# Best sounding 2.1 setup for Music?



## shevanel (Jun 11, 2010)

I have been rocking out on ADA-305's for quite a while since I traded them from justn sometime back in a local trade. I am starting to outgrow them and I'm craving something with more power.

Can anybody suggest the "best" overall 2.1 sound setup on a $200 budget?

I listen to mostly rock n roll, metal and classic rock.

Thanks for the suggestions.


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## Soylent Joe (Jun 11, 2010)

Klipsch ProMedia's. They'll blow your mind. There are plenty of good reviews around for them. Second up would be the Logitech Z-2300's, also very good.


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## brandonwh64 (Jun 11, 2010)

I have this as my speaker system!! i have two extra speakers for mids!







MINE!





http://www.hctkorea.co.kr/mall/goods_detail.php?goodsIdx=705


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## shevanel (Jun 11, 2010)

lol when i first saw that pic i thought of jazz from the deceptacons

Its hard to choose speakers...

so for $150 those klipsch's are about as good as it gets?


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## DanishDevil (Jun 11, 2010)

I would say take your pick of either the ProMedias or the Z-2300s. They're both very good.


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## brandonwh64 (Jun 11, 2010)

Even if you liked what i had you wouldnt be able to get them unless you goto korea or iraq LOL


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## shevanel (Jun 11, 2010)

DanishDevil said:


> I would say take your pick of either the ProMedias or the Z-2300s. They're both very good.



do you know how loud these things get without getting distorted?


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## DanishDevil (Jun 11, 2010)

I can do some testing, but I don't think my apartmentmates would appreciate it


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## DanishDevil (Jun 11, 2010)

Rather than pissing off everyone around me, I googled Z-2300 and "distortion" and found that a good amount of Newegg reviews noted these speakers for very low distortion at high volume levels, and quoting that it starts around 80% volume, which is more than loud enough for parties


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## shevanel (Jun 11, 2010)

Screw it, I'm going to take the advice and run with it. I'll get them from Best buy so if I am not satisfied I'll take em back. Ocala has em i stock and I'm free tomorrow during the day, I might go pick a set up.



One of these days I'm going to invest some money into a bad ass stereo system with the works, but for now.. something like this is perfect for my budget. Especially with 2 car payments now ugg..

Thanks for the quick advice.


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## DanishDevil (Jun 11, 2010)

No problemo! Don't forget that I've got the Prelude if you want an extra kick in the ass with 'em!


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## shevanel (Jun 11, 2010)

I'll check out some reviews on it, I think getting new speakers would be the better first step for now.. but I'll def check out that sound card after work tonight.


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## Dent1 (Jun 11, 2010)

shevanel said:


> I have been rocking out on ADA-305's for quite a while since I traded them from justn sometime back in a local trade. I am starting to outgrow them and I'm craving something with more power.
> 
> Can anybody suggest the "best" overall 2.1 sound setup on a $200 budget?
> 
> ...



Ignore the computer speakers and buy a cheap AV receiver and 2 wooden bookshelf or floor standing speakers - sound much better than computer speakers.

Klipsch F-1 Synergy FloorStanding $150
Polk Audio R50 Two-Way $130
Sony SS-B1000 5 1/8-Inch Bookshelf Speakers (Pair) $50
Sony SS-B3000 Bookshelf Speakers with 8" Woofer (Pair) $86
Yamaha NS-6490 $119

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000M2UY1Q/?tag=tec06d-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EHHOOE/?tag=tec06d-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OG88KY/?tag=tec06d-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OG6I6A/?tag=tec06d-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00018Q4GA/?tag=tec06d-20

If you need help finding a AV receiver just ask.


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 11, 2010)

Dent1 said:


> Ignore the computer speakers and buy a cheap AV receiver and 2 wooden bookshelf or floor standing speakers - sound much better than computer speakers.



+1 to this. i am using a older kenwood receiver that is perfect with my mid-range (some would call it high-end) 2.1 cambridge soundworks setup. sounds a hundred times better than all of those computer speakers and it realy does not cost much more.


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## PaulieG (Jun 11, 2010)

Soylent Joe said:


> Klipsch ProMedia's. They'll blow your mind. There are plenty of good reviews around for them. Second up would be the Logitech Z-2300's, also very good.



This. I swear they sound as good as my Polk audio bookshelf speakers. Actually, since I paired them with my Auzentech x-raider sound card, I barely touch my home audio system.


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## Dent1 (Jun 11, 2010)

Paulieg said:


> This. I swear they sound as good as my Polk audio bookshelf speakers. Actually, since I paired them with my Auzentech x-raider sound card, I barely touch my home audio system.



 Your kidding right?


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## PaulieG (Jun 11, 2010)

Dent1 said:


> Your kidding right?



No, I'm not. I've got a pretty good ear, and for the money it's about as good as it gets unless you really want to pour a ton of money into a decent receiver and floor standing speakers. I've heard the Z's too, and for my money the Klipsh are better.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jun 11, 2010)

shevanel said:


> do you know how loud these things get without getting distorted?


ProMedia Ultra has an SNR of 106 dB.  Z-2300 has SNR of 100 dB.

As far as I can tell on my 5.1 system, there is zero distortion throughout the range.  They peak (hit the SNR, in my case 115 dB) before they distort.


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

Dent1 said:


> Ignore the computer speakers and buy a cheap AV receiver and 2 wooden bookshelf or floor standing speakers - sound much better than computer speakers.
> 
> Klipsch F-1 Synergy FloorStanding $150
> Polk Audio R50 Two-Way $130
> ...



that would be awesome to do but with it being the slow season at work and my kid out on summer break I cannot justify spending $500+ on a sound system when I really use headphones for 80+% of my listening time.. I usually only use the ada-305's whenever I'm in the shower, watching a movie when no one is sleeping or when I just wanna crank up some music which isn't as often as I would normally enjoy to do.


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## Easo (Jun 12, 2010)

Z-2300
When in dormitory guy, who has them, turns them on, i can hear my x-530 only in my room xD


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

No offense but what the heck does that mean?


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## hat (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> that would be awesome to do but with it being the slow season at work and my kid out on summer break I cannot justify spending $500+ on a sound system when I really use headphones for 80+% of my listening time.. I usually only use the ada-305's whenever I'm in the shower, watching a movie when no one is sleeping or when I just wanna crank up some music which isn't as often as I would normally enjoy to do.



I'm pretty sure those are all seperate sets. I've been through the ringer with using home theater speakers with a reciever and getting it to work with the pc just about a week ago, I probably know anything you'll need.

For analog, the best you're going to get is stereo unless you spend like $400 on the only reciever that actually has 7.1 analog inputs. If you want 5.1, SPDIF over coaxial or optical is a good choice. If you want 7.1... you're going to have to use HDMI, since SPDIF can't handle it.


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## Dent1 (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> that would be awesome to do but with it being the slow season at work and my kid out on summer break I cannot justify spending $500+ on a sound system when I really use headphones for 80+% of my listening time.. I usually only use the ada-305's whenever I'm in the shower, watching a movie when no one is sleeping or when I just wanna crank up some music which isn't as often as I would normally enjoy to do.



You said that you had a $200 budget. I sent you speakers that are in the $50-150 area, you could easily buy a receiver for another $100-150. Its a misconception that you need $500. The cheapest most crappiest bookshelf speakers are better than most of the computer speakers you guys are discussing here.



hat said:


> I saw a decent stereo reciever at radio shack for $100 not too long ago. Only problem was it's stereo... heh.



Thats what the OP is after, stereo. 

If he gets a hometheatre receiver for upto 7.1 or 5.1 he can start out at 2.0/2.1 and add speakers in the distant future when the money is rolling in.


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## hat (Jun 12, 2010)

I saw a decent stereo reciever at radio shack for $100 not too long ago. Only problem was it's stereo... heh.


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

i had a 5.1 sound system before and Im not a big fan of it.. maybe for movies but meh.. and music on 5.1 sounds unnatural to my ears. I just like 2 speakers in front of me and sub hanging out on teh floor..

Plus, space is a limitation for me as well.. Im going to try and score the Klipsch's but I appreciate your suggestion, it'll give me something to think about for a future upgrade beyond this one.


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## Dent1 (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> Im going to try and score the Klipsch's but I appreciate your suggestion, it'll give me something to think about for a future upgrade beyond this one.



Sherwood Stereo RX-4105 $109.99

_or_

ONKYO Stereo High Fidelity Receiver TX-8255 $169

_With_

 Polk Audio Monitor 40 Black Two-way bookshelf loudspeaker Pair $119

total, that's either $288 or $229

Onkyo are known for making really got receivers, that AV receiver has actually been discounted. Sherwood is a bit heh, Polk make good bookshelf speakers, notice how the low freqency range can drop all the way down to 47Hz, some subwoofers can not go that low.

Also bear in mind that to cut prices further you can mix one of the stereo receivers with one of the cheapest bookshelf speakers I mentioned in the other post from Amazon.

Polk Audio Monitor 40 Black Two-way bookshelf loud...

Sherwood Stereo Remote Controlled Receiver RX-4105

ONKYO Stereo High Fidelity Receiver TX-8255


If you've made up your mind already I will stop trying to convince you lol.


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

What about the quality of something like this or this for used gear off CL.

This looks like a monster http://orlando.craigslist.org/ele/1763812740.html


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## Wile E (Jun 12, 2010)

You cannot beat Onkyo. I swear by their receivers. Go for the 603 if it;s still available. It has 5.1 analog ins in case you ever want to upgrade to surround again.

I'm with Dent on this. Skip the computer speakers, and go for a receiver and home audio speakers. I have heard the Pro Medias in person, and they cannot compare to a proper receiver with decent speakers.

