# Looking to run a 12900K build with DDR4 in gear 1, is this a good kit?



## 15th Warlock (Nov 27, 2021)

Greetings fellow forumites!

I'm looking for a DDR4 kit that will allow me to run my 12900K in gear one, meaning 2000MHz double data rate.

I found this kit online:

G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Intel XMP 2.0 Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C18D-32GTZN






						G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C18D-32GTZN Desktop Memory - Newegg.com
					

Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Neo Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 4000 (PC4 32000) Desktop Memory Model F4-4000C18D-32GTZN Desktop Memory with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Newegg shopping upgraded ™




					www.newegg.com
				




Would this kit help me achieve that? I tried OCing my current kit but the most I could achieve was 3800MHz  by relaxing the timings and upping the voltage to 1.40V, no bueno.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Hope you and your families are having a good holiday weekend


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## mrthanhnguyen (Nov 27, 2021)

Not only ram kit but your cpu imc also is important to run gear 1 4000mhz. U can buy 8x2 kit. Single rank is easier than dual rank.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 27, 2021)

mrthanhnguyen said:


> Not only ram kit but your cpu imc also is important to run gear 1 4000mhz. U can buy 8x2 kit. Single rank is easier than dual rank.



Thank you, from what I understand, Alder Lake's memory controller runs at 2000MHz, now, would you know if the kit I mentioned above is single or dual rank?

Thank you again for your response.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 27, 2021)

15th Warlock said:


> Greetings fellow forumites!
> 
> I'm looking for a DDR4 kit that will allow me to run my 12900K in gear one, meaning 2000MHz double data rate.
> 
> ...



If your current kit name ends in -C (e.g. GTZNC) and is 16-19-19, you're getting the exact same thing if you buy that kit (Hynix CJR) and will probably go absolutely nowhere, both in terms of frequency (though doesn't matter for Gear 1) and timings.

Amongst 32GB G.skill kits specifically, look for the likes of:

3200 14-14-14
3600 16-16-16
3600 14-14-14
3800 14-16-16
4000 17-17-17
4000 17-18-18
4000 19-19-19
4266 19-19-19
4266 17-18-18
4400 18-19-19


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## mrthanhnguyen (Nov 27, 2021)

15th Warlock said:


> Thank you, from what I understand, Alder Lake's memory controller runs at 2000MHz, now, would you know if the kit I mentioned above is single or dual rank?
> 
> Thank you again for your response.


Your kit is 2x16 which is dual rank. Like I said not all ADL able to run gear 1 4000mhz. If u dont believe, just test it yourself.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 27, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> If your current kit name ends in -C (e.g. GTZNC) and is 16-19-19, you're getting the exact same thing if you buy that kit (Hynix CJR) and will probably go absolutely nowhere, both in terms of frequency (though doesn't matter for Gear 1) and timings.
> 
> Amongst 32GB G.skill kits specifically, look for the likes of:
> 
> ...



I'm new to this gear thing lol, so you're saying the kit I currently have could in theory run at gear 1 with my processor regardless of the frequency?

The kit in my original post doesn't have a C in its denomination, idk about my current kit, but I think it's Hynix like you said.



mrthanhnguyen said:


> Your kit is 2x16 which is dual rank. Like I said not all ADL able to run gear 1 4000mhz. If u dont believe, just test it yourself.



Oh I believe you, sorry if I sound like I lack any knowledge of this subject, I'm not really familiar with this Gear ratio deal, thank you for all your responses!


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## dgianstefani (Nov 27, 2021)

G skill have a 4000/14/32gb kit - get that.

Otherwise don't bother with trident Z and just get cheap hynix, the 4000/19kit isn't B die.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 27, 2021)

15th Warlock said:


> I'm new to this gear thing lol, so you're saying the kit I currently have could in theory run at gear 1 with my processor regardless of the frequency?
> 
> The kit in my original post doesn't have a C in its denomination, idk about my current kit, but I think it's Hynix like you said.
> 
> Oh I believe you, sorry if I sound like I lack any knowledge of this subject, I'm not really familiar with this Gear ratio deal, thank you for all your responses!



