# [EOL] Arctic MX-5 is here!!Tests incoming! Completed.  Now its MX-6 testing time!



## Space Lynx (Mar 5, 2021)

https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-MX-5-incl-Spatula-Non-Conductive/dp/B08T621LGC
		


I'm bit surprised it comes with a spatula, I have always just used the large pea method and never had issues. Maybe I will try spatula and get it even I don't know.

$6.99 (Nice ~ "LinusTechTips")


just ordered mine, incoming tests, from my arctic mx-4.... nothing else will change 1.360v all core 4625 no downclocking i simply will change paste, keep same fan curve, run same tests.  let's see if I gain anything, keep in mind my rig is only 4 months old.  so the mx-4 was fresh as are the tests from it.

@W1zzard 
@R-T-B rock on!!!!  


edit:  tests i plan to run, cinebench r23 10 min loop for single and all core, 3d mark firestrike extreme stress tests entire 20 minute loop or however long it is, same with time spy stress tests... and cinebench r20 single and all core.

i will compare before after, change nothing but the paste and boot up.      let's see if we can lose 3 celsius!!!  i doubt it, we might get 2 though

edit2 :  that is a basic link, I do not gain any money from that link. this is just about having fun for the hobby for me, cheers!


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## jboydgolfer (Mar 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I'm bit surprised it comes with a spatula


the spatula adds $0.10, you can select no spreader though & save 10 cents.


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## Space Lynx (Mar 5, 2021)

jboydgolfer said:


> the spatula adds $0.10, you can select no spreader though & save 10 cents.
> 
> View attachment 190998 View attachment 190999




yeah I saw that when I ordered. for ten cents its worth it imo, just in case.  lol also the little spatula might come in handy for other stuff so meh.


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## bobbybluz (Mar 5, 2021)

I wonder how it'll compare to Gelid GC Extreme in an AIO?


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## Space Lynx (Mar 5, 2021)

bobbybluz said:


> I wonder how it'll compare to Gelid GC Extreme in an AIO?



no idea mate, I don't have the resources or time to test anymore pastes. I can test my MX-4 versus MX-5 though, especially since it was a fresh paste only 4 months ago, should be fine. 

my guess is 2 celsius better than all other pastes, that's my hope anyway... i read one review on Amazon, the only mx-5 review, he says he gained 5 celsius on a 5600x, but no other info... so yeah take with grain of salt.


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## jboydgolfer (Mar 5, 2021)

in case anyone is interested, Arctic is giving away $1000/month to winners in their 'drawing'. to enter you must buy mx5, scan the QR code, & fill out the form for a chance to win. 

*Arctic Giveaway Here*


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## Space Lynx (Mar 5, 2021)

jboydgolfer said:


> in case anyone is interested, Arctic is giving away $1000/month to winners in their 'drawing'. to enter you must buy mx5, scan the QR code, & fill out the form for a chance to win.
> 
> *Arctic Giveaway Here*




i had no idea ty!!!


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## jboydgolfer (Mar 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> i had no idea ty!!!


no sweat. gotta read that fine print 
definitely worth a try for a Grand


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## VulkanBros (Mar 5, 2021)

Still haven't found anything better than Kryonaut Thermal Grizzly - but, let it come to the test 
​


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## Space Lynx (Mar 5, 2021)

VulkanBros said:


> Still haven't found anything better than Kryonaut Thermal Grizzly - but, let it come to the test
> ​



I tried kryonaut once, was very expensive for the amount I got, and was pain in butt to put on.. maybe the one I got was old... but MX-4 was just so much easier to use/squirt out to right pea size.


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## VulkanBros (Mar 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I tried kryonaut once, was very expensive for the amount I got, and was pain in butt to put on.. maybe the one I got was old... but MX-4 was just so much easier to use/squirt out to right pea size.



You are right on the consistency - it is a little harder to spread - prize - well I bought 3 (1g) tubes on Black Friday for $8 each, using it on the CPU and GPU, 
and it is better than MX-4 and Gelid GC-Extreme - IMO


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## Mussels (Mar 5, 2021)

i want reviiieeeeeews

At least it seems cheap


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## jboydgolfer (Mar 6, 2021)

my tube of MX-5 is arriving today.

*notice i splurged & spent the extra cheddar for the spatula!!*



package destroyed in transit.


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## GerKNG (Mar 6, 2021)

can't wait to see how long it takes to completely deteriorate into silicone soup after running 10 minutes on something above a ryzen 3...


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## qubit (Mar 6, 2021)

Cool, looking forward to it.


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## ThrashZone (Mar 6, 2021)

Hi,
I've got plenty of paste but will add it to my get list next time I need something from amazon...


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## LFaWolf (Mar 6, 2021)

The spatula is quite useful to scrape off old paste.


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## Blaylock (Mar 6, 2021)

Man! I just bought the giant 45g (or whatever it is) tube of MX-4. The cynic in me hopes the MX-5 isn't much better, but the enthusiast in me slaps that cynic silly.


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## Space Lynx (Mar 6, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> can't wait to see how long it takes to completely deteriorate into silicone soup after running 10 minutes on something above a ryzen 3...




I'm pretty sure Arctic would have tested it thoroughly before mass production, they have the best AIO on the markets these days, and overall seem to be competent. So I doubt it will be that bad. 

Mine is still out for delivery, but I won't be getting to anything until next weekend as I have been hired at a new job that starts Monday.


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## hat (Mar 6, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> can't wait to see how long it takes to completely deteriorate into silicone soup after running 10 minutes on something above a ryzen 3...


I keep seeing comments like this about the MX line and they seem to be completely unfounded. I've never, not once, had an issue with MX paste degrading like that, and I've used it on plenty of overclocked CPUs and graphics cards. Some notable examples include a hot running i7 920, and perhaps the best examples, my two GTX1070s that are constantly under mining load. The application is quite old, done some time around June/July 2017 or so. Here we are in early 2021 and there's nothing wrong with the paste, despite nearly 4 years of rough use.


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 6, 2021)

hat said:


> I keep seeing comments like this about the MX line and they seem to be completely unfounded. I've never, not once, had an issue with MX paste degrading like that, and I've used it on plenty of overclocked CPUs and graphics cards. Some notable examples include a hot running i7 920, and perhaps the best examples, my two GTX1070s that are constantly under mining load. The application is quite old, done some time around June/July 2017 or so. Here we are in early 2021 and there's nothing wrong with the paste, despite nearly 4 years of rough use.



I think because since 2017, MX-4 just seems to have gotten quite runny in consistency. I too have a a really old tube from the days when the packaging on the syringe was silver/grey and compared to the newer one in blue that i bought in 2019 some time, its a night and day difference. The formula did change but it was a change that wasnt really talked about apart from a few voices saying it pretty much melted out of place when used in horizontal applications such as laptops and GPUs etc etc.


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## R-T-B (Mar 6, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> can't wait to see how long it takes to completely deteriorate into silicone soup after running 10 minutes on something above a ryzen 3...


Arctic MX series is one of the better pastes for longevity historically.  It's their primary feature.


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## Space Lynx (Mar 6, 2021)

my mx-5 tube just came in the mail.  i will try to run some tests late next week or next weekend and update here.


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## hat (Mar 6, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Arctic MX series is one of the better pastes for longevity historically.  It's their primary feature.


Good thermal performance, easy application, easy clean up, and not being electrically conductive are all key features. That's what makes it a great paste and that's why I use it all the time. Never any problems with the MX line since I started using it over a decade ago. Sure you won't get the best thermal performance, but you're giving up other features for that. Can't have it all.


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## jboydgolfer (Mar 6, 2021)

personally i use Noctua,
but simply because Norton shipped me a tube or two for the Kreij memorial PC builds we used to do.

with all these TIM tubes, & the old single use syringes from when i worked at Dell, it looks like a junkies desk 
no TIM is 'bad' unless it is real garbo, MX, AS5, Noctua, Cryorigs, Coolermaster, ID cooling, theyre all fine.


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## robot zombie (Mar 6, 2021)

hat said:


> Good thermal performance, easy application, easy clean up, and not being electrically conductive are all key features. That's what makes it a great paste and that's why I use it all the time. Never any problems with the MX line since I started using it over a decade ago. Sure you won't get the best thermal performance, but you're giving up other features for that. Can't have it all.


TBF past a bottom level of low-performing pastes, they're all more similar than different on temps. There is basically "viable" "not viable" and "temperature delta margin nervosa" for options. The ones that ARE far enough behind to seriously look at the performance, aren't what you want anyway, and performance probably isn't the reason.

AFAIC if a paste does not result in significant cooling loss, the performance is not a factor. The longevity, ease of application, reactivity (chemical or mechanical etching,) and conductivity are pretty much all that matter in the end.

It's like so many of us always say when people ask about swapping paste. If you're thinking about swapping paste to solve a cooling problem, you have bigger cooling problems than paste can solve or no cooling problems at all, because you're thinking in single digit temperature deltas. Unless we're talking GPUs, some of which have had reps for bad paste/pad jobs which do hinder performance. Point is, you buy paste for consistency and reliability. It's the cooler that does the cooling.


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## hat (Mar 6, 2021)

robot zombie said:


> TBF past a bottom level of low-performing pastes, they're all more similar than different on temps. There is basically "viable" "not viable" and "temperature delta margin nervosa" for options. The ones that ARE far enough behind to seriously look at the performance, aren't what you want anyway, and performance probably isn't the reason.
> 
> AFAIC if a paste does not result in significant cooling loss, the performance is not a factor. The longevity, ease of application, reactivity (chemical or mechanical etching,) and conductivity are pretty much all that matter in the end.
> 
> It's like so many of us always say when people ask about swapping paste. If you're thinking about swapping paste to solve a cooling problem, you have bigger cooling problems than paste can solve or no cooling problems at all, because you're thinking in single digit temperature deltas. Unless we're talking GPUs, some of which have had reps for bad paste/pad jobs which do hinder performance. Point is, you buy paste for consistency and reliability. It's the cooler that does the cooling.


Pretty much this. The only time I would use a paste other than MX might be liquid metal, if I ever delid anything.


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## robot zombie (Mar 7, 2021)

Sometimes thermal paste reminds me a little of cable audiophoolery. From an engineering standpoint, there is little benefit to fancy cable geometry, exotic conductors, so on, simply because audio cables tend not to be nearly long enough to even be considered transmission lines. Basically if you have enough of a steady conductor there, it'll work about the same. Hum may be an issue with unbalanced lines. There may be electrical benefits to massively overbuilding them, but likely not sonic ones. Still people will buy the $1000 headphone cable with a full brochure of features and impressive specs over the $80 plain copper one with nice sheathing and connectors that will last forever. All for the promise of very marginal gains, when the most noticeable difference between fully functioning cables is build quality.

Same with thermal paste. A certain threshold of thermal conductivity is a given, where anything at least in that range will work about the same in the end and will not be the most impactful bottleneck in the system unless you already have the absolute most ideal cooling hardware possible. Past that, you spend a lot more for a few degrees of difference and maybe not even a better experience applying it. And the temperature difference is so small it could hide right in your margins no matter how much you go back and forth testing. I don't see a point in that. It's hobby nervosa to me. Something I try to avoid, for my health.

To counter this point, Steve Brule also says if you get ants on your ice cream cone, you're gonna eat them for protein. But I'm pretty sure that's a parody. Eating ants for protien is taking things a little too far. You can just have some mixed nuts or something. You don't need to put ants on your ice cream.

I wonder if somewhere along the line people confused the troubleshooting 101 advice of 'reapply thermal paste' with 'apply better thermal paste'. The issue there is in the application and not the paste itself, but I wonder how many people catch that consciously instead of just getting it in their heads that they need the one with the absolute best thermals and going on to always seek that. I guess our tendency to count and rank everything doesn't help.

Of course there are exceptions. LM for a couple of cases. And then there are LN2-specific formulae.

I guess when I run out of MX-4, I'll try MX-5. Honestly, I just hope they didn't ruin the formula. Call me stubborn. I like working with MX-4. I am the best and worst person to ever ask about thermal paste.


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## hat (Mar 7, 2021)

Yeah, I'll try MX5 when I run out of MX4... if MX6 isn't already a thing yet. I skipped MX3, by the time my MX2 ran out we already had MX4.


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## freeagent (Mar 7, 2021)

I didn't know I ran out of TFX until I had the old paste wiped off. So I went to my local shop and got a tube of AS5 lol.. its actually not too bad until it gets hot 

Curious what the hype is all about, I haven't tried any MX paste.


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## robot zombie (Mar 7, 2021)

It's really just decently well-performing paste with a nice balance of consistency and longevity. And price. Apply on pretty much anything. Just the definition of 'all around good' IME and IMO of course.


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## Space Lynx (Mar 7, 2021)

robot zombie said:


> It's really just decently well-performing paste with a nice balance of consistency and longevity. And price. Apply on pretty much anything. Just the definition of 'all around good' IME and IMO of course.



well my reference rx 6800 non-xt i'm pretty sure has proprietary paste that you can't replace, gamersnexus did a teardown of 6800 xt and i think non-xt is same im unsure, but i believe its some kind of graphite paste or something. so yeah my days of opening up gpu's to replace the paste are at an end sadly.  i get great temps with it so i don't want to risk opening it up.


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## hat (Mar 7, 2021)

I've heard of a graphite pad, never graphite paste...


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## sneekypeet (Mar 7, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> The spatula is quite useful to scrape off old paste.



I realize I am late to seeing this comment, but never has a more honest reason of why to include a spatula with TIM be uttered. Not only are they amazing for scraping the bulk off the IHS, but they also cut the grime out of the side and corner bits for the seriously OCD of us that have CPUs in images all the time.

As for application, I used dots and let the cooler mounting pressure do its thing. For applications, seems they (spatulas) suck, as all I have ever had in hand were made of textured plastic that would not clean completely.... IMO, of course


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## Space Lynx (Mar 7, 2021)

hat said:


> I've heard of a graphite pad, never graphite paste...












						The hotspot of the Radeon RX 6800 (XT), hurdles in the thermal grease replacement and the correct assembly sequence | igor'sLAB
					

Even though AMD has solved the determination of Tjunction ("hotspot temperature") differently with the new Radeon graphics cards (Navi21) and measures and calculates much more widely…




					www.igorslab.de
				




i'm not sure what it is. i think its graphite paste/carbon pad hybrid i dunno


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## PooPipeBoy (Mar 7, 2021)

Blaylock said:


> Man! I just bought the giant 45g (or whatever it is) tube of MX-4. The cynic in me hopes the MX-5 isn't much better, but the enthusiast in me slaps that cynic silly.



GD900 on Aliexpress is $6 (edit: $3 on sale right now) for a 30g tube and every bit as good as MX-4. I haven't used anything else for over a year now.


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## maxfly (Mar 7, 2021)

Just ordered a 4g tube, was only $7.50 shipped from Amazon. Wont be here until Wednesday tho. The only rig ive got to test it in has prolimatech pk3 on it. Ill try to make time to do a mx4 mount as well.


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## delshay (Mar 7, 2021)

hat said:


> I've heard of a graphite pad, never graphite paste...



You can buy graphite power on EBAY & mix it in with the paste.   ..Now you have Graphite Paste, not sure how well it will work thou.

Experiment at user(s) own risk.

EDIT: Thermal Pads will die a slow death. Meet the new king of thermal transfer for MOSFETS. You can now tie High side/Low side & Ground together for the ultimate heat transfer. I can't wait to test these new thermal jumpers.

THJP ThermaWick™ Thermal Jumper SMD Chips - Vishay / Thin Film | Mouser


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## PooPipeBoy (Mar 7, 2021)

delshay said:


> You can buy graphite power on EBAY & mix it in with the paste.   ..Now you have Graphite Paste, not sure how well it will work thou.
> 
> Experiment at user(s) own risk.



I don't recommend graphite powder at all. You can buy it in bulk and it's great for lubrication (I mix it with lanolin grease and it's brilliant for gate hinges) but it really shouldn't go anywhere near a computer. The powder is super fine and gets airborne easily, it stains everything, it's conductive. I've also tested the mixing method with regular thermal paste and it doesn't help at all. When you mix it the thermal paste turns into a gum-like solid and it's too difficult to work with. 100% not recommended.


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## Mussels (Mar 7, 2021)

i remember my brother lubed up the driveway with graphite powder once as kids, to make our bikes go faster or something

I can only imagine inside a PC will result in a broken PC so at least record the attempts on video for a highlights clip


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## delshay (Mar 7, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I don't recommend graphite powder at all. You can buy it in bulk and it's great for lubrication (I mix it with lanolin grease and it's brilliant for gate hinges) but it really shouldn't go anywhere near a computer. The powder is super fine and gets airborne easily, it stains everything, it's conductive. I've also tested the mixing method with regular thermal paste and it doesn't help at all. When you mix it the thermal paste turns into a gum-like solid and it's too difficult to work with. 100% not recommended.



Edited my last post.  ..See thermal jumpers link. Read the PDF Docs.


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## Sithaer (Mar 7, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> GD900 on Aliexpress is $6 (edit: $3 on sale right now) for a 30g tube and every bit as good as MX-4. I haven't used anything else for over a year now.



I have GD 900 on my GPU atm, repasted it a few months ago with it. _'also changed thermal pads'_
My bro bought it sometime ago cause it was cheap and heard good things about it.
I think I've seen Bryan talking about it on TechYesCity and he liked/suggested it as a cheap alternative to MX 4.

So far the temps are all good, longevity is what I'm not sure about but it can't be worse than how the original factory paste looked like after 3 years.

We do have MX 4 around and been using it for years on our CPUs with no issues but I did not want to 'waste' it on my GPU in case I mess it up.  _'I don't usually repaste GPUs, first time actually' _


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## nguyen (Mar 7, 2021)

If anyone can find Thermagic ZF-EX (which is just rebranded Thermalright TF-X) for cheap, go for it. This paste are so viscous that it will last a very long time under extreme condition (i.e laptop) and the performance is just a hair under the best paste (Kingping KPx, Kryonaut Extreme) while being much cheaper like 5usd for 2g tube.
Luumi's review


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## jboydgolfer (Mar 7, 2021)

kind of surprised to see the MX-5 is blue

i havent used MX in a long time, but i dont recall it being blue before.


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## bobbybluz (Mar 7, 2021)

jboydgolfer said:


> kind of surprised to see the MX-5 is blue
> 
> i havent used MX in a long time, but i dont recall it being blue before.
> 
> View attachment 191467


I repasted a GPU using MX-4 a couple of days ago and it's grey.


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## Kissamies (Mar 7, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> The spatula is quite useful to scrape off old paste.


I've always used toilet paper for cleaning the surfaces and it works fine.


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## P4-630 (Mar 7, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> I've always used toilet paper for cleaning the surfaces and it works fine.



Or kitchen towel paper.


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## jboydgolfer (Mar 7, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> I've always used toilet paper for cleaning the surfaces and it works fine.


i use an old SD card as a Spatula when i need one.
i also use toilet paper to clean the surface. 
im not one of those people who fears the 'particles of toilet paper causing a CPU meltdown', who also happen to often be the same people as those wrist strap suckers


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## Blaylock (Mar 7, 2021)

I grab the endrolls of the paper hand towels from work. They are absolutely perfect for cleaning old Tim.


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## thesmokingman (Mar 7, 2021)

It's pretty cheap for a 4g tube so I ordered one for spare. I've been using PK3 for a while now.


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## PooPipeBoy (Mar 8, 2021)

Sithaer said:


> I have GD 900 on my GPU atm, repasted it a few months ago with it. _'also changed thermal pads'_
> My bro bought it sometime ago cause it was cheap and heard good things about it.
> I think I've seen Bryan talking about it on TechYesCity and he liked/suggested it as a cheap alternative to MX 4.
> 
> ...



Yeah it's good stuff, possibly even underrated. I'm still using the first 30g tube I got in late-2019. My GTX1060 has been running it for about a year and it's still doing great.

One of my biggest complaints about common thermal pastes is that the small tubes are always running empty. That really sucks if you're doing CPU benchmarks and need to apply thermal paste many times. Bulk thermal paste is almost non-existent at retailers and on Ebay the definition of "bulk" is to buy a 20x or 50x lot of 1g tubes. It's so utterly dumb. A big 30g tube makes life so much better that I would pay good money to get one. And the fact that GD900 is so cheap and is so effective, for me personally it's a no-brainer.


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## freeagent (Mar 8, 2021)

It looks like its rated similarly to AS5.

I know people talk alotta smack about that paste, but its really not that bad lol..


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## Space Lynx (Mar 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It looks like its rated similarly to AS5.
> 
> I know people talk alotta smack about that paste, but its really not that bad lol..



there is simply no reason to risk a conductive paste when we have so many safer options, that's all.

i use coffee filter to clean my tim off, it doesn't leave any residue and my dad always has like a thousand of them in the pantry so eh.


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## freeagent (Mar 8, 2021)

But its not conductive lol, its capacitive 

I used it since socket 462, its fine.


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## Space Lynx (Mar 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> But its not conductive lol, its capacitive
> 
> I used it since socket 462, its fine.



AMD R5 5600X @ 4600MHz 1.225v

please tell me what settings you are using to get this stable... you either got a golden chip or I am doing settings all wrong.


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## yotano211 (Mar 8, 2021)

I use cool Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra with thermal tape around the processor on my laptop. 
I still have one of those mega tubes of mx4 somewhere in a box.


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## freeagent (Mar 8, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> AMD R5 5600X @ 4600MHz 1.225v
> 
> please tell me what settings you are using to get this stable... you either got a golden chip or I am doing settings all wrong.


Sure, I just set the multi to 46, core vid per ccx voltage to 1.225, the CPU over voltage override to the same value. 1 clock 1 voltage.. I tried so hard to nail down 4700 but just couldn't do it, at least with up to 1.325 it wouldn't. I did not set any LLC, all that stuff was left to auto. I did try up to max though. I have not changed any voltages other than vcore stuff for all core and vdimm. To get over 1900 I found was all sub timings. Also my 3600XT was better with 4 sticks. But.. to be fair I didnt spend much time with them once I got over 2000 FCLK


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## jboydgolfer (Mar 8, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> there is simply no reason to risk a conductive paste


im curious if anyone who actually should have their hands inside of a PC, has ever damaged something with Arctic Silver5. (rhetorical, im certain a million fools have damaged a million components all in equally ridiculous way)
ive used the stuff for what 2 decades or so, & ive heard this claim , & im aware of how conductivity can be dangerous to components.

its just that i get the 'wrist strap' feeling whenever i see someone post about/regarding the 'dangers' of AS5.
water is SUPER conductive, yet we cool electronics with it all the time, & there are lots of alternatives.

it just seems like this argument is a silly one to make (_not that you personally were making an argument, im speaking more to the subject generally_), nothing against you, its not like youre the first to post it, i just dont see the argument.

i dunno, maybe its just me


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## freeagent (Mar 8, 2021)

Its nothing like liquid metal. I haven't used liquid metal before.. but I would be more comfy splashing AS5 around then LM.


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## Space Lynx (Mar 8, 2021)

jboydgolfer said:


> im curious if anyone who actually should have their hands inside of a PC, has ever damaged something with Arctic Silver5. (rhetorical, im certain a million fools have damaged a million components all in equally ridiculous way)
> ive used the stuff for what 2 decades or so, & ive heard this claim , & im aware of how conductivity can be dangerous to components.
> 
> its just that i get the 'wrist strap' feeling whenever i see someone post about/regarding the 'dangers' of AS5.
> ...




well on the issue of water, I have used air coolers exclusively for the very same risk vs reward logic that I use for paste. I have several friends on steam who have informed me of their AIO leaking after 3-5 years, and I'm type of person to forget this kind of stuff, so I'd probably forget to check it often enough. where as with a nice air cooler, i can set it and leave it forever almost, minus dusting fans once in awhile.


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## PaulieG (Mar 8, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> AMD R5 5600X @ 4600MHz 1.225v
> 
> please tell me what settings you are using to get this stable... you either got a golden chip or I am doing settings all wrong.


No golden chip. Mine is similar. Voltage and frequency scaling on these chips do get weird over 4.5ghz. For instance, I need just 1.18v to get 4.5ghz stable, then 1.24v for 4.6ghz. Freeagent can get stable at 4.6 with slightly lower vcore, but he can't get stable at all at 4.7 whereas my chip will stabilize at 4.7ghz on 1.29v. Maybe I am just more familiar with the other voltage settings that help stabilize higher frequencies. Who knows.

Unrelated....I'm irrationally annoyed with the whole IF and memory relationship with Ryzen. Despite how good these chips really are, I hate being handicapped on memory overclocking unless you have highly binned B-Die. Most don't care, but I'm not much of a gamer. My game is overclocking and benchmarking. After playing with this little Intel i5 10600k I just picked up, I very well might sell my 5600x and Asus Strix B550 and grab a 11th gen Intel setup just for the overclocking flexibility with memory despite lower overall performance on the platform.


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## Kissamies (Mar 8, 2021)

I'll buy this instantly when it's available here in Finland. MX-4 has been my fav paste already for some time.


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## freeagent (Mar 8, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> Either that or I am just more familiar with the other voltage settings that help stabilize higher frequencies. Who knows.


That is pretty safe to say!


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## jboydgolfer (Mar 8, 2021)

id put this on my reference 3090, but i dont have an engineering Degree


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## PaulieG (Mar 8, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> I'll buy this instantly when it's available here in Finland. MX-4 has been my fav paste already for some time.


I used nothing but MX-4 after the first couple of years after it came out. It's just an all around solid paste. Not the best, but very good at everything you look for in a paste. The only better all around paste I've worked with is Noctua NT-H1. Maybe the MX-5 will end up on par with the Noctua, but in all honestly these pastes can only be so good. Much of the time temps have more to do with proper paste application and seating your cooler correctly.


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## Kissamies (Mar 8, 2021)

PaulieG said:


> I used nothing but MX-4 after the first couple of years after it came out. It's just an all around solid paste. Not the best, but very good at everything you look for in a paste. The only better all around paste I've worked with is Noctua NT-H1. Maybe the MX-5 will end up on par with the Noctua, but in all honestly these pastes can only be so good. Much of the time temps have more to do with proper paste application and seating your cooler correctly.


Yup, the Noctua paste is also fine, bought it once as my local store didn't have other good quality paste. Usually I order stuff from online tho, but as I had to get paste ASAP.


----------



## maxfly (Mar 9, 2021)

Got my MX-5 a day early. It is indeed baby blue lol. They make no claims as to it being superior to mx4 on the box. I thought they would make SOME kind of claim to it being a few degrees better or something other than it just being a prettier color...but no just the usual its non-conductive, capacitive, corroding etc etc etc
I may have time to get it applied and and run some comparison tests tonight.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 9, 2021)

maxfly said:


> Got my MX-5 a day early. It is indeed baby blue lol. They make no claims as to it being superior to mx4 on the box. I thought they would make SOME kind of claim to it being a few degrees better or something other than it just being a prettier color...but no just the usual its non-conductive, capacitive, corroding etc etc etc
> I may have time to get it applied and and run some comparison tests tonight.




please post them here, I am very interested. I'm more busy than I expected to be this week. so mine are delayed until weekend at least.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 9, 2021)

jboydgolfer said:


> im curious if anyone who actually should have their hands inside of a PC, has ever damaged something with Arctic Silver5


I did, but I was young and probably shouldn't have had my hands in the PC...

That's how you learn sometimes though.


----------



## maxfly (Mar 16, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> please post them here, I am very interested. I'm more busy than I expected to be this week. so mine are delayed until weekend at least.



Finalllyyy had a chance to give it a try. Heres the low down. Original paste is prolimatech pk3 thats been on for a couple of weeks.
Cpu- i7 8086k bone stock
Mb- Asrock z390 phantom gaming 9
Heatsink- Noctua chromax u12s with dual fans.
Ran aida64 cpu stress test for 30 mins after letting the rig come up to temp while browsing the forum for 10mins.
PK3 temps
Idle- 26c to 28c across all 6 cores almost exclusively. Very little variation in temps.
25c lowest and 
31c hottest. 
Load- 49c to 51c. Once the cpu got up to speed temps pretty much stayed the same. They didnt change for the most part. Hottest core hit 53c here and there for a quick second, coldest dropped to 47c in the same manner.
Pulled the hs after the 30 minute mark.
Cleaned the u12s and the cpu with 91% isopropyl and a wash cloth.
Used a qtip to clean the edges of the proc.
Using the same application method as with the pk3 (used a thermal grizzly spatula) i put half a pea sized drop of mx-5 on the cpu and used the mx-5 spatula to spread it as thinly as possible. Ended up with about 10-15% left on the spatula. MX-5 spatula is really flexible. 
Right at first the mx-5 came out of the tube kind of runny but only a tiny bit. Overall consistency is the same as that of any other quality paste after that. Easy to apply and spread with or without the spatula. Not to thick or thin. Only took a minute or two to get a nice thin smooth coating.
MX-5 temps
Idle- 28c to 36c while browsing for 10mins. All 6 cores jumped around quite a bit to the point that i really questioned my mount. Unlike the pk3 they never stayed at a specific temp rather were all going from as low as 28c to as high as 36c constantly.
Load- 50c to 56c 
coldest core 46c
hottest 57c. 
For the first 10 or so minutes temps were hopping up and down like the idle temps but after around 20 minutes they noticeably settled down to the 50-56c that i recorded and stayed right there until the test completed. My assumption is it just needed a bit of burn in or there were air bubbles, "shrug"
So overall its solid stuff. I still wonder if maybe i didnt get quite as good a mount with the mx-5 as i did withe pk3 but itll have to wait for another day for another remount. As it is im satisfied with the temps and look forward to seeing how everyone else fares with their new baby blues.

EDIT- SORRY FOR THE BOOK!


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 16, 2021)

jboydgolfer said:


> kind of surprised to see the MX-5 is blue
> 
> i havent used MX in a long time, but i dont recall it being blue before.
> 
> View attachment 191467


It's never been blue before.


Chloe Price said:


> I've always used toilet paper for cleaning the surfaces and it works fine.


I use QTips.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 16, 2021)

@maxfly thanks for posting your temps, I am swamped with new work related stuff this week. so my project is indefinitely postponed. 

bit sad to see you got worse scores than P3. I haven't opened mine yet.

I imagine Noctua NT-H2 and Kryonaut Extreme will beat this paste as well, however, it's important to note that this paste can last 8 years (probably longer) in storage, where as the other pastes have a life expectancy of 3 years, I know the Noctua one says shelf life of 3 years, I think anyway.

and as I said before, this mx-5 is more just for emergency usage for whenever I upgrade or something and forget to buy paste, I will have something long term in storage ready to go.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 16, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> it's important to note that this paste can last 8 years (probably longer) in storage


On a mounted cooler too.


----------



## Blaylock (Mar 17, 2021)

@maxfly Do you plan to repeat this test in a week or two to see if there is an extended burn-in time? The MX-5 looks like it's a long way from where the MX-2 was. The MX-2 took a while before drying a bit and settling down. Just wondering if the MX-5 is the same way. 

Thanks for the results.


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 17, 2021)

robot zombie said:


> TBF past a bottom level of low-performing pastes, they're all more similar than different on temps. There is basically "viable" "not viable" and "temperature delta margin nervosa" for options. The ones that ARE far enough behind to seriously look at the performance, aren't what you want anyway, and performance probably isn't the reason.
> 
> AFAIC if a paste does not result in significant cooling loss, the performance is not a factor. The longevity, ease of application, reactivity (chemical or mechanical etching,) and conductivity are pretty much all that matter in the end.
> 
> It's like so many of us always say when people ask about swapping paste. If you're thinking about swapping paste to solve a cooling problem, you have bigger cooling problems than paste can solve or no cooling problems at all, because you're thinking in single digit temperature deltas. Unless we're talking GPUs, some of which have had reps for bad paste/pad jobs which do hinder performance. Point is, you buy paste for consistency and reliability. It's the cooler that does the cooling.



See sig. All this paste nonsense is a great way to kill time.



jboydgolfer said:


> i use an old SD card as a Spatula when i need one.
> i also use toilet paper to clean the surface.
> im not one of those people who fears the 'particles of toilet paper causing a CPU meltdown', who also happen to often be the same people as those wrist strap suckers
> 
> View attachment 191474



This wrist strap sucker killed a hard drive with polarity difference, so I wouldn't discount that all so easily.

Also... any electronics assembly line looks like this, apparently.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 17, 2021)

Blaylock said:


> The MX-2 took a while before drying a bit and settling down.


Not that I recall. AS-5 yes, but not MX-2.


----------



## maxfly (Mar 18, 2021)

Blaylock said:


> @maxfly Do you plan to repeat this test in a week or two to see if there is an extended burn-in time? The MX-5 looks like it's a long way from where the MX-2 was. The MX-2 took a while before drying a bit and settling down. Just wondering if the MX-5 is the same way.
> 
> Thanks for the results.


Hey Blaylock good to see you man!
Actually i think my assumption was correct. It just needed a bit of time to settle in for lack of a better term. I havent had any real time to run aida again(will do that this afternoon or tonight) but from what im seeing at idle, temps are excellent compared to pk3. Again these are just browsing, no load but im not seeing any variation between cores at all. Maybe a few degrees here and there but thats it.
Over the past week its been idling at 26 to 28c consistently with the same ambient. So much better than day one with far fewer hitches and jumps. I like what im seeing and will let you all know how the load temps look later today when i can spend some time in front of the screen.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 18, 2021)

Vayra86 said:


> See sig. All this paste nonsense is a great way to kill time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are good for assembly lines and if you do a lot of builds, but I typically just ground myself to my case and all is well.  *knocks on wood*


----------



## maxfly (Mar 18, 2021)

alright, just finished running aida64 cpu benchmark for 30 minutes and im impressed!
min temp was 49c 
max was 55c
all cores stayed within a degree or two once the test got up to temp with core #2 staying at 53c and core #6 staying at 49c the rest were either 50c or 51c so almost the same as pk3 except for core#2. not bad at all. im going to do a remount this weekend at some point and see if i can account for core #2 and see if the early strangeness was an anamoly or if its just the way this stuff behaves until its had time to set in. ill also take some pics of the ihs and heatsink base to show everyone what kind of coverage i got using the MX-5 spatula method. 
if i could find the time i would do a head to head with MX-4 but i dont see that happening anytime soon but i will try.
Anyhow, hurry up and get to work guys and gals! im looking forward to seeing what your impressions are!


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 19, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> They are good for assembly lines and if you do a lot of builds, but I typically just ground myself to my case and all is well.  *knocks on wood*



Two knocks on wood might change that polarity again, I see you like living on the edge 

But yeah...I have a wrist strap and forget it more often than not.


----------



## jboydgolfer (Apr 1, 2021)

i finally got to use this new MX-5 i bought at release & i wasnt impressed. temps werent even on Par for normal TIM. 
in my experience it was a dud release.


----------



## LFaWolf (Apr 1, 2021)

OP has not updated with his test results yet. I am on the fence with the purchase until I see some numbers.



jboydgolfer said:


> i finally got to use this new MX-5 i bought at release & i wasnt impressed. temps werent even on Par for normal TIM.
> in my experience it was a dud release.



Perhaps your heatsink is not tightened or the applied TIM is not even? What makes you say that, any results you can share?


----------



## AsRock (Apr 1, 2021)

I nearly got some but i ended up getting MX-4 and MX-5 worked out $6 more with not being a prime member.

MX-4 shipped for $12.





						Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-4 (8 Grams) - Thermal Compound Paste, Carbon Based High Performance, Heatsink Paste, Thermal Compound CPU for All Coolers, Thermal Interface Material: Computers & Accessories
					

Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-4 (8 Grams) - Thermal Compound Paste, Carbon Based High Performance, Heatsink Paste, Thermal Compound CPU for All Coolers, Thermal Interface Material: Computers & Accessories



					www.amazon.com
				






Chloe Price said:


> I've always used toilet paper for cleaning the surfaces and it works fine.



Coffee filters so no fibers are left behind,  like come on they like $1 for 50+


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 1, 2021)

jboydgolfer said:


> i finally got to use this new MX-5 i bought at release & i wasnt impressed. temps werent even on Par for normal TIM.
> in my experience it was a dud release.


I think you did something wrong. Bought a tube for my shop and it tests out to be on par or a bit better than MX4 and Noctua's stuff.


----------



## GerKNG (Apr 14, 2021)

just got my 4g syringe.

it's worse than my 1 year old GC Extreme.
but that's basically what i expected from arctic. dirt cheap crap.


----------



## Vario (Apr 14, 2021)

Thermal paste is thermal paste.   A lot of effort for a minimal degree difference between the best and worst pastes.


----------



## phanbuey (Apr 14, 2021)

darn... i thought it woud be good...

o well.


----------



## 27MaD (Apr 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I'm bit surprised it comes with a spatula


idk my MX-4 came with a spatula, pretty useful tbh


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Apr 14, 2021)

27MaD said:


> idk my MX-4 came with a spatula, pretty useful tbh



I think the 2018/19 batches started coming with spatulas. I remember ordering mine and it coming with one.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 15, 2021)

Vario said:


> Thermal paste is thermal paste.   A lot of effort for a minimal degree difference between the best and worst pastes.



It comes down to the fact that thermal paste is such a bitch to test and verify. Some thermal paste manufacturers provide thermal conductivity values but they practically never correlate with real world cooling performance.


----------



## nguyen (Apr 15, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> It comes down to the fact that thermal paste is such a bitch to test and verify. Some thermal paste manufacturers provide thermal conductivity values but they practically never correlate with real world cooling performance.



Well thermal conductivity is only one part of the equation, it is the thermal resistance that is the key.
Thermal resistance = thermal paste thickness/thermal conductivity

Meaning the thinner that thermal paste can get squished (paste with finer particle), the lower thermal resistance. You can see that some low viscosity and low conductivity thermal paste can outperform high viscosity and high conductivity paste when applied to CPU with high mounting pressure.
However with low mounting pressure application like in Laptop, highly viscous and high conductivity paste is more desireable.

All in all I prefer high viscosity+high conductivity paste, they are more versatile and longer lasting than low viscosity paste.


----------



## Blaylock (Apr 15, 2021)

I used up the last of my old MX-2 that I've had for a few years and made the switch to MX-4 a few months ago. I've noticed the MX-4 is much harder to remove from the CPU and Cooler. It's a lot more "sticky" and requires more alcohol than the older MX-2. Also, I finally pulled a CPU out of its socket the other day while removing the cooler. Normally I rotate the cooler back and forth a few times to break the seal but this was on an older AM2 socket and the cooler bracket prevented this. There is definitely a stronger bond between CPU and Cooler from MX-2 to Mx-4. 

How is MX-5 comparatively?


----------



## AsRock (Apr 15, 2021)

Blaylock said:


> I used up the last of my old MX-2 that I've had for a few years and made the switch to MX-4 a few months ago. I've noticed the MX-4 is much harder to remove from the CPU and Cooler. It's a lot more "sticky" and requires more alcohol than the older MX-2. Also,* I finally pulled a CPU out of its socket the other day while removing the cooler*. Normally I rotate the cooler back and forth a few times to break the seal but this was on an older AM2 socket and the cooler bracket prevented this. There is definitely a stronger bond between CPU and Cooler from MX-2 to Mx-4.
> 
> How is MX-5 comparatively?



Your doing it wrong, warmth and twisty twisty


----------



## Blaylock (Apr 15, 2021)

I normally do the twisty twisty. Just couldn't in that application.


----------



## Edwired (Apr 21, 2021)

I have been using arctic mx-4 for a number of years now as I always get the 2019 version as it pretty easy to apply as the method I use it to spread the paste is using a very clean finger and do the cross/plus pattern on the die/ihs and anything left on the finger goes onto the heatsink so it have all the area covered. Once it done it should look flat on both die/ihs and heatsink. I always get the perfect contact for heat transfers.


----------



## Falkentyne (Apr 25, 2021)

I put on some MX-5 on my Radeon r9-290X sapphire reference blower and the temps seem to be about 1C worse than Kryonaut/Kryonaut Extreme/Thermalright TFX (which all seem to be close to the same).
Not applying it to my 3090 FE since I don't think the paste is thick enough for a convex die.  Maybe I'll throw some on my laptop GTX 1070 MXM card, but I have TFX on that (LM on the BGA CPU) and that's working well so I really don't feel like doing that right now.


----------



## sam_86314 (Apr 25, 2021)

Been using the MX-5 for a bit now. Not really a fan of the consistency. It's hard to apply a small amount, and it's more difficult to clean off.

I'll probably stick with MX-4 after I use up the 8g tube of MX-5 I got.


----------



## AsRock (Apr 25, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Been using the MX-5 for a bit now. Not really a fan of the consistency. It's hard to apply a small amount, and it's more difficult to clean off.
> 
> I'll probably stick with MX-4 after I use up the 8g tube of MX-5 I got.



Yeah $13 for 8g  shipped is hard to beat.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 25, 2021)

based on everything I read here, looks like I got excited for nothing. I probably will just sell my mx-5 tube unopened at this point, I have always wanted to use the Noctua NT-H2, bit pricey but eh I'd rather support Noctua as I respect them as a company more than most others.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 25, 2021)

sam_86314 said:


> Been using the MX-5 for a bit now. Not really a fan of the consistency. It's hard to apply a small amount, and it's more difficult to clean off.
> 
> I'll probably stick with MX-4 after I use up the 8g tube of MX-5 I got.



That's actually a good thing. Thinner pastes are easy to apply but they suffer more from the pump-out effect and need to be changed more regularly. I would imagine they made MX-5 thicker for a bit more longevity between applications.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 25, 2021)

Found these reviews,








 







 








I think the general take away is that MX-5 is a solid performer for the price and a great replacement for MX-4.



lynx29 said:


> based on everything I read here, looks like I got excited for nothing. I probably will just sell my mx-5 tube unopened at this point, I have always wanted to use the Noctua NT-H2, bit pricey but eh I'd rather support Noctua as I respect them as a company more than most others.


Why? Keep it, use it, enjoy. Unless you're going to be doing some extreme OCing, the difference in performance will not justify the hassle and expense of getting NT-H2.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 25, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Found these reviews,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




hmm not bad. basically the same as mx-4 overall but with longer shelf life. i guess i will keep it and just use it as my emergency paste as planned. that was main reason i went with it after all... noctua has only a 2 year shelf life i think i read... yikes.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> noctua has only a 2 year shelf life i think i read... yikes.


Those estimates can be taken with a big grain of salt. A PC I built for a friend 8 years ago which had a C2Q and a CoolerMaster Geminii had AS-5 which was never changed. It was working perfectly. The only reason for replacement was a much needed upgrade. The AS-5 was a bit hard(as expected) but looked fine. Point being that the estimated "shelf life" is more of a sell-by-date kind of thing and has little bearing on the useful lifespan of the product.


----------



## ThrashZone (Apr 25, 2021)

Hi,
Depends on how it's stored.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 25, 2021)

I'm not so sure one really needs a thermal conductivity much above say 5 W/meter K

If the power is 100 W, the area 3cm^2 and the thickness 0.05 mm then the temperature drop will be just over 1 C

I'd rather have a paste that lasts.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I'm not so sure one really needs a thermal conductivity much above say 5 W/mK
> 
> If the power is 100 W, the area 3cm^2 and the thickness 0.05 mm then the temperature drop will be just over 1 C
> 
> I'd rather have a paste that lasts.



what about thermal grizzly conductonaut?  I got 20 celsius drop in temps from that on my laptop... desktops don't see that kind of gain but i think they still can get a 5-10 celsius drop from conductnaut depending on the cooler used.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 25, 2021)

Then something else is going on, as the best improvement over a normal thermal grease is about 1°C

I'm using the equation that defines thermal conductivity

Δ_T = P/A _Δ_x/k_​
Δ_T_ is temperature drop (in degrees C)
_P_ is the power (in watts)
_A_ is the area (in meters^2)
Δ_x_ is the thickness (in meters)
_k_ is the thermal conductivity (in W/meter K)


----------



## ThrashZone (Apr 25, 2021)

Hi,
Liquid metal is another beast
You'd always see big gains if applied evenly.
Of course lots can go wrong too lol


----------



## Shrek (Apr 25, 2021)

That stuff scares me

Gallium Induced Failure of a Heat Sink - Bing video


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> That stuff scares me
> 
> Gallium Induced Failure of a Heat Sink - Bing video



I'm pretty sure it is fine as long as the only metal it comes into contact with is copper. I think people make the mistake of using non-copper contacts with it... at least this is what I remember when I was putting it on my CPU laptop. which has full copper on both sides.


----------



## ThrashZone (Apr 25, 2021)

Hi,
Yep nickel or copper only.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 25, 2021)

I'm happy with SuperLube thermal grease even if I am paying a few °C as a result

Good to 500°F so should last.


----------



## Falkentyne (Apr 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I'm happy with SuperLube thermal grease even if I am paying a few °C as a result
> 
> Good to 500°F so should last.



Hi, I remember you from Jonnyguru forums.
You know your way around power supply hardware very well, but I think your CPU knowledge is a bit lagging.
That Super Lube gel is terrible.  Other people have tested it.  There was a thread about it long ago and it was atrocious.  Compared to Kryonaut, on something like a 9900k, it's like more than 10C worse.  And it's only 0.55 w/mk.  There was an article (maybe around 2015) which showed Super Lube 10C worse than a typical decent thermal paste (pictures dont work anymore but the review was linked on tomshardware to here: https://overclockersonline.net/?p=50117671 )   And I remember this being discussed on another main site once---terrible.

This type of gel is ONLY suitable for heavy machinery or electronics with low power density.  Absolutely NOT for any modern CPU nor video card.

Also, while your w/mk formula you gave is accurate, it doesn't take into account other factors that go into thermal paste material. 

And you can clearly see from this chart right here that your w/mk theory falls right on its face in real life in real world usage.






						TechnologyGuide
					

Thank you for visiting the TechnologyGuide network. Unfortunately, these forums are no longer active. We extend a heartfelt thank you to the entire community for their steadfast support—it is really you, our readers, that drove




					forum.notebookreview.com
				




Just to put this in perspective, IC Diamond is 4.5 w/mk.  Yet look how well it does.  But you don't want to use it on a CPU IHS.  There it's w/mk makes it fall behind the main paste leaders (Kryo Extreme, TFX, MX-5, Kryonaut, Gel Maker Nano, etc).


Alphacool "Subzero", aka " Phobya Nanogrease Extreme" (it's the same crap) is 16.5 w/mk.
It's almost as thick as Thermalright TFX, yet it does much worse.  Terrible.

And I've tested Nanogrease Extreme on a r9 290X vs Kryonaut.  The nanogrease extreme always performed worse (like 2C or something).
On my r9 290X, Arctic MX-5 was only about 1C worse than Kryonaut.  Thermalright TFX is better on my 10900k after curing a week (compared to Kryonaut) and otherwise trades blows with Kryonaut Extreme.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 26, 2021)

I concede that the SuperLube offering is far from ideal; that is why I said I felt that going beyond 5 W/ meter K was probably not worth it (for paste);
and you are right, I assumed 1/20th of a millimeter thickness, while thick pastes may make this difficult.

However, my Core 2 Quad only reaches around 70°C when stressed by CPU-Z and idles around 40°C (on SuperLube)

The problem with all the reviews: I want to know which pastes will last indefinitely and is the reason I went with SuperLube;
I am wondering about carbon thermal pads as they should last, but the 35 W/meter-Kelvin is deceptive as the thickness is more than for thermal paste.

So let's calculate for 0.2 mm carbon pads
P = 100 W​A = 0.03^2 m^2​k = 35 W/meter Kelvin​Δx = 0.2 10^-3 m​
to yield less than 1°C drop; so maybe this is the direction I should take.

I think Indium foil can also be used as a thermal pad (82 W/meter-Kelvin), as thin as 0.05 mm on ebay

So let's calculate for an 0.05 mm Indium pad
P = 100 W​A = 0.03^2 m^2​k = 82 W/meter Kelvin​Δx = 0.05 10^-3 m​
yielding less than a 1/10th of a degree; that would be hard to beat so I'd be tempted to go with the thicker 0.1mm offering;
but I don't know if Indium is soft enough to mold to the surfaces it interfaces (it is softer than lead). Then again it might be best to avoid an electrical conductor.

Concerning diamond containing paste, I have read that it can scratch what it is in contact with.

On a side issue:
It bugs me to see W/mK since I read mK as 'milli-Kelvin' and not 'meter Kelvin'

Any idea if JonnyGuru will ever come back?


Now you have made me wonder if the paste/metal interface suffers a significant temperature drop...


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Then something else is going on, as the best improvement over a normal thermal grease is about 1°C
> 
> I'm using the equation that defines thermal conductivity
> 
> ...



If only it were that simple. Thermal conductivity is just one variable in thermal transfer across multiple boundaries, and on top of THAT, there is no standardized method for calculating thermal conductivity. Those values have such little meaning that I don't even read them.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I concede that the SuperLube offering is far from ideal


Regardless, does it do the job? If it does the job you need and does it well then it is suited for your case scenario. Put another way, if it works for you then carry on and quit giving consideration to nay-sayers...


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 26, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Regardless, does it do the job? If it does the job you need and does it well then it is suited for your case scenario. Put another way, if it works for you then carry on and quit giving consideration to nay-sayers...



Brand loyalty is really strong when it comes to thermal pastes. Even the best thermal paste in the world won't be noticed by many people if it's from an obscure brand.

There's a bit of psychology involved too, because generally a higher priced product is perceived by consumers to be higher quality. I recall a story my relatives told me about how they had bee hives and couldn't sell any of the honey they produced, and it only started getting popular after they doubled the price. Consumers are just hard-wired to assume that a cheap price by default means rubbish quality. I see exactly the same mentality when I recommend the GD900 bulk thermal paste which is ridiculously cheap compared to retail pastes, I can present all the benchmarks in the world to prove that it works really effectively but people will still assume that it's a rubbish product and they should avoid it. That's just how consumers are.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 26, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Brand loyalty is really strong when it comes to thermal pastes. Even the best thermal paste in the world won't be noticed by many people if it's from an obscure brand.
> 
> There's a bit of psychology involved too, because generally a higher priced product is perceived by consumers to be higher quality. I recall a story my relatives told me about how they had bee hives and couldn't sell any of the honey they produced, and it only started getting popular after they doubled the price. Consumers are just hard-wired to assume that a cheap price by default means rubbish quality. I see exactly the same mentality when I recommend the GD900 bulk thermal paste which is ridiculously cheap compared to retail pastes, I can present all the benchmarks in the world to prove that it works really effectively but people will still assume that it's a rubbish product and they should avoid it. That's just how consumers are.


My experience is that people are results driven and when something works for them they tend to stay with it, especially when that something works well. Brand loyalty only factors in when a particular brand performs well consistently.


----------



## joemama (Apr 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> P = 100 WA = 0.3^2 m^2k = 35 W/meter KelvinΔx = 0.2 10^-3 m


You've got your area wrong, 0.3^2 square meters is 30x30cm


----------



## Shrek (Apr 26, 2021)

You are right; it was a typo, the calculations were done with 0.03^2 so the results are the same (fixed the original); much appreciated.

My desire is longevity and none of the reviews cover this, for obvious reason.



lexluthermiester said:


> Regardless, does it do the job? If it does the job you need and does it well then it is suited for your case scenario. Put another way, if it works for you then carry on and quit giving consideration to nay-sayers...


Ah, but it is very important to listen to the critics, even if they are wrong; the faster I find my own error (if there is one) the faster I find the solution and the lesser of a fool I seem ;-)


Now we have GD900-1 which is a lot more expensive than GD900; anyone tried this?

GD900 (4.8 W/m.K)
GD900-1 (6 W/m.K)


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Ah, but it is very important to listen to the critics, even if they are wrong; the faster I find my own error


Perhaps. But if the compound you are using is working for you, and working well, there is no error. Maybe room for improvement, but certainly not an error.


Andy Shiekh said:


> the faster I find the solution and the lesser of a fool I seem ;-)


Why do you care if anyone thinks you a fool? Use what works for you.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 26, 2021)

Because I have seen people who don't care and feel they are always right... it is not a pretty thing to see; so I try to be right, but am delighted to be shown wrong.

The video card I just brought back to life with a reflow reaches 90°C using FurMark so I am wondering if I need something better than SuperLube. In reality FurMark is perhaps unrealistic but it was a great way to stress test the card after the reflow repair.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> The video card I just brought back to life with a reflow reaches 90°C using FurMark so I am wondering if I need something better than SuperLube.


Furmark is a known card-killer. I've seen this first hand. It is an extreme stress testing utility. 90C is actually not bad(depending on the card). There's nothing wrong with the TIM you are using. Better cooling is needed. Word of caution though, you should avoid using Furmark for anything more than a few minutes(read 3 or 4) at a time or you risk permanent damage to the GPU tested.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 26, 2021)

Oops... I let it run for several hours to be sure the reflow was good.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Oops... I let it run for several hours to be sure the reflow was good.


Oh, wow... Don't do that again.. One can get away with 5 or 6 minutes but several hours is asking for trouble. And for a GPU you just reflowed/repaired, no need pushing your luck. Although, if it's still stable and running after that level of brutal torture, you can feel confident about your repair work!


----------



## freeagent (Apr 26, 2021)

I ran it once on my 980 when I first got it.. it tripled its power consumption at the wall and I will never run it again 

The bios switch was not in its stock position and I think it was getting full power.. I had an 850w PSU and my meter was showing 750w with an overclocked 3770K..

Edit:

I may have had the CPU loaded to just to see what the worst case scenario would be.. because I was silly and did things like that.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 26, 2021)

Imagine a virus whose task it was to destroy the video card... a card should be able to take full load.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 26, 2021)

That's what I thought too. But the big numbers scared me 

To me it was not natural lol.. but yet I run Linpack quite often and that too is not natural..


----------



## Shrek (Apr 26, 2021)

This pump out effect is concerning

(1) Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - Bing video

Makes me wonder about Diaper cream that is 40% zinc oxide because it will dry out and no more pump out.

Yes, I'm just kidding; but it might be why manufacturers use thermal compound that sets.


----------



## Falkentyne (Apr 27, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> You are right; it was a typo, the calculations were done with 0.03^2 so the results are the same (fixed the original); much appreciated.
> 
> My desire is longevity and none of the reviews cover this, for obvious reason.
> 
> ...



Longevity?
Buy Thermalright TFX.  Very long lasting paste.  Very durable with good contact pressure being used.  Just make sure the contact pressure is firm and even and proper.

IC Diamond is probably the most durable but that's up to debate.
I heard the extremely old Arctic Ceramique lasts forever though.  Ceramique 1, not 2.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 27, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> You are right; it was a typo, the calculations were done with 0.03^2 so the results are the same (fixed the original); much appreciated.
> 
> My desire is longevity and none of the reviews cover this, for obvious reason.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip, you better believe that I'm going to (and already did) buy some for testing. I didn't know about GD900-1 until now. GD900 is already on par with MX-4 and there's only a few random videos in other languages claiming a 1-2C improvement with GD900-1. I'll find out if that's true in due course.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 27, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Thanks for the tip, you better believe that I'm going to (and already did) buy some for testing. I didn't know about GD900-1 until now. GD900 is already on par with MX-4 and there's only a few random videos in other languages claiming a 1-2C improvement with GD900-1. I'll find out if that's true in due course.


Of course I went and messed everything up by bringing in yet another factor, namely 'the pump effect'

That said, I very much appreciate your testing candidates; I'm tempted to stock up on the old GD900

I'm still trying to find out if there is a significant temperature drop at the paste/metal interface... which would invalidate the straight thermal conductivity calculations.

Cost is a big issue for me; I got my Core 2 Quad CPU for $25 and Thermalright TFX is $14 for just 2g and even so is rated for just 8 years... my computer is already 12 years old and still going strong. 85g of SuperLube was $7 and should last longer than 8 years.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 27, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> IC Diamond is probably the most durable but that's up to debate.


Sorry, I will not use IC Diamond for any reason and can't in good faith recommend anyone try it either. A few years ago they made a TIM that was doing physical damage to IHS surfaces and bare dies that either came stock that way or were delidded CPU's. There was a big scandal about it and the company's reaction, response and behavior was enough to make me want to avoid them. There was a big bit of drama here in TPU's forums over the matter.



Falkentyne said:


> I heard the extremely old Arctic Ceramique lasts forever though. Ceramique 1


True! I still have a tube of it that still works fine. I don't use it as it's performance is lesser than newer TIM's, but it's not useless and remains viable for a very long time.


----------



## thesmokingman (Apr 27, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Imagine a virus whose task it was to destroy the video card... a card should be able to take full load.


Do you drive your car flat out for 500 mile testing to see if it should just work? GPU like any device or product is made for the expected environment. They aren't equipped with coolers that can handle something like furmark for hours on end.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 27, 2021)

Exactly why I mentioned a virus... I was reluctant to voice this concern as it might give someone ideas.

Some programs offload calculations to the GPU, mining comes to mind; so yes, I can see scenarios where the GPU needs to be able to carry a full load for extended periods of time.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 28, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Of course I went and messed everything up by bringing in yet another factor, namely 'the pump effect'
> 
> That said, I very much appreciate your testing candidates; I'm tempted to stock up on the old GD900
> 
> ...



I wouldn't get too hung up on details, opinions and rumors. There's more than enough conflicting information in thermal paste land to drive you clinically insane. The reality is that there's plenty of good products out there that will do the job. I haven't had much experience with the longevity of thermal pastes, but the only ones I've noticed that have gone bad were the stock Intel heatsink pastes that had expired after five years.

Why not give MX-2 or MX-4 a go? They perform good and will last a long time in your main rig, and then keep the Superlube stuff as backup or for other projects.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 28, 2021)

Might just do that, but not till you have reported on GD900

Nobody seems to be mentioning the Halnziye HY series
Shenzhen Halnziye Electronics Co., Ltd._Others

HY410 1.42 W/K.m
HY420 1.63
HY430 1.84
HY450 2.15

HY510 1.93
HY520 2.3
HY530 2.5
HY550 2.7

HY610 3.05
HY620 3.34
HY630 3.57
HY650 3.76

HY710 3.17
HY720 3.46
HY730 3.65
HY750

HY810A 4.15
HY810B 3.78
HY810 nano 4.63

HY880 5.15
HY881
HY882 6.0
HY883 6.5

why so many? and I have not listed them all


Concerning the clinically insane part... I fear it is already too late...


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Apr 28, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Might just do that, but not till you have reported on GD900



I'm still working on my methodology and verifying that the readings are consistent. But from what I've seen MX-4 and GD900 perform basically the same, maybe with a tiny 1 degree advantage to GD900. Those are unofficial results so the magnitude of difference might change.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 28, 2021)

from what i can gather on youtube it looks like the best paste for desktop PC is kyronaut extreme... i just went to go buy some, and it costs $30 for 2 gram tube.  RIP

i'll pass


----------



## nguyen (Apr 28, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> from what i can gather on youtube it looks like the best paste for desktop PC is kyronaut extreme... i just went to go buy some, and it costs $30 for 2 gram tube.  RIP
> 
> i'll pass



Kingpin KPx is the best, and it cost 30usd for 10g, good stuff.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 28, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Kingpin KPx is the best, and it cost 30usd for 10g, good stuff.



link? I can't find it at that price.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 28, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I'm still working on my methodology and verifying that the readings are consistent. But from what I've seen MX-4 and GD900 perform basically the same, maybe with a tiny 1 degree advantage to GD900. Those are unofficial results so the magnitude of difference might change.


Don't forget to include diaper cream  but only the good stuff (40% zinc oxide) and vaseline.

Price is a big factor
"An engineer can do for a dollar what any fool can do for two."
Arthur Mellen Wellington

OK, I couldn't take it no more... ordered me four 30g pots of GD900 ($3.51 a pot with shipping)


Now I find

GD32 1.0 W/K.m
GD33 1.0
GD66 1.05
GD100 1.094
GD220 1.114
GD280 1.159
GD380 2.2
GD460 2.0
GD450 2.0
GD900 4.8
GD900-1 6


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 1, 2021)

I've run tests on a few different pastes and these were my results after adjusting for 25C ambient temperature:

Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut ($12.00/g) = 52.2C
Arctic MX-4 ($2.20/g) = 52.9C
Kingpin KPX ($6.66/g) = 53.0C
GD900 ($0.15/g) = 54.0C

Mind you that this is running Furmark for 2 minute bursts on an R9 270X (180W TDP with a 212mm2 die area) with fan speed at 100% and I'd estimate that the results are accurate down to around +/- 0.1C. Even after multiple runs, my readings were within 0.1C of each other. I also added the prices I paid for them.

It's pretty obvious that both the budget options (MX-4 and GD900) put on a very good showing. Kryonaut did come out on top so I'll give it credit for that, but the micro-sized pipette of paste is a joke. I thought KPX was okay, but the cost was almost $10/g once you include postage and the temperatures were average.

I was thinking about doing even more testing, but the differences are so minor and it's such a yawn-fest that I reckon I've already seen enough. I will definitely be doing an MX-4 versus MX-5 comparison once my MX-5 finally gets here though, that's a test that definitely needs to happen.


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2021)

Would be nice to include say Vaseline in the tests.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 1, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I've run tests on a few different pastes and these were my results after adjusting for 25C ambient temperature:
> 
> Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut ($12.00/g) = 52.2C
> Arctic MX-4 ($2.20/g) = 52.9C
> ...



keep in mind that is the old kyronaut, kryonaut extreme probably wins another celsius point off.


----------



## nguyen (May 1, 2021)

extreme overclocker Luumi tested some thermal paste from China which I highly recommend (Thermagic ZF-EX, if you can find them cheap enough, only 1C behind Kryonaut Extreme)





In Vietnam I can buy a 2g tube of this Thermagic ZF-EX for 6usd, this paste is highly viscous that ensure it's longevity, especially on GPU and Laptop.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 1, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> If everyone reported relative to an agreed upon 'base standard' things might be comparable, i.e. independent of area, power.
> 
> Perhaps x times better than say SuperLube heatsink compound, or Vaseline



Arctic Silver Alumina states something along those lines:

*          Lower full load core temperatures*
          2 to 10 degrees centigrade lower CPU full load core temperatures than standard thermal compounds or thermal pads.
*          When measured with a calibrated thermal diode imbedded in the CPU core.*

My piece of string is longer than a standard piece of string. Confirmed!



lynx29 said:


> keep in mind that is the old kyronaut, kryonaut extreme probably wins another celsius point off.



Ah, that's probably what they mean when people are discussing old vs new Kryonaut. I wouldn't doubt it's pretty good. Shit's expensive though, it's like $20.00/g and that's way beyond my budget.

UPDATE: I also tested MX-2 and it's performance is totally identical to MX-4. Although the MX-2 is a bit harder to spread but it also costs less ($2.00/g).


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2021)

nguyen said:


> extreme overclocker Luumi tested some thermal paste from China which I highly recommend (Thermagic ZF-EX, if you can find them cheap enough, only 1C behind Kryonaut Extreme)
> 
> View attachment 198730



For me a couple of degrees is not very significant, so only one paste is no good in my opinion.


----------



## nguyen (May 1, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> For me a couple of degrees is not very significant, so only one paste is no good in my opinion.



High quality thermal paste will only make discernable difference in worst case scenario, like GPU with poor stock cooler and laptop, where operating temperature is normally in the 80C range. Using good and highly viscous TIM in this case can shave off 5-15C easily.
But yeah on CPU it really doesn't make any difference though, unless you are deliding older Intel CPU.


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2021)

I have such a video card and GD900 on the way... 5-15C is definitely worth it


----------



## freeagent (May 1, 2021)

If comparing two sets of fresh applications of different pastes, I have a hard time believing 15c. That's like a cooler swap..


----------



## nguyen (May 1, 2021)

freeagent said:


> If comparing two sets of fresh applications of different pastes, I have a hard time believing 15c. That's like a cooler swap..



Liquid metal on the inadequate 1080 cooler can drop temp like 10C









For Laptop it can be up to 20C









Of course this is comparing crappy stock TIM with Liquid Metal, with normal TIM the difference is less, and I wouldn't use LM on bare copper heatsinks on laptop. Although Asus do ship their 2021 laptop with LM pre-applied, even PS5 has LM.


----------



## freeagent (May 1, 2021)

Lol I thought you were talking about TIM not LM.. duh 

Sorry!


----------



## nguyen (May 1, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Lol I thought you were talking about TIM not LM.. duh
> 
> Sorry!



Well Liquid Metal is literally thermal interface material .
Anyways the higher the operating temperature, the bigger difference that high quality TIM will make (that includes LM). So yeah save your most expensive TIM for GPU and Laptop, for CPU it doesn't matter so much.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 1, 2021)

nguyen said:


> High quality thermal paste will only make discernable difference in worst case scenario, like GPU with poor stock cooler and laptop, where operating temperature is normally in the 80C range. Using good and highly viscous TIM in this case can shave off 5-15C easily.
> But yeah on CPU it really doesn't make any difference though, unless you are deliding older Intel CPU.



A lot of users confuse operating temperature with the thermal transfer rate. The problem is that literally any cooling fan can be ramped down until the temperature is at 80C, so temperature does not always signify an extreme use case. 

The reason why the temperature improvements are larger for GPU's and delidded silicon is because of the high thermal transfer rate (high TDP across small die area). That's where a high performing paste will make a big difference.


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2021)

I wish people would include graphite and Indium pads in the TIM comparisons.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 1, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I wish people would include graphite and Indium pads in the TIM comparisons.




graphite always increased my temps by about 4 celsius, sometimes as high as 6 or 7... so i never bothered with that


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2021)

Paste it is then, and GD900 seems a winner if it does not age.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 1, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I wish people would include graphite and Indium pads in the TIM comparisons.


Hi,
Yeah total waste on the IC Graphite thermal pads, I got a 90-90mm box and it was a waste of time and money for sure even the worst paste would do better or maybe even tooth paste would be better lol


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2021)

That's really good to know; saves a lot of time and trouble.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 2, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Paste it is then, and GD900 seems a winner if it does not age.



Spoiler alert, it doesn't. The GD900 application on my 5600X is almost 6 months old and I'm still looking at around 75C under all-core load. I think reviewers running AIO water coolers were getting sort of mid-60's.

The real benefit of GD900 isn't daily use though, it's when you're constantly swapping out processors for testing. It'll take a long-ass time to go through 30g and it costs nothing, so you can basically experiment all you want.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 2, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> The real benefit of GD900 isn't daily use though, it's when you're constantly swapping out processors for testing. It'll take a long-ass time to go through 30g and it costs nothing, so you can basically experiment all you want.


This is a very good point! Does it require time to set, like AS5 does?


----------



## Mussels (May 2, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I'm not so sure one really needs a thermal conductivity much above say 5 W/meter K
> 
> If the power is 100 W, the area 3cm^2 and the thickness 0.05 mm then the temperature drop will be just over 1 C
> 
> I'd rather have a paste that lasts.


5800x would like to have a word with you about heat density


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 2, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> This is a very good point! Does it require time to set, like AS5 does?



I did test that and couldn't find any obvious curing with GD900. On a quad core I recorded [86, 81, 86, 83] degrees with an old application and [86, 83, 86, 83] with a new one. Although keep in mind that I was replacing GD900 on both the heatspreader AND the die itself, so that would take into account the curing for multiple layers. I wouldn't be surprised if GD900 and MX-4 share similar chemistry.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 2, 2021)

I still remember the first time using liquid metal on my gtx 1070 laptop... seeing that 20 celsius drop was insane...

but then i was an idiot and opened it up again to look and make sure it wasn't doing anything bad to the copper... 

and that's when things went south... if I had just left it alone would have been perfect... eh.

it still works and all, but i never did go back to liquid metal.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 2, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> seeing that 20 celsius drop was insane...


WOW! That IS a hellofa drop! The original TIM must have been both crap AND improperly applied!


----------



## Space Lynx (May 2, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> WOW! That IS a hellofa drop! The original TIM must have been both crap AND improperly applied!



liquid metal also benefits laptops more than desktops. i still don't understand the reasoning for that though


----------



## nguyen (May 2, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> liquid metal also benefits laptops more than desktops. i still don't understand the reasoning for that though



Because Thermal conductivity is not a constant figure, it varies with temperature. For Gallium (main component of LM) thermal conductivity increase with higher temperature, and the opposite for zinc oxide (normal paste). 








So LM only works it magic for air cooling and high heat load and not so much for watercooling. On my watercooled 2080Ti, Conductonaut LM reduce temperature by 4C compare to Kryonaut (40C with Conductonaut and 44C with Kryonaut)


----------



## Mussels (May 2, 2021)

heh i just helped a friend liquid metal his laptop and we saw about a 9C drop, but it STILL throttles with CPU and GPU on the same heatsink


----------



## Space Lynx (May 2, 2021)

Mussels said:


> heh i just helped a friend liquid metal his laptop and we saw about a 9C drop, but it STILL throttles with CPU and GPU on the same heatsink



yeah, on my laptop in the BIOS I have all boosts turned off for CPU, i just let the CPU run at a lower wattage with 2.8ghz all 4 cores... and temps never break 65 celsius or so. and honestly games don't even seem to notice.  if i leave BIOS at default, my CPU temps hits 95 celsius... lol

laptops are such crap design and always have been... its really sad


----------



## freeagent (May 2, 2021)

I used to play NFSU on a Toshiba laptop with a P4 that loved to sit at 105c.. what a champ


----------



## Falkentyne (May 2, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I wish people would include graphite and Indium pads in the TIM comparisons.



Indium pads (foil?), never used.  If you mean indium foil, I only remember a few people saying they were going to try them but I never remember any results in the end.  Just sporadic posts about it, and not interested in wasting more money myself on cooling experiments when I'm on fixed income.

Graphite pads: don't even bother if you are an overclocker!  They're only good for stock.  I tested the brand new Panasonic EYG-R and they were already a good 8C worse than Arctic MX-5 on a laptop GTX 1070 MXM card.  On my overclocked 9900k, it reached 100C in one minute in Prime95 small FFT AVX disabled at 5 ghz.  More than 10C worse than MX-5 (So it did worse on the higher wattage chip).

These pads are NOT suitable for overclocking at all.  They perform about the same as a low end thermal paste.  They are good for a "plant and forget" stock system however.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 2, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> liquid metal also benefits laptops more than desktops. i still don't understand the reasoning for that though



My understanding is that the low mounting pressure (i.e. thicker TIM) in laptops is where a higher thermal conductivity makes a big difference.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 2, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> My understanding is that the low mounting pressure (i.e. thicker TIM) in laptops is where a higher thermal conductivity makes a big difference.


I would imagine that is a part of the equation.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 3, 2021)

Hi,
After applying it looks like alien baby crap lol


----------



## Space Lynx (May 3, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> After applying it looks like alien baby crap lol



lmao...


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 7, 2021)

I did a shootout between MX-2, MX-4 and MX-5. Results are very interesting.

This is no ordinary test because I used each paste on the die AND the IHS of a delidded processor. That means that the heat needs to transfer through two applications of the same paste and it really helps to highlight the tiny differences in performance.

Testbench is a delidded 120W TDP Xeon X5460 at 3.6GHz 1.35V with a 6 heatpipe Snowman 92mm dual tower cooler. Fan speeds are at maximum (molex powered). I used HWInfo64 to log data across two-minute runs of the Furmark CPU burner with 1 minute breaks in between. Ambients changed only slightly in the process but I recorded it during each run.

*MX-2* Run 1 (24.3C Ambient) = 70C, 64C, 71C, 70C
*MX-2* Run 2 (24.3C Ambient) = 70C, 64C, 70C, 69C
*MX-2* Run 3 (24.3C Ambient) = 70C, 64C, 70C, 69C

*MX-4* Run 1 (24.5C Ambient) = 73C, 67C, 73C, 72C
*MX-4* Run 2 (24.5C Ambient) = 72C, 67C, 73C, 72C
*MX-4* Run 3 (24.5C Ambient) = 73C, 67C, 73C, 72C

*MX-5* Run 1 (24.7C Ambient) = 71C, 66C, 73C, 70C
*MX-5* Run 2 (24.7C Ambient) = 70C, 64C, 72C, 69C
*MX-5* Run 3 (24.8C Ambient) = 70C, 65C, 72C, 69C

I'll keep conclusions to a minimum but there definitely is a performance improvement with MX-5. Impressive numbers from MX-2 as well.

I also thought that all three pastes were very easy to spread. Wouldn't hesitate using all of them. MX-5 is very light blue in color and is hard to see on paper towel, but that's only a minor downside.


----------



## Shrek (May 7, 2021)

If you have a heat-gun could you bake them to give some sense of how they might hold up with age?

I'm not sure how to test for the so called 'pump out effect'
Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - Bing video


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I did a shootout between MX-2, MX-4 and MX-5. Results are very interesting.
> 
> This is no ordinary test because I used each paste on the die AND the IHS of a delidded processor. That means that the heat needs to transfer through two applications of the same paste and it really helps to highlight the tiny differences in performance.
> 
> ...



I used to have some mx-2... lost it a long time ago. looks like mx-2 beats mx-5.  lol...


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 7, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> If you have a heat-gun could you bake them to give some sense of how they might hold up with age?
> 
> I'm not sure how to test for the so called 'pump out effect'
> Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - Bing video



From what I've seen there doesn't seem to be enough reason to test longevity and it would be very difficult to make a fair test. I'm thinking of testing the curing effect of Arctic Silver 5, but only because it's already well known that curing is necessary to get good performance with ceramic-based pastes. Like Der8auer said it seems like most people confuse pump-out and curing.



lynx29 said:


> I used to have some mx-2... lost it a long time ago. looks like mx-2 beats mx-5.  lol...



On a couple of cores the MX-2 schooled the newer pastes, yeah. I can't remember which tests but I have seen other reviewers post great numbers with MX-2 so I was kind of expecting it to put on a good show.


----------



## crispysilicon (May 7, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I wish people would include graphite and Indium pads in the TIM comparisons.


I have CLU under the lid and Indigo Xtreme on top of my 5775C.

Nothing else comes even close, and it's eternal afaik. I'll finally be taking it apart come Alder Lake (which is getting the spare I bought back then) and I'm very curious to see how it comes apart.



			Indigo Xtreme | Indigo Xtreme ETI | Page 1 | Sort By: Product Title A-Z - FrozenCPU.com


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> On a couple of cores the MX-2 schooled the newer pastes, yeah. I can't remember which tests but I have seen other reviewers post great numbers with MX-2 so I was kind of expecting it to put on a good show.



Seems like a bad company that produces same product but worse 6 years after the best one... or whenever it came out. lol

oh well. at least i know its fresh and i got there in-case of emergency someday.


----------



## fma67 (May 7, 2021)

The usual fight for 1-2-3 degrees that make the difference 
In price also


----------



## r.h.p (May 7, 2021)

jboydgolfer said:


> im curious if anyone who actually should have their hands inside of a PC, has ever damaged something with Arctic Silver5. (rhetorical, im certain a million fools have damaged a million components all in equally ridiculous way)
> ive used the stuff for what 2 decades or so, & ive heard this claim , & im aware of how conductivity can be dangerous to components.
> 
> its just that i get the 'wrist strap' feeling whenever i see someone post about/regarding the 'dangers' of AS5.
> ...



i didnt know as5 is conductive , anyway it never did anything wrong


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 7, 2021)

I re-pasted my GTX 1060 with MX-5 and maximum temperature has gone from 78C down to 74C. From memory I'm pretty sure the old paste was GD900 that has been on there for a good 18 months.

Re-pasting the 5600X yielded less results, it was running GD900 for almost 6 months and it went from 78C down to 76C with MX-5. I'll take that, especially if it lasts the 8 years that they claim.

The MX-5 is definitely my new winner in terms of lower temperatures but damn the GD900 has held on well and removing the old paste was a cinch.


----------



## Shrek (May 7, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Like Der8auer said it seems like most people confuse pump-out and curing.


Doesn't curing prevent pump out?


----------



## Falkentyne (May 10, 2021)

Kryonaut Extreme is a good paste.  Probably 2C better than Thermalright TFX on my r9 290X.  Although TFX was 2C better than regular Kryonaut on a 10900k after one week (started out like 1C worse).
The 290X reference heatsink has pretty decent and even pressure (enough to make a nice indentation in a graphite pad (IC / soft PGS+ (EYG-S), and EYG-R)), so it's no surprise Kryonaut Extreme would like those as Kryonaut always likes surfaces with even, firm mounting pressure.  It's not as good with low mounting pressure though (as shown in the previous links).  Also longevity is definitely an issue if the mounting pressure is not good enough, which I had with Kryonaut Extreme on my 3090 FE when I used Thermalright Odyssey 1.5mm pads on the core side.  TFX lasted longer but even that degraded in a few weeks (core temp delta to core hotspot delta increasing!).  Changing to Gelid Extreme 1.5mm pads, which are much softer, helped maintain much better control over the hotspot delta, but I haven't been able to test that with Kryonaut Extreme yet.

This whole thing really woke me up to how poorly designed the 3090 FE heatsink is.  While it functions very well in heat movement, the design is actually atrocious.  The only thing that screws the PCB to the heatsink when mounting the PCB on are the four leaf spring Torx screws.  Since these are not spring loaded like the smaller X-bracket of the Radeon cards (the screws themselves are much better, unlike the "strip me" screws on the reference AMD heatsinks!!), this means that the the only thing pushing the GPU Core and PCB on is just that bracket!  That means that there is absolutely no help with the memory pad compression whatsoever and that creates a major problem if you don't use the correct thermal pads, with a high softness.  Yes, the backplate helps the edge of the PCB screw into the heatsink, but screws only on the very edge do absolutely nothing to the resistance caused by thermal pads surrounding the core!

