# Important W10 activation key questions left unanswered by Microsoft



## qubit (Jul 31, 2015)

I can't seem to find a straight answer to these questions anywhere and it's putting me off going for the upgrade.

If I upgrade, will my old W7 & W8 keys no longer activate my older OSes? It doesn't mention this either way in the official FAQ. If it invalidates the old key, then it's hardly a free upgrade and is actually a part exchange so they should make this clear as it's a critical point and forms a contract between the user and Microsoft. There's a hint of this in the FAQ answer that you have one month to revert to the old OS.

Similarly, does Microsoft actually explicitely give you a W10 key or do I have to use the Keyfinder utility?

The one thing that does seem clear however, is that regardless of whether your old OS is OEM or retail, the upgrade to W10 is OEM and hence tied to the motherboard, which is quite restrictive if the original was retail. This is also a sneeky way to stop it from being a perpetual licence too, as it dies when the hardware dies or is replaced.

Imagine your mobo dying a week after installing it. You replace it with a new mobo and internet activation of course fails. Do you even get the option of a phone activation? If you do, are Microsoft likely to block it anyway?

Note that I am actually running the RTM version of W10 in VMWare Player, since it came down free on Windows Update at the end of the Insider program. Interestingly, it has an option to let me continue being an Insider or not. If I remain an Insider then I guess it still does the keylogging, which would make it best to opt out of it. Again, I haven't seen anything at all about this. Anyone know?

This is what I see now if I go into settings and Windows Update, Advanced options. Note the Stop Insider builds button.


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 31, 2015)

As I understand it, you are correct in this "free upgrade' essentially bein an OEM tied to the life of your hardware.  That's why I stated in your Refusenik thread when I finally deem W10 essential, I will buy a retail copy 

Also, since you only have 30 days to change your mind on the upgrade, and W10 then deletes youe windows.old folder, you lose your old OS forever and are essentially trapped.  It's a clever way to make sure you upgrade to W10 and stay there. While I think it's an abhorrent tactic, I have to admire it too.


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## cadaveca (Jul 31, 2015)

Actually, those questions WERE answered by Microsoft, but perhaps you missed it because you've been busy posting all these Wn10 threads.


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 31, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Actually, those questions WERE answered by Microsoft, but perhaps you missed it because you've been busy posting all these Wn10 threads.



Maybe you could recap here, because as a number of writers have pointed out MS has been less than clear on almost every W10 rule they have published, to the point of obfuscating and contradicting themselves!

It would be much appreciated!


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## m&m's (Jul 31, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Actually, those questions WERE answered by Microsoft, but perhaps you missed it because you've been busy posting all these Wn10 threads.



Well, I also don't know the answer of the following question, so please, give me the answer since I actually didn't upgrade yet because I need to know this before I do anything.

Thanks



qubit said:


> If I upgrade, will my old W7 & W8 keys no longer activate my older OSes?


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## cadaveca (Jul 31, 2015)

Sheesh. FFS A quick google would have your answer, but I had this page bookmarked:

TL;DR: what happens to your key depends on what type and version of windows you installed WIn10 from.



> It depends on the license you upgrade from:
> 
> *When I upgrade a preinstalled (OEM) or retail version of Windows 7 or Windows 8/8.1 license to Windows 10, does that license remain OEM or become a retail license?*
> 
> ...




http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...c2?msgId=17e41c57-5cfb-41a0-beee-e9959edfd138

The only time you will get an ACTUAL win10 key is if you buy a full retail/OEM Win10 copy (available RIGHT NOW from Microsoft store).


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 31, 2015)

Thank you. That is dated July 28th.  Prior to then, they kept this (deliberately I believe) not so clear, so there was no reason for any of us to do a new google search, since the unclear info had already been put out there by MS.  

So this confirns what I understood, you lose your old OS after 30 days.


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## cadaveca (Jul 31, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Thank you. That is dated July 28th.  Prior to then, they kept this (deliberately I believe) not so clear, so there was no reason for any of us to do a new google search, since the unclear info had already been put out there by MS.
> 
> So this confirns what I understood, you lose your old OS after 30 days.


Not if you have a full retail copy OS. In other words, you have the same "install rights" as the copy you upgraded from. And I do understand that the post is new-ish, but at the same time, it does make some sense to me to check with Microsoft first before going elsewhere, since only Microsoft can directly answer these things. Hence my comment about posting Win10 threads... this thread was posted today claiming these questions were not answered... but they were, just recently, which makes them easy to find.

This other new post other might find useful as well:


http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...-fb85-43e3-8be4-07e7c4ab9ea2?tm=1438131062665


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## R-T-B (Jul 31, 2015)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...ect-from-microsoft.214709/page-5#post-3322876

I've posted about the process several times here. (and elsewhere)


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## qubit (Jul 31, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Actually, those questions WERE answered by Microsoft, but perhaps you missed it because you've been busy posting all these Wn10 threads.





cadaveca said:


> Sheesh. FFS A quick google would have your answer, but I had this page bookmarked:
> 
> TL;DR: what happens to your key depends on what type and version of windows you installed WIn10 from.
> 
> ...



Actually, it answers some of it, but not the critical question of whether the old licence will still activate the old OS. Judging by the "licence consumed" wording it probably won't, but it's not clear. Right, so this critical info was sort of _finally_ posted on the 29th in an MS forum thread rather than the official FAQ where it should have been. Can you really not see the problem here? Good thing I posted a thread about it to help raise awareness of it, eh? 

So I was right, if the old key is consumed, then it's not so free then, is it? *It's actually a part exchange.* Yeah, trust Microsoft to do a bait and switch tactic like that. I don't see how that's legal without putting this critical point up front. There's nothing wrong with a part exchange, just make it clear up front.

Oh and obviously I did actually google it before posting this thread, but this didn't come up in the search results. Most people realize that from my OP, but not our esteemed @cadaveca, lol.

Well done for finding it, but once again zero points for having such a dumb attitude and attempting another silly putdown with a strawman argument and hence looking like a bit of a plonker, tsk. c'mom man, I'm not your enemy. Oh and it still wasn't quite answered by Microsoft, so your find isn't quite the slam dunk is it?


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## ShiBDiB (Jul 31, 2015)

My main question is do my insider preview installs automatically get updated to gold or do i have to do something


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## qubit (Jul 31, 2015)

ShiBDiB said:


> My main question is do my insider preview installs automatically get updated to gold or do i have to do something


Insiders did get the RTM version. I'm an Insider and I got it. Read the last few sentence of my OP where I explain it and show the screenshot.

I'm not sure if Microsoft will allow an Insider build to activate now. Try it in VMWare Player perhaps?


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## Mussels (Jul 31, 2015)

subbing to this thread, getting asked a lot of these questions myself and don't have all the answers.


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## ShiBDiB (Jul 31, 2015)

qubit said:


> Insiders did get the RTM version. I'm an Insider and I got it. Read the last few sentence of my OP where I explain it and show the screenshot.
> 
> I'm not sure if Microsoft will allow an Insider build to activate now. Try it in VMWare Player perhaps?



I've had these installs going for about 5 months now. They still seem to run fine but the thing telling me they're insider previews is still in the bottom right


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## qubit (Jul 31, 2015)

ShiBDiB said:


> I've had these installs going for about 5 months now. They still seem to run fine but the thing telling me they're insider previews is still in the bottom right


I'm sorry, I don't know then. <puzzled> Towards the end of the Insider period, MS said we'd get the full version and mine is at the retail 10240 and doesn't show the version in the bottom right. Typing ver at the command prompt shows the version number.

