# LGA 1700 upgrade advice please



## GamingLove (Nov 8, 2021)

Hi all,

I wolud like to upgrade my PC. I currently have an Core i7 8700 3.20Ghz, 16 GB 2600 Mhz RAM, and a Nvidia RTX 2070. All of this is currently working on an HP motherboard.
I saw some CPU reviews and it seems that the new Core i7 12700K is really powerfull for that price tag. So this are the parts i was thinking about:

CPU, Core i7 12700k
MB, MSI MAG Z690 TomahawkWiFi DDR4, or Gigabyte Aorus Elite DDR4
RAM, 32 GB G.Skill Tridenz Z 3600Mhz
HD, Samsung 980 Pro NVMe M.2
CPU cooler, my Bequiet! Dark Rock Pro 4, with LGA 1700 adapter kit
GPU, my Nvidia RTX 2070

I won't overclock anything and I will play on a Samsung curved screen at 3840x2160 resolution (my screen is not native 4k)
It would be nice to upgrade the GPU to a RTX 3070Ti but prices are out of this world at the moment.
Originally I was thinking about a Core i9 10850K upgrade, always with MSI or Gigabyte MB, but the price of the Core i7 12700K is really close to the Corei9, but the Core i7 seems to run really much faster.

So I'm asking you if you colud please tell my what do yout think about this upgrade. Is the new Core i7 12700K really worth the upgrade, or I should stick with the core i9 one?

Thank you all


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## Why_Me (Nov 8, 2021)

GamingLove said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I wolud like to upgrade my PC. I currently have an Core i7 8700 3.20Ghz, 16 GB 2600 Mhz RAM, and a Nvidia RTX 2070. All of this is currently working on an HP motherboard.
> I saw some CPU reviews and it seems that the new Core i7 12700K is really powerfull for that price tag. So this are the parts i was thinking about:
> ...


If this is primarily for gaming then I'd even have a look at the i5 12600KF but all in all your build looks good.


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## GamingLove (Nov 8, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> If this is primarily for gaming then I'd even have a look at the i5 12600KF but all in all your build looks good.


Hi,

thanks for the reply. Yes I forgot to say that is a gaming upgrade.
Ok, I will read some i5 12600 reviews...but francly I dont really understand CPU benchmarks. 
Do you think that the CPU cooler will work even if the contact surface ahs not exactly the shape of the CPU?

Thanks again


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## The red spirit (Nov 8, 2021)

Don't upgrade, you will not gain much in gaming from that. Better save up for more powerful GPU if you want to see any gains. And frankly just don't buy anything, your stuff is not that old and still plenty capable. For less than 4K gaming, you are loaded.


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## dgianstefani (Nov 8, 2021)

6 core 8700k starting to show it's age.

I would definitely recommend sticking with the 12700, 8 physical power cores are good to have.


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## QuietBob (Nov 8, 2021)

If your target is 4K gaming, a CPU upgrade will only bring marginal benefits. At this resolution you're primarily limited by your graphics card. A GPU upgrade would be a much more sensible investment. 
You'd want at least a 3060Ti or a 6700XT for smooth gameplay in current titles, without having to sacrifice visual quality. See how your RTX2070 performs:


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## phanbuey (Nov 8, 2021)

Do not upgrade CPUs with that GPU.
You're not going to see a difference.

Sell that HP for $1000+ and grab something like:

ASUS ROG Strix GA15 Gaming Desktop PC, AMD Ryzen 5 5600X, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070, 16GB DDR4 RAM, 512GB SSD, Wi-Fi 6, Windows 10 Home, GA15DK-DB574 - Newegg.com

The net amount of money will be less/about the same and your performance will be much better than if you spent the $650-$900 (chip + mobo + ram?) going to a 12700K from your current platform.


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## The red spirit (Nov 9, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> 6 core 8700k starting to show it's age.


lol where? Name a single game that suffers from 6 core chip.


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 9, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> lol where? Name a single game that suffers from 6 core chip.


The 5600X was bottlenecking my graphics card in Cyberpunk @ 1440p max settings + RT. The cores were plenty fast but there weren't enough of them. All 6 bouncing between 90-100%.

Yes, this is an extreme example and not at all applicable in OP's case, but it does exist.


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## The red spirit (Nov 9, 2021)

rares495 said:


> The 5600X was bottlenecking my graphics card in Cyberpunk @ 1440p max settings + RT. The cores were plenty fast but there weren't enough of them. All 6 bouncing between 90-100%.
> 
> Yes, this is an extreme example and not at all applicable in OP's case, but it does exist.


Oh well, I thought that 4C/8T Skylake was perfectly enough for gaming and 6C/12T Skylake was simply excessive, but covers some performance loss of 4C/8T chips. Anyway, 6C/12T Skylake and all its derivatives is still very capable and the only upgrade could be Alder lake i5, but with very diminishing returns purely in gaming. Unlike you with overclocked RTX 3090, OP has RTX 2070. A decent and fast card, but obviously not as high end. Unless OP plays at very low settings or tons of strategies, I don't feel that CPU upgrade is worth it.


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 9, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> Unlike you with overclocked RTX 3090, OP has RTX 2070. A decent and fast card, but obviously not as high end. Unless OP plays at very low settings or tons of strategies, I don't feel that CPU upgrade is worth it.


Definitely. I agree with you on this.


