# Bitcoins!



## pantherx12 (Feb 17, 2011)

Welcome to the Bitcoin discussion thread.

Please us this thread to discuss the bitcoin software, it's optimisations and the most effciant hardware combinations.

Feel free to post up what bit-coin per day etc your making.

Due to forum rules we cannot discuss publically where to trade in the coins.


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## matteumayo (Feb 17, 2011)

Just saw this in the FAQ:

"Your average coin creation rate will be (6 * 50 coins / hour) * (your CPU speed / the total CPU speed in the Bitcoin network)"


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## Arctucas (Feb 17, 2011)

As I understand it bitcoins are;

1) Money that really is not money.

2) Something that costs more to produce than is 'valued' at.

It sounds like something the US Government came up with.


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## W1zzard (Feb 17, 2011)

i looked at this for about 30 seconds and it seems to be a get rich quick scheme for the people running it. 

how many *US DOLLARS* have you been *paid* doing anything with it ? and how much did you pay to generate that income?


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## matteumayo (Feb 17, 2011)

W1zzard said:


> i looked at this for about 30 seconds and it seems to be a get rich quick scheme for the people running it.
> 
> how many *US DOLLARS* have you been *paid* doing anything with it ? and how much did you pay to generate that income?



I'm not sure there's anyone in this forum that has successfully been paid using bitcoins, myself included.

EDIT:  I don't mean to seem like I'm saying the idea of bitcoin exchange doesn't work, I'm pretty unsure, but I don't want to flat out say no, especially since most of us just learned about it.


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## n-ster (Feb 17, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> I'm not sure there's anyone in this forum that has successfully been paid using bitcoins, myself included.



because this is new to us


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 17, 2011)

W1zzard said:


> i looked at this for about 30 seconds and it seems to be a get rich quick scheme for the people running it.
> 
> how many *US DOLLARS* have you been *paid* doing anything with it ? and how much did you pay to generate that income?



ugh, w1zzard, you don't even know. if you havnt, read through this thread which is pretty enlightening. the comput4cash rep even made an account to answer questions.


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## pantherx12 (Feb 17, 2011)

W1zzard said:


> i looked at this for about 30 seconds and it seems to be a get rich quick scheme for the people running it.
> 
> how many *US DOLLARS* have you been *paid* doing anything with it ? and how much did you pay to generate that income?



Well with my rig, assuming a constant 250Mhash/s That's 1200 dollars every 6 months.

it will cost me about 400-500 dollars in electricy.

Other than that the cost is nothing as I already have equipment.



Only hiccup is there is only 21million bitcoins total in existance.



Arctucas said:


> As I understand it bitcoins are;
> 
> 1) Money that really is not money.
> 
> ...




You earn a profit with it assuming you do it smartly.

Also that's what ALL money is.


Wiz the premise behind this thing is that normal people are doing the exact same thing banks are doing.

Making money that doesn't exist. If they can do it so can we, just needs people to support it.

For example, items in wow, don't cost a thing right? no value at all. Yet people can sell them.

If something can get a value it becomes something WORTH something eh 


We're essentially getting money for work, it's just not us doing the work it's something we own.

Like leasing out a digger etc.


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## matteumayo (Feb 17, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Well with my rig, assuming a constant 250Mhash/s That's 1200 dollars every 6 months.
> 
> it will cost me about 400-500 dollars in electricy.
> 
> ...



How would you turn the bitcoins into actual dollars?

This is my main question, still have no idea.  If I need to I could ask this in a PM as to not upset Blue Rhino.


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## pantherx12 (Feb 17, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> How would you turn the bitcoins into actual dollars?
> 
> This is my main question, still have no idea.  If I need to I could ask this in a PM as to not upset Blue Rhino.



Since I can't answer directly 


All possible information you could need is here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page

Including some neat data about cards!

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_Hardware_Comparison


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## n-ster (Feb 17, 2011)

There are some exchange sites, you pay them bitcoins, they pay you $$


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## matteumayo (Feb 17, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Since I can't answer directly
> 
> 
> All possible information you could need is here https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page
> ...



Thanks for the link, but all I can find about conversion/exchange to USD is this page:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Currency_exchange

And there's only one USD exchange, is that what you're using? (bitcoinmarket.com)

EDIT: Also found this site

https://www.bitcoin2cc.com/

But... not sure if I trust it, and I'd rather just have it sent to my PayPal account instead of these VISA pre-paid card deals...


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 17, 2011)

ive gone through everyone of those currency exchange sites and they are all shady as hell. what's more, they are for buying bitcoins. there is one where you can sell bitcoins for cash but it is some weird site where you have to wait for somebody to put an offer in to buy them from you. honestly very shady.


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## pantherx12 (Feb 17, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Thanks for the link, but all I can find about conversion/exchange to USD is this page:
> 
> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Currency_exchange
> 
> ...



I would go for what ever one requires ONLY a paypal email address to be given.

That way, even their a scam not to much they can do eh? Either not give you money or do.

Rather than take


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## n-ster (Feb 17, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> I would go for what ever one requires ONLY a paypal email address to be given.
> 
> That way, even their a scam not to much they can do eh? Either not give you money or do.
> 
> Rather than take



they can steal your bitcoins....


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## pantherx12 (Feb 17, 2011)

n-ster said:


> they can steal your bitcoins....



Potentially, that's why you look them up first.

This is precisely why this thread needs to be here.

Legit places could be suggested here, scams can be reported.


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## n-ster (Feb 17, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Not if you are smart.



You gotta pay bitcoins to HOPE to get $$ delivered toyour paypal. It's not like they are going to pay 1st and receive bitcoins later

EDIT: ninja edited on me


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## matteumayo (Feb 17, 2011)

Well, it seems that the site I mentioned earlier is the way to go, doesn't seem too fishy I suppose, and not much they can do with just your bitcoin address and your paypal email.

Also, n-ster, they only get bitcoins if you confirm that you received payment FIRST.


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## n-ster (Feb 17, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Well, it seems that the site I mentioned earlier is the way to go, doesn't seem too fishy I suppose, and not much they can do with just your bitcoin address and your paypal email.
> 
> Also, n-ster, they only get bitcoins if you confirm that you received payment FIRST.



then cant you scam them? xD


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## pantherx12 (Feb 17, 2011)

Yeah i edited my post as I wasn't 100% sure, matteumayo confirmed it though, checking for myself now.

You can't scam them because if they don't recieve bitcoins you've commited theft.

You get in trouble.


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## matteumayo (Feb 17, 2011)

I wish there was a more steady, controlled version of this.

That would be as an alternative to having to have someone accept each of your offers...


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## pantherx12 (Feb 17, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> I wish there was a more steady, controlled version of this.
> 
> That would be as an alternative to having to have someone accept each of your offers...



That's what compute4cash is.

Only after it goes down to 10cents and per wu it's no longer a viable option in the UK.

Hell even 20 cents per wu only nets me 374 in 6 months of running the program.



Like I said in the compute4cash thead with 4 6870s I could potentially make 9600 usd a year. ( best case)


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## matteumayo (Feb 17, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> That's what compute4cash is.
> 
> Only after it goes down to 10cents and per wu it's no longer a viable option in the UK.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I just wish they didn't take such a huge cut of the money...

However it is stable, and pretty legit to my knowledge.

Back to hardware/tech:

Do you know if leaving the PC on nearly 24/7 for bitcoins or compute4cash would damage the GPU more quickly than usual use? 

Also, would it use the GPU to the effect that performance in games and such would suffer?


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## pantherx12 (Feb 17, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Do you know if leaving the PC on nearly 24/7 for bitcoins or compute4cash would damage the GPU more quickly than usual use?
> 
> Also, would it use the GPU to the effect that performance in games and such would suffer?



Yes it will degrade the GPU faster, but should still last a decent amount of time. 

Certainly the entire warranty period, and if not, it's in warranty! woo.


Also pause the client when running a game else you will get MASSIVE slow downs 

Unless it automatically can tell when gpu is being used by something else.


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## matteumayo (Feb 17, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Yes it will degrade the GPU faster, but should still last a decent amount of time.
> 
> Certainly the entire warranty period, and if not, it's in warranty! woo.
> 
> ...



One last question, how much faster do you think it will degrade the GPU?  I'm getting a new 5850 soon and I don't want to significantly reduce its life just for some extra cash.


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## pantherx12 (Feb 17, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> One last question, how much faster do you think it will degrade the GPU?  I'm getting a new 5850 soon and I don't want to significantly reduce its life just for some extra cash.



To be honest, it depends on the card you have.

I know folders that have run some cards for ages and ages and had no issues.
Others have problems after only a month.

But like I said, if it fails within waranty your covered.

And warrantys normally last a year. 

If things go well and bitcoins DON'T just die out ( only requires more people signing up and using them to not) you could make 2600 a year. - your electrical costs.

So if you card fails after warranty you can buy a new one with your profit anyway.


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## matteumayo (Feb 17, 2011)

So the "others that have problems after one month" were they using lower-end cards or something?


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## pantherx12 (Feb 17, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> So the "others that have problems after one month" were they using lower-end cards or something?




Mostly it would be down to bad luck, or an older componant.

Low end stuff should still be able to perform to it's specifications.

Sometimes it's due to overheating though, people don't normally run part of their systems for 100% all day, the ambient case temps could go up enough to increase temps of other parts of the card that normally are okay ( or parts of the motherboard)

Say mosfets for example, you could be running near the limit @ 100% load, but 100% load 24/7 may make case temps go up 5c and push things over the limit.


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## matteumayo (Feb 17, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Mostly it would be down to bad luck, or an older componant.
> 
> Low end stuff should still be able to perform to it's specifications.
> 
> ...



Ah, that makes sense.

I should probably be fine temperature-wise, the 5850 won't be going over 65-70 degrees.  It's also quite cold


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## Arctucas (Feb 18, 2011)

It is probably just my cynicism, and I am not saying it is the same thing, but...

This 'bitcoin' thing reminds me of WoW goldfarming.


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## Compute4Cash (Feb 18, 2011)

@pantherx12 - Make sure you understand how the difficulty factor affects your generation rate and how the difficulty factor changes over time.  This is a hugely important factor to include into your calculations.  Right now it may look like Compute4Cash takes a large cut of the profits, but that is because of the risk that difficulty factor introduces into a bitcoin mining operation.

Here is a good site to help you understand this difficulty phenomenon: http://www.taters.net/btcgc.php

Based on recent generation rates, the difficulty factor is going to increase by 40% in the next few days, and then there will be another large adjustment about two weeks after that.  I was a bit off before when I said it will double, but that is because this doubling will be split over the next two adjustments, not just the next one adjustment, due to the timing of the slashdot article.  This means that your generation rate will drop by 40% in the next couple of days, and will be less than half of what it is right now in a little more than two weeks.


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## pantherx12 (Feb 18, 2011)

Compute4Cash said:


> @pantherx12 - Make sure you understand how the difficulty factor affects your generation rate and how the difficulty factor changes over time.  This is a hugely important factor to include into your calculations.  Right now it may look like Compute4Cash takes a large cut of the profits, but that is because of the risk that difficulty factor introduces into a bitcoin mining operation.
> 
> Here is a good site to help you understand this difficulty phenomenon: http://www.taters.net/btcgc.php
> 
> Based on recent generation rates, the difficulty factor is going to increase by 40% in the next few days, and then there will be another large adjustment about two weeks after that.  I was a bit off before when I said it will double, but that is because this doubling will be split over the next two adjustments, not just the next one adjustment, due to the timing of the slashdot article.  This means that your generation rate will drop by 40% in the next couple of days, and will be less than half of what it is right now in a little more than two weeks.




40% loss is still more than you pay out dude 

Especially after you go down to 10c again : ]


I've done plenty of math by the way, yes the stuff I've stated here is based on best case.

But you have to bare in mind, you not taking into account supply and demand.

Whilst the difficult rate is going up, I bet slowly but surely the value of a bitcoin will go up too.

After all, that's how ecomys work. ( if it doesn't fail of course, it's a risk, but a calculated one, just like your one eh?)


Excuse my spelling, 5 am in the morning and dyslexic do not a good combination make.




You have to bare in mind we know your using bitcoins now so if it's good enough for you why not others?

Hell I don't even need to subsidise, I can get gpus for very cheap and have already worked out what ones I get best bang for buck for.
( sorry if I came accross rude their, tired and cranky)


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## Compute4Cash (Feb 18, 2011)

As Easy Rhino pointed out in the other thread, there is a good deal of risk involved in all of this.  If you can handle it, and you are willing to play the game, then yes, you should be able to do what we do.  Compute4Cash is intended for people who don't know about Bitcoin, people who don't want to know about all these details, and for those who just don't want to spend their time playing this game or expose themselves to any real risk of losing money.

Please do give it some more thought though before you buy hardware solely for bitcoin mining to make sure you really understand all the figures and the risks.  Even at $0.15/kWh there is a very real possibility that you will not be able to pay off your hardware purchase.  There really is a good reason that Compute4Cash takes a larger share than most other Bitcoin pools, and it is not greed - it is to offset this risk and provide a stable and easy to use service to our users.


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## pantherx12 (Feb 18, 2011)

Compute4Cash said:


> As Easy Rhino pointed out in the other thread, there is a good deal of risk involved in all of this.  If you can handle it, and you are willing to play the game, then yes, you should be able to do what we do.  Compute4Cash is intended for people who don't know about Bitcoin, people who don't want to know about all these details, and for those who just don't want to spend their time playing this game or expose themselves to any real risk of losing money.
> 
> Please do give it some more thought though before you buy hardware solely for bitcoin mining to make sure you really understand all the figures and the risks.  Even at $0.15/kWh there is a very real possibility that you will not be able to pay off your hardware purchase.  There really is a good reason that Compute4Cash takes a larger share than most other Bitcoin pools, and it is not greed - it is to offset this risk and provide a stable service to our users.




Aye I won't be investing in additional hardware ( cept what I already wanted anyway) unless I start making some decent amount of coinage per day 

Also, even with your system I could make £100 profit in each 6 month period. ( this is at 10c per wu)

If you didn't have a 600usd cap I would probably stick with your program for convience sake. 

As I could just invest in another few 6870s. say 2 of them?

And make that money in 2 months instead, means after 2.5 months I could buy another.

And so on, every now and then  buying a gpu  until me yearly rate is actually decent.


But there is a cap so noy joy : [


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## Compute4Cash (Feb 18, 2011)

Right, there is a $600 limit.  We cannot pay more than $600 to any one Compute4Cash account or any deposit account in a year.  If someone is really serious and is going to far exceed that figure with their Compute4Cash account or their deposit account then we will be willing to work with them to fill out the appropriate tax documents.


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 18, 2011)

Compute4Cash said:


> Right, there is a $600 limit.  We cannot pay more than $600 to any one Compute4Cash account or any deposit account in a year.  If someone is really serious and is going to far exceed that figure with their Compute4Cash account or their deposit account then we will be willing to work with them to fill out the appropriate tax documents.



tax documents? do you treat each person as contracted? how does that work with different laws per country?


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## Compute4Cash (Feb 18, 2011)

For US users, if we were to pay one account more than $600 in a year then we would have to issue a W9 to collect the user's info so that we can issue a 1099-MISC at the end of the year, and then the user would have to file that 1099 with their taxes.  

For international users, $600 is still the threshold, but we may have to use different forms to report the income.  If we pay less than $600 to an international account then we do not have to issue any paperwork.  

In every case, especially internationally, it is the user's responsibility to ensure they report the income to their government properly - international users will have to consult their tax laws to find out what is required in their country.

Compute4Cash has determined that it would be best to just avoid all this paperwork by not allowing any one account to receive more than $600 a year.  We can make exceptions if it is worth the administrative overhead of all this tax law.


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## Easy Rhino (Feb 18, 2011)

Compute4Cash said:


> For US users, if we were to pay one account more than $600 in a year then we would have to issue a W9 to collect the user's info so that we can issue a 1099-MISC at the end of the year, and then the user would have to file that 1099 with their taxes.
> 
> For international users, $600 is still the threshold, but we may have to use different forms to report the income.  If we pay less than $600 to an international account then we do not have to issue any paperwork.
> 
> ...



i cannot blame you there. the tax documents would be way to much hassle and make the whole thing pointless. i am glad i know though why you chose $600 limit though. it makes more sense now.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 18, 2011)

Compute4Cash said:


> For US users, if we were to pay one account more than $600 in a year then we would have to issue a W9 to collect the user's info so that we can issue a 1099-MISC at the end of the year, and then the user would have to file that 1099 with their taxes.
> 
> For international users, $600 is still the threshold, but we may have to use different forms to report the income.  If we pay less than $600 to an international account then we do not have to issue any paperwork.
> 
> ...



Is there anyway you could wire the funds to Nigeria?


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## Compute4Cash (Feb 18, 2011)

LOL!  You're funny...

Sorry, but Compute4Cash is a legitimate US business and we will not engage in any sort of tax evasion.  It just doesn't make sense to do so, there are better ways of handling these things.

If you're asking if we can do wire transfers in general, the answer is 'not right now'.  If there is a demand for them we may look into it in the future.


Alright, well we're pretty far off from the original topic, so let's put an end to this thread-jacking   You can always email  _s u_p+p__o_ r _t_@_ compute4cash.com with any questions you have and we'll answer them as soon as we can.


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## AphexDreamer (Feb 18, 2011)

@PantherX
I just started doing Bitcoin as well.

With a 5870 doing 305 M Hashes/s would it be better to go solo or join a Pool?

I have currently joined a pool but still considering going solo. 

Are you going to join a pool?


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## pantherx12 (Feb 18, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> @PantherX
> I just started doing Bitcoin as well.
> 
> With a 5870 doing 305 M Hashes/s would it be better to go solo or join a Pool?
> ...



Ahh got the gpu client set up nicely did you?

Doesn't work for me  rpcuserpass supposdely isn't set up although it is.

And I'm thinking of going solo.

Although at only a %2 hit with some of the pools why not.

I'm still in two minds about what is best myself actually


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## AphexDreamer (Feb 18, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Ahh got the gpu client set up nicely did you?
> 
> Doesn't work for me  rpcuserpass supposdely isn't set up although it is.
> 
> ...



Interesting, did you make your own batch? Also I thought the GPU client was for the pool only. Thus you must make an account with the pool and have your User and Pass match not only BitCoin but your account with the pool as well.

Idk I could have it all wrong but its working for me


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## pantherx12 (Feb 18, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Interesting, did you make your own batch? Also I thought the GPU client was for the pool only. Thus you must make an account with the pool and have your User and Pass match not only BitCoin but your account with the pool as well.
> 
> Idk I could have it all wrong but its working for me



I don't think it is, it would surely state clearly if that was the case.

Not seen anywhere that says a pool is required.

You are using python OpenCL bitcoin miner right?


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## AphexDreamer (Feb 18, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> I don't think it is, it would surely state clearly if that was the case.
> 
> Not seen anywhere that says a pool is required.
> 
> You are using python OpenCL bitcoin miner right?



m0mchil's GPU miner


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## pantherx12 (Feb 18, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> m0mchil's GPU miner



Aye same one I'm trying.


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## AphexDreamer (Feb 18, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Aye same one I'm trying.



I just don't know if the Pool or solo is the way to go and its bugging me 

You can use this Bitcoin Generation Calculator to find out the probability you have of generating a block. 

I could make 50 with in about 5 days, I just don't know how to calculate the pool yet. Someone on the site said the pool i'm in gives about 12 BTC a day. So, if true it would be roughly the same :/


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## pantherx12 (Feb 18, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> I just don't know if the Pool or solo is the way to go and its bugging me
> 
> You can use this Bitcoin Generation Calculator to find out the probability you have of generating a block.
> 
> I could make 50 with in about 5 days, I just don't know how to calculate the pool yet. Someone on the site said the pool i'm in gives about 12 BTC a day. So, if true it would be roughly the same :/



Takes me 6 days to do the same. ( if I can get gpu client working grr)

I'm thinking those with high end cards, like us ( although mines technically marketed as gamer rather than high end)  can probably stick to solo tbh.

Have you tried running without the pool set up to see if a pool is required for gpu client.

As that's the only thing I have different from you really.


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## AphexDreamer (Feb 18, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Takes me 6 days to do the same. ( if I can get gpu client working grr)
> 
> I'm thinking those with high end cards, like us ( although mines technically marketed as gamer rather than high end)  can probably stick to solo tbh.
> 
> ...



Well since I started in this pool I'm going to see how much I make in 5 days with the pool and then probably go solo and see how long it takes. Luck also plays a roll so it might take longer with solo. With the pool you can get coins faster (If I understand how it works correctly).


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## yogurt_21 (Feb 18, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> I just don't know if the Pool or solo is the way to go and its bugging me
> 
> You can use this Bitcoin Generation Calculator to find out the probability you have of generating a block.
> 
> I could make 50 with in about 5 days, I just don't know how to calculate the pool yet. Someone on the site said the pool i'm in gives about 12 BTC a day. So, if true it would be roughly the same :/



so 5 days to make something that may be worth 50$? you could make 6 times that just using your word processor to make flyers for a business. 

there are plenty more profitible ways to use your rigs to make money trouble is a real job will always win out. (think benefits)


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## xbonez (Feb 18, 2011)

I don't bitcoin mine myself (as I fold, and will stick to that), but from what i've read, if I were to engage in mining, I would probably go the C4C way. It does sound like they take quite a large cut, but considering the huge risk that Bitcoin's won't ever take off and end up as worthless bits and bytes, having the guarantee of payment in USD is a lot better.

Of course, there is always the chance that bitcoins do eventually take off and you'll have an active exchange market, but I believe this is the less probable option of the two. Without any government backing, starting a new form of currency is a huge risk.


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## AphexDreamer (Feb 18, 2011)

yogurt_21 said:


> so 5 days to make something that may be worth 50$? you could make 6 times that just using your word processor to make flyers for a business.
> 
> there are plenty more profitible ways to use your rigs to make money trouble is a real job will always win out. (think benefits)



Sure and thats why I am going to be working as a Waiter at hotel starting Next week  But alas I am a college student and between work and studies it would be nice to have my PC work for my allowance (so to speak). 

I've got my CPU folding and my GPU making bitcoins, its more efficient at it then the GPU folding@home client anyways.


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## xbonez (Feb 18, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> its more efficient at it then the GPU folding@home client anyways.



I wouldn't agree with you on that. If your GPU can generate 10,000 USD in an year (assuming someday bitcoins have a market value of 1 USD) versus your GPU solves cancer 2 years down the line, can you really say bitcoin mining was a more efficient use of your GPU?


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## AphexDreamer (Feb 18, 2011)

xbonez said:


> I wouldn't agree with you on that. If your GPU can generate 10,000 USD in an year (assuming someday bitcoins have a market value of 1 USD) versus your GPU solves cancer 2 years down the line, can you really say bitcoin mining was a more efficient use of your GPU?



Well I have an ATI card and F@H would only use 80-90% of my GPU.

The Open CL used in Bitcoin uses 97-99% of my GPU. 

Thats what I'm talking about. I understand what your saying but along those lines Bitcoin is making more use of my GPU then F@H was.

Right now 1 bitcoin is = 1.040 USD


Got out of the pool. Going solo now


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## matteumayo (Feb 18, 2011)

Well I decided to go the Compute4Cash route and it all seems to be going fine.

Currently I only have a 5770 running it now, so I'm getting about 0.49 WU/hr, but (if my calculations are correct) it will take about 4.25 days until I pass the 50 WU mark, and by then I'll switch to a new 5850.

Using the 5850, I will achieve 20.4 work units every 24 hours, so I will be able to cash in every 3 days or so. This results in $4.08 a day, and 28.56 every week.

Sounds like a good deal to me for some extra cash! :]


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## AphexDreamer (Feb 19, 2011)

Keep us updated matteumayo with C4C.

I might end up switching myself. We can compare to see who makes more cash  

I think I generated 50 Bitcoins cause it says Generated (50.00 matures in 113 more block)

It just hasn't shown up yet. 

If so man I was lucky  I just switched to solo and in less than a day made 50  Hope thats what it means of course. Looking it up.


Edit: Just double clicking it says this. 

Status: 7 confirmations, broadcast through 29 nodes
Date: 2/18/2011 17:34
Source: Generated
Credit: (50.00 matures in 113 more blocks)
Net amount: 0.00
Generated coins must wait 120 blocks before they can be spent. When you generated this block, it was broadcast to the network to be added to the block chain. If it fails to get into the chain, it will change to "not accepted" and not be spendable. This may occasionally happen if another node generates a block within a few seconds of yours.


I did make 50 Bitcoins in less than a day  So it takes about a day for them to "Mature". That is waiting for 120block, but I'm on 113 so we shall see.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 19, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Keep us updated matteumayo with C4C.
> 
> I might end up switching myself. We can compare to see who makes more cash
> 
> ...



Nice job! (or luck) 

Yeah I have a little over one WU right now, after about 2 hours, and it has had a steady rate of .48-.50.

The site is actually pretty nice, and it seems pretty snappy with the 5 minute updates.

So my 5850 is going to arrive in the next couple of days, and I've seen the WU/hr for 5770 and 5870, but not 5850.

I'm guessing it will get somewhere between .70 to .80, however I'm not sure at all really.

Is there any way to find out what it will be? Or am I stuck waiting


----------



## AlienIsGOD (Feb 19, 2011)

All ur BitCoins are belong to us


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 19, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Nice job! (or luck)
> 
> Yeah I have a little over one WU right now, after about 2 hours, and it has had a steady rate of .48-.50.
> 
> ...



The guy posted this.  Compute4Cash: it's a trap or not?


Oh yeah no 5850... I'd say .7 or .8 sounds about right. If you overclock it maybe even higher.

You can try PMing him or asking from his site.


----------



## pantherx12 (Feb 19, 2011)

Still no luck with the GPU client for myself, I'm going to be miles behind by the time I'm done!


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 19, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Still no luck with the GPU client for myself, I'm going to be miles behind by the time I'm done!



I don't know whats going on but I generated another 50! 

I get my first in 9 more blocks and the second has 90 more blocks before I get it. 

once I get it I'll post a screen shot


----------



## pantherx12 (Feb 19, 2011)

Man your card does not do bad at all, what clocks you running at?


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 19, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Man your card does not do bad at all, what clocks you running at?



Thanks. 

950/1255 atm


----------



## Wyverex (Feb 20, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Thanks.
> 
> 950/1255 atm


Could you please do a test for me? Check is there a difference in your compute performance if you lower the memory clock.
For example, to 950/800

I believe that C4C rep said something along the lines that it's all about GPU clock, and not the memory clock, so it could save you some electricity, while not reducing your compute power.


----------



## DarkOCean (Feb 20, 2011)

@ AphexDreamer how do i join a pool and what pool currently im am runing solo for 3 days at 235mhash and nothing.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 20, 2011)

I would just like to say that with the money I generated I have bought me Crysis 2 off newegg for $50 

This Bitcoin is equivalent to legally pirating not only Digital but Material things now as well. Pirating in that the money used to buy it literally came out of thin air! 



DarkOCean said:


> @ AphexDreamer how do i join a pool and what pool currently im am runing solo for 3 days at 235mhash and nothing.



When you make a batch file for m0mchil's GPU miner for example add the --host http://mining.bitcoin.cz so you can work for the pool. 

Also in the batch and for Bitcoin you have to use the same user and pass (which you should already have done). 

Go to http://mining.bitcoin.cz/accounts/profile/ make an account there if you haven't and then add a worker with the login and pass you have set up in your batch and Bitcoin program. 

When you do that it adds a "Youraccount Name"."the user name you made for the worker" 

So my account at Mining.bitcoin is Aphex,the user name I gave in the batch is Dreamer so the final user name I'm using in Bitcoin and the batch file I made is Ahpex.Dreamer 

so your batch file will look something like this for m0mchil's GPU miner 


start /DC:\bitcoin\poclbm_py2exe_20110215 poclbm.exe --user=Aphex.Dreamer --pass=******* --device=0 --host=mining.bitcoin.cz

The key is that the login and pass is the same for everything. 

When you run bitcoin as bitcoin.exe -server and then run the batch that uses your GPU your GPU will start looking for coins in bitcoin for the pool. 

You can verify that its working cause when you look under workers under the account page at http://mining.bitcoin.cz, current shares and score should be going up. If its zero you haven't done something right. 


Hope this helps.




Wyverex said:


> Could you please do a test for me? Check is there a difference in your compute performance if you lower the memory clock.
> For example, to 950/800
> 
> I believe that C4C rep said something along the lines that it's all about GPU clock, and not the memory clock, so it could save you some electricity, while not reducing your compute power.


Lowering it back to the default had no negative impact. I think they were right, thanks.


----------



## huayra.agera (Feb 20, 2011)

@AphexDreamer
Hi! I'm new here and am very interested on how bitcoins work. I have already done backreading and the only thing that's keeping me from mining is the length of time it takes to generate a block. I have a Sapphire AMD 6850 and I OCed it to 1010Mhz Core and averaging 200Khps and upon checking the BitCoin Generation Calc, it will take me on ave 9 days to produce one, and that means 24/7 which seems to be impractical.

Registrations are currently closed on http://mining.bitcoin.cz, and I did google and can't find any other Mining Pool to join. Hope they open up soon.

Just a query, did you exchange your BitCoins to cash? or bought your Crysis 2 directly using BTC?


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 20, 2011)

huayra.agera said:


> @AphexDreamer
> Hi! I'm new here and am very interested on how bitcoins work. I have already done backreading and the only thing that's keeping me from mining is the length of time it takes to generate a block. I have a Sapphire AMD 6850 and I OCed it to 1010Mhz Core and averaging 200Khps and upon checking the BitCoin Generation Calc, it will take me on ave 9 days to produce one, and that means 24/7 which seems to be impractical.
> 
> Registrations are currently closed on http://mining.bitcoin.cz, and I did google and can't find any other Mining Pool to join. Hope they open up soon.
> ...



Edited since we can't talk about how to trade coins do to forum rules. 

I was really lucky and Generated two blocks total of 100 Bitcoins in Two days!

Its all luck man. Think of it as the lottery, whilst your PC is running your in the Lottery and the higher your hash the more of your there is playing in the lottery.


----------



## huayra.agera (Feb 20, 2011)

I hope I get lucky then. Care to post some updated screenshots. =)


----------



## pantherx12 (Feb 20, 2011)

Would someone be willing to send me a zip file with a set up solo set of paramaters?


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 20, 2011)

huayra.agera said:


> I hope I get lucky then. Care to post some updated screenshots. =)



It cost me 66.85 bitcoins to get $50 virtual visa. 









pantherx12 said:


> Would someone be willing to send me a zip file with a set up solo set of paramaters?



I'm not sure what you mean? For the GPU client?


----------



## pantherx12 (Feb 20, 2011)

Aye gpu client files and bitcoin files set up.

Just no pass and user set obviously, can do that bit myself.

Each time I get a step closer I get another error XD

Probably problem in my registratry/hardware problem.


----------



## huayra.agera (Feb 20, 2011)

@AphexDreamer, how did you get the bitcoin.exe -server to work? I always get an error and it doesn't run unless I use the other app bitcoind.exe to make the GPU work. When I use the GUI based, it only uses the CPU cycles which is like 2khps compared to GPU 200khps.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 20, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Aye gpu client files and bitcoin files set up.
> 
> Just no pass and user set obviously, can do that bit myself.
> 
> ...



When you installed Bitcoin did you install it or move it to C:\ ? 

I think you have to have it in a small file path like C:\Bitcion\Bitcon.exe .

So I have a batch like this to run bitcoin 

start /DC:\bitcoin\

then I just type in bitcoin.exe -server. 

Then for my GPU client I have. 

start /DC:\bitcoin\poclbm_py2exe_20110215 poclbm.exe --user=xxx --pass=***** --device=0



huayra.agera said:


> @AphexDreamer, how did you get the bitcoin.exe -server to work? I always get an error and it doesn't run unless I use the other app bitcoind.exe to make the GPU work. When I use the GUI based, it only uses the CPU cycles which is like 2khps compared to GPU 200khps.




To get it to work I did exactly what you see above. 

It didn't work for me so I just made a batch file that when executed would take me to the bitcoin file path and I always just type bitcon.exe -server and it launches. 

Since I have it running all the time its rare I have to even launch it. So typing it isn't a problem for me and it works.


----------



## pantherx12 (Feb 20, 2011)

I just installed it, I thought the short directory thing was for convience sake only.


Found another client that works ( or loads at-least) but it's not linked to bitcoin so gets 0kash with any piece of hardware.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 20, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> I just installed it, I thought the short directory thing was for convience sake only.
> 
> 
> Found another client that works ( or loads at-least) but it's not linked to bitcoin so gets 0kash with any piece of hardware.



Are you running bitcion with -server?


----------



## huayra.agera (Feb 20, 2011)

I see, I might have to double check my filenames, I think I'll make them all one word to reduce chances of errors. Keep us posted! I really hope the pool registration opens soon.


----------



## DarkOCean (Feb 20, 2011)

@AphexDreamer When did you register on bitcoin.cz? cuz they closed registration and  i cant find any other pool.


----------



## pantherx12 (Feb 20, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Are you running bitcion with -server?



I can't tells me to set up rpcpass= in the appdata directory.

I have


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 20, 2011)

DarkOCean said:


> @AphexDreamer When did you register on bitcoin.cz? cuz they closed registration and  i cant find any other pool.



I think it was the 17 of this month.

The will open up eventually just go solo till they do.


----------



## DarkOCean (Feb 20, 2011)

I went to their site on 18 feb and they were closed only bad luck follow me arrond.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 20, 2011)

DarkOCean said:


> I went to their site on 18 feb and they were closed only bad luck follow me arrond.



Pool isn't all that great. Its generally good for those who only have CPU but it can take just as long if not longer sometimes to earn what you could have earned solo.

Its almost the same thing but in a pool you to trust the pool leader to share the bitcoins honestly, solo you just trust yourself. 

going solo was the best thing I could have done. Once the difficulty rises I might consider joining the pool again.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 20, 2011)

Hey I don't know if anyone cares, but I think this might be helpful to someone having issues:

Compute4Cash is now offering Cashout in the form of BitCoins, so you get a guaranteed amount of bitcoins/hr instead of having to get "lucky."

I probably will still just be using PayPal, but Aphex, could you post the link to the VirtualVisa site?

Sorry for double posting, but I just realized something.

C4C has a $600 payout limit annually, but no limit to BitCoins.

However, there is that .10-.20 times whatever WU you have, so the amount of BitCoins I have is the same as the USD balance.

Just a little thing I noticed :]

EDIT: This may be a bad option however; it would take 250 WU during Feb. to get just one block of Bitcoins.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 20, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Hey I don't know if anyone cares, but I think this might be helpful to someone having issues:
> 
> Compute4Cash is now offering Cashout in the form of BitCoins, so you get a guaranteed amount of bitcoins/hr instead of having to get "lucky."
> 
> ...



Paying in bitcoins sounds like a bigger rip of if IMO. The only thing good C4C had going for it was the direct pay. I'd rather take my chances like I am right now, on my own. 

I'd post a link but not sure if I can since PantherX said no posting links to trading sites. 

Apparently we aren't aloud to even discuses where to trade the coins so I'm going to be editing some posts now.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 20, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Paying in bitcoins sounds like a bigger rip of if IMO. The only thing good C4C had going for it was the direct pay. I'd rather take my chances like I am right now, on my own.
> 
> I'd post a link but not sure if I can since PantherX said no posting links to trading sites.
> 
> Apparently we aren't aloud to even discuses where to trade the coins so I'm going to be editing some posts now.




Uh oh... well I'll edit my past posts (or delete them) if a mod says so, I don't want to get into any trouble after just joining the forum 


Also, as an update, I just installed the 5850 last night, and figuring it would be a bad idea to operate it at 100%, I set the throttle in C4C's program to 94%, and I'm getting about .8WU/hr, adding up to about $2.00 every 10-12 hours, or $4.00 every day.

This adds up to $28 a week, and 1133 a year, but will be halved of course after February.

Still, an extra $10 a week is welcome by me, especially if I get that $10 just by turning on the program when I stop using the PC.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 21, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Uh oh... well I'll edit my past posts (or delete them) if a mod says so, I don't want to get into any trouble after just joining the forum
> 
> 
> Also, as an update, I just installed the 5850 last night, and figuring it would be a bad idea to operate it at 100%, I set the throttle in C4C's program to 94%, and I'm getting about .8WU/hr, adding up to about $2.00 every 10-12 hours, or $4.00 every day.
> ...



I'd rather test my luck man then make them luckier. 

For the 28 you earned a week you could have made them 100 bitcions and depending on the exchange rate that could have been like $80 or if your lazy like me and want a more direct cash out (Virtual Visa) $50-100. 

Its all luck. But the more people join C4C the luckier they get and the more money they make. Its a really great idea... I'd say they have to maintain a certain amount of people (depending on difficulty level) to afford the payout. But let any C4C person correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 21, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> I'd rather test my luck man then make them luckier.
> 
> For the 28 you earned a week you could have made them 100 bitcions and depending on the exchange rate that could have been like $80 or if your lazy like me and want a more direct cash out (Virtual Visa) $50-100. .



See I don't understand how I could have made 100 bitcoins in a week.

First of all, I have no idea what the rate of generation my 5850 would have, and it sounds kind of tricky to sell them.

It might be worth a try, but I feel like I might be wasting my time.  Is there any way to see exactly how much time it would take to generate a block?

I would be fine with selling each block one at a time, but if it takes 2 weeks or something or it doesn't even work, I don't know if it would be worth it.

Aphex, could you maybe send me what you've done so far (with sites, etc) in a PM?  EDIT: PM sent.

Don't mean to be too pushy here, if it's too much work don't worry about it.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 21, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> See I don't understand how I could have made 100 bitcoins in a week.
> 
> First of all, I have no idea what the rate of generation my 5850 would have, and it sounds kind of tricky to sell them.
> 
> ...



Its all luck man, thats all C4C is doing to, luck. 

Think of it as a lottery. While bitcoin is generating your playing the lottery and the faster your Hardware the faster you play. 


With C4C they pay you to play for them. So its like I go around paying people a $00.10 to win a $50 lottery. 

To find out your rate of generation go here http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php

put in the hash number your GPU client shows you as it runs.


----------



## n-ster (Feb 21, 2011)

Can someone help me set a solo GPU mining thing? I can't get it to work


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 22, 2011)

I need some help...

Aphex, I used the guide you sent me and followed it very carefully, but when I try to launch the bat file to launch bitcoin.exe with -server it gives an error saying "could not connect to server."

Here is what I have in my .bat file:


start /DC:\bitcoin\bitcoin-0.3.20 bitcoin.exe -server )


What am I doing wrong?

I really need to be able to launch bitcoin.exe -server quickly, because I will be switching things on and off a lot.

Please help! :[

P.S: The reason I had to restart bitcoin.exe after generating all of the block chains is because the GPU miner said it couldn't connect to bitcoin.exe.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 22, 2011)

This is the most I've been able to get, I used bitcoind.exe but it has no GUI and it just says "bitcoin server starting"

however this at least lets the GPU miner start... help?


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 22, 2011)

I might have gotten it working o3o

How do you tell if it's running with -server?

EDIT: think I fixed it, it opened with the batch and the GUI miner client is working at about 220,000k/hash 

So now I just wait? ._.

EDIT2: Here's a pic:


----------



## cdawall (Feb 22, 2011)

man shoulda kept my 16 core server setup how did i miss this thread...


----------



## n-ster (Feb 22, 2011)

cdawall said:


> man shoulda kept my 16 core server setup how did i miss this thread...



CPU bitcoins suck


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 22, 2011)

If anyone wants to know what I did to fix it, I just got rid of the folder I made in C:\bitcoin called bitcoin_0.3.2.0 after moving it's contents (the bitcoin files) to the C:\bitcoin folder.

Then I went into the batch file and removed it from the chain, the directory in the batch looked like "start /DC:\bitcoin\bitcoin_0.3.20 bitcoin.exe -server )" before.

so it looks like this now:

start /DC:\bitcoin bitcoin.exe -server

Changes: Shortened directory, got rid of space and ) at the end of the line.


----------



## cdawall (Feb 22, 2011)

n-ster said:


> CPU bitcoins suck



man i dont even really know what they are lol


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 22, 2011)

n-ster said:


> CPU bitcoins suck



This is true, GPUs are hundreds of times more efficient.

A hexacore system could get maybe 10,000k/hash at best.

A 5970 system gets about 650,000k/hash  (I'm pretty sure).


----------



## huayra.agera (Feb 22, 2011)

@matteumayo - hi! How did you get the GUI to work? I had the same error that you have and I still can't get the settings -server to work. The error I get is the path or app -server could not be found when using the batch script. Kindly inform us how. Thanks!


----------



## huayra.agera (Feb 22, 2011)

@matteumayo - Thanks a lot! It worked now! It's gonna be a long week before we produce our bitcoins. =(


----------



## cdawall (Feb 22, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> This is true, GPUs are hundreds of times more efficient.
> 
> A hexacore system could get maybe 10,000k/hash at best.
> 
> A 5970 system gets about 650,000k/hash  (I'm pretty sure).



and opencl is required for GPU bitcoins correct so the oldestcard one could run is a 4xx0 series card?


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 22, 2011)

cdawall said:


> and opencl is required for GPU bitcoins correct so the oldestcard one could run is a 4xx0 series card?



Yes.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 22, 2011)

Just got off work. 

Thanks matteumayo. It would spew an error out with me too but I just manually typed in bitcoin.exe -sever 

I'm still fine with doing that, its not like its hard to remember or anything


----------



## cdawall (Feb 22, 2011)

what kind of hashrate will i be looking at running this config

AMD ax2 5200+ AM3 regor
Crosshair III
HD4350 1GB
9800GT ECO

running the gpu clients 1 per GPU or does it not work like f@h?


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 22, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Just got off work.
> 
> Thanks matteumayo. It would spew an error out with me too but I just manually typed in bitcoin.exe -sever
> 
> I'm still fine with doing that, its not like its hard to remember or anything



What is/was in your batch file?

If it matters I might be able to see if anything's out of the ordinary.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 22, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> What is/was in your batch file?
> 
> If it matters I might be able to see if anything's out of the ordinary.



This is it now 
start /DC:\bitcoin\

This was it before when it wouldn't work
start /DC:\bitcoin\bitcoin.exe -server 

I basically just type the last bit in myself. 
But I've had my computer running 3 days straight now. Hopefully within another 3 days I get another block.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 22, 2011)

cdawall said:


> what kind of hashrate will i be looking at running this config
> 
> AMD ax2 5200+ AM3 regor
> Crosshair III
> ...



I think you can run 2 clients at the same time, just specify the device number (0, and 1 probably) in your batch file for the GPU client.

Those would each get 6-7m/hash, for bitcoin-mining you might want to consider an upgrade/using a higher end card.

Refer to this page for further info:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison

EDIT: Also, if that's your only option right now, you could join a pool.  I don't know the exact URL but it's been posted in this thread I believe.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 22, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> This is it now
> start /DC:\bitcoin\
> 
> This was it before when it wouldn't work
> ...




Well what worked for me was this: (assuming we have the same setup)

start /DC:\bitcoin bitcoin.exe -server

That should save you a couple seconds, if you want to give it a try


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 22, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Well what worked for me was this: (assuming we have the same setup)
> 
> start /DC:\bitcoin bitcoin.exe -server
> 
> That should save you a couple seconds, if you want to give it a try



meh... I'm good, but thanks anyways.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 22, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> meh... I'm good, but thanks anyways.



No problem


----------



## cdawall (Feb 22, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> I think you can run 2 clients at the same time, just specify the device number (0, and 1 probably) in your batch file for the GPU client.
> 
> Those would each get 6-7m/hash, for bitcoin-mining you might want to consider an upgrade/using a higher end card.
> 
> ...



i have higher end cards was just curious how they would do sort of a try before you buy thing was planning on setting those up and if they were worth anything it will be on the CH3 and i can make 3 other single slot cards run off of the pci-e 4x slots 4650's or 5570's would work well


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 22, 2011)

cdawall said:


> i have higher end cards was just curious how they would do sort of a try before you buy thing was planning on setting those up and if they were worth anything it will be on the CH3 and i can make 3 other single slot cards run off of the pci-e 4x slots 4650's or 5570's would work well



Well the more you can get running per Bitcoin application the better your luck. 

So if you can get 4 GPU's running on the same PC that sounds pretty dam goood.


----------



## cdawall (Feb 22, 2011)

will post pics of the assembled rig shortly 

hows this work as far as core per client dual core cpu+ 2 gpus= 4 clients or just 2?


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 22, 2011)

cdawall said:


> will post pics of the assembled rig shortly
> 
> hows this work as far as core per client dual core cpu+ 2 gpus= 4 clients or just 2?



It all adds up as far as I'm aware. They have some Dual CPU+GPU Client guides out there but I'm just doing the GPU. 

So I know it can be done I'm just not sure how :/ You could just have the Bitcon application Generate from the CPU like it normally does but its not effecient. 

If you look for some Dual CPU GPU guides you can milk every  hash out of your hardware. 

I think this might be what your interested in. 

http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2444.0


----------



## n-ster (Feb 22, 2011)

My i7 920 @ 4GHZ gets 6 200 khash/s but consumes more in energy than bitcoins can reimburse


----------



## cdawall (Feb 22, 2011)

n-ster said:


> My i7 920 @ 4GHZ gets 6 200 khash/s but consumes more in energy than bitcoins can reimburse



My electricity is part of the lease ill fold everything lol


----------



## n-ster (Feb 22, 2011)

the CPU aging or something might not even get paid lol


----------



## cdawall (Feb 22, 2011)

ready to go


----------



## n-ster (Feb 22, 2011)

Aphex just helped me figure this out... seems ATI stream 2.3 wasnt working for me, went back to 2.2...

Now to get my PhysX card and main card to work would be great  for now only my PhysX card works


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 22, 2011)

Nice  

And free money is even nicer 

Best of luck with your Rig! Happy Bitcoin Hunting!


----------



## n-ster (Feb 22, 2011)

I uninstalled my NV drivers and now it doesn't work anymore >.>

EDIT: Rofl now I repair my ATI stream install and it works with my main card  is 229~230M for a 6870 OK? Anyone does any further adjustments?

249~250 @ 975 core


----------



## Wyverex (Feb 22, 2011)

n-ster said:


> I uninstalled my NV drivers and now it doesn't work anymore >.>
> 
> EDIT: Rofl now I repair my ATI stream install and it works with my main card  is 229~230M for a 6870 OK? Anyone does any further adjustments?
> 
> 249~250 @ 975 core


Up the core as much as you can while reducing memory clock as much as you can.

Also, it has been reported that Stream 2.2 gives better performance than Stream 2.3


----------



## n-ster (Feb 22, 2011)

What program can I use to underclock my memory? I'd like to try to do 1000 core and at most 800 mem


----------



## Wyverex (Feb 22, 2011)

You should be able to underclock memory via Catalyst's Overdrive.
2nd slider from the top


----------



## n-ster (Feb 22, 2011)

my minimum is 1050


----------



## Wyverex (Feb 22, 2011)

Lame Overdrive minimum limit :/
Did you try Afterburner?


----------



## n-ster (Feb 22, 2011)

Running 1000 core 785 memory (afterburner minimum) now, thanks


----------



## DarkOCean (Feb 22, 2011)

I made an ccc oc profile then edited the memory clock to stay the same as idle 960 core 300 mem .


----------



## n-ster (Feb 22, 2011)

DarkOCean said:


> I made an ccc oc profile then edited the memory clock to stay the same as idle 960 core 300 mem .



how do you do that? I just realized that the actually mem seed stays at 1050 anyways  so I'd loive to do 1000 core 300 idle


----------



## Wyverex (Feb 22, 2011)

n-ster said:


> how do you do that?


