# AMD FX "Vishera" Processor Pricing Revealed



## btarunr (Sep 24, 2012)

AMD's upcoming second-generation FX "Vishera" multi-core CPUs are likely to appeal to a variety of budget-conscious buyers, if a price-list leaked from US retailer BLT is accurate. The list includes pricing of the first four models AMD will launch some time in October, including the flagship FX-8350. The FX-8350 leads the pack with eight cores, 4.00 GHz clock speed, and 16 MB of total cache. It is priced at US $253.06. The FX-8350 is followed by another eight-core chip, the FX-8320, clocked at 3.50 GHz, and priced at $242.05. 

Trailing the two eight-core chips is the FX-6300, carrying six cores, 3.50 GHz clock speed, 14 MB total cache, and a price-tag of $175.77. The most affordable chip of the lot, the FX-4350 packs four cores, 4.00 GHz clock speed, and 8 MB of total cache (likely by halving even the L3 cache). The FX-4350 is expected to go for $131.42. In all, the new lineup draws several parallels with the first-generation FX lineup, with FX-8150, FX-8120, FX-6100, and FX-4150.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## micropage7 (Sep 24, 2012)

and im waiting for better performance/watt ratio, many cores doesnt mean it would be better on processing
but i guess we need some benchmark then


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## Hustler (Sep 24, 2012)

Lol..they're still going to market these as 8,6,4 core CPU's...

4,3,2 is more accurate.


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## badtaylorx (Sep 24, 2012)

IF,,, and i stress IF, AMD learned any lessons with bulldozer, this pricing would seem to suggest performance on par with an Ivy i5....

who knows tho..........


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## _JP_ (Sep 24, 2012)

Hustler said:


> Lol..they're still going to market these as 8,6,4 core CPU's...
> 
> 4,3,2 is more accurate.


Cores =/= Modules.


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## EpicShweetness (Sep 24, 2012)

badtaylorx said:


> IF,,, and i stress IF, AMD learned any lessons with bulldozer, this pricing would seem to suggest performance on par with an Ivy i5....
> 
> who knows tho..........



Early trinity benchmark's and the fact that clock speed has gone up suggest otherwise, which is unfortunate. Mostly unfortunate that I have almost no expectation's despite me owning a GPU of there's.


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## Yellow&Nerdy? (Sep 24, 2012)

I don't think this will make much difference... Hopefully AMD has at least fixed the horridly large power consumption, and maybe closed the performance gap in a bit. Honestly my expectations are pretty low considering how much of a big fat fail Bulldozer was...


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## DaJMasta (Sep 24, 2012)

It'll be an incremental improvement over bulldozer, so it probably won't compete clock for clock, core for core with ivy bridge.

The thing that really caught my eye is... why would anyone buy an 8320?  It's $11 cheaper and runs half a GHz slower.  That doesn't sound right...


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## faramir (Sep 24, 2012)

EpicShweetness said:


> Early trinity benchmark's and the fact that clock speed has gone up suggest otherwise, which is unfortunate.



Um, Trinity benchmarks suggest 10-15 improvement in IPC. L3 cache performance might increase as well (Bulldozer was pretty bad in this regard) but since Trinity doesn't contain any, we cannot tell how much of an impact (if any) this is going to have. Add the ~10% frequency increase on top of that and the improvement should be around 25% at same power consumption, which isn't all that bad ... 

Nowhere near Sandy Bridge (let alone Ivy Bridge) when it comes to performance per watt but at least it looks more competitive as Intel hasn't been able to make such a big step from Sandy to Ivy Bridge.


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## swaaye (Sep 24, 2012)

Outside of the corner cases where Bulldozer was decent too, I think at best it will be competitive with the Nehalem-based CPUs in more common usage scenarios.


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## nt300 (Sep 24, 2012)

Yellow&Nerdy? said:


> I don't think this will make much difference... Hopefully AMD has at least fixed the horridly large power consumption, and maybe closed the performance gap in a bit. Honestly my expectations are pretty low considering how much of a big fat fail Bulldozer was...


AMD won't make mistake twice in a row. This FX series is going to perform beyond our expectations of 15%. The interesting thing about this enhanced Bulldozer is for instance benchmark FX-8150 at 3.6GHz versus FX-8350 at 3.6GHz and you may find the Piledriver to gain a little, maybe about 1% to 5%. But bench a higher clock say at 4.6GHz for each and the Piledriver pulls ahead by as much 15% to 20%. 

Why is it that the Piledriver runs better than Bulldozer clock for clock but with higher clocks


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## Covert_Death (Sep 24, 2012)

nt300 said:


> AMD won't make mistake twice in a row. This FX series is going to perform beyond our expectations of 15%. The interesting thing about this enhanced Bulldozer is for instance benchmark FX-8150 at 3.6GHz versus FX-8350 at 3.6GHz and you may find the Piledriver to gain a little, maybe about 1% to 5%. But bench a higher clock say at 4.6GHz for each and the Piledriver pulls ahead by as much 15% to 20%.
> 
> Why is it that the Piledriver runs better than Bulldozer clock for clock but with higher clocks



well if your asking why i think its because none of those comparisons have been done yet and your making things up lol....


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## cdawall (Sep 24, 2012)

As long as the 8350 can clock for clock beat thuban overall I will be happy. Seeing how it is clocked at 4ghz I doubt it will beat it IPC, but I can hope.


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## erocker (Sep 24, 2012)

Covert_Death said:


> well if your asking why i think its because none of those comparisons have been done yet and your making things up lol....



Quite possibly.



cdawall said:


> As long as the 8350 can clock for clock beat thuban overall I will be happy. Seeing how it is clocked at 4ghz I doubt it will beat it IPC, but I can hope.



I hope not. Prices just don't line up if it doesn't even match Sandy Bridge.


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## cdawall (Sep 24, 2012)

erocker said:


> I hope not. Prices just don't line up if it doesn't even match Sandy Bridge.



From the Chinese rumors I have heard they still can't beat Phenom II in single core, but multicore has gained some percents similar to Phenom I vs Phenom II. Biggest gain being clockspeed. I have heard 5ghz on air, but cannot confirm.


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## Konceptz (Sep 24, 2012)

$253??? that 8350 better perform otherwise for that price you might as well go intel


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## ironwolf (Sep 24, 2012)

The actual info on the hothardware site has been updated with correct model # info on at least one CPU, can the OP maybe update it?


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## erocker (Sep 24, 2012)

cdawall said:


> From the Chinese rumors I have heard they still can't beat Phenom II in single core, but multicore has gained some percents similar to Phenom I vs Phenom II. Biggest gain being clockspeed. I have heard 5ghz on air, but cannot confirm.



If that's true, bummer. I heard 5ghz on air before Bulldozer was released too. Sounds like the same thing all over again.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 24, 2012)

I have to agree , deffinately waiting on reviews as i could probably just stick with this cpu and get some new gfx's instead, i hope they(Amd) twist my arm on this matter.


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## NC37 (Sep 24, 2012)

Little disappointed in the price. But I'm sure these will sell like BD did. Amazing how well that went after how heavily downed it was in reviews. Guess people only saw that FX name and went nuts.


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## Steevo (Sep 24, 2012)

I think people were expecting a miracle driver, or a patch or something. But that never happened, and it still won't, and it is still a mediocre performance part at mediocre performance part pricing, not that it is bad, but it isn't great. 


I still plan on using one for a server just so I can play around with it.


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## Super XP (Sep 24, 2012)

Covert_Death said:


> well if your asking why i think its because none of those comparisons have been done yet and your making things up lol....


I read about this too, but they compared a supposing FX 8350 engineering sample (OC'ed Bulldozer IMO) that seemed to have done a lot better at higher frequencies. Remember your not only OC'ing the CPU, you are also OC'ing the HT and IMC unless you manually set them via bios. Anyhow this is all speculation, give me legitimate benchmarks then I will deside whether I will replace my FX 8120 w/ FX 8320 or for a few dollars more the FX 8350


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## brian111 (Sep 24, 2012)

I suspect these prices will start to decline after it's been out a few weeks.  I wish it were that way with Intel, but there in a position where they don't have to.  Even the previous generation has only come down slightly.


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## xBruce88x (Sep 24, 2012)

Indeed, and welcome to TPU!


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## slybunda (Sep 24, 2012)

fail all over again


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## HumanSmoke (Sep 24, 2012)

Super XP said:


> I read about this too, but they compared a supposing FX 8350 engineering sample (OC'ed Bulldozer IMO)


I honestly don't think there's any difference. Vishera seems to be a C0 revision Bulldozer. As with any new process node, you'll get refinement in design and better execution in silicon as the process matures.
Piledriver = Bulldozer C0 = Bulldozer revision 2. 
I doubt you'll see anything that hasn't been documented in other CPU designs tbh (i.e. performance bumps between D0 ES Sandy Bridge and late D2 revision), and I'm pretty sure all new stuff they were supposed to be packing into Vishera, e.g. - the resonant clock mesh tech isn't included.


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## Super XP (Sep 24, 2012)

It's all speculation. IMO, Piledriver will gain due to process revision, but with that revision, AMD performed many tweaks and modifications. I mean, 10% to 15% shouldn't be that difficult to achieve with such an architecture. I'll bet most of the gain will come from miner tweaks versus just jacking up the clock rate. But Steamroller will be a completely different story, and that is where we may see AMD come back and challenge Intel on performance per watt and $.


slybunda said:


> fail all over again


Yes because you have direct links to official benchmarks. Oh, can you provide us a link


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## tacosRcool (Sep 24, 2012)

Well lets hope they can deliver


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 24, 2012)

HumanSmoke said:


> and I'm pretty sure all new stuff they were supposed to be packing into Vishera, e.g. - the resonant clock mesh tech isn't included.



and im pretty sure the resonant clock mesh is in place as are tweeks optimisations and even some new functions that were not at all on bulldozer, Piledriver is an evolution of BD not exactly the same but done a bit neater or something, they have added a few things.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 24, 2012)

slybunda said:


> fail all over again



worthless


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## Covert_Death (Sep 24, 2012)

the biggest thing here is AMD obviously learned their lesson... they aren't over hyping PD to be something just freakin awesome out of left field, in fact they are pretty much publicly ignoring PD and talking about SR in all their ventures because THAT is what they are proud of right now. PD is mostly likely C0 BD or something of the sort whereas SR takes what BD was in concept and makes it a reality. 

i just hope SR is AM3+ because i don't want to buy a new board when this is perfectly fine.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 24, 2012)

brian111 said:


> I suspect these prices will start to decline after it's been out a few weeks.  I wish it were that way with Intel, but there in a position where they don't have to.  Even the previous generation has only come down slightly.



heck theyve never slashed prices even when AMD had taken the lead in performance during A64 Era.



Covert_Death said:


> the biggest thing here is AMD obviously learned their lesson... they aren't over hyping PD to be something just freakin awesome out of left field, in fact they are pretty much publicly ignoring PD and talking about SR in all their ventures because THAT is what they are proud of right now. PD is mostly likely C0 BD or something of the sort whereas SR takes what BD was in concept and makes it a reality.
> 
> i just hope SR is AM3+ because i don't want to buy a new board when this is perfectly fine.



You will see another chipset launch for SR, 1090/1070 probably, should incorporate USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt along with PEG 3.0/3.1- considering the way they are talking about it over PD.


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## symmetrical (Sep 24, 2012)

Wow AMD didn't learn anything did they.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 24, 2012)

symmetrical said:


> Wow AMD didn't learn anything did they.





apparently you havent been reading for the last several months.



btw where's your system specs at?


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## Dent1 (Sep 24, 2012)

Covert_Death said:


> the biggest thing here is AMD obviously learned their lesson... they aren't over hyping PD to be something just freakin awesome out of left field, in fact they are pretty much publicly ignoring PD and talking about SR in all their ventures because THAT is what they are proud of right now.



More than likely, they're marketing team has done a poor job this time round. Unfortunately AMD's weakness is their marketing and promotion.  Believe me, if the marketing budget permitted and they had a strong campaign they would be loud and proud even if it performed like a 1999 Duron.


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## TRWOV (Sep 25, 2012)

NC37 said:


> Little disappointed in the price. But I'm sure these will sell like BD did. Amazing how well that went after how heavily downed it was in reviews. Guess people only saw that FX name and went nuts.



There's a market for everything. Even VIA can make a living with their Nanos.


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## symmetrical (Sep 25, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> apparently you havent been reading for the last several months.
> 
> 
> 
> btw where's your system specs at?



Oh no need for a nut kick. I meant to say they havent learn with their pricing. I used to have an fx-8120. While i liked its desktop performance it was disappointing to me for gaming as it wasnt an improvement on my old phenom ii 965be. I now have a 2600k 4.6ghz and zotac gtx 680. 

I just thought AMD would have priced vishera lower to stay competitive. Then again well see how it actually performs when they release to the public.


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## cdawall (Sep 25, 2012)

symmetrical said:


> Oh no need for a nut kick. I meant to say they havent learn with their pricing. I used to have an fx-8120. While i liked its desktop performance it was disappointing to me for gaming as it wasnt an improvement on my old phenom ii 965be. I now have a 2600k 4.6ghz and zotac gtx 680.
> 
> I just thought AMD would have priced vishera lower to stay competitive. Then again well see how it actually performs when they release to the public.



Why price something lower if it sells higher? Plenty of people are buying the "overpriced" BD chips what makes you think these will be different?

I will wait until benchmarks pop up of the real thing before I jump to conclusions. I made that mistake once already and received a steaming pile of shit. 

As long as minor tweaks net 10-15% gains and they overclock well I will be getting one. If not my B97@4ghz is chugging along great.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 25, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Why price something lower if it sells higher? Plenty of people are buying the "overpriced" BD chips what makes you think these will be different?
> 
> I will wait until benchmarks pop up of the real thing before I jump to conclusions. I made that mistake once already and received a steaming pile of shit.
> 
> As long as minor tweaks net 10-15% gains and they overclock well I will be getting one. If not my B97@4ghz is chugging along great.




I just want to see the numbers myself and a clock for clock comparison because if the PD only has a gain from increasing core clock then its just a BD thats been OCd.


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## Melvis (Sep 25, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> I just want to see the numbers myself and a clock for clock comparison because if the PD only has a gain from increasing core clock then its just a BD thats been OCd.



