# WD Black SN850 1 TB SSD



## W1zzard (Feb 12, 2021)

The WD Black SN850 is the fastest SSD we ever tested thanks to support for the fast PCI-Express 4.0 interface. In our extensive real-life testing it beats the Samsung 980 Pro, the Phison E18-based Corsair MP600 Pro, and even the MLC-based Samsung 970 Pro.

*Show full review*


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Feb 12, 2021)

I never thought to see WD (sandisk) beat Samsung SSDs in performance but here we are


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## xorbe (Feb 12, 2021)

ADATA is the winner at 87% perf and 211% value.


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## Anymal (Feb 12, 2021)

The fastest sdd, not!


			https://tpucdn.com/review/western-digital-wd-black-sn850-1-tb-ssd/images/shadow-of-the-tomb-raider.png
		




xorbe said:


> ADATA is the winner at 87% perf and 211% value.


A2000 is even better.


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## Kirsebaer (Feb 12, 2021)

Why the use of old chipset drivers and BIOS?


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## Searing (Feb 12, 2021)

This is my favorite SSD. I've bought many and it runs really well and I haven't had the overheating problems I've had with other high end models.


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## 57op (Feb 12, 2021)

is this SSD TCG Opal 2.0 compliant?


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## jonup (Feb 13, 2021)

57op said:


> is this SSD TCG Opal 2.0 compliant?


Probably not. Only the CL (Commercial) models usually support TCG Opal 2.0. There is no SN850 commercial counterpart yet. Probably sooner rather than later though.


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## altermere (Feb 13, 2021)

Anymal said:


> The fastest sdd, not!
> 
> 
> https://tpucdn.com/review/western-digital-wd-black-sn850-1-tb-ssd/images/shadow-of-the-tomb-raider.png
> ...


isn't this an old game that's still bottlenecked by the CPU asset unpacking speed? the conclusion right now is that you won't get any meaningful loading boost from an expensive SSD, the games are still made for spinny drives in old consoles and their atrocious CPUs.


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## Palladium (Feb 13, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> I never thought to see WD (sandisk) beat Samsung SSDs in performance but here we are



The SN850 1TB is priced the same as a 970 Evo from where I at, and the 970/980 Pro is even more expensive.


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## Selaya (Feb 13, 2021)

Kirsebaer said:


> Why the use of old chipset drivers and BIOS?


Benchmark consistency. Every time you change _anything_ about your bench rig, you'll have to rebench all your comparison hardware (SSDs) in that case as identical performance behavior cannot be guaranteed between different versions of software.


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## monkeyboy46800 (Feb 13, 2021)

Why test this SSD on an out of date bios and old Agesa code?

Apart from that, pretty good review 

My SN850 is DOA, RMA in progress due to low write speeds: WD SN850 Slower than expected performance | TechPowerUp Forums



Selaya said:


> Benchmark consistency. Every time you change _anything_ about your bench rig, you'll have to rebench all your comparison hardware (SSDs) in that case as identical performance behavior cannot be guaranteed between different versions of software.


 Or these drives are bugged on newer agesa code and chipset, that's my conspiracy theory


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## Makaveli (Feb 13, 2021)

Drive is fast but man does she run hot.

Any chance you get the version with a heatsink in for testing?


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## TheLostSwede (Feb 13, 2021)

monkeyboy46800 said:


> Why test this SSD on an out of date bios and old Agesa code?
> 
> Apart from that, pretty good review
> 
> ...


First of all, you're clearly not a reviewer, nor even capable of providing necessary information when asking questions, so in your thread, we have to ask you questions to try to solve your problem. Benchmarking systems stay the same, for a very long time, or you end up having to start over from scratch, as all parameters are no longer the same and this means you have to re-test everything if you don't want to start from a clean sheet.

Secondly, DOA doesn't mean what you think. It means Dead on Arrival, i.e. it never worked. Your drive clearly worked, you just found one of the odd glitches that happens with SSDs at times. I also informed you I had a similar problem, but I can't remember exactly what solved it, as it was a couple of years ago. It's not a faulty drive.

And you're drawing conclusions based on your one drive experience, which makes it a flawed conclusion.

You clearly don't know much about hardware when you admit you don't even know how to format a drive with different sector sizes. If you're going to bash @W1zzard for how he reviews things, then you better be at his level or better at what he's doing.


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## jixgtt (Feb 13, 2021)

Why does the SLC cache flush as soon as the drive stops writing?


