# Did you get a shiny new Ryzen 3000 CPU?



## TheLostSwede (Jul 8, 2019)

I was seemingly lucky and got one of what was apparently a very small shipment of Ryzen 3000 CPUs.
All the models over the 3600X are sold out here.
I managed to grab a 3800X, which should be plenty for my needs, although it won't arrive for a couple of days.
At least there are no crazy over inflated prices here, as all the shops charge more or less the same price for the CPUs.
Obviously as everywhere, there are some unscrupulous people selling chips on the local equivalent of eBay for a lot more, but they can get stuffed...


----------



## Vario (Jul 8, 2019)

Nice! Which motherboard do you plan to run?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 8, 2019)

As of right now, it looks like it'll be the X570 Aorus Master.
Also waiting for some other new bits to turn up, as I'm doing a 70% new rig.
Keeping my graphics card and SSDs, but everything else will be new.

The upgrade itch is real...


----------



## xtreemchaos (Jul 8, 2019)

not yet im holding out for the 16core if it performs, new mobo too hopefully . im hoping to get a half decent mobo for £250ish or what ever I have left out £1000 when ive brought the cpu. but not until the new year I need a few good reviews before I take the plunge.


----------



## Dristun (Jul 8, 2019)

Would love to grab a 3700X but it looks like Russia's not getting anything this week, AMD's social media here is directing people to sign up for email notifications.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 8, 2019)

Dristun said:


> Would love to grab a 3700X but it looks like Russia's not getting anything this week, AMD's social media here is directing people to sign up for email notifications.


That's weird. Could be that they're stuck in customs or something?
Lots of the online stores here have pulled their listings, which suggests the stock is sold out for now.


----------



## Vayra86 (Jul 8, 2019)

You better give us a Cinebench or something when its done, you hear!


----------



## Bones (Jul 8, 2019)

@Dristun Man, that just bites!
Hope you guys can get them soon. 

Everything above a 3600x is sold out at the egg and no doubt at least the same is true with other retailers.
I am suprised, yet not suprised at the inventory of X570 boards still available for them. I mentioned elsewhere I had noticed a bump in prices for the X470 boards about a week ago and thought they were doing that because many would just get an older, cheaper model board.


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 8, 2019)

No, im waiting for the Ryzen 9 3950X and see what it can do. I am hoping as this one shut get binned chiplets, it will have a better overclock capability. The other out now seems to max out at 4.3-4.4 ghz all core. I am hoping the 16 core could go to 4.5-4.6 ghz all core clock when overclock.

I am planing to pair it with a ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Hero X570 motherboard. I chose X570 over X470 because i want my pc as future proof as possible as i have my pc for years. Just look at my spec, im still on X58 and been there for 10 years now.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 8, 2019)

According to Anandtech, AMD has two different chiplets, but the other one is even higher power and seems to be for Epyc and Threadripper.
They mentioned it in a footnote to a table for the X570 chipset.



> Due to two different variations of the X570 chipset, one with a 15 W and another with an 11 W TDP, the extra power allows for more PCIe lanes, thus better GPU support overall. One example is the ASUS Pro WS X570-Ace model.











						The AMD 3rd Gen Ryzen Deep Dive Review: 3700X and 3900X Raising The Bar
					






					www.anandtech.com
				




Doesn't seem like that would be a better die to get inside a CPU though.

As for the top speeds, it seems to have a wide range of reasonable and unreasonable explanations, but key is going to be to have liquid cooling, by the looks of things.
However, some appears to the UEFI related, some driver related and some is apparently a combination of black magic, voodoo and witchcraft, depending on where you read about it...


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Jul 8, 2019)

Yep, I grabbed a 3700X and Crosshair WiFi from Micro Center yesterday. The line at 9AM was surprisingly long... 

They were doing a special discount where you got $50 off of your motherboard purchase on launch day. I basically got my CPU and MB tax free (okay, I paid $2.80...)! 

Tom, 4.5 to 4.6 is never going to happen, I can guarantee you that. Most chips are, as said, topping at 4.3 to 4.4. Mine is at 4.3 and honestly, it's a lot faster than my 2700X at 4.1, so I cannot complain. AMD did very well this round.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 8, 2019)

So lucky, I woke up early and nothing was for sale and no reviews posted yet so I went back to bed for a few hours. I got up and everywhere was sold out of the 3800X. One vendor had 3700Xs still in stock but that was it. Plenty of motherboards left to buy but I'm not buying a board until I get a chip. Guess it gives me more time to debate going 3900x...


----------



## Lorec (Jul 8, 2019)

I gave up right off the bat. 
Here, release was at 19:00 on sunday, but knowing life ppl were camping out from early morning.
I took my wife for a  dinner, when we came back (around 21:00) all above 3600X was bought out.

Anyhow, I need to grab a x570 mobo. cheapest.
Otherwise my recently bought argb fans wont work...lol
(to preempt: I know I can get a x470 with argb connector but its not worth it at this point)


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 8, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> Yep, I grabbed a 3700X and Crosshair WiFi from Micro Center yesterday. The line at 9AM was surprisingly long...
> 
> They were doing a special discount where you got $50 off of your motherboard purchase on launch day. I basically got my CPU and MB tax free (okay, I paid $2.80...)!
> 
> Tom, 4.5 to 4.6 is never going to happen, I can guarantee you that. Most chips are, as said, topping at 4.3 to 4.4. Mine is at 4.3 and honestly, it's a lot faster than my 2700X at 4.1, so I cannot complain. AMD did very well this round.