Same here, and i also hope that is not just a OC to get the performance increase or ill be very unhappy


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## os2wiz (Sep 25, 2012)

*Pricing on these chips is pre-order and is NOT official AMD pricing*

The pricing for pre-orders is NOT official AMD pricing. Why are you guys so unaware of a simple fact like this. Pre-order pricing is always higher than the actual recommended price by AMD. The same thing happened with Bulldozer. The actual post-release pricing will be in the $240's for the FX-8350. It is NOT simply a budget-conscious cpu as the site operator is claiming he obviously buys into the OBR bulls--t. This cpu is 15% faster than Bulldozer on IPC. That is not a guess it is a fact. AMD stated this months ago. This cpu will be faster than I7 2600k for multithreaded apps and definitely be a close competitior to the I7 2600k in gaming.  Objective benchmarking will NOT be available until after the release date. I expect this chip to be the best high performance bargain cpu in the market. Intel will have nothing to match up against it within $60 higher in price. They will be forced to lower 2600K pricing and I do not think that will work when the facts are out. This is the beginning of AMD's turnaround . Together with the Trinity APU's Intel is definitely going to lose market share. 
When Steamroller comes out at the same time as Hasbeen in 2013 I see the end of Intel domination being in the not too distant future. AMD should make huge inroads into the portable (laptop) market and the desktop is coming soon after.  Bye bye Intel fan boys!





btarunr said:


> AMD's upcoming second-generation FX "Vishera" multi-core CPUs are likely to appeal to a variety of budget-conscious buyers, if a price-list leaked from US retailer BLT is accurate. The list includes pricing of the first four models AMD will launch some time in October, including the flagship FX-8350. The FX-8350 leads the pack with eight cores, 4.00 GHz clock speed, and 16 MB of total cache. It is priced at US $253.06. The FX-8350 is followed by another eight-core chip, the FX-8320, clocked at 3.50 GHz, and priced at $242.05.
> 
> Trailing the two eight-core chips is the FX-6300, carrying six cores, 3.50 GHz clock speed, 14 MB total cache, and a price-tag of $175.77. The most affordable chip of the lot, the FX-4350 packs four cores, 4.00 GHz clock speed, and 8 MB of total cache (likely by halving even the L3 cache). The FX-4350 is expected to go for $131.42. In all, the new lineup draws several parallels with the first-generation FX lineup, with FX-8150, FX-8120, FX-6100, and FX-4150.
> 
> ...


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 25, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> The pricing for pre-orders is NOT official AMD pricing. Why are you guys so unaware of a simple fact like this. Pre-order pricing is always higher than the actual recommended price by AMD. The same thing happened with Bulldozer. The actual post-release pricing will be in the $240's for the FX-8350. It is NOT simply a budget-conscious cpu as the site operator is claiming he obviously buys into the OBR bulls--t. This cpu is 15% faster than Bulldozer on IPC. That is not a guess it is a fact. AMD stated this months ago. This cpu will be faster than I7 2600k for multithreaded apps and definitely be a close competitior to the I7 2600k in gaming. Objective benchmarking will NOT be available until after the release date. I expect this chip to be the best high performance bargain cpu in the market. Intel will have nothing to match up against it within $60 higher in price. They will be forced to lower 2600K pricing and I do not think that will work when the facts are out. This is the beginning of AMD's turnaround . Together with the Trinity APU's Intel is definitely going to lose market share.
> When Steamroller comes out at the same time as Hasbeen in 2013 I see the end of Intel domination being in the not too distant future. AMD should make huge inroads into the portable (laptop) market and the desktop is coming soon after. Bye bye Intel fan boys!



welcome to TPU ,you do reallise your sounding like an Amd fanboi though dont you

Intel will definately loose market share in the future but not just to Amd, and i share your optimism however suggesting that because Amd said it Will be 15% faster, that it definately will be is silly, as they like intel have misslead in the past, <still awaiting reliable testing myself.


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## faramir (Sep 25, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> I just want to see the numbers myself and a clock for clock comparison because if the PD only has a gain from increasing core clock then its just a BD thats been OCd.



Here they are:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-5800k-a8-5600k-a6-5400k,3224-2.html

This is Trinity (Piledriver-based) versus Bulldozer with 2 modules disabled. As you can clearly see even Piledriver with no L3 cache beats Bulldozer in single- and multi-threaded tasks at same clockspeed (= better IPC).

Note that Vishera is going to feature L3 cache, missing in Trinity, hopefully improved from the somewhat botched up Bulldozer implementation, bringing performance further up. Then there's the matter of higher clocks at same TDP (more than 10% improvement over Bulldozer).

All in all Vishera is looking to be exactly what Bulldozer should have been last year - about 20-25% faster.


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## Horrux (Sep 25, 2012)

^^ 
That looks pretty good!

Didn't AMD promise something on the order of 30% better IPC?  If so, with the increased clock speed, that would make these products competitive for a change...

And, wasn't there a 10-core variant in the works? Where's that?


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## HTC (Sep 25, 2012)

Horrux said:


> ^^
> That looks pretty good!
> 
> Didn't AMD promise something on the order of 30% better IPC?  If so, with the increased clock speed, that would make these products competitive for a change...
> ...



*Not sure* but i think you're confusing the A10-5X00 with it having 10 cores.


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## faramir (Sep 25, 2012)

Horrux said:


> ^^ C?  If so, with the increased clock speed, that would make these products competitive for a change...



Not for a single step - they suggested that each step (i.e. from Bulldozer to Piledriver, from Piledriver to Steamroller and from Steamroller to Excavator) would bring a 10-15% improvement. Here's the diagram that has been posted on many sites:

http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com...Gen-FX-Series-CPUs-to-Arrive-in-Q3-2012-3.jpg


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## Super XP (Sep 25, 2012)

Horrux said:


> ^^
> That looks pretty good!
> 
> Didn't AMD promise something on the order of 30% better IPC?  If so, with the increased clock speed, that would make these products competitive for a change...
> ...


Yes, you are right, Piledriver was suppose to be 10-Core. But that was with the old management and the old road maps. Now I would expect Steamroller to offer at least one 10-Core CPU along with a bunch of 8, 6 & 4 core CPU's.



eidairaman1 said:


> heck theyve never slashed prices even when AMD had taken the lead in performance during A64 Era.
> 
> You will see another chipset launch for SR, 1090/1070 probably, should incorporate USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt along with PEG 3.0/3.1- considering the way they are talking about it over PD.


You mean Lightning Bolt 
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5413/amds-lightning-bolt-low-cost-thunderbolt-alternative-for-usb-30dp


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## symmetrical (Sep 26, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> The pricing for pre-orders is NOT official AMD pricing. Why are you guys so unaware of a simple fact like this. Pre-order pricing is always higher than the actual recommended price by AMD. The same thing happened with Bulldozer. The actual post-release pricing will be in the $240's for the FX-8350. It is NOT simply a budget-conscious cpu as the site operator is claiming he obviously buys into the OBR bulls--t. This cpu is 15% faster than Bulldozer on IPC. That is not a guess it is a fact. AMD stated this months ago. This cpu will be faster than I7 2600k for multithreaded apps and definitely be a close competitior to the I7 2600k in gaming.  Objective benchmarking will NOT be available until after the release date. I expect this chip to be the best high performance bargain cpu in the market. Intel will have nothing to match up against it within $60 higher in price. They will be forced to lower 2600K pricing and I do not think that will work when the facts are out. This is the beginning of AMD's turnaround . Together with the Trinity APU's Intel is definitely going to lose market share.
> When Steamroller comes out at the same time as Hasbeen in 2013 I see the end of Intel domination being in the not too distant future. AMD should make huge inroads into the portable (laptop) market and the desktop is coming soon after.  Bye bye Intel fan boys!



Now you deserve a 

When Bulldozer was announced at $245 for the FX-8150, stupid retailers priced it at least $279-$299. They are going to do the same thing for Vishera. And you are stating all this mumbo jumbo on what? Speculation? Hopes? Dreams?

The same type of attitude when Bulldozer was launched.

Don't set yourself up for disappointment is all I am saying. 

Wait until real performance benchmarks are out before making any type of claims.


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## xenocide (Sep 26, 2012)

I'll bite;



os2wiz said:


> The pricing for pre-orders is NOT official AMD pricing. Why are you guys so unaware of a simple fact like this. Pre-order pricing is always higher than the actual recommended price by AMD. The same thing happened with Bulldozer. The actual post-release pricing will be in the $240's for the FX-8350.



People are aware how it works, but the fact is BD CPU's were marked up something like 10-20% when they first launched because they were new and exciting and if I recall the initial shipments were pretty small so retailers wanted to maximize profits.  The original "AMD Price" for BD CPU's was substantially lower than most people who bought them immediately paid.  Most of the super marked up BD CPU's were also on sketchy sites from like Romania, this one seems to be a bit more legitimate.



os2wiz said:


> It is NOT simply a budget-conscious cpu as the site operator is claiming he obviously buys into the OBR bulls--t.



The same OBR who was shamed for saying Bulldozer would perform worse than Phenom II when applications used 4 or less threads and everyone ridiculed him saying it was impossible?  OBR is definitely hit or miss, but saying he is completely bullshit when he was spot on with Bulldozer is foolish.  As for the site operators, I've seen plenty of instances where bta/wiz ignore stories everyone else is reporting on because they use objective reasoning rather than just posting whatever the hell they think will get hits. 



os2wiz said:


> This cpu is 15% faster than Bulldozer on IPC. That is not a guess it is a fact. AMD stated this months ago.



Well if AMD's Grade A marketting team said it, it must be so.  The same people that showed the FX Series crushing Intel CPU's in gaming during countless presentations have never been wrong (hint--sarcasm).



os2wiz said:


> This cpu will be faster than I7 2600k for multithreaded apps and definitely be a close competitior to the I7 2600k in gaming.  Objective benchmarking will NOT be available until after the release date. I expect this chip to be the best high performance bargain cpu in the market. Intel will have nothing to match up against it within $60 higher in price. They will be forced to lower 2600K pricing and I do not think that will work when the facts are out.



It needs to be on par with the i7-2600k when it comes to gaming, and BD already edges out the Core CPU's when the conditions are perfect (AMD approved instruction sets are usable and it uses 8 threads).  The problem with BD was that it could offer comperable performance, but needed to be OCed and devoured power while running quite a bit warmer than Intel offerings at the time.  I find it troubling that you see nothing wrong with the fact that AMDis happy to be almost 2 years behind Intel at all times.  The i7-2600k is nearing EOL, and Intel will probably lower the prices naturally to clear out stock.



os2wiz said:


> This is the beginning of AMD's turnaround . Together with the Trinity APU's Intel is definitely going to lose market share.



I disagree.  Where Intel may lose Market Share due to APU's, you're ignoring their Ace In The Hole--Mobile CPU's.  Intel's Medfield, their first entry into the Cell Phone market, was substantially better than expected, and showed that x86 was just as capable as ARM.  If Intel has shown anything, it's that with a process shrink and some tweaking they can give surprisingly huge improvements, and I think they are poised to make a huge impact in that market, which is much larger than the laptop market is.  AMD still has no plans for manufacturing processors for mobile phones or tablets, which means they are missing out on a massively lucrative market.



os2wiz said:


> When Steamroller comes out at the same time as Hasbeen in 2013 I see the end of Intel domination being in the not too distant future. AMD should make huge inroads into the portable (laptop) market and the desktop is coming soon after.  Bye bye Intel fan boys!



Steamroller will probably not be out until the end of 2013 or even as far as early to mid 2014.  Haswell will be a huge performance gain considering it's an architecture change rather than a refinement.  I imagine at least as big of an impact as Sandy Bridge had, and probably the beginning of Intel switching to adding more cores for entry level CPU's (probably offering only Quad-Cores on 1150, but 6-8 cores on the high-end platform).  All of that aside, everything indicates Piledriver will be more of a refinement than an overhaul, and that Steamroller will be a much large performance gain.  I think per-thread performance on high end Intel offerings will still be greater than the highest end Vishera offering, and Haswell will launch quite a bit earlier than Steamroller giving Intel the price/performance edge they have kind of slid into since Sandy Bridge.


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## os2wiz (Sep 26, 2012)

*Tired of garbage being posted by anti AMD Intel know-nothings.*



symmetrical said:


> Now you deserve a
> 
> When Bulldozer was announced at $245 for the FX-8150, stupid retailers priced it at least $279-$299. They are going to do the same thing for Vishera. And you are stating all this mumbo jumbo on what? Speculation? Hopes? Dreams?
> 
> ...



I can live with that but then the Intel crowd should be muzzled they are extremely obnoxious in my opinion. Tom's Hardware analysis of trinity lays credence to the fact that Vishera  CPU's should also have a 15% increase in IPC as AMD has claimed.


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## xenocide (Sep 26, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> I can live with that but then the Intel crowd should be muzzled they are extremely obnoxious in my opinion. Tom's Hardware analysis of trinity lays credence to the fact that Vishera  CPU's should also have a 15% increase in IPC as AMD has claimed.



But your claim was originally that the 15% IPC increase would put it on par for Intel offerings.  In that same Benchmark the i7-2600K (at 3.4GHz) clocks in at 1:03 compared to the PD-based CPU pulling 1:31 (at 3.8GHz).  I mean, hell, the Phenom II X4 980 (at 3.7GHz) managed 1:24.  That means the IPC of Piledriver is barely on par for that of Phenom II's.  So I still fail to see how this bump in IPC will result in AMD CPU's being better than Sandy Bridge offerings.

Sources:
Piledriver IPC
Comparison Benchmark


----------



## cdawall (Sep 26, 2012)

xenocide said:


> But your claim was originally that the 15% IPC increase would put it on par for Intel offerings.  In that same Benchmark the i7-2600K (at 3.4GHz) clocks in at 1:03 compared to the PD-based CPU pulling 1:31 (at 3.8GHz).  I mean, hell, the Phenom II X4 980 (at 3.7GHz) managed 1:24.  That means the IPC of Piledriver is barely on par for that of Phenom II's.  So I still fail to see how this bump in IPC will result in AMD CPU's being better than Sandy Bridge offerings.
> 
> Sources:
> Piledriver IPC
> Comparison Benchmark



MOAREE SPEEEED


----------



## NeoXF (Sep 26, 2012)

I remember reading somewhere that Vishera scales way better with overclocking than Zambezi... AMD's claims on this where based on saying something like... a 200MHz overclock is a performance increase to Vishera what a 800MHz one is to Zambezi... but I don't have to mention how sketchy and interpretative that is.

