# Nvidia or ATI



## asb2106 (Jan 28, 2008)

Ok, so a few may already know, I fried my 3870 today .  

I am already looking at a new mobo and new memory

And since Im not stuck to a 3870 crossfire board(wanted to go crossfire at same time)

Should I go to the Nvidia 780 chipset and a 8800gts G92?
maybe add a second with tax refund, or wait for next gens

I think those cards rock and they are the fastest out there.  Figure I get one now and have a good Nvidia board for when the next gen comes out.

Please EVERYBODY chime in, I have been with ATI for 5 years and it feels like a marriage that Im tired of, but not jumping to break it off.  I want to go Nvidia but I have had issues with drivers on my friends 8600GTS.  The windows driver stops responding screen goes blank then comes back, but it takes like 10 secs, happens maybe 2 times a month.  Its troubles like that that I dont want and thats why ATI and I have got along.  Do other Nvidia users have these problems, 

AND THE MAIN QUESTION, should i switch to 780, is so, what board
                and then i would get just one 8800gts g92
               maybe add a second with tax refund, or wait for next gens

***If I stick with ATI, I would get a 3870x2 and a x48 Rampage formula(when its released)

Im really stuck!


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## ShadowFold (Jan 28, 2008)

I would get a HD3870X2 like you said with a X48, thats gonna pwn!


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## asb2106 (Jan 28, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> I would get a HD3870X2 like you said with a X48, thats gonna pwn!



well i guess if I would add the second gts, I could almost do the same thing with an X2.

Well Im gonna spend the next week getting my card replaced, I have to go through GECUBE, and so far it doesnt look easy, I have submitted a RMA but they have no offices in states, so I dont know how this is gonna go, when I get a new one back I think Im gonna sell it, or just buy another 3870 with my x48 board go 3870 xfire, should hold me off for a year,


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 28, 2008)

X2


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## DaMulta (Jan 28, 2008)

This is what I want to do....

http://ec.transcendusa.com/product/ItemDetail.asp?ItemID=TS256MFB72V6U-T
4 of these $312
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117149
2 of these $295.00 45nm Quads

About 900USD

then the motherboard 500(Skulltrail)this must be bought ASAP when u see it. They say only 500 will be made.



So about 1500 for a bad ass system to bench on!!!


Now I just need to come up with the cash flow.


Tax time is here, and I'm moving. Any money left might be going to this....


For the video card X2 hands down. You will see in a few days.


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## asb2106 (Jan 28, 2008)

now this may come from my ignorance, but wouldnt a set of Crucial Ballistix Memory at like 1066 run much faster and allow a much higer OC than those transend, or is this just me?


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## DaMulta (Jan 28, 2008)

For the Skulltrail you have to run FB-DIMM memory.


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## asb2106 (Jan 28, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> For the Skulltrail you have to run FB-DIMM memory.



ohh fully buffered right, I see, is that available in 800 or higher?

OR is fully buffered just really strong>??


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## Mussels (Jan 28, 2008)

My suggestion would be intel x38/x48 and an 8800GTS G92.

I dont see the need for crossfire or SLI, but the GTS G92 can run passively on an accelero S1 cooler and is quite fast. I have considered dropping my GTX to one of those cards, because they can be made silent at very close speeds to my GTX.


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## asb2106 (Jan 28, 2008)

Mussels said:


> My suggestion would be intel x38/x48 and an 8800GTS G92.
> 
> I dont see the need for crossfire or SLI, but the GTS G92 can run passively on an accelero S1 cooler and is quite fast. I have considered dropping my GTX to one of those cards, because they can be made silent at very close speeds to my GTX.



Not a bad idea, I was pretty excited to hear of the r700 and what it might have.  

So that would leave me that option, and a g92 is strong in the benches, I dont do a ton of gaming either, I think I do it more for the fun of it.  When I do play I want it to look great!


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## vega22 (Jan 28, 2008)

skull trsin is sli too soo....2 x2 in xfirex and x gx2 in qsli,bring on the benches bitches 



sorry i had to.


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## asb2106 (Jan 28, 2008)

u think it would work?


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## Mussels (Jan 28, 2008)

asb2106 said:


> Not a bad idea, I was pretty excited to hear of the r700 and what it might have.
> 
> So that would leave me that option, and a g92 is strong in the benches, I dont do a ton of gaming either, I think I do it more for the fun of it.  When I do play I want it to look great!



in my experience, intel chipsets OC the latest intels better. Me and my brother got shafted with 650i/680i because they wouldnt take quads, yet intel 975x and P965 can both run and OC quads with a decent chance of success.

So if we grab a X38 now, we can OC a 45nm quad for sure, with very good odds on the next 1-2 generations of CPU being overclockable as well.

Yes, ATI would make sense for crossfire - except that half of these boards PCI-E slots are either 16/4, or 8/8.

Personally i find SLI and crossfire a waste of power, as it takes so much more power to run even when you're just bumming around on TPU in firefox.


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## DaMulta (Jan 28, 2008)

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/266


> The main difference between FB-DIMM modules and regular DIMM modules is that on FB-DIMM the communication between the memory controller (chipset) and the module is serial, in the same way that occurs with PCI Express, while on standard DIMM modules this communication is parallel.


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## vega22 (Jan 28, 2008)

only one or the other as i think they may cuase driver confilcts if both are active.


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## asb2106 (Jan 28, 2008)

Mussels said:


> I find SLI and crossfire a waste of power, as it takes so much more power to run even when you're just bumming around on TPU in firefox.



Well thats 100% the truth.  And since I have signed up I find myself here alot

I like it for the show I guess, I build computers for a second job and alot of customers like to see my PC and I always like to keep it with the "cool" stuff like SLI, and xfire.  It has made sales easier to show them my "crazy" water cooling and mass of nice hardware, it influences bigger sales and I like to show it off I guess

Ohh and my water cooling is not crazy by any means, but to the average dell user it sure is


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## DaMulta (Jan 28, 2008)

BTW if you do go with Skulltrail you don't have to buy both CPUS at the same time. The board should run just fine with one CPU installed.

Crossfire will really take off driver wise soon because of the X2 cards. Then the R700 will be coming out at the end of the year making Crossfire work even better.


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## asb2106 (Jan 28, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/266



bad link


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## asb2106 (Jan 28, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> BTW if you do go with Skulltrail you don't have to buy both CPUS at the same time. The board should run just fine with one CPU installed.
> 
> Crossfire will really take off driver wise soon because of the X2 cards. Then the R700 will be coming out at the end of the year making Crossfire work even better.



yah i would hope so, I have thought of skull trail but I really like the Rampage Formula board, although I am really a CPU junkie, I mainly have a big proc for my SETI, so I am sure it would like to have 8 cores!

If your familiar with BOINCstats  -> http://boincstats.com/stats/boinc_user_graph.php?pr=bo&id=86d22c03797cf20d9cfaa5e0cbed3139


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## asb2106 (Jan 28, 2008)

boinc stats
1,000,000 points
8,000 RAC
20+ hosts


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## DaMulta (Jan 28, 2008)

asb2106 said:


> bad link



Their site seems to be down right now. You can't even go to their homepage.


