# upgrading from 2700X to 5900X on a MSI B450M Mortar



## tvshacker (Sep 27, 2022)

After seeing the reviews (and prices) of the new 7000 series Ryzen, I've started to consider upgrading the CPU on my current setup to "maximize" it's potential and increase it's longevity since prices seem to be going up in the future.
I'm hoping for a good deal at around Black Friday on the 5900X since the 7000s and 13th gen Intel should be widely available by then.

My current setup is:


ProcessorAMD 2700XMotherboardMSI B450M MortarCoolingCorsair H80i v2MemoryG.SKILL Trident Z RGB (For AMD) 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3200MHz CL16Video CardAsus GTX 1060 DUAL OC 6GBPower SupplySeasonic GX-750
 
The main uses of this rig is web browsing and gaming. I have a 32" 1440p monitor and don't play a lot of recent/"last gen" games. I know that the 5700X would likely provide better bang for buck, but the 5900X seems to be more "future proof" because of the extra cores, and feels more like a better upgrade than going from an 8 core to another.
I believe I'm just a bios update away from getting 5900X support on my motherboard. But I'm a bit afraid that the old-ish motherboard and RAM will not bring as big of a performance boost as some reviews/comparisons indicate, since they seem to use better setups.
The other question I have, is if I'll be able to run 32GB of RAM at 3200Mhz (4x8GB), I seem to recall that it was not possible on this board, or at least on the 2700X. Is there a MSI expert in the house?

Thanks in advance!


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## tabascosauz (Sep 27, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> After seeing the reviews (and prices) of the new 7000 series Ryzen, I've started to consider upgrading the CPU on my current setup to "maximize" it's potential and increase it's longevity since prices seem to be going up in the future.
> I'm hoping for a good deal at around Black Friday on the 5900X since the 7000s and 13th gen Intel should be widely available by then.
> 
> My current setup is:
> ...



1. I don't see why you should be worried about worse performance. That should not be the case unless Windows is overflowing with gunk/half corrupt, or MSI somehow borked the specific BIOS revision you flashed. Do a clean install if you haven't in a while, make sure you get the latest chipset drivers, and be on a reasonably recent BIOS. Do a few simple benchmarks and if performance is roughly in the right place then there's nothing to worry about (e.g. 650/9500 CPU-Z, 1600/21k R23 etc)

2. 5900X being "futureproof" - unless you have productivity workloads that specifically benefit from >8 cores, that's not how futureproofing works. Games still don't make much use of all-core load. If anything, a 5700X has a good chance of being more futureproof due to how CCX works - some games only know how to fill a CCX (ie. COD), so on a 5700X the game will load all 8 cores while on the 5900X it loads only 6. If you want futureproof AM4 for gaming, buy a 5800X3D, no debate there unless you only play niche games that only ever scale with clockspeed and do not benefit from cache.

3. No reason why you can't run 4x8 at 3200. Your 2700X was probably holding you back there. An ordinary 4-layer 4DIMM like the Mortar should easily do 3600+ on a 4 x single rank setup, if your kit is capable. You'd have to have positively ancient 2015 DDR4 to be dual rank in that setup, and even then 3200 should not be an issue.


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## tvshacker (Sep 27, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Games still don't make much use of all-core load. If anything, a 5700X has a good chance of being more futureproof due to how CCX works - some games only know how to fill a CCX (ie. COD), so on a 5700X the game will load all 8 cores while on the 5900X it loads only 6.


I did not know this! Will it be on par with a 5600X? I'm going to try to find specific benchmarks, but feel free to share some if you know them please.



tabascosauz said:


> If you want futureproof AM4 for gaming, buy a 5800X3D


I never considered this since I believe it to be too expensive. Currently the 5900X is about ~420€ and the 5800X3D is ~499€, and since the 5800X3D is newer, I don't expect it to devaluate as much as the 5900X.



tabascosauz said:


> An ordinary 4-layer 4DIMM like the Mortar should easily do 3600+


According to the datasheet/specifications it can only overclock RAM up to 3466Mhz


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## tabascosauz (Sep 27, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> I did not know this! Will it be on par with a 5600X? I'm going to try to find specific benchmarks, but feel free to share some if you know them please.



Because Zen doesn't really scale on frequency, gaming performance is similar across the board for 5600(X)/5700X/5800X/5900X/5950X. Only the 5800X3D is the outlier. There's really no point going higher in the stack just for gaming performance, only for the cores. You can see this in pretty much every Zen 3 review.

The 5700X is a good choice - runs cool, clocks respectably, but you still get the 8 cores. If you were making this decision a year ago, the 5900X was better than 5800X for being thermally tolerable at stock with no tweaking, but the 5700X exists now. Again, unless you really need those cores, the 5900X isn't magically better just for clocking (ostensibly) higher.

You get potentially higher boost but it's really just for benchmark e-peen because of how Zen behaves. 5700X starts at a stock ceiling of 4650MHz I think, with a PBO max ceiling of 4850MHz if you have the core quality to hit that. 5900X is 4950MHz and has a 5150MHz max ceiling...........but exponentially more Zen 3 CPUs will be capable of 4850MHz than those that can go over 5GHz. I've seen 5900Xs max out at 5150, I've seen 5900Xs that struggle to hit 4800, my own is about right on the mark at 4950-5000 and no higher.



tvshacker said:


> According to the datasheet/specifications it can only overclock RAM up to 3466Mhz



That is the QVL. Max speed on QVL means next to nothing in memory overclocking, it only means the fastest kit they've personally validated on that board. Even less so for pre-B550/X570 boards because there's a mix of boards that remained only rated on Ryzen 2000 (where QVL sucks because the memory controller itself has a tough time breaking past 3200-3400) and others that had updated QVLs after Ryzen 3000/5000 release.


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## Batou1986 (Sep 28, 2022)

If you dont do content creation stuff like video encoding / editing the 5900X has more cores than you need, I agree with other posters the 5700X is the best bang for buck.
The best CPU for gaming your gonna get is the 5800X 3D if thats what you are after and tbh the 120mm H80i is getting quite long in the tooth so to speak so it might be wise to swap that out while your at and not worry about heat concerns.


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## Count von Schwalbe (Sep 28, 2022)

The only issue I can think of, even with the 5800X3D, is the PCIe 3.0 limitation. However, if you do not anticipate upgrading to a top tier card in this system within the next couple of generations, I reckon you will be fine. 

The 6600XT (x8 interface) loses a maximum of 7% when reduced to PCIe 2.0 - even if RX 8k and RTX 50 use PCIe 5.0, you will be in pretty good shape.


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## openbox1980 (Sep 28, 2022)

I would try for the 5600x or even 5600, you said it yourself, you only do web browsing and gaming. The 5900x wont game much better than a 5600x or 5600.


