# MSI R9 280X GAMING 3 GB



## W1zzard (Oct 8, 2013)

The new Radeon R9 280X is based on the AMD HD 7970 GHz Edition design. MSI has taken their highly successful dual-fan cooler from the GAMING Series and put it on the new card. They also included software voltage control and an overclock out-of-the-box.

*Show full review*


----------



## Zen_ (Oct 8, 2013)

A gaming edition card that overheats...while gaming. Well played MSI!


----------



## erocker (Oct 8, 2013)

Ouch! So this  card looks like a reference 7970 pcb, possibly with an extra vrm?

Where can one get those 13.11 beta drivers?


----------



## 1d10t (Oct 8, 2013)

Zen_ said:


> A gaming edition card that overheats...while gaming. Well played MSI!



not to mention unimpressive power draw and maximum clock.Well,what do i expect?this just a complete salvage 7970.i thought that 28nm had mature process this card could better in performance.


----------



## Arrakis9 (Oct 8, 2013)

It seems to me like AMD is struggling for a foothold in the market, unless they really make some huge breakthrough with their APU's and getting much more powerful gpu's under the hood i really don't see them in the near future which would be bad for everyone competition wise


----------



## PopcornMachine (Oct 8, 2013)

A bit better than the 7970GHZ and $100 cheaper than it and the 770.  

Would be the card for me at the moment.


----------



## HumanSmoke (Oct 8, 2013)

PopcornMachine said:


> A bit better than the 7970GHZ and $100 cheaper than it and the 770.
> 
> Would be the card for me at the moment.


I would have thought what is basically the same card for $280 with a bundle that lets you choose what games you get (rather than predetermined by AMD with the R9) would be the better deal personally


----------



## Lionheart (Oct 8, 2013)




----------



## PopcornMachine (Oct 8, 2013)

HumanSmoke said:


> I would have thought what is basically the same card for $280 with a bundle that lets you choose what games you get (rather than predetermined by AMD with the R9) would be the better deal personally



I'm usually wrong about everything I post it seems.  

Have fun with your non-GHz edition 7970 and games I either already have or don't want.

The GHz cards are priced at Newegg from $370 to $400.  But I wouldn't be wrong then.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 8, 2013)

it has tremendous overclocking ability but not with its cooler. 
Oh MSI, seriously?



1d10t said:


> not to mention unimpressive power draw and maximum clock.Well,what do i expect?this just a complete salvage 7970.i thought that 28nm had mature process this card could better in performance.



well, wait for R9-290X then.. (cfx + full waterblock = win  )

edit : added comparation with ASUS R9-280X DC II TOP


----------



## Xzibit (Oct 8, 2013)

If I remember right there was an early leaked Fan Noise test done on a few R9 280Xs.  This MSI model had an annoying hum to it (coil whine).  The Asus was quiet.

One thing I noticed is MSI seams to be the only one so far to not adapt the reference R9 280x display output layout.

*MSI R9 280X Noise test*









*ASUS R9 280X Noise test *


----------



## Enterprise24 (Oct 8, 2013)

In Thailand (1$ = 31 Baht)

R7-250 cost 128$
R7-260X cost 171-187$
R9-270X cost 258$
R9-280X cost 355-403$
R9-290X cost 791$


----------



## the54thvoid (Oct 8, 2013)

So, confirmed then. R9 280X versus GTX770 is 7970 (ghz) versus 680. Whoopty do. This is boring. Seriously, just read the reviews W1zz posted 1-2 years ago from both AMD and Nvidia. At least AMD pricing is better.


----------



## rawad (Oct 8, 2013)

the card is good , its just the MSI's version that is really bad .
i saw the review of the ASUS 280x and its a very good card with low temps and low noise .
+ its about 80-100 cheapers then a GTX 770 and equal in performance , i think thats a WIN!


----------



## alwayssts (Oct 8, 2013)

All I want is one with a shorter pcb, even if it clocks relatively poorly in comparison to others.  It would still be a better deal/card than a 760/670.  

They can cool the memory/vrm with plastic like xfx, or apparently have a cooler that sucks at life like MSI...I don't care.  Just scrunch those ram chips and that asic together a half-inch shorter, give me voltage control/unlocked clocks, and I will be a happy dude.

I imagine it will happen at some point, but the fact it isn't at launch when this chip is 2 years old, 7970 has some designs like this, and it's competition more-or-less (unless you really want to compare it to 770) prides itself on this is sad.  That used to be the whole point of a new gen...the last gen's performance (more-or-less) in a smaller form-factor (+/- a few watts to fit one pci-e power spec lower) at one notch down the pricing scale.  1 out of 3 ain't bad, I guess.

Dig the pricing/performance relative to the competition, but it sure would be nice to find something better than Pitcairn to put in my htpcs other than an artificially-limited OG 7970.


----------



## HumanSmoke (Oct 8, 2013)

PopcornMachine said:


> HumanSmoke said:
> 
> 
> > I would have thought what is basically the same card for $280 with a bundle that lets you choose what games you get (rather than predetermined by AMD with the R9) would be the better deal *personally*
> ...


Expressing a personal opinion on my preference equals a personal attack on you? 
Last time I got that kind of overreaction the person I was communicating with later apologised and put it down to an oestrogen imbalance 

Didn't realize that the GHz Edition was such a vast improvement over base 7970. I stand corrected.


----------



## Sihastru (Oct 8, 2013)

There's quite a bit of confusion around the "Never Settle Bundle" being included or *not being included* with the 200 series cards. Other review sites around have explicitly put in their reviews that the *Never Settle Bundle is NOT included with the 200 series cards*.

Looking at the MSI box art, there's no mention about any game bundle. So what's the truth here?


----------



## buggalugs (Oct 8, 2013)

I was wondering if other reviewers have had the card before wizard. As we know they like to take off the cooler and refitting it properly can be a problem if you don't have the thermal pad thingys they stick to the VRM.

 Just doesn't seem normal in this day and age to have a VRM over 110 degrees. Even the CPU temp seems high, MSI recent coolers keep the temps in the 60s usually.

 Something doesn't sound right. I cant see how they would go backwards with cooling performance when its the same chip as last gen but more optimised?


----------



## dj-electric (Oct 8, 2013)

I think it is more about the circuitry. I own a GTX 780 with this cooler and everything runs flawlessly and cool under any load.


----------



## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Oct 8, 2013)

Arrakis+9 said:


> It seems to me like AMD is struggling for a foothold in the market, unless they really make some huge breakthrough with their APU's and getting much more powerful gpu's under the hood i really don't see them in the near future which would be bad for everyone competition wise


Nah.. doubt if they are struggling. They pretty much already have a solid foothold in the modern market since R700.


