# Ryzen 5 3600 very high temps



## Agentak74u (Sep 21, 2019)

I've just built a new system with the 3600 stock cooler+b450 gaming plus max, but the CPU get hot very easy and in prime20 test I've reached 90 with 2 minutes or so
Is this a normal behavior of the 3600 or something is really wrong ?


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## Mussels (Sep 21, 2019)

A few random observations:

1. they *read* hotter than intels, since temp programs show the temp from the hottest core (which is why the temps bounce around a lot... annoying, but its accurate)
2. the stock cooler aint great, so 90C at full speed in a burn test seems plausible
3. mobo BIOS settings can make *huge* differences to the clocks temps and performance of ryzen, with some mobos having weird defaults. Try fiddling around with turning off options that claim to enhance performance, and see if the temps plummet (my x370 board had a default option for 'multi core enhancement' that did nothing except add 15C to temps)


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 21, 2019)

Mussels said:


> A few random observations:
> 
> 1. they *read* hotter than intels, since temp programs show the temp from the hottest core (which is why the temps bounce around a lot... annoying, but its accurate)
> 2. the stock cooler aint great, so 90C at full speed in a burn test seems plausible
> 3. mobo BIOS settings can make *huge* differences to the clocks temps and performance of ryzen, with some mobos having weird defaults. Try fiddling around with turning off options that claim to enhance performance, and see if the temps plummet (my x370 board had a default option for 'multi core enhancement' that did nothing except add 15C to temps)


Very similar here , auto settings are to be avoided if there is a Default setting, they're not the same.
I get 1.5V regularly with any setting other than default (sorry).
Hopefully the new bios on the way will help , it is said to run lower volts more often and cooler too.
That bios would contain ageesa 1,0,0,3ABBA.


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## Agentak74u (Sep 21, 2019)

Mussels said:


> A few random observations:
> 
> 1. they *read* hotter than intels, since temp programs show the temp from the hottest core (which is why the temps bounce around a lot... annoying, but its accurate)
> 2. the stock cooler aint great, so 90C at full speed in a burn test seems plausible
> 3. mobo BIOS settings can make *huge* differences to the clocks temps and performance of ryzen, with some mobos having weird defaults. Try fiddling around with turning off options that claim to enhance performance, and see if the temps plummet (my x370 board had a default option for 'multi core enhancement' that did nothing except add 15C to temps)


My concern is not really the high temp, its just how insanely quickly (within few minutes)I could hit 90c, sry if I didn't make this clear
Also not sure if is this related but I had a rough time installing the stock fan which made me reinstalling it 3 times  and I could see some thermopaste was on the CPU because of this after each removal


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## MrPotatoHead (Sep 21, 2019)

It shouldn't be that hard to install the cooler, do it again, clean the thermal paste and reapply, don't use prime20 to guage your temps monitor them under real world usage.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 21, 2019)

Clear cmos, update bios to latest.

Whats your Ambient Room Temperatures?

What case are you using how, many and what make and model of fans in the case? What video card are you using? Are you using hard disk drives? What's your Power supply?



Agentak74u said:


> My concern is not really the high temp, its just how insanely quickly (within few minutes)I could hit 90c, sry if I didn't make this clear
> Also not sure if is this related but I had a rough time installing the stock fan which made me reinstalling it 3 times  and I could see some thermopaste was on the CPU because of this after each removal


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## Agentak74u (Sep 21, 2019)

Although I have a crappy case that I don't even remember its name (cooler master elite 310 or something) with crappy airflow, I have tested it with the case open and room temp at average level and shifts slightly to the cold territory
Psu seasonic focus plus platinum

Also guys can you tell me what is the stock voltage of 3600 under different loads (idle,light, heavy) ? Because I see the voltage keep jumping back and forth to 1.39 something, which is I thing an auto OC ?


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## cucker tarlson (Sep 21, 2019)

get a better cooler.that's it.the 3600 box cooler is very basic.and amd's turbo is really aggresive,it really can pump a lot of voltage.
in fact it's more than a lot of people would be comfortable with if they were overclocking manually.

you need a decent $30 aftermarket cooler and you'll be fine.

what can $30 buy you where you live ?


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## Agentak74u (Sep 21, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> Clear cmos, update bios to latest.
> 
> Whats your Ambient Room Temperatures?
> 
> What case are you using how, many and what make and model of fans in the case? What video card are you using? Are you using hard disk drives? What's your Power supply?





cucker tarlson said:


> please,don't tell the guy 90 is fine,put your love for the red time aside this time.
> 
> get a better cooler.that's it.the 3600 box cooler is not what all the boys make it out to be,it's very basic.and amd's turbo is really aggresive,it really can pump a lot of voltage.you need a decent $30 aftermarket cooler and you'll be fine.
> 
> what can $30 buy you where you live ?


