# Cannot change VCCIN in ThrottleStop and turn on PowerCut



## XuluX (Aug 16, 2018)

I have following process yet cannot stop it from under throttling while playing games

7th Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Processors i7-7500U
# of Cores                             2
# of Threads                         4
Processor Base Frequency 2.70 GHz
Max Turbo Frequency         3.50 GHz
Cache                                     4 MB SmartCache
Bus Speed                             4 GT/s OPI
TDP                                        15 W
Configurable TDP-up Frequency  2.90 GHz
Configurable TDP-up                      25 W
Configurable TDP-down Frequency 800 MHz
Configurable TDP-down 7.5 W

I have tried every thing to stop the processor from throttling,  tried setting the registries keys for "Games", setting "PowerThrottlingOff" to 1, putting laptop power on "high performance", setting "Processor Power Management" settings to 100% for plugged-in, uninstalling framework thermal drivers and many more, nothing worked. I am trying to run the processor at constant speed without throttling while i am gaming
After hours of searching on throttling issues, i came across ThrottleStop and a guide showed me to set the following settings in order to stop processor from throttling.
> Uncheck SpeedStep "it allows processor to turn on/off multiple cores" - unchecking will turn on all cores - worked
> Uncheck C1E "It allows processor to run at multiple speeds" - unchecking will set the processor to run on max speed - worked
> Uncheck Disable Turbo - allows to turn the turbo on at all time - worked - CPU @3.4Ghz constant
> Uncheck BD PROCHOT - disables critical shutdown/power down when any components reach critical temperature - dont know if this works
> Check  clock modulation and set it to 100% - dont know if this works - mods always showed 100%
> Check Set Multiplier and set it to max (35T) in my case - don't know if this works - reported running at 35T multiplier
> Check Speed Shift and set it to 0 - dont know what this means?




> Click TPL 
              >Check TDP Level Control (what is TDP level control?) 
              > Check Lock in-front of it - a box with 0 (dont know what this means)?
              >Click Apply ok as can bee seen in the screenshot - dont know this all works or not
What is TDP Level Limits on the top of TPL option? i.e. TDP level 1 -  TDP -  Min -  Max -  Ratio, TDP level 2 -  TDP -  Min -  Max -  Ratio

> Then i undervolted the processor by clicking on FIVR and set offset voltage to -140.6mV for reducing the CPU temperature - worked

Still the CPU throttles while playing games, i monitored the readings on ThrottleStop- the CPU barely got to 80C and the TDP throttle kicked in (My Previous CPU 6200U goes to 95C and nothing kicked in), CPU speed drops from 3.5Ghz to 2Ghz, Multipliers drops from 35 to 20, power drops from 13W to 6W and FPS drops like hell broke on earth. Further more i witnessed PL1 is throttling the CPU
Then i came across a guide showing me to bypass PL1 and PL2 from throttle by setting VCCIN in FIVR options and enabling PowerCut option, i see those VCCIN dimmed (cannot be set) and infront of PowerCut i see written "Locked" (also dimmed as can be seen in above screenshot)

Why are VCCIN and PowerCut options dimmed in FIVR ? How can i enable them?
Can anyone please help me guide to bypass this throttling issue?
Also the process throttles with or without turbo boost.


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## unclewebb (Aug 17, 2018)

XuluX said:


> the CPU barely got to 80C and the TDP throttle kicked in


Most throttling schemes are strictly power based.  You might think that CPU temperature should be part of the throttling equation but it is not.

The 7500U has a 15 Watt TDP rating.  In many laptops, there is no way to run the CPU continuously beyond this limit.  The 15 Watt limit will be set in multiple locations and ThrottleStop or Intel XTU will not be able to get beyond this limit.  How much success you have all depends on the laptop manufacturer.  Some laptops with low power U series CPUs are locked down to an extreme level.  Very few manufacturers will leave things wide open.  Here is how a Lenovo laptop with a 7500U runs when it is not throttled.






This 7500U is running the most demanding application at full speed without a hint of throttling.  Being able to run at 28 Watts gives more performance than being limited to 15 Watts.  With some under volting, you can reduce the power and heat so you can continue running full speed indefinitely. 

First question is what is your C0% when your CPU is idle at the desktop with no programs open?  0.5%, 1.0% or way higher?  An idle 2 core CPU should have both cores averaging almost 99% of the time in the low power C7 state.






