# IB De-Lidding Temps before and after



## SonDa5 (Oct 3, 2012)

DeLid or suffer the heat.  

Delidding is in the air. I can't wait no more. *I'm running a 20 pass LinX stress test right now for my before delid test information. *In a few minutes I'm going to delid my 3570k. *

I wouldn't do this unless I was confident that I can do this and that my 3570k will benefit from it.  

Right now my water cooled rig only has 1x120mm HWLABS Black ICE GTX Stealth radiator.

This is the testing water loop configuration for my first De-lidding test. 







I have another radiator on back order at FrozenCPU and wanted to wait for it but I couldn't wait no more.

Photos from my adventure.

Officially Delidded. *No going back at this point in the game.











Cleaned up and ready to GO!





Contact Paper pressure test is a go!

Here is contact paper pressure test with my DT SNIPER water block on 3570k IHS and then 3570k direct die.

With IHS.  






No IHS direct DIE! 






Before Delidding. 

Ambient Temp 26C

TIM IC Diamond 24

Temps under LinX load *83C 93C 89C 84C*






http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2531026

De-Lidded results.

Direct DIE Contact

Ambient Temps 25.5C

TIM IC Diamond 24

Temps under LinX load **70C 80C 78C 74C*






http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2531139




Delidded IB i5-3570k @ 4.5GHZ 1.15v with NO IHS with DT SNIPER Water block
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2551498

Loop configuration as tested. Single 120mm slim HWLABS Black ICE radiator.







TIM Liquid Pro
IBT 4.5GHZ Maximum memory tested 10 passes
Ambient Temps 25C
Fresh Install






With Liquid Pro average temp of each core is at * 61C!!* under IBT load.  


*Conclusion*: By de-lidding my IB i5-3570k I was able to lower average core temps from *87.25C to 61C!!!!!*

*Since delidding I have been able to lower my average core temps under IBT 100% load at 4.5GHZ by  26.25C per core!!!*


Intel left it to us to effectively cool IB.  This works!!

Share your methods, lessons learned, and temps.


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## Ed_1 (Oct 3, 2012)

what are your load vcore values at that clock/temp ?


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## SonDa5 (Oct 3, 2012)

Ed_1 said:


> what are your load vcore values at that clock/temp ?





It's in the screen shot.  1.176v


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## Sir B. Fannybottom (Oct 3, 2012)

Arg, now I'm going to want to do this to my CPU, and I know I'm gonna mess it up.


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## Ed_1 (Oct 3, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> It's in the screen shot.  1.176v


Oh, ok
they looked so low , so your using fixed value .


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## Sasqui (Oct 3, 2012)

TacoTown said:


> Arg, now I'm going to want to do this to my CPU, and I know I'm gonna mess it up.



From the two I've seen done here, it looks relatively simple.  I suspect the hardest part is getting the HS level on the die.


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## m1dg3t (Oct 3, 2012)

For direct contact the temps seem kinda high, maybe due to ambient? Or maybe others were fudging results?

I've seen same/similar temps posted from simply replacing stock TIM, some even greater!


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## SonDa5 (Oct 3, 2012)

m1dg3t said:


> For direct contact the temps seem kinda high, maybe due to ambient? Or maybe others were fudging results?
> 
> I've seen same/similar temps posted from simply replacing stock TIM, some even greater!




Seems like lowest temps have been accomplished with liquid pro TIM.  All I have is IC Diamond 24.    


Also I'm running a somewhat restrictive loop for single slim 120 mm radiator.


I think the results are great.


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## m1dg3t (Oct 3, 2012)

That rad should still be capable of dissapating 200w of heat, have you tried a remount? Extra mounting pressure?

I'm not saying you "did a bad job", contrary, was just curious is all. Really can't compare anyways because no 2 setups are alike 

Thanks again for the info


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## SonDa5 (Oct 3, 2012)

m1dg3t said:


> That rad should still be capable of dissapating 200w of heat, have you tried a remount? Extra mounting pressure?
> 
> I'm not saying you "did a bad job", contrary, was just curious is all. Really can't compare anyways because no 2 setups are alike
> 
> Thanks again for the info





The rad is capable but with restrictive flow it will get saturated in heat much easier.  The flow is pump to radiator to video card to CPU to reservoir and the back to pump.


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## Nordic (Oct 3, 2012)

subed


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## cadaveca (Oct 3, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> It's in the screen shot.  1.176v



woah. At 1.175 V, my chip hits ~65-70c, under an H100, similar clocks. You have a hot one, yep, but that explains why it's a 3570K, and not a 3770K, like mine is.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 3, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> woah. At 1.175 V, my chip hits ~65-70c, under an H100, similar clocks. You have a hot one, yep, but that explains why it's a 3570K, and not a 3770K, like mine is.





It is unfortunate that it runs so hot with such little voltage.

At least now it can cool off better.


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## cadaveca (Oct 3, 2012)

So, you are direct-die now then?


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## m1dg3t (Oct 3, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> The rad is capable but with restrictive flow it will get saturated in heat much easier.  The flow is pump to radiator to video card to CPU to reservoir and the back to pump.



Ah! This is the problem right here! Trying to cool 300w of heat with a 200w exchanger, pretty good temps considering  Have you tried any other loop orientation or remounting? Just for shits N' gigles if nothing else


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## SonDa5 (Oct 3, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> So, you are direct-die now then?





Yes.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 3, 2012)

m1dg3t said:


> Ah! This is the problem right here! Trying to cool 300w of heat with a 200w exchanger, pretty good temps considering  Have you tried any other loop orientation or recounting? Just for shits N' gigles if nothing else



It's a temporary set up.  Have a new radiator on back order at frozen CPU.