The C denotes Hynix but only at a few speeds where there's also a Bdie kit with the same tCL and otherwise identical padt number (ie. 3600CL16 Neo). But the kit you linked, 4000 18-22-22 is for sure going to be CJR.

I'm not saying you can run any speed. I'm saying that Bdie is the only choice if you're limited to 4000 or so and have to resort to tightening timings. Hynix loves freq and hates timings.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 27, 2021)

Thank you for your suggestions, do you guys recommend any kit in particular?

This whole single-dual rank / Bdie / gear ratio thing is making my head spin lmao, I wish I could just use the XMP profile and call it a day


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## Deleted member 202104 (Nov 27, 2021)

@15th Warlock

Here's a short blurb explaining Gear 1 and 2 on Alder Lake



> You are given the choice of two gear modes with Rocket Lake. Gear 1 will allow the memory controller to operate at the same frequency as the system's memory (known as a 1:1 ratio), allowing for the lowest latency possible. Gear 2, on the other hand, will cut the memory controller's speed in half (2:1 ratio), compared to the system's memory frequency allowing the memory controller to operate significantly higher frequency RAM.
> 
> However, because Gear 2 cuts the memory controller's clock speed in half, your memory latency gets penalized, so this mode is only beneficial for workloads that are very sensitive to memory bandwidth over memory latency, which is found mostly in professional applications. If you're a gamer or casual PC user, the lower latency with Gear 1 is the better choice.



The issue is that each CPUs memory controller is going to be different.  One may run Gear 1 at 4000, others may not.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 27, 2021)

weekendgeek said:


> @15th Warlock
> 
> Here's a short blurb explaining Gear 1 and 2 on Alder Lake
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! I'll make sure to read that post.

Edit: does anyone by any chance know what frequency the 12900K runs in gear 1? Thank you.


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## jallenlabs (Nov 27, 2021)

The sweet spot is DDR4 3600 CAS 16 which in some cases is faster than the fastest DDR5 in gaming.  Go figure.  You can find the article right here on this site.  I went with DDR4 3200 CAS 14 Samsung B die myself.  I should have no issue clocking it up if need be.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 28, 2021)

jallenlabs said:


> The sweet spot is DDR4 3600 CAS 16 which in some cases is faster than the fastest DDR5 in gaming.  Go figure.  You can find the article right here on this site.  I went with DDR4 3200 CAS 14 Samsung B die myself.  I should have no issue clocking it up if need be.


Thank you, that's the current rating of my memory kit, I don't think it's currently running at gear 1 though, not according to CPUZ.

Is there a way to know what type of die you'll find on any given kit before you purchase?

Thank you everyone for the tips, I almost jumped the gun on that other memory kit, I would've probably ended in the same spot I'm in right now, I'm glad I asked here before I made that mistake.


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## Selaya (Nov 28, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> If your current kit name ends in -C (e.g. GTZNC) and is 16-19-19, you're getting the exact same thing if you buy that kit (Hynix CJR) and will probably go absolutely nowhere, both in terms of frequency (though doesn't matter for Gear 1) and timings.
> 
> Amongst 32GB G.skill kits specifically, look for the likes of:
> 
> ...


look for timings. B-die usually has totally or almost flat timings. Other ICs have their signature too obv, but for (tight) timings B-die is probably the best. Prepare to pay up, tho.


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## jallenlabs (Nov 28, 2021)

https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 28, 2021)

jallenlabs said:


> https://benzhaomin.github.io/bdiefinder/





Selaya said:


> look for timings. B-die usually has totally or almost flat timings. Other ICs have their signature too obv, but for (tight) timings B-die is probably the best. Prepare to pay up, tho.


Thank you for the info, that explains the price difference between kits with same speed rating.


