# Microsoft Security Essentials Fails AV-Test Certification



## Drone (Nov 30, 2012)

Bad news:



> The AV Test Institute, a German IT security and anti-virus research firm, regularly conducts tests on some of the most popular antivirus software products in the market. During its recent test for the months of September and October, it revealed that Microsoft’s very own antivirus software, Microsoft Security Essentials, had failed to pass AV Test’s certification. The interesting part is that the rest of the security products which included AVG, Avast, F-Secure, Bitdefender, and nineteen others, all received certification from the security research firm.



http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/11/microsoft-security-essentials-fails-av-test-certification/


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

I almost switched from AVG to MSE not to long ago but said no, This makes me glad I did.


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## erixx (Nov 30, 2012)

http://www.av-test.org/no_cache/en/tests/test-reports/?tx_avtestreports_pi1[report_no]=123698

THE ACTUAL RESULTS 

Will watch this and take decisions.


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## erixx (Nov 30, 2012)

Some reading those tests:
Bitdeffender appears to be the winner (this month, this is changing all the time)
But it also is showing a realy bad impact on computer performance (where MSSE is the best, btw)

compromises, compromises...


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## acerace (Nov 30, 2012)

Use Avast then.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

I think that now MSE is built into Windows 8 and Anti-Virus companies are butt hurt from that MSE will always have "bad" reviews. As a matter of fact I bet the European Union will sue MSE for not offering a choice much like IE suit.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

Awww come on mail man, Everyones not all out to get MSE.....


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Awww come on mail man, Everyones not all out to get MSE.....



Its not MSE. Its Microsoft sir. They built in a anti-virus to the new OS. There is a LOT of money there that isnt going to security companies. Don't you find it strange MSE lost its certification its had since day one the month Windows 8 came out? How much you want to bet the EU will sue them?


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

Just like the same thing that happened to windows defender in windows 7?


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Just like the same thing that happened to windows defender in windows 7?



Windows Defender isnt the same thing as MSE.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Windows Defender isnt the same thing as MSE.



I understand that but it was met with the same type of criticism.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> I understand that but it was met with the same type of criticism.



Yeah but now Windows 8 is even worse. Ill bet you a beer they will get sued.


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## erixx (Nov 30, 2012)

+1


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## Drone (Nov 30, 2012)

erixx said:


> But it also is showing a realy bad impact on computer performance (where MSSE is the best, btw)



Opening a folder full of files with turned on MSE realtime scanner takes longer than with Avast. So impact on performance is questionable.


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## NinkobEi (Nov 30, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Windows Defender isnt the same thing as MSE.



in Win8, MSE is built in to Windows Defender. Doesn't that make them the same? 

I don't see built-in AV protection a bad thing. Surely they don't expect surface users to go out and buy Norton for their tablet


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## naoan (Nov 30, 2012)

Drone said:


> Opening a folder full of files with turned on MSE realtime scanner takes longer than with Avast. So impact on performance is questionable.



This is the main reason why I switched to Avast after being an ardent user of MSE since its first release. Very noticeable on a folder with a lot of exe.


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## Frick (Nov 30, 2012)

NinkobEi said:


> in Win8, MSE is built in to Windows Defender. Doesn't that make them the same?
> 
> I don't see built-in AV protection a bad thing. Surely they don't expect surface users to go out and buy Norton for their tablet



not in windows 7. 

And i too think its a good thing its now included, but i also think tmm is right.


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## TRWOV (Nov 30, 2012)

If you keep MSE updated, this is a no issue. If you see the results, MSE got it worst at catching undocumented threats...well that and rootkits but those a bitch to deal with. Every other test met the industry average.

For a free AV I'd say the results are fine.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

TRWOV said:


> If you keep MSE updated, this is a no issue. If you see the results, MSE got it worst at catching undocumented threats...well that and rootkits but those a bitch to deal with. Every other test met the industry average.
> 
> For a free AV I'd say the results are fine.



Thats always been the case. This is why you combine MSE with Malwarebytes. Even MS says that.


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## Melvis (Nov 30, 2012)

Hate to tell you i told you so, but......i told you so  

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170264


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## punisher186 (Nov 30, 2012)

People still use antivirus software?


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## Guitar (Nov 30, 2012)

AVG is bad IMO. Been running MSE on my own PCs since it released and put it on my mother's and sister's PCs and they don't have a problem.


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## Steevo (Nov 30, 2012)

MSE is good, I use it but still prefer Avast for locking down most computers.


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I think that now MSE is built into Windows 8 and Anti-Virus companies are butt hurt from that MSE will always have "bad" reviews. As a matter of fact I bet the European Union will sue MSE for not offering a choice much like IE suit.





TheMailMan78 said:


> Its not MSE. Its Microsoft sir. They built in a anti-virus to the new OS. There is a LOT of money there that isnt going to security companies. Don't you find it strange MSE lost its certification its had since day one the month Windows 8 came out? How much you want to bet the EU will sue them?



I have used MSE since it's inception. I happen to agree with TheMailMan here. The fact that it is integrated into windows is why all the sudden they have lost there certification. The fact that they have installed it into there OS will give the EU cause to sue! I love it it have worked far better than AVG and is way less intrusive. Leaving a small foot print and take a hell of a lot less resources too. And one more thing that is even better than all this, IT IS FREE!!!! This is not sitting well with all the big Anti-Virus companies. Why not go after apple for NOT having viruses? I will continue to use it and it will continue to protect me.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

Melvis said:


> Hate to tell you i told you so, but......i told you so
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170264



And you were wrong there too.


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

Another thing I found is that with MSE you do not need mallwarebits. This is just another + for me. I had kept it in for one year and after that found no need for it at all. I have yet to be infected by a thing!


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## Jstn7477 (Nov 30, 2012)

I would be more than happy to install Avast on friends computers, but the email protection recently kept crashing Outlook 2013 on my mom's Windows 7 machine, and they still have you do that stupid 1 year licensing crap and I bet 99% of people I fix computers for wouldn't even re-activate it. I still use MSE/Win8 Defender + Malwarebytes on all my machines but I have avoided being attacked for quite a while. Avast found rootkits and blocked them from phoning home when MSE didn't acknowledge their existence.


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## Melvis (Nov 30, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> And you were wrong there too.



 Yea i recommended Kaspersky and Bitdiffender and said how crap MSE is, and funny enough so did this review  

I can totally see how i was wrong


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

Melvis said:


> Yea i recommended Kaspersky and Bitdiffender and said how crap MSE is, and funny enough so did this review
> 
> I can totally see how i was wrong



You are still wrong.


