# How to properly ground your PC?



## Kistel (Mar 5, 2011)

Going to be installing a new CPU in a motherboard tonight which will require removing the motherboard. 

To ensure that I do everything right and do not destroy it like I did to my other one last night (view my other thread), I want to make sure I do everything right this time.

I know I must ground my PC - what is the best method for doing so? I plan putting my PC on a wood desk when I take it apart. I'll place the parts I remove on their anti static bags they came in.


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## F1reFly (Mar 5, 2011)

use a grounding wrist strap. their cheap. ground to the frame. i usually hold my parts by the side edges or non metal parts of it if i can. alternatively, you could insert a wire into the ground of a plugin to the frame but thats a bit overkill i would think.


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## Mussels (Mar 5, 2011)

grounding is pointless.


static electricity killing hardware is a myth made up by people who killed their systems (or just dont know how to assemble them) and blamed it on something they didnt understand, instead of admitting failure.


I've built hundreds of machines on carpet (no case - just on the carpet directly) and the only one to have a problem was because a resistor/capacitor (not sure which) on the bottom of the board got caught, and pulled off the board. (cats fault.)


short version is: static wont really do squat. dont worry about it. 
DO worry about damaging the boards physically however, be careful not to bend pins or contacts, or get debris in any slots.


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## Champ (Mar 5, 2011)

I've built and worked on multiple PCs with no grounding.  The most important grounding is when you plug it in.


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## Kistel (Mar 5, 2011)

Champ said:


> The most important grounding is when you plug it in.



Thanks for the replies. But what does this mean exactly? Just to make sure it is grounded when I power it on after working on it?


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## ASRockIQ (Mar 5, 2011)

same here the last two post. i have build many systems but not on carpet 'as Mussels said' but rather on Cardboard or a Wooden Desk or a computer desk if anything. as Champ said as well. most important is when plugging in the power cord to the PSU. ALWAYS Double Check to make sure everything is plugged in correctly and be sure NO Wires are in the way of any Fans


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## ctrain (Mar 5, 2011)

unplug psu, press power button, touch inside of case, feel good about self, remove mobo, do whatever, put back in, win.

unless you are building up a comical amount of charge somehow by rubbing your feet on carpet to the point where your hair is standing up i doubt you can ever really run into problems with static.

i've never used a wrist strap or whatever and i've built plenty with no issue. if you have a short thanks to something in the case you'll probably get the lovely result of ~* nothing *~ when you try and start up.


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## Mussels (Mar 5, 2011)

Kistel said:


> Thanks for the replies. But what does this mean exactly? Just to make sure it is grounded when I power it on after working on it?



the case gets grounded when you do plug it in (at least with 3 prong power sockets) so i dont know what he means either.


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## Champ (Mar 5, 2011)

Kistel said:


> Thanks for the replies. But what does this mean exactly? Just to make sure it is grounded when I power it on after working on it?



I was messing with you


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## AsRock (Mar 5, 2011)

Mussels said:


> grounding is pointless.
> 
> 
> static electricity killing hardware is a myth made up by people who killed their systems (or just dont know how to assemble them) and blamed it on something they didnt understand, instead of admitting failure.
> ...



funny you say tha as when my 3800 X2 setup died was the that i touched the thumb drive that was pluged into it and both no longer work lol.

touching the case is only good if the PSU is in the system and pluged in.  When in side a PC or plan to  mess in a PC i tend to find some thing that i normally get a static shock from.

Dam flash drive court me of gaurd  although should of known with the casing being metal and btw the flash drive i am talking about is the Rally 2 which i just got back from RMA.

yet another reason why i picked a msi mobo as the usb ports supposed to be protected from such thing.


Other wise i would agree with you mussels but the last experience tells me be even ore carefull. never had a issue with static ever b4 and thats over15 years of pcs and longer wither electronics.


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## Mussels (Mar 5, 2011)

that wouldnt be static, that would be a short in the flash drive damaging the PSU (and everything else on the 5v rail)


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## purefun65 (Mar 5, 2011)

Mussels said:


> that wouldnt be static, that would be a short in the flash drive damaging the PSU (and everything else on the 5v rail)



I agree with mussels.


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## AsRock (Mar 5, 2011)

Mussels said:


> that wouldnt be static, that would be a short in the flash drive damaging the PSU (and everything else on the 5v rail)



It was static i felt the discharge lol.  And the PSU is fine.


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## Mussels (Mar 5, 2011)

AsRock said:


> It was static i felt the discharge lol.  And the PSU is fine.



then it wasnt static, what you felt was the 5V line from the USB stick.


