# Windows 7 and 8.1 also spying on it's users?



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Aug 31, 2015)

> Laughing at Microsoft MSFT +0.00%’s controversial data mining and privacy invasions within Windows 10? Well Windows 7 and Windows 8 users should laugh no longer as this most hated spying is now headed your way…
> 
> Software specialist site gHacks has discovered that Microsoft has pushed four new updates to both Windows 7 and Windows 8 which introduce new data collecting and user behaviour tracking features.
> 
> ...


Source

At least with 7 and 8 you can uninstall it and hide the update. You just have to be aware of their existence. Which many, many users will not be.


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## R-T-B (Aug 31, 2015)

I can't say I'm surprised.  This is a philosophy change, it's not the reason they were "giving" Windows 10 away as many claimed.

Still bothersome...  but I've ranted about that enough.


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Aug 31, 2015)

Ugh. Just realized i put an apostrophe in "its".


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 31, 2015)

I figured that's what they were when i read them. They are optional updates, and looked like an excuse to spy, so i hid them.


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## qubit (Aug 31, 2015)

Thanks for the heads up. Gonna uninstall them.


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## EarthDog (Aug 31, 2015)

qubit said:


> Thanks for the heads up. Gonna uninstall them.


Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! Now THAT was about the best post I have heard since I saw these threads at my home site and here... Good times.

Qubit, want to go halfsies on tin foil hats?


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## TheMailMan78 (Aug 31, 2015)




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## silkstone (Aug 31, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


>



When the government secretly collects data on you, its a big deal, but when a company collects data, that's no problem?


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## AsRock (Aug 31, 2015)

This is why you should check what the updates are for, in case some thing is being installed that you do not agree with.  Simple as clicking the update and clicking the link to it.

I found none of on my system, i did find on in optional which was the KB3080149 which is a 16.9MB download
.https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080149


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## TheMailMan78 (Aug 31, 2015)

silkstone said:


> When the government secretly collects data on you, its a big deal, but when a company collects data, that's no problem?


I stopped caring about a month ago. People want socialism. They want "free" stuff yet they don't want the government to spy on them to make sure people are not cheating the system.....they want their cake and eat it too. I don't care anymore. People are stupid and at this point as long as they don't come in my yard the world can burn.

Spy on me all you want at this point. There is nothing I can do to stop ya. Come in my yard and catch a bullet.


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## Jborg (Aug 31, 2015)

I blame George bush. Whenever 
Your mad. Just blame it on him.


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Aug 31, 2015)

AsRock said:


> This is why you should check what the updates are for, in case some thing is being installed that you do not agree with.  Simple as clicking the update and clicking the link to it.
> 
> I found none of on my system, i did find on in optional which was the KB3080149 which is a 16.9MB download
> .https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080149


It wont be as simple as that anymore as very soon (if they havent already) Microsoft is no longer going to explain what the updates to do your system.


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## rtwjunkie (Aug 31, 2015)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> It wont be as simple as that anymore as very soon (if they havent already) Microsoft is no longer going to explain what the updates to do your system.


 
On previous edition of Windows the link is still there, because updates aren't forced.  I check each time updates are released.


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## AsRock (Aug 31, 2015)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> It wont be as simple as that anymore as very soon (if they havent already) Microsoft is no longer going to explain what the updates to do your system.



Well as i am not going be a Win10 user on any of our systems it's not going be a issue, well for at least until next year.

By that time maybe enough people would of complained and they will change it (HA).


And as seen there is only ARK going be on DX12 which offers 20% improvement it's not going be worth it as if your getting 20-30fps that's only a few fps extra so.

That game need such a performance boost makes me feel like it's never going happen. But if they can pull of what UBI did with FarCry 4 and make it look and play as well as that i be totally impressed but not holding my breath for it.


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## Frick (Aug 31, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I stopped caring about a month ago. People want socialism. They want "free" stuff yet they don't want the government to spy on them to make sure people are not cheating the system.....they want their cake and eat it too. I don't care anymore. People are stupid and at this point as long as they don't come in my yard the world can burn.
> 
> Spy on me all you want at this point. There is nothing I can do to stop ya. Come in my yard and catch a bullet.



You're retarded and I love about 70% of the stuff coming out of your brain.

I never install updates automatically anyway and never bother with optional updates, but shall look out for them anyway. I wonder how they're pushed in different regions, in the past some updates marked "important" in the US was market only optional for me (schweden).


