# Windows 11 ISO Leaks to the Web, New Start Screen, Mac-like Centered Dock, Rounded Edges



## btarunr (Jun 15, 2021)

Alleged screenshots of Microsoft's upcoming operating system, the Windows 11, were leaked to the web ahead of its June 24 unveiling. The screenshots reveal a user interface that has several tie-ins with the current Windows 10, although enough is there to set it apart. For starters, the Start "menu" (if you can call it that), looks less like a menu, and more like a pop-out window with icons and actions, much like the macOS Finder. Icons pinned to the taskbar or open, are centered. The clock and system tray is still where it should be. 

Windows Explorer features a familiar ribbon-type user interface, although there are changes to the icons. It's laid out exactly like in Windows 10. A thing to notice here is the window theme itself, which is single-tone, and with rounded edges. The "News and Interests" menu that surfaced in the recent Windows 10 update is more full-featured. User interface is only a fraction of what makes up a Windows major version, and Windows 11 is said to feature major under-the-hood changes, such as a new scheduler that's better suited for the upcoming hybrid x86 core processors from Intel and AMD. 



 

 

 

 



*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


----------



## matar (Jun 15, 2021)

Does it improve FPS that's all we care about.


----------



## TheEndIsNear (Jun 15, 2021)

Dammit if they are going to make it like a Mac I'm going to Linux


----------



## robot zombie (Jun 15, 2021)

matar said:


> Does it improve FPS that's all we care about.


I dunno... stability, security, usability, flexibility, customization... those are pretty important.


----------



## Lionheart (Jun 15, 2021)

Bring back the Windows 7 transparent shiny gloss to the windows/taskbar, looked way better than this current matt flat look we have now days.


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 15, 2021)

Classic MS - we don't know what to do so let's move things around and see what happens.
You simply have to use Teams for month to see how chaotic they are in their execution.


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Jun 15, 2021)

TBH. This Ui smells like it was a Ui designed for mobile devices.


----------



## birdie (Jun 15, 2021)

Lionheart said:


> Bring back the Windows 7 transparent shiny gloss to the windows/taskbar, looked way better than this current matt flat look we have now days.



To be honest Vista and 7 were the best looking OSes from Microsoft ever. Since W8 it's been all downhill.



FreedomEclipse said:


> TBH. This Ui smells like it was a Ui designed for mobile devices.



Um, what? Have you been living under the rock? This has been the idea since Windows 8.


----------



## Fouquin (Jun 15, 2021)

FreedomEclipse said:


> TBH. This Ui smells like it was a Ui designed for mobile devices.



So. Much. Padding.

Every icon is a million miles apart and you can't tighten the grid. Just wasting screen space for the hell of it.


----------



## Lionheart (Jun 15, 2021)

FreedomEclipse said:


> TBH. This Ui smells like it was a Ui designed for mobile devices.



Oh god, Microsoft already destroyed Nokia, are they after another Phone/Mobile company?


----------



## TheOne (Jun 15, 2021)

So just Windows 10X.


----------



## lZKoce (Jun 15, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> You simply have to use Teams for month to see how chaotic they are in their execution.


Not sure what you mean. Company I work for, switched to Teams a couple of months ago as their main webex service. Have been using it at work every single day since then. Haven't experienced any major issues with it.


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 15, 2021)

lZKoce said:


> Not sure what you mean. Company I work for, switched to Teams a couple of months ago as their main webex service. Have been using it at work every single day since then. Haven't experienced any major issues with it.


So you must have been having some meetings right? Participants displayed above, next week on the right, then arranged in a grid. Three people in a call, their icons are displayed in dead center so it looks like Teams' cross-eyed. "Let's add applause action".
And yet they still can't get the stupid screen sharing right. Just today I was able to turn on the camera of person that was sharing the screen by clicking... invisible icon that was in the correct place.
The worse part is that MS has convinced people that they no longer need to provide people RDP access, they simply have a meeting and share their screen to you and grant you control, right?


----------



## silentbogo (Jun 15, 2021)

Those new icons look like my first attempts at SVG pictograms in Inkscape... Current set is at least passable, I hope they'll leave the option to switch back.
OSXy taskbar is a good thing. I've been using something like this on Ubuntu and older versions of Windows(since XP), but ended up being too lazy to find a solution to realign my app buttons in W10.
The rest - don't care about and will likely disable. Can't even stand their new weather widget near system tray, which requires you to sign in with MS account in order to change locale and location.


Lionheart said:


> Oh god, Microsoft already destroyed Nokia, are they after another Phone/Mobile company?


That's what I thought before, but given their recent history I think Nokia destroyed Nokia. Their refreshed smartphone business was promising, but formally lasted a year with one product lineup cycle. No proper flagships since my Nokia 8, no OLED models, not a hint of "legendary reliability"... everything is sub-mediocre and overpriced, even feature phones.


----------



## mouacyk (Jun 15, 2021)

robot zombie said:


> I dunno... stability, security, usability, flexibility, customization... those are pretty important.


I suppose... MS does have a few XBoxes to sell.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Jun 15, 2021)

Lionheart said:


> Bring back the Windows 7 transparent shiny gloss to the windows/taskbar, looked way better than this current matt flat look we have now days.


No thanks.

Got my hands on a Windows 11 .iso, time to test this out.


----------



## AusWolf (Jun 15, 2021)

It looks exactly like windows 10 to me.


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Jun 15, 2021)

birdie said:


> Um, what? Have you been living under the rock? This has been the idea since Windows 8.



Im just saying. Water is wet.

In terms of _'mobile devices'_ I mean devices like tablets such as their surface tab. This Ui looks very android or macOS like


----------



## Fouquin (Jun 15, 2021)

Also just to correct the title @btarunr the leaked ISO is the all in one image. It's not just Pro.


----------



## delshay (Jun 15, 2021)

matar said:


> Does it improve FPS that's all we care about.



It must have something new for DirectX.    ..Vulkan 2.0 should be here by the end of the year or first quarter next year. I just know Vulkan 2.0 is is being worked on...


----------



## mechtech (Jun 15, 2021)

Rounded corners you say.  Hey MS, my video card and monitor can display more than 8 colours.   Just saying


----------



## Hardware Geek (Jun 15, 2021)

It just seems somehow right that Microsoft declared Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows then not even change the name for the next version. I just thought they meant they were going to change them name of their operating system to something else.


----------



## lZKoce (Jun 15, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> So you must have been having some meetings right? Participants displayed above, next week on the right, then arranged in a grid. Three people in a call, their icons are displayed in dead center so it looks like Teams' cross-eyed. "Let's add applause action".
> And yet they still can't get the stupid screen sharing right. Just today I was able to turn on the camera of person that was sharing the screen by clicking... invisible icon that was in the correct place.
> The worse part is that MS has convinced people that they no longer need to provide people RDP access, they simply have a meeting and share their screen to you and grant you control, right?



OK, yeah, now that you mention it, I agree. I constantly look for my participant's list when I share my screen. Pretty annoying alright. Ok, you got me on board for your cause


----------



## Lionheart (Jun 15, 2021)

Emily said:


> No thanks.
> 
> Got my hands on a Windows 11 .iso, time to test this out.



It's not for everyone I guess. 

Cool, if you can be bothered let me/us know how Win11 is, cheers.


----------



## Chane (Jun 15, 2021)

nope, it better have an option to move start to the left. I hate this centered look.


----------



## TechLurker (Jun 15, 2021)

Man, I had to double-check the date. I was hit with some hard nostalgia of the early 2000s when Apple first got this updated look, and there were a few Windows UI Theme Packs that crudely overrode the default UI in favor of a Mac-style UI. Because this is almost exactly what it looks like, just in higher res.

At this rate, I think I'm actually going to end up spending a bit on StarDock's Windows UI overhauls to get back my Win7 style setup and some functionality back.


----------



## TheOne (Jun 15, 2021)

You know I had hoped they had finally figured out that desktop users don't want a mobile experience, but instead they just take the pure Windows 10 they were working on for mobile devices and decided to stick it on everything.  I mean I'm going to hold off on deciding whether I like it or hate it until I hear more, but I am pessimistic.


----------



## TheinsanegamerN (Jun 15, 2021)

Looks horrible. So much wasted space and mobile design that has no place in a desktop OS. And I'll guarantee that many of the smaller features and settings from the control panel are STILL not ported to the metro interface. 

To add insult to injury they don't even have a decent tablet that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Jun 16, 2021)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> To add insult to injury they don't even have a decent tablet that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.



an ASUS VivoBook Flip TM420 is about $392 here. Its not a full on tablet by any means but it will run windows


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jun 16, 2021)

All I see is news hogging my start menu, and a bunch of xbox crap. Same old sh*t, SMH. Gonna have to do major surgery.

Here’s hoping Stardock has a Start11 by release time.


----------



## Guwapo77 (Jun 16, 2021)

I hope they improve Hyper-V...


----------



## Diverge (Jun 16, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> Classic MS - we don't know what to do so let's move things around and see what happens.
> You simply have to use Teams for month to see how chaotic they are in their execution.


You just described all versions of MS Office... I hate finding where they moved things...


----------



## johnpa (Jun 16, 2021)

Chane said:


> nope, it better have an option to move start to the left. I hate this centered look.



It has an option to move the start menu to the left:









						Windows 11 leak reveals new UI, Start menu, and more
					

Screenshots reveal new Start menu and taskbar design.




					www.theverge.com
				




The Start menu looks like the start menu of the GNOME desktop environment to me.


----------



## Jism (Jun 16, 2021)

delshay said:


> It must have something new for DirectX.    ..Vulkan 2.0 should be here by the end of the year or first quarter next year. I just know Vulkan 2.0 is is being worked on...



With vulkan you could still play the latest features (HW support) on even windows XP. With W7, W10 and even W11 appearantly you gotta update all the way around.

I dont like it. Too much of a integrated OS. OS needs todo simply being an OS. Nothing more.


----------



## AusWolf (Jun 16, 2021)

Hardware Geek said:


> It just seems somehow right that Microsoft declared Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows then not even change the name for the next version. I just thought they meant they were going to change them name of their operating system to something else.


They can't because it literally is windows 10 with a new theme (at least I can't see any difference).


----------



## johnpa (Jun 16, 2021)

The new Start menu does not have Live Tiles.

Additionally:

Windows 11 is expected to release to the public this October, available as a free upgrade to all Windows 10 devices, similar to other past Windows updates. Those who wish to stick with Windows 10 will be able to do so, while a second branch of Windows 10 is likely to support enterprises unwilling to upgrade to the new version immediately. We also expected Windows 11 to be available for standalone purchase, as with all past versions of Microsoft operating systems.


----------



## bim27142 (Jun 16, 2021)

Mac-like Centered Dock​
Windows is WINDOWS and Mac is MAC!

Why are they trying to be "Mac-like". Oftentimes, strategy like this is more bounded to flop.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 16, 2021)

Oh "yay"


----------



## johnpa (Jun 16, 2021)

My first thought is that since Windows 10 will stop getting feature updates, but only bug fixes, it will become very stable.


----------



## watzupken (Jun 16, 2021)

While a change in UI can refresh things a little, but I am looking forward to the OS being less of a resource hog and ease of use for touchscreen users. With the introduction of Windows 10, the OS have pretty much obsolete mechanical hard disks because they get hammered with a lot of processes that it takes a solid 5 to 10 mins after booting before it settles down and no severe lag.


----------



## m2geek (Jun 16, 2021)

TheEndIsNear said:


> Dammit if they are going to make it like a Mac I'm going to Linux



You can literally take 2 seconds and change the alignment of the taskbar back to left, it's in the settings.

