# [WARNING] ASUS X299 TUF MK1 BIOS issues - DON'T UPDATE TO BIOS VERSION 1704



## Wet_Paint (Feb 22, 2019)

If you use ASUS X299 motherboard (confirmed on my X299 TUF MK1) don't update to BIOS Version 1704. It disabled BIOS downgrade for me, which isnt much of an issue, but ASUS BIOSes have critical flaw.

I've found out that most BIOSes don't actually let you control voltage of your CPU. Early BIOSes would even report the voltage incorrectly, for example: if i set my CPU to 4.8Ghz and my Vcore to 1.130V it would boot, and be 100% stable. All monitoring software would show approx the same voltage I applied in BIOS. This was obviously false, my guess is that voltage was about 1.3V.
Later BIOS revisions fixed the incorrect Vcore readout(in a way that there is at least some control) but the actual voltage is still "unknown". There is only one BIOS which actually lets you control Vcore and that is Version 1503 and only in manual Vcore mode and disabled downclocking (sync all cores → [your desired CPU multiplier] → manual → [your manual voltage]).

In case you are already on BIOS 1704 and decide to downgrade, then you'll need to use ASUS BIOS Flashback (which can be kinda risky). It did work and my temperatures went back to "normal".
Feel free to test it for yourself if you have *TUF X299 MK1*: (Had to upload it to mega.nz because apperently 21MB is "too large") - contains now removed BIOS 1602, original 1503 and 1704.

I assume the situation on board from the same line-up will be identical (at least on X299-A Prime, TUF X299 MK2...). Feel free to test it for yourself, you might get some extra performance out of your CPU or cooler temps.

*It would be great if mutliple people could confirm this, just to be sure, as one "test sample" isnt very scientific. *

_Note: Using Ai Suite overclocking makes the BIOS 1503 act like other BIOSes → BIOS reflash is required to get the voltage control back._


My results:
Version 1503





Version 1704 (the lower score is because i had steam running in background, as far as i can tell the BIOS versions dont effect score)




Both were ran at:
BCLK: 100.1
Multiplier: 47x (Sync All Cores)
Memory: 3600Mhz 18-19-19-34 T1 tRFC 279
Memory voltage: 1.25V
System agent voltage: 0.930V
CPU input voltage: 1.670V
CPU Current Capability: 140%
LLC: Level 2
Vcore: 1.205V
Uncore offset: +0.150V
Mesh multiplier: 32x
Mesh Voltage: 1.010V
Feel free to replicate my settings.


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## davidcopher (Feb 22, 2019)

Hi there man,

Thanks for sharing this. I was thinking about upgrading my BIOS from the 1602 version to 1704 and happen to find your post on Google. I build my first PC with ROG STRIX X299-E GAMING motherboard and with Intel i9 7960x CPU. I'm a pretty noob to this stuff. Also, I contacted Asus Rog customer support and ask them about why they removed 1602 version from the x299-e gaming motherboard driver download page, they told me "BIOS 1602 version was removed because it was causing our customer's system to be unstable" but I did not have any problem with the BIOS 1602 version. My question to you is that, should I now upgrade to 1704 bios version from my old 1602 version?

Thank you, any help would be appreciated.


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## Wet_Paint (Feb 23, 2019)

davidcopher said:


> Hi there man,
> 
> Thanks for sharing this. I was thinking about upgrading my BIOS from the 1602 version to 1704 and happen to find your post on Google. I build my first PC with ROG STRIX X299-E GAMING motherboard and with Intel i9 7960x CPU. I'm a pretty noob to this stuff. Also, I contacted Asus Rog customer support and ask them about why they removed 1602 version from the x299-e gaming motherboard driver download page, they told me "BIOS 1602 version was removed because it was causing our customer's system to be unstable" but I did not have any problem with the BIOS 1602 version. My question to you is that, should I now upgrade to 1704 bios version from my old 1602 version?
> 
> Thank you, any help would be appreciated.



Depends, if you arent pushing your chip to the max and you must have the latest ME update for some reason then you probably should flash to 1704, but you should understand that there's a quite bigger risk that you'll brick your motherboard if you then decide you want to downgrade since flashback is riskier than upgrade/downgrade. Also i should probably note that i dont know the actual voltage that the motherboard feeds to the CPU and its possible that its even above 1.3V, which will cause long term degradation. This glitch degraded my CPU from 5.1Ghz max to 4.975ish max after running on that unknown voltage for about 8 months. As far as i can tell all BIOSes prior to 1704 can upgrade or downgrade to any other BIOS.

The best thing you can do is run your prefered stress test, monitor the temps and then downgrade to 1503 to check if there is any improvement. It might be just TUF boards but all ASUS X299 seem to have identical VRM and BIOSes. If you are running conservative 4-4.2Ghz its pointless to blast your CPU with +-1.3V all the time.

*I'll try to check what voltage i need to reach similiar temperatures but its still just guessing.

EDIT: Tried couple runs at voltages of 1.290V, 1.300V, 1.310V. 1.310V was too high but both 1.300V or 1.290V seemed identical to what i get on other BIOSes. This is very weird as ASUS recommended YouTubers/Journalists to run their CPUs at 1.250V max at launch of the X299. 
All the BIOSes are complete mess anyway, most of them run at >1.9V CPU Input voltage which is absolute overkill, 1.7V was enough for 5Ghz.


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## EarthDog (Feb 23, 2019)

Wet_Paint said:


> I've found out that most BIOSes don't actually let you control voltage of your CPU.


All ASUS boards do not have the same VRM and BIOS. 

Auto voltage usually leaves a lot of meat on the bone and allows voltage to be lowered. This holds true for all boards Ive personally tested. 


Wet_Paint said:


> This is very weird as ASUS recommended YouTubers/Journalists to run their CPUs at 1.250V max at launch of the X299.


They did? I don't recall that.

Anyway, I have an Omega here for testing... its using 0402 with the latest 0504. So, that said, this isn't an "ALL ASUS X299" issue, first of all. Second, it may just be to that board.


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## Bruno_oc (Feb 23, 2019)

Wet_Paint said:


> This is very weird as ASUS recommended YouTubers/Journalists to run their CPUs at 1.250V max at launch of the X299.


