fit a 240 so I am looking at a 120.  The reason I have so much of an issue is that even with the SFF PSU, the PSU covers about half of the Wraith cooler with about 1-2mm to spare.  Needless to say, it is very loud.  Almost unusable.

Anyone using a 120mm AIO for a 3600 or 3700x?


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## Hyderz (Mar 26, 2020)

using an aio water cooler might give you space on the cpu mounting side but from the looks of the case, you need enough clearance for a radiator and a fan mounted on top of it... and also enough clearance for those tube... 
i dont recommend the aio water cooler for that case... 









						Cooler Master's Elite 110 mini-ITX case reviewed
					

Like most PC enthusiasts, I like power—and lots of it. It’s especially cool when that power comes in a small package. While chipmakers are cramming more and more power into...




					techreport.com
				



^ the website shows its a nightmare spaghetti fest of cable management in that case...

could you upload some pics, maybe the forum guys can see and then go from there?


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## de.das.dude (Mar 26, 2020)

mount the fan from the outside? will that work? i too have a small case and my GPU was taking over the side exhaust, so i mounted a fan from the outside. Just cut a two chunks from the mesh to pass the fan plug through. works well


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## tabascosauz (Mar 26, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> So I have an ITX case, CM Elite 110.  I can't fit a 240 so I am looking at a 120.  The reason I have so much of an issue is that even with the SFF PSU, the PSU covers about half of the Wraith cooler with about 1-2mm to spare.  Needless to say, it is very loud.  Almost unusable.
> 
> Anyone using a 120mm AIO for a 3600 or 3700x?



The Elite 110 really isn't conducive to performance parts of any sort at all.

Have you considered a SG05 (with SFX PSU) or SG13 (with ATX PSU) before? They are pretty damn small, retain the same layout as the Elite 110, but have a fair bit more space at the front of the case for a 120mm AIO that can be fit in pretty easily. Even more space in the case of the SG13. I know from experience that with a modular PSU, even without custom sleeved cables (ideally), it's a relative breeze to build in either of them. My NZXT X31 had no real fitment problems on LGA1150 with either the SG05 or SG13.

The issue with the Elite 110 is that although it is of the same layout, it's quite short, length-wise. Three problems:
- Limits the length of GPU that you can use, same goes for the SG05 kind of
- Barely enough space for a standard 25mm thick fan, let alone a fan + radiator
- PSU cable clearance, especially for modular units with their PSU-side connectors taking up space, is called into question

Alternatively, the Elite 110 does have 76mm of clearance to work with. Cooler-wise, that means that a Noctua NH-L9x65 and NH-L12S could be in the running too. With the L9x65 (65mm), you're looking at Wraith-like performance in a small case (hell, it was the _original_ of the two chunky 92mm top-downs), but potentially reduced noise with the A9x14 fan, which is pretty quiet, but acoustic performance is dependent on the case. The NH-L12S (70mm as it is out of the box) seems to be around the L9x65 in performance, if not a little better due to it following the C14S' style rather than the L9i and L9x65, but chances are the A12x15 (even though it's a 15mm "thin" fan) can move more air while remaining quieter than the A9x14. Fan is also underneath the heatsink on the L12S, no worrying about it contacting the PSU.


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## moproblems99 (Mar 26, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> The Elite 110 really isn't conducive to performance parts of any sort at all.



Yeah, tell me about it.  I had the case hanging around from another project and was trying to do this on the cheap.

I am going to have to buy a new cooler one way or the other so I figured I would start there.  A local shop near me has the Alphacool Eisbar and Eisberg as well as a few others.  I need to see what thickness rad I can fit in the front.  I wish there was a shorter 5700xt I could pop in.

Edit:. As a side note, this just my experimental build.  My main PC is the other end of the spectrum in a Tower 900.


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## moproblems99 (Mar 27, 2020)

Ok, so here are my choices:


Thermal take water 3.0 Performer
Thermal take water 3.0 Performer C with low noise connector (China Only?)
Silverstone TD03.
Alphacool Eisberg
Cooler master MasterLiquid 120L
NZXT Kraken 22
There are more but these are generally the ones under $80 or close to it.  I may just go with the cheapest because it has to be quieter than the Wraith.