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## OneMoar (Oct 4, 2012)

you are a brave son ofa bitch 
you risk cracking the die of your ~230 dollor proc
you sir deserve a beer ...


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## LDNL (Oct 4, 2012)

Those temps are pretty good considering youre cooling a cpu and a gpu with one slim 120.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 4, 2012)

LDNL said:


> Those temps are pretty good considering youre cooling a cpu and a gpu with one slim 120.





That is what I am thinking.  

I have an Alphacool Cool NexXxus UT 60 420mm radiator on order at FrozenCPU.  As soon as they are in stock it is being sent to me.  

For now my little 120mm radiator is doing ok.
The only reason I am running it like this is because I sold the 360mm radiator that was in the same loop last week.

Did this test a few hours ago.  

20 run LinX with AVX enabled pass in Windows Diagnostic Mode
4.8 GHZ 
TIM IC Diamond







http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2532673


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## Nordic (Oct 4, 2012)

Is that gpu still your 7950, and is it still at 1300mhz?


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## SonDa5 (Oct 5, 2012)

james888 said:


> Is that gpu still your 7950, and is it still at 1300mhz?





I'm still running the same Sapphire HD7950 950mhz edition that I have posted about before in different thread.  

Since my loop is hurting for radiators right now I have under volted the HD7950 and am running at stock speeds of 950mhz.  Other wise the 120mm radiator can't handle the 1300mhz temps and the heat from the over clocked 3570k.


1 little 120mm radiator even with a huge triebwerk 123 fan blowing just isn't enough cooling power to effectively cool an over clocked HD7950 and an over clocked i5-3570k.


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## Nordic (Oct 5, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> I'm still running the same Sapphire HD7950 950mhz edition that I have posted about before in different thread.
> 
> Since my loop is hurting for radiators right now I have under volted the HD7950 and am runnind at stock speeds of 950mhz.  Other wise the 120mm radiator can't handle the 1300mhz temps and the heat from the over clocked 3570k.
> 
> ...



I was beginning to wonder if this some kinda magical radiator if it can handle all that and maintain temps.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 7, 2012)

OneMoar said:


> you are a brave son ofa bitch
> you risk cracking the die of your ~230 dollor proc
> you sir deserve a beer ...




Before I mounted the block I did a contact paper pressure test and contact looked nice and flat  for good mount.  I have rubber washers on the front and back of the mother board of my cpu block mount bolts to add a comfort when tightening and my DT Sniper water block has springs on the set nuts. I just have a nice squeeze on it.  Not too hard and everything feels safe.


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## DOM (Oct 7, 2012)

Did you try it with the ihs on vs with it off ?

Mine delided runs a lot cooler then my  non delided cpu 

So it doesn't help but not for ppl that use ln2


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## t_ski (Oct 7, 2012)

I wish I could do this to my 3930K


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## Nordic (Oct 7, 2012)

t_ski said:


> I wish I could do this to my 3930K



Wouldn't the benefits be marginal. The 3930k doesn't use a paste does it?


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## OneMoar (Oct 7, 2012)

james888 said:


> Wouldn't the benefits be marginal. The 3930k doesn't use a paste does it?



nope its soldered if he trys ti delid it will kill it


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## t_ski (Oct 7, 2012)

Yep, exactly


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## SonDa5 (Oct 8, 2012)

OneMoar said:


> nope its soldered if he trys ti delid it will kill it





I have read the fluxless solder is much better for conducting heat than any TIM that can be bought.  


The only thing that would be better than fluxless solder would be a soft thermal pad of graphene cut perfectly to fit over the die and lay flat on PCB of CPU for a direct mount with a water block.  That would be awesome!!











Somebody make it now!


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## SonDa5 (Oct 8, 2012)

DOM said:


> Did you try it with the ihs on vs with it off ?





No but many IB delidders use the IHS because it is easier to do.  Some mother boards don't have the clearance around the cpu socket to do direct contact mount.


I really think thermal conductivity is better with out the IHS.   

I don't plan on using IHS because my die has great contact with my water block and my IHS has poor contact with my block.  At the start of this thread I posted contact paper pressure test photos that show this.

Will not run with IHS.


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## DOM (Oct 8, 2012)

Yeah I saw the op 

I wanted to try it with out the ihs but knowing my luck ill crack the die 

But since I already know its no good under ln2 I going to test it under the ss 

And yes you need a larger Rad


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## SonDa5 (Oct 9, 2012)

Double. post. sorry.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 9, 2012)

> DeLid or suffer the heat.
> 
> Delidding is in the air. I can't wait no more. *I'm running a 20 pass LinX stress test right now for my before delid test information. *In a few minutes I'm going to delid my 3570k. *
> 
> ...










Updating temp post.

My IC Diamond seems to be cooling better after a few days.

Also I have been able to tweak my voltage a little more than before for stability.

Under load at 4.5 GHZ my 3570k is stable with 1.13v.
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2537884

10 pass in diagnostic mode with maximum memory Intel Burn Test
Ambient Temps  24C.
Temps under IBT *63C 72C 71C 66C
*






*My temps at 4.5 GHZ have now lowered to 68C average per core.*   That is a *19.25C *per core average temperature drop so far since I de-lidded. 

I didn't think IC Diamond had a break in period.  The only things I have done is lower my CPU voltage from 1.17v to 1.15v in BIOS and I have raised my PLL voltage from 1.5v to 1.60v and lastly I hand tightened my cpu mount set screws just a little where they felt lose. I'm being as careful as possible to not crack the die with the block.  (NO IHS)

As I tweak it for lower temps I will update with changes.


