# Looking to Build a PC - Details Inside!



## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

Okay, so as you can tell I'm COMPLETELY new on this forum, and also completely new to computers. I've gamed on computers for years now, and have always been fascinated by building a personal computer. Over the previous few months, I've looked into various computer parts and overclocking. I've been on Youtube many times searching & watching videos of people building computers step by step, and I think I've got the hang of it.

I've finally decided to ask my parents if they would give me the funds to build my own computer, and fortunately they both agreed. What I'm looking for in a computer... I'm not too sure, but I want one that's build for gaming and videos, which would probably mean insane graphics.

I know that in order to efficiently overclock, you need a great combination of 3 things: motherboard, processor, and memory. (*How much faster will my hardware die out if I overclock? I've heard that overclocking shortens the life span of a piece of hard ware by a lot.)*

My budget is around $800, although lesser would be awesome. (I would've had around $1000 to spend on a computer, but I spent a small portion of that on some gaming peripherals such as mouse/keyboard/mousepad/headset/webcam.) I plan on using this computer for the next 3-4 years, so please keep overclocking potential in mind when picking out my parts.

I know I probably sound like a lazy bum, but I'm honestly not sure what parts to order, what's good for this/that, what's compatible with what, and which parts would give me the biggest bang for my buck. (I'm still quite new to all this computer stuff.)


```
[B][Size=3]What it looks like so far:[/B][/SIZE]

[SIZE="4"][B]Intel Build:[/B][/SIZE]

LCD - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009125[/url]
HD - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319[/url]
PSU - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005[/url]
RAM - 
GPU - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.163933[/url]
MB - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358[/url]
CPU - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041[/url]
Heatsink - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023[/url]
Case - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119077[/url]
DVD - 
Card Reader - 
TC - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007[/url]

[SIZE="4"][B]AMD Build:[/B][/SIZE]

LCD - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009125[/url]
HD - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319[/url]
PSU - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005[/url]
RAM - 
GPU - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.163933[/url]
MB - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131368[/url]
CPU - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471[/url]
Heatsink - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023[/url]
Case - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119077[/url]
DVD -
Card Reader -
TC - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007[/url]
```


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## Rapid (Mar 5, 2009)

Theres me getting excited about you building and actual CPU! Not just the actual pc base unit.

I think one of the first questions to ask you would be. What exactly are you going to use this pc for?
You mentioned gaming, is it soley a gaming pc? Or will you have any other specific needs which might need some sort of specific hardware??


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## ShadowFold (Mar 5, 2009)

Keeping hardware at safe voltage(below 1.5v for CPU's) will not shorten it's life span. 
Assuming you don't have a monitor..
CPU + Motherboard Phenom II 720BE + MSI 790GX http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.165035
4gb Corsair XMS2 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184
HIS HD 4870 512mb - http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.162207
19" Widescreen monitor http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254005
LG DVD Drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136152
Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147075
250gb Hard drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148262
Corsair 550w PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004

I have the motherboard, RAM, case HDD and DVD drive listed above, they are all stellar products and I recommend them 

Also, don't skimp on cooling!! I have this heatsink and it's a beast
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023&Tpk=Xigmatek HDT-S1284EE
Here is some really good thermal compound that I use 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233030&Tpk=Xigmatek

If you do have a monitor upgrade to this stuff
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.165080

And don't be intimidated by building one. I'm 16 right now and I can do this stuff with a blindfold on.


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## D007 (Mar 5, 2009)

Although I can't quite give detailed information right now about which parts to buy because i need sleep lol..
I will say overclocking will not decrease the life badly at all if you keep the cpu cool.
water cooling is best.. 
air cooling or thermo cooling is also optional.
even more extreme measures, like oil submersion.

You mention maybe 5 years of using it..
degradation due to overclocking won't be an issue as long as you cool it properly..
I've been using an e6400 conroe at 1.6volts, which is well over safe specs for 2 years lol..
it runs like a charm still.
keep it cool.

and use good thermal paste.. 
arctic silver 5 is among the best.
apply it properly.

some would say an X from corner to corner in a fine line and a dot in the middle..
don't mess up the paste to much, leaving bubbles or imperfections, between the cpu and the heatsink.


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## MKmods (Mar 5, 2009)

you are gonna get 1000s of different opinions here...

Since its your first build make it as simple as possible (no multiple video cards or HDs or water cooling and dont worry so much about OCing at first, just get good stuff)

Start by picking a case you like, look for one that has good cooling from the beginning so you wont overheat the comp you build. (Lian Li is a good start)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112184

Than get a "VERY GOOD" Power supply (Corsair, Seagate, Silverstone etc)

Now its time to start the war over Intel/AMD Pick one...

When it comes time to get a Video Card it will depend on what monitor you have and plan to use.

$800 wont go too far building a gaming comp so try to get some good quality used parts.


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## ShadowFold (Mar 5, 2009)

MKmods said:


> $800 wont go too far building a gaming comp so try to get some good quality used parts.



Now I don't know about that, I just put together one with a PII x3 and a 4870.. I have a dual core and two 4830's and it's pretty awesome for gaming. Building a top of the line Crysis crunching, record breaking machine, now that's more than 800$ but a basic gaming machine only really costs 500$-600$.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

Okay, ShadowFold, I just looked at your build and I must say, it looks quite promising. Even with the cooling and thermal compound, AND an extra hard drive, it comes out to $800.89! How do you think it would OC? As you said, if I kept the voltage under 1.5 would it break 3.5ghz with the air cooling you listed?

So, in response to your original build, I do need a lot more hard drive space, and hopefully a larger monitor. Also, how about an extra fan just to be safe? I know that my budget might be limiting, but in all honesty, I have over $800 to spend, my parents are willing to invest more than that, but I simply don't want to spend so much.

PS - I'm sorry I didn't reply to everyone's post. I wrote up quite a lengthy response but some double posting error I ran into erased it, and I'm quite lazy to rewrite it.


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## MKmods (Mar 5, 2009)

Remember this is his first build..And he dosent have your connections or experience.

Dont forget he is probably gonna need a monitor (for gaming, look at a 20 or 22" one)

And rather than thinking of OCing to 3.5 why not get a 3.2Ghz CPU at stock? (Like an AMD X2 6400 or an E8400 if Intel)

Remember keep it simple...

and while I like Rosewill for ME (I mod the shit out of them) he dosent have the skills,time or tools to mess with airflow. Better to get a better case to begin with.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm quite lost and confused right now. You all know so much and I'm sitting here trying to keep up with you guys!


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## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

Rapid said:


> Theres me getting excited about you building and actual CPU! Not just the actual pc base unit.
> 
> I think one of the first questions to ask you would be. What exactly are you going to use this pc for?
> You mentioned gaming, is it soley a gaming pc? Or will you have any other specific needs which might need some sort of specific hardware??



Oh crap! I should've wrote PC instead of CPU, sorry I'll see if I can fix it. (Probably not though, knowing this kind of forum layout.)

And I do plan on storing a lot of videos on it, and recording a lot of gaming footage with FRAPS, so I need 500+ GB worth of storage.



ShadowFold said:


> Keeping hardware at safe voltage(below 1.5v for CPU's) will not shorten it's life span.
> Assuming you don't have a monitor..
> CPU + Motherboard Phenom II 720BE + MSI 790GX http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.165035
> 4gb Corsair XMS2 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184
> ...



Well, I REALLY appreciate all the detail you put into your post. Indeed I have a monitor, but I plan on occasionally running both computers at once, so I'd like to keep my current computer in one piece! (My mom might use my current computer, it's an HP Pavilion a1540n, quite good for something I bought two years ago!) I'll start adding up the costs and of the rig you put together, then looking at some reviews on the internet on the various parts and pieces.) Oh, and will your rig be good for overclocking? 



D007 said:


> Although I can't quite give detailed information right now about which parts to buy because i need sleep lol..
> I will say overclocking will not decrease the life badly at all if you keep the cpu cool.
> water cooling is best..
> air cooling or thermo cooling is also optional.
> ...



Artic Silver 5 is indeed a good thermal paste. How do I know? Some guy on Youtube said so! If you have the time, please find a build for me, I'd love to know what you would throw together for a budget wise gaming rig.

Okay, so from all 3 posts, I have this to say:

I'm looking for more space in the hard drive, and aside from gaming/videos and the occasional Photoshopping, I won't need it for anything else. (Well, of course I'll go on MSN/AIM and browse the web.)

And thank everybody for letting me know that proper cooling won't damage the hard ware too much, this was one of my main worries.


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## MKmods (Mar 5, 2009)

take your time and dont be in a hurry. Wait till others start to chime in and give their opinions...
(LOL, there is gonna be a lot to decipher)

PS: where are you? US, EU, China..

Shadow is right on the 720, its an excellent OCer (if you go AMD)


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## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

I'm actually in the USA, New York. Turning 16 in about a month!



MKmods said:


> you are gonna get 1000s of different opinions here...
> 
> Since its your first build make it as simple as possible (no multiple video cards or HDs or water cooling and dont worry so much about OCing at first, just get good stuff)
> 
> ...



Oh, I can care less whether it's Intel or AMD, I just want a rig that will give me the most for my money.


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## MKmods (Mar 5, 2009)

well I like AMD, but there are a lot that like Intel. Shadows build is AMD also. I think right now you get more for the money with AMD/ ATI.

And you could save a bit of $$ by buying one of Shadows 4830s (very good cards)

Also are you gonna use XP, Vista 32 or 64bit? If you use the 64bit than get 4 gigs if not you only need 2 gigs of memory.


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## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

If 5years is how long it must last, I suggest going with a quad core, not a tri-core. I would also suggest grabbing an Intel quad over an AMD, as the Intel's are a hair faster, and OC a touch better if you grab a 45nm version. Not by much, but every little bit counts if it has to last 5 years.

$800 is a tough budget to work with if you have to buy a case and a monitor, but it can be done.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

MKmods said:


> well I like AMD, but there are a lot that like Intel. Shadows build is AMD also. I think right now you get more for the money with AMD/ ATI.
> 
> And you could save a bit of $$ by buying one of Shadows 4830s (very good cards)
> 
> Also are you gonna use XP, Vista 32 or 64bit? If you use the 64bit than get 4 gigs if not you only need 2 gigs of memory.



I'm probably going to stick with XP, if not then I'll run with a 32bit. (I'm eagerly awaiting Windows 7, once it's officially released I'm using KillDisk to wipe my drive!) As for Shadow's card, I'm not too sure; but I promise I will heavily consider it!



Wile E said:


> If 5years is how long it must last, I suggest going with a quad core, not a tri-core. I would also suggest grabbing an Intel quad over an AMD, as the Intel's are a hair faster, and OC a touch better if you grab a 45nm version. Not by much, but every little bit counts if it has to last 5 years.
> 
> $800 is a tough budget to work with if you have to buy a case and a monitor, but it can be done.



It doesn't necessarily have to last 5 years, because I might be upgrading the parts every now and then. (This is why I want a custom built, so I can easily upgrade the parts, and get some experience along the way. This way I don't have to keep buying prebuilt systems from ripoff stores like Best Buy.)

As for the $800 budget, I COULD squeeze in a little more, but I know I sure as hell won't be playing any insane games like Cod4 or Crysis.)


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## MKmods (Mar 5, 2009)

COD4 is a mid level game, Crysis even kills $3K comps..

Shadows card with a 20" LCD would play COD4 on high settings.

Maybe take a look at the AM3 Mobos (more future proof for AMD) with Shadows 720 or a 940 CPU.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128378
One nice thing about the Gigabyte mobos is their onboard sound is VERY good 9that will save you a bit by not buying a sound card)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231178


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## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

MKmods said:


> COD4 is a mid level game, Crysis even kills $3K comps..
> 
> Shadows card with a 20" LCD would play COD4 on high settings.
> 
> ...



See how amateur I am? I don't even know what a high level game is, probably because I don't play them that much. I just want one that will allow me to run low-mid level games, and futureproof the computer too!

My cousin's girlfriend's brother owns a company that sells computer parts even cheaper than Newegg, I think he said that either the company sells Newegg it's parts, or the company buys from Newegg in bulk and sells it for cheaper. (He built his quad core comp with a 23/24 wide screen, all for around $800.)