Either way, anxious to see these new CPUs in action... from a first-grade source, that IMHO are hard to come by... and put some pressure on Intel (at least for us, on consumer level...).


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 26, 2012)

Heck about APUs, even the Stars Core based Llano was faster than Bulldozer. Then again what bulldozer moves fast anyway?

IPC comparison between BD Core and PD Core should be better when they are both clocked the same, whether in single thread or multi thread, and PD should be better than Stars Core.

I did notice that Comparisons have Core i at higher clocks than Core 2.


----------



## os2wiz (Sep 26, 2012)

*Figures don't lie, but liars sure can fgiure!*



xenocide said:


> But your claim was originally that the 15% IPC increase would put it on par for Intel offerings.  In that same Benchmark the i7-2600K (at 3.4GHz) clocks in at 1:03 compared to the PD-based CPU pulling 1:31 (at 3.8GHz).  I mean, hell, the Phenom II X4 980 (at 3.7GHz) managed 1:24.  That means the IPC of Piledriver is barely on par for that of Phenom II's.  So I still fail to see how this bump in IPC will result in AMD CPU's being better than Sandy Bridge offerings.
> 
> Sources:
> Piledriver IPC
> Comparison Benchmark



I think you are lying. Tom's Hardware tested the Trinity APU NOT Vishera. The Trinity APU has NO L3 cache unlike Vishera. Vishera was NOT tested since a release version was NOT available. The release version of Vishera has a reworked algorithm for the L3 cache to give improved performance over bulldozer, better branch prediction, and several other tweaks SO you are spreading the usual disinformation. The old saying is" figures don't lie , but liars sure know how to figure. Get thee to a nunnery fan boy.


----------



## nt300 (Sep 26, 2012)

NeoXF said:


> I remember reading somewhere that Vishera scales way better with overclocking than Zambezi... AMD's claims on this where based on saying something like... a 200MHz overclock is a performance increase to Vishera what a 800MHz one is to Zambezi... but I don't have to mention how sketchy and interpretative that is.
> 
> Either way, anxious to see these new CPUs in action... from a first-grade source, that IMHO are hard to come by... and put some pressure on Intel (at least for us, on consumer level...).


The 4th lilne down in the comments.
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/09/06/a-brief-look-at-amds-steamroller-core/
I don think the old 800MHz wuold equal the new 200Mhz, I can see maybe double that for the Piledrivers


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## xenocide (Sep 27, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> I think you are lying. Tom's Hardware tested the Trinity APU NOT Vishera. The Trinity APU has NO L3 cache unlike Vishera. Vishera was NOT tested since a release version was NOT available. The release version of Vishera has a reworked algorithm for the L3 cache to give improved performance over bulldozer, better branch prediction, and several other tweaks SO you are spreading the usual disinformation. The old saying is" figures don't lie , but liars sure know how to figure. Get thee to a nunnery fan boy.



L3 Cache will definitely boost performance, but not by much.  We're talking at best 5%.  I was basing it off the sources you yourself cited.  As for "reworked algorithm"s all I know is they claimed there was in issue with the latency of the L3 Cache, and that it had been addressed.  The bottom line is the PD-based Trinity APU performed 15% better clock for clock than a BD-based CPU (which had L3 Cache), but still was 33% slower than an Intel CPU at a lower clock speed.  There is absolutely no way the addition of L3 Cache will cover that gap.

I'm not spreading disinformation, I'm basing my statements off numbers.  Notice all of my statements are cited, and have actual numbers attached to them--yours are largely vague things you had heard or been told by AMD's marketting team (which anyone here can tell you is pretty loose with the facts).  I'm not an Intel or AMD Fan Boy, I want the best bang for my buck, and paying $280 for a CPU (FX-8150--although the cheaper 8120 was a much better buy) that barely edged out its predecessor (Phenom II X4/6) in anything but very heavily threaded tasks was not a great investment.  I want Piledriver to be great, but realistically it probably won't be as massive an improvement as people want--just like Bulldozer wasn't the massive improvement over Phenom II people wanted.


----------



## os2wiz (Sep 27, 2012)

*Why blame AMD for being ripped-off?*

I paid $239 for my FX-8150 3 weeks after launch at Amazon , Newegg had higher pricing with no availabilty so I went the Amazon route. I feel quite satisfied with my purchase and now I got good value. You overpaid and are not happy that i,s not AMD's fault it is yours for not shopping around. I am not a shootemup gamer, I dont like fascist, imperialist games. I only play strategy games and do real work on my computer. The FX is great for people who are not idiot gamers on roid rage and use the cpu for work intensive chores. That is where talented and skilled programmers thread their apps properly unlike the brain dead gaming programmers who have never heard of multithreading something that was in vogue in os/2 applicaftions
databases,games like Galactic Civilization which started as a multithreaded app on OS/2 Warp more than 16 years ago. It is obvious to me windoze programmers as a group play to the lowest common denominator and never up the the architecture of their apps to anywhere near where their potential lies. I really care less about those anti-working class fascist games and even less of the patriotic ass-kissers who play them.

 I paid $239QUOTE=xenocide;2731807]L3 Cache will definitely boost performance, but not by much.  We're talking at best 5%.  I was basing it off the sources you yourself cited.  As for "reworked algorithm"s all I know is they claimed there was in issue with the latency of the L3 Cache, and that it had been addressed.  The bottom line is the PD-based Trinity APU performed 15% better clock for clock than a BD-based CPU (which had L3 Cache), but still was 33% slower than an Intel CPU at a lower clock speed.  There is absolutely no way the addition of L3 Cache will cover that gap.

I'm not spreading disinformation, I'm basing my statements off numbers.  Notice all of my statements are cited, and have actual numbers attached to them--yours are largely vague things you had heard or been told by AMD's marketting team (which anyone here can tell you is pretty loose with the facts).  I'm not an Intel or AMD Fan Boy, I want the best bang for my buck, and paying $280 for a CPU (FX-8150--although the cheaper 8120 was a much better buy) that barely edged out its predecessor (Phenom II X4/6) in anything but very heavily threaded tasks was not a great investment.  I want Piledriver to be great, but realistically it probably won't be as massive an improvement as people want--just like Bulldozer wasn't the massive improvement over Phenom II people wanted.[/QUOTE]


----------



## HumanSmoke (Sep 27, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> I dont like fascist, imperialist games. I only play strategy games...I really care less about those anti-working class fascist games and even less of the patriotic ass-kissers who play them.


"_Fascism seeks to eradicate perceived foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture_" -The Anatomy of Fascism by Robert Paxton


os2wiz said:


> talented and skilled programmers thread their apps properly... games like Galactic Civilization


"_The goal of the game is to eventually *dominate the galaxy*. It is possible to achieve victory through *war, cultural domination*, diplomacy or by developing overwhelming advanced technology_" - Galactic Civilizations

Yeah. Real different.


----------



## Covert_Death (Sep 27, 2012)

lol burnnnnn


----------



## os2wiz (Sep 27, 2012)

*Yes it's war-like but NOt visceral. I can't enjoy seeing people butchered*



HumanSmoke said:


> "_Fascism seeks to eradicate perceived foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture_" -The Anatomy of Fascism by Robert Paxton
> 
> "_The goal of the game is to eventually *dominate the galaxy*. It is possible to achieve victory through *war, cultural domination*, diplomacy or by developing overwhelming advanced technology_" - Galactic Civilizations
> 
> Yeah. Real different.



Your right not real different, but certainly not as visceral as Call of Duty. I am anything but a pacifist, but I do not wish to desensitize myself to the horrors of war and especially imperialist wars which target civilian populations with drones and black ops. They are cutthroat murderers not heroes! They are willing mass murderers for Exxon-Mobil and the government which it and the banks control. 
  Capitalist culture is racist, xenophobic, sexist, and imperialist. There is no way around it. It's in the music, the movies, and in the lies our children are taught in school etc. Those games that are different are very few and far between. I do like Revolution Under Siege where you can fight to defend the workers' revolution in the Soviet Union during the 1919-1921 civil war , which in fact was an invasion by over a dozen European and American armies that ultimately  failed to topple the first worker's state in the history of the world. But that games is one in a million.
   Let's face it we live in the dictatorship of the capitalist class. The facade of elections is a joke. It's all been bought and paid for well before the candidates are chosen and even announce their campaigns. So in reality we can encourage and build worker's culture in a positive way , but in no way will we be able to supplant the dominant negative selfish culture until the capitalist states are smashed internationally. Then we can build a new culture of inclusiveness and egalitarianism.


----------



## os2wiz (Sep 27, 2012)

*I believe FX-8350 Piledriver will be competitive with a 2600k*



xenocide said:


> But your claim was originally that the 15% IPC increase would put it on par for Intel offerings.  In that same Benchmark the i7-2600K (at 3.4GHz) clocks in at 1:03 compared to the PD-based CPU pulling 1:31 (at 3.8GHz).  I mean, hell, the Phenom II X4 980 (at 3.7GHz) managed 1:24.  That means the IPC of Piledriver is barely on par for that of Phenom II's.  So I still fail to see how this bump in IPC will result in AMD CPU's being better than Sandy Bridge offerings.
> 
> Sources:
> Piledriver IPC
> Comparison Benchmark



 A lot of those performance blips are due to cacheing moisses do to poor branch prediction. That is supposed to be greatly improved in piledriver and I am eager to see those same tests after the release of the AMD FX-8350. I do thoink tyhreaded apps will see the Vishera product blow the 2600k out of the water and in gaming the results will be considerably tighter.  In actual gaming the differences will NOT be noticeable. If one gives 45-50 fps and the other 60fps the human eye will not be able to detect it.


----------



## nt300 (Sep 27, 2012)

There is a reason why AMD is keeping Vishera very quiet before the launch. The Trinity version already outperforms the Bulldozer in clock for clock comparison by about 15%. Vishera should do a lot better clock for clock by about 20% to 30%.

Toms hardware guide previewed and compared the FX 8150 at 3.80 GHz and 8 cores versua the A10-5800K that only has 4 cores and no L3 and not all the mods done to the Vishera. 
Vishera is looking like the best upgrade option for now, but I would like to see review s when they come out.


----------



## Frick (Sep 27, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> A lot of those performance blips are due to cacheing moisses do to poor branch prediction. That is supposed to be greatly improved in piledriver and I am eager to see those same tests after the release of the AMD FX-8350. I do thoink tyhreaded apps will see the Vishera product blow the 2600k out of the water and in gaming the results will be considerably tighter.  In actual gaming the differences will NOT be noticeable. If one gives 45-50 fps and the other 60fps the human eye will not be able to detect it.



If this happens I eat my hat. If I had a hat.


----------



## Dent1 (Sep 27, 2012)

Frick said:


> If this happens I eat my hat. If I had a hat.



Me too. I apart from the odd benchmark I doubt Piledriver is going to blow the 2600k out the water. At best slightly slower on average.


----------



## nt300 (Sep 27, 2012)

Dent1 said:


> Me too. I apart from the odd benchmark I doubt Piledriver is going to blow the 2600k out the water. At best slightly slower on average.


Get ready to eat a nice big hat


----------



## Frick (Sep 27, 2012)

nt300 said:


> Get ready to eat a nice big hat



We can only hope.


----------



## remixedcat (Sep 27, 2012)

Hmmmm I was looking to go with Intel for my next build but the prices are preventing me... this could be a possibility... I got 650 saved up so far for my new build.... I'm even more anxious now! 

Should I get this or wait even longer???


----------



## erocker (Sep 27, 2012)

nt300 said:


> Get ready to eat a nice big hat



One thing I've learned from these Bulldozer, Piledriver, etc. threads is not to believe anything about upcoming CPU's from you or SuperXP.

Believe me though, I want AMD to succeed, but every bit of pertinent information tells me that nothing "great" will be coming from AMD in the CPU market for quite some time.


----------



## TRWOV (Sep 27, 2012)

I don't think that AMD actually stated that Piledriver would see a 15% improvement in IPC, if I recall correctly. 

They said Piledriver would see a 15% improvement in throughput but that doesn't necessarily mean +15% IPC.  They could mean performance/watt or performance/dollar and their statement would be true:

FX-8150 $245 125w TDP 3.6Ghz = $68/Ghz 34w/Ghz
FX-8350 $250?? (I don't know if this is MSRP or not) 125w TDP 4.0Ghz = $62/Ghz 31w/Ghz ~15% improvement in perf/watt  ~10% improvement in perf/dollar


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## Steevo (Sep 27, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> I only play strategy games and do real work on my computer.
> 
> 
> The FX is great for people who are not idiot gamers on roid rage and use the cpu for work intensive chores.



Is your "real work" somehow different than the F@H that many others here run, or other compute intensive work?


All I have seen out of you in this thread, that you joined to post in. 


Is calling another member a liar for posting information that doesn't agree with your ideas.
Double posting.
Making baseless and false statements about "real work".
And the ever present red herring.


Congrats.


----------



## HumanSmoke (Sep 27, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> imperialist wars...drones and black ops....mass murderers for Exxon-Mobil and the government which it and the banks control....[ TL; DC ]...


 
I'll admit you had me going there for a while....well played!. Intel troll masquerading as a larger-than-life delusional ranting AMD fanboy with only a tenuous grip on reality.

This *IS* a case of reverse psychology..._isn't it_?


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## os2wiz (Sep 27, 2012)

*Vishera Performance Improvement*



TRWOV said:


> I don't think that AMD actually stated that Piledriver would see a 15% improvement in IPC, if I recall correctly.
> 
> They said Piledriver would see a 15% improvement in throughput but that doesn't necessarily mean +15% IPC.  They could mean performance/watt or performance/dollar and their statement would be true:
> 
> ...



NO they definitely stated 15% IPC improvement.


----------



## Super XP (Sep 27, 2012)

erocker said:


> One thing I've learned from these Bulldozer, Piledriver, etc. threads is not to believe anything about upcoming CPU's from you or SuperXP.
> 
> Believe me though, I want AMD to succeed, but every bit of pertinent information tells me that nothing "great" will be coming from AMD in the CPU market for quite some time.