That is not true! I've reviewed several Asus X299 boards and Asus hasn't told me that.
Yet, a value above 1.25V will get the CPU hot if cooling is not appropriate.



Wet_Paint said:


> Also i should probably note that i dont know the actual voltage that the motherboard feeds to the CPU and its possible that its even above 1.3V, which will cause long term degradation. This glitch degraded my CPU from 5.1Ghz max to 4.975ish max after running on that unknown voltage for about 8 months.



You can read the vcore, vin, vccio, etc with HWInfo. It is pretty accurate and it also shows the min and max values so you know how you stand.

From my point of view, your problem may be form LLC value. On Asus boards, LLC 2 means under-volting under load, so 1.2V set in BIOS may went to 1.15V (i don't know exactly how much it over-volts, but use HWInfo to find out) when CPU has workload, but may come to 1.2V when idle, depending on power management settings.
So my advice is this: Use HWInfo and read idle and load voltages (under all BIOSes you need) using LLC 2.
Then try Level 5 and 6 and check the values for those.
Also check the CPU temps in each case.

Regarding CPU temps, in your pics there are cores that reach 100C, which is the reason for CPU degradation. If under CBR15, where load is not that high, your CPU gets to 100C, I don't want to know how it goes under X265 or XTU.




Wet_Paint said:


> All the BIOSes are complete mess anyway, most of them run at >1.9V CPU Input voltage which is absolute overkill, 1.7V was enough for 5Ghz.


Input voltage is split between other voltages (like vcore, vccin, vram, etc). On auto, BIOS sets it to a value that covers system stability and that means fluctuating it up and down along with vcore, vram, vccin, etc. Those voltages depends on CPU quality so some CPUs need higher values. Manufacturers set VIN to 1.8V+ to be sure ANY system will run stable under load regarding CPU and RAM voltages.
Of course, any user can find the lowest VIN for its system, but that means under/over-clocking and there are not many to do it.


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## Wet_Paint (Feb 23, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> All ASUS boards do not have the same VRM and BIOS.
> 
> Auto voltage usually leaves a lot of meat on the bone and allows voltage to be lowered. This holds true for all boards Ive personally tested.
> 
> ...



My apologies, i meant all the motherboards released at launch of X299. The lower-end ones seem to have identical VRM(easy to tell on X299-E and X299-A) and all of them get identical BIOSes at the same time.

As for safe voltage, i dont recall where i saw this figure as i was building my PC almost 2 years ago but im pretty sure it was 1.25V or 1.275V.





Bruno_oc said:


> That is not true! I've reviewed several Asus X299 boards and Asus hasn't told me that.
> Yet, a value above 1.25V will get the CPU hot if cooling is not appropriate.
> 
> 
> ...



I do use HwInfo as well as AIDA64. On the early BIOSes they showed the exact number i typed in to BIOS later BIOSes just show basically random number that makes at least little sense. LLC doesn't change anything, voltage is constant without single milivolt dip at any level, which is suspicious in itself.

Highest temperature with glitched BIOS was 92°C for the whole CPU compared to 76°C on the semi-working BIOS. As for cooling im using 280mm rad, 360mm rad and thick 120mm rad, all of them in push pull and its not problem to run 4.95Ghz at mid 90's, which i obviosly don't do. 
I know what CPU input voltage does, but I noted that since i think this is reason why there was the whole "X299 VRM Distaster". When running non-AVX Prime95 the temperature of VRM barely reaches 87°C in the hotspot in closed case with all intakes blocked by radiators.
These issues have been on at least my motherboard since release and it does seem to be entirely BIOS's fault not hardware fault. 

I also used the identical settings across all the BIOSes, how do you explain the different results? Literally nothing changed except the BIOS and i get almost delid-like temperature drop? (note: my CPU isnt delided)


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## EarthDog (Feb 23, 2019)

Wet_Paint said:


> My apologies, i meant all the motherboards released at launch of X299. The lower-end ones seem to have identical VRM(easy to tell on X299-E and X299-A) and all of them get identical BIOSes at the same time.
> 
> As for safe voltage, i dont recall where i saw this figure as i was building my PC almost 2 years ago but im pretty sure it was 1.25V or 1.275V.


all asus x299 boards at launch did not have the same power bits. 

Voltage goes over 1.25v when set on auto on most (all?) chips... I struggle t9 believe they said this as harmful...but like was said above, things get warm up there on these HCC chips.

Perhaps with the new bios you are hitting some power limit and throttling? Software voltage isnt exactly accurate at times, so that can play a role too.


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## MrGenius (Feb 23, 2019)

Bruno_oc said:


> Regarding CPU temps, in your pics there are cores that reach 100C, which is the reason for CPU degradation.


Wrong and wrong. But, since you've already been corrected on the first one, I'll just address the second one. TJ Max for his processor is 99°C. So 100°C is not even possible, for any extended amount of time anyway. It might hit 100°C for a split second before thermal protection kicks in. And anything below that, temperature wise, isn't going to hurt it at all(no matter how long it's run at whatever sub-100°C temperature). TJ Max = the maximum safe operating temperature for the CPU die. There's no need for internet myths when we have manufacturer specifications.


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## Wet_Paint (Feb 23, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> all asus x299 boards at launch did not have the same power bits.
> 
> Voltage goes over 1.25v when set on auto on most (all?) chips... I struggle t9 believe they said this as harmful...but like was said above, things get warm up there on these HCC chips.
> 
> Perhaps with the new bios you are hitting some power limit and throttling? Software voltage isnt exactly accurate at times, so that can play a role too.



The thing is voltage behaves like on Auto on any settings(Manual, Offset, Adaptive... none of them do anything) in all BIOSes except for 1503. Im not trying to get a solution here as Im fully aware  that there just is none other than fixing the BIOS which is in hands of ASUS. I just want to warn other users, there is nowhere mentioned that updating to 1704 will disable dowgrading. Im waiting for a fix for a long time, I didnt mind it being "broken" as long as ASUS is looking into it, but as of now they are silently removing BIOSes and in the new ones preventing users from downgrading so they can't even compare if they have this problem or not. There is no reason why user couldnt downgrade from 1704 to any previous one, as i did it and everything works 100% fine. 
I sank a lot of hours figuring out how to actually get this to work as should and i simply wanna provide my knowledge to those who are stuck in the same situation.

