# DRAM calculator for Zen 3



## Nekyno (Nov 7, 2020)

I have just attempted to tune my G Skill Flare X 3200c14 (Samsung B-die) memory on b550 tomahawk running Ryzen 5600x. My only try that booted was 3600Mhz on Safe calculation with MAX Voltages, only to find many errors in Memtest afterwards.

I have followed all the steps - 1. Get the report with Typhoon, 2. Load the XMP, 3. Enter Zen2/B450 and calculate everything....

Has anybody tried tuning RAM on Zen 3? Is it a general issue or do I have something wrong on my end?


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## VuurVOS (Nov 7, 2020)

Nekyno said:


> I have just attempted to tune my G Skill Flare X 3200c14 (Samsung B-die) memory on b550 tomahawk running Ryzen 5600x. My only try that booted was 3600Mhz on Safe calculation with MAX Voltages, only to find many errors in Memtest afterwards.
> 
> I have followed all the steps - 1. Get the report with Typhoon, 2. Load the XMP, 3. Enter Zen2/B450 and calculate everything....
> 
> Has anybody tried tuning RAM on Zen 3? Is it a general issue or do I have something wrong on my end?


3600MHz at which cas latency? Please provide all information


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## Nekyno (Nov 7, 2020)

VuurVOS said:


> 3600MHz at which cas latency? Please provide all information



I have set up what is in those black boxes. tRFC1/2/4 has been calculated on additional calculator. All other settings were left unchanged.


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## TheLostSwede (Nov 7, 2020)

As pointed out by 1usmus, you no longer need to change the "other" tRFC settings, just the primary.
Also, I wouldn't bother with most of the settings, as they have minimal impact on the performance.
Keep in mind that this is a tool that gives you approximate settings, some tuning might be needed to make it all stable.
In my case, this is what the calculator spits out and as you can see, I run some of the timings tighter than that.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 7, 2020)

You're probably going to need more than just 1.4V for 3600CL14... as usual, 1usmus' general voltage recommendations are...optimistic. I'd allow up to 1.45V. FlareX may be B-die, but it's far from Gskill's best or newest.

Have you already run 3600/14 on a prior board and CPU before, or is this your first shot?

VDDG and VDDP is a difficult topic, but DRAM calc recommendations are honestly wack, and consensus is that more is not always better. More SOC, mor VDDP can definitely harm your stability, though here the blatant test errors are pointing to insufficient DRAM voltage.


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## Anonymous1243 (Nov 7, 2020)

If you Google around you'll find lots of people not being able to get above 3200mhz on MSI boards anymore with new BIOS. I haven't seen MSI acknowledge it as an issue yet anywhere


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## VuurVOS (Nov 7, 2020)

Nekyno said:


> I have set up what is in those black boxes. tRFC1/2/4 has been calculated on additional calculator. All other settings were left unchanged.


Orginal 3600CL14 kits uses 1.45v. So 1.40v is too low.

tRFC values shouldnt be so high. You can change it to 360/267/165 (tRFC/tRFC2/tRFC4) when running at 3600MHz.

I would also set the following values to get better stability:
tRDRDSCL 4
tWRWRSCL 4
tRRDS 6
tRRDL 8
tWRTL 12

I am not sure if ZenTimings already works with the Ryzen 5000 series. If the application is working, please provide us the screenshot (https://zentimings.protonrom.com/)


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## Nekyno (Nov 7, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> You're probably going to need more than just 1.4V for 3600CL14... as usual, 1usmus' general voltage recommendations are...optimistic. I'd allow up to 1.45V. FlareX may be B-die, but it's far from Gskill's best or newest.
> 
> Have you already run 3600/14 on a prior board and CPU before, or is this your first shot?
> 
> VDDG and VDDP is a difficult topic, but DRAM calc recommendations are honestly wack, and consensus is that more is not always better. More SOC, mor VDDP can definitely harm your stability, though here the blatant test errors are pointing to insufficient DRAM voltage.




Nope this is a new build, I haven't had chance to test it prior with ideally Zen 2. Plus this is my first time tuning RAM.

I have been suspicious about those low voltages that has been thrown by the DRAM calculator. Would you suggest to do 1.45V RAM and leave motherboard voltages to AUTO?


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## thesmokingman (Nov 7, 2020)

Nekyno said:


> I have set up what is in those black boxes. tRFC1/2/4 has been calculated on additional calculator. All other settings were left unchanged.
> 
> View attachment 174777



lol, you're not gonna run that unless you have very highly binned b-dies. And 1.4v... The other major thing is you cannot trust dram calc verbatim, use it as a starting point but in no way is it guaranteed.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 7, 2020)

Nekyno said:


> Nope this is a new build, I haven't had chance to test it prior with ideally Zen 2. Plus this is my first time tuning RAM.
> 
> I have been suspicious about those low voltages that has been thrown by the DRAM calculator. Would you suggest to do 1.45V RAM and leave motherboard voltages to AUTO?



At 3600 or below, leave VSOC at 1.1 and leave VDDP and VDDG alone. Generally these board vendors know what they're doing, there's no reason to mess with them unless you're pushing beyond 3600, at which point VSOC might need to exceed 1.1V (and is a bit more complicated).

As long as you're keeping the DIMMs below 50C in a heavy memory test, you can go all the way up to 1.5V and you'll be fine. 1.45V should be about right.

The good thing about B-die is that if you have cheaper and worse binned B-die, you can _generally_ still manage the same "good" freqs and timings under 4000MT/s if you give it more DRAM voltage.


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## Nekyno (Nov 7, 2020)

VuurVOS said:


> Orginal 3600CL14 kits uses 1.45v. So 1.40v is too low.
> 
> tRFC values shouldnt be so high. You can change it to 360/267/165 (tRFC/tRFC2/tRFC4) when running at 3600MHz.
> 
> ...



I will try that! Thanks.


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## thesmokingman (Nov 7, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> At 3600 or below, leave VSOC at 1.1 and leave VDDP and VDDG alone. Generally these board vendors know what they're doing, there's no reason to mess with them unless you're pushing beyond 3600, at which point VSOC might need to exceed 1.1V (and is a bit more complicated).
> 
> As long as you're keeping the DIMMs below 50C in a heavy memory test, you can go all the way up to 1.5V and you'll be fine. 1.45V should be about right.
> 
> The good thing about B-die is that if you have cheaper and worse binned B-die, you can _generally_ still manage the same "good" freqs and timings under 4000MT/s if you give it more DRAM voltage.



If you have to go over 1,1v on SOC you will invite WHEA errors into the mix.

And the thing with bins, there's that dram revision drop down box. Imo a lot of errors come from people exceeding the reality of their dram chip's binning. Most should be using the drop down that picks the slower timings...


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## Nekyno (Nov 7, 2020)

So I have just tested 3400 14-14-14-14-28 1T at 1.4V and it survived Memtest86 for 15 minutes, one run of Cine R20 and Aida RAM test.

It seems that SOC Voltage left on AUTO is already doing 1.12V. Should I limit the SOC Voltage to 1.1V when going to 3600CL14 at 1.45v DRAM?


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## thesmokingman (Nov 7, 2020)

Nekyno said:


> It seems that SOC Voltage left on AUTO is already doing 1.12V. Should I limit the SOC Voltage to 1.1V when going to 3600CL14 at 1.45v DRAM?



No, if it's on auto leave it alone. The voltage isn't a one way street it depends on the load and current. Cpu voltage could show 1.45v which it will but again it is misleading until you know what the load and current is.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 7, 2020)

Nekyno said:


> So I have just tested 3400 14-14-14-14-28 1T at 1.4V and it survived Memtest86 for 15 minutes, one run of Cine R20 and Aida RAM test.
> 
> It seems that SOC Voltage left on AUTO is already doing 1.12V. Should I limit the SOC Voltage to 1.1V when going to 3600CL14 at 1.45v DRAM?



Those tests mean next to nothing. MT86 is far too slow for overclocking purposes (useful for testing a brand new kit you just bought, not so much for everything else), Cinebench literally does not touch memory, and AIDA is way too weak to be put in the same sentence as "stability testing".

Not sure why you're testing a frequency that you ultimately don't want to be at, with a voltage that won't work at the 3600/14 you mentioned...

Go directly to 3600/14 with 1.45V. Run HCI memtest (by opening enough concurrent 2-3GB instances to fill almost all your memory), or use Karhu, or anta777's configuration for Testmem5. If you can pass 30min-1hr of any of these, then we'll talk about the other timings.

If you still can't make 3600/14 with 1.5V, then relax it to 16-16-16 and run 1.35-1.4V and call it a day.

Uou can relax tRCD and tRP; you don't need to run flat timings.


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## Nekyno (Nov 7, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Those tests mean next to nothing. MT86 is far too slow for overclocking purposes (useful for testing a brand new kit you just bought, not so much for everything else), Cinebench literally does not touch memory, and AIDA is way too weak to be put in the same sentence as "stability testing".
> 
> Not sure why you're testing a frequency that you ultimately don't want to be at, with a voltage that won't work at the 3600/14 you mentioned...
> 
> ...



I just booted with 3600CL14 at 1.45V and I am about to launch HCI memtest, wish me luck.

After roughly 50 minutes there are no errors. One of the RAM reached 40C and RAM Voltage reached momentarily 1.456V. 
*Many thanks for help!*


Extreme profile in DRAM calculator with my XMP loaded is showing following changes:

tWR:  26 -> 14
tRFC: 351 -> 288
tRTP: 10 -> 8

Top revision of B-die on SAFE calculation is a bit more adventurous:




If you have any suggestions on timings to try, or better yet, a good material to study so I can actually understand what I am doing, I would be grateful.

From what I've read 1.45V is pretty safe on B-die, with some suggesting 1.5V is fine still. What do you think?

Currently, I am unsure whether 3800Mhz and above would be worth sacrificing latency.


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## Anonymous1243 (Nov 7, 2020)

Did you actually gain performance? Nobody else is having success: 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/jpya2n


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## Nekyno (Nov 7, 2020)

Dreamic said:


> Did you actually gain performance? Nobody else is having success:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What helped me is to leave all motherboard voltage settings to AUTO, when I used to override them to specific voltage I often couldn't boot either. It's fair to say that I have been trying with lower DRAM Voltage before so it might've been due to that.

Stock with PBO:


3600CL14 OC:




VuurVOS said:


> Orginal 3600CL14 kits uses 1.45v. So 1.40v is too low.
> 
> tRFC values shouldnt be so high. You can change it to 360/267/165 (tRFC/tRFC2/tRFC4) when running at 3600MHz.
> 
> ...



So far I haven't been able to open ZenTimings v1.2, not sure where the issue is.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 7, 2020)

@Nekyno looks reasonable for just getting the basics dialed in. Though I suspect it will take some time to understand exactly how much latency difference there should be between Zen 2 and 3 with the exact same memory.

You can follow the Memtesthelper guide to dial in some secondaries and tertiaries. It's on github. If you want, you can use HCI to help you test and shave off unnecessary volts that you dont need for stability. Less volts = less heat = more good

To finalize your overclock run some Prime95 Large FFT setting for about an hour (to stress the memory controller and see how your sticks do under near-max heat), and run HCI overnight at near full capacity. If no errors, you should be set.

As for the random firmware freakouts like the insane latency on Reddit, it's going to take some time for firmware to iron out its bugs.


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## Zach_01 (Nov 7, 2020)

@Nekyno why did you set B450/X470 on DRAMcalculator? Dont you have your 5600X on B550/X570 board?

This is me with 1.47V for DRAM:









And that HWmonitor is for museum in front of HWiNFO


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## Nekyno (Nov 7, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> You can follow the Memtesthelper guide to dial in some secondaries and tertiaries. It's on github. If you want, you can use HCI to help you test and shave off unnecessary volts that you dont need for stability. Less volts = less heat = more good



Thanks a lot. I have found the guide helpful. Link below:









						MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at master · integralfx/MemTestHelper
					

C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com
				




As far as shaving off Voltages, I am already ahead of you. 1.42V was unstable, so I am running 1.43V on HCI.



Zach_01 said:


> @Nekyno why did you set B450/X470 on DRAMcalculator? Dont you have your 5600X on B550/X570 board?
> 
> This is me with 1.47V for DRAM:
> 
> ...



I tested switching motherboard, it changed literally nothing. Nice timings, what RAM are you running?


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## Zach_01 (Nov 7, 2020)

You should set DRAMcalculator on X570, even though you have a B550. B450/X470 might be much different from 500series boards and the DRAM oc requirements.

I have these Corsair Vengeance LPX:


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## Nekyno (Nov 8, 2020)

So apparently the best OC on zen 3 is to actually run 4 memory sticks. 

This just landed at gamers nexus.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 8, 2020)

Nekyno said:


> So apparently the best OC on zen 3 is to actually run 4 memory sticks.
> 
> This just landed at gamers nexus.




im starting to regret everything in life.


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## Nekyno (Nov 8, 2020)

Brief update. I further knocked down some secondary and tertiary timings. Results below:


I am gonna test it first at 1.43V DRAM . 1.44V should work for sure.

This is starting to be an obsession for me so I am gonna have to quit fast before it consumes even more of my time and energy.

Interestingly enough, RAM OC has nearly no effect on Cinebench R20 or Passmark CPU bench compared to stock 3200CL14. Maybe something is bugged right now, given those 4stick setups are showing much better performance.

I thought I would post sources I found helpful.

OC Guide:








						MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at master · integralfx/MemTestHelper
					

C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com
				




Timings explained:



			RAM timings knowledge base.
		






						DDR3 Memory Timings Explained | MSI HQ User-to-User FAQ
					

<p>An explanation of DDR3 and memory timings.</p>



					forum-en.msi.com
				











						systemverilog.io
					

systemverilog.io is a resource that explains concepts related to ASIC, FPGA and system design. It covers a wide variety of topics such as understanding the basics of DDR4, SytemVerilog language constructs, UVM, Formal Verification, Signal Integrity and Physical Design.




					www.systemverilog.io
				




Visualization:
https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/lectures/ece348/08_bus_memory_handouts.pdf Page 18 and further.

Book (1k pages):








						Cache and Memory Hierarchy Design
					

An authoritative book for hardware and software designers. Caches are by far the simplest and most effective mechanism for improving computer performance. This innovative book exposes the characteristics of performance-optimal single and multi-level cache hierarchies by approaching the cache...



					books.google.cz
				



Available via Scribd subscription: https://www.scribd.com/book/282518929/Memory-Systems-Cache-DRAM-Disk


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## Ampeg (Nov 8, 2020)

Hey hoping I can piggy back off this thread.

I've been trying to lower my timings and I'm relatively new to all of this. Can anyone suggest what timings to go after next?












I have the dimm voltage set to 1.45v in BIOS.
Sticks I'm using are Gskill F4-3800C14D-16GTZN.

Thanks in advance, any help/advice is appreciated!

EDIT: I have done 3 successful passes of Memtest86+ with these timings / voltage.


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## Zach_01 (Nov 8, 2020)

Ampeg said:


> Hey hoping I can piggy back off this thread.
> 
> I've been trying to lower my timings and I'm relatively new to all of this. Can anyone suggest what timings to go after next?
> 
> ...


Those are nice sticks!

tRRDS, tFAW, tWR... and also how is your GearDownMode?
A ZenTimings screenshot will be helpful to show all DRAM settings.
tFAW must always be x4~6 of tRRDS.


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## Ampeg (Nov 8, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Those are nice sticks!
> 
> tRRDS, tFAW, tWR... and also how is your GearDownMode?
> A ZenTimings screenshot will be helpful to show all DRAM settings.
> tFAW must always be x4~6 of tRRDS.



Hey thanks for the response.

I tried to launch ZenTimings and it doesn't pop up. I can see it try to start in task manager, but then it just disappears.

It shows my GearDownMode is disabled.. Is that something I should enable? I'll try and look at that in a bit to see if I can find it.

EDIT: Checked in the BIOS. GearDownMode is greyed out set to [Auto] and I'm unable to change it.


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## Zach_01 (Nov 8, 2020)

Ampeg said:


> Hey thanks for the response.
> 
> I tried to launch ZenTimings and it doesn't pop up. I can see it try to start in task manager, but then it just disappears.
> 
> ...


Don't know whats that with ZenTimings...

GearDownMode when enabled it loosens some timings despite the settings. ("odd" numbers to next "even").
Some BIOSs when you set manually the CR(Cmd) to 1T they gray out GDM. You must first alter CR to auto, adjust GDM and then set CR to 1T again. Know that if now GDM is enabled and you disabled it, it may cause instability, but if its still stable it may decrease some latencies further.

I have it enabled because my sticks not so good...


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## Ampeg (Nov 8, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Don't know whats that with ZenTimings...
> 
> GearDownMode when enabled it loosens some timings despite the settings. ("odd" numbers to next "even").
> Some BIOSs when you set manually the CR(Cmd) to 1T they gray out GDM. You must first alter CR to auto, adjust GDM and then set CR to 1T again. Know that if now GDM is enabled and you disabled it, it may cause instability, but if its still stable it may decrease some latencies further.
> ...