Something along these lines:

You make a profile in Catalyst and name it appropriately
You go to:
C:\Users\*your username*\AppData\Local\ATI\ACE\Profiles
Open the profile you just made in Notepad
You set the desired Memory clock under:
<Feature name="MemoryClockTarget_0">
(put the desired frequency in all 3 fields)
Save the file and load the profile


----------



## n-ster (Feb 22, 2011)

Wyverex said:


> Something along these lines:
> 
> You make a profile in Catalyst and name it appropriately



How do you do this?  thanks


----------



## Wyverex (Feb 22, 2011)

n-ster said:


> How do you do this?  thanks



Open Catalyst
In the left menu, click *Presets*
Click *Add Preset...*
Fill the required info, like Name of the profile, Tooltip info (optional, for convenience)... if you want, assign a (global) Hotkey for it, etc
Click Save, and that should be that


----------



## n-ster (Feb 22, 2011)

even after that it still runs at 1050


----------



## DarkOCean (Feb 22, 2011)

it should look like this <Feature name="MemoryClockTarget_0">
          <Property name="Want_0" value="30000" />
          <Property name="Want_1" value="30000" />
          <Property name="Want_2" value="30000" />
then click aply the created modified profile two times .


----------



## n-ster (Feb 22, 2011)

DarkOCean said:


> it should look like this <Feature name="MemoryClockTarget_0">
> <Property name="Want_0" value="30000" />
> <Property name="Want_1" value="30000" />
> <Property name="Want_2" value="30000" />
> then click aply the created modified profile two times .



still no-go


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 22, 2011)

So how do I know if it's working?

The bitcoin client itself is on Generating with the small CPU 5,000k/hash on the bottom left, and the GPU client displays the 220,000k/hash, but other then that nothing's changed in the last 12 hours...

I think I posted a pic of it, so is everything working correctly?  It just seems strange to me for NOTHING to show up, not even like a status or something.

EDIT: The pic is near the middle of Page 4.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 22, 2011)

I'm actually thinking of doing pooled mining now, since (supposedly) the difficulty of generation is going to be 40% more than it is now, in a couple of weeks.

So when is http://mining.bitcoin.cz/ going to open registration???

Also, what exactly do I have to do to make the GPU client and everything work with the pool?

EDIT:  Just saw this helpful explanation from Aphex:




AphexDreamer said:


> I would just like to say that with the money I generated I have bought me Crysis 2 off newegg for $50
> 
> This Bitcoin is equivalent to legally pirating not only Digital but Material things now as well. Pirating in that the money used to buy it literally came out of thin air!
> 
> ...


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 23, 2011)

WOOT!

I just checked my client today and it generated a block!!!   

It says 95 confirmations remaining, so I guess it'll take a while before I can use the coins but still, pretty amazing!

Just wondering if I should try to trade it on Mt Gox or hope for another block so I can get the 70 or so BTC required for that $50 Virtual Visa card... hrmmm


----------



## n-ster (Feb 23, 2011)

is it normal that after my 1st block was generated, the confirmation number keeps on going up? im at 306 confirmations >.>


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 23, 2011)

n-ster said:


> is it normal that after my 1st block was generated, the confirmation number keeps on going up? im at 306 confirmations >.>



Doesn't it stop at 120 confirmations?  I'm pretty sure that's all it needs before it's confirmed.

Maybe it's a glitch?  You could try restarting your client maybe.


----------



## n-ster (Feb 23, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Doesn't it stop at 120 confirmations?  I'm pretty sure that's all it needs before it's confirmed.
> 
> Maybe it's a glitch?  You could try restarting your client maybe.



still continues.. at 307 now


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 23, 2011)

n-ster said:


> still continues.. at 307 now



Hmm... when you double click on it, what does it say?

I also suggest looking through/searching the bitcoin forums themselves for the issue, and if it lasts a REALLY long time, you could always contact the bitcoin staff.


----------



## n-ster (Feb 23, 2011)




----------



## matteumayo (Feb 23, 2011)

n-ster said:


> http://img.techpowerup.org/110223/Capture038835.jpg



Does your balance still say 0.00?

Maybe it's confirmed and you didn't notice?


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 24, 2011)

Hey Aphex, do you know if you can move the funds of a Virtual Visa card to a bank account?

If I end up getting a few of them, I'd rather have the funds in one place instead of a bunch of separate balances.


----------



## n-ster (Feb 24, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Does your balance still say 0.00?
> 
> Maybe it's confirmed and you didn't notice?



nono my balance is 50, but I just am wondering why the confirmations just keep going up


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 24, 2011)

n-ster said:


> nono my balance is 50, but I just am wondering why the confirmations just keep going up



Oh!

I thought you weren't getting the money at all. 

Well it shouldn't really be an issue... I wouldn't see it as a problem, as long as it was confirmed at 120.

While it's confirming the blocks, it doesn't use any (maybe a VERY little) amount of your hash rate, so it should still be able to get future blocks fine.

If you do however run into some problems other then the number rising, I suggest contacting support, they probably know the most about the issue.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 24, 2011)

He did get the Bitcoins it always goes up. Each Block is part of a chain, as that chain goes up it goes back to your block and confirms it. 

At least thats my very vague understanding of that. 



matteumayo said:


> Hey Aphex, do you know if you can move the funds of a Virtual Visa card to a bank account?
> 
> If I end up getting a few of them, I'd rather have the funds in one place instead of a bunch of separate balances.



You can make a paypal and use the Gift card as a the Credit card. Then make another Paypal with your Bank info and send the money from the Gift Card Paypal to the Your Bank Account Paypal. 

Thats the best way I can think of atm. Maybe there is a better way but I don't know it. 


You could always try selling it.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 24, 2011)

It's too bad the ratio isn't 1:1 on that virtual visa site, means I have to get a second block before cashing anything in >_<


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 24, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> It's too bad the ratio isn't 1:1 on that virtual visa site, means I have to get a second block before cashing anything in >_<



Yeah but it changes with Bitcoin value. Like I said it used to be almost 1:1 but as soon as the bitcoin lost value it went up. 

Who knows. Maybe when you get your second block it will be more 1:1 or less


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 24, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Yeah but it changes with Bitcoin value. Like I said it used to be almost 1:1 but as soon as the bitcoin lost value it went up.
> 
> Who knows. Maybe when you get your second block it will be more 1:1 or less



I just hope I get that second block before the upcoming 40% difficulty increase, and if I don't, I hope at least that that pool site's registration opens soon.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 24, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> I just hope I get that second block before the upcoming 40% difficulty increase, and if I don't, I hope at least that that pool site's registration opens soon.



Yeah I know what you mean. I got lucky and got my first 2 blocks rather quickly but been dry since. 

What I don't get is if I stop for whatever reason even for a lil bit does that ruin the constancy needed to maintain that 5 day average?

Like if I have had it on for 3 days and then stop  for just a brief second and run it again is it like starting from day one again?

I guess since its all luck based it shouldn't matter it just confuses me for some reason.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 24, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Yeah I know what you mean. I got lucky and got my first 2 blocks rather quickly but been dry since.
> 
> What I don't get is if I stop for whatever reason even for a lil bit does that ruin the constancy needed to maintain that 5 day average?
> 
> ...



That shouldn't happen, I came upon that question on another forum, and this was the answer:

When you generate bitcoins, and attempt to solve for blocks, your PC does this by sending as many possible solutions as it can, so if you turn off the generator and turn it back on, you won't lose any progress, it just throws lots and lots of possible solutions at it. You may get lucky and find one and thus generate a block, but there is nothing that needs to be resumed if you stop coin generation.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 24, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> That shouldn't happen, I came upon that question on another forum, and this was the answer:
> 
> When you generate bitcoins, and attempt to solve for blocks, your PC does this by sending as many possible solutions as it can, so if you turn off the generator and turn it back on, you won't lose any progress, it just throws lots and lots of possible solutions at it. You may get lucky and find one and thus generate a block, but there is nothing that needs to be resumed if you stop coin generation.



Ahh excellent that clears up my confusion. Thanks.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 24, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Ahh excellent that clears up my confusion. Thanks.



No problem.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 24, 2011)

So it seems like everybody's been saying the difficulty's going up 40% some time soon.

Does anybody have any idea when exactly?  It would help me a lot to know, since the difficulty factor would be 51043.8417 (feel free to put that into the calculator).

This would change my average block generation time from 6-7days to 11 days :X


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 24, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> So it seems like everybody's been saying the difficulty's going up 40% some time soon.
> 
> Does anybody have any idea when exactly?  It would help me a lot to know, since the difficulty factor would be 51043.8417 (feel free to put that into the calculator).
> 
> This would change my average block generation time from 6-7days to 11 days :X



Well BGC keeps up to date.

So when its difficulty factor increase then its safe to say the difficulty factor has increased.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 24, 2011)

Mtgox's blog is stating that the value of a bitcoin may go up to 2$ soon, however if the market doesn't rise soon and value falls under $0.89 then it may follow the pattern and drop to $0.50-60.

On another subject, I have 50 BTC in my account and bitcoin2cc's prices for $50 dropped to 60BTC even... 

So here's my question:

Should I

a) Hope to get another block ahead of schedule again

or

b) Pause bitcoin for a day and run C4C, then cashout the $10 in bitcoin form (10 BTC)

Any advice?

EDIT: Prices just went back up over 60, bitcoin lottery it is!


----------



## n-ster (Feb 24, 2011)

I'd just hope for another bloc... else there is this thing where you get paid for every hash, but they take a 10% cut on average


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 25, 2011)

Small update here.

*Estimates are showing the bitcoin difficulty increase is going to happen Sunday night.
*
It being thursday, I'm gonna keep on hoping for another block, since I have about 5 days (since the last one).

If I do get that block, I'll join the pool right after (if it's up, it better be >:[ ) and go for that $100 v-visa card, since it's only a little over 100 BTC.

If I don't get a block, I'm going to switch to the pool anyway and go for the $50 card.

P.S: Doesn't it seem like C4C knew the near-50% difficulty increase was going to happen at the end of February?  What with their "promo period" ending and the profit decreasing 50%.  hmmm


----------



## Easy Rhino (Feb 25, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Small update here.
> 
> *Estimates are showing the bitcoin difficulty increase is going to happen Sunday night.
> *
> ...



does this mean it will be harder to make real money?


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Feb 25, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> does this mean it will be harder to make real money?



Yes.  Cause each person takes longer to make any bitcoins.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 25, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Yes.  Cause each person takes longer to make any bitcoins.



Unless your in a pool you tend to keep a steadier rate.


----------



## n-ster (Feb 25, 2011)

The estimates that I have read say a 35% increase max will happen


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 25, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Unless your in a pool you tend to keep a steadier rate.



Are you saying that going solo is steadier?  That's incorrect; you will see much steadier and frequent profits from a pool, than being on your own.

Sorry if I misread, just want to clarify


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 25, 2011)

n-ster said:


> The estimates that I have read say a 35% increase max will happen



Well that's good news


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 25, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Are you saying that going solo is steadier?  That's incorrect; you will see much steadier and frequent profits from a pool, than being on your own.
> 
> Sorry if I misread, just want to clarify



No that a pool is steadier. You miss read lol.


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Feb 25, 2011)

When someone actually gets paid, please tell me.  Also, post your electricity bill for that month along with it.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 25, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> When someone actually gets paid, please tell me.  Also, post your electricity bill for that month along with it.



I got paid in my first 3 days and posted about it a few pages back, In fact I bought Crysis 2 with the money made through bitcoin . And I don't have an electricity bill.


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Feb 25, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> It cost me 66.85 bitcoins to get $50 virtual visa.
> 
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/110220/Sweet.png
> ...



Oh well nice then.  Surprised they accept fake money.  Idiots.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 25, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Oh well nice then.  Surprised they accept fake money.  Idiots.



Well... they didn't take the bitcoins directly if thats what you mean.

I used the Bitcoins to buy a Visa Gift Card first and then activated it on Visa's site and used it to pre-purchase Crysis 2


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Feb 25, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Well... they didn't take the bitcoins directly if thats what you mean.
> 
> I used the Bitcoins to by a Visa Gift Card first and then activated it on Visa's site and used it to pre-purchase Crysis 2



Yeah I got the in between steps.  I know Newegg does not take bitcoins lol.  Glad to see there are still dumb people to exploit!  I would personally keep doing what you are doing Aphex, that way you can just pay for more and more cards off newegg so your rate of gaining bitcoins goes up exponentially until you become a millionaire.  Simple really.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 25, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Yeah I got the in between steps.  I know Newegg does not take bitcoins lol.  Glad to see there are still dumb people to exploit!  I would personally keep doing what you are doing Aphex, that way you can just pay for more and more cards off newegg so your rate of gaining bitcoins goes up exponentially until you become a millionaire.  Simple really.



And they said money didn't grow on trees... 

Well it doesn't but it can be generated virtually with some luck  

I'd say I'll reach the millionaire mark by the end of next month


----------



## huayra.agera (Feb 26, 2011)

How's the mining going? I just finished generating aroung $11.37 with Compute4Cash just to try how long they process Cashouts. I'm now mining for Bitcoins, solo. I OCed my Sapphire 6850 to 1010 Core 300 Memory Stock Volts. According to bitcoin calculator it'll take around more than 8 days on average to produce a block and I'm running at 218khps. How I hope to get lucky like you people here. =)


----------



## huayra.agera (Feb 26, 2011)

I just got paid from Compute4Cash in around less than 4 hours. I think Paypal deducted .69c off the 10$ I cashed out total I got is 9.31$.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 26, 2011)

huayra.agera said:


> I just got paid from Compute4Cash in around less than 4 hours. I think Paypal deducted .69c off the 10$ I cashed out total I got is 9.31$.



For how much time?


----------



## huayra.agera (Feb 26, 2011)

My WU/hr is .78. Doing some computation yielded me : 0.78*0.2$=0.156$/hr; 10$/0.156$ = 63.856Hours if I computed right. Do you think I have produced bitcoins that time? 220khps is the rate of my card.

Well I did not turn my computer on 24/7 more of 8hr a day.


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 26, 2011)

Last night I turned off my PC to give it a rest, because I noticed that the video output quality from the card was getting a little fuzzy, and after closing it sharpened up back to normal.

I might turn it back on tonight, not sure.

I'm thinking of waiting for slush's pool to open up, then run that for a while, and hopefully get to the ~60BTC needed for the $50 virtual visa.

I also have about $8.00 in C4C so I might run that over night and send it as bitcoins to my address :]


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 26, 2011)

huayra.agera said:


> My WU/hr is .78. Doing some computation yielded me : 0.78*0.2$=0.156$/hr; 10$/0.156$ = 63.856Hours if I computed right. Do you think I have produced bitcoins that time? 220khps is the rate of my card.
> 
> Well I did not turn my computer on 24/7 more of 8hr a day.



With ~70 hours I bet you could get a bitcoin, just remember, there is that luck factor.

I got lucky and after ~30hrs I got my first block, but ran dry for the next couple days, so I'm taking a break (see above post).


----------



## huayra.agera (Feb 26, 2011)

@matteumayo
I just was going to finish up to Feb 28 fro C4C then do bitcoin. And would you mind giving us a heads up on the opening of some of the pools we could join. Thanks!


----------



## n-ster (Feb 27, 2011)

Not getting any luck... been almost 5 days of non-stop 278Mhash with my 6870 OCed to 1040 Core 300 Mem..

BEWARE!!!! Bringing mem clock below 300 = substantial loss in Mhash/s

Also, Pro tip: The way Bitcoin used the GPU at 100% isn't nearly as stressful as games. I BSOD almost instantaneous on 975 Core in games and benches, but 1040 core with bitcoin no problem. Also, it seems the Core clock is somewhat exponential in Mhash gain. at 900 I'm at 230Mhash/s, at 1000 I'm at 255~257Mhash, at 1040 I'm at 275~278 Mhash/s


----------



## AphexDreamer (Feb 27, 2011)

New pool to join.

http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3889.0

He says its a test though. Don't know what he means.


----------



## n-ster (Feb 28, 2011)

The difficulty rised, and by alot..... by OVER 40%, I think it is even OVER 50%!

price of bitcoin stabilized today at 0.9 for now, a drop from 0.97. It seems like bitcoin is starting to become less appealing.

It was a get rich quick scheme for a few though. some people made 10K bitcoins with LAPTOPS a few months back and cashed out at ~1.1$, making them 10K profit at least


----------



## matteumayo (Feb 28, 2011)

n-ster said:


> The difficulty rised, and by alot..... by OVER 40%, I think it is even OVER 50%!
> 
> price of bitcoin stabilized today at 0.9 for now, a drop from 0.97. It seems like bitcoin is starting to become less appealing.
> 
> It was a get rich quick scheme for a few though. some people made 10K bitcoins with LAPTOPS a few months back and cashed out at ~1.1$, making them 10K profit at least



I don't think "get rich quick scheme" applies to everyone, I just like the idea of having some extra cash for little to no work.


----------



## n-ster (Mar 1, 2011)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2208381&postcount=678

talk about using bitcoin mining to its full potential to make $$


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 1, 2011)

Sounds dodgy to me :shadedshu


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 2, 2011)

Well I got another 50 bitcoins.


Yup...


----------



## n-ster (Mar 2, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Well I got another 50 bitcoins.
> 
> 
> Yup...



 8 straight days without luck at 280Mh/s


----------



## erocker (Mar 2, 2011)

HookeyStreet said:


> Sounds dodgy to me :shadedshu



It's great if you don't pay for your own electricity and you like the prospect of maybe making a little money (or losing money if you do pay for electricity) and you like taking chances with something new and not determined to be really legitimate or not.  Not for me.


----------



## n-ster (Mar 2, 2011)

erocker said:


> It's great if you don't pay for your own electricity and you like the prospect of maybe making a little money (or losing money if you do pay for electricity) and you like taking chances with something new and not determined to be really legitimate or not.  Not for me.



so many people got paid, it isn't that dodgy


----------



## pantherx12 (Mar 2, 2011)

n-ster said:


> so many people got paid, it isn't that dodgy



I'm fairly sure bitcoins have been going for a fair while as well.

People fear( at the least are wary of it) the different though.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 2, 2011)

n-ster said:


> 8 straight days without luck at 280Mh/s



Lol I dont mean to rub it in but I have even been turning my computer off. I just decided to have it run last night after a day of it being off and got a block


----------



## matteumayo (Mar 2, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Lol I dont mean to rub it in but I have even been turning my computer off. I just decided to have it run last night after a day of it being off and got a block





Damn you and your luck!

I'm gonna cash out the $14 in C4C as bitcoins, and then join a pool.


----------



## erocker (Mar 2, 2011)

n-ster said:


> so many people got paid, it isn't that dodgy



Sure they did! It's just not cost effective.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 2, 2011)

Well if it means anything I got a parking ticket for 27.00 and I'm probably going to use the money made from bitcoins to pay it off


----------



## Bo$$ (Mar 2, 2011)

erocker said:


> Sure they did! It's just not cost effective.



no one is listening mate


----------



## yogurt_21 (Mar 2, 2011)

wait seriously people are still doing this? lmao.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 2, 2011)

yogurt_21 said:


> wait seriously people are still doing this? lmao.



Wait seriously people are still making these comments. XD


----------



## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

erocker said:


> Sure they did! It's just not cost effective.



For ATI users it is!

The 5870 has a TDP of 188W, and at stock, the 5870 pulls 315Mh/s. Already there it makes:

210.5 hours on average for a block of 50 BTC, makes 4.21 hours per BTC. 4.21 hours * 188W = 791.48 Wh per BTC (or 0.94$ atm). Lets say a huge electrical cost of 0.205 cents per KWh... That makes 16 cents per bitcoin. profit is 78 cents for every bitcoin. Take 2 cents off if you join a pool for steady payout = 76 cents. About 4.50$ profit per day, about 140$ a month.

All this is after the 50+% difficulty increase we got, and does not count OCing. My 6870 gets 230h/s stock, 282Mh/s after OC, and since I put the mem clocks on idle, it doesn't consume that much more

At the previous difficulty, You could make OVER 8$ per day with a 5870. ~250$ a month. and on feb 17th you could make 10~11$ a day, Thats 325+$/month.


----------



## pantherx12 (Mar 3, 2011)

n-ster said:


> For ATI users it is!
> 
> The 5870 has a TDP of 188W, and at stock, the 5870 pulls 315Mh/s. Already there it makes:
> 
> ...




Thank you very much for explaning what I couldn't phrase 

Hell it takes me nearly 5 hours to run up a kilowatts worth of power for a card like mine running this kind of app. 5 hours for it to cost me 20 pence is not bad .

Due to conversion I'll be making less than you American folk but as I said, Christmas bonus isn;t bad


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Mar 3, 2011)

Ive never heard of this have have no idea what the hell the point of it is.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 3, 2011)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> Ive never heard of this have have no idea what the hell the point of it is.



Are you interested? Or just felt like sharing your lack of knowledge with us?


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Mar 3, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Are you interested? Or just felt like sharing your lack of knowledge with us?



Im confused more than anything.


----------



## pantherx12 (Mar 3, 2011)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> Im confused more than anything.



Basically it's like renting out a car/other machine you own for work and then getting I.O.Us for your trouble.

Only in this case your computers GPU is doing calculations instead of a car driving round stuff 

And instead of I.O.Us you get bit coins which current have a 2-1 to real American money.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 3, 2011)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> Im confused more than anything.



PantherX beat me to it via short explanation. If your still confused you can use mine.

Well... basically you use your Card's or CPU's (Not as effective/not worth it) power to play a lottery in which you have a random chance of getting a Block (which contains 50 bitcoins) within a set amount of time given how fast your card is. 

Bitcoins is a virtual currency. The goal is that by 2033 they get Bitcoin popular enough to be used as a standard currency to be used around the world. 

This is why they allow you to generate money (AKA Bitcoins). They have a limit of something million or billion (I don't remember) that will be generated for free, once its all generated no more free bitcoins. 

Catch is that every two weeks its becomes harder and harder and harder to generate a block (Which contains 50 bitcoins).

You can join a pool of people to get a steadier pay rate if you don't have a PC powerful enough to do this.


----------



## pantherx12 (Mar 3, 2011)

Is it still 2 for 1 Aphex?

Not sure if the difficulty change has effected it's trade price.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 3, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Is it still 2 for 1 Aphex?
> 
> Not sure if the difficulty change has effected it's trade price.



You can check here. 
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Mar 3, 2011)

So has anyone from here actually gotten paid yet?


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 3, 2011)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> So has anyone from here actually gotten paid yet?



There are a few ways to exchange.

I have sent my Generated Bitcoins to get a $50 Virtual Visa Gift Card which I'm using to get Crysis 2 of Newegg. 

I even activated IT off of Visa's site and saw my funds so I know its legit 

In 19 more confirmations I'll have another 50 Bitcoins I will again exchange for for another $50 visa gift card which I will then use to pay off a parking ticket


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Mar 3, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> There are a few ways to exchange.
> 
> I have sent my Generated Bitcoins to get a $50 Virtual Visa Gift Card which I'm using to get Crysis 2 of Newegg.
> 
> ...



Maybe I will actually give this a go then considering im unemployed. 

Long and somewhat easy way to get a new computer.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Mar 3, 2011)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> Maybe I will actually give this a go then considering im unemployed.
> 
> Long and somewhat easy way to get a new computer.



Best of luck then! 

Let us know if you strike gold!

If you need help they have a forum or you can read this one/ask us but I'm going to bed now.


----------



## HookeyStreet (Mar 3, 2011)

erocker said:


> It's great if you don't pay for your own electricity and you like the prospect of maybe making a little money (or losing money if you do pay for electricity) and you like taking chances with something new and not determined to be really legitimate or not.  *Not for me*.



I feel the same way m8.

But for those that are doing this, good luck


----------



## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> PantherX beat me to it via short explanation. If your still confused you can use mine.
> 
> Well... basically you use your Card's or CPU's (Not as effective/not worth it) power to play a lottery in which you have a random chance of getting a Block (which contains 50 bitcoins) within a set amount of time given how fast your card is.
> 
> ...



21 million bitcoins is the limit. 

The exchange rate atm is 0.94$ USD per bitcoin.

*Difficulty can also drop. Difficulty increases when the TOTAL Mhash/s rises, and decreases if that rate goes down. This is done so that we don't achieve the 21million bitcoins too fast. Price of bitcoins varies very similarly, but instead of Mhash/s, it rises when bitcoin is more popular*


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## AphexDreamer (Mar 3, 2011)

n-ster said:


> 21 million bitcoins is the limit.
> 
> The exchange rate atm is 0.94$ USD per bitcoin.
> 
> *Difficulty can also drop. Difficulty increases when the TOTAL Mhash/s rises, and decreases if that rate goes down. This is done so that we don't achieve the 21million bitcoins too fast. Price of bitcoins varies very similarly, but instead of Mhash/s, it rises when bitcoin is more popular*



Ah, thanks n-ster. Wasn't aware of that but it makes sense.


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## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Ah, thanks n-ster. Wasn't aware of that but it makes sense.



np  I might save my bitcoins until we get passed 180 000 blocks. At that point blocks will be 25 BTC, therefore USD per bitcoin should shoot up


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## AphexDreamer (Mar 3, 2011)

n-ster said:


> np  I might save my bitcoins until we get passed 180 000 blocks. At that point blocks will be 25 BTC, therefore USD per bitcoin should shoot up



Well although that sounds like a good theory, I'm going to pay my parking ticket 

But I'm going to try saving up as well (if I can )


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## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

Imagine, at the beginning, people could get 100BTC ever 4h with an i7, 600 BTC a day, 18000 BTC a month. Even if that lasted 2 weeks, 14 x 600 = 8400 BTC right there! in 2 weeks! save that up til when parity arrived and it would be 8400+$ USD


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## matteumayo (Mar 3, 2011)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> Ive never heard of this have have no idea what the hell the point of it is.



It's a new online currency that lets the users generate the currency and use it how they wish.

0.9BTC/1USD average, so you can easily make some extra cash with it.


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## matteumayo (Mar 3, 2011)

Oh yeah, so yesterday I cashed out $11.29 worth of BTC to my address, and on the C4C site it says they've been sent.

And also, I earned 2 BTC testing out the pool last night, and it says it's been sent.

However my balance remains the same, and I don't know why.

Is there some wait time to be expected here?  It's been about 24hrs since C4C "sent" them.

EDIT: oh what, just looked again, balance updated.


----------



## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> It's a new online currency that lets the users generate the currency and use it how they wish.
> 
> 1BTC/1USD average, so you can easily make some extra cash with it.



not 1 for 1 on average at all... more like 0.9 lately.


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## matteumayo (Mar 3, 2011)

Okay, I have a little question here.  Running the new pool, I get ~3BTC every 12 hours, (21 a week, 84 a month).

Running solo, this is my chart:

Probability	Time
Average:	12 days, 13 hours, 28 minutes
50%:    	8 days, 16 hours, 57 minutes
95%:	        37 days, 15 hours, 6 minutes


I currently have 64.52 BTC, and am looking to trying to buy a $100 virtual visa, then transferring the funds to my bank account.

My question is, would I be better off going solo for a bit again, or sticking with the pool and getting the visa at the end of the month?

Thanks,
-Matt


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## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

depends if you wanna play the lottery or not... IMO after 10 days average, it is a good idea to stay in the pool. My average was 7 days until the difficulty rise and now it is 10. I've been mining 9 days practically non-stop but no luck on the bitcoins


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 3, 2011)

n-ster said:


> np  I might save my bitcoins until we get passed 180 000 blocks. At that point blocks will be 25 BTC, therefore USD per bitcoin should shoot up



I think you are too quick to judge how this is going to work.  From an economics standpoint, if people are working say, 10 days to get 50 BTC, and then have to work the same amount of time to get 25 BTC, then how would their habits change?  Would they try to invest more money into hardware?  Possibly, but unlikely.  Here is my take.  

Do you know how real money gets value?  People buying it.  Just like stocks, the more something is bought, the more value it has.  Let's assume after the update people get mad, cash out all their bitcoins, and run off.  If the user base goes down, the value of bitcoins will drop.  Therefore, my prediction is less people will be interested in continuing to generate bitcoins.  Because of this, there will be less to buy.  THEREFORE if I had to predict what would happen, I would say, if anything, the USD per BTC would decrease (at least the rate of which the value goes up, if not the USD per BTC value).


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## n-ster (Mar 4, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> I think you are too quick to judge how this is going to work.  From an economics standpoint, if people are working say, 10 days to get 50 BTC, and then have to work the same amount of time to get 25 BTC, then how would their habits change?  Would they try to invest more money into hardware?  Possibly, but unlikely.  Here is my take.
> 
> Do you know how real money gets value?  People buying it.  Just like stocks, the more something is bought, the more value it has.  Let's assume after the update people get mad, cash out all their bitcoins, and run off.  If the user base goes down, the value of bitcoins will drop.  Therefore, my prediction is less people will be interested in continuing to generate bitcoins.  Because of this, there will be less to buy.  THEREFORE if I had to predict what would happen, I would say, if anything, the USD per BTC would decrease (at least the rate of which the value goes up, if not the USD per BTC value).



in which case it would be smarter to sell right before the 180K

but IMO, bitcoin is starting to have more and more support. by the time we reach 180K, there will be alot of businesses accepting bitcoin. If mass people leave nbitcoin mining, then the difficulty will dramatically decrease, enough so that it is easier to make bitcoins and people come back! On top of that, people prefer mining for half the time for half the payout. makes a steadier income and keeps people happy.

There is not even 6 million bitcoins in circulation and we are at 111XXX blocks. If bitcoin has a dramatic fall, the return should be as dramatic IMO. I just wish I was an earlier adopter, would have made a fortune by now


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 4, 2011)

n-ster said:


> If mass people leave nbitcoin mining, then the difficulty will dramatically decrease



Difficulty won't decrease, remember how the amount of computing power is distributed equally?  Yeah, difficulty is pretty much set to go up.  Too bad it is an exponential curve.  "steadier income?"  LOLNO.  

You make a lot of assumptions.  I might ask my economics professor tomorrow about this topic.  I can already give you an answer however.  

From my econ book:


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## n-ster (Mar 4, 2011)

It's only a few hundred bucks that I generated so at worst it isn't that bad 

thing is, the supply won't grow exponentially, and will stop at 21 million, which is the beauty of bitcoin. On top of that, they are thinking of ways to take bitcoins off the market and back into the mining pool gradually, therefore the supply won't be that high, while more and more companies use bitcoin. The popularity WILL increase demand, while supply will stabilize in a sinusoidal pattern. supply = stable, demand = continously rising = WIN

There aren't many huge Mhash farms, so the average miner is usually not far from the average hash rate. Also, don't underestimate the demand of bitcoins, even from non-mining people. There are maybe a thousand people with 1000 BTC or more, and out of those, a few hundred never even mined. lotsa people buy and sell bitcoin as a good analyst can easily predict the value of BTCs, especially early on, as long as he followed the adoption rate

ATM Bitcoins are very volatile, but it WILL stabilize later on


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 4, 2011)

n-ster said:


> It's only a few hundred bucks that I generated so at worst it isn't that bad
> 
> thing is, the supply won't grow exponentially, and will stop at 21 million, which is the beauty of bitcoin. On top of that, they are thinking of ways to take bitcoins off the market and back into the mining pool gradually, therefore the supply won't be that high, while more and more companies use bitcoin. The popularity WILL increase demand, while supply will stabilize in a sinusoidal pattern. supply = stable, demand = continously rising = WIN
> 
> ...



Did you read my graph?  As supply increases, as does quantity, however, exchange rate will go down.


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 4, 2011)

pvt, i am excited you are finally learning economics but bitcoins does not play the same rules. you need to read about how the creator of bitcoins built an entire algorithm around a currency where it could maintain and grow value while not ever generating more than 21 million bitcoins despite supply and demand. you are also comparing bitcoins to a fiat currency. instead it would be closer to something like gold.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 4, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> pvt, i am excited you are finally learning economics but bitcoins does not play the same rules. you need to read about how the creator of bitcoins built an entire algorithm around a currency where it could maintain and grow value while not ever generating more than 21 million bitcoins despite supply and demand. you are also comparing bitcoins to a fiat currency. instead it would be closer to something like gold.



>implying I am FINALLY learning economics

An algorithm cannot determine the value of bitcoins in comparison to another currency.  It might be designed to do such, but it won't.  The user base will solely affect the value of a BTN.  No users, no value.  Now, I am sure the algorithm could account for the number of users, but not the value they give it.  The dude who created it has no central bank, therefore exchange rates cannot be set.  The users determine it, my point being, the algorithm cannot tell the users to make it worth more / less.


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 4, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> >implying I am FINALLY learning economics
> 
> An algorithm cannot determine the value of bitcoins in comparison to another currency.  It might be designed to do such, but it won't.  The user base will solely affect the value of a BTN.  No users, no value.  Now, I am sure the algorithm could account for the number of users, but not the value they give it.  The dude who created it has no central bank, therefore exchange rates cannot be set.  The users determine it, my point being, the algorithm cannot tell the users to make it worth more / less.



that isnt what the algorithm does. you are applying your limited knowledge of microeconomics on a virtual currency. it is too complex for me to explain. you have to read it yourself. 

http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 4, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> that isnt what the algorithm does. you are applying your limited knowledge of microeconomics on a virtual currency. it is too complex for me to explain. you have to read it yourself.
> 
> http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf



That brings up two of the points I did:  the central bank and the inflation problem, however I don't think that the article really explains how exactly the value will increase or decrease, which is the issue I am trying to look at.  Would you care to explain with your superior knowledge of economics?

EDIT:  You changed the link!  The above post refers to:

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/44718/htg-explains-what-is-bitcoin/


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 4, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> That brings up two of the points I did:  the central bank and the inflation problem, however I don't think that the article really explains how exactly the value will increase or decrease, which is the issue I am trying to look at.  Would you care to explain with your superior knowledge of economics?



the value should neither radically increase or decrease based on its demand. so if more people start mining bitcoins then the algorithm can securely put more of them out there without risk of duplication. and since it is decentralized and not fiat, central banks and govts cannot debase it.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 4, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> the value should neither *radically* increase or decrease based on its demand.



Nobody is claiming that.  



Easy Rhino said:


> so if more people start mining bitcoins then the algorithm can securely put more of them out there without risk of duplication.



Nobody is claiming that.  



Easy Rhino said:


> since it is decentralized and not fiat, central banks and govts cannot debase it.



Correct, central banks and governments cannot debase it, unless it becomes recognized, and hint, it won't.  Users, however, can debase it.  Which is the point I made above. 



Easy Rhino said:


> http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf



Sneaky of you, changing the link.  However, neither article explains how the algorithm reacts to increased user base, increased difficulty.  In fact it talks more about how BTN's are generated, how they are traded among users, and how someone would be unable to steal BTN.  

Are you just playing devil's advocate?  I am, but it really seems as if you aren't trying too hard.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Mar 4, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Nobody is claiming that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



im just trying to explain to you that this goes beyond an intro to microeconomics class. i already explained that the algorithm will create more bitcoins as demand increases for them. it does this in a way as to not overvalue or undervalue the currency based on what it can buy. since it is not fiat it cannot be debased by anyone group. its value comes from people willing to use it. if people are no longer willing to use it then wont be "worth" less per say in the market because it is not being inflated everyday by a central agency. it really isnt that hard to explain the concept. but i am not an economist nor a mathematician so i cant explain how this guy, who is recognized as a true genius, wrote and generated the program. you can read even more about it here 
http://www.bitcoin.org/faq#General_Questions

everyone involved in bitcoins knows its true value comes from people's willingness to use it. nobody would claim otherwise. some people and organizations like compute4cash have taken a keen interest and are willing to assume the risk upfront for a profit in the backend. others go it alone hoping to make some extra cash in the process without risking anything but a higher electric bill. bitcoins really is not a mystery nor can it be called a scam. it is simply a virtual currency (there are many) that is incredibly brilliant and a move in a very interesting direction.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 4, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> im just trying to explain to you that this goes beyond an intro to microeconomics class. i already explained that the algorithm will create more bitcoins as demand increases for them. it does this in a way as to not overvalue or undervalue the currency based on what it can buy. since it is not fiat it cannot be debased by anyone group. its value comes from people willing to use it. if people are no longer willing to use it then wont be "worth" less per say in the market because it is not being inflated everyday by a central agency. it really isnt that hard to explain the concept. but i am not an economist nor a mathematician so i cant explain how this guy, who is recognized as a true genius, wrote and generated the program. you can read even more about it here
> http://www.bitcoin.org/faq#General_Questions
> 
> everyone involved in bitcoins knows its true value comes from people's willingness to use it. nobody would claim otherwise. some people and organizations like compute4cash have taken a keen interest and are willing to assume the risk upfront for a profit in the backend. others go it alone hoping to make some extra cash in the process without risking anything but a higher electric bill. bitcoins really is not a mystery nor can it be called a scam. it is simply a virtual currency (there are many) that is incredibly brilliant and a move in a very interesting direction.



Rhino all your links are really unhelpful, the question I was trying to answer was how will the value of the BTN go up or down.  You seem to be avoiding my question and instead explaining how I don't know about economics.  



Easy Rhino said:


> if people are no longer willing to use it then wont be "worth" less per say in the market because it is not being inflated everyday by a central agency.



If we eliminate variables from the equation and look at the immediate short term, if people stop trading BTN, the volume will not change, but the value of it will, because it is being traded less.  I think you are oversimplifying, see, the central bank here is the users.  Sure they cannot set rates of interest or anything, but they can value it.  If the users feel that a BTN tomorrow is worth less, then it will be worth less, as users will trade it at lower levels.  



Easy Rhino said:


> everyone involved in bitcoins knows its true value comes from people's willingness to use it. nobody would claim otherwise. some people and organizations like compute4cash have taken a keen interest and are willing to assume the risk upfront for a profit in the backend. others go it alone hoping to make some extra cash in the process without risking anything but a higher electric bill. bitcoins really is not a mystery nor can it be called a scam. it is simply a virtual currency (there are many) that is incredibly brilliant and a move in a very interesting direction.



I don't think I argue against any of this.  I am trying to hit at one point and I feel it keeps getting avoided, if, in the short run after the cut of BTN from 50 to 25, will the value go up or down.  My opinion is down.


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 4, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> If we eliminate variables from the equation and look at the immediate short term, if people stop trading BTN, the volume will not change, but the value of it will, because it is being traded less.  I think you are oversimplifying, see, the central bank here is the users.  Sure they cannot set rates of interest or anything, but they can value it.  If the users feel that a BTN tomorrow is worth less, then it will be worth less, as users will trade it at lower levels.
> 
> I don't think I argue against any of this.  I am trying to hit at one point and I feel it keeps getting avoided, if, in the short run after the cut of BTN from 50 to 25, will the value go up or down.  My opinion is down.



you don't understand because you are not asking the right questions. this is probably the best explanation.  

So, I don’t get it — is the value of a bitcoin determined by the resources expended to produce a bitcoin?

Like anything else, the value of a bitcoin is determined solely by supply and demand. If the market value of a bitcoin is higher than the production cost, then it will be worthwhile to devote resources to mining more bitcoins. In this sense, the cost of mining will tend to approximate the value, but it does not drive the value. It is the combination of supply and demand that drives the value. It is entirely conceivable that at some point, the cost of mining a bitcoin will be astronomical, nearing infinity, yet the supply will be stable and the value of a bitcoin will be determined by demand. At this point, transaction fees will support the network and the value of a bitcoin should rise and fall in conjunction with its underlying economy.

If the value of Bitcoins rise, then isn’t this deflation?

I define inflation and deflation as changes in the monetary supply, and it is when we define them in this way that we can see the damage that they cause. If someone could just conjure up a billion dollars out of thin air and spend it at today’s prices, then they have effectively stolen value from everyone else. Likewise, the deflation that follows an unsustainable credit boom and the ensuing bubble burst can be painful. However, neither of these events are possible with Bitcoin because they are not under the control of a monopoly issuer and cannot be inflated the way that fiat currencies can. Instead, their value will be determined primarily by voluntary trade, which means by how much others value them.

http://www.investitwisely.com/bitcoin-the-digital-currency-of-the-future/


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 4, 2011)

First of all, glad to see a well thought out response!  I think this conversation is moving in the correct direction.  



Easy Rhino said:


> Instead, their value will be determined primarily by voluntary trade, which means by how much others value them.



Do I not say this above?  I believe I say this multiple times.  I think we can both agree on this statement.  



Easy Rhino said:


> is the value of a bitcoin determined by the resources expended to produce a bitcoin?



I have mixed feelings about your answer.  I believe mining helps make up part of the supply, therefore mining would drive value, as miners are the ones who sell and make up the supply (EDIT: along with currently existing bitcoin trades of course).  Also, please note I am trying to answer N-ster's original query, that "will BTN value increase with the update?"  I am attempting to do short term analysis.  I believe I mention this multiple times, the chapter in the book after all is on short term.  



Easy Rhino said:


> you are not asking the right questions.



"Will BTN increase in value with the update?"  That is the question posed by n-ster.  Let's think short term and not end game stuff, we know mining will be useless eventually, hell look at the graph, eventually it could take 10 years to get 50 BTN.  Short term, if people are barely making a return on their investment at this point, considering the cost of electricity, of their computer, then what happens when the profit gets cut in half (25 BTN) and in short term, the value does not increase.  People stop mining.  If people stop mining the supply curve shifts down, decreasing price.


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 4, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> "Will BTN increase in value with the update?"  That is the question posed by n-ster.  Let's think short term and not end game stuff, we know mining will be useless eventually, hell look at the graph, eventually it could take 10 years to get 50 BTN.  Short term, if people are barely making a return on their investment at this point, considering the cost of electricity, of their computer, then what happens when the profit gets cut in half (25 BTN) and in short term, the value does not increase.  People stop mining.  If people stop mining the supply curve shifts down, decreasing price.



the "value" of BTN will neither significantly increase or decrease as the difficulty to mine coins increases. the beauty of bitcoins is that is guards against inflation by calculating demand based upon how quickly people are mining. i think i read somewhere that you can calculate how quickly you mine by dividing your cpu power by the groups total power. so as more people mine it becomes harder but the value of bitcoins remains unchanged in its own economy. so if more and more people start mining bitcoins its value will increase in the global marketplace but it will not experience deflation like fiat currencies (where central govts then print out more money to guard against). once 21,000,000 coins have been mined then the program stops generating coins and people make money by processing transactions. and there is indeed a lot of money to be made in that market as well. the key to answering n-sters question and to what you have been trying to get at is don't confuse the value of bitcoin in the global marketplace to the value of bitcoin in what it can buy.


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 4, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> don't confuse the value of bitcoin in the global marketplace to the value of bitcoin in what it can buy.



Are they not the same?  

Say the exchange rate is 1:1.  

$100 in the global marketplace can get me $100 in goods. (P→Q)
100 BTN in the global marketplace can get me 100 BTN in goods. (Q→R)

Therefore, through the Law of Syllogism, P→R.  

If 100 BTN = $100, then 100 BTN can get me $100 in goods.


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 4, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Are they not the same?
> 
> Say the exchange rate is 1:1.
> 
> ...



there is the value of what something can buy and then there is the value of the currency within its own ecosystem. im simply talking about the semantics of the word value. i may have misunderstood what you initially meant by the word.


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## n-ster (Mar 4, 2011)

Holy smokes nice discussion 

atm we are getting 40~50% difficulty increases every 2 weeks ish....  but it is estimated that it will go down a bit (ie: 30ish%) later on, and even less as difficulty rises. However, going from 50 to 25 BTC is like rising the difficulty up by 100%, without even counting the actual difficulty increase. A rise of 25% difficulty followed by 100% in a very short period of time should affect the value of bitcoin for sure. but will it go up or down? What factors come into play figuring out SHORT term HIGH increases of difficulty? what has happen before when difficulty rised a much larger amount then normal?


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 4, 2011)

n-ster said:


> going from 50 to 25 BTC is like rising the difficulty up by 100%



You mean 50%?  25/50 = .5 * 100 = 50%



n-ster said:


> but will it [*BTN value*] go up or down? What factors come into play figuring out SHORT term HIGH increases of difficulty? what has happen before when difficulty rised a much larger amount then normal?



First question, do we think the value of BTN will rise or drop with the difficulty increase?  Here is my reasoning for why the value will drop (not sharply, maybe by a few cents):

Since the difficulty goes up, less people will be inclined to mine points (electricity costs, etc), as this happens the supply of points increasing (the slope of the supply line in the short term) will decrease.  Therefore, although the value still might be increasing, it will do so at a slower rate.  In the long term, the value will not exactly go down, but in the short term, value might drop.


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## n-ster (Mar 4, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> You mean 50%?  25/50 = .5 * 100 = 50%
> 
> 
> 
> ...



10 days average to get 50 BTC --> 10 days average to get 25 BTC = 20 days average to get 50BTC

# days double = 100% increase

How I see it, demand stays the same, supply drops a little... would that not mean a higher $/BTC?


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## matteumayo (Mar 5, 2011)

Demand may decrease if it keeps getting so difficult for everyone.

Notice Bitcoins just recently got popular, so a lot of people will probably drop out once it impacts them enough financially.

Sure, it's worth it to mine now... but in the future, it'll just be too difficult and too expensive.


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## ShiBDiB (Mar 5, 2011)

Been running for a few days and have gotten nothing... ontop of the program seems to screw with the screensaver I have.


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## PhysXerror (Mar 5, 2011)

This is my second day mining, Is there any way to tell every things running smoothly apart from high load? Using standard bitcoin.exe and m0mchil's GPU miner


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## matteumayo (Mar 5, 2011)

PhysXerror said:


> This is my second day mining, Is there any way to tell every things running smoothly apart from high load? Using standard bitcoin.exe and m0mchil's GPU miner



As long as you can see the has rates on both clients it's running fine.


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## n-ster (Mar 5, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> As long as you can see the has rates on both clients it's running fine.



Hash rate doesn't display on the bitcoin client for me, and I already had a block.


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## matteumayo (Mar 5, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Hash rate doesn't display on the bitcoin client for me, and I already had a block.



Were you mining with your CPU also?

If you don't mine with your CPU, all you're looking for is the rate on the GPU client, then you're set.


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## n-ster (Mar 5, 2011)

CPU mining is not worth it at all


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## PhysXerror (Mar 6, 2011)

n-ster said:


> CPU mining is not worth it at all



Your right, its definitely not worth it.

Ive switched to what i think is pooled, and getting "paid" for every hash.


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## n-ster (Mar 6, 2011)

PhysXerror said:


> Your right, its definitely not worth it.
> 
> Ive switched to what i think is pooled, and getting "paid" for every hash.



The one that takes over 10%? It eliminates most of bitcoin's risk at a pretty big fee IMO, but still is interesting


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## n-ster (Mar 7, 2011)

I FINALLY GOT ANOTHER BLOCK after 12 days of mining overclocked, when my "Average" should have been 7 days

Difficulty is rising in a few day apparently


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 7, 2011)

n-ster said:


> I FINALLY GOT ANOTHER BLOCK after 12 days of mining overclocked, when my "Average" should have been 7 days
> 
> Difficulty is rising in a few day apparently



Difficulty almost doubled then.  I am guess that people will be mining less, as electricity cost will be too high to still make a profit.  However, I bet lots of those guys will keep going, as they think the value of the currency is going to increase.  As if.


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## n-ster (Mar 7, 2011)

Short term it will continue it's decline to 0.8$, perhaps even to 0.5$ is we aren't lucky, but later on it will easily get back to parity and around the 1.1$ or so


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 7, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Short term it will continue it's decline to 0.8$, perhaps even to 0.5$ is we aren't lucky, but later on it will easily get back to parity and around the 1.1$ or so



I don't think it will decline that much.  Maybe $.10, TOPS, if that.


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## n-ster (Mar 7, 2011)

It did a quick decline in MINUTES from 0.9$ to 0.81$, then the past 24 hours have been hectic, now it is around the 0.84$~0.86$ mark







Unless it goes back near parity, it will decline again


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 7, 2011)

n-ster said:


> It did a quick decline in MINUTES from 0.9$ to 0.81$, then the past 24 hours have been hectic, now it is around the 0.84$~0.86$ mark
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/110307/Capture044.jpg
> 
> Unless it goes back near parity, it will decline again



I had no idea!  I guess I was pretty correct about the decline then, but I did not think it would happen on this scale.


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## n-ster (Mar 7, 2011)

I've been following the economics and I realized quite fast that there would be a decline soon, followed by a big comeback, OR a small but still substantial rise and then a bit of stability before the decline and comeback

EDIT: Difficulty increase is estimated in 440 blocks, at 112896 and be a 37% increase


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## matteumayo (Mar 7, 2011)

n-ster said:


> I've been following the economics and I realized quite fast that there would be a decline soon, followed by a big comeback, OR a small but still substantial rise and then a bit of stability before the decline and comeback
> 
> EDIT: Difficulty increase is estimated in 440 blocks, at 112896 and be a 37% increase



Oh god not again.