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## acerace (Nov 30, 2012)

trickson said:


> You are still wrong.



You're the only one that's right here.


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

And how much are they payed to do these tests? money talks and maybe Microsoft wasn't going to pay them for a good ratting! I mean just because this one German company ran this test on it does that mean it is bad? You are still wrong.


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## Frick (Nov 30, 2012)

trickson said:


> And how much are they payed to do these tests? money talks and maybe Microsoft wasn't going to pay them for a good ratting! I mean just because this one German company ran this test on it does that mean it is bad? You are still wrong.



You can say the same about TPU. I'm not even sure what you're talking about but you're wrong by default.


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/vendor?id=70

Maybe you should look at this!


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

trickson said:


> http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/vendor?id=70
> 
> Maybe you should look at this!



By thier chart Avast failed last December......doesnt make avast a bad scanner does it because it failed one month?........no. People are looking WAY to far into this.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

trickson said:


> http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/vendor?id=70
> 
> Maybe you should look at this!



From that same site. MSE had only 5 good passes out of 12 while AVG has 10 passes out of 12...

http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/compare?id=70&id2=10


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> From that same site. MSE had only 5 good passes out of 12 while AVG has 10 passes out of 12...
> 
> http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/compare?id=70&id2=10



FYI they only tested it 5 times.  The rest they didn't even test it.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> FYI they only tested it 5 times.



Why did they miss the other times? It just proves that this site is not reliable to show which one is or is not a good AV


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> Why did they miss the other times? It just proves that this site is not reliable to show which one is or is not a good AV



They only test them on engine revisions AFAIK. MSE is every other month. And that is a VERY good site.


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> From that same site. MSE had only 5 good passes out of 12 while AVG has 10 passes out of 12...
> 
> http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/compare?id=70&id2=10



http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/compare?id=70&id2=10

And 2 fails for AVG!


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

trickson said:


> http://www.virusbtn.com/vb100/archive/compare?id=70&id2=10
> 
> And 2 fails!



False postive is not a fail.


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## Widjaja (Nov 30, 2012)

I guess it depends on how prone you are to getting PC infections.
MSE has been fine so far.
Moved from AVG since I found it was getting more and more system heavy.
Also AVG registered false positives often.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> False postive is not a fail.



You can't argue with trickson, he is always right... This type of conversations should make you happy that you do not go onto the general nonsense forum anymore   :shadedshu


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

http://forums.avg.com/us-en/avg-forums?sec=thread&act=show&id=215767

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/support/tech/Configuring-AVG

Yeah AVG rocks!


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> You can't argue with trickson, he is always right... This type of conversations should make you happy that you do not go onto the general nonsense forum anymore   :shadedshu



Its just funny these things. Some of the guys on TPU havent used a virus checker in YEARS and sometimes do a scan.......they always come out clean. Why? Because they are not retards when it comes to downloading and installing everything under the sun. I only use one for a little peice of mind. Not because its really, REALLY needed with my browsing habits.


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> You can't argue with trickson, he is always right... This type of conversations should make you happy that you do not go onto the general nonsense forum anymore   :shadedshu



So now this is all about me? I am pointing out different things that are out there and you make this about me? I post you attack?


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its just funny these things. Some of the guys on TPU havent used a virus checker in YEARS and sometimes do a scan.......they always come out clean. Why? Because they are not retards when it comes to downloading and installing everything under the sun. I only use one for a little peice of mind. Not because its really, REALLY needed with my browsing habits.



I have used AVG for about 3 years now and its never gave me any trouble. Before that I had kaspersky and when my subscription ran out I got cheap and didn't want to pay it anymore.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> I have used AVG for about 3 years now and its never gave me any trouble. Before that I had kaspersky and when my subscription ran out I got cheap and didn't want to pay it anymore.



Yeah of course. Its no big deal. Just use whatever works for you. I use a MSE+Malwarebytes and Ive been good for a while now (knocks on wood). Doesnt matter what you use. Its all in your browsing habits. Most infections are from java or people installing bootleg crap.


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Yeah of course. Its no big deal. Just use whatever works for you. I use a MSE+Malwarebytes and Ive been good for a while now (knocks on wood). Doesnt matter what you use. Its all in your browsing habits. Most infections are from java or people installing bootleg crap.



I know . I am not saying that AVG sucks or is bad or not to use it. But some here think or read into it that I am.

so you don't get false positives regularly under avg? Really? you don't ever have Internet/game related issues with avg at all?

Funny with all the easy to find reports of problems with avg with various games.....that avg refuse to fix instead forcing users to find work a rounds or just get a different security suit.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> I have used AVG for about 3 years now and its never gave me any trouble. Before that I had kaspersky and when my subscription ran out I got cheap and didn't want to pay it anymore.





trickson said:


> You are still wrong.



No trickson but comments like above are the same thing you do over at GN as well and they are mainly just instigating comments. Then you do whatever you can to prove your decision to argue with someone.


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> No trickson but comments like above are the same thing you do over at GN as well and they are mainly just instigating comments. Then you do whatever you can to prove your decision to argue with someone.



How about you keep ME out of this and keep this thread on track? I do not want to make this a flame war just want to inform people that there are other places that test software as well yet they are not getting the same results or bashing MSE.


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## brandonwh64 (Nov 30, 2012)

trickson said:


> How about you keep ME out of this and keep this thread on track? I do not want to make this a flame war just want to inform people that there are other places that test software as well yet they are not getting the same results or bashing MSE.



YOU put YOURSELF in it but yes back on topic

AVG does throw out a false positive every once in a while (I have had around 5 the whole time I have used it) Mainly I google the virus it says the file is. Gaming I have had zero issues with.


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> YOU put YOURSELF in it but yes back on topic
> 
> AVG does throw out a false positive every once in a while (I have had around 5 the whole time I have used it) Mainly I google the virus it says the file is. Gaming I have had zero issues with.



By fing posting here? NO YOU put me into this not one other member has made this about ME! 

Again I have not said AVG or any other anti virus software is bad or you should no use it. I have posted legitimate rebuttal to the OP is all!