Right now, I've been told that Shadow's suggestion, the 4870 HD would be great for OCing IF I go AMD. But someone, I can't really check right now, said that Intel's quad core are better for OCing.

-Lost-


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## MKmods (Mar 5, 2009)

One of the good things about TPU is there are MANY good people here that can help you a lot.

If you got the DDR3 mobo and memory, and Shadows card and the PS and 720 CPU he recommended with a 20" LCD that would be a very nice gaming comp.

One other good thing is as you gained more experience you could pick up another 4830 and run them in Crossfire for even crazier graphics.

Forget about OCing for right now..just focus on a simple but efficient build till you gain experience.
(there is absolutely no reason to OC a 4870, its a killer card the way it is, just like the 4850 and 4830s)


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## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

Well, if incremental upgrades are the plan, it's hard to say what the right way to go is. Both AMD and Intel have screwed consumers with socket changes.

Intel is probably going to transition to a new socket in the next year or so, so if upgrading the cpu is a consideration, AMD may be the better bet, But then again, by the time you are ready to swap cpus, you may need or want to swap mobos anyway.

Tough call really.

Shadowfold has a nice build going there, but I would rather have an AM3 board and DDR3 at this point, just to keep future options more open.

Downgrade the video card to a 4830 to get the extra money to upgrade to AM3 and DDR3.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

What exactly is crossfire***


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## MKmods (Mar 5, 2009)

Crosshair is an Asus motherboard.. Crossfire is using 2 or more ATI video cards to improve graphics.
http://game.amd.com/us-en/crossfirex_about.aspx

When using Nvidia based cards its called SLI.

dont worry so much about that right now, just focus on the basics.


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## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> What exactly is crosshair!! T_T



It's a Mobo model.

At any rate, can you get your PC parts from the cheaper place? If so, an Intel quad build is the way to go.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

Wile E said:


> It's a Mobo model.
> 
> At any rate, can you get your PC parts from the cheaper place? If so, an Intel quad build is the way to go.



I'm not sure, but my cousin did get all his parts from his future brother-in-law's company, and it wasn't because of a discount either. 

If I bump my budget up to $1000, how much more promising would my gaming rig look?


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## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I'm not sure, but my cousin did get all his parts from his future brother-in-law's company, and it wasn't because of a discount either.
> 
> If I bump my budget up to $1000, how much more promising would my gaming rig look?



Much more promising. lol.


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## DaveK (Mar 5, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> And don't be intimidated by building one. I'm 16 right now and I can do this stuff with a blindfold on.



Yup, I just turned 17 when I built my first rig, I should have done it like 2 years ago. It's actually not that hard though there can be complications, usually software crap. A lot of people are afraid of building their own computers in fear of something blowing up or not going right, but just follow some simple tips and take it slow, you'll get it. I built my rig on a measly €340 budget (about $430), it helps to use parts from your old computer like DVD Drive, hard-drive, monitor, keyboard/mouse and so on. It also helps if you buy some parts used to get them a bit cheaper.

Ask around and see if you can get some parts free, my mam used to work in an office and they got rid of their old PCs, my mam got one and it had an 80GB hard-drive in it which I'm using now.

Anything else you will be doing with the PC besides gaming? Video or photo editing? 3D modeling? Will you be doing any DVD ripping or playing BluRay or HD-DVD movies? Do you listen to much music?

It helps to know what you do, so if you played games but have a lot of movies and music you would probably want a large hard-drive, but if you just gamed and had some music you wouldn't need one as big and could go cheaper and spend the extra money on something else.


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## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

Welcome to TPU! I agree with everything the Others are saying. As for a Cpu A nice AMD Phenom II Quad would do you well, Also An Intel Core I7 would be just as Good. If you dont plan on doing much over clocking Look into a Phenom II 920 If you do want to Overclock A Phenom 940 Black Editon is what you want. Also If this is your first time building a P.C You should Start a Project Log HERE:http://forums.techpowerup.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18, It Enables us to Help you along the way.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

DaveK said:


> Yup, I just turned 17 when I built my first rig, I should have done it like 2 years ago. It's actually not that hard though there can be complications, usually software crap. I built my rig on a measly €340 budget (about $430), it helps to use parts from your old computer like DVD Drive, hard-drive, monitor, keyboard/mouse and so on. It also helps if you buy some parts used to get them a bit cheaper.
> 
> Ask around and see if you can get some parts free, my mam used to work in an office and they got rid of their old PCs, my mam got one and it had an 80GB hard-drive in it which I'm using now.
> 
> ...



Watch movies, yes. Download movies, also yes!

As for DVD ripping/HD-DVD playing, not much. I don't really like music, and I don't have any songs on my computer!



xRevengEx said:


> Welcome to TPU! I agree with everything the Others are saying. As for a Cpu A nice AMD Phenom II Quad would do you well, Also An Intel Core I7 would be just as Good. If you dont plan on doing much over clocking Look into a Phenom II 920 If you do want to Overclock A Phenom 940 Black Editon is what you want. Also If this is your first time building a P.C You should Start a Project Log HERE:http://forums.techpowerup.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18, It Enables us to Help you along the way.



Dear GOD, I knew that Core i7's were pricey, but I had no idea they were in the thousands...


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## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Watch movies, yes. Download movies, also yes!
> 
> As for DVD ripping/HD-DVD playing, not much. I don't really like music, and I don't have any songs on my computer!
> 
> ...



There is A Core I7 920 that is alot cheaper your looking at the Extreame Editon..Here you go:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202


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## DaveK (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Watch movies, yes. Download movies, also yes!
> 
> As for DVD ripping/HD-DVD playing, not much. I don't really like music, and I don't have any songs on my computer!



Movies, cool. Personally, I will be getting a 1TB Samsung drive as soon as I get the money, then I'm going to copy all my DVDs to ISO format then just mount them using Daemon tools so I just select the ISO file which is an exact copy of the disc and it plays as if I put the DVD in my computer but it's being played from the hard-drive. Advantages are no loud disc noises, no disc loading times and being lazy and not having to go get the disc 

If you plan on doing that, I suggest a 1TB drive if you have a lot of movies.


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## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

My suggestion for a $1000 build:

(links in the same order as picture)

Total is $972 and change.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136152
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136074
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236056
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231184
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.163933


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## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> There is A Core I7 920 that is alot cheaper your looking at the Extreame Editon..Here you go:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202



Phew, thanks! I figured I was looking at the wrong thing. I'm not sure how much further I can stretch my budget. (I have a LOT more than just 800-1000 to spend, but I'm not looking to spend more than that.)



Wile E said:


> My suggestion for a $1000 build:
> 
> (links in the same order as picture)
> 
> Total is $972 and change.



Is there a case and monitor included? =[ If not, I will consider this, but it will be looow on my list of choices.


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## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

DaveK said:


> Movies, cool. Personally, I will be getting a 1TB Samsung drive as soon as I get the money, then I'm going to copy all my DVDs to ISO format then just mount them using Daemon tools so I just select the ISO file which is an exact copy of the disc and it plays as if I put the DVD in my computer but it's being played from the hard-drive. Advantages are no loud disc noises, no disc loading times and being lazy and not having to go get the disc
> 
> If you plan on doing that, I suggest a 1TB drive if you have a lot of movies.



lol. I already have 2.5TB filled because of movies, and another 1TB drive on the way. I feel your pain. haha.


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## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Phew, thanks! I figured I was looking at the wrong thing. I'm not sure how much further I can stretch my budget. (I have a LOT more than just 800-1000 to spend, but I'm not looking to spend more than that.)



Than Get A Phenom II 940 cheaper than the I7 and hardly a difference when you overclock here man :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471


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## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> Than Get A Phenom II 940 cheaper than the I7 and hardly a difference when you overclock here man :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471



I beg to differ. The i7 is way faster than a Phenom II. You can overclock an i7 just as you can a PII. It's faster than a PII, hands down.

If we are lifting the budget to say around $1200, an i7 is a great idea, but to get it under that, you'll be sacrificing graphics power, that's where Yorkfield and PII come in. Trading cpu power for graphical power. It all depends on priorities.


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## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

Wile E said:


> I beg to differ. The i7 is way faster than a Phenom II. You can overclock an i7 just as you can a PII. It's faster than a PII, hands down.
> 
> If we are lifting the budget to say around $1200, an i7 is a great idea, but to get it under that, you'll be sacrificing graphics power, that's where Yorkfield and PII come in. Trading cpu power for graphical power. It all depends on priorities.



Define way faster? I know its faster but does this guy really seem like he is going to care? To me it seems as if he is wanting to build a Nice Fast Pc for as Cheap as he can. He does not seem like the Benchmarking Freak like most of us are. Im not saying you are wrong by any means I'm just stating My own Opinion.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

I feel like I'm constantly increasing my budget. Curse myself, I told myself that I wouldn't blow over $1200 before I made post #1 haha.
Okay, so my worst nightmare happened. After almost 2 pages of contributions from everyone, I'm just as lost as I was before I came to TPU.
I noticed that Shadow's graphics card was 512mb, whereas Wile E's was 1gb. What exactly does that mean, and what are the differences?



xRevengEx said:


> Define way faster? I know its faster but does this guy really seem like he is going to care? To me it seems as if he is wanting to build a Nice Fast Pc for as Cheap as he can. He does not seem like the Benchmarking Freak like most of us are. Im not saying you are wrong by any means I'm just stating My own Opinion.



You are correct, I do want an affordable gaming PC. I have no idea what benchmarking means at all, all I know is that I'm a cheapass and I want the most for every penny I'm spending!


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I feel like I'm constantly increasing my budget. Curse myself, I told myself that I wouldn't blow over $1200 before I made post #1 haha.
> Okay, so my worst nightmare happened. After almost 2 pages of contributions from everyone, I'm just as lost as I was before I came to TPU.
> I noticed that Shadow's graphics card was 512mb, whereas Wile E's was 1gb. What exactly does that mean, and what are the differences?
> 
> ...



Than take My Advice and get a PII. I know benchmarking does not matter to you. the I7 is a great CPU but its alittle more than a Phenom II Bang for buck= Phenom II.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> Define way faster? I know its faster but does this guy really seem like he is going to care? To me it seems as if he is wanting to build a Nice Fast Pc for as Cheap as he can. He does not seem like the Benchmarking Freak like most of us are. Im not saying you are wrong by any means I'm just stating My own Opinion.



For 5 years of use, there's a big difference. Any little advantage now will be a huge one in a few years time.



Bokteelo said:


> I feel like I'm constantly increasing my budget. Curse myself, I told myself that I wouldn't blow over $1200 before I made post #1 haha.
> 
> Okay, so my worst nightmare happened. After almost 2 pages of contributions from everyone, I'm just as lost as I was before I came to TPU.
> 
> I noticed that Shadow's graphics card was 512mb, whereas Wile E's was 1gb. What exactly does that mean, and what are the differences?



More video memory for better future proofing. Games are taking more and more video memory these days.


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

Wile E said:


> For 5 years of use, there's a big difference. Any little advantage now will be a huge one in a few years time.
> 
> In 5+ Years He will more than likely want something new anywise. I agree with you Wile E, the I7 is very Fast..but is the Phenom II not? most batches of chips can hit around 4 and ive seen over 4. For what this guy is using it for he would be fine with either, I'm just giving him the Cheapest solution.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

To sum up, for $800, go with something like Shadowfold's build, but get DDR3 ram, and an AM3 motherboard instead.

For around $1000, go with the build I posted.

For more than that, go Core i7, no ifs, ands, or buts.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

Okay, so my gfx card is set on the Radeon HD 4870 w/ Crossfire support! That's settled! Now I just need to decide on... EVERYTHING ELSE.

=[

Edit: (With 1mb video memory, like the one in Wile E's rig!)


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Okay, so my gfx card is set on the Radeon HD 4870 w/ Crossfire support! That's settled! Now I just need to decide on... EVERYTHING ELSE.
> 
> =[



Good choice, you will be happy with a 4870


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> Wile E said:
> 
> 
> > For 5 years of use, there's a big difference. Any little advantage now will be a huge one in a few years time.
> ...