----------



## pantherx12 (Mar 7, 2011)

I don't have my 6870 anymore so no more mining for me : [


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## n-ster (Mar 7, 2011)

as of now I made about 3~4$ every 1$ I spent on electricity (I pay about 10cents the KWh), and I mined UNDER average


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## n-ster (Mar 8, 2011)

http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4292.0


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## PhysXerror (Mar 9, 2011)

n-ster said:


> The one that takes over 10%? It eliminates most of bitcoin's risk at a pretty big fee IMO, but still is interesting



It takes/keeps exactly 10% apparently. Its quite a good service with instant payout etc


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## n-ster (Mar 9, 2011)

Difficulty rose a few hours ago... Bitcoin value, on the contrary, fell 

http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php







Almost double from when I started... Now almost 14 days with a 6870 on average (273Mh/s 13 days 20 hours)


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## huayra.agera (Mar 17, 2011)

Any updates here?


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## n-ster (Mar 17, 2011)

Difficulty is planned to be DECREASED... yes DECREASED!!!! About 10~15% decrease

unfortunately BTC value is still low, and I foolishly bought some near 0.86$ per BTC.... Mining is till profitable for 99% of al North Americans... as for people paying 0.30$+ per KWH, I believe you break even or even lose $$


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## matteumayo (Mar 17, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Difficulty is planned to be DECREASED... yes DECREASED!!!! About 10~15% decrease
> 
> unfortunately BTC value is still low, and I foolishly bought some near 0.86$ per BTC.... Mining is till profitable for 99% of al North Americans... as for people paying 0.30$+ per KWH, I believe you break even or even lose $$



Glad to hear about the decrease


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## n-ster (Mar 18, 2011)

Prices are going down 






I was sure they were going to stay around the 0.85$+ mark and that at some point after the dificulty decrease it would at least go to 0.90$+ thats why I bought some at ~0.86$ (80BTC worth) hoping to make a few bucks... Hopefully I am correct to assume a price increase in 3~4 weeks time. Wish I had more Paypal $$ to buy more at <0.70$, because whatever happens now, I know that in the long term the price will go back up


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## matteumayo (Mar 18, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Prices are going down
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/110318/Capture072.jpg
> 
> I was sure they were going to stay around the 0.85$+ mark and that at some point after the dificulty decrease it would at least go to 0.90$+ thats why I bought some at ~0.86$ (80BTC worth) hoping to make a few bucks... Hopefully I am correct to assume a price increase in 3~4 weeks time. Wish I had more Paypal $$ to buy more at <0.70$, because whatever happens now, I know that in the long term the price will go back up



nooooooooo


----------



## n-ster (Mar 18, 2011)

Another dip, it seems that BTC price may stay at <0.75$...


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## n-ster (Mar 18, 2011)

It is now stabilizing slightly under what it was before the dips, thankfully, but idk where it will go next

The difficulty decrease is projected at 66665, a 14% decrease, and it keeps on going lower!

check the estimate here: http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/


----------



## Wyverex (Mar 23, 2011)

Info that might interest some of you:
A Google engineer has released an open source Java client for the Bitcoin peer-to-peer currency system, simply called BitcoinJ.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Mar 23, 2011)

Can somebody POST 1 bit of proof this isn't just a scam....


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 23, 2011)

jmcslob said:


> Can somebody POST 1 bit of proof this isn't just a scam....



people have been getting paid. also, dozens of real vendors are accepting it as currency. we have been over this a hundred times. bitcoins is not a scam. it may not work long term (we will see) but some people are hoping it does. just like anything else in this life when you really think about it.


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## pantherx12 (Mar 23, 2011)

jmcslob said:


> Can somebody POST 1 bit of proof this isn't just a scam....



Well as Rhino said, people have already been paid.

But instead of us doing the work to prove it's legit, why not find 1 single report of it being a scam.

Should be easy if it's a scam right?



by the by, pay day soon! new 6870 so will be mining again, might be able to RMA my other card as well using ram/moset cooling plate /shroud from my new card : ] ( wasn't the modded ram/mosfet plate that caused card death so fair game I say!)

So dual 6870s mining soon. YEAH! both at 1ghz core aswell I'd wadger ;(


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## n-ster (Mar 23, 2011)

I got "paid" a few times... but really, you should look at Bitcoin as virtual currency. If you read about the mechanics of bitcoin and understand how it works, you also understand its genius!

nice read: http://www.cio.com.au/article/380394/open_source_identity_bitcoin_technical_lead_gavin_andresen

atm the currency is rising from a fall. people panicked when they saw the difficulty was about to GO DOWN instead of going up so many people left (ie: sold all there bitcoins) at lower prices and the prices fell by 15 cents on the USD. It is now back up to where it was before (~0.85$/bitcoin) and I expected to continue rising a bit.












as you can see, a few people regained trust in bitcoin or new miners came or something because the drop in difficulty is less significant than before. Still, difficulty better rise next time. I know I will be mining more

I will however sell all but the 100 BTC I sold as option till May 1st once the price hits ~0.90+$


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## matteumayo (Mar 23, 2011)

So is solo-mining still profitable?

I've only been getting ~2.50 to 3BTC a night in deepBIT.net's pool with a 5850.

I have close to a hundred BTC total, but it doesn't seem very profitable at this rate.

The reason I switched was because of the huge difficulty increase.


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## AphexDreamer (Mar 23, 2011)

Which would explain why I haven't been getting anything lately. 

I've stopped for a bit though since I'm play crysis 2.


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## n-ster (Mar 23, 2011)

No, pool is better unless you mine at or over 600Mh/s. Else it is too risky, not stable (ie: you could get nothing for a month, or you could get 3 blocks in a week).


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## n-ster (Mar 25, 2011)

http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=1493.msg71686#new

It seems that USD per BTC will rise a little more before stabilizing around 0.86~0.95$. I have about 100BTC that is tied to an option @ 1.02$/BTC until May 1st (I sold that option at 6.50$USD PM me if you wanna know what I mean, too tired atm lol) and another 100BTC that idk if I will sell around the 0.89~0.92$ range or not.


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## n-ster (Mar 25, 2011)

WOOT difficulty at 68978.89 !!!! Didn't go down as much as we would want to but always a good thing that USD --> BTC rise to 0.88+$ and Difficulty goes down... however, IT IS TIME TO MINE 24/7 TILL THE NEXT DIFFICULTY BEFORE IT SHOOTS UP AGAIN


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## n-ster (Apr 6, 2011)

Difficulty is up again, 82347


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## n-ster (Apr 14, 2011)

Exciting news!!!

After the March to mid-April slump in prices and rise in difficulty, things are looking up! There was a low of 0.56$ 10 days ago, and we are now at 1$ !!!!!








Bitcoin has reached parity with the USD, and the trend is up!


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## AphexDreamer (Apr 14, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Exciting news!!!
> 
> After the March to mid-April slump in prices and rise in difficulty, things are looking up! There was a low of 0.56$ 10 days ago, and we are now at 1$ !!!!!
> 
> ...



Any alternative easy working methods of exchange? I still just use Bitcoin 2 CC but I'd like to convert less that 50 bitcoins a time.


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## n-ster (Apr 14, 2011)

https://www.bitcoin2cash.com/
http://coincard.ndrix.com/
or just using #bitcoin-otc

The easiest is coincard... bitcoin2cash is good because it is actual cash though
mtgox.com is good too, I think the lower limit is 10 BTC


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## pantherx12 (Apr 14, 2011)

6870 should hopefully be with me tomorrow or Monday and I can start mining again : ]

Seems like a good time as well, they still same value as a dollar?


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## matteumayo (Apr 15, 2011)

-snip-
-snippy snip snip-

Problem solved, I was just too impatient.

If anyone wants to know, coincard is a very viable option, as they only take a 1% fee and it's nearly instant transfer. :]


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## AphexDreamer (Apr 15, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> -snip-
> Hey how long does it usually take for sent coins to be confirmed?
> 
> I sent 120 to CoinCard and it says 0/uncomfirmed for the past 15 minutes...
> ...



I have yet to use them but please let me know how it turns out, I'll wait and see before I do 

I'd like to add that when using Bitcoin to Virtual Visa I receive the funds instantly and get the Gift Card info rather instantly as well.


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## matteumayo (Apr 15, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> I have yet to use them but please let me know how it turns out, I'll wait and see before I do
> 
> I'd like to add that when using Bitcoin to Virtual Visa the receive the funds instantly and give the Gift Card info rather instantly as well.



That was my original plan, it just seems to complicated moving VV funds to PPal.


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## AphexDreamer (Apr 15, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> That was my original plan, it just seems to complicated moving VV funds to PPal.



Well I just did it. I'll let you know what happens.


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## n-ster (Apr 15, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> -snip-
> Hey how long does it usually take for sent coins to be confirmed?
> 
> I sent 120 to CoinCard and it says 0/uncomfirmed for the past 15 minutes...
> ...



Sometimes bots flood the bitcoin network and transactions are slow... is there a number or something? I can contact mndrix for you np. He is very trustworthy, don't worry, no need to freak out

EDIT: I left him a message on his thread for you


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## AphexDreamer (Apr 15, 2011)

Got my money through paypal. 

You just have to be patient.


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## n-ster (Apr 15, 2011)

USD to BTC hit 1.08$ per BTC a few minutes ago! the all-time high was 1.1$


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## n-ster (Apr 20, 2011)

BTC value is up at 1.20$ USD per


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## AphexDreamer (Apr 20, 2011)

So I recently did a reformat and now my card is running 5C hotter with 20% faster FAN speed with the Bitcoin GPU client then it did before I reformatted.

Only differences now is that is that I'm using CCC 11.4p and ATI Stream SDK 2.3 along with a new GUI Mining Client that seems to give me an extra 30 mhashes/sec but that could be because of the updated drivers? Before I used 11.2 and ATI Stream 2.1. 

The confusing part is that my volts this time around are slightly lower than before. I use Asus AI tweaker (Its a bit glitchy I can never get it to give me the volts I tell it too) to modify volts and then monitor it with GPUz. Before I had 2.985 volts and now I have 2.875 with hotter temps. 

Are the updated drivers enough for the Mhash/s Boost and increased temps?

I suppose I'll get a better idea once I play some games, but I'm waiting to get my steam account back atm.

Also is 85-86C safe temps?


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## n-ster (Apr 20, 2011)

85-86 is SAFE, but can cause stability problems.

Downgrade back to 11.2 and 2.1 then, see if temps lower again


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## AphexDreamer (Apr 20, 2011)

n-ster said:


> 85-86 is SAFE, but can cause stability problems.
> 
> Downgrade back to 11.2 and 2.1 then, see if temps lower again



So it turns out I wasn't on any SDK. I just had installed the 11.3 openCL driver.

I have now installed 2.1 and temps are the same. Mhases are roughly the same, a bit higher if anything.


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## n-ster (Apr 20, 2011)

temps are the same as the high temps or the lower temps from before?


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## AphexDreamer (Apr 20, 2011)

n-ster said:


> temps are the same as the high temps or the lower temps from before?



Temps are the same as the high temps.

My volts are lower than before I reformatted, I really don't get how my temps would get higher.

Maybe its cause its hot outside? Idk. Temp is at 87C now. It says its 81F in my house but it doesn't feel 81.

Maybe I"m overlooking it and it is just the weather. IDK :/ Before I reformatted even on hot days it would just reach 83.


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## n-ster (Apr 21, 2011)

try to downclock memory when you are only mining


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## enaher (Apr 24, 2011)

I just started bitcoin though I barely understand it, I don't pay for electricity so might be profitable the thing is Im getting like 2M/Hash and I'm on a 128 kbps conection so you guy's think I'll earn any bitcoins? my HD6850 is being used for gaming only I still don't understand how to use my Gpu eitherway  so I need some pointers


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## AphexDreamer (Apr 24, 2011)

enaher said:


> I just started bitcoin though I barely understand it, I don't pay for electricity so might be profitable the thing is Im getting like 2M/Hash and I'm on a 128 kbps conection so you guy's think I'll earn any bitcoins? my HD6850 is being used for gaming only I still don't understand how to use my Gpu eitherway  so I need some pointers



For 2 Mhashes/sec your averaging 2295 days, 8 hours. 

Use this site to determine how long it will take. http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php

You really need to use that GPU.

To set it up. Install ATI Stream SDK 2.4 and then use this GUI for mining to easily get your GPU mining bitcoins. 

http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3878.0

Even with 360 Mhashes/sec you might want to consider joining a Pool of miners that all share the work and the doe which helps with payout when difficulty increases (Difficulty can become harder or easier). 

Their are several pools out there to be a part off. Most if not all should be listed under the SErver drop down menu of that GUI Miner. Pick one google it make an account with them, set it up and boom your in the pool. 

Personally I"m apart of Slushs Pool. Just google Slush Pool Bitcoin and first one is his site.

Good Luck!


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## n-ster (Apr 24, 2011)

Use Tyco's pool. I find it much easier and full of features. deepbit.net You can expect 180~200 Mh/s for that 6850, I get 520~540 Mh/s (260~270 each) for 2 6870's OCed to 1020 core 341 mem


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## enaher (Apr 24, 2011)

Think a second 6850 would help me a bit?


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## n-ster (Apr 24, 2011)

It would do as much as the 1st 6850


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## enaher (Apr 24, 2011)

I've got an Msi GD70 with a Athlon x3 410e brand new on my closet besides a couple of HD 4830 and a couple of HD 6850, could the four work at once?


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## n-ster (Apr 24, 2011)

yea, but it might be better to not use the CPU as the only real difference itll make is the heat in the room... the 4830 will be slow, but with free electricity, why not? However, I'd still suggest to just mine with only the 6850s as it would p-revent any potential problems


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## enaher (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks, I'll build a second rig for each set o gpu's

NINJA EDIT: I've got another question I created an account on deepbit but I have no Idea how to creat a wallet as matter of fact I don't even know what the wallet is


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## AphexDreamer (Apr 24, 2011)

enaher said:


> Thanks, I'll build a second rig for each set o gpu's
> 
> NINJA EDIT: I've got another question I created an account on deepbit but I have no Idea how to creat a wallet as matter of fact I don't even know what the wallet is



Oh you need to download the Bitcoin Client as well. 

Thats like Downloading your wallet. Once you get it it generate a key that grants access to your wallet. 

http://www.bitcoin.org/


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## AphexDreamer (Apr 29, 2011)

Wow 24 Bitcoins just got me $60.69 US dollars! Straight to my paypal! 

Sweet!


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## n-ster (Apr 29, 2011)

The high for today is 2.749$ per BTC!

I lost 100BTC at 1.02 each yesterday as I had sold an option >.> stupid thing to do lol


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Apr 29, 2011)

n-ster said:


> The high for today is 2.749$ per BTC!
> 
> I lost 100BTC at 1.02 each yesterday as I had sold an option >.> stupid thing to do lol



Wow I am surprised BTC has gone up 3x.  How hard is it to actually generate BTC now?  Sounds like the currency is really volatile still however.


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## n-ster (Apr 29, 2011)

depends on your GPU and your overclock

It takes exactly 8.5 days on average for me to generate 50 BTC, with 2 * 6870 overclocked to 1020/341. With 2 5970s and an average overclock, it would take 3.25 days for 50 BTC. Note that there are pools so that your reward is split. The higher the pool's speed, the more frequently you get paid... the bigger ones pay you on average every 45 mins to an hour or so.

atm, 50 BTC is easily worth 130$

Source


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## matteumayo (Apr 30, 2011)

I can't believe how much the price has gone up recently.

I wish I didn't sell my 100btc at 1$ a month ago :[


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## n-ster (Apr 30, 2011)

I saw it coming... If you analyse well enough the patterns, you understand how similar it can be to gold, and how it goes up and down. notice that when bitcoin rises, it rises fast. Notice that there is always over speculation and a quick correction. you gotta also understad the logic of bitcoins if you are looking in the long run.

By 2012, BTC may well be over 15$, even 20$ per BTC


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## Sinzia (Apr 30, 2011)

Tempting.... Any idiots guide to setting this up?


----------



## n-ster (Apr 30, 2011)

lots  but I don't feel like finding them sorry  If you'd like, I'll set it up for you... won't take much time at all... (through remote desktop). PM me if you want me to help


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## entropy13 (Apr 30, 2011)

I'll be trying this out, and the FAQs page for bitcoin is still incomprehensible for me. Any "simpler" explanations from people here?


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## n-ster (Apr 30, 2011)

download the program, download sdk 2.1, download m0mchill's poclbm miner, and follow instructions then....

by download I mean install as well

an example of my .bat file:

start /DC:\bitcoin\poc poclbm.exe -d 0 -v -w 128 -f 120 --host=mining.bitcoin.cz --port=8332 --user= --pass=


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## n-ster (Apr 30, 2011)

WOW phoenix miner is MUCH faster for me.... getting close to 300mh/s instead of 275mh/s for each of my 6870s


----------



## enaher (Apr 30, 2011)

You'll think I'm hard headed (probably I am) but I can't seem to use the miner's except the Gui poclbm on deepbit no other miner start's up, no nada If you have time could you explain I'm getting some sucky Mhash like 98 with 1 HD 6850 and 135 with both.


----------



## entropy13 (Apr 30, 2011)

Anyone who can make a more detailed, step-by-step guide for me?

I got the original Bitcoin client, and I got "RPC miner" too, as it uses CUDA.

I'm currently "Generating" in the client too, but I don't know how to use this "miner", or what it is for actually. LOL

EDIT: Well apparently I'm not supposed to "generate" for now and should wait for the client to get all the blocks LOL


----------



## entropy13 (Apr 30, 2011)

120 Mh/s using deepbit.net, RPC Miner (CUDA), should I use a different miner? (GTX 570)

LOL Things are so slow here, considering it's running right now LOL


EDIT: Wrong conversion, that was just 12 Mh/s. Right now it's 60Mh/s. So should I still switch miners?
EDIT2: Nah, AMD GPUs are just better. Gotta wait for the time that I'll be able to get my Acer PC with a 4870 to compensate...lol


----------



## AphexDreamer (Apr 30, 2011)

Get the GUI Miner as well. All the links and info required to set this up should be at the top of this page or on the bottom of the last.


----------



## entropy13 (Apr 30, 2011)

Well I got it to 120-128 Mh/s at least, with some OC. At stock it's 108-114 Mh/s. Maybe the two laptops could help later LOL


----------



## matteumayo (Apr 30, 2011)

$3.1800/btc! :d


----------



## paulharrison123 (Apr 30, 2011)

Just started this a few days ago, BTC loves my 6990


----------



## qu4k3r (Apr 30, 2011)

paul:
are you running both cards 6990+570?
if yes, which card/driver did you install first?


----------



## paulharrison123 (Apr 30, 2011)

Nope, was doing for a single vantage run but the 570 is now pending and boxed up ready to go! 

I installed the amd drivers first when i got physx hack to work


----------



## entropy13 (Apr 30, 2011)

The two laptops weren't much help, just added 3 MH/s (1.8 MH/s and 1.2 MH/s).


----------



## n-ster (Apr 30, 2011)

tbh, mining with 57XX or 67XX or better is really the minimum I would mine with. cpu is out of the question, even if electricity would have been free


----------



## matteumayo (May 1, 2011)

SHIT!

CoinCard got shutdown!

How the hell else am I supposed to make money???


----------



## n-ster (May 1, 2011)

really? well just do bitcoin-otc if you can be bothered


----------



## matteumayo (May 1, 2011)

n-ster said:


> really? well just do bitcoin-otc if you can be bothered



Do you know of any other automated BTC trading system?


----------



## de.das.dude (May 1, 2011)

wow. what is this?
is it really tru that you can convert bitcoins to money? im too poor to loose anything in experimenting LOL.


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 1, 2011)

de.das.dude said:


> wow. what is this?
> is it really tru that you can convert bitcoins to money? im too poor to loose anything in experimenting LOL.



Yes, very true. Only way you could lose money is via your electric bill due to slightly higher use of electricity from running your GPU all day and all night. 

Man that sucks CoinCard is out. That site was great and easy! 

Why did Paypal suspend their account? Anyways hope they get back up once I have collected more coins.

Also you think it would be a good idea to buy bitcoins when they are cheap and sell them later for more when they are high? Any risks?


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (May 1, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Also you think it would be a good idea to buy bitcoins when they are cheap and sell them later for more when they are high? Any risks?



No point in doing that if you are going to mine.  Mining presents little to no risk, you might be out $50 if bitcoins fails.  However, buying a ton and selling later, well maybe bitcoins get banned by the US government, then you get screwed.


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 1, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> No point in doing that if you are going to mine.  Mining presents little to no risk, you might be out $50 if bitcoins fails.  However, buying a ton and selling later, well maybe bitcoins get banned by the US government, then you get screwed.



I don't have to buy a ton. 

If I just buy 20 bitcoins when they are low for like $15 and then sell them when they are high for $60, well that their is a $45 profit with a risk of $15. 

I'd like to try it, but since CoinCard looks like it will be down since paypal cut him off I'm not sure I will be able too atm.


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (May 1, 2011)

Paypal cutting of a person who buys bitcoins is not a good sign at all.  They must have a reason for this.


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 1, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Paypal cutting of a person who buys bitcoins is not a good sign at all.  They must have a reason for this.



Yeah. They finally recognized Bitcoin as an ecurrency. 

Thats the exact reason right there. 

Paypal originally had said it was ok for him to have the site and conduct the business he was doing. But later they said that the people that said it was ok for him to do it were not authorized to give the ok.

Man.. BS is everywhere..


----------



## entropy13 (May 1, 2011)

I have 0.28 BTC now 

I think I got that for around 7-10 hours in total, spread in two days, I think?


----------



## de.das.dude (May 2, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Yes, very true. Only way you could lose money is via your electric bill due to slightly higher use of electricity from running your GPU all day and all night.
> 
> Man that sucks CoinCard is out. That site was great and easy!
> 
> ...





PVTCaboose1337 said:


> No point in doing that if you are going to mine.  Mining presents little to no risk, you might be out $50 if bitcoins fails.  However, buying a ton and selling later, well maybe bitcoins get banned by the US government, then you get screwed.



yes but first we need to observe the rise and fall of its value. and we need to find out what parameters determine the value. if you need help i can help you.




AphexDreamer said:


> I don't have to buy a ton.
> 
> If I just buy 20 bitcoins when they are low for like $15 and then sell them when they are high for $60, well that their is a $45 profit with a risk of $15.
> 
> I'd like to try it, but since CoinCard looks like it will be down since paypal cut him off I'm not sure I will be able too atm.


thigs should stable out first before we make any serious investment. for the time being its okay i guess to deal with investments of 20$



PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Paypal cutting of a person who buys bitcoins is not a good sign at all.  They must have a reason for this.



True. but it thing its mostly about Paypal making a share out of the equation. and looks like paypal aint happy with what its getting. 

(im an indian, so making business is in my genes LOL)


----------



## Dala (May 2, 2011)

Anyone interested in some bitcoin gambling?

Certain payout(insert 1BTC, recieve 2BTC after a while):
http://sldoubler.com/?id=145

Uncertain payout (49% chance your bet will become doubled):
http://doubletrouble.bitcoinbet.com/


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 2, 2011)

Dala said:


> Anyone interested in some bitcoin gambling?
> 
> Certain payout(insert 1BTC, recieve 2BTC after a while):
> http://sldoubler.com/?id=145
> ...



Anyone have info on this? Trust worthy?

EDIT:Some have called it a ponzi scheme other say its just gamble. You get .20 bitcoins for referring someone who uses the link with your ID number. 

http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=5387.20

More info there ^^^

Info on double trouble http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=2882.0


----------



## Dala (May 2, 2011)

Yup, i made 4 BTC on the double trouble, guess i got really lucky. Won't dare to tryit again though, seems really risky when you only mine with a few gpu's.

Oh right, i'll post my setup.
1x Ati 5770 512mb @850/1000 183Mhash/s
1x Ati 5770 1024mb @850/1200 183Mhash/s
And a friend who owes me money mines with his:
1x Ati 5770 1024mb @Stock 155Mhash (thinks he needs to upgrade/downgrade the ati stream)

Will soon invest in a 5850 using the money i've earned. You gotta love bitcoin!


----------



## de.das.dude (May 2, 2011)

umm.. can someone help me set this up?? thank you!
i downloaded it and installed. now i have selected the generate bitcoins option from settings. now what?


----------



## n-ster (May 2, 2011)

ill set anyone up remotely, just pm me. i hate making guides lol


----------



## de.das.dude (May 2, 2011)

n-ster said:


> ill set anyone up remotely, just pm me. i hate making guides lol



lol i figured it out. thanks anyway.


okay, im stuck with the GPU setting up
nothing is happening. a cmd prmt has opened though.
its saying wrong username or password


----------



## n-ster (May 2, 2011)

use phoenix miner, much faster, actually, the newer version of m0mchil is the same speed I think, I'm comparing right now

pheonix a a bit faster and does not have any problems with my crossfire (m0mchill does)


----------



## de.das.dude (May 2, 2011)

n-ster said:


> use phoenix miner, much faster, actually, the newer version of m0mchil is the same speed I think, I'm comparing right now
> 
> pheonix a a bit faster and does not have any problems with my crossfire (m0mchill does)



linky?


----------



## n-ster (May 2, 2011)

im doing 600 Mh/s with 2 6870s http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6458.0


----------



## de.das.dude (May 2, 2011)

NVM i figured this batch file out. had to write another batch file of my own though.


----------



## de.das.dude (May 2, 2011)

i have a total hash rate of 9500
GPU 2800 and CPU @ 6700(OC'd 3500Mhz and NB at 2500MHz)


----------



## n-ster (May 2, 2011)

oh god thats slow.... its not really worth mining with your hardware

my cpu alone does 20 000 kh/s (20Mh/s). not efficient so I don't use it


----------



## entropy13 (May 2, 2011)

That's not a good rate. Are you using OpenCL for your GPU? You should have 10k at least for that.


----------



## de.das.dude (May 2, 2011)

i know  my GPU aint showing active at all. its idle. and i got DDR2 RAM, that must explain the slow performance of the Phenom II 945. its at 3500MHz already for the love of God!


LOL looks like i had the wrong device selected. now im getting 25000khash/s


----------



## entropy13 (May 2, 2011)

de.das.dude said:


> i know  my GPU aint showing active at all. its idle. and i got DDR2 RAM, that must explain the slow performance of the Phenom II 945. its at 3500MHz already for the love of God!
> 
> LOL looks like i had the wrong device selected. now im getting 25000khash/s



GPUs are really better than CPUs in Bitcoin. You should be using an OpenCL miner. GPU usage should be 99% (well in my case it never reaches 100% - I'm using a CUDA miner which you can't use for obvious reasons).

25 MH/s? Good enough I guess considering your card. It is a 4650 right?


----------



## de.das.dude (May 2, 2011)

entropy13 said:


> GPUs are really better than CPUs in Bitcoin. You should be using an OpenCL miner. GPU usage should be 99% (well in my case it never reaches 100% - I'm using a CUDA miner which you can't use for obvious reasons).
> 
> 25 MH/s? Good enough I guess considering your card. It is a 4650 right?



yeah. mine is at 99%. its good. enuf. YAY!


----------



## huayra.agera (May 2, 2011)

hi guys! just started with Slush's pool and am just wondering how do I transfer my earned bitcoins to my wallet? Seems a silly question but the only info on the site is a "Send Treshold" which originally is 1.0 BTC before it is sent. Is that automatic? There is a payout history. I changed the threshold to 0.5 thinking it will be sent to my wallet directly (I now have .58+ BTC confirmed) but that seems to be not the case as under my payout history is "0". Any help would be very much appreciated.


----------



## de.das.dude (May 2, 2011)

doesnt pool mean that your earnings are shared?


----------



## n-ster (May 2, 2011)

yes. instead of having 50 BTC every 20.83 days, you get 0.1 BTC per hour! (- pool fees)


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 2, 2011)

I'm currently getting .12-.13 bitcoins per hour, in Slushes pool.


----------



## pantherx12 (May 2, 2011)

Is polcbm still the way forward in terms of mining?

And has the installation/set up process been stream lined at all?

Last time I couldn't get GPU mining set up.


----------



## matteumayo (May 3, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Is polcbm still the way forward in terms of mining?
> 
> And has the installation/set up process been stream lined at all?
> 
> Last time I couldn't get GPU mining set up.



Install ATI Stream SDK 2.1 and then look for "poclbm Gui miner"

It's a GUI version and it's extremely easy to use.


----------



## pantherx12 (May 3, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Install ATI Stream SDK 2.1 and then look for "poclbm Gui miner"
> 
> It's a GUI version and it's extremely easy to use.




Cool cheers, last time I think I had the console version.


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 3, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> Is polcbm still the way forward in terms of mining?
> 
> And has the installation/set up process been stream lined at all?
> 
> Last time I couldn't get GPU mining set up.



GUI Miner 

Makes things way easier.


----------



## matteumayo (May 3, 2011)

This may sound stupid but would it be possible to use the GUI miner to mine for two different pools at once?

EDIT: Holy crap, just added '-v -w128' to my "Extra Flags" part of the GUI miner and am getting ~280m/hash instead of my usual ~220!

Use this if you have a 5xxx card!


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 3, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> This may sound stupid but would it be possible to use the GUI miner to mine for two different pools at once?
> 
> EDIT: Holy crap, just added '-v -w128' to my "Extra Flags" part of the GUI miner and am getting ~280m/hash instead of my usual ~220!
> 
> Use this if you have a 5xxx card!



I know, where have you been lol.

Getting 364 m/hash.

And I haven't tried mining for several pools at once. You can probably do it like one GPU for one pool and another GPU for another pool but I doubt you'll be able to have one GPU mine for two or more pools at once.


----------



## de.das.dude (May 3, 2011)

the calculator says i need 121 days or 3 months to get 25$


----------



## n-ster (May 3, 2011)

phoenix miner 1.4 is best


----------



## huayra.agera (May 3, 2011)

Hi Guys! Where do you guys sell your bitcoins in exchange for $s now with CoinCard gone?


----------



## huayra.agera (May 3, 2011)

n-ster said:


> phoenix miner 1.4 is best



Hi! How did you setup the Command File for Phoenix 1.4? I created a batch file with this:
start /DC:\Phoenix\phoenix http://username.worker:password@mining.bitcoin.cz:8332/ -k poclbm VECTORS BFI_INT FASTLOOP AGGRESSION=7

Is this correct? What I get is my browser will open then download a file. Couldn't get this to work. Hope you can help me out. Thanks in advanced!


----------



## n-ster (May 3, 2011)

start /DC:\bitcoin phoenix.exe -u http://youruser:yourpass@deepbit.net:8332/ -k poclbm DEVICE=0 VECTORS BFI_INT AGGRESSION=9 fastloop

or take fastloop out and put aggression 11


----------



## huayra.agera (May 3, 2011)

n-ster said:


> start /DC:\bitcoin phoenix.exe -u http://youruser:yourpass@deepbit.net:8332/ -k poclbm DEVICE=0 VECTORS BFI_INT AGGRESSION=9 fastloop
> 
> or take fastloop out and put aggression 11



Finally got it! Thanks for your help. Based on my results, I get better Mhash/s with the GUIMiner @ 230-250 Mhash/s with a 6850 at 1000/1000.  Around 2.5 Bitcoins in 3 days. Not bad with Slush's pool. 

How do you trade your bitcoins to $$$ now?


----------



## n-ster (May 3, 2011)

I use bitcoin-otc, too tired to explain that to you now though lol

Try lowering your mem clock to something along the lines of 330-350 with MSI Afterburner

http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4292.0

Your Mh/s will surely go up


----------



## huayra.agera (May 3, 2011)

n-ster said:


> I use bitcoin-otc, too tired to explain that to you now though lol
> 
> Try lowering your mem clock to something along the lines of 330-350 with MSI Afterburner
> 
> ...



Thanks for that! It did increase Mhash to 254 Mhash/s @ 1004/300. No problem mate, I'll do my research then.


----------



## paulharrison123 (May 3, 2011)

anothe vote for Bitcoin-otc, made 2 successfull transactions over the last 2 days easily on there, once you get your GPG authenitcation set up it is a very easy system to use


----------



## matteumayo (May 3, 2011)

So how does B-otc work?

Is it automated or do you actually have to wait for someone to buy your coins?


----------



## paulharrison123 (May 3, 2011)

Its like a stock market, you talk to people in IRC and agree a price then proceed with how you want to do business  - easy once you get the hang of it.


----------



## huayra.agera (May 4, 2011)

What other flags do you input to the miner aside from -v -w128 and -f60 for more Mhash/s?
P.S. for a 6850.


----------



## n-ster (May 4, 2011)

-f 0 if you arent using your comp


----------



## huayra.agera (May 4, 2011)

n-ster said:


> -f 0 if you arent using your comp


Increased around 4MHash/s. Thanks for the tip! I got to talk to BitCoinExchange from the Bitcoin forums (http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6223.40) and he seems to be a credible person to deal with in terms of exchanging BTC to like Paypal, LR and other more. He said that his rate is 7.5-8% depending on the market. I got a quote for 10 BTC =  26.75$ Paypal. Do you think it's a reasonable offer?


----------



## matteumayo (May 4, 2011)

huayra.agera said:


> Increased around 4MHash/s. Thanks for the tip! I got to talk to BitCoinExchange from the Bitcoin forums (http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6223.40) and he seems to be a credible person to deal with in terms of exchanging BTC to like Paypal, LR and other more. He said that his rate is 7.5-8% depending on the market. I got a quote for 10 BTC =  26.75$ Paypal. Do you think it's a reasonable offer?



Well even though you may not notice the ~10% take for 10btc, at higher sales offers it might seem like way too much.

Try and test it first, maybe he could put up a site or something so it's easier to trade. 

I just saw his topic.

Seems legit.


----------



## entropy13 (May 4, 2011)

Anyone there willing to give a bitcoin for free? LOL


----------



## huayra.agera (May 4, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Well even though you may not notice the ~10% take for 10btc, at higher sales offers it might seem like way too much.
> 
> Try and test it first, maybe he could put up a site or something so it's easier to trade.
> 
> ...



Agree with you. Am just waiting for my 10 BTC mine. The only advantage I can see is it's direct to my Paypal and I find that convenient. Maybe I'll try negotiating terms . If I'm not mistaken his posted rated on the thread was around 3-4% that's why I wondered where the 7-8% "charge" came from. I'll keep you guys posted.


----------



## huayra.agera (May 4, 2011)

Any thoughts on the best mining pool? Basically the one the gives more BTC.


----------



## paulharrison123 (May 4, 2011)

deepbit mine is what I use, has served me and my 6990 well, I cannot stress how easy once you get the hang of bitcoin-otc is - and you dont have to pay any fees, and can thrash out a price with potential buyers, makes it much more fun too.

Have already done 3 successfull trades on there! - Come find me ph123uk


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 4, 2011)

Well I"m registed with bitcoin-otc

Maybe we can start conducting trade offers here on TPU?
Or is that against the rules?

I go by Nonlin so we can just do trades on the IRC.


----------



## Easy Rhino (May 4, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Well I"m registed with bitcoin-otc
> 
> Maybe we can start conducting trade offers here on TPU?
> Or is that against the rules?
> ...



if you keep it to PM that is fine. this thread is for technical stuff, remember.


----------



## n-ster (May 4, 2011)

huayra.agera said:


> Increased around 4MHash/s. Thanks for the tip! I got to talk to BitCoinExchange from the Bitcoin forums (http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6223.40) and he seems to be a credible person to deal with in terms of exchanging BTC to like Paypal, LR and other more. He said that his rate is 7.5-8% depending on the market. I got a quote for 10 BTC =  26.75$ Paypal. Do you think it's a reasonable offer?



He's legit but that is outrageous exchange rate

Current exchange rate is about 3.48~3.50$ so 10 BTC would be AT LEAST 34$

I'd understand 32$ for 10 BTC but any lower is plain stealing lol.. 3.5/3.2= 9.X%


----------



## huayra.agera (May 5, 2011)

n-ster said:


> He's legit but that is outrageous exchange rate
> 
> Current exchange rate is about 3.48~3.50$ so 10 BTC would be AT LEAST 34$
> 
> I'd understand 32$ for 10 BTC but any lower is plain stealing lol.. 3.5/3.2= 9.X%



Thought so. Maybe I'll try bitcoin-otc. Is it required that I have IRQ? Haven't read the guide that extensively yet, please forgive me, lol


----------



## n-ster (May 5, 2011)

whats IRQ? 

I use xchat2.


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 5, 2011)

n-ster said:


> whats IRQ?
> 
> I use xchat2.



Yeah I use that too.


----------



## matteumayo (May 5, 2011)

Could somebody give me a quick run-down on the process of selling on bitcoin-otc?

Not prices, etc. (can't do that in this thread) just the steps involved to get to the point where you can sell.

It would be a big help for me.


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 5, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Could somebody give me a quick run-down on the process of selling on bitcoin-otc?
> 
> Not prices, etc. (can't do that in this thread) just the steps involved to get to the point where you can sell.
> 
> It would be a big help for me.



Basically you join the IRC and put up offers via commands like 

;;sell 5 btc at 3.25 USD

That would sell 5 Bitcons at 2.35 US Dollars (Can be anything). 

Your offer gets posted and you wait for someone to PM you or contact you to conduct the business. 

This is where trust comes to play. They implemented a security feature and a trust system. 

This is where you have to follow the step by step guide to setting up GPG and register your self in the Client. 

Once your all setup and authenticated you'll have an encrypted key that only you will know. Using that key you "Login" to the IRC and have your own Trust Stats. This way registered people have a trust rating. Everytime you trade with someone, you input a command like ;;rate (Insert name here) and rate them form -10 to 10. 1 being the norm for a good trader and the negative for how bad they were. 

That is really the jist of it. Again if you read this http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/Using_bitcoin-otc
and follow its step by step guide you'll get it up and running. 

Main Site http://bitcoin-otc.com/


----------



## n-ster (May 6, 2011)

note the 3.25$ is PER BTC


----------



## de.das.dude (May 6, 2011)

how much khash/s do you need to start making bitcoins?
im making 30Mhash/s
(i is poor)


Also, just just thinking of this config:-
2 X 5770 (Rs. 7500*2 = Rs 15K)
+ cheapo amd athlon X2 250 (15K + 3K = Rs 18K)
+ cheap cfx mobo any options?
+ 2GB ram (pretty cheap)
and 500W power supply.
this is all fit in Rs 30K.

now only if someone were to finance this... how much would be the rate for btc collection?


----------



## matteumayo (May 6, 2011)

de.das.dude said:


> how much khash/s do you need to start making bitcoins?
> im making 30Mhash/s
> (i is poor)
> 
> ...



I think 2x5770 is ~340-380m/hash?

Correct me if I'm wrong anyone.


----------



## de.das.dude (May 6, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> I think 2x5770 is ~280-320m/hash?
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong anyone.



i saw you used a 5770 before, can you tell me the rate you were gennerating coiins? and what app you used to run the GPU?


----------



## Dala (May 6, 2011)

One 5770 generates 180M/hash with newest poclbm miner using the "-v -w128 -f 0" settings. Two generates 360M/hash. Not the best cards to use, but if you can get them cheaply, go for it!


----------



## n-ster (May 6, 2011)

I've noticed that even though the newer miners seem to have huge improvements, my daily output is only SLIGHTLY better


----------



## Dala (May 6, 2011)

n-ster said:


> I've noticed that even though the newer miners seem to have huge improvements, my daily output is only SLIGHTLY better



That's expected, since the difficulty is skyrocketing with so many new people mining. You're gonna have to get a/few more stronger and more power efficient card/s if you want to keep this whole thing worthwhile. I just ordered a 5830 with money i mined  Will make a great addition to the current cards.


----------



## n-ster (May 6, 2011)

Dala said:


> That's expected, since the difficulty is skyrocketing with so many new people mining. You're gonna have to get a/few more stronger and more power efficient card/s if you want to keep this whole thing worthwhile. I just ordered a 5830 with money i mined  Will make a great addition to the current cards.



My comparison was on the same difficulty.

I found out that when not in use, the improvement is much better than when the computer is in use. (ie: smaller drop % wise with older poclbm). BUT in the newer miner it SHOWS higher framerate then I get in the pool. Maybe I'm just unlucky though


----------



## matteumayo (May 8, 2011)

Is the value of BTC going to increase at all?

I've heard some people say it may get up to $15/btc soon, but I just don't see it happening...

However, I'm not selling any time soon because if it does increase a lot, I don't want to miss out.


----------



## n-ster (May 8, 2011)

I have about 375 BTC. I was being pushed to sell ever since we hit 1.8$ etc, but I decided to keep. Then I heard about it possibly dropping to 2.5$ ish that was supposed to happen a few days ago, but I didn't believe it and I kept it. It is at a very interesting price-point now (3.7) . I've noticed there are even more miners now, and I'm hoping after the difficulty increase, we hit and go over 4$, possibly up to 4.40$.

At around that price I'm shorting something like 125 BTC, keeping 250 ish for later. If BTC falls considerably after, I'll invest the money I got from my initial sell to buy back 100~150 BTC in the 2.XX range, maybe @ 3$


----------



## entropy13 (May 8, 2011)

375 BTC?

Right now I have 0.38 BTC.


----------



## theJesus (May 8, 2011)

I can't be arsed to read this whole thread, but I read the first two pages of this and a fair amount of the Compute4Cash thread.  Is this totally legit, like no real risk?  I'm not concerned about cost of hardware or power usage.


----------



## n-ster (May 8, 2011)

entropy13 said:


> 375 BTC?
> 
> Right now I have 0.38 BTC.



mine with an ATI GPU from the 5000 series or higher and that will change quickly  If you pay for elect, maybe mining is a huge LOSS for you 



theJesus said:


> I can't be arsed to read this whole thread, but I read the first two pages of this and a fair amount of the Compute4Cash thread.  Is this totally legit, like no real risk?  I'm not concerned about cost of hardware or power usage.



Yes this is legit. If you want to know more about it and about cryptocurrency and the whole shabang, shoot me a PM

Think of bitcoins like grams of gold. it can drastically go up or down, though more tendency to go up. Also note that EVERYTIME there is a rise in $/BTC, there is a peak from where it falls a little and stabilizes before the next up or down move. The factor that influence $/BTC is the volume of trading, the difficulty, the number of people actively mining, the total hashrate of the network, and what services are available using bitcoins (this also includes MT.Gox). You can compare each aspect with something that affects gold but I'm lazy

Random:

PCI BUS speed does not matter, so using a PCI or PCI-E x1 slot should not matter (you can use converters/risers). Also ATI users read about mem speeds from my thread here: http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4292.0

ATI 5000 users are better off with SDK 2.1 and CAT 10.XX (forgot which is the best) and 6000 users are better off with SDK 2.4 and CAT 11.4


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 8, 2011)

Hmm I'm getting connection issues with the GUI Miner.

It will mine for like 10 sec and then go back to saying "Connection Problems". 

Nothings change in windows as far as I can remember/tell.


Hmmm....


----------



## n-ster (May 8, 2011)

What pool? sometimes pools and be down


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 8, 2011)

n-ster said:


> What pool? sometimes pools and be down



Yeah but its like on and off. Slushes Pool. 

Its kinda of like this guys issue. 

http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=3878.340


----------



## n-ster (May 8, 2011)

For now idk and I'm tired, but for a temp fix, try using poclbm the normal version or phoenix 1.4


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 8, 2011)

n-ster said:


> For now idk and I'm tired, but for a temp fix, try using poclbm the normal version or phoenix 1.4



Yeah I'm tired too. Just got back from work and I'll just have it run in its on/off state for tonight.


----------



## n-ster (May 8, 2011)

Slush is apparently having problems with his pool


P.S: 1 post from 6500


----------



## theJesus (May 8, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Yes this is legit. If you want to know more about it and about cryptocurrency and the whole shabang, shoot me a PM
> 
> Think of bitcoins like grams of gold. it can drastically go up or down, though more tendency to go up. Also note that EVERYTIME there is a rise in $/BTC, there is a peak from where it falls a little and stabilizes before the next up or down move. The factor that influence $/BTC is the volume of trading, the difficulty, the number of people actively mining, the total hashrate of the network, and what services are available using bitcoins (this also includes MT.Gox). You can compare each aspect with something that affects gold but I'm lazy


Thanks, PM incoming


----------



## entropy13 (May 8, 2011)

theJesus said:


> Thanks, PM incoming



I'm not recommending this to you though. My GTX 570 is being spanked by mid-range AMD cards in Mhash/s.


----------



## theJesus (May 8, 2011)

entropy13 said:


> I'm not recommending this to you though. My GTX 570 is being spanked by mid-range AMD cards in Mhash/s.


I'm not paying electric and I leave my PC on all the time anyway, so even if I don't make as much as other people, it's still extra money in my pocket


----------



## huayra.agera (May 8, 2011)

I just checked Mt.Gox and the highest bid was at 3.9$! Wow! I think the 1BTC:15$ prediction can't be that far in the coming months.


----------



## matteumayo (May 8, 2011)

huayra.agera said:


> I just checked Mt.Gox and the highest bid was at 3.9$! Wow! I think the 1BTC:15$ prediction can't be that far in the coming months.



I sure hope it does rise that much! 

I'm sure from a buyer's perspective that could be bad, but I haven't had experience buying any BTC so I wouldn't know.


----------



## theJesus (May 8, 2011)

I'm kinda wondering why anybody would buy BTC, except to hope that it gains value and resell it (like stocks).


----------



## de.das.dude (May 8, 2011)

as mentioned, it does increase in value.


----------



## n-ster (May 9, 2011)

theJesus said:


> I'm kinda wondering why anybody would buy BTC, except to hope that it gains value and resell it (like stocks).



They do that, and some are hoping it becomes as accepted as Paypal and be able to buy stuff with bitcoins (no transaction fees whatsoever).

Others support the idea of crypto currency.

Others who found BTC early, bought/mined as much as they could when it was at 5 cents per BTC and now are storing their 300K BTC + until it gets to like 10~15$. The lucky bastards are mllionaires just thanks to that


----------



## theJesus (May 9, 2011)

n-ster said:


> They do that, and some are hoping it becomes as accepted as Paypal and be able to buy stuff with bitcoins (no transaction fees whatsoever).
> 
> Others support the idea of crypto currency.
> 
> Others who found BTC early, bought/mined as much as they could when it was at 5 cents per BTC and now are storing their 300K BTC + until it gets to like 10~15$. The lucky bastards are mllionaires just thanks to that


Damn, wish I had found it that early


----------



## entropy13 (May 9, 2011)




----------



## n-ster (May 9, 2011)

entropy13 said:


> http://img.techpowerup.org/110509/Untitled-2886.jpg



I never use GUI miners  stupid stuff like that can happen lol


----------



## huayra.agera (May 10, 2011)

It's now $4.3 per BTC! Just wow!


----------



## n-ster (May 10, 2011)

Yea someone just bought 50K$ in BTC


----------



## huayra.agera (May 10, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Yea someone just bought 50K$ in BTC



So that's how it is? I think I read a thread about a 45K $ LR being held by Mt.Gox at the Bitcoin forums, is that related to this occurence?


----------



## entropy13 (May 10, 2011)

huayra.agera said:


> It's now $4.3 per BTC! Just wow!



That's great! That means I now have $1.72 worth of BTC!


----------



## huayra.agera (May 10, 2011)

The high was at 4.99$. Things are moving so fast in terms of the value of Bitcoin going up. In just like 5 months right?


----------



## n-ster (May 10, 2011)

huayra.agera said:


> So that's how it is? I think I read a thread about a 45K $ LR being held by Mt.Gox at the Bitcoin forums, is that related to this occurence?



dunno

What matters is not the high, what matters is what the people will set the price to. atm 4.30$ seems to be it. This isn't the greatest thing for bitcoin, it has tto stabilize before anyone serious considers it. and 50K in a 30 Million dollar economy should NOT make such a difference


----------



## DarkOCean (May 10, 2011)

The thing is that difficulty has raised again with 50%.


----------



## huayra.agera (May 10, 2011)

It seems I'm a little bit obsessed with the rates, it's now 1 BTC = 5$. =)


----------



## n-ster (May 10, 2011)

DarkOCean said:


> The thing is that difficulty has raised again with 50%.



yes butthats to be expected, thee profit rate of BTC is too high for its own good atm


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 11, 2011)

Guys should I just keep saving my bitcoins? 

