# AMD R9 390 Series To Launch Alongside Computex 2015



## btarunr (Mar 7, 2015)

AMD is preparing to time the launch of its next-generation Radeon R9 300 series with that of Computex 2015, in early June. The company had earlier planned to launch some products that are essentially price-adjusted rebrands of existing ones, such as the R9 380 series (being rebrands of R9 290 series on a slightly improved silicon), and the R9 370 series (being based on the "Tonga" silicon); but has decided to launch the two along with its flagship R9 390 series, based on a brand new silicon, around the same time. AMD's answer to the GTX TITAN-X from NVIDIA, the R9 390X will feature around 4,096 stream processors based on the Graphics CoreNext 1.3 architecture, and will implement an HBM (high-bandwidth memory) interface, with bandwidths in excess of 600 GB/s. 





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## GLD (Mar 7, 2015)

I want to replace my excellent 7850, but reading rebranding on most of the cards, idk?
I will be sticking with AMD/Sapphire gpu either way.


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## FrustratedGarrett (Mar 7, 2015)

Well, I wouldn't the R380 cards a rebrand. The Tonga GPU inside the R9 285 is different from the chip inside the R280. The R9 285 is slightly faster overall than the R9 280 and is more power efficient. We'll have to see, but you know, a sub $300 card that's both faster and more power efficient than the 290x would be nice!


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 7, 2015)

FrustratedGarrett said:


> The Tonga GPU inside the R9 285 is different from the chip inside the R280. *The R9 285 is slightly faster overall than the R9 280 and is more power efficient*.


That would be a resounding NO.
Tonga is about the most inefficient chip AMD has launched in recent years. The fact that the only single GPU cards lower in performance-per-watt are voltage-hiked Tahiti's should be an indicator. The R9 280 is a straight up rebrand of the HD 7950 Boost with a miniscule 23MHz lower base clock.


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## hardcore_gamer (Mar 7, 2015)

Yes, but can it play Crysis ? (at 4K, 60FPS)


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## FrustratedGarrett (Mar 7, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> That would be a resounding NO.
> Tonga is about the most inefficient chip AMD has launched in recent years. The fact that the only single GPU cards lower in performance-per-watt are voltage-hiked Tahiti's should be an indicator. The R9 280 is a straight up rebrand of the HD 7950 Boost with a miniscule 23MHz lower base clock.



You're worng! Here are the specs for ya:
http://techreport.com/review/26997/amd-radeon-r9-285-graphics-card-reviewed


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## erocker (Mar 7, 2015)

Is it AMD that's saying that the 390x is the answer to Nvidia's Titan X?

I hope they plan on releasing this lineup close to Computex as well, though I have a feeling they'll launch in fall sometime.. Bummer.


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 7, 2015)

erocker said:


> Is it AMD that's saying that the 390x is the answer to Nvidia's Titan X?


I think AMD's *only* official word is that it will launch in the first week of June (at Computex).


FrustratedGarrett said:


> You're worng! Here are the specs for ya:
> http://techreport.com/review/26997/amd-radeon-r9-285-graphics-card-reviewed
> 
> 
> ...


Total comprehension fail of your own argument or deliberate trolling?
You stated that the 285 is more power efficient than the 280. Wrong. The 280 doesn't appear on the graph so I pointed out that the 7950 listed is the same card.
The R9 280 is a rebranded HD 7950 Boost.
R9 280...................:  827 MHz core - 933 MHz Boost - 5000MHz memory effective.  GPU: Tahiti PRO. 32 ROP - 112 TMU - 1792 Core - 28 CU
HD 7950 Boost :  850 MHz core - 925 MHz Boost - 5000MHz memory effective.  GPU: Tahiti PRO. 32 ROP - 112 TMU - 1792 Core - 28 CU


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## bubbleawsome (Mar 7, 2015)

Now, to be fair HumanSmoke and FrustratedGarrett I'm going to try and take some fun out of this and point out that we really haven't seen a good tonga. The only ones we've seen are the failed 295mx's that will obviously suck power. I'm not saying the 285 was good or bad, but either way it was not tonga to it's full potential.


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## SirEpicWin (Mar 7, 2015)

I hope we see the 980Ti by then.


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## 64K (Mar 7, 2015)

hardcore_gamer said:


> Yes, but can it play Crysis ? (at 4K, 60FPS)



There's just no pleasing you gamers. Give them a GPU that can play Crysis and they just want more. I want more too. More is good.


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 7, 2015)

bubbleawsome said:


> Now, to be fair HumanSmoke and FrustratedGarrett I'm going to try and take some fun out of this and point out that we really haven't seen a good tonga. The only ones we've seen are the failed 295mx's that will obviously suck power. I'm not saying the 285 was good or bad, but either way it was not tonga to it's full potential.


No dispute there. It is safe to assume that Tonga, and any other revised silicon should offer some improvements, but the original contention was a single SKU ( R9 285) rather than efficiency of Tonga as a whole. The other point to consider is that if Tonga could offer a sizeable increase in performance per watt, why did AMD hamstring themselves by just releasing an underperforming R9 285 and a monumentally poor M295X that OEMs have avoided in droves to the point where it is offered in only two laptop models (Alienware 15) - and one of those isn't standard, and a less than stellar reputation for Apple? I'm pretty sure that having Nvidia destroy AMD's discrete mobile market share with the 965M/970M/980M wasn't planned.
If Tonga (PRO?) is die-fuzed then that begs a few questions. 1. Why was the full die not used, surely yields can't be that bad for a mid-range GPU?, 2. What are the chances that Apple accepts a salvage part as their top desktop graphics solution if a fully functioning part is available? 3. When has a salvage GPU (excepting the occasional ugly second tier salvage parts such as Cypress LE) demonstrated significantly worse performance-per-watt than the full die? ( GK 106 full die GTX 660 isn't significantly better than the GTX 650 Ti, GK 104's second salvage GTX 660 Ti has the same efficiency as the GTX 680, and AMD's own 256-bit Tahiti LE offers much the same efficiency as the 384-bit versions bearing in mind the clock difference)


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## 15th Warlock (Mar 8, 2015)

Whatever happens, I'm really excited about the release of cards from both teams at around the same time. I just hope AMD and Nvidia don't fuck us over and release overpriced cards to the market.

We need a healthy AMD to keep Nvidia in check, otherwise we would have $1500 or more expensive video cards only from the green team. If the 390X is fast enough to be a real contender to Titan-X, I'm positive an affordable, GM200 based 980Ti or even 1K series card will be released by Nvidia to counter that threat.

4K gaming on a single GPU? seems like we are headed that way regardless, what an exciting time to be a PC gamer!


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## GhostRyder (Mar 8, 2015)

Hopefully the HBM on the 390/X pans out well and gives the card a significant boost.  I am very interested in that more than anything on the card because it could be very sweet with that much bandwidth and that many Stream processors.  Not a bad combination though I am now upset they are waiting so long for even releasing SOMETHING.


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## TheGuruStud (Mar 8, 2015)

It's getting too late. Might as well not even bother releasing it lol.


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## bubbleawsome (Mar 8, 2015)

TheGuruStud said:


> It's getting too late. Might as well not even bother releasing it lol.


What? If this is anywhere near GM200 performance for about $500-600 it'll be amazing. Just because it's late to the party doesn't mean it's useless.


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## TheGuruStud (Mar 8, 2015)

bubbleawsome said:


> What? If this is anywhere near GM200 performance for about $500-600 it'll be amazing. Just because it's late to the party doesn't mean it's useless.