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## mrthanhnguyen (Nov 28, 2021)

jallenlabs said:


> The sweet spot is DDR4 3600 CAS 16 which in some cases is faster than the fastest DDR5 in gaming.  Go figure.  You can find the article right here on this site.  I went with DDR4 3200 CAS 14 Samsung B die myself.  I should have no issue clocking it up if need be.


Wrong there is no fastest ddr5 at the moment and there is a fastest ddr4 kit now. Ddr5 6600cl28 1t and ddr4 4300cl13 1t are extremely fast now.


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## ir_cow (Nov 28, 2021)

I have the ASUS Z690 TUF on hand. Can't get Gear-1 for dual-rank above 3600 to work or even boot.  I think there is still work to be done on the BIOS side of things. I wouldn't expect 2x16GB 4000 to boot either. Single-sided - DDR4-5000 is no problem 

I think it's best to stick to 3600 for now unless you really have the time to play around with the CPU voltages.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 28, 2021)

ir_cow said:


> I have the ASUS Z690 TUF on hand. Can't get Gear-1 for dual-rank above 3600 to work or even boot.  I think there is still work to be done on the BIOS side of things. I wouldn't expect 2x16GB 4000 to boot either. Single-sided - DDR4-5000 is no problem
> 
> I think it's best to stick to 3600 for now unless you really have the time to play around with the CPU voltages.


Thank you, yes, I'm still trying to figure put this whole gear ratio thing, for now, I'll stick to the kit I have, how did you get 3600 to work in gear 1?


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## ir_cow (Nov 28, 2021)

15th Warlock said:


> Thank you, yes, I'm still trying to figure put this whole gear ratio thing, for now, I'll stick to the kit I have, how did you get 3600 to work in gear 1?


I'll let other folk continue the never ending debate if a 1:1 ratio is beneficial outside of benchmarking. Depends on your prospective I think.

Anyways it has been about 2 weeks since I used DDR4 on Alder Lake. Forgive me if I'm wrong about my settings. I believe all I needed to do was  A few steps

1: Either use a XMP 3600 profile or manually set the frequency
2: Raise the VCCSA to 1.25
3: Set the ratio to 1:2
4: go into timings and set Command Rate to 2T
5: Save and boot
6: If it boots go back and set the ratio to 1:1
7: Continue tweaking the values and testing after each major change. If all goes well you should have dual-rank dimms running at 3600 1:1 Ratio and 1T.

I'll need to retest some memory configurations, but I don't remember being able to post above 3600 on the Alder Lake with dual-rank. It could be the MB holding it back. Not sure yet.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 28, 2021)

ir_cow said:


> I'll let other folk continue the never ending debate if a 1:1 ratio is beneficial outside of benchmarking. Depends on your prospective I think.
> 
> Anyways it has been about 2 weeks since I used DDR4 on Alder Lake. Forgive me if I'm wrong about my settings. I believe all I needed to do was  A few steps
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the step by step guide, I’ll try it as soon as I can an post the results, I will also check for any new bios updates for my mobo that may help with this endeavor.

Like you said, it might not be even that beneficial to run in gear 1, but it’s worth a try, thank you again!!


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## mrthanhnguyen (Nov 28, 2021)

15th Warlock said:


> Thank you so much for the step by step guide, I’ll try it as soon as I can an post the results, I will also check for any new bios updates for my mobo that may help with this endeavor.
> 
> Like you said, it might not be even that beneficial to run in gear 1, but it’s worth a try, thank you again!!


Gear 1 is better for gaming coz it has low latency.


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## ir_cow (Nov 28, 2021)

@15th Warlock You may be able to lower the System Agent down to 1.2V once all is said and done.

You can also try everything on auto, enable the XMP if you have 3600 memory. After it boots it would automatically be at gear 2 / 2T. Most do this for compatibility, but a few will change the values to the best it thinks is possible. Worth a shot.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 28, 2021)

ir_cow said:


> @15th Warlock You may be able to lower the System Agent down to 1.2V once all is said and done.
> 
> You can also try everything on auto, enable the XMP if you have 3600 memory. After it boots it would automatically be at gear 2 / 2T. Most do this for compatibility, but a few will change the values to the best it thinks is possible. Worth a shot.