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## W1zzard (Feb 13, 2021)

jixgtt said:


> Why does the SLC cache flush as soon as the drive stops writing?


It flushes all the time, in background. If you take write load off the drive for a second, that’s 1 second of idle time in which it can flush the cache at multiple gb/s, freeing up tons of slc capacity each second.

does that make sense?



monkeyboy46800 said:


> Why test this SSD on an out of date bios and old Agesa code?


I change hardware and software like once per year for the ssd rig. Obviously i don’twant to mix old and new data and then make comparisons.

there’s nothing to be gained from upgrading bios drivers or software at this time, so why invalidate all my data and spend a month full time doing nothing  but retesting current drives for new comparison data? You are free to come visit and help me with benchmarking.


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## Space Lynx (Feb 13, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> You are free to come visit and help me with benchmarking.



Just let me know when you have your spare couch ready for me.


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## low (Feb 13, 2021)

Lets say we change the test system to intel 5,2ghz, DDR4-4000 Cl17 and PCI-E 3.0. The gaming benchmarks are somehow limited, maybe cpu+memory.


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## monkeyboy46800 (Feb 13, 2021)

low said:


> ystem to intel 5,2ghz, DDR4-4000 Cl17 and PCI-E 3.0. Th





W1zzard said:


> It flushes all the time, in background. If you take write load off the drive for a second, that’s 1 second of idle time in which it can flush the cache at multiple gb/s, freeing up tons of slc capacity each second.
> 
> does that make sense?
> 
> ...


Hi Wizzard,
I agree their is nothing to be gained, but what is interesting for your viewers is if there is something to be lost when using newer hardware code.


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## ThrashZone (Feb 13, 2021)

Hi,
Always got the black series on hdd's too bad intel/ asus hasn't gone pci-e 4 yet.
You can always assume an m.2 needs a heatsink


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## monkeyboy46800 (Feb 14, 2021)

