# some questions about TS .. (L340 , i5-9300HF , GTX 1650)



## aliunq (May 28, 2021)

Hi all ,
i have some questions that i cant find it on internet about TS and its modules ..
1- in TPL module what is difference between when i set both Long and Short same number (Like 30W both) OR i just uncheck Short power and just keep Long one at 30W ? what is difference and which is best at performance ?
2 - i read that when cores max temps are big differences its time to change thermal paste .. my first core is always hotter than others .. its like 7 to 10 degrees difference between first core and 4th .. so Do i need to change thermal paste ? (Its new laptop device that i bought it 1 month ago so didn't worked much)
3- the default TDP for i5-9300HF is 45W .. but i cap it to 25W and still i have high temps.. i mean why should be like this ?! is there any problems in heat sink with this values? or its just normal ? (Keep in mind the device is L340 from Lenovo that has small vent (10*4 CM) under it so there is no good air passing into device implemented.. u can google it and find out how bad design L340 has)
4- what is System Agent section under FIVR module and do i need to under-volt it also ? ( i find -125mV for both Core and Cache stable)


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## unclewebb (Jun 2, 2021)

The PL1 and PL2 power limits are used to control the turbo boost function. For default values, Intel suggests setting the long term PL1 limit equal to the TDP and setting the short term PL2 power limit 25% higher than PL1. The 9300HF has a 45W TDP rating so,

PL1 = 45W
PL2 = 45W + 25% = 56W. 

The default turbo time limit is usually 28 seconds. These are only suggested values. Individual laptop manufacturers can set these limits however they like. By using ThrottleStop, users can also set these power limits however they like.

At default values, the CPU will run as high as 56W for approximately 28 seconds and then it will switch to the 45W PL1 power limit after that. If you set both power limits to the same value then it will always be limited to the same power value. 

I always check the Short Power PL2 box. This ensures that this information is being sent to the CPU. When this box is not checked, if the value in the PL2 register within the CPU ever changes, ThrottleStop will not do anything to correct that problem. If you want these power limits enforced then I would also check the Clamp options. This clamps power consumption to the values that you have selected.  

I know some websites suggest not checking the Short Power PL2 box. Not checking this box is telling ThrottleStop not to monitor or update this setting. Often times you can get away with leaving this box unchecked. I prefer to check this box so the PL2 requested value is always maintained by ThrottleStop. I want to be 100% sure that the values requested in ThrottleStop are being sent to the CPU.  



aliunq said:


> which is best at performance ?


You are using ThrottleStop to lower the power limits from 45W to 30W. This is a good way to control the maximum temperature at the expense of full load performance. Do some testing to find out what works best for your situation. 



aliunq said:


> my first core is always hotter than others


Most people do not realize that most of Intel's core temperature sensors are only accurate to +/- 5°C. Some difference in temperatures between cores is normal. It is often times just sensor error. If you have time to kill and a tube of thermal paste, you can try replacing the paste. For small differences like you are seeing, it might not make any difference. If 4 cores are side by side, the ones on the end might run at a slightly different temperature compared to the ones in the middle. Not a lot of tasks load all of the cores 100% equally.



aliunq said:


> i5-9300HF is 45W .. but i cap it to 25W and still i have high temps.


What is your definition of high temps? Intel CPUs are rated to run reliably up to 100°C. That is why Intel sets the default thermal throttling temperature to 100°C. Constant temperatures over 90°C are normal for most gaming oriented laptops. You paid for a laptop with a 45W CPU so do not be afraid to use it at its rated power level. If it is constantly running at 100°C at its rated power then send it back and tell Lenovo to fix it. 

If Google shows that the L340 is poorly designed then why did you buy it? Best to do some Google research before you buy a laptop, not after. There is only so much you can do with a poorly designed product. 



aliunq said:


> System Agent


Most users do not bother undervolting the System Agent. Its power consumption is minimal compared to the cores so undervolting the System Agent may cause instability without improving power consumption any meaningful amount. With this setting and with all settings in ThrottleStop, do some testing. Reading forums and watching videos is a good way to learn the basics. After that, hands on testing is the best way to learn what works best on your laptop.


