# Windows 10 is a bloated scourge. I just clean installed Win 8.1 OMG ITS SO FAST



## Space Lynx (Jun 14, 2020)

so i did the command prompt for offline .net 3.5 installer, I am using tinywall, i manually disabled windows updates everywhere, i did wsus offline for all updates, i used c cleaner and classic start to get win 8.1 setup right. ninite selective downloads also made things move fast as far as clean install times go.

this is the single greatest OS experience I have ever had. it is extremely smooth and fast. honestly you don't know how much win 10 is a bloated mess until you try this. there is simply no delay in anything in win 8.1 anymore. lets see a complete shut off to start screen is about 3x as fast as win 10 with the same hardware.  absolutely mind boggling.  all that telemetry boys!!! haha


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## DR4G00N (Jun 14, 2020)

Maybe just down to your config, I used Win 8 & 8.1 since the release preview and when I changed to 10 I didn't notice any speed difference.
Could just be my 7 year old budget SSD though.


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## Decryptor009 (Jun 14, 2020)

I run win 10 on a PNY CS900 120GB and the rest on a 1TB WD Blue M.2, everything is VERY snappy.

Boot. 6 seconds.
Shut down. 9 seconds.


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## Solaris17 (Jun 14, 2020)

Cool story dude


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## R-T-B (Jun 14, 2020)

I think it is indeed probably slowed by telemetry, but win10 also has some wddm improvements that help gaming.

Mixed bag really, glad you are happy.


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## biffzinker (Jun 14, 2020)

It could be your hardware setup. Mine is at the desktop in 15 seconds, some of that is waiting on memory training during POST caused by the Ryzen AGESA firmware.


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## Splinterdog (Jun 14, 2020)

I'm glad you're happy with your system too, but don't some games require Windows 10 x64 to run?


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## Decryptor009 (Jun 14, 2020)

Splinterdog said:


> I'm glad you're happy with your system too, but don't some games require Windows 10 x64 to run?


Yes, though we have no clue what the OP runs hardware wise.


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## xkm1948 (Jun 14, 2020)

Talking about being dramatic.

I remember I switched to Linux main 3 yrs ago and that was some of the cleanest feel ever


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## Octopuss (Jun 14, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> i used c cleaner


I stopped reading here.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 14, 2020)

Octopuss said:


> I stopped reading here.



c cleaner i use for startup programs, it has a lot more in depth ability to block certain startup processes not just executables that are beneficial.



Splinterdog said:


> I'm glad you're happy with your system too, but don't some games require Windows 10 x64 to run?



I have no interest in those games, they are very few I think gears 5, a few others like that but they have never interested me so meh


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## Vario (Jun 14, 2020)

Try LTSC.


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## biffzinker (Jun 14, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> c cleaner i use for startup programs, it has a lot more in depth ability to block certain startup processes not just executables that are beneficial.


The Task Manager has the ability to disable startup programs, and tells you the speed impact it has on startup.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 14, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> The Task Manager has the ability to disable startup programs, and tells you the speed impact it has on startup.
> View attachment 159035



dpes the task manager also let me disable non executable startup tasks? as that is what i was referring to... but completely ignore my wording sure thing. startup menu doesn't give you an enhanced list to pick from


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## Fleetwire (Jun 14, 2020)

I can agree that Windows 10 Pro/Home is filled with M$ dumpster fire, but even that can be removed and there is barely a speed difference... however, my Windows 10 LTSC has been treating me well, better than 7 or 8.1 ever did


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## Space Lynx (Jun 14, 2020)

Fleetwire said:


> I can agree that Windows 10 Pro/Home is filled with M$ dumpster fire, but even that can be removed and there is barely a speed difference... however, my Windows 10 LTSC has been treating me well, better than 7 or 8.1 ever did



all good, everyone likes different stuff. just letting people know i really love 8.1 the icons look sharper than 10 too, at the bottom, they have that glossy look to them and higher pixels i think too, weird


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## Fleetwire (Jun 14, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> all good, everyone likes different stuff. just letting people know i really love 8.1 the icons look sharper than 10 too, at the bottom, they have that glossy look to them and higher pixels i think too, weird


I can understand that, I do kinda prefer old Windows designs (except the abomination that was 7)


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## biffzinker (Jun 14, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> i really love 8.1 the icons look sharper than 10 too, at the bottom, they have that glossy look to them and higher pixels i think too, weird


If anything the icons are the same between 8.1 < 10.

