# why do video cards cost more than the whole computer?



## keakar (Aug 17, 2007)

why do video cards cost more than the whole computer?


it's pure price fixing to rip us off!


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## Deleted member 3 (Aug 17, 2007)

They don't. Unless you're comparing a high end video card with a budget computer. Compare it to a high end system in which it should be and the price seems a lot more acceptable.


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## Ravenas (Aug 17, 2007)

Your video card isn't going to cost more than your computer, and if it does, your wasting your money on your video card. If your CPU/mobo isn't good enough, your video card will be bottlenecked.


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## Mussels (Aug 17, 2007)

keakar said:


> why do video cards cost more than the whole computer?



Because you bought a really cheap PC?

In aussie prices
My video card: 8800GTX - $750
my CPU $375 (Q6600)
Keyboard $115 (Saitek Eclipse II)
Mouse $95 (MX518/Logitech G5 - have both)
Mouse pad $39 (Func archetype)
LCD monitor $425

oh damn, i went past my viddies price already. Guess i'll go home now.


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## Kammster (Aug 17, 2007)

keakar said:


> why do video cards cost more than the whole computer?
> 
> 
> it's pure price fixing to rip us off!



depends, gpu core cost like $40(if i remember right), with the,pcb and other stuff, like 120 for a high end card, the packaging games and OEM sofware to make the user feel good, staff, research. but not like $400US is near manufacturing cost.

evidence: why else would a company sell lazer cut cores withe the same pcb? for half price.


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## DaMulta (Aug 17, 2007)

Because the engineer cost is huge and they don't sell as many video cards as they do with CPUSs. It is better to have a low end CPU with a high end video card. Than to have a low end video card with a high end CPU.


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## error_f0rce (Aug 17, 2007)

I wonder if it also has to do with the cost of RAM.  If you think about it, your high-end RAM costs as much as some high-end CPU's.... so if you get a vid card that uses high-end GDDR, you've got to be paying for that somehow right? 

Just a thought....


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## TXcharger (Aug 17, 2007)

whenever i finish my computer engineering degree in hopefully four years and get a job with some huge company... i wont need to worry about prices anymore... ahhh

but until them... if you really think about it your getting a good deal, for the amount of work that went into these components your generally getting a good deal


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## keakar (Aug 17, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> Because the engineer cost is huge and they don't sell as many video cards as they do with CPUSs. It is better to have a low end CPU with a high end video card. Than to have a low end video card with a high end CPU.



with all due respect "damulta" your comment "they don't sell as many video cards as they do with CPUSs" is IMO a load of BS, i believe it is just the opposite. 

just look around this site to see people talking about changing video cards out like they were changing socks or something lol. but i agree there are somewhat reasonable choices that can be found out there if you research it well and shop wisely.

but all the $500+ cards out there are just $250 cards they are overcharging us for when you think about the cost of manufacturing them is not that high.


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## Sasqui (Aug 17, 2007)

I agree with Damulta, but would qualify it by saying they don't sell as many HIGH END video cards.  Average rigs usually have average video cards - it's the demending FPS gamers (usually a younger crowd) that go for the $200+ cards.

I'm OLD... but spent $400 on an X1950XTX (now around $250) - soley for gaming.


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## DaMulta (Aug 17, 2007)

keakar said:


> with all due respect "damulta" your comment "they don't sell as many video cards as they do with CPUSs" is IMO a load of BS, i believe it is just the opposite.
> 
> just look around this site to see people talking about changing video cards out like they were changing socks or something lol. but i agree there are somewhat reasonable choices that can be found out there if you research it well and shop wisely.
> 
> but all the $500+ cards out there are just $250 cards they are overcharging us for when you think about the cost of manufacturing them is not that high.



Your reading with PC enthusiast. This market is very small. Most PCs get the standered small onboard video chipset. This is why Intel owns the market with video cards. They do not sell very many 500 dollar cards, what they sell the most of is the cheap 100USD card. Those are there money makers. The 500USD cards are more than show to the public of who makes the best of the best when no one really buys them. The GPUs used for them are the best of the wafer the center. The outer edges not as good are sold off for cheaper. The engineer cost is very very high. Just think 100 engineers at 100 grand a year is 10,000,000 alone in salary. This doesn't include all of the other things it takes before the release.


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## keakar (Aug 17, 2007)

Mussels said:


> Because you bought a really cheap PC?
> 
> In aussie prices
> My video card: 8800GTX - $750
> ...




ok lets break it down for you then, you said you paid $750 for the video card so......

lets see what the rest of the system cost you:

keyboard, mouse and monitor are left out because they are not actually the computer hardware and for this reason they are excluded from my example.

$375 CPU (Q6600)
$125 Asus P5-E motherboard
$150 computer case
$150 power supply

Total comes to $800 for all the rest of it and you paid $750 just for the video card.

thank you for giving us a good example to proove my point.


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## keakar (Aug 17, 2007)

DaMulta said:


> Your reading with PC enthusiast. This market is very small. Most PCs get the standered small onboard video chipset. This is why Intel owns the market with video cards. They do not sell very many 500 dollar cards, what they sell the most of is the cheap 100USD card. Those are there money makers. The 500USD cards are more than show to the public of who makes the best of the best when no one really buys them. The GPUs used for them are the best of the wafer the center. The outer edges not as good are sold off for cheaper. The engineer cost is very very high. Just think 100 engineers at 100 grand a year is 10,000,000 alone in salary. This doesn't include all of the other things it takes before the release.



good point


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## Sasqui (Aug 17, 2007)

keakar said:


> Total comes to $800 for all the rest of it and you paid $750 just for the video card.
> thank you for giving us a good example to proove my point.



$750 gets the BEST "consumer" video card.  Price the same system with an Extreme edition CPU (~$1000), better motherboard ($200+), better RAM ($200+), Sound card, etc. etc.  All that costs more than twice the video card.


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## v-zero (Aug 17, 2007)

Because it's the most advanced and complicated thing in your computer, and the market moves so quickly that R&D costs are ten-fold what they are for other component manufacturers. 
The prices are high, but only if you don't think about what the mid-range can offer.


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## HAL7000 (Aug 17, 2007)

bottom line is you get what *you are willing to pay* for


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## Kreij (Aug 17, 2007)

Bah ... My pair of x1950s were approximately 18% of the total cost of my system.


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## Pinchy (Aug 17, 2007)

keakar said:


> ok lets break it down for you then, you said you paid $750 for the video card so......
> 
> lets see what the rest of the system cost you:
> 
> ...



Lol....you forgot about RAM, HDD, DVD drive, cooling, additional PCI cards... .


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## niko084 (Aug 17, 2007)

Video cards should not cost more than the rest of your computer.... Otherwise you are wasting money....

Beyond that, yes video cards are overpriced, but thats because of fan boys and only 2 companies really being in the market.


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## keakar (Aug 17, 2007)

ok you have convinced me that it is really only 20-25% of the cost of computer, but still way too much $ all together for a good system when you add monitor into it your talking $2000 which IMO is getting out of hand. a good top end system should only have to cost you $1000 but now you just get a basic average system for that price.

it's the same way with gas, as long as we keep buying it the prices will never go back down to reasonable levels. 

computer components only become reasonably priced when they are having trouble selling them. thats why the brand new quads are so cheap, nobody was buying them.


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## keakar (Aug 17, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Lol....you forgot about RAM, HDD, DVD drive, cooling, additional PCI cards... .



lol very true "and" i forgot the vista OS for another $150

i just dont want to have to sell my truck to get a new computer lol.


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## niko084 (Aug 17, 2007)

keakar said:


> ok you have convinced me that it is really only 20-25% of the cost of computer, but still way too much $ all together for a good system when you add monitor into it your talking $2000 which IMO is getting out of hand. a good top end system should only have to cost you $1000 but now you just get a basic average system for that price.
> 
> it's the same way with gas, as long as we keep buying it the prices will never go back down to reasonable levels.
> 
> computer components only become reasonably priced when they are having trouble selling them. thats why the brand new quads are so cheap, nobody was buying them.



People complain about the cost of a hot computer so they expect sub $1000 systems and then throw a fit when stuff breaks under normal everyday use.

Just be glad you know how to build one, because a HOT alienware costs $3000 by the time its worth half a crap and you still get some not top line parts.

Yes its expensive but thats technology... Top line audio equipment isn't cheap, a Ferrari isn't cheap, nothing when you want the best is going to be cheap.


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## cdawall (Aug 17, 2007)

my 7800GS cost about the same as the whole system 

mobo $25 after MIRs
cpu $30 after MIRs
RAM $50 total after MIRs
HDD carry overs form old systems
PSU cost $35 after MIRs
BFG 7800GS OC $130 after MIRs

but my system was built ona uber budget to say the least


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## keakar (Aug 17, 2007)

IF I WERE KING.......


low end video cards would sell for $25-50

middle end video cards would sell for $50-100

good high end video cards would sell for $100-200

best top end video cards would sell for $200-300 nothing higher

and the cpu's would also be priced about the same as above


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## DaMulta (Aug 17, 2007)

PCs are cheap these days


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## niko084 (Aug 17, 2007)

keakar said:


> IF I WERE KING.......
> 
> 
> low end video cards would sell for $25-50
> ...



Well and as the truth stands the companies could still make a killing profit off those prices...

The Intel Extreme's and AMD FX chips are all jacked up just because people who want and can afford "the best" will pay for it.

Same with ATI and Nvidia, they have a cornered market and fan boys, so they don't even really compete with each other that much, not price wise anyways.


