# Beware: torrent sites are being watched



## 1nf3rn0x (Sep 10, 2012)

Score one for highbrow tastes: If you've ever downloaded a popular movie, TV show or music album from a site like Pirate Bay, there's a strong chance your IP address is sitting on a database somewhere.

So what exactly did their research reveal? They were able to identify 1139 IP addresses linked up to the BitTorrent network that they believe were monitoring users around the world. Those IP addresses belong to copyright enforcement organisations, security companies and government research labs, according to the report.

Furthermore, it seems that copyright enforcers are targeting "only the most popular content," and anyone sharing a popular film or music file is likely to have their activity logged on the network within three hours. You don't have to be a mass downloader, either. According to the research, those who download a single film will be logged just as those who download 10 are.

But there is some good news for any of you scofflaws who have downloaded popular content. The scientists say that while the monitoring technology can detect that you are connected to a torrent client, they can't necessarily prove you downloaded anything. This means that the data gathered through monitoring "falls short of providing conclusive evidence of copyright infringement" — and might not stand up in a court.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/tec...ing-watched-20120907-25iuo.html#ixzz26380WF7T

Stay safe guys


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## de.das.dude (Sep 10, 2012)

my isp has its own peering network and torrent site


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## mtosev (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm not surprised at all by this


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## Drone (Sep 10, 2012)

Like there were any real torrent sites. Demonoid, TorrentBox and BTJunkie are dead, TPB hosts only magnet links.


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## W1zzard (Sep 10, 2012)

technically not the torrent sites are watched but the bt transfers. those companies run the torrent using a client that logs ip addresses of uploaders that show up as peers/dht/uploaders.

i seriously doubt there is enough evidence unless you actually upload a significant piece of the original data to that company.


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## _JP_ (Sep 10, 2012)

Don't they know magnet links are all the rage now?


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## W1zzard (Sep 10, 2012)

_JP_ said:


> Don't they know magnet links are all the rage now?



magnet just eliminates downloading the torrent file directly. once the magnet magic has done its job you will have a torrent file in your client


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## caleb (Sep 10, 2012)

Lucky us the whole ACTA crap didn't pass around here. So unless you're a total moron and give away information about yourself then your ISP wont sell you for nothing (with no court order etc.)


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## _JP_ (Sep 10, 2012)

W1zzard said:


> magnet just eliminates downloading the torrent file directly. once the magnet magic has done its job you will have a torrent file in your client


Shh. Don't let them know that.


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## Laurijan (Sep 10, 2012)

This is why I use Relakks (swedish ip) a 5€ per month encypted VPN tunnel service. my speed suffers - get 10M compared to 16M but I can live with it.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm surprised any of you are surprised. Did you honestly think you had privacy online?

This isn't a dig at pirates or anything. Just saying in general you would have to be an idiot to think you are "protected" from anything online. ISP's could give a crap less about your privacy and if the powers that be want to find you they will.


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## Guitar (Sep 10, 2012)

I started using invite only sites a while ago.


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## STCNE (Sep 10, 2012)

All of the big piracy sites are/were owned by RIAA or RIAA owned corporations. Plus there is the whole matter that the big news sites were really pushing for people to 'try out' all the piracy software 5-10 years back. Don't believe me, do some research yourself. It's not exactly hidden. Look up Mike Mozart on youtube, he kind of shows the extremes of what this could mean for us. He goes a bit overboard but he has the proof. It's jail-baiting pretty much, that's why I stay away from piracy.

All they'd need to do to start arresting people is to pass a bill like CIPSA which they are pushing for now. The big US ISPs are big shareholders in RIAA owned buisnesses but they don't have the legal authority to send the proof(their records) with current laws.


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## HossHuge (Sep 10, 2012)

Around here everybody has wifi so say for example your wifi was being hacked or you left your wifi open to everyone.

What would happen in those cases? 
Can they force you to use an encryption?  
Would they still know who is downloading?