Calm your farm.



bim27142 said:


> Mac-like Centered Dock​
> Windows is WINDOWS and Mac is MAC!
> 
> Why are they trying to be "Mac-like". Oftentimes, strategy like this is more bounded to flop.


People have been asking to centre the icons on the taskbar for a long ass time now, there is even apps to do it on the Appstore because it's more eye-pleasing and workflow friendly - Especially on ultrawide displays.

You can turn off the centred icons in the settings if you're so upset by it


----------



## lightning70 (Jun 16, 2021)

I don't like the Start Menu. Not the usual Windows design. I will try.


----------



## AsRock (Jun 16, 2021)

Any actual useful details on what excuse they have for Windows 11 ?.

So much Win10 for ever, until most jumped on to it and then laughed at everyone.



m2geek said:


> You can literally take 2 seconds and change the alignment of the taskbar back to left, it's in the settings.
> 
> Calm your farm.
> 
> ...



As long as they allow the old way most will be happy, although it be one more thing to change when installed.  Not finding it eye pleasing here it's more of a annoyance.


----------



## johnpa (Jun 16, 2021)

I downloaded and installed it in a VirtualBox virtual machine. I like its new UI *a lot*. It is like a breath of fresh air.

The leaked ISO is named 21996.1.210529-1541.co_release_CLIENT_CONSUMER_x64FRE_en-us.iso.

Be careful and do not install it in a normal machine, it may contain malware.

You may wait until the first formal Windows Insider release.


----------



## bobbybluz (Jun 16, 2021)

Seriously? I sure hope 11 Enterprise LTSC doesn't look like a cross between a cell phone and late night television commercials.


----------



## johnpa (Jun 16, 2021)

bobbybluz said:


> Seriously? I sure hope 11 Enterprise LTSC doesn't look like a cross between a cell phone and late night television commercials.



I think it is more focused to desktop than Windows 10. It has not Live Tiles for example.

I am a Linux user, and the start menu looks like GNOME in Linux.

Also it has desktop widgets, but they are not still available to use.

I think it is a major Windows release, focused in UI *desktop* improvements, while keeping support for touch screens.

I do not think it is useful for tablets, but lets wait and see the final release, it is still under development.


----------



## r.h.p (Jun 16, 2021)

robot zombie said:


> I dunno... stability, security, usability, flexibility, customization... those are pretty important.



agree , personally i dont care what the gui looks like


----------



## zlobby (Jun 16, 2021)

robot zombie said:


> I dunno... stability, security, usability, flexibility, customization... those are pretty important.


And my bet is 11 hardly touches any of that.


----------



## CoolZone (Jun 16, 2021)

It is just Windows 10 with small GUI changes, all other apps are exactly the same! Installed it last night.


----------



## Kokorniokos (Jun 16, 2021)

Hope the dark theme will get some much needed consistency.


----------



## johnpa (Jun 16, 2021)

I have read, the new apps and the new Microsoft Store are not available in Windows 11 yet.


----------



## 720p low (Jun 16, 2021)

No thanks, Microsoft. I'll pass...


----------



## dyonoctis (Jun 16, 2021)

rtwjunkie said:


> All I see is news hogging my start menu, and a bunch of xbox crap. Same old sh*t, SMH. Gonna have to do major surgery.
> 
> Here’s hoping Stardock has a Start11 by release time.


I don't think that this is the start menu, but rather the news/weather panel that they recently added :


----------



## AusWolf (Jun 16, 2021)

dyonoctis said:


> I don't think that this is the start menu, but rather the news/weather panel that they recently added :
> View attachment 204106


Oh Jesus, isn't it enough to hear about the world's BS on the radio at work, now I'll have to look at it on my own PC as well? I hope it can be uninstalled (or minimised like the current panel).


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 16, 2021)

dyonoctis said:


> I don't think that this is the start menu, but rather the news/weather panel that they recently added :
> View attachment 204106


I want to see their stats that show many users disabled it after first boot.


----------



## R0H1T (Jun 16, 2021)

It isn't as bad as many of you are making it out to be, have none of you ever seen custom themes on XP or win7


----------



## TheOne (Jun 16, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Oh Jesus, isn't it enough to hear about the world's BS on the radio at work, now I'll have to look at it on my own PC as well? I hope it can be uninstalled (or minimised like the current panel).



You can "disable" it by right clicking the taskbar then go to "News and interests" and select "Turn off".


----------



## NuCore (Jun 16, 2021)

Looks like macOS beta (dock) but more primitive


----------



## AusWolf (Jun 16, 2021)

TheOne said:


> You can "disable" it by right clicking the taskbar then go to "News and interests" and select "Turn off".


I hope that will be true for Win 11 too - though the weather part is quite useful.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jun 16, 2021)

dyonoctis said:


> I don't think that this is the start menu, but rather the news/weather panel that they recently added :
> View attachment 204106


Ok, thanks. Damn, that is not a “feature I want. I’ll have to figure out how to disable it. Or someone else will. There will likely be many that have all the less desirable components disabled by the time it is officially released.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jun 16, 2021)

TheEndIsNear said:


> Dammit if they are going to make it like a Mac I'm going to Linux


It can be moved.


----------



## InhaleOblivion (Jun 16, 2021)

If I wanted Mac OS...I'd use I don't know...Mac OS.


----------



## johnpa (Jun 16, 2021)

I am attaching two images of the Start menu, from my installation in VirtualBox.

There are not Live Tiles.


----------



## AusWolf (Jun 16, 2021)

johnpa said:


> I am attaching two images of the Start menu, from my installation in VirtualBox.


The second image is alright, but what's that chaos in the first one? Also, why is the Start button not in the corner where it has been for the last 30 years or so? Does Microsoft have nothing better to do than redesign things that never needed redesigning?


----------



## Prima.Vera (Jun 16, 2021)

wtf is this $hit???


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jun 16, 2021)

Looks like the traditional start menu is a regedit away.








						Windows 11 Might Let You Get Your Windows 10 Start Menu Back
					

The Internet is buzzing with opinions and discoveries on the alleged leaked Windows 11 build and what features the next Windows release will bring or…




					www.slashgear.com


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 16, 2021)

TheLostSwede said:


> Looks like the traditional start menu is a regedit away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In before Windows 10 themed Classic Shell


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 16, 2021)

I am not to bothered about the looks or start button, I couldn't care less about the middle task bar move, the middle is probably the best place, 50% closer to where the cursor usually is when I decide to start something.
Start menu's gone, did I actually use it much, no but it was nice to have.

But that's pretty much it, how's that equal a generational leap I'm going to have to think about that, they need a killer app or API because this meh basket isn't different enough to pay for ATM IMHO.


----------



## johnpa (Jun 16, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> The second image is alright, but what's that chaos in the first one? Also, why is the Start button not in the corner where it has been for the last 30 years or so? Does Microsoft have nothing better to do than redesign things that never needed redesigning?



The taskbar can be aligned to the left.


----------



## Markosz (Jun 16, 2021)

Absolutely disgusting rounded crap with tons of mobile elements.
MS is absolute shameless liars, they said Win 10 would be the last.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jun 16, 2021)

I absolutely detest the News and Interests 'feature' foisted upon Windows 10.

People have their own preferred delivery mechanisms for news, and it's extremely likely Bing News isn't their chosen source despite Microsoft jamming it in their face incessantly over the last two decades. I've not used it or changed any preferences but by default it's largely just tabloid rubbish riddled with Taboola/Outbrain adbait.

Oh and guess what, any items you click on for more info in the News and Interests app *ignore your browser choice *and open in Edge.

*F*ck off, Microsoft, seriously....*


----------



## rutra80 (Jun 16, 2021)

MS is so insecure, like a teenage copycat. They have the most mature, best OS in the world but they keep leading it like a sheep would lead a lion. With W8 they were trying to make it a mobile, touch operated OS, faking an iOS and Android with their stores. Now they're trying to downgrade it to a macOS. Seems like it will follow the rule that every 2nd release sucks.


----------



## AusWolf (Jun 16, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> I absolutely detest the News and Interests 'feature' foisted upon Windows 10.
> 
> People have their own preferred delivery mechanisms for news, and it's extremely likely Bing News isn't their chosen source despite Microsoft jamming it in their face incessantly over the last two decades. I've not used it or changed any preferences but by default it's largely just tabloid rubbish riddled with Taboola/Outbrain adbait.
> 
> ...


I don't understand why people would want information selected by a third party from questionable sources to be shoved into their faces. If I was so uninterested about the quality of the content I consume, I'd rather pay for a TV service. With that, you don't even need to click on anything. Perfect for stupid lazy people.


----------



## Aleksandar_038 (Jun 16, 2021)

OK, people are hilarious.
There were so many comments over the web that Windows 10X start is so much better, refreshing, and good looking etc, etc.... then ugly live tiles... And now they change Start to that version (plus, it is customizable), and everybody are angry?!?! Seriously? 

If Windows is such a mess, then just jump to Linux or MacOS. Forget Windows... It is ugly, unstable, slow, etc, etc... Linux is great, awesome, customizable, bla, bla - we are listening that for 20 years already from so many people. I mean, we all should have switched by now, no?


----------



## Octopuss (Jun 16, 2021)

Somehow I've just had a flashback to Windows 2000. THAT was a badass OS that was revolutionary at that time. 
This is just a joke.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jun 16, 2021)

I think crapple will spit chips. Looks very very like their OS. 


Anywhere to get the iso, fancy a look


----------



## claes (Jun 16, 2021)

Gotta say as someone who has actually used Macs this doesn’t really resemble MacOS at all IMO :head scratch:

looks kinda like gnome to me but really I just see Windows 10 with some modern ux elements :shrug:

@btarunr the start menu looks like Finder? Really? 

View attachment 26C0AB35-DEC8-4FC5-9716-8CC58C395AE4.webp


----------



## Ja.KooLit (Jun 16, 2021)

guys. It can be activated with windows 10 key  I have tried logging with my old M$ acct, then I used my windows 10 keys to activate 

Did a short video. Taskbar can be changed so it will look like windows 10 and not Mac look


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 16, 2021)

Hi,
At least the wallpaper is different lol


----------



## johnpa (Jun 16, 2021)

night.fox said:


> guys. It can be activated with windows 10 key  I have tried logging with my old M$ acct, then I used my windows 10 keys to activate
> 
> Did a short video. Taskbar can be changed so it will look like windows 10 and not Mac look



Great video, thank you. I have not activated it myself, because the leaked version may contain malware and steal my product key.

So, I can not test the various themes, etc. Nice video.


----------



## Ja.KooLit (Jun 16, 2021)

johnpa said:


> Great video, thank you. I have not activated it myself, because the leaked version may contain malware and steal my product key.
> 
> So, I can not test the various themes, etc. Nice video.


thanks. Well i dont mind if key will be stolen or ms block my acct. its an old one and extra key anyway (bought in ebay long time back for 2 dollars wahaha)


----------



## XiGMAKiD (Jun 16, 2021)

From what I've seen so far not great not terrible, there's a progress that could go to a good direction that's not traditional like 7, not crippled like Windows 8, not an abomination like 10. Looking forward to 2025.


----------



## Wirko (Jun 16, 2021)

Of all the things that MS shoved into Windows UI after 2001, Live Tiles are one of the most benign, and none of them keeps coming back after you've removed them, as far as I know. Weather is almost useful - computer users typically have their window shades closed, or have their operations room in the basement, and how else could they check the weather right here, right now?