It's useless to 10s of thousands (100? idk sales figures lol) that have already bought GTXs. AMD has lost a lot of money being this late, again.


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## arbiter (Mar 8, 2015)

FrustratedGarrett said:


> Well, I wouldn't the R380 cards a rebrand. The Tonga GPU inside the R9 285 is different from the chip inside the R280. The R9 285 is slightly faster overall than the R9 280 and is more power efficient. We'll have to see, but you know, a sub $300 card that's both faster and more power efficient than the 290x would be nice!



Well for longest time r9 280's TDP was 200watts, when 285 was released they said 280 was now 250watt TDP to make the 190watt TDP of 285 look much better. Even with that questionable change in TDP's 285 only 20 watts in a lot of reviewers tests.



GhostRyder said:


> Hopefully the HBM on the 390/X pans out well and gives the card a significant boost.  I am very interested in that more than anything on the card because it could be very sweet with that much bandwidth and that many Stream processors.  Not a bad combination though I am now upset they are waiting so long for even releasing SOMETHING.



Well there is a thing as to much bandwidth. Don't need super huge pipe to get good performance outta a GPU, just need to use what you have efficiently.


If that rumored cooler is on this, would be worrisome that AMD is having to push card in to 350-400watt range. If that is the case it would indicated their future isn't look that great that they have to go to such power draw to remain competitive. I know some people won't care about draw, but a lot more people care then don't.


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## manofthem (Mar 8, 2015)

Very much looking forward to the release of the R9 390 series. Then I'll figure out which way I'll be going with my next gpu purchase(s). 

Come on AMD, bring some goodness


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 8, 2015)

bubbleawsome said:


> What? If this is anywhere near GM200 performance for about $500-600 it'll be amazing. Just because it's late to the party doesn't mean it's useless.


Leaving aside the Titan X, which is only really significant as a PR device and an insight into how the Maxwell architecture scales*, both camps should be releasing comparable product at the same time (390/390X v 980 Ti and maybe either a second salvage part or a 8GB/8Gbps GTX 980)

* Which shouldn't be too much of a surprise. GTX 980 has twice the resources of a GTX 960 and pretty much doubles its performance. Probably safe to assume that adding exactly 50% again will result in the same 50% performance increase.


TheGuruStud said:


> It's useless to 10s of thousands (100? idk sales figures lol) that have already bought GTXs. AMD has lost a lot of money being this late, again.


Another issue might be how deep AMD's price cuts go to shift current inventory. If they make the current crop attractive enough, a significant percentage of those that haven't bought Nvidia might well have blown their wad on 290/290X/295X2 by the time AMD roll out the new stuff.


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## mastrdrver (Mar 8, 2015)

hardcore_gamer said:


> Yes, but can it play Crysis ? (at 4K, 60FPS)



It just might since the 390s are suppose to have the new HBM (or what ever it is) that makes memory bandwidth something like 600 GB/s which should be more then enough for 60fps @ 4k.

Not sure if the 380s are going to get it as well but sure hope the rumors are wrong that they will not.


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## arbiter (Mar 8, 2015)

mastrdrver said:


> It just might since the 390s are suppose to have the new HBM (or what ever it is) that makes memory bandwidth something like 600 GB/s which should be more then enough for 60fps @ 4k.
> 
> Not sure if the 380s are going to get it as well but sure hope the rumors are wrong that they will not.



Its not all about memory bandwidth. Even with that doesn't mean it will be able to.


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## Daemmon (Mar 8, 2015)

^ this, even with crazy high bandwith you need the horsepower behind it.
I don't see this gen doing 60fps @ 4K on single card setups.


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## Toothless (Mar 8, 2015)

Shh.. It's okay electricity bill.. Maybe AMD will stop hurting you..


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## Ebo (Mar 8, 2015)

I dont care about what R9 390X costs, I dont care how much electricity it uses. 
I just want the POWER and see how the new type of ram works with that insane bandwith.

Now AMD put it up for sale, so we can move on otherwise I maight go for a crossfire setup of 2xR9 290 instead.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 8, 2015)

GLD said:


> I want to replace my excellent 7850, but reading rebranding on most of the cards, idk?
> I will be sticking with AMD/Sapphire gpu either way.



*AMD Radeon 300 Series Won’t Be A Rebrand, New GPUs Coming in June*

Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-r9-300-series-not-rebrands/#ixzz3TmOwvgRS


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## 64K (Mar 8, 2015)

GhostRyder said:


> Hopefully the HBM on the 390/X pans out well and gives the card a significant boost.  I am very interested in that more than anything on the card because it could be very sweet with that much bandwidth and that many Stream processors.  Not a bad combination though I am now upset they are waiting so long for even releasing SOMETHING.



It's just business. The 390/390x will be a beast. We will get to see it soon. Both AMD and Nvidia don't want to release a GPU that is seen as inferior and topped by the other side right off the bat so they do the dance of PR speak and "leaks" to test the water but time is money so they will release it soon if they're able too.


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## bogami (Mar 8, 2015)

Date of the issue continues to moves. That would be a good thing is has long been predicted.(R9-300)
Can not wait !for new TITAN killer. And finally the Nvidia Shares have fallen decently,  the prices is still to high for nVidia.
I hope that AMD will remain with their prices.
R-9 290x multi or single is total for 4K owne GPU , best you can buy!


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 8, 2015)

64K said:


> The 390/390x will be a beast.





bogami said:


> Date of the issue continues to moves. That would be a good thing is has long been predicted.
> Can not wait !for new TITAN killer. And finally the Nvidia Shares have fallen decently,  the prices is still to high for nVidia.
> I hope that AMD will remain with their prices.
> R-9 290x multi or single is total for 4K owne GPU , best you can buy!



The 290X can now be had for around 300$ which is excellent. I hope the 390X won't be much more than that. They can throw the 399.99$ price tag and call it a day.

It would be better if they release it now and not in 3 months but what can we do.......... Something is not ready yet.


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## vega22 (Mar 8, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> The 290X can now be had for around 300$ which is excellent. I hope the 390X won't be much more than that. They can throw the 399.99$ price tag and call it a day.
> 
> It would be better if they release it now and not in 3 months but what can we do.......... Something is not ready yet.



if it is near the titan z and they do it for for under $500 i would be shocked tbh.

sidenote, the 285 i played with was about 20/25% faster than the 7950 i had at the same speeds.

still not a patch on the 290x mind.


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## john_ (Mar 8, 2015)

GLD said:


> I want to replace my excellent 7850, but reading rebranding on most of the cards, idk?
> I will be sticking with AMD/Sapphire gpu either way.



I wouldn't expect too much rebranding. You need a Bonaire as minimum for Freesync and having GCN 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.X models in the 300 series, is too much complexity that you don't want to carry around in the future. I can see Tonga in the new series, but only that GPU, not even Hawaii. All the other models should be new GPUs.


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 8, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> *AMD Radeon 300 Series Won’t Be A Rebrand, New GPUs Coming in June*
> Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-r9-300-series-not-rebrands/#ixzz3TmOwvgRS


Except that the article they are quoting (Kitguru) has this direct quote: "At present details about the lineup are not clear, but expect several all-new graphics solutions to be unveiled, whereas some re-branded products will likely show up in the following months". Which is at odds with WTFtech's assertion - whose comprehension of what was said is lacking:


> AMD’s Gaming Scientist Richard Huddy had stated on several occasions that “all of AMD’s future GPUs will support FreeSync“.