If you are way off these numbers then it is time to start cleaning up your computer and eliminate any useless background tasks. 

SST in green on the main ThrottleStop screen means that you have enabled Speed Shift.  When Speed Shift is enabled, SpeedStep is no longer used so it does not need to be checked, and the Set Multiplier function no longer does anything so it should not be checked either.  Very few modern computers use Clock Modulation for throttling purposes anymore.  No need to check this if your computer is not using this throttling method.

Open up the Options window and check the box, Add Limit Reasons to Log File.  If you have an Nvidia GPU then check that box too.  If you are going to do any stress testing or gaming or whatever, turn on the Log File option so you will have an accurate record of your CPU's performance.

The Configurable TDP Level 2 is 25 Watts and TDP Level 0 is 15 Watts.  If you locked this to Level 0, that was not a good idea.  The only way to unlock it is to do a full reboot and before you run ThrottleStop, delete the ThrottleStop.INI config file so you can start from square one.  If you run ThrottleStop without deleting the INI file, it will just lock TDP Level to 0 again and again.

TDP Level 1 is a meager 7 Watts, max.  It sure sounds like your CPU is dropping down into TDP Level 1.  This just kills performance.  Who made your laptop?  Just curious.  TDP Level can be set in multiple locations and unfortunately, ThrottleStop does not have access to some of these.  The CPU compares TDP Level requests and uses the lowest power level requested.  Intel XTU does not allow you to adjust TDP Level either.  If this is the case, you are screwed.  The only possible solution then is to under volt and keep slowing your CPU down so it never falls off the TDP Level cliff.  You want to avoid entering TDP Level 1 at all costs.

For under volting, for your CPU, both the CPU Cache and CPU Core need to be set equally in ThrottleStop.  If you are under volting the Intel GPU then in ThrottleStop, you will also need to under volt the System Agent to the same value.   

The PowerCut feature took advantage of a defect in the 4th Gen CPUs.  This defect was patched in later Intel CPUs.  Without access to a wide variety of hardware for testing purposes, I am not sure what generation that this was fully patched but that is why ThrottleStop does not allow you to access these options anymore.  Either Intel or a bios update or a Windows 10 microcode update fixed this issue.

In the Turbo Power Limits window, have you tried increasing the Package Power Long from 15 Watts to say 25 Watts?  That would be the first thing a person should try.  Do some quick testing with the built in TS Bench test.  First open the Limit Reasons window and then open the TS Bench test.  Watch for throttling.  Anything lighting up in red when the CPU is fully loaded?  Use a more demanding test like Prime95 if you need to prove this further.

Just some random thoughts.  Post some ThrottleStop pics or log file data that shows throttling in progress.


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## XuluX (Aug 17, 2018)

Thanks for the briefing, really very help full, i am replying when i am away from laptop (at office)


unclewebb said:


> First question is what is your C0% when your CPU is idle at the desktop with no programs open?  0.5%, 1.0% or way higher?  An idle 2 core CPU should have both cores averaging almost 99% of the time in the low power C7 state.


Never witnessed the C0% state or C7 State when laptop was on idle, will do it when i get home and share the screenshot of C states



unclewebb said:


> Open up the Options window and check the box, Add Limit Reasons to Log File, If you have an Nvidia GPU then check that box too. If you are going to do any stress testing or gaming or whatever, turn on the Log File option so you will have an accurate record of your CPU's performance



Well i monitored "Limit Reasons" while TDP throttle kicked in, it showed PL1 marked red under the "Core" and something other marked red under "Ring", will share the screenshot of limit reasons and log files as well
I have AMD GPU but when i click AMD it goes dim without marking it "check", meaning ThrottleStop cannot detect GPU?



unclewebb said:


> The Configurable TDP Level 2 is 25 Watts and TDP Level 0 is 15 Watts. If you locked this to Level 0, that was not a good idea


What exactly is TDP level 2 and TDP level 0 ??  Power Short, Power Long ??

What does locking TDP to Level 0 means? - i will reset this, should i set this value again to any other than 0, some guide showed to set this value to 2 ?



unclewebb said:


> TDP Level 1 is a meager 7 Watts, max. It sure sounds like your CPU is dropping down into TDP Level 1. This just kills performance. Who made your laptop? Just curious. TDP Level can be set in multiple locations and unfortunately, ThrottleStop does not have access to some of these. The CPU compares TDP Level requests and uses the lowest power level requested. Intel XTU does not allow you to adjust TDP Level either. If this is the case, you are screwed. The only possible solution then is to under volt and keep slowing your CPU down so it never falls off the TDP Level cliff. You want to avoid entering TDP Level 1 at all costs.



