# AMD Zen 2 Memory Performance Scaling with Ryzen 9 3900X



## W1zzard (Jul 7, 2019)

We take a close look at memory scaling on AMD's new Zen 2 Ryzen 3900X, testing both application and gaming performance at seven different memory speed and timing combinations ranging from 2400 MHz all the way up to 4000 MHz.

*Show full review*


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## TheLostSwede (Jul 7, 2019)

So glad I got that 3600 RAM, it looks like it's the sweet spot to be at.


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## Metroid (Jul 7, 2019)

Thanks for the review, the only way I guess to test the 3733mhz is xmp profile. As we can see memory wise 3600 is the best, however the difference is less than i thought it would be, close to 5%, from bottom to top and most of the times at 2% from  bottom to top, so best thing is dont waste your money getting a better memory with tighter timings, lax the timings and put it at 3600 or at the best highest possible speed but make sure lower than or equal 3733mhz.


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## Zubasa (Jul 7, 2019)

Metroid said:


> Thanks for the review, the only way I guess to test the 3733mhz is xmp profile. As we can see memory wise 3600 is the best, however the difference is less than i thought it would be, close to 5%, from bottom to top and most of the times at 2% from  bottom to top, so best thing is dont waste your money getting a better memory with tighter timings, lax the timings and put it at 3600 or at the best highest possible speed but make sure lower than or equal 3733mhz.


It is what I expect with the doubling of L3 cache on Zen2, bigger caches hides memory latency better and thus less reliant on ram speed.


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## W1zzard (Jul 7, 2019)

Metroid said:


> Thanks for the review, the only way I guess to test the 3733mhz is xmp profile


Not gonna happen, at least on my CPU, unless you reduce the sped of Infinity Fabric, which kinda defeats the point of 3733 in the first place


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## Metroid (Jul 7, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Not gonna happen, at least on my CPU, unless you reduce the sped of Infinity Fabric, which kinda defeats the point of 3733 in the first place



So you think that even with xmp profile it will not work? So we will never have a 3733mhz memory linked 1:1 to infinity fabric as lisa stated?


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## jesdals (Jul 7, 2019)

Nice test and good to know when considering a new build


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## W1zzard (Jul 7, 2019)

Metroid said:


> So you think that even with xmp profile it will not work? So we will never have a 3733mhz memory linked 1:1 to infinity fabric as lisa stated?


Definitely not on my cpu sample, I tried. 1800 is max IF on it


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## Metroid (Jul 7, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Definitely not on my cpu sample, I tried. 1800 is max IF on it



Ah okay, thanks, it might have at the moment probably to be an issue somehow, maybe a motherboard bios update might fix that. Thanks very much for the review, very concise.


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## Mirkoskji (Jul 7, 2019)

So basically, if you're not interested that much on having the 3 fps boost, you could potentially buy a ddr4 3000 or 2933, spending something less, and still have pretty good performance? is it right?


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## _UV_ (Jul 7, 2019)

That is really nice, i can grab pair of used 8GB 2400 RAM as a starter kit for X570 and 3950X, and buy higher speed more density a bit later. Finally time to upgrade my main rig to get 3-8x performance.


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## junglist724 (Jul 7, 2019)

That's some really high latency DDR4-4000


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## TheGuruStud (Jul 7, 2019)

3600 CL16 is going to be the sweet spot. It's dirt cheap. Buy some C/E die 3200 and OC. I got 32GB for $126.


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## TheLostSwede (Jul 7, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Definitely not on my cpu sample, I tried. 1800 is max IF on it


This is not directly CPU related, apparently, at least for the time being, most of the board makers have limited their boards to DDR4 3600, as DDR4 3733 is unstable and they seemingly didn't want to chance it. It might appear over time, but it depends on AGESA improvements from AMD I guess.


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## windwhirl (Jul 7, 2019)

Well, for me the most important thing from this is that I don't have to worry about cherry-picking memory kits. That's a freaking nightmare here (etailers here sometimes don't specify the exact model they're selling, or sometimes you buy a memory kit that should be XX1234 and ends up being XX1233 or XX1235 or something). And I don't feel like going with a QVL list to a brick-and-mortar store.

Thanks TPU for all the reviews released today and specifically for this one, which had me worried more than anything else.


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## bug (Jul 7, 2019)

That low memory hit in single channel might be a bonus for mobile parts. Often the cheaper laptops come with a single DIMM of memory.


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## B-Real (Jul 7, 2019)

Thank you W1zzard for the diversified tests. You made an X470-X570 comparison, a PCI-E 4.0 - 3.0 - 2.0 comparison and memory speed comparison. Great work, really.


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## bug (Jul 7, 2019)

B-Real said:


> Thank you for the diversified tests. You made an X470-X570 comparison, a PCI-E 4.0 - 3.0 - 2.0 comparison and memory speed comparison. Great work, really.


@W1zzard has already said this has been the busiest week at TPU since forever. He wasn't lying


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## Zubasa (Jul 7, 2019)

Mirkoskji said:


> So basically, if you're not interested that much on having the 3 fps boost, you could potentially buy a ddr4 3000 or 2933, spending something less, and still have pretty good performance? is it right?


