# Your cooling setup and why did you choose/go that route?



## Tomgang (Jun 22, 2022)

I have been thinking about the pro's and cons about air vs. Aio vs. Custom water cooling vs. Face cooling. I don't think I will take dry ice or ln2 in this thread as that is extreme cooling and not very usable for every day use. 

So to simply sum it up. This thread is to discuss what cooling you have and why you choose that. 

I Will off cause start out. 

I use aircooled and have all ways used it. I use it do to price that's cheaper than custom loops and a big aircooler is just as good as a reasonable aio, less maintenance over customs water cooling and less things to go wrong means more reliable. Also because even throw custom water give greater headroom for overclock, with big ass air coolers like the noctua nh-d15 chromax.black i use, I have not been disappointed with the overclock results I got from it. Rather surprised by how far I could take my Ryzen 9 5950X (manuel all core oc to 4.65 ghz on all 16 cores and actually beating out several aio and custom loops) or for that matter the i7 980x (oc to 4.75 ghz all core at its best) I had before. Another reason I chose Air cooling for my current system was to be different. All the dual systems out there I cut find on the internet or on YouTube. Where all ways stuffed with custom water loops. So I wanted to do it differently with air cooling in stead. 

Con's for aircooling is that it is more noisy than a oversized custom loop that can run either passive or fans at very low rpm even with a power hungry cpu and gpu in the loop. Not all like to have a big aluminum block in the pc case and I will admit that a custom loop can look seriously nice in a pc and better than a big aircooler at times. But it doesn't bother me throw. Another downside of aircooling specially for us that use big dual tower coolers, can be limited to what memory we can use do to heatsink high on memory. 

So my cooling setup is as followed in my dual system. 

For my atx machine I use noctua nh-d15 chromax.black with thermal grizzly kryonaut extreme and swapped stock fans out with 1 120 mm and 1 140 mm noctua industrial 3000 RPM fan. 120 mm is do to ram modules high on my 5950X cpu. 

Gpu is stock cooler on my rtx 3080.

For the mini-itx system I use a Noctua nh-l9x65 se-am4 low profile cooler again with thermal grizzly kryonaut extreme paste and the stock fan swapped out with a ditto in there chromax.black line out on my 5600X cpu. 

Gpu is a gtx 1650 with a stock low profile cooler.

This is how it looks


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## P4-630 (Jun 22, 2022)

I went from a i7 6700K using a Noctua NH-U12A to a Z690 platform with a i7 12700K with re-using my Noctua NH-U12A,
max temp I've seen was 71c while running Cinebench R23 multi core for 10 minutes, that's good enough for me!
So I'm in no need of replacing my CPU cooler for something else.


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## AsRock (Jun 22, 2022)

Air cooling, less to go wrong and if a fan does fail very easy to replace.


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## Tomgang (Jun 22, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> I went from a i7 6700K using a Noctua NH-U12A to a Z690 platform with a i7 12700K with re-using my Noctua NH-U12A,
> max temp I've seen was 71c while running Cinebench R23 multi core for 10 minutes, that's good enough for me!
> So I'm in no need of replacing my CPU cooler for something else.


One of the good things is that noctua tend to provide a new socket brackets for free if you can show a invoice of buying a Noctua cooler. A great way to prolong a cooler and investment. 

With my 5950X at stock i se all core being around 55C and boost up around 68 C for single core boost that means around 5 ghz. With pbo all core is around 76 C while single core boost up to 5.2 ghz is 72 C. The manuel 4.65 ghz all core oc peaked at 86 C so that's the limit I can go as thermal throttle point for 5950X is 90 C. 

So no need to replace my cooler. 



AsRock said:


> Air cooling, less to go wrong and if a fan does fail very easy to replace.


Exactly my point for why I go air. Only maintenence is a paste change and dust off at times. Maybe replace a dead fan. Else air cooling just keeps going.


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## AleXXX666 (Jun 22, 2022)

Tomgang said:


> I have been thinking about the pro's and cons about air vs. Aio vs. Custom water cooling vs. Face cooling. I don't think I will take dry ice or ln2 in this thread as that is extreme cooling and not very usable for every day use.
> 
> So to simply sum it up. This thread is to discuss what cooling you have and why you choose that.
> 
> ...


what is that monster SLI/CROSSFIRE case?

my current cooling:
beQuiet! Dark Rock 4. Changed with friend for my purchased Dark Rock Pro 4 because I'm tired of bulky size. Currently using it on i5-11400F. Previously it was silent and good with i7-10700K.
beQuiet! provided me LGA1700 mounting for free too, i don't know if it was temporary campaign or perpetual.

Previously I've used Corsair H100 AIO, but it started to be noisy but I wanted silence for BARGAIN price. Yeah, that's me, I don't like overpriced products, I am a person who likes to understand actually for what I'm paying exactly this sum of $$$. So, got Dark Rock Pro 4 even I thought it was overpriceproduct, but comparing to AIO it was pretty cheap lol


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## Blaeza (Jun 22, 2022)

I got a Vetroo V5 as I've got a low power CPU and after seeing it recommended by JayzTwoCents.  I also don't trust water in my computer, no matter what people say!  Air cooling is much less of a risk.


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## Tomgang (Jun 22, 2022)

AleXXX666 said:


> what is that monster SLI/CROSSFIRE case?
> 
> my current cooling:
> beQuiet! Dark Rock 4. Changed with friend for my purchased Dark Rock Pro 4 because I'm tired of bulky size. Currently using it on i5-11400F. Previously it was silent and good with i7-10700K.
> ...


The case itself is a Phanteks Enthoo 719, but can in some countries also be known as Phanteks Luxe 2. 

A good little bugget system you have. I am however the opposite. I like the high end stuff, but keep it for as long as possible. I plan to keep my current for 8 years means I will have to get 7 years more out of it. Well I was on X58 for 12 years so... 

About aio. I is my opinion that aio hold for 3 to 5 years then need replacement. Do to failure. Either pump, to little water left, cooler head is clogged up or something like that. Aircooled keeps going and unless you brake it, hold up the entire pc lifespan and then some more.


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## ThrashZone (Jun 22, 2022)

Hi,
Worst thing about air cooling is the cooler normally blocks memory and some electrical connections 
Otherwise great.

AIO is to offer access to everything an air cooler blocks.

Custom water loops mostly more money than sense 

Right now I have one build all air and two on custom loops.


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## Tomgang (Jun 22, 2022)

Blaeza said:


> I got a Vetroo V5 as I've got a low power CPU and after seeing it recommended by JayzTwoCents.  I also don't trust water in my computer, no matter what people say!  Air cooling is much less of a risk.


The same do I neither. I am not fund of having water in my computer or close to any electric equipment for that matter. Not that I dislike water. As I mentioned custom water loop can look really nice. All throw there are none conductive water for this purpose. But still, not something I will put in a pc. 

There are just more stuff to go wrong and leaks, uff I don't like to think of leaks, specially as I have my pc running at times with out being home. There I simply more trust aircooling.


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## Sithaer (Jun 22, 2022)

Budget air cooling here.

I'm not an overclocker and mainly use low power CPUs that can get by with 25-35$ air coolers just fine.
Had a Be Quiet pure rock slim on my previous 1600x and currently I have a ID-Cooling SE 224 XT ARGB V3  on my i3 12100F which keeps it cool and dead silent.

Tho I kinda like the look of AIOs since I'm also not a big fan of a big block of metal in my PC but an AIO would be a complete overkill/expensive for my needs.
Also like the look of top down _'downdraft'_ air coolers but there is just none for LGA 1700 in my budget range so I  ended up with this tower cooler. _'at least its still not oversized and I kinda like the design'_


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## Bones (Jun 22, 2022)

I always use air with my daily, I have a few high end air coolers that do well but depending on what I'm running at the time it can vary - I use my Icegiant on my AM4 stuff and I recently modded it to work with my AM3 stuff too. 
What I'm running ATM is using a Zalman 92mm all copper cooler with my 7700K and it works but I have other coolers I could use, including my monster Scythe Susanoo cooler if I want. 
TBH I've had enough time by now to buy and have all the coolers I'll ever need, stock or otherwise.


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## Awwwyeahhhbaby (Jun 22, 2022)

I've been custom building since the 90's, started all air-cooling because that was basically mainstream and any watercooling was largely DIY. As watercooling advanced I stuck with air cooling until CPUs started pushing well over 200w and then air coolers and AIOs started to show their limits. I finally moved to custom loop watercooling for all my personal builds solely due to keeping temps in check while keeping sound to a minimum. I run most of my PCs 24/7 for gaming, mining and work and tend to overclock the CPU and GPU to their max. 

Realistically, air cooling has been perfectly fine for 95% of what people do, once you start pushing higher voltages/wattages or are looking for the beauty of silence you run into limitations with air coolers and many AIOs. For pushing a system hard but not getting into highly specialized cooling like LN or chillers, watercooling has been my go-to although it costs a lot for a nice custom loop, most of the parts are able to be reused for new builds which is nice.

Right now my builds all have D5 pumps, PETG tubing, full GPU blocks and monoblocks for the CPU/VRMs and I have had zero issues just like air coolers, just better thermal management.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 22, 2022)

Probably 15 years ago I went with an external water-cooling solution and have never went back. Radiators, pump, reservoir with quick disconnect hoses in an external case. I haven't needed to upgrade it for a looong time. Best investment in cooling ever. Only needed new blocks for different chipsets and GPU's. I recently just moved all my components into a newer case. More cost upfront, especially for quality parts,  but much lower lifetime costs for top of the line cooling and overclocking. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C71Q8PA/ref=twister_B07RQ2SWM7

Also it wasn't that expensive. Don't buy "water-cooling" hoses. Just go to homedepot and get it for like .33 a foot. Don't use "Water-cooling" fittings go to a hardware store. My reservior is custom made from PVC pipe, it's inside a box why do I care how it looks? Don't buy "water-cooling" additives. Use Distilled water with a little distilled vinegar. And finally make sure you are not mixing metals. Always get nickel plated or copper blocks.


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## Space Lynx (Jun 22, 2022)

air only and air forever... mainly cause every time I come close to doing water of any kind I get scared of leaks. 

just not worth the risk, however small, to do water imo


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## Shrek (Jun 22, 2022)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Use Distilled water with a little distilled vinegar.



Vinegar is acetic acid and will eat at metals.




Tomgang said:


> Con's for aircooling is that it is more noisy than ...



I moved one of my CPU fans to a Noctua to keep things quite.


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## Tomgang (Jun 22, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Vinegar is acetic acid and will eat at metals.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Coolers and cooler fans are from noctua. However case fans are not. They are lian li uni fan SL120 in black. They are more noisy than I thought at first. Unfortunately noctua doesn't make any RGB fans.


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## P4-630 (Jun 22, 2022)

Tomgang said:


> Unfortunately noctua doesn't make any RGB fans.


It doesn't make your system faster anyway... 

I rather have a quiet system without RGB fans than other way around.


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## ThrashZone (Jun 22, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Vinegar is acetic acid and will eat at metals.


Hi,
Nickel plating yes
Copper or brass wouldn't care.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 22, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Vinegar is acetic acid and will eat at metals.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes it is, but you only use 3-5 drops in a 32floz of distilled water. Also why it's important to use metals that are friendly towards each other. haha. Also the internals of my radiators look excellent for being nearly 7 years old.


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## maxfly (Jun 22, 2022)

After wcing for 20+ years its just what I do at this point. I value silence and low temps above all else and of course there's the added bonus of, it just looks so much cooler than anything else. I've mastered both silence and low temps with water and I enjoy the process. So I'll continue to wc until It becomes so overly commercialized that I cant stand it anymore.

   I use heatsinks as well. Mostly when I'm feeling lazy or haven't got alot of time (always hehe).  I sometimes use a hsf in a back up rig if I'm testing a new model. They are the standard with 99% of my client builds. Mostly because I hate in home calls these days. Wced rigs always require more attention (people generally aren't very smart).The older I get the less free time I seem to have, funny how that works.

 Aios? Never used one and probably never will. Being that I'm not a very trusting person, I cant see myself ever using a mass produced aluminum radded hunka chunka that some overseas minimum wager put together while dreaming of their next smart phone app fix. I'll go ahead and build my own ;D 

That's my story and I'm stickin to it!


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## tabascosauz (Jun 22, 2022)

For the first few months this year I had a loop going. Honestly 3 separate loops, since it distinctly changed 3 times (CPU only in Cerberus, CPU+GPU in Cerberus X, CPU+GPU in Core P3).

I went back to air only with the old NH-C14S, to accommodate the new GPU. Core P3 wouldn't fit the GPU length-wise, didn't like the 3070 Ti WBs, and didn't want to take the card apart after the RMA nightmare.

Water was nice, the cooling perf for both 5900X and GPU were unparalleled. Less noise was great too. But it was really tedious to put together/make small adjustments/maintain. My hands were raw, cut or peeling after every loop/major adjustment. And CPU performance really isn't any different in actuality despite the great temps.

The loop is actually still together as a whole. I haven't found the time to drain and disassemble it yet. If everything cleans up nicely, I might consider making a simple CPU-only loop with a pump block, in my next case. Hate having to plan where reservoir goes in a small case. Never would consider an AIO.


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## Shrek (Jun 22, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Copper or brass wouldn't care.



I beg to differ.


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## freeagent (Jun 22, 2022)

I like air because it’s simple, and effective. I had an AIO once and thought it was good too until permeation set in. Then it was just a waste of money. I will probably try water cooling at some point..


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## ThrashZone (Jun 22, 2022)

Shrek said:


> I beg to differ.


Hi,
Never seen any copper or brass damaged by vinegar personally 
No need to beg man just post up some source showing damage you claim will do.


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## eidairaman1 (Jun 22, 2022)

Air, simplicity, to prove that I didn't need  220W chip with AIO to reach 5GHz in 2014. I did it with a 125W chip on a thinner unit as well


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## Shrek (Jun 22, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> just post up some source showing damage you claim will do.



Copper in Vinegar Experiment - Bing video


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## kapone32 (Jun 22, 2022)

Well my system is all Water cooled (sort of). The 5950X is being cooled by a Inwin SR36 AIO with 2 pumps. The GPU is cooled by an EK block with Alphacool Quick connect tubing (painless) with a Alphacool pump/res and a 420MM rad. The Case is the Phanteks Enthoo Pro2. The GPU rad is installed in the roof to exhaust the hot GPU temps. The CPU is in the side panel with the fans on the outside pulling air out of the rad. That allows for me to have 3 front fans for intake and 3 bottom fans for intake. I am not a fan of having any rad at the front for intake. 