They look the same as 8.1:


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## thesmokingman (Jun 14, 2020)

The irony is that the windows scheduler in 8 is old and not updated vs 10, especially important for Zen cpus.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 14, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> If anything the icons are the same between 8.1 < 10.
> 
> They look the same as 8.1:
> View attachment 159052



i was referring to the bar at bottom of desktop.






on win 10 they are pixelated and smaller, these are bigger, glossier, and have higher pixel count and are easier on the eyes (cant see the gloss in screenshot for some reason but its slightly there irl)


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## biffzinker (Jun 14, 2020)

They don't look any different from 8.1.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 15, 2020)

biffzinker said:


> They don't look any different from 8.1.
> View attachment 159059



at just a clean install, win 8.1 icons are enlarged a little (this can't be adjusted as its "normal or extra big and i have it on normal" nothing in between for win 8.1 settings, have a sheen to them that can't be seen in screenshot (as i already mentioned once and you have ignored yet again), steam icon especially looks more pixelated in win 10 vs win 8.1

yawn, tired of debating with someone who continually refuses to ignore my posts details. blocked


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## remixedcat (Jun 15, 2020)

I switched to mint Linux and it's way better than w10!!


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## natr0n (Jun 15, 2020)

I use 8.1 too.


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## Caring1 (Jun 15, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> ...yawn, tired of debating with someone who *continually refuses to ignore my posts details*. blocked


Hey, if you WANT people to ignore your posts, why didn't you just say so in the first one?


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## Toothless (Jun 15, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> at just a clean install, win 8.1 icons are enlarged a little (this can't be adjusted as its "normal or extra big and i have it on normal" nothing in between for win 8.1 settings, have a sheen to them that can't be seen in screenshot (as i already mentioned once and you have ignored yet again), steam icon especially looks more pixelated in win 10 vs win 8.1
> 
> yawn, tired of debating with someone who continually refuses to ignore my posts details. blocked


Just use small icons and call it good.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 15, 2020)

Toothless said:


> Just use small icons and call it good.



huh? win 8.1 has no option for small icons, it only has normal and larger... I'm at normal, and I like that the normal (aka smallest) is bigger than win 10's 100% default setting, it looks nice.



Caring1 said:


> Hey, if you WANT people to ignore your posts, why didn't you just say so in the first one?



don't let the door hit ya on the way out



natr0n said:


> I use 8.1 too.



ah, finally someone who understands. rock on!  i am actually seeing 7 fps higher in some of my games i regularly play over win 10 as well.  win 8.1 is a beast. and win 10 keeps adding more and more bloat in its backend


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## Rock N Roll Rebel (Jun 15, 2020)

any os that is cleane install seams faster because it's a fresh install. I bet if you fresh install windows 10 it would feel snappier too.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 15, 2020)

skellattarr said:


> any os that is cleane install seams faster because it's a fresh install. I bet if you fresh install windows 10 it would feel snappier too.



i installed 2004 on its launch day last week.  and yeah it was very snappy and smooth, but not to this level. it's possible it is placebo, but i don't think so. win 10 seems to be adding more and more to its backend, for example when i would move a bunch of steam chat windows around all at once on win 10 2004 sometimes it just felt slower than with win 8.1, win 8.1 is just a very barebones OS and i think that helps it a lot. since there is less going on in the background.


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## cucker tarlson (Jun 15, 2020)

8.1 was super nice and fast.I liked it a lot.

that said,w10 is pretty fast too.and free


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## micropage7 (Jun 15, 2020)

still use win 10 but i feel after the latest update it feels little bit heavy, i dunno from the OS or i have slow processor


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## Toothless (Jun 15, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> huh? win 8.1 has no option for small icons, it only has normal and larger... I'm at normal, and I like that the normal (aka smallest) is bigger than win 10's 100% default setting, it looks nice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Small icons on Win10. Honestly just don't be lazy and use that LS-whatever version of Windows or clean your os yourself. W8.1 doesn't have that much longer on support.


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## Vayra86 (Jun 15, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> dpes the task manager also let me disable non executable startup tasks? as that is what i was referring to... but completely ignore my wording sure thing. startup menu doesn't give you an enhanced list to pick from



command msconfig. Its as old as.... I can remember






But, nice skin for the same menu yes 

Pretty ironic how you're loading Win 8 with third party apps that replace built in functionality and then call it not bloated.