----------



## Athlonite (Jun 16, 2021)

Well that's just fuckin ugly and that centered shit can fuck right off no thanks I don't run windows on a Tablet so don't be givin me that god awful tablet type look on the desktop that shit can fuck right off and when it's far enough away it can fuck off some more


----------



## Mussels (Jun 16, 2021)

wheres the game benchmarks at

Windows 11 has leaked: Here's a sneak peek before next week's launch! (xda-developers.com)


I also love that in this article you can see the crack they used to activate 11 with [facepalm]


----------



## Dyatlov A (Jun 16, 2021)

Microsoft, do instead a service pack for Windows 7 and everybody will be happy!


----------



## medi01 (Jun 16, 2021)

Gruffalo.Soldier said:


> I think crapple will spit chips. Looks very very like their OS.


Looks nearly identical to Win 10 to me, bar centering of the start/buttons (which is a matter of taste, my start button is in the top right corner and in general "status bar" is better on the side when working on wide screens, but again a matter of taste)


----------



## Wirko (Jun 16, 2021)

m2geek said:


> People have been asking to centre the icons on the taskbar for a long ass time now, there is even apps to do it on the Appstore because it's more eye-pleasing and workflow friendly - Especially on ultrawide displays.


This _might_ be a good idea if the execution was right. The start button is now a moving target, if you open several applications in succession from the start menu, the button will move to the left each time. In Mac OS High Sierra for example, the boundaries of Dock were still easily visible (but gradually disappeared over the years). Finding the left edge of Dock was easier because you had a visual cue. Microsoft didn't even try to copy the good part - there's no boundary at all between the Start button and the empty part of the taskbar.

Parts of desktop (or parts of a window) that serve different functions should be easy to distinguish visually, that's something that Microsoft was well aware of until ~2009, and less and less afterwards.

Then again, if you click to the left of the Start button, what happens? Do you get the menu anyway?


----------



## Candor (Jun 16, 2021)

Well after a quick whip around the os....it's fine I guess? It's like 10 and Vista had a baby.

I don't really care for the new icons or the new start menu but I'll get used to it. Move the start button to the left and yawn.

I'm not really concerned with wallpapers or sounds, they can be changed after all so whatever.

It is quite linux like which I think is what they're going for as further linux integration is coming.

I do use a tablet a lot, so the increased spacing of files in windows is appreciated for finger tapping.

It looks like widgets are back on the menu with "Windows Dashboard". I use rainmeter anyway, but thanks?

Lots of stuff I didn't ask for or greatly care about.


----------



## shk021051 (Jun 16, 2021)

I like it but i care more about performance and new features


----------



## Mussels (Jun 16, 2021)

Candor said:


> Well after a quick whip around the os....it's fine I guess? It's like 10 and Vista had a baby.
> 
> I don't really care for the new icons or the new start menu but I'll get used to it. Move the start button to the left and yawn.
> 
> ...


whats background RAM usage like at idle?


----------



## Candor (Jun 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> whats background RAM usage like at idle?



Running in a VM, it's at about 1.3 to 1.6GB memory usage at idle (next to no programs installed).


----------



## johnpa (Jun 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> whats background RAM usage like at idle?



I have installed both Windows 10 and Windows 11 in VirtualBox, they both use 2GB of RAM when idle, with no programs running.


----------



## claes (Jun 16, 2021)

Will vary with system specs


----------



## Mussels (Jun 16, 2021)

I was just holding out hope that they debloated W11, is all

less background processes, smaller install footprint or whatever... Win 11 being "windows 10 without the garbage" would make it popular, fast


----------



## Candor (Jun 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I was just holding out hope that they debloated W11, is all
> 
> less background processes, smaller install footprint or whatever... Win 11 being "windows 10 without the garbage" would make it popular, fast



Yeah I don't see that as a major focus for them at the moment.

I only see windows becoming increasingly more touch-centric. More moving of stuff from control panel into the settings app until c-p is gone altogether.

And probably more mobile app and linux integrations.


----------



## Marshal_90 (Jun 16, 2021)

It looks horrible!

There is no relation between those ugly folder Icons and the whole OS.

Windows 10X's start menu is not good for desktop PCs, It's difficult to find apps by their Icons. Windows 10 start menu is the best so far.

Icons on the center of the taskbar? What a stupid move. You kinda have to aim for the Start key!

The name is so weird. Windows 11?! Are we living in 2011? Windows 10 was so much cleaner and elegant. If they're tired of Windows 10 just rename it to Windows...

So far I'm so disappointed


----------



## neatfeatguy (Jun 16, 2021)

silentbogo said:


> Those new icons look like my first attempts at SVG pictograms in Inkscape... Current set is at least passable, I hope they'll leave the option to switch back.
> OSXy taskbar is a good thing. I've been using something like this on Ubuntu and older versions of Windows(since XP), but ended up being too lazy to find a solution to realign my app buttons in W10.
> The rest - don't care about and will likely disable. Can't even stand their new weather widget near system tray, which requires you to sign in with MS account in order to change locale and location.
> 
> That's what I thought before, but given their recent history I think Nokia destroyed Nokia. Their refreshed smartphone business was promising, but formally lasted a year with one product lineup cycle. No proper flagships since my Nokia 8, no OLED models, not a hint of "legendary reliability"... everything is sub-mediocre and overpriced, even feature phones.



I hate the taskbar look. I hate giant clutter on the screen. What good are bunch of stupid icons that just litter the work space?

I hate the "Type here to search" spot on the task bar on Windows 10.  It takes up unnecessary space. But if you hide the search bar it doesn't show up when pressing the Windows Key, like it did under Windows 7.....so you have no quick way to search for programs.

I just like, simple, clean looking and easy to navigate without having a ton of giant images/icons shoved in your face. At times I like to navigate with just the keyboard and even times when I know exactly where a file/program is I need I might launch it from the command prompt instead of clicking my way through half a dozen folders. When I first loaded and used Windows 10 it looked like and felt like someone threw up in the start menu....so cluttered with pinned crap it almost made my eyes bleed. That's about the same way I feel when I see my wife boot up her Mac laptop....giant icons at the bottom, her desktop screen cluttered....I even asked her if she uses all those programs along the taskbar at the bottom and she told me that she doesn't and she also doesn't even know what a few of them are, but just leaves them there.


----------



## Wirko (Jun 16, 2021)

Markosz said:


> Absolutely disgusting rounded crap with tons of mobile elements.
> MS is absolute shameless liars, they said Win 10 would be the last.


You can make Win 10 the last one *for you* - in which case, MS didn't lie to you.


----------



## micropage7 (Jun 16, 2021)

TheEndIsNear said:


> Dammit if they are going to make it like a Mac I'm going to Linux


and it happened again, when M$ like want to follow the other coz of the looks, M$ like never learn from Windows phone that following android and IOS
now they look like following apple, although they have their own character



Fouquin said:


> So. Much. Padding.
> 
> Every icon is a million miles apart and you can't tighten the grid. Just wasting screen space for the hell of it.
> 
> View attachment 204046


yeah wasting space and looks like filling the space is a new trend for M$, suddenly i miss the old school layout than this one


----------



## Blueberries (Jun 16, 2021)

Weird how these leaks happen every generation and always just before the official launch



Mussels said:


> I was just holding out hope that they debloated W11, is all
> 
> less background processes, smaller install footprint or whatever... Win 11 being "windows 10 without the garbage" would make it popular, fast


I can't wait to find the 50 new registry keys I need to change in this build /s


----------



## silentbogo (Jun 16, 2021)

Blueberries said:


> Weird how these leaks happen every generation and always just before the official launch


MSDN closed testing. Back in a day I used to sign up and participate in things like that (did it for Vista and 7).


----------



## kane nas (Jun 16, 2021)

win 11


----------



## biffzinker (Jun 16, 2021)

kane nas said:


> win 11


How many bugs could there be if it’s only a new coat of paint for the GUI?


----------



## Wirko (Jun 16, 2021)

micropage7 said:


> yeah wasting space and looks like filling the space is a new trend for M$, suddenly i miss the old school layout than this one


Low information density. It's not new and it's not coming just from MS, although they have been a major contributor since Win 8. Hey, even in Win 7, one of the most annoying UI changes was larger line spacing in Explorer's file list. (And that wasn't enough, they managed to screw up a few other things too in that same file list).


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Jun 16, 2021)

FreedomEclipse said:


> TBH. This Ui smells like it was a Ui designed for mobile devices.


Because they took it from Windows 10X



Chane said:


> nope, it better have an option to move start to the left. I hate this centered look.


It does. It's in the options settings.


----------



## noel_fs (Jun 16, 2021)

Lionheart said:


> Bring back the Windows 7 transparent shiny gloss to the windows/taskbar, looked way better than this current matt flat look we have now days.


glossy is fucking awful makes me want to puke (i do agree w7 theme was godlike) but it isnt nowdays. W10 needs a a rework aiming for material but currently its not but could be much worse so let it be, there is a chance they make something awful. The new icon are absolute garbage, w7 i think still wins in that department nowdays, a little too curvy maybe for today but thats an easy fix.


----------



## Gundem (Jun 16, 2021)

Busy trying to get 98 running on my Epox


----------



## R0H1T (Jun 16, 2021)

Wow some of the comments on this threads are hilarious, it's like listening to your grandparents complaining about ye olde XP or *win98 *


NuCore said:


> Looks like macOS beta (dock) but more primitive


Primitive how?


----------



## Lycanwolfen (Jun 16, 2021)

Well been testing it in a VM, so far problems I found.

1. Cannot drop and drag icons into the taskbar you have to now right click on the icon and pin it only.
2. Got control panel up in power settings under adavanced Processor control completely gone. - Was able to restore some in regedit
3. Under system and about you have to configure power settings for each app installed.
4. Windows simple notepad is replaced with a windows store version. Also the old version is there but MS wont allow you to use it for text files unless you install there new version from store. Ouch
5. In powershell on provisioned apps you now cannot uninstalled the Desktop app installer which is tied to the store. So in terms they are controling whats installed and not you.
6. Control panel Administrator Tools now renamed to Windows Tools
7. Right click on taskbar Task Manager is now removed. Only access is in Windows tools now.
8. The whole OS is using MS edge webview for its shell and pretty interface. Even if you have chrome as default browsers it all still runs. I don't care what MS says Edge is chromium and google owns the source code. Also with the desktop interface now tied to Edge the virus's are going to rule this OS. - Update on this if you turn off the UAC in the regedit and reboot it stops the webview as its tied to the Store. 
9. One Drive is installed by default with no asking if you want it.

Just some of the issues I see already.

In my opinion MS is going back to the old bad business practices that got them in trouble in the first place. Not listening to the consumer forcing products unto your computer and taking away your control more and more. Most of all my systems now run Linux and I am very happy using them because I have the control not a company.

Also now with Edge being intergrated into the OS open up a whole new can of worms with virus's and security reasons. That was MS's biggest mistake was intergrating IE into there OS's.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 16, 2021)

Lycanwolfen said:


> Well been testing it in a VM, so far problems I found.
> 
> 1. Cannot drop and drag icons into the taskbar you have to now right click on the icon and pin it only.
> 2. Got control panel up in power settings under adavanced Processor control completely gone. - Was able to restore some in regedit
> ...


Well they have to have something to add back in for 12!.
I am surprised by the details some of you note, not you per say I think those shocking omissions personally more line spacing..
I would expect if you don't set app performance per application it has defaults though?!.


----------



## dyonoctis (Jun 16, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> I want to see their stats that show many users disabled it after first boot.


