# AMD Ryzen 3900X & 3700X Tested on X470



## W1zzard (Jul 7, 2019)

AMD delivers on its promise of backwards platform compatibility with 3rd generation Ryzen Zen 2. We examine the performance and headroom on a high-end motherboard based on the older AMD X470 chipset in a bid to find out if you can save on platform costs by sacrificing PCIe gen 4 support.

*Show full review*


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## Mussels (Jul 7, 2019)

First.

Sorry, had to. Thoughts coming later 

i'm trying to read the reviews, and check local prices - every website is suddenly on dial up and crashing. ryzen may be popular.


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## stanleyipkiss (Jul 7, 2019)

This is the kind of timely reporting that makes me come back to TPU.


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## Fluffmeister (Jul 7, 2019)

stanleyipkiss said:


> This is the kind of timely reporting that makes me come back to TPU.



Yeah massive credit to @W1zzard for all there recent reviews, tons of hard work no doubt.

Time for a lay down.


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## birdie (Jul 7, 2019)

@W1zzard

Please publish power consumption figures. I heard the X570 chipset requires active cooling which is a huge no-no in my books.


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## Metroid (Jul 7, 2019)

Thanks for the review, clear as always, no point going for the x570 if you dont need pcie4.0 and related to memory tests, 3200 - 3600 is marginally 1% difference too. So a x470 or b450 motherboard running at 3200 or some 3466mhz will be as good  as x570 + 3600mhz ddr4 performance wise.


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## RH92 (Jul 7, 2019)

Cool it becomes clear that X570 is only usefull if you need pcie 4.0 SSDs for some reason , would be nice to have a memory test between 400series and 500series mobos aswell but i highly doubt there will be any significant difference there aswell !


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## Pumper (Jul 7, 2019)

Great news, looks like we don't really need B550 and get to have the same performance at lower prices and no fans on mobos. Would be nice to see a lower end X470 and a B450 as well, though, as that M7 is more expensive than some of the X570 boards.


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## Durvelle27 (Jul 7, 2019)

What about a B350 review since they have support and a lot of users are still on them


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## W1zzard (Jul 7, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> What about a B350 review since they have support and a lot of users are still on them


Working on that right now


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## Pumper (Jul 7, 2019)

Durvelle27 said:


> What about a B350 review since they have support and a lot of users are still on them



AMD never promised official support for first gen Zen mobos:


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## Durvelle27 (Jul 7, 2019)

Pumper said:


> AMD never promised official support for first gen Zen mobos:


It clearly states select BIOs meaning they are offering support via the option of Vendors

My board has a BIOs update which added support for the Ryzen 3000 plus many more



W1zzard said:


> Working on that right now


Thank you


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## EarthDog (Jul 7, 2019)

stanleyipkiss said:


> This is the kind of timely reporting that makes me come back to TPU.


lol, all websites did this...posted their reviews when they can.

That said, it's a ton of effort from all reviewers, including the W1z.


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## Deleted member 158293 (Jul 7, 2019)

Awesome article, x470 Tai Chi & x3950 it will be!


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## TheLostSwede (Jul 7, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> lol, all websites did this...posted their reviews when they can.
> 
> That said, it's a ton of effort from all reviewers, including the W1z.



But most sites did not post as comprehensive content as TPU did, unless you have seen otherwise?


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## EarthDog (Jul 7, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> But most sites did not post as comprehensive content as TPU did, unless you care to show otherwise?


was simply referring to posting them at launch ("posting reviews when they can") . A few websites went into this kind of detail. 

The person I quoted said "timely" and didnt mention details... I also lost the thread title in my comment.


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## theonek (Jul 7, 2019)

everyone with a top class older chipset Ryzen mobo won't update to X570 at all, the real Q is does it worth so much new Ryzens, as their gaming performance is similar to the already older gen Ryzens....


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## thebluebumblebee (Jul 7, 2019)

> a majority of X470 motherboards support USB BIOS Flashback, a feature with which you can update the motherboard BIOS even without a *motherboard* installed


Think you meant CPU installed.


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## Athlonite (Jul 7, 2019)

Mussels said:


> First.
> 
> Sorry, had to. Thoughts coming later
> 
> i'm trying to read the reviews, and check local prices - every website is suddenly on dial up and crashing. ryzen may be popular.