Yeah, for some reason ZenTimings isn't running on Zen3 from what I can tell.

Here are my new results and my current timings. (Let me know if you'd like to see any others)









Thanks again for all of your help. It's greatly appreciated.


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## harm9963 (Nov 8, 2020)

Ampeg said:


> Hey hoping I can piggy back off this thread.
> 
> I've been trying to lower my timings and I'm relatively new to all of this. Can anyone suggest what timings to go after next?
> 
> ...



Try MEMbench -default test , report  temps please.


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## Ampeg (Nov 9, 2020)

harm9963 said:


> Try MEMbench -default test , report  temps please.



Ran the test and had to back off some timings to not throw an error.

Ran through it without an error now, but any idea why my time is so awful? 312s vs 196s?

Is this anything to do possibly with the MSI RAM/BIOS issues they're having?

EDIT: Dimm voltage set to 1.45v in BIOS, shows as 1.472v in HWInfo

Thanks for your help.


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## thesmokingman (Nov 9, 2020)

Are you watching for WHEA errors too?


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## Zach_01 (Nov 9, 2020)

Ampeg said:


> Ran the test and had to back off some timings to not throw an error.
> 
> Ran through it without an error now, but any idea why my time is so awful? 312s vs 196s?
> 
> ...


Dont pay to much attention to "Best result" Nobody catches that one...



PS:
5.05GHz? Nice...!!


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## harm9963 (Nov 9, 2020)

Ampeg said:


> Ran the test and had to back off some timings to not throw an error.
> 
> Ran through it without an error now, but any idea why my time is so awful? 312s vs 196s?
> 
> ...



What are your MB spec, have the latest bios and chipset.


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## Zach_01 (Nov 9, 2020)

harm9963 said:


> What are your MB spec, have the latest bios and chipset.


If you're asking what board he has, its MSI X570 Tomahawk


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## harm9963 (Nov 9, 2020)

harm9963 said:


> What are your MB spec, have the latest bios and chipset.


Updated AMD AGESA ComboAm4v2PI 1.1.0.0 Patch C , 11-4-2020





						MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI | RETURN TO HONOR
					

Military style with Pre-installed IO shielding, tuned for better performance by Core Boost, DDR4 Boost, M.2 Shield Frozr, Wi-Fi 6, Frozr Heatsink Design, Lightning Gen4




					us.msi.com
				



https://www.amd.com/en/support/chipsets/amd-socket-am4/x570 -
Revision Number
2.10.13.408









						TechPowerUp
					

MemTest64 is a free system memory stability and error detection software for all Intel and AMD processors. It runs on 64 bit Windows without installation.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## northvisit (Nov 9, 2020)

I think your membench time 312 looks quite big (and also read speed 42,2 GB/s a bit low). I have slower memory, but only 6-core CPU and smaller time 212 (default). I dont know if results depend at all on core count but I assume it should be the same. This is a memory test. Do you have some other program running in background consuming CPU load? There is some bios issues with MSI (and other as well) that could still be a problem as you suggested but I can not confirm if this is the case. Some complain also multicore(!!) boost clocks. How does CB20 results look? Are these about as expected?


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## Nekyno (Nov 9, 2020)

I have created another thread as I have encountered issues with manual adjustment to SoC and cLDO VDDP, VDDG voltages.

Long story short, when OCing memory I have to set the stock values manually otherwise they go sky high. Once I do, SoC power draw goes 1.6x up. While keeping the same PPT, that means CPU Power runs 3W lower on the stock RAM.









						Ryzen 5600x - SoC Power +60% when VDDCR SoC, CLDO VDDP/G are set manually.
					

When I was tuning memory I noticed that SoC Voltage has increased by a huge margin.  I thought about it and went ahead and tested 2 configurations to confirm my hypothesis that manual voltage setting causes SoC Power draw to go up.  1. Stock config, memory set to XMP. SOC - Auto VDDP - Auto VDDG...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Zach_01 (Nov 9, 2020)

northvisit said:


> I think your membench time 312 looks quite big (and also read speed 42,2 GB/s a bit low). I have slower memory, but only 6-core CPU and smaller time 212 (default). I dont know if results depend at all on core count but I assume it should be the same. This is a memory test. Do you have some other program running in background consuming CPU load? There is some bios issues with MSI (and other as well) that could still be a problem as you suggested but I can not confirm if this is the case. Some complain also multicore(!!) boost clocks. How does CB20 results look? Are these about as expected?
> View attachment 175001View attachment 175002


Not comparable, his with yours and mine...
Its 12 threads vs 16threads (task scope 180 vs 240)


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## Ampeg (Nov 9, 2020)

I did some more tinkering last night. I can't explain why Aida and memtest read speeds are 10,000 MB/s different?

14-16-16-16-36 @ 1.45v in BIOS.








14-14-14-14-28 @ 1.5v in BIOS




When I leave it on auto and XMP it shows up as 1.52v as well, so I assume it's a safe voltage?
I'm not sure which to leave it on for now.. although I'll probably tinker with it some more at some point especially when MSI fixes their BIOS/RAM issue.

EDIT: Here's my Cinebench R20 result as requested above. (Not sure if this is where it should be compared to others with the 5800X?)


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## Zach_01 (Nov 9, 2020)

You cannot compare AIDA64 with MEMbench. Different software, different measuring method. You can only compare different settings on the same software.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 9, 2020)

@Ampeg some things here - your RRDS/RRDL/FAW and WTRS/WTRL/WR are looser than a bucket of fishing worms, tRFC is stupidly high for 1T B-die. At the very least, you should be able to do 4/6/16, 4/12/12 and 350 or so without adding voltage to what you're already using now.

There are some minute differences in performance between different core count SKUs, but membench results are generally roughly comparable to see where your memory performance lies. In this case, 277-300+sec is pretty damn terrible for 3800CL14.

AIDA doesn't care too much about secondaries, but membench certainly does if your timings are that loose.

After you properly spend time on the secondaries, I wouldn't be surprised if this all gets better once a more mature AGESA firmware hits the shelves. Ryzen 5000 does appear to behave a little differently on the memory side than Ryzen 3000, more so than AMD initially let on. From the custom latency of 3ns, it's pretty obvious that DRAM calc hasn't been updated to reflect Zen 3's 8-core CCD. So get your timings in order now, then wait till the software and firmware are updated, then try again.

Here's some old 4Gb E-die that behaves similarly to B-die:



And stop posting your Cinebench results. It's not a memory benchmark or stability test and gains nothing from faster memory.


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## Ampeg (Nov 9, 2020)

@tabascosauz Thanks for the info. Helps a lot! 

I re-ran MEMbench with the settings you suggested and it still threw a single error @ 1.5v set in BIOS. (Tested from 1.45v to 1.5v)

Which timings would you suggest I back off on to find out what's stable?
Additionally, do you know if over 40C is too hot? The sticks are rated to run at 1.5v, but I'm not 100% sure if I need them to stay cooler than that.

Screenshot below of the test.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 9, 2020)

@Ampeg for starters, turn Geardown on. It costs you about 3sec on Easy and a bit more on Default, but the stability boost is massive. If you _really _want the 3 seconds, you can try to pump more voltage or mess with Clkdrv strengths, but I recommend neither at this point in time. There's plenty of room to tighten timings from what they are right now, after you get rid of the instability.

Try that, then run membench. Better yet, download HCI Memtest and run a stability test for about an hour - the free version limits you to 3GB of RAM per instance, so just keep opening instances of HCI until you can fill about all of your RAM save for 2GB or so left for Windows, and test all of the instances concurrently. Like, membench literally includes HCI.exe and uses that in its extremely short and light "stability" test, so you may as well use the actual program instead of a half-assed quickie in membench.

HCI catches Geardown off instability _really_ quickly, so if it ends up being stable in HCI, you'll know what was up with the instability.

40C is cool as a cucumber. Start thinking about more airflow if you hit 50C in HCI.


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## northvisit (Nov 9, 2020)

Looks your results are already much better and about in good values for B-die. I would not be worried about the results. Maybe coming bios/agesa releases will improve RAM performance. Many other people seem to have problems with RAM (with zen 3) and also multicore boosts in MSI motherboards in other discussions (mainly reddit), but our results seem pretty good. I asked CB20 results just to check there is nothing strange with the system (actually poor bios). Your single core clock and also multicore (CB20 result) look just fine and actually good. CB20 test does not test RAM speeds at all but it is one method to validate CPU performance to see whether there is some problem which could affect also in (other) RAM tests.


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## Ampeg (Nov 9, 2020)

@tabascosauz Turning GDM on did the trick! I was able to lower voltage to 1.45v and didn't lose any time compared to my other run with GDM disabled.

Would you recommend still running HCI memtest with my current settings? Or would you say MEMbench is sufficient at this point?

Thanks again for your help!





@northvisit Interesting that you mention the MSI all core boost issue, do you have a link to a thread on that? I noticed that mine is 100-150mhz lower than my friend with a 5800X + Asus board. I had just chalked it up to silicon lottery. Appreciate your help / advice as well!


----------



## northvisit (Nov 9, 2020)

There is some discussion here; 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/MSI_Gaming/comments/jp3f47
There is also discussions about RAM issues as well. No idea how common issue these are (or not),

Personally I believe you dont have same issue at least in that extent. Your CB20 score was over 5900 points. Some tests (hardware unboxed etc) show only slightly bigger numbers. In the results (CB20 and membench) all background tasks affect negatively so have you checked active background tasks? Also motherboard vendor settings (default limits etc) and CPU silicon lottery affect as you said. Also cooling have some impacts. At least somewhere was tested golden 5950x which showed better results due lower power consumption. So all 16 cores had higher boost clocks (and temps) than others as the used 142W power limit did not limit the performance. Clocks could be kept higher in 25-32 thread loads. Have you compared something like 12-14 thread clocks? If this is power limiting issue then PBO setting for PPT (or TDP) can help. I have at least those settings in my MSI B450 board in overclocking setting. In my case (chip) I can not get practically any performance improvement so not worth to PBO OC for me. Maybe minor max thread boosts but as said it is minimal. I preferred only set a small (0.075mV) negative offset for lower temps (lower fan noise) and power consumption as well smaller vCore voltages. It just feels a bit better to have below max 1,4V for a CPU even close 1,5 is not a problem in zen2. It is not constant but maximun short term voltage. Manual OC with constant voltages over 1,25-1.35V may be problematic for long tern (silicon decration).


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 9, 2020)

@Ampeg good results to see. I'm surprised you didn't lose any on account of Geardown. At this point, 4/6/16 - 4/12/12 offers a respectable performance baseline if you want to leave it there, or if you want to go further the github Memtesthelper guide offers some further info if you want to push for 4/4/16 - 4/10/10 or further on your own. Personally, I'd leave it as it is and enjoy.

Still worth doing HCI overnight or at least to 1000% completion on each instance (percentage in the bottom of the window) to catch intermittent errors, and doing a half hour or an hour of Prime95 LargeFFT to heat things up.

At this point I'm not sure if overnight HCI is worth it, since AGESA is (if reports believed) quite unstable right now. I do 200% if I don't have time, 400% if I want to use it for the rest of the week, 5000% if I want it completely stable.

@northvisit small offset up to 0.075V with LLC (0.05V without LLC) can give you lower load temps while sacrificing little or no multi threaded performance, but can negatively affect single thread scores. Back when I first got my 3700X I used -0.075V and the MT benchmarks looked great, but games suffered. Not to mention HWInfo's "1.4-1.5V" Vcore is not only completely harmless, but highly misleading if you ever take a look at what the CPU is actually doing in idle through Ryzen Master.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 9, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> @Ampeg good results to see. I'm surprised you didn't lose any on account of Geardown. At this point, 4/6/16 - 4/12/12 offers a respectable performance baseline if you want to leave it there, or if you want to go further the github Memtesthelper guide offers some further info if you want to push for 4/4/16 - 4/10/10 or further on your own. Personally, I'd leave it as it is and enjoy.
> 
> Still worth doing HCI overnight or at least to 1000% completion on each instance (percentage in the bottom of the window) to catch intermittent errors, and doing a half hour or an hour of Prime95 LargeFFT to heat things up.
> 
> ...




just do light oc right now - wait for new BIOS AMD already said one is coming.


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## Ampeg (Nov 11, 2020)

I wanted to give a quick update with my results over the last day or so, also in case this ever helps anyone else.

No idea if this will translate into real world fps / benefits, but I had fun whittling away at the time.  






Thanks again to everyone who helped!


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## Zach_01 (Nov 11, 2020)

Very nice tight settings!
How is AIDA64 now?


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## Ampeg (Nov 11, 2020)

@Zach_01


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## Zach_01 (Nov 11, 2020)

I was expecting though that bandwidth would be over 60GB (Read/Copy)





Off topic...
So how is your thermals with 5800X?

Have you seen this?









						Ryzen 5800 owners complain about very high MT load temps
					

my 3700X pulls way more than 88W try double it's TDP at 135.8W during CBr20 multi mind you it's also pulling an all core of 4450MHz and reaches 77c  That is interesting... Can you show to us a screenshot of HWiNFO sensors mode, full window, during R20 MultiT?




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Ampeg (Nov 11, 2020)

@Zach_01 

Yeah, not sure on over 60k, could still be some early BIOS / AGESA issues?

Read through that thread a bit.. here are my results.

CPU on Auto - 4.45Ghz all core sustained



CPU @ 4.7Ghz - 1.35V in BIOS





I haven't had a chance to fine tune any settings, but it seems like Auto isn't doing a great job of what can be done MT wise? 

Let me know if you'd like to see anything else.


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 11, 2020)

@Ampeg 

can you give us an exact screenshot of your final settings for these speeds?  you posted one earlier but it only showed timings, not the right side of calculator where voltages would have been, powerdown mode, etc..


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## Zach_01 (Nov 11, 2020)

Ampeg said:


> @Zach_01
> 
> Yeah, not sure on over 60k, could still be some early BIOS / AGESA issues?
> 
> ...


Both are impresive results
But... you have (probably) a lot of essential sensors hidden.

Temp wise
Does this CPU have a "CPU (Tctl/Tdie)" temp reading? This is the absolute core die hotspot on ZEN2. A reading that switches between all sensors across the core die and report instantly always the highest one. These CPUs have over 50 temp sensors on each core die alone.
"CPU Die (average)" is the avg temp from all sensors combined.
"CPU CCD1 is a reading from one specific sensor on one side of the core die.

Also sensors:

"PPT"  and "PPT limit"
"EDC" and "EDC limit"
"TDC" and "TDC limit"
"Power Reporting Deviation (Accuracy)"

can tell a lot about the power draw of the CPU and if exceed its intended limits.

PowerReportingDeviation





						Explaining the AMD Ryzen "Power Reporting Deviation" -metric in HWiNFO
					

Ryzen CPUs for AM4 platform rely on external, motherboard sourced telemetry to determine their power consumption. The voltage, current and power telemetry is provided to the processor by the motherboard VRM controller through the AMD SVI2 interface. This information is consumed by the processors...




					www.hwinfo.com
				




"Core x Tx effective clock" for each thread is reporting the effective clock of each core and thread including all the power C-states (C0/C1/C6)
"Core x C0 Residency" is the active state
"Core x C1 Residency" is a low power state(sleep)
"Core x C6 Residency" is the lowest power state(deep sleep)






						Effective clock vs instant (discrete) clock
					

It has become a common practice for several years to report instant (discrete) clock values for CPUs. This method is based on knowledge of the actual bus clock (BCLK) and sampling of core ratios at specific time points. The resulting clock is then a simple result of ratio * BCLK. Such approach...




					www.hwinfo.com
				




Voltage wise

"CPU x VID" doesn't mean anything really. This is just a voltage asked by each core (VID = *V*oltage *I D*emand). But only one voltage is provided to the cores and that you can see as accurate as possible on the "CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN)". Same for the SoC voltage the "SoC voltage (SVI2 TFN)". Those are readings drawn straight from CPU it self. "Vcore" is from board sensor and not so accurate.

Also there is a new version of HWiNFO adding and/or fixing some metrics for Vermeer/ZEN3 CPUs. Keep this on tracking as there will be more I guess.






						HWiNFO v6.35-4305 Beta released
					

HWiNFO v6.35-4305 Beta available.  Changes:  Enhanced sensor monitoring on ASUS H570, B560, H510 and Q570 series. Added reporting of Precision Boost Clock Limit and Automatic OC Offset on AMD Vermeer. Fixed monitoring of CPU power and HTC status on AMD Zen3.




					www.hwinfo.com
				




The (perf #x/x) numbers you see next to discrete Core x Clock is the core performance/"quality" order. Second (x/*x)* is the actual perf order and first (*x*/x) is what windows choose to load more first. From light loads and upwards.
This is reflected directly in the effective clock of each core and thread and also on the C-states residency.


----------



## Ampeg (Nov 11, 2020)

@lynx29 









@Zach_01 

CPU @ Auto




CPU @ 1.35v - 4.7Ghz





Hoping this is what you're looking for. I'm fairly new to this, so if there's anything I missed this time around, please let me know. 