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## pantherx12 (Mar 5, 2011)

I plug rig into mains to ground it.
(power off obviously)


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## Frizz (Mar 5, 2011)

I am not fussed with static or the whole carpet myth, although what I have made a habit of when turning off my computer is including the power supply and unplugging the connection from the back whenever I decide to clean my rig or make changes.


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## sniviler (Mar 5, 2011)

wear latex gloves.


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## ShiBDiB (Mar 5, 2011)

Mussels said:


> grounding is pointless.
> 
> 
> static electricity killing hardware is a myth made up by people who killed their systems (or just dont know how to assemble them) and blamed it on something they didnt understand, instead of admitting failure.
> ...



This^^^



sniviler said:


> wear latex gloves.



lolwut


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## Frick (Mar 5, 2011)

I always have to post this when talking about these things:


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## Deleted member 74752 (Mar 5, 2011)

I once built up too much static...


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## Frick (Mar 5, 2011)

That's.. That's not real is it?


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## Bundy (Mar 5, 2011)

Adding post to agree with mussels. 

if the air is dry and you are sparking onto lots of things, just touch the bench or case regularly to be sure.


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## micropage7 (Mar 5, 2011)

ive on building rig about several years and never experienced static electricity
just make sure you power on after all these things placed, and avoid any dust and i more just make sure your finger is dry enough or you gonna have electricity shock
simple right
touch the case regularly that i do, you dont need any expensive tool to avoid that


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## Radical_Edward (Mar 5, 2011)

rickss69, that's one of the oldest photoshop burn photos ever, jeez.


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## Frick (Mar 5, 2011)

Radical_Edward said:


> rickss69, that's one of the oldest photoshop burn photos ever, jeez.



Oh phew. I spent some time googling electrical burns and they can look kinda like that but more burnt.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Mar 5, 2011)

Radical_Edward said:


> rickss69, that's one of the oldest photoshop burn photos ever, jeez.



And to this day still the best ever...


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## AsRock (Mar 5, 2011)

Mussels said:


> then it wasnt static, what you felt was the 5V line from the USB stick.


 
erm no it was static that i always get this time of year due to air being dryer due to heating.  Maybe the 5v added to it but static started it in the 1st place.


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## Mussels (Mar 5, 2011)

AsRock said:


> erm no it was static that i always get this time of year due to air being dryer due to heating.  Maybe the 5v added to it but static started it in the 1st place.



theres no way static can cause the amount of damage you described. i've touched metal between external HDD enclosures and metal PC cases dozens of times and received electric shocks without any damage to the hardware itself - theres just no way one single static spark can do that much damage.


you seem convinced that it was static, but by what evidence? that there was an electrical discharge from a device connected to power? how do you even know it was static?

I think you made an assumption there that it was static exactly as i theorised in my earlier posts, and you're defending your logic/reasoning. there is no need to.


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## 1nf3rn0x (Mar 5, 2011)

Well, today I cleaned out 3 of my pcs. In the process I took out all the gpu's and blasted them with compressed air with bare hands and my pc's are all still working. Though if you wish, you can be better safe than sorry and use a anti static wristband.


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## Arctucas (Mar 5, 2011)

Actually, whether grounded or ungrounded, the objective is to maintain electrical equipotential with the components.


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## scaminatrix (Mar 5, 2011)

Mussels said:


> grounding is pointless.
> static electricity killing hardware is a myth made up by people who killed their systems (or just dont know how to assemble them) and blamed it on something they didnt understand, instead of admitting failure.
> I've built hundreds of machines on carpet (no case - just on the carpet directly) and the only one to have a problem was because a resistor/capacitor (not sure which) on the bottom of the board got caught, and pulled off the board. (cats fault.)
> short version is: static wont really do squat. dont worry about it.
> DO worry about damaging the boards physically however, be careful not to bend pins or contacts, or get debris in any slots.



There is one thing - I've mentioned this before but can't find my post.
I used to work at the Jobcentre with a woman who always used to "kill" pc's just by using them. She killed rigs for years, until a new techie come along and put a rubber mat under her desk. She hasn't killed a PC since.

My theory is that there's certain people who are just "more staticly charged" than others. People like us will never kill anything by static, but there are people who are prone to it.

Just a theory based on personal experience.
I think if you kill a pc with static once, then it'll keep on happening because you're prone to it.