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## basco (Mar 27, 2020)

alphacool has the advantage of the quick connector,fill hole and keep care radiator thickness of 45mm but for me too expensive for a 120mm aio

but here ya can quickly look what features ya want like warranty or what thickness+++






						Wasserkühlung Komplettsets mit Kühlkörper: CPU, Radiatorgröße: 120mm Preisvergleich Geizhals EU
					

Preisvergleich und Bewertungen für Wasserkühlung Komplettsets mit Kühlkörper: CPU, Radiatorgröße: 120mm




					geizhals.eu


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## Auer (Mar 27, 2020)

I use a Arctic 120 on a 2700 with good results. Pretty quiet too.








						Multi-Compatible All in One CPU Water Cooling | ARCTIC
					

The most efficient cooling for CPUs: ARCTIC‘s Liquid-Freezer AiO water coolers deliver high performance with simple installation and an unbeatable pr…




					www2.arctic.ac


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## moproblems99 (Mar 27, 2020)

basco said:


> alphacool has the advantage of the quick connector,fill hole and keep care radiator thickness of 45mm but for me too expensive for a 120mm aio
> 
> but here ya can quickly look what features ya want like warranty or what thickness+++
> 
> ...



The Eisberg is the most expensive on this list at $89.99.  They also have the Eisbear but that is $117.99.  I am not paying that for a 120mm AIO.  I will likely just go with the Tt Water 3.0 or something since it is like $64.99.  I would prefer to keep it under $75 but the Eisberg does have a slightly thicker radiator.



Auer said:


> I use a Arctic 120 on a 2700 with good results. Pretty quiet too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know there are other models out there but these are the ones I get locally and not have to wait for an eternity to have something else delivered.


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 27, 2020)

I know the M22 sucks but the others on the list should perform similarly it will just come down to the Fan you put on it and how much noise you're ok with.

Not sure about the 120 but the 240 and 360 thermaltakes have really short tube length compared to corsair that may work in your favor if its the same on the 120mm variant.


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## Caring1 (Mar 27, 2020)

The CoolerMaster hoses aren't that flexible, so that has to be taken into consideration too, although they are cheap and effective.


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## moproblems99 (Mar 28, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I know the M22 sucks but the others on the list should perform similarly it will just come down to the Fan you put on it and how much noise you're ok with.
> 
> Not sure about the 120 but the 240 and 360 thermaltakes have really short tube length compared to corsair that may work in your favor if its the same on the 120mm variant.



Yeah, ok with some noise.  Just not the jet engine I have now.  And short hoses are ok in this case.



Caring1 said:


> The CoolerMaster hoses aren't that flexible, so that has to be taken into consideration too, although they are cheap and effective.



Shouldn't need to do much twisting so that may not matter.


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 28, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> Shouldn't need to do much twisting so that may not matter.




if its one of the newer versions with the sleeved tubing I don't think that's an issue anymore.

Just double check user reviews some tubing cracks really easy with any kind of bend which would be a really bad day.


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## John Naylor (Mar 28, 2020)

It's hard to find a 2 x 120mm AIO that beats the better air coolers.... even at 2200 rpm the best  120m copper radiator has max cooling capacity of 94 watts ... aluminum will not do as well.


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## moproblems99 (Mar 28, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> It's hard to find a 2 x 120mm AIO that beats the better air coolers.... even at 2200 rpm the best  120m copper radiator has max cooling capacity of 94 watts ... aluminum will not do as well.



You must not be reading the same reviews I am.  I am seeing 120 AIO stay pretty close or surpassing revered air coolers.  Also, if you didn't read the thread, I am not fitting any air coolers worth a damn in my mitx case.

@John Naylor , for example:


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## icase81 (Apr 23, 2020)

I'm a little bit late to this, but I'm building a similar setup. Check out the Thermaltake Core V1. Room for a 240mm rad in the front, PSU goes into a separate compartment on the bottom and comes with a 200mm fan in the front so you don't even technically have to put a fan on the rad (although you could put them on the inside and have a push/pull with the 200mm on the front pushing). It's got 2 80mm fans above the CPU too. And... its relatively cheap at about $60, but you can find it on sale. I got mine for $39.99 @ MicroCenter.


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## moproblems99 (May 25, 2020)

So I figured I would update this to let you know what has transpired.  I picked up a noctua lh12s and unfortunately the ram height spoiled the greatness of the fan underneath the heat sink.

