# C-State Values in Throttlestop Have Disappeared



## exoptable (Sep 7, 2021)

Hello! I've run into a problem while working on further lowering temperatures and having higher C8% values with Throttlestop.
For some reason, all the values in the "Package C States" section are stuck at 0.0 and not changing whatsoever.
I've been using Throttlestop 9.3 and updated to version 9.4, but the values still haven't changed.
Any idea what the problem could be? Attached are my settings; I'm using an Intel i5-8250U Lenovo Yoga C930-13IKB.


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## unclewebb (Sep 7, 2021)

Your computer is not idle. My computer has the individual cores spending 99.0% of their time in the core C7 state.





Your cores are only averaging 61.1% in core C7 so the CPU package has no opportunity to go into any of the package C states. Open the Task Manager and go to the Details tab and find out what is running on your computer. When you think it is idle, it is not.

I would increase your turbo ratios. Slowing a CPU down means it will have to spend more time processing background tasks and less time in one of the low power C states. A slow CPU is an inefficient CPU. Same thing goes for setting Speed Shift EPP to a big number. I avoid setting Speed Shift EPP higher than 80. If you are using the Windows Power Saver power plan, it should be able to take care of the EPP setting. No need to check the Speed Shift EPP option in ThrottleStop if Windows 10 is capable of managing this. Check what EPP value the CPU is using in the FIVR monitoring table as you switch to different Windows power plans while Speed Shift EPP is not checked in ThrottleStop.

For Connected Standby or Modern Standby to work properly, you usually need to be using the Windows Balanced power plan. This allows the CPU to go into either Package C8, C9 or C10 when in standby mode.

Make sure to block any BIOS updates. I was talking with one Lenovo owner today who has lost CPU voltage control. This has been locked down and turbo ratio limits have also been locked because of a BIOS update.

I attached a Lenovo logo if you are interested. Download, unzip and copy logo.png into your ThrottleStop folder.


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## exoptable (Sep 7, 2021)

Hi unclewebb, in the Details tab on Task Manager, the program that would be the most telling culprit is the copy of Kaspersky Anti-Virus that I use. The other applications that I have running in the background are a VPN service (Mullvad VPN) that's usually not active, and various Taskbar tweaking applications (7+ Taskbar Tweaker, T-Clock 64, and TaskbarX).

The EPP values that the CPU uses in FIVR with Speed Shift EPP unchecked are 153 on the Windows Power Saver power plan, and 84 on the Windows Balanced power plan. 
Oddly enough, after changing the Speed Shift EPP value from 180 to 80, switching from a Bluetooth mouse to a Logitech USB receiver mouse and disabling Bluetooth, and toggling the Windows power plan from Power Saver, to Balanced, and back to Power Saver again, that somehow got the Package C States appearing again (with C8% averaging between 66-76%) and C7% Core C States averaging between 95-97% with leaving the laptop on idle. I'm getting the same range of C8% occupancy levels on idle with both the Power Saver and Balanced plan, so would it be best for me to stick with the Power Saver power plan for the sake of maximizing battery life?

Regarding C9 and C10 states, I was also referencing Che0063's informative post over on the NotebookReview forums for enabling deeper C States (link is to a PDF as the proper forum website itself seems to be down), and he mentions that enabling "Panel Self-Refresh" allows the system to enter those two states. Is there any known means of tweaking one's system to actually access those two deeper states besides being a togglable setting via the Intel Graphics Command Center / Intel UHD Graphics Control Panel? Apparently the "Panel Self-Refresh" setting is via the "Power" tab within the "System" section in the Intel Graphics Command Center application, but sadly it's not an option on either one of my two Windows 10 devices. I apologize this section of my post deviating from the topic of my original post.

