# Are TN panels matching IPS nowadays?



## Agentak74u (Jul 10, 2019)

Kinda long post..read if you got a plenty of time..

For years I heard about TN panels and how terrible the image quality is,before a month I tried a TN panels for the 1st time in action it was Asus  vp248h and man the image quality was to the ground, mostly I noticed that texts are so much jagged..but today I tried Asus xg248q at my friend's house and it looks exactly like an IPS panel I couldn't spot a deformity or "unsharp" image, I really didn't expect that, while I really didn't "feel" the 240fps experience, there was no stuttering at all games were very very smooth and I didn't notice the motion blur that I usually see on my 60hz IPS monitor (73 oc) which makes tracking kinda hard and I think it helped me not developing the usual headache that I get when I play for long times (is this a thing or I am just making things up?)

So my point is: are all high end TN panels have good image quality like the Asus xg248q or even better? If yes can you please guys list the best TN panels right now, s I was going to get a new 1440p 144hz IPS monitor but I was afraid of the black light bleed, but now I may reconsider TN panels..idk I am really confused now


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## spectatorx (Jul 10, 2019)

Still not.


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## kapone32 (Jul 10, 2019)

Ever since I went to IPS I cannot even look at TN panels anymore. The colours on TN look washed out compared to IPS and light bleed on IPS is generally a thing of the past too. The things that you complained about on your IPS panel are more to do with the refresh rate. I am confident that you will fall back in love with a 1440P 144hz panel. I was actually thinking about getting one too.


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Jul 10, 2019)

A few years ago, I got a couple of Dell 24" monitors (i forget the model) but there was a TN panel and an IPS panel version. I ordered them on best buys website and opted for in store pickup after I got out of work. I headed over there and thought nothing of it...until i got home.

I plugged in the monitors and started up WoW and my GOD the washed out colors were horrible. I came from an LG IPS panel that died on me (i loved that monitor). I could instantly tell a difference. I looked at the box and sure enough it was a TN panel. I contacted best buy about the error and they were quick to correct it for me. Brought home the IPS panels and fired up WoW and it was litereally night and day difference. 

Ill never go TN again.


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## Agentak74u (Jul 10, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> Ever since I went to IPS I cannot even look at TN panels anymore. The colours on TN look washed out compared to IPS and light bleed on IPS is generally a thing of the past too. The things that you complained about on your IPS panel are more to do with the refresh rate. I am confident that you will fall back in love with a 1440P 144hz panel. I was actually thinking about getting one too.


I noticed how good the image quality was right after the windows booted up on the desktop (I still didn't touch the mouse at that moment), but also I have a cheap IPS monitor since years (Samsung s22e391h..which is technically PLS) and I have never tried a high end IPS monitor..but there shouldn't be much of a difference than my ips, should be?


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## kapone32 (Jul 10, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> I noticed how good the image quality was right after the windows booted up on the desktop (I still didn't touch the mouse at that moment), but also I have a cheap IPS monitor since years (Samsung s22e391h..which is technically PLS) and I have never tried a high end IPS monitor..but there shouldn't be much of a difference than my ips, should be?



You are talking about a 1080P panel. 1440P would be the main difference IPS looks absolutely amazing at that resolution, before I went to 4K I had a QNIX 2710 (Korean Samsung B grade panel) 1440P that OC to 120HZ. That was the first time I felt like I was seeing games like how they looked in magazines. Now we also have HDR and other goodies too.


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## Zareek (Jul 10, 2019)

If you value image quality, viewing angles and color range TN just doesn't stack up to IPS. Some VA and PLS versions are a good in-between and some people prefer them to IPS.  Best case, get your eyes on them. Second best case, do your research. Brand also doesn't necessarily mean anything beyond warranty coverage these days. Even the little guys are making nice monitors. Other than the wobbly stands, I love my AOC Q3279VWFD8 monitors. 32" 10bit IPS 75hz FreeSync around $220 from Amazon these days.


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## dirtyferret (Jul 10, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> Kinda long post..read if you got a plenty of time..
> 
> For years I heard about TN panels and how terrible the image quality is,before a month I tried a TN panels for the 1st time in action it was Asus  vp248h and man the image quality was to the ground, mostly I noticed that texts are so much jagged..but today I tried Asus xg248q at my friend's house and it looks exactly like an IPS panel I couldn't spot a deformity or "unsharp" image, I really didn't expect that, while I really didn't "feel" the 240fps experience, there was no stuttering at all games were very very smooth and I didn't notice the motion blur that I usually see on my 60hz IPS monitor (73 oc) which makes tracking kinda hard and I think it helped me not developing the usual headache that I get when I play for long times (is this a thing or I am just making things up?)
> 
> So my point is: are all high end TN panels have good image quality like the Asus xg248q or even better? If yes can you please guys list the best TN panels right now, s I was going to get a new 1440p 144hz IPS monitor but I was afraid of the black light bleed, but now I may reconsider TN panels..idk I am really confused now



Depends on the exact monitors in question, personally I would take a quality IPS over a quality TN.  The only person who can answer your question is you.  You either like the Asus xg248q over your current model or you don't.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 10, 2019)

Zareek said:


> get your eyes on them


^^^This^^^

Don't assume all of the same type monitors are alike. And don't assume any monitor is properly calibrated out of the box. In fact, you should probably assume it is not properly calibrated.


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## kapone32 (Jul 10, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> ^^^This^^^
> 
> Don't assume all of the same type monitors are alike. And don't assume any monitor is properly calibrated out of the box. In fact, you should probably assume it is not properly calibrated.



That is an excellent point


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## El Cinico (Jul 10, 2019)

If You are willing to give TN a chance You should check out the Dell S2719DGF (1440p, 155hz, Freesync). I was in a same boat as You, had a Dell 60hz IPS, wanted to upgrade, but I had concerns about backlight bleed, ghosting, IPS glow, and IPS/VA monitors with these specs are a lot more expensive. So I've been using this monitor for about 6 months and I'm really happy with it. 

The colors are not as good as on my old IPS monitor, but they are pretty good, especially when you are sitting right in front of it, a lot better then some people would expect from a TN, viewing angles are also decent side to side, bad up/down, and gaming is superb.

Here's a link for a comprehensive review from PC Monitors if You are interested, they put it on their recommended list.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 10, 2019)

No.