As for "throttling", there is none, if there was throttling the results would differ, they dont differ outside of margin of error.

As of now it would be great if someone with similiar board could double check this, i absolutely dont mind sharing my testing methodology.


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## EarthDog (Feb 23, 2019)

I'm sure you worked hard and such... but that doesn't mean something possibly couldn't have been missed. Just throwing things out there to add to the pile. 

Did you disable SVID?


Anyway, no issues with the Omega on the newest BIOS. Able to change voltage and such without issue. I hope you find someone with the same board to test and confirm.


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## Wet_Paint (Feb 23, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> I'm sure you worked hard and such... but that doesn't mean something possibly couldn't have been missed.
> 
> Did you disable SVID?


Yes, there are actually two SVID settings, so i disabled one in Ai Tweaker Tab and second one in Tweaker's Paradise Tab.

Edit: Im glad you are not having any issues with your motherboard, but as far as i can tell your motherboard was released with 9000 generation of X299 chips so there might be differences. 
May i ask what CPU, CPU OC settings and CPU cooler are you using? (Your System Specs dont work for me for some reason)


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## EarthDog (Feb 23, 2019)

I just realized I have a X299 TUF Mk1 in the closet... but, I don't know when I will have time to pop it on the bench and test it... I'm pretty behind on other review work. 

From the review it had 0802 on it and there was voltage control there. I upgraded it from.................(looking..........)..........0402.

EDIT: Honestly, I don't think I can get to it as I need to break down my daily driver and drop that CPU in as the BIOS that is on there doesn't support the 9 series CPU...(unless it has CPUless flash capabilities which I do not recall off hand......)

EDIT2: My system specs I have disabled/not filled out. Currently on the omega is a 9980XE with an OC Cool Eisbar extreme. I overclocked it just a bit ago to 4 GHz all c/t 1.05V. Daily driver is a 7960X 16c/t (HT disabled) at 4.4 GHz 1.18V with 3x120mm cooler (MSI board though).


EDIT3: You may want to change the title to something a bit more applicable. At this time, we only know that it is your/the TUF Mk1 having this issue. Until someone proves otherwise, the thread title is pretty misleading.


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## Wet_Paint (Feb 23, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> I just realized I have a X299 TUF Mk1 in the closet... but, I don't know when I will have time to pop it on the bench and test it... I'm pretty behind on other review work.
> 
> From the review it had 0802 on it and there was voltage control there. I upgraded it from.................(looking..........)..........0402.
> 
> ...



TUF MK.1 should be able to be flashed without CPU. Just use BIOS Flashback. (Source)

The reason why i used cinebench is that the run will complete even if the CPU is slightly unstable in lets say Prime95. That way i found out if the voltage control actually works or not. What i did was i tried lowering the cpu voltage by just a little bit (0.010) and kept my eyes on temperatures. With my initial BIOS i kept going down at 4.7Ghz all the way to 1.080V which then just refused to boot but the temperatures were the same all the way from 1.220V. 
It would be great if you could try this test too, but as already noted, your newly released board might not suffer from this. 

I would absolutely change the title, but i honestly have no clue what to and i dont wanna make it too long.


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## EarthDog (Feb 23, 2019)

Just add the name of the board it is affecting.
*[WARNING] ASUS X299 TUF MK1 BIOS issues w/VERSION 1704*

Anyway, Cinebench runs for like 5-8 seconds. Voltage moves on my boards, I've seen it happen, there isn't a need to try it in Cinebench to confirm anything. I would prefer to check something like that on anything that runs longer...but as I said, I saw the changes... saw the results in power output as well. Clearly it doesn't affect this board. NONE of the ASUS boards I reviewed for X299 exhibited this behavior, but it was on older BIOSs as I reviewed these in 2017 through mid 2018. 

0.01V won't budge temps... besides you are reading software and that can be inaccurate. Your quick blip and minor changes, seemingly aren't really telling you the information needed to come to your conclusion. You really need to get at the voltage with a DMM if possible and confirm that way. You are likely right, but more so by accident than data due to the testing methods.

Maybe next week I can dig the board up and flash it forward to the latest and see what is going on.


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## Wet_Paint (Feb 23, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Just add the name of the board it is affecting.
> *[WARNING] ASUS X299 TUF MK1 BIOS issues w/VERSION 1704*
> 
> Anyway, Cinebench runs for like 5-8 seconds. Voltage moves on my boards, I've seen it happen, there isn't a need to try it in Cinebench to confirm anything. I would prefer to check something like that on anything that runs longer...but as I said, I saw the changes... saw the results in power output as well. Clearly it doesn't affect this board. NONE of the ASUS boards I reviewed for X299 exhibited this behavior, but it was on older BIOSs as I reviewed these in 2017 through mid 2018.
> ...



This title would be kind of misleading too, as these issues are on all BIOSes, i just got fed up with ASUS for blocking downgrade on 1704.

This is voltage readout on 1503, it should be the same on all bioses from 802 above.
Note: AIDA64 reads CPU Core voltage as 1/2 of CPU input voltage and CPU VID as the actual CPU voltage. 



Zero Vdroop on Vcore, small Vdroop on CPU Input. And I can confirm that even 0.010V drops temperature by couple degrees (1-3°C).

EDIT: to be clear, im just trying to say that the motherboard reports for most readouts what you set in the BIOS and not the real-time value.


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## Divide Overflow (Feb 23, 2019)

Wet_Paint said:


> you should understand that there's a quite bigger risk that you'll brick your motherboard if you then decide you want to downgrade since flashback is riskier than upgrade/downgrade.


 I'm curious what your basis is for this statement.


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## Wet_Paint (Feb 23, 2019)

Divide Overflow said:


> I'm curious what your basis is for this statement.