----------



## Phobia9651 (Oct 8, 2013)

Sihastru said:


> There's quite a bit of confusion around the "Never Settle Bundle" being included or *not being included* with the 200 series cards. Other review sites around have explicitly put in their reviews that the *Never Settle Bundle is NOT included with the 200 series cards*.
> 
> Looking at the MSI box art, there's no mention about any game bundle. So what's the truth here?



Bit-tech stated: "As for Never Settle, details are still sparse other than that it's set to continue one way or another."
I'm kind of curious as well, Never Settle is definitely a game changer (no pun intended). For me it means the difference between upgrading or not upgrading. Though the games I want in there are all November releases, so I guess we got time...


----------



## dj-electric (Oct 8, 2013)

I work at a store, we just have codes from AMD in the computer to give to customers when they purchase a certain card or another, nothing is mentioned on the box.


----------



## Phobia9651 (Oct 8, 2013)

Dj-ElectriC said:


> I work at a store, we just have codes from AMD in the computer to give to customers when they purchase a certain card or another, nothing is mentioned on the box.



Never Settle Forever still only mentions HD7000 series cards: http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/never-settle/Pages/nsreloadedforever.aspx
Perhaps we will get the next 'version' of Never Settle announced soon.


----------



## arnoo1 (Oct 8, 2013)

wow amd claiming it's so much faster ridicules more points in firestrike, and again it sucks again also with cpu's , wow amd step up your gaming if you want to keep up with the big boys


----------



## Protagonist (Oct 8, 2013)

Lionheart said:


> http://img.techpowerup.org/131008/y-u-no3.jpg



This should explain some more
http://www.techspot.com/news/54250-...ue-to-overheating-other-technical-issues.html


And how comes the GPU-Z screen shot here: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/R9_280X_Gaming/29.html shows release date as being December 22, 2011??? they forgot to change that even though we all know its based on the 7970GHz


----------



## Initialised (Oct 8, 2013)

So can the 280 3GB CFX with a 7970 since it's basically a rebadge?

Or should I just get another 7970 instead and skip the Rx 200 series once the price drops on the 'old tech'?


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 8, 2013)

arnoo1 said:


> wow amd claiming it's so much faster ridicules more points in firestrike, and again it sucks again also with cpu's , wow amd step up your gaming if you want to keep up with the big boys



have you ever read the title of this review ? i guess not..
brilliant..



Protagonist said:


> This should explain some more
> http://www.techspot.com/news/54250-...ue-to-overheating-other-technical-issues.html



OOT :
i wonder how much nvidia pays them off to dump amd's gpu  

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2052...ion-to-so-publicly-dump-amd-video-cards-.html


----------



## AsRock (Oct 8, 2013)

Once again nice review, although pricing on the 7970 can be a lot cheaper than $375 ($310) which has got to mess up price\performance numbers.


----------



## HR_The_Butcher (Oct 8, 2013)

So, CF supported between 7970 and 280X?


----------



## Assimilator (Oct 8, 2013)

Initialised said:


> So can the 280 3GB CFX with a 7970 since it's basically a rebadge?





HR_The_Butcher said:


> So, CF supported between 7970 and 280X?



*Yes:* http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1784907


----------



## buggalugs (Oct 8, 2013)

Protagonist said:


> This should explain some more
> http://www.techspot.com/news/54250-...ue-to-overheating-other-technical-issues.html
> 
> 
> And how comes the GPU-Z screen shot here: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/R9_280X_Gaming/29.html shows release date as being December 22, 2011??? they forgot to change that even though we all know its based on the 7970GHz



 That's bullcrap....I don't buy it. "overheating GPUs"?? How come none of my AMD GPUs overheat? I've never had any real driver issues either.

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/07/nvidias-program-get-oems-like-origin-pc-dump-amd-called-tier-0/

http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/07/nvidias-program-get-oems-like-origin-pc-dump-amd-called-tier-0/


 Nvidia has done this crap before, they are obviously panicking over R9, they got nothing until next year.


----------



## chinmi (Oct 8, 2013)

buggalugs said:


> That's bullcrap....I don't buy it. "overheating GPUs"?? How come none of my AMD GPUs overheat? I've never had any real driver issues either.
> 
> http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/07/nvidias-program-get-oems-like-origin-pc-dump-amd-called-tier-0/
> 
> ...



same here... my couple of years old 6990 never overheat too... why is "HEAT" and "power consumption" is so much of a concern in the states ?

I mean an extra 100w - 200w total system usage won't bring lots of difference in electrical bill per year... if you can spent $1000,- ++ or maybe more on a pc, why does paying a couple of dollars more electrical bill is much of a concern ??


----------



## buggalugs (Oct 8, 2013)

Dj-ElectriC said:


> I think it is more about the circuitry. I own a GTX 780 with this cooler and everything runs flawlessly and cool under any load.



I don't think so and this review from anandtech kind of proves the point I made earlier. Unless MSI has done something dodgy with the VRM but there is no way they would release an "twinfrosr" brand with those kind of numbers. 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7400/the-radeon-r9-280x-review-feat-asus-xfx/20

 They have a few different versions of the 280X and they are all much much cooler. Even cooler than Nvidia 770 and 760.

 Something is not right. Gawd I don't know who to trust these days.....theres gotta be something wrong with Wizzards sample.


 On the Origin thing, I find it highly suspicious that they would drop AMD GPUS just before the release of the 290X. A card that will cream anything Nvidia has....and Nvidia has no answer for until next year. What a time to drop it? Surely with the performance of the 290X there would be plenty of rich guys wanting systems with the fastest card in the world.?? Of all the times to drop AMD they drop them on the release of a monster card, with new technology, DX11.2, trueaudio, mantle, new drivers etc?? lol Its no accident this is happening now with reviews of AMD cards hitting the internet.

 LOL NVidia is up to their old games.

 And its no accident


----------



## 1d10t (Oct 8, 2013)

SIGSEGV said:


> well, wait for R9-290X then.. (cfx + full waterblock = win  )



Yup...and i will be starve and homeless for the next 6 months 



Xzibit said:


> If I remember right there was an early leaked Fan Noise test done on a few R9 280Xs.  This MSI model had an annoying hum to it (coil whine).  The Asus was quiet.
> One thing I noticed is MSI seams to be the only one so far to not adapt the reference R9 280x display output layout.



this also explain why people complaining about whining coil,they blamed chip maker not a board maker :shadedshu



rawad said:


> the card is good , its just the MSI's version that is really bad .
> i saw the review of the ASUS 280x and its a very good card with low temps and low noise .
> + its about 80-100 cheapers then a GTX 770 and equal in performance , i think thats a WIN!