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## asb2106 (Jan 28, 2008)

any news on when skulltrail is comin??  What kinda NB is it, like a x48 or something competely different


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## orbital (Jan 28, 2008)

hmmmm


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## CDdude55 (Jan 28, 2008)

Like i said in the other thread. Thats a good excuse to get a 3870 X2!


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Jan 28, 2008)

x2


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## Mussels (Jan 29, 2008)

CDdude55 said:


> Like i said in the other thread. Thats a good excuse to get a 3870 X2!



except that wizz did a review of it here on TPU, and its not living up to the hype. 3870 is only fast when other cards already breach 100 FPS, or it has an advantage at such high res all the cards are unplayable anyway.


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## CDdude55 (Jan 29, 2008)

Mussels said:


> except that wizz did a review of it here on TPU, and its not living up to the hype. 3870 is only fast when other cards already breach 100 FPS, or it has an advantage at such high res all the cards are unplayable anyway.




Thats pretty sad:shadedshu. Hopefully the 9800 GX2 will perform well. But will need a good CPU to handle then in SLi.


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## erocker (Jan 29, 2008)

CDdude55 said:


> Thats pretty sad:shadedshu. Hopefully the 9800 GX2 will perform well. But will need a good CPU to handle then in SLi.



I honestly doubt the GX2 will be anything great.  I don't feel the 3870x2 is all that great right now either.  We'll have to see how things go.  Nvidia doesn't have history on thier side when it comes to dual-gpu cards.


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## Mussels (Jan 29, 2008)

erocker said:


> I honestly doubt the GX2 will be anything great.  I don't feel the 3870x2 is all that great right now either.  We'll have to see how things go.  Nvidia doesn't have history on thier side when it comes to dual-gpu cards.



no one does, really. dual GPU cards have always been flops.


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## farlex85 (Jan 29, 2008)

Mussels said:


> except that wizz did a review of it here on TPU, and its not living up to the hype. 3870 is only fast when other cards already breach 100 FPS, or it has an advantage at such high res all the cards are unplayable anyway.



Yes and as I recall the G92 GTS actually beat the x2 in a number of benchies, except the ones played at very high resolutions. And the GTS is over $100 cheaper. I say unless you got a wicked monitor go with the x38/x48 evga gts combo. Then when the 9800s come out you can do the step-up program if they r worth the trouble.


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## CDdude55 (Jan 29, 2008)

erocker said:


> I honestly doubt the GX2 will be anything great.  I don't feel the 3870x2 is all that great right now either.  We'll have to see how things go.  Nvidia doesn't have history on thier side when it comes to dual-gpu cards.



Good point. If they both suck i will just just me some console games instead.


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## CDdude55 (Jan 29, 2008)

The 3870 X2 is good for only high res gaming. But anything below at least a 22'' should just get the 8800 series cards IMO. Even with dual GPU's it still fails against the Ultra at a lower res. I just hope the 9800 GX2 isn't like the 7950 GX2.


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## asb2106 (Jan 29, 2008)

well i game at 1920 x 1200, I was at newegg and I was 30 seconds away from buying a 3870x2 but I just couldnt do it.  I want to do more thinking before I do, and get those tax returns!


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## snuif09 (Jan 29, 2008)

go for an x2


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## ChillyMyst (Jan 29, 2008)

i would go with the 3870x2 personaly, i have an 8800gt 512 and its nice BUT its drivers have their annoing little flaws/querks that just nagg at me, I went from an x1900xtx to this and to be honest the control center for nvidia is nicer then ati's CCC, BUT they got some driver issues like the YV12 color spacing being broken and certen games erroring out if you have ur driver settings to high for the game(makes u think ur cards going out!!!), as well as the driver bug that hits some people causing an INSTANT BSOD when you try and run anything other then basic 2d desktop apps, the yv12 and bsod issues have been known for over a year or YEARS even and nvidia hasnt seen fit to take the time to fix them, they are to worried about getting a few extra fps in the latist games like crysis......

honestly i think you will be happyer with the ati/amd card then with the nvidia at this point, and that x2 looks sweet.

btw ATI's dual x1950pro was a good card, the only problem was that sapphire wanted to much for it and didnt shrink the PCB from its design stage size(should see the size some motherboards are b4 they go thru a shrink!!!!)
my friend ted had 2 of the dual 1950 cards in his 580 board, VERY fast and acctualy worked pretty well, unlike the 2 7950gx2's he had in another rig(and sold because nvidia pretty much said they where not going to fix quad sli)

oh as to the 16/4 and 8/8 thing with pci-e, from what i have seen its not really an issue with CF that use the internal brige, if they dont have a brige then it can be a problem but we are talking HIGH end cards here.


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## Mussels (Jan 29, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> i would go with the 3870x2 personaly, i have an 8800gt 512 and its nice BUT its drivers have their annoing little flaws/querks that just nagg at me, I went from an x1900xtx to this and to be honest the control center for nvidia is nicer then ati's CCC, BUT they got some driver issues like the YV12 color spacing being broken and certen games erroring out if you have ur driver settings to high for the game(makes u think ur cards going out!!!), as well as the driver bug that hits some people causing an INSTANT BSOD when you try and run anything other then basic 2d desktop apps, the yv12 and bsod issues have been known for over a year or YEARS even and nvidia hasnt seen fit to take the time to fix them, they are to worried about getting a few extra fps in the latist games like crysis......
> 
> honestly i think you will be happyer with the ati/amd card then with the nvidia at this point, and that x2 looks sweet.
> 
> ...



Just on the NV problems - with three 8800's in the house, and the several i've sold to friends we have
 8600GT, 8800GT, 8800GTS (g80 and G92) and 3 8800GTX cards. The ONLY times i've had problems/crashes with the drivers (in infamous BSOD/crashes) was with a faulty or insufficient power supply, or an unstable system. My storage system was overclocked while a friend was gaming on it at a LAN event, and it kept spitting driver errors, even at stock - raised the ram votlage a notch, turned up the power on the PSU (OCZ powerstream has adjustable voltage rails) and we have NOT seen the problem since.

The drivers arent as bad as people think - its just other problems trigger off the drivers to reset, so people blame the drivers. (its about as retarded as being pulled over by the cops for speeding, and blaming the cop because you werent aware of it before he told you, so he must have been the cause)


I agree drivers are horrible for the 7950 GX2, those cards never worked right and drivers were nonexistant. i ran crossfire, and briefly 8800GTX SLI on some DFI boards that you could adjust the internal bandwidth - found SLI to be more prone to the lower bandwidth slots (the GTX's liked around 12x/12x, while ATI was happy with 8x/8x)

I think the ATI uses the bridge more efficiently, rather than the PCI-E bus.