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## freeagent (Sep 28, 2022)

5600X is a great little cpu. For gaming I prefer it over my 5900X because it’s so easy to cool, for a nice quiet system. 5900X can be a beast..


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## tvshacker (Sep 28, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> However, if you do not anticipate upgrading to a top tier card in this system within the next couple of generations


I'm looking for a decent deal on either a RX6700XT or a RX6800



freeagent said:


> 5900X can be a beast.





Batou1986 said:


> the 120mm H80i is getting quite long in the tooth so to speak so it might be wise to swap that out


I wasn't worried about the cooling part since both the 2700X and the 5900X are rated at 105W, and from the reviews I've seen the 5900X doesn't use a significant amount of power over the 2700X.



Batou1986 said:


> If you dont do content creation stuff like video encoding / editing the 5900X has more cores than you need


I don't, but I've played with VMs in the past. But seeing intel pumping out an increasing the number of cores every year, makes me believe Windows and other software will eventually take advantage from the extra cores.
I come from a time where certain games would straight up not run if you didn't have enough threads on your system (I believe it was a Splinter Cell).



tabascosauz said:


> That is the QVL. Max speed on QVL means next to nothing in memory overclocking, it only means the fastest kit they've personally validated on that board. Even less so for pre-B550/X570 boards because there's a mix of boards that remained only rated on Ryzen 2000 (where QVL sucks because the memory controller itself has a tough time breaking past 3200-3400) and others that had updated QVLs after Ryzen 3000/5000 release.


IIRC the memory controller is in the CPU, but it's the board that dictates A-XMP profiles. So upgrading to the 5900X would increase RAM compatibility but I'd have to manually tune the RAM?


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## tabascosauz (Sep 28, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> I wasn't worried about the cooling part since both the 2700X and the 5900X are rated at 105W, and from the reviews I've seen the 5900X doesn't use a significant amount of power over the 2700X.
> 
> IIRC the memory controller is in the CPU, but it's the board that dictates A-XMP profiles. So upgrading to the 5900X would increase RAM compatibility but I'd have to manually tune the RAM?



They are very different CPUs on many different levels. At stock 5900X probably will run cooler in all-core, and sometimes hotter in single thread. Thermally they are just very different. Power draw is not a good way to compare heat output across generations of CPUs. 2700X's heat comes mostly from running higher Vcore and pulling more power; a stock 5900X's heat comes mostly from short boosting at a moment's notice (1-2ms).

Board doesn't create XMP, A-XMP is just MSI's gimmicky name for it like Asus' "DOCP"......the problem with the Ryzen 1000 and 2000 memory controllers were that they were just relatively weak. Ryzen 3000's UMC took a big step up (from generally 3200-3600 to a hair over 5000 if you're lucky) and Ryzen 5000 is still the same.

Seen plenty of B450 Mortars over the years doing good dual rank B-die OCs between 3200 and 3800. Dual rank or 4x8 can temper expectations somewhat (maybe 3800-4000 on a newer 4-layer (eg. B550 Mortar), maybe 3600-3800 on an older 4-layer). It's a decent board, it's just that Ryzen 1000 and 2000 UMC hold pretty much any board back, so the product page still reflects that. The Mortar MAX is pretty much just your board with a bigger BIOS chip - it has an updated QVL for new CPUs that's simplistic but still shows you the difference between 3000 and 2000 CPUs:






The 5900X just means that the UMC is not holding you back anymore. Your RAM is still a mystery as to ICs, before going any further probably figure that out. Fortunately all you have to do is look at the sticker on the sticks, and find out what the last 5 digits are in the string above the barcode that starts with 042.


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## authorized (Sep 28, 2022)

It's an EOL platform, I would only get 5600(X) and a better GPU (and probably will, as I'm in a similar situation).
I wouldn't even buy more DDR4 RAM because you'll probably want to replace this platform before you actually need that additional RAM.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 28, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> After seeing the reviews (and prices) of the new 7000 series Ryzen, I've started to consider upgrading the CPU on my current setup to "maximize" it's potential and increase it's longevity since prices seem to be going up in the future.
> I'm hoping for a good deal at around Black Friday on the 5900X since the 7000s and 13th gen Intel should be widely available by then.
> 
> My current setup is:
> ...


For your listed use case ONLY the 5800X3D would do it trounces the 5900X I myself just bought( I had reasons besides games).

The board might not do 4x3200 but also the chip might not.

And few game's need 32GB, 16GB in two sticks at 3600 would be faster and Stabler and the infinity fabric speed increase also really helps.


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## Mussels (Sep 28, 2022)

5700x is the better gaming choice with the single CCX design, the 5900x is better if you have multi threaded workloads or need the extra cache for something

That CPU cooler may be a problem, most AIO's only last 2-3 years before they start losing performance or just outright die - the 5700x for example would easily be cooled on a basic 120mm tower cooler, while the 5900x needs a larger one or another AIO
(I'm not confident an aging AIO designed pre-AM4 would keep a 5900x in the happy temp ranges for max boosting)


Consider going 4x8GB of that RAM if you can, as you tend to get an extra 10% CPU performance in a lot of game titles from four memory ranks on zen 3.
(2x16 is an option sure, I was thinking of the cheapest route letting you keep the existing RAM)

4x 3200 will be easy on B450, but not all will do any higher. I've ran into a few that won't do 3400 or above with quad rank, while x370 and x470 could with the same CPU and RAM.
Simply raising SoC voltage is usually enough for 3200 even with 4x dual rank sticks.


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## The King (Sep 28, 2022)

I upgraded recently from 5600/5600X to 5800X using the same mobo.
I have no major issues. The VRM on the B450M Mortar Max is nothing short of outstanding.
It would handle a 5900X maybe a 5950X OC'd with no problem.

I have noticed a better min fps in games compared to my 5600/5600X at stock.

Maybe look at the 5800X I seen it on sale for 260USD I think its a good deal at that price.


			https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5800X-16-Thread-Processor/dp/B0815XFSGK/


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## Mussels (Sep 28, 2022)

The King said:


> I upgraded recently from 5600/5600X to 5800X using the same mobo.
> I have no major issues. The VRM on the B450M Mortar Max is nothing short of outstanding.
> It would handle a 5900X maybe a 5950X OC'd with no problem.
> 
> ...


Some of the older MSI boards have VERY VERY super extremely bad VRMs - they learned their lesson and improved many of them, but wow some were pure trash - 

always research the exact variant, as sometimes they'd have very similar sounding names and some brands do shenanigans with V2 versions of boards


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## Mats (Sep 28, 2022)

*I'd say 5700X as well. *16 threads is more than enough for running a VM. If you're running multiple VM's doing some heavy lifting then that's another story.

Don't touch the RAM for now, as I highly doubt you'd see any tangible improvements. Well unless you run out of RAM on a regular basis.

