# HDMI for audio only - force a super low resolution?



## Mussels (Nov 9, 2016)

My current setup is Geforce 970 -> 4K monitor, with a second HDMI cable going from my intel onboard to my 5.1 receiver.

Technically i can do this from the nvidia card, but this works out easier as the Nvidia card isnt forced into a higher power state.

This does require windows to be in 'extended' mode (4K prevents me doing duplicate without a new receiver) and therefore i have a second 800x600 monitor hanging around, just waiting to steal my cursor or desktop icons where i cannot see them.

It occured to me forcing that virtual monitor to a very low resolution would resolve that problem and allow me to properly run HDMI audio without messing anything up - but windows wont let me go below 800x600

Does anyone know how i could go about forcing a really low res video signal like 1x1, without breaking the audio or making it difficult to get video output back later?


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## slozomby (Nov 9, 2016)

you can disable the display portion in the NVidia control panel in extended mode. this should still let you use it for audio under the sound manager control panel.


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## Caring1 (Nov 9, 2016)

Doesn't your Motherboard have Optical Audio Spdif?

Edit: You can also pick up an audio splitter fairly cheap, that has HDMI pass through.


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## Mussels (Nov 9, 2016)

Caring1 said:


> Doesn't your Motherboard have Optical Audio Spdif?



If i wanted crippled audio, i'd buy apple earpods.



slozomby said:


> you can disable the display portion in the NVidia control panel in extended mode. this should still let you use it for audio under the sound manager control panel.




teach me, oh wise one. I can't seem to find options to do that, without the audio going away.

This is the best i can get, with a 640x480 extension in the top left corner


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## slozomby (Nov 9, 2016)

my bad. I just moved my receiver into the office to try this on the same card. I could have sworn it let me do this in the past.

you should be able to prevent it from stealing your cursors by duplicating the desktop rather than extending it. 

per your picture both hdmi are on the NVidia card. I though you had one as the onboard and one as the NVidia card.


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## Mussels (Nov 9, 2016)

slozomby said:


> my bad. I just moved my receiver into the office to try this on the same card. I could have sworn it let me do this in the past.
> 
> you should be able to prevent it from stealing your cursors by duplicating the desktop rather than extending it.
> 
> per your picture both hdmi are on the NVidia card. I though you had one as the onboard and one as the NVidia card.



duplicate cant work because my main screen is 4K, and my receiver is 1080p - unless they're a perfect match you cant duplicate.


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## Brusfantomet (Nov 9, 2016)

Mussels said:


> duplicate cant work because my main screen is 4K, and my receiver is 1080p - unless they're a perfect match you cant duplicate.


in windows 10 you can duplicate with different resolutions. Had the same trubble as you (my screen was 2560 x 1600 but otherwise the same) after updating to windows 10 it worked. It is one of the new features of WDDM 2.0


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 9, 2016)

I love HDMI in my home theater setup. I hate HDMI with my computers. The only reason we have HDMI with our computers is the monitor/TV industry didn't want to deal with both DVI and HDMI connector support - so they shoved HDMI down on us even though the vast majority of users feed the audio from our sound cards (integrated or add-on) to our speakers and not to those lousy, tinny speakers integrated into monitors.

Since audio is embedded in the blanking intervals of HDMI video, I don't see how you can disable video completely. I believe there is also an issue where if you drop the resolution below 720p, multi-channel hi-rez audio cannot be sent at all - just 2-channel (stereo).

Have you thought about something like this?


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## Vayra86 (Nov 9, 2016)

Go optical and never look back. It's a 100% lossless PCM stream, let your receiver do whatever it wants with it. I don't see why optical 'would cripple' your output at all. It definitely beats analog.

Keep it simple... Sound isn't rocket science. Just a lossless throughput is all you need, and then all that matters is decent speakers coupled with decent receiver.


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## Brusfantomet (Nov 9, 2016)

Vayra86 said:


> Go optical and never look back. It's a 100% lossless PCM stream, let your receiver do whatever it wants with it. I don't see why optical 'would cripple' your output at all. It definitely beats analog.
> 
> Keep it simple... Sound isn't rocket science. Just a lossless throughput is all you need, and then all that matters is decent speakers coupled with decent receiver.