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## cdawall (Aug 17, 2007)

thats pretty close to what they are

6200s cost about $25-30
X800 PCI-e can be found on ebay well under $100
7800s can be found 100-200
top end is the only set that cannot be found with the same pricing


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## DaMulta (Aug 17, 2007)

cdawall said:


> thats pretty close to what they are
> 
> 6200s cost about $25-30
> X800 PCI-e can be found on ebay well under $100
> ...


what about the cost of the machines to make them?


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## keakar (Aug 17, 2007)

cdawall said:


> thats pretty close to what they are
> 
> 6200s cost about $25-30
> X800 PCI-e can be found on ebay well under $100
> ...



well i dont object to them making money but for people who dont have money to burn, the latest new equipt should still be priced for the average person, high end should not mean you have to rob a bank for it.

pretty soon your gonna buy a video card for $2000 and get a free quad core cpu as a free gift lol.

you dont see ford selling cars for $120,000 just because they spend a lot of $ on research.


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## DaMulta (Aug 17, 2007)

No but they well sell for 40 grand the first year and 15 grand less used the next year.


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## niko084 (Aug 17, 2007)

keakar said:


> well i dont object to them making money but for people who dont have money to burn, the latest new equipt should still be priced for the average person, high end should not mean you have to rob a bank for it.
> 
> pretty soon your gonna buy a video card for $2000 and get a free quad core cpu as a free gift lol.
> 
> you dont see ford selling cars for $120,000 just because they spend a lot of $ on research.



Yes you do....

How about the Shelby Cobra.... Its nothing but a Ford GT motor dropped into a Mustang GT with new wheels and a 6speed transmission....

They limit the amount they make and turn a $25,000 car into a $75,000 car and give it a fancy name....

By the way a Saleen Extreme costs $5000 more and will destroy a Shelby Cobra, top speed, acceleration, corners you name it. It completely makes a mockery of that over priced thing Ford thinks it worth something.

Just goes to show though, you want the name and the best they make and have the money it will sell....
People want the Cobra for the name and will pay for it, I know Cobra NUTS that admit its crap and still
bought or will buy it.


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## Steevo (Aug 17, 2007)

My current system at home was about $1,700.00 USD and included the X1800XT when it was new @ $529.00 Since then I have added better cooling and a new CPU. And am going water when newegg gets my waterpump in. 




So now I have a older system that cost a total of $2,200 or a bit better, the video card is the least of my cost worries, I am selling it after water cooling and the new CPU for $900 to a friend completely setup and ready to go. Just the way business is.


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## cdawall (Aug 17, 2007)

niko084 said:


> Yes you do....
> 
> How about the Shelby Cobra.... Its nothing but a Ford GT motor dropped into a Mustang GT with new wheels and a 6speed transmission....



no its not the GT has an all alluminum 5.4L in the cobra has a cast iron 5.4L almost exactly the same as in the F150 plus a supercharger


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## niko084 (Aug 17, 2007)

cdawall said:


> no its not the GT has an all alluminum 5.4L in the cobra has a cast iron 5.4L almost exactly the same as in the F150 plus a supercharger



Ohh ya I forgot... Its the Ford Lightning motor with I believe the Ford GT heads or something.

Anyways you get the point...


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## Pinchy (Aug 18, 2007)

Being a consumer, I natrually agree with keakar. I want lower prices !


But, you have to realise that if they did make high end stuff too cheap, not many would buy the lower end or midrange stuff, and it would be pointless.

Still, I do think $1200 (AUD) is waaay too expensive for a graphics card.


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## zCexVe (Aug 18, 2007)

They need more effort to create.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Aug 18, 2007)

theres a lot of power to be had under $100 .. i live ins third would country where 8800gts 640's sell for the equivalent of ~1200 US dollars ...

7600 gs is a good card .. under bills ..


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## HeavyH20 (Aug 18, 2007)

Is still remember the $495 UPGRADE to go from a 4 MB VRAM Diamond Viper to and 8 MB version. PC prices have plummeted over the years, drastically. And, an enthusiast CPU is still around $1000 when it is current. Has been for some time (FX-51, FX-53, etc). So, considering what today's video cards offer, they are appropriately priced.


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## hat (Aug 18, 2007)

You should be greatful you have the knowledge to build your own PC for a fraction of the cost of a prebuilt system of equivilent power. And since you don't have propriatary parts, you can overclock. You can take your everyday $100 CPU and clock it up to the performance level of the $1000 cpu. You can clock your video card up to match a faster version, etc...


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## HeavyH20 (Aug 18, 2007)

I can vouch for that. The Falcon Northwest setup costs about $8000 if I went prebuilt. But, of course, a $100 CPU can never keep up with a $1000 version. It can meet the stock spec OC'd, but the $1000 CPU overclocks, as well. For example, my QX6700 has more potential than a $400 Q6600 G0.


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## kwchang007 (Aug 18, 2007)

It's easy to see why it can end up costing more than the rest of the computer.  Think about the man-hours put into developing the architecture on paper.  Then think of the man-hours that it takes to get the architecture on paper to fit onto silicon and work the way you want.  That's just the core, What about bus interface? Amount of power needed?  Speed of ram?  Cooler?  Bios?  You have to remember a dedicated gpu is basically a computer on a daughter board specially built for processing graphics.  The 8800 gtx has what....120 stream processors @ like 1.2 ghz or something like that?  That's 120 cores running at 1.2 ghz....imagine how big a core 2 die would be if it was 120 stream processors.  A gfx card isn't a simple...ok lets put a gpu into a socket, add some memory and plug it in.  It's specialized, you pay more for specialized things.  Let's put it this way.....why pay 1 million +on a super advance fighter jet?  
When you could pay $20,000 and get a Cessna and mount a machine gun on it?  It's specialized....that's why you pay more.


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## niko084 (Aug 18, 2007)

HeavyH20 said:


> Is still remember the $495 UPGRADE to go from a 4 MB VRAM Diamond Viper to and 8 MB version. PC prices have plummeted over the years, drastically. And, an enthusiast CPU is still around $1000 when it is current. Has been for some time (FX-51, FX-53, etc). So, considering what today's video cards offer, they are appropriately priced.



Heh ya... Remember the Diamond Monster 3d cards has like 16mb on the card and then you could add another 16mb card in SLI 

OHH YA!!!!

My Dad got a set of those for an old system right as they came out so I could REALLY play some of my games.... I don't want to know what those cost...


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## imperialreign (Aug 18, 2007)

I remember, though, when you could by a high-end video card and be set for a good 5 years.  The last card I owned like that was a VooDoo3.

Not saying that high-end cards aren't like that now . . . but it's not like how it was, if you know what I mean


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## Pinchy (Aug 18, 2007)

HeavyH20 said:


> I can vouch for that. The Falcon Northwest setup costs about $8000 if I went prebuilt. But, of course, a $100 CPU can never keep up with a $1000 version. It can meet the stock spec OC'd, but the $1000 CPU overclocks, as well. For example, my QX6700 has more potential than a $400 Q6600 G0.



I *think* hat means that because we know how to overclock and stuff, we can get cheaper parts and clock them to the speed of the faster parts, whereas someone who doesnt know how to overclock will remain at stock and hence, both parties have the same speeds its just one got it for a lot cheaper.

Keyword: think


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## hat (Aug 18, 2007)

Pinchy got it right. I'm glad I am able to get my 5200+ to the speeds of a 5600+.


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## {JNT}Raptor (Aug 18, 2007)

keakar said:


> why do video cards cost more than the whole computer?




Because we as the public allow It.....by buying them at those high prices.


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## Mussels (Aug 19, 2007)

keakar said:


> ok lets break it down for you then, you said you paid $750 for the video card so......
> 
> lets see what the rest of the system cost you:
> 
> ...



Oh i dunno, i find it hard to play a game without the peripherals. EVERYTHING is part of the computer, even down to the desk i use. THAT is where you have gone wrong.

If you only buy a tower for it, and its contents - you arent buying a PC, you're buying parts and reusing other components. of course its cheaper that way and your prices are skewed. And my video card? it was the most expensive one at the time, i could have got an 8800GTS 320MB for around $380, and you cant say thats more expensive than a PC.

Your argument is:
The most expensive video card(s) on the market cost more than the basic components of a cheap PC with no peripherals.

OMG HE'S RIGHT! cant argue with THAT logic.




keakar said:


> ok you have convinced me that it is really only 20-25% of the cost of computer, but still way too much $ all together for a good system when you add monitor into it your talking $2000 which IMO is getting out of hand. a good top end system should only have to cost you $1000 but now you just get a basic average system for that price.
> 
> it's the same way with gas, as long as we keep buying it the prices will never go back down to reasonable levels.
> 
> computer components only become reasonably priced when they are having trouble selling them. thats why the brand new quads are so cheap, nobody was buying them.



20-25% of who's computer? its all down to PERSONAL CHOICE.

Until i split my system into two, cause it was too heavy, it had -

22" LCD ($500)
8800GTX ($750)
Mobo (asus P5B-E) ($200)
E6600 ($400 when i got it, just went Q66 recently)
7x sata-II hard drives (~$160 each, as i bought them)
Sata DVD burner - $60
HDTV tuner card - $95
Case (Antec P150)  $220
PSU - OCZ gameXstream - $205
Audigy 4 sound card $90 (ebay)
2GB OCZ ram, DDR2 800 ($400)

Then theres the parts you say dont count - mouse, keyboard, cooling (I have spent ~$300 on cooling hardware), UPS power backup and so on.