I'm really tempted to cash some out.


----------



## entropy13 (May 11, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Guys should I just keep saving my bitcoins?
> 
> I'm really tempted to cash some out.



Willing to give me some?


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 11, 2011)

entropy13 said:


> Willing to give me some?



Classic


----------



## entropy13 (May 11, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Classic



I now have 0.46 BTC btw.


----------



## AphexDreamer (May 11, 2011)

entropy13 said:


> I now have 0.46 BTC btw.



I remember my first BTC.


----------



## huayra.agera (May 11, 2011)

Maybe let's cashout when it's stable @ 1:10. (Wishing) =)


----------



## n-ster (May 11, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Guys should I just keep saving my bitcoins?
> 
> I'm really tempted to cash some out.



You can, BTC is very unstable atm... It could rise to incredible highs like 10~15$, or have a HUGE correction down to 1$. Before this guy bought so much BTC, I was sure that from 3.9$ we were going to go down around 3$, so I sold 130 3.865$ BTC right before the sudden rise  I have 255 BTC left, so imana probably sell off at least 55 BTC, maybe up to a 100.

If you have time today, it is time to monitor BTC VERY closely.of my 380 BTC, almost 200 BTC I mined, 80 I bought at 0.8$ each, and 100 I made by profit of buying and selling at the right time.

How much BTC do you have? it may be wise to slowly sell. If the BTC is not that much money to you though, to maximize profits, selling at the start of a downtrend may yield most money, but would be risky and you'd have to monitor very closely. Else it is more subjective. Go to https://mtgox.com/trade/history and click depth of market. Then look at the difference between Ask and Bid. When there is a big difference, it is a danger zone, as anything could happen. Unlikely atm though, is that when that happens, people stabilize the prices in between the 2, that rarely ever happens. More likely is that there is a temporaary fall and then back up, some people panic when there is a sudden price drop (some guy sells 1 BTC at the highest bid and mt.gox drops by alot = Panic), and then noone else does that. most of the time the "back up" is a little lower than the origin.  Another possibility is that a buyer buys up all the low value asks. If the lowest ask is 6$, but there is only 100 BTC for sale in total between 6$ and 6.25$, and then at 6.25 there is 500, chances are a buyer will buy up to 6.25 and leave the 6.25 resistance alone. In a big gap of Bid/Ask, If there is a big resistance in the bids (high number of BTC) then chances are prices rise, and vice versa (if Ask has a high resistance, prices usually fall)

I just woke up and I'm babbling, no idea if I'm making sense, but hopefully I helped someone xD As you can see, it seems that the buyer who bought all that BTC is selling at 10$ (edit: it disappeared  it reappeared!)... He's been trying to push it to there and make huge profits. as of 10:09 AM EST, prices seem stable, highest bid is 5.82X, and lowest ask 5.9, higher resistance in general in the Bid, so for now it seems we are on route to 6$. Also watch out for psychological resistances (ie 5$, 6$) as around those points,volatility is higher usually. From 6$ we may shoot to 6.50$, or drop back down to 5$~5.6$ for example. It seems it will not be as volatile as that for now though.

*Sorry this is very long, but my thoughts are not straighten out yet *  Good luck though!

P.S: I may sell a few BTC, but not much atm, and wait to see what happens. Oh, and I remember my first 50 BTC (block)  back in Febuary 

EDIT: so I think I will put for sell a few (at least 50 for now) in the 5.945~6$ area, just to have a bit of safety, the 6$ resistance (over 1000 BTC) is pretty high and makes me nervous

EDIT 2: Resistance is building up in the Ask region, I may just sell around 5.89$ just in case

EDIT 3: a gap is starting to form between 5.82 and 5.89.. and now it is formed  new gap of 5.8~5.9 is starting to form.... 2 small resistances are forming both on the Ask and Bid side, so the outcome will probably decide the short term trend. Now a bigger resistance has formed in the Bid side, prices may catch up to 5.89 again. 5.7~5.89 gap as appeared. We should hope there are no more panic sells as that would confirm a short term downtrend to 5.5~5.6


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## huayra.agera (May 11, 2011)

Very nice insight. I myself am already about to build a rig with 2 5850 (so affordable) to add to my 6850 rig. I computed so far and mining IS profitable atm minus all the fees and electrcity, ROI. Well I'm also hoping for prices to stabilize so that we get more control on when to cashout or buy. =)


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## n-ster (May 11, 2011)

Unfortunately, seems there is a VERY low amount of buyers now, and a downtrend seems likely. However, putting up for sell at the prices now may just accelerate the downtrend and fuck you over 

ie: if I put my 53 Ask of 5.8978 to 5.7897, then a downtrend may just happen and I won't get anything sold and value would drop. price is just too volatile and fragile right now. I'm hoping that a buyer starts buying so I can sell off some of my BTC before the potential downtrend starts

EDIT: F that, I'm gonna risk it and change my 53 BTC Ask to lower xD You can blame me if a downtrend starts

EDIT 2: good stuff, buyers have appeared  big resistance in Bid at 5.7, hoping this will push to 5.8 again. FUUUU it disappeared wtf lol I have the lowest Ask for now, hopefully I get bought  some resistance reappeared at 5.7, much needed to not fall at 5.65. and it disappeared 

EDIT: 5.66~5.79 gap formed, still hard to predict but downtrend seems to be continuing. I think our best bet is to force a bigger gap so that buyers have to raise their bids.... imana put my 53 to 5.85... So I just made a potential wider gap.... if the 5.789 Ask gets fulfilled, things will be much brighter. And ofc, a panic seller had to put a 5.75 Ask  Downtrend it seems will be accelerating. I'm now panic selling myself  probably further accelerating the downtrend. I now decided to fill the gap by 3 psychological BTCs, so that the gap seems smaller, and there i a small "staircase" to a my bigger Ask. I think the 150 is intimidating for buyers so ill split it up

EDIT: I just shorted 153 BTC as I see too muuch of a downtrend for my liking, and I'm keeping 100 BTC for a just in case prices rise high again


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## matteumayo (May 11, 2011)

Hmm I only made .1 BTC in the last 8 hours... hopefully just a fluke...

EDIT: Also are there any better pools than deepbit?

The G/hash is near 600 right now and I feel that I won't make as much because of this... on average I make .6-1.2 I'd say (every 8 hours).

*EDIT2:*

Also I need to clear something up. I get ~270 m/hash with my 5850, which averages to *0.04-0.06%* of the pool's speed.

My friend who has ~350 m/hash with a 5870 is getting *0.16-0.26%* of pool's current speed.

So even though he has less than 100 more m/hash  than me he's been getting a regular income of 3-4BTC a night.

What's going on here???


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## n-ster (May 11, 2011)

it "looks" like your making less but in reality you are making as much, but your payments are more frequent.

atm there are many small pools that are emerging with very low fees. I myself wont switch to them until they have proven their trust


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## matteumayo (May 11, 2011)

n-ster said:


> it "looks" like your making less but in reality you are making as much, but your payments are more frequent.
> 
> atm there are many small pools that are emerging with very low fees. I myself wont switch to them until they have proven their trust



Thanks for clearing that up.

Could anyone explain the weird rate my friend's getting?


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## AphexDreamer (May 11, 2011)

n-ster said:


> it "looks" like your making less but in reality you are making as much, but your payments are more frequent.
> 
> atm there are many small pools that are emerging with very low fees. I myself wont switch to them until they have proven their trust



You mine solo this whole time? I've got 20bitcoins atm. 

I've sold like 127 bitcoins so far.


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## n-ster (May 11, 2011)

no im on deepbit, not switching to smaller pools until...  sry busy atm, but matt, that seems really weird


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## huayra.agera (May 12, 2011)

I think I'll be happy if the value of BTC stabilizes at 5$. 
Seems like @nster is close to the prediction he mentioned. I just hope it does not go down to like 1:1. If it does then obviously it could be a good time to buy BTC instead of mining. Win-win I guess? If value is up then mine. Just my thoughts.


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## theJesus (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, I decided I'm not going to mining since it's summer and my room gets hot as hell.  I don't need the GPU making it even worse.

If I get a job soon, I might eventually just buy some BTC and start trading.  It's like the stock market with only one company to purchase shares of


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## de.das.dude (May 12, 2011)

theJesus said:


> Yeah, I decided I'm not going to mining since it's summer and my room gets hot as hell.  I don't need the GPU making it even worse.
> 
> If I get a job soon, I might eventually just buy some BTC and start trading.  It's like the stock market with only one company to purchase shares of



which makes it even easier.


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## matteumayo (May 12, 2011)

What the hell is going on??

In 8 hours at ~305 m/hash I barely got .1 BTC using deepbit!!!


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## n-ster (May 13, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> What the hell is going on??
> 
> In 8 hours at ~305 m/hash I barely got .1 BTC using deepbit!!!



I can come check it out on your comp through remote assistance if you wish.... give me your screenshot of Stats page in deepbit...


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## matteumayo (May 13, 2011)

n-ster said:


> I can come check it out on your comp through remote assistance if you wish.... give me your screenshot of Stats page in deepbit...









I started using BTC-Guild and got .11 in about an hour. I think I'll stay with them if things stay this productive.


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## n-ster (May 13, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> http://i.imgur.com/sjeE8.png
> 
> I started using BTC-Guild and got .11 in about an hour. I think I'll stay with them if things stay this productive.



you are supposed to get 0.07 per hour with deepbit... considering that  the pool was unlucky in the last 24 hours loomking at your SS, you are getting good numbers, its saying you got about 0.55 BTC in the last 7.67 hours which is vewry close to 0.07/hr

You were just lucky with BTC-Guild and joined when they were more lucky than usual.


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## n-ster (May 13, 2011)

Whomever has bitcoins... IMO IT IS TIME TO SELL SELL SELL

if you want to be very risky, you can still hoard, but IMO it is not worth the risk to keep them atm


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## entropy13 (May 13, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Whomever has bitcoins... IMO IT IS TIME TO SELL SELL SELL
> 
> if you want to be very risky, you can still hoard, but IMO it is not worth the risk to keep them atm



There's also the option of giving me some. I finally have 0.50 BTC.


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## huayra.agera (May 13, 2011)

I now have 2 5850s + 6850! Yummy mining rig! And right right right! It's time to sell! =)


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## n-ster (May 13, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Whomever has bitcoins... IMO IT IS TIME TO SELL SELL SELL
> 
> if you want to be very risky, you can still hoard, but IMO it is not worth the risk to keep them atm



BTC is starting to stabilize again a little, a lil less risky to keep now... still, I'm selling


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## matteumayo (May 14, 2011)

Since I don't have too many BTC, I'm keeping them for now.

I have a feeling the price will go up even more.


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## n-ster (May 14, 2011)

maybe, but I'm predicting that in the next few weeks, we will see a decline.... right now, it seems it will continue rising in the short term


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## matteumayo (May 14, 2011)

Does anybody else have the issue where deepbit's current m/hash (what you get credit for) is different from the client?

For the past two hours it has stayed under 195 m/hash, whereas my hardware is actually mining with 305 m/hash.

Anyone know how to fix this?


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## n-ster (May 14, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Does anybody else have the issue where deepbit's current m/hash (what you get credit for) is different from the client?
> 
> For the past two hours it has stayed under 195 m/hash, whereas my hardware is actually mining with 305 m/hash.
> 
> Anyone know how to fix this?



Sometimes you can have horrible luck, sometime I have 300 Mh/s with 600Mh/s power, but it shouldnt be for 2 hours

what miner do you have?


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## matteumayo (May 15, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Sometimes you can have horrible luck, sometime I have 300 Mh/s with 600Mh/s power, but it shouldnt be for 2 hours
> 
> what miner do you have?



I've been using the GUI miner (I believe it uses poclbm)


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## n-ster (May 15, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> I've been using the GUI miner (I believe it uses poclbm)



try using phoenix 1.46 or newer. I hate GUI miners for now


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## AphexDreamer (May 15, 2011)

n-ster said:


> try using phoenix 1.46 or newer. I hate GUI miners for now



Latest GUI Miner gets me 406mhashes/sec

It would have a connection problem that occurred randomly but just as randomly as it came, it left. 

n-ster do you just trade on bitcoin-otc? How do you cash in your BT?


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## n-ster (May 15, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Latest GUI Miner gets me 406mhashes/sec
> 
> It would have a connection problem that occurred randomly but just as randomly as it came, it left.
> 
> n-ster do you just trade on bitcoin-otc? How do you cash in your BT?



yea basically.... Here's an SS of my Paypal 






All from BTC. Please be careful when trading BTC, as Paypal can freeze your account if they find out your trading BTC, and people can easily scam you with disputes and chargebacks.

Trade with trusted members ONLY.I like Keefe


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## entropy13 (May 15, 2011)

n-ster said:


> yea basically.... Here's an SS of my Paypal
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/110515/Capture176.png
> 
> ...



You can have my 0.55 BTC for a (high) price


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## huayra.agera (May 15, 2011)

n-ster said:


> yea basically.... Here's an SS of my Paypal
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/110515/Capture176.png
> 
> ...



Nice one! Since February right? I just started this May 1st and have about 1/20th of what you have. I'll check by the end of the month with my 2 5850s and 1 6850 (ave 821.57 MH/s)  how much I'll earn. Your SS is inspirational, i Must say. 

It seems value has stabilised at 6.3-6.7$ per BTC lately. Should we buy? Will value go up in the coming days?


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## matteumayo (May 15, 2011)

huayra.agera said:


> Nice one! Since February right? I just started this May 1st and have about 1/20th of what you have. I'll check by the end of the month with my 2 5850s and 1 6850 (ave 821.57 MH/s)  how much I'll earn. Your SS is inspirational, i Must say.
> 
> It seems value has stabilised at 6.3-6.7$ per BTC lately. Should we buy? Will value go up in the coming days?



I think value is going to rise to $10+ soon.

We'll see


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## n-ster (May 16, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> I think value is going to rise to $10+ soon.
> 
> We'll see



If there is going to be a significant rise soon, it'll be Monday to Wednesday of next week. I think personally, that it won't hit the 8.237 at which I sold my last BTC at


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## AphexDreamer (May 18, 2011)

so the 6 series mines a little worse than the 5 series huh?

I was thinking about upgrading my 5870 to a 6970 but due to this fact I'm bit more hesitant.


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## DarkOCean (May 18, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> so the 6 series mines a little worse than the 5 series huh?
> 
> I was thinking about upgrading my 5870 to a 6970 but due to this fact I'm bit more hesitant.



Me to thats why i think i will wait till 7xxx series hit the shelves.


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## n-ster (May 18, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> so the 6 series mines a little worse than the 5 series huh?
> 
> I was thinking about upgrading my 5870 to a 6970 but due to this fact I'm bit more hesitant.



Yes, the 5870 mines better than the 6870, but not better than a 6970. It is because of the shader count IIRC. I find the 6950 unlocked to be of great value however, and the 6XXX is better in every other aspect except bitcoins and WPA or password cracking xD

7XXX will be a huge improvement over both apparently, lotsa shaders


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## meran (May 18, 2011)

please can some one learn us how to exchange coins for pay pal??


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## DarkOCean (May 18, 2011)

Difficulty has increased again with ~56% at this point its a little to hard to make any coins isn't it?


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## Boneface (May 18, 2011)

Can someone PM me on how to set this up? Would like to give try but have no idea lol


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## meran (May 18, 2011)

well i made 7 coins in the last 48 hours


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## PVTCaboose1337 (May 31, 2011)

Someone offered to pay me in bitcoins for a product on TPU (won't say who).  Was just 1 BTC but w/e.  BUT THEN:

>mfw 1 BTC = 8.8$
>mfw I find a BTC poker room
>mfw I realize I can count cards well
>mfw I win tons of BTC
>mfw I have +$200 of BTC
>mfw all this happened in 1 hour

I make more doing this than at my actual $10/hr job.


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## theJesus (May 31, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Someone offered to pay me in bitcoins for a product on TPU (won't say who).  Was just 1 BTC but w/e.  BUT THEN:
> 
> >mfw 1 BTC = 8.8$
> >mfw I find a BTC poker room
> ...


Nice!  Oh, btw, my b-day was last week >.>  *hint, hint*


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 2, 2011)

hey guys, read this. it is very eye opening and pretty much exposes what we all knew to begin with.

http://www.quora.com/Is-the-cryptocurrency-Bitcoin-a-good-idea/answer/Adam-Cohen-2


----------



## AphexDreamer (Jun 2, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> hey guys, read this. it is very eye opening and pretty much exposes what we all knew to begin with.
> 
> http://www.quora.com/Is-the-cryptocurrency-Bitcoin-a-good-idea/answer/Adam-Cohen-2



TLDR. 

I don't care if it flops. I'm making sum monies


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## erocker (Jun 2, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> TLDR.



That is going to be the downfall of society.. already is.


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## AphexDreamer (Jun 2, 2011)

erocker said:


> That is going to be the downfall of society.. already is.



No... Greed is.


----------



## wiak (Jun 2, 2011)

W1zzard said:


> i looked at this for about 30 seconds and it seems to be a get rich quick scheme for the people running it.
> 
> how many *US DOLLARS* have you been *paid* doing anything with it ? and how much did you pay to generate that income?


pretty sure the hardware you need to generate far exceeds the amount of bitcoin it generates


----------



## erocker (Jun 2, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> No... Greed is.



Touche my good man. Well, add in some ignorance for a lovely downfall soup.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jun 2, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> TLDR.
> 
> I don't care if it flops. I'm making sum monies



what an evolved mindset you have there...


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Jun 2, 2011)

I have been thinking of bitcoins as like a sort of stock.  In reality it is worth as much as others trade and sell it.  I don't see it as a currency.  Anyway, as a stock, it can grow and decrease in value, and even be worth nothing if the "company" goes bankrupt.  Overall, it WILL fail, this is not news to anyone.  The question is how FAST it will fail.  Will the government intervene and make it illegal?  Will someone sell 900000 and crash the market?  Who knows.  That 30000 sure crashed the market.  Overall, sure fun for the early adapters, but overall, if bitcoins become a legit currency, I will be surprised.  That being said, at least I made $200 off of it...  in an hour.


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## n-ster (Jun 2, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> hey guys, read this. it is very eye opening and pretty much exposes what we all knew to begin with.
> 
> http://www.quora.com/Is-the-cryptocurrency-Bitcoin-a-good-idea/answer/Adam-Cohen-2



This will be long 

LOL this is RIDICULOUS and a FAIL attempt to diss bitcoin

1. Bitcoin IS NOT free money, if you are not a miner, you don't get no Bitcoins. Your GPUs actually WORK for the bitcoins. While early adopters did get rich, this is not like a pyramid scheme at all, where the early adopters are the only focus. While it seems that the profit margin just goes down, it DOESN'T. When the BTC shot up to 3.5$+ I was doing more profit than I did in February, and when it shot up to 5.5$ and 8.3$, I did even more money.

2. We are in a society where buying stuff to the point that you owe more money than you can afford is considered normal. He is arguing the inflation is better than deflation. NO it is not. Sure you are going to want to keep the BTC more than the USD, but all that does is encourage you to not over spend! He argues that noone will want to sell them: THERE ARE MORE BTC THAT ARE SPENT THAN THERE ARE MADE per day. Miners also sell there BTC, even though they know prices go up. GOLD's value usually goes up, does everyone hoard gold to never spend again? No, NOONE WANTS A CURRENCY THEY CAN'T SPEND, all the people who will invest in BTC will spend some BTC at some point. Plus, demand for BTC WILL NOT suddenly reach that of the USD or something, as BTC has no country. The argument that there is or will not be enough supply is ridiculous, the supply will stay the same, but the price will go up.

3. So stocks are worthless and a scam? Again, people will still use other currencies, as BTC is not accepted to pay the bills. How do people do that? Sell BTC for USD or Yen or wtv. Other people who want to buy BTC pay in those currencies. A MacbookPro is not like a stock or a currency. Say I live in Canada and I only got USD sitting in a bank doing nothing, but I gotta pay the bills, what do I do? Do I sell my MBP and my clothes? NO, I FREAKING EXCHANGE THE USD TO CAD! Where? IN FREAKING CURRENCY EXCHANGES! If I don't have enough money to pay the 5000$ bill, but I have 50000$ in stocks, do I sell my car to pay the bill? NO, ya sell your stocks. Where CAN you sell your stocks? IN FREAKING EXCHANGES! He's saying hat BTC is not a currency because it does not MAGICALLY transform into other currencies, you actually have to go in exchanges, IH NOES!

4. The beauty of Bitcoin is that a very small amount of things can go wrong compared to any other currency, as it is DECENTRALISED, and technically sound. There are no banks, you own your own "Bank" with only your own money in it with BTC. The probability of an exploit found in BTC is so low because of it being open-source and everyone making sure everything is safe. It uses SHA-256 which is great too. If 80% of people stop mining, the same supply is created, so BTC is the stablest currency I know of. If BTC crashes, it'll just go back up 

Conclusion: Don't fucking diss my BTC 

I think of BTC as a middleground between gold, currency and stocks, but wtv you consider what BTC is, it is certainly not a scam, nor does it have many flaws.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jun 2, 2011)

i think the authors point is that it is a scam because the early adopters have the most to gain since the value is purposefully deflated over time until it reaches 21 million bitcoins. once it reaches 21 million coins then what happens to people who were late adopters? they have coins worth less than those who adopted early on.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Jun 2, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> i think the authors point is that it is a scam because the early adopters have the most to gain since the value is purposefully deflated over time until it reaches 21 million bitcoins. once it reaches 21 million coins then what happens to people who were late adopters? they have coins worth less than those who adopted early on.



Hmm not sure what either one of you guys are saying but just goinig of this post. 

The coins have the same value for everyone. And the value has been increasing since I started and I don't even consider myself an early adopter.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jun 2, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> And the value has been increasing since I started and I don't even consider myself an early adopter.



if the value of the coins is known to be increasing then why spend the bitcoins you have? you would keep the bitcoins longer since their value is increasing.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Jun 2, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> if the value of the coins is known to be increasing then why spend the bitcoins you have? you would keep the bitcoins longer since their value is increasing.



Well it goes up and down but it reaches new highs every now and then. 
And I do save them.


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Jun 2, 2011)

n-ster said:


> 4. The beauty of Bitcoin is that a very small amount of things can go wrong compared to any other currency



Internet goes down.  You have no money.  



n-ster said:


> DECENTRALISED, and technically sound



Decentralized is a problem and conflicts with technically sound.  



n-ster said:


> The probability of an exploit found in BTC is so low



But possible.  I can't make gold.  Inb4 ALCHEMY. 



n-ster said:


> If BTC crashes, it'll just go back up



Explain.  With bullet points.  

Not trying to disprove Bitcents, but I'm pretty sure this lasts for 1 year more, tops.


----------



## matteumayo (Jun 3, 2011)

Even if BTC fails, it's a good start and a glimpse forward to a new generation of currency.

I just hope it doesn't fail.


----------



## n-ster (Jun 3, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Internet goes down.  You have no money.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would respond to this but I'm lazy atm lol I gtg sleep, but on that last one, BTC has been up for many years now, and I do not see anything that would stop in the near future

Decentralized is truly being democratic as the whole of the btc community decides what happens


----------



## matteumayo (Jun 3, 2011)

$14.48.

I can't believe my eyes!

WHATEVER YOU DO, DON'T SELL!

I believe this is a sign of things to come


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## entropy13 (Jun 3, 2011)

That's great! I now have around $7 worth of BTC


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## n-ster (Jun 3, 2011)

I only have like 14 BTC, I've stopped mining since a few few weeks, too hot in my room and it's summer lol


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## erocker (Jun 3, 2011)

matteumayo said:


> Even if BTC fails, it's a good start and a glimpse forward to a new generation of currency.



This is what I'm having a hard time understanding. Currency is based on something else that is valuable. Be it gold, or commodities, etc. What are Bitcoins based upon to give them worth?


----------



## Wrigleyvillain (Jun 3, 2011)

I don't know man. Still don't fully understand this nor do I really care to. But I can't help the feeling that someday, like Facebook, you'll wish you just never bothered with it in the first place. If you don't already, at least in the case of the latter.


----------



## THRiLL KiLL (Jun 3, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> hey guys, read this. it is very eye opening and pretty much exposes what we all knew to begin with.
> 
> http://www.quora.com/Is-the-cryptocurrency-Bitcoin-a-good-idea/answer/Adam-Cohen-2



good read.


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Jun 3, 2011)

erocker said:


> What are Bitcoins based upon to give them worth?



Magic.  



matteumayo said:


> $14.48.
> 
> I can't believe my eyes!
> 
> ...



Also, did you know how the stock market crash worked?  The stocks kept going up and up and people were like "OMG I GONNA INVEST SUCH A GOOD IDEA FREE MONIES!111!!11!"  

Then it crashed.  Bitcoin will do this, although I think it hits $50 before that happens.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 10, 2011)

I just started mining bitcoins, and i gotta say it's confusing as hell. I think i got it down though.

#1 i downloaded a gui client and signed up to a mining pool.
#2 Every time i reach 1 bit coin i will cash out for $20-25 to my paypal account.
#3 buy new hardware with the cash in paypal

It does all seem to be a bit of a ponzi scheme unless it get some major backing it seems bound to fail. but if i can cash out after a couple of weeks, i don't see how i can lose much apart from a few bucks on electricity.


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2011)

News i saw yesterday says FBI is invetigating BitCoins, as they are used for drug transactions.


Dunno the veracity of that, but it's enough that I'mma not going anywhere near that.


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## Captain.Abrecan (Jun 10, 2011)

How long does it take to mine a bitcoin? cuz electricity and bandwidth are expensive for me


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jun 10, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> News i saw yesterday says FBI is invetigating BitCoins, as they are used for drug transactions.
> 
> 
> Dunno the veracity of that, but it's enough that I'mma not going anywhere near that.



people use cash everyday to buy drugs that doesnt mean everyone who uses crash is a drug dealer. just sayin'


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## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> people use cash everyday to buy drugs that doesnt mean everyone who uses crash is a drug dealer. just sayin'



NO, that's not the issue...LuLz.


There's just the potential that BitCoin's accounts get frozen by the FBI, and your coins will be worth NOTHING.

It's very much set up to launder funds, the way you have to go to turn it into real cash.

 iwas more refering to dude's comment about it being a ponzi scheme...which I do not beleive, at all.


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## silkstone (Jun 10, 2011)

Captain.Abrecan said:


> How long does it take to mine a bitcoin? cuz electricity and bandwidth are expensive for me



i think it's on a sliding scale, but it seems that you i can make about $8 a day with my card, although i haven;t confirmed it and it's a lot of estimation.


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## AphexDreamer (Jun 10, 2011)

Yeah I read about that. 

They use it because there is no tracing back the money. So its the safest way to buy drugs (Ironic?).


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 10, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> NO, that's not the issue...LuLz.
> 
> 
> There's just the potential that BitCoin's accounts get frozen by the FBI, and your coins will be worth NOTHING.
> ...



i would be more worried about getting into a car accident today then having the FBI freeze some people's bitcoin accounts.


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## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> i would be more worried about getting into a car accident today then having the FBI freeze some people's bitcoin accounts.



I'm not concerned with personal accounts. It's the accounts that hold the bitcoin company's funds that would matter.

Fort Gox?


You know, it's like Fort Knox getting emptied...that value would drop sharply, very quickly. This means you need to cash out very often in order to truly protect your interests. And it isn't easy to cash out.

Just liek teh housing market...mortgages became exposed as worthless, peopel started selling, and the actual homeowners got stiffed.

Using and earning BitCoins isn't the issue. It's holding onto your coins that becomes risky.


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 10, 2011)

ah i see what you saying now. but bitcoins isnt centralized like our governments are. i could see an FBI investigation though leading to people liquidating their own personal accounts.


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## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> ah i see what you saying now. but bitcoins isnt centralized like our governments are. i could see an FBI investigation though leading to people liquidating their own personal accounts.



Yes, that is what I would think would happen, exactly. I mean, earning coins for doing DC projects is very cool...but holding onto them while trying to earn enough to replace hardware is a very slippery slope.

If the FBI goes after Fort Gox hardcore, then alot of people will bail out. I mean, maybe not...BitCons needs to work on that to protect the "investors" from such things.

Which amounts to money laundering, if done wrong.


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 10, 2011)

perhaps. it would take a lot though for the FBI to make any argument against bitcoins that can't be made for any other currency in the world. telling though that they would investigate little old bitcoin while not investigating how the federal reserve spends its money.


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## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2011)

I agree, but you know how hysteria works. I'll wait a bit until they are far more established.


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## silkstone (Jun 10, 2011)

Hmm.. i wish i had started mining when i read this thread first... i love get rich quick schemes. As it is, i'll be happy if i can get (and sell) a single bit coin


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## n-ster (Jun 11, 2011)

I had 15 BTC left over since when I stopped mining (heat ) and made over 400$ lol o.o


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## matteumayo (Jun 11, 2011)

Right now a friend of mine has over $180,000 worth of BTC, lol.

I still have 30, and should have 50 by September.

P.S. get ready for a huge price jump!

I'm thinking <$100 by July.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Jun 11, 2011)

Why would you try to hold onto bitcoins? Wouldn't you want to cash out as soon as possible? And typically you already have a card for mining. What's the downside here? Seems all you have to do is never buy bitcoins yourself and you wont be at risk of losing anything if it all goes to shit.


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## matteumayo (Jun 11, 2011)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> Why would you try to hold onto bitcoins? Wouldn't you want to cash out as soon as possible? And typically you already have a card for mining. What's the downside here? Seems all you have to do is never buy bitcoins yourself and you wont be at risk of losing anything if it all goes to shit.



1. Because you believe in BTC as a currency.

2. Because the price may go up in the future.


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## DOM (Jun 11, 2011)

i started my 4870 today doing this and how do you get paid ? and is it real money lol

havent read into it just saw u get money for  doing it haha


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## theonedub (Jun 11, 2011)

I wonder how BTC works as far as taxes are concerned.


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## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 11, 2011)

Whats the catch? Theres gotta be something with the AMD generation thing?

edit: Will this work okay with virtualbox running 11.04 unbuntu 64bit in w7 64bit??


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## n-ster (Jun 11, 2011)

If anyone has problems selling, or wants a way to sell fast but cheaper than the actual value, PM me

Virtualbox? The thing needs full access to your GPU


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## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 11, 2011)

Goddamnit didnt think of that... anyway to let virtualbox harness power at all? Or does linux need to be standalone?

So to get this running, i need to download ubuntu iso + linux catalyst drivers + mining client = BTC?


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## n-ster (Jun 11, 2011)

If virtualbox doesn't let OpenCL work properly, you won't be able to use it to mine.

ubuntu iso + linux catalyst drivers + mining client should do great... but you also got to install the OpenCL drivers if they arent included in the CAT drivers. you got to download the bitcoin client as well also. There are a few Linux guides if you do a search in the bitcoin forums


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## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 11, 2011)

Ive returned a vastly smarter man, as a result ive downloaded linux twice, made that dual boot. For no real purpose.

Currently downloading the blocks using client 0.3.21 and poclbm0428, on windows that is

As for how you receive money from it? (this allowed or not? saw something on first page of thread but not too sure, so feel free to edit this post) you go send coins and send to the address of buyer and receive whatever reward via paypal or whoever?

Also is anyone here part of a pool? They worth it or not?

More and more questions, i know ive got GPU mining up and going but how do i know/see CPU is as well?

Oh yea, does it need a constant internet connection? My internet is turned off every night...


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## n-ster (Jun 11, 2011)

Needs internet,pool is a must, mining on windows has no real downside, I use the IRC channel bitcoin-otc to sell, if you want another way, PM me

FINALLY price is going down a bit


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## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 11, 2011)

Will look into selling more once ive acumalated some BTC in the first place.
Good/bad price is going down? Price has dropped from 30 to 21 in the last 48hrs
Also must you run the batch file whenever you want to mine? Or just the bitcoin client?


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## n-ster (Jun 11, 2011)

mine

make sure you are in a pool


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## theJesus (Jun 11, 2011)

30 to 21 USD?  Wasn't it like $5 not that long ago?


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## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 11, 2011)

https://mtgox.com/trade/history
Seems as if it was $5 end of april

@n-ster
Am with slush's pool


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## matteumayo (Jun 11, 2011)

theonedub said:


> I wonder how BTC works as far as taxes are concerned.



I believe in the US bitcoin earnings (when sold for USD) that are greater than something like $3500 are taxed via the Capitol Earnings Tax.

This is good news, since the Capitol Earnings Tax is less than the standard income tax.

Also, I think we're going to see a huge price jump soon


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## silkstone (Jun 11, 2011)

Anyone use Mt.Gox to get their money out? i'm thinking of using libertyreserve, but i've never heard of them before now.


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## n-ster (Jun 11, 2011)

silkstone said:


> Anyone use Mt.Gox to get their money out? i'm thinking of using libertyreserve, but i've never heard of them before now.



Why not just withdraw with Dwolla?


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## silkstone (Jun 11, 2011)

n-ster said:


> Why not just withdraw with Dwolla?



Is Dwolla better? I'll prolly have to xfer the funds to my family in the UK then they can send it to me or something, but i'd like a payment system that is decent. Pay pal would be good, then i could buy stuff online, but there are too many paypal scams with bit-coins, or so i read!


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## n-ster (Jun 11, 2011)

silkstone said:


> Is Dwolla better? I'll prolly have to xfer the funds to my family in the UK then they can send it to me or something, but i'd like a payment system that is decent. Pay pal would be good, then i could buy stuff online, but there are too many paypal scams with bit-coins, or so i read!



more like the potential to scam is high....

but if you need paypal, PM me


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## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 12, 2011)

What flags/optimisations are you guys running under poclbm? Im currently using -w 256 -f 15 -v and getting 274mhash/s on my 6870 @ 970/1145


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## xenocide (Jun 12, 2011)

Just gonna leave this here;

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21877


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## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 12, 2011)

xenocide said:


> Just gonna leave this here;
> 
> http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21877



Saw this article, read it, realised I saw this thread in the recent posts, read about it, now im mining, its either this or folding and this gives greater returns


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## silkstone (Jun 12, 2011)

P1n3apqlExpr3ss said:


> What flags/optimisations are you guys running under poclbm? Im currently using -w 256 -f 15 -v and getting 274mhash/s on my 6870 @ 970/1145



thanks, i put those flags in and my output went up 25% 

It has gone down to $11 usd today, a massive fall. it looks like that $30 high was a kind of manipulation. The market actually seems quite interesting and reminds me of the one in eve online.


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## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 12, 2011)

silkstone said:


> thanks, i put those flags in and my output went up 25%
> 
> It has gone down to $11 usd today, a massive fall. it looks like that $30 high was a kind of manipulation. The market actually seems quite interesting and reminds me of the one in eve online.



No problem, havent tested it out yet but i have seen other users using -w 128/64 and one guy using -v 2 no idea on impact on performance but -w could increase as the worksize is smaller

Market does seem pretty volatile but i dont really plan on trading them until i build up some BTC at least, currently only have around 1/4 BTC


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## matteumayo (Jun 12, 2011)

Now is the time to buy, folks. I don't think we'll see it this low in the near future.

Expect $30-60 per in the coming month. You can take that to the bank.


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## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 12, 2011)

Whoever writes this tends to agree with you matt
http://blog.bitcoinwatch.com/2011/06/bitcoin-market-analysis-jun-10th-2011-by-s3052/

However I dont really want to put real life funds into it.. barely got my mind around the mining side of it


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## ShiBDiB (Jun 12, 2011)

I still dont understand how an intangible currency can hold value.


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## silkstone (Jun 12, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> I still dont understand how an intangible currency can hold value.



Think of it like a virtual item... people pay big bucks on things like face-book and 2nd life for intangible items.


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## ShiBDiB (Jun 12, 2011)

silkstone said:


> Think of it like a virtual item... people pay big bucks on things like face-book and 2nd life for intangible items.



Yes cause theirs a use for them, albeit a virtual one. Bitcoins.. whats the use of them outside of trading them for cash, how can something with no use be worth money.


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## silkstone (Jun 12, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> Yes cause theirs a use for them, albeit a virtual one. Bitcoins.. whats the use of them outside of trading them for cash, how can something with no use be worth money.



they can be exchanged for a "few" different kinds of goods. At the moment, most of the market (i assume) is driven by speculation, but having a trading base, where people are willing to exchange it for dollars means it actually has a fairly decent chance of taking off as a currency. The US Gov. would probably try to shut it down in the future tho. Even if indirectly.


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## ShiBDiB (Jun 12, 2011)

silkstone said:


> they can be exchanged for a "few" different kinds of goods. At the moment, most of the market (i assume) is driven by speculation, but having a trading base, where people are willing to exchange it for dollars means it actually has a fairly decent chance of taking off as a currency. The US Gov. would probably try to shut it down in the future tho. Even if indirectly.



Well only because people are earning money doing nothing thats based on nothing.. Unrealistically (in that this is highly unlikely to happen) if it grew exponentially it could seriously hurt an already damaged us economy.


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## twilyth (Jun 12, 2011)

silkstone said:


> they can be exchanged for a "few" different kinds of goods. At the moment, most of the market (i assume) is driven by speculation, but having a trading base, where people are willing to exchange it for dollars means it actually has a fairly decent chance of taking off as a currency. The US Gov. would probably try to shut it down in the future tho. Even if indirectly.


No, the DEA will just start busting people using Silk Road.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/06/silkroad/


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## meran (Jun 12, 2011)

haha can someone open games shop please


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## xenocide (Jun 12, 2011)

silkstone said:


> they can be exchanged for a "few" different kinds of goods. At the moment, most of the market (i assume) is driven by speculation, but having a trading base, where people are willing to exchange it for dollars means it actually has a fairly decent chance of taking off as a currency. The US Gov. would probably try to shut it down in the future tho. Even if indirectly.



You just admitted my one concern, and the main reason I am staying out of this.  *The entire market is driven by speculation*.  Whatever BitCoins really are (they have to be something of value under the hood) they are only valuable so long as people desire them, and consider them valuable.  At any given time a place like MtGox could stop buying and the entire market would sink.  That $30 mark was probably the best time to sell, because even if it hits $100, what does it matter if all of a sudden the people buying them up stop?  It becomes worthless.

I have seen the affects of market speculation in the real world, It never ends well...


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## theonedub (Jun 16, 2011)

Theft? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...ncy-500000-bitcoin-heist-raises-questions.ars


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## theJesus (Jun 16, 2011)

theonedub said:


> Theft? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...ncy-500000-bitcoin-heist-raises-questions.ars


From the article: "Rather than relying on a centralized database, the Bitcoin protocol allows any computer on the Internet to participate in the payment clearing process. At the end of each 10-minute round, one of the nodes is chosen at random to receive a payment for his contribution to the process. For this reason, participating in the clearing process is known as "mining" Bitcoins."

_Finally_, I fucking understand how the Bitcoins are actually generated.


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## silkstone (Jun 16, 2011)

I'm still kicking myself for not starting back in February when i first heard about it. It wasn't really worth it for the cost of electricity and i never thought it would actually take off, i thought it was more like a proof of concept. In hindsight i could have built me a whole new rig with the coins i would have mined in those 4 months 

Don'tcha just love hindsight, it always kicks you in the ass!


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## theJesus (Jun 16, 2011)

Yeah, I wish I would have just went and bought as much as I could afford when I first saw this thread and they were just under $5.  I could have quadrupled my investment, or more.


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## silkstone (Jun 16, 2011)

I'm not too fussed that i never bought any with RL cash, as that is something i would never have done. but mining for them when they were like 20x easier, i should have totally jumped on that.
ATM i am just gonna mine for a month, see what happens with the market and cash out for that month. Either that or just eat the cost of the extra electricity i've been using if it fails within the month.
on another note i got my first full coin today. \0/ yay me!


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## theJesus (Jun 16, 2011)

I came across too late for mining to be worthwhile, considering I have an NV card.


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## meran (Jun 16, 2011)

it gets impossible to generate a coin now im using 6850+6770+5850 to get only 1 coin aday LOL


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## AphexDreamer (Jun 16, 2011)

meran said:


> it gets impossible to generate a coin now im using 6850+6770+5850 to get only 1 coin aday LOL



You can always buy cheap and sell it when its high.


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## meran (Jun 16, 2011)

well my paypal account take like 6% and i told my friends to buy when it got down to 10 but they refused haha


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## meran (Jun 16, 2011)

where all these tera hash been in 2 days .?? it jumped to 11 from 6 in 2 days that's just impossible


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## silkstone (Jun 16, 2011)

meran said:


> it gets impossible to generate a coin now im using 6850+6770+5850 to get only 1 coin aday LOL



That's still about $20 a day, not bad for doing nothing.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Jun 16, 2011)

Look at bitcoins' flaws. Make new digital currency without said flaws. Invest heavily. Profit $$$


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## meran (Jun 16, 2011)

silkstone said:


> That's still about $20 a day, not bad for doing nothing.



i need to add a new graphic card every week to stay at this rate if the price stays 20$ acoin


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## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 16, 2011)

meran said:


> where all these tera hash been in 2 days .?? it jumped to 11 from 6 in 2 days that's just impossible



Media Coverage.


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## meran (Jun 16, 2011)

by the next year each block will be only 25 coins!!! holly


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## n-ster (Jun 16, 2011)

W1zzard said:


> i looked at this for about 30 seconds and it seems to be a get rich quick scheme for the people running it.
> 
> how many *US DOLLARS* have you been *paid* doing anything with it ? and how much did you pay to generate that income?



To respond to this now, My total has been a bit over 3000$, and the time my cards mined were a total of 23/7 (yes 23 lol) for about a month+ worth in total (ie: 30~40*23 hours)

I sold mostly at around 5.8$, so if I had waited till the high, I would have made over 18 000$ for 1 month of 2* 6870 mining o.o Electricity cost of my whole computer for the month, including a small amount of AC, was 40~50$... If I were to mine now, I'd have to say 60~75$ now though, as its Summer n hot n windows cant be open as allergy season




meran said:


> where all these tera hash been in 2 days .?? it jumped to 11 from 6 in 2 days that's just impossible



If after a difficulty increase, this is not actually real, only a flaw from the way the hashrate is calculated


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## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 16, 2011)

n-ster said:


> If after a difficulty increase, this is not actually real, only a flaw from the way the hashrate is calculated


So what would be the un-inflated thash rate?

If anyone can or wants to, please check out a short guide I wrote over here : http://www.kitguru.net/forum/off-topic-forum/8332-bitcoins.html

Thanks
P1n3apqlExpr3ss


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## n-ster (Jun 16, 2011)

P1n3apqlExpr3ss said:


> So what would be the un-inflated thash rate?
> 
> If anyone can or wants to, please check out a short guide I wrote over here : http://www.kitguru.net/forum/off-topic-forum/8332-bitcoins.html
> 
> ...



you gotta wait a bit, by tomorrow it should be prtty close...

its already showing 10TH/s atm, my guess is that if it was 6~7 before the jump, it should be around 7.X


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## xenocide (Jun 16, 2011)

Price is steadily falling.  Not as bad as it was last week when they had a near-crash, but looking at the charts it's dropping about $.50 a day for the past 4-5 days.


----------



## matteumayo (Jun 16, 2011)

xenocide said:


> Price is steadily falling.  Not as bad as it was last week when they had a near-crash, but looking at the charts it's dropping about $.50 a day for the past 4-5 days.



Um, it was 19.4-19.8 for about 3 days steady. Just now it dropped a dollar.


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## Wyverex (Jun 17, 2011)

Be careful guys - a trojan that targets bitcoin owners has been discovered


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## meran (Jun 17, 2011)

seems all people got their eyes on bitcoin ,DDOS from one side and trojans from another


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## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 18, 2011)

Setting up encryption now.. do we cut the appdata files or merely copy them?


----------



## matteumayo (Jun 18, 2011)

P1n3apqlExpr3ss said:


> Setting up encryption now.. do we cut the appdata files or merely copy them?



I believe the only file that matters is wallet.dat.


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## ShiBDiB (Jun 18, 2011)

Can you short sell bitcoins?


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## n-ster (Jun 18, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> Can you short sell bitcoins?



Yes, if you find someone that agrees to your terms and is trustworthy enough.... I once sold an "option" I thin you call it, which basically puts an amount of bitcoins available for the option buyer at a significantly higher price but with a lapse of time (mine was 5 weeks), and on the fifth week, bitcoin rose very quickly. (at the time of transaction, BTC was 0.8$USD and the option was at like 1.2$, and it rose from 1.1-->1.8$ few days before expiration )


----------



## AphexDreamer (Jun 18, 2011)

Is it still recommended to get bitcoins while its down? Is now a good time?


----------



## matteumayo (Jun 18, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Is it still recommended to get bitcoins while its down? Is now a good time?



It would have been better a week ago when it was $10, but I think the price will rise eventually, so you will probably profit.


----------



## Bow (Jun 18, 2011)

Question
Like Folding am I going to have to crank up my fan speed or does mining use less GPU power


----------



## n-ster (Jun 18, 2011)

Bow said:


> Question
> Like Folding am I going to have to crank up my fan speed or does mining use less GPU power



fan speed should be a bit lower than folding IMO but very close to it =/

you should downclock memory, it actually IMPROVES performance

http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4292.0


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## silkstone (Jun 19, 2011)

I can;t downclock my memory  i followed the instuctions on the bitcoin forums, re-installed catalyst with only the core drives (no CCC) but still, my memory runs at 1ghz even when changing it in Trixx. I can't use MSI afterburner, Trixx is the only utility that gives me any voltage control.


----------



## n-ster (Jun 19, 2011)

I can't get Voltage control to work on MSI, but I can downclock... Can't you use MSI just for bitcoins?


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## silkstone (Jun 19, 2011)

n-ster said:


> I can't get Voltage control to work on MSI, but I can downclock... Can't you use MSI just for bitcoins?



i could, but then i'd have to lower my votage and hence my core clock. I'm running at 970mhz for mining atm, i don;t think it'd get nearly that high without changing the voltage


----------



## Grnfinger (Jun 19, 2011)

Hi 

I'm thinking about trying this out, I have a 5970 and just bought a 5870

Is this really legit? 
Where can I spend these coins or trade/sell for real world money?

This is what concerns me...
http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=48350

Not saying he knows what he is talking about but Joel does do his homework

Sorry if this has been answered before, I'm interested I just dont know enough to setup and cash in


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## silkstone (Jun 19, 2011)

Grnfinger said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm thinking about trying this out, I have a 5970 and just bought a 5870
> 
> ...



It's legit
The link you provided need you to register to view.


----------



## Grnfinger (Jun 19, 2011)

silkstone said:


> It's legit
> The link you provided need you to register to view.



So I have a bitcoin client installed but I'm not really sure what to do next, is there an idiots guide to setting up like WCG?


----------



## huayra.agera (Jun 19, 2011)

Try going directly to the BitCoin Forums http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php. All the info you need is there. Just do a search within the site.


----------



## Grnfinger (Jun 19, 2011)

huayra.agera said:


> Try going directly to the BitCoin Forums http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php. All the info you need is there. Just do a search within the site.



thanks been reading there all day.... yeah for me I've made 0.050 coins today 
At this rate early retirement is around the corner


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## berwick53 (Jun 19, 2011)

Mtgox has been compromised !!!

changing passwords just in case atm


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## matteumayo (Jun 19, 2011)

berwick53 said:


> Mtgox has been compromised !!!
> 
> changing passwords just in case atm



Yeah, makes me glad I never made an MtGox account


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## Grnfinger (Jun 19, 2011)

what about compute4cash, how do they work?

My one bitcoin client is not working the gpu at all, I loaded the c4c client and both cores are at 100% now, even my PSU fan kicked up a few rpms

5970 is getting a workout today


----------



## matteumayo (Jun 19, 2011)

Grnfinger said:


> what about compute4cash, how do they work?
> 
> My one bitcoin client is not working the gpu at all, I loaded the c4c client and both cores are at 100% now, even my PSU fan kicked up a few rpms
> 
> 5970 is getting a workout today



C4C is how I learned about bitcoins.

They pretty much made it easy to mine bitcoins (without telling the worker that they were really just mining bitcoins) and took/take I think about 90% of profits.


----------



## xenocide (Jun 20, 2011)

Grnfinger said:


> what about compute4cash, how do they work?



As stated, good for beginners.  The downside is that they pay you roughly half of what a Bitcoin is worth (from what I've heard) and then sell it on the free market to make substantial profits.