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

http://www.av-comparatives.org/images/docs/avc_fps_201209_en.pdf

http://www.av-comparatives.org/comparativesreviews/false-alarm-tests


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## TRWOV (Nov 30, 2012)

These AV certifications are always trading places. Why MSE failing one month is such a problem? Next month could be AVG's or avast's turn.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 30, 2012)

Now that MSE is integrated into the latest versions of Windows, the virus makers will focus on bypassing MSE first before any other AV software.  It is just the way of life.  They used to focus on Norton and McAfee first because they were the most popular, but now that MSE is built into Windows it will be the primary target.  So of course it will fair worst against 0-Day viruses.

As for MS being sued for including it.  I agree with TMM, it is only a matter of time.  Yes, everyone with any sort of logic and computer know-how will say having a built in AV active from the moment Windows is install is a good thing.  However, so is having an internet browser, or a media player from the moment the OS is installed.  For most people, an OS without a browser built in or a media player built in is pretty useless.  Most wouldn't even be able to figure out how to get a browser on the computer if it didn't come with it.   None of that has stopped the EU from suing Microsoft repeatedly for including those features, and it isn't going to stop them from suing Microsoft for including an AV.



brandonwh64 said:


> I have used AVG for about 3 years now and its never gave me any trouble. Before that I had kaspersky and when my subscription ran out I got cheap and didn't want to pay it anymore.



I stopped using AVG when they released a bad update, about 2 year ago, that caused every computer it was installed on to blue-screen on reboot.


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## Ravenas (Nov 30, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its not MSE. Its Microsoft sir. They built in a anti-virus to the new OS. There is a LOT of money there that isnt going to security companies. Don't you find it strange MSE lost its certification its had since day one the month Windows 8 came out? How much you want to bet the EU will sue them?



Calm down Jesse Ventura. Just because someone has found security issues doesn't automatically translate to some conspiracy to screw Microsoft. Good lord sometimes you fly off the lip about anything anti Microsoft.


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## Tatty_One (Nov 30, 2012)

A couple of simple posting tips seem needed here........

1.  keep on topic
2.  Please use either the edit or multi quote button..... don't double post
3.  Quit the insults/flamebaiting and unhelpful comments, its not clever, infact it's boring!

Everyone here is entitled to an opinion, if people don't agree either do so nicely or don't post at all.

Thank you!


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

Tatty_One said:


> A couple of simple posting tips seem needed here........
> 
> 1.  keep on topic
> 2.  Please use either the edit or multi quote button..... don't double post
> ...



No! THANK YOU GOOD SIR!


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## erocker (Nov 30, 2012)

Unless you view very dodgy porn and/or like clicking on random attachments in random emails, you don't need virus protection. So either way, don't worry about it.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 30, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> Calm down Jesse Ventura. Just because someone has found security issues doesn't automatically translate to some conspiracy to screw Microsoft. Good lord sometimes you fly off the lip about anything anti Microsoft.



I'm more like if Alex Jones and Ron Paul had a mentally challenged child.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 30, 2012)

erocker said:


> Unless you view very dodgy porn and/or like clicking on random attachments in random emails, you don't need virus protection. So either way, don't worry about it.



But I like to do both of those in my spare time.

P.S. Don't forget download movies/music/software illegally. Especially software.


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## mtosev (Nov 30, 2012)

i don't have that problem. the software I mainly download is software that I already own and i'm too lazy to find the actual cd/dvd and put it into the drive(no cd cracks are also useful)


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## _Zod_ (Nov 30, 2012)

erocker said:


> Unless you view very dodgy porn and/or like clicking on random attachments in random emails, you don't need virus protection. So either way, don't worry about it.



Generally this is true, if you stay out of the ghetto you're chances at remaining safe are increased. HOWEVER, there are plenty of legitimate sites that get hacked and hijacked that can infect you when visiting them. Not to mention the abundance of Java and Flash vulnerabilities. Having an A/V is just another security layer, (another being a firewall) for safe computing practices.


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## STCNE (Nov 30, 2012)

MSE let a trojan through last month, but caught everything it tried to download. I got the trojan while looking up album art on google images.

I've also caught it turning it self off because it was 'out of date', apparently it was set to update sometime at night and turned itself off between the time the update was released and when it was downloaded. It wouldn't turn back on until I updated it manually because it wasn't up to date. :/

It's a good AV, and I've been using it for years without any major problems but I still don't feel it's really up to the level of some of the others. I'll probably end up switching to something else sooner or later.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 30, 2012)

MSE shouldn't turn itself off because it is out of date.  It will turn yellow and warn you that you are potentially unprotected because it is out of date, but it should never turn itself completely off.

Though I never even give it the chance to turn yellow, I tell it to scan every day, and download the latest update before scanning.  That ensures that the virus defs on my computer are always less than 24 hours old.


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## Drone (Nov 30, 2012)

erocker said:


> Unless you view very dodgy porn



Lol actually sleazy sites have less malware than 'normal' sites


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## newtekie1 (Nov 30, 2012)

Drone said:


> Lol actually sleazy sites have less malware than 'normal' sites



That is an old article, but it still holds true.  I seem to remember reading an article recently about research showing religious sites containing more malware than legit porn sites.  Though they pointed out the "free" porn sites tended to be infested with malware, it was only the pay sites that were relatively safer than the rest of the web.


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

erocker said:


> Unless you view very dodgy porn and/or like clicking on random attachments in random emails, you don't need virus protection. So either way, don't worry about it.



This is all you need to know.


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## TRWOV (Nov 30, 2012)

but... but...  I like dodgy porn and nothing excites me more than a random attachment... that sense of wondering... *sigh*  Should I install them all to just be safe?


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## trickson (Nov 30, 2012)

As Carl would say "OH yeah it has to be so sick and twisted for me to get off any more, I am so desensitized!"


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## remixedcat (Nov 30, 2012)

trickson said:


> http://www.av-comparatives.org/images/docs/avc_fps_201209_en.pdf
> 
> http://www.av-comparatives.org/comparativesreviews/false-alarm-tests



That said Webroot had a lot of false alarms, however they did issue a statement on that.
http://blog.webroot.com/2012/07/19/webroot-bulletin-regarding-av-comparatives-results/


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## DannibusX (Dec 1, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I'm more like if Alex Jones and Ron Paul had a mentally challenged child.



So you're Glenn Beck?


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## Naito (Dec 1, 2012)

I've heard MSE, when paired with Malwarebytes, is a very effective combo. MSE on its own may be a bit weak.


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## Jetster (Dec 1, 2012)

Where does the line get crossed and become "dodgy porn" ?


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## TRWOV (Dec 1, 2012)

mmm...maybe >5 fetishes covered in the same porn?


