# DirectX10 Coming for everyone, with the help of the 'Alky Project'



## zekrahminator (Apr 22, 2007)

We all know that DirectX10, for many of us, means an expensive upgrade and the move to a new operating system. We also know that DirectX10 is going to be necessary to play DX10 games such as Crysis and Halo 2 for the PC. What if I told you that a project sought to change that? That you could run DirectX10-exclusive games such as Halo 2 for PC on a DirectX9 platform with Windows 2000? Thanks to the Alky Project, we may not have to spend a penny to enjoy DirectX10 goodness. A quote from their official blog (I know, it's not an official web-page, but they do link to working models) tells us exactly how we can make DirectX10 work without spending at least $270 on a DirectX10 upgrade ($170 NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT, $100 Windows Vista Home Basic). 



> I'm proud to release a preview of our DirectX 10 compatibility libraries. These libraries allow the use of DirectX 10 games on platforms other than Microsoft Vista, and increase hardware compatibility even on Vista, by compiling Geometry Shaders down to native machine code for execution where hardware isn't capable of running it. No longer will you have to upgrade your OS and video card(s) to play the latest games.



The preview/beta build is here. Make sure to read the README file, as it will tell you exactly how to install the project.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## DrunkenMafia (Apr 22, 2007)

Sounds nice, but I thought that you could still play dx10 games on dx9 just without all the eye candy???  Maybe I was wrong..


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## Fusion (Apr 22, 2007)

i bet m$ will try to block it somehow, i can see them loosing huge revenue if that does indeed happen.


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## Deleted member 3 (Apr 22, 2007)

Fusion said:


> i bet m$ will try to block it somehow, i can see them loosing huge revenue if that does indeed happen.



I doubt it, they aren't blocking(or trying to) WINE either are they?


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## Deleted member 3 (Apr 22, 2007)

Just tried it, tried it with the Cascades demo, doesn't work yet. Though the readme doesn't say any demos/programs work yet. I hope they get such demos and games working soon.


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## b1lk1 (Apr 22, 2007)

Of course all games will come encoded in DX9 for many years.  Game designers, not MS, are the ones that will do this because they would lose untold millions of dollars if they didn't.  Valve has said they plan on supporting DX8 for a few more years.  DX10 is overhyped and you either have to spend too much on the 8800 series cards or you have to spend too much on lousy underpowered 8600 series cards.


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## Mussels (Apr 22, 2007)

This will most likely end up the same as the pixel shader emulator in some openGL drivers - it works, only very slowly.

Also, Halo2 IS NOT DX10.


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## jocksteeluk (Apr 22, 2007)

Alky Project, two thumbs up, these are the kind of thing people should be doing rather than  being a buch of dick make viruses, even if it doesn't work 100% perfect at least it show Microsoft could allow dx10 on os's other than Vista but chose not to.


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## Jimmy 2004 (Apr 22, 2007)

I'm not surprised that it's being moved to other OSes, I always thought it would be - but I don't  get how they can 'improve hardware support' - perhaps DX10 emulation, but I wouldn't expect good performance from that.


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## EastCoasthandle (Apr 22, 2007)

I think the point being made is simple, DX10 should have been made available on XP.  The nay sayers stated that it was impossible.  That it would take a re-write of XP API and HAL to get DX10 to work.  Hopefully, sometime in the near future it will be proven that DX10 will in fact work in XP and, all the nay sayers who said other wise was only posting FUD!


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## Rodster (Apr 22, 2007)

If dx10 is ever made available for Windows XP, that will spell the end for Vista. As it stands right now very few want that bloatware in the first place. Most PC users have had the feeling that Vista was forced on us by Microsoft just to increase it's revenue and bring in some cash. It's no different than Sony forcing it's Blu-Ray player on PS3 owners.

So take that Microsoft if dx10 makes it to XP.


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## Chewy (Apr 22, 2007)

I tried out vista with my dads laptop and I like it once I removed the bloatware.. but yeah they should of made dx10 compatible with XP.. it wont look good on them if it was this easy implement dx10 on XP, noone likes to get "forced" to stuff when its not really needed.


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## RickyG512 (Apr 22, 2007)

im a little confused, i understand u can play DX 10 games on XP without the DX10 card and vista, but do you still get the DX10 image features and eye candy


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## Chewy (Apr 22, 2007)

From what I read your not seposed to be able to, but people are trying to get it to work, hopefully with 100% success.

edit: actually I was thinking of playing with dx10 enabled on XP.. yeah Im sure dx10 games will be able to be played on dx9cards in xp otherwise they game producers would lose a ton of money.


