# WMP Subtitles?



## hat (Oct 8, 2015)

I'm confused on some subtitle issues here. More specifically it seems to have to do with LAV splitter/Haali whatever comes with CCCP. In some videos I have, I get a little icon in the tray I can right-click to enable or disable subtitles, and do some other stuff (not really sure what everything else is though).

However, in my very own Handbrake encodes (dvdrips) I get no such option. But, I can enable and disable my subtitles in VLC. in WMP, the tray icon does not appear! What's going on?


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## OneMoar (Oct 8, 2015)

WMP sucks and you should never ever ever use it is what is going on
likely the filter isn't registered in WMP iirc wmp still uses hardcoded splitters so you are SOL


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## hat (Oct 8, 2015)

I've been using it exclusively (for videos, winamp for music) for ages. Only now have I run into some strange issue.

It's weird, the filter appears in some videos I have, but not others. Not understanding why... it always used to be there.

And now VLC is crashing on any h.264 video I have when I enable DXVA. Cool!

Well, VLC no longer crashes when I enable DXVA, since seeking out and installing the x64 edition. The recommended download crashes like a bitch though. But why is WMP not showing my splitters? grrr


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## OneMoar (Oct 9, 2015)

hat said:


> I've been using it exclusively (for videos, winamp for music) for ages. Only now have I run into some strange issue.
> 
> It's weird, the filter appears in some videos I have, but not others. Not understanding why... it always used to be there.
> 
> ...


uninstall all the codec-crap you installed
and set it and forget it
you don't need anything additional these days vlc/mpc-hc are enough for everything


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## Mussels (Oct 9, 2015)

WMP is simply not loading the filter.

i exclusively use MPC-HC (with CCCP codec pack, but alone is fine) for reasons like this. you can at least manually set the filters to make them work.


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## hat (Oct 9, 2015)

Why wouldn't it load the filter? New version of WMP sucks? It loads the filter for some videos I have, but the vast majority, no.

Not arguing with you guys or dismissing your suggestions, just wondering wtf this is. I'm actually leaning towards just getting used to VLC at this point... unless MPC-HC is better?


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## lilhasselhoffer (Oct 9, 2015)

So, the difference here, by what you are describing, is hard coding versus soft coding.

Hard coded subs are basically burned into the video stream.  All data beneath them is lost, so you can't ever turn them off.  Soft coded subs function as a layer over the video, so that the underlying picture isn't lost.

WMP plays hard coded content without an issue.  If you get soft subs you'll need to have the file specially tagged for WMP to even recognize the subs, and even then it's hit and miss in my experience.  The exception is DVDs, but they generally require going to the title screen to alter subs and audio tracks.



You fix this by installing CCCP (combined community codec pack), and MPC (media player classic).  MPC, and the required splitters, install with CCCP by default.  It'll always pop up an icon where you can toggle between audio and subtitle tracks.  Best of all 8 and 10 bit encodes work.  WMP has also been hit and miss, in my experience, with these newer encoding techniques.  Despite what people think, CCCP does an excellent job of making media playback good.  Heck, if you're a Windows 10 user you no longer have a choice here.  They killed WMP.



Edit:
Maybe I'm missing what you're asking.

This might just be a flagging issue.  It'd be hard to tell, without seeing an encode.  I've had plenty of people encode media without default flags set, so the finalized file doesn't indicate it has extra data to the player.

Assuming the container is an .mp4 or .mkv you could use mkv toolnix to reset the default flags on the media file.  I've done it more than once.

In short, operator error.  Sometimes forgetting to check one box is all that is necessary to make failure an inevitability.


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## OneMoar (Oct 9, 2015)

iv said this before codec packs are evil and unnecessary to boot
MPC-HC's internal filters are based on LAV/FFDshow SVN and even better than the stand alones
VLC is nearly as good,tho I do not like how it manages hardware acceleration and I find the UI clunky
there is a not a single valid reason to install a codec pack anymore


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## Mussels (Oct 9, 2015)

hat said:


> Why wouldn't it load the filter? New version of WMP sucks? It loads the filter for some videos I have, but the vast majority, no.
> 
> Not arguing with you guys or dismissing your suggestions, just wondering wtf this is. I'm actually leaning towards just getting used to VLC at this point... unless MPC-HC is better?



because some other filter/splitter has priority.