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## Ravenas (Dec 1, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I'm more like if Alex Jones and Ron Paul had a mentally challenged child.



Ron Paul would take away the rights of Microsoft (the federal government) and give the rights to Norton (the state government). Thus, if you were a child of Ron Paul, you would not want Microsoft forcing faulty security on you. Ron Paul would be ashamed of you for creating conspiracy that may condone Norton, mentally ill or otherwise.


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## STCNE (Dec 12, 2012)

Son of a... Since this topic is about security companies failing I just figured I'd shoot out a warning to my fellow TPU members. Back in 2004 or so we bought Check Point/ZoneAlarm security, used it a few years, and then cancelled it.

Today my dad noticed an odd charge on his checking account. After further investigation we tracked it back to ZoneAlarm security. They were(and had been for 4 years... how that slipped past my dad I'll never know) charging onto a paypal account we had abandoned years ago. The 'renewel' charges happened about once a year from 2007 to Nov 20th of this year. We hadn't used said account since 2004.

When my dad signed up with them he gave them a credit card(He must have used paypal checkout and had auto-login on or something), the card expired in 08 and they've been drawing $50 a year from our bank account for years now. We didn't get any emails with renewal codes or anything, we haven't had their AV on any of our computers since we cancelled it. Those bastards re-opened our account without our permission and within the past 5 years have stolen $250 out of our account. I opened a dispute with paypal a few hours ago and with any luck we're get the last $50 back.

So yeah, just a warning for anyone whose done business with them in the past to check and make sure they haven't been doing the same to you, and don't make the same mistake my dad did and just abandon old accounts. If you're done with a paypal/ebay account close it. I mention ebay because someone stole my dad's account there, fortunately they don't seem to have done anything except change the password. I'm hoping I can get him to close it before that bites us in the rear as well. :/


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## lemonadesoda (Dec 12, 2012)

I do hope all TPU members run a sandbox for running/testing those free utilities/games/dodgy downloads etc.  Perhaps we need a sandbox tutorial?


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## corehazard (Dec 12, 2012)

punisher186 said:


> People still use antivirus software?



http://www.techspot.com/guides/202-stay-safe-without-active-antivirus-protection/

I still use MSE and never got any viruses. As always users doing dumb things is the biggest problem.

I use the NoScript,  Web Of Trust, and of course Adblock Plus add ons for Firefox; these add ons along with safe browsing habits are more important (in my opinion to keeping you safe than any AV).

As for Sandbox software I never tried any; any favorites here?


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## erixx (Dec 12, 2012)

I have had 3 "funny" (innocent) viruses in the 90's and never had one again. I am vigilant, but use MSE in case i have a stupid day, as it doesn't disturb like other ones.
I erase all "stupid" mail without looking into it, smell fraud from far, and I am updated (I know people who do not update knowingly 
and I don't spend any time on wacko websites. If I want to see titties , the official websites offer plenty for free (without any kind of age checking, btw  No need to visit shithole scripting sites.

I run IE10 with max security settings, and Opera with less but with Ghostery. (it is amazing to learn all the tracking websites do 

BUT, thinking that MS still makes "Hide hidden folders/system files" and "Hide file extensions" as the default configuration (which is the first thing I change after insalling an OS): for non savy people be it ignorant or older people, this is really a sad situation. They really think "No, no, there are no files on this pendrive", or "My C: drive looks perfectly clean"....  etc, etc.

Rant over


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## INSTG8R (Dec 12, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its just funny these things. Some of the guys on TPU havent used a virus checker in YEARS and sometimes do a scan.......they always come out clean. Why? Because they are not retards when it comes to downloading and installing everything under the sun. I only use one for a little peice of mind. Not because its really, REALLY needed with my browsing habits.



Couldn't have said it better myself. I hadn't run AV for years. If I ever got a little paranoid I would just run HouseCall for a full scan. I have always run SpyBot S&D for passive protection, NoScript and more recently Ghostery on my Browser. I just installed MSE because it was light and free.


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## rtwjunkie (Jan 7, 2013)

NinkobEi said:


> in Win8, MSE is built in to Windows Defender. Doesn't that make them the same?
> 
> I don't see built-in AV protection a bad thing. Surely they don't expect surface users to go out and buy Norton for their tablet



Not exactly the same thing.  Windows Defender is the antispyware component built into MSE, which anti-virus component was purchased from, IIRC, Giant, or something like that.  Several years ago, MS said that's why if you install MSE it automatically should be turning off Windows Defender.


----------



## 3870x2 (Jan 7, 2013)

lemonadesoda said:


> I do hope all TPU members run a sandbox for running/testing those free utilities/games/dodgy downloads etc.  Perhaps we need a sandbox tutorial?



The amount of time required to set up and use a sandbox negates the amount of time you would spend reacting to any threats.

Just use your brain and don't download dodgy software.


----------



## Melvis (Jan 8, 2013)

and it fails again http://www.av-test.org/en/tests/home-user/windows-7/sepoct-2012/


----------



## Widjaja (Jan 8, 2013)

MSE caught something for me two days ago!
It was a false positive.


----------



## RejZoR (Jan 8, 2013)

3870x2 said:


> The amount of time required to set up and use a sandbox negates the amount of time you would spend reacting to any threats.
> 
> Just use your brain and don't download dodgy software.



Nonsense. It takes 10 minutes to setup Sandboxie and after that it requires few seconds to do the remianing tasks of clearning the sandbox if needed or fiddle with minor details.


----------



## HammerON (Jan 8, 2013)

I will continue to use MSE...


----------



## THE_EGG (Jan 8, 2013)

Ashame, but I moved from Norton 360 to MSE several years ago (mostly because of the money), and I've never had problems with MSE. I've only had one bad virus about 5 years ago but that  was my fault by letting one of my friends plug in their portable HDD 

I'm going to stick with MSE too, don't fix something that ain't broke applies for me here imo.


----------



## erixx (Jan 8, 2013)

same here, but the absence of the "Scan this file" context menu is a bit frightening


----------



## Grnfinger (Jan 8, 2013)

I use MSE and Norton Power Eraser for anything nasty.

I have 2 kids that surf and my son will click anything that flashes. MSE ( so far) will catch them and remove them. If MSE can't, NPE will remove the rootkits and trojans.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 8, 2013)

erixx said:


> same here, but the absence of the "Scan this file" context menu is a bit frightening



Are you meaning the right click to scan any file?  If so, it does indeed have that.  I use it all the time on my son's computer whenever he downloads something.  

