# Memory Timing question



## 2THPIC (Nov 9, 2006)

im from the ol' school era. the last time i was into upgrading and changing out parts was when 386's where fast. i got this e-mech. w3050 that has 512 memory. i want to upgrade to 2g. the question is, what's the skinny on memory timing? 2.5-3-3-7, 3-3-3-8, 2-?-?-? wtf i don't under stand the numbers and what is better than the other. i don't want to buy 2g of memory and found out that it sucks.


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## Sasqui (Nov 9, 2006)

Ok, prepare yourself to be confused.

DDR, or DDR2?

The first number is the "CAS latency" - Remember "Zero Wait State"?  Well, that doesn't exist anymore becuse processors have become so fast, beyond the current possible bandwidth of memory.

Effectively, the CAS equates the number of "wait states" (or clock cycles) before the memory can send data back to the CPU... or store it.

The other numbers make a difference, but much less important than CAS, the first number.

That's just part of the whole story!  Rated speeds (DDR-400, DDR*2*-667, etc.) are even more important.

Someone jump in and tell me I'm FOS (if I am)


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## 2THPIC (Nov 9, 2006)

ddr


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## Sasqui (Nov 9, 2006)

OK, quite simply for DDR memory rated at the same speed, the lower the numbers the better.  And then there is Dual-Channel.  Two sticks of identical memory in "Interleved banks" that work somwhat like a RAID array.  Almost all motherboards today support this.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 9, 2006)

so if i have 512 now and i slap in a 1g it wont work as good?


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## Sasqui (Nov 9, 2006)

2THPIC said:


> so if i have 512 now and i slap in a 1g it wont work as good?



If you have a single stick of 512 and put in another 1g stick (assuming your motherboard supports it), you shouldn't see a decrease, unless the 1g stick has higher latency... the timiings will usually match the slowest memory installed in the system.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 9, 2006)

ok, heres the big question. where is the best place to buy memory.
i would like to spend around 200.00 for for 2g of memory.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 9, 2006)

Well most use "Newegg", check out my memory in my specs, overclock well and at 480Mhz on just 2.7V those are some pretty good timings but there is plent of good stuff out there, check Newegg, see what falls in your pricerange and then list the links here so we can check them out.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 9, 2006)

here's some that i'm looking at in my price range.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141307
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134008
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134135
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134040

i just don't know if it will work with my eMachines pc


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## Namslas90 (Nov 9, 2006)

Got a similar E- Machine,  Be carefull can't adjust Memory voltage w/stock bios, so stick with something that will give you good numbers with stock 2.6 Vmem.  Also had trouble with 3 different 1gb(2x512) sticks of kingston.  Kingston is great memory!! However I don't think that mobo will give you good o-clock results with the better(HyperX) stuff.  Turns out that the 3 sets of kingston I bought were all from a bad lot @Best Buy.  Ended up buying Value Ram(flexable from pc2100 to pc 32000) and all worked out O K, but not great.  I would recommending spending the least on ram(1gb is enough) and getting a good Graphics/Video card.  This wil realy improve performance.  My E-Machine has an ATI 9600 FX and runs realy good for its class (about 5 steps higher than stock). all though E-Machines are prety good,  the E stands for Economy, therefore they don't have the best foundation for performance, and watch your power supply, they have a tendency to burn out and take the Mobo with it.  Add a couple fans(one on the Northbridge) if you are adding a good graphics card, and/or playing high demand games or Video/pics/etc.  See Optimization guide on TPU for other hints for streamlining for better performance.  Check the sales @tiger direct(also closeouts) they have good sales.  Also recommend: For more detailed memmory information see the "Godfather of Memmory" TPU's own KETXX  or for  Optimizing  check w TPU's ALECSTAR.  There is a lot of Knowledge and experience here @ TPU, "IT'S A GREAT PLACE".


