# Major Ethical Issue



## TheMailMan78 (Apr 6, 2008)

I have a problem. I told my wife I wouldn't buy another upgrade for my computer this year since I bought my 2900XT. However I found a 8800GT 1gig for less than 200 bucks. Iv looked at dozens of benchmarks and I'm not sure which is the better. They seem pretty close with the 8800 pulling ahead in some places.

ATI used to be my team but after they stuck us 2900XT users with the 3870 for half the price 
within just a few months Im kinda sore. The 1900 series was around for at least a year before the 2000 series. And when the 2000 series came its flagship was 400 bones. Not like the 3870. See where I am coming from?

So now that you have some background here are my questions.

1. Do you guys think the 8800GTs will have a longer lifespan than the 2900s? Also how are the drivers for the 8800GT? Can it still get better or are the capped out?

2. After years of playing battlefield on ATI and Nvidia are the shadows still fixed on the Nvidia? I'm asking because ATIs shadows look like crap on that engine.

3. Is the performance gain of the 8800GT over the 2900XT worth a month of bitching and "alone time" :shadedshu

Any sugestions are welcome!


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## Jimmy 2004 (Apr 6, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> 3. Is the performance gain of the 8800GT over the 2900 worth a month of bitching and "alone time" :shadedshu



I personally wouldn't put my computer before my family, so I'd say don't get it if it will annoy/upset your wife.


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## beyond_amusia (Apr 6, 2008)

You could always return the 2900XT for a refund (if possible) and use the $ towards a better card... =)  You could even site the release of the 3870 so soon after your purchase as your reason for a refund and if you bitch enuff they'll usually give in and let you either extange it or give oyu a refund. As to ATI vs. nVidia look at it like this; AMD realizes that they will remain in 2nd place with CPU performance for the near future, so they are putting more effort towards their graphics line. Another thing to look at is that ATI is coming to the table with newer stuff faster than nVidia as far as features go, such as dual GPU cards and extra stuff in the DX10 cards that Ms decided to support in DX10.1


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 6, 2008)

I appreciate the advice Jimmy. I do. No sarcasm. Its just Iv been married for over 10 years and have two kids. I would never but something like this before my family. However you dont know my wife. She doesn't need an excuse to be pissed off at me. She just needs oxygen. Its just how much Im willing to deal with. Im guessing a good two weeks on this one.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 6, 2008)

beyond_amusia said:


> You could always return the 2900XT for a refund (if possible) and use the $ towards a better card... =)  You could even site the release of the 3870 so soon after your purchase as your reason for a refund and if you bitch enuff they'll usually give in and let you either extange it or give oyu a refund. As to ATI vs. nVidia look at it like this; AMD realizes that they will remain in 2nd place with CPU performance for the near future, so they are putting more effort towards their graphics line. Another thing to look at is that ATI is coming to the table with newer stuff faster than nVidia as far as features go, such as dual GPU cards and extra stuff in the DX10 cards that Ms decided to support in DX10.1



Well Im going to sell my 2900 to buy the 8800. I figured I can still get 200+ for the 2900 and thats enough for the 8800. But is the 8800 worth the trouble?


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## 3870x2 (Apr 6, 2008)

Lol, i feel your pain.
unless you are going to make an upgrade to an 8800gts or something of the like, i wouldnt recommend that you upgrade your card in such small increments.  If you do, here in 2 months that card will be obsolete, etc, etc...


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 6, 2008)

I thought the 8800gts was slower than the GT. Its specs are slower. Correct?


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## Disparia (Apr 6, 2008)

Here was the answer for my wife:







I don't get my upgrade until she get's hers


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## beyond_amusia (Apr 6, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Well Im going to sell my 2900 to buy the 8800. I figured I can still get 200+ for the 2900 and thats enough for the 8800. But is the 8800 worth the trouble?



I know what you mean about her flipping out and shit...  If you sell the old and buy the new, give her the extra $ or buy her something with the extra $.  =)  if she still bitches, return what you bought her to the store and give the $ to your kids instead. =P


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## Jimmy 2004 (Apr 6, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I thought the 8800gts was slower than the GT. Its specs are slower. Correct?



There's two versions of the GTS. There's the original 340MB one, which is slower, and then there's the new 512MB/1GB version which uses the G92 core and is a bit quicker than the 8800 GT.

Quite confusing really.


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## Uber_n00b (Apr 6, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Well Im going to sell my 2900 to buy the 8800. I figured I can still get 200+ for the 2900 and thats enough for the 8800. But is the 8800 worth the trouble?



8800GT (512mb)  VS. 2900xt on Battlefield 2142 (1600x1200)

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=857&model2=1057&chart=278

If my setup is hitting less then 30fps and the and the new card will keep me well above that mark, I'd be willing to spend 2 weeks in the dog house for that privilege.


