# Throttlestop TS bench (Errors)



## Finesto (Feb 14, 2021)

I've been using Throttlestop carefully for the past months & just followed youtube guides how to lower the temperature of your laptop, but recently i've been tryna figure out everything, so it doesn't feel as scary anymore.

Now iknow what Benchmarking means/ does i tried doing a few benchmarks & at first it didn't show any errors but now it gives me 6 errors with no explanation.
Hoping any professionals here can help me out & tell me what exactly should be causing the errors.

C states are low as the Benchmark already finished, i waited out to see if digits would pop up in red, but nothing popped up.


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## unclewebb (Feb 14, 2021)

Finesto said:


> 6 errors with no explanation


Any error during any benchmark is not good. When the TS Bench reports an error, that means it has done the exact same calculation twice and ended up with a different result each time.

2 + 2 = 4
2 + 2 = 5

A stable computer does not do that. A stable computer reports the exact same results each time it does a calculation.

If you used ThrottleStop to reduce your CPU voltage then you have gone too far. Your computer is not 100% stable. It might have been stable a month ago but it is not 100% stable now. Some users do not care about a few TS Bench errors. If you have been game stable for the last month, you might decide to ignore these errors.

What are your voltage settings? Post some more pics of the FIVR and TPL windows. If you want these errors to go away, your CPU is probably going to need some more voltage. On the 9750H, it is usually the cache that needs more voltage. These errors might also be caused by your CPU running hot.

When using the Windows Balanced power plan, it is usually best to let Windows 10 manage the Speed Shift EPP setting. When you check the Speed Shift EPP option in ThrottleStop, you will end up with Windows and ThrottleStop writing different values to the same CPU register. Try clearing the Speed Shift EPP box in ThrottleStop. Move the Windows power slider back and forth in the system tray and then watch in the FIVR monitoring table what EPP values the CPU is using. On Best performance, Windows usually sets EPP to 84. If Windows can manage the EPP setting appropriately, there is no need to use ThrottleStop to try and manage EPP too.


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## Finesto (Feb 15, 2021)

I disabled Speed shift, made me get one error. Tried it again & no error. Tried to disable the "Balanced" check & 1 error, tried it again & no errors.
Whenever i do these TS benchmarks my laptop does get to 90+ degrees so is that whats causing the errors?

My voltages are set pretty high, its -144 on both the CPU core & CPU Cache, i ignored the Intel CPU and that is still 0.


*Third screenshot at the bottom shows:
Max temperature/processor, Wattage power, Current processor load

I'll post another picture to see the Idle state. Idk if it matters, but more info the better.


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## unclewebb (Feb 15, 2021)

Finesto said:


> I disabled Speed shift


Your screenshots do not show that. If ThrottleStop shows SST in green, Speed Shift is enabled in your processor. If the BIOS enables Speed Shift, there is no way to disable it when you are in Windows.



Finesto said:


> -144 on both


I have never seen a 9750H that is 100% stable with the cache offset set to -144 mV. That is why you are getting errors. Reduce the cache offset to -125 mV like everyone else is using. Then you can increase only the CPU core offset up as high as -200 mV. Do some testing with Cinebench R20.









						MAXON Cinebench (R20.0) Download
					

CINEBENCH is a real-world cross platform test suite that evaluates your computer's performance capabilities. CINEBENCH is based on MAXON's award-winn




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Most 9750H owners see an increase in performance or a decrease in temperatures when these two voltages are set to different values.


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## Finesto (Feb 15, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Your screenshots do not show that. If ThrottleStop shows SST in green, Speed Shift is enabled in your processor. If the BIOS enables Speed Shift, there is no way to disable it when you are in Windows.



Do i need to disable it when it's automatically enabled by default? I mean, i'm not even sure if i have a windows balanced plan, i assume it's there by default? I do see a performance boost in FPS when i drop down my Speedshift to 0 then if i would keep it at 128.

I edited the values off both CPU core & cache and haven't had an error on the TS bench.