Sure, here:
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?102234-Maximus-X-Hero-Wifi-AC-BIOS-Flashback-not-working
https://hardforum.com/threads/usb-bios-flashback-not-working.1922049/

Back when X99 was a thing, i remember someone got their motherboard bricked after using BIOS flash back, and when he contacted MSI support they told him it might not work all the time and that its experimental. (im fully aware this is MSI board and not ASUS, but still...)
↑ cant find source for this tho


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## EarthDog (Feb 23, 2019)

Wet_Paint said:


> This title would be kind of misleading too, as these issues are on all BIOSes


There is? The TUF Mk1 does...maybe... but what about the rest? You're making a lot of assumptions _and_ applying it across all x299 Asus boards.



Wet_Paint said:


> Sure, here:
> https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?102234-Maximus-X-Hero-Wifi-AC-BIOS-Flashback-not-working
> https://hardforum.com/threads/usb-bios-flashback-not-working.1922049/


This proves nothing. There is a risk with any bios flash. I dont see where there is more or less risk from those links. Bad flashes happen man... in either direction. 

What does msi x99 have to do with Asus x299???

(more assumptions...)


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## Wet_Paint (Feb 23, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> There is? The TUF Mk1 does...maybe... but what about the rest? You're making a lot of assumptions _and_ applying it across all x299 Asus boards.
> 
> This proves nothing. There is a risk with any bios flash. I dont see where there is more or less risk from those links. Bad flashes happen man... in either direction.
> 
> ...


My explanation was poor, i admit that, but if you actually used flashback, its very unclear whats actually going on at given moment. When you update your bios from bios you get a progress bar and at least some information. With flashback you get one blinking LED, ASUS isnt very clear either about explaining whats going on. During my flashbacks I waited 20ish minutes after i assumed it was done just to be sure.

This can absolutely confuse normal user and make him turn off his PC and corrupt his BIOS.


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## EarthDog (Feb 23, 2019)

Wet_Paint said:


> My explanation was poor, i admit that, but if you actually used flashback, its very unclear whats actually going on at given moment. When you update your bios from bios you get a progress bar and at least some information. With flashback you get one blinking LED, ASUS isnt very clear either about explaining whats going on. During my flashbacks I waited 20ish minutes after i assumed it was done just to be sure.
> 
> This can absolutely confuse normal user and make him turn off his PC and corrupt his BIOS.


It isnt exactly a feature for the common folk, the flashback, honestly... but yeah, that is low level flashing without a CPU. That little chip doesnt have the horsepower to do anything but. Most users use the ezflash in the bios which does have graphical interface/display progress.

All we know now is your board is sort of borked and MAYBE this issue is for your board... Novody knows if others are affected (hence why the thread title needs to be changed). The rest are assumptions that arent based off anything concrete.

Anyway, I'll see what I can do during the week - hopefully I get some time. I'm just going to flash to the latest bios and see if I can change voltage. Being able to roll back doesnt really concern me much as there always seems to be a stopping point for that kind of thing IIRC.

Have you tried a normal reflash of the latest bios?


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## Bruno_oc (Feb 23, 2019)

MrGenius said:


> Wrong and wrong. But, since you've already been corrected on the first one, I'll just address the second one. TJ Max for his processor is 99°C. So 100°C is not even possible, for any extended amount of time anyway. It might hit 100°C for a split second before thermal protection kicks in. And anything below that, temperature wise, isn't going to hurt it at all(no matter how long it's run at whatever sub-100°C temperature). TJ Max = the maximum safe operating temperature for the CPU die. There's no need for internet myths when we have manufacturer specifications.


99C is the limit of Intel, but many boards usually have the setting on 100-105C, and it can also be set manually, so CPU throttling starts there, not on 99C. Or it may not start at all, if power management settings are disabled. 
CPU degradation is not an Internet myth, especially on air/water cooling. Even though it doesn't happen overnight, a constant exposure to high temps can induce degradation in time. It may appear after one year and just increase the VCore with 0.01V, but it is still degradation.


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## Wet_Paint (Feb 24, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> It isnt exactly a feature for the common folk, the flashback, honestly... but yeah, that is low level flashing without a CPU. That little chip doesnt have the horsepower to do anything but. Most users use the ezflash in the bios which does have graphical interface/display progress.
> 
> All we know now is your board is sort of borked and MAYBE this issue is for your board... Novody knows if others are affected (hence why the thread title needs to be changed). The rest are assumptions that arent based off anything concrete.
> 
> ...


Flashed back 1704 via EZFlash in BIOS and the results were identical. Now that im back to 1503 i can that it effects even the idle temps (1503: 26-35°C; 1704: 33-48°C). Used identical BIOS settings for both.
Also there is one small issue, if you plan on using 9980XE on BIOS 1503 it wont work according to *this*, but maybe you have some sort of a different plan. I'll just list the settings i change in order to get the temperature drop so if anyone wants to test it out...

*Ai Overclock Tuner: Manual (not XMP, set your timings, clocks, voltage manually)
BCLK Frequency: 100.1
CPU Core Ratio: Sync all cores
CPU SVID: Disabled
CPU LLC: Level 2
CPU Current Capability: 140%
BCLK Aware Adaptive Voltage: Disabled  (this option isnt present on BIOS 1704)
CPU Input Voltage: 1.670*
System Agent voltage: 0.930*
Uncore Voltage Offset: +0.150*
CPU Core voltage & CPU cache Voltage: Manual*

*These could be different between CPUs.

I obviously excluded cache and core clocks & voltages as they rely on CPU itself.
Rest left on Auto or "stock"/unchanged from default.


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## EarthDog (Feb 24, 2019)

Wet_Paint said:


> Also there is one small issue, if you plan on using 9980XE on BIOS 1503 it wont work according to *this*, but maybe you have some sort of a different plan.





EarthDog said:


> .........I'm just going to flash to the latest bios and see if I can change voltage.


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## Spouny (May 20, 2019)

Hi,
I've found this topic trying to find some help.
For some reasons I decided to upgrade my Bios version from 0802 to 1704 version, despite the fact that my PC worked perfectly well.
Before updating the bios, I downloaded and installed all the latest versions of the drivers and firmware of my chipset (ITBM Version 1.1.0.1005; Intel Chipset Driver Version 10.1.1.45; Intel ME Version 11.11.65.1590, and so on...).
All the installations went smoothly, I restarted and used the PC for a few hours following these installations, and everything was working normally. So I think my problem is not related to these updates.