TN is cheap and has inherent drawbacks. They haven't changed. Good TN was always available and yes it trickled down the stack a bit, but that is all.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 10, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> Kinda long post..read if you got a plenty of time..
> 
> For years I heard about TN panels and how terrible the image quality is,before a month I tried a TN panels for the 1st time in action it was Asus  vp248h and man the image quality was to the ground, mostly I noticed that texts are so much jagged..but today I tried Asus xg248q at my friend's house and it looks exactly like an IPS panel I couldn't spot a deformity or "unsharp" image, I really didn't expect that, while I really didn't "feel" the 240fps experience, there was no stuttering at all games were very very smooth and I didn't notice the motion blur that I usually see on my 60hz IPS monitor (73 oc) which makes tracking kinda hard and I think it helped me not developing the usual headache that I get when I play for long times (is this a thing or I am just making things up?)
> 
> So my point is: are all high end TN panels have good image quality like the Asus xg248q or even better? If yes can you please guys list the best TN panels right now, s I was going to get a new 1440p 144hz IPS monitor but I was afraid of the black light bleed, but now I may reconsider TN panels..idk I am really confused now


While TN panels have become a much better product, their main advantage is speed. They have really high signal response and pixel refresh rates. Color reproduction has greatly improved in the last few years but is still not on par with IPS. Viewing angles have also improved. If gaming is your primary focus, a TN based panel will serve you best. If you are going to be doing a lot of content creation/viewing and other non-gaming tasks, an IPS panel will serve you best.


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## El Cinico (Jul 10, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> No.
> 
> TN is cheap and has inherent drawbacks. They haven't changed. Good TN was always available and yes it trickled down the stack a bit, but that is all.



It's not all things to all people, and every panel type has some drawbacks. For gaming it works great.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 10, 2019)

El Cinico said:


> It's not all things to all people, and every panel type has some drawbacks. For gaming it works great.



Sure! But the question was if it matches IPS and it does not. It gives you a very minor input lag advantage and you get so-so color accuracy, and contrast shift under an angle. Whether that is worth it over IPS, is up to you indeed. But it IS inferior technology compared to all the other panel types out there - except E-Ink I suppose.


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## Agentak74u (Jul 10, 2019)

Well my next monitor will be mostly gaming with some youtubing and movies to a degree, but my main concern is how games will run/look good..if anyone knows those high end high refresh rate IPS monitors (i.e pg279q) got the same "smooth" feeling vs high end TN panels? Also what's about the "blur" since IPS pixel response times are higher than TN panels right?


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## Vayra86 (Jul 10, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> Well my next monitor will be mostly gaming with some youtubing and movies to a degree, but my main concern is how games will run/look good..if anyone knows those high end high refresh rate IPS monitors (i.e pg279q) got the same "smooth" feeling vs high end TN panels? Also what's about the "blur" since IPS pixel response times are higher than TN panels right?



Smoothness = stable FPS and a display that refreshes in sync. That can also be at 60fps, you'd be surprised. So really, this is mostly up to your PC and not the monitor.

Motion blur is hard to defeat, high refresh won't be your only/biggest help there. Unless you run all your games at a steady 240fps on a 240hz panel, which I strongly doubt, your next best bet is a strobing backlight. It works miracles even at lower fps/refresh, 120 is sufficient.

Example

Light boost / Turbo240 / ULMB are strobe techniques - twice the result in clarity compared to a 240hz panel. It relates to how our eyes work, as well. By inserting a black frame, we perceive a new image as a separate one.






Good IPS at high refresh is pretty costly. Another option to consider might be VA. I do fancy it a lot - it matches IPS colors (sometimes needs calibration though) and viewing angles are much better than TN but there is a very minor tone shift on some panels - only noticeable if you really look for it. VA's advantage is that it has at least 3x better static contrast than either TN or IPS, which makes the image 'pop' a lot more. Comparable to TVs (Many HDTVs are VA). High refresh VA is often a bit less expensive as well than IPS. Main disadvantage: it can suffer from a few weak G2G response times on (usually) the darker shades of gray and brown. This looks a bit like a 'smearing' effect. I consider it bearable, others do not, it also gets reduced (nearly vanishes) when the panel is warmed up.

In my view, a VA panel with strobe is the ultimate gaming solution. If you are all about competitive shooters, TN can still be preferable, but a lot of that 'speed' is placebo these days. VA is as fast as IPS can be which is more than sufficient.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 10, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> except E-Ink I suppose.


E-Ink panels are a joy to read from. That is their main appeal and it's a wonderful panel type for that purpose.


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## spectatorx (Jul 10, 2019)

There is not many high refreshrate ips displays, recently gigabyte released few, worth checking out.


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## Zareek (Jul 11, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> ^^^This^^^
> 
> Don't assume all of the same type monitors are alike. And don't assume any monitor is properly calibrated out of the box. In fact, you should probably assume it is not properly calibrated.


You can't calibrate the bad viewing angles out of a TN display. The color reproduction has come a long way but as far as most people are concerned if a picture looks odd or the colors are off from being a few degrees off center the image quality isn't very good! I do agree you can assume nothing, particularly with technology but TN hasn't changed enough to fix its most fundamental flaw quite yet.


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## INSTG8R (Jul 11, 2019)

I went from a 144hz IPS (ASUS MG279Q) to a Quantum Dot VA (Samsung CGH70) and I’m really missing my IPS. The VA has absolutely horrible backlight bleed, very disappointing.


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## biffzinker (Jul 11, 2019)

INSTG8R said:


> I went from a 144hz IPS (ASUS MG279Q) to a Quantum Dot VA (Samsung CGH70) and I’m really missing my IPS. The VA has absolutely horrible backlight bleed, very disappointing.


Haven't noticed any backlight bleed on my Samsung Quantum Dot VA C27H711. All I see are true blacks or black screen without any bleed through.

Edit: I moved from a IPS panel with backlight glow in the lower left/right, and top left corner.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 11, 2019)

Zareek said:


> You can't calibrate the bad viewing angles out of a TN display.


There have been improvements in that aspect. Besides, when was the last time you were more than 30 degrees off angle from your screen? The viewing angle point is kind of a non-point these days.


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## Athlonite (Jul 11, 2019)

I went from an old Alien-ware AW2210 TN 22"  60Hz CCFL back lit monitor to an Viewsonic  VX2457MHD 24" VA 75Hz Freesync LED back lit monitor and the difference is night and day I would have liked to have gone high refresh rate IPS but all the good ones are totally over priced here in Gougeland (NZ)


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## biffzinker (Jul 11, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> E-Ink panels are a joy to read from. That is their main appeal and it's a wonderful panel type for that purpose.