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## GSquadron (Sep 10, 2012)

wow i didnt know this!
a friend of mine already has 10 paypal accounts taking dollars and has everything from
stupid people, just by uploading torrents which cannot be detected by any antiviruses


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## newconroer (Sep 10, 2012)

People who download The Avengers for free = small fry.
Corporations and 'scenes' like Rapidshare/Pirate Bay who knowingly harbor, distribute and advocate infringement = scum.

Governments need to prioritize their targets.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 10, 2012)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> wow i didnt know this!
> a friend of mine already has 10 paypal accounts taking dollars and has everything from
> stupid people, just by uploading torrents which cannot be detected by any antiviruses



I didn't understand a damn thing you just said.


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## STCNE (Sep 10, 2012)

newconroer said:


> People who download The Avengers for free = small fry.
> Corporations and 'scenes' like Rapidshare/Pirate Bay who knowingly harbor, distribute and advocate infringement = scum.
> 
> Governments need to prioritize their targets.



They go for the easier targets, taking on the pirate bay or even megaupload is expensive and word spreads fast with big takedown attempts like that. Going after casual downloaders is easy as they can usually reach a settlement fast. And of course the way torrent software works, when you initiate a download it automatically makes you an uploader. That's how they are able to hit people for so much money. As you are downloading say a 1GB movie, the parts you have already downloaded will be 'seeded' off your connection. Assuming it's a heavily pirated movie you could be 'helping' hundreds if not thousands of other people download it within minutes. Technically you didn't upload it, but the law is flexible enough for those with the good lawyers.


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## ShiBDiB (Sep 10, 2012)

Guitarrassdeamor said:


> I started using invite only sites a while ago.



Lol those are a joke, full of elitist assholes and are usually the most common sites to capitulate to copyright pressure




TheMailMan78 said:


> I didn't understand a damn thing you just said.



Sounds like he just admitted his friend is knowingly stealing from other people using malware... Doesnt that make him guilty by association?


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## MatTheCat (Sep 10, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I didn't understand a damn thing you just said.



He is proudly announcing that his friend (or indeed he himself), is sitting withdrawing money out of peoples paypal accounts after they had downloaded torrent file with an undetected virus in.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 10, 2012)

MatTheCat said:


> He is proudly announcing that his friend (or indeed he himself), is sitting withdrawing money out of peoples paypal accounts after they had downloaded torrent file with an undetected virus in.



Ah ok.


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## Solaris17 (Sep 10, 2012)

MatTheCat said:


> He is proudly announcing that his friend (or indeed he himself), is sitting withdrawing money out of peoples paypal accounts after they had downloaded torrent file with an undetected virus in.



those are the real scumbags i hope he gets arrested.


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## GSquadron (Sep 10, 2012)

There is no cybercrime law on my country so he is free for now 
Anyway he was revealed several times by asian banks with name and real life address

I know you can hate him, but people pls! Bittorrent is full of these type of guys!
They should arrest bitorrent and thepiratebay first than my friend


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## Laurijan (Sep 10, 2012)

Solaris17 said:


> those are the real scumbags i hope he gets arrested.



Me too


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## ShiBDiB (Sep 10, 2012)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> There is no cybercrime law on my country so he is free for now
> Anyway he was revealed several times by asian banks with name and real life address



As far as im aware, as soon as he steals from someone in a country with laws he can be charged.


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## GSquadron (Sep 10, 2012)

I come from a country where cybercrime never existed, so it is quite normal i find this humorous.
How comes you say such words, when piratebay is out there and people loose info from downloading something.
It looks completely silly. This is the humorous thing.
And you just started, without even knowing how many people are out there doing these things.
Usually those who "act" as they hate these things, have a very high chance they do these things themselfs.


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## ShiBDiB (Sep 10, 2012)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> I come from a country where cybercrime never existed, so it is quite normal i find this humorous.
> How comes you say such words, when piratebay is out there and people loose info from downloading something.
> It looks completely silly. This is the humorous thing.
> And you just started, without even knowing how many people are out there doing these things.
> Usually those who "act" as they hate these things, have a very high chance they do these things themselfs.



Because you know someone personally who could be stealing someones only source of income. This is what makes you the douche, thats like watching someone rob an old lady and giving them a high five as they run away.