That really depends on the pricing you get, now a days it is often about the same price for DDR4 3200 CL16 vs 3000.
Even DDR4 3600 CL17 is not really that much more in many cases.
DDR4 3200 CL14 is often the more expensive kits.


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## W1zzard (Jul 7, 2019)

bug said:


> @W1zzard has already said this has been the busiest week at TPU since forever. He wasn't lying


There's 6 more reviews coming for nvidia super, soon


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## Tomgang (Jul 7, 2019)

So based on this, it looks like Ryzen 3000 likes low timmings on memory maybe more than high memory clock. 3600 MHz seems to give the best price vs. performance gain and then just get two dims rated for 3600 MHz and find the pair of dimms that has the lowest timmings possible or you cut maybe find dimms with higher memory clock rating, but still set them to 3600 MHz and then press timmings even lower as that shut be possible then.

So if i get ryzen 3000. I will either chose 3600 MHz rated dimms with the lowest timmings ratings or get a pair that has high memory clock ratting and still set them to 3600 MHz and press timmings from there as low as possible.


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## A.Stables (Jul 7, 2019)

"We did run into some problems when playing with the settings, though. The latest BIOS of our ASRock X570 Taichi motherboard has a strange bug that overrides your CAS latency input sometimes. For example, CL17 could simply not be set, and it would instead apply 18T—the same happened in Ryzen Master. "

Gear down setting in bios? Zen likes division of 2. 14, 16, 18 etc


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## bug (Jul 7, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> There's 6 more reviews coming for nvidia super, soon


And there I was thinking you guys were slacking off


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## shmuck (Jul 7, 2019)

So basically virtually imperceptible FPS gains for higher bandwidth RAMs at higher resolutions? I was thinking of getting a pair of 3600 CL17 at first, but I reckon 3200 CL16 for ~60% of the price will be more than enough.


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## W1zzard (Jul 7, 2019)

shmuck said:


> So basically virtually imperceptible FPS gains for higher bandwidth RAMs at higher resolutions? I was thinking of getting a pair of 3600 CL17 at first, but I reckon 3200 CL16 for ~60% of the price will be more than enough.


Yup, and the latency matters too


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## gupsterg (Jul 7, 2019)

Thanks for all the reviews great read W1zzard.


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## skline00 (Jul 8, 2019)

Thank you Wizzard. I use Gskill Flare-X DDR4-3200 in both my 2700x rig an my 9900k rig. Solid and FAST!


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## PYRO1125 (Jul 8, 2019)

Awesome review thank you. I'm going to upgrade my 2700x to a 3900x soon and now I'm using Flare X 3200mhz cl 14 16gb so I should be fine it looks like no reason to OC the ram or buy a new kit if I'm mainly gaming and very light encoding?


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## Minus Infinity (Jul 8, 2019)

Another site was using 3600 CL16, which looks like what will be needed to improve over 3200 CL14. No use going past 3733 as Infinity fabric speeds drops by half.


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## turbogear (Jul 8, 2019)

I am using 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB DDR4-3200 CL14 on Ryzen 2700x. 

Nice to see that the performance difference to 3600 is not that much. 

I will keep these.
I will most probably also keep my ASUS Crosshair VII and just upgrade the processor.
I hope TPU will also review 3800x for comparison to see how much performance difference is there to 3700x. 

I will wait for a time before upgrading maybe until end of August for ASUS to iron out bugs for its C7H bios.
ASUS secrued up the new bios on C7H. With  bios 2406, the mouse does not work under bios and my memory does not work at D.O.C.P profile. 
With 2304 everything works fine for 2700x. I am not sure if all will be fine on new processor on current Bios.


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## mkdr (Jul 8, 2019)

What kind of nonsense test is this? Why is there no 3200 CL16 which is like THE default and most used? Where is 3600 CL16 which is the next logic one to use?


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## TheLostSwede (Jul 8, 2019)

mkdr said:


> What kind of nonsense test is this? Why is there no 3200 CL16 which is like THE default and most used? Where is 3600 CL16 which is the next logic one to use?


Maybe there was no option to run the selected modules at those timings? Not all memory runs at all timings...
Also, early days for the UEFI, give it some time and I'm sure things will improve, they usually do.


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## medi01 (Jul 8, 2019)

Mirkoskji said:


> So basically, if you're not interested that much on having the 3 fps boost, you could potentially buy a ddr4 3000 or 2933, spending something less, and still have pretty good performance? is it right?


Yeah, but keep in mind 5% is two times more than diff between 9900k and 3700x at a typical gaming resolution.


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## Wyverex (Jul 8, 2019)

I have spent most of the Sunday reading all the W1zzard's reviews. Great work and thanks for an informative and entertaining day


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## Demes (Jul 8, 2019)

Is the 3000 16-18-18-38 also with 1T command rate? You seem to have omitted that from the results.


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## W1zzard (Jul 8, 2019)

Demes said:


> Is the 3000 16-18-18-38 also with 1T command rate? You seem to have omitted that from the results.


Everything is 1T


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## vega22 (Jul 8, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Yup, and the latency matters too



W1z what's going on with the cl @ 2400/2600mhz?

3200 cl14 but 16 for slower speeds?