So what are prices like neighbor ours are fricken ridiculous @ $999 for the R9 3900 series CPU's and twice the R7 2700/x prices for the 3700 series here in Gougeland (New Zealand)


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## Metroid (Jul 7, 2019)

Athlonite said:


> So what are prices like neighbor ours are fricken ridiculous @ $999 for the R9 3900 series CPU's and twice the R7 2700/x prices for the 3700 series here in Gougeland (New Zealand)



Scammers will try to scam people when these things are hot. It has always been the case in some places, good thing in the usa they dont do that, newegg, microcenter and most online retailers are charging $329 for the 3700x and $499 for the 3900x.


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## jeremyshaw (Jul 7, 2019)

I think the "selective BIOS" deal with the 350/370 boards is some vendors cheaped out on the BIOS chip capacity, so to make the Zen 2 support code fit, they have to drop something. Usually, it's dropping Bulldozer support (since those were mostly OEM-only anyways, with the exception of the Athlon x4 AM4).


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## srsbsns (Jul 7, 2019)

Maybe try the OC again after using 1.0.0.3AB. TPUs results dont match up with other reviews.


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## Metroid (Jul 7, 2019)

Any am4 motherboard supports at least 65 watts. So a 3600 or 3700 will work without any problems.


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## Tom_ (Jul 7, 2019)

birdie said:


> @W1zzard
> 
> Please publish power consumption figures. I heard the X570 chipset requires active cooling which is a huge no-no in my books.



Buy a C64. That one does not even have active Cooling on the CPU.


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## mstenholm (Jul 7, 2019)

Is "so we maxed out our Precision Boost Overdrive (PBO) headroom " installing a 240 mm AIO?


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## EarthDog (Jul 7, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> Is "so we maxed out our Precision Boost Overdrive (PBO) headroom " installing a 240 mm AIO?


Do most users run a custom 3x120mm+ loop or do most run air and 2x120 aios? Cant please em all... but maybe a 3x120mm, lol.


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## mstenholm (Jul 7, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Do most users run a custom 3x120mm+ loop or do most run air and aios? Cant please em all... but maybe a 3x120mm, lol.


No most people that own a x470/2X00X combo uses stock cooler or a decent 120 mm air ditto. Since I'm a AMD noob when it comes to OC and uses Linux I would like to know what that meant. Do I have to fiddle in BIOS or be forced to run Window (-programs)  to "max out headroom". Btw I will be using a 480 mm rad


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## Betty (Kung Pow) (Jul 7, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Working on that right now


Never wanted too see a review-stream so much before!


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## Wavetrex (Jul 7, 2019)

There might be another reason for using X570 despite the prices.

I'm not seeing ANY SINGLE board from the last gens (400, 300) that has the new Realtek 2.5G Ethernet chip on board
(Some do have Aquantia 10gbps, however motherboards with that chip have less USB 3.x, there are simply not enough PCI-e bandwidth/lanes for all. And that Aquantia chip doesn't do 2.5, meaning new Cat7 cables are needed... that's complicated)

On the other hand, looking at this for example:








						X570 AORUS MASTER (rev. 1.0) Key Features | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global
					

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




					www.gigabyte.com
				




It has ALL THE USBs, and a 2.5G chip as well, WIFI 6 too.



_".... But Wave, who needs 2.5Gbps Ethernet ?"_

Well, I do.
I have a storage/media server that holds all my 4K footage, and DAMN those files are massive !
Copying them through the network at 100MB/s sometimes drives me nuts.
A 2.5G chip would cut the time in half ( there's enough speed on the HDD RAID array, so that's not the bottleneck, the ancient 1G NETWORK is)

I could of course use 2.5G USB dongles, yes, but if building a new Ryzen 3000 PC, why not have it built in ?


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## bug (Jul 7, 2019)

theonek said:


> everyone with a top class older chipset Ryzen mobo won't update to X570 at all, the real Q is does it worth so much new Ryzens, as their gaming performance is similar to the already older gen Ryzens....


I think the smart move here would be to wait for B550 (or whatever) if you do not require the bleeding edge.


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## Mac2580 (Jul 7, 2019)

It is very kind of AMD to offer backward compatibility. I will definitely consider a 12 core /24 thread 3900X and some VRM fans a couple years down the line.