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## GorbazTheDragon (Nov 9, 2021)

Alder Lake is basically a beta platform at the moment, almost like launch Zen 1. Unless you enjoy fiddling around troubleshooting why stuff doesn't work as intended I don't see the point in upgrading, especially considering you have a plenty competent CPU already, especially for the GPU...


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## FireFox (Nov 9, 2021)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> Alder Lake is basically a beta platform at the moment,


That's exactly why i will upgrade but not this year.


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## GamingLove (Nov 9, 2021)

Thanks you all for your replies.

Don't get me wrong...my PC is quite power enough for the games I play at that resolution...and since my screen does not support 4k gaming I'm quite happy with it. But I recently runa the Assassin's Creed ingame benchmark and I had a mean of 51 fps per second. Maybe it means nothing (as I said i dont't really understand all benchamarks reviews), but when I play I see that the game isn't quite smooth.

So that's why I was thinking about an upgrade. The question was if to spend for a CPU upgrade or for a GPU one. For the same price of the parts I listed, I can buy a RTX 3070Ti which cost 1200$ or more here.
But then I think that a more powerfull GPU have to be supported by a good CPU (but even in this case I could be wrong).

So this is why I asked you for some advice.


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## looniam (Nov 9, 2021)

GamingLove said:


> Thanks you all for your replies.
> 
> Don't get me wrong...my PC is quite power enough for the games I play at that resolution...and since my screen does not support 4k gaming I'm quite happy with it. But I recently runa the Assassin's Creed ingame benchmark and I had a mean of 51 fps per second. Maybe it means nothing (as I said i dont't really understand all benchamarks reviews), but when I play I see that the game isn't quite smooth.
> 
> ...


if that 51 fps is 1440p then you're ahead if 1080p then you're ~15% behind








						Assassin's Creed Valhalla Benchmark Test & Performance Analysis
					

Assassin's Creed Valhalla has the most impressive graphics we've seen in a long time. The vast open world of Northern Europe has never looked better. We review the game's performance on 18 graphics cards, including the full Ampere lineup, at three resolutions, up to 4K.




					www.techpowerup.com
				




pretty sure that 2600 ram you have plays a part. whats the core usage? if its not slammed to 80%+all cores constantly - look somewhere else.


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## phanbuey (Nov 9, 2021)

GamingLove said:


> Thanks you all for your replies.
> 
> Don't get me wrong...my PC is quite power enough for the games I play at that resolution...and since my screen does not support 4k gaming I'm quite happy with it. But I recently runa the Assassin's Creed ingame benchmark and I had a mean of 51 fps per second. Maybe it means nothing (as I said i dont't really understand all benchamarks reviews), but when I play I see that the game isn't quite smooth.
> 
> ...



Right now your system is fairly balanced, and probably under-performing because it isn't tuned/tweaked.   If you're going to spend $1200 you're better off selling that system and buying a new one.

Additionally -- you if have an HP - which means your motherboard and PSU are not the greatest and your case is actually dangerously underventilated, it might not be worth carrying components or software forward or to stick a $1200 card in that oven.

Sell that rig for $800 and use $2000 to buy a better platform with the GPU that you want.

In the meantime, uninstall all of the bloatware, set your windows power plan to 'max performance' and pop the side panels off that case and run it open -  your 51 fps will turn into 65 like magic.


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## Valantar (Nov 9, 2021)

Upgrading your cpu is quite unlikely to improve your gaming performance significantly. I really wouldn't spend that much money if you have a 8700 - even the non-K version that doesn't boost as high should last you quite a few years still. Save your money and get a faster GPU instead.

Also: adjust your graphics settings, I don't know if this is what you're doing, but don't play at Ultra. Playing at ultra is stupid, wasteful, and a bad idea. There are _always_ graphics settings you can lower with zero perceptible difference in image quality. Look up performance reviews of games you're playing, as they'll often have tips for the most "expensive" (in performance)/least visibly impactful settings that you can lower for higher framerates.

Also, you say you will play at 2160p but note that this is not the native resolution of your screen. What is its native resolution? Are you planning to buy a new monitor? If you're just planning to use some sort of supersampling, that's generally something you only do if you have tons of performance to spare. 2160p gaming is incredibly expensive in terms of performance, and only really recommended for the highest end of GPUs - 1440p typically looks very close to the same at the same monitor size. And if your native resolution is lower than 2160p, the gains from running supersampling are quite minimal. Just crank your AA instead.


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## GamingLove (Nov 9, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> Right now your system is fairly balanced, and probably under-performing because it isn't tuned/tweaked.   If you're going to spend $1200 you're better off selling that system and buying a new one.
> 
> Additionally -- you if have an HP - which means your motherboard and PSU are not the greatest and your case is actually dangerously underventilated, it might not be worth carrying components or software forward or to stick a $1200 card in that oven.
> 
> ...


I already made an upgrade. My PC was originally an HP gaming rig. I have upgraded the case, which now is a Fractal midi tower, the PSU with a Bequiet! straight power 850W gold, the CPU cooler with a Bequiet! Dark Rock Pro4, and three 120mm silent fans. The only thing i have kept is the MB which I could upgrade with an MSI Z390-A PRO for example and the GPU. So the only upgrade I can choose is either a CPU or a GPU one.