And I just notice you accused me of doing this, your logic false.


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## GSquadron (Sep 10, 2012)

ok, what if you find your family rob a penny in a bank?
And i said you for all who replied to the post, not you personally.

And watching your signature, i understand what you mean....


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## Solaris17 (Sep 10, 2012)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> I come from a country where cybercrime never existed, so it is quite normal i find this humorous.
> How comes you say such words, when piratebay is out there and people loose info from downloading something.
> It looks completely silly. This is the humorous thing.
> And you just started, without even knowing how many people are out there doing these things.
> Usually those who "act" as they hate these things, have a very high chance they do these things themselfs.



So basically your script kiddie friend steals money/info from people and you and him get together and laugh about because your country doesnt have any cyber crime laws because your so back woods your government is still run by people in teepees?





One day I hope they have an aiding and abetting law in your country. I'll come visit bring you some cookies...eat them in front of you.


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## Guitar (Sep 10, 2012)

ShiBDiB said:


> Lol those are a joke, full of elitist assholes and are usually the most common sites to capitulate to copyright pressure



You probably need to join some different sites. There are only 1 or 2 that I joined and had a problem with "elitist assholes", one specifically I know of that I am still a member of. That, and only maybe 2 of the sites I am/have been on have fallen to "copyright" pressure, and I might just have lost the site information for one of them.


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## Solaris17 (Sep 10, 2012)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> I think this thread is becoming more personal



you did that. ill gladly go back on topic but some personal advice id refran from admitting to a tech community save torrent sites that you and your little criminal friend get a good laugh out of jerking people around. the majority of other countries tend to frown on shit like that.


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## MT Alex (Sep 10, 2012)

Right on, Sol


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## erocker (Sep 10, 2012)

No, you'll get back on topic now.

Thread cleaned.

Violators infracted.

Name-calling... really people?

Stay on topic, consider this a warning for the rest of you who didn't earn some points.


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## OneMoar (Sep 10, 2012)

OOO a piracy thread 
/me get some popcorn ...
seriously kids grow up


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## Octopuss (Sep 11, 2012)

I can smell a high tide of conspiracy theories right here.
That being said, internets are everything but safe, that's for sure, and there are ways of checking on stuff 99% of people never heard of (at the least, not everyone is really superiour network specialist).
But I don't believe half of the claims that always arise in threads similar to this. I always remember those hoax emails about new deadly virus that would spin your hard drive to insane rotation speeds and completely destroy all data, if you click on an email sent by donkeydick1337 blabla. Some common sense and basic knowledge about what I am doing helps a lot.


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## caleb (Sep 11, 2012)

The scary thing is that some companies specialized in lurking over p2p in order to link personal data with stuff you download - not very hard with facebook and not encrypted transfers from public trackers eh ?
When they have both they contact copyright owner with the information afterwards they both contact you with proposal : money or lawsuit. Sure the process in court might go different ways but ask yourself would you rather go there or just pay them money ?


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## Jetster (Sep 11, 2012)

The sad thing is if you buy or rent a movie you have to watch 10 min of crap before you can even watch the movie so your screwed ether way


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## 3870x2 (Sep 11, 2012)

ShiBDiB said:


> As far as im aware, as soon as he steals from someone in a country with laws he can be charged.



Only when you steal from the US.


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## r9 (Sep 11, 2012)

Pirating it`s not same as stealing. Pirating it is not correct either. By definition when you steal some thing from some one he should lose that thing. Companies don`t lose anything. They don`t want to legalize all copies they just want to make more billions. 

They calculate that X millions downloads X price of the game = THE LOSS

It reality if there weren`t torrents doesn`t mean that those millions of people would buy the game.

Another argument torrent could increase sales for companies. One part of the people that downloaded from torrent and play the campaign and get addicted and go and buy the game to play it multiplayer.

There are multiple games that sell for couple dollars and make millions and they are not near as good as CoD for example. It is possible that if they sold CoD for 5$ could end up making even more money. Similar to what apple did with music. They lower the price of the music and ended up making more money for them and for the owners.