I did as told and did a few tests with Cinebench.
I have two drivers installed, Intel UHD 630 & Nvidia integrated one (non gaming & gaming, its a specific mode called Hybrid mode on my lenovo laptop) & here are the results. So if i'm correct my performance improved with the throttlestop settings (on the nvidia graphics card) or is it just cause my nvidia card is better in performance*?

Anyways, seems like the issue has been fixed. Thanks for your time, much appreciated.

Edited a few things regarding speed shift*


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## unclewebb (Feb 15, 2021)

Finesto said:


> Do i need to disable it


Why would you want to disable something that works great? Speed Shift Technology was specifically designed for laptops. It improves responsiveness while using less power. Anyone that recommends disabling Speed Shift in a laptop probably does not understand its purpose.



Finesto said:


> called Hybrid mode


That sounds like a new name for Nvidia Optimus. This has been around for years. The Intel GPU is used for light load stuff like when you are using the internet and the Nvidia GPU kicks in when playing games. Cinebench is a test of your CPU. It does not use the GPU so it should not make any difference if you tell Cinebench to use the Nvidia GPU or not.

Your Cinebench results improved because your CPU is running better with your new voltage settings. Reducing the cache offset voltage to-125 mV improves stability and increasing the core offset towards -200 mV gives better performance or better temps. Did you try testing Cinebench with the core at -175 mV and -225 mV?


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## Finesto (Feb 15, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> When using the Windows Balanced power plan, it is usually best to let Windows 10 manage the Speed Shift EPP setting. When you check the Speed Shift EPP option in ThrottleStop, you will end up with Windows and ThrottleStop writing different values to the same CPU register. Try clearing the Speed Shift EPP box in ThrottleStop. Move the Windows power slider back and forth in the system tray and then watch in the FIVR monitoring table what EPP values the CPU is using. On Best performance, Windows usually sets EPP to 84. If Windows can manage the EPP setting appropriately, there is no need to use ThrottleStop to try and manage EPP too.



I moved my power tray as you mentioned & it did show a difference in EPP when i unchecked Speedshift (First picture will clarify). I asked if i should disable it as you said that it's not convenient for both throttlestop & the windows one to opperate at the same time. I do see my FPS improve whenever i'm gaming on lower EPP (which i manually did on throttlestop), i also see my temperature lower when i enable speedshift on 128 or more.



unclewebb said:


> That sounds like a new name for Nvidia Optimus. This has been around for years. The Intel GPU is used for light load stuff like when you are using the internet and the Nvidia GPU kicks in when playing games. Cinebench is a test of your CPU. It does not use the GPU so it should not make any difference if you tell Cinebench to use the Nvidia GPU or not.



It indeed was Nvidia Optimus i believe. I've seen that name pass around on the Lenovo forums when i had a problem with Lenovo Vantage (where i switch the mode).
Anyways, alright i did not know that. By now you can tell i'm not that knowledged in these things, although i wouldn't call myself an average PC user. That's for debate however lol



unclewebb said:


> Reducing the cache offset voltage to-125 mV improves stability and increasing the core offset towards -200 mV gives better performance or better temps. Did you try testing Cinebench with the core at -175 mV and -225 mV?



I changed my Core to -175 & tried another Cinebench;
Is it normal for my laptop to get over 94 degrees when i do these benchmarks? I would assume so but it's still a scary sight as i'm aware that your components get damaged at around those temperatures. When i noticed that i enabled speedshift EPP at 128 to reduce temperatures, though it showed my performance decreasing. Unaware if it's cause i enabled my speedshift, or just cause i lowered the core.

* Also my Limit reasons bar is cleared out for the most part, but still shows Thermal & EDP other in yellow. I assume that the Thermal one appeared cause i benchmarked & my temperatures rose. I've read your reddit comment from a year ago that yellow is fine, but what exactly does this mean & what can i do to get rid of those aswell (maybe you can figure this out with the past screenshots i have given).

Sorry for all the questions but you're actually helping me immensely with understanding more about throttlestop.


