# New On-Demand Gaming Platform Threatens to Kill Gaming PC Upgrades



## btarunr (Mar 25, 2009)

We all regard PC games, as an entertainment medium, but spend hundreds to even thousands of Dollars regularly, to keep our PCs up to date, to be able to play the latest PC games. Imagine a medium that rids us of that, and we are able to consume PC gaming like any other content, like the TV or radio. Well, that the potential a new on-demand gaming platform holds - to make you never have to buy/upgrade a gaming PC again. 

Called OnLive, the on-demand platform consists of a web service, an internet connection, and a thin-client, called "micro-console" that connects your input (game controllers), and output (monitor/TV/HDTV). You control the game - whichever you're subscribed to and playing - the client relays your input to the OnLive servers, that do the processing, including graphics rendering, and send back output to your client. The client then displays the output. Sounds familiar? Cloud computing? Exactly, but for PC gaming. The platform is conceptualized to be advanced-enough to handle any of today's games, Crysis included. The work-model of this platform is what makes it tick with any game, and is far more future-proof than the present mode of PC gaming (where people own expensive hardware that are in requirement of upgrades, the costs of buying games, buying gaming services separate). 

For standard definition television quality, a broadband connection of at least 1.5 megabits per second is required. For HDTV resolution, a connection of at least 5 mbps is needed. The service uses patented algorithms that work to counter lag caused by network constraints. The technology is already gaining attention from major publishers, including EA, THQ, Codemasters, Ubisoft, Atari, Warner Bros., Take-Two, and Epic. People can buy or rent a game to play it, the usage fees are expected not to be much more than the subscription fees for Xbox Live. 



 

 



*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## selway89 (Mar 25, 2009)

Sounds amazing! Id like to see this in action. But I like my fancy hardware


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## DrPepper (Mar 25, 2009)

So its a console really.


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## btarunr (Mar 25, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> So its a console really.



...that costs less than a Wii, and runs Crysis Warhead at HD resolutions, getting you rid of having to upgrade hardware to get the latest gaming experience - something even consoles can't achieve.


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## fenurch (Mar 25, 2009)

The idea is amazing and if it would work, that would be epic, replace Xbox's, PS3 e.t.c.

But it's not 100% that it will work and that's what worries me.


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## DrPepper (Mar 25, 2009)

btarunr said:


> ...that costs less than a Wii, and runs Crysis Warhead at HD resolutions, getting you rid of having to upgrade hardware to get the latest gaming experience - something even consoles can't achieve.



What can I spend my hard earned money on then


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## farlex85 (Mar 25, 2009)

Sounds awesome. No more bitching about games that stress the computer and more importantly no more having to buy a $300 gpu every 6 months if you want to play super pretty games.


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## MRCL (Mar 25, 2009)

Sooo... and what do the game stores sell then?


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## rampage (Mar 25, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> So its a console really.




yes, but a whole new take on it, i still would rather my pc, whats the point in overclocking / water cooling one of these 

as for threatening the gaming pc, i can see it as a real contender in the low/ medium end of the market


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## btarunr (Mar 25, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> What can I spend my hard earned money on then



Saving up for your castle. I hear they have good ones in your part of the world.


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## farlex85 (Mar 25, 2009)

rampage said:


> yes, but a whole new take on it, i still would rather my pc, whats the point in overclocking / water cooling one of these



For benchmarking of course. Typically games don't need either (overclocking or water cooling).


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## DrPepper (Mar 25, 2009)

I just realised that fah will take a major hit

and rofl bta.

I hear there is a good deal on edinburgh caste


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

5mbps for HD. Thats what 1280x720?

I would imagine most people around the world wont have a connection of 5mbps stable all day, I know I dont, I get about 7mbps, but not at peak times. I'd be lucky to get SD in the evenings.

I can't imagine a server having the processing power for modern games and pump it out to every one, only costing around £40 a year.

I'm not convinced, this could slow progression of the gaming world too. I like my gaming PC and being able to play at high res.

What about user mods? What about sitting there knowing your hard earned cash and build time has gone into the awe that is being generated in realtime in front of you.
It wont be the same.


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## farlex85 (Mar 25, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> 5mbps for HD. Thats what 1280x720?
> 
> I would imagine most people around the world wont have a connection of 5mbps stable all day, I know I dont, I get about 7mbps, but not at peak times. I'd be lucky to get SD in the evenings.
> 
> ...



This of course would not be practical right now, but I could definitely see it working in the near future. Think what we had 10 years ago. This should be feasible in a few. Networks will get faster, comps will get faster, ect, ect. It's not too hard to imagine.


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

farlex85 said:


> This of course would not be practical right now, but I could definitely see it working in the near future. Think what we had 10 years ago. This should be feasible in a few.



But in a few years, games will have advanced even further.

I would say it would be about 5 - 10 years before enough people had fast enough connections all day for it to be feasable. By which time that bandwidth wont be enough for the games of the time.

Catch my drift?


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## farlex85 (Mar 25, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> But in a few years, games will have advanced even further.
> 
> I would say it would be about 5 - 10 years before enough people had fast enough connections all day for it to be feasable. By which time that bandwidth wont be enough for the games of the time.
> 
> Catch my drift?



Depends on how the scaling goes, you're assuming linear progression of games and networking. Don't they have gigabit connections in Korea? How far have we come since Crysis? Catch my drift? 

It's possible this would just end up focusing on casual gamers though, a la the wii. I would like it for sure.


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## Atnevon (Mar 25, 2009)

This will be like the Dreamcast. A piece of hardware with so many new additions, it will be just to ahead of its time and die out. Then 10 years later, something else will come along that will be a near clone, and win everyone over.


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

I dont know what it is, maybe call it a hunch or bad vibe, I just can't see this working.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 25, 2009)

sorry this is not something i would put my money in to, because not everyone has 5Mbps Connections, let alone 1.5 for SD, and consoles still dont have the Advancements PCs have had for years, PC gaming has been HD since 2002 TBH. Also only reason PS2 won on the Console wars was because it was being bought as a Cheap DVD player mainly, not really used for games at all, that plan backfired for the PS3. Whats funny is the Casual Gamers Bit, Hello, you have M Rated games for the Console, No More Heroes, Madworld, CODW@W, TBR The Conduit, No More Heroes 2.


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## Binge (Mar 25, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> I dont know what it is, maybe call it a hunch or bad vibe, I just can't see this working.



+1 I call BS.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 25, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> I dont know what it is, maybe call it a hunch or bad vibe, I just can't see this working.



Me either, it kind of reminds me of Sega Channel.  The concept was great, but in the end it died out.


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## KainXS (Mar 25, 2009)

phantom all over again


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## konj (Mar 25, 2009)

This is just ridiculous idea. I would rather they try to sell me teleport technology than this cause it's easier to swallow. And the most ridiculous thing is they couldn't sell cloud computing to corporations for office work, where it actually makes sens, now they are trying to sell it to gamers? I think they take us for retards.

Just think about computing power requirements? Come on even your ISP has "fair usage" in your contract.  And the least problem for this to work is your internet connection. This idea is such BS i can't think about it anymore without my head hurting!


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## pjladyfox (Mar 25, 2009)

btarunr said:


> ...that costs less than a Wii, and runs Crysis Warhead at HD resolutions, getting you rid of having to upgrade hardware to get the latest gaming experience - something even consoles can't achieve.



I'm not so sold on the concept even after seeing their tech demo. Just right off the top of my head I see the following problems:

1. How much data is going to be passed back and forth between the client and server? Remeber, companies like Comcast are already looking at bandwith caps for internet service that something like this could easily trigger if you're talking about a game like Crysis Warhead.

2. What if say a million users all hammer the servers at once trying to play a particular title? Can we still be assured a decent experience?

3. What about those customers that have an average latency of about 20ms due to the distance from the MPOE for their DSL connections will the system still allow for a zero-latency experience even under these conditions?

And this is not even going into the overall cost of trying to maintain something like this. Granted, if they can solve the bandwith and hardware costs this would be something that would get more into PC gaming but I just do not see how something like this could ever replace a dedicated system no matter how they try to pitch it.


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## El Fiendo (Mar 25, 2009)

I'd max out my monthly upload and download caps real quick. And all the online gaming would suffer from alot more 'BS LAG' whiners.


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## Selene (Mar 25, 2009)

Cant wait to see it live, and as much as I like building my PCs and buying upgrades, I would get one in a second if it works like they say.
I mean I could get one for me and my kids, this would save me lots of cash each year.


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## mdm-adph (Mar 25, 2009)

There's a word for this:  Vaporware.  Either that or it's just a dream.

Like others here have said, maybe one day this might be possible, but at present rates of internet speed around the world, this is impossible.  

Not to mention how big of a problem bandwidth caps are.  That'd kill something like this, quick.


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## btarunr (Mar 25, 2009)

This platform won't have its demerits for many gamers in the developed world. There are many  gamers who just know how to start a computer, install and play a game. Similarly, all those wanting to get rid of upgrade costs get the benefit of not upgrading virtually forever. 



mdm-adph said:


> There's a word for this:  Vaporware.  Either that or it's just a dream.



Kokatu is going to review this platform later this week.



DrPepper said:


> I hear there is a good deal on Edinburgh caste



Yeah, it has a mail in rebate of 500k GBP, for just this week. Buy it and send your completed rebate form to the Royal family. Take them your sword if that is rejected.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 25, 2009)

i dont see it working due to fact of networks can be unreliable at times no matter how redundant they are.


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## Assimilator (Mar 25, 2009)

I have a 384Kbps broadband connection and a 3GB data cap, and the fastest broadband in my country is 4Mbps. So, not an option.

Besides, a lousy 1280x720 resolution is the max they can offer? Even a 19" LCD has a higher native res than that, and I run most of my games at 1920x1200, so this concept seems spectacularly pointless.


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## farlex85 (Mar 25, 2009)

I'm not sure why so many people who dabble in computers are so spectacularly unable to even consider that future advances in networking may, just may, be more advanced then what we have access to now. 5 years ago would you have believed me if I told you you could stream HD movies from netflix directly onto you're 1080p television (newer models of TV have this, and blu-ray players as well)? Apparantly not.


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## AKlass (Mar 25, 2009)

isn't amd already trying this?


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## BigBruser13 (Mar 25, 2009)

*But Upgrading and pushing performance is half the fun*

I like upgrading my PC and trying to push the performance, it is at least half the fun of gaming with a PC. This console Idea takes all the fun out competitive PC mods and performance enhancements. Oh and don't forget all the industries and businesses that depend on our dollars for upgrading, tweaking, and enhancing our systems.