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## n-ster (Jun 20, 2011)

the mtgox problem isn't nearly as huge as ppl make it out to be... at least, now they are upping their security to extremely high lvls o.o

only 1000$ was lost in all, and I'm sure MT paid the guy back, probably with interest as a compensation.


----------



## Hayder_Master (Jun 20, 2011)

Interesting i hear about bitcoin before month, and i didn't take a wide look for it cuz it's new thing for as but i want ask people who try it just an advice, so let we say i spend money for extreme rig like 2000$ or more, and elcetrisity cost me every 1000w about 20$ in a month, so is this thing worth to do such a move like this.
Thanx a lot


----------



## n-ster (Jun 20, 2011)

investing in bitcoin rig is risky, and you should only do it if you understand bitcoin and have a bit of experience with it

the one thing you could do is sell your GTX 580 and buy 1 or 2 6990s/6970s and mine with those


----------



## pr0n Inspector (Jun 20, 2011)

n-ster said:


> the mtgox problem isn't nearly as huge as ppl make it out to be... at least, now they are upping their security to extremely high lvls o.o
> 
> only 1000$ was lost in all, and I'm sure MT paid the guy back, probably with interest as a compensation.



It exposed mt.gox's crappy security/technical expertise. It raises the question of reliability and trust of unregulated central exchanges for a decentralized currency. Faith is the only thing that keeps bitcoin afloat and human minds are easy to sway, a string of bad news can easily destroy many's dream of profiting from their brand new mining farm.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Jun 20, 2011)

Dear Mt.Gox user,

Our database has been compromised, including your email. We are working on a
quick resolution and to begin with, your password has been disabled as a
security measure (and you will need to reset it to login again on Mt.Gox).

If you were using the same password on Mt.Gox and other places (email, etc),
you should change this password as soon as possible.

For more details, please see this:

https://support.mtgox.com/entries/2...ell-off-due-to-a-compromised-account-rollback

The informations there will be updated as our investigation progresses.

Please accept our apologies for the troubles caused, and be certain we will do
everything we can to keep the funds entrusted with us as secure as possible.


The leaked data includes the following:

- Account number
- Account login
- Email address
- Encrypted password

While the password is encrypted, it is possible to bruteforce most passwords
with time, and it is likely bad people are working on this right now.


Any unauthorized access done to any account you own (email, mtgox, etc) should
be reported to the appropriate authorities in your country.


Thanks,
The Mt.Gox team


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jun 20, 2011)

pr0n Inspector said:


> Faith is the only thing that keeps bitcoin the U.S. dollar afloat and human minds are easy to sway, a string of bad news can easily destroy many's dream of profiting from their brand new mining farm printing press.



fixed.


----------



## silkstone (Jun 20, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> fixed.



exactly, i'magine what would happen if people lost faith and decided to cash out!


----------



## n-ster (Jun 20, 2011)

pr0n Inspector said:


> It exposed mt.gox's crappy security/technical expertise. It raises the question of reliability and trust of unregulated central exchanges for a decentralized currency. Faith is the only thing that keeps bitcoin afloat and human minds are easy to sway, a string of bad news can easily destroy many's dream of profiting from their brand new mining farm.



pools are much less secure, my password and email was compromised and bitcoin wallet changed in the payout thing from bitcoinpool.com, they stored the password in plain text, no encryption...

problem is that nothing can be truly decentralized at its beginnings. Also note that you gotta make mistakes to improve. Also, MTGox always has been under heavy hacker pressure

still, you got a good point


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Jun 21, 2011)

I'm trying to crack my MTGox password at the moment, just to see what it is.  Also, I already got like 6000+ other passwords on accident cause I copy pasted into the .txt file, but now I'm just going for mine.  I seriously make up new passwords for each site, but still fun to crack it!


----------



## AphexDreamer (Jun 21, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> I'm trying to crack my MTGox password at the moment, just to see what it is.  Also, I already got like 6000+ other passwords on accident cause I copy pasted into the .txt file, but now I'm just going for mine.  I seriously make up new passwords for each site, but still fun to crack it!



How?


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Jun 21, 2011)

The CSV file containing all the users / passes / emails was leaked, so I have that.  I won't post the link here cause it will get taken down.  

Cracking wise, all I do is plug it in to JTR or C&A (Prefer the former), and just sit back which my 460 rapes away at password hashes.


----------



## Solaris17 (Jun 21, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> The CSV file containing all the users / passes / emails was leaked, so I have that.  I won't post the link here cause it will get taken down.
> 
> Cracking wise, all I do is plug it in to JTR or C&A (Prefer the former), and just sit back which my 460 rapes away at password hashes.



why not just type your password or copy a rainbow table and encrypt it and watch cain and able try that. im curious as to why you went and found the leaked bitcoin DB. The real question being how many of those usn and passwords are you going to try to see if the people changed their passwrds.


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Jun 21, 2011)

Solaris17 said:


> why not just type your password or copy a rainbow table and encrypt it and watch cain and able try that. im curious as to why you went and found the leaked bitcoin DB. The real question being how many of those usn and passwords are you going to try to see if the people changed their passwrds.



I went to go find the leaked DB to see if I used a unique password, which I usually do, in order to make sure I am not compromised.


----------



## meran (Jun 21, 2011)

oh if they hacked sony why cant the hack any thing on the web , bitcoins seems quick profit so they continue attacking it , the stupid hacker that stole 25k coins from one account tried to sell them for one cent a coin it was obvious that he wasn't aiming for cash he just wanted to crash bitcoin and he almost succeed at that


----------



## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jun 21, 2011)

The hacker wasnt the one that ended up buying the 25k of bitcoins, a guy posted on the official forums saying he was the one that ended up buying them by putting in bid of 0.0101 compared to everyone elses 0.01 so he ended up getting them. He then contacted the head guy of bitcoins or mtgox, cant remember so go look over at forums for the full story


----------



## pr0n Inspector (Jun 21, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> fixed.



...and killing someone with a .22 LR works more or less the same way as blowing up a ship with a giant naval gun too(slugs don't explode with pleasing fireworks though).


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jun 21, 2011)

pretty sad encryption if a gtx460 can decrypt a CSV file... why didnt they use 2048bit RSA encryption?


----------



## xenocide (Jun 22, 2011)

In retrospect, I'd imagine a lot of people wish they sold at $30...


----------



## matteumayo (Jun 22, 2011)

xenocide said:


> In retrospect, I'd imagine a lot of people wish they sold at $30...



I don't.

I still believe the price will get to $50 soon.


----------



## n-ster (Jun 23, 2011)

Bitcoin is doomed for deflation xD 50$ by the end of the year at least IMO


----------



## pr0n Inspector (Jun 23, 2011)

There are like what, 7m bitcoins now? People are still mining it like crazy, being treated more like exotic artifacts than money. transaction fee-based income is still negligible.


----------



## snuif09 (Jun 23, 2011)

forgive me from being too lazy to read through all the posts, but i really want to get into bitcoin mining. is there some sort of guide on how to setup everything?

nvm: googling a few minutes more does wonders


----------



## veblen (Jun 24, 2011)

Given that the price of 58XX cards has gone off the charts, I figure I should stick to the current gen and hopefully be able to sell them down the road.

I can currently either get three 6870s or two 6970s. I would add a 6990 to my dilemma but they are out of stock.

Which would be more cost-effective, in terms of MHash/power consumption? And would the 6970s hold their value better?

Thanks!


----------



## n-ster (Jun 24, 2011)

6870x2 from powercolor should do great. If you have enough power, just fit as many as you can on your mobo. 6990s aren't bad either.

However the on that beats these by a lot are used 5870s/5970s/5850s and even 5770s


----------



## meran (Jun 24, 2011)

if u buy 2x5770(1600sp) it \will be better than buying 1 6870(1120) because its all about stream processors


----------



## LAN_deRf_HA (Jun 28, 2011)

Value is still falling like a rock. When I first looked into mining like 2 weeks ago a 6990 could get you $33 a day. Now it's less than $7. At this rate they'll be worthless.
http://bitminer.info/


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jun 28, 2011)

fail


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 28, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> You know, it's like Fort Knox getting emptied...that value would drop sharply, very quickly.
> 
> Using and earning BitCoins isn't the issue. It's holding onto your coins that becomes risky.



LuLz.


----------



## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jul 4, 2011)

Bump. Mtgox is back up, price is falling a bit everday.. mid-long term thoughts?


----------



## n-ster (Jul 4, 2011)

Give BTC a month to recover from the disaster and over-speculation IMO


----------



## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jul 4, 2011)

You expecting it to go up in other words?


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jul 4, 2011)

buy low, sell high.


----------



## matteumayo (Jul 4, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> buy low, sell high.


----------



## LAN_deRf_HA (Jul 4, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> buy low, sell high.



Or the far more common; buy low, sell lower, pull hair.


----------



## n-ster (Jul 4, 2011)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> Or the far more common; buy low, sell lower, pull hair.



Mine lots, sell 1/4 at a price, see the price shoot up the next day, sell at what looked like a peak (another ~1/3), then see the price reach incredible amounts and sell the rest that you have and stop mining and making money cuz you can't live in the heat during summer

lost a few finger nails in the process


----------



## twilyth (Jul 5, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> buy low, sell high.



Sell high, buy low.

Go balls to the wall and do it on leverage.

Yeeeeaaaaaa Haaaaaaaaa!


----------



## animal007uk (Jul 11, 2011)

Just came across this so thought i would post it here so people can have a read.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/10/camp_bx_goes_live/


----------



## LordJummy (Jul 15, 2011)

Anyone want to start up a TPU mining pool for fun? I know it's a bad time to start, but it would at least increase our rate of finding the block each round. Either that, or I am part of a small private pool that has 0% fees so you keep all of your coins. Let me know if you are interested in joining.


----------



## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jul 15, 2011)

^ Could be interested


----------



## ShiBDiB (Jul 16, 2011)

is this even remotely profitable anymore? seems any money to be made is in playing the market and not by farming


----------



## P1n3apqlExpr3ss (Jul 16, 2011)

Approx power usage for me is 1$ ish a day, while daily BTC worth is like $2-2.5


----------



## twilyth (Jul 16, 2011)

animal007uk said:


> Just came across this so thought i would post it here so people can have a read.
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/10/camp_bx_goes_live/


Great article.  Short selling is what my last post was referring to but I don't know if people got that.

From the article:


> Bitcoin volatility
> 
> However, as recent events have illustrated, technical security isn’t the only challenge facing exchanges. The volatility of the currency itself is also a problem.
> 
> ...



Short selling is when you think something is over valued.  You then borrow that security from someone (at least in theory) and sell it as if it's your own.  If the price drops as you expect, then you buy it back and return the loan - for a profit.  Of course if you're wrong, well . . . . 

Since there are always going to be people who think any particular security is over valued, there will always be short sellers in the market.  This helps stabilize prices because if there is a sudden drop, these people, who are short-term traders anyway, will come in to buy and lock in their profit.  If the price suddenly spikes, those same people will come in and buy to cover their losses.


----------



## n-ster (Jul 17, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> is this even remotely profitable anymore? seems any money to be made is in playing the market and not by farming



my guess is it is still pretty profitable

Just calculated, I would do about 5.50$ worth of BTC per day, which is about 4.30$~4.50$ profit per day, so about 30$ a week. far from what I did in the past


----------



## Platibus (Jul 17, 2011)

n-ster said:


> my guess is it is still pretty profitable
> 
> Just calculated, I would do about 5.50$ worth of BTC per day, which is about 4.30$~4.50$ profit per day, so about 30$ a week. far from what I did in the past



That's more than the minimum wage here.


----------



## n-ster (Jul 17, 2011)

I used to be able to do 20~30$ a day lol


----------



## Easy Rhino (Oct 19, 2011)

oh yea, im a noob. bitcoins still fail though.


----------



## n-ster (Oct 19, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> oh yea, im a noob. bitcoins still fail though.



I'm actually happy it is declining... Hopefully enough people leave so that we can start from almost scratch, and them make more money by being early adopters xD

Theses declines recently were predicted though


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Oct 19, 2011)

n-ster said:


> I'm actually happy it is declining...



No you aren't.  



n-ster said:


> Hopefully enough people leave so that we can start from almost scratch



Good luck having difficulty go down...  



n-ster said:


> and them make more money by being early adopters xD



Cause when difficulty FINALLY DROPS the value will be below electricity cost.  



n-ster said:


> Theses declines recently were predicted though



Not really, nobody sold their BTC off, so they all got screwed.  Nobody could really predict the decline after it hit $10.


----------



## erocker (Oct 19, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> oh yea, im a noob. bitcoins still fail though.



Considering there are way better investments both long term and short term. Absolutely.


----------



## n-ster (Oct 19, 2011)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> No you aren't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The decline from 5$ to now was predicted (or at least speculated), and I have 0 BTC, I only bought low sold high (day-trading) lately and got bored. If BTC slows down even more than now, we could be looking at a dead period, and that could mean 2 things, BTC never comes back up, or there will be a short amount of time where mining will be as profitable as it was in the rapid increase. So if you mine when BTC is down (and when difficulty is down), then stockpiling could work in the LONG term. Where the most money will be at though, is at the beginning of the increase, where Bitcoin may go high quickly, and difficulty will go back up just as quickly. During that time,20$ per day with 2x 6870 may be plausible

I'm not saying this scenario is probable, I'm saying it is a good possibility, enough to get me excited. If it does happen, and you know how to milk the cow, then you can get easy money for a month or 2.
So all we need is a stagnation for a few months, hopefully at below 1$ and where people will start selling off their BTC


----------



## ShiBDiB (Oct 19, 2011)

I must be thick, but this entire premise of making money out of nothing with nothing backing it up just screams of a scam where someone somewhere is getting rich. And the fact that this hasn't spread outside of the tech forum circles is reason enough to believe its a waste of time.


----------



## n-ster (Oct 19, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> I must be thick, but this entire premise of making money out of nothing with nothing backing it up just screams of a scam where someone somewhere is getting rich. And the fact that this hasn't spread outside of the tech forum circles is reason enough to believe its a waste of time.



Reason why the majority are tech forum users is becomes it's them who have the hardware to mine!

The concept is good, it just needs something to stabilize it's value a bit better


----------



## PVTCaboose1337 (Oct 19, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> but this entire premise of making money out of nothing with nothing backing it up just screams of a scam



Any fork that is made off of bitcoins has the creator premining MILLIONS of coins for themselves, and then releasing it to the public.  That way, then the coins are worth something they can sell and make money!


----------



## AphexDreamer (Oct 19, 2011)

I actually profited well with Bitcoins. 

Managed to buy a few games I wanted BF2, Crysis 2 (Waste lol) some hardware and have some left over to go towards a new GPU. 

I've since stopped though after I had to reformat my computer and forgot to backup my wallet... 
I lost the few coins I had left plus the difficulty increased just made it so I didn't turn back. It was good while it lasted and I hope something like this happens again so I can make use of it again.


----------



## qubit (Aug 22, 2012)

*6-8 Weeks Until Bitcoin Debit/Credit Card, says BitInstant*

Interesting. The main attraction of BitCoins is that it's a truly anonymous currency, making tracking of who traded with who next to impossible - perfect for ardent privacy enthusiasts and scam artists alike. The big catch of course, is that to register for a debit/credit card, customers will have to register in just the same way as for any other debit/credit card by providing full personal, verifiable details, destroying this critical anonymity - the whole point of BitCoins, hence its popularity remains to be seen.



> Those of you who have been around the Bitcoin block a time or two have probably heard of, and even used, BitInstant. BitInstant is a service that provides the ability to transfer funds between Bitcoin and governmental currencies much more quickly than would otherwise be possible. They're also well known for certain transaction types not offered anywhere else, such as the ability to buy BTC with cash at thousands of locations across the United States, and the similarly unprecedented ability to withdraw bitcoins to scam-laden PayPal. A few hours ago, Charlie Shrem confirmed in a conversation on IRC that they're 6 to 8 weeks away from launching the biggest Bitcoin breakthrough in recent history: A bitcoin-funded international debit/credit card.
> 
> I'll paste the entire contents of the IRC conversation at the end of this post, but here's the basic breakdown so far:
> 
> ...



Coding In My Sleep (the full IRC is there now)


----------



## Phusius (Oct 28, 2012)

I'm thinking of getting into this, can someone PM me with a legit website that does this?


----------



## copenhagen69 (Oct 29, 2012)

Bitcoins are still around?


----------



## exodusprime1337 (Oct 29, 2012)

copenhagen69 said:


> Bitcoins are still around?



Oh definately.  I've been mining for a while now with pretty much ever amd gpu i can find, mostly work computers and the like.


----------



## copenhagen69 (Oct 29, 2012)

exodusprime1337 said:


> Oh definately.  I've been mining for a while now with pretty much ever amd gpu i can find, mostly work computers and the like.



making any money on it? or is the electricity bill still more than what you make?


----------



## Phusius (Oct 29, 2012)

copenhagen69 said:


> making any money on it? or is the electricity bill still more than what you make?



my apartment pays for electricity personally, so thats not an issue with me, the more reason i need to find a legit bitcoin site and nab me a couple 7970's specifically for bitcoining.


----------



## Nordic (Oct 29, 2012)

Phusius said:


> my apartment pays for electricity personally, so thats not an issue with me, the more reason i need to find a legit bitcoin site and nab me a couple 7970's specifically for bitcoining.



I am your man. What do you need to know? I'll just send you a pm.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 29, 2012)

no thanks. Sounds Like Pyramid Schemes and Timeshares...


----------



## Nordic (Oct 29, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> no thanks. Sounds Like Pyramid Schemes and Timeshares...



Less a pyramid scheme than the US dollar. It is a digital commodity. Imagine it like digital gold. Bitcoins could be considered an investment like gold, but bitcoins are definitely high risk. High risk can come with high reward but is still high risk.



qubit said:


> Interesting. The main attraction of BitCoins is that it's a truly anonymous currency, making tracking of who traded with who next to impossible - perfect for ardent privacy enthusiasts and scam artists alike.


Bitcoin is not so anonymous as everyone originally thought. It is very difficult to find and prove that a certain address is a certain person. All transaction made in bitcoins are public record. Using computers to analyze that data can make it very easy to track a person if you know at least one of their addresses.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 29, 2012)

james888 said:


> Less a pyramid scheme than the US dollar. It is a digital commodity. Imagine it like digital gold. Bitcoins could be considered an investment like gold, but bitcoins are definitely high risk. High risk can come with high reward but is still high risk.



considering computers can go down quick or even the fact of a company suddenly going belly up. not worth it imho


----------



## Nordic (Oct 29, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> considering computers can go down quick or even the fact of a company suddenly going belly up. not worth it imho



Not much to argue against in the first sentence. Just like anything digital, you can back it up to whatever extend you want. I am unsure of your meaning about belly up.

Worth is a matter of perspective and is different to each individual. If you knew more about bitcoin you might think differently. I gave phusius some more info and once he learned he wouldn't be making much mining bitcoins he was not interested. There are many benefits to bitcoins though, but none may interest you.


----------



## xenocide (Oct 29, 2012)

"Digital Gold" is a bad analogy.  Gold is considered valuable because even if a currency completely vanishes, it retains value because it is a desirable resource, and has legitimate value regardless of where you are.  BitCoins are exactly like the US Dollar, or even worse as I see it.  Their value is determined quite literally by what people are willing to pay for them, and from what I've seen the people who made the most off Bitcoins were the early adopters and people who helped create them--which basically means it was a scam on their behalf that worked out pretty wonderfully.


----------



## MT Alex (Oct 29, 2012)

xenocide said:


> BitCoins are exactly like the US Dollar, or even worse as I see it.



I'm not sure if I'd go with worse, at least there is a finite number of bitcoins.  The amount of dollars being printed isn't even limited by paper and ink.  Bernanke wiggles his nose and POOF!  another $400 Billion in devalued "dollars."


----------



## Nordic (Oct 29, 2012)

xenocide said:


> "Digital Gold" is a bad analogy.  Gold is considered valuable because even if a currency completely vanishes, it retains value because it is a desirable resource, and has legitimate value regardless of where you are.  BitCoins are exactly like the US Dollar, or even worse as I see it.  Their value is determined quite literally by what people are willing to pay for them, and from what I've seen the people who made the most off Bitcoins were the early adopters and people who helped create them--which basically means it was a scam on their behalf that worked out pretty wonderfully.



Gold does have a value beyond what people are willing to pay for it. Bitcoin does too but no where near as high. The going rate for btc/dollars is no where near as high either. Bitcoin is still very very young. I am not saying I agree with it but some say that bitcoin is like the internet before the browser.

A scam is define as 	"A dishonest scheme; a fraud." Bitcoin is in no way dishonest and is not a fraud. Bitcoin is completely transparent actually. So there go's that.

The people who made the most of bitcoins were the early adopters. The people who paved the way to where bitcoin is now. Bitcoin would not exist without those early adopters who took the risk. High risk = high reward or high loss. Looks like they lucked out.

How is this for a scam? The US government can print as much money as it wants. Inflation = taxation. Currently the government is adding *40 billion* (source) a month to the dollar making all my money worth less. What about quantitative easing? Anything seem fishy here.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Oct 29, 2012)

The only thing I regret with bit coins is not backing up my wallet. 

Once I formatted and forgot to back it up, I got mad and stopped.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 29, 2012)

james888 said:


> Not much to argue against in the first sentence. Just like anything digital, you can back it up to whatever extend you want. I am unsure of your meaning about belly up.
> 
> Worth is a matter of perspective and is different to each individual. If you knew more about bitcoin you might think differently. I gave phusius some more info and once he learned he wouldn't be making much mining bitcoins he was not interested. There are many benefits to bitcoins though, but none may interest you.



belly up means dead/bankrupt


----------



## Nordic (Oct 29, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> belly up means dead/bankrupt



Me and my sometimes incompetent communication skills... 

I don't understand that part of your statement in relation to bitcoins



AphexDreamer said:


> The only thing I regret with bit coins is not backing up my wallet.
> 
> Once I formatted and forgot to back it up, I got mad and stopped.



I am so sorry. That is always a risk. I stopped mining a long time ago although it is just as profitable for me. Mining can be a bit of a hassle to get it to work well and I just got tired of messing with it. I still have a some coins left that I hold onto in hopes that the price will one day rise and triple my money. It isn't much but it is low enough I am not afraid to lose it.


----------



## Nordic (Oct 29, 2012)

AphexDreamer said:


> The only thing I regret with bit coins is not backing up my wallet.
> 
> Once I formatted and forgot to back it up, I got mad and stopped.



I am so sorry. That is always a risk. One big difference between bitcoins and gold is that bitcoins can be destroyed and gold can not. I don't know how much you lost but you deflated


----------



## Aquinus (Oct 29, 2012)

I'm still not convinced that bitcoin is nothing more than a fake currency that has no backing at all and only has a value because "people said so." I have a problem with that because it's like saying, "I'm going to use a fake credit card." It's "money" that came from nowhere and is honestly a bunch of generated numbers that are claimed to have some form of monetary value.

This is a pretty good article that describes how with bitcoin you only need one administrator to decide that bitcoins aren't worth enough to alter the value of the currency itself. You don't even need the federal reserve to do it, the bank can manipulate currency easier.


----------



## xenocide (Oct 29, 2012)

Exactly what the article Aquinus posted.


----------



## MT Alex (Oct 29, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> I'm still not convinced that bitcoin is nothing more than a fake currency that has no backing at all and only has a value because "people said so." I have a problem with that because it's like saying, "I'm going to use a fake credit card." It's "money" that came from nowhere and is honestly a bunch of generated numbers that are claimed to have some form of monetary value.
> 
> This is a pretty good article that describes how with bitcoin you only need one administrator to decide that bitcoins aren't worth enough to alter the value of the currency itself. You don't even need the federal reserve to do it, the bank can manipulate currency easier.



I don't think you have a firm grasp on how the Federal Reserve works.  You know it's not Federal, right?


----------



## Nordic (Oct 29, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> I'm still not convinced that bitcoin is nothing more than a fake currency that has no backing at all and only has a value because "people said so." I have a problem with that because it's like saying, "I'm going to use a fake credit card." It's "money" that came from nowhere and is honestly a bunch of generated numbers that are claimed to have some form of monetary value.
> 
> This is a pretty good article that describes how with bitcoin you only need one administrator to decide that bitcoins aren't worth enough to alter the value of the currency itself. You don't even need the federal reserve to do it, the bank can manipulate currency easier.



Currency is defined as "A system of money in general use in a particular country." Bitcoin is exactly that without the country. Bitcoin has no backing, but neither does the dollar if you take away the big brothers guns. Bitcoins value comes from two places. Its utility value and intrinsic value. You are completely right that bitcoins come from no where and are a bunch of numbers. If we so wanted we could anything, even buttons from our jackets, as a medium of exchange. The only way we can do that is if we both agree that buttons have value. Value really is a most subjective term.

About that article. I have no proof that is wrong or right but for now I will accept it as truth. It claims a bitcoin exchange operator was cheating and getting rich from it. That could happen and really would not surprise me if it did. The exchange operator did not speak english, or at least speak it well, so it could not of been one of the larger exchanges. Mtgox, the largest bitcoin exchange complies with both US and Japanese law. I don't use it because they will freeze your account if it you seem any bit suspicious or move a certain amount of money through them. I really try to avoid exchanges in general because I do not trust them. I try to buy and sell currency peer to peer. If I have to use an exchange I use campbx. That is me though. This cheater though can only go so far. That number that he changed was the ticker at the top saying what the last price sold for bitcoins were or maybe a weighted average. He could changed that number to $123 but no one would buy any coins. Certainly people would try to buy coins. The exchange btc-e was hacked once. The hackers set the value of bitcoins to $50. Did it work. No. No one bought any coins because the price was too high for them. A whole bunch of people including myself tried to sell at that price but couldn't. Btc-e then closed for a week or two to get itself working again. Point is, you can't set the price where you want it. You can only sell and buy at the prices others are willing to buy and sell for.

Bitcoins have no banks. Everyone is their own bank. Bitcoin is meant to be a break from our current flawed banking, monetary, and fiscal system. At least that is where most of the userbase has taken it.

I am just going to post this video here. It is a pro bitcoin person and a gold standard person arguing over the validity of bitcoins.


----------



## 3870x2 (Oct 29, 2012)

How much could I earn a month with a 6850 and 7950?


----------



## Nordic (Oct 29, 2012)

3870x2 said:


> How much could I earn a month with a 6850 and 7950?



Roughly $80 a month depending on difficulty and price of bitcoins/dollars. Bitcoin mining is not that profitable on the small scale anymore. I stopped mining because it is just a hassle to get it to work well. $60 a month for me is like paying for my gas each month. I might start mining again soon. There are other factors to stop someone from mining. The block reward is going to half in about a month. There are a lot of theories onto what might happen then. Most seem to think that the price will double from higher scarcity or mining will become entirely unprofitable.
Mining hardware comparisons
Profitability calculator


----------



## Soup (Oct 29, 2012)

> There are a lot of theories onto what might happen then. Most seem to think that the price will double from higher scarcity or mining will become entirely unprofitable.



I've read some assessments with the idea that the market value of bitcoins will stay about the same because while the amount of new bitcoins being generated will decrease, the overwhelming majority are already in circulation. There's not much in the way of precedent when it comes to bitcoins however; it's the grand open currency experiment.

I guess we'll see come December.

All I know is that I was seeing $300+ power bills and $250/month income...


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## Nordic (Oct 29, 2012)

Soup said:


> I've read some assessments with the idea that the market value of bitcoins will stay about the same because while the amount of new bitcoins being generated will decrease, the overwhelming majority are already in circulation. There's not much in the way of precedent when it comes to bitcoins however; it's the grand open currency experiment.
> 
> I guess we'll see come December.
> 
> All I know is that I was seeing $300+ power bills and $250/month income...



I completely agree. Bitcoin is a grand experiment and does not follow the typical rules.


----------



## Easy Rhino (May 9, 2013)

with bitcoins trading at over $100 i just realized that i am sitting on a few hundred dollars from the beginning. however, i have no idea what i did to sign up with an account or how to retrieve them. lol


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## erocker (May 9, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> with bitcoins trading at over $100 i just realized that i am sitting on a few hundred dollars from the beginning. however, i have no idea what i did to sign up with an account or how to retrieve them. lol



Money, cars, mansions, girls, luxury yachts... The finer things in life. You missed out bro.


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## Easy Rhino (May 9, 2013)

erocker said:


> Money, cars, mansions, girls, luxury yachts... The finer things in life. You missed out bro.



damnit. BITCOOOOOOOOOIIIINNNNNNNNNNSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!

back in 2011 reading through some of the older bitcoin threads, a high-end 5000 series amd gpu could mine about 700 coins per month. coins were worth $1.05. Some people on these forums will have made 100x their money...


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## n-ster (May 13, 2013)

if I had kept my bitcoins I would be 60+k richer


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## silkstone (May 13, 2013)

I had 8 bitcoins that I had put in tradehill before they closed down. I sold them, with the intention of buying them back as the price was going down, but the site closed and I lost them all 

I finally got a refund from them of 0.22 bitcoins


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## Xenturion (May 13, 2013)

I had been somewhat interested in BitCoins a while back. It's not a bad gig if you've got 7000-Series Radeons or even 5000-Series & 6000-Series with a little more lost on power usage. Sadly, Nvidia's architectures aren't ideal for hashing and my 2 480's wouldn't do much in terms of profitability after you factor out the insane heat.

And then I found these:
https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage/5-gh-s-bitcoin-miner.html

Along with a forum thread that indicated that while Butterfly labs had begun shipping, they're backed up 60,000 units on preorders alone. Maybe if I had found out about these months in advance, I could've gotten my hands on one, but as it stands, the bitcoin mining landscape will be radically altered by the time a new order ships. If the 5 GHashes/S and 30W power consumption can be verified, they're going to dramatically increase 'difficulty'. I did some calculations based on current trade values/difficulty and these units can pay for themselves after about 2 weeks.


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## Easy Rhino (May 13, 2013)

n-ster said:


> if I had kept my bitcoins I would be 60+k richer



it amazes me how many people JUST ON THIS FORUM ALONE would have tens of thousands of dollars had we actually saved our bitcoin wallet files. lmao. but who knew...


----------



## silkstone (May 13, 2013)

I had an inkling, but after losing a bunch of my bitcoins and with the price crashing, I kinda lost interest.

I would have probably cashed out at $20 anyway, as I am sure a lot of other people did/would have.

There are serious technical issues with Bitcoin and it isn;t really suited to wide adaptation, but as a small scale market, I'm sure it will only become more popular.


----------



## theJesus (May 13, 2013)

I really regret not buying a bunch back when I first started reading and they were worth $5-$10 like I had originally considered doing . . . But at the time, I didn't have much in the way of a job and investing a couple hundred dollars would have been too risky.  God damn I fucking missed out.


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## n-ster (May 14, 2013)

lol when I started it was 80cents


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## silkstone (May 14, 2013)

I'm sure there are.many people around with very deep regrets. But it's not like you can see into the future. I personally thought they would take much longer to take off.


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## NinkobEi (May 14, 2013)

When it comes to Bitcoins the answer is simple: look but don't touch.

Also there is this. I'm sure the TPU F&Homers feel the same way. 
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2013/05/th...-computer-network-is-being-wasted-on-bitcoin/


> The World’s Most Powerful Computer Network Is Being Wasted on Bitcoin
> Eric Limer -
> 
> Bitcoin mining machines are insane powerhouses, and they’re only getting crazier. How much power is getting sunk into the digital cryptocurrency? More than the world’s top 500 supercomputers combined. What a waste.
> ...


----------



## Xenturion (May 14, 2013)

I pretty much immediately think the same thing when Bitcoin mining is brought up by my friends. I'd much rather see the resources go to projects like WCG and F@H. I knew there was a lot dedicated to mining, but I had no idea it was such a massive amount. Maybe when GPU mining is completely obsolete thanks to the ASICs and FPGAs people will recognize the value their GPUs represent to the various compute projects. Convincing them to shoulder the electricity costs without additional benefit of income from mining is probably the biggest obstacle.


----------



## Nordic (May 14, 2013)

Xenturion said:


> I pretty much immediately think the same thing when Bitcoin mining is brought up by my friends. I'd much rather see the resources go to projects like WCG and F@H. I knew there was a lot dedicated to mining, but I had no idea it was such a massive amount. Maybe when GPU mining is completely obsolete thanks to the ASICs and FPGAs people will recognize the value their GPUs represent to the various compute projects. Convincing them to shoulder the electricity costs without additional benefit of income from mining is probably the biggest obstacle.


Gpu mining is still good for a little bit with the prices where they are. I can't imagine it being good much longer with asics coming though. Once gpu mining really becomes obsolete I wonder what will happen too all the cards. I wonder how many will be put into folding/crunching just because they have them. I wonder how many good cheap gpu's will flood the market too.


----------



## ShiBDiB (May 14, 2013)

My big question is has the cost in power/hardware been eclipsed by the gains yet? If not then this seems like someone mining for fools gold.


----------



## Nordic (May 14, 2013)

ShiBDiB said:


> My big question is has the cost in power/hardware been eclipsed by the gains yet? If not then this seems like someone mining for fools gold.




Look at the green line. As long as that is above .2 is is quite profitable for me to mine. Thats just power costs. I am useing hardware I already had.


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## ShiBDiB (May 14, 2013)

hmm if only nvidia didnt suck at this


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## NinkobEi (May 14, 2013)

I hope everyone is watching, Bitcoin is crashing hard as we speak.
edit: crap its stabilized


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (May 14, 2013)

Bitcoins are stabilizing. The problem was everyone was/is treating them as an investment. I know I did. I bought at $7 and sold at $220. Never mined a single coin, all transactions through mtgox.com. Was quite a profitable and crazy ride. Now that they have semi stabilized I see this being more of a currency and less of a high risk/high yield stock.


For those that are interested there is a new coin out called LiteCoin. Check it out.


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## Nordic (May 14, 2013)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Bitcoins are stabilizing. The problem was everyone was/is treating them as an investment. I know I did. I bought at $7 and sold at $220. Never mined a single coin, all transactions through mtgox.com. Was quite a profitable and crazy ride. Now that they have semi stabilized I see this being more of a currency and less of a high risk/high yield stock.
> 
> 
> For those that are interested there is a new coin out called LiteCoin. Check it out.



I doubt we have seen the last of crazy spikes.

Litecoin is not new at all.


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## NinkobEi (May 14, 2013)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Now that they have semi stabilized I see this being more of a currency and less of a high risk/high yield stock.



Um, they are definitely high risk. Have you paid attention to them over the past month? They *will* crash sooner or later. If you think they will go back to $250 I think you are kidding yourself. No, there's really only one direction for this artificial currency to go.

edit: for the love of god don't encourage people to buy in to this - or any other type of false currency. Scamming 101  - this will end badly.

edit 2: welp, looks like it is back to crashing. over 5% loss in the last 2 hours


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## MT Alex (May 15, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> Um, they are definitely high risk. Have you paid attention to them over the past month? They *will* crash sooner or later. If you think they will go back to $250 I think you are kidding yourself. No, there's really only one direction for this artificial currency to go.
> 
> edit: for the love of god don't encourage people to buy in to this - or any other type of false currency. Scamming 101  - this will end badly.
> 
> edit 2: welp, looks like it is back to crashing. over 5% loss in the last 2 hours



Because the Fed issues real currency?  I think you need to change your adjectives.


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## NinkobEi (May 15, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> Because the Fed issues real currency?  I think you need to change your adjectives.



I'm open to suggestions. At least the fed can back-up its currency.

edit: the price of bitcoins has now fallen 10% today. How does that stack up to the dollar?


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## Nordic (May 15, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> I'm open to suggestions. At least the fed can back-up its currency.
> 
> edit: the price of bitcoins has now fallen 10% today. How does that stack up to the dollar?



The dollar has the fed stabilizing it from such swings. Bitcoin being unregulated, 10% is nothing but another day. Talk to me when there is a 25-30% drop in one day.


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## NinkobEi (May 15, 2013)

james888 said:


> The dollar has the fed stabilizing it from such swings. Bitcoin being unregulated, 10% is nothing but another day. Talk to me when there is a 25-30% drop in one day.



You mean like that day it dropped from $250 to $150?


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## Nordic (May 15, 2013)

How about $20 to $250 in less than a month?


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## ZenZimZaliben (May 15, 2013)

Some people are risk adverse...this clearly isn't the thing for those types of people, and honestly coming in saying it dropped a "whole X%" means nothing to the people willing to risk it...because just as it drops quickly it can rise quickly. This is exactly how penny stocks work. Course we are dealing with far more then pennies now. Same exact premises though. Also I would never suggest someone invest all their life savings on Bitcoins, or penny stocks. Don't gamble what you can't afford to lose.


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## The Von Matrices (May 15, 2013)

james888 said:


> The dollar has the fed stabilizing it from such swings. Bitcoin being unregulated, 10% is nothing but another day. Talk to me when there is a 25-30% drop in one day.



As bitcoin becomes more accepted for purchasing items and its value increases, then its price variability will decrease.  The bitcoin speculators are the the ones to blame for the volatility since they are the ones that hold most of the coins.  Once consumers and businesses hold most of the coins, then speculation will only account for a small part of the market and the price will stabilize.

I personally am mining and accumulating bitcoins because I am frustrated with the U.S. Federal Reserve keeping interest rates near zero percent.  There is no safe way to make money by investing anymore.  My USD savings account earns less than 0.1% APY.  The only way to make considerable money in USD is in the stock market, which is no less volatile than the bitcoin market.


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## NinkobEi (May 15, 2013)

People also aren't getting this - if you bought at $5 and sell at $250, somebody just bought in at $250. Someone exactly like you has just committed to a much more high risk purchase than the one you initially made. That risk gets passed up and up and up until somebody is left holding the bag, and effectively the people who profited stole every dollar from the idiot at the end.

Bitcoin is a commodity not a currency. It has nothing of value behind it to back it up, just speculation. Its your right to do with your money what you want. I just thought I would offer some free financial advice. Hopefully you don't get hacked because there is no safety measure in place for that.


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## silkstone (May 15, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> Bitcoin is a commodity not a currency. It has nothing of value behind it to back it up, just speculation. Its your right to do with your money what you want. I just thought I would offer some free financial advice. Hopefully you don't get hacked because there is no safety measure in place for that.



Aren't all currencies like this?


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## The Von Matrices (May 15, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> People also aren't getting this - if you bought at $5 and sell at $250, somebody just bought in at $250. Someone exactly like you has just committed to a much more high risk purchase than the one you initially made. That risk gets passed up and up and up until somebody is left holding the bag, and effectively the people who profited stole every dollar from the idiot at the end.
> 
> Bitcoin is a commodity not a currency. It has nothing of value behind it to back it up, just speculation. Its your right to do with your money what you want. I just thought I would offer some free financial advice. Hopefully you don't get hacked because there is no safety measure in place for that.



Regarding your first argument, you could make that argument for _any_ investment, be it gold, the stock market, or even other currencies.  I don't understand why you think in this regard Bitcoin is any different from these investments.  For example, in the stock market you rarely buy or sell stock from any company directly; instead, you pass the stock on to someone else, and if the company fails, then whoever is the last one holding the stock has a worthless asset.

I'm also not sure you understand how modern currencies work.  There is nothing to "back up" modern currency other than the belief of its holders that it has value.  In that sense Bitcoin is no different than any other widely accepted currency.  The main difference between Bitcoin and other currencies at the moment is that few retailers accept Bitcoin, so the main use for it is to trade it for other currencies and thus it is speculative.  When more retailers accept Bitcoin, its price will stabilize and it will become indistinguishable from other commonly accepted currencies.


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## Bow (May 15, 2013)

I have been thinking off and on about jumping into a mining pool.  But I just don't know???


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## ZenZimZaliben (May 15, 2013)

Bow said:


> I have been thinking off and on about jumping into a mining pool.  But I just don't know???



Mining is pretty much risk free. However there are so many people mining now that the systems overall complexity has risen to a very high level. What used to take a month to generate a Bitcoin Block now takes much longer. You can still make money off it but you are going to need a serious crunching PC (Think 2-4 7970's in each machine), preferably multiple miners all working together, to make any serious profit.


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## Aquinus (May 15, 2013)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Mining is pretty much risk free. However there are so many people mining now that the systems overall complexity has risen to a very high level. What used to take a month to generate a Bitcoin Block now takes much longer. You can still make money off it but you are going to need a serious crunching PC (Think 2-4 7970's in each machine), preferably multiple miners all working together, to make any serious profit.



Consider the money spent on electricity to gather bitcoins as well.


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## Peter1986C (May 15, 2013)

All those resources (including, but not limited to: time, commitment, materials for the hardware, and energy) to mine bitcoins could also go to (including, but not limited to) F@H, WCG, POEM@home, DistrRTGen. All of them not giving "money" in return, but all of them more worthwile causes. And those do not "boost" trading in illegal goods.


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## silkstone (May 15, 2013)

I doubt bitcoins really "boost" trading in illegal goods, they just make it more convenient if you have the know how.

I barely spent any time on it. I think I made 8 BTC in a month, which I got returned to be as around .22 BTC (eventually) I had about .1 BTC which I sold at at $210 and bought back at $120.

With my new found wealth i got a $50 Newegg card, which goes some way to mitigating the dissapointment at not keeping my original 8 BTC and making $2000.

I am extremely jealous of all those newfound millionaires (and slightly bitter too).

I was doing folding, SETI and WCG before I heard about bitcoins, but the power bills were oppressive. Later on I did 1/2 and 1/2 before just giving up and forgetting about them.

I still don't think it will really take off, unless some well established escrow type services (paypal) get behind it. For people to have full trust in the system, there needs to be some kind of accountability.

[Edit] Prepare yourselves for another big crash: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/05/feds-seize-money-from-top-bitcoin-exchange-mt-gox/


----------



## Nordic (May 15, 2013)

silkstone said:


> I still don't think it will really take off, unless some well established escrow type services (paypal) get behind it.



Already exists sorta.

https://coinbase.com/

http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital...bs-5m-in-biggest-funding-for-bitcoin-startup/


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## NinkobEi (May 15, 2013)

silkstone said:


> Aren't all currencies like this?



If your money is in a bank that gets robbed, the government will replace it for you for free. The US Dollar has Gold and other assets behind it that give it value. Bitcoin has, uh, magic trading cards? It is only worth what other people (you) agree it is worth.


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## Nordic (May 15, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> If your money is in a bank that gets robbed, the government will replace it for you for free. The US Dollar has Gold and other assets behind it that give it value. Bitcoin has, uh, magic trading cards? It is only worth what other people (you) agree it is worth.



Bitcoin -> Users of bitcoins and the bitcoin market trading etc etc etc -> Nothing.
Dollar -> Full faith and credit of the US government -> Nothing

There is no gold or other assets behind the dollar. There is only a printer of more dollars and inflation.

The dollar is safer, no one disagrees on that. That could give reason for people to value it higher. In the end all value is subjective. The full faith and credit of the US government is not as appealing as it was before though. How many trillion now in debt? Insert general complaint about quantitative easing.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 15, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> All thoseresources (including, but not limited to: time, commitment, materials for the hardware, and energy) to mine bitcoins could also go to (including, but not limited to) F@H, WCG, POEM@home, DistrRTGen. All of them not giving "money" in return, but all of them more worthwile causes. And those do not "boost" trading in illegal goods.



That's exactly what I was doing the whole time this was growing,  im going to sort my life issues and return to folding as far too many people NEED something folding will make happen sooner , its tgat simple and I might be in need myself one day.

I might have chosen different had i forseen the potential but tbh I'm not bothered id have it spent so fast on more tech itd be silly me sat with twelve pcs all mineing in my bedroom


----------



## The Von Matrices (May 15, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> All those resources (including, but not limited to: time, commitment, materials for the hardware, and energy) to mine bitcoins could also go to (including, but not limited to) F@H, WCG, POEM@home, DistrRTGen. All of them not giving "money" in return, but all of them more worthwile causes. And those do not "boost" trading in illegal goods.



I don't disagree that the others are good ways to invest compute power, but bitcoin has merit other than making profit.  For example, bitcoin would eliminate the credit card and cash processing industry.  The prices we pay at any store are already inflated by a few percent to pay the middle men who handle cash or credit cards.  Bitcoin is a direct payment method with no middle man.  Think of the amount of money that could be saved if the world adopted Bitcoin.  If even a fraction of that money saved was devoted to research that those other pools perform, it would dwarf any computational investment that could be made by switching Bitcoin miners to those causes.

Also, don't forget that the early adopters of most technology are the usually ones that have have the most unscrupulous goods.  For example, the porn industry usually embraces technology before the general public.  Think of VHS, Blu-ray, the Internet, etc.  Does this make the aforementioned items morally wrong?  No, because the technologies evolve and are primarily used for better purposes now.  Bitcoin is evolving the same way.



NinkobEi said:


> If your money is in a bank that gets robbed, the government will replace it for you for free. The US Dollar has Gold and other assets behind it that give it value. Bitcoin has, uh, magic trading cards? It is only worth what other people (you) agree it is worth.



That's assuming that whatever government insures the money.  In the U.S. it's generally true, but then again that's only up to $250,000 and only if the bank is FDIC insured.  That insurance costs money, and therefore you get lower interest rates because of it.  Also, the U.S. dollar has had no gold backing since October 1976.  It is only protected by the "full faith and credit of the U.S. government".  If the U.S. government fails, however unlikely that is, well then good luck getting anything for your dollars.



Bow said:


> I have been thinking off and on about jumping into a mining pool.  But I just don't know???



That's never a bad idea if you already have a AMD graphics card, but I would highly suggest not buying hardware just to mine coins.  ASIC miners which are 100x more energy efficient than graphics cards will be coming soon and they will make any purchased hardware obsolete before it repays its initial cost.


----------



## Easy Rhino (May 16, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> That's never a bad idea if you already have a AMD graphics card, but I would highly suggest not buying hardware just to mine coins.  ASIC miners which are 100x more energy efficient than graphics cards will be coming soon and they will make any purchased hardware obsolete before it repays its initial cost.



not to mention once these start flooding the market the difficulty of coins is going to skyrocket. if you aren't in now then don't bother.


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## ZenZimZaliben (May 16, 2013)

I am amazed there are people out there that still think the American Dollar is backed up by gold....

Please read this. http://economics.about.com/cs/money/a/gold_standard.htm

Then read on Fiat Money. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money 

That's right...WORTHLESS except for Perceived Value by the public.

This happened a long time ago. The American dollar is only worth what it the public/world perceive its value to be. This is exactly the same as Bitcoins and almost every other currency in the world. They are worth what the world thinks they are worth but are truly worth nothing.


----------



## MT Alex (May 16, 2013)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> I am amazed there are people out there that still think the American Dollar is backed up by gold....
> 
> Please read this. http://economics.about.com/cs/money/a/gold_standard.htm
> 
> ...



Nice post, the gross ignorance some hold about central currencies is frustrating, to say the least.

Bitcoin is actually one step ahead of the USD in the fact that there is only a finite amount of them in circulation, it's this scarcity that creates their value.   The Federal Reserve (which is a privately owned group of central bankers that have nothing to do with the Federal Government) can and does flood the market with as many dollars as they see fit.  The don't call him Helicopter Ben for nothing.  I won't even mention the fact that the Fed creates these dollars out of thin air, and then loans them to the US government and charges interest.  It is one of the greatest Ponzi schemes ever enacted.


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## Peter1986C (May 16, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> Bitcoin is actually one step ahead of the USD in the fact that there is only a finite amount of them in circulation, it's this scarcity that creates their value



This is also true for the USD. The value will drop if you bring more of it in circulation (causing inflation). If old coins or bills are taken out of circulation without new copies as "refreshment", the value will increase. And I know that the Golden Standard has been dropped decades ago.

BTW, the USD is one of the most falsified currencies in the world AFAIK.


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## MT Alex (May 17, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> This is also true for the USD. The value will drop if you bring more of it in circulation (causing inflation). If old coins or bills are taken out of circulation without new copies as "refreshment", the value will increase.



Sorry, but you're incorrect.  For a very simple example, I'm pretty sure you've heard of quantitative easing.  Well, the Fed isn't buying those bonds and assests with money it's been saving, it creates more out of thin air.  It also does this every time the government wants to spend more money, but hey, who's keeping track?