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## HTC (Sep 1, 2015)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> Source
> 
> At least with 7 and 8 you can uninstall it and hide the update. You just have to be aware of their existence. Which many, many users will not be.



Thanks for the heads up!

2 were already installed and one was pending: uninstalled the 2 and hid all 3 + windows 10 update, again (it un-hid itself ...).


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## Blue-Knight (Sep 1, 2015)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> Windows 7 and 8.1 also spying on it's users?


All versions.


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## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I stopped caring about a month ago. People want socialism. They want "free" stuff yet they don't want the government to spy on them to make sure people are not cheating the system.....they want their cake and eat it too. I don't care anymore. People are stupid and at this point as long as they don't come in my yard the world can burn.
> 
> Spy on me all you want at this point. There is nothing I can do to stop ya. Come in my yard and catch a bullet.



You should still care.  If you don't care, don't cry when the government comes into your yard with bigger guns because they don't like something you've been doing.

No we aren't there yet, but it's heading that way.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> You should still care.  If you don't care, don't cry when the government comes into your yard with bigger guns because they don't like something you've been doing.
> 
> No we aren't there yet, but it's heading that way.


If the government comes to my yard with guns to kill me, I doubt its because I installed a patch from Microsoft. But, if they do and I survive I'm so switching to Linux.


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## cadaveca (Sep 1, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its a riot!














R-T-B said:


> You should still care.  If you don't care, don't cry when the government comes into your yard with bigger guns because they don't like something you've been doing.
> 
> No we aren't there yet, but it's heading that way.


It's pretty easy to avoid doing anything that'd have the gov knocking on your door. The law books are a good basis for how you should behave... but maybe that's just me.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> You should still care.  If you don't care, don't cry when the government comes into your yard with bigger guns because they don't like something you've been doing.
> 
> No we aren't there yet, but it's heading that way.



Dont do anything shadey/illegal and you shouldn't have problems. All I do it check facebook, forums, and play games on my system. Why should I care if they can see what I'm doing when I'm doing average Joe shit.


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## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

> Dont do anything shadey/illegal and you shouldn't have problems.



Who decides what's shadey/illegal?

It's a problem of transfering too much control over your life to an institution that has historically been less than trustworthy with things such as civil rights.

I don't have anything interesting about me that they would want either.  Doesn't change the point.



TheMailMan78 said:


> If the government comes to my yard with guns to kill me, I doubt its because I installed a patch from Microsoft. But, if they do and I survive I'm so switching to Linux.



Ok, they'll come with guns to take away your guns because you posted about your guns.

They'll also check me because I said "guns" 3 times or more.

See?


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 1, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Dont do anything shadey/illegal and you shouldn't have problems. All I do it check facebook, forums, and play games on my system. Why should I care if they can see what I'm doing when I'm doing average Joe shit.


Listen these guys have a point......but it makes no difference. They are gonna get you if they want you. I choose to hide in plane sight........plus if I do something shady it wouldn't be on my computer or anything connected to the internet.


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## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Listen these guys have a point......but it makes no difference. They are gonna get you if they want you. I choose to hide in plane sight........plus if I do something shady it wouldn't be on my computer or anything connected to the internet.



I agree that we have little chance at making a difference, and that anyone doing stuff the goverment hates online is not...  bright.  But, that does not mean you should not use freedom of speech and mark your opposition to these things, while we still have it.

That also means you shouldn't shoot down people who do decide to do so with cute internet memes.  That's the greatest enemy we could have.  You should praise them for trying to fight a fruitless war despite all odds, if anything.


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## cadaveca (Sep 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> That also means you shouldn't shoot down people who do decide to do so with cute internet memes.  That's the greatest enemy we could have.  You should praise them for trying to fight a fruitless war despite all odds, if anything.




Becoming a lobbyist and actually enacting change would be a far better use of that energy. Otherwise it's all just hot air. Myself, for an example... I don't own a cell phone. I refuse to carry a personal tracking device that nearly anyone that complains about this "loss of liberty" does, making them rather hypocritical.


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## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Becoming a lobbyist and actually enacting change would be a far better use of that energy. Otherwise it's all just hot air. Myself, for an example... I don't own a cell phone. I refuse to carry a personal tracking device that nearly anyone that complains about this "loss of liberty" does, making them rather hypocritical.



I don't have anything to hide, so the loss of liberty does not *personally* (as in, on a personal basis) bother me one bit.

I'm also running Windows 10.

It bothers me on a conceptual level very much so however.