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## ChillyMyst (Jan 29, 2008)

the BSOD had nothing to do with my psu, same psu after 3 windows reinstalls and now the system is stable,it was 100% a driver bug, BFG head tech Jeff comfermed my problem and found other reports on the net about it, it mostly seems to effect server 2003 and os's based on that suck as xp x64 and even some vista systems!!!!

and i agree with the cf/sli thing, really nvidia just cloned alot of what voodoo had dont to get their dual card setups, the problem was they didnt do it very well, and it ended up being alot less efficent, where as ati started from scratch , the external dongle was a "bad" move but still as long as you got it setup it worked fine.  once they moved to internal brige ati moved ahead, you get a larger boost even in boards that had 16x slots that changed into 4x slots when you used 2 of them(have only seen 2 of these boards but they do excist)

even brigless CF is more efficent with nvidia you really need 16x+16x for it to give proper perf, on the other hand with CF it can be 8x+8x and its gonns work just fine.

nvidia put that 7950gx2 out and everybody was all gaga for it, remmber arguements between ppl like me and the crazy ppl about the gx2 cards not really being 1gb, sure they have 1gb, but each chip only has 512, so you still dont really have 1gb texture memory, thats not how SLI works, but then most of the ppl who got those cards ended up VERY pissed when nv abandoned them :/

on the other hand the 1950pro x2 cards where just treated as normal crossfire setups on a singel card, so it wasnt an issue to get working driver support, it didnt take any kind of special drivers to make them work   as i understand it they are effectivly 2 cards one is purly a slave tho(no outputs for video) and they use an internal cf brige to link them as well, very efficent and 1 pcb(huge ass pcb tho  )

well back to zoids genisis


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## asb2106 (Jan 31, 2008)

thats the same problem my buddy has with his 8600gts, when loading a 3d app his screen will blank out and sometimes come back with a driver failed error, other times it just locks up.  I know the PS is powerful enough, It powered my 7800gtx SLI system.

the first thing we thought was that it was the CPU/RAM.  So we put everything back to stock and make sure it had more than enough power. 

Still to this day I think its related to his MOBO (ECS Nivida 570) CRAP.  But he wanted to stay cheap


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## Poulpy (Jan 31, 2008)

Personnaly i would go with an ATI X2 as you will be able to do three or four way xfire when the drivers come out. Three way SLI (and no four way) is only available on Highest End NVIDIA VCs.

As much as i am pissed at ATI for crossfire driver support (which is improving) i still think its the best performance/price ratio.

Also most of my performance issues vanished when i siwtched to the maximus formula (X38) which has 2 * full *16 PCI-E slots.

And to say something already said many times......Crossfire scales up better than SLI.


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## asb2106 (Jan 31, 2008)

Poulpy said:


> Personnaly i would go with an ATI X2 as you will be able to do three or four way xfire when the drivers come out. Three way SLI (and no four way) is only available on Highest End NVIDIA VCs.
> 
> As much as i am pissed at ATI for crossfire driver support (which is improving) i still think its the best performance/price ratio.
> 
> ...



well im gonna get the rampage formula (ASUS x48) as soon as it gets released, and I think im gonna go single card, either a x2 or g92 gts.  

I like the g92 because I wont need to upgrade my PS but if I get the x2 I will.  So its not only an extra 100 for the card but another 200 for a good PS.  So I guess it depends on my tax refund!


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## candle_86 (Jan 31, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> the BSOD had nothing to do with my psu, same psu after 3 windows reinstalls and now the system is stable,it was 100% a driver bug, BFG head tech Jeff comfermed my problem and found other reports on the net about it, it mostly seems to effect server 2003 and os's based on that suck as xp x64 and even some vista systems!!!!
> 
> and i agree with the cf/sli thing, really nvidia just cloned alot of what voodoo had dont to get their dual card setups, the problem was they didnt do it very well, and it ended up being alot less efficent, where as ati started from scratch , the external dongle was a "bad" move but still as long as you got it setup it worked fine.  once they moved to internal brige ati moved ahead, you get a larger boost even in boards that had 16x slots that changed into 4x slots when you used 2 of them(have only seen 2 of these boards but they do excist)
> 
> ...



It wasnt untill this year that crossfire caught up with SLI, I think thats something your all forgetting, for a long time Crossfire had deminishing returns. Now they caught up with SLI so you dis SLI, how extremly funny. Also where did you get the idea its Voodoo SLI, look at the deal, SLI tech was sold to another company, Nvidia did not gain rights to SLI, only the name SLI, they also built theres from the ground up but using tried and true methods of splitting the work load


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## asb2106 (Jan 31, 2008)

candle_86 said:


> It wasnt untill this year that crossfire caught up with SLI, I think thats something your all forgetting, for a long time Crossfire had deminishing returns. Now they caught up with SLI so you dis SLI, how extremly funny. Also where did you get the idea its Voodoo SLI, look at the deal, SLI tech was sold to another company, Nvidia did not gain rights to SLI, only the name SLI, they also built theres from the ground up but using tried and true methods of splitting the work load



Crossfire sucked until they went to an internal bridge.

The x1000 series was released before crossfire was introduced, and they tried to add xfire to an exstiting platform, to me thats an accomplishment in itself, once they had that in place and made new cards around it crossfire really came into its own.  To me it doesnt matter who did it first, or who did it better, its who does it better now.  And thats clearly crossfire


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## asb2106 (Jan 31, 2008)

heres what im thinkin.....

(NEED)ASUS Rampage Formula
(HAVE)Q6600
(HAVE)G-Skill ddr2 1000 2 x 2 kit
(NEED)ATI 3870x2 or Nvidia 8800gts g92
(IF)i got x2 I need a PS - PC Power Cooling 750 Orange
(NEED) Gigabyte 3dmars case
(NEED) TEC setup to add to my water

What you think?


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## DanishDevil (Jan 31, 2008)

I'm not an intel guy, but other than that it looks pretty good.  You've got a good PSU choice.  I've got an Enermax Liberty, and while it's nice to have modular cables, they are a BITCH to sleeve (look @ pics of the PSU to see why - each cable has a molex and a sata right next to eachother for "easier upgrades") and when I upgrade I'm thinking of that PSU myself.

Looks great other than that nasty Q6600  I paid $100 for my X2 5000+ Black and I bumped it to 3GHz in ten seconds no hassle. But if you've got the money, that should be a good setup.


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## anticlutch (Jan 31, 2008)

nVidia has raw power but shoddy driver support. ATi on the other hand, has weaker hardware but is constantly improving their drivers. Depends on what you want really...


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## asb2106 (Jan 31, 2008)

anticlutch said:


> nVidia has raw power but shoddy driver support. ATi on the other hand, has weaker hardware but is constantly improving their drivers. Depends on what you want really...



thats the trouble, Ive been an ATI guy ever since my 9800, but for last few generations Nvidia has really outperformed.  I would save about 300 bucks by going with the gts, but Id like to get the PS for the future too.  The trupower can only handle so much, and this upgrade is basically gonna be just to get me through till summer, then I want to go with the next gen Nvidia 9000 series or the r700's that ATI is working on.

Im really stuck here, it seems those two will be very evenly matched in real performance


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## Crazyhorse (Jan 31, 2008)

asb2106 said:


> heres what im thinkin.....
> 
> (NEED)ASUS Rampage Formula
> (HAVE)Q6600
> ...



I think with that Rig you can actually go to Newegg.com and buy 2 x HD 2900 Pro 256bit and still be good on the power and save a huge amount of money. 2 x HD 2900 Pro 512mb 256bit = $300 - $15 MIR since its only 1 per household. 