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## cdawall (Mar 25, 2009)

so if we moved to this and ran HD this would require 5MB/s now what happens when everyone puts a cap on bandwidth? 250GB would max out pretty fast running HD back and forth across a LAN. and doesn't 1080P video peak out a 100MB/s network just streaming video?


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## MilkyWay (Mar 25, 2009)

how can a server supply all that and then pump it through the internet?

it wont work, to many people and its all the same someone has to have the hardware be it client or server

this is fail at least that phantom service was a good idea, heck i could just own a htcp and dl games from steam and direct to drive


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## BigBruser13 (Mar 25, 2009)

Wow I guess they forgot to think about that. Now the whole thing will fall apart. Come on I'm sure they have it all worked out, and if not yet they will.


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## shiny_red_cobra (Mar 25, 2009)

This is gonna kill the internet, there's no way it will be able to keep up with so much traffic. 5 Mbps connection for HDTV-quality...multiply that by millions of these "consoles" and we'll be bringing the internet down to it's knees.


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## MilkyWay (Mar 25, 2009)

yeah the traffic would be killer!

people would need a good internet service

i like owning a system and games, i like being able to choose everything plus this is client server on a unimaginable scale


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## csendesmark (Mar 25, 2009)

OMG they invented the terminal... (again  )


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 25, 2009)

I have this feeling in my stomach. Kinda like.........







I really enjoy PC gaming. If this come out Ill be lost.




shiny_red_cobra said:


> This is gonna kill the internet, there's no way it will be able to keep up with so much traffic. 5 Mbps connection for HDTV-quality...multiply that by millions of these "consoles" and we'll be bringing the internet down to it's knees.



Will it bring the girl in your avy to her knees?


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## pentastar111 (Mar 25, 2009)

BigBruser13 said:


> I like upgrading my PC and trying to push the performance, it is at least half the fun of gaming with a PC. This console Idea takes all the fun out competitive PC mods and performance enhancements. Oh and don't forget all the industries and businesses that depend on our dollars for upgrading, tweaking, and enhancing our systems.


+1!!! EXCACTLY! You hit the nail right on the head!.. This is why I don't do the "console" thing anymore. The "gaming" pc, to me, IS very much like messing around with a suped up car. BUT without the knuckle-busting or the grease and grime, or expense!. I still mess with my 67 Fury. I love that car, but she is far more expensive a "hobby" than any of my pc's. This idea willl be fine for those who don't like to go into their rigs. Not for guys like you, me and more than half of TPU though, I'll stick with building my own thank you.


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## phanbuey (Mar 25, 2009)

Atnevon said:


> This will be like the Dreamcast. A piece of hardware with so many new additions, it will be just to ahead of its time and die out. Then 10 years later, something else will come along that will be a near clone, and win everyone over.




 absolutley... like the company that tried VoIP over 56K, or Brook, the first GPGPU language...

this is a great idea, but might not work... then again it might, which would be awesome.  Still... sad to see the PC gaming go.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 25, 2009)

I wonder if it will fold?


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## pentastar111 (Mar 25, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> absolutley... like the company that tried VoIP over 56K, or Brook, the first GPGPU language...
> 
> this is a great idea, but might not work... then again it might, which would be awesome.  Still... sad to see the PC gaming go.


I think this would be geared more towards "mainstream" gamers. I can't see this appealing to the diehard pc gamer. If this idea is such that it will be an "addition" to the pc gaming comunity, then great. If they can make it work. As far as being a "replacement" for our rigs? Phfft! No way.


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## AsRock (Mar 25, 2009)

Sounds cool, But wouldn't your ISP screw you for over usage ?.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 25, 2009)

AsRock said:


> Sounds cool, But wouldn't your ISP screw you for over usage ?.



That may be the idea. I would love to see whos backing this financially. I doubt AMD, Intel and every other major player in the PC world likes this idea. But then again the game industry now has more power than Hollywood. Thanks to pirates this little gizmo may be then end of PC gaming as we know it.

This makes me sad. All joking aside. I'm really depressed to read this.


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## DaMulta (Mar 25, 2009)

So let me get this

They have a supercomputer

I dial into it with what ever download rate I have.

They do all the rendering, and I play my game?


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## Silverel (Mar 25, 2009)

I see bunches of things in this.

For one, the tech works just fine. Incoming signal would be the equivalent of a live HD video, we can find these all the time. Outgoing signal would be the incredibly basic and tiny inputs from your controller to the host. Not much else.

This was done with a PS3 over wireless to transmit Crysis, it worked perfectly there with a 54mbps connection.

Also, this would likely be done with a server farm of highly optimized GPU clusters. You dial in for a game, the server fires up, and all it needs to do is send the image signal after it processes and renders everything.

This is a console killer, no doubt. No need to use em aside from glorified BD players, and sad excuses for a PC with DLC.

Speaking of DLC, that is what will keep the PC alive when this is released. Nothing can compare to the freedom and moddability of a PC, not to mention, they'll be around due to the business sector anyways. On top of that, developers will be releasing their games to load into a server farm, and will be easily portable to PC (comparatively being a single server, no big deal).

I'd imagine they'll have issues with laggy input response, but at the millisecond level. Possibly the occasional server crash interrupting your game, (unless they have a kick-ass failover system like the ones i build). Then there's the lack of doing anything resembling personalization, unless they give you a vHDD to store things on that it can access when you load a game. Even so, you get save games, but I wouldn't imagine they would allow you to DL a 500mb add-on to your Fallout 3, STALKER, CoD, etc etc etc.

No worries for PC gaming. This might actually help it out as it will get devs back to coding x86, instead of consoles.


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## Bl4ck (Mar 25, 2009)

it will fail . 




just like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_(game_system)


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## phanbuey (Mar 25, 2009)

DaMulta said:


> So let me get this
> 
> They have a supercomputer
> 
> ...



yep... 

And there is some algorirthm to get rid of "lag"... somehow I dont think that it will get rid of lag for, say, CSS players who can tell a major difference between their mouse at 8ms delay and 2 ms delay.

If its cheap I will buy one just to try it... then I would try to take it apart and overclock it ... 1mbps faster at 1.4V WHOOO!


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 25, 2009)

Silverel said:


> I see bunches of things in this.
> 
> For one, the tech works just fine. Incoming signal would be the equivalent of a live HD video, we can find these all the time. Outgoing signal would be the incredibly basic and tiny inputs from your controller to the host. Not much else.
> 
> ...


You are assuming developers want to port the games to a pirate ridden platform. I for one would welcome this as a developer. Nothing hardware specific and 100% revenue. Man if this works its the nail in the coffin for PC gaming and console. I just wish I would have invested in this company before hand


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## pentastar111 (Mar 25, 2009)

DaMulta said:


> So let me get this
> 
> They have a supercomputer
> 
> ...


Souds lik a great idea. On paper. But the experience would then depend on the reliabilty of their network and their machines and your connection. Those variables, in my opinion  anyway, can add up to an experience that has the potential of destroying all fun in a 500 mile radius. If I want to play a single player game I have to download it? And if their system is down I don't play? No thanks!


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## vampire622003 (Mar 25, 2009)

This is exactly why I don't play consoles. Building a PC just to play games for me isn't what it's all about, it's a way of life for me and will be my career (IT). Yes, it's still PC games, but you can't get the satisfaction of building your own PC and playing a game on it knowing that -You built this machine, you CAN play this game, because of the hard work and dollars you put in it, and the fact that you put it together yourself. The sentimental values of hard work.- You can't get that kind of satisfaction from console or a all-ready built gaming PC. It's all about the mentality for me on this one.

I mean how did the PC industry become so famous?
Yea, maybe manufacturers won't let you upgrade because of hardware limitations, incompatibility, ect.
But, back in the day people would work for no money, no benefits, just to see what could be done with these machines. It was amazing and such a great time when expansion cards were on the rise, and now some people don't even want to work on their PC's anymore, the just want the satisfaction of using a mouse and keyboard to play a game without spending alot. I mean who doesn't, but that's when I come back to the mentality. YOU CAN'T GET THE -I built this. It works. I can play this game. I have the knowledge to put it together.- SATISFACTION. 


I'm sorry, but it pisses me off.

This has to be one of the story's that has caught the most of my attention.


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## DaMulta (Mar 25, 2009)

Let me just say this.

I have played like this before at AMOCO(aka now BP Oil)

On a terminal station with a SGI Supercomputer running game demos on a 10/100 network way way way back in the 90s.  

You know what? It worked just fine.

All they would be sending back is a video, and the few commands of what's next.

Netfilx, hulu and others have proved to us that video can come down on the net just fine. The only difference is that there will be no buffers. It has to be live. Now the US on this will suck because we have the worst net there is. YET you can do some bad ass stuff on just 480p or 480i transmissions. To say you can not is a lie, pop in any PIXAR movie on a old TV will prove just that to you.

I want to see a live demo on what demos they already have running.


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## Silverel (Mar 25, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You are assuming developers want to port the games to a pirate ridden platform. I for one would welcome this as a developer. Nothing hardware specific and 100% revenue. Man if this works its the nail in the coffin for PC gaming and console. I just wish I would have invested in this company before hand



Hell yes they would. It's not like pirates are stealing physical goods that cost them inventory. Piracy is unavoidable, and they know that, but they still release PC games. 

As long as there is a market to sell to, companies will make money. Short of all PC gamers shutting off their boxes and closing their wallets, the market will continue.


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## Lumpy (Mar 25, 2009)

This is pure BS.
Their just trying to sell this "technology" to some poor sucker.
by the time the worlds (internet)  ready in 10 to 15 years it may work but will be a small niche for people with crapy pcs
The day that a pc is just a monitor with total dependancy on the internet for all its content, o/s,software, etc will come,and that  is very scary.


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Mar 25, 2009)

vaporware


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## tkpenalty (Mar 25, 2009)

Since the software needs to process your key inputs (Algorithms) then send it to the server which again needs to process it again or rather, decompress it, there will be a considerable latency. This is further worsened by the downstream which moreover posessses this. 

Okay true, for those who can barely afford anything, this is great. Its not a bad idea at all in fact. Only issue is that if theres less people buying PCs then this plan goes out of the window as hardware costs and the squeezed demand in the IT sector will force prices up as the drops in price have been demand driven. 

But at the moment, considering how most people have huge connection issues, this concept isnt desirable. 

However I do see one HUGE advantage; multiplayer.