+1 to this,XFX and Asus makes better R9 280X 



arnoo1 said:


> wow amd claiming it's so much faster ridicules more points in firestrike, and again it sucks again also with cpu's , wow amd step up your gaming if you want to keep up with the big boys



exactly!this card is nothing compare to your mighty card 



Protagonist said:


> This should explain some more
> http://www.techspot.com/news/54250-...ue-to-overheating-other-technical-issues.html



dude...never trust a marketer to explain technical description


----------



## Initialised (Oct 8, 2013)

Assimilator said:


> *Yes:* http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1784907


Sweet, thank you AMD.

I wonder why NV don't let you run a 770 with a 680?


----------



## mikeq6648 (Oct 8, 2013)

*renamed and refreshed Bios old card?*

few months ago, i've planned to replace my MSI HD5850 OC. one of my choice is the HD7970 Ghz, then i shifted to MSI TF GTX770 4GB. This 770 runs quiet nice with low noise and low temperature. But when i read the reviews of R9 280X. I was diappointed that the performance is just so close to GTX 770. and those Mantle, True Audio is not mentioned in the R9 280X! where are they? just launched in R9 290X?


----------



## adulaamin (Oct 8, 2013)

Initialised said:


> Sweet, thank you AMD.
> 
> I wonder why NV don't let you run a 770 with a 680?



So you'll be forced to buy another 770 if you want to SLI...


----------



## mikeq6648 (Oct 8, 2013)

adulaamin said:


> So you'll be forced to buy another 770 if you want to SLI...



haha, GTX 770 is also a renamed  GTX 680 !


----------



## Zubasa (Oct 8, 2013)

Protagonist said:


> This should explain some more
> http://www.techspot.com/news/54250-...ue-to-overheating-other-technical-issues.html
> 
> 
> And how comes the GPU-Z screen shot here: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/R9_280X_Gaming/29.html shows release date as being December 22, 2011??? they forgot to change that even though we all know its based on the 7970GHz


You know that the release date is not read from the GPU itself but just coded into GPU-Z right?


----------



## Yellow&Nerdy? (Oct 8, 2013)

Well, it's pretty much exactly what Nvidia did with the GTX 770: take the previous gen flag-ship, and overclock it. Considering that it costs the same as the "non GHz" version of the 7970, but performs the same as the GHz edition, it's not a bad card. At least it can be considered a "upgrade" compared to the last gen card at the same price point, unlike the R9 270X.


----------



## BiggieShady (Oct 8, 2013)

mikeq6648 said:


> haha, GTX 770 is also a renamed  GTX 680 !



I could only wish R9 280X is to 7970 what GTX 770 is to GTX 680 ... price wise and performance wise


----------



## Prima.Vera (Oct 8, 2013)

Common guys, the price is great. 1 Year ago, the same performance cost double.
Cheers!


----------



## Yeoman (Oct 8, 2013)

I don't get the overheating...I'm kinda shocked. Looking at reviews of all 7970's (particularly the ghz ed/beatly clocked ones), they run in the 70-75 Celsius range usually. That and the fact that coolers like MSI's twin frozr IV seem better than those 1/2 yr old designs...I'm kinda shocked and confused. :/ 

The way MSI's cooler handles the 770/780 for example, its so quiet and usually temps are really low. Just seems odd.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 8, 2013)

I didnt read the article or thread outside of what is above me, so my apologies if this was mentioned, but MSI just sent reviewers a new bios that mucks with the fan control early yesterday... so perhaps that is the problem that W1z did not get a chance to flash to it (or mention it I guess)? Mine just arrived yesterday so I haven't had a chance to see what is up.


----------



## NeoXF (Oct 8, 2013)

One question tho... what's with those horrible Review Scores? Are you kidding me? nVidia's cards literally only once in 20 reviews get scores lower than 90/100, but now, NOT ONE of these AMD (almost) game-changing cards get even a 9?. I don't want to go into details, the review itself seems pretty good (like most TPU reviews), but the rating at the end... really?  


This series of video cards do what is best above everything... start a chain reaction of price drops. And for that alone, I'd rate them straight up 10s.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 8, 2013)

That is the problem with a number rating system...especially like this. It is just waaaay too granular using tenths of points. Granular would be fine, but there is nothing posted I know of to clearly distinguish between points. What is the difference between an 8.1 and 8.2 GPU? Personally, I ignore all numbers like this on any site unless it is clearly defined (read: Oklahoma Wolf's reviews where he mentions what he takes off points for which is the same for each review) and just look at the details. 

That said, I have no idea what is '(almost) game changing' about the 7970... oops, R9 280X. It is a rebrand for pete's sake. It is the same as a 7970.


----------



## a_ump (Oct 8, 2013)

this is a bummer. sort of. i'm assuming R 290/290x will be the "8950/8970" of this gen so one new chip and all rebrands drop the price on what used to be the top 4 cards from AMD. Not terrible i just miss the time when a whole new line-up was made from bottom to top. Granted i know from "bottom" is kind of pointless because of APU's and intel's HD graphics getting much better, but at least from $100 cards up i'd love to see a new line of cards.

I mean this is still good, just not as good and a bit of a let down to what i was hoping. New naming scheme i'd at least figure new chips, oh wells


----------



## suraswami (Oct 8, 2013)

Lionheart said:


> http://img.techpowerup.org/131008/y-u-no3.jpg



Because I am Red and I am AMD!


----------



## Hilux SSRG (Oct 8, 2013)

NeoXF said:


> One question tho... what's with those horrible Review Scores? Are you kidding me? nVidia's cards literally only once in 20 reviews get scores lower than 90/100, but now, NOT ONE of these AMD (almost) game-changing cards get even a 9?. I don't want to go into details, the review itself seems pretty good (like most TPU reviews), but the rating at the end... really?



The score I think is based on the review of the MSI r9 280X Gaming 3GB board and not the stock AMD R9 280X.  W1zzard correct me if I'm wrong.  Lower score is due to higher noise levels and poor vrm cooling.


----------



## Recus (Oct 8, 2013)

SIGSEGV said:


> have you ever read the title of this review ? i guess not..
> brilliant..
> 
> 
> ...





buggalugs said:


> That's bullcrap....I don't buy it. "overheating GPUs"?? How come none of my AMD GPUs overheat? I've never had any real driver issues either.
> 
> http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/07/nvidias-program-get-oems-like-origin-pc-dump-amd-called-tier-0/
> 
> ...



Looks like you forgot something. Club3D To Focus Exclusively on AMD Products


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 8, 2013)

Hilux SSRG said:


> The score I think is based on the review of the MSI r9 280X Gaming 3GB board and not the stock AMD R9 280X.  W1zzard correct me if I'm wrong.  Lower score is due to higher noise levels and poor vrm cooling.


Good thinking... did he review the reference card and cooler (genuine question, I am not sure)? If not, I sure hope it wasn't based off that!