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## unclewebb (Feb 15, 2021)

Your screenshots show that Windows is in control of the Speed Shift EPP variable. You only need to check the Speed Shift EPP option in ThrottleStop if Windows is not setting EPP correctly. An EPP setting of 0 or 84 is appropriate for most situations. If you want to use 128 or maybe 192 for a battery profile, try checking the Speed Shift EPP box in ThrottleStop, open the FIVR window and see what value the CPU is actually using. If you are using the Windows Balanced power plan, you might find that the EPP request you set in ThrottleStop is ignored because Windows is writing EPP information to the EPP register faster than ThrottleStop is writing to this register. I prefer not to get into situations like this where Windows and ThrottleStop are fighting over control of the same thing. In that situation, it is best to clear the Speed Shift EPP box in ThrottleStop and just let Windows manage this.

If you want ThrottleStop to manage EPP, try switching to the Windows High Performance power plan. You might be able to combine this with an EPP setting of 128 or greater in ThrottleStop. Windows used to put up less of a fight over EPP when in High Performance compared to when Windows is using a Balanced power plan.

In the ThrottleStop Options window, if you turn on Nvidia GPU, this will show the GPU temperature on the main screen. When Nvidia Optimus kicks in, the Nvidia GPU should go into a low power state and the Intel GPU will take over. When this happens, ThrottleStop will show GPU -- °C. This means that ThrottleStop is allowing the Nvidia GPU to stay in its low power state. No use waking up a sleeping GPU just to find out what temperature it is at. Best to let it stay asleep to reduce power consumption and temps.

If you check Nvidia GPU and ThrottleStop constantly reports a GPU temperature, that means that you have some software on your computer that is constantly keeping the Nvidia GPU awake.



Finesto said:


> Is it normal for my laptop to get over 94 degrees


This is a common operating temperature. Intel has been using the same 14nm technology for the last 6 years. To compete with AMD, they keep raising the MHz which increases heat and power consumption. Most gaming laptops run at high temperatures like this for hours on end. It seems bad but if Intel was concerned, they would either lower the thermal throttling temperature or they would slow their CPUs down so they do not run so hot. They are getting every last little bit of performance out of their ancient 14nm design.

Your laptop set the thermal throttling temperature to 94°C instead of the Intel recommended value of 100°C. Lenovo likes to do this. When you see THERMAL in red in Limit Reasons, that means thermal throttling is in progress. After one of these episodes is finished, you will see THERMAL in yellow which is just an indicator that some thermal throttling happened. In the ThrottleStop Options window, if the PROCHOT Offset value is not locked, you can decrease the amount of offset. This will increase the thermal throttling temperature so your CPU will be able to run at its full 100°C rated temperature. Many laptops set PROCHOT Offset to 2 or 3 so there is a little bit of headroom. Setting the offset to 6 so the CPU starts to thermal throttle at 94°C is being a little too conservative in my opinion. I do not have to pay for any warranty claims. Perhaps manufacturers have a legit reason why they do this but I still do not agree with it. If Intel says a CPU is good to run at up to 100°C then let it run to that temperature or be honest with consumers and let them know that you are doing this. Reducing temperatures sounds good but not if it is also reducing maximum performance. Lenovo has some laptops that are dropping the throttling temperature to 65°C. That can kill performance.


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## Finesto (Feb 16, 2021)

So when i was balanced power plan with my FIVR open & i changed my speedshift EPP, it would change to the windows EPP and then it looked like the throttlestop EPP overruled it, which made the EPP be set to the amount i manually did through speedshift.
But anyways, i created a new power plan & it doesn't do that anymore. (1)

My CPU Core is set to -225 as you said & it increased slightly in performance again. Is that the limit i can go with the core, or can i go higher? If so, does it even further improve my performance or not. (2)

Okay so i don't have to worry about reaching prochot 94°C. My limit reason bar is empty now, so i guess it all worked out. Those options about locking offset or decreasing the max temperature are both unchecked btw, ill post a picture but, do i need to change anything on there? I'd say my performance is pretty good so i'm not sure. (3)

Btw when i ran a tsbench with my temperatures rising, my Nvidia GPU stayed quite stable on a low temperature, what does that conclude? (4)

One more question, there's a "Balanced, Performance, Powersaver" bar on my main screen on the throttlestop app which i can check or uncheck. I did another test with it being on performance but it actually decreased by like 50 pts, so i'm not sure if it does alot. (5)

Once again, thanks for your time

*Pictures below to enlighten my questions


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## unclewebb (Feb 16, 2021)

@Finesto - I let Windows 10 manage the Speed Shift EPP variable. You do not need to check Speed Shift EPP in ThrottleStop if Windows can handle this appropriately.