I don't think I'll ever be the guy that they show up to arrest.  Honestly, the government loves people like me cause they can point to me, that "harmless activist" and claim free speech is alive and well.  As long as only law abiding citizens are talking.

The problem with this logic is, how do the laws ever get changed or adapt to the times, if people doing things presently illegal are afraid to speak up for fear of reprisal?  How does their opinion ever get shown?  Is it irrelevant simply because it's not legal?  Time and time again, history has shown that that is a very dangerous assumption.

Again this does not apply to me, but it is very much a conceptual issue with how our democracy is supposed to function.



> Becoming a lobbyist and actually enacting change would be a far better use of that energy. Otherwise it's all just hot air.



Good luck doing that without endorsement from someone with big pockets...

I told you I didn't want to get started.  Blame mailman.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Who decides what's shadey/illegal?
> 
> It's a problem of transfering too much control over your life to an institution that has historically been less than trustworthy with things such as civil rights.
> 
> ...


I have full control over my life. I do what I want.


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## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> I have full control over my life. I do what I want.



As do I.  It's not about us.  Hell, I live in Washington where if the internet is to be believed, I could smoke pot and go to a horse brothel all in the same 24 hour period (actually, we outlawed the horse thing in 2006, but some things never go away on the internet)...

That's not the point.  The point is you should not make it hard for ostracized groups of ANY kind to have their say, which is precisely what technology like this does.

Me?  I use it because it makes my life easier.  That doesn't make me oblivious to it's problems however.

PS:  Now that you know my homestate and my rhetoric, free thanks if you guess what College I went to.  Hint, it starts with an "E," and you can probably get over the weed DUI limit just by walking near it.

And no, I never smoked.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> As do I.  It's not about us.  Hell, I live in Washington where if the internet is to be believed, I could smoke pot and go to a horse brothel all in the same 24 hour period (actually, we outlawed the horse thing in 2006, but some things never go away on the internet)...
> 
> That's not the point.  The point is you should not make it hard for ostracized groups of ANY kind to have their say, which is precisely what technology like this does.
> 
> ...



Eastern.


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## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Eastern.



Nice try.  More "western."   I added clues.

EDIT:  *Sighs*

Go Geoducks go?

Google that.

@TheMailMan78 , try not to laugh...


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## MxPhenom 216 (Sep 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Nice try.  More "western."   I added clues.
> 
> EDIT:  *Sighs*
> 
> ...


Evergreen State


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## qubit (Sep 1, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Oh don't worry about it man! Thanks for the backup but, I feel the hate and so you know I relish it. I enjoy watching people QQ under the truth that I spit. My favorite is reading the PM's people forward to me. Its a riot!


No, when it comes to me and you, it's always you first with the hating. Don't try to project your hate onto me.


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## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Evergreen State



You win the internet.

Now run for your life:


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> I agree that we have little chance at making a difference, and that anyone doing stuff the goverment hates online is not...  bright.  But, that does not mean you should not use freedom of speech and mark your opposition to these things, while we still have it.
> 
> That also means you shouldn't shoot down people who do decide to do so with cute internet memes.  That's the greatest enemy we could have.  You should praise them for trying to fight a fruitless war despite all odds, if anything.


Supporting "activists" who cry on a tech forum is like supporting a salmon trying to swim up a waterfall.



R-T-B said:


> Ok, they'll come with guns to take away your guns because you posted about your guns.
> 
> They'll also check me because I said "guns" 3 times or more.
> 
> See?


 Guns, Baby bib, murder, terrorist, FBI, CIA, NSA, DEA, EPA, Homeland Security, Chicken McNuggets, IRS and the FDA.

There now they will be caught up in bureaucracy for 15 years trying to figure out who should come get me.


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## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

> There now they will be caught up in bureaucracy for 15 years trying to figure out who should come get me.



I guess we all have to fear the day the government learns SQL queries.

...but wait, you're already fucked.  You put the frickin Chicken McNuggets in the same sentence as all that horseshit.  Corporate America isn't slow.  Ronalds going to open a can of whoopass on you...   

...as soon as he restores his business model to something profitable.

Maybe you'll be just fine.  As will I.  But there's nothing wrong with arguing against something that is wrong on principle.


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## GreiverBlade (Sep 1, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> It's pretty easy to avoid doing anything that'd have the gov knocking on your door. The law books are a good basis for how you should behave... but maybe that's just me.





MxPhenom 216 said:


> I have full control over my life. I do what I want.