Seriously, if you dont want a high end PC to cost more than $1000 - excersice your right as a consumer, and buy a console. It aint happening. High end PC's have always cost around hte $3K mark here in aus.


as someone else said in the thread, go look at AMD athlon FX and intel extreme CPU's, they cost a hell of a lot more than a video card.


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## HAL7000 (Aug 19, 2007)

*Mussels*, I couldn't agree with you more, here is the price I speced out for a client, they wanted a high end system taylored to their liking...


 $39.99 LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model LH-20A1L-06 - Retail 

 $399.99 ZALMAN Z-MACHINE GT1000-B Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower High End Computer Case - Retail 

 ($194.99 each) total of 2- $389.98 Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM 

 $499.99 SAMSUNG 245BW Black high glossy 24" 5ms DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor with Height Adjustment - Retail 

 $569.99 ASUS EN8800GTX/HTDP/768M GeForce 8800GTX 768MB 384-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail 
 $145.99 Creative 70SB046A00000 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series - Retail 

 $579.99 PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 1KW-SR EPS12V 1000W Continuous @ 50°C Power Supply - Retail 
 $71.99 Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard - Retail 
 $45.99 Logitech G5 2-Tone 6 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Laser Mouse - Retail 
 $460.99 OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3P13332GK - Retail 
 $246.99 ASUS P5K3 DELUXE/WIFI-AP LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

 $329.99 Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6850 - Retail 
 $68.99 ASUS 90-PN531CE-00100 92mm Sleeve Silent Knight CPU Cooler - Retail 
 $224.00  Bose Companion 3 Series II Multimedia Speaker System Computer Speakers 

Subtotal: $4099.85    plus tax

So *Keakar* to think that a VC is more than a system really depends on your system.


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## HeavyH20 (Aug 19, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> I *think* hat means that because we know how to overclock and stuff, we can get cheaper parts and clock them to the speed of the faster parts, whereas someone who doesnt know how to overclock will remain at stock and hence, both parties have the same speeds its just one got it for a lot cheaper.
> 
> Keyword: think



Taking cheap parts and OCing them is a value way to reach a high end system. Understood. But, if you OC the high end parts, they will out do any of the bargain items. I have been there. Use an AMD X2 3800+, clock it up to 2.6 GHz, and you have an FX-62. Makes sense, somewhat. Most people with the FX-62 will also OC their CPU, since it is an enthusiast chip, so the X2 3800+ does not really come close to emulating the faster chip. 

I think the OP statement is completely off, anyway. Video cards do not cost more than a whole system. Never have, never will.

If you build a balanced system, with say all mid level parts, then the video card is no where near as much as the rest of the system. This is the type of system I build for my nephews.  If I built a decent mid range PC, right now, it would be:

EVGA 650i  - $150
E6850 - $300
2 GB DDR2 - $120
500 GB HDD - $120
Decent PSU - $120
Decent case - $80
DVD-RW-DL - $30
Good CPU cooler - $50

So, about $970 for a decent mid range system. And, for a video card do we choose an 8800 GTX? No, on this system the choice would likely be a 8800 GTS 640 or 320 for about $300. I would hate to imagine what kind of system is $500 with a $500 video card. That would be a waste and completely unbalanced.

As a rule of thumb, the video card should cost no more than 40% the cost of the other components combined or your system is unbalanced.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 19, 2007)

Mussels said:


> Because you bought a really cheap PC?
> 
> In aussie prices
> My video card: 8800GTX - $750
> ...



Thats barely over $1k... for everything BUT the GPU...

yet the GPU is almost $1k in itself..


try rethinking that one? 



Mussels said:


> Oh i dunno, i find it hard to play a game without the peripherals. EVERYTHING is part of the computer, even down to the desk i use. THAT is where you have gone wrong.



Because peripherlas need recycled every upgrade 

My G15 should last me a good 9-10 years. My G7 probably until the battery packs cease holding charges. My LCD until a 2000x2000 res lcd comes out most likely. Failure of these objects to remain useful for a legitimate lifespan will make it quite a waste of money. These should only be factored into a computer once... *If you have to upgrade every time, you didn't buy the right part in the first place!* My MX310 lasted me 5 years, until i wore the button out.



HeavyH20 said:


> Taking cheap parts and OCing them is a value way to reach a high end system. Understood. But, if you OC the high end parts, they will out do any of the bargain items.



lol?

Thats the type of thinking that got everyone in to this terrible position.

We used to be able to buy a $40 1700+ and hit 2.2-2.5Ghz.

The smart people can do similar with lower end CPU's.


Buying high end parts for overclocking just 100% eliminates any skill required these days.

My 3700+ does 3Ghz.

$70 CPU.

Why spend $400?


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## HeavyH20 (Aug 19, 2007)

The reality is that it takes almost no skill to OC these days for any CPU, unless you are volt modding and such. Throw some decent cooling on there, and it is very easy. Tweaking the OC does, however, take a little more skill. Balance the memory timings, bus speeds, HT, etc. It is just as hard to get a Intel 4340 to 3.6 GHz as it is to get a Intel E6700 to 4.2, but the higher end CPU wins, again. A $100 CPU does not match a more expensive one. FSB limits with low multis come into play. I have done my share of testing, and the bargain CPU's never keep up with the higher end. But, if you need to save money, it makes sense to buy the best you can and OC it to a better clock.

And, it's high time to throw the 3700+ away, anyway.


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## keakar (Aug 19, 2007)

Mussels said:


> Oh i dunno, i find it hard to play a game without the peripherals. EVERYTHING is part of the computer, even down to the desk i use. THAT is where you have gone wrong.



well by your logic you have to include the price of your house or the cost to rent your apartment, because you need the electricity to run your computer lol.

then add in your broad band bill and wireless networking, oh dont forget food cause you have to eat, then your all set!


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## Wile E (Aug 19, 2007)

keakar said:


> you dont see ford selling cars for $120,000 just because they spend a lot of $ on research.


Ummm, The Ford GT.



Dippyskoodlez said:


> Thats the type of thinking that got everyone in to this terrible position.
> 
> We used to be able to buy a $40 1700+ and hit 2.2-2.5Ghz.
> 
> ...


His point still stands. My 6000+ does 3.4GHz, and way out does any of the cpu's you mentioned. Sure, I paid more for it, but I'm also still faster.

And it still takes skill to OC a QX6 series over 4Ghz. You don't see many Q6600 or Q6700 going above 4Ghz. You also don't see people setting records with the Q66 or 67s. They all use QX series chips.

And above all, you are not taking the overall economy of the world into your arguments about pricing vs older hardware. EVERYTHING is more expensive now, not just computer parts. But we also make more money now, thus offsetting the difference. My first job paid me $4/hr. Now the minimum wage in my state is what, $7.15/hr.

Just a few years ago, I couldn't afford $400 gfx cards, because that would've been equivalent to buying an 8800 Ultra by today's standards.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 20, 2007)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> Thats barely over $1k... for everything BUT the GPU...
> 
> yet the GPU is almost $1k in itself..
> 
> ...


I made a second post with the rest of the parts listed, and full prices. That first one was brief, and people made the same comments you did.



			
				Dippyskoodlez said:
			
		

> Because peripherlas need recycled every upgrade
> 
> My G15 should last me a good 9-10 years. My G7 probably until the battery packs cease holding charges. My LCD until a 2000x2000 res lcd comes out most likely. Failure of these objects to remain useful for a legitimate lifespan will make it quite a waste of money. These should only be factored into a computer once... *If you have to upgrade every time, you didn't buy the right part in the first place!* My MX310 lasted me 5 years, until i wore the button out.



Thats what i mean - WE recycle parts, not everyone does. I'm talking 'total cost of a computer' - if your keyboard lasts you through three rebuilds, feel free to average it to 1/3 the original cost of the keyboard. You cant knock it off like it was free, however.
The average user definitely buys all new parts (store bought systems) even if they get it custom built, so that the old PC remains in working order.




			
				Dippyskoodlez said:
			
		

> Thats the type of thinking that got everyone in to this terrible position.
> 
> We used to be able to buy a $40 1700+ and hit 2.2-2.5Ghz.
> 
> ...


I spent $400 on a quad Q6600 2.4GHz and plan to do 3.2-3.6GHz on it, before those even exist in the retail market  OCing depends on the mobo more than anything these days, as just about every CPU will overclock.


----------



## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 20, 2007)

Wile E said:


> And it still takes skill to OC a QX6 series over 4Ghz. You don't see many Q6600 or Q6700 going above 4Ghz. You also don't see people setting records with the Q66 or 67s. They all use QX series chips.



You people don't get it.

Paying for the upper grade worsens the problem.

The 1700+'s did AMAZING because the volume moved with the low end (1700+'s) was SIGNIGIFICANTLY higher than the high end product...

Once you move the volume to the high end product, they make out like bandits and you see the problem we have now- buying higher binned cpu's for an extra 200 Mhz.


People justifying buying the higher cpu for that extra 200mhz is what screws you all.

Overclocking started as a way to get more for your money.

Now its evolving because people are freaks about 2fps, and turning it into the market because they're willing to bend over. 

I never have and never will.

Long live the overclocking dream!


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## Pinchy (Aug 20, 2007)

HeavyH20 said:


> Taking cheap parts and OCing them is a value way to reach a high end system. Understood. But, if you OC the high end parts, they will out do any of the bargain items. I have been there. Use an AMD X2 3800+, clock it up to 2.6 GHz, and you have an FX-62. Makes sense, somewhat. Most people with the FX-62 will also OC their CPU, since it is an enthusiast chip, so the X2 3800+ does not really come close to emulating the faster chip.