Meanwhile, my Win 10 install that has been going without a clean install since Jan 2019.... still boots in 8 seconds; from POST to desktop. And I don't go all anal about it, it just goes that way with all the crap that's on this rig. But... I do shy away from third party apps and 'awesome Windows hacks' and most importantly, I don't download additional RAM.



lynx29 said:


> don't let the door hit ya on the way out



This comes to mind... cue the other topic a few days back, similar response. its really strange because you really seem to love the attention. Is this topic just meant to bait?







lynx29 said:


> i installed 2004 on its launch day last week.  and yeah it was very snappy and smooth, but not to this level. it's possible it is placebo, but i don't think so. win 10 seems to be adding more and more to its backend, for example when i would move a bunch of steam chat windows around all at once on win 10 2004 sometimes it just felt slower than with win 8.1, win 8.1 is just a very barebones OS and i think that helps it a lot. since there is less going on in the background.



Yes, its placebo.


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## Vayra86 (Jun 15, 2020)

It says it right there in your quote

.... That's a lot of ninja edits


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## Space Lynx (Jun 15, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> command msconfig. Its as old as.... I can remember
> 
> View attachment 159086
> 
> ...




Incorrect, that list shows only all the processes, where as the C Cleaner list I screenshotted showed only the lists that are on startup your list is miles long, mine has maybe 20 options total. you are showing all services, not startup only detailed services and background ones like 5 different google ones at startup.

nah I don't think it is placebo though, thanks for your opinion though. welcome to blocklist


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## Vayra86 (Jun 15, 2020)

Ignorance is bliss


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## Caring1 (Jun 15, 2020)

I tried W8.0 a few times, it felt slower than W7 and more bloated due to the Metro affect and Microsoft's attempt at changing things to appeal to a new audience.
W8.1 was better but W10 after a few iterations is pretty good, from boot to desktop in 15 seconds or less and everything feels snappier for me.
Don't get me started on Vista and how slow that was if you didn't have much Ram.


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## Kissamies (Jun 15, 2020)

8.1 was ok on my old Atom tablet but on my main PC, I ditched it immediately 10 was released, and there's no going back on previous versions except for testing older hardware.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 15, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> I tried W8.0 a few times, it felt slower than W7 and more bloated due to the Metro affect and Microsoft's attempt at changing things to appeal to a new audience.
> W8.1 was better but W10 after a few iterations is pretty good, from boot to desktop in 15 seconds or less and everything feels snappier for me.
> Don't get me started on Vista and how slow that was if you didn't have much Ram.



it's also possible certain hardware configuartions run better on 8.1 versus 10. i am unsure. but it is the only variable i can think of why i like 8.1 so much compared to most people.


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## R0H1T (Jun 15, 2020)

Probably running it on everyone's favorite, back in the day, *9590* the *FX* kind?


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## Space Lynx (Jun 15, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Probably running it on everyone's favorite, back in the day, *9590* the *FX* kind?



gtx 1070 laptop, but maybe the laptop part has something to do with it, i don't know. i know it doesn't make sense, was just an idea. but it does feel snappier on 8.1.


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## Toothless (Jun 15, 2020)

I mean, if you _really_ need that much control over your programs and unchecking "launch on startup" doesn't work, sure? Otherwise Win10 I'm pretty sure takes the cake on every system I've ran. Just my two cents.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 15, 2020)

Toothless said:


> I mean, if you _really_ need that much control over your programs and unchecking "launch on startup" doesn't work, sure? Otherwise Win10 I'm pretty sure takes the cake on every system I've ran. Just my two cents.




you are missing OneDrive and a few others on normal startup, also if you over to context menu and windows services and scheduled tasks your talking 15+ more scheduled startup tasks not listed under windows option. and i do the google one on purpose because google pushed an update from Canary too fast once a couple years ago that broke sync - and it messed up a lot of stuff for me, and preventing updater from running at startup has been very handy for me and i have had 0 issues since.

/shrug i like doing it my way, its fine if you do it your way too


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## R0H1T (Jun 15, 2020)

Part of the reason could be less number of services under win 8.1 ~ I've been on windows insider (previews) since it launched & have been a part of active development of windows pre win7 release. Every new version is quicker/feels snappier than the last one, though tbf an apples to apples comparison is nearly impossible these days because of the many security patches that may apply depending on your processor & windows build. At best, as others have said, it's placebo. If you want more objective results try running tests & benchmarks on the latest stable builds (clean install) with win 8.1 vs win 10. That's the closest you'll get to comparing "OS" performance.


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## Octopuss (Jun 15, 2020)

You're doing something wrong.
My PC is based on i7-3770K and Win10 runs flawlessly for me, in terms of speed. I see no slowdowns or any performance-like annoyances.