And I agree with you on listening to music thru the fronts only. With a surround setup, you can have both tho. Mine is set to play stereo sources thru just the fronts, but surround plays thru all channels.


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

I am starting to see the sense in buying a receiver since the speakers can always be upgraded later as the budget allows, correct?

Do people use subwoofers on these stereo reciever or is only a good pair of speakers required to get full rich sound?

I like the sound to be bassy, somewhat low and gritty.

Plus, I am liking the receiver idea bec. I think it would not only sound better as you say, but maybe even look pretty cool atop my lian li?


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## Wile E (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> I am starting to see the sense in buying a receiver since the speakers can always be upgraded later as the budget allows, correct?
> 
> Do people use subwoofers on these stereo reciever or is only a good pair of speakers required to get full rich sound?
> 
> I like the sound to be bassy, somewhat low and gritty.



A sub helps, but good speakers will carry plenty of bass. Try to find an old pair of Cerwin Vega home speakers on Craigslist or something, and you'll forget all about needing a subwoofer. lol.


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

Do i need to find speakers that match the rated power output? 

What about my sound card, best way to connect it to the receiver?

also, which is better, the hifi stereo dent listed for $169 or the 603 on CL?


I have zero experience in this area. :-(


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## Wile E (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> Do i need to find speakers that match the rated power output?
> 
> What about my sound card, best way to connect it to the receiver?
> 
> ...



The speakers just need to handle enough for them to be loud enough for you. Shouldn't really be a big issue.

As far as connecting them, you use 3.5mm to rca converter cables. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000V0G2C4/?tag=tec06d-20

For stereo, the headphone style jack plugs into your sound card's front outputs, and the rca ends plug into the input on the  back of the receiver. That's all there is to it.

For surround, you get a couple more of those cable when the time comes, and use one for the rear surrounds, and one for center/sub, hooked up in the same manner.

And I'd get the 603. More options available to you.


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

Ok, gotcha. I have a 2 foot 3.5mm to rca adapter I use on the mixer at work. 

Why do people use optical cables? (dolby mainly?)


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## Dent1 (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> What about the quality of something like this or this for used gear off CL.
> 
> This looks like a monster http://orlando.craigslist.org/ele/1763812740.html



The TX SR603X 7.1 is good.

Ignore the Onkyo receiver/ 6 speakers as it doesn’t list the model of the speakers or receiver so I can not check up on the specification.

The HT-R510 is "OK" for value for money and at $200 its worth it. However its 7.1 and space is an issue? These speakers are worth it but in a stereo environment those speakers look a bit weak. If you are content with 2.1 you'd be better off buying the TX SR603X with better 2.0 speakers like the Polk Audios.



shevanel said:


> Do people use subwoofers on these stereo reciever or is only a good pair of speakers required to get full rich sound?



It’s a personal preference, if you buy decent bookshelf speakers that can hit low ranges of 55Hz or lower you will get some decent bass anyways. Most receivers will come with equalizers and various calibrations to increase the bass the fronts can deliver, or you might decide to tweak the bass on a software level on the soundcards drivers. Floorstanding speakers tend to have much better bass than bookshelves (generalisation), it might be worth bearing that in mind too.

If the bass isn’t punchy enough you can always add a Subwoofer down the line.




shevanel said:


> Ok, gotcha. I have a 2 foot 3.5mm to rca adapter I use on the mixer at work.
> 
> Why do people use optical cables? (dolby mainly?)



1 cable rather than a spaghetti. Also, optical allows for compressed digital audio i.e. Dolby and DTS 5.1.

If you are only running 2 speakers it doesn’t really matter.


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## Wile E (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> Ok, gotcha. I have a 2 foot 3.5mm to rca adapter I use on the mixer at work.
> 
> Why do people use optical cables? (dolby mainly?)



Simplicity. Or, if they are on on-board, the receiver's decoders might actually be better. A top end sound card sounds better thru analog most of the time tho.


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

Ok great, thanks for the help guys. I feel a bit more confident about taking the receiver route. 

I just don't want to be in a position where I am putting the cart before the horse and end up buying speakers too weak or too much for the receiver to handle. If it comes down to it, Ill scrape up and buy really good speakers if it will truly make the music experience more than I ever thought it could be, ya know?

I'll check out those polk audios now

http://orlando.craigslist.org/ele/1728907859.html hmm


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## hat (Jun 12, 2010)

There's no such thing as too little for the reciever to handle. You could get 2w speakers and hook them up to a 600w reciever, wouldn't make much sense but it would work, heh.

If you want a subwoofer, look for a reciever that has a sub channel.


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## Wile E (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> Ok great, thanks for the help guys. I feel a bit more confident about taking the receiver route.
> 
> I just don't want to be in a position where I am putting the cart before the horse and end up buying speakers too weak or too much for the receiver to handle. If it comes down to it, Ill scrape up and buy really good speakers if it will truly make the music experience more than I ever thought it could be, ya know?
> 
> ...



DCM's are probably perfect for your tastes. They can hit.

I prefer balanced sound, myself.


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## mdsx1950 (Jun 12, 2010)

Creative Gigaworks T3 FTW


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

ah, ok cool. I dont think the onkyo sr603 has a subwoofer channel  so something like those floor speakers would possibly eliminate the need for the sub?

I don't like overly bassy sound, but i do like a lower sound and i do not like really bright highs for the most part

you mentioned cerwin vega earlier, here is a set with a receiver http://orlando.craigslist.org/msg/1782267108.html


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## Wile E (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> ah, ok cool. I dont think the onkyo sr603 has a subwoofer channel  so something like those floor speakers would possibly eliminate the need for the sub?
> 
> I don't like overly bassy sound, but i do like a lower sound and i do not like really bright highs for the most part



It has a sub channel, but it's not powered, it's a line out. So only powered subs.

And you shouldn't need a sub with those speakers, at least not right away.


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## Dent1 (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> http://orlando.craigslist.org/ele/1728907859.html hmm



Spec wise they are good, loving the low frequencies of 30Hz (lower than most subwoofers). So it can be really bassy on the right environment. If I'm honest i've never heard of the DCM brand before.


Comparison

Polk Audio Monitor 40 
47Hz - 25kHz
2 x 5.25" woofer
2.54" tweeter
Dual bi-amping
8 ohms 

DCM KX-10 
30Hz - 20kHz 
1 x 10" woofer
1 x 6" mid woofer
1x 3-4" tweeter)
Physcially bigger and heavier
Dual bi-amping (unknown)
8 ohms 

On paper the DCMs are better than the Polk 40s, it has better bass output and a larger main woofer to drive that bass and an additional mid woofer and a bigger tweeter than the Polk 40s.

But as I said before I am not familiar with DCMs as far as a brand, maybe they are established but they have bypassed me. lol




shevanel said:


> ah, ok cool. I dont think the onkyo sr603 has a subwoofer channel  so something like those floor speakers would possibly eliminate the need for the sub?



I wouldn’t really class the DCM KX-10s as floor standing speakers, still more bookshelf-ish.

From floor standing speakers you'd get some bass but nothing overwhelming otherwise you will not hear the highs, you still need a decent receiver to drive the bass to the fronts or to perform cross over effects i.e. redirect the low frequencies that normally go to the subs to the fronts (floor standing or bookshelf) speakers instead. Buts very unlikely that you will eliminate the usefulness of a subwoofer completely.


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

I think theyre really old speakers. 

I have emailed a few leads on craigslist on speakers, I think I am going to try and get floor speakers simply because of the larger woofers and possibly fuller and thicker sound? Plus I don't have desk space for speakers anyway (My desk has these speaker platforms behind the montior to the left and right but the left one is slightly higher than the left one, wierd.) and would possibly like to set the speakers on either side of my desk maybe.


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## Dent1 (Jun 12, 2010)

Remember on page 1, I linked you the Polk R50 floorstanders (traditional floorstanders as they are tower like) it has 2x 10" Woofers and 1x 3-4" tweeter.


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EHHOOE/?tag=tec06d-20


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## Wile E (Jun 12, 2010)

Dent1 said:


> Spec wise they are good, loving the low frequencies of 30Hz (lower than most subwoofers). So it can be really bassy on the right environment. If I'm honest i've never heard of the DCM brand before.
> 
> 
> Comparison
> ...


They are floor standing models. Those will not fit on a book shelf. lol. Floor standing =|= tall.

And DCM is a decent brand. They were comparable to the Cerwin Vega speakers of the same era.


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

ooooohh *Polk Audio R50 *

AHH, yes! Aesthetically speaking, I love them!!! Plus they would be perfect beside my desk on either side as the height would put them right in my nostrils! 

You think they would blow me away?

you say dual 10's, this ad says dual 6 point fives... but i think I remember hearing a friends harmon kardon system a long long long time ago and his looked alot like these but he said he made the cabs himself, they sounded redic.


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## TIGR (Jun 12, 2010)

An inexpensive solution:
Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 for $100 shipped


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

TIGR said:


> An inexpensive solution:
> Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 for $100 shipped



But is a $350 onkyo/polk setup only slighty better than the klipsch or "$200" better? I'm starting to really want the best bang for buck now and Im willing to drop around 300-350 of those bucks if I can get something that will blow my face off. Really makes me wonder how those 4 and 5 digit audio system some people have really sound...

$100 shipped is a very very tempting price.. but I don't mind a little hard work and patience if I can come out with something worth the time and money of hunting around.

I'm going to keep my eye on that set in H, thanks for the lead.


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## Wile E (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> But is a $350 onkyo/polk setup only slighty better than the klipsch or "$200" better? I'm starting to really want the best bang for buck now and Im willing to drop around 300-350 of those bucks if I can get something that will blow my face off. Really makes me wonder how those 4 and 5 digit audio system some people have really sound...
> 
> $100 shipped is a very very tempting price.. but I don't mind a little hard work and patience if I can come out with something worth the time and money of hunting around.
> 
> I'm going to keep my eye on that set in H, thanks for the lead.