The people who disabled it are also the people that they have the fewer data from   (telemetry being disabled etc...) I personally don't mind, it's just an inoffensive widget on the taskbar :


----------



## redzo (Jun 16, 2021)

What a bunch of garbage monopolist greedy scums,

They went from the great start menu(winxp < vista < 7) to that abomination(windows 8.1 start menu) and then getting back to 7 in very small steps with 10.
MS is just a monopoly. They hired hipster managers and UI designers. They don't give a damn about user experience and their userbase.

Then again, what are we talking about: they're pushing updates to 10 and changing it like their is no tomorrow.
Hell, we could be running windows 11 right now. They were actually right when they said "the last version of windows".

The desktop is just an interface, and it's the easiest thing to change, a freaking theme and that is it. 
They just don't care: monopoly once again.
those sandy bridge motherboards fail to die: I've got a great idea, boss: a new OS, new OS sales!


----------



## Lycanwolfen (Jun 16, 2021)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> Well they have to have something to add back in for 12!.
> I am surprised by the details some of you note, not you per say I think those shocking omissions personally more line spacing..
> I would expect if you don't set app performance per application it has defaults though?!.



I'm a network Administrator for many companies around the world. So first thing I test is settings easy access to things. Control and what I know users will complain about. Microsoft never beta tests OS's to Network Administrators or Technician's because we are the one that find all the problems. No they beta test their OS's to complete morons that have no idea how things work. They only see oooo its pretty.

Small Update. I was able to write a sudo command in the powershell to delete the entire OS in one key stroke. Yay that was easy


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 16, 2021)

Lycanwolfen said:


> I'm a network Administrator for many companies around the world. So first thing I test is settings easy access to things. Control and what I know users will complain about. Microsoft never beta tests OS's to Network Administrators or Technician's because we are the one that find all the problems. No they beta test their OS's to complete morons that have no idea how things work. They only see oooo its pretty.
> 
> Small Update. I was able to write a sudo command in the powershell to delete the entire OS in one key stroke. Yay that was easy


It is horrible to see what they've done in some areas , the control panels especially.


----------



## Lionheart (Jun 16, 2021)

noel_fs said:


> glossy is fucking awful makes me want to puke (i do agree w7 theme was godlike) but it isnt nowdays. W10 needs a a rework aiming for material but currently its not but could be much worse so let it be, there is a chance they make something awful. The new icon are absolute garbage, w7 i think still wins in that department nowdays, a little too curvy maybe for today but thats an easy fix.


 "glossy is fucking awful makes me want to puke" As does this part of your comment, relax. But yes Win7 might not look the most modern now days but there's still something about it I like. I like my windows how I like my women, curvy...........


----------



## Mussels (Jun 16, 2021)

neatfeatguy said:


> I hate the taskbar look. I hate giant clutter on the screen. What good are bunch of stupid icons that just litter the work space?
> 
> I hate the "Type here to search" spot on the task bar on Windows 10.  It takes up unnecessary space. But if you hide the search bar it doesn't show up when pressing the Windows Key, like it did under Windows 7.....so you have no quick way to search for programs.
> 
> I just like, simple, clean looking and easy to navigate without having a ton of giant images/icons shoved in your face. At times I like to navigate with just the keyboard and even times when I know exactly where a file/program is I need I might launch it from the command prompt instead of clicking my way through half a dozen folders. When I first loaded and used Windows 10 it looked like and felt like someone threw up in the start menu....so cluttered with pinned crap it almost made my eyes bleed. That's about the same way I feel when I see my wife boot up her Mac laptop....giant icons at the bottom, her desktop screen cluttered....I even asked her if she uses all those programs along the taskbar at the bottom and she told me that she doesn't and she also doesn't even know what a few of them are, but just leaves them there.


In w10, the moment you type with the start menu open it brings up a search field


and yeah i've been asked to repair and fix a few macs for friends and the damned OWNERS dont even know how to do basic tasks... ugh


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 16, 2021)

Blueberries said:


> Weird how these leaks happen every generation and always just before the official launch
> 
> 
> I can't wait to find the 50 new registry keys I need to change in this build /s


Hi,
Well seeing they just dropped 21h1 don't see a new windows until 22h1 or in English 2022 January-June maybe 21h2 though they are that compulsive at times lol


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jun 16, 2021)

*Laughs in Linux*


----------



## Liquid Cool (Jun 17, 2021)

I prefer just a simple start menu. 



That's why I use linux.  

Microsoft is a monopoly and should be regulated.  I find it quite disconcerting that Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google were recently listed by quite a few members of Congress as monopolies(a little later to the party ?), but Microsoft wasn't on the list.  This company...starting with Windows 10 is the biggest offender?

Hell...If linux wasn't there...I'd use OS/2.   

,

Liquid Cool


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Jun 17, 2021)

Easy Rhino said:


> *Laughs in Linux*





Liquid Cool said:


> I prefer just a simple start menu.



Same.





I know I'll get used to whatever they vomit up, but Microsoft's 'change for the sake of change' has gotten really old.


----------



## TheOne (Jun 17, 2021)

Watched some YouTube videos, I like some the UI changes, not a fan of others, indifferent about some, and still pessimistic given it was originally intended for dual screen mobile devices, overall I'm interested to see the RTM version and what kind of performance and stability it will have.



Easy Rhino said:


> *Laughs in Linux*



Makes you wonder what a laughing penguin sounds like.


----------



## TxGrin (Jun 17, 2021)

FYI Windows 11 will activate using windows 7 key


----------



## Mussels (Jun 17, 2021)

TheOne said:


> Makes you wonder what a laughing penguin sounds like.


----------



## Caring1 (Jun 17, 2021)

Easy Rhino said:


> *Laughs in Linux*


So what command do you have to type in for that?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 17, 2021)

LTT just saw it. Linus seems to have missed the requirement for TPM2.0 and SecureBoot.. He used a VM, then used unraid...


----------



## Mussels (Jun 17, 2021)

LTT always does things in fuckaround complicated ways


And the first comment is what you said about secureboot and TPM fixing that issue.... but nah they cant retest that, they need their janky weird experience


----------



## C74EU (Jun 17, 2021)

weekendgeek said:


> Same.
> 
> View attachment 204225
> 
> I know I'll get used to whatever they vomit up, but Microsoft's 'change for the sake of change' has gotten really old.



BSD with KDE Plasma tweaked to look similar to Garuda Linux


----------



## dyonoctis (Jun 17, 2021)

neatfeatguy said:


> I hate the taskbar look. I hate giant clutter on the screen. What good are bunch of stupid icons that just litter the work space?
> 
> I hate the "Type here to search" spot on the task bar on Windows 10.  It takes up unnecessary space. But if you hide the search bar it doesn't show up when pressing the Windows Key, like it did under Windows 7.....so you have no quick way to search for programs.
> 
> I just like, simple, clean looking and easy to navigate without having a ton of giant images/icons shoved in your face. At times I like to navigate with just the keyboard and even times when I know exactly where a file/program is I need I might launch it from the command prompt instead of clicking my way through half a dozen folders. When I first loaded and used Windows 10 it looked like and felt like someone threw up in the start menu....so cluttered with pinned crap it almost made my eyes bleed. That's about the same way I feel when I see my wife boot up her Mac laptop....giant icons at the bottom, her desktop screen cluttered....I even asked her if she uses all those programs along the taskbar at the bottom and she told me that she doesn't and she also doesn't even know what a few of them are, but just leaves them there.


Launching something from the cmd prompt already tells a lot about your user profile... it's not uncommon to see people who are expert in their field having a hard time to make things simple for the average guy.
What you see as "clean and simple" might be intimidating for someone else. There's a reason as to why the GUI replaced the text interface . There's a lot of people who feel more comfortable with visual cues. (mainly talking about the taskbar, I agree that the start menu can be overpowering and somewhat redundant)
If a macOS desktop is cluttered, it means that the user is using it as a folder, unlike windows, macOS doesn't automatically put shortcut on the desktop

Power users are always going to be unhappy with a mainstream product, you want windows to be handled like a nervous sport car without assistance, but the reality of things is that windows is just a prius that anyone must be able to drive without feeling that they are "fighting" with the car.

(although Windows UI/UX isn't perfect, and is still quirky in some ways, but making windows barebone and somewhat cryptic isn't a good move either)


----------



## Ja.KooLit (Jun 17, 2021)

C74EU said:


> BSD with KDE Plasma tweaked to look similar to Garuda Linux
> 
> View attachment 204249View attachment 204250


you should post that here









						The Linux screenshots thread
					

Working on something different tonight.




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## kayjay010101 (Jun 17, 2021)

neatfeatguy said:


> I hate the "Type here to search" spot on the task bar on Windows 10.  It takes up unnecessary space. But if you hide the search bar it doesn't show up when pressing the Windows Key, like it did under Windows 7.....so you have no quick way to search for programs.


You can just press the windows button and start typing. It couldn't be any easier.



InhaleOblivion said:


> If I wanted Mac OS...I'd use I don't know...Mac OS.


Would if I could, but Macs are terrible hardware-wise and Apple makes it very difficult to use it on a regular computer.


----------



## Chomiq (Jun 17, 2021)

Guys, we already know Linux can look cleaner than Windows, we don't need to be reminded of that.


----------



## InhaleOblivion (Jun 17, 2021)

This is Microsoft's attempt to get millennials to want to keep Windows laptops instead of the Macbook and Chromebook variants that they tend to prefer.  Hilariously, their MacOS+Ubuntu+KDE abomination will not bring the kids back.  We're basically getting Windows 10X with headaches from functionality being removed, and more reliance on their wannabe iPhone/Android app store.


----------



## Ja.KooLit (Jun 17, 2021)

neatfeatguy said:


> I hate the taskbar look. I hate giant clutter on the screen. What good are bunch of stupid icons that just litter the work space?
> 
> I hate the "Type here to search" spot on the task bar on Windows 10.  It takes up unnecessary space. But if you hide the search bar it doesn't show up when pressing the Windows Key, like it did under Windows 7.....so you have no quick way to search for programs.
> 
> I just like, simple, clean looking and easy to navigate without having a ton of giant images/icons shoved in your face. At times I like to navigate with just the keyboard and even times when I know exactly where a file/program is I need I might launch it from the command prompt instead of clicking my way through half a dozen folders. When I first loaded and used Windows 10 it looked like and felt like someone threw up in the start menu....so cluttered with pinned crap it almost made my eyes bleed. That's about the same way I feel when I see my wife boot up her Mac laptop....giant icons at the bottom, her desktop screen cluttered....I even asked her if she uses all those programs along the taskbar at the bottom and she told me that she doesn't and she also doesn't even know what a few of them are, but just leaves them there.


i dont know what is it you want but you ca  resize the search bar to appear a search icon only. 2nd of all, if windows key does not make the start menu appear, you use windows key S for search or Windows key R to start.

If you want simplicity, you can try linux with kde. Just type in the keyboard and krunner will pick it up and if you dont have the software, it will automtically bring you to discover and either install or not. if it is installed, program will run


----------



## owlsplosion (Jun 17, 2021)

matar said:


> Does it improve FPS that's all we care about.


I imagine the final version will have some new minor feature version of DirectX that they totally can't backport to Win10 because <insert made up reason here>.


----------



## Imsochobo (Jun 17, 2021)

lZKoce said:


> Not sure what you mean. Company I work for, switched to Teams a couple of months ago as their main webex service. Have been using it at work every single day since then. Haven't experienced any major issues with it.



Just wait, it gets worse and worse as time goes on, I'm signed into multiple devices, some chat messages show up on only one device, some calls are received only on another.
It's not the worst MS have done but it smells lync framework and MS changing buttons back and forth is getting annoying!