Also https://helpdeskgeek.com/free-tools-review/why-you-shouldnt-download-ccleaner-for-windows-anymore/
CCleaner is placebo *at best*. Might cause problems just as well.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 15, 2020)

Octopuss said:


> You're doing something wrong.
> My PC is based on i7-3770K and Win10 runs flawlessly for me, in terms of speed. I see no slowdowns or any performance-like annoyances.
> 
> Also https://helpdeskgeek.com/free-tools-review/why-you-shouldnt-download-ccleaner-for-windows-anymore/
> CCleaner is placebo *at best*. Might cause problems just as well.



I have only ever used CCleaner portable variant and I use winaero oneclick firewall to block that and 95% of other apps from ever accessing internet. so meh even the malware variant of cclaner i was safe just cause of the way i do things.  but yeah its mostly unnecessary i agree. but its also been harmless for me, i registry cleaner stuff all the time and never had any issues. never had issues with win 10 either. i just mean in a general sense win 8. 1 just seems snappier, i think it might have something to do with the win 8.1 handles mouse movement versus 10, i read about it somewhere a long time but forget now. maybe that is what i like about it. it feels more 1:1 ? not sure if i am using right terms here haha


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## Vayra86 (Jun 15, 2020)

__





						Desktop compositing latency is real and it annoys me
					





					www.lofibucket.com
				




Might be interesting, too bad I'm on ignore 

In addition... it IS true that compared to ancient OS'es, the latency has risen steadily over the years. The trend is up, not down. But to think that occurs between Win 8 > 10 is kinda weird because they're virtually the same OS'es doing similar things, and the scheduler has only gotten better.

Put differently, if W10 is slower for you, its a problem you can fix.


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## R0H1T (Jun 15, 2020)

I dunno, he seems to go back & forth on his findings ~


> *Update*: Note that the capture method I use needs to read pixels back from the GPU which can be slow. This means the Windows 10 results are probably worse than they should be. However, without external hardware this seems to be the only way to measure keyboard to screen latency.
> 
> *Another update*: After some discussions I’ve come to the conclusion that the Windows 10 latency values in the graph above aren’t really representative of the DWM latency. The pixel readback (and the GPU pipeline stall) takes a long time (20 ms after vsync!) so the sampling interval is very coarse. It also seems to be locked to display’s vertical refresh.
> 
> I didn’t consider this a big problem originally since I was after minimum latencies, so the interval between a keypress and the synced screen refresh roughly corresponds to the latency experienced by the user. But if that’s what we’re after there are better ways to measure it. It isn’t very interesting though since it’s just 8 ms on average.







__





						Desktop compositing latency is real and it annoys me
					





					www.lofibucket.com
				




Fact is OS comparison, especially their effective feel or *speed* is neither (realistically) possible nor can objectively be measured! There's just too many variables, oh did I mention *drivers*?


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## Vayra86 (Jun 15, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> I dunno, he seems to go back & forth on his findings ~
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He debunked his own theory that is what happened to him. He noticed there are other variables in play that affected latency measurements.


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## R0H1T (Jun 15, 2020)

Yes & like I said ~ you can't measure (speed) or compare OSes, especially 5 years(?) apart objectively because of the number of variables involved not in the least drivers, OS patches, uarch optimizations, just to name a few. As for latency, there's a lot of things to consider for that as well. Apart from the feel good factor about a fresh (OS) install & perhaps not having to deal with the additional services & telemetry under win10, there's not much for anyone to add here!


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## Apocalypsee (Jun 15, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> dpes the task manager also let me disable non executable startup tasks? as that is what i was referring to... but completely ignore my wording sure thing. startup menu doesn't give you an enhanced list to pick from


You can use Autoruns for that.


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## tabascosauz (Jun 15, 2020)

To be fair, an Win 8.1 clean install always felt faster than a Win 10 clean install on a *laptop* with a 15W -U chip. With a simple SATA SSD, my old Inspiron 7437 with the 4510U always flew along until Win 10 came along. Nowadays, it feels barely faster than its original HDD+SRT configuration, despite plenty of unused space on the SSD and functioning TRIM/GC. 

Same goes for my current XPS 9370 and its wildly varying application opening times despite a very slim and clean installation, no Bitlocker, a 8550U, a fast NVMe and also previously the fastest OEM NVMe, and max power plan. So I went to Kubuntu instead, and when I occasionally need to go back to Windows to use Office apps, I've turned off all the animations in Win 10 to save myself the trouble of looking at Windows Explorer windows that load in after the borders.