If they really wanted to stop pirating why not just sell the game with usb security token. If it is safe for banking I don`t see why wont be good for Games.


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## Guitar (Sep 11, 2012)

That, and the fact that games are so expensive nowadays (not that they weren't in the past, but..) "in today's economy" that shelling out $60 for a supposed AAA title that sucks ass is stupid. And with PC, you're stuck with it - can't sell it or trade it in a lot of the times. Lots of companies don't provide demos anymore either. Mass Effect is one game I remember trying and it was so good I went and bought it right after. I haven't played it at all really, but I bought it.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 11, 2012)

"Waaa, waaaa, waaaaaa, games are so expensive" Excuses for stealing are funny.


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## D007 (Sep 11, 2012)

Government steals from me every day.. They call it taxes but our kids aren't getting any new books, our roads are in disrepair and people can't afford medical insurance.. They can sue me.. If they are reading this, they should really take a moment and reflect on this: 
t^^t

PS: If the movie is worth it, I buy it on Amazon in HD anyway.. I don't go to the movies. But I don't feel like waiting months for a dvd release.. Maybe they should stop sucking the cak of the movie theaters and start releasing movies to the public for sale sooner..

Also, games are dumb expensive now.. If you looked at EA's annual income, you'd know that..
Have I ever stolen a game? No.. But I'm dam sure pissed at how fast they jump the prices to 60 dollars, add bullshit dlc and overcharge for it.. they are making a killing on that kind of crap but instead of passing on savings they just gouge.. I have no sympathy.. 
They can cry about it if they want, when the ceo drives by me in his lamborghini..


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## LGV (Sep 11, 2012)

Octopuss said:


> hoax emails about new deadly virus that would spin your hard drive to insane rotation speeds and completely destroy all data



Dont know about thet, but I got a DVD disc, one game on it, you play the game, when its end, its destroy your hdd. ( no spin up tho ) Did it with 4 hdd in the past. 
I think it is virus on it, not sure. But if it is, then possible to kill hdd with virus over email too. 
( The data was unrecoverable from all hdd, did try several virus scan, not find any )


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## D007 (Sep 11, 2012)

LGV said:


> Dont know about thet, but I got a DVD disc, one game on it, you play the game, when its end, its destroy your hdd. ( no spin up tho ) Did it with 4 hdd in the past.
> I think it is virus on it, not sure. But if it is, then possible to kill hdd with virus over email too.
> ( The data was unrecoverable from all hdd, did try several virus scan, not find any )



Oooh, this is like the ring.. Only for PC's..


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 11, 2012)

D007 said:


> Government steals from me every day.. They call it taxes but our kids aren't getting any new books, our roads are in disrepair and people can't afford medical insurance.. They can sue me.. If they are reading this, they should really take a moment and reflect on this:
> t^^t
> 
> PS: If the movie is worth it, I buy it on Amazon in HD anyway.. I don't go to the movies. But I don't feel like waiting months for a dvd release.. Maybe they should stop sucking the cak of the movie theaters and start releasing movies to the public for sale sooner..
> ...



How dare they make money!


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## Drone (Sep 11, 2012)

r9 said:


> Pirating it`s not same as stealing. They calculate that X millions downloads X price of the game = THE LOSS


There are pirates who sell pirated content, in this case it's definitely can be called stealing. 



> It reality if there weren`t torrents doesn`t mean that those millions of people would buy the game.


Yes un-bought content and pirated content is actually the same thing. I'm sure those people ain't gonna pay anyway. But I think that pirates don't do it just because they don't want to pay, it's rather their lifestyle.

To me it doesn't make much sense. If I like some artists I'll support them, I'll buy their stuff and will go to see their gig. If I don't like them I won't need their shit even for free.


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## Guitar (Sep 11, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> "Waaa, waaaa, waaaaaa, games are so expensive" Excuses for stealing are funny.



I own 100+ games on Steam and 30+ games (most bought new) for my PS3 and multiples for other consoles and a lot more in the past. Money is not an issue, believe me. What is an issue is when you release a shitty game and I have no recourse after wasting $60 on it.


