# CPU & GPU temperature scary high



## vonKoga (Oct 6, 2018)

Hi guys. I just want to check if these temperatures are normal or i have to get some cooling system.

This is what i got
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3Lxdvn

When i play games CPU temperature goes over 75°C and GPU around 70°C , the glass side of the case gets really hot. I was wondering if you could recommend something to lower these temperatures, and is it time to change CPU thermal paste maybe, it's been two years now.

These are the non-gaming temperatures:
http://prntscr.com/l2tiaj
http://prntscr.com/l2till

Thanks in advance.


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## dorsetknob (Oct 6, 2018)

Fill your spec's here
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/account/specs


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## dj-electric (Oct 6, 2018)

Your components are not human, and they are meant to be able to deal with these temperatures.
CPU might be a little on the higher side, but with a stock cooler and the immense amount of resources that GTX 1080 is demanding from it, it would seem typical.


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## Durvelle27 (Oct 6, 2018)

You seriously paired a i3 with a GTX 1080


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## John Naylor (Oct 6, 2018)

The MoBo / CPu choice is a bit low budget compared to the case / GFX card choice and.

But with a  stock cooler, those temps are well within expected parameters and the GPU is well below the throttling point.  Im not quite sure where this mindset has come from, but you don't get extra points for having greater headroom.   If temps are below 80C you are more than fine.


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## robot zombie (Oct 6, 2018)

GPU seems fine. I don't know of too many that can't handle 70C, and many others that it's typical for. CPU is definitely high, but not scary high. Maybe higher than it aught to be ideally, but it'll still run that way for years to come.

That case looks like it has decent airflow, just from a glance. What is your fan setup like? That would be my first area. If the GPU cooler has no cool air to suck in, it can't do it's job. Worse yet if the case has negative pressure, all of the hot air being pushed out is immediately getting sucked back in somewhere nearby. Same for the CPU HSF. Improving sub-optimal case airflow can significantly improve temps. If you've already got enough of your fan spots occupied (in your case 3 front intake and top/rear exhaust,) you may want to play with your fan curves.

If you're running the stock cooler, might consider a minor upgrade. Scythe makes some really good single-mid and dual-tower coolers that don't cost a whole lot. You do not need to spend a lot, here.

Though honestly, if you're asking whether you _need_ to upgrade... ...the answer is no. But if peace of mind is going to be an issue, go for it. Depends on what seeing those numbers go down is worth to you I guess... ...or how much noise/room heating you can tolerate.


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## rtwjunkie (Oct 6, 2018)

Also, how many exhaust fans on that case? I see 3 intake fans.


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## robot zombie (Oct 6, 2018)

Didn't even think of that, though I guess it isn't that unusual to see people running only the stock fans. Even one rear exhaust would probably make a big difference in that case. Would just need something pulling hot air away from that CPU cooler.


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## Durvelle27 (Oct 6, 2018)

From a quick search his case doesn’t have any Exhaust fans only 3x Intakes


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## rtwjunkie (Oct 6, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> From a quick search his case doesn’t have any Exhaust fans only 3x Intakes


If so, then an unnatural amount of heat is building up, only passively escaping.  It explains the glass getting so hot.  

OP, install at least one exhaust fan at the rear, and maybe even one on top of you wish, and I think your temperatures will go down a bit.

What is your room ambient temperature? Where are you located?


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## Vya Domus (Oct 6, 2018)

No wonder it's at 75c, that's a dual core being pushed to the maximum at all times likely since he paired it with a 1080.


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## rtwjunkie (Oct 7, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> No wonder it's at 75c, that's a dual core being pushed to the maximum at all times likely since he paired it with a 1080.


That is likely also part of the equation.


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## Durvelle27 (Oct 7, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> No wonder it's at 75c, that's a dual core being pushed to the maximum at all times likely since he paired it with a 1080.


This as well. That CPU will constantly hit 100% usage in game which will take up the temp along with the poor ventilation


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 7, 2018)

Whats the room temperature?

(Ambient)


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## cadaveca (Oct 7, 2018)

vonKoga said:


> Hi guys. I just want to check if these temperatures are normal or i have to get some cooling system.
> 
> This is what i got
> https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3Lxdvn
> ...



Temperatures are fine. You could add more fans to the case to improve airflow, but otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it unless you are experiencing crashes. You have about 20c on the CPU (95c before throttle) and 13c on the GPU (as shown in your pictures) before they actually overheat, so don't worry about it too much, really. Both parts will slow themselves to keep temperatures in check, and that will prevent any damage to your parts for sure.

Storm in a tea kettle, really.


Now, if you want to overclock, then you may want to improve airflow, but for stock frequencies on CPU and GPU, everything is well within limits, and performing well, I'd say.


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## vonKoga (Oct 7, 2018)

Wow i didn't expect this much answers  Thanks!
I'm new to this board so i didn't know where to put specs

Well i recently bought this GPU, that's why the mainboard and CPU are a bit illogical, and i didn't buy it for gaming, but i thought i could play a game or two without having to worry that it'll burn down 

Actually, this is my case, and i attached the image of the insides of the case










Are you suggesting to buy another CPU, and if so which one?
I don't have any coolers to take out the air, perhaps that's the first one to do?


Ambient temperature is around 22 °C.


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## cucker tarlson (Oct 7, 2018)

No rear exhaust and solid top, absolute nightmare for an AIB cooler. And it's only gonna get worse with a betttter CPU since that 1080 is not being utilized well with an i3. Right now it's within the margin, but mainly cause the 1080 is not at full stretch.