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## Imsochobo (Jul 8, 2019)

vega22 said:


> W1z what's going on with the cl @ 2400/2600mhz?
> 
> 3200 cl14 but 16 for slower speeds?



Usually 2666 is CL16, 2666 kits refuse CL14, usually 1st gen crapkits


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## TheLaughingMan (Jul 8, 2019)

Cool so I can just continue to use my current RAM. I have a FlareX AMD special at 3200 MHz CL14. Runs fine with my 1800X so I can just keep it paired with whatever Ryzen 2 chip I get. Thanks


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## nemesis.ie (Jul 8, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Maybe there was no option to run the selected modules at those timings? Not all memory runs at all timings...
> Also, early days for the UEFI, give it some time and I'm sure things will improve, they usually do.



We also need our buddy @1usmus to release the next DRAM calc with the Zen 2 options unlocked. Or does it unlock if it detects a Zen 2 CPU in the board?


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## Abula (Jul 8, 2019)

Is it likely to able to run 3600CL16 or 3733 CL17? im just wondering since this were the recommended by AMD in the computex presentation.


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## Demes (Jul 8, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Everything is 1T


Everything? The charts say the 3600 17-19-19-39 is at 2T though


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## W1zzard (Jul 8, 2019)

Demes said:


> Everything? The charts say the 3600 17-19-19-39 is at 2T though


Oh so the command rate was included indeed in the charts, congrats for figuring it out


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## Demes (Jul 8, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> Oh so the command rate was included indeed in the charts, congrats for figuring it out



The command rate was not included in the charts for the 3000 16-18-18-38 frequency/timings, which is why I originally asked about it. Would I be correct in saying everything except the 3600 17-19-19-39 results were at 1T command rate?


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## W1zzard (Jul 8, 2019)

fuuuck .. now i see it .. yeah 3000 was at 1T. I'll fix the charts. Sorry!

Edit: new charts are up, nice catch


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## RainingTacco (Jul 8, 2019)

Hmm looks like the scaling is lower than with previous zen gen. Its good that these CPUs are less dependent on good memory!


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## PYRO1125 (Jul 9, 2019)

I see no point after reading the review to upgrade my 3200mhz flare x CL 14 or even OC to 3600mhz speeds. For a 1% difference or maybe 1-2fps difference LOL


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## bug (Jul 9, 2019)

PYRO1125 said:


> I see no point after reading the review to upgrade my 3200mhz flare x CL 14 or even OC to 3600mhz speeds. For a 1% difference or maybe 1-2fps difference LOL


He, running 2800 here and I'll keep these sticks if I make the jump.


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## CjMitsuki (Jul 9, 2019)

What the point in running 3600 with those horrendous primary timings?  Ryzen first gen and Ryzen+ have no problem hitting 3533 with 14-14-14-24-38 and some of the nicer silicon on Ryzen+ can do 3600 with the same primaries.  This is all with secondary and tertiary timings tightened nicely.  Theres literally no point in running 3600 @ cl17 when 3466 @ cl14 is going to walk all over it.  For that matter, 4000 @ cl20 is just awful and again in most scenarios 3466 - 3600 @ cl14 is going to destroy it.  Only reason to ever use those higher freqs will be for applications that only care about raw bandwidth and not latency.  My 3700x will arrive Wednesday then ill see how real memory scaling on Ryzen 2nd gen performs.  I look forward to seeing how far we can push it over on the ROG C7H and DRAM Calc threads @ Overclock.net


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## nemesis.ie (Jul 9, 2019)

Agreed @CjMitsuki I was seeing better results at 3333CL16 with tweaked timings on my 2700X - well until they screwed up the UEFI by adding gen 3 support! (ASRock).

I've a 3900X arriving this week so that should be fun - and to compare, I want to see how the 2 chiplets compare with the 8 core parts when set to 4+4 too.


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## W1zzard (Jul 9, 2019)

CjMitsuki said:


> What the point in running 3600 with those horrendous primary timings?  Ryzen first gen and Ryzen+ have no problem hitting 3533 with 14-14-14-24-38 and some of the nicer silicon on Ryzen+ can do 3600 with the same primaries.  This is all with secondary and tertiary timings tightened nicely.  Theres literally no point in running 3600 @ cl17 when 3466 @ cl14 is going to walk all over it.  For that matter, 4000 @ cl20 is just awful and again in most scenarios 3466 - 3600 @ cl14 is going to destroy it.  Only reason to ever use those higher freqs will be for applications that only care about raw bandwidth and not latency.  My 3700x will arrive Wednesday then ill see how real memory scaling on Ryzen 2nd gen performs.  I look forward to seeing how far we can push it over on the ROG C7H and DRAM Calc threads @ Overclock.net


The idea was to use memory timings that the masses can actually afford, not some halo numbers. I'll look at getting some runs in with tighter timings later this week when things are bit less crazy


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## CjMitsuki (Jul 9, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> The idea was to use memory timings that the masses can actually afford, not some halo numbers. I'll look at getting some runs in with tighter timings later this week when things are bit less crazy



By looking at the title of the review, it would suggest the point was to how memory performance scales on Ryzen 2nd gen.  Also, that 3200 14-14-14-34-1T setup is Samsung B-die which is still fairly expensive.  If there were to be a fair scaling comparison highlighting any gains in performance from this gen then Id say keep it B Die across the kits.  say like the f4-3200c14 kit, the f4-3600c15 kit (at Cl14 of course, instead of 15) and then f4-4000c17.  Just to make it the most simplistic, grab the 4000 cl17 kit and run it at 3200 cl14, 3600 cl14, and 4000 cl17 but then take it further by overclocking the Fclk as high as you can get it (since the memory controller is going to drop to 2:1) while maintaining stability of course.  That would at least show if its worth even exceeding 3600 and overclocking the fclk to try and mitigate the performance loss from the memory controller drop above 3600.


