# CPU Upgrade: P8600 to T9900



## hoax32 (Apr 18, 2013)

Servus TPU Forums! 
I'm upgrading the CPU of my T500 ThinkPad soon and I just wanted to ask yall what I can expect. (Full system specs under my profile)

I currently have a Core 2 Duo P8600 3MB L2 @ 2.40GHz.
The T9900 has 6MB L2 and runs at 3.06GHz.

Im using a customized full copper heat sink.

What is the T9900 comparable to?
Does it get anywhere close to i3 performance?
Is it comparable to a mobile 2.20GHz i3?

Also - I play a lot of games on the T500 and one of them is GTA IV.
I get 40-50 FPS on ALL LOWEST 800x480.
I can go to 1280x800 (20-30FPS) but I prefer frame rate over looks.

*While playing GTA IV for example task manager tells me that both cores are utilized around  %95. *

Does that mean the the CPU is the bottleneck?
Can I expect a increase in frame rates after the upgrade?

Thanks pals!


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## Frick (Apr 18, 2013)

I don't know about gaming, but it looks like it's pretty good in CPU bound stuff:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-2-Duo-T9900-Notebook-Processor.23802.0.html


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## BarbaricSoul (Apr 18, 2013)

Personally, I don't think this upgrade will net you much benefit. The only thing your going to gain is a little bit faster clock speed and little more L2 cache. Yes, the T9900 will be faster, but you'll barely notice it. Both CPUs are core2duo CPUs. As to how it will compare to i3, it depends on the exact i3 and the application your running. Single thread performance, the two proc should be close with the T9900 barely losing out to the i3. In multi-thread performance, the i3, considering it is hyper-threaded, will beat up the T9900.


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## hoax32 (Apr 18, 2013)

BarbaricSoul I have the feeling that your profile picture is there only to mug me! :')
I'm getting the CPU for $80 so I was just wondering if it was worth the +3MB L2 and 600MHz per core.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 18, 2013)

customised full copper heatsink?? Pics plz, and also screen caps of your temps.


As for swapping it out, i dont see why not if you cooling can handle it


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## hoax32 (Apr 18, 2013)

FreedomEclipse said:


> customised full copper heatsink?? Pics plz, and also screen caps of your temps.



I'm off to work - will take some pics when I come back.
Had to cut out some plastics to make it fit. 
U don't wanna know what a pain that was!


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## Hood (Apr 18, 2013)

Wow, that's an expensive upgrade.  To gauge the relative performance of CPUs, I use this website; http://www.cpubenchmark.net/mid_range_cpus.html 
The T9900 is on the High Mid Range CPU page, with current price around $400, 2359 CPU marks.  Your P8600 scores 1506 CPU marks, quite a ways down the list.  Unless you're getting this part for little or no money, it isn't worth it, and I doubt it will help much in gaming.


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## hoax32 (Apr 18, 2013)

hood said:


> wow, that's an expensive upgrade.  To gauge the relative performance of cpus, i use this website; http://www.cpubenchmark.net/mid_range_cpus.html
> the t9900 is on the high mid range cpu page, with current price around $400, 2359 cpu marks.  Your p8600 scores 1506 cpu marks, quite a ways down the list.  Unless you're getting this part for little or no money, it isn't worth it, and i doubt it will help much in gaming.



$80


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## brandonwh64 (Apr 18, 2013)

80$??? That not really an upgrade for the money really.


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## hoax32 (Apr 18, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> 80$??? That not really an upgrade for the money really.



So you say it's not worth it?
The benchmark results 2 posts above look tempting.


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## brandonwh64 (Apr 18, 2013)

hoax32 said:


> So you say it's not worth it?
> The benchmark results 2 posts above look tempting.



Passmark really doesn't show much of how it will effect day to day tasks.


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## hoax32 (Apr 18, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> Passmark really doesn't show much of how it will effect day to day tasks.



My P8600 reaches %97 usage (both cores) when running GTA IV so I suspect that it's the bottleneck.


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## brandonwh64 (Apr 18, 2013)

hoax32 said:


> My P8600 reaches %97 usage (both cores) when running GTA IV so I suspect that it's the bottleneck.