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## mediasorcerer (Oct 9, 2012)

Fascinating concept mate, who would have thought aye, what if instead of leaving the metal cap off altogether, you replaced the internal thermal paste with good quality Tim and then put the lid back on?
Or if you got your hands on some flux less solder and soldered a layer inside the lid etc, something like that? Just thinking of alternatives etc, how not to void warranty and or break chip by too much pressure,accident etc, very tempting idea tho, thank for posting, I can't believe my latest chip(ib i5 3570k) is idling at 14-16 c whereas last  sb i5k idled at 25-30 with same cooler etc, I thought ib ran hotter, even oc, whilst gaming it's not hittin much over 40 c. Musta got a good one hopefully.

The Tim definitely takes few days if not weeks to settle I noticed,
Ps that's a big temp drop.


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## mediasorcerer (Oct 9, 2012)

t_ski said:


> I wish I could do this to my 3930K



I wonder if you could heat it up with soldering iron or the like, just enough to melt the solder, without destroying the chip?
Then it may come off? Have to find out the melting point of solder, and compare that to the upper thermal limit of your chip, if the solder is lower, it may be possible .? After all, if it was soldered on in the first place? Just thinking?
Probably done by machine I'd guess, I know lots of components like diodes and  resistors etc are easy to cook if over soldered.

U could maybe use a large tipped solder iron and a thermometer.


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## t_ski (Oct 9, 2012)

mediasorcerer said:


> I wonder if you could heat it up with soldering iron or the like, just enough to melt the solder, without destroying the chip?
> Then it may come off? Have to find out the melting point of solder, and compare that to the upper thermal limit of your chip, if the solder is lower, it may be possible .? After all, if it was soldered on in the first place? Just thinking?
> Probably done by machine I'd guess, I know lots of components like diodes and  resistors etc are easy to cook if over soldered.
> 
> U could maybe use a large tipped solder iron and a thermometer.



No, I've seen a few people that tried to delid their soldered chips and they all destroyed the CPU, either by heat or by not heating enough and breaking the chip.


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## mediasorcerer (Oct 10, 2012)

t_ski said:


> No, I've seen a few people that tried to delid their soldered chips and they all destroyed the CPU, either by heat or by not heating enough and breaking the chip.



That makes sense. Wouldnt be worth the risk.


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## Nordic (Oct 10, 2012)

Would you prefer to have a chip that could be delidded, or a chip that had fluxless solder? I personally would go for the fluxless solder because I don't want to take the risk.


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## mediasorcerer (Oct 10, 2012)

I think the i5 3570 k i have can be delidded, and when i read this post/thread, it became a very tempting idea, but,,,,, it idles really low, doesnt get that hot under load surprisingly, , goes like hell anyways, so, dont think il bother,

But its good to know you can, id be more reciprocal to the idea of taking the lid off, removing the intel thermal glue, and putting some better paste in then put the lid back on?


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## cdawall (Oct 10, 2012)

t_ski said:


> No, I've seen a few people that tried to delid their soldered chips and they all destroyed the CPU, either by heat or by not heating enough and breaking the chip.



Just sand through the IHS. Plenty of people have done it.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 10, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Just sand through the IHS. Plenty of people have done it.





Do you know how effective at heat transfer the fluxless solder used on SB-E is?  Somebody... I forget who or where stated that it worked much better than any TIM available in retail.


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## cdawall (Oct 10, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> Do you know how effective at heat transfer the fluxless solder used on SB-E is?  Somebody... I forget who or where stated that it worked much better than any TIM available in retail.



Don't know don't particularly care. Last chip I had that was delidded was a 6+ghz celeron 352


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## OneMoar (Oct 10, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Don't know don't particularly care. Last chip I had that was delidded was a 6+ghz celeron 352



how thefuck


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## mediasorcerer (Oct 10, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> Do you know how effective at heat transfer the fluxless solder used on SB-E is?  Somebody... I forget who or where stated that it worked much better than any TIM available in retail.



Is it there own proprietary fluxles solder or is it just, fluxles solder, is something id like to know. you used to be able to buy it in sticks.


reminds of a hand iron hehe, youd heat it over your gas stove.

I wonder if this latest chip i have appears to have lower idle temp, because the heat transfer rate from chip to lid is less efficient than my old sandybridge i5? hmmm, does that sound logical?[using same cooler]

 gr8 fotos. whats the black compound holding the lid around the edges?


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## SonDa5 (Oct 11, 2012)

mediasorcerer said:


> I wonder if this latest chip i have appears to have lower idle temp, because the heat transfer rate from chip to lid is less efficient than my old sandybridge i5? hmmm, does that sound logical?[using same cooler]
> 
> gr8 fotos. whats the black compound holding the lid around the edges?




I believe you are 100% correct and logical.  Physics back up your logic as well.

There have been many people delid IB CPUs and replace TIM and improve thermal heat transfer so part of the problem does appear to be ineffective TIM but Idontcare from Anandtech has discovered by experimentation that the gap between the IHS and DIE is the weakest link in the factory Intel IHS design.


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## mediasorcerer (Oct 11, 2012)

That chart is excellent info, big thanx, reason i asked questions about all this is you have given me an idea !!!!, im going to try it when i get the chance, i have a background in metal casting so why the hell not already, really interesting post you made here too, and i loved those close -up fotos, gave me a chance to inspect the chip without having to rip apart mine yet. im gr8ful.

Looking at temp differences on the chart, i can see why you would do it.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 11, 2012)

mediasorcerer said:


> That chart is excellent info, big thanx, reason i asked questions about all this is you have given me an idea !!!!, im going to try it when i get the chance, i have a background in metal casting so why the hell not already, really interesting post you made here too, and i loved those close -up fotos, gave me a chance to inspect the chip without having to rip apart mine yet. im gr8ful.
> 
> Looking at temp differences on the chart, i can see why you would do it.