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## technicks (Mar 25, 2009)

Well like said by more people. I will stick with my PC and enjoy the fun modding and oc'ing it.
Can't a man have his hobby's? 
If it was purely about the gaming i would not even use it.
I spend more time modding and oc'ing then gaming on my pc


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## vampire622003 (Mar 25, 2009)

technicks said:


> Well like said by more people. I will stick with my PC and enjoy the fun modding and oc'ing it.
> Can't a man have his hobby's?
> If it was purely about the gaming i would not even use it.
> I spend more time modding and oc'ing then gaming on my pc


Exactly what I said, in a more basic manner.
People back then just wanted to see what you could do with them.
It just wasn't about ONE thing, like games.

And if it was just another console, I wouldn't care, but it isn't, it's aimed at PC gamers/users.


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## tkpenalty (Mar 25, 2009)

technicks said:


> Well like said by more people. I will stick with my PC and enjoy the fun modding and oc'ing it.
> Can't a man have his hobby's?
> If it was purely about the gaming i would not even use it.
> I spend more time modding and oc'ing then gaming on my pc



That only applies to a minority of people and realise that not everyone is as wealthy. They aren't forcing this down your throat. 

True, you do things other than game for your PC.

But for those who view the PC and Consoles as gaming platforms? Would they spend a large sum of money? or something chepa like this? Obviously the latter.

Though this concept really is ahead of its time as we'd need a world where everyone doesn't suffer from connection issues.


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## vampire622003 (Mar 25, 2009)

They should supply the connection also for a monthly charge, if the user doesn't have a good one or not one at all. Based on how much they play also.


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## PCpraiser100 (Mar 25, 2009)

Bl4ck said:


> it will fail .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank goodness that that happened! This is stupid. This means that if the hardware is too slow to take future titles of Crytek I would have to buy another console to stay up to date. This is more of a Mac! Besides, even if it will still run like a chap, Microsoft could be against it.


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## vampire622003 (Mar 25, 2009)

I bet you their computer still won't be able to play Crysis on max settings, lol!


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## DrPepper (Mar 25, 2009)

PCpraiser100 said:


> Besides, even if it will still run like a chap, Microsoft could be against it.



Not if it said in bigass words MICROSOFT MOFO.

I still think this wont be as successful as expectations. It will probably work but imagine 1 million people playing crysis simultaneously, each at 60 fps thats unthinkable.


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## Silverel (Mar 25, 2009)

vampire622003 said:


> I bet you their computer still won't be able to play Crysis on max settings, lol!



nope, it'd be limited to HD resolution at best.


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## ShadowFold (Mar 25, 2009)

1920x1080 + 8x AA or GTFO. I don't think this will make it far. I sure as hell wont be buying one.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 25, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> Not if it said in bigass words MICROSOFT MOFO.
> 
> I still think this wont be as successful as expectations. It will probably work but imagine 1 million people playing crysis simultaneously, each at 60 fps thats unthinkable.



Put an Apple logo on a pile of dog shit and it will sell. Anyway lets see what the review says. BTA you on this?


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## Polarman (Mar 25, 2009)

I don't like this idea.

1. My internet connection limits me to 20 gig of download per month. This thing would gobble this amount in no time at all. Now try to imagine how much you would pay after you bust your limit.

2. I like my PC and enjoy doing all kinds of things on it like typing stuff on TPU.

3. When i play a game, i don't need some bigass company knowing about it.


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## CDdude55 (Mar 25, 2009)

Bandwidth was one of the issues, but no one asked them about how offline would work. All the games will be running off there server and saved on there servers and accessed by your Onlive account. So going offline would create a problem if you wanted to game on it.

If it takes off it could end alot of fighting between fanboys in terms of the console wars. But i doubt Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo will let them take that huge of a bite out of the market, so they might show some interesting stuff at this years E3 to keep them on there side.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 25, 2009)

On-Demand Gaming Platform = Gaming Socialism.


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## DrPepper (Mar 25, 2009)

I hope a company buys them over then scraps them so I can keep my rig


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> I hope a company buys them over then scraps them so I can keep my rig



I'm sure MS could.


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## DrPepper (Mar 25, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> I'm sure MS could.



I'm sure most can because I doubt the business would be worth that much yet.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 25, 2009)

We could be looking at the next Xbox.





DrPepper said:


> I'm sure most can because I doubt the business would be worth that much yet.


 This is exactly the kind of thing I like to invest in.


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## DrPepper (Mar 25, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> We could be looking at the next Xbox. This is exactly the kind of thing I like to invest in.



I wish I could invest but I'm just a kid


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> I wish I could invest but I'm just a kid



17 is hardly a kid.


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## Imsochobo (Mar 25, 2009)

Latency, bandwidth anyone ?


its really Cloud computing, i dont belive in that yet.
Infrastructure isnt there, and not in USA, we in norway got pretty good covered fiber connection to most of the population, with offers of 250 mbit.


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## DrPepper (Mar 25, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> 17 is hardly a kid.



I don't want to grow up though


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 25, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> 17 is hardly a kid.



This is true. a 100 bucks can make you a 1000 in less than 24 hours. I've done that and more. If I knew what I know now at 17 I would be retired.


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> I don't want to grow up though



Who does.

My dad acts more childish than I do some days. 

Anyway back on topic.

I still cant see this working, say we get to the point that everyone has the internet fast enough to do this, even if we could stream a HD feed of a high enough res and combat the lag, we will prob have 3d in mainstream by then or some other tech that will render this useless.


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## Steevo (Mar 25, 2009)

latentcy would kill this.

Then again if the physics, and the majority of the GPU work was done elsewhere, downscaled, and then sent out ot this, upscaled, AA and AF and finish the graphics it might.


But wiat, it has to phone home, so it my be moraz spying!!!!


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

Spying! Didnt think of that. Damn now they will know if you back the camera into the corner and walk lara croft towards it! 

Mmmm, pretty pixels.


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## DrPepper (Mar 25, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> This is true. a 100 bucks can make you a 1000 in less than 24 hours. I've done that and more. If I knew what I know now at 17 I would be retired.



Tell me your secrets man of the mail 



Steevo said:


> latentcy would kill this.
> 
> Then again if the physics, and the majority of the GPU work was done elsewhere, downscaled, and then sent out ot this, upscaled, AA and AF and finish the graphics it might.



Well think about this press w on a keyboard and the server is in america so at best assuming that the ping is as low as possible it will need to compress send arrive decompress register it compress send recieve and decompress limited by the speed of light.


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

Like I said previously though, some of the great things about latest gen consoles and having a great gaming PC, is sitting there in awe at the detail that is being rendered in real time by that little box down by your feet.

This will be not much more than an interactive film.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 25, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> Tell me your secrets man of the mail


 PM me if you really want to know. I don't want to highjack the thread.


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## Marineborn (Mar 25, 2009)

i cant wait to start playing games and have it pause to say (BUFFERING) in the top left corner! hahahahaha...i think this is a good idea but will idealy fail


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## v12dock (Mar 25, 2009)

It works in theory it works but then put internet latency into play, along with server load


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## aCid888* (Mar 25, 2009)

I'd sooner cut my left nut sack off then give up my PC or gaming on it....I cant see this concept working for many reasons and the PC will remain dominant in the gaming world for some time to come, I'm sure of that.


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## Silverel (Mar 25, 2009)

Maybe it monitors your ping rate, and adjusts the gameplay to compensate for it, ever think of that?

Say for instance, your ping is around 55ms (typical for me), and the signal compress/decompress takes 30ms (no farkin clue), the delay from input to output could be adjusted 85ms, and you'd be just fine. Provided both the itty bitty box, and the server itself monitor ping rates, it should be able to adjust on the fly and give near-perfect results. Considering the amount of load that would put on a processor (minimal, very minimal), it could be done.


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

I dont get how you could possibly make up for lag, it cant predict where you're going to go


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## Silverel (Mar 25, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> I dont get how you could possibly make up for lag, it cant predict where you're going to go



sorry. i killed my brain. it was thinkin' in quantum again. folding spacetime and whatnot.


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## pjladyfox (Mar 25, 2009)

farlex85 said:


> I'm not sure why so many people who dabble in computers are so spectacularly unable to even consider that future advances in networking may, just may, be more advanced then what we have access to now. 5 years ago would you have believed me if I told you you could stream HD movies from netflix directly onto you're 1080p television (newer models of TV have this, and blu-ray players as well)? Apparantly not.



Really, it's not so much the idea of there being more advanced networking tech out there. Heck, they may even actually be able to make this work under a heavy service load without issues and deliver it at a low cost.

However, that said network providers are not going to take too kindly to people eating up their bandwith. There are some parts of the U.S., Canada, and even the European contries that have a hard-set data/bandwith cap on their connections. And I have a hard time swallowing the idea that these people are going to be able to provide the extreme amount of bandwith they would require to host a service across a userbase large enough to make it financially viable.

Before I'll drink their punch I want them to share the numbers and prove that the end-user will not have to deal with the ire of their ISP for playing one too many rounds of Crysis each month. Until then this just sounds like a better organized version of the Phantom that is doomed to follow other start-up companies who have tried and inevitably failed.


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## pjladyfox (Mar 25, 2009)

shiny_red_cobra said:


> This is gonna kill the internet, there's no way it will be able to keep up with so much traffic. 5 Mbps connection for HDTV-quality...multiply that by millions of these "consoles" and we'll be bringing the internet down to it's knees.



That was what instantly came to mind when I saw this.

I just can not see how they can make something like this work, knowing the limitations on bandwith and speed that some areas have, while competing with other consoles, streaming video, and other services that use the internet as well. And that's not even taking into account the kind of back-end they'll need to be able to host this since I seriously doubt they can host something like this on just a few T-3 lines.

But, hey, if they succeed more people will get into PC gaming which is a good thing. But, sooner or later they will get tired of this fisher-price approach and will get a dedicated system especially when they see a stand-alone system can be purchased for a slightly larger investment and will be able to do more.


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## DrPepper (Mar 25, 2009)

I think this thing would be better as an add on card within a pc. That way we get to keep our rigs and get the benefit of this thing.


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## farlex85 (Mar 25, 2009)

pjladyfox said:


> Really, it's not so much the idea of there being more advanced networking tech out there. Heck, they may even actually be able to make this work under a heavy service load without issues and deliver it at a low cost.
> 
> However, that said network providers are not going to take too kindly to people eating up their bandwith. There are some parts of the U.S., Canada, and even the European contries that have a hard-set data/bandwith cap on their connections. And I have a hard time swallowing the idea that these people are going to be able to provide the extreme amount of bandwith they would require to host a service across a userbase large enough to make it financially viable.
> 
> Before I'll drink their punch I want them to share the numbers and prove that the end-user will not have to deal with the ire of their ISP for playing one too many rounds of Crysis each month. Until then this just sounds like a better organized version of the Phantom that is doomed to follow other start-up companies who have tried and inevitably failed.