MxPhenom 216 said:


> Dont do anything shadey/illegal and you shouldn't have problems. All I do it check facebook, forums, and play games on my system. Why should I care if they can see what I'm doing when I'm doing average Joe shit.



basically ... nothing to fear for me, they can spy all they want ... they will just find it boring after a month or two ... unless they care about what i do with no cd/dvd patch for some old games i _own _but i don't want to use the ext odd or "non standard copy" of games i also _own _and still have the license (that's also called a backup copy and when a securom is in the mix ... non standard is the only standard)

altho this trivial matter (for non paranoids and "clean" peoples ) is not the reason i keep 7 Pro on my desktop and updated 10 pro on my laptop

edit: thanks @cadaveca for the youtube link  i also thought of posting that one for TMM post with "riot" in the sentence


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## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

I'm still convinced the worst enemy to liberty is those asking why people who argue for it are worried.  After all, we have nothing to hide right?

That's not the point.  You argue it to protect the concept, not yourself.

But I'm done here.


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## HTC (Sep 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> I'm still convinced the worst enemy to liberty is those asking why people who argue for it are worried.  After all, we have nothing to hide right?
> 
> *That's not the point.  You argue it to protect the concept, not yourself.*
> 
> But I'm done here.



That's the REAL problem here: the concept is under fire and most are too busy claiming "i don't have anything to hide so i have no problems with this" to notice!


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## Vayra86 (Sep 1, 2015)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Oh don't worry about it man! Thanks for the backup but, I feel the hate and so you know I relish it. I enjoy watching people QQ under the truth that I spit. My favorite is reading the PM's people forward to me. Its a riot!



We could have been brothers, I share the love for that. But we are probably (and luckily) not.


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## Ebo (Sep 1, 2015)

The question for me is more complex than just:

1: got nothing to hide, so I dont care
2: I want my total privacy

Where I live we had a total right to privacy since the last time the constutition was revised bigtime back in 1953. Well thats more than 60 years ago, and we live in another time today. It dosent matter of you are fore it or against it, but thats reality as of today.

Here our secret services have even more loose guidelines than in the US. Here they dont need a warrant to spy on you, all it takes is proper course, thats enough, they dont even have to answer to anyone, because thats all classified.
They can follow you on the net, they can film you and cover your life when ever they want if they have any interest in you for some reason which might be wrong or right. 

You might ask how do I know that, well I worked in our specialforces for 12 years and we are a huge part in our antiterror prepardness and we got whatever we needed on a suspect within minutes, his whole life story and his family, friends and so on. So thats how much privacy means here, it might be right or it might be wrong, that all depends on whos eyes is watching.

Here 1 of our services has a boss who is a bit known in the public, the other service is just secret, its so well hidden that mabye 4-5 people in the whole country has an idea about what they are doing and why and even they dont have the whole picture, thats bigbrother for you in 2015.

Here privacy is like a fart in the wind, it only warms for about 1 second.

The only way you can avoid it here, is going oldschool which means no computer, no smartphone and stay away from places with a camera and only deal in cash, thats just a fantasy today.


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## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

HTC said:


> That's the REAL problem here: the concept is under fire and most are too busy claiming "i don't have anything to hide so i have no problems with this" to notice!



I hate to bring the cliche Martin Niemöller quote into this, but I think I just did.

There's a reason that quote is overused as of late.  It's because there's so many damn parallels in how our society is operating.  It's not Jews this time around no, but the groups that are unpopular are surely going to feel the weight of the kind of social oppression that will result from a monitored society.  Then the danger comes with the government decides to slowly tighten the noose, to extend it to political rivals and such.  It's happened time and time again and still people are blind to it.



> The only way you can avoid it here, is going oldschool which means no computer, no smartphone and stay away from places with a camera and only deal in cash, thats just a fantasy today.



I agree completely.  But I by and large have nothing to hide so I don't care on my personal basis and still use technology.  This does not make me a hypocrite, I can still speak out about injustices even if I myself do not fear such things.

If I really had something to hide, there are so many things that'd send shivers down my spine right now.  It's fortunate I'm fairly popular in the world view, being a white,  heterosexual male who voted for a known party candidate who's currently president.

I mean, let's count the scary shit in our computers now?  Windows 10 doesn't even make the list.

There's vpro shit.  Remote consoles and stuff built into your processor die on many computers that Intel has refused to comment on with regards to it's "backdoor" status.  Nice.