In any case, the system is MUCH quieter, like actually Usable.  But, it still idles at like 52 and 2 minutes into cinebench, temps are at 92c.  So still not usable lol.

I am going to do a little more testing with the top and sides off and see what happens.  After that, shopping for a mini-itx case with a better layout but still small footprint.  Ideally, it would be able to fit a full-size gpu so that I can pick up a better card now and upgrade when the new gpus are out.


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## tabascosauz (May 25, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> So I figured I would update this to let you know what has transpired.  I picked up a noctua lh12s and unfortunately the ram height spoiled the greatness of the fan underneath the heat sink.
> 
> In any case, the system is MUCH quieter, like actually Usable.  But, it still idles at like 52 and 2 minutes into cinebench, temps are at 92c.  So still not usable lol.
> 
> I am going to do a little more testing with the top and sides off and see what happens.  After that, shopping for a mini-itx case with a better layout but still small footprint.  Ideally, it would be able to fit a full-size gpu so that I can pick up a better card now and upgrade when the new gpus are out.



Are you still running the 3700X stock? If the L12S is sandwiched under the PSU as it probably is in the Elite 120, it's going to get zero airflow. Combined with the fact that it can in some cases be weaker than even a D9L, I can see those load temperatures happening.

With PSU-over-board cases, you just can't get decent air cooling performance going. There isn't enough clearance. Something like the QBX, M1, or Cerberus would be much, much more suited to air coolers.

The Thermaltake Core (aka ripoff caselabs) latout also lends itself to upright air coolers.


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## Athlonite (May 25, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> In any case, the system is MUCH quieter, like actually Usable. But, it still idles at like 52 and 2 minutes into cinebench, temps are at 92c. So still not usable lol.



Yeah without a LOT of air movement in that case you're never going to see good temps using air coolers on an 3700X even at stock all core speeds it's no longer an 65W tdp it's more like 85W if you want to control temps better you're going to have to go water or start controlling the CPU better by not allowing it to auto OC and keeping the voltages lower


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## Caring1 (May 25, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> So I figured I would update this to let you know what has transpired.  I picked up a noctua lh12s and unfortunately the ram height spoiled the greatness of the fan underneath the heat sink.
> 
> In any case, the system is MUCH quieter, like actually Usable.  But, it still idles at like 52 and 2 minutes into cinebench, temps are at 92c.  So still not usable lol.
> 
> I am going to do a little more testing with the top and sides off and see what happens.  After that, shopping for a mini-itx case with a better layout but still small footprint.  Ideally, it would be able to fit a full-size gpu so that I can pick up a better card now and upgrade when the new gpus are out.


Invert the fans on the cooler so they push air up and away from the cooler, if the PSU is directly above, use that as an extra exhaust fan.


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## moproblems99 (May 25, 2020)

Luckily I have a sff PSU so 80% of the cooler is unobstructed.  Going to return the cooler as it doesn't fit with the fan on the bottom.  Seriously considering the inwin a1.  But, the price lol


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## tabascosauz (May 25, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> Luckily I have a sff PSU so 80% of the cooler is unobstructed.  Going to return the cooler as it doesn't fit with the fan on the bottom.  Seriously considering the inwin a1.  But, the price lol



Welcome to the wonderful world of SFF. Everything costs twice as much as it should haha.

The nice thing about the A1 is that you no longer have to stick to the usual top down or 92mm tower suspects, it'll allow you to use the usual heavyweights like the U12S, U12A, D15S and U14S. Which will be more than enough to comfortably cool the 3700X.


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## moproblems99 (May 25, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Welcome to the wonderful world of SFF. Everything costs twice as much as it should haha.
> 
> The nice thing about the A1 is that you no longer have to stick to the usual top down or 92mm tower suspects, it'll allow you to use the usual heavyweights like the U12S, U12A, D15S and U14S. Which will be more than enough to comfortably cool the 3700X.



The main reason I am considering the A1 is that the 450w psu is the max I'd be comfy leaving in there if it ends up carrying a 5700XT or higher.

Just ran cb20 on it with totally untweaked bios and ram with the case off 4584/485 @ 86C.  Now thinking if I'll do a 120mm aio or diff case + something like u12s.  The different case appeals for bigger GPUs.