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## phanbuey (Nov 9, 2021)

GamingLove said:


> I already made an upgrade. My PC was originally an HP gaming rig. I have upgraded the case, which now is a Fractal midi tower, the PSU with a Bequiet! straight power 850W gold, the CPU cooler with a Bequiet! Dark Rock Pro4, and three 120mm silent fans. The only thing i have kept is the MB which I could upgrade with an MSI Z390-A PRO for example and the GPU. So the only upgrade I can choose is either a CPU or a GPU one.



Gotcha -- in that case a GPU and some tweaking of the ram and CPU is the best $/fps investment.


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## GamingLove (Nov 9, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Upgrading your cpu is quite unlikely to improve your gaming performance significantly. I really wouldn't spend that much money if you have a 8700 - even the non-K version that doesn't boost as high should last you quite a few years still. Save your money and get a faster GPU instead.
> 
> Also: adjust your graphics settings, I don't know if this is what you're doing, but don't play at Ultra. Playing at ultra is stupid, wasteful, and a bad idea. There are _always_ graphics settings you can lower with zero perceptible difference in image quality. Look up performance reviews of games you're playing, as they'll often have tips for the most "expensive" (in performance)/least visibly impactful settings that you can lower for higher framerates.
> 
> Also, you say you will play at 2160p but note that this is not the native resolution of your screen. What is its native resolution? Are you planning to buy a new monitor? If you're just planning to use some sort of supersampling, that's generally something you only do if you have tons of performance to spare. 2160p gaming is incredibly expensive in terms of performance, and only really recommended for the highest end of GPUs - 1440p typically looks very close to the same at the same monitor size. And if your native resolution is lower than 2160p, the gains from running supersampling are quite minimal. Just crank your AA instead.


Well, i really don't know what's the native resolution of my screen. It's a Samsung orizontal curved one, and I always play with 3840x2160 resolution, even if Windows recomends a 2560x1440 resolution in system settings. I don't need a new screen because this one is really good for gaming in my opinion even if there if far better on the market.
As for gaming graphics settings I always select the ultra settings just because it's simple to do...yeah sure it's not the right approach but it works.
But i will read some performace reviews to find some tweeks.



phanbuey said:


> Gotcha -- in that case a GPU and some tweaking of the ram and CPU is the best $/fps investment.


Thanks againg for your help. I could upgrade the GPU with a Zotac RTX 3070 Ti for example. For RAM and CPU tweaking...which i suppose is overclocking, I should get a better MB (even if there is not much to choose from for an LGA 1151)?
And beside this...well...I really don't know how to tweak CPU and RAM...I have read some overclock guides and so on, but never tried on my PC. So I'm not quite sure if it would be safe to try it out.


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## Why_Me (Nov 9, 2021)

Another option is to wait until January for the release of the i5 12400F / i7 12700F which can be paired up with the new B660 boards and DDR4 3200mhz RAM.









						Best buy incoming: sub-US$200 Intel Core i5-12400F beats the Ryzen 5 5600X
					

For now, the i5-12600K is the value king, but, if you can wait for the i5-12400F releasing in two months, you could get roughly the same performance for sub-US$200.




					www.notebookcheck.net
				




be quiet! LGA 1700 mounting kits.









						be quiet!
					

be quiet!




					www.bequiet.com


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## Valantar (Nov 9, 2021)

GamingLove said:


> Well, i really don't know what's the native resolution of my screen. It's a Samsung orizontal curved one, and I always play with 3840x2160 resolution, even if Windows recomends a 2560x1440 resolution in system settings. I don't need a new screen because this one is really good for gaming in my opinion even if there if far better on the market.
> As for gaming graphics settings I always select the ultra settings just because it's simple to do...yeah sure it's not the right approach but it works.
> But i will read some performace reviews to find some tweeks.


If Windows recommends 2560x1440, then that is 99.9% likely the native resolution of your screen, and due to how LCD displays work (with fixed size pixels, unlike something like a CRT) your 2160p gaming is not likely to look any sharper than native 1440p - it might even look worse.

But to be sure: google the model number of your screen. You'll find it in the OSD or on the sticker on the back of it.

Other than that: there is absolutely no reason to play at 2160p unless your panel is that resolution natively. Seriously, please save yourself the completely unnecessary performance loss and switch to 1440p. Your GPU will last longer, your setup will work better, your display will likely look sharper (as you're not relying on a scaling algorithm squeezing 1,5 pixels into each pixel on your display, whether that algorithm lives in your GPU or the monitor), you'll consume less power if you're hitting vsync, and you can stop worrying about upgrades you don't need. And I certainly am not recommending you upgrade your monitor either - it's likely plenty good.

The best upgrade for any gaming setup that isn't clearly and obviously bottlenecked elsewhere is always the GPU. As the GPU market is absolutely insane and you already have a 2070 - which is an _awesome_ GPU - put the money aside for later and enjoy your current setup. Then, in a couple of years when things have hopefully normalized a bit more, you can hopefully upgrade both your GPU, CPU, motherboard, and RAM - but even then you might not need the CPU upgrade quite yet, depending on how demanding games are by then. Just do yourself a favor and stop fooling yourself into thinking rendering at 2160p is somehow beneficial to you - it isn't. As I said, supersampling - i.e. rendering at a higher resolution and then downscaling the image - has _very_ dubious benefits compared to other AA methods and has a massive performance cost. And depending on the scaling algorithm, it might look like complete garbage (if it's your GPU doing the downscaling you're likely fine, if it's your monitor, native resolution likely looks much, much better). Native resolution with decent AA might have slightly more jaggies, but supersampling will always look a bit soft in the details. The PC hardware scene loves to push us into thinking an upgrade will always make everything better, but really, the best thing you can do for your own gaming experience is to play and enjoy your games (though preferably at native resolution) until you're not able to any more. _Then_ it is time to upgrade.