I've just disabled core enhancement in bios and now my CPU keeps @3600 all time with no boost to 4GH, now its a slight loss in performance at least in my case since all games run above 60fps all time anyways which is my monitor refresh rate, but what surprised me how much the temperature had dropped significantly even in my crappy case


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 21, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> Although I have a crappy case that I don't even remember its name (cooler master elite 310 or something) with crappy airflow, I have tested it with the case open and room temp at average level and shifts slightly to the cold territory
> Psu seasonic focus plus platinum
> 
> Also guys can you tell me what is the stock voltage of 3600 under different loads (idle,light, heavy) ? Because I see the voltage keep jumping back and forth to 1.39 something, which is I thing an auto OC ?



There will always be a voltage variable however if you set it from auto to manual it will maintain an absolute tolerance level.

Example my FX voltage is 1.476Vcore, under heavy load using Blender it goes to 1.524.


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## cucker tarlson (Sep 21, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> Example my FX voltage is 1.476Vcore, under heavy load using Blender it goes to 1.524.


what does this have to do with ryzen 3000 ?



Agentak74u said:


> I've just disabled core enhancement in bios and now my CPU keeps @3600 all time with no boost to 4GH, now its a slight loss in performance at least in my case since all games run above 60fps all time anyways which is my monitor refresh rate, but what surprised me how much the temperature had dropped significantly even in my crappy case


like I told you,amd really were trying to squeeze everything out of this chip,at the cost of high voltage and temps.if you're using ryzen with basic cooling you should tinker wtih manual voltages and clocks.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 21, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> I've just disabled core enhancement in bios and now my CPU keeps @3600 all time with no boost to 4GH, now its a slight loss in performance at least in my case since all games run above 60fps all time anyways which is my monitor refresh rate, but what surprised me how much the temperature had dropped significantly even in my crappy case



Some motherboards if you see auto as a voltage setting, right beside it you will see the voltage it is currently running at, you can lock it down by setting to manual.

Get your board manual out and read it.

@Bones or @ShrimpBrime  might be able to help


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## Agentak74u (Sep 21, 2019)

I did, but I don't know if this is an actual value or the OC value, hence I asked about it here


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 21, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> I did, but I don't know if this is an actual value or the OC value, hence I asked about it here



I'n the bios itself the settings are idle, no activity.

Hardware monitor/HWinfo64/Aida64 im unsure if openhardwaremonitor has been updated can show you what minimum volts, current volts and current max volts the invividual lines will run


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## Agentak74u (Sep 21, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> I'n the bios itself the settings are idle, no activity.
> 
> Hardware monitor/HWinfo64/Aida64 im unsure if openhardwaremonitor has been updated can show you what minimum volts, current volts and current max volts the invividual lines will run


ok then thx man i will try


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## Mussels (Sep 22, 2019)

ignore the voltage talk about ryzen, people are trying to compare how it works with previous generations (intel or AMD) and its not the same.

Voltages are high, but amperage/wattage is low - so its irrelevant. Its only one part of an equation, that people think is all-important because of static voltage all core overclocks being the norm for so long.

Yeah, your stock cooler will heat up fast...its tiny. As long as it doesnt throttle its good enough, you can upgrade for lower temps or lower noise if you wish but its not neccesary.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 22, 2019)

Mussels said:


> ignore the voltage talk about ryzen, people are trying to compare how it works with previous generations (intel or AMD) and its not the same.
> 
> Voltages are high, but amperage/wattage is low - so its irrelevant. Its only one part of an equation, that people think is all-important because of static voltage all core overclocks being the norm for so long.
> 
> Yeah, your stock cooler will heat up fast...its tiny. As long as it doesnt throttle its good enough, you can upgrade for lower temps or lower noise if you wish but its not neccesary.


E=I*R
P=I*E


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## Xzibit (Sep 22, 2019)

Agentak74u said:


> I've just disabled core enhancement in bios and now my CPU keeps @3600 all time with no boost to 4GH, now its a slight loss in performance at least in my case since all games run above 60fps all time anyways which is my monitor refresh rate, but what surprised me how much the temperature had dropped significantly even in my crappy case



If you want to keep the boost on. Leave Core Enhancement ON, Turn Percision Boost Overdrive to Disable

If that;s too hot. Update your bios. Bios ABB and above have an ECO Mode. Its runs your chip at a lower rated TDP. PBO in reverse essentially it will lower your sustain all core by -200mhz.