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## philbrown23 (Apr 6, 2008)

nooooo don't buy the 8800gt!! the drivers are less than stellar and if you just sell it and buy a hd3870 or 2 for that matter it will smoke that 8800gt in most places, also if you intend to go dual cards nvidia has a long way to go before they can match up with how good ati cards scale together.


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 6, 2008)

2900XT is a beast man. IMO, I would say stay with what you have. BTW, Whats max res of the monitor you game on? Anser that and I can give you an even better answer.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 6, 2008)

1600 16:10. However Iv been doing 1450 lately due to frame rate issues.

As for buying the 3870.....well its the whole reason I might leave ATI and go back to Nvidia. Did you read the first post?


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 6, 2008)

What kind of frame rate issues? Possible that your card is overheating?


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## Tatty_One (Apr 6, 2008)

philbrown23 said:


> nooooo don't buy the 8800gt!! the drivers are less than stellar and if you just sell it and buy a hd3870 or 2 for that matter it will smoke that 8800gt in most places, also if you intend to go dual cards nvidia has a long way to go before they can match up with how good ati cards scale together.



Are you suggesting here that the HD3870 "smokes" the 8800GT??  Not sure also what you mean by "drivers are less than steller", having owned one HIS 3870 and four 8800GT's I can tell you one thing, the driver set for the 3870 is some way behind the 8800GT!


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 6, 2008)

Naa just less than 35fps in COD4. Shes rock solid. Also according to Uber Noobs link to Toms Hardware the 8800 smokes the 2900

Hey Tatty One the card in your sig is the exact one I am looking at buying for less than 200!!!


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 6, 2008)

35 fps?! WIth all eye candy?


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## PaulieG (Apr 6, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I have a problem. I told my wife I wouldn't buy another upgrade for my computer this year since I bought my 2900XT. However I found a 8800GT 1gig for less than 200 bucks. Iv looked at dozens of benchmarks and I'm not sure which is the better. They seem pretty close with the 8800 pulling ahead in some places.
> 
> ATI used to be my team but after they stuck us 2900XT users with the 3870 for half the price
> within just a few months Im kinda sore. The 1900 series was around for at least a year before the 2000 series. And when the 2000 series came its flagship was 400 bones. Not like the 3870. See where I am coming from?
> ...



Man, I go through this situation all of the time. It's never a matter of "putting family first" because money isn't a huge issue for us, but my wife thinks it's a "waste" of money, simply because she doesn't understand the hobby. We've come up with some good compromises. Like, if I can come up with half of the money for something by selling something I already have, she won't give me crap.


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## mrhuggles (Apr 6, 2008)

you know the 2900 can outclock the 3870 right?, actually it can kinda overclock really well :?


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## 3870x2 (Apr 6, 2008)

incorrect.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 6, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Naa just less than 35fps in COD4. Shes rock solid. Also according to Uber Noobs link to Toms Hardware the 8800 smokes the 2900
> 
> Hey Tatty One the card in your sig is the exact one I am looking at buying for less than 200!!!



I didnt pay anywhere near that for the 2 of mine together.......


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 6, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> 35 fps?! WIth all eye candy?


Of course thats with everything maxed out. I wouldnt have it any other way. However I like to be at least around 50+ to be ideal.

As for Paulieg comment you sound like me. With my wife its a battle between my computer and my Mustang GT. Money isn't the issue in my case for the most part. I'm not rich but I do well. Its more of a principle thing. I feel like ATI screwed me with the cost of the 2900. Its a great card but for them to release a better GPU in a few months time for half the price is just wrong man. This isnt about money as it is a lack of respect for the customer.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 6, 2008)

Tatty_One said:


> I didnt pay anywhere near that for the 2 of mine together.......



Is that the 1gig you have there? If so TALK TO ME! How do I acquire one for what you did?


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 6, 2008)

I still say leave everything as is. If you need 50+ fps, turn off AA.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 6, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Is that the 1gig you have there? If so TALK TO ME! How do I acquire one for what you did?



Yes 2 1GB cards....and sorry you dont!...   As for the 2900XT v 8800GT thing, yes the GT is a bit faster, but not enuff to fall out with the wife!  I would stick with the XT, still a damn nice card but if you must have those extra few FPS....the palit is a good choice!


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## mrw1986 (Apr 6, 2008)

1gb is useless, theres a review on it.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 6, 2008)

How about the G92 8800GTS. Worth the war?


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## Tatty_One (Apr 6, 2008)

mrw1986 said:


> 1gb is useless, theres a review on it.



Definatly useless at stock speeds, not quite so useless above 700mhz   not worth paying a big premium for though at the moment.


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## Gam'ster (Apr 6, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> However you dont know my wife. She doesn't need an excuse to be pissed off at me. She just needs oxygen.




 Omg i cant wait to use that one on the G/f she'll  me.

But on topic, id keep the 2900xt for a while, see what ATI's next offerings are the 4k series or see how the 9 series pans out but i think the 2900xt will hold you over for a few months yet.
My 2p.