Full Specs:


```
root@PartedMagic:~# nvme id-ctrl /dev/nvme0n1 -H | more
NVME Identify Controller:
vid       : 0x15b7
ssvid     : 0x15b7
sn        :
mn        : WDS100T1X0E-00AFY0                   
fr        : 611110WD
rab       : 4
ieee      : 001b44
cmic      : 0
  [3:3] : 0    ANA not supported
  [2:2] : 0    PCI
  [1:1] : 0    Single Controller
  [0:0] : 0    Single Port

mdts      : 7
cntlid    : 0x2020
ver       : 0x10400
rtd3r     : 0x7a120
rtd3e     : 0xf4240
oaes      : 0x200
[27:27] : 0    Zone Descriptor Changed Notices Not Supported
[14:14] : 0    Endurance Group Event Aggregate Log Page Change Notice Not Supported
[13:13] : 0    LBA Status Information Notices Not Supported
[12:12] : 0    Predictable Latency Event Aggregate Log Change Notices Not Supported
[11:11] : 0    Asymmetric Namespace Access Change Notices Not Supported
  [9:9] : 0x1    Firmware Activation Notices Supported
  [8:8] : 0    Namespace Attribute Changed Event Not Supported

ctratt    : 0x2
  [9:9] : 0    UUID List Not Supported
  [7:7] : 0    Namespace Granularity Not Supported
  [5:5] : 0    Predictable Latency Mode Not Supported
  [4:4] : 0    Endurance Groups Not Supported
  [3:3] : 0    Read Recovery Levels Not Supported
  [2:2] : 0    NVM Sets Not Supported
  [1:1] : 0x1    Non-Operational Power State Permissive Supported
  [0:0] : 0    128-bit Host Identifier Not Supported

rrls      : 0
cntrltype : 1
  [7:2] : 0    Reserved
  [1:0] : 0x1    I/O Controller
fguid     :
crdt1     : 0
crdt2     : 0
crdt3     : 0
oacs      : 0x17
  [9:9] : 0    Get LBA Status Capability Not Supported
  [8:8] : 0    Doorbell Buffer Config Not Supported
  [7:7] : 0    Virtualization Management Not Supported
  [6:6] : 0    NVMe-MI Send and Receive Not Supported
  [5:5] : 0    Directives Not Supported
  [4:4] : 0x1    Device Self-test Supported
  [3:3] : 0    NS Management and Attachment Not Supported
  [2:2] : 0x1    FW Commit and Download Supported
  [1:1] : 0x1    Format NVM Supported
  [0:0] : 0x1    Security Send and Receive Supported

acl       : 4
aerl      : 7
frmw      : 0x14
  [4:4] : 0x1    Firmware Activate Without Reset Supported
  [3:1] : 0x2    Number of Firmware Slots
  [0:0] : 0    Firmware Slot 1 Read/Write

lpa       : 0x1e
  [4:4] : 0x1    Persistent Event log Supported
  [3:3] : 0x1    Telemetry host/controller initiated log page Supported
  [2:2] : 0x1    Extended data for Get Log Page Supported
  [1:1] : 0x1    Command Effects Log Page Supported
  [0:0] : 0    SMART/Health Log Page per NS Not Supported

elpe      : 255
npss      : 0
avscc     : 0x1
  [0:0] : 0x1    Admin Vendor Specific Commands uses NVMe Format

apsta     : 0
  [0:0] : 0    Autonomous Power State Transitions Not Supported

wctemp    : 357
cctemp    : 361
mtfa      : 50
hmpre     : 0
hmmin     : 0
tnvmcap   : 1000204886016
unvmcap   : 0
rpmbs     : 0
[31:24]: 0    Access Size
[23:16]: 0    Total Size
  [5:3] : 0    Authentication Method
  [2:0] : 0    Number of RPMB Units

edstt     : 102
dsto      : 1
fwug      : 1
kas       : 0
hctma     : 0x1
  [0:0] : 0x1    Host Controlled Thermal Management Supported

mntmt     : 273
mxtmt     : 357
sanicap   : 0x60000002
  [31:30] : 0x1    Media is not additionally modified after sanitize operation completes successfully
  [29:29] : 0x1    No-Deallocate After Sanitize bit in Sanitize command Not Supported
    [2:2] : 0    Overwrite Sanitize Operation Not Supported
    [1:1] : 0x1    Block Erase Sanitize Operation Supported
    [0:0] : 0    Crypto Erase Sanitize Operation Not Supported

hmminds   : 0
hmmaxd    : 0
nsetidmax : 0
endgidmax : 0
anatt     : 0
anacap    : 0
  [7:7] : 0    Non-zero group ID Not Supported
  [6:6] : 0    Group ID does not change
  [4:4] : 0    ANA Change state Not Supported
  [3:3] : 0    ANA Persistent Loss state Not Supported
  [2:2] : 0    ANA Inaccessible state Not Supported
  [1:1] : 0    ANA Non-optimized state Not Supported
  [0:0] : 0    ANA Optimized state Not Supported

anagrpmax : 0
nanagrpid : 0
pels      : 1
sqes      : 0x66
  [7:4] : 0x6    Max SQ Entry Size (64)
  [3:0] : 0x6    Min SQ Entry Size (64)

cqes      : 0x44
  [7:4] : 0x4    Max CQ Entry Size (16)
  [3:0] : 0x4    Min CQ Entry Size (16)

maxcmd    : 0
nn        : 1
oncs      : 0x5f
  [8:8] : 0    Copy Not Supported
  [7:7] : 0    Verify Not Supported
  [6:6] : 0x1    Timestamp Supported
  [5:5] : 0    Reservations Not Supported
  [4:4] : 0x1    Save and Select Supported
  [3:3] : 0x1    Write Zeroes Supported
  [2:2] : 0x1    Data Set Management Supported
  [1:1] : 0x1    Write Uncorrectable Supported
  [0:0] : 0x1    Compare Supported

fuses     : 0
  [0:0] : 0    Fused Compare and Write Not Supported

fna       : 0
  [2:2] : 0    Crypto Erase Not Supported as part of Secure Erase
  [1:1] : 0    Crypto Erase Applies to Single Namespace(s)
  [0:0] : 0    Format Applies to Single Namespace(s)

vwc       : 0x7
  [2:1] : 0x3    The Flush command supports NSID set to FFFFFFFFh
  [0:0] : 0x1    Volatile Write Cache Present

awun      : 0
awupf     : 0
icsvscc     : 1
  [0:0] : 0x1    NVM Vendor Specific Commands uses NVMe Format

nwpc      : 0
  [2:2] : 0    Permanent Write Protect Not Supported
  [1:1] : 0    Write Protect Until Power Supply Not Supported
  [0:0] : 0    No Write Protect and Write Protect Namespace Not Supported

acwu      : 0
ocfs      : 0
sgls      : 0
[1:0]  : 0    Scatter-Gather Lists Not Supported

mnan      : 0
subnqn    : nqn.2018-01.com.wdc:nguid:E8238FA6BF53-0001-001B448B49D849B0
ioccsz    : 0
iorcsz    : 0
icdoff    : 0
ctrattr   : 0
  [0:0] : 0    Dynamic Controller Model

msdbd     : 0
ps    0 : mp:9.00W operational enlat:0 exlat:0 rrt:0 rrl:0
          rwt:0 rwl:0 idle_power:0.6300W active_power:9.00W
```