----------



## svan71 (Jun 17, 2021)

Does 11 spy on me more or less ? Thats my only concern.


----------



## qubit (Jun 17, 2021)

Oh no, I hate rounded corners. The sharp corners were the one thing I really liked about W10 over W7 when it comes to the UI.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 17, 2021)

Mussels said:


> LTT always does things in fuckaround complicated ways


True, but in this situation, he got the job done....

It would seem there's another way to do it.








						How To Install Windows 11
					

Microsoft's most anticipated Windows 11 operating system leaked! Here is how to install Windows 11 onto any PC. Upgrade to Windows 11 from 10 for free.




					www.androidsage.com
				



Upgrading from a Win10 install is supposed to work on bare hardware, which I'm going to try right now. I'll keep you all posted if you wish...



svan71 said:


> Does 11 spy on me more or less ? Thats my only concern.


Don't know yet. I will be looking at those aspects of the current version of 11.



qubit said:


> Oh no, I hate rounded corners. The sharp corners were the one thing I really liked about W10 over W7 when it comes to the UI.


Can't disagree nor with you there. The rounded, organic look of Windows 7 is one of the things I loved about it.


----------



## kayjay010101 (Jun 17, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Can't disagree nor with you there. The rounded, organic look of Windows 7 is one of the things I loved about it.


Agreed, rounded edges is more aesthetically pleasing IMO


----------



## CountMike (Jun 17, 2021)

For clean, bare metal installation, make sure that you have TPM enabled in BIOS.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 17, 2021)

Well, this didn't take long...



Looks like we'll have to wait for the beta ISO's to hit. Hopefully Microsoft devs will remove this dumbass nonsense...

@Microsoft
Please note, the option to use TPM & SecureBoot should ALWAYS be the choice of the user, not a requirement. The reason is very simple, each of those "features" can and do cause a great many problems for ease of use. Most people do NOT need such features. This crap is a deal breaker! Make it a choice, *not a requirement*.


----------



## CountMike (Jun 17, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Well, this didn't take long...
> View attachment 204314
> Looks like we'll have to wait for the beta ISO's to hit. Hopefully Microsoft devs will remove this dumbass nonsense...
> 
> ...


TPM is important for security, I believe that it may have been an error on their part because once W11 is installed it's not required any more.  It's also not requred or used  when installed in a VM.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 17, 2021)

CountMike said:


> TPM is important for security


For environments that need that level of security, perhaps. MOST people and Windows user do not need such, nor do they need SecureBoot.


CountMike said:


> I believe that it may have been an error on their part because once W11 is installed it's not required any more. It's also not requred or used when installed in a VM.


Good points. It's likely is a programmatical error.


----------



## CountMike (Jun 17, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> For environments that need that level of security, perhaps. MOST people and Windows user do not need such, nor do they need SecureBoot.
> 
> Good points. It likely is a programmatical error.


A friend of mine just copied whole Sources folder from W10 ISO to W11 ISO and installed without problem. What I did was to install W11 in a VM, make full disk backup and restored it to an empty SSD. 
My MB, an Asus prime x470 pro does have TPM module built in however it was set to use a descrete TPM module (external to MB) and not to internal, built in, firmware module. Now when set as FW it should install without problem.


----------



## The red spirit (Jun 17, 2021)

rutra80 said:


> MS is so insecure, like a teenage copycat. They have the most mature, best OS in the world but they keep leading it like a sheep would lead a lion. With W8 they were trying to make it a mobile, touch operated OS, faking an iOS and Android with their stores. Now they're trying to downgrade it to a macOS. Seems like it will follow the rule that every 2nd release sucks.


Every 2nd? It seems that every release since 7 has sucked or was really meh. I wonder if there will ever be times when Microsoft actually makes an OS that people like to use.


----------



## CountMike (Jun 17, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> Every 2nd? It seems that every release since 7 has sucked or was really meh. I wonder if there will ever be times when Microsoft actually makes an OS that people like to use.


What the heck was so much better with W7 ? Nothing !!!


----------



## Shrek (Jun 17, 2021)

How To Install Windows 11 (androidsage.com)

"Initially, users found out the leaked Windows 11 ISO would only install on Virtualbox. Looks like the ISO was designed that way. Installation on barebone hardware was not possible. However, it is now possible to create a bootable ISO file by tweaking some files."


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Jun 17, 2021)

Liquid Cool said:


> I prefer just a simple start menu.
> 
> View attachment 204213
> 
> ...





weekendgeek said:


> Same.
> 
> View attachment 204225
> 
> I know I'll get used to whatever they vomit up, but Microsoft's 'change for the sake of change' has gotten really old.


For me personally, Linux looks way too flat. It looks like it's trying to be modern with an OS feel that resembles Windows 2000. I just cant do it. 

And it's overly complicated for my liking.


----------



## CountMike (Jun 17, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> How To Install Windows 11 (androidsage.com)
> 
> "Initially, users found out the leaked Windows 11 ISO would only install on Virtualbox. Looks like the ISO was designed that way. Installation on barebone hardware was not possible. However, it is now possible to create a bootable ISO file by tweaking some files."


Once TPU issue is solved, I assure you it installs barebone and runs fine. One runaround for TPM issue is to copy Sources folder from W10 iso to FAT32 USB with ISO contents from W11. 
I'm just about to upgrade my W10 Insider Dev to W11.


----------



## The red spirit (Jun 17, 2021)

CountMike said:


> What the heck was so much better with W7 ? Nothing !!!


Beyond DirectX 12 and nicer task manager, Windows 10 brought nothing to me. Windows 8 and 8.1 weren't great releases. And if you are like that, if Microsoft wanted to, they could just add technical features to Windows 2000 and make it modern, therefore all those new features are likely to be implemented regardless of Windows version update and the only new version changes that are completely tied to new release have been UI changes. And pretty much since Windows 2000, there barely have been any changes that actually made Windows usage easier, faster or nicer. Windows already had a perfect computer UI and they only needed to refresh it to make it look modern in order to attract noobs that can barely find power button. Ever since 7, there has been less and less incentive to upgrade and Windows 10 was at that point, where I thought that maybe it's really not worth it. Windows 11 as it currently is makes me really think that staying with 10 may be OK. Upgrading Windows version is a major pain in ass and takes pretty much whole day. It's an unpleasant process and it's not something that is really worth doing just for new UI. They better add some truly meaningful features or it's no bueno.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 17, 2021)

CountMike said:


> What the heck was so much better with W7 ? Nothing !!!


Your opinion, most don't agree with. Windows 7 was excellent, easily Microsoft's finest OS version.


----------



## CountMike (Jun 17, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> Beyond DirectX 12 and nicer task manager, Windows 10 brought nothing to me. Windows 8 and 8.1 weren't great releases. And if you are like that, if Microsoft wanted to, they could just add technical features to Windows 2000 and make it modern, therefore all those new features are likely to be implemented regardless of Windows version update and the only new version changes that are completely tied to new release have been UI changes. And pretty much since Windows 2000, there barely have been any changes that actually made Windows usage easier, faster or nicer. Windows already had a perfect computer UI and they only needed to refresh it to make it look modern in order to attract noobs that can barely find power button. Ever since 7, there has been less and less incentive to upgrade and Windows 10 was at that point, where I thought that maybe it's really not worth it. Windows 11 as it currently is makes me really think that staying with 10 may be OK. Upgrading Windows version is a major pain in ass and takes pretty much whole day. It's an unpleasant process and it's not something that is really worth doing just for new UI. They better add some truly meaningful features or it's no bueno.


Could have, should have but they didn't and W7 had played well while it lasted. Beside Linux I always run previous and new windows on same machine at least for a while until new Windows get established enough to stand alone. That way I can have good comparison between each. I briefly had W8/8.1 but switched it for W10 within fist month  when W10 test version came out. It was so close to 8.1 that I saw no reason to keep 8.1 and UI pleased me more. 
In any case, I was always going for for performance and W10 outstriped 7 by good margin as hardware got better.



lexluthermiester said:


> Your opinion, most don't agree with. Windows 7 was excellent, easily Microsoft's finest OS version.


My experience with both and that "Most" is just BS and highly disputable.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 17, 2021)

CountMike said:


> My experience with both and that "Most" is just BS and highly disputable.


Your experience is yours alone. It took more than 4 years for Windows 10 to overtake Windows 7 in worldwide adoption in both common use and gaming. Those stats are easily found. Your opinion is easily contestable. 

However, we're off-topic. This thread is about Windows 11, not 7.


----------



## Shrek (Jun 17, 2021)

The free version of WinToUSB will install the Home version (not Pro) to a hard drive; seems like the easiest way to take Windows 11 for a spin.


----------



## Dyatlov A (Jun 17, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Your experience is yours alone. It took more than 4 years for Windows 10 to overtake Windows 7 in worldwide adoption in both common use and gaming. Those stats are easily found. Your opinion is easily contestable.
> 
> However, we're off-topic. This thread is about Windows 11, not 7.



And when Windows 11 will be done, Win 7 will overtake again Win 10 .


----------



## TheOne (Jun 17, 2021)

In my opinion Windows 2000 and Windows 7 are the best examples of the Windows operating system, I think they are hoping the more pure version of Windows 10, 10X/11, will be as popular as the final revised version of Vista, 7.


----------



## arunmcops (Jun 17, 2021)

FreedomEclipse said:


> an ASUS VivoBook Flip TM420 is about $392 here. Its not a full on tablet by any means but it will run windows


BTW there is no tablet mode in this build.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 17, 2021)

Dyatlov A said:


> And when Windows 11 will be done, Win 7 will overtake again Win 10 .


THAT would be funny. Assuming Windows 11 is worthy... So for it LOOKS good but until people have had a chance to test it out in a more complete form the jury will remain out..


----------



## TheOne (Jun 17, 2021)

So is there any indication on how old this build is?


----------



## quadibloc (Jun 18, 2021)

Intel and AMD are both planning to release processors similar to the big.LITTLE ones from ARM, and as noted in the article, Windows 11 will feature a new scheduler which will allow those procesors to be properly utilized.  That's a positive change, even if the best thing they could do to the user interface would be to bring it back to the one we had with Windows 7.


----------



## RealKGB (Jun 18, 2021)

First impressions.
1. Dang it, Microsoft, couldn't you have named it something more interesting than "Windows 11"?
Give us our cool names back! Like Windows Vista again! Windows Marvell or something.
2. Way too much padding. I like things close together to not waste space. I hope there is a way to change that.
3. Have they fixed the Control Panel v. Settings war yet?
4. Other than security, UI, and scheduler changes (for big.LITTLE), is there any reason to upgrade? Is MS bringing DirectX 13 or something to compel us to upgrade/

Second impressions (after reading the thread):
1. The whole thing is running on Edge or something? Heck no! I already have to install Edge Deflector to avoid running Edge whenever I accidentally search something in Windows' search bar. Microsoft, so far you're not doing so well.
2. Notepad gone? More points gone. I get that this is a dev release, but still. Notepad is amazing and I want it to stay.
3. I hope you can uninstall OneDrive still. I hate OneDrive since I want to be able to use the stuff on my Users folder whether I have Internet or not.
4. It seems they have not fixed the Control Panel v. Settings war.

Third impressions (after running the leaked ISO in a VM):
1. The OneDrive installer runs on startup. When running on a single core of a Ryzen 5 3600, it eats up 70% of the CPU.
2. WAY too much padding. This opinion has been reinforced. I can fit three file entries on W10 File Explorer where W11's File Explorer fits two file entries. I hope there is a way to change this.
3. I hate the new File Explorer icons. The old archive, folder, Documents/Downloads/Videos/Pictures/Music were better. I don't mind the new drive icon pictures though. They look nice, and were due for an update. The rest of the icons though were FINE and should not have been touched.
4. I would like Aero Glass back.