Optical 5.1 is not PCM streams, both DTS and DD uses compression to get 6 channels through somersetting designed for 2. HDMI supports 7.1 PCM streams.

Also, if you want 5.1 from games though optical your sound card must support DTS or DD compression in the fly, for DTS this is called "DTS connect", and most sound cards lack the feature.

But, as i already have written, since you are using Windows 10 you have the possibility to duplicated screens with different resolutions.


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## Vayra86 (Nov 9, 2016)

Brusfantomet said:


> Optical 5.1 is not PCM streams, both DTS and DD uses compression to get 6 channels through somersetting designed for 2. HDMI supports 7.1 PCM streams.
> 
> Also, if you want 5.1 from games though optical your sound card must support DTS or DD compression in the fly, for DTS this is called "DTS connect", and most sound cards lack the feature.
> 
> But, as i already have written, since you are using Windows 10 you have the possibility to duplicated screens with different resolutions.



Ah yes, correct about 5.1. I just use linear stereo PCM on it and let my receiver do five channel stereo conversion, and I can hardly distinguish it from 'true' surround actually. Works a treat, mostly for music because you can go back to 2 ch stereo at any time by just the press of a button. And it definitely sounds better for music if you have 2 ch stereo output instead of a 5.1 output.

Pros and cons, but most of all, its not correct that optical is lossy or 'crippling audio'.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 9, 2016)

Vayra86 said:


> Go optical and never look back.


I totally disagree. Optical is certainly better than analog but HDMI can pass higher resolution audio including formats used by Blu-Ray such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio which CANNOT be passed over optical.

And sorry, but if you can "hardly distinguish" simulated surround sound from discrete surround sound then you either have lousy speakers or much poorer hearing than me - and I'm pushing 65 years old and worked on or next to a USAF flightline for 24+ years - not to mention loud rock! 

In NO WAY is optical a poor solution and it is doubtful anyone will actually hear the difference - except with dedicated, concentrated music-only listening. That is, when using the computer or watching a video (where your attention is split between sight and sound), most content will sound great. Some discrete directional sounds (from back to front, for example) may sound less defined however, but still good.


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## Brusfantomet (Nov 9, 2016)

I agree that there is no noticeable difference between DTS and 6 channel PCM.

Listening to music when running 5.1 PCM through HDMI leaves me with sound only from the front speakers at least.


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## Vayra86 (Nov 9, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> I totally disagree. Optical is certainly better than analog but HDMI can pass higher resolution audio including formats used by Blu-Ray such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio which CANNOT be passed over optical.
> 
> And sorry, but if you can "hardly distinguish" simulated surround sound from discrete surround sound then you either have lousy speakers or much poorer hearing than me - and I'm pushing 65 years old and worked on or next to a USAF flightline for 24+ years - not to mention loud rock!
> 
> In NO WAY is optical a poor solution and it is doubtful anyone will actually hear the difference - except with dedicated, concentrated music-only listening. That is, when using the computer or watching a video (where your attention is split between sight and sound), most content will sound great. Some discrete directional sounds (from back to front, for example) may sound less defined however, but still good.



My hearing is quite fine, but still, apart from a very small selection of highly positional effects, the difference between 5ch stereo surround with 2ch audio is very, very small. And my experience is that while gaming after a few minutes all that matters is the general direction of sound, the accuracy of discrete is pretty much lost after you get into the game. I've ran discrete surround AND 5 ch stereo surround on the same PC, same set of speakers and same receiver and eventually came down to just sticking to this solution. I can still hear that helicopter going from back-left to front-right speakers for example. I can hear bullet casings fall behind me. All just with simulated 'wide' stereo. And that's across over 10 years of listening on this same setup, in different rooms of different sizes.

While technically you are fully correct, in the end the actual noticeable difference is extremely minimal. But its personal too. I prefer focusing my setup on stereo music above discrete surround, because music across 5.1 is dreadful. And it most definitely beats running a second monitor just to push audio across HDMI proper.

FYI, my setup is an AVR137 + HKTS speakers from Harman Kardon (no PC speaker junk here)


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## nomdeplume (Nov 9, 2016)

I suspect you are aware of not going about this in the ideal manner.  HDMI is a way to output video that carries sound.  Your receiver adds degradation and complication, by diverting it from a direct path, which it attempts to digitally correct and amplify while matching clocks with the video signal.  Splitting audio out of the stream using a converter will be much worse. 