I've never had any issues on any of my desktops, however. Plus, it's nigh impossible to prove these instinctive feelings about performance. I sure as hell hope Core 0 is your best, though, with the Win 8 scheduler. Win 1909 is where you want to be with any Matisse or Renoir chip.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 15, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> To be fair, an Win 8.1 clean install always felt faster than a Win 10 clean install on a *laptop* with a 15W -U chip. With a simple SATA SSD, my old Inspiron 7437 with the 4510U always flew along until Win 10 came along. Nowadays, it feels barely faster than its original HDD+SRT configuration, despite plenty of unused space on the SSD and functioning TRIM/GC.
> 
> Same goes for my current XPS 9370 and its wildly varying application opening times despite a very slim and clean installation, no Bitlocker, a 8550U, a fast NVMe and also previously the fastest OEM NVMe, and max power plan. So I went to Kubuntu instead, and when I occasionally need to go back to Windows to use Office apps, I've turned off all the animations in Win 10 to save myself the trouble of looking at Windows Explorer windows that load in after the borders.
> 
> I've never had any issues on any of my desktops, however. Plus, it's nigh impossible to prove these instinctive feelings about performance. I sure as hell hope Core 0 is your best, though, with the Win 8 scheduler. Win 1909 is where you want to be with any Matisse or Renoir chip.



thanks for someone understanding me then. maybe that is the issue here, cause i have done a ton of mods on this laptop


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## Assimilator (Jun 15, 2020)

Serious question: are you installing Windows on a literal potato?


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## Vayra86 (Jun 15, 2020)

Here, take this wallpaper to go with your next Win 10 install


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## Decryptor009 (Jun 15, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> Incorrect, that list shows only all the processes, where as the C Cleaner list I screenshotted showed only the lists that are on startup your list is miles long, mine has maybe 20 options total. you are showing all services, not startup only detailed services and background ones like 5 different google ones at startup.
> 
> nah I don't think it is placebo though, thanks for your opinion though. *welcome to blocklist*



You seem a wee little on the end of idiot syndrom.

Unless it is just you wish to be the only person in the world with an opinion and never have an opposing one.

I have a better suggestion for you.

Use a computer that is not a potato and learn to become more logical rather than emotional over an Operating System.

If you ask nicely, i am sure 8.1 will touch you too.


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## dgianstefani (Jun 15, 2020)

O&O ShutUp10++ – Free antispy tool for Windows 10 and 11
					

With the freeware O&O ShutUp10++, unwanted Windows 10 and 11 features can be disabled and the transfer of sensitive personal data onto Microsoft prevented.




					www.oo-software.com
				



If you care about privacy and telemetry just use this tool, which runs in 15 seconds then you restart.

But yeah. Using a 9 year old OS is better than just changing a couple of settings lmfao.


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## Decryptor009 (Jun 15, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> O&O ShutUp10++ – Free antispy tool for Windows 10 and 11
> 
> 
> With the freeware O&O ShutUp10++, unwanted Windows 10 and 11 features can be disabled and the transfer of sensitive personal data onto Microsoft prevented.
> ...


If you lick the 9 year old kernal, you are in for a surprise, perhaps the OP licked the kernal?










Out of all kernels available, he just had to lick 8.1..... there shall be no return from here, this person has done an act of greatness, evil  & wrong, but great.

His name shall go down in history and his name shall be silenced through fear, through blockage of opinion, the troll must rise in power.


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## dyonoctis (Jun 15, 2020)

The one thing that is often mentioned when a system feels fatser than another one are the animations themselves. While I don't think that my install of win 10 is slow, I do have a few odd animations quirks  that make the experience feels clunky even though it's just something that happens for a few miliseconds. The system is still fast when it comes to do work on it, but it sometimes I do feel like windows could be more "smooth", more "refined" in some aspect.

It's good for him if he's happy with his new setup, but to all the people arguing with him : lynx does seems to have an habit of making unpopular/shocking statement or act, and doesn't like when people don't agree. 
It happened when he wanted to sell his AMD zen 2 setup and get Intel 10th gen after the 400 chipset debacle, and it also happened for a small debate about first person vs third person gaming. It's pointless to argue, expressing an opinion that differs might be met with a passive aggressive answer.


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## W1zzard (Jun 15, 2020)

clean windows 10 anyone? takes like 5 minutes after install














						Windows 10 Tweaks for VGA Benchmark
					

Updated for Windows 10 21H2 Update  - Install without Internet, so you can create an offline user - name the user "TPU" (the user will be deleted at the end of the scripts and you're using "Administrator") - Install VGA driver, from USB, still without network, so Windows Update won't install a...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Frick (Jun 15, 2020)

Vayra86 said:


> Pretty ironic how you're loading Win 8 with third party apps that replace built in functionality and then call it not bloated.



He lives 20 years ago. Remember how MS was sued for bundling a browser with the OS? Those were the glory days. Appsrently.


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