There's that whole HDD firmware iffiness Kaspersky Labs brought up.

Snowden opened a whole can of worms on encryption tech such as industry standard AES ciphers used like, everywhere.

There's the fact that Chrome is the most popular browser and leaks data worse than Windows 10 ever dreamed of.

Windows 10 is still on your list?  If it is I understand, but get your priorities straight and hit them where it hurts if you actually want to fight something.

Get Intel to admit why the heck they won't comment on vPro having a "master key" or backdoor.

Demand proper tools to validate your firmware on your HDD.

Don't use Chrome at all.

Vote for candidates who support privacy rights.

Of course, all this in and of itself may land you on a lightweight digital watch list, but thus are the hazards of modern democracy.


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## GreiverBlade (Sep 1, 2015)

well all the last answer have been right, tho i don't really care about it,

slight derivation from the topic
humans are evil at the core (not all, tho they all share a part of "danger" of becoming it ) and they need to be watched, the irony is... the one who watch is just as evil as the rest are, the bane of all thing is the human being, can we change that? no i don't think so.

unless we can change how human are (aka: wanting to trample and control everything and everybody, ofc again not all are like that )

how i see that, is:
if someone has nothing to be scared of being under watch, then he's not a direct target and his data will just pass by.
if someone is doing anything against a law or against other humans (aka using internet to procure himself poison weapon and such) then he's a prime target and should be investigated, then brought down if the investigation yield a positive result (and not only a suspicion)

i agree on privacy, but you can't be sure the data they mine from you is in good or bad hands ... (again all is a matter of situation, will they use it to frame you? or will they just run some background check to see if you are safe or harmless? again ... humans decide... the result is chaos.)

Apple do it since a long time now, nothing is really new when it come to privacy threat

no need to debate on that opinion ... i know i have issues and i (try to) take care of them ... i just wanted to write that once ...
tho i should worry, since i use Chrome (desktop laptop tablet and smartphone) and updated my laptop to win 10 (tho i use it way less than my desktop)
i am just a Lifeguard who have a computer hobby and order hardware and software online every month.


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## Bundy (Sep 1, 2015)

If Microsoft showed no interest in what I like, then I would be concerned. It is a good thing that they seek to understand me better and deliver what I want in new ways so I will let them have it all.


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## Ebo (Sep 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> But I by and large have nothing to hide so I don't care on my personal basis and still use technology. This does not make me a hypocrite, I can still speak out about injustices even if I myself do not fear such things.



That also my concirn, who is watching the watchers ?. Actually for me its all about me, as an individual and NOT just as a fellow countryman, sexual preference, belif or anything else. Its about my right to be human and be myself, end of story.

I stopped my carreer in 2012, since then a lot of things has, in my eyes, gone from bad to worse, not just only here but all over the western world.
I belive that I live in a free country where old rights like free speach, the right to have my own religion, the right to live *my* life the way I want to without any interferrience from goverment unless I step over the line.....well thats a fantasy today. They store so much data about all of us and it just cant be stopped.

1 Question I have is : Who get access to my personal information and who can use it ?. I hate private compagnies saying that we just track you for giving you an offer you cant refuse.....I *never* asked for it actually I dont want it.
I use all I can to block trackers and stuff that gives away any trace about what I like and why, thats NOT their "problem" thats mine.


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## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

Ebo said:


> That also my concirn, who is watching the watchers ?. Actually for me its all about me, as an individual and NOT just as a fellow countryman, sexual preference, belif or anything else. Its about my right to be human and be myself, end of story.
> 
> I stopped my carreer in 2012, since then a lot of things has, in my eyes, gone from bad to worse, not just only here but all over the western world.
> I belive that I live in a free country where old rights like free speach, the right to have my own religion, the right to live *my* life the way I want to without any interferrience from goverment unless I step over the line.....well thats a fantasy today. They store so much data about all of us and it just cant be stopped.
> ...



Kudos my man.  I don't have anything to hide but if I did, I would still maintain I didn't.  Interesting little thing there, isn't it?  Kind of a result of the society we've formed in the "information age."  Those with "something to hide" (whatever society dictates that is at the time) are more in the closet than ever when asked directly about their activities.  We're more open as a society than ever before in terms of nearly nonconsensual data mining (like this), but let's try an experiment in CONSENSUAL data mining:  Try this: if you actually ask someone face-to-face what they were up to on the internet last night ?  It's almost borderline creepy to ask that now.  Mostly because when you ask that question, people are already assuming you are asking for a reason, ie that they did something wrong.  Product of our age.

