# Crossflo-X   TPU Edition....



## MKmods (Mar 9, 2008)

Ok so it looks like we will be going SFF on this mod. 
I think Air will be the way to go with some Carbonfiber thrown in for fun.

For hardware I will be using my Biostar TForce 590, X2 6400 and a pair of ECS 8800GTs with the Accelero coolers. I have my PC Power & Cooling 510 with the external rail adjusters as well.

I could use a bit of advice form you OCers.. I need a CPU cooler that stands no more than 6" that is better than the Freezer. Any ideas
(the TR Ultra 120 is like 6.3")


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## panchoman (Mar 9, 2008)

i see you're a tforce fan.. Tforce FTW! 

um try the xigmatek s1283.. looking at its dimensions right now


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## will (Mar 9, 2008)

Sounds good, the thermalright ultima 90i is a good cooler and smaller than the u-120, its better than the freezer pro (some reviews have it within a few degrees of the TR U120E)...


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## imperialreign (Mar 9, 2008)

the Zalman 9700 stands about 5.5" - and it still considered amoung the best CPU coolers


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## MKmods (Mar 9, 2008)

do you think this will be enough airflow, lol


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## Wile E (Mar 9, 2008)

MKmods said:


> do you think this will be enough airflow, lol



No. need 14 more of those fans. lol.


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## MKmods (Mar 9, 2008)

I will mod each one like this





I am just trying to figure a color..


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## cdawall (Mar 9, 2008)

you could use a gemini II and run it passive in there


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## MKmods (Mar 9, 2008)

cdawall said:


> you could use a gemini II and run it passive in there



only 2 probs, 1- Im not a CM fan (except for the Centurion5) and 2-I really want airflow to go from right to left.
The Acceleros are really nice that way.

Also I am using a pair of Thermalright HR 09s on the mosfets and i want to be able to see the Ballistix tracers.


panchoman said:


> i see you're a tforce fan.. Tforce FTW!


I have had really good luck with them. for the $ I think they are unbeatable.
Also a couple weeks ago I emailed biostar asking for a I/O plate for the 570 so I could do the Rosewill mod, in 3 days it was at my door no charge.


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## imperialreign (Mar 9, 2008)

not big enough.

mod your case around these bad boys:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DER%2D16928&N=700+4294924500+4294839058+115&autoview=sku


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## Wile E (Mar 9, 2008)

MKmods said:


> I could use a bit of advice form you OCers.. I need a CPU cooler that stands no more than 6" that is better than the Freezer. Any ideas
> (the TR Ultra 120 is like 6.3")


If I read the dimensions correctly, I believe this will fit the bill. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233001


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## panchoman (Mar 9, 2008)

MKmods said:


> only 2 probs, 1- Im not a CM fan (except for the Centurion5) and 2-I really want airflow to go from right to left.
> The Acceleros are really nice that way.
> 
> Also I am using a pair of Thermalright HR 09s on the mosfets and i want to be able to see the Ballistix tracers.
> ...



wow.. that was really cool for biostar to do.. i've got a tforce 550 and i LOVE it! i see people with gigabyte 590's with bioses that have like 1/3 of the stuff in my bios and im like


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## DanishDevil (Mar 9, 2008)

Make sure you turn that northbridge heatsink 90 degrees so its fins match the airflow.

Looks like a sweet project so far!  7 users viewing right now!


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## MKmods (Mar 9, 2008)

Wile E said:


> If I read the dimensions correctly, I believe this will fit the bill. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233001



how do you think that compares to the AC Freezer?


imperialreign said:


> not big enough.
> 
> mod your case around these bad boys:
> 
> http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DER%2D16928&N=700+4294924500+4294839058+115&autoview=sku


LOL, when I first started I thought about that..


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## DanishDevil (Mar 9, 2008)

Better than the freezer.  The main difference is that the freezer uses this format from the bottom up for heat transfer:

Copper base
Copper heatpipe
Aluminum fins

While the Xigmatek uses this:

Copper heatpipe
Aluminum fins

That way, heat is wicked away from the CPU way before it could travel through a few mm of copper and hit the heatpipes.  It's called DHT, or Direct Heatpipe Touch.  If I hadn't dropped $50 on this Thermaltake V-1, I would have gotten one of those for sure.