I have always been a fan of Full tower cases though. My last 3 Cases have been the Raven V02 from Silverstone, Thermaltake Level 20 (My largest and most flexible case ever) and the previously mentioned Enthoo Pro2. The fans from the AIO are on the bottom and I use some sickle flow Cooler Master 120s on the AIO rad to have nice quiet cooling. All of the other fans are Phanteks ARGB SK140mm that have a beautiful lighting effect and move nice air. My system is so quiet that I totally enjoy it. I love the Alphacool Quick connect because it allows for me to change parts without draining the whole loop. That means I can get a GPU, buy a block and just get 2 Quick connect tubes to do a 15 minute add on.


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## ThrashZone (Jun 22, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Copper in Vinegar Experiment - Bing video


Hi,
It would take years of pure vinegar to damage copper or brass.
I don't personally use the stuff but it's not a fast process.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 22, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Copper in Vinegar Experiment - Bing video



Come on that's pure Vinegar. I use heavily, heavily diluted. As I said none of my blocks or radiators have any signs of etching, staining or issues at all and if it does by that time I would just upgrade it like 15 years later.


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## Shrek (Jun 22, 2022)

I agree, it _*might*_ take years, even when accelerated by higher temperatures.

Didn't mean to get off-topic


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## 68Olds (Jun 22, 2022)

I've been running custom water on my main PC since 4.1GHz socket 478 Prescott days.  Had a small leak on a fitting when the loop was connected to my 4.65GHz FX 8320 rig, but didn't suffer any damage from it.  I'm still using the same pump & reservoir on my current AMD R7 rig that I was using on that old Prescott.  Good water components can be an investment that can last you many years through many builds.


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## xtreemchaos (Jun 22, 2022)

cpu/gpu custom loops on both my riggs, just because i can really i think air cooled riggs look as good as custom loops but ive lots of jobs for folks with water so have bits left over and its a shame to not use them.


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## johnspack (Jun 22, 2022)

Heh,  been running my NH-D14 for years and years.  Got it for my 950,  then it went on my x5950 xeon,  then I got the 2011 adapter, and ran it on my 1650,  1680 and 2697....  still keeps my cpus really cool,  have no use for water cooling.


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## AusWolf (Jun 22, 2022)

AIO for me. Every time.

I'm a silence freak, but also a small form factor freak. Big tower coolers usually don't fit in the cases that I choose, but I can use the fan mounts for the radiator. Also, the pump doesn't weigh so heavily on the motherboard, and the exhausted heat doesn't add to the overall case temperature. It looks better than a chunk of metal, as well. A custom setup would perform even better, but I don't want the hassle.


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## mama (Jun 23, 2022)

This is a great thread.  I've been thinking about going custom loop for my next build.  My current rig is on air for simplicity mainly and air is all I know really. Bit concerned as to the size of case required for a solid custom loop.


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## Audioave10 (Jun 23, 2022)

I like 95watt (or less) CPU's and have always went with the midsize tower air coolers. I still use a Zalman copper cooler in one PC 
that is 12 years old. I keep it simple and play older games anyway. I can OC from 3GB to 3.5GB with no real temp increase. The AIO's look
great but I still don't like water.


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## kapone32 (Jun 23, 2022)

mama said:


> This is a great thread.  I've been thinking about going custom loop for my next build.  My current rig is on air for simplicity mainly and air is all I know really. Bit concerned as to the size of case required for a solid custom loop.


The biggest issue is the res. Alphacool Aurora has the res on the CPU block. When you think about that is a serious amount of fluid to soak into.



AusWolf said:


> AIO for me. Every time.
> 
> I'm a silence freak, but also a small form factor freak. Big tower coolers usually don't fit in the cases that I choose, but I can use the fan mounts for the radiator. Also, the pump doesn't weigh so heavily on the motherboard, and the exhausted heat doesn't add to the overall case temperature. It looks better than a chunk of metal, as well. A custom setup would perform even better, but I don't want the hassle.


AIOs are a no brainer for noise. Noctua coolers are no slouches in that department though. Generally speaking an AIO is much easier to install as well.


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## looniam (Jun 23, 2022)

Shrek said:


> I agree, it _*might*_ take years, even when accelerated by higher temperatures.
> 
> Didn't mean to get off-topic


don't worry. 
its actually recommended to use ketchup or distilled white vinegar to clean your blocks/rads if you want to avoid harsh chemicals. not sure about some homebrew coolant but i've seen enough millwrights put together custom cooling that will have everyone (esp boutique builders!) pull their hair out. to them, compare to their day job, it's a toy. 

i'm sorta thinking this is still all "what cooling and why" framework, no?


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## freeagent (Jun 23, 2022)

kapone32 said:


> AIOs are a no brainer for noise.


Really? You still have a couple of fans, and a pump.. How loud your system is depends on your choice of fans, and corresponding curves.. I know that sounds pretty obvious, but not all cases and fans are created equal. My AIO was no quieter than what I run now.. well maybe a tad because I didn't have 3K fans back then.  If you feed your AIO fresh air, that is a better shot at cooler temps than most people normally give an air cooler, which usually swelters inside a quiet case with less than ideal airflow.

But feed that cooler lots of fresh air and sunlight and it will grow to make you a proud operator


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## kapone32 (Jun 23, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Really? You still have a couple of fans, and a pump.. How loud your system is depends on your choice of fans, and corresponding curves.. I know that sounds pretty obvious, but not all cases and fans are created equal. My AIO was no quieter than what I run now.. well maybe a tad because I didn't have 3K fans back then.  If you feed your AIO fresh air, that is a better shot at cooler temps than most people normally give an air cooler, which usually swelters inside a quiet case with less than ideal airflow.
> 
> But feed that cooler lots of fresh air and sunlight and it will grow to make you a proud operator


That is why I have 6 intake (4 Pin) fans and tune them to run at a higher RPM (200) than the exhaust fans on the rad and at the back. The Phanteks SK140s (7) are as quiet as Noctua DH15 fans. The Pump on my Alphacool unit is whisper quiet. Maybe it's because I have a 420mm rad but I feel there is enough fluid to absorb most of the pump noise anyway. I do not recommend using the stock fans on some AIOs though. I have a Cooler Master Nepton 280 (in some ways the best AIO ever) and those fans sounded like a hair dryer but again Phanteks had some 140mm fans that fit into 120mm holes that made the cooler 2 degrees cooler and about 20DB lower at the same time. My Gaming PC is in my bedroom so the Wife has to get quiet sleep and that dictates my cooling purchases. To be honest the introduction of Zero fan software (and all it's initial Gremlins) drove me to water cooling in the first place.



kapone32 said:


> That is why I have 6 intake (4 Pin) fans and tune them to run at a higher RPM (200) than the exhaust fans on the rad and at the back. The Phanteks SK140s (7) are as quiet as Noctua DH15 fans. The Pump on my Alphacool unit is whisper quiet. Maybe it's because I have a 420mm rad but I feel there is enough fluid to absorb most of the pump noise anyway. I do not recommend using the stock fans on some AIOs though. I have a Cooler Master Nepton 280 (in some ways the best AIO ever) and those fans sounded like a hair dryer but again Phanteks had some 140mm fans that fit into 120mm holes that made the cooler 2 degrees cooler and about 20DB lower at the same time. My Gaming PC is in my bedroom so the Wife has to get quiet sleep and that dictates my cooling purchases. To be honest the introduction of Zero fan software (and all it's initial Gremlins) drove me to water cooling in the first place.


The only 3K fan I ever had was a Scythe Typoon 120mm but it is 3 pin so no thank you. You could easily slice carrots with that.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 23, 2022)

mama said:


> This is a great thread.  I've been thinking about going custom loop for my next build.  My current rig is on air for simplicity mainly and air is all I know really. Bit concerned as to the size of case required for a solid custom loop.


Then go external. It's really the best. Removes all the heat from the case and with quick disconnects you don't have to worry about moving. Then there is the fact you can use longer tubes to move the cooler to better locations under your desk.


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## kapone32 (Jun 23, 2022)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Then go external. It's really the best. Removes all the heat from the case and with quick disconnects you don't have to worry about moving. Then there is the fact you can use longer tubes to move the cooler to better locations under your desk.


That is an interesting concept.


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## 68Olds (Jun 23, 2022)

I did water in a bucket for many years.  I couldn't be bothered with properly fitting everything in my old skool rocketfish case.  Not sure how many years it sat on the desk with no side panel.  
This was LGA775 C2Q 9650.





I finally rounded out my hole saw collection & got everything in the case.  Still using the 3x120 rad with res & pump in the case.
FX 8320



And the R7 3800 system



Very low key...


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## AusWolf (Jun 23, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Really? You still have a couple of fans, and a pump.. How loud your system is depends on your choice of fans, and corresponding curves.. I know that sounds pretty obvious, but not all cases and fans are created equal. My AIO was no quieter than what I run now.. well maybe a tad because I didn't have 3K fans back then.  If you feed your AIO fresh air, that is a better shot at cooler temps than most people normally give an air cooler, which usually swelters inside a quiet case with less than ideal airflow.
> 
> But feed that cooler lots of fresh air and sunlight and it will grow to make you a proud operator


Most AIOs come with quiet pumps nowadays, and fans can be swapped if needed. I can heartily recommend Be Quiet! My Silent Loop 2 is whisper quiet on my 11700 at 80 °C max even with a near 200 W load.


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## Mussels (Jun 23, 2022)

I went custom water, because in 40C ambients PC go whirrrrr every summer.

If i could have got an AIO on the GPU, i'd have settled for that.



ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Never seen any copper or brass damaged by vinegar personally
> No need to beg man just post up some source showing damage you claim will do.


all my blocks are damaged from vinegar, it totally can scuff them up. Sure you can clean them again, but vinegar totally can mess with the finish.


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## AusWolf (Jun 23, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I went custom water, because in 40C ambients PC go whirrrrr every summer.
> 
> If i could have got an AIO on the GPU, i'd have settled for that.


I wish more GPUs (even mid-range ones) came with AIOs. I wouldn't have to settle with an overpriced and over-specced 6500 XT just to avoid noise.


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## Mussels (Jun 23, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I wish more GPUs (even mid-range ones) came with AIOs. I wouldn't have to settle with an overpriced and over-specced 6500 XT just to avoid noise.


I got a 3080 with an AIO built in, which was loud and had no fan control - and then the AIO leaked. And it had shit, and i mean shiiiiiiit VRAM cooling (effectively: none)

I miss my kraken G12, and bigass custom air coolers. the 3080 and 3090 absolutely justify those honkers, and yet they're basically off the market


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## QuietBob (Jun 23, 2022)

I've been using big tower coolers ever since the AthlonXP days. To me this seems the most economical choice. High-end units can easily handle 99% use cases, maybe except overclocked top SKUs under extended all-core load.

I'm not a hardcore oc'er myself, I don't bench competetively, I don't need maximum fps in my games. I have no use for an R9/i9 since I don't run multicore workloads all day. So the advantages of custom water over top-end air cooling are minimal for me. And of course there's the extra cost and maintenance.

I briefly considered AIOs, but the small difference in temperatures - even with unrealistic synthetic loads - doesn't appear to justify the expense. I don't care for the RGB bling either, so the esthetics are of minor importance in my book.

The only drawback of tower coolers (especially dual designs) may be case compatibility and RAM clearance. At least memory issues can be easily remedied by swapping a 120mm fan on the front. Then there's the misconception that efficient air cooling must be noisy. That doesn't have to be the case. All my rigs use a single intake and exhaust fan running at 1300-1500 rpm max - when stress testing - plus a single CPU fan at even lower speed. Only my current Zen3 PC uses a dual CPU fan.

All my systems are barely audible in everyday use and very quiet when gaming. And the temperatures are low


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 23, 2022)

I went with an Alphacool loop for CPU+GPU during lockdown as I needed to squeeze all that I could out of a 3900X for working locally on data instead of being on site to run datasets over 10GbE links to 2P servers.

At the time I had a 2070S with a particularly frustrating cooler and that was the tipping point (coupled with lots of time at home) to build a loop. I still have a 140mm+360mm radiator cooling just my 5800X now which is ridiculous overkill but the Asus TUF 3060Ti I have is whisper quiet and I didn't bother buying a waterblock for it. Depending on how stupid the power draw of Lovelace and RDNA3 cards is, I may well revert to watercooling my GPU again. 

The first thing Nvidia and AMD have to do though, is convince me that there's any point. I already run everything I play at 1440p165 on high or ultra. Games don't look significantly better at 4K because 1440p is already sharp enough to see polygons in the art assets and get the most out of hi-res textures. There's good reason that 1440p is called the gaming sweet spot and performance isn't the only reason that game devs target half-4K checkerboard or dynamic scaling - it's because there comes a point where adding resolution achieves very little visual improvement. I game more on my 4K TV than I do on my 1440p desktop these days and a lot of the time I don't feel that the game looks any better for it.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 23, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I went custom water, because in 40C ambients PC go whirrrrr every summer.
> 
> If i could have got an AIO on the GPU, i'd have settled for that.
> 
> ...


Hi,
I did read heat does compound the effects so 40c jeez open a window your a/c is broken that's hotter daily than in Texas atm


----------



## Shrek (Jun 23, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I went custom water, because in 40C ambients PC go whirrrrr every summer.



'Only mad dogs and Englishmen' (I'm originally from England, so the comment is more aimed at myself than anyone else).

It can also reach 40°C ambient out here but my concern is more for the capacitors than the chips, so I stuck with air cooling and hardened the power supply by replacing the capacitors.


----------



## dgianstefani (Jun 23, 2022)

Boutique custom liquid cooling. Nanite suspension XTR coolant, pure copper loop, Optimus fittings. For maximum performance and longevity in a small form factor.


----------



## de.das.dude (Jun 23, 2022)

240mm AIO.

I had Hyper 212 EVO for years... sadly air coolers are only that good when  your room itself is 30C (or even 35C in summers)
Plus they scream like a banshee.

with my work from home workload (VM i.e. no pressure) and gaming (very impulsive bursts), AIO is a great option for me. 240mm is overkill for my 5600 at stock, so it stays quiet most of the time.