And if you clock it up to 750/1000 you be more then happy i think. Peformance is quiet similar to the HD 3870 at same speeds other then no DDR4, no DX 10.1 and a little bid more power usage.


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## asb2106 (Jan 31, 2008)

Crazyhorse said:


> I think with that Rig you can actually go to Newegg.com and buy 2 x HD 2900 Pro 256bit and still be good on the power and save a huge amount of money. 2 x HD 2900 Pro 512mb 256bit = $300 - $15 MIR since its only 1 per household.
> 
> And if you clock it up to 750/1000 you be more then happy i think. Peformance is quiet similar to the HD 3870 at same speeds other then no DDR4, no DX 10.1 and a little bid more power usage.


thats actually a very interesting approach, and not a bad idea either, i really could care less about dx10.1 and the DDR4 really only saves alittle energy, I havnt noticed any performance increase.  Im definitly gonna look into that.


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## Crazyhorse (Jan 31, 2008)

I just ordered my second card today, i mean $149.99 - $15 MIR there is no card for that price out who can do that kind of damage with 512mb. I m sure the HD 3850 can perform that way overclocked as well but you still have to come up with at least $50 bucks more per card for equial performance. 

My HD 2900 Pro runs right now 750/1000 can do as much as 840/1150 with a 1.15V Bios. And i run that card on a 500W PSU including the whole system overclocked. I ordered a Videocard PSU EP-450CD but that was somewhat dead out of the box. So i m waiting for a replacement i guess i will need it for Crossifre.

Only bad part is that these cards don't come with the Crossfire Bridge so you have to buy one extra.


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## ChillyMyst (Jan 31, 2008)

asb2106 said:


> Crossfire sucked until they went to an internal bridge.
> 
> The x1000 series was released before crossfire was introduced, and they tried to add xfire to an exstiting platform, to me thats an accomplishment in itself, once they had that in place and made new cards around it crossfire really came into its own.  To me it doesnt matter who did it first, or who did it better, its who does it better now.  And thats clearly crossfire



wrong, crossfire was introduced with the x800 line of cards, they started with an external dongle, and once the drivers where worked out it worked well, some people had trouble getting it working, in most situations tho people didnt have problems if they removed the old drivers and cleaned the system with driver cleaner b4 they updated to the new sets.

the external dongle was bad to many people because it to them was a cheap/cheezy way to do it and added more cables to the back of their systems, but in my experiance it worked fine, internal brige worked better once it came out, BUT you didnt see any reviews of the x800/x1900 CF systems compared with the x1950 internal brige systems side by side, the few benches i have seen that did test them showed very little diffrance when using the same base system and drivers.

the internal brige did bring one thing to ati, multi crossfire was possable, 2-3-4 cards linked togather became fully possable, now drivers have yet to mature for quadfire/trifire but we will see what comes later downt he road.

i really cant wait to see GPU phsyics


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## asb2106 (Jan 31, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> wrong, crossfire was introduced with the x800 line of cards,


Sorry, forgot about that, and back then it was horrible


ChillyMyst said:


> the internal brige did bring one thing to ati, multi crossfire was possable, 2-3-4 cards linked togather became fully possable, now drivers have yet to mature for quadfire/trifire but we will see what comes later downt he road.


We will, and I hope its good!


ChillyMyst said:


> i really cant wait to see GPU phsyics


ME 2, didnt they try that already with 2900 series, I remember maximum PC talking about a system with 3 2900's at CES 2007, 2 for graphics and one for physics


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## asb2106 (Jan 31, 2008)

anyone know any news on the release of the 9800's from Nvidia??

When it might be, and what it might do?>


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## DanishDevil (Jan 31, 2008)

asb2106 said:


> anyone know any news on the release of the 9800's from Nvidia??
> 
> When it might be, and what it might do?>



This site's got a lot of information on it:

http://www.geforce9.com/



> GeForce 9800 - February 2008


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## asb2106 (Jan 31, 2008)

DanishDevil said:


> This site's got a lot of information on it:
> 
> http://www.geforce9.com/



cool, thanks man, Ill be keeping an eye on that


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## Mussels (Feb 1, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> wrong, crossfire was introduced with the x800 line of cards, they started with an external dongle, and once the drivers where worked out it worked well, some people had trouble getting it working, in most situations tho people didnt have problems if they removed the old drivers and cleaned the system with driver cleaner b4 they updated to the new sets.
> 
> the external dongle was bad to many people because it to them was a cheap/cheezy way to do it and added more cables to the back of their systems, but in my experiance it worked fine, internal brige worked better once it came out, BUT you didnt see any reviews of the x800/x1900 CF systems compared with the x1950 internal brige systems side by side, the few benches i have seen that did test them showed very little diffrance when using the same base system and drivers.
> 
> ...



the reason early crossfire was a failure wasnt the cable, it was needing a stupidly expensive master card.


----------



## 3991vhtes (Feb 1, 2008)

Nvidia and ATi combined < Trident


----------



## ChillyMyst (Feb 1, 2008)

asb2106 said:


> Sorry, forgot about that, and back then it was horrible
> 
> We will, and I hope its good!
> 
> ME 2, didnt they try that already with 2900 series, I remember maximum PC talking about a system with 3 2900's at CES 2007, 2 for graphics and one for physics



they where acctualy working with havvoc b4 intel bought them out to include GPU phsyics on the next revision of the havoc phsyics engine, and that was under then x1k cards, they said that once it was setup you could grab an 1300/1600 range card and use that to deal with phsyics leaving you cpu to do other tasks like AI, as well as leaving your main GPU free to just worrie about gfx.



Mussels said:


> the reason early crossfire was a failure wasnt the cable, it was needing a stupidly expensive master card.



yeah at first the master card was way overpriced, but at least in my exp the master cards ended up price droping so they wherent that much more then the normal cards, the x1900 master card i got for a buddy was 55bucks more then the 1900xtx he orignaly got(masters wherent out yet) was pretty easy to get that cf setup working once i cleaned the OLD drivers off and slaped the latist ones on it worked fine, infact hes still using it since 2x1900 cards is faster then most of todays high end cards like the 8800gt


----------



## Laurijan (Feb 1, 2008)

8800GTS is a good wife..


----------



## bud951 (Feb 5, 2008)

I can only say by experience that my XFX 780i and dual 8800GT's in SLI rock! Look around the web and you will see the SLI 8800GT/GTS kicks the X2's ass. I cant say what two X2's in CF would do but the numbers were so in favor of the SLI 8800 setups against a single X2 I could only guess that it would not be much if anything. I wish I would have known the g92 was going to be updated to the 8800GTS so soon after I bought my 8800GT's. I would say go with 780i and 2x 8800GTS in SLI if your funds alow. Just my opinion.


----------



## asb2106 (Feb 6, 2008)

hey bud, thanks for the input, that system does sound like a dream come true and I can afford it when taxes come around(I save my taxes every year for my computer).  

I am alittle worried about the 780 chipset though, from what i have read its a good OCer but not a great OCer.  Im liking the x48 because it has shown to have great potential and OC's out the roof!  I was thinkin of pairing it with a 8800gts and just being happy with one video card.  In all honesty I was pretty happy with my game play when I had just a single 3870.