Optical/spdif is at least audio only.  A high quality audio file being output through an audio card into a receiver isn't going to produce outstanding results either.  Not even sure you have an audio card anyways.

The actual solution is really simple since you're going through a receiver.  3.5mm stereo plug to RCA cable.  You should have no problem choosing a channel to output sound on.


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## Brusfantomet (Nov 9, 2016)

nomdeplume said:


> I suspect you are aware of not going about this in the ideal manner.  HDMI is a way to output video that carries sound.  Your receiver adds degradation and complication, by diverting it from a direct path, which it attempts to digitally correct and amplify while matching clocks with the video signal.  Splitting audio out of the stream using a converter will be much worse.
> 
> Optical/spdif is at least audio only.  A high quality audio file being output through an audio card into a receiver isn't going to produce outstanding results either.  Not even sure you have an audio card anyways.
> 
> The actual solution is really simple since you're going through a receiver.  3.5mm stereo plug to RCA cable.  You should have no problem choosing a channel to output sound on.




Actually, using spdif the signal is encoded as PCM, the same way its encoded over HDMI, but HDMI can carry more channels. Using an analogue output to get 5.1 is possible. Also, when using PCM digital output the audio card (in the case of using the HDMI output on the GPU the GPU becomes the audio card) the card itself does minimal if at all any processing on the signal. Jumping to analogue output is much worse than having the receiver do the D\A conversion unless he has a very good audio card.


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## Vayra86 (Nov 9, 2016)

Yeah I would also stay far, far away from the 3.5mm jack solution because those cables, even the good ones, are very prone to signal loss or temporary signal loss and damage to the cable. The slightest movement of the jack can cause static too, especially as components age a bit. Been there done that with my laptop(s) but the sound quality is questionable too compared to optical - the analog signal strength is also highly dependant on the audio chip on the board, which isn't really the case with digital.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 9, 2016)

Vayra86 said:


> but still, apart from a very small selection of highly positional effects, the difference between 5ch stereo surround with 2ch audio is very, very small.


Well, this is where are in total disagreement. For simple music content, I do agree. But for any movie recorded with "discrete" surround sound or any game coded with "discrete" surround sound content, it is all about the positional effects and you absolutely can discern the difference between discrete surround sound and simulated surround sound.

I don't know what HKTS speakers you are referring to but I note many discerning listeners I know spend $1000 (or many times more) for just one speaker, not an entire 5.1 system. I note audiophile electronics was my first love before computers as a technician. My budget and family obligations never allowed me to indulge in the gear I wanted, but, for example, my sub alone cost more than most people budget for audio gear. And while my hearing is not that of an 18 year old, I can sure tell where sound is coming from. Even with my decent (but not great) Onkyo it is very easy to tell simulated from discrete.

As for using a 3.5mm stereo plug, that is totally analog and the least desirable option you could ever choose - if fidelity is a concern that is - except maybe with earbuds.


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## Vayra86 (Nov 9, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> Well, this is where are in total disagreement. For simple music content, I do agree. But for any movie recorded with "discrete" surround sound or any game coded with "discrete" surround sound content, it is all about the positional effects and you absolutely can discern the difference between discrete surround sound and simulated surround sound.
> 
> I don't know what HKTS speakers you are referring to but I note many discerning listeners I know spend $1000 (or many times more) for just one speaker, not an entire 5.1 system. I note audiophile electronics was my first love before computers as a technician. My budget and family obligations never allowed me to indulge in the gear I wanted, but, for example, my sub alone cost more than most people budget for audio gear. And while my hearing is not that of an 18 year old, I can sure tell where sound is coming from. Even with my decent (but not great) Onkyo it is very easy to tell simulated from discrete.
> 
> As for using a 3.5mm stereo plug, that is totally analog and the least desirable option you could ever choose - if fidelity is a concern that is - except maybe with earbuds.