Idontcare wrote another great bit of information on the dimensions of the IB CPU which I have found helpful in designing some of my own mods for IB cooling.

I think this will help you at as well.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=33789592&postcount=77


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## SonDa5 (Oct 11, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Don't know don't particularly care. Last chip I had that was delidded was a 6+ghz celeron 352



Well if somebody were to plan on de-lidding/removing fluxless solder I think there should be a planned TIM to be used.  Makes no sense to destroy the factory IHS design if an improved method of cooling isn't possible.

Not all CPUs would benefit from de-lidding but IB does because of Intel's poor IHS design.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 11, 2012)

I just got done doing my first 27 hour Prime95 v27, with AVX long FFTs (hot selection).


Ambient temps ranged from low 20C to high 27C.
3570k@4.5GHZ 1.15v.





Hottest temps were recorded during the 15th hour of testing.

*Max Temps recorded

64C 72C 69C 64C*


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## Ed_1 (Oct 11, 2012)

are you using negative offset to get 1.15v or your just using fixed . I see your lower now than original 4.5ghz runs .


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## BlackOmega (Oct 11, 2012)

SonDa5, as you were eluding to, I think, at this point, your TIM is the weakest link. 

 IC Diamond is an awesome TIM (I was part of the test bed for it at OCN before it's initial release and tested it on several rigs). However, it's only good, in my opinion, for CPUs' with non-modified IHS's. 
 I did a few test approximately 2 -3 years ago with some delidded 939's and a lapped AM3 CPU.
 On all the tests I used a lapped Thermaltake big typhoon (lapped to 2000grit then polished out) and here's what I found:

 The smoother and flatter the two surfaces are, the less TIM you need, i.e. lower viscosity (thinner). Thicker TIM's such as IC diamond, AS5, OCZ freeze, Tuniq TX-2, etc. are too thick and actually start working as an insulator rather than a conductor. 
 On both the delidded 939's and the lapped AM3, I found that if I just used the white "pigeon poop" TIM, it actually worked A LOT better than the high dollar TIM's. Reason being is due to it's low viscosity, the thin TIM will spread more evenly and there'll only be enough there to take up what small gaps there are between the two surfaces. 

 I was seriously thinking of just putting a thin coat of motor oil between the lapped AM3 and the BT just to see what the difference would be. 

 On a side note, the thinner TIM's also work A LOT better than the thick silver TIM's on GPUs as well. I swapped out the TIM on several "hot" ATI cards (4870's, 5870's, 6870's) and noticed the cooling was a good deal better than before. 
 Most notably, idle and load temps on the 4870's dropped 13C across the board. All that just from swapping out the TIM.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 11, 2012)

BlackOmega said:


> SonDa5, as you were eluding to, I think, at this point, your TIM is the weakest link.
> 
> IC Diamond is an awesome TIM (I was part of the test bed for it at OCN before it's initial release and tested it on several rigs). However, it's only good, in my opinion, for CPUs' with non-modified IHS's.
> I did a few test approximately 2 -3 years ago with some delidded 939's and a lapped AM3 CPU.
> ...



IC Diamond is working out really well for me but I bought some Liquid Metal Pro to try it out.  With IC Dimoand I have been able to lower average core temps by around 20C per core. 

Ed_1 I am using an MSI Z77 Mpower MB which doesn' have LLC, negative offsetting in the BIOS. For me it is all trial and error.  For the most part the MB sticks well with the voltage selected in BIOS but under extreme load there is a slight voltage drop.  For 1.145vots in the bios it dips under Intle Burn test load to no lower than 1.13v at 4.5GHZ.


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## cdawall (Oct 11, 2012)

OneMoar said:


> how thefuck



?



SonDa5 said:


> Well if somebody were to plan on de-lidding/removing fluxless solder I think there should be a planned TIM to be used.  Makes no sense to destroy the factory IHS design if an improved method of cooling isn't possible.
> 
> Not all CPUs would benefit from de-lidding but IB does because of Intel's poor IHS design.



Most CPU's benefit from delidding. AMD chips do as well and since most have been soldered people have been sanding through them for a while. The trick is to wrap the sandpaper around a small piece of glass to make sure you are sanding nice and level.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 11, 2012)

cdawall said:


> The trick is to wrap the sandpaper around a small piece of glass to make sure you are sanding nice and level.



isnt that reverse lappingand quite dangerous anyway, put the sheet os sand paper on a piece of glass and rub the cpu on it, id advise more of a guide then that tho


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## BlackOmega (Oct 11, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> IC Diamond is working out really well for me but I bought some Liquid Metal Pro to try it out.  With IC Dimoand I have been able to lower average core temps by around 20C per core.




 IC Diamond is great stuff (great for polishing after too). There's definitely a break-in period with it, however it's not nearly as long as some others (AS5 is 200 hours!).

 I was merely suggesting to try the cheapo white TIM, from my testing it has shown to conduct better with smoother flatter surfaces. Couldn't hurt, just give it a try.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 21, 2012)

Delidded IB i5-3570k @ 4.5GHZ 1.15v with NO IHS with DT SNIPER Water block
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2551498

Loop configuration as tested. Single 120mm slim HWLABS Black ICE radiator.








TIM Liquid Pro
IBT 4.5GHZ Maximum memory tested 10 passes
Ambient Temps 25C
Fresh Install






With IC Diamond 24 average temp of each core was *73C*  under IBT load.  With Liquid Pro average temp of each core is at * 61C!!* under IBT load.  

Taking a look at my IB 3570k progress since delidding.

Before Delidding. 

Ambient Temp 26C

TIM IC Diamond 24

Temps under LinX load 83C 93C 89C 84C  average  of  *87.25C* per core.


