# Samsung B-die (20 nm): Has EOL been Canceled, Mass Production Continued?



## Vycyous (May 26, 2019)

As reported by seemingly every computer technology website, Samsung Semiconductor had recently announced the end of life status for its famed 20 nm B-die DDR4 SDRAM. Samsung's own website also indicated this, as we can see below in the screenshot I clipped when the news was making the rounds.

At the time, I incorrectly thought that the BIRC, BITD, and BIWE variations might have been 10 nm B-die. However, after reading through the datasheet with a bit more attention to detail, I've discovered those are simply "industrial temp" variations. As of right now, if you look at Samsung's website, you'll see what is shown in the second clipped screenshot below. By the way, I've chosen to show only the most relevant 8Gb (1GB) densities, which may be the most widely used and are preferred for overclocking in their 1GB x 8/single-rank arrangement.

So, has Samsung decided to continue production of its 20 nm B-die memory, or is this simply a website error?


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## Space Lynx (May 26, 2019)

do they make 16gb b-die yet?  I'd like 16 gb 2x 32 total b-die


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## TheMadDutchDude (May 26, 2019)

There's better on the horizon. I'd wait.


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## Vycyous (May 26, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> do they make 16gb b-die yet?  I'd like 16 gb 2x 32 total b-die



Supposedly... I guess, but I don't know of any being used in consumer-grade products. I'm guessing it's reserved for server memory.









						DDR4 RAM | DRAM | Samsung Semiconductor Global
					

Samsung DDR4 RAM offers reliable top speed with increased bandwidth and delivers speeds up to 3,200Mbps, capacities up to 32GB, and 1.2V voltage.




					www.samsung.com
				






TheMadDutchDude said:


> There's better on the horizon. I'd wait.



That's always the hope. Micron's new E-die is definitely getting some attention, including from me. I couldn't help myself and recently purchased two Ballistix memory kits to see for myself what they can do. I'm still waiting for them to arrive.









						Achievement Unlocked: Ballistix DRAM crushes world DDR4 overclocking record at 5726MT/s
					

Overclockers used the Ballistix Elite 3600MT/s to set a new overclocking record for the fastest DDR4 memory frequency at a blistering 5726MT/s.




					www.micron.com


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## Final_Fighter (May 26, 2019)

sounds like they announced it as eol to keep the prices artificially inflated.


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## Vycyous (May 26, 2019)

Final_Fighter said:


> sounds like they announced it as eol to keep the prices artificially inflated.



Considering their past misgivings, that wouldn't be too difficult to believe.


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## sneekypeet (May 26, 2019)

Vycyous said:


> Supposedly... I guess, but I don't know of any being used in consumer-grade products. I'm guessing it's reserved for server memory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



May want to have a look at Hynix M-die too. The kit I have is impressive!


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## Vycyous (May 27, 2019)

sneekypeet said:


> May want to have a look at Hynix M-die too. The kit I have is impressive!



I only have one SK Hynix MFR/M-die (25 nm) memory kit and it does okay. They're 8GB (8Gb x 8), single-rank DIMMs rated for 2400 MT/s CL15 and, without trying too hard, I've managed to quite easily get them up to 3200 MT/s CL16 @ just 1.35V. They don't seem to scale well with voltage, however, so pushing it above 1.35V doesn't necessarily mean higher speeds and/or tighter timings. It's been a while since I've messed with it, but I think I remember having trouble getting it stable at much of anything above 3200 MT/s, let alone tightening the timings even further; Hynix AFR/A-die (21 nm) tends to do a bit better. Also, I think they discontinued production of MFR/M-die quite a while ago.

As far as SK Hynix goes, I'm much more impressed with their CJR/C-die (18 nm) memory. I have three kits using those ICs and they all overclock quite well, easily hitting 3733 MT/s CL17 @ 1.35V and it seems they can do even better and will scale well with voltage. Unfortunately, I'm somewhat limited by the platforms I'm using, but I plan to do more testing as soon as I can find the time.


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## sneekypeet (May 27, 2019)

Came to me in a set of Adata XPG Spectrix D60G.  Also keep in mind, what you are about to see is quad-channel clocking results, which is typically much harder than dual-channel! They will do more, but this is what i got using parameters many will not think is out of line for 24/7 usage. Maybe I should quit being lazy and test them with my dual channel chip.