----------



## Nitro-Max (Feb 6, 2008)

Although im usually a dedicated Ati fan and i do own a 3870x2 which is awsome might i add!! Im still going to vote in favour of Nvidia. When i owned my X1900xt pretty much nothing Nvidia had could touch it.It was a top card and ati were the leaders. But i cant help thinking since amd bought into ati preformance of there cards is lacking somewhat i even had a amd cpu what was rated the best single core at the time for gaming a athlon 64 4000+ sandiego oc @3ghz But amd lost that crown too when the new intel conroes came out and now im a intel fan .Seems to me amd is struggling with both sets of competition Nvidia and intel i really hope amd gets back in the fight some day but intel seems way ahead atm and Nvidia is producing some very fast cards.


----------



## asb2106 (Feb 6, 2008)

have you ran any 3dmark runs on your x2 yet??  Id like to see what kind of numbers you get...


----------



## TooFast (Feb 6, 2008)

X2 All The Way. Got 14500 3d 06


----------



## asb2106 (Feb 6, 2008)

TooFast said:


> X2 All The Way. Got 14500 3d 06



those are pretty good numbers with a dual core, but not that great, with my 3870 I got 14,113.  Ive results from a 8800gts with a duel core at 14,800.  Have you overclocked your card at all??


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## ChillyMyst (Feb 6, 2008)

Nitro-Max said:


> Although im usually a dedicated Ati fan and i do own a 3870x2 which is awsome might i add!! Im still going to vote in favour of Nvidia. When i owned my X1900xt pretty much nothing Nvidia had could touch it.It was a top card and ati were the leaders. But i cant help thinking since amd bought into ati preformance of there cards is lacking somewhat i even had a amd cpu what was rated the best single core at the time for gaming a athlon 64 4000+ sandiego oc @3ghz But amd lost that crown too when the new intel conroes came out and now im a intel fan .Seems to me amd is struggling with both sets of competition Nvidia and intel i really hope amd gets back in the fight some day but intel seems way ahead atm and Nvidia is producing some very fast cards.



you need to remmber that the 2900 was designed b4 amd bought ati, it was a mistake but it wasnt amd's fault.

as to single core i had a 3500+ at 2.95(was stable at 3 but being slitly paranoied i backed it off a bit) with my 1900xtx, worked great.

i still have an amd, just went from the 3500 to an x2 4000+, and honestly for real games even an overclocked core2 isnt really any better, i have tested it side by side.

i have an 8800gt now, would love a 3870 or x2 but they wherent out when i got this card.

this card is nice but there are a few driver issues that annoy the hell out of me


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## AphexDreamer (Feb 6, 2008)

ATI BABY!!

Very on topic by the way...


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## asb2106 (Feb 6, 2008)

im really thinking going x48 and 8800gts. 

I really like the new g92's.  I had a 3870 and liked it, but for the money I see the 8800gts being a better deal, that way I can have a good board to go with when the r700's come out.


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## AphexDreamer (Feb 6, 2008)

asb2106 said:


> im really thinking going x48 and 8800gts.
> 
> I really like the new g92's.  I had a 3870 and liked it, but for the money I see the 8800gts being a better deal, that way I can have a good board to go with when the r700's come out.



Get the HD3870 X2 GDDR4 version that should be coming out soon.

Some people have even got it to reach 1ghz on the GDDR3 version with stock cooling and a Vmod.

I think it was in this thread?  http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2751497#post2751497


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## asb2106 (Feb 6, 2008)

AphexDreamer said:


> ATI BABY!!
> 
> Very on topic by the way...



i really loved my 3870, still do, and Im thinking if I can get my 3870 replaced without issue then I will add a second and be happy.  But if I get shafted on that, Im gonna get the 8800gts


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## asb2106 (Feb 6, 2008)

AphexDreamer said:


> Get the HD3870 X2 GDDR4 version that should be coming out soon.
> 
> Some people have even got it to reach 1ghz on the GDDR3 version with stock cooling and a Vmod.
> 
> I think it was in this thread?  http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2751497#post2751497



thats not a terrible idea, Id have to see some results first.  If I could see a steady 20k with the x2 then id be really excited


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## wolf (Feb 6, 2008)

G92GTS single will be ample for 1680x1050, at the moment i believe the X2 is immature and even not that great really, it is priced well tho.

in my opinion a high end dual card setup of any kind whether it be SLi or the forum of the 3870X2 isnt going to be that great because we are on the brink of yet another generational leap.

say you get G92GTS SLi or the X2, yes it will chop big time for now, but in a year a single high end card config should trounce it, not to mention pretty much everything is 512meg atm, whereas the next get should be 1gB+ and 512 bit interface.
not to mention with the shift towards parallelism today, the next gen gfx cards should possess twice or more the amount of sp clusters.

from what i hear ATi will be going dual core on the same die, so 640 shaders on one core, and nvidia should be moving to 384 sp's. all this tech is really exciting and shouldnt be more than a year away from retail market, so, to reiterate:

Dual gpu - not worth it
single gpu - my bet is with G92 in any form, but ati's lineup are great value, so its a matter of preference.

hope my input helps.

wolf.


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## asb2106 (Feb 6, 2008)

wolf said:


> G92GTS single will be ample for 1680x1050, at the moment i believe the X2 is immature and even not that great really, it is priced well tho.
> 
> in my opinion a high end dual card setup of any kind whether it be SLi or the forum of the 3870X2 isnt going to be that great because we are on the brink of yet another generational leap.
> 
> ...



I run 1920x1200, for gaming I would obviously drop it down.  and thats kinda why this is a hold off till the r700's come out.  I like the idea of duel core on the GPU, its about time!   Thats why Im thinkin just going with a g92 on a Intel chipset.


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## wolf (Feb 6, 2008)

asb2106 said:


> Thats why Im thinkin just going with a g92 on a Intel chipset.



for now, thats exactly what i would do, and the G92GTS will game WELL at 1920x1200 excluding the obviously tooo taxing games, naturally.


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## Mussels (Feb 6, 2008)

wolf said:


> for now, thats exactly what i would do, and the G92GTS will game WELL at 1920x1200 excluding the obviously tooo taxing games, naturally.



i know the 8800GT runs 1680x1050 fine, so the GTSG92 should have a fair stab at 1920x1200.

At least with Nvidia you have the scaling options, so you can turn the res down as much as needed


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## wolf (Feb 6, 2008)

Mussels said:


> i know the 8800GT runs 1680x1050 fine, so the GTSG92 should have a fair stab at 1920x1200.



a mate of mine has a G80GTS and runs a 24" 1920x1200 monitor, and games very happily, and considering the G92GTS trounces the G80GTS.....doiiii


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## Scrizz (Feb 6, 2008)

Crazyhorse said:


> I think with that Rig you can actually go to Newegg.com and buy 2 x HD 2900 Pro 256bit and still be good on the power and save a huge amount of money. 2 x HD 2900 Pro 512mb 256bit = $300 - $15 MIR since its only 1 per household.
> 
> And if you clock it up to 750/1000 you be more then happy i think. Peformance is quiet similar to the HD 3870 at same speeds other then no DDR4, no DX 10.1 and a little bid more power usage.



this is the way I'd go now


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## Whilhelm (Feb 6, 2008)

I picked up an HD 3870 X2 and all I can say is wow. 
16270 on 3D Mark 06 at 1280x1024 with the Drivers that came on the disc. It is pretty fast but need to do some proper benchmarking and I will post my results. 