Hey WHAT? Thought I heard my name 

Nothing wrong with a little speculation. And when there is facts, I present them with links.


os2wiz said:


> NO they definitely stated 15% IPC improvement.


Link?
Thanks,


----------



## os2wiz (Sep 27, 2012)

*Liar?*



Steevo said:


> Is your "real work" somehow different than the F@H that many others here run, or other compute intensive work?
> 
> 
> All I have seen out of you in this thread, that you joined to post in.
> ...


Never said he was a liar but he definitely lied and I stated that. He could be the most honest person in the world in all other regards but he did NOT present facts he cpnjured up statements that bore no resemblance to the same benchmark results I and hundreds of others had seen in the past year.  I know bulldozer did NOT do as well as expected in those benchmarks , but he exaggerated the findings to fit his unbridled hatred of AMD products. In most tests they were competitive, in single threaded games they were not.
I do believe that in most game tests Vishera will be in the running against a 2600k even if a little behind the 2600K. In most non-gaming benchmarks I believe it will blow away  the 2600k.  
      I do a little Photoshop, a lot of word documents with photos, mostly leaflets to organize the working class for rebellion against the financial crisis and the rotten capitalist system. I am not an IT professional and I do not think one must be one to advocate intelligently for good hardware and software. I know moist gaming software is poorly designed and could potentially use multi-threading if the designers and companies had a desire to produce a superior product. They are lazy and making too much money, too easily of an ill-informed public. I am passionate and through my labor and student organizing skills and speech making over the years I know how to in a minimum of word cut through the bull and get to the salient points.  I may offend some but that is not my object. My objective is to get to the objective truth. Now I am no shill for AMD, they are corporate and could well be lying about things .But I do know what they said and I do know the difference between smoke and mirrors and reality  If the piledriver release is a promise not met I won't buy it and I will call them out on it   If it is an improvement worthy of being called a next generation product I will  buy it and advocate for it.


----------



## Super XP (Sep 27, 2012)

Let's get back to topic os2wiz. No need to explain yourself bro 
Piledriver will soon enough prove itself as an improvement over Bulldozer under AMD's new management team. 

Even at a higher clock rate, that would be great, so long as it runs at lower or equal volts than Bulldozer.


----------



## Steevo (Sep 27, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> Never said he was a liar





os2wiz said:


> I think you are lying.





I like you, you are funny.


----------



## xenocide (Sep 27, 2012)

I should start bashing Intel products more often; then I could say whatever I wanted without getting it deleted.  As for Piledriver, I read someone (nt300 I think) say there was a reason they were keeping it hushed, implying it was because its performance was a sizable improvement.  It's important to remember AMD did the same thing with Bulldozer, so I don't buy into that theory too much.  I hope AMD makes me eat my words, because on the CPU side of things--aside from APU's for laptops--I have not been too impressed since I replaced my Athlon 64 X2...



Steevo said:


> I like you, you are funny.



Meh.  It's clear he has differing opinions, I respect his right to that and choose to ignore what he posts unless its relevant to the conversation at this point.


----------



## Super XP (Sep 27, 2012)

Yes AMD did fabulous marketing with Bulldozer. That awesome high clocked 8 core magic processor that performed as well as a mouses fart. Yes I know, AMD now has a better management team. Though I do find it interesting that they are not talking much about Vishera? We shall see soon enough


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## xenocide (Sep 28, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Yes AMD did fabulous marketing with Bulldozer. That awesome high clocked 8 core magic processor that performed as well as a mouses fart. Yes I know, AMD now has a better management team. Though I do find it interesting that they are not talking much about Vishera? We shall see soon enough



I don't believe their marketting team or strategy has really changed all that much since the management change.  I have spoken plenty about Vishera, but whenever I bring up that it's improvements are less than a million fold people accuse me of lying despite sources saying otherwise and I'm just tiring of arguing about it.  I think Vishera will be what Bulldozer should have been, and hopefully corrects a lot of the awful issues BD suffered from (reported high cache latency, unusually high power consumption for many users, poorly handled scheduling, etc.).

P.S.  That question mark is grammatically incorrect since you're not asking a question; rather making a statement.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 28, 2012)

xenocide said:


> I don't believe their marketting team or strategy has really changed all that much since the management change.  I have spoken plenty about Vishera, but whenever I bring up that it's improvements are less than a million fold people accuse me of lying despite sources saying otherwise and I'm just tiring of arguing about it.  I think Vishera will be what Bulldozer should have been, and hopefully corrects a lot of the awful issues BD suffered from (reported high cache latency, unusually high power consumption for many users, poorly handled scheduling, etc.).
> 
> P.S.  That question mark is grammatically incorrect since you're not asking a question; rather making a statement.



This i agree with. We can only hope the improvements allow for the chip to run cooler be faster in single and multi thread apps and draws less power than BD across the PD lineup


----------



## SIGSEGV (Sep 28, 2012)

sometimes i want to ask you people who already compared amd and intel cpu, have you tried to play the games, or working with fx or bulldozer cpu? does this bulldozer cpu already make you suffering a lot while you're on gaming and working? i already tried to compare using fx8150, intel i5 2500k and intel i7 2600k with gtx680 on real gaming and working apps, i didn't see any differences using those chips except an unrealistic of benchmark numbers from benchmark apps.
personally i want the upcoming amd's piledriver can draw less power, cheaper price compared to competitor, and maybe can perform better on benchmark apps .


----------



## erocker (Sep 28, 2012)

SIGSEGV said:


> sometimes i want to ask you people who already compared amd and intel cpu



Yes I have. I had a 8150 and a Crosshair V. Multi GPU gaming wasn't even close to what the other company has to offer (2500K at the time). Gaming benchmarks from various review sites (using actual games) show the same results.


----------



## os2wiz (Sep 28, 2012)

*a Lie does not always make one a liar*



Steevo said:


> I like you, you are funny.



I agree I said he was lying because he misrepresented the benchmark results. I do not think he is a liar. A liar is somebody who repeatedly tells falsehoods and is conscious of that. A person can tell one lie and that doesn't make him a liar. We are all human.  Sometimes in the heat of argument people say things they later realize they did not mean. It happerns to all of us. I just hope that one doesn't make it an every day practice.


----------



## cdawall (Sep 28, 2012)

SIGSEGV said:


> sometimes i want to ask you people who already compared amd and intel cpu, have you tried to play the games, or working with fx or bulldozer cpu? does this bulldozer cpu already make you suffering a lot while you're on gaming and working? i already tried to compare using fx8150, intel i5 2500k and intel i7 2600k with gtx680 on real gaming and working apps, i didn't see any differences using those chips except an unrealistic of benchmark numbers from benchmark apps.
> personally i want the upcoming amd's piledriver can draw less power, cheaper price compared to competitor, and maybe can perform better on benchmark apps .



My ancient Xeon 3440 beats thuban and bulldozer in every game I tried. Mind you I am probably one of he most consistent AMD purchasers around. I skipped bulldozer. I tried it on a couple of friends rigs and laughed as my lower end card rendered more fps when coupled to a phenom x4@4 while he ran his bd@4.3.

Bulldozer sucked it was one of the biggest let downs I have seen in my lifetime in computers. The idea is great parallel computing is awesome. AMD however needs to step up their game for it to catch on. The server market is already turning ears towards bulldozer it works well with the correct programs. Give them a few mind you I said a few more generations and we will see some shoe exchanging. Intel has had it happen to them on multiple occasions AMD innovates and Intel copies.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Sep 28, 2012)

erocker said:


> Yes I have. I had a 8150 and a Crosshair V. Multi GPU gaming wasn't even close to what the other company has to offer (2500K at the time). Gaming benchmarks from various review sites (using actual games) show the same results.



thanks, i haven't ever used multi gpu setup on my FX8150 (with ASRock 990fx extreme4) so i couldn't say much about that, but i did it on my phenom ii x4 955 BE with cf hd 6870 in the past.


----------



## TRWOV (Sep 28, 2012)

xenocide said:


> I don't believe their marketting team or strategy has really changed all that much since the management change.  I have spoken plenty about Vishera, but whenever I bring up that it's improvements are less than a million fold people accuse me of lying despite sources saying otherwise and I'm just tiring of arguing about it.  I think Vishera will be what Bulldozer should have been, and hopefully corrects a lot of the awful issues BD suffered from (reported high cache latency, unusually high power consumption for many users, poorly handled scheduling, etc.).
> 
> P.S.  That question mark is grammatically incorrect since you're not asking a question; rather making a statement.


 

If I recall correctly there were Bulldozer shortages even months after the reviews hit, why wouldn't the same occur with Piledriver being a better product and all that? (rhetorical question, not directed at you BTW) 

I don't think that good marketing matters for AMD; it's not like they could just churn out an extra million of CPUs every month even if the demand was there. And they always sell out. People might want them to be present in every tier but does AMD want that too? Why did AMD become fabless in the first place?


----------



## os2wiz (Sep 28, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Let's get back to topic os2wiz. No need to explain yourself bro
> Piledriver will soon enough prove itself as an improvement over Bulldozer under AMD's new management team.
> 
> Even at a higher clock rate, that would be great, so long as it runs at lower or equal volts than Bulldozer.



Thank you and solidarity greetings with the Greek working class.



TRWOV said:


> If I recall correctly there were Bulldozer shortages even months after the reviews hit, why wouldn't the same occur with Piledriver being a better product and all that? (rhetorical question, not directed at you BTW)
> 
> I don't think that good marketing matters for AMD; it's not like they could just churn out an extra million of CPUs every month even if the demand was there. And they always sell out. People might want them to be present in every tier but does AMD want that too? Why did AMD become fabless in the first place?



Now that is objective and constructive criticism that I can relate to and accept. The trolling and baiting that some people indulge in is ridiculous though. Let us all maintain some level of intellectual honesty and respect and we will all get a lot more positives out of this forum. I appreciate your post.


----------



## Super XP (Sep 28, 2012)

xenocide said:


> P.S.  That question mark is grammatically incorrect since you're not asking a question; rather making a statement.


Yes, my tablet sometimes auto finishes words for me but sometimes adds stuff like?!/) for some reason. I didn't pick up on that.      ? In time


----------



## xenocide (Sep 28, 2012)

SIGSEGV said:


> sometimes i want to ask you people who already compared amd and intel cpu, have you tried to play the games, or working with fx or bulldozer cpu? does this bulldozer cpu already make you suffering a lot while you're on gaming and working? i already tried to compare using fx8150, intel i5 2500k and intel i7 2600k with gtx680 on real gaming and working apps, i didn't see any differences using those chips except an unrealistic of benchmark numbers from benchmark apps.



I've seen (on Tom's Hardware) and heard (around TPU) that AMD CPU's tend to be a bottleneck for Multi-GPU setups a lot quicker than Intel's offerings.  I don't much care for SLi\Crossfire, so it's not a huge concern for me.  I can definitely say going from my Q6600 to an i5-2500K made a huge difference for me in a lot of games, even with the same GPU.  My only conclusion is that my HD5850 was being bottlenecked, so the CPU can matter a lot more than most people are ever willing to admit.

I would imagine the difference between rendering something in 1 hour rather than 1 hour and 20 minutes isn't a huge deal for most people.  I would never say BD was completely unusable, in fact it did pretty well for certain programs, but in my mind there was not enough reason to get it over Intel's offerings at the time.



cdawall said:


> My ancient Xeon 3440 beats thuban and bulldozer in every game I tried. Mind you I am probably one of he most consistent AMD purchasers around. I skipped bulldozer. I tried it on a couple of friends rigs and laughed as my lower end card rendered more fps when coupled to a phenom x4@4 while he ran his bd@4.3.
> 
> Bulldozer sucked it was one of the biggest let downs I have seen in my lifetime in computers. The idea is great parallel computing is awesome. AMD however needs to step up their game for it to catch on. The server market is already turning ears towards bulldozer it works well with the correct programs. Give them a few mind you I said a few more generations and we will see some shoe exchanging. Intel has had it happen to them on multiple occasions AMD innovates and Intel copies.



There were a lot of situations where Phenom II was better than Bulldozer (especially of the 4xxx and 6xxx variant).  Phenom II had the higher IPC, so with the same number of 'cores' Phenom II performed better clock for clock.  It was only really when optimizing new instruction sets that this wasn't true.  It also depends greatly on the game, obviously certain games are way more CPU dependent--primarily RTS and MMO's.

Parallel Computing is definitely the future, but it's a slow progression because software developers are slow to support increased numbers of cores as it would require an increase in development costs.  As for the innovation, AMD definitely innovated a lot, their implementation of x86-64 was definitely the smarter move.  The way I see it historically AMD introduces new concepts but Intel really executes them.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 28, 2012)

erocker said:


> Yes I have. I had a 8150 and a Crosshair V. Multi GPU gaming wasn't even close to what the other company has to offer (2500K at the time). Gaming benchmarks from various review sites (using actual games) show the same results.



respectfully ,your an exception(ie that you did actually bother to try it out ) rather then the norm ,and multi Gpu puts you in a smaller bracket yet again, so your sumary and experiance might not best fit another users experiance even at that time, not a dig just saying.


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## Super XP (Sep 28, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> Thank you and solidarity greetings with the Greek working class.
> 
> Now that is objective and constructive criticism that I can relate to and accept. The trolling and baiting that some people indulge in is ridiculous though. Let us all maintain some level of intellectual honesty and respect and we will all get a lot more positives out of this forum. I appreciate your post.


Thanks, we Greeks always seem to find a way to excellence


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## Horrux (Sep 28, 2012)

erocker said:


> Yes I have. I had a 8150 and a Crosshair V. Multi GPU gaming wasn't even close to what the other company has to offer (2500K at the time). Gaming benchmarks from various review sites (using actual games) show the same results.



I can report the same, but with an added twist: I use to run crossfire with Radeons on my X6 1100t rig, which went very well, then when I replaced those with Geforces (even on a SLI-compatible motherboard), I had tons of trouble and could not get any real performance increase over a single geforce, but instead got lots of performance issues. Then I changed my mobo/RAM/cpu for intel and things have been flying.

From my experience, I deduced that multi-GPU with video cards built around nVidia GPUs works a lot less well with AMD systems than those built around AMD GPUs. If history is any guide, intel has paid nVidia a fortune to make that happen... Now I'm not saying that is the case, I'm just saying Intel has such a history of monopolistic, illegal, rotten, evil business practices, that it wouldn't surprise me overly if such were the case.