If that's not what you are referring to, then I bow out gracefully.


----------



## Drone (Jan 8, 2013)

erixx said:


> the absence of the "Scan this file" context menu is a bit frightening



MSE *does* have scan this file context menu. Windows Defender lacks that feature. 
However, Windows Defender in Windows 8 is not MSE. It's more robust.

Main differences:

*Windows 8 Defender*:

Has built-in antivirus
*Doesn't have "Scan this file" feature* (not a big deal, all new files get scanned automatically anyway so ...)
Has Anti-malware software (users no longer need to download and install it manually)
Can't be uninstalled, only disabled


*MSE*

Has built-in antivirus
Can't be installed in Widows 8
Has "Scan this file" context menu
Doesn't have Anti-malware software (users need to download and install it manually)
Can be uninstalled
Users who upgrade from Win7 to 8 need to uninstall MSE first


PCMAG


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 8, 2013)

Drone said:


> MSE *does* have scan this file context menu. Windows Defender lacks that feature.
> However, Windows Defender in Windows 8 is not MSE. It's more robust.
> 
> Main differences:
> ...



You mean Windows 7 doesnt have Anti-malware software. I say this because thats what MSE is. Anti-malware software for Windows 7.


----------



## Drone (Jan 8, 2013)

MSE's main goal is *antivirus*. It has the most mediocre malware cleaning system. Good luck on installing MSE on infected system.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 8, 2013)

Drone said:


> MSE's main goal is *antivirus*. It has the most mediocre malware cleaning system. Good luck on installing MSE on infected system.



It picks up 96% of known malware/viruses. Its goal is both. Where its lacking badly is zero day protection (less then a week old and not in mass circulation). However if you are trying to install a anti-virus on an infected system to begin with you are well behind the curb and should format or use a Antivirus Distro like Kapersky Rescue to boot from anyway to clean it before backup and format.


----------



## Drone (Jan 8, 2013)

And where did you get that 96% from? 
If it had antimalware protection why on Earth MS always urges to install Malicious Software Removal Tool? 
Behind what? Whatever that means there are antiviruses that can be installed on infected system and clean it up.
People who know what they're doing never format because of viruses. They'll find a way to clean the system without formatting.


----------



## Frick (Jan 8, 2013)

Drone said:


> People who know what they're doing never format because of viruses. They'll find a way to clean the system without formatting.



Depends on what it is. Sometimes a reformat is easier and quicker.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 8, 2013)

Drone said:


> And where did you get that 96% from?
> If it had antimalware protection why on Earth MS always urges to install Malicious Software Removal Tool?
> Behind what? Whatever that means there are antiviruses that can be installed on infected system and clean it up.
> People who know what they're doing never format because of viruses. They'll find a way to clean the system without formatting.



1. 90 to 96% is MSE avaerage by most testing firms.
2. Malicious Software Removal Tool is for very specific strains of malware. Even Norton and Kapersky have tools that are like it. TDSS Killer by Kapersky comes to mind for root kits.
3. People who know what they are doing don't get infected to begin with.


----------



## Drone (Jan 8, 2013)

1) 90-96% isn't the best score many has 99-100% rating
2) It's for general protection against spy/malware. NPE is for special strains. And what rootkits got to do with malware? 
3) Really? Actually I was talking about people who try to help less computer savvy folks. Anyone can get infected. If your scans come clean it doesn't really mean that your system is clean. Of course now you will say that you never got infected and blah ... so save it.


----------



## Mindweaver (Jan 8, 2013)

Drone said:


> And where did you get that 96% from?
> If it had antimalware protection why on Earth MS always urges to install Malicious Software Removal Tool?



If you have MSE you don't need there, "_Malicious Software Removal Tool_" they tell you that during installation. It has it, but I still use Malwarebytes and Spybot when I install it on PC's that I've cleaned. I encourage anyone using a free antivirus to us MSE over other free ones. I like Avast and AVG, but lately I do not like the new features Avast and AVG offer. None of them are bullet proof.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 8, 2013)

Drone said:


> 1) 90-96% isn't the best score many has 99-100% rating
> 2) It's for general protection against spy/malware. NPE is for special strains. And what rootkits got to do with malware?
> 3) Really? Actually I was talking about people who try to help less computer savvy folks. Anyone can get infected. If your scans come clean it doesn't really mean that your system is clean. Of course now you will say that you never got infected and blah ... so save it.



1. MSE gets 100% depending on the month. Some of the paid ones get 90% depending on the firm and the month. Anything 90% and above is perfectly acceptable.
2. All Security software have special tools. That's all Malicious Software Removal Tool is. An extra tool for special strains.
3. Boot distros will clean your system better then you think you can personally unless you work for one of the security companies or write the nasty yourself you don't have the experience they do. All day every day and even they screw up the clean up. This is why Malwarebytes is such a legend for cleaning up after a infection. If someone gets infected thats not savvy, best thing you can do is clean it up via distro, back up and reinstall. Unless you think you can walk someone through the regestry and .DLLs.



Mindweaver said:


> If you have MSE you don't need there, "_Malicious Software Removal Tool_" they tell you that during installation. It has it, but I still use Malwarebytes and Spybot when I install it on PC's that I've cleaned. I encourage anyone using a free antivirus to us MSE over other free ones. I like Avast and AVG, but lately I do not like the new features Avast and AVG offer. None of them are bullet proof.



Avast has been kicking a lot of ass in the moble market this past year. Ive been watching them for my PC as of late. If MSE doent get a little better on zero day I might switch over this year some time. Dunno yet.


----------



## Mindweaver (Jan 8, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Avast has been kicking a lot of ass in the moble market this past year. Ive been watching them for my PC as of late. If MSE doent get a little better on zero day I might switch over this year some time. Dunno yet.



Yea, that's the way it goes with Free Antivirus it seems. One year 1 of them are great, and the others seem to lag behind. I usually switch yearly. Most of the time when I'm cleaning someones pc I see something I like on the other AV and switch.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 8, 2013)

It doesn't matter what anti-malware you use, you should always directly scan with 2 of your faves.  Not all resident protection will catch everything.  For Instance, I use Avast Pro on mine in resident mode, context scan downloads with it, and once a week fire up malwarebytes just to scan the hard drives.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 8, 2013)

Drone said:


> Main differences:
> 
> Windows 8 Defender:
> 
> ...