I've always wanted to see a large e-ink display in person besides the Amazon Kindle


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 11, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> I've always wanted to see a large e-ink display in person besides the Amazon Kindle


Like this one?;





						Amazon.com: BOOX Nova Pro 7.8 ePaper E-Reader, Front Light, Flush Glass Screen, 2G 32G Support Upgrade to Android 9 Soon: Home Audio & Theater
					

Buy BOOX Nova Pro 7.8 ePaper E-Reader, Front Light, Flush Glass Screen, 2G 32G Support Upgrade to Android 9 Soon: eBook Readers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				



There's also this one;





						Amazon.com: BOOX Note Ereader,Android 6.0 32 GB 10.3" Dual Touch HD Display, Handwriting Search: Electronics
					

Buy BOOX Note Ereader, Android 6.0 32 GB 10.3" Dual Touch HD Display, Handwriting Search: eBook Readers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				



And the largest/priciest;





						Amazon.com: BOOX Max2 Pro 13.3, 4 G 64 G Android 6.0, Dual Touch, White: Home Audio & Theater
					

Amazon.com: BOOX Max2 Pro 13.3, 4 G 64 G Android 6.0, Dual Touch, White: Home Audio & Theater



					www.amazon.com


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## tabascosauz (Jul 11, 2019)

As long as you have anywhere near normal colour vision, once you go IPS you don't go back (at least not for colour accuracy and image quality reasons).

For many years, I had an old 16:10 24" Syncmaster with TV abilities. Not bad, and it's still soldiering on to this day. But then I moved on to my first IPS, a S24D390 and never looked back. Next was a U2515H and i2369VM, great 25" 1440p and 23" 1080p panels respectively.

Currently, there is a PB287Q, a 28" 4K TN, and a GW2765HT, a 27" 1440p IPS in my house. I've always used the PB287Q as it's a great quality TN monitor, but the IPS difference on the GW2765 is night and day as soon as I start doing photo work. I decided my 1070 probably felt more comfortable staying at 1440p anyways, so I gave the PB287Q to my dad instead.

For manga reading, I still have an old F2380 Syncmaster, an early VA panel. It has a noticeable startup time, brightness is low, and being VA, colours are not quite as vibrant as IPS (even good TNs are catching up to VAs). But the viewing angles, like with IPS, are something no TN panel will ever imitate successfully, so I have it set up vertically to the side, which is useful for skimming research materials.

For 24" and smaller panels, I don't see a problem with TN, especially for those who don't require colour accuracy or a high price tag. When the panels start going beyond 27", things get dicey, as the TN viewing angles really do wonky things to the corners of your monitors.

The problem with a lot of cheaper IPS monitors (especially those poised as a cheap upgrade for TN users) is that the colours can be way off - that usually tends towards the obscenely _oversaturated_. Laymen who aren't familiar with colour accuracy either in a display or photography context are generally (and rather misleadingly) attracted to the extreme vibrance that IPS panels can provide. But it's an easy task to choose a monitor that's reasonably accurate based on comprehensive reviews, and download a colour profile from said reviewers to apply to your monitor. IIRC TFTcentral has always been a good site for monitor reviews.


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## INSTG8R (Jul 11, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Haven't noticed any backlight bleed on my Samsung Quantum Dot VA C27H711. All I see are true blacks or black screen without any bleed through.
> 
> Edit: I moved from a IPS panel with backlight glow in the lower left/right, and top left corner.


Mine literally has “zones” all around the borders like marquee lighting. Also mines a Freesync 2 HDR panel and I suspect it has to do with the local dimming but I haven’t found any adjustments that improve it.


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## Octopuss (Jul 11, 2019)

What are the other IPS equivalent panel technologies? It's so complicated these days I'm lost.


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## Athlonite (Jul 11, 2019)

Octopuss said:


> What are the other IPS equivalent panel technologies? It's so complicated these days I'm lost.



*Twisted Nematic (TN)*
Twisted Nematic LCDs are the most commonly manufactured and used types of monitors across a wide range of industries. They’re most commonly used by gamers because they’re inexpensive and boast faster response times than most of the other display types on this list. The only real downside to these monitors is that they possess low quality and limited contrast ratios, colour reproduction, and viewing angles. However, they suffice for everyday operations.
*IPS Panel Technology*
In Plane Switching displays are considered to be among the best of the best when it comes to LCD technology as they offer superior viewing angles, excellent image quality, and vibrant colour accuracy and contrast. They’re most commonly used by graphic designers and in other applications that require the highest possible standards for image and colour reproduction.
*VA Panel*
Vertical Alignment panels fall somewhere in the middle between TN and IPS panel technology. While they have much better viewing angles and higher quality colour reproduction features than TN panels, they also tend to have significantly slower response times. However, even their most positive aspects still don’t come anywhere close to holding a candle to IPS panels, which is why they’re much more affordable and suitable for everyday use.
*Advanced Fringe Field Switching*
AFFS LCDs offers far superior performance and a wider range of colour reproduction than even IPS panel technology. The applications involved in this type of LCD display are so advanced that they can minimize colour distortion without compromising on the extremely wide viewing angle. This screen is typically used in highly advanced and professional environments such as in the cockpits of commercial airplanes.

also these

*What is Super PLS?*
Super PLS (_Plane to Line Switching_) is a proprietary LCD panel type developed by Samsung that is very similar in design and construction to IPS panel technology. Samsung has made claims stating Super PLS panels have wider viewing angles and produce 10% more brightness than IPS displays while being cheaper to produce. The 27" Samsung S27A850D was the first LCD monitor released to make use of Super PLS.
*What is AHVA?*
Yet another proprietary "IPS-like" panel type that offers similar performance to PLS. Developed by AUO, AHVA is short for _Advanced Hyper-Viewing Angle_. The acronym can be slightly confusing as AHVA technology will sometimes be mixed up with Vertical Alignment (VA, see below) even though it makes use of In-Plane Switching (IPS).