This also doesn't contradict Kitguru. Rebrands aren't future GPUs....and that's assuming you take Huddy's pronouncements as set in stone.


bogami said:


> And finally the Nvidia Shares have fallen decently,


Are you sure you looked at the historical pricing chart the right way up?


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## sergionography (Mar 8, 2015)

Well that's also what I been hearing until I saw this
http://wccftech.com/amd-r9-300-series-not-rebrands/


Edit: oops just realized someone posted this already


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 8, 2015)

sergionography said:


> Well that's also what I been hearing until I saw this
> http://wccftech.com/amd-r9-300-series-not-rebrands/


That is the same link that was posted earlier.
WTFtech takes a Kitguru article, and makes an assumption based on two mutually exclusive facts.
Huddy says all future GPUs from AMD will support FreeSync (which should just be common sense). Kitguru - the article WTFtech is quoting, also says that there could be re-brands. Since rebrands use existing GPUs, it doesn't contradict what Huddy said. Huddy didn't say that the GPU line up for the 300 series would be all new silicon.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 8, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> That is the same link that was posted earlier.
> WTFtech takes a Kitguru article, and makes an assumption based on two mutually exclusive facts.
> Huddy says all future GPUs from AMD will support FreeSync (which should just be common sense). Kitguru - the article WTFtech is quoting, also says that there could be re-brands. Since rebrands use existing GPUs, it doesn't contradict what Huddy said. Huddy didn't say that the GPU line up for the 300 series would be all new silicon.



The sad thing is not this. 

The sad thing is that we are stuck on mature cheap old trash 28nm process and next-generation R9 400 series Arctic Islands are scheduled for H2 2016 release.


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## pidgin (Mar 8, 2015)

Delay is delay, no matter the reason.

Failure either way


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 8, 2015)

pidgin said:


> Delay is delay, no matter the reason.
> 
> Failure either way



Ridiculous to claim it a fail.

Everything depends on the prices. Even if they release rebrands but when they put them cheaply, that replaces the older cards from lower market segments.....

Even R9 390X can be marketed in a different way, so it becomes a mainstream affordable for everyone card pretty soon.


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## Daemmon (Mar 8, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> Ridiculous to claim it a fail.
> 
> Everything depends on the prices. Even if they release rebrands but when they put them cheaply, that replaces the older cards from lower market segments.....
> 
> Even R9 390X can be marketed in a different way, so it becomes a mainstream affordable for everyone card pretty soon.



Indeed, it's absolutely wrong to claim fail for several reasons.
No data released on performance, prices, noise, temps, consumption...

AMD release will def change the market, see how nVidia is already answering with that Gigabyte 960 with 4GB? Or the next Titan? or even the 2 new cards that have been teased/rumored from the 9xx series?

Don't get me wrong tho, I think AMD was a tad slow on this release (June? Really?) and I hope this extra time implies less rebrands on slightly improved silicon. Maybe the rumors of the only rebrand being Tonga are true, but we may have to wait for that.


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## pidgin (Mar 8, 2015)

THats what I'm talking about. The release date. Massive fail.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 8, 2015)

pidgin said:


> THats what I'm talking about. The release date. Massive fail.



AMD is small, they have not enough engineers, resources in general, free cash flow to help them with research and development, not very reliable partners - not offering next-generation manufacturing processes, etc, etc.

Actually, when everything is against AMD, they are doing true miracles even to achieve this in a so complicated world.


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## Daemmon (Mar 8, 2015)

pidgin said:


> THats what I'm talking about. The release date. Massive fail.



Well, still have to see what the release date brings to the table. If the performance/price relation beats nVidia (like it has been doing lately) and the performance is significantly better than r9 2xx series then it's going to be a good release.

If it's a low extra performance %, and just a couple of rebrands with higher price tag... then oh well

I think it's a pity Mantle died already tho, guess DX12 / Vulkan is our future.


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## ZoneDymo (Mar 8, 2015)

pidgin said:


> THats what I'm talking about. The release date. Massive fail.



makes no sense, with that way of thinking every company ever in the world fails massively, which in turn makes it a moot point to bring up


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 8, 2015)

Daemmon said:


> I think it's a pity Mantle died already tho, guess DX12 / Vulkan is our future.



I think Mantle serves its purpose quite well and pushed Microsoft, at least, to give some improvements away with DX12.

DX12 is promised to deliver 20% performance improvements.


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## GhostRyder (Mar 8, 2015)

arbiter said:


> Well there is a thing as to much bandwidth. Don't need super huge pipe to get good performance outta a GPU, just need to use what you have efficiently.





arbiter said:


> Its not all about memory bandwidth. Even with that doesn't mean it will be able to.


Memory bandwidth is very important and is becoming a bigger necessity than before due to the ever rising resolution of monitors, the higher requirements of ram in games, etc.  Having the higher memory bandwidth can make all the difference especially in situations where we are gaming at 1440p-2160p.  It may not be as necessary in all scenarios, but it is sure to give a nice boost and with our single GPU's already being as powerful as they are, the next generation are going to be on the edge of single GPU gaming at 4K (Titan X/1080 and R9 390X, though still probably not fluent 60hz).  Also in situations where your using 2+ cards its going to make even more of a difference.
But I am not saying memory bandwidth is everything and I agree it comes down to if the GPU can handle it, but I believe these next GPU's are going to start needing more and more bandwidth down the line.



64K said:


> It's just business. The 390/390x will be a beast. We will get to see it soon. Both AMD and Nvidia don't want to release a GPU that is seen as inferior and topped by the other side right off the bat so they do the dance of PR speak and "leaks" to test the water but time is money so they will release it soon if they're able too.


I agree, though I just thought the delay is taking a lot longer than I think it should.  But I feel they were not really forced to release something either and if nothing else they have been given a lot of time to work out the kinks which should be better for us end users.



john_ said:


> I wouldn't expect too much rebranding. You need a Bonaire as minimum for Freesync and having GCN 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.X models in the 300 series, is too much complexity that you don't want to carry around in the future. I can see Tonga in the new series, but only that GPU, not even Hawaii. All the other models should be new GPUs.


Well there are a lot of rumors surrounding this right now and we are kind of at a wall at the moment blocking us until we hear more.  Its already said that the R9 380X will be an upgraded Hawaii silicon but how its been phrased leaves a lot up in the air because it could just be a better binned Hawaii chip or it could be something has actually been changed on it for the better.  I will leave my judgment until we have a little more details before I make an assumption about the chips in the lineup.

Still, I am an impatient man and waiting on anything whether it be a new GPU or CPU just drives me nuts especially when we have been waiting for so long already.


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## sergionography (Mar 8, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> That is the same link that was posted earlier.
> WTFtech takes a Kitguru article, and makes an assumption based on two mutually exclusive facts.
> Huddy says all future GPUs from AMD will support FreeSync (which should just be common sense). Kitguru - the article WTFtech is quoting, also says that there could be re-brands. Since rebrands use existing GPUs, it doesn't contradict what Huddy said. Huddy didn't say that the GPU line up for the 300 series would be all new silicon.



No they r making the assumption based on the fact that rebrands do not require a delay till June, especially when amds Fiji chip is already pretty much ready and passed certification with only finishing touches left(which shouldn't take 3-4 month)




Sony Xperia S said:


> AMD is small, they have not enough engineers, resources in general, free cash flow to help them with research and development, not very reliable partners - not offering next-generation manufacturing processes, etc, etc.
> 
> Actually, when everything is against AMD, they are doing true miracles even to achieve this in a so complicated world.



I'm a huge amd fan and I sure love their open standards take in the market, however I do believe this is not the time for charity when they are dead broke.



