# P5Q DLX to GA-EX38-DS4?



## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

*UPDATE:*

Hey guys, I now have this board set up and am looking for some help to OC it so any help would be much appreciated:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=89379






> Atm I have an Asus P5Q Deluxe, but I want to get a 9600GT running alongside a GTX 260, without hampering the performance of the GTX 260.
> 
> I.e I want my GTX 260 remain at PCI-E 2.0 x16 when the 9600GT is installed.
> 
> ...


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## MoonPig (Mar 22, 2009)

Oh yes it does have Load line calibration.

And i have no experience with Core2quads, but it handles my E8600 just fine.

I highly recommend this swap


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## Tatty_One (Mar 22, 2009)

I had a Q6600 G0 stepping on a Gigabyte x38 DQ6 and it overclocked just fine, the P45 board will probably overclock better but as your not looking (or the chips not capable) at really exceeding 3.6gig too much I think it will give you what you already have with the added benefit of 16 x16, however I dont think you will see any graphics card performance improvement at 16 x 16 against 8 x 8 with those cards, at PCI-E 2.0 even that 260 is not using anywhere near the bandwidth available.

I had an x48 for 10 days with my two HD4850 1GB Sonics (before I blew it up!) and there was no performance difference over the P45 that I got to replace the x48, in fact thats not quite true, after several 2006 runs, I actually found the P45 was 45 points slower   Of course that could simply be a background proggie.


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

Cheers for that tatty.

It just from what I have googled, 90% of stuff doesnt need x16, but some of the really intensive games do, especially ones with large memory requirments, and I want to get every last ounce of performance out of my GTX 260.


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## Ketxxx (Mar 22, 2009)

X38 = PCI-E, P45 = PCI-E 2.0. PCI-E 2.0 has many advantages over PCI-E, you would be crippling yourself using the X38 over a P45. I'll keep this post to that for now to save a plethora of questions that would likely follow if I go into detail


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

X38 is PCI-E 2.0

Does that change things?


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## Ketxxx (Mar 22, 2009)

X48 is PCI-E 2.0, I've never seen any X38 board that PCI-E 2.0.


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

http://www.giga-byte.co.uk/Support/Motherboard/Driver_Model.aspx?ProductID=2754


> Supports ATI CrossFireX™ with Dual PCI-E 2.0 x16 graphics for extreme gaming performance




http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/chipsets/x38/x38-overview.htm


> X38 Express Chipset supports new dual-channel DDR3 memory technology, next generation dualX16 PCI Express 2.0 and...


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## Ketxxx (Mar 22, 2009)

Ah thats why, board is a hybrid. I still wouldn't switch, X38 isn't a great chipset really, just a tweaked P35.


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

I thought P45 is a tweaked P35

And X48 is a high bin X38?

Intel say the X38 is PCI-E 2.0 anyway, its not just the board.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Mar 22, 2009)

p45 is the most recent of the 4 (p35 p45 x38 x48)


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## MoonPig (Mar 22, 2009)

Question:
What's the major differences between P35, X38, X48 and P45 ??


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Mar 22, 2009)

PX5 are crippled in video lanes (biggest difference)


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## Ketxxx (Mar 22, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> I thought P45 is a tweaked P35
> 
> And X48 is a high bin X38?
> 
> Intel say the X38 is PCI-E 2.0 anyway, its not just the board.



Then, intel changed something after the release of X38, X38 was a tweaked P35 for those wanting uber FSB, X48 gave new tech and all-round was better, P45 is the slightly cut down version of the X48. Eitherway, stick with your Deluxe I say, your not losing any performance.


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Mar 22, 2009)

I couldt get my X3350 to 3.6Ghz for nothing on my DFK x38. I would stick with the P45 board we both have.


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

P35

Good OC'er
16x/4x Xfire at PCI-E 1.1 + = Bad

P45

Good OC'er
8x/8x at PCI-E 2.0 = Good in most cases

X38

First chip with PCI-E 2.0
16x/16x at PCI-E 2.0 

X48

High binned X38
Possibly lower fab



@ketxxx, Intel didnt change anything, all the news articles and PR's from its launch say the key thing it brings to the table is dual X16 PCI-E 2.0
From May 2007:







I'm was just trying to work out whether to keep my P45 or not. IMO there is nothing the X38 cant give me that the P45 is giving me now.
400*9 should be more than attainable from the X38. It would be different if I wanted 500 FSB or something. Thats when the P45 comes into its own.