I would love to learn it all, so everything so far from everyone has been greatly appreciated.


----------



## Zach_01 (Nov 12, 2020)

Can you lower voltage from 1.35V? and was that actually sustained (1.35V) during R20 run or did Vdroop some?

I can see power consumption and temp drop when using the static 4.7GHz but I don’t know if that high Current of 205A vs 140A of stock can affect silicon, long term.

Have you ever tried to run stock boosting with core voltage (minus)offset?

And one more... PRD(Accuracy) reading is only active at stock settings. Have you seen what value is produced during the 100% load. This tells about, if you board is lying about the CPU power consumption.


----------



## Ampeg (Nov 13, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Can you lower voltage from 1.35V? and was that actually sustained (1.35V) during R20 run or did Vdroop some?
> 
> I can see power consumption and temp drop when using the static 4.7GHz but I don’t know if that high Current of 205A vs 140A of stock can affect silicon, long term.
> 
> ...



There was definitely Vdroop.

When I change from 'Auto' to 'AMD Overclock' Ryzen Master changes the EDC from 140A limit to 280A limit. Not sure what that means.. 280A sounds scary though! 

When I touch the core voltage offset at all.. I get very weird voltages.. and the CPU sits on 3800mhz even on auto. Haven't messed with it too much, but I do believe they said undervolting is coming in a future AGESA, so maybe that's why it's acting weird.


----------



## DuxCro (Nov 13, 2020)

Here is something interesting. I tried RAM overclocking on my ZEN 2 R5 3600. Going from default 2400MHz to 3800MHz and infinity clock in 1:1 ratio, i got a very nice performance boost in Deus EX: Mankind divided benchmark. From 115 to 138fps. It wasn't on max settings. idk which combination it was any more.

Now i have ZEN 3 5900X and i also tried the same benchmark with RAM at 2400MHz, 3800MHz and also 4000MHz. FCLK and uclk in 1:1 ratio even at 4000MHz RAM.
Absolutely no difference in framerate in the benchmark. What the hell is going on?


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 13, 2020)

DuxCro said:


> Here is something interesting. I tried RAM overclocking on my ZEN 2 R5 3600. Going from default 2400MHz to 3800MHz and infinity clock in 1:1 ratio, i got a very nice performance boost in Deus EX: Mankind divided benchmark. From 115 to 138fps. It wasn't on max settings. idk which combination it was any more.
> 
> Now i have ZEN 3 5900X and i also tried the same benchmark with RAM at 2400MHz, 3800MHz and also 4000MHz. FCLK and uclk in 1:1 ratio even at 4000MHz RAM.
> Absolutely no difference in framerate in the benchmark. What the hell is going on?


GPU-limited? What GPU, resolution and setting? Try the SOTTR, there you get CPU game avg fps and status on how much GPU is bottlenecking.


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## TheLostSwede (Nov 13, 2020)

Ampeg said:


> @lynx29
> 
> View attachment 175320View attachment 175319View attachment 175318
> 
> ...


Just a tip, if you plug in a FAT32 formatted USB drive while in the UEFI, you can usually grab screenshots that will be auto saved to it, by pressing F12 or a similar key.


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## Ampeg (Nov 13, 2020)

DuxCro said:


> Here is something interesting. I tried RAM overclocking on my ZEN 2 R5 3600. Going from default 2400MHz to 3800MHz and infinity clock in 1:1 ratio, i got a very nice performance boost in Deus EX: Mankind divided benchmark. From 115 to 138fps. It wasn't on max settings. idk which combination it was any more.
> 
> Now i have ZEN 3 5900X and i also tried the same benchmark with RAM at 2400MHz, 3800MHz and also 4000MHz. FCLK and uclk in 1:1 ratio even at 4000MHz RAM.
> Absolutely no difference in framerate in the benchmark. What the hell is going on?



@DuxCro You're likely GPU bound/limited. I have the same issue.

Run the SOTTR demo benchmark and the bottom right corner with your results will likely say "GPU Bound 100%".




TheLostSwede said:


> Just a tip, if you plug in a FAT32 formatted USB drive while in the UEFI, you can usually grab screenshots that will be auto saved to it, by pressing F12 of a similar key.



@TheLostSwede - Great tip! Thank you!


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## bpgt64 (Nov 14, 2020)

My memory clocks are apparently shit, but my CPU is doing good;


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## QueueCumber (Nov 15, 2020)

Hi Ampeg,

Thank you for posting your findings for those memory modules!

I have the same RAM and your settings above plugged right in and worked with my 5950x at 1900 fabric clock. It helped me raise my 3D Mark scores substantially in the 3D Mark Hall of Fame (I'm temporarily number 10 in ALL Time Spy and number 7 in 2x SLI Time Spy and number 11 in Time Spy Extreme for SLI and number 12 for ALL Time Spy Extreme).









						I scored 33 312 in Time Spy
					

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 2, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




					www.3dmark.com
				












						I scored 18 370 in Time Spy Extreme
					

AMD Ryzen 9 5950X, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 2, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




					www.3dmark.com
				




Solid work!


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## Ampeg (Nov 16, 2020)

@QueueCumber - Glad I could help!


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## Anonymous1243 (Nov 17, 2020)

Is there anything I can do to hit 1900 FCLK if I've tried all the settings on the Main page and can't post above 1867?



5800x MSI B550 Tomahawk latest BIOS. Did I just lose the lottery?


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## Taraquin (Nov 17, 2020)

Dreamic said:


> Is there anything I can do to hit 1900 FCLK if I've tried all the settings on the Main page and can't post above 1867?
> View attachment 175950
> 5800x MSI B550 Tomahawk latest BIOS. Did I just lose the lottery?


You could try SOC 1.2 and VDDG IOD 1.15V.  First you could try 1.15 SOC and 1.1V VDDG IOD. The first values are a bit too high for my liking, but I know some guys who use them daily What happends when trying 1900? No boot? Unstable?



Ampeg said:


> @Zach_01
> 
> View attachment 175237


Good result! Could you try shadow of the tomb raider benchmark if you have it? 1080p medium quality? Look at CPU game fps.


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## Ampeg (Nov 17, 2020)

@Dreamic - You're going for 1900 FCLK but using 3600mhz timings? Could try using 3800mhz timings or you could try mine that I posted earlier in the thread.

@Taraquin - I'm still 100% GPU bound at medium, so let me know if you want something else tested. (Need a new GPU badly)


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## thesmokingman (Nov 17, 2020)

Ampeg said:


> @Zach_01
> 
> View attachment 175237



That's about as tight as it'll go on Zen 3. You dropped around 9-10ns off stock.


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## Space Lynx (Nov 17, 2020)

@Zach_01 can I get your ram settings?


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## Taraquin (Nov 17, 2020)

Ampeg said:


> @Dreamic - You're going for 1900 FCLK but using 3600mhz timings? Could try using 3800mhz timings or you could try mine that I posted earlier in the thread.
> 
> @Taraquin - I'm still 100% GPU bound at medium, so let me know if you want something else tested. (Need a new GPU badly)
> 
> View attachment 176021


I look at your CPU game avg\mins. That is what fps you would have gotten if you were 0% GPU-bound  Exclusive fullscreen can help a bit, also high performance power plan, but I think you are close to max


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## Anonymous1243 (Nov 18, 2020)

@Taraquin @Ampeg
Yea I just can't boot at 1900 FCLK, and I haven't tried 3800mhz because there's no point getting it stable if I can't boot 1900.
Currently testing 1867 but I don't think I can get CL14 3733 



AIDA 55ns latency, BIOS cannot set tRRDS lower than 4


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## Ampeg (Nov 18, 2020)

@Dreamic - You said latest BIOS.. is that 7C91vA51(Beta version) or 7C91vA4 ? I believe I read the one that activates SAM (7C91vA51) is known to have issues with hitting high FCLK.

EDIT: If you're on the beta, try flashing 7C91vA4 and try again.


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## Anonymous1243 (Nov 18, 2020)

Ampeg said:


> @Dreamic - You said latest BIOS.. is that 7C91vA51(Beta version) or 7C91vA4 ? I believe I read the one that activates SAM (7C91vA51) is known to have issues with hitting high FCLK.
> 
> EDIT: If you're on the beta, try flashing 7C91vA4 and try again.


7C91vA51, I actually got my 2nd 2x8gb kit for dual rank delivered the same day which I was waiting for and the WHEA/performance issues to be fixed before trying 3200/1600+. I could go back try to post 1900 but I heard others still are, and regardless going to need a new BIOS with fix if that's the case, which hopefully it is that would be nice.


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## thesmokingman (Nov 18, 2020)

Dreamic said:


> @Taraquin @Ampeg
> Yea I just can't boot at 1900 FCLK, and I haven't tried 3800mhz because there's no point getting it stable if I can't boot 1900.
> Currently testing 1867 but I don't think I can get CL14 3733
> 
> AIDA 55ns latency, BIOS cannot set tRRDS lower than 4



If you cannot boot with those settings that's your sign that that setting doesn't fit your ram. It's like pushing a square peg down a round hole. Look at the dram pcb revision drop down, A0 is like regular bin and A3 is like newer faster bin. Regardless ya have to find timings that work first. If nothing works then set timings to real slow then work ya way down. Stop shoving that square peg...


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## Anonymous1243 (Nov 18, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> If you cannot boot with those settings that's your sign that that setting doesn't fit your ram. It's like pushing a square peg down a round hole. Look at the dram pcb revision drop down, A0 is like regular bin and A3 is like newer faster bin. Regardless ya have to find timings that work first. If nothing works then set timings to real slow then work ya way down. Stop shoving that square peg...


Shouldn't it not matter if I can't even post 1900 FCLK with RAM at default 2133mhz? It's Patriot 4400C19 B-Die. I imported XMP into DRAM Calc from Thaiphoon. It's 100% stable at 3600C14 TM5 1usmus overnight and 3733C16 settings I posted so far for a couple hours, about to run overnight. I'm certain it can run 3800 and it's not the RAM holding me back, I can test 3800 tomorrow but there's not much of a point cause I lose 1:1 if CPU/Mobo BIOS can't hit 1900. I might check old BIOS as Ampeg suggested but that has issues of its own above 3200


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## Taraquin (Nov 18, 2020)

Dreamic said:


> @Taraquin @Ampeg
> Yea I just can't boot at 1900 FCLK, and I haven't tried 3800mhz because there's no point getting it stable if I can't boot 1900.
> Currently testing 1867 but I don't think I can get CL14 3733
> View attachment 176101
> AIDA 55ns latency, BIOS cannot set tRRDS lower than 4


If you want 1900 IF you must probably set SOC to 1.125V and VDDG IOD to 1.075V. SOC must always be 50mv higher than VDDG. Maybe a bit higher, my highest comfortable value is 1.15V soc and 1.1 vddg, but I know other who use up to 1.2V  soc and 1.15V vddg daily. TRRDS is in a 1:4 ratio with tFAW. Lowest active values are 4 and 16. Below that is not active values. You can try lowering tWR and tRRDL to 6, if that work try 4. TWR can be lowered to 12 and maybe 10. TRP will probably go lower, 11-13 should be possible. TRC might go a bit lower aswell.


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## Anonymous1243 (Nov 18, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> If you want 1900 IF you must probably set SOC to 1.125V and VDDG IOD to 1.075V. SOC must always be 50mv higher than VDDG. Maybe a bit higher, my highest comfortable value is 1.15V soc and 1.1 vddg, but I know other who use up to 1.2V  soc and 1.15V vddg daily. TRRDS is in a 1:4 ratio with tFAW. Lowest active values are 4 and 16. Below that is not active values. You can try lowering tWR and tRRDL to 6, if that work try 4. TWR can be lowered to 12 and maybe 10. TRP will probably go lower, 11-13 should be possible. TRC might go a bit lower aswell.


Thanks, it just doesn't want to boot even with 1.2 and 1.15. Might try old BIOS if I'm really bored to see but it has its own issues not something I'd want to stay on so would be kinda a waste of time. I guess I just have to hope for a new BIOS to work and revisit then. These are my results for now, I might try lowering subtimings as you said but is there anything I can do to get tCL to 14? DRAM Voltage is already 1.5 and with all other stable settings the same only changing tCL 16 to 14 it gives out an error within a minute.


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## thesmokingman (Nov 18, 2020)

Dreamic said:


> Shouldn't it not matter if I can't even post 1900 FCLK with RAM at default 2133mhz? It's Patriot 4400C19 B-Die. I imported XMP into DRAM Calc from Thaiphoon. It's 100% stable at 3600C14 TM5 1usmus overnight and 3733C16 settings I posted so far for a couple hours, about to run overnight. I'm certain it can run 3800 and it's not the RAM holding me back, I can test 3800 tomorrow but there's not much of a point cause I lose 1:1 if CPU/Mobo BIOS can't hit 1900. I might check old BIOS as Ampeg suggested but that has issues of its own above 3200



Dude, it depends on your settings. Hitting 1900 and 2000 isn't always easy. Btw, I've run that ram before at 3800mhz at cas 15 or 14 iirc and I didn't need voltage on soc. Hell imo, ppl create more problems than help by adding too much soc voltage.

When I am testing, I only set the primary timings and real slow at that, then I leave everything else on auto. The secondary and tertiary timings can sink your efforts just like the primary timings so keep that in mind. Don't touch GDM and PDM until you get something stable and even then GDM is often hard to disable.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 18, 2020)

CL is not that important, and you must set voltage higher to stabilize it, 1.5V is borderline high already. Try CL15 first, if thats unstable keep CL16. Try lowering tWR to 12 or 10 and tRRDL to 6 or 4, also tRFC might go to 250-280 range.


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## Anonymous1243 (Nov 18, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> Dude, it depends on your settings. Hitting 1900 and 2000 isn't always easy. Btw, I've run that ram before at 3800mhz at cas 15 or 14 iirc and I didn't need voltage on soc. Hell imo, ppl create more problems than help by adding too much soc voltage.
> 
> When I am testing, I only set the primary timings and real slow at that, then I leave everything else on auto. The secondary and tertiary timings can sink your efforts just like the primary timings so keep that in mind. Don't touch GDM and PDM until you get something stable and even then GDM is often hard to disable.


Ok I reset BIOS to defaults, entered only 3200mhz, 19 19 19 39 68, 1.5v DRAM, everything else on Auto/Default, only boots up to 1867 FCLK. I can basically do whatever I want and it will boot 1867 no problem. I'll try cas 14 again with subtimings Auto at some point, I already have with GDM and voltages Auto besides DRAM 1.5v



Taraquin said:


> CL is not that important, and you must set voltage higher to stabilize it, 1.5V is borderline high already. Try CL15 first, if thats unstable keep CL16. Try lowering tWR to 12 or 10 and tRRDL to 6 or 4, also tRFC might go to 250-280 range.


Yea I'm not going higher than 1.5v hopefully I can lower it a bit, when I try CL15 it just goes to CL14. I might just live with how the subtimings are until new BIOS comes out, maybe I can hit 1900 then and lower them.


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## Taraquin (Nov 19, 2020)

Dreamic said:


> Ok I reset BIOS to defaults, entered only 3200mhz, 19 19 19 39 68, 1.5v DRAM, everything else on Auto/Default, only boots up to 1867 FCLK. I can basically do whatever I want and it will boot 1867 no problem. I'll try cas 14 again with subtimings Auto at some point, I already have with GDM and voltages Auto besides DRAM 1.5v
> 
> 
> Yea I'm not going higher than 1.5v hopefully I can lower it a bit, when I try CL15 it just goes to CL14. I might just live with how the subtimings are until new BIOS comes out, maybe I can hit 1900 then and lower them.


Since you have dual rank that makes it harder to lower CL and run higher speed. As I said, please tune the values I suggested, they will improbe oerformance. You must lower tCWL to 15 or 14 to get CL to 15 or 14 since they are connected. 14 I think is impossible for you, it requires a lot more voltage to ram, I need 0.07V more to get 14 stable, but 15 might go. Can you try cl15, tcwl 15/14, twr 12/10, tRFC 280 or lower and report back?
I can run 3733cl16 at 1.38V, 3733cl15 at 1.42V, but need 1.49V for 3733cl14, and I need to increade tRCDRD and twtrs a bit with higher voltage which negatively affects performance. I have Micron rev E and single rank so not directly comparable to you.


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## Anonymous1243 (Nov 19, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> Since you have dual rank that makes it harder to lower CL and run higher speed. As I said, please tune the values I suggested, they will improbe oerformance. You must lower tCWL to 15 or 14 to get CL to 15 or 14 since they are connected. 14 I think is impossible for you, it requires a lot more voltage to ram, I need 0.07V more to get 14 stable, but 15 might go. Can you try cl15, tcwl 15/14, twr 12/10, tRFC 280 or lower and report back?
> I can run 3733cl16 at 1.38V, 3733cl15 at 1.42V, but need 1.49V for 3733cl14, and I need to increade tRCDRD and twtrs a bit with higher voltage which negatively affects performance. I have Micron rev E and single rank so not directly comparable to you.