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## Vycyous (May 27, 2019)

sneekypeet said:


> Came to me in a set of Adata XPG Spectrix D60G  Also keep in mind, what you are about to see is quad-channel clocking results, which is typically much harder than dual-channel!



Interesting. Maybe it is still in production, but I can't even find it on the SK Hynix website (and haven't been able to for a long time). It's also interesting that Adata is using the "VK" 2666 MT/s rated ICs, and that they're a "downbin" (I've also seen that on Patriot memory kits using both Samsung B-die and Hynix CJR/C-die). The MFR/M-die kit I have is "UH" 2400 MT/s rated speed.

What have you managed to overclock it to?


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## sneekypeet (May 27, 2019)

CPU-z has what I did in quad channel. These are supposedly new ICs. I heard rumors for a week, then this kit showed up.


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## Vycyous (May 27, 2019)

sneekypeet said:


> CPU-z has what I did in quad channel. These are supposedly new ICs. I heard rumors for a week, then this kit showed up.



Those are some nice results. Have you tried a command rate of 1T? The tRFC seems a bit high, but most of my memory overclocking experience is with Samsung B-die. Even so, with quad-channel, I'm guessing the results are quite impressive.

Edit: Oh, and what kind of voltages did you have to use?


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## R-T-B (May 27, 2019)

Kinda on topic:

What's a used (fair shape, great performance but slightly scuffed heatsinks) set of Sammy b-die 4x8GB worth these days?  G.Skill brand non-RGB TridentZs 3200Mhz CL14

No need to thread clutter just curious the average


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## MrGenius (May 27, 2019)

I'm probably going to skip over DDR4 altogether. Like I did with DDR2. I mean as far as overclocking. I have a DDR2 machine, but it can't be OCed. I also have DDR and DDR3 machines with some of the best overclocking sticks(respectively) money can buy. I might dabble in some DDR4 eventually though. We'll see...

Bottom line: Samsung B-die? Meh...ATM at least...I couldn't care less. Looking forward to some DDR5.


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## Vycyous (May 27, 2019)

R-T-B said:


> Kinda on topic:
> 
> What's a used (fair shape, great performance but slightly scuffed heatsinks) set of Sammy b-die 4x8GB worth these days?  G.Skill brand non-RGB TridentZs 3200Mhz CL14
> 
> No need to thread clutter just curious the average



Personally, I wouldn't pay more than about $225 (USD) for a 4 x 8GB set. Good Samsung B-die (I consider good to be rated at a speed and CAS latency that calculates to about 9 ns or less) has sold brand new for about that price, or less, in the past.

I actually got really lucky the other day and bought a 2 x 8GB kit for $91 (USD). I think it was an error, but they still shipped it to me. It's a DDR4-4000 CL18 kit, which is right at my self-imposed 9 ns threshold, but it will easily do not just 3200 MT/s CL14 (8.75 ns), but also 3600 MT/s CL14 (7.78 ns). I'm still doing some testing with it. Unfortunately, 4000 MT/s is very difficult to attain on all of the platforms I currently have, but that hasn't stopped me from tightening the timings. Also, I'm not a fan of the RGB, but Team's Night Hawk, Dark Pro, and Xtreem memory kits are built with exceptionally high standards; very solid feel to them.


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## R-T-B (May 27, 2019)

Vycyous said:


> Personally, I wouldn't pay more than about $225 (USD) for a 4 x 8GB set. Good Samsung B-die (I consider good to be rated at a speed and CAS latency that calculates to about 9 ns or less) has sold brand new for about that price, or less, in the past.



Heh, I know, that's what I paid initially.  In 2016.  Was just curious thanks for the info. 



Vycyous said:


> also 3600 MT/s CL14 (7.78 ns).



That's where my kit maxes out.  Takes a tad bit of voltage to get there though. (1.475v)


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## biffzinker (May 27, 2019)

sneekypeet said:


> CPU-z has what I did in quad channel. These are supposedly new ICs. I heard rumors for a week, then this kit showed up.


Newest version of CPU-Z v1.89 now reports DRAM Chip brand. Still nothing reads mine except for thaiphoon burner hints at the chips being Hynix brand.


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