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## MoonPig (Mar 22, 2009)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> I couldt get my X3350 to 3.6Ghz for nothing on my DFK x38. I would stick with the P45 board we both have.



My Gigabyte can get 3.8GHz at 1.25. I havn't tried for higher, but i know it will.


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## LittleLizard (Mar 22, 2009)

yes, as alex said, the x38 has pcie 2.0 but thats not the point. if i were you i wont change as the p5q deluxe is better, even with only half the lanes, is pcie 2.0, so your 2 pcie 8 x lanes are pcie 16 x 1.0 and there are no card that can bottlencek sixteen lanes 1.0


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

LittleLizard said:


> yes, as alex said, the x38 has pcie 2.0 but thats not the point. if i were you i wont change as the p5q deluxe is better, even with only half the lanes, is pcie 2.0, so your 2 pcie 8 x lanes are pcie 16 x 1.0 and there are no card that can bottlencek sixteen lanes 1.0







These are all PCI-E 2.0 speeds

Although the other tests show virtually no drop, most show some.

I have spent a long time getting the clocks right on my GTX 260, so I really dont want to hamper its performance.


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## MoonPig (Mar 22, 2009)

Here validation if no-one believes me:






http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=532530


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

Will it do 400 FSB, on a lower multi?

Should do as it has it written on the box, lol.


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## MoonPig (Mar 22, 2009)

It keeps uploading the old one... I'll just get a screenshot.

Ok, here:


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

MoonPig said:


> It keeps uploading the old one... I'll just get a screenshot.
> 
> Ok, here:
> 
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23994&stc=1&d=1237747792



Good, good, thats what I'd be aiming for.


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## MoonPig (Mar 22, 2009)

Did it straight away, you should aim higher


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

Depends what voltages it needs to attain 3.6 GHz on a quad.


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## Ketxxx (Mar 22, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> P35
> 
> Good OC'er
> 16x/4x Xfire at PCI-E 1.1 + = Bad
> ...



Then what I read was wrong. All I have to say is meh. Never liked the X38 anyway, hot and power hungry.


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> Then what I read was wrong. All I have to say is meh. Never liked the X38 anyway, hot and power hungry.



Thats one way of putting it, lol.


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## ShadowFold (Mar 22, 2009)

What would be the point in running a 9600GT with the 260?


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## Ketxxx (Mar 22, 2009)

Theres nothing wrong with liking a chipset based on the latest fab process so its as cool as possible, means it should OC good as well


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> What would be the point in running a 9600GT with the 260?



Physx and folding.

I dont like my GTX 260 folding all the time I'm not gaming, but I'd like to still contribute.

And BM's have shown 9600GT is best bang for buck on physx and I wanted to try it out, while still getting max performance out of my GTX 260 for graphics.



Ketxxx said:


> Theres nothing wrong with liking a chipset based on the latest fab process so its as cool as possible, means it should OC good as well



Which is why I'm looking at the X38, cus I dont need the OC potential of the P45.

I've been running this q6600 on 3.2 GHz upto about amonth ago.


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## ShadowFold (Mar 22, 2009)

Ah, cool. The folding I can understand, good luck with the PhysX 
I say go for it!


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> Ah, cool. The folding I can understand, good luck with the PhysX
> I say go for it!



I want to set it up, so that folding is in the startup or something, so its always folding while im just on the internet or doing Uni work.

I have a monitor with two inputs so hopefully i wont need to make a dummy vga dongle.

IMO, more games are gonna come out with Physx, and I want to be able to try em out, without having to turn down the graphics.

In some test on Mirror's Edge, a GTX 260 on its own got 55 fps with Physx enabled. When a 9600GT was installed and setup to soley take care of the Physx, the FPS went upto 85! 
Which matched two GTX 260's in SLI.

That and I want to (sort of) have to Nvidia cards running on an Intel mobo thats not an X58


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## ShadowFold (Mar 22, 2009)

I can play ME with PhysX on, I get about 22-30 with no hardware acceleration and 60-70 with it off.


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## Ketxxx (Mar 22, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> Which is why I'm looking at the X38, cus I dont need the OC potential of the P45.
> 
> I've been running this q6600 on 3.2 GHz upto about amonth ago.



X38 chipset runs hotter than a P45 due to the fab process if I remember correctly. There were lots of complaints about a X chipset running hotter than a blast furnace.


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> I can play ME with PhysX on, I get about 22-30 with no hardware acceleration and 60-70 with it off.



Thats CPU physx tho, hence the big drop in FPS.