Compare this to the AMD R9 290X reference.  There you have like 12 screws all around the PCB, helping the PCB get very firmly secured all around the thermal pads of the VRAM and VRM's.  Even though the Vega 64 has fewer screws there's still plenty to insure the VRAM pads get great contact.  You get some really big indentions on Arctic thermal pad replacements (on Vega 64, a small section needs 1.5mm or 2mm on VRM's, the rest 1.0mm).  If the FE actually had more screws, then there wouldn't be these problems at all.  There really need to be 6 screws around the VRAM/VRM area of the 3090 FE / 3080 FE cards, just like AMD did it, then there would be no complaints at all.

Anyway,

MX-5 is a couple of C worse than Kryonaut / TFX on a desktop and a r9 290X, but it definitely should not be used with low mounting pressure (laptop video card may be fine but BGA CPU is probably asking for trouble, just like MX-4..  Kryonaut starts off well on any laptop and is great on the GPU, but pumps out fast on a CPU.  Kryonaut Extreme is still really too new for these tests, but I already know from my 3090 FE that it doesn't do well with low pressure and a convex GPU core! (again I haven't tested it since switching to more compressible pads, which allowed better pressure on the core->heatsink).






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----------



## lexluthermiester (May 10, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> but it definitely should not be used with low mounting pressure


And why is this?


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 10, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Don't forget to include diaper cream  but only the good stuff (40% zinc oxide) and vaseline.
> 
> Price is a big factor
> "An engineer can do for a dollar what any fool can do for two."
> ...



I tried the newer GD900-1 version with the 6.0W/m2 thermal conductivity and it's pretty bad. It performs noticeably worse than the regular GD900.

*GD900* Run 1 (Ambient 26.9C) = 77C, 74C, 80C, 78C
*GD900* Run 2 (Ambient 26.8C) = 78C, 75C, 81C, 79C
*GD900* Run 3 (Ambient 26.8C) = 79C, 76C, 82C, 80C

*GD900-1* Run 1 (Ambient 27.0C) = 81C, 77C, 84C, 83C (NOTE: Core 2 thermal throttled at 84C)
*GD900-1* Run 2 (Ambient 26.8C) = 80C, 77C, 84C, 82C (NOTE: Core 2 thermal throttled at 84C)
*GD900-1* Run 3 (Ambient 26.6C) = 81C, 79C, 84C, 82C (NOTE: Core 2 thermal throttled at 84C)

Once again, it proves that the thermal conductivity value itself provided by thermal paste manufacturers means squat.

Of course I'm running the paste on both the die and IHS of my X5460 so any differences will be more pronounced, but it's still a huge difference. The GD900-1 paste is definitely more solid in consistency and harder to spread than the regular GD900. I have no doubt that the GD900-1 I received is the real product and not counterfeit. GD900 wins hands down and it's ridiculously cheaper, no competition.


----------



## nguyen (May 10, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I tried the newer GD900-1 version with the 6.0W/m2 thermal conductivity and it's pretty bad. It performs noticeably worse than the regular GD900.
> 
> *GD900* Run 1 (Ambient 26.9C) = 77C, 74C, 80C, 78C
> *GD900* Run 2 (Ambient 26.8C) = 78C, 75C, 81C, 79C
> ...



Can you try again the GD900-1 and this time heat it up with a hairdryer before mounting the cooler? this would soften the paste and make it spread easier, create less resistance when tightening the screws --> less gap between CPU and cooler.


----------



## Athlonite (May 10, 2021)

r.h.p said:


> i didnt know as5 is conductive , anyway it never did anything wrong


It's not conductive at all although it is ever so slightly capacitive



jboydgolfer said:


> im curious if anyone who actually should have their hands inside of a PC, has ever damaged something with Arctic Silver5. (rhetorical, im certain a million fools have damaged a million components all in equally ridiculous way)
> ive used the stuff for what 2 decades or so, & ive heard this claim , & im aware of how conductivity can be dangerous to components.
> 
> its just that i get the 'wrist strap' feeling whenever i see someone post about/regarding the 'dangers' of AS5.
> ...



1: Artic Silver five is non conductive ( Although it is ever so slightly capacitive) so unless you use an entire tube of it you should never see a problem 
2: Denatured water ie: water that has all of it's impurities removed so you're left with just pure H2O is also non conductive ( it's the impurities that make water conductive)


----------



## Falkentyne (May 10, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> And why is this?



Because it's not thick and will end up pumping out due to natural heat related expansion / contraction cycles (you need a thick paste to fight against this).
The only paste that is good against imbalanced pressure like this is IC Diamond.

Naturally the best solution is to fix the mounting pressure or otherwise make the surfaces flat (sanding the heatsink, or if you have the courage, cpu/gpu die, if it's convex, etc)


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 10, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Because it's not thick and will end up pumping out due to natural heat related expansion / contraction cycles (you need a thick paste to fight against this).
> The only paste that is good against imbalanced pressure like this is IC Diamond.
> 
> Naturally the best solution is to fix the mounting pressure or otherwise make the surfaces flat (sanding the heatsink, or if you have the courage, cpu/gpu die, if it's convex, etc)


I have never seen this with any paste, ever. I'm certain it's not going to be a problem, whether short or long term. Given how sticky MX-5 is, it seems very unlikely to flex and flow like you suggest.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 10, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I have never seen this with any paste, ever. I'm certain it's not going to be a problem, whether short or long term. Given how sticky MX-5 is, it seems very unlikely to flex and flow like you suggest.



Plenty of people have.  Check notebookreview forums.  This has been discussed to death already but countless people.  If you bother to do a search, you'll see it all over.  In the Alienware threads, MSI GT73VR threads, the thermal paste hardware discussion threads, it's all over.

And I've seen it on my 3090 FE when I used too hard (not compressible enough, even though they were correct thickness) thermal pads.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 10, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Plenty of people have. Check notebookreview forums. This has been discussed to death already but countless people. If you bother to do a search, you'll see it all over. In the Alienware threads, MSI GT73VR threads, the thermal paste hardware discussion threads, it's all over.


I'm all over the place on the net and have never seen such a discussion. Got an example?


----------



## toilet pepper (May 10, 2021)

The new Hardware Canucks video about Induim is interesting. The ihs imprinted on the indium pad and it performs like an mx4.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 10, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> The new Hardware Canucks video about Induim is interesting. The ihs imprinted on the indium pad and it performs like an mx4.



was this on a laptop or desktop?


----------



## Falkentyne (May 11, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I'm all over the place on the net and have never seen such a discussion. Got an example?


I'm sorry but I'm not going to search threads for you.  You'll have to do that yourself.
Just put in the work and look on notebookreview.  There's a big megathread on thermal paste in the general hardware section.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 11, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> I'm sorry but I'm not going to search threads for you. You'll have to do that yourself.


Ok, then. Not gonna bother. Been using and installing TIM products for decades and have never seen, read or heard about the behavior you described. I have some MX-5 and am not seeing it with that either. So you do you. The rest of us will carry on unabated..


lynx29 said:


> was this on a laptop or desktop?


My guess is desktop as laptop & mobile CPU's don't have IHS plates.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 11, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Because it's not thick and will end up pumping out due to natural heat related expansion / contraction cycles (you need a thick paste to fight against this).
> The only paste that is good against imbalanced pressure like this is IC Diamond.
> 
> Naturally the best solution is to fix the mounting pressure or otherwise make the surfaces flat (sanding the heatsink, or if you have the courage, cpu/gpu die, if it's convex, etc)


Isn't it the other way around, IC Diamond drying out over time?
OP: your thread is a huge let down. Do review in the future when you say so.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 11, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Isn't it the other way around, IC Diamond drying out over time?
> OP: your thread is a huge let down. Do review in the future when you say so.



Sorry I was hired by two jobs post making thread... sorry for getting my life together and not thinking it would happen that fast. lol mmk.  As I said, just to tired or don't have the time now. Went hiking with family Saturday, for my day off. Had I known I would be so busy in short amount of time I would not have made thread.


----------



## toilet pepper (May 11, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, then. Not gonna bother. Been using and installing TIM products for decades and have never seen, read or heard about the behavior you described. I have some MX-5 and am not seeing it with that either. So you do you. The rest of us will carry on unabated..
> 
> My guess is desktop as laptop & mobile CPU's don't have IHS plates.











They did it on a desktop with an i5-10400. I wonder how it would pair on a ryzen?


----------



## Shrek (May 11, 2021)

Indium pads are quite cheap on ebay

$1 vs. $10 Reusable Thermal Pad Benchmarks: No-Name, IC Diamond, & Carbonaut - YouTube

I believe the no name is Indium


----------



## Athlonite (May 11, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Indium pads are quite cheap on ebay



I'd be very weary of buy this sort of thing off of ebay you may get anything from tinfoil to lead


----------



## Shrek (May 11, 2021)

Too late for me... I have 120g of GD900 on the way...


----------



## Falkentyne (May 11, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Isn't it the other way around, IC Diamond drying out over time?
> OP: your thread is a huge let down. Do review in the future when you say so.



I haven't done research on IC diamond's longevity as I've never used it and don't plan on buying it.
I Just finished just now swapping the TFX out for Kryonaut Extreme on my GTX 1070.
(again the only reason I haven't done that on my 3090 FE is because I can't get the backplate off (Gelid pads squishy problems) and I don't want to risk forcing it off on an out of stock video card).
When I did have Kryo Extreme on my 3090 FE, I had Thermalright Odyssey pads on and the contact pressure was bad, and the Kryo Extreme degraded by 5C in a week.


----------



## Mussels (May 11, 2021)

TPU hates IC diamond with a passion, after their CEO came on here being an ass when it was damaging products and made weird comments about killing peoples grandmas, and threatening lawsuits.

Yeah, it was fun times.


----------



## Shrek (May 11, 2021)

5°C in a week!

You are scaring the kids!


----------



## nguyen (May 11, 2021)

Tried Kryonaut on 1080Ti FE and it pumped out in 3 months, on my Acer Triton 500 laptop the Kryonaut pumped out in 2 weeks (10-15C worse)
For watercooling Kryonaut should be fine, just not in high temperature environment.

I have been an advocate for TFX for months, it's nice that plenty of other laptop users came to the same findings


----------



## Falkentyne (May 11, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> 5C in a week!
> 
> You are scaring the kids!



Yes.  The thermalright odyssey pads were too stiff and not compressible enough on the 3090 FE (heatsink design problem--there are simply not enough screws to attach the PCB firmly to the heatsink, just the leaf spring and one screw by the PCIE slot thermal pad....and the screws at the very edge for the backplate...YIKES) so the contact pressure on the core was extremely weak (at this time there was no "Core hotspot" sensor in HWinfo64.  With TFX I also noticed a rise in temps but it took longer to happen, and I noticed the core hotspot delta change from 11C to 16C in three weeks).  Another user on the Nvidia subreddit noticed after a few months, his core to core hotspot delta was over 20C, so he ordered some Gelid pads also.

If the mounting pressure is bad, every paste is going to pump out.  I don't mean DRY Out or separate, I mean pump out.  That's basic high school physics.  Heat expands, cold contracts.  When mounting pressure is very weak, you get expansion+contraction, paste starts shifting around instead of staying in one spot.  Combine this with a super convex Ampere GPU core, what do you think is going to happen?  Magic?  The bad pastes will separate into oil + dried useless whatever though.

I have a LOT of different amounts of thermal paste, and still over 100 grams of Liquid Metal (Galinstan).

Now that I switched to Gelid Extreme pads, the delta (core to core hotspot) has only changed about 0.5C in 2 and a half weeks, which is a hell of a lot better than 5C.

I have not seen any problem with Kryonaut Extreme on my desktop CPU's or my radeon r9 290X.  Testing it now on my MXM GTX 1070 now.

-----------

For the people who are too lazy to do their own searching and want me to do their work for them:






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(there are many other threads in the Alienware and MSI subgroups.  Find them yourself).

Kryonaut Extreme vs TFX is strange.
Seems that Kryonaut Extreme needs good mounting pressure since it's not as thick.

Kryonaut Extreme vs TFX:
Radeon R9 290X: 81C vs 83C (80% fan speed, Valley benchmark, bad ambients (section 8 apartment, sorry, don't expect much)
Kryonaut Extreme 2C better than TFX (mounting pressure seems really flat)

Geforce GTX 1070 MXM (laptop), Heaven benchmark.  TDP modded @ 230W
72C vs 71C (TFX 1C better).
Arctic MX-5 is 73C.

I guess that goes in line with this laptop results chart.






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----------



## zero989z (May 11, 2021)

Looks underwhelming

Only pastes worth buying seem to be Grizzly Kryonaut+Kryonaut Extreme, Thermalright TF8/FX, Kingpin, Liquid Ultra/Gallium


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> TPU hates IC diamond with a passion


Not just TPU, some of us remember scratches on our CPU dies, including a QX9300 of mine that was killed by IC Diamond cracking the die. Aholes.. I'm going to refrain from further comment...


----------



## Space Lynx (May 11, 2021)

I have never heard of Thermalright TFX... interesting. I wish I had seen this chart sooner... I'm tempted to get some TFX now, its still much cheaper than kryonaut extreme...

edit: tfx has a lot of bad reviews on amazon and newegg... nm maybe I will just sell my mx-5 and save up for some kryonaut extreme... thats an 8 celsius difference according to that chart


----------



## Falkentyne (May 11, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I have never heard of Thermalright TFX... interesting. I wish I had seen this chart sooner... I'm tempted to get some TFX now, its still much cheaper than kryonaut extreme...
> 
> edit: tfx has a lot of bad reviews on amazon and newegg... nm maybe I will just sell my mx-5 and save up for some kryonaut extreme... thats an 8 celsius difference according to that chart



The bad reviews are from people who don't know how to use it.
TFX is the same paste as Thermagic ZF-EX (same factory), and almost everyone gives that good reviews on Aliexpress.
Just don't try to spread it.  Use an X pattern (with drops in quadrants to insure full coverage) or use a 9 large drop on IHS heatspreader/large GPU die method, or 9 smaller drops on smaller GPU die.

Kryonaut Extreme 2g has even worse reviews than TFX.  Just buy the TFX.  Get the 6.2g one ideally because you get more for your money.  2 grams goes very fast

If you don't mind waiting for the slow boat from China, buy the ZF-EX from whichever Aliexpress shop is cheapest or gives a discount if you buy 5 or more at once, then it's about $24 for 6 grams (ZF-EX) rather than $40 for 6.2 grams (TFX)


----------



## nguyen (May 11, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> The bad reviews are from people who don't know how to use it.
> TFX is the same paste as Thermagic ZF-EX (same factory), and almost everyone gives that good reviews on Aliexpress.
> Just don't try to spread it.  Use an X pattern (with drops in quadrants to insure full coverage) or use a 9 large drop on IHS heatspreader/large GPU die method, or 9 smaller drops on smaller GPU die.
> 
> ...



Exactly, TFX is impossible to spread manually, I just use the 5 dots (1 big center and 4 small corners), heat it up with a hairdryer and mount the cooler. Because of how viscous TFX is, I reckon people didn't put enough of it or didn't tighten down the cooler enough.
Overall TFX or ZF-EX should perform within margin of error to Kryonaut and Kingpin KPx with guaranteed longevity as a huge bonus.


----------



## bobbybluz (May 11, 2021)

I've been using Gelid CG Extreme for years and am not switching to anything else for my own PC's with AIO's. MX-4 is what I've been using on GPU's and for short-term mountings of AIO's that may soon be replaced. I already have an inventory of various pastes on hand but stick with what I know works well for my own needs.


----------



## Borc (May 11, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> I haven't done research on IC diamond's longevity as I've never used it and don't plan on buying it.
> I Just finished just now swapping the TFX out for Kryonaut Extreme on my GTX 1070.
> (again the only reason I haven't done that on my 3090 FE is because I can't get the backplate off (Gelid pads squishy problems) and I don't want to risk forcing it off on an out of stock video card).
> When I did have Kryo Extreme on my 3090 FE, I had Thermalright Odyssey pads on and the contact pressure was bad, and the Kryo Extreme degraded by 5C in a week.




Did you try Kingpin KPx? This is a good GPU paste I've heard.


----------



## Hankieroseman (May 11, 2021)

jboydgolfer said:


> my tube of MX-5 is arriving today.
> 
> *notice i splurged & spent the extra cheddar for the spatula!!*
> View attachment 191178
> ...



My old American Airlines coffee stir stick works so well spreading the paste like the McDonald's  plastic stir stick.


----------



## Shrek (May 11, 2021)

I got lucky and my eBay GD900 comes with a spatula


----------



## GerKNG (May 11, 2021)

i have the MX5 now since two weeks on a 10900K (5.1 GHz, 4.8 GHz Cache at 1.4V (1.32V under load)
it did not deteriorate so far compared to MX4 which turns into soup after around 8-10 days on that CPU.


----------



## Shrek (May 11, 2021)

Longevity is everything to me; no sense gaining one degree only to have it and more lost after a few months.


----------



## sneekypeet (May 11, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Yes.  The thermalright odyssey pads were too stiff and not compressible enough on the 3090 FE (heatsink design problem--there are simply not enough screws to attach the PCB firmly to the heatsink, just the leaf spring and one screw by the PCIE slot thermal pad....and the screws at the very edge for the backplate...YIKES) so the contact pressure on the core was extremely weak (at this time there was no "Core hotspot" sensor in HWinfo64.  With TFX I also noticed a rise in temps but it took longer to happen, and I noticed the core hotspot delta change from 11C to 16C in three weeks).  Another user on the Nvidia subreddit noticed after a few months, his core to core hotspot delta was over 20C, so he ordered some Gelid pads also.
> 
> If the mounting pressure is bad, every paste is going to pump out.  I don't mean DRY Out or separate, I mean pump out.  That's basic high school physics.  Heat expands, cold contracts.  When mounting pressure is very weak, you get expansion+contraction, paste starts shifting around instead of staying in one spot.  Combine this with a super convex Ampere GPU core, what do you think is going to happen?  Magic?  The bad pastes will separate into oil + dried useless whatever though.
> 
> ...



Please link where any of that information comes from, with testing methodology please?

All I see are lists of things with no bearing on reality.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 12, 2021)

sneekypeet said:


> Please link where any of that information comes from, with testing methodology please?
> 
> All I see are lists of things with no bearing on reality.



I tested it myself.  What exactly do you want me to do?  And some things are simply common sense.  I've been building computers and overclocking for over 20 years.  Do you think I don't know how screws and leaf springs work?  Seriously?

And since you don't seem to know who I am:






						Maximus 13 and Rocket Lake: The Rules have Changed.
					

Thanks to Asus and the wizard Shamino for allowing me to test drive their Maximus 13 Extreme and RKL 11900k sample for this user guide.    Welcome to a strange time in PC land.  Where scalpers, miners, scammers and the pandemic have changed a landscape that was once standard fare and far too...



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Are you going to fedex me some equipment or some extra thermal paste and pads so I can test things according to how you want things tested?  I'm on section 8 and SSI and disabled.  I am not rich and I do not have testing equipment.  I only have my own hard work.
I apologize if that isn't enough for you.  You're free to accept that or discard that at your whim.


----------



## sneekypeet (May 12, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> I tested it myself.  What exactly do you want me to do?  And some things are simply common sense.  I've been building computers and overclocking for over 20 years.  Do you think I don't know how screws and leaf springs work?  Seriously?
> 
> And since you don't seem to know who I am:
> 
> ...



First, I'm not sure that who you are makes any difference.

Second, it seems you had all the things you needed to test, not sure why there is so much attitude.

Third, I want to know what the ambient temps were, what was the humidity, is this in a confined area, the list goes on and on.....I want some info on methodology is all.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 12, 2021)

sneekypeet said:


> First, I'm not sure that who you are makes any difference.
> 
> Second, it seems you had all the things you needed to test, not sure why there is so much attitude.
> 
> Third, I want to know what the ambient temps were, what was the humidity, is this in a confined area, the list goes on and on.....I want some info on methodology is all.


It's in a low income section 8 apartment in the desert.  Ambients are atrocious. Like 30C (86F).


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 12, 2021)

@Falkentyne
Going to side with Sneeky here. You're a relative unknown in this forum and you came in making statements without offering any merit and in direct contradiction to experiences most people here have had. If you want people to take you seriously, you have to offer something with merit for them to reference.

We welcome information and experience users have to offer, but you need to be able to offer examples to what you're stating. Pictures & screenshots always work. Just showing your testing methodology is helpful.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 12, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> @Falkentyne
> Going to side with Sneeky here. You're a relative unknown in this forum and you came in making statements without offering any merit and in direct contradiction to experiences most people here have had. If you want people to take you seriously, you have to offer something with merit for them to reference.
> 
> We welcome information and experience users have to offer, but you need to be able to offer examples to what you're stating. Pictures & screenshots always work. Just showing your testing methodology is helpful.



I've written a number of guides for shunt mods and repasting on video cards.  What pictures do you want ? I'm not going to take apart my card just for you people.  No offense.  I'm not paid for my work.  And unlike most of you, I do NOT have money to throw around when I've been on the street and homeless half my life and am STILL IN trouble and fighting a painful disability that is slowly killing me.

P.S  I've been on this forum longer than you.  I just don't post here very much.  I just read.

Feel free to search my previous posts on overclock.net and reddit.
If you guys don't like or appreciate my work, just ban me.  I'll take my services elsewhere because there are plenty of people that appreciate my hard work.
I am NOT rich.  I am NOT like most of you people who have cars, jobs, husbands, wives, luxurious houses with central AC and so on.  And I am not here to make friends.  I post my findings.  Accept them or leave them, it's entirely up to you. 

Have a nice day.


----------



## Mussels (May 12, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> I've written a number of guides for shunt mods and repasting on video cards.  What pictures do you want ? I'm not going to take apart my card just for you people.  No offense.  I'm not paid for my work.  And unlike most of you, I do NOT have money to throw around when I've been on the street and homeless half my life and am STILL IN trouble and fighting a painful disability that is slowly killing me.
> 
> P.S  I've been on this forum longer than you.  I just don't post here very much.  I just read.
> 
> ...


Cut the hostility and stop making assumptions about people, i'm a disabled single dad here myself, looking after my even more disabled dad.
All thats been asked is for you to back up your claims, you dont have a reputation here for people to blindly trust what you say.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 12, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Cut the hostility and stop making assumptions about people, i'm a disabled single dad here myself, looking after my even more disabled dad.
> All thats been asked is for you to back up your claims, you dont have a reputation here for people to blindly trust what you say.


He is Falkentyne. He collaborated with Benq on their fps monitor.

PS: I inquired before that we should have a hardware section for monitors in TPU. I repeat my petition.


----------



## Borc (May 12, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> @Falkentyne
> Going to side with Sneeky here. You're a relative unknown in this forum and you came in making statements without offering any merit and in direct contradiction to experiences most people here have had. If you want people to take you seriously, you have to offer something with merit for them to reference.
> 
> We welcome information and experience users have to offer, but you need to be able to offer examples to what you're stating. Pictures & screenshots always work. Just showing your testing methodology is helpful.



He is active in a lot of forums, I have seen him writing about thermal paste in several forums with high background about this stuff, he tested a lot. If he is unknown to you it's obvious you are a newbie. This is a forum and not review page, he basically is sharing his experience. If you are not fine with his findings from someone, just ignore it and move on.


----------



## maxfly (May 12, 2021)

Ive got a novel idea. How about we stop trying to insult each other like a group of poorly behaved 1st graders and get back on topic. Which was, oh my goodness would you look at the thread title! Not thermal paste in general. Not my personal findings with gobledegoop on notebooks. Or high pressure pump out or... Nope, not any of these off topic things more appropriately added to a NEW thermal paste thread but wooooow its been so long we forgot what the thread was originally about MX-5.


----------



## freeagent (May 12, 2021)

He was the first one to agree with me that TFX is awesome 

I've seem him around for years. He seems like a nice guy to me.


----------



## phanbuey (May 12, 2021)

freeagent said:


> He was the first one to agree with me that TFX is awesome
> 
> I've seem him around for years. He seems like a nice guy to me.



But definitely not rich.


----------



## freeagent (May 12, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> But definitely not rich.


Are you referring to the Section 8 apt?

It sounds.. adventurous!


----------



## Shrek (May 12, 2021)

We seem to make such a big deal about thermal conductivity but leave out the wet-ability and its effect on temperature drop.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 12, 2021)

Borc said:


> If he is unknown to you it's obvious you are a newbie.


That statement coming from a user who has posted all of 19 comments on TPU in 9 years is not very meaningful. Nor does it carry much merit. And as someone else mentioned....


maxfly said:


> Ive got a novel idea. How about we stop trying to insult each other like a group of poorly behaved 1st graders and get back on topic.


... this. 

On that note, the tube of MX-5 that I ordered is already gone(used up in the shop). I'm going to order another tube to do some more in depth testing. While I think the claims made about it's "drippiness" are silly and unfounded, the scientist part of me wonders about it.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 12, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> @Falkentyne
> Going to side with Sneeky here. You're a relative unknown in this forum and you came in making statements without offering any merit and in direct contradiction to experiences most people here have had. If you want people to take you seriously, you have to offer something with merit for them to reference.
> 
> We welcome information and experience users have to offer, but you need to be able to offer examples to what you're stating. Pictures & screenshots always work. Just showing your testing methodology is helpful.


Hi,
Barking up the wrong tree bud he does not post screen shots or images of disassembled hardware he says he has or sub benchmarks either
Like most people this is a automatic why not seeing cellphones are well past mainstream and have better cameras than most people have lol 
Only image I've ever seen him post was plagiarized from someone else and was really just a troll response to ridicule someone that he didn't like the question they asked.


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (May 13, 2021)

Are their any actual tests in this forum


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 13, 2021)

Isaac` said:


> Are their any actual tests in this forum


There will be, I've just volunteered above. Will post pictures and results in a few weeks. Had to order more MX-5 and it'll take me a week or so for proper testing. 

More to come...


----------



## Shrek (May 13, 2021)

I'm like a broken record...

Can you include (for a baseline)

* Vaseline
* Diaper cream (Maximum strength: 40% Zinc oxide)

all very cheap.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 13, 2021)

Hankieroseman said:


> My old American Airlines coffee stir stick works so well spreading the paste like the McDonald's  plastic stir stick.



if that is a real picture of you, your mustache is glorious beyond measure. lol



GerKNG said:


> i have the MX5 now since two weeks on a 10900K (5.1 GHz, 4.8 GHz Cache at 1.4V (1.32V under load)
> it did not deteriorate so far compared to MX4 which turns into soup after around 8-10 days on that CPU.



I got a EVGA 280mm AIO upgrade coming in mail tomorrow, was on sale half price direct from EVGA. $55 shipped.  insane good deal. So I will be trying out my MX-5 soon. no comparison tests still, but regardless I don't want to use the stock paste. hoping to see at least 5-10 celsius improvement across the board going from my current air cooler to water. so that's all I'm looking for right now. I hope it works out.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 13, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I'm like a broken record...


No worries. I know how you feel sometimes..



Andy Shiekh said:


> Can you include (for a baseline)


Let's look at this list...



Andy Shiekh said:


> * Vaseline


No. Don't have any, not gonna buy any, don't want to try anyway. Just sounds silly. I'm not willing to do that to one of my personal systems.



Andy Shiekh said:


> * Diaper cream (40% Zinc oxide)


No. Again, I'm not willing to do that to one of my personal systems.



Andy Shiekh said:


> * GD900


Actually, I have something very similar which I use for PC's I work on. That is the TIM I'll use as a baseline.

I'm also going to use the automotive copper grease that I was testing on one of my Dell system for nearly a year.. For giggles..


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 13, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> but you get the idea.


I do, and the that might be over complicating things a bit.

My plan is to test the baseline TIM(idle + load), then test the Copper Grease, then test MX-5 and post screen shots and the resulting numbers. Gonna keep it simple.



Andy Shiekh said:


> then a 50/50 mix of the two.


This though. Never tried that. I just might for giggles.


----------



## Shrek (May 13, 2021)

Looking forward to the results, especially the copper anti-seize grease.


----------



## Hankieroseman (May 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> if that is a real picture of you, your mustache is glorious beyond measure. lol
> 
> 
> 
> I got a EVGA 280mm AIO upgrade coming in mail tomorrow, was on sale half price direct from EVGA. $55 shipped.  insane good deal. So I will be trying out my MX-5 soon. no comparison tests still, but regardless I don't want to use the stock paste. hoping to see at least 5-10 celsius improvement across the board going from my current air cooler to water. so that's all I'm looking for right now. I hope it works out.


A couple of years ago. Covid and masks and shit. It was a pain in the ass



Andy Shiekh said:


> Looking forward to the results, especially the copper anti-seize grease.


That's good stuff for bolt and nut threads.


----------



## Caring1 (May 13, 2021)

I wouldn't suggest copper anti-seize as a thermal compound as it becomes runny at high temps compared to it's state at room temps.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 13, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> I wouldn't suggest copper anti-seize as a thermal compound as it becomes runny at high temps compared to it's state at room temps.


I used it for nearly a year and it worked just fine. But I want to compare it in a results based test.


----------



## GerKNG (May 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I got a EVGA 280mm AIO upgrade coming in mail tomorrow, was on sale half price direct from EVGA. $55 shipped.  insane good deal. So I will be trying out my MX-5 soon. no comparison tests still, but regardless I don't want to use the stock paste. hoping to see at least 5-10 celsius improvement across the board going from my current air cooler to water. so that's all I'm looking for right now. I hope it works out.


MX5 is pretty much identical to NT-H2 since i replaced it with the MX5

Just use a little bit more paste than usual because the paste spreads very little compared to others.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 13, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> I wouldn't suggest copper anti-seize as a thermal compound as it becomes runny at high temps compared to it's state at room temps.



Depends on the manufacturer, the type of anti-seize, the quality. Some might but generally it's impossible to make a blanket statement for anti-seize/grease products because there's so many variants. For example some anti-seize products use MoS2 as the friction-reducing component, but MoS2 is a thermal insulator not a conductor. So they both might function great as an anti-seize but they're quite different when evaluating their other properties.

@lexluthermiester and I have tested copper anti-seize as a TIM but I didn't have the same luck he did. I tried three brands and none of them worked. I'm sure that some of them work as a TIM but it's so hit-and-miss because thermal conductivity isn't a core priority for anti-seize products. But that's the risk of using products outside of their intended conditions of use.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 13, 2021)

Guru3D Thermal Paste Roundup - Round 2 (2021)
					

It has been almost two years since we made part 1 of Thermal Paste Roundup. You gave us good feedback for it; thus, we have prepared the second round of that article. As a short reminder - you should already know that the TIM (thermal insulation material) is often overlooked when setting up the...




					www.guru3d.com
				




just posted today it looks like. looks neat and on topic lol

looks like the original kryonaut (non-extreme) is the best value overall. $10... and much better than MX-5 when on air cooler... with the AMD chip... with Intel the difference is much less... very odd...

and non-conductive. hmm.

anyone want to buy my big tube of mx-5 for like 8 bucks free ship? lol


----------



## yotano211 (May 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Guru3D Thermal Paste Roundup - Round 2 (2021)
> 
> 
> It has been almost two years since we made part 1 of Thermal Paste Roundup. You gave us good feedback for it; thus, we have prepared the second round of that article. As a short reminder - you should already know that the TIM (thermal insulation material) is often overlooked when setting up the...
> ...


I guess you dont like it.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Guru3D Thermal Paste Roundup - Round 2 (2021)
> 
> 
> It has been almost two years since we made part 1 of Thermal Paste Roundup. You gave us good feedback for it; thus, we have prepared the second round of that article. As a short reminder - you should already know that the TIM (thermal insulation material) is often overlooked when setting up the...
> ...


Those results look weird. It would seem they didn't test MX-5 on the Intel side of things. Wondering why not...


----------



## bobbybluz (May 14, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Those results look weird. It would seem they didn't test MX-5 on the Intel side of things. Wondering why not...


No Gelid GC Extreme tested either, usually one of the best pastes.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 14, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Looking forward to the results, especially the copper anti-seize grease.



Innovation cooling seems to be selling the EYG-R pads (softer than the older EYG-S) in a 5 pack now.  They say they are one time use only, while the original IC pads are reusable.
(originals: https://www.amazon.com/Innovation-Cooling-Graphite-Thermal-Pad/dp/B07CKVW18G)



			Amazon.com
		


I tested both of the pads on a R9 290X (reference blower) and could see no difference.  Both were 5C worse than Arctic MX-5 looping Valley benchmark (86C, at 32C ambient).
Both made my i9-9900k throttle at 5 ghz @ 1.280v load (VR VOUT) in Prime95 small FFT (AVX disabled).  (TFX and Kryonaut Extreme and MX-5 were all within 1C of each other on a NH-D15 + 2x Silent Wings 140mm fans).  I used to run my NH-D15 with 2x Noctua 3000 RPM industrial fans (full speed) which would keep Prime95 around 85C, but now all of my industrial fans are in my case and the last two I put into my Eisbaer Extreme 280 AIO which is sitting idle (because the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 outperforms it).

Anyway if you care about long term reliability, you can try these pads.  They can't possibly be worse than GD900.

Note: you will probably save money if you bought the pads directly from digikey.  They are in 0.25mm and 0.35mm variants, as I think you get a 100mm * 100mm square.


----------



## Kissamies (May 14, 2021)

Picked up a syringe as well at last. Haven't tested yet tho as I'm too lazy to uninstall the waterblock (and GPU cooler) for a possible few C drop over MX-2.


----------



## 95Viper (May 14, 2021)

Stay on topic.
Stop the insults and personal attacks.
Discuss the topic... not each other!
Be civil.

Thank You
And, be kind to others. Karma is known to bite back.


----------



## Shrek (May 14, 2021)

On the related topic of longevity; part of the shelf life of thermal grease might be separation of the silicone oil and filler. Seems to me better to get a tub rather than syringe as one can remix with a tub.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 14, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> On the related topic of longevity; part of the shelf life of thermal grease might be separation of the silicone oil and filler. Seems to me better to get a tub rather than syringe as one can remix with a tub.



On same hand, I really don't need any paste other than like maybe one change every 2-3 years. I suppose it depends how much you own though yeah.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 20, 2021)

Ok folks, MX-5 is in the house once again and the testing begins this weekend! (I have to make some time.)




Sorry for the crappy image, my phone camera isn't the best..


----------



## Kissamies (May 20, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok folks, MX-5 is in the house once again and the testing begins this weekend! (I have to make some time.)
> View attachment 201051
> Sorry for the crappy image, my phone camera isn't the best..


Didn't even know that there's a version with that spatula, mine doesn't seem to have one (still unopened on its box). Those are kinda useless if you ask me. 

I could finally test the paste though by repasting my HD 7970, I just need to run Superposition few times to see how it warms up with that paste it has now..


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 20, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> Didn't even know that there's a version with that spatula, mine doesn't seem to have one (still unopened on its box).


I didn't actively choose it, but I think I'll try it.



Chloe Price said:


> I just need to run Superposition few times to see how it warms up with that paste it has now..


Thinking I'm just going to use Prime95 to do the testing this weekend.


----------



## Kissamies (May 20, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Thinking I'm just going to use Prime95 to do the testing this weekend.


Too lazy to take the block/pump unit of my Eisbaer just to repaste the CPU, it has MX-2 now and it's fine.


----------



## GerKNG (May 20, 2021)

i've now finished testing my 4 week long application on my 6900XT merc 319 black edition.
the paste survived the 340W powerlimit with no issues and performs identical compared to the day of application.
and it beats Noctua NT-H2 by around 3°C on the Hotspot and 2°C on the Edge temperature at the same ambient temperature and fan speed.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 20, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> i now finished tested my 4 week long application on my 6900XT merc 319 black edition.
> the paste survived the 340W powerlimit with no issues and performs identical compared to the day of application.
> and it beats Noctua NT-H2 by around 3°C on the Hotspot and 2°C on the Edge temperature at the same ambient temperature and fan speed.


That's intense! I'm not doing anything like that, wondering if I should even bother with testing now. 

What do you all say? Would everyone like me to still run the testing as planned?


----------



## Athlonite (May 20, 2021)

Yes run the tests


----------



## Kissamies (May 20, 2021)

Alright, repasted and cleaned my HD 7970 Matrix (@ Platinum bios), the card is on its factory OC (1100/1650). With old TIM, 3 runs of Superposition gave maximum of 88C. Now it maxed at 85C.

Not that huge of an improvement, but drop in temps is always nice. I'll repaste my 1080 Ti later and check how it behaves.


----------



## GerKNG (May 20, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> Alright, repasted and cleaned my HD 7970 Matrix (@ Platinum bios), the card is on its factory OC (1100/1650). With old TIM, 3 runs of Superposition gave maximum of 88C. Now it maxed at 85C.
> 
> Not that huge of an improvement, but drop in temps is always nice. I'll repaste my 1080 Ti later and check how it behaves.


identical fixed fan speed?


----------



## Kissamies (May 20, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> identical fixed fan speed?


Ah, didn't test with that and now it's too late.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 21, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> Ah, didn't test with that and now it's too late.


To be fair, given the fan curve that exists on the Radeon 7970, I'll bet the improvement was a bit better as the fan likely wasn't ramping up as high.


----------



## Kissamies (May 21, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> To be fair, given the fan curve that exists on the Radeon 7970, I'll bet the improvement was a bit better as the fan likely wasn't ramping up as high.


Though it's a beefy Asus ROG Matrix card (takes even three expansion slots) so I didn't hear any difference in noise level as the system is noisy even with a passive GPU.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 22, 2021)

Update: I have to delay testing MX-5 for a few days. Personal life has gotten in the way. Will get to it Tuesday or Wednesday.


----------



## Nike_486DX (May 22, 2021)

plz make sure to include Prime95 SmallFFTs with AVX enabled and stuff.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Update: I have to delay testing MX-5 for a few days. Personal life has gotten in the way. Will get to it Tuesday or Wednesday.



I spent a heap of money to do a big shootout with at least a dozen thermal pastes, but I abandoned that plan. Exams and a new job have drawn my attention away from it. As a general rule I have found that unless you're running expensive Thermal Grizzly or cheap-ass stuff like Arctic Alumina, everything else performs damn near identical and differentiating them is like splitting hairs. GD900 is the only exception to that trend (it performs great and costs nothing) and Arctic MX-5 is the best option for long term high performance without annual re-applications. At least with a 120W TDP processor I haven't been impressed by anything else that I've tested.


----------



## Shrek (May 23, 2021)

GD900 needs annual re-application?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

Nike_486DX said:


> plz make sure to include Prime95 SmallFFTs with AVX enabled and stuff.


The system I'm going to be testing with does not have AVX(Dell T3500 with a Xeon W3680), but yes Prime95 will be used. I might even use Intel Burn Test.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> The system I'm going to be testing with does not have AVX(Dell T3500 with a Xeon W3680), but yes Prime95 will be used. I might even use Intel Burn Test.



I wasn't feeling well tonight, so I replaced my mx-4 paste with mx-5 finally, no other variables changed. I gained about 2 Celsius across the board on each test.  regrets. haha

oh well.  I'm not risking conductonaut, if I could get my hands on some noctua nt-h2 i might give that a go, we'll see.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 23, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I wasn't feeling well tonight, so I replaced my mx-4 paste with mx-5 finally, no other variables changed. I gained about 2 Celsius across the board on each test. regrets. haha


2 degrees is actually not that bad. It all depends on heat density and delta ambient.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 23, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I wasn't feeling well tonight, so I replaced my mx-4 paste with mx-5 finally, no other variables changed. I gained about 2 Celsius across the board on each test.  regrets. haha
> 
> oh well.  I'm not risking conductonaut, if I could get my hands on some noctua nt-h2 i might give that a go, we'll see.



All this talk has actually got me thinking of getting some KPX or regular Kryonaut to see how many degrees I can shave off compared to MX-4. I've been doing too much logging/graphing data relating to the crazy CCD temp fluctuations in certain games that heavily load 1-2 cores, wanna see if a repaste with a higher end product can have any effect on those spikes.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 23, 2021)

Hi,
Yeah I'm not really liking the mx-5 personally
Haven't pushed my 9940x at all and it's warmer than nt-h1 has ever been which usually tops out at 45c max and mx-5 I'm seeing one core at 49c so not sure it seats very well

I know I had seating issues with 10900k
First R23 run core spread was obviously off at 77-88c


Second run the other morning was better after tightening the block more 75-84c but I did tinker with some bios settings too got a better score too.



Prior R20 run I know was nt-h1 72-80c much cooler so yeah I'll likely switch back to nt-h1 soon I think I lost or tossed my nt-h2 tube can't find it anywhere it was way too wet also.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I replaced my mx-4 paste with mx-5 finally, no other variables changed. I gained about 2 Celsius across the board on each test.


Any improvement is an improvement. Try to remember that the vast majority of users are not going to replace MX-4 with MX-5. Most will be using it as a replacement for factory/stock TIM's and shops will be using it as a replacement to MX-4 going forward.



ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah I'm not really liking the mx-5 personally
> Haven't pushed my 9940x at all and it's warmer than nt-h1 has ever been which usually tops out at 45c max and mx-5 I'm seeing one core at 49c so not sure it seats very well
> 
> ...


Interesting results. I'm thinking of ordering some NT-H2 as well and running them head to head to see the results.


----------



## freeagent (May 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Any improvement is an improvement. Try to remember that the vast majority of users are not going to replace MX-4 with MX-5. Most will be using it as a replacement for factory/stock TIM's and shops will be using it as a replacement to MX-4 going forward.
> 
> 
> Interesting results. I'm thinking of ordering some NT-H2 as well and running them head to head to see the results.


You should try some of Thermalrights TIM. It is excellent..


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

freeagent said:


> You should try some of Thermalrights TIM. It is excellent..


That would be jumping down a rabbit hole I'm not willing to jump into... I'm already comparing 3 as it is... Not that it's a bad suggestion, just more time than I'm willing to commit too..


----------



## ThrashZone (May 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Any improvement is an improvement. Try to remember that the vast majority of users are not going to replace MX-4 with MX-5. Most will be using it as a replacement for factory/stock TIM's and shops will be using it as a replacement to MX-4 going forward.
> 
> 
> Interesting results. I'm thinking of ordering some NT-H2 as well and running them head to head to see the results.


Hi,
Think r23 does push the cpu temps a little higher than r20 so results from those runs are likely not so off.


----------



## Shrek (May 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Any improvement is an improvement.


At some point it is a game of diminishing returns; I personally would not want to save just a couple of degrees if it is at the cost of longevity or simply if it is too expensive. By longevity I am including the pump-out effect.

Still wondering about Indium pads.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> At some point it is a game of diminishing returns.


While true, again most people are not replacing one top-shelf TIM with another. I had no expectations that MX-5 would be dramatically better than MX-4. I expected a measurable improvement in thermal performance and in physical characteristics, but nothing earth-shatteringly huge. Let's all keep things in proper perspective. I personally think that some have set unreasonable expectation in the minds without realizing that TIM's have reached the upper limit of what they can do. Laws of Physics thing. When Arctic Silver 5 hit the market all those years ago it was ground breaking because TIMs did not perform very well. The science of thermal interface materials was still advancing and had a long way to go. Now more than a decade later that same science has made amazing strides. We are nearing the ceiling of how well a TIM can perform while still obeying the laws of physics.

My impending tests are more for personal curiosity to see how far we've come. I'm going to be comparing MX-5 to the following, a compound I tested years ago against AS5 and found it to perform identically;

So in comparing this to MX-5 and the copper grease I experiment with for nearly a year, I will discover how far advanced we've come. The idea of comparing to NT-H2 as well is growing on me...



Andy Shiekh said:


> By longevity I am including the pump-out effect.


I've never seen this and am not buying into the idea. Will be watching for it, but no expectations of seeing it.


----------



## Shrek (May 23, 2021)

It takes a lot of thermal cycles, so you will probably not see it while testing.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> It takes a lot of thermal cycles, so you will probably not see it while testing.


This TIM does not have the curing time AS5 does. Remember, I said it performed identically, not that it had the same curing requirements.


----------



## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (May 23, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> Alright, repasted and cleaned my HD 7970 Matrix (@ Platinum bios), the card is on its factory OC (1100/1650). With old TIM, 3 runs of Superposition gave maximum of 88C. Now it maxed at 85C.
> 
> Not that huge of an improvement, but drop in temps is always nice. I'll repaste my 1080 Ti later and check how it behaves.


Did you spread the paste on the die or let the mounting pressure spread the paste ?


----------



## Kissamies (May 23, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Did you spread the paste on the die or let the mounting pressure spread the paste ?


With mounting pressure. Liquid metal is the only TIM what I spread manually.


----------



## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (May 23, 2021)

Chloe Price said:


> With mounting pressure. Liquid metal is the only TIM what I spread manually.


Interesting, some said to me on the forms spreading the paste is optimal for direct die contact, and use mounting pressure spread for IHS.


----------



## Kissamies (May 23, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Interesting, some said to me on the forms spreading the paste is optimal for direct die contact, and use mounting pressure spread for IHS.


Dunno, works for me.. I guess that there's not that much of a difference, but I'll do it with mounting pressure also in the future.


----------



## Borc (May 23, 2021)

MX4/MX5 is not a highend paste, it won't perform as good. However the difference depends on the CPU,  on a heatspreader CPU the differences are usually much smaller compared to a direct die laptop CPU or GPU. On a laptop CPU with bigger air gaps between cooler and chip the difference can be big.


----------



## GerKNG (May 23, 2021)

Borc said:


> MX4/MX5 is not a highend paste, it won't perform as good. However the difference depends on the CPU,  on a heatspreader CPU the differences are usually much smaller compared to a direct die laptop CPU or GPU. On a laptop CPU with bigger air gaps between cooler and chip the difference can be big.


i totally agree with MX4 but not with MX5

i have GC Extreme, NT H2, Kryonaut and Kryonaut Extreme.

and even on a GPU Arctic MX5 beats Kryonaut Extreme (3090 and 6900XT tested so far)


----------



## Space Lynx (May 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> All this talk has actually got me thinking of getting some KPX or regular Kryonaut to see how many degrees I can shave off compared to MX-4. I've been doing too much logging/graphing data relating to the crazy CCD temp fluctuations in certain games that heavily load 1-2 cores, wanna see if a repaste with a higher end product can have any effect on those spikes.



Do you live in USA? If I could find someone to split the cost of kryonaut extreme with me, i wouldn't mind using that paste, there is enough paste there for two people. and cheap shipping with a 1-2 dollar tiny envelope.  im not dropping 30 on it though LOL


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

Borc said:


> MX4/MX5 is not a highend paste, it won't perform as good


This is your opinion. 

Based on testing that has already been conducted, MX-4 performs like a high-end paste even if it's not expensive. Several people in this very forum have already experienced improvements to MX-4 with MX-5. I intend to test MX-5 against a known excellent performing TIM, even if it's not a name brand TIM. To counter the naysayers I'm ordering some NT-H2 to test against as well.

Having said that I am delaying the posting of the tests until after the NT-H2 arrives and can be tested the same way as well. To that effort I've also ordered a new fan for the CPU heatsink in question. Details coming soon.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 23, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> i totally agree with MX4 but not with MX5
> 
> i have GC Extreme, NT H2, Kryonaut and Kryonaut Extreme.
> 
> and even on a GPU Arctic MX5 beats Kryonaut Extreme (3090 and 6900XT tested so far)


Very interesting results!  

I tested Arctic MX-5 on both my R9 290X and my MXM laptop GTX 1070 (230W TDP mod), and in each test, MX-5 was 1-2C worse than Kryonaut Extreme.
I also did a quick test on a 9900k IHS and MX-5 was about 2C behind Kryonaut Extreme.

Oddly enough I got best results with both pastes by doing full manual spread on the GPU cores.  I found Kryonaut Extreme and Thermalright TFX to be within 1C of each other, with TFX winning out.
Currently have TFX on my R9 290X and Kryonaut Extreme on my MXM GTX 1070, TFX on my 3090 FE and TFX on my 11900k ES chip.

I've only used Themalright TFX on my 3090 FE (Kryonaut extreme was awful with the non compressible Odyssey pads), and after switching thermal pads first then spread method after, I saw two different results, each better than the other with TFX:

1) switching from Thermalright Odyssey 1.5mm pads to Gelid Extreme 1.5mm pads on core side: stopped Core to Core hotspot delta from degrading from 14C (Odyssey) to 11.5C (Gelid Extreme), both starting originally at 10.5C.  This was with the heatsink pressure spread method.  The low mounting pressure by Thermalright Odyssey pads caused "Pump Out" of the TFX with time, giving the slow rise in temps and increasing delta.  This slow rise to 14C took three weeks.  When I took apart the card and looked at the die, a few small edges of the die didn't have thermal paste on it at all (the die had full coverage on fresh application, so this is indeed pump out due to expand/contraction + low mounting pressure).

Switching to squisher (much better for this card) Gelid Extreme 1.5mm pads almost completely eliminated this but still required more work:  

When I saw the delta rise from 10.5C to 11.5C after 2 weeks (it was 10.2C to 11C in one week) with the Gelid Extremes; --with the Thermalright Odyssey pads it was 12C by this time-- I dismantled the card and did a Fujifilm Ultra Low Prescale test, which confirmed there was excellent mounting pressure (still not uniform but that's an Ampere issue--see Igor's Lab article about this!  Oddly enough there seemed to be more pressure around the edges of the die than the middle, which is not what I was expecting!) with the Gelid Extreme pads, unlike with the Odyssey pads, which had atrocious mounting pressure, even though the extra pad compression was only 0.2mm.  That 0.2mm was massive.  But I still saw a small increase, just a lot smaller than the TR pads.

Here is a picture of the pad compression between the two pads when I was preparing for the full TFX spread test, this was right before I cleaned the heatsink off to do the Ultra Low Prescale pressure paper test.

Gelid Extreme 1.5mm (ignore the partially melted 2mm pads on the backplate):


http://imgur.com/7cvMw6b


Odyssey compression: (discarded pads, this was before I put the Gelid pads on for the 2 week run).


http://imgur.com/1YfXsHk


A world of difference.  You can even read the chip markings on the Gelids.  Thats how well they compress.

Since pressure was fine, but it was already shown that the contact area on Ampere isn't fully uniform, I tried to do a full spread manually of TFX instead of the heatsink pressure (with large X pattern) spread, to see if I could get the slowly degrading deltas under more control.
This wastes a lot more paste, since TFX is so hard to spread and most of it sticks to the spatula, so you have to get a lot on.  I used the pattern and method shown here.

Seanwee's post of where he spread TFX by yeeting it:






						TechnologyGuide
					

Thank you for visiting the TechnologyGuide network. Unfortunately, these forums are no longer active. We extend a heartfelt thank you to the entire community for their steadfast support—it is really you, our readers, that drove




					forum.notebookreview.com
				




Result 10 days later: 10C Delta (400 FPS uncapped, Fortnite main menu @ 530W (this is a shunt modded card), up to 73C/83C where I stopped it), identical to fresh application.   Highest I saw during these runs was 10.3C after a high temp ambient run (probably due to VRAM getting up to 96C at 550W), lowest was 9.9C (last night).  Note that at 400W TDP instead of 530W, for some reason it's 11.2C, (something like 63C / 74.2C), I have no idea why.  The delta is also 11C if I cap the FPS to 165, instead of running it uncapped, go figure.

So at least for this TFX paste with direct die, full spread is important.
(X pattern with heatsink pressure method was perfect on my 10900k ES however, even beating Kryonaut (original) by 2C after 1 week.  Trying to spread TFX on an IHS is an exercise in complete futility)

Whats also noteworthy is when the card goes from full load to 210 mhz idle and cools down, it immediately drops to 10C Delta and remains there all the way to steady state.  On the "pressure" TFX spread + Gelid pad before, this idle was 11C, and on the Odyssey pad idle cooldown test, it was 12C, so these are perfect results.

I did not take a picture of the fujifilm ultra low prescale paper.  I threw it in the bin after testing.

I'm not sure if this 10C minimum hotspot delta is an 'accurate' reading and I'm not even sure if that this is a hardwired bios limit since I couldn't get it to decrease below 10C no matter what I did, no matter how cool the card got (even at 22C idle, it was 22C/32C exactly).  Another user with a different card maker, using a custom loop claimed he got 8C, so this may possibly be set on different Vbioses.  I have seen no 3090 FE users with less than 10C.  Perhaps I'll ask on the Nvidia sub.  On Pascal, this is 11-12C (11C Mobile gtx1070, may be 12C on desktop 1080?), hard offset and never changes.  Thermspy 3.3.0 shows that at 11C on my MXM 1070.  Oddly enough, Thermspy 3.3.0 which doesn't fully support the 3090, shows a non-changing "fixed" 8C Delta, regardless of what the delta is in HWinfo64 /GPU-Z.


----------



## freeagent (May 23, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> All this talk has actually got me thinking of getting some KPX or regular Kryonaut to see how many degrees I can shave off compared to MX-4. I've been doing too much logging/graphing data relating to the crazy CCD temp fluctuations in certain games that heavily load 1-2 cores, wanna see if a repaste with a higher end product can have any effect on those spikes.


It will and it does


----------



## Falkentyne (May 23, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Do you live in USA? If I could find someone to split the cost of kryonaut extreme with me, i wouldn't mind using that paste, there is enough paste there for two people. and cheap shipping with a 1-2 dollar tiny envelope.  im not dropping 30 on it though LOL



Kryonaut Extreme is highway robbery.  Don't buy any of the syringes.  I bought the 33g jar for $104 when it first dropped on Amazon, which is a "fair" price per gram considering the amount you get, but still more than double the price of 40g tubes of MX-2 / 4 / 5, but competitive (almost the same price per gram) as the 11.1g syringe of Kryonaut I bought years ago, just $10 more expensive total ($104 vs $90 when normalized).  Whoever thinks 2 grams of Kryonaut Extreme costs $25 needs to be admitted into a mental institution, because that's the current price....

Not going to lie here, but TFX is also highway robbery on Amazon (and Newegg) also.  6.2 grams for $40 is worse than Kryonaut Extreme 33g jars....
A bit more tolerable is to buy the Thermagic ZF-EX (same exact paste as TFX) from Aliexpress for $7 per 2g tube shipped.   That's 30 grams for $105, almost the same per gram as Kryonaut Extreme 33g jar before the price went up....and a hell of a lot better than $40 for 6.2 grams...

And now the $104 jar is $115....


----------



## Space Lynx (May 23, 2021)

freeagent said:


> It will and it does



for me the decision is between kryonaut non-extreme, and noctua nt-h1  --- h1 is on sale right now for 7 bucks. so i think i might roll with that. 

@lexluthermiester when I said I gained 2 celsius across the board with mx-5... I meant my temps went up by 2 celsius... sorry sleepy and didn't word it right. lol


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> I tested Arctic MX-5 on both my R9 290X and my MXM laptop GTX 1070 (230W TDP mod), and in each test, MX-5 was 1-2C worse than Kryonaut Extreme.
> I also did a quick test on a 9900k IHS and MX-5 was about 2C behind Kryonaut Extreme.


Your results illustrate my point about MX-5, it's performing on a very similar level to TIMs 50% or more it's cost. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the 3.5g Noctua NT-H2 I just ordered for $11 on Amazon. For reference, the 8g MX-5 was $10.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 23, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Your results illustrate my point about MX-5, it's performing on a very similar level to TIMs 50% or more it's cost. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the 3.5g Noctua NT-H2 I just ordered for $11 on Amazon. For reference, the 8g MX-5 was $10.



Agree fully.  50g of MX-5 for $44 was one of the best bargains I've ever seen.  That was equal to the 50g of Arctic Ceramique I bought for $30 like 15 years ago (I still have that tube too).


----------



## Shrek (May 23, 2021)

Would it be fair to say ~1/2 g per CPU application?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Would it be fair to say ~1/2 g per CPU application?


Oh, not even that. I spread TIM's very thinly. There is no need for anything but a tiny amount.


----------



## GerKNG (May 23, 2021)

Stock Paste 6900XT Nitro+ and repasted with MX-5 (identical load with the AMD driver stresstest, fans are even a bit slower and ambient temperature + Case Fan Speed was pretty much identical (20.9 and 20.8°C)


----------



## Space Lynx (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Your results illustrate my point about MX-5, it's performing on a very similar level to TIMs 50% or more it's cost. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the 3.5g Noctua NT-H2 I just ordered for $11 on Amazon. For reference, the 8g MX-5 was $10.



link? i can only find the 10mg in stock on amazon otherwise I was going to buy that...

also, this looks interesting, its a new nano-diamond paste, decently priced... I may try this. I'm really not happy with MX-5 overall, I mean it's fine, but I was really hoping for a 2-3 celsius improvement over my mx-4. and I think i can get that with a paste like this. and since i lost 2 celsius with mx-5, i may get 5 celsius with a paste like this, which is no joke






						Amazon.com: Antec Thermal Paste, High Performance Heatsink Paste for All CPU Coolers, High Durability and Easy to Apply - 4 Grams,Formula : Electronics
					

Buy Antec Thermal Paste, High Performance Heatsink Paste for All CPU Coolers, High Durability and Easy to Apply - 4 Grams,Formula: Heatsinks - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com


----------



## Falkentyne (May 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> link? i can only find the 10mg in stock on amazon otherwise I was going to buy that...
> 
> also, this looks interesting, its a new nano-diamond paste, decently priced... I may try this. I'm really not happy with MX-5 overall, I mean it's fine, but I was really hoping for a 2-3 celsius improvement over my mx-4. and I think i can get that with a paste like this. and since i lost 2 celsius with mx-5, i may get 5 celsius with a paste like this, which is no joke
> 
> ...



May not help but here's 50g for $45um...my link vanished?






						Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-5 (50 g) - Quality Thermal Paste for All CPU Coolers, Extremely high Thermal Conductivity, Low Thermal Resistance, Long Durability, Metal-Free, Non-Conductive, Non-capacitive: Computers & Accessories
					

Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-5 (50 g) - Quality Thermal Paste for All CPU Coolers, Extremely high Thermal Conductivity, Low Thermal Resistance, Long Durability, Metal-Free, Non-Conductive, Non-capacitive: Computers & Accessories



					www.amazon.com


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> link? i can only find the 10mg in stock on amazon otherwise I was going to buy that...


Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-5 (50 g) - Quality Thermal Paste for All CPU Coolers, Extremely high Thermal Conductivity, Low Thermal Resistance, Long Durability, Metal-Free, Non-Conductive, Non-capacitive (ACTCP00058A): Computers & Accessories


----------



## Space Lynx (May 24, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-5 (50 g) - Quality Thermal Paste for All CPU Coolers, Extremely high Thermal Conductivity, Low Thermal Resistance, Long Durability, Metal-Free, Non-Conductive, Non-capacitive (ACTCP00058A): Computers & Accessories




that's not the link I asked for... I asked  @lexluthermiester for his link on nt-h2... cause I can't find it. I'm never buying mx-5 again...


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

Sorry about that; sure you want a diamond laden paste? I would worry about scratching.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 24, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Sorry about that; sure you want a diamond laden paste? I would worry about scratching.



I probably won't get it. everything is fine, and 2 celsius loss isn't a huge deal. so I may just keep everything the way it is and stop spending money, heh... but its kind of shameful of Arctic to release a paste that is worse than mx-2 and mx-4... imo anyway...


----------



## tabascosauz (May 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Do you live in USA? If I could find someone to split the cost of kryonaut extreme with me, i wouldn't mind using that paste, there is enough paste there for two people. and cheap shipping with a 1-2 dollar tiny envelope.  im not dropping 30 on it though LOL



Sorry lol, I live in Canada. 

Not too interested in Kryo Extreme, was looking at Kryonaut but the ones sold by Amazon are only back in stock sometime in June. Even if "fulfilled by Amazon", I'm not going with third party sellers on this one, knowing Kryonaut's spotty past. Same with KPX, Amazon sellers are really dodgy and if I buy directly from Vince, the shipping fees cost more than the 3g tube itself, not willing to go that for something that's not LM.

I've been thinking though, I've still got a tube or two of new NT-H1. Looking back, temps are slightly but consistently higher (~2C) on MX-4 compared to NT-H1 on just about every paste job I've done - 3770, 1230v2, 4790K, 3700X, 280X (especially). Maybe worth a shot breaking out the ol Noctua and seeing if there's a difference first. I've only been exclusively using MX-4 recently because most of my NT-H1 is from like 2015 and there's a lot of MX-4 in that big tube.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 24, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Sorry lol, I live in Canada.
> 
> Not too interested in Kryo Extreme, was looking at Kryonaut but the ones sold by Amazon are only back in stock sometime in June. Even if "fulfilled by Amazon", I'm not going with third party sellers on this one, knowing Kryonaut's spotty past. Same with KPX, Amazon sellers are really dodgy and if I buy directly from Vince, the shipping fees cost more than the 3g tube itself, not willing to go that for something that's not LM.
> 
> I've been thinking though, I've still got a tube or two of new NT-H1. Looking back, temps are slightly but consistently higher (~2C) on MX-4 compared to NT-H1 on just about every paste job I've done - 3770, 1230v2, 4790K, 3700X, 280X (especially). Maybe worth a shot breaking out the ol Noctua and seeing if there's a difference first. I've only been exclusively using MX-4 recently because most of my NT-H1 is from like 2015 and there's a lot of MX-4 in that big tube.



Nt-H1 and retire. Save your money imo.  Nt-H1 is fine.  I'm actually not going to mess with it. 2 celsius is no big deal, so I'm just leaving it way it is.


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I probably won't get it. everything is fine, and 2 celsius loss isn't a huge deal. so I may just keep everything the way it is and stop spending money, heh... but its kind of shameful of Arctic to release a paste that is worse than mx-2 and mx-4... imo anyway...


How do you know it is worse? there is much more to thermal paste than just temperature drop; I consider how it ages even more important.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> How do you know it is worse? there is much more to thermal paste than just temperature drop; I consider how it ages even more important.


That is right, it should not be curing/caking/evaporating.


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

And I still haven't completely understood the pump out effect. I could imagine a grease with high surface tension, so it would find its way back in and surfactants may play a role.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> And I still haven't completely understood the pump out effect. I could imagine a grease with high surface tension, so it would find its way back in and surfactants may play a role.


It is one of those fundamentals similar to watchmakers having to work with less temperature sensitive metals. Particle solubility is what keeps the viscosity up, you cannot make paste out of insoluble material - a.k.a there has to be a compromise to the performance.


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

There is always Indium...


----------



## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (May 24, 2021)

So far the MX5 from what i'v seen is nothing more than what the MX4 offers, what was the point of this ? 

The only difference is its weird baby power blue color


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

Perhaps longevity... something few if any reviews cover.


----------



## GerKNG (May 24, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> So far the MX5 from what i'v seen is nothing more than what the MX4 offers, what was the point of this ?
> 
> The only difference is its weird baby power blue color


well..

MX4 on a 450W GPU deteriorates into silicone soup after 6 hours of load.
MX5 not. (i have MX5 since over 4 weeks on my GPU and the temps are identical to day one)


----------



## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (May 24, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> MX4 on a 450W GPU deteriorates into silicone soup after 6 hours of load.


Lamo what GPU is that


----------



## GerKNG (May 24, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Lamo what GPU is that


a 3080 FTW3 Ultra for example.
the 3090 goes to 500W+ (same for the strix OC)

another reason why i stick to RDNA 2 btw.
my nitro + pulls undervolted 260W and beats my 3080 at 400W


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> That is right, it should not be curing/caking/evaporating.


And yet, would not curing solve the pump out effect?


----------



## freeagent (May 24, 2021)

I have never experienced the pump out effect.


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

I imagine these guys know what they are talking about (~2000 cycles); but I would like to understand more

Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - YouTube

Well worth watching; there is a lot in this video including dry paste.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I imagine these guys know what they are talking about (~2000 cycles); but I would like to understand more
> 
> Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - YouTube
> 
> Well worth watching; there is a lot in this video including dry paste.


You could bookmark "@9:00" not to wait people too long.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> link? i can only find the 10mg in stock on amazon otherwise I was going to buy that...
> 
> also, this looks interesting, its a new nano-diamond paste, decently priced... I may try this. I'm really not happy with MX-5 overall, I mean it's fine, but I was really hoping for a 2-3 celsius improvement over my mx-4. and I think i can get that with a paste like this. and since i lost 2 celsius with mx-5, i may get 5 celsius with a paste like this, which is no joke
> 
> ...


I just logged in, Amazon canceled my order of it. Didn't say why other than it's out of stock, so I got this one instead.
https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NT-H1-Pro-Grade-Thermal-Compound/dp/B002CQU14A 
It's NT-H1 instead of NT-H2 but whatever, it'll do for testing. Less expensive but still, $8 for 3.5g?



lynx29 said:


> I'm never buying mx-5 again...


Are you THAT disappointed? Seriously?


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

My GD900 isn't here yet, but when it gets here I may be able to compare


GD900
Superlube thermal compound
Diaper cream (40% zinc oxide)
Petroleum jelly


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Diaper cream (40% zinc oxide)
> Petroleum jelly


You're brave.


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

I am actually anticipating rather good transfer, and will be using an old video card I repaired through reflow, so little risk.

I am not suggesting

Toothpaste
Peanut butter
that would be crazy.


----------



## freeagent (May 24, 2021)

I would anticipate some pump out with peanut butter..

I've got that diaper cream upstairs.. that 40% stuff.. I would rather use AS5 lol 

I believe it would be only marginally better.. but a win is a win


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

The Diaper cream is just for comparison; it may show that all the fancy stuff is not worth it. 40% is a quite high zinc oxide content, about half that used in thermal grease.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I am actually anticipating rather good transfer, and will be using an old video card I repaired through reflow, so little risk.
> 
> I am not suggesting
> 
> ...


That will be interesting.


Andy Shiekh said:


> The Diaper cream is just for comparison; it may show that all the fancy stuff is not worth it. 40% is a quite high zinc oxide content, about half that used in thermal grease.


True.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

Toothpaste. For that overclocked minty fresh smell when gaming. 
A lot better than the smell of your own gas as you stuff your face with junk food in the heat of battle


----------



## Falkentyne (May 24, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> My GD900 isn't here yet, but when it gets here I may be able to compare
> 
> 
> GD900
> ...


You forgot these two.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LGA6BQ/ (tested by users here directly already).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GZG04U/  (may be even better but I don't think anyone here has tested this yet).

I'm considering trying these myself next month.  I'm on a fixed income and trying to save money so I haven't tried yet.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Are you THAT disappointed? Seriously?



not really no, but why I would I buy a worse performing product when I know my mx-4 was better? and i used to have nt-h1 and i remember that being even 1-2 celsius better than my mx-4... so yeah i prob will just go back to nt-h1


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> not really no, but why I would I buy a worse performing product when I know my mx-4 was better? and i used to have nt-h1 and i remember that being even 1-2 celsius better than my mx-4... so yeah i prob will just go back to nt-h1


I think I may have misunderstood one of your above posts then. Didn't you say MX-5 did 1-2C better than MX-4? This is about the experience I've had, but I didn't document it. 

I've already replaced the factory TIM on my Dell E6230 with MX-5 and the temps dropped 9C. Granted, that's just a 12.1" minilaptop but still, 9C. I'm looking forward to testing on the T3500.


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> You forgot these two.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LGA6BQ/ (tested by users here directly already).
> 
> ...


Trying to avoid pastes that might conduct; also using what I already have as my budget does not stretch to new stuff.

Now I do have some non-copper anti-seize grease...


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> You forgot these two.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LGA6BQ/ (tested by users here directly already).
> 
> ...


I'm going to be testing a compound like those in my testing, just to show the results.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I'm going to be testing a compound like those in my testing, just to show the results.




read post number 299 in this thread.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> read post number 299 in this thread.


Right. Still, that could be a margin-of-error thing. 

I'll say this for MX-5, it's a lot easier to use/spread than anything else I've ever seen.


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

Ease of spreading may be a bad thing according to

Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - YouTube


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Ease of spreading may be a bad thing according to
> 
> Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - YouTube


That would be at time index 8:28.

I'm not sure MX-5 is going to suffer from this problem. It's a little too viscous to fall prey to the process they describe.

@11:38
I love how he called the "air-bubble" thing bullshit! I'm right there with them on that one and for the same reasons.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

I'd like to give my user opinion on the Hot Angry Bear brand paste. But since this thread is about Arctic gloop I'll leave it for another time.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Ease of spreading may be a bad thing according to
> 
> Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - YouTube


I thought drying/caking was bad. It happened to me with AS5.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I thought drying/caking was bad. It happened to me with AS5.


Happened to me with TG Aeronaut, also left slight scratch marks which suggests the paste is mildly abrasive. Not a happy bunny.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

Hemmingstamp said:


> Happened to me with TG Aeronaut, also left slight scratch marks which suggests the paste is mildly abrasive. Not a happy bunny.


Mine killed a gpu, but back then they only held it down with spring loaded pins.


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Mine killed a gpu, but back then they only held it down with spring loaded pins.


I applied Kryonaut today which replaced the Aeronaut paste.
Aeronaut is for air which the rig was on, so I'm shocked my old but new looking 8700k now looks like a mildly used ice rink.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (May 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I thought drying/caking was bad. It happened to me with AS5.



Doesn't that happen with all compounds eventually?


----------



## Hemmingstamp (May 24, 2021)

80-watt Hamster said:


> Doesn't that happen with all compounds eventually?


Under prolonged use or short heavy loads I would assume.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2021)

80-watt Hamster said:


> Doesn't that happen with all compounds eventually?


Depends on the compound.


mtcn77 said:


> I thought drying/caking was bad. It happened to me with AS5.





mtcn77 said:


> Mine killed a gpu, but back then they only held it down with spring loaded pins.


If it was a video card that didn't have a fan or had a crap fan, that's what caused the card to die. AS5 drying out had nothing to do with it. AS5 stays viable and function even when dried out. AS5 generally dries out 6 to 8 months after being installed. This is by design from what I understand.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> AS5 generally dries out 6 to 8 months after being installed. This is by design from what I understand.


That must be some design that eludes me.
I still carry it around, though. Computers are always in short supply around me.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 24, 2021)

even though I am getting 2 celsius worse, I suppose that is one benefit of mx5 paste... i really don't have to worry about changing this paste for like 10 yrs LOL


----------



## Shrek (May 24, 2021)

My batch of GD900 finally got here; so I could do some tests on a video card

Dry 84°C
SuperLube thermal compound 72°C
Petroleum Jelly 71°C
Diaper cream (40%) 68°C
GD900 68°C
Perhaps this will convince someone to include Petroleum Jelly and Diaper cream in their tests, 
just for comparison as the Diaper cream would soon dry out.

Things I didn't try

Dielectric grease
Anti-seize grease


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Perhaps this will convince someone to include Petroleum Jelly and Diaper cream in their tests


Nope. But I'm intrigued by your results. Did you do screen caps?


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

This was just idle as FurMark no longer runs on this card


----------



## Mussels (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> This was just idle as FurMark no longer runs on this card


So its idle tests with no ambient results, no fan speeds, no other relevant information?


Your tests may be of interest to you, but they're so lacking in detail they're not of much functional use


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

They were intended to see if Petroleum Jelly and Diaper cream could do the job, that is all;
with GD900 for comparison.

I found this useful in that it told me Diaper cream was as good as GD900 and so perhaps
longevity is a major factor when comparing thermal greases and not just that one last
degree cooler.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 25, 2021)

Time to settle the score and bust some myths. I tested MX-4, MX-5, NT-H1, GD900 and KPX on my delidded overclocked Core i5 4670K running at 4.4GHz @1.35V with a Hyper 212X cooler and fans on 100%. I ran the Furmark CPU burner for 2 minute runs with 1 minute breaks in between to get repeatable temperature readings. Each TIM was applied on both the die and the IHS to magnify the slight differences in performance as much as possible. Everything was cleaned with IPA as best I could and I made it as level a playing field as humanly possible. Wall power draw for each run was hovering around 170 watts (I was using the iGPU).

I used HWInfo64 for data logging and these were my maximum temperatures for all four cores on each run:

Arctic MX-4 Run 1 (Ambient 23.1C) = 77C, 76C, 76C, 74C
Arctic MX-4 Run 2 (Ambient 23.2C) = 78C, 77C, 76C, 74C
Arctic MX-4 Run 3 (Ambient 23.2C) = 78C, 77C, 76C, 74C

Arctic MX-5 Run 1 (Ambient 23.6C) = 72C, 71C, 71C, 70C
Arctic MX-5 Run 2 (Ambient 23.2C) = 73C, 73C, 73C, 72C
Arctic MX-5 Run 3 (Ambient 23.3C) = 73C, 72C, 73C, 72C

Noctua NT-H1 Run 1 (Ambient 23.6C) = 70C, 70C, 69C, 68C
Noctua NT-H1 Run 2 (Ambient 23.2C) = 71C, 72C, 72C, 70C
Noctua NT-H1 Run 3 (Ambient 23.3C) = 71C, 72C, 72C, 70C

GD900 Run 1 (Ambient 23.2C) = 72C, 72C, 72C, 71C
GD900 Run 2 (Ambient 22.9C) = 75C, 74C, 76C, 73C
GD900 Run 3 (Ambient 23.3C) = 76C, 75C, 75C, 73C

Kingpin KPX Run 1 (Ambient 23.1C) = 71C, 71C, 72C, 70C
Kingpin KPX Run 2 (Ambient 23.3C) = 70C, 69C, 70C, 68C
Kingpin KPX Run 3 (Ambient 22.9C) = 70C, 70C, 71C, 70C

Keep in mind that the first run is essentially a warm-up. Run 2 and Run 3 results are more repeatable and more indicative of the actual performance.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

Looks like MX-5 has found its match...

Looking forward to the GD900 runs (no GD900-1?) as I now have enough for a lifetime.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Looks like MX-5 has found its match...
> 
> Looking forward to the GD900 runs (no GD900-1?) as I now have enough for a lifetime.



Results are updated. Yeah I tried GD900-1 previously and it was nowhere near as good as regular GD900, so it wasn't included. GD900 put on a good show though and outperformed MX-4.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 25, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Time to settle the score and bust some myths. I tested MX-4, MX-5 and NT-H1 on my delidded overclocked Core i5 4670K running at 4.4GHz @1.35V with a Hyper 212X cooler and fans on 100%. I ran the Furmark CPU burner for 2 minute runs with 1 minute breaks in between to get repeatable temperature readings. Each TIM was applied on both the die and the IHS to magnify the slight differences in performance as much as possible. Everything was cleaned with IPA as best I could and I made it as level a playing field as humanly possible. Wall power draw for each run was hovering around 170 watts (I was using the iGPU).
> 
> I used HWInfo64 for data logging and these were my maximum temperatures for all four cores on each run:
> 
> ...



I really wonder if you got a bad batch or one of those fake mx-4 pastes... that is a lot of discrepancy in temps... especially considering i do better with mx-4 over mx-5.


----------



## nguyen (May 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I really wonder if you got a bad batch or one of those fake mx-4 pastes... that is a lot of discrepancy in temps... especially considering i do better with mx-4 over mx-5.



Did you use GPU to test the MX5? might need some more pressure on it then, do some gaming then tighten the mounting screws just a little bit more when the GPU is still warm.
Higher viscosity paste just need higher mounting pressure to squeeze out the unnecessary part since smaller gap offer better thermal transfer.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I really wonder if you got a bad batch or one of those fake mx-4 pastes... that is a lot of discrepancy in temps... especially considering i do better with mx-4 over mx-5.



There will be some big differences, but that's the whole point of applying each TIM on both the die and IHS. In reality with a single application the differences would be within margin of error and that makes it very difficult to compare them. A bad-performing thermal paste might be up around 85-90C with this setup.

With a fair amount of certainty I can say that none of the pastes are fake. I bought the Arctic pastes from one of the most trusted retailers in the country (PC Case Gear Australia). The GD900 is also not fake (I know because I've bought and tested multiple batches) and MX-4 performs similar to GD900, which makes sense based on what I've seen from other reviews.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 25, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Did you use GPU to test the MX5? might need some more pressure on it then, do some gaming then tighten the mounting screws just a little bit more when the GPU is still warm.
> Higher viscosity paste just need higher mounting pressure to squeeze out the unnecessary part since smaller gap offer better thermal transfer.



no I own the rx 6800 non-xt, you don't replace the paste on that. i have never opened mine up, its carbon based and if you open it up you ruin it.

i am only talking cpu's.


----------



## AOne (May 25, 2021)

And proper results would show up after 2-3 weeks of hard use. Older pastes have much lower maximum working temps and would perform good in the first few days and then rapidly (!!) degrade. Newer pastes like Noctua NT-H2, Kingpin KPX, etc, have a max working temp of 200 C and this issue in not affecting them. In general - if your testing results are not repeated 2 weeks later that's only half the story. Been through this on few laptops with MX4, AS5, LM, some unknown stuff found at home and so on. If your chips are working hot, like on all the recent years laptops, it's a really noticeable problem.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 25, 2021)

AOne said:


> And proper results would show up after 2-3 weeks of hard use. Older pastes have much lower maximum working temps and would perform good in the first few days and then rapidly (!!) degrade. Newer pastes like Noctua NT-H2, Kingpin KPX, etc, have a max working temp of 200 C and this issue in not affecting them. In general - if your testing results are not repeated 2 weeks later that's only half the story. Been through this on few laptops with MX4, AS5, LM, some unknown stuff found at home and so on. If your chips are working hot, like on all the recent years laptops, it's a really noticeable problem.