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## W1zzard (Jul 9, 2019)

CjMitsuki said:


> and overclocking the fclk to try and mitigate the performance loss from the memory controller drop above 3600.


Why not overclock fclk all the time?


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## nemesis.ie (Jul 9, 2019)

It might become unstable over 1800MHz?

This is something we need to investigate and see what happens with e.g. SoC voltages (are there new ones for the I/O die or?) and how new UEFI/AGESA code maybe affects it too.

Lots to play with!


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## W1zzard (Jul 9, 2019)

nemesis.ie said:


> It might become unstable over 1800MHz?


My 3900X can handle 1800 MHz Infinity Fabric, 100% stable. Next setting, 1866 I think, crashes within 30 seconds of load applied


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## nemesis.ie (Jul 9, 2019)

Exactly, so there's a good reason not to OC it.   3600 is presumably not really a "full" OC (even if stock is 3200) if they are including 3600 sticks in the review kits.

It will be interesting to compare mine and @CjMitsuki's to see if there is an element of Si lottery involved.

Are you able to change the IF voltage or is it tied to the main SoC or just not enabled in the UEFI (yet)?


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## gerardfraser (Jul 9, 2019)

Thanks for the review.I do not expect you to do every setting on memory for everyones set of DDR4 Kits.Especially at this time with video card releases/CPU releases  ,must just be crazy.You covered the normal kits out there.
I waiting on my Ryzen 3xxx to arrive and I have a DDR4 4000 kit I will be testing but I already know the answer.
I think I will test but beyond 3600Mhz I am not sure what settings I can use yet to be stable on my cheap X470 MSI Gaming Plus Motherboard.
*♦ 2133Mhz (16GB)CL10-10-10-10-21
♦ 2400mhz (16GB)CL10-11-11-11-21
♦ 3200mhz (16GB)CL14-14-14-14-28
♦ 3600mhz (16GB)CL14-15-15-15-42* 

Again the review is helpful and appreciated for us regular user's.


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## Ceeloe (Jul 10, 2019)

What exactly does the 1t and 2t mean?


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## nemesis.ie (Jul 10, 2019)

LMSTFY: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/dram-command-rate-explained.416749/

See post 8.


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## Ceeloe (Jul 10, 2019)

nemesis.ie said:


> LMSTFY: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/dram-command-rate-explained.416749/
> 
> See post 8.




Awesome, thank you.

Would the GSKILL trident 3600 cl17-18-18-38 be a good choice then?


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## nemesis.ie (Jul 10, 2019)

It might be, but you may be better to wait a bit and see what results people get.

I have some nice Team 3733MHz I will be playing with on a 3900X later in the week.

You can also maybe get some 3200 CL14 and find they will go higher with looser timings and allow you to find a good sweet spot and might cost less, going for 3200 versus slower should guarantee you will get at least the official spec of 3200MHz and not be hampering the CPU, more overall performance is then a bonus.


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## Marucins (Jul 10, 2019)

An interesting test.
I was looking for this information. Thank you very much.

I still wonder what will be like no 2x8 but 4x8GB?
What will the performance and clock memory of 3600 look like for 4 dice?


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## NimbleCZ (Jul 10, 2019)

Pity that there is no test of Factorio, one of the few games that really depend on memory bandwidth and latency. Old Ryzens did not do well at all.

@W1zzard  would you be interested in benching Factorio? Gettings some huge saves would not be a problem.

Some sources for reference:
reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/bdr5kz/psa_factorio_have_benchmark_option_to_measure_ups/
reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/4h647g/factorio_performance_test_cpuram_based_fpsups/
https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=441170#p441170


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## nemesis.ie (Jul 10, 2019)

@Marucins I will be using 4 x 8GB Team modules.


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## HugsNotDrugs (Jul 10, 2019)

This is a helpful review.  I'm running 64GB of 2400mhz RAM I bought years ago when higher speeds weren't as common, especially at high capacities.

Helps to know it won't starve a 12c/24t CPU.

Thank you for including 2400mhz in your review.


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## mrgupta (Jul 10, 2019)

W1zzard said:


> The idea was to use memory timings that the masses can actually afford, not some halo numbers. I'll look at getting some runs in with tighter timings later this week when things are bit less crazy


Really looking forward to this, thank you so much for your tests!


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## Marucins (Jul 11, 2019)

I have met such information and I want to verify it.

