# Best graphic card for this computer



## wachuwey (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello.
This is my current computer.

AMD 965 @3.8GHz (slight OC) 
Cooler Master V8 
2x4GB GSkill ARES 1600 
Gigabyte GA-MA790FXT-UD5P 
Corsair 650TX 

Cooler Master HAFXB 
Crucial M4 
Benq 1920x1080 

Gigabyte GTX 460 OC 1GB

I was wondering what is the best graphic card to put in that pc without bottleneck.
Does a 460 SLI worth it?

Thanks.


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## RCoon (Jan 28, 2013)

Wouldnt jump on 460 SLI personally, lots of power hunger there. All depends on budget I suppose. But with no budget to deal with so far, a 7970 or 680, dont care which.
inb4 greenvsred.


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## wachuwey (Jan 28, 2013)

7970 or 680 ?
Those beasts will not be bottlenecked by the CPU?

Don't talk about budget because i just want to know the limitation of my actual computer for future updates.


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## TriggerWolf (Jan 28, 2013)

Well, from personal experience with a 3.66GHz Q9450 @1680x1050 you won't get much better performance of a newer GPU, I tried a GTX670 with it and my frame rates were downright the same as a GTX470 on 3 out of 4 games I benchmarked. Only the extra video RAM was handy, one thing I noticed as an improvement was less stuttering with very high texture detailed games.

You may be better off at that res with something like a GTX660 or AMD 7950 over a 460 SLI.


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## RCoon (Jan 28, 2013)

Well that CPU is *reasonable* and will game comfortably, but i dont think there's much left in the way of future gaming, though at this rate it will do ok if engines dont get updated...
Your build is actually pretty reasonable, i checked it out on the internet, and you would not experience any noticable bottleneck, though the gtx 680 etc might not run at 100% *in certain game titles*. You could easily get those two cards on your system, but a 7950 or 660/ti would run perfectly i think.
Apparently with a good overclock on the Phenom X4's you can mitigate the bottleneck to minimal.


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## wachuwey (Jan 28, 2013)

RCoon said:


> Apparently with a good overclock on the Phenom X4's you can mitigate the bottleneck to minimal.



That's one of my weak points.
Not a expert in overclock.

Recently tried to put my cpu at 4.0GHz but it became unstable.
Also, my cooler is not the best for overclocking, but I liked it.
For sure I need to give it another try, someday.


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## RCoon (Jan 28, 2013)

wachuwey said:


> That's one of my weak points.
> Not a expert in overclock.
> 
> Recently tried to put my cpu at 4.0GHz but it became unstable.
> ...



Come on the TPU Teamspeak server at 17:00 GMT tonight, I'd be more than happy to help.
While the cooler may not be the best, the V8 is one of my favorites aesthetically.
I got my 1055t X6 to 4.2Ghz on 1.45v vcore, without changing much else in the BIOS besides multiplier, voltage and manually setting RAM speed, and that was on a cheap old Asus Evo board. Just keep the CPU below 70 degrees 
Big GPU's will certainly improve framerates, and even if they are only 95% loaded with the CPU, if you ever think of upgrading the CPU in future, at least you know your graphics card is boss.


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## Law-II (Jan 28, 2013)

Hi

Just my opinion; take a GTX 670 over a GTX 660Ti [Ti has less mem bandwidth over the 670]

nb: GTX 670 has theoretical Pixel Fill Rate: 32320 MPixels/sec Texture Fill Rate: 113120 MTexels/sec at peak loads [this is without OC; due to the dynamic clock *boost, if temps are kept under control higher clocks can be achived] 




Source - http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_660_Ti_Power_Edition/8.html

if you are not in the Nvidia camp then go with a HD 7950



Source - http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7950/8.html

Spec Comparison site - http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=669&card2=664#

Which ever way you go I hope you have a great experience

atb (all the best)

Law-II


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## wachuwey (Jan 28, 2013)

RCoon said:


> Come on the TPU Teamspeak server at 17:00 GMT tonight, I'd be more than happy to help.



Thanks for the invitation, but I have to reject.
English is not my first language. I can write decently, but speaking is quite difficult to me.

But thanks anyway.


