# Lets talk about: Sound.



## Ketxxx (Apr 29, 2009)

With the recent invasion of chav-like people in the forums killing braincells all over the place with their "innits" and "mas", this is my attempt at rejuvinating intelligent thought to some degree. I also decided to make this thread as discussions on speakers, soundcards, equalizer settings, etc, is somewhat.... lacking. Call this thread general advice for those thinking their speakers aren't sounding as good as they could and people looking for advice on a new soundcard or set of speakers if you will.

With that said, I'll kick things off with my impressions of my current setup.

Speakers: Logitech X540s 5.1 70RMS watts
Speaker Special Features: Desk hub for headphones, "Matrix" mode
Soundcard: Asus Xonar DX 7.1
Audio Obsession Level: Extreme Audiophile

Firstly lets talk about the speakers a little, granted they are not THE most powerful speakers you can buy, but the quality IS there, and thats what matters - good sound quality. As far as midrange speakers go these are good, accuracy across all frequencies is very accurate, and you can even crank these puppies up to full volume with no distortion (assuming you have a good soundcard). These speakers even have a sweet hub you can plug headphones in to save bending over or generally having a wire in the way. The speakers also have a very interesting "Matrix" mode. This mode effectively balances sound channels across all speakers, and it sounds bloody fantastic. Unlike other speakers that tend to rely on walls for acoustic reverberation the X540s do not and have a habit of being deceptively loud. Often I have found myself cranking the volume to "just" 40-50% thinking its not too loud, only to venture downstairs to do something and finding myself able to hear the speakers throughout the whole house clearly with a healthy "boom" from the Subwoofer. The only speakers worth upgrading to from the X540s would be the Logitech Z5500s.

Now heres where things get more complicated as we arrive to the soundcard and its software, configuring it for optimum sound quality. The approach I like to take when setting up for the best possible listening experience is when using the Equalizer, adjust each frequency at a time, moving one slider up and down if needed to get a feel for how it effects the genre of music you listen to. While doing this be sure that nothing sounds distorted across the frequency you are adjusting before moving on. Often you will probably find yourself saving a few different equalizer settings and comparing them all, tweaking the best sounding setting so its "perfect". It goes without saying, but also make sure your soundcard drivers and software are the most up to date available. Often new sound drivers and software will have extra features, bugfixes, tweaks for lower CPU utilisation, and even internal driver tweaks improving audio quality just that little bit more. If your privvy to the option, its also worth experimenting with any LFE Crossover Frequency option you may have, it will help "tune" your speakers in even further than just the Equalizer alone. That about covers me and general advice I have to give, below is a screenshot of my "perfect" Equalizer settings that may help people with the same speakers I have, but such settings are very subjective.


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## Polarman (Apr 29, 2009)

Speakers: Logitech G51.
Speaker Special Features: Desk hub for headphones, "Matrix" mode.
Soundcard: Onboard Realtek® ALC888.
Headphone/Headset: eDimensional AudioFX Gaming Headset.
Audio Obsession Level: Casual.

Overall, i am are very pleased with this setup. Speakers / Headset looks good, decent sound quality. Onboard may sound cheap but at least, drivers from Realtek are updated constantly. CreativeLabs really let me down and i've put a big "X" on them.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 29, 2009)

Even on-board audio can sound reasonable, you just need to tweak the Equalizer  Wise move on blacklisting Creative, their driver support especially sucks, and their tech support isn't any better.


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## Ra97oR (Apr 29, 2009)

^^ 

Speakers: Creative T40 Series II
Speaker Special Features: Dual Input, Headphone jack both goldplated
Soundcard: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music (Pure Direct)
Headphone/Headset: Denon AH-D1001/ Creative Aurvana Live!/ Platronics .audio 370
Speicals On Computer: Sound damping, silent treatment with massive heatsink
Audio Obsession Level: Hell yes!

Over all this setup is very good for music, only with high quality files though as Pure Direct doesn't to alter the sound in any way, so no 'fix' for poor files.

2.0 is the most pure way to listen to music, however I agree it under perform in some areas like movies.


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## kyle2020 (Apr 29, 2009)

Speakers: Logitech Z2300 200W RMS (400W Peak) & Creative Fatal1ty Headset
Speaker Special Features: Small control unit, Subwoofer as big as a small house. 
Soundcard: Via onboard - used to use an X-FI Xtreme Audio, but creative hurt my brain so much that I dont use them anymore. 
Audio Obsession Level: As long as the bass is thundering along with my grindcore, Im not too fussed. I hate crappy bass from cheap systems mind, especially during gaming. So Id say "Bass freak" haha. And I aint no chav before you even utter those words 

My setup is awesome for my needs - excellent crisp sounds during gaming, thundering bass during a breakdown - also its a good looking system. Ill never buy a 5:1 system ever again, its too messy and hard to set up correctly - 2:1 is good for me.


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## alexp999 (Apr 30, 2009)

Oh god, dont get Ketxxx started on a discussion of 2.1 vs 5.1 

Speakers: Logitech X-230s 2.1 32W RMS (64W Peak)
Speaker Special Features: Adjustable Bass, only got it on about 1/4, but OMG! 
Soundcard: ADI SoundMAX AD2000BX Onboard
Audio Obsession Level: Audiophile and a Bass Freak (but no chav like kyle says  )


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## Ra97oR (Apr 30, 2009)

Extreme Audiophiles? Have the term Audiophiles been downgraded from player of proper Hi-Fi costing well over £10,000 to users of weeny 2.1 costing £50.

I will not consider myself as a Audiophiles at all, owning a top of the range computer speaker doesn't make me looks any better in proper Audiophiles' eyes. xD


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## alexp999 (Apr 30, 2009)

My justification for saying audiophile,

My HiFi 

Sony TA-FE370 2 x 70W Amp
Sony CDP-XE270 CD Player
Arcam Delta 280 Tuner
Mission m32i Speakers


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## Ra97oR (Apr 30, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> My justification for saying audiophile,
> 
> My HiFi
> 
> ...



Hey, nice system. But a nice amp upgrade will really boast the sound!

EDIT: Lets not talk about proper Hi-Fi here, it can really get off-topic =P


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## alexp999 (Apr 30, 2009)

I know, it was my 18 Bday present to myself 

And I stretched my budget to get that.

Not off topic, it says lets talk about sound.

I have way too many speakers in my room though, got a Sony DAV-DZ260 5.1 Home Cinema Kit in here too


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## Ra97oR (Apr 30, 2009)

Anyone did any mod on the computer to make the music experience better?

I brought myself a NZXT Hush sound dampening case, a Thermalright TRUE with FDB fan (max rpm 1000) and a Artic Cooling Twin Turbo GFX cooler to make my computer more quiet.


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## BumbleBee (Apr 30, 2009)

the subwoofer on the Logitech X and G series are way too muddy compared to the Z Series. my contribution lol.


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## freaksavior (Apr 30, 2009)

Spekaers: Harmon Kardon Sound Stix II
Special Features: 4 mini speakers in each tower and they are Touch sensative volume  button and bass volume.
Sound Card: Xonar d2x pci-e
Obsession level: Love audio, want to be more of an audiophile but im not

HT

Pioneere Elite TXH-01
Klipsch Icon WF-35 FR and FL speakers 
Icon Center Wc-24 Center
Icon Surround WS-24 left rear and right rear.
Woofer Deftech super cube III


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## FatForester (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers: Logitech Z5300s 5.1 280 watts RMS, 560 watts peak
Speaker Special Features: Has a remote with separate fader, sub, and center controls and a "Matrix" mode
Soundcard: Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic
Audio Obession Level: Wanna-be Audiophile

I think there's a very loose description of the word audiophile here. If I had the money, I would love to build a custom vacuum tube amplifier with my own homemade speakers, but that would cost far too much money to do it right. Maybe one of these days, but for now I'm just sticking with what I've got and tweaking it to make it sound the best it can. My roommate has a pretty nice Hi-Fi setup that I'm quite jealous of at the moment though. When I have time I'll give you guys the specs if you want them.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

This thread is all about PC audio  The term "Extreme Audiophile" is to be used in the classic scenario, somebody who is very picky about every single vocal/instrumental/acoustic effect sounding exactly as it should. 5.1 also is not hard to set up kyle, its just a case of reading the jack labels and plugging them in the right holes  As someone already said, 2.1 is crap, especially for movies. Bass on the X series is also good, whoever it was saying it sounded muddly hasn't adjusted their settings right. If your looking for clarity thats what TREBLE is for


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## BumbleBee (Apr 30, 2009)

no it's definitely the subwoofer. I own 4 pairs of Logitech Speakers (z-5500, z-680, G51 and X-540) if you have owned multiple pairs you could tell the difference but don't take my word for it read some reviews or ask audiophiles. and i'm not saying the speakers are crap just saying the subwoofer is muddy, same thing with my old HD202's the bass was muddy.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

I own 3 5.1 setups, and I have read many reviews on the X540s, all put them in the class of "Very good". Sorry dude, but theres something you haven't done right. Bass isn't supposed to be crystal clear unless you like listening to drums that have no base.


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## Wile E (Apr 30, 2009)

I have to agree with BumbleBee. No amount of tweaking can make a "muddy" sub sound cleaner. The muddy quality comes from lack of/slow cone response. Software cannot fix that. Bass IS supposed to be crystal clear.


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## BumbleBee (Apr 30, 2009)

google "x-540 bass muddy"


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## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

Frequency Response. Bass is not supposed to be crystal, you people don't go to many rock concerts do you?


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## BumbleBee (Apr 30, 2009)

i'm a metal head. lol


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## Wile E (Apr 30, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> Frequency Response. Bass is not supposed to be crystal, you people don't go to many rock concerts do you?



Yes I do. I used to run sound. Bass is supposed to be well defined and crystal clear.


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## BumbleBee (Apr 30, 2009)

agreed.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

lol metal is heavy, not bassy. Wile, if you think Bass is supposed to be absolutely crystal, better go and tell the tech crews at the download festival how to do their job


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## Wile E (Apr 30, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> lol metal is heavy, not bassy. Wile, if you think Bass is supposed to be absolutely crystal, better go and tell the tech crews at the download festival how to do their job



They can't help the environment they are in. And I'd gladly help them, as I used to do it for a living. You are outclassed in this discussion Ket, just let it go.


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## BumbleBee (Apr 30, 2009)

metal is very bassy, it's roots are jazz and blues.


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## JATownes (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers: Creative Z5500
Soundcard: Razer Barracuda AC-1 <--Best soundcard I have owned for gaming. 
Headphones: Everglide S-500 Professionals <----Very sick!!! 

My rig sounds pretty damn awesome IMO.


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## Mandown (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers: Z-5300e 260watt-RMS 560watt-Peak
Special Features: Remote with headset jack, "matrix" mode, fader, sub, center, master volume.
Soundcard: Sound Blaster Audigy SE
Obsession Level: Love music and playing with sound editors, rhythm guitarist, and I listen to music with my radio in my head. almost no commercials and sometimes the DJ gets caught in a loop and I have to hear the same annoying song all day.

I didn't like matrix mode, though the sound was balanced evenly across the speakers, it made everything sound weak. I just put my fader on my software to about 60% in the back, and my fader on my remote more-or-less all the way to the back. If I could get the other part of the software to work again, I set my sub woofer volume to max and my cut-off frequency from 35-45hz. 50-60hz for rock.