GamingLove said:


> Thanks againg for your help. I could upgrade the GPU with a Zotac RTX 3070 Ti for example. For RAM and CPU tweaking...which i suppose is overclocking, I should get a better MB (even if there is not much to choose from for an LGA 1151)?
> And beside this...well...I really don't know how to tweak CPU and RAM...I have read some overclock guides and so on, but never tried on my PC. So I'm not quite sure if it would be safe to try it out.


A motherboard upgrade is extremely unlikely to net you any noticeable performance benefits - a few percent from faster RAM at best. Not worth the expenditure. A GPU upgrade is the most sensible thing, but again, as long as you're running supersampled you're just crippling your performance for no good reason. You'll get the same upgrade just from playing at native resolution. I understand the upgrade itch, but it's well worth resisting. It sounds like you've spent enough upgrading this PC already. Let it be for a while and enjoy it 

One more thing to remember: game tests in CPU reviews are always run with a high-end GPU to alleviate the GPU bottleneck as much as possible in order to best demonstrate CPU performance differences - if they used a slower GPU, all the CPUs would look essentially the same. Yet even taking that into consideration there is a 5% max difference between the best and worst CPUs at 2160p in TPU's 12900K review.




5%. That is not noticeable unless you're looking at an FPS counter. And that includes a 10400F, which is slower than your current CPU.

At lower resolutions, where the GPU bottleneck is less apparent, the differences are bigger, but even at 1440p the difference is <15% - barely noticeable at worst, and not at all if you're hitting decent framerates.




So, while it's possible that your HP motherboard and 2600 RAM are holding you back ever so slightly, a CPU upgrade is extremely unlikely to noticeably change your gaming experience.


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## looniam (Nov 9, 2021)

imho, as long as you keep that HP motherboard (H370 chipset w/locked down bios!) and 2666 RAM (which is the fastest for that locked down bios!) any cpu upgrade will be a waste of money. any Z370 mobo will have enough vrms to handle that non K i7. you might gain a bit tweaking the boost clocks (enabling MCE or whatnot) and get the fastest RAM for that platform - it would be almost like getting a new cpu. at least i thought so going from a H67to Z77 w/i5-2400 years ago.

but do it cheap considering the age of the chip; 3 gens old now.


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## Valantar (Nov 9, 2021)

looniam said:


> imho, as long as you keep that HP motherboard (H370 chipset w/locked down bios!) and 2666 RAM (which is the fastest for that locked down bios!) any cpu upgrade will be a waste of money. any Z370 mobo will have enough vrms to handle that non K i7. you might gain a bit tweaking the boost clocks (enabling MCE or whatnot) and get the fastest RAM for that platform - it would be almost like getting a new cpu. at least i thought so going from a H67to Z77 w/i5-2400 years ago.
> 
> but do it cheap considering the age of the chip; 3 gens old now.


It's still likely to cost quite a few hundred dollars for a few percent improvement in games at best, and their current OEM parts have minimal resale value. Not recommended imo.


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## GamingLove (Nov 9, 2021)

Valantar said:


> If Windows recommends 2560x1440, then that is 99.9% likely the native resolution of your screen, and due to how LCD displays work (with fixed size pixels, unlike something like a CRT) your 2160p gaming is not likely to look any sharper than native 1440p - it might even look worse.
> 
> But to be sure: google the model number of your screen. You'll find it in the OSD or on the sticker on the back of it.
> 
> ...


Thanks again. This is an really nice, informative and kind answer. I understood i little bit more about gaming setting. As you explained probably I'm pushing the GPU and my screen to a non native resolution without any benefits...well actually with negative impacts on the gaming experience. I have always though that the higher the resolution the better the game will look, so I always used this setting with default ingame "ultra" options. It's is really tempting to upgrade the GPU, but as you said, at the moment GPU prices are really out of this galaxy. Thanks to your answer I will try to play with the native screen resolution and doing some game settings tweeks. Can't say that I wont upgrade anything but probably thanks to your post I will wait for the GPU one till prices will lower at a normal level.


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## looniam (Nov 9, 2021)

Valantar said:


> It's still likely to cost quite a few hundred dollars for a few percent improvement in games at best, and their current OEM parts have minimal resale value. Not recommended imo.


i did say cheap. there are plenty decent used Z390 board on ebay for $100- $150. and btw, i never consider resale value nor would i ever recommend someone rely on it.
i either use it for a back up or give away to friends. except junk PSUs - i give those to people i don't like.

though again i have real world experience moving to a better chipset - i can tell you it DOES make an appreciable difference. just compare gaming benchmarks for 2666 to 3200 or 3600 ram; _going w/default intel specs are always the worst._


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## GamingLove (Nov 10, 2021)

Just a last question please. Suppose I upgrade to an LGA 1700 CPU and a Z690 DDR4 MB: will I be able to play games on window10 or I will have to upgrade to win11? 
I don't want to upgrade the OS if actual games do not yet support it.