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## Mussels (Jul 8, 2019)

Athlonite said:


> So what are prices like neighbor ours are fricken ridiculous @ $999 for the R9 3900 series CPU's and twice the R7 2700/x prices for the 3700 series here in Gougeland (New Zealand)



not quite so bad, but a new board and CPU would hit me for $1k

worth it for a new build, NOT worth it for an upgrade (Woo, 120FPS to 130FPS! i'ma feel thaaaaat!)
If i had a buyer lined up for my old stuff, i'd be tempted... but i do not.


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## Athlonite (Jul 8, 2019)

Metroid said:


> Scammers will try to scam people when these things are hot. It has always been the case in some places, good thing in the usa they dont do that, newegg, microcenter and most online retailers are charging $329 for the 3700x and $499 for the 3900x.




These aren't scammers but legit PC Hardware shops here in New Zealand and if I were to buy from the states @ $329USD + PnP I'd still have to add 15% GST and whatever Duty Customs would chuck on top of it aswell so it maybe a little cheaper to do so but not a whole heck of alot


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## Metroid (Jul 8, 2019)

Athlonite said:


> These aren't scammers but legit PC Hardware shops here in New Zealand and if I were to buy from the states @ $329USD + PnP I'd still have to add 15% GST and whatever Duty Customs would chuck on top of it aswell so it maybe a little cheaper to do so but not a whole heck of alot



My point was "legit PC Hardware shops here in New Zealand" is taking advantage of the situation.


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## HisDivineOrder (Jul 8, 2019)

Do you still have to use Ryzen-friendly memory with the 3000 series on an older chipset?  Or is the improved memory compatibility irrespective of which chipset's used?


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## farmouss (Jul 8, 2019)

Your OC results are not comparable to those I found from others reviewers, they all reached around 4.2 / 4.3Ghz on all cores manually, though, most of them achieved best results with PBO Max + Auto OC enabled and it looks like it's the best choice for those CPUs when using them on a variety of workloads (single and multi core workloads)
Maybe it's the Taichi motherboard or your chip sample

Since PBO seems to be very dependent on the MB quality (VRMs power and quality actually) I'd be very interested to see X570 MB reviews and comparison, just to check if it's really worth spending the extra € for overclocking capabilities

cheers


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## Mussels (Jul 8, 2019)

HisDivineOrder said:


> Do you still have to use Ryzen-friendly memory with the 3000 series on an older chipset?  Or is the improved memory compatibility irrespective of which chipset's used?



RAM has been really friendly even on 2nd gen, the mature bioses solved it for most boards


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## EarthDog (Jul 8, 2019)

I'd call it better, but you really should stick to the QVL for Zen+. It is still more finicky than other platforms, but not as bad as Zen.


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## Athlonite (Jul 8, 2019)

HisDivineOrder said:


> Do you still have to use Ryzen-friendly memory with the 3000 series on an older chipset?  Or is the improved memory compatibility irrespective of which chipset's used?


 
If you stick with brands like GSkill or Corsair or even Team or Apacer you should be fine


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## Octopuss (Jul 8, 2019)

What's the highest memory frequency x470 chipset supports?


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## EarthDog (Jul 8, 2019)

Octopuss said:


> What's the highest memory frequency x470 chipset supports?


Will run, or supports as those are different things that depend on the IMC and sticks used? It depends on the board, but I've seen 4400+ listed on some....it may be higher now.


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## Octopuss (Jul 8, 2019)

I've just checked the new boards in our eshops and I'm SHOCKED. There are several that cost $600-700 equivalent. That's so ridiculous I can't find any words for it. There are no fucking features that would justify double the price of a brand new high performance CPU.


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## Mussels (Jul 9, 2019)

Octopuss said:


> I've just checked the new boards in our eshops and I'm SHOCKED. There are several that cost $600-700 equivalent. That's so ridiculous I can't find any words for it. There are no fucking features that would justify double the price of a brand new high performance CPU.



entry level x570 starts at $250Au here, either you're getting taxed hard at launch, or you're looking at the top end boards


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## bug (Jul 9, 2019)

Mussels said:


> entry level x570 starts at $250Au here, either you're getting taxed hard at launch, or you're looking at the top end boards


Sales taxes in EU range from 10 to 20% (or more). Add the import tax. And the early adopter's tax. And you'll get the picture.