Sony Xperia S said:


> I think Mantle serves its purpose quite well and pushed Microsoft, at least, to give some improvements away with DX12.
> 
> DX12 is promised to deliver 20% performance improvements.



Mantle is good and pushed the industry forward but business wise amd would've been better investing in New chips and architecture last year to better compete with nvidia, look how much money and market share they lost.



Daemmon said:


> Indeed, it's absolutely wrong to claim fail for several reasons.
> No data released on performance, prices, noise, temps, consumption...
> 
> AMD release will def change the market, see how nVidia is already answering with that Gigabyte 960 with 4GB? Or the next Titan? or even the 2 new cards that have been teased/rumored from the 9xx series?
> ...



No a fail is a fail, amd is almost one year late to the market and already lost junkload of money and market share for nvidia Simply because they thought they can compete with rebrands. Sure for us we can say lower prices on 200 series makes things good, but for amd it doesn't, because the 290x is more expensive to manufacture than gtx980 simply because it's bigger, and runs hotter and uses more power so it needs more sophisticated circuit design and cooling, so while it can be somewhat of a win for customers to have low prices, it remaims a loss for amd. So even though both gtx980 and r290x perform within 15% of each other, Maxwell architecture remains newer and more of an engineering feat because of its efficiency that's why it's winning no matter how u slice it, even if amd and nvidia have 50-50 share nvidia would still make more money Because it can offer more performance for cheaper(as in cheaper to manufacture) 250w power means u need a 250w circuit, a 250w capable cooler, and customers with 250w capable desktops(smaller target)


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## arbiter (Mar 8, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> I think Mantle serves its purpose quite well and pushed Microsoft, at least, to give some improvements away with DX12.
> 
> DX12 is promised to deliver 20% performance improvements.



MS had those improvements already in works before mantle was announced so it didn't do anything. No way MS could add those improvements in such a short amount of time.



GhostRyder said:


> Well there are a lot of rumors surrounding this right now and we are kind of at a wall at the moment blocking us until we hear more.  Its already said that the R9 380X will be an upgraded Hawaii silicon but how its been phrased leaves a lot up in the air because it could just be a better binned Hawaii chip or it could be something has actually been changed on it for the better.  I will leave my judgment until we have a little more details before I make an assumption about the chips in the lineup.



Likely it will be modified for DX12 but still mostly a rebrand. Without that would be worthless buy.



sergionography said:


> No a fail is a fail, amd is almost one year late to the market and already lost junkload of money and market share for nvidia Simply because they thought they can compete with rebrands. Sure for us we can say lower prices on 200 series makes things good, but for amd it doesn't, because the 290x is more expensive to manufacture than gtx980 simply because it's bigger, and runs hotter and uses more power so it needs more sophisticated circuit design and cooling, so while it can be somewhat of a win for customers to have low prices, it remaims a loss for amd. So even though both gtx980 and r290x perform within 15% of each other, Maxwell architecture remains newer and more of an engineering feat because of its efficiency that's why it's winning no matter how u slice it, even if amd and nvidia have 50-50 share nvidia would still make more money Because it can offer more performance for cheaper(as in cheaper to manufacture) 250w power means u need a 250w circuit, a 250w capable cooler, and customers with 250w capable desktops(smaller target)



Though not comfirmed, using amd's most efficient silicon which is tonga with 2048 gcn and 256bit bus, that is still about 200watt TDP part. they are doubling # of gcn cores and memory bus. so 390x could be in the 400watt TDP range. Which go back to the rumored AIO water cooler that leaked AMD was lookin' was workin on, that would seem to fit that they would need something along those lines to cools this. It will come down to how well it performance compared to titan X which could figure uses only aroud 225-250watt TDP tops.


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## Daemmon (Mar 8, 2015)

GhostRyder said:


> Memory bandwidth is very important and is becoming a bigger necessity than before due to the ever rising resolution of monitors, the higher requirements of ram in games, etc. Having the higher memory bandwidth can make all the difference especially in situations where we are gaming at 1440p-2160p. It may not be as necessary in all scenarios, but it is sure to give a nice boost and with our single GPU's already being as powerful as they are, the next generation are going to be on the edge of single GPU gaming at 4K (Titan X/1080 and R9 390X, though still probably not fluent 60hz). Also in situations where your using 2+ cards its going to make even more of a difference.
> But I am not saying memory bandwidth is everything and I agree it comes down to if the GPU can handle it, but I believe these next GPU's are going to start needing more and more bandwidth down the line.



The average card of the next gen will have more bandwith compared to previous gen, yes, this has been happening for a long time already. Resolution raises, and so does the bandwith needs to raise. But the alledged 600gb/s bandwith? Not yet, not until GPUs can take full advantage of it. It is amazing for SLI/Crossfire users, since it will def be a step in the right direction for 4K.

I'm actually wondering what would be the ideal bandwith for the current "dream", that being 60FPS @ 4K.


----------



## HumanSmoke (Mar 8, 2015)

sergionography said:


> No they r making the assumption based on the fact that rebrands do not require a delay till June


This whole issue isn't about technology, it is about inventory.
The manufacture of the cards wouldn't be a problem, what is a problem is that AMD under Rory Read stuffed the channel with products to make the books look good. Before any new cards can be accepted AIB/AIC's need to clear inventory. If "new" rebrands enter the channel alongside current SKUs what happens to sales of 200 series cards? The other alternative to order mass recalls, BIOS reflashing, and repackaging which would cut profit to the bone - assuming there was any to be made. The Kitguru article specifically mentions the unsold inventory as being a major reason AMD hasn't released new cards.


sergionography said:


> especially when amds Fiji chip is already pretty much ready and passed certification with only finishing touches left(which shouldn't take 3-4 month)


Shouldn't take 3-4 months yet AMD aren't launching the card until the first week of June, and AMD's own CFO, Devinder Kumar, states : “We are confident that *as we get into the second half of 2015 with the launch of that [new graphics] product*, we will gain back the market share which is low from my standpoint and historically,”
If finishing touches are all that is required then there must be another reason why the launch is still 3 months out, no?
What is painfully apparent is that AMD's partners have large quantities of unsold inventory that is either written off, or sold for an ever decreasing value as the Osborne effect exerts influence. AMD either takes the financial hit of another "one time" charge and launches new product, or sells cheap and hopes that people upgrade again within months when the 300 series arrive.


sergionography said:


> No a fail is a fail, amd is almost one year late to the market and already lost junkload of money and market share for nvidia Simply because they thought they can compete with rebrands.


They are linked. Downsizing a company ( scaling back/cutting projects, cutting down R&D - lest we forget Synopsys gained 150 AMD R&D engineers in their deal), and prioritizing console APU designs have put the company under considerable constraints. It is also the reason that AMD haven't fielded a top-to-bottom new GPU series since Evergreen in 2009-10.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 8, 2015)

sergionography said:


> I'm a huge amd fan and I sure love their open standards take in the market, however I do believe this is not the time for charity when they are dead broke.



You mean that they should not put low prices?



arbiter said:


> MS had those improvements already in works before mantle was announced so it didn't do anything. No way MS could add those improvements in such a short amount of time.



Let's first define what a short period is for you.


----------



## DeadSkull (Mar 8, 2015)

But how much ram?! I don't think 4Gb is enough for a flagship card since GTX 980 will soon be nVidia midrange card.


----------



## GhostRyder (Mar 8, 2015)

arbiter said:


> Likely it will be modified for DX12 but still mostly a rebrand. Without that would be worthless buy.