----------



## SimpleTECH (Oct 8, 2013)

erocker said:


> Where can one get those 13.11 beta drivers?



http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/AMDCatalyst13-11WINBetaDriver.aspx


----------



## Casecutter (Oct 8, 2013)

I ask still why wait till now not that any of that matters?   Did AMD figure they had to wait for Hawaii was ready?  In theory AMD could've done this back when Nvidia went with their 770.  I suppose now… why care? 

So these have a PowerTune Boost just like the had Ghz, or is this just straight clocked?  While if on PowerTune it's not even revised like Bonaire using "eight states".  What seems strange if identical, how do we explain the some 15% reduction in Peak consumption while way out of bounds on Furmark (max).  This MSI gaming even with whatever heat issues it has it still is 15% less than the reference 7970 Ghz (Avg/Peak).  If heat is wasted energy that could indicate there's some perhaps even slightly better percentage still for some other AIB's renditions?  

Release drivers hardly picked-up sporadically if nothing - no jump,  not near what I might have thought AMD could/would show with. I hoped they had at least a driver that brought all GCN based card a few percentage points, but this 13.11 Beta contributed little except Hitman, Metro, Star Craft.  

I'm awaiting the Gigabyte version review, I find their hardware implementation enhances without the hoopla.  As with their GTX770 they provide a nice OC Windforce and while release price is higher they will normally offer a great board at a price that settles out fairly quick.  

Overall this did NOTHING to change the landscape, Nvidia will still stay complacent and 770/760 pricing won't change.


----------



## Frick (Oct 8, 2013)

I wonder how much they'll be here.. I'm seriously thinking about upgrading.


----------



## PopcornMachine (Oct 8, 2013)

Would like to see crossfire performance.  I know it's basically a 7970 GHz, but 13.11 beta might be different.


----------



## dom99 (Oct 8, 2013)

In the uk the msi 280x is on pre-order for £250, same as the 7970 ghz edition, I don't understand why it scores lower than 7970 in some situations, thought it was the same chip


----------



## Crap Daddy (Oct 8, 2013)

dom99 said:


> In the uk the msi 280x is on pre-order for £250, same as the 7970 ghz edition, I don't understand why it scores lower than 7970 in some situations, thought it was the same chip



Time my friend. As you get older you score less.


----------



## W1zzard (Oct 8, 2013)

> Hilux SSRG said:
> 
> 
> > The score I think is based on the review of the MSI r9 280X Gaming 3GB board and not the stock AMD R9 280X.  W1zzard correct me if I'm wrong.  Lower score is due to higher noise levels and poor vrm cooling.
> ...



that's correct. the score is for the msi board. if there were less noise and no vrm overheating the score would be much higher.

amd did not send a reference board to me (or anyone i think)



Protagonist said:


> And how comes the GPU-Z screen shot here: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/R9_280X_Gaming/29.html shows release date as being December 22, 2011??? they forgot to change that even though we all know its based on the 7970GHz



the issue is that amd didn't even bother changing the device id, which so far has uniquely identifed every card series that i can think of.

i will probably add a special code path for the release date of 280X in the next version


----------



## The Von Matrices (Oct 8, 2013)

urza26 said:


> Bit-tech stated: "As for Never Settle, details are still sparse other than that it's set to continue one way or another."
> I'm kind of curious as well, Never Settle is definitely a game changer (no pun intended). For me it means the difference between upgrading or not upgrading. Though the games I want in there are all November releases, so I guess we got time...



The game bundle will not be extended until the 7000 series inventory is depleted.  It basically kills any reason to get the rebranded 280X while cheaper 7970s with bundled games are available.

The question I have is: is there any hope of flashing the 280X VBIOS onto a 7970?  I'd like to take advantage of the three TMDS outputs (it would eliminate screen tearing from having one monitor on Displayport).  The only restriction the AMD states is that all three monitors must be identical, which means it is compatible with my system should a VBIOS flash be possible.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 8, 2013)

[H] forums said they tried and failed and had some bricked cards. They did mention you could CFx a 280x and 7970 though with success.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Oct 8, 2013)

Prima.Vera said:


> Common guys, the price is great. 1 Year ago, the same performance cost double.
> Cheers!



No, one year ago 7970s were selling for $399-$449 (I bought one then).  That's far from "double."  You have to go back two years to get even close to "double" with the 7970 selling for $549.



EarthDog said:


> [H] forums said they tried and failed and had some bricked cards. They did mention you could CFx a 280x and 7970 though with success.



I can understand this not working if they tried swapping BIOS between different manufacturers due to the different auxiliary chips used, but it seems like within the same manufacturer the 7970 and 280X designs are identical even down to the memory chips, VRM controllers, and other auxiliary chips.  I don't think there's been enough testing to determine this one way or the other.  The people who have flashed it tried the one 280X VBIOS on TPU's database and had failures, which is not surprising since no one had any clue what PCB that BIOS corresponded to.  Once retail cards' BIOS are uploaded then I think there will be a good chance of compatibility within the same manufacturer.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 8, 2013)

They mentioned which bios they used? Interesting.


----------



## SIGSEGV (Oct 9, 2013)

1d10t said:


> Yup...and i will be starve and homeless for the next 6 months



me too..
as long as our country depends on US Dollar currency as its market foundation, we must wait in the next couple months until the US economy condition stabilized to get R9-290Xs with full waterblock. that's really sucks.  



NeoXF said:


> One question tho... what's with those horrible Review Scores? Are you kidding me? nVidia's cards literally only once in 20 reviews get scores lower than 90/100, but now, NOT ONE of these AMD (almost) game-changing cards get even a 9?. I don't want to go into details, the review itself seems pretty good (like most TPU reviews), but the rating at the end... really?
> 
> 
> This series of video cards do what is best above everything... start a chain reaction of price drops. And for that alone, I'd rate them straight up 10s.




i can feel you bro.. 




PopcornMachine said:


> Would like to see crossfire performance.  I know it's basically a 7970 GHz, but 13.11 beta might be different.



+1
Me too 



Recus said:


> Looks like you forgot something. Club3D To Focus Exclusively on AMD Products



wat? 
can you tell me what's the difference between club3d, sapphire, evga, zotac and origin-pc, maingear-pc?


----------



## Recus (Oct 9, 2013)

SIGSEGV said:


> wat?
> can you tell me what's the difference between club3d, sapphire, evga, zotac and origin-pc, maingear-pc?



Price. How much AMD paid to drop Nvidia?


----------



## buggalugs (Oct 9, 2013)

Recus said:


> Looks like you forgot something. Club3D To Focus Exclusively on AMD Products



 Didn't forget, that is an AIB partner, that's very different to a computer builder. Both AMD and Nvidia have had their own AIB partners for as long as I can remember. EVGA for Nvidia, Sapphire for AMD etc. They don't affect competition because there are so many of them.

 Nobody is going to say "dam I cant get a NVidia card because Club3D only make AMD" They will just get another brand like Asus or Gigabyte etc.