And now, maybe I'll truly shut up.  Maybe.


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## GreiverBlade (Sep 1, 2015)

Ebo said:


> the right to live *my* life the way I want to without any interference from government unless I step over the line.....well that's a fantasy today.


well don't you do it already? or did the government interfere with you (if you didn't step over the line)? technically it's what happen today, you can't check if one or another step over the line without background check (thanks to the human nature in the end)

basically that's agreeing with that post: Windows 7 and 8.1 also spying on it's users?



R-T-B said:


> Try this: if you actually ask someone face-to-face what they were up to on the internet last night ?  It's almost borderline creepy to ask that now.  Mostly because when you ask that question, people are already assuming you are asking for a reason, ie that they did something wrong.


well if someone asked me that i would gladly answer the question : i was on Techpowerup as usual ( ) or i was on Skyforge (or any other games) as usual or even, i was browsing some video on youtube, and then "huhuhu what kind of video on youtube?" well you know mostly R-15 MMD clips ... since the R-18 does not last long on YT and... wait are you questioning my morale integrity??? nuh! you have to remove the wifi webcam you did put in my room ASAP! (the last one is a joke ... sorry )


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## brandonwh64 (Sep 1, 2015)

Hell if anyone watched terminator genisys then you should already know whats next.........


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## Easy Rhino (Sep 1, 2015)

Government is too big and corporations are too powerful (thanks to corporatism) to stop anything now. You think elections matter? Ha! Starting preparing now. I would say we have 10-15 years left to prepare before things starting unraveling.


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## qubit (Sep 1, 2015)

Easy Rhino said:


> Government is too big and corporations are too powerful (thanks to corporatism) to stop anything now. You think elections matter? Ha! Starting preparing now. I would say we have 10-15 years left to prepare before things starting unraveling.


Agreed, we've seen nothing yet.


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## cadaveca (Sep 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> I'm still convinced the worst enemy to liberty is those asking why people who argue for it are worried.  After all, we have nothing to hide right?
> 
> That's not the point.  You argue it to protect the concept, not yourself.
> 
> But I'm done here.



I can't rule the world until the NWO takes over, so let's get to destroying freedom and liberty, m'kay?



HTC said:


> That's the REAL problem here: the concept is under fire and most are too busy claiming "i don't have anything to hide so i have no problems with this" to notice!



The concept can die. The world would be a better place, and people might actually respect each other... or they die. The human populace could use some thinning out, and destruction of privacy, and the right to hold personal opinions that are destructive needs to end... by force if needed.



Easy Rhino said:


> Government is too big and corporations are too powerful (thanks to corporatism) to stop anything now. You think elections matter? Ha! Starting preparing now. I would say we have 10-15 years left to prepare before things starting unraveling.



Not likely. If it unravels, the control and money that is made will cease to exist. That's what makes all this the silliest bunch of hoo-ha possible... if it all goes to hell, all those corporations and everything else will crumble. They already have control, and the thought they'd give it up... is clearly mis-guided.

How do you connect to the internet? Through your ISP. So no matter what you do, you hand over your data to you ISP, and just trust they just put it where YOU want it. I have never trusted that, and neither should anyone else, given what you just posted. Let's be realistic, eh?


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## Easy Rhino (Sep 1, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Not likely. If it unravels, the control and money that is made will cease to exist. That's what makes all this the silliest bunch of hoo-ha possible... if it all goes to hell, all those corporations and everything else will crumble. They already have control, and the thought they'd give it up... is clearly mis-guided.
> 
> How do you connect to the internet? Through your ISP. So no matter what you do, you hand over your data to you ISP, and just trust they just put it where YOU want it. I have never trusted that, and neither should anyone else, given what you just posted. Let's be realistic, eh?



I am talking about people actively working to undermine an oppressive government. When that happens the illusion that the powers that be have our best interests in mind will be shattered and it will bring forth an awakening. Once people learn the truth of how they are the frog in the slowly boiling pot of water, they will react. And it will be quick.


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## cadaveca (Sep 1, 2015)

I still believe that the majority of people are inherently good, and that although your idea might have some merit, the idea that we haven't exactly been properly represented in government, no matter what country you are in, has never been accepted. We've all grown up knowing that politicians are liars... so the truth has ALWAYS been out there from where I sit.

