# qubit finally upgrades to Windows 10 permanently!



## qubit (Mar 5, 2016)

This is just a little ramble about my upgrade to Windows 10 today.

Initially installed it on a VM when it was still in beta, as an Insider. That became a permanently activated copy in that VM when W10 went RTM which was great and I still have it. I couldn't find a way to transfer it to the actual PC and have it activate on it though. Looks like it can't be done despite much googling about it. If anyone knows how please let me know.

A while later, I upgraded to W10 using the normal W7 upgrade path, making a system image first. It was all very nice, but I missed Aero and in particular, Unreal Tournament 2004 didn't work properly on it since it uses DX8, which isn't fully supported in W10. I tried installing the June 2010 DX update like someone suggested, but it made no difference. Can't adjust things like vsync (permanently off) and brightness though.

This can apparently be fixed by running the 64-bit version of the game which uses DX9 (need to find a copy). It won't be the Steam version though and therefore won't log how many hours I'm wasting on it, lol.

Since I didn't have a pressing reason to upgrade to W10 at that time and I was playing that game a lot, I decided to hold off for a while and restored W7 from that system image.

W10 is becoming more and more mainstream now however, so I decided to bite the bullet and do that upgrade finally (making another system image first) sorting out those UT2004 problems later. I'll just run W7 in a dual boot configuration if I absolutely can't fix all the problems and I want to play it. Shame though as the game is still amazing 12 years later and I never get bored of deathmatch mode.

I upgraded today and unsurprisingly W10 installed an old version of the NVIDIA video driver and a duff version of the sound driver that doesn't output any sound. I've upgraded the video driver to the latest one and will fix the sound driver later, if possible. It's an old sound card, so it may not be supported any more by Creative, I'll have to check.

I've also installed O&O ShutUp10 to stop that intrusive telemetry from telling Microsoft everything I do and bring Windows Update under control. It's free, so get it here: https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

Overall Windows 10 is nice, it's stable and Classic Shell restores a proper Start menu, so no annoying tiles for me.

So, what's your upgrade experience been like?


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## AlienIsGOD (Mar 5, 2016)

upgraded 4 pc's and have no issues at this point.  There were some NZXT CAM issues last year but they were sorted pretty fast.


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## Dethroy (Mar 5, 2016)

Have upgraded all my own machines to Windows 10 after thoroughly testing it at work on hundreds on machines. Everytime I see a Windows 7 installation - be it at a friend's place or an old machine from employees - I simply can't stand its looks anymore ( for aero has vanished). Windows 10 looks so much better imho!

Haven't had any trouble so far


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## RejZoR (Mar 5, 2016)

I've been using it for a while now. Still hate god awful retarded automatic driver installing, especially for graphic card and I had to replace stupid Windows Update with Windows Update MiniTool, but the rest is fine. Oh and the spying nonsense, I had to block all that shit.


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## NdMk2o1o (Mar 5, 2016)

I have no issues with the tiles, never look at/use them so it's like they're not there, my brain just doesn't see them when I use the start menu... now you have your HW ID set to your Windows 10 key you can actually do a clean install as opposed to the upgrade and it will register automatically  I did this only cause I was having issues with the first upgrade I did and always prefer a clean install! I also use O+O Shutup10!


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## newtekie1 (Mar 5, 2016)

I'm slowly replacing Win8.1 on all my machines with Win10 as I reformat them.  Of the machines I use regularly I've upgraded 4 to Win10, and 3 more still need upgrading.


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## scevism (Mar 5, 2016)

Only issue i have is loading times power up from cold it boot's up very quick. Do a restart and hangs for a couple of mins strange?
Apart from that all good.


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## NdMk2o1o (Mar 5, 2016)

scevism said:


> Only issue i have is loading times power up from cold it boot's up very quick. Do a restart and hangs for a couple of mins strange?
> Apart from that all good.



That is strange, maybe something else at play as I haven't experienced this and you have an SSD as per your specs?


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## scevism (Mar 5, 2016)

NdMk2o1o said:


> That is strange, maybe something else at play as I haven't experienced this and you have an SSD as per your specs?


Yeah Win 10 all on my ssd. Very strange 1 for sure.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Mar 5, 2016)

3 out of 5 of my pcs run W10. My main pc has a W7 start menu.
PC #4 runs W7
PC #5 runs Ubuntu.

I am in a period of adjustment...i completely skipped Vista cos i couldnt let go of XP but now i know how to ditch the stuff i dont want/need i am transitioning quite well to W10.

I ditched the tiles by right clicking and after following advice on TPU disabled unwanted updates.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 5, 2016)

scevism said:


> Yeah Win 10 all on my ssd. Very strange 1 for sure.



Do you have fast start enabled in Win10? Do you have a Hard drive?


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 5, 2016)

scevism said:


> Only issue i have is loading times power up from cold it boot's up very quick. Do a restart and hangs for a couple of mins strange?
> Apart from that all good.



If you've got fast start enabled it is the most likely culprit.