IMO, VLC is the 'easier' solution - but it feels like the mac of media players. 90% of people it works great out of the box, no tweaking needed.
for the other 10% (back in the day they refused to support 5.1 sound over SPDIF for example, the devs outright said they didnt use it personally and didnt give a fuck) you're screwed - and MPC-HC just has a lot more options.

Performance wise MPC-HC has a lot more choices as well, since you get a bunch of hardware accelerated modes, and a dozen various codecs you can screw around with on lower end hardware. coreAVC, DXVA, mad-VR, you can choose your own balance between performance and quality. hell even changing the renderer to the 2D one that kills aero can be massive for a shitty old netbook converted into a HTPC.


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## Aquinus (Oct 9, 2015)

Mussels said:


> i exclusively use MPC-HC (with CCCP codec pack, but alone is fine) for reasons like this. you can at least manually set the filters to make them work.


This but, MPC out of the box has enough decoders where CCCP isn't needed. I would have agreed with you 8 years ago though. MPC alone can decode just about every video format I throw at it nowadays, supports subtitles, and almost always gets decoded with DXVA. I would start here.


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## lilhasselhoffer (Oct 9, 2015)

I continue to not understand why people want MPC, yet CCCP is too big.
CCCP - 9.93 MB installer, 32.5 MB once unpacked (12.9 MB of which is MPC)
MPC x64 - 12.5 MB installer (only have x32 installed currently, but rectifying it tonight)
MPC x32 - 11.7 MB installer (12.9 MB unpacked)


So, everything included, CCCP is less than 40 MB.  How is that a waste of space, when most video files make that insignificant?  Yes, it would save space not to have it, but it's arguing to save you a penny, when you only deal with dollar bills or higher.


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## lZKoce (Oct 9, 2015)

Mussels said:


> because some other filter/splitter has priority.
> 
> IMO, VLC is the 'easier' solution - but it feels like the mac of media players. 90% of people it works great out of the box, no tweaking needed.
> for the other 10% (back in the day they refused to support 5.1 sound over SPDIF for example, the devs outright said they didnt use it personally and didnt give a fuck) you're screwed - and MPC-HC just has a lot more options.
> ...



+9000 , I so much support MPHC-HC, it's open-source, it's powerful, but I couldn't have said it better that VLC is the "mac" of players.


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## Aquinus (Oct 9, 2015)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> I continue to not understand why people want MPC, yet CCCP is too big.
> CCCP - 9.93 MB installer, 32.5 MB once unpacked (12.9 MB of which is MPC)
> MPC x64 - 12.5 MB installer (only have x32 installed currently, but rectifying it tonight)
> MPC x32 - 11.7 MB installer (12.9 MB unpacked)
> ...


I've found that many of the filters included in CCCP don't always allowe DXVA to operate. I almost always get DXVA support running just MPC. That's really the only reason why I don't use CCCP anymore because MPC alone tends to fit the bill.


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## puma99dk| (Oct 9, 2015)

I am using KCP right now, before that CCCP.

Link: http://haruhichan.com/forum/showthread.php?7545-KCP-Kawaii-Codec-Pack


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## Aquinus (Oct 9, 2015)

I'm curious, what are all of your people needing things like CCCP and KCP for? Back when I liked Anime (I grew out of it some time ago,) I used CCCP a lot to handle MKV, H.264, subtitles, and multiple audio streams. Issue is that MPC-HC handles all of that internally pretty well now when it didn't used to, so I'm not exactly sure what the justification would be for using more tools. Just about all the video I have doesn't need special codecs or anything at this point with MPC-HC as it tends to read and decode just about everything I throw at it. Back when I used CCCP, DXVA didn't work half of the time because of the codecs and filters. Maybe it has improved but, I've never needed more than just MPC-HC in the last 5 years.