Then I updated my bios (from the bios using the tools Asus EZ Flash 3). Before that I renamed the bios file with the program attached in the archive (ROG-STRIX-X299-E-GAMING-ASUS-1704.CAP => X299SE.CAP).
The update went normally, in the end I got the message that the bios had been updated successfully.

Note that in the bios I'm just loading the XMP profile and some minor changes to the operation of the fans.
My CPU is not overclocked because my knowledge does not allow me to do this, and unfortunately I do not have enough time to learn.
So it works at the basic frequencies set by default in the motherboard.
Before booting the PC after the bios update, I went in the Bios settings and I put everything as before (AI Overclock Tuner : XMP instead of Auto; Q Fan control : DC Mode instead of Auto).

After this, impossible to start Windows, I had many blue screen during Windows start up saying that my PC have a problem and needs to restart with such QR Code :
- CRITICAL_PROCESS_DIED
- IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
- And many others like this.

Windows has made multiple attempts to repair, without success.
Then I tried to reset all Bios settings to default, then to start the system again.
It started, but it seems that the system is unstable and some software does not work properly.

I really don't know what to do now.
I would prefer to return to the old version that worked well.
For Windows, I can restore it from a complete Acronis image of my partitions, which is only 15 days old.
But I would also like to go back to the version 0802 of the bios because I had no problem with it.
Is it possible to go back to bios 0802 and how ?
I tried from the bios with ASUS EZ Flash 3, but it always tells me when reading the bios on my USB drive, that it's not a proper Bios. I tried renaming the .CAP file and without renaming it, I have the same message.
For this risky operation, is the only way to use the USB BIOS FLASBACK button ?
If so, should I rename the .CAP file from bios 0802 to X299SE.CAP or not ?
Otherwise do you think I have to stay in version 1704, but in this case I do not know how to set my bios to make the system working, and I'm afraid of having to reinstall my entire system because the installation seems damaged (it would be weeks of work and I would like to avoid).
Thanks for your help.


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## Wet_Paint (May 22, 2019)

Found a fix for the unreasonably high temperatures:

1. Uninstall AI Suite 3 (Thermal Radar 3)
2. Stop all these services & prevent them from starting ever again (they will remain there even after uninstall):



3. Reboot
4. Open Task Scheduler
5. Block all events in ASUS folder
6. Reflash your BIOS

Results in consistent temperature but 1704 still causes +-5°C higher temps in all scenerios(Could be hidden Offset in 1704 as TjMax in 1503 is 105°C while in 1704 is 110°C).

This fix has one disadvantage, which is being able to change fan curves only in BIOS.



Spouny said:


> - CRITICAL_PROCESS_DIED
> - IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL


I get these if my IMC or RAM isnt stable.

The best thing you could do is downgrade to 1503 and if you still get crashes increase System Agent Voltage to 0.975V (I run mine at 0,930V for 3733Mhz).




Spouny said:


> I tried from the bios with ASUS EZ Flash 3, but it always tells me when reading the bios on my USB drive, that it's not a proper Bios. I tried renaming the .CAP file and without renaming it, I have the same message.



It says this even if the BIOS is completely fine, i used Flashback more than 10 times and it went well every time, i just recommend not doing anything with the PC as long as the LED light is blinking, ASUS manuals have some contradictory statements.




Spouny said:


> For this risky operation, is the only way to use the USB BIOS FLASBACK button ?
> If so, should I rename the .CAP file from bios 0802 to X299SE.CAP or not ?



Yes Flashback is the only way.
The name of the file should be X299SE and the extention .CAP, make sure its not X299SE.CAP.CAP.

This is how my Flashback drive is configured






Spouny said:


> Otherwise do you think I have to stay in version 1704


I really wouldnt stay in 1704, doesn't have any benefits over 1503, and i dont think OS re-install would help with your issue.
You could also try to not use XMP to see if its stable, but you will take huge performance hit.


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## Spouny (May 22, 2019)

Thanks for your answer.
After a few days doing different tests and using the PC I start to understand what's wrong.
You are right, now I'm sure that my OS wasn't damaged, a re-install would not help.
These last two days I used the PC and it worked fine, but for that I have to keep the default BIOS settings !
As soon as I try to run my RAM at the frequency at which it worked well with the bios 0802 (nothing more than manufacturer spécifications => 3200MHz / 15.15.15.35 / 1.35V) the PC does not boot anymore and I have the same error codes as before. It confirms what you said about IMC and your RAM.
Other test done:
- If I load the XMP profile, the correct frequency is applied, as well as the good timings, and also the correct voltage (1.35V) => but no boot, blue screen.
- I tried to leave everything in auto except DRAM Frequency for which I selected DDR4-3200MHz (my RAM that's it: https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f4-3200c15q-32gtzsw ) => When I do this, the bios applies the right frequency, but it puts the timings at 18 instead of 15 (which does not seem abnormal if I do not set them manually), but the problem is that the bios automatically applies 1.51V to the RAM !!! => I rushed to cut everything when I saw that.
- Then I tried the same thing, everything in auto, except DRAM Frequency on DDR4-3200MHz and manual DRAM voltage at 1.35V. The bios applies the right frequency, the right voltage, always the basic timings at 18 instead of 15 (normal) => but no boot, blue screen.
- Then tested the same thing, but at 1.2V for the voltage DRAM => No boot, blue screen.
- Then I tested everything in auto, except DRAM Frequency on DDR4-3200MHz and manual DRAM voltage at 1.35V, and manual timings 15/15/15/35 => The bios applies well as it should, but no boot, blue screen.

At the moment I just noticed that the PC works fine and is stable with all the default BIOS settings (and therefore my RAM at 2133MHz and 1.2V), changing the RAM frequency to 3200MHz breaks it, whatever the voltage or timings applied, and especially the bios automatically applies 1.5V to the DRAM if I leave the voltage on Auto and I manually select DDR4-3200MHz.

I've sent an email to Asus to ask for explanations and to ask if it's a known issue with this bios ?