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## TC-man (Jan 28, 2013)

Hi,

Here's a very interesting article about better performance scaling overall of AMD's HD 7970 (versus GTX 680) in games with PC systems that are running on relatively weaker processors (except in the Crysis 2 test where it shows that the GTX 680 in general is better, though AMD's HD 7970 scales relatively better in the same Crysis 2 test with the Pentium G860 dual core CPU than the GTX 680 does).

So according to this article (and if we can believe in the results from it) your video card of choice may be an AMD video card, especially when you are afraid that the games may not scale well with your PC that's powered by a Phenom II X4 after a high-end video card upgrade.

Furthermore, according several replies to the mentioned article, the difference in CPU scaling between Nvidia's GTX 680 and AMD HD 7970 may be caused by how the scheduling is implemented for both cards. Nvidia has introduced software scheduling that's done by CPU in their new Kepler GPUs. Before with the Fermi cards, Nvidia was using low level hardware scheduling that's run on the GPU itself. So the GTX 680/Kepler can really shine with a high-end CPU and not so much with a weaker CPU, at least that's the conclusion of the replies.

By the way, here's a related article about the mentioned "scheduling".


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## Lionheart (Jan 28, 2013)

I would go with a GTX 660Ti or a HD7950 & no higher due to bottlenecking


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## MT Alex (Jan 28, 2013)

wachuwey said:


> Thanks for the invitation, but I have to reject.
> English is not my first language. I can write decently, but speaking is quite difficult to me.
> 
> But thanks anyway.



Yes, you do very well with written text, better than a lot of native English speakers.


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## brandonwh64 (Jan 28, 2013)

I speak the worst broken english a southerner can do and still come to the TS.


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## de.das.dude (Jan 28, 2013)

this pc will not bottleneck anything.


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## tokyoduong (Jan 28, 2013)

wachuwey said:


> Hello.
> This is my current computer.
> 
> AMD 965 @3.8GHz (slight OC)
> ...



Don't go SLI! it only works on some games and have more problems than it's worth the cost/power/headache. But if you got money to blow then sure.
Just upgrade to 660/Ti or 7870/50 but I wouldn't go any higher. Then your next upgrade should be a 8350/20 if you have the money.
Crucial M4 is a good choice and reliable


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## wachuwey (Jan 28, 2013)

Talking about this with some friends, they realize the SLI option is not possible.
My motherboard is Crossfire capable only.
They told me there are some tricks, but nothing official.

Reading your answers, things are clear
from 660Ti to 680 in Nvidia
from 7870 to 7950 in AMD

Like RCoon said in the first answer, Green vs Red.
Now I know the options.

Thanks.


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## BraveSoul (Jan 29, 2013)

u got decent cpu,,,,  660Ti-670, HD7950  ,,,, enjoy


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## tokyoduong (Jan 30, 2013)

wachuwey said:


> Talking about this with some friends, they realize the SLI option is not possible.
> My motherboard is Crossfire capable only.
> They told me there are some tricks, but nothing official.
> 
> ...



Stick with 7870 or 660 ti. I would save that $100 and upgrade to the later generation of architecture in 6 months and sell your old card


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## xenocide (Jan 30, 2013)

Just about any GPU people are mentioning will more than likely bottleneck, but you'll still see a performance gain.  A system will always have a bottleneck somewhere, what matters is the severity.  A bottleneck that costs you 5% isn't huge, but if you barely see a performance gain (which won't be the case) then you are in big trouble.  I would say HD7870, HD7950, or GTX660Ti depending on how much you want to spend, then invest in a new CPU/Mobo when you have the funds.  An FX-6300 or FX-8320 will futureproof you for some time.


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## Tatty_One (Jan 30, 2013)

Taking into account your CPU/system, my money would go on the HD7870, swift performance at a good price and will pretty much run anything high at 1080p.


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## Cruise51 (Feb 1, 2013)

Your cpu is already pretty good. Even a HD7970 wouldn't really be bottlenecked much by it. If it was my money I'd buy something like this:

Club3D 7870 Joker Tahiti LE
Club3D 7950 Royal King


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## Bo$$ (Feb 1, 2013)

Personally I'd say sell your CPU + GPU, add some cash, get a Phenom II X4 or a FX CPU and the highest ATI graphics card your budget allows (7870 or similar). But you MUST change that CPU!

edit: derp derp 965 is a phenom II epic fail, GPU! 7950 is a nice option


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## drdeathx (Feb 1, 2013)

de.das.dude said:


> this pc will not bottleneck anything.