Thanks again guys


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## Valantar (Nov 10, 2021)

GamingLove said:


> Thanks again. This is an really nice, informative and kind answer. I understood i little bit more about gaming setting. As you explained probably I'm pushing the GPU and my screen to a non native resolution without any benefits...well actually with negative impacts on the gaming experience. I have always though that the higher the resolution the better the game will look, so I always used this setting with default ingame "ultra" options. It's is really tempting to upgrade the GPU, but as you said, at the moment GPU prices are really out of this galaxy. Thanks to your answer I will try to play with the native screen resolution and doing some game settings tweeks. Can't say that I wont upgrade anything but probably thanks to your post I will wait for the GPU one till prices will lower at a normal level.


No problem  You're theoretically right about resolution, but only up to the point where you hit the native resolution of your monitor, as anything above (or below) that will not map 1:1 to its pixels and will therefore look worse. In essence there are two factors that make "more resolution=better" less true: supersampling (whether that's a monitor that accepts an input resolution higher than its native resolution or a GPU that downscales before outputting the image), and diminishing returns as resolutions increase. 

At the same screen size - let's say 27" - the difference between 720p and 1080p will be huge, the difference between 1080p and 1440p will be significant still, and the difference between 1440p and 2160p will be ... likely noticeable, but nowhere near the previous changes. (There are also several other factors impacting this: the screen size (the smaller the screen the smaller the perceived increase in quality from a resolution increase), your viewing distance (the closer you are, the more perceived improvement), the pixel response of the monitor (if it has slow response time you'll lose motion resolution as images will blur and blend), and more.) There's also the fact that motion lowers perceived resolution - you'll always be able to make out more detail in a static image than a moving one, simply as you have more time to look. Higher resolutions are therefore also more important for desktop use than for gaming in particular (I could easily game on a 27" 1080p screen, but working on one would be _terrible_ due to the low pixel density and huge size of everything.)

 Supersampling overrides all of this though, as it will inherently be less sharp than native resolution (but might show more detail and have less jaggies). Best case scenario it looks slightly soft but more detailed, worst case scenario you lose those details because the downsampling blurs too much, ending up with a worse overall image. 

As I said, the main recommendation here is to
-set games to your native resolution
-if you're still struggling with performance, read a performance analysis review and look for tips for "cheap" settings reductions that give more performance without reducing quality (there are always some settings that are essentially imperceptible when reduced from Ultra but give noticeable performance improvements)
-use DLSS or DLAA if available (or FSR if the game has that) - though rendering at native resolution typically looks better than upscaling, even good upscaling like these
-enjoy your games 

When your PC can no longer sustain an enjoyable framerate in the games you play the most at native resolution (or with good upscaling), that's the best time to upgrade. And of course a bonus is that the longer you wait, the more of an improvement you'll get, making the upgrade all the more satisfying. If you end up upgrading something, don't worry about it - we've all made unnecessary upgrades. It happens. I would just make sure you don't go spending a lot of money on something that gets you very little in return. Your current PC might not be top of the line, but it's pretty good still, and the cost of going from "pretty good" to "great" can be _really_ high.



GamingLove said:


> Just a last question please. Suppose I upgrade to an LGA 1700 CPU and a Z690 DDR4 MB: will I be able to play games on window10 or I will have to upgrade to win11?
> I don't want to upgrade the OS if actual games do not yet support it.
> 
> Thanks again guys


AFAIK all W10 software should work in W11 - they are to a huge degree the same OS at the core. That being said, the scheduler updates designed for CPUs with several different types of cores makes it an obvious choice for LGA1700/Alder Lake. You can absolutely run Alder Lake under W10, but there is a much higher chance of bugs and unpredictable performance. But then you can also always upgrade from W10 to W11 if you have issues. Still, given the new nature of the core hardware of Alder Lake, I would personally go for W11.


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## GamingLove (Nov 10, 2021)

Valantar said:


> No problem  You're theoretically right about resolution, but only up to the point where you hit the native resolution of your monitor, as anything above (or below) that will not map 1:1 to its pixels and will therefore look worse. In essence there are two factors that make "more resolution=better" less true: supersampling (whether that's a monitor that accepts an input resolution higher than its native resolution or a GPU that downscales before outputting the image), and diminishing returns as resolutions increase.
> 
> At the same screen size - let's say 27" - the difference between 720p and 1080p will be huge, the difference between 1080p and 1440p will be significant still, and the difference between 1440p and 2160p will be ... likely noticeable, but nowhere near the previous changes. (There are also several other factors impacting this: the screen size (the smaller the screen the smaller the perceived increase in quality from a resolution increase), your viewing distance (the closer you are, the more perceived improvement), the pixel response of the monitor (if it has slow response time you'll lose motion resolution as images will blur and blend), and more.) There's also the fact that motion lowers perceived resolution - you'll always be able to make out more detail in a static image than a moving one, simply as you have more time to look. Higher resolutions are therefore also more important for desktop use than for gaming in particular (I could easily game on a 27" 1080p screen, but working on one would be _terrible_ due to the low pixel density and huge size of everything.)
> 
> ...


Many thanks again. Your answers are full of usefull informations and really helpfull. I think I have enough pros and cons now to get a better view of an eventual upgrade of my current PC. Following what you are saiyng I think I would stick with my actual hardware till it can run my favourites games without any problem. 
That said, it would be nice to upgrade the MB: not for overclocking or tweaking but just to have at least a second M2 slot for an additional SSD. I looked up for Z390 MB but they are all out of stock and discontinued...well I could just buy a SATA ssd and that will do the trick.