OK, I'm confused royally.  Either youre saying MS decided to confuse all of us and change the neames and roles for Windows 8, or your confused.  Reason I say this is this:

If you look back a few years, MS only had Defender as an anti-spyware. It has no context menu, and never has. Then they bought Giant anti-virus, and re-engineered the program to include Windows Defender, so that it could now be an anti-malware, with virus, spyware, and rootkit protection.  MSE was born! (I'll let you all be the judge of how effective, I'm merely giving you the history)  

Anyway, windows Defender in Windows 7 comes automatically in Windows 7, and it's on by default.  Yes, MS continued to put out there it's sad little minimal antispyware.  So, in Windows 7, and in WHS 2011, it is there and ON by default.  You cannot uninstall it, only disable it.  OR, it will automatically disable itself if the user installs MSE, because Defender is INCLUDED in MSE.  

Now, I seriously think even MS would not attempt to confuse people and rename and re-define the roles for Windows 8.  What do I think?  I think the same sad little Windows Defender which has been around since 2003 or so, is the same automatic protection you get in Windows 8, same as they did in 7, and XP, SP3.  They would not purposely try to confuse anyone and reverse the names.  

The fact that they made it LOOK like MSE in it's design, but behaves like the previous Windows Defender (in that user doesn't have much control), has me seriously wondering if this thing is even half as effective as MSE!  I plain don't trust them.  This is on top of them cramming a touchscreen, mobile phone and tablet operating system down the throats of PC users,  when Windows 7 was perfectly fine, best they ever made, and pretty light on resources.  So, NO, I do not trust their renaming of MSE to Windows Defender for Windows 8.  Seems rather minimalist to me, like the previous Windows Defender.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 8, 2013)

rtwjunkie said:


> OK, I'm confused royally.  Either youre saying MS decided to confuse all of us and change the neames and roles for Windows 8, or your confused.  Reason I say this is this:
> 
> If you look back a few years, MS only had Defender as an anti-spyware. It has no context menu, and never has. Then they bought Giant anti-virus, and re-engineered the program to include Windows Defender, so that it could now be an anti-malware, with virus, spyware, and rootkit protection.  MSE was born! (I'll let you all be the judge of how effective, I'm merely giving you the history)
> 
> ...



MSE was renamed to Windows Defender in Windows 8. They also expanded "Smart Screen" to the entire OS and not just IE. Windows Defender in Windows 8 isnt the same Windows Defender as in 2003. You are confused.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 8, 2013)

rtwjunkie said:


> Bottom line....anyone that thinks that Windows Defender is all you need in Windows 8, is very likely being exposed to alot.



That's assuming that all people go to sites that might have malicious data. Personally, I do not, and antivirus software is the last consideration EVER I will make.

I'm pretty open about myself on the internet. Any of my personal data can be retrieved wit ha bit of work, and not hard work either, since I've spent many years spreading my "cadaveca" username all over the internet. If you see a user "cadaveca", chances are, that's me.


Online security and privacy aren't something I concern myself with, and for me, Windows Defender in Windows8 (which used to be MSE in Win7) is more than I need. Should I get an infection, I'll scan again with MalwareBytes.

I DO NOT need anything more than that, and I AM NOT exposing myself to bigger problems.


----------



## happita (Jan 8, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I'm more like if Alex Jones and Ron Paul had a mentally challenged child.



Alex Jones is the man. The MAN!


On topic, I think I agree with some of the comments made about NEEDING an anti-virus. If you don't recklessly click whatever catches your eye on the interwebz, there's no need to become baffled as to which one is "better" for any 1 person's needs. Whatever gives you piece of mind is what you should use.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 8, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> MSE was renamed to Windows Defender in Windows 8. They also expanded "Smart Screen" to the entire OS and not just IE. Windows Defender in Windows 8 isnt the same Windows Defender as in 2003. You are confused.



Thanks Mailman.  Noted!


----------



## Drone (Jan 8, 2013)

rtwjunkie said:


> Bottom line....anyone that thinks that Windows Defender is all you need in Windows 8, is very likely being exposed to alot.



Built in antivirus doesn't mean being exposed to something. If one installs only legal software and don't click every single unsavory link they're basically ok. But when one is a main target to someone then no protection is perfect.

Bottom line: common sense and responsibility + good antivirus = win


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 8, 2013)

So...why did they decide to confuse everyone and essentially rename MSE?  That's a bonehead move.  Because all most people who know the history are gonna think is what I thought: Defender is a sad little anti-spyware.  Why not just make a new version of MSE like they did going from XP to windows 7?  And why take away what are essential features of legitimate antisviruses?  Has anyone actually tested this new "Defender" to see if it is on par with the basically good program that MSE is, or are we all taking MS word for it?


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 8, 2013)

Drone said:


> Bottom line: common sense and responsibility   good antivirus = win



I agree, Drone!!


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 8, 2013)

rtwjunkie said:


> So...why did they decide to confuse everyone and essentially rename MSE?  That's a bonehead move.  Because all most people who know the history are gonna think is what I thought: Defender is a sad little anti-spyware.  Why not just make a new version of MSE like they did going from XP to windows 7?  And why take away what are essential features of legitimate antisviruses?  Has anyone actually tested this new "Defender" to see if it is on par with the basically good program that MSE is, or are we all taking MS word for it?



MSE and Defender are the same thing. MSE has awesome passive detection and horrible zero day detection. Always has. Always will. Great thing about Windows 8 is it also uses secure boot and smart screen for the whole OS. Bottom line is Windows 8 currently is far more secure then Windows 7. Sprinkle Malwarebytes on top and you are good to go.

You dont even need a Anti-Virus if you don't DL torrents or visit porn sites and keep everything legit and are not a retard when it comes to opening mail.


----------



## Drone (Jan 8, 2013)

rtwjunkie said:


> So...why did they decide to confuse everyone and essentially rename MSE?  That's a bonehead move.


That's confusing indeed but what's done is done. At least when you try to install MSE in Windows 8 it won't let you do so.

From MSE Site:



> Windows Defender  for Windows 8 and Windows RT provides the same level of protection against malware as Microsoft Security Essentials. You can't use Microsoft Security Essentials with Windows 8, but you don't need to — Windows Defender is already included and ready to go.





> Has anyone actually tested this new "Defender" to see if it is on par with the basically good program that MSE is, or are we all taking MS word for it?