*Since delidding I have been able to lower my average core temps under IBT 100% load at 4.5GHZ by  26.25C per core!!!*


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 21, 2012)

cpus are a lil tough for me to hold onto actually, i might have a better luck with an orbital sander


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 21, 2012)

james888 said:


> Would you prefer to have a chip that could be delidded, or a chip that had fluxless solder? I personally would go for the fluxless solder because I don't want to take the risk.



that was the idea behind the IHS, reduce core damage


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## Nordic (Oct 21, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> that was the idea behind the IHS, reduce core damage



I know. I still find that to be a illegitimate question for all overclockers. If intel/amd wanted they could sell highend cpu's with a TIM instead of FS all the time.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 21, 2012)

james888 said:


> I know. I still find that to be a illegitimate question for all overclockers. If intel/amd wanted they could sell highend cpu's with a TIM instead of FS all the time.



careful you might give them an idea


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## Peter1986C (Oct 21, 2012)

BlackOmega said:


> SonDa5, as you were eluding to, I think, at this point, your TIM is the weakest link.
> 
> IC Diamond is an awesome TIM (I was part of the test bed for it at OCN before it's initial release and tested it on several rigs). However, it's only good, in my opinion, for CPUs' with non-modified IHS's.
> I did a few test approximately 2 -3 years ago with some delidded 939's and a lapped AM3 CPU.
> ...



So that would mean that in case of not only de-lidded CPUs, but as well on laptop CPUs, GPUs and chipsets; something like Coollink Chillaramic (10 gram for about 6 euro/7dollars) would be _better_ than Thermalright Chill Factor III, Arctic Silver 5, Antec Formula 7, IC Diamond etc.? Good to know.


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## t_ski (Oct 22, 2012)

SonDa5, did you ever consider something like this?

http://www.xoxide.com/specialthermalpad-chipsetcooling.html

It's meant for chipsets, but it was supposed to add a little bit of support and help balance the heatsink so you wouldn't crack the edges.  You might have to trim it up and make the hole a little bigger inside, but I wonder if it would help.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 22, 2012)

t_ski said:


> SonDa5, did you ever consider something like this?
> 
> http://www.xoxide.com/specialthermalpad-chipsetcooling.html
> 
> It's meant for chipsets, but it was supposed to add a little bit of support and help balance the heatsink so you wouldn't crack the edges.  You might have to trim it up and make the hole a little bigger inside, but I wonder if it would help.





I did think of something like that but my idea was to add a 1mm thick thermal pad around the die.  I actually just tried it with the Liquid Pro TIM but it was a little too thick and prevented die from making contact with block.  I tried to thin it down but couldn't manage to get a good mount with it and my CPU would not post.  Got an error 55.  After about 3 on and off mounts with the error 55 I took off the thermal pad and then was able to post but still didn't have a good mount.  Took about 5 or 6 mounts to get a good mount so now I am thinking about leaving it alone.  I would like to try the Thermal Pad again but it didn't work out the first few attempts and mounting bare die is kind of tricky to get the perfect fit.

This is what my DIE looked like with the Liquid Pro and Thermal Pad around it.






This is what I used:  Fujipoly Extreme System Builder Thermal Pad - 60 x 50 x 1.0 - Thermal Conductivity 11.0 W/mK

FrozenCPU sells it.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...rmal_Conductivity_110_WmK.html?tl=g8c487s1294


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## t_ski (Oct 22, 2012)

I saw that mentioned earlier, which is why I posted the link.  This is actually a foam pad, which is going to compress a little as needed.  I honestly don't know what the error you had referred to, but if it's due to lack of contact your pad may have been too thick.


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## DaedalusHelios (Oct 22, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> woah. At 1.175 V, my chip hits ~65-70c, under an H100, similar clocks. You have a hot one, yep, but that explains why it's a 3570K, and not a 3770K, like mine is.



Ambient temp and ventilation in your room makes a big difference too.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 22, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> I did think of something like that but my idea was to add a 1mm thick thermal pad around the die.  I actually just tried it with the Liquid Pro TIM but it was a little too thick and prevented die from making contact with block.  I tried to thin it down but couldn't manage to get a good mount with it and my CPU would not post.  Got an error 55.  After about 3 on and off mounts with the error 55 I took off the thermal pad and then was able to post but still didn't have a good mount.  Took about 5 or 6 mounts to get a good mount so now I am thinking about leaving it alone.  I would like to try the Thermal Pad again but it didn't work out the first few attempts and mounting bare die is kind of tricky to get the perfect fit.
> 
> This is what my DIE looked like with the Liquid Pro and Thermal Pad around it.
> 
> ...



akasa shinetsu


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## SonDa5 (Oct 22, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> akasa shinetsu




The Fujipoly is rated for better thermal heat transfer.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 23, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> The Fujipoly is rated for better thermal heat transfer.



reason I used them is because of the stackable factor of them.

I mean you were griping about the code 55 right, just giving as a solution.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 23, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> reason I used them is because of the stackable factor of them.
> 
> I mean you were griping about the code 55 right, just giving as a solution.





Not really griping just sharing my experience.

The Fujipoly comes in different thickness sizes and could be stacked but I'd rather just use proper single layer size to begin with.

Big thing about my choice for using Fujipoly is the high heat transfer rating and pricing and availability at Frozen.cpu

With the Fujipoly 1mm size in hand I think I could get a bakers roller and roll it down to the thickness that works best.  


Right now I think my temps are great so continuing to experiment with the Thermal Pad layer around the PCB does interest me but it just takes time.  

I will continue to experiment when I get time and share.  I hope I don't screw up my mount performance that I have right now.  