I saw value 11 in TDP level 1 in a guide video of CPU 7500U same laptop, how can i increase this value, surely laptop is designed to kill performance, its Dell Inspiron 5567 i7, where can i set the TDP level in Intel XTU? I feel like i am screwed after buying this machine, i never had these issue with Dell. I have under vold the Core, Cache, Intel GPU already - will set these values as explained. Increasing TDP level 1 to 20W or 25W will cause the CPU to enever fall off the TDP cliff.



unclewebb said:


> In the Turbo Power Limits window, have you tried increasing the Package Power Long from 15 Watts to say 25 Watts? That would be the first thing a person should try. Do some quick testing with the built in TS Bench test. First open the Limit Reasons window and then open the TS Bench test. Watch for throttling. Anything lighting up in red when the CPU is fully loaded? Use a more demanding test like Prime95 if you need to prove this further.
> 
> Just some random thoughts. Post some ThrottleStop pics or log file data that shows throttling in progress



I have increased that to 25W as a guide told me to match Power Long with Power Short, but throttle still kicked in, i did run the built in TS Bench test and Limit Reasons showed PL1 marked red under the "Core" and something other marked red under "Ring", 

will share the screenshot of limit reasons while throttling is happening and log files as well when i get home

Many Thanks


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## XuluX (Aug 17, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> First question is what is your C0% when your CPU is idle at the desktop with no programs open? 0.5%, 1.0% or way higher? An idle 2 core CPU should have both cores averaging almost 99% of the time in the low power C7 state.



Here is what i see in C State when idling, i have no idea what C state are for, how can i make sure the CPU is in the right C state




unclewebb said:


> Open up the Options window and check the box, Add Limit Reasons to Log File, If you have an Nvidia GPU then check that box too. If you are going to do any stress testing or gaming or whatever, turn on the Log File option so you will have an accurate record of your CPU's performance



Here i ran the game and waited until TDP throttle kicked in, below screenshot of Limit Reasons, i only see PL1 causing throttle to kick in, "EDP other" jumps yellow-red under Ring when throttling is going on, also log file attached to this thread - throttling started at '07:08:39' and at '07:10:03' i exit the game as it gets annoying to navigate even in the menu.




unclewebb said:


> The Configurable TDP Level 2 is 25 Watts and TDP Level 0 is 15 Watts. If you locked this to Level 0, that was not a good idea. The only way to unlock it is to do a full reboot and before you run ThrottleStop, delete the ThrottleStop.INI config file so you can start from square one. If you run ThrottleStop without deleting the INI file, it will just lock TDP Level to 0 again and again.



Here i have unlocked the TDP Level Control, should i lock this to some other value i.e. greater than 0
Why TDP level 1 still reports 7 under TDP, shouldn't it be unlocked or display 11 ? this is basically informing me about TDP level 1 Power limit in watts? And whats ratio at the end?
TDP level 2 reports 25 watts, Min Max is 0, so can i put '2' in TDP Level Control and Lock it  ?
TDP Level 0 is 15 Watts - the value in-front of Turbo Boost Power under TDP?



unclewebb said:


> The CPU compares TDP Level requests and uses the lowest power level requested.



Meaning CPU request for TDP, Gets TDP Level 0, 1, 2 Then sorts them base on power ascending i.e. 1) 7 Watts TDP level 1, 2) 15 Watts TDP level 0, 3) 25 Watts TDP level 2, and then use the first one



unclewebb said:


> In the Turbo Power Limits window, have you tried increasing the Package Power Long from 15 Watts to say 25 Watts? That would be the first thing a person should try. Do some quick testing with the built in TS Bench test. First open the Limit Reasons window and then open the TS Bench test. Watch for throttling. Anything lighting up in red when the CPU is fully loaded? Use a more demanding test like Prime95 if you need to prove this further.
> 
> Just some random thoughts. Post some ThrottleStop pics or log file data that shows throttling in progress



Here i set the Package Power Long to 25 Watts, should i enable "clamp" and lock it - i didnt lock and clamped here,



Ran the TS bench test with 256M, strangely the throttle kick in but doesn't lowers the multiplier and lowers the power by just 1~2 watts, while gaming power goes to 12~13 Watts max, but while running TS bench test power stays at 15 Watts, also i have attached log file of bench test.




unclewebb said:


> For under volting, for your CPU, both the CPU Cache and CPU Core need to be set equally in ThrottleStop. If you are under volting the Intel GPU then in ThrottleStop, you will also need to under volt the System Agent to the same value.