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## 2THPIC (Nov 9, 2006)

so you went with (2) 1GB OCZ Gold XTC 400 DDR for your e-mech.?
did your pc now get up and go after installing the new memory? is that what you ment when you said (all worked out O K, but not great)?

btw, if any of yall out there have a great set of 1g's for sale that will work in my pc let me know.


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## Namslas90 (Nov 9, 2006)

No, the E-Machine won't run the OCZ Gold at 2.8Vmem.  That memory is installed in My Gateway as shown on SYSTEM SPECS.  My E-machine is not listed on TPU.  The Gateway(listed) however does great. Highest 3DMark so far is 5824.  The E- machine  Runs great but is not overclocked much.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 9, 2006)

O, sorry still new. lol
you dont know unless you ask. then some times it makes you look stupit, i my case.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 9, 2006)

The Kingston HyperX default stock voltage is 2.6V!!!


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## 2THPIC (Nov 9, 2006)

Tatty_One said:


> The Kingston HyperX default stock voltage is 2.6V!!!



Is that the kind that i need? (The Kingston HyperX)


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## DaMulta (Nov 9, 2006)

Its a E-Machine, I would'nt go out and get the killer stuff for a E-Machine.

On timing the lower the number the better. I could take the time to type up some of it later.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 9, 2006)

well, it's quiting time here time to go home. i'll see yall tomarrow. it's hard work staying one the net.


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## Namslas90 (Nov 9, 2006)

Yes Exactly; the Hyper X is not worth the money for an E-Machine. And yes the Hyper X Vmem is 2.6Volts matching the E-machjine Bios.  However that memory is better than the Motherboard/Bios can handle.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 9, 2006)

2THPIC said:


> Is that the kind that i need? (The Kingston HyperX)



Well that depends, do you want high performance memory...ie do you intend to overclock your CPU, if you do you want high speed with decent timings, if you dont want to overclock then you are looking for DDR400 memory with good tight timings, usually (but not always....depending on price) high speed RAM, say DDR500 for example tend to come in at higher stock timings, for example 3-3-3-8 where as some ram that may not reach such high speeds are capable of say 2-2-2-5, now there is both better high speed and stock tighter timing memory than Kingston HyperX (although IMO kingston is one of the best qualit memory sticks you can get) but the Kingstons strength is that it is a pretty damn good balance between the 2, for example mine is DDR400 running at DDR480 at 2.5-3-2-6 @ 1T now thats not bad at all and there are a lot out there more exspensive and it does all of that at fairly low voltage, if I was running it at stock 400Mhz (no CPU overclock) it will run at 2-2-3-6 @ 1T


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## Jeepn (Nov 10, 2006)

I have the same memory, what would be good settings for mine? Kingston Hyper X PC3200 1GB 184 pin. I also have 512 Kingston Value installed with the 1GB Hyper in Dual Channel, should I take the value out?


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## Tatty_One (Nov 10, 2006)

Jeepn said:


> I have the same memory, what would be good settings for mine? Kingston Hyper X PC3200 1GB 184 pin. I also have 512 Kingston Value installed with the 1GB Hyper in Dual Channel, should I take the value out?



Assuming your motherboard is dual channel capable it makes no difference so better to keep both sticks in as you are only running in single channel mode so you are not using the full potential of your system/speed/memory, to run in dual channel mode you need to matching sticks of equal density, sometimes different makes of same size sticks will work in dual channel mode together but that is largely dependant on how picky your memory controller/motherboard is and is a risk.

My personal advice would be to sell your existing memory on Flea Bay and by a Gig of match paired (2 x 512MB) dual channel memory, if you can afford it go for 2 Gig (2 x 1GB).  Or perhaps just flea bay the 512MB stick and buy another 1GB stick of the same Hyper X memory and hope that they will run dual, that would be the cheapest option to get the fastest end product but with a little risk.


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## Jeepn (Nov 10, 2006)

I am running the 1GB in dual (2x512 Hyper X), then the half GB in dual too (2x256 Kingston Value).