You can choose ANY current graphics card will work fine with your system without a serious bottleneck concern.


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## Jstn7477 (Feb 1, 2013)

You *might* be alright with a high end single GPU. In the crossfire/SLI charts, Intel SB/IB quads show a noticeably big FPS difference in many games versus AMD FX-8xxx processors. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8350-core-i7-3770k-gaming-bottleneck,3407.html

The above article is about a pair of HD 7970s on an i7-3770K and FX-8350, but essentially, if you are getting low frame rates compared to other users with the same graphics card, your CPU is probably the bottleneck. You could get a new GPU now and upgrade the platform later on if you wanted.

I'd personally go with a 7850/7870 since they are relatively cheap and are a better match for your CPU in my opinion.


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## xxdozer322 (Feb 1, 2013)

My old 965 (oc at 3.9) handled both of my 580s just fine (Evga 580, current SOC 580) without any bottleneck, i maxed out bf3 at 1080p easily...btw it wasn't sli, just 2 different cards that were in my system.


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## GSquadron (Feb 1, 2013)

7850


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## yaby0800 (Feb 25, 2013)

I would pick N670 for gaming. NV's driver is much optimized. recently, there are some models with more memory sizes like GV-N670OC-4GD . if you're AMD lover, you can pick 7850 which can be automatically overclocked by AMD boost to additiona 100MHz around. the backdraw is high fan speed (higher nosie)


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## tokyoduong (Feb 25, 2013)

wachuwey said:


> Talking about this with some friends, they realize the SLI option is not possible.
> My motherboard is Crossfire capable only.
> They told me there are some tricks, but nothing official.
> 
> ...



Obviously, money is a concern for you if you're sticking with a 965. You can find the reviews yourself but I will promise you that the 965 OC to 3.8ghz will still bottleneck you in some games(games that are more CPU intensive). The first game that comes to mind is Star Craft 2. It doesn't matter how much OC I did or what graphics I use, it stuttered like crazy and frames dropped to the single digits when a big battle happened. Now I use an i5 3570k with 7850 with no OC on anything and it runs like butter.

for your  CPU a good match would be a radeon 7850 or a regular 660 at the most. Anything higher is a waste of money as your marginal gain is not worth the extra cost. Use that difference to get a better CPU. The 7850 will play all the games out there anyways. Unless you really need to play metro 2033 at ultra settings, you don't need to go any higher.

Check out this thread as this guy is obviously CPU limited by the games he plays. He is using a 7950 and phenom II 965.
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180286



yaby0800 said:


> I would pick N670 for gaming. NV's driver is much optimized. recently, there are some models with more memory sizes like GV-N670OC-4GD . if you're AMD lover, you can pick 7850 which can be automatically overclocked by AMD boost to additiona 100MHz around. the backdraw is high fan speed (higher nosie)



ignore this "nvidia's drivers are better" BS. Both brands have equally good good drivers. Both drivers have problems. Both companies tries to fix bugs, glitches, and performance issues as quickly as possible. 
There are products with more memory sizes on both brands. The 7850 can OC a lot more than 100mhz.


Both companies makes good cards and are on par with the price/performance. If you plan on OC for free performance then a 7850 or 7950 are the champs IMO and the general consensus. If you want CUDA and PhysX then Nvidia is the only option. SLI is still slightly better than Crossfire IMO. Right now, the current game bundles makes AMD the best value if those games matters to you.


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## d1nky (Feb 25, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> ignore this "nvidia's drivers are better" BS. Both brands have equally good good drivers. Both drivers have problems. Both companies tries to fix bugs, glitches, and performance issues as quickly as possible.



about time someone said something! also it takes many people to test/judge a drivers performance!


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## wachuwey (Feb 25, 2013)

I still use a 460OC 1GB.
I'm trying to get all the power. Now it's OC to CoreClock 825Mhz - Memory 2000Mhz
The CPU is up to 4.0GHz with good temps.

I'm waiting to know the true specifications of new Xbox and PS4.
Maybe, with a 7850 I can make good gaming PC (not to play in High) for a couple of years.


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## TheMailMan78 (Feb 25, 2013)

MT Alex said:


> Yes, you do very well with written text, better than a lot of native English speakers.



wAt mean U?!