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## imperialreign (Mar 9, 2008)

MKmods said:


> LOL, when I first started I thought about that..



well . . . 12v DC can be easily driven by the PSU



. . . if the PSU can handle the amperage draw of initial spin-up 

just throw a couple of steppers inline, and you'll be alright


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## panchoman (Mar 9, 2008)

mk.. if i could make a mod suggestion... you need to mod your car to turn it into a system! like so: http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=518


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## MKmods (Mar 9, 2008)

panchoman said:


> mk.. if i could make a mod suggestion... you need to mod your car to turn it into a system! like so: http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=518



the ultimate mod, modding an insane comp into your car using HUD (heads up display) and reflecting the monitor onto your windshield.

(hard to focus on the road though, lol)


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## panchoman (Mar 9, 2008)

DO IT!!!!!


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## imperialreign (Mar 9, 2008)

MKmods said:


> the ultimate mod, modding an insane comp into your car using HUD (heads up display) and reflecting the monitor onto your windshield.
> 
> (hard to focus on the road though, lol)



meh . . . not much more distracting than the onslaught of LCD gauge clusters, audio head units with DVD screens, the in-dash navigation system, compass in the rearview, on-dash satellite radio controls, cell phone holder with charging dock, ipod player, and 4 friends chillin in the back seat


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## MKmods (Mar 9, 2008)

lol


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## JrRacinFan (Mar 10, 2008)

Hiya MK, I would like to make the suggestion of the Scythe Katana 2.


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## Fitseries3 (Mar 10, 2008)

noctua makes a good CPU cooler and they also make a matching NB/SB cooler. i've used them and they work pretty well. almost as good as the TRUE.


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## PrudentPrincess (Mar 10, 2008)

MKmods said:


> Ok so it looks like we will be going SFF on this mod.
> I think Air will be the way to go with some Carbonfiber thrown in for fun.
> 
> For hardware I will be using my Biostar TForce 590, X2 6400 and a pair of ECS 8800GTs with the Accelero coolers. I have my PC Power & Cooling 510 with the external rail adjusters as well.
> ...



SFF with an ATX mobo?


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## MKmods (Mar 10, 2008)

PrudentPrincess said:


> SFF with an ATX mobo?


My cases can fit completely inside a Qpack, use ATX and SLI


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## panchoman (Mar 10, 2008)

mk, any plans to do the car mod? 

and thats crazy man.. love that red case.. cant believe you shoved an atx mobo & sli in there!


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## PrudentPrincess (Mar 10, 2008)

MKmods said:


> My cases can fit completely inside a Qpack, use ATX and SLI



Can you get me some pictures an atx sli board in my x-qpack2 would be awesome.


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## MKmods (Mar 10, 2008)

PrudentPrincess said:


> Can you get me some pictures an atx sli board in my x-qpack2 would be awesome.


Go here
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=54817


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## MKmods (Mar 11, 2008)

Ok back to the topic...I just ordered a 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233005
for a CPU cooler, great deal and is only 5 1/4" tall. (1" less that the 120mm version)

For the SB I got one of these
http://www.petrastechshop.com/encnonfocono1.html
with just a bit of trimming it will fit nicely with the Acceleros and 8800GTs

for the NB this
http://www.petrastechshop.com/enslonfocoso.html

And for the mosfets a pair of these
http://www.petrastechshop.com/thhrumocot3u.html

that should keep the top side of the mobo cool enough. Now on to figure the underside.


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## DanishDevil (Mar 12, 2008)

Looks great for keeping it cool!

And I would love to pull someone over once I'm a cop and have them say, "I'm sorry Officer.  I didn't see those people in the crosswalk or the red light.  I got distracted because the enemy UAV was airborne." :shadedshu


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## pt (Mar 12, 2008)

the nb and sb coolers remenber me of swiftech coolers


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## Silverel (Mar 12, 2008)

I loved swiftech coolers back in the day.... ah good ol Socket A...


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## MKmods (Mar 12, 2008)

I am customizing them as well..The original coolers are ok but alum. I figure these copper ones should help out a bit.

I have to take off for a couple days so I will be back Fri.
Il post a few more picts then, should have the mobo cooling sorted.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 15, 2008)

MKmods said:


> I am customizing them as well..The original coolers are ok but alum. I figure these copper ones should help out a bit.
> 
> I have to take off for a couple days so I will be back Fri.
> Il post a few more picts then, should have the mobo cooling sorted.