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## Frick (Sep 11, 2012)

D007 said:


> Government steals from me every day.. They call it taxes but our kids aren't getting any new books, our roads are in disrepair and people can't afford medical insurance.. They can sue me.. If they are reading this, they should really take a moment and reflect on this:
> t^^t
> 
> PS: If the movie is worth it, I buy it on Amazon in HD anyway.. I don't go to the movies. But I don't feel like waiting months for a dvd release.. Maybe they should stop sucking the cak of the movie theaters and start releasing movies to the public for sale sooner..
> ...



Me I like taxes, but they work pretty good where I live, I can understand people get pissed when they don't work well.

Time between theater and DVD/BR I don't mind. It feels proper somehow, dunno why really.

And the last thing isn't true, at least not here. A lot of big titles (Deus Ex HR for instance) retail at just above €30 at launch, and physical releases are always a lot cheaper than digital ones. They drop pretty quick too. BF3 Premium is €61 (which sounds a lot, but the € is weak now and the SEK is pretty strong, it used to be €1 = 10SEK), the price games used to come out at. The regular version is €30. Heck I bought Simcopter for BF3 Premium kind of money when it came out.


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## Widjaja (Sep 11, 2012)

Jetster said:


> The sad thing is if you buy or rent a movie you have to watch 10 min of crap before you can even watch the movie so your screwed ether way



My way around this is by ripping the movies I rent.
Reasons:-
I can watch it later without worrying about overdues
Most of the time I watch the movie once
I don't give out the movies I rip to people
I get kicks out of seeing how fast my PC can encode
I don't particularly enjoy downloading movies from torrents due to not knowing what the actual quality will be or if it will be a cam rip etc etc.
Only things I do DL are television programs which are not available in my country and not available for download without torrenting.

Games I do not pirate.
I enjoy waiting for the steam sales and I like seeing the list of games in my library accumulate.


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## erocker (Sep 11, 2012)

Guitarrassdeamor said:


> I own 100+ games on Steam and 30+ games (most bought new) for my PS3 and multiples for other consoles and a lot more in the past. Money is not an issue, believe me. What is an issue is when you release a shitty game and I have no recourse after wasting $60 on it.



Well, if I bought a crappy car and wasted my money on it, I don't think I would go to the car lot and take another car.

This is the internet though, I freely take what I want and make no excuses for it.


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## happy (Sep 11, 2012)

Here's an interesting fact.  I don't really know if this pertains to this thread.  But I thought I would throw it out here. Obama doesn't support SOPA or PIPA.  So doesn't that mean these so called spies that take down regular folks don't really have much power?


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## Guitar (Sep 11, 2012)

erocker said:


> Well, if I bought a crappy car and wasted my money on it, I don't think I would go to the car lot and take another car.
> 
> This is the internet though, I freely take what I want and make no excuses for it.



That's great logic. Let's consider a car, which you can get checked out by a mechanic/friend/somebody for problems. If you know or pay someone who is savvy with cars to look it over, it saves you a major headache and money down the line. If you don't, and buy it site unseen without driving it or testing it, that is your problem.
Let's consider a videogame. You can read reviews, watch videos, and sometimes even play a demo when it releases. If you don't do any of that and buy it off of what the cover looks like, that is your problem.
However, if I buy a game that is nothing but buggy, cannot run on my computer due to a software conflict that was not mentioned somewhere, does not work with my hardware (we'll patch it down the line, 2 months later), has continuous server issues, etc. etc...that is not your problem. That is a problem on the developer's end.
What you apparently fail to understand is that nobody is walking into a store and robbing someone of a physical copy of a game. They are simply downloading a file off of the internet. That is in no way stealing, and certainly does not equal a substantial reduction in profits, because half of these people aren't going to buy the game anyways. Not only that, but after some people, like myself, get to try a game, we end up buying it regardless.
Then there comes the part that games that have things like Ubisoft always on DRM cannot be played while offline (granted I know they are working on this/not using it/removing it or something I read), so a crack is your only option to enjoy the game like you want to.