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## Jack1n (May 17, 2013)

If the USD isent backed up by gold any more then what did they do with all the gold in fort knox?


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## The Von Matrices (May 17, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> This is also true for the USD. The value will drop if you bring more of it in circulation (causing inflation). If old coins or bills are taken out of circulation without new copies as "refreshment", the value will increase.



The difference is that there only ever will be 21 million bitcoins in circulation, and no one can change that.  The U.S. Federal Reserve, however, can decide how many U.S. dollars it wants in circulation by destroying or printing more money.



Jack1n said:


> If the USD isent backed up by gold any more then what did they do with all the gold in fort knox?



It's still owned by the government; it's just a government asset now instead of a reserve for the dollar.  Theoretically the government could sell it all for something else if it wanted.


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## NinkobEi (May 17, 2013)

Found an interesting explanation:





> The value of Bitcoins is (like any fiat currency) ultimately driven by supply and demand. With dollars, the supply is controlled by the Federal Reserve, and the demand is driven by the size of the US economy. The supply of Bitcoins grows automatically, asymptotically approaching 21 million, and the demand for Bitcoins is driven by the volume of Bitcoin-denominated transactions.



And then you run into interesting problems like this one where a guy ends up paying 30 BTC in transaction fees:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1eh57i/messed_up_transaction_feeplease_help/


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## MT Alex (May 17, 2013)

That's a great cartoon.  Perhaps you could find others for this list, too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States


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## The Von Matrices (May 17, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> That's a great cartoon.  Perhaps you could find others for this list, too?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States



I think this link might be more appropriate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stock_market_crashes


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## NinkobEi (May 17, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> That's a great cartoon.  Perhaps you could find others for this list, too?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States





The Von Matrices said:


> I think this link might be more appropriate
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stock_market_crashes



So out of curiosity, are you two invested in Bitcoin at all?


----------



## The Von Matrices (May 17, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> So out of curiosity, are you two invested in Bitcoin at all?



Yes, I mine with my 3 7970s (~2.15 GHash/s) and I have about 10 coins that I don't plan to sell any time soon.  I also have a 5 GHash/s Butteryfly Labs ASIC miner on order.


----------



## Caenlen29 (May 17, 2013)

W1zzard said:


> i looked at this for about 30 seconds and it seems to be a get rich quick scheme for the people running it.
> 
> how many *US DOLLARS* have you been *paid* doing anything with it ? and how much did you pay to generate that income?



If you are living in a dorm room at college for 4 years, this is a great way to make money, just have 2x 7990's mining at all times, college pays the electricity bill.


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## Peter1986C (May 17, 2013)

Caenlen29 said:


> college pays the electricity bill.



Keep on dreaming lad, that is only true when living on-campus studying at some superexpensive (US?) institute. I pay the bills myself.


----------



## WhiteLotus (May 17, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> Keep on dreaming lad, that is only true when living on-campus studying at some superexpensive (US?) institute. I pay the bills myself.



I stayed in Halls all my Uni life because I get the all the bills paid for. And the University I go to, is well, a bit rubbish.


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## Nordic (May 17, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> Keep on dreaming lad, that is only true when living on-campus studying at some superexpensive (US?) institute. I pay the bills myself.



The cheap community college in my town has dorms that pay for electricity.


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## Aquinus (May 17, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> Keep on dreaming lad, that is only true when living on-campus studying at some superexpensive (US?) institute. I pay the bills myself.



Don't talk about what you don't know. I went to a state university here in the US and the university took care of all utility costs when I lived on campus for 3 semesters, but I'm sure they factor that into your room and board which can cost just as much as tuition depending on where you go. Not to say the price is directly impacted but if the campus in general uses more electricity you will probably see what you're paying the school go up.


----------



## Peter1986C (May 17, 2013)

Fair enough.


----------



## Caenlen29 (May 17, 2013)

Aquinus said:


> Don't talk about what you don't know. I went to a state university here in the US and the university took care of all utility costs when I lived on campus for 3 semesters, but I'm sure they factor that into your room and board which can cost just as much as tuition depending on where you go. Not to say the price is directly impacted but if the campus in general uses more electricity you will probably see what you're paying the school go up.



My college was a set a price each year, not to mention it didn't matter as it was on a scholarship, so my room and board was free.  If I had known about Bitcoin then I probably would have grabbed me some top notch gpu's lol


----------



## NinkobEi (Jun 10, 2013)

Looking pretty stable there, Bitcoiners


----------



## Nordic (Jun 10, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> Looking pretty stable there, Bitcoiners
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/QXfsO1r.jpg



Your point?


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jun 10, 2013)

on high volume days it drops. that is not a good sign.


----------



## Nordic (Jun 10, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> on high volume days it drops. that is not a good sign.



Its a crash. Price was a bit high. It happens and should be expected to happen.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Jun 19, 2013)

Just in case anyone is looking to pick up cheap graphics cards, the end of GPU mining is here.  

If electricity is 15¢/kWh, there is no longer any profit to be made mining with a 40nm GPU (HD 5000/6000 series).  For people like me where electricity is really cheap (7.7¢/kWh). I calculated that I should turn off my 6970 when difficulty reaches 30 million, which should happen within a month. 

The 28nm HD 7000 series should last a little longer, but I calculated a difficulty of 40-60 million (15¢/kWh to 7.7¢/kWh) being unprofitable, which would be sometime around late July if the current trend of difficulty increase continues. 

Look for a flood of GPUs on the market in the coming months causing used GPU prices to crash.  Keep your eye on the market and you might be able to snag a good deal.


----------



## Nordic (Jun 19, 2013)

I am thinking 2 months for me


----------



## silkstone (Jun 19, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> Just in case anyone is looking to pick up cheap graphics cards, the end of GPU mining is here.
> 
> If electricity is 15¢/kWh, there is no longer any profit to be made mining with a 40nm GPU (HD 5000/6000 series).  For people like me where electricity is really cheap (7.7¢/kWh). I calculated that I should turn off my 6970 when difficulty reaches 30 million, which should happen within a month.
> 
> ...



unless the price spikes again


----------



## Nordic (Jun 19, 2013)

silkstone said:


> unless the price spikes again



Needs a big spike Asics should bring more bitcoins into existence faster than the difficulty rises for a bit flooding the market. Price should go down with the flood of asics.


----------



## NinkobEi (Jun 19, 2013)

So outside of batshit insane penny stock investment, what good are Bitcoins, what can you purchase with them? Just drugs/porn on the silk road? Why do they have value?


----------



## silkstone (Jun 19, 2013)

I got a $50 newegg voucher, with the little amount I had remaining, from a bitcoin auction site.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Jun 19, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> So outside of batshit insane penny stock investment, what good are Bitcoins, what can you purchase with them? Just drugs/porn on the silk road? Why do they have value?



The more you post like this with the same argument over and over the more I'm beginning to suspect that you actually are very interested in Bitcoin.  Are you one of the people who post bad news about Bitcoin (or any investment) in order to make its price drop, thus allowing you to buy cheap and profit after the price returns to normal?


----------



## NinkobEi (Jun 19, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> The more you post like this with the same argument over and over the more I'm beginning to suspect that you actually are very interested in Bitcoin.  Are you one of the people who post bad news about Bitcoin (or any investment) in order to make its price drop, thus allowing you to buy cheap and profit after the price returns to normal?



No thanks. I wouldn't touch bitcoin if it were the last commodity on earth. 

The so-called 'market manipulators' do exist though and prey on common folk who do actually buy in to bitcoin, or the ASIC miners. There are so many bitcoin scams out there right now its unbeleivable. The whole thing is a ponzi scheme on top of a pyramid scheme.

Look at this guy selling a BFL Miner. These things cost $2500 from BFL (the company is also a semi-scam but that's another story) and he's demanding 25k for it on ebay. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190857744643?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649


> Important Details:
> If it sales for more than 30K, I will throw in the Gold 1200 Watt Corsair Power Supply for free (Lower 48 in U.S. only).
> 
> For every 1K under 25K on the final sales price will cause a delay in shipping by one week. Please do not bid if you have a problem with this!


----------



## The Von Matrices (Jun 19, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> Look at this guy selling a BFL Miner. These things cost $2500 from BFL (the company is also a semi-scam but that's another story) and he's demanding 25k for it on ebay.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/190857744643?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649



I didn't see that listing before, but I completely agree that it is outrageous.   I like eBay for selling less expensive items, but as with a lot of expensive eBay listings, I would be willing to bet that none of the bidders are legitimate.

There are a lot of people looking to scam uninformed idiots out of money, and the promise of Bitcoin is the latest way to lure them.  However, unlike most scams, there are legitimate ways to make more modest amounts of money using the same techniques.  But I think what is missed is that whatever people are buying the $20,000 miner are the same people that could have been just as easily duped by a 419 scheme or some other fraud.  I don't think these fools are unique to Bitcoin.  

As for BFL being untrustworthy, I agree with you as well.  I have an outstanding order for a 5GH/s ASIC miner, and of course it's delayed.  Even better, BFL just sent me an email telling me that I could upgrade to a 7GH/s miner if I was willing to put down a non-refundable pre-order, meaning I couldn't even cancel the order if was scheduled to ship after it became unprofitable to use.  I am seriously considering cancelling my 5GH/s miner and waiting until products are actually in stock (at any company) before placing another.


----------



## McSteel (Jun 19, 2013)

When will everyone realize that there will *NEVER* be any ASIC miners up for actual sale?

Why slay a golden goose?

All these people do is take out loans with 0% interest, because after a while, pretty much everyone just gives up and takes their refund. After their money has been put to very good use, developing the ASIC, which it's creator(s) will go on to using themselves.

Why would I sell you a 250 GH/s machine for even $50k? I could mine at the very least that much in a month!


----------



## xvi (Jun 20, 2013)

McSteel said:


> Why would I sell you a 250 GH/s machine for even $50k? I could mine at the very least that much in a month!



An ASIC design would be incredibly expensive to only build a couple of. Mass production brings the cost down.

If I had to guess, they're selling these because once they hit, difficulty will go up and mined production will go down. Transaction fees that pay the rewards are a fixed value. Your share of that value depends on your ability to be better than everyone else. Once these hit, the "average" will rise. Everyone spending money on expensive ASIC machines are doing so just to keep up with the average.


----------



## McSteel (Jun 20, 2013)

But I don't care about the production cost, seeing how sheep keep throwing money at me even after I don't deliver for a god damn year and a half! So I have money to spare for development and low-production runs.

I ask again, why slay the golden goose, just to get one egg out of it?

Never. Gonna. Happen.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Jun 20, 2013)

McSteel said:


> But I don't care about the production cost, seeing how sheep keep throwing money at me even after I don't deliver for a god damn year and a half! So I have money to spare for development and low-production runs.
> 
> I ask again, why slay the golden goose, just to get one egg out of it?
> 
> Never. Gonna. Happen.



The core problem is that the ASIC miners are underpriced for what they do.  That $20000 miner on eBay might be overpriced but it shouldn't be selling for its MSRP either.  There is not enough incentive for the manufacturers to sell them compared to using them for themselves.  There will eventually be a price where it the expected gain (counting in all the risks) of using the ASICs to mine coins is less or equal to that of selling the ASICs, but the current prices of the ASIC miners don't justify this yet.


----------



## NinkobEi (Jun 20, 2013)

I hope none of you have coins in mt. gox. a lot can happen to bitcoin value in 2 weeks! Though I guess you can withdraw in other currencies. I wonder what this is really about

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20130620.html



> TOKYO - JAPAN - June 20th, 2013
> 
> Over the past weeks Mt. Gox has experienced rising volumes of deposits and withdrawals from established and upcoming markets interested in Bitcoin. This increased volume has made it difficult for our bank to process the transactions smoothly and within a timely manner, which has created unnecessary delays for our global customers. This is especially so for those in the United States who are requesting wire transfer withdrawals from their accounts.
> 
> ...


----------



## Nordic (Jun 20, 2013)

I use campbx myself. I got tired of gox's shenanigans weeks ago.

For someone who is supposedly against bitcoins you sure seem to pay attention to it more than I do.


----------



## NinkobEi (Jun 20, 2013)

james888 said:


> I use campbx myself. I got tired of gox's shenanigans weeks ago.
> 
> For someone who is supposedly against bitcoins you sure seem to pay attention to it more than I do.



I've been reading another thread that laughs at how ridiculous bitcoiners can be on sites like bitcointalk and even reddit. People getting scammed, FYGM people defending the scammers, people who think bitcoins are the future of currency. It is all really quite hilarious. Pretty much anything entertaining gets posted. That said I don't like to watch TPUers get scammed so I come here to discourage them from investing


----------



## Nordic (Jun 21, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> I've been reading another thread that laughs at how ridiculous bitcoiners can be on sites like bitcointalk and even reddit. People getting scammed, FYGM people defending the scammers, people who think bitcoins are the future of currency. It is all really quite hilarious. Pretty much anything entertaining gets posted. That said I don't like to watch TPUers get scammed so I come here to discourage them from investing



Bitcointalk is a joke. I got good laughs from it either. Look up the pirate bitcoin scandal if you want a real scam.

I have invested in bitcoins myself and have made a good bit. I only wish I had more to invest. As long as your smart about it and all that.


----------



## Morgoth (Jun 21, 2013)

only way i see to make money is to rent out servers.. i used to do bitcoin mining, but i find the trading to euros realy hard, even as i cant pay with gold at my local stores..


----------



## NinkobEi (Jul 2, 2013)

The week in bitcoin. I'm starting to see a trend!


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jul 2, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> The week in bitcoin. I'm starting to see a trend!
> http://i.imgur.com/6rFy7S9.png



LOL! You are such a troll man...


----------



## NinkobEi (Jul 2, 2013)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> LOL! You are such a troll man...


Trolling a bitcoin thread, impossible!? I've been posting about how bitcoin is a bad investment and have graphs to back it up


----------



## NinkobEi (Jul 2, 2013)

Maybe the bitcoin wiki should be added to the OP? It has a lot of good information

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bitcoin


> The interesting bit about Bitcoin is that it is entirely decentralised; there is no central bank backing. Previous virtual currencies, such as E-Gold, Flooz, Beenz, Lindens or WoW gold, have always had an organisation behind them. This lack of central bank backing means that, were governments to try to do something about it, they would not have a central point of attack.
> 
> Bitcoins are entirely imaginary currency (i.e. they have no use-value), but not particularly more so than US dollars, and could be a general currency if 300 million people similarly behaved as though it was one, i.e., would do work in exchange for it.[3] Its biggest problem as an exchange medium is that it is not widely accepted, and that trading is thus very thin indeed.





> Bitcoin is also an environmental disaster, using 982 megawatt-hours a day literally wasted on computing hashes. That's about 31,000 homes or half a Large Hadron Collider, spent producing nothing of actual value. (Thus, Bitcoin runs on libertarians externalising their costs to others.) If only someone had come up with a distributed currency based on protein folding.





> The trouble with reimplementing the gold standard in the 21st century is that financial attacks, just like cryptographic attacks, don't get less effective with time — if you apply attacks evolved in a hundred years of Red Queen's race against regulation, then remove the regulation, the subeconomy in question is utterly defenceless. As one quant on HackerNews outlined:
> 
> "Bitcoin takes the monetary system back essentially a hundred years. We know how to beat that system. In fact, we know how to nuke it for profit. Bitcoin is volatile, inherently deflationary and has no lender of last resort. Cornering and squeezing would work well - they use mass in a finite trading space. Modern predatory algos like bandsaw (testing markets by raising and suddenly dropping prices), sharktooth (electronically front-running orders), and band-burst (creating self-perpetuating volatile equilibria in a leverage-sensitive trading space, e.g. an inherently deflationary one), would rapidly wreak havoc. There is also a part of me that figures regulators will turn a blind eye to Bitcoin shenanigans."



And my personal favourite...



> In order to prop up the initial system, Bitcoin "mining" was designed to bribe early users with exponentially better rewards than latecomers could get for the same effort. This effectively makes Bitcoin a pump-and-dump scheme wherein these early adopters, who have more bitcoins than anyone else ever will, hype it up so they can offload their bitcoins onto fools who think they'll strike it rich as speculators, or whomever else will accept them as payment. Basically, this means the system runs on opportunism, especially among people who like the idea of decentralized techno-money. Although this setup is defended as an acceptable trade-off and/or a fair reward for propping up the system,[36] this presumes that it will actually result in a widespread, reliable currency.
> 
> In the meantime, speculators and opportunists remain Bitcoin's main users: only 22% of existing Bitcoins are in circulation at all, there are a total of 75 active users/businesses with any kind of volume, the Mt. Gox exchange is responsible for 90% of all Bitcoin transactions ever, one (unidentified) user owns a quarter of all Bitcoins in existence, and one large owner is trying to hide their wealth accumulation by moving it around in thousands of smaller transactions. But go on, dive in and get rich.


----------



## NinkobEi (Jul 4, 2013)

"What has bitcoin been up down to in the last 24 hours?" one might ask. A man has an answer!


----------



## Nordic (Jul 4, 2013)




----------



## NinkobEi (Jul 4, 2013)

james888 said:


>



Gotta say, the bitcoin chart looks similar to this chart


----------



## Nordic (Jul 5, 2013)

How about I compare these to show the point I was trying to convey my point when I did a poor job before.

All data of bitcoins price ever. The Bitcoin bubble of 2013 really dominates the graph.





Bitcoin from beginning to 8-1-2009. Bitcoin bubble 2011 dominates this graph.





They look almost identical. I bet bitcoin will come back but only after dropping really really low like it did before. Bitcoin is a risk. If you are too scared to lose the money then don't invest. I await the bitcoin bubble of 2015 where bitcoin reaches $3000 . First big bubble max was about $30. Second bubble max was short of $300, next bubble.... or wont just to throw me off.


----------



## NinkobEi (Jul 5, 2013)

james888 said:


> How about I compare these to show the point I was trying to convey my point when I did a poor job before.
> 
> All data of bitcoins price ever. The Bitcoin bubble of 2013 really dominates the graph.
> http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/cha...25&x=0&i1=&i2=&i3=&i4=&v=1&cv=0&ps=0&l=0&p=0&
> ...



Only a bitcoiner could think that a market crash of something they are invested in is a good thing. Presuming your theory is correct and that it will hit rock-bottom only to sky rocket again to $3000  Wouldn't it make sense to sell your stock of bitcoins at $130 each then buy in again at $2 each? 

If 409,000 (of 11 million) bitcoins are sold the market value will hit 0 based on mt.gox's dollar charts.

The trend continues!


----------



## Nordic (Jul 5, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> Only a bitcoiner could think that a market crash of something they are invested in is a good thing. Presuming your theory is correct and that it will hit rock-bottom only to sky rocket again to $3000  Wouldn't it make sense to sell your stock of bitcoins at $130 each then buy in again at $2 each?
> 
> If 409,000 (of 11 million) bitcoins are sold the market value will hit 0 based on mt.gox's dollar charts.
> 
> ...



I was simply saying this has happened before and it could go up again or not.


----------



## NinkobEi (Jul 5, 2013)

And the pyramid scheme begins to unfold...

http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/how-t...nity-and-make-its-future-uncertain/2013/06/30



> How the Bitcoin 1% manipulate the currency, deceive its user community, and make its future uncertain
> photo of Michel Bauwens
> 
> Michel Bauwens
> ...


----------



## The Von Matrices (Jul 8, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> And the pyramid scheme begins to unfold...
> 
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/how-t...nity-and-make-its-future-uncertain/2013/06/30



I agree, that could be a problem.  What that article neglects to mention though is that many of these coins not in circulation are in wallets whose passwords have been permanently forgotten.  A lot of early adopters mined coins (it was easy to accumulate a lot of them in the beginning) then gave up in the first few years and lost their wallets or forgot their passwords.  These coins can never be redeemed.  So while the number may indicate that 80% of the coins could be redeemed one day and crash the market, I doubt many of those are actually accessible.


----------



## Darkrealms (Jul 11, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> And the pyramid scheme begins to unfold...
> 
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/how-t...nity-and-make-its-future-uncertain/2013/06/30



You are missing out on such a helpful site...
http://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/

I also watch http://bitcoinity.org/markets and bitcoincharts.com

I've "invested" in btc, not a ton but I did build a mining rig and buy a few a while back.  It was fun watching the ~$32 crash and then again the $266 crash.  Its like the stock market, it will go up and down and at the end of the day I still have nothing physical to look at (yes I know stocks represent a physical company with physical assets). 

My thoughts on the whole thing are if it can take the currency away from government inflation (even a little bit) it might one day be an alternate international currency.  I've invested as much as I'm willing to lose, hell I've bought an ASCII miner with bitcoins (at $18 a coin, oosp!) but thats from what I've already put in not an additional investment.  
At this point my GPUs are mining litecoins, not much point in using them for btc anymore.  If supporting the concept of a distributed currency is a bad thing then I guess I'm bad.  But if one day we have a digital currency that has checks and balances then I think that could be a good thing.


----------



## NinkobEi (Jul 11, 2013)

Honestly, tell me if this doesn't look like market manipulation. This all happened in FIVE MINUTES.


----------



## Darkrealms (Jul 11, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> Honestly, tell me if this doesn't look like market manipulation. This all happened in FIVE MINUTES.
> http://i.imgur.com/o4u9Fd7.png



LoL, I never said the market wasn't being manipulated.  That has been happening since people really found out about btc.  I remember a week that the trade variance (the whole week) wasn't more than 20 cents.
Like I said, I didn't put in more than I was willing to lose.  Digital currency has a lot to learn.  Hopefully this testbed will teach us a lot and if those of us that did get involved are lucky btc will be viable for something long term.
My investment is a 5 year goal, you have no idea how hard it was to not sell out at $255.  So from the end of 2011 to the end of 2016 all I can do is watch, laugh, and hope it was worth it if not monetarily then at least as a test bed for something better.


----------



## NinkobEi (Jul 11, 2013)

Darkrealms said:


> LoL, I never said the market wasn't being manipulated.  That has been happening since people really found out about btc.  I remember a week that the trade variance (the whole week) wasn't more than 20 cents.
> Like I said, I didn't put in more than I was willing to lose.  Digital currency has a lot to learn.  Hopefully this testbed will teach us a lot and if those of us that did get involved are lucky btc will be viable for something long term.
> My investment is a 5 year goal, you have no idea how hard it was to not sell out at $255.  So from the end of 2011 to the end of 2016 all I can do is watch, laugh, and hope it was worth it if not monetarily then at least as a test bed for something better.



So you are comfortable investing in something that you know is being manipulated? If you're wanting to donate money to something there are charities out there that can do a lot more than a bitcoin investment.

If you think you are being a 'noble entrapeneur' by investing in bitcoin, well a lot of people prey on those type of people. Let me ask you, how many bitcoins did you invest in your ASIC miner? How much would that be worth at today's value? There are people out there that literally lost hundreds of thousands of dollars for ASIC miners that to this day, 1 year later, haven't been delivered to their doorstep. 

As more and more drug/weapon dealers on the silk road get busted I think you will see bitcoin die off. But it seems like they are being replaced by wallstreet/marketing gurus that know just how to give a worthless item perceived value. Just look at the Winklevoss bitcoin investment portfolio. Jebus.


----------



## Nordic (Jul 11, 2013)

NinkobEi, if you want something to go on use this. http://bitcoinmagazine.com/the-pirate-saga-and-so-it-ends/


----------



## Darkrealms (Jul 11, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> So you are comfortable investing in something that you know is being manipulated? If you're wanting to donate money to something there are charities out there that can do a lot more than a bitcoin investment.
> 
> If you think you are being a 'noble entrapeneur' by investing in bitcoin, well a lot of people prey on those type of people. Let me ask you, how many bitcoins did you invest in your ASIC miner? How much would that be worth at today's value? There are people out there that literally lost hundreds of thousands of dollars for ASIC miners that to this day, 1 year later, haven't been delivered to their doorstep.
> 
> As more and more drug/weapon dealers on the silk road get busted I think you will see bitcoin die off. But it seems like they are being replaced by wallstreet/marketing gurus that know just how to give a worthless item perceived value. Just look at the Winklevoss bitcoin investment portfolio. Jebus.



It was around 35, I chose to stop remembering when btc went over $100 the first time.  Technically anyone that had an investment in btc when it went over $100 (and then stayed in all the way up to $266) and then back down to $40 something "lost" thousands.  This is an investment in tech, it is not my entire investment portfolio.  Yes I do think a digit currency can be worth something and yes I do see the point in investing in it.
This seems to be where you and I differ, I am fine with that.  

Everyone that has asked me for advice in btc has been given the same answer.  BTC is a digital currency that may or may not succeed.  It is the first wide spread attempt and DO NOT invest more than you are willing to lose (this should be the basis for any investment anyway).

*edit*
Oh, and I have not received any ASCII miners either.  I see the "promises" of them on their way but again my investment may be lost.
*/edit*


----------



## MT Alex (Jul 11, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> ...wallstreet/marketing gurus that know just how to give a worthless item perceived value...



Like mainstream currencies, right?  Honestly, haven't you ever heard of the plunge protection team and the like?  Your fervent dogging of bitcoin makes you appear as though you are somewhat naïve as to how real currencies work.  I'm not sure if that's true, but you could replace USD, BPS or CDN in any of your posts and sound just as competent.  Here's a little hint:  They are ALL Ponzi schemes and at the top there is a small group of people who have more than everyone else combined, and they make it all go round and round.


----------



## NinkobEi (Jul 11, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> Like mainstream currencies, right?  Honestly, haven't you ever heard of the plunge protection team and the like?  Your fervent dogging of bitcoin makes you appear as though you are somewhat naïve as to how real currencies work.  I'm not sure if that's true, but you could replace USD, BPS or CDN in any of your posts and sound just as competent.  Here's a little hint:  They are ALL Ponzi schemes and at the top there is a small group of people who have more than everyone else combined, and they make it all go round and round.



Oh, good point  Except I can go down the street to the gas station and spend my USD currency. Can't do that with bitcoin, therefore it is worthless. If the economy collapses I could at least wipe my ass with a dollar. Bitcoin? Nope!


----------



## MT Alex (Jul 11, 2013)

At least you have a good sense of humor


----------



## Wrigleyvillain (Jul 11, 2013)

Well Alex I guess I am not so surprised you seem to be a BC proponent from a philosophical and even political stand point (which is all well and good imo) but definitely kind of surprising from a pragmatic one given all the details. 

I tend to agree with Nink's view here.


----------



## McSteel (Jul 11, 2013)

I just wanna know if all this ties into the Standard Rulers of the Globe, the Rothschilds, the Warburgs, the Rockefellers, etc.

If not, perhaps we should give it a chance, somehow...


----------



## AphexDreamer (Oct 30, 2013)

I so regret not having backed up my wallet when I did a reformat. 

FML. 

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/oct/29/bitcoin-forgotten-currency-norway-oslo-home

Man buys $27 of bitcoin, forgets about them, finds they're now worth $886k


----------



## Aquinus (Oct 30, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> Except I can go down the street to the gas station and spend my USD currency.



Bingo. On top of that, the "value" of the Bit Coin is pretty volatile, making it a risky investment to begin with. It's almost like a slot machine.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Oct 30, 2013)

AphexDreamer said:


> I so regret not having backed up my wallet when I did a reformat.
> 
> FML.
> 
> ...



There's quite a few people like you out there who have lost the password to wallets with large numbers of coins.  That's why when people mention that they're are many wallets with enough coins to crash the market through a large sale, I don't believe them because most of those wallets were lost through bad password management.

I agree in that I still think they're needs to be a better way to authenticate your identity than a password.  While the few of us who believe in Bitcoin know that we need to keep our wallet info safe, the general public couldn't care less about backups whether it it's Bitcoin or family photos.


----------



## JunkBear (Nov 2, 2013)

*Bitcoins mining hardware*

First can someone explain me where do Bitcoins came from and can you transfer them back to real money? If yes im starting my 4 old computers and start making it  

http://9gag.com/gag/aEwPpg9


----------



## Nordic (Nov 2, 2013)

I'm sorry to say this but your too little too late


----------



## JunkBear (Nov 2, 2013)

I just saw it so it's ok. I'm not spending enough time over technology websites and internet to know all. I have a real life outside computers you know.


----------



## Nordic (Nov 2, 2013)

I did not mean to sound condescending. At this point you need a significant operations similar to the picture you showed to actually get tangible gains from bitcoin mining. I have a real life also .


----------



## JunkBear (Nov 3, 2013)

So you telling me that to mine coins faster you better ask Mario or Sonic?


----------



## Solaris17 (Nov 3, 2013)

pretty much I was very naive a few years ago someone started a thread talking about it when it was new. People were making a couple coins a day. Then the market crashed the prices dropped it wasnt worth doing. they came back made it harder to get them but most sold during the crash now it takes too much power to profit off of it.


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## NinkobEi (Nov 3, 2013)

Let us have a Bitcoin rig post.















and some from buttcoin.org


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## Nordic (Nov 3, 2013)

Most I ever had was 2 6950's, a 7970, and a 5830.


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## qubit (Nov 20, 2013)

*Bitcoin moves beyond mere money*

Bitcoin is money – people can use it to buy anything from pizza to plastic surgery. The meteoric rise of the online currency has caused everyone from financial regulators to law enforcement to the US Senate to stand up and take notice. But a growing group of computer scientists think this is just the beginning. They are convinced that Bitcoin's real value is not in providing the world with a currency free from government intervention, but in the technology which underpins it, a secure system of verifying transactions that they believe has the potential to vastly disrupt the way we exchange goods and services around the world.

The secret to Bitcoin's rampant success is the "block chain" – a secure digital ledger that tracks coins across the internet. It records every single transaction of the currency, and those transactions are then mathematically verified by the computers of Bitcoin users around the world. Anyone who holds bitcoins also has an exact copy of the block chain, making it virtually impossible to create a forgery. This eliminates the need for trusted third parties, like PayPal and Visa, to take part in financial transactions.

Now the block chain is being applied beyond the movement of money using a technique called "colouring" bitcoins. It has the potential to transform commerce. Take the buying and selling of real estate, for example. In a statement before the US Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs on 19 November, Anthony Gallippi, CEO of Bitcoin payment firm BitPay, described how co-opting the block chain could do away with the gaggle of fees and legal manoeuvrings that usually accompany home sales.

Read the rest at New Scientist


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## entropy13 (Nov 28, 2013)

Apparently it's now $1000 per BTC...I have 0.23 BTC in my wallet (I probably spent several hours using a CUDA miner with my GTX 570 then)...I want to cash it in now LOLOLOLOLOL


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## Boneface (Nov 28, 2013)

Im kicking my ass, didnt have cash at the time and used .28 to buy bf4! Had .48 at the time!
Could have made 500$


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## The Von Matrices (Nov 28, 2013)

If you have an AMD card it's worth mining Litecoin at the moment.  It used to be nearly break even but the price has quadrupled in the past week.  My 4 7970s can mine about 0.8 LTC/day, which at current prices is about $30 (on $2.50 of electricity).  The real cost is less since I'm using the heat to heat my house instead of paying for natural gas.  I don't believe that LTC has a future, so I'm selling them immediately for BTC.


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## entropy13 (Nov 28, 2013)

How should I sell bitcoins? lol


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## Boneface (Nov 28, 2013)

Im canadian so i sold mine here https://www.cavirtex.com/home just added my bank acct and waiting for cash to be deposited into it!

Im just waiting to hit the .01 to withdraw then im going to try litecoins


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## NinkobEi (Nov 28, 2013)

entropy13 said:


> How should I sell bitcoins? lol



And there's the problem. There's really no good way to cash out. Best bet is to buy drugs from a black market site and sell them at the local elementary. (obvious sarcasm)


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## Boneface (Nov 28, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> And there's the problem. There's really no good way to cash out. Best bet is to buy drugs from a black market site and sell them at the local elementary. (obvious sarcasm)



I cashed out, on 25th was in my bank acct the next day.


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## entropy13 (Nov 28, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> And there's the problem. There's really no good way to cash out. Best bet is to buy drugs from a black market site and sell them at the local elementary. (obvious sarcasm)



Too much competition from the local syndicates, or the other small-time dealers, which are also 'protected' by the police, who get cuts, as well as the politicians, who are sometimes the drug kingpins too. Suppliers are usually either Chinese (mainland), Taiwanese, or African. Or 'homegrown' using Chinese equipment/ingredients.

So yeah, they're not exactly 'black market' in a sense. Oh well, 3rd World and all of that jazz, where dealing with drugs is easier than dealing with bitcoins.


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## Nordic (Nov 28, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> And there's the problem. There's really no good way to cash out. Best bet is to buy drugs from a black market site and sell them at the local elementary. (obvious sarcasm)


It is not straight forward or similar to the financial system in anyway. Its in its infancy. Give it a break.


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## HammerON (Nov 28, 2013)

I read this article today:
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...d-drive-loses-75-million-bitcoin-fortune?lite=

Felt kind of bad for the fellow.


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## mauriek (Nov 29, 2013)

well..i have been with BTC since 2010 and it always been good to me, at beginning i only use it for buying about 100 legal games for my steam collection and paying for domains, now i can use it for anything else, with the current price and regular monthly cash out, this system really help in this kind of bad economy in our country.


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## entropy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

If anybody here is interested in my 2011 'vintage' of 0.37 BTC, PM me. LOL


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## NinkobEi (Nov 29, 2013)

mauriek said:


> well..i have been with BTC since 2010 and it always been good to me, at beginning i only use it for buying about 100 legal games for my steam collection and paying for domains, now i can use it for anything else, with the current price and regular monthly cash out, this system really help in this kind of bad economy in our country.



What have you bought with bitcoin lately? I'm curious. I still claim its nothing but a huge ponzi scheme. These trading websites dont have near enough money to cash everyone out.


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## Nordic (Nov 29, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> What have you bought with bitcoin lately? I'm curious. I still claim its nothing but a huge ponzi scheme. These trading websites dont have near enough money to cash everyone out.


If everyone tried to cash out the price would drop like lead.


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## MT Alex (Nov 29, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> What have you bought with bitcoin lately? I'm curious. I still claim its nothing but a huge ponzi scheme. These trading websites dont have near enough money to cash everyone out.



Go try to withdraw more than $10000 from your local bank and see what they say.


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## mauriek (Nov 29, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> What have you bought with bitcoin lately? I'm curious. I still claim its nothing but a huge ponzi scheme. These trading websites dont have near enough money to cash everyone out.


actually..i just cash out about $ 1800 today to take profit and restructure my mining and crunching PC, bought Club3D 7950 for LTC mining to help pay for short future electricity bill, and few grams of gold from local pawn shop to pleased my wife.

https://blockchain.info/address/1EfNTwmXtbGGxEzyRmBu5k3LtT1eB5xHy4

1GCfD6jBytMNSyS9wG1zYxhY5ffGCq3EA6 in that blockchain is my wallet address just in case somebody want to donate their "vintage" BTC


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## entropy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Pay up if you want my precious 0.37 BTC. LOL


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## RCoon (Nov 29, 2013)

HammerON said:


> I read this article today:
> http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...d-drive-loses-75-million-bitcoin-fortune?lite=
> 
> Felt kind of bad for the fellow.


 
Implying he ever had those bitcoins, and didn't just say all that crap to make it on the news. Also I thought bitcoins were stored in your e-wallet, not stored locally on a hard drive?


----------



## NinkobEi (Nov 29, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> Go try to withdraw more than $10000 from your local bank and see what they say.



Why wouldn't they say, "Here's your cash mr. dude, can I get you anything else? thank you for banking with us."?


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## Nordic (Nov 29, 2013)

RCoon said:


> Implying he ever had those bitcoins, and didn't just say all that crap to make it on the news. Also I thought bitcoins were stored in your e-wallet, not stored locally on a hard drive?


There are ewallets out there, but primarily bitcoins and the blockchain are on hdd's. This is why you have to take certain security precautions if you have a lot of them.


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## entropy13 (Nov 30, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> Why wouldn't they say, "Here's your cash mr. dude, can I get you anything else? thank you for banking with us."?



No, to be able to get to withdraw that much to begin with you'll have to show a lot of papers and identification. You'll have to wait a few days too.

Unless of course you're a politician or a drug/crime kingpin (or both), and using a fake identity, then that means it'll be done in less than an hour.


That's the case here at least.


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## Nordic (Nov 30, 2013)

I was trying to buy a $3000 car. Saw it for sale on the side of the road. Went to withdraw $3000 cash, but the plan was to bargain him down. I went to my bank and asked to withdraw $3000. They said they had a $2000 limit on daily withdrawals. USA.


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## Nordakbalrem (Dec 1, 2013)

Just my opinion, but if your storing your BTC in an ewallet or on a computer with internet, you are doing it wrong.  And god help you, you will get robbed.

  Create an offline vault and christ sakes make a second copy and keep them both safe


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## Solaris17 (Dec 1, 2013)

im cranking some LTC atm and its not that bad but the market is pretty volatile atm.


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## Nordic (Dec 1, 2013)

Solaris17 said:


> im cranking some LTC atm and its not that bad but the market is pretty volatile atm.


I see volatile as opportunity. Crypocurrencies and volatile are so far synonymous too.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 1, 2013)

james888 said:


> I see volatile as opportunity. Crypocurrencies and volatile are so far synonymous too.



I didnt say I didnt expect it i mean i just watched BTC dive $120 and LTC dipped like $5 such is life though


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## Easy Rhino (Dec 1, 2013)

I would have so much money if i kept that wallet...


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## Solaris17 (Dec 1, 2013)

So btc is free falling


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## mauriek (Dec 2, 2013)

nah..it stabilizing now, just normal correction, with a lot of money from investor pouring for the last few weeks/month there will be time for correction, for profit taking or else. 
And i just read news ticker that US reserve bank print extra $7B this year? if that's true then BTC investor should be cautious.


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## Octopuss (Dec 2, 2013)

Is this (either BTC or LTC) worth it at all if one doesn't have dedicated machine running 24/7? How much can you realistically make in a month? About as much as in one day in a job?


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## NinkobEi (Dec 2, 2013)

Octopuss said:


> Is this (either BTC or LTC) worth it at all if one doesn't have dedicated machine running 24/7? How much can you realistically make in a month? About as much as in one day in a job?



You can check it here. If you bought a 7950 for mining you would literally never break even - at the current bitcoin value anyway.
http://www.coinish.com/calc/

Bitcoins Donchian channel:
"The Donchian channel is a useful indicator for seeing the volatility of a market price. If a price is stable the Donchian channel will be relatively narrow. If the price fluctuates a lot the Donchian channel will be wider. Its primary use, however, is for providing signals for long and short positions. If a security trades above its highest _n_ periods high, then a long is established. If it trades below its lowest _n_ periods low, then a short is established."


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## mauriek (Dec 2, 2013)

Octopuss said:


> Is this (either BTC or LTC) worth it at all if one doesn't have dedicated machine running 24/7? How much can you realistically make in a month? About as much as in one day in a job?


Rough calculation for LTC, at $20-30/LTC,  a single 7950 running 24h/day will give you $5-8/day or $0.2-0.3 per hour.


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## NinkobEi (Dec 2, 2013)

mauriek said:


> Rough calculation for LTC, at $20-30/LTC,  a single 7950 running 24h/day will give you $5-8/day or $0.2-0.3 per hour.



is that after electricity costs or before


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## Octopuss (Dec 2, 2013)

That much?

Electricity cost is irrelevant to me. I currently have 5850 in my machine and my father in law's laptop with 6770m, but the former is getting upgraded to 280x. I might give this a shot...


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## mauriek (Dec 2, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> is that after electricity costs or before


that before electricity cost, for me a single 7950 at 24/7 electricity cost maximum $17/month, usually only cost an average of $13/mo, so for a single 7950 my lowest acceptable LTC price is around $2-3, anything above that will speed up the break even for hardware cost.  With current LTC difficulty and the diff rising, i calculate 7950 will still be profitable for at least another 6-8 month, assuming the price will not fall below $10.


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## NinkobEi (Dec 2, 2013)

Octopuss said:


> That much?
> 
> Electricity cost is irrelevant to me. I currently have 5850 in my machine and my father in law's laptop with 6770m, but the former is getting upgraded to 280x. I might give this a shot...



Look at the poop, smell the poop, but never touch the poop. And why is electricity cost irrelevant?


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## Octopuss (Dec 3, 2013)

Because I don't pay for it.
I don't understand your first sentence.

Also, everything even remotely AMD-related is hopelessly sold out, and 280x's are skyrocketing even when out of stock.


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## Nordic (Dec 3, 2013)

Depends where you live. I have really cheap electricity. Last time I did the math it was like $3.11 for my 7970 alone if running 24/7.


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## NinkobEi (Dec 4, 2013)

Really good read



			
				Fleve" post="422722370 said:
			
		

> That placement on the standard bubble roadmap posted earlier might be accurate. Although bubbles usually grow far bigger than expected, there are quite some reasons why this might finally end soon.
> 
> - Media attention was at an all-time high. Regional newspapers were running Bitcoin stories, papers in China were running daily Bitcoin stories. Metro announcement systems in Germany were showing news about Bitcoin. A friend of mine heard people talk about Bitcoin in the streets. By now everyone has heard about Bitcoin.
> - Dollar volume and Bitcoin volume has subsided substantially across all exchanges.
> ...


----------



## Octopuss (Dec 4, 2013)

Does anyone happen to have cpuminer 2.3.2? Goddamn Sourceforge is blocking it on virus allegiations.


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## Nordic (Dec 4, 2013)

@NinkobEi


> On Sunday, Business Insider's Joe Weisenthal admitted he was rethinking his former view that Bitcoin was a "currency for clowns." But Matt Yglesias still isn't convinced that Bitcoin is anything special:
> 
> Bitcoins are more portable than either suitcases full of $100 bills or diamonds. So there's some use there. And even though I think inflation paranoia is dumb, it's certainly a real phenomenon. And anything gold can do Bitcoin can do better. In essence you've combined the smuggling utility of pieces of paper with pictures of Ben Franklin on them with the inflation hedging properties of gold. That's a decent achievement. But it's not going to set the world on fire.
> 
> ...


----------



## NinkobEi (Dec 4, 2013)

@James
"The reason so many nerds are excited about Bitcoin is that they see the potential for Bitcoin to do for financial services what the Internet did for information: provide a general-purpose platform anyone can use to conduct complex financial transactions."
It's almost as if the writer is oblivious to online banking, credit and debit cards, and the infamous steam wallet. Bitcoin could never handle the volume of transactions required to be considered a legitimate currency. Its design is too bloated to be practical - ever. It has no fail-safes and no consumer protection. And it is trying to replace something that is already established and works perfectly fine. A better designed crypto currency may make its way through the nethers one day, but bitcoin is nothing but a stepping stone to that.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 5, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> @James
> "The reason so many nerds are excited about Bitcoin is that they see the potential for Bitcoin to do for financial services what the Internet did for information: provide a general-purpose platform anyone can use to conduct complex financial transactions."
> It's almost as if the writer is oblivious to online banking, credit and debit cards, and the infamous steam wallet. Bitcoin could never handle the volume of transactions required to be considered a legitimate currency. Its design is too bloated to be practical - ever. It has no fail-safes and no consumer protection. And it is trying to replace something that is already established and works perfectly fine. A better designed crypto currency may make its way through the nethers one day, but bitcoin is nothing but a stepping stone to that.



While I agree that the current implementation of Bitcoin needs improvement, the brilliant thing is that the protocol is open to modification as long as the majority of clients agree to it.  It's disingenuous to say that Bitcoin is permanently flawed for that reason.  Things like the block size, the minimum transaction size, and the number of decimal places allowed can all change as the currency grows.

The problem with the current online financial system is that there is always a middle man in the transaction, whether it is a bank, a credit card, a debit card, or even the Steam wallet.  I can't send money to you directly.  If I want to send money to you, I have to use a middle man, and of course the middle man wants a moderate fee for transferring the money.  With Bitcoin I can transfer money directly to you and have a much smaller transaction fee (if one is charged at all).  In addition many of the poor cannot use electronic forms of conventional currency because the middle man (the bank) refuses them service based upon their financial situation.  Bitcoin makes no such discrimination.



Octopuss said:


> Does anyone happen to have cpuminer 2.3.2? Goddamn Sourceforge is blocking it on virus allegiations.



Why would you still be mining on a CPU at this point?  The reason it's a virus threat is because the only people who CPU mine are people who write viruses.  They make infected computers mine for them and don't have to pay for the electricity, so it doesn't matter how inefficient the miner is.


----------



## qubit (Dec 5, 2013)

The one thing I don't get about bitcoin from a technical perspective, is how the block chain works.

First of all it's supposed to contain details _every single_ BT transaction ever, with all the notes and things that go with it. This would lead it to becoming very large indeed in a very short time, so should be like that now. Then, it's supposed to be synchronized with all the other BT clients. As the system is decentralized, how is this supposed to work? How can you ever know that you have the latest version of the block chain?

To compound this problem, the block chain would have to be updated every few seconds, or even several times a second, as BT usage picks up. Eventually, it will have to be updated hundreds  and eventually thousands of times a second, which would make maintaining a single updated version totally impractical.

Can anyone clarify all this?


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 5, 2013)

qubit said:


> The one thing I don't get about bitcoin from a technical perspective, is how the block chain works.
> 
> First of all it's supposed to contain details _every single_ BT transaction ever, with all the notes and things that go with it. This would lead it to becoming very large indeed in a very short time, so should be like that now. Then, it's supposed to be synchronized with all the other BT clients. As the system is decentralized, how is this supposed to work? How can you ever know that you have the latest version of the block chain?
> 
> ...



The entire block chain was never intended to be directly used by clients.  BitcoinQT is a bad client in this regard; there are other clients that can access the block chain without downloading it all.  It was always intended for the whole block chain to be hosted by only a few servers (like blockchain.info) allowing clients access to transaction info without downloading the entire chain.  As far as controlling growth, there is significant debate on what to do, whether it be a purge or something else, so I don't have an answer to that.


----------



## Solaris17 (Dec 5, 2013)

qubit said:


> The one thing I don't get about bitcoin from a technical perspective, is how the block chain works.
> 
> First of all it's supposed to contain details _every single_ BT transaction ever, with all the notes and things that go with it. This would lead it to becoming very large indeed in a very short time, so should be like that now. Then, it's supposed to be synchronized with all the other BT clients. As the system is decentralized, how is this supposed to work? How can you ever know that you have the latest version of the block chain?
> 
> ...



Its a mix between diffirent cryptographic functions it downloads a set amount of data for one. almost like a work unit in F@H or boinc. then this block chain needs to be computed using a distributed key http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_key_generation much like F@H and WCG you can have errors and your "segment" of the block chain will not validate with the "pool" (server that has all the other half of the algorythm) then it will dump the work and force an update. because its hash value did not make the handshake the work isnt counted.


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## qubit (Dec 5, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> The entire block chain was never intended to be directly used by clients.  BitcoinQT is a bad client in this regard.  It was always intended for the block chain to be used by a few servers (like blockchain.info) allowing clients access to transaction info without downloading the entire chain.  As far as controlling growth, there is debate on what to do, whether it be a purge or something else, so I don't have an answer to that.


So the block chain isn't decentralized then. Ok, that would keep things manageable.

Of course, this gives BT a weak spot, a choke point for control and potential snooping by governments who don't like the idea of a currency operating out of their control for various reasons. Witness the takedown of the Silk Road exchange for example.

EDIT: Thanks Solaris, just saw your reply after posting mine. I'll check out that Wikipedia article.


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## The Von Matrices (Dec 5, 2013)

qubit said:


> So the block chain isn't decentralized then. Ok, that would keep things manageable.
> 
> Of course, this gives BT a weak spot, a choke point for control and potential snooping by governments who don't like the idea of a currency operating out of their control for various reasons. Witness the takedown of the Silk Road exchange for example.



It is decentralized in that no one "owns" the chain and can modify it alone; all the servers still have to be synchronized to the protocol, and you can still download the entire chain and start your own server if you really want it.  However, you aren't required to have your own personal copy of the entire chain to use the currency.  I really hope that the BitcoinQT client begins to die off for consumers because it's such a waste of bandwidth.


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## Octopuss (Dec 5, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> The reason it's a virus threat is because the only people who CPU mine are people who write viruses.  They make infected computers mine for them and don't have to pay for the electricity, so it doesn't matter how inefficient the miner is.


Not sure if serious or...