I would go with another option for NB & SB Cooling, HR-05 IFX's perform better. Remember to lap them though! See, heatpipes > copper block in terms of heat transfer speed. For the CPU get this instead http://www.xigmatek.com/product/air-hdtsd964.php, where you can find it. it enables you to easily attatch another 92mm on the rear.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 15, 2008)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowI...epa=0&Description=HDT-RS1283+120mm+CPU+Cooler

holy crap O_O


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## MKmods (Mar 15, 2008)

tkpenalty said:


> I would go with another option for NB & SB Cooling, HR-05 IFX's perform better. Remember to lap them though! See, heatpipes > copper block in terms of heat transfer speed.



I have ALL the Thermalright blocks here. They can not fit with the 8800GTs with the Acceleros.

If I was using a DFI yes, but the Biostar has no room. Have faith


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## PrudentPrincess (Mar 15, 2008)

MKmods said:


> Go here
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=54817



Could you post a pic of the inside of one of your qpack cases w/atx mobo?
(the only pic there is of an acrylic SFF.)


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## MKmods (Mar 15, 2008)

I dont use the Qpack case (poor design) thats why i made my own cases


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## PrudentPrincess (Mar 15, 2008)

MKmods said:


> I dont use the Qpack case (poor design) thats why i made my own cases



Sorry, I was thrown off guide when you said:
"My cases can fit completely inside a Qpack, use ATX and SLI"


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## Th3-R3as0n (Mar 29, 2008)

Soz wrong thread


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## InnocentCriminal (Mar 29, 2008)

Sff Ftw!

Modding Shuttles FTW!

XD


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## MKmods (Mar 29, 2008)

Im trying to decide on LN, Air, Water or a combo.


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## tzitzibp (Mar 29, 2008)

MKmods said:


> do you think this will be enough airflow, lol



put some wings on the side...it will probably take off...lol


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## Wile E (Mar 29, 2008)

MKmods said:


> Im trying to decide on LN, Air, Water or a combo.



LN2, period. Send the pots my way when you're done. lol.


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## MKmods (Jun 19, 2008)

Ok time to get going on this mod. I was going to use the New Biostar N750 mobo but traded for the Gigabyte 750 and now I am back to the Biostar 590.

I wasent happy with the 3Dmark06 scores 9K with the 9600s and 4850e. I am going to test the 4850e on the 590 mobo this weekend to see if there is REALLY a diff with X8 and X16 on the PCI-Es or if the score was so low just because of the 4850e.(was 13K + with the X2 6400)

For a theme (remember Im not such an artsy fartsy guy) I am going to try to do a futuristic  thing.

After looking at EnergyFXs comp (I hate/love the complexity) I am now waffling between air/water cooled. Please help me out with ur ideas.

Also I am having a prob with if I should be SLI, TriSLI or Quad SLI (next comp will be Crossfire)


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## EnergyFX (Jun 21, 2008)

MKmods said:


> Ok time to get going on this mod. I was going to use the New Biostar N750 mobo but traded for the Gigabyte 750 and now I am back to the Biostar 590.
> 
> I wasent happy with the 3Dmark06 scores 9K with the 9600s and 4850e. I am going to test the 4850e on the 590 mobo this weekend to see if there is REALLY a diff with X8 and X16 on the PCI-Es or if the score was so low just because of the 4850e.(was 13K + with the X2 6400)
> 
> ...



Well if you are waffling due to water cooling considerations, let me just say that n.audBl wasn't worth the trouble until it was all done.  Of course... I don't have a shop setup like you do.  I just got so sick of the project being on the dining room table.  Going liquid also makes it 10x harder to tinker with stuff once your done.

As for SLI/TriSLI/QuadSLI... refresh me on what the goals are.  For primary gaming, SLI will do fine with the expansion option of going Tri later.  If you want to do extensive benchmarking and pixle drag racing, then Quad is definitely an option.  My personal opinion is that none of the QuadSLI offerings are really worth the money now that the 280GTX has hit the street.  A TriSLI 2x0GTX will stomp on QuadSLI.  Look at it this way, lets compare the 280GTX to the 9800GX2.  Research the performance of the 280GTX vs. the GX2.  Now consider that you can get 3 280GTXs in a system, but only 2 GX2s.  The GX2 is awesome, but the 280GTX beats it in numbers.  

Ugh... now it's getting interweavingly complex.  Since you are considering multiple video cards, you also have to consider how many expansion slots they will consume... especially on air cooling.  An air cooled TriSLI setup devours every single expansion slot on the board, whereas using single slot waterblocks (like mine) would still leave 3 slots available.