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## jixgtt (Feb 14, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> It flushes all the time, in background. If you take write load off the drive for a second, that’s 1 second of idle time in which it can flush the cache at multiple gb/s, freeing up tons of slc capacity each second.
> 
> does that make sense?


I can guess that there is some fixed, internal rate for flushing the cache.



> Of course, when you momentarily stop the write activity, the SLC cache will free up capacity immediately, so full write rates are available as soon as you give the drive a moment to settle down.





> Newer TLC drives use part of their capacity in SLC mode for increased performance.


I read the article as flushing 277GB instantly. I thought that might be possible if those cells were toggled to TLC and others switched to SLC. I wasn't sure what exactly was meant. 

My question is answered.


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## Anymal (Feb 14, 2021)

How much would true all SLC 500gb ssd pcie5 next gen cost?


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## TheLostSwede (Feb 14, 2021)

Anymal said:


> How much would true all SLC 500gb ssd pcie5 next gen cost?


All the chicken paprikash in Sokovia.


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## W1zzard (Feb 14, 2021)

Anymal said:


> How much would true all SLC 500gb ssd pcie5 next gen cost?


3 times the Price of tlc


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## Caring1 (Feb 14, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> 3 times the Price of tlc


And Tender Loving Care is priceless.


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## b1k3rdude (Feb 14, 2021)

How exactly is the SN850 the fastest drive like?

Where are the Crystaldiskmark results? Where are the 4kQD1 read/write results that show MB/s not IOPS, where are the full/max sequential read/write results? 

All this review does for me is confirm the 970 EVO is still faster than most drives, including the PCIe 4.0 980 pro in most scenarios.


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## W1zzard (Feb 14, 2021)

b1k3rdude said:


> Where are the 4kQD1 read/write results that show MB/s not IOPS, where are the full/max sequential read/write results?


You can convert straight from MB/s to IOPS and vice versa, it's just one multiplication.

Full max results are listed in the chart on the synthetic testing page, look at whatever QD you fancy. They are completely useless numbers that are used for marketing only, real-life never runs at those QDs

I'm going far beyond what any reviewer does to give you real-life numbers and you ask for CDM that every noob can run, gz


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## monkeyboy46800 (Feb 14, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> You can convert straight from MB/s to IOPS and vice versa, it's just one multiplication.
> 
> Full max results are listed in the chart on the synthetic testing page, look at whatever QD you fancy. They are completely useless numbers that are used for marketing only, real-life never runs at those QDs



W1zzard , which firmware did you use on the drive when testing ?​
EDIT - you used the latest as mentioned on first page.


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## W1zzard (Feb 14, 2021)

monkeyboy46800 said:


> W1zzard , which firmware did you use on the drive when testing ?​


Listed in the table 1 on page 1, 611110WD, the latest as of last week


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## monkeyboy46800 (Feb 14, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> Listed in the table 1 on page 1, 611110WD, the latest as of last week


One thing you didn't mention in the review is dual firmware slots, good in case of bad firmware upgrade I presume ? But how can we flip from firmware slot 1 to 2 ? Maybe something to ask WD?


```
=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Number:                       WDS100T1X0E-00AFY0
Serial Number:                 
Firmware Version:                   611110WD
PCI Vendor/Subsystem ID:            0x15b7
IEEE OUI Identifier:                0x001b44
Total NVM Capacity:                 1,000,204,886,016 [1.00 TB]
Unallocated NVM Capacity:           0
Controller ID:                      8224
Number of Namespaces:               1
Namespace 1 Size/Capacity:          1,000,204,886,016 [1.00 TB]
Namespace 1 Formatted LBA Size:     4096
Namespace 1 IEEE EUI-64:            001b44 8b49d849b0
Local Time is:                      Sun Feb 14 00:17:50 2021 CST
Firmware Updates (0x14):            2 Slots, no Reset required
Optional Admin Commands (0x0017):   Security Format Frmw_DL Self_Test
Optional NVM Commands (0x005f):     Comp Wr_Unc DS_Mngmt Wr_Zero Sav/Sel_Feat Timestmp
Maximum Data Transfer Size:         128 Pages
Warning  Comp. Temp. Threshold:     84 Celsius
Critical Comp. Temp. Threshold:     88 Celsius
Namespace 1 Features (0x02):        NA_Fields
```