-225 mV for the core is about as good as it gets. Benchmark scores flat line somewhere around here. You can go as high as -1000 mV. The CPU ignores any excess voltage request so you will not see any improvements by going sky high.

If you do not have any thermal throttling issues then you can leave PROCHOT Offset unchecked and set to 6. This setting tells the CPU to start thermal throttling at 94°C instead of 100°C. If you ever need some more headroom before thermal throttling kicks in, reduce the PROCHOT Offset value and this will increase the thermal throttling temperature. Intel default is 0 offset.

The TS Bench does not use the Nvidia GPU so your GPU temps should be stable during this test. If ThrottleStop is reporting a GPU temperature during a CPU only test, that means some software on your computer is keeping your Nvidia GPU active when it probably should not be. Nvidia includes an option so you can watch to see what programs are using the Nvidia GPU. My computer reports *GPU --°C* during the TS Bench test. This confirms that the Nvidia GPU is in a low power state, having a snooze.

The last picture where you drew the red box around Balanced. This option lets you change between the Windows Balanced or Windows High Performance power plans. It is just a convenient way to access this. A lot of new Windows 10 laptops have disabled and hidden access to the Windows High Performance power plan. I found that this plan still exists within Windows 10 so now users that want it can access it. If you do lots of tests, there should not be a big performance difference between these two plans. There is a lot of random variation when full load benchmark testing in Windows 10 so you will need to run a lot of tests to prove anything one way or the other. If you run benchmark tests back to back, there might be less turbo boost reserve for the second test so it might end up performing a lot worse. This is why you need to do A - B - A testing where you go back to your original settings and test again to try and prove is something really is better or not. A lot of conclusions are made based on some not so great testing methods.

Now that you have everything figured out, download TS 9.3 and you can start testing again.   









						ThrottleStop (9.5) Download
					

ThrottleStop is a small application designed to monitor for and correct the three main types of CPU throttling that are being used on many lapto




					www.techpowerup.com


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## AOne (Feb 16, 2021)

Just to mention - my nVidia GPU is always active when the external monitor is connect even if totally idle (watching the desktop's background only). Only when I unplug the monitor, it switches off leaving all to the Intel's built in GPU.


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## Finesto (Feb 16, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Now that you have everything figured out, download TS 9.3 and you can start testing again.



I downloaded it! Though whilst we're still here, noticed that theres 4 options with the windows power plan & the EPP are as followed:

-High performance - 0
-Performance - 0
-Balanced - 127
-Power savings - 153

I'm not going to question your coding lmao, but no inbetween 0 - 127? I quite liked the 84 one, i guess the difference isn't much?

/nvm on the last part


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## unclewebb (Feb 16, 2021)

Finesto said:


> I'm not going to question your coding


Thank you. When switching to different Windows power plans, Windows is in charge of the EPP setting so you cannot blame me anyhow.  

I prefer an EPP setting of 84 when running on battery power. For plugged in, I like 0. It makes very little difference to power consumption. You can have a fast and efficient CPU when it runs at full speed all of the time.


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## Finesto (Feb 16, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> Windows is in charge of the EPP setting so you cannot blame me anyhow.



Haha all good, i'm going to keep them unchecked anyway, as you mentioned before i don't really need it with my windows plan. 

And yeah i figured it doesn't consume that much more power, but maybe it would decrease more in performance with balanced mode being set to 127.
Weirdly enough i study electronics (arduino & stuff) in uni, but i'm not the best at it.

Either way thanks for your time & specifically your response time. I think i'm starting to get the hang of it which makes it kinda fun testing benchmarks


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