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## Kadano (Mar 6, 2016)

qubit said:


> I upgraded today and unsurprisingly W10 installed an old version of the NVIDIA video driver and a duff version of the sound driver that doesn't output any sound. I've upgraded the video driver to the latest one and will fix the sound driver later, if possible. It's an old sound card, so it may not be supported any more by Creative, I'll have to check.
> 
> I've also installed O&O ShutUp10 to stop that intrusive telemetry from telling Microsoft everything I do and bring Windows Update under control. It's free, so get it here: https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
> 
> ...


I don't know if our issues are related, but on my main computer, I've installed Windows 10 five times so far, always hoping to fix the issue (due to supposedly bad audio drivers I had installed or an update that would have fixed the problem by then).

My issue was DPC latency spikes every 30 minutes, probably caused by ndis.sys that caused one second of video and audio lag. It was very annoying and sometimes disturbing. I've tried a lot, disabling audio devices, reinstalling Windows, installing Microsoft's analysis software with system traces … nothing helped. Possibly it's the Windows 10 network drivers and the problem might be gone if I don't connect to the internet … but of course I won't sacrifice internet access just so that I can use Windows 10 without severe bugs. So I went back to Windows 8.1.

Also, the hardware configuration was not changed. Never had these latency spikes on W7 or W8.1. Only W10, and every single time I installed it. 
My machine isn't even out of the ordinary:
ASRock Z77 Pro4 mainboard
Intel i5 2500K CPU
NVidia GTX 950 GPU
Asus Xonar DG PCI soundcard
Yuan SC500N1 PCIe video capture card

I might give W10 another try on a secondary system. But never again on my primary system. It's too much of a hassle.

Oh, and esthetically, Windows 10 is so inconsistent. Some menus are light themed, some are dark themed, and with every fifth update or so a menu is switched between one of these two styles. Instead of having one global toggle for all of them. I mean, I get that the teams that write the menus are stressed and fractured, so they might not have the time to implement said toggle, but why keep changing the colors back and forth then?


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## LightningJR (Mar 6, 2016)

Had it on both my laptop and PC, went back to Win7 because my Madcatz keyboard didn't work on in for whatever reason. I use PSCheck on my laptop and it doesn't work on Win10.. If it wasn't for those two things I would still be using it.


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## qubit (Mar 6, 2016)

@Kadano It does sound like a driver issue you've got there. I had a quick google and found this forum thread that's apparently got a solution for this:

www.sevenforums.com/sound-audio/192283-dpc-latency-spikes.html

I fixed the sound problem. Really easy in the end: just looked at the Creative Windows 10 support list and clicked the link. This lead to a revised driver that worked perfectly with it. Likely the older one will work too if I could be bothered to try it.

http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=126331

Welcome to TPU. 





LightningJR said:


> Had it on both my laptop and PC, went back to Win7 because my Madcatz keyboard didn't work on in for whatever reason. I use PSCheck on my laptop and it doesn't work on Win10.. If it wasn't for those two things I would still be using it.


I know what you mean. If those one or two things are mission critical to you then it compromises the whole upgrade if it breaks them. That's how I felt about this game.


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## Vineet Reddy (Mar 6, 2016)

I upgraded one of my low profile laptop to windows 10 and that was a mistake as it is not able to support any high profile games which windows 7 handled very easily. I played ACR, MGR, Crysis2, NFS RUN, Arkham Trio(Assylum, City, Origins) and many more on same laptop when Windows 7 was installed but now when I upgraded to Windows 10 all of those games are rejecting to install as requirements not met. 
Otherwise Windows 10 is good and is way better than 8 & 8.1


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## qubit (Mar 6, 2016)

Ok, just solved the UT2004 compatibility issue which can be done one of two ways:

1 Install the 64-bit patch
2 Even simpler: just edit the UT2004.ini file to use the OpenGL renderer instead of DirectX, like so:

[Engine.Engine]
;RenderDevice=D3DDrv.D3DRenderDevice
;RenderDevice=D3D9Drv.D3D9RenderDevice
;RenderDevice=Engine.NullRenderDevice
RenderDevice=OpenGLDrv.OpenGLRenderDevice
;RenderDevice=PixoDrv.PixoRenderDevice

Path for Steam version of this ini file:

[x]\Steam Install\steamapps\common\Unreal Tournament 2004\System

Where [x] is the install folder for Steam, usually the root of the drive.

Sure, it's a workaround, but a true DX8 fix isn't available unfortunately so this problem remains for other old games. Ran the game for a couple of minutes like this and it was perfect, even with SLI on. Dunno if the framerate is higher or lower than it would be with DX8, but on earlier Windows performance was similar between the two graphics standards, so likely similar here if it was possible.


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## Caring1 (Mar 6, 2016)

I'd answer the Poll, but it won't allow a Yes, and No.
I have a few systems and only one is "upgraded" to W10.


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## OneMoar (Mar 6, 2016)

http://www.kentie.net/article/d3d10drv/


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## AlienIsGOD (Mar 6, 2016)

LightningJR said:


> Had it on both my laptop and PC, went back to Win7 because my Madcatz keyboard didn't work on in for whatever reason. I use PSCheck on my laptop and it doesn't work on Win10.. If it wasn't for those two things I would still be using it.



What madcatz keyboard?  I have the STRIKE TE and drivers and software install and run fine.