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## lilhasselhoffer (Oct 9, 2015)

Aquinus said:


> I've found that many of the filters included in CCCP don't always allowe DXVA to operate. I almost always get DXVA support running just MPC. That's really the only reason why I don't use CCCP anymore because MPC alone tends to fit the bill.



Ahhh.   I had not encountered that bug myself, and wasn't aware of its existence.  That would definitely be a reason to forego CCCP.  Thanks for the clarification.



Edit:


Aquinus said:


> I'm curious, what are all of your people needing things like CCCP and KCP for? Back when I liked Anime (I grew out of it some time ago,) I used CCCP a lot to handle MKV, H.264, subtitles, and multiple audio streams. Issue is that MPC-HC handles all of that internally pretty well now when it didn't used to, so I'm not exactly sure what the justification would be for using more tools. Just about all the video I have doesn't need special codecs or anything at this point with MPC-HC as it tends to read and decode just about everything I throw at it. Back when I used CCCP, DXVA didn't work half of the time because of the codecs and filters. Maybe it has improved but, I've never needed more than just MPC-HC in the last 5 years.



CCCP plays all of the older crap, pretty much without issue.  I've got video encoded with some archaic codecs, that never caught on in the mainstream.  CCCP still seems to have decoders that can run them, so on we go.

Years ago CCCP came with Zoomplayer.  I personally found it far better than WMP, but that was before MPC.  Whenever they switched over to MPC you still needed a decent pack of codecs to get it up and running.


So I guess the reason is bass-ackwards old media, and no reason that CCCP hasn't done everything I've ever asked of it.  There hasn't really been a compelling reason to jettison CCCP, when it just works.


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## Mussels (Oct 9, 2015)

Aquinus said:


> I'm curious, what are all of your people needing things like CCCP and KCP for? Back when I liked Anime (I grew out of it some time ago,) I used CCCP a lot to handle MKV, H.264, subtitles, and multiple audio streams. Issue is that MPC-HC handles all of that internally pretty well now when it didn't used to, so I'm not exactly sure what the justification would be for using more tools. Just about all the video I have doesn't need special codecs or anything at this point with MPC-HC as it tends to read and decode just about everything I throw at it. Back when I used CCCP, DXVA didn't work half of the time because of the codecs and filters. Maybe it has improved but, I've never needed more than just MPC-HC in the last 5 years.



i use cccp out of laziness, MPC-HC does most of it just fine internally. their 64 bit version works well for H265 which i've started to grab shows in.

personally i find DXVA runs *worse* than properly setup software decoding, based on system lag and power measured at the wall.


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## hat (Oct 9, 2015)

MPCHC is working nice! I have my little system tray icons I'm so used to now. Only thing is I can't seem to find right away how to enable/disable HW decoding, but it seems to be working as MPCHC showed like  .3% CPU usage while playing a 720p 5000k h264 encode.


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## OneMoar (Oct 9, 2015)

hat said:


> MPCHC is working nice! I have my little system tray icons I'm so used to now. Only thing is I can't seem to find right away how to enable/disable HW decoding, but it seems to be working as MPCHC showed like  .3% CPU usage while playing a 720p 5000k h264 encode.


should never need to touch it
if you wanna change it you can select either old or overlay video mixer from the output dropdown in the settings


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## Mussels (Oct 10, 2015)

hat said:


> MPCHC is working nice! I have my little system tray icons I'm so used to now. Only thing is I can't seem to find right away how to enable/disable HW decoding, but it seems to be working as MPCHC showed like  .3% CPU usage while playing a 720p 5000k h264 encode.



with a video player, right click and go filters. choose your video decoder, settings are in there for DXVA if applicable to the video type being played.


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## hat (Oct 10, 2015)

Funny thing is, MPCHC seems to work perfectly so far, even on my own encodes (been doing DVDrips and keeping subtitles) and I get my icons in the taskbar. WMP, not so much. Only one thing they ever showed up for that I've seen, and I can't figure out why. If it worked for that, why not my other crap? I tried installing CCCP again (at this point, just messing around, not even trying to go back to WMP, but the 'why did this happen' is bugging me still') made sure the boxes were ticked for those filters to show up in taskbar, and nothing.