I think this is full specification data on the fujipoly thermal pad I am using.

http://www.fujipoly.com/usa/product...-filler-pads/gap-filler-pads-putty/xr-pe.html


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## SonDa5 (Oct 26, 2012)

Just got done tweaking my delidded 3570k* NO IHS* mount. 

I added Fujipoly Extreme .5 mm in thickness around the die.






DT SNIPER nice and snug.






Added some lock washers to my bolts on the front side of the mother board to keep my DT SNIPER mount bolts nice and firm when I put it back in the case.  Also I am using a EK S115X TRUE back plate which works out great for this mount.







Still haven't booted.  Once I get my loop back together I will see if it boots.  I tried the Fujiploy Extreme last week with 1 mm thickness and the CPU would not post.  So hopefully .5mm thickness on the sides will work out better.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 26, 2012)

hey man keep it up


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## DaedalusHelios (Oct 26, 2012)

That is too dangerous for me to be honest. I have crushed a core before on a northbridge from over tightening and I felt horrible. It wasn't about the money of course. I just hate to break things.


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## SonDa5 (Oct 27, 2012)

DaedalusHelios said:


> That is too dangerous for me to be honest. I have crushed a core before on a northbridge from over tightening and I felt horrible. It wasn't about the money of course. I just hate to break things.




Adding just the right thickness of thermal pad around the die area helps equalize and stabilize the block pressure.  Also with Coollaboratory Liquid Pro high pressure mount isn't needed.  Just soft even pressure.  My block is gently hugging the die.


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## mediasorcerer (Oct 27, 2012)

I admire your innovation, hows it running temps wise after the pads in place etc?


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## SonDa5 (Oct 27, 2012)

mediasorcerer said:


> I admire your innovation, hows it running temps wise after the pads in place etc?




Hahahaha  Thanks.  Others have done similar stuff like this before. I'm finishing my most recent upgrades for my loop right now.  Will be a few more days till i get it all put together.  Waiting on a few parts.


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## SonDa5 (Nov 11, 2012)

mediasorcerer said:


> I admire your innovation, hows it running temps wise after the pads in place etc?






I just completed my loop upgrades along with adding a layer around the die of Fujipoly Extreme .5mm thermal pad for support and to help cool.
I'm very happy with my initial results.
Just a quick and dirty standard run of Intel Burn Test right now.


Ambient Temp 17.6C
i5-3570k@4.5GHZ 1.14V
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2578618








Minumum temps
16C  19C  16C  11C

Maximum temps
43C  47C  46C  40C


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## mediasorcerer (Nov 11, 2012)

Jeez, those are very good temps, damn i'm very tempted, how do you get the bloody lid off then? Got any tips?


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## Vlada011 (Nov 11, 2012)

I will never do that with my 3770k.
50-65C are safe temps for IB. 
That's my temps during games on 4.5GHz.
For now I keep CPU on stock settings. 
I will rather risk to solder EVGA GTX680 4GB Classified for voltage increase and few good fps + and better boost. 
Improvements are better and process is safer that cooler on die.


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## SonDa5 (Nov 11, 2012)

mediasorcerer said:


> Jeez, those are very good temps, damn i'm very tempted, how do you get the bloody lid off then? Got any tips?





OC.NET has a great delidding club with tons of information and the latest tips and tricks.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club


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## SonDa5 (Nov 11, 2012)

Victory at last!!!   

Ambient Temps 18.6C
IBT quick and dirty standard run

5GHZ@1.37v

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2578924






Idle Temps

21C   24C  21C  18C


Maximum Temps

62C  70C  67C  62C


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## Vlada011 (Nov 11, 2012)

WOW almost 3 times more GFlops than overclocked AMD FX8350.
Intel No 1. surfing, gaming, encoding CPU. In all sections we are winners.
That is real gaming CPU, nothing else.


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## SonDa5 (Nov 11, 2012)

Quick and dirty 5GHZ 3dMarkl11 run with single HD7950 over P1100! 


http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4909584


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## Pehla (Nov 11, 2012)

if i ever get my hands on some money i will experiment with this stuf!!
but even then it would be with some older hardware..maybe some phenom!! witch would then be great to overclock!! ....that's just me thinking outloud,hehe
but what u did is wery brave thing bro...nice job and great temps!!


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## SonDa5 (Nov 11, 2012)

Pehla said:


> if i ever get my hands on some money i will experiment with this stuf!!
> but even then it would be with some older hardware..maybe some phenom!! witch would then be great to overclock!! ....that's just me thinking outloud,hehe
> but what u did is wery brave thing bro...nice job and great temps!!




Ivy Bridge seems to be made for delidding.


Not sure how other cpus will react but with IB delidding is like magic.


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## Vlada011 (Nov 12, 2012)

I will not experiment with that, but I will experiment with soldering Kepler probably. 
That will give me pure performance visible in applications what I need.
200MHz more not help me to much. Special because 100MHz more is not good number for me and 5.0GHz is questionable for 24/7 long use.
4.9GHz are not acceptable for me, than 4.5GHz looks good to me, I can get that and 4.8 without de-lidding. Bet if someone don't care for numbers, need 4.8-5.0GHz and have bad overclocker he can try if money is not problem. I would rather pay more over stock GTX680 than one more 3770k if this die.
I'm more angry because locked voltage on excellent GPU overclocker than to get 5.0GHz instead of 4.8GHz.


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## SonDa5 (Nov 12, 2012)

Vlada011 said:


> 5.0GHz is questionable for 24/7 long use.




I think Delidding is more of an overclocker technique to maximizing temperature. Intel warranty is only 3 years I think.  

I'm happy with 24/7 5GHZ stable with max temps well under 60C for any gaming or normal applications I run and barely reaches low 70C on 2 cores with Intel burn Test or Prime95.