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## BXtreme (Apr 22, 2007)

It's a really cool attempt  But, it's emulated  i.e not really made for it...
if M$ would give dx10 someway for xp by itself...


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## Jimmy 2004 (Apr 22, 2007)

RickyG512 said:


> im a little confused, i understand u can play DX 10 games on XP without the DX10 card and vista, but do you still get the DX10 image features and eye candy



Halo 2 will be Vista only - even though I don't think it's DX10. I mean come on, if it works on the original Xbox it could easily be made to work on XP as well as Vista.


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## BXtreme (Apr 22, 2007)

Looks like there's a need for the creation of a New app called compatup, for upwards compatibility


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## erocker (Apr 22, 2007)

I just think back on the Windows 98 to XP transition, and all I have to say is that most of us will be using Vista anyways once 3rd parties stop making the drivers.  Just wait until the non-beta version of Windows Vista comes out which will also be known as SP1. (that is sarcasm folks)  I use Vista on my other system (don't use it much) and it's still got plenty of bugs for those not using the latest and greatest hardware.  And even they have problems.  Plus it's a complete memory hog, good luck running any high-end applications with 1gb of memory.  I would use   4gb minimum on vista.  Or if you are not into dual-channel the minimum would be 2.5gb.


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## Firedomain (Apr 22, 2007)

Jimmy 2004 said:


> Halo 2 will be Vista only - even though I don't think it's DX10. I mean come on, if it works on the original Xbox it could easily be made to work on XP as well as Vista.



exept for the fact that they revamped HALO 2 for the PC...


& as for erocker... i'd have 2 fully agree there... vista atm SUCKS for running games... hows a game ment 2 reach great graphics & speed when vista hogs all the resources!!!!!!!


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## ktr (Apr 22, 2007)

Mussels said:


> Also, Halo2 IS NOT DX10.



that is what i am saying...lol.


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## Rodster (Apr 22, 2007)

erocker said:


> I just think back on the Windows 98 to XP transition, and all I have to say is that most of us will be using Vista anyways once 3rd parties stop making the drivers.  Just wait until the non-beta version of Windows Vista comes out which will also be known as SP1. (that is sarcasm folks)  I use Vista on my other system (don't use it much) and it's still got plenty of bugs for those not using the latest and greatest hardware.  And even they have problems.  Plus it's a complete memory hog, good luck running any high-end applications with 1gb of memory.  I would use   4gb minimum on vista.  Or if you are not into dual-channel the minimum would be 2.5gb.



That's the reason why soooooo many are pissed at Vista. In order to get it to run like XP you have to use 4X the memory, buy a new CPU, video card and you might as well throw in a sound card because Creative Labs still has trouble releasing stable Vista drivers.

The day i'm forced to use this bloatware/shit operating system to play games is the day I switch exclusively to consoles. It's almost as if Windows Vista is bad joke by Microsoft.


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## mtosev (Apr 22, 2007)

Not bad but Im already running Vista


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## WarEagleAU (Apr 22, 2007)

Well at least its a start to help those of us who cant get a dx10 card and vista. btw, what is WINE?


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## selway89 (Apr 22, 2007)

Vista seems fine to me, just make sure you turn the stuff you dont need off.

I can run CS:Source with no problems everything maxed out. Cant speak for all games, but its a hell of alot better than the Beta2 and RC1, they didnt have opengl or video acceleration (anything like dvds and hd videos didnt run properly).


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## Conti027 (Apr 22, 2007)

well you guys have fun with that program ill stick with the right.


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## wazzledoozle (Apr 22, 2007)

No point in emulating DX10 when you can just run the games in DX9 mode under xp.


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## SK-1 (Apr 22, 2007)

wazzledoozle said:


> No point in emulating DX10 when you can just run the games in DX9 mode under xp.



Except for the new dx10 eye-candy,right?


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## RickyG512 (Apr 22, 2007)

im also confused, do we still get the dx10 eye candy ass


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## wazzledoozle (Apr 22, 2007)

Crysis already emulates the eye candy under DX9, just without hardware acceleration.


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## theonetruewill (Apr 22, 2007)

Jimmy 2004 said:


> Halo 2 will be Vista only - even though I don't think it's DX10. I mean come on, if it works on the original Xbox it could easily be made to work on XP as well as Vista.