Cheers
Gam


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## theonetruewill (Apr 6, 2008)

Whenever I am posed with this sort of dilemma I simply ask myself something similar to this: Do I actually NEED the performance of the new card? Am I not able to play my games enjoyably currently? 

The above is why I replaced my 7600GT and X1900GT's but have kept my lovely X1950XTX


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## Mussels (Apr 6, 2008)

its easy, the 8800 is a great card and yes faster than the older one, and the drivers ARE getting better.

My advice is a 9600GT, same card only cheaper again - and sell the old stuff first! your wife cant complain if it only 'cost' $20 and you go without beer that weekend.


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## Deusxmachina (Apr 6, 2008)

8800GT 512 is faster than a 2900XT.  Having said that, is it faster enough to notice much if any?  With AA, maybe, without, maybe not.  Unless you're fighting for every last fps in something like Crysis to make it playable, then x card being 10% or whatever faster than y card isn't too big a deal if they both are still playable.  10% is 10fps at 100fps, but it's only 4fps at 40fps and 3fps at 30fps.  How much are those 3 or 4 fps worth to a person?  

If you can indeed sell the 2900xt for as much as you think, I'd do it in a second.  I don't think the XT is worth a damn over a lowly 256bit PRO, and heck, it's used goods now, even.  If you can get a faster and newer card for about the same price as a slower, older card, not sure why the question even needs to be asked.

Some of the marriage stuff in this thread reminds me to beware.  Assuming spending a few bucks on a quick car or quick computer is the worst thing a husband does and he's not throwing money away at a bar every weekend while watching 12 hours of football or whatever, a wife should be on her knees giving thanks that she married such a good man.


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## mrw1986 (Apr 6, 2008)

Deusxmachina said:


> Some of the marriage stuff in this thread reminds me to beware.  Assuming spending a few bucks on a quick car or quick computer is the worst thing a husband does and he's not throwing money away at a bar every weekend while watching 12 hours of football or whatever, a wife should be on her knees giving thanks that she married such a good man.



Tell my girl that...I've never drank, smoked, or done ANY drug in my entire life and I have no intention of doing so. Yet she complains when I buy anything!


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## Mussels (Apr 6, 2008)

i know a girl who broke up with her BF because he was going overseas and she thought he'd cheat on her... but all he did was get drunk and smoke weed, and never even spent time with her - he never left his house because he was too wasted.

women tend to be crazy 

my advice is still as i said above: get an ugprade, but get it cheap - start advertising your card now for $150-$200 (depending on your currency) and save up a few $ to cover the rest when the time comes.


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## farlex85 (Apr 6, 2008)

I'd say like the others before the xt is a solid car still and moving to anything you have talked about wouldn't really be that much of an upgrade. Give it a few months and see how things go. ATI will release the 4xxx series soon, and that would be a worthwhile upgrade more likely. And nvidia 9900 stuff might be worth the upgrade to. Wait it out.

Plus, you know with women timing is everything, if you can make her happy (I'm not going to tell you how), she may be less disagreeable if you can lay it down sweet. Just try to time it well with the card you will want.


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## exodusprime1337 (Apr 6, 2008)

i'm sorry to hear about this delemma man, i wouldn't personnally let me wife tell what i could and couldn't buy.  aside from my thoughts that you and you're wife to to reevaluate your contracts or something.  i would say the 8800gt is a better card, and the gtsg92 is a hell of a performer.  i personally have one.


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## Mussels (Apr 6, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> I'd say like the others before the xt is a solid car still and moving to anything you have talked about wouldn't really be that much of an upgrade. Give it a few months and see how things go. ATI will release the 4xxx series soon, and that would be a worthwhile upgrade more likely. And nvidia 9900 stuff might be worth the upgrade to. Wait it out.
> 
> Plus, you know with women timing is everything, if you can make her happy (I'm not going to tell you how), she may be less disagreeable if you can lay it down sweet. Just try to time it well with the card you will want.



its not that i disagree with your thinking, i just feel that in 6 months when those cards are out his card wont sell for anywhere near as much as it would today... in effect, costing him more.


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## nflesher87 (Apr 6, 2008)

just keep the 2900 lol, it's not worth it bro and you can hopefully show her by not buying it that you value her opinion and requests above your own
your other option is still buying it and selling the 2900 for at least the $150 it's worth used (if 512MB I didn't look to see if 1GB) and you'll almost break even


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## farlex85 (Apr 6, 2008)

Mussels said:


> its not that i disagree with your thinking, i just feel that in 6 months when those cards are out his card wont sell for anywhere near as much as it would today... in effect, costing him more.



This is true the value will drop and he will maybe have to pay a little more. However, remember the values of the cards he is looking at buying now will also drop, most likely evening this difference out. 