It's not $200 better, it's $400 better.


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## Dent1 (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> you say dual 10's, this ad says dual 6 point fives... but i think I remember hearing a friends harmon kardon system a long long long time ago and his looked alot like these but he said he made the cabs himself, they sounded redic.



There is some ambiguity about the specification. Deal Time has them listed as 6.5" too with a 1.75" tweeter.

http://www0.dealtime.com/xPF-Polk-Audio-R50


I found some videos of the Polk R50s, one of which a guy unboxes it and takes off the grill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXEqKoW0EEY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmrG3zU_Y14


Edit:

The Polk R50s on craig list for $200 can be bought for cheaper new, on newegg.com

Polk Audio Monitor 50 Two-Way Floorstanding Loudspeaker Cherry Each $89 each
Polk Audio Monitor 50 Two-Way Floorstanding Loudsp...

Thats $178 a pair.


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## amd64skater (Jun 12, 2010)

Soylent Joe said:


> Klipsch ProMedia's. They'll blow your mind. There are plenty of good reviews around for them. Second up would be the Logitech Z-2300's, also very good.



i have z-2300's and i love them


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

While I do appreciate you linking me to a better deal, I still have to be honest I would probably feel awkward with cherry finish in my room.


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## TIGR (Jun 12, 2010)

Whether the Onkyo/Polk setup is worth the $200 greater price over the Kliipsch ProMedias depends on whether you have developed the hearing to appreciate it. In this arena, the phrase "ignorance is bliss" is profoundly true. At first you won't notice much of a difference between "typical" audio gear and more high-end stuff—actually, you probably will notice a difference you _don't like_ because you are accustomed to a different sound (e.g. more peaky and bass-heavy frequency response, more subdued highs, etc.). But then you will start hearing things in your music that you have never before noticed, because the audio systems on which you previously heard them simply did not perform with such accuracy and sophistication of audiophile-grade gear.

So to some, $200 more is worth it. To some, it isn't. Worth $400 more? Not to anyone who knows what else is available for $400 more.

The Polk R50s have two 6.5" midrange drivers and one 1.75" tweeter (Polk specs page).


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## Wile E (Jun 12, 2010)

TIGR said:


> Whether the Onkyo/Polk setup is worth the $200 greater price over the Kliipsch ProMedias depends on whether you have developed the hearing to appreciate it. In this arena, the phrase "ignorance is bliss" is profoundly true. At first you won't notice much of a difference between "typical" audio gear and more high-end stuff—actually, you probably will notice a difference you _don't like_ because you are accustomed to a different sound. But then you will start hearing things in your music that you have never before noticed, because the audio systems on which you previously heard them simply did not perform with such accuracy and sophistication of audiophile-grade gear.
> 
> So to some, $200 more is worth it. To some, it isn't. Worth $400 more? Not to anyone who knows what else is available for $400 more.
> 
> The Polk R50s have two 6.5" midrange drivers and one 1.75" tweeter (Polk specs page).


It was a joke. He's paying $200 more, but is getting back $400 more in sound.


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

TIGR, I do know what your are talking about. I can notice things with music, and sometimes I feel like the music doesnt sound as good on some days as others.. maybe when its quiet in my house and I listen at semi-low volume it seems loud (because i dont want to wake anyone and the volume is what i feel to be at max without distubance), but during the day when I can crank it I get unsatisfied... headphones though really sound amazing and i want that sound without headphones.. hard to explain

When I changed sound cards and headphones I started to explore my music as if I were listening to it with the common familiarity of the music but the music seemed like it was some overclocked, tweaked out version of what I usually listen to in the rediculously crappy speakers in my car.. I discovered things I never noticed before, cleaner sounding instruments, a visualization of the instruments position compared to others.

It was like going from a 27" Sanyo SD Tv to my 40" 1080P with bluray ya know? 

I want that sound in my headphones to be in the air  like I have a gigantic headset wrapped around my bedroom lol


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## Dent1 (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> While I do appreciate you linking me to a better deal, I still have to be honest I would probably feel awkward with cherry finish in my room.



They do the black finish but its 109 each, 218 for a pair - but you know its new and you are covered by warranty

Polk Audio Monitor 50 Black Two-way Floorstanding ...

I might be jumping the gun, but I've found a good Polk subwoofers too.

Polk Audio PSW Series PSW10 Black 10-inch Powered Subwoofer Each 35Hz - 200Hz, 100 watts  $99

Polk Audio PSW Series PSW10 Black 10-inch Powered ...


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

I saw that sub here http://orlando.craigslist.org/ele/1783162684.html and sent an offer kinda. (kinda stacking my options here but w/e I might be able to score something, people have a hard time selling luxuries)

@ post 51 

If I get the polk speakers Ill wait a little to see if the used sub drops because of lack of interest.. if it doesnt or disappears then newegg it is. Might be 2-3 weeks before I could add a sub if I drop $200 on speakers and $125-200 on a receiver

Heh, since you guys helped me out so much I'll give you everything in my thread for $25 off (if u want it).. thats a ton of crap for 5, 20 dollar bills.


LOL I put an add on CL wanting stereo stuff... damn I really hate seeing these offers and having no clue what the quality of this stuff is..

for example



> Kenwood receiver Model # KR-V6040
> Sony 5 disk CD Player Model # C265
> Set of Fisher Speakers.
> 
> ...



Thats what i love about the net, 24/7 school


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## Dent1 (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> I saw that sub here http://orlando.craigslist.org/ele/1783162684.html and sent an offer kinda. (kinda stacking my options here but w/e I might be able to score something, people have a hard time selling luxuries)



If you do buy it get the newegg one, its only $10 more with free shipping and has a warranty.

Polk Audio PSW Series PSW10 Black 10-inch Powered ...

Edit:

BTW, I know that you are not comfortable with the cherry finish, but I was looking @ ebay and they've got a auction on the Polk R50s, only 5 hrs left and its  @ $88 ATM. $50 delivery, if you bid wiseless you might be able to make a saving.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PAIR-Monitor-50...em&pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item35a9e55a11


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

Im really scared of the cherry...

I would go from posting a thread and looking at promedia 2.1s for $150 @ BB... to searching aimlessly for onkyo/polk stuff.. to dropping much more than $150 @ BB to having speakers that cause me to move everything out of my room and strip my hardwood floors to refinish them to match the speakers... (if i fell in love with em lol)

a simple day of unsatisfactory music played aloud turns into a $1000 investment and Im still left with $189 entry level speakers lol


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## Dent1 (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> Im really scared of the cherry...
> 
> I would go from posting a thread and looking at promedia 2.1s for $150 @ BB... to searching aimlessly for onkyo/polk stuff.. to dropping much more than $150 @ BB to having speakers that cause me to move everything out of my room and strip my hardwood floors to refinish them to match the speakers... (if i fell in love with em lol)
> 
> a simple day of unsatisfactory music played aloud turns into a $1000 investment and Im still left with $189 entry level speakers lol



Exactly, you have to stick to your budget. Your original budget was $200, that can still be done, obviously you will not get Polks, but I can still find you some decent floorstanding speakers and receiver for a total of around $200 if thats what you would rather? it'll still sound better than PC speakers or those Promedia's.





shevanel said:


> the guy with the onkyo TX SR603X 7.1 channel Receiver - $125 is texting me, its available
> 
> Is this the rec. to go with, If the rec. is the most important part I could spend a little more....



You are not going to find much better receiver for $125. Make sure its in good condition, is that $125 shipped?





shevanel said:


> i can probably squeeze $350ish on the R50's and the 603 if its going to be worth it.. the $200 was my budget when i was talking about PC sets.. and i wasnt wanting the 5.1 logitech z5500s or w/e so i set $200 as the cap



$125 can get you a pair of some nice Sony Floorstanding speakers, this does not have to be expensive!

Sony SS-F6000 a pair $125 free delivery

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OG4E20/?tag=tec06d-20


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

the guy with the onkyo TX SR603X 7.1 channel Receiver - $125 (local pickup) is texting me, its available..

Is this the rec. to go with, If the rec. is the most important part I could spend a little more....

i can probably squeeze $350ish on the R50's and the 603 if its going to be worth it.. the $200 was my budget when i was talking about PC sets.. and i wasnt wanting the 5.1 logitech z5500s or w/e so i set $200 as the cap

if there is a better reciever, Ill drop down on it if it's going to be a better investment.. and ill pick up speakers next weekend.

i want best bang for buck possible.. (the sonys are low priced indeed, you think the $75 saved by skipping the polks wont be too much of a audible sacrafice?)


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## Dent1 (Jun 12, 2010)

The more expensive receivers come with technologies which are not needed at the moment like HDMI connections, Dolby TrueHD, DTS Masters, stuff which even most audiophiles will think is overkill. The onkyo TX SR603X, might even be too much for your needs, you only need a stereo receiver in actuality. The onkyo TX SR603X should retain its value because of its name so you could probably sell it in a year or two for a better receiver without losing money.

I actually have those Sony's myself lol, for the price they are good. In the AV world Sony is looked down on for not being luxurious enough but they usually do deliver for their price. The spec on it is amazing 2 x 6.5” woofers, 1x 3.25" woofer and a 1" tweeter, frequencies drop down to 40Hz. 

It really depends on costs, spec wise the Polks are not much better than the Sony's, but if you want prestige, bragging rights then Polk is what you're after. Again as somebody else said above you really need a trained ear to notice the difference.  