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## tabascosauz (May 25, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> The main reason I am considering the A1 is that the 450w psu is the max I'd be comfy leaving in there if it ends up carrying a 5700XT or higher.
> 
> Just ran cb20 on it with totally untweaked bios and ram with the case off 4584/485 @ 86C.  Now thinking if I'll do a 120mm aio or diff case + something like u12s.  The different case appeals for bigger GPUs.



Completely stock or 4GHz? Single-core is a bit low for stock, but the multi score is understandable given it's above the 80C mark.

The layout is thoughtful for sure, but I can tell building in the A1 is going to involve a lot of discomfort, injuries and/or cursing. I get that they wanted it to turn heads, but any small-ish ITX that doesn't have any removable panels aside from the side panel for access to the innards is going to be a pain. The U12S fin stack is quite narrow, so probably fares better than the U12A or D15S if you ever need to get to that elusive clear CMOS jumper.

One guy retrofitted an EVGA SFX in the A1, but said that it required some creative power cord routing and the Corsair SFs probably won't work. There is a A1 Plus version with a 600W Gold PSU, but then we're really getting into boujee pricing territory. I'm not sure the A1 and its construction belongs there.


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## John Naylor (May 25, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> You must not be reading the same reviews I am.  I am seeing 120 AIO stay pretty close or surpassing revered air coolers.  Also, if you didn't read the thread, I am not fitting any air coolers worth a damn in my mitx case.



1.  I don't see any "reference" coolers on that list ... Scythe Fuma / Fuma 2 / Mugen Max all match or beat the Noc D15 (no S)
2.  Performance includes cooling AND noise



			https://tpucdn.com/review/scythe-fuma-2-dual-tower-cpu-cooler/images/temp_oc_aida64.png
		



			https://tpucdn.com/review/scythe-fuma-2-dual-tower-cpu-cooler/images/fan_noise_100.png
		


Who matches the Fuma 2 w/o breaking 40 dbA ?   

Corsair 150i Pro has same cooling .... 3dbA Louder
Corsair 100i Pro wind by 1C ... 13 dbA Louder ... dude, that's *2.5 times louder*
Corsair 115i Pro wins by 2C ... 10 dbA Louder ...  *that's 2.0 times louder*

I' want  30 foot cables to put the case in next room

And all of those come in with a free science experiment on galvanic corrosion

As to the case, as others have said, that case and "performance" are mutually exclusive

Switech used to have an all in one H120 but was discontinued for lack of sales.    You could by the kit still but its over $250:

Part Number: H2O-BOREAS   
Configuration:  RAD120-X050-BARB-BLACK-EX                         
Radiator Size: Single 120mm w/ 1x Helix 120 IRIS fan
Reservoir Size: Maelstrom D5 V2 50mm
Fittings type: Barb Fittings and Clamps
Reservoir Trim Anodizing Color: Black


Thee are 1 x 120mm AIOs like the Silverstone, but again..... much louder and a bit hotter than much cheaper air coolers



			https://tpucdn.com/review/silverstone-tundra-td03-lite/images/cpu_oc_typical_b.gif
		



			https://tpucdn.com/review/silverstone-tundra-td03-lite/images/fan_noise100.gif
		


Might wanna look at the Shiriken 2









						Scythe Shuriken 2 Review - Small Package, Big Performance
					

Scythe looks to up their game in the low-profile CPU cooler market with the Shuriken 2. Like its larger siblings, this ultra-compact cooler delivers exceptional performance for its size with no excess noise because of a well-designed slim 92 mm fan.




					www.techpowerup.com
				



"Scythe really did a phenomenal job on the Shuriken 2 as this ultra-compact cooler manages to just barely edge out both the Cryorig C7 and C7 Cu along with the SilverStone AR11. While its margin of victory is so minimal I would consider it within margin of the error, it still held a slight lead of about 1°C. Even so, it managed that level of performance while being 4–5 dBA quieter. In terms of performance and noise levels, the other Mini-ITX coolers just cannot compete. The Shuriken 2 is, without a doubt, one of the best-performing coolers of this size. "

You could pick one of the remote radiator systems but a 120 doesn't cost much less than a 360

Tho , if you want a performance oriented build, you could start w/ a performance oriented ITX case like the black / red Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ITX Tempered Glass and put just about anything you wanted in it .