Ryzen 3000 processors support RAM memory clocked up to DDR-3200. This corresponds to the fastest timing adopted so far by the JEDEC consortium, which includes all major memory and processor manufacturers, including AMD and Intel. AMD guarantees that the processor can work with such a speed memory:

     DDR-3200 - if 2 memory modules are installed,
     DDR-2933 - if 4 single-sided memory modules have been installed,
     DDR-2666 - if 4 double-sided memory modules are installed.
I want to buy 4x 3600 and if it slows me down to 3200 it will be fine, but below... :\


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## nemesis.ie (Jul 11, 2019)

@Marucins If you don't see a post from me over the next few days, PM me to remind me and as mentioned, I will update with how I get on with the 3733 kit.  It easily does 3200 (and 3333CL16) with a 2700X so I would think 4 sticks SR should be easy with Zen 2.

They are Samsung B-die, SR.

I also imagine Zen 2+/Zen 3 will improve things further, so getting a bit faster now, may work out well if you plan to pop in a new CPU next year.

What board do you have? Apparently the TaiChi X570 has a T topology which should be better for 4 modules.


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## Marucins (Jul 11, 2019)

OK!

It's getting ready to change and update the rig. I like X570 AORUS XTREME and I will probably buy this mob.

If the PC upgrade, then there is a change in memory - now I don't know if I should buy 2 dice or 4. I don't want the frequency to slow down because I will fill 4 memory banks.


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## nemesis.ie (Jul 12, 2019)

One thing to watch, while I too like the idea of the AE (passive CS cooling), it apparently only has a 128Mb flash chip, so could run into issues with next year's CPU like some boards are seeing with Zen2.

It's mind boggling that they would cheap out on the flash size on such a board. 

Go for 2 x 16GB sticks if you can find the right speed at the right price. Then you have less issues with 4 sticks and the option to easily go to 64GB later.

3900X in the house ...


Holy BLEEEP, I wasn't expecting this kind of difference in cache speed!

This is with the same BIOS and RAM settings (actually I think they were tuned a little faster on the 2700X) ....








I just set 16-16-16-38 and 48 for tRC I think it was and the rest on Auto and it's pretty good other than a little loss of read and write but I'm sure tweaking up the sub timings will easily sort that out.






XMP @ 2733MHz didn't boot but I didn't try training it up yet either. 

Update: Lots of GSOD, I'm not too happy with the ASRock BIOS, it needs the 1.0.0.3 update IMO ASAP.


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## Tomgang (Jul 14, 2019)

Based on 3600 mhz sweetspot and low timings. I found this g.skill kit that seems to be rated at some fairly low timings and this kit might just be my choise. So far i havent found other 3600 mhz with lower timings than this.









						F4-3600C14D-16GTZN-(EOL) - Specification - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
					

Trident Z Neo DDR4-3600 CL14-15-15-35 1.40V 16GB (2x8GB)




					www.gskill.com


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## Xx__Just_The_Tip_UwU__xX (Jul 14, 2019)

People seem to forget memory overclocking is a thing that can be done, so buy ludicrously expensive memory kits. 4000+ MHz kits are just stupid and usually have awful timings anyway. Literally, just get a cheap B-die kit and either overclock it yourself or use the DRAM Calculator for Ryzen...
I got 32gb 3866 MHz CL18 cause I found a decent deal when ram prices were stupidly high and run it at 3200 MHz CL14-14-14-28 @ 1.4V (cause Zen+ sucks for memory overclocking)


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## Tomgang (Jul 14, 2019)

Xx__Just_The_Tip_UwU__xX said:


> People seem to forget memory overclocking is a thing that can be done, so buy ludicrously expensive memory kits. 4000+ MHz kits are just stupid and usually have awful timings anyway. Literally, just get a cheap B-die kit and either overclock it yourself or use the DRAM Calculator for Ryzen...
> I got 32gb 3866 MHz CL18 cause I found a decent deal when ram prices were stupidly high and run it at 3200 MHz CL14-14-14-28 @ 1.4V (cause Zen+ sucks for memory overclocking)



I agreed with you about 4 ghz+ memory kits. Way to exspensive and for ryzen 3000 memory above 3733 mhz split the infinity fabrik in two so the devider is 2:1 while below the fabrik runs 1:1 so over 3733 mhz you lose transfer speed on the infinity fabrik redusing data transfer between cpu and memory and may in some cases cause performance lose even throw the memory is running 4 ghz+.

I will say depending on once memory buget stick to between 3200 mhz and 3600 mhz memory. You are better of with lower memory clock and low timings than high clock and timings. Specially above 3733 mhz. The only good reason i can think of to why buy 4 ghz or more momory clock, would be to run them at exsample 3600 mhz but to push timings even lower.


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## Deleted member 178884 (Jul 14, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> I agreed with you about 4 ghz+ memory kits. Way to exspensive and for ryzen 3000 memory above 3733 mhz split the infinity fabrik in two so the devider is 2:1 while below the fabrik runs 1:1 so over 3733 mhz you lose transfer speed on the infinity fabrik redusing data transfer between cpu and memory and may in some cases cause performance lose even throw the memory is running 4 ghz+.
> 
> I will say depending on once memory buget stick to between 3200 mhz and 3600 mhz memory. You are better of with lower memory clock and low timings than high clock and timings. Specially above 3733 mhz. The only good reason i can think of to why buy 4 ghz or more momory clock, would be to run them at exsample 3600 mhz but to push timings even lower.