A car is physical property, an .rar of a game is not. It's pretty damn stupid to think that they are anywhere near the same thing.


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## erocker (Sep 11, 2012)

Guitarrassdeamor said:


> That's great logic. Let's consider a car, which you can get checked out by a mechanic/friend/somebody for problems. If you know or pay someone who is savvy with cars to look it over, it saves you a major headache and money down the line. If you don't, and buy it site unseen without driving it or testing it, that is your problem.
> Let's consider a videogame. You can read reviews, watch videos, and sometimes even play a demo when it releases. If you don't do any of that and buy it off of what the cover looks like, that is your problem.
> However, if I buy a game that is nothing but buggy, cannot run on my computer due to a software conflict that was not mentioned somewhere, does not work with my hardware (we'll patch it down the line, 2 months later), has continuous server issues, etc. etc...that is not your problem. That is a problem on the developer's end.
> What you apparently fail to understand is that nobody is walking into a store and robbing someone of a physical copy of a game. They are simply downloading a file off of the internet. That is in no way stealing, and certainly does not equal a substantial reduction in profits, because half of these people aren't going to buy the game anyways. Not only that, but after some people, like myself, get to try a game, we end up buying it regardless.
> ...



No, I understand perfectly. Like I said... I with a clear conscience take what I want from what the internet has to offer.

I apologize, I realize this thread has nothing to do with piracy.


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## happy (Sep 11, 2012)

Guitarrassdeamor said:


> .rar of a game is not.



Actually, it's the property of the developer or company that produced or made it.


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## UbErN00b (Sep 11, 2012)

erocker said:


> Well, if I bought a crappy car and wasted my money on it, I don't think I would go to the car lot and take another car.
> 
> This is the internet though, I freely take what I want and make no excuses for it.



I'm not taking, I'm making a clone, you still have your crappy car in the car lot. I just made a copy of it to try it out, and as I guessed, it is crappy so I delete my crappy clone of your car and don't pay you $500 for it cause you still have the original and I don't get ripped off. Thanks.

Edit: don't make shitty sub standard cars and people won't clone them without ever buying them for over inflated prices.


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## OneMoar (Sep 11, 2012)

yall do realize you are getting trolled by erocker right ?


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 11, 2012)

At least Erocker doesn't make excuses. This I can respect. He steals and cares not.

Next up the Robin Hood argument.


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## OneMoar (Sep 11, 2012)

ill throw my hat into the ring here
unfortunate for you there is more "Robbin hoods" than there is "tax collectors" guss what people the majority rules. time to  get with the program everybody pirates your self-perceived morality is not applicable on the internet also my hair is a bird


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## UbErN00b (Sep 11, 2012)

OneMoar said:


> yall do realize you are getting trolled by erocker right ?



I did see his 2nd comment but chose to ignore it. 

Wow you pretty much summed up my opinion, I didn't even realise it. 



TheMailMan78 said:


> At least Erocker doesn't make excuses. This I can respect. He steals and cares not.
> 
> Next up the Robin Hood argument.



It's not exactly the robin hood argument though people like watching movies and playing games, when they give you little over a couple hours of enjoyment a month and yet cost $20 and $60 each respectively though a lot of the times fail to deliver value for money and they become "available for free" then sadly the population is going to choose the latter option and decide what THEY WANT to pay for. It's hardly rocket scince whether it's morally wrong or not or whether you agree with it or not, the majority speaks for itself.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Sep 11, 2012)

This thread is awesome and shows what is so right about the internet and what is so wrong with controlled nations. Look at how upset all the people get that live in America or the UK yet other nations that don't care could give 2 shits about this. You all are drinking up the propaganda-cool-aid just like they want you to.

"They" will never stop this, there is no way. Even if you remove the entire internet darknets are on the rise and with all this awesome tech at our finger tips it will only increase. Wait until private sectors start launching their own satellites. What then? What happens when ThePirateBay pays china to launch their own broadcasting satellite. I actually believe this is what KimDotCom has in store.