Remember this is your very first AV grade system so it doesn’t have to be the best, go to AVSforum.com and they are dropping like $2-10k just on speakers sometimes.


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

That makes a ton of sense, Those sonys could be the most I'd need.. Lol, look up the specs to my ada-305's and I think theyre loud and bassy but distort at high volumes, but for there size i guess its expected..

Those dual 6.5' x 2 will probably be more than I bargained for ya know.

My speakers sound pretty damn good when the volume is around 60% or so.. but jammin out is out of the question and i cannot here them through a window while outside with the dog


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## Dent1 (Jun 12, 2010)

shevanel said:


> That makes a ton of sense, Those sonys could be the most I'd need.. Lol, look up the specs to my ada-305's and I think theyre loud and bassy but distort at high volumes, but for there size i guess its expected..
> 
> Those dual 6.5' x 2 will probably be more than I bargained for ya know.
> 
> My speakers sound pretty damn good when the volume is around 60% or so.. but jammin out is out of the question and i cannot here them through a window while outside with the dog



When you hear proper wooden bookshelf speakers, you'll never go back to regular speakers.

When your receiver arrives get the grips with the manual as you might have to do some tweaks to get it the way you want, you will not have a subwoofer so you will be wanting to apply cross over to redirect those LFE to the floorstanding speakers for extra bass. 

This guy has the Sony SS-F6000's with the grill off connected to a Yamaha receiver, interesting watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIKmhQc6xQw

I run my sony's in a 5.1 environment so needs are slightly different from yours, when watching DVDs generally speaking I do not want the fronts too bassy otherwise it muddles the speech from my center speaker.


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## shevanel (Jun 12, 2010)

Sweet vid, Ill probably go with the sonys then.. seems like a good start.

Thanks for all the help, it's now time for bed. I am meeting the guy for the onkyo tomorrow at 6pm. Ill be back to this thread and let you know how things unfold.

thank to everyone that stopped by to give me all this info, truly appreciate it.

i cant wait to watch the hi def foo fighter concert from wembley stadium using the new speakers... esp the last song of the set.. its bad ass


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## PaulieG (Jun 12, 2010)

Wile E said:


> A sub helps, but good speakers will carry plenty of bass. Try to find an old pair of Cerwin Vega home speakers on Craigslist or something, and you'll forget all about needing a subwoofer. lol.



Old Cerwin Vega's FTW. I had an old pair of CV's (mid 80's), and I swear to this day, they are the best speakers I ever owned. Wish I never sold them.


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## Wile E (Jun 13, 2010)

Paulieg said:


> Old Cerwin Vega's FTW. I had an old pair of CV's (mid 80's), and I swear to this day, they are the best speakers I ever owned. Wish I never sold them.



Yeah. I miss my old Vegas. I think they were VS series. They were 3 ways with 10's, and weighed a good 80lbs a piece. Had to sell them ages ago.


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## shevanel (Jun 13, 2010)

so i have arranged to pick up the onkyo 603 reciever for $125 and the Polk R50 new in box with black finish for $175 tomorrow in Orlando..

$300 aint bad eh? I hope they sound good lol


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## Wile E (Jun 13, 2010)

shevanel said:


> so i have arranged to pick up the onkyo 603 reciever for $125 and the Polk R50 new in box with black finish for $175 tomorrow in Orlando..
> 
> $300 aint bad eh? I hope they sound good lol



That's a damn good deal.


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## shevanel (Jun 13, 2010)

I hope so.. Ive been reading mixed reviews on the receiver as far as music goes.. most people love the R50 but I will probably need a sub down the line somewhere.


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## shevanel (Jun 13, 2010)

http://orlando.craigslist.org/ele/1788537509.html

this guy is like 6 minutes from my house, I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on these. /he said he is willling to negotiate as he wants some other things i have here too..

What do u guys think compared to the Polk Monitor 50's?


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## cadaveca (Jun 13, 2010)

The infinity speakers are better.


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## shevanel (Jun 13, 2010)

I'm heading over to his house after I send this. I really want to hear how they sound.. I figure if I get something like this I might just have a system that I might not outgrow so fast... I outgrow things rather quickly.

BBIAB


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## cadaveca (Jun 13, 2010)

Going for seperate components, as you are, is totally the way to go. 


For $350, those Infinity's are a steal...they were $699 a pair, here. You won't need a sub, unless going for a full HT set-up. A good receiver and a pair of bookshelf's are overkill for a bedroom...Floor standing is only better. 

Bi-amp them using A/B channels, and you're good to go.


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## shevanel (Jun 13, 2010)

I picked up the Beta 50's. He ran them through a Marantz 2275 old school analog receiver...

when I listened to them nothing made be question whether or not I'd like them, they sounded awesome. I don't have anything to really compare them to from my own opinion but all that matered was the music sounded like perfect.

He was a cool dude too, he dropped the price to $300 for me and even loaded them up and followed me home since I drive a 2 wheeler. 

the appointment to grab the Onkyo is at 8pm, it's an hour a way but I will gladly make that trip just to get these babies hooked up.

I hope I am making a good decision on this setup, especially with the receiver.

Thanks again

(He showed me something about the BI amp but I really don't know what the A/B is all about, Im sure with time I will get a grasp on it, Im excited about it though)


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## cadaveca (Jun 13, 2010)

Most amps offer 2 seperate 2-channel outputs for stereo content. 

"A/B".

Those speakers have dual mono inputs, with a connecting plate joining them for when the speakers are NOT Bi-amped.

Remove the connector plate, and wire the "A" and "B" outputs from the stereo to each speaker, with "A" on top pair of conenctors, and "B" on the bottom set, and then you get teh bass speakers on thier own channel, kinda mimicking having a sub...on both the left and right channels.


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## shevanel (Jun 14, 2010)

Ahh thats exactly what he was saying. dunno if this amp does that.

I just got home from orlando with teh receiver. now i gotta goto walmart and see if they have decent speaker wire...

edditt

just got back with 14ga speaker wire, the cheap stuff! $12

About to get this fired up and see how this onkyo does


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## shevanel (Jun 14, 2010)

LOL I feel so nooB.

I don't have a 3.5mm to rca adapter tonight and the one I own is at work so I am using optical out from the front bay of the pc to the optical in on the rear of the onkyo but dammit I cannot get any sound.....

I hit digital button and chose optical #1 and the receiver is on DVD (no othe roption i see yet)

Any tips?


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## mdsx1950 (Jun 14, 2010)

I'm guessing you didn't see my post. Why dont you check on the Creative Gigaworks T3? Its a little over your budget but its really awesome.


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 14, 2010)

mdsx1950 said:


> I'm guessing you didn't see my post. Why dont you check on the Creative Gigaworks T3? Its a little over your budget but its really awesome.



hes alrady bought new speakers? and they look AWSOME 






To OP,
if your playing music from your PC over optical, make sure you have the default sound device set at optical out.


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## shevanel (Jun 14, 2010)

Sometimes you have to unwire the receiver so you can remove it from the top of the pc case, then you need to open the case and connect the 4 pin power plug to the drive bay so you see light come from the optical cable... LOL I am so dumb... but then again I missed a good nights sleep last night... sound is working. Cant really blast it tonight cuz I just got it working.. and roomate went to bed.

*I have a wierd question though, the R speaker tower is about a few feet from a small window AC the speaker is turned towards me slighty so there is air being deflected off the tower, should I be worried about the ac ruining anything from maybe condensation or anything?*

I'm so glad I bought these, even at super low volume the music is just so detailed and sounds fantastic.. I so cannot wait until tomorrow when no one is here so I can see what these speakers can put out from this donkey-o.. Ive never owned anything that made the listening experience so great, I am so glad you guys suggested this route and Im so glad I didn't go cheap and get those Promedias even though I'm sure they sound great but I am happy with this and I feel I still got my monies worth even though I spent 2x's my original budget I feel I have something that will give me a great listening experience for years to come.

Tomorrow Ill do some cable clean up down there.. yikes.

http://www.techpowerup.org/uploaded.php?file=100614/spekies.jpg


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## mdsx1950 (Jun 14, 2010)

slyfox2151 said:


> hes alrady bought new speakers? and they look AWSOME



Oh alright. I didn't read the whole thread.


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## Wile E (Jun 14, 2010)

shevanel said:


> Sometimes you have to unwire the receiver so you can remove it from the top of the pc case, then you need to open the case and connect the 4 pin power plug to the drive bay so you see light come from the optical cable... LOL I am so dumb... but then again I missed a good nights sleep last night... sound is working. Cant really blast it tonight cuz I just got it working.. and roomate went to bed.
> 
> *I have a wierd question though, the R speaker tower is about a few feet from a small window AC the speaker is turned towards me slighty so there is air being deflected off the tower, should I be worried about the ac ruining anything from maybe condensation or anything?*
> 
> ...



Your speaker will be fine there.

Now, all you have to do is but 2 more Beta 50's (Good choice on the speakers, btw), a voice matched Infinity center channel, and a decent sub, and you have not just a kick ass music rig, but also a kick ass movie/game rig.


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## jfgwapo (Jun 14, 2010)

I think the best sounding 2.1 for Music is Altec Lansing MX5021, which I own right now (love your own).

I used to have a Klisch ProMedia 5.1 THX, it died on me after using it for 5 months. Busted amp on the sub. I'll pass on Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 because of ProMedia's reliability issues.

PS: My 1st post =)


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## shevanel (Jun 14, 2010)

Wile E said:


> Your speaker will be fine there.
> 
> Now, all you have to do is but 2 more Beta 50's (Good choice on the speakers, btw), a voice matched Infinity center channel, and a decent sub, and you have not just a kick ass music rig, but also a kick ass movie/game rig.



lol dude my room is way to small... its already hard to breath


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## Dent1 (Jun 14, 2010)

shevanel said:


> lol dude my room is way to small... its already hard to breath



shevanel,

I am glad that you're enjoying your new set up. How is the bass without the sub? have you had a chance to tweak the receiver yet?