To me though, it would be worth it to wait for the next gen b/c it would be a much greater leap in performance. A 1gb gt is to me not worth it, nor is really an 8800gts(g92)(although thats getting close). If he was going to trade now, to make it worth it I would say an x2 would be in order, but then the cost has gone up a good deal anyway. If he can hold out for a few months, the new stuff would be a much more worthwhile upgrade, and should be able to last a while. And of course, at that point, the x2, 8800gts, and 8800gt will all be much cheaper then so......


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## Mussels (Apr 6, 2008)

actually i dont think those cards will get cheaper - once they reach a certain point the price actually goes up, as there is no stock left except at the most expensiv places. the 8800GT will not get any cheaper from now on, because they no longer make them in favour of the 9600GT.

Its a strange trend, but go look for older cards in stores and you'll see what i mean (x1800/x1900 still sell for ridiculous prices)


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## farlex85 (Apr 6, 2008)

That may be true. I would expect at least the g92 gts to go down a bit, but you may be right about them not dropping too much more. Even if this is the case though, the move to an 8800gt would not offer much of a performance increase, and the money would be better spent later on something that is more of an upgrade (even if it is more money). Especially if the wife is hounding you every step of the way, if your gonna piss her off make it count.


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## newconroer (Apr 7, 2008)

Jimmy 2004 said:


> I personally wouldn't put my computer before my family, so I'd say don't get it if it will annoy/upset your wife.



Someone with brains and a soul... o m g    suck on that white collards(is that a word??!?).


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 7, 2008)

newconroer said:


> Someone with brains and a soul... o m g    suck on that white collards(is that a word??!?).



Im not sure....is that a jab at me?


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## flashstar (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm not sure why you are getting 35 fps in COD4 @ full settings. I get 50 average with my 2900pro/xt 512 bit 512 mb...

Crysis plays at 22 fps average on all high settings. The 8800gt gets 25-26 average? Definitely not worth it.


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## yogurt_21 (Apr 7, 2008)

the fps change isn't going to be much between the two, the only reason i'd say sell your 2900 and get the 8800 is due to heat and fan noise. WHile the frames may not be much, the 8800gt runs cooler and will porbably be quieter. though for that road the 9600gt will be ever cooler and quieter and give similar performance.


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## 3870x2 (Apr 8, 2008)

I dont believe there was enough sufficient evidence to put something as harsh as "putting something before his family".  I don't know why people are so eager to upset others in this forum.


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## tkpenalty (Apr 8, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I have a problem. I told my wife I wouldn't buy another upgrade for my computer this year since I bought my 2900XT. However I found a 8800GT 1gig for less than 200 bucks. Iv looked at dozens of benchmarks and I'm not sure which is the better. They seem pretty close with the 8800 pulling ahead in some places.
> 
> ATI used to be my team but after they stuck us 2900XT users with the 3870 for half the price
> within just a few months Im kinda sore. The 1900 series was around for at least a year before the 2000 series. And when the 2000 series came its flagship was 400 bones. Not like the 3870. See where I am coming from?
> ...



Do not EVER put your PC before your family. End of story. 

Just answering your points.

Point 1 = Invalid, but AMD will probably support the HD2900XT for ages to come compared to Nvidia who drop support after one or two years. 

Point 2 = Blame EA. 

Point 3 = NO. A divorce due to your indulgence in gaming/better PC parts is certainly never a good thing. I'd instead of gaming spend time with her instead.



3870x2 said:


> I dont believe there was enough sufficient evidence to put something as harsh as "putting something before his family".  I don't know why people are so eager to upset others in this forum.



We aren't eager to upset people, we are here to help. We don't want to see him suffer.


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## FR@NK (Apr 8, 2008)

I dont think there will be much of an increase in performance comparing a 2900xt and a 8800gt when paired up with a AMD 4200+ processor. Most reviewers are using a much faster processor to remove any CPU bottleneck.


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## Nitro-Max (Apr 8, 2008)

Id stick with what you have unless its really struggling in games  untill you really need the extra preformance id keep my wife sweet theres nothing worse than a pissed off woman lol.
plus cards get replaced so dam fast on the front page now there on about replaceing the 9800gx2 already!

Buy ur wife somthing instead to keep her sweet.


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## Nitro-Max (Apr 8, 2008)

I spend on my pc all the time but as soon as my wife says "i need" "the kids need" thats it my money goes on them without question.
Infact im off out in 20 mins going out buying my son new clothes hes growing so dam quick lol hes 1 year old next month.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 8, 2008)

Ok guys. Just to be clear my wife wouldn't like it if I bought another video card. Or course I hate it when she brings home speeding tickets. Bottom line is our relationship is a little stronger than to lose it over this trivial. She just would just complain for a while that's all.

Anyone married knows this is a two way street. Marriage is just one big compromise with how much your wiling to take. Honestly I think the original comment of putting anything before my family IS harsh. But that's besides the point. I know it was meant to be helpful.