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## Octopuss (Jul 9, 2019)

Mussels said:


> or you're looking at the top end boards


For sure. But the prices are WRONG even for that!


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## PaddieMayne (Jul 11, 2019)

"Most socket AM4 motherboards based on the mid-tier B350/B450 and premium X370/X470 chipsets offer USB BIOS Flashback"

SURELY! You mean most mother boards based on the mid-tier B350/B450 and premium X370/X470 chipsets do NOT offer USB BIOS FLASHBACK!!


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## EarthDog (Jul 11, 2019)

Mussels said:


> entry level x570 starts at $250Au here, either you're getting taxed hard at launch, or you're looking at the top end boards


There's a few inexpensive X570 boards, but the high end is HIGH and overall these are much more expensive than X470 was at launch.

Wheras the spread used to be from ~$100 - $3/400 with an average of say $175, its now ~$150-$100 with a lot of these well over $250.


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## PaddieMayne (Jul 11, 2019)

Surely youre better off paying for a highend X470 like the ASUS ROG CROSSHAIR VII Hero, rather than paying the same money for a low to mid tier X570 board?


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## EarthDog (Jul 11, 2019)

Depends on your goals...


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## bug (Jul 11, 2019)

PaddieMayne said:


> Surely youre better off paying for a highend X470 like the ASUS ROG CROSSHAIR VII Hero, rather than paying the same money for a low to mid tier X570 board?


You loose on those CPU connected PCIe lanes which look pretty sweet to me.


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## PaddieMayne (Jul 11, 2019)

If youre talking a normal Single Card gaming system then id say High End X470 all day long.


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## Assimilator (Jul 11, 2019)

W1zzard said:
			
		

> With this data, and the data from our PCIe gen 4.0 scaling article, we are happy to report that you can save yourself anywhere between $70 to $150 by choosing an X470 motherboard over an X570 variant.



Until the retailers figure out that X570 isn't selling well, while the "obsolete" X470 and X370 models are flying off shelves... then we'll see an "adjustment" to the prices of the latter and Ryzen will no longer be the value-for-money platform. X470 is essentially a money-printing machine for motherboard manufacturers right now, and I reckon it will probably become AMD's most-sold chipset, particularly since the A- and B-500 series are only expected in 2020.


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## bug (Jul 11, 2019)

Assimilator said:


> Until the retailers figure out that X570 isn't selling well, while the "obsolete" X470 and X370 models are flying off shelves... then we'll see an "adjustment" to the prices of the latter and Ryzen will no longer be the value-for-money platform. X470 is essentially a money-printing machine for motherboard manufacturers right now, and I reckon it will probably become AMD's most-sold chipset, particularly since the A- and B-500 series are only expected in 2020.


Makes you wonder what was AMD thinking slapping on such a price premium for a feature that's borderline useless today.
Then again, X470 was already pretty fully featured, they needed a differentiator. The thing is, if I am to switch, I'm tempted to pay the premium (the upgrade will be good 3 years or more after all), but I really, really, really dislike the fan on the southbridge.


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## Xzibit (Jul 11, 2019)

bug said:


> *Makes you wonder what was AMD thinking slapping on such a price premium for a feature that's borderline useless today.*
> Then again, X470 was already pretty fully featured, they needed a differentiator. The thing is, if I am to switch, I'm tempted to pay the premium (the upgrade will be good 3 years or more after all), but I really, really, really dislike the fan on the southbridge.



X470 boards run PCIE 2.0 thru chipset. The Entry level X570 boards = mid-range X470 with none of the connectivity sharing downgrades.

You can run 2 NVMEs + 6 Sata drives without sacrificing 2 Sata. Unless you want a 3rd NVME


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## bug (Jul 11, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> X470 boards run PCIE 2.0 thru chipset. The Entry level X570 boards = mid-range X470 with none of the connectivity downgrades.
> 
> You can run 2 NVMEs + 6 Sata drives without sacrificing 2 Sata. Unless you want a 3rd NVME


Hey, I said "borderline"


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## Assimilator (Jul 11, 2019)

bug said:


> Makes you wonder what was AMD thinking slapping on such a price premium for a feature that's borderline useless today.
> Then again, X470 was already pretty fully featured, they needed a differentiator.