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## Tatty_One (Nov 10, 2006)

Jeepn said:


> I am running the 1GB in dual (2x512 Hyper X), then the half GB in dual too (2x256 Kingston Value).



No your not! by mixing 2 sticks of 512 and 2 sticks of 256 all are running in single channel mode, as I said, to obtain dual channel ALL memory sticks in the slots must be of the same size.

So take out the 2 x 256 and your system will run in dual mode with the 2 x 512MB's.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 13, 2006)

Tatty_One said:


> Well that depends, do you want high performance memory...ie do you intend to overclock your CPU, if you do you want high speed with decent timings, if you dont want to overclock then you are looking for DDR400 memory with good tight timings, usually (but not always....depending on price) high speed RAM, say DDR500 for example tend to come in at higher stock timings, for example 3-3-3-8 where as some ram that may not reach such high speeds are capable of say 2-2-2-5, now there is both better high speed and stock tighter timing memory than Kingston HyperX (although IMO kingston is one of the best qualit memory sticks you can get) but the Kingstons strength is that it is a pretty damn good balance between the 2, for example mine is DDR400 running at DDR480 at 2.5-3-2-6 @ 1T now thats not bad at all and there are a lot out there more exspensive and it does all of that at fairly low voltage, if I was running it at stock 400Mhz (no CPU overclock) it will run at 2-2-3-6 @ 1T



i dont plan on going in twiking the numbers. i just want to plug-n-play. take out the old, stab in the new. like i've said before, i dont know what to buy that would work in my pc. if some one could tell me a brand and size to buy that would work i would be greatful. before the end of the year i need to buy memory and a graphic card just because of tax reasions.
you know upgarade the pc for the bussness. (wink wink)


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## Tatty_One (Nov 13, 2006)

OK, buy a matching 512mb of the same memory you already have, some of the old socket A mobo's dont run in dual channel but the aditional memory will give your system a boost.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 13, 2006)

Tatty_One said:


> OK, buy a matching 512mb of the same memory you already have, some of the old socket A mobo's dont run in dual channel but the aditional memory will give your system a boost.



I WOULD LIKE TO GO UP TO 2G IF POSS.


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## cdawall (Nov 13, 2006)

why cant you just get kingston value ram? its an old system couldnt he just get cheap 3.0-3-3-8 and be ok performance wise?


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## Tatty_One (Nov 13, 2006)

Ok, e bay your existing ram, then because you are not going to overclock get a PC3200 DDR400 matched pair of 1 Gig sticks but look for anything with tight timings, so at the very least 2.5-3-3-7 as a minimum, the tighter the timings are, the more exspensive it will be.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 13, 2006)

These are the cheapest on newegg at the moment:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231039


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## Alcpone (Nov 13, 2006)

I would sell it and start from scratch personally, its just not worth spending the ready's on it imo

Its like having a 15 yr old car and slapping a ecu into it, just isnt quite worth it some how!


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## 2THPIC (Nov 14, 2006)

Alcpone said:


> I would sell it and start from scratch personally, its just not worth spending the ready's on it imo
> 
> Its like having a 15 yr old car and slapping a ecu into it, just isnt quite worth it some how!



i would loveto start from scratch, but the $$ is slim and the bills are high. i'll prob. get a new pc or lab top next year, till than i'll do what i can on a budget.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 14, 2006)

Tatty_One said:


> Ok, e bay your existing ram, then because you are not going to overclock get a PC3200 DDR400 matched pair of 1 Gig sticks but look for anything with tight timings, so at the very least 2.5-3-3-7 as a minimum, the tighter the timings are, the more exspensive it will be.