 There are very few highend computer builders, companies that build entire systems, and they should offer a choice for customers. Anyway its not so much that they want to do it, its why they want to do it. If they were paid to do it and paid to lie about AMD cards, that's not good.


----------



## Frick (Oct 9, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> The game bundle will not be extended until the 7000 series inventory is depleted.  It basically kills any reason to get the rebranded 280X while cheaper 7970s with bundled games are available.



Here the 280x is cheaper than the 7970 Ghz.

Some prices here:

R7 250 - €97 - As a HD 7770. Have no idea how this performs though.
R7 260X - €136 - Exactly as the HD 7790.
R9 270X - €183 - Between the HD 7850 and 7870.
R9 280X - €276 - Between the 7950 and the 7970.


----------



## HumanSmoke (Oct 9, 2013)

buggalugs said:


> There are very few highend computer builders, companies that build entire systems, and they should offer a choice for customers. Anyway its not so much that they want to do it, its why they want to do it. If they were paid to do it and paid to lie about AMD cards, that's not good.


Reading between the lines it looks like a case of hell hath no fury like a system builder scorned.
Origin PC head honcho:


> Take their last chipset announcement for example. It was another hardware representative that informed us of the new Hawaii chipset. AMD never told us anything about it, nor shared a road map outlining its future integration. When we did get with our AMD representative, we were told that there was a new chipset launching, and we could watch the event live and get answers to our questions.
> 
> We also asked for samples to start our research and development process, something that is standard in the industry for bleeding edge integrators, and we were met with resistance there… When they did agree to send samples it was for [two] R9 270’s, rather than the R9 280′s or 290′s that we would be more likely to offer…


So basically, Origin were kept in the dark and given the cold shoulder, while one of their main competitors, Maingear, not only got the primo cards to demo (which pretty much says that Maingear were in the loop for some time), they got centre stage at the launch and some reflected glory from AMD's close association.

If anything it looks like AMD playing favourites with one system builder, and kicking another in the nuts.
Probably not sound business sense from Origin, but if AMD froze them out and is actively marketing on behalf of a competitor I can see why they'd take the stance they have.


----------



## Yeoman (Oct 9, 2013)

I've seen uk pricing for the 280x etc via scan. £250 for a MSI gaming (they range from £270-300) for asus DCII/matrix. Kinda high tbh. When 7970ghz ed's operate in the £220-250 range. But understandable, makes no sense to price them the same initially I guess, makes more sense for the 'old branded' stock to be snapped up and clarify the market. 

I think it's going to be a month or more before the 2**x settles into their stride price wise. :/


----------



## Phobia9651 (Oct 9, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> The game bundle will not be extended until the 7000 series inventory is depleted.  It basically kills any reason to get the rebranded 280X while cheaper 7970s with bundled games are available.



Okay that officially sucks, they do realize this puts a lot of potential buyers of?
Back to playing the waiting game...


----------



## refillable (Oct 9, 2013)

They (R9) are killer cards of performance per price ratio. But only against nvidia cards and I think AMD will compete itself. Especially this card. As of now, $300 280X is $80 cheaper than the 770, but are only a tad slower. The $200 270X performs like a 7950. The big downsides are temperature and power which are both high in terms of a modern card. AMD needs to fix this straight away in the next generation cads, unless they want to be called Thermi like nvidia do with their 400 series cards years ago.

Know that these cards came from the last chips from last gens cards. 7970 sells for $300. Not sure if the performance boost against the power and heat should give the new card a recommendation though...


----------



## crazyeyesreaper (Oct 9, 2013)

Recus said:


> Price. How much AMD paid to drop Nvidia?



Theres also the fact that

Powercolor
Club3d
VTX

are essentially the same company aka all of them are owned by TuL corp.

So the fact they dropped Nvidia kinda makes sense as they have been primarily AMD partners since 1997.

Other brands
Sapphire + Zotac owned by same parent company each one serves a particular vendor.

Palit owns
Gainward  Galaxy and XpertVision.

Most of these companies own each other or have a stake in that company. No one got paid off in terms of AIB partners if you watch how things play out. Nvidia tends to be far more strict on what AIBs can do essentially telling them at every turn you can't do this this this this this or this or even this.  AMD originally was easier to work with however in recent years they have gotten tougher on AIBs.

As for Origin-PC they were probably paid off with a fairly sizable chunk of money from Nvidia. most likely by kickbacks and discounted GPUs. Through which there bottom line is improved. Considering most ignorant ppl know Nvidia better than AMD this wont really hurt Origin-PC in the least either.  Its just business people getting the largest amount of profit for dollar spent.


----------



## Casecutter (Oct 9, 2013)

HumanSmoke said:


> AMD playing favourites with one system builder


There's two sides to every coin, Origin is asserting sour grapes…

While it couldn’t be that Origin has played favorites with one graphics card supplier?  I don't think a business (AMD) would "cut off its' nose to spite its face" for just that, this might be more unscrupulous.

Like perhaps Origin was found previously by AMD as a leak point back to Nvidia.  Origin may have floated their own boat.  Sounds more probable AMD figured it better not to trust them this round...   Origin will still be offering the R9 290X, just from day 2.



crazyeyesreaper said:


> Other brands
> Sapphire / Zotac owned by same parent company each one serves a particular vendor


I thought they both contract manufacture from PC-Partners.


----------



## 1d10t (Oct 9, 2013)

SIGSEGV said:


> me too..
> as long as our country depends on US Dollar currency as its market foundation, we must wait in the next couple months until the US economy condition stabilized to get R9-290Xs with full waterblock. that's really sucks.



I already had twin XSPC Rasa ready for this two beast 
And yes,even with their government been shutdown didn't affect any of our currency back to sane level :shadedshu



Recus said:


> Price. How much AMD paid to drop Nvidia?



Remember XFX fiasco back in the 2010? 
System integrator or system builder is not the same as AIB partner.



buggalugs said:


> Didn't forget, that is an AIB partner, that's very different to a computer builder. Both AMD and Nvidia have had their own AIB partners for as long as I can remember. EVGA for Nvidia, Sapphire for AMD etc. They don't affect competition because there are so many of them.
> 
> Nobody is going to say "dam I cant get a NVidia card because Club3D only make AMD" They will just get another brand like Asus or Gigabyte etc.
> 
> There are very few highend computer builders, companies that build entire systems, and they should offer a choice for customers. Anyway its not so much that they want to do it, its why they want to do it. If they were paid to do it and paid to lie about AMD cards, that's not good.



+1
Many of system integrator are basically marketer.They do a semi contract and short agreement in term of profit oriented.
I didn't say this was a bad practices,but to conclude and badmouthing one vendor without any solid evidence would considered unprofessional behavior and alienated from their own potential market.