So far I think it was totally worth it.


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## Crazyhorse (Feb 6, 2008)

Whilhelm said:


> I picked up an HD 3870 X2 and all I can say is wow.
> 16270 on 3D Mark 06 at 1280x1024 with the Drivers that came on the disc. It is pretty fast but need to do some proper benchmarking and I will post my results.
> 
> So far I think it was totally worth it.



Sweet, i would like to see a nice benchmark with full AA/AF on 1680 x 1050 thats my monitor resolution or even 1920 x 1200.


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## KainXS (Feb 7, 2008)

ati has the lead with its x2, its even faster than te ultra but still, even if its faster now in a few months it won't and you guys will feel a little screwed

including myself


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## Mussels (Feb 7, 2008)

KainXS said:


> ati has the lead with its x2, its even faster than te ultra but still, even if its faster now in a few months it won't and you guys will feel a little screwed
> 
> including myself



erratic lead. Kinda waiting on drivers to see which is faster - 9800GX2 or ATI 3870 x2


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## bud951 (Feb 7, 2008)

asb2106 said:


> hey bud, thanks for the input, that system does sound like a dream come true and I can afford it when taxes come around(I save my taxes every year for my computer).
> 
> I am alittle worried about the 780 chipset though, from what i have read its a good OCer but not a great OCer.  Im liking the x48 because it has shown to have great potential and OC's out the roof!  I was thinkin of pairing it with a 8800gts and just being happy with one video card.  In all honesty I was pretty happy with my game play when I had just a single 3870.



Yeah, the 780i is not as great of an overclocker as the x38 but it does quite well and SLI is the reason I bought it. I like all of the current high end hardware weather its made by Intel, Nvidia, AMD or whoever. It just depends on your liking and budget. Right now I went with the Nvidia setup. Next time it may be Intel with Crossfire. I like the look of things to come.


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## asb2106 (Feb 7, 2008)

bud951 said:


> Yeah, the 780i is not as great of an overclocker as the x38 but it does quite well and SLI is the reason I bought it. I like all of the current high end hardware weather its made by Intel, Nvidia, AMD or whoever. It just depends on your liking and budget. Right now I went with the Nvidia setup. Next time it may be Intel with Crossfire. I like the look of things to come.



Im more of a CPU junkie than graphics, I like to push procs as high as I can.  When i get my new stuff Im gonna try to make it a silent case also, Im gonna put TEC on the proc and water the graphics and use all 120mm fans on a fan controller.  Hopefully the loop will be cool enough with my 2 radz.  I never used to mind the noise but having my computer off the last few days(I decided I wont turn it back on till I get my new Graphics) I have realized how nice and quiet it is!  Im thinking I can keep the GPU under 50@load and the proc more than cool enough with the TEC.

I think I have decided on this, 
x48 rampage formula(please hurry up and come out so I can do this already!!!!)
8800gts g92 - dont know which brand - any ideas?  Im thinkin EVGA
Gigabyte 3dmars case.(goes well with my water setup!)
Custom TEC cooler - buying the TEC, the copper plate, and using my swiftech apachee gt to cool it.


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## wolf (Feb 7, 2008)

wether or not the 8800U costs $6xx and the X2 @ $4xx, the fact remains that the G80 has been out almost a year and a half, which means, that nobody will buy one now over a G92 or X2, but if theyve already got one, then whats the point in upgrading at all?

not to mention i think the 384 bit 768 megs of ram will keep the G80 chopping for a while. whereas even with dual gpu the X2 only has 2x512 and 2x256 bit, so each gpu can still only adress that much at once.

i believe benching an 8800U against an X2 in 1-2 years will show whom is meatyer, although on that note, then X2 might come ahead with its 640 combined shaders...only time will tell.

in any case people, like ive said before, both companies rock hardcore, and even if your a fanboy either way, you couldnt be if it werent for the other company exisitng, so take the good with the bad, and dont just bag the company you dont like, jsut because you dont like them, have a reason!


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## asb2106 (Feb 7, 2008)

wolf said:


> wether or not the 8800U costs $6xx and the X2 @ $4xx, the fact remains that the G80 has been out almost a year and a half, which means, that nobody will buy one now over a G92 or X2, but if theyve already got one, then whats the point in upgrading at all?
> 
> not to mention i think the 384 bit 768 megs of ram will keep the G80 chopping for a while. whereas even with dual gpu the X2 only has 2x512 and 2x256 bit, so each gpu can still only adress that much at once.
> 
> ...



this forum hasnt been about fanboi's or bashing the other, its simply to help me figure out what I should go with.  I love the competition, its what makes my prices less and my parts faster!  Nvidia has held the crown for quite some time, and I dont believe that the x2 is "faster" but I know it can hold its own.  When you talk price, hey, cant go wrong with a x2.  And if money is no object, then go ultra.  

But money is an object for me, and thats why Im thinking I can take a single g92 GTS and be happy, I like to OC and Im sure I can get some damn good results from a GTS.  So Im 90% set on a GTS.  It will be my first Nvidia card since my SLI 7800GTX rig.  That was fun but it wasnt really that great for what I paid.  Jeez, the g92 GTS is twice as fast as the 2 7800's.

I love the competetion.  There's no problem with liking a brand though, its no different than a ford guy and a chevy guy arguing.  Thats what keeps the companies supplyin their customers with what they want.  This will go on forever and complaining about it just adds fuel to the fire


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## wolf (Feb 7, 2008)

as long as its all friendly banter, when people get their knickers in such a twist about who's better, then its just getting silly.

i think youll be happy with a G92GTS, with the fan on 100% you could get 800 core/2000 shaders outta that baby and really watch her fly.

and dont get me wrong, competition is great, keeps the prices right, which is why at the moment i cannot slag any company, becuase (bar the G80 if you can still get it) anything you can buy should be priced to how it performs, and in the end, what more can you ask for? no matter what you pay, you get what you pay for.

wolf.


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## asb2106 (Feb 7, 2008)

wolf said:


> as long as its all friendly banter, when people get their knickers in such a twist about who's better, then its just getting silly.
> 
> i think youll be happy with a G92GTS, with the fan on 100% you could get 800 core/2000 shaders outta that baby and really watch her fly.
> 
> ...



always water cooled, I hate seeing how hot GPU's get!  I hate temps above 50 so it drives me to WC everything!


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## wolf (Feb 7, 2008)

1337 dude, should get ripping speeds out of it, hey dya mind sending the stock GTS cooler to australia? from what i hear itll fit a GT


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## asb2106 (Feb 8, 2008)

wolf said:


> 1337 dude, should get ripping speeds out of it, hey dya mind sending the stock GTS cooler to australia? from what i hear itll fit a GT



not at all, Ill be getting my stuff in the next few weeks, waiting on the tax returns.

Heard any good recomendations on a good water block for the g92?