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## UbErN00b (Sep 11, 2012)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> This thread is awesome and shows what is so right about the internet and what is so wrong with controlled nations. Look at how upset all the people get that live in America or the UK yet other nations that don't care could give 2 shits about this. You all are drinking up the propaganda-cool-aid just like they want you to.
> 
> "They" will never stop this, there is no way. Even if you remove the entire internet darknets are on the rise and with all this awesome tech at our finger tips it will only increase. Wait until private sectors start launching their own satellites. What then? What happens when ThePirateBay pays china to launch their own broadcasting satellite.



Lot of the "for" people here seem to be from the UK and US in here unless I missed something over the last 2 pages?


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## UbErN00b (Sep 11, 2012)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Just saying a lot of the most vocal (against) people are from controlled nations.



I'm from the UK, OneMoar is from the UK, erocker is from the US, mailman is from US though he is hated by his countrymen as well as other "uncontrolled nations" so his opinion isn't really gospel  

I don't think you can really classify pirates/non pirates coming from a certain demograph, that's the whole point of the debate. Some people can easily afford not to pirate and do, others can't afford to buy every game/film/ware they want but still don't agree with piracy. I still think the latter is the minority nowadays. 

Getting shit for free on the internet is normal now and that trend has only increased over the last 10 years and more so with younger generations. Games/film and media companies need a new strategy to sell to this demographic instead of trying to prosecute them as that hasn't and will never work. Change the fucking business plan and get with the program I say. If you have a suck product there's no fucking way it should sell for the same as a top class product that offers 10x better content and value for money.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 11, 2012)

OneMoar said:


> ill throw my hat into the ring here
> unfortunate for you there is more "Robbin hoods" than there is "tax collectors" guss what people the majority rules. time to  get with the program everybody pirates your self-perceived morality is not applicable on the internet also my hair is a bird



Some of us work jobs and don't live in our grandmothers attic collecting her social security money MY tax dollars pay for. We like to pay for other peoples hard work too. For example DICE make an excellent game I have over 200 hours in. Yet you would take it for free because you have a self given "right" to other peoples hard work. Get a job doing things having to do with intellectual property and then come back and tell me piracy isn't stealing.

Welcome to the real world people. If everyone pirated no one would buy. If no one buys then no one makes and you will be pirating 20 year old tech. Enjoy your wonderful future of fail.



UbErN00b said:


> I'm from the UK, OneMoar is from the UK, erocker is from the US, *mailman is from US though he is hated by his countrymen as well as other "uncontrolled nations" so his opinion isn't really gospel *
> 
> I don't think you can really classify pirates/non pirates coming from a certain demograph, that's the whole point of the debate. Some people can easily afford not to pirate and do, others can't afford to buy every game/film/ware they want but still don't agree with piracy. I still think the latter is the minority nowadays.
> 
> Getting shit for free on the internet is normal now and that trend has only increased over the last 10 years and more so with younger generations. Games/film and media companies need a new strategy to sell to this demographic instead of trying to prosecute them as that hasn't and will never work. Change the fucking business plan and get with the program I say. If you have a suck product there's no fucking way it should sell for the same as a top class product that offers 10x better content and value for money.



I'm hated? Damn thats news to me. lol

Anyway on topic......don't steal and you have nothing to worry about.


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## UbErN00b (Sep 11, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Some of us work jobs and don't live in our grandmothers attic collecting her social security money MY tax dollars pay for. We like to pay for other peoples hard work too. For example DICE make an excellent game I have over 200 hours in. Yet you would take it for free because you have a self given "right" to other peoples hard work. Get a job doing things having to do with intellectual property and then come back and tell me piracy isn't stealing.
> 
> Welcome to the real world people. If everyone pirated no one would buy. If no one buys then no one makes and you will be pirating 20 year old tech. Enjoy your wonderful future of fail.
> 
> ...



Shit guess I need to get out of grandma's attic and learn to live on my own, oh wait I do and have done since I was 15, as it happens I have just lost a well paid job and am now for the first time having to rely on the state which I have paid thousands of taxes and national insurance to for the last 15 years only to find out the state doesn't give 2 flying fucks about me because I have been working, had I always been a bum I would have got given weekely money and a home and dental care etc, as an ex worker who propped up society in taxes and national insurance I don't get any of them when I need it. 