For sure. Again, this would most certainly not be feasible in today's environment. That's a given. With the rapidity the industry changes though, it's not hard to believe in the possibility that things will work differently in the not too distant future. Bandwith capping seems like it will have to be eliminated, if not at least raised, that much seems certain. Everything is coming over the internet, your cap now will not be your cap in 5 years, that you can be sure of. 

This is certainly in the realm of feasibility soon, and it's really not even that much of a stretch from what we have now.


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## Exceededgoku (Mar 25, 2009)

No lies my dad had this proposal of a very similar product back in 2005 and the consensus he received was that the internet was not capable of that kind of load and would not be for at least another 10 years so I'd be interested to see how far this goes!


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## MilkyWay (Mar 25, 2009)

phantom dl'd the game/software and then ran it but this is live real time streaming
i sometimes have trouble streaming youtube! FFS:shadedshu

there is nothing in that box its just like a network device with an output

they are getting desperate they want to get rid of piracy thats all i can see from it


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

MilkyWay said:


> phantom dl'd the game/software and then ran it but this is live real time streaming
> i sometimes have trouble streaming youtube! FFS:shadedshu
> 
> there is nothing in that box its just like a network device with an output
> ...



There will always be piracy

You'll prob be able to mod the box or something.

Much like all channels are sent via cable and satelitte and your subscription just determines which ones will be decrypted.


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## MilkyWay (Mar 25, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> I think this thing would be better as an add on card within a pc. That way we get to keep our rigs and get the benefit of this thing.



thats would be pointless they would only need to release the software because all it is an network device with an output to a tv, everything a pc already has!

i prefer distribution systems like steam to this idea


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## OnBoard (Mar 25, 2009)

Silverel said:


> Maybe it monitors your ping rate, and adjusts the gameplay to compensate for it, ever think of that?
> 
> Say for instance, your ping is around 55ms (typical for me), and the signal compress/decompress takes 30ms (no farkin clue), the delay from input to output could be adjusted 85ms, and you'd be just fine. Provided both the itty bitty box, and the server itself monitor ping rates, it should be able to adjust on the fly and give near-perfect results. Considering the amount of load that would put on a processor (minimal, very minimal), it could be done.



Well they claim this:
_What about lag, you say? OnLive's technology "incubator" Rearden Studios claims that its servers will deliver video feeds that have a ping of less than one millisecond. Its patented video compression technique is also advertised as blazing fast, with video compression taking about one millisecond to process._

and this:
_Expected to be deployed by launch will be five server centers hosting the latest and greatest games—OnLive isn't aiming to be GameTap, with no immediate plans to host archival PC games. Server clusters will be located in Santa Clara, Texas, Virginia and elsewhere, hoping to offer OnLive subscribers within 1,000 miles a seemingly lag-free experience._

If in some miracle it would work it would still be USA only and only for those around the server farms. One of these OnLive miracle farms could theoretically serve whole Scandinavia if they'd stick it to like Umeå - Sweden.

Highly skeptical about this, like you all. Firstly all the servers would need to be located in McMurdo - Antarctica, to keep the thousands of servers cool running Crysis 24/7 for thousands of people. Down side would be that only people in the 1000miles range would be the scientist, but at least they'd keep warm


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

Its not the server ping that would be the problem, its the connection to the server.

Imagine the lag if you're on wireless in the other end of the building to the router, which is connected to an ADSL modem, miles away from the local exchange.

It'd be a nightmare!


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## MilkyWay (Mar 25, 2009)

all they are doing in theory is sending a video to your tv and you are sending the controls back through the internet

in theory this could work client side but at server end theyd need a lot of hardware and the network would get bogged down


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## imperialreign (Mar 25, 2009)

meh . . .

I'd much rather keep my PC - at least I can tweak, adjust, modify my games.  Sometimes, being able to modify a game, and play using other user's mods, makes the game _really_ feel like it was worth the $50+


as to the bandwidth caps . . . oh, yeah!  We only have two hi-speed providers here, and I can tell you that Cox Communications already caps user's speed, on top of having to deal with their ridiculous latency.

I think this kind of tech can win over the console communities . . . but I doubt it'd really make a dent in the PC gaming communities.


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

Thats like what I said earlier, its just an interactive film.

I like amazing graphics cus I'm watching them be generated in real time, but stuff I have spent my hard earned money on.


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## Bull Dog (Mar 25, 2009)

Ping, latency or whatever you want to call it, is going to make this a complete no-go.

On a good day this *might* work for slow games (like some RPGs and MMO games)


The internet is going to have to take a giant leap forward first.


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## OnBoard (Mar 25, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> I think this thing would be better as an add on card within a pc. That way we get to keep our rigs and get the benefit of this thing.



If it had PS3 games, I could try a card like that to get a Gran Turismo 5 fix  It's the consoles you can't upgrade, nor play old games with.


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

Bull Dog said:


> Ping, latency or whatever you want to call it, is going to make this a complete no-go.
> 
> On a good day this *might* work for slow games (like some RPGs and MMO games)
> 
> ...



That reminds me, when I used to play EVE, the lag on that was unbearable at times. And all that had to communicate was the commands!


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## blkhogan (Mar 25, 2009)

I love tinkering with my PC way to much to switch to something like this. Its an expensive hobby to have, but its one of the few I truly enjoy.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 25, 2009)

Here is a hands on "review". Yall are welcome 



> The goal was to free up users from the bane of hardware requirements, providing a hassle-free option for PC gamers. The service will carry a subscription cost, and members will have the option of renting or purchasing the available games. Nearly every major publisher has signed on, with one notable exception being Activison Blizzard.
> 
> It sounds like one giant leap forward for PC gaming on paper, but many were skeptical of the technology following the announcement, thinking that the inevitable lag would result in an inferior gaming experience. After getting my hands on the thing, I can report that OnLive mostly works as advertised--but a few flaws may hold it back from being a home run.
> 
> ...





















Source


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## ascstinger (Mar 25, 2009)

so instead of paying tons of cash for my rig (and making something unique), now you can buy one of these boxes and pay all that cash for a good enough ISP instead


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 25, 2009)

In Soviet interwebz, games play you.


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## alexp999 (Mar 25, 2009)

> I immediately noticed the unwelcome signs of blocky compression...the experience was marred by the considerable amount of splotchy pixels...unquestionably inferior to playing from a disc



= FAIL


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## CDdude55 (Mar 25, 2009)

ascstinger said:


> so instead of paying tons of cash for my rig (and making something unique), now you can buy one of these boxes and pay all that cash for a good enough ISP instead



You only need one of those boxes for the TV(Microconsole), it comes with only an HDMI port on it but they said you may use a converter for SDTV's. If your using your OnLive account on a PC you don't need that box, its instead a plugin.


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## L|NK|N (Mar 25, 2009)

Great idea and alternative for the softcore pc gamer who does not want to mess with upgrades. I sense a lot of negativity in this thread towards this idea. Actually it could help the PC Gaming market. It may pull in more game developers. I really doubt, for the immediate future, that it would "kill gaming pc upgrades". It may however light a fire under the arses of the two major graphics card makers to get more innovative with their products and release schedules.


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## Marineborn (Mar 25, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> In Soviet interwebz, games play you.



LOL!!! love it, to quote....a cartoon...in soviet russia..car drives you..anyhow

i see major problems, dsl it no gonna be able to push this, alot of people are not gonna wanna play for that 1.5mb line, im pretty sure one of there precausiongs if you start to lag is that the visual quality of the game decreases kinda like streaming netflix to your computer or tv from your 360, all this crap i would rather have my leet computer and play my game and be able to mod it and have all the fun.


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## Random Murderer (Mar 25, 2009)

unfortunately, in order to have smooth gameplay, most people will need to significantly upgrade their internet bandwidth, and since that is a recurring monthly cost, you'd probably just be better off spending the money on a beefy computer/parts.


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## CDdude55 (Mar 25, 2009)

Looks like the Analysts loved it.:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6206742.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;4


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## ShadowFold (Mar 26, 2009)

"The Beginning of the End."
God dammit this sucks.


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## L|NK|N (Mar 26, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> "The Beginning of the End."
> God dammit this sucks.



Why are you so worried? As long as upgrades are being bought as well as the conventional means of game purchases, why would they bail out on that pot of gold?


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## Random Murderer (Mar 26, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> "The Beginning of the End."
> God dammit this sucks.



fortunately, this will probably be the end of consoles and not pc.
pc gaming cannot be replaced. consoles have been the biggest threat to pc gaming, and look at how many people do both or are pc-only.
honestly, i see this as just another console. the hardcore gamer will stick with pc, while the people who have a console that want to play pc-only games but don't want to sink $1000 or more in a top of the line system will settle for one of these.


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## ShadowFold (Mar 26, 2009)

LiNKiN said:


> Why are you so worried? As long as upgrades are being bought as well as the conventional means of game purchases, why would they bail out on that?



Because the reason I like PC games over console games is the graphical and framerate quality. I can't stand anything under 50fps.. I doubt this thing could push out 1920x1080 8x AA and still pump out 50-60fps solid like my rig can 

And if you think no one is going to jump on it.. Just wait until all the console people start seeing that they can play Crysis.....


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## L|NK|N (Mar 26, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> Because the reason I like PC games over console games is the graphical and framerate quality. I can't stand anything under 50fps.. I doubt this thing could push out 1920x1080 8x AA and still pump out 50-60fps solid like my rig can
> 
> And if you think no one is going to jump on it.. Just wait until all the console people start seeing that they can play Crysis.....



You missed my point completely. As long as you and I keep buying our upgrades and there is a market for pc gaming, it wont go away.


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## farlex85 (Mar 26, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> Because the reason I like PC games over console games is the graphical and framerate quality. I can't stand anything under 50fps.. I doubt this thing could push out 1920x1080 8x AA and still pump out 50-60fps solid like my rig can
> 
> And if you think no one is going to jump on it.. Just wait until all the console people start seeing that they can play Crysis.....



As long as people are willing to pay for something, it will continue to sell. This will not completely replace what we have now (if it succeeds at all) until it can indeed provide an equivalent visual experience to gaming rigs, b/c if it doesn't, there will still be a demand for gaming rigs, thus they will still be sold. When network constraints allow perhaps it could do even better than your rig could, and much cheaper.


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## ShadowFold (Mar 26, 2009)

I guess you guys are right, I just don't like the idea at all. It's just getting me worried..


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## L|NK|N (Mar 26, 2009)

Look at it this way, maybe it will take off and maybe it won't. Change is inevitable. I will be happy when my childhood dream of my own personal Holodeck Gaming System is released.