I tried but to enable CL15 I have to disable GDM right which makes it not even close to stable, and I can't set tcwl 15, BIOS goes 16 or 14. So I guess I'm at CL16 which might run at 3800 or higher but doesn't really matter as long as FCLK is stuck 1867. I did lower the subtimings a bit and run overnight but didn't really make a difference to read or latency, still 55ns.



As far as this list goes it's not terrible but my read speed does seem kinda low and it would've been nice to get into the 53ns 54ns range https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...0MWVPcYjf6nOlr9CtkkfN78tSo/edit#gid=321590489
The only person at 3733 or less beating me has 1.7v... If I can ever get 1900 FCLK and 3800 that will bump me up a bit


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## SirMaster (Nov 20, 2020)

Hi guys

I am new to Ryzen and pretty new to DRAM overclocking.

I figured I would post what I have achieved so far and see if any of you more knowledgeable people have any suggestions as for what I should do for further performance tweaking.

So far this seems stable as I have run HCI memtest (many instances to 90% utilization) for over an hour.

I have my DRAM voltage set at 1.48 which seems to result in 1.5 as reported in Windows monitoring tools such as HWiNFO64.

Thanks!


----------



## Space Lynx (Nov 20, 2020)

nice latency! best I can do is 57.2ns, but I am on 32gb 2x16 kit 

@SirMaster if you are stable there, leave it and enjoy!  once new BIOS comes out, ram OC'ing should be better then.  should be a a few months away. not sure.  it will also enable 4000 1:1 more broadly.


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## SirMaster (Nov 20, 2020)

Thanks!

I tried 4000 1:1, and it boots and even can run AIDA64 and some short benchmarks, but it's not generally stable, though I did not tune voltages much so perhaps it's possible.

Though when I did have it running I had the timings looser like CL16, and the AIDA64 latency was like 62ns which is much worse.  Though the bandwidth was slightly higher, over 60,000MB/s.  Maybe the latency was higher for some other reason like not full stability.

I can revisit 4000 IF later when there are new BIOS.

Yeah I am certainly happy with my current numbers, though I paid a pretty penny for this DRAM (https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232968)

I am quite happy that I have 2 separate sets of it running together like this for the dual rank interleaving benefit.

Just wasn't sure if I should try to explore lowering any of the latencies any further.

I am a little wondering about the Termination Block settings.  The calculator recommends RZQ/7, OFF, RZQ/5, but I am currently running at  RZQ/7, RZQ/3, RZQ/3.  This is because at first I couldn't find these settings.  Later I did find them and tried the recommended ones but it seemed to be less stable, so I put them back to the default values.

What do these 3 settings mean and how does adjusting them normally affect stability?


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 20, 2020)

Dreamic said:


> I tried but to enable CL15 I have to disable GDM right which makes it not even close to stable, and I can't set tcwl 15, BIOS goes 16 or 14. So I guess I'm at CL16 which might run at 3800 or higher but doesn't really matter as long as FCLK is stuck 1867. I did lower the subtimings a bit and run overnight but didn't really make a difference to read or latency, still 55ns.
> View attachment 176256
> As far as this list goes it's not terrible but my read speed does seem kinda low and it would've been nice to get into the 53ns 54ns range https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...0MWVPcYjf6nOlr9CtkkfN78tSo/edit#gid=321590489
> The only person at 3733 or less beating me has 1.7v... If I can ever get 1900 FCLK and 3800 that will bump me up a bit


You can probably lower tRP (I use 11 at 3733) a bit more, tRRDL can sometimes be run at 4, tWR might do 10, tRC might do 45, 46 or 47. Try that. It seems like you are maxed out elsewhere.



SirMaster said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I am new to Ryzen and pretty new to DRAM overclocking.
> 
> ...


Mostly good  The most obvious is tWR. 10 or 12 should work, tRTP 10 or 8, tRP 11-14 (lowest stable), tRC 45-47, tRFC should get below 300. I have seen others with DR do 260 at 3800


----------



## SirMaster (Nov 20, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> Mostly good  The most obvious is tWR. 10 or 12 should work, tRTP 10 or 8, tRP 11-14 (lowest stable), tRC 45-47, tRFC should get below 300. I have seen others with DR do 260 at 3800



Thanks!

New results so far:


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 21, 2020)

SirMaster said:


> Thanks!
> 
> New results so far:
> 
> ...


Good. I think tRRDL can do 6 or 4, tWR 12 and perhaps a bit below 300 on tRFC, but you are probably close to the limit now


----------



## SirMaster (Nov 21, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> Good. I think tRRDL can do 6 or 4, tWR 12 and perhaps a bit below 300 on tRFC, but you are probably close to the limit now



Yeah I am not 100% pushing everything to the absolute max quite yet but I will proplay play with it more at some point.

Thanks again!


----------



## Anonymous1243 (Nov 21, 2020)

Needed a fan blowing on the RAM, 1.53v


----------



## DuxCro (Nov 22, 2020)

What is more important for ZEN performance, RAM frequency or latency? If i had to choose between lower clocked RAM with tighter latency or higher clocked with looser latency.


----------



## SirMaster (Nov 22, 2020)

DuxCro said:


> What is more important for ZEN performance, RAM frequency or latency? If i had to choose between lower clocked RAM with tighter latency or higher clocked with looser latency.



I’m pretty sure it depends on what you are doing, the specific workload.


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 22, 2020)

DuxCro said:


> What is more important for ZEN performance, RAM frequency or latency? If i had to choose between lower clocked RAM with tighter latency or higher clocked with looser latency.



Latency is best. Lower latency with high speed is even better, but if you cannot have both low latency is king.


----------



## Alyjen (Nov 23, 2020)

So if I wanted to go from here (it's stable at 1.35V) to CL 14 (as I don't see any option to disable GDM how high voltage I'd have to apply?
What other settings (ProcODT?, CAD_BUS?) I'd have to adjust? Don't mind VSOC & rest of voltages, I had to adjust them anyway s ASUS on auto is putting some random values there. 

I'm thinking about 24x7 stable, gaming/working rig, I'm not interested in benchmark pushing just for the sake of it. Or shall I wait for new BIOS and hope that FCLK 2000 will be stable? Currently I can boot with FLCK 2000 but it throws ton of WHEA warnings and performance is lower than 1900


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 23, 2020)

Alyjen said:


> So if I wanted to go from here (it's stable at 1.35V) to CL 14 (as I don't see any option to disable GDM how high voltage I'd have to apply?
> What other settings (ProcODT?, CAD_BUS?) I'd have to adjust? Don't mind VSOC & rest of voltages, I had to adjust them anyway s ASUS on auto is putting some random values there.
> 
> I'm thinking about 24x7 stable, gaming/working rig, I'm not interested in benchmark pushing just for the sake of it. Or shall I wait for new BIOS and hope that FCLK 2000 will be stable? Currently I can boot with FLCK 2000 but it throws ton of WHEA warnings and performance is lower than 1900
> ...


For CL14 I bet you must raise dram voltage to atleast 1.45V. You can probably lower tRP, tRC and tRFC a bit more at your current voltage, except for that your timings look very good. I guess 14-14-14-28-45 250-280 tRFC is doable at 1.45V.


----------



## Alyjen (Nov 23, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> For CL14 I bet you must raise dram voltage to atleast 1.45V. You can probably lower tRP, tRC and tRFC a bit more at your current voltage, except for that your timings look very good. I guess 14-14-14-28-45 250-280 tRFC is doable at 1.45V.


Thanks, I may give it a try, memory is rated to run at 1.45V with it's top XMP so I'd consider it safe. 
Playing with timings seems way easier than trying to disable geardown mode  last time I went for that to set CL15 (which is pretty easy for this memory kit) I ended up with fresh Win 10 install


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 23, 2020)

With GDM off I have to raise voltage by 0.03V, for each number I lower CL I must raise voltage by 0.05-0.07V. 3733cl16 with tweaked subs is stable at 1.35V, GDM req 1.38V, 3733cl15 req 1.43V and 3733cl14 req 1.49V. I have Micron rev E so not directly comparable.


----------



## Alyjen (Nov 23, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> With GDM off I have to raise voltage by 0.03V, for each number I lower CL I must raise voltage by 0.05-0.07V. 3733cl16 with tweaked subs is stable at 1.35V, GDM req 1.38V, 3733cl15 req 1.43V and 3733cl14 req 1.49V. I have Micron rev E so not directly comparable.


In my case unless i adjust CAD_BUS values I won't even boot with 3800CL15 & GDM:OFF, no matter how much voltage I try to run my memory with.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 23, 2020)

Alyjen said:


> In my case unless i adjust CAD_BUS values I won't even boot with 3800CL15 & GDM:OFF, no matter how much voltage I try to run my memory with.


No problem adjusting cadbus, just do it  I have to use the dram calc values for cadbus and procodt to get everything good and stable.


----------



## Anonymous1243 (Nov 23, 2020)

Closed fan control software for some extra latency




Unfortunate I like my case fans controlled by GPU temp and can't do that in BIOS


----------



## SirMaster (Nov 23, 2020)

Dreamic said:


> Closed fan control software for some extra latency
> View attachment 176776
> Unfortunate I like my case fans controlled by GPU temp and can't do that in BIOS



Do you know why your write throughout is so low?

Also, which test config is that in TestMem5?


----------



## Anonymous1243 (Nov 23, 2020)

SirMaster said:


> Do you know why your write throughout is so low?
> 
> Also, which test config is that in TestMem5?


It's just how single chiplet Ryzen is: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...0MWVPcYjf6nOlr9CtkkfN78tSo/edit#gid=321590489
And it's 1usmus_v3, guess I did block something important with that placement


----------



## Alyjen (Nov 24, 2020)

Dreamic said:


> Closed fan control software for some extra latency
> View attachment 176776
> Unfortunate I like my case fans controlled by GPU temp and can't do that in BIOS


Impressive timings! What voltage do you run to have it stable? Did you adjust ProcODT, or Rtt settings or is this default for your motherboard?


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 24, 2020)

Dreamic said:


> Closed fan control software for some extra latency
> View attachment 176776
> Unfortunate I like my case fans controlled by GPU temp and can't do that in BIOS


Very good result. Only 3 values you might lower more are tRP (11-13), tWR 10 and tRRDL 4. All these values work for my 3733-setup. Maybe it will give you a few hundred more on read and 0.5 on latency


----------



## Anonymous1243 (Nov 24, 2020)

Alyjen said:


> Impressive timings! What voltage do you run to have it stable? Did you adjust ProcODT, or Rtt settings or is this default for your motherboard?


1.530v in BIOS which it and HWinfo report as 1.516-1.520v. Any lower isn't stable. Can't remember what defaults were, set them as the calculator recommended.
Also needed a fan not to error


----------



## Alyjen (Nov 25, 2020)

@Dreamic well, that's hot! Too high voltage for my likening and 24x7 use but I may copy some of your settings  I really hope for more stable FCLK 2000MHz so i can set something rather easy like 4000MHz CL16 with tight subs


----------



## Anonymous1243 (Nov 25, 2020)

Alyjen said:


> @Dreamic well, that's hot! Too high voltage for my likening and 24x7 use but I may copy some of your settings  I really hope for more stable FCLK 2000MHz so i can set something rather easy like 4000MHz CL16 with tight subs


Lots of people have ran their BDie at 1.55v for years and even more at 1.50v which this is barely over, and they don't have temp sensors but if it's not erroring it's not too hot.
I hope I can get higher FCLK too, 1900 would've been nice bare minimum


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 25, 2020)

Alyjen said:


> @Dreamic well, that's hot! Too high voltage for my likening and 24x7 use but I may copy some of your settings  I really hope for more stable FCLK 2000MHz so i can set something rather easy like 4000MHz CL16 with tight subs



Viper Steel 4400 is the top bin for that line. You shouldn't need even 1.5V for flat 16 @ 4000. Only problem is waiting for the AGESA 1180 firmware improvements to see if your CPU can do 2000MHz IF.

I'd be careful past 1.5V; heat is never an issue with the DIMMs themselves, but it should be no secret how much a high end GPU can heat up the RAM (especially a 3080). And even with good airflow, there's no way around that while playing any decently demanding game, unless your graphics card is just for show. And the Vipers don't have temp sensors.


----------



## Alyjen (Nov 25, 2020)

My thoughts exactly, I'm waiting to see  if FCLK 2000MHz  is an option.

With vipers it can happen that this thermal compound they use to glue this joke of a heatsink is not covering whole die, then you're out of luck as they will overheat even at 1.5V. 

If not I'll work on having tighter 1900MHz. I may get some extra cooling dedicated to RAM, I really prefer long term stability over nice benchmark figures, and by long term I mean years, my old platform with 6600K overclocked and undervolted was running for years without a single issue  and it's still going to serve some yeras in my kids rig


----------



## Anonymous1243 (Nov 25, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> You shouldn't need even 1.5V for flat 16 @ 4000.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 176986


Maybe I lost the lottery as usual cause 1.52v in BIOS with my settings is unstable fan full blast, and 1.53v overheats and errors without a fan.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 25, 2020)

Dreamic said:


> Maybe I lost the lottery as usual cause 1.52v in BIOS with my settings is unstable fan full blast, and 1.53v overheats and errors without a fan.



I don't think you necessarily lost, but 4 sticks jammed up next to each other is also just harder to cool. That's the whole reason why I have no GPU in that rig, and I still only have 2 sticks.

Setting 1.53V in BIOS also doesn't mean you're getting 1.53V, not sure if VDRAM is a visible SuperIO sensor on MSI motherboards. My board overvolts RAM by 0.06V over what is set in BIOS, so I go off the sensor reading instead. 

And if you're talking about 3733/14, CL14 is just damn hard to run. I can't even post 3800/14. That would probably need 1.6V just to boot, while 4000/16 is 1.47V stable.


----------



## Anonymous1243 (Nov 25, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> I don't think you necessarily lost, but 4 sticks jammed up next to each other is also just harder to cool. That's the whole reason why I have no GPU in that rig, and I still only have 2 sticks.
> 
> Setting 1.53V in BIOS also doesn't mean you're getting 1.53V, not sure if VDRAM is a visible SuperIO sensor on MSI motherboards. My board overvolts RAM by 0.06V over what is set in BIOS, so I go off the sensor reading instead.
> 
> And if you're talking about 3733/14, CL14 is just damn hard to run. I can't even post 3800/14. That would probably need 1.6V just to boot, while 4000/16 is 1.47V stable.


1.53v is reported as 1.516v-1.520v by BIOS and HWinfo, so if that's accurate my board is undervolting. And yea 3733/14, figured if I can't hit 1900 FCLK yet 3733/16 is kinda weak too
I didn't dish out on BDie to run a measely 3733/16


----------



## brandon7171 (Dec 2, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> nice latency! best I can do is 57.2ns, but I am on 32gb 2x16 kit
> 
> @SirMaster if you are stable there, leave it and enjoy!  once new BIOS comes out, ram OC'ing should be better then.  should be a a few months away. not sure.  it will also enable 4000 1:1 more broadly.



Wow, thats amazing i am on a 2x8 kit and when i enable Xmp it tries to run at 4400mhz, but i have 4x8 running. I am new and i am trying to save me self money bc i am wanting a actually 4x8 kit bc my QVL just updated and this memory does not support 4X8. Thanks for letting me know i have hope with this ram if i can get it right but im a noob..



Dreamic said:


> Shouldn't it not matter if I can't even post 1900 FCLK with RAM at default 2133mhz? It's Patriot 4400C19 B-Die. I imported XMP into DRAM Calc from Thaiphoon. It's 100% stable at 3600C14 TM5 1usmus overnight and 3733C16 settings I posted so far for a couple hours, about to run overnight. I'm certain it can run 3800 and it's not the RAM holding me back, I can test 3800 tomorrow but there's not much of a point cause I lose 1:1 if CPU/Mobo BIOS can't hit 1900. I might check old BIOS as Ampeg suggested but that has issues of its own above 3200



I am having a issue with thermaltake ram 4400Mhz. When i lower it to 4000mhz my cpu will boot.



Dreamic said:


> Shouldn't it not matter if I can't even post 1900 FCLK with RAM at default 2133mhz? It's Patriot 4400C19 B-Die. I imported XMP into DRAM Calc from Thaiphoon. It's 100% stable at 3600C14 TM5 1usmus overnight and 3733C16 settings I posted so far for a couple hours, about to run overnight. I'm certain it can run 3800 and it's not the RAM holding me back, I can test 3800 tomorrow but there's not much of a point cause I lose 1:1 if CPU/Mobo BIOS can't hit 1900. I might check old BIOS as Ampeg suggested but that has issues of its own above 3200



i am having pretty much same issue with my ram. My timings r like28. 27.27. 83 my timings r so off. What is the best way to get them at least better than they r?


----------



## Anonymous1243 (Dec 2, 2020)

brandon7171 said:


> i am having pretty much same issue with my ram. My timings r like28. 27.27. 83 my timings r so off. What is the best way to get them at least better than they r?