Max GPU Length Allowance= 330 mm
Max CPU Cooler Height Allowance = 200 mm
Max PSU Length = 200 mm 

Fan Options
Front: 2 x 120mm fan or 2 x 140mm fan
Top: 2 x 120mm fan or 2 x 140mm fan
Rear: 1 x 120mm fan or 1 x 140mm fan (1 x 140mm fan included)

Radiator Options:
Front - Up to 240mm/280mm
Rear - Up to 120mm/140mm 
Top - Up to 240mm/280mm


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## tabascosauz (May 25, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> -snip-



You might want to read the thread first. This is an Elite 110, not an ATX test bench.

The Shuriken 2 is not ground-breaking. The L9x65 has already been around for years, and Noctua wasn't the first one to come up with the idea either. The 65mm fat-top-down-heatsink design is literally what inspired the Wraith Prism; it gets glowing reviews because it's incredibly hungry for fresh air, and all the regular cooling reviewers test it on an open test bench or an ATX case. If you were an actual SFF builder, you would understand that such a cooler behaves very freaking differently when it has no direct airflow and 5mm of clearance to the PSU hovering directly over it. All ambitions of avoiding thermal throttling like the testbench reviews clearly demonstrate go straight down the toilet in a case like the Elite 110 or SG05.

The Cryorig C7 is not a benchmark for great performance.


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## moproblems99 (May 25, 2020)

Additionally, this started as build with stuff I had laying around, not things that are the best


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## kapone32 (May 25, 2020)

I found a Corsair H50 sitting in a bin in the basement the other day.


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## cucker tarlson (May 25, 2020)

liquid freezer 2?
it's very good value but mind you it's a much thicker radiator
63mm total height


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## thebluebumblebee (May 25, 2020)

It looks like the PSU can be mounted with the fan up, drawing air from the top of the case, or down, drawing air from above the motherboard.  I would be inclined to do the latter and use a cooler like the Noctua NH-L9a, (just an example ) and mount the cooler's fan up side down, blowing towards the PSU.


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## moproblems99 (May 25, 2020)

thebluebumblebee said:


> It looks like the PSU can be mounted with the fan up, drawing air from the top of the case, or down, drawing air from above the motherboard.  I would be inclined to do the latter and use a cooler like the Noctua NH-L9a, (just an example ) and mount the cooler's fan up side down, blowing towards the PSU.



I am actually trying it in all the configurations.  Right now I have it with fan blowing down on the board and PSU pulling air from the top.  I think I just have to bite the bullet and buy a new case.  Even if I get the 3700x stabilized with aio, I still have to deal with tiny gpu restrictions and temps with that.

Leaning on the h200/210 right now as it seems to have a good combo of size and decent flow.  The big kicker in all this that I want a plain looking case like that or the Nano S.


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## moproblems99 (Jul 7, 2020)

Alright, so probably the last update besides pics.  I ended up getting the InWin A1 Plus and a Tt Performer 3.0 120mm AiO.  The Tt was not my first choice of cooler but the local shop had an inventory error on the one I was going to get but it seems to perform just fine.  I really like the A1 and honestly, I have thought about selling my 3900X/Tower 900 build and just keeping this.  Build as follows:

3700X
Gigabyte Aorus Pro Wifi B450
Spare ROG Strix RX 580 (Hoping to get my Gaming X 580 working)
Spare SATA3 SSDs
32GB Oloy 3200 CL16 (working on clocking soon)
Tt Performer 120MM AiO

Running Cinebench real quick gave a 4734 score with max temp at 76C with a 28C ambient.  Case is pretty quiet, probably quieter than my Tower 900.


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## Vya Domus (Jul 7, 2020)

The fan on that Tt Performer 3.0 is horrendously loud and not that great for a radiator it's basically a high CFM with pretty poor static pressure, I suggest you change it to something like an Artic P12/P120 or even go push-pull if you have room.


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## moproblems99 (Jul 7, 2020)

Vya Domus said:


> The fan on that Tt Performer 3.0 is horrendously loud and not that great for a radiator it's basically a high CFM with pretty poor static pressure, I suggest you change it to something like an Artic P12/P120 or even go push-pull if you have room.



I actually used the included InWin Sirius Loop fan in push.  That fan had shit written all over it and went to the emergency/spares bin.


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