Anyway back on topic. I ran FRAPS last night and I realized something stupid on my part (Thank you flashstar). I had adaptive AA on in my Catalyst. Once I turned that off I was hitting 75fps in COD4 with a minimum of 48. Now my question is do you guys think my 4200+ X2 is bottlenecking my card? Granted she's not as fast as some of the newer CPUs but she doesn't seem all that slow ether. I would never have thought it to be a bottleneck.



Nitro-Max said:


> I spend on my pc all the time but as soon as my wife says "i need" "the kids need" thats it my money goes on them without question.
> Infact im off out in 20 mins going out buying my son new clothes hes growing so dam quick lol hes 1 year old next month.



Thank you. This is exactly how I feel. When you buy something for the computer I bet your wife at least makes a little bit of a fuss. Most women see these things as giant calculators that keep their men from listening to their wife's feelings.


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## Nitro-Max (Apr 8, 2008)

I think it probably is the cpu thats the bottleneck but 75fps is playable.
if it was 60fps and below then id be thinking about some upgrades.


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## Mussels (Apr 8, 2008)

i'd just do some OCing on that CPU and make sure


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## 3870x2 (Apr 8, 2008)

Thats true, cards do get replaced often.  Take the low FPS for now, and wait it out to see what is going to come in the near future (probably next 3 months)


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## mrhuggles (Apr 8, 2008)

ive heard alot of really good things about overclocking the 4200


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 8, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> This is exactly how I feel. When you buy something for the computer I bet your wife at least makes a little bit of a fuss. Most women see these things as giant calculators that keep their men from listening to their wife's feelings.



My wife is even worse, she knows about the hardware that's the bad part. But she puts it in a way that is quite interesting:

"Why are you planning on buying that honey? We don't need that one." OR "Wait for the new Intel stuff, I heard they are going to be nice."

She is awesome, and yes she has built a few PC's in her day.


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## jbodin (Apr 8, 2008)

I'm pretty lucky -- my wife is VERY supportive of my obsession . . . er, "hobby."  



Seriously, though, I do a lot of sim racing, and she knows that the computer hardware is expensive, but it's still far, FAR less expensive than even the least-expensive form of REAL racing would be.  Plus, she always knows where I am -- if I was a bowler instead of a gamer, then I'd be out late at least several times a month, spending money in a bowling league, eating out on league nights, etc., and I'd be that much less accessible to her and to our kids.  Given "real-world" alternatives, she's actually glad that I have a hobby that I can enjoy at home because even if she's watching TV and I'm racing on the computer (with headphones, of course!), we're still "together" a lot more than we would be if I was out bowling, racing, hunting, etc..

Sometimes it's all about how you look at it.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 8, 2008)

Nitro-Max said:


> I think it probably is the cpu thats the bottleneck but 75fps is playable.
> if it was 60fps and below then id be thinking about some upgrades.



Well my refresh rate is only 75 at 1450 so it wouldnt matter if I could go higher. You guys got me thinking about my CPU now. What would be a good way to check if my CPU is a bottleneck?



jbodin said:


> Seriously, though, I do a lot of sim racing, and she knows that the computer hardware is expensive, but it's still far, FAR less expensive than even the least-expensive form of REAL racing would be.



Sadly I have other hobbies. Guns and Cars. Both of which are kinda pricey. :shadedshu


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## farlex85 (Apr 8, 2008)

75 fps is more than playable, thats perfectly solid. The temptation to upgrade is always there (I have so many wish lists on newegg), but in your case, I would try to hold out a bit more. Then, in a little while, perhaps a mb, cpu, and vc upgrade all at once will be in order.


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## Mussels (Apr 9, 2008)

if you want to see if the CPU is bottlenecking it, run 3dm05 and 3dm06, before and after some form of CPU OC

if you can get 100Mhz and you get a noticeable gain (over 5%) then i'd place a sure bet that your CPU is holding you back. (oh and in 06, refer to the SM 2.0/3.0 scores - the CPU one will obviously go up regardless)


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## PaulieG (Apr 9, 2008)

Deusxmachina said:


> 8800GT 512 is faster than a 2900XT.  Having said that, is it faster enough to notice much if any?  With AA, maybe, without, maybe not.  Unless you're fighting for every last fps in something like Crysis to make it playable, then x card being 10% or whatever faster than y card isn't too big a deal if they both are still playable.  10% is 10fps at 100fps, but it's only 4fps at 40fps and 3fps at 30fps.  How much are those 3 or 4 fps worth to a person?
> 
> If you can indeed sell the 2900xt for as much as you think, I'd do it in a second.  I don't think the XT is worth a damn over a lowly 256bit PRO, and heck, it's used goods now, even.  If you can get a faster and newer card for about the same price as a slower, older card, not sure why the question even needs to be asked.
> 
> Some of the marriage stuff in this thread reminds me to beware.  Assuming spending a few bucks on a quick car or quick computer is the worst thing a husband does and he's not throwing money away at a bar every weekend while watching 12 hours of football or whatever, a wife should be on her knees giving thanks that she married such a good man.



LOL, I'll have to tell my wife that. Talk about a  LOL Not to mention, I won't get any for at least a week.