Have you set your updates to Fast mode? If not, try it and initiate an update scan and see what you get. Also, did you use a Microsoft account or was it a local account? That will make the difference too. Actually, I don't think you could install it with a local account, but I'm not sure as I never tried.


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## zsolt_93 (Jul 31, 2015)

I always had it with a local account. And now i am not an insider on my account and will get the official rollout much later. I tried to force updating on 2PCs and none of them worked, Windows update erred out on me, and the ISO takes ages to download and still crashes. Good that i can break these installs as a reinstall was coming anyways on these computers with the OS being 2yrs old and starting to bloat, especially on the laptop with HDD.

I am trying Windows Update again as I speak.. Cleaned all folder and remains of previous attempts. Aaaand its stuck again on preparing to install, as it always was. Once i got the romanian version that went further but couldnt keep my applications just my files because of the different locale.. thats what it said at least.

I am writing this OS off.... Moving to Linux or even MAC seems a much better idea now, heck, i could update a hackintosh easier than this piece of crap.


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## AsRock (Jul 31, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Thank you. That is dated July 28th.  Prior to then, they kept this (deliberately I believe) not so clear, so there was no reason for any of us to do a new google search, since the unclear info had already been put out there by MS.
> 
> So this confirns what I understood, you lose your old OS after 30 days.



Sounds to me if you have OEM lic and you have to phone MS their 1st question will be is it retail or oem and you say oem they say gtfoh.


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## Jetster (Jul 31, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Thank you. That is dated July 28th.  Prior to then, they kept this (deliberately I believe) not so clear, so there was no reason for any of us to do a new google search, since the unclear info had already been put out there by MS.
> 
> So this confirns what I understood, you lose your old OS after 30 days.




Yea that was my only question. What if you want to go back to 7. Will the license work still


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## cadaveca (Jul 31, 2015)

qubit said:


> So I was right, if the old key is consumed, then it's not so free then, is it? *It's actually a part exchange.* Yeah, trust Microsoft to do a bait and switch tactic like that. I don't see how that's legal without putting this critical point up front. There's nothing wrong with a part exchange, just make it clear up front.




Upgrade. Upgrade. It's not a full OS, it's a free upgrade to an existing OS.



ShiBDiB said:


> My main question is do my insider preview installs automatically get updated to gold or do i have to do something



If it is already activated, you can download the "240" build and update from there. That is the key part...it has to be activated and listed in your Microsoft Account in order to be upgraded from preview to release. No new activations have been possible for a few now.


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## fullinfusion (Jul 31, 2015)

Jetster said:


> Yea that was my only question. What if you want to go back to 7. Will the license work still


Yup it will!


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## Caring1 (Jul 31, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Thank you. That is dated July 28th.
> So this confirns what I understood, you lose your old OS after 30 days.


Actually you lose the Windows.old folder.
You can copy or clone that to use later if you wish to uninstall W10.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 31, 2015)

i think it will be identical to all prior times.

I bought win 7 ultimate got a bought upgrade to 8 which deemed the win 7 key dead

8 to 8.1 free upgrade, again pro rendered the 8 key dead, and when i bought media center for some unknown reason, the new key i got subsumed the old one again.


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 31, 2015)

The "license is consumed into it" for both retail and oem versions of prior operating systwns certainly sounds like after 30 days "cooling off" period that MS gives you, you can never go back to that previous OS.

BTW, all these answers.microsoft "facts" are forum answers (and thus interpretations), not official MS answers, so it makes my initial point in here about MS being less than clear.


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## Jetster (Jul 31, 2015)

Yep. Here it is from MS

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/Windows-10-faq


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 31, 2015)

Jetster said:


> Yep. Here it is from MS
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/Windows-10-faq



There it is. After 30 days no more W7 or 8.1.  You have only 30 days to go back @qubit.


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## qubit (Jul 31, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> There it is. After 30 days no more W7 or 8.1.  You have only 30 days to go back @qubit.


I saw that. It doesn't explicitly tell you whether your old key becomes invalid or not, only sort of implies it and that point is extremely important.


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## newtekie1 (Jul 31, 2015)

qubit said:


> Similarly, does Microsoft actually explicitely give you a W10 key or do I have to use the Keyfinder utility?



You don't get a key, and if you use a keyfinder utility it just returns a generic public key that won't activate.  They have updated their activation system with Win10, the OS will attempt to activate without a key and match your hardware ID to one stored in the activation servers.  If the hardware ID matches your copy will activate with no key required.  According to the FAQ, if you make "significant changes" to your hardware you may have to contact Microsoft tech support.



qubit said:


> The one thing that does seem clear however, is that regardless of whether your old OS is OEM or retail, the upgrade to W10 is OEM and hence tied to the motherboard, which is quite restrictive if the original was retail. This is also a sneeky way to stop it from being a perpetual licence too, as it dies when the hardware dies or is replaced.



According to what I've read, if you have a retail version your upgrade is also retail and can be move between computers.  That is where contacting tech support comes in.



qubit said:


> I saw that. It doesn't explicitly tell you whether your old key becomes invalid or not, only sort of implies it and that point is extremely important.



Part of their upgrade licencing for all their upgrade versions has said the key becomes invalid.  I would assume it is buried in the upgrade license for Win10 as well.


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## GreiverBlade (Jul 31, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> As I understand it, you are correct in this "free upgrade' essentially bein an OEM tied to the life of your hardware.  That's why I stated in your Refusenik thread when I finally deem W10 essential, I will buy a retail copy
> 
> Also, since you only have 30 days to change your mind on the upgrade, and W10 then deletes youe windows.old folder, you lose your old OS forever and are essentially trapped.  It's a clever way to make sure you upgrade to W10 and stay there. While I think it's an abhorrent tactic, I have to admire it too.


well win 8.1 oem (for my laptop as a example) is also  Tied to the hardware if i am not mistaken... no key no nothing : so why ask the question for 10 since it will likely be the same
also for "you can never going back to you old os" : kinda wrong eh? ... you can always do a fresh instal of W7 or 8.1 (no 8 still doesn't exist) even if the key is invalidated i don't see where is the problem, mainly because i get my 7 Pro key for less than 30$, as long as they can be activated and on the phone activation you get a "your entry has been acepted" , tho i can see for those who would need to pay full price for a retail W7 ... (oohhh that remember me that i have a W7 Starter license on a dead netbook ... the upgrade starter to 10 remove the limitation of starter iirc )

ok then i will not upgrade the main rig but the laptop yes ... (less likely to change hardware on a laptop xD) and get a retail w10 for the main


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## Frick (Jul 31, 2015)

newtekie1 said:


> You don't get a key, and if you use a keyfinder utility it just returns a generic public key that won't activate.  They have updated their activation system with Win10, the OS will attempt to activate without a key and match your hardware ID to one stored in the activation servers.  If the hardware ID matches your copy will activate with no key required.  According to the FAQ, if you make "significant changes" to your hardware you may have to contact Microsoft tech support.



I wonder how much of a hassle it is for a retail license. I tend to swap hardware quite frequently, would be super annoying if I actually had to talk to someone every time I changed motherboards.