I did the undervolting as instructed, kindly guide if the under volting is done correctly by inspecting the below screenshot


One more thing i noticed today, the base speed is today 97.123 Mhz, lower than yesterday's 99.767 Mhz, i have no idea what caused this to go lower a little bit. Difference can be seen in the screenshots of today and yesterday

Looking forward for a kind response , apologies for my bad english. Dont mind if any part feels rude - its just my english.
BR


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## unclewebb (Aug 17, 2018)

Time for another wall of text.  Sometimes ThrottleStop will miscalculate your BCLK frequency.  99.767 MHz is usually the 100% correct value or extremely close to it.  97 MHz is way off.  If you see a BCLK frequency that is not quite right, click on the BCLK button and ThrottleStop will recalculate this value.  Click on the BCLK button 5 or 10 times and hopefully you see the correct value way more often than the wrong value.  When this is not displayed correctly, the multiplier will also be off by a similar percentage so for best results, make sure BCLK looks correct before testing.

Intel's low power U series CPUs have a feature called configurable TDP.  This is like having 3 completely different CPU models in a single CPU package.  Depending on CPU core temperature, power consumption and 101 other variables, the CPU can instantly switch to different TDP Levels.  The TDP Level power limits will override the traditional Package Power Long and Package Power Short variables.  Package Power Long might be set to 25 Watts but if the CPU enters TDP Level 1, the 25 Watt number will be ignored and the CPU will throttle performance so it does not exceed 7 Watts.  TDP Level switching happens continuously and is typically controlled by the Intel Dynamic Platform and Thermal Framework (DPTF) Driver.  Some users on some laptops have had great success by disabling and removing this driver and preventing Windows 10 from re-installing it.  Intel and Microsoft go out of their way to force this driver onto your system.  Start Google searching to learn more.  Removing this driver is one of the few options you have.  This driver takes precedence over ThrottleStop or Intel XTU so it is in control of your CPU speed.

C States 101.  When a CPU core has something to do, it enters the C0 C State.  When the task is complete, it enters C1 where it is immediately ready to do another task.  If no other tasks need to be immediately processed, each individual core will drop down to lower and lower power C States.  A core in C3 consumes less power than a core in C1.  Down to C6 and power drops again.  Still nothing to do and it will go into C7.  The Windows operating system is generally not that bad as long as it is setup correctly.  When Windows is idle, the 2 cores in a 7500U can spend 99% of their time in the low power C7 state doing absolutely nothing.  Spending only 1% of their time in the C0 state should be more than enough time to get all of the various Windows background tasks completed.  This is how CPUs save power.  In C7 the core clock is stopped and it is unplugged from the internal voltage rail so it is running at 0 MHz and 0 Volts.  When both cores simultaneously have nothing to do, the entire CPU package can further reduce power consumption and go into package C6 or C7, C8, C9 or C10.  

This all works great and life is wonderful and your laptop will run forever on battery power until you install one or two crappy programs or a poorly written driver and suddenly your laptop will not be using any of the low power C States.  The CPU will be constantly busy twiddling its thumbs.  You think it is idle but internally it is not.  A core in C0 spinning its wheels will consume more power and produce way more heat compared to a core in C7.  Your screenshot shows me that your CPU is not spending any time in any of the low power C States when idle.  That is a problem.  You need to open up the Task Manger, click on the Details tab and find out what is running on your computer in the background.  A 2 core CPU will perform way better if you can get it to stop wasting CPU cycles twiddling its thumbs doing nothing.  

I believe the TDP Level control in ThrottleStop is being ignored.  The Intel DPTF driver has precedence.  You can try checking this and setting this to 2 but I do not think there is any point until DPTF is removed.  You might as well set TDP Level to 0 in ThrottleStop and do not bother checking it.

Do not use the Clamp or Lock option in the TPL window for your package power limits.  TDP Level control is winning the war.



XuluX said:


> where can i set the TDP level in Intel XTU?