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## shevanel (Jun 14, 2010)

I had to turn the bass down because it was too friggin much!! LOL

I was jammin out and my pens on the the desk were rolling off.. change jar jinglin'.. it's bad ass!

I had it cranked though... now I have it set as balanced as I believe it needs to be for me. What I love most is I don't even have to use a crossover at all.. running it FLAT and it sounds perfect... I used to have to make custom profiles in my EQ panel for different types of Music or Albums.. Not on this setup! 

I love how the speakers are spread apart but I can hear the vocals coming from behind my Monitor which sits on my desk in between the speakers. 

I had to use an optical cable from the drive bay of the Audigy Zs output to the receiver because the 3.55mm-to-RCA is at work.. I go back to work tomorrow so I'll grab it.. I doubt it'll make any difference but I need to use this optical cable for the Astro A40 Mixamp and they cost too much to buy a second.

Thanks again.


P.s 

It's wierd to take the balance slider and move it left and right and it seems as if the singers head is just floating side to side lol


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## cadaveca (Jun 14, 2010)

Here's a PRO AUDIO TIP:

For proper stereo seperation, you need to space speakers 6 feet apart.(I'm one of those guys that measures speakers distance to the mm, angles, and all that too)

I have nothing else to add that hasn't been said before. I'm very glad you took the advice to go with the Infinity Beta's...I listed after them for quite some time myself.

Wile E is right though, another set and a center, and you'd enver need to buy another set of speakers in your lifetime...they ARE truly that good...Yes, there are better, but not @ the $300 you paid for those.

It's money well spent...really.

I suggest *always* using the optical out of the sound card. Then the receiver will do the audio processing, and should do far better than the audiocard. If the card sports Dolby Headphone, you may want to give that a try as well, as you're running stereo anyway.


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## shevanel (Jun 14, 2010)

Ok cool cad, thanks for that much appreciated info. That makes a ton of sense. 

I do however have the speakers about 6.5 feet apart.. if i extend my arms they seem to be slightly past my reach and Im about 6ft. I have the about 6" from the wall and turn trowards me just a teeny bit... Only thing I have to deal with is the right speakers lower half is block by my bed but its all good.

Also, Ive been trying to figure out what the level calibration setting are for?

I have L+R channel set at +1dB simply because I don't have to turn the volume up as much... what are the settings actually for?


I'm going to tidy up those cords really soon, packing up hardware for the post office atm...


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## cadaveca (Jun 14, 2010)

Level Calibration: That's for when you are using mis-matched speakers(so that smaller speakers output the same volume as larger ones). Leave it at default, and use the volume knob.

And yeah, i took a look at your pic, and you probably got it covered. It's one of the major reasons for the good stereo representation you are experiencing. the one thing I would do is pull the desk a bit away form the wall, and leave about 6 inches between the back of the speaker and the wall, and this is more important is you have rear-ported speakers (although I personally won't buy a speaker with front ports now).


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## shevanel (Jun 14, 2010)

Ok one last question.. Do you think the optical coming from the drive in the front is lesser than sound cards with the optical coming from the back of the sound card directly using the adapter?

I am removing this Audigy Zs and Im getting my XFi champion back(buyer didnt see he lacked a pci slot, whoops)... since Im using a receiver like this does it matter which sound card I have?

I have yet to run thse Bi-amped tho... still a little uncertain as to how to set it up on the Rec. end.. Ill google some about it soon.


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## cadaveca (Jun 14, 2010)

No, sound card doesn't matter, really. Some cards do not offer Dolby encoding though, so you might want to keep that in mind...Dolby encoding isn't 100% required, but some games do benefit from it. I'm currently using the onboard digi out to my receiver...I do notice a difference on analogue, but not digital.


Which optical output you use shouldn't matter either, depending on where the signal is encoded...if it's done in the bay, the audio may be prone to interference from power supply cables, but you'd notice that problem for sure, when vga is loaded, or with mouse movement...etc...


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## shevanel (Jun 14, 2010)

Ok cool.. Those were just  a few things I was curious about.. Whenever I lack experience in something I always have questions just to be sure there isn't a better way for it to be done.

Thanks again

I'll keep the bay drive style card though, I like the thought of just pulling the optical from the front input of the Rec. and into the A40 mixmp whenever Im using the headset.


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## cadaveca (Jun 14, 2010)

No problem. I've got a TONNES of general knowledge about this sort of stuff...enough for us, anyway. Being a musician, audio is VERY important to me, but there are a couple of other musicians here too. But I'm the sort of musician that like to tweak his tools; some musicians jsut know how to play thier instrument(not that I think that of those here, just as a qualifying example).


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## shevanel (Jun 14, 2010)

Ive known a 1000 musicians in my life and I know exactly what you mean!


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## cadaveca (Jun 14, 2010)

Heh. So does the local music shop...I've gone through.....I've gone through 7 guitars in the last 10 months, trying to find the sound I want. Finally got it though(funny thing too, as now my pedal board with just 5 pedals has more value than my guitar...still playing a Gibby Les paul, even.)


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## majestic12 (Jun 14, 2010)

Gotta love those Infinity Beta series.  Can't go wrong with dual 8" speakers in each tower -I wish I could fit something like that in my apartment here in Japan.  Nice setup though.  Infinitely better than normal computer speakers!


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## Wile E (Jun 15, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> Here's a PRO AUDIO TIP:
> 
> For proper stereo seperation, you need to space speakers 6 feet apart.(I'm one of those guys that measures speakers distance to the mm, angles, and all that too)
> 
> ...


Not always true. My forte decodes better than most mid to low range receivers.

Not to mention, optical can't do TrueHD or Master Audio or multi channel 24/96 pcm. Only HDMI or analog outs will allow that. Not that that particular situation applies here at the moment anyway, but just making the point.

For a 2.0 setup on the Audigy, the optical may be better, but if he needs the optical for something else, then analog will be fine for the PC.

I suggest buying an Auzentech Forte next, and being blown away by the difference. I went from an Audigy 2ZS, which is better than any on board, to a Forte, and I was blown away by the difference.



shevanel said:


> Ok one last question.. Do you think the optical coming from the drive in the front is lesser than sound cards with the optical coming from the back of the sound card directly using the adapter?
> 
> I am removing this Audigy Zs and Im getting my XFi champion back(buyer didnt see he lacked a pci slot, whoops)... since Im using a receiver like this does it matter which sound card I have?
> 
> I have yet to run thse Bi-amped tho... still a little uncertain as to how to set it up on the Rec. end.. Ill google some about it soon.


See above. Sound card can make a difference. Mostly thru analog tho. And it doesn't matter what optical you use. There is no quality loss by using the front optical. It's an all digital signal, or at least it should be.


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## cadaveca (Jun 15, 2010)

Yeah, you bet. you'll find I've made the same comments elsewhere.


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## shevanel (Jun 15, 2010)

I'm glad you guys aren't lurking to pron forums and have stopped by because I have been reading or trying to find enough quality material to read regarding this bi-amping...  

I've hear alot of people say it's uselss.. a few say it helps..

In one thread I only found one good comment about bi-amping and it was this



Spoiler






> So...instead of just listening to other peoples' opinions on this forum (and not knowing if they have actually did a comparison between bi-amping or not or if they are just regurgitating someone else's remarks they've read elsewhere), I decided to do the test on my own here. Remember, I'm walking into this not knowing if I will hear a difference since opinions vary here, so I'm not biased one way or another.
> 
> My conclusion: those of you who say there is no difference with passive bi-amping need to clean their ears. There is a difference, although I'm having a difficult time interpreting just why this difference exists. It's not subtle either, and honestly, I'm not used to my audio sounding this way so I don't know how to interpret it. It's very different...
> 
> ...







But after that peice the other "higher post count type of multi-quote" users were beggining to bash his theory...


Anyways, after reading that I want to try this bi-amp but I don't understand where the high pass section wires are supposed to go into the reciever.. Do they plug up into the Zone 2 section of the Rec. These are not the big screw type but the old school spring loaded push in type, is there where I want to connect or do I want to connect elsewhere?

LOL, sorry but I tried..


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## Wile E (Jun 15, 2010)

My Onkyo lets me reroute my side surround channels for Bi-amping, at the expense of the loss of side surround. Otherwise, Zone2 is probably your option.


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## shevanel (Jun 15, 2010)

Well, I just learned this 603 isn't bi-ampable or bi-wireable able able... echoes... too much music lol

Im kind of glad to be honest, I am a tweaker and sometimes I lose to much sleep trying to tweak things and now I don't have to waste time trying something that wasn't going to work.. phew.. it would been like the time i tried to oc my i7 to 4.5 and it just wasn't gonna happen

I'm just going to get a center speaker soon and use zone 2 for either wireless speakers or a small set of bookshelf speakers for just basic sound when I dont run the 50's

Then maybe a sub..

Ok, I guess  this is the end.

Thanks.


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## cadaveca (Jun 15, 2010)

OK, so to properly explain bi-amping here...your speaker has the top two cones and the bottom two cones wired in parallel. Each pair is wired in series.

Bi-amping will allow you to diconnect the parallel connection, and run each set of cones independantly.

One pair is the subwoofers, the other is the mid and the tweeter.

That's the speakers.

Now the amp:

One channel is typically 100w in your avg amp.



Anyway, to put it very clearly and bluntly...

Bi-amping pushes twice the power through the speaker. It also changes the amps circuit...instead of the load of all 4 speakers, it is only pushing 2 per channel, using your speakers as reference.