At least with the pastes that I've used on my main rig (MX-4, MX-5 and GD900) I haven't detected any changes in performance over time. I normally find that testing weeks-old applications and then re-applying results in practically no change with standard pastes. That said, I generally try to avoid benchmarking performance changes over time because it's impossible to control the scope. There's far too many variables and inevitably everyone will find a bone to pick when it comes to the testing methodology.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 25, 2021)

im honestly ok with my mx-5, just disappointed is all. but yeah, its kind of a pain to change the paste, so don't think I will do so again, just accept my extra 2 deg i gained... not end of world. and like I said before, mx-5 has added benefit of being fresh off the production line so I know for a fact it will last 8 years without repasting, and honestly where I am with this hobby. that's probably a good thing. my upgrading days are done I think... more to life than games.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> There will be some big differences, but that's the whole point of applying each TIM on both the die and IHS. In reality with a single application the differences would be within margin of error and that makes it very difficult to compare them. A bad-performing thermal paste might be up around 85-90C with this setup.


But doesn't that just mean you have applied them too thick and given advantage to the runny pastes that are not good against pump out?



PooPipeBoy said:


> Results are updated. Yeah I tried GD900-1 previously and it was nowhere near as good as regular GD900, so it wasn't included. GD900 put on a good show though and outperformed MX-4.


That is incredibly useful information, given how expensive GD900-1 is compared to GD900


----------



## nguyen (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> But doesn't that just mean you have applied them too thick and given advantage to the runny pastes that are not good against pump out?



Viscosity doesn't really matter with CPU cooler with high mounting pressure, the problem only exist with GPU and Laptop cooler where mounting pressure is Medium to Low.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

But PooPipeBoy said

" ... that's the whole point of applying each TIM on both the die and IHS. In reality with a single application the differences would be within margin of error and that makes it very difficult to compare them."

i.e. thicker gave differing results.


----------



## nguyen (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> But PooPipeBoy said
> 
> " ... that's the whole point of applying each TIM on both the die and IHS. In reality with a single application the differences would be within margin of error and that makes it very difficult to compare them."
> 
> i.e. thicker gave differing results.



What he meant was had he changed only the TIM on top of the IHS, the difference between all the tested TIM would be within margin of errors (1-2C).
High performance TIM only show tangible benefits when applied to bare die (as with GPU and Laptop), for CPU with IHS there are not much difference between the worst and the best TIM.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> But PooPipeBoy said
> 
> " ... that's the whole point of applying each TIM on both the die and IHS. In reality with a single application the differences would be within margin of error and that makes it very difficult to compare them."
> 
> i.e. thicker gave differing results.



I haven't seen any results that would support that theory. In fact the Kingpin KPX paste was actually the most viscous and MX-4/GD900 are very easy to spread.



nguyen said:


> Viscosity doesn't really matter with CPU cooler with high mounting pressure, the problem only exist with GPU and Laptop cooler where mounting pressure is Medium to Low.



That seems to be correct. When I've used my R9 270X it actually helps MX-4 to beat Kingpin KPX, which I think just comes down to the lower mounting pressure changing the pecking order. The type of testbenches and heatsinks used can make a big difference in that regard.


----------



## r.h.p (May 25, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Depends on the compound.
> 
> 
> If it was a video card that didn't have a fan or had a crap fan, that's what caused the card to die. AS5 drying out had nothing to do with it. AS5 stays viable and function even when dried out. AS5 generally dries out 6 to 8 months after being installed. This is by design from what I understand.



dont have drying problems with the electronics store paste


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> no I own the rx 6800 non-xt, you don't replace the paste on that. i have never opened mine up, its carbon based and if you open it up you ruin it.


I did not know this. Very interesting..


lynx29 said:


> im honestly ok with my mx-5, just disappointed is all. but yeah, its kind of a pain to change the paste, so don't think I will do so again, just accept my extra 2 deg i gained... not end of world. and like I said before, mx-5 has added benefit of being fresh off the production line so I know for a fact it will last 8 years without repasting, and honestly where I am with this hobby. that's probably a good thing.


Maybe the issue you're having it specific to your setup. How do you apply the TIM? Are you using the system in your specs? Is there anything special you might be doing that may be causing a difference?


lynx29 said:


> my upgrading days are done I think... more to life than games.


While true, life is so much less fun without them..



PooPipeBoy said:


> which I think just comes down to the lower mounting pressure changing the pecking order.


This. Mounting pressure matters and can have a measurable effect, even an effect larger than one might expect.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

nguyen said:


> What he meant was had he changed only the TIM on top of the IHS, the difference between all the tested TIM would be within margin of errors (1-2C).
> High performance TIM only show tangible benefits when applied to bare die (as with GPU and Laptop), for CPU with IHS there are not much difference between the worst and the best TIM.



So almost any good TIM is as good as any other in terms of temperature? all the more reason to forget all these temperature measurements and look at other criterion, such as longevity.

That is where 40% diaper cream will flounder; temperature wise it is very good, but it just isn't going to last.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> So almost any good TIM is as good as any other in terms of temperature?


To a degree.(pun intended)


Andy Shiekh said:


> all the more reason to forget all these temperature measurements and look at other criterion, such as longevity.


Not really. Overclocking and heavy load use is what will separate great TIM's from the rest of the pack, thus the constant effort to find formulations that perform as near to perfect as possible.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

I'd trade 2°C for longevity any day; but that's just me.

I think that is the problem with "as near to perfect as possible"; we have differing expectations of perfection.

This is the reason I keep bringing up the stupid 40% diaper cream; it emphasizes the idea that temperature performance is only part of the story.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> we have differing expectations of perfection.


Exactly right! What's perfect to one person may not be the same for another...


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

When someone opens up a thread about thermal grease longevity, count me in; but when things are 'within the margin of error' and we modify the application as a result, count me out.

Not trying to be rude, so I hope the moderators let my opinion stand.

And thanks to all the people here who have been willing to purchase the various greases and then take the time to test them, and I still look forward to the results from the copper based anti-seize grease.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> When someone opens up a thread about thermal grease longevity, count me in; but when things are 'within the margin of error' and we modify the application as a result, count me out.


That's fair.


Andy Shiekh said:


> Not trying to be rude, so I hope the moderators let my opinion stand.


You're fine mate. Personal experiences and opinions are always welcome. Where things cross the lines of the forum rules is personal attacks and general hooliganisms.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

Now where be those copper results? what be holdin` ya up...


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Now where be those copper results? what be holdin` ya up...


I'm waiting on the Noctua NT-H1.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

Interesting review
NOT FOR HIGH-END LAPTOPS!! Read to learn more! (amazon.com)
that suggests one really must wait and can't just test and run.


----------



## AOne (May 25, 2021)

Exactly. Noctua NT-H1 is from the old generation of pastes with max working temp of 100 C, which is the thermal throttling limit of CPUs in the last years. That's why Noctua NT-H2 must be used, which has max working temp of 200C and works perfectly in constant load and high temps. All my laptops are perfectly fine after I switched to it two years ago. Needed to go through the forementioned pastes for a week each, to find out they're lasting not more than a week in temps above 85 C, though having perfect results the first day or two.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 25, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I did not know this. Very interesting..
> 
> Maybe the issue you're having it specific to your setup. How do you apply the TIM? Are you using the system in your specs? Is there anything special you might be doing that may be causing a difference?
> 
> ...




yes, system specs.

yeah read W1zzard tpu review of the 6800 and 6800 xt.  during the disassembly part of the review he mentions don't take it apart.  this is like a graphene carbon cooling method AMD is using on reference cards (and it works very very good imo) and will never need replaced. so i took his advice in that review and never opened it up. my temps have been great, i use a slightly stronger fan curve than stock, its still not very loud and im not even breaking 60 celsius in a lot of games, hot spot will still hit like 77 or so once in awhile.  its a great card imo. i did add thermal pads to the backplate and vram spots. i recently put my backplate back on and did the thermal pads properly.

for this air cooler usually i do the pea size method for my tim, but for mx-5 I used the included spatula and got it even everywhere. 

if my Dad wants to get me a bday gift or something, I think I am going to have him get me some nt-h2 from newegg. re-paste one last time and call it day. i haven't decided yet LOL


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

AOne said:


> Exactly. Noctua NT-H1 is from the old generation of pastes with max working temp of 100 C, which is the thermal throttling limit of CPUs in the last years. That's why Noctua NT-H2 must be used, which has max working temp of 200C and works perfectly in constant load and high temps. All my laptops are perfectly fine after I switched to it two years ago. Needed to go through the forementioned pastes for a week each, to find out they're lasting not more than a week in temps above 85 C, though having perfect results the first day or two.



Amazon.com: Noctua NT-H2 3.5g, Pro-Grade Thermal Compound Paste incl. 3 Cleaning Wipes (3.5g): Industrial & Scientific
"Trusted Noctua quality with excellent long-term stability: recommended storage time up to 3 years, recommended usage time on the CPU up to 5 years"


----------



## Space Lynx (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Amazon.com: Noctua NT-H2 3.5g, Pro-Grade Thermal Compound Paste incl. 3 Cleaning Wipes (3.5g): Industrial & Scientific
> 
> "Trusted Noctua quality with excellent long-term stability: recommended storage time up to 3 years, recommended usage time on the CPU up to 5 years"



yeah and mx-5 is 8 years. so 2-4 celsius worse, but higher longevity. so i guess it just depends which of those is more important to you at end of the day.

5 years is long time... so eh


----------



## AOne (May 25, 2021)

Would you still use this computer after 3 years? I doubt so.  Besides, I assume Noctua are precise in statements and MX5 are exaggerating  a bit. I don't mind repasting every year, as long as my laptop is running in mid 80C in full load. In comparison it was going way over 90 C with MX4 after just 3 days.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

AOne said:


> Would you still use this computer after 3 years? I doubt so.  Besides, I assume Noctua are precise in statements and MX5 are exaggerating  a bit. I don't mind repasting every year, as long as my laptop is running in mid 80C in full load. In comparison it was going way over 90 C with MX4 after just 3 days.


My main computer (a desktop) is 11 years old and still going strong, my car is 23 years old and also still going strong although the ECM does not seem to need thermal paste.

One thing I hate opening up is laptops.


----------



## AOne (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> My main computer is 11 years old and still going strong, my car is 23 years old and also still going strong although the ECM does not seem to need thermal paste.


OK, but would you spare one repasting for all those years in exchange for better cooling? In most of the laptops, 3-4-5 degrees is the difference between throttling and normal work.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

AOne said:


> OK, but would you spare one repasting for all those years in exchange for better cooling? In most of the laptops, 3-4-5 degrees is the difference between throttling and normal work.


Absolutely and that is the whole point; one repasting from stock and no more.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Amazon.com: Noctua NT-H2 3.5g, Pro-Grade Thermal Compound Paste incl. 3 Cleaning Wipes (3.5g): Industrial & Scientific
> "Trusted Noctua quality with excellent long-term stability: recommended storage time up to 3 years, recommended usage time on the CPU up to 5 years"


Yeah, I think that's the one I tried to buy.


----------



## toilet pepper (May 25, 2021)

I just ordered a Thermalright TFX to check if it is any better for my GPU. I have already used Kryonaut, NT-H1, Cryorig CP7 and an MX4 on it and they pretty much are all the same. Might as well try a new paste while I do my routine cleanup. (GPU is deshourded)

On the same thought, this youtube channel got a different result with MX5 being better (marginally) all round.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Interesting review
> NOT FOR HIGH-END LAPTOPS!! Read to learn more! (amazon.com)
> that suggests one really must wait and can't just test and run.


I'm not sure we should give that review much merit. I've never seen any TIM "dry" out and stop being functional. Many dry out and still function perfectly, by design. I greatly doubt Noctua being the company it is would overlook such a critical aspect of a product they promote front & center in their product line-up.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

The part that caught my eye is not the dry out, that is OK; it was the 

"But that lasted for less than a week. The max temps under load started climbing: 78...80...82...84.. 87."


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> I just ordered a Thermalright TFX to check if it is any better for my GPU. I have already used Kryonaut, NT-H1, Cryorig CP7 and an MX4 on it and they pretty much are all the same. Might as well try a new paste while I do my routine cleanup. (GPU is deshourded)
> 
> On the same thought, this youtube channel got a different result with MX5 being better (marginally) all round.


I love this review. His methodology seems spot on!



Andy Shiekh said:


> The part that caught my eye is not the dry out, that is OK; it was the
> 
> "But that lasted for less than a week. The max temps under load started climbing: 78...80...82...84.. 87."


That could be a flawed/poor installation.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

Here is what I see is the problem: The manufacturers will sell us whatever it is we want; and if we want the extra degree less, regardless of long term endurance, then that is what we will get.

No wonder the PC manufacturers don't seem to use the fancy stuff.


----------



## toilet pepper (May 25, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I love this review. His methodology seems spot on!
> 
> 
> That could be a flawed/poor installation.



Yeah, been watching this guy for a while now and he has a few things that other reviewers miss.

I used a pick (I saw cool kids use em) to spread the MX4 and left it alone for a few days and it dried out. The room is around 30-34C most of the time. I tried submerging it in Alcohol for a day and it didn't dissolve. I'm guessing its just fine on top of the CPU/GPU with constant heat and wont dry out there.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Here is what I see is the problem: The manufacturers will sell us whatever it is we want; and if we want the extra degree less, regardless of long term endurance, then that is what we will get.
> 
> No wonder the PC manufacturers don't seem to use the fancy stuff.


I just don't see Noctua doing that. They have a reputation to protect and making a TIM that fails quickly would do their reputation very serious harm.


----------



## toilet pepper (May 25, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I just don't see Noctua doing that. They have a reputation to protect and making a TIM that fails quickly would do their reputation very serious harm.


Hmmm. I used an NT-H1 on my Aorus 1070 way back in 2016. I gave it away and was advised that it was running hot. He changed it to MX4 and its a lot better. It was stuck in a box for a couple of months though.

It seems that these thermal pastes aren't really meant to just sit idle and must be xposed to heat constantly to prevent performance loss.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> Hmmm. I used an NT-H1 on my Aorus 1070 way back in 2016. I gave it away and was advised that it was running hot. He changed it to MX4 and its a lot better. It was stuck in a box for a couple of months though.
> 
> It seems that these thermal pastes aren't really meant to just sit idle and must be xposed to heat constantly to prevent performance loss.


Ok, good to know. I'll have to see what happens when the tube I bought arrives.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That could be a flawed/poor installation.


Then things should be bad from the start.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Then things should be bad from the start.


Not always. I've seen squirrelly applications work ok for a bit and then go south.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 25, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> I just ordered a Thermalright TFX to check if it is any better for my GPU. I have already used Kryonaut, NT-H1, Cryorig CP7 and an MX4 on it and they pretty much are all the same. Might as well try a new paste while I do my routine cleanup. (GPU is deshourded)
> 
> On the same thought, this youtube channel got a different result with MX5 being better (marginally) all round.



I ordered some of this stuff this morning to see how it works.
I also want to see if it isn't just rebranded TFX or Subzero (Phobya Nanogrease), etc.  Apparently they have their own factory in China so there's hope this is something good here.



			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079DQS77Q/
		


No copper Jet Lube 1 pound Kopr-Kote ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LGA6BQ/ ) or 1/4 pound Jet Lube pure copper anti seize ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GZG04U ) samples anytime soon.  Maybe next month or if someone doesn't do it first, then July.  On a fixed income so I can't afford to just buy stuff to tell people how it is.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

SS-30
Amazon.com: Jet-Lube SS-30 - Pure Copper | High Temperature | Anti-Seize | Military Grade | Environmentally Preferred | Thread Compound | 1/4 Lb.: Industrial & Scientific
30% copper, perhaps not enough for a thermal grease.

Then again, I'm the one who keeps saying 'that last degree just isn't worth it if the grease does not last'


----------



## Space Lynx (May 25, 2021)

y'all are taking this paste thread way to far. LOL

its all good, I understand its just part of the hobby. I still can't decide what I want my next paste to be, if I had a few people IRL that needed paste right now though I'd just ask each of us to do 10 bucks each, do kyronaut extreme, and be done with it. and don't change it for 3-5 years.  /shrug haha


----------



## Falkentyne (May 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> y'all are taking this paste thread way to far. LOL
> 
> its all good, I understand its just part of the hobby. I still can't decide what I want my next paste to be, if I had a few people IRL that needed paste right now though I'd just ask each of us to do 10 bucks each, do kyronaut extreme, and be done with it. and don't change it for 3-5 years.  /shrug haha


Kryonaut Extreme is total highway robbery for $25 for 2 grams though!
And I can't recommend the 33 grams for $104 unless you want a lifetime supply of the stuff.

Try the 8 grams of SYY ?


			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079DQS77Q/


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> y'all are taking this paste thread way to far. LOL


Nah, we're just having some fun. No worries!


lynx29 said:


> its all good, I understand its just part of the hobby.


Exactly!


----------



## ThrashZone (May 25, 2021)

Hi,
Hobby, fighting and paying a premium for 1-2c lower temps 
Guessing bengay would be the wrong direction to try I'm sure some may have some laying around though lol


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> y'all are taking this paste thread way to far. LOL
> 
> its all good, I understand its just part of the hobby. I still can't decide what I want my next paste to be, if I had a few people IRL that needed paste right now though I'd just ask each of us to do 10 bucks each, do kyronaut extreme, and be done with it. and don't change it for 3-5 years.  /shrug haha



If you think thermal paste discussions are long and aimless, try doing research on motor oil. Everyone has their own opinions on brand, viscosity, API ratings, base oil groups, ZDDP, SAPS, in fact basically anything to do with oil. The problem is that there's no real way to test oil and most people fall back on their experience like "I used Mobil1 for five years and nothing went wrong", or how smooth the engine acceleration feels or how clean the rocker assemblies are. There isn't much factual information to go by. Thermal paste still isn't great in that regard but at least it's possible to test it to some extent and make informed decisions.



Falkentyne said:


> Kryonaut Extreme is total highway robbery for $25 for 2 grams though!
> And I can't recommend the 33 grams for $104 unless you want a lifetime supply of the stuff.
> 
> Try the 8 grams of SYY ?
> ...



It performs good but it's a waste of packaging to be selling 1-2g of paste. I'd rather get more paste than a certificate of authenticity and stickers and a birthday party hat.


----------



## toilet pepper (May 25, 2021)

Should I give this a go? Same texture and color as an MX4.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> Should I give this a go? Same texture and color as an MX4.
> 
> View attachment 201632


If you're going to give it a go, make sure it's on a system you can afford to loose and take it easy on the CPU. I'f you want to try, show us pictures/screenshots and let's have some fun!


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

I seem to recall some kid that tried mustard and shorted something on the mother board with liquid soap.

Using Toothpaste And Other Crazy Things As Thermal Paste - YouTube


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I seem to recall some kid that tried mustard and shorted something on the mother board with liquid soap.
> 
> Using Toothpaste And Other Crazy Things As Thermal Paste - YouTube


I think he used too much toothpaste and soap... LOL!


----------



## RealKGB (May 25, 2021)

Depending on how much I have left over from a purchase, I may be picking up a 20g or 50g MX-5 tube. Not interested in smaller quantities as I want this to last me for a LONG time. I go through about 1g per year right now, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
I'm not going to repaste my Ryzen 5 3600, but the GTX 690 that I'm going to own will definitely get some fresh paste after I do thermal testing, for comparison. After that I'll be doing some thermal pad swap.

Will update ya on the results!


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2021)

I just got 120g of GD900 for $15 on ebay; I'm set for life.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 25, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I just got 120g of GD900 for $15 on ebay; I'm set for life.



it doesn't expire?


----------



## toilet pepper (May 25, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> If you're going to give it a go, make sure it's on a system you can afford to loose and take it easy on the CPU. I'f you want to try, show us pictures/screenshots and let's have some fun!


That's basically an epoxy. I ain't that stupid. Kinda like cement when it dries out.

Come to think of it. Its a gap filler but I gues the thermal conductivity would be horrendous.


----------



## Kissamies (May 26, 2021)

Repasted my 1080 Ti. With my crappy ventilation, temps went down by ~6C.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> it doesn't expire?



The GD900 tube says a shelf life of two years. I found that even with a lot of testing it still took me about a year to get through one 30g tube.

The one thing I don't like about GD900 is that it's initially watery each time you go to apply it. You need to apply some on a paper towel first before you get a good consistency.


----------



## Shrek (May 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> it doesn't expire?


I got tubs and not tubes so I can remix.



PooPipeBoy said:


> The GD900 tube says a shelf life of two years. I found that even with a lot of testing it still took me about a year to get through one 30g tube.
> 
> The one thing I don't like about GD900 is that it's initially watery each time you go to apply it. You need to apply some on a paper towel first before you get a good consistency.


Strange, mine is not watery


----------



## Falkentyne (May 26, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> If you think thermal paste discussions are long and aimless, try doing research on motor oil. Everyone has their own opinions on brand, viscosity, API ratings, base oil groups, ZDDP, SAPS, in fact basically anything to do with oil. The problem is that there's no real way to test oil and most people fall back on their experience like "I used Mobil1 for five years and nothing went wrong", or how smooth the engine acceleration feels or how clean the rocker assemblies are. There isn't much factual information to go by. Thermal paste still isn't great in that regard but at least it's possible to test it to some extent and make informed decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> It performs good but it's a waste of packaging to be selling 1-2g of paste. I'd rather get more paste than a certificate of authenticity and stickers and a birthday party hat.



I linked the 8 gram one though.
8 grams for $12 is a pretty good deal if it performs well.
Considering 50 grams of MX-5 is $45 (the 40 gram MX-5 is a bit worse price/gram), that's not too far off at $48 for 32 grams.


----------



## Kissamies (May 26, 2021)

Paid 8EUR from 4g syringe myself.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 26, 2021)

Hi,
Just a couple weeks ago did my 1080ti and a week earlier did my titan xp after disassembly after finding sludge after a year of using mods water filter don't lie and time to look through the plexi gpu water block 
lol
Went back with nt-h1 though but seems I disassemble yearly anyway so longevity past 12 months isn't needed also went back to distilled and biocide/ inhibitor+ products instead of premix.


----------



## Kissamies (May 26, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Just a couple weeks ago did my 1080ti and a week earlier did my titan xp after disassembly after finding sludge after a year of using mods water filter don't lie and time to look through the plexi gpu water block
> lol
> Went back with nt-h1 though but seems I disassemble yearly anyway so longevity past 12 months isn't needed also went back to distilled and biocide/ inhibitor+ products instead of premix.


Yuck, that looks nasty. Probably gives a "nice" increase in temps?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 26, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> That's basically an epoxy.


Yeah, but that's plastics. There shouldn't be any bonding effect on metals...



toilet pepper said:


> Come to think of it. Its a gap filler but I gues the thermal conductivity would be horrendous.


You'll never know unless you try...


----------



## Kissamies (May 26, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yeah, but that's plastics. There shouldn't be any bonding effect on metals...
> 
> 
> You'll never know unless you try...


For science!


----------



## toilet pepper (May 26, 2021)

I'll try it on metals first before doing something stupid. I have a spare ryzen 1600. I wont be doing it anytime soon though.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 26, 2021)

Is it possible that MX-5 works better with AIO's than it does air coolers? or let me re-phrase that, is it possible that MX-5 scores would equalize more on an AIO vs an air cooler?

so like I gained 2 celsius going from mx-4 to mx-5 on my tiny air cooler... which made me sad. should have kept the mx-4 after all...

but if i were to do mx-5 on an AIO, would it be equal to mx-4 on the same AIO?  I can't test this... so if anyone else has tested it please let me know.  it's not fiction that some pastes were better with laptops or air coolers like liquid metal, but i'm not willing to risk a leak and frying my mobo with it...


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Is it possible that MX-5 works better with AIO's than it does air coolers? or let me re-phrase that, is it possible that MX-5 scores would equalize more on an AIO vs an air cooler?
> 
> so like I gained 2 celsius going from mx-4 to mx-5 on my tiny air cooler... which made me sad. should have kept the mx-4 after all...
> 
> but if i were to do mx-5 on an AIO, would it be equal to mx-4 on the same AIO?  I can't test this... so if anyone else has tested it please let me know.  it's not fiction that some pastes were better with laptops or air coolers like liquid metal, but i'm not willing to risk a leak and frying my mobo with it...



What air cooler did you use? I'm also wondering if you cleaned both contact surfaces thoroughly with IPA before reassembly with MX-5. It's possible to forget that the heatsink also needs cleaning....


----------



## Space Lynx (May 26, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> What air cooler did you use? I'm also wondering if you cleaned both contact surfaces thoroughly with IPA before reassembly with MX-5. It's possible to forget that the heatsink also needs cleaning....



i cleaned both with 91% isopropyl alcohol, very thoroughly as well.

arctic e34 duo.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> i cleaned both with 91% isopropyl alcohol, very thoroughly as well.
> 
> arctic e34 duo.



Yeah, so there shouldn't be any issues there. The other thing to watch out for is the method of application, I personally apply extra globs of paste above the CCD and I/O die to make sure those heat-generating areas get good coverage.


----------



## phanbuey (May 26, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Just a couple weeks ago did my 1080ti and a week earlier did my titan xp after disassembly after finding sludge after a year of using mods water filter don't lie and time to look through the plexi gpu water block
> lol
> Went back with nt-h1 though but seems I disassemble yearly anyway so longevity past 12 months isn't needed also went back to distilled and biocide/ inhibitor+ products instead of premix.


Biocide will turn cloudy too.  I just use a bit of blue antifreeze. ~ 15% or so with distilled water, that's the only thing that hasn't completely deteriorated after a year.


----------



## Kissamies (May 26, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> What air cooler did you use? I'm also wondering if you cleaned both contact surfaces thoroughly with IPA before reassembly with MX-5. It's possible to forget that the heatsink also needs cleaning....


I've been wiping old paste away with TP since my Pentium II/GF2 days.


----------



## Shrek (May 26, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> Biocide will turn cloudy too.  I just use a bit of blue antifreeze. ~ 15% or so with distilled water, that's the only thing that hasn't completely deteriorated after a year.


Won't that mess with the specific heat?


----------



## Sithaer (May 26, 2021)

Can't add much value to the topic but I will just leave it here that I have GD900 _'the original edition' _on my RX 570 for ~5 months now with no issues.
Its holding about the same temps as whatever Gigabyte put on it in the factory, maybe 1-2 Celsius lower but its hard to tell here cause my room temps are all over the place all the time.

In general I'm using MX 4 for years now on my CPU, it gets the job done but then again I run everything at stock so its to be expected.

Checked now and MX 4 2019 edition and the new MX 5 is pretty much priced at the same in one of the biggest retail shop in my country at around ~7$ for a 4g tube.
In comparison the base Kryonaut 1g is slightly more expensive than that so I don't think I will ever switch from the MX line as it proved itself to me over the years. _'last time I let it on my CPU for 2 years and it wasn't dried out at all'_

As for weird thermal paste ideas, well theres a known tech dude in my country who likes to try out really weird stuff.
He tried peach jam, chili sauce and basically anything in the household that was possible to apply on a CPU/GPU and compared them to the MX 4 baseline.


----------



## Shrek (May 26, 2021)

I think you have added value, namely the longevity of GD900

GD900 seems to be based on Aluminum Oxide and Zinc Oxide and is good for -50°C to 200°C
GD900-1 seems to be based on Aluminum Oxide and Silver and is good for -50°C to 120°C
120°C seems a bit low to me.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Is it possible that MX-5 works better with AIO's than it does air coolers? or let me re-phrase that, is it possible that MX-5 scores would equalize more on an AIO vs an air cooler?
> 
> so like I gained 2 celsius going from mx-4 to mx-5 on my tiny air cooler... which made me sad. should have kept the mx-4 after all...
> 
> but if i were to do mx-5 on an AIO, would it be equal to mx-4 on the same AIO?  I can't test this... so if anyone else has tested it please let me know.  it's not fiction that some pastes were better with laptops or air coolers like liquid metal, but i'm not willing to risk a leak and frying my mobo with it...



@lexluthermiester  any comment on this?  ^


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Won't that mess with the specific heat?


Not really. Antifreeze is also a coolant be design. Should actually work better than water only.



lynx29 said:


> @lexluthermiester  any comment on this?  ^


Not sure to be honest. The difference shouldn't be too dramatic.


----------



## Shrek (May 26, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not really. Antifreeze is also a coolant be design. Should actually work better than water only.


Specific heat of

water: 4.2 kJ/kg K
anti-freeze: 0.6 kJ/kg K
That is why it is not a good idea to run a car on pure anti-freeze.

So a 15% mixture has about 13% less heat carrying ability.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Specific heat of
> 
> water: 4.2 kJ/kg K
> anti-freeze: 0.6 kJ/kg K
> That is why it is not a good idea to run a car on anti-freeze alone.


True, but when combined they work very well together.


----------



## Sithaer (May 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I think you have added value, namely the longevity of GD900



Yeah I was kinda expecting a degradation but its stable so far.
Before re pasting the max I saw was 72-73 celsius in very demanding games and mainly Unreal engine 4 games that push my GPU that far even with an undervolt.

Whats constant is the undervolt and the fan speed, I've disabled the fan off function and set a fixed 40% fan speed instead. _'at that speed its basically dead silent'_

So far I very rarely see my GPU 'core' reach 70 celsius with GD900 and its starting summer here, most of the times its around 65-66 nowadays.
With the dried out Gigabyte paste it was easily hitting 72-73 while playing Witcher 3 last summer.

I will keep monitoring it and see what happens during summer but its promising, especially for the price and the ammount we got for the money. _'My bro bought the GD900 after I told him about it after watching Brian's Techyes channel'_


----------



## ThrashZone (May 26, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> Biocide will turn cloudy too.  I just use a bit of blue antifreeze. ~ 15% or so with distilled water, that's the only thing that hasn't completely deteriorated after a year.


Hi,
Yeah too much biocide will cloud
Inhibitor+ is what controls the ph level I believe, sweet spot is to maintain ph7
Biocide will also not play well with nickel plating
I have used antifreeze mix think it was 15% but I used ac delco gold I named it golden shower lol


----------



## Mussels (May 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I think you have added value, namely the longevity of GD900
> 
> GD900 seems to be based on Aluminum Oxide and Zinc Oxide and is good for -50°C to 200°C
> GD900-1 seems to be based on Aluminum Oxide and Silver and is good for -50°C to 120°C
> 120°C seems a bit low to me.


nothing in a PC is gunna run at 120C


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Specific heat of
> 
> water: 4.2 kJ/kg K
> anti-freeze: 0.6 kJ/kg K
> ...



It's a compromise, nothing unusual there. In chemistry basically everything is a compromise.


----------



## Shrek (May 26, 2021)

Mussels said:


> nothing in a PC is gunna run at 120C



Just for fun: some semi-conductors run at 500C
Extreme-Temperature Electronics (Tutorial - Part 3) (extremetemperatureelectronics.com)

and they sometimes run diodes and transistors in power supplies purposefully hot (by reducing cooling) to increase efficiency.


----------



## R-T-B (May 26, 2021)

Mussels said:


> TPU hates IC diamond with a passion, after their CEO came on here being an ass when it was damaging products and made weird comments about killing peoples grandmas, and threatening lawsuits.
> 
> Yeah, it was fun times.


That one went down in the great book of grudges, it did.



Mussels said:


> nothing in a PC is gunna run at 120C


Nothing silicon anyways.


----------



## Shrek (May 26, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> That one went down in the great book of grudges, it did.
> 
> 
> Nothing silicon anyways.



Extreme-Temperature Electronics (Tutorial - Part 3) (extremetemperatureelectronics.com)
"Actually Si devices have been operated to about 500°C as mentioned earlier in _Tutorial #1_."

Again, this is just for fun... not trying to prove a point even if I would still prefer a thermal grease that could take higher temperatures so I know it will last decades.


----------



## R-T-B (May 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Extreme-Temperature Electronics (Tutorial - Part 3) (extremetemperatureelectronics.com)
> "Actually Si devices have been operated to about 500°C as mentioned earlier in _Tutorial #1_."
> 
> Again, this is just for fun... not trying to prove a point even if I would still prefer a thermal grease that could take higher temperatures so I know it will last decades.


"PC" was the context.  I'm aware silicon can go much higher in non-PC configurations.


----------



## Shrek (May 26, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> "PC" was the context.  I'm aware silicon can go much higher in non-PC configurations.


That's why I picked the PC power supply...

Just for fun... not here to argue.


----------



## R-T-B (May 27, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> That's why I picked the PC power supply...
> 
> Just for fun... not here to argue.


Oh, good point.

nah not arguing, no worries.


----------



## Shrek (May 27, 2021)

I hope things will follow the Apple M1 chip, where things run cool and we don't need to worry about the thermal grease.


----------



## Mussels (May 27, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> That's why I picked the PC power supply...
> 
> Just for fun... not here to argue.


and the items in a PSU that use thermal paste are... ?


----------



## Shrek (May 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> and the items in a PSU that use thermal paste are... ?


I thought maybe some of the MOSFETs and perhaps some of the bridge diodes or even the low voltage diodes on the secondary side.

How about the VRM in a PC?


----------



## R-T-B (May 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> and the items in a PSU that use thermal paste are... ?


I've seen it in some psu teardowns.


----------



## Shrek (May 27, 2021)

OK, enough mischief on my part... back to thermal paste longevity.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 27, 2021)

On that note, the Noctua NT-H1 I ordered has arrived. The testing will begin tomorrow.





To restate, the compounds I'll be testing are as follows;
Stars DRG-102(Generic TIM) known to perform on the same level as ArcticSilver5 but without the curing time.
Automotive Copper thread grease.
Noctua NT-H1
Arctic Cooling MX-5

Details to follow with test results.


----------



## Shrek (May 27, 2021)

Ummm GD900?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 27, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Ummm GD900?


I don't have any.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 27, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> On that note, the Noctua NT-H1 I ordered has arrived. The testing will begin tomorrow.
> View attachment 201730
> 
> View attachment 201731
> ...



I'm interested to see what you get. NT-H1 should perform a hair better than MX-5 if my own testing is anything to go by.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 27, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> I'm interested to see what you get. NT-H1 should perform a hair better than MX-5 if my own testing is anything to go by.


Might be a margin of error thing, might not. I'm keeping things objective. Results will tell the tale. I'm taking pictures and screenshots so you all will be able to judge for yourselves.


----------



## Shrek (May 27, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I don't have any.


Ah, didn't realize that.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 27, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Might be a margin of error thing, might not. I'm keeping things objective. Results will tell the tale. I'm taking pictures and screenshots so you all will be able to judge for yourselves.



I'm looking forward to the results mate.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 27, 2021)

The SYY Paste came today.  They "apparently" have their own factory in China so it's not some fake paste, assuming the seller profile is correct.
Not sure if their amazon storefront profile is accurate but if it is this seems to be the company.

http://sztensan.com/company-profile/ (again I don't know if this is accurate, it's just what is listed on Amazon).

The paste is this.





						Amazon.com: Thermal Paste, SYY 8 Grams CPU Paste Thermal Compound Paste Heatsink for IC/Processor/CPU/All Coolers, 15.7W/m.k Carbon Based High Performance, Thermal Interface Material, CPU Thermal Paste: Computers & Accessories
					

Amazon.com: Thermal Paste, SYY 8 Grams CPU Paste Thermal Compound Paste Heatsink for IC/Processor/CPU/All Coolers, 15.7W/m.k Carbon Based High Performance, Thermal Interface Material, CPU Thermal Paste: Computers & Accessories



					www.amazon.com
				




This is a very interesting product.
The base components (fingerprint compression on finger + visual test) seems to be the exact same or extremely similar to Thermalright TFX / Thermagic ZF-EX.  It has the exact same properties and appearance of TFX once compressed, that is, when you spread it on your finger thinly, it 'sticks' to it like a layer of coating, which is exactly what TFX does.  (by comparison, doing this same test with coolermaster Gel Maker Nano is terrible--Gel Maker Nano feels more like a very sticky molasses instead).  However there is a big difference in its spreading ability vs TFX.

It's a thick paste, just like TFX, very viscous, but it isn't overly dry and thick like TFX.  TFX is extremely hard to spread without putting a lot on the die and brute forcing it (otherwise it just sticks to the spatula and itself).  But this paste, while thick, is not quite as thick, feeling wetter and thus spreading much better.  It's a lot easier to get a healthy full layer on the GPU without so much effort, although getting it into a thin layer is still difficult.  But a thicker layer is effortless.  

So it feels like a TFX that is simply easier to spread while maintaining TFX's advantages of good thickness.  So it has easier wetting capability.  It's thicker than Kryonaut Extreme and much thicker than MX-5.

Performance is literally identical to TFX on my laptop MXM GTX 1070 video card (TDP modded).  Testing under terrible ambients (>32C), but just like TFX, it seems to be 1C better than Kryonaut Extreme so far.

Need to see if it retains TFX's long term durability.
And the price is just outstanding. 8 grams for $12.  That's almost as good as MX-5's price/gram from the Arctic store.
That makes this paste a must buy, considering TFX is currently $40 for 6.2 grams on Amazon, $26 for 6.2 grams from the Slow Boat from China, and ZF-EX is $8/2 grams also from Aliexpress.

I'll probably throw this on some CPU's later, maybe my 9900k and my 11900k ES to do some prime95 temp comparisons between TFX and this to confirm it's the same paste, just formulated to spread easier.

Worth trying especially at the listed price, considering Kryonaut Extreme and TFX prices are still like a kick to the groin.


----------



## Shrek (May 28, 2021)

Still trying to figure out if wettability or viscosity is more important.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 28, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Still trying to figure out if wettability or viscosity is more important.



Why not both?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 28, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Why not both?
> 
> View attachment 201884


Interesting specs.


----------



## freeagent (May 28, 2021)

Thanks man! Going to try it out


----------



## Space Lynx (May 28, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Why not both?
> 
> View attachment 201884



I'm very tempted to try this SYY paste... you like it overall?


----------



## freeagent (May 28, 2021)

A wetter TFX is better 

I'm in


----------



## Falkentyne (May 28, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I'm very tempted to try this SYY paste... you like it overall?



I love this paste.
Temps are within 0C of TFX, literally, just much easier to spread while still being thick!  And less than half the price of TFX.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 29, 2021)

@lexluthermiester what's taking so long on those temps?!?!?!  womp... I still can't decide what paste to buy.. lol

part of me wants to go conductonaut since i do i have an air cooler... but im just so afraid if it leaks even one drop... bye bye mobo...


----------



## Shrek (May 29, 2021)

A couple of degrees traded against the risk; doesn't seem worth it to me.

I just repasted 3 computers and have hardly made a scratch in my first 30g tub of GD900


----------



## Space Lynx (May 29, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> A couple of degrees traded against the risk; doesn't seem worth it to me.
> 
> I just repasted 3 computers and have hardly made a scratch in my first 30g tub of GD900



i most likely am going to get a tube of nt-h1. only 7 bucks on amazon. nt-h1 has always done me well in the past. mx-5 disappointed me honestly... it was so hard to remove... mx-4 was easy to remove..


----------



## Shrek (May 29, 2021)

Hard to remove might actually be a very important quality to avoid pump out.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 29, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Hard to remove might actually be a very important quality to avoid pump out.



i mean mx-4 never had any issues, nor did mx-2 to my knowledge. both perform better than mx-5, and are easier to clean for re-pastes... so it just seems like mx-5 loses all the checkboxes to me... i don't fully know what you mean by pump out though...


----------



## Shrek (May 29, 2021)

Pump out, perhaps one of the most important aspects of thermal grease

As the chip thermally expands and contracts relative to the heatsink, it slowly pumps out the thermal grease; it may take thousands of cycles.

(1) Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - Bing video


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 29, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Pump out, perhaps one of the most important aspects of thermal grease
> 
> As the chip thermally expands and contracts relative to the heatsink, it slowly pumps out the thermal grease; it may take thousands of cycles.
> 
> (1) Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - Bing video



Pump-out might be relevant for thinner pastes but normally thermal paste needs to be replaced because the paste itself has expired. For a stock Intel heatsink I've found that the paste goes bad after about five years. Typically that's because the paste has dried out and isn't making good contact, which has very little to do with the original viscosity (stock heatsink pastes are very thick). There is no singular trait that determines whether a paste will be good or bad.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @lexluthermiester what's taking so long on those temps?!?!?! womp... I still can't decide what paste to buy.. lol


I'm not done yet and I've had to restart. Though I can tell you, keep your MX-5...

In case you're wondering, I had a fan fail during testing which invalidated all of the tests because there was no way for me to know if the fan was causing variances. So, I ordered a new fan and am waiting for it to arrive. Murphy's law in effect...


----------



## Shrek (May 29, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Pump-out might be relevant for thinner pastes but normally thermal paste needs to be replaced because the paste itself has expired. For a stock Intel heatsink I've found that the paste goes bad after about five years. Typically that's because the paste has dried out and isn't making good contact, which has very little to do with the original viscosity (stock heatsink pastes are very thick). There is no singular trait that determines whether a paste will be good or bad.


I am not convinced that dried out paste is not effective, after all an indium pad works just fine, and it might be a way around pump out.

Take a grease like SuperLube thermal compound; it is good to 260°C so should have no problem not evaporating at 100°C; now GD900-1 is only good to 120°C and that does not seem a good enough safety margin to me (the original GD900 is good to 200°C)

Let's use Arrhenius' law (probably not applicable here) which say reactions double in rate for ever 10°C, then a safety factor of 20°C gives one 4 times the life (GD900-1), while a factor of 100°C gives a factor of 1000 (GD900) and 160°C gives 65,000 (SuperLube)

Noctua NT-H1 has a 110°C top temperature NT-H1 3.5g || Specifications (noctua.at)
Noctua NT-H2 has a 200°C top temperature NT-H2 3.5g || Specifications (noctua.at)

MX-5 specs states: Limited 8 years Durability (as does MX-4)
MX-5_EN_V02.indd (arctic.de)

If all we are interested in is day 1 performance we may end up with the wrong compound.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 29, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I am not convinced that dried out paste is not effective, after all an indium pad works just fine, and it might be a way around pump out.
> 
> Take a grease like SuperLube thermal compound; it is good to 260°C so should have no problem not evaporating at 100°C; now GD900-1 is only good to 120°C and that does not seem a good enough safety margin to me (the original GD900 is good to 200°C)
> 
> ...



I don't know where you get all these theories from but you must have a head like Megamind from overthinking everything.



Andy Shiekh said:


> I am not convinced that dried out paste is not effective, after all an indium pad works just fine, and it might be a way around pump out.



I've seen Core i3 processors with the original heatsink thermal throttling at 90C, and after replacing the thermal paste barely touching 50C. Dried out paste definitely isn't effective. Indium pads, yeah they sound great, they're a completely different product though and we gotta be careful to not compare olive oil to motor oil.



Andy Shiekh said:


> Take a grease like SuperLube thermal compound; it is good to 260°C so should have no problem not evaporating at 100°C; now GD900-1 is only good to 120°C and that does not seem a good enough safety margin to me (the original GD900 is good to 200°C)
> 
> Let's use Arrhenius' law (probably not applicable here) which say reactions double in rate for ever 10°C, then a safety factor of 20°C gives one 4 times the life (GD900-1), while a factor of 100°C gives a factor of 1000 (GD900) and 160°C gives 65,000 (SuperLube)



Lets say I've got a cup of water at 25C. It freezes at 0C and boils at 100C. Does that mean that it's got a 25% chance of boiling and a 75% chance of freezing? Instead it's actually doing nothing at that temperature. What I'm saying is that a paste that breaks down at 260C provides no indication of what it might be doing at 100C, or 80C, or any other temperature. For all you know it might have a melting point of 150C and below that temperature it's actually a solid. I see what you're trying to do with extrapolating results but it doesn't really mean anything. A paste rated for 120C will perform just fine at 120C, however beyond that temperature there's no guarantee that it will be chemically stable.


----------



## Mussels (May 29, 2021)

^ what... sigh, "poopipeboy" said
you're overthinking things, and using info in the wrong context

Fire can handle thousands of degrees, it must be the best thermal compound - flamethrower heatsinks anyone?


----------



## ThrashZone (May 29, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I am not convinced that dried out paste is not effective, after all an indium pad works just fine, and it might be a way around pump out.
> 
> Take a grease like SuperLube thermal compound; it is good to 260°C so should have no problem not evaporating at 100°C; now GD900-1 is only good to 120°C and that does not seem a good enough safety margin to me (the original GD900 is good to 200°C)
> 
> ...


Hi,
If I make it through 6 months before I alter my systems that I'd change the paste I'd be surprised so 1-2-3-4/.... years durability is great but a wasted spec since it would never see that long installed 
Shelf life well that would be a different story


----------



## Shrek (May 29, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Lets say I've got a cup of water at 25C. It freezes at 0C and boils at 100C. Does that mean that it's got a 25% chance of boiling and a 75% chance of freezing?


At 75°C it evaporates much faster than at 25°C; the problem is the Boltzmann distribution of velocities, some have what is takes to 'boil' off; so actually it both boils and freezes, some evaporates off, the rest cools down.

Taking into account evaporation and pump out is overthinking? These are real things.



PooPipeBoy said:


> A paste rated for 120C will perform just fine at 120C, however beyond that temperature there's no guarantee that it will be chemically stable.


A capacitor rated at 105°C will perform just fine at 105°C? Have you seen their rated life at that temperature? months, not years.



Mussels said:


> Fire can handle thousands of degrees, it must be the best thermal compound - flamethrower heatsinks anyone?


Straw man argument.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 29, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> At 75°C it evaporates much faster than at 25°C; the problem is the Boltzmann distribution of velocities, some have what is takes to 'boil' off; so actually it both boils and freezes, some evaporates off, the rest cools down.
> 
> Taking into account evaporation and pump out is overthinking? These are real things.
> 
> ...



Its the same reason why dried out oxidized liquid metal gives worse temps on low pressure heatsinks and needs to be replaced.
Gallium gets absorbed into the copper, causing the remaining low gallium+indium+tin mixture to harden because there's too little gallium for it to remain liquid anymore.  Combine that with the regular thermal expansion and contraction, you now have imperfect, bad contact and major hot spots with what's left.  (There are ways to limit / prevent this).

With thermal paste, this is even worse because the components themselves end up separating and drying out and once again you are left with imperfect contact and very poor heat transfer.  

Some pastes just completely break down (MX-4 has turned into soup for some people, on very hot, high wattage chips).

Some pastes will become dryer and thicker (like a putty) but will not separate and will maintain their thermal properties while becoming even more resistant to further shifting around (Thermalright TFX and SYY-157 paste is like this).


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 29, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Some pastes just completely break down (MX-4 has turned into soup for some people, on very hot, high wattage chips).


In these cases, it was applied too thick and the excess dripped away under load. TIMs do not need more than just a tiny amount, spread very thinly.



Andy Shiekh said:


> I am not convinced that dried out paste is not effective


And you would be correct. TIM's do NOT loose effectiveness after "drying" out. In most cases, the fluid components are only a delivery mechanism and do not actually assist in the function of heat conduction.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 29, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> In these cases, it was applied too thick and the excess dripped away under load. TIMs do not need more than just a tiny amount, spread very thinly.
> 
> 
> And you would be correct. TIM's do NOT loose effectiveness after "drying" out. In most cases, the fluid components are only a delivery mechanism and do not actually assist in the function of heat conduction.


Hi,
Indeed too many watching GN on youtube all his chips look like he uses an entire tube on one mount lol


----------



## Space Lynx (May 29, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Indeed too many watching GN on youtube all his chips look like he uses an entire tube on one mount lol



to my knowledge he only did that once or twice and was just part of the testing to see if it mattered or not temp wise. i doubt he actually uses that much in a real world build.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 29, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> to my knowledge he only did that once or twice and was just part of the testing to see if it mattered or not temp wise. i doubt he actually uses that much in a real world build.


Hi,
He shows applying excessive thermal paste, grizzly to be exact on the beginning of every youtube video I believe lol


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 29, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Indeed too many watching GN on youtube all his chips look like he uses an entire tube on one mount lol


I roll my eye's everytime I see Steve or even Jay apply a TIM... just wasteful..


----------



## ThrashZone (May 29, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I roll my eye's everytime I see Steve or even Jay apply a TIM... just wasteful..


Hi,
Have you seen GN plastic case with chips in it ?
I saw it all of them were soaked in paste it was pretty funny should of saved it lol


----------



## Shrek (May 29, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I had a fan fail during testing which invalidated all of the tests because there was no way for me to know if the fan was causing variances. So, I ordered a new fan and am waiting for it to arrive. Murphy's law in effect...


I have a tendency of finding a way to get some oil into the bearing (assuming it was that which failed)


----------



## Space Lynx (May 29, 2021)

I have never had a fan fail, like ever. That being said, I switch out all my gear every 5-7 years on average, and I turn my PC off when not using it. Also, I probably just don't use it as much as other people.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 29, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I have a tendency of finding a way to get some oil into the bearing (assuming it was that which failed)


It wasn't the bearing or I would have reoiled and started over. It was a motor coil burn out. The smell was nasty.



lynx29 said:


> I have never had a fan fail, like ever.


It happens from time to time. I see one fail like this every few years.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 29, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> In these cases, it was applied too thick and the excess dripped away under load. TIMs do not need more than just a tiny amount, spread very thinly.
> 
> 
> And you would be correct. TIM's do NOT loose effectiveness after "drying" out. In most cases, the fluid components are only a delivery mechanism and do not actually assist in the function of heat conduction.



We're not talking about that.  We're talking about pastes degrading in a few months, and needing reapplication (or a completely different paste).
Applying too much isn't going to affect this.  It's going to get squeezed out anyway.
I already tested this on my GTX 1070, R9 290X and RTX 3090.
I yeeted the TFX and Kryonaut Extreme and MX-5 (MX-5 and Kryo Extreme tested on 290X and 1070 only) by intentionally applying "too much".  There was no variance in longevity.  This was easy to see with Kryonaut Extreme and MX-5, after some high temp torture testing (Intentional 95C on 290X) then back to normal temps to check for degradation.

In fact, on my last repaste on my 3090 FE, I intentionally yeeted the TFX by painting over the entire core (and a second thinner layer on the heatsink) instead of doing the X + dots method, and got the best results this way.  Got this information from notebookreview (due to them fighting constant convex cores and imbalanced heatsinks, some very experienced people there).

(Some new updated paste results also. Kryonaut and Kryonaut Extreme are on a previous page with a different application).






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As far as 'Applying too much' and spreading: I was using the X pattern with dots with TFX until I read this:






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Now I just follow Seanwee's method.






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----------



## lexluthermiester (May 29, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Now I just follow Seanwee's method.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh I'll pass on that.


----------



## Shrek (May 29, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> We're not talking about that.  We're talking about pastes degrading in a few months, and needing reapplication (or a completely different paste).


My Mini-mind reasoning was that if the paste can take 260°C then it probably is not going to degrade at 100°C


----------



## Falkentyne (May 29, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> My Minimind reasoning was that if the paste can take 260°C then it probably is not going to degrade at 100°C



Yeah I get you. Everyone here is making some good points and no one is what I would consider "wrong."
But with thermal pastes theres just so many things that can cause things to go south.
Counterfeiting, imbalanced heatsinks, convex cores, terrible mounting pressure, you name it.  That's why notebookreview forums has been a great learning place for discussion about thermal pastes (and pads) because the laptop users have always had the worst of it.

Also, always take any spec with the smallest grain of salt possible.  Just because a paste is rated to take a certain temp doesn't mean it can take it long term.  We've already seen plenty of posts about pastes breaking up or as you mentioned yourself, thermal stresses and pumping out, and the weaker the mounting pressure, the worse the pump out effect.  

I'm still trying to find a picture of the "Soupy" MX-4.  I don't even remember what forum it was on, because I disregarded it (I don't use MX-4 anymore, even though I still have a 6 year old tube--I even remember where I bought it from!).  Someone was complaining about high temps (degraded with time).  But it was not on a 'small' BGA die.  It was either on a GPU or IHS.  The application itself looked "fine".  Not too much was applied.  There was the normal expected amount outside the chip and the chip was completely covered up.  The problem was the appearance of the paste.  It looked like the consistency was completely ruined, I can't describe it, except as "soupy and wavy", and the only part that looked like normal paste was the part outside the chip.  It was clear that the paste had completely separated into its liquid vs solid components despite the liquid components covering the entire die.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (May 29, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> We're not talking about that.  We're talking about pastes degrading in a few months, and needing reapplication (or a completely different paste).
> Applying too much isn't going to affect this.  It's going to get squeezed out anyway.
> I already tested this on my GTX 1070, R9 290X and RTX 3090.
> I yeeted the TFX and Kryonaut Extreme and MX-5 (MX-5 and Kryo Extreme tested on 290X and 1070 only) by intentionally applying "too much".  There was no variance in longevity.  This was easy to see with Kryonaut Extreme and MX-5, after some high temp torture testing (Intentional 95C on 290X) then back to normal temps to check for degradation.
> ...



Opening caveat:  I don't re-paste many open dies.

It wastes a few tenths of a gram, but I've landed (for the moment) on spreading the contact area with the edge of an old credit card (or equivalent).


----------



## Falkentyne (May 29, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Oh I'll pass on that.


That's specifically for TFX.  
(I got the best results on my 3090 FE (most stable core temp deltas) applying it like that.
SYY-157 still needs full coverage but is easier to get on.

Anyone here use SYY-157 yet?


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 30, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> At 75°C it evaporates much faster than at 25°C; the problem is the Boltzmann distribution of velocities, some have what is takes to 'boil' off; so actually it both boils and freezes, some evaporates off, the rest cools down.
> 
> Taking into account evaporation and pump out is overthinking? These are real things.
> 
> ...



Evaporation is a trait specific to water (does oil evaporate??) and it's own specific chemical stability. Even ice evaporates (sublimation). That has nothing to do with thermal paste.

Anyway, I'm done with this conversation and trying to keep up with your endless meanderings. Cheers.


----------



## Falkentyne (May 30, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Evaporation is a trait specific to water (does oil evaporate??) and it's own specific chemical stability. Even ice evaporates (sublimation). That has nothing to do with thermal paste.
> 
> Anyway, I'm done with this conversation and trying to keep up with your endless meanderings. Cheers.



Technically, not true.
Evaporation is simply the separation of individual molecules from a material.  Many objects and liquids will perform like this.  It isn't intrinsic to H2O.
99% isopropyl Alcohol evaporates at room temperature even faster than water does.  Apply a thin layer of 99% iso to a CPU IHS or GPU to clean it off and it evaporates in seconds.

Then we get into "Erosion" which is getting extremely off topic.  We don't need go deep on a tangent about about chemistry and physical science.

And technically, "boiling" point is a form of evaporation, where the entire material transitions from a liquid to a gas.
Probably most important to overclockers is Liquid Nitrogen, which boils at room temperature and evaporates all over the place, probably the best well known example besides water itself, and dry ice (which isn't water).

Anyway I don't think evaporation is what anyone should be talking about here.  What we're focused on is the actual separation of materials from an alloy or mixture into their individual components (e.g. the "Soupy" MX-4, etc), which one can call "Dryout" of paste, as opposed to "Pump out", where the paste is intact but gets slowly pushed off an even layer from the die, leaving hot spots (expansion/contraction+uneven/imbalanced heatsinks/bad mounting pressure).


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 30, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Evaporation is a trait specific to water


False. All elements can evaporate as all elements have a liquid state depending on temperature.



PooPipeBoy said:


> (does oil evaporate??)


It does, the only question is how fast and at what temp range.



PooPipeBoy said:


> Anyway, I'm done with this conversation and trying to keep up with your endless meanderings. Cheers.


Oh come on now, let's be friendly. Andy's not trying to irritate you..


----------



## ThrashZone (May 30, 2021)

Hi,
Thermal paste one subject that gets heated by more than 1 or 2c too lol


----------



## Space Lynx (May 30, 2021)

my parents PC's need re-pasted, they are ancient APU based systems the first Ryzen offered I believe. going to use mx-5 for them as well. its been about 5-7 years since i re-pasted did a full cleaning on theirs... so that will be fun... haha... I think my mom is running my 2500k cpu and 5570 gpu..., I can't remember. my dad has the APU


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 30, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> False. All elements can evaporate as all elements have a liquid state depending on temperature.
> 
> It does, the only question is how fast and at what temp range.
> 
> Oh come on now, let's be friendly. Andy's not trying to irritate you..



Then why does a bucket of motor oil sit in a shed and it's still there after 30 years, hmm? It's in a liquid state, so where's the evaporation?

I'm not mad, it's just tired of talking to people who have an imaginary degree in chemical engineering and make baseless claims with no connection to reality. Blanket statements are overly simplistic and the behavior of products should be considered on a case-by-case basis.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 30, 2021)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Then why does a bucket of motor oil sit in a shed and it's still there after 30 years, hmm? It's in a liquid state, so where's the evaporation?


In general, typical room temps are not hot enough to do so. Heat it up to 200C and you'll see some action.



PooPipeBoy said:


> I'm not mad, it's just tired of talking to people who have an imaginary degree in chemical engineering and make baseless claims with no connection to reality.


As someone who holds several degrees, I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt due to a number of contributions Andy has made to numerous conversations. Additionally, there is also a language barrier to consider. His primary language is not English. He does his best to converse in English(very well IMHO) but sometimes things get lost in the translation.

EDIT: After a PM conversation it would seem I got him confused with another user. It would seem English is his primary language. Still, everyone thinks and communicates in a different way and this can sometime still get lost in the process.

We're all friends here, lets be chill.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (May 30, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> In general typical room temps are not hot enough to do so. Heat it up to 200C and you'll see some action.
> 
> 
> As someone who holds several degrees, I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt due to a number of contributions Andy has made to numerous conversations. Additionally, there is also a language barrier to consider. His primary language is Spanish, not English. He does his best to converse in English(very well IMHO) but sometimes things get lost in the translation.
> ...



That's cool, I have a few degrees in engineering myself. Mechanical and agricultural mainly, but I never mention them because they tend to have little to do with discussions about computing.



Andy Shiekh said:


> I don't know, a Mechanical Engineer would have done courses in thermodynamics and so be well prepared for thermal conduction.



I studied thermodynamics and did my dissertation on heat storage in latent heat materials. Pretty well prepared for it.

@95Viper Amen. I've had enough of talking about things that have nothing to do with thermal paste, it's a total waste of everyone's time.


----------



## 95Viper (May 30, 2021)

OK, stay on topic.
Do not do the "I have the bigger ego/degrees/intelligence or whatever you have".
As, said before... discuss the topic and not each other.

Thank You and Have a Nice Day.


----------



## Shrek (May 31, 2021)

For how long have they been using metal as opposed to metal oxide in thermal grease?
Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - Bing video
2:30
and is this what is making the operating temperatures so low for some pastes?


----------



## Space Lynx (May 31, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> For how long have they been using metal as opposed to metal oxide in thermal grease?
> Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - Bing video
> 2:30



I actually got around to watching that video earlier today, it was very informative. I watched all of it. It was interesting indeed.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 31, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> For how long have they been using metal as opposed to metal oxide in thermal grease?
> Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - Bing video
> 2:30
> and is this what is making the operating temperatures so low for some pastes?


Here's the Youtube version of that;


----------



## ThrashZone (May 31, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> For how long have they been using metal as opposed to metal oxide in thermal grease?
> Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - Bing video
> 2:30
> and is this what is making the operating temperatures so low for some pastes?


Hi,
For as long as pastes have scratched chips lol thermal grizzly comes to mind on that issue.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 1, 2021)

Thermally Conductive Silicone Grease Mil-Spec High Heat Transfer System Industrial Military Grade (conductivex.com)

claim 'Military grade'

Are there any military specs for thermal grease?


----------



## Caring1 (Jun 1, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Are there any military specs for thermal grease?


Fun fact, Grease is a lubricant, intended for the reduction of friction on moving parts.
But I guess you already knew that.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 1, 2021)

Lots of people refer to it as grease; I can refer to paste or compound if you wish.

Best Thermaltake Thermal Grease - 2021 Reviews and Top 16 Choices (spidertools.com)

10 Best Thermal Grease Compounds (wonderfulengineering.com)


----------



## Falkentyne (Jun 1, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Lots of people refer to it as grease; I can refer to paste or compound if you wish.
> 
> Best Thermaltake Thermal Grease - 2021 Reviews and Top 16 Choices (spidertools.com)
> 
> 10 Best Thermal Grease Compounds (wonderfulengineering.com)



FuzeIce Plus seems to be the exact same paste as SYY-157.






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It's possible SYY, FuzeIce Plus and Halnziye HY-P13 are all related, in the same way that TFX and ZF-EX are.
Even the packaging of HY-P13 and SYY is the same.






						New product--Super High Performance Thermal Grease HY-P13_Shenzhen Halnziye Electronics Co., Ltd.
					

New product--Super High Performance Thermal Grease HY-P13-Shenzhen Halnziye Electronics Co., Ltd.-New product HY-P13




					www.halnziye.net
				



the words "make your cooling life" on the Halnziye website are the same words on the back of the packaging of SYY.  Might be the same factories involved.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 1, 2021)

Shifting across to metals, I wonder about galvanic corrosion
Brake Grease vs Anti Seize – Which Is Best For Your Brakes? – Grease Expert
talks about the possibility of Galvanic corrosion from anti-seize copper grease.

This might explain the use of Zinc and Aluminum but not Copper in thermal paste.
Galvanic Corrosion – PennEngineering (pemnet.com)

If I am making this more complicated than it needs to be, just shout.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 2, 2021)

Ok folks, testing is done.

Let's state the particulars.

The system being used is a Dell Precision T3500 with an Intel Xeon W3680 using the stock cooler and a steady state 3700RPM 92mm fan. The testing software was Prime95. Temp monitoring software is HWInfo. The thermal interface materials being tested are as follows:
Dragon Star DRG102, compound very similar to Arctic Silver 5
Automotive Copper thread grease
Noctua NT-H1
Arctic Cooling MX-5

The tests were conducted as follows:
3 runs of 2 stages of Prime95 calculations which run for a little over 11 minutes per each TIM.

Here is how each was applied. I did not take photos of the Noctua NT-H1 as I forgot to. It didn't look any different than the DRG102.

DRG102


Copper Grease


MX-5


As you can see, I spread the TIM out in very thin layers. The DRG102 and Copper Grease were the easiest to spread evenly. NT-H1 was a little more difficult but only a bit. MX-5 was a bit of challenge but with a few minutes of work it spread out fine. It is as "sticky" as everyone claims of course, however this is a minor thing.

Here are the test results.

Dragon Star DRG102



This performance ranks third best in the tests.

Automotive Cooper thread grease



This performance ranks fourth in the tests.

Noctua NT-H1



This performance was second best in the tests.

Arctic Cooling MX-5



This performance was the best of the tests.

My conclusion is that MX-5 is a very impressive TIM. It bested NT-H1 by several degrees C in both idle and full load tests. It also bested the DRG102 handily. The copper grease proved inferior to the rest, even though the temps were within reason as expected given that the compound was used in this same system for nearly a year and performed well. NT-H1 is widely regarded as a premium TIM and has shown itself to be an excellent performer. For MX-5 to perform better than such shows it to be, at the very least, competitive with premium TIM's and at most superior to many of the of the top shelf brand TIMs.

The screenshots are here for you all to draw your own conclusions though.

*IMPORTANT EDIT*;
For the record, this testing was done as much for fun as it was out of scientific, professional and personal curiosity. The testing methodologies used are based on known valid methods but are NOT all inclusive. I'm NOT going to test every TIM on the market, nor am I going to test on a multitude of platforms. These tests are focused on the topic of discussion here, Arctic Cooling MX-5. I deliberately chose to use a TIM that is a budget known good performer, a product not specifically designed for the purpose at hand(for giggles and to be an odd-ball) and a TIM that is considered to be a premium product for testing against MX-5.

That said, if you have a problem or complaint about the testing methods used or the fact that the products tested were limited, feel free to buy your own products to test, spend your own time conducting said testing and then post your own results. Whining about what I did or didn't do that somehow doesn't meet with your satisfaction will only earn you an unpleasant reaction, which will likely include open and public mocking.

Only warning.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 2, 2021)

Hi,
Nice but you really need a new wallpaper lol 

Tightened my water block on 9940x with mx-5 and core temp spread is now a lot better 38-42c on just a little 4.2 everyday clock I use not bad on 14 cores might crank it up this weekend see what happens at 4.9

Before temps were whack bad highest was 49c think I said earlier on this thread.
Funny how pressure helps and I thought all four were pretty evenly tightened but I do not spread very often I use x method


----------



## Shrek (Jun 2, 2021)

Any great advantage applying it to both surfaces?

I'd still argue that since most any good TIM gives good results, longevity is important and wish you had included the infamous 40% diaper cream as that gave good results for me (as good as GD900) and might drive a comparison on more than just temperature.

Just in case it comes up, I am *NOT* suggesting the real life use of 40% diaper cream, but I find it sobering that it performs so well. Anyone willing to test it (to verify my results)?


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Jun 2, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Any great advantage applying it to both surfaces?



Cryorig instructions recommend tinting the cold plate, so I'm inclined to say "probably".


----------



## Secret Rival (Jun 2, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> yeah I saw that when I ordered. for ten cents its worth it imo, just in case.  lol also the little spatula might come in handy for other stuff so meh.



If you've seen the movie 'Stripes', then you know it's always wise to keep a spatula handy.


----------



## Falkentyne (Jun 2, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok folks, testing is done.
> 
> Let's state the particulars.
> 
> ...



MX-5 is indeed impressive on a desktop CPU or a video card.
It's atrocious on laptops though.  Too thin.  Same problem as "new" KPx (old KPx was awesome on laptops).


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 2, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Any great advantage applying it to both surfaces?


Yes. I've found over the years that applying a very thin layer to both surfaces renders the best results over any other method of application.



Falkentyne said:


> It's atrocious on laptops though. Too thin. Same problem as "new" KPx (old KPx was awesome on laptops).


Not true. I've already applied MX-5 to several laptops, including 2 of my own, and the results were equally impressive.



80-watt Hamster said:


> Cryorig instructions recommend tinting the cold plate, so I'm inclined to say "probably".


"tinting" What does that mean in the context of applying a TIM to a surface?


----------



## Shrek (Jun 2, 2021)

For me, the problem with all this testing is that I am tempted to draw the conclusion 'it doesn't really matter what one uses, the difference is minor'

I know that isn't true, but that is the impression I get.


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## Borc (Jun 2, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yes. I've found over the years that applying a very thin layer to both surfaces renders the best results over any other method of application.
> 
> 
> Not true. I've already applied MX-5 to several laptops, including 2 of my own, and the results were equally as impressive.
> ...




Impressive to what? What paste did you compare? Performance depends on the contact anyways, MX5 could work on a laptop with a good contact, however the best laptop pastes should beat MX5 convincingly. edit, based on your posting in #520 you didn't test any of the top laptop pastes. The only meaningful comparison is Noctua NT-H1 which is outdated, Noctua NT-H2 would be more interesting.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 2, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> For me, the problem with all this testing is that I am tempted to draw the conclusion 'it doesn't really matter what one uses, the difference is minor'
> 
> I know that isn't true, but that is the impression I get.



I'm pretty sure it is true actually. lol which is why I decided to stop caring and just stick with my mx-5. if you can get official mx-4 direct from arctic store though, i think mx-4 is worth it, same price and 2 celsius better. at least for me. but since I have mx-5 meh.


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## Shrek (Jun 2, 2021)

OK, if MX-4 is 'better' than MX-5... what has MX-5 got to offer?

Top Thermal Paste for All CPU Coolers | ARCTIC
"The MX-5 impresses with ideal thermal properties, guaranteeing reliable heat dissipation over long periods of time."

perhaps it is longevity


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## Space Lynx (Jun 2, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> OK, if MX-4 is 'better' than MX-5... what has MX-5 got to offer?
> 
> Top Thermal Paste for All CPU Coolers | ARCTIC
> "The MX-5 impresses with ideal thermal properties, guaranteeing reliable heat dissipation over long periods of time."
> ...



mx-4 also advertises 8 years though on the packaging.  that's the problem, i think both are the same mostly, mx-5 maybe was just some cost saving measures? i dunno maybe mx-4 was costing them to much make so they switched to a more sustainable paste for the long term. prob not, just an idea


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## toilet pepper (Jun 2, 2021)

I just used the Thermalright TFX on my RTX 3080 and I can say it improved the core temp by 3-4C compared to MX4. The application was a pain though. It had the consistency of sticky rice all squeezed together in a tube. The spatula had more paste than the die.


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## 80-watt Hamster (Jun 2, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> "tinting" What does that mean in the context of applying a TIM to a surface?



Exactly what you did:  a very thin, bordering on translucent layer.  Although it's possible I'm mis-remembering the exact term used.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 2, 2021)

Borc said:


> Impressive to what? What paste did you compare? Performance depends on the contact anyways, MX5 could work on a laptop with a good contact, however the best laptop pastes should beat MX5 convincingly. edit, based on your posting in #520 you didn't test any of the top laptop pastes. The only meaningful comparison is Noctua NT-H1 which is outdated, Noctua NT-H2 would be more interesting.


If you don't like what I posted, buy your own samples of TIMs, do your own tests and post your own results.


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## Shrek (Jun 2, 2021)

80-watt Hamster said:


> Exactly what you did:  a very thin, bordering on translucent layer.  Although it's possible I'm mis-remembering the exact term used.



Makes one wonder if a surfactant is involved.

NOW I am overthinking things...


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 2, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Makes one wonder if a surfactant is involved.


That's possible.



Andy Shiekh said:


> NOW I am overthinking things...


Maybe just a bit... 

I was perfectly happy with the TIMs I had previously. Now that I've seen MX-5 and NT-H1 in action, the comparison to how far the science of TIM formulation has come is impressive. MX-4 was good and still is. But I have run tests like this before and against the DRG102 as a baseline. MX-4 did not perform as well as the NT-H1 and MX-5 when comparing relative margins.

I think MX-5 will now be my go-to TIM going forward.


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## Shrek (Jun 2, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> If you don't like what I posted, buy your own samples of TIMs, do your own tests and post your own results.


Yeah... I'm sore that you didn't include diaper cream... sorry, couldn't resist the pun

In reality let me thank you once again for taking the time to test all those pastes (I'm not allowed to call them greases)


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## Space Lynx (Jun 2, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> I just used the Thermalright TFX on my RTX 3080 and I can say it improved the core temp by 3-4C compared to MX4. The application was a pain though. It had the consistency of sticky rice all squeezed together in a tube. The spatula had more paste than the die.
> 
> 
> View attachment 202594



that tfx stuff sounds pretty great. if mx-5 made me lose 2 celsius... over mx-4, and that made you gain 3-4 celsius over mx-4 i could be looking at a net gain of 5-6 celsius over mx-5... that's no joke.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 2, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> In reality let me thank you once again for taking the time to test


You're welcome. I actually do this every few years just to keep up on the best TIMs in the industry. Wasn't going to do another round of testing until next year, but the debate in this thread intrigued me. This is the first time I've publicly posted my efforts and results.



Andy Shiekh said:


> (I'm not allowed to call them greases)


That's why you see me calling them " TIM ". That's what they are, Thermal Interface Materials.


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## Shrek (Jun 2, 2021)

Now that I have 120g of GD900 I don't think I'll be changing anytime soon.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 2, 2021)

For those who might have complaints, please see edit at the bottom of post #520.


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## toilet pepper (Jun 2, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> that tfx stuff sounds pretty great. if mx-5 made me lose 2 celsius... over mx-4, and that made you gain 3-4 celsius over mx-4 i could be looking at a net gain of 5-6 celsius over mx-5... that's no joke.


I dont suggest it though. I just repasted mine as it is very easy to do since my card is already deshrouded and the disassembly is quite easy. It felt like MX4 wasnt up to task with high consistent temps like mining.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Jun 2, 2021)

Mussels said:


> nothing in a PC is gunna run at 120C


*GDDR6X: *allow me to introduce myself


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 3, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> I dont suggest it though. I just repasted mine as it is very easy to do since my card is already deshrouded and the disassembly is quite easy. It felt like MX4 wasnt up to task with high consistent temps like mining.


I wonder how MX-5 would do in your situation...



Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> *GDDR6X: *allow me to introduce myself


No VRAM runs that hot and stays stable.


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## Falkentyne (Jun 3, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yes. I've found over the years that applying a very thin layer to both surfaces renders the best results over any other method of application.
> 
> 
> Not true. I've already applied MX-5 to several laptops, including 2 of my own, and the results were equally as impressive.
> ...


LGA or BGA laptop?
Because BGA Was bad according to rooter (Not talking about video card application).





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Pretty sure the heatsink fit is everything here.  Some of these dellienware tripod heatsinks are worse than atrocious.

I do agree with applying to both surfaces.  I got the best results with TFX on my 3090 FE (full spread and applying a second layer directly on the heatsink itself)+ Gelid Extreme 1.5mm pads.
I believe people talked about 'tinning' the heatsink many years ago but um...I think that was applying a micro residue layer (like as little as possible)? but that definitely doesn't work with TFX.  Gotta do it thick.  For MX-5 and Kryonaut Extreme I just do a normal thin layer on the heatsink and a thicker layer on the GPU.


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## Shrek (Jun 3, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> No VRAM runs that hot and stays stable.


I have always wondered about such heat, is it the silicone that fails or the solder attaching the chip?


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## Falkentyne (Jun 3, 2021)

toilet pepper said:


> I just used the Thermalright TFX on my RTX 3080 and I can say it improved the core temp by 3-4C compared to MX4. The application was a pain though. It had the consistency of sticky rice all squeezed together in a tube. The spatula had more paste than the die.
> 
> 
> View attachment 202594



Spreading TFX Was the most annoying thing in the world.

I couldn't even do it without losing the half (not all) of the freaking tube to the spatula (I was using ZF-EX 2g tubes though, which is the same paste, the TFX itself I did the X pattern + 4 dots in quadrants), until I found this post, which explained how to spread TFX easier.  You basically have to yeet it right away and then apply an even stroke to it.






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When I used that exact method (except on a much larger 3090 die rather than smaller laptop chips), I got a nice complete thick spread.
End result: 3 weeks later, core to core hotspot temp deltas are almost the same as day 1, sometimes varying by 1C depending on when I test it or how the chip cools earlier (Delta ranges from 10.0C to 11.6C depending on power limit and what I'm running.  Had 9.9C at 530W last night, 10.1C this morning.  Then 10.6C two days ago, whatever...).

That being said, TFX wet vs dry consistency can vary wildly.

I had several 2g Thermagic ZF-EX tubes (still three unopened ones left, the current opened one is perfect).  One of them was the consistency of rubber.  Almost like there was no liquid left lol.  Only way to apply that was X + dots pattern.  The very next one was perfect consistency (still super thick with most sticking to the spatula).  The one I spread fully manually on my 3090 FE was the perfect one.  Same thing with the TFX.  I've had four total 6.2g tubes.  Two: absolutely perfect.  One tube: a bit "too" perfect (actually seemed a slightly bit wetter than normal, even wetter than the perfect ZF-EX).  Fourth tube: dry as living hell (still came out of the syringe fine though).  No way you're spreading the "super dry" ones.  The method I linked screenshots above works fine with the 'wet' or 'normal' consistency tubes.  The super dry ones--no chance in hell.

I wasted way too much expensive TFX and ZF-EX messing around with my 3090 FE  and different thermal pads until I found the Gelid Extreme 1.5mm soft pads.



Andy Shiekh said:


> I have always wondered about such heat, is it the silicone that fails or the solder attaching the chip?



RTX "Space Invaders" (Turing cards) happened because the solder got loose on the BGA chip closest to the PCIE slot due to crappy soldering and very high heat (an expert solderer from Germany found this out by testing).


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## Shrek (Jun 3, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Fourth tube: dry as living hell


TIMs that are drying out in storage scare me, unless they are designed to dry out

I have some that is perhaps 30 years old and it seems the exact same as it was when new.

Silicone oil should be good to 500°C; Zinc Oxide much higher.


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## Falkentyne (Jun 3, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> TIMs that are drying out in storage scare me, unless they are designed to dry out
> 
> I have some that is perhaps 30 years old and it seems the exact same as it was when new.


Probably a batch problem.  Package was sealed tight and completely locked down.
My "super wet" TFX sample is just sitting in a ziploc bag (not airtight) with the lid closed and hasn't dried one bit. Wonder if the storage temp or location has something to do with the iffy tubes...
Because I purchased a bunch of ZF-EX from the same supplier in China, all at the same time.  One tube was really dry, it would barely even stick to the die when pushing the plunger!  The next tube was absolutely perfect (for TFX of course, still going to stick to the spatula unless you do the spread method I posted above).  No idea how it could vary that much.

BTW Andy you should try SYY-157.  Probably the most pleasing paste I've ever used.
Thicker than Kryonaut Extreme, MUCH easier to spread than TFX, performs the same as TFX and doesn't cost your liver, kidney or firstborn son to purchase.


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## freeagent (Jun 3, 2021)

I love the performance of TFX. I dislike how long you have to futz with it when you are applying it. And I also dislike the price. But it really does work well.. best I’ve used so far.. I’m going to try SYY-157 if I can find it.


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## Shrek (Jun 3, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> BTW Andy you should try SYY-157.


And therein lies my problem... sure I could look at temperatures, but what really counts for longevity is pump-out and that needs thousands of thermal cycles.

I don't mean to downplay all the work on temperatures, but it is a bit like comparing one car against another by top speed when there are so many more criterion, many much more important. That is why I keep returning to longevity (leaving cost aside)

This is where I am wondering if a future generation of TIMs will include surfactants that will have the surface tension refill the gap between chip and heatsink.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 3, 2021)

You would know when you saw it that it won’t suffer the effects you speak of


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 3, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> BGA laptop?


Both are BGA...