Overall I love the speakers, I can't turn my volume knob all the way up and get clear sound, but thats because I have my sound on comp to max and my equalizer has very high frequencies with and extra overall volume boost. I guess you can say I like to live loud.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> metal is very bassy, it's roots are jazz and blues.


I've listen to some Jazz and Blues, all of what I have heard is not Bass at all, its a lot of Treble. Whats the one thing pretty dominant in Jazz? A Saxaphone, thats sure as hell not bassy from the songs I've listen to :/ All mid/hightone.



Mandown said:


> Speakers: Z-5300e 260watt-RMS 560watt-Peak
> Special Features: Remote with headset jack, "matrix" mode, fader, sub, center, master volume.
> Soundcard: Sound Blaster Audigy SE
> Obsession Level: Love music and playing with sound editors, rhythm guitarist, and I listen to music with my radio in my head. almost no commercials and sometimes the DJ gets caught in a loop and I have to hear the same annoying song all day.
> ...



I have the opposite result with both my on-board ALC1200 and Xonar, stuff sounds flat, weak, faded out etc with matrix mode off. Although with my TPower sound sounded better from the on-board codec with matrix off instead of on. Guess it depends on the soundcard. Same with Frequency.


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## Wile E (Apr 30, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> I've listen to some Jazz and Blues, all of what I have heard is not Bass at all, its a lot of Treble. Whats the one thing pretty dominant in Jazz? A Saxaphone, thats sure as hell not bassy from the songs I've listen to :/ All mid/hightone.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the opposite result with both my on-board ALC1200 and Xonar, stuff sounds flat, weak, faded out etc with matrix mode off. Although with my TPower sound sounded better from the on-board codec that uses with matrix off instead of on. Guess it depends on the soundcard.


Umm Bass guitar, stand up bass, not to mention the Kick drum, any floor toms, etc., etc.

You don't know much about music, do you?


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## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

I'd say you don't. Ask any real rocker and all will tell you kick drum, Bass guitar etc all have a definitive "dumm" kinda noise. Not distorted mind, just "dumm".


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## Wile E (Apr 30, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> I'd say you don't. Ask any real rocker and all will tell you kick drum, Bass guitar etc all have a definitive "dumm" kinda noise. Not distorted mind, just "dumm".



I am a real musician. I play all three. Bass, guitar and Drums. There are different pitches of that "dummmmm" as you so put it. A muddy sub does not allow you to discern those different pitches, and it furthermore reduces the subs ability to accurately replay fast attack, quick decay sounds, like a kick drum.

You are only reinforcing the fact that you don't really know much about sound or music. Sure, it comes down to personal preference, and how picky one is, but accuracy is completely quantifiable. 

If an audiophile says a sub is muddy, it means it is not accurate. It may be good enough for you, or a multitude of other people, but that doesn't make it not muddy.


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## russianboy (Apr 30, 2009)

Ket man, the bass can't be muddy. A picked bass must sound picked and not just mushed. Metal is supposed to sound tight and not loose/boomy. The bass must be clear. 

Pic of my equipment coming. I think some of you might be surprised.


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## HellasVagabond (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers : TANNOY SFX5.1
Amplifier ( Receiver ) : YAMAHA RX-V463
Headphones : ULTRASONE PRO-2500
Sound Card : Creative X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro


Great combo although at first i was afraid that it was way too overkill for a Xi-Fi i soon found out that it was just what i needed.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers-4x morduant short ms901 signature,plus Kef centre
Amplifier-sony STR DB840 5x100watts
Sound card-Creative audigy 4

I am using a digital output from the soundcard to my amp.The only thing i need now is an active sub.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

russianboy said:


> Ket man, the bass can't be muddy. A picked bass must sound picked and not just mushed. Metal is supposed to sound tight and not loose/boomy. The bass must be clear.
> 
> Pic of my equipment coming. I think some of you might be surprised.



I never said its supposed to be muddy, in fact I said it shouldn't sound muddy. I did say though bass is supposed to have some kick to it, where wile is talking like bass should sound like treble.


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## Wile E (Apr 30, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> I never said its supposed to be muddy, in fact I said it shouldn't sound muddy. I did say though bass is supposed to have some kick to it, where wile is talking like bass should sound like treble.



No I'm not. It said it should be crystal clear. Clarity has nothing to do with frequency. What I typed, and what you interpreted it as are 2 entirely different things.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

So I interprited what you said wrong due to you not quite using the right words to describe what you meant, there, we are both wrong then  Me for mis-interpriting what you said, and you for not properly describing what you meant


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## Wile E (Apr 30, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> So I interprited what you said wrong due to you not quite using the right words to describe what you meant, there, we are both wrong then  Me for mis-interpriting what you said, and you for not properly describing what you meant



But I didn't use improper terminology. Clarity is a pretty standard word when referring to sound quality.

Meh, either way. The point got across.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

It was kinda improper terminolgy, when somebody says "Clarity" automatically you think of everything BUT base. Base isn't clear in the traditional sence, its a deep tone.


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## Wile E (Apr 30, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> It was kinda improper terminolgy, when somebody says "Clarity" automatically you think of everything BUT base. Base is clear, but whats thought of in a slightly different way to everything else.



No, that's the way you think of it. Clarity is a proper term for describing a speaker's sound qualities, regardless of whether it's a sub, mid, tweeter, or anything else.


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## Kursah (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers: Logitech X230s 2.1 (had for 3+ years)
Headset: Turtle Beach HPA2 5.1 Amplified Headset
Speaker Special Features: Headphone connection on rh satellite, sub level control
Soundcard: Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music
Audio Obsession Level: Casual

My primary tuning is for my headset as my apt sucks, so do my neighbors and the thin walls..so my TB's get the most tuning bar-none. I am fairly specific on how I want my audio to sound, I like full sound, I don't need earth shaking bass or ear-drum splitting hi's, but I do like good accuracy, level adjustments. I take my time tuning the EQ to what I feel sounds best overall...I used to tune as a "per application" basis, i.e. music, movies, games, compressed music, compressed movies, etc. I now have gone a tad more general with Headset and Speaker EQ settings. I leave the rest of the X-Fi features off, don't need em, they don't seem to improve anything to my ears.

One thing I've learned with headsets is to either get a cheap plantronics set unamplified or get an amplified headset, really anymore I prefer headsets just for the fact I can listen to whatever I want as loud as I want and be good to go. The TB HPA2's are amplified, have level adjustments for all channels, a master volume, and sound really good overall. Not super accurate 5.1, but if I wanted a tru sound-stage I'd have a 5.1 speaker setup, no point in a small apartment and the time and wiring it'd take to setup a 5.1 speaker setup just isn't worth it for me. 2.1 speakers are great, my satellites are mounted on the wall even with the top of my monitor, that actually improved overall sound stage a bit for my ears, the Logitech X-230's are a very good and cheap 2.1 set, plenty of sound, solid clarity, and bang-for-buck still one of my favorite 2.1 kits ever.

The X-fi has been a great card, I've had no issue with creative drivers in Vista x64 for well over 1 year now, many compain, maybe they're after something I'm not...but my sound is great and undistorted, very clear, the EQ adjusts as I command it to, the software is stable, I could care less about EAX, the cmms3d works great with 2.1 channel speakers and heasets. I know creative isn't the best at support, but I recommended the Xtreme Music to a friend of mine that decided to spend way more on an xtreme platinume pci-e, he ended up getting rid of it days later because of problems. I say if you go x-fi, get a lower end x-fi. To me it sounds leaps and bounds better than most onboard, I compared my P5B's onboard to the X-fi, hands down the x-fi was much clearer and more distinct with detail, hi's, mid's and low's. Sure it's not top dollar but with patience, time and tuning it sounds very good without having to get the best equipment that would require the same amount of time, patience and tuning to get similar results. I go for a good budget/performance ratio in pretty much all areas of my rig, this is definately one of them. What it comes down to is what you're happy with, I'm extremely content with my setup, so I feel I can highly recommend the X-Fi Xtreme Music, Turtle Beach HPA2 5.1 headset, and Logitech X-230 2.1 speakers without issue. They all work great together, the headset comes with good quality splitters, many hate them, but these ones are very good, thick, solidly built, support up to 5.1 split, and I noticed no audible differences in the audio I listen to using them. Plus it helps the HPA2's are amplified I suppose, very good sound through them overall, more of a well rounded sound...if you want max bass, they're not for you. Just my 2 cents! 



PS: I'm not audiophile enough to spend a ton of senn's with an amp built into an altoids can...just not for me!


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## DrPepper (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers - On screen 
Sound card - P5Q Deluxe onboard 
Amplifier - Not being used 

As you guys can see my sound system sucks teh balls. It used to be a 5.1 creative set that sadly died. The bass speaker was incredible in the sense that when a cannon went of on medieval 2 total war my next door neighbour though a gun was actually fired.


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## HeadlessChicken (Apr 30, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> Speakers - On screen
> Sound card - P5Q Deluxe onboard
> Amplifier - Not being used
> 
> As you guys can see my sound system sucks teh balls. It used to be a 5.1 creative set that sadly died. The bass speaker was incredible in the sense that when a cannon went of on medieval 2 total war my next door neighbour though a gun was actually fired.



cant fix them?

My creative "Cambrige SoundWorkds" set had a short in the vol control wires, i just cut below short and patched the wires back togather, sure i gotta tweak volume with the system now, but it works great 

as to my sound setup

Speekers: logitech z3's(2.1)+cambrige soundworks(4.1)+altec lancing 2.1 (for center and sub) 
soundcard: onboard ALC888 with DK R2.22 drivers

I look at myself as a simi-serious audio phile, Not to the level of some, but the reasion i have the mix of speekers i do, is that after some moding(replacing some of the acctual speekers) it sounds better then the native 5.1 set it replaced, covers a wider range of freq and has more crisp/clear responces.

I have a reciver i may be switching to once i get ahold of a card that can do DTS encoding(5.1 setup thats got some kickass speekers on it....i may even upgrade the front speekers on that set with an old set of speekers i got on a shelf that where expencive as hell when i got them years back) 

this thred has been fun to watch.......clueless people argueing with audiophiles is fun to watch


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## DrPepper (Apr 30, 2009)

Can't fix them they got thrown out in anger. Anyways I'd consider myself a medium audiophile I just cant get the damn equiptment but I would if I had money. So frickin tired of these flat dull speakers. They aren't even stereo.


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## kenkickr (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers: Logitech Z-5300 5.1
Speaker Special Features: THX certified sound, 280Watts of rumble power!
Soundcard: Onboard Soundmax(I miss my X-fi Titanium Pro )
Audio Obsession Level: Movie sound and Music buff

I've had these speakers for years and pretty much the only way I'll get rid of them is when you grab them from my cold, dead hands..or they die.  I do quite a bit of video rendering and to me audio is just as important, if not more.  When it comes to my music collection(Heavy Metal, classic rock, country, and some more Heavy Metal) I want to hear every string, cymbal, drum, and vocals as I can.  Soon I will have a nice sound card again, probably another Titanium Pro due to the others have a lack of Win 7 support right now and I honestly was very impressed with the Tit Pro.