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## LightningJR (Mar 6, 2016)

AlienIsGOD said:


> What madcatz keyboard?  I have the STRIKE TE and drivers and software install and run fine.


CYBORG V7


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## INSTG8R (Mar 6, 2016)

Running it without issue on my Desktop for a few months now. I first tried it on my ancient TurionX2 Laptop and it hated it so it's still on 7.


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## Drone (Mar 6, 2016)

Running W10 since the very first public/insider alpha/beta build with drivers downloaded through Windows Update (except nvidia which I download manually from nvidia site). Upgraded many times from one build to another, always smooth. Never had any major issues. Some early builds had problems with wifi disappearing time after time, but they fixed that. Now it's really good and steady. Latest RS1 build is the best I've seen. Can't wait to see final RS1 or even better RS2 in summer 2017.


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## AlienIsGOD (Mar 6, 2016)

LightningJR said:


> CYBORG V7



Yea there seems to be a lot of issues with that keyboard. This seems to have helped others,  scroll down to where it's says THE FIX http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...p/fe7bd7b1-a05a-45a4-a913-3d8b14d304b9?page=4


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 6, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> I've been using it for a while now. Still hate god awful retarded automatic driver installing, especially for graphic card and I had to replace stupid Windows Update with Windows Update MiniTool, but the rest is fine. Oh and the spying nonsense, I had to block all that shit.



You havent turned that shit off?


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## RejZoR (Mar 6, 2016)

Turned what off? Driver updating? I'm surprised to say I'm the first (and apparently only) person to know that doens't work at all. Even if you disable driver updating, WIndows 10 will disregard that and still auto update graphic drivers and also auto install them whether you like it or not. It is IMPOSSIBLE to to make a clean driver install now.


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## Ahhzz (Mar 6, 2016)

Sitting solid with Win7 on the main PC, and the server, and Her main PC. Moved Her from Win8 to 10 a few months ago on Her laptop, but we don't use it much. I don't particularly care what goes on on it, as long as it's not Win8, and it works, and so far it does. We use it to watch the occasional netflix, and She uses it for her Chinese soap operas, that's about it  

I still haven't bitten the bullet to make a Win 10 install for the main PC, but since I need to reload this one sometime anyway (it's been 5 years), I'll probably do both the same weekend. Get the Win7 done, image it with IFW, upgrade to 10, image that after locking that bitch down, and then re-roll the 7 image back and stroll on


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## Kadano (Mar 6, 2016)

qubit said:


> @Kadano It does sound like a driver issue you've got there. I had a quick google and found this forum thread that's apparently got a solution for this:
> 
> www.sevenforums.com/sound-audio/192283-dpc-latency-spikes.html
> 
> ...


Thank you for the reply and for the welcome. I've been a fan of TPU for quite some time, the graphics card reviews here are the absolute best.

I have tried many different drivers for both the integrated audio, the network drivers and the sound card. I also disabled every non-essential device in my system. None of these helped. The solution in the thread you linked seemingly was that the OP had used PCIe power connectors for the mainboard. I heavily doubt that this is the culprit for my system, since I made sure to use the correct pin headers for GPU and mainboard, and also don't have the problem under Windows 8.1 without changing the hardware.

I do have to admit that I'm having another weird issue that might be related. Ever since switching from an AMD 6870 to a NVidia GTX 950, I haven't been able to boot into Windows with the display activating while the BIOS is set to primary graphics adapter = PCIe. If I set it to Integrated, it boots fine. This is true even after several complete Windows reinstalls, so I guess it's a motherboard problem. Maybe it still tries to initiate the old graphics card and fails to get the new one to communicate properly.
Still, since Windows 8 doesn't have the latency problem, I'm still inclined that Windows 10 is at fault. Maybe it has to do with the Sandy Bridge integrated graphics too, which supposedly are not supported that well by Windows 10.


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## Jetster (Mar 6, 2016)

Its not completely polished like 7 is. Still some little issues, Start menu items, Edge, network sharing.


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 6, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> Even if you disable driver updating, WIndows 10 will disregard that and still auto update graphic drivers and also auto install them whether you like it or not.



And you have got to be the only person this is happening to.  That's the one thing MS stopped months ago.  Auto update of graphics drivers was my number one complaint at release, but it lasted a grand total of 2 months.


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## Vayra86 (Mar 6, 2016)

I upgraded about two months ago and so far so good, although I did experience somewhat reduced in-game FPS stability. Windows 10 does still do things in the background when system is not idling, sometimes. Not a fan of that, it only happens in games that run borderless windowed btw.

Windows 10 also destroyed my GPU overclock, but I can live with that.

But I've got a spare Win 7 license just in case...


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## RejZoR (Mar 6, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> And you have got to be the only person this is happening to.  That's the one thing MS stopped months ago.  Auto update of graphics drivers was my number one complaint at release, but it lasted a grand total of 2 months.



Well, then I'm the only one. When I've uninstalled ForceWare, first thing it happened on system reboot, latest version got installed by itself. And exactly the same BS on AMD E-450 laptop which I'm raging about since Win10 release...


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 6, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> Turned what off? Driver updating? I'm surprised to say I'm the first (and apparently only) person to know that doens't work at all. Even if you disable driver updating, WIndows 10 will disregard that and still auto update graphic drivers and also auto install them whether you like it or not. It is IMPOSSIBLE to to make a clean driver install now.