Adjustable TDP Level is not available in any version of Intel XTU as far as I know.  It has been deliberately hidden.  It is a horrible throttling scheme to keep Intel's customers (manufacturers) happy.



XuluX said:


> I feel like i am screwed after buying this machine


You are not the only one.  Way too many devices are grossly under performing because of this configurable TDP feature.  You pay good money for a laptop and end up with performance on par with a 10 year old laptop.  



XuluX said:


> I have AMD GPU


If the AMD GPU driver you are using does not support temperature monitoring then ThrottleStop will not be able to read your GPU temperature.  You would need to log separately with GPU-Z or a similar program.



XuluX said:


> Increasing TDP level 1 to 20W or 25W


No such luck.  TDP Level 1 is set to a fixed value of 7 Watts and there is no known way to change this.  Intel is extremely secretive about this feature.  

In many modern CPUs, PL1 and EDP Other usually both flash red at the exact same time.  PL1 is the real problem.  It is the long term power limit and this limit will instantly change if the CPU enters a different TDP Level.

I will check your log files out when I have the chance.  Thanks for your data.


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## XuluX (Aug 18, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> Time for another wall of text. Sometimes ThrottleStop will miscalculate your BCLK frequency. 99.767 MHz is usually the 100% correct value or extremely close to it. 97 MHz is way off. If you see a BCLK frequency that is not quite right, click on the BCLK button and ThrottleStop will recalculate this value. Click on the BCLK button 5 or 10 times and hopefully you see the correct value way more often than the wrong value. When this is not displayed correctly, the multiplier will also be off by a similar percentage so for best results, make sure BCLK looks correct before testing


Yes its back to 99.767Mhz



unclewebb said:


> Intel's low power U series CPUs have a feature called configurable TDP. This is like having 3 completely different CPU models in a single CPU package. Depending on CPU core temperature, power consumption and 101 other variables, the CPU can instantly switch to different TDP Levels. The TDP Level power limits will override the traditional Package Power Long and Package Power Short variables. Package Power Long might be set to 25 Watts but if the CPU enters TDP Level 1, the 25 Watt number will be ignored and the CPU will throttle performance so it does not exceed 7 Watts. TDP Level switching happens continuously and is typically controlled by the Intel Dynamic Platform and Thermal Framework (DPTF) Driver. Some users on some laptops have had great success by disabling and removing this driver and preventing Windows 10 from re-installing it. Intel and Microsoft go out of their way to force this driver onto your system. Start Google searching to learn more. Removing this driver is one of the few options you have. This driver takes precedence over ThrottleStop or Intel XTU so it is in control of your CPU speed.



On further investigating i witnessed the exact same behaviour as you mentioned, Set the package power long and package power short to 25Watts, as soon as the throttle turns on the package power long value is over written with 7 Watts and CPU power starts to decrease until below 7 Watts, I heard about couple of programs which can change the TDP level 1 value, its basically written in MSR register and can be changed but one needs to learn kernel level coding to do so, there are no GUI applications that can allow users to easily modify or disable TDP levels - on more searching i found due to security reasons there no GUI applications for adjusting TDP levels
I did uninstall the drivers but somehow they get back installed while windows was running (no restart) - dont know when these get re-installed and started throttling the CPU,
Although i got some luck in stopping throttling the CPU, now it takes 45-50 minutes for throttling to kick in, then after throttling for 5 minutes it goes back off while the game is running
I set the TDP level Control to 2 and Power package limit long to 25
One more solution i found, when throttling kicks in, set the Package power limit to 25 in XTU and hit apply, throttling goes away - but in online gaming its impossible to switch out of game and start configuring things



unclewebb said:


> If the AMD GPU driver you are using does not support temperature monitoring then ThrottleStop will not be able to read your GPU temperature. You would need to log separately with GPU-Z or a similar program.


I have GPU-Z for that which told me about GPU memory being used above 8GB while there were no games running



unclewebb said:


> C States 101. When a CPU core has something to do, it enters the C0 C State. When the task is complete, it enters C1 where it is immediately ready to do another task. If no other tasks need to be immediately processed, each individual core will drop down to lower and lower power C States. A core in C3 consumes less power than a core in C1. Down to C6 and power drops again. Still nothing to do and it will go into C7. The Windows operating system is generally not that bad as long as it is setup correctly. When Windows is idle, the 2 cores in a 7500U can spend 99% of their time in the low power C7 state doing absolutely nothing. Spending only 1% of their time in the C0 state should be more than enough time to get all of the various Windows background tasks completed. This is how CPUs save power. In C7 the core clock is stopped and it is unplugged from the internal voltage rail so it is running at 0 MHz and 0 Volts. When both cores simultaneously have nothing to do, the entire CPU package can further reduce power consumption and go into package C6 or C7, C8, C9 or C10.