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## alexp999 (Apr 30, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> Speakers - On screen
> Sound card - P5Q Deluxe onboard
> Amplifier - Not being used
> 
> As you guys can see my sound system sucks teh balls. It used to be a 5.1 creative set that sadly died. The bass speaker was incredible in the sense that when a cannon went of on medieval 2 total war my next door neighbour though a gun was actually fired.



You know the Audio chip on The P5Q deluxe is one of the best on-boards you can get right?

Oh and about this muddy thing, since I have had my X-230s I have never heard such clean bass in a long time.

The problem comes down to personal preference, I like my Bass too much, I cant help it, these X-230s kick out better sound than any PC speakers I have ever had. Better than my Dads Cambridge Soundworks, IMO.

I knew this discussion wouldnt take long to get a bit toing and froing.

Although I only have a X-230s I consider myself an Audiophile because crap sound bugs me, I make the most out of what I can afford. Spend ages getting positioning and settings right. Though I have to admit, I have turned the EQ off for these speakers.


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## 3dkiller (Apr 30, 2009)

Logitech z5500 
Realtek 889A Codec  and im using fibre optical yeah i love the sound  thats coming out of the speakers


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## selway89 (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers: Mission M30i Black (nice little speakers)
Speaker Special Features: Front ported and wall mountable.... Bluetacked to desk atm
Soundcard: X-Fi ExtremeMusic
Amp: Mission Cyrus One
Audio Obsession Level: Nearing audiophile. Love my kit and love listening to my dads kit too.


Nice little setup, good range from the speakers, my desk is a little hollow so can get bit of sound distortion but I think with some lead filled stands they will be perfect. Ill add pics later if I can.


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## Mussels (Apr 30, 2009)

3dkiller said:


> Logitech z5500
> Realtek 889A Codec  and im using fiber optical yeah i love the sound  thats coming out of the speakers



same setup on my media PC, using the DTS encoding.

gaming PC uses either onboard w/ X-fi mod, audigy 4 or auzentech X-mystique (i need a new VGA cooler to fit a soundcard in, and haven't decided which one yet)


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## Studabaker (Apr 30, 2009)

I found the Realtek audio console to have no band-driven Equalizer, just letting me pick from pre-sets.  Am I missing something?


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## Tau (Apr 30, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> With the recent invasion of chav-like people in the forums killing braincells all over the place with their "innits" and "mas", this is my attempt at rejuvinating intelligent thought to some degree. I also decided to make this thread as discussions on speakers, soundcards, equalizer settings, etc, is somewhat.... lacking. Call this thread general advice for those thinking their speakers aren't sounding as good as they could and people looking for advice on a new soundcard or set of speakers if you will.
> 
> With that said, I'll kick things off with my impressions of my current setup.
> 
> ...







Ra97oR said:


> Extreme Audiophiles? Have the term Audiophiles been downgraded from player of proper Hi-Fi costing well over £10,000 to users of weeny 2.1 costing £50.
> 
> I will not consider myself as a Audiophiles at all, owning a top of the range computer speaker doesn't make me looks any better in proper Audiophiles' eyes. xD



^^

Personally Ket if your an "extreame" audiophile and running that setup you have not heard a true "extreame" audiophile setup.

I would consider myself somewhat of an audiophile, though not one thats willing to spend 10K+ on my setup (though close to it lol.)

That Xonar card is awsome though hands down the best consumer card on the market by far.

My PC setup is simple, a modded Audigy 4, older JVC amp that I love to bits, a Behringer EQ, and a set of HD500's.  Next upgrade for the PC setup will be a newer NAD, or Technics amp, a set of K701's and some Monitors for speakers (tired of just headphones on this computer, sometimes i would like speakers)


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## Mussels (Apr 30, 2009)

Studabaker said:


> I found the Realtek audio console to have no band-driven Equalizer, just letting me pick from pre-sets.  Am I missing something?



if you use the modded x-fi ones, you can get an EQ 

and i kind of agree... X-540's are great speakers (my secondaries) but holy hell are they nowhere near as good as my Z5500's, and my z5500's dont come near pro-level equipment (which admittedly, costs a shitload)


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## Studabaker (Apr 30, 2009)

Mussels said:


> if you use the modded x-fi ones, you can get an EQ
> 
> and i kind of agree... X-540's are great speakers (my secondaries) but holy hell are they nowhere near as good as my Z5500's, and my z5500's dont come near pro-level equipment (which admittedly, costs a shitload)



I thought the Creative software didn't work, slash had a 30-day limit, slash didn't work in Vista specifically.

As far as the X-540s, people (like me) buy them because they cost 1/3 of the Z5500s, which of course deliver about as many times as much power, also.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 30, 2009)

Studabaker said:


> I thought the Creative software didn't work, slash had a 30-day limit, slash didn't work in Vista specifically.
> 
> As far as the X-540s, people (like me) buy them because they cost 1/3 of the Z5500s, which of course deliver about as many times as much power, also.



kets mod works in XP, daniel_K's mod works in vista. You can buy keys now via the program, the links are valid now.


----------



## Studabaker (Apr 30, 2009)

Mussels said:


> kets mod works in XP, daniel_K's mod works in vista. You can buy keys now via the program, the links are valid now.



Don't they charge $30?  For that much I can just get another Audigy SE and run the X-Fi drivers & apps on it like I'm doing now.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 30, 2009)

Studabaker said:


> Don't they charge $30?  For that much I can just get another Audigy SE and run the X-Fi drivers & apps on it like I'm doing now.



true. we cant discuss piracy here on TPU, but lets just say i triple booted and ran three copies of vista on here at once, and the key worked on all three simultaneously without problems. the keys dont seem to mind sharing a little, If you get my hint.


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 30, 2009)

Soundcard:  Xifi Elite Pro Retail (with I/O console), £70 from PC World! 

Speakers:  Videologic ZX-R550 5.1 (6 years old and still fantastic!)

Sony DTRDG-820 7.1 HDMI DD/DTS/DTS-ES AV amplifier

http://www.froogle.hughesdirect.co.uk/showproduct.php?cda=showproduct&pid=SON-STRDG820-BLACK

Speakers:  TANGENT FP-500 5.0 Plus yamaha 150W Sub

I interchange systems between gaming and DVD/BlueRay.

Edit:  Forgot to add................

Headphones:  Creative Fatal1ty Gamer headset.


----------



## Studabaker (Apr 30, 2009)

Mussels said:


> true. we cant discuss piracy here on TPU, but lets just say i triple booted and ran three copies of vista on here at once, and the key worked on all three simultaneously without problems. the keys dont seem to mind sharing a little, If you get my hint.



 hint gotten


----------



## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

My X540s ain't the best, but they do a decent job. Audiophiles aren't so much about how much is spent on their sound setups, thats addicts. Audiophiles are the people who understand what instruments are supposed to sound like and spend hours tweaking their sound setup to get as accurate as possible representation of what those instruments sound like in real life on their setup without the music sounding flat.


----------



## WarEagleAU (Apr 30, 2009)

Wow, Wile E, I didnt know you played instruments, that is bad ass man.

My setup is a set of old Creative Sound Works 5.1 speakers. They sound pretty good, but my woofer seems to be over powered, of course, that could be because of how I got the eq on my x fi fatal1ty set up


----------



## selway89 (Apr 30, 2009)

A note id like to make for X-Fi users. The crystalizer is a dynamic eq setting. However it reduces the sound stage by quite allot, making difference between frequences smaller. I have noticed hiddeous distortion with this setting and use mine without any surround or crystalizer settings.
Sounds amazing.

Some pics of my setup:
My system at uni:


----------



## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

Only thing the crystalizer is good for is low quality MP3s. On the note of instruments, I used to play drums at school and classic guitar, great way of venting frustration


----------



## alexp999 (Apr 30, 2009)

Missions speakers ftw!


----------



## HeadlessChicken (Apr 30, 2009)

WarEagleAU said:


> Wow, Wile E, I didnt know you played instruments, that is bad ass man.
> 
> My setup is a set of old Creative Sound Works 5.1 speakers. They sound pretty good, but my woofer seems to be over powered, of course, that could be because of how I got the eq on my x fi fatal1ty set up



there should be a knob on back of the sub u can use to tweak the bass


----------



## selway89 (Apr 30, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> Missions speakers ftw!



You should hear my dads old 781s best iv heard.


781 speakers back at home:


----------



## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

haha I'll be like that when I'm old  not because I'll need all that power... just because I'll be deaf after years of abusing my ears


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 30, 2009)

selway89 said:


> A note id like to make for X-Fi users. The crystalizer is a dynamic eq setting. However it reduces the sound stage by quite allot, making difference between frequences smaller. I have noticed hiddeous distortion with this setting and use mine without any surround or crystalizer settings.
> Sounds amazing.
> 
> Some pics of my setup:
> ...



Yes, I tried Crystaliser when I first got my Elite pro which was my first Xifi card and didnt like it personally so dont use it now.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 30, 2009)

I love mission speakers,but i got my 4x mordaunt 901's for £100,great little speakers.


----------



## imperialreign (Apr 30, 2009)

selway89 said:


> A note id like to make for X-Fi users. The crystalizer is a dynamic eq setting. However it reduces the sound stage by quite allot, making difference between frequences smaller. I have noticed hiddeous distortion with this setting and use mine without any surround or crystalizer settings.
> Sounds amazing.



Crystallizer is actually an oddly implimented loudness/signal processing effect, not an EQ setting.

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles2/multimedia/creative-x-fi-part2.html

as per how it's used - it's a double-edged sword.  Very poor quality audio (e.g. .mp3 @ 128kbps or less) will sound 10x worse with the crystallizer, as certain portions of the frequency range are amplified . . . usually the same portion of the band where the artifacts and distortion will lie after such compression.

High quality audio (e.g. .wma @ lossless) will see no benefit from Crystallizer - actually, quite the contrary, the effect _hurts_ high-quality audio . . . masking certain portions of the band.

The only worthwhile purpose of the Crystallizer feature that I've been able to deduce - gaming.  Most game audio is a decent middle-of-the-line audio compression, usually using .wav or .ogg formats (WAV being an "uncompressed" format), at 44.1kHz.  In-game, the audio system will play sounds at various levels of playback, and "position" sound based upon their relation to the actor, as well as applying environmental filters, occlusion filters, reverb effects, etc.  The amount of filters placed over a track can sometimes mask certain frequency ranges that the player _should_ be able to hear (usually high frequencies) - Crystallizer is capable of strengthening these portion of the range, as it's applied individually to each file for playback - giving gunshots, for example, a very crisp sound . . . even if their source is far enough away from the player that it's still muted, it can bring out the high frequencies that still enable the player to vaguely discern those sounds.

Otherwise, I find the Crystallizer feature to be absolutely horrible for general entertainment playback . . . perhaps, in regards to my audio collection, is due from the vast quantities of lossless, uncompressed audio I have.  If I rip a CD, it goes down in either .wma lossless or .wav.