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## Mussels (Jul 31, 2015)

all that effort to reduce piracy with free upgrades, and they do it so restricted that people will end up pirating it anyway - and disabling windows updates to keep the cracks working - making all their efforts kinda redundantm, with pirated infected copies of windows still screwing things up for them.


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## qubit (Jul 31, 2015)

Mussels said:


> all that effort to reduce piracy with free upgrades, and they do it so restricted that people will end up pirating it anyway - and disabling windows updates to keep the cracks working - making all their efforts kinda redundantm, with pirated infected copies of windows still screwing things up for them.


Control freaks will never understand. 

+1 @Frick


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## Mussels (Jul 31, 2015)

knowing that my keys get eaten concerns me, so i'll stick with my insider edition copies and dual booting my other OSes.


Gaming PCs aside, the forced updates have ruled out windows 10 on my laptops at least.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Jul 31, 2015)

Speaking of laptops, does this mean that if I ever have to do a total factory system restore that it won't work? Or win7 on it now won't activate once the upgrade is done?


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## jsfitz54 (Jul 31, 2015)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Speaking of laptops, does this mean that if I ever have to do a total factory system restore that it won't work? Or win7 on it now won't activate once the upgrade is done?



I have the same question, due to the problem I had yesterday @

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/windows-10-upgrade-issues-on-w8-1.214750/#post-3323055

My W8 license/ISO I re downloaded and burned to DVD disk, I tried to download the free upgraded W8.1 ISO using that license Key but it did not work.  It was a different Key from the W8 Key.  I have both Keys.  It seems that I should have been able to directly download the W8.1 ISO.

So if you have to do a reinstall of W10 what Key do you insert after you have done a full wipe?


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 31, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Actually, those questions WERE answered by Microsoft, but perhaps you missed it because you've been busy posting all these Wn10 threads.



baaa dummmm tss


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## jsfitz54 (Jul 31, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> baaa dummmm tss



Not helpful, and it sounds like you don't have any real experience in solving these current problems.

My upgrade did not go smoothly and Microsoft is guarded about what info they release.




rtwjunkie said:


> Also, since you only have 30 days to change your mind on the upgrade, and W10 then deletes youe windows.old folder, you lose your old OS forever and are essentially trapped. It's a clever way to make sure you upgrade to W10 and stay there. While I think it's an abhorrent tactic, I have to admire it too.



Can we save our Windows.old folder for later use? mine is 12.5GB


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## qubit (Jul 31, 2015)

jsfitz54 said:


> Not helpful, and it sounds like you don't have any real experience in solving these current problems.
> 
> My upgrade did not go smoothly and Microsoft is guarded about what info they release.
> 
> ...


Thanks, +1.

Remember the old tactic: when you don't have a rational argument and lack knowledge: throw insults. Fails every time, lol.


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## erocker (Jul 31, 2015)

Frick said:


> I wonder how much of a hassle it is for a retail license. I tend to swap hardware quite frequently, would be super annoying if I actually had to talk to someone every time I changed motherboards.


From what I understand full retail copies keep their key and will work if you change out your motherboard. OEM copies will not.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Jul 31, 2015)

jsfitz54 said:


> I have the same question, due to the problem I had yesterday @
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/windows-10-upgrade-issues-on-w8-1.214750/#post-3323055
> 
> ...


My install went fine and is running okay but what happens if the rig refuses to boot and I want to use the factory restore to set the machine back to the way it came new? Am I screwed if I leave win 10 on here?


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## jsfitz54 (Jul 31, 2015)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> My install went fine and is running okay but what happens if the rig refuses to boot and I want to use the factory restore to set the machine back to the way it came new? Am I screwed if I leave win 10 on here?



Does W10 break the factory restore option?  Sounds like a question for the manufacturer.

You should make a DVD restore set.
In the case of "ransom ware" the factory restore partition can become corrupted as well. 
I have had to order factory disks from HP to fix a corrupted rescue partition.

*ANYONE have an answer to saving the Windows.old folder for later use?*


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 31, 2015)

jsfitz54 said:


> Does W10 break the factory restore option?  Sounds like a question for the manufacturer.
> 
> You should make a DVD restore set.
> In the case of "ransom ware" the factory restore partition can become corrupted as well.
> ...


 
Based on what limited and guarded information Microsoft has released, I'm going to say no.  Sure, you could physically save a copy and try it out after 30 days, but it sounds like i will be no good because your old key is invalid after 30 days.  I think it's MS way of keeping everyone forward who went forward.  The fewer old OS around, the better for them.

Really though, the only way to know for sure is to wait until the 31st day and someone tries it.


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## Folterknecht (Jul 31, 2015)

Is it possible to pull an image of the current OS (Win7 Pro in my case with orginal 64bit disc), after that upgrade to Win10 and put back the old image after more than 30 days? Will the key still be valid?

This whole Win10 upgrade thing is a fucking mess. Combine that with all the data collecting BS and I m really starting to think about going back to the old days of using an OS.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 31, 2015)

Did a clean install today and didn't need a key to activate. However for giggles I tried to use my W8.1 key and it didn't work. So I installed Windows 10 on a freshly formatted (all partitions deleted) and when I logged in with my outlook account the OS activated. Did this on two different rigs. Worked flawless.

Upgrades also go smoothly IF you do not have a third party anti-virus/firewall. If you do I suggest you uninstall both before upgrading. It should be normal procedure for most of the old crew on here but some of the newer guys might not know. (I personally screwed up and forgot on my gaming rig and it was a Cosby date.)

Also driver updates are as mandatory as they were on XP, Vista, Win7,8 and 8.1. I have had ZERO issue changing to the drivers I want. People did a lot of crying for no reason as I suspected.


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## cadaveca (Jul 31, 2015)

Folterknecht said:


> Is it possible to pull an image of the current OS (Win7 Pro in my case with orginal 64bit disc), after that upgrade to Win10 and put back the old image after more than 30 days? Will the key still be valid?



Yes, if you were previously activated when you made the image. This is the way to have the ability to revert back, and this is how M$ has really treated these upgrades since they offered upgrades. It's not any different this time to how it has been in the past.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 31, 2015)

jsfitz54 said:


> *Not helpful, and it sounds like you don't have any real experience in solving these current problems.*
> 
> My upgrade did not go smoothly and Microsoft is guarded about what info they release.
> 
> ...



Does anyone with an OS that just released 2 days ago?? And I was responding to cadaveca because I thought his reply was pretty funny, and quite accurate.



TheMailMan78 said:


> Did a clean install today and didn't need a key to activate. However for giggles I tried to use my W8.1 key and it didn't work. So I installed Windows 10 on a freshly formatted (all partitions deleted) and when I logged in with my outlook account the OS activated. Did this on two different rigs. Worked flawless.
> 
> Upgrades also go smoothly IF you do not have a third party anti-virus/firewall. If you do I suggest you uninstall both before upgrading. It should be normal procedure for most of the old crew on here but some of the newer guys might not know. (I personally screwed up and forgot on my gaming rig and it was a Cosby date.)
> 
> Also driver updates are as mandatory as they were on XP, Vista, Win7,8 and 8.1. I have had ZERO issue changing to the drivers I want. People did a lot of crying for no reason as I suspected.



So did you just do the normal upgrade, then did the clean install from your upgrade Windows 10?