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## Valantar (Jul 11, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> Kinda long post..read if you got a plenty of time..
> 
> For years I heard about TN panels and how terrible the image quality is,before a month I tried a TN panels for the 1st time in action it was Asus  vp248h and man the image quality was to the ground, mostly I noticed that texts are so much jagged..but today I tried Asus xg248q at my friend's house and it looks exactly like an IPS panel I couldn't spot a deformity or "unsharp" image, I really didn't expect that, while I really didn't "feel" the 240fps experience, there was no stuttering at all games were very very smooth and I didn't notice the motion blur that I usually see on my 60hz IPS monitor (73 oc) which makes tracking kinda hard and I think it helped me not developing the usual headache that I get when I play for long times (is this a thing or I am just making things up?)
> 
> So my point is: are all high end TN panels have good image quality like the Asus xg248q or even better? If yes can you please guys list the best TN panels right now, s I was going to get a new 1440p 144hz IPS monitor but I was afraid of the black light bleed, but now I may reconsider TN panels..idk I am really confused now


It sounds like your impressions of the quality differences between TN and IPS are a bit off. A TN panel shouldn't be any less sharp or more jagged than an IPS - jaggies in text might be system settings (windows has a system for tuning text rendering), and general lack of sharpness has more to do with resolution and the display coating than panel type. That being said, all panel tech can be used in poor quality panels with poor image quality.

The main differences between the major alternatives:
IPS: Medium contrast (1000:1 average), great color (often wide color gamut, beyond 100% sRGB, high end monitors can exceed 100% Adobe RGB or even go near 100% DCI-P3, can normally be calibrated to very high accuracy), good color uniformity, slow pixel response times (normally in the 5-10ms range, some are better, many cheap IPS panels are terrible in this regard) which also means most panels are 60Hz - though faster panels have become somewhat common in later years. Blocks the backlight a bit more than TN, so might be a bit dimmer depending on the backlight. Great viewing angles and often not much color shift from oblique angles. Often have a "bloom" issue where black areas don't go quite black (not the same as backlight bleed) and the effect shifts or shimmers as you move your head.

VA (and variants): Great contrast (2500:1 is bad for VA, 3-3500:1 is normal), good color (not quite IPS-grade gamuts on average, but close enough, normally beyond 100% sRGB, also decent accuracy, high end panels can match good IPS), worse color uniformity than IPS, but still okay. Better response times (<5ms) so also more high refresh rate options, lets through a bit more light than IPS, very good viewing angles but a bit more color shift than IPS when viewed from the side - but not an issue. No bloom, but poor panels can have weird contrast banding or blocking issues.

TN: Poor contrast (the best reach about 1000:1, 500:1 isn't unheard of), poor color (good panels reach 100% sRGB, higher doesn't happen, less (50-70% sRGB) is very normal) so also poor color accuracy. Very good response times (1ms is not rare), so lots of high refresh rate options too. Terrible viewing angles, often visible color shifting when moving just a little off center, with the signature inverted colors at oblique angles. Makes the tech useless for large panel sizes and close viewing as you'll always be seeing part of the panel from a poor angle.

While there shouldn't be major differences in sharpness, contrast does affect perceived sharpness, so lower contrast will obviously make a display look less sharp, particularly for text.

Lastly, the effect of a wider color gamut should never be trivialized. The effect on perceived image quality is enormous, but not really quantifiable. It has to be seen - but once seen, most people can't go back.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 11, 2019)

INSTG8R said:


> I went from a 144hz IPS (ASUS MG279Q) to a Quantum Dot VA (Samsung CGH70) and I’m really missing my IPS. The VA has absolutely horrible backlight bleed, very disappointing.



I think that was noted in reviews as well. The CHG was looking very promising but didn't deliver. Other versions however did. And backlight bleed completely does not fit an average VA panel. My panel has none whatsoever... Bleeding is an IPS and TN trait. Not sure that is what you're seeing, maybe its just the poorer blacks that Samsung was noted for.

You mention marquee like effect later. That sounds like a pretty poor quality control OR just Samsung being hit/miss as usual. Did you contact them for it? Something can definitely be said as to a degree of uniformity you would expect from a half decent panel.


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## bug (Jul 11, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> Kinda long post..read if you got a plenty of time..
> 
> For years I heard about TN panels and how terrible the image quality is,before a month I tried a TN panels for the 1st time in action it was Asus  vp248h and man the image quality was to the ground, mostly I noticed that texts are so much jagged..but today I tried Asus xg248q at my friend's house and it looks exactly like an IPS panel I couldn't spot a deformity or "unsharp" image, I really didn't expect that, while I really didn't "feel" the 240fps experience, there was no stuttering at all games were very very smooth and I didn't notice the motion blur that I usually see on my 60hz IPS monitor (73 oc) which makes tracking kinda hard and I think it helped me not developing the usual headache that I get when I play for long times (is this a thing or I am just making things up?)
> 
> So my point is: are all high end TN panels have good image quality like the Asus xg248q or even better? If yes can you please guys list the best TN panels right now, s I was going to get a new 1440p 144hz IPS monitor but I was afraid of the black light bleed, but now I may reconsider TN panels..idk I am really confused now


TN panels are not more or less jagged than any other panel type. And they can be calibrated to produce accurate colors.
The problem with TN is viewing angles. When you look at a TN monitor (especially one of the larger ones) you will not see a single contrast level, but rather a contrast gradient as you sweep across the monitor. It's ok for gaming, but when I started editing photos it became unbearable within a day.

As for the backlight bleed, any panel type can suffer from that, this is more about the attention the manufacturer pays.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 11, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> As long as you have anywhere near normal colour vision, once you go IPS you don't go back (at least not for colour accuracy and image quality reasons).


Unless you need the the performance of a TN panel, this is going to be true.



Vayra86 said:


> Bleeding is an IPS and TN trait.


The thing is, not everyone is bothered by it. Both of my panels have a little bleed through, but it's so little that unless I'm in a perfectly dark room and the screen is completely black, it's just not noticeable.


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## bug (Jul 11, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> The thing is, not everyone is bothered by it. Both of my panels have a little bleed through, but it's so little that unless I'm in a perfectly dark room and the screen is completely black, it's just not noticeable.


There's always some level of bleed. When you hear about a bleeding problem it's when there's too much of it.
For office work, where MS Office is using bright themes, bleed levels that would drive you crazy while gaming can become unnoticeable.


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## Zareek (Jul 11, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> There have been improvements in that aspect.


I haven't seen or read anything about improved viewing angles with TN in a long time. I'm sure they are much better than they where 5 years ago everything seemingly improves with time. 



lexluthermiester said:


> Besides, when was the last time you were more than 30 degrees off angle from your screen?


Actually, I'm writing this on two displays set up in an elongated V shape probably 120 degrees offset. At any one moment my head can easily be 30 degrees or more offset. My last experience with TN displays was at my last employer. The Network Admin there buys displays solely base on brand recognition, size and cost. This last year he "upgraded me" to a brand new pair of 24" Viewsonic monitors. I had to go back to my 22" IPS displays because the picture was all wonky(color variation, blurry text mostly) with the viewing angles I had setup. To me it was worth sacrificing the screen space to keep the angles that work best for me and the setup I already had on my desk. I'm guessing there are TN units with better viewing angles but I haven't seen any.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 11, 2019)

Zareek said:


> Actually, I'm writing this on two displays set up in an elongated V shape probably 120 degrees offset. At any one moment my head can easily be 30 degrees or more offset.