I have not had my drivers auto updated since the first week i updated to Win 10. Idk what the deal is with yours but ive been able maintain the same drivers that ive installed manually.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 6, 2016)

If you're still having issues with Windows 10 then either you don't know WTF you are doing or your rig is fubard junk.


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## LightningJR (Mar 6, 2016)

TheMailMan78 said:


> If you're still having issues with Windows 10 then either you don't know WTF you are doing or your rig is fubard junk.



We don't all have mailman money to blow on the best shit... god....


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## Kadano (Mar 6, 2016)

Also, I don't really see how you can blame the issue I'm having on my hardware or my actions considering it's present in a fresh Win 10 install, but gone entirely after installing Windows 8 again.


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## qubit (Mar 6, 2016)

Caring1 said:


> I'd answer the Poll, but it won't allow a Yes, and No.
> I have a few systems and only one is "upgraded" to W10.


You should vote Yes, since even one system out of many counts as a yes here. 

@Kadano I'm not sure where the problem is other than drivers. Have you got the latest BIOS installed on the motherboard? This can make a difference sometimes and especially as you've seen this glitch when changing graphics card brands.


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## Kadano (Mar 6, 2016)

qubit said:


> @Kadano I'm not sure where the problem is other than drivers. Have you got the latest BIOS installed on the motherboard? This can make a difference sometimes and especially as you've seen this glitch when changing graphics card brands.


Thank you for the suggestion, however I have already been using 1.80 BIOS in Windows 10, which is the latest version for the Z77 Pro4. 
I'm fine like that though, I didn't come here to expect help. I just wanted to let other people know that hardware that works flawlessly in Windows 7 and 8.1 will not necessarily do the same in Windows 10. 
I have spent more than a week searching for driver culprits. I do not want to get into that again; I've accepted that this machine should stay at 8.1.


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## qubit (Mar 6, 2016)

Kadano said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, however I have already been using 1.80 BIOS in Windows 10, which is the latest version for the Z77 Pro4.
> I'm fine like that though, I didn't come here to expect help. I just wanted to let other people know that hardware that works flawlessly in Windows 7 and 8.1 will not necessarily do the same in Windows 10.
> I have spent more than a week searching for driver culprits. I do not want to get into that again; I've accepted that this machine should stay at 8.1.


Oh yeah, there's always some odd combination of hardware that won't work with the latest Windows and it's always frustrating when this happens. With any luck these problems will be ironed out in time.

Long shot, but you could try this: use another PCI-E slot for the graphics card. If it works properly there, that might tell you something about the nature of the problem.

Also, if you start a thread on these specific problems, you'll probably find that you get quite a lot of suggestions on how to fix it, some of which might work. Worth a go anyway.


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## PCGamerDR (Mar 7, 2016)

I've upgraded 5 PCs and only one of them, a Dell laptop had some weird wi-fi driver issues, it goes into airplane mode by itself at random intervals, it was switched back to win8.1 and the problem went away.


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## qubit (Mar 7, 2016)

PCGamerDR said:


> I've upgraded 5 PCs and only one of them, a Dell laptop had some weird wi-fi driver issues, it goes into airplane mode by itself at random intervals, it was switched back to win8.1 and the problem went away.


Sounds like you need a driver update.


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## R-T-B (Mar 7, 2016)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> You havent turned that shit off?



He said he did.  "Windows Update Minitool" & " block all that shit" should be evidence of such.


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## qubit (Mar 7, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> He said he did.  "Windows Update Minitool" & " block all that shit" should be evidence of such.


I wonder if perhaps that tool isn't so effective at blocking this and O&O shutup10 is better?

@RejZoR Why don't you give it a try and see if that fixes the problem? It's free so you can't lose.


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## R-T-B (Mar 7, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> Turned what off? Driver updating? I'm surprised to say I'm the first (and apparently only) person to know that doens't work at all. Even if you disable driver updating, WIndows 10 will disregard that and still auto update graphic drivers and also auto install them whether you like it or not. It is IMPOSSIBLE to to make a clean driver install now.



I missed this.  You need to set driver updating to disabled with Group Policy.  Even then, yes, it will still download the "best" driver at some point.  An easy fix to this is before a driver update, to switch the basic display driver.  It will then accept that as your override and not attempt to override that.



qubit said:


> I wonder if perhaps that tool isn't so effective at blocking this and O&O shutup10 is better?



Pretty sure O&O has nothing to do with automatic updates and more to do with anti-spying measures, but could be wrong.  I don't care about the spying personally (though I do object to it as a moral policy) so I don't use it.  Minitool only handles manual updates, nothing more on it's own.


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## qubit (Mar 7, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> Pretty sure O&O has nothing to do with automatic updates and more to do with anti-spying measures, but could be wrong. I don't care about the spying personally (though I do object to it as a moral policy) so I don't use it. Minitool only handles manual updates, nothing more on it's own.


It does kill off the updates among many other things. Great thing is everything can be toggled on/off at will. Give it a try, there's nothing to install and I think you'll like it. 