Hi! I followed your instructions to the letter, and set the ratio to 1:2, booted fine, then went back into the bios, set the ratio to 1:1 and 1T using the XMP II profile.

My system booted with no issues, gotta add, before trying this I downloaded the the latest bios released a few days ago, 0707. Out of the box my board had bios 0404 installed in it, released back in August.

So far the system is running fine, no stability issues, how can I confirm I'm running in gear 1? 

Thank you again for your help!


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## ir_cow (Nov 28, 2021)

15th Warlock said:


> So far the system is running fine, no stability issues, how can I confirm I'm running in gear 1?



Easiest way inside windows is to download CPU-Z . Lots of other programs show this as well. The image I have shown isn't dual-rank kit, but you can see the Command Rate of 1T.

Since you have successfully booted I would just run MemTest64 to be sure it is all stable. Also lower the SA voltage to 1.2V and see if it works as well. No need to pump more voltage in if you don't need it.


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## Deleted member 202104 (Nov 28, 2021)

ir_cow said:


> Easiest way inside windows is to download CPU-Z . Lots of other programs show this as well. The image I have shown isn't dual-rank kit, but you can see the Command Rate of 1T.
> 
> Since you have successfully booted I would just run MemTest64 to be sure it is all stable. Also lower the SA voltage to 1.2V and see if it works as well. No need to pump more voltage in if you don't need it.
> 
> View attachment 226950



Doesn't this screenshot show Gear 2 as Memory Controller is running at half DRAM frequency?


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## ir_cow (Nov 29, 2021)

Indeed that memory was running at Gear 2 as you can see by the memory controller frequency being half of the memory. That is all gear 2 is. 2:1 ratio to the memory.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 29, 2021)

This are the settings I'm using in the BIOS with gear ratio 1:1, CR 1T, and XMP at 3600MHxlz CL16:


So far system has been stable, running multiple games, and hasn't crashed, I might do a more thorough test of the RAM as @ir_cow  recommended, to ensure it's 100% stable.

Idk if that's right, I know I entered the right settings for gear 1, but can you guys confirm from those screenshots that it is running how it's supposed to be? Thank you!

@weekendgeek my memory controller shows 1066MHz, that means it's not running at gear 1 right? I did set the ratio to 1:1 in the bios, idk what to make of that, this is so confusing....


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## Deleted member 202104 (Nov 29, 2021)

15th Warlock said:


> This are the settings I'm using in the BIOS with gear ratio 1:1, CR 1T, and XMP at 3600MHxlz CL16:
> View attachment 226979View attachment 226980View attachment 226981
> So far system has been stable, running multiple games, and hasn't crashed, I might do a more thorough test of the RAM as @ir_cow  recommended, to ensure it's 100% stable.
> 
> ...


It is running Gear 1 because you're memory is also running at 1066 (DDR4- 2133).  It looks like even though you have XMP set, it's not running at XMP speeds.

I'm not familiar with the Asus BIOS (even though I have the same board as you, it's still in the box), so maybe someone can chime in if there's anything Asus specific that needs to be done.


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## ir_cow (Nov 29, 2021)

Yep your memory defaulted to 2133. Did you see a fail overclock message after posting? Usually you will get one if it didnt take.

You can manually set the DRAM. frequency to 3600 in the bios. I would start with 3200 first and be prepared to clear the CMOS if you get stuck in boot loop.


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## Deleted member 202104 (Nov 29, 2021)

ir_cow said:


> Indeed that memory was running at Gear 2 as you can see by the memory controller frequency being half of the memory. That is all gear 2 is. 2:1 ratio to the memory.



Thanks - I was just clarifiying as the OP asked how to confirm they were running Gear 1 and you posted a screenshot of Gear 2 and mentioned a Cmd Rate of 1T.