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## MKmods (Jun 21, 2008)

First thanks for the reply. By any chance have you seen any of my other SFF mods?
(I usually build the case 12" deep 10" wide and 9" tall) 

I am having a hard time deciding on this one, I was gonna make a "Green" gamer. Very good specs,400 watt PS max, at least SLI and definately OC able. I have access to any hardware this time. My SFF case design will allow any GPU combo but honestly I hate to build stuff for the .2% and prefer to build for the avg. comp user (the other 99.8% of the world)

I also will be going AMD/Nvidia (its what I have and I like AMD)

I usually go with water but I have been able to design air stuff that works pretty darn close. Right now I am running my 2 ECS 9600GTs in SLI, one is water cooled with my custom block, the other is Passive cooled with the Accelero cooler, they are within 5C. 

I like the simplicity of the passive cooling but in real life it takes up a LOT of space. Remember the dimensions I have to work with (12X10X9) and I am hoping to shrink it a bit more in the height to about 7".

I am really impressed with the 4850s (insane value) but as this is a Nvidia show they will have to be the next mod.

EDIT: Found it, here is a link to a couple of my earlier SFF mods
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=54817
(they are completely wired in those picts)


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## EnergyFX (Jun 21, 2008)

So what is this build's future... like after it is done.  Is it for you or to be sold... or something else?  I kind of get the impression that you might be building it for the fun of the build and will find a home for it later, but I could be way off.

I think I have seen one of your SFF builds, but it was a while back.  I also followed the 'simple' mod you did with the green hex grilling on the front that I believe you sold to someone here on the board.  I'm sure I've seen others, but I look a so many peoples rigs.  I'm kind of addicted. :shadedshu

Edit: Oh... and you'll never convert me to ATI... lol, so just plan to take my nVidia fanboism with a grain of salt.


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## MKmods (Jun 21, 2008)

I posted a link of a couple of SFF cases above. Usually after its done I disassemble it and start on the next one.
But this is gonna be special (probably a long time before there will be another like it) so Im gonna keep it.
As to selling cases its definitely not for the money (paint alone costs more than I sell the cases for) I usually do it to show ideas and tips I have to improve existing design/efficiency.

The SFF cases are different as they usually have several hundred hours in each one so to sell one would be crazy.

Here is the last one made from alum and carbonfiber




(the wiring is soldered to the back of the mobo)


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## EnergyFX (Jun 21, 2008)

Ah, so you do it for the fun.  

So how 'on the fence' are you about shifting over to liquid on this one?  It kind of seems you are already going in the air cooled direction.

I might have an idea for liquid cooling that I have yet to see done.  The second picture in the link you posted reminded me of it.


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## MKmods (Jun 21, 2008)

PM me with your idea.


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## EnergyFX (Jun 23, 2008)

MKmods said:


> Ok back to the topic...I just ordered a
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233005
> for a CPU cooler, great deal and is only 5 1/4" tall. (1" less that the 120mm version)
> 
> ...



What memory cooler(s) are you thinking?

If I may make a suggestion on the CPU cooler... since you have opted to go with a mix of copper and aluminum, this would be a very nice CPU cooler that is low profile, supports your intention to keep airflow from front to back, AND uses copper heatpipes with aluminum fins, so it would tie your dissimilar metals together nicely.







http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/scythe-ninja-mini-6-heat-pipe-cpu-cooler-scmnj-1000-p-16613.html


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## MKmods (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks VERY much for your input. (especially the measurements on the cooler, Nice) I am making my own blocks for the CPU and GPUs. For the memory I will be using Geil EvoONE memory (the heatsinks look and work cool)
http://www.geilusa.com/products/category/id/13

The plan will be to keep the height to 7" on this comp. (cross ur fingers)

after seeing your comp  I really want to emulate it (on a smaller scale of course)


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## Bluefox1115 (Jun 23, 2008)

I'd rather just have the total sum of money spent on the system, even though it looks rediculously cool and probably plays COD4 10x better than it looks. lol Phase Chane? That'll keep it under 7"


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## Hayder_Master (Jun 23, 2008)

really good work, how much total cost


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## MKmods (Jun 23, 2008)

Bluefox1115 said:


> I'd rather just have the total sum of money spent on the system, even though it looks rediculously cool and probably plays COD4 10x better than it looks. lol Phase Chane? That'll keep it under 7"





hayder.master said:


> really good work, how much total cost



When I won my first mod contest (Ultra) a big part was because of TPU. The community was very supportive and this is my way to give back some of that support.

My idea when I build is to use parts everyone else does. When you watch mods that use $10K in hardware they look cool but its not something 99% of the world can/would do. I prefer to take parts that anyone else can use and make them better.