The 2700X uses more power during gaming than the 5700X.







tvshacker said:


> ...since prices seem to be going up in the future.


While this is true, it's worth mentioning that with the launch of the Ryzen 7000 this week we've seen pretty much only $300+ motherboards, but this is about to change.
Lower priced boards will be released later this year, and DDR5 RAM prices are going down.

When are you planning to upgrade your graphics card?


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## The King (Sep 28, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Some of the older MSI boards have VERY VERY super extremely bad VRMs - they learned their lesson and improved many of them, but wow some were pure trash -
> 
> always research the exact variant, as sometimes they'd have very similar sounding names and some brands do shenanigans with V2 versions of boards


The OP already has the same board. There are no revisions to B450M Mortar or Max on the Msi website.

I own two of these boards and both have similar performance. No reason whatsoever that the OP board will perform different from mines.

No need for him to worry about thrash VRMS.   

*Only difference between the B450M Mortar and Mortar Max is that the latter has a larger BIOS chip.


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## R0H1T (Sep 28, 2022)

It could handle the 5900x or 5950x at stock, but won't boost that high. More importantly it definitely will not handle 5950x OCed as you said a post above. That's just asking for trouble. If the B450M was really that good people won't be flocking to the likes of x570 MAG/MPG boards.



There's an updated list but I'll have to check Tom's I think, the last link was removed from Google for some reason.


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## The King (Sep 28, 2022)

R0H1T said:


> It could handle the 5900x or 5950x at stock, but won't boost that high. More importantly it definitely will not handle 5950x OCed as you said a post above. That's just asking for trouble. If the B450M was really that good people won't be flocking to the likes of x570 MAG/MPG boards.View attachment 263426
> 
> There's an updated list but I'll have to check Tom's I think, the last link was removed from Google for some reason.


I just did I quick run with R23 on my 5800X @ 140W load and CPU temp of 88 the VRM barely got warm 54 degrees.


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## Dr. Dro (Sep 28, 2022)

My thoughts as a 5950X owner, buy a 5800X3D if money allows. Otherwise 5700X is a top pick from me considering your use case. Good luck.


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## xtreemchaos (Sep 28, 2022)

i went from a 2700x to a 3900x about 18 months ago and the difference in image processing is staggering i mean its morethan 2x faster but for gaming the diff isnt much maybe 5 to 10 fps. i agree with what othiers have said a 5600x or 5800x would prob be better if you didnt need the extra cores.


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## bug (Sep 28, 2022)

Just stating the obvious here, but if your main stuff is web surfing and gaming, you probably won't see much better performance after the upgrade. Web surfing is probably plenty fast already and gaming... it depends, you may see some gains if you're into FHD high-FPS. Otherwise, it will probably be the same.
So upgrade to get a better CPU for years to come, but don't expect magic because of the upgrade alone.


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## Zach_01 (Sep 28, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> After seeing the reviews (and prices) of the new 7000 series Ryzen, I've started to consider upgrading the CPU on my current setup to "maximize" it's potential and increase it's longevity since prices seem to be going up in the future.
> I'm hoping for a good deal at around Black Friday on the 5900X since the 7000s and 13th gen Intel should be widely available by then.
> 
> My current setup is:
> ...



I gone from R5 3600 to R9 5900X and I'm thinking now to keep the system past AM5, with 1 at least GPU upgrades in future. Most likely RDNA3 in the middle of 2023.

I had the CPU cooling though (H110i 280mm) that I got 63months ago (5+y). H80i will struggle to keep 5900X's temp tame under elevated loads.
The 5700X will be much easier to cool with your cooler. Unless you want to upgrade cooling too go for 5700X.
Gaming may be less demanding on cooling but still the 5900X can draw over 100W (PPT) of power on some games. 5700X may draw around half (maybe 60%) of what 5900X will for gaming.
The 5700X will be fine even with 2x8GB 3200MHz RAM.

You can always upgrade your GPU further down the road and this will upgrade your gaming experience more than any CPU or 32GB RAM will.
A RX6600XT/RTX3060 can easily double your FPS with an 2700X/5700X on the same game settings/res.
I know what a 2700X can do for gaming because my previous R5 3600 was around the same for gaming. Its not bad at all and could easily handle my RX5700XT which is about the same of the RX6600XT/RTX3060.

The reason I got 5900X and not a 5700X/5800X is because I tend to run a lot of stuff all together and some VMs from time to time.


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## Palindrome (Sep 28, 2022)

interested to hear about the performance gains you'll get from your upgrade since I'm in a very similar position. 2700X on a pretty average B450 board. do let us know how it goes.


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## Mats (Sep 28, 2022)

bug said:


> Just stating the obvious here, but if your main stuff is web surfing and gaming, you probably won't see much better performance after the upgrade. Web surfing is probably plenty fast already and gaming... it depends, you may see some gains if you're into FHD high-FPS. Otherwise, it will probably be the same.
> So upgrade to get a better CPU for years to come, but don't expect magic because of the upgrade alone.


My thought as well, that's why I asked about GPU upgrade. Upgrading now while hoping for some benefits a couple of years later when getting a newer GPU doesn't sound like a great investment.



Palindrome said:


> interested to hear about the performance gains you'll get from your upgrade since I'm in a very similar position. 2700X on a pretty average B450 board. do let us know how it goes.





Zach_01 said:


> I gone from R5 3600 to R9 5900X and I'm thinking now to keep the system past AM5, with 1 at least GPU upgrades in future. Most likely RDNA3 in the middle of 2023.


You both have a card that's ~twice as fast than the OP, and less likely to be GPU limited.


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## bug (Sep 28, 2022)

Mats said:


> My thought as well, that's why I asked about GPU upgrade. Upgrading now while hoping for some benefits a couple of years later when getting a newer GPU doesn't sound like a great investment.


Actually, today is probably the best time to get a 5900X, AMD will probably phase them out soon enough. Getting a GPU instead... I don't know, they're still pretty pricey.
But it all comes down to what the OP expects from his system and upgrade.


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## Mats (Sep 28, 2022)

bug said:


> Actually, today is probably the best time to get a 5900X, AMD will probably phase them out soon enough. Getting a GPU instead... I don't know, they're still pretty pricey.
> But it all comes down to what the OP expects from his system and upgrade.


Still, getting a graphics card for the the price of a 5900X will be a substantial upgrade from a 1060. But then again, it doesn't sound like he's into getting beefier graphics anyway.

A 5900X will give him.. faster browsing?  Nothing in this thread suggests that 24 threads is the best for the OP. AMD have said that AM4 isn't going away anytime soon IIRC. Also, I don't think it will be that hard to find a used CPU if he want's to.
A5800X3D doesn't really sound like a great idea either, well unless someone can show me how useful it is together with mid range graphics or slower.
*Edit: Now I saw his GPU upgrade plan.*


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## Palindrome (Sep 28, 2022)

Mats said:


> You both have a card that's ~twice as fast than the OP, and less likely to be GPU limited.