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## dj-electric (Oct 7, 2018)

I'm taking it that this picture is from the assembly process, a power connector is connected to this graphics card, and your monitor is plugged into the back of it...


...right?


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## vonKoga (Oct 7, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> No rear exhaust and solid top, absolute nightmare for an AIB cooler. And it's only gonna get worse with a betttter CPU since that 1080 is not being utilized well with an i3. Right now it's within the margin, but mainly cause the 1080 is not at full stretch.



What do you suggest?



dj-electric said:


> I'm taking it that this picture is from the assembly process, a power connector is connected to this graphics card, and your monitor is plugged into the back of it...
> 
> 
> ...right?



Yes this is when i transfered all components in this new case, couple of days ago


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## cucker tarlson (Oct 7, 2018)

put a rear exhaust fan and cut the top for a top exhaust one too.


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## looniam (Oct 7, 2018)

you really need to get one of those front fans on the back; the top one, with leaving the bottom two for air to the gpu. i'm sure a few experts will nit pick but _generally you remove heat, not cool it down._ thermal dynamics 101: *heat is attracted to cold.*

what TIM did you use on that stock heatsink? if you used what intel puts on it, any decent 3rd party TIM will have better results. i favor NT-1 but MX or a few others will work just as well for the cpu.

also what voltage(s) are set in the bios? you could be getting more than necessary for a locked chip. for giggles i've undervolted all my lock chips, because thats about all the tweaking one can do. that will help.

though you may want to consider a CM 212+EVO or other inexpensive heatsink - there are many. they will far exceed what that little stock one handles.

those are my thoughts, have at them if you wish.


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## GreiverBlade (Oct 7, 2018)

75°c and 70°c for CPU and GPU and that's edit: "scary"  high? 

well mine are more 67°c and 61°c but with a Intel stock cooler 70°c is a feat even on a i3 ...


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## vonKoga (Oct 7, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> put a rear exhaust fan and cut the top for a top exhaust one too.



Can i just transfer one of the fans from the front on the back?

Since I will probably mess things up by cutting the case, what about this one?
https://ms-start.com/en/ms-falcon-pro-gaming-case-with-blue-led-fans.aspx



looniam said:


> you really need to get one of those front fans on the back; the top one, with leaving the bottom two for air to the gpu. i'm sure a few experts will nit pick but _generally you remove heat, not cool it down._ thermal dynamics 101: *heat is attracted to cold.*
> 
> what TIM did you use on that stock heatsink? if you used what intel puts on it, any decent 3rd party TIM will have better results. i favor NT-1 but MX or a few others will work just as well for the cpu.
> 
> ...



I attached images from the BIOS, but i'm not sure about the TIM



GreiverBlade said:


> 75°c and 70°c for CPU and GPU and that's edit: "scary"  high?
> 
> well mine are more 67°c and 61°c but with a Intel stock cooler 70°c is a feat even on a i3 ...



Well It was much lower before I transfered all in this new case, and added this GPU, so i thought it's better to consult the experts before things go sideways


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## vonKoga (Oct 7, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> You seriously paired a i3 with a GTX 1080



I just added 1080 on top of current configuration, before that it was 550Ti. What CPU would you suggest?


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## Jetster (Oct 7, 2018)

Bump to i5 6600 is all you need, but your temps are fine


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## Vlada011 (Oct 7, 2018)

For that GPU you need i5-8600K + Noctua NH-U9S. 
You can OC him to 4.8GHz on NH-U9S or NH-U12. 

On your place I would use ASUS Z270E + i5-8600K.
If you sell your mobo and CPU you can buy even better combination, some cooler.
But i5-8600K is your priority.


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## cucker tarlson (Oct 7, 2018)

Vlada011 said:


> For that GPU you need i5-8600K + Noctua NH-U9S.
> You can OC him to 4.8GHz on NH-U9S or NH-U12.
> 
> On your place I would use ASUS Z270E + i5-8600K.
> ...


For 120hz+.
For 60hz I say go with 8400 if price are normal, or get a 2600 if intel's price are too high.

Also,a 92mm cooler for 8600K OC ? really ?


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## looniam (Oct 7, 2018)

just thought i'd mention that mobo supports a i7-7700.


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## Vya Domus (Oct 7, 2018)

If it's just the temperatures that are bothering you so much just buy a cheap tower cooler, literally anything will be better than the stock one.


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## Aquinus (Oct 7, 2018)

vonKoga said:


> the glass side of the case gets really hot.


Add a half decent exhaust fan. It sounds like airflow isn't very good.


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## cucker tarlson (Oct 7, 2018)

Aquinus said:


> Add a half decent exhaust fan. It sounds like airflow isn't very good.


This is the problem,not the cooler. This case is *shit*, I'm surprised with what manufacturers do these days. Put 3x rgb fans in front, no exhaust, closed top.  Stupid, just stupid.


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## GreiverBlade (Oct 7, 2018)

Vlada011 said:


> For that GPU you need i5-8600K + Noctua NH-U9S.
> You can OC him to 4.8GHz on NH-U9S or NH-U12.
> 
> On your place I would use ASUS Z270E + i5-8600K.
> ...


errr----with Intel's pricing ... Fat chance ...

selling the i3 and mobo/RAM could Yield a better deal with a R5 2600/2600X


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## Aquinus (Oct 7, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> This is the problem,not the cooler. This case is *shit*, I'm surprised with what manufacturers do these days. Put 3x rgb fans in front, no exhaust, closed top.  Stupid, just stupid.