Another thing important to me is "Value" I have the time and skills so the crazy hand built case is something I do to keep busy but there is no point to spending $700 on a GPU when 2 $125 ones will do almost the same.

My mods are to show you some of the things I have learned and hopefully you will take them and improve on them further.


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## MKmods (Jun 26, 2008)

Ok looks like there may be a hardware change, May be Intel inside (I feel so ashamed).

I figured how to fit a dual 120mm rad and water cool both cards (3 dont seem to make enough difference) and CPU using the Swiftech Pump.
http://www.petrastechshop.com/swapdrsesewa.html
I will be swapping the series 1 pump for a series 3.2 and opening up the flow a bit.

I am looking at Hdds, I have 4 Hitachi Laptop 80 gigs in Raid0 but they are the 7k100 series and the 7k200 seem to be quite a bit faster. Due to changes I may run a pair of reg size Hdds, il have to see when the hardware starts showing up.

One thing I am looking forward to building is a custom shroud for the GPUs that use a molded in 120mm fan to cool them. 
As far as case size it looks like 12" deep 10" wide and 7" tall. (if there is a smaller SFF comp with SLI and H20 I would like to see it)


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## Bluefox1115 (Jun 26, 2008)

Dude you do some kickass work.. Wanna mod an Antec 1200 for optimal air flow + WC and lots of hardware and wire management? I'm just too lazy. lol


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## MKmods (Jun 26, 2008)

LOL after I finish all this stuff for Nvision08 Il have a break. (I hope)


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## Bluefox1115 (Jun 27, 2008)

MKmods said:


> LOL after I finish all this stuff for Nvision08 Il have a break. (I hope)



Hey good luck with that BTW.


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## MKmods (Jun 27, 2008)

Thank you, I am pretty excited having 3 of my cases there.


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## MKmods (Aug 2, 2008)

wow its been over a month.. guess I better get started on this.

Hardware change: AsusM3N-HT Del, AMD 9950, EVGA 9800GTX+, FSP Everest 1010 PS...Finally all showed up.

I am water cooling the GPU and CPU. Everything will attach to the CarbonFiber mobo tray (Mobo, Hdds, DVD and PS. Looks like I am going with 4 fans, 2 on the rad and 2 cross flow fans
http://www.sofasco.com/dc_cross.html


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## dark2099 (Aug 2, 2008)

Nice update, I haven't been following the 3dmark threads, so don't know if anyone has has 9800gtx+ yet, nor anybody with a 9950.  I especially like the carbon fiber mobo tray.


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## MKmods (Aug 2, 2008)

Im not a big fan of the benchmarks, I would rather have a small cool running gamer. Once done I will see how far it can go.
This is more an exorcise in cooling, My thought is smaller case comp runs cooler.


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## Hayder_Master (Aug 3, 2008)

i think this is better cpu cooler 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118019


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## MKmods (Aug 3, 2008)

thanks hayder.master but I am using this one (that is highly modded)
http://www.petrastechshop.com/swapdrsesewa.html

I am trying to remove 2" off the height of my other SFF cases (9") so a tall cooler wouldnt fit.

Here is a shot of the pump/block on the mobo





One thing I am doing is replacing the hose with copper tubing wherever possible. (takes up less space and removes heat where plastic hose tends to absorb it)


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## Hayder_Master (Aug 4, 2008)

MKmods said:


> thanks hayder.master but I am using this one (that is highly modded)
> http://www.petrastechshop.com/swapdrsesewa.html
> 
> I am trying to remove 2" off the height of my other SFF cases (9") so a tall cooler wouldnt fit.
> ...




wooooooooow , really im interesting cuz im ask in other thread about water cool base pipe mode , so now i see you do it , can you show me mod part of this , and you are not only do it or mod it but you are show creative work


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## MKmods (Aug 4, 2008)

I took the cooler apart and notice it uses a DDC pump (swiftech 350 model) 
First thing is to replace the pump with the 355 version. Because of its higher pressure its a bit better with multiple devices.





the next prob is position of the intake, exhaust. One other thing I noticed is the internal mounts imped the flow a bit (the 2 small raised bosses towards the center of the part)


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## PrudentPrincess (Aug 4, 2008)

With water cooling you might have to change the name.


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## MKmods (Aug 4, 2008)

lol, wait till you see what Im doing on the cooling. There is still gonna be Crossflo action on this comp.
I just got back from our local plastics place with some more Delrin. Im getting ready to make the new pump and GPU blocks.


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