Ah, we enter the realm of audiophiles with your listening preferences I see. I'll state right away, I'm not that guy  I shoot a bit lower with my audio. For the living room, we got ourselves a set of Teufel Ultima 40 MK2's. I really don't feel the need to spend more on my audio and the differences become very marginal in the higher price segments. With regards to OP, and the fact we're talking about multichannel, that also doesn't strike me as audiophile.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 9, 2016)

Yeah, but fidelity (that is, the faithful reproduction of the audio) and positional effects are two different things. You can still locate the exact source of a sound from a cheap rear speaker in a multi-speaker set up if the signal source is from a discrete source - that is, not a simulated rear signal simulated from a 2-channel (stereo) source. That is the point of disagreement we have, noting where you said,


Vayra86 said:


> the difference between 5ch stereo surround with 2ch audio is very, very small.


But, that is for another discussion as I don't want to derail this thread further.


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## nomdeplume (Nov 9, 2016)

To be clear we are talking about computer gaming not Class A amps or $50K stacks in a heavily carpeted room.  Take into account the level of audio requirements and equipment.

The $10 fix I suggested was independent of the quality of his receiver for the task.  Actually listen to the OP and you'll see the focus of his question wasn't sort out my entire audio setup and here's a budget.  It was "Make my receiver work in a way that doesn't inherently make me hate using my computer.  HDMI is technically capable but poorly suited for the task."  Run what ya brung when good enough is good enough!



If his headphone port is so worn out and incapable of producing sound and his computer so incapable of producing a signal and to top it off the cord is so prone to breaking, it just wouldn't work at all would it?  Or at least only marginally better than sticking a spdif cable somewhere into the ass end of his GPU.


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## Grings (Nov 9, 2016)

Is this with a monitor or with the tv listed in your specs?

If its with the tv have you tried plugging the computer into 1 hdmi on the tv, the amp into another and send the audio to the amp via hdmi-arc (audio return channel)?


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## Mussels (Nov 9, 2016)

Brusfantomet said:


> in windows 10 you can duplicate with different resolutions. Had the same trubble as you (my screen was 2560 x 1600 but otherwise the same) after updating to windows 10 it worked. It is one of the new features of WDDM 2.0



huh, that actually did work. it pushed me to 1080p but let me change back to 4K.

cant be done if refresh rates are different, but in this case it worked out.




Grings said:


> Is this with a monitor or with the tv listed in your specs?
> 
> If its with the tv have you tried plugging the computer into 1 hdmi on the tv, the amp into another and send the audio to the amp via hdmi-arc (audio return channel)?


My receiver doesnt support ARC - but brusfantomet above posted an unlikely solution.


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## Brusfantomet (Nov 10, 2016)

Mussels said:


> huh, that actually did work. it pushed me to 1080p but let me change back to 4K.
> 
> cant be done if refresh rates are different, but in this case it worked out.



That is good, it probably does not work with different Hz monitors as you stated, but for running the same picture to the same monitor its a OK solution, since the Hz will be the same.


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## hat (Nov 12, 2016)

Wow, and here I thought it would be simple to send audio only through HDMI. One HDMI (or whatever) to the monitor, one HDMI to the receiver... that doesn't work?


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## Mussels (Nov 12, 2016)

hat said:


> Wow, and here I thought it would be simple to send audio only through HDMI. One HDMI (or whatever) to the monitor, one HDMI to the receiver... that doesn't work?



apparently HDMI requires a video signal with HDCP or it gets narky.

AMD and intel have no fix, but Nvidia have this hidden option as discussed a few posts up that works fine.


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## hat (Nov 12, 2016)

Mussels said:


> apparently HDMI requires a video signal with HDCP or it gets narky.
> 
> AMD and intel have no fix, but Nvidia have this hidden option as discussed a few posts up that works fine.



Wow, that's really crummy. I guess the right way to do it would be to make sure you get a receiver that matches video capabilities of your screen. HMDI from video card to reciever for video and audio, then HDMI out to your screen. That sounds pretty expensive. HDCP can go to hell!


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## Grings (Nov 12, 2016)

Easier said than done, due to the expense of updating stuff every 2 years or so

I'm in a similar predicament, i have a 2011 (i think) tv with no hdmi arc to send audio to the receiver, which dosent support 4k so im boned again when i upgrade the tv, im just hoping the new 4k tv i get can send audio from the pc's hdmi to the receiver


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## Mussels (Nov 12, 2016)

if you have an ARC TV and ARC receiver you'd be ok, but my 1080p, 3D capable receiver doesnt support that either.