I still have plenty of ventiallation in the case for the GPU which is still air driven.


----------



## P4-630 (Jun 23, 2022)

de.das.dude said:


> sadly air coolers are only that good when your room itself is 30C (or even 35C in summers)
> Plus they scream like a banshee.



Then you never tried the better air coolers, they mostly come with good quiet fans.
Noctua, BeQuiet, Thermalright.


----------



## DR4G00N (Jun 23, 2022)

I've been running a CPU+GPU loop with 360+240x25mm rads and a D5 pump for a long while. No particular reason behind it, just wanted to do a custom loop because it was interesting.
Plus it cools better than any air cooler could since you can just add more rads for more surface area.


----------



## GerKNG (Jun 23, 2022)

Air Cooling.
had one dead AIO and one that leaked, their performance is not that great compared to even a 120mm U12A and they always come with bloatware.

My 12700k (5.0/4.0/4.3 1.33V 230W in R23) runs even a 30 minute loop with 30°C Ambient on the NH U12A.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 23, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Then you never tried the better air coolers, they mostly come with good quiet fans.
> Noctua, BeQuiet, Thermalright.


It’s nice not having to back off of an oc just because the ambient went up a few c. I also have a 212 evo and it is really not good at all.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jun 23, 2022)

360 AIO and 280 AIO I tend to stick with corsair I still have a 110 GT running in a buddies system I bought in 2013 ish going strong..... When I do go air cooling I tend to stick with Noctua U12A/D15. I prefer aio due to the form factor.

I will say Corsair is obnoxious to get a good mount on AM4 the hooks are just stupid and they should come up with a dedicated mount.... Typically takes me 2-3 mounts to get an ideal one. With intel you can do it with your eyes closed and get a perfect mount every time.


----------



## Vario (Jun 23, 2022)

I have an air cooled system because I just want the machine to run reliably and cool without any further hassle.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 23, 2022)

Someone really likes TY-143’s


----------



## Vario (Jun 23, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Someone really likes TY-143’s


They are okay.  I wanted 140mm fan that have a dual ball bearing because I am running them horizontal. These work well horizontally.  The newer ones aren't as good as the old ones, they did some kind of redesign, the motor doesn't run as nice of a speed range.  I have two older TY143 on the heat sink and the rest are the newer TY143 mounted on the case.

To be honest for dual ball bearing high airflow fans with good low idle speed, I think the Yate Loon D14BH12 power supply fan is a better fan. I had a couple I was running for many years and they worked great, so when I bought this case, I bought a bunch more from China and after waiting quite a number of months, they showed up and didn't even turn on. I didn't want to repeat that so I just bought more TY143.

The TY143 shape works well with the O11 Air Mini's 120mm fan mounts, it seems to really fill the intake space well so it worked out.


----------



## neatfeatguy (Jun 23, 2022)

I found that your case can make a bigger difference in your overall temps if you're using air cooling regardless of the number of fans you have installed.

I had a CoolerMaster Cosmos 1000 - loved the look of the case, but the case had piss poor cooling with air even though it was a full tower. I tried multiple air coolers for the CPU and none of them really made any difference. I eventually went with a Corsair H50 AIO and it dropped the CPU temps by a good 4-5C. Air cooling sucked in this tower.

I moved to a Fractal Design Arc XL - much more open and I even went the route of mounting the HDDs in the spare 5.25" bays and completely removing the HDD cages to improve air flow. Having multiple front and bottom intake fans with multiple top and rear exhaust fans, temps were a bit lower than the Cosmos 1000 case, but still higher than the case I'm using now.

I moved to the CM HAF XB Evo for two reasons. 1 - the MB mounts parallel to the ground so the GPU isn't hanging (had horrible GPU sag in my last case) and 2 - with how the MB sits, everything is just exhausting hot air up and not into other components.  GPU temps went down by 4-5 degrees overall and all I was using was  a total of 4 fans on the case. 2 exhaust fans (1 - 120mm on the rear and 1 - 200mm on top) and 2 fans for intake (was for the AIO radiator mounted on the front and they were pushing cool air into the radiator). 

The HAF XB Evo isn't the prettiest case to look at, but then again, I'm not looking at it. The case, however, has better cooling over the other couple of full towers I used to use.


----------



## Vario (Jun 23, 2022)

neatfeatguy said:


> I found that your case can make a bigger difference in your overall temps if you're using air cooling regardless of the number of fans you have installed.
> 
> I had a CoolerMaster Cosmos 1000 - loved the look of the case, but the case had piss poor cooling with air even though it was a full tower. I tried multiple air coolers for the CPU and none of them really made any difference. I eventually went with a Corsair H50 AIO and it dropped the CPU temps by a good 4-5C. Air cooling sucked in this tower.
> 
> ...


I had a Cosmos 1000 as well, the only way I had good temperatures was I bought a 120mm shroud that replaced 3 of the external drive bays and that provided a nice blast of air to the CPU heatsink.

My O11 Air Mini is the best air cooled case I've had, its like a classier HAF, just a lot of mesh.  I am glad companies are moving back to mesh designs.


----------



## ShiBDiB (Jun 23, 2022)

I went AIO on my CPU because it's quieter and to get comparable temps with air I'd have to use some monstrosity like you're running. I think we're nearing the end of air cooled aftermarket coolers imo, they've been at a stage of being obnoxiously large for awhile now and AIO's have come a long way. (With custom loops obviously being the peak option, and stock air coolers being the entry)

GPU is stock, it's quiet enough under load and I don't feel like dealing with a custom loop.


----------



## The red spirit (Jun 23, 2022)

Downdraft Scythe Choten. It's good enough for me and helps with VRM cooling too. Pretty cool concept. Makes me which that downdraft high performance coolers were more common. I used to have Mugen 4 PCGH in my main machine and I can't fault it for performance or acoustics, but it was so huge that installing it was always a pain and blood. It's not exactly sharp as much as those fins are just really thin and tend to cut. I'm done with it, because it tends to cover RAM, VRMs, EPS connector, some motherboard screws and in my previous case (cooler Master Knight K280) it barely fit. It was literally few millimeters away from not fitting. I think Scythe should just make all copper Choten or some low form factor equivalent cooler.


----------



## Tomgang (Jun 23, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> It doesn't make your system faster anyway...
> 
> I rather have a quiet system without RGB fans than other way around.


It´s not so much a problem as i might let it out to be. As i have many fans in the case, that allows me to run the case fans at lower RPM and stil have a good airflow.

Good to read peoples stories and why the choises of cooling. I think as a side thing of this. This can might even help some people to deside what to go after and be inspired by others setup. So image of systems cooling is more than welcome to.

In fact i will post more of my own system here of my curent system and my old X58 that i dit a few exsperiment with about cooling.

First my old X58 system. The zip ties o nthe CPU cooler are there to lift the cpu cooler bit so it dosent hit the fans on the chipsæt else it would made a nasty noise. Well Ghetto mode, but it worked well.


















My current system. There mixed image from now and from when i build it. Hence why there are two different GPU´s, as i dit first manage to get my RTX 3080 later after building my system. But gives a more detailed look of my cooling setup.






















































So there you have it. More details of my cooling setup.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 23, 2022)

Mussels said:


> all my blocks are damaged from vinegar, it totally can scuff them up. Sure you can clean them again, but vinegar totally can mess with the finish.


Hi,
You're no stranger to posting images so lets see what you call damaged 
Pits could also be thermal grizzly damage


----------



## Shrek (Jun 23, 2022)

Are people using vinegar as a bactericide?


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 23, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Are people using vinegar as a bactericide?


Hi,
I've never personally used it for anything not even salad  

But most I've read have used a little bit mixed with distilled water to clean radiators.


----------



## xu^ (Jun 23, 2022)

Deepcool AS500 + with 6 x ST120 lian li fans

Dont trust water cooling and much less to go wrong with a fan.


----------



## ZenZimZaliben (Jun 23, 2022)

Shrek said:


> Are people using vinegar as a bactericide?


Yes, and it only takes like 3-5 drops for 32floz.


----------



## claes (Jun 23, 2022)

I used to mess around with car radiators and aquarium pumps, then had a custom loop for awhile, but I’ve settled on air cooling. For awhile I had two AIOs modded on to a 470 SLI setup, and later had a MK-26, but these days it’s just a D15 and the biggest aftermarket heatsinks I can find.

Mostly I’m posting now because I feel like a lot of these airflow builds posted here seem poorly optimized? For example, @Tomgang, couldn’t you get better temps by flipping the side panel exhausts to intake and removing the top-front exhaust? It seems like maybe you’re pulling all the cool air provided by your intakes out before it hits your components.

I only say this because of all of the comments about air being noisy. This is probably true with i9s and the like, but is often more a problem of what @doyll refers to as “air-blow vs air-flow.” Just my two cents, FWIW.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 23, 2022)

Man.. my cooling setup is pretty weak compared to some of you guys..





That lens flare though 

And that rear fan is getting removed.. just gets in the way


----------



## Athlonite (Jun 23, 2022)

Just Air for me via a Cryorig R1 Universal and Air on the Sapphire Nitro+ RX6800 aswell all supplied by 3 x 180mm AP181 fans in the RV02 case and here if the room temp gets a bit warm in summer I just turn on the AC


----------



## jallenlabs (Jun 24, 2022)

I went all air cooling for my two latest rigs.  For my main workstation, it was for reliability sake.  All Noctua cooling in both.  Chromax versions.  I really like all of it, high quality stuff.  I post a couple pics later.


----------



## de.das.dude (Jun 24, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Then you never tried the better air coolers, they mostly come with good quiet fans.
> Noctua, BeQuiet, Thermalright.



forgot to mention, its real dusty here as well. so cleaning the air coolers every few months was a pain. i can just take the front panel off and vaccum the rad.

and the noctua good cooler n15 one costs more here than what i paid for my antec 240mm rad with some really good fans and rgb led controller.

plus air just doesnt have the thermal mass to keep idles low when ambient can reach 40C.

by ambient i mean the literal room temp becomes 40C


----------



## Ralfi (Jun 24, 2022)

This time last year, I think I completed my 1st build in 10 years. I loved how today's setups looked so clean, & also ran so quiet with the emergence of M.2 storage, so I aimed to make my build simple, yet mildly powerful to handle most games at High settings at 1440p/100fps+.

I went air cooling as I knew I wasn't going to be running the latest games & was only going to use the factory AMD CPU overclock (5600x @ 4.6Ghz).

Put a lot of thought into the case & case fans - wanted a good all round cooling/noise/RGB build & Corsair/Arctic seemed like a good combo…


----------



## Hofnaerrchen (Jun 24, 2022)

Air... after building PCs for more than 30 years now I grew tired of maintaining my components on a regular basis and I never was a friend of liquids close to electrical circuits. Apart from that I have no need for components that would require liquid cooling to be either quiet or reach their max. performance. Especially now with energy prices exploding I doubt energy hungry components have a future at all.


----------



## xtreemchaos (Jun 24, 2022)

i only use distilled water in my riggs, i change the water once a year to stop metal particle build up just to be safe but i dare say i could go 2 years if needed. ive been doing loops for a long time for myself and customers and have never had a leak "touch wood" to tell the truth id have to mess up real bad with my tubes for double O rings fittings to spout a leak.
here my riggs one for work and one for play   . but i like Air cooled riggs just as much and good cooling is =.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 24, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I did read heat does compound the effects so 40c jeez open a window your a/c is broken that's hotter daily than in Texas atm


Summer here is just... not good for existing. Went to the beach, 45C, 100KM/h winds, thunderstorm blowing in which of course felt great - was like being in front of an open oven door.
And the lightning started the bushfires i had to drive through to get home so... yeaaaaaah.

Aussie + high wattage system = learn to undervolt.


----------



## Vario (Jun 24, 2022)

claes said:


> I used to mess around with car radiators and aquarium pumps, then had a custom loop for awhile, but I’ve settled on air cooling. For awhile I had two AIOs modded on to a 470 SLI setup, and later had a MK-26, but these days it’s just a D15 and the biggest aftermarket heatsinks I can find.
> 
> Mostly I’m posting now because I feel like a lot of these airflow builds posted here seem poorly optimized? For example, @Tomgang, couldn’t you get better temps by flipping the side panel exhausts to intake and removing the top-front exhaust? It seems like maybe you’re pulling all the cool air provided by your intakes out before it hits your components.
> 
> I only say this because of all of the comments about air being noisy. This is probably true with i9s and the like, but is often more a problem of what @doyll refers to as “air-blow vs air-flow.” Just my two cents, FWIW.


I probably have a lot of airblow in my setup, some of it was done for a balanced aesthetic of fans filling up case space.  The most worthless fans are the gray 120mm side intakes, I only put them on to extract heat from the rear chamber where the power supply is, otherwise I'd have left them off. Ideally I'd also block the roof area between the front panel and the frontmost top fan to make sure that air pressure moves towards the back of the case rather than exiting out the roof before it even reaches the ram.  The other worthless fan is the front-most bottom intake fan.  Everything works fine temperature and sound-wise, so I haven't messed with it.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 24, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Summer here is just... not good for existing. Went to the beach, 45C, 100KM/h winds, thunderstorm blowing in which of course felt great - was like being in front of an open oven door.
> And the lightning started the bushfires i had to drive through to get home so... yeaaaaaah.
> 
> Aussie + high wattage system = learn to undervolt.


And I keep telling myself down under would be better to live in than Canada.. all because of a seed my grade 7 teacher planted lol..

Edit:

He left Canada to teach in Aussieland, and he was a very good story teller.. I doubt he is still around, but he left a lasting impression on me.


----------



## ThrashZone (Jun 24, 2022)

freeagent said:


> And I keep telling myself down under would be better to live in than Canada.. all because of a seed my grade 7 teacher planted lol..
> 
> Edit:
> 
> He left Canada to teach in Aussieland, and he was a very good story teller.. I doubt he is still around, but he left a lasting impression on me.


Hi,
Long ago it might of been
Now, not so much if you've taken note to some of the wild policies they've enacted in the last couple years :zip:

But clearly no air conditioning is being used which is in it's self whack 

On topic though
Both water loops were a x2 thing when I had more money than sense I spoke of 
.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 24, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Long ago it might of been
> Now, not so much if you've taken note to some of the wild policies they've enacted in the last couple years :zip:
> 
> ...