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## AsRock (Mar 5, 2011)

Mussels said:


> theres no way static can cause the amount of damage you described. i've touched metal between external HDD enclosures and metal PC cases dozens of times and received electric shocks without any damage to the hardware itself - theres just no way one single static spark can do that much damage.
> 
> 
> you seem convinced that it was static, but by what evidence? that there was an electrical discharge from a device connected to power? how do you even know it was static?
> ...



i always carry a static charge just this time of year it's like 10 fold.  I don't think it was static alown but static making the connection though the metal case of the thumb drive maybe hitting the 5v connection.

Maybe there was some thing else to play i am just saying static triggered it far enough to take the thumb drive and mobo out. The static shock was the same all that day as i normally discharge my self on my chair.

And there don't need to be a carpet or any thing like that i could be in the local supermarket and i know better not to touch the shelfs or tins to the point i ask the eldest to get them as it's pretty bad some times.


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## Frick (Mar 5, 2011)

Static can kill stuff, especially during manufacturing. But I've never had an actual component die on me, and I've carried around ram sticks and graphic cards in fleece pockets. ^^


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## scaminatrix (Mar 5, 2011)

Frick said:


> Static can kill stuff, especially during manufacturing. But I've never had an actual component die on me, and I've carried around ram sticks and graphic cards in fleece pockets. ^^



Put RAM in your pocket when it's warm (just taken out the rig) then take it out your pocket when it's cold - then see if it works. I reckon that'd kill it.

EDIT:


AsRock said:


> i always carry a static charge just this time of year it's like 10 fold



That's what I was talking about. I think some people are just more prone to it.


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## streetfighter 2 (Mar 5, 2011)

Mussels said:


> grounding is pointless.
> 
> static electricity killing hardware is a myth made up by people who killed their systems (or just dont know how to assemble them) and blamed it on something they didnt understand, instead of admitting failure.


Mussels?  Why you do this to me?

Many microelectronics components are sensitive to ESD (such as CPUs, RAM and various ROMs), whereas BJTs are nearly immune.

Here's a table I found that gives some numbers for various devices using the HBM:
http://www.electrostatics.net/ESD_Guide/technical/ESD_sensitivity.htm

Here's a (practically antique) guide about ESD safety procedures:
http://www.documentation.emersonprocess.com/groups/public/documents/safe_use_guides/d301453x012.pdf

As you are a veteran computer hobbyist/professional, you undoubtedly feel comfortable working on a carpet.  I can up the ante and tell you that I even feel comfortable working on live 110VAC and 240VAC lines (but I still can't do taps for legal reasons ).  Nevertheless I don't recommend anyone attempt the same feats unless they have the requisite knowledge.

Perhaps something relating to the Coriolis effect in your native Austria contributes to lower ESD voltages? 

*Typical Electrostatic Voltages*


*Means of Static Generation*
| 
*Volts @ 10-20 Percent Relative Humidity*
 |
*Volts @ 65-90 Percent Relative Humidity*

Walking across carpet| 35,000| 1,500
Walking over vinyl floor| 12,000 |250
Worker at bench| 6,000 |100
Vinyl envelopes for work instructions |7,000 |600
Poly bag picked up from bench |20,000| 1,200
Work chair padded with poly foam |18,000| 1,500(source) (source 2)

*ESD Sensitivity of electronic devices*


*Device type*
 |
*ESD withstand voltage sensitivity (V) HBM*

MR heads, RF FETs 	|10 - 100 
Power MOSFETs / PIN diodes, laser diodes |100 - 300V 
Pre - 1990 VLSI 	|400 - 1000V 
Modern VSLI 	|1000 - 3000V 
HCMOS 	|1500 - 3000V 
CMOS B Series 	|2000 - 5000 V 
Linear MOS 	|800 - 4000 V 
Small geometry older bipolar 	|600 - 6000 V 
Small geometry modern bipolar 	|2000 - 8000 V 
Power bipolar 	|7000 - 25000 V 
Film resistor 	|1000 - 5000 V(source)

EDIT:  Sources are NOT scholarly.  I'm looking for better ones . . .


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## AsRock (Mar 5, 2011)

scaminatrix said:


> Put RAM in your pocket when it's warm (just taken out the rig) then take it out your pocket when it's cold - then see if it works. I reckon that'd kill it.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...




People jump a mile when they get a static charge of me even my own family do and they know about it.  I can be even joking about it and touch them when they are expecting it and they still jump a mile.

Maybe it's why MSI added some thing to there mobos because static discharge of some people is really bad.