I've turned off that privacy invading stuff. That and the auto driver updates are what I use it for mainly.


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## 95Viper (Mar 7, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> Pretty sure O&O has nothing to do with automatic updates and more to do with anti-spying measures, but could be wrong.



Yes, it does and more.

O&O ShutUp10

Quote from their site:



> *More control over your operating system *
> 
> Adapt your security settings
> Protect your privacy
> ...


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## AsRock (Mar 7, 2016)

Until you installed a fresh copy of win10 your not running all win10 default options, for example shutdown after a updating to win10 will show the up time as it's only hibernated were as a a clean install of win10 will reset that up time when pressing the shutdown button.

Updated laptop to win10 and finally the other system without issue's, the AMD 450 APU will stay on Win 7 probably for ever as it goes from being able to play video's to a door stop.


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## cdawall (Mar 7, 2016)

I have 10 on some and 7 on others depends on the rig. I have two more or less identical AMD APU setups I am currently testing to see which is actually faster.


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## Melvis (Mar 7, 2016)

after the amount of troubles ive had with clients PC's (desktop and laptops) coming in and with my own i7 rig ive stayed away from W10 for now and most likely wont upgrade to it until 2020 unless microshaft bring out something to replace 10 with (good chance the way things are going) Just havent had a good experiences with it so far to justify moving to it full time just yet.


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## Kursah (Mar 7, 2016)

Been on 10 from day one, all my home PC's, expanded to family PC's, my work laptop (my work workstation is Ubuntu 15, primarily a testbed and backup storage device), now I just need to upgrade my server to 2016. Plus I've deployed and upgraded dozens in SOHO and larger professional environments with great success. Can't see a reason to go back to anything older unless the hardware isn't properly supported.


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## OneMoar (Mar 7, 2016)

there is a stack of core2 laptops sitting next to me that I loaded with windows 10 ... various models older dells,hps a few acers
none of them have had a issue outside of a few of the dells having a a ancient and unsupported wifi G card

everyone runs and points the finger at microsoft when a new version of windows comes out and suddenly their 5 year old laptop that they never did any maintenance on or ever bothered to clean,that they went ahead and did a upgrade install on suddenly runs like frozen dogshit .... I pity not those fools


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## Vayra86 (Mar 7, 2016)

95Viper said:


> Yes, it does and more.
> 
> O&O ShutUp10
> 
> Quote from their site:



In all honesty it's this kind of application that fucks royally with your Windows installations, I am quite convinced of that.

I've always stayed far away from this kind of hooking into the kernel and update policies. If I really don't like a KB, I manually remove it, but MS has (among its errors over time) also a pretty tremendous track record of improving Windows, I mean look at where W7 is right now. You can run that OS without a single third party half-finished app that takes its own system resources and kicks the Windows kernel in the groin from time to time.

It is for that reason alone that I skipped W8/8.1 altogether. I'm not scrapping together a Start Menu from 3rd party apps.

In over 10 years the amount of Windows issues I've had has been extremely minimal and 95% of them was hardware related, so that goes to show you don't need this bloatware. Much better to invest some time to keep Windows in line through its own baked in toolsets.


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## RejZoR (Mar 7, 2016)

It's not "hooking" into kernel. It's just setting the registry switches and group policies.


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## EarthDog (Mar 7, 2016)

To answer the OP - Painless... been on W10 as an insider for many many months prior to its public release. Few to no issues.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Mar 7, 2016)

All my pc's except my HTPC have been upgraded to Windows 10...I am still waiting on silicon dust to release a working DVR program for encrypted channels..was supposed to be released last September for $30 a year and its still in beta without the ability to record encrypted channels at $60


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## Sasqui (Mar 7, 2016)

qubit said:


> So, what's your upgrade experience been like?



Going to task manager in Windows 7 and killing the Win 10 upgrade notifications.  That's about it.


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## alucasa (Mar 24, 2016)

The only nagging issue I had recently was Windows overtaking media applications to its default program. For an example, I use Gomplayer and it kept on resetting its file associations.

It seems MS has ... corrected it now. That nagging issue lasted about 2 months. It almost feels like MS throws those issues intentionally to see how people react and how fast they notice.

Other than that, almost all my rigs & laptops are on Win 10. I don't use any other 3rd party programs that meddle with updates and whatnot. I don't really care if it updates drivers on its own, either.


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## qubit (Mar 25, 2016)

alucasa said:


> It seems MS has ... corrected it now. That nagging issue lasted about 2 months. It almost feels like MS throws those issues intentionally to see how people react and how fast they notice.


I'll second that, they try to push the boundaries a lot. I remember when they tried it on with Vista over licensing of retail copies. The initial version said that it could be transferred one time only. The outcry was huge with that one and they backed down pretty quickly.


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## lonewolf (Mar 25, 2016)

Would like to know how to keep win 10 from phoning home etc where can I find the info. I have 10 only on one pc at the moment until I figure it all out


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## Toothless (Mar 25, 2016)

Might split a HDD into two partitions on my little AM1 rig and run Win10 there, but I'm not too convinced just yet unless vram stacking on SLI kicked in.