There is a single rear exhaust fan according to pictures and specs about the case.


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## Durvelle27 (Oct 7, 2018)

Aquinus said:


> There is a single rear exhaust fan according to pictures and specs about the case.


What pictures and specs are you looking at 

As Corsair official website only list 3x Intake fans

And even the picture OP posted shows no exhaust fan


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## Splinterdog (Oct 7, 2018)

The OP mentioned 'over 70c' for his CPU when gaming and now he's being advised to change both his mobo and CPU, which no doubt would also require a third party cooler too, to replace an Intel stock cooler, adding to the expense.
If he couldn't afford to do all that, a decent rear exhaust fan and a six pipe third party cooler would bring the heat down dramatically.


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## Aquinus (Oct 7, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> What pictures and specs are you looking at
> 
> As Corsair official website only list 3x Intake fans
> 
> And even the picture OP posted shows no exhaust fan


The op's specs say:  MS Spectrum Gaming Pro
https://ms-start.com/en/ms-spectrum-pro-gaming-midi-tower-case.aspx
...and the site says:


> possible fan positions: front 3x12cm, back1x12cm


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## Vlada011 (Oct 7, 2018)

Case fans will not influence on temperature of processor and GPU.
Hot GPU and Hot CPU will always be stronger than Case fans.
Need better cooling for specific components.


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## Aquinus (Oct 7, 2018)

Vlada011 said:


> Case fans will not influence on temperature of processor and GPU.
> Hot GPU and Hot CPU will always be stronger than Case fans.
> Need better cooling for specific components.


Um, no? Temperature of components depends on the ambient temperature inside of the case. If the case fans aren't moving the warm air out of the case, components will get warmer. Heat flows across a temperature gradient and if the temperature inside of the case is hotter, the components will get hotter as well. Low ambient temperatures mean lower component temperatures because regardless of temperature, the difference in temperature (ΔT), is going to remain, more or less, constant. So if the temperature inside of the case is 10°C hotter, I would expect components to be 10°C hotter as well. An exhaust fan helps remove that already warm air from the case and helps the intake fans trying to pull in cooler air from outside of the case. That lowers ambient temperatures inside of the case, which will in turn lower component temperatures.

The best cooler in the world would mean nothing if it couldn't remove the heat out of the case.


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## Durvelle27 (Oct 7, 2018)

Aquinus said:


> The op's specs say:  MS Spectrum Gaming Pro
> https://ms-start.com/en/ms-spectrum-pro-gaming-midi-tower-case.aspx
> ...and the site says:


His link in the op states Corsair 570 RGB



Vlada011 said:


> Case fans will not influence on temperature of processor and GPU.
> Hot GPU and Hot CPU will always be stronger than Case fans.
> Need better cooling for specific components.


You can’t be serious right

Go remove all the case fans in your PC and than come back and tell me proper air flow doesn’t affect the temps of components


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## Vya Domus (Oct 7, 2018)

Those 3 front fans are pushing plenty fresh air inside the case, the case isn't a problem and any extra fans wouldn't make a big difference. This is a dual core i3 were talking about, how much heat can it produce such that not even 3 fans wouldn't be enough ? Seriously.

That's a stock cooler, that's bottom of the barrel in terms of cooling. That's the bottleneck, though 75c is still well within safe limits. I am always baffled about these sorts of threads that derail into recommendations that are completely unrelated to the original issue. A new motherboard and CPU ? Seriously ? The guy was simply wondering whether or not those temps are fine and guess what, they are.

This debate that has unfolded is beyond me.


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## Aquinus (Oct 7, 2018)

Durvelle27 said:


> His link in the op states Corsair 570 RGB


See this post:
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/cpu-gpu-temperature-scary-high.248272/#post-3917740

He actively put a youtube link to the case specified in his specs... but for the sake of argument, lets say it's the one in the link in the OP. That has a bracket for a rear fan too.
https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Cases/570x-rgb-config/p/CC-9011098-WW


Vya Domus said:


> Those 3 front fans are pushing plenty fresh air inside the case, the case isn't a problem and any extra fans wouldn't make a big difference. This is a dual core i3 were talking about, how much heat can it produce such that not even 3 fans wouldn't be enough ? Seriously.
> 
> That's a stock cooler, that's bottom of the barrel in terms of cooling. That's the bottleneck, though 75c is still well within safe limits. I am always baffled about these sorts of threads that derail into recommendations that are completely unrelated to the original issue. A new motherboard and CPU ? Seriously ? The guy was simply wondering whether or not those temps are fine and guess what, they are.
> 
> This debate that has unfolded is beyond me.


Blowing hot air out of the case is kind of important. It's the whole airflow thing. 

Edit: If the PSU has a fan, the path of least resistance is airflow towards the bottom of the case, not the top. This is another reason why an exhaust fan is important.


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## Vya Domus (Oct 7, 2018)

Aquinus said:


> Blowing hot air out of the case is kind of important. It's the whole airflow thing.



Hot air is still being blown out out of the case even if you have front fans only. That air that goes in doesn't go into a void, it gets out.

Air that goes in == air that goes out. No matter the configuration, you can't defy the laws that govern air pressure. The only thing that you can influence is where most of that air goes out.


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## cucker tarlson (Oct 7, 2018)

yes,it goes out,at a lousy rate where it needs to be dumped asap.


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## Splinterdog (Oct 7, 2018)

I would be far from happy with temps like that, regardless of whether they're within acceptable tolerances, which reminds me...
"Uh...it's probably not a problem...probably...but I'm showing a small discrepancy in...well, no, it's well within acceptable bounds again.
Sustaining sequence.Nothing you need to worry about, Gordon.
Go ahead."
"Just change the heatsink and add a rear cooler will you please Gordon?"