Unfortunately I have to watch my news on YouTube because our news doesn't really show what is going on in the world.. I did notice what was going on there too. Right now Canada is a sad place. Almost a shadow of our former self.

Edit 

sorry for the OT


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 27, 2022)

Hi,
A recent question brought up a good point about pump noise so bumping the thread

People get to lazy and use to many 90 degree fittings instead of 45's or even straight barbs with soft tubing or even hard tubing take the easy out and 90 everything to avoid bending tubing
Personally I don't mind the octopus look and even if I used hard tubing I would bend the tube instead of over use of 90's but some people not so much and like straight lines/... and the pump curses them so they have to slow it down to limit pump noise

Yes often optimizing/ slowing down pump speed will allow a little better cooling seeing the fluid travels slower through radiators but this is just day to day use not max overclocking where full blast fans and pump speed will show better results
Max overclocking is not a quiet sport by the way 

I run my pwm pumps 100% by not connecting them to the board
I do not hear them at all and I use two in both builds couple foot away from me.

I do love D5 pumps but restriction does make them noisy.


----------



## witkazy (Aug 27, 2022)

Mostly to make a point that even stock cooler is enough when there is loads of air provided wherever it is needed.Those are 120mm fans ,bottom is push top is push -pull and 200mm fan on top of a case cos it is good to suck hot air out of a way. Cheers.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Aug 27, 2022)

What's a cooling thread without something a little on the cold side?

Chose this method because ambitious.... lol.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 27, 2022)

Hi,
I was wondering where mr. freeze was


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Aug 27, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I was wondering where mr. freeze was


That was last night actually. But probably more than an hour in.

This picture is 15 minutes, you can see there's a lot less snow.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 27, 2022)

Hi,
Where's that cpu-z validation link


----------



## r9 (Aug 27, 2022)

Water cooling better but imo not worth it compared to air.
I think there is more benefit to be had on the GPU and when you add that money to the setup makes it even worse.
If I build a PC at this moment this is what I would go for



How I picked it was looked at TPU price/perf and the perf chart. Picked air cooler that is so efficient that goes into water cooling territory and at the same time has great price/perf.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Aug 27, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Where's that cpu-z validation link


I can't give benchmark details-
But was benching around -25c

Hardware-
Socket 939 cpu
DFI Lanpart SLI-DR
Corsair XMS expert ( the rare stuff )
ATI Radeon X600 with bios mod 450mhz.
Antec continuous power series 1000w of powa!


----------



## P4-630 (Aug 27, 2022)

i7 12700K with Noctua NH-U12A, 26 degrees ambient.
Max highest core temp of 76 degrees while running Cinebench R23.
I have seen worse on the internet.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 27, 2022)

Custom Water.

It's a massive pain in the ass at times, building and six month clean outs.
But, and with experience, it's the best current method of running at high performance levels, for long periods at the lowest volume output, and that's it really.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 27, 2022)

r9 said:


> Water cooling better but imo not worth it compared to air.
> I think there is more benefit to be had on the GPU and when you add that money to the setup makes it even worse.
> If I build a PC at this moment this is what I would go for
> View attachment 259564
> How I picked it was looked at TPU price/perf and the perf chart. Picked air cooler that is so efficient that goes into water cooling territory and at the same time has great price/perf.


Hi,
What did they change on rev B to make it cheaper ?


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Aug 27, 2022)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> Custom Water.
> 
> It's a massive pain in the ass at times, building and six month clean outs.
> But, and with experience, it's the best current method of running at high performance levels, for long periods at the lowest volume output, and that's it really.


Gotta agree. 
But always buy into a good waterblock.


----------



## P4-630 (Aug 27, 2022)

I went air cooling, 76 degrees max for a i7 12700K during summer isn't bad, no need for other CPU cooling options.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 27, 2022)

ShrimpBrime -retired said:


> I can't give benchmark details-
> But was benching around -25c
> 
> Hardware-
> ...


Hi,
Teaser


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Aug 27, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Teaser


Competition stuff friend. Don't wanna give competitors any hints cause they gonna try to beat my scores!!


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 27, 2022)

ShrimpBrime -retired said:


> Gotta agree.
> But always buy into a good waterblock.


Hi,
Being from Chicago guessing you know all about optimus goodies 
Optimus Advanced Water Cooling


----------



## dgianstefani (Aug 27, 2022)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> Custom Water.
> 
> It's a massive pain in the ass at times, building and six month clean outs.
> But, and with experience, it's the best current method of running at high performance levels, for long periods at the lowest volume output, and that's it really.


U can forget about the 6 month clean outs with a coolant upgrade.

I mean, I'll vacuum out and use high pressure air jets to clean the radiators and filters, but that's it. And you do that with air anyway.


----------



## r9 (Aug 27, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> What did they change on rev B to make it cheaper ?


Think it's the fans.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 27, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> U can forget about the 6 month clean outs with a coolant upgrade.
> 
> I mean, I'll vacuum out and use high pressure air jets to clean the radiators and filters, but that's it. And you do that with air anyway.


Yeah but my case limits the effectiveness of air blasts but with a simpler setup I agree.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 27, 2022)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> Yeah but my case limits the effectiveness of air blasts but with a simpler setup I agree.


Hi,
Here's his post about fluids good advice 


dgianstefani said:


> Try mayhems XTR, never needs changing, maybe run it through a paper coffee filter after the first year to remove any gunk from the rest of the loop. Two years now and still good as new for me.


----------



## Lei (Aug 27, 2022)

Tomgang said:


> I have been thinking about the pro's and cons about air vs. Aio vs. Custom water cooling vs. Face cooling. I don't think I will take dry ice or ln2 in this thread as that is extreme cooling and not very usable for every day use.


What's face cooling? Is that phase cooling



Tomgang said:


> I use aircooled and have all ways used it. I use it do to price that's cheaper than custom loops and a big aircooler is ...



I disagree. With air you eventually throttle. Even if you don't OC with water, 5% of your total cpu+gpu price costs the same as watercooling.



ZenZimZaliben said:


> Probably 15 years ago I went with an external water-cooling solution and have never went back. Radiators, pump, reservoir with quick disconnect hoses in an external case....



Yep, most of my stuff are out of chassis. Rad, pump, res....



ZenZimZaliben said:


> Also it wasn't that expensive. Don't buy "water-cooling" hoses. Just go to homedepot and get it for like .33 a foot. Don't use "Water-cooling" fittings go to a hardware store. My reservior is custom made from PVC pipe, it's inside a box why do I care how it looks? Don't buy "water-cooling" additives. Use Distilled water with a little distilled vinegar. And finally make sure you are not mixing metals. Always get nickel plated or copper blocks.



Yep, that's the hose I use. And my reservoir is this:







ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Never seen any copper or brass damaged by vinegar personally
> No need to beg man just post up some source showing damage you claim will do.


Copper gets real clean with vinegar. Not sure if it's damage, but it suddenly turns rosy again.



68Olds said:


> .Good water components can be an investment that can last you many years through many builds.


Except gpu block which u have to change it with every model.



kapone32 said:


> That is an interesting concept.


Exactly.


----------



## Tomgang (Aug 27, 2022)

Lei said:


> What's face cooling? Is that phase cooling
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes i mean phase cooling. It was a typo.

A cpu dosent throttle on aircooling, unless the aircooler is insuficient for the task or cpu to cool. Yes a cpu does variate with core clock depending in temp. But that has not much to do with air cooling in my opinion, but more like how the manufactor wants the cpu operate. Litterly throttle to me is when the CPU throttle down to do critical temp or power limits. AMD zen 3 cpu boost parameters funktions much like that of a GPU. I no problems cooling 5950X with the cpu cooler i use. Stock all core load it keeps temp below 60 C and single peak at 73C while with PBO single temp is the same and multi raise to 76C. First with a manuel all core oc to 4.65 and 1.375 volts the cpu hits above 80 C. more precisly 86 C and close to the thermal throttle point of 90 C.

I will keep my CPU´s aircooled for sure.


----------



## Morgoth (Aug 27, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Long ago it might of been
> Now, not so much if you've taken note to some of the wild policies they've enacted in the last couple years :zip:
> 
> ...


my system used to look like that to back in 2010 XD


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 27, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Here's his post about fluids good advice


I use EK cryo fluid , no change ever.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Aug 27, 2022)

Fresh delids. 

Opteron 148 top
XBox 360 (I can't remember the core code name)


----------



## shovenose (Aug 27, 2022)

Always been a big fan of air cooling. No pun intended.

there are definitely cases where liquid cooling is worth it but they are rare.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 27, 2022)

shovenose said:


> Always been a big fan of air cooling. No pun intended.
> 
> there are definitely cases where liquid cooling is worth it but they are rare.


I agree relative to typical consumer use.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Aug 27, 2022)

shovenose said:


> Always been a big fan of air cooling. No pun intended.
> 
> there are definitely cases where liquid cooling is worth it but they are rare.


Really a water loop is also air cooling. The water just caries your thermals to another location for dissipation at the rads.... where the air cooling takes place.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 27, 2022)

Lei said:


> I disagree. With air you eventually throttle.



My results with an air cooler have been better than many using an AIO on the same CPU..


----------



## dgianstefani (Aug 27, 2022)

freeagent said:


> My results with an air cooler have been better than many using an AIO on the same CPU..


AIOs are crap in general. They're at best, a compromise, and at worst a disaster waiting to happen.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Aug 27, 2022)

Ah there we go. Better temps already!


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 27, 2022)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> I use EK cryo fluid , no change ever.


I find this interesting.  I've read a varying degree of opinions on this.  I think it has a lot to do with particular setups so I would like to understand more how your system works without changing out the liquid.
I thought you needed to change the liquid every few years at least due to the eventual ionization of the liquid that may increase the chance of corrosion.  (despite the anti-corrosives in the liquid)
For example if you want to keep nickel plated blocks looking nickel.
Is this not correct?


----------



## Lei (Aug 27, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> I've never personally used it for anything not even salad
> 
> But most I've read have used a little bit mixed with distilled water to clean radiators.


Then you are really missing Caesar salad.



ShrimpBrime -retired said:


> Really a water loop is also air cooling. The water just caries your thermals to another location for dissipation at the rads.... where the air cooling takes place.


There's air blowing on many other planets, but they're either too cold or hot. What keeps your body and earth at stable temps is large amounts of water. Amazing internal heat capacity.


de.das.dude said:


> By ambient i mean the literal room temp becomes 40C


You might become the first person to leak himself on his pc 



Mussels said:


> Summer here is just... not good for existing. Went to the beach, 45C, 100KM/h winds, thunderstorm blowing in which of course felt great - was like being in front of an open oven door.
> And the lightning started the bushfires i had to drive through to get home so... yeaaaaaah.
> 
> Aussie + high wattage system = learn to undervolt.


I love Aloha t-shirts. They camouflage any sweat stains. 
And the Old Spice deodorant with Trevor Philips ads










That's the GTV5 guy.


----------



## JrRacinFan (Aug 27, 2022)

Watercooling here for me. I did it to keep things quiet while still keeping the temps reasonable.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 27, 2022)

ShrimpBrime -retired said:


> Ah there we go. Better temps already!
> 
> View attachment 259578



As summer draws to a close..

I took advantage of some cooler temps the other morning, had the winderz open and the front fans on max, and 1.55v on the sticks I believe


----------



## JrRacinFan (Aug 27, 2022)

@freeagent hey there bud. Nice clocks there!


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Aug 27, 2022)

freeagent said:


> As summer draws to a close..
> 
> I took advantage of some cooler temps the other morning, had the winderz open and the front fans on max, and 1.55v on the sticks I believe


Tough actin tenactin in action right there!!!

Bench live with you guys right now. 

I had to convert the mp4 to gif cause forum stuff I guess.


----------



## cvaldes (Aug 27, 2022)

All cooling solutions (passive, air, AIO, custom liquid, more exotic methods) are compromises. It's just like any choice you have (and not just PC cooling).

In this instance: thermal performance, acoustics, maintenance overhead, risk tolerance, computational performance and of course cost. And yes, also aesthetics for some.

It's also worth noting that today's AIOs are far more reliable than the ones from 10-15 years ago. If they were still really bad, there would be people reciting horror stories of tubes bursting, ruined PCs, etc. on a daily basis at Reddit, here, elsewhere. But no.

For sure, water as a coolant has more thermal capacity than air. That's physics, not opinion. Ever splash water on your face on a hot day? Same physics.

It's important to note that one can mix cooling solutions in the same build and choose different solutions for another build. Just because I prefer a custom cooling loop on a high-wattage GPU like my 3080Ti and 2070 Super doesn't mean I necessarily want it for an RTX 3050 or RX 550.

I currently have four builds running, all of them using liquid is some format. One build (my primary gaming PC described in System Specs) is a full custom cooling loop for both the CPU and GPU. The other three have AIOs on the CPU, one with a custom cooling loop for the GPU, the other two have the stock air coolers for the graphics cards.

One thing I do notice with AIOs and custom liquid is that I can delay the fan response time and still get great thermals. I do this because my ears are sensitive to fan speed changes. This is something that doesn't show up in test results in hardware reviews. Reviewers only record sustained noise levels from peak loads via a benchmark which is not my usage case. My typical everyday usage makes CPU and GPU temperatures bounce up and down.

If I can cut the number of fan speed changes by 50% by using a water-based cooling solution versus air, that's a win for me because it's a far better experience from a total ownership perspective. Again, that's directly related to water's superior thermal capacity. I am willing to pay more for better acoustics.

For my daily driver PC (using an RTX 3050 with the stock cooler), I set the GPU fan curve to always have the fans at a minimal speed. That's because going from 0 rpm to 800 rpm is an audible annoyance.

In my primary gaming PC, the waterblocked graphics card is vertically mounted and an air cooler cannot fit on the CPU.

Another noteworthy detail: using AIOs on CPU sockets provides easy physical access to the adjacent m.2 slot. More than any other component in my PCs, I move the boot m.2 SSDs around. I can reach these without disassembling anything. This is the main reason I have stopped using CPU air coolers in my builds.

I still keep a couple of air coolers around when I have a motherboard I'm testing on a table, but I won't use them in a case anymore.