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 31, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Does anyone with an OS that just released 2 days ago?? And I was responding to cadaveca because I thought his reply was pretty funny, and quite accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> So did you just do the normal upgrade, then did the clean install from your upgrade Windows 10?


On my gaming rig I did a normal upgrade with a third party antivirus/firewall and it screwed up a lot of stuff (expected when you don't uninstall a security suit before an OS change). So I formatted everything and did a clean install of Windows 10 and it activated like a champ with no key. They tie the activation to your MS account.

Also Phenom ignore the trolls. They are all butt hurt they have to jump through more loops to get free crap.


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## cadaveca (Jul 31, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> On my gaming rig I did a normal upgrade with a third party antivirus/firewall and it screwed up a lot of stuff (expected when you don't uninstall a security suit before an OS change). So I formatted everything and did a clean install of Windows 10 and it activated like a champ with no key. They tie the activation to your MS account.




Not only that, you can check your M$ account and see what devices are listed there, so you know if you can do a clean install or not. Do the upgrade, get it activated, verify that it is listed in your account, then feel free to do a fresh install without activation issues ever.


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 31, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Does anyone with an OS that just released 2 days ago?? And I was responding to cadaveca because I thought his reply was pretty funny, and quite accurate


 
Actually, that's the problem. His reply was not accurate (pointed to a forum, not the official word, and also not completely accurate), and they were haughty and condescending, so not funny. No one, not even the most historically over-the-top Microsoft supporter (You, ) can deny that MS have been the least clear they have EVER been about all the rules, and very likely it was purposeful.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 31, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Not only that, you can check your M$ account and see what devices are listed there, so you know if you can do a clean install or not. Do the upgrade, get it activated, verify that it is listed in your account, then feel free to do a fresh install without activation issues ever.


Yup! I saw it in there this morning. I really like this new activation route they have gone so far. Super easy to maintain.


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## cadaveca (Jul 31, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Actually, that's the problem. His reply was not accurate (pointed to a forum, not the official word, and also not completely accurate), and they were haughty and condescending, so not funny. No one, not even the most historically over-the-top Microsoft supporter (You, ) can deny that MS have been the least clear they have EVER been about all the rules, and very likely it was purposeful.


I don't agree. To me, what you are suggesting is laughable. They aren't a nefarious company trying to take over your life...they simply want access to your life so they can sell you stuff you already want. 

I'll agree, my sense of humour doesn't always come over well, but the difference for MxPhenom is that he and I have talked many many times in teamspeak, and sarcasm and such is related easier in voice than text. He knows I'm just being a bit of an ass, but I do feel Qubit is as well. NO big deal. Qubit asked me to use smilies... meh... that's not as fun. Peverse, sure, but I never claimed to be normal. ROFL. I didn't post that yesterday in response to YOU, sir, and if you felt that way , Ido apologize. That comment I posted yesterday was directed at qubit.


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 31, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> I don't agree. To me, what you are suggesting is laughable. They aren't a nefarious company trying to take over your life...they simply want access to your life so they can sell you stuff you already want.


 
That is certainly an interesting take on things! It made me laugh


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## KainXS (Jul 31, 2015)

Folterknecht said:


> Is it possible to pull an image of the current OS (Win7 Pro in my case with orginal 64bit disc), after that upgrade to Win10 and put back the old image after more than 30 days? Will the key still be valid?
> 
> This whole Win10 upgrade thing is a fucking mess. Combine that with all the data collecting BS and I m really starting to think about going back to the old days of using an OS.



The old key is still valid after upgrading to 10 right now at least, I actually upgraded to 10(was already activated) then wanted to clean install so I downloaded the iso and then realized upon reinstall I installed 32bit instead of 64 bit so I reinstalled windows 7 and my windows 7 key still activated after the 10 upgrade and then downloaded the 10 iso again(this time 64bit) and it activated automatically.

so as it stands if you upgrade to 10 right now your 7 or 8 key is still valid but in 30 days, I'm gonna guess it will still be valid.

Is it a mess for some people, I would agree completely, it was for me. Original upgrade failed and had to reinstall 7 to see that you don't get the update to get the GWX app after upgrading(whether or not it fails or succeeds) and need to manually install windows 10 with the tool but I have 4 other devices I upgrade to and all 4 worked fine with the upgrade, even my bay trail device(Pipo X7) so I'm guessing the download was corrupted maybe or something since the first day the servers were getting hammered hard.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 31, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> On my gaming rig I did a normal upgrade with a third party antivirus/firewall and it screwed up a lot of stuff (expected when you don't uninstall a security suit before an OS change). So I formatted everything and did a clean install of Windows 10 and it activated like a champ with no key. They tie the activation to your MS account.
> 
> Also Phenom ignore the trolls. They are all butt hurt they have to jump through more loops to get free crap.



Good to know. Im still waiting for my upgrade.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Jul 31, 2015)

jsfitz54 said:


> Does W10 break the factory restore option?  Sounds like a question for the manufacturer.
> 
> You should make a DVD restore set.
> In the case of "ransom ware" the factory restore partition can become corrupted as well.
> ...


My restore partition is fine. I just checked it a little while ago and it still loads up and will still set the lappy to factory specs. I was just wondering if I had to use it in the future would win 7 activate or not. Not sure if I would be able to use a fresh install of win 10 on here and don't want to leave myself with no options if the os gets craped out and I have to do a reinstall. By crapped out I am not talking a hardware failure just a screwed os.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jul 31, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Good to know. Im still waiting for my upgrade.


You can start it right now. As a matter of fact I bet your updater has already tried. Check windows updater and see if you have any "Upgrade to Windows 10 failed" in "installed updates".

If so post back.


----------



## jsfitz54 (Jul 31, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Good to know. Im still waiting for my upgrade.



Yes, it's time for you to get your feet wet.

You could also download direct, Here:  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 31, 2015)

jsfitz54 said:


> Yes, it's time for you to get your feet wet.
> 
> You could also download direct, Here:  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10


Given the number of people IRL I have dealt with in the past couple of days, I'd highly recommend to NOT do anything unless GWX tells you it's ready to do so. 99% of people that did not already get the upgrade notice registered for the upgrade using gmail or other non-Microsoft email addresses. Switch to Hotmail or outlook address, it'll upgrade quickly. So if you have used M$ email, but did nto get upgrade notice... YOU ARE LIKELY TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PROBLEM. 1 out of 20 I have dealt with (so three people now lol) has driver installation issues. Of course, this is not people online, but people local to me.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 31, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Given the number of people IRL I have dealt with in the past couple of days, I'd highly recommend to NOT do anything unless GWX tells you it's ready to do so. 99% of people that did not already get the upgrade notice registered for the upgrade using gmail or other non-Microsoft email addresses. Switch to Hotmail or outlook address, it'll upgrade quickly. So if you have used M$ email, but did nto get upgrade notice... YOU ARE LIKELY TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PROBLEM. 1 out of 20 I have dealt with (so three people now lol) has driver installation issues. Of course, this is not people online, but people local to me.



I am using Microsoft email address, I am also one of the Insider people. I have confirmation emails in my microsoft account about reserving for the upgrade. 



TheMailMan78 said:


> You can start it right now. As a matter of fact I bet your updater has already tried. Check windows updater and see if you have any "Upgrade to Windows 10 failed" in "installed updates".
> 
> If so post back.



Nope, nothing in the update history.