Falkentyne said:


> Because BGA Was bad according to rooter


Those were his tests. Those results are relative to the methodology used to do the testing which I suspect has a few flaws.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 3, 2021)

freeagent said:


> You would know when you saw it that it won’t suffer the effects you speak of


I would almost disagree with you, but I recall the move from conventional motor oil to synthetic and how much more the synthetic would stick; that is why I have been bringing up the idea of surfactants.

OK, now I agree with the earlier comment that I am overthinking this all.

Longevity tests (including pump-out) are simply outside of the hobbyist ability and we need to leave that to the likes of industry.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 3, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Pretty sure the heatsink fit is everything here.  Some of these dellienware tripod heatsinks are worse than atrocious.
> 
> I do agree with applying to both surfaces. For MX-5 and Kryonaut Extreme I just do a normal thin layer on the heatsink and a thicker layer on the GPU.



That's a good point. You'd think it obvious but apparently not for my smooth brain 

When I repasted my XPS 13 9370 I found that Dell was using this hard slab of "thermal paste" that was at least 1mm thick. Had to scrape it off the copper contact plate with a metal spudger, it was that tough even against 99%IPA. I watched some Conductonaut tutorials for the 9370 on Youtube and it looked like they just applied the usual thin layer on both die+heatsink so I just gave it a liberal dose of MX-4 thinking it was enough. Smooth brain moment.

Put it together and it's been getting even worse thermals than stock ever since. Now that I have time I've been considering experimenting with Conductonaut, but now that you mention it, I think I'll try putting a layer on both the heatsink and the die. Problem is, I worry that MX-4 is too runny for this, but it's the only paste I have in sufficient quantities for this.

And the fact that it's a pain to open up because I cut 8 of my fingers at once on the knife-sharp inner edge of the aluminium bottom cover last time not using gloves. But I reckon I should give it another shot since it'll probably be replaced by an iPad anyways in the near future now that studies are finally over.

If it's too runny I suppose I could buy a tube of NT-H2.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 3, 2021)

Want a really crazy idea? how about using a ferro-fluid with a magnet mounted at the center of the heatsink

Ferrofluid - Wikipedia

Now the fluid will return after being pumped out...



tabascosauz said:


> I found that Dell was using this hard slab of "thermal paste" that was at least 1mm thick.
> Put it together and it's been getting even worse thermals than stock ever since.


Amazing how maybe our fancy stuff can't outdo what we thought was bad.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 3, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> OK, now I agree with the earlier comment that I am overthinking this all.


To be fair, at least you're thinking things over. There are those who spout out rubbish without thinking things through. So no worries.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 3, 2021)

At the risk of repetition, looking again at my measurements


Thermal Interface Material (TIM)Temperature

None

84°C
SuperLube thermal compound
72°C
Petroleum Jelly
71°C
Diaper cream (40%)
68°C
GD900
68°C

Taken at face value, I would be using diaper cream or petroleum jelly over SuperLube thermal compound; for me that emphasizes the dangers of just relying on temperature performance as I have come to the absolutely ridiculous conclusion that diaper cream is a good TIM

This is the reason why I feel it is so very important to include diaper cream.


----------



## Borc (Jun 3, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> If you don't like what I posted, buy your own samples of TIMs, do your own tests and post your own results.



I'm doing all of this, don't worry. I'm just curious what do you mean with impressive, is it too much to ask for? You would need to compare MX5 with several of the top performer to really know. Noctua NT-H1 has been released in 2007, it's old. If MX5 is on par with this paste it would imply MX5 is down several degrees compared to the best. Try out SYY-157 if you can.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 3, 2021)

Borc said:


> I'm doing all of this, don't worry.


Make sure you take pictures and screenshots.


Borc said:


> I'm just curious what do you mean with impressive, *is it too much to ask for*?


Given the attitude you displayed? Hell yes.


Borc said:


> You would need to compare MX5 with several of the top performer to really know.


No. I do as I see fit and compare to what I had on hand.


Borc said:


> Noctua NT-H1 has been released in 2007, it's old.


I actually ordered 3.5g NT-H2 but Amazon canceled the order and I wasn't going to spend more on what ultimately was a personal experiment. Additionally, AGE does NOT define usefulness. Arctic Silver 5 is STILL a competitive TIM after decades. Let that sink in.


Borc said:


> If MX5 is on par with this paste it would imply MX5 is down several degrees compared to the best.


Yes, several degrees, as in less than 5C. Given testing found elsewhere on the net, MX-5 is less than 4C away from the top performers and yet costs a fraction of those "top tier" brands.

The reasons for doing this testing are defined in the edit at the bottom of the results post(#520). I didn't do it to be competitive, nor am I going to explain myself to anyone giving a less than friendly/respectful attitude.


Borc said:


> Try out SYY-157 if you can.


No Thanks. I'm complete satisfied with what I've got..


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 4, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> At the risk of repetition, looking again at my measurements
> 
> 
> Thermal Interface Material (TIM)Temperature
> ...


Hi,
With diaper cream around maybe add vagisil too


----------



## Shrek (Jun 4, 2021)

And here was me thinking that maybe I had a valid point with 40% Zinc Oxide; I should have stuck with Zinc Oxide ointment, although most is only 20% strength.

My point is that all these temperature tests are just a small part of the story if 40% 'ointment' looks so good under such tests, but for some strange reason nobody else seems willing to try.

The joke is on me.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 4, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> The joke is on me.


Not really. The reason I originally tested the copper grease is because I already had some and then bought different branded tube for giggles. My main concern was this: You are suggesting using a product that is formulated for use with human skin. Copper grease is formulated to be used in automotive and industrial applications, so transferring usage to a computer environment is not a stretch. Transferring a skin cream to use in a PC is more worrisome as the chemistry for the suspension material might react poorly to the temperature ranges involved. Making something for use in machines is very different than making something for use on skin.

It's not a risk I'm willing to take.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 4, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not really. The reason I originally tested the copper grease is because I already had some and then bought different branded tube for giggles. My main concern was this: You are suggesting using a product that is formulated for use with human skin. Copper grease is formulated to be used in automotive and industrial applications, so transferring usage to a computer environment is not a stretch. Transferring a skin cream to use in a PC is more worrisome as the chemistry for the suspension material might react poorly to the temperature ranges involved. Making something for use in machines is very different than making something for use on skin.
> 
> It's not a risk I'm willing to take.



when are you expecting your tests to be posted?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 4, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> when are you expecting your tests to be posted?


What? I did. See post #520. Did you really miss them?








						[EOL] Arctic MX-5 is here!!Tests incoming! Completed.  Now its MX-6 testing time!
					

Oh I'll pass on that.  That's specifically for TFX.   (I got the best results on my 3090 FE (most stable core temp deltas) applying it like that. SYY-157 still needs full coverage but is easier to get on.  Anyone here use SYY-157 yet?




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 5, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> What? I did. See post #520. Did you really miss them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I did. I can't keep up with this thread. lol


----------



## Falkentyne (Jun 5, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> What? I did. See post #520. Did you really miss them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm still curious how this material will perform.  The Kopr-Kote was tested, but this one seems interesting to see if it's any better.  Still hoping I can test it next month if my living situation improves.






						Amazon.com: Jet-Lube SS-30 - Pure Copper | High Temperature | Anti-Seize | Military Grade | Environmentally Preferred | Thread Compound | 1/4 Lb.: Industrial & Scientific
					

Amazon.com: Jet-Lube SS-30 - Pure Copper | High Temperature | Anti-Seize | Military Grade | Environmentally Preferred | Thread Compound | 1/4 Lb.: Industrial & Scientific



					www.amazon.com


----------



## crispysilicon (Jun 5, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> And here was me thinking that maybe I had a valid point with 40% Zinc Oxide; I should have stuck with Zinc Oxide ointment, although most is only 20% strength.
> 
> My point is that all these temperature tests are just a small part of the story if 40% 'ointment' looks so good under such tests, but for some strange reason nobody else seems willing to try.
> 
> The joke is on me.


Try https://www.permatex.com/products/l...i-seize/permatex-copper-anti-seize-lubricant/


----------



## Shrek (Jun 5, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> It's not a risk I'm willing to take.


I respect your opinion, even if I don't understand it.



crispysilicon said:


> Try https://www.permatex.com/products/l...i-seize/permatex-copper-anti-seize-lubricant/


The point I was/am trying to make is that temperature performance is not very useful; 40% ointment was all I needed to make that point.


----------



## Falkentyne (Jun 5, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Only suggesting a few minutes run and then at less than 100C; but I respect your opinion, even if I don't understand it.


You need to do these tests yourself, Andy, not ask other people to risk their hardware for you.  It's really not nice to expect someone to do that, especially in this current market.
I'm already willing to buy that 30% copper anti-seize thing I posted above, when my income situation allows me to, and that's already putting hardware at risk using stuff like that.
I almost *destroyed* my (almost worthless now) backup video card trying to do this crap for someone who suggested a certain paste would be a good idea after the material hardened completely and the card reached 95C in 5 seconds...


----------



## Shrek (Jun 5, 2021)

I ALREADY DID! Now I'm getting annoyed.









						[EOL] Arctic MX-5 is here!!Tests incoming! Completed.  Now its MX-6 testing time!
					

Doesn't that happen with all compounds eventually?  Depends on the compound.  I thought drying/caking was bad. It happened to me with AS5.   Mine killed a gpu, but back then they only held it down with spring loaded pins.  If it was a video card that didn't have a fan or had a crap fan, that's...




					www.techpowerup.com
				












						[EOL] Arctic MX-5 is here!!Tests incoming! Completed.  Now its MX-6 testing time!
					

BTW Andy you should try SYY-157.  And therein lies my problem... sure I could look at temperatures, but what really counts for longevity is pump-out and that needs thousands of thermal cycles.  I don't mean to downplay all the work on temperatures, but it is a bit like comparing one car against...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 5, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I did. I can't keep up with this thread. lol


No worries! I know how you feel!



Andy Shiekh said:


> I respect your opinion, even if I don't understand it.


It's a risk factor thing. I use the system that was utilized for testing. When older, it's still a usable system I care about. Not eager damage it. Skin creams are just too risky for my comfort level.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 5, 2021)

That's fine, I've already done the testing and was amazed how it was as good as GD900. I was just wondering if someone wanted to check the results and while I feel there is no short term risk I did say I respected the decision not to try.

That said, I only tried it for a few minutes to get the measurement and then moved to the next trial; I suspect it is not a good long term solution (the whole point I am trying to make concerning longevity).


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 5, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I ALREADY DID! Now I'm getting annoyed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


While I feel you, this thread is 23 pages long and we can't expect everyone to have read through the whole thing... Heck, @lynx29 missed my huge test results spread entirely and he was looking forward to it! LOL!



Andy Shiekh said:


> That's fine, I've already done the testing and was amazed it was as good as GD900
> 
> My point is made; I was just wondering if someone wanted to check the results.


You have given none of us any reason not to trust your results. The reason I went through the effort of posting screenshots is for due diligence but also because there are people in this forum who don't like me and have a habit of nit-picking what I say so I wanted to shut them up before they complained... Taking screen shots and pictures is a good rule of thumb anyway, but neither of us are conducting professional reviews, this is all out of fun. So it's all good mate, no worries!


----------



## Shrek (Jun 5, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> While I feel you, this thread is 23 pages long and we can't expect everyone to have read through the whole thing... Heck, @lynx29 missed my huge test results spread entirely and he was looking forward to it! LOL!
> 
> 
> You have given none of us any reason not to trust your results. The reason I went through the effort of posting screenshots is for due diligence but also because there are people in this forum who don't like me and have a habit of nit-picking what I say so I wanted to shut them up before they complained... Taking screen shots and pictures is a good rule of thumb anyway, but neither of us are conducting professional reviews, this is all out of fun. So it's all good mate, no worries!


You are right, it has been a long and winding road; I should not expect everyone to have read all 23 pages.

Trust no one... haven't you been watching X-files ; anyhow, you know how science goes, results need confirmation.

I actually find it utterly ridiculous that ointment should be able to run with the pack... (short term)


Someone might want to try dielectric grease; it claims high thermal conductivity (this I don't believe) but it is good to 400°F
Technical_Data_Sheet_Silicone_Dielectric_Vacuum_Grease.pdf (super-lube.com)
0.16 W/K m

I already tried petroleum jelly and it wasn't that great even if it beat SuperLube thermal compound, and yes I understand why one might not want to risk trying this.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 5, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Someone might want to try dielectric grease; it claims high thermal conductivity (this I don't believe) but it is good to 400°F
> Technical_Data_Sheet_Silicone_Dielectric_Vacuum_Grease.pdf (super-lube.com)
> 0.16 W/K m
> 
> I already tried petroleum jelly and it wasn't that great even if it beat SuperLube thermal compound, and yes I understand why one might not want to risk trying this.


I actually have some of that very grease.  I use it to service & relube fan bearings. I tried it at one point more than a year ago when I first tried out the copper grease. It did not perform well, thermally. The CPU was edging near thermal throttle. I killed the test part way through. Just didn't document it at the time. Can't remember if I mentioned it in the thread of discussion back then..


----------



## XT785 (Jun 5, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I actually have some of that very grease.  I use it to service & relube fan bearings. I tried it at one point more than a year ago when I first tried out the copper grease. It did not perform well, thermally. The CPU was edging near thermal throttle. I killed the test part way through. Just didn't document it at the time. Can't remember if I mentioned it in the thread of discussion back then..


Hi! Which paste would you recommend for laptop direct dies in terms of longevity and no pump-out? Thanks!


----------



## Falkentyne (Jun 5, 2021)

XT785 said:


> Hi! Which paste would you recommend for laptop direct dies in terms of longevity and no pump-out? Thanks!


I thought this was answered several times already.

Thermalright TFX (probably most durable but most difficult to spread, try a hair dryer or boil the syringe first (let it cool down before handling).
SYY 157 / FuzeIce Plus / Maxtor CTG9 (these all seem to be the exact same paste.  Very similar in behavior to TFX but much easier to spread than TFX, still thick.  SYY-157 is the cheapest price, $13 for 8 grams on Amazon from "TG-US").


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 6, 2021)

XT785 said:


> Hi! Which paste would you recommend for laptop direct dies in terms of longevity and no pump-out? Thanks!


I have seen no evidence of "pump-out effect"... ever, with any TIM. Worrying about it is as effective as trying to put C3PO back together with bubblegum.

That said, "dry-out" is actually a real problem but the effect of which will vary from TIM to TIM. MX-5 will not suffer from that problem due to it's formulation. So MX-5 is good choice. MX-4(if you can find it) is also a good choice. However, pretty much any quality TIM will work well for you in a laptop.

BTW, Welcome to TPU!


----------



## nguyen (Jun 6, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I have seen no evidence of "pump-out effect"... ever, with any TIM. Worrying about it is as effective as trying to put C3PO back together with bubblegum.
> 
> That said, "dry-out" is actually a real problem but the effect of which vary from TIM to TIM. MX-5 will not suffer from that problem due to it's formulation. So MX-5 is good choice. MX-4(if you can find it) is also a good choice. However, pretty much any quality TIM will work well for you in a laptop.
> 
> BTW, Welcome to TPU!



Pumping out is very real on laptop, MX4 and Kryonaut wouldn't last more than a few months before sign of degradation show up, lots of TPU forum users already reported it.



XT785 said:


> Hi! Which paste would you recommend for laptop direct dies in terms of longevity and no pump-out? Thanks!



Like @Falkentyne said, Thermalright TF-X is currently the best TIM suited for laptop, I have had TF-X for a year now on my 10875H + 2070 Super laptop and thermal performance is still top notch.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 6, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Pumping out is very real on laptop, MX4 and Kryonaut wouldn't last more than a few months before sign of degradation show up, lots of TPU forum users already reported it.


I've never seen this and I work on laptops all the time. MX-4 performance never degrades. I don't know where all this talk about "pump-out effect" is coming from but I call complete BS. 



nguyen said:


> Thermalright TF-X is currently the best TIM suited for laptop


Ok, go with that. TFX has been test and seems to perform very well if you want to spend the money. Examples;
Thermalright TFX $14





						Amazon.com: Thermalright TFX Thermal Compound Paste 14.3 W/Mk, Carbon Based High Performance, Heatsink Paste, CPU for All Coolers, Interface Material, 2 g with Tool: Computers & Accessories
					

Buy Thermalright TFX Thermal Compound Paste 14.3 W/Mk, Carbon Based High Performance, Heatsink Paste, CPU for All Coolers, Interface Material, 2 g with Tool: Heatsinks - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				




MX-4 $7





						Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-4 (4 Grams) - Thermal Compound Paste, Carbon Based High Performance, Heatsink Paste, Thermal Compound CPU for All Coolers, Thermal Interface Material: Computers & Accessories
					

Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-4 (4 Grams) - Thermal Compound Paste, Carbon Based High Performance, Heatsink Paste, Thermal Compound CPU for All Coolers, Thermal Interface Material: Computers & Accessories



					www.amazon.com
				




MX-5 $7





						Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-5 (4 g Incl. Spatula) - Quality Thermal Paste for All CPU Coolers Extremely high Thermal Conductivity Low Thermal Resistance Long Durability Metal-Free Non-Conductive Non-capacitive: Computers & Accessories
					

Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-5 (4 g Incl. Spatula) - Quality Thermal Paste for All CPU Coolers Extremely high Thermal Conductivity Low Thermal Resistance Long Durability Metal-Free Non-Conductive Non-capacitive: Computers & Accessories



					www.amazon.com


----------



## nguyen (Jun 6, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, go with that. TFX has been test and seems to perform very well if you want to spend the money. Examples;
> Thermalright TFX $14
> 
> 
> ...



1-time application of TF-X would last forever on laptop while you would be replacing MX4 every 2-3months or at best every 6months so comparing price of TIM is futile.

And what do you mean "work on laptops"? do you mean replacing the TIM and give it back to customers or you have a high end gaming laptop yourself? because you need to check the thermal every now and then to know if there is any degradation.


----------



## Falkentyne (Jun 6, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I've never seen this and I work on laptops all the time. MX-4 performance never degrades. I don't know where all this talk about "pump-out effect" is coming from but I call complete BS.
> 
> 
> Ok, go with that. TFX has been test and seems to perform very well if you want to spend the money. Examples;
> ...


Nguyen is right on this.  Check notebookreview forums.  There are posts everywhere in almost all of the sections about degrading paste performance.  Most are in the Alienware sections, and some discussion in random MSI BGAbook and some Clevo sections.   The overwhelming complaints however are in the Dellienware sections, with the Tripod imbalanced heatsinks and warped cold plates and imperfect mounts (did anyone really think a heatsink with three screws was a good idea?).

I dealt with this pump out effect _extensively_ on my own MSI Titan.  When I first used Kryonaut, I had to deal with high core temp deltas (core #1 being like 8C hotter than core #0), which I was only able to fix by using thinner VRM thermal pads and playing musical chairs with screwing down the heatsink a certain way.  But after a few days, up to one week, sure enough, I noticed the core temp deltas doing the "Runaway temps" thing.  Then I realized what the other users were finally dealing with.  And sure enough, whenever I saw the core temp deltas reach 10C, I took off the heatsink and noticed most of the thermal paste was outside of the core.  Yikes.

That's your pump out.

Some users have had MX-4 dry out--basically the paste separating from the oil due to extremely high heat on direct die (MX4 doesn't exactly like 99C temps).  So you ended up with paste around the edge of the entire CPU, and swimmy liquidy material on the core.

I managed to get it somewhat stabilized with a LOT of work, but I still couldn't get the core temp deltas below 6C.  So I started buying other pastes.  I tried Phobya Nanogrease Extreme first, but that degraded *faster* than Kryonaut!  Even though the initial temps were 1C cooler.  And I'm very OCD about this stuff.  Then I switched to Coolermaster Gel Maker Nano.  That was more stable for a little while (although performed worse than Kryonaut) but even that pumped out.

So then I moved to liquid metal.  Conductonaut.

I applied it, got nice temps at first, but after about one week, I saw the core deltas slowly getting away from each other.  At that point I knew exactly what was going on.  The temps were still better than Kryonaut.  So I left it on for about a month and just dealt with it.  After a month....10C core temp deltas and temps were WORSE than Kryonaut was on a fresh application.

I took off the heatsink and noticed ALL of the LM had hardened and was nothing but an oxidized layer.  I never even realized something like that was possible.   I scrubbed all of it off, applied a new layer and temps were back to normal, maybe 1C worse, but the same issue stared slowly happening again.

Thats when i got into heatsink modding.  I ordered a spare heatsink from MSI (From Tom Ho, from their parts department) and sanded the heatsink as flat as possible.  First I polished it to 5000 grit, however I remember people on the Clevo section of NBR saying that LM hates polished surfaces (I later found this out the hard way with my delidded 9900k and IHS underside)  and again had some long term issues, so I roughened the heatsink up with 1500 grit, (this was after I found out what to do with my 9900k IHS and seeing how LM tends to "pool to itself slowly" on fully polished surfaces under compression--very  poor wetting ability!)), and then spread the LM (without applying downwards pressure) for about 15 minutes around the entire HS until it stared becoming "thicker" (due to gallium absorption slowly into the roughened surface), applied a second layer on top, mounted it, and bam: perfect temps.  2C core temp delta max.

It's been almost 2 years now and still the same 2C core temp delta, with a perfectly flat heatsink and roughened surface and LM.
I even wrote a guide on notebookreview about how I helped address the LM on copper heatsink durability issue.
Papusan has his own method--he applies LM on IHS and heatsink, bakes it in an oven at 100C for two hours (as long as the heatsink is safe to bake), then removes the parts from the oven, wipes off the old LM, leaving the silver stain behind, then reapplies new LM on top.  Gives 1+ year durability since the high heat caused early gallium absorption (thus limiting the battery effect (CU->GA differential) from a new LM layer).

Unfortunately I didn't test regular paste with the sanded heatsink, so I can't give you the results of that.  But pumpout is very real, and it all depends on how well the laptop is designed and how balanced the heatsink is.  Imperfect heatsinks + weak PSI pressure + convex cores=durability issues.

BTW I'm the person who 'cracked' the MSI power Limit problem with the 230W (GTX 1070) vs 330W (GTX 1080) limitations (to avoid premature CPU throttling and extremely high battery drain) on TDP modded GTX 1070's that exceeded 200W TDP, via the EC RAM (in RW Everything), to make the laptop think a 1080 was installed instead of a 1070.  So I put in a hell of a lot of time and work in on this stuff.

Anyway I know I linked this thread before, but you should go through it carefully.  You'll find this pump out and dry out information discussed at length.






						TechnologyGuide
					

Thank you for visiting the TechnologyGuide network. Unfortunately, these forums are no longer active. We extend a heartfelt thank you to the entire community for their steadfast support—it is really you, our readers, that drove




					forum.notebookreview.com


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 6, 2021)

nguyen said:


> 1-time application of TF-X would last forever on laptop while you would be replacing MX4 every 2-3months or at best every 6months



what are you smoking bro. you don't have to replace mx-4 or mx-5 that often.  even in 4-6 years these pastes are still fine.


----------



## nguyen (Jun 6, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> what are you smoking bro. you don't have to replace mx-4 or mx-5 that often.  even in 4-6 years these pastes are still fine.



Yeah sure for desktop CPU any TIM is fine for a long time, we are talking about laptop CPU here. 
Choosing the best TIM for laptop is very important as you can improve CPU performance considerably, with ASUS using LM for their 2021 laptops. 

My 10875H with TF-X would beat any laptop with 10980HK with stock TIM in cinebench, the best 14usd I ever spent LOL


----------



## Falkentyne (Jun 6, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Yeah sure for desktop CPU any TIM is fine for a long time, we are talking about laptop CPU here.
> Choosing the best TIM for laptop is very important as you can improve CPU performance considerably, with ASUS using LM for their 2021 laptops.
> 
> My 10875H with TF-X would beat any laptop with 10980HK with stock TIM in cinebench, the best 14usd I ever spent LOL
> ...



That's a 7C temp delta on an 8 core CPU.  That's about the same delta as my delidded 9900k + LM on die + resealed HS + TFX on top.  That's about as good as you can get and shows that Nguyen is on point here.  Without TFX, his delta would probably be 10C or more.  That's some good paste.

For reference, when I had LM (instead of TFX) on the top of my 9900k IHS, the delta was 6C.  Since my 9900k is a test bench now (even my 10900k ES is on standby as I'm on a 11900k), there's no need to have LM on the 9900k anymore.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 6, 2021)

@Falkentyne @nguyen 
The discussion about "pump-out effect" is kinda off-topic here. If you want to continue the discussion, create a new thread dedicated to the subject. 

Additionally, unless you can provide information that has *evidence and merit* it's not worth discussing. If such an effect were real it would have been discovered long ago(decades) and would be common knowledge. It isn't. It's total hogwash. Let it go.

And for the record, where thermal performance is concerned, there are no fundamental differences between desktops and laptops. The physics are the same, the mechanics are the same and the engineering is the same. TIM's will perform *IDENTICALLY* on one VS the other.


----------



## nguyen (Jun 6, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> @Falkentyne @nguyen
> The discussion about "pump-out effect" is kinda off-topic here. If you want to continue the discussion, create a new thread dedicated to the subject.
> 
> Additionally, unless you can provide information that has *evidence and merit* it's not worth discussing. If such an effect were real it would have been discovered long ago(decades) and would be common knowledge. It isn't. It's total hogwash. Let it go.
> ...



Pretty sure this video has been posted before in this thread but it seems that you were "too experienced" to watch through it


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 6, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Pretty sure this video has been posted before in this thread but it seems that you were "too experienced" to watch through it


Got a time index? I did see that video, skimmed through it...

New thread created, let's move this topic of discussion over there;








						"Pump-out Effect" Is it real or is it nonsense? Let's discuss...
					

The subject of "pump-out effect" has been discussed in another thread. We need to bring that discussion here.  I think it's nonsense and isn't something that we users/enthusiast need to worry about, but there is another school of thought. There needs to be testing and experimentation to prove...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## nguyen (Jun 6, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Got a time index? I did see that video, skimmed through it...



Go to 9:00, or if you are too lazy
TL;DR: Curing time is BS, avoiding air bubble in TIM is BS, effect of mounting pressure, pump-out effect is the biggest problem, LM is more effective at high temperature, etc...


----------



## Falkentyne (Jun 6, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Go to 9:00, or if you are too lazy
> TL;DR: Curing time is BS, avoiding air bubble in TIM is BS, effect of mounting pressure, pump-out effect is the biggest problem, LM is more effective at high temperature, etc...


Yeah I remember this video.  Can't believe I managed to sit through all of it.  Good stuff but a little too "Buy my stuff" heavy for me.
Curing is interesting, actually.  I know my TFX temps decreased by 2C after the first week of application on my 10900k.  I assume that's because it's such a thick paste and as it settles through thermal cycling, it gets into the imperfections better with time.  I never saw that with Kryonaut and definitely not with MX-5.


----------



## nguyen (Jun 6, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> That's a 7C temp delta on an 8 core CPU.  That's about the same delta as my delidded 9900k + LM on die + resealed HS + TFX on top.  That's about as good as you can get and shows that Nguyen is on point here.  Without TFX, his delta would probably be 10C or more.  That's some good paste.
> 
> For reference, when I had LM (instead of TFX) on the top of my 9900k IHS, the delta was 6C.  Since my 9900k is a test bench now (even my 10900k ES is on standby as I'm on a 11900k), there's no need to have LM on the 9900k anymore.



Well I tried Kryonaut before TF-X on my Laptop and the Kryonaut pumped out after 1 month, leading CoreT delta of 15C, basically 1 core just hit thermal throttle point way before others , at much much lower TDP too.
I have plenty of other pastes to try out but since TF-X is so good, I'm keeping it as is.




Maybe I will do a test between these: Thermagic ZF-EX, Noctua NT-H2, Kingping KPx, Conductonaut and Hydronaut on an R9 290 GPU later this month


----------



## Falkentyne (Jun 6, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Well I tried Kryonaut before TF-X on my Laptop and the Kryonaut pumped out after 1 month, leading CoreT delta of 15C, basically 1 core just hit thermal throttle point way before others , at much much lower TDP too.
> I have plenty of other pastes to try out but since TF-X is so good, I'm keeping it as is.
> View attachment 202935
> 
> Maybe I will do a test between these: Thermagic ZF-EX, Noctua NT-H2, Kingping KPx, Conductonaut and Hydronaut on an R9 290 GPU later this month



I would test SYY-157.  That's the current paste to give a shot at.
It seems that SYY-157, Maxtor CTG9 (Unconfirmed but from watching a spread video on aliexpress, it acts identically to SYY-157) and FuzeIce Plus are the exact same paste.

ZF-EX is the same as TFX.  Tested them both side by side.  Finger test shows them identical exactly, and identical performance.  Just the usual batch variations like the four 6.2g TFX tubes I've had (some extremely dry/rubbery, some normal, still extremely thick), but one of the TFX tubes was drier than the worst ZF-EX tube (still worked, just could not be spread at all, had to do the X pattern).  The best ZF-EX and best TFX syringes had the exact same consistency.  One of the TFX syringes I had was a bit wetter than any of the others.

Anyway, 


			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079DQS77Q/
		

Grab it while the 15% coupon still works.  Id get the 8g one (comes in two 4g syringes).


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 6, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Anyway,
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079DQS77Q/  Grab it while the 15% coupon still works. Id get the 8g one (comes in two 4g syringes).


Yeah, that's the better deal right now. 4grams is $10, so 8grams for $14 is solid discount...


----------



## Boombastik (Jun 7, 2021)

@Falkentyne i found that the deep cool *z9* don't suffer also from this effect. It is hard and only 20% silicon.


----------



## bobbybluz (Jun 7, 2021)

I want to try a different paste on some GPU's. MX-5 or SYY? I have Amazon Prime and will order it today. What's the consensus? I'm not changing from Gelid GC Extreme on my AIO's and have a nice supply already on hand. I also have MX-4 and a few other brands here as well. The last GPU's I did with MX-4 a few months ago are already running warmer to the point of wanting to repaste them again.
​


----------



## Falkentyne (Jun 7, 2021)

bobbybluz said:


> I want to try a different paste on some GPU's. MX-5 or SYY? I have Amazon Prime and will order it today. What's the consensus? I'm not changing from Gelid GC Extreme on my AIO's and have a nice supply already on hand. I also have MX-4 and a few other brands here as well. The last GPU's I did with MX-4 a few months ago are already running warmer to the point of wanting to repaste them again.
> ​


SYY-157 on Nvidia GPU's or any laptops for sure.
MX-5 on IHS CPU
MX-5 may be fine on AMD GPU's since afaik they are nice and flat and have tons of contact pressure with all the zillions of screws.

I'd get 8g of SYY-157 especially with the double discount (15% off on amazon and a 15% off coupon on top of that).



			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079DQS77Q/
		


And Elmor was impressed with SYY-157.





That's on an IHS.
direct die and GPU's should fare even better (I found SYY-157 to be equal to or 1C *BETTER* than Kryonaut Extreme on my mobile GTX 1070 MXM).


----------



## freeagent (Jun 7, 2021)

I just ordered an 8g tube of SYY-157 for about $10.60USD plus shipping. I am using the TF7 that came with my cooler, but it only had 2 applications in it. This one is a tad thin.. I wont have it for a couple of weeks, as I just made the order and posted here.

And right now I am to snobby to break out my AS5.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 8, 2021)

Hi,
Lots of pastes are within 2c of thermal grizzly kryonaut one being nt-h1 lol


----------



## bobbybluz (Jun 8, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> SYY-157 on Nvidia GPU's or any laptops for sure.
> MX-5 on IHS CPU
> MX-5 may be fine on AMD GPU's since afaik they are nice and flat and have tons of contact pressure with all the zillions of screws.
> 
> ...


8 grams on the way via Amazon Prime for $10.57, here in two days.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> And right now I am to snobby to break out my AS5.


Oh go on, push yourself..


----------



## freeagent (Jun 8, 2021)

Its not terrible, its great for low to mid loads on my 5600X, but at high loads it starts to lose its grip in the low 60s on my other heatsink. I haven't used AS5 on this heatsink yet.  Its easier to see it on an Intel because you can see individual core temps.. pretty helpful.. On my x5690 I try to maintain a 3-6c spread. On my 3770K I am ok with 12c because one core just does its own thing and gives no effs.

Though maybe I should do my own comparo between TF7, AS5 and SYY-157  with very few notes and maybe a few screen caps to show I'm not full of it  

Sitting here doing nothing she will sip on 65w @ the wall.. but load her up full of linpack extreme and she starts pounding back 370w like a big girl. Its actually pretty impressive. My x5690 is fairly similar, except with a decent oc and C1E and SS off she will idle at about 265w.. shes gross. I keep her locked away for good reason.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 8, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Though maybe I should do my own comparo between TF7, AS5 and SYY-157 with very few notes and maybe a few screen caps to show I'm not full of it


Do that and post the results here.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 8, 2021)

Sure, hopefully they lie when they say the end of the month.. but it took 3-4 weeks to get my Thermalright bolt through kit from Nan's. Normally it only take a week or less when I order from there.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 8, 2021)

Hi,
Not sure why noctua added so many alcohol wipes with nt-h2 but it pushed the price way up
The wipes weren't very good either way to wet and took for ever to dry pretty much like the paste too way to wet.
Put some tg hydronaut on my 10900k last Friday evening and reapplied 9940x with mx-5.
Too busy to do much atm.


----------



## turbogear (Jun 12, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> what about thermal grizzly conductonaut?  I got 20 celsius drop in temps from that on my laptop... desktops don't see that kind of gain but i think they still can get a 5-10 celsius drop from conductnaut depending on the cooler used.


I used Conductonaut  on the 6900XTU Liquid Devil Ultimate. It is good when you apply it directly on Die like Delid CPU and GPU.
The results are amazing with 15°C drop in hot spot temperature from 92°C in stress test to around 77°C .
I bought also MX-5 but used it to isolate exposed componenets around the GPU Die before applying LM.  
It is nonconductive and really stick and I find it better than nail polish to isolate exposed componenets around 6900XT Die. 

On the 5900X, I am using Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut.

@Felix123BU tried Liquid Metal on 5800X CPU and there it only gave him very few degrees better but directly on Die it makes a big difference.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 13, 2021)

turbogear said:


> I bought also MX-5 but used it to isolate exposed components around the GPU Die before applying LM.
> It is non-conductive and really stick and I find it better than nail polish to isolate exposed components around 6900XT Die.


That's actually a really creative use for it! I'm guessing it worked perfectly too.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 13, 2021)

Hi,
Yep thermal paste is a lot easier to explain on rma issues lol

Bottom line looks like nt-h1 is still best out of the pastes I have used pretty much why I keep using it but contact and core temp spread tells the story on how good contact is as usual

Funny one I updated to 21h2 and r23 was no where in sight pinned to desktop downloaded to videos folder so I had to download r23 again lol

Other screen shots here








						[EOL] Arctic MX-5 is here!!Tests incoming! Completed.  Now its MX-6 testing time!
					

The system I'm going to be testing with does not have AVX(Dell T3500 with a Xeon W3680), but yes Prime95 will be used. I might even use Intel Burn Test.   I wasn't feeling well tonight, so I replaced my mx-4 paste with mx-5 finally, no other variables changed. I gained about 2 Celsius across the...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




TG hydronaut
Score is a little higher but so is max core temp by 2c from mx-5's 84c 
Spread is at 10c 76-86c so that too is a bit more than mx-5's 75-84c





9940x at 4.9 a bit different than 10900k results thought mx-5 would do better
Used hydronaut on this r23 sub last year looks better 








						Post your Cinebench R23 Score
					

Well i said i wasnt going to overclock this 3900x on this b450 motherboad but idle hands do the devils work so here a littles bit of a overclock. ive a full custom loop.  quite chuffed with this chip, i have a feeling it would go a bit more with a x570 . stay safe guys.




					www.techpowerup.com
				



Little snip 



Now with mx-5 at same 4.9 




4.8 to see which cores change at 4.9 with mx-5


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 13, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> 9940x at 4.9 a bit different than 10900k results thought mx-5 would do better
> Used hydronaut on this r23 sub last year looks better
> 
> Now with mx-5 at same 4.9
> ...


Nice. 2C difference. Almost margin of error. 

To be fair though TG Hydronaut is about 5x more expensive at 1.5grams for nearly $13.





						Amazon.com: Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut - Conductive, High Performance Thermal Paste - Extensive for air Cooling Systems, Water Cooling, for All heatsinks CPU and GPU (3,9 Gram / 1,5 ml): Electronics
					

Buy Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut - Conductive, High Performance Thermal Paste - Extensive for air Cooling Systems, Water Cooling, for All heatsinks CPU and GPU (3, 9 Gram / 1, 5 ml): Industrial & Scientific - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				



Compared to MX-5 at 8grams at $12





						Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-5 (8 g, Incl. Spatula) - Quality Thermal Paste for All CPU Coolers, Extremely high Thermal Conductivity, Low Thermal Resistance, Long Durability, Metal-Free, Non-Conductive, Non-capacitive : Electronics
					

Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-5 (8 g, Incl. Spatula) - Quality Thermal Paste for All CPU Coolers, Extremely high Thermal Conductivity, Low Thermal Resistance, Long Durability, Metal-Free, Non-Conductive, Non-capacitive : Electronics



					www.amazon.com
				




This comparison once again firmly puts MX-5 in the same class as the premium priced TIMs.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 14, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Nice. 2C difference. Almost margin of error.
> 
> To be fair though TG Hydronaut is about 5x more expensive at 1.5grams for nearly $13.
> 
> ...


Hi,
I sure didn't pay that much but likely 24.us for 5 grams so at least 50% more.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 14, 2021)

We can start comparing to the price of Gold which is about $60 a gram; $10 a gram seems rather high for a thermal paste.

GD900 is about 15 cents a gram


“An engineer can do for a dollar what any fool can do for two.”
- Arthur Mellen Wellington


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 3, 2021)

Sorry to bump this thread, but I just noticed the 54k in views, holy crap everyone. I am so sorry. lmao  if I had known there would be more than like 4 people and a few replies interested in this, I would have went out of my way (back when my mx-5 first arrived) to get temps posted.  Really apologies everyone.

in other news, I got some NT-H2 and updated my laptop cooling, which you can see over here if your interested:









						Arctic Passive Cooling Laptop Modification
					

so. I am getting awfully sick and tired of seeing my cpu and gtx 1070 reach 95 celsius in gaming (it needs re-pasted I think, but I can't do a re-paste cause the screws are stripped too bad, but even with re-paste it would still be doing 80ish)  I was thinking. these new fanless coolers from...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jul 3, 2021)

I will not use conductonaut or lm based paste due to reaction with aluminum, (corrosion)


----------



## Shrek (Jul 3, 2021)

Gallium Induced Failure of a Heat Sink - Bing video


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 14, 2021)

@Andy Shiekh any idea if white lithium grease would be of any use in cooling or in say fan longevity on the spinning parts? or lets say... coil whine? I honestly can't find much on it.

https://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Oil-10533-Lithium-Grease/dp/B06XY6QKS7/  (its not a paid or affiliate link)

I was told by my Dad that this is better than WD-40 for squeaky door hinges and stuff. When I actually read what it is though, it got me curious... LOL  but I don't want to risk it on my gear.

@lexluthermiester its considered extreme friction reducer, so would that mean your mount of the heatsink or water block has tighter seal? would be interesting to see if it creates a more even paste distrbution than a typical thermal paste. most thermal pastes only hit like 85-95% of the cpu heatsink/cpu direct contact. i wonder if this would achieve closer to 100% but then again it may have no active heat transfer capablity. i simply have no idea.

i don't think i'd risk it personally... i don't know enough science to do this Frankenstein project.

actually thinking about it now... the viscosity is probably too high since it is technically a grease... so it will leak everywhere, and lithium is good for heat transfer i think especially in paste form??? but again viscosity too high so it will leak and fry the mobo... unlike conductonaut which is prob less viscosity.

this is my thoughts anyway, i have no idea. if anyone has some ancient gear they don't mind that dies, would be neat to run some benches, a control study of traditional mx-4 or mx-5, then change to this grease and tilt the mobo around, see what happens.  LOL  @crazyeyesreaper this could be a fun experiment. i don't think anyone has ever tested this before. lithium technically speaking should work well, but I don't know what its rating is compared to conductonaut as far as heat transfer goes.


----------



## mtcn77 (Oct 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @Andy Shiekh any idea if white lithium grease would be of any use in cooling or in say fan longevity on the spinning parts? or lets say... coil whine? I honestly can't find much on it.





lynx29 said:


> I was told by my Dad that this is better than WD-40 for squeaky door hinges and stuff. When I actually read what it is though, it got me curious... LOL but I don't want to risk it on my gear.


I know it is not used as bike chain grease, it is not long lasting. Comparison with WD40 is also not helpful since both are not okay. Usable stuff need to have long polymer chains. For instance teflon is not good due to this reason, too. There are few thermal mediums that work, interestingly Intel has been attempting to install paraffin as a phase changing paste, it has a close enough buffering melting temperature.


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 14, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I know it is not used as bike chain grease, it is not long lasting. Comparison with WD40 is also not helpful since both are not okay. Usable stuff need to have long polymer chains. For instance teflon is not good due to this reason, too. There are few thermal mediums that work, interestingly Intel has been attempting to install paraffin as a phase changing paste, it has a close enough buffering melting temperature.



is it not long lasting because it is expose to air? as a paste with say a silicone sealant around the heatsink and cpu (again will never test this cause i don't want to ruin my gear LOL) it would not be exposed to air anymore.  would that make it last longer, or is my thought process incorrect?


----------



## mtcn77 (Oct 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> is it not long lasting because it is expose to air? as a paste with say a silicone sealant around the heatsink and cpu (again will never test this cause i don't want to ruin my gear LOL) it would not be exposed to air anymore.  would that make it last longer, or is my thought process incorrect?


I'm just applying my bike expertise. Waxes evaporate even less than greases, so if you are going to apply something to, say, a fan hub - better lubricate that bearing that doesn't attract dust. That definition fits waxes, imo.
PS: not the regular cheapo waxes that are like teflon. Like... some... heavy wax "paraffin" though dunno how, or whether feasible.
Don't touch what you cannot fix. Go for the heaviest, least evaporative grease. I used calcium grease on an Adda fan, but wouldn't consider it great advice to be honest.


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 14, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> I'm just applying my bike expertise. Waxes evaporate even less than greases, so if you are going to apply something to, say, a fan hub - better lubricate that bearing that doesn't attract dust. That definition fits waxes, imo.



yeah it rules out anything exposed to air. i will agree there, still leaves open the cpu/heatsink sealed question. I also have no idea if it eats other metals, like conduconaut does with aluminum... so yeah just too many unknowns to risk it.  conductonaut has already been shown to mainly only be useful in laptops anyway, so i guess this entire thought is pointless. bleh


----------



## mtcn77 (Oct 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> yeah it rules out anything exposed to air. i will agree there, still leaves open the cpu/heatsink sealed question. I also have no idea if it eats other metals, like conduconaut does with aluminum... so yeah just too many unknowns to risk it.  conductonaut has already been shown to mainly only be useful in laptops anyway, so i guess this entire thought is pointless. bleh


Your question hit a common note since good greases are also solid candidates as pastes since they don't evaporate. Though to use waxes as paste correctly, you need to have a sealant around the cpu like how they apply liquid metal from factory.
I didn't go into dry lubricants(like graphite dust) since they conversely accelerate friction and require frequent maintenance. Only crazy people use them.


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 14, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Your question hit a common note since good greases are also solid candidates as pastes since they don't evaporate. Though to use waxes as paste correctly, you need to have a sealant around the cpu like how they apply liquid metal from factory.
> I didn't go into dry lubricants(like graphite dust) since they accelerate friction and require frequent maintenance. Only crazy people use them.



yeah if something doesn't have longevity to it its pointless imo. maintenance free is the name of the game imo, which is one reason I admire MX-4 and MX-5.


----------



## Shrek (Oct 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @Andy Shiekh any idea if white lithium grease would be of any use in cooling or in say fan longevity on the spinning parts? or lets say... coil whine? I honestly can't find much on it.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Oil-10533-Lithium-Grease/dp/B06XY6QKS7/  (its not a paid or affiliate link)



Someone here can correct me; lithium grease is for lubrication so it would not be useful as a thermal grease, or for coil whine.

WD-40 is a terrible lubricant, so most anything would be better.

For fans one might use Mobile 1 fully synthetic grease, although I actually use fully synthetic engine oil myself.

Now I do used silicon oil on computer connectors, but it is not a great idea for switches.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Oct 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @Andy Shiekh any idea if white lithium grease would be of any use in cooling or in say fan longevity on the spinning parts? or lets say... coil whine? I honestly can't find much on it.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Oil-10533-Lithium-Grease/dp/B06XY6QKS7/  (its not a paid or affiliate link)
> 
> ...





Andy Shiekh said:


> Someone here can correct me; lithium grease is for lubrication so it would not be useful as a thermal grease, or for coil whine.
> 
> WD-40 is a terrible lubricant, so most anything would be better.
> 
> ...



Greases in general aren't fantastic for motor lubrication.  They're too thick in that application.  Oils more easily get where they need to go.  I don't usually consider most fans to be worth the trouble, so haven't dug into it thoroughly, but sewing machine oil has been suggested more than once.

Ain't gonna do crap for coil whine.


----------



## Boombastik (Oct 15, 2021)

In my laptop lenovo t420 that is very hot generally, with arctic mx-5 after 20 days i had 90C (and under the heatsink the paste was watery) i replaced it with deepcool g40 and the results after 20 days is 79C.
Its seems at least for me that mx-5 is better from mx-4, but for small bare dies is not good enough.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 15, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @Andy Shiekh any idea if white lithium grease would be of any use in cooling or in say fan longevity on the spinning parts? or lets say... coil whine? I honestly can't find much on it.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Oil-10533-Lithium-Grease/dp/B06XY6QKS7/  (its not a paid or affiliate link)
> 
> ...


That's an interesting proposition. I've never considered lithium grease as a TIM. The known chemistry suggests a solid maybe. I'm willing to give it a go. Gotta go get some in a tube first. All I have is a spray can and I don't want to waste it.



Andy Shiekh said:


> Someone here can correct me; lithium grease is for lubrication so it would not be useful as a thermal grease


That depends a lot of the formulation of the suspension material.


Andy Shiekh said:


> For fans one might use Mobile 1 fully synthetic grease, although I actually use fully synthetic engine oil myself.


For fans I combine dielectric grease with a 20W40 synthetic oil in a 50/50 mix. Been doing that for decades to repair/service fans. Always work a treat and I rarely ever have to service that fan again.


----------



## Sousinha (Oct 15, 2021)

I  read that MX-5 is a very good option regarding its price.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 15, 2021)

Sousinha said:


> I  read that MX-5 is a very good option regarding its price.


It really is. IMHO, it got the best performance to price ratio on the market.

Welcome to TPU!


----------



## AsRock (Oct 15, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Someone here can correct me; lithium grease is for lubrication so it would not be useful as a thermal grease, or for coil whine.
> 
> *WD-40 is a terrible lubricant*, so most anything would be better.
> 
> ...



Because it's not one, and WD-40 is great for getting shit done it's just people use it for the wrong thing(s).


----------



## Bomby569 (Oct 15, 2021)

WD40 is a degreaser, so the opposite of a lubricant.


----------



## ThrashZone (Oct 15, 2021)

Bomby569 said:


> WD40 is a degreaser, so the opposite of a lubricant.


Hi,
I'd add it's a cleaner, grease yes plus rust/ corrosion ..
It's dries out so it's a temporary smelly lubricant next should be machine oil/ silicon .... for final lubricant application.

I wasn't all that impressed with the alien baby crap/ mx-5 sadly


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 15, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> I wasn't all that impressed with the alien baby crap/ mx-5 sadly


Maybe you didn't use it/apply it correctly? I have found it to be exceptional.


----------



## n-ster (Oct 15, 2021)

WD40 does also makes a "dry lube" PTFE spray now, works great for cleaning and lubing inside key holes that is a common problem here because of weather and such


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 15, 2021)

This thread is about Arctic MX-5, not about WD-40 products. Let's get back on topic folks..


----------



## The red spirit (Oct 15, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> This thread is about Arctic MX-5, not about WD-40 products. Let's get back on topic folks..


It's ridiculous that there's a whole separate thread for just one thermal paste. I thought that absolutely no one cared about them as they all perform pretty much the same and you just buy the cheapest available one. It's truly as ridiculous as talking about which gas station petrol you buy. Silly thread, silly answers. It's only fair.


----------



## GerKNG (Oct 15, 2021)

still have MX5 since 30. April on my 6900XT
Temps are identical to day one.


----------



## Shrek (Oct 15, 2021)

I'm interested in experiences with GD900 compared to MX-5


----------



## Ibizadr (Oct 15, 2021)

For price it's good but nothing can beat thermal grizzly kryonaut


----------



## ThrashZone (Oct 15, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> This thread is about Arctic MX-5, not about WD-40 products. Let's get back on topic folks..


Hi,
Yeah where did wd-40 come from lol 

But maybe add this to the op for peoples wondering interests of other thermal pastes








						The Official Thermal Interface Material thread
					

No need for another single thread, let's use this for questions and suggestions. :)




					www.techpowerup.com
				




I just didn't think mx-5 wasn't all that special from nt-h1 which I've never had an issue with and never saw any pump out effects and 9940x/ 10900k were pushed lol


----------



## Shrek (Oct 15, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> nt-h1 which I've never had an issue with and never saw any pump out effects



Seems to me the only way to avoid pump-out is to have the paste solidify.


----------



## maxfly (Oct 15, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Seems to me the only way to avoid pump-out is to have the paste solidify.


Or have the absolute  perfect tim spread. Which is well nigh impossible ime.


----------



## Shrek (Oct 15, 2021)

Even then, the top surface expands and so pulls TIM out.


----------



## yotano211 (Oct 15, 2021)

I have mx4, I don't like it. Sucks that I bought the largest tube.


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 16, 2021)

yotano211 said:


> I have mx4, I don't like it. Sucks that I bought the largest tube.



I like MX-4. It's possible you got one of the bad batches though, I don't know.


----------



## Borc (Oct 16, 2021)

yotano211 said:


> I have mx4, I don't like it. Sucks that I bought the largest tube.



Is this for your notebook? Then I'm not surprised.


----------



## Falkentyne (Oct 16, 2021)

Ibizadr said:


> For price it's good but nothing can beat thermal grizzly kryonaut


Multiple people on overclock.net recently have complained about *both* Kryonaut and Kryonaut Extreme slowly drying out on their waterblock'd RTX 3090's.
Two users (Jura11 and I think cstkl1) both switched to Thermalright TFX and said it's alot more consistent long term and durable.

A third user tried to explain exactly why the "silicone" greases, which are made with a form of rubber, have this problem, and the Nano particle grease (made with carbon) are much better--but are significantly harder to actually work with (spread).
The problem with the carbon nano greases (TFX, SYY-157, FuzeIce, T9+ Platinum, Coolermaster Cryofuze, which seems to be very suspiciously like Thermalright TFX/Thermagic ZF-EX) is they are all atrocious under subzero.

Someone tell me this isn't the same as TFX...my ZF-EX behaves identically to this in spreading/stickiness/thickness...


----------



## freeagent (Oct 16, 2021)

Its a little thick, definitely looks familiar..    I went through 8g of SYY-157 perfecting my spread lol. When I ran out I bought another 10g


----------



## Shrek (Oct 16, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Multiple people on overclock.net recently have complained about *both* Kryonaut and Kryonaut Extreme slowly drying out



Still not convinced that drying out is a bad thing.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 16, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Still not convinced that drying out is a bad thing.


Its not..

In the instructions for my TIM it says apply a thin even coat across the IHS and let it sit for 15 minutes before you mount the cooler.

Works good


----------



## Shrek (Oct 16, 2021)

And the stuff one gets pre-applied to some CPU heatsinks is already dry.


----------



## Falkentyne (Oct 16, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Still not convinced that drying out is a bad thing.



It is if the temps go up 8C in 4 months....
It isn't just drying out
the temps are getting worse.  and people are removing the heatsinks and seeing the paste like it's plaster or something (i dont know the material, dried clay?).
It's on the OCN forums a few pages back on the 3090 thread.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 16, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah where did wd-40 come from lol
> 
> But maybe add this to the op for peoples wondering interests of other thermal pastes
> ...





Andy Shiekh said:


> Seems to me the only way to avoid pump-out is to have the paste solidify.


I have seen no evidence of "pump-out effect" from MX-5.


----------



## yotano211 (Oct 16, 2021)

Borc said:


> Is this for your notebook? Then I'm not surprised.


Yea it was for a notebook that I had and any in the future. I use it on the gpu, the cpu is liquid metal.


----------



## Borc (Oct 16, 2021)

Ok as expected. MX-4 and MX-5 are bad for a notebook, a thicker paste is better suited for a notebook.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 16, 2021)

Borc said:


> MX-4 and MX-5 are bad for a notebook


Nonsense. I've got MX-5 on all three of my laptops and they perform as expected.


----------



## maxfly (Oct 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Nonsense. I've got MX-5 on all three of my laptops and they perform as expected.


Agreed, I put mx-4 on my laptops cpu the day it was delivered. That was 3 years ago. Temps haven't changed a single degree. I wouldn't hesitate to use mx-5 on my own or client laptops in the future knowing its predecessors reliability. 

 In regards to pump out, my reference was to the small amount of paste that inevitably gets pushed to the edges of the ihs/die after the initial mount. Ive never had any paste continue to pump itself off of the ihs/die over time(Im not saying it isn't possible under the right circumstances, nor am i disputing anyone elses claims). Which in my experience is inevitable unless you can miraculously apply the perfect amount of tim. Even on rigs that have been in service for several years, that saw higher than what i would consider normal temperatures.


----------



## ThrashZone (Oct 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I have seen no evidence of "pump-out effect" from MX-5.


Hi,
I was talking about nt-h1 that I've never noticed any pump out
MX-5 seems as wet as nt-h2
nt-h2 seemed it dried pretty quick and tough to get nt-h2 residue off mx-5 came off easy.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 16, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I was talking about nt-h1 that I've never noticed any pump out
> MX-5 seems as wet as nt-h2
> nt-h2 seemed it dried pretty quick and tough to get nt-h2 residue off mx-5 came off easy.


Ah fair enough, misunderstood you.


----------



## ThrashZone (Oct 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ah fair enough, misunderstood you.


Hi,
You find in weird how easy mx-4 and now 5 come off ?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 16, 2021)

Not really. MX-5 does not come off easily. It takes some effort to clean it. MX-4 was easier, but still took some effort.


----------



## Borc (Oct 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Nonsense. I've got MX-5 on all three of my laptops and they perform as expected.




I have very poor results on my notebook with both MX-5 and MX-4 and you should have noticed others are not happy with it.



Boombastik said:


> In my laptop lenovo t420 that is very hot generally, with arctic mx-5 after 20 days i had 90C (and under the heatsink the paste was watery) i replaced it with deepcool g40 and the results after 20 days is 79C.
> Its seems at least for me that mx-5 is better from mx-4, but for small bare dies is not good enough.





yotano211 said:


> I have mx4, I don't like it. Sucks that I bought the largest tube.





yotano211 said:


> Yea it was for a notebook that I had and any in the future. I use it on the gpu, the cpu is liquid metal.




It's widely known that a watery paste like MX-5 or MX-4 is a bad choice for a notebook. You might be lucky to have a superb heatsink (for a laptop standard) or you didn't try a higher end thick paste and you can't know, however using MX-5 will always be a risk with a notebook, therefore this paste is not recommended for notebooks. It's not even specific to MX-4 or MX-5, it's more or less the same with other watery pastes as well. There is no risk with a thick paste, it will work much much better if the heatsink isn't perfect.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 16, 2021)

Borc said:


> I have very poor results on my notebook with both MX-5 and MX-4 and you should have noticed others are not happy with it.


And that could be due to with a number of factors that have nothing to do with the MX-5 TIM itself. I run a PC shop and we use MX-5 exclusively at this time. We have installed it on over 1500 systems at this point and have had zero problems with it. No pump-out or bleed-out, no examples of poor performance, no problems whatsoever.


Borc said:


> It's widely known that a watery paste like MX-5 or MX-4 is a bad choice for a notebook.


Except that neither of those TIM's are "watery". MX-5 especially is very sticky and viscus.


Borc said:


> You might be lucky to have a superb heatsink (for a laptop standard) or you didn't try a higher end thick paste and you can't know, however using MX-5 will always be a risk with a notebook, therefore this paste is not recommended for notebooks.


I think it's entirely more likely that the few people that have had problems are experiencing issues not related to the TIM itself.


----------



## Borc (Oct 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> And that could be due to with a number of factors that have nothing to do with the MX-5 TIM itself.




It is 100% thermal paste related. 




lexluthermiester said:


> I run a PC shop and we use MX-5 exclusively at this time. We have installed it on over 1500 systems at this point and have had zero problems with it. No pump-out or bleed-out, no examples of poor performance, no problems whatsoever.
> 
> Except that neither of those TIM's are "watery". MX-5 especially is very sticky and viscus.
> 
> I think it's entirely more likely that the few people that have had problems are experiencing issues not related to the TIM itself.




You repeatedly telling me there is no problem for you, how do you know this? Did you try other higher end thicker pastes and what paste exactly? Of course I cannot rule out there are a number of notebooks where a thinner paste like MX-5 works as good as a thicker one, some will do just fine, but no chance it's the same for 1500 devices (all of them laptops or what devices exactly?). For sure you did use a subpar paste for many of these 1500 devices assuming many of them are laptops, many many of these would work much better with a thicker paste, you can be sure about it. It seems like you don't have a proper comparison and can't know and because you are obviously a big MX-5 and supporter and user you cannot accept any criticism towards MX-5. You cannot even accept that MX-5 is a watery paste. It's not the most watery in the world but it's definitely not thick enough to handle uneven low pressure heatsinks. Compared to all the better laptop stuff it is watery. Did you even try a thick paste for once?


----------



## Shrek (Oct 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Except that neither of those TIM's are "watery". MX-5 especially is very sticky and viscus.



That would explain it
"Thermal greases with higher viscosities are typically more resistant to pump out effects on lidless processors."


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 16, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> That would explain it
> "Thermal greases with higher viscosities are typically more resistant to pump out effects on lidless processors."


If you're talking about section 2.1.4 on page 10, then yes, very likely. Of course this was an advisory document from 2004 based on studies AMD did in 2002/2003. While the conclusions and information in that document are still valid, modern TIMs that are well formulated and engineered simply do not exhibit the same effects of TIMs from that time.


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 16, 2021)

As I read the back and forth here, I like to imagine an actual Arctic employee coming across this thread someday and just thinking to themselves... holy crap


----------



## ThrashZone (Oct 16, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> As I read the back and forth here, I like to imagine an actual Arctic employee coming across this thread someday and just thinking to themselves... holy crap


Hi,
Holy Alien baby crap !


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 16, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Holy Alien baby crap !



took me 5 seconds or so and reading that twice to realize what you meant lol


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 16, 2021)

In the end mx2, mx4, mx5 are good OEM compounds. I've yet to try Gelid, Cooler Master, Kryonaut.

I swore by AS5 due to using it on bga ram on a M18 GPU.


----------



## Shrek (Oct 16, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> We have installed it on over 1500 systems at this point and have had zero problems with it.



That is a _lot_ of computers.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 16, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> That is a _lot_ of computers.


That number includes new builds, upgrades and repair jobs that come in. We've had a busy summer and back to school season.


----------



## Athlonite (Oct 16, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> In the end mx2, mx4, mx5 are good OEM compounds. I've yet to try Gelid, Cooler Master, Kryonaut.
> 
> I swore by AS5 due to using it on bga ram on a M18 GPU.


I used to swear by AS5 aswell but now use Cooler Master Master Gel Pro only because I couldn't find any Maker here in Gougelandastan but seems to work pretty well and it's not honkingly expensive like some TP's are here and is easily spread hasn't dried out yet after 6 months and is super easy to clean off with meths or alcohol or shellite (lighter fuel)


----------



## Mussels (Oct 17, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That number includes new builds, upgrades and repair jobs that come in. We've had a busy summer and back to school season.


The only thing you didnt state, was what type of systems

desktops, laptops, AIO's etc


----------



## yotano211 (Oct 17, 2021)

Borc said:


> I have very poor results on my notebook with both MX-5 and MX-4 and you should have noticed others are not happy with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It works good enough for the laptop I currently use. I mostly use the processor more often. I've had bad luck using mx4 on the cpu. I've had great results with gelid extreme on the cpu on laptops.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 17, 2021)

Mussels said:


> The only thing you didnt state, was what type of systems
> 
> desktops, laptops, AIO's etc


LOL! Yes. Hell we work on game systems too.


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 17, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> LOL! Yes. Hell we work on game systems too.



You should def advertise console cleaning. I feel like there is a big market for that. Lot of people, including myself, simply don't have the confidence to take apart a console to do a proper cleaning and re-paste. I can do a laptop or PC all day long, but that proprietary bs on lot of the consoles really is risky, but everything gets dusty and needs cleaned sometimes.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 17, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> You should def advertise console cleaning. I feel like there is a big market for that.


Oh yeah, we do. Two different tiers of it. One is a simple blow out with compressed air(from and actual air-tank) with a toothbrush clean and wipe-down. The other is a more through clean involving disassembly and q-tip detailing. This is where we repaste the TIM. We will not be doing that on PS5s however once they start coming in.


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 17, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Oh yeah, we do. Two different tiers of it. One is a simple blow out with compressed air(from and actual air-tank) with a toothbrush clean and wipe-down. The other is a more through clean involving disassembly and q-tip detailing. This is where we repaste the TIM. We will not be doing that on PS5s however once they start coming in.



Why not on PS5's?

edit nm i just remembered liquid metal lasts forever.  LOL


----------



## Mussels (Oct 17, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Why not on PS5's?
> 
> edit nm i just remembered liquid metal lasts forever.  LOL


also higher risk of leaks, etc.

I suppose a partial tear down is an option for cleaning fans without a repaste


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 17, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Why not on PS5's?
> 
> edit nm i just remembered liquid metal lasts forever.  LOL


Yes, the LM TIM. There will never be a need to service it.


Mussels said:


> also higher risk of leaks, etc.
> 
> I suppose a partial tear down is an option for cleaning fans without a repaste


Right. The PS5 is surprisingly easy to take apart, so cleanings will be easy as well.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 2, 2021)

Ok, just watched this and thought it would be very informative for those who are interested in the science of TIMs;








Everything about the methodology used in this video is something that can taken very seriously.

He followed up with this one;








I want to try this stuff!

LTT did a video on this stuff.









If any of you want to give it a try;








						High Performance Thermal Paste - 1ml or 3ml | tech-ingredients
					

High Performance Thermal Paste - this is a thermal paste/grease, not an adhesive.   See it in action on our YouTube channel - https://youtu.be/Glfak2B9J5U




					www.techingredients.com


----------



## Athlonite (Nov 2, 2021)

yeah not paying $28 bucks for 3ml but I watched that LTT vid it did do well


----------



## seth1911 (Nov 2, 2021)

i use now since a decade the Liquid Metal Pads, the price is a great thing by me about 3$ each CPU (if i dont change the cpu and cooler daily)


----------



## Shrek (Nov 2, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, just watched this and thought it would be very informative for those who are interested in the science of TIMs;
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very useful to know that Indium needs such high pressures.

That honey performs so well emphasizes (to me) that it is really all about longevity and not a degree here or there;
I tend to agree to some extent with the comment in the third video about thermal conductivity "it doesn't matter"
but I remain skeptical about the 'optically flat' approach as things will warp with heat.

That said, people seem to test everything and anything except longevity, and I remain intrigued by the possibility
that a paste that dries might be superior by countering pump-out.

I'm not willing to pay some of the prices that go with some pastes; I got a lifetime stock of GD900 and moved on.


I see a similar fascination with computer mouse switches (the actuation pressure, the noise); I just get a long life
replacement and call it a day.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 2, 2021)

seth1911 said:


> i use now since a decade the Liquid Metal Pads


What are "Liquid Metal Pads"? Please do explain.


----------



## Shrek (Nov 2, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> What are "Liquid Metal Pads"? Please do explain.



New to me
Amazon.com: Coollaboratory Liquid MetalPad 3xCPU + Cleaning kit (4260157580060) : Electronics

Instructions: How to use "Coollaboratory Liquid Pro"
Content materials: INDIUM, COPPER, BISMUTH
melting point 59°C


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 2, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I'm not willing to pay some of the prices that go with some pastes; I got a lifetime stock of GD900 and moved on.


And you likely bought something very similar to what was made in the video, which means you really are good to go.


Andy Shiekh said:


> New to me
> Amazon.com: Coollaboratory Liquid MetalPad 3xCPU + Cleaning kit (4260157580060) : Electronics
> 
> Instructions: How to use "Coollaboratory Liquid Pro"
> ...


This looks interesting, but where are the reviews? Those "Awards" at the bottom of that page are meaningless without third-party analysis to back up the claims. I'm not willing to accept the performance claims until it's been tested.

Granted, the prices aren't bad..





						Coollaboratory Cooling Products available at MemoryC.com
					

Coollaboratory Cooling Products suitable for HighEnd PCs and game consoles available at MemoryC.com




					www.memoryc.com
				








						Search results for: 'coollaboratory'
					

Your best source on the Net for cutting edge computer modification hardware! Performance-PCs.com Store Performance PC's, Inc. PPCS




					www.performance-pcs.com


----------



## Shrek (Nov 3, 2021)

I am concerned about any runoff, it being conductive and all.



lexluthermiester said:


> And you likely bought something very similar to what was made in the video, which means you really are good to go.



$14 for 120g


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 3, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I am concerned about any runoff, it being conductive and all.


With that combination of metals, run-off is unlikely. What makes me dubious is the bismuth. It's a terrible conductor of heat and even with indium and copper in the mix, the properties of bismuth remain. Still, if they have made it work, I would like to see proof.


----------



## Shrek (Nov 3, 2021)

How so? it melts at 59°C

I seem to recall that alloys can have worse thermal conductivity than any of the constituent metals.
Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - YouTube
15:00


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 3, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> How so? it melts at 59°C


Surface tension. Those particular metals have very low surface tension at these temps. Very unlikely to run and drip.



Andy Shiekh said:


> I seem to recall that alloys can have worse thermal conductivity than any of the constituent metals.
> Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - YouTube
> 15:00


While these are true statements, there are certain combinations that can yield better results than others. If this company has found a combination ratio that works well, then it'll be something. That's why I want to see testing..


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Nov 3, 2021)

Okay so
this thread has been going for 28 pages
Is there actually any test of MX-5 in these pages yet?
If so plez link meh


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 3, 2021)

Hachi_Roku256563 said:


> Okay so
> this thread has been going for 28 pages
> Is there actually any test of MX-5 in these pages yet?
> If so plez link meh


There are, including some comparative testing done by me but I don't remember which pages they're on. Back in June or July of this year I think? You're going to have to look for yourself..


----------



## Falkentyne (Nov 3, 2021)

Hachi_Roku256563 said:


> Okay so
> this thread has been going for 28 pages
> Is there actually any test of MX-5 in these pages yet?
> If so plez link meh



MX-5 was about 3C worse than SYY-157 thermal paste for me on a laptop GTX 1070 (TDP modded) and AMD radeon r9 290X.
But 50 grams of MX-5 is about $40 something.
8 grams of SYY-157 is about $15 I think.

Thermalright TFX was about 1C-2C Better than SYY-157.
But 6.2 grams of TFX is 40 so bend over and show your butt and your belly so it can be punched.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 3, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> But 50 grams of MX-5 is about $40 something.
> 8 grams of SYY-157 is about $15 I think.


That is both inaccurate and an unfair comparison. 

8g of MX-5 is $12 shipped from Amazon. 


			https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-MX-5-Conductivity-Non-Conductive-Non-capacitive/dp/B08T6D1S73
		

20g is $21 shipped.


			https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-MX-5-Conductivity-Non-Conductive-Non-capacitive/dp/B08T5ZWP55
		


For proper comparison;
SYY-157 is $7.60 shipped for 2g


			https://www.amazon.com/SYY-Compound-Processor-Performance-Interface/dp/B07BNDPKL5
		

MX-5 is $6 shipped for 2g


			https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-MX-5-Incl-Spatula-Non-Conductive/dp/B08T5Q4J7H
		


If you're going to make price comparisons, take care it's apples to apples. Otherwise it just looks like transparent fanboying.


----------



## Shrek (Nov 3, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Surface tension. Those particular metals have very low surface tension at these temps. Very unlikely to run and drip.



It is basically low melting point solder and I wonder if any flux is included.



lexluthermiester said:


> If this company has found a combination ratio that works well, then it'll be something. That's why I want to see testing..



I am not sure thermal conductivity is such a big deal once one gets to say 5 W/ K m


----------



## Thimblewad (Nov 3, 2021)

Never saw this thread, saw it on recent, read the first page and I must also add, that after a decade od MX2 and then MX4, I have never ever had a problem.

When I got my Vega, I changed the paste on the first day. 10°C difference and 150 MHz higher sustained clocks at same RPM.

I also used it to fix and old laptop for my mom. Old burned out OEM paste 70°C idle, new MX4 paste 30°C idle.

I guess I repaste my shit once a year.

The fact it's not electrically conductive and so easy to put on/off and offers superb cooling performance makes it the go-to paste for me.

Haven't tried the MX5 yet because the MX4 supply is still here :')


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2021)

AS5 still works good but good luck getting people to believe that 

I would probably choose that over MX


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 3, 2021)

freeagent said:


> AS5 still works good but good luck getting people to believe that


I believe, but then again, I'm a scientist...


freeagent said:


> I would probably choose that over MX


That's a bit tougher to believe. AS5 is still good, but it is out-shined by the latest and greatest which are mostly on the same cost level.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I believe, but then again, I'm a scientist...
> 
> That's a bit tougher to believe. AS5 is still good, but it is out-shined by the latest and great which are mostly on the same cost level.


Tomorrow is my Friday I will do a small comparison between SYY and AS5.

I don’t think AS5 will do that well, but I am curious because I have not tried in on my current CPU.

I tried MX so long ago I don’t remember how well it did, but I didn’t buy it again.


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Nov 3, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Tomorrow is my Friday I will do a small comparison between SYY and AS5.
> 
> I don’t think AS5 will do that well, but I am curious because I have not tried in on my current CPU.
> 
> I tried MX so long ago I don’t remember how well it did, but I didn’t buy it again.



Get some GD900 bro


----------



## Shrek (Nov 3, 2021)

Thimblewad said:


> I guess I repaste my shit once a year.



That is exactly what I am trying to avoid; I want to repaste once, and once only.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I want to repaste once, and once only.


That’s no fun, what happens if you get bored, or you see your temps are half a c more than they should be 

I kid. I have no life.


----------



## Shrek (Nov 3, 2021)

You have a valid point, I conceded to your wisdom.

Says the person who rebuilt a 40 year old smoke alarm, because I was too lazy to get a new one; or rebuilds computer mice even if I have a box full of replacements.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2021)

Wisdom?

Oh no.. I know nothing.


----------



## Shrek (Nov 3, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Wisdom?
> 
> Oh no.. I know nothing.



“I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.” Plato

Don't confuse wisdom and knowledge.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> “I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.” Plato
> 
> Don't confuse wisdom and knowledge.


That’s a good quote, thanks


----------



## maxfly (Nov 3, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Wisdom?
> 
> Oh no.. I know nothing.


Insert voice from the german guard in Hogans Heroes. Haha


----------



## bobbybluz (Nov 3, 2021)

8 grams of SYY is currently $9.88 on Amazon. I have some I bought a few months ago but haven't even opened the package yet. I used AS5 (because I have a large tube of it) for bench testing an Asus Rampage VIII Hero/7700K with a Corsair H100i last Saturday night. I had the CPU @4.7GHz and the combo of AS5 and the H100i wasn't very impressive compared to Gelid GC Extreme and an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 240 (both AIO's used the stock fans). I have another LF II 240 on the way and they come with a small tube of MX-5 now so I can finally give that a test run.
Amazon.com: Thermal Paste, SYY 8 Grams CPU Paste Thermal Compound Paste Heatsink for IC/Processor/CPU/All Coolers, 15.7W/m.k Carbon Based High Performance, Thermal Interface Material, CPU Thermal Paste : Electronics


----------



## Shrek (Nov 3, 2021)

That page claims

"BETTER THAN LIQUID METAL"


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2021)

In that it won’t kill your components 

It’s fairly thick, it’s not going anywhere.


----------



## Falkentyne (Nov 3, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That is both inaccurate and an unfair comparison.
> 
> 8g of MX-5 is $12 shipped from Amazon.
> 
> ...


SYY has changed price constantly.  It's never a fixed price.
It was on sale cheaper than $10 for 8 grams before.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2021)

Yeah I bought 20g for a lower price than 10g.. maybe a flash sale but I wasn’t going to pass it up lol..


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 3, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Tomorrow is my Friday I will do a small comparison between SYY and AS5.


That would be a fun comparison to see! Do pics & screenshots like I did, see below..


Hachi_Roku256563 said:


> Okay so
> this thread has been going for 28 pages
> Is there actually any test of MX-5 in these pages yet?
> If so plez link meh


Hey I don't know if you found it, but the link was on my profile page;








						[EOL] Arctic MX-5 is here!!Tests incoming! Completed.  Now its MX-6 testing time!
					

Oh I'll pass on that.  That's specifically for TFX.   (I got the best results on my 3090 FE (most stable core temp deltas) applying it like that. SYY-157 still needs full coverage but is easier to get on.  Anyone here use SYY-157 yet?




					www.techpowerup.com
				






Falkentyne said:


> SYY has changed price constantly.  It's never a fixed price.
> It was on sale cheaper than $10 for 8 grams before.


Weird. I wonder why that happens..


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That would be a fun comparison to see! Do pics & screenshots like I did, see below..
> 
> Hey I don't know if you found it, but the link was on my profile page;
> 
> ...


Will do :salute:




lexluthermiester said:


> Weird. I wonder why that happens.


They gave me a 10 buck amazon card on my first purchase from them, I didn’t use it though.. it was a tad sneaky because on the back it said if I was a reviewer to not disclose that it came with a card. Of course it made the news and no card this time lol. But.. if you have some loose change kicking around you should check it out. It’s not the bestest out there, but for the price I don’t think it can be beat. It’s my new AS5 lol.. I used it for like a decade.. I know this thread is about MX, sorry about that


----------



## Athlonite (Nov 3, 2021)

@freeagent  I'd still be using AS5 today if it wasn't so damn expensive here now my first tube cost $9.95 for 3.5g now it's $20 bloody gougelandastanie plunkettes I can get CM Master Gel Pro for less money and more goop


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2021)

Lol I know it’s like 15 beaver bux here.. cost more than my new stuff did lol. I ditched AS5 when I tried Thermalright TF8. Thermalright TFX is the best TIM I have used though. That stuff is pricey..


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 3, 2021)

freeagent said:


> I know this thread is about MX, sorry about that


I think @lynx29 would be ok with it. Go to town.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I think @lynx29 would be ok with it. Go to town.


Whoops.. well whatever.. I tried


----------



## Falkentyne (Nov 4, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Will do :salute:
> 
> 
> 
> They gave me a 10 buck amazon card on my first purchase from them, I didn’t use it though.. it was a tad sneaky because on the back it said if I was a reviewer to not disclose that it came with a card. Of course it made the news and no card this time lol. But.. if you have some loose change kicking around you should check it out. It’s not the bestest out there, but for the price I don’t think it can be beat. It’s my new AS5 lol.. I used it for like a decade.. I know this thread is about MX, sorry about that



Yes I got that too.
I left a review, left the screenshot and they gave me a $10 card so I used it to order some more paste.
They told me if I left a second review they'd give me a second $10 card but I didn't bother.


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 5, 2021)

So what's the verdict on MX-5? Worth the purchase?
Currently using Kryonaut and ran out already (applied on my 3770K, 3300X and 5800X), but this thing gets all dry and all after few months of use (I hear its more effective on temps below 80C, but i occasionally hit that on certain scenarios such as RPCS3, and maybe handbrake/C R23 on a really hot day)


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Nov 5, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> So what's the verdict on MX-5? Worth the purchase?
> Currently using Kryonaut and ran out already (applied on my 3770K, 3300X and 5800X), but this thing gets all dry and all after few months of use (I hear its more effective on temps below 80C, but i occasionally hit that on certain scenarios such as RPCS3, and maybe handbrake/C R23 on a really hot day)



Doesn't seem like there is much of a verdict.  TIM's not all that expensive; grab a tube and try it for yourself.  29 pages in and the conversation is still basically, "MX-5 sux!"  "No it doesn't!"


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 5, 2021)

80-watt Hamster said:


> Doesn't seem like there is much of a verdict.  TIM's not all that expensive; grab a tube and try it for yourself.  29 pages in and the conversation is still basically, "MX-5 sux!"  "No it doesn't!"


Tried to read some and yeah, mixed bag. Also considering MX-4, NT-H2 and Gelid GC Extreme, whichever is cheaper i guess


----------



## maxfly (Nov 6, 2021)

There's nothing wrong with it. I've been using it on my secondary rig( i7 8086k) for 4 or 5 months. As well as client builds, on a variety of cpus and gpus. With no issues. Temps are about the same as when i was using prolimatech pk3 with the same noctua u12s on the 8086k. Its cheap and does a solid job. I have zero qualms recommending it.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 6, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> So what's the verdict on MX-5? Worth the purchase?