I remember Lenovo's more recent BIOS updates being a nightmare on my unit for a long while, with my temperatures averaging 43°-45°C on standby. After a very long search through forum after forum for how to go about downloading an older BIOS version, I had finally found a solution one user found by changing the BIOS's version name used in the web address when manually downloading them off of Lenovo's official website, to the version name of the older BIOS you're trying to download. Downgrading from the latest BIOS version being 8GCN37WW to BIOS version 8GCN35WW really made a world of difference: haven't updated the BIOS since then, nor to I ever plan to. I'm not sure if the method still works nowadays as I had tried that method over 6 months ago now, hopefully it still does. I'll see if I can find that link to share here if anyone else happens to come across this post and is struggling with that BIOS update issue.


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## unclewebb (Sep 7, 2021)

exoptable said:


> Kaspersky Anti-Virus


The killer of viruses and package C states. Some antivirus programs are very heavy on system resources. 

Some tasks, especially antivirus related tasks, only run when the CPU is idle. As soon as you interrupt these tasks, the C states might return to normal.  



exoptable said:


> Power Saver


Just because a plan is called Power Saver does not mean that it actually saves power. A slow CPU is an inefficient CPU. It can end up consuming more power. Getting tasks done quickly is the best way to save power. That is the logic behind Intel Speed Shift Technology. Allow the CPU to burst up to full speed so it can get tasks done quickly. Once a task is done, the core can immediately get back into the low power C7 state. A slow CPU at 0.6V makes people think that they are saving power but an idle core in C7 at 0.0V is an even better way to save power.

 I would stick with the Balanced power plan when running on battery power. I prefer the High Performance power plan when plugged in. 

Do you know if your computer supports Modern Standby mode? If you are using the Balanced power plan and Modern Standby is working, you should see something for C8, C9 or C10 in the Package Standby table after your computer has been using sleep. I think that this only works correctly if you are using the Balanced power plan. 





@Che0063 is the best source for C state info. His power saving guide on Notebook Review is still available.
Post your C state specific questions over there. He knows more about the C state stuff than I do. 






						TechnologyGuide
					

Thank you for visiting the TechnologyGuide network. Unfortunately, these forums are no longer active. We extend a heartfelt thank you to the entire community for their steadfast support—it is really you, our readers, that drove




					forum.notebookreview.com


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## exoptable (Sep 8, 2021)

Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to test whether my C930 supports Modern Standby mode, as whenever I enter the laptop into Sleep Mode I'm unable to wake it up again. I've tried pressing/holding the power button and pressing the keyboard but it just doesn't wake up, so I've no other choice but to press the power button for over 10 seconds to force turn off the unit completely.
I've tried various solutions others have had, but I haven't had any success with getting the system to wake up after Sleep Mode.

After changing the Speed Shift value to 80 and toggling to the Balanced power plan, on battery power my system is drawing about 3.6-4 mW on average, at a 33°-36°C C0% temperature.

Do I have my Turbo Power Limits properly set up? I've never really had a solid grasp on the most optimal way I should be setting them.

EDIT: Realized why I wasn't able to access NotebookForum's website-- the "HTTPS Everywhere" browser extension I use has "Encrypt All Sites Eligible" set to ON, which wasn't allowing my browser to connect to the site as it isn't an encrypted connection.


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## unclewebb (Sep 8, 2021)

If you cannot wake your computer from sleep, that usually means you have set the CPU voltage too low. Does your computer have this problem when the voltage offsets are all set to +0.000?

This useful ThrottleStop option resets the CPU offset voltages to +0.0000 just before a computer enters sleep mode. 





When you resume, the offset voltages are automatically restored to whatever value you were previously using. This feature can help solve the resume from sleep problem you are having.

On most recent computers, Windows 10 can manage the Speed Shift EPP value. This option on the main screen of ThrottleStop is for older computers where Windows 10 is not Speed Shift aware. Only check this option if you need to use it. When this box is not checked, change Windows power plans and watch the FIVR monitoring table to see what Speed Shift EPP values the CPU is using. If the EPP values change when you change power plans, that means Windows is able to manage this setting. 