So, single connection would give you 100W. Worstcase avg, bi-amping would give you 120w.

Using both A/B channels usually results in a 20-40% drop in output, or sometimes none, depending on the amp. Some amps also lose total channel power when run in surround, too...but that's not important here.

Now, so, amps tend to "break up" as they get pushed towards the high limits, so if you've got one of those amps that drops down to 60w per channel, there's a good chance that bi-amping would suck, as the amp would be closer to the limit for the same volume.

However, in good amps, or in using seperate amps per channel, bi-amping will allow for more accurate voicing, as each channel has less load, and having twice the power means that overall volume can be less, further allowing room for the amp to "stretch it's legs".

So, to push it further, properly bi-amped, you can customize the output of each of channels, and maybe boost bass, without it affecting mids and highs, or vice versa, depending on what you like.

*It's totally not nessecary, and with crappy equipment, can actually change things for the worse. Hence the comments you've found.*


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## shevanel (Jun 15, 2010)

Now I am thinking about getting a different receiver. This one is good but I don't think it's good enough to run these speakers to unleash their full potential. medium to Medium-high is good but higher volumes I can start to hear this amp fall behind and the clarity starts to get lost

I'm thinking maybe try and score a nice stereo 150x2 or another non 2 chan with >125w per chan


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## Dent1 (Jun 15, 2010)

shevanel said:


> Now I am thinking about getting a different receiver. This one is good but I don't think it's good enough to run these speakers to unleash their full potential. medium to Medium-high is good but higher volumes I can start to hear this amp fall behind and the clarity starts to get lost
> 
> I'm thinking maybe try and score a nice stereo 150x2 or another non 2 chan with >125w per chan



It will not make any difference, if you change your receiver or apply bi-amping and it will be a waste, arguments about whether biamping is useful or not has been going on for at least a decade in the AV community and its really a subjective matter of opinion and you'd need to be somewhat of audio anorak to even care. The chances are the difference is so small that you'd need enthusiast grade equipment to take advantage i.e. speakers + AV equipment >$2,000 - $20,000, a perfectly set up home cinema room.

That receiver is more than enough for the speakers, that receiver was somewhat high end before the new HD standards came about a few years ago.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/memb...1228760-my-new-home-cinema-refurbishment.html

http://www.avforums.com/forums/members-home-cinema-gallery/1044020-my-corner-av-heaven.html


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## Dent1 (Jun 17, 2010)

I've had time to reflect on my last post. Maybe bi-wiring is an avenue worth trying, the only investment is another pair of cables. I am curious to find out whether it improves your listening pleasure on your particular set up.


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

Dent1 said:


> I've had time to reflect on my last post. Maybe bi-wiring is an avenue worth trying, the only investment is another pair of cables. I am curious to find out whether it improves your listening pleasure on your particular set up.



I was just reading my manual for the beta 50's and aside from the bi-amp section using 2 receivers or a bi-amp ready receiver there was a section on bi-*wiring*

It shows a diagram of the L + R speakers with the top two posts labeled as Hf and the bottom two posts as Lf.. Then from the L+R output of the receiver it shows 2x2 speaker leads coming from each output, one going to the Hf and one to the Lf for each side.

How does this work* since the output to the Lf+Hf posts are still coming from a single receiver output*, is it or isn't it not the same as if the bracket was connecting the bottom 2 posts to the top 2 since it's coming for the single channel?

It does not make sense to me.. unless the frequency the top Hf is recieving will be reproduced differently and not fed from the LF


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## Dent1 (Jun 17, 2010)

Interesting watch:

http://img.techpowerup.org/100617/50s.jpg[/QUOTE]


This explains it better than I ever could. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiMPZZjryis

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWGTnpj0Ixo


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## Dent1 (Jun 17, 2010)

shevanel said:


> I was just reading my manual for the beta 50's and aside from the bi-amp section using 2 receivers or a bi-amp ready receiver there was a section on bi-*wiring*
> 
> It shows a diagram of the L + R speakers with the top two posts labeled as Hf and the bottom two posts as Lf.. Then from the L+R output of the receiver it shows 2x2 speaker leads coming from each output, one going to the Hf and one to the Lf for each side.
> 
> ...



I will try to answer your question. The difference from running two separate cables is that it allows the receiver to control the woofer and the tweeter independently. The low frequencies (LF) is the woofer whilst the high frequencies (HF) is the  tweeter. When the bracket is installed I would presume that this independent control of the LF and HF is lost. For example if you were watching a DVD and a particular scene was mixed to send a lot LF of bass during a explosion with high frequencies sounds of people screaming, on a non bi-wired fronts with brackets installed the bass might make the screams difficult to hear over the bass whereas on bi-wired speakers the high frequencies screams from the HF and LF can be outputted as if the woofer and tweeters were individual speakers and hence adding clarity. Also it allows for better collaboration on your receiver, for example if you had crossover enabled to send the LFE from the subwoofer above or below say 40 Hz to redirect to the fronts, the front might become really bassy because its substituting the subwoofer and as a result the HF front tweeters might be drowned out, but on a bi-wire configuration you could increase the HF independently maybe through the equalizer on the receiver whilst not compromising the bass on the crossover.

The best I could explain, but I am no hardcore audiophile from A forum


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

Bi-Wiring is a waste of wire, without seperate channels.

Your thoughts are totally right, Shev.


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## Dent1 (Jun 17, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> Bi-Wiring is a waste of wire, without seperate channels.
> 
> Your thoughts are totally right, Shev.



I sort of agree. On AV forum your comment would start a 20 page flame war lol


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

I could care less if it did...I know it's right.


I avoid A/V forums like the plague...far too many people think they know thier stuff becase they bought some gear.

As a musician, I have a higher-order understanding of music itself, so my only concern when it comes to audio, is accurate reproduction.

So, I play guitar/bass, keyboards, drums, and trumpet. I can record my own songs, and when I play them back, I expect things to sound EXACTLY as they were when played live.

And with that in mind, while I know a bit about surround stuff, my main focus is on stereo reproduction. I don't record in surround, so it's only use for me is for movies.

All my comments are based on my own personal search for accurate reproduction of my own music.

And music for me, is a tool. I strive to cause emotional reactions with my music, and that cannot happen without decent playback...but at the same time, I have to consider all set-ups, to keep my audience. As such, I really do need to know a bit about this stuff, but at the same time, there's going to be TONNES of stuff I just don't know about...


In the end, this stuff here is pretty basic. There's no "magic" involved...it's a very simple audio circuit. "Bi-wiring" doesn't change the circuit...not drastically, not sonically, however, the extra wire can be another place where interference can enter the circuit, and as such, I consider it a waste.


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## joeyck (Jun 17, 2010)

brandonwh64 said:


> I have this as my speaker system!! i have two extra speakers for mids!
> 
> http://www.hctkorea.co.kr/mall/upload/goods/c71924_146$1$NE-288.jpg
> 
> ...




dam thats awesome!


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

I am not writing this to dispute you Cad, I agree with what you've said and it makes the most sense but one thing I did read that made sense and probably the only thing that made sense when it comes to bi-wiring is..



> In some speakers the connectors for the low-frequency (bass) driver and the high-frequency (treble) tweeter are separated out, being linked only by short metal plates that can be easily removed. By using twin runs of speaker cable from amplifier to speaker, it's possible to address each set of drive units independently of the other.





> What benefits can you expect? Bi-wiring doesn't influence volume, bass depth or even midrange punch typically, it improves stereo imaging and focus, detail retrieval and timing, although the effects aren't always uniform.



That was from B&W's site, and another site basically set the same thing that the LF & HF sets do not have to confusingly share the same single, frequencies do not get mixed up and therefore may cause enhanced imaging and clarity in some speaker sets or configurations because the LF and HF speakers are receiving their own dedicated input and it separates the confusion between LF and HF wired speakers because each driver will produce the sound form the signal as it was intended to do instead of low and highs using the same signal. or something..

Since I have enough wire to try it I am going to.. what do I have to lose and I am the kinda guy that believes you'll never know what happens if you don't try..


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## hat (Jun 17, 2010)

Bi-wiring is unnescessary (there's a copper bridge between the two posts to carry the signal if you're not going to actually use both). You need a reciever made to use bi-wiring to make any good use of it, if you just run both wires to the same spot on the reciever it could make it sound funny.

Probably a bit late to the party for this.. but I just got a half broken reciever (has a cd player that won't work and the display is very dark... need a flashlight to see what's going on lol) and one working speaker (going to attempt to fix the other...) and I'm currently using it for my radio. It's the best radio I've ever heard, even with the single crappy speaker.


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

shevanel said:


> I am not writing this to dispute you Cad, I agree with what you've said and it makes the most sense but one thing I did read that made sense and probably the only thing that made sense when it comes to bi-wiring is..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hear ya, but if you read the full thing @ B&W, they even mention:



> although some hi-fi amps now provide for independent output connectors, one pair for treble, the other for bass, to simplify wiring. This will mean you have a total of four sets of speaker cables running from your amp to your speakers.



OK, I can agree with that...



> Bi-wiring doesn't influence volume, bass depth or even midrange punch typically, it improves stereo imaging and focus, detail retrieval and timing, although the effects aren't always uniform.



Stereo imaging is NOT going to be affected by this. All "Bi-Wiring" does is move the joint from the speaker to the amp! It's not any different electrically!

If the circuit isn't changed, how would sound be affected? Stereo imaging is more affected by speaker placement relative to the listening position, unless using Dolby effects.


Of course, I could be wrong...

But let me use this as an example...

Would adding a second connector to an exisiting PCI-E 6-pin connector, so that the two plug meet the same imput on the vga, affect anything, if the cables both came from the same rail?