Hell yes. All day, every day!


80-watt Hamster said:


> 29 pages in and the conversation is still basically, "MX-5 sux!" "No it doesn't!"


Except I provided proof that MX-5 is great.


ViperXTR said:


> Tried to read some and yeah, mixed bag.


Let the result speak for themselves.








						[EOL] Arctic MX-5 is here!!Tests incoming! Completed.  Now its MX-6 testing time!
					

Oh I'll pass on that.  That's specifically for TFX.   (I got the best results on my 3090 FE (most stable core temp deltas) applying it like that. SYY-157 still needs full coverage but is easier to get on.  Anyone here use SYY-157 yet?




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Nov 6, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Hell yes. All day, every day!
> 
> Except I provided proof that MX-5 is great.
> 
> ...



Ok, I'll admit that my take was overly cynical.  All the arguing about AL must have me a bit edgy.


----------



## AlwaysHope (Nov 6, 2021)

Interesting results with MX-5, meh... personally I'll stick with thermal grizzly range of TIMs.


----------



## ir_cow (Nov 6, 2021)

I started to use MX-5 recently. I as well ran out of Thermal Grizzly. Its comparable to thermal grizzly kryonaut in temps. Not that I did any serious testing but it would be hard to say its "worse". Its a bit more gummy and is hard to remove, but not by much. Also 20g of Thermal Grizzly is half the amount of MX-5 if not more. I didn't realize how much Thermal Grizzly was ripping me off.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 6, 2021)

80-watt Hamster said:


> Ok, I'll admit that my take was overly cynical.  All the arguing about AL must have me a bit edgy.


No worries. And I feel you! This latest Intel CPU release has brought out the fanboying something fierce... What I don't get is the lack of objectivity. Why is it that people forget the idea's of merit and scientific thinking where it comes to product releases? That can easily apply to this thread too. Are people really that emotionally invested in brand loyalty that they forget how to think without bias?



ir_cow said:


> Its a bit more gummy and is hard to remove, but not by much.


This is true. MX-5 is very gooey and sticky, which makes cleaning it off surfaces more of a task, but IMHO, the results are worth it, especially for the price.


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 6, 2021)

Ill look at it then, but the high viscosity might be annoying


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 6, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Ill look at it then, but the high viscosity might be annoying


It's not that annoying. Clean up is just more involved. Not a real problem unless you're going to be swapping CPU's frequently..


----------



## Shrek (Nov 6, 2021)

I suspect that viscosity may be critical to longevity and so not something to be avoided.



lexluthermiester said:


> Are people really that emotionally invested in brand loyalty that they forget how to think without bias?



This may be sewn into our genetics and part of our tribal mentality; a reflection of group loyalty.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 6, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Tried to read some and yeah, mixed bag. Also considering MX-4, NT-H2 and Gelid GC Extreme, whichever is cheaper i guess



Some of this thread is for bare die applications (GPU, mobile CPU), so performance is going to look quite different for a lot of these pastes. MX-5 should be better than MX-4 there, but then again, I've never had a problem repasting my GPUs with MX-4.

On CPU however, I'd rule out MX-4 completely for modern or high end CPUs. The temp difference is kinda obvious, MX-4 sucks - tested it mainly against NT-H1 and NT-H2 on 4790K, 3700X, 5700G, 5900X. NT-H1 and NT-H2 seem to perform the same (maybe slight edge to NT-H2), I've tried SYY157 a few times and it's lost to the Noctuas by about 0.5-1C every time (also much harder to spread), it was hella cheap though. Havent tried MX-5 yet, have a big tube of NT-H1 and SYY157


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 6, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Some of this thread is for bare die applications (GPU, mobile CPU), so performance is going to look quite different for a lot of these pastes. MX-5 should be better than MX-4 there, but then again, I've never had a problem repasting my GPUs with MX-4.
> 
> On CPU however, I'd rule out MX-4 completely for modern or high end CPUs. The temp difference is kinda obvious, MX-4 sucks - tested it mainly against NT-H1 and NT-H2 on 4790K, 3700X, 5700G, 5900X. NT-H1 and NT-H2 seem to perform the same (maybe slight edge to NT-H2), I've tried SYY157 a few times and it's lost to the Noctuas by about 0.5-1C every time (also much harder to spread), it was hella cheap though. Havent tried MX-5 yet, have a big tube of NT-H1 and SYY157



any particular reason you dislike mx-4 so much? I found that it cooled 1-2 Celsius better than mx-5, mx-5 probably lasts longer though, i think both are rated for 8 years, but for some reason my mx-5 tube when i look at mx-5, i don't know, i just feel like it will last 20 years for some reason, but its no real reason for me to think that


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## Shrek (Nov 6, 2021)

A conjecture (and only that): perhaps the high MX-5 viscosity means the layer is thicker and that explains the higher temperatures.

For me 8 years goes by so very fast and your feeling that MX-5 will last longer may be well founded.


----------



## Falkentyne (Nov 6, 2021)

MX-5 works fine but if you want the best temps on ADL, or on a hot power guggling RTX 3090, you definitely want to consider Thermalright TFX for its higher viscosity and overall better temps (since Ampere has the 'temp throttle' thing where you lose 15 mhz at certain temp steps (the card manually adjusts its V/F curve down).

On both 10900k and RTX 1070 (laptop, modded), MX-5 was about 3-4C worse than Thermalright TFX.  But TFX is freaking expensive.  Only thing worse in price is Kryonaut Extreme and Coolermaster Cryofuze, both are which are complete highway robbery and bend over and get violated (and even worse, Cryofuze was tested on a laptop to perform WORSE than TFX).


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 7, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> MX-5 works fine but if you want the best temps on ADL, or on a hot power guggling RTX 3090, you definitely want to consider Thermalright TFX for its higher viscosity


This tells me you've never used MX-5 as I have used both of those and the MX-5 is about the same viscosity if not a bit more.


Falkentyne said:


> On both 10900k and RTX 1070 (laptop, modded), MX-5 was about 3-4C worse than Thermalright TFX.


I'm not saying it doesn't perform well, because it does. However, I'm not willing to accept 3-4c difference without testing to show such because that is not what I experienced when I tested it.


Falkentyne said:


> But TFX is freaking expensive.


No doubt. $20 for 2grams? Yeah stupid expensive. And when I tested it last, it performed well, but not $20 for 2g well.


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 8, 2021)

Noctua is more expensive here now so got the MX-5, will test it once it arrives.


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 9, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> View attachment 224293
> Noctua is more expensive here now so got the MX-5, will test it once it arrives.



Item has arrived, tested it, and its around 3-4C worse than Kryonaut so far, maybe thats to be expected? Also, does this have burn in/curing time?


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 9, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Item has arrived, tested it, and its around 3-4C worse than Kryonaut so far, maybe thats to be expected? Also, does this have burn in/curing time?



Big gap but doesn't seem surprising - iirc Tom's tested Kryonaut on par with NT-H1, I think I had a 2-3C gap between NT-H1 and MX-4 (the latter being worse). Seems from earlier in the thread that MX-5 doesn't improve significantly on MX-4 for IHS CPUs.

The only paste that has curing time is Arctic Silver I think. Might be a tiny change as the paste spreads in the few minutes after application but not much more


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 9, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Item has arrived, tested it, and its around 3-4C worse than Kryonaut so far, maybe thats to be expected?


Weird.


ViperXTR said:


> Also, does this have burn in/curing time?


Nope, no curing or settling time.



tabascosauz said:


> Tom's tested Kryonaut on par with NT-H1


If this is true, I'm wondering what the differences are between my testing and ViperXTR's operating environment. My tests showed that MX-5 beat out NT-H1 by 3C idle and load and if Kryonaut is on par, then there must be a variance somewhere.

Still 3-4C difference is not the end of the world. Heck it's barely a blip on the temp radar..


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## ViperXTR (Nov 9, 2021)

Im on a tropical environment, so my temps are warmer than most of you folks. With semi freshly applied Kryonaut, highest i got on a warm day running 1hr stress test was 82C (gets around 85C after few months, and Kryonaut becomes solid material like thing). For MX-5 i get around 83-85 on fresh application.
It only reaches these temps on extreme workloads like stress test, handbrake it does a bit but slightly lower. RPCS3 (PS3 emulator) is pretty much like a CPU stress test as well (on some heavy hitter games), it loads all your physical cores and extensive use of AVX2 (and it will use AVX512 if your CPU is capable)


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 9, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Im on a tropical environment, so my temps are warmer than most of you folks. With semi freshly applied Kryonaut, highest i got on a warm day running 1hr stress test was 82C (gets around 85C after few months, and Kryonaut becomes solid material like thing). For MX-5 i get around 83-85 on fresh application.
> It only reaches these temps on extreme workloads like stress test, handbrake it does a bit but slightly lower. RPCS3 (PS3 emulator) is pretty much like a CPU stress test as well (on some heavy hitter games), it loads all your physical cores and extensive use of AVX2 (and it will use AVX512 if your CPU is capable)


Fair enough. I don't think MX-5 is ever going to become a solid material over time like many TIM's do.


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## Falkentyne (Nov 10, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> This tells me you've never used MX-5 as I have used both of those and the MX-5 is about the same viscosity if not a bit more.
> 
> I'm not saying it doesn't perform well, because it does. However, I'm not willing to accept 3-4c difference without testing to show such because that is not what I experienced when I tested it.
> 
> No doubt. $20 for 2grams? Yeah stupid expensive. And when I tested it last, it performed well, but not $20 for 2g well.



I've never used MX-5?  Oh really?  Do you have any idea how much thermal paste I have?
You really shouldn't assume things about people that you know absolutely *nothing* about.

I have *40 grams* of MX-5.  As well as 150 grams of homemade Galinstan, among many others.
In my own specific tests, MX-5 is about 3-4C worse than TFX.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 10, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> I have *40 grams* of MX-5.  As well as 150 grams of homemade Galinstan, among many others.
> In my own specific tests, MX-5 is about 3-4C worse than TFX.



What technique do you use for spreading TFX and SYY157? I'm thinking of revisiting my SYY results - might be leaving some performance on the table by not manually spreading


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 10, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> You really shouldn't assume things about people that you know absolutely *nothing* about.


It wasn't an assumption. You said the following...


Falkentyne said:


> MX-5 works fine but if you want the best temps on ADL, or on a hot power guggling RTX 3090, you definitely want to consider Thermalright TFX *for its higher viscosity*


...which is not the experience I had, my experience is that MX-5 is the more viscous TIM.

I'm not saying that TFX does not perform well because it does, but $14 for 2G? That price/performance ratio is pathetic. Thermalright TFX is not worth that. But Arctic's MX-5 at $12 for 8G? Hell yeah.

Someone said this;


tabascosauz said:


> Tom's tested Kryonaut on par with NT-H1


And I found a recent article at TH which compared TF4 to NT-H1 along with many others including MX-5. Tom's findings almost identically match mine in comparative temperature differential, NT-H1 VS MX-5. Courtesy of Toms Hardware, the images below show their results. One set of tests with a Noctua NT-D15 with low tension, another with the D15 and high tension and a third set with an Elite360 AIO;

As you can see, with both sets of tests using the D15, the results are the same, MX-5 beating NT-H1 by about 3C and matching NT-H2. With the Elite360, all of the premium TIMs were on par with each other indicating that the AIO was more than able to handle the thermal load and heat saturation seemed to not be a factor in that test. The conclusion one can easily see is that MX-5 a top performer and stands nose to nose with far more expensive brands.

What I did find for TFX is the following;





						Unboxing and Review of Thermalright TFX Thermal Compound | UnbxTech
					






					www.unbxtech.com
				





> It ranks third and forth in the two other tests, trailing behind Noctua NT-H1 and NT-H2 (its review here).


Their NT-H2 review shows a similar result to Toms, thus giving their result credibility and merit. Their testing shows TFX falling behind both NT-H1 and NT-H2.

In both Toms tests and mine, MX-5 performs better than NT-H1. The conclusion is clear.

So if you're saying that TFX is doing better than MX-5, then there is something very hinky going on with your testing setup because the 3-4C better performance you claim TFX is getting does *not* match UnbxTech & Toms testing, nor mine. Add to this the fact that you claim TFX is more viscous than MX-5 and I have to raise an eyebrow, thus my above statement.

PS, Just in case anyone attempts to make the accusation, I did my testing in June. Toms did their testing last month. So no, I did not copy them. The fact that our comparative results match well only proves two things, 1. My testing methodology is spot on and valid, followed by 2. That MX-5 is one of the best performing TIMs on the market, handily beating out TIMs 3 or more times it's cost.


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## Falkentyne (Nov 10, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> What technique do you use for spreading TFX and SYY157? I'm thinking of revisiting my SYY results - might be leaving some performance on the table by not manually spreading



Thermalright TFX I simply yeet it   Boil some water to "almost" boiling in a pot, remove the pot from stove, throw the TFX syringe in there for about 10 minutes, nozzle covered, drain the hot water, let it cool a few minutes, then spread the TFX with a spatula in even "long" strokes across the entire die.  Works perfectly.  If you have a hair dryer, that's a lot quicker and easier.
Hot air stations I know nothing about.  I would assume they don't go as low as 80C on the lowest setting, so I'm not getting into that.

That being said, the TFX tube I have I didn't even need to heat the syringe when I applied a layer to my RTX 3090 FE after I re-did the thermal pads on that card.  It was harder to spread than SYY without pre-heating but it worked fine.  Some TFX tubes tend to be massively difficult.  The 6.2g tubes seem to be a more consistent from apparent Amazon reviews than the 2g tubes are.

SYY-157 is much easier to spread as long as you don't get a dried out syringe.  Just apply it and off you go.  Use even, full strokes.
That Zezzio 14.8 w/mk thermal paste is identical 100% to SYY-157...it's the exact same paste.

FuzeIce Plus and Alseye T9+ Platinum both perform about the same as SYY-157, however they both seem to be a lot "stickier" than SYY-157.  SYY-157 is sort of between FuzeIce Plus and TFX.
TFX performs the best (maybe about 1-2C better than SYY-157).


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## Space Lynx (Nov 10, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Thermalright TFX I simply yeet it   Boil some water to "almost" boiling in a pot, remove the pot from stove, throw the TFX syringe in there for about 10 minutes, nozzle covered, drain the hot water, let it cool a few minutes, then spread the TFX with a spatula in even "long" strokes across the entire die.  Works perfectly.  If you have a hair dryer, that's a lot quicker and easier.
> Hot air stations I know nothing about.  I would assume they don't go as low as 80C on the lowest setting, so I'm not getting into that.
> 
> That being said, the TFX tube I have I didn't even need to heat the syringe when I applied a layer to my RTX 3090 FE after I re-did the thermal pads on that card.  It was harder to spread than SYY without pre-heating but it worked fine.  Some TFX tubes tend to be massively difficult.  The 6.2g tubes seem to be a more consistent from apparent Amazon reviews than the 2g tubes are.
> ...



for my next build I think I will give this thermalright tfx a try and stop being a cheap ass.  lol


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## Falkentyne (Nov 10, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> It wasn't an assumption. You said the following...
> 
> ...which is not the experience I had, my experience is that MX-5 is the more viscous TIM.
> 
> ...



Tom's hardware is full of crap.

The Brazilian site (which I got banned from for just trying to REGISTER there) had TFX in the lead ahead of all the other pastes.
Laptop tests have also shown Thermalright TFX to be in the lead, with SYY-157, FuzeIce Plus and Alseye T9+ Platinum very close behind it.
MX-5 did terribly in these tests, but better than MX-4.

I'm not posting the notebookreview laptop thread again.  I posted it before.  I don't need to repeat myself.  If you dont want to read it that's on you.

On desktops, there is far less of a difference between any of these pastes.

Even Mr. Fox on notebookreview has tested these pastes and on desktops with decent PSI pressure, most of these pastes are within 2C of each other.  Then what matters is long term durability.

You are 100% free to bash my "imperfect" tests (I have OCD--i make 100% sure I test perfectly and consistently), but I tested MX-5 on a 1) 9900k, 2) 10900k, 3) GTX 1070 Laptop (TDP modded) and in each case, MX-5 was behind SYY-157 by a few C.  (laptop was 74C for MX-5, 72C for SYY-157 with TFX at 69C on the GPU).

On the 9900k, TFX, SYY-157 and FuzeIce Plus seemed to be within 1C of each other.  (I've seen TFX on my 10900k improve by 2C After a week however, which is equal to what some Japanese users found).

This is a free country.  You're free to disagree with my tests.  Other people have tested TFX and have been very happy with it.  Including people on OCN who were having Kryonaut and Kryonaut Extreme both "dry out" on RTX 3090 video cards, and switched to TFX and had it a lot more consistent.

If your results have MX-5 ahead of TFX, then enjoy your MX-5.  I'll enjoy my TFX.
Take care.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 10, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Tom's hardware is full of crap.


And you must think UnbxTech & I am too... Whatever.


Falkentyne said:


> Take care.


Yup..


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## Shrek (Nov 11, 2021)

Anyone tried Cooler Master Ice Fusion V2?

Ice Fusion V2 High Thermal Conductivity Compound | Cooler Master


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## Space Lynx (Nov 11, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Anyone tried Cooler Master Ice Fusion V2?
> 
> Ice Fusion V2 High Thermal Conductivity Compound | Cooler Master



its only listed as  5 (W/m-K)

seems a bit weak. probably a bulk item just for system builders to keep costs cheap. I already decided I am going to stop being a cheap ass and get this tfx stuff when i do my next gen build.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 11, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Anyone tried Cooler Master Ice Fusion V2?
> 
> Ice Fusion V2 High Thermal Conductivity Compound | Cooler Master


Didn't know about it. Gonna try it?


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## Shrek (Nov 11, 2021)

Probably not, that is why I was wondering if anyone had already tried.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 11, 2021)

does anyone know if liquid metal conductonaut is safe long term? i know it has to be copper heatsink only. i am thinking i am going to go balls out, watch videos, do it properly on cpu and gpu in fall 2022 when i go big on next gen build. its got to be what 3-4 celsius better than even TFX, which is like 7-8 celsius gain over mx-5. and if done right, conductonaut never needs to be replaced.

hmm... to be risky or not to be risky, that is the question...


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 11, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> does anyone know if liquid metal conductonaut is safe long term? i know it has to be copper heatsink only. i am thinking i am going to go balls out, watch videos, do it properly on cpu and gpu in fall 2022 when i go big on next gen build.


On a GPU there can be solid benefits with out much risk as long as you go sparingly with the LM. On CPU's the benefit is minimal unless you sand and polish down the top of the IHS or go bare-die(IE delid, currently a very difficult and dangerous task).


lynx29 said:


> next gen build. its got to be what 3-4 celsius better than even TFX, *which is like 7-8 celsius gain over mx-5*.


I'm not accepting that. TFX is handily beaten by NT-H1 and MX-5 does better than NT-H1. You already have the better performers, don't waste your money on something that will not perform as well.


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## Shrek (Nov 11, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> its got to be what 3-4 celsius better than even TFX, which is like 7-8 celsius gain over mx-5.



How on Earth does one get a 10°C drop across a paste?


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 11, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> How on Earth does one get a 10°C drop across a paste?


It depends on the paste. As linked before, Tom's shows a 24c difference between the best and the worst they tested last month. If you take out the outliers(Liquid Metal TIMs & Alphacool Silver), the gap closes to 13C.

However, of the top 30 performers there is *less* than 9C between them. So for anyone to claim that TFX is 3-4C away from LM  and better than ANY of the top 30 by 7-8C is mathematically impossible.

Put as simply as possible, TFX is not better than many of the TIMs being made, not better than NT-H2 or MX-5 and certainly not within 3-4C of LM. Anyone making that claim needs to prove up with testing that shows results.


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## TheinsanegamerN (Nov 11, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Probably not, that is why I was wondering if anyone had already tried.


We used that stuff in my comp hardware class years ago. 

It works, technically, its better thent eh stock garbage that comes on machines. However, dont expect great performance out of high wattage chips. It'd work fine for a core i3 or locked i5. Also, it is a messy disaster to work with. Imagine trying to scoop soup up with that flat spatula, and that's about how easy it is to use.


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## Shrek (Nov 11, 2021)

Version 1 or 2 of Ice Fusion?


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## TheinsanegamerN (Nov 11, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Version 1 or 2 of Ice Fusion?


Likely V1, although outside of branding I'd bet there is practically 0 difference between v1 and v2 other then the label.


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## Shrek (Nov 11, 2021)

Big claimed difference in thermal conductivity


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## Space Lynx (Nov 11, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> On a GPU there can be solid benefits with out much risk as long as you go sparingly with the LM. On CPU's the benefit is minimal unless you sand and polish down the top of the IHS or go bare-die(IE delid, currently a very difficult and dangerous task).
> 
> I'm not accepting that. TFX is handily beaten by NT-H1 and MX-5 does better than NT-H1. You already have the better performers, don't waste your money on something that will not perform as well.



tfx performs better than conductonaut even on desktop platforms? i was not aware of this... hmm


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## TheinsanegamerN (Nov 11, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Big claimed difference in thermal conductivity


It's cheap bottom tier paste man. They can go from full suck to half suck and claim "big difference in suckage" and they're technically correct. 

If you have a penny, and you get two more pennies, technically you've tripled your wealth! You're still broke as shit though. Same concept.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 11, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> tfx performs better than conductonaut even on desktop platforms? i was not aware of this... hmm


Wait, what? I think you are misunderstanding the facts. TFX does *not* perform better than LM TIM or even most of TIMs available.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 11, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Wait, what? I think you are misunderstanding the facts. TFX does *not* perform better than LM TIM or even most of TIMs available.



yummy dyslexia


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## Falkentyne (Nov 17, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> does anyone know if liquid metal conductonaut is safe long term? i know it has to be copper heatsink only. i am thinking i am going to go balls out, watch videos, do it properly on cpu and gpu in fall 2022 when i go big on next gen build. its got to be what 3-4 celsius better than even TFX, which is like 7-8 celsius gain over mx-5. and if done right, conductonaut never needs to be replaced.
> 
> hmm... to be risky or not to be risky, that is the question...



Copper heatsink?
It's safe if you do some prep work.

First if you're applying it on a delidded IHS that will be re-lidded:
1) apply LM on the IHS, both above (if you are applying LM onto the heatsink), and under IHS (the part that will contact the die), normal procedure for any delid+relid so far.
2) Put the IHS in an oven (DO NOT PUT A CPU IN THE OVEN).
3) bake the IHS at 100C (212F) for about 2 hours.
4) Remove IHS, let it cool, wipe the LM off the IHS with a lint free wiper or coffee filter.  Do not apply excessive pressure, just gently wipe the LM off but leave the silver stain behind.
You don't want "strange tiny particles" to come off the metal in the form of grit, those tiny particles will interfere with full contact.
5) Apply a new layer of LM both above and under the IHS, on top of the old silver stain layer.  This will give very long term durability of LM on your IHS.
Set the IHS aside somewhere while you now work on the heatsink or block.

For heatsink/heat block surface, you need to do more work.
First get some 1500 grit sandpaper.
Then carefully wipe the entire heatsink/heatblock surface with the sandpaper. You are not trying to flatten or fix any curvature imperfections (if you want to do that you're on your own with proper sanding methods).  You're only just roughening up the surface to give the LM something to adhere to under pressure.
Once you buff the surface with 1500 grit, clean it fully with a lint free cloth or coffee filter.
Then apply your LM to the surface.
If you aren't using an IHS, you can skip this obviously.

Now, the long boring part.

Take about 15 minutes and carefully wipe gently, the LM around with a lint free swab.   Lint free lip gloss applicators are perfect for this.


			Amazon.com
		

It's very important NOT to apply any downwards pressure.  You again don't want tiny particles of metal grit getting scooped from the little micro-crevices you created with the sandpaper, and as you know, copper is a rather soft metal, as far as metals go.  Just let gravity do the work.
After about 10 minutes of wiping and spreading the LM all around repeatedly, you're going to start noticing the LM getting much less runny and starting to feel 'thicker', almost like an extremely runny thermal paste.  That's exactly what you want.  Because it means some of the gallium is starting to get absorbed into the micro-crevices you made with the sandpaper.
So spend about 15 minutes wiping it like this.  Make sure the surface does not feel gritty when wiping with the applicator.  If it feels gritty, you need to start over.  Not only does doing all of this work help start immediate absorption of some of the gallium part of the LM into the copper (or nickel plating), but it also helps keep the LM from shifting around under pressure.  LM really likes rough surfaces.  You'll notice that if you take a ball of LM and try to 'spread' it on a mirror finish copper or nickel plating, it won't want to spread at all.  It just wants to stick to itself.  That's because the mirror surface is giving extremely poor grip and adhesion to the LM.  These surfaces also tend to have the most degradation of LM quickly as well.  Now if you do the same on a 1500 grit buffed surface, you will see the LM spreads almost instantly.  That's because of the grip from the micro-crevices which helps give the LM something to stick to.  This becomes very important when you compress the surfaces together during IHS/heatsink mounting.

After about 15 minutes, now apply a new layer of LM on top of the old layer (don't remove the old layer).  A drop or two will do (but make sure you apply the new fresh layer on top).
Then spread it normally without another long spread, like you're used to doing, then apply LM to the CPU (or GPU) core, attach the IHS (if applicable), then apply the heatsink or block on top.

This will give very long durability over time.


----------



## urban_eagle (Nov 19, 2021)

Hi all, first post. Came across you guys while looking into GD007 and GD900-1. I work in industry but also build/repair on the side, swearing by GD900 for some time now due to its price; no-brainer for the amount I go through. 

Really enjoyed this thread, some fantastic knowledge and results.

First off, you guys are correct, thermal conductivity ratings are in no way an accurate indication of performance. Real world test are the way to go. Which is why we are running trials at work to negate various compounds.

There are many GD fakes across the whole range, and this shows in the varied results everywhere, including my own experiences. The only sellers i now trust, are those posted on the manufacture's site:

Halfway down (MSNancy's Thermal Grease Store)

As for longevity I've used many HY and GD compounds, and although most are awful (All HY are), GD900 is special, making note of 3 year reapplies in towers, tops and machinery (inverters, amps, etc...) it has, in worse case developed a firm area wherever the air touches, but it stays 'wet' inside (<150C). Like the universal stuff they use at work, Dow Corning 340, awful stuff but stays 'wet'.

Once I receive everything ordered, I'll be running tests on my i7 and some equipment that runs around 150C. Extreme, but we are running trials at work, and it won't hurt sharing these and my private results with you guys.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 19, 2021)

urban_eagle said:


> Hi all, first post. Came across you guys while looking into GD007 and GD900-1. I work in industry but also build/repair on the side, swearing by GD900 for some time now due to its price; no-brainer for the amount I go through.
> 
> Really enjoyed this thread, some fantastic knowledge and results.
> 
> ...


Welcome to TPU! We invite the testing you intend to do. However, to stay on topic I recommend getting some MX-5 to include in your testing as this is a thread surrounding that TIM. I would love to see 150C testing on MX-5. Potentially very interesting!


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## fluxc0d3r (Dec 3, 2021)

I was going to get the MX-5 for my new Alder Lake setup, but decided to try out the new Zezzio 14.8 W/mK Thermal Paste on my i5 12600KF with Asus TUF AIO. Idle temps around 25-26C with fans at less than 800 rpm, can get down to 23 C when ambient temps are cooler. Playing Halo Infinite I get mid 30s with fans never exceeding 1300 rpm. Max temp around 47C but rarely stays there when gaming. I have a very hot 3070 Ti in a poorly ventilated case with front mounted AIO, so you could be getting better temps with other better airflow case. I got 66C max on Cinebench test but that was right after I built the system, I've got a significant temp drop since then after the thermal grease settled in and fans optimized.

I did the line method when applying thermal paste and used LGA 1200 mounts on a Asus Z690 motherboard. With LGA1700 mounts you could be getting much better mounting pressure and surface contact on your Alder Lake cpu.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 3, 2021)

fluxc0d3r said:


> Zezzio 14.8 W/mK Thermal Paste


?!? This?


			Amazon.com


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 3, 2021)

After all, I have to say that MX5 was disappointing. I prefer MX4 more than this.


----------



## fluxc0d3r (Dec 3, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> ?!? This?
> 
> 
> Amazon.com





			Amazon.ca
		


Says 14.8 must be typo. it is 14.3. It was between this and Iceberg FuzeIce Plus, Zezzio was cheaper and had better specs. I really like the applicator on the FuzeIce Plus though.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 3, 2021)

Dear Gurus,

A  Question,

My laptop:
ASUS G513QY  ADVANTAGE EDITION
RYZEN 5900HX
RX6800M GPU

Currently I use Gelid GC Extreme, CPU maxing 97c and GPU hotspot maxing 99c. With LM (Both stock LM and my own LM), GPU hotspot was going up to 103c. So interestingly, paste better than LM on GPU hotspot.

Here one reddit guy made lab test and explains why its possible that paste works better than LM on this laptop:

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLaptops/comments/p59zbl

1. I bought SYY and it will arrive to me in 2-3 weeks, I want change from Gelid GC Extreme to SYY. Can I expect better CPU/GPU temps from SYY?
2. Can you suggest your GPU hotspot temps and CPU temps before/after SYY? (those who use SYY)

3. European benchmark website shows SYY almost in par with TFX and even beats krynount and beats by far Gelid GC Extreme:
https://albestech.com/migliore-pasta-termica-2021/ 
what is your say on this?

4. CPU Die smaller than GPU die, any suggestions for better paste applying technique for each?  Here how motherboard looks (source ROG forum):


			We'll be back.
		


Some other sources mentioned also SYY par with TFX....
Few comments online suggesting SYY does great on laptops....

Same time i think i saw TomsHardware SYY benchmark was less good than krynount and some others... maybe TomsHardware had some issue with SYY application or got defective/lower quality batch.....

Thank you!


----------



## Falkentyne (Dec 3, 2021)

fluxc0d3r said:


> I was going to get the MX-5 for my new Alder Lake setup, but decided to try out the new Zezzio 14.8 W/mK Thermal Paste on my i5 12600KF with Asus TUF AIO. Idle temps around 25-26C with fans at less than 800 rpm, can get down to 23 C when ambient temps are cooler. Playing Halo Infinite I get mid 30s with fans never exceeding 1300 rpm. Max temp around 47C but rarely stays there when gaming. I have a very hot 3070 Ti in a poorly ventilated case with front mounted AIO, so you could be getting better temps with other better airflow case. I got 66C max on Cinebench test but that was right after I built the system, I've got a significant temp drop since then after the thermal grease settled in and fans optimized.
> 
> I did the line method when applying thermal paste and used LGA 1200 mounts on a Asus Z690 motherboard. With LGA1700 mounts you could be getting much better mounting pressure and surface contact on your Alder Lake cpu.



Getting a bit off topic, but....

I think you mean their "14.3 w/mk" paste, not 14.8 w/mk.  Zezzio's thermal paste is the *exact* same paste as SYY-157.  It either comes from the same factory or is another supplier of it.  They are 100% identical (at least as much so as Thermalright TFX and Thermagic ZF-EX are).  Tested them both side by side and did close fingerprint mash tests...it's the exact same stuff.

Now, as to Zezzio's 14.8 w/mk thermal pads...no idea what their OEM/supplier is for these.  They are quite light in color.  What is known is they have the same heat transfer as Gelid Extremes (a user on ocuk, I think koeiwang?) tested them side by side with Gelid Extremes on an Ampere video card), and they seem to be about the same or very slightly softer than Gelid Extremes.  Unknown if they also turn 'gooey' with high heat like the Gelid Extreme (85mm * 45mm) pads are known to do.   Note that the 120mm * 120mm Chinese only SKU of Gelid Extremes seem to be slightly different (color is darker) and unknown if they also turn gooey).



ryzenmaster said:


> Dear Gurus,
> 
> A  Question,



Not trying to armchair moderate here, but both here, Notebookreview and many other places, you've literally asked the EXACT SAME QUESTION in multiple points over and over.
If no one knows the answer to your question, what good is it to ask the same exact question four different times in one forum?  In fact maybe buy the pastes yourself and post some results?  
There have been a lot of feedback and temp posts about SYY, TFX and etc on notebookreview already, which you seem to have conveniently ignored....

SYY-157 and TFX is about the same on DESKTOP CPU's on top of IHS.  You even posted a review yourself showing these exact results yet you still asked what's better.   Why?
The TFX review on the notebookreview forums show slightly better performance on laptops.
I also prefer TFX on GPUs because TFX is better due to its high viscosity, on non flat GPU surfaces like RTX chips.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 3, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Getting a bit off topic, but....
> 
> I think you mean their "14.3 w/mk" paste, not 14.8 w/mk.  Zezzio's thermal paste is the *exact* same paste as SYY-157.  It either comes from the same factory or is another supplier of it.  They are 100% identical (at least as much so as Thermalright TFX and Thermagic ZF-EX are).  Tested them both side by side and did close fingerprint mash tests...it's the exact same stuff.
> 
> ...



I actually paid for both SYY and Iceberg thermal plus, both to arrive to me from US in 2-3 weeks, than I will change gelid gc extreme to SYY.

I bought iceberg thermal plus as backup option,  as this paste had some goood vibes online. 

So bottom line, you say on laptop ... I can expect SYY give similar results to TFX?


----------



## fluxc0d3r (Dec 4, 2021)

SYY should give you similar results as TFX, though TFX is still slightly better. Both are top-tier thermal grease. I don't think SYY and Zezzio are related, because the conductivity ratings are different.  

Issue with SYY is that it is really thick, and not easy to apply. The Zezzio was quite easy to apply. 

The ONLY thermal grease that I WANT is super hard to find is the Cougar TC-5888, which is made by DOW. Just released and seen on JD.com. It's highly recommended by Asian overclockers.

Here's a link for the Cougar TC-5888: https://item.jd.com/10029456260263.html

I've seen a lot of new Youtube videos where Chinese system builders are using this stuff and wondering where to find it. Guess it's only available in Asian markets for now.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 4, 2021)

Thanks this is great !

Any suggestions how better apply SYY on each die 5900hx and the RX6800M?

Put SYY in hot boil water cup first before apply to make it easier to apply?

Photos attached from previous lab service repasting day...gelid gc extreme used here.

BTW crazy noob question: anyone tried mix different pastes ?


----------



## fluxc0d3r (Dec 4, 2021)




----------



## Falkentyne (Dec 4, 2021)

fluxc0d3r said:


> SYY should give you similar results as TFX, though TFX is still slightly better. Both are top-tier thermal grease. I don't think SYY and Zezzio are related, because the conductivity ratings are different.
> 
> Issue with SYY is that it is really thick, and not easy to apply. The Zezzio was quite easy to apply.
> 
> ...



Conductivity ratings are very often hogwash.
The Zezzio thermal pads are rated as 14.8 w/mk but are the exact same temp performance as Gelid Extreme's 12 w/mk pads, on a 3080 FE video card.  They were tested both on the exact same card.

I also as I mentioned earlier, have several tubes of SYY-157 and I bought the Zezzio "14.3 w/mk" thermal paste as soon as it appeared on Amazon.  It's the exact same as SYY-157, and the temps are exactly 0C different.  Also I don't know why I'm the only one who caught it, but Zezzio simply copied TFX's back label *exactly*.  Their wording on the back of their packaging is 100% identical to what Thermalright puts on their packaging.  Including the "HARMLESS: YES" part.  That's why they have it as the same w/mk as TFX.  But TFX slightly outperforms both SYY-157 and Zezzio on laptops and GPU's, although they are almost the same on desktop CPU's.  It also has the exact same physical properties, when you check by doing a fingerprint spread test. (Compare that to TFX, you will notice that TFX leaves a 'thicker' sheen on your finger, while SYY/Zezzio leaves a thinner sheen.  FuzeIce Plus / Alseye T9+ Platinum (which also seem to be identical) leave a much wetter sheen, and of course they are the easiest to spread.  All of those pastes are nano-carbon, rather than traditional silicone pastes.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 4, 2021)

fluxc0d3r said:


> View attachment 227548


I don't know where this graph came from, but it does not agree with information found elsewhere about the performance of TFX. This graph is rubbish and nonsense until properly cited. That said...



ryzenmaster said:


> Any suggestions how better apply SYY on each die 5900hx and the RX6800M?
> 
> Put SYY in hot boil water cup first before apply to make it easier to apply?


...this should work and SYY should provide reasonable performance for your system. Keep in mind that thermal paste is not a magic wonder solution that will solve all your cooling problems. It's just a tool to help make thermal transfer more efficient. The limiting factor for your desired temps is the cooling system employed in that laptop. If that heatsink/fan setup can't drop your temps to levels you desire, you're only realistic solution is to downclock the CPU/GPU so that they don't create as much heat.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 4, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I don't know where this graph came from, but it does not agree with information found elsewhere about the performance of TFX. This graph is rubbish and nonsense until properly cited. That said...
> 
> 
> ...this should work and SYY should provide reasonable performance for your system. Keep in mind that thermal paste is not a magic wonder solution that will solve all your cooling problems. It's just a tool to help make thermal transfer more efficient. The limiting factor for your desired temps is the cooling system employed in that laptop. If that heatsink/fan setup can't drop your temps to levels you desire, you're only realistic solution is to downclock the CPU/GPU so that they don't create as much heat.



Ok so at least now I have even more hope that SYY will drop some Celsius versus gelid gc extreme

Any particular apply method that is better in my case ?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 4, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> Any particular apply method that is better in my case ?


If SYY is thick, warming it up like you suggested above might be helpful. Just make a smooth thin layer on the CPU/GPU dies and put the heatsink on. The mounting pressure will take care of the rest. You're good after that.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 4, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> If SYY is thick, warming it up like you suggested above might be helpful. Just make a smooth thin layer on the CPU/GPU dies and put the heatsink on. The mounting pressure will take care of the rest. You're good after that.


Thin layer on cooling chamber side too?
Hello about add some dots ?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 4, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> Thin layer on cooling chamber side too?


Can't hurt.


ryzenmaster said:


> Hello about add some dots ?


I don't do the dots thing. I spread a thin layer to guarantee even and complete coverage. Air pockets are never a thing as mounting pressure from the heatsink mechanism will push any air out along with the excess thermal paste. If you look back to my posts here, you will see what I mean. When I say "Thin Layer" I really do mean thin.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 4, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Can't hurt.
> 
> I don't do the dots thing. I spread a thin layer to guarantee even and complete coverage. Air pockets are never a thing as mounting pressure from the heatsink mechanism will push any air out along with the excess thermal paste. If you look back to my posts here, you will see what I mean. When I say "Thin Layer" I really do mean thin.



You sure this approach of so thin layer without a dot works for laptops? as laptop has not so high pressure mounting, wouldn't an extra dot in middle assure better filler?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 4, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> You sure this approach of so thin layer without a dot works for laptops? as laptop has not so high pressure mounting, wouldn't an extra dot in middle assure better filler?


I'm sure.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 4, 2021)

You want it thin but not translucent. I draw a line down the side and pull it over to the other side with a spatula. There is such a thing as too much, trust me.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 4, 2021)

freeagent said:


> You want it thin but not translucent. I draw a line down the side and pull it over to the other side with a spatula. There is such a thing as too much, trust me.


Any photos or illustrations?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 4, 2021)

freeagent said:


> You want it thin but not translucent.


This.



ryzenmaster said:


> Any photos or illustrations?


See my above post.
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/posts/4534033
These photos should give you an idea.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 4, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> Any photos or illustrations?


I haven't taken any, sorry 

Mostly because I didn't think anyone would care


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 4, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok folks, testing is done.
> 
> Let's state the particulars.
> 
> ...



But should not paste cover whole die?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 4, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> But should not paste cover whole die?


Of course. Keep in mind, you're working on a laptop with a bare die whereas I was working with a desktop CPU in that testing run. However, I always use the same spreading method across laptop CPU/GPU die that I use on CPU's with an IHS.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 4, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Here is how each was applied. I did not take photos of the Noctua NT-H1 as I forgot to. It didn't look any different than the DRG102.
> 
> DRG102
> View attachment 202525View attachment 202526
> ...



Interesting, I never felt the need to cover both surfaces; I just cover the chip area as I am concerned more on the heatsink may just attract dust.



lexluthermiester said:


> Whining about what I did or didn't do that somehow doesn't meet with your satisfaction will only earn you an unpleasant reaction, which will likely include open and public mocking.
> 
> Only warning.



I is ready 

I may have asked before, but is the copper grease electrically conductive?


----------



## Metroid (Dec 4, 2021)

Maenad said:


> After all, I have to say that MX5 was disappointing. I prefer MX4 more than this.


I was about to buy the mx-5 and I have a mx-4, after I have seen few reviews, I decided not to buy the mx-5 anymore. They are pretty close and that is within the margin of error, so no point if you already have a big tube of mx-4(my case), that will last for me at least 3 years down the line.


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 4, 2021)

Metroid said:


> I was about to buy the mx-5 and I have a mx-4, after I have seen few reviews, I decided not to buy the mx-5 anymore. They are pretty close and that is within the margin of error, so no point if you already have a big tube of mx-4(my case), that will last for me at least 3 years down the line.


Exactly. I bought a 8g tube of MX4 the last time when I bought paste, and I'll stick with this also in the future.

The construction of MX5 was also annoying. MX4 behaves like traditional paste.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 4, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Interesting, I never felt the need to cover both surfaces;


My experience has been that it just works better.


Andy Shiekh said:


> I just cover the chip area as I am concerned more on the heatsink may just attract dust.


How? The surfaces will be joined together and in direct contact. How would dust get in to that space at all and in a way that is different from applying TIM only to the CPU?



Metroid said:


> I was about to buy the mx-5 and I have a mx-4, after I have seen few reviews, I decided not to buy the mx-5 anymore. They are pretty close and that is within the margin of error, so no point if you already have a big tube of mx-4(my case), that will last for me at least 3 years down the line.


Gentlemen, @W1zzard uses MX-5 as a default for testing as of late. He can afford & use whatever he wishes and he defaults to MX-5. You can call my testing and conclusions into question all you wish, but you then have to question all of W1zzard's recent testing as well.

Give that a moment of thought.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 4, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> How? The surfaces will be joined together and in direct contact. How would dust get in to that space at all and in a way that is different from applying TIM only to the CPU?



I imagine the area covered on the heatsink might be larger than needed; this overhang might attract some dust, even if it does not affect the cooling.

Maybe one fine day you will add GD900 to your test list.

Might I ask you throw the probes of your digital multi-meter into the copper grease to tell us if it is electrically conductive or not.


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 4, 2021)

Come continue your fight on my thread guys 









						The Official Thermal Interface Material thread
					

No need for another single thread, let's use this for questions and suggestions. :)




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Shrek (Dec 4, 2021)

I've been suspended from a thread before, so while I would love to; I would not dare...


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 4, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I've been suspended from a thread before, so while I would love to; I would not dare...


Well, just keep it cool this time when arguing about pastes etc (pun intended)


----------



## Shrek (Dec 4, 2021)

I do try... I sing the virtues of GD900 but nobody picks up the gauntlet; to be honest for me it's all about longevity and that is never really covered.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 4, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> this overhang might attract some dust, even if it does not affect the cooling.


Not going to affect performance. You likely won't even be able to see the dust that is attracted.



Maenad said:


> Come continue your fight on my thread guys
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hope it doesn't seem like fighting. Not my intention. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression...


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 4, 2021)

I mean we consumers don't see anything else than maybe one C of difference between pastes, as we don't have controlled environmental testing temp etc. when comparing pastes.

Like I said, I like MX4 because it's so easy to apply (and also cleaning it is easy). Still it's known to be one of the best pastes.



lexluthermiester said:


> I hope it doesn't seem like fighting. Not my intention. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression...


Nah don't take it that literally (and Andy too!)


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 4, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I sing the virtues of GD900


No worries. I do not doubt that it performs well.


Andy Shiekh said:


> but nobody picks up the gauntlet


I'd test it but from what I've seen it performs very well and on the same general level of many of the rest of the good performers on the TIM market. Earlier this year, I went through all the effort of testing MX-5 because of it's unique characteristics and because is was the new hotness.


Andy Shiekh said:


> to be honest for me it's all about longevity and that is never really covered.


This is tough to test long-term.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 4, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> This is tough to test long-term.



I agree, we ignore it because it's not easy to test; but I imagine the military have worried about such things and wonder if they have anything.



lexluthermiester said:


> I hope it doesn't seem like fighting. Not my intention. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression...



I think you actually gave such a good impression she wanted you dueling on her thread...


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 4, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I agree, we ignore it because it's not easy to test; but I imagine the military have worried about such things and wonder if they have anything.
> 
> 
> 
> I think you actually gave such a good impression *she* wanted you dueling on her thread...


Yo, I'm a he, not a she


----------



## fluxc0d3r (Dec 4, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Conductivity ratings are very often hogwash.
> The Zezzio thermal pads are rated as 14.8 w/mk but are the exact same temp performance as Gelid Extreme's 12 w/mk pads, on a 3080 FE video card.  They were tested both on the exact same card.
> 
> I also as I mentioned earlier, have several tubes of SYY-157 and I bought the Zezzio "14.3 w/mk" thermal paste as soon as it appeared on Amazon.  It's the exact same as SYY-157, and the temps are exactly 0C different.  Also I don't know why I'm the only one who caught it, but Zezzio simply copied TFX's back label *exactly*.  Their wording on the back of their packaging is 100% identical to what Thermalright puts on their packaging.  Including the "HARMLESS: YES" part.  That's why they have it as the same w/mk as TFX.  But TFX slightly outperforms both SYY-157 and Zezzio on laptops and GPU's, although they are almost the same on desktop CPU's.  It also has the exact same physical properties, when you check by doing a fingerprint spread test. (Compare that to TFX, you will notice that TFX leaves a 'thicker' sheen on your finger, while SYY/Zezzio leaves a thinner sheen.  FuzeIce Plus / Alseye T9+ Platinum (which also seem to be identical) leave a much wetter sheen, and of course they are the easiest to spread.  All of those pastes are nano-carbon, rather than traditional silicone pastes.



You should try the Nab Cooling Thermal Pads rated at 15W/mK and they are cheaper than the Thermalright 15W "pink" pads that just came out. Although I was getting good temps on my 3070 Ti, they dropped the GDDR6X temps by another 8-10 degrees, thinking of getting thinner ones for my m.2 drive. 

It depends how you applied the thermal grease, I applied the line method on my Alder Lake chip. Most people just do the blob in the middle, which I always did and decided to try different methods this time around.


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 4, 2021)

fluxc0d3r said:


> they dropped the GDDR6X temps by another 8-10 degrees


Does all GDDR6X run that hot what they say?


----------



## fluxc0d3r (Dec 4, 2021)

Maenad said:


> Does all GDDR6X run that hot what they say?


Yes, GDDR6X do run hot and consume more power. I only got the 3070 Ti because it was $100 cheaper than the cheapest 3070 and I was lucky to get it at MSRP around $600, which was in the same price bracket as many 3060 Ti's. I was going for a budget build because my case has limited airflow and anything more powerful would create too much heat inside the case. At first I was getting 80 degrees on my (triple fan cooler) GPU, 90 degrees on memory and hotspot due to AIO at the front and obstructing airflow when I first built my PC. After settling in and optimizing my fan curves through an app, I was able to drop all temps by 15-20 degrees, while making the whole system a lot more quieter. The new Nab Cooling thermal pads dropped the memory temps again by another 8-10 degrees.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 4, 2021)

fluxc0d3r said:


> You should try the Nab Cooling Thermal Pads rated at 15W/mK and they are cheaper than the Thermalright 15W "pink" pads that just came out. Although I was getting good temps on my 3070 Ti, they dropped the GDDR6X temps by another 8-10 degrees, thinking of getting thinner ones for my m.2 drive.
> 
> It depends how you applied the thermal grease, I applied the line method on my Alder Lake chip. Most people just do the blob in the middle, which I always did and decided to try different methods this time around.


Man... those are awesome results! If you don't mind me asking, what were the thickness of the pads you used? I get good temps with mine too, but lower is always better, and I have been considering doing this for the past couple of months now. My hot spot temp is always 10c higher than my core temp but I have been hesitant on pulling the card apart since stock is all messed up.. But I think it should probably be ok.. 

If I could knock off even 5c from my mem temps I would be happy.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 4, 2021)

So what's the conclusion what way best to apply? when SYY comes for my G513QY laptop...


----------



## Falkentyne (Dec 4, 2021)

fluxc0d3r said:


> You should try the Nab Cooling Thermal Pads rated at 15W/mK and they are cheaper than the Thermalright 15W "pink" pads that just came out. Although I was getting good temps on my 3070 Ti, they dropped the GDDR6X temps by another 8-10 degrees, thinking of getting thinner ones for my m.2 drive.
> 
> It depends how you applied the thermal grease, I applied the line method on my Alder Lake chip. Most people just do the blob in the middle, which I always did and decided to try different methods this time around.


These, right?


			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B095NLM3X4/
		


The "Nab" cooling pads are rebadged Gelid Ultimates.

I forgot who verified this but it was either on ocuk or reddit.
Keep in mind that Gelid does not make their own pads.  They are a reseller, just like Thermalright.
The only company that actually owns their own factories is Halnizye in Shenzhen, who sells to a ton of parties (Alseye is one of their very large OEMs, at least in China).

As far as the TM Valor Odin pads, No idea how they compare to Gelid Ultimates or Fujipoly 17 w/mk pads, but I assume that's who they're going up against.  Of course the Fujipoly pads are the apex of highway robbery prices for the tiny little square you get...
They seem to be hard just like Odyssey pads which would make them not ideal on the front side of an Ampere video card since you need good compression on that side to not interfere with Chip Die-cold plate pressure.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 4, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I've been suspended from a thread before, so while I would love to; I would not dare...


You need to stay cool under pressure, dont fan the heat...


yeah i'm outta puns now

Edit: "Go drink some coolant" sounds like a threat lol

And Maenad also went by Jill on the forums for a while, too - with the same avatar. could be where you picked that up


----------



## Shrek (Dec 4, 2021)

Maenad said:


> Yo, I'm a he, not a she



Honest mistake given your avatar.


----------



## Kissamies (Dec 5, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Honest mistake given your avatar.


I love Jill Valentine and I've been a Resident Evil fan since the 90s.


----------



## looniam (Dec 5, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> Honest mistake given your avatar.


woof! woof! ruff ruff, bow wow!


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 6, 2021)

So in my ASUS G513QY laptop case, 
you guys saying thin layer on dies of gpu/cpu and chamber side enough, no dots or lines needed on top?


----------



## Mussels (Dec 6, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> So in my ASUS G513QY laptop case,
> you guys saying thin layer on dies of gpu/cpu and chamber side enough, no dots or lines needed on top?


dots and blobs and so on are for when you have uneven surfaces, and you want the pressure to spread the paste

Low pressure, flat environments? spread that shit yourself


----------



## Bride (Dec 6, 2021)

I just did a quick test between on my HD6850, room temp around 20 degrees, PC case closed, with

Arctic MX-5 (screenshot Gfx009)



and
another unknown Chinese 15W thermal paste (screenshot Gfx008)



looks not a big difference


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 6, 2021)

Bride said:


> I just did a quick test between on my HD6850, room temp around 20 degrees, PC case closed, with
> 
> Arctic MX-5 (screenshot Gfx009)
> 
> ...



Actually Chinese wins....what is the brand of Chinese?


----------



## Bride (Dec 6, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> Actually Chinese wins....what is the brand of Chinese?


well, are both made in China , but I would like to run more tests... this one is named DHS, 15W on paper... Now i just ordered a 18W, but not sure about the results...
Arctic looks a little bit more sticky and difficult to apply on the surfaces, but not a big deal.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 6, 2021)

Bride said:


> I just did a quick test between on my HD6850, room temp around 20 degrees, PC case closed, with
> 
> Arctic MX-5 (screenshot Gfx009)
> 
> ...


Yeah, try a CPU benchmark for starters, not a GFX benchmark. Also lets see the products you're testing and the application of the TIM on the surfaces.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 6, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I don't know where this graph came from, but it does not agree with information found elsewhere about the performance of TFX. This graph is rubbish and nonsense until properly cited. That said...
> 
> 
> ...this should work and SYY should provide reasonable performance for your system. Keep in mind that thermal paste is not a magic wonder solution that will solve all your cooling problems. It's just a tool to help make thermal transfer more efficient. The limiting factor for your desired temps is the cooling system employed in that laptop. If that heatsink/fan setup can't drop your temps to levels you desire, you're only realistic solution is to downclock the CPU/GPU so that they don't create as much heat.



This graph is from a reviews/lab site:
https://albestech.com/migliore-pasta-termica-2021/

You can read (with translator) whole work they done to test each paste.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 6, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> This graph is from a reviews/lab site:
> https://albestech.com/migliore-pasta-termica-2021/
> 
> You can read (with translator) whole work they done to test each paste.


Actually, I can read Italian well enough to follow along. I question the validity of those conclusions as they are in conflict with testing done elsewhere.

However, even if we assume that the results shown there are acceptable, the fact remains that the differences between the top 20 performers are within 4C of each other. As such, the price/performance ratio is clearly a defining factor. TFX is VERY expensive compared to most of the rest. The 1C difference is not enough to justify the 800% jump in cost per gram.

If you got your SYY for a good price, then you're in for a good run at a solid value.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 6, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Actually, I can read Italian well enough to follow along. I question the validity of those conclusions as they are in conflict with testing done elsewhere.
> 
> However, even if we assume that the results shown there are acceptable, the fact remains that the differences between the top 20 performers are within 4C of each other. As such, the price/performance ratio is clearly a defining factor. TFX is VERY expensive compared to most of the rest. The 1C difference is not enough to justify the 800% jump in cost per gram.
> 
> If you got your SYY for a good price, then you're in for a good run at a solid value.



Sorry for too much information, but maybe this will help you guide me bit better, maybe not...

As earlier mentioned, laptop G513QY from asus, I currently use Gelid GC Extreme and I want try improve temps, would SYY be a good choice to replace gelid gc extrene with? I bought SYY should arrive in 2 weeks to me from US.   As backup also bought with SYY, tube of Iceberg Thermal Plus. I really need an opinion here, my laptop barely 2 months old and I had paid computer lab and re-pasted like 7  times already (5-6 myself, trying diff pasting, wasting pastes... like idiot), this time I want make sure I use the right thing so I dont need waste time and money again for next 1-2 years with another repasting.  SYY is really going to be better choice and work well? or should I use ICEBERG OR (redo again with) GC Extreme again?

Further on the story, 3 weeks ago I repasted myself using GC Extreme, and dropped temps a bit, as gpu hotspot no longer went 103c and maxed around 95-97c.... then 2 weeks ago i decided take my gc extreme to professional laptops lab, pay them to repaste, see maybe they do better job than me, NO -  Now extra few temps on CPU/GPU... so I wait for SYY and iceberg arrive in 2 weeks from US and planning do the best job I can this time so it last for 1-2 years before I need think about repasting again...

Additionally, this time with SYY I am planning also to use washers to improve the mount pressure, similar to how this guy did:

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/ASUSROG/comments/qz5snd

So bottom line:
GC Extreme (try again, this time with washers?)
SYY (with or without washers?)
ICEBERG Thermal Plus (with/without washers?)
ThermalRight KingSilver LM (I still have left, dont want use LM, i also removed the LM barriers on both dies...as I dont plan use LM on this laptop again)

I was reading that SYY good for laptops and almost par with TFX, which is why I bought SYY and not TFX..... I live outside US and it takes 2-3 weeks for each order to arrive. Hence why I wait for SYY and Iceberg... I do have some GC Extreme left in extra tube as I bought 3 of them initially thinking I might screw up and need backup (which is what happened lol with me and lab etc..).

Please dont slap me for all this repasting saga, I was bit overwhelmed fixing the temps...  fact to mention, stock from ASUS was LM  and damn, temps were high, 101-102c gpu hotspot and cpu was around similar highs, when I tried repaste with new LM from ThermalRight LM didn't work well again, 103c hotspot gpu.... then I switched to GC Extreme (my own pasting before going to lab) and hotspot of gpu could be dropped to 95-97c peak zone, so better...than lab pasting (i suspect he didnt put enough or something, or maybe left some little bumps ..not sure) and  hotspot gpu temps as high as 99c and cpu throttling at 95-96.5c.

Thanks!


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 6, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> Sorry for too much information, but maybe this will help you guide me bit better, maybe not...
> 
> As earlier mentioned, laptop G513QY from asus, I currently use Gelid GC Extreme and I want try improve temps, would SYY be a good choice to replace gelid gc extrene with? I bought SYY should arrive in 2 weeks to me from US.   As backup also bought with SYY, tube of Iceberg Thermal Plus. I really need an opinion here, my laptop barely 2 months old and I had paid computer lab and re-pasted like 7  times already (5-6 myself, trying diff pasting, wasting pastes... like idiot), this time I want make sure I use the right thing so I dont need waste time and money again for next 1-2 years with another repasting.  SYY is really going to be better choice and work well? or should I use ICEBERG OR (redo again with) GC Extreme again?
> 
> ...


SYY is a good performer. You'll have a good experience with it. I'm not what effect(if any) using washers to increase mounting pressure will have. You shouldn't really need to do so in a laptop.

The reality is that you should be able to spread the SYY across the die and the heatsink and get good heat conduction. How much cooling effect that grants will depend greatly on the heatsink & fans being employed to cool the system. If the system is efficient and works well, then SYY will make it all the better. If it's not, SYY will still improve the situation but you will still have high temps.

You stated earlier that you have the following system;








						ROG Strix G15 Advantage Edition G513 | 2021 ROG Strix G15 Advantage Edition | Gaming Laptops｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
					





					rog.asus.com
				











						ROG Strix G15 Advantage Edition G513 | 2021 ROG Strix G15 Advantage Edition | Gaming Laptops｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
					





					rog.asus.com
				




That system is suppose to have solid cooling so the SYY TIM should be of benefit. You may need to adjust up the fan speed in the UEFI profile to avoid high temp hot-spots, but you should be able to get the desired affect of lowering over-all temps.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 6, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> SYY is a good performer. You'll have a good experience with it. I'm not what effect(if any) using washers to increase mounting pressure will have. You shouldn't really need to do so in a laptop.
> 
> The reality is that you should be able to spread the SYY across the die and the heatsink and get good heat conduction. How much cooling effect that grants will depend greatly on the heatsink & fans being employed to cool the system. If the system is efficient and works well, then SYY will make it all the better. If it's not, SYY will still improve the situation but you will still have high temps.
> 
> ...



So SYY will improve against GC Extreme, and better than ICEBERG Thermal Plus option, correct? if so, thats good to hear.
Fans already set here to kick 100% so my temps are mentioned with fans around 7000 RPM.... its their 100% (6900 RPM).

Good photos of motherboard/chamber can be found here:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1467559682378244102

P.S. Also bought 89$ GT500 cooling pad, to ensure external cooling is best possible, should arrive from US in approx a week, so this will accommodate the good pasting.


----------



## Bride (Dec 7, 2021)

here we are!
another quick comparison between 

Arctic MX-5 and DHAS-15




8086K at 5.3GHz and 1.48v (I know already is too high)
water-cooling loop
PC case open
room temp 20 degrees

Cinebench >20 minutes

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arctic MX-5









------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DHAS-15









------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CPU Package Temperature

Arctic MX-5 ... min 31 avg 78 max 86

DHAS-15 ........ min 30 avg 80 max 86


There are problems about sensors with this Aourus z370 so in the last HWInfo screenshot vcore value is missing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONCLUSIONS

About viscosity, for sure MX-5 is more sticky and difficult to apply on the CPU's surface.
About thermals, MX-5 looks a little better than DHAS-15.
About durability, probably due the viscosity, MX-5 can be replaced less frequently than DHAS-15, but it depends from a lot of factors as for example the cooling system and ambient temps.
About retail price, I paid 8g of MX-5 around 79 yuan (12.40USD) and 8g of DHAS-15 around 50 yuan (7.80USD)

I like to overclock and modify CPUs and GPUs, so ideally speaking I would like to have the best thermal paste on the market (not considering liquid metal solutions), but I also love to find good compromises quality price ratio. So, in this particular case, the price difference is not so relevant if we consider the results, but looking in the long term, probably MX-5 looks a good deal.


See you guys
Bride


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 7, 2021)

Bride said:


> here we are!
> another quick comparison between
> 
> Arctic MX-5 and DHAS-15
> ...



Would love to see SYY vs TFX/GC Extreme/MX5/IceBerg Thermal Plus


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 7, 2021)

I ordered some with my new AIO watercooler about 2 weeks ago.

First impressions: not good.

Positive:
+ Heat transfer is great, as it has been for years with my beloved MX-4.
Negative:
- It's too sticky to apply, sort of like chewing gum. A 2-second blob with the MX-4 is more like a 2-minute struggle with the MX-5.
Extra negative:
-- The tube I've got was sort of separated. At first try, some transparent watery stuff came out, so I had to clean my CPU again, and waste half of the tube on a paper towel to get to the proper stuff. For a new product that's rated for 8 years, this is just plain unacceptable. 

All in all, this gooey blue chewing gum sticks to anything and everything, but I'll stick to the MX-4 in the future.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 7, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I ordered some with my new AIO watercooler about 2 weeks ago.
> 
> First impressions: not good.
> 
> ...


Did you confirm yours wasnt a fake? That seperation should not have happened with a product so new


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 7, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Did you confirm yours wasnt a fake? That seperation should not have happened with a product so new


That's what I thought too.

I ordered it from one of the UK's largest stores (scan.co.uk). Is there another way I can know it's not fake? I may have got a faulty batch, but still...


----------



## Bride (Dec 7, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I ordered some with my new AIO watercooler about 2 weeks ago.
> 
> First impressions: not good.
> 
> ...


 exactly the same experience. I bought it from the official Arctic online store in China. So it should be not a fake in my case. I even tried all the QR codes and looks ok.


----------



## Bride (Dec 7, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> Would love to see SYY vs TFX/GC Extreme/MX5/IceBerg Thermal Plus



I have a syringe of GC Extreme, I could try in the next days. Whatever I am not impressed by this product, expensive respect the competitors, with same performances


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 7, 2021)

Bride said:


> here we are!
> another quick comparison between
> 
> Arctic MX-5 and DHAS-15
> ...


Nice level of detail! I've got to say, that DHAS15 looks like a solid performer. MX-5 beat it out but not by much. And that price, good value there!


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 7, 2021)

SYY better than MX5 (for laptops) right ?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 7, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> SYY better than MX5 (for laptops) right ?


Most benchmarks show SYY and MX-5 trading blows. You'll be happy with it.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 7, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> All in all, this gooey blue chewing gum sticks to anything and everything



I'm wondering if that is actually a good thing (for longevity) and might suggest an application technique that uses blobs and not spreading.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Most benchmarks show SYY and MX-5 trading blows. You'll be happy with it.


How SYY longevity lets say compared go gelid gc?

BTW,  warming the tube in boil water before I squeeze it to apply, right?

Boiling the paste / warming it, won't damage it or make it more pumpout-able?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 7, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> How SYY longevity lets say compared go gelid gc?


No solid data on that one. However, the chemistry of most TIMs lends to long-term viability. Example, once applied a TIM will last for years without any need for replacement.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> No solid data on that one. However, the chemistry of most TIMs lends to long-term viability. Example, once applied a TIM will last for years without any need for replacement.



Next doubt..

Warming the tube in boil water before I squeeze it to apply, right?

Boiling the paste / warming it, won't damage it or make it more pumpout-able?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 7, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> Boiling the paste / warming it, won't damage it or make it more pumpout-able?


No. Warming it up will do nothing that it will not experience while applied to the CPU. It'll be fine.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 7, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> No. Warming it up will do nothing that it will not experience while applied to the CPU. It'll be fine.



So prepare boiling water, put the tube inside for how long before use?


----------



## freeagent (Dec 7, 2021)

SYY is thicker, but you don’t need to boil it. It’s not like you are trying to squeeze out cheese 

It’s spreads nicely imo. You should spread it yourself rather than let the mating action do the spreading for you  

Edit:

And there is such a thing as too much, so you might have to mount up a couple of times to get a feel for it..


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 7, 2021)

freeagent said:


> SYY is thicker, but you don’t need to boil it. It’s not like you are trying to squeeze out cheese
> 
> It’s spreads nicely imo. You should spread it yourself rather than let the mating action do the spreading for you
> 
> ...



Good to hear that spreads nicely,  I read multiple comments online that SYY fits laptops well too, but one guy on reddit said he was unlucky on his GE66 laptop SYY pumped out he had to change to TFX. Maybe SYY didn't fit his cooler or he got defective from factory SYY or maybe something else like didn't clean old paste good enough?

My laptop is ASUS G513QY AE.

Now there is too much, there is too less.... to be on safe side, can I make thin layer on dies and thin layer on chamber side and add little DOT in middle of each?

*Also,*

I think to use these type of custom washer (i could not find better washers locally here), what you say about this washer to tighten up the mount pressure:


http://imgur.com/gPJrXgj


Basically I grab the idea from this guy:

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/ASUSROG/comments/qz5snd


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 7, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I'm wondering if that is actually a good thing (for longevity) and might suggest an application technique that uses blobs and not spreading.


I've never spread my thermal paste - the blob method has worked since the beginning of history just fine. Although, I can't seem to put a proper blob on the CPU with this sticky thing. It somehow seems to stick to the syringe more than it sticks to the CPU.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 7, 2021)

Interesting... I wonder if Teflon syringe tips exist.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Dec 7, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I've never spread my thermal paste - the blob method has worked since the beginning of history just fine. Although, I can't seem to put a proper blob on the CPU with this sticky thing. It somehow seems to stick to the syringe more than it sticks to the CPU.



One thing I like about the spread method is that you're not guessing at the amount needed to reach the entire IHS surface (assuming you have an IHS).  However, I still usually blob because it takes less time and can take less paste.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 7, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> So prepare boiling water, put the tube inside for how long before use?


Not boiling water. Just get a bowl of hot water from the faucet and let the TIM sit in the water for a few minutes to warm it up. No need for extremes.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 7, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> Now there is too much, there is too less.... to be on safe side, can I make thin layer on dies and thin layer on chamber side and add little DOT in middle of each?


I wouldn't..


----------



## Shrek (Dec 7, 2021)

With the really sticky thermal grease is it hard to separate the heatsink and chip?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 8, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> With the really sticky thermal grease is it hard to separate the heatsink and chip?


Not if you gently twist the heatsink before you pull it off.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 8, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not if you gently twist the heatsink before you pull it off.


Heat and twiiiiist!


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 8, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not if you gently twist the heatsink before you pull it off.



Yes, with K5 Pro on ASUS G513QY laptop, taking chamber away was almost impossible, you literally saw how motherboard pushes/bumps up with the chamber, twisting did the job... even PC lab guy who repasted for me, didnt figure twisting, he tried pull it up without success, until I twisted it for him.



lexluthermiester said:


> Not boiling water. Just get a bowl of hot water from the faucet and let the TIM sit in the water for a few minutes to warm it up. No need for extremes.



Got it, thanks!


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 13, 2021)

One thing have tiny bothering my mind, like two users on reddit reported their SYY dried up 2-3 weeks later and stopped performing, they have as I remember DELL laptops, same time as other feedbacks including yours/this forum say SYY par with TFX quality/performance and wont dry fast. Should be worried or those are individual cases or possibly bad batch of SYY?

My barely 3 month old laptop had like 7-8 repastings (as I had to figure out why GPU hotspot was 103c at peak...and final two repastings as you know... first I did myself which had interesting results but then i thought computer lab would have better results, paid them...sadly they had worst results than me with same gelid paste which I used and brought to them to use for my repasting), so upcoming repaste when syy and iceberg arrive from amazin in about a week, I want make sure I do it as best as I can, so I can avoid another repaste at least for a year.

P.S. for VRAM and VRM I use K5 PRO i bought one more 20 grams K5 Pro to make sure I have enough refiller when I do the dies with SYY.

In 1-2 weeks I should get both SYY and Iceberg Thermal FUZEIce Plus  both on its way from US.

So hence I trying gather best I can decisions and feedback until the pastes arriving...


----------



## Space Lynx (Dec 13, 2021)

I am sticking with my Noctua NT-H2, I trust them as a company, and even if it performs less than something else I don't care. When I needed a spare part, I reached out to Noctua and they sent me the little fan clip all the way from Austria literally within a 72 hour business time frame. They have my business and my respect for life.


----------



## Falkentyne (Dec 13, 2021)

I wonder how many times this guy is going to keep asking the exact same question in multiple threads/posts/forums over and over...Yikes...
Just make some freaking Galinstan for crying out loud...


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 13, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> I wonder how many times this guy is going to keep asking the exact same question in multiple threads/posts/forums over and over...Yikes...
> Just make some freaking Galinstan for crying out loud...



Persistent actions lead to dedicated results.

But no worries I wont post this same question/s again.


----------



## maxfly (Dec 13, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> Persistent actions lead to dedicated results.
> 
> But no worries I wont post this same question/s again.


Test your theories and repost the results.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 13, 2021)

maxfly said:


> Test your theories and repost the results.



You will get it from me for all the posts I made...

1. Temps before using 2-3 benchmarks
2. Temps after repasting day 1
3. Temps after repasting day 3


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 13, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> I wonder how many times this guy is going to keep asking the exact same question in multiple threads/posts/forums over and over...Yikes...
> Just make some freaking Galinstan for crying out loud...


There was no need for that. How about you be nice...



ryzenmaster said:


> You will get it from me for all the posts I made...
> 
> 1. Temps before using 2-3 benchmarks
> 2. Temps after repasting day 1
> 3. Temps after repasting day 3


Do another set of tests after 30 days so we can see if the rumors about SYY drying out have any merit.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 13, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> Just make some freaking Galinstan for crying out loud...



As I understand it, Galinstan does not have a great thermal conductivity.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 14, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> As I understand it, Galinstan does not have a great thermal conductivity.


Depends on the formulation. It can be fiddly. But some formulations work very well as a thermal conductor.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 14, 2021)

Is GD900 as good as MX-4?

Best thermal paste for laptop: Arctic MX-4, Zalman ZM-STG2, Noctua NT-H1, GD900 - Bing video


----------



## Falkentyne (Dec 14, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> There was no need for that. How about you be nice...
> 
> 
> Do another set of tests after 30 days so we can see if the rumors about SYY drying out have any merit.


How about you tell HIM to be nice to me?
I know what Asperger's syndrome does to people.  I used to go through this stuff as a kid when I used to do it myself.  Constantly repeating myself asking the same questions over and over because what anyone "told me" as an answer was either "unbelievable" or "too good to be true.".  Like I needed enough confirmation until I exhausted myself.
No offense man, but I really think you should back off.  I value my privacy and I don't like my inboxese (Yes, PRIVATE MESSAGES) being SPAMMED by someone asking me the same question.  Have a little honor, will you?

if you keep personally attacking me (as you've done several times over the last year), you go on the block list.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 14, 2021)

Falkentyne said:


> How about you tell HIM to be nice to me?
> I know what Asperger's syndrome does to people.  I used to go through this stuff as a kid when I used to do it myself.  Constantly repeating myself asking the same questions over and over because what anyone "told me" as an answer was either "unbelievable" or "too good to be true.".  Like I needed enough confirmation until I exhausted myself.
> No offense man, but I really think you should back off.  I value my privacy and I don't like my inboxese (Yes, PRIVATE MESSAGES) being SPAMMED by someone asking me the same question.  Have a little honor, will you?
> 
> if you keep personally attacking me (as you've done several times over the last year), you go on the block list.


If theres a problem, report the post or inbox. Dont drag it out on the forums.
This applies to everyone


----------



## Morgoth (Dec 14, 2021)

i use artix mx-5 on my vega 56 waterblok got a large blob on it to fill the gap.. works prety well so far.


----------



## Space Lynx (Dec 14, 2021)

Morgoth said:


> i use artix mx-5 on my vega 56 waterblok got a large blob on it to fill the gap.. works prety well so far.



I like your name!  'Fueled by Sapphire'... also my favorite brand. If things ever get to normal MSRP in a couple years I will probably go back to them.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 14, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> *Do another set of tests after 30 days so we can see if the rumors about SYY drying out have any merit.*



Sounds like a plan, will do before, after and in 30 days.

By the way, I talked to SYY store support, and they said:

"Previously, in order to ensure the thermal conductivity of the product, we used thicker raw materials than other products, but we received some feedback that it was difficult to apply. Now that we have improved the raw materials, it will be easier to apply than before.    Our products are stored in vacuum tubes, and a very small part of them will become dry due to the air entering. In any case, you can contact us, we will refund you and reissue new products, you can buy with confidence.  Our new formula products have all arrived at the Amazon warehouse, and are delivered by Amazon, cannot decide which one they deliver."

So I hope I get the new formula, sounds like it is easier to spread lol.

Thank you.


----------



## Bride (Dec 14, 2021)

MX-5 looks no bad, room temp on 19 degrees, with a 360 AIO, case closed


----------



## Morgoth (Dec 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I like your name!  'Fueled by Sapphire'... also my favorite brand. If things ever get to normal MSRP in a couple years I will probably go back to them.


only retail amd brand i ever buy since 1950 pro release not nothing any thing els ever again


----------



## freeagent (Dec 14, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> So I hope I get the new formula, sounds like it is easier to spread lol.


You should get the new formula. I had some really thick stuff from them, I have gone through a few tubes now and it applies much nicer. Good paste. Might not be the bestest, but for the price it is the bestest (maybe)


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 14, 2021)

freeagent said:


> You should get the new formula. I had some really thick stuff from them, I have gone through a few tubes now and it applies much nicer. Good paste. Might not be the bestest, but for the price it is the bestest (maybe)



Well I hope I get new formula in few days arrive will figure out. Any idea how I understand its a new one? Any package difference from old formula?

SYY support told me if I get old formula and I don't like it for a good reason, they will send me new formula replacement.

BTW any performance, Life, pumpout / dry out difference between old and new?


----------



## freeagent (Dec 14, 2021)

No pumpout, package looks the same iirc. It will be a little thicker than regular paste, but not overly, and not like my tube of TFX was, that was seriously thick. But it worked great. TFX is my fave, but SYY at its price is pretty tough to beat imo.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 14, 2021)

freeagent said:


> No pumpout, package looks the same iirc. It will be a little thicker than regular paste, but not overly, and not like my tube of TFX was, that was seriously thick. But it worked great. TFX is my fave, but SYY at its price is pretty tough to beat imo.



Excited to see Temps/scores on ryzen 5900Hx and rx6800m after moving from gelid gc extreme to SYY


----------



## freeagent (Dec 14, 2021)

Hopefully it’s more than half a c


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 14, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Hopefully it’s more than half a c



Well guy on notebook forum tested 1 vs 1 gelid vs syy, had like 4-6c on syy benefit. Seems as Gelid is very good but not as good for laptops. SYY's viscosity people suggest makes it a better choice for laptops. I hope I will be able to snag some better temps with it versus gelid.... 

Also, I think last repaste didn't gone too well at the LAB,  my own pasting with Gelid weeks before I gave the LAB  a try, done better, at least on GPU side.
So when I will repaste SYY, will do my best to do it as right as possible, and also will heat the paste tube before applying in hot water.

Source:


http://imgur.com/BN1SHYg




freeagent said:


> Hopefully it’s more than half a c



@freeagent one more question if I may, between the new (more runny) and old (less runny) SYY Formula, besides the ease of apply,  the new one, doesn't become less of a good for laptops due to being more runny? or after hours/days it ends up being same shape and viscosity as the old one and stick well in place?

Thanks!


----------



## Space Lynx (Dec 25, 2021)

In brief:  It was exciting when this paste came out and I had it ordered practically day 1, that type of excitement gets rarer and rarer the older we get, and I still cherish that giddiness. I know a lot of you don't, perhaps never did, paste is paste. That thrill of the latest tech, of getting the most out of your system, tweaking, testing, experimenting, we have all been there, we have enjoyed it, we have hated it, but most of all I think we all recognize that it is part of a deeper experience of the human condition. It's the same thing the original explorers of the ocean felt in their wooden ships, its the same thing with the James Webb Space Telescope launching tomorrow, this constant pursuit of pursuing and pushing the limits of optimal efficacy to allow a deeper awareness of our existence to unfold...

It doesn't really matter if I prefer my MX-4, or another paste, that's not what the 'feeling' this thread was created out of, and above all, that is the overall message I hope people understand. Pursue that feeling, my greatest fear is the day, everything becomes a routine, and the only passion I have left is the next meal... 