----------



## johnpa (Jun 18, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> First impressions.
> 1. Dang it, Microsoft, couldn't you have named it something more interesting than "Windows 11"?
> Give us our cool names back! Like Windows Vista again! Windows Marvell or something.
> 2. Way too much padding. I like things close together to not waste space. I hope there is a way to change that.
> 3. Have they fixed the Control Panel v. Settings war yet?



Control panel still exists.



RealKGB said:


> 4. Other than security, UI, and scheduler changes (for big.LITTLE), is there any reason to upgrade? Is MS bringing DirectX 13 or something to compel us to upgrade/
> 
> Second impressions (after reading the thread):
> 1. The whole thing is running on Edge or something? Heck no! I already have to install Edge Deflector to avoid running Edge whenever I accidentally search something in Windows' search bar. Microsoft, so far you're not doing so well.



Edge works the same as in Windows 10.




RealKGB said:


> 2. Notepad gone? More points gone. I get that this is a dev release, but still. Notepad is amazing and I want it to stay.



The Notepad still exists.



RealKGB said:


> 3. I hope you can uninstall OneDrive still. I hate OneDrive since I want to be able to use the stuff on my Users folder whether I have Internet or not.



OneDrive can be uninstalled.


----------



## Marshal_90 (Jun 18, 2021)

After working with the so called "New" OS I can say that the new start menu is not that bad BUT, releasing a new OS just reminds me of the 2015 when they released the Windows 10.

We're in 2021 and still it's not stable as Windows 7! After all these years It still has some bugs. 

So I would've been be so much happier if the new OS was just another feature pack update or something for Windows 10.


----------



## lZKoce (Jun 18, 2021)

I just hope there will be some cheap way to upgrade. Some of us paid full price back in the days of Win10.


----------



## TheUn4seen (Jun 18, 2021)

Bright colors, a ton of padding and A LOT of wasted screen space. The UI is obviously designed for touch input and people who are, let's say, less intellectually developed. What I mean is, it's probably good for people who only scroll through Facebook with their greasy fingers on their touchy-feely toys, not so much for doing actual work.

I think Microsoft wants to push the serious crowd to Linux and leave Windows as a dumbed-down OS for the uneducated masses, in other words make it another MacOS. I have to say I'm fine with that, I consider Windows to to be an "OS for playing games and unimportant Internet browsing" since Windows 8.


----------



## johnpa (Jun 18, 2021)

lZKoce said:


> I just hope there will be some cheap way to upgrade. Some of us paid full price back in the days of Win10.



I have read Windows 11 will be available as a free upgrade to all Windows 10 users.


----------



## lZKoce (Jun 18, 2021)

TheUn4seen said:


> Bright colors, a ton of padding and A LOT of wasted screen space. The UI is obviously designed for touch input and people who are, let's say, less intellectually developed. What I mean is, it's probably good for people who only scroll through Facebook with their greasy fingers on their touchy-feely toys, not so much for doing actual work.
> 
> I think Microsoft wants to push the serious crowd to Linux and leave Windows as a dumbed-down OS for the uneducated masses, in other words make it another MacOS. I have to say I'm fine with that, I consider Windows to to be an "OS for playing games and unimportant Internet browsing" since Windows 8.



I am not the one to judge, but I think this is way too harsh. I am an average Joe and by no means I can write a code or anything. I tried Linux for a full month on my laptop. I chose Linux Mint one of the basic editions. Hands down it is impressive for what I saw, but I was tired of constantly looking for a command to copy and paste so I can get my work done. And device's support is not always stellar, depending on what particular setup you have. I do like control (coming from a person customized his android phone from the filesystem and phone cache to whatever you name it), but when I spend more time fixing my PC than using it....I am sorry but I actually like less control in some situations. You are saying people using Windows are not doing anything productive on their PC? Billions of people, programming, designing, CAD/CAM, you name it....OS and PC are just a tool, like a knife. Some people save lives with a knife, and some people take lives with a knife. That doesn't make the knife a bad one.


----------



## CountMike (Jun 18, 2021)

TheUn4seen said:


> Bright colors, a ton of padding and A LOT of wasted screen space. The UI is obviously designed for touch input and people who are, let's say, less intellectually developed. What I mean is, it's probably good for people who only scroll through Facebook with their greasy fingers on their touchy-feely toys, not so much for doing actual work.
> 
> I think Microsoft wants to push the serious crowd to Linux and leave Windows as a dumbed-down OS for the uneducated masses, in other words make it another MacOS. I have to say I'm fine with that, I consider Windows to to be an "OS for playing games and unimportant Internet browsing" since Windows 8.


Still same comments since W8 ??


----------



## kayjay010101 (Jun 18, 2021)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> For me personally, Linux looks way too flat. It looks like it's trying to be modern with an OS feel that resembles Windows 2000. I just cant do it.
> 
> And it's overly complicated for my liking.


You do realize Linux isn't an OS? It's a _type _of OS. There are so many different versions of Linux that saying they all look like one thing is absurd. 
Overly complicated I will agree with in _most _distros. From an end-user perspective being expected to understand the file structure and commands in terminal isn't exactly great. Ubuntu however does a great job of streamlining this so most users never even have to touch the terminal. And if you do, it would be for the same reasons a Windows user would have to open the command prompt. I think it's more of a case of you're used to Windows, so it's not complicated to you. You have years and years of experience with the philosophy and way of thinking that Windows has. With Linux, that is very different. Almost everything is done in a different way, some well and some bad. But it's for sure something you would need to acclamate to and get used to. From an outside perspective it does look complicated, but so would Windows if you'd never used it.


----------



## Prima.Vera (Jun 18, 2021)

DirectSound3D. Where is it??


----------



## dyonoctis (Jun 18, 2021)

TheUn4seen said:


> Bright colors, a ton of padding and A LOT of wasted screen space. The UI is obviously designed for touch input and people who are, let's say, less intellectually developed. What I mean is, it's probably good for people who only scroll through Facebook with their greasy fingers on their touchy-feely toys, not so much for doing actual work.
> 
> I think Microsoft wants to push the serious crowd to Linux and leave Windows as a dumbed-down OS for the uneducated masses, in other words make it another MacOS. I have to say I'm fine with that, I consider Windows to to be an "OS for playing games and unimportant Internet browsing" since Windows 8.


So a good Interface is an interface that is mentally challenging ?


----------



## arunmcops (Jun 18, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> The free version of WinToUSB will install the Home version (not Pro) to a hard drive; seems like the easiest way to take Windows 11 for a spin.


Because ei.cfg is missing in sources folder.


----------



## biffzinker (Jun 18, 2021)

RealKGB said:


> 2. Notepad gone? More points gone. I get that this is a dev release, but still. Notepad is amazing and I want it to stay.


Notepad has been turned into a UWP App starting with Windows 11.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 18, 2021)

Marshal_90 said:


> So I would've been be so much happier if the new OS was just another feature pack update or something for Windows 10.


I can't agree with this. Windows 10 has earned itself a reputation and not a good one. Microsoft is correct trying to leave it behind. The key point is that they need to get A WHOLE LOT right for Windows 11 to shine and stand above the gloom cast by Windows 10.


----------



## 27MaD (Jun 18, 2021)

Tbh i'm looking at the bright side, If it's actually basically Win 10 at least we're having higher chances of having a stable OS at launch, even though Win 10 still isn't 100% stable after 6 years of it's release lol.

I like the new sounds of stuff (Startup, Device plug-in, etc...), The new motions look super nice tbh but i think that's gonna be a pain in the ass for guys low on memory (I'm pretty sure they can be disabled from Performance options>>Visual Effects), Rounded corners look cute.
Idk whether i like the new Start menu or not but that'll show after daily using Win 11 When it's released officially, (Same thing for taskbar and mouse right-click shortcuts).

Personally i'm super hyped for it even though it's not an all new OS, but Win 10 now feels so BORING.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Jun 18, 2021)

I'm running it on my system right now. Everything works as intended, the kernel is 10.0 - so you shouldn't expect any compatibility issues with 10 in general, it's just 10 with a fancy UI. It is feature complete and - so far - stable, been running since the day it leaked and I have not experienced any BSODs or crashes. Everything works, licensing is the same from Windows 10 - it even picks up your 10 license from your Microsoft account and activates silently and seamlessly.

That said, about the UI... I confess I like it, so far. It grew on me. The only thing I do not like is that to invoke the task manager, you need to right click the Windows logo itself rather than anywhere on the taskbar - Ctrl+Shift+Esc still works, as does Windows key+X shortcut.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 19, 2021)

Hi,
Frankly one build is no different than another so 10 to 11 lol so what let the people spin at really nothing except a number change.
If I can't mount the new iso like all other builds to date then I'll pass there's no way I'll clean install.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 19, 2021)

Having spent a few hours using it, I can say without fear of contradiction that this version is not ready for prime-time daily use. It also seems to be going in the direction of further removing some fine-grained controls. For example, the page-file controls seem to be completely missing. Can't use OpenShell with it either. In it's current form it seems like more Microsoft f#$kery.

However, this is an alpha build, so final judgement is not warranted.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Jun 19, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Having spent a few hours using it, I can say without fear of contradiction that this version is not ready for prime-time daily use. It also seems to be going in the direction of further removing some fine-grained controls. For example, the page-file controls seem to be completely missing. Can't use OpenShell with it either. In it's current form it seems like more Microsoft f#$kery.
> 
> However, this is an alpha build, so final judgement is not warranted.



So odd that you're running into that problem, the pagefile controls are present on my system. Typing "system settings" on the search box will bring up the "view advanced system settings" window immediately. The link is also in the same place you'd find it in Windows 10 otherwise, Settings > System > About and on the sidebar, or through Windows key+X.






I must say, I haven't had the slightest issue with it so far.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 19, 2021)

Dr. Dro said:


> So odd that you're running into that problem, the pagefile controls are present on my system. Typing "system settings" on the search box will bring up the "view advanced system settings" window immediately. The link is also in the same place you'd find it in Windows 10 otherwise, Settings > System > About and on the sidebar, or through Windows key+X.
> 
> View attachment 204511
> 
> I must say, I haven't had the slightest issue with it so far.


Hmm. Maybe it was one of the tweaks I made... I'll test what happens when I reverse it.

EDIT: Yup, that was it... That's going to take some experimentation to figure out.


----------



## Tom Sunday (Jun 19, 2021)

What ever the case maybe....any Windows 10 upgrade or proffered Microsoft OS improvement (as big or as small it may look) is geared towards extracting more user information more cleverly and more quickly. It's all about the money and nothing is free. Nor ever will be. Continued "live flowing" informatiion is money and power and here to stay. This will never change and as we continue to be the product. Sorry for the gloom and doom but reality always bites.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 19, 2021)

Tom Sunday said:


> What ever the case maybe....any Windows 10 upgrade or proffered Microsoft OS improvement (as big or as small it may look) is geared towards extracting more user information more cleverly and more quickly. It's all about the money and nothing is free. Nor ever will be. Continued "live flowing" informatiion is money and power and here to stay. This will never change and as we continue to be the product. On a somewhat related matter my Priest aproached me last Sunday wanting to know when I last confessed. Sorry for the gloom and doom but reality always bites.


I have not seen anything that would indicate 11 is doing any more spying than 10. It takes the exact same methods to disable all of it and the services don't have anything extra running. There are a few things changed around but that's all.