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## wolf (Feb 8, 2008)

nah man ive never water cooled so iunno about that stuff really, but if your seriously up for sending the stocko cooler to aus ill be happy to organize that wit ya.

good to see your going with the G92GTS mang, the only faults i could point out with the G92's atm is the somewhat narrow memory bus (which doesn't really seem to hinder performance) and the fact it only has 16 ROPS, but if you get the core to around 800MHZ it should have as much AA grunt as a G80GTX/U anyway.

i mean i have a GT at 720 core and i can run 8-16x CSAA or MSAA no problems in over 90% of games i play. plays damn nice v-synced to 75hz too.


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## asb2106 (Feb 8, 2008)

wolf said:


> nah man ive never water cooled so iunno about that stuff really, but if your seriously up for sending the stocko cooler to aus ill be happy to organize that wit ya.
> 
> good to see your going with the G92GTS mang, the only faults i could point out with the G92's atm is the somewhat narrow memory bus (which doesn't really seem to hinder performance) and the fact it only has 16 ROPS, but if you get the core to around 800MHZ it should have as much AA grunt as a G80GTX/U anyway.
> 
> i mean i have a GT at 720 core and i can run 8-16x CSAA or MSAA no problems in over 90% of games i play. plays damn nice v-synced to 75hz too.



very nice, I have put together my parts, and Im going with the same company VGA block as the 3870 block I have, which by the way I will be selling that.  So when I get the parts this month I will PM you.  I have no prob sending it out


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## asb2106 (Feb 8, 2008)

ohh and I looked into it, the cooler should fit perfectly fine on the GT, its the same mounting when it comes to the water block so I dont see why not.


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## wolf (Feb 8, 2008)

oh thats sweet man, cheers aye. right now at 100% fan it stays under 65 degrees, but its noisy, so this one would do better and be able to run at ~80% i guess.

and itll look like a GTS  which is cool because with my bios its as good as on par with a G92GTS, i can even make the bios post for the card say its a GTS, but i think GPU-Z wouldnt be fooled, but still, the illusion will be complete!


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## asb2106 (Feb 8, 2008)

hell your probably running faster than a GTS would at stock anyways!  

Now its just a waiting game for the tax return.  

So how does this GTS look?  

And will my tru-power 550 hold up with this card?  I dont see why not??


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## asb2106 (Feb 8, 2008)

does anyone know if certain brands OC better than others, and if so, could someone recommend one???


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## wolf (Feb 8, 2008)

looks like a beast 
id say for 1 card 550w should be plenty unless you have HEAPS of fans and drives


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## asb2106 (Feb 8, 2008)

wolf said:


> looks like a beast
> id say for 1 card 550w should be plenty unless you have HEAPS of fans and drives



I do, but the PS handled the system fine with a 3870.  

I have 9 fans, 4 internal HDs and 3 external(so no worry on those 3)

OOH and a water pump!


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## wolf (Feb 8, 2008)

in terms of wattage i think the G92GTS only eats about 30-40w more at full load, so you should be fine.

i remember back in the day i rushed out and spent 850AUD on a BFG 6800 Ultra OC AGP, and that had a minimum psu requirement of 480w, and i was actually using an antec trupower 550w at the time, and never had a problem, i dare say at 65nm compared to 130, the power draw will be less, not to mention i thinnk the G92GTS runs at ~1.2v and the NV40Ultra is 1.4v.


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## ChillyMyst (Feb 8, 2008)

wolf said:


> in terms of wattage i think the G92GTS only eats about 30-40w more at full load, so you should be fine.
> 
> i remember back in the day i rushed out and spent 850AUD on a BFG 6800 Ultra OC AGP, and that had a minimum psu requirement of 480w, and i was actually using an antec trupower 550w at the time, and never had a problem, i dare say at 65nm compared to 130, the power draw will be less, not to mention i thinnk the G92GTS runs at ~1.2v and the NV40Ultra is 1.4v.



draw will be more, due to more complex chips these days, the more transistors you got the more power it eats.

and im runnin an 8800gt on a 400watt FSP psu

4000+@2.85
4gb axeram@9**mhz
8800gt 512mb@720/1775/2100
4hhd's
2 burners 8 fans

no problem, its the quiliy and amps of the psu that you need to worrie about most not the watts, i could run this off a 380watt unit fine, probbly a 350watt FPS/epower unit would do it even!!!


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## asb2106 (Feb 8, 2008)

yah I think i will be more than fine.  My PS is 2 rail 18amp.  And Ive always been one to say that watts mean nothing.  They really have no true bearing on how well its gonna do.  But it does give a general example of the power of the unit.  

I like my Antec PS and would like to keep it as long as possible but when I upgrade video further or when my PS dies Im gonna go with a PC power cooling 750.  

I thought that systems would be using the multi-rail system by now but thats not really the case.  I like the single rail and the stability it delivers.


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## wolf (Feb 9, 2008)

i got a cooler master extreme power 650 watt recently and it was cheap cos its not modular, and i think its got either 2 or 3 12 volt rails, never had a hitch from that yet, and it always blows cool air out the back 

still got the antec 550 tho, what a beast i got it in 2004, on the side it says that +12v is rated to 30 amps max, with a combined load power draw of 530watts, which should be plenty.


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## BigD6997 (Feb 9, 2008)

i just got my 780i, and i think im going to pick up two 8800gt's 

or a 8800gts idk yet

8800gt = best price performance atm imo


----------



## Mussels (Feb 9, 2008)

BigD6997 said:


> i just got my 780i, and i think im going to pick up two 8800gt's
> 
> or a 8800gts idk yet
> 
> 8800gt = best price performance atm imo



i'd say 2x GT and (bios) volt mod them. They really do come close to a GTS, for about $100 each less.


----------



## candle_86 (Feb 9, 2008)

I have to say it so i will, stop this madness neither side will win.


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## erocker (Feb 9, 2008)

Since you have the 780 board, you can get 8800gt's for like $229 at newegg right now!  That is a total deal.


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## wolf (Feb 9, 2008)

yeah its defiantly the GT for the price/performance ratio, and like mussels says, with some bios and maybe volt modding, a GT can par a stock GTS.


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## asb2106 (Feb 9, 2008)

candle_86 said:


> I have to say it so i will, stop this madness neither side will win.



dude what are you talking about, have you even read any of the posts in here it has nothing to do with that.  Please read before you post


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## BigD6997 (Feb 9, 2008)

wolf said:


> yeah its defiantly the GT for the price/performance ratio, and like mussels says, with some bios and maybe volt modding, a GT can par a stock GTS.



true, but, the price difference between the two is closing in,

229-250 for a gtbut you can pick a gts up for 289. then sli a little later when the drop one more step or have a good MIR


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## asb2106 (Feb 9, 2008)

BigD6997 said:


> true, but, the price difference between the two is closing in,
> 
> 229-250 for a gtbut you can pick a gts up for under 289.



yup thats why im going GTS

Im gonna try to OC as far as I can and maybe do a volt mod later


----------



## BigD6997 (Feb 9, 2008)

asb2106 said:


> yup thats why im going GTS
> 
> Im gonna try to OC as far as I can and maybe do a volt mod later



thats what i was leaning towards


----------



## wolf (Feb 10, 2008)

well on the day i got my GT i walked in wanting a new GTS but they were out of stock and i am totally impatient, not that i am at all unhappy with the GT


----------



## bud951 (Feb 11, 2008)

Mussels said:


> i'd say 2x GT and (bios) volt mod them. They really do come close to a GTS, for about $100 each less.