One, you're the exception rather than the rule. Two, is there a reason why you can't turn them to face you?


Zareek said:


> (color variation, blurry text mostly)


Windows settings might have quickly fixed those two problems.

However you clearly illustrate the points made by many in this thread, you are not gaming and have a practical need for IPS.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 11, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> TN is cheap and has inherent drawbacks. They haven't changed.


Of course they have.


Zareek said:


> You can't calibrate the bad viewing angles out of a TN display.


Viewing angles? This is a poor argument - regardless if for IPS or against TN displays. Who sits off to the side, way above or way below their computer monitor? Hardly anyone. 99.9% of us sit right in front of it. If we have more than one monitor, we typically angle each monitor to be dead center. 



Zareek said:


> if a picture looks odd or the colors are off from being a few degrees off center the image quality isn't very good! I do agree you can assume nothing


"*If*"? It sure seems you are assuming every TN buyer buys the cheapest TN display available. There are cheap and poor quality TN displays just as there are cheap and poor quality IPS displays. And there are expensive good quality of each. As I said above, and you quoted me, "_Don't assume all of the same type monitors are alike._" The better TN displays have much better viewing angles than the entry level displays - for those computer users who like to sit off to the side! 

IMO, viewing angles matter with TVs in the living room where multiple people may be viewing as there can only be one person sitting in the "sweet spot". With computer monitors, it is very rare for multiple people to be viewing at the same time so sitting in the sweet spot is not an issue. 

And for the record, sitting in the sweet spot for optimum viewing angles is exactly why curved monitors and TVs have not sold at the rates the makers' marketing weenies have wanted. But that's for another discussion.


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## Zareek (Jul 11, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> One, you're the exception rather than the rule. Two, is there a reason why you can't turn them to face you?


One, I totally disagree. People in office environments with multiple displays frequently use similar setups. Compound that with the "Hey Co-Worker X take a look at this" and they are at an angle to your desk or standing up. Even worse when there are a number of co-workers involved. Two, I like them them that way and the way I had my desk laid out and had so much on my desk, I could fit bigger displays but not with them side by side straight ahead. I would need a bigger desk, well I did need a bigger desk but that wasn't an option.



lexluthermiester said:


> Windows settings might have quickly fixed those two problems.
> 
> However you clearly illustrate the points made by many in this thread, you are not gaming and have a practical need for IPS.


Yeah it wasn't a Windows setting. I've been an IT pro for more than 10 years and an enthusiast for almost 30 years, I kinda know my way around a PC. I think of it as a I don't have a practical need for ultra high frame rates. Although, based on this LTT video, I kind of want to try it and see if it makes a difference to me.


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## Agentak74u (Jul 11, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Of course they have.
> Viewing angles? This is a poor argument - regardless if for IPS or against TN displays. Who sits off to the side, way above or way below their computer monitor? Hardly anyone. 99.9% of us sit right in front of it. If we have more than one monitor, we typically angle each monitor to be dead center.
> 
> "*If*"? It sure seems you are assuming every TN buyer buys the cheapest TN display available. There are cheap and poor quality TN displays just as there are cheap and poor quality IPS displays. And there are expensive good quality of each. As I said above, and you quoted me, "_Don't assume all of the same type monitors are alike._" The better TN displays have much better viewing angles than the entry level displays - for those computer users who like to sit off to the side!
> ...


This is what I want.. people keep saying "viewing angles" and "professional editing", like really guys all I want is a screen that 99% of the times I will be setting dead center and mostly gaming, smh


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## Zareek (Jul 11, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Of course they have.
> Viewing angles? This is a poor argument - regardless if for IPS or against TN displays. Who sits off to the side, way above or way below their computer monitor? Hardly anyone. 99.9% of us sit right in front of it. If we have more than one monitor, we typically angle each monitor to be dead center.
> 
> "*If*"? It sure seems you are assuming every TN buyer buys the cheapest TN display available. There are cheap and poor quality TN displays just as there are cheap and poor quality IPS displays. And there are expensive good quality of each. As I said above, and you quoted me, "_Don't assume all of the same type monitors are alike._" The better TN displays have much better viewing angles than the entry level displays - for those computer users who like to sit off to the side!
> ...


Okay I get it, you love TN and you are entitled to your opinion. Please stop inferring things in what I write. I have made it more than clear that in my experience and from what I have seen, TN has major flaws that for me personally  are a problem.  Yes technology improves with time. I obviously haven't seen every TN display ever made, any person with half a brain should _ASSUME_ that!


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Jul 11, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> Well my next monitor will be mostly gaming with some youtubing and movies to a degree, but my main concern is how games will run/look good..if anyone knows those high end high refresh rate IPS monitors (i.e pg279q) got the same "smooth" feeling vs high end TN panels? Also what's about the "blur" since IPS pixel response times are higher than TN panels right?



LG announced the worlds first 1ms, high refresh rate IPS gaming monitor thanks to new nano IPS technology. With that monitor you can enjoy the wide color gamut and wide viewing angles of IPS with a fast response time of 1ms and a high refresh rate, its really the master of all traits for a gaming monitor right now so check it out. 









						LG Unveils the UltraGear Nano IPS NVIDIA G-SYNC Gaming Monitor - World's First 1ms IPS Display
					

At this year's E3, LG Electronics (LG) is unveiling the new LG UltraGear Nano IPS NVIDIA G-SYNC gaming monitor, the world's first 1 millisecond (ms)1 IPS display. The UltraGear is a gamer's dream come true, employing Nano IPS technology to achieve phenomenal color reproduction, ultra-fast...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 11, 2019)

Zareek said:


> One, I totally disagree. People in office environments with multiple displays frequently use similar setups.


You disagree as you wish, but that disagreement doesn't make your use case scenario the norm. I have two jobs and own a business. No one in any of those organizations uses the set up you described and many of them use a multi display setup.


Zareek said:


> Compound that with the "Hey Co-Worker X take a look at this" and they are at an angle to your desk or standing up. Even worse when there are a number of co-workers involved. Two, I like them them that way and the way I had my desk laid out and had so much on my desk, I could fit bigger displays but not with them side by side straight ahead. I would need a bigger desk, well I did need a bigger desk but that wasn't an option.