As to audio specs and general hardware, etc. feel free to check out my guide: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=64921







As to audio equipment I *currently* have:

X-Fi Fatal1ty PCI (2)
X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty
X-Fi Elite Pro

Harmon/Kardon Soundsticks II
Razer HP-1 5.1 headset

I've also hound countless 5.1 setups that I seem to destroy sooner or later 


My personal setup, though consists of:

4 vintage Pioneer CS-99A 5-way units:






full wood enclosure, and they stand about mid-thigh from the ground.  These are 80W units, but sound like much more powerful units - excellent lows and mids, with a very balanced high range.  These bad boys will rattle the drywall right out of your home . . .


vintage JVC 4-channel stereo reciever - looks similar to this:





although mine has a black finish to it with chrome trim around it



and a vintage JVC amplifier that lokos similar to this:





again, though, black finish instead of the polished aluminum.  The two I have are a matching set.



I'll just say that my personal setup, if set to a volume level of "3" *will* get the cops called - it's LOUD . . . very LOUD.  I can easily run my computer into the reciever as well, but I tend to prefer my headset most of the time.


----------



## selway89 (Apr 30, 2009)

imperialreign.... Thanks for the info, I had read some stuff on it a while ago and from what I understood at the time its a glorified eq. But as you say its odly implemented. Eitherway with mp3 or Flac that I have etc I find it horrible and reduces sound stage considerably.

And those are some big bass drivers on those Pioneers!


tigger... thats a steal for that price, 4 of them for 100!! Mordaunts look fantastic but never had chance to have a listen to some.


----------



## silkstone (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers: SBS A200
Headphones: Philips SHM1800
Soundcard: Onboard Realtek
Audio Obsession level: I don;t belong in this thread

I've used various different soundcards from high-end (at-the-time) Audigy to low USB soundcards and i have noticed 0 difference, the exeption being laptop sound which has sounded tinny to say the least even with external (good) speakers. I always try to buy semi decent speakers as that is where i believe all the benifits come from. The speakers i have now are low end, but more than adequate unless they are set too loud. I tend to listen to music over headphones anyway as my computer is in a shared room


----------



## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

I heard much better audio when using the Crystalizer on my MP3s, but their high-ish quality rips anyway, 192.


----------



## imperialreign (Apr 30, 2009)

selway89 said:


> imperialreign.... Thanks for the info, I had read some stuff on it a while ago and from what I understood at the time its a glorified eq. But as you say its odly implemented. Eitherway with mp3 or Flac that I have etc I find it horrible and reduces sound stage considerably.
> 
> And those are some big bass drivers on those Pioneers!



not a prob.

and, yeah, these units are HUGE . . . I like that pic, the coffee mug gives a decent representation as to their size . . .

I guess you could classify them as "bookshelf" speakers, but they're way too big to be on anything but the floor . . . besides, they weigh a good 65lbs each.  Very hard to move around.


Personally - I prefer older equipment over today's over-engineered stuff.  Sure, modern speaker construction is a lot better, with better materials involved . . . but typically don't have the same "warmth" older equipment is capable of . . . nor the sheer power


----------



## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

I have some decent wood made speakers I could switch for the plastic shell ones my X540s have. The only thing that kinda puts me off is the fact the center wood speaker don't have any way to fix it to the top of my panel, where the actual X540 speakers do.. hrmm..


----------



## Evo85 (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers : JVC home Theater  http://av.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027941&pathId=30&page=1

 Headphones: Logitech   http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/headsets_microphones/devices/358&cl=us,en

 Sound Card: Onboard 8ch HD (ALC  1200)

 Obsession level: Moderate


----------



## craigo (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers: Klipsch promedia GMX A 2.1

Soundcard: Intel® High Definition Audio subsystem using the Sigmatel* 9274D audio codec

DVD drive: LG GH20NS15 firmware modded to STFU when playing discs\

Software: winamp set to 24bit playback

Audio Obsession Level: I care what it sounds like


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 30, 2009)

Heres what they look like.I ave them on spiked stands with silver anniversary wire.They are biwireable too.


----------



## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

Nice sleek fronts, they could of picked a better colour to stain the wood though IMO.


----------



## Ra97oR (Apr 30, 2009)

Ra97oR said:


> ^^
> 
> Speakers: Creative T40 Series II
> Speaker Special Features: Dual Input, Headphone jack both goldplated
> ...


picture time.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 30, 2009)

Ra97oR said:


> picture time.
> 
> http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7324/dsc00217n.jpg



YAY I HAVE THAT KEYBOARD.

oh yeah, nice speakers


----------



## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

Your desk is a lot neater than mine


----------



## alexp999 (Apr 30, 2009)

Mine looks like that on picture days, doesnt right now tho


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 30, 2009)

Mines always covered in tat


----------



## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

lol same. Right now sitting on my desk I have glasses, floppy disks, a penknife, screwdriver, ruler, pens, camera, BGA heatsinks, FET heatsink, VF900... the list goes on


----------



## Frederik S (Apr 30, 2009)

My usual desktop setup is something like this:
Foobar 2k with ASIO4ALL, Optical out from Realtek HDA to Octavart The One DAC / Headphone amplifier, and one of the following headphones: Ultrasone PRO900, modded SR-60s. 

My favourite setup at the moment is this: Marantz CD6002 -> Head-Direct EF1 with a Sylvania 12AU7 tube (HP rebrand) -> AKG K701 / Ultrasone PRO900s / Modded Sennheiser HD580.  

And then of course I have a Travagan's Green powering a set of Qinpu speakers which is quite a potent near field system. 

Audio Obsession Level: Head-fi, I like my headphones  

The great thing about headphones is that you do not have to spend boatloads of cash in order to get a well performing setup, and you are never limited by the acoustics of your listening room.


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 30, 2009)

tigger said:


> Mines always covered in tat



Someone mention my name?


----------



## Yukikaze (Apr 30, 2009)

I have two sets of Logitech Z-2300s (One at my apt, one at my parents' place), since the Z-5500s were too rich for my blood when I was buying and my poor student apartment lacks the space for a full surround setup.

I love the Z-2300s to death, especially their massive woofer.


----------



## department76 (Apr 30, 2009)

Speakers: custom-built 3-way towers and 2-way center, paradigm Atom v2 surrounds
Receiver/Amp: Denon AVR-685
Headphones: Denon AH-D1000
Soundcard: Auzentech X-Fi Prelude
Software: X-Fi software suite, RC8 drivers, WMP Lossless encoding on most music.
Audio Obsession Level: devout audiophile and DIYer


ketxxx:

just looking at your EQ settings, i have an important suggestion, the same goes for anyone using EQ.  i don't see a total gain adjustment/compensator anywhere (normally 0db, sometimes +12dB, to -12db, for a +/-12dB EQ).  all of your adjustments are positive amplitude, this means that across all frequency bands, you are adding a net average of + gain.  this is where the use of the total gain adjustment comes in.  for best results on any audio system, the average DC value across an equalizer should be 0dB, otherwise you are just adding static gain into the signal which will more than likely result in clipping.  yes it is possible to clip your output signal if it is gained too much, yes there are in-audible levels of clipping. normally clipping becomes audible at very high levels so if your stuff sounds fine right now, its probably still clipping at an in-audible level.  0dB on the EQ corresponds to the reference output level of your audio hardware, so asking for a static gain of +6dB is a poor choice.  just because your EQ goes to +12dB, that doesnt mean your hardware can handle +12dB.  hard to say exactly what someones EQ could really handle in terms of gaining the reference signal, but generally that just isnt a good idea.  it is also possible that the EQ software already determines the dc and biases it automatically to avoid clipping.  that would be great implementation by the manufacturer, but i highly doubt its common (my auzen prelude doesn't do that).

why is a static gain a bad thing?  
1) you can clip your outputs before the amplifier (between your soundcard, before the signal reaches your speakers)
2) every +3dB increase results in a 2x power demand on your amplifier.  having a static gain on your EQ is the same thing as having your volume permanently turned up by a small amount.

to avoid clipping your ouput:  slide everything down in equal amounts so the average overall gain is 0dB, or use an overall gain compensator in the EQ to negate the DC gain of the current EQ settings-- this will not change the way your EQ settings sound, it will be the same thing as turning down the volume.  
it's really easy to find the average gain, just average all frequency band magnitudes together, if it's postive, you need to cut, if it's negative you're OK but could stand to raise the level a bit.

hope that all makes sense.


edit:  here's my EQ settings, should show the concept a little better.  i gain the low bass heavily because i don't have a sub, my receiver has good clean power that can handle it (my towers are 3.0cuft w/ 12" woofers).


----------



## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

Theres no clipping for me. In my case due to the music I listen to ramped EQ settings clean things up. Clipping really isn't something I would consider a issue unless someone is daft enough to set things to +6db or more. I listen to a lot of music at very high volumes and specifically tune my EQ while listening to audio at high volumes so I can pick up on clipping. It wouldn't surprise me if Asus did implement something to automatically avoid clipping given the calibur the Xonar DX is, but only way to be sure is to ask Asus.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 30, 2009)

Does it make a diferance using a digital out or analouge out? i dont use any sort of eq,either software or on my amp.Straight digi signal to my amp.


----------



## Ketxxx (Apr 30, 2009)

I've never heard any difference between the two, but there may be something I'm missing. One thing I did notice with digital was less hiss on low quality speakers.


----------



## Ra97oR (Apr 30, 2009)

department76 said:


> Speakers: custom-built 3-way towers and 2-way center, paradigm Atom v2 surrounds
> Headphones: Denon AH-D1000
> Soundcard: Auzentech X-Fi Prelude
> Software: X-Fi software suite, WMP Lossless encoding on most music (very few songs out of my collection of 6300 are anything below 256kbps)
> ...



Wow! Nice setup, agreeing the headphones are awesome?


----------



## Studabaker (Apr 30, 2009)

My 2 cents on Crystalizer.  I don't use it.  Softmodding the Audigy to X-Fi delivers a sound quality benefit on it's own.  Crystalizer has made everything I have tried it on at all settings sound like ass.


----------



## Wile E (Apr 30, 2009)

I don't use any effects on my Audigy2 ZS either. I hate them. All those posts, and I completely forgot to mention my setup. lol.

*Speakers:* none atm. Used to be a pair of M-Audio powered monitors, but I sold them, as I want a 5.1 setup. Soon to be Polk RM6750 5.1's

*Headphones:* Razer Barracuda HP-1 5.1 surround. Terrible headphones. Regret purchasing them. Shure E2c IEMs that need recorded due to my bunny eating the cord. 

*Soundcard:* Audigy 2 ZS (thinking about upgrading soon)

*Software:* D_K Drivers; FLAC and WAV encoding only. 320kbps AAC for portables.

*Amp/Receiver:* Onkyo TX-SR500 65Wx5 (at 8 ohms)

*Audio Obsession Level:* Audiophile without the money to be an Audiophile. lol. I'd spend $100k on my setup if I could. lol. I used to run live sound semi-professionally.


----------



## department76 (May 1, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> Theres no clipping for me. In my case due to the music I listen to ramped EQ settings clean things up. Clipping really isn't something I would consider a issue unless someone is daft enough to set things to +6db or more. I listen to a lot of music at very high volumes and specifically tune my EQ while listening to audio at high volumes so I can pick up on clipping. It wouldn't surprise me if Asus did implement something to automatically avoid clipping given the calibur the Xonar DX is, but only way to be sure is to ask Asus.



fair enough 

audio is all in the eye of the beholder anyhow...