Use DRAM Calculator? Does its recommended timings not work at bootable speed?


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## harm9963 (Dec 2, 2020)

DRAM Calculator  needs to be updated, plus used Linpack Xtream 64 and finds errors fast ,    cant run full XMP , one error is to many ,  but 3600CL 14 fast preset  , runs my games just fine, and less heat , 138V vs 1.50V .


----------



## brandon7171 (Dec 2, 2020)

harm9963 said:


> DRAM Calculator  needs to be updated, plus used Linpack Xtream 64 and finds errors fast ,    cant run full XMP , one error is to many ,  but 3600CL 14 fast preset  , runs my games just fine, and less heat , 138V vs 1.50V .
> View attachment 177846



Is this a Free Program? Im not having any errors in my ram, i have ran memtest86 for hours no errors its just my timings are off and my computer runs slow on boot
Here is my System Build


MotherBoard-     - Asus Rog CrossHair VIII Formula X570 With Pcie 4.0

Processor-            - AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 8 Core

Full Tower Case-  - Rosewill Gaming ATX Full Tower Computer Case Cases Thor V2 Black

SSD-                      - WD_Black SN750 1TB NVMe Internal Gaming SSD - Gen3 PCIe, M.2 2280, 3D NAND

Processor FAN-   - Noctua NH-D15, Premium CPU Cooler with 2x NF-A15 PWM 140mm Fans

Power Supply-    - EVGA SuperNOVA 850 T2, 80+ TITANIUM 850W, Fully Modular, EVGA ECO Mode, 10 Year Warranty

Ram-                    - 32GB Of Ram Installed- Thermaltake TOUGHRAM RGB DDR4 4400MHz 16GB (32GB) 16.8 Million Color RGB

GPU-                       - EVGA Geforce GTX 1070 Ti 8GB FTW2


----------



## harm9963 (Dec 2, 2020)

Linpack Xtreme (1.1.5) Download
					

Linpack is a benchmark and the most aggressive stress testing software available today. Best used to test stability of overclocked PCs. Linpack tends




					www.techpowerup.com
				





brandon7171 said:


> Is this a Free Program? Im not having any errors in my ram, i have ran memtest86 for hours no errors its just my timings are off and my computer runs slow on boot
> Here is my System Build
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Nims (Dec 6, 2020)

Here is my MemBench score. Also using a MSI Tomahwk x570.


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## brandon7171 (Dec 7, 2020)

Nims said:


> Here is my MemBench score. Also using a MSI Tomahwk x570.



Im honestly not sure if this is good are bad, i have 4 stick of this so its a 4X8 kit
*Thermaltake TOUGHRAM RGB DDR4 4400MHz 16GB. But i have 32GB total
Is This a good bench, i know my boot time is slow for sure.. When i go play with the 3200mhz it speeds my boot time up.. I honestly think this ram has a problem bc this kit is really a 2X8 Kit.. Im not to good with this im a noob.. My Processor is Ryzen 7 3700X 8 Core. Motherboard is Crosshair 8 Formula VIII X570*


----------



## Taraquin (Dec 7, 2020)

brandon7171 said:


> Im honestly not sure if this is good are bad, i have 4 stick of this so its a 4X8 kit
> *Thermaltake TOUGHRAM RGB DDR4 4400MHz 16GB. But i have 32GB total
> Is This a good bench, i know my boot time is slow for sure.. When i go play with the 3200mhz it speeds my boot time up.. I honestly think this ram has a problem bc this kit is really a 2X8 Kit.. Im not to good with this im a noob.. My Processor is Ryzen 7 3700X 8 Core. Motherboard is Crosshair 8 Formula VIII X570*


Did you use the dram calc at all? Those are very loose timings all over. You should be able to run atleadt 3400 with 4 sticks, probably even more.


----------



## Caring1 (Dec 7, 2020)

brandon7171 said:


> * im a noob.. *


Because you are a noob, I'll let you in on a secret, large type and bolding won't get you an answer any faster.
Calm ya farm.


----------



## brandon7171 (Dec 7, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> Because you are a noob, I'll let you in on a secret, large type and bolding won't get you an answer any faster.
> Calm ya farm.



Honestly on the bold text I copied and pasted it off from Amazon and it started the bold text and I did not know how to change it back.



Taraquin said:


> Did you use the dram calc at all? Those are very loose timings all over. You should be able to run atleadt 3400 with 4 sticks, probably even more.



No did not use it sneekypeet helped me on tighten my timings up he was awesome help. I just wanted to tighten timing I did not want to enter the rest of the stuff. I was hearing dram calculator was not to accurate.


----------



## dgianstefani (Dec 15, 2020)

Pretty much finished tweaking for now. Weird thing is it passed tests at 4000 same timings but very occasionally crashed to restart in certain games.

Anyhow, I'm happy with this latency and maybe future bioses will allow 4000/2000.


----------



## brandon7171 (Dec 15, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> Pretty much finished tweaking for now. Weird thing is it passed tests at 4000 same timings but very occasionally crashed to restart in certain games.
> 
> Anyhow, I'm happy with this latency and maybe future bioses will allow 4000/2000.
> 
> View attachment 179613


That is very nice. I would be happy to. I am going to have to break down and get B-Die ram. That b-die seems to be way better. I have this thermaltake I will never purchase thermaltake every in my life again. I found some Corsair B-die. But I think I going to go with the g.skills b-die kit.


----------



## tancabean (Dec 16, 2020)

I’m putting together a new build with a 5950x on an MSI B550 Mortar and unable to boot XMP profiles. Both XMP profiles are at 3600Mhz. Seems I’m suffering from the same MSI XMP issue that folks have been reporting with Zen 3 chips. 

RAM is 2x16GB Gskill V Series 3600 CAS16. 

Is DRAM calculator the best way to determine the proper timings I should set in the BIOS to get things running? I’m willing to settle for 3200Mhz if it helps.


----------



## Anonymous1243 (Dec 16, 2020)

tancabean said:


> Seems I’m suffering from the same MSI XMP issue that folks have been reporting with Zen 3 chips.


I wish they would hurry up and release a new BIOS with 1.1.8.0 for my B550 Tomahawk, kinda regretting getting MSI with how AFK their BIOS team has been...
I want to be able to post at above 1867 FCLK, even just 1900 FCLK would be a nicer number even if it doesn't make much of a difference. I was expecting 1900 FCLK minimum, 2000 FCLK or higher if I'm lucky.
MSI making my RAM go to waste a bit, at least the timings are tight


----------



## equlizer (Dec 17, 2020)

Hello   I'm totally new to the B-die scene.  I recently picked up some Gskill Flare X F4-3200C14D-32GFX memory.  Im running a 5800x on a B550 motherboard with latest bios.  Does anyone have the best general timings for these chips?  I'm currently running them at 3400mhz with the same timings as 3200mhz but had to up the voltage to 1.4v.  I'm starting down the rabbit hole here.  Any help is appreciated.


----------



## dgianstefani (Dec 17, 2020)

B die can run up to 1.6v stable daily if it has airflow and is kept under 45c. Go for 3800


----------



## Zach_01 (Dec 17, 2020)

dgianstefani said:


> B die can run up to 1.6v stable daily if it has airflow and is kept under 45c. Go for 3800


B-dies can take even 2.0V with the proper amount of airflow to keep it under 45C. Currently I run 2 sticks, not so high quality, at 3800 with 1.46~1.47V 16-18-18-18-36/1T


----------



## brandon7171 (Dec 17, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> B-dies can take even 2.0V with the proper amount of airflow to keep it under 45C. Currently I run 2 sticks, not so high quality, at 3800 with 1.46~1.47V 16-18-18-18-36/1T



Hi would u happen to know the best timings for this thermaltake R009D408GX2-4400C19A  Its Hynix Die.. My current timings are 16 20 20 40 63. I am also running a 4x8 kit and not 2x8 its running at 36MHZ, Motherboard is Crosshair Formula VIII X570, CPU is Ryzen 7 3700X 8 Core. I am very new to theses timings, A big thanks to @sneekypeet for helping me with the current timings i have..


----------



## equlizer (Dec 18, 2020)

Well i tried upping my speeds from 3400mhz to 3433mhz with exact same timings and my benchmarks and cpu-z score goes down.  Why would it do that if its passing all tests?


----------



## Alyjen (Dec 18, 2020)

equlizer said:


> Well i tried upping my speeds from 3400mhz to 3433mhz with exact same timings and my benchmarks and cpu-z score goes down.  Why would it do that if its passing all tests?


Check your IF (FCLK) settings. If it's on auto here's a chance that when you change memory clock your IF stays lower and it needs to be set 1:1 (and keep in mind that memory is DDR) so
Memory 3200 IF 1600
Memory 3400 IF 1700
Memory 3600 IF 1800

and so on. It's visible in Zen-Timings, Ryzen Master or in BIOS






Dreamic said:


> I wish they would hurry up and release a new BIOS with 1.1.8.0 for my B550 Tomahawk, kinda regretting getting MSI with how AFK their BIOS team has been...
> I want to be able to post at above 1867 FCLK, even just 1900 FCLK would be a nicer number even if it doesn't make much of a difference. I was expecting 1900 FCLK minimum, 2000 FCLK or higher if I'm lucky.
> MSI making my RAM go to waste a bit, at least the timings are tight



Don't get your hopes too high  On my Asus I could boot at 2000 FCLK on day 1, but it's not good as it's super unstable. With most recent BIOS based on AGESA 1.1.8.0. 1900 seems stable but still once every few days I get 1-2 whea warnings recorded. 1866/3733 not a single warning. 2000 still seems out of reach.


----------



## Anonymous1243 (Dec 18, 2020)

I have a new problem since getting a new GPU that heats up my case and room significantly more, this is no longer stable and will throw out a couple errors pretty fast if I run TM5 right after gaming long enough to heat things up:



Below is what I'm running now:



I was running vDIMM 1.53v in BIOS (reported as 1.516-1.520v, any lower isn't stable) and just threw it down to 1.45v in BIOS, and it doesn't seem to overheat anymore. 52.7ns to 54.2ns though.
I wish I could at least get FCLK up to 1900 for 3800 for C16 assuming I wouldn't have to raise voltage much again.
So what should try? Or do I just leave it like this since 3733C14 is too hot


----------



## Alyjen (Dec 18, 2020)

3800CL16 works even with 1.4V , but I only have 2x8 set so it's probably easier, you should be able to do 3733 ĆL15 with ~1,43V but for that GDM OFF and that maybe be hard  

You have to think if this extra few ns, which you'll never spot in games is worth all these issues, potential OS corruption etc. Sure 1900 looks better, but it's still not 2000 so I think I'll pass and wait for even better BIOSes


----------



## Anonymous1243 (Dec 18, 2020)

Alyjen said:


> 3800CL16 works even with 1.4V , but I only have 2x8 set so it's probably easier, you should be able to do 3733 ĆL15 with ~1,43V but for that GDM OFF and that maybe be hard
> 
> You have to think if this extra few ns, which you'll never spot in games is worth all these issues, potential OS corruption etc. Sure 1900 looks better, but it's still not 2000 so I think I'll pass and wait for even better BIOSes


Yea the 1867 FCLK BIOS limit is really screwing me here, cause C16 wouldn't be so bad if I could raise the frequency more. I don't want to lower from 3733 to like 3600 or something so I can lower voltage and keep C14, and you're right trying to get C15 GDM off seems like it's going to be a headache. Ugh
It just feels stupid to have spent so much on this RAM to end up 3733C16, especially if I could hit 3867C16 or 3933C16 with stable temps 1.45v maybe idk about 4000
MSI get your shit together please


----------



## tancabean (Dec 18, 2020)

I was able to get my 3600 GSkill kit running at 3200 16-18-18-36 1.35v in a B550m Mortar. Got crashes at tighter timings. Not a great result but good enough until MSI fixes their shit.


----------



## Anonymous1243 (Dec 18, 2020)

tancabean said:


> I was able to get my 3600 GSkill kit running at 3200 16-18-18-36 1.35v in a B550m Mortar. Got crashes at tighter timings. Not a great result but good enough until MSI fixes their shit.


Their BIOS is really doing that? I haven't heard much about that, just this FCLK limit plague that some brands seem to be fixing faster. Haven't had a BIOS release since Nov 16th for my board still 1.1.0.0 C


----------



## Alyjen (Dec 18, 2020)

@Dreamic Ok so this is not mine but a user from Polish forum, he's quite good with memory (and that's understatement, he was able to help me pretty fast)
Ignore 3800 you can drop to 3733, but for him this worked to get GDM OFF at ~1.43V and that's also MSI board
CAD_BUS part is rather important. But again it's 2x8 and you are dealing with 4x8 so I'd say this 3733C16 is still better than most of users are getting


----------



## brandon7171 (Dec 18, 2020)

Alyjen said:


> @Dreamic Ok so this is not mine but a user from Polish forum, he's quite good with memory (and that's understatement, he was able to help me pretty fast)
> Ignore 3800 you can drop to 3733, but for him this worked to get GDM OFF at ~1.43V and that's also MSI board
> CAD_BUS part is rather important. But again it's 2x8 and you are dealing with 4x8 so I'd say this 3733C16 is still better than most of users are getting
> 
> View attachment 180111



Im looking for some help if possible with my 4x8 kit of thermaltake ram. Could u direct me to a forum maybe that could help me with my kit?


----------



## equlizer (Dec 18, 2020)

Sorry, forgot to post a screenshot of it running at 3400mhz DOCP timings.  I would like to get higher speeds and or tighter timings.  Any help is appreciated


----------



## Alyjen (Dec 18, 2020)

brandon7171 said:


> Im looking for some help if possible with my 4x8 kit of thermaltake ram. Could u direct me to a forum maybe that could help me with my kit?


I've send you PM, I'm not that good and just copy what others are using. Still it took me a week or so of reading and testing to get a basic understanding why some settings works for me while others doesn't etc.
Good start is to know what memory you've got and then look for others who have the same and already spend more time trying to set them right, and learn from them. I have Samsung B-Dies, very high bin (XMP profile of 4400CL19, they can run basically anything between 3200CL12 to 4000CL16) so it's rather easy, still I made ton of mistakes some of them resulting in OS wipe 

DRAM calculator for Zen 3 when used correctly helps a lot, but it's not a magic bullet


----------



## equlizer (Dec 19, 2020)

I was able to get this with a little help from another site.  Can i get better timings or higher clocks?  thx


----------



## dgianstefani (Dec 22, 2020)

Spent another 2 hrs tweaking lmao, shaved off another 2ns latency.







dgianstefani said:


> Pretty much finished tweaking for now. Weird thing is it passed tests at 4000 same timings but very occasionally crashed to restart in certain games.
> 
> Anyhow, I'm happy with this latency and maybe future bioses will allow 4000/2000.
> 
> View attachment 179613


----------



## equlizer (Dec 24, 2020)

Are you running any games or benchmarks after tweaking?  Any or much improvements?   I've been tweaking too and can get pretty low on timings but there is a point of diminishing returns.  Also which timings give you the best results in games/benchmarks?  What made you decide on 40ohm for the procODT?


----------



## JGalland (Dec 24, 2020)

Hi guys !
I'm running a Asrock X570 Taichi - Ryzen 9 5900X -  2x16 GB Trident Z RGB 3600Mhz C16

It's my first time trying to OC my memory with the DRAM calculator and I've already noticed weird behaviour. Especially in the voltage department :





Weird thing is : with standard XMP on for that kit, I have (based on Ryzen Master) :
 SOC Voltage => 1.2 Volts
VDDG CCD Voltage => 1.15 Volts
VDDP => 1.1 Volts 
VDDG IOD => 1.1 Volts

Values well beyond the max "safe" preset for the DRAM Calc.

I did try those DRAM calc settings anyway : and the PC just won't boot. I suspect the voltages recommanded by the calc are too low. Maybe I'm mistaken ?
Appreciate any help !


----------



## brandon7171 (Dec 24, 2020)

JGalland said:


> Hi guys !
> I'm running a Asrock X570 Taichi - Ryzen 9 5900X -  2x16 GB Trident Z RGB 3600Mhz C16
> 
> It's my first time trying to OC my memory with the DRAM calculator and I've already noticed weird behaviour. Especially in the voltage department :
> ...



Same problem i am having, when i enter the Dram settings my system will not boot.. I think, we need a update on the Dram Calculator..


----------



## equlizer (Dec 24, 2020)

The calculator is just somewhat of a guide on timings you could use.  You have to experiment yourself with the settings.  Try the safe settings and go from there.  Change one setting at a time, reboot and test and so on.  IMO, most settings don't really do anything except stress the memory and the SOC.  You can try my settings if you like and go from there.  Always try and check AIDA64 for your memory latencies each time and the read speed benchmark.  Getting the lowest timings doesn't mean anything if its not actually gaining you anything.  Your SOC should be no more than 1.125 for daily.

Trfc=288, Trc=80 (can try lower), Trrds and Trrdsl=4, Tfaw=16  (Tfaw=4xTrrd), Keep twTr_s and -L at auto and Trtp at auto as well.