Lmao, I know that; I was simply interpreting Hat's logic.

Which was:

Computer techie: Buys E6400 for $200, OC's it to 3Ghz.
Computer n00b with lots of money: Buys E6800 for $1000, leaves it at stock cus he doenst know what "OC" is.


Overall, they are getting the same performance, with the techie paying $800 less. Sure the n00b could overclock it, but in this situation, he doesnt know how to.


----------



## HeavyH20 (Aug 20, 2007)

Well, most noobs do not buy the $1000 CPU. Even with lots of money. That's my point. They buy the mid point CPU already in a system, like an E6850 for $300 and run it at the stock 3.0 GHz.  And, in doing so, with no tweaking whatsoever, they have a system that performs as fast with stock cooling as the lower end OC'd CPU with better cooling. Simply stated, instead of buying watercooling, get a better CPU. And, besides, noobs do not buy the high end Extreme CPU's, enthusiasts do.  

And, the E6850 for $100 more is a much better buy than the E6400.  It can OC to 4.0 GHz with decent cooling. My take is that a $300 CPU is the sweet spot for value and OC headroom. Anything lower is a compromise. And, if you are into hardware as a hobby, the Extreme CPU's are the only way to go, period.


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## Pinchy (Aug 20, 2007)

HeavyH20 said:


> Well, most noobs do not buy the $1000 CPU.



You'd be suprised. (Dont know about the states) But here in Aus, ive seen many occurances where they generally just want the best they can get. It all depends on who builds it for them. (Smart techie gives E6850, dumb techie gives E6800).


I've seen many people who barely know how to use MS word, yet own an enthusiast computer. My dentist is one such example.

Anyway, this is getting waay off topic. Sorry for threadjacking .


----------



## keakar (Aug 20, 2007)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> You people don't get it.
> 
> Paying for the upper grade worsens the problem.
> 
> ...





thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you

for clarifying the message i wished to convey in the original post.

your comment was much clearer and to the very point that i wished to make.

the numerous posts trying to justify why its ok to be paying so much just amazed me.

people buy overpriced things all the time but that doesnt mean its ok.

the way supply and demand system works is you keep raising prices untill the idiots stop buying your product, then you lower the price a tiny bit and rake in the $$$$$$$.

the way supply and demand system also works is if you stop buying the new overpriced products, then they will lower the price untill they start selling a lot more of them. (Q6600)

just because you didnt mind paying too much $ for something doesnt mean you should.


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## Mussels (Aug 20, 2007)

So... your point is that we should all stop buying, and live in a communist world were we all get free hardware?

People with more money get better (stock) hardware, people with experience OC the hardware, and people with both buy the best value at the time.


You are somewhat unclear what your point is meant to be - dippys comments are true that the lower-mid range hardware sells more, thats true. doesnt mean that they arent going to sell higher clocked ones for more, some people want/need that performance, so the manufs spend more time and effort getting it to happen, and want more money for it.

Its not like every video card is made as a GTX at teh factory, and trimmed down to sell for less. The ones that make the grade are few and far between, and have to be spread across the globe - that means they have less per region and sell it for more, to stop it selling out on the spot and only one area (northern USA, taiwan) getting ALL of them.

Dippy and i always disagree on things, its just the way we are - but i'm still not entirely sure what the point here is, i'm arguing that the video cards do not cost more than a PC, unless you have a screwed up build design - your argument is... supply and demand sucks? people are stupid for buying imbalanced systems?


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## HeavyH20 (Aug 20, 2007)

Buying so called "overpriced" items does not change the market. The fact remains that you get way more system for $2500 today than ever. GPU's have evolved faster than the CPU over the past few years pushed along by ever more demanding graphics capabilities. Ten years ago, in 1996, someone postulated that $2500 bought you the best value PC and that would continue on, even with inflation. That same $2500 in 1996 is really worth $3300 today, but, since electronic prices have been flat or declining for the last 10 years, the same $2500 actually gets you a somewhat high end PC. Today, we have similar valued systems selling today for only $600. Talk about a cost reduction. 

Even the high end has dropped. An 8 MB VRAM Diamond Viper was $895 (about $1200 in today's dollars). So, $600 for a high end card today represents a significant drop. You will always get more for your dollar as each and every year passes buy. That is the domain of electronics. And, those companies are making less and less margin, not more.

And, welcome to capatilism. What you consider overpriced, can also be considered a bargain to someone else. What would you buy if you made $200,000 per year versus an average US household income of $50,000? The only reason the Q6600 came down in price was that is went from a 2nd tier product to a fourth tier. It simply was moved down the ladder while a couple of other products are simply dropped. Today's fastest is tomorrow's bargain, if you wait long enough. What does an FX-55 cost today? Probably couldn't give it away yet it was $1000 in its day.


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## niko084 (Aug 20, 2007)

HAL7000 said:


> *Mussels*, I couldn't agree with you more, here is the price I speced out for a client, they wanted a high end system taylored to their liking...
> 
> 
> $39.99 LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model LH-20A1L-06 - Retail
> ...



Not bad yet destroyed by a pile of crap DVD drive.... 

Get a Plextor 
Also if you are going to buy a 7.1 sound card, may as well get 7.1 speakers!?!?


----------



## Mussels (Aug 20, 2007)

niko084 said:


> Not bad yet destroyed by a pile of crap DVD drive....
> 
> Get a Plextor
> Also if you are going to buy a 7.1 sound card, may as well get 7.1 speakers!?!?



while a nice DVD drive is a good thing, for most gamers its barely used. If it can install the game, and read from it for pesky CD checks, its good enough for most users.

Of course, we could start buying BD-ROM drives and complain they cost more than the video cards...

oh and sound card i dont think matters too much, he could have got it for the EAX performance/sound benefits to 2.0/headphones, surround sound wouldnt be why it was purchased.


----------



## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 20, 2007)

Mussels said:


> some people want/need that performance, so the manufs spend more time and effort getting it to happen, and want more money for it.



"want" that performance is the problem in question.

The A64 3200+ overclocked like a mofo. People were doing 3+ghz with it all the time. No one bought the high end one because the lowers could do just fine.

Now everyones so scared to overclock, they buy high end stuff to make their e-peen bigger because they got an extra 100mhz for $300.

When you move the volume from 3200+ end to the 3800+ end of the product, you change the way you bin product.

You stop binning perfectly good 3800+'s in the 3200+ bin.

Overclocked start bending over for the 3800+ price.

See the point?



> So... your point is that we should all stop buying, and live in a communist world were we all get free hardware?



Are you a republican, or do you like throwing money away? or both? You're obviously scared of a little communism, stop watching faux news. Unlike gullible single moms, I know communism won't be taking over this country by a changing technology market.






> Its not like every video card is made as a GTX at teh factory, and trimmed down to sell for less. The ones that make the grade are few and far between, and have to be spread across the globe - that means they have less per region and sell it for more, to stop it selling out on the spot and only one area (northern USA, taiwan) getting ALL of them.



Guess what? The geforce 4's were like this. The Geforce FX's were like this. The entire 9x00 radeon series did this.

IT HASN'T CHANGED.







HeavyH20 said:


> And, welcome to capatilism. What you consider overpriced, can also be considered a bargain to someone else. What would you buy if you made $200,000 per year versus an average US household income of $50,000? The only reason the Q6600 came down in price was that is went from a 2nd tier product to a fourth tier. It simply was moved down the ladder while a couple of other products are simply dropped. Today's fastest is tomorrow's bargain, if you wait long enough. What does an FX-55 cost today? Probably couldn't give it away yet it was $1000 in its day.



How much was the fastest CPU on the table before the A64 came into the picture?


Thought so.

You proved my point exactly. If people are dumb enough to pay it, they'll sell it to you.


----------



## HAL7000 (Aug 20, 2007)

niko084 said:


> Not bad yet destroyed by a pile of crap DVD drive....
> 
> Get a Plextor
> Also if you are going to buy a 7.1 sound card, may as well get 7.1 speakers!?!?



They wanted to wait to invest either for HD or BR drive, until then the Lite-On suited them fine.as for the speakers, you can't get any better IMO, but i tried to talk them out of the sound card but they wanted it. 

Give em what they want, its money in my pocket, argue I loose the $$.

Besides Lite-On has never failed a client nor me and besides they read everything I throw at them
Bose have a really great sound.
My wife and daughter both use these speakers and me, well I am using creature 2 by JBL.


----------



## HAL7000 (Aug 20, 2007)

Mussels said:


> while a nice DVD drive is a good thing, for most gamers its barely used. If it can install the game, and read from it for pesky CD checks, its good enough for most users.
> 
> Of course, we could start buying BD-ROM drives and complain they cost more than the video cards...
> 
> oh and sound card i dont think matters too much, he could have got it for the EAX performance/sound benefits to 2.0/headphones, surround sound wouldnt be why it was purchased.



Your right again, thanks


----------



## Wile E (Aug 21, 2007)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> "want" that performance is the problem in question.
> 
> The A64 3200+ overclocked like a mofo. People were doing 3+ghz with it all the time. No one bought the high end one because the lowers could do just fine.
> 
> ...



How is it throwing money away, when the high end parts go further than the low end parts? If I could afford a QX and a couple of Ultras, I would have them. Then I would overclock them, and still beat up the overclocked lower end parts. 

People are willing to pay the prices, so the companies charge them. It's called capitalism. It's my money to spend, and I'll spend it how I see fit. How is my own personal choice wrong? It's my choice.