----------



## cadaveca (Jul 31, 2015)

Your GWX will notify you when it is time to upgrade. If you got the pop-up and then closed it, no big deal, but if not... might want to wait.


----------



## Crap Daddy (Jul 31, 2015)

GWX dissapeared on our Asus T100TA (2 in 1 tablet PC) so we did the upgrade through the MS media creation tool. Everything went smooth as butter, activated then got win 10 atk package from asus and touchpad drivers. Continuum not working yet but no big deal. Same procedure with media creation on a machine with an E8400, P35 mobo and a HD 4850 smooth as butter, activated. Very much like the OS.


----------



## jsfitz54 (Jul 31, 2015)

Crap Daddy said:


> GWX dissapeared on our Asus T100TA (2 in 1 tablet PC) so we did the upgrade through the MS media creation tool. Everything went smooth as butter, activated then got win 10 atk package from asus and touchpad drivers. Continuum not working yet but no big deal. Same procedure with media creation on a machine with an E8400, P35 mobo and a HD 4850 smooth as butter, activated. Very much like the OS.



Took the Bull By The Horns.  Nice to see some courage shown.

Others are timid.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 1, 2015)

they're probably being vague so they can adjust it based on feedback.


----------



## INSTG8R (Aug 1, 2015)

So I figured I would let my old Lappy be my "Win10 Guinea Pig" I was kinda glad I did. The upgrade went smoothly but that is where it ended. The Laptop has become so slow and unresponsive. Accessing my HDDS takes MINUTES, I have 2 "Base System Devices" in my HW Manager that it can't find drivers for and neither can I. Could it be those devices slowing it down? I mean it ran Win 7 Pro 64 like a champ. It's a pretty old Acer Aspire 7520(Turion X2 1.9Ghz, NV 8400M)

So seeing as this one is about "do I get to keep my key?) How in the heck do I roll back to 7??? If it can upgrade without issue to 10 is there a way to go back to 7 just as easily? I would rather avoid a format if possible. Like I said it's old, I juggle alot of drivers for it and it's getting tougher to find working ones. Already in 10 I have lost my Browser "Forward/Back" swiping on my touchpad that alone is enough to make me wanna punch my cat...

So I don't "dislike" Win10 I like what I see but my Laptop disagrees with me.  Needless to say I will be holding off on upgrading my Desktop for a awhile I think. I''m not missing anything until the first crop of DX12 games comes out.

TL;DR: Can I/How do I roll back to Win7?


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 1, 2015)

INSTG8R said:


> Acer Aspire 7520(*Turion X2* 1.9Ghz, NV 8400M)



There's your problem.

The Turion X2 is even worse than the Core 2 Duo 1.8Ghz I installed on (worse IPC).  It's far too slow for 10's metro junk that is always running in the backdrop IMO.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to rollback or I'd help you out.


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 1, 2015)

INSTG8R said:


> So I figured I would let my old Lappy be my "Win10 Guinea Pig" I was kinda glad I did. The upgrade went smoothly but that is where it ended. The Laptop has become so slow and unresponsive. Accessing my HDDS takes MINUTES, I have 2 "Base System Devices" in my HW Manager that it can't find drivers for and neither can I. Could it be those devices slowing it down? I mean it ran Win 7 Pro 64 like a champ. It's a pretty old Acer Aspire 7520(Turion X2 1.9Ghz, NV 8400M)
> 
> So seeing as this one is about "do I get to keep my key?) How in the heck do I roll back to 7??? If it can upgrade without issue to 10 is there a way to go back to 7 just as easily? I would rather avoid a format if possible. Like I said it's old, I juggle alot of drivers for it and it's getting tougher to find working ones. Already in 10 I have lost my Browser "Forward/Back" swiping on my touchpad that alone is enough to make me wanna punch my cat...
> 
> ...


Simple. Go to the start menu, and click settings,

Then click recovery....

and a button should be there to revert.


----------



## INSTG8R (Aug 1, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Simple. Go to the start menu, and click settings,
> 
> Then click recovery....
> 
> and a button should be there to revert.



Thanks Dave!  I hope I can get my old 7 back



R-T-B said:


> There's your problem.
> 
> The Turion X2 is even worse than the Core 2 Duo 1.8Ghz I installed on (worse IPC).  It's far too slow for 10's metro junk that is always running in the backdrop IMO.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't know how to rollback or I'd help you out.



Yeah well it's just a websurfer and media streamer so it "did" that job just fine. I actually had a line on a faster Turion(Har Har  ) from another member here but the deal just never panned out.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 1, 2015)

Hey if it ain't broke don't fix it, amirite?  It'll do fine as a Windows 7 websurfer.


----------



## INSTG8R (Aug 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Hey if it ain't broke don't fix it, amirite?  It'll do fine as a Windows 7 websurfer.



Yep and thanks to Dave it was pretty darn painless to go back now that I knew where to look. Seeing as you mentioned my Turions poor performance, would you be surprised that it came with Vista installed`? But I am now definitely a little gun shy with my Desktop now. Now that I have seen it and spent an evening or 2 with it I like what I saw but the performance hit was just unbelievable, worse than Vista.


----------



## qubit (Aug 1, 2015)

Mussels said:


> they're probably being vague so they can adjust it based on feedback.


Yeah, remember when Vista came out, they tried licensing retail copies so that they could be transferred to another computer only one time? That caused a bit of an outrage and they backed down pretty quickly. They pull this crap every time.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 1, 2015)

INSTG8R said:


> Yep and thanks to Dave it was pretty darn painless to go back now that I knew where to look. Seeing as you mentioned my Turions poor performance, would you be surprised that it came with Vista installed`? But I am now definitely a little gun shy with my Desktop now. Now that I have seen it and spent an evening or 2 with it I like what I saw but the performance hit was just unbelievable, worse than Vista.



It needs a pretty modern processor to activate most of it's performance benefits (something with SSE4 or greater I'd imagine).

Not surprising that it tanked here.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 1, 2015)

windows update doing its hashing before updates is harsh on machines, i've got an i3 ultrabook that destroys most tasks i throw at it, but once windows update starts checking for updates (code for '100% CPU usage  one one core for a while) it lags terribly until its done.

a fresh win10 install could run like crap without a few hours to sort out its background tasks.


----------



## Caring1 (Aug 1, 2015)

jsfitz54 said:


> Can we save our Windows.old folder for later use? mine is 12.5GB


This has been answered before, the answer is yes.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 1, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> This has been answered before, the answer is yes.



I disagree because it's not fully laid out. The whole consuming license statement PLUS the declaration of only 30 days to retrograde means we won't know for sure until someone tries it after 30 days.


----------



## AsRock (Aug 1, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> I disagree because it's not fully laid out. The whole consuming license statement PLUS the declaration of only 30 days to retrograde means we won't know for sure until someone tries it after 30 days.



That's what i have been thinking.


----------



## Caring1 (Aug 1, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> I disagree because it's not fully laid out. The whole consuming license statement PLUS the declaration of only 30 days to retrograde means we won't know for sure until someone tries it after 30 days.


See the reply by Andre de Costa on this page.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...7/f6df369f-00e0-4530-9ee7-bd46f2de050c?auth=1


----------



## jsfitz54 (Aug 1, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> See the reply by Andre de Costa on this page.
> http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...7/f6df369f-00e0-4530-9ee7-bd46f2de050c?auth=1



Your link indicates what revision is allowed during the 30 day grace period and does not appear to speak to the issue of saving the .old folder offsite and using it beyond the 30 days.