Ok, like I said;


lexluthermiester said:


> However you clearly illustrate the points made by many in this thread, you are not gaming *and have a practical need for IPS.*


There's no need to argue a point that I ultimately agreed with you on.


Zareek said:


> Yeah it wasn't a Windows setting. I've been an IT pro for more than 10 years and an enthusiast for almost 30 years,


For me 27 years and 39 years..


Zareek said:


> I kinda know my way around a PC.


Hey, me too!


Zareek said:


> Although, based on this LTT video, I kind of want to try it and see if it makes a difference to me.


Oh, please know that it will. If you can get them for your office, 120/144/240hz displays are a godsend!


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## HammerON (Jul 11, 2019)

So far this thread has been pretty civil in the discussion, but let us not get caught up in arguing or bickering.  Take it to PM if you feel you need to prove your point(s).

I personally would not go with a TN panel as I have been using a IPS panel for over 10 years and have loved playing games and editing photos.
But since the OP states that this will be strictly for gaming and he is going to sit right in front of the monitor, then maybe the OP should look at a TN panel as they appear to be cheaper and have a bigger selection.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 11, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Of course they have.
> Viewing angles? This is a poor argument - regardless if for IPS or against TN displays. Who sits off to the side, way above or way below their computer monitor? Hardly anyone. 99.9% of us sit right in front of it. If we have more than one monitor, we typically angle each monitor to be dead center.
> 
> "*If*"? It sure seems you are assuming every TN buyer buys the cheapest TN display available. There are cheap and poor quality TN displays just as there are cheap and poor quality IPS displays. And there are expensive good quality of each. As I said above, and you quoted me, "_Don't assume all of the same type monitors are alike._" The better TN displays have much better viewing angles than the entry level displays - for those computer users who like to sit off to the side!
> ...



No, Bill, just no. Go sit in front of a recent TN and the viewing angle story is undeniable.  People can prefer things but that is another story - there is no denying that even when perfectly seated in front of it, any 24 inch or larger TN will have contrast shift.

Preference and facts about technology can exist side by side just fine. That was the purpose of the topic start as well; to figure out if facts about tech had changed. On this subject, they have not.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 11, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> Go sit in front of a recent TN and the viewing angle story is undeniable.


I just did that. Not seeing a problem.


Vayra86 said:


> there is no denying that even when perfectly seated in front of it, *any 24 inch or larger TN will have contrast shift.*


Um, no they do not. The one I just stood in front of was a $140 BenQ GL2760H 27" 2ms TN panel and it has no discernible shift in contrast or brightness looking at it from straight on. Even from a slight angle there is no shift. It's not until you get to about 30 to 40 degree angle does a shift begin to show. However, even an IPS panel will show some contrast and brightness shift beyond a 40 degree angle. I also did this with one of our $110 Acer 24" TN displays and the same thing, no shift. Both of those panels are budget models(by our standards) and look fine.

Bill is correct on several of the points in the post you quoted. Current model TN panels are much improved over past TN panels.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 11, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> This is what I want.. people keep saying "viewing angles" and "professional editing", like really guys all I want is a screen that 99% of the times I will be setting dead center and mostly gaming, smh



If you sit dead center, you will still be able to perceive contrast shift. Its minor, but it exists. Don't mistake what you want with what you really prefer to hear  because it would save some money  The problem with TN is that this shift in contrast also _visibly moves along with your position. _So you will notice it the moment you move your head a bit.

The happy quoter above me that seems desperate for attention... this also depends on viewing distance. You say 30-40 degree angles. Now look at the typical gamer after a half hour of gaming. People crawl into their screens and it happens naturally for most, and when they do, TN's problems come to the fore. Addtionally, what you see with newer TN is that the contrast shift is not left/right but top to bottom. Less noticeable, but still very much there. All they did was flip the panel 90 degrees. If that is improvement to you... good on you.

The best advice here is to go and figure it out for yourself. When you do order a panel,  make sure it has an easy return policy no questions asked. Its better than looking at monitors in a random shop, because lighting and seating conditions will be different in your cave.

Either way, with respect to what HammerON said... the info is there, make the best of it


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## R-T-B (Jul 11, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> E-Ink panels are a joy to read from. That is their main appeal and it's a wonderful panel type for that purpose.



I agree, but I think he meant gaming would suck on them...  and it would.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 11, 2019)

R-T-B said:


> I agree, but I think he meant gaming would suck on them...  and it would.


Oh yes, of course! They are absolutely wonderful for reading! Eliminates eye-strain completely, but by *no means* can they be considered viable for mainstream gaming.


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## R-T-B (Jul 11, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Oh yes, of course! They are absolutely wonderful for reading! Eliminates eye-strain completely, but by *no means* can they be considered viable for mainstream gaming.



I could picture like, a snake game working with low refresh.  But that's about it... lol.

EDIT:  Card games, solitaire, minesweeper.  Had a brainspasm and didn't think of those...


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 11, 2019)

R-T-B said:


> I could picture like, a snake game working with low refresh. But that's about it... lol.
> 
> EDIT: Card games, solitaire, minesweeper. Had a brainspasm and didn't think of those...


That's fair, ultra casual games might work, but that's why I stated "mainstream" gaming.


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## bug (Jul 11, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Viewing angles? This is a poor argument - regardless if for IPS or against TN displays. Who sits off to the side, way above or way below their computer monitor? Hardly anyone. 99.9% of us sit right in front of it. If we have more than one monitor, we typically angle each monitor to be dead center.


Even if you look straight at the monitor, you're still looking at the edges at an angle. TN doesn't like that.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 11, 2019)

bug said:


> Even if you look straight at the monitor, you're still looking at the edges at an angle. TN doesn't like that.


That applies to old TN panels. The newer models just don't do that.


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## Valantar (Jul 12, 2019)

bug said:


> Even if you look straight at the monitor, you're still looking at the edges at an angle. TN doesn't like that.


That's my experience from the 24" Samsung (not a cheap panel at the time) i had before I got my Dell U2711 back in... 2011? There was very noticeable contrast and color shifting towards the edges and corners of the display, no matter how dead-center I sat. Still, that was a while ago, and I don't doubt modern TN panels are better, but I can't quite believe that I wouldn't notice it at all on a 27" or larger monitor from normal (about an arm's length) viewing distances). That just seems utopian. There's only so much you can do to alleviate what is an inherent trait of TN technology, after all.