Thanks again for your help!


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## Valantar (Nov 10, 2021)

GamingLove said:


> Many thanks again. Your answers are full of usefull informations and really helpfull. I think I have enough pros and cons now to get a better view of an eventual upgrade of my current PC. Following what you are saiyng I think I would stick with my actual hardware till it can run my favourites games without any problem.
> That said, it would be nice to upgrade the MB: not for overclocking or tweaking but just to have at least a second M2 slot for an additional SSD. I looked up for Z390 MB but they are all out of stock and discontinued...well I could just buy a SATA ssd and that will do the trick.
> 
> Thanks again for your help!


Do you have any free PCIe slots on your motherboard? If so you might be able to add more m.2 drives with just cheap adapters (though the speed depends on your chipset and the motherboard layout). You don't by any chance have a link to the manual for the original HP PC? It should list the expansion slots and their speeds.


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## Mindweaver (Nov 18, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> Don't upgrade, you will not gain much in gaming from that. Better save up for more powerful GPU if you want to see any gains. And frankly just don't buy anything, your stuff is not that old and still plenty capable. For less than 4K gaming, you are loaded.


Where are these GPU's you speak of? lol Honestly, I'm thinking about upgrading my Ryzen R5 2600 to a AL i5 12600k and motherboard because I can upgrade it for way cheaper than upgrading my 2070 atm. If GPU prices were at MSRP I would agree with you 100% but right now I wouldn't buy a GPU unless I found a really good deal.


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## Valantar (Nov 18, 2021)

Mindweaver said:


> Where are these GPU's you speak of? lol Honestly, I'm thinking about upgrading my Ryzen R5 2600 to a AL i5 12600k and motherboard because I can upgrade it for way cheaper than upgrading my 2070 atm. If GPU prices were at MSRP I would agree with you 100% but right now I wouldn't buy a GPU unless I found a really good deal.


You're not wrong about the GPUs, but given that a CPU upgrade at best results in a quite small gaming performance increase, why bother? Is holding onto the money that hard? You'll likely get more for it at a later point, after all.


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 18, 2021)

Mindweaver said:


> Where are these GPU's you speak of? lol Honestly, I'm thinking about upgrading my Ryzen R5 2600 to a AL i5 12600k and motherboard because I can upgrade it for way cheaper than upgrading my 2070 atm. If GPU prices were at MSRP I would agree with you 100% but right now I wouldn't buy a GPU unless I found a really good deal.


Yeah, prices are crazy in 'muricaland right now. It's not as bad in Europe though. Here you can actually get 3080s for ~1500 EUR and 3080 Tis for ~1800 EUR. That's 1700 and 2050 in freedom money. Not THAT bad if you really need a card.


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## The red spirit (Nov 18, 2021)

Mindweaver said:


> Where are these GPU's you speak of? lol Honestly, I'm thinking about upgrading my Ryzen R5 2600 to a AL i5 12600k and motherboard because I can upgrade it for way cheaper than upgrading my 2070 atm. If GPU prices were at MSRP I would agree with you 100% but right now I wouldn't buy a GPU unless I found a really good deal.


You can pay to local retailers, obviously. Other than them, there can be decent local used cards. I have found RX 580 8GB for 180-200 EUR. Not great, but it's certainly usable and enjoyable at 1080p. I'm not sure about higher end market. It was always stupid and always very overpriced even before shortage, but eh local retailers and local used deals may exist. Sucks to buy a card now, but that's still better than pissing money down the drain on small CPU upgrades, which won't do much in gaming. I agree that I replied without much thought, but I still wouldn't upgrade CPU. If OP wanted to buy something, perhaps a bigger SSD? And if he really has that upgrade itch and doesn't give a damn about performance per dollar, well, I guess CPU upgrade is fine too. I'm myself just very value oriented and wouldn't buy high end parts myself. Despite that, I think that these times are really stale and unpleasant if you are into building computers. It feels like disruption is simply too big in the market and we may never see a time of hardware getting better and cheaper again anymore. Back then it felt like a winning a lottery to have a hardware that was cheap and lasted, but now there isn't the same appeal anymore. I feel that right now if you plan to buy anything for computer, you just worry that you may not have a cash anymore to afford anything later and getting something cheap feel like it may not be enough in the long run and you may end up stuck with something that didn't last and you will be out of money. And your only choice now is to either be out of money and end up with something that doesn't last or be just out of money.

I don't know what strategy will work out. Buying value stuff is nearly impossible today too. What used to be cheap, now are expensive. People bitched that they had to buy a 200 USD chip a while ago and now they think nothing of spending 400 USD. People bitched about 150-250 USD GPUs being somewhat expensive or uncompetitive (I still remember GTX 650 Ti vs Radeon HD 7770) and now buying anything at 600 USD is just totally normal and people are hyped to sometimes snatch something for 400 USD. That's 200 USD cheaper than in crazy market today, but that's still 200 USD more expensive than it should be. Low end market is nearly gone, the only parts in it are i3 10100F and GT 1030 GDDR5 and still some retailers try to screw you by inflating their prices. There's nothing from AMD that isn't permanently sold out, AMD also doesn't make RX 6500, nVidia doesn't deliver RTX 3050 and RTX 3050 Ti.