Either way, using multiple GPUs will tend to move the bottleneck from the (single) GPU to the CPU, so that's where the CPU's power becomes more relevant.

It remains that in my case, it wasn't simply a situation where the second GTX 570 didn't add any performance, it just made everything stutter like complete madness.


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## os2wiz (Sep 28, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Thanks, we Greeks always seem to find a way to excellence



Now if you can develop a REAL revolutionary party then maybe you can throw out the oligarchs from the EU banks-Merkels "miracle workers"


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## cdawall (Sep 28, 2012)

Horrux said:


> I can report the same, but with an added twist: I use to run crossfire with Radeons on my X6 1100t rig, which went very well, then when I replaced those with Geforces (even on a SLI-compatible motherboard), I had tons of trouble and could not get any real performance increase over a single geforce, but instead got lots of performance issues. Then I changed my mobo/RAM/cpu for intel and things have been flying.
> 
> From my experience, I deduced that multi-GPU with video cards built around nVidia GPUs works a lot less well with AMD systems than those built around AMD GPUs. If history is any guide, intel has paid nVidia a fortune to make that happen... Now I'm not saying that is the case, I'm just saying Intel has such a history of monopolistic, illegal, rotten, evil business practices, that it wouldn't surprise me overly if such were the case.
> 
> ...



Mine has none of those issues could have been an AMD mobo issues with drivers or BIOS.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 28, 2012)

Rumours abound Am3+ is still going to be used for steamroller too, happy days

to above and bellow  posts, i cant vouch for  nvidia on Amd as i havent used it but i have xfired on Amd(this) and intel  platforms with minimal issues(mostly app specific) for years now and the main thing xfire users need to know is AFR on,,, this brings a near doubleing of fps in all but nvidia optimised games and metro 2033 but is the most crashy


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## Horrux (Sep 28, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Mine has none of those issues could have been an AMD mobo issues with drivers or BIOS.



Might, we'll never know. All I know is I first tried with an ASUS M4A79 Deluxe, which isn't SLI certified, using patched drivers. With old, then new BIOS. Then with a newer mobo, a high end MSI that had USB3, with stock, then new BIOS. Then I just gave up.


----------



## erocker (Sep 28, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Piledriver finally got Benchmarked
> My sisters, husbands, best friends mothers boyfriends school teacher confirms this. For now I am taking this information with a grain of SALT



Don't post useless posts. It accomplishes nothing.


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## 1d10t (Sep 29, 2012)

SIGSEGV said:


> sometimes i want to ask you people who already compared amd and intel cpu, have you tried to play the games, or working with fx or bulldozer cpu? does this bulldozer cpu already make you suffering a lot while you're on gaming and working? i already tried to compare using fx8150, intel i5 2500k and intel i7 2600k with gtx680 on real gaming and working apps, i didn't see any differences using those chips except an unrealistic of benchmark numbers from benchmark apps.
> personally i want the upcoming amd's piledriver can draw less power, cheaper price compared to competitor, and maybe can perform better on benchmark apps .



just reminds me of my co-worker friend.he just switch thuban to sandy-bridge platforms.his jobs mainly to draw 2D,editing small clips of video,and represented them in beautifully presentation.and he wonder why "_those lag_" is still persist although he "made a good decision".
then he came to my workshop and tries my computer.6 hours torturing my computer,and he just comment "did you use highly overclocked ivy-bridge?" 



erocker said:


> Yes I have. I had a 8150 and a Crosshair V. Multi GPU gaming wasn't even close to what the other company has to offer (2500K at the time). Gaming benchmarks from various review sites (using actual games) show the same results.



all-in-all,if you crossfire'd or sli'ed high-end GPU,the choice was obvious.
but when it came to mainstream,i.e my system with just two HD7850,there's is no noticeable different with highly overclocked 2600k + GTX 680 @1080p gaming


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## symmetrical (Sep 29, 2012)

SIGSEGV said:


> sometimes i want to ask you people who already compared amd and intel cpu, have you tried to play the games, or working with fx or bulldozer cpu? does this bulldozer cpu already make you suffering a lot while you're on gaming and working? i already tried to compare using fx8150, intel i5 2500k and intel i7 2600k with gtx680 on real gaming and working apps, i didn't see any differences using those chips except an unrealistic of benchmark numbers from benchmark apps.
> personally i want the upcoming amd's piledriver can draw less power, cheaper price compared to competitor, and maybe can perform better on benchmark apps .



I used to have an FX-8120, certain games like Starcraft 2 and even Bad Company 2 I used to suffer from frame dips to as low as 40fps in BC2 and 30fps in SC2. After I got my 2600K, everything was locked 60fps with v-sync. Although SC2 is a worse case scenario for Bulldozer seeing as how it only utilizes 2 threads. Other games like Operation Flashpoint barely hit 45fps while the i7 was 60fps locked with zero dips. There are a bunch of other games that the FX-8120 bottlenecked my GTX 580 at the time and god knows it would bottleneck my current GTX 680. 

I also extract a lot of .rar files and do a lot of video conversion with handbrake. The i7 was dramatically faster in extraction and compression. Although I do say the FX-8120 was great in Handbrake and overclocked it was the same as the i7. As for photo editing, it would be hard to tell a difference.

Gaming though Bulldozer really does suck though in comparison. If you REALLY cant wrap your head around that, then take a look at some of the Borderlands 2 CPU scaling benchmarks or the Multi-GPU benchmarks (tweaktown.com) There are tons and tons of proven benchmarks that aren't just "bars and graphs" that prove this. It really DOES just suck and is behind even the Phenom II.

However I will note that everybody's gaming experience will be based on their own standards. Some people will be fine with 30fps and claim they see no difference with 60fps (probably need their eyes checked)


----------



## NeoXF (Sep 29, 2012)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Rumours abound Am3+ is still going to be used for steamroller too, happy days
> 
> to above and bellow  posts, i cant vouch for  nvidia on Amd as i havent used it but i have xfired on Amd(this) and intel  platforms with minimal issues(mostly app specific) for years now and the main thing xfire users need to know is AFR on,,, this brings a near doubleing of fps in all but nvidia optimised games and metro 2033 but is the most crashy



Since they implied that FM2 socket will support at least ONE future APU generation, and that being the Steamroller one... and FM2 being very similar to FM1, which in turn is very similar to AM3/AM3+... I can see how it's all but certain performance Steamroller will be on AM3+ as well. Which is good... if they can muster the performance they're boasting on that age old platform... as well as that they'll be more compelled to change it afterwards for Excavator (old age/obsolescence, DDR4, maybe a need to unify APU and enthusiast platforms etc).


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## Super XP (Sep 29, 2012)

*Remember This:*







Looks like AMD cut and paste with full concentration on Steamroller. This pic would have been accurate if Bulldozer delivered.


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## Horrux (Sep 29, 2012)

I feel the need to add something about frequencies. Many on here are pounding on the table about how frequencies aren't everything. True, they are far from everything. However, for most of CPU history, every generation was clocked significantly higher than the previous. Then, roughly ten (10) years ago, Intel reached a weird "frequency ceiling" at 3.4ghz with the 130nm Northwood and Gallatin P4's. Since then, and IT HAS BEEN TEN YEARS, CPUs haven't been clocked higher than that for stock speeds.

Except for AMD's FX series, which will presently have 4ghz stock parts. Perhaps AMD has found a way to get those clockspeeds ratcheting up again and for the significant future, and I don't mean by going with a speedracer architecture, which is what Netbust was. Granted, the FX's longer pipeline is a step in that direction, but a step isn't the whole way...

AMD has produced extremely cool-running CPUs with no cold bug in the Phenom II. It is possible they studied that and came to some more general conclusions about heat and frequency and maybe, just MAYBE, AMD has found ways to have climbing frequencies again... Just like in the old days. They surprised the world with the A-64. They can do it again.


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## Super XP (Sep 29, 2012)

CPU Frequencies only matter if the CPU Architecture is well built and efficient, then every single clock increase would count. We should see this with Excavator sometime in 2014. (Fingers Crossed)


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## Super XP (Oct 4, 2012)




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## Horrux (Oct 5, 2012)

When are they hitting the shops again? I can't wait for the actual benches...


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## nt300 (Oct 5, 2012)

It safe to say Vishera refresh will also come at around Q2 2013. These will be Steamroller cores right. So Piledriver look like it is short lived. Good move from AMD. Desktop Steamroller may be my next upgrade 


> AMD has already officially confirmed that *Trinity refresh in 2013 *comes in the new 28nm process and we found out that the current schedule for *Richland processor is late Q2 2013 launch.*


http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/28986-amd-richland-uses-fm2-socket


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## os2wiz (Oct 5, 2012)

*Possible Wrong Presumption*



nt300 said:


> It safe to say Vishera refresh will also come at around Q2 2013. These will be Steamroller cores right. So Piledriver look like it is short lived. Good move from AMD. Desktop Steamroller may be my next upgrade
> 
> http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/28986-amd-richland-uses-fm2-socket



I am fairly sure the 2nd quarter Richland is a refresh of Piledriver not Steamroller which will be late 2013 or early 2014. Quote any recent AMD release to prove me wrong.


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## Daimus (Oct 5, 2012)

@Super XP
Nice table but FX-6200 is missing


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## Super XP (Oct 8, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> I am fairly sure the 2nd quarter Richland is a refresh of Piledriver not Steamroller which will be late 2013 or early 2014. Quote any recent AMD release to prove me wrong.


Piledriver coming this October, I think 3rd week or the last week. Then in Q2 2013 or earlier, Steamroller is set to completely replace Bulldozer and Piledriver.

Trinity will be the last APU that will use Bulldozer's design structure. This has been repeated live several times from AMD employees within technology events. 2014 comes Excavator. 

AMD already stated and was posted within the forums many times, they are accelerating Steamroller so they can completely replace Bulldozer/Piledriver. 




Daimus said:


> @Super XP
> Nice table but FX-6200 is missing


Oh, I got that from X-Bit Labs. Perhaps that CPU will follow shortly after.

Steamroller Release Info Links:
The architecture is still slated to debut in 2013 on GlobalFoundries' 28nm bulk process. The improvements look good on paper, but the real question remains whether or not Steamroller will be enough to go up against Haswell.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6201/amd-details-its-3rd-gen-steamroller-architecture/2
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Proces...amroller-Slightly-Better-Focus#comment-196142


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## Daimus (Oct 8, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Oh, I got that from X-Bit Labs. Perhaps that CPU will follow shortly after.



It had already been released in six months ago. Shame on X-Bit Labs...:shadedshu


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## os2wiz (Oct 8, 2012)

Now I know you are definitely wrong.  Trinity is not Bulldozer design structure , it is Piledriver cores in Trinity. I can't see them replacing Trinity in only 7-8 months production cycle. Unless the 2013 refresh is simply going to the 28nm  process primarily for productivity increases, not many new design features. I could be wrong, but I would not be surprised if that 2nd quarter steamroller is not put off to the third or 4th quarter of 2013.  That however is only for steamroller apu production. Steamroller for FX non-apu is not coming until 2014. In spite of the bull crap claims, that AMD has abandoned performance cpus for the desktop in favor of APU's, there will be an FX steamroller with L3 cache in 2014. That is of course if AMD can execute their turnaround plan. I really detest the ignorant fluff that the pro-Intel droids like OBR constantly dribble out to create FUD. Fear, uncertainty, doubt the tools of speculators not analysts.  Works well in the Wall Street environment so the billionaires can maintain and expand their hegemony( monopolistic control) of markets. Note there is NO and never has been a free market economy since the days of the Standard Oil trust era. Now back on target, the FUD of these cynical bastards is in service to Intel so they can further monopolize the cpu market and ruin their competitors, not through simply being a better, more efficient producer, but by leveraging their control of the market to strong arm customers into de-emphasizing and and giving no market space for competition. Intel just did this with PC producers in violation of anti-trust laws, but Congress, the presidency , and the courts have been bought off by corporate power and money. This is NOT a Democrat vs Republican issue , it is an issue that exposes that we do NOT live in a democracy, but rather a dictatorship of the capitalist class. It is a democracy for billionaires and a dictatorship pretty much for everyone else. Of course those billionaires have a feeding trough for their loyal police protectors, and for their managers that serve their interests. I say about 8% of the population globally benefits from the capitalist dictatorship and 92% are victims. I went from the the particular to the general to make a point. From computers to jobs, to shopping for food, to living as a "consumer" it is all a part of the bosses' game. Some day soon this will all come to an end. But only through organization and dogged determination. It is a 20-30 year process for world revolution. I promise no more on this front. It just was a natural progression from viewing what is happening in the technology sector and connecting the dots .


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## os2wiz (Oct 8, 2012)

Steamroller Release Info Links:


The architecture is still slated to debut in 2013 on GlobalFoundries' 28nm bulk process. The improvements look good on paper, but the real question remains whether or not Steamroller will be enough to go up against Haswell.

  Well, Hasbeen will undoubtedly arrive a LOT later than Intel projects. Reducing the 22nm further is a big head ache. I see Steamroller coming out on 28 nm and being reduced to 24 nm before Hasbeen releases.


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## Super XP (Oct 8, 2012)

With all due respect, I said "Trinity will be the last APU that will use Bulldozer's design structure." 
Piledriver is based on Bulldozer's design structure. 
Steamroller leaves this design structure by way of modifications to the core architecture. 
Excavator (Rumoured) is said to be completely modified and if shown side by side with Bulldozer, they would greatly differ. 

So I say again, 
Trinity will be the last APU that will use Bulldozer's design structure.


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## os2wiz (Oct 8, 2012)

Super XP said:


> With all due respect, I said "Trinity will be the last APU that will use Bulldozer's design structure."
> Piledriver is based on Bulldozer's design structure.
> Steamroller leaves this design structure by way of modifications to the core architecture.
> Excavator (Rumoured) is said to be completely modified and if shown side by side with Bulldozer, they would greatly differ.
> ...



Thanks for being respectful, because my oddled brain did not see the word APU, although it was obviously there. It happens with chronic sleep deprivation  Thanks for NOT ripping my head off.


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## Super XP (Oct 9, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> Thanks for being respectful, because my oddled brain did not see the word APU, although it was obviously there. It happens with chronic sleep deprivation  Thanks for NOT ripping my head off.