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## ir_cow (Nov 29, 2021)

weekendgeek said:


> Thanks - I was just clarifiying as the OP asked how to confirm they were running Gear 1 and you posted a screenshot of Gear 2 and mentioned a Cmd Rate of 1T.


Hmm I thought the op was asking how to see 1T in CPU-Z


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 29, 2021)

ir_cow said:


> Yep your memory defaulted to 2133. Did you see a fail overclock message after posting? Usually you will get one if it didnt take.
> 
> You can manually set the DRAM. frequency to 3600 in the bios. I would start with 3200 first and be prepared to clear the CMOS if you get stuck in boot loop.


I figured something was off, idk why the BIOS shows it's running the XMP profile, even the BIOS screenshot up there shows the RAM speed to be 2133.


ir_cow said:


> Yep your memory defaulted to 2133. Did you see a fail overclock message after posting? Usually you will get one if it didnt take.
> 
> You can manually set the DRAM. frequency to 3600 in the bios. I would start with 3200 first and be prepared to clear the CMOS if you get stuck in boot loop.


I didn't see the message, I don't think the TV my PC is connected to refreshed high enough to show it any error messages.

Yes, I'll do that, I'll manually set the speed to 3200 with tighter timings like CL14, and then go up from there.

Thank you for your help!


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## phanbuey (Nov 29, 2021)

I have the team dark pro kit (3200 cl14 B-die), that can do 4000 G1 @ 17-18-18-35 with 4 sticks
I have them at these settings now since it's actually a bit faster/ smoother:  3900 CL 16-17-17-33


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 29, 2021)

This is my kit running at 1:1, 3200MHz, CL16, 1.3V, CR 1T

Sorry for the crappy screenshot, I was using my phone.

At one point the NB frequency jumped to 4800MHz, is that normal?

I think I can lower the timings or increase the speed if I give more juice to this kit, I might try that later.


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## phanbuey (Nov 29, 2021)

15th Warlock said:


> This is my kit running at 1:1, 3200MHz, CL16, 1.3V, CR 1T
> View attachment 227015
> Sorry for the crappy screenshot, I was using my phone.
> 
> ...



I've just spent like 2 weeks fiddling with every timing under the sun so would love to help if you have questions.

That kit can for sure higher with some volts. 

You could probably keep timings the same (for now), push to 1.45v Dram, and start pushing the mhz in gear 1 up until it's unstable, add some SA mv and then keep pushing up.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 29, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> I've just spent like 2 weeks fiddling with every timing under the sun so would love to help if you have questions.
> 
> That kit can for sure higher with some volts.
> 
> You could probably keep timings the same (for now), push to 1.45v Dram, and start pushing the mhz in gear 1 up until it's unstable, add some SA mv and then keep pushing up.


Thank you for offering your help! Yes, this is all very complex and almost fascinating, haven't messed with RAM timings and voltages in a long time.

I'll try just that, see how fast this kit can go at this settings and play with he voltage a bit, I'll do that as soon as I get back home.

What voltage do you have your kit set to right now if I may ask?


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## phanbuey (Nov 29, 2021)

15th Warlock said:


> Thank you for offering your help! Yes, this is all very complex and almost fascinating, haven't messed with RAM timings and voltages in a long time.
> 
> I'll try just that, see how fast this kit can go at this settings and play with he voltage a bit, I'll do that as soon as I get back home.
> 
> What voltage do you have your kit set to right now of I may ask?



I have been running at 1.46v - 1.47v  for about 3 years now on this kit across (7820x, 8700k, 10850k and now 12600k) lol.

1.45v seems to be the high safe 24/7 voltage, and most kits usually scale well up to that.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 29, 2021)

phanbuey said:


> I have been running at 1.46v - 1.47v  for about 3 years now on this kit across (7820x, 8700k, 10850k and now 12600k) lol.
> 
> 1.45v seems to be the high safe 24/7 voltage, and most kits usually scale well up to that.