True, but in certain games that scale with clockspeed and single-core performance, in my case mainly CS:GO, I notice that framerates are less than stellar. Definitely still playable, and a high refresh rate experience, but not great considering this was AMD's flagship CPU a mere 4 years ago. The way I see it, I'm not making the most of my GPU currently, but as long as my framerates are fine, I'm still okay with that  mainly curious about how much of an uplift in performance OP will get because I'm in a very similar situation.


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## oxrufiioxo (Sep 28, 2022)

If I was upgrading to a new Zen3 cpu this late in the product lifecycle I would be going 5800X3D as it's by far the best gaming cpu and will likely last the longest for that use.
The 5700X/5900X are nice alternatives but the 12 core isn't going to be any more future proof for gaming than the 8 core.

edit. As others have said if you plan on staying with a weak 1060 and not at least going up to a proper midrange gpu upgrading the cpu is mostly a waste of time you probably should prioritize a gpu upgrade and then only upgrade the cpu if the 2700X is holding you back.


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## gffermari (Sep 28, 2022)

There will be thousands of second hand 5000 cpus out there. He can upgrade his 2700X any time he wants.
Also he plays at 1440p. If he cranks up all the graphic details, there will be little difference compared to a newer cpu.

The 1060 is hardly capable of playing at 1080p today.


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## bug (Sep 28, 2022)

Mats said:


> Still, getting a graphics card for the the price of a 5900X will be a substantial upgrade from a 1060. But then again, it doesn't sound like he's into getting beefier graphics anyway.
> 
> A 5900X will give him.. faster browsing?  Nothing in this thread suggests that 24 threads is the best for the OP. AMD have said that AM4 isn't going away anytime soon IIRC. Also, I don't think it will be that hard to find a used CPU if he want's to.
> A5800X3D doesn't really sound like a great idea either, well unless someone can show me how useful it is together with mid range graphics or slower.
> ...


5900X gives the OP peace of mind that he has almost the fastest CPU made for AM4. Who knows, 3-4 years done the road, web browsing may become a lot more demanding.

Anyway, it's not our place to tell him what to get. We can only lay down options, pros and cons. But it's still his decision.


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## R0H1T (Sep 28, 2022)

oxrufiioxo said:


> If I was upgrading to a new Zen3 cpu this late in the product lifecycle I would be going 5800X3D as it's by far the best gaming cpu and will likely last the longest for that use.


I could've had a $250 5900x about 6 months back, $700 6900xt WC 3 months back 
Eff it, will just get the $300 5950x next time


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## oxrufiioxo (Sep 28, 2022)

R0H1T said:


> I could've had a $250 5900x about 6 months back, $700 6900xt WC 3 months back
> Eff it, will just get the $300 5950x next time



I have a 5950X its nice def grab it for 300 usd next time, but the 5800X3D is much better for gaming so def get that one for $350. I wouldn't touch a 6900XT even for $500 though sucks at RT....


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## Colddecked (Sep 28, 2022)

Batou1986 said:


> 120mm H80i is getting quite long in the tooth so to speak so it might be wise to swap that out while your at and not worry about heat concerns.


Absolutely, grab a $40 Peerless Assassin 120 on amazon.  Probably better than the h80i at this point and way less noise.  The fans on the H80i are crazy loud.  

Agree with everyone saying upgrade to a 5700x to save money for a GPU upgrade.  Even a ~200 rx6600 would be a significant upgrade especially considering he's running a 1440p monitor.


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## Count von Schwalbe (Sep 28, 2022)

I would strongly suggest to the OP that a 5800X3D is the best CPU if he is not doing content creation. If the budget is a little tight, go for the 5700X. 

5900X only if doing a lot of video/picture work. 

The thing is, a decent CPU and ok MB can take a heck of a GPU. I know someone who is still using a Phenom in his main rig, but he upgraded the GPU to Maxwell before moving to a laptop due to travel. 

A 5800X3D would be massive overkill for a GTX 1060, but it would allow him to get even a 4080 when he can afford it. Heck, it would probably allow for a 5080 or similar.


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## Mats (Sep 28, 2022)

I didn't see his plans to upgrade the GPU before, should really have been in the first post. 

A 5800X3D is a better choice for a gamer and it also runs cooler (see my previous post), and a 5700X is the budget choice.
There's simply no situation where a 5900X will perform better given what he will be using it for.








						AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review - The Magic of 3D V-Cache
					

The AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D is the company's new flagship gaming processor. It introduces 3D V-Cache, a dedicated piece of silicon with additional L3 capacity. In our review, we're testing how much the larger cache can help intensive gaming workloads and applications and compare it to the Intel Core...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## tvshacker (Sep 28, 2022)

First of all, thanks for the great feedback.
I do understand that the 1060 is holding me back, but as @bug have said I can get a new GPU anytime, but the Ryzen 5000s are on their way out and I believe the next months are gonna be the "sweet spot" for a good deal (not counting used).



bug said:


> it depends, you may see some gains if you're into FHD high-FPS


I mostly play at 1440p. I hate how games look in FHD on this monitor, but I also have a Steam Link and occasionality play games on a FHD TV. Regarding FPS I have a frame cap on RTSS of 70. The only game I struggle with currently is GTA V.



Mats said:


> When are you planning to upgrade your graphics card?


Waiting for a good deal. Most of the games on my backlog still don't have Ray Tracing, so currently I'm tempted at the RX 6800. AMD already announced an MSRP reduction to 550$ but I'm hoping it goes lower, maybe around Thanksgiving/Black Friday. Or alternatively a good deal on the 6700XT since I don't expect the RTX3070 to lower to a decent price before next summer. Where I live, the cheapest 3070 goes for 629€ so basically still ~100€ higher than the MSRP from launch 2 years ago.



Colddecked said:


> Absolutely, grab a $40 Peerless Assassin 120 on amazon. Probably better than the h80i at this point and way less noise. The fans on the H80i are crazy loud.


I never understood how the H80i got the reputation of being noisy. It was more silent than the stock intel cooler of my i7 2700k, and still to this day I regret not spending 15€ sooner on the bracket for AM4 socket. The 2700X cooler that one was LOUD! And all the reviews said it was a very good stock cooler, bear in  mind my case is in the "silent" category.
I got sad when I learned today that they have discontinued the H80i and they haven't made an alternative (all of their 120mm AIO seem worse), and I'm not sure I can fit a 240mm AIO in my case.



Palindrome said:


> interested to hear about the performance gains you'll get from your upgrade since I'm in a very similar position. 2700X on a pretty average B450 board. do let us know how it goes.


Right back at you, if you get impatient and upgrade before me let us know!