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## farlex85 (Mar 26, 2009)

Yeah I mean change is a good thing, it should be embraced. More options about how to game can't be a bad thing, and this definitely shows some exciting potential. Perhaps it will drive down market prices of gpu's as well to keep competition alive.


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## Castiel (Mar 26, 2009)

Signed up for the BETA today. This is really awesome. Will be buying this when it comes out.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Mar 26, 2009)

Cool idea, but will not kill PC gaming by a longshot!


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 26, 2009)

i really like this idea, but like every enthusiast here, i will never give up my hardware!


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## Mussels (Mar 26, 2009)

my housemate was ranting about this yesterday.

The way this works, is that its got a little ID box and nothing more locally. The 3D rendering is done remotely, online. You move your mouse left, the signal goes up to these guys, they render it moved left, it comes back down.

While this may not worry some people, the average ping for people in Au is 60ms at best - so even throwing out the high bandwidth usage (and low download limits), controller lag is going to be nasty.


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 26, 2009)

Mussels said:


> my housemate was ranting about this yesterday.
> 
> The way this works, is that its got a little ID box and nothing more locally. The 3D rendering is done remotely, online. You move your mouse left, the signal goes up to these guys, they render it moved left, it comes back down.
> 
> While this may not worry some people, the average ping for people in Au is 60ms at best - so even throwing out the high bandwidth usage (and low download limits), controller lag is going to be nasty.



yea i imagine it being a lot like the psp remote play feature with the ps3. even on a LAN there is still controller lag.


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## Mussels (Mar 26, 2009)

farlex85 said:


> I'm not sure why so many people who dabble in computers are so spectacularly unable to even consider that future advances in networking may, just may, be more advanced then what we have access to now. 5 years ago would you have believed me if I told you you could stream HD movies from netflix directly onto you're 1080p television (newer models of TV have this, and blu-ray players as well)? Apparantly not.



i spent 2 years doing networking, and my housemates done 4 years. Trust me, they cant fix this stuff.

Speed can go up, download limits can go up - but they cant fix ping. ping is related to the distance, and they cant do squat about that!

The only way this system will work is if you have a low ping ISP (local datacenter) and these guys datacenter just as close. Otherwise the mouse lag will be nuts.


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## Conti027 (Mar 26, 2009)

kool idea but seems flawed in so many ways but if it was true id buy it


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## Mussels (Mar 26, 2009)

pentastar111 said:


> Souds lik a great idea. On paper. But the experience would then depend on the reliabilty of their network and their machines and your connection. Those variables, in my opinion  anyway, can add up to an experience that has the potential of destroying all fun in a 500 mile radius. If I want to play a single player game I have to download it? And if their system is down I don't play? No thanks!



you're not reading it at all.

You dont download shit. This is all STREAMED.


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## CDdude55 (Mar 26, 2009)

Didn't see on the front, but it comes out Winter '09 and there will be a BETA in Summer '09 that you can sign up for on the site(onlive.com).


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## farlex85 (Mar 26, 2009)

Mussels said:


> i spent 2 years doing networking, and my housemates done 4 years. Trust me, they cant fix this stuff.
> 
> Speed can go up, download limits can go up - but they cant fix ping. ping is related to the distance, and they cant do squat about that!
> 
> The only way this system will work is if you have a low ping ISP (local datacenter) and these guys datacenter just as close. Otherwise the mouse lag will be nuts.



Ping can be a side effect of distance, but more efficient and faster transfer tech would help reduce packet loss and transfer speeds, thus reducing ping.


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## PCpraiser100 (Mar 26, 2009)

I wonder if this can take programs like F@H, cause that will be when I will buy it JUST FOR FOLDING.


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## MuhammedAbdo (Mar 26, 2009)

Well , here is a first hand experience :

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1090

The author played through some chapters in BioShock , the menu was responsive , but the gameplay suffered from noticeable lags during fast mouse turns , and above all the picture quality was terrible ,well not that terrible , but not what he expected , he said that the signs of compression really marred the experience .

Besides , What's wrong with upgrading your PC every now and then ? a careful planner could only spend 800$ on an average PC that lasts for 3 Years (one with a decent C2D and an HD 4850 or 9800GTX+ for example , spending more will extend this period even further !


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## Mussels (Mar 26, 2009)

MuhammedAbdo said:


> Well , here is a first hand experience :
> 
> http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1090
> 
> ...



I thank you for signing up to share that, but you got beaten to the punch - that article was linked to a few posts up .


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## Basard (Mar 26, 2009)

when something sounds too good to be true, then it usually is... how does this little box "magically" play crysis? and how will it play future games?

i could somewhat see this working, for turn based games.... BUT, for games like crysis they would basically need a computer to run the game AND send you the "results" of your imput.....  maybe i should read more from the source link...


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## Mussels (Mar 26, 2009)

Basard said:


> when something sounds too good to be true, then it usually is... how does this little box "magically" play crysis? and how will it play future games?
> 
> i could somewhat see this working, for turn based games.... BUT, for games like crysis they would basically need a computer to run the game AND send you the "results" of your imput.....  maybe i should read more from the source link...



the games are rendered on a server, and then streamed to you.

Its like playing a game via remote desktop.


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## Millenia (Mar 26, 2009)

Doesn't really sound all too appealing to me - I really enjoy being able to run my games at high resolutions with no lag and most of all, being able to customize them. If something like this would become the new standard, we'd miss out on many, many great mods.


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## Basard (Mar 26, 2009)

Mussels said:


> the games are rendered on a server, and then streamed to you.
> 
> Its like playing a game via remote desktop.



yeah.... exactly... it seems kind of ludicrous... maybe in like 10 years when computers take over the world... but not now.... i dont think technology is fast enough for it to be playable ( unless you're playing solitair)


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## Mussels (Mar 26, 2009)

The only way this would work is if your own ISP had one of these servers in every datacenter. That would get the latency down to minimal levels.

I can see this being a great tech for LAN use - one server in the house running virtual machines, connected to four of these "mini" consoles for people to use, or for an internet cafe/LAN hall.

The tech sure has potential, its just got some serious flaws in implementation.


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## pr0n Inspector (Mar 26, 2009)

compressed video/audio is compressed video/audio. the compession ratio have to be real shitty if they want to encode/decode it fast. this is just pure bs.


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## DonInKansas (Mar 26, 2009)

MuhammedAbdo said:


> Besides , What's wrong with upgrading your PC every now and then ? a careful planner could only spend 800$ on an average PC that lasts for 3 Years (one with a decent C2D and an HD 4850 or 9800GTX+ for example , spending more will extend this period even further !



800 bucks isn't something everyone has laying around.  This is awesome for those who don't have the time or resources to keep up with the "latest and greatest."  If it works, it'll befinitely have a niche to fill, and it's not really ours.


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## Kursah (Mar 26, 2009)

I think it'll be the way consoles of the future goes, but not PC gaming...I think PC gaming is here to stay for quite a while, sure things might change, but the PC industry is very strong right now, and has a pretty strong outlook into the future.

There's something about building, overclocking, tuning and running a custom-built PC that consoles don't provide and won't, sure this idea is great for the plug-and-play which is nice at times and part of why I keep my consoles, there are just times I just want to game and not tweak with anything at all, but streaming over current interenet probably won't work out too well. I could see this becoming popular in the future though, but I think it'd take out or become the next Xbox/Playstation/Nindendo whatever instead before it hurt PC gaming seriously...just my opinion though.


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## Weer (Mar 26, 2009)

I'd like to see how they can run my resolution of 4960x1600 without lag, through an internet connection, for that estimated price. I think I'll stick with my GTX 295, for as long as this is still what it is - a pipe dream.

And besides! I personally consider building the computer and setting the settings to be at the very least half the enjoyment factor of playing a high-end video game. Not to mention that with this console, all you can do is game. The world has never looked any better with my monitors, and the power to run them even while writing this post, using up about a tenth of the desktop space.

EDIT: Post 666 !


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## Wile E (Mar 26, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> Me either, it kind of reminds me of Sega Channel.  The concept was great, but in the end it died out.



I was just about to bring that up. Also remionded me of the hack to be able to play any Sega Channel game after it was gone by recording the loading screen with a vcr, then just playing it back thru the unit.



farlex85 said:


> I'm not sure why so many people who dabble in computers are so spectacularly unable to even consider that future advances in networking may, just may, be more advanced then what we have access to now. 5 years ago would you have believed me if I told you you could stream HD movies from netflix directly onto you're 1080p television (newer models of TV have this, and blu-ray players as well)? Apparantly not.



Yes, because 5 years ago, my internet connection was actually FASTER than it is now. I was with @home, and they didn't cap you to a certain speed like today's ISPs. I pulled a consistent 10Mb back then during peak hours. Comcast, the current owner of the same network, now only offers up to 8Mb in my area, and that's much more expensive, and doesn't come close to happening during peak hours. The common connection has actually gone _backwards_ in my area.


----------



## Nyte (Mar 26, 2009)

AMD is working in close connection with OnLive.  That's about all I can say.


----------



## Melvis (Mar 26, 2009)

Its a good idea, for the game industry, and for those who have a computer that cant run the games in high detail, but its just a better way to make more money, pay to play, wont see many games to buy in the shop to play at home if this is the future? 

I think its cheaper to have a good computer then it is to buy lots of games, it is over here anyway. A good computer will cost you about $1000 to run all games good enough, but if you play lots of games, there around $100+ each, after awhile that adds up.

This is going to be like World Of Warcraft but without the install.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Mar 26, 2009)

pffttt

600 USD dude


----------



## Melvis (Mar 26, 2009)

eidairaman1 said:


> pffttt
> 
> 600 USD dude



$700 USD


----------



## Nick89 (Mar 26, 2009)

alexp999 said:


> 5mbps for HD. Thats what 1280x720?
> 
> I would imagine most people around the world wont have a connection of 5mbps stable all day, I know I dont, I get about 7mbps, but not at peak times. I'd be lucky to get SD in the evenings.
> 
> ...



Exactly the way I feel.


----------



## HammerON (Mar 26, 2009)

This would take all of the fun of updating my system twice a year to keep up with the CPU and GPU advancements 
I like spending money on new hardware to gain several fps in the games I like to pay


----------



## wazzledoozle (Mar 26, 2009)

This is bullshit. The people behind this should be prosecuted for fraud.

Unless they have perfected subspace quantum entanglement-based networking, there is NO WAY AROUND NETWORK LATENCY!

Between the time you input an action, it traveling across copper and fiber for tens or hundreds of miles THEN BACK, you will notice a significant input delay. 