Most Yorkfields easily surpass 4Ghz on air, can be had for the same prices as a PII X4 build, yet are still a tiny bit faster per clock. In everything but the bottom end, Intel is the better buy.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Okay, so my gfx card is set on the Radeon HD 4870 w/ Crossfire support! That's settled! Now I just need to decide on... EVERYTHING ELSE.
> 
> =[
> 
> Edit: (With 1mb video memory, like the one in Wile E's rig!)


Ok, how much for the rest of the rig?

Ooops, double post. Sorry.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

Wile E said:


> Most Yorkfields easily surpass 4Ghz on air, can be had for the same prices as a PII X4 build, yet are still a tiny bit faster per clock. In everything but the bottom end, Intel is the better buy.



So the Intel Core 2 Q9550 can go over 4ghz on air, but does it OC just as good with the HD 4870 1mb compared to the PII Black Ed? I don't really know what I'm saying, so if I get a yes, then it's a yes! If it's a no, it's a no.

How does this: 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041
Compare to this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471
In overall performance and overclocking potential on air w/ the HD 5870?



Wile E said:


> Ok, how much for the rest of the rig?
> Ooops, double post. Sorry.



Okay, well let's just say that the HD 4870 1mb is 190, since I do get a rebate. I'll cough up to... let's say... 700-800 for the rest.


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> So the Intel Core 2 Q9550 can go over 4ghz on air, but does it OC just as good with the HD 4870 1mb compared to the PII Black Ed? I don't really know what I'm saying, so if I get a yes, then it's a yes! If it's a no, it's a no.



HAHAHAHAA  Really they should be fine together. I always Run AMD with AMD though But thats just My own preference.


----------



## HammerON (Mar 5, 2009)

Don't forget the cost of an OS~

Vista Ulitmate 64-bit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116493

Vista Ultimate 32-bit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116490

Vista Home 64-bit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116488

Vista Home 32-bit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116485

XP Professional w/ SP3 32-bit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116513

XP Home w/ SP3 32-bit
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116511


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> HAHAHAHAA  Really they should be fine together. I always Run AMD with AMD though But thats just My own preference.



Hm, I'm still gearing towards this processor though:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471

I'm not sure if it's worse/on par/better than the Q9550 though.



HammerON said:


> Don't forget the cost of an OS~
> 
> Vista Ulitmate 64-bit
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116493
> ...



I still have my XP SP2 CD that came with my sister's pre-built computer! (Not sure if it's legit though, we bought that PC ages ago from a private store, I've never used it on a second computer though, does it work on more than 1?)


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> So the Intel Core 2 Q9550 can go over 4ghz on air, but does it OC just as good with the HD 4870 1mb compared to the PII Black Ed? I don't really know what I'm saying, so if I get a yes, then it's a yes! If it's a no, it's a no.
> 
> How does this:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041
> ...



Go for it man!


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> Go for it man!



Your smilies always slap a smile on my face! 

Anyway, so which CPU do I go for? PII BE or Q9550?!?!


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Your smilies always slap a smile on my face!
> 
> Anyway, so which CPU do I go for? PII BE or Q9550?!?!



Really its up to you, Some Will say Intel, some will Say AMD. If I was you I would go AMD, But thats just me. They are both Great CPUs


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

The 9550 will OC further than an Phenom II X4 on air if paired with a good mobo. P45 mobos tend to clock high, that's why I suggested one. 4GHz is as simple as a board that can do 470FSB.

A PII X4 Black Edition doesn't need quite as good of a mobo, because you can raise it's multiplier instead of raising the FSB on the board. Most I've seen get to 3.6-3.8 or so on air, stable and safe. Any clocks you see higher than that, are likely not on safe voltages.


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

Well Im out for the night If you need anything else Bokteelo just Pm me Ill be back on tomorrow. Wile E is a good guy he will help you some more.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> Really its up to you, Some Will say Intel, some will Say AMD. If I was you I would go AMD, But thats just me. They are both Great CPUs



I think I'll go for the PII X4, since it's cheaper. I'm not sure though, Wile E said that the Q9550 is "way" better! I don't know how much better, and if that small amount of cash will make a large difference, I'll go for the Q9550.

I was told that Black Edition CPUs eat power like a baby in a candy shop! How is that compared to the Q9550?



Wile E said:


> The 9550 will OC further than an Phenom II X4 on air if paired with a good mobo. P45 mobos tend to clock high, that's why I suggested one. 4GHz is as simple as a board that can do 470FSB.
> 
> A PII X4 Black Edition doesn't need quite as good of a mobo, because you can raise it's multiplier instead of raising the FSB on the board. Most I've seen get to 3.6-3.8 or so on air, stable and safe. Any clocks you see higher than that, are likely not on safe voltages.



Okay, so for around 60 more dollars, I can get the Q9550 that will OC better, and at a safer voltage.



xRevengEx said:


> Well Im out for the night If you need anything else Bokteelo just Pm me Ill be back on tomorrow. Wile E is a good guy he will help you some more.



I won't PM you, I know you'll be nice enough to check back here and drop some more advice! =D


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

Wile E said:


> The 9550 will OC further than an Phenom II X4 on air if paired with a good mobo. P45 mobos tend to clock high, that's why I suggested one. 4GHz is as simple as a board that can do 470FSB.
> 
> A PII X4 Black Edition doesn't need quite as good of a mobo, because you can raise it's multiplier instead of raising the FSB on the board. Most I've seen get to 3.6-3.8 or so on air, stable and safe. Any clocks you see higher than that, are likely not on safe voltages.



I just wanted to note that both CPUs are still very good. You'll sacrifice a little CPU performance by going with the X4, but you'll likely be able to save a few dollars on the mobo (if you don't decide to go AM3, which could backfire in terms of upgrades), and it should be easier to clock in terms of number of adjustments that need to be made. If you do go AM3 instead of AM2+ on the mobo, the prices won't really be that much different.

As far as games, you'll be hard pressed to tell the difference between a PII X4 at 3.8GHz, and a 9550 at 4GHz. But doing things like video encoding will show a noticeable difference.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

Sorry for the double post again, but on that note, it's 4AM here. I need to get to bed. i'll check back on this again tomorrow.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

Wile E said:


> I just wanted to note that both CPUs are still very good. You'll sacrifice a little CPU performance by going with the X4, but you'll likely be able to save a few dollars on the mobo (if you don't decide to go AM3, which could backfire in terms of upgrades), and it should be easier to clock in terms of number of adjustments that need to be made. If you do go AM3 instead of AM2+ on the mobo, the prices won't really be that much different.
> 
> As far as games, you'll be hard pressed to tell the difference between a PII X4 at 3.8GHz, and a 9550 at 4GHz. But doing things like video encoding will show a noticeable difference.



Okay, so both CPUs are good. If I go with the X4, I'll save some money on the motherboard, but in order to future proof my computer I think I'm going to go with AM3. This way, prices will be the same with the X4 + AM3 OR the Q9550 with whatever motherboard Wile E mentioned. 

BUT, the X4+AM3 won't OC as well but it will be easier, whereas Intel might screw me over and upgrade to a new socket soon, so I probably won't be able to incrementally upgrade.

Edit1: As for memory... isn't memory just memory? What's the difference between all the brands out there, I just don't understand.

Edit2: I remember that someone suggested going with DDR3 memory, the latency of DDR3 is better than DDR1/2, but what exactly is latency? And what is the difference between DDR2 and DDR3???

Edit3: If I plan on OCing, wouldn't I need a heatsink? I was told never to trust stock things, so yeah...! Anybody know of a good heatsink? (These questions are mainly directed to Shadow and Wile, because they put together a rig for me within the proper price ranges, but anybody can answer these!)

Edit4: The differences between these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145214
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231184
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184
are? I know that the XMS memory is cheaper, but what's the big difference? And is Corsair better or is the one Wile mentioned better?

Edit5: If I'm going to pay almost $300 for the Q9550, why not pay around the same for a Core i7?



Wile E said:


> The 9550 will OC further than an Phenom II X4 on air if paired with a good mobo. P45 mobos tend to clock high, that's why I suggested one. 4GHz is as simple as a board that can do 470FSB.
> 
> A PII X4 Black Edition doesn't need quite as good of a mobo, because you can raise it's multiplier instead of raising the FSB on the board. Most I've seen get to 3.6-3.8 or so on air, stable and safe. Any clocks you see higher than that, are likely not on safe voltages.



Wile, would the Phenom II X4 OC better paired with a better mobo? I'm afraid Intel will release a new socket soon, and my rig will be rendered almost useless in a couple of years. (Unless AMD will release a new socket within the next 1-2 years too, then it'd be pointless to even bother deciding between the two, since Intel would be the obvious pick.)


----------



## Tech9 (Mar 5, 2009)

just get a e5200, and a p43/p45 board, they're really cheap nowadays, so that you can get a really good gfx, you won't regret it.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

Tech9 said:


> just get a e5200, and a p43/p45 board, they're really cheap nowadays, so that you can get a really good gfx, you won't regret it.



Is the ATi Radeon HD 4870 1MB not good enough?


----------



## DarkMatter (Mar 5, 2009)

Well, I haven't read all the posts (left after 1st page), because it's boring , sorry. I have read a bit here and there though, and I have to agree with many of th things that I have read so far. This is just like a *+1* to other suggestions I guess, though there are some of mine.

- Between Intel/AMD I would go AMD if you want your PC to last some time and upgrade it along the way, AM3 socket of course. Only cheap Intels are for the already dying socket 775, so upgrading options would be more limited.
- take a good case and PSU, though they don't have to be expensive. I've seen some good suggestions there.
- take your time, when building, when overclocking and when buying, give it time to find good deals.
- if for gaming give more importance to the graphics card than other parts. more than 512MB or vram.
- i'm afraid of this suggestion, but I wouldn't buy expensive OC RAM yet and would try to find a high multiplier CPU instead and lowering the RAM multiplier if required. i.e buying 800 Mhz RAM, set the multiplier to make it 667 Mhz and Overclock from there, it's not until high OCs where ram speed starts to matter enough. Think that in 1-2 years when you will really need the higher OCs, you could still buy better RAM, and probably after that purchase you would have spent the same ammount of cash as if you had purchased the fast one in the first place, plus you would keep the old ones for whatever you want. Hardware prices DO evolve that way.
- I would go with a quad core CPU.

Hope this helps, although probably everything had been said already. 

EDIT: OH and BTW I too thought a CPU engineer had joined TPU and was looking for help in creating an indie CPU Company or something like that.


----------



## Fleck (Mar 5, 2009)

*'Looking to build a CPU'*

lulz!


----------



## crtecha (Mar 5, 2009)

Fleck said:


> *'Looking to build a CPU'*
> 
> lulz!



I'm soo used to work people that I didnt even notice that.  


welcome and enjoy tpu.  Honestly I dont worry about OC'in causeing hardware failure.  I've been running my cpu oc'd from 2.4 to 3.2 with no issues for months.  I personally buy hardware kind of frequently due to the fact that i have a "its not good enough theres something better out there" attitude.  As long as your watch your volts and keep a eye on your temos you should be golden. and you can set temps in your bios for shut off points.  Its one of those at your own risk deals but its well worth it and I dont think you'll regret it.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

DarkMatter said:


> Well, I haven't read all the posts (left after 1st page), because it's boring , sorry. I have read a bit here and there though, and I have to agree with many of th things that I have read so far. This is just like a *+1* to other suggestions I guess, though there are some of mine.
> 
> - Between Intel/AMD I would go AMD if you want your PC to last some time and upgrade it along the way, AM3 socket of course. Only cheap Intels are for the already dying socket 775, so upgrading options would be more limited.
> - take a good case and PSU, though they don't have to be expensive. I've seen some good suggestions there.
> ...



Okay, so just average memory will manage. I guess I'll end up going for the PII X4 BE w/ an AM3 mobo to max out my computer's potential. (I'm not sure though, I'm still deciding between the PII X4 BE, Q9550, and Core i7.) I suddenly decided to go Intel because of this thread: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=87164

Anyway!!! As of now, this is what I have in mind:

CPU & Mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358

Gfx:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.163933

Memory:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184 (I might switch it up for some Corsair Dominator, still waiting for more answers regarding my memory questions.)

Hard Drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136320 (Might get a second, but I'm sure 500 GB is enough room for now.)

PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

Thermal Compound:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007

Cooling:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023&Tpk=Xigmatek HDT-S1284EE (Can I have two of them?)

So what I have now is around $680. Not bad! I have most of the expensive stuff down, I guess I'll have to throw out a couple more hundred for the rest. (Case, heatsink, efficient fans, etc.)


----------



## ShadowFold (Mar 5, 2009)

Everything looks good. I still say Phenom II x3 + 790GX. Cheaper and the performance wouldn't make much of a difference in games.

Don't forget the other stuff..
LG DVD Drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136152
Corsair 550w PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004
Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147075

And yes you will want a bad ass cooler for overclocking
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023&Tpk=Xigmatek HDT-S1284EE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233030&Tpk=Xigmatek


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

Morning Shadow! Would a 550w PSU be enough?

You probably have your reasons for sticking with the Phenom II x3 + 790 GX, but I'm not too sure about the tri core, I'm leaning more towards a quad. (Wile said that the Q9550 is great, so yeah why not?)

Why should I get the Q9550 and not the cheapest i7? The prices are around the same.

Does the LG DVD drive burn CDs?

Also, can I have 2 CPU coolers? (Would the case you mentioned have slots/holes for it?) And as for the case, why not one that's a little better for airflow? Have any suggestions? I'll be willing to spit out maybe 50-75 for a better case if it'll drop my temp by around 5-10 C.

PS - Where can I get SATA cables? The hard drive I'm ordering is OEM, and I read that it doesn't come with cables so I'm going to need some!

Oh and will my rig have fancy lights like other custom built gaming computers?


----------



## DarkMatter (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Okay, so just average memory will manage. I guess I'll end up going for the PII X4 BE w/ an AM3 mobo to max out my computer's potential. (I'm not sure though, I'm still deciding between the PII X4 BE, Q9550, and Core i7.) I suddenly decided to go Intel because of this thread: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=87164
> 
> Anyway!!! As of now, this is what I have in mind:
> 
> ...



Those seem like good options to me.

Mind that Core i7 is expensive, chosing it would be like making a complete U turn, out from your first intentions IMHO, but if that's what you want go for it. You probably won't regret it.

I don't know the price for Dominators nowadays, I just know that I spent a lot more than what I would have spent for more modest memory and I'm far from reaching it's limits with the mild overclocks that I have done so far (~3.5Ghz only for testing). I bought them to make a big return into the overclocking world, but I ended up doing nothing. I like what the EPU SixEngine does to my PC regarding power consumption and noise and it's incompatible with OCing so I have my PC on stock most of the times anyway. 



ShadowFold said:


> Everything looks good. I still say Phenom II x3 + 790GX. Cheaper and the performance wouldn't make much of a difference in games.
> 
> Don't forget the other stuff..
> LG DVD Drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136152
> ...



Nice. Except: Corsair 650w - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005 - only $5 more, i think it's clear!!


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

DarkMatter said:


> Those seem like good options to me.
> 
> Mind that Core i7 is expensive, chosing it would be like making a complete U turn, out from your first intentions IMHO, but if that's what you want go for it. You probably won't regret it.
> 
> ...



Yeah, sure I'll pay another $5 for another 100w. So this is what it looks like right now:

CPU & Mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358

Gfx:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.163933

Memory:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184 (I might switch it up for some Corsair Dominator, still waiting for more answers regarding my memory questions.)

Hard Drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136320 (Might get a second, but I'm sure 500 GB is enough room for now.)

PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

Thermal Compound:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007

Cooling:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023&Tpk=Xigmatek HDT-S1284EE (Can I have two of them?)


----------



## r9 (Mar 5, 2009)

You killed me there You want to build a CPU and you are new to computers


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 5, 2009)

r9 said:


> You killed me there You want to build a CPU and you are new to computers



You guys will never let me live that down will you! 

r9.. you're Core 2 Duo E5200 is running at 4.8ghz?! Sweet!


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Is the ATi Radeon HD 4870 1MB not good enough?



A 4870 is an awesome card, it's one of ATIs best of course other than the 4870x2 which is what I own. The 4870 is fine


----------



## Silverel (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Yeah, sure I'll pay another $5 for another 100w. So this is what it looks like right now:
> 
> CPU & Mobo:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041
> ...



Sticking to 775 is wandering away from your future-proofing plans. Intel socket 1366 (Core i7/i5), or AMD socket AM3 (Phenom II) are the ones you would want for that.

i7
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130221

PII
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131366
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649

These are obviously going to perform much differently, but for their respective platforms each give the best price for performance. While the AMD will be easier to OC, the i7 will take you a whole lot further. Both platforms will be around a lot longer than the LGA775 or AM2, and I wouldn't build a new system on either.


----------



## AltecV1 (Mar 5, 2009)

get a E8400 it is good for gaming and its cheap!!you dont need a expensive quad core belive me,it would be just a waist of money+you could get a better GPU for yhat saved money


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> get a E8400 it is good for gaming and its cheap!!you dont need a expensive quad core belive me,it would be just a waist of money+you could get a better GPU for yhat saved money



Better GPU? A 1gb 4870 is fine for him.


----------



## AltecV1 (Mar 5, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> Better GPU? A 1gb 4870 is fine for him.



it is i didnt read all the posts.BUT NO QUAD.


----------



## DarkMatter (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> it is i didnt read all the posts.BUT NO QUAD.



In two years he might need.


----------



## Silverel (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> it is i didnt read all the posts.BUT NO QUAD.



You can go ahead and post a legitimate reason why. Statements don't help much without them.

Quads are the future, and in many cases the present. Games are more commonly becoming multi-threaded, and OS'es already are. If he's thinking of moving to Win7 when it releases, he will absolutely utilize a quad on a daily basis.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Okay, so both CPUs are good. If I go with the X4, I'll save some money on the motherboard, but in order to future proof my computer I think I'm going to go with AM3. This way, prices will be the same with the X4 + AM3 OR the Q9550 with whatever motherboard Wile E mentioned.
> 
> BUT, the X4+AM3 won't OC as well but it will be easier, whereas Intel might screw me over and upgrade to a new socket soon, so I probably won't be able to incrementally upgrade.
> 
> ...


If you go with an AM3 mobo, you need DDR3 ram. That's all that will go into an AM3 mobo.

If you go AM2+ or Intel socket 775, you can use DDR2 memory. Neither of these sockets may have much life left. They'll probably be supported for a couple more years at best.

You could go Core i7, but the boards worth buying are very expensive. In the $300 range, to be exact. Going Core i7 also requires DDR3 ram, preferably in a Triple Channel kit (aka: 3 sticks of memory). So a raise in budget may be needed.

So, if you take incremental cpu upgrades out of the equation (considering we don't really know what AMD or Intel's plans are past the next 2 years or so), the Intel Q9550 is the way to go.

If we want to try to maximize future upgrade potential for the cpu, AM3 or Core i7 is the way to go.

Some other things to consider:

Going with AMD or Socket 775 Intel forces you to choose a board that supports either Crossfire (ATI's multiple graphics card solution) *OR* SLI (nVidia's solution), not both. This limits your future graphics card choices.

Going with Core i7 allows you to use either Crossfire or SLI on the same board.

The path that has the highest upgrade potential is Core i7, followed by AM3, followed by AM2+ and S775.



Silverel said:


> You can go ahead and post a legitimate reason why. Statements don't help much without them.
> 
> Quads are the future, and in many cases the present. Games are more commonly becoming multi-threaded, and OS'es already are. If he's thinking of moving to Win7 when it releases, he will absolutely utilize a quad on a daily basis.


!00% correct. Going dual core defeats the purpose of trying to future proof as much as possible. My 4GHz quad smashes even 5Ghz dual cores in things like video encoding, and multi-threaded games like SupCom.


----------



## DarkMatter (Mar 5, 2009)

Wile E said:


> If you go with an AM3 mobo, you need DDR3 ram. That's all that will go into an AM3 mobo.



Since when? I've not been following AM3 related news or AMD related as a whole too much, but last time, AM3 would support both DDR2 and DDR3. When did this change??


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

DarkMatter said:


> Since when? I've not been following AM3 related news or AMD related as a whole too much, but last time, AM3 would support both DDR2 and DDR3. When did this change??



Been a while. The current AM3 boards are DDR3 only. AMD plans to drop DDR2 controllers in their cpus sometime this year or next, I seem to remember hearing as well. Welcome to the early days of S775. AMD is guilty of it as well.


----------



## AltecV1 (Mar 5, 2009)

DarkMatter said:


> In two years he might need.





Silverel said:


> You can go ahead and post a legitimate reason why. Statements don't help much without them.
> 
> Quads are the future, and in many cases the present. Games are more commonly becoming multi-threaded, and OS'es already are. If he's thinking of moving to Win7 when it releases, he will absolutely utilize a quad on a daily basis.



1:ther is NO real life benefits to them
2:QUADS ARE NOT THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!there will be 6 and 8 core cpu out in this year allready  then it is benefisial to update from 2 cores


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

The new AMD board the m4a79 from Asus supports DDR2/3 on the other hand the m4a79-t is only DDR3.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> 1:ther is NO real life benefits to them
> 2:QUADS ARE NOT THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!there will be 6 and 8 core cpu out in this year allready  then it is benefisial to update from 2 cores



Yes there is a real benefit to quads. I dare you to encode videos on a dual core as fast as a quad. I dare you to be able to multitask on a dual as much as a quad.

And the 6 and 8 core cpus may not be in his price range at first. If he buys a quad now, he can wait for the price drops on the 6-8 core cpus, whereas with a dual, he'd have to buy them sooner to maintain his performance level.

It's always best to buy the best components you can afford at the time of purchase.


----------



## DarkMatter (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> 1:ther is NO real life benefits to them
> 2:QUADS ARE NOT THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!there will be 6 and 8 core cpu out in this year allready  then it is benefisial to update from 2 cores



1. There IS in some games (try Supreme commander or Empires TW ha), and with higher-end cards there are overall higher.
2. And next year 16 and 32 the next. Conclusion: don't buy anything because there will always be something "better". You know, I love the fact you don't agree to Quads, because all their cores are not used in most games, but the other reason you give is that 6 and 8 cores are coming soon? That has no logic man.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> The new AMD board the m4a79 from Asus supports DDR2/3 on the other hand the m4a79-t is only DDR3.


Is that out yet? And that still doesn't change the fact that AMD will be moving to DDR3 only controllers on their chips. With the way prices on DDR3 have come down, it's probably best he just goes DDR3 if he plans to go AMD anyway.


----------



## Silverel (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> 1:ther is NO real life benefits to them
> 2:QUADS ARE NOT THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!there will be 6 and 8 core cpu out in this year allready  then it is benefisial to update from 2 cores



I was fairly certain that you didn't have anything reasonable. Thanks for visiting.


----------



## AltecV1 (Mar 5, 2009)

Wile E said:


> Yes there is a real benefit to quads. I dare you to encode videos on a dual core as fast as a quad. I dare you to be able to multitask on a dual as much as a quad.
> 
> And the 6 and 8 core cpus may not be in his price range at first. If he buys a quad now, he can wait for the price drops on the 6-8 core cpus, whereas with a dual, he'd have to buy them sooner to maintain his performance level.
> 
> It's always best to buy the best components you can afford at the time of purchase.



I said *real life*!!!!!! that guy is not encoding videos:shadedshu


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> 1:ther is NO real life benefits to them
> 2:QUADS ARE NOT THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!there will be 6 and 8 core cpu out in this year allready  then it is benefisial to update from 2 cores



Are you serious? Of course there is, if there is not I guess they would have never brought them to the market right? I think what darkmatter was getting at is the quads are the future for multicore processors, he never said that it will only be quads..yes 6 and 8 cores are in the near future but a quad will serve him well now. Alot of apps/games in the future will supper multicore as some do now. As wile E said test a dual vs a quad in multitasking video editing etc than tell me if there is a benefit.


----------



## AltecV1 (Mar 5, 2009)

im just helping a guy save some cash if you dont like that go *f* yourself:shadedshu


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## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> I said *real life*!!!!!! that guy is not encoding videos:shadedshu



Ummm, simply converting your DVDs or video files for use on a portable player is encoding, and COMPLETELY *real life* usage.