RAM is not exclusive to the Zen platform, 4000mhz kits are often used on X299 for numerous reasons for example and there is large gains to be had all the way through from 2400-4000 on skylake-X.
As for ryzen, above 3733 *will not always *set the IF links to 2:1, AMD Robert already confirmed above 3733 can run on the IF links 1:1 on *good *cpus that win the silicon lottery or have a good memory controller and such. 
The best investment for zen is bdie kits on sale so usually 14-14-14 or 16-16-16 or similar at around 3600 for the best performance.


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## Tomgang (Jul 14, 2019)

Xx Tek Tip xX said:


> RAM is not exclusive to the Zen platform, 4000mhz kits are often used on X299 for numerous reasons for example and there is large gains to be had all the way through from 2400-4000 on skylake-X.
> As for ryzen, above 3733 *will not always *set the IF links to 2:1, AMD Robert already confirmed above 3733 can run on the IF links 1:1 on *good *cpus that win the silicon lottery or have a good memory controller and such.
> The best investment for zen is bdie kits on sale so usually 14-14-14 or 16-16-16 or similar at around 3600 for the best performance.



Yeah its different with intel, but right now we talk ryzen and memory. But i have not seen that he has said that good cpu's can run faster memory with out change fabrik clock to 2:1. Maybe it would be a good idea waiting buying memory as i am planning to get a ryzen 9 3950X and it shut get binned chiplets, maybe that also is the case with the i/o chip as well so it can run higher memory with out going in to 2:1 mode.


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## Durvelle27 (Jul 15, 2019)

So now I’m wondering if I should upgrade my ram


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## nemesis.ie (Jul 15, 2019)

With a bit of manual tuning.

Over 3066 still seems to be very unstable, with luck the new AGESA will come out this week.







At 3000MHz with the same timings as above:


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## Wickedt (Jul 15, 2019)

I used Ryzen mem calculator to adjust my timmings tighter on my flare x 3200, heres cpuz info









nemesis.ie said:


> With a bit of manual tuning.
> 
> Over 3066 still seems to be very unstable, with luck the new AGESA will come out this week.
> 
> ...


BTW, what is the version of windows you are using? Beta? or is it windows insider edition?


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## nemesis.ie (Jul 15, 2019)

Insider. It's one flight behind as the latest one causes my mouse to move erratically and GPU performance to tank, it's like there is a 24hz update rate set for mouse and screen. 

They should have it fixed in the next one I imagine.

I'm hoping I get a new UEFI soon as this one is restricting things. 

I have tighter timings than you but can't go over ~3066 for now at any timing.  I think your 3200MHz is helping in CB. 

They have not released 1.0.0.3 for the X470 version yet.


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## paridoth81 (Jul 15, 2019)

I would really like to know what the performance hit is for RAM with looser timings like CL16 for DDR4-3200 and CL19 for DDR-3600 since they cost a fraction of higher-end RAM modules. Also, did I understand correctly that for gaming OCing the timings is more worth it that OCing the frequency?


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## Wickedt (Jul 16, 2019)

paridoth81 said:


> I would really like to know what the performance hit is for RAM with looser timings like CL16 for DDR4-3200 and CL19 for DDR-3600 since they cost a fraction of higher-end RAM modules. Also, did I understand correctly that for gaming OCing the timings is more worth it that OCing the frequency?



Do lots of research because a lot of the time, the timings can get much tighter, and AMD loves the tighter timings. A lot of ram will go higher then what they are rated for. A great program to use is Ryzen Dram calculator, theres also a video on youtube on how to use the program. There,s also the silicon lottery, were you get  a chip that you can really change up to faster settings.


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## Marucins (Jul 16, 2019)

Xx__Just_The_Tip_UwU__xX said:


> People seem to forget memory overclocking is a thing that can be done, so buy ludicrously expensive memory kits. 4000+ MHz kits are just stupid and usually have awful timings anyway. Literally, just get a cheap B-die kit and either overclock it yourself or use the DRAM Calculator for Ryzen...



OK, how can I know and be 100% sure that the bones are B-DIE?


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## Lorec (Jul 16, 2019)

Marucins said:


> OK, how can I know and be 100% sure that the bones are B-DIE?








						B-Die Finder
					

Find Samsung B-Die DDR 4 memory kits on Amazon, Newegg and many more.




					benzhaomin.github.io


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## paridoth81 (Jul 16, 2019)

Wickedt said:


> Do lots of research because a lot of the time, the timings can get much tighter, and AMD loves the tighter timings. A lot of ram will go higher then what they are rated for. A great program to use is Ryzen Dram calculator, theres also a video on youtube on how to use the program. There,s also the silicon lottery, were you get  a chip that you can really change up to faster settings.


I cant really research anything because I havent bought my RAM yet. I would like to make an informed decision before bying and so far all reviewers report that more expensive memory is faster... duh! My intuition tells me that looser timings will have a minimal impact on performance when compared to the price delta (which is 80-100%). but i'd like to actually know



W1zzard said:


> The idea was to use memory timings that the masses can actually afford, not some halo numbers. I'll look at getting some runs in with tighter timings later this week when things are bit less crazy


I absolutely agree with you. For the vast majotity of people looking to build a new system, money directed towards memory would be better spent elsewhere. I would actually like to know the performance hit for even looser timings like CL16 for DDR4-3200 and CL19 for DDR-3600 since they cost a fraction of higher-end RAM .