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 25, 2016)

lonewolf said:


> Would like to know how to keep win 10 from phoning home etc where can I find the info. I have 10 only on one pc at the moment until I figure it all out



Check out the link in Mussels signature.  There he has listed a couple programs that stop that, as well as a windows update program.  They all work flawlessly.


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## OneMoar (Mar 25, 2016)

you can turn the telemetry off and configure windows update not to install or reboot
but for fracks sake don't turn it off
people doing that shit are why microsoft is ramming it down our throats
the script you want is here https://gist.github.com/alirobe/7f3b34ad89a159e6daa1 copy/paste save as .ps1
people turning updates off is just gonna lead to more frankin-build systems with installations so Fked up you will never be-able to figure out what is causing problem X or even if you have a actual problem  
*I don't know how this works so I am simply going to turn it off" people like that make our jobs are techs 10x harder than it needs to be


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## apoklyps3 (Mar 25, 2016)

windows 10 might as well be called skynet v1.0


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## R-T-B (Mar 25, 2016)

apoklyps3 said:


> windows 10 might as well be called skynet v1.0



Can't us Windows 10 haters be respectful and post in one of the numerous Windows 10 hate threads?

I say this as a staunch critic of Windows 10 policies since day 1...


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## apoklyps3 (Mar 25, 2016)

well it's almost 1 years since the first stable version is out and stuttering,dpc latency, audio glitches are still there.
nothing is improved unless it's a new spying "telemetry" method.
even dx12 is a major fiasco so far.
let's say things by their name, not hide the dirt under the carpet.


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## R-T-B (Mar 25, 2016)

apoklyps3 said:


> even dx12 is a major fiasco so far.



Elaborate.  We've seen about as much adoption as can be expected in this timeframe, I think...  Actually more than usual for a low level API.


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## TheGuruStud (Mar 25, 2016)

Update? Ha! I had it installed for 2 months and there wasn't much of problem with app compatibility, but it was unstable. Random BSODs occasionally. No, thanks, reverted back to 8 system image.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Mar 25, 2016)

I've used 10 a year now, with no start add-on and updates on ,but with a Local account and grassing turned off, and no issues that exceeded any I had on windows 7 so far.


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## apoklyps3 (Mar 25, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> Elaborate.  We've seen about as much adoption as can be expected in this timeframe, I think...  Actually more than usual for a low level API.


we were promised that dx12 will improve your performance in games. so far we have seen none of that in the games that support it: tomb raider , gears of war.
if anything your performance is the same as in dx11 mode, but mostly it's worse.


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 25, 2016)

apoklyps3 said:


> we were promised that dx12 will improve your performance in games. so far we have seen none of that in the games that support it: tomb raider , gears of war.
> if anything your performance is the same as in dx11 mode, but mostly it's worse.



Well, DX12 is still young.  If anyone expected DX12 to be gone hog-wild right away, then they were deceiving themselves.  I said from the beginning that adoption and implementation would be slow.

Rise of the Tomb Raider had DX12 added ONTO the game, after the fact.  If you think that's a good way to implement it, then you are mistaken.  It's just not going to work as well as if they had made it that way from the beginning.

As to Gears of War....well, they took a 10 year old DX10 title, and tried to shoehorn it into DX12, AND running through the Windows Store.  There is no way THAT implementation of DX12 was going to be awesome.


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## qubit (Mar 25, 2016)

TheGuruStud said:


> Update? Ha! I had it installed for 2 months and there wasn't much of problem with app compatibility, but it was unstable. Random BSODs occasionally. No, thanks, reverted back to 8 system image.


How long ago did you use it? If it wasn't within the last 3-4 months then that version would have been a lot more buggy than what we have now. Mine's been fine over the last three weeks since I installed it.

I suggest that you give it another go.


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## TheGuruStud (Mar 25, 2016)

qubit said:


> How long ago did you use it? If it wasn't within the last 3-4 months then that version would have been a lot more buggy than what we have now. Mine's been fine over the last three weeks since I installed it.
> 
> I suggest that you give it another go.



Summer. It's not worth trying, again. Obi Wan Vulkanobi is my only hope.


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## R-T-B (Mar 25, 2016)

apoklyps3 said:


> we were promised that dx12 will improve your performance in games. so far we have seen none of that in the games that support it: tomb raider , gears of war.
> if anything your performance is the same as in dx11 mode, but mostly it's worse.



Your quoting Windows Store games...  Ashes of the Singularity is an example of improvement, working brand multi-GPU, etc.  It's not a Windows Store game though, which is why it's a better example.  Windows Store pretty much makes it automatically suck.


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## apoklyps3 (Mar 25, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> Your quoting Windows Store games...  Ashes of the Singularity is an example of improvement, working brand multi-GPU, etc.  It's not a Windows Store game though, which is why it's a better example.  Windows Store pretty much makes it automatically suck.


ain't that cute, but it's WRONG!
Tomb Raider is both steam and windows store game. terrible dx12 performance with both.
if dx12 is not ready to do what they promised why launch it? nobody cares about Ahes of the singularity. it's not advanced graphics game.


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## R-T-B (Mar 25, 2016)

apoklyps3 said:


> ain't that cute, but it's WRONG!
> Tomb Raider is both steam and windows store game. terrible dx12 performance with both.
> if dx12 is not ready to do what they promised why launch it? nobody cares about Ahes of the singularity. it's not advanced graphics game.