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## W1zzard (Feb 14, 2021)

monkeyboy46800 said:


> One thing you didn't mention in the review is dual firmware slots, good in case of bad flash I presume ? But how can we flip from firmware slot 1 to 2 ?


Great question, no idea.

Since the only way to update firmware is through WD's own tools, which come with warranty, I'm not sure if there's any use for such a feature


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## omerfak (Feb 14, 2021)

I'm considering buying a new 1 TB NVMe SSD and the SN850 looks impressive.




But looking at these prices, it just doesn't make sense to me to buy one.


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## W1zzard (Feb 14, 2021)

omerfak said:


> But looking at these prices, it just doesn't make sense to me to buy one.


Agreed, especially if price/performance is important to you


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## Anymal (Feb 14, 2021)

As always, 100% the price, 5% real life application boost.


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## voltage (Feb 14, 2021)

impressive.


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## Nater (Feb 14, 2021)

Still feeling good about my SX8200 Pro 2 TB purchase.  Until I start moving 100GB's a day around, I have no use for that price premium.


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## ThrashZone (Feb 14, 2021)

W1zzard said:


> You can convert straight from MB/s to IOPS and vice versa, it's just one multiplication.
> 
> Full max results are listed in the chart on the synthetic testing page, look at whatever QD you fancy. They are completely useless numbers that are used for marketing only, real-life never runs at those QDs
> 
> I'm going far beyond what any reviewer does to give you real-life numbers and you ask for CDM that every noob can run, gz


Hi,
Yeah thanks for not using as ssd either lol


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## DAWMan (Feb 15, 2021)

So glad I don’t need the fastest or PCI 4.0.
PCI 3.0 works great for my real time needs and are much cheaper now.
Thanks PCI 4.0.
Thanks AMD.


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## havox (Feb 15, 2021)

Isn't Intel 905p Optane the fastest SSD in just about any real-life home scenario? Too bad Intel killed off those series.


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## Shatun_Bear (Feb 15, 2021)

omerfak said:


> I'm considering buying a new 1 TB NVMe SSD and the SN850 looks impressive.
> View attachment 188232
> But looking at these prices, it just doesn't make sense to me to buy one.



Yep, the difference nearly everyone will notice in real world will be zero.

I went with an £86 1TB WD Blue from Amazon instead of paying almost 3X for something like this.


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## DAWMan (Feb 15, 2021)

havox said:


> Isn't Intel 905p Optane the fastest SSD in just about any real-life home scenario? Too bad Intel killed off those series.


These are especially good for audio/sample streaming, where the random reads and low latency are key. 

I’m waiting for a price drop since the discontinuation, but in all honesty I’m more into live performance rather than recording massive streaming instruments, so Samsung Pro/EVOs are plenty of bandwidth. But sure would like to get the 22210 M.2 because it’s such a great device, just can’t see 4 figures for a 980GB.


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## Chrispy_ (Feb 16, 2021)

There's nothing that supports it yet, right, but the ideal companion to these blistering sustained read/write rates is surely DirectStorage?

Do we know any more about developers using it, or is it still being worked on by Microsoft/Nvidia?


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## Fluffmeister (Feb 16, 2021)

omerfak said:


> I'm considering buying a new 1 TB NVMe SSD and the SN850 looks impressive.
> View attachment 188232
> But looking at these prices, it just doesn't make sense to me to buy one.



Very happy with my A2000, for the price it punches well above it's weight.


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## efikkan (Feb 16, 2021)

I was planning to throw an Optane into my next workstation build, but with that option gone I'm torn between the four top contenders; Samsung 970 Pro, 980 Pro, Corsair MP600 and WD SN850.
I guess it's fairly hard to know the long-term reliability these except for the 970 Pro, but I'm leaning towards it due to MLC and a proven track record, or perhaps 970 Pro for my workspace and one of the others for the OS?
Are there other good MLC or SLC options left?