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## ShadowFold (Apr 9, 2008)

You guys are nuts. The HD 2900XT is still a great card and going from it to a 8800GT would be just plain stupid and pointless. Especially when your wife doesnt want you to!


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## Mussels (Apr 9, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> You guys are nuts. The HD 2900XT is still a great card and going from it to a 8800GT would be just plain stupid and pointless. Especially when your wife doesnt want you to!



if he can sell his XT and get a 9600Gt for peanuts, its quite worth it. The question comes down now, does he have a buyer?


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 9, 2008)

Mussels said:


> if he can sell his XT and get a 9600Gt for peanuts, its quite worth it. The question comes down now, does he have a buyer?



The 9600Gt is better than the 2900XT? Hows that?


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## ShadowFold (Apr 9, 2008)

Selling a 2900XT for a 9600GT would be retarded. They perform on pretty much the same level.


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## strick94u (Apr 9, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I have a problem. I told my wife I wouldn't buy another upgrade for my computer this year since I bought my 2900XT. However I found a 8800GT 1gig for less than 200 bucks. Iv looked at dozens of benchmarks and I'm not sure which is the better. They seem pretty close with the 8800 pulling ahead in some places.
> 
> ATI used to be my team but after they stuck us 2900XT users with the 3870 for half the price
> within just a few months Im kinda sore. The 1900 series was around for at least a year before the 2000 series. And when the 2000 series came its flagship was 400 bones. Not like the 3870. See where I am coming from?
> ...



Don't tell her thats how I do it 
I also don't let her know how much I have in my checking account.
My new car is cutting into this of course but I'll figure something out


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## PaulieG (Apr 9, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Selling a 2900XT for a 9600GT would be retarded. They perform on pretty much the same level.



Agreed. Actually, with the right drivers, the 2900XT is the better card, in everything except power consumption.


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## FatForester (Apr 9, 2008)

Yea, I say stick with what you got. I upgraded from my old AMD rig to Intel for no good reason and ever since then I have barely used the thing. I regret it now, especially with Nehalem coming along end of this year. Of course, you could always pick up a 8800GT / 9600GT and say you're "saving money" on the energy bill.


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## pepsi71ocean (Apr 9, 2008)

Jizzler said:


> Here was the answer for my wife:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


rotfl, lol


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## Silverel (Apr 9, 2008)

You could also go with a new cooler for it, spend about 40$, and OC the piss out of it. Definitely give you a boost in frames.

Try Omega drivers, every now and then depending on the game, they fare much much better. I went from 1280x1024 and 35fps in Halo, to 1600x1200 and 32fps on this 9600pro. Not to mention it allowed me a better OC on the core, from 480 to 520 without a problem gaming for a few hours.

I vote no on a new card. There's no difference in performance worth mentioning (if at all) for the price you'd be able to get from selling it. For 10-20% more performance you'd be looking at another 100$ or so.


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## Mussels (Apr 9, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Selling a 2900XT for a 9600GT would be retarded. They perform on pretty much the same level.



except that the 9600 runs colder, quieter, and OC's beyond the XT's levels.


I wouldnt upgrade from that normally, but depending on what he sells the card for i see it as an upgrade.

I am biased towards the 9600GT, i will admit that. i think its just an overall excellent card since both it and the 8800GT can be run passively (accelero S1) - its kinda something i like.


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## candle_86 (Apr 9, 2008)

philbrown23 said:


> nooooo don't buy the 8800gt!! the drivers are less than stellar and if you just sell it and buy a hd3870 or 2 for that matter it will smoke that 8800gt in most places, also if you intend to go dual cards nvidia has a long way to go before they can match up with how good ati cards scale together.



hey man what ever your smokin don't hold out on us


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## candle_86 (Apr 9, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> My wife is even worse, she knows about the hardware that's the bad part. But she puts it in a way that is quite interesting:
> 
> "Why are you planning on buying that honey? We don't need that one." OR "Wait for the new Intel stuff, I heard they are going to be nice."
> 
> She is awesome, and yes she has built a few PC's in her day.



lol my gf is the total oppisite of that, though we do share money now lol. Anytime i buy computer stuff, she just asks if i need it, if i say yes she just says ok. Hope that stays if we get married, shes braindead about computers, i could tell her a QX9700 is slow and needs to be replaced and shed belive me


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## 3870x2 (Apr 9, 2008)

Yeah,  Im the breadwinner, currently anyway, so she doesnt mind if i spend a bit extra on myself, so long as she gets a luis vuitton or dooney an bourke purse every now and then.


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## {JNT}Raptor (Apr 9, 2008)

You will see a far greater Increase In performance by Upgrading....or over clocking the CPU Instead.

Hope It helps.


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 9, 2008)

{JNT}Raptor said:


> You will see a far greater Increase In performance by Upgrading....or over clocking the CPU Instead.
> 
> Hope It helps.