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## Aquinus (Oct 7, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Hot air is still being blown out out of the case even if you have front fans only. That air that goes in doesn't go into a void, it gets out.
> 
> Air that goes in == air that goes out. No matter the configuration, you can't defy the laws that govern air pressure. The only thing that you can influence is where most of that air goes out.


But the fans dictate the path which the bulk of the air goes. If none of the air goes by the CPU, it’s not effectively going to move heat. Where the air flows is just as important as it flowing at all.

The OP even said that the glass side panel is hot to the touch so say what you will, it’s not removing the heat well enough.


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## cucker tarlson (Oct 7, 2018)

when using an AIB card,the rear exhaust is the most crucial one in the whole system.


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## rtwjunkie (Oct 7, 2018)

Those proposing expensive solutions to the OP, go back and read, please.  

His system is not in danger, but it is obviously outside of the OP’s comfort zone. So, way back early on I suggested a cheap, simple step to try first: buy a good fan for the rear exhaust.  It will speed up the rate at which hot air is being expelled from his case.  

The fact his case ambient temp is high is proof that his heatsinks are working.  But that hot air will accumulate in dead pockets without active work to reroute it, which an exhaust fan will do.

Let’s let the OP take this step before moving further, please.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 7, 2018)

Vlada011 said:


> Case fans will not influence on temperature of processor and GPU.
> Hot GPU and Hot CPU will always be stronger than Case fans.
> Need better cooling for specific components.



That's hogwash.

At OP.

You nee exhaust fans bad, 71.6 degrees is a good temp but you are getting thermal buildup.

Those who say you need a cpu upgrade are only 45% right.


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## GreiverBlade (Oct 7, 2018)

Splinterdog said:


> The OP mentioned 'over 70c' for his CPU when gaming and now he's being advised to change both his mobo and CPU, which no doubt would also require a third party cooler too, to replace an Intel stock cooler, adding to the expense.
> If he couldn't afford to do all that, a decent rear exhaust fan and a six pipe third party cooler would bring the heat down dramatically.


actually those who mentioned CPU change and such ... was because the OP paired a 1080 with a i3 ... (it it was a 1050Ti or a 1060 that would be different)

now on the temperatures issue ... there is no issues at all ...


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## looniam (Oct 7, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Hot air is still being blown out out of the case even if you have front fans only. That air that goes in doesn't go into a void, it gets out.
> 
> Air that goes in == air that goes out. No matter the configuration, you can't defy the laws that govern air pressure. The only thing that you can influence is where most of that air goes out.


you should do more research before giving advice:

* * Ways to Better Cooling; Airflow, Cooler & Fan Data..*


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## Vya Domus (Oct 7, 2018)

looniam said:


> you should do more research before giving advice:



I actually didn't give any particular advice, just mentioned some basic notions.

If there is anything that I said that you think it's incorrect feel free to say it, rather that pointing me to some website. Otherwise your recommendation for me to do more research means little.



Aquinus said:


> The OP even said that the glass side panel is hot to the touch so say what you will, it’s not removing the heat well enough.



Glass retains heat, no wonder. OP's case has 3 front fans and 1 exhaust, are you suggesting that's not enough ? I somehow find that hard to believe, I am going to say it again, this is an 50W CPU we are talking about. And a 180W TDP GPU, true but that card must be pretty underutilized most of the time due to the bottleneck.

We are looking at 200W of heat at worst and 4 case fans can't deal with that ? Again, hard to believe.


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## looniam (Oct 8, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> I actually didn't give any particular advice, just mentioned some basic notions.
> 
> If there is anything that I said that you think it's incorrect feel free to say it, rather that pointing me to some website. Otherwise your recommendation for me to do more research means little.


well your "notion" is completely wrong; to claim the air flow through a case will be the same with or without an exhaust fan. if you really believe that, well, it's almost pointless to discuss this with you.

there needs  to an equal (or very close to equal) air flow leaving the case as entering. having all intake with nothing helping the exhaust will cause a build up of pressure making the intake fans less effective and also causing the temps to rise as the air stays in longer; that is basic physics and not a "notion." also, having warmer air is less effective to remove the heat from the heatsink is basic thermal dynamics.

fundamentally, water works the same as air. put a pan on the stove that has an inlet and outlet and apply heat. increasing the inlet faster than the outlet causes the water to be exposed longer to the heat and gets hotter. though really, to not even bother looking at the link i posted and blow it off as some website, looks to me you don't care to find out and that i am likely talking to a brick wall.

and i didn't say you gave advise, i said you should do more  research before giving it, two can play that game.


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## cadaveca (Oct 8, 2018)

You guys are hilarious. Yes, air is classified as a liquid for cooling considerations.

But there is this thing called positive pressure, and Bernoulli's principle (which uses different equations on water and air since one is compressible and the other is not). That means you cannot directly compare water and air flows. 

The highest speed of the airflow will be where the pressure is the lowest, at the exhaust with no fan. No exhaust fan is needed.

Then there's stuff like this:

https://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?tid=wh_positive&area=en


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## looniam (Oct 8, 2018)

i don't care how many positive vs negative air pressure gifs are used; there is NO WAY a vent will have the same air flow without a fan as with. well unless its a crappy fan . .but you know what i mean.

how about data from actual testing:
The Big Air Cooling Investigation


> Generally, all other things being equal, it’s better to get hot air out of your case than to pump cool air in, particularly when it comes to CPU cooling.