What would you advises me, go back to 0802 and flash bios versions one by one and test each of them a few days / weeks to check their operation, or flash the 1503 directly ?
Is there a risk downgrading bios version ?
Last question, it seemed to me that it was specified on the Asus website that was needed an USB key format FAT16 / 32 for the bios, yours is NTFS, isn't it a problem ?

Thanks.


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## Wet_Paint (May 22, 2019)

Spouny said:


> nothing more than manufacturer spécifications => 3200MHz / 15.15.15.35 / 1.35V


The reason why this most likely happens is because XMP profile usually only sets frequency, CL, tRCD,tRP an tRAS while the rest of the settings(theres like >50 settings more) are set by motherboard which in rare cases can cause issues.



Spouny said:


> If I load the XMP profile, the correct frequency is applied, as well as the good timings, and also the correct voltage (1.35V) => but no boot, blue screen.
> - I tried to leave everything in auto except DRAM Frequency for which I selected DDR4-3200MHz



If you are feeling adventurous try to set the XMP settings manually and tRFC to 450 with System Agent voltage at 1.0V(up to 1.1V is fine), if even that doesnt work then something must be seriously wrong. Its very weird that your memory is so unstable, ive basically identical board but im running just fine DDR4(two different sets of dual channel kits) from 2014 thats specified only for 3000Mhz CL16 while it actually runs fine at 3733 CL17 with very tightened subtimings.



Spouny said:


> At the moment I just noticed that the PC works fine and is stable with all the default BIOS settings


When you turned the XMP on did you enable ASUS multicore enhancement? It will lock all your cores to 4.3 or 4.5GHz (dont remember which one) which could also be source of instability.
Most stable settings are following: Sync all cores at 45, leave the cache alone and set the CPU Vcore to Manual 1.160V, should be rock solid stable just in case its still unstable even at 1503. Other settings can cause that the board does whatever it wants with any of the voltages. 
You could also try running just the CPU overclocked at 4.5Ghz 1.160V and see if thats stable and then manually overclock the memory to XMP values.



Spouny said:


> I've sent an email to Asus to ask for explanations and to ask if it's a known issue with this bios ?


This is totally my opinion but i think Asus just doesnt care, there arent enough X299 users for them to worth the hussle of fixing this stuff. These issues are there since lunch in 2017 (bought my board +-4 months after launch)



Spouny said:


> What would you advises me


You should go straight to 1503 imho, I used each BIOS since 503 (skipped the 402 as my board came with 503), early BIOSes (503 - 1401) had major issues with voltage reporting for Vcore, if i set Vcore of 1.090V(all SW would report identical voltage as set in BIOS) it would boot at 4.7Ghz easy, which isnt realistic at all obviously while the real voltage would around 1.230V and wouldnt be actually change-able at all. I even verified it by monitoring temperature readouts.



Spouny said:


> Last question, it seemed to me that it was specified on the Asus website that was needed an USB key format FAT16 / 32 for the bios, yours is NTFS, isn't it a problem ?


For me NTFS works absolutely fine, if you are worried its not an issue to just format it to FAT16/32.



Spouny said:


> 1.51V to the RAM !!! => I rushed to cut everything when I saw that.


1.51V isnt gonna kill your RAM, i needed +-1.5V for 4000MHz RAM benchmarking but you shouldnt run it long term.


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## phanbuey (May 22, 2019)

so wait - is your current bios maintaining the 4.7Ghz OC?  and at what voltage?  I glanced through the thread and MSI bioses only have a weird offset if you use dynamic voltage for the different clock steppings.

That really sucks, I would RMA the board and then sell the replacement.
Nice chip btw - I like that 5.1 Ghz cinebench run ...

NVM - re read.  Glad you got it working.


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## Spouny (May 23, 2019)

Wet_Paint said:


> If you are feeling adventurous try to set the XMP settings manually and tRFC to 450 with System Agent voltage at 1.0V(up to 1.1V is fine), if even that doesnt work then something must be seriously wrong. Its very weird that your memory is so unstable, ive basically identical board but im running just fine DDR4(two different sets of dual channel kits) from 2014 thats specified only for 3000Mhz CL16 while it actually runs fine at 3733 CL17 with very tightened subtimings.



I'm not very adventurous, I just want a stable and functional PC as long as possible. And as my knowledge about overclocking is very limited, I usually do nothing more than increasing the coeficient of some units to gain a few hundred MHz, but without touching the CPU voltage or anything else.
At the moment I do not need this CPU to be OC, it's used for gaming only and it works at 75% load at most.
But I'm not against trying to do as usual, a slightly OC, but I do not know which settings to change, only the ones you mentioned ? :

- tRFC to 450
- System Agent voltage at 1.0V
- Sync all cores at 45 (what do I have to set, to do this ?)
- CPU Vcore to Manual 1.160V



Wet_Paint said:


> When you turned the XMP on did you enable ASUS multicore enhancement? It will lock all your cores to 4.3 or 4.5GHz (dont remember which one) which could also be source of instability.
> Most stable settings are following: Sync all cores at 45, leave the cache alone and set the CPU Vcore to Manual 1.160V, should be rock solid stable just in case its still unstable even at 1503. Other settings can cause that the board does whatever it wants with any of the voltages.



No, I didn't enabled ASUS multicore enhancement. I really did nothing else than turning on XMP and changing the case Fans control from Auto to DC Mode.



Wet_Paint said:


> You could also try running just the CPU overclocked at 4.5Ghz 1.160V and see if thats stable and then manually overclock the memory to XMP values.



I'm waiting for ASUS answer, and unless they strongly advise against going back to bios 1503, I will go to 1503.
At that moment I will try what you told me, but the problem of setting the DRAM manually is that there are probably a lot of parameters to change, and the only ones for which I think I know what to adjust, are the timings 15.15.15.35.
I do not even know whether to put 1T or 2T.
During my tests with the DRAM set to 3200MHZ and the timings in manual, I put 2T because with the bios 0802 when the XMP profile was functional, it was automaticaly set to 2T.



Wet_Paint said:


> 1.51V isnt gonna kill your RAM, i needed +-1.5V for 4000MHz RAM benchmarking but you shouldnt run it long term.


It never worked long like that, after setting the Ram on DDR4-3200 and leaving the RAM voltage on Auto, I went back directly into the bios to check what voltage was applied, it was written 1.51V.
So I Immediately set the voltage manually to 1.35V and I saved the changes.
It stayed with this voltage about 30 seconds only.