Quit trolling and leave this thread already, you have no credible arguments.


----------



## Silverel (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> im just helping a guy save some cash if you dont like that go *f* yourself:shadedshu



He has a budget, has goals, and a quad fits in both of those. You're not helping, you're pouting. We have nothing against people putting up good conversation 'round here, but if you can't contain your tantrums, we might not be the right place for you.


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## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> 1:ther is NO real life benefits to them
> 2:QUADS ARE NOT THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!there will be 6 and 8 core cpu out in this year allready  then it is benefisial to update from 2 cores





Wile E said:


> Is that out yet? And that still doesn't change the fact that AMD will be moving to DDR3 only controllers on their chips. With the way prices on DDR3 have come down, it's probably best he just goes DDR3 if he plans to go AMD anyway.


Yes I believe so..and yes moving to ddr3 would be a wise move...but he could do it later as well.


AltecV1 said:


> im just helping a guy save some cash if you dont like that go *f* yourself:shadedshu



No insults please, I understand you are trying to help as we are too. You cannot come
In here and say a quad has no advantages over a dual and not expect to get questioned.


----------



## AltecV1 (Mar 5, 2009)

im not suyig that they are not a step forward! i am mearly pointing out that the step is *VERY* littel!! SO ARE WE COOL?


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> im not suyig that they are not a step forward! i am mearly pointing out that the step is *VERY* littel!! SO ARE WE COOL?



Please go research a quad vs a dual than get back at us.


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## AltecV1 (Mar 5, 2009)

i have done my research *buddy*


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## ShadowFold (Mar 5, 2009)

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenomii_720_810_am3/14.htm
As you can see, in gaming CPU's don't really make a difference. I would MUCH rather have a HD 4870 X2 and a Phenom II 710 rather than a HD 4830 and a Core i7.


----------



## A Cheese Danish (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> i have done my research *buddy*



Apparently not.

But on topic: AMD Phenom II with DDR3 would be the better way for "future proofing". But if the funds aren't there, then he could always go with DDR2.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenomii_720_810_am3/14.htm
> As you can see, in gaming CPU's don't really make a difference. I would MUCH rather have a HD 4870 X2 and a Phenom II 710 rather than a HD 4830 and a Core i7.



Gaming isn't the only use for a computer. I'd much rather have the i7 and 4870 1GB.



A Cheese Danish said:


> Apparently not.
> 
> But on topic: AMD Phenom II with DDR3 would be the better way for "future proofing". But if the funds aren't there, then he could always go with DDR2.



No, the best way to future proof would be i7, followed by AM3.


----------



## DarkMatter (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> i have done my research *buddy*



Erm apparently no. 

http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i7-multigpu-sli-crossfire-game-performance-review/19

Yeah tri sli, but if you look at the rest of the article you'll see crossfire and more modest sli benefits a lot too. Single cards don't benefit so much, but they do benefit from quads, the higher in the performance stack, the more they benefit. And if he wants to go Crossfire in the future it will surely benefit from a Quad.

Also Ati cards do benefit more than Nvidia ones.


----------



## DarkMatter (Mar 5, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenomii_720_810_am3/14.htm
> As you can see, in gaming CPU's don't really make a difference. I would MUCH rather have a HD 4870 X2 and a Phenom II 710 rather than a HD 4830 and a Core i7.



And you linked the only game in that review that shows no gains with different CPUs. A game with a 2004 engine. But what about Crysis, FarCry2, Fallout 3 and COD5, for example?? Yeah is not that high the difference, but it will just get bigger and bigger with newer releases. And price of Quad vs Dual isn't that high neither.


----------



## r9 (Mar 5, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> You guys will never let me live that down will you!
> 
> r9.. you're Core 2 Duo E5200 is running at 4.8ghz?! Sweet!



Yes for 5 min


----------



## ShadowFold (Mar 5, 2009)

DarkMatter said:


> And you linked the only game in that review that shows no gains with different CPUs. A game with a 2004 engine. But what about Crysis, FarCry2, Fallout 3 and COD5, for example?? Yeah is not that high the difference, but it will just get bigger and bigger with newer releases. And price of Quad vs Dual isn't that high neither.



Look at the other games. Are you kidding me?


----------



## A Cheese Danish (Mar 5, 2009)

Wile E said:


> No, the best way to future proof would be i7, followed by AM3.



Notice I said better, not best  But yes, it would be i7, however i thought the majority was pointing towards AMD for this guy...?


----------



## Wile E (Mar 5, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> Look at the other games. Are you kidding me?



That doesn't matter. Games aren't the only thing a computer is used for. He himself admitted he's not the most avid gamer. It would be better for him to spend more on cpu right now, then worry more about gfx power when he does become more avid.



A Cheese Danish said:


> Notice I said better, not best  But yes, it would be i7, however i thought the majority was pointing towards AMD for this guy...?



I'm trying to show him all of his possible options, and their possible pitfalls or advantages.


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## DarkMatter (Mar 5, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> Look at the other games. Are you kidding me?



I HAVE looked at them that's why I said. 

EDIT: Huh it was Bioshock and not FC2 who benefited from 4 cores and specially Core i7, but still.


----------



## RevengE (Mar 5, 2009)

AltecV1 said:


> i have done my research *buddy*



I don't think you have. Also gaming is not the only use for a computer as wile said. In the future he could get involved in more CPU intensive tasks. He might as well get one, no one knows what could happen in the future.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Woah, 40 posts when I got home!

I'm going to start reading them all now, and could anyone tell me why I'm NOT going with an i7? They're about 300$ aren't they?


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## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Woah, 40 posts when I got home!
> 
> I'm going to start reading them all now, and could anyone tell me why I'm NOT going with an i7? They're about 300$ aren't they?



The board is about $300 as well. Up to you, depends on your budget. We can easily spec you out a nice i7 build, but it will cost a bit more for the additional parts to go with it.


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## MKmods (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Woah, 40 posts when I got home!
> 
> I'm going to start reading them all now, and could anyone tell me why I'm NOT going with an i7? They're about 300$ aren't they?



they are a waste of money except for people that REALLY know how to push their comps...

Dont forget the $$$$ for the special i7 mobos...

Whats the point of a budget if you dont ever stick to it?


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## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Agreed..just get a Phenom II.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

MKmods said:


> they are a waste of money except for people that REALLY know how to push their comps...
> Dont forget the $$$$ for the special i7 mobos...
> Whats the point of a budget if you dont ever stick to it?



Oh, I get it now. I was wondering how expensive an i7 could've possibly been.




xRevengEx said:


> Agreed..just get a Phenom II.



If I run with an AM3, I'd need DDR3 memory right? And how much more would a 4870x2 cost me?


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## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

If you want to stick strictly to your budget, AM3 isn't a bad choice. If you would like to stretch the budget, and maximize future upgrade paths, i7 is where it's at.  And yes, you would need DDR3 for either platform.

And the 4870x2 would be a little over $200 more.


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## MKmods (Mar 6, 2009)

Its all fine and dandy to yak about OCing this and that but dont forget you are new to this (really new)
In 5 years ALL of our comps will be junk (even the i7 based ones will be junk, less junk but junk none the less)

Focus on a simple build that wont cost too much but will let you experiment with settings. The one Shadow recommended is very good, just tweak it a bit (AM3 mobo and 2 gigs of AM3 memory) Get rid of the 4870 and pop in a 4830 (there is absolutely no need for a 4870 with a 19" lcd)
The AMD 720 is an AWESOME deal for what you get, I messed up buying the AM3 810 quad instead of the 720 dont make the same mistake. 

Make sure you get a good PS so if/when you upgrade in the future you wont need to swap it out and be happy..


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## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

MKmods said:


> Its all fine and dandy to yak about OCing this and that but dont forget you are new to this (really new)
> In 5 years ALL of our comps will be junk (even the i7 based ones will be junk, less junk but junk none the less)
> 
> Focus on a simple build that wont cost too much but will let you experiment with settings. The one Shadow recommended is very good, just tweak it a bit (AM3 mobo and 2 gigs of AM3 memory) Get rid of the 4870 and pop in a 4830 (there is absolutely no need for a 4870 with a 19" lcd)
> Make sure you get a good PS so if/when you upgrade in the future you wont need to swap it out and be happy..


I disagree. The 4870 would prevent him from having to upgrade for much longer.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

I'll probably keep the rig I put together in the next month or two (I tend to wait to see if anything unexpected happens) until after my last year of high school or after my freshman year in college. Then I'll switch to a new build, which would be in about 3-4 years.

This is what I currently have: (After taking in all of your advice I decided to take a little extra time to decide between the CPU + mobo.)
PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
HD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319
Cooling - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023&Tpk=Xigmatek HDT-S1284EE

If I get the 4830x2, I'll have an edge over the 4870 for now, but if I go with the 4870 and wait a year or so to add another 4870, wouldn't THAT be better? I'll slap in an extra 4870 if I ever feel the need for it.


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## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Oh, I get it now. I was wondering how expensive an i7 could've possibly been.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



my 4870x2 was on sale when I got it for $430.00, it's now back up to $450.00. You could use either DDR2/3 with an m4a79 motherboard by asus if you were wanting to get a m4a79-t deluxe that's only DDR3.


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## MKmods (Mar 6, 2009)

Wile E said:


> I disagree. The 4870 would prevent him from having to upgrade for much longer.



He has a 19" lcd... if he had a 24 or bigger than fine. But with 1 of the 4830s he will be fine, and later on he has the option of another 4830 in Crossfire. 

He can easily sell the 4830 he has for about the same $ he paid (lol, try that with a 4870 in 6 mos) and pick up a newer card if he only wants a 1 card solution.

In 3 or 4 years you will think the 4870 is junk too...Anyone remember the 7900GTX? (cost over $500 and now a $60 card beats the crap out of it)
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTAwMSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA
from 3 years ago...


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## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm having a hard enough time trying to sell mine.. I just ended up getting refunds on them. No one wants 4830's it seems.


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## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

MKmods said:


> He has a 19" lcd... if he had a 24 or bigger than fine. But with 1 of the 4830s he will be fine, and later on he has the option of another 4830 in Crossfire.
> 
> He can easily sell the 4830 he has for about the same $ he paid (lol, try that with a 4870 in 6 mos) and pick up a newer card if he only wants a 1 card solution.



Or, he could just not have to worry about upgrading the 4870 for quite a few extra months over the 4830.


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## MKmods (Mar 6, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> I'm having a hard enough time trying to sell mine.. I just ended up getting refunds on them. No one wants 4830's it seems.


You are selling yours (mis matched pair) for almost the same as new at the egg.

Thats another reason to be careful with $$ right now.. Just wait to see what happens in a year or 2.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

This was a post given to me on a game forum:



Dfine said:


> Hey, the PC is looking good. I would do couple changes though.
> 
> * WD 640 AALS (black) is only few bucks more expensive than 500gb. Those 320gb(320x2=640) platters perform a little better than 250gb platters. Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - Internal Hard Drives
> 
> ...


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## MKmods (Mar 6, 2009)

lol, i give up


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## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

That guy doesn't know what he's talking about. And buying a Q9550 is silly. The 940 is cheaper and performs the same.
And on the power supply, the Corsair 550w is Seasonic. Not channelwell. Which is why I recommended the 550w over the 650w but it doesn't really matter.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Good, I trust you guys more! Anyway! I can't decide between these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023&Tpk=Xigmatek HDT-S1284EE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233029


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## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

The VX550's quality is exactly on par with Corsair's other PSUs. Channelwell has proven their reliability of their newer lines in spades. They OEM many of the top of the line PSUs out there now. They aren't as low a quality of OEM as they used to be.

And there's no sence in getting an nVidia card on a Crossfire board if you want to keep upgrade ability as an option.


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## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

1284EE if you go AMD for sure. The pipes make full contact with the IHS which keeps it really cool. I have one myself


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## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> That guy doesn't know what he's talking about. And buying a Q9550 is silly. The 940 is cheaper and performs the same.
> And on the power supply, the Corsair 550w is Seasonic. Not channelwell. Which is why I recommended the 550w over the 650w but it doesn't really matter.



The 550 is Channelwell, but read my previous post as to why that doesn't matter.