I guess it'll be less of an issue in the future thanks to ARC, but a lot of people will be stuck in the same boat as me here.


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## hat (Nov 13, 2016)

What happens when you want to use HDMI audio with your PC when you got a monitor that doesn't have that? Or doesn't even have HDMI for that matter? Just for the sake of argument... assume you want to use that kickass sound system with your computer and a VGA monitor...


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## Mussels (Nov 13, 2016)

hat said:


> What happens when you want to use HDMI audio with your PC when you got a monitor that doesn't have that? Or doesn't even have HDMI for that matter? Just for the sake of argument... assume you want to use that kickass sound system with your computer and a VGA monitor...



duplicate or extend are your only options. both have limitations.


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## hat (Nov 13, 2016)

Okay... how about a sneaky trick? Remember back in the early days of F@H when people were stuffing their machines full of video cards which wouldn't normally get used? They were using modified DVI-VGA adapters to fake a monitor and allow the card to actually be used. Could such a thing work for HDMI?


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## Brusfantomet (Nov 13, 2016)

hat said:


> Okay... how about a sneaky trick? Remember back in the early days of F@H when people were stuffing their machines full of video cards which wouldn't normally get used? They were using modified DVI-VGA adapters to fake a monitor and allow the card to actually be used. Could such a thing work for HDMI?


Highly unlikely, DVI and HDMI are the same signals (hence passive DVI-HDMI converters) the DVI port usually also has the analogue signals (these ports a caled DVI-I) so to facilitate a passive DVI-VGA adapter, the modified adapters probably used a resistor to trick the card to output the screen signal.

Since the audio is baked into the blanking part of the visual signal the card would need to be tricked into outputting a screen on the port in question, DHCP comes into the equation here, it will make this much more difficult.

all in all i think its easier to have the HDMI output to the computer screen and duplicate the image.


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## hat (Nov 13, 2016)

Yes, they did have resistor(s).

But what if you don't have a second screen?


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## Brusfantomet (Nov 13, 2016)

use the same screen with multiple inputs, and if your screen only has one digital input you are kind of screwed.


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## slozomby (Nov 13, 2016)

hat said:


> Okay... how about a sneaky trick? Remember back in the early days of F@H when people were stuffing their machines full of video cards which wouldn't normally get used? They were using modified DVI-VGA adapters to fake a monitor and allow the card to actually be used. Could such a thing work for HDMI?



the headless adapters can fake a monitors response. but I haven't seen any that will pass the audio portion of the signal out to another device.

there are hdmi audio extractors out there. but the ones I've looked at drop to stereo/optical out


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## Mussels (Nov 14, 2016)

hat said:


> Yes, they did have resistor(s).
> 
> But what if you don't have a second screen?



your receiver shows as a second screen, even with no monitor attached to it.


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## hat (Nov 14, 2016)

slozomby said:


> the headless adapters can fake a monitors response. but I haven't seen any that will pass the audio portion of the signal out to another device.
> 
> there are hdmi audio extractors out there. but the ones I've looked at drop to stereo/optical out



Looks like you may as well use a simple analog connection then, or SPDIF.



Mussels said:


> your receiver shows as a second screen, even with no monitor attached to it.



So yeah... HDMI into the receiver and back out the HDMI out to the monitor then is the "right" way to do it, then... Sounds really costly.


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## slozomby (Nov 14, 2016)

hat said:


> So yeah... HDMI into the receiver and back out the HDMI out to the monitor then is the "right" way to do it, then... Sounds really costly.


that's the normal way. however if your receiver only supports 1080p and the monitor is 1440 or 4k you run into the problem this thread is about.


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## hat (Nov 14, 2016)

What about 120/144hz? Do receivers affect refresh rate too?


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## slozomby (Nov 14, 2016)

hat said:


> What about 120/144hz? Do receivers affect refresh rate too?


I'm sure they do as they show up as a monitor in windows. so if you were using a 144hz monitor behind a hdmi receiver it will likely only shows as a 60hz monitor.

edit: since pretty much all receivers are built for Home Theater where 60hz is the standard.


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## Mussels (Nov 14, 2016)

hat said:


> What about 120/144hz? Do receivers affect refresh rate too?



indeed they do, you basically get 1080p 60Hz or 4K 30/60hz.