Your power limits look OK. You can check the PL1 Clamp option if you want to make sure that your CPU does not exceed 28W long term. Your cooling can probably not handle any more heat than this. The default 28 second time limit might be too much. If running your CPU at over 28W for 28 seconds causes it to overheat, you can reduce the turbo time limit to maybe 8 seconds or less.


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## exoptable (Sep 8, 2021)

Yeah, I'm still running into this problem unfortunately: attempted waking up from Sleep Mode multiple times after having the Voltage Sleep Default option checked, and multiple times with Throttlestop turned off entirely, but the laptop still can't wake up from Sleep Mode.

Whenever it doesn't wake up from Sleep Mode and I have to force turn off the laptop, it takes about 5-7 attempts of booting up to a black screen (and thus, having to force turn off the laptop as a result) before the Lenovo boot logo finally appears and the laptop properly gets to the Windows login page.

For some reason whenever I go through that whole ordeal, it always causes the Package C States to all read as 0.0 when I finally get the laptop booted up and logged in.
After I restart the laptop once and let the display turn off for about an hour or so (since it can't wake up if it goes into actual Sleep Mode), the C-States readings come back.


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## Ciri1983811 (Sep 12, 2021)

Hello, first time poster here.

I have the same trouble with package c-state disappeared while fiddling with windows power management settings and throttlestop to maximize batteri life on my new MSI GE66 with i7-10870H.

The package C states was working ok, C7 70%,  and in front of my eyes they went all to 0.0 ... i still got 8+ hours of light work battery time, so i believe the package is still going in deeper c states. I tried also a clean install, with just throttlestop (deleted ini file), reinstalling all manufacturer drivers, installing all intel latest drivers, reverting to factory bios and reunlocking one by one all functionalities .... even Ec reset,  throttlestop just never showed packages C states again ... but i swear i saw 70 80 %  on C7 before this glitch!!! attached screenshots.


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## unclewebb (Sep 13, 2021)

What did you change in Windows Power Management? It is possible for a setting within the Windows power plan to block the package C states. You can try pressing the Restore plan defaults button in Power Options. 





On my 10th Gen CPU, ThrottleStop is still reporting the package C states correctly. Check out my idle power consumption data compared to your CPU. 
The lower package C states are blocked but package C2 and C3 work OK. 





In the C States window, try changing the Package C State Request value. 
Press Apply after each change and see if it makes a difference.


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## rethcirE (Sep 13, 2021)

In my experience sometimes I would also lose all C-State readouts when overclocking, and my idle wattage went from 1-2W to 7-8W. CPU seemed stuck in C1-C3 state?

Uninstalling all software, drivers, even OS did not fix this. Resetting CMOS also did not fix. However, if I 'Load Factory Defaults' from within BIOS menu and reboot; fixed. All C-state up to C10 working on my laptop (8750H) again.


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## Ciri1983811 (Sep 13, 2021)

Well, i took the screenshot in a bad timing ... idle wattage is 3.5 W, that was just a spike ..  anyway, i also made a CLEAN WIN 10 install, factory default BIOS, EC reset, and put just throttlestop with no customizations, no undervolt etc.  and still no readouts, so that's not a power plan change issue. I just noticed that also on HWinfo, there are no more package c-state readouts, onli corse C0, C3, C7 residency. It's like the package c-state readouts sensor is disappeared....  i'll make screenshots of all my bios and power plasn settings, if you can check if some setting may interfere qith the sensor ... the readouts was there, i saw the numers ... but it seems no OS dependant i did everthing ... is it possible the CPU just stopped reporting c states.. ?!?


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## unclewebb (Sep 13, 2021)

When Intel CPUs are not using any of the package C states, ThrottleStop will report 0.0 and HWiNFO will not report anything. HWiNFO will hide the package C state info. 

Many different Intel CPUs have bugs related to the C states. I do not know how to fix this Intel problem.


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