It's a low level API.  You have to know how to use it.  You are basically blaming early adopters for failing to use the API properly, which will happen often I guarantee you.  Vulkan is having the same growing pains.
This is the nature of both APIs, it does not make them a failure.

I will admit I was wrong about Tomb Raider (it happens more often than you'd think), I didn't play it so didn't know.  Never understood that series personally. 

My point still stands on GoW.  Windows store games don't even support turning off vsync.

Anyhow, Ashes of the Singularity is proof it does work, like it or not.  You just have to know how to work the API at the metal.  As an actual developer who has worked on a few games, I'll fully admit that's difficult and requires something beyond my skill set.  Personally, I'd use DX11 because even it's level of abstraction is at times tough.  I guarantee you DX12 programmers cost a pretty penny, and if you try to shoehorn someone in who doesn't really know what they are doing, it WILL suck.


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## qubit (Mar 25, 2016)

TheGuruStud said:


> Summer. It's not worth trying, again. Obi Wan Vulkanobi is my only hope.


Well that says it all. The W10 available then was far rougher around the edges then than now since there have been hundreds of updates under the hood, so a retry would definitely be in order. It sounds like you just don't want to run it rather than it actually causing you problems. That's obviously fine if you just don't want it, but be honest about why, because it's certainly not because it will screw up your computer.


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## R-T-B (Mar 25, 2016)

Just to break my own rule about not being a spoil sport (I do this all the time, I'm no saint), and prove I am still a windows 10 critic, I decided to see if they've unborked regedit's search function yet.

They haven't.  It still freezes when searching the registry, woo.


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## TheGuruStud (Mar 25, 2016)

qubit said:


> Well that says it all. The W10 available then was far rougher around the edges then than now since there have been hundreds of updates under the hood, so a retry would definitely be in order. It sounds like you just don't want to run it rather than it actually causing you problems. That's obviously fine if you just don't want it, but be honest about why, because it's certainly not because it will screw up your computer.



Oh, cmon, now, windows will nearly always screw up. It's just a matter of time. Last spring I had to keep restoring from images b/c I would come home to a BSOD and it wouldn't boot. Updates don't mean jack to me. If it's that buggy at launch, then it's going to take years to fix.


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## qubit (Mar 25, 2016)

TheGuruStud said:


> Oh, cmon, now, windows will nearly always screw up. It's just a matter of time. Last spring I had to keep restoring from images b/c I would come home to a BSOD and it wouldn't boot. Updates don't mean jack to me. If it's that buggy at launch, then it's going to take years to fix.


Well, that's not my experience and not of many others. XP was fairly stable, but Windows got really stable from 7. You can't just say the updates don't mean jack, that's ridiculous. It's a fact that they improve Windows stability a great deal. No, you don't want W10 because you just don't like it and that's fine, I'm not here to try and change your mind. You can't claim that it's because it will screw up your computer however, because it just won't.


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## apoklyps3 (Mar 25, 2016)

the worst problem by far is the buzzing (stutter) when playing media or gaming while also having a torrent client active.
it drives me nuts that microsoft has yet to fix this crap.
all well on 7 and 8.1, but not on 10.


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## Grings (Mar 25, 2016)

Its been fine for me, a few bugs but i have had the same with every windows i have ever owned when they are new, its the nature of an os being new, most of the time its older hardware or 3rd party software causing it anyway

tinfoil hats!


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## Drone (Mar 25, 2016)

Registry search works pretty good for me. Never crashes. The only thing that crashes in W10 is Edge. It happens not quite often, usually with heavy sites.


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## Frick (Mar 25, 2016)

Grings said:


> Its been fine for me, a few bugs but i have had the same with every windows i have ever owned when they are new, its the nature of an os being new, most of the time its older hardware or 3rd party software causing it anyway
> 
> tinfoil hats!



Aye a modern OS is a complicated beast so it's hard to tell exactly what is messing things up. When I was a tech support (that was a while ago though) a first step was always to uninstall whatever AV they had, and surprisingly often that solved the issue. Or rather it didn't, but then we could tell them to contact their AV supplier, which always felt good.


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## R-T-B (Mar 25, 2016)

Drone said:


> Registry search works pretty good for me. Never crashes. The only thing that crashes in W10 is Edge. It happens not quite often, usually with heavy sites.



It'll crash on any install that isn't "fresh," ie has upgraded in some form to a new build.  If you started on 10240 and updated to TH2, you have this bug.  It's due to long strings the upgrade process makes in the registry, and they broke long string handling.

And yeah, it'll work for finding things up to the long strings.  But search the whole registry for something that doesn't exist for example, so it has to parse the whole thing?  It'll freeze.


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## Drone (Mar 25, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> It'll crash on any install that isn't "fresh," ie has upgraded in some form to a new build.  If you started on 10240 and updated to TH2, you have this bug.  It's due to long strings the upgrade process makes in the registry, and they broke long string handling.
> 
> And yeah, it'll work for finding things up to the long strings.  But search the whole registry for something that doesn't exist for example, so it has to parse the whole thing?  It'll freeze.