They sounds like they are doing more than just that but who knows until we have more details...  Point though is I doubt this would be a straight up re-badge.



arbiter said:


> Though not comfirmed, using amd's most efficient silicon which is tonga with 2048 gcn and 256bit bus, that is still about 200watt TDP part. they are doubling # of gcn cores and memory bus. so 390x could be in the 400watt TDP range. Which go back to the rumored AIO water cooler that leaked AMD was lookin' was workin on, that would seem to fit that they would need something along those lines to cools this. It will come down to how well it performance compared to titan X which could figure uses only aroud 225-250watt TDP tops.


Well if scaling in this area was linear then yes, but basing off the predictions the TDP is going to be ~350 but then again TDP is not power consumption and that could be much higher.  Depends on how they push it core wise and what the improvements actually yield since this is a new chip.  But just basing off the fact they are using an AIO does not mean much because they are likely just evolving to the next area for gaming card reference coolers since most people want everything as quiet as possible.



Daemmon said:


> The average card of the next gen will have more bandwith compared to previous gen, yes, this has been happening for a long time already. Resolution raises, and so does the bandwith needs to raise. But the alledged 600gb/s bandwith? Not yet, not until GPUs can take full advantage of it. It is amazing for SLI/Crossfire users, since it will def be a step in the right direction for 4K.
> 
> I'm actually wondering what would be the ideal bandwith for the current "dream", that being 60FPS @ 4K.


Well taking advantage of it means different things, I think though these high end cards are aimed at the extreme range which is where CFX/SLI users and extreme resolution users are.  It maybe a bit overkill in the lower areas and yes it will probably be a bit more than needed but this just means memory bandwidth won't be holding it back.  Plus we have to start somewhere with new tech...


DeadSkull said:


> But how much ram?! I don't think 4Gb is enough for a flagship card since GTX 980 will soon be nVidia midrange card.


I agree, I think 4gb might be the problem overall as its going to be running on the edge.  Right now its enough at 4K, but for how long is up in the air and honestly its making the Titan X (or eventual 1080/1080ti or whatever its going to be called) more appealing.  Going to be interesting none the less especially if we see some way they manage 8gb versions of the card.


----------



## eroldru (Mar 8, 2015)

FrustratedGarrett said:


> You're worng! Here are the specs for ya:
> http://techreport.com/review/26997/amd-radeon-r9-285-graphics-card-reviewed



This speaks for itself and it's taken from techreport
http://techreport.com/r.x/radeon-r9-285/power-load.gif


----------



## sergionography (Mar 8, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> This whole issue isn't about technology, it is about inventory.
> The manufacture of the cards wouldn't be a problem, what is a problem is that AMD under Rory Read stuffed the channel with products to make the books look good. Before any new cards can be accepted AIB/AIC's need to clear inventory. If "new" rebrands enter the channel alongside current SKUs what happens to sales of 200 series cards? The other alternative to order mass recalls, BIOS reflashing, and repackaging which would cut profit to the bone - assuming there was any to be made. The Kitguru article specifically mentions the unsold inventory as being a major reason AMD hasn't released new cards
> 
> They are linked. Downsizing a company ( scaling back/cutting projects, cutting down R&D - lest we forget Synopsys gained 150 AMD R&D engineers in their deal), and prioritizing console APU designs have put the company under considerable constraints. It is also the reason that AMD haven't fielded a top-to-bottom new GPU series since Evergreen in 2009-10.




I see where you are coming from and it's part of the reason why it could be new chips. Because if amd are having so much trouble selling this old inventory you think a rebrand of those same exact chips into r300 will make them sell any better? Idk about that. And if amd meant Fiji will gain them market share well that also is unlikely because it's gonna be an expensive top tier card that sure can make them money because of higher margin, but it won't be a high demand card as the numbers usualy go for the sub 300$ cards so there must be something drastic in that sector to even speak of market share. 




Sony Xperia S said:


> You mean that they should not put low prices?.



No I meant investing in free open standard developer tools and other perks that don't directly translate to sales. R&D instead at this point should be going solely on new architecture and socs. amd is putting too much effort into software when they only make their money out of hardware so while software is complimentary to the hardware I feel like they r a bit extravagant with it at such rough times.


----------



## arbiter (Mar 8, 2015)

DeadSkull said:


> But how much ram?! I don't think 4Gb is enough for a flagship card since GTX 980 will soon be nVidia midrange card.



Would probably expect maybe 8gb if they are targeting 4k but, if you look at 290x 4gb vs 8gb. Last i checked the 8gb have a 120$ price premium, 310$(4gb) vs 430$(8gb).



GhostRyder said:


> They sounds like they are doing more than just that but who knows until we have more details...  Point though is I doubt this would be a straight up re-badge.



If they don't add DX12 in to it, well it would be pretty much worthless buy knowing DX12 is coming in new few months after the gpu is out.



GhostRyder said:


> Well if scaling in this area was linear then yes, but basing off the predictions the TDP is going to be ~350 but then again TDP is not power consumption and that could be much higher.  Depends on how they push it core wise and what the improvements actually yield since this is a new chip.  But just basing off the fact they are using an AIO does not mean much because they are likely just evolving to the next area for gaming card reference coolers since most people want everything as quiet as possible.



They are doubling gcn cores, most likely doubling the memory path, so 400watts is very possible less they underclock it which probably what they will have to do. I would say it would be bit more linear on AMD side then would be nvidia. Also going by what hawaii which is 300watts and this new one has almost 50% more gcn cores so....  Those leaked pictures of cooler amd was supposed to working on, would support the idea could be that high.


----------



## Prima.Vera (Mar 9, 2015)

So basically only the 390 and 390X wont be re-brands?? Or the 380(X) also?


----------



## RejZoR (Mar 9, 2015)

No, even R9-380 will be brand new silicon. Maybe not as radical as 390/390X, but they won't be just old GPU's with new name in VGA BIOS.


----------



## mastrdrver (Mar 9, 2015)

arbiter said:


> Its not all about memory bandwidth. Even with that doesn't mean it will be able to.



Yes, but up until the bandwidth gets addressed, you can throw all the horsepower you want at 4k 60fps and it will not matter. This has been known for a while since multi monitor users have had the same problem.


----------



## arbiter (Mar 9, 2015)

Prima.Vera said:


> So basically only the 390 and 390X wont be re-brands?? Or the 380(X) also?



AMD said 380(x) will be matured version of hawaii silicon. So they could do some upgrades to it which would hope means DX12 to it but could be stuck with 11.2



mastrdrver said:


> Yes, but up until the bandwidth gets addressed, you can throw all the horsepower you want at 4k 60fps and it will not matter. This has been known for a while since multi monitor users have had the same problem.



As another person said, need the GPU horsepower to be able to take advantage of it.


----------



## dj-electric (Mar 9, 2015)

arbiter said:


> AMD said 380(x) will be matured version of hawaii silicon



When AMD say that, they mean nothing.
280X was supose to be "mature". It ended up being far less efficient than HD 7970 becuase all they did is jack the core clock up while taking 0 effort in efficiency improvements.

Same for R9 285.
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_960_G1_Gaming/images/perfwatt_1920.gif
It was supose to be a more "mature" silicon and it ended up being less efficient than its 2.5 year-old (at the time) brothers.

That leads me to believe that if a rebranded R9 290 and 290X will come out, they are most likely to consume the same or even more than the already ridicules Hawaii


----------



## mastrdrver (Mar 9, 2015)

arbiter said:


> AMD said 380(x) will be matured version of hawaii silicon. So they could do some upgrades to it which would hope means DX12 to it but could be stuck with 11.2
> 
> 
> 
> As another person said, need the GPU horsepower to be able to take advantage of it.