That's very encouraging, wow that is a good kit you have there, it has served you well!

Thank god for Alder Lake's backwards compatibility with DDR4 eh?

I've never pushed this kit beyond 1.35v but I feel more encouraged to do that after reading your post.

I'm sure my kit is not nearly as good as yours, but I'm also sure I can still squeeze a bit more performance from it, I'm so glad I asked you guys about gear ratios!

I almost made the mistake of buying a new kit that wouldn't have made any difference, now I have a much better understanding of how memory works with these new CPUs, thank you everyone who has responded to this thread


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## ir_cow (Nov 29, 2021)

Max DRAM depends solely on the ICs. Samsung-B die can do 1.5v 24/7. 1.8v if your really pushing things and don't care about sudden death. But Samsung C-Die will straight up die with 1.45v.

Knowing what memory IC you have is important.


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## phanbuey (Nov 29, 2021)

ir_cow said:


> Max DRAM depends solely on the ICs. Samsung-B die can do 1.5v 24/7. 1.8v if your really pushing things and don't care about sudden death. But Samsung C-Die will straight up die with 1.45v.
> 
> Knowing what memory IC you have is important.



That's a great point. @15th Warlock can u double check who the maker is? I think that kit is Hynix DJR based on a quick google -- which means 1.45v is a good max value for daily use.

Thaiphoon Burner - Official Support Website (softnology.biz)

Intel 11th Gen Gear 1 Memory tuning Guide for B-Die, Rev E and CJR (11600K) - YouTube

^ this is a great video on gear 1 tuning, works pretty much the exact same way on alder lake, and has some tuning profiles for CJR.

MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper (github.com)

^ this is great for experimenting with timings, I find their safe/ tight / extreme examples to be spot on for my setup.


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## 15th Warlock (Nov 29, 2021)

ir_cow said:


> Max DRAM depends solely on the ICs. Samsung-B die can do 1.5v 24/7. 1.8v if your really pushing things and don't care about sudden death. But Samsung C-Die will straight up die with 1.45v.
> 
> Knowing what memory IC you have is important.


Yes, thank you for bringing that up, I was thinking to go slowly from 1.3v to 1.35v which this kit is rated to work at, as I increase the speed, I bet if I run 1.45v from the get go through this kit it'll straight up fry it 


phanbuey said:


> That's a great point. @15th Warlock can u double check who the maker is... I think that kit is Hynix DJR based on a quick google.


Bingo! from what CPUZ reports, this kit has Hynix modules in it, seems like Samsung is the way to go huh?

I'll let you guys know how this Hynix modules perform in gear 1 with Alder Lake at higher than 3200MHz


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## phanbuey (Nov 29, 2021)

Sample CJR G1 tune from that video I linked -- this is at 1.45v, pushed to 3333mhz.  I would ignore that TREFI value for now, touch that last...  I usually don't go past like 24K with that one (higher is tighter in this case - time between refreshes).


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## ir_cow (Nov 29, 2021)

Hynix DJR is good for 1.6v daily. Thats what all the 5000 kits are. I was told by a memory rep (can't say who) that 1.7 is fine as well for those. But always use caution when going over the voltage of the kit. Its not covered by warranty. Not that they can tell honestly.


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## mrthanhnguyen (Nov 29, 2021)

Just put a fan or install a waterblock on it if u have custom loop. 1.5v dimm, 1.25v io/sa then go up your ram frequency.


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## fluxc0d3r (Dec 4, 2021)

I was able to get my Addlink 3600 CL18 ram down to CL16 timings without changing any memory voltages on my Asus Z690 board. I'm waiting for my Samsung B-die memory kit to arrive today for comparison.

Aida64 Extreme benchmark for my Addlink 3600 at XMP II settings:

Read: 56474 MB/s
Write: 52957 MB/s
Copy: 53200 MB/s

Latency: 60.9 ns


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