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## cadaveca (Oct 8, 2018)

looniam said:


> i don't care how many positive vs negative air pressure gifs are used; there is NO WAY a vent will have the same air flow without a fan as with.



Well, you know, I don't care about how many FORUM posts say what... I refer to science and what I learned taking HVAC system design. One fan blowing may actually RESTRICT airflow and cause a stall condition (axial fans actually blow air both out of a system, but also back IN). Either way, three fans blowing in, with no restriction = three fans worth of airflow out the open exhaust hole.

You might find this interesting:

https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/29166.pdf


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## looniam (Oct 8, 2018)

cadaveca said:


> Well, you know, I don't care about how many FORUM posts say what... I refer to science and what I learned taking HVAC system design. One fan blowing may actually RESTRICT airflow and cause a stall condition (axial fans actually blow air both out of a system, but also back IN). Either way, three fans blowing in, with no restriction = three fans worth of airflow out the open exhaust hole.
> 
> You might find this interesting:
> 
> https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/29166.pdf


how about posting something related to PC cases?








1 Rear (Exhaust) Fan = CPU: 64C | GPU: 85C
1 Top (Exhaust) Fan = CPU: 65C | GPU: 83C
1 Front (Intake) Fan = CPU: 67C | GPU: 80C 

as i posted an exhaust fan helps w/cpu temps. and having been a boiler tech in the navy and plenty of hand on experience with air and water cooling a PC - if you don't understand convection works better than radiant . .  really mr .HVAC tech?


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## Vya Domus (Oct 8, 2018)

looniam said:


> well your "notion" is completely wrong; to claim the air flow through a case will be the same with or without an exhaust fan.



I actually got no idea where you got this from, you are making stuff up buddy. I simply said and I quote : "Air that goes in == air that goes out. No matter the configuration" which is undeniably true, this isn't a damn compressor. There is no significant "build up of pressure".

And I even said the following : 





Vya Domus said:


> The only thing that you can influence is where most of that air goes out.



In other words, you can only influence *the airflow*. But no matter what you do the air that will go in, will always go out, *all of it*. Be it with 100 exhaust fans or with none.



looniam said:


> fundamentally, water works the same as air.



No they don't. They have different characteristics, such as viscosity and density. Hence they don't behave in the same away at all. And that's also the reason why you probably don't understand these things.



looniam said:


> increasing the inlet faster than the outlet causes the water to be exposed longer to the heat and gets hotter.



Try pumping water into a chamber where the volume that goes in is higher that what goes out and see what it will happen. Spoiler alert : it will probably *blow up *or more likely you won't be able to do it to great extent since water isn't very compressible. I am guessing that the notion (yeah I am going to use that word again  ) that you probably attempted to explain is that if you were to *keep *or *recirculate* the water it will get hotter. Seriously man, don't go near some equipment of the sort or accidents may occur if you believe that's how this works.



looniam said:


> that is basic physics



As basic as it is, sadly , you don't understand it.



looniam said:


> i said you should do more  research



Well, this time I insist to give a piece of advice: don't allude to someone else's lack of knowledge on a subject and tell them to do some research unless you're certain that you understand what you claim. And I also suggest you let go of this argument, you are in the wrong and for the time being I appear to grasp the science and physics that you invoke better that you do.


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## looniam (Oct 8, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you post reminds me there is no argument against willful ignorance. you haven't shown any data  relevant to back up your  . . notions and refuse to look at any other.

good luck with that, we are done here.


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## cadaveca (Oct 8, 2018)

looniam said:


> really mr .HVAC tech?



Laughable at best. I mean, that's some decent info there, but that's using a tower cooler that has fans already blowing to the exhaust, but the OP has a stock cooler, with an axial fan blowing at 90 degrees from the case airflow. This is a very different set of fluid flow you are trying to compare here. That's why an exhaust fan may be sub-optimal, and I linked the Silverstone stuff. Those gifs show how fans can end up recirculating warm air back into the cooler.

It's cool you were in the navy as a boiler tech (I love being punny. ). Much respect to you for that.

HVAC does incorporate all of that, plus much more. I mean, you tried comparing water flow to airflow, but ignored Bernoulli's principle. That doesn't mean I know more than you do, but do you not think Bernoulli's principle applies here a bit?

My own PC case has three fans as intake, with no exhaust, cooling a GTX 1080, and a TR 1950X. This gives me the best temps, even with me using a tower cooler, contrary to your Linus Tech tips video. Every case will be different, especially if not using the same fans, which is why I linked the US Gov PDF.  As a boiler tech, you should realize this, no?

Like, I don't mean to argue here really, but I found it HILARIOUS you guys are arguing over something so unimportant, really, to the topic at hand. THAT is what is funny. Not you yourself... BOTH of you. Me too, because now I'm doing it too. I wanted in on the fun. ROFL. I have nothing better to do right now though... Thanksgiving weekend and all.


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## Vya Domus (Oct 8, 2018)

looniam said:


> you haven't shown any data  relevant to back up



Common misconception. The data you show also needs to be correct or in line to what you claim. Otherwise, well ... it's just data. Data by itself, not very useful.

If only you would have known that you'd have seen the fault in your arguments.