No problem, though I enjoyed reading your lengthy post. Your quote about cynical bastards just got me  off my chair. Very nice.


> Now back on target, the FUD of these cynical bastards is in service to Intel so they can further monopolize the cpu market


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## xenocide (Oct 9, 2012)

I cannot believe I read that whole post... the only point worth addressing is your claim that "cynical bastards" are always claiming AMD won't produce a top-end CPU to compete with Intel.  That is based off a quote from an AMD higher up (possibly the CEO) saying they were going to ignore competing with Intel at the highest end (in terms of cost and bleeding edge performance) and concentrate on things like low-cost acceptable performance solutions (APU's) and reasonably powerful mid-range solutions (FX).  I think they realized that they had nothing to compete with Sandy Bridge-E and rather than force out some line with miniscule profit margins just gave up to play to their strengths.


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## os2wiz (Oct 9, 2012)

I wrote the whole post it's unfortunate you had difficulty reading it which was whole lot easier than writing it. You obvious are not from the working class or you would "get it".  Do you think AMD can produce for $240 a cpu that can beat cpus ' costing two and three times as much and have double the L1 L2 and L3 cache sizing .  Their designs are based on what is feasible cost-wise at the mid-200's range. When they can achieve greater market penetration at that level then they can move on to higher level cpu's. That is NOT likely anytime soon. The wintel monopoly has been going on for years now with the blessing of the whorish politicians and judges they own. Tell me how many judges in cases involving Intel and Microsoft have shares in both companies. Many of them. Did one recuse themselves from hearing their law suits who owned stock in the two monopolists? NOT a single one. That is exactly why these criminal enterprises, which should be prosecuted under Rico statutes, continue to get a free ride on our backs with their overpriced products. And I only have one valid point? Get out of here! Get thee to a nunnery!


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## Steevo (Oct 9, 2012)

Horse--> stick.

I see what you did there.......


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 9, 2012)

I dont see AMD competing at this time, but honestly i dont care. Steamroller arch is probably going to be diff from BD/PD anyway.


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## xenocide (Oct 9, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> I wrote the whole post it's unfortunate you had difficulty reading it which was whole lot easier than writing it. You obvious are not from the working class or you would "get it".



I hope this isn't directed towards me, or I might have to unleash the Kraken...



os2wiz said:


> Do you think AMD can produce for $240 a cpu that can beat cpus ' costing two and three times as much and have double the L1 L2 and L3 cache sizing .  Their designs are based on what is feasible cost-wise at the mid-200's range. When they can achieve greater market penetration at that level then they can move on to higher level cpu's. That is NOT likely anytime soon.



That was exactly my point.  It was cost-prohibitive for them to keep sinking money into the niche top tier of CPU's where Intel consistantly beats them.  From a business perspective they were playing to their strengths and increasing focus and resources on the products they had that were selling great already; low and mid-range CPU's and APU's.



os2wiz said:


> The wintel monopoly has been going on for years now with the blessing of the whorish politicians and judges they own. Tell me how many judges in cases involving Intel and Microsoft have shares in both companies. Many of them. Did one recuse themselves from hearing their law suits who owned stock in the two monopolists? NOT a single one. That is exactly why these criminal enterprises, which should be prosecuted under Rico statutes, continue to get a free ride on our backs with their overpriced products. And I only have one valid point? Get out of here! Get thee to a nunnery!



Judges lack of recusal isn't exclusive to the Tech Industry.  I think there does need to be more oversight to ensure that judges don't have some kind of direct or indirect gain from the outcome of cases which they preside over, but that is a problem with the 'game', not the 'players'.  As for stock ownership, it's hard to find a lot of portfolios that don't include stock in companies like Microsoft.  They are one of those "safety" companies that investors dump money into because the risk is so low.  I doubt any of the judges short sold metric fucktons of stock to turn huge profits--the SEC would have pressed charges immediately.

Also, RICO was not designed for something like that.  You'd have a hard time getting a RICO case against multiple corporations in multiple fields without concrete evidence that they all colluded with one another.  Something like the "resetting" of Hard Drive prices could possibly be packaged as a RICO case, but nothing like what Intel and Microsoft do.

Only one of your points was valid because only one of them related to what we're supposed to be talking about.  This is a Tech Enthusiast forum, if you want to preach about Macroeconomics, Political Affiliations, and the Justice System, go elsewhere.


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## os2wiz (Oct 9, 2012)

My point exactly : the game is rigged. Capitalism is rigged to always screw the working class as well. The system MUST be destroyed. removing the nominal leader through elections, assasination, whatever does Not
change anything. The game and its rules must be changed not through useless reform but rather through transformational revolution where the basis of society is reorganized in an egalitarian fashion with empowerment of the working class in the centers of production andthe whole of society including its mass culture. The culture of exploitation must be replaced with a culture of collective responsibility.






xenocide said:


> I hope this isn't directed towards me, or I might have to unleash the Kraken...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 9, 2012)

xenocide said:


> I hope this isn't directed towards me, or I might have to unleash the Kraken...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



RICO certainly does apply the trouble is gathering the evidence and witnesses. The perncious tentacles of these corporate entities extends not only into the political class but into the security apparatus as well. Not a chance in hell such a case would see daylight if some determined prosecutors pursued it. They would be stymied at every turn and be executed by a contracted hit if nithing else could stop them. CApitalist power is a very dirty ballgame and nothing including the use of nukes to prevent revolution would be precluded to keep their control of the state and production.
  Of course they have one serious chink in their armor. They need workers to produce and profit and the soldiers are mostly working class. The military can be infiltrated and penetrated by serious organized working class youth. They can andwill turn their guns around at the apprpriate time of mass revolutionary consciousness. It happened in Russia nd in China, it can happen again.  I realize this is all off-topic but perhaps an intriguing respite from the overkill of the cpu wars. .Nice talking to you.


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## Horrux (Oct 9, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> RICO certainly does apply the trouble is gathering the evidence and witnesses. The perncious tentacles of these corporate entities extends not only into the political class but into the security apparatus as well. Not a chance in hell such a case would see daylight if some determined prosecutors pursued it. They would be stymied at every turn and be executed by a contracted hit if nithing else could stop them. CApitalist power is a very dirty ballgame and nothing including the use of nukes to prevent revolution would be precluded to keep their control of the state and production.
> Of course they have one serious chink in their armor. They need workers to produce and profit and the soldiers are mostly working class. The military can be infiltrated and penetrated by serious organized working class youth. They can andwill turn their guns around at the apprpriate time of mass revolutionary consciousness. It happened in Russia nd in China, it can happen again.  I realize this is all off-topic but perhaps an intriguing respite from the overkill of the cpu wars. .Nice talking to you.



You are quite right os2wiz. HOWEVER, and I'm using capitals for a reason, this tyranny of capitalism, this system of enslavement, works through many channels: not only through having made a rigged system of relatively inescapable working class status, but also through the invasion of media in order to maintain the masses psychologically stuck in a state of fear of non-survival. 

Debt is also a huge tool they use for the enslavement of the masses. As such, this tyranny is not only economical but psychological, and as such, the people will not rise up in masses to change things. The average Joe is barely making ends meet but he is comfortable enough, contrary to Russia and China. TV and other time sink entertainments make sure he doesn't think about all this stuff, no, the establishment provides ample ways to keep their minds turned off.

Between the pressure to perform at work and "be productive", the economic pressure to make ends meet, the mind-anesthesia or state of fear provided by the media, and the encouragement to BELIEVE, which is the contrary to critical thought, there is very little left of the hardy, independent, self-driven desire for true freedom that would enable such a rise.

I don't think it will happen. We're on our own.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 9, 2012)

Ok back on topic please


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## Fatal1ty39 (Oct 9, 2012)

http://wccftech.com/amd-fx-vishera-processors-bring-7improvement/


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## os2wiz (Oct 9, 2012)

Horrux said:


> You are quite right os2wiz. HOWEVER, and I'm using capitals for a reason, this tyranny of capitalism, this system of enslavement, works through many channels: not only through having made a rigged system of relatively inescapable working class status, but also through the invasion of media in order to maintain the masses psychologically stuck in a state of fear of non-survival.
> 
> Debt is also a huge tool they use for the enslavement of the masses. As such, this tyranny is not only economical but psychological, and as such, the people will not rise up in masses to change things. The average Joe is barely making ends meet but he is comfortable enough, contrary to Russia and China. TV and other time sink entertainments make sure he doesn't think about all this stuff, no, the establishment provides ample ways to keep their minds turned off.
> 
> ...




Good points. But even the media which tends to put the thinking mind to sleep has a honeycomb nests of workers in it. Yes most live in fear now. They are NOT happy and not so many are patriots any more. They are in survival mode. They want an alternative that will work and is real. They do not see it yet. An organized dedicated party can reaqch them. Like I said it before this is a generational struggle. It most likely will take 20-30 years to build. But remember this is a world with quantum leaps in it. Once the work is done in an area , no matter how small for a significant period of time.The recruits few at first can lead to a qualitative state- a breakthrough. Think in physics terms like boiling water that starts cold from the tap. You see little of anything until it approaches 100degrees centigrade. Then it starts slowly to boil and in a couple of minutes it boils rapidly. That is dialectical materialism where quantity goes into quality. It is true of everything in nature including human society. I have seen small breakthroughs in our strike work. We recruited 4 workers from a small bakery that had a one year strike against the Wall Street takeover firm that bought it out. They demanded wage cuts and health and pension cuts. CVut holiday time in half. The workers striked and went nowhere. They brought in replacement workers. but they were of poor training and the product was not of the same quality. Not one original worker crossed the picket line, not one of 122. We through our work in the unions brought supporters to their line every day.We met them in their homes, developed a relationship with them .Gave them our party press and met with them to discuss the ideas. We raised money for food for them to supplement the inadequate union strike fund. We marched through the community with them many times. They joined. They were from all countries, one from Africa, one from Greece, several from Latin America. As a result we had a boost to our work overseas as well. Our party press is in over 28 countries in all five continents. Still small. Hundreds in Pakistan, dozens in Europe, a few hundred in Mexico, Central America, and South America, and handful on the African continent. All aided from one strike where careful and determined work was done. Some undoubtedly will not be in it for the long haul. It is a rough and treacherous road to haul. But so is life  under capitalism. It always has surprises for us some good most not. The workers won the strike and the company brand was sold to a non-union bakery. The NY plant was closed everyone lost their job. So that is an example of the quantum leap that is one of the laws of dialectical materialism. I am an optimist I have been in this struggle since 20 years of age some 43 years ago. It has has lead to several incarcerations for me mostly when I wasin university and a couple shortly after univeristy. Now I have been arrested for aiding a struggle against hospital cutbacks and closure in Brooklyn. They are cutting care severely in a black and Latino section of my borough. Have some misdemeanors such as trespass and disorderly conduct to fight. I will survive the fight and we will triumph. I survived a heart attack last year caused by my bosses. Eventually I had to retire because of that. But not before I helped organize a work stoppage in my radiology department. 27 people including 5 doctors and 22 workers from my hospital attended my retirement parety. They gave speeches and showed much appreciation for my efforts. If they only understood I am a product of the collective of dedicated party workers in the health field. Yes I sacrificed on their behalf partly to set an example for them to overcome their fears. I now have a network of readers in the hospital. It is not dependent on my presence to survive.That is a small but vital accomplishment.
     I gave you guys a vignette into my life. As you can see all is not rosy, but the sweetness of progress no matter how small must be savored and used to have the will to carry on and develop younger leadership to advance the work.
 Keep the chin up, fight cynicism, a defeatist tool the bosses culture uses to breed inactivity. I know with my health I am unlikely to see the grand change. I have confidence my 26 year old son will.


----------



## erocker (Oct 9, 2012)

Back on topic. I needn't remind anyone again in this thread.


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 9, 2012)

*Back on topic*

Sorry for the lapse. Once in a while we get to really see a side of us as human beings. I love that.
You are right enough is enough. Thanks for your understanding an giving us a little breathing room to express a little of ourselves as human beings.


----------



## Horrux (Oct 9, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> Sorry for the lapse. Once in a while we get to really see a side of us as human beings. I love that.
> You are right enough is enough. Thanks for your understanding an giving us a little breathing room to express a little of ourselves as human beings.



You really should learn to make paragraphs though. It's not hard: press enter a couple times.


----------



## xenocide (Oct 10, 2012)

Fatal1ty39 said:


> http://wccftech.com/amd-fx-vishera-processors-bring-7improvement/



I don't know if I'd agree with the claim that it will be on-par with Sandy Bridge.  I imagine it will be a lot like BD was, where if the CPU can max out threads, it will do slightly better, but if it's 4/2/1 thread SB will still beat it handily.  Logically that difference will put it on par for the IPC of Phenom II, which was still lower than Intel offerings.


----------



## cdawall (Oct 10, 2012)

Fatal1ty39 said:


> http://wccftech.com/amd-fx-vishera-processors-bring-7improvement/





> Taking in account the 7% IPC improvement and 7% Core clock bump, the second generation AMD FX-Vishera would most likely end up being faster than the Intel Sandy Bridge processors if not the Ivy bridge.



Well that is a bit of a reach if I do say so...


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 10, 2012)

xenocide said:


> I don't know if I'd agree with the claim that it will be on-par with Sandy Bridge.  I imagine it will be a lot like BD was, where if the CPU can max out threads, it will do slightly better, but if it's 4/2/1 thread SB will still beat it handily.  Logically that difference will put it on par for the IPC of Phenom II, which was still lower than Intel offerings.



Till its launched we dont know, Single Thread IPC needs to increase, be ready for Todays apps and tomorrows is the game...



Horrux said:


> You really should learn to make paragraphs though. It's not hard: press enter a couple times.



lets not instigate fights here, there is enough of that in the world we live in, we dont need it here.


cdawall 1+


----------



## Horrux (Oct 10, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> lets not instigate fights here, there is enough of that in the world we live in, we dont need it here.
> 
> 
> cdawall 1+



Not fighting, just telling him how to post the interesting stuff he writes in a format that people are going to be able to read better. He seemed puzzled when someone said they "somehow managed to read the entire thing" so I thought I would offer some writing advice... I will admit I was a bit sarcastic, and for that I apologize.


----------



## xenocide (Oct 10, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> Till its launched we dont know, Single Thread IPC needs to increase, be ready for Todays apps and tomorrows is the game...