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## TheLostSwede (Sep 22, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> E=I*R
> P=I*E


Except that doesn't apply in this case, since we're looking at the package Voltage, not the actual CPU chiplet Voltage. In fact, there are no monitoring of the chiplet Voltage, at least not any user facing monitoring. In fact, what we might be seeing, is a combination of the Voltage going to the CCD(s) and I/O die, or it could just be the CCD Voltage. AMD hasn't made any public comment yet.


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## tabascosauz (Sep 22, 2019)

CPB/MCE off will disable all forms of boost on Ryzen 3000 and keep it at base clock. PBO off generally does literally nothing.

You can try either setting a manual clock and stable Vcore, setting an offset with boost (-0.05 is a good place to start), and / or setting a custom fan curve.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record at this point and getting tired of repeating this. Idle voltage will be around 1.4-1.5 because no current is being put through. When you load the CPU under single thread, light multicore, light allcore, or full load, you will see the respective Vcore that the chip requests and receives at those levels. Setting an offset will lower all of those equally, so you can experiment with what's stable and what's not in all of those situations.

But when you apply an offset, you have to test everything. Test stability with one core loaded. Test stability in games with a handful of cores under use. Test stability in stress tests that are light (OCCT). Test full on heavy stress tests (P95). All of those will result in different SVI2 TFN Vcore readings, thus you need to make sure the offset works at every level.

Leave all your prior assumptions or understandings about Vcore at the door. Anyone who says otherwise, that 1.5V with no load on the CPU is a dangerous problem, need not apply and should stick to Core, an architecture that would suit them better.


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## ShrimpBrime (Sep 22, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> Some motherboards if you see auto as a voltage setting, right beside it you will see the voltage it is currently running at, you can lock it down by setting to manual.
> 
> Get your board manual out and read it.
> 
> @Bones or @ShrimpBrime  might be able to help



I'll try to put it into perspective best as possible.

So the "Boost" feature is a range, starting from P-state of 3600mhz and up to max XFR frequency single core boost of 4.2ghz.
When you are idle, you will almost always see the highest voltage while single core boost is activated and is how the Cpu reaches 4.2ghz.
The ALL core load will sustain a voltage (for the most part) and will continue to do so until throttle temp is reached at 95c.
Once you've hit the throttle temp, you should see the clocks drop along with the voltage.

If you do not reach 95c with your Ryzen 3000 chip and it still throttles, that will be due to overheating VRM package area. Mount a fan there.

While any Ryzen setup is set with stock values, the Cpu will protect it'self for you. You don't have to worry about it running 90c, even though that's just too hot even for my taste personally.

You can run the chip cooler, but won't impact performance while you have a stock setup.

When you manually overclock, you can pass the throttle point of these chips. ThermTrip is around 110c, the PC will shut right off.

Do take notice, the Cpu fan should reach 100% at 70c. This is the thermal alarm and will not reset until temps are lower than 70c. Some boards are dialed in at 60/65/70c respectively for ramping up the Cpu fan to 100%.

In short, there's no real worries I see here with the system. It's running as it should.

One way to keep it running cool - Leave everything on Auto but change only the multiplier to 36.25x manually. It will keep cpu voltage at max P-state for that chip. You do not need to disable PBO or anything like that, but you do have to add the extra quarter multi. If set to 36x, the system will act as normal boosting and what not.


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## tabascosauz (Sep 22, 2019)

@ShrimpBrime that's nice to know, but the 3600 and 3700X are 65W parts. With stock boost settings, it's power draw and current limit that are hamstringing the chips from max boost all core speeds, 99% of the time.

Setting manual boost clocks and voltages (as a sort of manual OC) is the only way to bypass these safeguards, with the consequence that heavy stress tests like P95 Small/Smallest can draw as much power as they like (I've seen up to 105W+ on my 3700X at just 4.1GHz).


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## Mussels (Sep 22, 2019)

the CPB/MCE thing varies between boards, hence why i mentioned it. My aorus x370 adds 20C for no benefit, while my asus b450 uses it for boost clocks
Some of these things that SHOULD be universal, change between brands - hence the whole 'poke it and see' approach to BIOS settings


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## ShrimpBrime (Sep 22, 2019)

Thermal design point is a figure that has around 5% give and take. The 65w number means nothing besides the amount of BTU per hour it can produce under load.


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## eidairaman1 (Sep 22, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> I'll try to put it into perspective best as possible.
> 
> So the "Boost" feature is a range, starting from P-state of 3600mhz and up to max XFR frequency single core boost of 4.2ghz.
> When you are idle, you will almost always see the highest voltage while single core boost is activated and is how the Cpu reaches 4.2ghz.
> ...