Ketxxx said:


> X38 chipset runs hotter than a P45 due to the fab process if I remember correctly. There were lots of complaints about a X chipset running hotter than a blast furnace.



I know it will run hotter, cus X38 = 90nm, P45 = 65nm, but I have got good case flow. 

3 x 140mm, and 4 x 120mm should be enough.


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## Black Hades (Mar 22, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> Then what I read was wrong. All I have to say is meh. Never liked the X38 anyway, hot and power hungry.



you should try the gigabyte EX38 then  the way the motherboard/components are designed, much cooler than standard. I get something like 38Celsius on my motherboard read.. btw it's ridiculously easy to OC the E8x00 to ~3,6Ghz on these boards. 

Only issue I have with Gigabyte boards so far is that my Mushkin RAM get loose timings, default voltage settings are anaemic and the other ram advanced settings are way to tight.


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

Black Hades said:


> you should try the gigabyte EX38 then  the way the motherboard/components are designed, much cooler than standard. I get something like 38Celsius on my motherboard read.. btw it's ridiculously easy to OC the E8x00 to ~3,6Ghz on these boards.
> 
> Only issue I have with Gigabyte boards so far is that my Mushkin RAM get loose timings, default voltage settings are anaemic and the other ram advanced settings are way to tight.



Just out of interest, what is the difference between the DS4 and DS5?

And do you know of any compatibility issues with OCZ ram?


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## Black Hades (Mar 22, 2009)

^^ 
DS5 has more 2 SATA ports, a much better cooler (silent pipe) and if I'm not mistaken a phase or two extra.

DS4 is more like a revision of "what can we take off to make it cheaper" much as DQ6 is the flagship with 100 extra acesories and bling. 

I'd say overclocking wise there is no major between DS5 and DS4 , I tested both up to 4Ghz with my CPU and cooler.


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## Ketxxx (Mar 22, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> Thats CPU physx tho, hence the big drop in FPS.
> I know it will run hotter, cus X38 = 90nm, P45 = 65nm, but I have got good case flow.
> 
> 3 x 140mm, and 4 x 120mm should be enough.



So your argument you made earlier you just debunked yourself  



			
				ket said:
			
		

> Theres nothing wrong with liking a chipset based on the latest fab process so its as cool as possible, means it should OC good as well





			
				alexp999 said:
			
		

> Which is why I'm looking at the X38, cus I dont need the OC potential of the P45.



So, your saying you want a chipset that doesn't run hot, but your picking a X38 which is 90nm vs a P45 which is 65nm, OCing aside, the X38 will run hotter at stock, and requires more voltage. See? I may be lazy where I've answered the same question a 1000 before but sometimes I'll still go into more details and pick things apart


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## Tatty_One (Mar 22, 2009)

I had OCZ Platinum on my x38 DQ6.... no issues so i would think the DS4 or DS5 wouldnt have a problem, the DS5 is meerly a higher specced model, extra USB's and SATA, I think the cooling is pretty much the same, the DS5 may have the odd extra overclocking options IDK.


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## Black Hades (Mar 22, 2009)

Tatty_One said:


> I had OCZ Platinum on my x38 DQ6.... no issues so i would think the DS4 or DS5 wouldnt have a problem, the DS5 is meerly a higher specced model, extra USB's and SATA, I think *the cooling is pretty much the same*, the DS5 may have the odd extra overclocking options IDK.



DS4 northbridge runs ~5*Celsius hotter than the DS5 one from my experience. DQ6 is a gimmik... the box had accesories one would rarely use.


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> So your argument you made earlier you just debunked yourself
> 
> So, your saying you want a chipset that doesn't run hot, but your picking a X38 which is 90nm vs a P45 which is 65nm, OCing aside, the X38 will run hotter at stock, and requires more voltage. See? I may be lazy where I've answered the same question a 1000 before but sometimes I'll still go into more details and pick things apart



I never said I did or didn't want a chipset that ran hot.

My comment was that you said the P45 should OC better, and I said I dont need its capabilities over an X38.


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

Black Hades said:


> DS4 northbridge runs ~5*Celsius hotter than the DS5 one from my experience. DQ6 is a gimmik... the box had accesories one would rarely use.



Isnt the DS4 heatsink bigger though 










EDIT:

You can see where they use the same PCB, from where the SATA ports are missing on the DS4. lol. I only need two ports plus one for the front I/O


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## DrPepper (Mar 22, 2009)

X48 is just an x38 guarenteed to do 1600fsb. I remember there was a big fuss over it.