And yes, it makes more sense to buy a lower end part if all you want to do is overclock and match or slightly exceed the high end parts. But if you want untouchable power, overclocking the high end is the only place to look.

It's great that you are happy with the power provided by overclocking the lower end parts, but that's not what everyone wants.


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## HAL7000 (Aug 21, 2007)

Some need to buy cheaper because of their pocket book, some can buy the best because they can afford to, But to say that that someone is throwing money away or that those buying the best are misguided is a weak and misguided argument at the least.

Next time you are doing groceries, you need to buy the no name labels for every food item, next time you are gassing your car, you need to go to the least known brand and get the cheapest gas, next time you need sneakers you need to buy those awful plastic vinyl ones, next time you buy a car, you need to go and get the Yugo. Thing is we buy what we really want or what we can afford. (And if we can’t afford it we put it on credit)

I agree prices are insane but the roles have changed, remember when CPU’s were just outrageous in price, now video cards have caught up for ….THE upper middle and the HIGH END.   It doesn’t take a scientist to figure what is the high end, and we all want that as much as we can afford it. For those that can’t well, maybe next time. 

Development and Production + demand = cost

Why do video cards cost more than the whole computer….they don’t. It is your taste that cost more; it’s your bragging rights. It’s what we want to put under the hood. 

So everyone is right in there own ways. 

Why not start a forum dealing with this…NVIDIA and AMD/ATI… WE will stop buying your products until you lower your prices. And those that leave a message of support need to not buy that upgrade. They need to sacrifice and stop buying. This will lower prices. 
But in reality, sacrifice is one of the hardest things to do and maintain for a long enough period of time to affect the market. 

I know that video cards do not cost more than a system. If we want to play our games, and see all that eye candy, run our demanding programs well TODAY, we need a VC that will run what we want to see. We reach in our pockets, (in my circumstances…my wife’s pockets) and buy what we can. *Because what we want cost more than we are willing to spend or have doesn’t make this original post correct. *
How about developing a VC that is programmable in real time and that can be upgraded and not replaced? This way we can eventually have what we want without replacing …the hundredth VC, (now that pisses me off). Spend money today, technology changes tomorrow, spend more money the day after. Build me a VC that I can upgrade the GPU and memory.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 21, 2007)

Wile E said:


> How is it throwing money away, when the high end parts go further than the low end parts? If I could afford a QX and a couple of Ultras, I would have them. Then I would overclock them, and still beat up the overclocked lower end parts.
> 
> It's great that you are happy with the power provided by overclocking the lower end parts, but that's not what everyone wants.



$400CPU

300Mhz


$200cpu

-300mhz


I'll still frag your ass with 300 less mhz


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## HAL7000 (Aug 21, 2007)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> $400CPU
> 
> 300Mhz
> 
> ...



I understand and *agree with your overall assessment about value*. 

But there are those that do not overclock nor want to place there investment in harms way......Somebody smell burning transistors???? So they buy the best.
But others like to push and get all they can out of the least amount spent.

But overall this does not answer the higher cost we all suffer with. Both market shares look towards bargins and wait for just the right time to buy. Its the Giants of capitalism that control what we spend. They set the *P*$*R*$*I*$*C*$*E*$


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## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 21, 2007)

HAL7000 said:


> But there are those that do not overclock nor want to place there investment in harms way......Somebody smell burning transistors????



Learn to overclock properly instead of playing pin the tail on the donkey and you won't kill anything.

I've not yet killed anything from overclocking.(And my overclocks are far from mild. 3Ghz air cooled AXP anyone?)

If anything, buying the "best" is throwing even more money in harms way. If you have to buy the best to get that few epeen mhz, and you kill it because you don't know what you're doing you've just lost a crap ton more money.


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## HAL7000 (Aug 21, 2007)

Not everyone is a overclock master....there are still young jedi's coming to the overclock side of the force.....

People that want the best and do not want to overclock, most likely have someone else build their system....or know what they are doing.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 21, 2007)

HAL7000 said:


> Not everyone is a overclock master....there are still young jedi's coming to the overclock side of the force.....



So its a mix of overclocker with n00b kid that doesn't know what he's doing? 

People can call me a cheap ass for getting my moneys worth by buying lower end parts and overclocking them...

and then call my mac a waste of money...


It just never ends 


So apparently the best of the best is suddenly worth money, but NOT worth money?


----------



## cdawall (Aug 21, 2007)

look at my rig everything in it in total cost less then $200 yet before conroe it was a solid midrange to low highend machine 

@wile e
would i spend the money to get a 2.6ghz 4000+ for s754 NOPE my $20 3000+ does close enough to that on stock cooling and could go much higher if someone sent me a nforce3 mobo  all this and now i have a 3400+ i spent $40 on from AX2 that will easily do 2.64ghz with out throwing my bus speeds outta wack giving me once again a midrange gaming PC

@HAL7000
also what of mine is in harms way i have run 1.8v thru stock cooling my newcastle did not die  harms way my ass ppl are so used to thinking they can not run voltage thru todays chips cause of what they read in online articles by ppl who have never owned the chips they talk about 

for dippy
if i can find a 7900GS agp BIOS i will have a 24/8 card and i already can flash mine to 1.5vgpu giving me the ability to as soon as i unlock 8pp/2ROPS overclock to full 7900GTX all this on an ancient agp set up i can have good performance with old cheap tech.

when i had my ti4200 64mb i was running with better frames than ti4600s and ti4800s performance even when the ti4600s were run overclocked

alos got an FX 5700 that out does the rest of the lineup overclocked it can get a 500mhz core and 710mhz ram on stock cooling 

















none of thes cards look supercooled or anything do they?


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## JrRacinFan (Aug 21, 2007)

Oh my! What is with all the flame wars!?

We all have one thing in common in this forum and thats ....

RIG BUILDING! Which we all love and cherish! Hey some peeps just wanna spend, others rather OC to see how far they can push that $50 proc **ehemmm**. I know I won't be setting world records.

I only have one question for everyone; Is this a hobby or a chore?

EDIT: Exactly my point CDAwall, max I paid for a part in my rig was $65 and that was for the 7600GS! And this I would consider as mid-range machine I could get! OMFG, I still got my GF4 Ti4200 64MB in my old P3 Dell machine!


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## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 21, 2007)

cdawall said:


> look at my rig everything in it in total cost less then $200 yet before conroe it was a solid midrange to low highend machine
> 
> for dippy
> if i can find a 7900GS agp BIOS i will have a 24/8 card and i already can flash mine to 1.5vgpu giving me the ability to as soon as i unlock 8pp/2ROPS overclock to full 7900GTX all this on an ancient agp set up i can have good performance with old cheap tech.



My point exactly. 

It doesn't take expensive high end stuff to get a decent overclock.

It takes a little bit of knowledge and skill.

Most of which people demand be spoon fed back to them, in which more expensive products are able to do this for them.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 21, 2007)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> My point exactly.
> 
> It doesn't take expensive high end stuff to get a decent overclock.
> 
> ...



cheap stuff just takes some work to get to run like expensive stuff

and in all this all i got to say is
 ti4200


----------



## keakar (Aug 21, 2007)

HAL7000 said:


> Its the Giants of capitalism that control what we spend. They set the *P*$*R*$*I*$*C*$*E*$



no its really us the buyers who set the price by deciding when we will buy it.

everything starts out overpriced and is reduced untill the customers start buying it.

no one saw a need for it so Intel couldnt sell the quad cores so....  we got huge price cuts.

within days of this price cut they saw a large demand in orders so prices were increased.

within a few days of this price increase they had no new orders coming in so they cut prices again untill they saw the sales picked up and decided that is what the price should be because that is where they needed to be priced for customers to buy them. 

if Intel could have found a way to talk more buyers into overpaying for them in the first place, then prices would not have come down, we would still be paying $800+ for a Q6600.

companies know the buyers will set the price for any new product that comes on the market so they spend a buttload of advertising to try to convince you why you should overpay for it and hope you swallow the BS. once it starts selling it gets to where you want to be better than the other guy so you overpay just to have it and that is where we are today.

all im saying is that every time someone buys a high priced video card it tells them not to drop that cards price into the lower priced range because we are happy to keep paying such a high price for it. what will lower prices for all of us is slow sales of these overpriced cards so it is important to be very selective about what we buy and the price we pay for it. only buying these cards when they are on sale or with rebates and promotions helps lower prices.

am i saying dont buy it? no, do whatever makes you happy but dont tell me i should pay that much and be happy about it and especially dont tell me they need that much money for it because they spend so much on research and developement.

these cards are designed on computers by software programs, not by some guy with a pencil and drafting table. these video cards are manufactured for us by workers who are extremely skillfull and do very good work but are not well paid by anyones standards.


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## Wile E (Aug 21, 2007)

cdawall said:


> look at my rig everything in it in total cost less then $200 yet before conroe it was a solid midrange to low highend machine
> 
> @wile e
> would i spend the money to get a 2.6ghz 4000+ for s754 NOPE my $20 3000+ does close enough to that on stock cooling and could go much higher if someone sent me a nforce3 mobo  all this and now i have a 3400+ i spent $40 on from AX2 that will easily do 2.64ghz with out throwing my bus speeds outta wack giving me once again a midrange gaming PC


That's the thing. That is your tastes. You are apparently happy just matching the 4000+, but what if you wanted to go beyond that? You would either have to buy better cooling, or the better chip. Often times, buying the better chip is cheaper than a high end cooling system.