More than likely the T9900 will as well. The game is not designed to run on a laptop regardless. Hell I had trouble with the game on a Phenom II 940 with 4GB DDR3 and a GTX 260.


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## hoax32 (Apr 18, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> More than likely the T9900 will as well. The game is not designed to run on a laptop regardless. Hell I had trouble with the game on a Phenom II 940 with 4GB DDR3 and a GTX 260.



I get 38-50FPS (low 30's in intense scenes)
That's when my CPU caps.
I was hoping that x2 the L2 Cache and 600MHz extra per core would help gain a few FPS.


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## brandonwh64 (Apr 18, 2013)

hoax32 said:


> I get 38-50FPS (low 30's in intense scenes)
> That's when my CPU caps.
> I was hoping that x2 the L2 Cache and 600MHz extra per core would help gain a few FPS.



It may but barely, You should look to getting a higher end laptop (something quad core with a GTX 4xx or HD6xxx). Upgrading something that old is a waste of money for the small performance gains you will make.


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## hoax32 (Apr 18, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> It may but barely, You should look to getting a higher end laptop (something quad core with a GTX 4xx or HD6xxx). Upgrading something that old is a waste of money for the small performance gains you will make.



I just got this unit for $200 looking brand new.
A $200 Like New ThinkPad was a no brainer for me especially since it's the model with switchable graphics.
I mainly got it to run Skyrim and it does the job well @ 1280x800 with med detail (no AA).
It's just GTA that bothers me.
It runs perfectly on low res but I would love to bump it up to at least 1024x768.
With the P8600 I end up getting 30FPS which is a little low that's why I was thinking of upgrading the CPU since it's the bottleneck.
The GPU is never on max load when running GTA - it caps @ mid-%80 telling me that there is still some space to turn up detail/resolution.

Please correct me if im wrong.


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## RCoon (Apr 18, 2013)

hoax32 said:


> I just got this unit for $200 looking brand new.
> A $200 Like New ThinkPad was a no brainer for me especially since it's the model with switchable graphics.
> I mainly got it to run Skyrim and it does the job well @ 1280x800 with med detail (no AA).
> It's just GTA that bothers me.
> ...



It's not worth the money, but it's an option you can do if you wish.
General consensus is the price is arguable for the upgrade. If you want to drop that $80 then just do it.


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## brandonwh64 (Apr 18, 2013)

hoax32 said:


> I just got this unit for $200 looking brand new.
> A $200 Like New ThinkPad was a no brainer for me especially since it's the model with switchable graphics.
> I mainly got it to run Skyrim and it does the job well @ 1280x800 with med detail (no AA).
> It's just GTA that bothers me.
> ...



The laptop is quite old. You may have JUST bought it in newish or recertified/warehouse condition but the laptop was released around 2008 and was not meant for gaming at its release. Yes it does come with a low end ATI card but will it handle high end games? NOT in its life. Its just not worth a upgrade for such an old laptop.


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## hoax32 (Apr 18, 2013)

I think it does pretty decent for it's age. 
The laptop has bin "RENEWED" by Lenovo in Q3 2012. (new plastics and Motherboard)
Left 4 Dead 2 Runs on almost MAX (1680x1050 - all high except AA)
But then again it's nothing compared to GTA - that's why I'm considering the CPU.
Some people have to understand that old hardware doesn't mean it won't do the job and that not every 1 needs the reflection in rain or the extra smoke effects. (just examples)
For example if I don't need AA I can get the same frame rate with a 2011 GPU vs a 2013 GPU.  I'm used to low detail. - What can I say!?


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## RCoon (Apr 18, 2013)

hoax32 said:


> I think it does pretty decent for it's age.
> The laptop has bin "RENEWED" by Lenovo in Q3 2012. (new plastics and Motherboard)
> Left 4 Dead 2 Runs on almost MAX (1680x1050 - all high except AA)
> But then again it's nothing compared to GTA - that's why I'm considering the CPU.
> ...



Why are you arguing against advice you've asked for? xD


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## hoax32 (Apr 18, 2013)

RCoon said:


> Why are you arguing against advice you've asked for? xD



how ? 
I'm using the information you guys provided including benchmarks and pricing.
I just disagree with some people's idea of dated hardware.

Sarcastic example:

#1: Can u run Tomb Raider on max? 
#2: No but I can on medium-low 
#1: Get something new!! 