Merry Christmas to those of you who kept this thread alive and contributed to it. It now has 96k views and 36 pages long... most threads I make are in the range of 500-2000 range in views... so these numbers are just mind blowing to me, especially since its something I never personally followed up on, if a topic was to get this many views, and I had to place a bet on which of my topics would get that... it would have been my Arctic Laptop Modification project, cause well it was a hell of a lot of fun for me personally... lol  (though I have a deep hatred for laptop manufactures not just adding extra weight to laptops that are high end gaming ones, they aren't meant to be portable if they have a high end gpu imo, they are meant to be desktop replacements and plugged in on the go/easier mobility than a full desktop). A lot of us have that use case for them but the market doesn't seem to care, and instead prefers overheating, so frankensteining the hell out of it was a lot of fun for me, someday my ultimate project is going to be to create a mini ITX setup in a small briefcase, with a 23.8" 1080p high refresh screen as the monitor, so that all you have to do is sit the brief case down, and the lid opens up to the screen, and a custom keyboard folds down, a hole pre-routed for the mouse, etc. but anyone seeing me carrying it will think its just a traditional businessman briefcase, lol

Anyways, no other thread even comes within a fraction of this ones view count that I have made, so tangent aside, thank you all!  I'd bet money someone at Arctic has seen this thread btw, lol

this thread is dead now, no need to resurrect it, just wanted to share it below: 








						Arctic Passive Cooling Laptop Modification
					

so. I am getting awfully sick and tired of seeing my cpu and gtx 1070 reach 95 celsius in gaming (it needs re-pasted I think, but I can't do a re-paste cause the screws are stripped too bad, but even with re-paste it would still be doing 80ish)  I was thinking. these new fanless coolers from...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Bride (Dec 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> In brief:  It was exciting when this paste came out and I had it ordered practically day 1, that type of excitement gets rarer and rarer the older we get, and I still cherish that giddiness. I know a lot of you don't, perhaps never did, paste is paste. That thrill of the latest tech, of getting the most out of your system, tweaking, testing, experimenting, we have all been there, we have enjoyed it, we have hated it, but most of all I think we all recognize that it is part of a deeper experience of the human condition. It's the same thing the original explorers of the ocean felt in their wooden ships, its the same thing with the James Webb Space Telescope launching tomorrow, this constant pursuit of pursuing and pushing the limits of optimal efficacy to allow a deeper awareness of our existence to unfold...
> 
> It doesn't really matter if I prefer my MX-4, or another paste, that's not what the 'feeling' this thread was created out of, and above all, that is the overall message I hope people understand. Pursue that feeling, my greatest fear is the day, everything becomes a routine, and the only passion I have left is the next meal...
> 
> ...



Merry Christmas to everyone, but pls keep this topic for comparisons with MX-5.... to talk about Gelid or SYY there are specific posts


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 28, 2021)

--> Thanks for the long response....

TimeSpy + Custom MPT + GT500 Max Speed + AMD Control Panel custom voltage and min/max core speeds:


http://imgur.com/ZwM9SEc

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/69946070

Washers + Repaste (For gpu larger die I used SYY Iceberg fuzeice Plus for CPU):
Before repasting and washers CPU was going 95-97c even with GT500 Max speed.

Now CPU peaking around 91-91.5c with GT500 and going to its usual 95-96c max without GT500. Which is normal, multiple G513QY units reported on discord having same temps at load, but the IMPORTANT change, that before repasting, with EVEN with GT500 cpu was still kicking 95-97c lol and now its not (timespy/firestrike). In things that push the CPU to the max like CB23,  still seeing 95C (as I understand other units with LM does see 95c as well) but now my scores higher, so surely less throttle after repasting+washers mod 

When I opened the cooling chamber, Gelid GC Extreme was kinda vaporized, wattery drops on die....so probably not a great fit OR i had a bad Gelid defected......or something... took photos:

https://media.discordapp.net/attach...24/924662401922662410/IMG_20211225_195530.jpg

https://media.discordapp.net/attach...24/924662433874870272/IMG_20211225_195515.jpg

***  white thing is K5 pro , pretty nice how it  kept its form and shape, as "thermal pads".   You should NOT use K5 pro if you need more than 1mm though.

Especially on chamber side, you can see it, I touched the Gelid, it really felt like vaporized water.....

Now with SYY and Iceberg Plus, I feel more confident 
In future when time comes to repaste again, I can determine which one of the two saved better its form and shape, and use the better one to repaste both dies.

For VRM and VRAM, since this laptop has around 0.5-1.0mm  K5 pro is a good fit for me,  and since I already had K5 pro on vram and vrm, all I did is recollect K5 Pro and re-apply again  + use some extra K5 pro to fill up a bit, as when you recollect you still lose some.  P.S. K5 PRO lab officially told me, that K5 pro  can be recollected  and re-applied.

Timespy BEFORE repasting + GT500 Max + Ryzen Balanced Profile:


http://imgur.com/HBLdDDT

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/69908254

TimeSpy BEFORE repasting + GT500 Max + ASUS Power Profile:


http://imgur.com/Zg7DdnA

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/69908465

CB23 BEFORE repasting + GT500 Max +  ASUS Power Profile:


http://imgur.com/1RZk9OO


Photos during repasting work (k5 pro collected and re-applied plus bit of extra new k5 pro drops on it, for vrm and vram):
https://media.discordapp.net/attach...81/924590225060134952/IMG_20211225_220004.png

After repasting:
TimeSpy + Custom MPT + GT500 Max Speed + AMD Control Panel custom voltage and min/max core speeds:


http://imgur.com/ZwM9SEc

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/69946070

As mentioned in CPU intense like BF2042 I am hitting peaks at 95c but its not sticking there it goes below it for CPU and CB23 sticks to 95c, but thats normal for R9 5900HX laptops in this model. The big issue that before this repaste work,  even if I dropped CPU  STP to 60's watt zone, even then it would go and stick to 95c in load, and with GT500 max speed, it won't bother go below 95c lol now it does in gaming/3dmark go below 95c.

*Generally in games, even in COD Vanguard, CPU does hit 95-96c and floating around 94-96c zone. With GT500 at max speed, CPU below 90c at most cases, while before repasting, even with GT500 would go right away to 95-97c and stay in this range..... Am I seeing my GPU hotspot going 98-99c in 3dmark or games as it did before repasting and washers mod? no, it doesnt occur anymore  it can go around 94-95c gpu hotspot zone but not 98-99c as before.*


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 28, 2021)

ryzenmaster said:


> When I opened the cooling chamber, Gelid GC Extreme was kinda vaporized, wattery drops on die....so probably not a great fit OR i had a bad Gelid defected......or something... took photos:
> 
> https://media.discordapp.net/attach...24/924662401922662410/IMG_20211225_195530.jpg
> 
> https://media.discordapp.net/attach...24/924662433874870272/IMG_20211225_195515.jpg


From those photos, it seems clear that the base of the heatplate was making contact with the GPU, but not the CPU. You need to find the reason for the block not resting flush on the die. Something is likely blocking it. Likely all the gunk all over the board.


----------



## ryzenmaster (Dec 29, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> New to me
> Amazon.com: Coollaboratory Liquid MetalPad 3xCPU + Cleaning kit (4260157580060) : Electronics
> 
> Instructions: How to use "Coollaboratory Liquid Pro"
> ...



If going the pad route for CPU/GPU, which one you would suggest:



			Amazon.com
		




			Amazon.com
		




			Amazon.com
		


For ASUS G513QY Laptop with Ryzen 9 5900HX / RX6800M GPU, I suspect the chamber is not flat even on CPU's side as paste performance degrades faster on CPU than on GPU, and Pad could be the answer to uneven chamber surface if I understand it right.


Your feedback is welcomed,

Thanks!


----------



## Bride (Dec 29, 2021)

Guys this is MX5 thread, not Gelid or SYY... you can use this








						The Official Thermal Interface Material thread
					

No need for another single thread, let's use this for questions and suggestions. :)




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 29, 2021)

Yeah, we really should move things over to that thread if we going to discuss thermal compound in general.


----------



## Shrek (Dec 29, 2021)

Bride said:


> Guys this is MX5 thread, not Gelid or SYY... you can use this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And therein lies the dilemma, or so it seems to me; how can one discuss MX-5 without discussing competitors?

Even a thermal paste thread invites a comparison to thermal pads; perhaps a 'Thermal Interface Material' thread would cover it all.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 29, 2021)

The point is that this is a thread which was about MX-5 but it's run it's course. Discussion lately has been about other TIMs however. Therefore, we should move discussion over to the other thread where it's a general discussion thread.


----------



## Bride (Jan 5, 2022)

Andy Shiekh said:


> And therein lies the dilemma, or so it seems to me; how can one discuss MX-5 without discussing competitors?
> 
> Even a thermal paste thread invites a comparison to thermal pads; perhaps a 'Thermal Interface Material' thread would cover it all.



well, in the last replies the discussion was focused on Gelid and SYY, without mentioning MX5 at all... so in this case better to share experiences in the related post, that's all


----------



## Shrek (Jan 5, 2022)

I didn't mean to say it is wrong, but staying strictly on topic can sometimes have disadvantages, as can going way off topic.


----------



## Boombastik (Jan 6, 2022)

Arctic for the mx-5 created some faulty batches
-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PBEG0fKxOs

read the comments below video.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 6, 2022)

Boombastik said:


> mx-5 created some faulty batches
> -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PBEG0fKxOs
> 
> read the comments below video.
> View attachment 231336




holy **** nice find lol  

that is wild you stumbled across official Arctic comments in youtube, I didn't even know they did that...


----------



## Mussels (Jan 19, 2022)

MX5 found to have a known bad batch

ARCTIC Identifies Bad Batch of MX-5 TIM in the Market, Offers Free Replacements | TechPowerUp Forums


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 19, 2022)

Mussels said:


> MX5 found to have a known bad batch
> 
> ARCTIC Identifies Bad Batch of MX-5 TIM in the Market, Offers Free Replacements | TechPowerUp Forums


This could explain a lot.


----------



## Bride (Feb 3, 2022)

thanks guys, I was using MX5 on both CPU and GPU... problems in terms of temperatures and stability. Thanks again


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 3, 2022)

Bride said:


> thanks guys, I was using MX5 on both CPU and GPU... problems in terms of temperatures and stability. Thanks again


Get in touch with Arctic Cooling and get a replacement! Try not to be to hard on them, mistakes happen, no company is perfect. However, they're making right with the public and that speaks volumes.


----------



## Bride (Feb 3, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Get in touch with Arctic Cooling and get a replacement! Try not to be to hard on them, mistakes happen, no company is perfect. However, they're making right with the public and that speaks volumes.



In these days I had troubles tuning up my PC, with random crashes. So after the MX5 surprise, I decided to replace the thermal paste... here how I found the situation:





Obviously disappointed, but as someone said, it can happen... should not, with big producers, but it can happen... Here in China, we are during the Spring festival holidays, but the seller replied to me that I can return it, receiving a full refund, then I will see if buy it again.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 3, 2022)

Bride said:


> In these days I had troubles tuning up my PC, with random crashes. So after the MX5 surprise, I decided to replace the thermal paste... here how I found the situation:
> 
> View attachment 235102
> View attachment 235103
> ...


What did the heatsink look like?


----------



## Bride (Feb 3, 2022)

The water block it was completely clean. Obviously it was not a contact problem between CPU and water block


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 3, 2022)

Bride said:


> The water block it was completely clean. Obviously it was not a contact problem between CPU and water block


Out of interest, I took a look at my application of MX-5 on one of my systems and it looks fine. I feel bad for you, but at least you can get a replacement at no or little cost.


----------



## Space Lynx (Feb 3, 2022)

Bride said:


> In these days I had troubles tuning up my PC, with random crashes. So after the MX5 surprise, I decided to replace the thermal paste... here how I found the situation:
> 
> View attachment 235102
> View attachment 235103
> ...



sorry that happened to!  yeah make sure to get your free replacement Arctic announced awhile back.


----------



## Bride (Feb 3, 2022)

I just tried with another thermal paste, same waterblock bracket and screws pressure... Passed OCCT, Cinebench, AIDA... short stress tests. Something that with this batch MX5, was not happening. I really hope to try soon a new batch of it. For you guys, how's going on the experience with MX5?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 3, 2022)

Bride said:


> For you guys, how's going on the experience with MX5?


Exceptional. In my experience, MX-5 has been the best TIM for the money I've tried. Only KPx performs better and then only by a few degrees C.


----------



## Borc (Feb 13, 2022)

Bride said:


> I just tried with another thermal paste, same waterblock bracket and screws pressure... Passed OCCT, Cinebench, AIDA... short stress tests. Something that with this batch MX5, was not happening. I really hope to try soon a new batch of it. For you guys, how's going on the experience with MX5?




Depends on your CPU. For me MX-5 is one of the worst thermal pastes.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 19, 2022)

Borc said:


> Depends on your CPU.


It really doesn't.


Borc said:


> For me MX-5 is one of the worst thermal pastes.


I have yet to find even one benchmarking test done that shows anything other than MX-5 performing like an absolute champion. Go ahead, go look... If you had a bad experience with it, either you did something wrong applying it or you had a sample of that bad batch that accidentally got shipped. 

If the former, you might want to chance up your application method.

If the later, you need to get in touch with Arctic to get the bad tube you have replaced with a good one.


----------



## Borc (Mar 5, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> It really doesn't.
> 
> I have yet to find even one benchmarking test done that shows anything other than MX-5 performing like an absolute champion. Go ahead, go look... If you had a bad experience with it, either you did something wrong applying it or you had a sample of that bad batch that accidentally got shipped.
> 
> ...




I don't have to look, I tested all the major pastes on my notebook and in fact MX-5 runs like crap. And no I didn't do anything wrong, I can assure you MX-5 runs like crap on my notebook. It's not that I tried MX-5 like 5 times. MX-5 is way to runny, it cannot work on my laptop.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 5, 2022)

Borc said:


> I don't have to look, I tested all the major pastes on my notebook and in fact MX-5 runs like crap. And no I didn't do anything wrong, I can assure you MX-5 runs like crap on my notebook. It's not that I tried MX-5 like 5 times. MX-5 is way to runny, it cannot work on my laptop.



Arctic recalled some of the MX-5 for not working right, sounds like you may have got that bad batch. You can get a free replacement if you contact them.

MX-5 was never runny for me, in fact just opposite, I find it to be too thick, so def sounds like you got the bad batch.


----------



## Borc (Mar 5, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> Arctic recalled some of the MX-5 for not working right, sounds like you may have got that bad batch. You can get a free replacement if you contact them.
> 
> MX-5 was never runny for me, in fact just opposite, I find it to be too thick, so def sounds like you got the bad batch.




My MX-5 is not affected from the batch issue. I bought my MX-5 very early last year, it was one of the first batches, it works as intended. As I said MX-5 is too runny, it cannot really work on my notebook because the CPU die heatsink contact is uneven and pressure is low. The viscosity of MX-5 is lower than the older MX-4 which wasn't a thick paste either. Maybe you never tried out a thick paste, that's why you think it's a thick paste. MX-5 is definitely not a thick paste unless you are affected from the batch issue.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 5, 2022)

Borc said:


> I don't have to look, I tested all the major pastes on my notebook and in fact MX-5 runs like crap.


You are alone in that conclusion.


Borc said:


> My MX-5 is not affected from the batch issue. I bought my MX-5 very early last year, it was one of the first batches, it works as intended.


Then you are doing something wrong.


Borc said:


> As I said MX-5 is too runny, it cannot really work on my notebook because the CPU die heatsink contact is uneven and pressure is low.


MX-5 should NOT be runny. You have a sample of a bad batch. Contact Arctic about it, get your free replacement and quit your whining & meritless badmouthing.


----------



## maxfly (Mar 5, 2022)

Borc said:


> My MX-5 is not affected from the batch issue. I bought my MX-5 very early last year, it was one of the first batches, it works as intended. As I said MX-5 is too runny, it cannot really work on my notebook because the CPU die heatsink contact is uneven and pressure is low. The viscosity of MX-5 is lower than the older MX-4 which wasn't a thick paste either. Maybe you never tried out a thick paste, that's why you think it's a thick paste. MX-5 is definitely not a thick paste unless you are affected from the batch issue.


You point out that your heatsink makes poor,  uneven contact and your conclusion is that the paste is at fault. Sigh. Thermal paste is designed to go on as thin as possible and to only fill the tiny micro cavities between the die(or ihs) and sink. What you need is a proper heatsink replacement or repair.
 Having successfully ruined any credibility right from the start. You forge ahead with a thinly veiled insult(aimed at the very first member to try and help you)? It may be wise to put a tiny bit more thought into your responses. 

Generally when there's a mechanical failure(in your case a seemingly bent heatsink) the next step is to attempt an actual repair vs. duct taping it with gobs of thicker paste. Maybe you've never learned to apply a quality tim before and you just don't know any better?


----------



## Borc (Mar 5, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> You are alone in that conclusion.



Doesn't matter for me, I just say how it is in my experience based on my notebook. Sorry if it disappoints you when MX-5 works like crap on my notebook.



lexluthermiester said:


> Then you are doing something wrong.



I'm not doing something wrong, don't worry. My experience with thermal pastes is huge with many hundreds of different applications from over more than 60 pastes.



lexluthermiester said:


> MX-5 should NOT be runny. You have a sample of a bad batch. Contact Arctic about it, get your free replacement and quit your whining & meritless badmouthing.



Once again, the consistency of my MX-5 is working as intended, my paste is not affected from the bad batch. If anything the bad batch dries out the paste and not the other way around. A replacement won't improve the temps, no chance. MX-5 is too runny for my notebook. MX-4 doesn't work either, although the temps are a bit better actually. MX-4 viscosity is a bit higher which helps in my case.



maxfly said:


> You point out that your heatsink makes poor,  uneven contact and your conclusion is that the paste is at fault. Sigh. Thermal paste is designed to go on as thin as possible and to only fill the tiny micro cavities between the die(or ihs) and sink. What you need is a proper heatsink replacement or repair.




Doesn't work on a laptop, sorry. I can only change the paste, that's all what I can do which is fine when I can easily use a thicker paste.


----------



## Space Lynx (Mar 5, 2022)

Borc said:


> Doesn't matter for me, I just say how it is in my experience based on my notebook. Sorry if it disappoints you when MX-5 works like crap on my notebook.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No need for you to be in this thread then, buy some Noctua paste is my advice, no need to post here anymore really, take care.


----------



## Borc (Mar 5, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> No need for you to be in this thread then, buy some Noctua paste is my advice, no need to post here anymore really, take care.




And why? He asked for experience with MX5 and that's what I gave him. You are not the one who decides in which thread I should go, this is not your business. On a bare die chip an uneven contact can happen, that's why a viscous paste is often recommended for GPUs or notebooks. Something to read for you: https://www.igorslab.de/en/geforce-...water-and-air-coolers-so-heavy-investigative/

Noctua NT-H2 is a much better choice by the way, sure some are better but this is a solid paste even on a my notebook.  The last 1 or 2 degrees are not that super important anyways.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 5, 2022)

Borc said:


> I'm not doing something wrong, don't worry.


If you are getting a result VASTLY different from everyone else, you're doing something wrong or have a sample of the bad batch. Either way, your testing is flawed and YOU have the problem.


Borc said:


> Once again, the consistency of my MX-5 is working as intended, my paste is not affected from the bad batch.


Utter bunk & nonsense. MX-5 has a very viscous consistency. EVERYONE has remarked on that FACT. If your sample is runny, you have one of the bad batch samples.

Say it with me:
*CONTACT ARCTIC FOR A REPLACEMENT!!*



Borc said:


> He asked for experience with MX5 and that's what I gave him.


I didn't ask you for anything.


Borc said:


> And why?


Because you seem to be trolling and little more. Clear off and quit causing trouble.


----------



## Borc (Mar 5, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> If you are getting a result VASTLY different from everyone else, you're doing something wrong or have a sample of the bad batch.




Every device can be different, especially when it comes to bare die chips. Most tests are based on desktop chips, you cannot use test A and say test B must be wrong because of different results, it doesn't work like this. My MX-5 is perfectly fine, for my use case it just doesn't work.




lexluthermiester said:


> Utter bunk & nonsense. MX-5 has a very viscous consistency.




You can be sure that every experienced thermal paste tester agrees with me that MX-5 is by no means a viscous paste. A viscous paste is completely different. For example this is a real viscous paste: 








Obviously you have no clue about what you are talking about.




lexluthermiester said:


> Because you seem to trolling and little more. Clear off and quit causing trouble.



You don't like my sharings because you are obviously a MX-5 ******, that's why you are trying to discredit my sharings. You have to learn that not everyone agrees with you and goes into a MX-5 hype mode. Unlike you I have tested almost every major paste. I have a collection of over 60 thermal pastes.

Just learn to accept different experiences. My experience with MX-5 is a bad one based on real tests over many many hours on my notebook, I'm not saying it's a bad one for others. Think about it.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 5, 2022)

Borc said:


> Every device can be different, especially when it comes to bare die chips. Most tests are based on desktop chips, you cannot use test A and say test B must be wrong because of different results, it doesn't work like this.


I personally have three laptops. I've also installed MX-5 on every laptop in my office and at my PC shop for the last year. In ALL cases, thermal performance improved.



Borc said:


> You can be sure that every experienced thermal paste tester agrees with me that MX-5 is by no means a viscous paste. A viscous paste is completely different.


Blah Blah blah..



Borc said:


> Obviously you have no clue about what you are talking about.


Oh clearly. 



Borc said:


> You don't like my sharings because you are obviously a MX-5 ******


You know I'm right. How do I know you know I'm right? Because you've resorted to multiple insults. You can stop with the insults. You how else do we know you're wrong? You have yet to produce ANY credible evidence to support your claims. This is because you can't, none exists. EVERY review of MX-5 shows it to be excellent.



Borc said:


> My experience with MX-5 is a bad one


And you are ALONE in that experience. So again, you're either doing something wrong or have a sample of the bad batch. *It is that simple.*


----------



## mama (Mar 6, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> I personally have three laptops. I've also installed MX-5 on every laptop in my office and at my PC shop for the last year. In ALL cases, thermal performance improved.
> 
> 
> Blah Blah blah..
> ...


Borc is entitled to his opinion.  When it comes to a product like thermal paste, with different philosophies on composition and viscosity, that is fair.  It is going too far to say he cannot contribute and should leave the thread because others disagree with his opinion on the product.  I don't think anyone wants an echo chamber.  Personally I only use Thermal Grizzly so I really have nothing of substance to add.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Mar 6, 2022)

mama said:


> Borc is entitled to his opinion.


True. But he is NOT entitled to be a troll. He was asked by myself AND the OP to let the matter go and he persisted in pressing his nonsense agenda, which to me seems to be focused on badmouthing MX-5 and Arctic.


mama said:


> It is going too far to say he cannot contribute and should leave the thread because others disagree with his opinion on the product.


He's not being asked to leave the thread for disagreeing. He's being ask to stop with the disinformation. When opinion flies in the face of established knowledge and fact, it ceases to be opinion and becomes disinformation. Persisting with that disinformation is a form of trolling.


mama said:


> I don't think anyone wants an echo chamber.


Of course not. However what we DON'T want or need is people spouting nonsense easily proven wrong.


mama said:


> Personally I only use Thermal Grizzly so I really have nothing of substance to add.


And that is your preference. You are welcome to it and I think everyone can agree it's a good one. Thermal Grizzly is a solid performer. But you see, you're not calling MX-5 crap. That's what Borc was doing.


----------



## ThrashZone (Mar 6, 2022)

Hi,
Mine seemed wet too but sure isn't worth contacting them for another tube I'm not using it on a laptop anyway not sure mx-5 was ever recommended for one
It's so-so if you spread it thin on both surfaces and let it sit for a little while it dries a bit.

Think I went back to nt-h1 on z490 and x99 think mx-5 is still on x299 though might be opening it up tomorrow see if the block is still clear optimus water blocks make pretty good filters lol


----------



## 95Viper (Mar 6, 2022)

Stop the insults.
Stay on topic.
Report problems... do not contribute to them.
Stop trolling the thread.

Thank You.


----------



## Borc (Mar 6, 2022)

I get poor results with my MX-5....and by the way with many other pastes as well.




lexluthermiester said:


> You know I'm right. How do I know you know I'm right? Because you've resorted to multiple insults. You can stop with the insults. You how else do we know you're wrong? You have yet to produce ANY credible evidence to support your claims. This is because you can't, none exists. EVERY review of MX-5 shows it to be excellent.




Whatever I post you wouldn't agree. I have posted all my results in other forums, just not here.




lexluthermiester said:


> And you are ALONE in that experience. So again, you're either doing something wrong or have a sample of the bad batch. *It is that simple.*













You cannot do this with a viscous paste, doesn't work.

Arctic MX-5= 550 poise
Arctic MX-4= 870 Poise

Perfectly fine for a heatspreader CPU and I would guess also for most of the bare die CPUs/GPUs. However on a bare die CPU/GPU it is a risk, I would recommend a more viscous paste.


After many hundrets of hours or thermal paste tests in the last 1.5 years I'm certainly a master of thermal paste application. MX-5 is a paste I tried a lot, roughly 15 applications. Quite funny when people tell me I'm doing something wrong.


----------



## Lateshow (Apr 1, 2022)

After reading through this thread I decided to try out some MX5.  I had been running various pastes over the decades, AS5 to Kryo to LM. Was planning on doing a mass repaste on a bunch of hardware we purchased last year. I wanted something that was easy, and would last. MX5's claimed 8 yr running time, temps, and price (2g for $5.xx at amazon) seemed like a no brainer. Grizzly was like 4x's the price.

First thing was my laptop.  I thought it may have been a bit watery when I applied it, but using an old grizzly spatula, it seemed to have substance, and covered the chips nicely. I then "painted the cooler jic. I was expecting at least a 5 degree drop, which is fair since the laptop has been in heavy use, the old paste was mostly dried up, and the cooler/fans were just cleaned.

Long story short... Temps went up slightly, or were the same. No one said anything about a cure time but after an hour of various tests, it was clear. So I took it apart again, and added more MX5. Ran it overnight, and now I think I'm getting 1 to maybe 2 degrees better than the stock stuff, but I'm not sure if that was any better than than when I originally bought the laptop. I'm in the 80's after running 3dmarks time spy which is basically the same as when I originally got it. So it's not even a mounting thing. Temps would be much higer if the cooler wasn't flush.

I ordered 2 tubes when I saw Arctic had 2g tubes for $5.xx. Arctic had 2 different listings for the exact same (no spatula) 2g tubes, but one Arctic listing had it for $1 more. Now I'm wondering if it's QC thing, or they were actively selling some inferior paste for a buck less. I won't be ordering the $1 more MX5 2g tubes either way. I'd rather bite bullet, and pay quadruple for stuff that works. I'm starting to see how some people are saying that this stuff isn't all that. Reviewers get prime samples straight from the company. No chance of inferior paste going there. I got mines from Arctics store on Amazon.

I might do more testing. Might open the 2nd tube. Might make a return. Not at all impressed.


----------



## Space Lynx (Apr 1, 2022)

Lateshow said:


> After reading through this thread I decided to try out some MX5.  I had been running various pastes over the decades, AS5 to Kryo to LM. Was planning on doing a mass repaste on a bunch of hardware we purchased last year. I wanted something that was easy, and would last. MX5's claimed 8 yr running time, temps, and price (2g for $5.xx at amazon) seemed like a no brainer. Grizzly was like 4x's the price.
> 
> First thing was my laptop.  I thought it may have been a bit watery when I applied it, but using an old grizzly spatula, it seemed to have substance, and covered the chips nicely. I then "painted the cooler jic. I was expecting at least a 5 degree drop, which is fair since the laptop has been in heavy use, the old paste was mostly dried up, and was just cleaned.
> 
> ...



I recommend you get Noctua NT-H2.  It is my favorite.


----------



## Shrek (Apr 1, 2022)

I like GD900 (the original not the -2 version)

Just over $4 for 30g


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 1, 2022)

Lateshow said:


> First thing was my laptop. I thought it may have been a bit watery when I applied it, but using an old grizzly spatula, it seemed to have substance, and covered the chips nicely. I then "painted the cooler jic. I was expecting at least a 5 degree drop, which is fair since the laptop has been in heavy use, the old paste was mostly dried up, and the cooler/fans were just cleaned.
> 
> Long story short... Temps went up slightly, or were the same. No one said anything about a cure time but after an hour of various tests, it was clear. So I took it apart again, and added more MX5. Ran it overnight, and now I think I'm getting 1 to maybe 2 degrees better than the stock stuff, but I'm not sure if that was any better than than when I originally bought the laptop. I'm in the 80's after running 3dmarks time spy which is basically the same as when I originally got it. So it's not even a mounting thing. Temps would be much higer if the cooler wasn't flush.


Do try to remember, that's a laptop. Laptops are very heat saturated devices because of the compact nature of them. Other than using liquid metal, you're not going to see any drastic improvements on a laptop and even liquid metal will not improve cooling, it would only improve thermal transfer. To see any benefit from a better TIM, you need to improve your cooling solution. On a laptop, you're spoiled for choice. So in your situation the TIM is not to blame, the cooling solution is.


----------



## Lateshow (Apr 2, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Do try to remember, that's a laptop. Laptops are very heat saturated devices because of the compact nature of them. Other than using liquid metal, you're not going to see any drastic improvements on a laptop and even liquid metal will not improve cooling, it would only improve thermal transfer. To see any benefit from a better TIM, you need to improve your cooling solution. On a laptop, you're spoiled for choice. So in your situation the TIM is not to blame, the cooling solution is.



I understand what going on. I wasn't expecting a 5 degree drop from stock. 1-3 has been my experience from average to good pastes. This laptop has been heavy use, and temps have gone up a few degrees since I got it.  I was looking for a 5 degree drop from current temps, or 1-3 better than stock. It appears to be matching the stock paste at the very least. I'd be fine with it for the claimed long life, but with no drop in temps compared to the stock paste, I'm worried I got an inferior batch. I'll probably try the 2nd tube next. Get another good look at the footprint on the cooler to see if it was somehow off. 

If that doesn't work, I guess I'll order more Griz. I should have ordered 1 of each arctic, and a krylo lol. Always gonna wonder why they had the same tubes at 2 different prices.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 2, 2022)

Lateshow said:


> It appears to be matching the stock paste at the very least.


Then it's doing it's job.


Lateshow said:


> I'm worried I got an inferior batch.


If it were, your temps would not be matching the stock temps, they'd be worse. No worries, your laptop is just being a laptop. My Dell Vostro V131 only saw a 3C improvement. But that was also after a good cleaning. Laptops are a different animal from desktops where cooling is concerned.


----------



## kanmer (Apr 4, 2022)

Mine was very thick. It was like trying to spread a melted gum on the sidewalk. You guys think I got a bad batch? Temps seem as good as the Noctua NT-H1 paste it replaced. I was hoping it'd be better.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 4, 2022)

kanmer said:


> Mine was very thick. It was like trying to spread a melted gum on the sidewalk. You guys think I got a bad batch?


Nope. That seems about right.


kanmer said:


> Temps seem as good as the Noctua NT-H1 paste it replaced. I was hoping it'd be better.


As long as it's not worse, you should be good. Perhaps a better cooling solution? There are many factors that go into cooling. TIM is only one of them. A good TIM will not do it's best if the cooling solution is not good enough to realize the difference.

BTW, Welcome to TPU!


----------



## kanmer (Apr 4, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> BTW, Welcome to TPU!


Thanks!


----------



## Lateshow (Apr 7, 2022)

Well, I finally got around to swapping pastes. The original testing was at night when we were in the low 70's, today was in the 90s'. Due to the 20+ degree increase in ambient temps, I couldn't use the original runs to compare MX5 with the new paste, so I did some quick runs for a baseline. The laptop had been heavy use all week, and temps were better than the year old factory paste, but not noticeably better than when I originally got the laptop.

As expected, the MX5 was still wet. I had applied extra after getting high temps with the 1st application, and both chips, and coolers, were well covered. One chip had squeezed out most of the paste on one side again, but you could still see there was plenty to fill in any micro cracks. 

After cleaning up the MX5, I applied Kryonaut with a spatula, and painted on a notieably thinner layer than the MX5 had.  I ran 3Dmark a few times. The 1st run was lower by around 3.5 degrees on both the GPU, and on it's hot spot. CPU temps dropped by 6 degrees.  Following runs had the GPU dropping by 4-5+ degrees. 1 run had the CPU 10-11 degrees cooler, and others were around 8 degrees. 

Maybe it's a quality control issue because that's far too wide... Some of it has to with it not being as viscous as Kryonaut. I think it doesn't take to bare procs as well as the Kryo does. Unless the MX5 needed more time to set, it just did not perform like reviews. Reviewers had it performing close to Kryo, but this isn't close. Some of it might be QC, going by mines, and other people's experience. Remember, it was a dollar less a tube for some reason. Why would they have 2 listings for the same product, from the exact same seller, Arctic. It also originally came out watery, but thickened up when I used a spatula to spread it. Similar to other users reports. MX5 might work better on heat spreaders, than it does on bare processors, but mines seems to be from a bad batch.


----------



## ZoneDymo (Apr 11, 2022)

Lateshow said:


> Well, I finally got around to swapping pastes. The original testing was at night when we were in the low 70's, today was in the 90s'. Due to the 20+ degree increase in ambient temps, I couldn't use the original runs to compare MX5 with the new paste, so I did some quick runs for a baseline. The laptop had been heavy use all week, and temps were better than the year old factory paste, but not noticeably better than when I originally got the laptop.
> 
> As expected, the MX5 was still wet. I had applied extra after getting high temps with the 1st application, and both chips, and coolers, were well covered. One chip had squeezed out most of the paste on one side again, but you could still see there was plenty to fill in any micro cracks.
> 
> ...



I have to say I used some Kryonaut for my recent pc build and it came out much dryer then I am used to with Arctic (I think I had mx2) which was a tad concerning.
Its a good thing that arctic remains ermm fluid and all unneeded access is squished out if you apply enough pressure, that is why "too much" thermalpaste isnt really a thing.

Anywho, yeah idk, I am thinking of getting some MX4 or 5 myself to replace the Kryonaut, though I dont think its preforming poorly as is.


----------



## aQi (Apr 11, 2022)

Ao any conclusions mx4 vs mx5 ?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 11, 2022)

aQi said:


> Ao any conclusions mx4 vs mx5 ?


Both are good choices. MX-5 is an improvement and provides premium performance without the premium price.


----------



## Swolley (Apr 12, 2022)

Having used both MX-5 and Noctua NT-H2 extensively, I lean heavily towards NT-H2 for it's similar performance and ease of application.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 12, 2022)

Swolley said:


> Having used both MX-5 and Noctua NT-H2 extensively, I lean heavily towards NT-H2 for it's similar performance and ease of application.


The problem with NT-H2 is that it dries out and looses some of it's heat transfer capability over time. MX-5 does not suffer from that problem.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 12, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> The problem with NT-H2 is that it dries out and looses some of it's heat transfer capability over time. MX-5 does not suffer from that problem.


To me mx5 and kryonaut spread the same.

Heck Id still use AS5 even lol


----------



## aQi (Apr 12, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Both are good choices. MX-5 is an improvement and provides premium performance without the premium price.


Improved in thermals ?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 12, 2022)

eidairaman1 said:


> To me mx5 and kryonaut spread the same.


They're comparable to each other in performance as well. KPX also has similar qualities and is an excellent performer also.


eidairaman1 said:


> Heck Id still use AS5 even lol


ArcticSilver5 is, to this day, still a solid performer. And it's still for sale at a reasonable price.



aQi said:


> Improved in thermals ?


Compared to MX-4, yes. We're talking about 3C or 4C so the difference is not huge. But the improvement is there. IF you already have MX-4, it's still a good TIM, use it til it's gone. If you currently need a new TIM, MX-5 is at the top of my list. Reason? As mentioned before, it's a premium performer without the premium price.


----------



## Secret Rival (Apr 12, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> yeah I saw that when I ordered. for ten cents its worth it imo, just in case.  lol also the little spatula might come in handy for other stuff so meh.


If you have ever seen Bill Murray in 'Stripes', you'll know that is the truth!


----------



## freeagent (Apr 12, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> ArcticSilver5 is, to this day, still a solid performer. And it's still for sale at a reasonable price.


I ran out of SYY and just had enough to do my 5600X. I have AS5 on my 5900X and its actually pretty good


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 12, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I have AS5 on my 5900X and its actually pretty good


Not surprising. AS5 is and always has been a good performer.


----------



## freeagent (Apr 12, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not surprising. AS5 is and always has been a good performer.


I lost sight of that. I had been using it for a decade before I tried anything else.. and I just kept going up to the top. I had spent so much time using the fancy stuff, I forgot why I had been using AS5 for so long. Now I don't have any fancy stuff, and I am ok with it


----------



## XT785 (Apr 21, 2022)

Hello dear and respected members! I own a i7-8750H and a GTX 1060 laptop. Please recommend me the best overall paste in your experience for a laptop. Thanks!


----------



## freeagent (Apr 21, 2022)

XT785 said:


> Hello dear and respected members! I own a i7-8750H and a GTX 1060 laptop. Please recommend me the best overall paste in your experience for a laptop. Thanks!


Thermalright TFX.


----------



## XT785 (Apr 21, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Thermalright TFX.


Thanks! Any 2nd & 3rd recommendations if in case TFX is not available for purchase?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 21, 2022)

XT785 said:


> Thanks! Any 2nd & 3rd recommendations if in case TFX is not available for purchase?


Perhaps MX-5, the subject of this thread. Been using it in both of my laptops and it works perfectly. KPX is also an excellent TIM.



freeagent said:


> Thermalright TFX.


This is a good one too!


----------



## freeagent (Apr 21, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Perhaps MX-5, the subject of this thread. Been using it in both of my laptops and it works perfectly. KPX is also an excellent TIM.
> 
> 
> This is a good one too!


Sorry, I should know better


----------



## Salvo39 (Apr 21, 2022)

Using MX-4 I just repasted my EliteBook with the i7-1185G7 and (even with the stock paste) it has these short spikes of 100/105C but the average stays low around ~60/~70C
Would changing to MX-5 or Thermalright TFX help? These EliteBook's come with a super tiny heatsink so I am wondering if changing to thicker/different pastes would make any difference?


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 21, 2022)

Still using MX4 on my 12700k and gtx1080, temps are really very good. I'll give this a try when i buy new


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 21, 2022)

Salvo39 said:


> Would changing to MX-5 or Thermalright TFX help?


It might help a little, say a few degree C, but the problem is the cooling solution inside the laptop. You need to find a way to get the fan profile to kick into high speed sooner, either through the BIOS or a utility. HP themselves might even have one.



freeagent said:


> Sorry, I should know better


Wait, what did I miss?


----------



## freeagent (Apr 21, 2022)

I am actually using AS5 right now.. I might have went a bit thin because temps were better before it cured. I can see why I ventured off to try others 

Its not that great.. I did get another tube of SYY-157 though two day ago 

One day I will order a tube of MX just to see.. one day..


----------



## SpittinFax (Apr 22, 2022)

Kingpin KPX is really impressive stuff in outright performance, I used it on the die of my delidded 4770K and get great temperatures. The problem is that outside the U.S. it's so hard to find and usually overpriced (although still nowhere near the huge prices of Thermal Grizzly). Arctic MX-5 sacrifices a couple degrees in comparison but it's a fraction of the cost and has a long application life, so ultimately I find it's the best all-rounder for the majority of build scenarios.


----------



## XT785 (Apr 22, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Perhaps MX-5, the subject of this thread. Been using it in both of my laptops and it works perfectly. KPX is also an excellent TIM.
> 
> 
> This is a good one too!


Respected Sir, I don't have much knowledge about these thermal pastes but I want a paste for my laptop which can lower temps considerably and has remarkable longevity in terms of not drying out etc. and not having to repaste it that frequently! Thanks.

Out of these which one should I go for: MX-5, KPx, SYY-157, TFX or any other? Thank you.



freeagent said:


> Thermalright TFX.


Out of these which one should I go for: MX-5, KPx, SYY-157, TFX or any other? Thank you.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 22, 2022)

XT785 said:


> Out of these which one should I go for: MX-5, KPx, SYY-157, TFX or any other? Thank you.


My vote is MX-5. High performance without the high price. Best bang for buck on the market.


----------



## XT785 (Apr 22, 2022)

Which Thermal Paste to buy and apply (Traditional and Liquid Metal)
					






					notebooktalk.net


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 22, 2022)

XT785 said:


> Which Thermal Paste to buy and apply (Traditional and Liquid Metal)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting tests. Now look up prices. TFX is at the top of that list, but it's also very pricey and there are no guarantees you're going to get the same performance shown in that system on your laptop. 

Also, as I've said before, the TIM is only one part of the equation. If the cooling solution is not up to the task being asked of it, the heatsink compound won't help much no matter how good it is.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 23, 2022)

imo cheapest cooling warrants cheapest paste, whereas a good loop might benefit from the best paste. Or could that work the opposite way around?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 23, 2022)

Tigger said:


> imo cheapest cooling warrants cheapest paste, whereas a good loop might benefit from the best paste. Or could that work the opposite way around?


There is a difference between "cheap" and "inexpensive".


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 23, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> There is a difference between "cheap" and "inexpensive".



It's probably just the way i come across, to me cheap means does not cost a lot, not rubbish.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 23, 2022)

Tigger said:


> It's probably just the way i come across, to me cheap means does not cost a lot, not rubbish.


No worries, cheap means different things to some people..


----------



## XT785 (Apr 23, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Interesting tests. Now look up prices. TFX is at the top of that list, but it's also very pricey and there are no guarantees you're going to get the same performance shown in that system on your laptop.
> 
> Also, as I've said before, the TIM is only one part of the equation. If the cooling solution is not up to the task being asked of it, the heatsink compound won't help much no matter how good it is.


Please can you explain what you mean by cooling solution is not up to the task..how can I check it on my laptop?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 23, 2022)

XT785 said:


> Please can you explain what you mean by cooling solution is not up to the task..how can I check it on my laptop?


Sure. What I mean by that is if the cooling system in your laptop is of limited thermal capacity, the heatsink compound you use will be of little consequence as long as you use a good one. If the laptop was/is already struggling to keep the system cool, it will continue to do so regardless. Put another way, a quality heatsink compound can not cure the limitations of a poorly designed cooling solution.

No TIM, regardless of brand or type, can be a miracle solution if a subject heatsink and fan can not extract heat from the system in question very effectively..


----------



## Mussels (Apr 25, 2022)

XT785 said:


> Please can you explain what you mean by cooling solution is not up to the task..how can I check it on my laptop?


You can use the best thermal compound in the universe, and it wont matter if the heatsink isn't big enough with enough ventilation
Many laptops are designed for 'average use' and the cooling is garbage under heavy load


----------



## XT785 (Apr 25, 2022)

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/MSILaptops/comments/schabj


----------



## Mussels (Apr 26, 2022)

What matters a lot with laptops is how long the thermal paste stays intact for, as well

I'm not sure if you were part of that conversation earlier in the thread or not


----------



## maxfly (Apr 26, 2022)

XT785 said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/MSILaptops/comments/schabj


So being that this is a copy pasted reddit post from 4 months ago...
What are the long term results?


----------



## XT785 (Apr 26, 2022)

maxfly said:


> So being that this is a copy pasted reddit post from 4 months ago...
> What are the long term results?







I asked the OP yesterday about it! He says the results are the same as day 1. No sign of degradation. He even has a youtube channel where he is testing it. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6pf0tLLBFPkBYJigLt3s3Q

*Rofa1234 (Rooter1234) talks about it and shared some articles.*





						Which Thermal Paste to buy and apply (Traditional and Liquid Metal)
					






					notebooktalk.net
				




More people reviewed the same TIM (4 months old)


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/LenovoLegion/comments/rn3xhg


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLaptops/comments/t53g4d


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 26, 2022)

Discussion is starting to stray from the topic. Let's keep it focused on MX-5 so the mods don't have a reason to close the thread.


----------



## ThrashZone (Apr 26, 2022)

Hi,
After sending out bad batches on release does anyone really care about mx5 alien baby shit anymore


----------



## Falkentyne (May 1, 2022)

Mussels said:


> You can use the best thermal compound in the universe, and it wont matter if the heatsink isn't big enough with enough ventilation
> Many laptops are designed for 'average use' and the cooling is garbage under heavy load



To be fair, the #1 priority on laptops is to get the heatsink properly balanced and with firm, even contact pressure.  Tripod heatsinks are the worst.
IF you have proper Conductive Balls of Doom protection (thin soft (low PPI) polyurethane foam dams + Kapton tape (or nitrocellulose based nail polish on substrate contacts) on BGA throttlebooks, Keaded Eraser (Great stuff) around the socket on the rare LGAbooks, and you did some work to balance or fix the mounting pressure (spring clip mods, removing C-clips, washer mods, even very carefully sanding the heatsink base flat, with the very careful "less is more" as you have very little leeway on this), then Liquid Metal is always going to be the best option.
Even if the MAX temps remain "close" to the same as on high end paste, the important thing is the time to reach 'steady state' (max temps) increases substantially on liquid metal, because more heat is pulled off the chip, and the heatsink slowly gets heat soaked so the chip stays cooler longer.  This is a good thing for laptops with TAU/turbo boost power limit settings, where higher loads can only be maintained for short times, then liquid metal would keep the temps down for you.  Even for max temps, LM vs Kryonaut/MX5/SYY-157 can still be a 10C difference.

But LM requires mature, responsible people using it.


----------



## Icon Charlie (May 1, 2022)

ZoneDymo said:


> I have to say I used some Kryonaut for my recent pc build and it came out much dryer then I am used to with Arctic (I think I had mx2) which was a tad concerning.
> Its a good thing that arctic remains ermm fluid and all unneeded access is squished out if you apply enough pressure, that is why "too much" thermalpaste isnt really a thing.
> 
> Anywho, yeah idk, I am thinking of getting some MX4 or 5 myself to replace the Kryonaut, though I dont think its preforming poorly as is.


I went back to Artic MX4 because in my case the temp changes were negligible for such the cost difference for the amount you get. 

To put it bluntly Kyronaut was a expensive joke. I was not impressed in what you get.  I've already posted how cool my computer is running these days.  I am using Artic MX-4  on my current rig.


----------



## Boombastik (May 21, 2022)

It seems that arctic mx-5 discontinued.
End-of-Life
-https://www.arctic.de/en/MX-5/ACTCP00047A


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 21, 2022)

Boombastik said:


> It seems that arctic mx-5 discontinued.
> End-of-Life
> -https://www.arctic.de/en/MX-5/ACTCP00047A


WTF?


----------



## FreedomEclipse (May 21, 2022)

Boombastik said:


> It seems that arctic mx-5 discontinued.
> End-of-Life
> -https://www.arctic.de/en/MX-5/ACTCP00047A



that was very very fast....

Looking into it, it seems that the paste had a lot of issues and while Arctic did a product recall it seems that the issues ran much deeper and widespread than they thought and ceased production of it entirely.

I wonder if the people who bought the paste are able to get a refund? Probably not i assume.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 21, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> WTF?


Hi,
Alien baby shit like I said originally I didn't use it long at all
Think you were overly optimistic of how good it is/ was.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 21, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Think you were overly optimistic of how good it is/ was.


Not at all. Still using it and it's still performing perfectly.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 21, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Not at all. Still using it and it's still performing perfectly.


Hi,
Welp I guess you know better than the manufacture.
You plan on emailing arctic to protest their decision ?


----------



## maxfly (May 21, 2022)

Wow, I hadn't heard anything about it being discontinued.
I've still got mx5 on several rigs with no issues to note. Guess I'm a lucky one. Temps are the same as they were when I started using it on the test rig. I've swapped heatsinks at least three times and haven't noticed anything untoward. Oh well, I'll finish off what I have left and start using the 20gram tube of mx4 for client rigs and continue using up the pk3 I have for my main rig. Or maybe I'll experiment with something else. Then again, summer is here, so time is precious.


----------



## freeagent (May 21, 2022)

They will come out with a MKII of it I am sure.. Legends never die, after all


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 21, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Welp I guess you know better than the manufacture.


What the hell was that?


ThrashZone said:


> You plan on emailing arctic to protest their decision ?


Why? I mean, do you think I'm a fanboy or something? 



freeagent said:


> They will come out with a MKII of it I am sure.. Legends never die, after all


That could be it. Or perhaps people were whining so damn much that they were forced to rework the formulation and introduce a new version.


----------



## P4-630 (May 21, 2022)

When are the tests of Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme incoming?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 21, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> When are the tests of Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme incoming?


I would likely do KPX instead. It's bulk prices are more reasonable. Kryonaut Extreme is too pricey for me to buy in bulk for my shop.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (May 21, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> What the hell was that?
> 
> Why? I mean, do you think I'm a fanboy or something?
> 
> ...



I'd wager either batch consistency issues (reports of issues don't seem to be rare) or trouble sourcing a component.  A component may have even gotten regulated/banned.  The company I work for has a large adhesive project coming up all of a sudden, because 3M is being forced to discontinue a tape we use _very_ widely due to some new reg in the EU restricting use of something that's required to make it. Just spitballing here, of course. I've no sources at Arctic or anything.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 21, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> What the hell was that?
> 
> Why? I mean, do you think I'm a fanboy or something?


Hi,
You've been pretty consistent in bluntly correcting anybody with different results "whining" than your own 

Manufacture eol'ed mx-5 period not much to misunderstand there or is there in your opinion
I said no manufacturer knows best.

Only thing left is for op to edit and add the new info
@jboydgolfer​


----------



## SpittinFax (May 21, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Welp I guess you know better than the manufacture.
> You plan on emailing arctic to protest their decision ?





ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> You've been pretty consistent in bluntly correcting anybody with different results "whining" than your own
> 
> Manufacture eol'ed mx-5 period not much to misunderstand there or is there in your opinion
> ...



You're trying so hard to turn this into a big personal argument and get the thread closed.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 22, 2022)

SpittinFax said:


> You're trying so hard to turn this into a big personal argument and get the thread closed.


There's an easier solution, ignore that user. It's all of two clicks. If someone is going to act like a jerk...



80-watt Hamster said:


> I'd wager either batch consistency issues (reports of issues don't seem to be rare) or trouble sourcing a component.  A component may have even gotten regulated/banned.  The company I work for has a large adhesive project coming up all of a sudden, because 3M is being forced to discontinue a tape we use _very_ widely due to some new reg in the EU restricting use of something that's required to make it. Just spitballing here, of course. I've no sources at Arctic or anything.


Exactly, without an announcement we have no idea what the problem is.


----------



## cvaldes (May 22, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Exactly, without an announcement we have no idea what the problem is.


Then we will never know.

People here and elsewhere can speculate all they want but it's essentially all blather.

And it's not like there's a recipe or (publicly available) ingredient list for thermal compounds. If Arctic eventually ships MX-6, there's no way for Joe Consumer to know all the differences between it and MX-5.

Anyhow, MX-5 is dead. My instinct tells me that it has to do with profitability. If I were to hazard a guess, it would be that one of the crucial ingredients was only reliably produced by one source. If it wasn't available, Arctic went to an alternate source(s) that wasn't consistently good.

Let's face it, PC enthusiast-grade thermal grease isn't a major commodity produced in large quantities. It's a fringe product.

For what it's worth, I have a nearly spent 8g syringe of MX-5 and when it's gone, I have plenty of fine alternatives in the same price range.

One thing for sure, MX-4 has far better handling characteristics and is way easier to apply than sticky MX-5 in my experience. The latter showed no significant thermal capacity improvements over the former in my usage.

One possible scenario is that MX-5 loses more thermal performance after a couple of years, something that Arctic engineers might have had difficulty identifying in lab tests during development. Of course, Arctic would never confirm such a condition but there exists the possibility that Arctic now expects MX-5 long-term results to be inferior to well-proven MX-4.


----------



## SpittinFax (May 22, 2022)

80-watt Hamster said:


> I'd wager either batch consistency issues (reports of issues don't seem to be rare) or trouble sourcing a component.  A component may have even gotten regulated/banned.  The company I work for has a large adhesive project coming up all of a sudden, because 3M is being forced to discontinue a tape we use _very_ widely due to some new reg in the EU restricting use of something that's required to make it. Just spitballing here, of course. I've no sources at Arctic or anything.



That would be the more likely reason for axing the product. Another possible reason (and this is just speculation from my own experience) is the poor mixing of MX-5. It seems like it either comes out of the syringe as clay or oil which makes it difficult to apply. Once applied though the thermals are the best I've seen from an affordable thermal paste.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 22, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Only thing left is for op to edit and add the new info
> @jboydgolfer​


Just an FYI, jboydgolfer is not the OP..

By the By, I found the following:








Followed by this:









It's been a LONG time since I've applied a heatsink without TIM. And it seems the application method doesn't matter much.. Very interesting!


----------



## mclaren85 (May 22, 2022)

Do you think it performs better than its predecessor?
Currently I use MX-4, which brand should I switch to?
My gpu idle is 44 and in game 65C, whereas cpu works within the 39-50 range.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 22, 2022)

Hi,
Yep op is on ignore, change his/ her name recently all I saw was post 2 and didn't notice it was post 2  

Either way everyone can look forward to mx-5 2022 version 
Seeing there is a mx-4 2019 version seems likely and is as wet as mx-5 at least my tube was except green.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 22, 2022)

mclaren85 said:


> Do you think it performs better than its predecessor?
> Currently I use MX-4, which brand should I switch to?
> My gpu idle is 44 and in game 65C, whereas cpu works within the 39-50 range.



If you need new thermal paste I always recommend Noctua NT-H1 or NT-H2.


----------



## Shrek (May 22, 2022)

Any other GD900 users out there?


----------



## mclaren85 (May 22, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> If you need new thermal paste I always recommend Noctua NT-H1 or NT-H2.


I just want a better change.
However it is been speculated that noctuas are notorious for it's pump out effect.


----------



## freeagent (May 22, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Any other GD900 users out there?


I just can’t bring myself to do it.

Still using SYY-157 here.. 


mclaren85 said:


> However it is been speculated that noctuas are notorious for it's pump out effect.


NTH1 is total shit.. at least the tube that came with my D14 was.


----------



## mclaren85 (May 22, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Still using SYY-157 here.


Is it a generic brand or what? Are youy happy with its cooling performance?


----------



## freeagent (May 22, 2022)

mclaren85 said:


> Is it a generic brand or what? Are youy happy with its cooling performance?


I had never heard of them before until last year or so. Another member had talked about them and compared it to Thermalright TFX.. which was the best TIM I had used. So I tried it out and thought it’s not quite as good as TFX, it is still very good, and for the price I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it. It is my go to paste right now. I put that $&@/ on everything


----------



## Space Lynx (May 22, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I had never heard of them before until last year or so. Another member had talked about them and compared it to Thermalright TFX.. which was the best TIM I had used. So I tried it out and thought it’s not quite as good as TFX, it is still very good, and for the price I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it. It is my go to paste right now. I put that $&@/ on everything



I may get some as well, so yeah I would change my answer to that, consensus seems to say it is the best for cost ratio.


----------



## 1100R (May 22, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I had never heard of them before until last year or so. Another member had talked about them and compared it to Thermalright TFX.. which was the best TIM I had used. So I tried it out and thought it’s not quite as good as TFX, it is still very good, and for the price I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend it. It is my go to paste right now. I put that $&@/ on everything


Same here.


----------



## Blaeza (May 22, 2022)

MX4 is all I've ever used. So its the best ever for me...


----------



## Pictus (May 22, 2022)

mclaren85 said:


> Is it a generic brand or what? Are youy happy with its cooling performance?



Check https://albestech.com/review-syy-157/


----------



## Blaeza (May 22, 2022)

Good shizzle then!


----------



## P4-630 (May 22, 2022)

Pictus said:


> Check https://albestech.com/review-syy-157/



Kryonaut Extreme bubblegum not on it....


----------



## mclaren85 (May 23, 2022)

Maybe we should search and find an industrial grade thermal paste.


----------



## Shrek (May 23, 2022)

What do the military use?


----------



## MachineLearning (May 23, 2022)

mclaren85 said:


> Maybe we should search and find an industrial grade thermal paste.


Shin-Etsu X23-7783D


			https://www.microsi.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/X23-7783D-TDS-June-2015.pdf
		


Dow Corning TC-5xxx (-5022 example)


			http://www.audentia-gestion.fr/Farnell-PDF/1339822.pdf
		


Honeywell TGxxxx


			https://thermalmanagement.honeywell.com/content/dam/thermalmanagement/en/documents/document-lists/technical/pmt-am-tims-tg2000i-tg5500-data-sheet.pdf
		


National Renewable Energy Labs in 2008 did testing on a selection of thermal pastes, including TC-5022, a Shin-Etsu paste, - and the perennial AS5.


			http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy08osti/42972.pdf
		


Very interesting report. Even if you don't care about any of these pastes it's worth bookmarking.

AFAIK Dow Corning is what's stock on Intel heatsinks or it was for many years. Stable paste, performs similarly throughout its lifetime. Also used in aviation.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (May 23, 2022)

Shrek said:


> What do the military use?



They have no idea.  The contractors building whatever it is that has paste in it will use whatever compound allows them to meet spec at the lowest cost possible.

In general, using mil-spec as any kind of yardstick is a bad idea.  If you want to know why, ask someone who's served.  (Full disclosure, I've done the asking, not the serving.)


----------



## bobbybluz (May 23, 2022)

I have some mobo/CPU swap tests to do later next week. One box has an Arctic LF II 240 w/4 Silverstone FM121's in push/pull at full speed (110cfm each). It currently has an Asus ROG Maximus VIII Hero/7700K in it. The other has an Asus ROG Maximus Hero XI WiFi/9900K coooled by an Arctic LF II 360 w/6 EverFlow R121225BU's (OEM version of the FM121) in push/pull. I also have several 150cfm Delta FFB1212EH-PWM's to play with on hand as well. No side panels will be used on the cases during testing.

I have several different tubes of thermal pastes in my inventory. I happen to have two 4 gram tubes of SYY-157 that haven't been opened yet that I'm going to try out. The test board/CPU combo is a new ASRock Z690 Steel Legend WiFi and the CPU is a new Alder Lake i5-12600K. Since the two test cases have the radiators & fans mounted externally (something Arctic says they think should be done more often with hot running CPU's) swapping the mobo/CPU with a NVMe drive running a fresh install of Win 11 Enterprise is the easiest way to go. I'll be shooting for 5.2GHz on the P-cores and highly suspect the 360 with Delta fans at full speed will give the best results overall. HWINFO will be what I measure the temps with.

I have some MX-5, MX-4, Gelid GC Extreme and AS5 I want to compare against the SYY-157 after I find out which AIO/fan combo gives the lowest temps. Personally I've had the best results with the Gelid over the years. I want to see what combo performs best against my Cosmos II with a Z690 Steel Legend WiFi/12700K @5.2GHz cooled by a LF II 280 mounted externally with 4 Silver Stone 140mm FHP-141's at full speed (171cfm each) in push/pull using Gelid Extreme. It works great now but when I first built it 6 months ago using a LF II 240, MX-4 and the stock Arctic fans mounted internally I had some thermal throttling issues under load even with the side panels off.


----------



## Mussels (May 23, 2022)

Shrek said:


> What do the military use?


They adopt the "Don't ask don't tell" policy (they'd use products that dont need thermal paste in teh first place)


----------



## Shrek (May 23, 2022)

MachineLearning said:


> Dow Corning TC-5xxx (-5022 example)
> 
> 
> http://www.audentia-gestion.fr/Farnell-PDF/1339822.pdf



"TC-5022 is formulated with advanced silicone fluid that interacts with thermally conductive filler particles to form a highly stable matrix that helps to prevent pump-out and other common failure mechanisms."

I guess pump-out is real.


----------



## Mussels (May 23, 2022)

Shrek said:


> "TC-5022 is formulated with advanced silicone fluid that interacts with thermally conductive filler particles to form a highly stable matrix that helps to prevent pump-out and other common failure mechanisms."
> 
> I guess pump-out is real.


Pump out is absolutely real - we're just using products already designed to fix it (Tight contact with immobile flat surfaces, and we've had decades of thermal pastes used in PC's to improve the formulas)


----------



## Shrek (May 23, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Pump out is absolutely real



I never had a doubt, but some here might.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 23, 2022)

mclaren85 said:


> However it is been speculated that noctuas are notorious for it's pump out effect.


Pump out effect has yet to be proven in all use case scenarios. However, they do dry out and lose some of their effective cooling ability.



freeagent said:


> NTH1 is total shit..


I wouldn't go that far as my own testing showed it was a good performer. It's not the worse, but it's not the best either and as mentioned above, it does dry out.



Mussels said:


> Pump out is absolutely real - we're just using products already designed to fix it (Tight contact with immobile flat surfaces, and we've had decades of thermal pastes used in PC's to improve the formulas)





Shrek said:


> I never had a doubt, but some here might.


Greatly doubt. Highly subjective situation. I've been working in this industry for decades and have worked on tens of thousands of machines and have never seen definitive evidence of it. Not once.


----------



## maxfly (May 23, 2022)

Somewhere out there is a meme of Andy and runny pump out... hehehe.


----------



## mclaren85 (May 23, 2022)

MachineLearning said:


> AFAIK Dow Corning is what's stock on Intel heatsinks or it was for many years


What a great information. Thanks for sharing with us..
I think stock pastes aren't the best, as they are built for everyone, not just overclockers


----------



## cvaldes (May 23, 2022)

Shrek said:


> What do the military use?


What does it matter?

Military devices undergo a far greater range of conditions than a consumer PC including traveling at high altitudes (above 50,000 ft. and below zero temperatures) as well as higher ambient temperatures and extremes of air pressure, humidity, radiation, etc.

Your typical consumer PC enjoys a cushy comfortable existence in the same general range of conditions that humans comfortably tolerate. My house's indoor temperature ranges from 60-80 °F (16-27 °C) throughout the year.

My gaming PCs don't need the same thermal compound as the missile guidance package of an ICBM or a military satellite's CPU. Heck, even the automotive electronics in my Toyota are subject to a far wider range of operating environmental conditions than my PCs.

In any case, what the military uses was probably formulated in 1989 and comes in 5-gallon buckets or 50-gallon drums.


----------



## Shrek (May 23, 2022)

maxfly said:


> Somewhere out there is a meme of Andy and runny pump out... hehehe.


----------



## mclaren85 (May 24, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> My vote is MX-5.


Will you still prefer MX-5 over MX-4? (Without taking into consideration the price)


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2022)

mclaren85 said:


> Will you still prefer MX-5 over MX-4? (Without taking into consideration the price)


I've used both, MX-5 performs a little better, so yes. The comments about it be overly "sticky" are an exaggeration. Yes, it is a bit tacky, but nothing more than many other TIMs.


----------



## mclaren85 (May 24, 2022)

Has anyone used Halnziye paste? It looks like a generic brand but some claims it is performs very well.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2022)

mclaren85 said:


> Has anyone used Halnziye paste? It looks like a generic brand but some claims it is performs very well.


How much? If it's cheap, try it. At the very least, it'll do the job...


----------



## mclaren85 (May 24, 2022)

It is about 5-6 $.
Btw, I've just bought Thermal Grizzly Aeronout from amazon.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 24, 2022)

mclaren85 said:


> Will you still prefer MX-5 over MX-4? (Without taking into consideration the price)


Hi,
Last I looked mx-5 price was dropped on amazon to about 8.us so looks like arctic is dumping stock instead of recalling it since eol.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Last I looked mx-5 price was dropped on amazon to about 8


It's always been $8.99, price hasn't changed...


			https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-MX-5-Conductivity-Non-Conductive-Non-capacitive/dp/B08T5TZ5JL
		



ThrashZone said:


> us so looks like arctic is dumping stock instead of recalling it since eol.


Quit with the disinformation.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 24, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> It's always been $8.99, price hasn't changed...
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/ARCTIC-MX-5-Conductivity-Non-Conductive-Non-capacitive/dp/B08T5TZ5JL
> ...


Hi,
Saw it off the dudes link he posted to arctic website about eol and buy from amazon link there 

It showed 33% off at that time down to under 8.us so arctic posting disinformation links to amazon is all so talk to them about the issue you accuse


			https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08T6D1S73/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=arctic.de-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B08T6D1S73&linkId=938c4513337ee3daa0678abd70f20832&th=1
		


Now third party has it for sell for 35.us


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 24, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Saw it off the dudes link he posted to arctic website about eol and buy from amazon link there
> 
> It showed 33% off at that time down to under 8.us so arctic posting disinformation links to amazon is all so talk to them about the issue you accuse
> ...


My link is from the Amazon Arctic store direct. Third party sellers are just scalping.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 24, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> My link is from the Amazon Arctic store direct. Third party sellers are just scalping.





Boombastik said:


> It seems that arctic mx-5 discontinued.
> End-of-Life
> 
> 
> ...


Hi,
Yep mine was from above link "removed the (-)" so not disinformation just arctic having more than one seller third party or otherwise.

I have no axe to grind
I do have and use acrtic thermal pads which I've found to be good and inexpensive in large sheets so I have all common sizes


----------



## mclaren85 (May 24, 2022)

This is my current temps while using MX-4 . Tomorrow after applying Aeronout, I will post the temps again to compare.
Ps. My cpu is Amd 3900x with stock prism wraith fan (presumably made by cooler master)


----------



## Boombastik (May 25, 2022)

My sapphire rx580 pulse with mx-5 after 6 months....


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 25, 2022)

Boombastik said:


> My sapphire rx580 pulse with mx-5 after 6 months....
> View attachment 248786
> View attachment 248787


Looks ok to me. What were you trying to show here?


----------



## phanbuey (May 25, 2022)

You can see the middle start to dry and crust, and the liquidy stuff around it looks like the paste is starting to separate/degrade.  Could mean +7-10C temperature difference, and a lot more fan noise, vs when first applied.  Most people wouldn't really notice it until it fully crusts up.

Not many pastes survive on a GPU very well beyond 6 months without doing this though.  Even KPX and Kryonaut do this, Noctua NH-1 does it even faster.  That's why all the laptop forums always recommend pastes that spread like a rubber eraser unless you soak them in near boiling water before trying to apply (SYY, TFX, etc.)

EDIT: The new kryonaut extreme also looks promising... soaking the syringe in hot water looks mandatory - stuff comes out like old unprocessed peanut butter.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 25, 2022)

I just remembered I have an unopened Noctua NT-H2 tube, so I will be using that for my build this November (assuming parts to buy are available for a next gen build), SYY will have to wait a bit longer.

@phanbuey what are your thoughts on NT-H2 (not NT-H1)


----------



## Boombastik (May 25, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> You can see the middle start to dry and crust, and the liquidy stuff around it looks like the paste is starting to separate/degrade.  Could mean +7-10C temperature difference, and a lot more fan noise, vs when first applied.  Most people wouldn't really notice it until it fully crusts up.
> 
> Not many pastes survive on a GPU very well beyond 6 months without doing this though.  Even KPX and Kryonaut do this, Noctua NH-1 does it even faster.  That's why all the laptop forums always recommend pastes that spread like a rubber eraser unless you soak them in near boiling water before trying to apply (SYY, TFX, etc.)
> 
> EDIT: The new kryonaut extreme also looks promising... soaking the syringe in hot water looks mandatory - stuff comes out like old unprocessed peanut butter.


In this card i tried now a paste that is very hard, AKASA AK-T565. I will monitor how it will end.
For information deepcool z9 , deepcool g40, mx-4, mx-5 ,  ceramique 2 eventually all failed. (mx-4 one week, mx-5 6 months, deepcoll 2-3 months).
Also the fanny thing is that i found an old tube of mx-1 from pentium 4 era i put in the t420 sandybridge laptop and it was the only paste that it was not degraded. Mx-1 is the same product with shin-etsu g751.
Then they come with mx-2 that is their product.


----------



## phanbuey (May 25, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I just remembered I have an unopened Noctua NT-H2 tube, so I will be using that for my build this November (assuming parts to buy are available for a next gen build), SYY will have to wait a bit longer.
> 
> @phanbuey what are your thoughts on NT-H2 (not NT-H1)


Unfortunately I haven't tried that one and haven't heard much about it.  Looks from a cursory glance it's better than nt-h1 but not a specific reformulation to address longevity - more a reformulation for better thermals over the H1 variant. 

Most of the new pastes from the "spreads easy, no cure, great performance off the bat" style are great for reviews and youtube, the initial performance makes stuff like shin-etsu look like you tried to put toothpaste on your cpu, but after a few months you may need to repaste.


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> Most of the new pastes from the "spreads easy, no cure, great performance off the bat" style are great for reviews and youtube, the initial performance makes stuff like shin-etsu look like you tried to put toothpaste on your cpu, but after a few months you may need to repaste.



I think that is exactly what we are missing, the long-term performance; we judge on that one degree saved.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 25, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I just remembered I have an unopened Noctua NT-H2 tube, so I will be using that for my build this November (assuming parts to buy are available for a next gen build), SYY will have to wait a bit longer.
> 
> @phanbuey what are your thoughts on NT-H2 (not NT-H1)





phanbuey said:


> Unfortunately I haven't tried that one and haven't heard much about it.  Looks from a cursory glance it's better than nt-h1 but not a specific reformulation to address longevity - more a reformulation for better thermals over the H1 variant.
> 
> Most of the new pastes from the "spreads easy, no cure, great performance off the bat" style are great for reviews and youtube, the initial performance makes stuff like shin-etsu look like you tried to put toothpaste on your cpu, but after a few months you may need to repaste.



H2 is even runnier than H1. Noticeably better temps, but probably not what you're looking for in a GPU/laptop application. For CPUs I just don't go out of my way to buy NT-H1 anymore, been going through 3.5g H2 tubes.

That said, I did use it on my laptop and it's not degraded over time - it's just equally mediocre as it was day 1 because of the horrible mounting pressure


----------



## Space Lynx (May 25, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> H2 is even runnier than H1. Noticeably better temps, but probably not what you're looking for in a GPU/laptop application. For CPUs I just don't go out of my way to buy NT-H1 anymore, been going through 3.5g H2 tubes.
> 
> That said, I did use it on my laptop and it's not degraded over time - it's just equally mediocre as it was day 1 because of the horrible mounting pressure



I won't be using it on my laptop, it will be for my next gen desktop build this Fall


----------



## mclaren85 (May 25, 2022)

Well I did test and compare the 2 different pastes, mx-4 vs aeronout. It seems aeronout is full 5 celcius degrees lower than mx4. Can't imagine what would have been if  kryount was used.


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (May 25, 2022)

@CallandorWoT 

I've been working my way through a 10g tube of H2 over the last year without any complaints, but ordered some SYY today because peer pressure.

The longest I've had it installed without a re-paste is 6 months on the 12700k.  Haven't noticed anything change in that time.


----------



## tabascosauz (May 25, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I won't be using it on my laptop, it will be for my next gen desktop build this Fall



then it's a great choice if the price is not a concern



weekendgeek said:


> @CallandorWoT
> 
> I've been working my way through a 10g tube of H2 over the last year without any complaints, but ordered some SYY today because peer pressure.
> 
> The longest I've had it installed without a re-paste is 6 months on the 12700k.  Haven't noticed anything change in that time.



I don't think the degradation part is really a thing on desktop CPUs. Ran NT-H2 up to about 1.5 years without repasting but MX-4 and NT-H1 for years on end at a time, they're all fine, but I know for sure MX-4 is very different on bare GPU die

no offence to the SYY master @freeagent but those two tubes are still lying around. No matter how much hot water soaking and credit card spreading, just couldn't get a decent enough spread to beat a quick NT-H2 job. I think I tried 10 times in one week? Might be useful for a GPU so I keep em


----------



## Shrek (May 25, 2022)

mclaren85 said:


> Well I did test and compare the 2 different pastes, mx-4 vs aeronout. It seems aeronout is full 5 celcius degrees lower than mx4. Can't imagine what would have been if  kryount was used.



GPU temps tend to suggest the room may have been 3-4C warmer between tests


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> then it's a great choice if the price is not a concern
> 
> 
> 
> ...


None taken my man!

They sound like they dried up? My tubes have been pretty easy to spread, my last 30 grams anyway..


----------



## mclaren85 (May 25, 2022)

Shrek said:


> 3.5C warmer between tests


Good catch! After applying Grizzly, I immediately started the windows and run the benchmarks. But I don't think it will affect the net result much.


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (May 25, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I don't think the degradation part is really a thing on desktop CPUs. Ran NT-H2 up to about 1.5 years without repasting but MX-4 and NT-H1 for years on end at a time, they're all fine, but I know for sure MX-4 is very different on bare GPU die
> 
> no offence to the SYY master @freeagent but those two tubes are still lying around. No matter how much hot water soaking and credit card spreading, just couldn't get a decent enough spread to beat a quick NT-H2 job. I think I tried 10 times in one week? Might be useful for a GPU so I keep em



I can totally agree on the lack of degradation for desktop.  Before I dove back into hardware hardcore in late 2020, my previous CPU was an overclocked 2700k from 2012 on the original paste that was included with the Hyper 212 I used.  8 years @ 4.5GHz. 

I've read reviews of the SYY that said the same thing.  It's crazy hot here right now so maybe it arrives pre-softened.  Worst-case, it ends up on the shelf in the spare room with everything else that now looks like a failing tech youtuber's backdrop.


----------



## Vario (May 25, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> Not many pastes survive on a GPU very well beyond 6 months without doing this though.  Even KPX and Kryonaut do this, Noctua NH-1 does it even faster.  That's why all the laptop forums always recommend pastes that spread like a rubber eraser unless you soak them in near boiling water before trying to apply (SYY, TFX, etc.)


I've been running a single application of Arctic Silver 5 on a HD7850 for almost 10 years now with no change in paste.  Temps are the exact same 2012 to 2022.  I know its not trendy anymore to use Arctic Silver 5, but it's extremely stable.


----------



## Bong-Jovi (May 25, 2022)

Why doesn't anyone mention AS-5? I've never had a single issue with it. Been using it for probably a decade now. It's my go-to when I don't have any liquid metal around, which I only get the Thermalright stuff since it's almost half the price of Thermal Grizzly and is probably the exact same shit anyways

edit: Go figure... as I'm writing this post, someone else finally posts about AS-5 lmao


----------



## Vario (May 25, 2022)

Bong-Jovi said:


> Why doesn't anyone mention AS-5? I've never had a single issue with it. Been using it for probably a decade now. It's my go-to when I don't have any liquid metal around, which I only get the Thermalright stuff since it's almost half the price of Thermal Grizzly and is probably the exact same shit anyways


It isn't popular any more because it loses on benchmarks to trendy modern pastes by a margin of error  single degree Celsius. Stuff is fantastically stable though.


----------



## Bong-Jovi (May 25, 2022)

Vario said:


> It isn't popular any more because it loses on benchmarks to trendy modern pastes by a margin of error  single degree Celsius. Stuff is fantastically stable though.


I've had people straight-up tell me it's trash and they would rather use mayonnaise. Those are also the same people who say it's electrically conductive though, so I guess I shouldn't take their opinion too seriously.


----------



## Vario (May 25, 2022)

Bong-Jovi said:


> I've had people straight-up tell me it's trash and they would rather use mayonnaise. Those are also the same people who say it's electrically conductive though, so I guess I shouldn't take their opinion too seriously.


Here is one of the popular "best in category" pastes for most people against Arctic Silver 5.  Wow what a difference!


----------



## freeagent (May 25, 2022)

I used AS5 for at least a decade, probably more.. it’s good stuff. It does lose out to modern pastes though. I still have a tube just in case lol..


----------



## maxfly (May 25, 2022)

Vario said:


> Here is one of the popular "best in category" pastes for most people against Arctic Silver 5.  Wow what a difference!


 If your still rockin a quadcore from 2008 and using that $60 DD tdx block (I've got an AMD version in my junk box) those results look saweet! 
Today? Mmmmnah, nice try.


----------



## LFaWolf (May 25, 2022)

Isn’t arctic silver 5 conductive and you can’t use it on gpu and could also possibly short out your motherboard if you get the paste on the board?


----------



## P4-630 (May 25, 2022)

LFaWolf said:


> Isn’t arctic silver 5 conductive and you can’t use it on gpu and could also possibly short out your motherboard if you get the paste on the board?



Google says:
*Not Electrically Conductive*_: Arctic Silver 5 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity. (While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 5 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads._

I'd say yes.


----------



## Vario (May 25, 2022)

LFaWolf said:


> Isn’t arctic silver 5 conductive and you can’t use it on gpu and could also possibly short out your motherboard if you get the paste on the board?


People make that argument, but other people use liquid metals.  Also, it's not conductive.


P4-630 said:


> Google says:
> *Not Electrically Conductive*_: Arctic Silver 5 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity. (While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 5 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads._
> 
> I'd say yes.


Why would you say yes when the source you quote says no?



maxfly said:


> If your still rockin a quadcore from 2008 and using that $60 DD tdx block (I've got an AMD version in my junk box) those results look saweet!
> Today? Mmmmnah, nice try.


is this a better try?














						Best Thermal Paste for CPUs 2022: 90 Pastes Tested and Ranked
					

The right thermal paste will improve performance.




					www.tomshardware.com


----------



## LFaWolf (May 26, 2022)

I looked it up since I am back on my PC -
"Not Electrically Conductive:
Arctic Silver 5 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity.
(While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 5 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is very slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.)"

Source- http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm

So I would still avoid it, since MX-4 is equivalent, if not better, and not thermally capacitive.


----------



## Vario (May 26, 2022)

LFaWolf said:


> I looked it up since I am back on my PC -
> "Not Electrically Conductive:
> Arctic Silver 5 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity.
> (While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 5 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is very slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.)"
> ...


Stuff has been around forever, has it EVER happened to anyone?


----------



## Mussels (May 26, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Pump out effect has yet to be proven in all use case scenarios. However, they do dry out and lose some of their effective cooling ability.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't go that far as my own testing showed it was a good performer. It's not the worse, but it's not the best either and as mentioned above, it does dry out.
> ...


You missed the point:

I never said pump out is an issue, a concern, or a problem for PC builders.
What i said is: Pump out is a real, physical phenomenon that's already been dealt with at a design level.

Go back to CPU's without an IHS and try the runnier pastes, theres a reason OEM's used the chewing gum crap - so it wouldnt simply melt off the side from our poorly mounted coolers of that era
And yes they were 100% poorly mounted, when you could chip a die by putting it on slightly off center and needed the force of an angry rhinoceros and the precision of a dentist to add and remove

as coolers and mounting have changed over the years, so have thermal compounds. Havent we seen that in this thread, where certain compounds just absolutely suck for laptops and naked dies despite being great in other situations?