I will look into this later, i know my battery life is getting lower day by day, its only a month i bought this laptop and now only pain is what i have. today i also found a bug in AMD GPU memory - it keeps occupied even when there are no games running, latest drivers are installed but i guess i need to clean install the drivers.

Question about the Lenovo laptop with a 7500U, how did you get it work without letting it to throttle ?
Thanks for the guidance


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## unclewebb (Aug 18, 2018)

The Lenovo I have with the 7500U does not use TDP Level control so there are none of the problems like you are having.  Individual manufacturers get to pick and choose what CPU throttling features they want to use.  Lenovo chose not to use TDP Level control. 

The problem with trying to control TDP Level is that this value is written in multiple locations and the lowest value is then used.  ThrottleStop only modifies the TDP Level value in the MSR register.  There is a duplicate TDP Level value in the Memory Mapped IO (MMIO) that ThrottleStop does not have access to.  There could be a third duplicate value that I have no idea how to access. 

Try using RW Everything to access the MMIO value.  The TDP Level memory location is at FED15F50.






The laptop I am currently on does not use TDP Level control.  RWEverything shows that this register is locked to TDP Level 0.  You want yours to be locked to TDP Level 2 so instead of

80000000

it should show

80000002

Simple stuff.  I would use ThrottleStop to set TDP Level to 2 as well.  Try this first, see how it goes and then maybe lock this register using ThrottleStop and see if that is necessary or helps at all.

If you have something constantly running in the background and the CPU cores are never idle long enough to use the low power C States, battery run time will be reduced to a small fraction of what it could be.  Put that on your things to do list.  Using the Task Manager and the ThrottleStop C State data to help track down high CPU use programs will free up more CPU resources for gaming.

Edit - You need to run this little program to manage Windows 10 downloads.

https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/wumt_wrapper_script.html

You should be able to use this to prevent the stupid Intel DPTF driver from constantly being installed.


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## XuluX (Aug 18, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> Try using RW Everything to access the MMIO value. The TDP Level memory location is at FED15F50.


FED15F50 did not looked like one in the picture although the address exists andit already has 80000002 value is on 00 row, as shown below




But i found FED15F00 from the screenshot you shared,





unclewebb said:


> If you have something constantly running in the background and the CPU cores are never idle long enough to use the low power C States, battery run time will be reduced to a small fraction of what it could be. Put that on your things to do list. Using the Task Manager and the ThrottleStop C State data to help track down high CPU use programs will free up more CPU resources for gaming.



Surely my next task would be this, as battery shows no more than 1.5 hrs backup time, as this a new laptop and it should show more than 3hrs backup time.



unclewebb said:


> The Lenovo I have with the 7500U does not use TDP Level control so there are none of the problems like you are having. Individual manufacturers get to pick and choose what CPU throttling features they want to use. Lenovo chose not to use TDP Level control.


So basically dell wants its consumers to feel the pain, intel has started using fancy names like 6th Gen, 7th Gen, 8th Gen - this is what they meant by 7th gen that in order to reduce the power consumption and heat lower the performance when needed, this way CPU will stay cool, fan wont make a sound, all the heat and sounds will be made by consumer.

I also queried this issue will Dell as the laptop is in warranty, they asked me to about event logs and what kind of game are you try to run, then after viewing the logs informed that the laptop is working as expected and shared a link of "inside game graphics setting" with lowest settings possible, i told them i am already running the game with lowest settings possible.

Mean while i also raised this with intel guys, they told me not to undervolt - overclock - or root the CPU as it might damage the CPU and warranty might be void if i do so, as on the other hand they themselves said that CPU can withstand 105C and did the same thing by sharing game settings. My eyes are burning as this issue is taking day and night

Thanks for the link, Let me figure out how to prevent DPTF from installing itself automatically, will inform if i get success.