It must be able to, I thought the hardware inside an old Xbox was DX8


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## wazzledoozle (Apr 22, 2007)

theonetruewill said:


> It must be able to, I thought the hardware inside an old Xbox was DX8



Yep, geforce 3. Ridiculous that they are making it Vista-only.


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## Wile E (Apr 22, 2007)

Your welcome, Zek.


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## GSG-9 (Apr 22, 2007)

SK-1 said:


> Except for the new dx10 eye-candy,right?



There is no way this is going to get decent frame rates if its emulating in a traditional way, Its not like emulating a GBA on a FX-55 Based computer, its like emulating a Xbox360 on an Xbox, there has to be something more to it. 

As for Halo 2 for PC is it even the same engine as the one they used on the xbox?


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## SkylinGTR26 (Apr 22, 2007)

this app is going to be for making all of that eye candy in DX10 come to XP. They are simplifing the code in dx10 (the geometry shaders) for a DX9 videocard to be able to do it. Still this is gonna be lame either way. Because the main point of DX10 and the DX10 videocards is that they have unified shaders. 

IMO this is really lame, just get a freakin DX10 videocard, or play the game with DX9. Thats the best way to do it.
BTW, i agree, vista is in a very beta state right now. Can't wait for SP1 tho. Oh and BTW 1gb does suck in vista . But 2gb has to be the minimum.


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## hotrippr (Apr 23, 2007)

dx10 should have been made for XP, I think it was a bad move PR wise for MS to say Vista only, now everyone hates them even more.  I have had Vista on Dualboot with XP since released.  And I will say that Vista runs great but you have to disable a bunch of unneeded services, same for XP I disabled a bunch of services on xp just not as many.  Once you unbloat it it is good, but DRM is a pain in the a$$ M$ tries to enforce their DRM in Vista but so far I have found a way around it all(except FRAPS), but still more of a headache than XP.  Driver support is not there yet, almost though.  Games in vista, not a problem, I know they are slower but I cant tell with my naked eyes.  I would wait on Vista, maybe it will be better later but I am sticking to it because I like the hardway in life.  I do have to say though that Vista will teach how to workaround things and become a pirate haha... DRM=Pirates School.


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## mandelore (Apr 23, 2007)

hmm, i recon peeps should just deal with shit, n stop bashing vista, i run a dual boot xp/vista ultimate and use vista for gaming, i can run all my games dx/opengl fine, only i fuxed summit up and can only install gfx driver no ccc, my bad, but hell, they work A ok. I cant complain on performance, and as for resources, my vista uses same as xp, about 20-25% ram usage on 2gb ram. 

Tho one gripe is the defrag, i hate it, i dont get to see any progress, which sux.

and im waiting for a fix for x-fi fatality sound card, doesnt give full 5.1 surround for some reason, with back speakers being processed thru fron speakers as well, hmm, im sure when creative stops sucking dong they will get it fixed


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## hotrippr (Apr 23, 2007)

People have more than enough reasons to bash Vista...it deserves it.  I never would pay full price for the bloatware, but it is worth the student price.  For the average person it is a nightmare, sure many of us know how to speed it up and unbloat but many people do not want to take the time to learn how to do this, and many of the average are scared they will ruin their pc.  Still to early to tell if Vista will live or be another ME.  DELL is said to be going back to offering XP, so this will be a big problem for M$.  It is like admitting that Vista sucks.

Honestly they shouldnt have changed anything but the Aero, dx10, and windows switch feature then just called it windows Aero.  

I agree that the defrag sucks but there are alternatives that are free if you search for them.


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## devguy (Apr 23, 2007)

Yeah, Halo2 on Vista is going to have no DirectX10 support.  It is simply a ploy by Microsoft to get people to move to Vista.  If you ask me, Halo2 isn't enough to warrant an upgrade to Vista for gamers alone.  Don't get me wrong, I've loved Halo2 since Nov 9, 2004 and still play it at least weekly, but this is just silly.  I also doubt Microsoft is going to have an x64 version of this game and OpenAl is also unlikely so us Creative users are out for hardware sound.

The people who spent all these years porting the game are going to be very upset with initial sales of this game.  Maybe once everyone who received the Vista upgrade coupon from Dell/Hp/etc uses that and then wants to buy Vista games, maybe some income will come their way, but until then, they are gonna be sorry by Microsoft's decision.