BTW, I have tested "Bi-wiring" and did not notice any difference at all, even using extreme high-end NAD amps. I've even gone into many "boutique" shops here in town, and tried it with thier equipment(boutique shops are a great place to test out equipment).

Any respect I had for B&W is now gone...:shadedshu


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

> Any respect I had for B&W is now gone...:shadedshu



Yeah, but infinity and klipsche say it too..

It's almost like when people dispute the difference between DDR2-DDR3 @ same speed or 1t or 2T or tight timings vs mem speed... lmao

Let me ask this...

aAre the 5.25" and 1" tweeter tuned to use frequencies that the two 8" speakers are tuned differently for?

As if to say, an Ati 5870 in pciex # 1 uses  power differently than a 9800gt in pcie #2 for physx?

Maybe not a good example, it's def something that is very confusing but at the same time it's mysterious enough to cause mass confusion.. I don't know.

Unless there was a crossover built into the beta I do not see how the affect of using 2 leads vs 1 lead could be any differenty because IMO using the brass plate to connect the poles is no differernt than using 2 wires for the same affect, or is it the same? What if the speakers have there own "clean" signal and the speaker uses that signal more or less than the other speaker...

OMG trying to understand how the seperation of speaker wire is beneficial is alot harder than saying the brass plate or seperate wires still sends the same signal.. does it? why? and if it doesn't then is it because a speaker is going to use it's signal (100% perfectly the way it should) no mater if it's on a dedicated lead or or not. 

LOL

im not trying to debate bi-wiring because I do not know one way or another.. Im just trying to understand how speakers operate and how the use the signal theyre given.. and if a single lead detioriates sound when many different speakers are using the same lead or do speakers have the ability to use it's signal the way it was meant to, regardless of what else is connected.


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

Yeah, I hear ya, for sure.

So, the subs should be on an internal crossover(inside the speaker itself), same with the mid/tweeter. And yes, they are balanced against one another.

The seperate inputs for both are specifically there for BI-AMPING, as this will increase the total power you can deliver to the speaker. It's the only real way to push a full 250w through the speaker, as even most high-end amps don't even offer that much power. This way, these speakers can be used in a much larger room...however, fr smalelr rooms, you need less power, so the terminals are linked for such situations.


Seems to me, they put in the bi-wire info there to appease those that believe such will have any effect. Marketing fluff, and nothing else.


In the end, I think you should try it out, and see if you notice an difference! And then let us know! Won't take too long to do...you got the wire...so tell us how it works with your own set-up!


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

I AM the type of person that can tell the difference in something when it changes, especially when I am very familiar with the way I usually perceive things or see things.

Especially in audio/video.. it doesn't mean I always understand the difference or if the difference is better or worse.. but I def can tell when something has changed. 

I'm going to listen to a song 2-3 times.. then Im going to do the bi-wire and listen to the same song. If the difference isn't subtle I will most likely notice.. maybe.

I have noticed that the drums other than the (kick drum and floor tom) lack alot of clarity.. and electric guitars do not sound as far front as acoustic guitars do..

Anyways, Ill report back soon and let you know my findings.

danke!

*EDIT:

ALSO!!

A site said that my speaker leads to each speak must be the same length! Is this true? What if one is longer by a foot or 2?*


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## theonedub (Jun 17, 2010)

This whole thing reminds me a lot of active Vs passive crossovers in car audio. 

In passive you run a single channel of the amp to a component set (woofer+tweeter) where a basic crossover will separate the sounds to the speakers. 

In active you run the tweeter and woofer off *separate amplifier channels*. Instead of using a crossover at the speakers the headunit/receiver/amplifier does the filtering. 

I think you are right on in thinking that two runs of wire off one channel is the same thing as having that plate on there. True bi-amping might have a small difference in quality, but probably nothing that will be worth the amount of money to get it all setup.


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

shevanel said:


> *EDIT:
> 
> ALSO!!
> 
> A site said that my speaker leads to each speak must be the same length! Is this true? What if one is longer by a foot or 2?*



Yes, the definately should be the same length.

Kick and floor tom are a bit weak due to 35hz limit of speaker.


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## hat (Jun 17, 2010)

The speaker wires need to be the same length? What about rear speakers? Natrually they would have longer wires than the fronts... my 5.1 pc speaker set is like this... the rear speakers have hugely long wires, but the fronts have relatively short wires...


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

theonedub said:


> This whole thing reminds me a lot of active Vs passive crossovers in car audio.
> 
> In passive you run a single channel of the amp to a component set (woofer+tweeter) where a basic crossover will separate the sounds to the speakers.
> 
> ...





cadaveca said:


> Yes, the definately should be the same length.
> 
> Kick and floor tom are a bit weak due to 35hz limit of speaker.



Kick and tom are most prominent over here... maybe a need a song that is great for the test.

NO EQ, bass level is at 0 and treble is @ +2.. no bass boost.. nothing.


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

Then I suggest back of the bass level a bit.

The best thing to do is to use a song you are very familiar with, like your favorites...as you'll know them well already. Same when testing out video...you want to use something you are familiar with, and there is no real "standard", as everyone mixes thier music/video a bit differently.

I have my bass backed off 6db, and sub volume @ 2 of 10. The environs of your set-up will affect sound too.

Personally, I like to not boost any levels, and back off the ones that are overly dramatic.


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

I use claptons layla unplugged, pantera floods and a perfect circles vanishing or 46&2 by tool.. IMO floods is well mixed has great tight bass and redic highs due to his guitar style

for metal I use a variety of different tracks but most of them have weak production.


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

hat said:


> The speaker wires need to be the same length? What about rear speakers? Natrually they would have longer wires than the fronts... my 5.1 pc speaker set is like this... the rear speakers have hugely long wires, but the fronts have relatively short wires...



You want to keep left/right pairs with equal lengths of wire. Wire has a bit of capacitance, that increases over length, so to ensure the same signal reaches both sides of each pair, you need to keep the circuits the same....like how they need to keep mem traces the same length...likewise, over great distances, it's possible that stereo field can be broken if the signal takes marginally longer to travel down the wire...but that's really hard to guage...

Rear/front are not matched pairs. the reproduce differnet audio, so it's not nessecary to keep rears with the same length as fronts, although I have experimented with that as well.


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

1 speaker done... won't be long.


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

I don't know how and I don't know why but it DOES sound clearer!

It sounds better. The sound is more distinguished and more clarity coming from the top part of the speakers and all the space in between the speakers seem much more full. Almost as if I am wearing headphones and I can hear the smallest little detail. I can even hear fingers sliding on the guitar strings much more clearly.

Claptons voice fills the room and it's not behind the music it sounds in front of it. I can hear the snare much clearer than before. All the guitars sound clearer.

The balance is much better, it really is..

Even if this is placebo I am keeping it like this, to me it really really does sound cleaner and clearer. Even backing vocals sound a distance apart from where I am hearing the main vocals. 

I don't know guys.. It sounds good. It actually sounds really good.


edit: yeah the clarity has def. increased I just listened to a song that usually sounded watered on these speakers and it just sounded great. The FRIGGIN snare drum on the blast beats is right in my face!!!

making my eyes water from the emotion of the music it sounds so great


Damn the only thing I can think of is the 5.25+1" is not running in parallel to the 2 8"s and just doing their own thing compared to before... you might think Im crazy but the biggest difference is in the snare + vocals mainly.. the bass + kick drum seem more defined.


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

Huh. Interesting. I say it's all in your head.  

Not serious, BTW, I just find it really odd. But if you like it, then good!

EDIT: Make sure that speakers are connected properly in polarity, to me, sounds like maybe you had an out of phase connection.


 and in the end, you've got far better sound than any pc speaker could have provided. As long as you enjoy it, that's all that matters!


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

I do notice that bass is less now.. it doesnt seem as bassy.. there is bass, but now it sounds like the highs over throw the bass dept. and  I need to add a subwoofer.. before I changed it everything had a nice lowend sound which I do like it kinda bassy, not hip hop bassy but enough bass to feel the kick.. now it just seems more balanced.. and the vocals stand out more and Im throwing a variety of music at it.

Polarity is perfect. I made sure to check all ends prior to connecting.

Maybe what I am experiencing is the speaker wire length.. the left speakers lead was 10 inches longer before I re-did it.

In floods I now hear this annoying string rattle that wasnt there before.. he hits a note and the sting vibrates off the fret... its low and int eh background but now i can hear it.. MEH.. it's only between :10 and 40 seconds into the song

Also I set my max volume at 65 because 70 seemed too dirty and sounded like distortion .. now Im at 70 and the distortion isnt there it still sounds clear but friggin loud as hell


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

Yeah, more likely to be wire length. But hey, maybe bi-wire works well with those speakers, or something. 

Mabye try the other way with the shorter wire too...I'm quite curious now.


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

Let me ask this.

If I had 3 speakers in a box playing from one signal would all three speakers vibrate and move in/out at the same pace?


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

Depends....need more info..box design, speakers, etc..


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

well i was just curious because I was feeling the speakers as they were playing and the 5.25's do not do what the 8"'s do as far as movment


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

They are different speakers...8's are bass, 5.25 mids, they produce different frequecies, so naturally move differently to acheive this.


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

but they moved the same before


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

That doesn't make any sense. Interesting, nonetheless.


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## shevanel (Jun 17, 2010)

None of this makes any sense. I'm boggled by it looking at it from a techinal point of view and trying to understand what is going on.

Im going to listen to it like this for a few days, then Im going to put the brackets back on and run it as if it were the way it was and Im going to listen to see if Im missing anything or if all the music is as it was without anything not appearing to be there any longer.

What is taken away in life is sometimes more memorable than what is given, sometimes.