If I missed it, show me where it is.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 1, 2015)

jsfitz54 said:


> Your link indicates what revision is allowed during the 30 day grace period and does not appear to speak to the issue of saving the .old folder offsite and using it beyond the 30 days.
> 
> If I missed it, show me where it is.


Exactly. Also, Andre is interpreting. From my knowledge he's just a frequent poster, like us here.


----------



## Caring1 (Aug 2, 2015)

jsfitz54 said:


> Your link indicates what revision is allowed during the 30 day grace period and does not appear to speak to the issue of saving the .old folder offsite and using it beyond the 30 days.
> 
> If I missed it, show me where it is.


Then you missed it because he mentioned saving Windows.old for use later.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 2, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> Then you missed it because he mentioned saving Windows.old for use later.



For later in that 30 days. MS seems very clear on only having 30 days. But we'll see on day 31 when soneone tries to retrograde.


----------



## jsfitz54 (Aug 2, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> Then you missed it because he mentioned saving Windows.old for use later.



I said, "show me".


----------



## Caring1 (Aug 2, 2015)

jsfitz54 said:


> I said, "show me".


Lol, don't be lazy.


----------



## jsfitz54 (Aug 2, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> Lol, don't be lazy.



Stop reading on a 5th grade level and posting conjecture.


----------



## Caring1 (Aug 2, 2015)

jsfitz54 said:


> Stop reading on a 5th grade level and posting conjecture.


Try reading, if you can.


----------



## jsfitz54 (Aug 2, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> Try reading, if you can.



Stop crapping up this post.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 2, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> Try reading, if you can.



We ARE reading. You are reading INTO, since you seem unaware what "conjecture" means.  You keep pointing to the posting by a guy, just a guy, who is not a MS employee.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 2, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> We ARE reading. You are reading INTO, since you seem unaware what "conjecture" means.  You keep pointing to the posting by a guy, just a guy, who is not a MS employee.



Not only that, but he doesn't even explicitly say what is being implied.  He simply says it's a smart thing to back it up, not that it works after 30 days.


----------



## jsfitz54 (Aug 2, 2015)

For the record, I just tried to copy and paste the .old file to an external HD.  It was going OK, then it got hung up on "permissions".
I went to properties and clicked the box to unhide hidden files and tried to change master permissions.
W10 did not like what I was doing mid save.
In the end after applying changes, the .old folder was moved to the external and is now no longer listed on the C drive.

I don't know if it is even a viable folder anymore.  The transaction was only supposed to copy the file, not remove it.

The rollback feature "button" is still present.  I have not rebooted yet.


----------



## Caring1 (Aug 2, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> We ARE reading. You are reading INTO, since you seem unaware what "conjecture" means.


To me it means the ability to think for oneself.
If you don't want any original thoughts, keep being a follower.


----------



## Caring1 (Aug 2, 2015)

jsfitz54 said:


> Stop crapping up this post.


You don't like others opinions, go somewhere where the other sheep all think the same.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Aug 2, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> We ARE reading. You are reading INTO, since you seem unaware what "conjecture" means.  You keep pointing to the posting by a guy, just a guy, who is not a MS employee.


Go directly to Microsoft if you're going to dismiss anything posted by users here as not coming directly from a Microsoft employee.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 2, 2015)

Divide Overflow said:


> Go directly to Microsoft if you're going to dismiss anything posted by users here as not coming directly from a Microsoft employee.


Exactly my point. Andre at Microsoft Answers and several people here are INTERPRETING, and as Caring1 even admits, it's his OPINION.

@Caring1 I have never been a follower, not in my military or civilian careers, both in action and in position. Followers take everything given to them and eat it up "yes sir, yes sir, three bags full, sir", just as you seem to be doing.  Leaders are inquisitive and questioning and call out things that don't make sense or look right.  Wanting clarification and inquiring are signs of intelligence.


----------



## jsfitz54 (Aug 3, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> You don't like others opinions, go somewhere where the other sheep all think the same.



Your regurgitation of others work (the link you provided), which is not on point to the discussion, makes you the sheep.

If you cannot provide anything useful here, then it is you that needs to go somewhere, and do some work and stop being lazy.


----------



## johnspack (Aug 3, 2015)

I myself question Win10.  I think it should be avoided until it's a proven os.  Not ready for prime time.  MS was too worried about building in all the back doors to actually make an os.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 3, 2015)

johnspack said:


> I myself question Win10.  I think it should be avoided until it's a proven os.  Not ready for prime time.  MS was too worried about building in all the back doors to actually make an os.



I'm more concerned about people calling an OS that lets you opt out of such things an OS with "back doors"

Seriously, you can turn 99% of that shit off by not using "express settings."  I don't get all the worry.


----------



## johnspack (Aug 3, 2015)

Bah,  I'll figure all that crap out in VMs.....  my system keeps fing up so it's hard to play with stuff right now.  I just don't see the point in win10 right now for my older hardware.  I guess for haswell and a gtx980 it's worth fing with.
Oh,  and start peerblock,  and then start Skype,  and watch how much unneeded traffic gets blocked.  Yes MS has backdoors up the ying yang.....


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 3, 2015)

Wait a sec...MS policy has ALWAYS been that OEM license is tied to a single motherboard. However, I've had plenty of occasions in which I've transfered an OEM 7/8.1 license to another computer. Of course it wouldn't activate at first, but I just had to make a quick call to MS automated activation phone line and it would be sorted out.

Does this mean that I can't do that anymore? Or will they have a staffed service that helps people with broken motherboard -> upgrade scenarios? Or are they going to be THAT company and make you buy a new Windows if your motherboard breaks?


----------



## johnspack (Aug 3, 2015)

And also,  if I upgrade my legal copy of win7 to win10,  can I go back?  Will my license change to win10 only at that point,  or can I go back to win7?


----------



## jsfitz54 (Aug 3, 2015)

What I want to know is, what is the current W10 Reserved Partition size supposed to be from a clean install?

The reason for asking is due to a failed attempt to upgrade my W8.1 to W10 as the reserve partition was 100MB with 98MB used space.  A no go, without full wipe.  Apparently, I had upgraded over W7 and successive upgrades to W8 then 8.1 did not resize the partition , which led to a failed upgrade path.

My W8 to W10 upgrade has a 350MB partition size and I am unsure if I should do a second clean install to enlarge it again.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 3, 2015)

johnspack said:


> Bah,  I'll figure all that crap out in VMs.....  my system keeps fing up so it's hard to play with stuff right now.  I just don't see the point in win10 right now for my older hardware.  I guess for haswell and a gtx980 it's worth fing with.
> Oh,  and start peerblock,  and then *start Skype*,  and watch how much unneeded traffic gets blocked.  Yes MS has backdoors up the ying yang.....



Problem is there.  Not with the OS.  Skype is a known backdoor farm.


----------



## johnspack (Aug 3, 2015)

Skype is offered through windows update now.  It's effectively part of the os too.  I know how to block the skype crap,  the win10 stuff scares me to be honest.


----------



## Frick (Aug 3, 2015)

johnspack said:


> And also,  if I upgrade my legal copy of win7 to win10,  can I go back?  Will my license change to win10 only at that point,  or can I go back to win7?