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## Komshija (Jul 12, 2019)

Not even close. Even the best TN, VA or AMVA pannels are no match for an IPS or PLS considering color accuracy, clarity and view angles.


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## kapone32 (Jul 12, 2019)

If nothing else this thread proves that the monitor is the most subjective and controversial component for a computer. It does come down to one thing user experience. All of the panel types have their Pros and Cons. If you like nice colours and a super sharp display (especially at higher resolutions) IPS is great. If you want the best raw performance go TN (no TN panel can produce colours as accurately as a IPS). If you want a combination of both go VA (No other panel can produce blacks like VA). Depending on the brand, hardware and software the panel technologies can make up for or increase some of the caveats based on panel type. Having said the current holy grail for me (see what I said at the start) is a 240HZ 32" 4K 10 Bit 1000 NIT HDR IPS panel. I don't think anyone would have any complaints. Unfortunately there is no GPU available that can push that monitor to that limit.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 12, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> If nothing else this thread proves that the monitor is the most subjective and controversial component for a computer. It does come down to one thing user experience. All of the panel types have their Pros and Cons. If you like nice colours and a super sharp display (especially at higher resolutions) IPS is great. If you want the best raw performance go TN (no TN panel can produce colours as accurately as a IPS). If you want a combination of both go VA (No other panel can produce blacks like VA). Depending on the brand, hardware and software the panel technologies can make up for or increase some of the caveats based on panel type. Having said the current holy grail for me (see what I said at the start) is a 240HZ 32" 4K 10 Bit 1000 NIT HDR IPS panel. I don't think anyone would have any complaints. Unfortunately there is no GPU available that can push that monitor to that limit.



That 'raw performance'... how is that raw exactly? A few ms less input lag? Bit of a strange term to elevate something that is hardly necessary for 99% of users to something more. This is my problem with the TN marketing as well. Cheap ass junk with silver lining gets promoted to a great product... let's just call it what it is and put those inflated prices of TN gaming monitors in perspective.

Much better than misplaced cheer stories about a tech that should be gone yesterday.


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## kapone32 (Jul 12, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> That 'raw performance'... how is that raw exactly? A few ms less input lag? Bit of a strange term to elevate something that is hardly necessary for 99% of users to something more. This is my problem with the TN marketing as well. Cheap ass junk with silver lining gets promoted to a great product... let's just call it what it is and put those inflated prices of TN gaming monitors in perspective.
> 
> Much better than misplaced cheer stories about a tech that should be gone yesterday.



This thread is about gaming, there are no (affordable) IPS panels that can combine the lag and refresh rate of TN. Are those not the most important things for a monitors performance in gaming. If you ever gamed on a 240Hz panel you would not call it "cheap ass junk" just saying.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 12, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> This thread is about gaming, there are no (affordable) IPS panels that can combine the lag and refresh rate of TN. Are those not the most important things for a monitors performance in gaming. If you ever gamed on a 240Hz panel you would not call it "cheap ass junk" just saying.



The moment IPS panels of 4ms were available (looong time ago), TN was hardly relevant for gaming, but lots of marketing and Esports hype made it so. The only real, tangible aspect of TN that is a perk is its PRICE. Not the perceived improved G2G or input lag because those barely deviate from any decent IPS or VA that is optimzied for gaming. And all display types can deploy other techniques to improve that regardless, such as overdrive. 240hz is even further into the territory of diminishing returns and barely has a purpose.

Sorry, but I'm allergic to people stepping into a placebo and calling it a new reality and a working medicine. TN's added speed is only relevant to those that are already gaming at a _very high level._ Not just a few games of PUBG and CS GO. But an actual, semi-pro or pro level. Below that you just have to git gud and no amount of TN is going to help you. That's the placebo part.

Price is the reason to get TN. And if you buy a mildly expensive TN, it better have LOTS of added features (LIghtboost, Gsync, FreeSync etc.) or its a total waste of time and money.


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## bug (Jul 12, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> That applies to old TN panels. The newer models just don't do that.


I haven't gone into a store to look at TN Film monitors in a while, but I'm looking right now at a fairly recent HP Elitebook that strongly disagrees with that.


Komshija said:


> Not even close. Even the best TN, VA or AMVA pannels are no match for an IPS or PLS considering color accuracy,


Here you go: https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_27gk750f.htm#calibration
A TN Film panel calibrated well below the level of inaccuracy that can be noticed with the naked eye (delta E ~3).


Komshija said:


> clarity


No idea how you asses that.


Komshija said:


> and view angles.


This one is most likely still true.


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## kapone32 (Jul 12, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> The moment IPS panels of 4ms were available (looong time ago), TN was hardly relevant for gaming, but lots of marketing and Esports hype made it so. The only real, tangible aspect of TN that is a perk is its PRICE. Not the perceived improved G2G or input lag because those barely deviate from any decent IPS or VA that is optimzied for gaming. And all display types can deploy other techniques to improve that regardless, such as overdrive. 240hz is even further into the territory of diminishing returns and barely has a purpose.
> 
> Sorry, but I'm allergic to people stepping into a placebo and calling it a new reality and a working medicine. TN's added speed is only relevant to those that are already gaming at a _very high level._ Not just a few games of PUBG and CS GO. But an actual, semi-pro or pro level. Below that you just have to git gud and no amount of TN is going to help you. That's the placebo part.
> 
> Price is the reason to get TN. And if you buy a mildly expensive TN, it better have LOTS of added features (LIghtboost, Gsync, FreeSync etc.) or its a total waste of time and money.



I am not disagreeing with you, in my opinion IPS is the only way to go. However that is just me and as much as you think 240Hz is reserved for professional gamers and over hyped the fact of the matter is it exists and does give a tangible benefit. I am willing to bet that there are users on this very platform that have a 970,1070, 1080, 2060, 2070, Vega 56,64 or new Navi card that they are using with a high refresh rate 1080P TN panel.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 12, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> I am not disagreeing with you, in my opinion IPS is the only way to go. However that is just me and as much as you think 240Hz is reserved for professional gamers and over hyped the fact of the matter is it exists and does give a tangible benefit. I am willing to bet that there are users on this very platform that have a 970,1070, 1080, 2060, 2070, Vega 56,64 or new Navi card that they are using with a high refresh rate 1080P TN panel.



I would add some salt with tangible benefit. People saying it does, does not make it a given. People say a lot, especially if they just invested money in a new purchase. It happens a few years later when the hype has worn off that they buy something better and conclude it wasn't all that great after all.