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## unclewebb (Aug 19, 2018)

Sad situation.  Manufacturers are not willing to take any responsibility for the defective products they sell.  When you complain, you get the runaround.  If you try to take matters into your own hands and try to fix this problem, your warranty will be void.  Imagine if automotive companies offered a similar user experience.  Heads would roll and companies would go bankrupt.  The computer industry gets away with murder without any consumer protection agencies doing anything to help out.

Your first RWEverything Memory screenshot shows that you have the Address box set to FED15F50 so the very first entry in that table shows the TDP Level memory location.
It shows 80000002 so it is locked to TDP Level 2.

The second screenshot has the Address box set the same as my screenshot.  FED15F00 so you have to go down the page to the 50 line where once again it shows the same thing.
80000002

I believe PECI is the third location where this can be set but I have zero documentation or ability to access this final location.  If the third location is set to TDP Level 1 then the CPU will use the 7 Watt limit regardless of anything else.  This one could be triggered by a separate motherboard temperature sensor.  Blowing a fan in that direction might be enough to keep it from triggering severe TDP Level throttling.  A meat locker is a good test environment.



XuluX said:


> Let me figure out how to prevent DPTF from installing itself automatically


That seems to be the only option.  Hope you can come up with a solution.  Average Joe consumers should not have to become rocket scientists just so they can use their computers at a reasonable and rated speed.


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## XuluX (Aug 19, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> C States 101. When a CPU core has something to do, it enters the C0 C State. When the task is complete, it enters C1 where it is immediately ready to do another task. If no other tasks need to be immediately processed, each individual core will drop down to lower and lower power C States. A core in C3 consumes less power than a core in C1. Down to C6 and power drops again. Still nothing to do and it will go into C7. The Windows operating system is generally not that bad as long as it is setup correctly. When Windows is idle, the 2 cores in a 7500U can spend 99% of their time in the low power C7 state doing absolutely nothing. Spending only 1% of their time in the C0 state should be more than enough time to get all of the various Windows background tasks completed. This is how CPUs save power. In C7 the core clock is stopped and it is unplugged from the internal voltage rail so it is running at 0 MHz and 0 Volts. When both cores simultaneously have nothing to do, the entire CPU package can further reduce power consumption and go into package C6 or C7, C8, C9 or C10.


Here i got the C states working, some G.exe was utilizing the CPU that keeps it in C0, battery times increased from 2 hrz to 7 hrz and i was like woaaaahhh :-O



unclewebb said:


> That seems to be the only option. Hope you can come up with a solution. Average Joe consumers should not have to become rocket scientists just so they can use their computers at a reasonable and rated speed.



I have successfully prevented windows from installing DPTF drivers even after restarting windows although it shows me notification like "We can't finish downloading your update" and "A driver needs to be install for the windows to be stable", which is strange that i never saw these messages before, but windows have to live with these conditions

 After this i ran the game for 1 hour while monitoring if the throttle kicks in, the CPU ran at ~13Watts (sometimes jumped to 16~17Watts) at 82C max but throttle didnt kicked in, then i removed the undervolting and rerun the game for another hour, CPU got ran at 15Watts  (sometimes jumped to 16~17Watts) 88C but no throttling occurred, i know i am stating CPU power and temperature as threshold of throttling whereas these values might not be used in the throttling equation but i can only benchmark these values for throttling, i guess now the driver cant inform the CPU to request for TDP levels as the values of "overpower" or "overclocking" or "threshold temperature" reached.



unclewebb said:


> I believe PECI is the third location where this can be set but I have zero documentation or ability to access this final location. If the third location is set to TDP Level 1 then the CPU will use the 7 Watt limit regardless of anything else. This one could be triggered by a separate motherboard temperature sensor. Blowing a fan in that direction might be enough to keep it from triggering severe TDP Level throttling. A meat locker is a good test environment.



Well i cant arrange a meat locker but so far i can run the game without setting TDP level in PECI. We'll see if to investigate for PECI value but until then PECI can have TDP level 1 value



unclewebb said:


> The Lenovo I have with the 7500U does not use TDP Level control so there are none of the problems like you are having. Individual manufacturers get to pick and choose what CPU throttling features they want to use. Lenovo chose not to use TDP Level control.



Well its a dream for inspiron 15 5567 to live the life of Lenovo with a 7500U, the seller told me to buy Lenovo in the same price, may be the harddrive capacity was lower than 5567 but then i was loyal to dell as never faced these issues before, my previous dell had exact opposite behaviour of 5567, they made fan noises, got heated up that even keyboard got hot but never compromised on performance.