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## HD64G (Feb 25, 2013)

7870 normal or LE will be just perfect for everyones gaming needs. Except the case you have a triple screen setup or a 27-30" one.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 25, 2013)

wachuwey said:


> I still use a 460OC 1GB.
> I'm trying to get all the power. Now it's OC to CoreClock 825Mhz - Memory 2000Mhz
> The CPU is up to 4.0GHz with good temps.
> 
> ...



I always play in high and ultra with my 7850. A lot of presets uses AA. Try with and without it to see if it's worth the massive hit in fps.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 25, 2013)

A 965BE shouldn't be too big of a bottleneck but a newer I5/I7 will net around 20% increase. I think you would be fine with a 660TI or 7950


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## tokyoduong (Feb 25, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> A 965BE shouldn't be too big of a bottleneck but a newer I5/I7 will net around 20% increase. I think you would be fine with a 660TI or 7950



20% lower average fps means it is taking a much bigger hit when there's a lot of action. Min frames is more important than average fps. If I see a 20% difference in frames from different CPU then I would consider that a pretty big bottleneck actually. That's just my opinion though.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 25, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> 20% lower average fps means it is taking a much bigger hit when there's a lot of action. Min frames is more important than average fps. If I see a 20% difference in frames from different CPU then I would consider that a pretty big bottleneck actually. That's just my opinion though.



If it is 1080P then it would not be much of a bottle neck especially if its OCed. He would just have to buy the card and test to see if he likes it or if it chokes the 965 out.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 25, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> If it is 1080P then it would not be much of a bottle neck especially if its OCed. He would just have to buy the card and test to see if he likes it or if it chokes the 965 out.



The problem is that the 965 is fine most of the time. When it chokes is when the action gets intense. It is also when you need it not to choke the most as your input is most critical in these situations. Benchmarks will show you that it falls behind in bandwidth and IPC compared to the newer i5 and i7. Not bashing AMD, it was an excellent chip when it was new but we are 3 generations later already so it's a little behind.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 25, 2013)

tokyoduong said:


> The problem is that the 965 is fine most of the time. When it chokes is when the action gets intense. It is also when you need it not to choke the most as your input is most critical in these situations. Benchmarks will show you that it falls behind in bandwidth and IPC compared to the newer i5 and i7. Not bashing AMD, it was an excellent chip when it was new but we are 3 generations later already so it's a little behind.



I will have to test this on my Unlocked phenom II quad but under BF3 on a 5770 all medium it does quite well. again this is a low end card I am using.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 25, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> I will have to test this on my Unlocked phenom II quad but under BF3 on a 5770 all medium it does quite well. again this is a low end card I am using.



64 player  frag fest is guaranteed to cripple it. In starcraft 2 when everyone maxes pop and attack, it gets choppy, in 6-8 player company of heroes multiplay and everyone start fighting at the same time with max pop it'll get really choppy. These are just a few examples i experienced myself. You can avoid this by turning down settings but what's the point of that.

Just saying that i5 + 7850 will give you better game play than phenom II + 7950. You won't get higher max frames or average fps but you'll definitely get higher min frames when it counts.


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## wachuwey (Feb 26, 2013)

*How can I know if a 7870 is Tahiti LE or not??*

I can get one of this Gigabyte GV-R787OC-2GD at work, for 190€ (250$) instead of the shop price 227€.
I'm not sure if it is a Tahiti version or not. Is there any way to know it?.

I can get one of this too, all gigabyte:
7850 GV-R785OC-2GD for 150€ (195$) instead of 188€ in shops.

7870 GV-R787OC-2GD for 190€ (250$) instead of 227€ in shops.

660  GV-N660OC-2GD for 164€ (214$) instead of 200€ in shops.

660Ti  GV-N66TOC-2GD  for 220€ (287$) instead of 270€ in shops.

Wich one do you choose?
Also, I could sell my old 460, to get a bit of cash.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 26, 2013)

wachuwey said:


> *How can I know if a 7870 is Tahiti LE or not??*
> 
> I can get one of this Gigabyte GV-R787OC-2GD at work, for 190€ (250$) instead of the shop price 227€.
> I'm not sure if it is a Tahiti version or not. Is there any way to know it?.
> ...



Tahiti has more shaders than a regular 7870.

Judging from prices, the 660 is the best deal unless you want the games that the AMD cards bundles with.


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