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## looniam (Oct 8, 2018)

cadaveca said:


> Laughable at best. I mean, that's some decent info there, but that's using a tower cooler that has fans already blowing to the exhaust, but the OP has a stock cooler, with an axial fan blowing at 90 degrees from the case airflow. This is a very different set of fluid flow you are trying to compare here. That's why an exhaust fan may be sub-optimal, and I linked the Silverstone stuff. Those gifs show how fans can end up recirculating warm air back into the cooler.
> 
> It's cool you were in the navy as a boiler tech (I love being punny. ). Much respect to you for that.
> 
> ...


ofc the low hanging fruit is pointing out the case differences.  or pointing out that in certain configurations an exhaust fan can impede air flow. (or a water block in a custom loop, _oh dear i did it again!_)

the point is convection works better than radiant and i'm sure your first HVAC class covered that. the OP has 3 120mm fans blowing in with nothing helping it flow out. to say another fan on the exhaust won't help is . .  too much thanksgiving libations?


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## cadaveca (Oct 8, 2018)

looniam said:


> too much thanksgiving libations?



I don't drink alcohol. Or caffeine. Nice try though.


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## looniam (Oct 8, 2018)

cadaveca said:


> I don't drink alcohol. Or caffeine. Nice try though.


its wasn't a try but an honest question.


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## cadaveca (Oct 8, 2018)

looniam said:


> its wasn't a try but an honest question.



One that ignores the science of Bernoulli's principle. All that adding a fan may do is lower noise a wee bit, however if that fan's airflow is less than the airflow of all three of those fans combined, it is not going to have the results you think it is. It will merely force the air to try to escape other holes within the case. That's why that case is sold that way in the first place... Corsair actually does employ engineers to design this stuff.

I mean, if it was the way you think it'd be, why would they not just put two fans up front and one in the rear? Costs them nothing.

The answer is positive pressure and Bernoulli's principle. You can calculate this easily.


I don't need forum posts and youtube videos to understand or explain what's going on.


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## looniam (Oct 8, 2018)

bernoulli's principle will affect *CLOSED SYSTEMS ie.air/water tight*. a PC case nor my analogy uses such a condition. well there is airplane lift but that isn't the discussion, now is it?

but it sounds like your mind is made up regardless.

E:
my boo boo is not specifying forced convention vs convection.  huh, that's an obvious mistake.


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## cadaveca (Oct 8, 2018)

looniam said:


> bernoulli's principle will affect *CLOSED SYSTEMS ie.air/water tight*.




Huh? No it doesn't. How does it apply to an aircraft's wing, or other aspects of air flight then?


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## looniam (Oct 8, 2018)

cadaveca said:


> Huh? No it doesn't. How does it apply to an aircraft's wing, or other aspects of air flight then?


i'll gladly tutor you for a small fee.

but then again why should i bother since you know what you know and no forum post will change that?


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## cadaveca (Oct 8, 2018)

looniam said:


> i'll gladly tutor you for a small fee.



Let's use NASA's lessons.... 

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/bernoulli_principle_k-4.pdf

Hence my comment about airflight. I'm sorry, but you don't understand, that's fine. Since we are on an enthusiast PC forum, and many cases these days come with just fans in the front, some users may question how a case maker can do this and think it's OK... I know the explanation, and it's relevant here. THAT's why I am happily continuing this discussion. It serves a purpose relative to this forum.


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## looniam (Oct 8, 2018)

cadaveca said:


> Let's use NASA's lessons....
> 
> https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/bernoulli_principle_k-4.pdf
> 
> Hence my comment about airflight. I'm sorry, but you don't understand, that's fine. Since we are on an enthusiast PC forum, and many cases these days come with just fans in the front, some users may question how a case maker can do this and think it's OK... I know the explanation, and it's relevant here. THAT's why I am happily continuing this discussion. It serves a purpose relative to this forum.


LOL.

you really don't read well. i mentioned airlift as a constrast. it's you who isn't understanding.

nor do you understand the case manufactures make what sell, not whats best. or do you have an explanation on why they slapped a piece of glass just millimeters away from the front fans? (on the OPs case) and you act like reviewers don't criticizes such.

spoiler alert you see front rgb fans but not the ones on the back.


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## cadaveca (Oct 8, 2018)

looniam said:


> LOL.
> 
> you really don't read well. i mentioned airlift as a constrast. it's you who isn't understanding.
> 
> nor do you understand the case manufactures make what sell, not whats best. or do you have an explanation on why they slapped a piece of glass just millimeters away from the front fans? (on the OPs case) and you act like reviewers don't criticizes such.



Not really. if that was the case, why mention Bernoulli at all?

Uh, I AM a reviewer. Take a look at the last 8+ years of memory and motherboard reviews posted to the front page here, and look at who is the author. That's why it says staff under my name... I'm not forum staff. I'm one of the few reviewers that has a love for gaming stuff instead of overclocking (that sells well) and RGB lighting (again, it sells well), contrary to popular forum postings. I have a pretty good understanding of all that stuff. I may have helped make it what it is today, in fact. 

I like stuff that sells well because it grows our hobby, and allows for more revenue for these companies, so they can design better stuff for us to use. Because of this, my opinion on some things often contradicts what other reviewers think... but that's cool.

Well, actually, I don't do reviews any more. I let some younger guys take over my duties here. It's been a bit over a month since I retired from reviews.

Positive pressure helps keep dust out of the inside of our cases, and because of Bernoulli's principle, the air, while slowed inside the case, does exit at the same speed it entered, if not faster, in most cases. The restriction of the openings on a case ensures this. This is also why large-scale HVAC installs start with big thick vents, and end up with tiny ones.. to keep the air flow constant. The restriction of the vent piping to smaller sizes as you get further away from the fans that blow IN increases the pressure of the airflow, making it move faster.