Been there done that mate, this is as old as technology itself. And I believe that is why these topics exist. To separate fact and nonsense, but also to put things in perspective. 240hz, once again, is heavily in diminishing returns territory and there is barely any content that can keep that sort of FPS, the end result being a worse experience than having a 120fps/hz locked on the same title. Its just that simple, and once you've seen it, you know it.



bug said:


> I haven't gone into a store to look at TN Film monitors in a while, but I'm looking right now at a fairly recent HP Elitebook that strongly disagrees with that.



Curious if its the same one I'm in front of... this one carries IPS though  I recently passed on a TN version of it... because TN. Major contrast shift when you put the panel more flat and look into it from 'below'. Which happens.


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## londiste (Jul 12, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> This is what I want.. people keep saying "viewing angles" and "professional editing", like really guys all I want is a screen that 99% of the times I will be setting dead center and mostly gaming, smh


Viewing angle is a thing. Will you be sitting dead center? Lean back in your chair so you'll look at a slight upwards angle and TN will show its colors. Same with width, 24" is fine, at 27-28" the colors will start showing up. There is a reason nothing larger than that is TN. Laptops and TN's... omfg.

When it comes to color reproduction that is a trickier subject. Technically all panel types can have proper color reproduction. However, there are some caveats:
- TN-s are generally 6-bit. There are 8-bit panels but these are rare (and comparatively expensive). 262K colors vs 16.7M colors and while these 6-bit panels show 8-bit image the missing colours are made with dithering. Being 6-bit makes panel cheaper to manufacture and easier to drive (this includes speed). 8-bit TN panels are still TN, just colors are 8-bit.
- Viewing angles. TN at an angle (especially vertical) will inevitably be crap. VA at (usually large horizontal) angle has color shift - better than TN but worse than IPS. IPS is not perfect either. IPS Glow is a thing. There are ways around it that usually involve quality which in turn means price. There are some TN panels that have slightly better viewing angles but not by much. VA color shift can be minimized but some of it is still there. IPS Glow can be almost completely eradicated but it is a plague on cheap and fast IPS panels.
- Quality varies. By a lot. Quality includes backlight, backlight bleed, panel uniformity, color accuracy and so on. This is independent of the panel type.


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## Komshija (Jul 12, 2019)

bug said:


> No idea how you asses that.



There are a plenty comparisons, even direct visual comparisons on YT. If you take a walk to some larger computer store, you could directly compare them. Simply put, color accuracy is much better on IPS and PLS and on average they have better response times which results in better clarity or more pleasant image output.


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## londiste (Jul 12, 2019)

Response times: TN > IPS > VA
Colors/Angles: IPS > VA > TN
Contrast: VA > IPS/TN

IPS/PLS/AHVA are same thing.


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## bug (Jul 12, 2019)

Komshija said:


> There are a plenty comparisons, even direct visual comparisons on YT. If you take a walk to some larger computer store, you could directly compare them. Simply put, color accuracy is much better on IPS and PLS and on average they have better response times which results in better clarity or more pleasant image output.


Wow. This is so wrong I don't know where to begin.
I'll try to come back to you after work.



Vayra86 said:


> Curious if its the same one I'm in front of... this one carries IPS though  I recently passed on a TN version of it... because TN. Major contrast shift when you put the panel more flat and look into it from 'below'. Which happens.


840 G3. Contrast changes when you change the viewing angle 10cm (in any direction).


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## Dristun (Jul 12, 2019)

A bit off-topic but I'm always having a laugh at the _"TN for gaming!" _thing.
That difference between 5ms IPS and 2ms TN? I'm sorry, that's not gonna help you even a bit in CSGO. And it wouldn't even help you in games that are actually fast, like QC, Q3, Unreal Tournament etc. Combined with input lag and hit-detection inaccuracies due to ping, that becomes completely negligible.
The main advantage is that you can get high refresh rates cheaper with TN, that's it. If you have cash to throw - just buy an IPS screen and forget it.


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## bug (Jul 12, 2019)

Dristun said:


> A bit off-topic but I'm always having a laugh at the _"TN for gaming!" _thing.
> That difference between 5ms IPS and 2ms TN? I'm sorry, that's not gonna help you even a bit in CSGO. And it wouldn't even help you in games that are actually fast, like QC, Q3, Unreal Tournament etc. Combined with input lag and hit-detection inaccuracies due to ping, that becomes completely negligible.
> The main advantage is that you can get high refresh rates cheaper with TN, that's it. If you have cash to throw - just buy an IPS screen and forget it.


Not to mention a human being has a response/reaction time of ~250ms to begin with.
Sure, the sooner you can react the better, but <5ms? The only reason to go that low is because the response time is given in such a way to make the monitor look as good as possible, despite some (many?) transition not being that fast. I doubt anyone ever lost a match because of ghosting, but if ghosting is pregnant, it will become tiresome.


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## dirtyferret (Jul 12, 2019)

bug said:


> I doubt anyone ever lost a match because of ghosting, but if ghosting is pregnant, it will become tiresome.



Oh man I remember when my wife was pregnant with our kids and how tired she was, I couldn't imagine if it was a ghost!


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## londiste (Jul 12, 2019)

It is not about the reaction time in games. Human reaction time as well as input lag dwarf the panel response time.

Panel response time It is about a clear and artefact-free image. There is a limited time for each frame to be displayed properly and all pixels need to be at their right state as soon as possible. These timeframes are small for high-refresh-rate monitors. 60Hz has 16ms for each frame, 120Hz has 8ms, 144Hz has 7ms, 165Hz has 6ms, 240Hz has 4ms.

Now, manufacturers claim for example 1ms G2G or 4ms G2G, often even omitting that G2G or using some other spec. This does not necessarily mean the panel does switch that fast. In addition to that not all pixel transistions are equal - some take longer time than others. Examples? How about PG278Q (IPS) and PG279Q (AHVA, basically IPS) test results from TFTCentral. These monitors are some of the best when it comes to response times.
https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asus_rog_swift_pg278q.htm#detailed_response - 2.9 ms average, 4.4 ms max
https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asus_rog_swift_pg279q.htm#detailed_response - 5.0 ms average, 6.4 ms max 

When pixel transitions take longer than expected or some of them take longer than expected, it results in artefacts. Ghosting, smearing and various others.


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## metalfiber (Jul 13, 2019)

I went from TN to VA and i could not believe how much better the color was on the VA. The blacks are blacker, no ghosting...I'll never go back to TN unless flat out broke or something. Still my best upgrade in the vision department is a pair of glasses.


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