I know about boost because the FX uses it but I disabled mine along with power states and CnQ, its why I can run 5.0 all day lol.


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## ShrimpBrime (Sep 22, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> I know about boost because the FX uses it but I disabled mine along with power states and CnQ, its why I can run 5.0 all day lol.



Indeed, that was mainly for the original poster of the thread to help him understand it a little about how it works.

However, FX chips use P-states for boost frequencies while Ryzen chips do not.
So a max boost could be IE: 2700x 4ghz on auto, PBO OC 4.1ghz and 4.2ghz respectively.


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## tabascosauz (Sep 22, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Thermal design point is a figure that has around 5% give and take. The 65w number means nothing besides the amount of BTU per hour it can produce under load.



I'm sorry, I'm going to have to call you out on this one. TDP does matter for the 65W Ryzen 3000 parts, and stock boost algorithm is strict about not exceeding roughly 75-80W power draw with said TDP. That's not up for debate; it's plain to see with the CPU scaling back the clocks to compensate in very heavy stress tests.

Also, Ryzen 3000 definitely does not wait until 95c to start throttling. That's simply untrue.


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## ShrimpBrime (Sep 22, 2019)

The thermal block contains all the features related to temperature sensing, control, and reporting. It includes: 
• Temperature collection and calculation using TCON (digital control logic) and TMON and Remote Diode Interface macros. 
• Fan speed control for off-chip fans. 
• Temperature reporting through the SMBUS interface 

So from your angle, 65W TDP (thermal design point) needs a cooler capable of removing about 222 BTU/hr. 
1v at 65 amps is 65W. Obviously this figure can be arranged a bunch of different ways.

AMDs angle for the term TDP is not exactly meaning power draw or usage while that is based on algorithms monitoring temperatures, but rather the amount of heat it can produce and is why it's called THERMAL DESIGN POWER.... not wattage design power.


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## cucker tarlson (Sep 22, 2019)

Mussels said:


> Voltages are high, but amperage/wattage is low - so its irrelevant.


fantastic.
now I'm off to put 1.6v through my 65w cpu.the wattage will stay okay so really what can happen.


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## ShrimpBrime (Sep 22, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> fantastic.
> now I'm off to put 1.6v through my 65w cpu.the wattage will stay okay so really what can happen.



lol, that's not exactly what he means dude....

You can use 1.6v if you had the ability to manually lower the AMPs. Just because you raise voltage, does not mean amps increase. 
You can run 1.5v at 30 amps or 60 amps.... but it's still 1.5v.
The issue is that we cannot change the AMP input manually, the voltage regulators do most of that work. increasing and decreasing according to logic registers. 

So 32 AMPs at 2v is only 65W


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## cucker tarlson (Sep 22, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> lol, that's not exactly what he means dude....
> 
> You can use 1.6v if you had the ability to manually lower the AMPs. Just because you raise voltage, does not mean amps increase.
> You can run 1.5v at 30 amps or 60 amps.... but it's still 1.5v.
> ...




well then he should be more specific 

what is the amp input on ryzen 3000 then ? 40A ?


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## ShrimpBrime (Sep 22, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> well then he should be more specific.
> 
> what is the amp input on ryzen 3000 then ? 40A ?



I understood it, but he's right the AMPs don't really matter.... let me try to explain why.

So lets say you run your chip at 1.300v at 3.9ghz. If you increase ONLY the speed say to 4.1Ghz.... the chip runs hotter...

The real question is why does the chip run hotter even though the Voltage input and reading are the same for both frequencies.....

Why does AVX instructions create more heat than programs that do not use AVX instructions?

The answers are pretty simple.

A. transistors may as well be viewed as mechanical parts. The faster they move, the more heat created. No extra voltage needed but increases Thermal wattage output also known as BTU.

B. AVX instruction sets load cpu cache which also produces more heat.... even at the sustained voltage.


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## cucker tarlson (Sep 22, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> I understood it, but he's right the AMPs don't really matter.... let me try to explain why.
> 
> So lets say you run your chip at 1.300v at 3.9ghz. If you increase ONLY the speed say to 4.1Ghz.... the chip runs hotter...
> 
> ...


okay,but what about the op's question though ?
is running 3600 on a puny heatsink with voltages around 1.4v and really high temps okay as long as he doesn't throttle?


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## ShrimpBrime (Sep 22, 2019)

Hopefully next we could address leakage characteristics of processors.



cucker tarlson said:


> okay,but what about the op's question though ?
> is running 3600 on a puny heatsink with voltages around 1.4v and really high temps okay as long as he doesn't throttle?