Another thing with my GPU driver was that it was buggy i.e. memory doesn't flushes after GPU is not being utilized, AMD admitted that, i updated the drivers - now it shows me Radeon TM R7 440 whereas i have Radeon TM R7 445, also raised this with AMD support, they replied "its not expected to display this information, the driver is working fine but the display information is wrong, we will fix when we roll out our next update". After this response i was like is the computer industry on cheap drugs or something.



unclewebb said:


> Sad situation. Manufacturers are not willing to take any responsibility for the defective products they sell. When you complain, you get the runaround. If you try to take matters into your own hands and try to fix this problem, your warranty will be void. Imagine if automotive companies offered a similar user experience. Heads would roll and companies would go bankrupt. The computer industry gets away with murder without any consumer protection agencies doing anything to help out.



Automotive industry have difference set of processes while making a automobile, they put the customer experience above everything because they know their necks are on the line if anything goes south. Computer Manufacturers can still put customer experience first, just put options in the BIOS menu about each and everything i.e. enable/disable TDP/PL, threshold value for throttling to kick in, what parameters should be put in the equation for throttling .. etc and description with each settings informing of what it does, consumers with layman knowledge would not bother touching those settings but if needed the user can always use google to assist in those settings, one the other hand a person with intermediate knowledge can change those settings according to what is desired. Manufacturers can also put warning messages on specific settings i.e. "if you do that CPU temperature might rise and damage your PC" a layman would never put on those settings where the warning message appears but a question will be asked "if it damages the CPU why are the manufacturers allowing us to set this?" and these type of questions most manufacturers dont want to hear, along with these questions, this question also haunts the manufacturers that "why my laptop makes too much fan noises, why my laptop is heating up" Answer: "That's probably because laptops vents are blocked by putting it on bed for too long or laptop is not elevated"- but this is where the intel came up with solution of "Generation idea" i.e. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th gen processor, compromising on the performance as they experience most of the consumers dont know as thier CPU limits its performance as they are not able to fully utilize the CPU. I paid a handful of money to buy this machine, and i dont bother if the fan makes sound or the laptop is heated up as long as its performing at capacity because i am paying money to get performance otherwise why should i go for a i7 processor instead i should buy a i3 with half the price.

All the internet in the world couldnt help me but your help did what i was trying to do for days. Many many thanks for the support. I will test the throttling 1 last time and post screenshots of TS while the game is running and no throttling is occurred.

Once again, thanks for the support, will be in touch 
Cheers

Well i tested the throttling for the last time and interesting outcome were witnessed that after an hour (1hr+) throttling appeared but it could not limit the power to 6~7Watts, it remained at 14~15Watts, i guess by disabling the DPTF driver, CPU cannot request for TDP levels hence cannot set PL1 to 7 Watts but can apply throttling at PL1 which is already set to 15Watts.

Further more i looked into the TS logs and saw that for 0 to 1Hr throttling was jumping between between on and off and could not effect the value of power but where throttling occurred for longer period the multipliers got decreased from 34~35 to 32~33 but still in the turbo boost range.

I hope this thread help those who are facing similar issue, although the name of this thread is very confusing.


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## unclewebb (Aug 19, 2018)

XuluX said:


> Here i got the C states working


Your screenshot shows a big improvement but you still have something running in the background that is interfering with your CPU cores going into and staying in C7.  My screenshot shows 99.3% and 98.5% in C7.  Your screenshot shows 50.2% and 44.3% in C7.  Your cores are only spending half as much time in C7 as they should be.  Keep searching and you will find a poorly written program or driver keeping your CPU active in C0 when it should not be doing this.

It sounds like removing the DPTF driver has fixed your TDP Level problem.  That driver is terrible and is known to cause severe throttling problems.  Intel or Microsoft might think the DPTF driver is wonderful but it is not.

The multiplier and CPU speed is staying nice and high now.  Not quite perfect but very close to it.  Most people can live with a little bit of throttling.  This is much better than severe throttling.   



XuluX said:


> thanks for the support


You are most welcome.  I am happy to hear that your laptop is running much better.  Hopefully someone else with this exact same problem will find this information.  There are many, many computers that are only running at a fraction of their rated speed.  Sad industry.


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