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

Well, it's odd, only becuase 8's get only stuff lower than 600hz, due to crossover, and mids get 3200hz down to 600. So literally, they should NOT have "moved" in the same fashion.

It's more than possible bi-wire makes a difference, but only due to capacitance offered by the wire. Since this capacitance is very small, you'd think there would be little effect, but as always, there may be more to this than meets the eye.


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## Dent1 (Jun 17, 2010)

Maybe the improvement lays in the fact that the metal brackets were not good conductors. The two wires might be of a better quality than the brackets and hence have better resistance resulting in improved quality.


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## cadaveca (Jun 17, 2010)

Hmm, very interesting thought, Dent1. this can be checked simply by using wire between the posts rather than the plates.


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## Wile E (Jun 18, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> I could care less if it did...I know it's right.
> 
> 
> I avoid A/V forums like the plague...far too many people think they know thier stuff becase they bought some gear.
> ...


It is a waste. All it does is lower the resistance of the cable run. Higher (numerically lower) gauge wire provides the same results as bi-wiring.

For the wattage he is putting out, he won't see any benefits from anything larger than 16 gauge on a short run like that, or maybe 14 gauge on a long run.

I have the same music background as you, btw. lol. (Well, minus boards and trumpet)



shevanel said:


> I am not writing this to dispute you Cad, I agree with what you've said and it makes the most sense but one thing I did read that made sense and probably the only thing that made sense when it comes to bi-wiring is..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are confusing Bi-wiring and Bi-amping. What they describe there is Bi-amping.


hat said:


> The speaker wires need to be the same length? What about rear speakers? Natrually they would have longer wires than the fronts... my 5.1 pc speaker set is like this... the rear speakers have hugely long wires, but the fronts have relatively short wires...



Front and rear aren't paired together, and surround setups have delay settings for the rear channels. 



shevanel said:


> I don't know how and I don't know why but it DOES sound clearer!
> 
> It sounds better. The sound is more distinguished and more clarity coming from the top part of the speakers and all the space in between the speakers seem much more full. Almost as if I am wearing headphones and I can hear the smallest little detail. I can even hear fingers sliding on the guitar strings much more clearly.
> 
> ...


You needed heavier speaker cable. Any change in sound will be from a change in resistance.


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## shevanel (Jun 18, 2010)

Ok cool, makes sense to me..

I'm only using the cheapo 12ga walmart stuff.

I am going to order some wire from newegg with the banana clip thingies..

I'll post a few links soon, maybe someone can suggest the best bang for buck product.

For starters maybe just a 2 sets of these Cables Unlimited - Pro A/V Series 16GA Speaker Wir...

Im going to run the bi-wire style setup whether it's beneficial or not. It's not like it made it worse.


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## Wile E (Jun 18, 2010)

12ga should be plenty. I'm sorry, and I don't mean this to be insulting in any way, but I'm gonna have to say placebo effect. Bi-wiring won't make a difference unless those terminal bridges are really high resistance.

12ga walmart stuff is better than 16ga premium stuff. Just buy banana plugs and do it yourself.


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## shevanel (Jun 18, 2010)

Ok sounds good, I'll just hit up walmart for another spool of that cheapo $12 12ga stuff.. I chopped these leads up to short and I move the receiver so now I barely have any slack.. I would  run to walmart tonight but I already know they do not carry b-plugs so I'll wait and get some with this newegg order I have to make on a few cases.

*With the b-plugs, do I just slide in wire and crimp it? Never used em.. should I just use them on the speakers or the Rec. too?*

It's hard to call placebo on this one bec. I really do notice a difference mainly in the vocals and higher frequencies ... I'm not going to debate it or anything, I respect you guys enough to not question your opinions and knowledge but I look at it this way - it's only 2 extra leads, and it cannot make the sound worse right?


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## Wile E (Jun 18, 2010)

shevanel said:


> Ok sounds good, I'll just hit up walmart for another spool of that cheapo $12 12ga stuff.. I chopped these leads up to short and I move the receiver so now I barely have any slack.. I would  run to walmart tonight but I already know they do not carry b-plugs so I'll wait and get some with this newegg order I have to make on a few cases.
> 
> *With the b-plugs, do I just slide in wire and crimp it? Never used em.. should I just use them on the speakers or the Rec. too?*
> 
> It's hard to call placebo on this one bec. I really do notice a difference mainly in the vocals and higher frequencies ... I'm not going to debate it or anything, I respect you guys enough to not question your opinions and knowledge but I look at it this way - it's only 2 extra leads, and it cannot make the sound worse right?



Depends on the type of banana plugs you get. Some are crimp on, some are set screw with a cover, etc., etc. 

Good place for screw on (bottom 4): http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115


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## shevanel (Jun 22, 2010)

Ok, so today I bought 12ga wire, the round kind with thick inner wires.. I bought a spool of red and a spool of black and ran them to the speakers with only one lead and I put those brackets back on and I swear it does not sound as good as it did.. the detail is gone again like before.

I don't have enough line to do bi-wire and I am going to have to because this just doesn't sound like it did and I instantly noticed the difference.

Do you really think it could be something to do with the brackets not being good enough or the internal crossovers working better with the signal divided between all the speakers?


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## Wile E (Jun 22, 2010)

Gotta be a design flaw in the speakers themselves. Technically, the only thing changed by bi-wiring is resistance.


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## MohawkAngel (Jun 22, 2010)

Hi. I just tought it could help you if i posted my setup. 
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?p=1933192#post1933192

I am having 3 way boxes. The important is to find a speaker set with low, medium, high separated very low frequency for sub and high frequency for tweeter. The middle imo is less important cause you can always modifiy it with a good amp like mine or directly in the sound setup of your computer. 

Also someone posted it to me for wire gauge thickness
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm
Hoping it could help you.


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## TheMonkey (Jul 24, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> As a musician, I have a higher-order understanding of music itself, so my only concern when it comes to audio, is accurate reproduction.
> 
> So, I play guitar/bass, keyboards, drums, and trumpet. I can record my own songs, and when I play them back, I expect things to sound EXACTLY as they were when played live.
> 
> ...




Not trying to be rude or anything, but what is your "critical listening" setup?  I just have never met an educated audiophile/musician that would recommend or even consider using a AV receiver as D-A or as amplification, let alone purchase speakers such as those for a proper or accurate stereo setup.  There are many roads the OP could have taken to get much better sound within his budget.  For instance a good cheap DAC such as the one in my sig followed by a good integrated amp/power amp (used and easy to find on CL) and a nice set of popular vintage speakers (AR/Advent/DCM/ADS/Klipsch/B&O/speakerlab).  For instance my current main is my PC-->Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1 ($150)--->Akai AM2600 stereo integrated amp ($40 used on CL)---->DCM QED (rare transmission lines - $20 from GoodWill).

$210 and sounds better than anything under $2000, and I have listened to a lot of systems ranging up to 12g's.  Wish I had seen this thread earlier... oh well I think I saw someone mention that in this field ignorance is bliss, this is so true and I tell ppl that all the time.  Hope your enjoying what you've got!


I wish I had seen this thread earlier...


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## cadaveca (Jul 24, 2010)

TheMonkey said:


> Not trying to be rude or anything, but what is your "critical listening" setup?  I just have never met an educated audiophile/musician that would recommend or even consider using a AV receiver as D-A or as amplification, let alone purchase speakers such as those for a proper or accurate stereo setup.  There are many roads the OP could have taken to get much better sound within his budget.  For instance a good cheap DAC such as the one in my sig followed by a good integrated amp/power amp (used and easy to find on CL) and a nice set of popular vintage speakers (AR/Advent/DCM/ADS/Klipsch/B&O/speakerlab).  For instance my current main is my PC-->Maverick Audio Tubemagic D1 ($150)--->Akai AM2600 stereo integrated amp ($40 used on CL)---->DCM QED (rare transmission lines - $20 from GoodWill).
> 
> $210 and sounds better than anything under $2000, and I have listened to a lot of systems ranging up to 12g's.  Wish I had seen this thread earlier... oh well I think I saw someone mention that in this field ignorance is bliss, this is so true and I tell ppl that all the time.  Hope your enjoying what you've got!
> 
> ...




I didn't recommend anything. He said which is better, and I told him.






shevanel said:


> http://orlando.craigslist.org/ele/1788537509.html
> 
> this guy is like 6 minutes from my house, I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on these. /he said he is willling to negotiate as he wants some other things i have here too..
> 
> What do u guys think compared to the Polk Monitor 50's?





cadaveca said:


> The infinity speakers are better.





Go pick a different fight.

Even better, this thread was said and done a month ago...I'll reporting your post for inciting flaming,...clearly you necro'd the thread because you just wanna argue.


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## shevanel (Jul 24, 2010)

Im happy with the infinity speakers..

But I need some help on something else

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=127204

PLEASE


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## TheMonkey (Jul 24, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> I didn't recommend anything. He said which is better, and I told him.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lol ok don't answer the question.. thats all it was

I just figured someone of your "experience" would say hey man, i've been in this biz a while and thats not the best idea.... thats all

Why take such offense?


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## cadaveca (Jul 24, 2010)

You post says otherwise.  Like seriously, no worries, but please, phrase your questions carefully, if that's all they are.


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## TheMonkey (Jul 24, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> You post says otherwise.  Like seriously, no worries, but please, phrase your questions carefully, if that's all they are.




"Not trying to be rude or anything, but what is your "critical listening" setup?"

My first sentence, is this not a question to you?


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## erocker (Jul 24, 2010)

The OP's request has been fulfilled in this thread over a month ago. As he stated he now needs help with a different need here: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=127204

If anyone has a question for a particular member a freindly PM will do. No need to continue this thread that has been dead for a while.


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