----------



## Chicken Patty (Aug 27, 2022)

I've used air, AIO, and custom water over the years and atleast for me since I'm in Miami and it's never really "cold" here my cooling comes down more to ambient temperatures.  With a good air cooler, I get just as good Temps as any water setup I've had.  However, my latest build has a NZXT AIO and where this does beat air cooling is in noise.  I set my pump and fans to silent thru the NZXT CAM software and voila, hear next to nothing. 

I now decided to go custom water with a distro plate simply because I wanted to do something unique I had never done before, and different than your traditional water cooling. Of course many have done this, but to me it's new. 

So yeah, honestly as far as performance for me it's been the same for all methods. Just comes down to cost/looks to me.  This can be different for others, for me personally I don't consider noise as it doesn't bother me.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 27, 2022)

Lei said:


> Then you are really missing Caesar salad.


Hi,
Being in Texas I'm a ranch dressing man put it on everything  

Yeah I'm on all air on one build it was on water though but this is easier to move fast


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 28, 2022)

Tomgang said:


> First my old X58 system. The zip ties o nthe CPU cooler are there to lift the cpu cooler bit so it dosent hit the fans on the chipsæt else it would made a nasty noise. Well Ghetto mode, but it worked well.


I still have that same Antec case in use today.  It was an airflow beast for it's time and nice features with the user controlled fan speeds and cleanable dust filters and of course the side panel fan.


----------



## robot zombie (Aug 28, 2022)

Right now, I just run a decently spacious case (psu shroud and odd intake layout aside,) with a big tower cooler and a triple-fan midrange card. Simple. Three 140mm intakes on the front, one exhaust on the back. The top of this case is also an exhaust. It has 3 additional fan slots. I figure I have what I need for decent positive pressure. A 3900x gets a lot done and doesn't really consume much on average. It can be a sub-100w CPU. The 3060ti does around 200w. So it's like my ASUS 2060, which could use 180w to do far less. I'm getting my use out of this updated corsair RM650x. Cables are a bitch, but it's a good, quiet unit. 

Everything I have is decently quiet, I leave that breathing room and carefully tune my curves and heuristics. This EVGA card might have issues one day and at stock wasn't the quietest. It has auto-stop for its 'efficiency' mode. But the bearings on the fans are those that hate full spiderman orientation and growl a little every time they start. At idle, it teeters around the threshold. So they'll just begin to spin up, stop for a random little moment in time, and try to start again, over and over. I run a more traditional low-rpm idle instead and it ends up being a pretty quiet card. I don't mind the triple fan 1.5-2 slot cards for that reason. My strix 2060 was a hulking beast of a card, just so overbuilt. But because of that it was super-quiet and it would pass 2000-mhz all on its own. I like when things can work out like that on air.

I do generally prefer air. It's just so much simpler and more reliable for parts that run down at middling power levels. Less expensive, too. Clean the dust every now and then - check your filters (use filters.) I don't like to always be tinkering with my gear. After the whole discovery period where I'm feeling out the balance and learning where the performance capabilities are, I kind of see the constant tweaking as a mark of dissatisfaction. Not that it's necessarily true for you, just my conclusion when I look at myself. I discipline myself a little to put serious focus on working it up to an optimal performance niche for my needs so that from that point on, it can just work for me and I can put my full focus on what I'm actually using the system for. I enjoy playing with PC rigs and new parts, too. But I can just seek out the odd commission build for that fix. My main system is why I bother to gain the knowledge in the first place. There's a goal with a start and end point.

It just has to be like that for me. ADHD makes one want to deviate from projects like these at some point, you get pulled in different directions. A system in continual need of refinement and adjustments is a major monkey on my back. It's easier to get to that crystallization point with air.


However, my next build is gonna be a very compact build. Maybe still ATX, but very small. Like, as small as possible, on the SFX PSU standard. I like the Cerberus X a lot. It's a rewarding challenge. Looks well built, giving you quite a lot to work with while being impressively small for something that accommodates a full ATX mobo. It's barely wider than the mobo itself. You could still put it on air, but obviously there isn't going to be much space in it for a good flow pattern.



 



It has other PSU options, and things like an optional hinged front rack to add mounting spots. Still gonna be a challenge in terms of rad space. It could concievably house at least two 240mm rads as long as they're under 30mm thick. Or something a like a 280 and a dual 92mm rad - slap some noccies on it for extra bottom rad volume to back up a 280 on the front. The way the mounting areas are punched allows for that kind of stuff, which is handy, because being limited to only convetional component forms would make laying out a full loop and leaving mounting space for a 2.5" drive or two much more difficult - I will have to be pretty careful with part selection to make everything work out. I'm honestly not sure what I would do with a case like this, yet. But that's part of the appeal with this side of building and configuring cooling setups.

With current platforms allowing for 2 nvme drives, I can deal with doing just that for system/games and then tacking on a fatter sata ssd for general storage. I came into a dual-chip 10-core xeon dell server, which is going to get packed with drives for both shared network storage and backup. So I can leave pretty much all of my available mounting space for cooling. But in a case this compact, I think I would rather go full custom liquid. It would be an interesting challenge for me, and will likely be the better way to get decent cooling for more power-hungry components.


----------



## dgianstefani (Aug 28, 2022)

robot zombie said:


> Right now, I just run a decently spacious case (psu shroud and odd intake layout aside,) with a big tower cooler and a triple-fan midrange card. Simple. Three 140mm intakes on the front, one exhaust on the back. The top of this case is also an exhaust. It has 3 additional fan slots. I figure I have what I need for decent positive pressure. A 3900x gets a lot done and doesn't really consume much on average. It can be a sub-100w CPU. The 3060ti does around 200w. So it's like my ASUS 2060, which could use 180w to do far less. I'm getting my use out of this updated corsair RM650x. Cables are a bitch, but it's a good, quiet unit.
> 
> Everything I have is decently quiet, I leave that breathing room and carefully tune my curves and heuristics. This EVGA card might have issues one day and at stock wasn't the quietest. It has auto-stop for its 'efficiency' mode. But the bearings on the fans are those that hate full spiderman orientation and growl a little every time they start. At idle, it teeters around the threshold. So they'll just begin to spin up, stop for a random little moment in time, and try to start again, over and over. I run a more traditional low-rpm idle instead and it ends up being a pretty quiet card. I don't mind the triple fan 1.5-2 slot cards for that reason. My strix 2060 was a hulking beast of a card, just so overbuilt. But because of that it was super-quiet and it would pass 2000-mhz all on its own. I like when things can work out like that on air.
> 
> ...


I recommend the sm580, like my case but 280mm rad support. 

Theoretically you could have 2x 240mm in my sm570 case but I've found one thick rad is enough. 

Cerberus makes size compromises to accommodate atx psu etc, not needed.

If you do go sliger I recommend custom cables from p slate customs. They do exact lengths premeasured for sliger cases. I have gpu 12pin, cpu, mobo and power cable from them. Silver unsleeved is sexy.


----------



## robot zombie (Aug 28, 2022)

Hey, thanks for the suggestions! Nice to hear from someone with some experience with Sliger. It's true, I don't need the ATX PSU compatibility. That sm580 looks sick, too. This is planned for spring next year, so there's still a lot of time for me to look at my options. Custom cables are definitely a given though!


----------



## Nuckles56 (Aug 28, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Summer here is just... not good for existing. Went to the beach, 45C, 100KM/h winds, thunderstorm blowing in which of course felt great - was like being in front of an open oven door.
> And the lightning started the bushfires i had to drive through to get home so... yeaaaaaah.
> 
> Aussie + high wattage system = learn to undervolt.


I spent some time out in Mildura in the middle of summer and we got a few 47C days which were windy and it was definitely an oven door breeze those days. They can keep it. 

I was likely in the middle of one of the fires you're referring to.


----------



## Razrback16 (Aug 28, 2022)

I run a custom water cooling system in my rig. Two loops sharing one larger reservoir. One loop is for the CPU and the other is for the GPU(s). 
Reason is two-fold - 1.) Quiet. If I'm not gaming I dial my radiator fans down to the point that they are virtually silent. 2.) The obvious - better temperatures for overclocking and hardware longevity.


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 28, 2022)

Tomgang said:


> I have been thinking about the pro's and cons about air vs. Aio vs. Custom water cooling vs. Face cooling. I don't think I will take dry ice or ln2 in this thread as that is extreme cooling and not very usable for every day use.
> 
> So to simply sum it up. This thread is to discuss what cooling you have and why you choose that.



I had gotten a Corsair H100i when it was the new thing to try it with the 3800x when it came out.  I still have it and quite frankly it worked well but I didn't like the disposable nature of it and preferred something I could maintain.

Later I had gotten a $280 rx5700 on newegg special (reference card with blower) where the blower cooler was getting pretty loud and annoying after gaming and watching GamersNexus and Jay's 2 cents watercooling videos somewhere between a few months to a year.  I decided to give it a try and got an 011D Lian Li case when EK's GPU water blocks went on sale for like 50% off since the rx5700 models were no longer the hot potato everyone wanted. Later again they had a sale on monoblocks where one just happened to be available for my motherboard again for a heavy price reduction - woohoo not breaking the bank.  So I ended up with a D5 pump/res combo and CoolStream PE 360 and a really quiet/silent system.  I could keep my fans on low, never heard the pump, and always just let the system run a bit warm no problem 24/7 for about 2 years.  Just the single PE 360 was all that was needed to satisfy rx5700 and 3800x and I wasn't doing any kind of crazy overclocking just some work and gaming.  Even after upgrading to 3950x/5950x temps are just fine for what I do.  I didn't need the more elaborate 3 rad setup that you see everyone building so money saved and complexity avoided there. 

After a tax refund I decided to try an EK 011D distroplate (unfortunately not on sale) made for my case with some mixed results and increased noise from the pump.  First DHS delivered the distroplate to some stranger in east jahunga and took a picture and called it delivered.  After some time EK was nice enough to send me another one free of charge after DHS didn't bother to try to retrieve the original package.  

After the pandemic hit and I was forced to work from home the noise reduction really paid for itself especially for many remote meetings and I ended up moving my gaming to a new air cooled pc that is also my emergency backup.   

Pros:  You can run a really cool and quiet system with the right setup.  You can even let it run a bit warm to maintain the quietness of low rpm fans while heating your room in the winter.
Cons:  Even when stuff is on sale it's still quite expensive overall compared a single good air cooler
Note:  Get a good case with good airflow for the things you are not water cooling
Tips:  Pressure test your loop and you will be more comfortable that you wont spring a leak
Gripes:  Murphy's Law


----------



## AM4isGOD (Aug 28, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> I had gotten a Corsair H100i when it was the new thing to try it with the 3800x when it came out.  I still have it and quite frankly it worked well but I didn't like the disposable nature of it and preferred something I could maintain.
> 
> Later I had gotten a $280 rx5700 on newegg special (reference card with blower) where the blower cooler was getting pretty loud and annoying after gaming and watching GamersNexus and Jay's 2 cents watercooling videos somewhere between a few months to a year.  I decided to give it a try and got an 011D Lian Li case when EK's GPU water blocks went on sale for like 50% off since the rx5700 models were no longer the hot potato everyone wanted. Later again they had a sale on monoblocks where one just happened to be available for my motherboard again for a heavy price reduction - woohoo not breaking the bank.  So I ended up with a D5 pump/res combo and CoolStream PE 360 and a really quiet/silent system.  I could keep my fans on low, never heard the pump, and always just let the system run a bit warm no problem 24/7 for about 2 years.  Just the single PE 360 was all that was needed to satisfy rx5700 and 3800x and I wasn't doing any kind of crazy overclocking just some work and gaming.  Even after upgrading to 3950x/5950x temps are just fine for what I do.  I didn't need the more elaborate 3 rad setup that you see everyone building so money saved and complexity avoided there.
> 
> ...



I have a PE and a XE in my li li D XL, they work out pretty well, just need better fans really specially for the XE


----------



## Pouhon (Aug 28, 2022)

I only used air cooling because i never needed more cooling performance. Even if i need more i can go dual tower first for CPU. Currently using Reeven Hans, an average single tower cooler with Arctic P12 fan. It can handle 5600X running p95 SFFT with PBO (no limits) + CO.


----------



## AusWolf (Aug 28, 2022)

r9 said:


> Water cooling better but imo not worth it compared to air.
> I think there is more benefit to be had on the GPU and when you add that money to the setup makes it even worse.
> If I build a PC at this moment this is what I would go for
> View attachment 259564
> How I picked it was looked at TPU price/perf and the perf chart. Picked air cooler that is so efficient that goes into water cooling territory and at the same time has great price/perf.


Nice - though it's heavy as F, and you need a big chassis with lots of air space inside of it, so water it is for me.


----------



## dgianstefani (Aug 28, 2022)

^ Old photo with previous ram kit and a beer bottle for scale.




Current photo in non cable managed, post cleaning state, the empty fan headers are from the side panel ram fans, panels are obviously currently not fitted. Ignore the crappy USB it's just for BIOS flashing, and the multitool is for beer. Thing I love about sliger cases is how perfect they are for flow through chimney designs. Pretty much all I'm going to do with this setup from now is maybe make a custom distro for the front panel (which I removed) and fit the watercooling stuff pump/res etc to that for cleanliness.


----------



## AusWolf (Aug 28, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> View attachment 259718
> ^ Old photo with previous ram kit and a beer bottle for scale.
> 
> View attachment 259719
> Current photo in non cable managed, post cleaning state, the empty fan headers are from the side panel ram fans, panels are obviously currently not fitted. Ignore the crappy USB it's just for BIOS flashing, and the multitool is for beer. Thing I love about sliger cases is how perfect they are for flow through chimney designs. Pretty much all I'm going to do with this setup from now is maybe make a custom distro for the front panel (which I removed) and fit the watercooling stuff pump/res etc to that for cleanliness.


I thought the beer bottle was part of your cooling setup - which makes perfect sense. Even we, people need to be cooled on hot summer days.


----------



## dgianstefani (Aug 28, 2022)

AusWolf said:


> I thought the beer bottle was part of your cooling setup - which makes perfect sense. Even we, people need to be cooled on hot summer days.


Question is did you notice the liquid metal/thermal paste residue from fingers in the top right side of the frame?  Fingers get hot too you know.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 28, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> View attachment 259718
> ^ Old photo with previous ram kit and a beer bottle for scale.
> 
> View attachment 259719
> Current photo in non cable managed, post cleaning state, the empty fan headers are from the side panel ram fans, panels are obviously currently not fitted. Ignore the crappy USB it's just for BIOS flashing, and the multitool is for beer. Thing I love about sliger cases is how perfect they are for flow through chimney designs. Pretty much all I'm going to do with this setup from now is maybe make a custom distro for the front panel (which I removed) and fit the watercooling stuff pump/res etc to that for cleanliness.