HumanSmoke said:


> Reading between the lines it looks like a case of hell hath no fury like a system builder scorned.
> Origin PC head honcho:
> 
> So basically, Origin were kept in the dark and given the cold shoulder, while one of their main competitors, Maingear, not only got the primo cards to demo (which pretty much says that Maingear were in the loop for some time), they got centre stage at the launch and some reflected glory from AMD's close association.
> ...



Someone been boasting much and Origin butthurt more?


----------



## HumanSmoke (Oct 9, 2013)

Casecutter said:


> I thought they both contract manufacture from PC-Partners.


PC Partner is the parent company of Sapphire. Zotac is a PC Partner brand - as is Inno3D and Manli


Casecutter said:


> There's two sides to every coin, Origin is asserting sour grapes…
> While it couldn’t be that Origin has played favorites with one graphics card supplier?  I don't think a business (AMD) would "cut off its' nose to spite its face" for just that, this might be more unscrupulous.


I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia didn't see it as an opportunity. If the Origin CEO is happy to howl his angst to the world as the public face of the company, how much more vehemence would he have revealed in private to a receptive Nvidia rep. This simply doesn't parse as a one side at fault kind of deal ?

Let me guess, you still see it as purely black and white. Evil Empire vs Saintly Underdog. Chalk up one for the comic book demographic.



Casecutter said:


> Like perhaps Origin was found previously by AMD as a leak point back to Nvidia.  Origin may have floated their own boat.  Sounds more probable AMD figured it better not to trust them this round...   Origin will still be offering the R9 290X, just from day 2.


Quite possible...but if Origin had passed on trade secrets to Nvidia, I would think that the Origin CEO would have been in a more conciliatory mood- after all, he's the one demonstrating the butthurt. To me it seems like AMD prioritized their marketing where they saw getting the bast bang for the buck- it is also very possible that AMD didn't/don't have the card volume to fulfil all OEM's orders. Maingear being the larger customer gets preferential treatment.


----------



## dj-electric (Oct 10, 2013)

Noticed a typo, charts say that 280X has 2GB


----------



## raghu78 (Oct 10, 2013)

is there a problem with this particular MSI R9 280X card sample that TPU got. other reviews don't have high temps as shown in this review. 

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/489...oling-noise-production-and-energy-consumption

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2013/10/09/msi-radeon-r9-280x-ge-oc-review/8

http://translate.google.com/transla...md-radeon-r7-260x-r9-270x-und-280x-im-test/9/


----------



## Initialised (Oct 10, 2013)

Yellow&Nerdy? said:


> Well, it's pretty much exactly what Nvidia did with the GTX 770: take the previous gen flag-ship, and overclock it. Considering that it costs the same as the "non GHz" version of the 7970, but performs the same as the GHz edition, it's not a bad card. At least it can be considered a "upgrade" compared to the last gen card at the same price point, unlike the R9 270X.



I've yet to find a 7970 that won't run GHz clocks, must have tested hundreds...


----------



## sweet (Oct 10, 2013)

raghu78 said:


> is there a problem with this particular MSI R9 280X card sample that TPU got. other reviews don't have high temps as shown in this review.
> 
> http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/489...oling-noise-production-and-energy-consumption
> 
> ...



Don't worry, this is a typical review from TPU. AMD must suck for some reason :lol:


----------



## Casecutter (Oct 10, 2013)

HumanSmoke said:


> Let me guess, you still see it as purely black and white. Evil Empire vs Saintly Underdog. Chalk up one for the comic book demographic.


Well no I'll call a "Spade a Spade" when there's evidance of that.

Either way we know Origin felt slighted, and threw the baby out with the dirty bath water.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Oct 10, 2013)

raghu78 said:


> is there a problem with this particular MSI R9 280X card sample that TPU got. other reviews don't have high temps as shown in this review.
> 
> http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/489...oling-noise-production-and-energy-consumption
> 
> ...



None of those reviews have any mention of VRM temperatures.  That is what the TPU review had issues with.  It looks like TPU was the only review to test VRM temperatures.  I give props to W1zzard for that.


----------



## sweet (Oct 10, 2013)

The Von Matrices said:


> None of those reviews have any mention of VRM temperatures.  That is what the TPU review had issues with.  It looks like TPU was the only review to test VRM temperatures.  I give props to W1zzard for that.



You have to note that TPU is the only review that hit 80ish in temp. That is enough to do an RMA. W1zz should have contacted MSI before posting those results.


----------



## xorbe (Oct 10, 2013)

sweet said:


> You have to note that TPU is the only review that hit 80ish in temp. That is enough to do an RMA. W1zz should have contacted MSI before posting those results.



I thought a lot of high end GPUs hovered around 79-81C these days?


----------



## raghu78 (Oct 10, 2013)

xorbe said:


> I thought a lot of high end GPUs hovered around 79-81C these days?



maybe with reference coolers but not not with custom coolers. that too at stock. the core temps are 20c higher for wizzard. he must have checked with msi if thats what the normal expected temps with the twin frozer design are or if its a faulty sample.


----------



## xorbe (Oct 10, 2013)

Ah it says 87C during gaming, that's more like 90 than 80!  There have been some whack gpu thermal paste job pics in the forums before.  Pry the card apart and find out ...


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 10, 2013)

Just a note, I finally got my sample's bios flashed and do not see the heat issues expressed in this review. Our review should be up in a few days. 



The Von Matrices said:


> None of those reviews have any mention of VRM temperatures.  That is what the TPU review had issues with.  It looks like TPU was the only review to test VRM temperatures.  I give props to W1zzard for that.





sweet said:


> You have to note that TPU is the only review that hit 80ish in temp. That is enough to do an RMA. W1zz should have contacted MSI before posting those results.


Overclocked with the flashed bios mine saw 69C on a TEST BENCH (no airflow).



The Von Matrices said:


> maybe with reference coolers but not not with custom coolers. that too at stock. the core temps are 20c higher for wizzard. he must have checked with msi if thats what the normal expected temps with the twin frozer design are or if its a faulty sample.


As I mentioned earlier in this thread, MSI released a new bios (prior to NDA release and publishing.. by a day) to help with performance and the fan curve/cooling. I did not test with the previous bios but perhaps that solved the issue.


----------



## The Von Matrices (Oct 10, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> Overclocked with the flashed bios mine saw 69C on a TEST BENCH (no airflow)



Wouldn't a test bench be the best case scenario for an axial fan cooler?  The worst thing you can do to an axial fan cooler is to put it in an enclosed area like a case where the exhaust can't dissipate.  On a test bench you have all the open space you ever need for the hot air to dissipate.


EarthDog said:


> As I mentioned earlier in this thread, MSI released a new bios (prior to NDA release and publishing.. by a day) to help with performance and the fan curve/cooling. I did not test with the previous bios but perhaps that solved the issue.