The only way to work properly i guess is a modern TV and receiver with ARC, where the TV has a HDMI 'out' for audio purposes. (and good luck finding a monitor with that, instead of running a TV)


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## nomdeplume (Nov 14, 2016)

I did some digging into HDMI audio.  Short answer is it doesn't work great as a direct line source carrying video along for the ride.  Instead say you fed audio only into a passive preamp with a USB/spdif/coax.  HDMI works great between it and the receiver.  

Great if your workaround works with the equipment you have and some ingenuity.  The need for a box in between is equally hard to accept.  You do get a volume control and source switching but we're talking phonograph era tech updated to use digital cords.


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## Mussels (Nov 14, 2016)

SPDIF etc do not work for PC gaming. You have a dozen more hoops to jump through to get that working at greatly reduced quality.


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## Batou1986 (Nov 14, 2016)

Mussels said:


> SPDIF etc do not work for PC gaming. You have a dozen more hoops to jump through to get that working at greatly reduced quality.


Yep every game works with 5.1 through HDMI or 3 x 3.5mm analog, nogo with SPDIF and even when I could get DD working it sounded flat compared to analog direct or HDMI.


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## Mussels (Nov 14, 2016)

if i could get analog outputs -> HDMI input for the receiver that'd be just great.

I guess one day i'll need an ARC receiver to sort this crap out.


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## Mussels (Nov 14, 2016)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-HDMI...997251?hash=item3d1ed0acc3:g:pC8AAOSwgY9Xed2z

apparently devices like this are a thing, that would let me 'upgrade' my receiver to support ARC...


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## hat (Nov 14, 2016)

I really wouldn't be able to complain if they had receivers that would support 144hz 4k. If you have a 144hz 4k monitor, how are you supposed to connect that kickass sound system to your computer? Have a generic second dummy monitor? Naw dude, dude naw.


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## cadaveca (Nov 14, 2016)

Mussels said:


> SPDIF etc do not work for PC gaming. You have a dozen more hoops to jump through to get that working at greatly reduced quality.


If you have ASUS D2X, it does, but this is one of those rare cards that does encoding on the fly. It will even convert DTS to DD5.1/7.1 or vice versa, but as Bill mentioned earlier, won't do DD TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio.



Mussels said:


> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-HDMI-ARC-Adapter-to-HDMI-Optical-Toslink-Audio-Converter-4K-1080P-CEC-OK-/262509997251?hash=item3d1ed0acc3:gC8AAOSwgY9Xed2z
> 
> apparently devices like this are a thing, that would let me 'upgrade' my receiver to support ARC...



I have a similar device for this since my Dell WFP3008, which does have ARC, only outputs 2-CH. Sadly, the device I bought also only does 2 CH. 

I have a relatively high-end Yamaha 7.1 HT amp connected to my gaming PC via SPDIF now, since it doesn't have HDMI. The number of games that work in 5.1 with it are very few, but some just work fine.


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## Mussels (Nov 14, 2016)

googlerised it: ARC is garbage. Its basically coax SPDIF over two unused pins on the HDMI cable, and not true HDMI audio.

That means stereo sound, with DD/DTS 5.1 from pre-encoded material. Worthless. Makes me wonder what the use of a smart TV is, when you cant get proper sound out of any built in apps...


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## Caring1 (Nov 14, 2016)

Mussels said:


> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-HDMI...997251?hash=item3d1ed0acc3:g:pC8AAOSwgY9Xed2z
> 
> apparently devices like this are a thing, that would let me 'upgrade' my receiver to support ARC...


I bought one about a week ago for the PS3, so I could do HDMI pass through and split the sound for a headphone output.


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## Mussels (Nov 14, 2016)

Caring1 said:


> I bought one about a week ago for the PS3, so I could do HDMI pass through and split the sound for a headphone output.



i already have one that splits to SPDIF, i thought it'd help with ARC... but apparently not. See my newer posts in the thread, its just coax SPDIF over unused pins, so its worthless.


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## Ferrum Master (Nov 14, 2016)

I wonder if you could get Auzentech Home Theater HD or xonar HDAV on your hands. Basically you need that silicon image controller and how it acts without display.

After reading... This looks like the only option.

You will need a HDMI dummy plug or whatever a spare DVD player into the card to kick in and layer any audio on it. There are problems with HDCP...but well...