Hi,
Yep that's thinking outside the box alright 
Once you do that might as well put the top rad out there too even mid towers get small fast


----------



## dgianstefani (Aug 28, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yep that's thinking outside the box alright
> Once you do that might as well put the top rad out there too even mid towers get small fast


Nah, if I wanted more rad space I just put slightly bigger feet on the case, mount fans on one side of grill and second rad on the other at the bottom.

Small is good, better static pressure, easier to maintain fast airflow, CPU and GPU both liquid cooled so don't need space or fresh air for air heatsinks. Just put rad wherever they get cool air.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 28, 2022)

Hi,
Think @tabascosauz is one of the masters of small builds


----------



## dgianstefani (Aug 28, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Think @tabascosauz is one of the masters of small builds


Yeah i'm jealous of his Strix Impact, few years ago they changed the impact form factor from mini to micro ATX, so the best mini ITX board is what I have or the Aorus.


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 28, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yep that's thinking outside the box alright
> Once you do that might as well put the top rad out there too even mid towers get small fast


What kind of quick disconnects are those?


----------



## Dirt Chip (Aug 28, 2022)

Only air, water is way too loud for me.
I'm going for a silent build with define 7 solid black.
Will add and replace the stock 14mm fan with the upcoming, yet to be released, Noctua 14mm fans (4 of them). If anyone has suggestions on the fan setup I will gladly hear 

The U12-A will take care of the CPU (undecided yet).


----------



## dgianstefani (Aug 28, 2022)

Dirt Chip said:


> Only air, water is way too loud for me.
> I'm going for a silent build with define 7 solid black.
> Will add and replace the stock 14mm fan with the upcoming, yet to be released, Noctua 14mm fans (4 of them). If anyone has suggestions on the fan setup I will gladly hear
> 
> The U12-A will take care of the CPU (undecided yet).


If water is too loud, you're doing it wrong. 

Both can be very quiet, but water can continue being very quiet at much higher thermal loads.


----------



## AM4isGOD (Aug 28, 2022)

Dirt Chip said:


> Only air, water is way too loud for me.
> I'm going for a silent build with define 7 solid black.
> Will add and replace the stock 14mm fan with the upcoming, yet to be released, Noctua 14mm fans (4 of them). If anyone has suggestions on the fan setup I will gladly hear
> 
> The U12-A will take care of the CPU (undecided yet).



Water is only loud if it is not set up right. I have 2x 360mm rads, with 6 120mm fans on them, and my PC is silent, barley making a noise when gaming.


----------



## Dirt Chip (Aug 28, 2022)

I guess I depends on the case.
Also, AIO cost much more and optimally give the same dB level as well optimyzed and quality fans.
It do make it run cooler but that is not my main concern.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 28, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Think @tabascosauz is one of the masters of small builds





dgianstefani said:


> Yeah i'm jealous of his Strix Impact, few years ago they changed the impact form factor from mini to micro ATX, so the best mini ITX board is what I have or the Aorus.



I'm not a master of anything, I've just done a lot of builds/wasted a lot of money is all   and done a lot of traveling with some of them

Right now I gave up the loop for simplicity's sake. Just couldn't bear to have any more problems with the 3070 Ti after what I already went throgh. I don't like the C14S for CPU cooling performance (somewhere around U12S/U14S), but with two fans there still isn't a single cooler in the world that matches its ram airflow. Also still cannot find a case suitably compact/same layout/build quality with >145mm clearance...





But I do have the old loop on the side. I haven't done anything except remove the 5900X, drives and PSU, it's still there. I should really get around to draining and disassembling the loop before something grows in it. I want to go back to it but the P3 won't fit the new card and the Cerb X isn't doable since I stripped that res. Optimus block/280mm XT45/DDC w/ heatkiller res or iceman res. Class is starting again soon too, can't be messing around.





For the truly small stuff (<5L) I like to keep it simple, as it often gets packed into regular suitcases instead of the old Pelican 1510 (which I only use for camera gear now anyway). So APUs and small downdraft coolers only. There are so many more interesting tiny builds out there, but not many that I would trust to take a beating trip after trip





I really like @dgianstefani 's sandwich layout, it really is great at cooling, but sadly my Impact precludes most sandwich cases as it's simply not compatible 

I tried the SS135 and it wasn't exactly competitive (maybe for smaller cases like M1). NH-D12L looks to be about the same, so I guess the wait continues for both cooler and case.


----------



## dgianstefani (Aug 28, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm not a master of anything, I've just done a lot of builds/wasted a lot of money is all   and done a lot of traveling with some of them
> 
> Right now I gave up the loop for simplicity's sake. Just couldn't bear to have any more problems with the 3070 Ti after what I already went throgh. I don't like the C14S for CPU cooling performance (somewhere around U12S/U14S), but with two fans there still isn't a single cooler in the world that matches its ram airflow. Also still cannot find a case suitably compact/same layout/build quality with >145mm clearance...
> 
> ...


I love hating on EK but their black chrome quantum torque fittings are very nice indeed. Was tempted by the gold plated versions too but i'm not going to tear apart the entire loop just for that aesthetic reason.  Admire your cable management and general neatness, I usually get tired of building, tuning and tweaking by the point i'm satisfied with performance, so much that I don't want to spend an extra half hour or so managing aesthetics.


----------



## Shrek (Aug 28, 2022)

Air, I would not want things leaking or freezing in storage.

I've always wondered what strength of anti-freeze does not expand upon freezing (for the car).


----------



## cvaldes (Aug 28, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> If water is too loud, you're doing it wrong.
> 
> Both can be very quiet, but water can continue being very quiet at much higher thermal loads.


dgianstefani is correct.

I am very much a novice at custom cooling loops and only tackled them when the first shelter-in-place orders were issued for the pandemic. I've done two full loops and reconfigured one of those about halfway, so let's say 2.5 loops and what I ended up with for my primary gaming build is in my System Specs.

As I mentioned back on post #122, one of the really big benefits of custom liquid cooling is fewer fan speed changes which are a particular annoyance to my ears. Custom liquid (and to a lesser extent AIOs) is able to handle quick temperature variances because of water's superior thermal capacity. That's physics.

I know some people like to slag on Noctua fans but they do perform well and are quiet. Whether I run a sustained load on the CPU (Cinebench R23 or a Handbrake encode) or play video games, the CPU and GPU radiator fans top out around 1,000 rpm based on my custom fan curves. That is really, really quiet. And while the factory cooler on the ASUS TUF Gaming GeForce RTX 3080 Ti OC has pretty quiet fans, they are nowhere as quiet as the ones in my custom loop.

Again as I started in post #122, PC cooling decisions are always a compromise. I set up fan curves knowing that if I run the fans faster, they will shave off a couple of degrees Celsius but generate more noise. It's up to each PC builder to make those decisions thoughtfully.

Remember that ultimately you are getting rid of the same amount of heat. What liquid cooling does is move that heat to a location and thermal transfer system where it can be more quickly and efficiently dissipated. 

With my full length waterblock I ended up with a GPU radiator fan curve that tops out at 1000 rpm: two-thirds of the Noctua NF-F12 fan's 1500 rpm maximum speed. That results in a GPU maximum temperature of 63 °C which is maybe 5 degrees less than the stock TUF cooler.

You can't just press the auto sense button in QFan Configuration (or whatever it's labeled for your motherboard brand) and expect to get an ideal fan curve.



Dirt Chip said:


> Only air, water is way too loud for me



Optimizing your air cooling solutions for acoustics is a very similar process to doing it for liquid. You still need to play around with the fan curves using your BIOS/UEFI, your motherboard monitor software and GPU monitoring software (EVGA Precision X1, Asus GPUTweak, etc.) based on idle temperatures/fan noise, normal load, and peak.


----------



## claes (Aug 28, 2022)

Pump noise has always bothered me more than fan noise. Not the volume, but the mechanical noises. Then, anything above 700rpm bothers me so :shrug: Fortunately I don’t play games or do anything CPU intensive anymore

Not saying you can’t build an extremely quiet watercooled build (you can), just that noise is more subjective then what can be evaluated with a sound meter.


----------



## cvaldes (Aug 28, 2022)

claes said:


> Pump noise has always bothered me more than fan noise. Not the volume, but the mechanical noises. Then, anything above 700rpm bothers me so :shrug: Fortunately I don’t play games or do anything CPU intensive anymore
> 
> Not saying you can’t build an extremely quiet watercooled build (you can), just that noise is more subjective then what can be evaluated with a sound meter.


For sure everyone's ears perceive noise differently. What bothers one person at a particular frequency may be unremarkable to someone else.

If your PC usage case doesn't generate much in the way of load (CPU, GPU or otherwise), you have more acoustic friendly solutions. There's one Noctua tower cooler that's passive (there's an optional fan). Certainly there are systems that only have passive cooling solutions (Apple's M1 and M2 MacBook Air are completely fanless).

From a performance-per-watt metric and acoustics noise, none of my computers (PC or Mac mini) come close to my iPad mini.

Regardless of decibel reading, the fans on my notebook computers over 20+ years of ownership have all been far more whiny and annoying than any of my desktop PCs.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 28, 2022)

Hi,
Pump noise yeah I use 2 D5's in each of my builds I don't hear shit

D5's hate restriction and is why you may hear or feel them.

Or defective or you hurt it running it dry.


----------



## cvaldes (Aug 28, 2022)

One thing I discovered about custom cooling is how the pump affects acoustics. Sometimes the way it is mounted to the case will amplify noise via resonance.

In my primary gaming PC, the small water pump isn't secured to anything. It sits on a sheet of foam. The case isn't moved around so it doesn't matter that it's not screwed down. The pump is in a partitioned compartment on the far side of the case which undoubtedly also helps.

At least with a custom cooling loop you have the option of relocating the pump somewhere less obtrusive.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 28, 2022)

Hi,
One sits on the floor of the case with just four pads on the feet and one mounted to the back of the case 
Only problem is if you don't mount with plastic or rubber washers 
Or nothing good happens if the impaler is damaged your d5 is gone


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 28, 2022)

robot zombie said:


> It has other PSU options, and things like an optional hinged front rack to add mounting spots. Still gonna be a challenge in terms of rad space. It could concievably house at least two 240mm rads as long as they're under 30mm thick. Or something a like a 280 and a dual 92mm rad - slap some noccies on it for extra bottom rad volume to back up a 280 on the front. The way the mounting areas are punched allows for that kind of stuff, which is handy, because being limited to only convetional component forms would make laying out a full loop and leaving mounting space for a 2.5" drive or two much more difficult - I will have to be pretty careful with part selection to make everything work out. I'm honestly not sure what I would do with a case like this, yet. But that's part of the appeal with this side of building and configuring cooling setups.
> 
> With current platforms allowing for 2 nvme drives, I can deal with doing just that for system/games and then tacking on a fatter sata ssd for general storage. I came into a dual-chip 10-core xeon dell server, which is going to get packed with drives for both shared network storage and backup. So I can leave pretty much all of my available mounting space for cooling. But in a case this compact, I think I would rather go full custom liquid. It would be an interesting challenge for me, and will likely be the better way to get decent cooling for more power-hungry components.



Custom loop in the Cerb X is the epitome of "sounds great, doesn't [really] work". There are some beautiful dual loop Cerb Xs out there, but the pictures do not nearly convey the work that goes into it. And none of them work for any ram that runs hot.

You can easily fit 2 x 240mm rads (1 x 240 and 1 x 280 is doable iirc). The dual 92mm sounds like garbage. The 240mm needs to go on the bottom if you want an ATX board because you aren't getting to your bottom board headers otherwise. Hence the ITX choice for custom loop if bottom 280mm rad (Cerb X does not support mATX), also bottom 280mm may need to be either push or push-pull depending on your rad, because rivets in the bottom prevented a pull-only XT45.

I frequently try to move back into my grey Cerberus X, but always end up coming back to my white Cerberus. Proportions are wack, build quality is worse on mine and the larger size causes a lot of problems with cable length on SFX PSUs. Unless you are willing to buy/make custom lengths just for this case (not a worthy case lmao), SFX cables are too short (EPS) and ATX cables are too long.

But watercooling in Cerb/CerbX is just a very awkward proposition which is part of the reason why I moved the loop out in the end into the Core P3.

If you keep the normal SFX layout like mine, you get decent versatility in using either air or water, but if you do a loop then res location is very tough. You can go external with the Iceman like I do but the bends are really challenging, and having to wrestle with it stripped the acetal threads in the res. Otherwise you're looking at ghetto mounting a normal res externally, or cramming the smallest tube res you can find in the space between the PSU and board. Also have to get rather creative with the tube runs.
If you use the "PSU over board" layout recommended for watercooling, you get much more space for rads and options for res mounting. But for one it looks like complete ass, and you can't use a window unless you want your PSU to starve. It's also the worst case scenario for VRM and RAM temps (best of luck if you run any high performance DDR4 IC), unless you run push pull you will have zero case airflow, period. PSU needs to come out to work on stuff too. Can imagine clearances are a bit tight between the block/fittings and the PSU too, but EK's new low profile fittings should take care of that.
If you want to do it properly, the SM580 looks like a better choice, even if things look visually tight in that case. More rads = more better, but you'd be surprised what you can do on a high end 280 from hwlabs.

Also, kahlin suggested that there may be a fatter Cerb X coming out soon (end of year?). May have much better CPU cooler clearance, and ATX support in the front. If so, I might get one - supporting say a NH-D15, U12A or FC140 would mean I no longer have to look to water to solve my thermals.

In the end, the tubing runs on the Core P3 were much better and simpler, but even so, I didn't notice any performance differences - a single DDC is plenty strong enough for this setup.







dgianstefani said:


> I love hating on EK but their black chrome quantum torque fittings are very nice indeed. Was tempted by the gold plated versions too but i'm not going to tear apart the entire loop just for that aesthetic reason.  Admire your cable management and general neatness, I usually get tired of building, tuning and tweaking by the point i'm satisfied with performance, so much that I don't want to spend an extra half hour or so managing aesthetics.