If the technology behind this were real, it would have far more useful applications than streaming games to a glorified video decoder box.


----------



## DrPepper (Mar 26, 2009)

wazzledoozle said:


> This is bullshit. The people behind this should be prosecuted for fraud.
> 
> Unless they have perfected subspace quantum entanglement-based networking, there is NO WAY AROUND NETWORK LATENCY!
> 
> ...



I agree


----------



## MTnumb (Mar 26, 2009)

well..i can see this working great with a netbook or any other low-end pc. but to me this is FAIL! here a 5mbps connection costs about 35$ a month +5$ account fee. that 40$ a month
40x12months=480$ a year + 50$ OnLive account fee. that 530$ a year. you can upgrade a computer with 530$ can you? im sure you can. i dont see any massive savings. also..i really love upgrading my pc, getting that nice box that has tons of logos on it and the big graphics card inside the box / cpu / motherboard. its great also the quality is better no compressed pixels no "low latency" lag. and if you think about it you would be killing so many companies with this. no to mention that like this games will hardly ever become better looking because you [well not you. but OnLive] would have to upgrade a server farm just to be able to run a new game that comes out. i really love my pc and i can't see myself buying one of these. if this idea caught up i can see alot of pc stores and com[uter labs closing down and with the world economy like it is i think more unemployment isn't something you would like to happen.


----------



## Binge (Mar 26, 2009)

This sort of crap is funny.  How can people in the industry give OnLive praise?  In the article it shows that they all received and idea of OnLive in an optimal setting.  They aren't accounting for all the variables including assholes who will inevitably pummel their servers with attacks.  It's like if I were a customer paying for this I'd be paying for something that may not work as optimal as these reviewers experienced, and on top of it I'd be paying for a GIANT bulls-eye for hackers.  I didn't read anything about multiplayer, but have they begun to address that issue yet?


----------



## Johnytxtc (Mar 26, 2009)

I poo on this idea


----------



## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Mar 26, 2009)

tkpenalty said:


> That only applies to a minority of people and realise that not everyone is as wealthy. They aren't forcing this down your throat.
> 
> True, you do things other than game for your PC.
> 
> ...


Hey, if these people can afford a fast internet connection and a hefty sum per month, I doubt if they don't have a budget for a decent gaming rig..


----------



## mdm-adph (Mar 26, 2009)

Actually, I take back what I said earlier, because I wasn't thinking this through correctly.

This has *nothing* to do with making things easier for the consumer (eliminating the need to upgrade, configure, etc.).

This has *everything* to do with "rights" (you're never downloading, purchasing physical media, etc.) -- it gives the producers of content _ultimate_ control over their products.  

It's a way to eliminate piracy, in my opinion.  

They don't care if your lag is going to be shitty -- they don't care if the picture quality is small and crappy.

They will be able to get game makers and content producers to produce for their platform (perhaps solely)  because they can promise them that "if you develop for OnLive, you won't have to worry about piracy!"


----------



## Mike0409 (Mar 26, 2009)

The entire objective of this is unparalleled to anything that has been done before.  With Fiber being laid as a backbone more and more homes going to fiber, and connections getting better this thing could take off.
Latency will always play a roll in communication because there's no way we can travel faster than light, but if the algorithm they have designed work's video like this, making it seem seamless with the interaction of other users then hell, I'm on board. 

Now the main thing is stress-test.  How well can these server's perform with 3 million user's cracking at them all playing Crysis?  That's what we have to wait and see.  And if this new algorithm is what they say, the best at streaming video i can't wait to see what it can do with basic video chat via skype or even cell phone's once the speed's increase to either the new 4G or the improvements on our current 3G networks.

I signed up for the beta, see how well it work's out.

For most of us that play game's it's not going to be a replacement for what our hearts are set on, but for those that want access to some of the latest and greatest and have trouble in economic times, I think it could play a great role in the market.  Cheap, easy access, to people that don't have all the option's that we have or the knowledge or drive to build a nice Rig.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 26, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> Actually, I take back what I said earlier, because I wasn't thinking this through correctly.
> 
> This has *nothing* to do with making things easier for the consumer (eliminating the need to upgrade, configure, etc.).
> 
> ...



Thats why I said this thing means "Gaming Socialism".


----------



## mdm-adph (Mar 26, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Thats why I said this thing means "Gaming Socialism".



Probably -- I haven't read anything but the 1st and 7th pages of this thread.  

But, call it what you will, it's the future, sadly enough.


----------



## Haytch (Mar 26, 2009)

This concept was played with by Sony pre-psx days and i think they borrowed the idea of someone else.  If i recall correctly, Sony even had a prototype at a Japanese tech expo.  The reason why this product stayed as a prototype now almost 20 ago was due to the poor infestructure available back then to execute such.

Nowdays the concept seems more viable, except ofcourse if you calculate the costs on paper.
Here in Australia we have great broadband coverage to almost all of the country, which in practicality means;   We all have 150kb/s as a maximum speed supported by multiple ISP's each offering competative rates.   

If you want ADSL 2+ or better, you must pay over 5 times more for areas not currently serviced by anyone other then Telstra.  With this extra speed for the extra money and stupid bandwith limits i think i would prefer to continue building gaming rigs.

The extra money needed for such a required internet connection will cost more then actually owning a decent mainstream pc.  (About $2,000au every year)

------------------

* Maybe they could give this mini-console away for free to countries that cant support the infestructure and double charge people that can *

--------------------

I called Optus, Dodo, TPG & iinet, and they all responded with the same reply. ' We are not expanding our ADSL2+ infestructure & only the areas currently being serviced are supported. Optus stated they only have plans for wireless over the next 20 years, but hardwire is deffinently off the agenda.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 26, 2009)

Haytch said:


> * Maybe they could give this mini-console away for free to countries that cant support the infestructure and double charge people that can *


 IM NOT PAYING A DIME SO YOU CAN GAME BUDDY!


----------



## Haytch (Mar 26, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> IM NOT PAYING A DIME SO YOU CAN GAME BUDDY!



ROFL, i think you missed the point.   In places such as Australia, the product would be useless.  There is no point in owning one if you cant utilize it, EVER.  This product is only valid in areas with high broadband capability.

Thanks for not offering a single dime, but im happy spending my well earnt money on quality products that assures me quality gaming.

One things for certain.  There is no way they could deliver the same video quality with 1ms delay.  It will probably be like watching something on youtube.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 26, 2009)

Haytch said:


> ROFL, i think you missed the point.   In places such as Australia, the product would be useless.  There is no point in owning one if you cant utilize it, EVER.  This product is only valid in areas with highbroadband capability.
> 
> Thanks for not offering a single dime, but im happy spending my well earnt money on quality products that assume me quality gaming.
> 
> One things for certain.  There is no way they could deliver the same video quality with 1ms delay.  It will probably be like watching something on youtube.



I don't know. Your avy seems to be saying it will take my money. By force is necessary. I'm watching you.


----------



## BOSE (Mar 26, 2009)

It will die off just like all the bad ideas die off every day.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Mar 26, 2009)

BOSE said:


> It will die off just like all the bad ideas die off every day.



Deep thoughts by BOSE.


----------



## Baum (Mar 26, 2009)

looks like they found a way to block trading games/after market for older games
now you loose all if you discontinue your contract  and own a non useful box

I would imagine that it works well but in the evening it might lagg when everybody comes home for gaming 

+ would be like steam no patches and updates and they only need one special version (optimised) for their server8s)

- omg imagine running server's around the clock just to "serve" gaming when somebody demands it, i think a single pc would be still more efficent


----------



## iStink (Mar 26, 2009)

Well it was nice knowin everyone.  I'm buying this and never buying another pc part again.

I'm sick of upgrading, spending the type of money I do, all so I can play yesteryear's game at the highest settings.

Nvidia and ati can suck a f*ck

PEACE I'M OUTTA HERE!


----------



## DrPepper (Mar 26, 2009)

iStink said:


> Well it was nice knowin everyone.  I'm buying this and never buying another pc part again.
> 
> I'm sick of upgrading, spending the type of money I do, all so I can play yesteryear's game at the highest settings.
> 
> ...



/waits until he regrets that.


----------



## BOSE (Mar 26, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> /waits until he regrets that.



Is your face purple yet?


----------



## mdm-adph (Mar 26, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> IM NOT PAYING A DIME SO YOU CAN GAME BUDDY!



You can and you will, if some politician can lump some capital for this into the "2011 SAVE THE CHILDREN FROM ONLINE PREDATORS BY BRINGING CLOUD COMPUTERS TO THE THIRD WORLD" act.

If you vote against it means you hate children!


----------



## DrPepper (Mar 26, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> You can and you will, if some politician can lump some capital for this into the "2011 SAVE THE CHILDREN FROM ONLINE PREDATORS BY BRINGING CLOUD COMPUTERS TO THE THIRD WORLD" act.
> 
> If you vote against it means you hate children!



I'd vote against it.



BOSE said:


> Is your face purple yet?



 <--


----------



## erocker (Mar 26, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> I'd vote against it.



Me too.  I admitedly hate children.


----------



## DrPepper (Mar 26, 2009)

erocker said:


> Me too.  I admitedly hate children.



Prepares for flaming from parents


----------



## BOSE (Mar 26, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> You can and you will, if some politician can lump some capital for this into the "2011 SAVE THE CHILDREN FROM ONLINE PREDATORS BY BRINGING CLOUD COMPUTERS TO THE THIRD WORLD" act.
> 
> If you vote against it means you hate children!





That wouldnt work, because we all know that Video Games turn kids in to violent killers. 



And i would vote against it as well.  Online predators in 3rd world country...heh.. thats funny. Have you seen what the kids look like in 3rd world country? Who would want to take advantage of them?


----------



## DrPepper (Mar 26, 2009)

BOSE said:


> That wouldnt work, because we all know that Video Games turn kids in to violent killers.
> 
> 
> 
> And i would vote against it as well.  Online predators in 3rd world country...heh.. thats funny. Have you seen what the kids look like in 3rd world country? Who would want to take advantage of them?



Garry Glitter.


----------



## BOSE (Mar 26, 2009)

Yeah.. i dont get the joke.


----------



## DrPepper (Mar 26, 2009)

BOSE said:


> Yeah.. i dont get the joke.



The brits who watch the news will ... I hope.


----------



## pentastar111 (Mar 26, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> Garry Glitter.


Now that  was sarcastic humor at it'd finest!  LOL


----------



## mdm-adph (Mar 26, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> I'd vote against it.





erocker said:


> Me too.  I admitedly hate children.



Neither one of you are politicians.  If you were a politician, you'd vote for it.  That's how government works.