----------



## LFaWolf (May 26, 2022)

Vario said:


> Stuff has been around forever, has it EVER happened to anyone?


Maybe I don't know. But if it has metal (silver?) traces in it I am going to avoid it and stick with MX-4. Not going to take the chance.


----------



## freeagent (May 26, 2022)

Vario said:


> Stuff has been around forever, has it EVER happened to anyone?


Never had a problem. Even when I was sloppy when I was new. S462 had a bare die and pins lol.. no problems ever.


----------



## maxfly (May 26, 2022)

Vario said:


> People make that argument, but other people use liquid metals.  Also, it's not conductive.
> 
> Why would you say yes when the source you quote says no?
> 
> ...


Ab so loot lee, lol. Budget pastes have always had a place in every toolbox. I simply found it odd to use such an old block and test as an example of AS5s efficacy. You obviously love your tim and that's cool man, you do you! I like many others, didn't and don't like their wishy washy conductive/capacitive statement with my bare cpus, gpus and chipsets. Fortunately there was/is an easy solution back then and much more so now. Switch, to Ceramique a guaranteed non conductive tim then(that performed a bit better and didn't freeze). Or to something like MX-4 now. Thermal paste is an easy cheap temp improvement and nearly all of it is non conductive nowadays, or its not. Its generally not hard to find out as its a big marketing point.
 As far as, has anyone ever damaged anything with AS5? Does it matter? Why worry about it when there's bucket loads of better, guaranteed non conductive options to choose from? If there's even the slightest chance that AS5 might damage their gear most people will use something else that doesn't purposefully try to confuse them with the conductivity, or capacitance silliness. Its a complete non issue now. LFaWolfs choice to use MX-4 speaks directly to that point.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 26, 2022)

Mussels said:


> What i said is: Pump out is a real, physical phenomenon that's already been dealt with at a design level.


Fair enough.


Mussels said:


> Go back to CPU's without an IHS and try the runnier pastes, theres a reason OEM's used the chewing gum crap


I always wondered about that. Was serious in saying I've never seen pumpout, even back in the socket A & socket 370 bare die days.



LFaWolf said:


> Isn’t arctic silver 5 conductive


No it isn't. BITD it had a capacitive effect but it was uncommon and only happened if excess AS5 got on electrically conductive parts and bridged them. Using only enough AS5 to do the job was the best solution. The current formulation is absent that capacitance effect and AS5 is still an excellent performing TIM.


----------



## Pictus (May 26, 2022)

I am using Alseye T9+ *Platinum*, at the time it was the only potentially good
paste quick available "at hand" here in Brazil, I prefer it over the Halnziye Hy-p13.




Composition: Silicone 10%, Carbon 45% and Metal Oxide 45%
Temperature Resistance: -30°C ~ 280°C
Thermal Conductivity: 13.5 w/m-k
Viscosity at Low Strain Rate 1,200 Pa-s
Viscosity at High Strain Rate 100 Pa-s
Speciﬁc Gravity 2.6
Volatile Content, 48 hours at 125°C 0.02%
Thermal Resistance at 25 N/cm² 0.04 °C-cm²/W
Bond Line Thickness at 25 N/cm² 0.02mm (0.0008 in)

Here is a Ryzen 5600X + Thermalright FC140, the foot/plate of the FC140 is a bit
convex, so I lapped just bit to make it more flat to better fit with the 5600X.
After almost 6 months, I decided to check visually(the TMP was OK) if the lapping
was correct and the state of the paste.
Well, the paste was +- ok, but at the highest pressure points it was drier.
So I decided to make an experience...
Removed the paste in the CPU/Cooler and mixed it with a bit of Krytox grease, it
is the grease/oil we use to lubricate keyboard switches


			https://www.krytox.com/en/-/media/files/krytox/krytox-product-overview.pdf
		

The mix result is more viscous/dense than the original, lets hope Krytox will
last longer than silicone...


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 26, 2022)

Pictus said:


> I am using Alseye T9+ *Platinum*, at the time it was the only potentially good
> paste quick available "at hand" here in Brazil, I prefer it over the Halnziye Hy-p13.
> 
> 
> ...


Those numbers look good. Would be interesting to test it.

EDIT:
Very pricey though. $20 for 2G is not very competitive.





						NeweggBusiness - 9siv2yudcu2132
					

NeweggBusiness offers the best prices on computer parts, laptop computers, digital cameras, electronics and more with fast shipping and top-rated customer service.  Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.neweggbusiness.com
				



$9 is better, but still not a great price.


			https://www.amazon.com/Compound-ALSEYE-High-Performance-Insulation-Processor/dp/B085DP1ZZT


----------



## Vario (May 26, 2022)

maxfly said:


> Ab so loot lee, lol. Budget pastes have always had a place in every toolbox. I simply found it odd to use such an old block and test as an example of AS5s efficacy. You obviously love your tim and that's cool man, you do you! I like many others, didn't and don't like their wishy washy conductive/capacitive statement with my bare cpus, gpus and chipsets. Fortunately there was/is an easy solution back then and much more so now. Switch, to Ceramique a guaranteed non conductive tim then(that performed a bit better and didn't freeze). Or to something like MX-4 now. Thermal paste is an easy cheap temp improvement and nearly all of it is non conductive nowadays, or its not. Its generally not hard to find out as its a big marketing point.
> As far as, has anyone ever damaged anything with AS5? Does it matter? Why worry about it when there's bucket loads of better, guaranteed non conductive options to choose from? If there's even the slightest chance that AS5 might damage their gear most people will use something else that doesn't purposefully try to confuse them with the conductivity, or capacitance silliness. Its a complete non issue now. LFaWolfs choice to use MX-4 speaks directly to that point.


I chose that particular benchmark for two reasons 1) it was a techpowerup review and 2) it compared directly with a standard "good brand product".  The result is even closer on the Tom's Hardware benchmark.  The reason I use AS5 is simple, I still have a couple tubes of it from 2004, and it still performs well, so I keep using it.  It's a very stable product.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 26, 2022)

Vario said:


> The reason I use AS5 is simple, I still have a couple tubes of it from 2004, and it still performs well, so I keep using it. It's a very stable product.


Keep using it, no reason not too.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 26, 2022)

Bong-Jovi said:


> Why doesn't anyone mention AS-5? I've never had a single issue with it. Been using it for probably a decade now. It's my go-to when I don't have any liquid metal around, which I only get the Thermalright stuff since it's almost half the price of Thermal Grizzly and is probably the exact same shit anyways
> 
> edit: Go figure... as I'm writing this post, someone else finally posts about AS-5 lmao


Hi,
Not trendy 
Think thermal grizzly hydronaut is the only good version they have "water blocks" or at least never read or had it scratch my blocks or cpu's 

Think application matters more than the latest and supposed to be greatest paste, hell mx-4 2019 is okay paste still mx-5 was about the same just green

I've personally had best results with nt-h1 than nt-h2 
Bad thing about nt-h2 is inflated price for worthless alcohol wipes which are very weak and take for ever to dry must be 50% or something.


----------



## Pictus (May 28, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Those numbers look good. Would be interesting to test it.
> 
> EDIT:
> Very pricey though. $20 for 2G is not very competitive.
> ...



Look what I found... 








						1.95US $ 50% OFF|17w/mk Lk-17 2g 5g Super High Performance Thermal Grease For Gpu Graphics Cpu Cooler, Ic, Lcd Led, Electronic Product Graphics - Fans & Cooling - AliExpress
					

Smarter Shopping, Better Living!  Aliexpress.com




					www.aliexpress.com


----------



## Shrek (May 28, 2022)

I still don't get 'more thermal conductivity is better'

See attachment: with 20 W/m.k I get 0.3C drop, with 5 W/m.k would give just over 1C drop

I would much rather have longevity than one degree saved.



Pictus said:


> Bond Line Thickness at 25 N/cm² 0.02mm (0.0008 in)



I actually used a lot thicker in my calculations.


----------



## Pictus (May 28, 2022)

Shrek said:


> I would much rather have longevity than one degree saved.



I also prefer more longevity, but any improvement in temperature is always welcome.


----------



## LFaWolf (May 28, 2022)

Pictus said:


> Look what I found...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you sure that is not a counterfeit?


----------



## Shrek (May 28, 2022)

Pictus said:


> I also prefer more longevity, but any improvement in temperature is always welcome.



True, but for me cost is also a factor; 2g does not seem a lot.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 28, 2022)

Shrek said:


> True, but for me cost is also a factor; 2g does not seem a lot.


It isn't. I don't generally buy anything unless at least 5 or 6 grams is included.


----------



## Pictus (May 28, 2022)

LFaWolf said:


> Are you sure that is not a counterfeit?


The Alseye T9+ Platinum is not counterfeit.
The LK-17 we will only know by testing...


----------



## Borc (May 30, 2022)

mclaren85 said:


> Has anyone used Halnziye paste? It looks like a generic brand but some claims it is performs very well.



I tested several of these Halnziye pastes on my notebook and to be honest I don't like them. They are on the low viscous side, they all struggled on my notebook CPU. Some of them are even worse than the MX-5. The best from them (Halnziye HY-P13) is in the average. On a desktop CPU HY-P13 should be fine, it should work much better there. Halnziye HY-P13 is used from many other brands by the way, for example IONZ IZP14. You can see in the albestech test this paste worked quite good on a desktop CPU. 

As for notebooks I believe Honeywell PTM7950 might be the best solution in the market at the moment. I haven't tried this yet because it is hard to buy. However, from the results and comparisons I have seen I believe it can beat the best other pastes in the market. There is a paste and pad version, most of the users on reddit did use the pad version with good results. It's unclear which version works better if they are not performing the same.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 30, 2022)

Borc said:


> Some of them are even worse than the MX-5.


You just had throw that in didn't you? 

Once again, MX-5 is an *excellent performer*. Your experience was *not* the same as everyone else.


----------



## Chomiq (May 30, 2022)

So is it discontinued or not? Should I not bother with it and return my tube and use mx-4 instead?


----------



## ThrashZone (May 30, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> So is it discontinued or not? Should I not bother with it and return my tube and use mx-4 instead?


Hi,
Yes it is EOL same as discontinued 
They did not recall mx-5 but did I believe offer refund or replacement.

Whether you get some at mx-5 now at discounted price is up to you 
It would be a pass for myself 
Wait for mx-5 2022 label similar to what they did with mx-4 2019 version.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 30, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> So is it discontinued or not?


Seemingly so.


Chomiq said:


> Should I not bother with it and return my tube and use mx-4 instead?


Keep it, use it. It's excellent.


----------



## Borc (May 30, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> You just had throw that in didn't you?
> 
> Once again, MX-5 is an *excellent performer*. Your experience was *not* the same as everyone else.




I'm not the only one:


> Cinebench R20:
> 
> In green, *MX5*
> 
> ...




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/LenovoLegion/comments/rn3xhg


Keep in mind most users refer to desktop tests where it doesn't matter much which paste. It can be completely different on a laptop CPU depending on the heatsink contact and pressure, die size and some other things. A low viscous paste may struggle and I can tell you many pastes struggled on my laptop, it isn't MX-5 exclusive. I tested close to 60 thermal pastes. For a laptop I highly recommend to not buy Arctic MX-5.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 30, 2022)

Borc said:


> I'm not the only one:
> Back to stock TIM, Honeywell TPM 7950 from LenovoLegion


You're in the severe minority. You simply refuse to accept that fact and thus with your continued bemoaning..



Borc said:


> Keep in mind most users refer to desktop tests where it doesn't matter much which paste. It can be completely different on a laptop CPU depending on the heatsink contact and pressure, die size and some other things. A low viscous paste may struggle and I can tell you many pastes struggled on my laptop, it isn't MX-5 exclusive. I tested close to 60 thermal pastes. For a laptop I highly recommend to not buy Arctic MX-5.


Incorrect. As has been mentioned, I have been using MX-5 on laptops as well. It works perfectly.


----------



## Borc (May 30, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> You're in the severe minority. You simply refuse to accept that fact and thus with your continued bemoaning..
> 
> 
> Incorrect. As has been mentioned, I have been using MX-5 on laptops as well. It works perfectly.



You are right that laptop tests are a minority, that's actually true and I never denied this! It's the other way around you simply cannot accept other opinions/experiences.

And what is incorrect? What I'm telling is my experience based on many hours of tests on a laptop. Even if you don't like it you should accept it.

Not that your laptop matters for my laptop but it appears to me you never compared several pastes and you can't know how MX-5 exactly performs. And honestly no matter what you will never say something bad about MX-5, your defending is hilarious. It's just a paste, stay calm. 

Beside all of this it is widely known for advanced users that on a laptop chip a more viscous paste is recommended because the heatsink contact might be subpar and the pressure low.


----------



## MachineLearning (May 30, 2022)

The two folks who care about MX-5 the most - in very different directions - seem to have found one another. What are the odds?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 30, 2022)

Borc said:


> It's the other way around you simply cannot accept other opinions/experiences.


Oh, I accept your experience, but do NOT accept that your experience is the norm. So quit the complaining.


Borc said:


> Not that your laptop matters for my laptop but it appears to me you never compared several pastes and you can't know how MX-5 exactly performs. And honestly no matter what you will never say something bad about MX-5, your defending is hilarious. It's just a paste, stay calm.


You fail to understand, I own a PC shop. We have been using MX-5 on everything we repaste since shortly after I did my testing, including laptops which represents about 40% of our business. We have had NONE of those laptops come back having thermal problems. Not one.



MachineLearning said:


> The two folks who care about MX-5 the most - in very different directions - seem to have found one another. What are the odds?


The difference is I'm a practiced scientist and make conclusions based on merit and evidence. In the case of this TIM, after much testing the conclusion is that it performs exceptionally. The opposition are basing their opinion on an experience with a single sample. They are making a judgment based on a limited perspective.


----------



## Mussels (May 31, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> You just had throw that in didn't you?
> 
> Once again, MX-5 is an *excellent performer*. Your experience was *not* the same as everyone else.


MX 5 Can be an excellent performer. It can also be shit.
Not everyone had the same experiences - or they wouldnt have EOL'd it so fast.


----------



## SpittinFax (May 31, 2022)

Mussels said:


> MX 5 Can be an excellent performer. It can also be shit.
> Not everyone had the same experiences - or they wouldnt have EOL'd it so fast.



I didn't know they discontinued it. They mention poor consistency (oil separation) which means I definitely got a dud tube second time around, but I couldn't care less about fighting the RMA battle for a refund of $8. The consistency was crap but I just blended it with the spatula and thermals seem good.

That's a real bummer if they feel the need to kill the product completely, guess I'll need to go back to MX-2 or NT-H1. Personally I've found MX-4 to be a weak performer so it doesn't really interest me anymore.


----------



## Chomiq (May 31, 2022)




----------



## tabascosauz (May 31, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> View attachment 249403



Uhhhh that's not an upgrade or even a sidegrade, Arctic

Regardless of how one feels about MX-5, MX-4 is not a performer lol


----------



## lowrider_05 (May 31, 2022)

FYI, as far as i know, these are the Producers of the Arctic paste and i use their own EC360 Ruby Paste for a lot of applications and im very positive, that this paste is equal or better then MX4/5 and costs about the same: https://www.coolsierra.com/collections/thermal-paste

(I have no connection to this coperation, i just wanted to share my findings.)


----------



## Chomiq (May 31, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Uhhhh that's not an upgrade or even a sidegrade, Arctic
> 
> Regardless of how one feels about MX-5, MX-4 is not a performer lol


F# it. MX-5 will be here tomorrow together with 5800X, at this point I'll just do a dry run of MX-5 on some old Celeron to see how it spreads before deciding to use it on 5800X. If it spreads like sh*t on celeron IHS then I'll request a refund from Arctic and look for something else.


----------



## Ferrum Master (May 31, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> If it spreads like sh*t on celeron


It would be like spreading sh*t on sh*t? Well actually if it spreads like sh*t, would it it be really bad?   

But as we see not always the new is the best, especially for TIM materials. Both MX-5 and Kryonaut got rather mixed reviews and are flawed. Why are you really concerned about the spread really, just draw your X shape and put the cooler on and everything is fine. If not, just warm up the syringe in a cup of hot water for a few minutes.


----------



## MachineLearning (May 31, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Uhhhh that's not an upgrade or even a sidegrade, Arctic
> 
> Regardless of how one feels about MX-5, MX-4 is not a performer lol


Honestly this thread has me convinced to never touch MX-4 again and just stick with MX-2. It's not worth the price increase. Doesn't perform much different in my testing.


----------



## Sithaer (May 31, 2022)

One thing for sure, ppl take this thermal paste thing far more seriously than I ever will/care about.

Pretty much always used MX-4 since it exist and I had zero problems with it nor my bro who also built PCs for friends,etc.
Can't be bothered with 1-2 celsius differences between most _'top/best seller' _pastes, at that point price is what matters to me.
Never had MX 4 dry out on my CPUs either or degrade in a noticeable way.

On my previous RX 570 I did the repasting with GD-900 from Aliexpress _'the older better version not the new'_ and it worked just fine before I sold it on the second hand market and the new owner had no complaints either.

Currently I have Frost X25 on my CPU that came with my ID cooler, so far it seems to be good enough for my use case but I think I will keep using this in the future cause why not._ 'kinda reminds me of MX 4 actually, the overall quality'_

Can't say much about laptops so I wont get into that but if it matters more for those then fair enough.


----------



## Borc (May 31, 2022)

lowrider_05 said:


> FYI, as far as i know, these are the Producers of the Arctic paste and i use their own EC360 Ruby Paste for a lot of applications and im very positive, that this paste is equal or better then MX4/5 and costs about the same: https://www.coolsierra.com/collections/thermal-paste
> 
> (I have no connection to this coperation, i just wanted to share my findings.)




I tried EC360 Ruby some time ago. From the consistency/viscosity and my performance results it's very similar to IONZ IZP14/Halnziye HY-P13. Most specs are identical as well, I believe it's the same as Halnziye HY-P13.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 31, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> F# it. MX-5 will be here tomorrow together with 5800X, at this point I'll just do a dry run of MX-5 on some old Celeron to see how it spreads before deciding to use it on 5800X. If it spreads like sh*t on celeron IHS then I'll request a refund from Arctic and look for something else.


Hi,
I'd message, is the replacement mx-4 "2019" or just vanilla mx-4
2019 so is okay might as well just hop on the 2019 version and skip the replacement process.

This is probably the least expensive item ever argued about 



tabascosauz said:


> Uhhhh that's not an upgrade or even a sidegrade, Arctic
> 
> Regardless of how one feels about MX-5, MX-4 is not a performer lol


2019 version is okay.


----------



## Shrek (May 31, 2022)

Sithaer said:


> On my previous RX 570 I did the repasting with GD-900 from Aliexpress _'the older better version not the new'_ and it worked just fine



Did I hear 'GD900'?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 31, 2022)

Mussels said:


> MX 5 Can be an excellent performer. It can also be shit.
> Not everyone had the same experiences - or they wouldnt have EOL'd it so fast.


Yeah, that's fair. But that's not what Borc was implying, thus my response.



SpittinFax said:


> I didn't know they discontinued it. They mention poor consistency (oil separation) which means I definitely got a dud tube second time around, but I couldn't care less about fighting the RMA battle for a refund of $8. The consistency was crap but I just blended it with the spatula and thermals seem good.
> 
> That's a real bummer if they feel the need to kill the product completely, guess I'll need to go back to MX-2 or NT-H1. Personally I've found MX-4 to be a weak performer so it doesn't really interest me anymore.
> 
> ...





Chomiq said:


> View attachment 249403


This was the wrong move by ArcticCooling. Acknowledging the problem and fixing it is the right move. But to discontinue it? Maybe Thrash is right, perhaps a revision is incoming.

MX-4 is an good replacement, gets the job done well. I would rather they just fix the problem.


----------



## ThrashZone (May 31, 2022)

Hi,
Only 1 year and tried two batches, it is best to rename the product and try to move forward.

I doubt I got a bad first batch 
Besides being green mx-5 was as wet as mx-4 2019 and frankly performed the same to on my x299 and z490 systems.


----------



## Sithaer (May 31, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Did I hear 'GD900'?



I have the big tube version but yea thats the thing, it performs close to the MX 4 from what I know and noticed myself. _'there are some reviews around'_
Not sure about longevity but it held up pretty well on my RX 570.

It was dirt cheap at the time of buying, actually it was my brother who bought it out of curiosity.


----------



## Shrek (May 31, 2022)

I am most grateful that your brother did get some; few out here seem willing to try it.

OK, I can understand why some people won't try 40% diaper cream (for comparison not real usage), but GD900 (not GD900-1) is great stuff; $4 for 30g with postage included.

For me the virtue of maximum strength diaper cream is that it illustrates the dangers of just trusting short term results and is not at the level of mustard or toothpaste as it contains 40% zinc oxide. Then again if someone asked me to test their CPU, why waste expensive thermal grease; diaper cream would be just fine for this purpose.

What ever happened to the copper based anti-seize grease?


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 2, 2022)

Quick test on old celeron:




Just a tiny drop, no oil separation at all.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 2, 2022)

Shrek said:


> OK, I can understand why some people won't try 40% diaper cream


Because it's little more than a curiosity and most people are just too busy to give it a go.

But no one is stopping you from doing your own testing and posting the photo's, screenshots and results.


----------



## Boombastik (Jun 9, 2022)

Boombastik said:


> In this card i tried now a paste that is very hard, AKASA AK-T565. I will monitor how it will end.
> For information deepcool z9 , deepcool g40, mx-4, mx-5 ,  ceramique 2 eventually all failed. (mx-4 one week, mx-5 6 months, deepcoll 2-3 months).
> Also the fanny thing is that i found an old tube of mx-1 from pentium 4 era i put in the t420 sandybridge laptop and it was the only paste that it was not degraded. Mx-1 is the same product with shin-etsu g751.
> Then they come with mx-2 that is their product.


For information only. The akasa ak-t565 is a  good product, a click above the other that i tried. It pump out a little in a rx580 gpu. It can do 3d mark stress test at 75 celsiou without throttling and fan at 60%.
Now i try the akasa AK-TC5026 that is the same product with dowsil tc-5026. Now first day it can do 3d mark stress test at 75 celsiou and fan at 42%.


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## cvaldes (Jun 9, 2022)

Chomiq said:


> Quick test on old celeron:
> View attachment 249653
> 
> Just a tiny drop, no oil separation at all.
> ...


First of all, you are conducting your experiment at room temperature. That is not the typical operating environment of a CPU.

The oil separation is probably happening at higher temperatures and might be exacerbated by temperature deltas between high operating temperature and when the system is turned off.

The Core i7 in my Mac mini 2018 will reach almost 100 °C, the maximum operating temperature of the CPU. Apple designed this system to use the CPU's full TDP. What is the ambient temperature in the room at night? Maybe 20 °C thus an eighty degree range. And Apple quotes a lower temperature for storage.

According to Arctic's note, this oil separation is causing premature drying of the thermal compound. This likely happens after extended usage, not something that happens immediately after application otherwise they would have noted it in their lab tests with prototype pastes.

Remember that thermal grease isn't the only thing that suffers from oil separation.

A slab of bacon has been hanging in room for months and months without oil separation. Put that slab on your kitchen counter overnight. Nothing will happen. Put that slab in roasting pan and throw into a 90 °C (195 °F) oven overnight. There will be a puddle of oil. That's oil separation. Throw a chocolate bar into the refrigerator for a few weeks; that white bloom on the outside is cocoa butter that has migrated to the exterior.

If you cook or bake regularly, you'll be quite familiar with oil separation and how materials vary in behavior based on temperature and age. Heavy cream whips better when very cold but egg whites are better when warmed up. In fact, older egg whites are better for whipping up than whites from freshly laid eggs. There's a lot of chemistry and physics involved in cooking; a good cook is a keen observer even if they don't have a chemistry or physics degree.


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## Pictus (Jun 9, 2022)

Someday I will make my own thermal paste. 
It will be a mix of Krytox + Graphene powder.


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## TheEugeneKam (Jun 9, 2022)

Sad about mx-5. My opinion is I think it got so much bad press, they just pulled the plug with everyone avoiding it just to be safe.

I tried two different tunes of TFX on my MBP 2016 and temps keep going back to a 100 even with a custom fan profile after about 2 months, same with master gel maker, all Noctua pastes and another one that I can't recall at the moment.

Just ordered SYY 157, mx-5 and TF8 as I have seen good results with other than TFX.

Which one yall think I should try first with the best chance of success. The heat sync on mac requires like an hour as it's on the other side of the logic board and takes ages to take everything apart.

Anyone has any good experience with macs specifically as the airflow is absolute trash in the intel models.

UPDATE: 
So I got MX-5 in main first. Looks like a good batch to me. It is both easier and worse to work with as it's more fluid than TFX. It's really stringy, so I had to use the ice cream cone method not to get strings of paste all over the place. 

Had some time to do a fresh repaste on my work Dell machine as it takes a few minutes to do. So far performance is actually 1 degree lower than fresh TFX and 10 degrees better than the TFX 4-month-old TFX. It seems to transfer heat faster maybe as my fresh TFX application did thermal throttle by 2 percent running aida64 for the first few seconds, no such thing with this paste. 

In summary, my temps went from 80-81 to 79-80 with mx-5. Not sure how it will hold up, but tfx certainly didn't.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 9, 2022)

TheEugeneKam said:


> Sad about mx-5. My opinion is I think it got so much bad press, they just pulled the plug with everyone avoiding it just to be safe.
> 
> I tried two different tunes of TFX on my MBP 2016 and temps keep going back to a 100 even with a custom fan profile after about 2 months, same with master gel maker, all Noctua pastes and another one that I can't recall at the moment.
> 
> ...



Hmm, I never thought about this because I have never used macbooks... makes sense though if you know what you are doing and have the tools to do it. I honestly have no idea, honestly all of them will probably be within 1-2 celsius of each other so it doesn't matter which you go. I'd recommend use the mx-5, not sure why you bought so many if you don't intend to test them all


----------



## TheEugeneKam (Jun 9, 2022)

I have 3 desktops in the house, and I build a bunch of my buddies as they are getting to a couple of years old so I will use the paste for that, no paste wasted! I'll do some more tests with other pastes shortly as my work laptop loves to run warm with me jumping from meeting to meeting while running code and doing data things. so im sure if mx-5 does pump out it will become obvious pretty quickly.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 9, 2022)

TheEugeneKam said:


> I have 3 desktops in the house, and I build a bunch of my buddies as they are getting to a couple of years old so I will use the paste for that, no paste wasted! I'll do some more tests with other pastes shortly as my work laptop loves to run warm with me jumping from meeting to meeting while running code and doing data things. so im sure if mx-5 does pump out it will become obvious pretty quickly.



I'd use mx-5 for macbook, and syy 157 for gaming desktop. again. it doesn't matter though probably.


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## P4-630 (Jun 9, 2022)

I use Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme, the nice pink bubblegum stuff, seems it's working fine though.


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## Shrek (Jun 9, 2022)

TheEugeneKam said:


> I have 3 desktops in the house, and I build a bunch of my buddies as they are getting to a couple of years old so I will use the paste for that, no paste wasted! I'll do some more tests with other pastes shortly as my work laptop loves to run warm with me jumping from meeting to meeting while running code and doing data things. so im sure if mx-5 does pump out it will become obvious pretty quickly.



The DOWSIL TC-5026 data (referenced in the post above) needed about 9000 cycles before things stop changing; took them 9 weeks using 10 min cycles


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> First of all, you are conducting your experiment at room temperature. That is not the typical operating environment of a CPU.


When you start out with things like this, you immediately disqualify anything that follows. PC's, the VAST majority of the time, are operating at "room" temps. And for the record, oil "seperation" doesn't happen until well above 150C for most substances that would be used in a PC/technology application. It's a chemistry thing.



Boombastik said:


> For information only. The akasa ak-t565 is a  good product, a click above the other that i tried. It pump out a little in a rx580 gpu. It can do 3d mark stress test at 75 celsiou without throttling and fan at 60%.
> Now i try the akasa AK-TC5026 that is the same product with dowsil tc-5026. Now first day it can do 3d mark stress test at 75 celsiou and fan at 42%.
> 
> View attachment 250386


That looks interesting. Would you have a link for that screenshot?


----------



## Shrek (Jun 9, 2022)

DOWSIL TC-5026 Thermally Conductive Compound


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## Count von Schwalbe (Jun 9, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> When you start out with things like this, you immediately disqualify anything that follows. PC's, the VAST majority of the time, are operating at "room" temps.


Not to start an argument, but I would recommend rereading that. It spreads well at 72 degrees, but a product with *potential* separation issues *may* not see this issue until the paste (not the room) experiences higher temperatures.


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## Shrek (Jun 9, 2022)

$10 for 3.5g
Dow Corning TC 5026 Thermally Conductive Compound 3.5g - modDIY.com

$880 a kg
Dowsil TC-5026 Thermally Conductive Compound 1 kg Can (krayden.com)


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## P4-630 (Jun 9, 2022)

Shrek said:


> DOWSIL TC-5026 $880 a kg
> 
> Dowsil TC-5026 Thermally Conductive Compound 1 kg Can (krayden.com)



Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme $8500 a kg

(no idea what to do with 1kg TIM though...)


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2022)

Shrek said:


> DOWSIL TC-5026 Thermally Conductive Compound


Interesting.


Count von Schwalbe said:


> Not to start an argument, but I would recommend rereading that. It spreads well at 72 degrees, but a product with *potential* separation issues *may* not see this issue until the paste (not the room) experiences higher temperatures.


No CPU is ever going to get hot enough to cause "oil separation" for a properly engineered TIM, or even some of the cheap stuff. It just doesn't happen like that.



P4-630 said:


> (no idea what to do with 1kg TIM though...)


Right? I don't think I've used that much TIM collectively over the space of my career/life.


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## TheEugeneKam (Jun 9, 2022)

So, decided to skip leg day as everyone else does and tore the MacBook apart. The sustained temperature for the idle is about the same as aged TFX. however playing back some 4k footage, last night I was hitting 100 almost instantly. after mx-5 im hitting 81. So far at least 20 degrees difference in bursty workflow. Let's see how long this will take to pump out. Also, i don't know what to do with 1kg of paste. I got like 50Gs and am already giving some away to homies to use.

So far it looks like mx-5 performs on par with fresh TFX within margin of error. 1 degree. Let's see if it lasts.


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## Shrek (Jun 9, 2022)

Anyone going to compare the $10 (3.5g) TC-5026 to MX-5?

TC-5026 seems cheaper


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## Count von Schwalbe (Jun 9, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> No CPU is ever going to get hot enough to cause "oil separation" for a properly engineered TIM, or even some of the cheap stuff.


Absolutely! There just seems to be concern that the production is not always up to engineering spec, that's all.


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## cvaldes (Jun 10, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> When you start out with things like this, you immediately disqualify anything that follows. PC's, the VAST majority of the time, are operating at "room" temps.


You don't get it, do you?

When the thermal paste is applied on a cold CPU, yes, both are at room temperature. Within seconds of turning on the computer, the CPU is already above room temperature. That heat transfers to the IHS as well as the exterior thermal solution (pad, grease, heatsink, waterblock, maybe a combination of many).

Arctic MX-5 does not remain at room temperature on a CPU in operation.

Go ahead and fire up a typical contemporary desktop PC with a bare CPU. I bet you the computer tries to shut itself down in a minute or two. And please feel free to touch the bare CPU just before it does. Leave your finger on there for a few seconds. I'm sure the sensation will be one that you richly deserve.

Then take your finger off the CPU and use it to operate a laser thermometer. Point it at the ready-to-shutdown CPU and measure the temperature. That would be the temperature of a thermal grease applied to that surface.



lexluthermiester said:


> And for the record, oil "seperation" doesn't happen until well above 150C for most substances that would be used in a PC/technology application. It's a chemistry thing.


*Unfortunately, Arctic selected an oil for MX-5 that does separate below 150C.* I'm sure they didn't mean to but the crux of the problem is they did. Arctic admitted it themselves and they deliberately put the product into EOL status.

I didn't tell Arctic they made a bad product. They told us they made a bad product.

And it was probably mostly a financial decision. What is a tube of MX-5 at retail? About $8? What are COGS? Let's say $5. So Arctic has a gross margin of $3 per tube (let's remove wholesale distribution out of the equation). But every time there's an MX-5 RMA, the administrative cost (replacement product, staff salaries, shipping and logistics) to send out a replacement tube is probably around $18-20. So all of a sudden, Arctic needs to sell 6-7 more tubes of MX-5 to cover the expense of just one RMA.

Arctic probably has a good idea of the failure rate of MX-5 now based on more extended testing in their own labs and their RMA volume. Continuing to sell MX-5 likely pointed to continued expense and headaches for Arctic so they killed it off. Themselves.

The fact that you have not seen problems with your own tubes of MX-5 is irrelevant. Arctic acknowledged the problem and decided that killing of their own product was the best way to handle it.

Unfortunately Chomiq's test was useless. I can spread a paste with oil in it at room temperature and not see any oil separation. But if that paste changes temperatures, it can change and sometimes this leads to oil separation. If you ever spend any time in the kitchen, you'd know this.

Chomiq could have spread peanut butter, Nutella or mayonnaise on the CPU and not see fat separation. Great. That doesn't mean fat separation can't occur at a different temperature.

Could we expect to see oil separation from a CPU in operation using Nutella as thermal grease? I'm sure most people here would probably say yes. Could we expect to see it from a CPU using MX-5 as thermal grease? Most people at the start of this thread (March 2021) would have said no, but over time, more and more people did. In fact, so did Arctic eventually.

Maybe you're frustrated that Arctic killed off a thermal grease that you liked. Well Arctic liked it too (and the revenue it generated) until the RMAs started piling up.

Ultimately Arctic did the right thing: take a defective product off the market.

My guess is some day Arctic will launch MX-6 but I bet they will test for oil separation very, Very, VERY thoroughly before they do.


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## Jism (Jun 10, 2022)

Washer mod (CPU) + MX5 + 360mm AIO 6 fans in Push/Pull = win.


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## P4-630 (Jun 10, 2022)

Jism said:


> View attachment 250453View attachment 250454
> 
> Washer mod (CPU) + MX5 + 360mm AIO 6 fans in Push/Pull = win.



I got good temps without it but my motherboard has a backplate, that can also help.

What CPU you got?


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## TheEugeneKam (Jun 10, 2022)

Wow, MX-5 is truly an astounding product! Pumped out literally in hours. I'm already back to 95C. I think SYY is the next one I'm going to try today or tomorrow.


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## freeagent (Jun 10, 2022)

TheEugeneKam said:


> Wow, MX-5 is truly an astounding product! Pumped out literally in hours. I'm already back to 95C. I think SYY is the next one I'm going to try today or tomorrow.


Impressive..

I am surprised with your TFX results.. SYY should work well. Dont plant the cooler on right away, let it sit for a few minutes and then mount it. It is pretty decent stuff, I thought TFX was pretty good, better than SYY.. but not by much.. especially for the price.


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## xcescxa (Jun 10, 2022)

_this is still running when this item was being talked about 3 months ago_


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## TheEugeneKam (Jun 10, 2022)

I’m surprised with TFX as well. I guess SYY is the next one and if that fails I’ll try tf8. Will let it sit. Instructions say 15 min so gonna follow it perfectly.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 10, 2022)

TheEugeneKam said:


> Wow, MX-5 is truly an astounding product! Pumped out literally in hours. I'm already back to 95C.


Bullshit! IF your system is running at 95C, you have a problem other than the TIM. 


cvaldes said:


> You don't get it, do you?


Yes, that's got to be it...

I think it's time to break out the hip-boots, cause it's getting deep in here.


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## Mussels (Jun 10, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> When you start out with things like this, you immediately disqualify anything that follows. PC's, the VAST majority of the time, are operating at "room" temps. And for the record, oil "seperation" doesn't happen until well above 150C for most substances that would be used in a PC/technology application. It's a chemistry thing.
> 
> 
> That looks interesting. Would you have a link for that screenshot?


He's not saying the room temperature the PC is in matter as part of the test, he's saying you cant test a thermal compound at 20C and make a final judgement when it could be used at 100C



lexluthermiester said:


> Bullshit! IF your system is running at 95C, you have a problem other than the TIM.
> 
> Yes, that's got to be it...
> 
> I think it's time to break out the hip-boots, cause it's getting deep in here.



But... that sort of temperature is totally normal on a lot of modern laptops?
Hell even some of the modern desktops.

Go spend some time in TPU's throttlestop forum, look at all the users upset their brand new intel gaming laptops run at 90-100C out of the box, voided their warranty with new thermal paste only to find that nothing works short of underclocking and undervolting.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 10, 2022)

Mussels said:


> But... that sort of temperature is totally normal on a lot of modern laptops?


Only when the cooling is either poorly engineered(Apple, Dell, HP) or clogged with dust/crap restricting airflow. Otherwise, no.


Mussels said:


> Hell even some of the modern desktops.


See above, but add overclocked and poorly ventilated.


Mussels said:


> Go spend some time in TPU's throttlestop forum, look at all the users upset their brand new intel gaming laptops run at 90-100C out of the box


You assume I don't. Most of those are situations of poorly designed/implimented cooling. Fan profiles for OEM laptops can sometimes be badly configured. The TIM has little to do with those situations, demonstrated by...


Mussels said:


> only to find that nothing works short of underclocking and undervolting.


...this.


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## cvaldes (Jun 10, 2022)

> But... that sort of temperature is totally normal on a lot of modern laptops?
> Hell even some of the modern desktops.


Yes, it is.

As I pointed out earlier, my Mac mini 2018 (Intel Core i7) hovers around 100 °C when the CPU is maxed out, like during a Handbrake encode.

And same with my Acer Swift 3 notebook. Both of them have some sort of thermal grease on the CPU. I don't know what they are using, but it's probably not MX-5 based on the fact that both of them released before MX-5 came to the market.

These systems are designed to use their CPUs to basically the maximum limits of their TDP. And there's nothing new about this.

In fact, notebook computer manufacturers normally don't refer to these systems as laptops. They have been well aware for about two decades that these systems run so hot under load that you might burn yourself if you put your computer on your lap. And Joe Consumer would rather pay $500 instead of $1500.

In any case, these systems are designed for a wide variety of users, usage cases, and budgets. Not everyone is going to own a perfectly designed, perfectly vented system that has a large buffer for thermal capacity when they just want something portable under 1.5 kg.

Let's remember that most consumer computers are notebooks. People want something that might run 12+ hours on a single charge rather than a 3 kg notebook that basically needs to be plugged into a socket.

Sure, maybe a notebook could run cooler if you put a big fat heatpipe in it with 2-3 fans but then the owner might be lugging around something an inch thick. Or the manufacturer could keep the svelte chassis and throttle the CPU (or GPU) at 80 °C hence partially nerfing the components' maximum design capabilities.

A funnier note is that many Mac minis end up in data centers and other air conditioned server rooms. Running full bore at 100 °C is what many of these units do.

The funniest thing is that with Apple taking control over their own silicon, their stuff is better from a performance-per-watt metric than anything AMD or Intel can offer.

If a thermal grease can work at ~70 °C on some custom built deskto PC but breaks down at >90 °C on a mass-market notebook, that basically limits its applicability.

Shall we guess where MX-5 is?

Let's remember that Arctic is the one who took MX-5 off the market. Not CallandorWoT. Not Mussels. Not W1zzard. Not Chomiq. Not me.


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## TheEugeneKam (Jun 10, 2022)

Laptop and fans are fully cleaned a few days ago as I thought that might be the problem and not tfx. Alas it was tfx. Most modern laptops that are intel are designed to run up to 90-100c. That’s normal spec. They throttle at a 100.  my desktop is using my-h2 and 5900x sits at 70 max with amd pbo2 and auto under volt thing setup.

@Lex not a troll account, just thought I would share my experience so far. Also who creates troll accounts to post about thermal paste…
You are welcome to speculate about shadow accounts and I’m glad mx-5 works for you. I am sharing my experience so far 2016 MacBook Pro in particular. I think you might either use laptops that have better cooling or built. We use dell latitude 14 inch at work and I’m assuming the pinpoint will be similar on that.

Most workplaces give you shitty dell or HP, we use a blend of these after 2020. Before that we were strictly dell. A lot of them do run hot but thats the particular market I’m talking about. Not msi gaming bricks. I’m sure their cooling is significantly better, they are more of a niche product rather then stained laptops most people have for work or Macs

I have no horse in this race apart from telling people what I have tried so far. I already spent the money on all these pastes which will work fine for desktops.

Taking off max-5 was terrible. It’s a gooey stringy mess

syy 157 seems softer then tfx did it was closer to “normal” paste then gummy tfx texture. So a bit easier to apply. Currently waiting another 5 min as per instructions before assembly.


UPDATE: 
so the paste seems to run a bout a degree cooler then mx-5. Lets see how long it lasts.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 10, 2022)

TheEugeneKam said:


> Also who creates troll accounts to post about thermal paste…


It happens. Some people are really that petty.


TheEugeneKam said:


> @Lex not a troll account, just thought I would share my experience so far.


Fair enough. However, saying...


TheEugeneKam said:


> Wow, MX-5 is truly an astounding product! Pumped out literally in hours. I'm already back to 95C. I think SYY is the next one I'm going to try today or tomorrow.


..this. TPU is no stranger to fanboy nonsense, and there's been plenty of it in this thread.



TheEugeneKam said:


> UPDATE:
> so the paste seems to run a bout a degree cooler then mx-5. Lets see how long it lasts.


Then there's this. So it seems the MX-5, nor the SYY, is the problem.


----------



## TheEugeneKam (Jun 10, 2022)

Sorry, I should have been more clear about what I meant to say runs a degree cooler than the initial MX-5 application which dropped about 20C from TFX that pumped out. So starting point between the two is pretty much the same within a margin of error. MX-5 pumped out within hours of using it for me. This one is holding up the same so far. 

The poor thermal envelope of macs is the problem for sure, i exp3ect it to run hot, just not hit 100C instantly under load, which is what my old TFX paste did and MX-5 got close to.


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## SpittinFax (Jun 10, 2022)

Today I replaced the MX-5 on my RX6600 with Noctua NT-H2 and the hotspot temperature dropped from 82C to 81C. I'm calling that basically a tie. So even though MX-5 has issues with paste consistency, there isn't any indication that it affects thermal performance. In fact I'd even argue that the MX-5 performs really well considering the cost per gram is around 66% lower than NT-H2. There still is the question of application lifespan but I personally haven't seen any changes in performance over time.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 10, 2022)

TheEugeneKam said:


> MX-5 pumped out within hours of using it for me.


I have never seen this effect with ANY paste. After discussing the subject for many years with many people and trying many, many times to replicate this "effect" and failing to find anything to substantiate the many claims made, I am always extremely dubious whenever someone chimes in and claims to have witnessed it, especially when they claim it happened in a matter of hours. What is far more likely is that the very flat surface of the CPU heatplate is simply squishing all the TIM out as it is secured to the CPU die or it was not applied properly. This would happen with any TIM, which is why your temps haven't changed much. Thermal interface materials are NOT miracle compounds. They can only act as a medium to conduct heat through. If the cooling apparatice is deficient, the TIM is not to blame, the cooling system is, which means the blame falls on the manufacturer of the cooling system in question, assuming the TIM was properly applied to the surface.


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## Mussels (Jun 10, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> I have never seen this effect with ANY paste. After discussing the subject for many years with many people and trying many, many times to replicate this "effect" and failing to find anything to substantiate the many claims made, I am always extremely dubious whenever someone chimes in and claims to have witnessed it, especially when they claim it happened in a matter of hours. What is far more likely is that the very flat surface of the CPU heatplate is simply squishing all the TIM out as it is secured to the CPU die or it was not applied properly. This would happen with any TIM, which why your temps haven't changed much. Thermal interface materials are NOT miracle compounds. They can only act as a medium to conduct heat through. If the cooling apparatice is deficient, the TIM is not to blame, the cooling system is, which means the blame falls on the manufacturer of the cooling system in question, assuming the TIM was properly applied to the surface.


Wouldnt the multiple people in this thread stating otherwise, be an obvious clue that there are things outside your experience?

It's a lot more likely than your claims of trolls, fake accounts and bizarre accusations you've made out of fear that you may either be wrong, or not know something

You're in complete denial that MX5 is a faulty product, it's been EOL'd due to it.  No shit, the people with the bad batches are going to experience these problems and your denial and accusations to the people experiencing it are just fucking weird.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 10, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Wouldnt the multiple people in this thread stating otherwise, be an obvious clue that there are things outside your experience?
> 
> It's a lot more likely than your claims of trolls, fake accounts and bizarre accusations you've made out of fear that you may either be wrong, or not know something


It's an example of uninformed people making assumptions without evidence and possibly even the Mandela effect. And when I smell moose-muffins, I call moose-muffins.


Mussels said:


> You're in complete denial that MX5 is a faulty product


Yes, that must be it, denial. Couldn't be something else could it? Arctic had a faulty batch, 1(one), which they attempted to correct before being blasted and ridiculed by an ignorant cancel-culture public, no doubt spurred on by competitors.

Yes, I'm standing my ground and not willing to accept nonsense. This not denial, it is confidence in the scientific method. If there are users who have a bad batch they should be contacting Arctic about it, not coming here whining and badmouthing Arctic.


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 10, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> First of all, you are conducting your experiment at room temperature. That is not the typical operating environment of a CPU.
> 
> The oil separation is probably happening at higher temperatures and might be exacerbated by temperature deltas between high operating temperature and when the system is turned off.
> 
> ...


You're missing the part where people reported oil separation on MX-5 immediately after coming out of the tube.

My tube was fine and I see no problems when running with my 5800X. If I see any issues I'll just switch over to a different paste.

Arctic couldn't keep the consistency and they did the best they could - EOL it because word around the block was that MX-5 can be runny, gummy sh*tshow.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 10, 2022)

If TFX pumped out there is something else going on. TFX is very thick, it doesn’t run. It’s way thicker than SYY.


----------



## 95Viper (Jun 10, 2022)

Stop the insults.
Stay on topic.
Report the problem and do not become the problem!


----------



## Shrek (Jun 10, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> I have never seen this effect with ANY paste. After discussing the subject for many years with many people and trying many, many times to replicate this "effect" and failing to find anything to substantiate the many claims made, I am always extremely dubious whenever someone chimes in and claims to have witnessed it, especially when they claim it happened in a matter of hours.



I tend to agree; as I understand it, it is a very slow process that results from differential thermal expansion. Not something that can be resisted as the forces would be extreme. That is where I found the DOWSIL data so intriguing as it is *suggestive* that around 10,000 cycles may be involved in such a mechanism.

I am still wondering if wetting plays an important role whereby the thermal paste can make its way back in by capillary action; this is all conjecture, but one has to start someplace.

We seem to concentrate excessively on thermal conductivity, perhaps because that make things easy; TC-5026 has a thermal conductivity of 2.87 W/m.K. If a thermal conductivity of 20 W/m.K resulted in a 0.2°C drop, 2 W/m.K would result in a 2°C drop; well worth it in my opinion if the result is longevity.


----------



## TheEugeneKam (Jun 10, 2022)

@Shrek in Canada, to ship this item and import fees costs more then the paste itself. SYY is holding up fine for now for me. I haven’t replaced mx-5 on my dell yet as it works fine in that application.

I know pump out takes a bunch of cycles to affect the machine. It wasn’t the case with mc-5 which is odd. I wonder if it’s stringy consistency has something to do with that as I have never seen a paste be that stringy before. It was still wet when I took it off my Mac so drying was defenetly not the case. Eh who knows, the product is EOL anyways so this will become non issue fairly soon.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 10, 2022)

For me it is a learning process, so of utility whether or not it becomes obsolete.

I have 120g of GD900 so may never need to get any thermal paste again.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 10, 2022)

Shrek said:


> For me it is a learning process, so of utility whether or not it becomes obsolete.
> 
> I have 120g of GD900 so may never need to get any thermal paste again.



Had no idea what it was, did a quick google search, aliexpress on top, so guess it's some chinese brew..
Each their own..


----------



## Shrek (Jun 10, 2022)




----------



## Boombastik (Jun 10, 2022)

Shrek said:


> We seem to concentrate excessively on thermal conductivity, perhaps because that make things easy; TC-5026 has a thermal conductivity of 2.87 W/m.K. If a thermal conductivity of 20 W/m.K resulted in a 0.2°C drop, 2 W/m.K would result in a 2°C drop; well worth it in my opinion if the result is longevity.


The conductivity is 2.87 but the thermal resistance is only 0.03 from 20 psi to 80psi and for that reason beats thermal paste that have 5-6 w/m. K. Is the only paste that the thermal resistance don't change with pressure. For example akasa t5 pro grade plus have 5.5 conductivity and thermal resistance 0.04.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 10, 2022)

While it is true

Thermal paste is about lowering temperature
what use is that if

The lowered temperature only endures a few months


----------



## Pictus (Jun 10, 2022)

TheEugeneKam said:


> Sorry, I should have been more clear about what I meant to say runs a degree cooler than the initial MX-5 application which dropped about 20C from *TFX that pumped out*. So starting point between the two is pretty much the same within a margin of error. *MX-5 pumped out within hours of using it for me*. This one is holding up the same so far.



I would try something different like Shin-Etsu 7921








						6.49US $ 25% OFF|1g 2g 3g 5g 10g Shin-etsu 7921 7868 Syringe Thermal Conductive Grease Paste Plaster Cpu Pc Notebook Cooling Original Authentic - Pc Components Cooling & Tools - AliExpress
					

Smarter Shopping, Better Living!  Aliexpress.com




					www.aliexpress.com
				



It is super dense and will not pump out, but very hard to apply.
The guy in the video used a hair dryer, but I would keep the hair dryer on...


----------



## GerKNG (Jun 10, 2022)

Thermal Paste pump out is generally a heatsink issues (some paste can handle it better but all will pump out if the heatsink is the problem which it is in 95% of the cases)
i have dealt with it so often over the years with tons of GPUs (i repasted around 20-30 GPUs with almost all branded thermal pastes and it was almost the same.)
if the heatsink is rather thin or the GPU gets very! hot the expansion of the silicon and copper under a heat load causes the pump out effect.
one of the worst cards that i had to deal with was the 2080 Ti AMP Extreme.

repaste with MX4, completely gone within a week, Kryonaut 2 weeks, NT H2 2 weeks, the brown thermalright paste 2 weeks, GC Extreme a week... Same goes for silicone free pastes like hydronaut which will just turn into soupy sand.
if a heatsink is heavy and thick it's no problem even with the cheapest stuff (for example my 3090 Gaming X Trio) Arctic MX4 lasted almost a full year with no problems.
same with my 6900XT Nitro which was my first repaste with Arctic MX5. and guess what! a year later the temps are basically identical.

even the highest end stuff like kryonaut extreme will pump out within a week on bad heatsinks.
from my experience pump out is a bit less bad if you don't tighten the heatsink as much as it was from the factory. (just 1/8 rotation less can help sometimes)


----------



## TheEugeneKam (Jun 10, 2022)

Good tips! I remember shin-etsu, I think they were rumoured to be OeM for Lenovo a while back. Could be wrong though.
So far SYY is holding up solid in my end. Mx-5 is working fine in dell as well.


----------



## Kissamies (Jun 10, 2022)

Wait, what? EOL already? What I've missed?


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Jun 10, 2022)

Lenne said:


> Wait, what? EOL already? What I've missed?


Arctic pulled it from the market over consistency consistency concerns. 

No that's not a typo .


----------



## Kissamies (Jun 10, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> Arctic pulled it from the market over consistency consistency concerns.
> 
> No that's not a typo .


Haha.  Well, I seem to be in luck as my favourite PC shop has a 20g syringe of MX-4 on sale at 12.90EUR. It should be enough for while..

To be honest, I was also pretty disappointed with MX-5, and looks that it's not on sale anymore. Totally missed that.


----------



## Blaeza (Jun 10, 2022)

So is mx4 still fine? Or is that poop as well now?


----------



## Kissamies (Jun 10, 2022)

JKRsega said:


> So is mx4 still fine? Or is that poop as well now?


MX-4 is great, no worries there.


----------



## Blaeza (Jun 10, 2022)

That will be the only paste I ever use then. Cool.


----------



## GerKNG (Jun 10, 2022)

Lenne said:


> Wait, what? EOL already? What I've missed?


yep. i cant buy MX5 since months (and they are in germany...  )


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 10, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> yep. i cant buy MX5 since months (and they are in germany...  )
> View attachment 250581



If you still want it









						Arctic MX-5 Thermal Paste - 50g
					

Arctic MX-5 Thermal Paste - 50g ACTCP00050A 4895213702782




					www.highflow.nl


----------



## GerKNG (Jun 10, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> If you still want it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


50g are waaay too much 
i hope they'll fix it and bring it back soon.


----------



## Kissamies (Jun 10, 2022)

Yeah, I did read few pages back and saw their announcement about this. Hm, that sucks. But yeah, I'll just order a 20g syringe of MX-4 and it should be enough for a while.


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Jun 10, 2022)

Still available in the US.  Sold by Arctic even.


----------



## Kissamies (Jun 10, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> Still available in the US.  Sold by Arctic even.
> 
> View attachment 250584


Looks like that it's not available in Finland anymore by a quick check. I guess the resellers know the situation.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 10, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> Still available in the US.  Sold by Arctic even.
> 
> View attachment 250584



"Resealable packaging prevents the paste from drying out."

I though thermal pastes did not dry out at room temperature.


----------



## GerKNG (Jun 10, 2022)

Just found this on their website.


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Jun 10, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> Just found this on their website.
> View attachment 250586



That's why I was really surprised to see it still for sale, especially from Arctic themselves.


----------



## GerKNG (Jun 11, 2022)

weekendgeek said:


> That's why I was really surprised to see it still for sale, especially from Arctic themselves.


probably because it is old stock. i mean the paste is not dangerous or anything. just a lot of tubes are very! thick and others are very runny and sticky.


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Jun 11, 2022)

Shrek said:


> "Resealable packaging prevents the paste from drying out."
> 
> I though thermal pastes did not dry out at room temperature.


Long term storage maybe? I probably wouldn't trust some left open for a few years...


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jun 11, 2022)

Make way for mx6 lol


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 11, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> my experience pump out is a bit less bad if you don't tighten the heatsink as much as it was from the factory. (just 1/8 rotation less can help sometimes)
> View attachment 250560


That is NOT pump-out. It is excess TIM being squeezed out the sides during heatsink assembly, nothing more. This is an example of someone using a term that is completely not the effect being shown.



GerKNG said:


> Just found this on their website.
> View attachment 250586


We've already seen that.



weekendgeek said:


> Still available in the US.  Sold by Arctic even.
> 
> View attachment 250584


They're just clearing out remaining stock.



freeagent said:


> If TFX pumped out there is something else going on. TFX is very thick, it doesn’t run. It’s way thicker than SYY.


I think the user in question misunderstands what "pump-out" means. The experiences they are describing is not anything other than excess TIM being squished out the sides as the heatsink is being secured. That happens A LOT and is not pump-out.


----------



## SpittinFax (Jun 11, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> I think the user in question misunderstands what "pump-out" means. The experiences they are describing is not anything other than excess TIM being squished out the sides as the heatsink is being secured. That happens A LOT and is not pump-out.



From what I see, users complaining about "pump-out" are looking at the lack of thermal paste on the die area after removing a heatsink and think that's bad. But that's literally what thermal paste is supposed to do, it conforms to the space (however small it may be) when pressure is applied and prevents air gaps.

For "pump-out" to be objectively real, there must be some kind of worsening thermal contact inefficiency that translates into die temperatures increasing over time. Personally I haven't seen any instances where users have collected any information confirming that this is actually the case.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 11, 2022)

SpittinFax said:


> From what I see, users complaining about "pump-out" are looking at the lack of thermal paste on the die area after removing a heatsink and think that's bad. But that's literally what thermal paste is supposed to do, it conforms to the space (however small it may be) when pressure is applied and prevents air gaps.


Exactly correct! There is not supposed to be much TIM at all between the heatsink and CPU die/IHS.


SpittinFax said:


> For "pump-out" to be objectively real, there must be some kind of worsening thermal contact inefficiency that translates into die temperatures increasing over time.


And for the effect to be a real thing, it would take multiple years for it to take place, not hours, days, weeks or even months. This is because the "flexing" effect of heat-cycle expansion and contraction is measured in nanometers(billionths of a meter). Anything more would fracture and destroy the IC die itself.


SpittinFax said:


> Personally I haven't seen any instances where users have collected any information confirming that this is actually the case.


I work on PC's everyday, frequently replacing TIM. I have never seen any evidence of the proclaimed "pump-out" effect. I've seen squish-out, but that's not the same thing.


----------



## erocker (Jun 11, 2022)

eidairaman1 said:


> Make way for mx6 lol


I hope it comes pre-mixed this time!


----------



## nguyen (Jun 11, 2022)

I guess some repair shop want their customers to replace TIM as quick as possible , just good business...


----------



## GerKNG (Jun 11, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> That is NOT pump-out. It is excess TIM being squeezed out the sides during heatsink assembly, nothing more. This is an example of someone using a term that is completely not the effect being shown.


this is not what i said.
if you have a card that suffers a lot from it a tiny bit less tightened down screws leave a little bit more room and these ~0.2mm are enough on some heatsinks to make the whole pump out effect way less dramatic.
 my 2080 Ti had the worst issues where paste barely lasted more than two weeks.
with a slightly less screwed down heatsink it was over 3 months.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 11, 2022)

eidairaman1 said:


> Make way for mx6 lol



I had no idea MX-5 was recalled and EoL, wow.

Yeah, my guess is they will make a MX-6 now... interesting, don't think I ever seen this happen in the thermal paste industry before lol

I will be using Noctua NT-H2 as I still have some for my next build, so meh.

I honestly just wish someone would design something for Conductonaut to be safer, I'd really like to get some full copper giant heatsink cooling setup with Conductnaut, but I just am not willing to risk damaging a next gen desktop, so eh.






						TRUE Copper – Thermalright
					






					thermalright.com
				




that there with dual fans... and conductonaut... nom nom



Count von Schwalbe said:


> Arctic pulled it from the market over consistency consistency concerns.
> 
> No that's not a typo .



thank you for mentioning this, I must have missed the post about it.  odd


----------



## freeagent (Jun 11, 2022)

They still make Ultra 120, but its been updated, and pretty much only supports newer sockets.

Thermalright U120EX REV.4 BLACK CPU Air Cooler 6 AGHP Heat pipes With 120mm Fan for AMD AM4 Intel LGA 115X 1200 2011 2066 1700| | - AliExpress


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 12, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> this is not what i said.
> if you have a card that suffers a lot from it a tiny bit less tightened down screws leave a little bit more room and these ~0.2mm are enough on some heatsinks to make the whole pump out effect way less dramatic.
> my 2080 Ti had the worst issues where paste barely lasted more than two weeks.
> with a slightly less screwed down heatsink it was over 3 months.


 There are so many things wrong with what you just stated, I really don't know where to begin, so I'm not going to bother. Carry on..


----------



## Pictus (Jun 12, 2022)

TheEugeneKam said:


> Good tips! I remember shin-etsu, I think they were rumoured to be OeM for Lenovo a while back. Could be wrong though.
> So far SYY is holding up solid in my end. Mx-5 is working fine in dell as well.



I am glad to help.
This is a YouTube video and I do not understand what the guy says, but a picture is worth a thousand words. 
Funny, almost nobody talks about Shin-Etsu *7921* or Thermalright TF9.


----------



## Pictus (Jun 17, 2022)

As I mentioned Shin-Etsu 7921, some updates...

Thermalright TF3 = Shin-Etsu 7921, but with the advantage of not get a fake paste.
In the Chinese forums they are talking a lot about the new Honeywell PTM7950, it can last longer...
The film version is the way.








						12.9US $ 25% OFF|8.5W/m k Honeywell PTM7950SP Heat Conducting Silicone Grease CPU Thermal Paste GPU Notebook Phase Change Cooling Paste 2.5g/5.5g|Fans & Cooling|   - AliExpress
					

Smarter Shopping, Better Living!  Aliexpress.com




					www.aliexpress.com
				




From https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?...50-thermal-grease-which-you-dont-know.373132/
Around 22:00 Larid 780SP is 2 C higher than 7921/TFX without break-in or pump-out. https://b23.tv/egP06l
Long term review, around 5:25, 7950 is 2C better than 780SP and those phase transition stuffs can survive over 10*24 hrs stress test. https://b23.tv/4nLK1L


----------



## ssateneth (Jun 19, 2022)

Pictus said:


> I am glad to help.
> This is a YouTube video and I do not understand what the guy says, but a picture is worth a thousand words.
> Funny, almost nobody talks about Shin-Etsu *7921* or Thermalright TF9.


You can buy Shin Etsu X23-7921 from moddiy.com. The website is trusted. I have bought from them for many many years, always got genuine product. They ship from China.









						Shin Etsu MicroSi Thermal Interface Material X23 7921 6W mK 3g
					

Buy Shin Etsu MicroSi Thermal Interface Material X23 7921 6W mK 3g for $14.99 with Free Shipping Worldwide (In Stock)




					www.moddiy.com
				











						Shin Etsu MicroSi Thermal Interface Material X23 7921 6W mK 5g
					

Buy Shin Etsu MicroSi Thermal Interface Material X23 7921 6W mK 5g for $19.99 with Free Shipping Worldwide (In Stock)




					www.moddiy.com
				



They carry other Shin Etsu compounds and other brands too. 7921 has a tacky, slightly putty thickness. It can be difficult to work with. I swear by Prolimatech PK3 now since I can get it in 30 gram tubes for a good price and is extremely easy to worth with, with long performing life. I have no observed paste separation with it.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 5, 2022)

Reviving ye olde thread

Igors lab took a big poo poo on MX4 for GPU use, and this thread is our big thermal paste discussion thread

Blob, sausage or solid? Apply thermal paste to the GPU correctly - we measured! | Page 2 | igor'sLAB (igorslab.de)








He has some interesting and almost contradictory comments later, i think the translation muddied a few things


He poops right on MX4 and spreading, because his thicker preference for pastes doesnt spread well.
He DOES say thinner pastes work better with this method, but a lot of websites and social media groups are now harping on about the line method being the only choice, when he does state that spreading is only bad on his preferred thicker pastes







Interestingly, his line method he does things differently: He does top left bottom left, top right bottom right (only until they grip, definitely not until tight) - instead of the more common diagonal approach







So I guess a lot of reasons people find different application methods work for them comes down to the paste they use.
Hell ambient temperature might too - in the 40C aussie summer every paste is a liquid, but in the frozen wastelands of Canada they'd all be frozen solid and require different spread methods


Personally i like to spread the paste, then add a small blob to the center - spreading doesnt work perfectly unless you've lapped both sides for flat contact, any excess will get pushed to where its needed


----------



## Pictus (Sep 5, 2022)

Mussels said:


> So I guess a lot of reasons people find different application methods work for them comes down to the paste they use.
> Hell ambient temperature might too - in the 40C aussie summer every paste is a liquid, but in the frozen wastelands of Canada they'd all be frozen solid and require different spread methods
> 
> 
> Personally i like to spread the paste, then add a small blob to the center - spreading doesnt work perfectly unless you've lapped both sides for flat contact, any excess will get pushed to where its needed



I agree.
Here with a lapped cooler + non lapped CPU the contact is not perfect, but good enough for me, using the spread + a small blob in the center.

I am testing mixing a small bit of Krytox grease with the pastes to create a longer lasting mix, seems to have worked well for the Alseye T9+ Platinum
and probably will work ok for the other dense carbon based models like  Thermalright TFX/Zezzio ZT-GX/Thermagic ZF-EX.
I have no conclusion yet, but when the Shin-Etsu 7921 arrives I will test to see the performance degradation from pure to the mix.
A very interesting post at https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/thermal-paste-specification-comparison.6677965/page-9
Baked at 200ºC for 24h, *the green bar belongs to the survivors*, it shows the values of before and after baking.
200ºC is too much, but it is interesting anyway.


----------



## ThrashZone (Sep 5, 2022)

Hi,
Probably the worst spread job I've ever seen after seeing it again 
@lexluthermiester should have fun with it 
,


----------



## AsRock (Sep 5, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Probably the worst spread job I've ever seen after seeing it again
> @lexluthermiester should have fun with it
> ,
> View attachment 260704



But with a little twisting on the cooler before it's tightened would solved that and i have had no problems over 20 years over doing it like that.

Maybe the camera is making it look worse ?.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 5, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Probably the worst spread job I've ever seen after seeing it again
> @lexluthermiester should have fun with it
> ,
> View attachment 260704


Fun? Not really. I would wipe it off and try again. That's a terrible spread job. I've seen butter spread on toast with better skill than that photo..



AsRock said:


> Maybe the camera is making it look worse ?.


It's not the photo. It's an example of poor work. See below;

This is a good spread job. Just did this to show proper work.


----------



## freeagent (Sep 5, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Fun? Not really. I would wipe it off and try again. That's a terrible spread job. I've seen butter spread on toast with better skill than that photo..
> 
> 
> It's not the photo. It's an example of poor work. See below;
> ...


Looks like mine


----------



## AsRock (Sep 5, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Fun? Not really. I would wipe it off and try again. That's a terrible spread job. I've seen butter spread on toast with better skill than that photo..
> 
> 
> It's not the photo. It's an example of poor work. See below;
> ...



Well i do the same thing, well close to i leave about 1mm at the edge then when the heatsink is placed a little twist back and forth solves it all. A little twisting clears it right up.

Been going though how and what is the best with my GPU in the passed hitting 90c in summer (ambient being in the 30-34c, best tool i found is one of those small ice cream spoons, now it only hits 84c after many hours.

Just this way takes a little more time but it's 100% worth it over the pea size or X ways. Peace of mind to knowing the whole die is covered too.


----------



## AusWolf (Sep 5, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Fun? Not really. I would wipe it off and try again. That's a terrible spread job. I've seen butter spread on toast with better skill than that photo..
> 
> 
> It's not the photo. It's an example of poor work. See below;
> ...


Some people would cringe at the sight of your CPU laid down on the carpet with no EMI shielding.  Sorry for the off.


----------



## P4-630 (Sep 5, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Fun? Not really. I would wipe it off and try again. That's a terrible spread job. I've seen butter spread on toast with better skill than that photo..
> 
> 
> It's not the photo. It's an example of poor work. See below;
> ...



You can only do it that pretty when your motherboard is not in the case yet.... Or when you did not even put the CPU in the socket yet as you did...

When the motherboard is in the case , it's harder to do, but according my CPU temps it seems I did it good enough...


----------



## erocker (Sep 6, 2022)

So any word on a new formulation? I've been using SYY and it's consistently -2c under Kryonaut.. But with SYY it's so thick I seem to use a lot more than any other paste. Kryonaut is similar but not as bad. MX, you only need a little and it spreads nicely. Wanting some new stuff...


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 6, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Some people would cringe at the sight of your CPU laid down on the carpet with no EMI shielding.  Sorry for the off.


While it is carpet, those carpet tiles cover the top of my workbench and are properly grounded. 


P4-630 said:


> You can only do it that pretty when your motherboard is not in the case yet.... Or when you did not even put the CPU in the socket yet as you did...


Nonsense! I do in-system applications all the time. All it takes is a stead hand and a credit-card-edge like tool to spread it out. Easy-breezy!



erocker said:


> MX, you only need a little and it spreads nicely. Wanting some new stuff...


Same here! Wanting a direct replacement to MX-5 with similar characteristics.


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Sep 6, 2022)

Maybe I am peculiar, but I cannot trust the spread method to prevent air bubbles. Wouldn't an "X" with a small "+" provide a nearly square spread, and no danger of air pockets?


----------



## Shrek (Sep 6, 2022)

Der8auer does not believe in air bubbles (11:40)

Der8auer Deep-Dives on Thermal Paste: Misconceptions, Curing, & More | LTX 2019 - Bing video


----------



## Naito (Sep 6, 2022)

Normally apply the 'X' method myself. Haven't tried MX-5 paste as I've been impressed with NT-H1 and NT-H2 pastes. These still considering decent?


----------



## maxfly (Sep 6, 2022)

Naito said:


> Normally apply the 'X' method myself. Haven't tried MX-5 paste as I've been impressed with NT-H1 and NT-H2 pastes. These still considering decent?


Yep they are both fine and use whatever method you prefer. The difference between one and another aren't worth worrying about. The same with modern thermal pastes.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 6, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> Maybe I am peculiar, but I cannot trust the spread method to prevent air bubbles. Wouldn't an "X" with a small "+" provide a nearly square spread, and no danger of air pockets?


I have never seen any evidence of "bubbles" trapped between the heatsink and die/IHS. This is due to the mounting pressures involved. Whether a CPU or GPU, there is no way air can remain between the heatsink and the surface being cooled unless there exists a severe concave condition on one or both of those surfaces, and then you would have a much bigger problem.



maxfly said:


> The difference between one and another aren't worth worrying about.


Pretty much this. The only reason I perform and recommend the spreading method is that it generally takes less TIM to do the job and thus less waste from excess TIM being squeezed out the sides.


----------



## maxfly (Sep 6, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> I have never seen any evidence of "bubbles" trapped between the heatsink and die/IHS. This is due to the mounting pressures involved. Whether a CPU or GPU, there is no way air can remain between the heatsink and the surface being cooled unless there exists a severe concave condition on one or both of those surfaces, and then you would have a much bigger problem.
> 
> 
> Pretty much this. The only reason I perform and recommend the spreading method is that it generally takes less TIM to do the job and thus less waste from excess TIM being squeezed out the sides.


Same here, I've always been a little ocd when it comes to spreading tim. I cant stand it when I pull a block and there's wasted paste around the edges. 

One day... I will attain the perfect mount and application!


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 6, 2022)

maxfly said:


> One day... I will attain the perfect mount and application!


Just tried something new based on another user's question. See the following.








						When applying TIM gets a little too personal...
					

Ok this is one TIM application method I haven't seen tested before. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OF1nO_nN3fw  Pros:  Thinner and more consistent application. (not too thick) Cons:  Finger cancer?  Thoughts?




					www.techpowerup.com
				



I used very little TIM and was able to spread it out very evenly.


----------



## AusWolf (Sep 6, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> Maybe I am peculiar, but I cannot trust the spread method to prevent air bubbles. Wouldn't an "X" with a small "+" provide a nearly square spread, and no danger of air pockets?


I still use the good old blob in the middle of the IHS method. The flip side is that it only works with square surfaces. That's why I'm a bit reluctant to buy into LGA 1700 and that's why I'm scared to repaste GPUs.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 6, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> That's why I'm a bit reluctant to buy into LGA 1700 and that's why I'm scared to repaste GPUs.


You might be worrying too much. It's really very simple, apply TIM to all contact surfaces, attach heatsink, enjoy!


----------



## AusWolf (Sep 6, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> *You might be worrying too much.* It's really very simple, apply TIM to all contact surfaces, attach heatsink, enjoy!


Probably.  I could practice on a few spare GPUs I've got lying around, I just don't want to brick them by accident. I wish Nvidia took AMD's path with the corner protection bracket.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 6, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I could practice on a few spare GPUs I've got lying around, I just don't want to brick them by accident.


You're not going to brick anything. The worst thing that would happen is that they'd run hotter and you'd need to redo the TIM application.


----------



## maxfly (Sep 6, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Just tried something new based on another user's question. See the following.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's how I used to do it lol. But then I got paranoid that was contaminating the tim so I would stretch a piece of sandwich baggie, stretch wrap or trash bag over my finger tip (whichever was closest at hand). Then squeeze a tiny dollop of tim onto the ihs and smooth it around. Ceramique became my go to because it spread so much better than arctic silver and I didn't have to wait for it to cure. I still kind of employ the same method but now I use a spatula... haven't quite mastered the spatula method yet.


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 6, 2022)

maxfly said:


> That's how I used to do it lol. But then I got paranoid that was contaminating the tim so I would stretch a piece of sandwich baggie, stretch wrap or trash bag over my finger tip (whichever was closest at hand). Then squeeze a tiny dollop of tim onto the ihs and smooth it around. Ceramique became my go to because it spread so much better than arctic silver and I didn't have to wait for it to cure. I still kind of employ the same method but now I use a spatula... haven't quite mastered the spatula method yet.


I've used practically always the dot method*, LM TIM is the only one I spread as it's supposed to.

* on few cases, I've used the line method.


----------



## P4-630 (Sep 6, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Nonsense! I do in-system applications all the time. All it takes is a stead hand and a credit-card-edge like tool to spread it out. Easy-breezy!



That probably weren't high end boards with big VRM cooling blocks.....


----------



## maxfly (Sep 6, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> That probably weren't high end boards with big VRM cooling blocks.....


If your right handed it's easy.


----------



## AusWolf (Sep 6, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> You're not going to brick anything. The worst thing that would happen is that they'd run hotter and you'd need to redo the TIM application.


What about cornering the die when I'm tightening the screws on the cooler?


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 6, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> What about cornering the die when I'm tightening the screws on the cooler?


Don't tighten them with gorilla strength. Never killed a GPU when reattaching a cooler - just calmly get the screws to thread in opposite corners first.

I know it's an useless tip for you, but with a common sense, as a noob teen I had no problems installing then-popular Zalman VF700s for cards with a bare die.


----------



## AusWolf (Sep 6, 2022)

Lenne said:


> Don't tighten them with gorilla strength. Never killed a GPU when reattaching a cooler - just calmly get the screws to thread in opposite corners first.
> 
> I know it's an useless tip for you, but with a common sense, as a noob teen I had no problems installing then-popular Zalman VF700s for cards with a bare die.


Those were the times! Zalman and the Arctic Accelero series FTW!  

Thanks for the tip, though. I'm in the mood to dust off one or two of my spare cards and try it out right now, but the only paste I have at hand is a tube of TG Kryonaut which would be a waste.


----------



## Kissamies (Sep 6, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Those were the times! Zalman and the Arctic Accelero series FTW!
> 
> Thanks for the tip, though. I'm in the mood to dust off one or two of my spare cards and try it out right now, but the only paste I have at hand is a tube of TG Kryonaut which would be a waste.


My #1 recommendation is without a doubt a 8g syringe of MX-4  doesn't cost that much over 4g, and is enough for hella many installs.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 6, 2022)

maxfly said:


> Ceramique became my go to because it spread so much better than arctic silver and I didn't have to wait for it to cure.


That one is a good TIM.



AusWolf said:


> What about cornering the die when I'm tightening the screws on the cooler?


Be gentle and...


Lenne said:


> Don't tighten them with gorilla strength. Never killed a GPU when reattaching a cooler - just calmly get the screws to thread in opposite corners first.


...this. Careful work and you'll be fine.



P4-630 said:


> That probably weren't high end boards with big VRM cooling blocks.....


What? Putting TIM on an IHS is not difficult regardless of the motherboard or case.


----------



## P4-630 (Sep 7, 2022)

CoolerMaster CRYOFUZE VIOLET CF12.6 Nano Thermal Paste(CPU Thermal paste / Thermal conductivity up to 12.6W/mk incoming.....

Personally I'm not buying it, just share because it's something new.


















						CoolerMaster CRYOFUZE VIOLET CF12.6 Nano Thermal Paste(CPU Thermal paste / Thermal conductivity up to 12.6W/mk / Laptop Thermal paste/ 0.7ml) , MGY-NOSG-N07M-R1,Thermal Paste with Scraper, 2 Packs - Newegg.com
					

Buy CoolerMaster CRYOFUZE VIOLET CF12.6 Nano Thermal Paste(CPU Thermal paste / Thermal conductivity up to 12.6W/mk / Laptop Thermal paste/ 0.7ml) , MGY-NOSG-N07M-R1,Thermal Paste with Scraper, 2 Packs with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com


----------



## AusWolf (Sep 7, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> CoolerMaster CRYOFUZE VIOLET CF12.6 Nano Thermal Paste(CPU Thermal paste / Thermal conductivity up to 12.6W/mk incoming.....
> 
> View attachment 260926
> 
> ...


Let us know how good it is.


----------



## ThrashZone (Sep 7, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> CoolerMaster CRYOFUZE VIOLET CF12.6 Nano Thermal Paste(CPU Thermal paste / Thermal conductivity up to 12.6W/mk incoming.....
> 
> Personally I'm not buying it, just share because it's something new.
> 
> ...


Hi,
At least they know how to apply paste big X so it's a good start


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> CoolerMaster CRYOFUZE VIOLET CF12.6 Nano Thermal Paste(CPU Thermal paste / Thermal conductivity up to 12.6W/mk incoming.....
> 
> Personally I'm not buying it, just share because it's something new.
> 
> ...


Going to order some of this as soon as it hits Amazon.


----------



## Shrek (Sep 7, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> CoolerMaster CRYOFUZE VIOLET CF12.6 Nano Thermal Paste(CPU Thermal paste / Thermal conductivity up to 12.6W/mk incoming.....
> 
> Personally I'm not buying it, just share because it's something new.
> 
> ...



They seem to also have a 14 W/m.k version

Cooler Master CRYOFUZE CF14 Nano Thermal Paste(CPU Thermal paste / Thermal conductivity up to 14 W/mk / Laptop Thermal paste/ 0.7ml 2g) -MGZ-NDSG-N07M-R2, 2 Packs - Newegg.com


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2022)

Shrek said:


> They seem to also have a 14 W/mk version
> 
> Cooler Master CRYOFUZE CF14 Nano Thermal Paste(CPU Thermal paste / Thermal conductivity up to 14 W/mk / Laptop Thermal paste/ 0.7ml 2g) -MGZ-NDSG-N07M-R2, 2 Packs - Newegg.com


Yeah, but it's not Violet...