From the MSI site
USB Safeguard

USB Safeguard can prevent mainboards and USB devices from being damaged by short-circuit and ESD (Electro-Static Discharge) with Anti-ESD chips built-into the mainboards. Additionally, the safeguard can protect against such dangers multiple times, and greatly improves product lifespan.

Features
- All MSI mainboards use USB Safeguard’s anti-ESD chip for thorough protection against ESD damage
- USB Safeguard is protected against a short circuit and/or ESD without the need for a fuse. It also supports stand-by power supply

But here's why i all so agree with Mussels as i have been messing with computers since the mid 90's never had a issue although static was a much less issue till 2004 as were i used to live we used coal heating not gas heating. But still from 2004 to now i have had my fair share of computer parts with out issue from static and the AMD setup i had for 5 years without issue.  Maybe it was just a freak thing metal thumb drive and just out 1 of a million chance that i heard the static discharge and ended up with a fucked computer and thumb drive.


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 5, 2011)

static electricity will in-fact render your machine useless if you build up enough of it. every major computer assembly manufacturer uses static mats and static wrist straps to ensure they don't go frying their stuff by accident.


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## scaminatrix (Mar 5, 2011)

I think the answer is simple - 
To properly ground your PC - plug it in and turn the swtich off. Then wrap up your whole body with electrical tape. Or just your fingers.


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## ShiBDiB (Mar 5, 2011)

scaminatrix said:


> I think the answer is simple -
> To properly ground your PC - plug it in and turn the swtich off. Then wrap up your whole body with electrical tape. Or just your fingers.



or jus build ur computer naked. In a concrete bunker.


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## Swamp Monster (Mar 5, 2011)

+1 to what Arctucas, streetfighter 2 and Easy Rhino wrote. Easiest way is to use wrist strap, as it ensures controlled static discharge.


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## Spectrum (Mar 5, 2011)

rickss69 said:


> And to this day still the best ever...



Sorry to bring that back up again, but isn't that shark teeth photoshopped onto somebody's fingers?


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## Mussels (Mar 5, 2011)

i've carried ram and CPU's around in my pocket with no harm done to them. a Q6600 that i stood on and rubbed into carpet (thought it was dead, the board was) and its still working to this day.


I truly believe 100% that static killing hardware is an overhyped myth, leftover from the old days when it really DID fry hardware (also back in that era, sunlight cleared CMOS chips...)


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## hat (Mar 6, 2011)

I build computers on the carpet, wearing clothes most of the time. Never lost anything due to static, ever. All you need to do is touch the side of your case every so often if you're that worried about it. It's not like you're going to be firing lightning bolts from your fingertips.


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## streetfighter 2 (Mar 6, 2011)

Mussels said:


> i've carried ram and CPU's around in my pocket with no harm done to them. a Q6600 that i stood on and rubbed into carpet (thought it was dead, the board was) and its still working to this day.


There are lots of protection measures put in place but that makes it less likely, but not impossible.  

-I've pulled RAM out of a computer while it was running, put it in my pocket and later put it in another computer and it still worked.  
-I've dropped electronics (that were running) in water and they still worked (after drying).
-I've thrown electronics (including LCDs and HDDs) against various hard objects and they still worked.

I wouldn't recommend anyone attempt the same things though.

In all my time working on computers I can't recall for sure if I ever fried anything from static.  Nevertheless it is a documented effect and observing basic precautions is trivial.  Doing otherwise would be illogical.  Where's the emoticon for Spock?

You are aware that static shock can cause deteriorative damage and isn't always immediately apparent?



Mussels said:


> (also back in that era, sunlight cleared CMOS chips...)


EPROMs; I still have a few 4MB ones from CISCO


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## kgreene (Mar 6, 2011)

You can static discharge without you even knowing it. it takes at least 30,000 volt b/f you can feel it.


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## Swamp Monster (Mar 6, 2011)

streetfighter 2 said:


> There are lots of protection measures put in place but that makes it less likely, but not impossible.
> 
> In all my time working on computers I can't recall for sure if I ever fried anything from static. Nevertheless it is a documented effect and observing basic precautions is trivial.



+1 
I guess Mussels is a proof that protection from static has improved greatly both chip level and in PCB's, but I still wouldn't recomend working on carpet. Anyway, it's your hardware.....


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## Bundy (Mar 6, 2011)

Streetfighter 2
I believe your post is raising unnecessary concerns. If you are leaning against the bench or case - it is impossible to build up a charge.

So, I agree that static can damage a chip but all your charts are irrelevant if the chage is being continually discharged. This has clearly been explained by posters in this thread, notably Hats concise recomendation for how to avoid static.


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