Game developers are still braindead and don't understand that in this crisis people are less capable of buying expensive hardware and are less willing to do so, so there hasn't been any noticeable push from them to develop games that run on lower end hardware. PC gaming might just be dying altogether. Devs have no problems getting mobile or console audience to play their games and both platforms are much more affordable than gaming computers. Sure, some of use are enthusiasts and even if our computers suck we will try to play games anyway, but how long devs are willing to invest into platform, which doesn't show positive perspectives? If you aren't hardcore PC gamer and don't have a strong allergy to consoles, a 300 USD Series S is just no brainer for casuals. For that cash, it's impossible to buy any respectable new graphics card, let alone a whole machine. You can only find i5 or i7 dell and 180-200 USD RX 570 tops. Even then it's just end of life i5 or i7 with just 4 cores and a card way past its prime. We may think that this will pass, but if we are in this shit for 5 years more, PC gaming might just die like that.

Sorry for a rant.



rares495 said:


> Yeah, prices are crazy in 'muricaland right now. It's not as bad in Europe though. Here you can actually get 3080s for ~1500 EUR and 3080 Tis for ~1800 EUR. That's 1700 and 2050 in freedom money. Not THAT bad if you really need a card.


How is that not bad? You are forgetting that average American makes way more cash than average Romanian. 1500 EUR is like 3 month wage without spending a leu. It's THAT bad if you need a card. It's absolutely ruinous to you if you need one. For Murican it's painful, but more like 60% of one wage. Average salary in Romania is just 675 EUR with minimum one being much lower than that. Median Murican salary is still 2800 USD per month, which after conversion is still 2465 EUR. USA's money hasn't devalued as much as media loves to hype it. Sure, it lost value, but by current exchange rates, it only lost like 10% in comparison to Euro. Anyway, you are still much worse off in Romania if you need a card, than in USA.

Pretty much anything past GT 1030 or GTX 1050 Ti is not just painful, but unaffordable in Romania. It's so ridiculous, that you may be better off financially with spending money on hookers every weekend. I bet it's cheaper than RTX 3080.


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## Mindweaver (Nov 18, 2021)

Valantar said:


> You're not wrong about the GPUs, but given that a CPU upgrade at best results in a quite small gaming performance increase, why bother? Is holding onto the money that hard? You'll likely get more for it at a later point, after all.


You are not wrong either, but who can explain the upgrade itch? lol


rares495 said:


> Yeah, prices are crazy in 'muricaland right now. It's not as bad in Europe though. Here you can actually get 3080s for ~1500 EUR and 3080 Tis for ~1800 EUR. That's 1700 and 2050 in freedom money. Not THAT bad if you really need a card.


I don't know man, that's still way higher than I'm willing to pay for a GPU. lol Also, let's chill out on the 'muricaland and freedom money comments. We are here to talk pcs not make offensive statements on users geographical location. 



The red spirit said:


> Spoiler: GREAT WALL OF TEXT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great wall of text you are lost upon me!... lol j/k I hear you. Also, let's drop the Murican talk.


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## Valantar (Nov 18, 2021)

Mindweaver said:


> You are not wrong either, but who can explain the upgrade itch? lol


That's true, but learning to resist it is healthy for both the mind and the wallet, so it's that's win-win


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## The red spirit (Nov 18, 2021)

Mindweaver said:


> You are not wrong either, but who can explain the upgrade itch? lol
> 
> I don't know man, that's still way higher than I'm willing to pay for a GPU. lol Also, let's chill out on the 'muricaland and freedom money comments. We are here to talk pcs not make offensive statements on users geographical location.
> 
> ...


But on serious note, I actually looked up the prices of hookers worldwide and it's 50 EUR/hour in Latvia or in Germany, also legal. For RTX 3080 money, you can have 30 sexy weekends in a year. That's a lot and not as expensive as I thought it would be. Might as well just do that, instead of getting RTX 3080.


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## Valantar (Nov 18, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> But on serious note, I actually looked up the prices of hookers worldwide and it's 50 EUR/hour in Latvia or in Germany, also legal. For RTX 3080 money, you can have 30 sexy weekends in a year. That's a lot and not as expensive as I thought it would be. Might as well just do that, instead of getting RTX 3080.


I don't know about you, but I don't think "sexy" is the right word for the sexusl exploitation of likely trafficking victims and people so trapped by their socioeconomic situation they are effectively slaves. But hey, to each their own.

I think I said this in some other thread here recently: these forums need a puke emoji.


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## Mindweaver (Nov 18, 2021)

Let's stay on topic and drop the other talk.


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## The red spirit (Nov 19, 2021)

Valantar said:


> I don't know about you, but I don't think "sexy" is the right word for the sexusl exploitation of likely trafficking victims and people so trapped by their socioeconomic situation they are effectively slaves. But hey, to each their own.
> 
> I think I said this in some other thread here recently: these forums need a puke emoji.


I didn't know that, but then again it's still likely that not all of them are like that. Anyway, still 1500 EUR is not a reasonable price for even RTX 3080. You buy a lot of other entertaining things or services for that. I could likely go on 2 week vacation, dine in restaurants and every day go to water park. Even after that, still have some left. It's also possible to do a renovation of whole bathroom and may just be enough to start a small business. Either way, I feel that spending 1500 EUR on GPU is pissing money down the drain. It's a legit life enhancing sum of cash. It might not seem like a lot, but it really is, if you don't have to spend it.