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## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

Oh I thought the 750 and 550 were Seasonic..


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Stop arguing in your comptalk and speak English please! I'm quite lost here.


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## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Give him a break he's really new to this, he is just making sure he is getting his money worth. Get a phenom II.


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## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Stop arguing in your comptalk and speak English please! I'm quite lost here.



lol. OEM means Original Equipment Manufacturer. It just means that Channel Well Technologies actual builds the Corsair PSU. But it is built to Corsair's specifications based on a Channel Well design.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Is it possible to have 2 cooling fans? I want my computer to be as cool as f***ing possible! 

And thanks for telling me what OEM stood for!

Revenge, so the PII X4 BE would be the way to go huh. (I'm going to shove in the AM3 socket mobo, so  anybody have good recommendations for DDR3 RAM?)


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## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

Hard to find some good priced DDR3..
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148150
I heard that set clocks REALLY well.


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## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> Hard to find some good priced DDR3..
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148150
> I heard that set clocks REALLY well.



Or you can go for guaranteed speed for a few dollars more, like a 1600Mhz kit.

As an example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220331


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148150

Ouch, this will cost me another 25$! 

Thanks, I'll include this.

Edit: Oh crap now Wile E is back with something for me.

WHAT TO DO WHAT TO DO??

Edit2: Ouch, Wile E your memory is a lot pricier. D:


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## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

I think you should stick with DDR2 honestly.. I was gonna do DDR3 as well but it just doesn't seem worth it.


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Mar 6, 2009)

I couldn't agree more with the people telling you to go Phenom II 940BE. Right now newegg has a customer code to get an additional $10 off. (up through the 12th of March)
As for a motherboard, you'll end up paying a little extra for one that's PII ready, otherwise you might have to pick up a cheap Sempy (short for Semperon) to update the motherboard's bios.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> I think you should stick with DDR2 honestly.. I was gonna do DDR3 as well but it just doesn't seem worth it.



Hm... Is there a mobo that supports DDR2 AND DDR3 RAM?

And one more time! Can I have 2 cooling fans?

So what it looks like so far:


PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
HD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319
Cooling - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023&Tpk=Xigmatek HDT-S1284EE
CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471
MB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128377 
RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148150

So which memory and mobo am I going to be going for? I WANT to incrementally upgrade, but I don't absolutely need to. Only thing I'm going to upgrade is an extra 4870, I'll be satisfied with just that if nothing else is upgradeable.


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## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

Two fans on the Xigmatek? No. You don't need two tho. And yes there are some upcoming boards that do both but like I said DDR2 is fine.


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## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Hm... Is there a mobo that supports DDR2 AND DDR3 RAM?
> 
> And one more time! Can I have 2 cooling fans?



2 cooling fans for what?

And yes, there's an Asus board that supports both DDR2 and 3. It was posted earlier. It costs more than the other DDR3 boards tho, so it offsets the price of just going DDR3 to begin withh. Just grab the AM3 board, and the ram Shadow linked.

If you go with a DDR2 only board, you may as well just build the Q9550 setup, because you'll have to upgrade your board to upgrade your cpu down the road anyway.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

I've seen some gaming computers that have like, a billion fans. (Well, 2-3-4!) Like, 2 on the side, 1 on the top, something like that right? 

And crap, which exactly is the AM3 board? I'll never be able to figure which is which unless told by experienced professionals, so if possible could you go back a few pages?

What exactly is RAM latency? And setting clocks with RAM?

-Lost-


----------



## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I've seen some gaming computers that have like, a billion fans. (Well, 2-3-4!) Like, 2 on the side, 1 on the top, something like that right?
> 
> And crap, which exactly is the AM3 board? I'll never be able to figure which is which unless told by experienced professionals, so if possible could you go back a few pages?
> 
> ...


The more case fans you have, the cooler it will be. It will all depend on your case selection tho. You want at least 2 120mm fans on the case, 3 or 4 would be better, but not 100% needed in most cases.

We'll get to setting ram when you actually get it put together and have to worry about it. Until then, don't fuss about it too much.

I'd say this board for lower cost: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131366

Or this board for better Crossfire performance if you ever decide to go for 2 gfx cards: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128377

And like I said in my previous post in an edit, if you go with a DDR2 board on AMD, you may as well just get the Q9550 setup because you'll likely have to replace the board to upgrade the cpu in either case.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

So this is what I've got:

PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
HD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319
Cooling - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023&Tpk=Xigmatek HDT-S1284EE
CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471
MB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128377 
RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148150

Wile, let's put aside incremental upgrades aside from adding an extra HD 4870. What would be the best set up for NOW.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> So this is what I've got:
> 
> PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
> HD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319
> ...


I'd say a P45 board, high speed DDR2 ram, and a Q9550.


----------



## OzzmanFloyd120 (Mar 6, 2009)

Not really true, most of the current AM2+ boards are releasing bios updates to support AM3 and DDR3. I know that he doesn't know how to flash his bios, but if he's anything like anyone else who's ever joined this site he will know within a few months.


----------



## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

Lookin good man. HD 4870 1gb would be the best to get now. You can get another later when they are super cheap.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

OzzmanFloyd120 said:


> Not really true, most of the current AM2+ boards are releasing bios updates to support AM3 and DDR3. I know that he doesn't know how to flash his bios, but if he's anything like anyone else who's ever joined this site he will know within a few months.



AMD is dropping DDR2 support in their upcoming top of the line cpus. It was posted in their roadmap.


----------



## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

He has a 790X and DDR3 kit listed. I say go for that stuff.


----------



## OzzmanFloyd120 (Mar 6, 2009)

Wile E said:


> AMD is dropping DDR2 support in their upcoming top of the line cpus. It was posted in their roadmap.



I know this, but the 940 and upcoming 945 both support DDR2 still. If he gets a board that supports DDR2 and flashes the bios down the road he'll be all set to use DDR3.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

OzzmanFloyd120 said:


> Not really true, most of the current AM2+ boards are releasing bios updates to support AM3 and DDR3. I know that he doesn't know how to flash his bios, but if he's anything like anyone else who's ever joined this site he will know within a few months.



Isn't flashing the bios extremely dangerous?


----------



## bigtye (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I've seen some gaming computers that have like, a billion fans. (Well, 2-3-4!) Like, 2 on the side, 1 on the top, something like that right?
> 
> -Lost-



yes you can have lots of case fans. many cases come with 2x12cm fans (one in front and one in back) but have spots for mounting more. How many fans you fit, comes down to how many the case is designed to have. Also you must then have enough power to power them all. The psu's (power supply units) you are looking at, corsair/channel well, are both good so you should be fine within reason.

Also, when you have picked all your parts, post up here before you buy and ask people tol tell you if the parts won't work together.

As to AM3 boards, many websites list the board as AM3 or Am2+ in the description.

eg this australian site, see the mother board sub catagories

http://www.scorptec.com.au/computer/19/

Tye


----------



## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

OzzmanFloyd120 said:


> I know this, but the 940 and upcoming 945 both support DDR2 still. If he gets a board that supports DDR2 and flashes the bios down the road he'll be all set to use DDR3.



You can't use DDR3 in a DDR2 board. It's not pin compatible.


----------



## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

Oh he has a 940 listed  You need to get a Phenom II 720 BE if you are gonna do DDR3 man.
The 940 only works with DDR2.


----------



## OzzmanFloyd120 (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Isn't flashing the bios extremely dangerous?



Only if you're using a bios that some dude made himself in his parent's basement. If you download the official bios updates from your board's manufacturer you'll be fine as long as you follow the instructions.


----------



## OzzmanFloyd120 (Mar 6, 2009)

Wile E said:


> You can't use DDR3 in a DDR2 board. It's not pin compatible.



Really? I thought both were 240pin?

Sorry for my ignorance in the matter [embarrased]


----------



## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Anyone know if they are releasing an update for an M3a79-t for DDR3? Edit: nevermind I though by ozzmans posts they were.


----------



## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

The M3A79-T isn't physically capable of doing DDR3......


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> Oh he has a 940 listed  You need to get a Phenom II 720 BE if you are gonna do DDR3 man.
> The 940 only works with DDR2.



Okay... HUH???

So I need to downgrade my CPU to get it to work with an AM3? If that's the case, can I go AM3 w/ the Q9550? Or do I have to have a P45.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just throwing out terms out of memory.)


----------



## OzzmanFloyd120 (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Okay... HUH???
> 
> So I need to downgrade my CPU to get it to work with an AM3?



AMD is REALLY new to the DDR3 game (like they just released the technology three weeks ago) and not all of their CPUs are capable of it.
I still think you're better off with some low-latency PC8500 and the 940BE.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
HD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319
Cooling - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023&Tpk=Xigmatek HDT-S1284EE
CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471
MB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131368
RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184

So what MB and RAM do I go for now?! D:

Edit: So do you guys think to me waiting a month, maybe two, for AMD to release DDR3 compatible CPUs?


----------



## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131368
+
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184


----------



## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> The M3A79-T isn't physically capable of doing DDR3......


I edited and said nevermind.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131368
> +
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184



Does that board support AM2+ and AM3? If so, should I go for cheap DDR2 RAM right now and upgrade to DDR3 when they're even cheaper, or should I just go for DDR3 RAM right now? 

And how does that mboard OC? Edit: Mobos don't OC... right? Don't know what I think thinking!

Drives...:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136284
Or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319

They're both just ONE piece of hardware right?

I was just looking at LCDs, are integrated speakers recommended?


----------



## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Just get ddr2 for now.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Cool, so what I've got up there is fine. I just need a case and an LCD. (Speakers if the LCD doesn't have them integrated.)

What else am I missing on my rig? I just got my dad's credit card! =D


----------



## zithe (Mar 6, 2009)

OzzmanFloyd120 said:


> AMD is REALLY new to the DDR3 game (like they just released the technology three weeks ago) and not all of their CPUs are capable of it.
> I still think you're better off with some low-latency PC8500 and the 940BE.



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231211


----------



## ShadowFold (Mar 6, 2009)

The Xigmatek isn't going to fit with those tall ram sinks. The corsairs I linked do 1066mhz so.


----------



## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

I still think if you are going to go DDR2, it should be a Q9550 and a P45 board for a little extra. It will outperform the Phenom when both are OCed.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Wile E said:


> I still think if you are going to go DDR2, it should be a Q9550 and a P45 board for a little extra. It will outperform the Phenom when both are OCed.



Does the P45 support crossfire? I might add an extra HD 4870 in the near future.



ShadowFold said:


> The Xigmatek isn't going to fit with those tall ram sinks. The corsairs I linked do 1066mhz so.



Okay so what exactly do I need to change? D:

I was just looking at LCDs and speakers, the speakers can be cheap as hell I don't care, but I want a 24'' wide screen LCD. I found some for 200-300, but I'm not sure which are better. 

As for the case, I'll pay up to 60-70 for a good looking case with decent airflow. (Toss in some preinstalled fans if possible!)


----------



## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Any LCD with 1920x1200 res with a 2ms response time..examples of companys:Acer,viewsonic,asus.


----------



## zithe (Mar 6, 2009)

Those sticks I suggested should be really good for OCing.

Decent monitor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009125


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236033&Tpk=LCD 24'' Webcam

What about ^ for a monitor? It has a build in webcam!!! (The only thing bad about it is the contrast ratio, I've seen 8000:1, 5000:1, 3000:1, but this one is 1000:1 ASCR 3000:1)

What does ASCR 3000:1 mean?

Well I've narrowed it down to:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009125
And
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236033&Tpk=LCD 24'' Webcam






Wile E I took your advice and went with the Q9550. (As long as it supports crossfire.) What I have in the cart:

Speakers - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836113015
LCD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009125
HD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319
PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184
MB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358
CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041
Fan - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023
Case - ???

ShadowFold stated: The Xigmatek isn't going to fit with those tall ram sinks. The corsairs I linked do 1066mhz so.

Any solution?


----------



## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236033&Tpk=LCD 24'' Webcam
> 
> What about ^ for a monitor? It has a build in webcam!!! (The only thing bad about it is the contrast ratio, I've seen 8000:1, 5000:1, 3000:1, but this one is 1000:1 ASCR 3000:1)
> 
> What does ASCR 3000:1 mean?