I do appreciate all the help though!
The goal of getting a T9900 would be faster video converting and a few extra FPS.


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## RCoon (Apr 18, 2013)

hoax32 said:


> how ?
> I'm using the information you guys provided including benchmarks and pricing.
> I just disagree with some people's idea of dated hardware.
> 
> ...



I concur some old hardware is *capable* it's just lots of people dont like feeding a race horse with 2 legs, if you can understand that analogy. By all means, fill your boots if you want more juice from it.


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## Hood (Apr 18, 2013)

hoax32 said:


> $80



Sorry, my browser didn't refresh.  For $80, I'd be tempted to give it a try, as long as you feel your cooling setup can handle the bump from 25w to 35w TDP, a 40% increase. Should increase CPU performance by 25%. Hope it works out.


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## hoax32 (Apr 18, 2013)

Hood said:


> Sorry, my browser didn't refresh.  For $80, I'd be tempted to give it a try, as long as you feel your cooling setup can handle the bump from 25w to 35w TDP, a 40% increase. Should increase CPU performance by 25%. Hope it works out.



Yep it's super temping.
I guess I will give it a try.


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## Cheeseball (Apr 18, 2013)

An $80 upgrade for a $200 laptop that can play any game (even on low settings) is _still_ a better bargain than getting a brand new $650+ laptop. That's a $370 difference.

Besides, the T9900 is the highest end mobile chip of the Core 2 era, aside from the X9100.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 18, 2013)

For GTA you really need to have a quad core CPU to make it worth playing really. Its one of the worst ported games over to PC from console in the last few years. The T9900 is still a dual core, just boosted clock speeds, with cache. It will improve performance, but I think you will still be a bit disappointed in the overall performance of the laptop in that particular title. 

But go for it, always fun to mess with new hardware.

Try and find a Core 2 Quad mobile processor 

Like this, cheaper then that T9900

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core-...6MH-/111053669424?pt=CPUs&hash=item19db508430


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## linoliveira (Apr 18, 2013)

^ This! A quad would serve you better overall, besides poorly threaded games/apps.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 18, 2013)

the problem i see with putting a C2QM in is that its a different architecture and theres a small chance the laptops bios might not recognise it. Its something thats been going on for a long time now... OEMs lock their laptops down to only the existing hardware it left the factory with making upgrading difficult as you need to find a whitelisted bios that has been de-restricted - Its still an on going practise by many OEMs to prevent tampering.

only boutique laptop manufacturers have their bios's unlocked, but given the price you pay for one. If they didnt unlock it then it would be giving you the keys to a free Ferrari that has been completely parted out piece by piece. you're not gonna be able to drive it any time soon plus to have to shoulder the costs for the rebuild.

but if we were to pit the Q9000 head to head with the T9900, the Q9000 will take a serious beat down with single threaded apps. and most likely have some sort of adverse effect on everyday tasks and usage unless the bulk of the apps used are multi-threaded.

Being Quad core will help but i dont think it would help as much due to major difference in clock speed and 'straight line' performance of the T9900.

Im just babbling now but think of it what you will.


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## Cheeseball (Apr 18, 2013)

That C2QM is good, but it's only running at 2 GHz, so yeah, single-threaded apps are gonna cry compared to the T9900/X9100.


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## linoliveira (Apr 18, 2013)

Just thrown a search on ebay, and this came out.

Still 230Mhz more than the Q9000


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 18, 2013)

$45 more for a 230mhz increase over the Q9000? now that is terrible value


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## linoliveira (Apr 18, 2013)

FreedomEclipse said:


> $45 more for a 230mhz increase over the Q9000? now that is terrible value



ahh yes my bad, misread the price on the Q9000 and was with the 80$ price tag in mid.


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## hoax32 (Apr 19, 2013)

Overclocked my GPU.

Core from 597Mhz to 770MHz 
GDDR3 MEM from 694 to 930MHz

~%31 OC both Memory and Core - I'm happy

3D Mark06 gives me a 5307 vs 4103 @ stock.
GTA 4 now playable @ 1024x768 all low - high texture - 40-60FPS. (no command line tweaks)

The T500 is NOT compatible with a Core 2 Quad.
That's why I was looking into a Core 2 Duo Extreme / high end model.