If the new BIOS was available less than 24 hours before the NDA expiration, can you really blame the reviewer for not wasting a day to rerun his tests in an urgent rush before the deadline?  One day seems like a ridiculously short window to retest, especially if he had other reviews that need to be completed.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 10, 2013)

Correct... I was thinking mobo VRM's for some reason, haha! Still, inside a case, they wouldn't throttle (40C difference?).

Let me be clear... I am not blaming W1zz for an oversight assuming he even received the bios (he had to?). That is a tight timeframe no doubt. That said, a simple mention in the article would have been helpful or simply running only the tests he uses for temperatures, not the entire suite. But certainly, not his fault in that tight of a time frame. 

EDIT: Its one game he uses for temps.


> We measured these temperatures with an actual game, not a stress test.


----------



## rodneyhchef (Oct 10, 2013)

All the bar graphs say 2048mb instead of 3072mb

Disappointed these cards are nothing new. Looking forward to the 290x!


----------



## W1zzard (Oct 10, 2013)

rodneyhchef said:


> All the bar graphs say 2048mb instead of 3072mb



just because I failed at making the graphs. thanks for spotting that issue



EarthDog said:


> assuming he even received the bios



I've been in Moscow since last weekend, had the review ready in time. got the bios after launch


----------



## BazookaJoe (Oct 11, 2013)

SRSLY???

Can I be an engineer too please. Getting paid to shove crayons up my nose sounds waaaaay better than my current job.

But seriously.

WTF?


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 11, 2013)

I do not understand what you are trying to point out? A loose connector?


----------



## sweet (Oct 11, 2013)

W1zzard said:


> just because I failed at making the graphs. thanks for spotting that issue
> 
> 
> 
> I've been in Moscow since last weekend, had the review ready in time. got the bios after launch



It could make sense if you ran the benchmark again with the launch bios. The heat problem only happened with TPU's sample, and of course it affected the result. Keeping those false numbers on a prestigious tech site like TPU is a shame


----------



## Tonduluboy (Oct 11, 2013)

SAPPHIRE VAPOR-X R9 280X 3GB GDDR5 OC 

Why there is no review this card? This one should be better than MSI punya card.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 11, 2013)

Tonduluboy said:


> SAPPHIRE VAPOR-X R9 280X 3GB GDDR5 OC
> 
> Why there is no review this card? This one should be better than MSI punya card.


https://www.google.com/search?q=SAP...22&espv=210&q=SAPPHIRE+VAPOR-X+R9+280X+review


----------



## Tonduluboy (Oct 11, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=SAP...22&espv=210&q=SAPPHIRE+VAPOR-X+R9+280X+review




well, i kinda trust this site more than other


----------



## Mussels (Oct 11, 2013)

i want one of these (reference design at least).


not fussed if its a rehash - its a CHEAPER rehash


oh and trust me: if we're commenting on the BIOS or the fan settings affecting the temps, have faith that w1zzy poos has already tested it to death and contacted MSI about it. he just doesnt do updates on the fly without 100% confirmation - so if he's waiting on an email from MSI, we wont hear about it til its done.


his results show the card was running very quiet, and somewhat hot - that is EXACTLY the kind of thing a BIOS update (or even a driver setting) can change.


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 11, 2013)

Mussels said:


> not fussed if its a rehash - its a CHEAPER rehash


They cost the same... a couple of 7970's are actually less than $300 now (after MIR so depends on if you count that, LOL!). These are $300+.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 11, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> They cost the same... a couple of 7970's are actually less than $300 now (after MIR so depends on if you count that, LOL!). These are $300+.




right now, a 7970 costs $60 more than a 280x :/

(here in aus)


----------



## xorbe (Oct 11, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> I do not understand what you are trying to point out? A loose connector?



I have this problem with a mini-HDMI adapter with my Dad's HTPC.  The connection is very, very prone to falling out (gravity!) with that tiny plug.  What it needs is an adapter cable, and to secure the cable to the back of the PC.  Though I actually just ordered him a new card with a full-sized HDMI connection yesterday, which will solve this (I didn't order it just for that though.)


----------



## EarthDog (Oct 11, 2013)

Mussels said:


> right now, a 7970 costs $60 more than a 280x :/
> 
> (here in aus)


Stupid other countries existing... 

Sorry, we all generally speak about where we get our cards. I did not know you were from down under.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 12, 2013)

EarthDog said:


> I do not understand what you are trying to point out? A loose connector?



Seems obvious to me, that thing sticking out the back is going to want to fall downwards, thereby bending/deforming the tiny little socket that is holding the weight of them connectors and the cable.


----------



## sapphirus (Oct 12, 2013)

*Brand of other cards*

thanks for the review and benchmark for so many games lol, but frankly I find it rather useless to compare a brand build with a bunch of reference models. at the end of the day not many ppl would use a reference model and most of the top brands now days come with a default OC and varies coolers that could make a lot of difference in terms of power/temp/noise level (and with the same rm price)

i would say a more useful comparison will be to compare models with the same brand using the same cooler and similar level of default OC

and BTW where did you guys get the reference model for r9 280x? I thought there's no rm for that


----------



## Mussels (Oct 13, 2013)

sapphirus said:


> thanks for the review and benchmark for so many games lol, but frankly I find it rather useless to compare a brand build with a bunch of reference models. at the end of the day not many ppl would use a reference model and most of the top brands now days come with a default OC and varies coolers that could make a lot of difference in terms of power/temp/noise level (and with the same rm price)
> 
> i would say a more useful comparison will be to compare models with the same brand using the same cooler and similar level of default OC
> 
> and BTW where did you guys get the reference model for r9 280x? I thought there's no rm for that



usually those modified cards come with a pissy 25MHz OC, cost $50-$100 more and then cut out features like voltage control, and come with a noisier cooler.

reference benchmarks are neccesary, and far more important than testing 20 slightly different cards where the only real difference is the fan they used.


----------



## Solaris17 (Oct 13, 2013)

sweet said:


> Don't worry, this is a typical review from TPU. AMD must suck for some reason :lol:



you know its interesting that you say things like this because i remember inbetween 05 and 07 for some reason everyone thought TPU was ATI biased and nvidia was the devil to w1zz it wasnt true then either. Its almost like he reports what he sees. Crazy stuff.


----------



## W1zzard (Oct 14, 2013)

updated last page with results from new bios, and link to that bios


----------



## Hilux SSRG (Oct 14, 2013)

Even with the updated Bios, the 82C seems to high of a temperature.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 15, 2013)

Hilux SSRG said:


> Even with the updated Bios, the 82C seems to high of a temperature.



the card runs quiet - they chose silence over cooling. manually upping the fan speeds would change that.


----------



## Hilux SSRG (Oct 15, 2013)

Mussels said:


> the card runs quiet - they chose silence over cooling. manually upping the fan speeds would change that.