I didn't know that so I just went and checked that. My build isn't 'fresh' [upgraded to 14291]. I started to search for some long non-existent string







Registry search didn't crash but it goes on forever without saying that nothing was found with constant 30% cpu usage. What an annoying bug


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## R-T-B (Mar 25, 2016)

Drone said:


> I didn't know that so I just went and checked that. My build isn't 'fresh' [upgraded to 14291]. I started to search for some long non-existent string
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep, that's what I meant by "crash."  Technically it's an infinite loop not a crash, but it's equally annoying.

Ms has it on the bugtracker though, so it will be fixed eventually.


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## trog100 (Mar 26, 2016)

i trust my win 10 install enough to feel the need to keep a full system drive image back up no more than couple of weeks old.. if it f-cks up its a ten minute job to revert back to it..

trog


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## lonewolf (Mar 26, 2016)

Drone said:


> Registry search works pretty good for me. Never crashes. The only thing that crashes in W10 is Edge. It happens not quite often, usually with heavy sites.


I quit using edge and went back to regular explorer. Edge is a nice concept but still needs work especially on lower end machines.


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## Drone (Mar 26, 2016)

lonewolf said:


> I quit using edge and went back to regular explorer. Edge is a nice concept but still needs work especially on lower end machines.


Yes, unfortunately Edge looks like it was designed for phones and not desktops. It's pretty quick with some sites while it's really bad with others. Its download manager is a joke and it's definitely the worst pdf reader I've ever used. Opening giant pdfs with Edge simply eats 100% cpu and lots of RAM.

In the meanwhile IE in the latest Windows 10 is extremely fast and has no memory leaks.

Btw in the latest build (14295) Windows Search is better and quicker than before. I'm glad MS optimized it and it's not buggy anymore. In previous builds if you looked for some filename (or part of the filename) sometimes it returned zero results. You had to use wildcards like crazy. Now it's working like it should!


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## qubit (Mar 26, 2016)

Drone said:


> In the meanwhile IE in the latest Windows 10 is extremely fast and has no memory leaks.


Yes, it's weird how developing a new version of a product can mean that Microsoft unlearn everything put into the old one and release a buggy mess that needs years to get up to the level of the old product. Makes no sense to me.


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## Drone (Mar 26, 2016)

qubit said:


> Yes, it's weird how developing a new version of a product can mean that Microsoft unlearn everything put into the old one and release a buggy mess that needs years to get up to the level of the old product. Makes no sense to me.


Because Internet Explorer got really infamous and MS just wants to get red of it. It's like Vista or Millennium.  Someone posts some shit in the internet and it spreads all over the world. Remember when every idiot and his wife posted meme or some other crap everywhere about IE or Vista, Windows 8 or WinME. Most of the time all that harsh crap about them was totally unjustified. But yeah, it's _teh itnerwebz, _everyone is a journalist/reviewer/critic and knows everything lol


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## qubit (Mar 26, 2016)

Drone said:


> Because Internet Explorer got really infamous and MS just wants to get red of it.


Well, I dunno about that. All they had to do was rebrand it, change the interface and the features a bit, called it "new and improved!" like soap powder and the masses would have drunk the koolaid willingly.

Whatever, all I know is that it opens my online banking PDF statements perfectly.


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## BigPaPaRu (Mar 27, 2016)

qubit said:


> All they had to do was rebrand it, change the interface and the features a bit, called it "new and improved!" like soap powder and the masses would have drunk the koolaid willingly



I thought that was Edge

I've upgraded 4 of my PC's and countless friends PC. I like it, Takes a little getting used to but very functional. Did run into problems with two computers, one gave me a permanent blue screen and the other erased the hard drive. I still do not understand what happened and why this happened. Very frustrating to say the least.


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## TRWOV (Mar 27, 2016)

I'm happy to report that I've got 0 issues with W10 so far. I upgraded all my eligible PCs right after release with the Media Creation tool except for my retro rigs (865/875/nf3 chipsets). I had an insider build installed on my main PC so I already knew what I had coming.




RejZoR said:


> Turned what off? Driver updating? I'm surprised to say I'm the first (and apparently only) person to know that doens't work at all. Even if you disable driver updating, WIndows 10 will disregard that and still auto update graphic drivers and also auto install them whether you like it or not. It is IMPOSSIBLE to to make a clean driver install now.



I don't know if that's what helped me but right after doing the upgrade I run a full system refresh. Back when I first installed W10 insider on my machine I had some problems like that (settings that wouldn't stick, random resets even if I told the OS to shutdown, etc, etc) but after doing a clean install via the refresh feature everything worked fine.


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## -1nf1n1ty- (Mar 27, 2016)

qubit said:


> So, what's your upgrade experience been like?



I upgraded once and my RAM died. I took out the faulty RAM stick and turned on my PC, only to find out that my copy of windows was not genuine anymore. Talking to a MS employee, they told me that because I took out a stick of ram, windows 10 thinks it's a new computer therefore not genuine....lol. I ended up returning to windows 8.1 for a while after I got a new set of RAM sticks, and have recently went back to w10 with no problems. I don't think I would have upgraded if it wasnt for DX12, I guess it's a nice upgrade though


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