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## bug (Jul 16, 2019)

paridoth81 said:


> I absolutely agree with you. For the vast majotity of people looking to build a new system, money directed towards memory would be better spent elsewhere. I would actually like to know the performance hit for even looser timings like CL16 for DDR4-3200 and CL19 for DDR-3600 since they cost a fraction of higher-end RAM .


To put it another way, RAM is the second fastest component in your PC (behind the CPU). If you have a bottleneck, there's a good chance it's somewhere else. If you know you're doing memory intensive stuff, then sure, squeeze everything you can out of those sticks.


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## Marucins (Jul 16, 2019)

nemesis.ie said:


> @Marucins If you don't see a post from me over the next few days, PM me to remind me and as mentioned, I will update with how I get on with the 3733 kit.  It easily does 3200 (and 3333CL16) with a 2700X so I would think 4 sticks SR should be easy with Zen 2.
> 
> They are Samsung B-die, SR.
> 
> ...


Completely fu ... construction of this board  :\
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ccyxmn/psa_x570_taichi_design_flaw_chipset_overheat


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## Lorec (Jul 17, 2019)

Marucins said:


> Completely fu ... construction of this board  :\
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ccyxmn/psa_x570_taichi_design_flaw_chipset_overheat


same spot as any other x570 pretty much.
actually might have dodged a bullet there as I had blower 1080ti in first slot and mounted accelero whiched forced me to put the card in second slot (heatsink wouldnt fit)
regardless chipset fat runs at 2000ish rpm which is beyond me


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## Wickedt (Jul 17, 2019)

Marucins said:


> Completely fu ... construction of this board  :\
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ccyxmn/psa_x570_taichi_design_flaw_chipset_overheat



I think this is a very exaggerated thing, its not an issue for me, i suppose, because my gpu is on a riser, and i have a huge case, however, my chipset still runs 55 to 75 depending on what im doing.
The benefits 570 bring to the table far outweigh these silly issues. Btw Asrock already came up with a few bios updates to manage this.


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## paridoth81 (Jul 17, 2019)

Wickedt said:


> The benefits 570 bring to the table far outweigh these silly issues. Btw Asrock already came up with a few bios updates to manage this.


You mean the benefits benefit of PCI-e 4? Is that even a benefit  in 2019?


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## TheLaughingMan (Jul 17, 2019)

paridoth81 said:


> You mean the benefits benefit of PCI-e 4? Is that even a benefit  in 2019?



No there is not. PCIe 4.0, much like hardware accelerated ray tracing, is just too new to have a benefit of any kind at this point. Maybe in 2 or 3 years. Also didn't der8auer test the chipset on the Gigabyte boards and file they don't produce enough heat to require active cooling?


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## mrgupta (Jul 17, 2019)

I was looking at an updated test an hour or two ago, a test I was super happy about, with the Sniper X 3600 CL19 ram. Suddenly it disappeared and I can't find it anymore, I dunno what's happening.

edit: nevermind, it's the test from March 20th


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## bug (Jul 17, 2019)

TheLaughingMan said:


> No there is not. PCIe 4.0, much like hardware accelerated ray tracing, is just too new to have a benefit of any kind at this point. Maybe in 2 or 3 years. Also didn't der8auer test the chipset on the Gigabyte boards and file they don't produce enough heat to require active cooling?


Hey, RTRT has the benefit of developers getting their feet wet.
I'm probably the last person to argue against new tech, but while PCIe 4.0 doesn't offer much, it it still lets you enjoy its drawbacks today: significantly more expensive motherboards, increased power draw and an additional fan to go with that.


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## Wickedt (Jul 18, 2019)

This Flare X memory is crazy stuff, i was going to buy an expensive CAS16 3600mhz kit, but my flare x was so easy to get to 3600, with CAS16 no less. I am sure i can get it to run at CAS15, but theres a glitch in the bios that wont let me set it at 15, defaults to 16. All this at 1.39v to boot.

PS I set the infinity fabric to 1800mhz, to match the dram frequency, is that a good thing to do?

Another question, what is FSBRAM? Is that the ratio of the front side bus at 100mhz to 3600mhz dram?


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## evilhf (Aug 2, 2019)

I got these results!
This is looking too awesome, or my memory and cpu are binary.

I recorded a video, and in recording the result went up to 11.1ns.


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## Durvelle27 (Aug 2, 2019)

So looking at this I’m thinking is it worth swapping my current 2400MH @17-17-17 RAM for 3200MHx paired with a 3900X


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## jesdals (Aug 4, 2019)

Testing my new Corsair kit - I noticed a strange thing. The standard timing of the kit was CL18-19-19-39. Trying to change the settings in bios to CL17 did nothing it stayed at CL18. I then changed the settings to CL-16 and it worked. Tried some settings there and wanted to try CL15, again boot witout problems like at CL17. But both CPUid and HardwareInfo64 showed it as CL16. Unfortunately no luck setting the kit to CL14.