It's marketing, pure and simple - X570 is nothing more than a vehicle to sell Ryzen 2 CPUs. An entire platform being released makes for better marketing hype than just a single product, and AMD's marketing team certainly nailed it this time around.



bug said:


> The thing is, if I am to switch, I'm tempted to pay the premium (the upgrade will be good 3 years or more after all)



AMD has stated that AM4 will support all future processors through 2020. Reading between the lines, that means a new socket in 2021, so any board you buy has at best 2 years of life. I also expect PCIe 4 will actually become useful around 2021, so I'm saving my cash for a big bang upgrade then; circumstances dictate that I need to build a new system right now, but it will be fairly modest (3600 at best, more likely a second-hand Zen+ or Zen).



bug said:


> but I really, really, really dislike the fan on the southbridge.



Don't we all?

One of Gigabyte's top-tier models has a heatpipe instead of a fan, I expect (hope) to see this feature appear on new revisions of other boards - back in the nForce/P45/X58 days, heatpipes were the rule rather than the exception and I honestly don't know why more manufacturers didn't use them for X570. I wonder how many RMAs are gonna be due to dead fans...


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## bug (Jul 11, 2019)

Assimilator said:


> It's marketing, pure and simple - X570 is nothing more than a vehicle to sell Ryzen 2 CPUs. An entire platform being released makes for better marketing hype than just a single product, and AMD's marketing team certainly nailed it this time around.


I disagree. These CPUs working on previous boards would have gained AMD enough praise. Throwing expensive motherboards with a SB fan to the mix just seems to throw a monkey wrench into an otherwise flawless execution.


Assimilator said:


> AMD has stated that AM4 will support all future processors through 2020. Reading between the lines, that means a new socket in 2021, so any board you buy has at best 2 years of life. I also expect PCIe 4 will actually become useful around 2021, so I'm saving my cash for a big bang upgrade then; circumstances dictate that I need to build a new system right now, but it will be fairly modest (3600 at best, more likely a second-hand Zen+ or Zen).


Not an issue for me. Even if something else gets released in 2021, it will probably not be worth an upgrade from Zen2.
Also, don't you just love it when 3600 is the "modest" option?


Assimilator said:


> One of Gigabyte's top-tier models has a heatpipe instead of a fan, I expect (hope) to see this feature appear on new revisions of other boards - back in the nForce/P45/X58 days, heatpipes were the rule rather than the exception and I honestly don't know why more manufacturers didn't use them for X570. I wonder how many RMAs are gonna be due to dead fans...


I dug up P45's southbridge, ICH10 was a 4.5W part. Less than half of what we're looking at here.
My problem isn't so much the fan dying, as it becoming loud/whiny. Many seller will not RMA a board because of that.


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## Xzibit (Jul 11, 2019)

bug said:


> I dug up P45's southbridge, ICH10 was a 4.5W part. Less than half of what we're looking at here.
> *My problem isn't so much the fan dying, as it becoming loud/whiny. Many seller will not RMA a board because of that.*



Get a Noctua PWM 60mm fan as a replacement


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## bug (Jul 11, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> Get a Noctua PWM 60mm fan as a replacement


Not available over here, I'm afraid. And yes, I would fix that. But not everybody can.


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## Assimilator (Jul 11, 2019)

bug said:


> Also, don't you just love it when 3600 is the "modest" option?



Hells yeah!



bug said:


> I dug up P45's southbridge, ICH10 was a 4.5W part. Less than half of what we're looking at here.



It's the north bridges that generated heat on the platforms I mentioned, and despite X570 being a south bridge, it dissipates north bridge levels of power. Unfortunately I can't seem to find any docs on what exactly P45 generated, but it was definitely the hot one in the systems (most X58 boards had a simple passive heatsink on the ICH10R).

Man, looking back at those P45 boards makes me shudder... so much bling. RGB is bad, but it's definitely nowhere near those dozen-different-colours brass-heatsinks-everywhere monstrosities.



Xzibit said:


> Get a Noctua PWM 60mm fan as a replacement



Which probably won't fit with the board's aesthetic. Or will block PCIe cards. Or won't be able to be mounted securely. Or...

I like DIY and Macguyvering as much as the next guy, but I'm not willing to spend *my* time, money and effort on essentially fixing a poor design choice.


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## mtb scotland (Jul 17, 2019)

I'm interested to know the VRM temps with the x470 gaming m7 and the 3900x.


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