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## Black Hades (Mar 22, 2009)

^^ I was only telling you my personal experience with it, albeit it was a short one. Though notice the fact that the ds5 northbridge sink has 2 pipes vs 1... might have something to do with that.

Probably they were experimenting with different sink designs and ds4 got the least efective design. Just a guess


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## Ketxxx (Mar 22, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> I never said I did or didn't want a chipset that ran hot.
> 
> My comment was that you said the P45 should OC better, and I said I dont need its capabilities over an X38.



Actually you pretty much did. I said theres nothing wrong with liking a chipset based on the latest fab process, and you said thats why you were looking at X38. Theres the link


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> Actually you pretty much did. I said theres nothing wrong with liking a chipset based on the latest fab process, and you said thats why you were looking at X38. Theres the link



I know, maybe I should have edited your quote then, cus I was saying about the



> means it should OC good as well


 bit



DrPepper said:


> X48 is just an x38 guarenteed to do 1600fsb. I remember there was a big fuss over it.



Thats what I thought


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## Ketxxx (Mar 22, 2009)

X38 will OC pretty ok, but it will require more voltage, run hotter, and is unlikely to do what most consider "the norm" on more modern chipsets without some cooling to keep its hot-headed nature under control.


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

Ketxxx said:


> X38 will OC pretty ok, but it will require more voltage, run hotter, and is unlikely to do what most consider "the norm" without some cooling to keep its hot-headed nature under control.



400 FSB shouldnt be asking much though should it?

Its written on the PCB and box that it supports it.


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## Black Hades (Mar 22, 2009)

There's a slight difference in price between ds4 and ds5 like 25$.

Either way you go what I recomend is that you get the EX38 motherboard vs X38 since it runs cooler and doesnt hinder performance, OC.


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## Ketxxx (Mar 22, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> 400 FSB shouldnt be asking much though should it?
> 
> Its written on the PCB and box that it supports it.



Same deal as with P45, some manufacturers plaster 1600FSB all over the box, but then in small print you will find something along the lines of "you are not guaranteed 1600FSB, 1600FSB is through overclocking". However, I would think X38 can do 400FSB, even my old 975X could muster 400. Just be sure X38 is kept as cool as possible, so lap the heatsink if it needs it, use a decent thermal paste and put a fan on the heatsink and you should be fine.


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## MoonPig (Mar 22, 2009)

Well, i did 1600FSB on my P35 for 6months. So, 1600FSB on an X38 should be a doddle.

All the heatsinks feel warm or cold to the touch, never hot.

There's plenty of connectors on the I/O. You'll never run out.


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

Shame its not black tho. Thats one thing I'll miss.


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## sneekypeet (Mar 22, 2009)

My Foxconn X38 took an E7200 to 4.0GHz Orthos and OCCT stable. Wouldnt go much higher though without a load of voltage. That still leaves well over 400 for my FSB cap on that chip.


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## groothof22 (Mar 22, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> P35
> 
> Good OC'er
> 16x/4x Xfire at PCI-E 1.1 + = Bad
> ...



Yeahh X38 rules before i had a p35 p5k pro but that was x16 x4. my board asus p5e ws pro is x16/x16 PCI-E 2.0 its sure a better chip i ever had i am happy whit it

thnx for showing people the difrins by the 2 Chips


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## allen337 (Mar 22, 2009)

ex38 ds4 @ 445fsb  4.0 ghz with q6600  http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9779/3d06ui1.png    .   4.23ghz 470fsb  ~~  http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6029/p1trpum5.png     . I would have loved to have a go stepping q6600 thats a b3.


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## alexp999 (Mar 22, 2009)

Thats a nice OC for a B3 stepping!

But 1.7v


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## allen337 (Mar 22, 2009)

death run for a competition on The raptorpit didnt care if I blew that b3 up or not.  I have a p35 ds3p gigabyte board that would only push the b3 to 3.8.  ALLEN



Memory speeds ~~  http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e239/allen41547/?action=view&current=speedfan.jpg


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## DrPepper (Mar 23, 2009)

Was that on air or liquid allen ?


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## allen337 (Mar 23, 2009)

vapochill XEII


http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9571/dsc00546dl2.jpg


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## DrPepper (Mar 23, 2009)

Ah I waited until the temps here were sub zero lol and used an air cooler. I got 3968 max on 1.6 wish I could have went higher.


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## alexp999 (Mar 27, 2009)

Hey guys, I now have this board set up and am looking for some help to OC it so any help would be much appreciated:

http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=89379


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