So you can have three fans on front, and the air, if only exiting out the rear (assuming no vents up top), will leave the case faster than it came in from one of those fans.

Case manufacturers make cases with fans as intake only as this adds fresh air into the case and BLOWS it over things inside the case, rather than SUCKING the air out, from relatively random places. The glass in front of a fan doesn't really affect this, and the glass in front actually limits the dust intake and helps speed the air to the fans. Again, this is something you can calculate with Bernoulli's principle. If you want to lower temps, you add in MORE intake fans, providing MORE cool air, not adding exhaust fans.

The OP mentioned the side of his case was warm to the touch.. this isn't because there is too much hot air in the case.. that's because his GPU fan is blowing directly onto the side of the case, heating the glass/plastic/metal directly. it should then reflect off the side of the case, and thanks to that positive pressure, get ejected out the open rear openings over the PCIe slots and the rear fan hole. Adding a fan to the rear of the case will only lower noise a wee bit, but since it WON'T be adding fresh air in the case, and since it is likely NOT going to draw out as much air as the THREE fans up front, isn't really going to helps temperatures in a meaningful way.. in fact, hot air deflecting off the frame of the fan is most likely going to end up getting drawn into the CPU cooler, and might INCREASE CPU temps.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 8, 2018)




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## looniam (Oct 8, 2018)

cadaveca said:


> Not really. if that was the case, why mention Bernoulli at all?
> 
> Uh, I AM a reviewer. Take a look at the last 8+ years of memory and motherboard reviews posted to the front page here, and look at who is the author. That's why it says staff under my name... I'm not forum staff. I'm one of the few reviewers that has a love for gaming stuff instead of overclocking (that sells well) and RGB lighting (again, it sells well), contrary to popular forum postings. I have a pretty good understanding of all that stuff. I may have helped make it what it is today, in fact.
> 
> Well, actually, I don't do reviews any more. I let some younger guys take over my duties here.


yes i know who you are, don't assume i don't. however you don't/haven't done case reviews so your work here, though appreciated, isn't relevant.



cadaveca said:


> Positive pressure helps keep dust out of the inside of our cases, and because of Bernoulli's principle, the air, while slowed inside the case, does exit at the same speed it entered, if not faster, in most cases. The restriction of the openings on a case ensures this. This is also why large-scale HVAC installs start with big thick vents, and end up with tiny ones.. to keep the air flow constant. The restriction of the vent piping to smaller sizes as you get further away from the fans that blow IN increases the pressure of the airflow, making it move faster.



yes yes yes, but you still refuse to see that a case *is not a closed venting systems*. you acknowledge that below but yet don't understand how it makes a difference in your examples.


cadaveca said:


> So you can have three fans on front, and the air, if only exiting out the rear (assuming no vents up top), will leave the case faster than it came in from one of those fans.
> 
> Case manufacturers make cases with fans as intake only as this adds fresh air into the case and BLOWS it over things inside the case, rather than SUCKING the air out, from relatively random places. The glass in front of a fan doesn't really affect this, and the glass in front actually limits the dust intake and helps speed the air to the fans. Again, this is something you can calculate with Bernoulli's principle.
> 
> The OP mentioned the side of his case was warm to the touch.. this isn't because there is too much how air in the case.. that's because his GPU fan is blowing directly onto the side of the case, heating the glass/plastic/metal directly. it should then reflect off the side of the case, and thanks to that positive pressure, get ejected out the open rear openings over the PCIe slots and the rear fan hole. Adding a fan to the rear of the case will only lower noise a wee bit, but since it WON'T be adding fresh air in the case, and since it is likely NOT going to draw out as much air as the THREE fans up front, isn't really going to helps temperatures is a meaningful way.. in fact, hot air deflecting off the frame of the fan is most likely going to end up getting drawn into the CPU cooler, and might INCREASE CPU temps.


and you are completely ignoring thermal dynamic 101. you efficiently  cool down a component by *removing the heat.* i have posted several real world examples of it, but because you know what you know; you refuse to consider any other source from a web site or forum with testing and data results. hell *eidairaman1 *just posted a vid as i am typing. and about the OP's GPU, not *a lot* of hot air comes off the top - facing the glass. a surprising amount of heat blows down on to the mother board. - breadboard mtx motherboard with a gpu and see for yourself.

reminds me of:
_



			Contempt prior to examination is an intellectual vice, from which the greatest faculties of mind are not free.
		
Click to expand...

_
and with that i wish you a happy canadian thanksgiving and bid you adieu.


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## cadaveca (Oct 8, 2018)

looniam said:


> and you are completely ignoring thermal dynamic 101. you efficiently  cool down a component by *removing the heat.* i have posted several real world examples of it, but because you know what you know; you refuse to consider any other source from a web site or forum with testing and data results. hell *eidairaman1 *just posted a vid as i am typing. and about the OP's GPU, noit a lot of hot air comes off the top - facing the glass. a surprising amount of heat blows down on to the mother board. - breadboard on a mtx motherboard and see for yourself.



I don't discount data... I discount data given by people who don't understand the data they generate, and then people who also don't understand regurgitating that bad info.

Well, you know, that video says nothing that agrees with either of is. It's pretty neutral.  Good video though.


As to your comment about the videocard, you should try using a fog machine like in that video and see where the air really goes. I have already done this. With "vapes" being easily available, you can get a "fog machine" pretty cheaply these days... just needs an 18650 battery or two and a custom coil. Anyway the air ends up against the motherboard, as well as out the other side, against the side of the case. it spreads out a bit more on the non-board side because there are commonly heatpipes dispersing the airflow, so it may not seem as much as it really is since its split by the heatpipes.




looniam said:


> and with that i wish you a happy canadian thanksgiving and bid you adieu.