I don't know why you all are saying 2GB is the minimum for Vista.  I've run Vista on my laptop and it ran great with 768mb DDR333 so-dimm (Home Basic, though).  My PC in my specs runs Vista x64 Ultimate fine albeit the 1GB Vista accelerator from Corsair helps a bit.  In fact, it seems to help the most in reducing the unusable computer time directly after playing a game by about half.

Anyone think people will be able to hack Halo2 to run on XP?  We need a drop down menu when you right click a program in XP that says "Run this program in compatibility mode for Windows Vista."


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## Wile E (Apr 23, 2007)

Put 2GB in your gaming rig, and you'll see a definite difference in gaming on Vista.


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## Mussels (Apr 23, 2007)

firedomain said:


> exept for the fact that they revamped HALO 2 for the PC...
> 
> 
> & as for erocker... i'd have 2 fully agree there... vista atm SUCKS for running games... hows a game ment 2 reach great graphics & speed when vista hogs all the resources!!!!!!!




Stalker - over 100FPS gain (dodgy XP drivers)
Company of heroes  ~5FPS min gain, 40FPS max
Supreme commander ~30FPS gain, ability to run 8x AA instead of 4x

I get quite nice gains with my system in vista - NOT losses.

My other system runs 1GB of ram, and has no problems - I'm just not dumb enough to try it with Aero or the glass effects. Using a 2GB OCZ rally flash drive with readyboost makes this system run just as peachy as my main rig.

Halo2 was vista only, for the lame excuse of network code. I don't see why, but they chose to use vista only features because it was easier/faster.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Apr 23, 2007)

Linux + dx10... is it possible?


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## Mussels (Apr 23, 2007)

about as possible as DX10 in XP or windows 2000...


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## SiCk (Apr 23, 2007)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> Linux + dx10... is it possible?



Maybe. Some DX9 libraries are usable with Wine or Cedega, only with SM2.0 support (I think that SM3.0 is not yet made) so DX10 runtimes maybe anytime will be ported. I don't know how they make it, but I suppose that the reconstruction of DX api are more logical with DX10, so I hope that it will make more easy the port. But I suppose that they have problems, if not, why not dx9 are totally ported (including sm3.0 shaders and 100% of funcionality)?.
The problem is that now 9.0 with wine or cedega is "cutted". Nobody can say you that a new game will run or if it runs correctly. It some project gets a full port for DX is the end for windows xp and vista, at least in my pc's.
I also "suspect" that when MS says that dx10 only can run with vista because how the OS is made (with many uses in all parts of OS) is a lie for don't use it on dx9...

Ah, and for people that says that wine or similar apps will run slower because it is emulating, are wrong. Wine uses libraries directly, not emulate it. Same for cedega and similar.
In fact, some benchmarks shows that games runs very well (better in some cases) in linux with dx9 support than in native windows.


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## Mussels (Apr 23, 2007)

The real reason DX10 wont work in XP is because it has no 2D component (directdraw) - obviously this is an issue for an OS without a 3D shell.

A linux with a pure 3D OS (openGL?) should be able to do a D3D10 component, just like vista can run openGL.


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## mandelore (Apr 23, 2007)

Mussels said:


> Stalker - over 100FPS gain (dodgy XP drivers)
> Company of heroes  ~5FPS min gain, 40FPS max
> Supreme commander ~30FPS gain, ability to run 8x AA instead of 4x
> 
> I get quite nice gains with my system in vista - NOT losses.




yeah, i run ALL my games at 1920x1200 and all are quite playable, lol, i decided to play halflife 2 again for shits n giggles n often get 200-300fps  damn thats nice, with AA and anisiotrphic on, well considering the last time i played was on an x800 card

oh, and for the record, my vista ultimate was purchased as OEM for barely over £110


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## SPHERE (Apr 23, 2007)

disgustingly awesome!!!


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## zekrahminator (Apr 23, 2007)

Yeah, I use Vista on my dad's laptop, and I like it . 

My motto for Windows Vista: Don't love it till you try it, don't hate it if you haven't. I'll move over to Windows Vista once I have more money.


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## Slater (Apr 23, 2007)

i can already use dx10 on xp =)


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## Jimmy 2004 (Apr 23, 2007)

Slater said:


> i can already use dx10 on xp =)



Care to explain how?


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## HellasVagabond (Apr 23, 2007)

I dont really trust this beta attempt to use DX10 on windows Xp but now perhaps MS will have to think about also releasing it for Windows XP since we know it can happen.