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Sep 28, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> I never understood how the H80i got the reputation of being noisy. It was more silent than the stock intel cooler of my i7 2700k, and still to this day I regret not spending 15€ sooner on the bracket for AM4 socket. The 2700X cooler that one was LOUD! And all the reviews said it was a very good stock cooler, bear in mind my case is in the "silent" category.
> I got sad when I learned today that they have discontinued the H80i and they haven't made an alternative (all of their 120mm AIO seem worse), and I'm not sure I can fit a 240mm AIO in my case.







I reckon a 240 would fit, maybe even a 280. The above image was from the NOX-Extreme website. It sounds like you have a good upgrade roadmap.


----------



## tvshacker (Sep 28, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> View attachment 263507
> 
> I reckon a 240 would fit, maybe even a 280. The above image was from the NOX-Extreme website. It sounds like you have a good upgrade roadmap.


I currently have a SATA SSD near the top front fan. I'll have to look for another spot to put it.



tabascosauz said:


> Your RAM is still a mystery as to ICs, before going any further probably figure that out. Fortunately all you have to do is look at the sticker on the sticks, and find out what the last 5 digits are in the string above the barcode that starts with 042.






What do the digits mean?


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 28, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> I currently have a SATA SSD near the top front fan. I'll have to look for another spot to put it.
> 
> 
> View attachment 263511
> ...



8821C: Hynix CJR, I used to have one of these kits, a 3600 17-19-19 kit. If you're not unlucky it should have a bit of headroom to run say 3600 16-19-19 without issue.


----------



## Mats (Sep 28, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> ...but the Ryzen 5000s are on their way out...


Just a reminder, the 5000X CPU's will most likely be available for a long time, since that's what we've seen with older generations. The exception is of course the 5800X3D, I don't expect to find it in stock next summer unlike the other 5000 chips due to the special silicon.

As a comparison, here you have the 3800X being listed in 58 stores today, with the TPU review date of the 5800X (23 months ago) marked in the price history below.


----------



## tvshacker (Sep 29, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> 8821C: Hynix CJR, I used to have one of these kits, a 3600 17-19-19 kit. If you're not unlucky it should have a bit of headroom to run say 3600 16-19-19 without issue.


I'm not sure I follow 100%:

you were able to tune a kit similar to mine to 3600 17-19-19
you bought a kit with 3600 17-19-19 stock clock and timings, which have the same ICs as my kit.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 29, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> I'm not sure I follow 100%:
> 
> you were able to tune a kit similar to mine to 3600 17-19-19
> you bought a kit with 3600 17-19-19 stock clock and timings, which have the same ICs as my kit.



Correct, #2. Regardless of bin 3600 16-19-19 should really be doable for any CJR kit. Don't copy this one, it's a pretty low effort daily profile, but as an example:


----------



## Mussels (Sep 29, 2022)

Palindrome said:


> True, but in certain games that scale with clockspeed and single-core performance, in my case mainly CS:GO, I notice that framerates are less than stellar. Definitely still playable, and a high refresh rate experience, but not great considering this was AMD's flagship CPU a mere 4 years ago. The way I see it, I'm not making the most of my GPU currently, but as long as my framerates are fine, I'm still okay with that  mainly curious about how much of an uplift in performance OP will get because I'm in a very similar situation.


That's the type of game any Zen3 will massively boost your FPS in


Ryzen 5000 series will be around for a few more years, AMD have said they want to continue AM4 alongside AM5
We may only get minor refreshes over time to let them adjust prices, but they wont go away any time soon... hopefully they do drop in price even further


----------



## tvshacker (Sep 29, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


>


I have no idea of what most of the numbers mean! Can you recomend some reading materials/guides or videos?


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 29, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> I have no idea of what most of the numbers mean! Can you recomend some reading materials/guides or videos?



Good place to start:









						MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at oc-guide · integralfx/MemTestHelper
					

C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com
				




You can watch buildzoid on YouTube 


			https://youtube.com/c/ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking


----------



## Megas (Sep 29, 2022)

Unless AMD releases a 5600X3D the only logical upgrade for anyone who games on an AMD platform is the 5800X3D. Unless you need a CPU to do video rendering or something for work while you also game at the same time. My 2 cents.


----------



## Mats (Sep 29, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> Where I live, the cheapest 3070 goes for 629€ so basically still ~100€ higher than the MSRP from launch 2 years ago.


This one is down to less than half of MSRP, I think, although I'm guessing you're not in DE.








						XFX Speedster SWFT 319 Radeon RX 6900 XT Core Gaming ab € 1047,91 (2023) | Preisvergleich Geizhals EU
					

✔ Preisvergleich für XFX Speedster SWFT 319 Radeon RX 6900 XT Core Gaming ✔ Bewertungen ✔ Produktinfo ⇒ Anschlüsse: 1x HDMI 2.1, 3x DisplayPort 1.4a • Grafik: AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT - 16GB GDDR6 - Desktop • Chi… ✔ PCIe ✔ Testberichte ✔ Günstig kaufen




					geizhals.eu


----------



## tvshacker (Sep 29, 2022)

Mats said:


> This one is down to less than half of MSRP, I think, although I'm guessing you're not in DE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DAMN that's a nice discount, but I wasn't planing on spending that much on a GPU, but that would be probably cheaper than a 5900X+RX6800 and maybe give better results even when paired with a 2700X.
I live in Portugal.


----------



## Count von Schwalbe (Sep 30, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> but that would be probably cheaper than a 5900X+RX6800 and maybe give better results even when paired with a 2700X.


Doubt it. A balanced system will give better results than a system over focused on one part. It's a little bit like a chain - weakest part holds the whole thing back.

Although you could grab it and get a X3D later.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 30, 2022)

You could run higher settings without much of a performance loss, but you'd have the same FPS ceiling your current CPU gives you



If you run lower settings and the FPS doesn't go up, that's the CPU limit


----------



## tvshacker (Sep 30, 2022)

ModelPrice (cheapest)Cores /
ThreadsBase
ClockMax.
BoostL3
CacheTDPRyzen 7 2700X-8 / 163.7 GHz4.3 GHz16 MB105 WRyzen 5 5600X212€6 / 123.7 GHz4.6 GHz32 MB65 WRyzen 7 5700X283€8 / 163.4 GHz4.6 GHz32 MB65 WRyzen 7 5800X310€8 / 163.8 GHz4.7 GHz32 MB105 WRyzen 7 5800X3D459€8 / 163.4 GHz4.5 GHz96 MB105 WRyzen 9 3900X421,9€12 / 243.8 GHz4.6 GHz64 MB105 W




5900X​5700X​PROs​PROs​More cores and cachesimilar gaming performance with less power and cheaperCONs​CONs​more power/heatsame # threads as 2700X ("psychologically" feels like a smaller upgrade)recommended cooler upgrade to optimize boost performanceprice


The 5600X has incredible gaming value, but I can't see myself going for a lower core count, so that leaves the 5700X as the closest contender. I think in the end it will come down to price and since the 5900X is an older part I expect it will have a bigger discount (%) around Black Friday week.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 1, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> ModelPrice (cheapest)Cores /
> ThreadsBase
> ClockMax.
> BoostL3
> ...