Thanks again, your help is appreciated.


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## Wet_Paint (May 23, 2019)

Spouny said:


> but I do not know which settings to change, only the ones you mentioned ? :














Hope this helps, just *DON'T COPY* the settings from the screenshots but use the numbers i gave you. You will probably have the settings in different order since i've Extreme-OV Jumper shortcircuited.

I would recommend the 4.5Ghz 1.160V OC with RAM at stock and if that proves stable(give it at least couple days) then try manually setting the RAM to 3200Mhz.



Spouny said:


> I do not know which settings to change, only the ones you mentioned ?


Yes, only the ones that i mentioned.
CPU Core Voltage: Manual Mode
CPU Core Voltage Override: 1.160
DRAM REF Cycle Time: 450
CPU System Agent Voltage 1.0V

Your cooler should have no issues with this "OC", i can cool this with NH-D15 and single low RPM fan.



Spouny said:


> At the moment I do not need this CPU to be OC


I've encountered issue where stock settings were unstable, it was 4790K on MSI Z97 motherboard, Vcore was too low at stock. Thats why i recommend the 4.5Ghz 1.160V (mine does 4.5Ghz at 1.1135V, the extra voltage is for CPU quality variance).



Spouny said:


> I do not even know whether to put 1T or 2T.


Use 2T. T1 is usually used when you are overclocking or with some high end Samsung B-Dies.


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## Spouny (May 24, 2019)

Ok understood.
At the moment I'm still with the Bios 1704, and I will proceed step by step, first by checking which RAM frequency could be used with 1704.
Then I'll go back to the 1503 to perform the same tests.

I still have 2 questions for which I am interested:
- We did not talk about timings. I will manually select the RAM frequency and use the PC a few days between each step increase. I started from 2133MHZ, then I went to 2400MHz, and at this moment I'm testing 2666MHz. Regarding the timmings I manually set those of the XMP profile (15.15.15.35). I did this because the goal is to get closer to what I had before, but am I doing well ?
- In your previous post you said "I would recommend the 4.5Ghz 1.160V OC with RAM at the end and if that proves stable (give it at least couple days) then try manually setting the RAM to 3200Mhz." Do I have to infer that it is sometimes possible to run the RAM at a higher frequency with a CPU OC, or it's not the case but the correct order in which to do things is to start with the CPU OC, and then to set the RAM ?

Are the settings as shown on the pictures below OK (exept the DRAM frequency which is currently 2666MHz) ?


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## Wet_Paint (May 25, 2019)

Spouny said:


> We did not talk about timings.


Keep the timing as specified by manufacturer 15-15-15-35.



Spouny said:


> but am I doing well ?


 Yep, just keep increasing it until you reach 3200Mhz, i wouldnt go past that. But between RAM frequency increase wait at least 2 days to see if its actually stable.



Spouny said:


> sometimes possible to run the RAM at a higher frequency with a CPU OC


The answer is yes and no at the same time. As you increase the CPU GHz the motherboard will increase some voltages that are on auto without you even knowing to make sure its stable. This might indirectly cause better stability with memory OC but in your case it was to rule out possibility of unstable CPU.



Spouny said:


> start with the CPU OC, and then to set the RAM ?


You should always overclock only one component at the time in order to know whats actually unstable.  Since we know that the 4.5Ghz OC is 99,999% stable then you can focus solely on the RAM.



Spouny said:


> Are the settings as shown on the pictures below OK


Looks good to me.


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## Spouny (May 25, 2019)

Thanks for all, I'll test that and report in a fews days.

Yesterday I had an answer from ASUS support, what they said/advise me :
- Clear CMOS for reset of the Bios memory, then reflash the same version 1704 with the function "USB Bios Flashback",
- If I get the same unsatisfactory operation of the PC, they tell me to proceed in the same way to downgrade Bios version, and try if it improves,
- To contact them again when I have tested this, to keep them informed of the situation.

The first step, I wonder if it is not to check that there was not a bug during the upgrade, due to the fact that I had left my profile active instead of resetting the Bios to the parameters by default as it is usually advised.

I'll do this in a few days when I will know the maximum frequency that I can reach in the current state.


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## Spouny (May 29, 2019)

Results of the following tests, always without CPU OC :
- RAM frequency 2800MHz => OK for 2 days of test,
- RAM frequency 3000MHz => OK for 2 days of test,
It's Strange that at 3200MHz impossible to boot even once, and at 3000MHz everything works perfectly.
So I retried at 3200MHz to confirm that this frequency is NOK, it was confirmed => no boot (Blue Screen your PC have a problem).
I'm starting to seriously think that it's just at 3200MHz that it's broken.
I set it to 3400MHz, and since this morning everything works perfectly.
It could just be a bug at the 3200MHz, probably due to the fact that before updating the Bios I did not reset all the parameters to their default value, and that my RAM was set to 3200MHz .
Next test, do what advised me ASUS => Default Bios settings before reflash of the same bios and test at 3200MHz.


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## jaggerwild (May 29, 2019)

The TUF series seems to have been down graded, as I had a TUF Z270. And it was a dog, it does not have the support of  the upper tier Asus boards.  Sorry the topic was highjacked


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## Wet_Paint (May 29, 2019)

Spouny said:


> I wonder if it is not to check that there was not a bug during the upgrade, due to the fact that I had left my profile active instead of resetting the Bios to the parameters by default as it is usually advised.





Spouny said:


> t could just be a bug at the 3200MHz, probably due to the fact that before updating the Bios I did not reset all the parameters to their default value, and that my RAM was set to 3200MHz .


Both of these definetly couldnt have caused any of these issues.



Spouny said:


> So I retried at 3200MHz to confirm that this frequency is NOK, it was confirmed => no boot (Blue Screen your PC have a problem).
> I'm starting to seriously think that it's just at 3200MHz that it's broken.
> I set it to 3400MHz, and since this morning everything works perfectly.


I have the same with 3800Mhz, cant run it even with the same settings that can run nearly 100% stable at 4000Mhz. There is work around but you would have to change the CPU strap and it would get kind of complicated, so just dont.