Of course, but like I said, the per thread performance on Bulldozer was so far back I just don't see it catching up to Intel.  Maybe if they crank the clock speeds through the roof, but SB isn't too bad at overclocking in the same vein


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 10, 2012)

By the way the report that FX-8350 has an increase in clock speed over Bulldozer FX-8150 of 7% is flat out incorrect. Simple computation shows .4 GHZ/ 3.6 GHZ = 11%  not 7% as attributed to the AMD nerd rep who did an interview for Tiger Direct. What a horribly incompetent marketing team.  To underrate your own product by 4% is ridiculous. So 11% plus the 7% increase in IPC translates into an 18% performance increase. I would have wanted another 3-4% but it is not chump change.  I will upgrade but am particularly looking forward to the FX steamroller cpu in another year


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 10, 2012)

xenocide said:


> Of course, but like I said, the per thread performance on Bulldozer was so far back I just don't see it catching up to Intel.  Maybe if they crank the clock speeds through the roof, but SB isn't too bad at overclocking in the same vein



We realize that, PD is a stop gap thus far, I mean I recall AMD focusing on SR, so i can only guess SR is a reworked design


----------



## xorbe (Oct 11, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> By the way the report that FX-8350 has an increase in clock speed over Bulldozer FX-8150 of 7% is flat out incorrect. Simple computation shows .4 GHZ/ 3.6 GHZ = 11%  not 7% as attributed to the AMD nerd rep who did an interview for Tiger Direct. What a horribly incompetent marketing team.  To underrate your own product by 4% is ridiculous. So 11% plus the 7% increase in IPC translates into an 18% performance increase. I would have wanted another 3-4% but it is not chump change.  I will upgrade but am particularly looking forward to the FX steamroller cpu in another year



But when at max turbo, then they are on equal MHz, so the average freq improvement is probably less than 11%.


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 11, 2012)

xenocide said:


> Of course, but like I said, the per thread performance on Bulldozer was so far back I just don't see it catching up to Intel.  Maybe if they crank the clock speeds through the roof, but SB isn't too bad at overclocking in the same vein


 
Correct but with the 18% performance improvement  over Bulldozer I expect the Vishera cpu to rate between the 2500k and the 2600k , closer to the 2600k overall than to the 2500k.
 It is  a definite improvement with the bigger one coming the end of next year when steamroller FX rolls out. I expect Steamroller to be better than 2600k and its IVY bridge successor I7 3570.


----------



## xenocide (Oct 11, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> Correct but with the 18% performance improvement  over Bulldozer I expect the Vishera cpu to rate between the 2500k and the 2600k , closer to the 2600k overall than to the 2500k.
> It is  a definite improvement with the bigger one coming the end of next year when steamroller FX rolls out. I expect Steamroller to be better than 2600k and its IVY bridge successor I7 3570.



It will probably be close, of course all the above solutions are overkill for the average consumer, but we are mostly "enthusiasts" around here.  I have no doubt Steamroller will close the gap, but that won't be around until after Haswell if memory serves correctly, so AMD will still be a bit behind--especially if Haswell is the type of improvement SB was.


----------



## cdawall (Oct 11, 2012)

It also depends how computing goes. If everything remains the same haswell's monolithic core design will likely win. However if more apps support AMD's design then all hats are off.


----------



## Horrux (Oct 11, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> By the way the report that FX-8350 has an increase in clock speed over Bulldozer FX-8150 of 7% is flat out incorrect. Simple computation shows .4 GHZ/ 3.6 GHZ = 11%  not 7% as attributed to the AMD nerd rep who did an interview for Tiger Direct. What a horribly incompetent marketing team.  To underrate your own product by 4% is ridiculous. So 11% plus the 7% increase in IPC translates into an 18% performance increase. I would have wanted another 3-4% but it is not chump change.  I will upgrade but am particularly looking forward to the FX steamroller cpu in another year



Actually, in theory if the scaling is linear, it's 18.77%, so round it to 19%.


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 11, 2012)

xenocide said:


> It will probably be close, of course all the above solutions are overkill for the average consumer, but we are mostly "enthusiasts" around here.  I have no doubt Steamroller will close the gap, but that won't be around until after Haswell if memory serves correctly, so AMD will still be a bit behind--especially if Haswell is the type of improvement SB was.



Hasbeen,wannabee  will be late in my opinion. It is a major headache going from 22nm ptocess down to 18nm. It could be another 18 months or longer before Hasbeen surfaces.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 11, 2012)

ya know what lets keep this on topic, enuf of the pointless arguing and bashing of a product over the other, if you cant play nice leave


----------



## suraswami (Oct 11, 2012)

God damn AMD, why can't you just release this damn CPU and this fight will be over, ofcourse another bashing will start


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 11, 2012)

*on topic*



eidairaman1 said:


> ya know what lets keep this on topic, enuf of the pointless arguing and bashing of a product over the other, if you cant play nice leave



I do believe we are all on topic now. Discussing relative merits or flaws of the processors. Even with my new moniker for Haswell I clearly brought up a real issue. Reduction of process when yo are already down to 22nm is very difficult time wise and very costly. Every one always states wait until this next Intel product comes out. That has the effect of freezing the market and making it more difficult for AMD to claw its way back to respectable and more formiddable market share. That is why I did the hasbeen moniker to not so much to mock but to criticize projects that are not very likely to surface when Intel says they will. I do not see that kind of problem for AMD. There only concern is to keep themselves afloat financially until their newer designs make it to market.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 11, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> I do believe we are all on topic now. Discussing relative merits or flaws of the processors. Even with my new moniker for Haswell I clearly brought up a real issue. Reduction of process when yo are already down to 22nm is very difficult time wise and very costly. Every one always states wait until this next Intel product comes out. That has the effect of freezing the market and making it more difficult for AMD to claw its way back to respectable and more formiddable market share. That is why I did the hasbeen moniker to not so much to mock but to criticize projects that are not very likely to surface when Intel says they will. I do not see that kind of problem for AMD. There only concern is to keep themselves afloat financially until their newer designs make it to market.



how about making a separate topic to discuss in there then


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## Fatal1ty39 (Oct 11, 2012)

AMD FX-8350 Retail Performance:
http://www.obr-hardware.com/2012/10/amd-fx-8350-retail-performance.html


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## Steevo (Oct 11, 2012)

So I have to wait till October 23rd to get new server hardware eh?


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## os2wiz (Oct 12, 2012)

Fatal1ty39 said:


> AMD FX-8350 Retail Performance:
> http://www.obr-hardware.com/2012/10/amd-fx-8350-retail-performance.html



Who gave OBR the expertise to set up appropraite benchmarks. Notice he came up with some average that is impossible to verify and understand.


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## os2wiz (Oct 12, 2012)

If the clown was serious and objective he would have issued thew sores on each test individually. He did not . I think he is a predjudiced stupid clown.


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## Fatal1ty39 (Oct 12, 2012)

someone is selling the AMD FX-8350 with water cooling on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170921648780


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## nt300 (Oct 12, 2012)

For over $300 plus the shiping and handling  I'll wait for retail and see.


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## Fatal1ty39 (Oct 13, 2012)

benchmarks AMD FX-8350:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1722207


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 13, 2012)

i wouldnt trust anything till NDA is lifted and besides that guy is probably selling a fake chip so


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## Super XP (Oct 13, 2012)

Fatal1ty39 said:


> benchmarks AMD FX-8350:
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1722207


Not sure if this is real or not, but what's with the CPUID saying it's a Zambezi? That should say Vishera.
Also synthetic benchmarks used always caters to Intel powered CPU's.


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## xenocide (Oct 13, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Not sure if this is real or not, but what's with the CPUID saying it's a Zambezi? That should say Vishera.
> Also synthetic benchmarks used always caters to Intel powered CPU's.



CPU-Z hasn't been publicly updated to reflect the new chips.


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## Pehla (Oct 14, 2012)

even on the picture of cpu it says it manufactured in 2011!!
i cant belive anyone would by cpu from not trusty source,even before its in retail stores!!


----------



## erocker (Oct 14, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Not sure if this is real or not, but what's with the CPUID saying it's a Zambezi? That should say Vishera.
> Also synthetic benchmarks used always caters to Intel powered CPU's.



Pretty sure it's real. Most actual applications seem to be catered to Intel CPU's as well, though that's really not the case.


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 14, 2012)

AI AI AI AI AI!!!


and that is all I will say. 

subb'ed.


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## erocker (Oct 14, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> AI AI AI AI AI!!!
> 
> 
> and that is all I will say.
> ...



It has AI?! No wai!!


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 14, 2012)

erocker said:


> Pretty sure it's real. Most actual applications seem to be catered to Intel CPU's as well, though that's really not the case.



I think with ther new windows 8 scheduler all 8 cores of the AMD FX-8000 series will receive 2 threads. Even with the fix it was only threads for 4 cores. This should improve performance  considerably in many applications.  I say wait 2 weeks and when both the FX-8350 and windows 8 are both available we will be able to see the dust settle and real improvements on benchmarks can be measured a little more accurately as long as the benchmarks reflect the real activities people use their cpus for and are weighted accordingly.  I play a game that is a about 3 years old now called Galactic Civilizations II. It is a turned-based strategy game like Civilization for outer space.  I know that gamer is multi-threaded extensively as Brad Wardell first developed the game for the os/2 platform and detailed the multi-threading in it. I noticed serious improvement in performance on that game when I installed the FX-8150 cpu as an upgrade from my old AMD Phenom II 955 cpu.  I play that game with a huge universe with many planets. It stretches the cpu when its does the upgrades and changes for each turn.I know this cpu is a lot better than what it is given credit for , in spite of all its weaknesses.
  By the way, as you suggested, I loosened the timings on my Ripjaws-X 2133 memory modules . So far all is well. I upped the cpu core voltage to 1.45 and actually lowered my cpu-northbridge voltage fro 1.375 to 1.3315 volts. No blue screens since I made these changes. I had previously lowered the cpu frequency to 4.0GHZ hoping for less crashes , but That did not work. Now since all these adjustments I have raised it to 4.4 GHZ with no problems for the past 4 days. I am also upgrading my cpu cooler from an H60 to an H100 so those temps will stay low during game play and testing.  It should arrive Wednesday. My order to BLT for FX-8350 I suspect will take 3 weeks until fulfillment.


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## xenocide (Oct 14, 2012)

The scheduler problem was that it would send 2 threads through 1 module instead of through 2 separate modules.  They fixed it so 4 threads would use 4 modules instead of 4 cores, and it barely made a difference.


----------



## Am* (Oct 14, 2012)

If the Trinity benchmarks are anything to go by, this is going to be the Bulldozer done right the same way the Phenom II was the Phenom done right. So long as the performance per watt is improved (which Trinity benchmarks ALSO suggest), these are going to sell and compete well, which in turn should give Intel a rightful kick up the backside in getting Haswell out of the door for desktops.

Good luck AMD, and here's hoping the final products reflect this.


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## Horrux (Oct 14, 2012)

erocker said:


> Pretty sure it's real. Most actual applications seem to be catered to Intel CPU's as well, though that's really not the case.



See my signature.


----------



## Super XP (Oct 14, 2012)

Who's planning on getting a Piledriver 8-Core for a Phenom II/Bulldozer upgrade? I hear with enhancements, tweaks and higher clock speed combined should offer approx: 20% - 30% performance improvement over current Bulldozer, but not sure in a clock for clock comparison. 
If the price is right and the performance boost is fair, I may night


----------



## Norton (Oct 14, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Who's planning on getting a Piledriver 8-Core for a Phenom II/Bulldozer upgrade? I hear with enhancements, tweaks and higher clock speed combined should offer approx: 20% - 30% performance improvement over current Bulldozer, but not sure in a clock for clock comparison.
> If the price is right and the performance boost is fair, I may night



I don't know- not sure if I like AMD.....

looks at signature  --


----------



## xBruce88x (Oct 14, 2012)

Your such an intel fanboy


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## Horrux (Oct 15, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Who's planning on getting a Piledriver 8-Core for a Phenom II/Bulldozer upgrade? I hear with enhancements, tweaks and higher clock speed combined should offer approx: 20% - 30% performance improvement over current Bulldozer, but not sure in a clock for clock comparison.
> If the price is right and the performance boost is fair, I may night



I definitely think so, as my secondary gaming rig is getting a little bit underpowered with a Phenom II X4 965 and incidentally, a GTX 460 768mb on an AM3+ mobo. I think a FX-8350 with a Radeon 7970 will upgrade it nicely, keeping the GTX for PhysX. 

I hate AMD too...


----------



## Melvis (Oct 15, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Who's planning on getting a Piledriver 8-Core for a Phenom II/Bulldozer upgrade? I hear with enhancements, tweaks and higher clock speed combined should offer approx: 20% - 30% performance improvement over current Bulldozer, but not sure in a clock for clock comparison.
> If the price is right and the performance boost is fair, I may night



Me!! IF the performance is there, otherwise ill be getting a faster PII

I help off for Bulldozer and we all know how that went so ive held off another yr to see how PD will go, so here is hoping this time around its what i was hoping for.


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## xenocide (Oct 15, 2012)

Super XP said:


> 20% - 30% performance improvement over current Bulldozer, but not sure in a clock for clock comparison.



That number seems to grow every day.


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 15, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Who's planning on getting a Piledriver 8-Core for a Phenom II/Bulldozer upgrade? I hear with enhancements, tweaks and higher clock speed combined should offer approx: 20% - 30% performance improvement over current Bulldozer, but not sure in a clock for clock comparison.
> If the price is right and the performance boost is fair, I may night



My friend I ordered an FX-8350 from BLT for 208.90 US on Saturday. I also ordered a Corsair H100 , an upgrade from my H60. I also ordered Windows 8 Pro Upgrade as It may offer improved scheduling of threads for the AMD 8 core processors . I actually think it may be wise to hold back benchmarking on these babes until you can do it on a windows 8 machine. We will see soon enough of course. I doubt 20-30% improvement, more likely 12-15% on a Windows 8 system. I of course will benchmark with turbo disabled, as it is an unfair disadvantage for a FX processor ,at least in a windows 7 environmnent where it only recognizes 4 cores, out of the 8 available.