For practical intents and purposes, the 5900X has 2x32MB of L3, not 64MB. It does have somewhat higher cache bandwidth in AIDA64, but that's about it. As with Ryzen 3000 and 7000 there is no direct connection between the two CCDs (cross-CCX communication goes the long way through the IO die and two IFOP links), and inter-CCD latency has always been slow, so in practice there's really no reason to consider the 5900X to have an L3 advantage. If any core was able to access 64MB in a meaningfully fast way, the 5900X/5950X would already have stood out the way the 5800X3D does.

I've spent about a year and half with my 5900X and watched its behaviour mature from AGESA 1100 to 1207, through a bunch of different boards, and Windows 10 to 11. I know exactly how you feel about the "psychological" upgrade. ST-wise and MT-wise it is a very strong CPU, and only gets stronger if you put it under custom water - but as the AM4 lineup sits right now, it would be my last choice for gaming, only ahead of the APUs. As far as the few games that I've seen utilize enough threads to matter, it's functionally a 5600X.

There is one unexpected feature that came of Windows 11, is that 5900X/5950X are essentially treated as big.little CPUs (think 12900K) in the new OS. Demanding ST tasks can be reserved for CCD1 cores (which always houses your best cores), whilst the scheduler will pick a core on CCD2 to handle the vast majority of your daily background tasks. I'm not committing to saying that it's a benefit, however, because in practice that CCD2 background core actually hogs a lot of gaming load too instead of giving it to Preferred Cores, so inter-CCD load juggling happens very often as a result possibly reducing performance. Windows 10 behaves very conventionally, meaning CCD2 is basically always dark until you fire up an all-core workload.

On the temperature front, however, it's not hard to cool. I understand you have a smaller AIO, but it should not be a problem (I'd be more worried about the age and reliability of your AIO).

I paid a rather mediocre price for my 5800X3D, but I just can't see any reason why I would go back to my 5900X. I just don't do enough to make use of those cores.


----------



## tvshacker (Oct 1, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> For practical intents and purposes, the 5900X has 2x32MB of L3. It does have somewhat higher cache bandwidth in AIDA64, but that's about it. As with Ryzen 3000 and 7000 there is no direct connection between the two CCDs (cross-CCX communication goes the long way through the IO die and two IFOP links), and inter-CCD latency has always been slow, so in practice there's really no reason to consider the 5900X to have an L3 advantage.


I remember this from when Zen 2 came out. I thought this wasn't an issue any more.


tabascosauz said:


> There is one unexpected feature that came of Windows 11, and it's that 5900X/5950X are essentially treated as big.little CPUs (think 12900K) in the new OS. Demanding ST tasks can be reserved for CCD1 cores (which always houses your best cores), whilst the scheduler will pick a core on CCD2 to handle the vast majority of your daily background tasks. I'm not willing to commit to saying that it's a benefit, however, because in practice that CCD2 background core actually hogs a lot of gaming load too instead of giving it to Preferred Cores as is expected, and inter-CCD load juggling happens very often as a result possibly reducing performance. Windows 10 behaves very conventionally, meaning CCD2 is basically always dark until you fire up an all-core workload.


You truly are a well of wisdom! Thanks for sharing.

Suddenly it became really hard to justify spending >200€ on a CPU for ~10% performance uplift (@ 1440p) when 400~500€ on a GPU will likely improve 80~100%








croped from:








						AMD Ryzen 5 5600X Review
					

Six Zen 3 cores beating eight Zen 2 Cores? That's exactly what's happening with the Ryzen 5 5600X. AMD's massive IPC gain helped it overcome a two-core deficitm, even in productivity tests. The Ryzen 5 5600X redefines what you really need for a high-end gaming PC.




					www.techpowerup.com
				












						ASUS Radeon RX 6600 XT STRIX OC Review
					

The ASUS Radeon RX 6600 XT STRIX OC is a custom design variant with a triple-slot, dual-fan cooler. The card achieves excellent performance in Full HD, giving you 60 FPS or higher in every single game we tested. Temperatures are very low, and overclocking potential is good, too.




					www.techpowerup.com
				












						AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT Review
					

The AMD Radeon RX 6700 XT introduces the new Navi 22 GPU, which is optimized to take the fight to NVIDIA in the $500 segment. The RX 6700 XT in our review beats the RTX 3060 Ti with ease and achieves performance that rivals the more expensive RTX 3070, with lower fan noise.




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## ibrahimtekin572 (Oct 1, 2022)

The King said:


> I upgraded recently from 5600/5600X to 5800X using the same mobo.
> I have no major issues. The VRM on the B450M Mortar Max is nothing short of outstanding.
> It would handle a 5900X maybe a 5950X OC'd with no problem.
> 
> ...



The price is good. But is it worth it to increase FPS at such a low value?


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 1, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> I remember this from when Zen 2 came out. I thought this wasn't an issue any more.
> 
> You truly are a well of wisdom! Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Suddenly it became really hard to justify spending >200€ on a CPU for ~10% performance uplift (@ 1440p) when 400~500€ on a GPU will likely improve 80~100%



The only difference for Zen 2 is that the CCX (4 cores) was half of the CCD (8 cores), so only Matisse's inter-CCX latency was just as bad as inter-CCD latency even when staying on the same CCD. The same design for Ryzen 3000, 5000 and 7000 chiplet products - there is only 1 Fabric link from each CCD to the IO die, latency between CCDs has never improved because there is no direct path to take.

With a 1060, it's better to think of the platform upgrade as setting you up for a newer GPU rather than getting extra performance out of your 1060. Whatever benefits you get are a nice bonus, but not too much reason to make the upgrade if you intend to stay with the 1060 for a while. Keeping the 2700X isn't the end of the world, especially if you want to wait a bit to leave AM4 behind entirely.

Radeon should be a little better than Geforce with old CPUs in some CPU-limited situations, shouldn't be a huge deal either, just something to think about:


----------



## Melvis (Oct 1, 2022)

Im in the same boat but I dont want to spend $720 on a 5800X3D.......considering the 7700X is cheaper and faster  

I dont have any issues running any games at good FPS with my 2700X so im not worried but a CPU upgrade is next on the list thats for sure.


----------



## The King (Oct 1, 2022)

ibrahimtekin572 said:


> The price is good. But is it worth it to increase FPS at such a low value?