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## RickyG512 (Apr 23, 2007)

Slater said:


> i can already use dx10 on xp =)



what you talking bout willis


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## Mussels (Apr 24, 2007)

RickyG512 said:


> what you talking bout willis



Considering he has a DX9 video card (x850) i'd say he's just full of crap.


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## SpoonMuffin (Apr 24, 2007)

SkylinGTR26 said:


> .... Because the main point of DX10 and the DX10 videocards is that they have unified shaders.
> 
> IMO this is really lame, just get a freakin DX10 videocard, or play the game with DX9. Thats the best way to do it.
> BTW, i agree, vista is in a very beta state right now. Can't wait for SP1 tho. Oh and BTW 1gb does suck in vista . But 2gb has to be the minimum.



ok first, dx10 dosnt requier unified shaders, read the specs yourself, its reccomended but no current card really uses it, the 8800 isnt unified, its a shitload of pipes and shader units, they wont give you the info on real specs but hell, what do you expect.

and dx10 class fetures should be 98% compatable with x1k cards due to how programable they are, older cards.....well no, but the code could be recompiled to run better on x800 range cards with more fetures then normal dx9 mode gives.


by the time vista is mature, the next version of windows will be out and ready for use, i wouldnt pay for vista period, its just not worth it.

dx10 could be made by ms to  support 2k and up, it would just be a matter of ms accepting that people dont want vista and want dx10 for xp, hell i know ppl who would PAY for that addon!!!!!

but ms wants to push vista on EVERYBODY, i hear ms is PISSED that dell is offering xp again, cant blame them its "old news" and they got this new thing called vista they want to try and convence everybody is "better in every way on all hardware" when really its just bloated betaware shit, i have installed and tested vista on 6 systems, its NEVER been faster then 2000 or 2003, duno about xp, i gave up on xp long ago, to many problems for me(hotfixes/critical hotfixes/critical security updates that break shit.....piss me off)  

i would like to see MS do something smart and put out a new vista like os thats more like 2003 server, vs xp, cut down, clean, fast, stable, none of the problems or bloat that the desktop versions force you to deal with......

and this isnt pure dx10 software emulation, its not using software to emulate missing fetures, its converting the code to run using current videocards.

i hope they can manage this, allow people with high end ati hardware at least play dx10 games on their curent hardware with their current windows


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## wazzledoozle (Apr 24, 2007)

SpoonMuffin said:


> ok first, dx10 dosnt requier unified shaders, read the specs yourself, its reccomended but no current card really uses it, the *8800 isnt unified, its a shitload of pipes and shader units*, they wont give you the info on real specs but hell, what do you expect.
> 
> and dx10 class fetures should be 98% compatable with x1k cards due to how programable they are, older cards.....well no, but the code could be recompiled to run better on x800 range cards with more fetures then normal dx9 mode gives.
> 
> ...



Wrong . Stop spreading BS dude-
http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2006q4/geforce-8800/index.x?pg=1

The G80 IS a unified shader architecture, just as the R600 will be. (and the R500/Xenos in the 360 is)


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## Mussels (Apr 24, 2007)

I'm quite surprised what some people will say...

DX10 and D3D10 are still two seperate things. DX10 has no Directdraw, so it definately CANNOT work on a 2D operating system. IF, if, MS decide to port Direct3D10 over to XP, this part is possible - but what of the apps that want to use the other features, like vistas new audio stack, improved networking code and so on? They cant just throw those into XP, it'd break everything that currently works there.

Thats why MS is doing it all-or-nothing, but it IS possible for say, a linux with a 3D GUI to 'emulate' all these things just line WINE can emulate DX9 (however imperfectly)


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## SpoonMuffin (Apr 24, 2007)

hate to tell u this mussels, but d3d10 can run on a "2d" windows, vista's so called 3d gui is dx9 based, not dx10, and when you dissable areo guess what, the gui is 2d, it has to be to run on many of the intagrated video cards used, intels onboard video is a great example, you CANT run a full 3d gui with onboard video thats 8-16mb and that lacks dx9 fetures(hell they barly support dx8 if they are intel)  i have vista on a dell p3 630 here thats got onboard video, and it runs vista, where the gui pure 3d then it wouldnt run because the onboard video is locked at 4-8-16mb max, i set it at 8 because, really 1024x768 dosnt need more then 8mb.