That's unfortunate, wonder if their Lighting version will up the cooling and lower the temps.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 15, 2013)

Hilux SSRG said:


> That's unfortunate, wonder if their Lighting version will up the cooling and lower the temps.



most users would prefer it to be quieter with the option of louder. most users will notice a noisy card but never find the fan speed slider and just be unhappy with it.


----------



## mastershake575 (Oct 15, 2013)

HumanSmoke said:


> Expressing a personal opinion on my preference equals a personal attack on you?
> 
> Didn't realize that the GHz Edition was such a vast improvement over base 7970. I stand corrected.


 There isn't really any improvement both the 280X gaming and the 7970 you listed are both clocked the same (1050mhz). Theres little difference if any 



PopcornMachine said:


> Have fun with your non-GHz edition 7970 and games I either already have or don't want.


 The MSI 7970 boost he posted is clocked at 1050mhz....... (that same speeds as the 280x). Did you even read his link ? (I'm assuming you didn't or your ignorant)


----------



## arrow (Oct 21, 2013)

W1zzard said:


> updated last page with results from new bios, and link to that bios



hi. may i know the low and high fan noise and temperature . you wrrote just max temperature. i dont know its with or without OC !!!! i want to buy it but i need those result after bios update !!! thanks


----------



## Peeg (Oct 24, 2013)

*atiwinflash wont let me update BIOS*

When I try to update the MSI 280x with atiwinflash it gives me an error message that says "subsystem id mismatch". How do I get around this?


----------



## AlderaaN (Oct 25, 2013)

Peeg said:


> When I try to update the MSI 280x with atiwinflash it gives me an error message that says "subsystem id mismatch". How do I get around this?


Hello.

I've seen the same issue mentioned, but with the GIGABYTE R9 280X OC variant over a thread I've opened regarding its fan noise issue.

Until someone that has first-hand BIOS flashing experience with this card comes along,
it might be worth checking out the Driver disc that came with your graphics card for a flashing tool (perhaps a different version of ATIwinflash).

Or, it might be possible and safe to flash using the MSI Live Update 5 utility that's featured on the download section of the graphics card's web page.

In any case, it would be appreciated if you could come back here and let us know how it went.


Regards,
//Subscribed to thread.


----------



## Ribozyme (Oct 25, 2013)

*Idle noise*

Hello Wizzard, thanks for the review.

However I have a question about the idle noise. It says 28dBA in your measurements, which seems VERY high, compared to your other reviews on cards. Is it really inaudible in idle? Is it silent in idle to the likes of the 670 asus dc2? As that scores 24 dbA. You score the 760 MSI gaming 25 dbA idle but I think it was pretty loud idle in my user scenario( node 304 on desk). Still you say on the 28dbA idle of the 280x MSI: 'Idle noise levels are great, making the card barely audible'. So this contradicts the 28dbA measurement.

Basically I am looking for the most silent in idle 7950/7970/280x which seems to be the VTX3D 7970 according to your reviews, but unfortunately not really available anymore.

In the review of us.hardware.info http://us.hardware.info/reviews/4892/7/amd-radeon-r9-280x--r9-270x-from-asus-and-msi-review-r9-in-practice-cooling-noise-production-and-energy-consumption they seem to rank the MSI 280x quieter in idle than the 760 gaming. 

So I am confused right now.


----------



## mab1376 (Nov 2, 2013)

Whats the best procedure to update the bios?

I don't see anything on the MSI site regarding the BIOS update or the procedure to install it.

Also what the BIOS version I should check in GPU-Z to see if its already current? Mine is still in the mail.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 2, 2013)

mab1376 said:


> Whats the best procedure to update the bios?
> 
> I don't see anything on the MSI site regarding the BIOS update or the procedure to install it.
> 
> Also what the BIOS version I should check in GPU-Z to see if its already current? Mine is still in the mail.



if there isnt any listed, your card already has the newest. w1zzy almost always gets his early, before they go retail.


----------



## mab1376 (Nov 5, 2013)

Would there be a measurable decrease in performance using this card on a PCIe 2.0 slot?


----------



## NeoXF (Nov 5, 2013)

mab1376 said:


> Would there be a measurable decrease in performance using this card on a PCIe 2.0 slot?



With a single one? Nope.
Only in encoding stuff, but even people that use them for that, aren't concerned for 5-15% lower performance here and there, over 2.0.


----------



## mab1376 (Nov 7, 2013)

This card is a beast, maxed out BF4 and Splinter Cell Blacklist at 1920x1200 and ran smoothly, didn't get the FPS numbers, but with vsync on ran very smooth even with my slightly dated CPU and only 6GB ram. I'm actually glad i didn't bother getting the 290 or 290x, its unnecessary unless you're running eyefinity or a 4k screen IMO.

Also ran Furmark at 1080P with 8x MSAA and only reached 71C after about an hour in my corsair 600T.

yeah its got some coil whine under high load, but with the sound up on BF4 who would notice?

overall extremely happy with the card.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 8, 2013)

mab1376 said:


> This card is a beast, maxed out BF4 and Splinter Cell Blacklist at 1920x1200 and ran smoothly, didn't get the FPS numbers, but with vsync on ran very smooth even with my slightly dated CPU and only 6GB ram. I'm actually glad i didn't bother getting the 290 or 290x, its unnecessary unless you're running eyefinity or a 4k screen IMO.
> 
> Also ran Furmark at 1080P with 8x MSAA and only reached 71C after about an hour in my corsair 600T.
> 
> ...



your opinion matches mine on my 7970 (same card, really). for 1080p, a 280x/7970 is perfect for current generation games, and probably a few more to come.


----------



## Tibor Hazafi (Mar 12, 2015)

Are these FPS numbers in games (for example StarCraft II - Hear of the Swarm) minimum or average values?


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Sep 2, 2015)

W1zzard said:


> On NVIDIA cards with boost, the values discussed here are base clock. Boost will further increase clocks.



https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/R9_280X_Gaming/29.html

Why ?


----------



## Mussels (Sep 3, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/R9_280X_Gaming/29.html
> 
> Why ?



gotta live Nvidia boost on AMD cards, can't believe no one noticed til now.


----------



## crazyeyesreaper (Sep 3, 2015)

how is it wrong? It just says.  
"On NVIDIA cards with boost, the values discussed here are base clock. Boost will further increase clocks." 

Obviously the AMD card is not an Nvidia card thus the statement does not apply. Kinda self explanatory


----------



## Mussels (Sep 3, 2015)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> how is it wrong? It just says.
> "On NVIDIA cards with boost, the values discussed here are base clock. Boost will further increase clocks."
> 
> Obviously the AMD card is not an Nvidia card thus the statement does not apply. Kinda self explanatory



its just a typo using a template from an nvidia review.


----------