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## tomfuegue (Feb 16, 2021)

Excellent review, I have the same but in 2TB version and it's performance is fantastic. 399€ on Amazon Spain.

399€


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## evolucion8 (Mar 18, 2021)

Not bad, I recently purchased the WD Black SN750 1TB for around $130, one for my laptop and one for my desktop. Can't complain with its performance, also made sure that I used the boards heatsink to keep it cool and the laptop optional heatsink for it. I don't see with good eyes the usage of these SSDs without any sort of heatsink for long term.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

@W1zzard 

I just read this article, and how gen5 is already on target for 2.5 million read IOPS... 1.5 million faster than this sn850!!!  Crazy! If we employ quantum mechanics, there is a chance when W1zz tests this gen5 unit he may accidentally be transported to the moon!!!!  









						Kioxia is close to releasing a PCIe 5.0 SSD that can hit 14,000 MB/s
					

Only a few months ago, Seagate joined the PCIe 4.0 elite SSD club of Samsung and Sabrent with speeds of over 7,000 megabytes per second. Corsair was...




					www.techspot.com


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## mtrantalainen (Oct 17, 2021)

"The Fastest SSD" without including Intel 905P SSD at all? Really?

The Intel 905 SSD is about 5x faster than any of the SSD storage devices in this test (random read 4K QD 1 with 1 thread a.k.a. the only really important test for any storage device).


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## Chrispy_ (Oct 17, 2021)

mtrantalainen said:


> "The Fastest SSD" without including Intel 905P SSD at all? Really?
> 
> The Intel 905 SSD is about 5x faster than any of the SSD storage devices in this test (random read 4K QD 1 with 1 thread a.k.a. the only really important test for any storage device).


SSD in the PC industry refers to NAND flash, which Optane isn't.
If you want to be pedantic and say that Optane is a "solid state drive" then so are lots of other things like RAM, DVD discs, and BIOS chips.

Realistically, Optane isn't considered for consumer PCs because it's 8x the cost and only 5x faster in synthetic tests. In real-world consumer tasks, an Optane SSD and decent NVMe drive would provide experiences so similar that people would struggle to identify which was which in blind A/B testing.

Take game level loading for example; A good drive loads a level in 20 seconds and a bad drive loads a level in 22 seconds. That's because the CPU takes 19.8 seconds to decompress the data. Whether it takes the SSD 0.2 seconds or 2.0 seconds to read the data off the drive is kind of irrelevant really.


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## mtrantalainen (Oct 17, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> SSD in the PC industry refers to NAND flash, which Optane isn't.


SSD literally means Solid State Drive. Did you notice the letters "SSD" in the name of the Intel's product?

I agree that 905P is more expensive than slower drivers but then again you don't get 2x the performance of 50% cheaper drivers with Samsung 980 PRO either which I guess would be included in your "SSD really means NAND" idea.



Chrispy_ said:


> In real-world consumer tasks, an Optane SSD and decent NVMe drive would provide experiences so similar that people would struggle to identify which was which in blind A/B testing.


If you really believe that "people" cannot see difference between 5x faster drive then I guess any SSD will do for those people and benchmarking any SSD drives is wasted effort. I can definitely see difference between 905P and e.g. Samsung 980 but I know where the difference really shows. On the other hand, I also know how much more expensive 905P is so I don't get it for every system.

I also know not to declare slower devices as fastest.


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## Chrispy_ (Oct 18, 2021)

mtrantalainen said:


> SSD literally means Solid State Drive. Did you notice the letters "SSD" in the name of the Intel's product?


I predicted you would be this pedantic.


Chrispy_ said:


> If you want to be pedantic and say that Optane is a "solid state drive" then so are lots of other things like RAM, DVD discs, and BIOS chips.


Do you know what else is solid state? Mechanic hard drives, Books, and carved stone tablets. I don't know how to make it more clear to you than I already have; The term "SSD" in the PC industry refers to a specific type of NAND+controller arrangement - Bootable USB memory sticks, eMMC Chromebook drives, and Optane drives _aren't_ included. I have already listed several other "solid state" storage mediums but despite being _solid state drives, _they are not classed as such and go out of their way to make the distinction that they are _not_ SSDs.