----------



## DrPepper (Mar 26, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> Neither one of you are politicians.  If you were a politician, you'd vote for it.  That's how government works.



How do you know we're not  Erocker is actually barack obama and I'm gorden brown (damn I pulled the short straw)


----------



## Wile E (Mar 26, 2009)

erocker said:


> Me too.  I admitedly hate children.



Me too. I have 3 kids. lol.


----------



## Silverel (Mar 26, 2009)

Kids smell funny, cover things in goo, and have no qualms about playing in their own poo.

Then there's 3rd world country kids...

I'd vote no.


----------



## zCexVe (Mar 26, 2009)

This is the future.We just have the interface where all the processing is at the moon perhaps...


----------



## ShadowFold (Mar 26, 2009)

zCexVe said:


> This is the future.We just have the interface where all the processing is at the moon perhaps...



This certainly is not the future


----------



## phanbuey (Mar 26, 2009)

ShadowFold said:


> This certainly is not the future



for sure not...

even if they can deliver 60FPS lag free over the net... doesn't that stuff STILL have to be rendered somehow?  if 5,000 people wanna play crysis at 720P on ultra high at a constant 60FPS, don't you still need 5,000 GTX 260's or HD 4870's (or equivalent power) to render it?

how can this make any money, unless it charges out the A$$, is beyond me.  And what happens when they need to upgrade?... are we all going to pay $200 to maintain the service? or will we have to buy another $200 network card, so that they can upgrade their server?

Forget it. the technology is not there, nor is it moving in this direction.  Thin client is like public transportation - good idea on paper, but inevitably the experience sucks.


----------



## DrPepper (Mar 26, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> for sure not...
> 
> even if they can deliver 60FPS lag free over the net... doesn't that stuff STILL have to be rendered somehow?  if 5,000 people wanna play crysis at 720P on ultra high at a constant 60FPS, don't you still need 5,000 GTX 260's or HD 4870's (or equivalent power) to render it?
> 
> ...



Indeed. Also what about cpu calculations, They can't all be done on a gpu which is what I believe the server is based on. Massive gpu farms all calculating away but what about cpu instructions for physics. Surely you would need at least one core per user and thats alot of cpu's even quads or i7's also not to mention the cpu's to provide instructions to the gpu's and the hard drives constantly sending tons of data to the gpu's. It isn't economically possible considering hardware breakdown, cooling and unlike normal mail servers the massive increase in electricity and the backup for these servers.


----------



## CDdude55 (Mar 26, 2009)

Even in the future will still have problems, and then we will be saying again ''this definitely isn't the future''. Tech just isn't going to stop one day and we all say ''ok tech is as far as is going to go''(unless the world ends,lol). So there really isn't a ''future'' in the tech world as it will always be advancing.


----------



## phanbuey (Mar 26, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> Indeed. Also what about cpu calculations, They can't all be done on a gpu which is what I believe the server is based on. Massive gpu farms all calculating away but what about cpu instructions for physics. Surely you would need at least one core per user and thats alot of cpu's even quads or i7's also not to mention the cpu's to provide instructions to the gpu's and the hard drives constantly sending tons of data to the gpu's. It isn't economically possible considering hardware breakdown, cooling and unlike normal mail servers the massive increase in electricity and the backup for these servers.



That's exactly what I was thinking... even if they found a way to make it 90% cheaper... all the heat and the electricity, the maintenance, used to support even a relatively tiny (100,000 users) all playing something like Crysis would just skyrocket the overhead costs...  I wont even consider upgrade costs.


----------



## BOSE (Mar 26, 2009)

One thing that is good about this, and one thing only. This will stop people from cheating/hacking at online games, but only for those that use this device/service.

And no, they wont find a way around it, because they wont have any direct access to the PC from which data is streaming.


----------



## DrPepper (Mar 27, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> That's exactly what I was thinking... even if they found a way to make it 90% cheaper... all the heat and the electricity, the maintenance, used to support even a relatively tiny (100,000 users) all playing something like Crysis would just skyrocket the overhead costs...  I wont even consider upgrade costs.



Its interesting to think imagine they used dunningtons. 6 Core monsters that consumes 130w. Say that server has 30 4870's at 250 watts max (assuming they can fit that many) 24/7. Say that serves 60 people so no doubt that server will have a ups and an extensive hard drive raid setup. Then think about how many other servers there will have to be in order to maintain a customer base of a thousand people.


----------



## tkpenalty (Mar 27, 2009)

Sigh... the only place in the world where this system would work would be korea, where the internet infrastructure is consistently good.


----------



## ShogoXT (Mar 27, 2009)

Agreed TK, its not going to work for PC and the ISPs are never going to go with it.
"You want to make it so we have much higher usage all the time!?!? NO WAY!!"


----------



## Ongaku (Mar 27, 2009)

"spend hundreds to even thousands of Dollars regularly to keep our PCs up to date, to be able to play the latest PC games."

yeah, this is horse sh** right here. 

Look at my system specs, yes my GPU is considered pretty damn old for these days. But I can play almost every new game to date at a reasonable frame rate. Crysis is the exception...as it is with most people. The only game I saw that's coming out that I MIGHT not be able to handle is the new Chronicles of Riddick game, but I'll probably even be able to play that on medium-high. This is my first what I consider "real" computer...I got lucky on a few parts but this thing was a one time investment of what a couple hundred dollars? And my next GPU is gonna cost me a whole $100...

I was on spikedhumor and someone uploaded a video about this stupid thing. It was terrible, just a huge sales ploy making seem like the godliest most coolest thing in the universe....720p oooohh that's so awesome..:shadedshu *yawn* that's like what 1024x768 on a normal screen? Yeah, that game is gonna look just fantastic...

I don't know, it's a dumb idea and I just had to say it....this won't work...the amount of powerful computers they will need to have, their servers will have to be crazy fast, the power consumption alone makes my head spin, and it's just plain stupid that I'm playing a STREAMED GAME!  And I just wonder how much these idiots will charge a month to use this service, plus how much you'll have to pay to "buy" the "game".

lol...when I saw this it kinda reminded me of Sega Channel...but Sega Channel worked  I don't know if you guys remember it or if your cable service offered it...but you got this cartridge that you plug into the Sega, and the cartridge hooks up to your cable and you got 30 Sega games a month for $15...christ I was like 7 when I got that lol....

two words for this: epic fail


----------



## Mussels (Mar 27, 2009)

ongaku:
about the 720P thing, i've had a few console obsessed people hear me say my screen is 768P - better than 720P and they've drooled.

Tell a PC user its 1360x768 and they tend to laugh at how low it is.

I played the original unreal tournament at 1280x1024 FFS!


----------



## Ongaku (Mar 27, 2009)

lol....I bet they don't realise that computer monitors have been "HD" forever either. 

I don't know, this is just so stupid! My head can't get around it....how much bandwidth you would use just to play one game...and they really think this will "threaten" PC upgrades? I lol at that


----------



## DrPepper (Mar 27, 2009)

Mussels said:


> ongaku:
> about the 720P thing, i've had a few console obsessed people hear me say my screen is 768P - better than 720P and they've drooled.
> 
> Tell a PC user its 1360x768 and they tend to laugh at how low it is.
> ...



Alot of my friends didn't think 1680 x 1050 was better than 720p



Ongaku said:


> lol....I bet they don't realise that computer monitors have been "HD" forever either.
> 
> I don't know, this is just so stupid! My head can't get around it....how much bandwidth you would use just to play one game...and they really think this will "threaten" PC upgrades? I lol at that



I still think it would have been better if the software worked inside the computer than replace it.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 27, 2009)

With the claims they make in a video review i saw they quoted the following
1.5Mb connection("1.2Mb real" - their words) for 480P
4Mb (real) for 720P
?Mb 1080P

If they say you need 4Mb for 720P, holy shit your bandwidth is going away fast.
4Mb = 512KB/s
Thats 1,800MB an hour, at a solid rate. This aint gunna work on anyones net... most cable users have poor speeds in on-peak periods, and everyone else has download limits that make this useless.

edit:
1.2Mb is approx 150KB/s
thats 527MB an hour. for 480P gaming. Bleh.


----------



## scarab (Mar 29, 2009)

Mussels said:


> If they say you need 4Mb for 720P, holy shit your bandwidth is going away fast.
> 4Mb = 512KB/s
> Thats 1,800MB an hour, at a solid rate. This aint gunna work on anyones net... most cable users have poor speeds in on-peak periods, and everyone else has download limits that make this useless.
> 
> ...


Dude.  it's not 1,800 megabytes.  It's 1,800 megabits - or 230 Megabytes per hour.  If your internet can't download 230 megabytes in an hour, I wouldn't even call that broadband.


and 527MB / 8 = 65 Megabytes per hour for 1.2meg connection.

230 Megabytes for 1 hour of 720p video is really good!  Keep in mind that the guy who started onlive has invented a lot of shit.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 29, 2009)

scarab said:


> Dude.  it's not 1,800 megabytes.  It's 1,800 megabits - or 230 Megabytes per hour.  If your internet can't download 230 megabytes in an hour, I wouldn't even call that broadband.
> 
> 
> and 527MB / 8 = 65 Megabytes per hour for 1.2meg connection.
> ...



i think i fucked up an edit in there. Let me check.
edit: nope. i did not.

8mb = 1MB
4Mb = 0.5MB

starting at 8Mb
1MB a second * 60 seconds in a minute (60MB) * 60 minutes in an hour. = 3600MBs an hour.
halve that for a 4Mb connection, and its 1800MBs an hour.
You sir, fucked up your math. not me.

edit: and with simple halving...

2Mb = 900MB/h
1MB = 450MB/h


----------



## Hayder_Master (Mar 29, 2009)

what price of this , anyway i still prefer upgrade pc


----------



## DaveK (Mar 29, 2009)

On the subject of 720p video, a good enough bitrate for video is 5,000Kbps, wouldn't that require a 40Mb connection for streaming?


----------



## morpha (Mar 29, 2009)

OnLive is a null venture.

</thread>


----------



## Mussels (Mar 29, 2009)

DaveK said:


> On the subject of 720p video, a good enough bitrate for video is 5,000Kbps, wouldn't that require a 40Mb connection for streaming?



You just said a 5Mb stream will require 40Mb net.

I'm a little confused now.


----------



## DaveK (Mar 29, 2009)

Mussels said:


> You just said a 5Mb stream will require 40Mb net.
> 
> I'm a little confused now.