1.4v 5GHZ 24/7 seems safe to me for long use as long as my temps are nice and cool.


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## Jhelms (Nov 12, 2012)

I feel so old... back in the day our CPU's did not have lids. AND WE LIKED IT


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## eidairaman1 (Nov 13, 2012)

Garage1217 said:


> I feel so old... back in the day our CPU's did not have lids. AND WE LIKED IT



These are for noobs


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## The Von Matrices (Nov 13, 2012)

I'm confused about this.  Doesn't the processor need to be forced into the socket with hundreds of pounds of force in order for all the pins to make contact?  Since you're not using the standard locking mechanism, how do you apply that much force to the processor die without it cracking?  When processors were built without IHS, they had ZIF sockets that didn't require a constant downward pressure to maintain electrical contact, but since you need that pressure with a LGA processor, how do you apply it?

I remember the first time I put closed the socket retaining ring on my G620 system and heard a crunch.  I thought I had cracked something, but it was only the force applied on the processor compressing the pins, and that was with the standard IHS.  I can't imagine that much force applied on the die going well, and even if the die wasn't cracked immediately, wouldn't some other things happen over time?  For example, the pressure being applied only in the center of the substrate might cause the outer pins to make less secure contact with the pads causing electrical issues, or the large pressure only in the center of the substrate might cause the substrate to warp into a concave shape over time?  Someone please enlighten me.


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## Vlada011 (Nov 13, 2012)

First of all you need to have CPU mood for 5GHz. 
That is not only because of temps. If you have CPU capable for 4.7-4.8GHz you risk for 15C less temps but 15C higher temps are 100% safe 
and can't influence bad on other hardware.
I think I can hit 5.0GHz with some 1.400-1.425V with 20C less temps.


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## Nordic (Nov 13, 2012)

Vlada011 said:


> First of all you need to have CPU mood for 5GHz.
> That is not only because of temps. If you have CPU capable for 4.7-4.8GHz you risk for 15C less temps but 15C higher temps are 100% safe
> and can't influence bad on other hardware.
> I think I can hit 5.0GHz with some 1.400-1.425V with 20C less temps.



Proove it. I daare yooou


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## Vlada011 (Nov 13, 2012)

Nooo Noo I wait Haswell and new EVGA FTW 1150, I can sell this combo for good price, because I have proof for me everything work excellent. I play more games on EVGA Z77 FTW for 5 months than on CH4F for 1.5 years and I love this board more than any but I want and next generation i7. 4.8GHz is excellent for i7-3770k + HT Enable Prime95 90% RAM whole circle. I notice one thing LinX, Intel BT make CPU hotter but for Prime95 need little more voltages for same clock. 0.025V+
I live in poor country I need to give up from many things to buy platform for i7 and FTW board and Classified Graphic. 
For people in my country that is like X79 Classified + 3960X for people in EU and USA.
Because of that I can't risk.


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## SonDa5 (Nov 14, 2012)

The Von Matrices said:


> I'm confused about this.  Doesn't the processor need to be forced into the socket with hundreds of pounds of force in order for all the pins to make contact?  Since you're not using the standard locking mechanism, how do you apply that much force to the processor die without it cracking?  When processors were built without IHS, they had ZIF sockets that didn't require a constant downward pressure to maintain electrical contact, but since you need that pressure with a LGA processor, how do you apply it?
> 
> I remember the first time I put closed the socket retaining ring on my G620 system and heard a crunch.  I thought I had cracked something, but it was only the force applied on the processor compressing the pins, and that was with the standard IHS.  I can't imagine that much force applied on the die going well, and even if the die wasn't cracked immediately, wouldn't some other things happen over time?  For example, the pressure being applied only in the center of the substrate might cause the outer pins to make less secure contact with the pads causing electrical issues, or the large pressure only in the center of the substrate might cause the substrate to warp into a concave shape over time?  Someone please enlighten me.



Alot of time and planning went into applying my delidded cooling mods.


I did contact paper pressure tests with the DT Sniper with the IHS on and with the ISH off against the bare die.

With the IHS on with DT Sniper block







With the IHS off against bare die of 3570k with DT Sniper water block








Doing the contact paper pressure test allowed me to see how my block was making contact.  By knowing this I knew how to best orientate block and what parts of the block made good contact.  This also gave me the idea of adding high quality Fujipoly Extreme thermal pad around die for support and to help cooling.






No IHS. Direct contact between die and DT Sniper water block.

Mounted






using a EK TRUE 115X back plate for stability.






With CL Liquid Pro TIM and bare die against block not alot mount pressure is needed.  Just a few turns on the bolts for the water block mount and it is good to go.  

Well planned out delidding with proper mount on bare die leads to great results.


Ambient Temps 18.6C
IBT quick and dirty standard run

5GHZ@1.37v

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2578924


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## SonDa5 (Nov 14, 2012)

Looks like my delidding experiments have lowered my average temps per core bv 31.25C

http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club/3040#post_18599015


That is a huge decrease in temperature IMO.


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## Nordic (Nov 14, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> Looks like my delidding experiments have lowered my average temps per core bv 31.25C
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club/3040#post_18599015
> 
> ...



I think the proper term is "EPIC decrease in temperature"


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## SonDa5 (Nov 26, 2012)

Got a new 3770k.  It's my first one.
Batch 3226C840 I7-3770k

Final testing before delidding.

3770k@4.5GHZ vCore 1.15v
4.5GHZ
Water cooled with UT-60 420mm RAD and DT Sniper water block.
TIM IC Diamond
Not Delidded
Ambient Temps 21C
http://valid.canardpc.com/2595435


HT on






Package Min 26c   Max 66C


HT off






Package Min 23C  Max 66C


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## Nordic (Nov 26, 2012)

Now that you got 5ghz on 4 cores, you want 5ghz on 4 cores + HT? Or are you hoping to get past 5ghz? 