I wish I could overclock. My bios is HP and its locked. I cant find any overclocking software ether.


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## Mussels (Apr 9, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I wish I could overclock. My bios is HP and its locked. I cant find any overclocking software ether.



well in that case, you're better off buying a new mobo instead of a video card


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 10, 2008)

Mussels said:


> well in that case, you're better off buying a new mobo instead of a video card



Thats not going to happen anytime soon. I have a 939 socket. If I replace the board then I have to change the ram, cpu and power supply. Anyone know any good software?


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## Mussels (Apr 10, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Thats not going to happen anytime soon. I have a 939 socket. If I replace the board then I have to change the ram, cpu and power supply. Anyone know any good software?



you could try looking for setFSB and such, but they need some info to get working - google for your mobo and see if anything comes up.


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## VroomBang (Apr 10, 2008)

Jizzler said:


> Here was the answer for my wife:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the way to go!


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## VroomBang (Apr 10, 2008)

Uber_n00b said:


> 8800GT (512mb)  VS. 2900xt on Battlefield 2142 (1600x1200)
> 
> http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=857&model2=1057&chart=278
> 
> If my setup is hitting less then 30fps and the and the new card will keep me well above that mark, I'd be willing to spend 2 weeks in the dog house for that privilege.



That 8800GT is oc'd though.

If it's really the 8800 you're after, wait a couple of months, once prices have gone down a bit. However, I would personally wait for better cards to come out before upgrading the 2900. I'd go for sthing that can play Crysis with max settings, otherwise no point in upgrading.


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## VroomBang (Apr 10, 2008)

mrw1986 said:


> Tell my girl that...I've never drank, smoked, or done ANY drug in my entire life and I have no intention of doing so. Yet she complains when I buy anything!



Let her watch tv shows about all sorts of nasty addictions (alcohol / sex / drugs / money games etc). She's had it so good that she doesn't realise or recognise how lucky she is.


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## anticlutch (Apr 10, 2008)

Tatty_One said:


> Are you suggesting here that the HD3870 "smokes" the 8800GT??  Not sure also what you mean by "drivers are less than steller", having owned one HIS 3870 and four 8800GT's I can tell you one thing, the driver set for the 3870 is some way behind the 8800GT!



The 3870 may not "smoke" the 8800GT but at least the ATi card runs AA and AF properly.


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## VroomBang (Apr 10, 2008)

JrRacinFan said:


> My wife is even worse, she knows about the hardware that's the bad part. But she puts it in a way that is quite interesting:
> 
> "Why are you planning on buying that honey? We don't need that one." OR "Wait for the new Intel stuff, I heard they are going to be nice."
> 
> She is awesome, and yes she has built a few PC's in her day.



Where did you find her???


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## Nitro-Max (Apr 10, 2008)

Jizzler said:


> Here was the answer for my wife:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Pretty much the same for me lol i got her a pc for downstairs and a abox 360 and a heap of games.

Now my life is peacefull "FOR NOW" 

Oh ye and i also bought clothes etc.. 

you definatly have to keep the wife sweet be it money or sex


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## ShadowFold (Apr 10, 2008)

I got my girlfriend a 600$ laptop that was silver and she liked it  cheap works too


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## Silverel (Apr 10, 2008)

Nitro-Max said:


> you definatly have to keep the wife sweet be it money or sex




Bah, if I were so lucky, she wants more of the former and less of the latter. I'm considering raising sheep as an alternative.


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## Mussels (Apr 10, 2008)

anticlutch said:


> The 3870 may not "smoke" the 8800GT but at least the ATi card runs AA and AF properly.



wait, what? this is the same ATI card that cant even render AA in hardware we're talking about, right?

I certainly have no issues with AA and AF on my GT or GTX...


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## Palit_Guy (May 1, 2008)

I just went from a 2900 to an 8800 and I don't really notice any performance difference.  Please note I DID NOT SAY there isn't any difference.

But playing CoD4 and QW:ET and DDO and the beta version of AoC I haven't noticed with my own eyes any real difference between the two.

Having said that, I have to ask, does the 2900 you have not do something you need?

I have to fall back on the old adage, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## Mussels (May 1, 2008)

Palit_Guy said:


> I just went from a 2900 to an 8800 and I don't really notice any performance difference.  Please note I DID NOT SAY there isn't any difference.
> 
> But playing CoD4 and QW:ET and DDO and the beta version of AoC I haven't noticed with my own eyes any real difference between the two.
> 
> ...



well you did just list Cod4 and old quake wars. those two i personally know do not need shiny new hardware to run, they will get great performance on older hardware. on the 8800, make sure you set textures manually to extra in cod4 for the best looks


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## Palit_Guy (May 1, 2008)

AoC is a brand new engine.  If you haven't seen it yet I have to tell you it rivals Crysis in terms of pretty and that's even in DX9.