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 5, 2013)

Octopuss said:


> Not sure if serious or...



https://blog.avast.com/2013/08/01/malicious-bitcoin-miners-target-czech-republic/

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-04/8/bitcoin-trojan


----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 5, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> https://blog.avast.com/2013/08/01/malicious-bitcoin-miners-target-czech-republic/
> 
> http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-04/8/bitcoin-trojan



There are legit cpu miners out there. Obviously there will be abuse... this is Earth and we are humans after all...


----------



## Nordic (Dec 5, 2013)

There is no profit to cpu mine anymore though. Even the botnets are not that profitable, even with the free computational power.


----------



## Octopuss (Dec 5, 2013)

I am getting extra ~50kh/s with 6 threads running on my 3770K on top of what's running on the GPU. I'll take that. The PC would otherwise idle anyway.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 5, 2013)

The real money is not in mining. You guys are just trading electricity for a virtual currency. The real money is in TRADING the coins.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 5, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> The real money is not in mining. You guys are just trading electricity for a virtual currency. The real money is in TRADING the coins.



If you already have the hardware, it makes a lot of sense.  However if you are buying hardware just to mine, I agree with you completely.  You can make a lot more money investing.  

That's exactly the reason I think the people buying every 280Xs on the market are crazy.  They don't realize that they will only break even or be marginally profitable in the end.  Litecoin adjusts difficulty 4x more frequently than Bitcoin so you can't take advantage of that lag in difficulty change.  Wise investors don't blindly follow the horde when making investment decisions.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 6, 2013)

AphexDreamer said:


> It cost me 66.85 bitcoins to get $50 virtual visa.



OMG, I am going through this thread again. You paid the potential of $66,000 USD for a $50 visa. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are no words.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 6, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> OMG, I am going through this thread again. You paid the potential of $66,000 USD for a $50 visa. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are no words.



The transaction widely cited as the first Bitcoin sale was 10,000 BTC for two pizzas (25 USD) in May 2010.  It looks crazy now, but if you were holding coins then, it was a good deal for a currency that had no real exchange value.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 6, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> The transaction widely cited as the first Bitcoin sale was 10,000 BTC for two pizzas (25 USD) in May 2010.  It looks crazy now, but if you were holding coins then, it was a good deal for a currency that had no real exchange value.



Oh I completely agree. It just seems insane right now...


----------



## Nordic (Dec 6, 2013)

The term tenchocratic has been used to describe those few who got/getting rich off bitcoin.


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## ShiBDiB (Dec 6, 2013)

I think the main problem now is that it's peaked. The users who have the savvy to know it exists already do.


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## mauriek (Dec 6, 2013)

personally i hope BTC will drop to around the "normal" price of $200-300 and gradually increase as it become more widely use and have a stronger user base. this last few month price surge mainly only benefit for speculator and media. 

For people like me BTC provide comfortable way for online transaction. as Paypal and credit card are an expensive way to do online transaction.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 7, 2013)

mauriek said:


> personally i hope BTC will drop to around the "normal" price of $200-300 and gradually increase as it become more widely use and have a stronger user base. this last few month price surge mainly only benefit for speculator and media.
> 
> For people like me BTC provide comfortable way for online transaction. as Paypal and credit card are an expensive way to do online transaction.



I share the same opinion as you, but I don't think it will go as low as $200-$300.  If you correlate the price spike to past bubbles, then in mid December there will be a correction to around $700-$800.



ShiBDiB said:


> I think the main problem now is that it's peaked. The users who have the savvy to know it exists already do.



It's "peaked" in the sense that at the current price, the supply of coin sellers is meeting demand from coin buyers.  The price of coins is tied to how many people are using it.

Once PayPal or some other major company accepts Bitcoin then the the market will enlarge with more people wanting to use the currency, creating more demand for coins.  The price sellers charge per coin will increase to a new level in order to force down coin demand to meet coin sellers' supply again.  Of course, this doesn't prevent more people from using the currency.  If increased coin demand drives up the nominal price of coins, it also drives down the nominal price of goods.  So this just results in more people spending fewer coins per transaction.


----------



## ShiBDiB (Dec 7, 2013)

I don't see any major retailers accepting bitcoin, theirs no reason for them too and if anything it detracts from there business.


----------



## r9 (Dec 7, 2013)

I've had 0.6 BTC when BTC was 100$ and I have chosen to keep them in USD on mtgox. And I have forgotten about them. And couple days ago I have checked the value of the BTC and instead of me having  600$ now I have only 60$. And I used those 60 usd to buy BTC again and bought a keyboard and mouse from bitcoinstore.com and want to say that are very professional.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 7, 2013)

ShiBDiB said:


> if anything it detracts from there business.



What is your reasoning for this?


----------



## Nordic (Dec 7, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> What is your reasoning for this?


Anytime I mention bitcoin someone always says "...that Ponzi scheme?" I even had one of my coworkers say it was the devils currency because somehow mathematics and computers were work of the devil. I can not speak for him, but in my experience in popular opinion bitcoin is regarded negatively.


----------



## ShiBDiB (Dec 7, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> What is your reasoning for this?



For the reason james said. Bitcoins carry a stigma that no major company wants, and they stand to lose more business because of it than they would gain. Also companies like paypal make their money charging fee's on the movement of "tangible" currencies. If they started dealing in bitcoins they'd be investing in the growth of an already flimsy economic model, which makes no sense for a large company to do.

Not saying the bitcoin market is going to crash, just that it has plateaued and barring a complete crash of global currencies where bitcoin is the only thing left I don't see it going up much more.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 8, 2013)

ShiBDiB said:


> For the reason james said. Bitcoins carry a stigma that no major company wants, and they stand to lose more business because of it than they would gain. Also companies like paypal make their money charging fee's on the movement of "tangible" currencies. If they started dealing in bitcoins they'd be investing in the growth of an already flimsy economic model, which makes no sense for a large company to do.
> 
> Not saying the bitcoin market is going to crash, just that it has plateaued and barring a complete crash of global currencies where bitcoin is the only thing left I don't see it going up much more.



It's a reasonable argument.  Bitcoin still has a way to go before gaining full public awareness, particularly for its uses as a medium of exchange rather than speculation.  It's discrimination though; if common people actually noticed the vast sums of conventional currencies being gambled by investment banks in obscure financial instruments, they would realize that speculation is not unique to Bitcoin.

I still think that Paypal can accept Bitcoin without destroying its business model.  It already is a way to sell worldwide and yet only have the seller deal in only one currency; I don't see how Bitcoin would disrupt that business model.  They also provide the service of buyer and seller protection (i.e. insurance).  Bitcoin is based on irreversible transactions, so fraud is a major concern when dealing peer to peer.  Yes, any country's courts fulfill the same function, but being able to get a quicker response with less hassle has always been the benefit of PayPal.


----------



## Octopuss (Dec 15, 2013)

Anyone felt for the Dogecoin bullshit? I heard claims people were making $250 in less than a day on it. It's only been running for a week. Maybe there's some potential in it for a short period of time (I don't believe something based on a fucking meme can last).


----------



## NinkobEi (Dec 16, 2013)

Octopuss said:


> Anyone felt for the Dogecoin bullshit? I heard claims people were making $250 in less than a day on it. It's only been running for a week. Maybe there's some potential in it for a short period of time (I don't believe something based on a fucking meme can last).




"doge coins are like the perfect proof that there's nothing actually backing bitcoin. if a fucking internet meme can be sold for money..."


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 16, 2013)

Octopuss said:


> Anyone felt for the Dogecoin bullshit? I heard claims people were making $250 in less than a day on it. It's only been running for a week. Maybe there's some potential in it for a short period of time (I don't believe something based on a fucking meme can last).





NinkobEi said:


> "doge coins are like the perfect proof that there's nothing actually backing bitcoin. if a fucking internet meme can be sold for money..."



I stick to only the biggest cryptocurrencies since most of the smaller ones were created as pump and dump schemes.  It's not an issue new to cryptocurrency.  There will always be fools who fall for these schemes no matter what type of investment it is.  You just have to be aware of the ridiculous claims.  I suggest you read:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump


----------



## Octopuss (Dec 16, 2013)

Yeah I understand it's a stupid artificial hype, but... for short period of time there's apparently profit in it. Some other people said they mined the equivalent of 2+ ltc in few hours' time, and exchanged it asap. That IS profit.
But the main question is how long will this last.
I am fucked either way, because I chose the wrong pool to mine at - my balance is close to zero, and the damn server went offline at night due to migration. Awesome.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 16, 2013)

Octopuss said:


> Yeah I understand it's a stupid artificial hype, but... for short period of time there's apparently profit in it. Some other people said they mined the equivalent of 2+ ltc in few hours' time, and exchanged it asap. That IS profit.
> But the main question is how long will this last.
> I am fucked either way, because I chose the wrong pool to mine at - my balance is close to zero, and the damn server went offline at night due to migration. Awesome.



Use the pool I use - middlecoin.com.   There's much less risk and the profit is nearly identical.


----------



## Octopuss (Dec 16, 2013)

That's weird. Too automatic.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 16, 2013)

Octopuss said:


> That's weird. Too automatic.



It's a trade off.  You can make more profit by individually researching coins, finding pools, creating wallets, configuring miners, and then selling the coins, but that's a lot of work.

I'm willing to give in to the ambiguity of the middlecoin pool since it's a lot less effort than re-evaluating profitability of coins every day.  The pool owner hides what coin his pool is actually mining is because he doesn't want to alert the public to sell their coins and lower their price before he sells the pool's coins.

I think the middlecoin pool is doing a good service by killing the "new" coins through indiscriminately selling them for Bitcoin.  It depresses all the other coins' prices in relation to Bitcoin, making them more likely to fail.  Cryptocurrency will only succeed if there is a unified movement toward one coin; a mess of start ups in the market like there is now is going to kill them all including Bitcoin.


----------



## NinkobEi (Dec 16, 2013)




----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 16, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> I think the middlecoin pool is doing a good service by killing the "new" coins through indiscriminately selling them for Bitcoin. It depresses all the other coins' prices in relation to Bitcoin, making them more likely to fail. Cryptocurrency will only succeed if there is a unified movement toward one coin; a mess of start ups in the market like there is now is going to kill them all including Bitcoin.



Competing currencies is good. Just like competing desktop manufacturers, competing website providers, and competing political parties.


----------



## Nordic (Dec 16, 2013)

Easy Rhino said:


> Competing currencies is good. Just like competing desktop manufacturers, competing website providers, and competing political parties.


I await the doge democrats of so democratic party to show itself.


----------



## NinkobEi (Dec 16, 2013)

james888 said:


> I await the doge democrats of so democratic party to show itself.



more likely you'll get libertarians and uber conservatives that think the only way to bring down the government is by creating an alternate to the dollar.


----------



## mafia97 (Dec 16, 2013)

Hi guys ,
can anyone help me get basic information about bitcoins and where to start?
read 5-10 pages , this seems interesting


----------



## Castiel (Dec 16, 2013)

mafia97 said:


> Hi guys ,
> can anyone help me get basic information about bitcoins and where to start?
> read 5-10 pages , this seems interesting



Here is the history of Bitcoin.

These videos can help you learn more and get a bigger view of Bitcoin Mining.

And it really depends on where you want to start with Bitcoin. For instance hobby or are you wanting to make a profit? Because each option will cost you different amounts. You can start today with your current hardware. And there are different software releases that allows you to do it. Though there are ASIC based chips that specifically created to handle a single task, and for Bitcoin mining they are perfect. 

For example I personally do it for a hobby. And for the setup I will be getting soon is about $180 in total depending on the costs of a ASICMiner Block Erupter. They are USB based miners that are fairly cheap, but only have a hash rate of 330Mh/s. Which doesn't really get you that much. And to power these I will use a Raspberry Pi to control the mining. With some additional accessories.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 16, 2013)

r9 said:


> I've had 0.6 BTC when BTC was 100$ and I have chosen to keep them in USD on mtgox. And I have forgotten about them. And couple days ago I have checked the value of the BTC and instead of me having  600$ now I have only 60$. And I used those 60 usd to buy BTC again and bought a keyboard and mouse from bitcoinstore.com and want to say that are very professional.



Has anyone had any issues with bitcoinstore.com? I have thought about spending a majority of my bitcoin there instead of converting everything to USD and have a Money Order sent to me.


----------



## Bow (Dec 16, 2013)

I have also been thinking about getting into Bitcoin. AS a hobby.   I Crunch for TPU so my pc is running 24/7 anyway.  I am just not sure where to start?  I will have to do some reading up on it.  Thinking about adding a second GPU for mining.​


----------



## Castiel (Dec 16, 2013)

Bow said:


> I have also been thinking about getting into Bitcoin. AS a hobby.   I Crunch for TPU so my pc is running 24/7 anyway.  I am just not sure where to start?  I will have to do some reading up on it.  Thinking about adding a second GPU for mining.​



You can start today if you want, because with AMD cards they mine better than nVidia. Though with video cards in a pc it can run up your electricity bill. I suggest save and put your money towards a ASIC type mining solution.


----------



## mafia97 (Dec 16, 2013)

I am a Student , looking for ways to support my family so that my education and my hobbies are easier on them.
What do you recommend I should do ?


----------



## xvi (Dec 16, 2013)

From what I understand, Bitcoins and GPUs are generally unprofitable (unless you or someone you don't want to hate you is paying for electricity). Invest in an ASIC (do your research to figure out which one you want to use) or use your GPUs to mine a Scrypt-based currency instead.


----------



## Bow (Dec 16, 2013)

Castiel said:


> You can start today if you want, because with AMD cards they mine better than nVidia. Though with video cards in a pc it can run up your electricity bill. I suggest save and put your money towards a ASIC type mining solution.



My pc Crunches 24/7 now, so power bill is not really a problem.  What di I need to do/know to get started?  I can use all the help I can get.  I hear joining a pool is better.


----------



## NinkobEi (Dec 17, 2013)

Castiel said:


> For example I personally do it for a hobby. And for the setup I will be getting soon is about $180 in total depending on the costs of a ASICMiner Block Erupter.



How is leaving a program open for a long time considered a hobby? And why would you spend $180 on a usb miner that mines .00001 bitcoins per day. It'll take years to be profitable, if ever.


----------



## NinkobEi (Dec 17, 2013)

mafia97 said:


> I am a Student , looking for ways to support my family so that my education and my hobbies are easier on them.
> What do you recommend I should do ?


Get a job or help around the house.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 17, 2013)

@NinkobEi Please leave the negativity out or don't participate in the thread. I am just trying to give information to the people that are wanting to know more. And I consider it a hobby because I am not looking to make a profit. And forgive me for not completely explaining myself on my plan to invest more than $180 into my bitcoin mining to make it more clear.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 17, 2013)

Bow said:


> My pc Crunches 24/7 now, so power bill is not really a problem.  What di I need to do/know to get started?  I can use all the help I can get.  I hear joining a pool is better.



I suggest to purchase an AMD card, like a 5770 on the cheap side. Upgrade a couple generations more to increase your hash rate. And yes, join a pool because trying to solve a block on your own will take you forever.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 17, 2013)

Bow said:


> My pc Crunches 24/7 now, so power bill is not really a problem.  What di I need to do/know to get started?  I can use all the help I can get.  I hear joining a pool is better.





Castiel said:


> I suggest to purchase an AMD card, like a 5770 on the cheap side. Upgrade a couple generations more to increase your hash rate. And yes, join a pool because trying to solve a block on your own will take you forever.



I think you should separate "getting into" Bitcoin with mining it.  You don't need to have anything to do with mining to own Bitcoin.  Mined coins are no more valuable or different than coins you purchase using other currencies.  Therefore you should only look at the economic aspect when considering mining.  The problem is that even the most powerful GPUs like a 7970/280X will only mine about 0.0004 BTC/day, or $0.36.  I have extremely cheap electricity at $0.077/kWh and that would still cost me $0.72/day in electricity to make $0.36.  If you want Bitcoin, direct mining is about the worst way to obtain it.

You can do what I do, which is to mine scrypt currencies on GPUs and exchange them for Bitcoin.  You'll get about 50x more revenue doing that, which makes it worthwhile.  However, as I said, you need to consider this as a business transaction.  There is no good to be gained in losing money while mining.  It's not like losing money while using your GPUs to fold proteins and help the scientific community.


----------



## Castiel (Dec 17, 2013)

@The Von Matrices Could you give a link to a tutorial or a doc that will show you how to setup mine scrypting?


----------



## xenocide (Dec 17, 2013)

I've never heard of these Scrypt Currencies, any introductory articles I could check out?


----------



## Nordic (Dec 17, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> How is leaving a program open for a long time considered a hobby?.


There is a whole dedicated TPU crunching team that makes a hobby of just that, although you purposefully said it overly simplistic. Your a troll. Move on.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 17, 2013)

xenocide said:


> I've never heard of these Scrypt Currencies, any introductory articles I could check out?



*An overview of scrypt:*

Basically, there are two major hashing algorithms used for cryptocurrency - SHA-256 (used by Bitcoin) and scrypt (used by Litecoin).    scrypt is intended to use large amounts of memory making it impractical to implement on an ASIC or even a GPU in order to prevent any one entity from gathering a bunch of ASIC miners and taking over the network.  However, Litecoin failed to implement scrypt properly by not using enough memory, so there is potential to use GPUs and ASICs to speed up hashing, just without as much of a gain as they gave to SHA-256.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrypt

Bitcoin is by far the largest cryptocurrency, with about an order of magnitude larger market cap than any others, but there are many other smaller ones with new startups being created (and failing) every day.  All the startups I've seen use either SHA-256 or scrypt.  Wikipedia lists the largest cryptocurrencies and their differences from Bitcoin in this informative table:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies

Since all these coins are independently traded, there is money to be made by performing arbitrage between them, which is what the mining pool I use does.  This is a good site to compare the current profitability of the coins tradeable on exchanges:

http://www.dustcoin.com/


----------



## The Von Matrices (Dec 17, 2013)

Castiel said:


> @The Von Matrices Could you give a link to a tutorial or a doc that will show you how to setup mine scrypting?



I've had a few people ask me about this, and I've answered this in private messages, but it makes sense to post it here so that I can help more people at the same time.  I probably will update this post a few times to clear up any missing or outdated information (last updated 16 December 2013 10:42PM EST).  *Feel free to as me any questions about items I may have missed in this post and if it is widely applicable I will add it to this post.*

*Getting started with scrypt:*

There are two options in mining - to mine the coins you want directly, and to mine alternative coins and allow the pool to exchange them for the coins you want.  I choose the latter option since I believe in Bitcoin over the other currencies, but it's a decision completely up to you.  Of course, you first need to decide what coin you want to hold, and then create a wallet in that coin.

Whatever you choose, I highly recommend using a mining pool, since that will guarantee steady payouts (at the cost of a few percent of payouts) instead of trying your luck at finding a block by doing solo mining.  Remember, if you solo mine, you only make money if you find a block; otherwise, you make nothing.  With a pool, you earn a share of any blocks found by anyone in the pool proportional to the amount of hashing power you put into the pool.

As far as what pool to use, I don't have any definitive recommendations.  I just want to convert to Bitcoin, so the pool I use is middlecoin.com.  It mines all sorts of scrypt coins and changes coin depending on what is most profitable at the moment. You get paid in Bitcoin every 24 hours.  If you want to be paid in the native currency like Litecoin or Novacoin, for example, you need to find a pool that mines and pays out in that currency.

When looking for a pool, you of course should consider the fees involved, but it's also worth considering the amount of time the pool is down.  Many of the cheaper pools have lower connection reliability, and you may lose more money by not mining when the connection is down than you would be charged in fees.  It's hard to evaluate this reliability just by looking at websites, but generally the largest pools got their position because they are the most reliable.

*Setting up scrypt mining:*

I'm using CGMiner and Windows.  There of course are other programs and you can use Linux, but I do not have experience with them.  You need CGMiner version 0.7.2 and not the latest version (the later versions have deprecated scrypt mining). You can get it from http://ck.kolivas.org/apps/cgminer/3.7/cgminer-3.7.2-windows.zip.

_The one thing that you must know_ is that by default Windows limits any program to 512MB of VRAM, and that restriction absolutely kills scrypt mining performance. To remove that limit and allow the program to use up to 100% of available VRAM, you need to create a short batch file that lifts the limit then runs the miner. You just need to create a text document with three lines:


```
setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
C:\Mining\cgminer-3.7.2-windows\cgminer.exe (or whatever your cgminer directory is)
```

Then save the text document as a .bat file and open that to run cgminer instead of just clicking on cgminer.exe.

The default parameters of the program are OK to start off with, but you will want to tune them as described later.  When you open the program for the first time, it will ask you for the pool link, the miner username, and the miner password.  Note that these are not the same as your website, username, and password to the pool you chose.  These mining credentials are provided at the pool's website.  They don't need to be secure when you create them (since who cares if someone else mines for your account?).

One the program is started, you should save a configuration file so you don't need to re enter these settings every time you start cgminer.  Type "s" to get to settings, then "w" to write config file.  Just press "enter" to save the default filename.  This will create a "cgminer.conf" file in your cgminer directory.  This file can be opened in any text editor

*Tweaking your settings to get the best hash rate:*

I highly suggest reading the SCRYPT-README.txt file in the cgminer directory and that will tell you almost everything you need to know about adjusting settings of the program.

Scrypt mining requires a lot more tweaking than SHA-256 (Bitcoin algorithm) mining.  You will need to modify the cgminer.conf file you created earlier.  The three important points from the SCRYPT-README file:



> --intensity XX (-I XX)
> 
> Just like in bitcoin mining, scrypt mining takes an intensity, however the
> scale goes from 0 to 20 to mimic the "Aggression" used in mtrlt's reaper. The
> ...



I find that difficulty of 13 is the highest hash rate on most cards.  However, you might need to lower this intensity or your air cooled card can overheat.  If you experience overheating, it's generally better to lower clock speeds on your card (even below stock speeds) before lowering intensity.



> --thread-concurrency:
> This tunes the optimal size of work that scrypt can do. It is internally tuned
> by cgminer to be the highest reasonable multiple of shaders that it can
> allocate on your GPU. Ideally it should be a multiple of your shader count.
> ...



This is important.  You should make thread concurrency a multiple of the number of shaders on your card.  The advice here is generally good - at about 4x the number of shaders on VLIW4/GCN GPUs, the gains from increasing thread concurrency will level off.  you can go higher to get a slightly faster hash rate, but remember that increasing this multiple uses more and more VRAM.  When tweaking this you should use a program like GPU-Z and monitor VRAM use so that it is not larger than the amount of VRAM on the card; otherwise, you will lose a ton of performance due to using system memory.

*Overclocking your GPU:*

Again, the SCRYPT-README file provides some good guidance:



> Overclocking for scrypt mining:
> First of all, do not underclock your memory initially. Scrypt mining requires
> memory speed and on most, but not all, GPUs, lowering memory speed lowers
> mining performance.
> ...



Almost everything in the system affects hash rate, so you should not expect to get the exact same hash rate as anyone else using the same card.  The rule of thumb is to overclock GPU memory as much as you possibly can, then raise the core speed gradually until the performance begins to drop.  You don't really need to push the core to get high hash rates.  For my 7970s, 1850MHz memory works best with only a 1050MHz core.   As I said earlier, you optimal clock speeds will certainly differ from mine.  Also, keep an eye on the number of hardware errors in cgminer, which are listed under "HW:".  If everything is working properly, you should get zero hardware errors. 

*Other things to consider:*

If you want your computer to mine continuously, it might be worth using a program like cgwatcher.  This program monitors cgminer and your computer's performance and makes changes to ensure that the computer is operational including restarting cgminer or the computer.

http://manotechnology.blogspot.com/p/cgwatcher.html[/QUOTE]


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## mafia97 (Dec 17, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> Get a job or help around the house.


Can't get a job because my college take 12 hours of my day. and I do help around the house .


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## mauriek (Dec 17, 2013)

when i considered my mining/folding/crunching activity as hobby, actually it's a fun hobby, and rewarding too, researching, spending hours to tune the PC setting, calculating which profitable coin, and trading it.
and with current price the hobby can pay their own cost and save a little for any hard day.


----------



## NinkobEi (Dec 17, 2013)

Good news everyone! Now you can make your own Altcoin and pump-and-dump it just like bitcoin!
http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=scry...lone_scrypt_based_altcoins_for_fun_and_profit



james888 said:


> There is a whole dedicated TPU crunching team that makes a hobby of just that, although you purposefully said it overly simplistic. Your a troll. Move on.



While TPU Crunching you are working with a community of people you know for the betterment of the world. Bitcoin is a desperate cashgrab feeding the Winklevoss' pyramid scheme.


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## xvi (Dec 17, 2013)

I'm doing some light mining to offset my BOINC/WCG costs for hardware and electricity. The way I see it, if other people want to effectively pay me to validate transactions, I'll oblige them. At the end of the day, I get better hardware that can be used for WCG (and a nice gaming session now and then).

I'm not a fan of ASICs just because once they're unprofitable, they're only good for scrap. A video card after it's unprofitable is still a video card.


----------



## NinkobEi (Dec 19, 2013)

Found this kind of funny.





Meanwhile dogecoin value has increased by +241.09% in the last 24 hours.

Also, this is pretty big news about the coin. Hope you guys cashed out already!
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/2013/12/19/09/41/bitcoin-suicide-warning-issued-on-reddit



> *Bitcoin slump prompts online suicide warning*
> _A dramatic plunge in the value of Bitcoin has led an internet forum devoted to the virtual currency to issue a suicide warning to its investors._
> 
> Bitcoin's value fell by half after BTC China, China's biggest Bitcoin trading platform, announced on Wednesday that it had banned deposits in yuan following new restrictions reportedly imposed by the central bank.
> ...


----------



## r9 (Dec 20, 2013)

Castiel said:


> Has anyone had any issues with bitcoinstore.com? I have thought about spending a majority of my bitcoin there instead of converting everything to USD and have a Money Order sent to me.


When I tried to make payment there was a timer that finished and they still have not received the payment even though I paid, so the many were spend and the order was not completed. Than I just wrote mail about my problem and after 24 hours it was all corrected and I received the items 3-4 days after. That is way I wanted to tell my experience knowing that this all bitcoin thing how you chose to look at it it  is shady business.


----------



## Vario (Dec 21, 2013)

read about the guy that threw away a $7m harddrive... lol


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## Tomaxitoo (Mar 11, 2014)

Hi all, I have a question I'm all coins miner and mino 4 r9 xfx 280x,
I'm going to flash, to get more performance in the pool, which bios you recommend me to use?
He also had other doubts, what if I put a xfx bios of asus direct CU 280x?
and if I put a 290x bios cualquierda happens?

Thank you so much!
I hope you can help me ..


----------



## Nordic (Mar 11, 2014)

Tomaxitoo said:


> Hi all, I have a question I'm all coins miner and mino 4 r9 xfx 280x,
> I'm going to flash, to get more performance in the pool, which bios you recommend me to use?
> He also had other doubts, what if I put a xfx bios of asus direct CU 280x?
> and if I put a 290x bios cualquierda happens?
> ...


I don't think bios are going to help you that much.


----------



## Tomaxitoo (Mar 11, 2014)

xfx happens if you change the bios and put a asus bios?


----------



## The Von Matrices (Mar 11, 2014)

Switching manufacturers will either brick your card if it's a non-reference design or make no change if it is a reference design (since all manufactures use the same VBIOS on reference designs).  The only BIOS flash that could help would be one of the ones that "The Stilt" created.  They have optimized memory timings that could make a difference.  Open GPU-Z, find your card's BIOS version and memory manufacturer, then search this page to see if there's a modified version of that same BIOS and memory manufacturer.

I came across that repository yesterday.  I thought all the BIOS files were lost since the original links on the original forum post were dead.  I'm going to try one on my Elpida powered Powercolor 7970 that will not get over 550kH/s no matter what I do to it, and I'll report my results.


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 11, 2014)

Tomaxitoo said:


> xfx happens if you change the bios and put a asus bios?



What can I say, it's a risk simply because your Asus DirectCU cards are of non reference design and therefore if there are any hardware differences between yours and the XfX Bios you are trying to flash you could brick your cards, it can work though, if you are determined to go for it, make sure you backup your current Bios, you will probably need to use the "force" -f command.

If you do brick the cards please don't come back into this thread to cry, start a new thread in the graphic cards sub forum!


----------



## erocker (Mar 11, 2014)

Do not flash the bios, it will not help. If you flash 290x bios to your card it will make the card useless.


----------



## Nordic (Mar 11, 2014)

Tomaxitoo said:


> xfx happens if you change the bios and put a asus bios?


There is the danger of bricking the gpu making in unusable. Maybe if it doesn't brick, it has some voltage difference that eventually kills the gpu. If it works with no problems you wont get any real performance increases. If you even did it would be 1-2% at best. If you want a different bios for a different fan curve, or overclocking, I would recommend the saphire trixx software.


----------



## NinkobEi (Mar 11, 2014)

Tomaxitoo said:


> Hi all, I have a question I'm all coins miner and mino 4 r9 xfx 280x,
> I'm going to flash, to get more performance in the pool, which bios you recommend me to use?
> He also had other doubts, what if I put a xfx bios of asus direct CU 280x?
> and if I put a 290x bios cualquierda happens?
> ...



Sounds like someone is trying to get you to burn out your cards. Graphic card mining isn't profitable any longer, as far as I know.


----------



## Darkrealms (Mar 11, 2014)

james888 said:


> There is the danger of bricking the gpu making in unusable. Maybe if it doesn't brick, it has some voltage difference that eventually kills the gpu. If it works with no problems you wont get any real performance increases. If you even did it would be 1-2% at best. If you want a different bios for a different *fan curve, or overclocking, I would recommend the saphire trixx software*.


I have been using MSI Afterburner and have been happy with it.  I primarily use it for fan curves now but used to oc with it.


----------



## xvi (Mar 11, 2014)

erocker said:


> Do not flash the bios, it will not help. If you flash 290x bios to your card it will make the card useless.


Can not +1 this enough. The 280x and 290x cards are very, very different from one another. Flashing to a 290x *will *kill it.


----------



## THE_EGG (Mar 12, 2014)

Hey guys, I just put up this thread and wondered if you guys could help out. Rcoon sent me here 

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...80x-litecoin-some-gaming.198776/#post-3078627


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## THE_EGG (Mar 16, 2014)

OK guys I am going mad here. I just bought an Asus R9  280x DC2 TOP and a Gigabyte HD7850OC 1GB and I am getting really low hashrates. I've tried just about everything I can think of and have spent many hours over the past couple of days trying to get a decent hashrate D': . I am mining for litecoins on coinotron as I found they seem pretty easy to use and they seem to have a good rep. Weirdly enough I have managed to get a HD5770 working fine through cgminer with 180kH/s.

Here is what I have in my bat file for the 280x using cgminer 3.7.2 (gpu clocks 1080mhz on core & 1600 on ram 1.143v - changed these through afterburner max temps of 68-70C)
setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
cgminer.exe --scrypt -o stratum+tcp://www.coinotron.com:3334 -u THE_EGG.studentmoney280x -p  -I 19 -g 1 -w 448 --thread-concurrency 24000 --lookup-gap 2

This gives my a hashrate of around 440kH/s which is the highest I can achieve for some weird reason. Which is why I need help D':
I've tried some of the common setups on wiki but I get an even lower hashrate of 300-330kH/s

Also i haven't been able to get cgminer to work on my 7850 so i used GUIminer scrypt alpha v0.05 with these settings (gpu clocks 900mhz, ram 1200 and 1.21v max temps of 63C)

host: www.coinotron.com
port: 3334
username THE_EGG.studentmoney280x
password
Intensity 18
thread-concurrency 8193
vectors 1
threads 1
worksize 256
use stratum? yes
I made sure to put the 2 setx commands into cmd before getting started too
I get about 325kH/s which is acceptable but still low.

Both driver versions are catalyst 13.11 beta 9.4

side note: my 780 OC does well with 570kH/s-600kH/s with cudaminer (+90 on core and +155 on mem - with only 3 or 4 rejected every 1000)

I will mine for whoever helps me get this fixed for a day if they like


----------



## Nordic (Mar 16, 2014)

THE_EGG said:


> OK guys I am going mad here. I just bought an Asus R9  280x DC2 TOP and a Gigabyte HD7850OC 1GB and I am getting really low hashrates. I've tried just about everything I can think of and have spent many hours over the past couple of days trying to get a decent hashrate D': . I am mining for litecoins on coinotron as I found they seem pretty easy to use and they seem to have a good rep. Weirdly enough I have managed to get a HD5770 working fine through cgminer with 180kH/s.
> 
> Here is what I have in my bat file for the 280x using cgminer 3.7.2 (gpu clocks 1080mhz on core & 1600 on ram 1.143v - changed these through afterburner max temps of 68-70C)
> setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT
> ...


I don't know if that is your password to coinatron but you may want to hide that.

Things I notice, in comparison to my 7970, I keep my intensity at 13 and no higher. I get less hash rate at higher than 13, but that varies per person. 19 does look quite high. Another thing I notice is your work size. I believe 256 is the best for all Tahiti gpu's. Work size is usually put in as 64, 128, 256, or 512 values, in comparison to your 448.

Your 7850 isn't unusually low. Again, intensity looks high from my experience, but this varies by user.

Another thing I can mention too is finding balance in your clocks. With scrypt mining you don't just clock to the moon. My 7970 likes 1050/1800 clocks. If I clock it 1055/1800 I lose 100 k/hashs.


----------



## Bo$$ (Mar 16, 2014)

Tomaxitoo said:


> xfx happens if you change the bios and put a asus bios?


nothing. you'll have a card that says ASUS in GPU-z


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## THE_EGG (Mar 17, 2014)

> Things I notice, in comparison to my 7970, I keep my intensity at 13 and no higher. I get less hash rate at higher than 13, but that varies per person. 19 does look quite high. Another thing I notice is your work size. I believe 256 is the best for all Tahiti gpu's. Work size is usually put in as 64, 128, 256, or 512 values, in comparison to your 448.
> 
> Your 7850 isn't unusually low. Again, intensity looks high from my experience, but this varies by user.
> 
> Another thing I can mention too is finding balance in your clocks. With scrypt mining you don't just clock to the moon. My 7970 likes 1050/1800 clocks. If I clock it 1055/1800 I lose 100 k/hashs.



Thanks I'll try changing it. I have done intensity of 13 with 2 threads before and I only get 300kH/s. :'( which is even less than my 7850. This time I'll try changing the clocks too. Also I did have a worksize of 256 before but with 448 I got an extra 15kH/s out of it.

And no that wasn't my password for coinotron, only the workers. The worst that could happen would that other people would start mining for me


----------



## Scheich (Mar 17, 2014)

1600 ram is crazy, try 1500 or less. thats where tons of errors are coming from.


----------



## THE_EGG (Mar 17, 2014)

Scheich said:


> 1600 ram is crazy, try 1500 or less. thats where tons of errors are coming from.


well I don't have any errors tbh. I'm just about to try it again.

EDIT: GOOD NEWS a slight increase in hashrate has occurred. With this as my bat file I'm now up to 375kH/s. Clocks are 1050/1500 @ 1.143V. I'll keep playing around seeing that something began to change the hashrate  Still not close to the 700+ hashrate of most other 280xs though.
setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
cgminer.exe --scrypt -o stratum+tcp://www.coinotron.com:3334 -u THE_EGG.studentmoney280x -p ------ -I 12 -g 2 -w 256 --thread-concurrency 8192 --lookup-gap 2


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## Nordic (Mar 17, 2014)

THE_EGG said:


> Thanks I'll try changing it. I have done intensity of 13 with 2 threads before and I only get 300kH/s. :'( which is even less than my 7850. This time I'll try changing the clocks too. Also I did have a worksize of 256 before but with 448 I got an extra 15kH/s out of it.
> 
> And no that wasn't my password for coinotron, only the workers. The worst that could happen would that other people would start mining for me


The typical way to start finding the right clocks is by finding your maximum memory clock that you want and is stable. For me it was 1800. Then you put the core clock to half that. So I started a 900/1800. Then I bumped it up slowly until I got a drop in hashes. That drop was at 1054mhz to be exact for my gpu. This does vary per gpu though.

Intensity 19 might be what your system needs. I have found that to be much too high, and looking at most users it is high too. I find that odd that 448 worksize got you 15 k/hashes more. They are supposed to be in multiples of 64. In my testing, putting something besides 64/128/256/512 resulted in errors which makes it more odd to me.


----------



## Peter1986C (Mar 17, 2014)

Don't GPUs actually get much less efficient if you try too hard to reach maximum hashrate? Important to keep in mind if you want too optimize your profitability.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Mar 17, 2014)

GPU-Z is your friend when trying to tune a card.

What memory type does GPU-Z report on your 280X?  Most of the benchmarks online are for Hynix AFR equipped cards.  I have two Hynix AFR 7970's and one Elpida 7970.  While at 1050core/1500mem the Hynix AFR cards get 730kH/s at intensity 13, the Elpida maxes out at 550kH/s with intensity 14.  Your low hash rate could be due to the memory manufacturer, and if that's the case there's little you can do to change it.

GPU-Z is also helpful when trying to tune thread concurrency.  Thread concurrency should be an integer multiple of the number of shaders on your card.  My performance levels off with 8192 (4 x  2048) but you can try higher multiples with potentially better results.  Higher thread concurrency means more VRAM usage, so use GPU-Z to make sure that memory usage does not exceed the VRAM capacity of the card or else performance drops dramatically as main memory is used as a buffer.  You will want to leave a little spare memory if your mining card also drives displays as VRAM is needed for the framebuffer and for desktop effects like Windows Aero.

The "vectors" setting is a parameter for SHA-256 mining; it means nothing in scrypt.  Also, different cores require different intensity settings.  The Tahti cards work best at around 13, but Pitcairn cards need much higher intensities.  Your 19 intensity on a 7850 is nothing out of the ordinary.


----------



## THE_EGG (Mar 17, 2014)

The Von Matrices said:


> GPU-Z is your friend when trying to tune a card.
> 
> What memory type does GPU-Z report on your 280X?  Most of the benchmarks online are for Hynix AFR equipped cards.  I have two Hynix AFR 7970's and one Elpida 7970.  While at 1050core/1500mem the Hynix AFR cards get 730kH/s at intensity 13, the Elpida maxes out at 550kH/s with intensity 14.  Your low hash rate could be due to the memory manufacturer, and if that's the case there's little you can do to change it.
> 
> ...



My memory manufacturer is Hynix so that should help me out a bit.

On a side note I got my 5770 and 7770 working in another same pc. Both are getting around 180kH/s each but the 7770 is getting the work done at a faster rate.

Also I've accepted the performance of my 7850 so it really just comes down to my pesky 280x.

So far the best thread concurrency for me on the 280x is 8192. My hashrate is now between 430-440kH/s with these clocks, 1195mhz/1620mhz and 1.256v. I tried out a few games on this too and it seemed to play fine. This combination of core and mem clock seems to be the butter zone for me at least - anything other than this gives me less than 400kH/s. bat file is the same as in my previous post. I really don't know what is going on D': I just can't get it to mine at the level just about all other 280xs are at.


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## natr0n (Mar 17, 2014)

I really want to get into this bitcoin thing, but I'm not sure where to start. 

Some guy I was chatting with in battlefield 4 said he bought 2 r290 cards with bitcoins.

I was like wtf I want in on this.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 17, 2014)

natr0n said:


> I really want to get into this bitcoin thing, but I'm not sure where to start.
> 
> Some guy I was chatting with in battlefield 4 said he bought 2 r290 cards with bitcoins.
> 
> I was like wtf I want in on this.



To be dead honest, profitability isn't a sure thing right now.  Not that it ever is, but right now isn't a time I'd recommend jumping in in all honesty...  Unless you already have a 7970 or R9 280/290 lying around.


----------



## NinkobEi (Mar 17, 2014)

natr0n said:


> I really want to get into this bitcoin thing, but I'm not sure where to start.
> 
> Some guy I was chatting with in battlefield 4 said he bought 2 r290 cards with bitcoins.
> 
> I was like wtf I want in on this.



Q: Why did the hipster Bitcoin miner burn out his GPU. 
A: He was mining before it was cool.


From Mad Magazine. Enter at your own risk...


----------



## xvi (Mar 17, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> To be dead honest, profitability isn't a sure thing right now.  Not that it ever is, but right now isn't a time I'd recommend jumping in in all honesty...  Unless you already have a 7970 or R9 280/290 lying around.


+1
Ask someone who's rich how to become rich yourself and one of the more common answers you'll get is "Buy real estate back in the early 90s". I think it's the same with Bitcoin. Back when bitcoin wasn't as popular, difficulty and graphics card prices were low and you could see a return on investment on a card. These days, it'd be a couple months before it would pay itself off, and that's assuming you have a system just laying around that can power the card(s). It could still be profitable, but I think the big money was in getting some coin before it took off. (..and selling before it could crash)


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 17, 2014)

Don't get me wrong, if you must mine, GPU mining with a multipool that converts to bitcoin is still really the most profitable means.  I just hope you are ok with a 2 year or more ROI.


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## The Von Matrices (Mar 17, 2014)

THE_EGG said:


> My memory manufacturer is Hynix so that should help me out a bit.
> 
> On a side note I got my 5770 and 7770 working in another same pc. Both are getting around 180kH/s each but the 7770 is getting the work done at a faster rate.
> 
> ...



I realize now that GPU-z doesn't provide the exact information needed since it only displays memory manufacturer.  There are two types of Hynix chips potentially used on these cards - MFR and AFR.  The AFR chips are the ones that shipped on the reference cards.  AMD spent the time tuning the BIOSes for them and thus they have the best performance.  The MFR chips are a later alternative.  The problem comes down to that the board manufacturers did the bare minimum to accept the different memory resulting in lost performance in latency sensitive tasks like OpenCL.

Can you run memoryinfo and tell me what model of chips are on your 280X?

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/2326/asus-radeon-memoryinfo-1-005/


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## THE_EGG (Mar 17, 2014)

The Von Matrices said:


> I realize now that GPU-z doesn't provide the exact information needed since it only displays memory manufacturer.  There are two types of Hynix chips potentially used on these cards - MFR and AFR.  The AFR chips are the ones that shipped on the reference cards.  AMD spent the time tuning the BIOSes for them and thus they have the best performance.  The MFR chips are a later alternative.  The problem comes down to that the board manufacturers did the bare minimum to accept the different memory resulting in lost performance in latency sensitive tasks like OpenCL.
> 
> Can you run memoryinfo and tell me what model of chips are on your 280X?
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/2326/asus-radeon-memoryinfo-1-005/


 OK according to memory info I think I have AFR. This is what it comes up with H5GQ2H24AFR.


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## The Von Matrices (Mar 18, 2014)

THE_EGG said:


> OK according to memory info I think I have AFR. This is what it comes up with H5GQ2H24AFR.



Then that likely means that it all comes down to your configuration file and not your card.  I know you've made changes since your last posts; what is are the settings you using at the moment and what is your hashrate?


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## THE_EGG (Mar 18, 2014)

The Von Matrices said:


> Then that likely means that it all comes down to your configuration file and not your card.  I know you've made changes since your last posts; what is are the settings you using at the moment and what is your hashrate?


 
Yup took your advice and went digging through the internet and found a bat file that looked a bit like this but I changed a couple of figures to get optimum hashrate. This is what I ended up with.
setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
cgminer.exe --scrypt -o stratum+tcp://www.coinotron.com:3334 -u THE_EGG.studentmoney280x -p password -I 13 -g 2 -w 256 --thread-concurrency 8192 --gpu-powertune 5 --gpu-engine 1080 --gpu-memclock 1500 --auto-gpu --no-submit-stale --scan-time 30 --shaders 2048

Getting a hashrate of about ~740kH/s now DDDDDDDDD so damn happy
So it turned out I just needed to add a few more flags


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 19, 2014)

Some quick thoughts from an experienced trader:

wafflepool.com.  This pool is well reviewed and converts your scrypt hashrate straight to bitcoins.  There is also middlecoin but I find them a bit sketchier.  Wafflepool has always been outright honest as heck IMO.

Once I mine, I put about 50% of my deposits here:

https://btc-arbs.com/referral/rtb2011

(yes, that's a refferal link, come on if you're signing up anyways throw a guy a bone.  This is still sound advice.  )

They are paying what they say, at least at the moment.  Check out this chart:

https://btc-arbs.com/results.html

Beats bank interest any day, eh?  Daily interest on your balance, and easy liquidity (you can withdraw ANYTIME).

It sounds to good to be true, I know, but it does work.  This is why I don't recomend you keeping all your holdings there.  50/50 seems to diversify the risk.  Technically, some elder bitcoiners have looked at it and said the model CAN work, but as always be careful with your money...  don't put all your eggs in one basket.  Still, as a tool in your porfolio, btc-arbs is awesome!

EDIT:  Please note, there is a 0.05 min deposit at BTC arbs and they take up to 6 hours to post deposits MANUALLY.  Just worth noting that's normal for them, not scam behavior.


----------



## THE_EGG (Mar 19, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> Some quick thoughts from an experienced trader:
> 
> wafflepool.com.  This pool is well reviewed and converts your scrypt hashrate straight to bitcoins.  There is also middlecoin but I find them a bit sketchier.  Wafflepool has always been outright honest as heck IMO.
> 
> ...


 I'll check it out on the weekend.


Dumb question as I am a noob with mining but once I sell litecoins on an exchange for what is most likely bitcoins, how do I then sell those bitcoins for USD or AUD. And once I do that how would I actually get to the cash - is there a way to do that through PayPal or something?


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 19, 2014)

Ah, that is a problem outside the US.  I can't really advise there.

In the US< we have coinbase.com, which is actually easier to setup than paypal and links to your bank like a charm.  Outside the US, I can't comment because it's the wild west pretty much as far as I know.

Anyone else want to comment who knows more about an exchange for the AUD?

But yeah, start by converting them into bitcoins.  Safe bet you'll need them in that form to finally get the cash.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Mar 19, 2014)

R-T-B is pretty much right.  Mt. Gox used to offer BTC to AUD exchange but since they went down there's no large companies that offer it.  I doubt that it will be long before one of the major exchanges expands to AUD to replace Mt Gox, but for right now you either have to take a risk with a small exchange or convert to another currency like USD and then convert to AUD.

If you are willing to deal face to face you can also try localbitcoins.com/country/AU.  I've never used localbitcoins but I've heard that it's a good community.  Of course, as with any in-person trading there's some risk of meeting bad actors, but it's not much different than dealing with something like Craigslist.  I would still keep your guard up if you choose to use that site and not use wire transfers for example.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 19, 2014)

I'm also a buyer sometimes via people I trust and paypal, if you want to sell local (as in, in your forum local).

...Not sure I'm in a buying mood now, but check in later.  I might be.


----------



## THE_EGG (Mar 19, 2014)

OK well I found an Australian bitcoin market place thing. https://www.btradeaustralia.com/ It seems to have a good rep so I think I'll use it once I trade my LTC for BTC on an exchange (most likely Cryptsy) and then sell the BTC on bit trade Australia.
Cheers for all your help guys


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 20, 2014)

THE_EGG said:


> OK well I found an Australian bitcoin market place thing. https://www.btradeaustralia.com/ It seems to have a good rep so I think I'll use it once I trade my LTC for BTC on an exchange (most likely Cryptsy) and then sell the BTC on bit trade Australia.
> Cheers for all your help guys



Best of luck!


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## Nordic (Mar 20, 2014)

I am glad it worked out.


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## torrentucci (Apr 11, 2014)

Bitcoins is amazing thing. If you just imagine that you pay your real money to get virtual Bitcoins that do not have any real value. It's the same as pyramide system. And this is a pyramid and the main problem is that one day it will falls. So people do not invest much into bitcoins, just order a small part that you need to pay for something.


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 12, 2014)

torrentucci said:


> Bitcoins is amazing thing. If you just imagine that you pay your real money to get virtual Bitcoins that do not have any real value. It's the same as pyramide system. And this is a pyramid and the main problem is that one day it will falls. So people do not invest much into bitcoins, just order a small part that you need to pay for something.



The analogy to a pyramid scheme is invalid because bitcoin does not need a dollar value to work, nor are you directly funding the initial earlier investors by buying in.  Bitcoin is for certain destined to get knocked down a bit, we're seeing that now, but if you expect bitcoin to collapse, you're dead wrong.

Also, bitcoins do have real value.  You CAN buy things with them directly, therefore like it nor not, they are worth something.