That's the dynamic contrast. Manafacturers fudge contrast numbers. Most of the monitors in your price range likely have the same few panels. Manufacturers just add their own electronics and casings.

And 2ms doesn't matter either. It's also not a standardized measurement. You'd be hard pressed to see the difference between a 5ms and 2ms panel from decent manufacturers.

Both monitors you listed likely use the same panels, just get the one you prefer.

For shits and giggles, here's the one I'm thinking of buying. It has a top of the line H-IPS panel in it.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176104

And here is some info on the different types of LCD panels. (The ones you are considering are TN-Film, btw) http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm



Bokteelo said:


> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236033&Tpk=LCD 24'' Webcam
> 
> What about ^ for a monitor? It has a build in webcam!!! (The only thing bad about it is the contrast ratio, I've seen 8000:1, 5000:1, 3000:1, but this one is 1000:1 ASCR 3000:1)
> 
> ...


The Xigmatek fits in my AMD rig with heatspreaders that tall, and my mobo has the ram closer to the cpu than most I've seen. You should be fine.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Wile E said:


> That's the dynamic contrast. Manafacturers fudge contrast numbers. Most of the monitors in your price range likely have the same few panels. Manufacturers just add their own electronics and casings.
> 
> And 2ms doesn't matter either. It's also not a standardized measurement. You'd be hard pressed to see the difference between a 5ms and 2ms panel from decent manufacturers.
> 
> The Xigmatek fits in my AMD rig with heatspreaders that tall, and my mobo has the ram closer to the cpu than most I've seen. You should be fine.



I'm not sure which LCD to go for... the webcam is a real seller to me, but it might not be as good since it won't be adjustable.

Do you have a cool looking case you can recommend? I've been told to buy an Antec Lansing, and I've seen some good looking Xions; but I'm not too sure. I want one that has a good airflow, preinstalled fans if possible!


----------



## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I'm not sure which LCD to go for... the webcam is a real seller to me, but it might not be as good since it won't be adjustable.
> 
> Do you have a cool looking case you can recommend? I've been told to buy an Antec Lansing, and I've seen some good looking Xions; but I'm not too sure. I want one that has a good airflow, preinstalled fans if possible!



See my edit in my above post. There's a link to some good info on the different types of LCDs. Good read.

And how much do you want to spend on a case?


----------



## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I'm not sure which LCD to go for... the webcam is a real seller to me, but it might not be as good since it won't be adjustable.
> 
> Do you have a cool looking case you can recommend? I've been told to buy an Antec Lansing, and I've seen some good looking Xions; but I'm not too sure. I want one that has a good airflow, preinstalled fans if possible!



Look at coolermasters.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm looking to spend between 50-80 on a case, I already screwed over my so called budget, LOL!


----------



## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

Oh, forgot to ask, and do you like large cases, or smaller cases?


----------



## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I'm looking to spend between 50-80 on a case, I already screwed over my so called budget, LOL!



Okay than a mid tower is in your Price Range.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Wile E said:


> Oh, forgot to ask, and do you like large cases, or smaller cases?



Whatever can hold all my hardware spaciously. (Not too big though!)


----------



## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

BOOM! found one. Can't go wrong with Lian-Li, and this one has a 120mm exhaust and a 140mm intake fan.

And all for $70.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112192


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

I  you for finding me a Lian-Li, but could you find a better looking one? I'm sorry I didn't mention that sooner, if you can't find one that looks better, I'll go with the Lian Li!

Edit: The thing I love most about custom gaming rigs is the really nice looking case. xD


----------



## Wile E (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I  you for finding me a Lian-Li, but could you find a better looking one? I'm sorry I didn't mention that sooner, if you can't find one that looks better, I'll go with the Lian Li!



That's a matter of taste. I like plain. So I honestly don't know what you think looks good, but I'll show you how I found it. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010090007 4026&name=$50 - $75

Just click that, and scroll to find a few cases you like, and we'll tell you if it's worth buying or not, or if you need to buy a fan or 2 to throw in it.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Wile E said:


> That's a matter of taste. I like plain. So I honestly don't know what you think looks good, but I'll show you how I found it.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010090007 4026&name=$50 - $75
> 
> Just click that, and scroll to find a few cases you like, and we'll tell you if it's worth buying or not, or if you need to buy a fan or 2 to throw in it.



Well, I just want something that I can see the inside of, or has a fair amount of lights, yet very simple in areas such as the front and back. I don't want many colors, here's a few that I like. (I'm hoping for one that has 4-6 USB ports in the back.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811226029
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144026

Also, no doors in the front if possible, or at least have the power button accessible without opening a door.


----------



## Silverel (Mar 6, 2009)

The USB ports in the back are going to be dependant on your motherboard. The front USB ports are dependant on the case. Be careful not to get one that has a PSU included, typically they're just extra junk thrown in there to move supply.

Aside from that, have fun picking and choosing.


----------



## ChiSox (Mar 6, 2009)

Well your motherboard is whats goinf to decide how many USB ports you get...the case will supply the front usb ports.....The great oart about the Lian Li case is its STURDY alot of the lower priced cases are flimsy.... kinda like a 1969 Chevelle vs. a 1997 Geo Metro

But a side window is nice to have so you can gaze at your accomplishment

Good Luck with ur build


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

ChiSox has a great point about the side window, because that's exactly why I want a case like that. The Lian Li gives me the feeling that it's nice and sturdy, but I'd prefer to have a window.

How many ports would my MB give? I'll come back with the model in a bit.

Edit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358

That's the MB I'm going to be getting. By looks alone it seems as if it has around 4, maybe 6. Some people might not think highly of a computer case, but I feel that a reliable and durable case is very important for a custom computer, much like every other piece of ware that goes into a PC.

*Oh oh oh! If anybody would be kind enough, please check if I'll need to order any extra cables? I read in a review that OEM products don't come with cables! This is what I have so far, please remind me if I'm missing anything.*

LCD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009125
HD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319
PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184
GPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.163933
MB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358
CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041
Fan - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023
Case -
DVD - 
Speakers - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836113015
Headset - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00067AS2C/?tag=tec06d-20
Keyboard - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UHE8YM/?tag=tec06d-20
Mouse - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MF67VO/?tag=tec06d-20
Mouse Pad - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000E0TJL2/?tag=tec06d-20

I'm so excited to see my gaming rig finally come together. I thought about just buying the peripherals, but it didn't give me enough excitement!


----------



## ChiSox (Mar 6, 2009)

that board has 8!!!!!!


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

ChiSox said:


> that board has 8!!!!!!



AHAHA! Awesome! I knew it had a good amount, thought it was 6, 8 is just AWESOME!


----------



## ChiSox (Mar 6, 2009)

Ur board comes with a couple sata cables....by the way do you have a DVD Drive already or is that missing??


----------



## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> ChiSox has a great point about the side window, because that's exactly why I want a case like that. The Lian Li gives me the feeling that it's nice and sturdy, but I'd prefer to have a window.
> 
> How many ports would my MB give? I'll come back with the model in a bit.
> 
> ...



Where is your video card?


----------



## ChiSox (Mar 6, 2009)

> > Where is your video card?



DVD and GPU!! Without those you'll never get to install!!


----------



## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

ChiSox said:


> DVD and GPU!!



yeah I dont see either.


----------



## ChiSox (Mar 6, 2009)

This would be a great case for this ,,,,and you could go combo with a psu and save a few $$$ but the corsair is NICE!!


----------



## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

ChiSox said:


> This would be a great case for this ,,,,and you could go combo with a psu and save a few $$$ but the corsair is NICE!!



The 900 is pretty Nice..I had one Antec Case a long time ago and had no problems other than airflow.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Whoops, did I forget my GPU? I'm getting a HD 4870. Sec! 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.163933

Dear GOD... This will cost me a hell lot... I was wondering why it was under $1000, turns out I forgot my GPU.

Anybody recommend a good DVD drive?


----------



## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Whoops, did I forget my GPU? I'm getting a HD 4870. Sec!



Good job add that and a Dvd Rom and your set.


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> Good job add that and a Dvd Rom and your set.



Okay, so I'll be needing a case and a DVD drive... wow it's starting to look expensive. It'll be like $1500 after I'm done!


----------



## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Okay, so I'll be needing a case and a DVD drive... wow it's starting to look expensive. It'll be like $1500 after I'm done!



I told you to get a Phenom II its 219.00 at newegg and your not going to notice a difference between that and the Intel at least for what your using it for.


----------



## ChiSox (Mar 6, 2009)

I'll post a less expensive build(but equivalent) for u after I wake up my eyes are SHOT!!!


----------



## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> I told you to get a Phenom II its 219.00 at newegg and your not going to notice a difference between that and the Intel at least for what your using it for.



I'm going to slap together both the AMD build and the Intel build, then I'll ask around for about which build being better! Can the PII OC to 4.0 per core with the heatsink and cooling I have now?



ChiSox said:


> I'll post a less expensive build(but equivalent) for u after I wake up my eyes are SHOT!!!



If you can do that, I'll be sure to consider it!

*Intel Build:*

LCD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009125
HD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319
PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184
GPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.163933
MB - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358
CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041
Fan - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023
Case -
DVD - 

*AMD Build:*

LCD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009125
HD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319
PSU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005
RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184
GPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.163933
MB -  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131368
CPU - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471
Fan - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023
Case -
DVD - 



Speakers - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000PHW1UA/?tag=tec06d-20
Headset - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00067AS2C/?tag=tec06d-20
Keyboard - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000UHE8YM/?tag=tec06d-20
Mouse - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MF67VO/?tag=tec06d-20
Mouse Pad - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000E0TJL2/?tag=tec06d-20


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## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I'm going to slap together both the AMD build and the Intel build, then I'll ask around for about which build being better! Can the PII OC to 4.0 per core with the heatsink and cooling I have now?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You mean with the stock heatsink that comes with it?


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> You mean with the stock heatsink that comes with it?



That & the Xigmatek fan I have!


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## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> That & the Xigmatek fan I have!



You will need aftermarket for 4.0 or watercooling if you can get it over 4.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> You will need aftermarket for 4.0 or watercooling if you can get it over 4.



My goal is to run them up to 4.0 per core, do you have a recommended aftermarket heatsink?

You know, back 3-4 years ago, my friend's Dell computer had one core running at exactly 4.0. I'm not sure how he managed to get his CPU at that speed, it was insane.


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## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> My goal is to run them up to 4.0 per core, do you have a recommended aftermarket heatsink?



I Have an Asus Lion Square that I wont be using much longer once my watercooling and PII get here, I could sell it to you depending on how soon you are building your PC here is a Review: http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2290


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> I Have an Asus Lion Square that I wont be using much longer once my watercooling and PII get here, I could sell it to you depending on how soon you are building your PC here is a Review: http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2290



I checked it out, and it looks REALLY big. ShadowFold already mentioned how I might have a problem with the size of certain parts. Other than that, it looks like a fine heatsink; I will consider.


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## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I checked it out, and it looks REALLY big. ShadowFold already mentioned how I might have a problem with the size of certain parts. Other than that, it looks like a fine heatsink; I will consider.



It is big..are you getting a mid tower?


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

xRevengEx said:


> It is big..are you getting a mid tower?



I really don't know what size I want my case to be, I just want the case to be able to hold all my hardware, which would probably be mid to full tower. 

I'm actually hoping that Wile E could pick out a good case for me, he was in the midst of it but probably had to head to bed. Of course there are pros and cons to every case, and it's not that I'm lazy to read the reviews because I've read many, but I want an experienced person to pick it out for me. I'm mainly taking in the experience of building a computer, I'll learn about everything else in the near future.

*Edit: Moved wall of text to latest post.*


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Mar 6, 2009)

Your AMD build will probably be your better bet, since they're a current gen quad and OC to around 3.6Ghz on stock cooling. (you could probably hit 4Ghz once you really get the hang of what you're doing)
And hey! It'll save you about $25 to boot, you'll be able to spend that on a faster gfx card!