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## Mussels (Nov 14, 2016)

Ferrum Master said:


> I wonder if you could get Auzentech Home Theater HD or xonar HDAV on your hands. Basically you need that silicon image controller and how it acts without display.



someone needs to make a USB HDMI soundcard.


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## Ferrum Master (Nov 14, 2016)

Mussels said:


> someone needs to make a USB HDMI soundcard.



USB2 is not enough for uncompressed multichanel. USB3 devices are buggy and still yet to be seen. 

It is all so screwed up really. I actually still use and will use fully analog route... less headaches.


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## Mussels (Nov 28, 2016)

ok i ran into problems preventing the 'duplicate with mis-matched resolutions' from working - basically, it breaks some games ability to see what resolutions are supported.

Killing floor 2 and overwatch only showed 1080p as the maximum supported resolution, and other games (like rimworld) would work at 1080p or 4K, with no in-between (1440p was missing)



I've ghettod up 3x 3.5mm stereo to 6x RCA and testing out analog inputs now out of desperation.


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## nomdeplume (Nov 29, 2016)

LOL, any harbor in a storm.  Honestly I commend your determination to keep working toward a solution with your current equipment.


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## Mussels (Nov 30, 2016)

shits me to tears that there is a dozen workarounds, but no solution other than 'spend heaps of money'

why dont nvidia, AMD or intel have an 'audio only' option what sends out a fake signal?


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## FR@NK (Nov 30, 2016)

I meant to post this earlier but I thought you had this issue fixed already.

This is my setup:







My receiver only supports 1080p yet my ATI card will let me use duplicate mode and send a 1440p signal to the receiver. I'm not even sure how it is sending a 1440p signal over HDMI 1.4 but I get 8 channel PCM audio.


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## Mussels (Nov 30, 2016)

FR@NK said:


> I meant to post this earlier but I thought you had this issue fixed already.
> 
> This is my setup:
> 
> ...



i can do that, but it has two bugs:

1. with 4K + 1080p, i lose 1440p as a resolution (needed for some games, clear on this TV)
2. Some games only see the 'lower res' monitor as native (killing floor 2, overwatch. DX11 thing?)


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## hat (Nov 30, 2016)

What does HDCP protect against anyway? I can imagine plenty of pirated content being piped over HDCP compliant systems...


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## FR@NK (Nov 30, 2016)

Mussels said:


> 1. with 4K + 1080p, i lose 1440p as a resolution (needed for some games, clear on this TV)



I'm not using "duplicate with mis-matched resolutions", I'm sending my native resolution to the receiver, not a 1080p signal. I dont have a 4K screen to test if it would work at higher resolutions but it works perfectly @1440p. 

What happens if you try to send a 4k signal to your receiver? 

Windows will let me send a 4k signal: 






I'm not sure how this even works since the receiver and the video card is only HDMI 1.4 which is 1080p max resolution. But it looks like it will work even if I get a 4k screen.


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## Mussels (Nov 30, 2016)

ah i tried that yesterday actually, and the receiver loses the audio signal for some reason.

it WILL accept a 4K input, but stops sending out the audio. the second i disconnect the HDMI cable between the TV and the receiver it drops back to 1080p, and the audio instantly returns (same thing if i drop the res to 1080p)


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## hat (Dec 15, 2016)

This is really bugging me. I wish we could just use HDMI audio. I've started using optical audio, and it's really nice, but being limited to 2 channel uncompressed is really crappy. Not for me, because I am only using stereo... but that HDMI 7.1 uncompressed sounds really nice... but needing to run the audio back out of the receiver into the monitor is really grinding my gears. Why can't I just pipe HDMI audio to the receiver and be done with it? I loathe copy protection! They don't even make it possible to jump through this hurdle for some. Who builds a kickass gaming rig with HDMI audio and a 60hz monitor? Why no 120/144hz support?

...
OR, why can't they update optical audio? In my mind, albeit of limited understanding, optical should far surpass HDMI. HDMI by nature uses electrical signals, optical uses light. We've seen fiber optic far outclass electrical cable in internet infrastructure. Shouldn't TOSLINK, in theory, be capable of 7.1 uncompressed or better? Somebody needs to update the standard here...