AMD said all GCN gpus will support DX12.

I'm not saying bandwidth alone will solve the problem. Though, I'm not disagreeing with the need for GPU horsepower, but without the bandwidth it's not going to help.


----------



## DeadSkull (Mar 9, 2015)

Dj-ElectriC said:


> When AMD say that, they mean nothing.
> 280X was supose to be "mature". It ended up being far less efficient than HD 7970 becuase all they did is jack the core clock up while taking 0 effort in efficiency improvements.
> 
> Same for R9 285.
> ...



Last time I saw a gpu architecture really "mature" was nVidia GF100 > GF110 improvement. Lower temp, reenabled shaders, same power draw with higher core clocks.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 9, 2015)

DeadSkull said:


> Last time I saw a gpu architecture really "mature" was nVidia GF100 > GF110 improvement. Lower temp, reenabled shaders, same power draw with higher core clocks.



That's why new revisions of the silicon are being made. To use an improved process and its potential for general improvements everywhere.

The thing is how much all those GCN GPUs (from the first one) will support DirectX 12. 

Maybe only partially?

Have you heard about the upcoming Arctic Islands? Any comments on them?


----------



## HumanSmoke (Mar 9, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> The thing is how much all those GCN GPUs (from the first one) will support DirectX 12. Maybe only partially?


All versions of GCN support DirectX 12 fully ( Tier 3)


Sony Xperia S said:


> Have you heard about the upcoming Arctic Islands? Any comments on them?


There is no concrete information regarding Arctic Islands at the moment.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 9, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> All versions



Ich spreche kein Deutsch. 

Seriously though, Arctic Islands are interesting on their own, there are many sites already reporting about them:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Prepares-Radeon-R9-400-Arctic-Islands-GPUs-471557.shtml

_In any case, the GPUs should be designed for either the 16 nm or 14nm FinFET fabrication process technology, which means much higher efficiency than 28nm.
Globalfoundries will likely handle the manufacturing, since AMD appears to have cut ties with TSMC after repeated failure to ramp new nm nodes on time.

Potential chip names include New Siberian XT, Wrangel XT, Herald XT, maybe even Victoria? There are many islands in the Arctic Ocean. Unless AMD meant that all islands near the arctic circles are up for grabs, in which case we're better off not even trying to guess.

_


----------



## 64K (Mar 9, 2015)

Prima.Vera said:


> So basically only the 390 and 390X wont be re-brands?? Or the 380(X) also?



The last thing I read on the 380x is that it will have the same specs as a 290x but with improved efficiency so that leaves room to boost the clocks a little to make it faster than the 290x. The 390/390x will be the most interesting new silicone from AMD but may be pretty expensive at launch. We'll see.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 9, 2015)

64K said:


> The 390/390x will be the most interesting new silicone from AMD...



Mhm, come 20nm babies, come.


----------



## GhostRyder (Mar 9, 2015)

64K said:


> The last thing I read on the 380x is that it will have the same specs as a 290x but with improved efficiency so that leaves room to boost the clocks a little to make it faster than the 290x. The 390/390x will be the most interesting new silicone from AMD but may be pretty expensive at launch. We'll see.


Yea, sounds like they are going to boost it up a bit higher to make it compete with the GTX 980 cards at an improved efficiency though its still going to use more power but will be a close competitor performance wise.  I think the question will be though if the boost clocks are all its still going to be capable of or will it overclock even further as that would be what makes it an even better change.



Sony Xperia S said:


> Ich spreche kein Deutsch.
> 
> Seriously though, Arctic Islands are interesting on their own, there are many sites already reporting about them:
> 
> ...


 Its all mostly rumor at this point, I mean we don't even have much information regarding the new Pirate Islands GPU's coming soon so the Arctic Islands are far from giving us any real information.  Would love some of course but that is not going to have much for at least another 6+ months I would guess.



Dj-ElectriC said:


> When AMD say that, they mean nothing.
> 280X was supose to be "mature". It ended up being far less efficient than HD 7970 becuase all they did is jack the core clock up while taking 0 effort in efficiency improvements.
> 
> Same for R9 285.
> ...


 Well that is only if you are comparing it to the 7970 reference instead of the 7970ghz edition, it shows a little bit of improvement over the Ghz edition though not much.  285 does consume less power but that is mostly a similar way of balancing load done with PowerTune similar to how Maxwell handles load more than anything.  Though the card was mostly designed to make a cheaper R9 280 is the end of the day which is what they were hoping with the change in ram, bus, and circuitry and they achieved that while offering similar performance.  As for the 290X, even if it is matured your probably right because they will likely bump the clocks up to overtake whatever efficiency gains they get immediately.

Meh, ill wait until more details arise before I make final judgments though I do like where this is going...


----------



## jabbadap (Mar 9, 2015)

eroldru said:


> This speaks for itself and it's taken from techreport
> http://techreport.com/r.x/radeon-r9-285/power-load.gif



Most likely confusing use of tdp,tbp etc. useless marketing power usage spec. Neither amd or nvidia uses real tdp(thermal design power) for marketing, amd uses TBP(typical board power) which is the power card sips average in typical use(i.e. gaming). See tpu:s review(r9-285 tbp 190W, gaming avarage 189W):
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/R9_285_Dual-X_OC/23.html

Nvidia uses some vague term called graphics card power, which usually means peak power while gaming (all boost 2.0 cards from titan to gtx960, except gtx980/gtx970, which uses average)...


----------



## Initialised (Mar 10, 2015)

SirEpicWin said:


> I hope we see the 980Ti by then.


Whers da popkorns?


----------



## xvi (Mar 10, 2015)

GhostRyder said:


> Still, I am an impatient man and waiting on anything whether it be a new GPU or CPU just drives me nuts especially when we have been waiting for so long already.


The longer we wait, the more time they have to make improvements. As long as it's a _good_ card, it might be worth it.


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 10, 2015)

1. HBM... Am I the only one that is indifferent there? 512b bus is seemingly wide enough to pump AA @ 4k. So what will more do if that isn't the bottleneck? It sure won't help 2560x1440 or even 5760x1080/1200. So to me, yippee on the bandwidth...
2. It comes with an AIO. Scary. Scary because I'm afraid it's a necessity and not more of a novelty. I own a 295x2 so I know what 500w of heat will do to radiator...or two. It better not be 300w tdp. Frankly, if it's over 250, I will be disappointed...but it wouldn't prevent me from buying it.


----------



## arbiter (Mar 10, 2015)

EarthDog said:


> 2. It comes with an AIO. Scary. Scary because I'm afraid it's a necessity and not more of a novelty. I own a 295x2 so I know what 500w of heat will do to radiator...or two. It better not be 300w tdp. Frankly, if it's over 250, I will be disappointed...but it wouldn't prevent me from buying it.



It will be 300+watts, even if it uses 20nm which i heard stories of 20nm might not been ready but could be. doing 50% jump in shaders, probably be north of that less AMD under clocks it.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 10, 2015)

EarthDog said:


> 1. HBM... *Am I the only one that is indifferent there? *512b bus is seemingly wide enough to pump AA @ 4k. So what will more do if that isn't the bottleneck? It sure won't help 2560x1440 or even 5760x1080/1200. So to me, yippee on the bandwidth...



Yes, I think so. I cannot wait to see what HBM brings to the table.