For the Op who has a 2700X and gaming at 1440p a 5800X is less than 5% slower than a ZEN 4 7600X overall his 2700X is 30% slower compared to the 7600X.
So I would say yes. it is worth the upgrade.

*Depending on what game you play performance gap can change but in CS GO ZEN3 CPUs can offer almost double the fps compared to ZEN/+



Spoiler: 1440p

















						AMD Ryzen 5 7600X Review - Affordable Zen 4 for Gaming
					

Ryzen 5 7600X is the company's most affordable offering for the Zen 4 family. Our review of the 7600X confirms that this new $300 CPU offers huge performance gains over Zen 3, and can even beat the Ryzen 5800X3D in gaming. In applications, the 7600X is faster than the Intel Core i9-11900K.




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Zach_01 (Oct 1, 2022)

The King said:


> For the Op who has a 2700X and gaming at 1440p a 5800X is less than 5% slower than a ZEN 4 7600X overall his 2700X is 30% slower compared to the 7600X.
> So I would say yes. it is worth the upgrade.
> 
> 
> ...


We can indirectly compare the 2700X with newer generations as they include in their charts the R5 3600.
Roughly the R7 2700X = R5 3600 for games.

This chart (with too few games though) shows that the R5 7600X is about 50% faster (avg and lows) than the R5 3600
Consider also the 1080p, low settings and the 3090Ti. On more realistic res, settings and GPU this could be 30~40%? ...maybe less?


----------



## tvshacker (Oct 1, 2022)

The King said:


> For the Op who has a 2700X and gaming at 1440p a 5800X is less than 5% slower than a ZEN 4 7600X overall his 2700X is 30% slower compared to the 7600X.
> So I would say yes. it is worth the upgrade.
> 
> 
> ...


I think something funny happened in the Zen4 reviews. If you compare actual frame rates from a couple of specific games from the 5600X review with the 7600X one, although the GPU went from a 2080ti to a 3080, in the common games between the 2 reviews, the 2700X managed to get less FPS.


with RTX 2080 TIwith RTX 3080
















						AMD Ryzen 5 5600X Review
					

Six Zen 3 cores beating eight Zen 2 Cores? That's exactly what's happening with the Ryzen 5 5600X. AMD's massive IPC gain helped it overcome a two-core deficitm, even in productivity tests. The Ryzen 5 5600X redefines what you really need for a high-end gaming PC.




					www.techpowerup.com
				












						AMD Ryzen 5 7600X Review - Affordable Zen 4 for Gaming
					

Ryzen 5 7600X is the company's most affordable offering for the Zen 4 family. Our review of the 7600X confirms that this new $300 CPU offers huge performance gains over Zen 3, and can even beat the Ryzen 5800X3D in gaming. In applications, the 7600X is faster than the Intel Core i9-11900K.




					www.techpowerup.com
				







Mussels said:


> You could run higher settings without much of a performance loss, but you'd have the same FPS ceiling your current CPU gives you


I'm not sure this is what you meant with FPS ceiling, as we see in BF V.


----------



## Night (Oct 1, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> I'm not sure this is what you meant with FPS ceiling, as we see in BF V.


He's referring to a CPU bottleneck that's affecting the GPU.



> CPU and GPU struggles​When CPU slowdown occurs, it impacts the GPU, which cannot process the information fast enough, either. As a result, the GPU will struggle to render the game’s frames, leading to frame rate lag and a lackluster performance.
> 
> It is important to note that every system has some form of CPU bottleneck. It is impossible to have complete synchronization between a CPU and a GPU. However, a game can only run as well as its slowest component allows, and it is important to know if the CPU is the component causing the bottleneck.


----------



## jesdals (Oct 1, 2022)

Have had some problems with the MSI Tomahawk B450 and 4 dims with a 3800x cpu - so not sure if the Mortare would suffer from the same issue - but the Thomahawk - actually 3 of them actually killed memory modules when adding the second pair - was using Viper Steel 4400MHz dimms


----------



## The King (Oct 1, 2022)

jesdals said:


> Have had some problems with the MSI Tomahawk B450 and 4 dims with a 3800x cpu - so not sure if the Mortare would suffer from the same issue - but the Thomahawk - actually 3 of them actually killed memory modules when adding the second pair - was using Viper Steel 4400MHz dimms


I have no issue running 32GB 4X8GB DIMMS @ 3800 CL14 on my Mortar Max with my 5600 / 5600X. Running same the  RAM Viper 4400 C19

Will update a screenshot later. Getting a server error msg at the moment trying to upload an image here.


----------



## tvshacker (Oct 1, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Radeon should be a little better than Geforce with old CPUs in some CPU-limited situations, shouldn't be a huge deal either, just something to think about:


Amazing video, really interesting stuff going on there. (I usually don't watch this guy's videos because I don't like his accent, but this one was worth the "sacrifice")



> Radeon should be a little better than Geforce with old CPUs


I was already planning on it. The Sapphire RX 6700 (non-XT) is cheaper than most 6600XT, so something between the 6700, 6700XT or (wishful thinking) 6800.


----------



## jesdals (Oct 1, 2022)

The King said:


> I have no issue running 32GB 4X8GB DIMMS @ 3800 CL14 on my Mortar Max with my 5600 / 5600X. Running same the  RAM Viper 4400 C19
> 
> Will update a screenshot later. Getting a server error msg at the moment trying to upload an image here.


Good to hear, have helped build 3 Motar setups with 2 sticks and did fear that those setup would suffer from the same problem


----------



## Mussels (Oct 2, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> I'm not sure this is what you meant with FPS ceiling, as we see in BF V.


In any game, a CPU will always have a limit. That limit will vary per frame and per scene.

As an example, in starcraft II it doesnt matter if i have a 4090Ti, because i'll be at 30FPS due to single threaded AI late game - if i had a 5800x3D instead of a 5800x, I might be capped to 35FPS in that situation


I found my 3700x stuck at ~110FPS in a lot of DX12 titles on my 1080, my 5800x upgraded that to 160-200FPS. The 3090 let me achieve that same FPS, with higher graphical settings (mostly, the move from 1440p to 4k)


----------



## tvshacker (Nov 1, 2022)

missed this one...


----------



## The King (Nov 1, 2022)

jesdals said:


> Good to hear, have helped build 3 Motar setups with 2 sticks and did fear that those setup would suffer from the same problem


Running GMD off real 1T is also possible now with both my B450M Mortar Max Boards despite it being a 4 DIMM mobo.
I  was able to do it with 2 different sets of RAM Patriot Viper Steel 4000 C19 another 4133 C19.