----------



## brandon7171 (Dec 24, 2020)

equlizer said:


> The calculator is just somewhat of a guide on timings you could use.  You have to experiment yourself with the settings.  Try the safe settings and go from there.  Change one setting at a time, reboot and test and so on.  IMO, most settings don't really do anything except stress the memory and the SOC.  You can try my settings if you like and go from there.  Always try and check AIDA64 for your memory latencies each time and the read speed benchmark.  Getting the lowest timings doesn't mean anything if its not actually gaining you anything.  Your SOC should be no more than 1.125 for daily.
> 
> Trfc=288, Trc=80 (can try lower), Trrds and Trrdsl=4, Tfaw=16  (Tfaw=4xTrrd), Keep twTr_s and -L at auto and Trtp at auto as well.



So could i try theses same settings on my 4x8 thermaltake ram kit, its Sk Hynix Die? Ryzen 3700X, board is crosshair VIII formula X570 just wondering.


----------



## Zach_01 (Dec 26, 2020)

JGalland said:


> Hi guys !
> I'm running a Asrock X570 Taichi - Ryzen 9 5900X -  2x16 GB Trident Z RGB 3600Mhz C16
> 
> It's my first time trying to OC my memory with the DRAM calculator and I've already noticed weird behaviour. Especially in the voltage department :
> ...


DRAMcalc is not really updated for ZEN3.
And for those voltages try ZenTimings v1.2.1


----------



## equlizer (Dec 27, 2020)

So i worked on this for quite a few hours.  Trying each setting and rebooting and benchmarking and over and over again.  Can i get this higher or am i at my limit?  Would it be crazy to try for Cas12?


----------



## brandon7171 (Dec 28, 2020)

equlizer said:


> So i worked on this for quite a few hours.  Trying each setting and rebooting and benchmarking and over and over again.  Can i get this higher or am i at my limit?  Would it be crazy to try for Cas12?


Wow 14 14 14 is really awesome??? This is Gskill ram with CL16????


----------



## equlizer (Dec 28, 2020)

Gskill CL14.  IT says at the bottom of the Zentimings SC   I'm tempted to try CL12 but don't want a corrupt OS


----------



## Zach_01 (Dec 28, 2020)

What’s the DRAM voltage for that?
Those are Samsung b-dies right? You can set tRFC below 300.


----------



## equlizer (Dec 28, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> What’s the DRAM voltage for that?
> Those are Samsung b-dies right? You can set tRFC below 300.



Yes these are B-dies.  Dram voltage is 1.5v  Going below 300 yields me lower scores and higher ns.  The formula for tRFC=8x tRC+8.  If i want to lower I would have to change my tras and trp values because they =Trc.  Tras=Tcl+Trcd +2.  If you don't follow these formulas, you lead to instability and higher strain on the memory and motherboard for zero or a lot of times negative gain.  I've been looking at other peoples numbers and I wonder how they came up with them.


----------



## Zach_01 (Dec 29, 2020)

Interesting...
Any suggestions?







Thats 1.45V DRAM
I did try with tRFC 408 (tRC x8) +8 but it was worst about 1ns and -0.5GB (AIDA)
If you see DRAMcalc it suggests "tRFC = (tRC x5) +8" and an alternative of "tRFC = tRC x8"

Also suggests, tRC = [(tCL + tRCDRD) +2] + (tRAS +2). Or am I getting it wrong? I didnt add 2 in both.
Meanwhile the stock 3466 primary timings are 16-18-18-18-36-54 = +2 only for tRAS.


----------



## equlizer (Dec 29, 2020)

Try Trrds=4 and Trrdl=4 and Twrts=4.  Everything that you did not manually adjust, leave at auto.  Try not to use DramCalc as its not very accurate and wants you to change timings you dont need to.  This info is what i have gathered from memory overclocking articles.

Twtrl                            =12 or 10 (mine was only stable at 14)
Twtrs                          =4
TWCL                           =TCL (can try -1 if unstable)
Trtp                             =14 (can try 12 or 10)
TrdrdScl/TwrwrScl    =4 or 3 (mine is stable at 5)
TRC                              =Tras+Trp
Trrds                           =4
tFaw                           =4x Trrds
TWR                            =Tras minus trcd
TRFC                            =8x trc +8 (some say you can go lower but ymmv)
ProCDDT                     =Between 28 and 43.3ohm (for amd)
TRRDS/L                      =4
Tras                              =TCL+tRCDRD (+2 if unstable)


----------



## OmSecond (Jan 1, 2021)

i just get this score thats good?


----------



## JGalland (Jan 1, 2021)

Is it harder OCing 2x 16 GB RAM ? Because I just can't get my computer to boot when using values from the DRAM Calculator....
My model is F4-3600C16D-32GTZR, supposed to be of great quality (B-Die)


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 1, 2021)

JGalland said:


> Is it harder OCing 2x 16 GB RAM ? Because I just can't get my computer to boot when using values from the DRAM Calculator....
> My model is F4-3600C16D-32GTZR, supposed to be of great quality (B-Die)


Walk us through it... what exactly is DRAMcalc suggesting. A screenshot would be nice, and a lot of times further tweaking is required.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Walk us through it... what exactly is DRAMcalc suggesting. A screenshot would be nice, and a lot of times further tweaking is required.


A shot from Taiphon Burner is also a good start point I find as well.


----------



## JGalland (Jan 1, 2021)

Here's my Taiphon Burner info :



Spoiler: Thaiphoon Burner













Spoiler: DRAM Calc












And here's a screenshot from my Ryzen Master :



Spoiler: RyzenMaster












Isn't it weird that my SOC Voltage is so high compared to the recommanded voltages from the Dram Calc ?
My specs are :

- Ryzen 9 5900X
- Asrock X570 Taichi


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

Well you have B-Dies you have lots of room to play with. Yes the SoC is a bit high for no good reason. I will leave Zach to evaluate your timings the Primary timings look doable fro B-Die but I think your RAM voltage is default 1.2 so will need to adjust that for sure


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 1, 2021)

I really doubt that those timings can be achieved with only 1.35V DRAM voltage that DC suggests. Probably 1.4V or more.

Ryzen Master only reads what board is set to, and not what the board is actually supply. In order to see the actual voltages you need ZenTimings v1.2.1
Very often there is a difference for VSOC

This is with 1.45V DRAM voltage but my sticks are not so high quality, even tho they do have Samsung B-dies.


----------



## INSTG8R (Jan 1, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> I really doubt that those timings can be achieved with only 1.35V DRAM voltage that DC suggests. Probably 1.4V or more.
> 
> Ryzen Master only reads what board is set to, and not what the board is actually supply. In order to see the actual voltages you need ZenTimings v1.2.1
> Very often there is a difference for VSOC
> ...


Yeah that is definitely something in Ryzen Master I always question is what are just Static settings vs actual ones, but I don't use the program all that much but I can see my own BIOS settings present in certain fields


----------



## JGalland (Jan 1, 2021)

Thanks for the insight guys.
Here's a screenshot of my ZenTimings which show that VSOC is indeed at 1.2V





So should I try the DRAM CALC timings while leaving the IMC settings on auto ? And setting the ram itself at like 1.43V ?


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 2, 2021)

Unnecessary high voltages for “just” 3600MHz DRAM. You should lower those voltages to
VSOC: 1.1V
cLDO VDDP: 1.0V
cLDO VDDG CCD/IOD: 1.0V

And probably VDDP/VDDG can be below 1.0V (950~975mV)

You can go straight to 1.45V for RAM as long as you keep dimm temp under 45C under heavy stress.
Remember that RyzenDRAM Calculator has not been updated for Zen3 yet, and probably board BIOSs need some more work. And Asrock is not the best in implementing BIOS/UEFI very quickly, and in the most optimized way.
I think you need to be conservative at this point. First try to be stable at where you are.

16-16-16-16-34-50
tFAW: 28
tRFC: 258 (alt: 408)


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 2, 2021)

Always leave a little in reserve .


----------



## brandon7171 (Jan 2, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Unnecessary high voltages for “just” 3600MHz DRAM. You should lower those voltages to
> VSOC: 1.1V
> cLDO VDDP: 1.0V
> cLDO VDDG CCD/IOD: 1.0V
> ...


When I get home I will try this. I have Asus rog crosshair VIII formula. With the power draining out could this still be a motherboard issue r a ram issue maybe I can call Asus and find out. I hope it’s a ram issue bc it’s a easy fix just buy more ram.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 2, 2021)

Ok, ASUS...
But there is nothing wrong with the board. Just some boards are supplying voltage a little to the high side. Depending maybe on BIOS, RAM and CPU combo. No one can really tell. Nothing to worry about things that can be regulated.


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 8, 2021)

Hi guys,

I'm new here, I just read the whole thread and I see some really good people with memory settings, and I was wondering if i could get some help with my system.

I'm currently running a Ryzen 5950X with X570 Aorus Master, using PBO Advanced. I'm able to achieve some nice CPU performance, single boost clocks upto 5.1Ghz and all core clocks about 4.45 - 4.5Ghz. However I'm not an expert with memory settings and I think my system could do better. The memory sticks I have are 4x8GB 4000Mhz CL18 Teamgroup T-Force Xcalibur Special Edition and according to Thaipoon Burner they are Samsung B-die A2 bin. This is what I have achieved so far using Ryzen DRAM Calculator running the FAST profile but with gear down mode enabled.








I have not been able to be stable with 1T command rate and gear down mode disabled, if I enabled gear down or put command rate to 2T it works. What you guys think?
Note: I tried running FCLK at 2000Mhz with 4000Mhz memory but my system doesn't post, I guess is because of the strain for the memory controller with 4 sticks.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 8, 2021)

juanyunis said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm new here, I just read the whole thread and I see some really good people with memory settings, and I was wondering if i could get some help with my system.
> 
> ...


The "problem" beyond 1900MHz is mostly FCLK not be able to hold that speed. Maybe that could be changed in future for 5000series CPUs with better BIOS/UEFI.

Did you try with more than 1.42V for DRAM when disabling GDM? Like 1.45V or more? Have a fan over sticks though. 4 full dimms with little to no space in between them can increase temp really quickly.
Samsung B-dies can sustain and scale good with high voltage, but can produce errors rather quickly when overheated. With proper cooling even 1.5~1.6V is ok for daily usage.

You can try
1.45~1.48V for DRAM (with additional cooling than case airflow)
16-18-18-18-36-54
tRFC 278 (tRC x5 +8)
tRRDS 5
tRRDL 8
tFAW 20 (tRRDS x4)
GDM Disabled

Also...
1. PowerDownMode: Disabled
2. SoC/Uncore OC mode: Enabled
3. DF C-states: Disabled

These 3 settings are power savings for "DRAM", "SoC (IOD)" and "InfinityFabric" respectively. When you OC memory subsystems its better to have all power savings disabled.


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 8, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> The "problem" beyond 1900MHz is mostly FCLK not be able to hold that speed. Maybe that could be changed in future for 5000series CPUs with better BIOS/UEFI.
> 
> Did you try with more than 1.42V for DRAM when disabling GDM? Like 1.45V or more? Have a fan over sticks though. 4 full dimms with little to no space in between them can increase temp really quickly.
> Samsung B-dies can sustain and scale good with high voltage, but can produce errors rather quickly when overheated. With proper cooling even 1.5~1.6V is ok for daily usage.
> ...


Thanks for the reply. I did everything you mentioned but no luck with gear down mode disabled, but it did improve my latency to 57.3. I guess I would have to wait for better BIOS, maybe AGESA 1.1.8.0. Do you think that CL14 is possible at 3800mhz with my kits?


----------



## Space Lynx (Jan 8, 2021)

juanyunis said:


> Thanks for the reply. I did everything you mentioned but no luck with gear down mode disabled, but it did improve my latency to 57.3. I guess I would have to wait for better BIOS, maybe AGESA 1.1.8.0. Do you think that CL14 is possible at 3800mhz with my kits?



new bios is making things worse for ram actually, at least for me and one other person... so lol









						ATTN MSI x570 Tomahawk owners, the new BIOS 1/04/2021 just released
					

I have not done much yet, but I did a quick OC on ram, ran cinebench and stable so far.  Lot's of testing to go :D  DL link:   https://download.msi.com/bos_exe/mb/7C84v153.zip   Main link:  https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/MAG-X570-TOMAHAWK-WIFI   edit:  so far stable, 30 more mins of...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## jesdals (Jan 8, 2021)

Heres my settings at 1.52volt on the 4x8 Patriot Extreme Viper


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 8, 2021)

jesdals said:


> Heres my settings at 1.52volt on the 4x8 Patriot Extreme Viper
> View attachment 183044


Damm, I'm gonna try that right now, very impressive timings. I see that you are using gear down mode, I guess with 4 sticks is very hard to achieve. Is this a daily driver? Do you use any cooling fan?


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 8, 2021)




----------



## juanyunis (Jan 8, 2021)

@dgianstefani very impressive too, I think if I remove 2 of my sticks I would be able to achieve something like yours, but I need the extra RAM. I wasn't able to find any good 2x16GB kit.



jesdals said:


> Heres my settings at 1.52volt on the 4x8 Patriot Extreme Viper
> View attachment 183044


This actually boots for me, however i had a BSOD at first, but then i went to BIOS and disabled spread spectrum, enabled SOC Uncore OC and disable C states. I have some questions for you.
1. Do you have those settings like that? 
2. Since you have almost the same setup, 5950X and X570 Aorus Master, what voltage are you using for the SOC and where do you change it in Tweaker or AMD Overclocking? Whatever voltage i select on Tweaker doesn't get applied, for example I selected your voltage 1.1375V but in zen timings i get less than that. 
3. Out of curiosity what kind of PBO are you using for your CPU. I currently have 280/230/230, Scalar auto, +50Mhz boost override, curve -25 all cores.


----------



## jesdals (Jan 8, 2021)

juanyunis said:


> Damm, I'm gonna try that right now, very impressive timings. I see that you are using gear down mode, I guess with 4 sticks is very hard to achieve. Is this a daily driver? Do you use any cooling fan?


No cooling fan but have fans that send air that way  You can see my most recent settings here https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/aorus-x570-master.257392/page-16#post-4430185

2. SOC voltage is set to 1150, but try setting it lower if it dosent work you could try 1050
3. I am trying negative 5 curve settings on my best cores and negative 10 on the rest. I cant make it stable with higher negative values - 30 would not boot

Please add your curve experience to this thread https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/amd-curve-optimizer-any-guides-experience.275640/


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 8, 2021)

@jesdals your memory settings let me boot but as soon as I run Aida benchmark I get an BSOD. Could you export your bios settings and share it with me? I would like to try it.


----------



## brandon7171 (Jan 8, 2021)

juanyunis said:


> @jesdals your memory settings let me boot but as soon as I run Aida benchmark I get an BSOD. Could you export your bios settings and share it with me? I would like to try it.


Is this B-die Ram? im dealing with Sk Hynix die, just trying to find out if they any good settings for Hynix, i am using 4X8, board is crosshair formula VIII x570, CPU is Ryzen 3700X.


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 8, 2021)

brandon7171 said:


> Is this B-die Ram? im dealing with Sk Hynix die, just trying to find out if they any good settings for Hynix, i am using 4X8, board is crosshair formula VIII x570, CPU is Ryzen 3700X.


Yes, I have b die A2


----------



## jesdals (Jan 8, 2021)

juanyunis said:


> @jesdals your memory settings let me boot but as soon as I run Aida benchmark I get an BSOD. Could you export your bios settings and share it with me? I would like to try it.


Please note that there is difference between memory and cpus - so sometimes you get lucky and some times not - I have actually not that many settings - but hope it works for you


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 8, 2021)

Didn't get lucky, but I think is because your module was rated for 4400Mhz while mine was for 4000Mhz so probably you have a better bin. 

But thank you so much for your help, hopefully future bios updates would let us achieve fclk 2000 mhz with the sticks.


----------



## Trusconi (Jan 12, 2021)

Nekyno said:


> So apparently the best OC on zen 3 is to actually run 4 memory sticks.
> 
> This just landed at gamers nexus.


Hello All,
this is my first post 

I have a 5600X on X470 Aorus Ultra Gaming
I can "run" it with last bios with some little problems (cold boot reset bios setting / SIV software does not automatic start and set a profile)
It make 4250 points in CB20 without PBO enabled
My rams are Flare X 3200C14 with XMP active
I just upgrade from 2x8Gb to 4x8 Gb after see video that show improve going to "dual rank on 4 dimm"
The score in CB20 is almost the same 4300 but the loading time in game, for example BFV, is 1/4 than before (from 20 sec for example to 5 sec)
I would like to try to run the memory to 3600Mhz o maybe 3800Mhz, what do you suggest?
Actual temp in game are not so good 40/45° because i have a 3080 on a vertical mount waiting waterblock to add in custom loop (it is stopped in Belgium since 30/11)
Thank you in advance for your help
Manu


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 12, 2021)

@Trusconi I'm no expert by any means, I'm learning myself too but I can tell you that you have check what kind of chip is inside you memory, is the new second kit the same brand/speed like the first kit? In order for you to check the chip, you have to use thaiphoon burner to read info about the memories. Ideally if you have a samsung b-die then it should be possible. Try thaiphoon and upload a picture of the results.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 12, 2021)

Trusconi said:


> Hello All,
> this is my first post
> 
> I have a 5600X on X470 Aorus Ultra Gaming
> ...