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## FR@NK (Dec 16, 2016)

Well I figured out how I got this working on my system....my receiver output is set to virtual super resolution so I can set any resolution on the desktop and it will auto scale it to 1080p while letting other programs think it supports up to 4k.



hat said:


> Why can't I just pipe HDMI audio to the receiver and be done with it?



The video card drivers could be programmed to do this, they would just need to send a dummy video signal so everything would work correctly.


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## Mussels (Dec 16, 2016)

i contacted nvidia about that and got about 5 automated responses before someone said they'd pass it along - a dummy signal with the nvidia logo would make everyone quite happy.


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 16, 2016)

Mussels said:


> why dont nvidia, AMD or intel have an 'audio only' option what sends out a fake signal?


Because HDMI is a video standard first, audio second.


I think what you're doing is the best solution.  Thing is, I'd move the secondary from the top right to the lower left corner.  A lot of applications look for the top right display (0,0 pixel coordinates) so having it up there by itself can create problems.  If there's nothing happening on that virtual display, it's not going to draw much power beyond refreshing the screen.  To reduce that, turn the Hz down as low as it will go.

Firmware update for the TV might help:
https://www.samsung.com/au/support/model/UA40KU6000WXXY

I would say install the drivers for that TV but drivers apparently don't exist for it...however, there is this (make sure to select the PC option for the HDMI in you're using because it turns off the scalers)...
https://www.samsung.com/au/support/skp/faq/1049290

Also turn on "Game Mode" if you haven't already:
https://www.samsung.com/au/support/skp/faq/1049274


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## Mussels (Dec 16, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Because HDMI is a video standard first, audio second.
> 
> 
> I think what you're doing is the best solution.  Thing is, I'd move the secondary from the top right to the lower left corner.  A lot of applications look for the top right display (0,0 pixel coordinates) so having it up there by itself can create problems.  If there's nothing happening on that virtual display, it's not going to draw much power beyond refreshing the screen.  To reduce that, turn the Hz down as low as it will go.
> ...



1. I got analogue 5.1 working for now. Not perfect, but it solves all the issues.

2. Firmware update done

3. Game mode cant be used at the same time as HDR mode, game mode requires 4:2:2 colours and looks horrible - its useless.


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## Ferrum Master (Dec 16, 2016)

Oh boy. So many issues... 

The more things the more problems you have.


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## Monstieur (Sep 1, 2017)

There are several solutions for multi-channel audio with high refresh rate / G-SYNC / high resolution monitors.

1. Use analog cables from a sound card to a Gefen HD Pattern Signal Generator. This device takes a 7.1 analog input and embeds it in an internally generated HDMI output. You can perform bass management and room correction on the AVR.

2. Use analog cables from a sound card to the AVR. Marantz still has a 7.1 analog input on their SR series. You must enable bass management in the sound card since the AVR does not digitize the 7.1 analog input. You will not get room correction either.
If you want room correction, you must buy Dirac Live for PC. Bass management must come before room correction, so you must switch it off in the sound card and use Equalizer APO to apply bass management before Dirac Live instead. The chain would look like this: Equalizer APO (Bass Management) > Dirac Live > Sound Card.

3. Use a HDMI sound card like the Auzentech HomeTheatre HD. It requires a HDMI video input, but you can feed it a dummy signal from a VGA to HDMI adapter. These adapters permanently output a video signal even without connecting them to a VGA input, so there is no second display in Windows. I wouldn't recommend this anymore since the drivers are obsolete.

Duplicating the displays used to work fine in Windows 8, but since Windows 10 the desktop animations get capped to the refresh rate of the AVR. The primary display still runs at a high refresh rate and the frame rate in games is not limited. Only the Windows desktop animations are artificially capped at a lower frame rate. The mouse cursor still moves at the higher refresh rate. This makes the desktop experience feel like crap so I don't use it.

I used to use solution 2 until recently. I now use extended desktop with a Gefen HDMI Detective Plus. If you move the second screen to the corner, the mouse cursor cannot move to it at all even if you try. Even with dual monitors, Windows intelligently remembers that you want to keep the headless AVR enabled when you switch between monitors. Try it now if you haven't in a while. The Gefen HDMI Detective Plus is critical or it will keep forgetting the audio and display settings when rebooting the PC or power cycling the AVR. Without this thing it's unusable.


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