----------



## GLD (Mar 10, 2015)

My main rig in my specs tops out about 275 watts max when gaming. It plays all my games on high, some ultra, with out skipping a beat. Reviews shows my 7850 is a 100w or less card. I couldn't make the jump to a 300w card and fell good about it. A 150w card maybe, as I might step up to a 125w 8350 cpu, because they do kick arse for the money.

My 2nd rig, my daily driver pulls less then 65w all day long. Now that is what I am talking about. AMD FTW.

Anyway... I am sure the next gen of AMD cards will sell great.


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 10, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> Yes, I think so. I cannot wait to see what HBM brings to the table.


You have more than 1 4k monitor or 3 1440p ones to actually have a horse in the race? Awesome! Otherwise, it really doesn't matter for you friend...

What's the point of using a firehose when a gardenhose allows adequate flow. It won't flow faster just because it's a bigger pipe.


----------



## 64K (Mar 10, 2015)

EarthDog said:


> You have more than 1 4k monitor or 3 1440p ones to actually have a horse in the race? Awesome! Otherwise, it really doesn't matter for you friend...
> 
> What's the point of using a firehose when a gardenhose allows adequate flow. It won't flow faster just because it's a bigger pipe.



I'm not sure what has gotten into AMD and Nvidia with the massive jumps in bandwidth. Nvidia is saying that Pascal may have 1 TB/second bandwidth. Both manufacturers know that it is rare right now for anyone to be gaming on a 4K panel according to the Steam hardware review, much less multiple 4K panels. There must be some reason that they are both going in the direction of massive bandwidth but I don't know what it is.


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 10, 2015)

NVIDIA didn't buy into the hype. The 980 is a 256bit card. You can see the performance gap between the 290x and 980 shrink a bit at 4k (from 13% @ 2560x1440 to 10% at 4K) which shows the 256bit limit, but its clear that what the 512bit 290x has is plenty for the less than 1% of the market that games on 4K res or higher...and losing a mere 3%, while still notable, isn't too shabby with that 'limited' bandwidth.

Its AMD that is thinking massive bandwidth is the answer to a problem that doesn't really exist on the gaming side of things. Eventually, more will be needed, surely, but at this time, and for the next couple of years, its all marketing to me and it has some people drooling... hook, line, and sinker. I really think they are capitalizing on the ignorance of the general consumer and some enthusiasts that just do not know better.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 10, 2015)

Would you please be so kind to stop with the bullshit?

What exactly is your problem in having HBM instead of the old GDDR5? Just for the sake of argument or what?

If you don't like it, then just go with slower solutions and that's it.



EarthDog said:


> You have more than 1 4k monitor or 3 1440p ones to actually have a horse in the race? Awesome!



Yeah, I'm planning to buy that beauty from Acer http://us.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/series/s7

The thing is that I also need a new CPU with the new GPU, and a motherboard.

But let's see how it will work out......

Many things in my wish list right now.


----------



## jabbadap (Mar 10, 2015)

Well max memory amount what you get with hbm is now 4GB(you need higher density hbm memories which don't exist yet), and if you have x times UHD/1440p monitors, you would need more vram. Bandwidth is not all you need. So 2x r9-290x with 8GB per card might be more future proof with that kind of resolutions, than single r9-390x or even pair will ever be. For single UHD monitor, I believe 4GB will suffice.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 10, 2015)

jabbadap said:


> Well max memory amount what you get with hbm is now 4GB(you need higher density hbm memories which don't exist yet), and if you have x times UHD/1440p monitors, you would need more vram. Bandwidth is not all you need. So 2x r9-290x with 8GB per card might be more future proof with that kind of resolutions, than single r9-390x or even pair will ever be. For single UHD monitor, I believe 4GB will suffice.



Ok, I see but they can always release 8 GB versions once it's available.

R9 290X with 8GB........ Do you have any benchmarks which show any sense or the GPU's bottlenecks are elsewhere?


----------



## jabbadap (Mar 10, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> Ok, I see but they can always release 8 GB versions once it's available.
> 
> R9 290X with 8GB........ Do you have any benchmarks which show any sense or the GPU's bottlenecks are elsewhere?



Well I might have spoken too soon, but I did find couple of reviews:
http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/zardon/sapphire-r9-290x-vapor-x-8gb-cf-review/
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sapphire-vapor-x-r9-290x-8gb,3977.html

There are games which benefit higher vram(like ubisoft games and shadow of mordor), and then there is games where bottleneck is more side of gpu processing power.


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 10, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> Would you please be so kind to stop with the bullshit?
> 
> What exactly is your problem in having HBM instead of the old GDDR5? Just for the sake of argument or what?
> 
> If you don't like it, then just go with slower solutions and that's it.


No bullshit... What are you all up in arms about anyway?

I don't have a problem with HBM per say. What I take exception to are the people thinking that ram bandwidth is a concern with AMD and thinking its going to be a savior of some sort. The reality is anything over their current bandwidth is already plenty for a single 4K monitor and more isn't going to help much for that resolution on down. With well less than 1% of enthusiasts rocking 4K and even less rocking multiple 4k, its a curious move at this point in the game.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 10, 2015)

The *R9 390X* with its score of *8374* in 3D Mark Fire Strike Extreme:

http://vr-zone.com/articles/leaked-...es-put-it-ahead-of-nvidias-gtx-980/86452.html

is faster than 

the *Titan X* with its *7989* in the same test, 3D Mark Fire Strike Extreme:

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-...erformance-uplift-gtx-980-234way-sli-results/


----------



## Sihastru (Mar 10, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> The *R9 390X* with its score of *8374* in 3D Mark Fire Strike Extreme:
> 
> http://vr-zone.com/articles/leaked-...es-put-it-ahead-of-nvidias-gtx-980/86452.html



That article can't even get the name of the imaginary card right: R9 380X... So don't get your hopes up. A lower 3D Mark score on the Titan X (actual card that actually exists, not something that has less sightings then Bigfoot) doesn't mean lower FPS in games. 3D Mark favors GCN.


----------



## HumanSmoke (Mar 11, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> The *R9 390X* with its score of *8374* in 3D Mark Fire Strike Extreme


Wow, how slow are you? Denounced as fake ages ago.


Sihastru said:


> That article can't even get the name of the imaginary card right: R9 380X..


I pointed that out when Xzibit and Sonny trolled the other threads over two months ago - strange how in two months the guy that has four unreleased cards hasn't posted a single validated benchmark, nor anything else. Sonny ain't care about facts.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 11, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> Wow, how slow are you? Denounced as fake ages ago.
> 
> I pointed that out when Xzibit and Sonny trolled the other threads over two months ago - strange how in two months the guy that has four unreleased cards hasn't posted a single validated benchmark, nor anything else. Sonny ain't care about facts.



You are more fake than those leaks.


----------



## EarthDog (Mar 11, 2015)

LOL...


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 14, 2015)

*Fiji Radeon 390X comes with 8GB frame buffer*

*http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/37258-fiji-radeon-390x-comes-with-8gb*


----------



## HumanSmoke (Mar 14, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> *Fiji Radeon 390X comes with 8GB frame buffer*
> 
> *http://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/37258-fiji-radeon-390x-comes-with-8gb*


Thanks for the laugh. Fudo at it again!


> In order to put 8GB on the card you need eight 8Gbit chips (1GB per chip) with 1024GB/s bandwidth


Except that HBM1 is limited to four memory stacks, and it would make all the earlier leaked benchmarks a complete waste of time.


> The decision to go for an 8GB Fiji rather than the planned 4GB version was in part attributed by Nvidia’s Titan X 12GB card announcement.