----------



## iandh (May 1, 2009)

I'm semi-audiophile I suppose (my cheapness prevents me from going full blown)

Custom built monitors w/LPG 1" silk domes & SEAS 7" mids, custom 18db-HP/12db-LP passive crossovers (self-designed)
Sonic impact T-amp
X-Fi Xtremegamer (only because I got it dirt cheap)

And NO, no pics. I refuse to show the crappiness of my speaks. Maybe one day when I get around to building proper enclosures I will show them. 



Ketxxx said:


> My X540s ain't the best, but they do a decent job. Audiophiles aren't so much about how much is spent on their sound setups, thats addicts. Audiophiles are the people who understand what instruments are supposed to sound like and spend hours tweaking their sound setup to get as accurate as possible representation of what those instruments sound like in real life on their setup without the music sounding flat.



A good ear is better than good gear...


----------



## HeadlessChicken (May 1, 2009)

department76 said:


> fair enough
> 
> audio is all in the eye of the beholder anyhow...



wouldnt that be the ear of the beholder ?


----------



## Ketxxx (May 1, 2009)

I'm surprised my ears haven't blown up yet, but I guess thats what happens with 2 operations strengthening thin eardrum walls.


----------



## department76 (May 1, 2009)

iandh said:


> I'm semi-audiophile I suppose (my cheapness prevents me from going full blown)
> 
> Custom built monitors w/LPG 1" silk domes & SEAS 7" mids, custom 18db-HP/12db-LP passive crossovers (self-designed)
> Sonic impact T-amp
> ...





all my speakers are primarily for my HT setup, my computer isn't far away (15ft of component and fiber-optic cable easily solves that).  my current project in mind is a 2.0 setup especially for my computer.  i am jealous of your T-amp because that's exactly what i've been thinking of to power it.  Seas make some pretty nice woofers :-D

my own towers i re-vamped some vintage Fisher towers from the ground up (12" Dayton Classic woofer, 6" Dayton RS for the mid, 1 1/8" Vifa textile dome tweet, new custom crossover, internal chamber for the mid, wall dampening), my center is in a custom built cabinet (2nd order xover w/ zobel, 2x Dayton RS 6" and a titanium Dayton tweet).  picture of the center opened up is attached.

i  partsexpress

what do you use for your xover design?  i use Passive Crossover Designer 5.1, it's free , realtively accurate, and operates via excel spreadsheet.  not ideal nor user friendly, but it works.  i use REW for taking measurements and testing, along with a radioshack spl meter.

attached is also a pic of a set of speakers i made for my parents.  8" Hi-Vi M8N woofers and 1" Vifa titanium dome tweets, 12dB/oct lpf @ 2khz & 12dB/oct hpf @ 3khz.  they have brackets for wall-mounting.

no my cabinet construction isnt perfect on either, but i'm not ashamed.


----------



## HeadlessChicken (May 1, 2009)

Wile E said:


> I don't use any effects on my Audigy2 ZS either. I hate them. All those posts, and I completely forgot to mention my setup. lol.
> 
> *Speakers:* none atm. Used to be a pair of M-Audio powered monitors, but I sold them, as I want a 5.1 setup. Soon to be Polk RM6750 5.1's
> 
> ...



if u really hate those headphones u can throw them my way


----------



## imperialreign (May 1, 2009)

department76 said:


> just looking at your EQ settings, i have an important suggestion, the same goes for anyone using EQ.  i don't see a total gain adjustment/compensator anywhere (normally 0db, sometimes +12dB, to -12db, for a +/-12dB EQ).  all of your adjustments are positive amplitude, this means that across all frequency bands, you are adding a net average of + gain.  this is where the use of the total gain adjustment comes in.  for best results on any audio system, the average DC value across an equalizer should be 0dB, otherwise you are just adding static gain into the signal which will more than likely result in clipping.  yes it is possible to clip your output signal if it is gained too much, yes there are in-audible levels of clipping. normally clipping becomes audible at very high levels so if your stuff sounds fine right now, its probably still clipping at an in-audible level.  0dB on the EQ corresponds to the reference output level of your audio hardware, so asking for a static gain of +6dB is a poor choice.  just because your EQ goes to +12dB, that doesnt mean your hardware can handle +12dB.  hard to say exactly what someones EQ could really handle in terms of gaining the reference signal, but generally that just isnt a good idea.  it is also possible that the EQ software already determines the dc and biases it automatically to avoid clipping.  that would be great implementation by the manufacturer, but i highly doubt its common (my auzen prelude doesn't do that).
> 
> why is a static gain a bad thing?
> 1) you can clip your outputs before the amplifier (between your soundcard, before the signal reaches your speakers)
> ...









just a further recommendation in regards to general EQ level gain - I've found over the years it's best to first adjust gain levels with a flat EQ curve . . .

and before that, adjusting individual speakers levels.  Not sure as to how other manufacturer's software works, but X-Fi software can adjust individual speaker volume settings, and compensate for distance from listener as well.  it's best to get speaker volumes set correctly before fiddling with the EQ to adjust for the ambient environment and speaker capabilities.

As to EQ - there's no real good rule-of-thumb, as actual preference is 100% subjective, and has a lot to do with what you'll be listening to, and what individual frequencies one might prefer.

My prefered EQ curve is rather strange (http://img.techpowerup.org/090430/EQ.jpg), but sounds best to me for the vast majority of the types of music I listen to.




Also, to keep in mind, for the majority of audio cards out there - master volume settings below 50% are fully software based (in regards to X-Fi based cards, the software cut-off is 46%).  Raising master volume over 50% is done via hardware amplification (at the OPAMPs), and _that_ is where a lot of clipping and/or other distortions will start to occur.  IMHO, it's best to set your software's master volume to about 45%, then further adjust volume at your speakers (if possible) for a comfortable listening volume - be careful not to set the volume at the speakers too high, though, as further raising the software's master volume will "overdrive" the speakers - resulting in stress to the drivers, possible damage to the speaker and driver assembly, and reduction in audio quality.


----------



## iandh (May 1, 2009)

department76 said:


> all my speakers are primarily for my HT setup, my computer isn't far away (15ft of component and fiber-optic cable easily solves that).  my current project in mind is a 2.0 setup especially for my computer.  i am jealous of your T-amp because that's exactly what i've been thinking of to power it.  Seas make some pretty nice woofers :-D
> 
> my own towers i re-vamped some vintage Fisher towers from the ground up (12" Dayton Classic woofer, 6" Dayton RS for the mid, 1 1/8" Vifa textile dome tweet, new custom crossover, internal chamber for the mid, wall dampening), my center is in a custom built cabinet (2nd order xover w/ zobel, 2x Dayton RS 6" and a titanium Dayton tweet).  picture of the center opened up is attached.
> 
> ...



I have an old version of LEAP from when I was really into car audio back in the day (I used to have like $5k in my old truck, now I have like $5 in my new truck ). I also used a zobel in my design, it's almost kind of a habit now. Testing wise I'm a bit more ghetto than you, I use the same radio shack meter with just an old car audio test tones CD. 

Parts express is great, and both the Hi-Vi's and Vifa's are good values for the money. You have to be careful with them but sometimes they can turn out being real gems. I purchased the parts from these speaks from madisound, they are also great.

I wish PE had the epic buyouts like they used to... it's hard to find any amazing deals there anymore, although there are great deals galore.


----------



## NeotonicDragon3 (May 1, 2009)

This is embarrassing for me 

Speakers: 15 year old Labtec MCS-200, 9 year old JBL Pro, 3 Year old Dell A215 Altec Lansing
Speaker Special Features: 15 year old has Bass/Treble Controls...lol
Soundcard: Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Edition 
Audio Obsession Level: Audiophile and Bass Lover

I want some nice and new Speakers with a Subwoofer xD


----------



## Studabaker (May 1, 2009)

If you're strapped for cash the X-540s are the way to go.


----------



## DavidG (May 1, 2009)

NeotonicDragon3 said:


> This is embarrassing for me
> 
> Speakers: 15 year old Labtec MCS-200, 9 year old JBL Pro, 3 Year old Dell A215 Altec Lansing
> Speaker Special Features: 15 year old has Bass/Treble Controls...lol
> ...



you can get good with cheap price in any online store or auctions.


----------



## imperialreign (May 1, 2009)

or, if you're willing to spend some time with setup and be patient with shopping around . . .


you can find some wonderful treasures at local pawn shops!


The set of 4 vintage Pioneers I had posted earlier - found them at a local pawn shop for a total of $95.  Sure - they date back to the 70s . . . but they should've been selling for $95 EACH, even used, not for the whole set of 4.

But, like I said, it takes some patience to go through local pawn shops.  If you see something interesting, write down the manufacturer and the serial/model number on the back of the unit (as long as it hasn't faded) . . . go home and look it up - there's tons of sites dedicated to vintage audio equipment, and you should easily be able to find out what the potential purchase is capable of.

It takes some time and patience . . . but can be well worth the effort!


----------



## NeotonicDragon3 (May 1, 2009)

That is my Creative Settings :B
set on 4/4.1 Setup
Stereo Xpand


----------



## Studabaker (May 1, 2009)

NeotonicDragon3 said:


> [url]http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4555/gamemode.jpg[/URL] That is my Creative Settings :B
> set on 4/4.1 Setup
> Stereo Xpand



How do you change the 'Mode' in the Creative Console, BTW?  I've clicked/right-clicked everything and cannot figure it out.


----------



## NeotonicDragon3 (May 1, 2009)

Studabaker said:


> How do you change the 'Mode' in the Creative Console, BTW?  I've clicked/right-clicked everything and cannot figure it out.




You see the box right next to mode [bottom left]
i click it and it brings a box that changes the shiz.

on the other hand:
2 of my speakers randomly turned into Subwoofers!  nice bass lol


----------



## Apocolypse007 (May 1, 2009)

Speakers: Klipsch Promedia 2.1
Speaker Special Features: "control pod" on speaker with ports for external input and headphones, Adjustable subwoofer control on control pod, a crappy DIN cable
Soundcard: Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Value
Audio Obsession Level: Discerning listener

These speakers were awesome when I got them. Absolutely the best quality, this seemed to degrade a few years after with crackling, popping, hissing, and loss of Bass; then finally, the audio cuts completely out now and then. As it turns out, Klipsch has integrated a very crappy DIN cable from the subwoofer to the control pod that ruins what is otherwise a very nice setup.

The sound card is somewhat dated now, but still offers some nice options over onboard and saves me some CPU cycles in the process. I'd get X-Fi if i could (not creative though, I'd get the good one:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829156010)

If anyone knows a good cheap way to replace the DIN cable let me know. A simple google search will show this is not an uncommon problem with my setup.


----------



## Studabaker (May 1, 2009)

NeotonicDragon3 said:


> You see the box right next to mode [bottom left]
> i click it and it brings a box that changes the shiz.
> 
> on the other hand:
> 2 of my speakers randomly turned into Subwoofers!  nice bass lol



Hmm damn, missing on mine for some reason.  The other themes are there and everything, I guess it's just coz these are hacked drivers.


----------



## Steevo (May 1, 2009)

A kick drum in the same room without muffling will leave you with a "kicked inthe checst" feeling. A clean punch and rolloff, not a thud and sloppy resonation.

A guy at Ultimate Electronics place got offended when I made fun of his $2,900 subs. 


I prefer to isolate the speakers and tune them, then see how they interact, and go from there.


Dark side of the moon, Speak to me breathe is it clean enough to hear what is said at 36 seconds in? catch the little things about music that make it great, and make sure they shine. 