----------



## johnpa (Jun 19, 2021)

Besides Windows privacy issues (I have not searched what privacy data it sends, with all settings disabled), I must mention that Microsoft always has to improve Windows, even if Windows is great (like Windows 7).

This is the way companies work, they want to provide new products and get additional money.

For example, today I read about the new Sound Blaster x4 which builds on the successful Sound Blaster x3.

Even if a product is successful, they have to keep creating even better products.


----------



## ps000000 (Jun 19, 2021)

I am waiting how to uncombine group tasks in the taskbar in Windows 11.


----------



## halo9 (Jun 19, 2021)

This seems like nothing more than a marketing stunt by M$ to stay relevant in the market. Just look at all trolling tech ads coming out between the big players, M$ vs Apple, intel vs Apple, everyone vs Apple, lol. All now competing for top spot. How do you stay relevant in the market? Keep bringing stuff out. Recall a few years ago when all news was on AMD and Zen 1/2/3, what was intel bringing out, nothing, but their marketing and PR teams, almost daily press releases about “new” stuff. It even infected TPU. 

We don’t even know what build this leaked ISO is, so I’m not getting caught up in it until an offical build is out. Though it does appear from all the negative comments online that it is an early build as there are many issues still to iron out. But from what can be seen it does seem, at least to me, a half baked attempt to refresh the UI and change the version number as underlying all that it is still Windows 10. Why the change? Marketing, relevance, etc. Gotta appear to be on their game.

Consider this though, Mac OS X (X = 10 of course) came out in 2001 and stayed at version 10 with yearly updates until 2015. What happened in 2015… Windows 10 came out and M$ announced this is the “last version of windows”. So what did Apple do, in 2016 they renamed OSX to macOS, ditch the 10. Marketing, differentiation. Skip a few years ahead and in 2020 Apple releases macOS Big Sur but more importantly it was the first version in nearly 20 years to jump a full version number and became macOS 11. Less than a year later the “last” version of Windows is being updated to version 11. Maybe coincidence, but these are big companies run by marketing departments. It’s all about getting it out there, the money and the “product” will catch up when enough people complain. Look at windows 8/8.1 and the first few years of Windows 10. I don’t believe this was a planned OS update, I believe it was a reaction to the market. A market that’s upset intel with the M1 release and we all know intel and M$ go hand in hand. These are “games” way above our pay grades.

Disclosure I run intel/windows systems and don’t use macs.


----------



## CountMike (Jun 19, 2021)

halo9 said:


> This seems like nothing more than a marketing stunt by M$ to stay relevant in the market. Just look at all trolling tech ads coming out between the big players, M$ vs Apple, intel vs Apple, everyone vs Apple, lol. All now competing for top spot. How do you stay relevant in the market? Keep bringing stuff out. Recall a few years ago when all news was on AMD and Zen 1/2/3, what was intel bringing out, nothing, but their marketing and PR teams, almost daily press releases about “new” stuff. It even infected TPU.
> 
> We don’t even know what build this leaked ISO is, so I’m not getting caught up in it until an offical build is out. Though it does appear from all the negative comments online that it is an early build as there are many issues still to iron out. But from what can be seen it does seem, at least to me, a half baked attempt to refresh the UI and change the version number as underlying all that it is still Windows 10. Why the change? Marketing, relevance, etc. Gotta appear to be on their game.
> 
> ...


Best way is to try it in a VM at least, it doesn't bYte


----------



## Wirko (Jun 19, 2021)

CountMike said:


> Best way is to try it in a VM at least, it doesn't bYte


But doesn't it munch up a licence? It's eight dollars apiece!


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 19, 2021)

CountMike said:


> Best way is to try it in a VM at least, it doesn't bYte


No the best way to try it is on real hardware.


Wirko said:


> But doesn't it munch up a licence? It's eight dollars apiece!


So buy another. Then you'll have one for 10 and one for 11.


----------



## CountMike (Jun 19, 2021)

Wirko said:


> But doesn't it munch up a licence? It's eight dollars apiece!


Lol, you need no license for this, it will last at least until MS releases for good.


----------



## Lycanwolfen (Jun 19, 2021)

Microsoft made more money when they gave users the choice of what they installed. Windows 98SE and Windows 7 you could uninstall the bloat the junk and customize your OS to your tastes. Now more and more Microsoft is becomming the John Deer of OS's. Everything is controled by them no choice of whats installed. Reminds me of the Ford Model T keep building the same product over and over no changes. MS is just pushing people to Linux or other platforms because no one wants a OS they have no control over.  The Edge OS they should call this one because 90% of it is running on a Chromium platform. Heck Google should just make chromium not open source and charge money for there platform then MS would have to pay google for every Windows 11 sold.  Also the latest build needs TPM 2.0 which is almost like Apple with there security chips inside there Computers that ties there MacOS to a hardware chip. MS never learns. Your customers are your money if you do not listen to their demands they will leave for something better. This is why I still run Windows 10 LTSC which I have full control over the OS and what it does. Also no Store no cortana and No Edge Period!.  For all the people that work at Microsoft what if the company told you when buying a car you only get one choice a Honda Civic and no choice of color, wheels, seats, stereo, warrenty options, or anything. I quite sure you would refuse that in a heartbeat. Then why in the hell are you making an Operating System like that!?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 19, 2021)

CountMike said:


> Lol, you need no license for this, it will last at least until MS releases for good.


Incorrect. A key is not required for installation, but it is to use many of the OS system settings.


Lycanwolfen said:


> Now more and more Microsoft is becoming the John Deer of OS's.


No one can argue that, and it's NOT a good thing.


----------



## CountMike (Jun 19, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Incorrect. A key is not required for installation, but it is to use many of the OS system settings.
> 
> No one can argue that, and it's NOT a good thing.


There was always "medicine" for that.


----------



## bobbybluz (Jun 20, 2021)

I finally downloaded an 11 ESD last night but haven't converted it into an .iso yet. I have plenty of spare SSD's to try it on in one of my test mules. Just my own unrequested opinion but M$ should do a redeaux of 7 with the later improved memory management of 8/8.1 & 10. Go back to Areo, get rid of the tinker-toy cell phone look of the later OS's, concentrate on security and system performance. Trim the bloat out ala Enterprise LTSC and make a true enthusiasts version as well as a totally dumbed-down version for their main target market.



CountMike said:


> There was always "medicine" for that.


***cough cough "Aargh, matey" lololol***


----------



## PapaTaipei (Jun 20, 2021)

Dumb frontpage bar looks like a mobile app. Not suited for desktop work.


----------



## CountMike (Jun 20, 2021)

PapaTaipei said:


> Dumb frontpage bar looks like a mobile app. Not suited for desktop work.


"Front page" ??


----------



## Mussels (Jun 20, 2021)

CountMike said:


> "Front page" ??


thats gotta be a language barrier

Papa: It's the Task Bar in english


----------



## GlowingPotato (Jun 21, 2021)

it sucks.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 22, 2021)

GlowingPotato said:


> it sucks.


No it doesn't. It is no worse than Windows 10 and in a few ways a bit better.


----------



## saikamaldoss (Jun 22, 2021)

I did not even want to try it if this is how it look. Its a shame microsoft is copying Mac which is a shame. Also it will be easy for win11 users to migrate to mac due to similarity.. its important for Ms to stick to its root so that they have the advantage of familiarity


----------



## CountMike (Jun 22, 2021)

saikamaldoss said:


> I did not even want to try it if this is how it look. Its a shame microsoft is copying Mac which is a shame. Also it will be easy for win11 users to migrate to mac due to similarity.. its important for Ms to stick to its root so that they have the advantage of familiarity


Everybody is "stealing" from everybody else, whole GUI has a single origin. There are certain trends they are al following.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 22, 2021)

saikamaldoss said:


> Its a shame microsoft is copying Mac which is a shame.


You need to take a closer look and reserve judgment until after it's in a more finished state. I've actually used it. The UI is not at all MACish.. And yes, I use MacOS regularly.



CountMike said:


> whole GUI has a single origin.


Yup, Xerox.


----------



## claes (Jun 23, 2021)

Gotta agree with @lexluthermiester for once. Really, if you’ve ever used a Mac, there is no similarity whatsoever between the dock and the start bar. Your average Windows user will face a significant learning curve moving to a Mac (and vice-versa).

Still disappointed in @btarunr’s comparison... So many uninformed posts unnecessarily invoking MacOS because of a bad take! The start menu is like the finder? I think you meant file explorer or whatever it’s called now, which has always been similar across almost every OS.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 23, 2021)

I've used macs a few times to help the owners with basic tasks "help how do i install VLC?" and nah, apart from optionally being in the center its not like it at all


----------



## HammerOn1024 (Jun 23, 2021)

"News and Interests" is as wanted or necessary as "Clippy".

I'm not a toddler. I need visual duplo blocks like I need an aneurysm: I hate that icon garbage. All it does is take up space on my screen and offers ZERO useful benefit. I may be called a Luddite who misses the command line, but come on... stop with the kindergarten BS already!


----------



## CountMike (Jun 23, 2021)

HammerOn1024 said:


> "News and Interests" is as wanted or necessary as "Clippy".
> 
> I'm not a toddler. I need visual duplo blocks like I need an aneurysm: I hate that icon garbage. All it does is take up space on my screen and offers ZERO useful benefit. I may be called a Luddite who misses the command line, but come on... stop with the kindergarten BS already!


 GUI is all that matters nowadays, if it doesn't look like their phone. millennials wouldn't know what to do with it.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 23, 2021)

CountMike said:


> GUI is all that matters nowadays, if it doesn't look like their phone. millennials wouldn't know what to do with it.


i want to argue but thats what apple is doing, making kids grow up playing games on ipads, to having a phone with the same OS, to school and graphics/video work on what is now the same OS on ipad pro and the M1 macs... It's just not the millenials, it's the gen after them - It's Gen Z and the following Gen Alpha who are doing this


----------



## CountMike (Jun 23, 2021)

Mussels said:


> i want to argue but thats what apple is doing, making kids grow up playing games on ipads, to having a phone with the same OS, to school and graphics/video work on what is now the same OS on ipad pro and the M1 macs... It's just not the millenials, it's the gen after them - It's Gen Z and the following Gen Alpha who are doing this


That reminds me of my story about giving my 3 or 4 year old nephew my Atari 800 with bunch of games on floppy disks. Although he couldn't read he just copied names of games from floppies letter by letter behind Run command (I told him about) and so started and played the games. He wasn't even interested in letters as such but took them as pictures to replicate on the keyboard.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 24, 2021)

Hi,
This is funny 








						Windows 11: It's a glorified theme pack we can all live with
					

Microsoft's decision to dial up the version number has little to do with Windows and everything to do with the pandemic. Can you live with that? Can I live with that? Can businesses and enterprises live with that? Sure we can.




					www.zdnet.com


----------



## TheOne (Jun 24, 2021)

Yeesh, that little snippet from that zdnet article is giving me Tom's Hardware ray tracing flashbacks, also inaccurate if Windows 11 is Windows 10X, which it seem to be if the leak is real.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 24, 2021)

Brian over at TechYesCity showed a very easy way to install Windows 11 flawlessly;









He also did this;








Funny as hell!!

"Is my friend a good friend?" 
Brian TechYesCity 2021


----------



## AsRock (Jun 24, 2021)

From what i been seeing it's just a reskin,  Ching Ching.  Like come on performs just like Win10  yeah right.



Markosz said:


> Absolutely disgusting rounded crap with tons of mobile elements.
> MS is absolute  shameless liars, they said Win 10 would be the last.