Mussels, how do you voltage mod the 8800GT's? Can you point me to the instructions? Thanks.


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## Mussels (Feb 11, 2008)

bud951 said:


> Mussels, how do you voltage mod the 8800GT's? Can you point me to the instructions? Thanks.



you dump the bios with ATI tool, modify with rabit and there is a setting you can change to increase the voltage from 1.05 to 1.10 - gives people about another 50Mhz from the core at no real risk.


----------



## ChillyMyst (Feb 11, 2008)

um rabit is for radeon cards, think u mean nibtor dont you?


----------



## Mussels (Feb 11, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> um rabit is for radeon cards, think u mean nibtor dont you?



i probably did mean nibitor 

I got the details in a PM from Tatty_one - anyone who wants good instructions, PM him.


----------



## ChillyMyst (Feb 11, 2008)

or check the forums at the site that hosts/makes nibtor thats what i did!!!

itsnot hard, really its pretty much cake


----------



## Mussels (Feb 11, 2008)

ChillyMyst said:


> or check the forums at the site that hosts/makes nibtor thats what i did!!!
> 
> itsnot hard, really its pretty much cake



lies. there is no cake.


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## asb2106 (Feb 11, 2008)

Mussels said:


> lies. there is no cake.



i want cake!


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## Mussels (Feb 11, 2008)

asb2106 said:


> i want cake!



Cats ate it already.


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## bud951 (Feb 11, 2008)

Mussels said:


> Cats ate it already.



I am a cat lover! Please tell me you arent hurting them are you?


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## Mussels (Feb 11, 2008)

just feeding them cake... except the orange one. he was being greedy.


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## Graogrim (Feb 11, 2008)

It can in fact be literally said that in the first set of pics, the cake is a lie.


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## bud951 (Feb 11, 2008)

Mussels said:


> just feeding them cake... except the orange one. he was being greedy.



Are they your cats? They are adorable. I dont mean to get off topic here but I just put a couple of rescued kittens up for adoption and they were taken within two weeks. My mom took in a cat from the Katrina disaster in New Orleans and is doing well. Here are some really great sites if anyone wants to help out animals. I am not a peta freak by the way just someone who loves animals.

http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer


http://www.wspa-usa.org/


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## ChillyMyst (Feb 11, 2008)

bud951 said:


> Are they your cats? They are adorable. I dont mean to get off topic here but I just put a couple of rescued kittens up for adoption and they were taken within two weeks. My mom took in a cat from the Katrina disaster in New Orleans and is doing well. Here are some really great sites if anyone wants to help out animals. I am not a peta freak by the way just someone who loves animals.
> 
> http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer
> 
> ...



http://www.corg.org/main.htm


yes im a member!!!!

the 10 commands ments of being a gerblist 



> 1.Thou shall have no fuzzy creatures before me.
> 2.Thou shall listen to "The Chipmunk Song" until the chinchillas come home.
> 3.Thou shall stick thy fingers in thy ears, and jump up and down while singing my praises.
> *4.Thou shall shelter at least one fuzzy creature in thy home.
> ...


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## bud951 (Feb 11, 2008)

How bout jammin one up your ass?


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## Tatty_One (Feb 11, 2008)

Being an owner of both the 8800GT (x2) and the GTS, I can honestly say that if you overclock, there actually is a fair margin of performance seperating the 2, synthetically I would guess around 1000+ points at least.

There is less advantage in modern "intensive" games such as Crysis, Bioshock or Supreme Commander in my experience because once you start adding the detail levels especially above 1280 x 1024 resolutions it is actually less about the Shader processors (where the GTS obviously has an advantage), but more about the ROP's.....and both cards have 16 (4 wide x4), so in actual gameplay you may only see 2-5fps difference in SOME games.

I think I am going to get a 780i board and use my 2 Palit 8800GT's in SLi to test them, if I like what I see there then I will sell my 8800GTS which should pay for the board.

Now, if the OP has money to burn, I would wait until mid March and get the 9800 GX2 or whatever it really will be called, this is effectively two 8800GTS G92 GPU's and it really will fly......IMO and not a fanboi comment but it should blow away the 3870x2 significantly but that is just me speculating, I only say that because if one G92 8800GTS beats the 3870x2 in a couple of benches.......whats two gonna do!


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## asb2106 (Feb 11, 2008)

Tatty_One said:


> Being an owner of both the 8800GT (x2) and the GTS, I can honestly say that if you overclock, there actually is a fair margin of performance seperating the 2, synthetically I would guess around 1000+ points at least.
> 
> There is less advantage in modern "intensive" games such as Crysis, Bioshock or Supreme Commander in my experience because once you start adding the detail levels especially above 1280 x 1024 resolutions it is actually less about the Shader processors (where the GTS obviously has an advantage), but more about the ROP's.....and both cards have 16 (4 wide x4), so in actual gameplay you may only see 2-5fps difference in SOME games.
> 
> ...



 very true, and I do agree,

the x2 is doing good, but nowhere near where I thought it was gonna perform, and yes it does get beat by the GTS in some games(thats why Im thinkin of hoppin the fence)

So that wouldnt be a terrible idea, but the plan with this upgrade cycle now was to get a mid range quality part right now, and wait for the next gen to hit market, and for the drivers to mature, and then make my desicion, either the new 9000 series or the r700's from ATI.

And honestly, a single GTS would probably be more than enough for me, I play games, but only maybe 5 or 6 hours a week, at max.  And I use 1920x1200, but i normally play at 1440x900.  And I really like my games to look good, but it doesnt bother me to play around 25 to 30 FPS.  Thats fine by me, and my 3870 was able to fill that need.  So with a gts I think I could get even more power than my 3870, and it will hold me off till maybe june or july.  Then go with something more powerful.

I switch cards alot because I can, I have alot of friends who are always one or two steps behind the market, and they are happy to buy my parts that are just alittle old.  I like to stay on top of the market just to impress customers, I had sold many SLI and crossfire systems when I had my 7800GTX SLI machine and my 1950pro Crossfire machine.  Neither of them performed even close to a 3870 but people loved the idea of two cards and a window to show it off, so I sold them.  Thats why Im thinkin now going with a x48 board, a GTS g92, and hoping when the new r700's come out that they are just awesome!  At that point I will xfire 2 of them and hang on to them for a year or so.  

I know the logic behind it sounds weird but it has driven my business to make alot more money(more than enough to cover the cards) and it impresses my customers.  Most of the time it ends up being, well Ill just get one for now and add another later(they never do), but that atleast gives them confidence in me, that I know what I am doing.


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## ChillyMyst (Feb 11, 2008)

bud951 said:


> How bout jammin one up your ass?



lol, thats not allowed by chruch rule!!!

read that page its funny, and injoyable, then check out the internet baptisim


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