Well, 95c is T-Case max, not Thermtrip. Yes he'd be ok.


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## cucker tarlson (Sep 22, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Hopefully next we could address leakage characteristics of processors.


I just don't know why people are saying that.It was never okay to have a hot cpu running 1.4/1.5v but the boys say it's fine with 3000.what changed it's fine now ?


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## ShrimpBrime (Sep 22, 2019)

That's not entirely true..... maybe for daily average users... the unknowing or those don't really care much about it.....

So it's always been a long debate with AMD processors running high voltage for extended periods of time. But past processors had a t-case of as low as 65c. That's quite tough to keep under control.

But what do you mean by ok? Degradation? Longevity of the cpu? ..... If your rig made it 10 years with OC.... then it's good?

However, the more enthusiast type would want cooler temps to reach a high max clock.

AMD took care of that for everyone. Everyone is overclocking even if they don't know it and it's now called a "boost".

Base clock for my chip is the Max P-state registered. You can view this by going to the cpu-z about tab, click save report txt and view it for yourself. You probably won't see any "boosting" p-states like you would with previous gen (AM3+ and earlier)

Leakage. Inquire on Leakage. Or binning. Maybe touch on that.


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## cucker tarlson (Sep 22, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> That's not entirely true..... maybe for daily average users... the unknowing or those don't really care much about it.....
> 
> So it's always been a long debate with AMD processors running high voltage for extended periods of time. But past processors had a t-case of as low as 65c. That's quite tough to keep under control.
> 
> ...


I'm eyeing a 3700x for myself,but still have lots of doubts.
for example,why does it spike over 90-100w during gameplay ?


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## ShrimpBrime (Sep 22, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> I'm eyeing a 3700x for myself,but still have lots of doubts.
> for example,why does it spike over 90-100w during gameplay ?



Well sure it can. Maybe not often but that is a power usage of electrical current. The BTU does not change THAT drastically. You would use an average of electrical wattage used to be converted to BTU/hr output hence *T*hermal *D*esign *P*oint

So yes, electrical wattage may fluctuate greatly while maintaining a 65w TDP or 222 BTU/hr.
\
Follow?

EDIT:
I will say that it drives me crazy that people get stuck between TDP and what HWMonitor tells them.
So for informational purposes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power
Quoted from the wiki:
"sometimes called *thermal design point*, is the maximum amount of heat generated by a computer chip or component (often a CPU, GPU or system on a chip) that the cooling system in a computer is designed to dissipate under any workload. "

I really hope this information helps you guys/gals understand that a current wattage differs greatly from what TDP stands for.
Does TDP raise with overclocking = YES. Even if it's done automatically through SenseMi technologies or manually.
YES you can increase TDP by simply running a processor faster without changing the Wattage input of the processor.


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## Mussels (Sep 22, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> fantastic.
> now I'm off to put 1.6v through my 65w cpu.the wattage will stay okay so really what can happen.



and heres someone who failed to understand. thanks for making my point.

*THIS IS NOT ABOUT A STATIC VOLTAGE FOR 24/7 ALL CORE LOAD. IT IS NOT THE SAME THING AT ALL. I HOPE ALL CAPS GETS THIS THROUGH TO YOU.*


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## cucker tarlson (Sep 22, 2019)

Mussels said:


> and heres someone who failed to understand. thanks for making my point.
> 
> *THIS IS NOT ABOUT A STATIC VOLTAGE FOR 24/7 ALL CORE LOAD. IT IS NOT THE SAME THING AT ALL. I HOPE ALL CAPS GETS THIS THROUGH TO YOU.*


great,thanks for explaining it *before* lashing out.


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## Agentak74u (Sep 23, 2019)

Damn guys this is too much, you guys are amazing .. I probably need few days to digest these info


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## Chomiq (Sep 23, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> I'm eyeing a 3700x for myself,but still have lots of doubts.
> for example,why does it spike over 90-100w during gameplay ?


Might be the fault of default LLC set by the mobo.


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## Xzibit (Sep 23, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> I'm eyeing a 3700x for myself,but still have lots of doubts.
> for example,*why does it spike over 90-100w during gameplay ?*



Read his Details



> CPU: AMD Ryzen™ *5* 3700X, 3.6 - 4.4GHz *PBO+Auto OC*



PBO depending on the settings hes using in PBO he can be allowing 35 watts more.

Could be this unreleased Ryzen 5 3700X uses more watts then actual Ryzen 7 3700X


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