and waz, i cant reammber where but i sware nvidia said or at least implyed that the 8800(g80) wasnt true unified because ITS NOT NEEDED TO SUPPORT DX10.

all you need to get a dx10 sticker is sm4.0 support, nothing more, unified is prefered but not requiered.

again if you dont belive me READ THE SPECS!!!!! they are publicly avalable u know.

one comment on the 8800 design, i alwase find it funny that nvidia went with an external chip for analog/hdtv signals, because really according to vista/hollywood requierments that shouldnt be allowed because somebody could possably hardware hack and get access to a HD signal bypassing HDCP, a big part of why card costs are going back up, all this stupid useless DRM crap that is already made 100% useless by anydvdHD and the like........screw ms and screw hollywood.


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## Mussels (Apr 24, 2007)

It is in fact rendered in 3D, even if it LOOKS basic. I never said it was DX10, that is ridiculous - it would only work on 8800's. DX9? yes, it does run DX9.0L at a minimum - as for your onboard video claims, it is quite possible to run vista on 16MB of video memory, as long as it supports PS2.0 - any less and the OS wouldnt install, let alone boot.
Any 3D system thats dissasembled will become 2D at its base point, an OS obviously because  VDU systems currently used are 2D. We arent using holographic displays, so of course MS would have used a 2D display and worked it into their 3D engine.

Do not invent things i have not said, or make up facts you know nothing about.
DX10 is an SM4.0 sticker? Actually, i think you mean Direct3D10, DX10 is an entire package, and NOT just the video component.


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## SpoonMuffin (Apr 24, 2007)

oh really mussels, funny, i have vista installed on a system with a gf2gts, didnt know they could run ps2/dx9, wow, anybody want to buy a gf2gts dx9 card?



> Windows Vista Starter
> Minimum supported requirements
> 
> Certain product features are not available with minimum supported requirements
> ...


Link


vista starter just dosnt have areo, but that dosnt make sence because, well vista is a 3d os according to you.........then again, your effectivly saying my gf2gts is a dx9 card as well.......

guess your right, vista is 100% pure dx9 3d, no 2d at all......


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## GSG-9 (Apr 24, 2007)

DX10 is an SM4.0 sticker? Actually, i think you mean Direct3D10, DX10 is an entire package, and NOT just the video component.

I think what he meant was to have a card DX10 Certified all you need to do is be SM4.0 compliant, Your card does not have to have unified shaders although that is a big push as we all know it will be more efficient.


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## mandelore (Apr 24, 2007)

wazzledoozle said:


> Wrong . Stop spreading BS dude-
> http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2006q4/geforce-8800/index.x?pg=1
> 
> The G80 IS a unified shader architecture, just as the R600 will be. (and the R500/Xenos in the 360 is)



lol, had a read of that article, wow that core is huge, I quote:

"but we can surmise that the G80 has the approximate surface area of Rosie O'Donnell


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## Mussels (Apr 25, 2007)

Its quite a bitch to get thermal paste on such a large core, too.


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## wazzledoozle (Apr 25, 2007)

Thats actually not the core, its a heat spreader like you would find on an Athlon 64 or P4/Core 2.

http://sg.vr-zone.com/?i=4352


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## ktr (Apr 25, 2007)

wazzledoozle said:


> Thats actually not the core, its a heat spreader like you would find on an Athlon 64 or P4/Core 2.
> 
> http://sg.vr-zone.com/?i=4352



wow, i wonder if that is covered under warranty


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## SpoonMuffin (Apr 25, 2007)

like how nobody responded to my proof that vista dosnt need dx9 to run, and isnt 100% 3d gui.....rofl.....figuars, get pwned, ignore the situation.....

and anybody stupid enought to pry the heatspreder off a card they payed that kinda $ for has to much $ for their own good, or shouldnt have a computer to start with, stupid people suck.


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## hotrippr (Apr 25, 2007)

SpoonMuffin said:


> and anybody stupid enought to pry the heatspreder off a card they payed that kinda $ for has to much $ for their own good, or shouldnt have a computer to start with, stupid people suck.



No... IHS suck!  The only thing I want between my crystal and block is ceramique.