Wait, I was a little confused writing that lol, My 20Mb connection can download at 2,500Kbps so a 40Mb connection downloads at 5,000Kbps. Wouldn't a video that plays at 5,000kbps require a connection that can download at 5,000kbps? I may be getting confused with the whole sign thing i.e MB, Mb.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 29, 2009)

DaveK said:


> Wait, I was a little confused writing that lol, My 20Mb connection can download at 2,500Kbps so a 40Mb connection downloads at 5,000Kbps. Wouldn't a video that plays at 5,000kbps require a connection that can download at 5,000kbps? I may be getting confused with the whole sign thing i.e MB, Mb.



you most definately are confused.

your 20Mb (Megabit) connection downloads at 2,500 (KB) KiloBytes a second.

5,000 Kb video requires 625KB/s


----------



## DaveK (Mar 29, 2009)

Mussels said:


> you most definately are confused.
> 
> your 20Mb (Megabit) connection downloads at 2,500 (KB) KiloBytes a second.
> 
> 5,000 Kb video requires 625KB/s



Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me, I knew I was wrong when it was hard for me to figure out what I wrote lol. The speedtest website I used said  2,500Kb lol.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 29, 2009)

DaveK said:


> Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me, I knew I was wrong when it was hard for me to figure out what I wrote lol.



upper case B signifies bytes
lower case b signifies bits.

8 bits to the byte, so 8Mb = 1MB, and so on.


----------



## scarab (Mar 30, 2009)

Mussels said:


> With the claims they make in a video review i saw they quoted the following
> 1.5Mb connection("1.2Mb real" - their words) for 480P
> 4Mb (real) for 720P
> ?Mb 1080P
> ...





Mussels said:


> i think i fucked up an edit in there. Let me check.
> edit: nope. i did not.
> 
> 8mb = 1MB
> ...



Oh yea.  WHen you said 4mb = 512KB/s i was thinking 512Kilobits per second - which, now that i think about it, doesn't make any sense.

Holy tits 1800 Megabytes per hour to run onlive.  There's no way a 4mb connection is gonna do that.  They've gotta have some ridiculously fast upload servers.  I have a 20meg connection.  I can obviously download that fast, but i'm yet to find anywhere that can upload as fast as I download.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 30, 2009)

you dont need the same upload, its the download you need.

The problem is that any fluctuations in ping or packet loss, are going to screw the video up.
And hell, even in the USA the big companies (comcast) have download limits. sure its a huge 250GB, but at almost 2GB an hour, thats not much gmaing!


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## NamesDontMatter (Mar 30, 2009)

Well I've read through the pages of posts, many of which are uninformed and very stupid describing things that have already been confirmed as invalid. Please read articles before commenting on them. Somone said they wanted this as a "plugin card to the pc" . . .  this works on all PC's! its a browser plugin! It works on PC's Macs, and with their little microbox on TV's as standalone. "Please read, watch, and listen if not your ignorance shines."

Also the he said she said is invalid here since this can be variable based on packet loss cause by modems, firewalls, bad isps, slow internet speed etc. Not to mention the service is still in alpha, it has been 7 years in development and has comapnies like autodesk, warner brothers, etc backing them. It didn't just start yesterday!

For those who are misinformed watch the video! 

http://gdc.gamespot.com/video/6206692/gdc-2009-onlive-press-conference?hd=1


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## scarab (Mar 30, 2009)

I'm willing to give it a shot, but seeing is believing. Until then, I'm skeptical.  I don't think MS will do this until the gen after next.  I bet next-gen xbox will be download to a hard-drive only.


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## Taz100420 (Mar 30, 2009)

I like the looks of the browser and the features look nice. We will see how it all pans out in the end. If it does well, I will be def. getting one.


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## A Cheese Danish (Mar 31, 2009)

So their top server uses dual 8800 GTX's...And the reason they run so fast is due to 16 RAID hard drives. If you can't match the download speed, won't it lag a bit? And you have to test your internet connection to see if it works with their servers.
So if it doesn't meet the standards, I take it you have to return it to wherever you bought it at? Sounds like a lot of trouble for trying to get a game to run at 720p.
And no custom maps or mods are able to be played. Kind of upsetting really.

It is really taking all the fun out of building a pc to meet the needs of newer tech games.


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## kid41212003 (Oct 9, 2010)

There's free trial now... 30 mins for each game. I just played borderland on it.. not so bad.

http://www.onlive.com/#3


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## CDdude55 (Oct 9, 2010)

kid41212003 said:


> There's free trial now... 30 mins for each game. I just played borderland on it.. not so bad.
> 
> http://www.onlive.com/#3



Awesome!

Gonna give it a try.


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## Solaris17 (Oct 9, 2010)

what about the technical aspect? with HD steams that big what happens to the monthly bandwidth cap that all big ISP's now put on people?


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## zithe (Oct 9, 2010)

I get about double what the ads say you need and regularly, too. Don't see how this is so impossible.

If anything, it'll flop because of the cost to maintain the service, won't it?


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## DonInKansas (Oct 9, 2010)

I can't even get SD worthy internet service for this.  Failsauce.


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## CDdude55 (Oct 9, 2010)

The application won't launch for me because my internet connection is some shit.


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## kid41212003 (Oct 9, 2010)

Did anyone else try this? It took me under 2 mins to install the app and start a game...


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## scaminatrix (Oct 9, 2010)

Can't try it myself (56k), looks interesting though.
The Brag thing looks good; recording your footage online without any extra apps on your pc... very cool.


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## DrPepper (Oct 9, 2010)

Works fine but looks like total ass.


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## DaMulta (Oct 9, 2010)

I need to reinstall windows on my laptop.....this could be kool!!!!!!

I get about 6 on my internet connection...and so this shouldn't be too bad!

Sucks you have to pay full price for all the games....well not so much I guess steam works off this system!

If it kicks ass.....I might just stick to this system instead......


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## DrPepper (Oct 9, 2010)

DaMulta said:


> I need to reinstall windows on my laptop.....this could be kool!!!!!!
> 
> I get about 6 on my internet connection...and so this shouldn't be too bad!
> 
> ...



It's good if you have a nettop with the 1360 x 768 resolution since it will allow gaming even on a shitty intel GMA. Assuming the cpu load isn't too much. Would also be very good on all apple laptops and ultra lights.


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## Mussels (Oct 10, 2010)

DonInKansas said:


> I can't even get SD worthy internet service for this.  Failsauce.



thats my concern, lag will be shit unless the servers are located really really close to you/your ISP.



DrPepper said:


> It's good if you have a nettop with the 1360 x 768 resolution since it will allow gaming even on a shitty intel GMA. Assuming the cpu load isn't too much. Would also be very good on all apple laptops and ultra lights.



yeah, exactly. for really low end systems this is an upgrade, for everyone else its worthless.


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## Melvis (Oct 10, 2010)

Useless in my country (or at least this area) as we wont get internet like that for another 10yrs.

And there will always be upgrades, even that thing will hit a brick wall in the future.


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## Wile E (Oct 10, 2010)

When they first announced this, I was under the impression it was along the lines of you pay a monthly fee, and you can play x number of games a month. 

It's not like that at all. You have to buy rights to each individual game. To get anytime usage rights, you have to pay the full price for the game.

This is stupid. If I pay full price for a game, I want a full blown copy.

The idea had potential for those that don't mind a little less quality, but I think they are gonna flop with this execution. They just made it too pricey.


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## Kantastic (Oct 10, 2010)

Wile E said:


> When they first announced this, I was under the impression it was along the lines of you pay a monthly fee, and you can play x number of games a month.
> 
> It's not like that at all. You have to buy rights to each individual game. To get anytime usage rights, you have to pay the full price for the game.
> 
> ...



Trade-off is you don't have to upgrade your computer so often.


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## CDdude55 (Oct 10, 2010)

Kantastic said:


> Trade-off is you don't have to upgrade your computer so often.



But i love doing that..  lol


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## Frick (Oct 10, 2010)

Will try it out when I get home to my 100mbit line.


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## Wile E (Oct 10, 2010)

Kantastic said:


> Trade-off is you don't have to upgrade your computer so often.



Don't have to upgrade that often to play today's games with the same quality as this. An 8800 will easily match this in quality. A 4 year old card. That's not exactly the need for frequent upgrades.


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## Mussels (Oct 11, 2010)

Wile E said:


> When they first announced this, I was under the impression it was along the lines of you pay a monthly fee, and you can play x number of games a month.
> 
> It's not like that at all. You have to buy rights to each individual game. To get anytime usage rights, you have to pay the full price for the game.
> 
> ...



exactly, i thought it was subscription/rental based, not 'buy the game AND pay for the service'


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## kid41212003 (Oct 11, 2010)

Mussels said:


> exactly, i thought it was subscription/rental based, not 'buy the game AND pay for the service'



You buy the game, but the service doesn't cost you anything. You can either rent games or pay full price.


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## AphexDreamer (Oct 11, 2010)

Hmm seems like a great alternative for individuals who can't afford an expensive console or PC to play games. I'm glad this exists and as internet connections improve so will Onlive. Maybe if this becomes really popular we can see lower prices in games, PC hardware, Consoles or something.


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## hat (Oct 11, 2010)

I would rather have a great PC that can handle all the processing rather then piping everything over the net. That said, gonna give this free trial a shot and see how it does.


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## Wile E (Oct 11, 2010)

kid41212003 said:


> You buy the game, but the service doesn't cost you anything. You can either rent games or pay full price.



So, if the quality is lower than that of a budget gaming PC or console, what's the benefit? You still have to buy the game to have use of it all the time. 

For anyone with a 9600GT or better, this is a ripoff.


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## kid41212003 (Oct 11, 2010)

I was just pointing what was wrong... that's all.

I like the idea, but because of the current internet infrastructures it doesn't work really well. I'm sure once high speed internet are available everywhere this will be a big boom...


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## hat (Oct 11, 2010)

^^agreed. The graphics were pretty bad, around PS2 level. Graphics is a huge selling point these days. Load times were slow. I don't see it taking off, really.


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## Wile E (Oct 11, 2010)

hat said:


> ^^agreed. The graphics were pretty bad, around PS2 level. Graphics is a huge selling point these days. Load times were slow. I don't see it taking off, really.



Now, make it $14.99/mo and you get to play say 5 or 6 titles as long as you like each month, and maybe this might start to make some sense. Not the current business model tho.


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## kid41212003 (Oct 11, 2010)

hat said:


> ^^agreed. The graphics were pretty bad, around PS2 level. Graphics is a huge selling point these days. Load times were slow. I don't see it taking off, really.



I wouldn't say it's THAT bad. I believe the quality change according to your internet speed.

I played 30mins of Borderland. Textures look good, but it looks like a badly converted 720p video.


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