EDIT: you can laugh, but I want some Violet TIM.


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Sep 7, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yeah, but it's not Violet...


The tube is!

It seems that the Violet version is available on Newegg if you really want it. 








						CoolerMaster CRYOFUZE VIOLET CF12.6 Nano Thermal Paste(CPU Thermal paste / Thermal conductivity up to 12.6W/mk / Laptop Thermal paste/ 0.7ml) , MGY-NOSG-N07M-R1,Thermal Paste with Scraper, 2 Packs - Newegg.com
					

Buy CoolerMaster CRYOFUZE VIOLET CF12.6 Nano Thermal Paste(CPU Thermal paste / Thermal conductivity up to 12.6W/mk / Laptop Thermal paste/ 0.7ml) , MGY-NOSG-N07M-R1,Thermal Paste with Scraper, 2 Packs with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com


----------



## P4-630 (Sep 7, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yeah, but it's not Violet...
> 
> EDIT: you can laugh, but I want some Violet TIM.



It's probably an answer to the pink Kryonaut bubblegum...    (which I'm using btw)


----------



## Shrek (Sep 7, 2022)

$30 for 4g seems like a lot


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2022)

Shrek said:


> $30 for 4g seems like a lot


Agreed. It's a bit pricey.


----------



## Shrek (Sep 7, 2022)

I'll stick with GD900 at $4 for 30g


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 7, 2022)

Shrek said:


> I'll stick with GD900 at $4 for 30g


But dude, it's not Violet!! You gotta have some colour bro!!


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Sep 7, 2022)

And RGB chunks!


----------



## P4-630 (Sep 7, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> But dude, it's not Violet!! You gotta have some colour bro!!





Count von Schwalbe said:


> And RGB chunks!



Just mix it with this https://www.amazon.com/Festival-Glitter-Teenitor-Iridescent-Cosmetic/dp/B08SQGNVJB/ref=sr_1_6


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Sep 7, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Just mix it with this https://www.amazon.com/Festival-Glitter-Teenitor-Iridescent-Cosmetic/dp/B08SQGNVJB/ref=sr_1_6


I was referencing the Corsair joke - turns out someone made it real.


----------



## Sithhy™ (Sep 7, 2022)

Shrek said:


> They seem to also have a 14 W/m.k version


*






*

TIM so good they can't decide which value to use


----------



## Athlonite (Sep 7, 2022)

Shrek said:


> They seem to also have a 14 W/m.k version
> 
> Cooler Master CRYOFUZE CF14 Nano Thermal Paste(CPU Thermal paste / Thermal conductivity up to 14 W/mk / Laptop Thermal paste/ 0.7ml 2g) -MGZ-NDSG-N07M-R2, 2 Packs - Newegg.com



NZ$144.08 Shipping
Estimated GST inclusive 
NZ$*78*.20

HAHA Fuck no not at those extortionate prices


----------



## AusWolf (Sep 8, 2022)

Conclusion: adding a violet dye to your thermal paste lowers its thermal conductivity.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Sep 8, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> Conclusion: adding a violet dye to your thermal paste lowers its thermal conductivity.



But violet is the highest-energy color of the visible spectrum!


----------



## AusWolf (Sep 8, 2022)

80-watt Hamster said:


> But violet is the highest-energy color of the visible spectrum!


True. That's why I have an Intel (blue) CPU and an AMD (red) GPU. Together, they make violet.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 8, 2022)

Sithhy™ said:


> *View attachment 260975
> View attachment 260974
> *
> 
> TIM so good they can't decide which value to use


Nope, they're two different versions. The grey version is the 14w and the violet is the 12.6w.


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 8, 2022)

Athlonite said:


> NZ$144.08 Shipping
> Estimated GST inclusive
> NZ$*78*.20
> 
> HAHA Fuck no not at those extortionate prices



I think a lot of you, including @lexluthermiester are forgetting that these are all third party sellers, and you should never trust third party sellers. Wait for the stuff to be in stock properly, when it says "Shipped and Sold by Newegg" or "Shipped and Sold by Amazon" then it is a legit product. Prices are normal then as well.

Giving too much power to third party sellers is what destroyed the tech industry in last couple of years imo. Be patient. Also, I would never trust the quality control from third party sellers, because at end of day, you never know with them.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 8, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I think a lot of you, including @lexluthermiester are forgetting that these are all third party sellers, and you should never trust third party sellers. Wait for the stuff to be in stock properly, when it says "Shipped and Sold by Newegg" or "Shipped and Sold by Amazon" then it is a legit product. Prices are normal then as well.
> 
> Giving too much power to third party sellers is what destroyed the tech industry in last couple of years imo. Be patient. Also, I would never trust the quality control from third party sellers, because at end of day, you never know with them.


That's why I said I was waiting til Amazon had it.


----------



## Athlonite (Sep 9, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I think a lot of you, including @lexluthermiester are forgetting that these are all third party sellers, and you should never trust third party sellers. Wait for the stuff to be in stock properly, when it says "Shipped and Sold by Newegg" or "Shipped and Sold by Amazon" then it is a legit product. Prices are normal then as well.
> 
> Giving too much power to third party sellers is what destroyed the tech industry in last couple of years imo. Be patient. Also, I would never trust the quality control from third party sellers, because at end of day, you never know with them.


Newegg is just as bad when it wants 55 bucks for shipping for stuff they sell inhouse like Master Gel Maker at $33NZD (inc GST) + $55NZD shipping I think not


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 9, 2022)

Athlonite said:


> Newegg is just as bad when it wants 55 bucks for shipping for stuff they sell inhouse like Master Gel Maker at $33NZD (inc GST) + $55NZD shipping I think not


You need to remember, you're in New Zealand, one of the effective DMZs of computer parts and equipment in the world. Costs for you folks will always be ridiculous. No offense intended..

EDIT:
Update! CoolerMaster's Cryofuze Violet has a placeholder on Amazon!


			https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B7CDFVZC
		

I've added it to my wish list and will order it as soon as it's available.


----------



## Pictus (Sep 9, 2022)

Not the Violet, but if it is true...

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/tz319b/_/i3wevx1


----------



## P4-630 (Sep 9, 2022)

Also note the "[account deleted]"....


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 9, 2022)

I generally ignore Reddit, but especially "u/[deleted]" accounts..


----------



## AsRock (Sep 10, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> I generally ignore Reddit, but especially "u/[deleted]" accounts..



Yes because they have to be 100% wrong, right? HA.



P4-630 said:


> Also note the "[account deleted]"....



So because they are banned \ deleted there information is invalid ?. Just because.


----------



## Athlonite (Sep 10, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> You need to remember, you're in New Zealand, one of the effective DMZs of computer parts and equipment in the world. Costs for you folks will always be ridiculous. No offense intended..
> 
> EDIT:
> Update! CoolerMaster's Cryofuze Violet has a placeholder on Amazon!
> ...


Yeah none taken that's why I refer to NZ as Gougelandastan but still $55 bucks for shipping is a bit on the high side I can get shit from Aliexpress for a tenth of that and that's from China so pretty much the same distance


----------



## Pictus (Sep 10, 2022)

I found a Chinese(I do not understand) test that initially looks well made, but looks like he did not respected drying/curing time.
The Honeywell PTM7950*SP* is *PCM* and needs some time to dry, plus minimal temperature to melt and do its magic.
The PTM7950 non *SP*, the PAD version does not need dry time.




*CF14* = Cooler Master CryoFuse 14 W/mk, you can see the CF14 at 15:13  (click the image for the video)




Well, for the price the CF14 doesn't look good, even worse if it doesn't have a long lifespan for GPU/notebook.
If we consider the baking test I posted earlier, the NT-H2 looks very interesting with good performance and able to withstand high temperatures.
Does anyone here have experience with the NT-H2 with GPU/notebook?

---

Something curious...
In this video at 7:20 the guy says that the Thermalright TFX and Zezzio ZT-GX feels and smells the same.
The Zezzio ZT-GX smells like clove! 
Well, clove oil/eugenol has many uses from spice to medical and many chemical stuff.








Now we know why TFX is expensive... 


BTW, I heated(hot air from the fire) the cooler on the kitchen stove(obviously without the fans) to a warm/hot level, but not untouchable hot and this
makes totally easy to apply the Zezzio ZT-GX with a plastic card making a thin layer + a small blob in the middle.


----------



## AsRock (Sep 10, 2022)

Athlonite said:


> Yeah none taken that's why I refer to NZ as Gougelandastan but still $55 bucks for shipping is a bit on the high side I can get shit from Aliexpress for a tenth of that and that's from China so pretty much the same distance



I really dislike Amazon but it's not there fault, faults closser to home.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 10, 2022)

AsRock said:


> Yes because they have to be 100% wrong, right? HA.


No, because Reddit as a rule is a pathetic shitshow rarely to be taken seriously.


AsRock said:


> So because they are banned \ deleted there information is invalid ?. Just because.


Maybe yes, maybe no, but why should we bother? It's Reddit. For the same reason Twitter is garbage, Reddit is also. It's a loser platform no one should take seriously.

However, we're all getting way off topic. Let's rope ourselves in and get back to the MX-5 thermal compound discussion...



Athlonite said:


> Yeah none taken that's why I refer to NZ as Gougelandastan but still $55 bucks for shipping is a bit on the high side I can get shit from Aliexpress for a tenth of that and that's from China so pretty much the same distance


I really do feel for you all down there. Hopefully you'll get a more direct and less costly purchase opportunity, if you want to try out this new purple TIM.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 12, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yeah, but it's not Violet...
> 
> EDIT: you can laugh, but I want some Violet TIM.


Sometimes you just wake up and choose Violencet


----------



## P4-630 (Sep 22, 2022)

Arctic MX 6 is coming









						Thermal compound: Arctic completely discontinues MX-5 and brings MX-6
					

Image: Amazon UK After problems with consistency, Arctic appears to be completely discontinuing the MX-5 series of thermal compounds. At least the product is now marked with “End of Life” at Arctic. A successor is already in the starting blocks: the new MX-6* can already be found at Amazon...




					germany.detailzero.com


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 22, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Arctic MX 6 is coming
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HA! While this seems to be just a rumor, it does make sense.


----------



## P4-630 (Sep 22, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> HA! While this seems to be just a rumor, it does make sense.



It seems to have "glass" as ingredient according to amazon...  



			https://www.amazon.de/ARCTIC-ACTCP00080A-MX-6-4-g/dp/B09VDL3CW6/?tag=cb-article-21


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 22, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> It seems to have "glass" as ingredient according to amazon...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, so not so much a rumor as it is a leak. It has a Amazon . com placeholder too





						Amazon.com: ARCTIC MX-6 (4 g) : Patio, Lawn & Garden
					

Buy ARCTIC MX-6 (4 g): Plaques & Wall Art - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				



But look at that description! LOL!


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 22, 2022)

wow nice finds folks... I honestly was not expecting a MX-6 to come out.

Interesting.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 22, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> wow nice finds folks... I honestly was not expecting a MX-6 to come out.
> 
> Interesting.


I'm excited! IMHO, MX-5 is excellent and if they can improve on that performance, I'd be happy! I hope they keep it blue though. I know that's silly and has nothing to do with performance, but I liked it.


----------



## freeagent (Sep 22, 2022)

I thought it would be MX-5 GT or SE or something, not a completely different name


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 22, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I thought it would be MX-5 GT or SE or something, not a completely different name


They might have changed the formulation.


----------



## cvaldes (Sep 23, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I thought it would be MX-5 GT or SE or something, not a completely different name



That would be unwise. The MX-5 now has a bad rep.

Releasing a new product using a derivation of the same model number doesn't make sense. Joe Consumer will search for "MX-5" and probably find out that the product has been discontinued by the manufacturer. Too confusing.

And it would lead to repeated questions about why the original MX-5 was discontinued. Do you think Arctic really wants to spend the next 5-10 years regurgitating the same story for the millionth time? Clearly you do not work in marketing.

And 6 implies that it is better/greater than 5.


----------



## Bones (Sep 23, 2022)

More info on MX-6, including what looks ATM to be the price:
Arctic halts troublesome MX-5 thermal paste; MX-6 successor spotted at almost three times the price

Most of this has already been seen but the comments show what alot of people are thinking about it.


----------



## maxfly (Sep 23, 2022)

The glass part had me giggling yesterday. It's a little bit odd that the Arctic store isn't the seller as well. I want to know how Amazon got the hook up.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 23, 2022)

maxfly said:


> The glass part had me giggling yesterday. It's a little bit odd that the Arctic store isn't the seller as well. I want to know how Amazon got the hook up.


If you look at the posts 1247 & 1248 on page 50 of this thread you will see both listing are from the Arctic official store.


----------



## Athlonite (Sep 23, 2022)

I'm just going to use bacon fat so when I'm gaming it'll smell good


----------



## maxfly (Sep 23, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> If you look at the posts 1247 & 1248 on page 50 of this thread you will see both listing are from the Arctic official store.


The pic from the g3d article is what I was commenting on, dispatched and sold by Amazon  



Athlonite said:


> I'm just going to use bacon fat so when I'm gaming it'll smell good


Mmmm time for breakfast.


----------



## Pictus (Sep 23, 2022)

Athlonite said:


> I'm just going to use bacon fat so when I'm gaming it'll smell good



I prefer the clove/eugenol smell from Thermalright TFX and Zezzio ZT-GX.


----------



## maxfly (Sep 23, 2022)

Pictus said:


> I prefer the clove/eugenol smell from Thermalright TFX and Zezzio ZT-GX.


Completely ot but a friend of mine used to smoke clove cigarettes (when we were younger) for special occasions. Generally copious amounts of alcohol were required. I'd laugh my ass off as they snapped and popped like trick cigars as he smoked them.
 I never cared for the thick acrid smoke tho. I preferred the other more, cough, cough, natural tobbacky back then  
Ah to be young and silly again!

I cant imagine how your concoction must smell hahaha
:/


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 24, 2022)

maxfly said:


> The pic from the g3d article is what I was commenting on, dispatched and sold by Amazon


Ah, fair enough.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 2, 2022)

It's under Patio Lawn and Garden



It's been mislisted by some automated system


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 2, 2022)

Mussels said:


> It's under Patio Lawn and Garden
> View attachment 263963It's been mislisted by some automated system
> 
> View attachment 263962


We know. It's just a placeholder listing. If you look at the details, it's from the Arctic company store.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 3, 2022)

One heart shaped unscented piece of glass coming right up, new AM5 IHS i guess


----------



## ViperXTR (Oct 9, 2022)

Just re applied my MX-5 (due to having also replaced my arctic LF II gasket and cold plate) and noticed that it's still consistent after almost a year of use like it didn't harden that much despite what some batch of MX-5 they say are problematic.


----------



## maxfly (Oct 9, 2022)

ViperXTR said:


> Just re applied my MX-5 (due to having also replaced my arctic LF II gasket and cold plate) and noticed that it's still consistent after almost a year of use like it didn't harden that much despite what some batch of MX-5 they say are problematic.


Yeah, I haven't seen any difference in the tube I bought either. Consistency and performance are the same. 
Still have quite a bit left.


----------



## MachineLearning (Oct 9, 2022)

ViperXTR said:


> Just re applied my MX-5 (due to having also replaced my arctic LF II gasket and cold plate) and noticed that it's still consistent after almost a year of use like it didn't harden that much despite what some batch of MX-5 they say are problematic.


On this: I thought it was interesting that Arctic sent out MX-5 with the LFII repair kit. They must be clearing out (hopefully QC'd) their inventory of that paste.

Suppose once it's all gone, MX-6 is announced.
I just hope that MX-2 isn't discontinued any time soon, it's the best perf/$ for mass applications.


----------



## ViperXTR (Oct 9, 2022)

MachineLearning said:


> On this: I thought it was interesting that Arctic sent out MX-5 with the LFII repair kit. They must be clearing out (hopefully QC'd) their inventory of that paste.
> 
> Suppose once it's all gone, MX-6 is announced.
> I just hope that MX-2 isn't discontinued any time soon, it's the best perf/$ for mass applications.


Now that you mentioned it, i still used my old tube of MX-5 instead of the one sent by arctic on the LFII service kit


----------



## doyll (Oct 10, 2022)

Been using Thermalright TIM for like 15 years.  I've upgraded to newer version so am now using last of my TF8 and started using TF9.  It's a little stiffer than I like to apply so I heat tube in hot water or set on radiator so it's about 32-37c.  Then it flows and spread very nicely.


----------



## maxfly (Oct 10, 2022)

doyll said:


> Been using Thermalright TIM for like 15 years.  I've upgraded to newer version so am now using last of my TF8 and started using TF9.  It's a little stiffer than I like to apply so I heat tube in hot water or set on radiator so it's about 32-37c.  Then it flows and spread very nicely.


I've got a bunch of little tubes of tf7 that came with the Thermalright peerless assassin 120s I bought recently. I couldn't remember if I tried it or not and obviously couldn't remember if it is any good. I know your a Thermalright guru so what are your thoughts about it? Should I hang onto it or toss it?

 Some goes for our man @freeagent Yea or nay?

 Keep in mind I have alot of high quality tim as is. Not saying I won't try it but if it's not top notch it'll probably just sit forever.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 10, 2022)

maxfly said:


> I've got a bunch of little tubes of tf7 that came with the Thermalright peerless assassin 120s I bought recently. I couldn't remember if I tried it or not and obviously couldn't remember if it is any good. I know your a Thermalright guru so what are your thoughts about it? Should I hang onto it or toss it?
> 
> Some goes for our man @freeagent Yea or nay?
> 
> Keep in mind I have alot of high quality tim as is. Not saying I won't try it but if it's not top notch it'll probably just sit forever.


Im using TF7 right now, I think it is pretty good! I had a big tube of TF8 a few years ago and I thought it was awesome stuff, but at the time could only get it from China, so a bit of a wait. TFX is really good too, maybe the best I have tried? I used it on a 3600XT and a passive Le Grand Macho RT with a static OC of 4400MHz and it was Linpack stable. It would do 4500MHz as well, but temps would hit 90 with Linpack.


----------



## doyll (Oct 10, 2022)

maxfly said:


> I've got a bunch of little tubes of tf7 that came with the Thermalright peerless assassin 120s I bought recently. I couldn't remember if I tried it or not and obviously couldn't remember if it is any good. I know your a Thermalright guru so what are your thoughts about it? Should I hang onto it or toss it?
> 
> Some goes for our man @freeagent Yea or nay?
> 
> Keep in mind I have alot of high quality tim as is. Not saying I won't try it but if it's not top notch it'll probably just sit forever.


Nothing wrong with TF7.  I used up a couple tubes before changing to TF8.  Changed only because I ran out of TF7.  
Thermalright TF7 is rated 12.8 W/mk.​TF6 is/was (EOL) 12.5 W/mk​TF8 is 13.8 W/mk​TF9 is 14 W/mk​TFX is 14.3 W/mk​When I use up this last tube of TF8 I have a couple tube of TFX, so that's what I will be using.   

Honestly, I've seen only a couple degrees improvement from TF7 to TF9.  Maybe not even that.  I have a couple of little tube (included with coolers). I will try and put together a test of as many as I have, but I don't know when I will be doing it.  I don't expect to see much difference.  Best heat transfer is metal to metal with only microscopic void in crystalline structure filled with tiny bits of TIM.  Last time I checked, most cooler bases and IHS are copper with plating with a few aluminum bases on cheaper models.  Air is 0.024 W/mk, copper is 400W/mk and aluminum is about 240W/mk. That's 240-400 W/mk full metal contact compared to 13-15W/mk with TIM versus 0.024 W/mk with nothing.  Pretty obvious most heat transfer is metal to metal, so the better the metal match is, the better the heat transfer.



freeagent said:


> Im using TF7 right now, I think it is pretty good! I had a big tube of TF8 a few years ago and I thought it was awesome stuff, but at the time could only get it from China, so a bit of a wait. TFX is really good too, maybe the best I have tried? I used it on a 3600XT and a passive Le Grand Macho RT with a static OC of 4400MHz and it was Linpack stable. It would do 4500MHz as well, but temps would hit 90 with Linpack.


Any idea in degrees celcius difference between TF7 and TF8?  Or TF7/TF8 to TFX?  No problem if you haven't tested them either.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 10, 2022)

doyll said:


> Nothing wrong with TF7. I used up a couple tubes before changing to TF8. Changed only because I ran out of TF7.
> Thermalright TF7 is rated 12.8 W/mk.
> [TF6 is/was (EOL) 12.5 W/mk
> TF8 is 13.8 W/mk
> ...


It should be noted that these performance numbers only matter when heat load goes above 150W. Under 150w and the differences are almost undetectable and very much inconsequential.


doyll said:


> Any idea in degrees celcius difference between TF7 and TF8? Or TF7/TF8 to TFX?


Likely just a few, single digits.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 10, 2022)

doyll said:


> Any idea in degrees celcius difference between TF7 and TF8? Or TF7/TF8 to TFX? No problem if you haven't tested them either.


Nope sorry. I was using TF8 when I was still using Intel. TFX was on 3600XT. For Zen 3 I have only used TF7 and SYY-157, and AS5.

I was thinking of either getting another 6G tube of TF8, or maybe trying out TF9, or just getting some TFX, but it's not cheap. Is TF9 thick like TFX?


----------



## doyll (Oct 10, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Nope sorry. I was using TF8 when I was still using Intel. TFX was on 3600XT. For Zen 3 I have only used TF7 and SYY-157, and AS5.
> 
> I was thinking of either getting another 6G tube of TF8, or maybe trying out TF9, or just getting some TFX, but it's not cheap. Is TF9 thick like TFX?


I haven't used TF9 yet.  Planning to finish tube of TF8 before I open TF9.


----------



## Pictus (Oct 13, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Nope sorry. I was using TF8 when I was still using Intel. TFX was on 3600XT. For Zen 3 I have only used TF7 and SYY-157, and AS5.
> 
> I was thinking of either getting another 6G tube of TF8, or maybe trying out TF9, or just getting some TFX, but it's not cheap. Is TF9 thick like TFX?


If you want a thick paste Shin-Etsu 7921 probably is the most dry/thick.
I prefer the Shin-Etsu 7921 to the Zezzio ZT-GX, which feels and smells(clove/eugenol) like TFX.








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					www.moddiy.com


----------



## lexluthermiester (Oct 13, 2022)

Pictus said:


> If you want a thick paste Shin-Etsu 7921 probably is the most dry/thick.
> I prefer the Shin-Etsu 7921 to the Zezzio ZT-GX, which feels and smells(clove/eugenol) like TFX.
> 
> 
> ...


Instantly thought of this moment in a Simpsons episode;












An all-syrup Super-Squishy! I've always wanted to try that. I've never been able to convince the folks at 7-11 to do it. I'm sure it's possible though..


----------



## Borc (Oct 15, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Nope sorry. I was using TF8 when I was still using Intel. TFX was on 3600XT. For Zen 3 I have only used TF7 and SYY-157, and AS5.
> 
> I was thinking of either getting another 6G tube of TF8, or maybe trying out TF9, or just getting some TFX, but it's not cheap. Is TF9 thick like TFX?




TF9 is not as thick as TFX but it's still a thick paste, I would say slightly thicker than TF8. TF8 and TF7 were basically the same in performance when I tested them. Not sure about TF9, maybe it's 0.5-0.75 degrees better, nothing major.


----------



## yoodog (Oct 29, 2022)

looks like cooler master mastergel pro v2 may be best contender for all arounder since mx5 is not longer with us - always better than mx-4, Arctic Silver-5, Noctua - H1. In low and high pressure.
(that yellow test has something wrong with it, it is after Corsair lol)


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 29, 2022)

Where it says NH-D15 "High Tension Mount" What does this mean? They just screw the screws down until they won't screw anymore? Or does it mean a special bracket of some kind is used to create extra pressure? Wouldn't that be dangerous either way for the CPU though? I always screw in my air heatsinks really snug, but I never over exert myself so I don't damage the PCB of the motherboard.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 29, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> Where it says NH-D15 "High Tension Mount" What does this mean? They just screw the screws down until they won't screw anymore? Or does it mean a special bracket of some kind is used to create extra pressure? Wouldn't that be dangerous either way for the CPU though? I always screw in my air heatsinks really snug, but I never over exert myself so I don't damage the PCB of the motherboard.


I googled the phrase, heres the answer
If you have a backplate or not


----------



## Space Lynx (Oct 29, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I googled the phrase, heres the answer
> If you have a backplate or not
> 
> View attachment 267665



ok, so does the default NH-D15 come with this 'backplate'? and if it does, then wouldn't everyone automatically be installed the high-tension version? and if it doesn't come with a high tension backplate, why have I never see this for sale anywhere, as someone who browses Noctua's official website just for fun sometimes (yes I am weird like that, I love their products and color scheme lol) why would anyone opt to not use what is included in the box?

I don't know. I am tired and just confused myself. oh well.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 29, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> ok, so does the default NH-D15 come with this 'backplate'? and if it does, then wouldn't everyone automatically be installed the high-tension version? and if it doesn't come with a high tension backplate, why have I never see this for sale anywhere, as someone who browses Noctua's official website just for fun sometimes (yes I am weird like that, I love their products and color scheme lol) why would anyone opt to not use what is included in the box?
> 
> I don't know. I am tired and just confused myself. oh well.


Some coolers on AM4 use clips and on intel use push pins

It's simulating those, it says that outright


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 3, 2022)

its in my cart ready for checkout.  lets get ready to fix the Hhermal's up in this mofo


----------



## nguyen (Nov 3, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> its in my cart ready for checkout.  lets get ready to fix the Hhermal's up in this mofo
> 
> View attachment 268426



Let's make MX6 thread and make it the longest thread ever existed in TPU


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 3, 2022)

nguyen said:


> Let's make MX6 thread and make it the longest thread ever existed in TPU



I'd rather just see if a mod could change this thread to be titled MX-5 testing completed, now its MX-6 testing. lmao it still blows my mind 160k hits on this thread. i guess there are a lot of weird people out there just like me who like thermal paste testing, even though we all know its like 2-3 celsius difference max for all of them. LMAO


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 3, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> its in my cart ready for checkout.  lets get ready to fix the Hhermal's up in this mofo
> 
> View attachment 268426


Link? I'm not seeing it.


nguyen said:


> Let's make MX6 thread and make it the longest thread ever existed in TPU


Or we could take it over to The Official Thermal Interface Material thread.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 3, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Link? I'm not seeing it.



amazon.com/gp/product/B09VDLH5M6/


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 3, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> amazon.com/gp/product/B09VDLH5M6/


Thank You good sir! For whatever reason it wasn't coming up in a search.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 3, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Thank You good sir! For whatever reason it wasn't coming up in a search.



official thermal paste thread folk don't have the arctic skillset I do baby


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I'd rather just see if a mod could change this thread to be titled MX-5 testing completed, now its MX-6 testing. lmao it still blows my mind 160k hits on this thread. i guess there are a lot of weird people out there just like me who like thermal paste testing, even though we all know its like 2-3 celsius difference max for all of them. LMAO


Is that what you want, or would you rather start a fresh thread? A fresh thread would be better I think


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 3, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Is that what you want, or would you rather start a fresh thread? A fresh thread would be better I think



no leave it like this, its perfect. i love the new title.

this thread is my greatest achievement in life. 160k views. ffs mate, lmao


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2022)

Your wish is my command 

For now


----------



## maxfly (Nov 3, 2022)

OK, so MX-6 is officially out...but do I really need another toob-o-paste? 

20g & 4g MX-4
4g MX-5
5g Prolimatech PK3 *daily driver*
3.5g Noctua nt-h1 
2g Noctua nt-h2
6x 2 or 3g thermalright tf7 
(unopened for now).
2g ID-Cooling TG-25 from se 224 xt heatsinks (threw a bunch of this away).
1g Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut 

All that, just to say... YES!
 I ordered a 4g toob-o MX-6. It'll be here Saturday. Hehe

No idea when the testing will take place. Possibly next weekend.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2022)

I pushed out my last squeeze of TF7 the last time I played with my 5900X 

It does not do as well on PA120 as it did on FC140. PA120 performs a little better than True Rev.4 Black maybe.

I should get in the habit of writing things down.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 3, 2022)

im hoping my mx-6 surprises me and gives me a 5 celsius gain over NT-H2. i doubt i get that lucky, but hey, you never know


----------



## freeagent (Nov 3, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> im hoping my mx-6 surprises me and gives me a 5 celsius gain over NT-H2. i doubt i get that lucky, but hey, you never know


I didn't like NT-H1 very much, so I am going to play fortune teller and say 3c


----------



## Mussels (Nov 4, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> im hoping my mx-6 surprises me and gives me a 5 celsius gain over NT-H2. i doubt i get that lucky, but hey, you never know


It's easy to get a 10C gain if you do the competing paste badly enough


----------



## erocker (Nov 4, 2022)

If it can beat Syy or Kryonaut I'll get some.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 4, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> im hoping my mx-6 surprises me and gives me a 5 celsius gain over NT-H2. i doubt i get that lucky, but hey, you never know


Are you buying some? If so, do you want to do a set of performance runs and we can see what result we get as a team?



erocker said:


> If it can beat Syy or Kryonaut I'll get some.


I'm going to get some and will post results here.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 4, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Are you buying some? If so, do you want to do a set of performance runs and we can see what result we get as a team?
> 
> 
> I'm going to get some and will post results here.



I already bought some. problem is I have to wait for December to get my RDNA3 card. and my cpu is a kf    

so i am using mx-6, cause why not, perfect timing for my new build. but i am waiting until december for tests sadly


----------



## maxfly (Nov 4, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Are you buying some? If so, do you want to do a set of performance runs and we can see what result we get as a team?
> 
> 
> I'm going to get some and will post results here.


Let me know what you want to run and I'll do a comparison with the pk3/TR peerless assassin 120se that's on my test rig.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 4, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I already bought some. problem is I have to wait for December to get my RDNA3 card. and my cpu is a kf
> 
> so i am using mx-6, cause why not, perfect timing for my new build. but i am waiting until december for tests sadly


Fair enough. I'm ordering a tube and am going to do my standard run of tests. Will compare MX-5, NT-H1, CMCFV and the Dragon stuff against MX-6 in my T3500. Results might be interesting or perhaps boring. We shall see.



maxfly said:


> Let me know what you want to run and I'll do a comparison with the pk3/TR peerless assassin 120se that's on my test rig.


See right above. We both have MX-5 and we both have NT-H1 so we can compare those directly. My testing system is a Dell T3500 with a W3680 which I can softOC with ThrottleStop. Maybe we can do some comparisons with and without an OC? Do you still have the 9900KF stated in your specs?


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 4, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Fair enough. I'm ordering a tube and am going to do my standard run of tests. Will compare MX-5, NT-H1, CMCFV and the Dragon stuff against MX-6 in my T3500. Results might be interesting or perhaps boring. We shall see.
> 
> 
> See right above. We both have MX-5 and we both have NT-H1 so we can compare those directly. My testing system is a Dell T3500 with a W3680 which I can softOC with ThrottleStop. Maybe we can do some comparisons with and without an OC? Do you still have the 9900KF stated in your specs?



I'm going with Freeagent, I think mx-6 is going to surprise us and get about 3 celsius win over the next best one. I hope so anyway, cause if its all 1 celsius or 2 max difference, you are right, im starting to get a little too bored of this game, lol


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 4, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I'm going with Freeagent, I think mx-6 is going to surprise us and get about 3 celsius win over the next best one.


That would be kinda cool(no pun intended) given how well MX-5 performed.

EDIT: 
Order placed. MX-6 is on the way. Question for everyone, besides Prime95, what other CPU-centric bentchmark/stresstest would you like to see? I'm open to suggestions but please keep in mind I'm a busy guy and really only have time for one additional test. If we all can arrive at a consensus, I'll give it a shot.


----------



## phanbuey (Nov 4, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> That would be kinda cool(no pun intended) given how well MX-5 performed.
> 
> EDIT:
> Order placed. MX-6 is on the way. Question for everyone, besides Prime95, what other CPU-centric bentchmark/stresstest would you like to see? I'm open to suggestions but please keep in mind I'm a busy guy and really only have time for one additional test. If we all can arrive at a consensus, I'll give it a shot.


pump out for one... I hate having to repaste my gpu / cpu every few months because the temps start to creep.  Maybe a 1-2 week temp comparison after initial pasting.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 4, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> pump out for one... I hate having to repaste my gpu / cpu every few months because the temps start to creep.  Maybe a 1-2 week temp comparison after initial pasting.


This has been enough of a discussed point, and I don't have enough time to do weeks long testing. I'm willing to look for it and take photos to show what each looks like post-testing. Honestly, I'm not expecting to find it, but I will look. The testing I did recently in the other TIM thread gave me chance to see the MX-5 after it had been on that CPU for more than a year. It looked fine. That PC, even though older, still gets frequent use as a gaming system for the younger kids in my family.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 4, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> pump out for one... I hate having to repaste my gpu / cpu every few months because the temps start to creep.  Maybe a 1-2 week temp comparison after initial pasting.


Do you use the bare minimum amount of paste, or add extra?
I'm curious if my application method having 'extra' is why i suffer less from that?

(I do a perfectly flat thin spread using plastic, and then add a small blob to the center)


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 4, 2022)

Mussels said:


> (I do a perfectly flat thin spread using plastic, and then add a small blob to the center)



interesting, never heard of that one. lol

ever since 2500k days I just do a big pea size blob in middle and then tighten the screws slowly taking turns on w.e heatsink using. never had any issues myself. 

i been considering trying a different method for this build though.


----------



## phanbuey (Nov 4, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Do you use the bare minimum amount of paste, or add extra?
> I'm curious if my application method having 'extra' is why i suffer less from that?
> 
> (I do a perfectly flat thin spread using plastic, and then add a small blob to the center)


I usually use an X on the CPU and a spread on the gpu die just to make sure i get everything covered.  I've had good luck with tfx but other pastes not as much - even MX-5 pumped out on the 3080 after about 2 months.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 4, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> I usually use an X on the CPU and a spread on the gpu die just to make sure i get everything covered.  I've had good luck with tfx but other pastes not as much - even MX-5 pumped out on the 3080 after about 2 months.



have you considered the LGA1700 bracket from TG or thermaltake? apparently LGA1700 socket really benefits from this contact frame bracket. that might stop that problem too.

i'm still considering it myself. not sure yet.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 4, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> I usually use an X on the CPU and a spread on the gpu die just to make sure i get everything covered.  I've had good luck with tfx but other pastes not as much - even MX-5 pumped out on the 3080 after about 2 months.


The X is extremely hard to get an even line across the whole length, and might be part of the issue
If you have thinner/less paste at the top, gravity is going to slowly send it down and leave you with the pump out effect, aka gravity and heat slowly gave you an air pocket

you should definitely try other methods and see if it helps, any uneven spreading is going to make the pump out effect happen a lot faster


----------



## phanbuey (Nov 4, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> have you considered the LGA1700 bracket from TG or thermaltake? apparently LGA1700 socket really benefits from this contact frame bracket. that might stop that problem too.
> 
> i'm still considering it myself. not sure yet.


Actually I have one - works pretty well.  the CPU with the X is actually the best performing one.  The pump out happens on the GPU, which is sad because it's the biggest pain to replace...


----------



## maxfly (Nov 4, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Fair enough. I'm ordering a tube and am going to do my standard run of tests. Will compare MX-5, NT-H1, CMCFV and the Dragon stuff against MX-6 in my T3500. Results might be interesting or perhaps boring. We shall see.
> 
> 
> See right above. We both have MX-5 and we both have NT-H1 so we can compare those directly. My testing system is a Dell T3500 with a W3680 which I can softOC with ThrottleStop. Maybe we can do some comparisons with and without an OC? Do you still have the 9900KF stated in your specs?


I do have the 9900kf, but it's under water with hard tubing, so yeah...pita.
My test rig is an i7 8086k with Thermalright peerless assassin 120se (I may swap it out for noctua nh u12a for simplicity)and Asrock z390 phantom gaming 9 mb. I can clock the 8086k to whatever is needed.
I generally only run aida64 mostly because I've grown incredibly lazy in my old age but I'm open to whatever is agreed upon.

Regarding my most recent opportunity to observe pump out (after several years), using MX-4. I just swapped the rtx2070 (3 or 4 weeks ago)from my wced main rig to the air cooled test rig. I pulled the block and reinstalled the stock cooler. I didn't see any pump out on the wb after roughly, ugh, guesstimating 3- 3 1/2 years possibly longer. Coverage was uniform, the paste was evenly dispersed with only a very thin amount around the perimeter from the initial application. Paste was still spreadable and in great condition. It was easily removed with a wash cloth and 91% alcohol.

I have had the TR pa 120se installed on the test rig for roughly 4 weeks so I will also check that when I pull it (I'll take some pics as well, be warned I'm a terrible photographer). The pa 120se has prolimatech pk3 applied.
I apply a short thin line on one side of the die or ihs depending on the product. Then use a spatula to spread it as thinly and evenly as possible. I leave about 1/16th of an inch of the perimeter bare. Allowing for the inevitable excess to finish the job. Any small amount of tim left on the spatula, I apply to the middle of the block or heatsink. This generally results in a very thin layer with a small amount of tim being squeezed out around the edges. I've found that excess paste around the die/ihs edge is virtually impossible to avoid but it can be mitigated.

Edit- so sorry for the book.


----------



## Pictus (Nov 4, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> pump out for one... I hate having to repaste my gpu / cpu every few months because the temps start to creep.  Maybe a 1-2 week temp comparison after initial pasting.



A PCM thermal paste will have longer lifespan for your GPU, it has long molecular chains, so it will not pump-out easily.
People have being using Honeywell PTM7950 with laptops/notebook with great results.
But I would try the new Halnziye HY-P16 because it has better proprieties.
TIP, because the Halnziye HY-P16 has solvent, apply it a night and in the morning it will be dry and ready to mount
the cooler, apply a paper thin film over the GPU die.
The PCM is some sort of polymer that melts at +-+45ºC and do some "magic".


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Nov 4, 2022)

@lexluthermiester and @maxfly maybe try Cinebench? It seems to be accepted as the "worst-case real-world" situation for temps.


----------



## P4-630 (Nov 4, 2022)

erocker said:


> If it can beat Syy or Kryonaut I'll get some.


The Kryonaut Extreme pink bubblegum then.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 4, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> Actually I have one - works pretty well.  the CPU with the X is actually the best performing one.  The pump out happens on the GPU, which is sad because it's the biggest pain to replace...



would you recommend I get the lga 1700 contact frame? i been on the fence about it for awhile. i feel like its main benefit is AIO's, with air coolers being a secondary thought. not sure though.


----------



## phanbuey (Nov 4, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> would you recommend I get the lga 1700 contact frame? i been on the fence about it for awhile. i feel like its main benefit is AIO's, with air coolers being a secondary thought. not sure though.


check how the paste pattern is on the chip and cooler.  If you're seeing uneven spread like I was then it's worth it.






if it looks pretty even then it won't do all that much:


----------



## freeagent (Nov 4, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> have you considered the LGA1700 bracket from TG or thermaltake





You mean Thermalright! They are not in the same lowly league as Thermaltake...


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 4, 2022)

freeagent said:


> You mean Thermalright! They are not in the same lowly league as Thermaltake...



oops, yes that is what i meant. same thing happens to me with seasonic and seagate all the time, lmao



phanbuey said:


> check how the paste pattern is on the chip and cooler.  If you're seeing uneven spread like I was then it's worth it.
> 
> View attachment 268546
> 
> ...



i am going to keep an eye on this. its annoying we have to do this.


----------



## phanbuey (Nov 4, 2022)

IMO Thermalright is bascially noctua with no marketing dept.  All of their products are ridiculously good but no one knows about them.

Actually my favorite paste right now is thermalright tfx


----------



## Nike_486DX (Nov 4, 2022)

Pictus said:


> A PCM thermal paste will have longer lifespan for your GPU, it has long molecular chains, so it will not pump-out easily.
> People have being using Honeywell PTM7950 with laptops/notebook with great results.
> But I would try the new Halnziye HY-P16 because it has better proprieties.
> TIP, because the Halnziye HY-P16 has solvent, apply it a night and in the morning it will be dry and ready to mount
> ...


to avoid all that nonsense you can just use liquid metal, its a superior thing if you know how to use it. 1 year on a rx 580, still same temps as day 1


----------



## freeagent (Nov 4, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> IMO Thermalright is bascially noctua with no marketing dept.


Actually, it's the other way around, Thermalright was first 

I remember the first Noctua review that I saw and thought they totally ripped off Thermalright   

I tried their D14 and thought it was overhyped.

But that's what happens when you don't put a patent on anything, you get robbed.


----------



## phanbuey (Nov 4, 2022)

I just did a budget build with a peerless assassin 120 for $40 and the included stock thermal right paste (TF8 or 9)... thing was keeping a HOT 10850K easily under 80C in Cinebench- the guy i built it for is happy as a clam.  Was really worried about  the heat of that chip, but no issue.


----------



## doyll (Nov 4, 2022)

"Thermalright is bascially noctua with no marketing dept" really sums it up quite well.  Maybe add "and support dept."  While they do give decent support it can be time consuming.  I have wondered if it was a cultural thing but don't know.

Indeed, Thermalright was started in 2001 while Noctua was established in 2005.  
I found NH-D14 to perform same as original Silver Arrow.  NH-D15 is a couple degrees cooler but also has higher speed / higher rate of airflow.  Comparison testing of NH-D14 and NH-D15 with same fans showed NH-D14 to perform same to 2c better than NH-D15.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 4, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> I just did a budget build with a peerless assassin 120 for $40 and the included stock thermal right paste (TF8 or 9)... thing was keeping a HOT 10850K easily under 80C in Cinebench- the guy i built it for is happy as a clam.  Was really worried about  the heat of that chip, but no issue.


I am using one on my X3D, pretty decent... not quite as good as FC140, but I have a mount coming for that, since I broke mine with my He-Man strength  

For the price though, you absolutely cannot go wrong! I tried it with my 5900X too at full limits, not bad, still kept it under 90 

Edit:

That is with the stock ARGB fans, I haven't tried anything stronger yet


----------



## jayjr1105 (Nov 4, 2022)

Hmm, order 8g and be here tomorrow or 4g and be here next Wed.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 4, 2022)

maxfly said:


> My test rig is an i7 8086k with Thermalright peerless assassin 120se


Ah ok, That should work.


maxfly said:


> I can clock the 8086k to whatever is needed.


Let's do a fair OC. I'll do runs at 4ghz, the best I can get fully stable for that system and you do the same.


maxfly said:


> I generally only run aida64 mostly because I've grown incredibly lazy in my old age but I'm open to whatever is agreed upon.


Let do testing everyone can freely do themselves. AIDA64 is good but it's also a paid app and I like to do testing everyone can easily and free replicate with their own systems. That one of the reasons I use Prime95. 



Count von Schwalbe said:


> @lexluthermiester and @maxfly maybe try Cinebench? It seems to be accepted as the "worst-case real-world" situation for temps.


That sounds good.

@maxfly 
I'm down with Cinebench. Say R15 Extreme?








						Cinebench R15 Extreme Edition Download
					

Download Cinebench R15 Extreme Edition - This is a modded version of CB15 with a quadrupled workload....




					www.guru3d.com


----------



## mechtech (Nov 4, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> pump out for one... I hate having to repaste my gpu / cpu every few months because the temps start to creep.  Maybe a 1-2 week temp comparison after initial pasting.


I haven’t repasted mine ever.  Going on 6 years now. Probably old mx2 in there if I had to guess.


----------



## maxfly (Nov 4, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ah ok, That should work.
> 
> Let's do a fair OC. I'll do runs at 4ghz, the best I can get fully stable for that system and you do the same.
> 
> ...


Sounds good, I will try to get everything set up so all I have to do is start testing once I get home next weekend.


----------



## phanbuey (Nov 4, 2022)

mechtech said:


> I haven’t repasted mine ever.  Going on 6 years now. Probably old mx2 in there if I had to guess.


MX2 didn't pump out.  It's more the modern pastes that do... They perform AWESOME for afew weeks and then degrade.  Ceramique, MX2 AS5 etc. none of that stuff ever pumped out on me.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 4, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> MX2 didn't pump out.  It's more the modern pastes that do... They perform AWESOME for afew weeks and then degrade.  Ceramique, MX2 AS5 etc. none of that stuff ever pumped out on me.



so why don't you go back to AS5 or MX2, they still make both to my knowledge.


----------



## phanbuey (Nov 4, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> so why don't you go back to AS5 or MX2, they still make both to my knowledge.


That would make way too much sense.  I WANT THE NEW STUFF.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 4, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> That would make way too much sense.  I WANT THE NEW STUFF.



I know your pain. I have no need for MX-6, at all, its more just part of the fun of the hobby. lol


----------



## freeagent (Nov 4, 2022)

AS5 is ok, it needs to be able to conduct heat a little better with these newer chips. I found it lost its grip on my 5900X at about 200w or so. Outside of that it is hella stable after it cures and it lasts forever  NTH1 was my first experience with pumpout.


----------



## mechtech (Nov 4, 2022)

Get cpu and cooler surfaced ground to machinist gauge block tolerance.   Don’t need paste then.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Nov 4, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> I usually use an X on the CPU and a spread on the gpu die just to make sure i get everything covered.  I've had good luck with tfx but other pastes not as much - even MX-5 pumped out on the 3080 after about 2 months.



GPU's are tricky because fluid compounds can't grab onto the highly polished surface of a bare die, hence why the OEM compound is that usually-pink (IME) semi-solid patch.


----------



## nomdeplume (Nov 4, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I know your pain. I have no need for MX-6, at all, its more just part of the fun of the hobby. lol



I should openly apologize to our test coordinator for making the first comment on front page article.  

Teal would be so interesting though.  I was absolutely wondering what color it was and if it had sparkles.  AS5 has ugly dull grey sheen and texture of something freshly escaped from the backside of a pigeon.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 5, 2022)

@phanbuey I went on ahead and bought the LGA1700 Contact Frame, the MX-6 paste will be spread perfect now and I won't have to worry if I need it or not. $12, not end of world. I still find it annoying we have to buy this to save 5 celsius/fix Intel's problem, Intel should have stepped up and offered their own variant of the contact frame very cheaply like $5 shipped. Cause at end of day, this was their mistake, not the consumer.

Regardless, its done now, so eh. It is what it is. I read lots of reviews on the contact frame, and I think it will benefit me. I'm still trying to decide if I want to get a 280mm AIO for the top of my case, or just stick with my budget cooler the V5... I'm not overclocking, and most likely will even be doing a very small undervolt. So, I think the V5 will be fine since all I am doing is gaming. We'll see. If I see 80 celsius when gaming, I am going to invest in a 280mm AIO I think. I want to see 72-74 celsius max when gaming. I know it doesn't matter. It's more of a personal thing, I like my rig to not run super hot.


----------



## phanbuey (Nov 5, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> @phanbuey I went on ahead and bought the LGA1700 Contact Frame, the MX-6 paste will be spread perfect now and I won't have to worry if I need it or not. $12, not end of world. I still find it annoying we have to buy this to save 5 celsius/fix Intel's problem, Intel should have stepped up and offered their own variant of the contact frame very cheaply like $5 shipped. Cause at end of day, this was their mistake, not the consumer.
> 
> Regardless, its done now, so eh. It is what it is. I read lots of reviews on the contact frame, and I think it will benefit me. I'm still trying to decide if I want to get a 280mm AIO for the top of my case, or just stick with my budget cooler the V5... I'm not overclocking, and most likely will even be doing a very small undervolt. So, I think the V5 will be fine since all I am doing is gaming. We'll see. If I see 80 celsius when gaming, I am going to invest in a 280mm AIO I think. I want to see 72-74 celsius max when gaming. I know it doesn't matter. It's more of a personal thing, I like my rig to not run super hot.



If you do go for the 280MM aio, I highly recommend the x63 with the liquid temp sensor and use argus monitor to control fans and pump based on coolant temp.  I uninstalled the nzxt bloatware even - just this one proggy is amazing.

It's a life changer.  System runs so much cooler and quieter now, and the fans slowly spin up when appropriate to keep my liquid below 37C so during a gaming session when the water is getting warm they're just cruising at 1300RPM keeping everything cool - during desktop use they usually sit below 750, and no ramping up with random load spikes.  Lazy man's loop with coolant sensor. 

Peak Cinebench even went down 5C after gaming just because the liquid temp is so much better controlled this way.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 5, 2022)

phanbuey said:


> If you do go for the 280MM aio, I highly recommend the x63 with the liquid temp sensor and use argus monitor to control fans and pump based on coolant temp.  I uninstalled the nzxt bloatware even - just this one proggy is amazing.
> 
> It's a life changer.  System runs so much cooler and quieter now, and the fans slowly spin up when appropriate to keep my liquid below 37C so during a gaming session when the water is getting warm they're just cruising at 1300RPM keeping everything cool - during desktop use they usually sit below 750, and no ramping up with random load spikes.  Lazy man's loop with coolant sensor.
> 
> ...



Funny you mentioned the X63, I saw it on sale two days ago for $132, the 280mm variant. It will fit the top of my case, almost nabbed it. I may do it. That sounds pretty cool. I like that it has a dark purple glow infinity mirror too... will go beautifully with my white case and silver mobo... hence the Paladin system name under my system specs.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 5, 2022)

mechtech said:


> I haven’t repasted mine ever.  Going on 6 years now. Probably old mx2 in there if I had to guess.


To be fair, first gen ryzen didnt have the crazy heat issues that came later
2nd gen had that dumb +10c/+20c offset that made them report higher than they really were, for whatever goddamn reason

What's that argus monitor, a third party fan control software, or hardware specific thingy?


----------



## Pictus (Nov 5, 2022)

Nike_486DX said:


> to avoid all that nonsense you can just use liquid metal, its a superior thing if you know how to use it. 1 year on a rx 580, still same temps as day 1


Not everyone can use liquid metal, some GPUs have non-nickel plated copper parts and aluminum.




The liquid metal will react to the copper and corrode the aluminum.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 5, 2022)

Liquid metal also melted two pins off my 2700x (The one i repaired by using SATA wire as new pins)

While it's fantastic, it's also dangerous and therefore simply not worth it on hardware you aren't willing to lose


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 5, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Liquid metal also melted two pins off my 2700x (The one i repaired by using SATA wire as new pins)
> 
> While it's fantastic, it's also dangerous and therefore simply not worth it on hardware you aren't willing to lose



Yeah, I would never use Liquid Metal, just isn't worth the risk. I almost ruined my laptop trying it once a few years ago. lol

Not ever going to do it again.

Noctua has this for AM5 socket, not sure if LM might be easier to do on this or not, my guess is not, as that stuff can sneak into those little crevices still.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 5, 2022)

LM is on my GTX1080 and inside my laptop trouble free
It's damaged two CPU's (same motherboard - some leaked inside a socket pin and I didnt know at the time) and been safe everywhere else i've used it


IMO it's best for delidded CPU's where its contained, or on hardware you can replace if it goes bad


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 5, 2022)

Mussels said:


> LM is on my GTX1080 and inside my laptop trouble free
> It's damaged two CPU's (same motherboard - some leaked inside a socket pin and I didnt know at the time) and been safe everywhere else i've used it
> 
> 
> IMO it's best for delidded CPU's where its contained, or on hardware you can replace if it goes bad



The problem is accounting for all the variables when you do LM, like when I did LM I didn't realize it would literally squirt out of the dispenser for it... I thought it was going to be more precise than that... and it literally shot like 5 inches from where it was supposed to go lol, and getting it off the mobo was a nightmare. 

I could probably put it on my laptop now fine, but eh, im done with laptops and high temps so i don't care anymore. this is my last build for a solid 5-10 years. time to just chill and game. 

I do like that thermal grease cover Noctua developed though, if I had an AM5 socket I would def invest in that. just to make life easier.


----------



## mechtech (Nov 5, 2022)

Mussels said:


> To be fair, first gen ryzen didnt have the crazy heat issues that came later
> 2nd gen had that dumb +10c/+20c offset that made them report higher than they really were, for whatever goddamn reason
> 
> What's that argus monitor, a third party fan control software, or hardware specific thingy?


hmmmm

So if I go to a 5600 cpu what paste would last me at least 6 years then?


----------



## P4-630 (Nov 5, 2022)

mechtech said:


> hmmmm
> 
> So if I go to a 5600 cpu what paste would last me at least 6 years then?



The regular Kryonaut I used from 2018 till 2022 (upgrades).

I'd buy Kryonaut Extreme pink bubblegum (long term durability)








						Thermal Grizzly High Performance Cooling Solutions - Kryonaut Extreme
					

Hochwertige Wärmeleitlösungen für Computerchips




					www.thermal-grizzly.com
				




If you don't care much about a posssible few degrees higher running CPU you could still use Arctic Silver 5, it's really long lasting stuff, used it on my dads PC back in 2010, still runs today, now almost 2023.....


----------



## phanbuey (Nov 5, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> The regular Kryonaut I used from 2018 till 2022 (upgrades).
> 
> I'd buy Kryonaut Extreme pink bubblegum (long term durability)
> 
> ...


So I used the pink Kryonaut extreme on my gpu and it definitely is better long term than the mx5 and the regular Kryonaut (much better than regular Kryonaut) - lasted about 6 months before fan started getting annoyingly loud again and temps creeping up.

Ran really well on the cpu though - no pump out or temp difference vs fresh paste on the 12600k after 6 months and was still nice and gooey when I took off the aio even in areas where it was thin.

I think the msi Ventus cooler design is just not that great at keeping paste - the original reason for repasting was that the card got much louder as it aged and ram temps were out of control due to inferior thermal pads - that oem paste was basically dry clay on the gpu when I opened it up.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Nov 5, 2022)

mechtech said:


> hmmmm
> 
> So if I go to a 5600 cpu what paste would last me at least 6 years then?



Another vote for AS5.


----------



## Blaeza (Nov 5, 2022)

80-watt Hamster said:


> Another vote for AS5.


I asked Arctic for a tester of AS5 and got told it was EoL. I've got MX2 and MX4, wanted MX5 for the collection lol.


----------



## MachineLearning (Nov 5, 2022)

mechtech said:


> hmmmm
> 
> So if I go to a 5600 cpu what paste would last me at least 6 years then?


MX-2, AS5, Ceramiqué 2, MX-4. 
Ceramiqué 2 is the absolute thickest paste I've used, if you only care about pump-out, but performance is mediocre.
If longevity and consistency is all you care about, grab some Shin-Etsu or Dow Corning.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Nov 5, 2022)

Blaeza said:


> I asked Arctic for a tester of AS5 and got told it was EoL. I've got MX2 and MX4, wanted MX5 for the collection lol.



MX-5 and Arctic Silver 5 are different products, made by different companies. AS5 is definitely available.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 5, 2022)

My MX-6 just arrived, it had a rather neat security feature on the box, an authenticity check QR code, but half of it was like a scratch off lottery ticket, it makes you scratch it off then scan to check for authenticity, and it says if this is fully visible do not use (I think, I just threw away the box).

fascinating, never seen that hardcore level of security even for my expensive headphones, let alone some cheap paste. kind of a nice touch though, well done Arctic.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 6, 2022)

mechtech said:


> hmmmm
> 
> So if I go to a 5600 cpu what paste would last me at least 6 years then?


very few

Longest shelf life are the waxy types OEM use, MX4 has a long shelf life and might stay stable that long - assuming you have a solid contact and the cooler never gets jostled around breaking the seal


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 6, 2022)

Mussels said:


> very few
> 
> Longest shelf life are the waxy types OEM use, MX4 has a long shelf life and might stay stable that long - assuming you have a solid contact and the cooler never gets jostled around breaking the seal



thats one thing i really like about the reference design rx 6000 gpu's and the playstation 5. the gpu's use graphite that never needs replaced (as long as you never open it and break the seal) and the ps5 uses liquid metal which should never need replaced either.

i think this is a good way to do things really.


----------



## mechtech (Nov 6, 2022)

Mussels said:


> very few
> 
> Longest shelf life are the waxy types OEM use, MX4 has a long shelf life and might stay stable that long - assuming you have a solid contact and the cooler never gets jostled around breaking the seal


I think there is mx-2 on there now.  But ya, case never gets moved, just sits there. 

I don't mind re-pasting every 3yrs +, but I would not want to do it every year.  How long does MX-4 last for?  I think I have a new tube of that.

hmmmm or MX-6?
"Each application can stay in place for 8 years (maintain conductivity and viscosity)."


----------



## ThrashZone (Nov 6, 2022)

Hi,
Goodie more hype on a less than 20.us item


----------



## MachineLearning (Nov 9, 2022)

I think the units are off for MX-6 viscosity on Arctic's site & spec sheet.



MX-6, pretty sure that is supposed to be centipoise (cP) or 450 poise.

MX-4:




MX-5:




Also interesting, the specs they choose to include and their order has changed over time. And thermal conductivity ratings are gone - they were interesting to compare between Arctic pastes.


----------



## Calenhad (Nov 9, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> thats one thing i really like about the reference design rx 6000 gpu's and the playstation 5. the gpu's use graphite that never needs replaced (as long as you never open it and break the seal) and the ps5 uses liquid metal which should never need replaced either.
> 
> i think this is a good way to do things really.


Thermal Grizzly sell reusable graphite "pads" for cpu/gpu usage. So it is possible to go that route


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 9, 2022)

MachineLearning said:


> I think the units are off for MX-6 viscosity on Arctic's site & spec sheet.
> View attachment 269184
> MX-6, pretty sure that is supposed to be centipoise (cP) or 450 poise.
> 
> ...



colour blue? i wonder if that is referring to the outside of the mx-6 tube, that is blue. but the paste itself, color is silver/gray on my end. I know I got a legit tube, it was shipped by amazon and sold by Arctic.  hmmm.  

oh wait. the other two say gray... the last one says blue. and now i just figured out what you are talking about lol... its not matching up.

hmm odd. I have no idea on that. I am pretty sure my tube is legit mx-6 though.



Calenhad said:


> Thermal Grizzly sell reusable graphite "pads" for cpu/gpu usage. So it is possible to go that route



I have tried a graphite pad a couple years ago, and I got 3-5 celsius worse than paste. probably doesn't matter to most people, but I want my CPU to stay as cold as I can get it. hence this thread really, just fun hobby to try and find the best paste. at end of day though, it doesn't matter. 

the only tests i am going to do this time are nt-h2 vs nt-h1 vs mx-6.  those are only 3 pastes I will be testing this run. i think i am done messing around with pastes and temps after this run. just getting kind of tired of it.


----------



## maxfly (Nov 9, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> colour blue? i wonder if that is referring to the outside of the mx-6 tube, that is blue. but the paste itself, color is silver/gray on my end. I know I got a legit tube, it was shipped by amazon and sold by Arctic.  hmmm.
> 
> oh wait. the other two say gray... the last one says blue. and now i just figured out what you are talking about lol... its not matching up.
> 
> ...


The blue paste is the mx-5. Its purdy


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 9, 2022)

maxfly said:


> The blue paste is the mx-5. Its purdy



I know mx-5 is blue. I think I am just confused here. Nevermind, I am tired... and on that note, gnite actually lol


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 9, 2022)

So my tube of MX-6 arrived. Testing will begin in a few days(busy currently IRL).

@maxfly 
How about you?


----------



## jayjr1105 (Nov 9, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> So my tube of MX-6 arrived. Testing will begin in a few days(busy currently IRL).
> View attachment 269302
> @maxfly
> How about you?


Curious about viscosity.  MX5 had more of a sticky-ness to it.  MX4 was easier to spread


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 9, 2022)

jayjr1105 said:


> Curious about viscosity.


I will give details of what is observed.


jayjr1105 said:


> MX5 had more of a sticky-ness to it.


I didn't have that experience. It was a bit gooey, but I wouldn't call it "sticky". Still, did a great job.


jayjr1105 said:


> MX4 was easier to spread


True, MX-4 is easy to work with.


----------



## maxfly (Nov 9, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> So my tube of MX-6 arrived. Testing will begin in a few days(busy currently IRL).
> View attachment 269302
> @maxfly
> How about you?


Mine came last Saturday not quite as pristine as yours thanks to the giant bubble envelope it was shipped in (box is torn up)but the tube itself is gtg. Things are looking good for this weekend! Altho, I'm going to go with the noctua u12a for testing. It's just faster to pop on and off vs the assassin.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 9, 2022)

maxfly said:


> Mine came last Saturday not quite as pristine as yours thanks to the giant bubble envelope it was shipped in (box is torn up)but the tube itself is gtg. Things are looking good for this weekend! Altho, I'm going to go with the noctua u12a for testing. It's just faster to pop on and off vs the assassin.


Sounds good! I'm aiming for Saturday to do the testing and will post results Sunday.

Just to be clear we're doing Prime95 with Small FFT mode and Cinebench R15 Extreme, yes?


----------



## maxfly (Nov 9, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Sounds good! I'm aiming for Saturday to do the testing and will post results Sunday.
> 
> Just to be clear we're doing Prime95 with Small FFT mode and Cinebench R15 Extreme, yes?


Yep, that's what I've got on the schedule


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 10, 2022)

There are some initial results on another website I was reading about that say its about 3-5 celsius better than MX-4. So I am very curious to check back in here Sunday and see results from you two.


----------



## ir_cow (Nov 10, 2022)

Why do I feel like MX-6 is just MX-5 rebranded?


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Nov 10, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> Why do I feel like MX-6 is just MX-5 rebranded?


Pretty quick to develop an all-new formulation! Probably just tweaked for more stable production and a rebrand if I had to guess.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 10, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> Why do I feel like MX-6 is just MX-5 rebranded?


It's not. For starters, it's grey not blue. I'll detail more in my review this weekend.


----------



## ir_cow (Nov 10, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> It's not. For starters, it's grey not blue. I'll detail more in my review this weekend.


Ah yes, removing the blue dye will fool them all ahha. I'm just saying mx5 was recalled / discontinued because of bad press performance issues in some batches. There is no coming back from that. They did exactly what I would do. Remove it from sale for a few months and rename it.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 10, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> Ah yes, removing the blue dye will fool them all ahha.


Well I haven't tested it yet, but that's a start. 


ir_cow said:


> I'm just saying mx5 was recalled / discontinued because of bad press performance issues in some batches.


I never had problems and bought a bunch of it. People over-react ALOT!..


ir_cow said:


> There is no coming back from that.


I disagree. Arctic is a company that makes quality products. Just because they had one problem doesn't mean the whole company is crap. They made good on returns, exchanges and swap outs. To me, that speaks well of them.

It think they should have stood their ground, and told everyone: " Hey, we had a bad batch, it's fixed. Let's get on with things." and then continued to make it.


ir_cow said:


> They did exactly what I would do. Remove it from sale for a few months and rename it.


The testing will tell the story. If the consistency is similar and the performance matches, then that might have been what they did.

I'm curious myself. If they did just rework the formulation and change/remove the colour, it would still be a good value as the performance of MX-5 was excellent!


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 10, 2022)

MX-6 was just good timing for me, not only can I use some now, but I know its fresh out of the factory and will legit last me 8+ years. Well, most likely it will. I plan to build this PC and just leave it with moderate dusting every 3 months. Building computers has become too stressful, I'm ready to be done. Now I just need to score me an RDNA3!


----------



## ir_cow (Nov 10, 2022)

I still have 2 unopened mx5 tubes that was sent to me. The first one was okay and seemed to be within 1c of the thermal grizzly. I don't like the gummy part. Hard to clean up and I'm repasting upwards of 5-6 times in one day sometimes.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 10, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> I still have 2 unopened mx5 tubes that was sent to me. The first one was okay and seemed to be within 1c of the thermal grizzly. I don't like the gummy part. Hard to clean up and I'm repasting upwards of 5-6 times in one day sometimes.


Fair enough. I imagine frequent repasting would get annoying.


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## Calenhad (Nov 10, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I have tried a graphite pad a couple years ago, and I got 3-5 celsius worse than paste. probably doesn't matter to most people, but I want my CPU to stay as cold as I can get it. hence this thread really, just fun hobby to try and find the best paste. at end of day though, it doesn't matter.


Not saying graphite pads are the new best thing. But for longevity they are an interesting option. No idea how those new Thermal Grizzly pads are compared to older ones. But if what you want is a no maintenance cooling solution, that will last the lifetime of the computer, then it could be worth a couple degrees.

My personal computers all have custom watercooling and I use KPx paste. So I am definetly not the target customer for graphite pads either. But I build enough computers for non-enthusiasts, such that a no maintenance solution is intriguing


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## MachineLearning (Nov 10, 2022)

ir_cow said:


> I still have 2 unopened mx5 tubes that was sent to me. The first one was okay and seemed to be within 1c of the thermal grizzly. I don't like the gummy part. Hard to clean up and I'm repasting upwards of 5-6 times in one day sometimes.


MX-2 is probably the easiest to clean up in my experience. 

Don't ever try Arctic Silver Ceramiqué 2 for benching. Thickest paste I've ever used.


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## jayjr1105 (Nov 10, 2022)

I'm going to hold off for now.  I still have a few tubes of GD900, plus a small amount of MX5 and Master Gel left.  I'm hoping the MX6 can bridge the gap and get close to Kryonaut.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 14, 2022)

Ok, the OC phase of testing for Arctic Cooling's new MX-6 is done. I ended up testing it against Arctic's own(and now discontinued) MX-5, Noctua's NT-H1 and CoolerMaster's CryoFuze Violet. The results were interesting.

Had to change the hardware config of the tests to get a stable OC from the W3680 in the Dell T3500. Hyperthreading, Speedstep and C-States were disabled in the BIOS. ThrottleStop 9.00 was used as newer versions do not work as well with my T3500. Not sure why. But Thanks to @unclewebb all the same for making such an amazing utility! In Throttlestop, the TDP was increased to 150W from 130W and the TDC(A) was increased to 130A from 115A. The multiplier was set to 31x133mhz for a final OC of 4133mhz, the best I can get on the system. A full system shut down and cool-off was done after every test to ensure no residual heat from a previous test was retained.

Here we go. First up are the Prime95 runs.

Since I had Cooler Master CryoFuze Violet already installed from the last series of testing, it came first.





Next was Arctic MX-6.




Next was Arctic MX-5.




Finally we have Noctua NT-H1.



These tests were done with a minimum of 5 minute runs, but I was curious about the temps and how low they were so a few tests were longer than others, which didn't seem to have any effect. However, the results are valid within the context of these tests. These numbers are still a good way to compare the the TIM's in question to each other.

Next up we have the CineBench R15 Extreme runs.

Again we have CMCFV.




Next MX6.




Next MX5.




And finally NTH1.




It seems Cinebench just doesn't stress the CPU as much as Prime95, which is why the temps didn't go as high. This was expected. Cinebench R23 did not want to run, perhaps because of Windows 7 or lack of AVX on the Xeon.

So as you can see, Arctic MX-6 is a very worthy followup and improvement to MX-5, which despite the batch problems and bad press, was an excellent TIM. I'm going to do another round of tests with all normal settings(no TS OCing) over in the Official TIM thread in a few days.

My personal take? I was very excited about MX-5 last year and MX-6 is even better. Nominal config system testing still needs to be done, but so far so good.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 14, 2022)

I have got my rig built. Just waiting on gpu now. I did use MX-6 though, so its good to hear this! Thanks for the results @lexluthermiester 

I am using the LGA 1700 Contact Frame, genuine version from Thermalright. So that should help me a little bit too. 

Looks like one of my 200mm fans is dead on arrival. This case has been sitting in its box new for a year or more now, I never used it until now. SO that is a bummer, but luckily, I have two spare 120mm that will replace it... and allow me to keep the other 200mm on the bottom, so eh its all good. Main thing is keep that air moving.


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## maxfly (Nov 14, 2022)

Great job Lex! 
I'm getting there, ran into some roadblocks but hoping to get at it tomorrow afternoon or evening.


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## Divide Overflow (Nov 15, 2022)

I bought 4g of MX-6 with the cleaner pads online from Amazon.  After delivery today I'm somewhat skeptical of Arctic's authenticity check.  The printing on my packaging was badly misaligned.  I've contacted Arctic's customer service to report this defect.   Is anyone else seeing something like this?


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## erocker (Nov 15, 2022)

I'd return that. The QR code being messed up isn't good either.


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## freeagent (Nov 15, 2022)

The grey coating isn't very thick, is it? You almost don't need to rub it off.


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## jayjr1105 (Nov 15, 2022)

Divide Overflow said:


> I bought 4g of MX-6 with the cleaner pads online from Amazon.  After delivery today I'm somewhat skeptical of Arctic's authenticity check.  The printing on my packaging was badly misaligned.  I've contacted Arctic's customer service to report this defect.   Is anyone else seeing something like this?
> 
> View attachment 269981


There is no way someone has already made a counterfeit copy lol.  It's genuine dude, just scratch off the gray and scan


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## freeagent (Nov 15, 2022)

What has me concerned is the temp spread between his cores. Thinking back to my x5690 running an H100 and AS5 I would see a 3-6c spread while using a higher vcore and being clocked a few hundred MHz higher. But I believe his spread is due to the heat sink itself.. but I could be wrong.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 16, 2022)

Divide Overflow said:


> Is anyone else seeing something like this?


Looks ok to me.



erocker said:


> I'd return that. The QR code being messed up isn't good either.


It's a scratch-off QR code.



jayjr1105 said:


> It's genuine dude, just scratch off the gray and scan


This.



freeagent said:


> What has me concerned is the temp spread between his cores. Thinking back to my x5690 running an H100 and AS5 I would see a 3-6c spread while using a higher vcore and being clocked a few hundred MHz higher. But I believe his spread is due to the heat sink itself.. but I could be wrong.


It's the IHS. The W3680 is not perfectly flat and I don't want to lap it. The heatsink is perfectly flat, but has a rough surface. Perfect testing case scenario for TIM's, which is why I use it. If a TIM performs well on THIS system, it will perform well on any system.

Below is the spread after removal;



CMCFV after testing.




MX6 after testing.
As you can see, the heat sink surface is rough but perfectly flat and the imprint of the IHS is uneven, but fortunately center-line.


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## Divide Overflow (Nov 16, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Looks ok to me.


Not my question, but thanks for your opinion.   


lexluthermiester said:


> It's a scratch-off QR code.


It's an authentication process that is badly compromised by poor packaging in my sample.  I was curious if anyone else was seeing something similar.

I've been pretty happy with my early batch of MX-5, although it does appear to be very gummy after use for a few months.  I'm sure I'll be equally happy with the MX-6 revision.


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## maxfly (Nov 16, 2022)

Divide Overflow said:


> Not my question, but thanks for your opinion.
> 
> It's an authentication process that is badly compromised by poor packaging in my sample.  I was curious if anyone else was seeing something similar.
> 
> I've been pretty happy with my early batch of MX-5, although it does appear to be very gummy after use for a few months.  I'm sure I'll be equally happy with the MX-6 revision.


If the scratch off is intact your gtg. My box is semi squashed on one end but the tape held it together. The QR scratch off on mine looks the same as yours. Not sure what your concerns are?

Alright, started off with Noctua Nt-H1 and swapped in the U12A for simplicity. The PA120se is bigger and harder the move around. Was a little slow getting HWINFO started with P95...Ima bit rusty. Idles were 26-27c across the board sorry. Load temps are where the meat n taters are at anyhow hehe.







And on to MX-5 next.







And finally MX-6







Ambient temps were kept at a steady 20c throughout testing.

Ive never used NT-H1 before this run and was I really surprised at how it glued itself to the friggin cpu! I had to reef on the hs to get it off. I couldn't twist or turn it for anything, I had to pull it straight up until it finally popped off. This is while the cpu was fresh off a p95 run so it was roasty, toasty at that, so something to keep in mind AM4 owners. Temps were fine of course but dayum that stuff didn't want to let go!

The tube of MX-5 I have is no different than the first time I used it initially. Very soft and the easiest to spread by far. Removing the hs of course leaves little melted cheesie like strings that can be a pita to chase around if you arent anticipating them...or have forgotten that it happens with this TIM. Temps were fine once again.

MX-6 was the thickest of the three and hardest to apply in a thin layer. It actually dropped the idle AND load temps which is unusual so I ran p95 a couple of more times for 9-10 minutes each just to see if there was something wonky going on. Nope nothing changed. So yeah, its solid stuff. Ill keep it on until I get a wild hair and or energetic enough to either swap heatsinks again or put PK3 back on. If I had to choose between these three and PK3 I would have a hard time choosing between MX-6 and PK3, I would probably still go with PK3 only because I like how easy it is to apply vs how much thicker the MX-6 is.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 16, 2022)

Well, this is great news. Really glad I went with MX-6 on this new build of mine. I like that its fresh from the factory too, I know I can leave it for 8 years and not worry. Hell, my dads all in one pc is ten years going strong and still runs fine on temps.

I found putting on the MX-6 to be more difficult than I was expecting too because of its thickness, so nice to know I am not alone in that regard, but it wasn't that big of a deal.

MX-6 + thermaltake contact frame + the extra fan in push/pull configuration instead of just leaving the one fan on the air cooler... its prob only 2-3 celsius gains for each of those alone... but together i am looking at 8-11 celsius better temps overall...

it adds up... that's for sure. of course this situation only applies to LGA 1700 socket with the contact frame, but yeah, that extra variable x3 adds up quite nicely. I will be surprised if my raptor lake breaks 70 celsius in witcher 3 max settings 1440p 165hz 165 fps... we will see... that is going to be first test I do, let it run for like 2-3 hours. just to test system stability. I will ride my horse into the big cities as well for most of that time, really load up the cpu that way. 

so glad I didn't go with AM5 for this 5-7 year build... I have a weird thing when it comes to high temps, it just bugs me to no end. can't stand it really. so seeing 95 celsius often would have made me insane. lol


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 16, 2022)

Divide Overflow said:


> Not my question, but thanks for your opinion.


Might have misunderstood me there. I meant that the QR code looks like it's legit.



jayjr1105 said:


> Curious about viscosity.





maxfly said:


> MX-6 was the thickest of the three and hardest to apply in a thin layer.


Should probably have touched on that. MX-6 is a thick, slightly dry paste. Took some effort to spread! Maxfly and I seem to have had a similar experience on that point.



CallandorWoT said:


> I know I can leave it for 8 years and not worry.


Yeah, that is likely going to be ok.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 16, 2022)

If you want we can move the convo to the official thermal paste thread. I think we have our answers? I'm ok if mods want to lock this thread, I have no idea why a thread on mx-5 and mx-6 reached 170k views, but here we are. I will leave it up to you. I am ready to game though, less testing, more gaming. Nice to know I got my paste sorted now though, lol

ty for all the testing everyone contributed to this thread. 

  

_(if you all still have the thread open when my rig is done, I will post my witcher 3 results with this paste) I usually pick the same spots in cities for my testing, so its still consistent results. _


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## MachineLearning (Nov 16, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Should probably have touched on that. MX-6 is a thick, slightly dry paste. Took some effort to spread! Maxfly and I seem to have had a similar experience on that point.


Good to hear. Probably bodes well for longevity, which is what I'm most interested in at this point (since it can't yet be answered  ). I prefer thicker pastes either way.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 16, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> If you want we can move the convo to the official thermal paste thread. I think we have our answers?


Agreed. As stated above, I'm going to post the nominal clock based tests over there.


CallandorWoT said:


> I have no idea why a thread on mx-5 and mx-6 reached 170k views


I think it was a combination of interest, excitement and then the controversy.


CallandorWoT said:


> ty for all the testing everyone contributed to this thread.


You're welcome! It was fun!



MachineLearning said:


> Good to hear. Probably bodes well for longevity, which is what I'm most interested in at this point (since it can't yet be answered  ). I prefer thicker pastes either way.


Agreed. It was challenge to spread but not really super difficult. I believe MX-6 might become the next AS5 in terms of longevity and performance/value. I had that hope for MX-5, but...


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## MachineLearning (Nov 16, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Agreed. It was challenge to spread but not really super difficult. I believe MX-6 might become the next AS5 in terms of longevity and performance/value. I had that hope for MX-5, but...


I seem to recall you working at a PC repair shop, do you often deal with laptops? Would you ever have a chance to test MX-6 in such a situation? 

Currently use MX-2 in my laptop because it performs better than MX-4 does in that use case, and I would replace it if something else is significantly better.


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## freeagent (Nov 16, 2022)

MachineLearning said:


> I seem to recall you working at a PC repair shop, do you often deal with laptops? Would you ever have a chance to test MX-6 in such a situation?
> 
> Currently use MX-2 in my laptop because it performs better than MX-4 does in that use case, and I would replace it if something else is significantly better.


TFX is what you want for a laptop


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## MachineLearning (Nov 16, 2022)

freeagent said:


> TFX is what you want for a laptop


Thick AF?


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## freeagent (Nov 16, 2022)

MachineLearning said:


> Thick AF?


Yup 

It’s actually the best TIM that I have used so far


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## MachineLearning (Nov 16, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Yup
> 
> It’s actually the best TIM that I have used so far


Suggested temp range seems great for anything (-250⁰c lower limit). I'll give it a go next time I shop for paste


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## thewan (Nov 16, 2022)

freeagent said:


> TFX is what you want for a laptop


I would say PTM 7950 has dethroned it, with it not only superior at extreme heat that laptops love to stay around, but way easier to apply.


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## Pictus (Nov 16, 2022)

thewan said:


> I would say PTM 7950 has dethroned it, with it not only superior at extreme heat that laptops love to stay around, but way easier to apply.


I agree.
PCM based thermal paste can last longer for high temperature stuff like GPU/notebook.
Halnziye HY-P16 probably has better performance than Honeywell PTM7950.


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