I've read W8 defender reviews by PCMAG and Techlogon and maybe someone else they all say that Win8 defender and MSE are almost equal. Defender is more robust though.
Neither is perfect against zero days but neither is the worst.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 8, 2013)

Drone said:


> I've read W8 defender reviews by PCMAG and Techlogon and maybe someone else they all say that Win8 defender and MSE are almost equal. Defender is more robust though.
> Neither is perfect against zero days but neither is the worst.



OK! Thanks for the info.  Every day is a learning experience.

@TheMailMan78: I mostly agree with you about not needing AV, but you can get a drive-by from even legitimate sites sometimes, which is mostly why my son has MSE and I have Avast Pro. It's like having a few extra airbags in the car...just in case.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 8, 2013)

rtwjunkie said:


> OK! Thanks for the info.  Every day is a learning experience.



You need to learn how to use the edit button so you don't double post.


----------



## 3870x2 (Jan 8, 2013)

He can still use both the edit and delete button to fix his mistake.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 9, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You need to learn how to use the edit button so you don't double post.



???  I almost always edit, sometimes 4 and 5 times, kind sir.


----------



## brandonwh64 (Jan 9, 2013)

rtwjunkie said:


> ???  I almost always edit, sometimes 4 and 5 times, kind sir.



You must have forgotten there...


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 9, 2013)

@brandonwh64: Oops, my bad, but apparently we have a misunderstanding of semantics.  I agree I could have combined the two posts, but in all my years of posting on forums, I have always understood a double-posting to be two postings of the same thing.

I shall go and attempt to combine and correct.


----------



## brandonwh64 (Jan 9, 2013)

rtwjunkie said:


> @brandonwh64: Oops, my bad, but apparently we have a misunderstanding of semantics.  I agree I could have combined the two posts, but in all my years of posting on forums, I have always understood a double-posting to be two postings of the same thing.
> 
> I shall go and attempt to combine and correct.



Answering multiple questing in one post is less clutter to look through than you posting 2-3 post to different people. This is why multiqoute works so well.


----------



## crazyeyesreaper (Jan 9, 2013)

meh i still use MSE i tested AVG awhile back on their newest version it wasnt bad but the built in firewall was nothing but a nightmare, Free version not an issue but if you pay for AVG the firewall tends to cock block ALOT of games. namely BF3.... and that was a pain in the ass. even disabled it didnt want to work untill i up and uninstalled it.

for the cheap and easy since i dont get infections MSE serves its purpose for full scans and check individual files which is all i need it for.

AVAST has been solid in the past but if i remember right for awhile they had a media player type interface that was god fucking awful.

overall doesnt matter much, people will use what they want, just like we pick and choose hardware, clothes and toilet paper and beer. honestly who gives a crap. virus and malware creators are focusing more and more on the mobile market so i dont see a reason to get all paranoid.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 9, 2013)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> meh i still use MSE i tested AVG awhile back on their newest version it wasnt bad but the built in firewall was nothing but a nightmare, Free version not an issue but if you pay for AVG the firewall tends to cock block ALOT of games. namely BF3.... and that was a pain in the ass. even disabled it didnt want to work untill i up and uninstalled it.
> 
> for the cheap and easy since i dont get infections MSE serves its purpose for full scans and check individual files which is all i need it for.
> 
> ...


 As I said before Avast on Android is the best on the market this quarter. Its a BEAST. Catches damn near 99% zero day on the mobile. On the PC as you said........it can be.......not so great. That's why Ive been hesitant to make any jump right now if at all.


----------



## crazyeyesreaper (Jan 9, 2013)

PC wise its fine, AVG Free is fine they all serve the damn purpose they were ment for.

If i was paranoid id just buy Kaspersky and be done with it lol
however im not paranoid, and MSE with Malwarebytes on those fuck it i dont care run a full scan days is all anyone really needs unless of course they roam the back alleys of the internet without there full body condom.






if you cant practice safe surfing habits then you probably should shell out for protection


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 9, 2013)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> right for awhile they had a media player type interface that was god fucking awful.



Very true!  No more media player interface.  Avast now is incredibly well laid out.  It has more options, all cleanly laid out than most people will know what to do with.  It has a good detection rate, is updated numerous times during the day, and has good sandboxing that it will do automatically (you can tell it to continue sandboxing, tell it the site or download is trusted, or turn it off and not use it, etc).  Definately worth a look see.  

But MSE is also very good.  I actually reccomend it to all my friends!


----------



## Drone (Jan 10, 2013)

The Best Antivirus for 2013
by PCMAG. If it's tl; dr for you then:

AVG, AVAST, Bitdefender, Malwarebytes and Kaspersky is their choice.

MSE didn't make it.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 11, 2013)

Well it looks like based on PCmag I'm going to have to stop reccomending MSe to my friends and co-workers before they all show up at my door with ptichforks and torches!  Thanks for the update Drone!


----------



## Melvis (Jan 12, 2013)

Drone said:


> The Best Antivirus for 2013
> by PCMAG. If it's tl; dr for you then:
> 
> AVG, AVAST, Bitdefender, Malwarebytes and Kaspersky is their choice.
> ...



No surprise there!!

Thanks for the link though, im interested in this webroot, sounds very good and interesting, going to look into that one (doesn't work on XP)


----------



## mediasorcerer (Jan 12, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Yeah of course. Its no big deal. Just use whatever works for you. I use a MSE+Malwarebytes and Ive been good for a while now (knocks on wood). Doesnt matter what you use. Its all in your browsing habits. Most infections are from java or people installing bootleg crap.





yes-yes=yes!!!^


----------



## shovenose (Jan 12, 2013)

I used to recommend MSE but it was never so good. A lot of people I built computers for that I put MSE on came back with viruses.

Ever since I started deploying machines with Avast I swear I haven't had a single one come back!
I deploy the customer/client machines with Avast Free, my personal laptop runs Avast Pro and my desktops will soon be upgraded to Pro, it's only $19.99/year!


----------



## Melvis (Jan 12, 2013)

shovenose said:


> I used to recommend MSE but it was never so good. A lot of people I built computers for that I put MSE on came back with viruses.
> 
> Ever since I started deploying machines with Avast I swear I haven't had a single one come back!
> I deploy the customer/client machines with Avast Free, my personal laptop runs Avast Pro and my desktops will soon be upgraded to Pro, it's only $19.99/year!



Thats exactly what i found also, good to hear someone else also having the same results as myself, excellent


----------



## shovenose (Jan 12, 2013)

Melvis said:


> Thats exactly what i found also, good to hear someone else also having the same results as myself, excellent



I forgot to mention my favorite part. 
http://www.avast.com/fun


----------



## Melvis (Jan 12, 2013)

shovenose said:


> I forgot to mention my favorite part.
> http://www.avast.com/fun



 thats awesome, im so going to give that a go!!