Of course there are a slew of benchmarks that will show the performance difference between the two cards and the 2900 doesn't always win so it's completely possible to measure a performance difference.  But if you're just playing a game I have yet to see or feel much difference.


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## swaaye (May 1, 2008)

I would definitely wait now for the newer GPUs coming in a few months. Going from a 2900 XT to a 8800 is just not going to be worth the $$, IMO. You picked the wrong card for this generation, but it's not THAT much slower.


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## hat (May 1, 2008)

Turn DOWN aa.
Lots of people here like 16xAA, I don't understand it... 4x is fine.


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## Mussels (May 2, 2008)

hat said:


> Turn DOWN aa.
> Lots of people here like 16xAA, I don't understand it... 4x is fine.



i use 4x as a max. cant see the difference beyond that, and often it looks worse (supreme commander for example, yellow text bars become orange at 8x and above when zoomed out.)


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## ZenEffect (May 3, 2008)

3870x2 said:


> incorrect.



want to compare clocks?


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## Temps_Riising (May 3, 2008)

I just changed my old 2900XT for a 8800GTS 512MB just a couple of weeks ago, the 2900XT overclocked like a madman, this GTS overclocks even better, I can get 850mhz stable out of the core but in most games, again, I dont see too much difference, there are a couple, like GRAW2 that run a little more smoothly at max everything but in most everyday use both are good.


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## nicolais86 (May 9, 2008)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I appreciate the advice Jimmy. I do. No sarcasm. Its just Iv been married for over 10 years and have two kids. I would never but something like this before my family. However you dont know my wife. She doesn't need an excuse to be pissed off at me. She just needs oxygen. Its just how much Im willing to deal with. Im guessing a good two weeks on this one.



You deserve it (i think), so go for it, unless you cant feed your children, its no really much money, and you ll enjoy it. 

Happy gaming!


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## thoughtdisorder (May 9, 2008)

Since you already have a 2900XT which is a damn fine card, and since I'm a married guy with family and have been there, my suggestion would be resist temptation and go with what you already have. There will be other cards and other deals. (And don't forget her on Mother's day this Sunday!)


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## bigtye (May 13, 2008)

Was in the same position as you with the same cpu as you. I upgraded from a 1950 pro 256mb to a 9600GT 512mb. I did notice a 30% increase in my 3D05 score, went from 9000 to 12000 and my frame rates have improved at 1680x1050, probably due to the memory increase on the gpu as much as anything.

Yes your cpu is a bottleneck. For every 5% I overclock my cpu I get nearly an exact 5% increase in my 3d mark scores. Like you though, an upgrade cpu for me means mb and ram as well. 

I think you may be disappointed by upgrading GPU right now, I was slightly. Spending 200 dollars for an entirely new card, I was hoping for a lot more than just a slight increase in frames. Admittedly I was on the threshold of playability with some games stuttering slightly at my gaming res so the upgrade has smoothed things out completedly. 

An average frame rate of 50fps on COH is a little underwhelming though. Look to save for a complete system upgrade rather than just a GPU now, this I believe is what you really need to see true performance gain for the money spent.

Tye

PS I know this thread is old but I'm curious as to what path you went down.


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## Wile E (May 13, 2008)

I have both cards, the 8800GT 1GB is worth the 2 weeks in the dog house. lol. Oced to 700 core, I get 40+ fps in COD4, everything maxed, 1920x1200, with Fraps running. My 2900 can't do that, and especially if I enable AA.

And the cpu is a bottleneck only at really low res, or in benchmarks. Most modern games are gpu limited, not cpu.


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## bigtye (May 13, 2008)

Wile E said:


> And the cpu is a bottleneck only at really low res, or in benchmarks. Most modern games are gpu limited, not cpu.




I'm not sure I agree with this, because wizards tests with the 9600GT on his Core 2 6550 to get 140 FPS on COH at 1600x1200 and I only get 50 FPS at 1680x1050 with my AMD 4200x2

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GeForce_9600_GT_SSC/6.html

Is this difference not due in a large part to our different CPU's (aside from the minor resolution difference), as we are using the same GPU? Is there some other variable I have not taken into account or do not understand the impact of. 

Would really appreciate your reply because I am saving desperately to upgrade my CPU/mb/ram believing it to be the next step needed to gain more performance in my system, rather than just slotting in another more powerful GPU. I don't believe I'm getting the most out of my 9600GT yet. 

Cheers

Tye


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## Wile E (May 13, 2008)

bigtye said:


> I'm not sure I agree with this, because wizards tests with the 9600GT on his Core 2 6550 to get 140 FPS on COH at 1600x1200 and I only get 50 FPS at 1680x1050 with my AMD 4200x2
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GeForce_9600_GT_SSC/6.html
> 
> ...


You haven't taken into account game settings, or even driver versions.


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## Mussels (May 13, 2008)

Wile E said:


> You haven't taken into account game settings, or even driver versions.



several versions of CoH lock Vsync on. you'd need to make sure that is off, or you wont get anywhere near the same speed.


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