Again, people that buy high end stuff, cannot be wrong. It's their money to spend how they see fit. That's like saying somebody is wrong for buying a BMW, when they could've bought a Ford with all the same features, just slower.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 21, 2007)

Wile E said:


> That's the thing. That is your tastes. You are apparently happy just matching the 4000+, but what if you wanted to go beyond that? You would either have to buy better cooling, or the better chip. Often times, buying the better chip is cheaper than a high end cooling system.
> 
> Again, people that buy high end stuff, cannot be wrong. It's their money to spend how they see fit. That's like saying somebody is wrong for buying a BMW, when they could've bought a Ford with all the same features, just slower.



Then theres a premium you pay to get that.

Thats perfectly fine and thats not what we're arguing.

We're arguing because its starting to turn into a "buy the higher one because its a few mhz faster but $200 more" because people have an obsession with mhz these days.

Is there a noticable difference between 2400mhz and 2600mhz? No.

Overclocking has gone from a get the most from your money to get the most mhz for any money.

$1k FX/EE CPU's just prove this.

Idiots buy them.(People tossing on some LN2 to torture them are in a different category)

People overclock them for a few extra mhz.

but my 3700+ gets perfectly competitive framerates.

Worth the cost? Not in any provable way, unless you have money to burn.

Most people around here see LN2 fun as a waste of time.



The point we're making is anyone buying and JUSTIFYING that premium, is going to continue to push that premium UP.

Its going to end in a never ending loop, especially as people are turning overclocking into a market.

Its going to be taken advantage of, people don't care about your interests, they want your money, and you guys hand it over to them NQA.




Overclocking is about getting the most for your money yes, but its gone from squeezing a $200 top end CPU out of a $70 CPU to squeezing a $1k CPU out of a $400 CPU.

The market is perfectly capable of going back to squeezing that $1k CPU out of a $70 cpu, but it won't because people are too lazy to learn what they're doing, so they opt for the "ez guarantee" of an extra 200mhz, and pay that premium.

Overclocking is no longer a hobby, its turned mainstream. and Mainstream is going to inflate the price because everyone wants a piece of the pie with as little work as possible.


----------



## Kreij (Aug 21, 2007)

> ... unless you have money to burn.



We like to refer to it as "disposable income".


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## Wile E (Aug 21, 2007)

"Worth the cost" is completely a matter of personal opinion. There is no way to prove or disprove it.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 21, 2007)

Wile E said:


> "Worth the cost" is completely a matter of personal opinion. There is no way to prove or disprove it.



There is when you can affect the market supply.

If everyone started buying 3200+ cpu's again, we would see a significant increase in the overall 3200+ overclockability.

It may be worth the cost to you, but it is not for me.

You buying that cpu that is "worth the cost" causes problems for me, as it begins to reduce my ability to enjoy the cheaper CPU's.

In turn pushing me further and further away from overclocking.

While the cheaper cpu's start sucking, the higher end, more expensive cpu's begin doing better.

And your wallet starts to get emptier and emptier.

Hope you enjoy it.


----------



## Wile E (Aug 21, 2007)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> There is when you can affect the market supply.
> 
> If everyone started buying 3200+ cpu's again, we would see a significant increase in the overall 3200+ overclockability.
> 
> ...


It's fairly apparent that we're never gonna come to an agreement on this. I say we just agree to disagree.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 21, 2007)

Wile E said:


> It's fairly apparent that we're never gonna come to an agreement on this. I say we just agree to disagree.



Its OK, I'm gonna enjoy making a profit off you people when I become one of the people designing this stuff


----------



## Wile E (Aug 21, 2007)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> Its OK, I'm gonna enjoy making a profit off you people when I become one of the people designing this stuff


lol. My latest cpu only costs $120 new(E4300, not up and running yet. Need to get a new Meanwell psu to run the TEC). I can't afford top end, but would buy it if I could.


----------



## HAL7000 (Aug 22, 2007)

keakar said:


> no its really us the buyers who set the price by deciding when we will buy it.
> 
> everything starts out overpriced and is reduced untill the customers start buying it.
> 
> ...



I hate to rain on your parade, but it is the *companies* that will set their prices, then in response to consumer demand they either raise or lower prices. Then competition also plays in, but the consumer does not set prices. 
You also can not dismiss product development/ research and production cost. Do you think company employees/management from all ranges make nothing per year in salary? Schooling didn't take a play in cost? Building and updating factories, etc have no play in the cost of production/products? Setting a higher price allows for companies to recoup some of the initial investment in the beginning. I am not trying to argue the point of cost, but have you ever owned or operated your own company/ business? I have and so had my father, and we have never allowed the consumer to set the prices for anything. We respond to demand and availability.

Also I never told you what to spend either. Your conflict is with the companies not anyone here in the forums. 
you asked  "*why do video cards cost more than the whole computer*?" People tried to explain both sides of the highway. 
I am happy that you are able to get what you want at the prices you look for, but I like to buy the best and move on from there, you see we are agreeing that we pay what we want to pay.


----------



## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 22, 2007)

HAL7000 said:


> I hate to rain on your parade, but it is the *companies* that will set their prices, then in response to consumer demand they either raise or lower prices. Then competition also plays in, but the consumer does not set prices.




What the hell are you talking about?


----------



## HeavyH20 (Aug 22, 2007)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> There is when you can affect the market supply.
> 
> If everyone started buying 3200+ cpu's again, we would see a significant increase in the overall 3200+ overclockability.



Not sure how you some to that conclusion.  How does demand for an item = overclockability??

And, back in the 1700+ days, they were turd processors that had a little extra room. It was not until the AMD 64 processors were released that AMD had anything decent. 

BTW, the AMD 3700+ is a very old processor. Three years ago, about this time, it was $710, not $70. The big news was the price drop to $507. We are talking FX-53 ($799) gen CPU's when AMD was finally making a very competitive product.  The 3700 may cost you $70 today, but, honestly, that would be too expensive. I have a nice Opteron 146 that does 3.0 Ghz sitting in a box collecting dust. The sun set on that CPU almost 2 years ago. But, it is like a garage sale. Someone else's junk is another's gold mine. 

So, I would get off the high horse calling people "idiots" for buying current gen hardware while you are scouring through the junk bin.


----------



## driver66 (Aug 22, 2007)

WOW PWNT


----------



## HAL7000 (Aug 22, 2007)

Dippyskoodlez said:


> What the hell are you talking about?



 Originally Posted by keakar  View Post
*no its really us the buyers who set the price by deciding when we will buy it.*

This was in reference to this statement.


----------



## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 22, 2007)

HeavyH20 said:


> Not sure how you some to that conclusion.  How does demand for an item = overclockability??



You make 500 CPU's.

DEMAND: 400 3200+ CPU's
50 Mid range CPU's
40 High end CPUs
10 semprons

BINNING(aka, what you have): 50 High end CPU's
50 mid range CPUs
350 3200+'s
50 Semprons

How are you going to meet demand?
Exactly.


HAL7000 said:


> Originally Posted by keakar  View Post
> *no its really us the buyers who set the price by deciding when we will buy it.*
> 
> This was in reference to this statement.



Read my underlined comments. Read what you wrote. Rethink your comment.
Please.
consumers = demand, prices = demand.



HeavyH20 said:


> So, I would get off the high horse calling people "idiots" for buying current gen hardware while you are scouring through the junk bin.



I'm sorry, it makes sense to spend $1k on a cpu thats 200mhz faster?

whatever.

I'll buy 3 cheaper ones and find one that outclocks that $1k one and have $$ left over for a few video games, pizza, a few pops/beers and some to take a girl out for a night.


----------



## HeavyH20 (Aug 22, 2007)

And, never forget, profit = progress. If a company could not make money, then they cannot research, develop and market never mind pay anyone to perform a job. And, binning is an admission that the better CPU's are worth the money. 

As for the processor speeds, the reason they have headroom for the OC is that they assume a certain thermal environment. Most systems are made with marginal cooling and components, shoved in a corner, and forgotten. Enthusiasts, on the other hand, take the CPU, polish it up, put some good thermal grease and pair it with a really good air cooler, water or even phase. This, in turn, allows the enthusiast to see the real potential of the CPU with improved thermal management. Luck is also a component, since the best CPU's are in the middle cuts on the die.

You do have a point about OC potential with demand, but is has more to do with life cycle of the product. When a CPU is first launched, the best CPU's have the headroom and resultant price. As the product ages and become mainstream, the center cuts are no longer in demand so that the better potential items are released as the bargain products. The mid life cycle is where the good deals lay. For example, the current E6850 can possibly reach 4.0 GHz with some decent cooling. But, again, it has to so with a ramp up of a new product and the current, but soon second tier item, is price dropped to meet mid market demands. The $300 mark is, as I have said earlier, this prime point to buy. The product is new enough to be relevant and the OC capacity is actually expanded. Just ask anyone with a G0 C2D.


----------



## Dippyskoodlez (Aug 22, 2007)

HeavyH20 said:


> For example, the current E6850 can possibly reach 4.0 GHz with some decent cooling. But, again, it has to so with a ramp up of a new product and the current, but soon second tier item, is price dropped to meet mid market demands. The $300 mark is, as I have said earlier, this prime point to buy. The product is new enough to be relevant and the OC capacity is actually expanded. Just ask anyone with a G0 C2D.



Yeah, that works, until you factor in yield.

Intel doesn't make exactly what they need. Nor does AMD. Nor does anyone.

Yield changes the entire ball game when demand exceeds yield in certain areas, good and/or bad.

And thats why certain cpu's have become historic(2600+M, 1700+, 1.8 NW, 3200+)





> And, binning is an admission that the better CPU's are worth the money.