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## jesdals (Aug 6, 2019)

jesdals said:


> Testing my new Corsair kit - I noticed a strange thing. The standard timing of the kit was CL18-19-19-39. Trying to change the settings in bios to CL17 did nothing it stayed at CL18. I then changed the settings to CL-16 and it worked. Tried some settings there and wanted to try CL15, again boot witout problems like at CL17. But both CPUid and HardwareInfo64 showed it as CL16. Unfortunately no luck setting the kit to CL14.


Using Ryzen Dram Calculator and by disabling XMP I manged these settings - with 1.450v to the mem


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## cadaveca (Aug 6, 2019)

jesdals said:


> Testing my new Corsair kit - I noticed a strange thing. The standard timing of the kit was CL18-19-19-39. Trying to change the settings in bios to CL17 did nothing it stayed at CL18. I then changed the settings to CL-16 and it worked. Tried some settings there and wanted to try CL15, again boot witout problems like at CL17. But both CPUid and HardwareInfo64 showed it as CL16. Unfortunately no luck setting the kit to CL14.


Many odd-numeral CAS timings are not actually supported by AMD's CPUs currently. Totally normal.


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## jesdals (Aug 7, 2019)

I tried to tinker som more with my settings and after several attemps and setting up both of my two bios´s - it seems that I have hit the sweet spot - any thing else is not stable, the same goes for the cpu speed at 4525MHz


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## erek (Sep 19, 2019)

Will these native 3733 DDR4 sticks work with X570 chipset? for that magickal 1:1 IF ratio?








						G.SKILL TridentZ Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C17Q-64GTZ - Newegg.com
					

Buy G.SKILL TridentZ Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C17Q-64GTZ with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com


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## bug (Sep 19, 2019)

erek said:


> Will these native 3733 DDR4 sticks work with X570 chipset? for that magickal 1:1 IF ratio?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think IF is only guaranteed to do 1600MHz (so DDR4 3200 would the fastest to run 1:1). Anything above is technically overclocking.


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## erek (Sep 19, 2019)

bug said:


> I think IF is only guaranteed to do 1600MHz (so DDR4 3200 would the fastest to run 1:1). Anything above is technically overclocking.



??? the article says " the DDR4-3733 "sweet spot" configuration recommended by AMD "

----







						Ryzen 3950X Build Help
					

I'm going to do a new build around the 3950X on the X570 Platform.  What motherboards do you recommend?  So far i'm looking at the ASUS X570 Crosshair VIII Hero.  I also need RAM recommendations.        So far i've already got the following components:  RTX 2080 Ti FE  Inland 1TB NVMe M.2...




					hardforum.com
				




"Actually AMD has said the sweet spot slide was not correct. Optimal is 3600 with 1800 1:1 IF ratio. With 3733 you have to manually set to 1866 fclk but that is not the sweet spot."


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## Calmmo (Sep 19, 2019)

you have to OC your IF to get 1:1 and that's not a 100% guarantee on every CPU. If you can pull it off, great if not.. (if you look even on this site some people here have had trouble with dud CPU/IF speeds, not many but enough)


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## CjMitsuki (Sep 19, 2019)

Calmmo said:


> you have to OC your IF to get 1:1 and that's not a 100% guarantee on every CPU. If you can pull it off, great if not.. (if you look even on this site some people here have had trouble with dud CPU/IF speeds, not many but enough)


No Overclock is ever guaranteed on any CPU...ever.  With that being said, I have yet to see someone unable to run 3733 @ 1:1.  It comes down to Ryzen overclocking experience memory IC quality more than it will with the cpu being the factor.  Also, a good X470 board like the CH7 will help immensely.  More often than not it will come down to the Cas Latency you run with said frequency with SoC and VDDG voltages being in the right range for your CPU/memory which will always be unique to the silicon quality you are working with.  From what Ive seen personally, the cpu is able to go much further @ 1:1 than 3800mhz CL14 and it is the PMU firmware that needs maturing.  I can easily run 32gb (8gb x 4) kit at 3800mhz CL 14-15-15-22-36 achieving around a 9100 multicore score in Geekbench.  With baseclock tuning I have had the frequency around 3830mhz and could probably push further but for now is not a performance gain as I have to relax a couple of my subtimings a touch and they are all pretty much perfect at the moment.


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## pcwolf (Feb 8, 2020)

Marucins said:


> An interesting test.
> I was looking for this information. Thank you very much.
> 
> I still wonder what will be like no 2x8 but 4x8GB?
> What will the performance and clock memory of 3600 look like for 4 dice?


A little late, but ...

Team Dark Pro 3200Mhz 4x8Gb four sticks running at factory clock 14-14-14-31 on Asrock X470 Taichi with AGESA 1004AB.


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## Neotheone (Jun 25, 2020)

Thanks a lot W1zzard. Another awesome review.


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## nemesis.ie (Jun 25, 2020)

pcwolf said:


> A little late, but ...
> 
> Team Dark Pro 3200Mhz 4x8Gb four sticks running at factory clock 14-14-14-31 on Asrock X470 Taichi with AGESA 1004AB.



I'm running 2 x 16GB of those at those factory timings (or a little looser/faster clocks) on the same board with the latest UEFI for the last 2 weeks. No issues.


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