Switching from my Bose to my new Polks in the theater demanded a change in setup, my Bose did a mediocre job of articulating around 3Khz, and the Polks overpronounce from 2-6Khz on purpose to sound "cleaner" but with a huge falloff at lower frequencies.


----------



## BumbleBee (May 1, 2009)

Speakers are Logitech Z-5500, Logitech Z-680 which are discontinued pretty much a Z-5500 but subwoofer has less clarity and controller is similar to the Z-5300 I use them on my other computer. I also own a Logitech X-540 which are in my closet used to be on my other computer until they started to distort and did own a G51 but I blew the subwoofer.

Headset/Headphones are a Cyber Snipa Sonar 5.1 Headset (Gaming, not as good quality as my Sennheiser but it's multiple drivers makes it priceless for competitive gaming) and a Sennheiser HD515 Headphones (Movies and Music, much improved over my old HD202)

Soundcards are Auzentech X-Fi Prelude and Asus Xonar DX


----------



## HeadlessChicken (May 1, 2009)

ok, thanks to this thred and some bordom i did somethings

I cut off the stock cambrigesound works sat speekers, replaced with some RCA speekers from a 5.1 surround system(cant use with puter because i lack a card with digital encoding to feed it 5.1 audio for games) 

fron speekers are still the x3's center and "sub" chanels are handled by a ghetto mod, i cut off the left speeker and wired on the sub from that reciver set, yeah its not perfect, BUT its got enought power to drive that, and if i need the speekers whole again, i can splice the lefty back on  

I have a set of large paper cone speekers i will probbly connect in place of the side speekers eventuly(connected to the cambrige soundworks sub/amp unit) i tested and the amp has more then enought power to crank them WAY THE FUCK UP(couldnt take it to far, didnt wana wake anybody up and have the cops show up  )

eventuly i hope to beable to connect up my system to that reciver and just revert to 5.1 as it would mean less wires everywhere


----------



## Wile E (May 1, 2009)

HeadlessChicken said:


> if u really hate those headphones u can throw them my way



I couldn't even if I wanted to now. They just effin broke. I went to take them off, and the arm that holds the cup snapped. :shadedshu 

These are one of the worst computer purchases I've made.


----------



## HeadlessChicken (May 1, 2009)

try and rma them  (stupid razer, i like my habu but they could have made it lighter.....things heavy)

btw, out of all the 5.1 headsets i have seen/listened to, the turtle beach where the best, they where a bit tight on the head,but u can fix that(little bending/flexing looses them up) they have a bass driver as well as other speekers, like most every other set i have seen.


----------



## BumbleBee (May 1, 2009)

Wile E said:


> I couldn't even if I wanted to now. They just effin broke. I went to take them off, and the arm that holds the cup snapped. :shadedshu
> 
> These are one of the worst computer purchases I've made.



what are you going to replace them with? Sennheisers? I would consider another 5.1 Headset yes the quality is never going to be good as high end Stereo Headphones they compromise quality because of the drivers but they are true 5.1 and offer better positioning they shine in gaming. guess I don't need to tell you this 

Cyber Snipa Sonar 5.1, Tritton Audio Xtreme Series (AXPro, AX51, AXPro PC), eDimensional AudioFX 5.1, Saitek Cyborg 5.1, Turtle Beach (Earforce X-52, HPA2), Psyko 5.1, Zalman 5.1, Zykon H-3 5.1

think thats all the 5.1 Headsets.


----------



## A Cheese Danish (May 1, 2009)

Speakers: Bose Companion 5 speaker system
Speaker Special Features: lists them all here
Soundcard: onboard Realtek 
Audio Obsession Level: Bass all the way!

The sub pumps, and both speaker stands have 2 separate speakers in them. They are angled to really give the true 5.1 sound.
Great speakers. Bose does make good stuff  Games are crystal clear, trance/hard house/other techno, pumps really nice and clear.
Movies sound great from the low freq to the highs.


----------



## Mussels (May 1, 2009)

i just got new padding in today for my senn HD-555's.

hell i've had em 8+ years, it was time they got replaced 

On the topic of gaming, i find it easier to locate people in game with stereo headphones than 5.1... maybe i'm more used to it, maybe games are designed that way... but its very easy to locate a person firing a weapon with the headphones, while it takes far more effort on the speakers.


----------



## BumbleBee (May 1, 2009)

I definitely agree Headphones and Headsets are much better for Gaming than Speakers however sometimes I like to kick back and play Doom or a new single player game on my Logitech Z-5500. you must be used it Dolby Headphones and CMSS 3D can improve Stereo positioning but your still limited to 2 drivers.

by the way does anybody here own the Zykon H-3 or any Tritton? curious.


----------



## russianboy (May 1, 2009)

My setup, 25 foot RCA cable will arrive soon, and I will position them in a more stereo friendly area. Turntable coming soon.


----------



## Ketxxx (May 1, 2009)

Freak  Whole point in speakers is their placed either side of you not to one side, probably why you find locating people in games using ur speakers so tough


----------



## russianboy (May 1, 2009)

I don't game with them. I don't game at all anymore.

That is also only a temporary place for them.


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## ChaoticAtmosphere (May 1, 2009)

Lookee what I picked up with my last paycheck  Hooked up with Optical S/PDIF DTS Dolby. Music and my games sound sooooooooooo much better!!! Sweet!!! 






Sorry bout the cell phone quality pic....I guess next purchase will be a decent digital camera


----------



## Steevo (May 1, 2009)

Meh, new Fishers are only OK. My brother had a pair that were more mediocre club style speakers than audiophile quality. 


I have a Image front speaker, and that was the driving force to make me get the new polks for the front channels. Image makes some amazing speakers, but you need a good clean sub system to go with them, and I still find them a bit lacking in the 300-1Khz range.


----------



## russianboy (May 1, 2009)

It is not new. The Kenwood is from the 60's, and the fishers from the 80's.

The whole thing cost less than 20 dollars.


----------



## NeotonicDragon3 (May 1, 2009)

Studabaker said:


> Hmm damn, missing on mine for some reason.  The other themes are there and everything, I guess it's just coz these are hacked drivers.



ROFL i used the drivers that came with the Card... And why hack your drivers?
what are you improving?


----------



## Ketxxx (May 1, 2009)

ChaoticAtmosphere said:


> Lookee what I picked up with my last paycheck  Hooked up with Optical S/PDIF DTS Dolby. Music and my games sound sooooooooooo much better!!! Sweet!!!
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/090501/005.jpg
> 
> Sorry bout the cell phone quality pic....I guess next purchase will be a decent digital camera



Nice. I was going to get a set of those, but opted for new memory/soundcard/monitor instead. I might have to pick a set of those up now though


----------



## ChaoticAtmosphere (May 1, 2009)

*RE: Logitech Z-5500 500 Watt Digital Surround Sound*



Ketxxx said:


> Nice. I was going to get a set of those, but opted for new memory/soundcard/monitor instead. I might have to pick a set of those up now though



Do so, you won't regret it!!  I read in a review that when you space them out you lose the mids, so I was a little concerned but when I got them it was the first thing I did...my living room in my 1 bedroom apt. is my entertainment center hence why I bought them. I don't see any probs with the sound at all and what you lose in mids you can always "fix in the mix".

I always equalize out the mids anyway so I'm a happy camper with these babies!!  

Actually listening to some Satoshie Tomeii live@tokio right now and it's rockin'. I also listen to Metal and I don't need to adjust anything...though sometimes I need to lower the sub a bit when changing genres.

And I jump playing Crysis on Delta when they throw a grenade (no grenade warning on delta)


----------



## department76 (May 1, 2009)

russianboy said:


> It is not new. The Kenwood is from the 60's, and the fishers from the 80's.
> 
> The whole thing cost less than 20 dollars.



i put around $500 into re-vamping my Fishers (see post #100).. pretty much the only thing thats the ame is the cabinet, and even it had to be modified-- internal chamber for the mid and cut-out the existing 2" vent for a 3" one.  re-done they are audiophile DIY quality, the original paper cone mid and tweet didn't really do much at all for the highend.  funny, when i was taking out all the original stuff, i saw that the mid and tweet arent even independantly crossed over.  i guess fisher just assumed their natural roll-off would suffice


----------



## Studabaker (May 1, 2009)

NeotonicDragon3 said:


> ROFL i used the drivers that came with the Card... And why hack your drivers?
> what are you improving?



I have an Audigy running X-Fi drivers.  I didn't do it myself LOL.


----------



## oily_17 (May 1, 2009)

Well I just skimmed a bit..but I see some of you have built your own enclosures for speakers.

Well what about using car audio speakers for a home setup (custom boxes)...how you think they would stand up against mass produced items.??


----------



## department76 (May 1, 2009)

oily_17 said:


> Well I just skimmed a bit..but I see some of you have built your own enclosures for speakers.
> 
> Well what about using car audio speakers for a home setup (custom boxes)...how you think they would stand up against mass produced items.??



could be done.  the only problem is that 90% of all car speakers are optimized for open-baffle configurations.  that and manufactureres rarely provide recommended box sizes for car speakers.

you could make some pretty decent dipole speakers though (which are infinite baffle), ive been wanting to try that with a set of good component car speakers...


*infinite baffle = free-air


----------



## oily_17 (May 1, 2009)

department76 said:


> could be done.  the only problem is that 90% of all car speakers are optimized for open-baffle configurations.  that and manufactureres rarely provide recommended box sizes for car speakers.
> 
> you could make some pretty decent dipole speakers though (which are infinite baffle), ive been wanting to try that with a set of good component car speakers...
> 
> ...



I understand what you are saying about the free-air config.I have a good setup that I would like to take out of my car (and dont want to sell - would not get what they are worth) and have always thought of putting them in the room somewhere.

Always thought a perspex baffle with just the speaker sitting naked would look cool...but would ruin the sound.


----------



## department76 (May 2, 2009)

oily_17 said:


> I understand what you are saying about the free-air config.I have a good setup that I would like to take out of my car (and dont want to sell - would not get what they are worth) and have always thought of putting them in the room somewhere.
> 
> Always thought a perspex baffle with just the speaker sitting naked would look cool...but would ruin the sound.



i have seen designs on them before, but no clearcut way in designing them properly.  essentially its just a baord with the speakers mounted in it.  you could try and see how it works, speaker palcement will be crucial since the back-waves from the rear of the speakers will reflect around and cancel out with the front-generated sound waves.


safe solution would be a large sealed box.  i.e. 1cuft for a 6" speaker lol.  as the size of a sealed box increases, it appraoches the same air resistance of infinite-baffle.


infinte-baffle thread: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-speakers/1157-speaker-design.html


----------



## Wile E (May 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> what are you going to replace them with? Sennheisers? I would consider another 5.1 Headset yes the quality is never going to be good as high end Stereo Headphones they compromise quality because of the drivers but they are true 5.1 and offer better positioning they shine in gaming. guess I don't need to tell you this
> 
> Cyber Snipa Sonar 5.1, Tritton Audio Xtreme Series (AXPro, AX51, AXPro PC), eDimensional AudioFX 5.1, Saitek Cyborg 5.1, Turtle Beach (Earforce X-52, HPA2), Psyko 5.1, Zalman 5.1, Zykon H-3 5.1
> 
> think thats all the 5.1 Headsets.