That GPU is sucking out some power alright.


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## linoliveira (Apr 19, 2013)

temps? :b


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## hoax32 (Apr 19, 2013)

linoliveira said:


> temps? :b



1 hour furmark tops out at 84*C.


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## linoliveira (Apr 19, 2013)

Holy jesus! Dude you got some serious cooling on that laptop. My 9300GTS tops out 110ºC at stock speeds


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## hoax32 (Apr 19, 2013)

linoliveira said:


> Holy jesus! Dude you got some serious cooling on that laptop. My 9300GTS tops out 110ºC at stock speeds



1st page - full copper cooler customized 
adding pics soon


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## insane 360 (Apr 19, 2013)

i'm in for pics, always like pushing older "cheap" hardware to do more than it should...

*ot* i have an hp touchsmart, older one, but it has an mxm slot on it, i'm really itching to find a 9600m to slap in it and rig/get some cooling on it.  it won't be anything special, but i think its neat and would play company of heroes and the like on it...

good luck with your t9900, sounds like a good deal and you will see some improvements!


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## SystemViper (Apr 19, 2013)

Hood said:


> Sorry, my browser didn't refresh.  For $80, I'd be tempted to give it a try, as long as you feel your cooling setup can handle the bump from 25w to 35w TDP, a 40% increase. Should increase CPU performance by 25%. Hope it works out.



i agree, if you can afford the 80.00 then give it a whirl, but i also read that you can upgrade video, what is the solution in that direction.,

plus just remembert that more heat is in your future so you need to compensate for that.

i didn't see that heatsink anywhere?

keep us posted, i am interested in the results


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## hoax32 (Apr 19, 2013)

I don't think I can upgrade the video. (soldered)
Unless I manage to unsolder it and replace it with something compatible.
I can OC the crap out of it though. 
I'm going to try to remove the MSI Afterburn limitations for OCing and see how far I can push the clocks before I reach 90*C or instability.
I also got a power adapter with more Watt today. (90W vs 65W)
Really want to push this baby.
I guess ima add some more heat pipes to the heat sink if I cut out some of the magnesium frame.


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## insane 360 (Apr 19, 2013)

wonder if you can also adjust the voltages?  i've got a newer dell with amd's switchable graphics (7670m) and i can't overclock it or adjust voltages, its locked down hard i believe...

i think this is a very cool project


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## hoax32 (Apr 19, 2013)

insane 360 said:


> wonder if you can also adjust the voltages?  i've got a newer dell with amd's switchable graphics (7670m) and i can't overclock it or adjust voltages, its locked down hard i believe...
> 
> i think this is a very cool project




try to enable power play and plug in the laptop.
set ith to high performance in the catalyst control center when plugged in and try using 
MSI afterburn [UNLOCKED] - that should do the trick.
Power play disabled even though locks the clock to max, doesn't allow any adjustment - It locks down the core.
Enabling it allows changes INCLUDING clock increase which it doesn't report to other programs.
That's why you have to run MSI afterburn [UNLOCKED MODE] and OC it.


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## insane 360 (Apr 19, 2013)

after i was thinking about it i searched a little different in google and found how to unlock msi afterburner, i'm getting ready to run some torture test to see what my temps are like, then i'm going to start playing with the clocks!

you've been an inspiration!


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## hoax32 (Apr 19, 2013)

insane 360 said:


> after i was thinking about it i searched a little different in google and found how to unlock msi afterburner, i'm getting ready to run some torture test to see what my temps are like, then i'm going to start playing with the clocks!
> 
> you've been an inspiration!



Just a little part time scientist!


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## insane 360 (Apr 19, 2013)

still in for pics, and not trying to thread jack, but success taste so sweet,  just started playing, only bumping small amounts but so far 56c on my gpu with 5% bump so far...hoax32, you've just made my weekend fun!


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## hoax32 (Apr 19, 2013)

insane 360 said:


> still in for pics, and not trying to thread jack, but success taste so sweet,  just started playing, only bumping small amounts but so far 56c on my gpu with 5% bump so far...hoax32, you've just made my weekend fun!



glad to hear that. 
It seems like this is the only reliable way to OC locked laptop GPU's without modding the bios.
Pics coming soon.


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