If you're talking about CPU temps being around 40~45°C then I dont think you can get it any better unless you have some exotic cooling device.
If this is your dimm temps then its pretty high, around limits of any kind of RAM. You can temporary add a fan somehow close to RAM with airflow directly to sticks. 4 modules have little to no space between them and case air flow wont do the job, especially if you want to OC them.


----------



## Trusconi (Jan 12, 2021)

juanyunis said:


> @Trusconi I'm no expert by any means, I'm learning myself too but I can tell you that you have check what kind of chip is inside you memory, is the new second kit the same brand/speed like the first kit? In order for you to check the chip, you have to use thaiphoon burner to read info about the memories. Ideally if you have a samsung b-die then it should be possible. Try thaiphoon and upload a picture of the results.


All 4 dimms are the same : FlareX 3200C14


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 12, 2021)

it is samsung B-die, have you tried using DRAM Calculator with 3600Mhz? Make sure you select the correct settings, Zen 2 (This will work for Zen 3), X570/B550, memory rank 1, 4 sticks, Samsung B-die, bin select the one with A1 or A0, and then put 3600Mhz, click on safe and try those values. If ti does post and it is stable you can go ahead and try 3800Mhz.

For safer values, you can export the XMP profile from thaiphoon burner and import it into DRAM (this will put the bin selector in manual, which is desired).

Follow this guide


----------



## Trusconi (Jan 12, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> If you're talking about CPU temps being around 40~45°C then I dont think you can get it any better unless you have some exotic cooling device.
> If this is your dimm temps then its pretty high, around limits of any kind of RAM. You can temporary add a fan somehow close to RAM with airflow directly to sticks. 4 modules have little to no space between them and case air flow wont do the job, especially if you want to OC them.


CPU temperature are GOOD, if i launch a CB20 without PBO active they are under 50°
The problem of the temperature of the RAM comes from GPU "pass through cooling" solution on new 3080 cards.
It will be solved with waterblock...if they deliver it to me.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 12, 2021)

How do you mesure dimm temps? As Thaiphoon reports, your modules doesnt have temp sensors. And believe me the 3080 passing through cooler is your least problem. 4 dimms next to each other can heat up rather quickly. And if you're after more speed for them it will get worst.


----------



## Trusconi (Jan 12, 2021)

juanyunis said:


> it is samsung B-die, have you tried using DRAM Calculator with 3600Mhz? Make sure you select the correct settings, Zen 2 (This will work for Zen 3), X570/B550, memory rank 1, 4 sticks, Samsung B-die, bin select the one with A1 or A0, and then put 3600Mhz, click on safe and try those values. If ti does post and it is stable you can go ahead and try 3800Mhz.
> 
> For safer values, you can export the XMP profile from thaiphoon burner and import it into DRAM (this will put the bin selector in manual, which is desired).
> 
> Follow this guide


I am on a X470...


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 12, 2021)

Trusconi said:


> I am on a X470...


try to export the XMP profile and then use it in DRAM calculator, that would be the safest route.


----------



## Trusconi (Jan 12, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> How do you mesure dimm temps? As Thaiphoon reports, your modules doesnt have temp sensors. And believe me the 3080 passing through cooler is your least problem. 4 dimms next to each other can heat up rather quickly. And if you're after more speed for them it will get worst.


HWinfo
This picture is after 15min in idle, it goes over 40 after 1 hour of game.
In idle i have 6 on 9 fan running 700rpmm, in game i have 9 fans run 1200rpm



juanyunis said:


> try to export the XMP profile and then use it in DRAM calculator, that would be the safest route.


As you can see on top right i have imported XML


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 12, 2021)

Trusconi said:


> HWinfo
> This picture is after 15min in idle, it goes over 40 after 1 hour of game.
> In idle i have 6 on 9 fan running 700rpmm, in game i have 9 fans run 1200rpm
> 
> ...


oh you are right, but it is weird that it didn't populate the information (ns) on the left (mine did), anyway try the safe one, using recommended values. Let us know if it boots.


----------



## Trusconi (Jan 12, 2021)

juanyunis said:


> oh you are right, but it is weird that it didn't populate the information (ns) on the left (mine did), anyway try the safe one, using recommended values. Let us know if it boots.


Is now correct?


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 12, 2021)

Yes, that is more likely. If you take a look settings are different from your previous post. By the way you should really start with 3600Mhz, just to be on the safe side.


----------



## thesmokingman (Jan 12, 2021)

juanyunis said:


> try to export the XMP profile and then use it in DRAM calculator, that would be the safest route.


That doesn't always work well since dram calc is running off a set/table of assumptions. For ex. my 4000/c17 16gb dimms exported gives really poor timings in dram calc. In real world I know they run much faster since I'm running them much faster. In this case it's ignore dram calc's xmp reading, not always but it happesns.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 12, 2021)

Redid the cooling from Alphacool LT240 Eisbaer to 40mm EK 240 copper rad, Optimus Foundation AMD block, D5 Pump/res combo and another ram fan. Took sustained load temps from 72c max to 51c max.

I was able to push the ram a little harder too with the extra ram fan.


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 12, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> View attachment 183733View attachment 183734
> 
> Redid the cooling from Alphacool LT240 Eisbaer to 40mm EK 240 copper rad, Optimus Foundation AMD block, D5 Pump/res combo and another ram fan. Took sustained load temps from 72c max to 51c max.
> 
> ...


Impressive


----------



## harm9963 (Jan 12, 2021)

juanyunis said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm new here, I just read the whole thread and I see some really good people with memory settings, and I was wondering if i could get some help with my system.
> 
> ...


1.5 v for sure .


----------



## Trusconi (Jan 12, 2021)

:-o

Why FLCK is not 1900?


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 12, 2021)

Trusconi said:


> :-o
> 
> Why FLCK is not 1900?


Did you manually change it? You have to go into BIOS and AMD Overclocking menu and change infinity fabric clock to 1900


----------



## brandon7171 (Jan 12, 2021)

Trusconi said:


> :-o
> 
> Why FLCK is not 1900?


I would like to see a user bench mark test on this.. Those numbers look really nice...


----------



## Trusconi (Jan 12, 2021)

brandon7171 said:


> I would like to see a user bench mark test on this.. Those numbers look really nice...


i would like to have fclk equal to mclk before make test...



juanyunis said:


> Did you manually change it? You have to go into BIOS and AMD Overclocking menu and change infinity fabric clock to 1900


no, i change nothing. Before was 1600, it goes automatic to 1800


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 12, 2021)

Trusconi said:


> i would like to have fclk equal to mclk before make test...
> 
> 
> no, i change nothing. Before was 1600, it goes automatic to 1800


Go to BIOS > AMD Overclocking and change Infinity Fabric Clock (Hopefully this will update UCLK too)



Trusconi said:


> :-o
> 
> Why FLCK is not 1900?


I got 90% memory quality, reaching up to 4000Mhz CL16.


----------



## Trusconi (Jan 12, 2021)

juanyunis said:


> Go to BIOS > AMD Overclocking and change Infinity Fabric Clock (Hopefully this will update UCLK too)
> 
> 
> I got 90% memory quality, reaching up to 4000Mhz CL16.


i lost 100/150 points in CB20 with these timings...Maybe i could go 3800c15 or 4000c16?
Is possible i forgot to change somethings?

Thank you

Manu


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 12, 2021)

Trusconi said:


> i lost 100/150 points in CB20 with these timings...Maybe i could go 3800c15 or 4000c16?
> Is possible i forgot to change somethings?
> 
> Thank you
> ...


In my case pushing FCLK to 2000Mhz using 4 sticks was impossible, I have seen only 1 person achieving that. I'm currently waiting for gigabyte to release a new BIOS with AGESA 1.1.9.0 (it is supposed to help achieving 2000Mhz FCLK) just to give it a try. However some users that already have that AGESA said that it brought some memory problems for them. So if you go 4000C16 you won't have a 1:1 ratio unless you are lucky enough to have 2000Mhz FCLK (if you do try it and it fails to post you might have to clear CMOS depending on the quality of the board, mine has dual BIOS).

Also for 3800CL15, you are using gear down mode (so even if you put the CAS to 15, the system will increase it to 16, gear down mode doesn't support odd numbers) you could try turning off gear down mode.

I think before you try any other timings or clock speed, try turning off gear down mode, if it works it should boost your memory speed. (Memory command rate is set to 1T which means that memory clock will run at 1900Mhz, using GDM the system will reduce internally the clock in half to provide stability, so a system with GDM is considered a 1.5T command rate)


----------



## Trusconi (Jan 12, 2021)

juanyunis said:


> In my case pushing FCLK to 2000Mhz using 4 sticks was impossible, I have seen only 1 person achieving that. I'm currently waiting for gigabyte to release a new BIOS with AGESA 1.1.9.0 (it is supposed to help achieving 2000Mhz FCLK) just to give it a try. However some users that already have that AGESA said that it brought some memory problems for them. So if you go 4000C16 you won't have a 1:1 ratio unless you are lucky enough to have 2000Mhz FCLK (if you do try it and it fails to post you might have to clear CMOS depending on the quality of the board, mine has dual BIOS).
> 
> Also for 3800CL15, you are using gear down mode (so even if you put the CAS to 15, the system will increase it to 16, gear down mode doesn't support odd numbers) you could try turning off gear down mode.
> 
> I think before you try any other timings or clock speed, try turning off gear down mode, if it works it should boost your memory speed. (Memory command rate is set to 1T which means that memory clock will run at 1900Mhz, using GDM the system will reduce internally the clock in half to provide stability, so a system with GDM is considered a 1.5T command rate)


If i turn off GDM it does not boot, maybe is better to try 3600c14?
These are the temp after 90 min of BFV with XMP profile


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 12, 2021)

Trusconi said:


> If i turn off GDM it does not boot, maybe is better to try 3600c14?
> These are the temp after 90 min of BFV with XMP profile


Try it. And compare scores.


----------



## Trusconi (Jan 14, 2021)

Nekyno said:


> Brief update. I further knocked down some secondary and tertiary timings. Results below:
> View attachment 174910View attachment 174911View attachment 174912
> 
> I am gonna test it first at 1.43V DRAM . 1.44V should work for sure.
> ...


I try with settings...but it do not boot :-(


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 14, 2021)

I was only able to run with gdm off at 3400 CL14 but according to AIDA I lose memory bandwidth and the latency increased. So I reverted to 3800 CL16 with gdm. 

I will still hunt for 3800 CL14 and wait for future AGESA to try 4000CL16 with FCLK at 2000Mhz.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 14, 2021)

If you like AIDA high scores you can hunt better settings. But those high-er scores do any actual good to the system?
I mean in real life apps and games...


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 14, 2021)

@Zach_01 that is what I would like to know. I don't really care about cinebench scores or cpu z but having lower l3 cache speeds does affect any real life apps/games? 

Found this in reddit. I guess that is what it makes my cinebench scores higher. But doesn't really matter that much. I think. 


> The extra L3 cache will make a difference in memory intensive applications that are using multiple cores. Video encoding and intense gaming applications that are fully ramping up your CPU will benefit from the extra 2MB. However, this difference is going to be small. The big difference comes from _having_ L3 cache vs _not having_ L3 cache.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 14, 2021)

Specifically Cinebench does not care about RAM performance. Its raw CPU power mostly that increases scores.
My worst and my best DRAM settings with 10~15% difference in memory bandwidth and 5ns for latency had zero difference on CB R15/20.
On game FPS (min/max/avg) from 1~3%.
If I could "play" with my CPU like you all do here, maybe I could gain some more? How much? Can't really say..

It all comes down to experiments mostly and not gaining actual worthy performance increase. Who really cares about the 2, 3... 10 or even 15 more FPS when you already have 60, 100 or 150?
What I'm saying is... That it's good to experiment and try a lot of different settings and tune the system, but its not really worth risking a part, CPU mostly, or maybe a GPU that costs a small fortune.
Its fun to do, if anyone likes to fiddle, but doing it for actual performance... it gets you in dangerous paths.


----------



## JGalland (Jan 15, 2021)

What latency (and read/write speed) should I be aiming for with this kit : https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/166/1562839659/F4-3600C16D-32GTZR-Specification and some manual tuning of some of the timings ?
Also whats the best software to measure the above values ?


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 15, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Specifically Cinebench does not care about RAM performance. Its raw CPU power mostly that increases scores.
> My worst and my best DRAM settings with 10~15% difference in memory bandwidth and 5ns for latency had zero difference on CB R15/20.
> On game FPS (min/max/avg) from 1~3%.
> If I could "play" with my CPU like you all do here, maybe I could gain some more? How much? Can't really say..
> ...


I have a 240hz 1440p Samsung G7, so FPS gains of 5% are very relevant.


----------



## juanyunis (Jan 20, 2021)

I just found out that my IF1900 was giving me some random WHEAs (CPU bus/interconnect), everything related to the SoC in BIOS was set in auto, so I started tweaking it a little bit and was able to find correct settings that don't produce WHEAs and is stable enough, I ran Karhu RAMTest for about 4 hours and 16 mins with a coverage of 8000%, 0 errors. I also ran OCCT memory test with 0 errors.

I think my IF at 1900 is solid now. Next step for me will to try better timings if possible, any help is welcome.


----------



## Makaveli (Jan 31, 2021)

This is a great thread.

Currently running at 3200 with Fast profile applied and getting this.









Last night I tried this and benching is fine but seeing some instability after more testing any recommendations?


----------



## dgianstefani (Jan 31, 2021)

If you have B die you should be able to do 3600/3800 with tight timings. Even if you have to loosen a couple timings you'll still have better latency and performance.

Also B die scales with voltage and temperature. Keep it under 40c and bump voltage anywhere up to 1.7v daily to unlock tighter timings. 

Personally I run 4000/14-16-14-28 on a 3800/14 kit.


----------



## Makaveli (Feb 1, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> If you have B die you should be able to do 3600/3800 with tight timings. Even if you have to loosen a couple timings you'll still have better latency and performance.
> 
> Also B die scales with voltage and temperature. Keep it under 40c and bump voltage anywhere up to 1.7v daily to unlock tighter timings.
> 
> Personally I run 4000/14-16-14-28 on a 3800/14 kit.



Is it B-die 3200/14


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## dgianstefani (Feb 1, 2021)

maybe not.


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## tabascosauz (Feb 1, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> View attachment 186445maybe not.



Bdie finder is a resource from like goddamn 2017...it hasn't been updated like it says it has, it's pretty much dogshit at finding new kits, but apparently it's great for identifying older kits that are no longer Bdie but it claims they are, or haven't been made for the past 2 years.

3200/14 doesn't come in anything but [average] Bdie. It's just not balls-to-the-wall potential and expensive like your 3800/14 kit.


----------



## Makaveli (Feb 1, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> View attachment 186445maybe not.



I trust Thaiphoon burner which clearly says its B Die.






And this kit is 2x8GB  SR Thaiphoon burner is pulling data for one stick that is why its listed as 8 and not 16.


----------



## dgianstefani (Feb 1, 2021)

If you can read it says right there - updated January 2021.



Makaveli said:


> I trust Thaiphoon burner which clearly says its B Die.
> 
> View attachment 186449
> 
> ...


Looks like Thaiphoon and Bdie finder in agreement then.


----------



## Makaveli (Feb 1, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> If you can read it says right there - updated January 2021.
> 
> 
> Looks like Thaiphoon and Bdie finder in agreement then.



Yes i'm not aiming for 3800/4000 speeds right now just trying to get 3600 cl14 with the fast profile and Geardown off. However as I said there is some instability so I will have to load 3600 safe instead of fast to see if I can figure out what is causing it. The B die you are using should be higher quality but I should still be able to get good clocks with this.


----------



## dgianstefani (Feb 1, 2021)

Makaveli said:


> Yes i'm not aiming for 3800/4000 speeds right now just trying to get 3600 cl14 with the fast profile and Geardown off. However as I said there is some instability so I will have to load 3600 safe instead of fast to see if I can figure out what is causing it. The B die you are using should be higher quality but I should still be able to get good clocks with this.


At least some of that instability can be fixed by voltage, if you already have the optimal settings. Every kit out there is safe at 1.5v, and the better quality ones sit at 1.6/1.7 for years with no issues.

Only rule is to keep it under 40c, 45 being where you start getting a lot of errors. 35c and under preferably (which is what I have under normal use non stress), and 20c is "ideal" temperature for B die.

I'm probably going to upgrade the thermal pads under my neo's heatsink to 13w/mk ones and see if I can improve those temps by a few more degrees. I already have 2 40mm ram fans, but I think the pressure/pads aren't ideal stock. Fine for stock voltages, but I like removing every bottleneck I can.