Hey, thanks for that list. Yeah, I think another 5.1 set is in order, just for late night gaming.

How many of those have you listened to personally? Any recommendations?


----------



## ktr (May 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> by the way does anybody here own the Zykon H-3 or any Tritton? curious.



I just bought (and going to return on Monday) the Tritton axPC pro. It is average at best. The mid and low range are great, but the sub hisses very badly. The Tritton cannot seem to produce distinctive high range, it all gets baffled. The mic quality is absolutely pathetic...to much noise it excepts, and it muffles my voice. Plus the mic boom is very fragile and the whole headset is hurts after 30mins of wearing them (too much pressure). Now the surround sound ability is very poor. I barely make out the direction of the sound. I have seen better results with Creative CMSS virtual surround sound. If you want a loud bass'y headset, the they are great, but not for the high audiophile user.



Wile E said:


> Hey, thanks for that list. Yeah, I think another 5.1 set is in order, just for late night gaming.
> 
> How many of those have you listened to personally? Any recommendations?



IMO, 5.1 and headsets don't mix well...Dolby or CMSS seems the way to go for headsets.


----------



## Kursah (May 2, 2009)

Wile E said:


> Hey, thanks for that list. Yeah, I think another 5.1 set is in order, just for late night gaming.
> 
> How many of those have you listened to personally? Any recommendations?



Turtle Beach HPA2's FTW! 

Mine sound very good, 5.1 isn't the most accurate, but it does work very well in gaming. Has 4 drivers per cup, built in amp with level controls and master volume, comes with good quality splitters so you can run 2x 5.1 setups. The sound is pretty solid, more bass than I need, the sub is a tad muddy, but still does the job quite well. The mids and hi's are pretty damn clear, this headset sounds good and goes quite loud. The detatchable mic works very well too and is adjustable, top notch. I've had some experience with a couple 5.1 sets, the HPA2's were the best I'd ever used. I thought the Razer's you had and hated were similar to the HPA2's though...might wanna check, and if they are, you may not wanna get the same product twice, especially if you disliked em. I love my HPA2's, I'd be seriously bummed and have a tough time gaming, watching movies or listening to music w/o em.


----------



## Wile E (May 2, 2009)

ktr said:


> I just bought (and going to return on Monday) the Tritton axPC pro. It is average at best. The mid and low range are great, but the sub hisses very badly. The Tritton cannot seem to produce distinctive high range, it all gets baffled. The mic quality is absolutely pathetic...to much noise it excepts, and it muffles my voice. Plus the mic boom is very fragile and the whole headset is hurts after 30mins of wearing them (too much pressure). Now the surround sound ability is very poor. I barely make out the direction of the sound. I have seen better results with Creative CMSS virtual surround sound. If you want a loud bass'y headset, the they are great, but not for the high audiophile user.
> 
> 
> 
> *IMO, 5.1 and headsets don't mix well...Dolby or CMSS seems the way to go for headsets.*


Dolby and CMSS are ass on 2 channel headphones. The positional accuracy on a 5.1 set is infinitely better than a cheesy effect. Which is sad, because the positional accuracy of 5.1 headsets aren't all that great, especially compared to a proper 5.1 speaker setup.



Kursah said:


> Turtle Beach HPA2's FTW!
> 
> Mine sound very good, 5.1 isn't the most accurate, but it does work very well in gaming. Has 4 drivers per cup, built in amp with level controls and master volume, comes with good quality splitters so you can run 2x 5.1 setups. The sound is pretty solid, more bass than I need, the sub is a tad muddy, but still does the job quite well. The mids and hi's are pretty damn clear, this headset sounds good and goes quite loud. The detatchable mic works very well too and is adjustable, top notch. I've had some experience with a couple 5.1 sets, the HPA2's were the best I'd ever used. I thought the Razer's you had and hated were similar to the HPA2's though...might wanna check, and if they are, you may not wanna get the same product twice, especially if you disliked em. I love my HPA2's, I'd be seriously bummed and have a tough time gaming, watching movies or listening to music w/o em.


The big question, how is the build quality? The Razers are clearly made of chintzy and cheap plastic. You could tell right away that these headphones weren't worth $30, let alone the $80 I paid for them.


----------



## ktr (May 2, 2009)

Wile E said:


> Dolby and CMSS are ass on 2 channel headphones. The positional accuracy on a 5.1 set is infinitely better than a cheesy effect. Which is sad, because the positional accuracy of 5.1 headsets aren't all that great, especially compared to a proper 5.1 speaker setup.



Why bother paying the premium then...4 drivers in a single cup is no better that a single driver. My basic sennheiser's hd202 with CMSS is yielding better positional effects than a 5.1 headset. There is still going to be a cheesy virtual surround sound on both of them to compensate. Only way to get a true 5.1 sound is the have proper spaced out location for each speakers...something that a 5.1 headphone can never do on its own. 

That is my 2 cents.


----------



## Kursah (May 2, 2009)

My set has been very sturdy with a lot of use. Overall I was content with paying 55 bucks for my set and I felt like I got what I paid for. Dunno if that helps or not. 

The headset is pretty beefy, but very comfy, thick ear cup padding, the control module is solid, the plugs are decent, the cable is lengthy and is pretty thick. Like I said I'm happy with them, especially with what I paid for them. I can't vouche vs. the Razer's cause' I've never used the razers or even seen more than a picture of a set of them.



edit: I do gotta agree cmss on 2 channel isn't anything special, my TB's blow that emulation out of the water in the end. They might not be senn's, but they're damn good!


----------



## Wile E (May 2, 2009)

ktr said:


> Why bother paying the premium then...4 drivers in a single cup is no better that a single driver. My basic sennheiser's hd202 with CMSS is yielding better positional effects than a 5.1 headset. There is still going to be a cheesy virtual surround sound on both of them to compensate. Only way to get a true 5.1 sound is the have proper spaced out location for each speakers...something that a 5.1 headphone can never do on its own.
> 
> That is my 2 cents.


I have tried both, and the 5.1 headphones do, in fact, offer far superior positional accuracy than ANY virtual surround on a 2 channel headphone. I've tried all of the available virtual options, and even the crappy Razers outperformed them when it came to positional characteristics. (Even HRTF) Far from perfect, I agree, but better than 2 channel by leaps and bounds.


----------



## ktr (May 2, 2009)

Wile E said:


> I have tried both, and the 5.1 headphones do, in fact, offer far superior positional accuracy than ANY virtual surround on a 2 channel headphone. I've tried all of the available virtual options, and even the crappy Razers outperformed them when it came to positional characteristics. (Even HRTF) Far from perfect, I agree, but better than 2 channel by leaps and bounds.



I guess these Titton that I bought are just shitty 5.1 headsets...I cannot tell shit in positioning when play TF2 today.


----------



## Wile E (May 2, 2009)

ktr said:


> I guess these Titton that I bought are just shitty 5.1 headsets...I cannot tell shit in positioning when play TF2 today.



Well, that tells me to avoid that headset. lol. If they are worse than the Razers, it's a no-go for sure.


----------



## ktr (May 2, 2009)

I found the headset I WANT! http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/productdetail.asp?transid=502141


----------



## BumbleBee (May 2, 2009)

your basically paying for the positioning in gaming I would never buy a 5.1 headset for music or movies. did you play with the drivers of the Tritton? the Cyber Snipa Sonar 5.1 has horrible presets in fact some reviews even mark this as a con it sounds like my Sonars have superior bass to the Tritton you can buy them off their website they are $76 USD try reading some reviews they are very underrated.

Psyko's 5.1 look interesting, $299 USD not out yet but you can pre-order not that any of us will be spending that much on 5.1 cans I really want to look at the Zykons and Turtle Beach.


----------



## ktr (May 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> your basically paying for the positioning in gaming I would never buy a 5.1 headset for music or movies. did you play with the drivers of the Tritton? the Cyber Snipa Sonar 5.1 has horrible presets in fact some reviews even mark this as a con it sounds like my Sonars have superior bass to the Tritton only problem is I don't know any stores in America that sell them they are even hard to find in Canada and Europe.



I spent 3 hours on the Tritton control panel. Not many options, just select how many channels the input feed has (ch2,5,6,8) and select surround sound for output. Then I go to TF2, and 7.1 was enable automatically. But the positioning was minimal to non-existent. CMSS, though cheesy virtual surround effects, is still very distinctive in positioning. If your live in the west coast, Fry's Electronics started to sell Tritton.


----------



## BumbleBee (May 2, 2009)

yeah I edited my post. I wasn't talking about buying the Trittons in another thread I mentioned I wanted to try them. i'm trying to get a census on whats the best they all have pros and cons to build quality and performance my Sonars seem to be favoring right now and they are USB lol.


----------



## ChaoticAtmosphere (May 2, 2009)

ktr said:


> Why bother paying the premium then...4 drivers in a single cup is no better that a single driver. My basic sennheiser's hd202 with CMSS is yielding better positional effects than a 5.1 headset. There is still going to be a cheesy virtual surround sound on both of them to compensate. Only way to get a true 5.1 sound is the have proper spaced out location for each speakers...something that a 5.1 headphone can never do on its own.
> 
> That is my 2 cents.



I would like to add that while headphones might put you in the centre of the action (in your head) surround sound is incomparable.....PERIOD.

Since I set up my Z-5500s I am in awe. 

Someone please tell me how you can hear someone sneaking up on you when you have headphones on.


----------



## Mussels (May 2, 2009)

ChaoticAtmosphere said:


> I would like to add that while headphones might put you in the centre of the action (in your head) surround sound is incomparable.....PERIOD.
> 
> Since I set up my Z-5500s I am in awe.
> 
> Someone please tell me how you can hear someone sneaking up on you when you have headphones on.



by having good headphones


----------



## BumbleBee (May 2, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX_kcHTFYSo

he just has a sour taste in his mouth because of the Trittons. I don't blame him.

here is a good quote I couldn't of worded it any better.



> What About Surround Sound Speakers?
> Surround sound speakers certainly have their place in the gaming world. But they’re more skewed towards social interacting for when you’re gaming with mates, or enjoying a single-player title. The problem with surround sound speakers is, short of expensive equipment and perfect placement, it can be difficult to pinpoint sounds as accurately as with headphones. Sure, you’ll be able to differentiate your front left from your rear right, but you’ll usually have trouble distinguishing the various levels (game world heights or lows) of sound. When it comes to the online arena, you may be surprised by how much a pair of 5.1 (at least) surround sound headphones can make a difference.


----------



## ChaoticAtmosphere (May 2, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX_kcHTFYSo
> 
> he just has a sour taste in his mouth because of the Trittons. I don't blame him.
> 
> here is a good quote I couldn't of worded it any better.



Can I add a linky to a lame video of my speaker system??


----------



## imperialreign (May 2, 2009)

oily_17 said:


> Well what about using car audio speakers for a home setup (custom boxes)...how you think they would stand up against mass produced items.??




modern car audio speakers can produce some amazing sound . . . but getting them to work properly in a home environment can be challanging.  For starters, car speakers tned to have a lower resistance compared to home speakers (usually 2O or 4O compared to 6O or 8O); generally, car speakers have a higher nominal wattage requirement, as the drivers for the speaker itself tend to be a lot larger and more robust - car stereos therfore, are designed to push the proper amount of power to these units, whereas home stereos and recievers are designed for the higher impedance and lower power requirements of home speakers.