If you don't like those rules, then argue with the manufacturers, not me. Intel themselves go out of their way to say that 3D Xpoint is not NAND, and Optane is not an SSD


mtrantalainen said:


> If you really believe that "people" cannot see difference between 5x faster drive then I guess any SSD will do for those people and benchmarking any SSD drives is wasted effort. I can definitely see difference between 905P and e.g. Samsung 980 but I know where the difference really shows. On the other hand, I also know how much more expensive 905P is so I don't get it for every system.


This depends on your definition of "people". If by "people" you mean people like me who are enterprise datacenter architects spinning up dozens of database VMs per host with 50K IOPS needed per host with overheads, then yes - Optane has a place. That is, in fact, what Optane was designed for and it does a fantastic job.

If by "people" you mean your average consumer, like me at home with a single-socket CPU on a consumer motherboard just trying to do consumer things like game, encode, compile, and piss about with benchmarking software, then Optane is completely pointless outside of pissing about with benchmarking software. What exactly are you doing that can justify a $2500 purchase on a refurbished, discontinued product that Intel abandoned in the consumer market because it was so utterly pointless?

Intel cancelled Optane, the consumer version of it's 3D Xpoint storage, because there was no viable consumer market for it.
You cannot buy it (new) any more, it has limited purpose outside of extremely niche applications, and even when you could buy it as a consumer it was frighteningly expensive for marginal gains.
If I had to guess, these are the reasons why TechPowerUp doesn't compare consumer SSDs to Optane any more.


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## ryderstorm (Dec 28, 2021)

WD Black SN850 1 TB SSD Review - The Fastest SSD
					

The WD Black SN850 is the fastest SSD we ever tested thanks to support for the fast PCI-Express 4.0 interface. In our extensive real-life testing it beats the Samsung 980 Pro, the Phison E18-based Corsair MP600 Pro, and even the MLC-based Samsung 970 Pro.




					www.techpowerup.com
				




On that page of the review, it says:


> Due to the compact form factor, M.2 drives lack the ability to cool themselves and usually have to rely on passive airflow instead. All vendors include some form of thermal throttling on their drives as a safeguard, which limits throughput once a certain temperature is exceeded.
> 
> On this page, we will investigate whether the tested drive has such a mechanism


But the page never states any conclusion of the investigation. Looking at the charts, the transfer rates never dropped, even when the drive was running at 85C. The data in doesn't indicate any thermal throttling happened, but also indicates that the drive never reached a point where throttling would kick in.

Anybody have any clarification on if this drive has thermal throttling? The official datasheet isn't clear:


			https://documents.westerndigital.com/content/dam/doc-library/en_us/assets/public/western-digital/product/internal-drives/wd-black-ssd/data-sheet-wd-black-sn850-nvme-ssd.pdf


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## W1zzard (Dec 28, 2021)

ryderstorm said:


> But the page never states any conclusion of the investigation. Looking at the charts, the transfer rates never dropped, even when the drive was running at 85C. The data in doesn't indicate any thermal throttling happened, but also indicates that the drive never reached a point where throttling would kick in.
> 
> Anybody have any clarification on if this drive has thermal throttling?


In our testing the drive never throttled, and we're testing pretty much worst case. I'm sure if does have the thermal throttling capability if it gets too hot (it won't just die).


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## R-T-B (Jan 5, 2022)

Chrispy_ said:


> Do you know what else is solid state? Mechanic hard drives


No.  Technically, since the pedantic ship sailed long ago, solid state simply means "no moving parts."  HDDs do not qualify.


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## Chrispy_ (Jan 5, 2022)

R-T-B said:


> No.  Technically, since the pedantic ship sailed long ago, solid state simply means "no moving parts."  HDDs do not qualify.


I'm sorry to say that the U.S.S. Pedantic sank into the ocean almost three months ago, no reported survivors.


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## R-T-B (Jan 5, 2022)

Chrispy_ said:


> I'm sorry to say that the U.S.S. Pedantic sank into the ocean almost three months ago, no reported survivors.


So it did indeed sail?

Ah, I necro-quote'd.  Sorry.


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## Chrispy_ (Jan 5, 2022)

R-T-B said:


> So it did indeed sail?


Indeed she did sail! 

Out of context I think the mechanical hard disk platters can be considered solid state in the same way that a vinyl record is solid state. Alas it doesn't really matter as the point I was making is that neither of them are an SSD as defined by the PC industry. Sometimes analogies backfire.


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## Yearofthegoat (Feb 3, 2022)

Am looking for a new nvme and the SN850 is the cheapest vs 980 Pro, Firecuda 530 and MP600. The SN850 reportedly runs hotter than those by maybe 2x (e.g. vs the 530). Not really a problem if it doesn't throttle, I guess.