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## os2wiz (Oct 15, 2012)

Pehla said:


> even on the picture of cpu it says it manufactured in 2011!!
> i cant belive anyone would by cpu from not trusty source,even before its in retail stores!!



That is the patent date not the manufacture date.


----------



## cdawall (Oct 15, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> That is the patent date not the manufacture date.



X2







1229 would be the 29th week of 2012 ie July 16th through July 22


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 15, 2012)

All I wanna know is "N" or "T" pcb.


----------



## cdawall (Oct 15, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> All I wanna know is "N" or "T" pcb.









That would be an N.



PCP not PCB buddy


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 15, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> All I wanna know is "N" or "T" pcb.



Could you please relate to me which variation of peyote or enhanced MaryJane you are using.


----------



## cadaveca (Oct 15, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> Could you please relate to me which variation of peyote or enhanced MaryJane you are using.



meh. Just some thing I've been following for oh...10 years or so.  Doesn't seem to matter with all CPUs, but AMD outs two PCBs currently that I know of, one marked witth a "T", and one marked with an "N".

Does it really matter? To normal people, no.


To those that search for the "golden egg" chips out in the wild for extreme clocking, minute differences in CPU manufacturing, including dates and such things, can seem to be important.

If AMD is smart, I personally believe they stand to benefit from opening up informationally a bit about their binning process, or even salting certain "batches" as needed.


Alas, I'd like to partake in discussion of the topic at hand, but cannot, so there ya go.


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 15, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> meh. Just some thing I've been following for oh...10 years or so.  Doesn't seem to matter with all CPUs, but AMD outs two PCBs currently that I know of, one marked witth a "T", and one marked with an "N".
> 
> Does it really matter? To normal people, no.
> 
> ...



NDA  no doubt!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 16, 2012)

It was the Same during the Athlon XP days too, after week 39 of 2003 Desktop CPUs were being locked, Mobile chips were the way to go for most part. Fastest AXP Chips clocked to 2.8-3.0GHz under high voltage, no LN2 Used either



cadaveca said:


> meh. Just some thing I've been following for oh...10 years or so.  Doesn't seem to matter with all CPUs, but AMD outs two PCBs currently that I know of, one marked witth a "T", and one marked with an "N".
> 
> Does it really matter? To normal people, no.
> 
> ...


----------



## Super XP (Oct 16, 2012)

Vishera prices have gone down?
http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/s.cgi?order_id=!ORDERID!&s_max=25&t_all=1&s_all=HKBOX

If this is true, why did AMD drop the prices B4 the release? Or these were always the price and the original leak was overpriced for early adopters.


----------



## Covert_Death (Oct 16, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Vishera prices have gone down?
> http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/s.cgi?order_id=!ORDERID!&s_max=25&t_all=1&s_all=HKBOX
> 
> If this is true, why did AMD drop the prices B4 the release? Or these were always the price and the original leak was overpriced for early adopters.



208 for the 8350..... now we are talking


----------



## Horrux (Oct 16, 2012)

Aren't we just a few days out from Piledriver release? Anyone seen any benchies?

Also... This doesn't bode too too well: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2217049/amd-is-preparing-to-lay-off-thousands


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 16, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Vishera prices have gone down?
> http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/s.cgi?order_id=!ORDERID!&s_max=25&t_all=1&s_all=HKBOX
> 
> If this is true, why did AMD drop the prices B4 the release? Or these were always the price and the original leak was overpriced for early adopters.



AMD has nothing to do with pre-order pricing. Most of the places taking pre-orders are scalping their customers.  I guess BLT.com decided they could make money the honest way.  This is nothing new. The retailers did it with Bulldozer also. Though the p[rice at bltcom is way lower then the price Bulldozer was at even 3 months after product availability. I think AMD knew they could not get away with selling Vishera at prices above what a Intel I5 3570 was going for when its performance overall will be slightly below that level. It is priced at the level of a I-5 2500k which is a good spot for it. Overall it performs a little better than I-5 2500k in my opinion.


----------



## suraswami (Oct 16, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Vishera prices have gone down?
> http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/s.cgi?order_id=!ORDERID!&s_max=25&t_all=1&s_all=HKBOX
> 
> If this is true, why did AMD drop the prices B4 the release? Or these were always the price and the original leak was overpriced for early adopters.



hmm 8320 looks attractive for $182.

hopefully there is BF sale @ Frys or MC for under $100 (I would rather hope it's at MC, Frys is crap these days).


----------



## Super XP (Oct 17, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> AMD has nothing to do with pre-order pricing. Most of the places taking pre-orders are scalping their customers.  I guess BLT.com decided they could make money the honest way.  This is nothing new. The retailers did it with Bulldozer also. Though the p[rice at bltcom is way lower then the price Bulldozer was at even 3 months after product availability. I think AMD knew they could not get away with selling Vishera at prices above what a Intel I5 3570 was going for when its performance overall will be slightly below that level. It is priced at the level of a I-5 2500k which is a good spot for it. Overall it performs a little better than I-5 2500k in my opinion.


Yes but so long as AMD is making a profit. If they sell these at the right price, they will easily gain market share. Intel may have a faster product, but AMD's parts run just as good. This is where AMD needs to fight with.


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 17, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Yes but so long as AMD is making a profit. If they sell these at the right price, they will easily gain market share. Intel may have a faster product, but AMD's parts run just as good. This is where AMD needs to fight with.



  You are absolutely right. They will have a thin margin on this product though. It would have been more gravy for them with a .28nm fabrication process.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Oct 17, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> AMD has nothing to do with pre-order pricing. Most of the places taking pre-orders are scalping their customers.  I guess BLT.com decided they could make money the honest way.  This is nothing new. The retailers did it with Bulldozer also. Though the p[rice at bltcom is way lower then the price Bulldozer was at even 3 months after product availability. I think AMD knew they could not get away with selling Vishera at prices above what a Intel I5 3570 was going for when its performance overall will be slightly below that level. It is priced at the level of a I-5 2500k which is a good spot for it. Overall it performs a little better than I-5 2500k in my opinion.



reason MSRP is there from AMD is so AMD makes a profit, Retailers/etailers tag on additional unit pricing to make a profit themselves, hey they have to be able to otherwise they go out of business then


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## os2wiz (Oct 17, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> reason MSRP is there from AMD is so AMD makes a profit, Retailers/etailers tag on additional unit pricing to make a profit themselves, hey they have to be able to otherwise they go out of business then



MSRP is what most retailers sell the item at it usually provides about 15-20% profit margin for the retailer.


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## Horrux (Oct 18, 2012)

I know this is about steamroller, but wasn't piledriver supposed to be released today?


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## NC37 (Oct 18, 2012)

Thought I caught somewhere it was held off till the 23rd.


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## Super XP (Oct 18, 2012)

NC37 said:


> Thought I caught somewhere it was held off till the 23rd.


Yes you are correct. These delays do really suck though.


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## os2wiz (Oct 18, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Yes you are correct. These delays do really suck though.



I do not think that was a delay date. AMD never actually officially announced the launch date.
But I have heard October 23 for the past month with others claiming the 16th but with no credible proof of their claim.


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## os2wiz (Oct 18, 2012)

I truly believe this pricing , if it allows some profit, will be great for AMD getting market share. Very good strategy if they can push the chip. I do hope they have a large enough budget to get the word out.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> I truly believe this pricing , if it allows some profit, will be great for AMD getting market share. Very good strategy if they can push the chip. I do hope they have a large enough budget to get the word out.



this will be really pushed to OEMs, APUs too


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## Super XP (Oct 19, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> I do not think that was a delay date. AMD never actually officially announced the launch date.
> But I have heard October 23 for the past month with others claiming the 16th but with no credible proof of their claim.


Originally Piledriver was suppose to be released in Q3 2012, but was pushed back to Q4 2012. But that was a while back. Things have changed


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## os2wiz (Oct 19, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Originally Piledriver was suppose to be released in Q3 2012, but was pushed back to Q4 2012. But that was a while back. Things have changed



Yes of course. I was referring to in the past 2 months AMD never publicly stated a launch date, though it appears it will be this Tuesday the 23rd.


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## Horrux (Oct 21, 2012)

AMD's secrecy makes me nervous. Some people say Vishera will work well with Windows 8, but then there is this.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 21, 2012)

Horrux said:


> AMD's secrecy makes me nervous. Some people say Vishera will work well with Windows 8, but then there is this.



its the UI that is getting alot of people, making most not want to switch.


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## Horrux (Oct 21, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> its the UI that is getting alot of people, making most not want to switch.



You can read too, nice.


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## xBruce88x (Oct 21, 2012)

that was a bit uncalled for... :shadedshu


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## Super XP (Oct 22, 2012)

Horrux said:


> AMD's secrecy makes me nervous. Some people say Vishera will work well with Windows 8, but then there is this.


I don't like my desktop to look like a tablet, it will give me the urge to swipe my Asus LED up and down with my finger  No really, I don't know what Micro$oft is thinking, but they should at least have the option to make Windows 8 look like Windows 7 on Desktops and notebooks/netbooks IMO. If not I am sticking with my Windows 7 x64 

Anyhow, any news on the new AMD FX-8320/50 releases? It's soon according to rumours that have stated October 22, 2012 to October 23, 2012.



> AMD plans to formally unwrap its long-awaited performance chip code-named Vishera on the 23th of October , according to a source.


http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20120921231354_AMD_Sets_the_FX_Vishera_Launch_Date.html


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 22, 2012)

Horrux said:


> You can read too, nice.



seems to be the biggest thing amongst many tech sites actually, people are sayin what was MS thinking? Yes i open links to know what people are talking about actually. But seriously though this is about the Vishera right now not Windows 8...


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## os2wiz (Oct 22, 2012)

Super XP said:


> I don't like my desktop to look like a tablet, it will give me the urge to swipe my Asus LED up and down with my finger  No really, I don't know what Micro$oft is thinking, but they should at least have the option to make Windows 8 look like Windows 7 on Desktops and notebooks/netbooks IMO. If not I am sticking with my Windows 7 x64
> 
> Anyhow, any news on the new AMD FX-8320/50 releases? It's soon according to rumours that have stated October 22, 2012 to October 23, 2012.
> 
> ...



 I know we are ALL eager. But man maybe your LOGO should be changed from SuperXP to SuperCharged. I would be shocked if it is NOT on the 23rd at this point. I am not sure why AMD has NOT given a date , is this the way Bulldozer was released?


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## Super XP (Oct 22, 2012)

Yes, I believe so. Bulldozer had rumoured release dates up until AMD made it official.


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## Horrux (Oct 22, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Yes, I believe so. Bulldozer had rumoured release dates up until AMD made it official.



It was also rumored to have Intel-crushing performance...


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## os2wiz (Oct 22, 2012)

Horrux said:


> It was also rumored to have Intel-crushing performance...


 Are you saying the reliability of the rumored 10/23/12 release is on the same par as rumored performance claims of Bulldozer , which came not from AMD, but hopeful AMD users as well?
  I think you are definitely treading in dangerous waters if that is what you are saying. Or perhaps you enjoy playing the "class clown" role?


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## nt300 (Oct 22, 2012)

Horrux said:


> It was also rumored to have Intel-crushing performance...


Maybe niot the Piledriver but the Steamroller yes I think so.


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## Horrux (Oct 22, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> Are you saying the reliability of the rumored 10/23/12 release is on the same par as rumored performance claims of Bulldozer , which came not from AMD, but hopeful AMD users as well?
> I think you are definitely treading in dangerous waters if that is what you are saying. Or perhaps you enjoy playing the "class clown" role?



No, I'm just stating that rumors are nothing but rumors and can easily be wrong by a mile.


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## cadaveca (Oct 22, 2012)

Horrux said:


> No, I'm just stating that rumors are nothing but rumors and can easily be wrong by a mile.



Ah, but this is the internet, and that was supposed to be true of everything on the intarwebz...until people started to lose their jobs over Facebook posts. 


:shadedshu


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## xenocide (Oct 22, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> rumored performance claims of Bulldozer , which came not from AMD, but hopeful AMD users as well?



AMD _accidentally_ leaked a series of slides showing the FX-8xxx CPU's would _dominate_ the EE Nahalem CPU's in across the board in gaming.  The slides were from their big quarterly marketing meeting with investors; they may not have said it to the public, but they were themselves trying to tell their investors that Bulldozer had Intel-Dominating Performance.


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## Fatal1ty39 (Oct 22, 2012)

AMD FX-8350 Linux Benchmarks:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_fx8350_vishera&num=1


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 22, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Ah, but this is the internet, and that was supposed to be true of everything on the intarwebz...until people started to lose their jobs over Facebook posts.
> 
> 
> :shadedshu



 BURN 

till TPU gets the parts in, rest mean nothing


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## Norton (Oct 23, 2012)

BLT website shows FX-6300 in stock for $142.66 (150 units currently in stock) 
*in-stock ETA on the other Vishera's is 11/3 
Link:
http://www.shopblt.com/item/amd-fx-6300-6c-processor-am3/amd_fd6300wmhkbox.html


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## Fatal1ty39 (Oct 23, 2012)

AMD FX8350 and FX8320 in stock newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113284&name=Processors-Desktops

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113285&name=Processors-Desktops


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## cadaveca (Oct 23, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> till TPU gets the parts in, rest mean nothing




I did, several weeks ago.









Fatal1ty39 said:


> AMD FX8350 and FX8320 in stock newegg:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113284&name=Processors-Desktops
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113285&name=Processors-Desktops



oh boy.


Thread is now useless, since it's on newegg, I guess.


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## Norton (Oct 23, 2012)

Any reviews out there yet???

EDIT- NewEgg has the whole lineup:
 Computer Hardware, CPUs / Processors, Processors ...


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## cadaveca (Oct 23, 2012)

Norton said:


> Any reviews out there yet???



Patience, padawan, patience.


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## Jhelms (Oct 23, 2012)

ordered and looking forward to them!


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## Fatal1ty39 (Oct 23, 2012)

guys check this:
http://wccftech.com/amd-fx-8350-officially-priced/


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## Jhelms (Oct 23, 2012)

yeah 
AMD FX-8350 Vishera 4.0GHz (4.2GHz Tubo) Socket AM...


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 24, 2012)

Aria have them up for preorder in the uk, at 150 uk pounds bang on, a very good price, ive decided, sod it ill go homeless that way i can buy one this month , ill get a home another month


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