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## mandelore (Apr 25, 2007)

hotrippr said:


> No... IHS suck!  The only thing I want between my crystal and block is ceramique.



haha, especially when you pay so much for the card and then they use crud as the thermal paste under the ihs  

I like my x1900xtx with all that naked silicone


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## Mussels (Apr 25, 2007)

SpoonMuffin said:


> like how nobody responded to my proof that vista dosnt need dx9 to run, and isnt 100% 3d gui.....rofl.....figuars, get pwned, ignore the situation.....
> 
> and anybody stupid enought to pry the heatspreder off a card they payed that kinda $ for has to much $ for their own good, or shouldnt have a computer to start with, stupid people suck.




you posted no proof - of anything.

Oh and if you really must know, they had a dead review card they pried the IHS off - no wasted money.


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## BXtreme (Apr 25, 2007)

LOL I really spent the time reading the BS spoon gave 
Get proper info 1st, then shout all you want  We're all not stupid you know...
Well your response wasn't that bad spoonmuffin, as ppl are really angry with the NO DX10 on XP thing, it's totally obvious for any1 to get angry and say the 'future' thing is SHIT! cuz ppl have to buy all new gpu's again  I'm with you on this part.

But...
8800 IS unified shader architecture, so keep quiet about this line 
Also, DX10 i.e D3D10 allows the use of more shaders for game makers to use, and to utilise that u need a DX10 compatible gpu, THAT you don't have ATM as I see in your specs...
But not to worry, cuz no dx10 games are near for some time 
Uber Dx9 cards WILL run DX10 games but with SM3 it'll look worse than of SM4...

@ the Vista GUI part,
Aero or the GUI of Vista is the complete desktop, i.e anything u see on the desktop is drawn in 3D BUT isn't dx10, lol @ how could any1 think that! 
It's Dx9, due to the fact that microsoft has said a dx9 card is required atleast as min requirement of Vista.

*ALSO*, AERO IS 100% 3d GUI. The process called dwm.exe controls/manages the aero.
IF you disable Aero, the dwm.exe pulls out the curtain and reveals a non-3d gui which is sorta like 98. But it's NOT aero and isn't 3d accelerated.

SO, only the AERO (the main gui of vista) is 3d accelerated, BUT NOT the all GUI's of of vista. SO, Vista doesn't need a dx9 card to RUN, but just to show the Aero UI properly

An onboard video card has also been heard to run aero, but with some modification and forced execution.


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## Grings (Apr 25, 2007)

i wish 8800's werent unified shaders (they are), considering a 7900gtx has 24pixel shaders, the 96 in my 8800 would be ridiculously powerful


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## SpoonMuffin (Apr 25, 2007)

SpoonMuffin said:


> oh really mussels, funny, i have vista installed on a system with a gf2gts, didnt know they could run ps2/dx9, wow, anybody want to buy a gf2gts dx9 card?
> 
> 
> > Windows Vista Starter
> ...



bullshit if thats not proof that vista dosnt requier dx9 to run.

and as stated by BX, not areo uses 3d fetures of cards, never said it didnt, but with areo dissabled guess what u get WINDOWS EXPLORER!!!!! same old 2d enterface you get with xp, just diffrent themes.

and quote is DIRRECTLY FROM MICROSOFT!!!!!!

the dx9 support is only needed to run areo, not vista itself, but hey if you want to buy a gf2gts that runs dx9 let me know, i have one(if it runs vista then it must be dx9 afterall)

hell my buddys tested vista on 2 server boxes he has when he upgraded the hdd's, they have rage pro class onboard video(8mb) guess what, IT RUNS FINE(opteron systems with tyan boards) 
infact its the rage XL
http://www.tyan.com/product_board_detail.aspx?pid=109

the onboard video used
http://ati.amd.com/products/server/ragexl/features.html

this is a VERY basick chip, not even rage128 class, its effectivly a rage2 pro with 8mb vram, but under Mussels version of reality i guess its dx9 to.........


check the link this time Mussels ms specs are quoted above for you, vista starter(vista without areo) runs on ANY videocard capable of 800x600 or better resolutions, you can admit your wrong about vista being 100% 3d any time.

areo=3d over old standby 2d windows gui.


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## BXtreme (Apr 27, 2007)

SpoonMuffin said:


> bullshit if thats not proof that vista dosnt requier dx9 to run.
> 
> and as stated by BX, not areo uses 3d fetures of cards, never said it didnt, but with areo dissabled guess what u get WINDOWS EXPLORER!!!!! same old 2d enterface you get with xp, just diffrent themes.
> 
> ...



your whole posts are burning, chill out first!  
OK, 1st of all Vista starter is NOT an OS for even basic use, it's just for testing how will Vista look like  So, it isn't even Vista's 10%


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## zekrahminator (Apr 27, 2007)

Everyone take a chill pill, and drop the argument, or else you get to lick my long, hard, sweaty banstick.