I think that's what the 30 day grace period is about.


----------



## johnspack (Aug 3, 2015)

No,  I already have a legal copy of win7 installed.  If I upgrade it to win10,  does my license stay at 10 or can I go back?  If I convert,  do I have to stay at win10?  I hate wasting money....  and time....
Sorry, but MS's policies are that confusing to me.  The legal activation version is the most confusing to me,  what do they want?  Can I then wipe out the 10 install, and do a clean install of 7 using my key again?


----------



## Frick (Aug 3, 2015)

johnspack said:


> No,  I already have a legal copy of win7 installed.  If I upgrade it to win10,  does my license stay at 10 or can I go back?  If I convert,  do I have to stay at win10?  I hate wasting money....  and time....
> Sorry, but MS's policies are that confusing to me.  The legal activation version is the most confusing to me,  what do they want?  Can I then wipe out the 10 install, and do a clean install of 7 using my key again?



That's what I mean. You have 30 days, then ... it becomes a Win10 license or something. Or it is invalidated. That's how I understood it anyway. Read back in the thread, it has been discussed.


----------



## johnspack (Aug 3, 2015)

Uchhh...  I'll run win7 for now.  Just so much easier.  I ran xp64 during the vista era,  everyone told me it was better and faster than xp64,  that was bs,  xp64 is still screaming fast.  Just uninformed people kept saying no drivers ect...
I never had a problem with drivers.  Now it's win7 against bloated win10.  And if you don't believe the backdoors are there....  alright.
And no,  you can't turn them off unless you block them,  just like skype,  and all the other malware and spyware ms thrusts on us.


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 3, 2015)

johnspack said:


> And no,  you can't turn them off unless you block them,  just like skype,  and all the other malware and spyware ms thrusts on us.


Meh. I have no problem giving them money to enable them to do it even more. I'd even let you look at my butthole.





Seriously though, if you have a cellphone... you're doing it anyway. So whatever.





BTW... I don't own a cellphone.


In case you might ask.


----------



## Frick (Aug 3, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> BTW... I don't own a cellphone.



That makes you, statistically speaking, an animal.


----------



## cadaveca (Aug 3, 2015)

Frick said:


> That makes you, statistically speaking, an animal.


Now think about the whole of my post, and you'll find I couldn't disagree. I'm a bloody old goat.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 3, 2015)

johnspack said:


> Skype is offered through windows update now.  It's effectively part of the os too.  I know how to block the skype crap,  the win10 stuff scares me to be honest.



Fair enough.  I just set it to not autolaunch.  I also use no express settings whatsoever.  I'm confident in my ability to limit W10's snooping.



> And if you don't believe the backdoors are there.... alright.
> And no, you can't turn them off unless you block them



On skype, perhaps not.  Just don't run it.  On the rest of the OS?  Yeah, you can turn them off.  That's been well established to work with wireshark and packet analysis.


----------



## Xzibit (Aug 3, 2015)

*NEWSWEEK - Using Windows 10? Microsoft Is Watching
*


			
				NEWSWEEK said:
			
		

> Tucked away in the  45 pages’ worth  of terms and conditions (effective August 1) is a substantial power grab: The company is collecting data on much of what you do while using its new software.
> 
> From the moment an account is created, Microsoft begins watching. The company saves customers’ basic information—name, contact details, passwords, demographic data and credit card specifics —but it also digs a bit deeper.
> 
> ...


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 3, 2015)

Sigh. Give him a break. Newsweek? Like checking CNET for a review of the i7-4790K.

And plus, everything in that article regurgitates what Microsoft tells you on the first page after a Windows 10 installation. Obviously Cortana and page prediction would allow Microsoft to record your data. Obvious things are not so obvious to everyone, I guess.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 3, 2015)

tabascosauz said:


> Wait a sec...MS policy has ALWAYS been that OEM license is tied to a single motherboard. However, I've had plenty of occasions in which I've transfered an OEM 7/8.1 license to another computer. Of course it wouldn't activate at first, but I just had to make a quick call to MS automated activation phone line and it would be sorted out.
> 
> Does this mean that I can't do that anymore? Or will they have a staffed service that helps people with broken motherboard -> upgrade scenarios? Or are they going to be THAT company and make you buy a new Windows if your motherboard breaks?



Not to worry about all that. THAT part has been made clear.  On the upgrade, W10 becomes the equivalent of what you had. So, if you had an OEM, your W10 will be OEM with all accompanying rules and restrictions, officially.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 3, 2015)

tabascosauz said:


> Sigh. Give him a break. Newsweek? Like checking CNET for a review of the i7-4790K.
> 
> And plus, everything in that article regurgitates what Microsoft tells you on the first page after a Windows 10 installation. Obviously Cortana and page prediction would allow Microsoft to record your data. Obvious things are not so obvious to everyone, I guess.



I think it's that a lot of people click "express setttings."  I'm always paranoid of that button.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Aug 4, 2015)

So can anyone answer my question of is it going to be something i will have to try down the road? Question was, if I have to use the oem restore partition on the hdd of my laptop say after the 30 days, will the win 7 os still activate? Meaning can I reuse the factory restore to put the laptop back as it came from factory after the 30 days?
Also the win 8.1 key and os on my main rig, can I use it on another rig if I wanted to and will it activate if I upgrade my main to win 10?


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 4, 2015)

Actually, based on MS wording, you can't. But the wording is somewhat vague, so I think we're in the position of having to try it to be sure, after the 30 days from someone's upgrade is past.


----------



## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Aug 4, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Actually, based on MS wording, you can't. But the wording is sonewhat vague, so I think we're in the position of having to try it to be sure, after the 30 days from someone's upgrade is past.


 Are you saying that about both questions? just wondering? 

I am still trying to decide if I want to upgrade my main rig to win and lose my Win 8.1 in the process or not. If I can upgrade and keep my Retail copy of win 8.1 I am okay with it.


----------



## Jetster (Aug 4, 2015)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> So can anyone answer my question of is it going to be something i will have to try down the road? Question was, if I have to use the oem restore partition on the hdd of my laptop say after the 30 days, will the win 7 os still activate? Meaning can I reuse the factory restore to put the laptop back as it came from factory after the 30 days?
> Also the win 8.1 key and os on my main rig, can I use it on another rig if I wanted to and will it activate if I upgrade my main to win 10?




We will have to wait and see for the first question. I think your recovery partition will work fine and activate if you need to later. The second one No you cant move your OEM key to another PC after upgrading. That would violate the license


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 4, 2015)

Answering first question.  But the second is similar. If in fact they are meaning what they say, your retail 8.1 if upgraded is "consumed" onto W10 as a retail, and after 30 days the 8.1 is gone.

I say wait, and let some dissatisfied people guinea pig it for you after 30 days.  There's no real urgent reason to upgrade right now, and you still have over 11 and a half months left.


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## Jetster (Aug 4, 2015)

Exactly


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Aug 4, 2015)

Jetster said:


> We will have to wait and see for the first question. I think your recovery partition will work fine and activate if you need to later. The second one No you cant move your OEM key to another PC after upgrading. That would violate the license


@Jetster  My win 8.1 key isn't Oem, it's a retail key. I bought it straight from Microsoft. 