Somebody must have broken WMP or something somewhere along the line... IDK.

Now my mind has trailed off into playing with h.265. Wheee!


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## Mussels (Oct 10, 2015)

hat said:


> Now my mind has trailed off into playing with h.265. Wheee!



From what i've seen on a few websites that specialise in linux ISO downloads, the H265 files can give 'good' quality at drastically lower file sizes. almost nothing has hardware decoding support, and they require a bit more CPU power for playback - but the lower file size can be worth it 

(in my testing, a 720p H265 took about the same power as 1080p H264 to play in x64 MPC-HC/CCCP)


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## hat (Oct 10, 2015)

My machine seemed to struggle with a 4k sample video I found. I downloaded the raw format and used it as a base for some testing a while ago. h.264 was flawless, but h.265 seemed to chug a bit. I imagine though that all depends on bitrates, mostly.

I believe Haswell and up has hardware decoding support, as well as the GTX960 (and 950Ti, now). It seems things are starting to pick up for h.265. Decoding by CPU is going to struggle for many with what it was really made for for some time, though... but CPUs will catch up, as we gradually get more cores, better IPC and higher clockspeeds.

Right now my "testing" involves comparing h.265 results to my h.264 results with a DVDrip... and seeing how mpc-hc handles it, and checking cpu usage.


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## Mussels (Oct 10, 2015)

hat said:


> My machine seemed to struggle with a 4k sample video I found. I downloaded the raw format and used it as a base for some testing a while ago. h.264 was flawless, but h.265 seemed to chug a bit. I imagine though that all depends on bitrates, mostly.
> 
> I believe Haswell and up has hardware decoding support, as well as the GTX960 (and 950Ti, now). It seems things are starting to pick up for h.265. Decoding by CPU is going to struggle for many with what it was really made for for some time, though... but CPUs will catch up, as we gradually get more cores, better IPC and higher clockspeeds.
> 
> Right now my "testing" involves comparing h.265 results to my h.264 results with a DVDrip... and seeing how mpc-hc handles it, and checking cpu usage.



you on x64 or x86? comments on the cccp forums about hte beta indicated that x265 codec support is weak on the x86 side, cause the devs would rather focus on the future proofed side of it and get the performance there (especially with potentially multi GB files and ram usage)


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## hat (Oct 10, 2015)

Well, that was with WMP when I did that so x86 I would imagine. Now with mpc-hc it's x64, but I have not much intention playing with that video again.


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## hat (Oct 21, 2015)

Not really relevant to the OP, but I thought I'd shove this in here anyway. 

What I'm doing is (attempting) to make small, yet as close to perfect as I can get, quality, DVDRips (or BDRip, if I ever get any) for my Plex server. HDD space is at a premium, so I'm trying to encode as efficiently as possible. This led me to trying H.265, and the results (quality and filesize) were a good bit better than what H.264 could do for me. Problem is, H.265 isn't widely available, at least to me. Sure, I could get away with playing an H.265 movie on my computer... but that's about it. My Plex server will be streaming to a Chromecast 2, and probably some PS3/PS4/another PC (hmm, seems even the PS4, the newest tech we have in the house, doesn't even decode H.265).

Sure, Plex can transcode... but how much H.265 transcoding can my Athlon II x4 handle? Probably not too much. My best option is H.264.

I'm using Handbrake, with CRF 20, VerySlow preset (experimenting with Placebo), set x264 Tune to Film, and Decomb on Default (to deinterlace). On the audio side, I'm using HE-AAC @ 48K Stereo. I'm saving subtitles too, where available. I have Anamorphic set to loose, mod16.

Again, going to keep the same quality (I understand there will be _some_ loss from transcoding any way you look at it, but I mean as much as possible) and for the smallest file size possible. Encoding time doesn't really matter to me. 5FPS avg from Placebo setting is okay to me...

Is there anything else I can do to get more out of h.264?


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