						Share your AIDA 64 cache and memory benchmark here
					

I am sure you can get this 100% stable with AddrCmdSetup 56 and between 1.5V-1.55V. Your latency should do down to around 50/51ns if you increase VSOC and IOD. Do a post in the Overclock.net thread and post your Zentimings. If you want to run FCLK 2000 daily If not 3800 FCLK 1900 is more or less...




					www.techpowerup.com
				












						Share your AIDA 64 cache and memory benchmark here
					

Heh, ya well..... Back to some unaltered calculations.... Will represent the calculation ran at 10240 across 3 benchmarks. Of course there's variance. Performance Mark was never really accurate (lowest time) Chips and Cheese is nice because it tells you each calculation and the latency for each...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## iuliug (Nov 1, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> missed t





tvshacker said:


> missed this one...
> View attachment 268101


In what country?


----------



## Jeager (Nov 1, 2022)

he s from portugal so i think it was in FINLAND


----------



## Mats (Nov 1, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> missed this one...


Check the 5800X3D prices again, have they dropped €100 in your country as well?

Germany:




Ok maybe not €100








						AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D 8-Core 3.4Ghz SktAM4 - 100-100000651WOF
					

Compara os preços deste produto em 19 lojas e começa já a poupar.




					www.kuantokusta.pt


----------



## tvshacker (Nov 1, 2022)

iuliug said:


> In what country?


Portugal



Mats said:


> Check the 5800X3D prices again, have they dropped €100 in your country as well?
> 
> Germany:
> View attachment 268161
> ...


I had price alerts for the 5800X3D and the 5700X but this price for the 5800X is a bit bonkers...


----------



## tvshacker (Nov 17, 2022)

Count von Schwalbe said:


> View attachment 263507
> 
> I reckon a 240 would fit, maybe even a 280. The above image was from the NOX-Extreme website. It sounds like you have a good upgrade roadmap.



I've been looking into this, and they say a 240mm can be installed in the front and on top. One of the strongest candidates in this category is the Arctic freezer II and looking at the installation manual installing it in the front is a no go:







Also:









I'll have  to check the clearance at the top. The Arctic Freezer radiator is quite bulky.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 20, 2022)

units like the be quiet with the pump in the hoses can be shoved anywhere


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 24, 2022)

Idk if a cpu has been bought but In actuality, if You can get a 5800 OEM for less than a 5700X, go for it because they are exactly the same CPU. Also the mobo you have supports 3466 Ram via AMP, it may go higher with manual overclocking but that board would need good power phasing for the cpu and ram. A 5900 is still a viable option along with the 58003D.


----------



## tvshacker (Nov 24, 2022)

eidairaman1 said:


> Idk if a cpu has been bought but In actuality, if You can get a 5800 OEM for less than a 5700X, go for it because they are exactly the same CPU. Also the mobo you have supports 3466 Ram via AMP, it may go higher with manual overclocking but that board would need good power phasing for the cpu and ram. A 5900 is still a viable option along with the 58003D.


Where would I get a "5800 OEM"? I'm hoping to find a good deal tonight/tomorrow.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 24, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> Where would I get a "5800 OEM"? I'm hoping to find a good deal tonight/tomorrow.



The 5800 and 5900 are not retail CPUs. Only from Ebay or retailers that get their hands on tray CPUs. Same deal with the 4650G and 4750G originally at their release.

Tray Ryzens are only warrantied by the OEM whose computers they're meant to be installed into. It just depends how much value you place on that. My 4650G is still going strong, but recently a few people with 5800X3Ds haven't been so lucky (sudden death). My 3700X was hanging on by a thread by the time I got rid of it, and I did have to RMA my failing 5700G.

Somehow I get the feeling that you'll find some sort of good deal on a retail Vermeer CPU anyway on Friday.


----------



## tvshacker (Nov 25, 2022)

5700X ~240€
5800X ~280€ (in a previous sale dropped to 210€)
5800X3D ~380€

Best perf/€ seems to be the 5700X, but it's also the slowest of the bunch...


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 25, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> 5700X ~240€
> 5800X ~280€ (in a previous sale dropped to 210€)
> 5800X3D ~380€
> 
> Best perf/€ seems to be the 5700X, but it's also the slowest of the bunch...



If you get even a half decent 5700X, you should still be able to hit up to 4850MHz lightly threaded boost. Clocks don't really matter much in games for these CPUs, least of all the X3D which just doesn't care. X3D price in euros still seems kinda pricey

Unless the 5800X is outright cheaper than the 5700X, I'd leave it out of the running. All you're getting is a more CPU that must be tweaked for reasonable thermals+efficiency, and *might* allow you a shot at hitting 5GHz PBO for e-peen. For all-core loads 5700X and 5800X are basically the same. Extra power =! extra headroom

Are these all black friday pricing?


----------



## izy (Nov 25, 2022)

My 5700x boots 4850 all core in games with curve optimizer and 4.6 4.7 in stress tests on b450 tomahawk max
(fps capped to 75 in the game pic coz im just working on something but it does the same uncapped)


----------



## eidairaman1 (Nov 25, 2022)

tvshacker said:


> 5700X ~240€
> 5800X ~280€ (in a previous sale dropped to 210€)
> 5800X3D ~380€
> Best perf/€ seems to be the 5700X, but it's also the slowest of the bunch...



3.0-4.6GHz vs 3.4-4.7, 100MHz at top doesnt make much difference. 3.0 aint no slower than 3.4 in menial tasks.



tabascosauz said:


> The 5800 and 5900 are not retail CPUs. Only from Ebay or retailers that get their hands on tray CPUs. Same deal with the 4650G and 4750G originally at their release.
> 
> Tray Ryzens are only warrantied by the OEM whose computers they're meant to be installed into. It just depends how much value you place on that. My 4650G is still going strong, but recently a few people with 5800X3Ds haven't been so lucky (sudden death). My 3700X was hanging on by a thread by the time I got rid of it, and I did have to RMA my failing 5700G.
> 
> Somehow I get the feeling that you'll find some sort of good deal on a retail Vermeer CPU anyway on Friday.


Last year I got what I thought was a 5800X on ebay and got a 5800, I called the guy out for false advertisement, had the chip tested at microcenter to ensure it wasnt doa or would fry a motherboard. He gave me $100 back for the chip originally being 362, So I only paid 262 in the end and told him be honest about them.

The oem chip are great


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## tvshacker (Nov 25, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Are these all black friday pricing?


Yes. The minimum recorded price for the 5700X was ~221€ on the 22nd of November, but I missed it.


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## Mussels (Nov 28, 2022)

eidairaman1 said:


> Idk if a cpu has been bought but In actuality, if You can get a 5800 OEM for less than a 5700X, go for it because they are exactly the same CPU. Also the mobo you have supports 3466 Ram via AMP, it may go higher with manual overclocking but that board would need good power phasing for the cpu and ram. A 5900 is still a viable option along with the 58003D.


I can never find those OEM models cheap here, their availability varies wildly around the globe

5800x3D is down to $499Au, while a 5600 is $199
without a top tier GPU, I cant say the gaming difference would be worth it


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