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## SpoonMuffin (Apr 27, 2007)

wrong bx, its just vista without areo and with limmited other fetures, the same core, they just removed fetures, ms wouldnt spend all that $ to make a totaly diffrent version of vista just to sell it cheap.

and starter just looks like normal vista in 2d mode insted of areo mode.


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## zekrahminator (Apr 27, 2007)

Now, what did I just say?


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## Ketxxx (Apr 27, 2007)

lol not only do I find this funny because I said DX10 would come to XP and nobody listened, people also didnt belive software emulation could be efficient enough. Now to top it all off, if this isnt software emulated, this DX10 project has probably been made possible with microsofts very own .NET framework


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## Ketxxx (Apr 27, 2007)

Rodster said:


> That's the reason why soooooo many are pissed at Vista. In order to get it to run like XP you have to use 4X the memory, buy a new CPU, video card and you might as well throw in a sound card because Creative Labs still has trouble releasing stable Vista drivers.
> 
> The day i'm forced to use this bloatware/shit operating system to play games is the day I switch exclusively to consoles. It's almost as if Windows Vista is bad joke by Microsoft.



lol yes many are, Vista has potential to be good, but it eats resources like sweets. On a complete clean install of Vista it ate - wait for it...... 43% of my available memory, and this is coming from someone with 2GB in dual channel. Once I cut a bunch of services off permanently however, it went to  a much more managable 23% or so. Even after that Vista still wasnt very good, but at least you can claw your RAM back from it. Many may be interested to learn that a while ago, MS announced that their "next iteration" of Vista could be ready to ship as early as 2008 - in other words most likely a proper working version of Vista will be released then called something else lol.


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## zekrahminator (Apr 27, 2007)

Look, let's not turn this into a "let's flame Vista" thread.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 27, 2007)

That is not flaming, its factual knowledge. Flaming Vista would be running around screaming Vista sucks.


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## zekrahminator (Apr 27, 2007)

And trust me, if you look in the right places, you can find facts to support any point of view you'd like, so you might as well be going around screaming Vista sucks .


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## Ketxxx (Apr 27, 2007)

Short of actually running around screaming Vista sucks, theres nothing wrong with factual posts supporting or hating Vista


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## erocker (Apr 28, 2007)

2008?  Vista = Windows M.E.?


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## wazzledoozle (Apr 28, 2007)

Longhorn Server comes out in '08 or late '07

The next consumer version of windows is code-name Vienna and is currently scheduled for release in '09 (add in the usual delays).


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## Ketxxx (Apr 28, 2007)

erocker said:


> 2008?  Vista = Windows M.E.?



Thats how a lot of ppl tend to see it, largely because of a lot of stupid decision M$ made with Vista. Such as an administrator still having to piss about changing file permissions before being able to edit or change some stuff.


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## Wile E (Apr 28, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Thats how a lot of ppl tend to see it, largely because of a lot of stupid decision M$ made with Vista. Such as an administrator still having to piss about changing file permissions before being able to edit or change some stuff.


But that's the way *nix based oses have been doing it for years. I don't see that as a con. It's a great safety feature, but Vista's implementation is a bit annoying and lacking, tbh.


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## wazzledoozle (Apr 28, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> Thats how a lot of ppl tend to see it, largely because of a lot of stupid decision M$ made with Vista. Such as an administrator still having to piss about changing file permissions before being able to edit or change some stuff.



It's called disabling UAC  , obviously you have limited or no actual experience with Vista.


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## BXtreme (Apr 28, 2007)

phew, so finally this thread got iced  and did spoon get banned ?


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## zekrahminator (Apr 28, 2007)

Yes BXtreme, he is, he's going to be "lick(ing) my long, hard, sweaty banstick" for the next five days.


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## mandelore (Apr 28, 2007)

LOL off topic but zek ur avatar just gets funnier and funnier


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## Slater (Apr 28, 2007)

Mussels said:


> Considering he has a DX9 video card (x850) i'd say he's just full of crap.


i said i can use it meaning i hgave the potential to. i know someone whos been working on it since like day 1


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## ARTOSOFT (Apr 28, 2007)

Anyhow to check whether my vista run on DX10 or DX9c?

Regards,
Arto.


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