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## aliunq (Jun 2, 2021)

thanks for spending time to answer me @unclewebb very useful information , i appreciate that..
my default PL1 and PL2 was 45W and 78W .. so according to what u said why manufacture should set PL2 to 78 ?! such a cheap movement..
i did search on internet about this model but no one pointed this overheating problem .. (maybe they just was normal user )yet i didn't had this information before getting this device so i couldn't decide about that .. and unfortunately i figured out this issue after buying that and worst than that is in my country Lenovo or other brands don't give any supports and warranty .. so im alone with this device and ofc ur amazing program..
i get max 93 degrees with PL1 25W and PL2 30W .. in my opinion this was Hot .. but when i set PL1 to 30 and PL2 to 35 (or both 30) the PROCHOT text is showing RED in TS.. that means i should decrease it or i can go ahead with that situation ? (i set PROCHOT to 100 manually.. default was 94)
do i need to change Turbo ratios (FIVR) also ? i mean it impact in temps or no?


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## unclewebb (Jun 2, 2021)

aliunq said:


> 93 degrees with PL1 25W


I agree that 93°C when the power consumption is only 25W is terrible. It is either very poor design by Lenovo or they did a terrible job installing the heatsink. If it was my laptop, I would probably take it apart and I would reapply the thermal paste to see if I could improve things.

Here is a look at the heatsink in my daughter's Lenovo C930. 






The amount of metal in that heatsink is truly pathetic. The slightest load and the CPU temps are heading to the moon. It is not much thicker than a folded piece of tin foil with a thin copper colored layer of paint. They added a few random holes to make it look like a brake disc from a high performance car. Not surprising that their laptops run so hot.



aliunq said:


> PL1 and PL2 was 45W and 78W


I think some manufacturers use big power limit numbers so consumers think they are getting a powerful laptop. Kind of meaningless when the cooling system in struggling to keep the CPU cool when it is running at 25W.



aliunq said:


> i set PROCHOT to 100 manually


With Lenovo laptops you also need to check the Lock PROCHOT Offset option. This prevents any Lenovo software from changing this value. Some Lenovo laptops have a feature where the thermal throttling temperature can randomly drop down to 65°C depending on what Lenovo power plan you are using. Best to lock this setting to avoid this nonsense. The ever changing thermal throttling temperature can light up PROCHOT in red on the main screen of ThrottleStop long before the CPU reaches 100°C. The Lock PROCHOT Offset option should prevent this from happening. 

If the FIVR turbo ratios are not locked, some people like to decrease these to lower the CPU speed and control heat output. If these are locked by the BIOS, you can lower the Speed Shift Max value to slow your CPU down. Use whatever settings work best for you.


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## aliunq (Jun 20, 2021)

i got some questions sir @unclewebb .. sorry my apologies interrupting u
-why sometime an UV config is stable but some days its not ? i mean im on -150 mV its stable but i tried this value weeks ago and it crashed..so why sometime its stable but sometime is not ? (with same apps, same games, same OS)
-when i UV by -150 mV i can hit 4.0 GHz but with original Voltages i couldn't go further than 3.8 _ 3.9 .. i mean do undervolt cause to hit better clock or no ? so if that is how can i hit 4.1 now ? (is there any synergy/relation between UV and Clock speed? ) or its just because lower temps i got after that ?


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## unclewebb (Jun 20, 2021)

aliunq said:


> im on -150 mV its stable


For most CPUs, I do not think that -150 mV for the cache is 100% stable. 

If you undervolt too much, your computer might crash today or it might crash tomorrow or it might be a week or a month before it crashes. It is not a good idea to run your computer on the edge of stability. You have already proven that -150 mV is not always stable so give your CPU a little extra voltage. Try using an offset of -140 mV.  

When the voltage is too low, even if a computer does not crash right away, it can start writing the wrong information to some of your files on your hard drive or SSD. Windows can become corrupted so in a couple of months, you will start having some weird problems. You might have to re-install Windows if you set your voltage too low. 

Lowering the voltage will lower temperatures and it will also lower power consumption. If your laptop has thermal throttling or power limit throttling problems, less power consumption will allow the CPU to run faster. The maximum speed for a 9300HF when 3 or 4 cores are active is 4.0 GHz. You can only go faster than that when the computer is lightly loaded. For most games, your computer will probably run at 4.0 GHz. Lowering the voltage will not make it go any faster than this so set the voltage so your computer is 100% stable.


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