You can try running at 3400Mhz 15-15-15-35 and see if its stable long term or if you are too worried about stability just tune it down to 3000Mhz.



Spouny said:


> Next test, do what advised me ASUS => Default Bios settings before reflash of the same bios and test at 3200MHz.


I'm 100% sure this wont help either, the issues is with how the motherboard handles memory, not necessery with the settings in BIOS, probably cant be fixed with bios update either.

Since you are already on 1704, just stick with it, make sure your CPU is properly cooled (below 85°C during Cinebench R15) and actually enjoy your PC without going thru troubleshooting hell for nothing. I regret spending so much time on my motherboard instead of actually playing games or doing something thats actually entertaining.



jaggerwild said:


> The TUF series seems to have been down graded, as I had a TUF Z270. And it was a dog, it does not have the support of the upper tier Asus boards. Sorry the topic was highjacked


Ive noticed this too, with haswell most of them were solid and with 5 year warranty, skylake/kabylake had only the top end models somewhat decent, coffelake and above lost both quality and 5 year warranty, ASUS just turned them into low cost gimmick. Luckily no one is forced to buy only TUF and my next motherboard definitely wont be TUF if this is what they will be in future too.


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## Spouny (May 31, 2019)

Results of latest tests, always without CPU OC :

RAM frequency 3400MHz => OK for 2 days of test.

Then, I tried what was advided by ASUS => Clear CMOS then reflash Bios 1704 with USB Bios Flashback.
I noticed the same malfunctions that after the first Bios update, impossible to boot with RAM set to 3200MHz, either by loading the XMP profile or setting everything manually, while from 2133 to 3400MHz all other frequencies work.

Then Clear CMOS and flash of the Bios 1503 with USB Bios Flashback.
And there everything works normally as before when I had the old version 0802.
I've loaded XMP profile, answered yes to the question, and no more problem with the RAM set at 3200MHz.
So you were 100% right, the Bios 1704 have bugs and was the source of my worries.

Now it remains me to try what you advised me about the light CPU OC :
- Sync all cores,
- 45 ratio,
- Manual CPU core voltage,
- CPU Core Voltage Override 1.160V
- CPU System Agent Voltage 1.0V

And what about the DRAM Ref Cycle Time ? As now it seems to work well with the Auto XMP settings, do I have to set it to 450 as previously advised ?

Thanks for all.


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## Wet_Paint (May 31, 2019)

Spouny said:


> And what about the DRAM Ref Cycle Time ? As now it seems to work well with the Auto XMP settings, do I have to set it to 450 as previously advised ?


Try to lower it to 350 (lower is actually better with this one) but you shouldnt go any lower as your memory will be extremely hard to stabilize.

You should also lower the other settings, CPU Core voltage override should be fine with 1.145V and System Agent probably needs only like 0,925V. I told you to use very conservative voltages which are not really needed if your system is running properly like it is right now.


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## cstkl1 (Jun 3, 2019)

Spouny said:


> Results of latest tests, always without CPU OC :
> 
> RAM frequency 3400MHz => OK for 2 days of test.
> 
> ...


asus x299 right up to bios 0503 had a dram strap issue for 3200. cant remember which one but it was either the 100 or 133. only one worked.

guessing this was your problem.

also suspect at 1704 your xmp used the wrong dram clk.

vcssa. seriously right to 3800c16@1.3v just left it at auto which had a value of 0.768v on load for 4x8gb. daily i run 3733@1.285v. strix x299-e btw with 7820x. 

trfc on the latest bios doesnt have as much impact as tfaw and trefi. so i would set 16, 32767. notice this from hci memtest runtime to complete 100% on 28800mb (16x1800). indicates large quick reads/writes/copy.  tref u cam try these for bdie 8gb sticks 280/327/350/374.

mesh scaling on voltages right up to 30/31 will be 1v or lower. 32 and above things get whack. best way to test it is via y-cruncher via avx 512. you pass couple rounds of that.. it will pass everything. 

bios 1503 above had massive improvement in stability. 1704 atm seems to cater for the latest hedt 9 series cpu i guess.

mesh 30, ram >=3200@1t tfaw 16, trefi max.. is superb. above this improvements start to be minimal based on fps/cinebench scores etc


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## Spouny (Jul 8, 2019)

Hi,
The PC seems to work properly since the return to Bios 1503, except that from time to time when I start the PC, it does not boot and the displayed Q-code is E9 => S3 Resume PPI not Found.
It may have nothing to do with my bios update, but this problem appeared for the first time a few days later, and it happens once every 5 to 10 starts.
When it happens I have to press on the power button during a few seconds to turn off the PC, when starting after that tells me to go into the bios by pressing a key, once in the bios I'm exiting without saving changes and the PC works normally until the next time. Any idea about why this problem ?
Thanks.


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## Wet_Paint (Jul 8, 2019)

Spouny said:


> Any idea about why this problem ?


I never use sleep mode so i have never encountered this issue but it seems like it might be OS or SSD issue. From my understanding the data required to wake up from sleep aren't located where they are supposed to be. You can just not use sleep mode or update OS and see what happens.


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## Spouny (Jul 9, 2019)

I never uses sleep mode, I'm stoping and starting my PC each time.
I've searched internet to try to find what do I have to check on the PC, maybee a bad connection, but I've found nothing.
Bye the way, when I have this problem, it don't pass the boot phases, it's crashed before the message to press a key to enter the bios, maybe just 1 sec after pressing the power button.


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## Wet_Paint (Jul 9, 2019)

Did it start right after the BIOS update? If so you might wanna try to increase CPU voltage or maybe lower your DRAM overclock. If that doesnt help try re-seating RAM sticks and CPU.


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## Spouny (Jul 9, 2019)

No it didn't start right after the bios update. The last bios update was at the end of May and the first time I had this problem was last week, so one month later.
Next time it will occur I will try to unconnect and reconnect all connectors of the PC, and re-seat RAM sticks as you advised.
Thank you.


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## Spouny (Nov 6, 2019)

Hi,

Have someone tested one the two latest bios release, V1902 (2019/07/19) and/or V2002 (2019/10/04) ?

Thanks.


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