@rtwjunkie I just may have to do that and let someone else try it out before upgrading my Win 8 rig (Main). The first question was referring to My laptop with a win7 recovery partiton. The Second question was referring to my Main rig (Selene in my system specs) which was a scratch install of win 8.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 4, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> You don't like others opinions, go somewhere where the other sheep all think the same.


At least those sheep will understand the difference between opinion and fact.


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## TheMailMan78 (Aug 4, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> I'm more concerned about people calling an OS that lets you opt out of such things an OS with "back doors"
> 
> Seriously, you can turn 99% of that shit off by not using "express settings."  I don't get all the worry.


Some people like back door action.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 4, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Some people like back door action.


I know what you and REAYTH do on the weekends.


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## TheMailMan78 (Aug 4, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I know what you and REAYTH do on the weekends.


Yeah we play gtav in fp and with a mouse like a man.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 4, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Yeah we play gtav in fp and with a mouse like a man.


Is that before or after the back door action?


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## Caring1 (Aug 4, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> At least those sheep will understand the difference between opinion and fact.


That's the problem with sheep, they think they have free will and original thoughts.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Aug 4, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> That's the problem with sheep, they think they have free will and original thoughts.



Thats besides the point I was trying to make.


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## GLD (Aug 5, 2015)

***411***

My experience with TechNet keys is they can be installed and activated on more then 1 pc at a time. Windows 10 has screwed this up for me. I put Windows 7 Home Premium (Technet key) on a bare hdd in my main rig. I activated it and then upgraded it to Windows 10 Home. I got the Win 10 key with Magic jellybean and then did a format and clean install a couple of times to make sure it's all good. The main rig is activated and doing fine.

So I put a bare hdd in another pc here and installed Windows 7 HP with the same TechNet key. Guess what? IT WILL NOT ACTIVATE Win 7 now on that pc. It may or may not activate Win 7 again on my main rig. 

I am aware that Win 7/8 Home upgrades to Win 10 Home in oem form, but beware! It appears MS does gimp the TechNet keys from a retail to oem configuration if you upgrade it to Win 10. I didn't expect to get my Win 10 upgrade to activate on any other rig then my main rig (I did try, it didn't work), but I didn't expect it to gimp the Win 7 TechNet key, but it did.


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## Ahhzz (Aug 5, 2015)

Remind me not to use my TechNet keys for this monstrosity, should I ever lose my mind and try that.....


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## cadaveca (Aug 5, 2015)

TechNet keys aren't exactly retail keys. These keys should be activated using KMS support I have bene hearing, but not 100% on that.


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## GLD (Aug 5, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> TechNet keys aren't exactly retail keys. These keys should be activated using KMS support.



Someone had to try this. I guess I am the wearer of the dunce cap. 

I didn't want to wait a month to see about the downgrade back to Win 7. It gimped it right away. Fook!

The TechNet keys aren't retail, I know that, but wtf MS! Why did you have to gimp the key?

On the plus side, I guess I can get more $ for my motherboard now if I sell it. It has a oem version of Windows 10 Home to go with it.


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## cadaveca (Aug 5, 2015)

Ha, but now that new boards have M.2 slots, seems that maybe the used market might be filled with boards with M.2 device/OS as package deal.


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## Caring1 (Aug 6, 2015)

WTF Microsoft, even though I'm not logged in to my Microsoft account, a notification popped up on my main computer to inform me my reserved copy of Ten was available.
Problem is I didn't reserve the copy on that computer, I reserved it on a laptop, why did it not specifically go to that device, I thought it used HWID as an identifier?


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## 95Viper (Aug 14, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> TechNet keys aren't exactly retail keys. These keys should be activated using KMS support I have bene hearing, but not 100% on that.



A little info on this.
Your keys from TechNet or MSDN are and can be Retail, OEM, Static Activation, Multiple Activation, Custom, or other.
You can go to your TechNet site and sign in.
Then click on the "Export to XML" link at the top right hand side of the key chart.
When you open this; there will be a column the shows the "Product Key Type".

Example (Keys block out, of course):





Here is an MS chart of the Key meanings from Product Keys and Activation for MSDN site... the key meaning, also, applies to the now defunct TechNet Keys.

Chart from the page:



 
*
*
EDIT:


Caring1 said:


> WTF Microsoft, even though I'm not logged in to my Microsoft account, a notification popped up on my main computer to inform me my reserved copy of Ten was available.
> Problem is I didn't reserve the copy on that computer, I reserved it on a laptop, why did it not specifically go to that device, I thought it used HWID as an identifier?



You do not need to be on a MS account any longer... you can be just a local user.
As long as you are connected to the internet they can find you.

Also, this may help explain some... as, it applies to the activation of Windows 10, too.

Microsoft quietly rewrites its activation rules for Windows 10



> Windows activation is alive and well in Windows 10. Microsoft doesn't like to talk about the inner workings of its anti-piracy software, but it's clear from testing that Windows 10 included a major change in the way activation works


Click link above to read more.


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## R-T-B (Aug 14, 2015)

GLD said:


> ***411***
> 
> My experience with TechNet keys is they can be installed and activated on more then 1 pc at a time. Windows 10 has screwed this up for me. I put Windows 7 Home Premium (Technet key) on a bare hdd in my main rig. I activated it and then upgraded it to Windows 10 Home. I got the Win 10 key with Magic jellybean and then did a format and clean install a couple of times to make sure it's all good. The main rig is activated and doing fine.
> 
> ...



magic jellybean won't help you.  The key is a generic key and the HWID is logged at microsofts activation servers, making your mobo your activation key, not your serial.  You CAN'T just move the install, at least not without contacting support with a legit RETAIL windows 7/8 license.


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## Jetster (Aug 14, 2015)

Yep. Just did a clean install (after the upgrade) with no serial number. Logged into my MS account and it activated my copy of Windows. Pretty slick


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## jsfitz54 (Aug 15, 2015)

Jetster said:


> Yep. Just did a clean install (after the upgrade) with no serial number. Logged into my MS account and it activated my copy of Windows. Pretty slick



Would you please post a screenshot of the "Disk Management" screen to show what the partitions look like.  Thanks.


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## AsRock (Aug 15, 2015)

Jetster said:


> Yep. Just did a clean install (after the upgrade) with no serial number. Logged into my MS account and it activated my copy of Windows. Pretty slick



Same here although i was not required to sign in to any other then the local account on the system.

Said this a while ago , all you have to do is upgrade wait for activation and do a clean install no ms email account is required.


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## Jetster (Aug 15, 2015)

AsRock said:


> Same here although i was not required to sign in to any other then the local account on the system.
> 
> Said this a while ago , all you have to do is upgrade wait for activation and do a clean install no ms email account is required.



I tried that. It did not work until I logged into a Microsoft Account after the upgrade. I just used a local account upgraded, then clean install local account. Put in Windows & Serial # It would not activate.




jsfitz54 said:


> Would you please post a screenshot of the "Disk Management" screen to show what the partitions look like.  Thanks.



I though I saw an additional partition when I did the install. Really small one like 60mb.


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## AsRock (Aug 15, 2015)

Jetster said:


> I tried that. It did not work until I logged into a Microsoft Account after the upgrade. I just used a local account upgraded, then clean install local account. Put in Windows & Serial # It would not activate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You might have to wait longer ^^, and self activation can just give a error.


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## Jetster (Aug 15, 2015)

Yea I didn't wait long. I'm not a patent man


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