THNAKS a lot that's going to help me a lot. 
do you want to buy a stick of 512 ddr for $200.00?  lol just kidding
i'll prob. e-bay the thing and get what i can out of it. 
now i'm on the search fo a video card. o'boy. so if yall have any good ideas, that would be greatful as well. all tho thats prob a diff. thread.

 yall have been the biggest help to me. i realy thank all of yall very much.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 22, 2006)

i need to know witch one of these will work with a eMachines K7MNF-64 AGP mobo.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820231039
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820609058
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820211014
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820145579
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820231047
any help would be greatful consitering i'm fixen to spend some cash.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 22, 2006)

ok, i found this site to help me on my quest
http://www.crucial.com/store/listmfgr.asp?cat=RAM
with this new found info i was able to pin point the right memory for my mombo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141214
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820221009
what would be a better deal, buy 2 singels or the dual channel?


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## Tatty_One (Nov 22, 2006)

Is your system dual channel enabled? because you have the old socket A your processor will not have it "on die" so you need to check your motherboard manual to see if it is dual channel enabled...if it is get the dual channel kit to be safe, some of those old sockets A's that are dual channel can be fineky, if not dual channel then go for cheapest option.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 27, 2006)

Tatty_One said:


> Is your system dual channel enabled? because you have the old socket A your processor will not have it "on die" so you need to check your motherboard manual to see if it is dual channel enabled...if it is get the dual channel kit to be safe, some of those old sockets A's that are dual channel can be fineky, if not dual channel then go for cheapest option.



thanks i'll look it up. i had no idea about the dual channel support thing.
thanks a lot lot for letting me use your brain.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 27, 2006)

If you give me your motherboard manufacturer and model number I will check for you.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 27, 2006)

Tatty_One said:


> If you give me your motherboard manufacturer and model number I will check for you.



Manufacturer:eMachines 
Part No: 102732 
SKU: MBEM102732K7

eMachines K7MNF Motherboard q-links
http://66.161.7.82/emachines/specials/eMachines_K7MNF_4_motherboard_102732
http://www.emachine-upgraders.info/dir1/motherboards/socketa/k7mnf-64.shtml


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## Tatty_One (Nov 27, 2006)

OK, thanks, just found a handbook for the board, it does not support dual channel ram so go for the cheapest option, you do not need a matched pair kit, I cannot remember what you said was already in the slots, I think you only have 2 slots?


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## 2THPIC (Nov 27, 2006)

Tatty_One said:


> OK, thanks, just found a handbook for the board, it does not support dual channel ram so go for the cheapest option, you do not need a matched pair kit, I cannot remember what you said was already in the slots, I think you only have 2 slots?



ya just 2 slots. where did you find the handbook at?
dude, you've help me a lot thanks. before hand i was  trying to fig this out.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 27, 2006)

have you ever linked up 2 pc's to one screen, mouse and keyboard. i'm looking at gitting a gaming pc, but i dont want to have 2 keyboards 2 mouses and 2 screens.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 27, 2006)

I found it here........

http://www.emachine-upgraders.info/dir1/motherboards/socketa/k7mnf-64_downloads.shtml

If you scroll down the page you will see the user manual in PDF.

I would go for 2 x 512MB (presuming you want just 1GB) DDR400 (PC3200) memory sticks from the same manufacturer but as I said, they dont have to be a "matched pair/kit" with at least timings of 2.5-3-3-7.....just go for the cheapest you can find, if you find any with lower numbers than this but as cheap go for the lower.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Nov 27, 2006)

2thpic i think you need a KVM switcher.you can use 1 kb/mouse on two machines.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 27, 2006)

tigger69 said:


> 2thpic i think you need a KVM switcher.you can use 1 kb/mouse on two machines.



cool looks eazy for a discription i found. thanks


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## francis511 (Nov 27, 2006)

2thpic.i use a kvm to switch between 2 pcs,and it makes life a lot easier.


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## 2THPIC (Nov 27, 2006)

i'm looking at newegg and there is about 70 2 chose from.
i keep reading that some drop the mouse and or the keyboard.
witch one do yall use?