----------



## OneMoar (Jan 12, 2013)

so some no name group out of Germany failed mse, no data on what tests they ran no note about there methodology 
seems legit to me 
whats that saying
and not a single ƒuk was given .... that day
dave is right unless you taking a stroll though a piss poor part of interweb town av is pretty fracking useless
the hilarious part is that one could write a simple VB script to completely fubar a system and no av on the planet would pick it up lol


----------



## Melvis (Jan 12, 2013)

OneMoar said:


> the hilarious part is that one could write a simple VB script to completely fubar a system and no av on the planet would pick it up lol



Off you go then!!


----------



## Drone (Jan 17, 2013)

Update:

The top scores of 16.5 points went to *Bitdefender*. *Kaspersky* and *Norton* came in second, with 16 points each.

MSE and everyone else _failed_.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 17, 2013)

Apparently MSE failing these tests are pretty irrelevant. Even AV Test Institute is agreeing with MS that their (AV Test Institute) OWN testing methods need reviewing. Guess the E-peen contest continues.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57...hallenges-poor-grade-for-security-essentials/


----------



## Drone (Jan 17, 2013)

They only said they will improve their testings, they said nothing about MSE not failing. There's no need to pull things outta yr ass.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 17, 2013)

Drone said:


> They only said they will improve their testings, they said nothing about MSE not failing. There's no need to pull things outta yr ass.



They (MSE) failed by flawed testing methods. That's not a fail by MSE. That's a fail by the tester which ADMITTED they need to review their testing methods. I know it hurt some people personally but that's just life ya know?


----------



## OneMoar (Jan 17, 2013)

OneMoar said:


> so some no name group out of Germany failed mse, no data on what tests they ran no note about there methodology
> seems legit to me
> whats that saying
> and not a single ƒuk was given .... that day
> ...



quoting my self for truth


----------



## Drone (Jan 17, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> They (MSE) failed by flawed testing methods. That's not a fail by MSE. That's a fail by the tester which ADMITTED they need to review their testing methods. I know it hurt some people personally but that's just life ya know?



Tester admitted that their methods ain't perfect, they didn't say that mse wins if methods are 100% correct. What life? You make me laugh. Save your uber av expert opinions for someone who cares, no need to twist the truth.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 17, 2013)

Drone said:


> Tester admitted that their methods ain't perfect, they didn't say that mse wins if methods are 100% correct. What life? You make me laugh. Save your uber av expert opinions for someone who cares, no need to twist the truth.



There is no "winning" in this conversation. However there are proper testing methods to things and the tester in this case has admitted that thier testing is flawed. Flawed to the point that the CEO is contacting other AV companies to get feedback on how to adjust thier testing to be more accurate to real world senerios.

Its like you are saying they tested a battleship to see if it would float in a bath tub. It didn't. Its obviously not sea worthy. 

The testing method is flawed. Savvy?


----------



## brandonwh64 (Jan 17, 2013)

I think mailmans right.


----------



## erixx (Jan 17, 2013)

I just had my first warning in years, if we omit infected pendrives that people bring me.

While I was surfin' the net with Opera, Windows 8 Defender warning appeared with a sound: malware!! 

It was a nonsense named file in both Opera Caché and Temp folder that is defined as a Adobe PDF malware code. Upon closer examination and a second manual System check, Defender found two more malicous codes with same timestamp. Had to restart the computer.

I was visiting the usual trusted sites but had one tab with a site I never before visited: "Un poco geek" a spanish geek/gadgets site, must have been inyected from that one. (if anyone wants to test his AV : )  )


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 17, 2013)

erixx said:


> I just had my first warning in years, if we omit infected pendrives that people bring me.
> 
> While I was surfin' the net with Opera, Windows 8 Defender warning appeared with a sound: malware!!
> 
> ...



Chances are if you were using IE 10 it would have blocked the site all togther before anything would have even made it to your machine.


----------



## erixx (Jan 17, 2013)

I believe you, gotta test it now, fire in the hole!!!! 

... Tried it and nothing special happened. Maybe it was not the last page I visited but something during the session.  Ah! And behold, after Defender cleaned it, I got a scary "Svhost has stopped responding." 
The nasty files went into the quarentine, and I deleted them, but after about 5 minutes the same warnings came back! Not happy :/

Now running Antimalware full check....


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 18, 2013)

erixx said:


> I believe you, gotta test it now, fire in the hole!!!!
> 
> ... Tried it and nothing special happened. Maybe it was not the last page I visited but something during the session.  Ah! And behold, after Defender cleaned it, I got a scary "Svhost has stopped responding."
> The nasty files went into the quarentine, and I deleted them, but after about 5 minutes the same warnings came back! Not happy :/
> ...



Try clearing your cache and deleting all temp files using "disk cleanup". What I bet happen is you got hit with a java exploit variant of blackhole that DL other nasties on your rig.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackhole_exploit_kit

Try Malwarebytes also man. It cleans up (once detected) better then ANY AV program.

*EDIT:* Also to be "100% sure" you can boot from the Kapersky Rescue Disk 10. Its free and it will allow you to boot from a CD and scan the MBR partition along with the OS drive without ever booting into them. Its a great way to catch root kits and nasties in the MBR that a lot of AV tend to miss.
https://support.kaspersky.com/4162

Once you are "clean" I would also run a window integrity check. All it takes is one corrupt DLL to mess everything up.
System File Integrity Checker (SFC) - Protect Wind...


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## erixx (Jan 18, 2013)

Did that already, thanks, including browser caches, windows temps and java cache...
(Waiting for the day that programs cannot write temps out of their asses everywhere like a dog with diarrea...)

Now I have peace, no more signs of this malware..aha... bytes


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 18, 2013)

erixx said:


> Did that already, thanks, including browser caches, windows temps and java cache...
> (Waiting for the day that programs cannot write temps out of their asses everywhere like a dog with diarrea...)
> 
> Now I have peace, no more signs of this malware..aha... bytes



Check out my edit above your last post.


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## Melvis (Jan 18, 2013)

TheMailMan78 said:


> They (MSE) failed by flawed testing methods. That's not a fail by MSE. That's a fail by the tester which ADMITTED they need to review their testing methods. I know it hurt some people personally but that's just life ya know?



Was it just MSE they failed at testing or does that include all the others that also were tested?


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