What are you going to do with your 3570k? That thing is like cherry picked.


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## SonDa5 (Nov 27, 2012)

james888 said:


> Now that you got 5ghz on 4 cores, you want 5ghz on 4 cores + HT? Or are you hoping to get past 5ghz?
> 
> What are you going to do with your 3570k? That thing is like cherry picked.



I just want to tweak the 3770k and give it some love.

Going to sell the 3570k since I can't justify having a cpu that I am not using.


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## SonDa5 (Nov 27, 2012)

The deed is done. My first 3770k delid.  This one was much tougher than my 3570k. Lid was tight. Worked 2 different razers to get the lid off. 
















Bare Die Mount no IHS.


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## Nordic (Nov 27, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> http://minidriven.com/BlacknBlueforIB/DeLiD/3770k/Bare3770kdiedirectblockmountsmall.jpg



Looks like some thermalright heatsink on your ram. I think we, maybe just I, would like to see a full pic of your rig. Since you got so many nifty little things you know...


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## boogerlad (Nov 27, 2012)

How did you remove the cpu retention bracket on the motherboard?


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## DOM (Nov 27, 2012)

LOL I was going to say what's the lowest volt it can run super pi 32m @ 5Ghz before popping off the ihs but nvm XD 





boogerlad said:


> How did you remove the cpu retention bracket on the motherboard?



Just remove the screws that hold it down there's 3


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## boogerlad (Nov 27, 2012)

Ah excellent. I remember old lag775 were much more difficult to remove. Thanks!


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## SonDa5 (Nov 27, 2012)

james888 said:


> Looks like some thermalright heatsink on your ram. I think we, maybe just I, would like to see a full pic of your rig. Since you got so many nifty little things you know...



Xigmatek Dragoon HDT N422 heat sinks on the ram.


I will post some photos of it all when it is done.  A few things left to put together to complete it.


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## SonDa5 (Nov 27, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> Getting ready to take the razer to my first new 3770k.
> 
> Final testing before delidding..
> 
> ...




After delidding.
Ambient Temps 22C


Hyperthreading On







Hyperthreading Off


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## DOM (Nov 28, 2012)

5ghz ?


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## SonDa5 (Nov 28, 2012)

DOM said:


> 5ghz ?



Working on stable 5.2GHZ for 3dMark11 right now.


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## Nordic (Nov 28, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> Working on stable 5.2GHZ for 3dMark11 right now.



OH GOD  Give me a second to whipe the drool from my mouth...

I am never going to get even close to your 3dmark 11 score. I may be able to beat your gpu score but I won't come close to your cpu score. You probably overclocked your ram also with those cooler. You sir have a dream system.


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## SonDa5 (Nov 29, 2012)

DOM said:


> LOL I was going to say what's the lowest volt it can run super pi 32m @ 5Ghz before popping off the ihs but nvm XD




Before I delidded my final test of worthiness was clearing 32m at 5GHZ and it did it with 1.42v with the following settings.

http://valid.canardpc.com/2595380

Not super golden but this cpu delidded is good enough for stable 24/7 5GHZ operation with decent temps.
With some liquid Nitrogen it could probably open up quite a bit more.


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## Nordic (Nov 29, 2012)

SonDa5 said:


> 5GHZ and it did it with 1.42v with the following settings.
> With some liquid Nitrogen it could probably open up quite a bit more.


Gosh... My 2500k can only do 4.5ghz with those volts. Is there any liquid nitrogen overclocking results we will see from you...?


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## SonDa5 (Nov 29, 2012)

james888 said:


> Gosh... My 2500k can only do 4.5ghz with those volts. Is there any liquid nitrogen overclocking results we will see from you...?



No plans on it.  For now just water cooling with the delidding experiments.

At 5GHZ with 2666mhz RAM I have to increase CPU voltage to 1.48v for stability.


http://valid.canardpc.com/2598297


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## DOM (Nov 29, 2012)

You still using the TIM IC Diamond?


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## SonDa5 (Nov 29, 2012)

DOM said:


> You still using the TIM IC Diamond?



CL Liquid Pro.


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## DOM (Nov 30, 2012)

So where you able to get 5.2 to bench ?

I wanna try that stuff.... But to lazy to order some lol 

How much does it to for ?


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## johnspack (Nov 30, 2012)

I want to comment,  but I can't.  Something to do with sb-e.


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## DOM (Nov 30, 2012)

johnspack said:


> I want to comment,  but I can't.  Something to do with sb-e.



Then GTFO


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## SonDa5 (Nov 30, 2012)

DOM said:


> So where you able to get 5.2 to bench ?
> 
> I wanna try that stuff.... But to lazy to order some lol
> 
> How much does it to for ?



http://www.frozencpu.com/products/3784/thr-26/Coollaboratory_Liquid_PRO_Thermal_Interface_Material.html
13.99 and a little goes a long ways.  Got distracted on 5.2 bench marks.  Going to disable ht to ee if easier to overclock.


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## SonDa5 (Nov 30, 2012)

johnspack said:


> I want to comment,  but I can't.  Something to do with sb-e.




Spit it out.


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## erixx (Dec 7, 2012)

Bravo thread! You got to produce some parts we can use (spacers, paddiing, etc) and open a factory : )


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## SonDa5 (Dec 9, 2012)

erixx said:


> Bravo thread! You got to produce some parts we can use (spacers, paddiing, etc) and open a factory : )





I doubt it would be profitable.  Plenty of shops sell stuff that can be used.


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