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## francis511 (Nov 27, 2006)

bought mine locally.no brand on it.i use one pc for games,the other for
internet access, so im always switching between them


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## 2THPIC (Nov 27, 2006)

francis511 said:


> bought mine locally.no brand on it.i use one pc for games,the other for
> internet access, so im always switching between them



that's kinda what i want to do. one for my bussness and the other for gaming.
yet i dont have the gamming one yet. thats on my todo list. i'm curently looking for a good gammer or parts to build a gammer.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 27, 2006)

2THPIC said:


> that's kinda what i want to do. one for my bussness and the other for gaming.
> yet i dont have the gamming one yet. thats on my todo list. i'm curently looking for a good gammer or parts to build a gammer.



I do the same but on one PC, just with 2 hard drives with dual boot operating systems, I can boot to whichever I want then once within windows switch between the 2, there must be advantages of having the 2 seperate systems but is it worth the extra cost?


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## francis511 (Nov 27, 2006)

teh advantage is taht u can do both at once (without slowdown)


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## Tatty_One (Nov 27, 2006)

francis511 said:


> teh advantage is taht u can do both at once (without slowdown)



Both? what exactly....you mean surf and play for example?


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## 2THPIC (Nov 27, 2006)

Tatty_One said:


> I do the same but on one PC, just with 2 hard drives with dual boot operating systems, I can boot to whichever I want then once within windows switch between the 2, there must be advantages of having the 2 seperate systems but is it worth the extra cost?



that might no be a bad idea. my prob. is that i have 2 to 3 different cad programs on my pc and it boges down my system. so when i want to play it runs slow. about 2 mo. ago i reformated my system just to find out what was bogging it down. i was running fast untill i loaded fireworks, acad 2000 and acad 2006. acad 2006 takes up 2 gigs alone and sucks the memory. i allready have a 4g slave drive for all my junk files. can i install a 3rd h.d. on a stock eMachines K7MNF-64 AGP mobo, or do i need to upgrade the mobo? if i can install a 3rd h.d., how? do i need a different h.d. cable with a 3rd h.d. connection. also how do i make the pc boot the the different h.d.? inquirer wants to know


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## Tatty_One (Nov 27, 2006)

2THPIC said:


> that might no be a bad idea. my prob. is that i have 2 to 3 different cad programs on my pc and it boges down my system. so when i want to play it runs slow. about 2 mo. ago i reformated my system just to find out what was bogging it down. i was running fast untill i loaded fireworks, acad 2000 and acad 2006. acad 2006 takes up 2 gigs alone and sucks the memory. i allready have a 4g slave drive for all my junk files. can i install a 3rd h.d. on a stock eMachines K7MNF-64 AGP mobo, or do i need to upgrade the mobo? if i can install a 3rd h.d., how? do i need a different h.d. cable with a 3rd h.d. connection. also how do i make the pc boot the the different h.d.? inquirer wants to know



Looking at the manual as I did earlier I dont think you can install a 3rd drive but surely a second system isnt the answer, either upgrade the mobo bearing in mind its micro ATX so will probably be harder to find the right one for Socket A with the extra support or if you want the cheapest alternative get a socket 939 and a dual core athlon 64.....problem solved, no slowdown issues with a dual core (well a lot less) you could get a cheap socket 939 mobo and 3800 x2 for not a lot thesae days.


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## 2THPIC (Dec 18, 2006)

Tatty_One said:


> I found it here........
> 
> http://www.emachine-upgraders.info/dir1/motherboards/socketa/k7mnf-64_downloads.shtml
> 
> ...



you have helped me out sooooo much this past weekend. i took avery thing out of my emech. case and put it into a bio-hazard case. i could not have done it with out the manual link you sent me. thanks a lot. marry x-mas now i'm en


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## Ketxxx (Dec 19, 2006)

see my memory bible  left u more confused? ask away


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## Tatty_One (Dec 19, 2006)

2THPIC said:


> you have helped me out sooooo much this past weekend. i took avery thing out of my emech. case and put it into a bio-hazard case. i could not have done it with out the manual link you sent me. thanks a lot. marry x-mas now i'm en




No problems, hope all is running smooth for U.


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