What? Thats in no way shape or form related.


----------



## keakar (Aug 22, 2007)

HAL7000 said:


> I am not trying to argue the point of cost, but have you ever owned or operated your own company/ business? I have and so had my father, and we have never allowed the consumer to set the prices for anything. We respond to demand and availability.



i ran my own company for 28 years before i retired and yes i charged what i wanted to.

then when i had no customers, i had to lower my prices and slowly raised them to charge "only" what the market would bare (aka what the customer was willing to pay). any buisness that wants to stay in buisness must balance and adjust its prices to fit customers willingness and ability to buy its products. go ahead and double your prices then tell customers they must pay you more just because you think your worth it lol. see how long your charge whatever you want plan works in real life.

you agree with dippy and me about prices being too high and we agree with you that you do get something for all that money you spend but how much that extra is really worth is debatable. 

then you go and get defensive about us saying you are overpaying to buy the best lol.

here it is in a nut shell:

paying premium prices drives those prices even higher, slower sales brings the prices down.

our comments were pointing out that people who have "disposable" income pay these high prices and then try to justify it for some reason. if you dont mind overpaying to get the latest gratest thing out there then that is your buisness but it does have the effect of making all the other components follow suit with higher prices.


----------



## keakar (Aug 22, 2007)

i'm getting flashbacks of movie stars and actors in hollywood complaining about not paying enough taxes lol.

anyone who really feels that intel will lose money if they dont charge us $700 for a video card should just go ahead and mail them a check so they don't go out of buisness lol.


----------



## HeavyH20 (Aug 22, 2007)

Overpriced is not a fair term unless it is well over MSRP and is more or less a retail gouge. Intel pricing is unwaivered. The market is really run by the retailers. NewEgg is a prime example of taking advantage of demand. I will never pay above MSRP. Back, last October,  when NewEgg was asking $1499 for the QX6700, I got mine for $999 from Amazon of all places. It has paid for itself, however, in the form of a nice, new Dell 30 inch LCD 

Yields improve profitability and lower unit costs. No rocket science there. And, again, once the product reaches mid life, yields are better, as well. But, even with that, I feel for AMD with all it's nice last gen are items selling for $250, tops, and losing market and money at an alarming rate. Hope they have a good product coming along to improve their bottom line aside from the money suing Intel. Yup, it's Intel's fault for releasing the C2D and killing AMD.  

As for taxes, just remember, that the top 1% of income earners in the US pay 25% of the bill. The rest of us 99% pick up the other 75%. Not sure how any of this relates to taxes, however. 

And, speed binning helps ensure that the premium products deliver. I played the second tier game looking for the good clocker. AMD 3200, X2's, Opterons, etc. All come close, but I was always back 400 Mhz from the top chip. So, instead of putzing around looking for the diamond in the coal bin, I decided to go to the diamond dealer and pay the price. No regrets.  I still have a top 20 result in 3DMark06 with a result I posted back in February. Benchmarks are not the end all be all, but it highlights the level the system delivers, since last October. I have a couple of the new G0 "value" CPU's and they still do not come close to the older rev Extreme chip.

I say that investing time in a skill that will net you income is time better spent than improving your OC skills. Make more money ! 

As Ferris Bueller is quoted, "It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up."


----------



## WarEagleAU (Aug 22, 2007)

they are really overpriced, but they pay the support folks, designers, manufacturing folks, etc good money, they also factor in overhead with the prices. truth be told, it probably only costs like 150 bucks USD at most for the whole card, but they tack on fees for everything from designers and such....in the end it can costs 4 times what it originally cost to manufacture it with the parts bought.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 22, 2007)

keakar said:


> i'm getting flashbacks of movie stars and actors in hollywood complaining about not paying enough taxes lol.
> 
> anyone who really feels that intel will lose money if they dont charge us $700 for a video card should just go ahead and mail them a check so they don't go out of buisness lol.



since when do intel make $700 video cards?
Since you started this thread, it'd be nice if you at least knew what you were talking about.



And really, the profit on those video cards is minor, if EVGA make a GTX or a 7100gs, in the end its the same profit - $2-$3 per card, sold in bulk. Thats how they make more money on the lower end segment, since they sell heaps of them. Any 'bulk' manufacturer sells things slightly above cost price, in order to remain competitive (Or, they find ways to make the product worth a higher price, pre-OC'd cards etc)


----------



## HAL7000 (Aug 22, 2007)

keakar said:


> i ran my own company for 28 years before i retired and yes i charged what i wanted to.
> 
> then when i had no customers, i had to lower my prices and slowly raised them to charge "only" what the market would bare (aka what the customer was willing to pay). any buisness that wants to stay in buisness must balance and adjust its prices to fit customers willingness and ability to buy its products. go ahead and double your prices then tell customers they must pay you more just because you think your worth it lol. see how long your charge whatever you want plan works in real life.
> 
> ...




keakar, 
I am not defensive at all, and I am sure you were not offensive,,,,

I understand your point, initially companies set prices, then adjusted the price accordingly based on the market. We are saying the same thing. What either of us is willing to pay matters not, because prices always fall in this industry due to the release of newer and better. Timing determines what price we are willing to spend. 



Quote from Dippysdoodlez:
This was in reference to this statement.
Read my underlined comments. Read what you wrote. Rethink your comment.
Please.
consumers = demand, prices = demand.


This is what I said....*it is the companies that will set their prices*, then in *response* to *consumer demand* they either *raise or lower prices*. Then *competition* also plays in, *but the consumer does not set prices.*

cost*+*production*=*price*+*consumer demand*+*competition*= *adjusted price

I don't need to rethink it, taking it apart as you have it does not translate what I originally expressed. Thanks for pointing out that i need to make sure that I am quoted properly, 
By the way, not to be off topic, when do you leave to enter in the NG?


----------



## keakar (Aug 22, 2007)

keakar said:


> anyone who really feels that intel will lose money if they dont charge us $700 for a video card should just go ahead and mail them a check so they don't go out of buisness lol.






Mussels said:


> since when do intel make $700 video cards?
> Since you started this thread, it'd be nice if you at least knew what you were talking about.
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


----------



## keakar (Aug 22, 2007)

If there is anyone out there who really feels that those companies will lose money if they don't charge us $700 for a video card then they should just go ahead and mail them a check so they don't go out of buisness lol.


----------



## DR.Death (Aug 22, 2007)

there sli but a single card dose not cost more then the computer is a big chunk but not all of it 

Processor : 	Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.40GHz 8MB Retail Box (3year) 	$ 333.00 		Motherboard : 	Asus P5N-E SLI S775 650i C2D DDRII GBLan 6-ch Audio (3year)$155.50 	
Memory 	Corsair XMS2 Dominator 2GB (2X1GB) PC6400 DDR2-800MHz (Lifetime)$ 228.88 	
Hard Disk (1st) :2 Western Digital SATA2 250GB 8MB Cache 7200RPM WD2500JS (3year) 	$ 76.88 
Hard Disk (2nd) :2 Western Digital SATA2 500GB 16MB Cache 7200RPM WD5000KS (3year) 	$ 127.00 
Video Card :2 XFX GeForce 8800 Ultra Extreme 768MB GDDR3 PCIe DVI (lifetime) $ 867.88 
Sound Card :Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Music Retail (1year) 	$ 101.88 	

CDRW :2 Pioneer DVR-212 18x +/- Dual Layer SATA DVD Burner Black (1year) 	$ 40.50 	

 Case :Lian-Li PC-61 Black Anodized Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Case 	$ 145.88 	
 Power Supply :BFG 650W Power Supply ATX 12V 2.0 EPS12V SLI Ready (lifetime) 	$ 135.00 

Total Price : $ 3324.66


----------



## keakar (Aug 22, 2007)

DR.Death said:


> there sli but a single card dose not cost more then the computer is a big chunk but not all of it
> 
> Video Card :2 XFX GeForce 8800 Ultra Extreme 768MB GDDR3 PCIe DVI (lifetime) $ 867.88



while your cards were only $400 there are over a dozen high end cards that sell over $700 and this is what we have been talking about.

early on i agreed that the video card was actually more like 20% of the cost of the computer itself, not the entire system as a whole.

since that time we have been debating how we can help lower the prices on these cards if we use our buying power to avoid overpaying and only get them during sales or with rebates. i believe this will help control the out of control price increases we are seeing. if you raised prices and customers still kept on buying them, would you ever stop raising prices?

some people feel they are cheap even at the high prices they are charging while i believe that those high end cards are at least double the price they should cost us to buy them.

EDIT: here is an example of the high end video cards we are talking about: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&SubCategory=48&N=2010380048


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## DR.Death (Aug 22, 2007)

400 no they are 867.88 each


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## keakar (Aug 22, 2007)

DR.Death said:


> 400 no they are 867.88 each



oh ok, you actually meant to say the non sli cards not "a single card"

since all high end cards and just about any new card made today is sli ready and we are not talking about the older cards with prices that are somewhat reasonable.