The EK fittings look nice but they really take a toll on the hands. I put together a loop 3 times (Cerb, Cerb X, P3) and peeling bleeding hands smarted for days. The threads are very short and hard to catch. I should have used more 90s like you do, to ease the angles a bit.

Except for the loops (that take me >1 day), cable management usually takes up the majority of my time. Building takes 1 hour tops, cable runs take 2 hours sometimes in the smaller cases. I know not everybody has that sort of time to waste, and it doesn't improve performance at all.

As the final piece of the puzzle I would love some custom length and curve cables done for my SF750, but I don't yet have a case I feel is worthy of it. Still waiting patiently for Caselabs to come back.



claes said:


> Pump noise has always bothered me more than fan noise. Not the volume, but the mechanical noises. Then, anything above 700rpm bothers me so :shrug: Fortunately I don’t play games or do anything CPU intensive anymore
> 
> Not saying you can’t build an extremely quiet watercooled build (you can), just that noise is more subjective then what can be evaluated with a sound meter.



Pumps are a bit like screens - the lottery might give you a whisper quiet DDC or one that sounds like a banshee. The res you mount it to (or standalone mount) also has a big impact on overall pump sound profile.

AIOs are just not a good choice for pump noise.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 28, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> What kind of quick disconnects are those?


Hi,
Koolance
QD3-MS10X16-BK
QD3-FS10X16-BK

Alphacool showed some nice ones here








						Alphacool Presents Eiswolf 2 and Eisblock for GPU Cooling
					

Alphacool today releases a new Eiswolf 2 all-in-one water cooler as well as two other Eisblock water coolers for MSI and EVGA graphics cards. The Eiswolf 2 uses the 360 mm NexXxoS ST30 all-copper radiator. The Aurora Rise fan in the 120 mm version is included. The AIO is completed by the...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Mussels (Aug 29, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> A recent question brought up a good point about pump noise so bumping the thread
> 
> People get to lazy and use to many 90 degree fittings instead of 45's or even straight barbs with soft tubing or even hard tubing take the easy out and 90 everything to avoid bending tubing
> ...


Hmm. Never thought of 45's that way


As to the D5 discussion i've got two and they're completely silent - but you screw anything up and vibration can ruin your day. A loose screw or having the attached pump/res directly touching case metal, and you'll know about it.


----------



## Dirt Chip (Aug 29, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> Optimizing your air cooling solutions for acoustics is a very similar process to doing it for liquid. You still need to play around with the fan curves using your BIOS/UEFI, your motherboard monitor software and GPU monitoring software (EVGA Precision X1, Asus GPUTweak, etc.) based on idle temperatures/fan noise, normal load, and peak.


I have no budget for a good water AIO, even less for a good custom water loop.
Except for an extreme scenarios, fans can do the same work for much less money and more easy (for me, at lest) to config and install.
Good fans last longer then radiator and much easier to change, clean and no re-fill is required (obviously).

Also, I need lots of HDD storage in my case (big library of RAW video) so AIO, and to much bigger extent custom loop, eats up too much real estate.

Maybe, one day, I will entertain myself with external custom loop build if I have the money and the motivation


----------



## claes (Aug 29, 2022)

Just wanna say that I’ve owned two d5’s, three mcp655’s, a vpp755, a couple of DDC’s, and used to run eheim’s (actually my favorite), and built a few WC setups for others. I never mounted any of them, and even suspended them with bungees and other odd mounts, as well as the just-sitting-on-foam mount, shoggy sandwich, undervolting, etc.

They can be quiet, but the whiny motor noise always bugged, whether my fans were running or not.

I know I’m not the only one who finds them intrusive, but generally agree that once you add fan noise most people won’t notice — many won’t notice even without added fan noise. I’ve had people claim those systems were silent and was just confused. Then, some people think Asetek pumps are silent :shrug:


----------



## Mussels (Aug 29, 2022)

claes said:


> Just wanna say that I’ve owned two d5’s, three mcp655’s, a vpp755, a couple of DDC’s, and used to run eheim’s (actually my favorite), and built a few WC setups for others. I never mounted any of them, and even suspended them with bungees and other odd mounts, as well as the just-sitting-on-foam mount, shoggy sandwich, undervolting, etc.
> 
> They can be quiet, but the whiny motor noise always bugged, whether my fans were running or not.
> 
> I know I’m not the only one who finds them intrusive, but generally agree that once you add fan noise most people won’t notice — many won’t notice even without added fan noise. I’ve had people claim those systems were silent and was just confused. Then, some people think Asetek pumps are silent :shrug:


Mounting them properly gets rid of that whine
Both my D5's (ones EK PWM, ones random old skool with a dial) have that noise, but when mounted it's simply gone. I left my fill hose attached and the noise came back after a few days and I was confused til I found the metal end piece of it touching the case, removed that and it was silent again


----------



## claes (Aug 29, 2022)

You’re crazy lol I could never bare a d5 mounted


----------



## Mussels (Aug 29, 2022)

claes said:


> You’re crazy lol I could never bare a d5 mounted


?
It's quieter and more secure...


----------



## de.das.dude (Aug 30, 2022)

Lei said:


> You might become the first person to leak himself on his pc




i do leak a lot of sweat onto my PC already.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 30, 2022)

Hi,
Pump whine well you'd get that if there's air trapped in a d5 top or combo if it's mounted sideways/ horizontal instead of straight up and down like d5 combos with reservoirs are typically mounted ek dual d5 unit is usually mounted this way to same deal just more grunt 

So it's usually just an air issue also caused by not running the pump full blast during leak testing and tilting the case every which way to get rid of air bubbles every where
Getting all the air out takes more time than people are willing to give it and slow the pump down way to early.


----------



## cvaldes (Aug 30, 2022)

In my short time with custom cooling loops, I found that varying the pump speed periodically helps better in getting rid of air bubbles.

If you run the pump at full tilt, the impeller spins so fast some bubbles don't have a chance to escape; they are trapped inside the impeller's core and around the spindle. Varying the pump speed from slow-medium-fast provides more opportunities to dissipate some of these bubbles.

As ThrashZone mentions, you do need to tilt the case in a bunch of directions to dislodge air bubbles in various crevices. For sure, there are some custom cooling builds out there that are noisier than they should be because the owner didn't take the time to eliminate more bubbles.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 30, 2022)

Hi,
Hell I even bop the case a few times in every tilted position to release the little bugger bubbles
Then it always looks like I'm using white fluid when it's really clear another thing I love about plexi and clear tubing get to see everything


----------



## cvaldes (Aug 30, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Hell I even bop the case a few times in every tilted position to release the little bugger bubbles


That's something I don't do.

3-pin and 4-pin RGB cables never seem to grip tightly on their motherboard headers. A little too risky for me to jar one loose by bopping the case.

Perhaps you have a different system configuration that eliminates this hazard.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 30, 2022)

Hi,
Leak testing you're not dealing with a completely live system otherwise it wouldn't be a testing environment get a leak in a live system and board is easily toasted
24 pin tripper is used just so molex/ sata is live for the pump to operate and nothing else 

After getting all the air out just check connections and and you're done basically 



			https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X9SVB5K?tag=startpage03e-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1


----------



## AM4isGOD (Aug 30, 2022)

I always jump the ATX24 for pump/loop testing for at least a couple of hours, but to be honest, not much chance of a leak with good compression fittings.


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 30, 2022)

I got this nice one.  Maybe I'm a sucker for RGB.  in this case just the R.



			https://www.amazon.com/CRJ-24-Pin-Switch-Jumper-Sleeved/dp/B01MSY4966


----------



## 68Olds (Aug 30, 2022)

I use this one...


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 30, 2022)

68Olds said:


> I use this one...


That paperclip is HUGE!


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 30, 2022)

AM4isGOD said:


> I always jump the ATX24 for pump/loop testing for at least a couple of hours, but to be honest, not much chance of a leak with good compression fittings.


Hi,
All my radiators are gtx so dual core and complex
I give it as long as it takes usually over night after I feel most air is out
In the morning I repeat bopping it around a bit and if bubbles or very little is released I'm done.

Another thing
I never completely fill the reservoir during leak/.. testing
I always keep it an inch+- below the top so I can see the fluid line running and off so I can see how far the water line drops turning the system on
When there is very little air in the system the line drop is only 1/4" or less
Anymore and you've still got air somewhere so tilt and bop it more.
Then top it off.

PITA in other words


----------



## cvaldes (Aug 30, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Leak testing you're not dealing with a completely live system otherwise it wouldn't be a testing environment get a leak in a live system and board is easily toasted
> 24 pin tripper is used just so molex/ sata is live for the pump to operate and nothing else
> 
> ...


Unfortunately my custom loop builds require me to plug in all of the motherboard header connections before I complete the loop. Most of the motherboard connectors are along the perimeter of the motherboard that are inaccessible once the loop is set up.

I do test individual cooling loop components outside of the case for product defects.

Once the loop is set up, I will run the pump only from an extra PSU outside the case. I'll let this run overnight for leak detection and bubble purging but no longer. Running pump only with the external PSU at low speeds is a pretty good way of eliminating most of the air bubbles from the pump impeller and shaft.

During this time I'll vary the pump motor speed because I have one of these:



			https://www.amazon.com/icepc-Channels-Cooling-Controller-Interface/dp/B08CXYZLBK/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3AVHYERFCIJJ6&keywords=fan+controller+pci&sprefix=fan+controller+pci%2Caps%2C244&sr=8-3
		


Even if the RGB isn't powered up, roughly jostling the chassis can still dislodge the flimsy connectors. I can reconnect some cables with a pair of forceps, some I cannot.

You are likely more patient than me because I'll eventually want to use the system as a functional computer. So I end up tilting a running computer from time to time because there are always a few bubbles hanging around.


----------



## maxfly (Aug 30, 2022)

I use a aquacomputer dr.drop leak tester now. It's simple to use and dead accurate. It'll find even the smallest leak. I've been using it for 3 or 4 years. It's worth its weight in gold in that I know for a fact that I haven't forgotten to tighten anything down. I still paper towel all of my connections juuust in case but it hasn't missed any. I go from the air test overnight to full on.


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 30, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> Once the loop is set up, I will run the pump only from an extra PSU outside the case.


This is what I do as well and keep an old PSU I pulled from an old HP around just for that.


----------



## AM4isGOD (Aug 30, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> This is what I do as well and keep an old PSU I pulled from an old HP around just for that.



Not a bad idea, i have an old one for just this


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 30, 2022)

Hi,
Air pressure testing is an insult to the assembler I'll have none of that


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 30, 2022)

maxfly said:


> I use a aquacomputer dr.drop leak tester now. It's simple to use and dead accurate. It'll find even the smallest leak. I've been using it for 3 or 4 years. It's worth its weight in gold in that I know for a fact that I haven't forgotten to tighten anything down. I still paper towel all of my connections juuust in case but it hasn't missed any. I go from the air test overnight to full on.


I have the original EK leak tester that was a bit confusing because of the white/green/red gauge readout.  Luckily I read the instructions first and managed to avoid breaking anything.
It was also quite clunky and heavy to use but got the job done.  It's discontinued now.


----------



## AM4isGOD (Aug 30, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Air pressure testing is an insult to the assembler I'll have none of that



I have never air pressure tested. I am pretty sure compression fittings with soft tubing cannot leak. The only reason for pressure testers is with inferior hard line setups.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 30, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> I have the original EK leak tester that was a bit confusing because of the white/green/red gauge readout.  Luckily I read the instructions first and managed to avoid breaking anything.
> It was also quite clunky and heavy to use but got the job done.  It's discontinued now.
> 
> View attachment 260053


Hi,
Of course it took them years to sell the one you bought 
Overkill but you could of made one from local hardware store for cheap.


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 30, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Of course it took them years to sell the one you bought
> Overkill but you could of made one from local hardware store for cheap.


I was new to custom loops then and figured I'll stick with one brand for now until I get my feet wet (pun intended) and get the hang of it first before trying more exotic setups.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 30, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> I was new to custom loops then and figured I'll stick with one brand for now until I get my feet wet (pun intended) and get the hang of it first before trying more exotic setups.


Hi,
Yeah think we all have made that mistake freaking garbage ek kits from years ago here


----------



## AM4isGOD (Aug 31, 2022)

Only think EK in my loop are the 360mm PE and CE radiators, the CE imo is pretty good.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 31, 2022)

AM4isGOD said:


> Only think EK in my loop are the 360mm EK and CE radiators, the CE imo is pretty good.


Hi,
CE series is barely okay I have a couple not using I swapped for hardware labs gtx-280's
SE is trash tossed a couple
PE is a lot better than both
XE well if you have room is top of ek line


----------



## A Computer Guy (Aug 31, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> CE series is barely okay I have a couple not using I swapped for hardware labs gtx-280's
> SE is trash tossed a couple
> PE is a lot better than both
> XE well if you have room is top of ek line


I'm pretty happy with the CoolStream PE 360 although (as you probably already know from my rebuild thread) I was surprised to find these black ports were extensions.  (see screenshot)
I'm really not a fan of that now that I know they exist.  At least I know now to be careful if I have to undo my compression fitting or I'm going to have to reseat them again.


----------



## ThrashZone (Aug 31, 2022)

Hi,
Yep ek two possible leaks instead of every one else that only sells one possible leak ports 
Yep I remember my surprise to when that bugger came off on me


----------



## AM4isGOD (Aug 31, 2022)

Sorry i am a spud fingers.

I have a XE in the bottom, and a PE in the top.


----------



## cvaldes (Aug 31, 2022)

AM4isGOD said:


> I have never air pressure tested. I am pretty sure compression fittings with soft tubing cannot leak. The only reason for pressure testers is with inferior hard line setups.


I have never used an air pressure tester either and I also use soft tubing.

I do validate new components in a simple test loop outside the case for leaks. I've had two defective components: a pump with a cracked port and an acrylic reservoir with a hairline crack.

The only leaks I've had inside the case were due to me not screwing down the fittings tight enough. That happened twice: small leaks, no damage.

I never found a reason to stick with one brand of custom cooling loop components. My primary gaming PC loop is a hodge podge of parts from different manufacturers: waterblocks from Alphacool, radiators from Primochill and Alphacool, reservoir from Bitspower, and cheap Phobya pump (probably cheap Chinese manufacture). The fittings are from 3-4 companies. Some of the tubing is Corsair and other tubing is generic food-grade tubing purchased on Amazon.