Regardless this isn't about politics so why and try and make it about that? I pirate no more/no less now than I did when I had a job and was earning a good wage and paying taxes, what has that got to do with it? seems to me your "against piracy" argument is null hence you have to try and divert the conversation into politics and make it into a argument about people who pay taxes and people who don't, you would make a damn good politician as that's exactly how they answer any awkward questions they don't know the answer to as well lol.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 11, 2012)

UbErN00b said:


> Shit guess I need to get out of grandma's attic and learn to live on my own, oh wait I do and have done since I was 15, as it happens I have just lost a well paid job and am now for the first time having to rely on the state which I have paid thousands of taxes and national insurance to for the last 15 years only to find out the state doesn't give 2 flying fucks about me because I have been working, had I always been a bum I would have got given weekely money and a home and dental care etc, as an ex worker who propped up society in taxes and national insurance I don't get any of them when I need it.
> 
> Regardless this isn't about politics so why and try and make it about that? I pirate no more/no less now than I did when I had a job and was earning a good wage and paying taxes, what has that got to do with it? seems to me your "against piracy" argument is null hence you have to try and divert the conversation into politics and make it into a argument about people who pay taxes and people who don't, you would make a damn good politician as that's exactly how they answer any awkward questions they don't know the answer to as well lol.


 You're new here so I don't think you understand this argument has been beat to death. I don't mean like a dead horse with a stick. I mean like a zombie Apocalypse with a nuke. My comment wasn't to you anyway man. It was to OneMoar.

I work in an industry that's ALL intellectual property based. My argument isn't about politics. Its about facts. Anyway Ill let this go. Its off topic.


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## UbErN00b (Sep 11, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You're new here so I don't think you understand this argument has been beat to death. I don't mean like a dead horse with a stick. I mean like a zombie Apocalypse with a nuke. My comment wasn't to you anyway man. It was to OneMoar.
> 
> I work in an industry that's ALL intellectual property based. My argument isn't about politics. Its about facts. Anyway Ill let this go. Its off topic.



I am new here so that means I am 13 and don't really know how the interwebz works, I appreciate you looking out for me on that front bro. 

And my argument isn't for or against you either, it's to debate the issue, there will alays be for or against, but that's the joy of a good debate in my mind, what's the fun if you only hear the one side and you are right?


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 11, 2012)

UbErN00b said:


> I am new here so that means I am 13 and don't really know how the interwebz works, I appreciate you looking out for me on that front bro.
> 
> And my argument isn't for or against you either, it's to debate the issue, there will alays be for or against, but that's the joy of a good debate in my mind, what's the fun if you only hear the one side and you are right?



No your new to the forum. This forum. Here let me give you an example...

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141423&highlight=this+is+what+happens

It has nothing to do with your age or your maturity. No debate to be had. Sorry I wasn't clear. It was never intended to be an insult to ya.  Just YOU ARE NEW TO TPU.


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## STCNE (Sep 11, 2012)

The car argument doesn't work. You can test drive a car and see all that is has to offer really from the test drive. Games either don't have a demo, or in some game's cases the demo is the only worthwhile part of the game.

I don't pirate, but I get where the pirates are coming from. For me, either I dislike a company and want nothing to do with their products or I like them and want to support them. I can easily go without having something if I don't think it's worth paying for. I've been screwed over and seen people screwed over so many times by companies like EA that I really don't care what happens to them anymore. I don't exactly support piracy but it seems dumb to defend companies that act like they hate their customers.


And to address the comment on the top of the page. Obama has made it clear that he won't stop these bills from passing, he takes massive campaign donations from Hollywood where these bills started(So does Romney for that matter), plus he already has signed in a lot of similar bills. Take from that what you will, I don't want to turn this thread political but that's just what it is. The guy flew to my homestate on the taxpayer's dime to collect about 20 million worth of campaign donations from a big name director.


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