So, some corporation wants to manage your data, with the premise that it can help make the world a better place. Those that are good will work towards being open about it, and those that have nefarious motives will not, nullifying each other and leading to the unstable economic situations that the entire world is in right now, and has been, since the mid nineties. We're simply repeating the same cycle over and over again, and everyone still screams "the sky is falling".

Whether we have freedom or not, those in "power" need slaves, and the most productive slaves are those that are well rewarded. So nothing will change. Oh well. I keep paying my bills, and make sure to educate my kids on subjects like this so that when they get older they can step lightly and enjoy life for what it's meant to be.. an enjoyable experience. Privacy doesn't need to be involved in having a good life, at all.


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## Easy Rhino (Sep 1, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Privacy doesn't need to be involved in having a good life, at all.



Disagree. Government collects data to manipulate people. It uses data in other countries to stamp down revolt or to lift up a dictator friendly to the US. The CIA has been found guilty of this many times over. It is just as likely to happen here. The government must be held accountable to the people so that our children won't grow up in a dictatorship. You hold the government accountable by reducing their power and one of doing that is (in the US at least) enforcing the 4th amendment.


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## cadaveca (Sep 1, 2015)

Easy Rhino said:


> Disagree. Government collects data to manipulate people. It uses data in other countries to stamp down revolt or to lift up a dictator friendly to the US. The CIA has been found guilty of this many times over. It is just as likely to happen here. The government must be held accountable to the people so that our children won't grow up in a dictatorship. You hold the government accountable by reducing their power and one of doing that is (in the US at least) enforcing the 4th amendment.


But this is Microsoft, not the government. Your bill of rights or declaration of independence (sorry, but being Canadian, I'm not up to speed on all things American) deals with government, not private corporations.

Don't get me wrong, I 100% agree with your sentiment.

But I don't see anyone with proof that Microsoft is "spying" on us to aid the government. We need to direct our energies to the right places.


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## Atomic77 (Sep 1, 2015)

This is really not that new or surprising. My Antivirus software has been detecting and removing tracking cookies for several years now. And anyways I don't have anything to hide or do anything risky online in the first place.


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## natr0n (Sep 1, 2015)

Disable windows update from a fresh install. No spying OS.
Keep in mind using a legit MS clean untouched older win 7 iso.

That's how I roll.


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## Ebo (Sep 2, 2015)

Just like RTB, me and others say: you have to stand up for your rights otherwise you get run over.

You might not be popular, you might stand alone, you might even fight a loosing battle, but I will hold my own every time of the day no matter what.

Its my right to be critical, its my right to argue, its my right to have my own opinion, *nobody *can take that away from me, its my right as a human, end of story.

Since were in the information age, I just wonder why there isent  a browser other than Onion that dosent collect and store data about you as a user ? Finally Firefox is trying to do something about it, but thats rare.
Today we cant live without the internet for bad or for good, but thats how it is, we cant all be happy in the end.

I just want my right to say *NO.*


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## Atomic77 (Sep 2, 2015)

is there really a browser called Onion?


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## R-T-B (Sep 2, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> I can't rule the world until the NWO takes over, so let's get to destroying freedom and liberty, m'kay?
> 
> 
> 
> The concept can die. The world would be a better place, and people might actually respect each other... or they die. The human populace could use some thinning out, and destruction of privacy, and the right to hold personal opinions that are destructive needs to end... *by force if needed.*



This is the definition of a "destructive opinion."

The only difference is I'm not calling for your forceful reeducation/elimination.


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## Frick (Sep 2, 2015)

Ebo said:


> Just like RTB, me and others say: you have to stand up for your rights otherwise you get run over.
> 
> You might not be popular, you might stand alone, you might even fight a loosing battle, but I will hold my own every time of the day no matter what.
> 
> ...



The thing is it is a loosing battle. Standing up for your rights (not as good as standing up for your principles though) is good, but you're still rolling down the slippery slope we embarked on decades ago and now that slope is pretty damned steep.


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## cadaveca (Sep 2, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> This is the definition of a "destructive opinion."
> 
> The only difference is I'm not calling for your forceful reeducation/elimination.


Again... sarcasm. But OK.


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## Ebo (Sep 2, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> is there really a browser called Onion?



here
https://www.torproject.org/


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## R-T-B (Sep 2, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> Again... sarcasm. But OK.



I get fired up easy.  Don't read much into it.


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## cadaveca (Sep 2, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> I get fired up easy.  Don't read much into it.


I'm overly sarcastic, like 95% of the time. I guess that makes us even.