There's a second custom loop PC (GPU only) plus some unused parts which include EKWB and XSPC. Apart from favoring Alphacool for the waterblocks I'm pretty open to using parts from competitors.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 31, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> That's something I don't do.
> 
> 3-pin and 4-pin RGB cables never seem to grip tightly on their motherboard headers. A little too risky for me to jar one loose by bopping the case.
> 
> Perhaps you have a different system configuration that eliminates this hazard.


I use duct tape on those bastards, and cheapo chinese extensions. If needed, i'll damn well glue an extension in place and tape it to the hardwares RGB cable


They really did screw up, we need a 3rd generation thats backwards compatible with a clip connector.


----------



## SpittinFax (Aug 31, 2022)

maxfly said:


> I use a aquacomputer dr.drop leak tester now. It's simple to use and dead accurate. It'll find even the smallest leak. I've been using it for 3 or 4 years. It's worth its weight in gold in that I know for a fact that I haven't forgotten to tighten anything down. I still paper towel all of my connections juuust in case but it hasn't missed any. I go from the air test overnight to full on.



I'd definitely want to pressure test before filling a liquid cooling loop, otherwise there's no reliable way to know it's watertight. I haven't done any water-cooled PC's but I've done leak tests on diesel cooling systems and uncovered the occasional invisible leak. Can't say much about it (secret stuff) but the biggest diesel machine I tested held over 250 litres of coolant and it would've been a total disaster if it blew one of the (many) pipes off under pressure. But it didn't.


----------



## claes (Aug 31, 2022)

Mussels said:


> ?
> It's quieter and more secure...


I was hoping to avoid an argument that is almost entirely subjective. Maybe you just aren’t as sensitive to higher frequencies as I am?

Still, I could never bare a hard mount, and not even because of the whine. The resonance to the chassis from the motor is super annoying IMO. I always ended up suspending D5’s :shrug:


----------



## AM4isGOD (Aug 31, 2022)

Myt pump/res is mounted via 4x rubber isolators, but on 100% i can still hear the pump. I don't think there is any way to make it totally silent above 70% speed


----------



## dgianstefani (Aug 31, 2022)

AM4isGOD said:


> Myt pump/res is mounted via 4x rubber isolators, but on 100% i can still hear the pump. I don't think there is any way to make it totally silent above 70% speed


Imo D5 does not need more than 50%, if that's issue, just add second pump. Helps with longevity and redundancy too.


----------



## AM4isGOD (Aug 31, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> Imo D5 does not need more than 50%, if that's issue, just add second pump. Helps with longevity and redundancy too.



30-40% is what i have mine running at


----------



## dgianstefani (Aug 31, 2022)

Same, 30% up to 65c, 35 up to 70c, 45 above 70c for spikes.

I have an inline coolant flow/temperature sensor but my idiot motherboard won't control PWM based off it, so it's only useful for monitoring.


----------



## Dirt Chip (Aug 31, 2022)

Quick Look: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II Service Kit
					

ARCTIC showcases how to handle a potential quality control issue the right way by being proactive about it. Today we take a look at the ARCTIC service kit for affected batches of its popular Liquid Freezer II AIO CPU coolers and go through the service process ourselves to see how user-friendly...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




A good example way not to choose water, unless you must OR you just love the handling and maintenance process by itself (which is a wonderful hobby IMO).
And this is the best case scenario, where a company take full responsibility. Just think how many cases out there where there is a problem, you just don't know about it...


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## AM4isGOD (Aug 31, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> Same, 30% up to 65c, 35 up to 70c, 45 above 70c for spikes.
> 
> I have an inline coolant flow/temperature sensor but my idiot motherboard won't control PWM based off it, so it's only useful for monitoring.



I still have a AQ flow sensor, that is still in the box


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## dgianstefani (Aug 31, 2022)

Dirt Chip said:


> Quick Look: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II Service Kit
> 
> 
> ARCTIC showcases how to handle a potential quality control issue the right way by being proactive about it. Today we take a look at the ARCTIC service kit for affected batches of its popular Liquid Freezer II AIO CPU coolers and go through the service process ourselves to see how user-friendly...
> ...


In other news AIOs are crap... 

Tell me more how this affects "water"


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## Dirt Chip (Aug 31, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> In other news AIOs are crap...
> 
> Tell me more how this affects "water"


I dont think it`s crap at all, just carry a grater potential of problems than just using fans.
And if fans can do the same work AIO dose with less potential problems, then why to choose AIO?


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## ThrashZone (Aug 31, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> Same, 30% up to 65c, 35 up to 70c, 45 above 70c for spikes.
> 
> I have an inline coolant flow/temperature sensor but my idiot motherboard won't control PWM based off it, so it's only useful for monitoring.


Hi,
Some have the same issue and turned to one of these 









						OCN  Aquaero Owners Club
					

Welcome to the Aquaero Owners Club thread  This is the new thread for all things Aquaero and Aquaero / Aquasuite related.  The original Aquaero 6 thread was started as a new hardware thread for the then coming release of the Aquaero 6.  The A6 is here and in short order has grown quite a...




					www.overclock.net


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## qubit (Aug 31, 2022)

I built my 2700K rig (see specs) such a long time ago now, but I still remember the decisions I made, which have stood the test of time.

I don't want to put liquid inside my PC so water cooling is out. I do some casual overclocking though. I therefore put the superb Noctua NH-D14 in it. I've run the non-PWM fans with the speed reducer since day one. It's been super quiet ever since, with the fans still showing no signs of wear 11 years later - phenomenal. In particular, I don't need to increase their speed even with the CPU running a hot stress test.

That yuck colour scheme on the fans is the only thing I don't like about it and that will be fixed in the next build with the grey versions.

You can bet that my next build will have a Noctua cooler in it after this enduring performance.

This rig is still going strong to this day.


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## ThrashZone (Aug 31, 2022)

Hi,
Yep a lot cheaper and safer to just change the room ambient.


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## dgianstefani (Aug 31, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Some have the same issue and turned to one of these
> 
> 
> ...


I've considered it, might do so if I can combine with fan hub etc, already have a fan hub jury rigged in.


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## ThrashZone (Aug 31, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> I've considered it, might do so if I can combine with fan hub etc, already have a fan hub jury rigged in.


Hi,
It's a detailed op there 
Op even designed the firmware to make it function as you'd want it to.


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## claes (Aug 31, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> In other news AIOs are crap...
> 
> Tell me more how this affects "water"


I'm just glad it exists! One of the few non-Asetek, non-CoolIt options around, performs better and is quieter than both, and they back it up when it doesn't work. I'm impressed with how transparent they are about their mistake.


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## Kissamies (Aug 31, 2022)

-Arctic Freezer 50 on the CPU
-Gigabyte stock Windforce x3 on the GPU
-2x SilentiumPC Sigma Pro 140mm as intake
-Corsair ML120 Pro as exhaust

Simply because having a custom loop in my mATX case is problematic.


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## dgianstefani (Aug 31, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> It's a detailed op there
> Op even designed the firmware to make it function as you'd want it to.


Motherboard manufacturers could stop pushing their own crap and license the aquero to replace their fan headers and useless screens on the motherboard.


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## Devon68 (Aug 31, 2022)

When I was building my first PC I remember wanting a NH-D14 because it was the best, and it looked so cool (pun intended). Thinking back now it was a good thing I could not afford one. NH-D14 on a FX-6100 - the hell was I thinking


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## ThrashZone (Aug 31, 2022)

Devon68 said:


> When I was building my first PC I remember wanting a NH-D14 because it was the best, and it looked so cool (pun intended). Thinking back now it was a good thing I could not afford one. NH-D14 on a FX-6100 - the hell was I thinking


Hi,
Interesting back in the day I got a D14 because I thought it was as big as my case could fit


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## A Computer Guy (Sep 5, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> A recent question brought up a good point about pump noise so bumping the thread
> 
> People get to lazy and use to many 90 degree fittings instead of 45's or even straight barbs with soft tubing or even hard tubing take the easy out and 90 everything to avoid bending tubing
> Personally I don't mind the octopus look and even if I used hard tubing I would bend the tube instead of over use of 90's but some people not so much and like straight lines/... and the pump curses them so they have to slow it down to limit pump noise


I think I brought up that question but I can't seem to find my reply chain on that.  Just wanted to let you know I finally removed 5 of 6 90's with straight barbs but my pump noise still remains - no improvement. Either I simply got a noisy pump, or the distroplate 90's are the issue, or my case resonance with the EK D5 pump/distroplate combo is just noisy.


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## ThrashZone (Sep 5, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> I think I brought up that question but I can't seem to find my reply chain on that.  Just wanted to let you know I finally removed 5 of 6 90's with straight barbs but my pump noise still remains - no improvement. Either I simply got a noisy pump, or the distroplate 90's are the issue, our my case resonance with the EK D5 pump/distroplate combo is just noisy.


Hi,
Yep distro plate pump is sideways this is not helping either

You might set the case on it's back so the distro plate is on top and D5 up like a traditional pump res combo sits maybe some air will release




But yes I hate the double 90 loops on the distro plate to
Couple hard pipe or soft pipe horse shoes would be better might even add a flow meter on one of them so it's at least functional.


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## Lei (Sep 5, 2022)

Devon68 said:


> When I was building my first PC I remember wanting a NH-D14 because it was the best, and it looked so cool (pun intended). Thinking back now it was a good thing I could not afford one. NH-D14 on a FX-6100 - the hell was I thinking


Let me see, this is 99$:





I got this brand new for 85$:


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## ThrashZone (Sep 5, 2022)

Lei said:


> Let me see, this is 99$:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi,
Did the suite case come with it


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## Lei (Sep 5, 2022)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Did the suite case come with it


Nope, I'm planning to buy an all-aluminum suitcase. 

box says "an thickness of" - can you confirm this typo is universal.


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## gffermari (Sep 5, 2022)

I had air coolers and AIOs for years.
But it's been 2-3 years that I have a custom water loop.
It's not worth it generally, meaning you can find most of the performance in AIOs, but it's more like a hobby now.


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## damric (Sep 5, 2022)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Probably 15 years ago I went with an external water-cooling solution and have never went back. Radiators, pump, reservoir with quick disconnect hoses in an external case. I haven't needed to upgrade it for a looong time. Best investment in cooling ever. Only needed new blocks for different chipsets and GPU's. I recently just moved all my components into a newer case. More cost upfront, especially for quality parts,  but much lower lifetime costs for top of the line cooling and overclocking. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01C71Q8PA/ref=twister_B07RQ2SWM7
> 
> Also it wasn't that expensive. Don't buy "water-cooling" hoses. Just go to homedepot and get it for like .33 a foot. Don't use "Water-cooling" fittings go to a hardware store. My reservior is custom made from PVC pipe, it's inside a box why do I care how it looks? Don't buy "water-cooling" additives. Use Distilled water with a little distilled vinegar. And finally make sure you are not mixing metals. Always get nickel plated or copper blocks.


I love the hardware store for wc parts. A lot of the dishwasher and aquarium parts are the same size and often better quality. I also like to get the dirt cheap stuff direct from China via ali Express, ebay, ect. I have not had any problems with mixed metals, and often there's like 5 or 6 different ones in my loops, like silver, brass, copper, nickel, titanium, cobalt, ect. I like to rebuild old AIOs and I have plenty of air coolers as well.


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## Lei (Sep 5, 2022)

damric said:


> I love the hardware store for wc parts. A lot of the dishwasher and aquarium parts are the same size and often better quality. I also like to get the dirt cheap stuff direct from China via ali Express, ebay, ect. I have not had any problems with mixed metals, and often there's like 5 or 6 different ones in my loops, like silver, brass, copper, nickel, titanium, cobalt, ect. I like to rebuild old AIOs and I have plenty of air coolers as well.



holy cow, from where u got silver? got any gold bro 



12v 5w pump
I use this pump. 26 yuan and 5 yuan shipping. Directly connects to mobo and is small enough to dive into my special reservoir:


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## damric (Sep 5, 2022)

Lei said:


> holy cow, from where u got silver? got any gold bro View attachment 260751
> 
> 12v 5w pump
> I use this pump. 26 yuan and 5 yuan shipping. Directly connects to mobo and is small enough to dive into my special reservoir:
> ...


You never used silver coils or silver plugs?


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## Lei (Sep 5, 2022)

damric said:


> You never used silver coils or silver plugs?


No, Can you share a pic of yours. Where did u get them? it's not generic of watercooling right?


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## ThrashZone (Sep 5, 2022)

Lei said:


> No, Can you share a pic of yours. Where did u get them? it's not generic of watercooling right?


Hi,
Not needed for premix fluids.


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## damric (Sep 5, 2022)

Lei said:


> No, Can you share a pic of yours. Where did u get them? it's not generic of watercooling right?





			https://www.amazon.com/Bezel-Cloisonne-Strip-Silver-Half-Hard/dp/B0767QCLNT/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=QZDUZ&content-id=amzn1.sym.8cf3b8ef-6a74-45dc-9f0d-6409eb523603&pf_rd_p=8cf3b8ef-6a74-45dc-9f0d-6409eb523603&pf_rd_r=GPYAXM7V6R67D66NA5YK&pd_rd_wg=mmoVH&pd_rd_r=37e5240d-4c49-47da-90d3-08bb9c225205&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mi


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## ZoneDymo (Sep 7, 2022)

damric said:


> You never used silver coils or silver plugs?


its honestly not going to add much of anything, copper is as much a biocide as silver is if not better.


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## ThrashZone (Sep 7, 2022)

Hi,
Think the key is don't just use distilled water 
PH7-8 is tough to maintain so I just use premix or concentrate 
I use mayhems x1 clear atm but next flush :"which is good for 12 months +-" I'll use mayhems XTR fluid for longer usage 2+ years again depending on ph level.


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## Arco (Sep 7, 2022)

Stock intel cooler on an I5-7400.


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## jallenlabs (Sep 19, 2022)

On my gaming rig I went with Cooler Masters Sub Zero ML360 on my 11700k and its awesome.  On my workstation (a 12700k), I just switched from Noctua U12A to a Cooler Master ML280 AiO.  It performs a bit better and its easier to work on.  My router is running the stock Intel heatsink on a 6100.  My daughters rig has a Cooler Master Hyper212EVO on her 9700k.  Man, I am starting to see a pattern here...


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