Thanks! It's one filled with snow. but that's cool with me.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Oct 8, 2018)

_*Heat cannot spontaneously flow from a colder location to a hotter location*_.
Isnt it lovely to be a fan?

All things being equal, its always best to keep it simple. Fans inside a case are used to direct airflow much like a cop directing traffic. A fan exhausting out the top will change the direction flow compared to the fan exhausting out the rear.

The Navy taught HVAC, that heat is not removed, its transferred. Principles are the same as for a "blackshoe" (those that worked below deck ) boiler tech, but the practices are not. Watching this thread argue about which of the two different applications of thermal-dynamics really is hilarious.

The best practice is still, K.I.S.S., Keep it simple stupid.


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## Jetster (Oct 8, 2018)

http://www.scienceclarified.com/eve...ol-3-Physics-Vol-1/Bernoulli-s-Principle.html

This used the example of an aircraft wing and a shower curtain


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## FireFox (Oct 8, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Air that goes in == air that goes out. No matter the configuration, you can't defy the laws that govern air pressure. The only thing that you can influence is where most of that air goes out.



Yeap, but with exhaust fans the air takes less time to go out.


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## 95Viper (Oct 8, 2018)

Let's stay on OP's topic, please.


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## RCoon (Oct 8, 2018)

OP has not responded, you're all literally talking to yourselves. Thread closed until OP shows up and asks for it to be opened again.


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## vonKoga (Oct 12, 2018)

Sorry for the late response, I have read all of your answers. I added fan on the back of the case and Hyper 212 Evo on the CPU, it looks fine for now, CPU temp is around 50 °C while GPU is around 65 °C (while gaming), but i reckon it's normal. If you have time just write which CPU would be nice upgrade to my current configuration,  I don't want to spend more than $250

Thanks!


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## John Naylor (Oct 13, 2018)

looniam said:


> i don't care how many positive vs negative air pressure gifs are used; there is NO WAY a vent will have the same air flow without a fan as with. well unless its a crappy fan . .but you know what i mean.



What moves more air ?

100 CFM fan => Building => Exhaust Vent
Intake Vent => Building => Exhaust Fan

Neither, the flow is exactly the same.  Been practicing engineering for 42 years, additional  info, boss (wifie) just said it's gonna cost ya $180 / hr.


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## Splinterdog (Oct 13, 2018)

Sounds like @vonKoga sorted his cooling very nicely, so apart from his wish for a new CPU, the rest is a bit moot now isn't it?


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## John Naylor (Oct 13, 2018)

looniam said:


> 1 Rear (Exhaust) Fan = CPU: 64C | GPU: 85C
> 1 Top (Exhaust) Fan = CPU: 65C | GPU: 83C
> 1 Front (Intake) Fan = CPU: 67C | GPU: 80C



In the the single exhaust situation, the PC is receiving its intake air from, numerous sources ... pulling air thru the front intake fan location is the path of **highest resistance**.  

When he adds the 2 exhaust fans, he has a negative pressure situation ... and where is the air coming in ?    Thru the giant holes in the rear case grille ! ! ! .   Where is the intake air coming from ? ... the GFX card and PSU exhaust.  Duh it got hotter.   Someone should suggest he do a test with a  fog machine and see where the air is coming from.  Best use of that case, 1 rear fan out, everything else in.

"Ummm top fans out and rear fans out ?????    Next time use a fog machine and a big FAIL becomes immediately apparent.  The negative pressure situation is sucking in outside air into the case from the case rear.  What also in the way of air is at those giant case grille holes at the rear of the case especially when case sits on desk w/ rear against wall ?  No thought to the exhaust from that 650 watt PSU or 300 watt GPU GPU ?  Again, a $39 fog machine is a great tool to understand air flow.  However another reality hit .... how many cases exhaust out into the middle of the room ?  Are not most boxes on a desk with rear pushed against wall ?  Since we got the fog machine, it's been much easier to demonstrate to our users which way to install fans.  Thats why Corsair's instructions for their AIOs say "For best results, install fans with air blowing into the case".


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## FireFox (Oct 13, 2018)

Which scenario would be/work better:

2 x intake front + 2 x intake top + 1 x rear exhaust Vs 2 x intake front + 2 x Exhaust top + 1 x rear exhaust?


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## DeathtoGnomes (Oct 13, 2018)

Knoxx29 said:


> Which scenario would be/work better:
> 
> 2 x intake front + 2 x intake top + 1 x rear exhaust Vs 2 x intake front + 2 x Exhaust top + 1 x rear exhaust?



Heat rises, top intakes are never a good idea. I'd vote for 2 intake and either 1 top exhaust, 1 read exhaust OR 2 top exhaust and no rear exhaust.


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## vonKoga (Oct 14, 2018)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> Heat rises, top intakes are never a good idea. I'd vote for 2 intake and either 1 top exhaust, 1 read exhaust OR 2 top exhaust and no rear exhaust.



So it would be cooler if I add 1 top exhaust?


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## cucker tarlson (Oct 14, 2018)

vonKoga said:


> So it would be cooler if I add 1 top exhaust?


if you already have a rear exhaust then no.


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## Splinterdog (Oct 14, 2018)

On my CM Storm Trooper I use two front intakes mounted near the bottom and one rear exhaust. The water radiator fans suck in from the top.


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