Yet at the same time, I am 100% serious when I say I don't care about privacy on the internet... mine, yours, any...

A lot of crooked stuff goes on here, and being the father of 4 kids I can't help but be proud of, minimizing the risks they are exposed to is something that comes natural, and I do think that is there was no electronic privacy, the world might be a better place.

You can't go outside without possibly being recorded on some yahoo's cell phone, dash cam, or otherwise; your daily travels are tracked by cell phones, and people put far too much personal stuff onsites like Facebook and Instagram, all under the premise of there being privacy.

So why pretend that things are any different than how they really are?


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## GreiverBlade (Sep 2, 2015)

cadaveca said:


> I'm overly sarcastic, like 95% of the time. I guess that makes us even.
> 
> Yet at the same time, I am 100% serious when I say I don't care about privacy on the internet... mine, yours, any...


so do i ... so do i ... (about being overly sarcastic 95% of the time and 100% serious about not caring about privacy in a massively connected network)


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## Drone (Sep 2, 2015)

They will always find a way to spy on you one way or another. All ISPs are doing it.
The best way is: Linux + encryption. But maybe even that isn't not enough today.


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## GreiverBlade (Sep 2, 2015)

Drone said:


> They will always find a way to spy on you one way or another. All ISPs are doing it.
> The best way is: Linux + encryption. But maybe even that isn't not enough today.


indeed that might not be enough ... only "no connection" at all is enough, because even encrypted and under linux, your data can still be interecepted or mined, and presumably the higher "authority" already have the key used for encrypting your data... 

nah linux is not really safer nor is Onion or TOR, i don't believe they do what they promise they do.
tho i might be wrong ... after all, maybe i should give a try for the alternative (if the devs didn't already gave the algorythme and key to the NSA and the like of it..... and promise you that you are safe ... )

there is no real mean to be sure there isn't a backdoor in a "secured program" ... unless you know how to identify them, but for the average user ... they just swallow the lie and ask no question about those so called "safer for your privacy" softwar


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## Drone (Sep 2, 2015)

GreiverBlade said:


> indeed that might not be enough ... only "no connection" at all is enough, because even encrypted and under linux, your data can still be interecepted or mined, and presumably the higher "authority" already have the key used for encrypting your data...
> 
> nah linux is not really safer nor is Onion or TOR, i don't believe they do what they promise they do.
> tho i might be wrong ... after all, maybe i should give a try for the alternative (if the devs didn't already gave the algorythme and key to the NSA and the like of it..... and promise you that you are safe ... )
> ...




You made really interesting points. Linux has its flaws as well but at least I do believe it has no telemetry and all that tracking crap. But then again maybe you're right, maybe they can find a backdoor there too.

As for TOR I've heard that it's not really "encrypted".

As for search engines I use DuckDuckGo only. Never used Google, and somehow Bing and Yahoo! disappointed me with irrelevant results.


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## R-T-B (Sep 2, 2015)

Just because it is, doesn't mean it should be.  I come from a cryptographic and security background, so needless to say I disagree with @cadaveca 's philosophy.  There are better ways to monitor your kids than removing privacy from adults en-masse, but I'm sure you know that.

I respect your opinion, but cannot agree and will fight it on premise to the bitter end, even if I have already lost in the real world.


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## moproblems99 (Sep 2, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Dont do anything shadey/illegal and you shouldn't have problems. All I do it check facebook, forums, and play games on my system. Why should I care if they can see what I'm doing when I'm doing average Joe shit.



It shouldn't matter what I am doing.  Without a warrant, it is none of their business.  However, don't do the crime if you aren't willing to do the time.  2/3 of America's laws are ignorant and new more ignorant ones get added daily.  For instance, smoking a joint is legal in a couple of states, illegal in the rest, but federally it is a crime everywhere.  Well, at least with our political stalemate right now, our government can't screw us over anymore.


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## P4-630 (Sep 15, 2015)

I just had 9 optional updates, I wanted to read more information about these updates but there was no information available about these updates on the microsoft website. I have chosen to not install them (yet) , my system runs fine.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 15, 2015)

P4-630 said:


> I just had 9 optional updates, I wanted to read more information about these updates but there was no information available about these updates on the microsoft website. I have chosen to not install them (yet) , my system runs fine.


Magic Johnson didn't have AIDs until he was tested too.


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## EarthDog (Sep 15, 2015)

Weird. I had no idea he got AIDS from the test...


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