----------



## Peter1986C (Apr 13, 2014)

His last phrase is a good warning though.


----------



## NinkobEi (Apr 13, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> The analogy to a pyramid scheme is invalid because bitcoin does not need a dollar value to work, nor are you directly funding the initial earlier investors by buying in.  Bitcoin is for certain destined to get knocked down a bit, we're seeing that now, but if you expect bitcoin to collapse, you're dead wrong.
> 
> Also, bitcoins do have real value.  You CAN buy things with them directly, therefore like it nor not, they are worth something.



Spoken like a true captain of industry. I guess you're right about buying things though. Drugs, porn and illegal weapons are the three most common uses of Bitcoin. I wouldn't go down the street to try to buy some milk with a bitcoin though.

People have been talking other people into buying worthless stock that they don't need for decades. I don't see how bitcoin is any different.


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 24, 2014)

> Drugs, porn and illegal weapons are the three most common uses of Bitcoin.



I've heard this said for quite some time, but have yet to see one article or statistic backing it up.  With the closure of the Silk road, I find this dubious at best, at one time this was definitely true, but it has evolved far beyond a criminal currency, and I can almost promise you most people who aquire bitcoins do so as an investment vehicle, not to buy guns, drugs, or illegal porn.  I'd actually be surprised if it even beats the USD in that regard in raw percentage used for such activities.

Also, fun fact:  In my town I can run down the street and buy a coffee with bitcoin.  Not that I drink that shit, but yeah...


----------



## NinkobEi (Apr 24, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> I've heard this said for quite some time, but have yet to see one article or statistic backing it up.  With the closure of the Silk road, I find this dubious at best, at one time this was definitely true, but it has evolved far beyond a criminal currency, and I can almost promise you most people who aquire bitcoins do so as an investment vehicle, not to buy guns, drugs, or illegal porn.  I'd actually be surprised if it even beats the USD in that regard in raw percentage used for such activities.
> 
> Also, fun fact:  In my town I can run down the street and buy a coffee with bitcoin.  Not that I drink that shit, but yeah...


How many bitcoins does a cup of coffee cost? Out of curiosity. 

And there have been several sister sites. Project Black Flag, Atlantis. Just google it.
This is an article about Project Black Flag where the owner took everyone's bits and ran.
http://buttcoin.org/silk-road-repla...-closes-shop-owner-thanks-everyone-free-coins

Also, as of yesterday MT Gox is declaring bankruptcy.
https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20140424_announce_qa_en.pdf


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 24, 2014)

> How many bitcoins does a cup of coffee cost? Out of curiosity.



Varies day to day.  I'm sure they are acting like most places and uses bitcoin as a payment transport medium, not an actual currency.  Seems to be it's ideal role at this point in time, it grants us freedom from things like swipe fees and paypal.  They likely use an autoexchanger like coinbase and just turn it into USD.  Basically super cheap payment processing.  And why not?  Don't tell me mastercard and VISA are my friends or have my best interests in mind...  that's a joke and everyone pretty much realizes that now.



> And there have been several sister sites. Project Black Flag, Atlantis. Just google it.
> This is an article about Project Black Flag where the owner took everyone's bits and ran.
> http://buttcoin.org/silk-road-repla...-closes-shop-owner-thanks-everyone-free-coins



Lol buttcoin.

Seriously, I'm well aware of Project Blag Flag and Atlantis.  Ironically, Atlantis has been closed down longer than the Silk Road...  and it took Litecoin, not bitcoin, just FYI.

This still does nothing to support your claim that the majority of bitcoin transactions are criminal.  That was once true, but I doubt it even touches the percentage of the USD used for drug related transactions these days, online or otherwise.



> Also, as of yesterday MT Gox is declaring bankruptcy.
> https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20140424_announce_qa_en.pdf



Mt. Gox has been a joke nearly since it's inception, and few have used it since it froze affordable USD wire transfers over a year ago (nearly 2 years now, actually).


----------



## Nordic (Apr 24, 2014)

On a sidenote, I am glad mtgox is going away. I never did like them, and glad there is now more competition offering a better product.


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 24, 2014)

I've always felt that way about Gox.


----------



## THE_EGG (Apr 25, 2014)

Bitcoin MasterCard

http://gigaom.com/2014/04/24/a-debi...s-the-payment-problem-with-mastercard-tie-in/


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 25, 2014)

> Bitcoin MasterCard



Interesting, but I don't see why it's needed.  What's so hard about scanning a barcode with a private key?  Who doesn't have  a mobile phone today and is using bitcoin?  I'm willing to bet nobody.


----------



## Nordic (Apr 25, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> Interesting, but I don't see why it's needed.  What's so hard about scanning a barcode with a private key?  Who doesn't have  a mobile phone today and is using bitcoin?  I'm willing to bet nobody.


For the people who are scared of new things. For the banks who want to ride the train too.


----------



## NinkobEi (Apr 25, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> Interesting, but I don't see why it's needed.  What's so hard about scanning a barcode with a private key?  Who doesn't have  a mobile phone today and is using bitcoin?  I'm willing to bet nobody.


If bitcoin is supposed to be the currency of the future, how do you expect people who can't afford a cell phones in developing countries to use it?




R-T-B said:


> Varies day to day.  I'm sure they are acting like most places and uses bitcoin as a payment transport medium, not an actual currency.  Seems to be it's ideal role at this point in time, it grants us freedom from things like swipe fees and paypal.  They likely use an autoexchanger like coinbase and just turn it into USD.  Basically super cheap payment processing.  And why not?  Don't tell me mastercard and VISA are my friends or have my best interests in mind...  that's a joke and everyone pretty much realizes that now..


I'm betting it's cheaper, easier, faster and a million times safer to use a visa than bitcoin. Tell me what would happen if the bit chain suddenly had to handle a million transactions in a day. Then tell me what would happen when there are a million in an hour. Bitcoin doesn't have the infrastructure to ever be anything more than an investment for get-rich-quick pyramid schemers, scammers and drug dealers. 

Good luck to the people who think they will ever get their money back from Mt. Gox, because it ain't happening. That is a huge percentage of bitcoins down the drain.

Also Apparently banks are cracking down on any sort of CNY to BTC avenue, including those "voucher" systems.


----------



## THE_EGG (Apr 25, 2014)

NinkobEi said:


> If bitcoin is supposed to be the currency of the future, how do you expect people who can't afford a cell phones in developing countries to use it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK buddy I think I (perhaps we) can see you don't support Bitcoin - which is fine by me, it's your choice. Btw the whole chinese yuan and chinese market thing has been know for a while now. And well bad luck to those who had bitcoins stored/lost through MtGox, bitcoin is still quite an immature currency. Also Bitcoin transactions are generally free or have an extremely low fee associated with them and do not incur a monthly account holding fee. To be honest credit card fraud and identity theft has been going on for some time now, don't tell me it only happens to bitcoin owners/transactions. As far as an increasing number of transactions per day goes, that will no doubt increase over time but the infrastructure will also improve to keep up with this and perhaps even stimulate the economy as it may create jobs in the financial sector to deal with the increasing number of bitcoin transactions.

I read somewhere that bitcoin is gaining interest on wall street so that will be interesting to keep an eye on.

My only concern with this is with the mining side of it. Does the money received from mining count towards a country's GDP? if so then it will inevitably become taxed (where it isn't already taxed). I could be wrong, but I think it is already taxed in America?? not sure though.


----------



## NinkobEi (Apr 25, 2014)

THE_EGG said:


> OK buddy I think I (perhaps we) can see you don't support Bitcoin - which is fine by me, it's your choice. Btw the whole chinese yuan and chinese market thing has been know for a while now. And well bad luck to those who had bitcoins stored/lost through MtGox, bitcoin is still quite an immature currency. Also Bitcoin transactions are generally free or have an extremely low fee associated with them and do not incur a monthly account holding fee. To be honest credit card fraud and identity theft has been going on for some time now, don't tell me it only happens to bitcoin owners/transactions.
> 
> My only concern with this is with the mining side of it. Does the money received from mining count towards a country's GDP? if so then it will inevitably become taxed (where it isn't already taxed). I could be wrong, but I think it is already taxed in America?? not sure though.


I'm glad I am coming across clearly then! Yes I find bitcoin to be an awful thing and actively suggest to people not to use it. Do you know what happens when someone steals my credit card/bank card? I get a call telling me it has been stolen and they send a new one via mail, all charges (if any) are reimbursed and the guy who stole it normally goes to jail. Guess what happens if someone steals your bitcoin wallet. Also guess what happens if the bank I have money stored in goes bankrupt. Let me tell you it turns out nothing like the Mt. Gox situation. People are estimated to lose a total of $500 million dollars from Mt. Gox. That has to go down as one of the bigger losses in history, I would think.


----------



## THE_EGG (Apr 25, 2014)

NinkobEi said:


> I'm glad I am coming across clearly then! Yes I find bitcoin to be an awful thing and actively suggest to people not to use it. Do you know what happens when someone steals my credit card/bank card? I get a call telling me it has been stolen and they send a new one via mail, all charges (if any) are reimbursed and the guy who stole it normally goes to jail. Guess what happens if someone steals your bitcoin wallet. Also guess what happens if the bank I have money stored in goes bankrupt. Let me tell you it turns out nothing like the Mt. Gox situation. People are estimated to lose a total of $500 million dollars from Mt. Gox. That has to go down as one of the bigger losses in history, I would think.



I'd hardly say it was one of the bigger losses in history. Just look at the Lehman brothers back in 08 when they filed for bankruptcy with over $600 billion worth of assets. I think another way of looking at bitcoin at this juncture is that it is a useable 'share' that you might find on the ASX or NYSE etc that you can use to purchase goods and services.

As far as the loss of funds are concerned that is down to Bitcoin still being quite an immature currency. Life is unfair sometimes. For example, I took an $11000AUD loss on my first car after selling it after 4 months due to a faulty DSG gearbox in it (VW Polo TDI DSG - DQ200 gearbox issue). VW would not admit to it being a problem, but just google DQ200 DSG problems and you'll see that it is a worldwide issue. Am I going to get that $11000AUD back? unfortunately no, the class action against VW was pulled as there was no way we could beat a multi-billion if not trillion dollar company in court.

Although with the Bitcoin MasterCard now available it will be interesting to see how that pans out with fraud and if the banks associated with the card will pay up if fraud occurs to a client/customer. Also I think if people understand the risks (and benefits) associated with the usage of bitcoins, then I see no issue with Bitcoin. You could say that anyone using bitcoin at this juncture are beta testers/early adopters for the currency.

---

I didn't even realise this exists. It is great for the currency though, providing jobs etc.
http://www.coindesk.com/europes-first-bitcoin-centre-open-france/


----------



## MT Alex (Apr 25, 2014)

NinkobEi said:


> Let me tell you it turns out nothing like the Mt. Gox situation. People are estimated to lose a total of $500 million dollars from Mt. Gox. That has to go down as one of the bigger losses in history, I would think.



That is chump change compared to market crashes, or even day to day trades on Wall Street.  You put a lot of faith in things like FDIC, which doesn't guarantee the entirety of a banks investments, because it halfway works for now.  The people of Greece and Cyprus wouldn't hold your same high regard to government bailouts.  Hell, even in the USA, the only bailouts go to the ultra elite.  From your posts you don't seem to fit that category, more likely someone who works for or has a buddy at H & R Block.


----------



## Nordic (Apr 25, 2014)

Isn't this like the third time we have gone through this circle NinkobEie? I think you just like to argue, which typically is trollish behavior.

We get bitcoin has flaws, we know and understand them better than most because we use bitcoins. RTB and I have both said we don't find its use as a currency to great. In my opinion bitcoin fails to be a good store of value because of its inherent instability. I also think bitcoin will one in a long long while be replaced by something superior. What will it be, we don't know yet.

I am glad your brought up visa, because that is typically one of my points of what bitcoin is better at. Bitcoin is a really really cool protocol. It does everything that visa and mastercard does. Except instead of being centralized, it is distributed and transparent so everyone can see what address has what money. You can argue whether that is good or bad, but you have made the point that you don't think bitcoin could do it. Currently bitcoin processes about 50,000-100,000 transactions a day. Bitcoin itself is also used significantly less than traditional currencies obviously, but it would scale with the transactions. Bitcoin is the most powerful distributed super computer, and the more popular bitcoin becomes, the more powerful the computing gets. Its all driven by profits.

I don't think any of us here would say that bitcoin is for everyone, at least not yet. If someone is scared, I would tell them to just ignore bitcoin. If they wanted to get involved in mining or speculation, I would say don't put in more than your willing to lose as with any speculation.


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 26, 2014)

> If bitcoin is supposed to be the currency of the future, how do you expect people who can't afford a cell phones in developing countries to use it?



I'm not sure you are aware of this, but cell phones are currently more common than landlines in many (if not most) developing countries.  If they can't get a cell phone, it is further arguable there is no way in hell they are worried about getting a visa.



> I'm betting it's cheaper, easier, faster and a million times safer to use a visa than bitcoin.



What happens if VISA's servers get hacked and all credit card accounts wiped clean?

Even if you have a point on safety, you are dead wrong on every other point.  Swipe fees are borderline ridicules.  Transaction fees in bitcoin are minimal by comparison, and ease of use of bitcoin is quite simplistic.

I don't think bitcoin will replace cash.  I think of it as an alternative way to transport money.  They can and do coexist, this is it's most common use.  Not drugs.  I think you have a massively bad evaluation of it's technological potential to replace the current card transaction system.



> Tell me what would happen if the bit chain suddenly had to handle a million transactions in a day. Then tell me what would happen when there are a million in an hour.



Nothing?  I'm knowledgable of bitcoins source code and I can tell you they would just be compliled into a rather big block.  Actually it wouldn't surprise me if there already are a million transactions per day.

Actually, I don't even need to demonstrate this, because it's already been done.  A DDOS was attempted against source-code-similar litecoin, by sending millions of small "dust transactions."  The network barely farted, and went on as usual.  Most people don't even remember this part of history, and that was on a far smaller network with a nearly identical source code foundation.



> Bitcoin doesn't have the infrastructure to ever be anything more than an investment for get-rich-quick pyramid schemers, scammers and drug dealers.



Jeeze, then I guess all the businesses in my area are drug dealers, eh?

Like it or not, that point is completely bogus and false.  It has all the means and abilities to be an excellent currency transport for the internet, and from what I have seen, this is currently it's primary use.  It doesn't have to REPLACE fiat.  It's just a bridge.  A very good bridge that acts fast.  What's wrong with that?

I for one, have never spent a bitcoin in real life.  I accept them though, and I get a lot of online business that way.  It turns into USD and everyone is happy.  I know this is mind-boggling, but I am neither a drug dealer nor a con artist.  So there.  It does have the infrastructure to be a lot more than a con-routine, who'd have thunk it?



> Good luck to the people who think they will ever get their money back from Mt. Gox, because it ain't happening. That is a huge percentage of bitcoins down the drain.



Huge percentage?  Please.  Gox is largely irrelevant now.  Only extremely old bitcoin users worked there.  Bitcoin hurt more when the silk road was seized and the bitcoins publically auctioned.  Actually people lost more money there, but no one cared because it was a drug marketplace...



> People are estimated to lose a total of $500 million dollars from Mt. Gox. That has to go down as one of the bigger losses in history, I would think.



In history?  No.  It is tragic regardless, but this is why you don't put your money in an exchange that stands for Magic The Gathering Online eXchange.  It isn't wise...  surprising?  Not really.  If they worked in USD it'd be no different.  Actually they did, they were an exchange remember?  People actually deposited USD there as well.  Where'd they go?  Your issue is with poor business practices like Gox, not bitcoin.

Bitcoin, when properly secured, is safe.  The website says it and it's true.  If you don't feel up to securing a wallet (most people don't, and that's ok) it's still plenty safe as a money transport...  and very useful as such to do business with places visa and mastercard don't operate, or are prohibitively expensive.  It also helps to keep them in line economically because people are getting sick of paying someone to use THEIR MONEY every time they swipe a card.


I really don't see what your issue is, save misunderstanding of what Bitcoin actually is.  I'd advise you to reevaluate your position based on the fact that you seem to have very little knowledge about how it actually works, and seem to be taking more issue with poor business practices than the coin around which they are based...  there have been plenty of USD ponzis too you know.

I rest my case.  I want to emphasize though, I am not trying to disrespect you.  I am only trying to point out where you are quite honestly misunderstanding the concept.

Oh, and relevant link:

http://ledracapital.com/blog/2014/2...sed-payment-system-being-rolled-out-worldwide


----------



## Peter1986C (May 1, 2014)

Good news for those in the EU who seek a place for exchanging fiat/cryptos using SEPA bank transfer or iDeal etc., Litebit offers exchanging services starting at €15.

And those with older SHA-256 ASICs might wish to try mining Continuumcoin (CTM), if you manage to trade them for LTC at a reasonable price it might be more profitable than BTC/PPC mining. The only issue is its somewhat unsure future and the price dips (plus LTC/fiat exchanges are scarce in many regions).[/URL]


----------



## NinkobEi (May 5, 2014)

Interesting article on PLEX vs Bitcoin
http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/5/5677734/bitcoin-plex-isk-eve-online


> Dr. Eyjolfur Gudmundsson is the in-house economist at CCP Games, and part of his job is keeping _Eve Online_ and its multiple currencies running smoothly. _Eve Online_ and _Dust 514_ incorporate a series of virtual currencies, such as ISK, Auram and Plex, that are all interconnected and in some cases can be purchased, or sold for, actual currency
> 
> The value of PLEX, which is redeemed for one month of game time in _Eve Online_, is relatively stable. CCP has experimented with allowing players to purchase video cards with PLEX.
> 
> ...


----------



## Nordic (May 5, 2014)

That was an interesting article. He mentions not knowing the code and trust. I have not looked at the code, and if I was too I am not educated in code so I would not even understand it. I personally do trust that there are enough coders out there as popular as bitcoin is that would of poped up and said something if there was something hidden in there. That is where the trust comes in for bitcoin, it is open source.

Awhile back there was a guy, at a black hat conference that proved that bitcoin was very very far from anonymous and how easy it was to figure out which individual owned the the address. You should look up that video @NinkobEi


----------



## THE_EGG (May 6, 2014)

I'm not sure if I fully support this but anyway;
Australian-based company sinks $US30 million into Australia's first bitcoin investment fund
http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/54...into_australia_first_bitcoin_investment_fund/

The best part being;


> The FCBF Fund is conditionally registered as an Early Stage Venture Capital Limited Partnership (ESVCLP) under the Australian Venture Capital Act 2002, which will provide investors in the FCBF fully tax free returns, on income and capital account.


----------



## R-T-B (May 6, 2014)

Oh, yeah, and not to muddy the waters THE_EGG, but BTC Arbs has been acting exceptionally questionable lately.  I'm withdrawing my recommendation to use them.

And bitcoin has never really been anonymous unless using a mixer of some kind, sorta the same as dollars TBH.


----------



## THE_EGG (May 6, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> Oh, yeah, and not to muddy the waters THE_EGG, but BTC Arbs has been acting exceptionally questionable lately.  I'm withdrawing my recommendation to use them.
> 
> And bitcoin has never really been anonymous unless using a mixer of some kind, sorta the same as dollars TBH.


The waters have been muddied! :O
On a serious note though, wouldn't the behaviour of investment funds vary ? Or are they all run by one central fund?


----------



## Nordic (May 6, 2014)

I remember when that guy pirate was running something similar where he was providing some really obscene amount of interest if you left money with him. Bitcoin has already some really high returns but I put that to its volatility and lack central bank. A friend of mine put some money in for a month and pulled out. He made money. It was not two months later though that pirate stopped paying people out and ran away with all the money.

RTB might be able to put more details in there, but that is about the best my memory provides.

I support bitcoin but these arbitrage people could so easily be scammy.


----------



## R-T-B (May 6, 2014)

Their most recent issues are really really frickin' slow withdrawals to the point some people have been waiting weeks without access to their money, they claim it's because they are "merging" with another company and they need to audit their books.

I call shenanigans.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 9, 2014)

Just FYI, the fact no one has noticed newegg now accepting bitcoins is very dissapointing.


----------



## RCoon (Jul 9, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> Just FYI, the fact no one has noticed newegg now accepting bitcoins is very dissapointing.


Most technical related etailers are now!


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## mauriek (Jul 9, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> Just FYI, the fact no one has noticed newegg now accepting bitcoins is very dissapointing.


yup..another billion dollars company accepting bitcoins, good news for the bitcoin community,  i'm sure company this size have enough resource to calculate and help them when they decide to accept it, but like Overstock the Newegg still only big in the US, most of the world only know them by name.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jul 9, 2014)

mauriek said:


> yup..another billion dollars company accepting bitcoins, good news for the bitcoin community,  i'm sure company this size have enough resource to calculate and help them when they decide to accept it, but like Overstock the Newegg still only big in the US, most of the world only know them by name.



It is simple. Charge twice the dollar amount in bitcoins. Take the bitcoins and resell them immediately for market price.


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## R-T-B (Jul 10, 2014)

Easy Rhino said:


> It is simple. Charge twice the dollar amount in bitcoins. Take the bitcoins and resell them immediately for market price.



Generally doesn't happen.  Besides the drama it would cause of bitcoin users boycotting, almost all retailers don't ACTUALLY deal in bitcoins, but use a plugin from coinbase that converts them instantly and pays them at current market rate (not double) in USD.  There are equivalents for other currencies too... though I don't know the names.  Regardless, they don't even touch the bitcoins in most cases.  I don't think a single retailer that is major is doing otherwise, nor should they.


----------



## Peter1986C (Jul 10, 2014)

The IRS rules make it hard to do otherwise for businesses.


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Jul 10, 2014)

I dont get the hype over all this bitcoin stuff. I remember when the inventor posted here explaining what it was and how to set it up and we were all skeptical as shit.


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## Nordic (Jul 11, 2014)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> I dont get the hype over all this bitcoin stuff. I remember when the inventor posted here explaining what it was and how to set it up and we were all skeptical as shit.


The inventor was never on this forum.


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## Norton (Jul 11, 2014)

james888 said:


> The inventor was never on this forum.



I think he was referring to this thread (Compute4Cash):
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/compute4cash-its-a-trap-or-not.140579/


----------



## Nordic (Jul 11, 2014)

Norton said:


> I think he was referring to this thread (Compute4Cash):
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/compute4cash-its-a-trap-or-not.140579/


That is a bit different.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 11, 2014)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> I dont get the hype over all this bitcoin stuff. I remember when the inventor posted here explaining what it was and how to set it up and we were all skeptical as shit.



The hype is I can finally pay for my purchases with a total fee that amounts to usually less than a dime.

It's pretty nice in that regard...  especially considering you usually pay for CC swipe fees in item costs, whether you realize it or not.

Oh, and of course there are people like me who were fairly early investors who just want to see it succeed so we can be even more filthy rich.  But that's not the majority, lol.


----------



## THE_EGG (Jul 11, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> The hype is I can finally pay for my purchases with a total fee that amounts to usually less than a dime.
> 
> It's pretty nice in that regard...  especially considering you usually pay for CC swipe fees in item costs, whether you realize it or not.
> 
> Oh, and of course there are people like me who were fairly early investors who just want to see it succeed so we can be even more filthy rich.  But that's not the majority, lol.


Agreed AND it makes for far cheaper purchases internationally due to being one currency so there is no exchange fee on top of the CC fee when buying things in a foreign currency. On my last holiday I counted that I lost about ~$78AUD in exchange fees looking at my CC statement. I'd much prefer to have that $78 than having to have paid it for some stupid fees. And that doesn't include exchange transaction fees for accommodation purchases either as I stayed with a friend.


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## Darkrealms (Jul 12, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> Generally doesn't happen.  Besides the drama it would cause of bitcoin users boycotting, almost all retailers don't ACTUALLY deal in bitcoins, but use a plugin from coinbase that converts them instantly and pays them at current market rate (not double) in USD.  There are equivalents for other currencies too... though I don't know the names.  Regardless, they don't even touch the bitcoins in most cases.  I don't think a single retailer that is major is doing otherwise, nor should they.


 There is at least one company keeping all the BTC from sales but I can't find that link (sorry its been a while).  But I can link overstock.com's statement about them keeping 10% of all the BTC that comes in.
https://coinreport.net/overstock-holds-earned-bitcoins/


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## Nordic (Jul 12, 2014)

Isn't mega involved with bitcoins somehow? I know the winklevauss twins are involved too, or however you spell it, but I don't know to what scope.


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## R-T-B (Jul 12, 2014)

Winklevoss run coinbase.


----------



## Laurijan (Jul 24, 2014)

Hi! I got a 10GH/sButterfly labs device for next to free and want to invest in a more powerful miner. 
I have looked at the Antminer S1 with 180GH/s but am open to suggestions.


----------



## Peter1986C (Jul 24, 2014)

Wait until the new ASICs come out. They will be far more efficient and powerful, and will make the BTC network diff go up rendering your stuff quite useless.


----------



## Laurijan (Jul 24, 2014)

Chevalr1c said:


> Wait until the new ASICs come out. They will be far more efficient and powerful, and will make the BTC network diff go up rendering your stuff quite useless.


Link?


----------



## qu4k3r (Jul 24, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> Just FYI, the fact no one has noticed newegg now accepting bitcoins is very dissapointing.



I think the first "big" retailer that accepted BTC as payment was TigerDirect.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/bitcoin/

Then Newegg accepted BTC too.
http://www.newegg.com/bitcoin

And now Dell is also accepting BTC.
http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/uscorp1/campaigns/bitcoin-marketing

If some other big companies accept BTC would be a good improvement.


----------



## broken pixel (Jul 24, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> Winklevoss run coinbase.



Where in the hell you get that from? Coinbase was founded by two guys named Brian & Fred, Brian is the CEO.


----------



## Peter1986C (Jul 24, 2014)

Laurijan said:


> Link?



A Blackarrow Prospero X-1 is newer and stated to be much more efficient than a Antminer S1 (_google for reviews just in case_). I do not know what BFL, Technobit etc. are coming with in future but past trends have shown that it might be wise to wait (or get such a Prospero if reviews are positive). Preferrably, get a standalone miner if you can so that it does not need a PC or other host (with PSU and paperclip trick), because that saves you some power and leads to less driver etc. issues.


----------



## broken pixel (Jul 24, 2014)

https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140630025130637RV8OhOwt06BC

I run 2x S1s.




Bitmain produces the best ASIC on the market and you can buy direct from them using Bitcoins. They have fast shipping and good tech support.


----------



## Peter1986C (Jul 25, 2014)

Note that energy prices are much higher in Europe than in NA, which makes otherwise awesome deals barely profitable here. Making folks stuck at (say) $0.10 profit at current value (and no BTC will not go to the moon this year, now there are no Mt.GOX bots any longer. Maybe we break the $700 resistance line in a few months but certainly no rockets).

If buying current gen ASICS, stick to gold-rated Ebay sellers with good 2nd hand machines and _undervolt them_.


----------



## Laurijan (Jul 25, 2014)

broken pixel said:


> https://bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140630025130637RV8OhOwt06BC
> 
> I run 2x S1s.
> 
> Bitmain produces the best ASIC on the market and you can buy direct from them using Bitcoins. They have fast shipping and good tech support.



How many bitcoin you mine per day?


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 25, 2014)

broken pixel said:


> Where in the hell you get that from? Coinbase was founded by two guys named Brian & Fred, Brian is the CEO.



You are completely correct.   I was going by word of mouth, aparently a very unknowledgable mouth in this instance.  Never trust the trollbox...

In other news:

I'm getting one of the big Zeusminers latest scrypt asics tomorrow.  Am planning a teardown to replace the notoriously bad thermal paste on the notoriously hot 55nm chips (yes, they are inefficient, but I have very cheap electric so I don't mind).  Anyone interested in a photolog of the teardown?

Fresh from china, shipping overnight from Hong Kong. 

This is what I ordered, with a signifigant amount of couponage mind you (paid less than $600 ) :

http://zoomhash.com/collections/top...nder-x6-18-20mh-s-low-power-scrypt-asic-miner


----------



## Laurijan (Jul 25, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> You are completely correct.   I was going by word of mouth, aparently a very unknowledgable mouth in this instance.  Never trust the trollbox...
> 
> In other news:
> 
> ...



How come it has only 44MH/s?


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 25, 2014)

Laurijan said:


> How come it has only 44MH/s?



Scrypt ASIC.  Scrypt mines at about 1/1000th the rate of bitcoin.  Mines coins like litecoin, etc.  Not bitcoin.  This is one of the first scrypt asics to be made (techincally, the third batch but still very early adopter stuff).

At the moment, 44MH in litecoin will earn you a little over 15USD a day, but that may change quickly as the ASICs come online.


----------



## broken pixel (Jul 25, 2014)

Laurijan said:


> How come it has only 44MH/s?



It is a Scrypt miner hence the 44MH/s = 4.4GH/s.


----------



## broken pixel (Jul 25, 2014)

Laurijan said:


> How many bitcoin you mine per day?



Around 0.0116 per day.


----------



## Darkrealms (Jul 25, 2014)

Laurijan said:


> Hi! I got a 10GH/sButterfly labs device for next to free and want to invest in a more powerful miner.
> I have looked at the Antminer S1 with 180GH/s but am open to suggestions.


Your best bet right now to get in at a low cost will be the BitMain Tech AntMiner S3 (bitmaintech.com).  It is the 22nm current gen ASICs chip (the S1 and S2 miners are 55nm chips).  The catch to these miners is that you will need a 750-850 watt PSU to power two of them. 
The two most efficient miners to market [Right Now] AntMiner S3 and Spondoolies SP30 but the Spondoolies unit is out of stock.

However anyone that is looking to make bank on mining is out of luck.  I still mine but I understand I will not make the kind of BTC I made back in 2010/2011 (stupidly only running only one cpu then one video card).
Think of it like $1 will probably get you $1.25 worth of BTC after 4+ months of mining with a S3 (current right now) after power, a/c, unit cost, etc is all added up.  Its a great way to convert into BTC over time without having to use an exchange.  And hey BTC is going "to the moon", right ; )


----------



## broken pixel (Jul 25, 2014)

https://tradeblock.com/

Trade in trade out, calc the ROI.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 27, 2014)

Wow, great way to start my scrypt mining asic...

2 days ago, I lept up to greet the DHL driver excitedly, but was not fully awake yet.  I took about 2 steps and fell against the wall.  Instinct told me to brace myself, which resulted in my arm bending all the way backwards and shattering my upper arm humorous (sp?) into 3 distinct pieces.  My arm was hanging on by soft tissue, and I came close to needing an amputation.  I have over 22 screws in my arm now and 2 steel plates, and am hopped up on Vicadin as I write this...

My father acted as my arms, and we did get the miner running, but without knowledge of how to tune it it;'s only doing 33MHash.  Still good.

I'll post photos of our handiwork and a full review in a couple of days, but it will be slow for obvious reasons.  Doing everything with your left hand sucks....


----------



## Nordic (Jul 28, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> Wow, great way to start my scrypt mining asic...
> 
> 2 days ago, I lept up to greet the DHL driver excitedly, but was not fully awake yet.  I took about 2 steps and fell against the wall.  Instinct told me to brace myself, which resulted in my arm bending all the way backwards and shattering my upper arm humorous (sp?) into 3 distinct pieces.  My arm was hanging on by soft tissue, and I came close to needing an amputation.  I have over 22 screws in my arm now and 2 steel plates, and am hopped up on Vicadin as I write this...
> 
> ...


Sounds like you had a good day. What was the DHL drivers reaction to this man opening his door severely injured?|


----------



## MT Alex (Jul 28, 2014)

Sorry about your injury, that's going to be a hard one to recuperate from.


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## theJesus (Jul 28, 2014)

Sue DHL


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## R-T-B (Jul 28, 2014)

lol...  the driver was long gone.  Either didn't hear me and was moving quickly back to the truck, or DID hear me and ran like hell.  The way I was screaming and cussing, I'm not going to sue because it WAS pretty scary sounding.

...Am surprised he didn't call 911 or something though.  Fortunately my father was home and helped me in a matter of minutes.


----------



## THE_EGG (Jul 28, 2014)

The things people do to mine bitcoins... It must have been a big ass tumble for you to require all that, glad you didn't have to get it amputated though :O

Looking forward to pics of the miner, see if you can get Dragon or something for voice recognition on your pc.


----------



## theJesus (Jul 28, 2014)

R-T-B said:


> lol...  the driver was long gone.  Either didn't hear me and was moving quickly back to the truck, or DID hear me and ran like hell.  The way I was screaming and cussing, I'm not going to sue because it WAS pretty scary sounding.
> 
> ...Am surprised he didn't call 911 or something though.  Fortunately my father was home and helped me in a matter of minutes.


Pfft, suing for things beyond the defendant's control is the American way.


----------



## R-T-B (Jul 29, 2014)

THE_EGG said:


> The things people do to mine bitcoins... It must have been a big ass tumble for you to require all that, glad you didn't have to get it amputated though :O
> 
> Looking forward to pics of the miner, see if you can get Dragon or something for voice recognition on your pc.



Working on that today or tomorrow.  Typing with my left isn't so bad that I'd resort to voice command, but yeah it was a big ass tumble.

After surgery my father informed me the wall I hit isn't just drywall, but backed by about 4 sheets of drywall for some odd reason during numerous remodels.  That made it invincible to my puny manflesh and "snap!" was the only thing that could happen really with my level of excitement/acceleration.

But back on topic:  This won't be an ROI investment.  My hospital bill already tops that, even with insurance... D:


----------



## Laurijan (Aug 8, 2014)

Chevalr1c said:


> Wait until the new ASICs come out. They will be far more efficient and powerful, and will make the BTC network diff go up rendering your stuff quite useless.



Is an Antminer S3 440GH/s a new ASIC by your definition?


----------



## Peter1986C (Aug 8, 2014)

I believe it is. Read reviews yo see whether it is any good.
I did not keep track of that ASIC stuff esp. since most newer coins are all Proof-of-Stake and have only ASIC-incompatible ciphers for their usually less-than-a-month Proof-of-Work phases. And mining BTC itself has gotten way too expensive for me to ever be a realistic thing to do (I cannot afford the huge investments in HW, power etc. to do that). And the BTC value is having difficulties getting above $600 lately.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Aug 20, 2014)

In case anyone's interested, Newegg is selling Playstation 4 consoles today only for $319.99 (normally $399.99) if you buy using BTC.  Use promo code BCPS410.  I just bought one for myself, and even if I don't want to keep it I could definitely resell it for a profit.

I'm posting this here instead of the Hot Deals forum because unless you have existing BTC it's hard to take advantage of the deal in such a short time frame.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 20, 2014)

Keeping track of ASIC stuff is usually pretty easy.  Just check the nanometer process they use, lower=better on almost every occasion.

My zeusminer I bought aparently uses a 55nm process, which is a major bummer in energy efficiency.  Glad I live in cheap energy town.


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## Peter1986C (Aug 22, 2014)

Things like whether it is standalone or needs a host and/or paper-clipped PSU matter too. How loud the fans are etc as well. When going to "invest" you want to be getting bang for your bucks.


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## R-T-B (Aug 22, 2014)

Good point.


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## qu4k3r (Sep 25, 2014)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8566/paypal-announces-bitcoin-support


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## Nordic (Sep 25, 2014)

I never thought that would happen, even when rumours were put out about it.


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## Easy Rhino (Sep 25, 2014)

james888 said:


> I never thought that would happen, even when rumours were put out about it.



Me neither. I think that should stabilize the currency a bit.


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## The Von Matrices (Sep 25, 2014)

PayPal's recent announcement is overblown, since they aren't providing anything innovative.  All PayPal did is implement the Coinbase/BitPay/GoCoin API, which allows buyers to send BTC to Coinbase/BitPay/GoCoin, is converted by Coinbase/BitPay/GoCoin to USD, and then deposited in the PayPal merchant account as USD.  This is no different than any business could have done using the Coinbase/BitPay/GoCoin API directly.

If PayPal was hosting wallets and allowed you to hold BTC balances, that would be a stunning announcement.  In contrast, this announcement is just more evidence that PayPal isn't attempting to innovate with Bitcoin but instead is slowly (and seemingly unwillingly) being forced to adopt Bitcoin.


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## Nordic (Sep 25, 2014)

The Von Matrices said:


> PayPal's recent announcement is overblown, since they aren't providing anything innovative.  All PayPal did is implement the Coinbase/BitPay/GoCoin API, which allows buyers to send BTC to Coinbase/BitPay/GoCoin, is converted by Coinbase/BitPay/GoCoin to USD, and then deposited in the PayPal merchant account as USD.  This is no different than any business could have done using the Coinbase/BitPay/GoCoin API directly.
> 
> If PayPal was hosting wallets and allowed you to hold BTC balances, that would be a stunning announcement.  In contrast, this announcement is just more evidence that PayPal isn't attempting to innovate with Bitcoin but instead is slowly (and seemingly unwillingly) being forced to adopt Bitcoin.


Its surprising because paypal was so anti bitcoin. They froze accounts just for buying or selling bitcoins. Its the support that shocks us, not the implementation.


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## The Von Matrices (Sep 25, 2014)

james888 said:


> Its surprising because paypal was so anti bitcoin. They froze accounts just for buying or selling bitcoins. Its the support that shocks us, not the implementation.


That's still the case right now; nothing has changed.  It's against PayPal's terms to buy _any_ currency (not just BTC) from a seller and use PayPal to send any other currency to the seller in exchange.

Section 3H of PayPal's terms of use:
_You may not use the PayPal service for activities that... involve currency exchanges or check cashing businesses._

The only real reversal of policy in the past year is allowing the selling of physical products related to Bitcoin that aren't currency (e.g. mining hardware).  Although in all honesty, that policy was more likely due to the uncertainty about the legal status of mining hardware at the time rather than some plan to prevent Bitcoin adoption.


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## broken pixel (Sep 26, 2014)

Used S1 for 90.00 USD each. 

http://buyahash.com/shop/antminer-s1-180-ghs-asic-miner/


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## Peter1986C (Oct 5, 2014)

Keep a good look at BitcoinDark and FIBRE coin! The best way to get them might be the xpool.ca multipools (or Bittrex/Cryptsy). They are PoS with high interest and are still improving on their */BTC exchange rates. It may be the best way to ride out the low BTC value storm and perhaps they turn into a worthy successor to BTC one day.


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## broken pixel (Oct 5, 2014)

BTC 284.00 USD.


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## Peter1986C (Oct 7, 2014)

We are climbing out of the depth as it seems: http://www.coindesk.com/price/

Edit: lol BTC is gonna need PoS because the miners will not keep confidence with junk like this. The floor is again having struggles with its identity (it's unsure whether it is truly a floor, or not).


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## Darkrealms (Oct 10, 2014)

Mining is only going up and vendor buy in is still rising.  The benefits for vendors of BTC over credit cards is huge (percentages and chargebacks).  I don't see BTC going away.

Right now we are dealing with a ton of "investors" and weak hand early adopters getting out.  Also the vendors that are accepting BTC are turning around and selling it (technically many of them never touch the BTC).  Most mining firms right now are selling as soon as they get BTC as well.  That is a lot of downward pressure when mainstream consumers have barely heard of the weird digital currency that seems to be tied to scandals and drugs (per main stream news).

For those looking at BTC hardware http://cryptomining-blog.com/ had an article on current hardware.  I am linking the stats they posted.  _This is only including currently available hardware._


			
				cryptomining-blog.com said:
			
		

> *SHA-256D ASIC Miners for Bitcoin:*
> Rockminer R3 Box – 450 GHS @ 450W – $185 USD
> BitMain AntMiner S3+ – 453 GHS @ 355W – $215 USD
> Rockminer T1 BOX – 800 GHS @ 1000W – $349 USD
> ...


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## Nordic (Oct 10, 2014)

I had to explain the other day that bitcoin is not inherently a drug smuggling operation. The person was presenting that it was in class.


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## theJesus (Oct 11, 2014)

Darkrealms said:


> Mining is only going up and vendor buy in is still rising.  The benefits for vendors of BTC over credit cards is huge (percentages and chargebacks).  I don't see BTC going away.
> 
> Right now we are dealing with a ton of "investors" and weak hand early adopters getting out.  Also the vendors that are accepting BTC are turning around and selling it (technically many of them never touch the BTC).  Most mining firms right now are selling as soon as they get BTC as well.  That is a lot of downward pressure when mainstream consumers have barely heard of the weird digital currency that seems to be tied to scandals and drugs (per main stream news).
> 
> For those looking at BTC hardware http://cryptomining-blog.com/ had an article on current hardware.  I am linking the stats they posted.  _This is only including currently available hardware._


I envy those of you who either have dirt-cheap electricity or don't pay for electricity.  Based on those stats, I'd actually lose money every month running any one of those miners due to the power usage.  Granted the value of BTC isn't exactly at it's peak right now . . .


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## Jetster (Oct 11, 2014)

I miss the prices I was getting for AMD graphics cards


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## The Von Matrices (Oct 11, 2014)

theJesus said:


> I envy those of you who either have dirt-cheap electricity or don't pay for electricity.  Based on those stats, I'd actually lose money every month running any one of those miners due to the power usage.  Granted the value of BTC isn't exactly at it's peak right now . . .


It's not the electricity cost that matters at the moment; basically everyone buying a miner today won't earn back their investment even with cheap/free electricity.  I support Bitcoin but I have no idea why people continue to buy mining equipment at a loss when they could just buy the coins directly.  I suppose the only reason that hashrate and network difficulty only keep increasing is because pre-orders for mining equipment were placed 6 months ago.  Since most companies selling miners prevent the cancellation of pre-orders, people are forced to receive them and mine back as much value as they can.


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## heather ables (Oct 29, 2016)

i have just gotten a couple of antminer u2 usbs and im having issues with getting them setup on my current account on slushs pool could i possibly get someone to remote in and set this up for me


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## bogmali (Oct 29, 2016)

heather ables said:


> i have just gotten a couple of antminer u2 usbs and im having issues with getting them setup on my current account on slushs pool could i possibly get someone to remote in and set this up for me



Usually I would close this because it is a 2 year old thread and not active but I will let it be since you are asking for help. May I suggest PMing @R-T-B or @Easy Rhino and see if they can help you


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## R-T-B (Oct 29, 2016)

I'm out of the mining scene for almost 2 years, but thanks for remembering me.


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## jboydgolfer (Oct 29, 2016)

is private mining still a thing? i thought that became too hard to be worth it after 2012'ish or 2010'ish.
nowadays is it dedicated miners that people are using? i mean private miners, not farms.


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## R-T-B (Oct 29, 2016)

jboydgolfer said:


> is private mining still a thing? i thought that became too hard to be worth it after 2012'ish or 2010'ish.
> nowadays is it dedicated miners that people are using? i mean private miners, not farms.



It's mostly chinese asic farms directly mining bitcoin, though I'm sure you could mine some altcoin and exchange it for bitcoin if you wanted.  I was never into that much.


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## broken pixel (Oct 29, 2016)

I still mine with an s7 sitting on a rack with 35 dormant s1's. I have been mining BTC & ALTs since 2012. i should of bought BTC when I discovered them for 10 cents each, oh well.


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## The Von Matrices (Oct 29, 2016)

jboydgolfer said:


> is private mining still a thing? i thought that became too hard to be worth it after 2012'ish or 2010'ish.
> nowadays is it dedicated miners that people are using? i mean private miners, not farms.



SHA-256 is much more centralized than the other algorithms.  At my scrypt pool, there are a lot of individuals who own just one ASIC and mine with the pool.  The big challenge is getting your hands on a current generation ASIC since large mining farms are typically the first to get new hardware.


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## Easy Rhino (May 25, 2017)

Wish I kept those coins!


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## jboydgolfer (May 25, 2017)

I remember I had done it years back when it was first introduced and I had quite a few but I have no idea what I did with the wallet or the information that it was bound to


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## NdMk2o1o (May 25, 2017)

jboydgolfer said:


> I remember I had done it years back when it was first introduced and I had quite a few but I have no idea what I did with the wallet or the information that it was bound to


Ouch :\ 

I dont think it's profitable now unless you have a few $1000's to spend on mining HW, aren't there now alternatives?


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## dorsetknob (May 25, 2017)

has the price/value of them increased since the latest ransomeware attack


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## broken pixel (May 25, 2017)

Bitcoin reached 2800 per BTC on a few exchanges today. Look into ETH, It was cheap 4 months ago around 9.50 USD & hit 213.00 yesterday.


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## R-T-B (May 25, 2017)

Wish I'd waited a year or two more to cash out as well, but meh, name of the game.


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## broken pixel (May 25, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Wish I'd waited a year or two more to cash out as well, but meh, name of the game.



Yupers! I sold 142 ETH at 30.00 USD a month ago, ooops! I still have 100 ETH left. If I would of invested 60k into ETH 4 months ago I could of made over a million.


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## ZenZimZaliben (May 25, 2017)

I'm still sitting on mine...but becoming a concern considering their value now.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Aug 23, 2017)

DiegoD said:


> Bitcoin is the most popular crypto currency at the moment. Bitcoin created a lot of noise around. In turn, I want to invest money in bitcoins. I read a very expanded article about buying bitcoins, but I want to hear recommendations about the purchase. How much money can I get on Btc? I still didn't come to a decision whether to own the bitcoins.



You don't have to rush out and buy a full Bitcoin. Bitcoins can be broken down to it's smallest denomination, which is 1 Satoshi. 1 Satoshi is worth .00000001 Bitcoins. So you can avoid the sticker shock of purchasing full bitcoins and lower your risk by purchasing smaller quantities.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 25, 2017)

I think at this point the price is simply too inflated. It will drop again and when it does it may be worth purchasing.


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## R-T-B (Aug 25, 2017)

Easy Rhino said:


> I think at this point the price is simply too inflated. It will drop again and when it does it may be worth purchasing.



Honestly, it's hard to say.  People keep saying that figure of $50,000 is "inflated" (and to frank, it probably is but bear with me) and quote the total market cap it would be assuming all bitcoins in circulation are well...  in circulation.

I don't know about most bitcoin miners, but I lost a shitton of them from back in the day via not caring about old wallets.  I'm sure it's not an uncommon story.  I bet a lot have been permantly lost, which will make value rise more than expected.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 25, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Honestly, it's hard to say.  People keep saying that figure of $50,000 is "inflated" (and to frank, it probably is but bear with me) and quote the total market cap it would be assuming all bitcoins in circulation are well...  in circulation.
> 
> I don't know about most bitcoin miners, but I lost a shitton of them from back in the day via not caring about old wallets.  I'm sure it's not an uncommon story.  I bet a lot have been permantly lost, which will make value rise more than expected.



I am one of those people. I lost a few of them back when they were worth about 1 dollar. I guess I hope the value continues to increase.


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## 9dream (Dec 30, 2017)

AphexDreamer said:


> I don't know whats going on but I generated another 50!
> 
> I get my first in 9 more blocks and the second has 90 more blocks before I get it.
> 
> once I get it I'll post a screen shot



Hello 

I sent it off but did not get any in my wallet
What do I need to do to get it?

Thank you


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## qubit (Mar 2, 2018)

Apparently, it's all a gigantic terrorist Ponzi scheme, if you're Diane Abbott. See what you think.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/diane-abbott-bitcoin_uk_5a981eace4b07dffeb708b94


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## R-T-B (Mar 2, 2018)

qubit said:


> Apparently, it's all a gigantic terrorist Ponzi scheme, if you're Diane Abbott. See what you think.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/diane-abbott-bitcoin_uk_5a981eace4b07dffeb708b94



Could this have been posted somewhere like the state of crypto?

Isn't this a really old thread?  I mean like historic old?

EDIT:  No, it just started historically old I guess.


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## qubit (Mar 2, 2018)

R-T-B said:


> Could this have been posted somewhere like the state of crypto?
> 
> Isn't this a really old thread?  I mean like historic old?
> 
> EDIT:  No, it just started historically old I guess.


I did have a look around and this thread seemed to be the most appropriate one. Dunno, if a mod wants to move my post, that's ok with me. @Tatty_One waddya think?


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## R-T-B (Mar 2, 2018)

qubit said:


> I did have a look around and this thread seemed to be the most appropriate one. Dunno, if a mod wants to move my post, that's ok with me. @Tatty_One waddya think?



Pretty much a false alarm on my part from looking at the day 1 post dates, don't fret it.


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