----------



## DR.Death (Aug 22, 2007)

no its in sli but it just did not add them 2ogether


----------



## DR.Death (Aug 22, 2007)

R

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.40GHz 8MB Retail Box (3year) 	Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.40GHz 8MB Retail Box (3year)
		$333.00

Asus P5N-E SLI S775 650i C2D DDRII GBLan 6-ch Audio (3year) 	Asus P5N-E SLI S775 650i C2D DDRII GBLan 6-ch Audio (3year)
		$155.50

Corsair XMS2 Dominator 2GB (2X1GB) PC6400 DDR2-800MHz (Lifetime) 	Corsair XMS2 Dominator 2GB (2X1GB) PC6400 DDR2-800MHz (Lifetime)
		$228.88

2 Western Digital SATA2 500GB 16MB Cache 7200RPM WD5000KS (3year) 	Western Digital SATA2 500GB 16MB Cache 7200RPM WD5000KS (3year)
		$254.00

2 Pioneer DVR-212 18x +/- Dual Layer SATA DVD Burner Black (1year) 	Pioneer DVR-212 18x +/- Dual Layer SATA DVD Burner Black (1year)
		$81.00

BFG 650W Power Supply ATX 12V 2.0 EPS12V SLI Ready (lifetime) 	BFG 650W Power Supply ATX 12V 2.0 EPS12V SLI Ready (lifetime)
		$135.00

2 Western Digital SATA2 250GB 16MB Cache 7200RPM WD2500KS (3year) 	Western Digital SATA2 250GB 16MB Cache 7200RPM WD2500KS (3year)
		$151.00

2 XFX GeForce 8800 Ultra Extreme 768MB GDDR3 PCIe DVI (lifetime) 	XFX GeForce 8800 Ultra Extreme 768MB GDDR3 PCIe DVI (lifetime)
		$1,735.76

Auzentech X-plosion 7.1 DTS 	Auzentech X-plosion 7.1 DTS
		$146.00
Sub-Total: $3,220.14


----------



## cdawall (Aug 22, 2007)

DR.DEATH said:
			
		

> BFG 650W Power Supply ATX 12V 2.0 EPS12V SLI Ready (lifetime) BFG 650W Power Supply ATX 12V 2.0 EPS12V SLI Ready (lifetime)
> $135.00
> 
> 2 XFX GeForce 8800 Ultra Extreme 768MB GDDR3 PCIe DVI (lifetime) XFX GeForce 8800 Ultra Extreme 768MB GDDR3 PCIe DVI (lifetime)
> ...



these are kinda not going to work together try mybe 700-800watts if you plan to oc at all

not to mention you cannot run 8800s on sli 8x which is what happens to be what you get with 650i SLi


----------



## keakar (Aug 22, 2007)

cdawall said:


> these are kinda not going to work together try mybe 700-800watts if you plan to oc at all
> 
> not to mention you cannot run 8800s on sli 8x which is what happens to be what you get with 650i SLi



not sure if he is for real anyway, nothing he "says" he has is listed in his specs


----------



## DR.Death (Aug 23, 2007)

no 
i am just building them i wish i had the money to build that ...lol


----------



## Grings (Aug 23, 2007)

cdawall said:


> these are kinda not going to work together try mybe 700-800watts if you plan to oc at all
> 
> not to mention you cannot run 8800s on sli 8x which is what happens to be what you get with 650i SLi



yes you can, because ive done it...





and so have vrzone


----------



## [I.R.A]_FBi (Aug 23, 2007)

overclocking medium range parts is the way to go ..


----------



## yogurt_21 (Aug 23, 2007)

lol comparing the highest gpu's on midrange cpu's, why yes then sure a the vga cost seems high. but if you check the highend cpus/mobos/psus/ optical drives/ monitors/ cases/cooling/ sound cards/etc

then you gpu's fit right in and infact end up quite a bit cheaper than the most expensive monitors.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143085
highest priced/fastest performing card on newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115026
highest priced/fastest performing cpu on newegg.


hmmm a trend perhaps? the cpu cost dwarfs the gpu, granted with sli the gpu wins but only by a small percentage.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703007
psu and yes you could go for multiple of these as well if you wanted to

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131074
mobo okay so the heart of the machine is cheap but hey that's the market.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822111151
hard drives and yes imagine a raid array of these. still think the gpu's are the most expensive?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145171
mem 2 sets of these are pretty pricy.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136124
you could go with 5 of these were you inclined to create a blu-ray burning tower.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836116142
speakers

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826159703
headphones (click and see 1$ savings lol)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119127
case and for those with supercooling you might need 2 of these, one for rig, one for cooling.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999087
3 of these, one for cpu, one for each gpu in sli.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002131
last and certainly not least, the monitors yes 2 of them.

*highend hardware is expensive!!!!!!!*

don't go looking at one expensive componet and compare it to other midrange or economy class components, because yes even the motherboard at 300$ is more expensive than a whole computer. (olpc project anyone?) vga's aren't anywhere near the most expensive piece of hardware, I didn't even touch on the server class/professional stuff. this is merely a glimpse of how expensive a truly highend rig can get. 

more than any of us here can afford? probbaly but there are millionaries out there who also buy computers, and like their cars they like them fast, expensive, and rare.

do some research before posting such a useless and baseless opinion which really shows you know nothing of actually expensive hardware. (which is fine) but being so, don't make claims of things you know nothing of.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 23, 2007)

see yogurt built a machine with equal parts and what do you kow they are well equal priced 

@grings

ehh thought you could only run 8X good find


----------



## driver66 (Aug 23, 2007)

keakar said:


> i noticed he said the highest price gpu was the $939 one yet if you look at neweggs list he is picking one near the bottom of the high end high priced cards.
> 
> have a look for yourself: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&SubCategory=48&N=2010380048
> 
> ...



Lmao best gpu for what?? That is for a workstation / Movie studio


----------



## kwchang007 (Aug 23, 2007)

keakar said:


> i noticed he said the highest price gpu was the $939 one yet if you look at neweggs list he is picking one near the bottom of the high end high priced cards.
> 
> have a look for yourself: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&SubCategory=48&N=2010380048
> 
> ...



Man that's a quadro.  For systems you don't game on using 2 cpus and a server mobo plus fb-dimms.

Something like this ($500 mobo )

And two of these (whoa 2x $800....1600 on dual cpus right there).

Four of these ($308 x4...$1232 on memory)

So that's already more than that graphics card by alot.  Then throw in some SAS 15000 rpm drives with a raid card, a sata raid card etc etc.


----------



## driver66 (Aug 23, 2007)

Most newwegg reviews are very suspect lol


----------



## keakar (Aug 23, 2007)

i am totally amazed by all the examples given to justify this price and that price percentage wise.

the prices on everything is too high and getting more out of control every day because as it has been proven here by your comments that the more you pay for it the happier you are to do so and even help make excuses why they should be that high. (manufacturers love you)

if GPUs went up to $5,000 tomorrow many here would swear they are still not overpriced because they also raised prices on everything else so by compare they are still priced right.


----------



## cdawall (Aug 23, 2007)

keakar said:


> i noticed he said the highest price gpu was the $939 one yet if you look at neweggs list he is picking one near the bottom of the high end high priced cards.
> 
> have a look for yourself: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&SubCategory=48&N=2010380048
> 
> ...



your kidding right thats a 7900GTX  made to run WS crap


----------



## cdawall (Aug 23, 2007)

keaker said:
			
		

> GPU Quadro FX5500
> PixelPipelines 12
> Memory
> Memory Size 1GB
> ...



other than that still looks very 7900GTX like to me


----------



## keakar (Aug 23, 2007)

ok, lets return to the topic we were on:


DO YOU THINK YOUR VIDEO CARD IS WORTH WHAT YOU PAID FOR IT 
OR DO YOU THINK IT SHOULD COST LESS MONEY TO BUY IT?


----------



## driver66 (Aug 23, 2007)

keakar said:


> ok, how about this:
> 
> 
> DO YOU THINK YOUR VIDEO CARD IS WORTH WHAT YOU PAID FOR IT
> OR DO YOU THINK IT SHOULD COST LESS MONEY TO BUY IT?



I feel compared to whats on the market ,,,,,I got my moneys worth


----------



## hat (Aug 23, 2007)

I feel this is priced right
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150244
this isnt
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150234


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## cdawall (Aug 24, 2007)

hat said:


> I feel this is priced right
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150244
> this isnt
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150234



$590  really isnt that bad for a 8800ultra


----------



## yogurt_21 (Aug 25, 2007)

and it not like this is anything new, the 9800xt was the first desktop card to break 400$, the x800xt was the first to break 500$ and the x1800xt was the first to break 600$ (on a side note this could be why nvidia has more money. lol) now the ultra was the first to break 700$ when first released. but the story doesn't end there. when the 9800xt was released gas was at $1.25 a gallon in AZ, when the x800XT was released, gas was at 1.60$ (a trend perhaps?) once the x1800xt came out it was at 2.30$ and when the ultra hit the shelves it was coming down to 2.85$ after the 3.50$ fiasco.

over that same period milk has gone from 1.50$ a gallon to now 3.75$ a gallon. an average "cookie cutter home" went from $170K to now $320K

and these are a few examples, the price of copper is sky high right now as another example.

inflation is part of life my freind.


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## cdawall (Aug 25, 2007)

yogurt_21 said:


> and it not like this is anything new, the 9800xt was the first desktop card to break 400$, the x800xt was the first to break 500$ and the x1800xt was the first to break 600$ (on a side note this could be why nvidia has more money. lol) now the ultra was the first to break 700$ when first released. but the story doesn't end there. when the 9800xt was released gas was at $1.25 a gallon in AZ, when the x800XT was released, gas was at 1.60$ (a trend perhaps?) once the x1800xt came out it was at 2.30$ and when the ultra hit the shelves it was coming down to 2.85$ after the 3.50$ fiasco.
> 
> over that same period milk has gone from 1.50$ a gallon to now 3.75$ a gallon. an average "cookie cutter home" went from $170K to now $320K
> 
> ...



gas is $2.40-2.65 here  never hit over $3.25 YEAH TEJAS


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