I was just wondering which M2 slot was used in testing, and whether the motherboard heatsink was on or not?

I have an MSI Tomahawk X570 board that has heatsinks for its two M2 slots, hence the question. Thanks


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## W1zzard (Feb 3, 2022)

Yearofthegoat said:


> I was just wondering which M2 slot was used in testing, and whether the motherboard heatsink was on or not?


I always use the slot closest to the CPU (above the VGA card). No motherboard heasink, just the bare drive like you see it in thermal camera photo



Yearofthegoat said:


> SN850 is the cheapest vs


Buy the SN850


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## Yearofthegoat (Feb 3, 2022)

Thanks, that clears things up. £124 (~$170) for 1TB at Amazon right now.


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## Yearofthegoat (Feb 15, 2022)

Well, I got one, it arrived yesterday and it's quick, that's for sure. But it's also quite hot - runs ca. 70C during a CrystalDiskMark test. This is with the stock heatsink on my motherboard (MSI Tomahawk x570).

Will keep an eye on it, temp wise. Haven't seen any throttling, but does anyone know at what temp that kicks in? The WD Dashboard reports that the drive overheats. Might have to return it.

Thanks

Update: The drive just quit transferring a disk image file, as it overheated. This is with the heatsink on (v hot to the touch) and the side of the case still off.

Returned to Amazon, and FireCuda 530 ordered instead.


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## W1zzard (Feb 15, 2022)

Yearofthegoat said:


> runs ca. 70C during a CrystalDiskMark test


that's not hot



Yearofthegoat said:


> does anyone know at what temp that kicks in











						WD Black SN850 1 TB SSD Review - The Fastest SSD
					

The WD Black SN850 is the fastest SSD we ever tested thanks to support for the fast PCI-Express 4.0 interface. In our extensive real-life testing it beats the Samsung 980 Pro, the Phison E18-based Corsair MP600 Pro, and even the MLC-based Samsung 970 Pro.




					www.techpowerup.com
				



I couldn't get it to throttle, even at over 80°C



Yearofthegoat said:


> The drive just quit transferring a disk image file, as it overheated


that's not how thermal protection should work. the drive should just slow down


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## Yearofthegoat (Feb 15, 2022)

By quit, I meant slowed right down to a crawl such that the transfer would take hours. I didn't buy a Gen4 SSD to have it run like a snail in normal use, hence why I'm returning it.

No big deal, I knew it was going to be hot before I bought it. At least I tried it rather than dismissing it out of hand. If it had worked, I'd have saved £25. But it didn't.


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## W1zzard (Feb 16, 2022)

Yearofthegoat said:


> By quit, I meant slowed right down to a crawl such that the transfer would take hours. I didn't buy a Gen4 SSD to have it run like a snail in normal use, hence why I'm returning it.


Interesting, how's the airflow in your case? Considering that you've got the mobo cooler installed I would have expected no throttling at all, especially since I saw no throttling in my review either


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## Yearofthegoat (Feb 16, 2022)

W1zzard said:


> Interesting, how's the airflow in your case? Considering that you've got the mobo cooler installed I would have expected no throttling at all, especially since I saw no throttling in my review either


Airflow is fine, at least fine enough for the other components anyway (Ryzen 5 3600, RX580). Noctua D15 (IIRC), four case fans, front to back airflow. One of them blows more or less directly at the GPU/M2 area.

As mentioned above, the heatsink was on, and the side of the case was off. The SN850 still hit 81C, according to the WD Dashboard. I haven't installed any cooling specifically for the SN850.

Since this is a main desktop used for work/DAW/Photoshop/video transcoding occasionally, it needs to be capable but quiet in normal use. The SN850 I received is no good for this use case, as it's just too hot without either fitting extra, specific cooling, or making the whole rig too noisy to use as intended.

The FireCuda arrived just this morning, so it'll be interesting to see how that performs in the same situation.


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## Yearofthegoat (Feb 25, 2022)

Just by way of an update, the FireCuda 530 stays at a much lower 46C when doing a 200+GB write (a Macrium image file, from a WD SN750, same as I tried with the SN850). Performance wise, it's very similar so altogether a better-suited drive for my purposes than the very hot SN850.


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## amd64skater (Aug 29, 2022)

My benchmark with current setup. With the SN850 1TB


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