In either hand though I wouldn't get that ram. It will probably overclock to 1066mhz, but you're probably best off getting ram that runs that speed natively, and to be quite honest if you get that quad it will bottleneck the CPU if you don't OC the ram. I'd say you're best off getting PC8500.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

OzzmanFloyd120 said:


> Your AMD build will probably be your better bet, since they're a current gen quad and OC to around 3.6Ghz on stock cooling. (you could probably hit 4Ghz once you really get the hang of what you're doing)
> And hey! It'll save you about $25 to boot, you'll be able to spend that on a faster gfx card!
> 
> In either hand though I wouldn't get that ram. It will probably overclock to 1066mhz, but you're probably best off getting ram that runs that speed natively, and to be quite honest if you get that quad it will bottleneck the CPU if you don't OC the ram. I'd say you're best off getting PC8500.



Could you link me to an affordable PC8500 RAM? I'm still trying to keep up with your computer talk!


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## Marineborn (Mar 6, 2009)

Bah ocing doesnt hurt anythign...*wafts smoke away from case* WHAT!!!! hahahahaha, its all apart of the fun bro.


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## PotatoChip (Mar 6, 2009)

change the title to looking to build a pc not a freaking cpu. it's annoying


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

PotatoChip said:


> change the title to looking to build a pc not a freaking cpu. it's annoying



Mind telling me how I can do that?



Marineborn said:


> Bah ocing doesnt hurt anythign...*wafts smoke away from case* WHAT!!!! hahahahaha, its all apart of the fun bro.


I know what you're talking about! I'm so looking forward to OCing this baby when I put it together.

As for my case, I've narrowed it down to these two:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119047 [Has air duct, but NO WINDOW!!!]
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119077 [See through window, but no side air duct.]
Do the side ducts really matter? Like, will it make a huge difference? (At least more than 5C?)

*Edit: Moved wall of text to latest post.*


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## Supreme0verlord (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> Mind telling me how I can do that?



All you have to do is go and edit your first post then click "Go Advanced", then you can edit the title from there.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Supreme0verlord said:


> All you have to do is go and edit your first post then click "Go Advanced", then you can edit the title from there.



It doesn't show outside of the thread, you'll only see the edited title in the first post, and every other post INSIDE the thread itself. I've already PMed a moderator.


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## DarkEgo (Mar 6, 2009)




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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

DarkEgo, I noticed you replaced the PSU & RAM. (The small LCD doesn't appeal to me as much.)
The GPU is a different brand. How does MSI/Sapphire/HSI compare to one another?
In overall performance, which build would yield better results? (PreOCed and OCed)

*Edit: Moved wall of text to latest post.*


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## Silverel (Mar 6, 2009)

Windows are REAL easy to make. Go to your local hardware store, buy a like size of plexi. Cut hole in side panel, drill holes in side and plexi, attach plexi.

Spit shine, and polish.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Silverel said:


> Windows are REAL easy to make. Go to your local hardware store, buy a like size of plexi. Cut hole in side panel, drill holes in side and plexi, attach plexi.
> 
> Spit shine, and polish.



I should just screw the case and carefully hold up my hardware with toothpicks! 
I want my case nice and neat, so I'd like the window to have perfectly straight edges and 90 degree angles.
The main question is though, will the side air duct and side air vent make THAT much of a difference?


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## Silverel (Mar 6, 2009)

Bokteelo said:


> I should just screw the case and carefully hold up my hardware with toothpicks!
> I want my case nice and neat, so I'd like the window to have perfectly straight edges and 90 degree angles.



Ah, well... I suppose you haven't been digging through our modding forums, eh? 

Don't worry, we generally avoid using toothpicks.

Bad Boys of Case Modding Clubhouse
Tons of pages there. Just pick a random one and you'll probably see something pretty cool.


A couple examples below too. 

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv


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## RevengE (Mar 6, 2009)

PotatoChip said:


> change the title to looking to build a pc not a freaking cpu. it's annoying



Your annoying, don't post unless you have something positive or a helpful post towards his first time building a pc. Thank you.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 6, 2009)

Silverel said:


> Ah, well... I suppose you haven't been digging through our modding forums, eh?
> 
> Don't worry, we generally avoid using toothpicks.
> Bad Boys of Case Modding Clubhouse
> ...



Hey thanks! I checked out your signature before already, and I like your style!  I might buy the CoolerMaster with the side window and drill some holes in the window myself!



xRevengEx said:


> Your annoying, don't post unless you have something positive or a helpful post towards his first time building a pc. Thank you.



Thanks RevengE! I PMed 2 moderators and lucky one of them changed the title for me. I was feeling quite guilty for attracting all this attention because of my false title. Glad it's fixed now!

Also seeking a quiet DVD drive, and a reliable card reader. 

*Wall of text moved to lastest post.*

Do the side ducts & side vents really matter? Like, will it make a huge difference if I plan on OCing to 4GHz on air? Hope I can get my two builds done within the next 3 days, then pick either the Intel or AMD, THEN I ORDER!

*Edit: Wow, I just felt like I needed to add something. I CAN'T believe how many views and replies this thread has gotten in a measly 2 days. I've learned so much just from reading each and every post. (I read and reread every post made in this thread, so know that your efforts were not in vain.) To think I thought I knew almost everything I needed to know in custom rigs and was so siked to build one on the spot... HA! Learn something new every day eh! I'm so close to finishing, and so excited at the same time.
This will be my first custom built computer, and I'm going to love every moment of building it. (Unless I do something stupid like crack my GPU in half, then I'll never build computers again.)*


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## Wile E (Mar 7, 2009)

The Phenom most likely will not clock to 4GHz on safe voltages. 3.6-3.8 is the norm. After a certain voltage the amount of cooling you have means nothing. Excess voltage, even in conditions where the cpu never gets hot, will also kill the chip. It's called electron migration. Basically, voltage "leaks" from the CPU's transistors, eventually breaking down the insulators between them. Once the insulators break down, the chip becomes unstable. But, with OCing, nothing is guaranteed. It's not even a guaranty the PII can hit 3.6.

The amount of voltages I've seen every Phenom II take to get to 4GHz or more is much too high to be safe on a 45nm chip. It would only be useful for shorts stints for benchmarking, not for 24/7 use.

The Q9550's clock to those speeds on much lower, and therefore safer, voltages. The crappier chips can usually get to 4Ghz on 1.4V. Newer steppings require even less. Perfectly safe for Yorkfield. The downside is, you need a board that will hit 470 fsb with a quad. P45 boards usually do this, but again,  just like any OCing, nothing is guaranteed.

If 4GHz is something you must absolutely achieve for 24/7 use, the Intel has much better odds. (But again, I must stress, no overclcoking is guaranteed) If you are willing to settle for 3.6 - 3.8 for 24/7 use, the odds are about even for both chip.

As far as your case choices, the side vent doesn't matter. A fan most likely won't fit there with the cpu's heatsink anyway.


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## Bokteelo (Mar 7, 2009)

Well, okay so I'll go for the case with a window! I'd have to move my monitor to the right of my desk though; it's on the left right now as it has been for years. (Moving it allows me to see the window and all the components.)

I honestly want to have all 4 cores running @ 4GHz, it will be either 3.5 or 4 because my slight OCD won't allow anything else. (Maybe 3.5/3.75/4.0) I'll be needing a LOT of help OCing though, and I mean a LOT. The PII could've been much easier, because I can just raise the CPU multiplier to reach a total of 4GHz.

You mentioned that I'll need a board that can hit 470 fsb running a quad core, are there better boards that can do this? Or is the one you listed *usually* good enough. I also would love to have a decent stick of memory to OC. I've looked at PC2 8500 1066MHz sticks on Newegg, like every single one, and most are around $40-60, some coming with rebates. (I honestly doubt the rebates will pay off though, seems like a lot of people have been having issues with Newegg rebates.)
I just need 2 sticks that aren't too large and have good heat spreaders. (I've seen an OCZ that comes with a memory cooler for $41!)

Appreciate the help Wile! And now I'll proceed to browse other sections of this forum to see what else I can learn.)

Back2Edit: I'm also planning on OCing my GPU, along with my CPU and RAM. How well does my MSI HD 4870 1GB OC?


```
[B][Size=3]What it looks like so far:[/B][/SIZE]

[SIZE="4"][B]Intel Build:[/B][/SIZE]

LCD - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009125[/url]
HD - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319[/url]
PSU - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005[/url]
RAM - 
GPU - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.163933[/url]
MB - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358[/url]
CPU - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041[/url]
Heatsink - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023[/url]
Case - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119077[/url]
DVD - 
Card Reader - 
TC - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007[/url]

[SIZE="4"][B]AMD Build:[/B][/SIZE]

LCD - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009125[/url]
HD - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319[/url]
PSU - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005[/url]
RAM - 
GPU - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.163933[/url]
MB - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131368[/url]
CPU - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471[/url]
Heatsink - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233023[/url]
Case - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119077[/url]
DVD -
Card Reader -
TC - [url]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007[/url]
```


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## Wile E (Mar 10, 2009)

Most 4970's clock to about the same levels. They aren't super clockers on stock voltages.

And, after speaking to you in PM, I say you wait it out a month or 2.


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## lilkiduno (Mar 11, 2009)

Hey i have to warn you that case you have piced for your system (both AMD & Intel) has some of the worse ventiliton that i've seen in a case, have one in the liveing room (basic AMD 1800 so it don't relly matter with that computer much) i would suggest thisAlso Acer is a great company but i would suggest dropping a few inchs and getting a better picture with this one and a videocard like this (i know it's the rebranded 9800GTX+ but the 1GB edition was cheaper then the 1GB 9800GTX+, plus the 1GB was sold out) and a mobo like this. this here is the ram to get and get this for your DVD drive and if you don't plan on SLIing or Crossfireing then that psu is a bit overkill get the this or this


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## Wile E (Mar 13, 2009)

I have to disagree on buying an nVidia chipset board for an Intel chip. Intel chipsets are much, much better. I also have to disagree with the GTX+. The 4870 1GB is faster.


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## lilkiduno (Mar 13, 2009)

i have the 780i FTW and i love it over every intel chipset board i've ever owned. yes the 4870 1GB is a MUCH faster card i will agree but whats the prices for one of those bad boys rite now, the 250GTS is $160 for the 1GB version and yes i know it's a rebrand card but at a decent price.


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## Wile E (Mar 13, 2009)

lilkiduno said:


> i have the 780i FTW and i love it over every intel chipset board i've ever owned. yes the 4870 1GB is a MUCH faster card i will agree but whats the prices for one of those bad boys rite now, the 250GTS is $160 for the 1GB version and yes i know it's a rebrand card but at a decent price.



I test drove a 780i board. My X38 is infinitely more stable, and has many less quirks when it comes to OCing. Had a few 680i boards as well, and those were equally disappointing.


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## lilkiduno (Mar 13, 2009)

3.75GHz with air on a Q6600 is a good over clock with a 780i mobo


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## Jakl (Mar 13, 2009)

<-----

Mine is all nVIDIA.


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## lilkiduno (Mar 13, 2009)

not that Wile E is wrong but the eVGA 780i is a great board and overclock nicely...


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## Wile E (Mar 13, 2009)

Well, to each their own, but it is fact that Intel chipsets are more stable than their nVidia counterparts. Think about it, Intel makes the chips, it only makes sense that they make a better chipset for it.

The 780i board (reference) was riddled with fsb holes.

The 680i boards wouldn't even take my Q6600 to 3.6Ghz. The X38 had it there on the second boot.

I really wanted the 780 board to work out, because I had a pair of kick-ass clocking Palit 8800GT 1GB's that I really wanted to SLI.


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## lilkiduno (Mar 13, 2009)

where was the fsb hole at? never had a problem here, the reference 780i board was a great board, because it was such a great board i bought the FTW board, if it sucked i would have stayed away from the FTW board


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## Wile E (Mar 13, 2009)

lilkiduno said:


> where was the fsb hole at? never had a problem here, the reference 780i board was a great board, because it was such a great board i bought the FTW board, if it sucked i would have stayed away from the FTW board



I want to say between 425 and 435, and there was another gap too, but that was so long ago, I don't remember clearly.

I have heard the FTW fares much better than the reference boards, tho.


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## lilkiduno (Mar 13, 2009)

i can't talk with much glory about the FTW board as i havn't went through with a overclocking adventure with this Q6600 on this board, recently swaped because the last one wouldn't get over 3.0


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