That's when they thought they be able to make it a service, it did not work "this" time.


They will just say it has many more security fixes so everyone buys it.


----------



## Atomic77 (Jun 24, 2021)

hmm that figures Microsoft would do something like this. I have a feeling that before long there will be a Windows 12.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 24, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> hmm that figures Microsoft would do something like this. I have a feeling that before long there will be a Windows 12.


Maybe in another 5 years.


----------



## chrcoluk (Jun 24, 2021)

Fouquin said:


> So. Much. Padding.
> 
> Every icon is a million miles apart and you can't tighten the grid. Just wasting screen space for the hell of it.
> 
> View attachment 204046


There is things I like but sadly Microsoft enjoys padding.  The edge UI feels like its built for 4k screens and tablets as an example.

I said in the other thread I hope there is a small icons option for taskbar as they are huge, and yeah I agree on your padding comment as well.



night.fox said:


> guys. It can be activated with windows 10 key  I have tried logging with my old M$ acct, then I used my windows 10 keys to activate
> 
> Did a short video. Taskbar can be changed so it will look like windows 10 and not Mac look



Ouch "use small taskbar icons" has gone.

Those are way too big, right now I have 78 icons on my taskbar, I multitask heavily.


----------



## johnpa (Jun 24, 2021)

Today is the official announcement of Windows 11, 11:00 ET (15:00 UTC/GMT).

It will be available here:









						Experience the Power of Windows 11 OS, Computers, & Apps
					

Explore the versatility of Microsoft’s Windows 11 operating system. Find out how our latest Windows OS gives you more ways to work, play, and create.



					www.microsoft.com


----------



## CountMike (Jun 24, 2021)

Can't wait to see which BS sales pitch they will do this time !!!


----------



## Ja.KooLit (Jun 24, 2021)

chrcoluk said:


> Ouch "use small taskbar icons" has gone.
> 
> Those are way too big, right now I have 78 icons on my taskbar, I multitask heavily.



Yup same noticed. but I think it will change. Will know in few hours


----------



## 27MaD (Jun 24, 2021)

It's official!


----------



## CountMike (Jun 24, 2021)




----------



## Wirko (Jun 24, 2021)

chrcoluk said:


> There is things I like but sadly Microsoft enjoys padding.  The edge UI feels like its built for 4k screens and tablets as an example.
> 
> I said in the other thread I hope there is a small icons option for taskbar as they are huge, and yeah I agree on your padding comment as well.
> 
> ...


Is it still possible to show titles next to the icons, Win95 style? Also, is it still possible to not collapse several instances of the same application into one icon?

I certainly don't multitask heavily, I start feeling lost when I have more than ~10 things open, including all windows, all browser tabs, windows in RDP sessions, everything.


----------



## Ja.KooLit (Jun 24, 2021)

Just want to share with you guys. So now windows 11 is official, been thinking of installing windows 11 on metal.

Anyway, long story short, I checked my bios and it has option for TPM. Selection is firmware TPM and discrete TPM. When it was on discrete TPM, naturally, windows 11 installation prompt that it cannot be installed due to TPM 2.0 not present. But when I choose firmware TPM, didnt get the error.

So check out your mobo bios if there are options of TPM before doing all the "work arounds" that is floating around the web if you decide to install windows 11. If you are curious, my mobo is x570 Asus Crosshair Viii Hero with 3900 XT

Will be installing this weekend on my desktop


----------



## CountMike (Jun 24, 2021)

night.fox said:


> Just want to share with you guys. So now windows 11 is official, been thinking of installing windows 11 on metal.
> 
> Anyway, long story short, I checked my bios and it has option for TPM. Selection is firmware TPM and discrete TPM. When it was on discrete TPM, naturally, windows 11 installation prompt that it cannot be installed due to TPM 2.0 not present. But when I choose firmware TPM, didnt get the error.
> 
> ...


I fell in same trap until I check deeper down in BIOS.(Asus Prime x470 Pro.) fTPM = Firmware.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 25, 2021)

night.fox said:


> Just want to share with you guys. So now windows 11 is official, been thinking of installing windows 11 on metal.
> 
> Anyway, long story short, I checked my bios and it has option for TPM. Selection is firmware TPM and discrete TPM. When it was on discrete TPM, naturally, windows 11 installation prompt that it cannot be installed due to TPM 2.0 not present. But when I choose firmware TPM, didnt get the error.
> 
> ...


thats cause boards support a plug in TPM module as well as the firmware/mobo one


----------



## Ja.KooLit (Jun 25, 2021)

Mussels said:


> thats cause boards support a plug in TPM module as well as the firmware/mobo one


yup. but I wouldnt buy extra module for it.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 25, 2021)

Mussels said:


> thats cause boards support a plug in TPM module as well as the firmware/mobo one


That's not exactly how TPM works. Either a board has it, or it doesn't. For boards that do, there are modules that can be customized and used, but there is no way to give a board TPM if it was not built with support for it.


----------



## Ja.KooLit (Jun 25, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That's not exactly how TPM works. Either a board has it, or it doesn't. For boards that do, there are modules that can be customized and used, but there is no way to give a board TPM if it was not built with support for it.


not necessarily.


----------



## CountMike (Jun 25, 2021)

night.fox said:


> not necessarily.


That's true, most MBs without built in TPM have at least a connector for it. My oldest one GA-990XA-UD3 (rev. 1.1) is like that, had to get and use TPM because of Bitlocker.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 25, 2021)

Toldya


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 25, 2021)

night.fox said:


> not necessarily.





CountMike said:


> That's true, most MBs without built in TPM have at least a connector for it. My oldest one GA-990XA-UD3 (rev. 1.1) is like that, had to get and use TPM because of Bitlocker.


Ah, but that was my point, if a motherboard/OEM system has a port or jack for a TPM module, than the TPM hardware is also present on the board as well as the microcode in the firmware.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 25, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ah, but that was my point, if a motherboard/OEM system has a port or jack for a TPM module, than the TPM hardware is also present on the board as well as the microcode in the firmware.


the BIOS are defaulting to the external module (which is not installed) and thats why we get the error about unsupported, until we go and change that setting


----------



## CountMike (Jun 25, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ah, but that was my point, if a motherboard/OEM system has a port or jack for a TPM module, than the TPM hardware is also present on the board as well as the microcode in the firmware.


No, connector is only one, nothing on MB itself


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 25, 2021)

Hi,
I'm pretty sure my old acer 775 socket board doesn't have any tpm bios setting and likely no socket either and even if it did finding a tpm chip for it would be pretty silly venture lol 
Bitlocker is another feature I have zero interest in using or activating accidentally.


----------



## johnpa (Jun 25, 2021)

Windows 11 supported processors.

AMD: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors

Intel: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...pported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 25, 2021)

Mussels said:


> the BIOS are defaulting to the external module (which is not installed) and thats why we get the error about unsupported, until we go and change that setting





CountMike said:


> No, connector is only one, nothing on MB itself


I think you both misunderstand how the TPM system works. For TPM to work there must be a hardware interface component built into the board and the TPM software built into the BIOS/UEFI microcode. A jack or port for a TPM module is in addition-to that which is already installed on the board. Some plugin modules provide for additional features on top of those offered by default. Not all TPM configurations require a jack/port. There are some boards which support TPM but require a module to complete the functionality. However even in those instances, parts of the TPM platform are present on the board in question but are simply disabled/inactive.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 26, 2021)

I think you're misunderstanding what we're saying

Many modern boards support both, with an internal firmware option and an external module
They only have two BIOS options Firmware, or external - and they default to external, disabling the firmware support.

I've checked all my AM4 boards here, and ALL of them behave this way by default, despite being from asus, giga, aorus, and MSI.

Win 11 can't identify that it's been switched to that 'external' setting and just says 'nah get fucked, no W11 for you' and the wording we've been using is from the windows 11 messages about unsupported, blahblah. I'm curious why my Ryzen 1000 is supposedly unsupported, when the same B450 board i have could run ryzen 1k 2k and 3k chips, with most of them on the official list


----------



## Caring1 (Jun 26, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I'm curious why my Ryzen 1000 is supposedly unsupported, when the same B450 board i have could run ryzen 1k 2k and 3k chips, with most of them on the official list


A change in the security features in that chip?
SME/ SEV?


----------



## R-T-B (Jun 27, 2021)

mechtech said:


> Rounded corners you say. Hey MS, my video card and monitor can display more than 8 colours.


I should hope so.  I think you mean bits per color, not literally 8 colors?


----------



## Mussels (Jun 28, 2021)

You know what would make windows 11 take off like a rocket?

built in RGB control software, that devs implement a plugin and the OS can control and sync all the lighting


----------



## Atomic77 (Jun 28, 2021)

Whats a TPM? It looks like from the system check that my almost year old HP Laptop will be able to take windows 11. I suppose my newer DELL AIO will probably be able to get it as well.


----------



## Candor (Jun 28, 2021)

Atomic77 said:


> Whats a TPM? It looks like from the system check that my almost year old HP Laptop will be able to take windows 11. I suppose my newer DELL AIO will probably be able to get it as well.



You should be good to go, you just need to enable it in bios. Look for "Platform Trust Technology (PTT)" on Intel and "firmware Trusted Platform Module (fTPM)" on AMD.

This page has some info.



			https://helgeklein.com/blog/how-to-check-windows-tpm-status-enable-cpu-amd-ftpm-intel-ptt/


----------



## Marshal_90 (Jun 28, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I can't agree with this. Windows 10 has earned itself a reputation and not a good one. Microsoft is correct trying to leave it behind. The key point is that they need to get A WHOLE LOT right for Windows 11 to shine and stand above the gloom cast by Windows 10.


That's my point. Delivering a bug free OS. Because so far 21H1 is the most stable version of Windows 10. If they manage to deliver a bug free OS at launch, it's awesome. The UI is perfect, clean and modern. I like it already (not the leaked version, the one shown by themselves) but I'm not very optimistic.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 28, 2021)

Marshal_90 said:


> Because so far 21H1 is the most stable version of Windows 10.


Stable compared to what? I have never had 10 crash on me. I've seen it do the smiley face when attempting an OC, but never in normal operations. By comparison, since ServicePack1 I have not seen Windows 7 crash either. So stability is very relative. Not really that big of a concern anymore..


Marshal_90 said:


> If they manage to deliver a bug free OS at launch, it's awesome.


Ah, this is what you mean, bug & glitch free. Agreed.


Marshal_90 said:


> The UI is perfect, clean and modern. I like it already (not the leaked version, the one shown by themselves)


I wouldn't say it's perfect, but it is an improvement over Windows 10.


Marshal_90 said:


> but I'm not very optimistic.


...right there with you...


----------



## Marshal_90 (Jun 29, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Stable compared to what? I have never had 10 crash on me. I've seen it do the smiley face when attempting an OC, but never in normal operations. By comparison, since ServicePack1 I have not seen Windows 7 crash either. So stability is very relative. Not really that big of a concern anymore..
> 
> I wouldn't say it's perfect, but it is an improvement over Windows 10.


Yes it is relative. By stable I mean something like Windows 7 experience not necessarily a BSOD. I remember that on early versions of Windows 10 after hanging the time region, I couldn't add new icon to Start menu for about a week! That was a really weird bug. I think it was like that until 1703.

Another interesting problem was with some Windows 8.1 tablets that had received Windows 10 update. If you would've put them on sleep while their battery was running out, You couldn't turn it back on until reinstalling the OS! Even with hybrid sleep being enable.

Anyway let's just hope for a bug free OS for all


----------