I'm at 1.65V 24/7 so that's probably a bit more than the stock heatsinks can do under full stress. I don't have any instability, but I also don't run software that stresses my ram 24/7.


----------



## thesmokingman (Feb 1, 2021)

Makaveli said:


> Yes i'm not aiming for 3800/4000 speeds right now just trying to get 3600 cl14 with the fast profile and Geardown off. However as I said there is some instability so I will have to load 3600 safe instead of fast to see if I can figure out what is causing it. The B die you are using should be higher quality but I should still be able to get good clocks with this.


Why are you specific about disabling GDM? In reality it only needs to be diaabled when running odd numbered CAS, otherwise it's really hard to disable on its own on Zen cpu.


----------



## Makaveli (Feb 1, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> Why are you specific about disabling GDM? In reality it only needs to be diaabled when running odd numbered CAS, otherwise it's really hard to disable on its own on Zen cpu.



Based on what i've been reading so far doesn't it reduce performance?


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 1, 2021)

Makaveli said:


> Based on what i've been reading so far doesn't it reduce performance?



If you care about 0.3ns in AIDA benchmark, yeah. Are you going to feel that difference in literally everything else you do with your computer?

The stability boost is pretty significant with it on, and if you want to run with GDM off at higher speeds or tighter timings you need to compensate with quite a bit of extra voltage or get extremely lucky with CADBUS on your board. 1.5V, let alone above 1.5, is not so easily done below 50C when one does not have a sandwich case that protects everything on the board from the heat of the GPU.


----------



## thesmokingman (Feb 1, 2021)

Makaveli said:


> Based on what i've been reading so far doesn't it reduce performance?


You'd be the only human in the universe that could sense the difference?


----------



## Makaveli (Feb 1, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> If you care about 0.3ns in AIDA benchmark, yeah. Are you going to feel that difference in literally everything else you do with your computer?
> 
> The stability boost is pretty significant with it on, and if you want to run with GDM off at higher speeds or tighter timings you need to compensate with quite a bit of extra voltage or get extremely lucky with CADBUS on your board. 1.5V, let alone above 1.5, is not so easily done below 50C when one does not have a sandwich case that protects everything on the board from the heat of the GPU.



For now max voltage will be 1.45v I will need to take another look at the secondary voltage settings again for that 3600 Fast profile and test. If that failures then 3600 Safe test.

I will also test with GDM on.


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## thesmokingman (Feb 1, 2021)

Fyi, I ignore the "misc settings" in Dram Calc. There's no need to follow any of its recomendations in that box.


----------



## Chomiq (Feb 1, 2021)

Makaveli said:


> Yes i'm not aiming for 3800/4000 speeds right now just trying to get 3600 cl14 with the fast profile and Geardown off. However as I said there is some instability so I will have to load 3600 safe instead of fast to see if I can figure out what is causing it. The B die you are using should be higher quality but I should still be able to get good clocks with this.
> 
> View attachment 186452


That "overclocking potential" is total BS and doesn't mean anything as it's a fixed value for set Die type.


----------



## BossferatuEs (Feb 3, 2021)

Dreamic said:


> If you Google around you'll find lots of people not being able to get above 3200mhz on MSI boards anymore with new BIOS. I haven't seen MSI acknowledge it as an issue yet anywhere


im using my msi x570 a pro with IF at 2000 having relation 1:1:1, they dont know to config NB


----------



## Radi_SVK (Feb 4, 2021)

Hi guys, can I also please kindly ask someone to look at my numbers? I am a bit desperate here. My story is a bit of a bummer..
Just today I have received my 4x8Gb Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro paired kit,(Micron B-die) cl16 , 3600MHz , 16-19-19-36 default. 
I have decided to replace the exact RAMs, except I had 2 different 2x8GB paired kits cl18 , 3600MHz ,cl18 18-22-22-42 default. One kit was same Micron B-die and the other was some inferior Nanya, def not B-die.
So those 2 kits mixed I have tried hard to fine tune, wasnt really after OC, but just to improve timing to the max to beat that not so great 72ns latency. Due to them kits not being paired, they didnt even run at rated 1.35V together in first place. Had to use DRAM 1.4V and SoC 1.1V 
The best I managed was cl16 16-16-16-38 and that gave me 68ns at best. Not being happy I have decided to sell these and get same 32GB,but as paired kit this time, as I still like the RAM and they fit in budget.
So I got my above mentioned 4x8GB paired kit cl16 16-19-19-36 and to my disbelief and shock the best I can do atm is cl16 16-17-17-36 ?!! how is that possible? and the latency is disappointing too as it did not improve, got worse actually.
How comes the mixed non paired set was performing way better? Can you kindly suggest some settings of my new kit based on the screenshots? what am I missing? By the way, I am running my 5800X all cores OC @ 4.5GHz and voltages are tight..


----------



## evilhf (Mar 9, 2021)

Acho que ganhei na loteria de silício (IF 2020mhz 4 sticks 4x8gb gskill royal/ allcores 4,87ghz)


----------



## Taraquin (Mar 9, 2021)

evilhf said:


> Acho que ganhei na loteria de silício (IF 2020mhz 4 sticks 4x8gb gskill royal/ allcores 4,87ghz)View attachment 191631


Impressive!


----------



## Flexarius (Mar 9, 2021)

@evilhf 

cool!

could you take a picture with ZenTimings? It's very helpful to showing all your settings.

Thanks

https://zentimings.protonrom.com/


----------



## JawnyS (Mar 15, 2021)

hello, i have 4 stick of hyper x 4000mhz cl19 kit, there is also a 2nd xmp profile at 3600 17-18-18-18
i can do 3600 mhz with 1.365V 100 stable with hcl mem test 600 %, but anything above 3600mhz will give me error no matter what ive tried many different settings, voltage etc. there is no temp sensor on these sticks so i dont know if im making error because of temps or not, i recently change my board for an asus x570 hero wifi, before i was using an x570 asrock steel legend, with the steel leging i manage to get 3933 cl 16-19-19-19 at 1.45, but i was getting usb disconnect all the time, but the ram was stable 600% as well, but i cant make it work on this board, anybody has any advice, my ram is b-die but its not the pcbp one as you can see on taiphoon burner


----------



## JGalland (Mar 16, 2021)

Hi guys, 

I'm running a F4-3600C16D-32GTZR kit from G.Skill on an Asrock X570 Taichi w/ Ryzen 5 5600X.

For overall performance, mainly in gaming, do you think I should go for higher frequency (to bump the infinity clock to 1900 Mhz) or tighter timings ?


----------



## Alyjen (Mar 17, 2021)

JGalland said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm running a F4-3600C16D-32GTZR kit from G.Skill on an Asrock X570 Taichi w/ Ryzen 5 5600X.
> 
> For overall performance, mainly in gaming, do you think I should go for higher frequency (to bump the infinity clock to 1900 Mhz) or tighter timings ?


and your current timings are? overall I think it's easier (and still fast) to aim for something like 3600CL14, it's doable, doesn't require high voltage, is 24/7 stable etc. if you want to have it faster then next step is 3800CL15 BUT this requires some serious tweaking due to gear down mode, and also higher voltage, 3800CL14 is usually above 1.5V and 4000CL16 seems easy for memory but it's very hard due to IF limitations

I run my set at 3733CL14 at 1.48V but if I had 4 dims and not only two I'd have to tweak it a bit more and most likely I'd drop the frequency a bit, not that you'll see it anywhere in real life applications


----------



## JGalland (Mar 17, 2021)

Alyjen said:


> and your current timings are? overall I think it's easier (and still fast) to aim for something like 3600CL14, it's doable, doesn't require high voltage, is 24/7 stable etc. if you want to have it faster then next step is 3800CL15 BUT this requires some serious tweaking due to gear down mode, and also higher voltage, 3800CL14 is usually above 1.5V and 4000CL16 seems easy for memory but it's very hard due to IF limitations
> 
> I run my set at 3733CL14 at 1.48V but if I had 4 dims and not only two I'd have to tweak it a bit more and most likely I'd drop the frequency a bit, not that you'll see it anywhere in real life applications



Right now I'm running very conservative timings :

16 - 16 - 16 - 16 - 34 - 50
with tfaw @ 28 and tRFC @ 258

The Taichi isn't the best for memory overclocking afaik. I believe with 1.45V I could achieve CL14 ; I just wonder what DIMM temperatures are acceptable ?


----------



## Alyjen (Mar 17, 2021)

JGalland said:


> Right now I'm running very conservative timings :
> 
> 16 - 16 - 16 - 16 - 34 - 50
> with tfaw @ 28 and tRFC @ 258
> ...


Temps depends on the memory die used, e.g. b-dies can take more abuse than others, but the rule of thumb is that if it's not crashing then temps are ok, and errors caused by temperatures are usually easy to spot as they only appear later in the tests, or after you heat up your set by other tests or gaming (like memtest is working if you run it, but won't if you run it after 30 minutes of prime/occt)


----------



## JawnyS (Mar 25, 2021)

ive managed to get 4 stick of samsung b-die but the bcrc one at 3800, these are the timings i have achieve below from what i was at before 3600, its 100 % stable, im getting about 57 ns on aida with these timings. im using a 5900x and a x570 hero wifi, for some reason i cant seems to go higher than 3800, my system is really really slow when i go higher than 3800, on my x570 asrock steel legeng i was able to get 3933 stable with 4 stick but with much looser sub timings, im using 1.42 V on dram, anyone here has experience overclock these b-die -bcrc


----------



## oobymach (Mar 25, 2021)

Is your VDDG on auto? I had trouble with mine on auto, setting it to manual 0.95v seems to have stabilized it for me. Hope this helps.


----------



## Zach_01 (Mar 26, 2021)

JawnyS said:


> ive managed to get 4 stick of samsung b-die but the bcrc one at 3800, these are the timings i have achieve below from what i was at before 3600, its 100 % stable, im getting about 57 ns on aida with these timings. im using a 5900x and a x570 hero wifi, for some reason i cant seems to go higher than 3800, my system is really really slow when i go higher than 3800, on my x570 asrock steel legeng i was able to get 3933 stable with 4 stick but with much looser sub timings, im using 1.42 V on dram, anyone here has experience overclock these b-die -bcrc


Very few systems can run stably over 1900MHz. Even 1900MHz is not guaranteed.
At this point (you are) its better to try to tight timings as far as they can go. How far it will depend on the DRAM voltage you are willing to run your b-dies and also on sticks quality (ICs and PCB)
From what I see there a lot of them that can be improved and should let latency come closer to 50ns. For sure under 55ns is achievable.

But personally I wouldn't start giving advise before asking...
How did you determine the system's stability?

The MEMbench on "DRAM Calculator for Ryzen" will give you a quick (2~3mins max or less) idea about DRAM errors. If it passes without errors is a very good sign. But thats not enough. For 100% stability you need longer RAM bench and I'm sure other users here are more experienced to suggest.
Also, gaming on different demanding games is nice RAM test for at least 1~2hours.

Do you have temp sensors on those sticks? You can see it with ThaiphoonBurner software(click Read button) and if yes HWiNFO64 sensors mode will give you the ability to monitor (dimm) temp values (Current, Min, Max, Avg).


----------



## JawnyS (Mar 26, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> Very few systems can run stably over 1900MHz. Even 1900MHz is not guaranteed.
> At this point (you are) its better to try to tight timings as far as they can go. How far it will depend on the DRAM voltage you are willing to run your b-dies and also on sticks quality (ICs and PCB)
> From what I see there a lot of them that can be improved and should let latency come closer to 50ns. For sure under 55ns is achievable.
> 
> ...


i did hcl mem test all 24 threads 29 gb total for 600 % on each thread , ive been gaming warzone without crashing which is quite an accomplishment if you ask me, and there is no temps sensor on these sticks unfortunatly. i dont think the temperature is a problem, it could since 4 sticks doesnt give much space between them, but my case is very well ventilated, with 2 140 intake in front, 1 in the back and two on top quite close to the ram stick, so there is no warm stagnant air in the case thats for sure, all of them are corsair ml pro, and the two fans on top are phantek fan


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## Zach_01 (Mar 26, 2021)

If case airflow is good then you shouldn’t face any thermal issues up to at least 1.45V DRAM voltage.

For starters:
16-18-18-18-36-54 (first 6 of ZenTimings)
tRFC: tRC x 6 + 8 = 332

If you want try straight
16-16-16-16-34-50 (first 6 of ZenTimings)
tRFC: tRC x 6 + 8 = 308
or
tRFC: tRC x 5 + 8 = 258


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## JawnyS (Mar 26, 2021)

oh did try that anything below 19 for trcd will give me error almost instantly for some reason with these stick at this frequency even at 1.5 v, as i said earlier its samsung b-die but not the pcpb variant, it is bcrc one, i suspect i cant tighten the timing as much on this one


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## JawnyS (Mar 28, 2021)

ok so i didnt change any timing, but i did do trc x5 + 8 with the timings i have wich gives me 308 and im getting between 56.2 and 56.5 on aida now,  i cant lower trcd for some reason, i havent tried to lower trp, and i believe i have room to lower trc as well, getting close to 55ns now


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## Zach_01 (Mar 28, 2021)

sofia99 said:


> is it something to do with amd high voltage?


What do you mean by that? (honest question)



JawnyS said:


> ok so i didnt change any timing, but i did do trc x5 + 8 with the timings i have wich gives me 308 and im getting between 56.2 and 56.5 on aida now,  i cant lower trcd for some reason, i havent tried to lower trp, and i believe i have room to lower trc as well, getting close to 55ns now


You can try tRFC 248 (60x4+8)
or
tRC: 58
tRFC: 298 or 240

I dont have a clue why tRCDs, tRP cant play below 19.

Another question
Do you have Rtt (Nom, Wr, Park) on auto or these are manual settings? I think 99% of 4 stick configurations have those at RZQ 7/3/1 respectively.


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## Space Lynx (Mar 28, 2021)

I gave up on ram overclocking, it will be stable for a full week then give me random errors. I find it's best just to use XMP since my mobo supports my ram QVL - and just be happy I have anything at all  

/shrug


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## JawnyS (Mar 29, 2021)

Zach_01 said:


> What do you mean by that? (honest question)
> 
> 
> You can try tRFC 248 (60x4+8)
> ...


i did put rzq at 7 3 1 , still cant lower trcds without errors, like i said on taiphoon burner my ram is stated at b-die but its bcrc one, most user with good overclock have b-die but the pcpb one, i havent seen much data on the bcrc variant of b-die to be honest


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## Zach_01 (Mar 29, 2021)

I see
Mine is BCPB but I dont have a clue of it either. PCB revision is A0.


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## Finnedsgang (Mar 30, 2021)

i'm trying to use the dram calculator with a 5800x on a x570 motherboard and a kit 2x16gb Crucial Ballistix Max RGB Micron Bdie with a 4000mhz 19-18-18 but everthyng i try i have a message "not supported" ... 
Can someone help?


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## Zach_01 (Mar 30, 2021)

Finnedsgang said:


> i'm trying to use the dram calculator with a 5800x on a x570 motherboard and a kit 2x16gb Crucial Ballistix Max RGB Micron Bdie with a 4000mhz 19-18-18 but everthyng i try i have a message "not supported" ...
> Can someone help?


It means Micron's B-dies wasnt tested in that speed so the calculator doesn't have the appropriate profile for it.


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## Finnedsgang (Mar 30, 2021)

So i have to lower the clock ?


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## JawnyS (Mar 31, 2021)

Finnedsgang said:


> So i have to lower the clock ?


i would try the timing you get at the higher frequency dram calculator is giving you and work from that


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## PDK (Jan 29, 2022)

Any news about zen3 timing calculator? Im using Ryzen Dram calculator but results are not the best i think.


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## equlizer (Jan 30, 2022)

the calculator is just an educated guess.  you need to read up on








						MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper
					

C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com
				




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/ahs5a2


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## chr0nos (Jan 30, 2022)

equlizer said:


> the calculator is just an educated guess.  you need to read up on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


TLDR;  just use XMP save the headache for just a crappy fps more


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## Space Lynx (Nov 1, 2022)

I don't know where else to ask this, but I think the guy who made the dram calculator is also making one for rx 6800 xt gpu's, can anyone confirm if this is still being done? or am i remembering wrong  @P4-630 I feel like I remember you posting something about this, but I can't find the post on it anymore.


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## P4-630 (Nov 1, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> I don't know where else to ask this, but I think the guy who made the dram calculator is also making one for rx 6800 xt gpu's, can anyone confirm if this is still being done? or am i remembering wrong  @P4-630 I feel like I remember you posting something about this, but I can't find the post on it anymore.



I had to dig in my older posts but I think you meant this:









						The RX 6000 series Owners' Club
					

I really wish they did a proper driver already for windows 11 22h2 Microsoft released a new driver again i know their opengl driver is stable for me, but the AMD control panel does not work unless i reinstall the entire system, because it refuses to install whole driver, another thing atleast...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Space Lynx (Nov 1, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> I had to dig in my older posts but I think you meant this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thats the one i meant yep, thanks! going to see if anymore news on this.


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