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 19, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> How is that not bad? You are forgetting that average American makes way more cash than average Romanian. 1500 EUR is like 3 month wage without spending a leu. It's THAT bad if you need a card. It's absolutely ruinous to you if you need one. For Murican it's painful, but more like 60% of one wage. Average salary in Romania is just 675 EUR with minimum one being much lower than that. Median Murican salary is still 2800 USD per month, which after conversion is still 2465 EUR. USA's money hasn't devalued as much as media loves to hype it. Sure, it lost value, but by current exchange rates, it only lost like 10% in comparison to Euro. Anyway, you are still much worse off in Romania if you need a card, than in USA.
> 
> Pretty much anything past GT 1030 or GTX 1050 Ti is not just painful, but unaffordable in Romania. It's so ridiculous, that you may be better off financially with spending money on hookers every weekend. I bet it's cheaper than RTX 3080.


I said Europe, not Romania. Yes, it's bad, but nothing a bit of credit can't fix. It's usually not smart to take loans for PC components but that is absolutely an option in this GPU market.



Mindweaver said:


> I don't know man, that's still way higher than I'm willing to pay for a GPU. lol Also, let's chill out on the 'muricaland and freedom money comments. We are here to talk pcs not make offensive statements on users geographical location.


Aye aye, Cap'n Crunch. Just a bit of banter, that's all.


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## The red spirit (Nov 19, 2021)

rares495 said:


> I said Europe, not Romania. Yes, it's bad, but nothing a bit of credit can't fix. It's usually not smart to take loans for PC components but that is absolutely an option in this GPU market.


That's even worse. Debt is not free money, you have to pay interest rate.


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## Deleted member 215115 (Nov 19, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> That's even worse. Debt is not free money, you have to pay interest rate.


Depends. There are plans with no interest, at least here in Vampire land. There's a french bank that offers 3 or 4 installment plans with no interest and the money is automatically paid from your debit card each month. So if you choose a 4 month plan, you only pay the first month or a quarter of the graphics card's cost up front. That ain't bad.

But even if you do have to pay interest, the whole point is you're getting a graphics card now with not that much money up front. That's exactly what people are looking for.


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## The red spirit (Nov 19, 2021)

rares495 said:


> Depends. There are plans with no interest, at least here in Vampire land. There's a french bank that offers 3 or 4 installment plans with no interest and the money is automatically paid from your debit card each month. So if you choose a 4 month plan, you only pay the first month or a quarter of the graphics card's cost up front. That ain't bad.
> 
> But even if you do have to pay interest, the whole point is you're getting a graphics card now with not that much money up front. *That's exactly what people are looking for.*


Somehow I don't think so. Debt for computer parts is ridiculous. I would rather suffer with GT 1030, than have a debt for RTX 3080.


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## fluxc0d3r (Dec 4, 2021)

I would go with Kingston Renegade M.2 SSD, rather than Samsung 980 pro. Just wait for Intel Arc to come out soon. If you can stretch it, 40 series are expected a lot sooner.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Dec 11, 2021)

Unless you are doing productivity and rendering, you will not notice a difference in games and general use, i7 8700 is very capable today, and will still be years from now, if i were you i would wait, but reading your post seeing how early you want to upgrade despite a small benefit to your usecase i would assume its a habit of your that cant be helped.... 

anyway



GamingLove said:


> MB, MSI MAG Z690 TomahawkWiFi DDR4, or Gigabyte Aorus Elite DDR4


Both are good options, but i would chose the gigabyte because it use direct VRM phase design, meaning better efficiency



GamingLove said:


> CPU, Core i7 12700k
> MB, MSI MAG Z690 TomahawkWiFi DDR4, or Gigabyte Aorus Elite DDR4
> RAM, 32 GB G.Skill Tridenz Z 3600Mhz
> HD, Samsung 980 Pro NVMe M.2
> ...


everything els seems good



GamingLove said:


> So I'm asking you if you colud please tell my what do yout think about this upgrade. Is the new Core i7 12700K really worth the upgrade, or I should stick with the core i9 one?


Its not worth it, i woudnt tell anyone who has a 8700 to upgrade, the only reasons i would tell that person to, is because he is doing productivity work or dont have a PC at all so there for better buy the latest hardware, againe, i would stick to what you have for atleast another generation until Alder Lake successor releases, in the meantime the biggest diffrence to your gaming performance is a GPU upgrade, but i also woudnt tell you to upgrade now, wait until RTX 4000 series comes out nest year, it would suck to pay big prices and have a new card release not even a year from its purchase


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## Deleted member 24505 (Feb 24, 2022)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> Alder Lake is basically a beta platform at the moment, almost like launch Zen 1. Unless you enjoy fiddling around troubleshooting why stuff doesn't work as intended I don't see the point in upgrading, especially considering you have a plenty competent CPU already, especially for the GPU...



Sorry to tell you, but as usual with a Intel setup. I built it and it just works out of the boxes. No fiddling, no wondering why something does not work. Oh and it's a 12700k


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## Mindweaver (Feb 24, 2022)

Tigger said:


> Sorry to tell you, but as usual with a Intel setup. I built it and it just works out of the boxes. No fiddling, no wondering why something does not work. Oh and it's a 12700k


Yeah, I have had no problems. It's crazy fast in every way so far for me. The bump in performance was huge over my Ryzen R5 2600 and my 5820k. I'm itching to upgrade my 5820k to the i9.


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