So, up until very recently, the 390X was going to be 4GB, then the Titan X turns up which freaks out AMD and sends them scuttling back to rework the design?!?! It didn't occur to AMD that Titan X would have at least 6GB of vRAM when every Titan card has had at least this amount. Mmmmm...ok. Whatever.

BTW: Your favourite go-to benchmarkers are at it again (Chiphell).  1.98% framerate "win" for the 390X for 12.89% more power usage if you believe their benchmarking. If that is anywhere close to being real  then a vendor dual-8 pin design 980 Ti 6GB looks like the money shot. Plenty of headroom for power increase when you factor in the ~30W saved by going with 6GB rather than 12GB.

Fudo and Chiphell....what a double act.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 14, 2015)

If the Titan X is sending AMD to work harder on its specifications for possible counterpart in the face of R9 390X, then this is definitely a very good sign and I will be happy to see them fighting anyways.

A battle which the titanIC will lose and sink deep into the oblivion.


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## the54thvoid (Mar 15, 2015)

There is every possibility that the 390X will be faster than Titan. But if it releases with the probable 4Gb, Nvidia will have nothing to fear. The Titan name will be used to keep it around for amateur compute and memory intensive graphic work.
Its almost a bit suspicious that AMD have pushed the 390X to June, despite hinting a month or so back it was just getting a few tweaks.
If a Titan busting 390X released at the same time, Titan would lose sales. With a delay, Titan can slip out, get a couple of months sales then when the 390X comes out, it can get market share, then Nvidia releases 980ti a month or so after.  Almost giving both camps time for peak sales in the first month or so.
I don't normally believe in conspiracies but why, if 390X is faster than Titan, would AMD not release/announce it at the same time.  AMD are either not ready (so benches from Dec, same as GM200) are completely faked and card was nowhere near ready or they are in collision with Nv for maximum sale potential of each companies flagship release?
It's that or AMD's card simply isn't ready.  There's no way they'd let Nv get so much glory, unless, they also announce (but don't launch) in March and release in June.


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 15, 2015)

the54thvoid said:


> I don't normally believe in conspiracies but why, if 390X is faster than Titan, would AMD not release/announce it at the same time.  AMD are either not ready (so benches from Dec, same as GM200) are completely faked and card was nowhere near ready or they are in collision with Nv for maximum sale potential of each companies flagship release?


I would tend to favour the "not ready" option. Maybe because of a lack of commercial quantities of HBM, or yield issues (this will be AMD's largest ever piece of silicon) - maybe even yield variance. If the silicon lacks uniformity for voltage/clocks, then tuning for common frequency within the board limitations may be problematic. If AMD has the option to launch the cards ( I'd assume an air cooled 390-non X would also be involved), they would do so. The company are getting reamed in market share, being outsold 3-to-1 (likely to slip to 4-to-1 for this quarter) and enduring low ASPs thanks to competition and needing to shed inventory. Launching the 390X would rekindle some interest amongst consumers for the lower tier cards. AMD desperately needs to arrest the slide because they are getting to the point where clawing back market share even a strong lineup launch will be a tough ask - the company have had trouble regaining share in the past when Nvidia had nothing to answer with (Evergreen comes to mind). With Maxwell in the marketplace the task would be staggering. A quick market share chart with significant SKU releases overlaid that I put together for another site ( figures from Mercury Research and JPR where Mercury's weren't available):







the54thvoid said:


> There's no way they'd let Nv get so much glory, unless, they also announce (but don't launch) in March and release in June.


Quite probably that will be strategy. Orchestrated leaks that offer plausible deniability have been SOP for both AMD and Nvidia for years. The problem this time for AMD is a _damned if you do, damned if you don't_ situation. If AMD talk up their unreleased parts too much, people will balk at buying their current line-up if they think the new cards are imminent and AMD has to eat a sizeable write down of inventory. If the company don't provide some kind of spoiler, then consumers will assume that AMD's cards are too late and buy Nvidia. A reasonable course of action would be leak not only performance but a price that still makes the current lineup attractive.


the54thvoid said:


> There is every possibility that the 390X will be faster than Titan. But if it releases with the probable 4Gb, Nvidia will have nothing to fear.


Titan X won't make or break the company for the generation. GM 204 has already laid a solid platform both in desktop and mobile. There's a strong possibility that the 390X is faster overall than Titan X, but if history has taught us anything, its that these two companies know each other pretty well and in the eight years since G80 arrived, the flagship products of both companies have been very close in actual performance. I'd think that pattern wouldn't change very much with the amount of scrutiny both sides reserve for each other.

My $0.02


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## jabbadap (Mar 16, 2015)

http://videocardz.com/55146/amd-radeon-r9-390x-possible-specifications-and-performance-leaked

Ah, from slides "New HBM dual-link interposing enables larger capacities". So it's possible to use 8x gen 1 HBMs to get that 8GB vram.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 16, 2015)

AMD Radeon R9 390X Alleged Specifications and Performance Numbers Leaked – 60% Faster Than R9 290X

Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-3...mbers-leaked-60-faster-r9-290x/#ixzz3UZA2CNVk


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## 64K (Mar 16, 2015)

Yeah, the rumors persist that the R9 390x will indeed have 8 GB HBM. This could be the reason for the delay to June until it's ready. Also it seems that the 390x will be a little faster than the Titan X and probably for less $$$. If Nvidia rolls out a gaming version of the GM200 then it could be a little faster than the 390x. Speculation at this point.


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## the54thvoid (Mar 16, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> AMD Radeon R9 390X Alleged Specifications and Performance Numbers Leaked – 60% Faster Than R9 290X
> 
> Read more: http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-3...mbers-leaked-60-faster-r9-290x/#ixzz3UZA2CNVk



If it's 250 Watt I don't know why they have the WCE version unless it's a standalone (like EVGA Hydrocopper but AMD's version).  250watts can be dealt with on a custom fan design.

It's looking good for gfx fans these next few months.  Certainly going to hold off until the 390X is out to make my choices.  Though if the TPU source of up to $1000 for the 8GB version is true, it looks like some AMD peeps will be a bit upset.  Let's hope they don't copy the Titan model for pricing.....


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## EarthDog (Mar 16, 2015)

Yeah, no clue why they would strap on the added cost of an AIO for 250W... That makes no sense... unless its a $1K card.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 16, 2015)

the54thvoid said:


> If it's 250 Watt I don't know why they have the WCE version unless it's a standalone (like EVGA Hydrocopper but AMD's version).  250watts can be dealt with on a custom fan design.
> 
> It's looking good for gfx fans these next few months.  Certainly going to hold off until the 390X is out to make my choices.  Though if the TPU source of up to $1000 for the 8GB version is true, it looks like some AMD peeps will be a bit upset.  Let's hope they don't copy the Titan model for pricing.....



It doesn't make sense to put the 400$ price tag for R9 380X if its performance is already on par with the available-for-340$ R9 290X. Even if it's slightly improved version of Hawaii.

I also do not believe R9 390X will get 1000$ price tag, despite it being with presumably not cheap 8 GB of HBM.
Maybe the 4 GB variants still for around 550$?


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## the54thvoid (Mar 16, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> It doesn't make sense to put the 400$ price tag for R9 380X if its performance is already on par with the available-for-340$ R9 290X. Even if it's slightly improved version of Hawaii.
> 
> I also do not believe R9 390X will get 1000$ price tag, despite it being with presumably not cheap 8 GB of HBM.
> Maybe the 4 GB variants still for around 550$?



Your own link from wccftech says $699+



> The website says that the Radeon R9 390X and Radeon R9 390 will be retailing at prices north of $700 USD


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