Not saying it can't be done - just that a proper setup would be a challange.

Then, there's the issue of an enclosure . . . car audio speakers tend to have very, very rigid cones - these, in turn, move a lot of air, both in front of, and behind the speaker itself.  If the enclosure isn't matched well for the speaker, it can muddy reproduction - in some cases even canceling out certain frequencies.






ChaoticAtmosphere said:


> Someone please tell me how you can hear someone sneaking up on you when you have headphones on.



you'd have to hear it to believe it.  5.1 headphones are much better for this, but, Creative's CMSS-3D feature, and having the console set up for headphones, can be quite amazing in itself.  Although, any 3D positioning feature is best suited for the more number of speakers you have, Creative's solution, IMHO, is better than any other manufacturers so far . . .


and it has a lot to do with their acquisition of Aureal and Aureal3D years ago, who had perfected many of the features that Creative used for EAX . . . most especially, sound positioning and occlusion.

I've heard CMSS-3D able to accomplish thigns with simple 2-channel headphones that ASUS' and Razer's 3D positioning can't even touch . . .


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## ktr (May 2, 2009)

imperialreign said:


> you'd have to hear it to believe it.  5.1 headphones are much better for this, but, Creative's CMSS-3D feature, and having the console set up for headphones, can be quite amazing in itself.  Although, any 3D positioning feature is best suited for the more number of speakers you have, Creative's solution, IMHO, is better than any other manufacturers so far . . .
> 
> 
> and it has a lot to do with their acquisition of Aureal and Aureal3D years ago, who had perfected many of the features that Creative used for EAX . . . most especially, sound positioning and occlusion.
> ...



That is the problem with all of the 5.1 USB headsets, your stuck with its own audio positioning software. But if one is to get a non USB 5.1 headset and use a X-FI sound card...I do bet the audio positioning will be pretty good.


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## imperialreign (May 2, 2009)

ktr said:


> That is the problem with all of the 5.1 USB headsets, your stuck with its own audio positioning software. But if one is to get a non USB 5.1 headset and use a X-FI sound card...I do bet the audio positioning will be pretty good.



I can't say ALL USB headsets . . . Razer's HP-1 is good . . . it only uses the USB connection to power the small speaker amp - each individual's channel is connected directly to the sound card mini-jacks.

But, not every manu's 5.1 headset is the same.

. . . and, I'm still patiently awaiting Razer's 7.1 . . .

would you believe I _do_ actually use every sound setup I have laying around? 

TBH, it's great for working with audio mods for games and such - I like to make sure everything sounds right for the most common setups


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## ktr (May 2, 2009)

imperialreign said:


> I can't say ALL USB headsets . . . Razer's HP-1 is good . . . it only uses the USB connection to power the small speaker amp - each individual's channel is connected directly to the sound card mini-jacks.
> 
> But, not every manu's 5.1 headset is the same.
> 
> ...



I was referring to headsets that use USB for signal and power.


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## Kursah (May 2, 2009)

ktr said:


> I found the headset I WANT! http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite/productdetail.asp?transid=502141



Not bad if you don't like bass, I've heard overall for mids and hi's they're great, bass is half-way non-existant even for some that amp the headset. I almost bought a pair when I gave my first HPA2's to a friend that needed a headset (he just had a kid and all..). There was a user here on TPU that had problems getting good sound out of them, I've read good and bad about them but they do look very comfy to say the least. I wish there was a place in town that had more headsets on display to try out for myself though, I will spend the time it takes to get the sound I desire or as close to it as possible out of whatever drivers I'm using. Definately not all bass, but enough to have a well rounded sound output is what I listen for. 

For now I'll stick with my HPA2's, they sound great, go loud, have decent positional audio that works well for movies and games, they come with a powered amp, just kickass. I've treated them pretty rough and they've held up very well.


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## ktr (May 2, 2009)

Kursah said:


> Not bad if you don't like bass, I've heard overall for mids and hi's they're great, bass is half-way non-existant even for some that amp the headset.



A couple of minutes with the equalizer will solve that. My cheap HD202 can pump some phat bass if once you up the low range.


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## Kursah (May 2, 2009)

That's what I've heard about other Senn's, but quite a few said the PC350's were lacking in comparison to some older Senn's, and getting an HD series w/o mic would be better if you wanna spend money on a pair of Senn's cans. I agree a little time with an EQ should get the job done though.


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## Mussels (May 3, 2009)

ktr said:


> A couple of minutes with the equalizer will solve that. My cheap HD202 can pump some phat bass if once you up the low range.



the 202's have more bass than most sennheisers, i used to own a pair.


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## BumbleBee (May 3, 2009)

me too. hated them. love my HD515. reason why I didn't buy the eDimensional AudioFX 5.1 over the Cyber Snipa Sonar 5.1 because I didn't want my blood vessels to pop every time a grenade went off. you know what would be cool? if they had some kind of directional audio in gaming engines have it related to the texture of a wall ie wood, steel, concrete. because it's cheap to crouch behind a concrete wall and hear someone 50 ft away.


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## ChaoticAtmosphere (May 3, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> me too. hated them. love my HD515. reason why I didn't buy the eDimensional AudioFX 5.1 over the Cyber Snipa Sonar 5.1 because I didn't want my blood vessels to pop every time a grenade went off. you know what would be cool? if they had some kind of directional audio in gaming engines have it related to the texture of a wall ie wood, steel, concrete. because it's cheap to crouch behind a concrete wall and hear someone 50 ft away.


That's too much....why is everything true funny or funny true???


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## imperialreign (May 3, 2009)

BumbleBee said:


> me too. hated them. love my HD515. reason why I didn't buy the eDimensional AudioFX 5.1 over the Cyber Snipa Sonar 5.1 because I didn't want my blood vessels to pop every time a grenade went off. you know what would be cool? if they had some kind of directional audio in gaming engines have it related to the texture of a wall ie wood, steel, concrete. because it's cheap to crouch behind a concrete wall and hear someone 50 ft away.





The software for such features is available - it's up to devs if they want to use it or not.  The two biggest audio SDKs available:

Creative have EAX, which includes the ability to have occlusion effects.

OpenAL is available for free - although many of the effects aren't as great as EAX 5.0HD, it's better than nothing.

Some game engines have ambient effects coded into the engine itself.  Crysis is one such game - it doesn't make use of either EAX or OpenAL, but has some astounding environmental and occlusion capabilities.  For the most part, any dev team using someone else's engine which has these capabilites could use them as well - if they'd just learn how to use them.

Some game engines use a combination of a major audio SDK, as well as their own tweaks.

Again, I stand behind my theory that most game devs simply overlook audio effects as not being worht the hassle, when, quite the contrary, it adds to the immersion level.  When audio is developed well, it helps add polish to what might be a great game.

I was never much impressed with Crysis - either gameplay or graphics - but the audio capabilites were great and very well done.  There's only one little annoyance that bothered me, but for the devs to have developed everything on their own, without making use of an major audio SDK, is very impressive, IMHO.


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## Wile E (May 6, 2009)

imperialreign said:


> I can't say ALL USB headsets . . . Razer's HP-1 is good . . . it only uses the USB connection to power the small speaker amp - each individual's channel is connected directly to the sound card mini-jacks.
> 
> But, not every manu's 5.1 headset is the same.
> 
> ...


HP-1 = shit. I hate mine. I should've bought the Turtle Beach 5.1 set.


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## Grings (May 6, 2009)

Speakers. Tannoy 611 Front, 607 Rear, Acoustic Energy Aegis Evo Centre
Amp. Yamaha RXV795a (had a sony strdb 940b(uk) stolen a while back...)
Soundcard. Auzentech Xplosion (in DTS via digi co-ax)
Former Audiophile, I have actually been considering replacing all this gear (though i love my tannoys too much, had them for about 14-15 years now)


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## vbx (May 6, 2009)

I have a logitech 5.1 system and it's horrible.  Basically has no tweeters in any of the 5 speakers.  Nothing but mids...


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## ChaoticAtmosphere (May 6, 2009)

vbx said:


> I have a logitech 5.1 system and it's horrible.  Basically has no tweeters in any of the 5 speakers.  Nothing but mids...



Sad to hear that, are they the Z-5500s?

My Z-5500s sound spectacular!!


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## vbx (May 6, 2009)

ChaoticAtmosphere said:


> Sad to hear that, are they the Z-5500s?
> 
> My Z-5500s sound spectacular!!



No they are the x530.  As you can see, no tweeters. 







Those little tweeters that the creatives speakers have makes a huge difference.


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## Mussels (May 6, 2009)

vbx said:


> No they are the x530.  As you can see, no tweeters.
> 
> http://www.logos.ba/shop/products_pictures/X530Velika.jpg
> 
> Those little tweeters that the creatives speakers have makes a huge difference.



i had those. upgraded to the X-540's, they sound quite a lot better.


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## department76 (May 6, 2009)

vbx said:


> No they are the x530.  As you can see, no tweeters.
> 
> Those little tweeters that the creatives speakers have makes a huge difference.




rofl.  a friend of mine has those and he thought they were awesome when he got them, especially the sub.  then again, he's one of those people that didn't acknowledge the problem of having the two surrounds 12ft behind the listening location, spread only 2 ft apart, and aimed at the ceiling 

personally i thought they sounded like cardboard, but i guess that's typical for a lot of low-end computer speakers.

edit:  was just reading the description from logitech on those...  they make the "FDD2" crap sound more like they are splitting up the spectrum somehow and treating one of those little woofers as a tweeter and leaving the other as mid/midbass.  LOL!  but it looks fancy to have 2 identical drivers in each speaker!


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## Studabaker (May 6, 2009)

vbx said:


> I have a logitech 5.1 system and it's horrible.  Basically has no tweeters in any of the 5 speakers.  Nothing but mids...



If you don't have a multi-band Equalizer with your audio hardware, get something good and tweak the EQ.  The problem is not with the speakers.


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## vbx (May 6, 2009)

Studabaker said:


> If you don't have a multi-band Equalizer with your audio hardware, get something good and tweak the EQ.  The problem is not with the speakers.



They system I have included everything even this 5.1 speaker. Sony also included this "Mastering Studio equalizer" which allows you to set up, up to 8 different bands. or whatever. 
No matter how I adjust it, there is no clean/crisps "highs" that a couple of tweeters can give you.


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## morpha (May 6, 2009)

I like the logitech x530's... my new z5500's sound much better than them. But the x530's are a great CHEAP set of speakers.


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## vbx (May 6, 2009)

Can I pop open 2 of the speakers and connect some car tweeters onto the 2 front speakers?

Or, I can just sell them and get the Creative T6100.


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## Hayder_Master (May 7, 2009)

i have creative 7.1 speakers , i think wan i ask some questions later


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## ChaoticAtmosphere (May 8, 2009)

I'm listening to some Deep Dish GU025 Moscow right now and my Z-5500s feel like keeping stereo alive!!!!!


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## yogurt_21 (May 8, 2009)

Speakers: Altec lansing VS4121
Speaker Special Features: Desk hub for headphones, Unique Downfiring midrange.
Soundcard: Onboard Realtek® ALC888.
Headphone/Headset: Sony old school.
Audio Obsession LevelC Casual, Home Theatre Moderate.


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