Yeah i'm afraid of that. Hands down amd dit well with ipc on ryzen 3000. Its more because as i am a  overclock enthusiast and comming from a platform where i have overclock an I7 920 to 4.4 ghz and my current i7 980X up to 4.75 ghz and thats like over 1 ghz over stock clock on bofh cpu's. Then comming to a new platform where cpu baraly can do 4.4 ghz and the cpu already at stock is more or less maxed out as there are less to none gain in manuel overclock a ryzen 3000 cpu. That is dissapointing for one like me that enjoy to puch hardware. But in the other hand intel has also puched there cpu qiut high. I9 9900k all ready do all core turbo to 4.7 ghz and as far i know, most of these dont go over 5 ghz, so that is a measly oc if 300 mhz. I guess the fun days with 1 ghz overclock over stock is a thing of the past. Off cause for those that dont whant to overclock is good amd has pushed the cpu so far stock.

Please leave me alone for a moment as i wipe away the tears of sadness over what overclock has become to .

I guess i just have to live with that high core clock oc is over for now.


----------



## Bones (Jul 8, 2019)

I realize this was done on LN2 but proves these CAN get 5.0 or better, just not with the cooling/setups typically seen here.... Or anywhere else TBH.









						FUGGER`s Cinebench - R11.5 score: 43.04 points with a Ryzen 9 3900X
					

The Ryzen 9 3900X @ 5000MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R11.5 benchmark. FUGGERranks #6 worldwide and #6 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




					hwbot.org
				











						FUGGER`s CPU Frequency score: 5298.7 MHz with a Ryzen 9 3900X
					

The Ryzen 9 3900X @ 5298.7MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the CPU Frequency benchmark. FUGGERranks #null worldwide and #14 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




					hwbot.org
				











						IvanCupa`s CPU Frequency score: 5454.58 MHz with a Ryzen 9 3900X
					

The Ryzen 9 3900X @ 5454.6MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the CPU Frequency benchmark. IvanCuparanks #null worldwide and #13 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




					hwbot.org
				




I woudn't worry about an arbitrary number, just enjoy what you get.


----------



## lsevald (Jul 8, 2019)

I can only find r3600 in stock. I'm considering getting one and a decent x570 board. I already have RAM and everything else. I might just go for the 3600, have some fun with it, and upgrade the cpu later on when things have settled. Hope for better chips, lower prices, black Friday deals etc as I'm a bit underwhelmed by the reviews of the 3700 and up (gaming). Hopefully it's just buggy BIOS/drivers, and or early chips. I bet all the nice ones go to Epyc/Rome at this time.

I have my trigger finger ready on a MSI Pro Carbon x570 and the mentioned 3600, both in stock, but strangely I find no reviews of the Pro Carbon...


----------



## Dristun (Jul 8, 2019)

Haha, one of the big stores is now listing 3600 availability at _24th of July! _
Looks like our market just didn't get any part of initial allocation at all. Makes me wonder if (why?) they had to launch so early when surely they know they don't have nearly enough stock + intel got no direct response anyway.


----------



## Vario (Jul 8, 2019)

Bones said:


> I realize this was done on LN2 but proves these CAN get 5.0 or better, just not with the cooling/setups typically seen here.... Or anywhere else TBH.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't think 5GHz and higher is going to be reachable on watercooling, you need phase change or LN2 or liquid helium.  Extreme setups only.  Not even a waterchiller will reach it.  Look at the
Der8auer's video at 6 mins shows temperatures colder than -140*C for reaching 5GHz.












edit: then there is also commentary that bios issues are preventing the CPU from boosting well, and these will be remedied so performance will greatly improved once fixed: 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cacwf9


----------



## trog100 (Jul 8, 2019)

its pretty obvious what happens next.. instant sell out at the nice price when they come back in stock the price will go up.. 

trog


----------



## svan71 (Jul 8, 2019)

Waiting for the 16 Core, by then all the motherbood reviews will be in and the 4.0 M.2's will be out.


----------



## newtekie1 (Jul 8, 2019)

I'm waiting for the dust to settle and maybe even a round of price cuts from both sides(I'm optimistic) before upgrading my 2600 to a 3900X.


----------



## kapone32 (Jul 8, 2019)

I was just looking on Newegg Canada/ They have everything except the 3900X in stock. They even have a bunch of different X570 boards. Would you believe that the As Rock X570 boards are all pre order but come with a MIR!!!


----------



## svan71 (Jul 8, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> I was just looking on Newegg Canada/ They have everything except the 3900X in stock. They even have a bunch of different X570 boards. Would you believe that the As Rock X570 boards are all pre order but come with a MIR!!!



MIR ? How much


----------



## kapone32 (Jul 8, 2019)

svan71 said:


> MIR ? How much



$30 for the mainstream and $40 for the high end boards. I did not see the one from CES though.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jul 8, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> Yeah i'm afraid of that. Hands down amd dit well with ipc on ryzen 3000. Its more because as i am a  overclock enthusiast and comming from a platform where i have overclock an I7 920 to 4.4 ghz and my current i7 980X up to 4.75 ghz and thats like over 1 ghz over stock clock on bofh cpu's. Then comming to a new platform where cpu baraly can do 4.4 ghz and the cpu already at stock is more or less maxed out as there are less to none gain in manuel overclock a ryzen 3000 cpu. That is dissapointing for one like me that enjoy to puch hardware. But in the other hand intel has also puched there cpu qiut high. I9 9900k all ready do all core turbo to 4.7 ghz and as far i know, most of these dont go over 5 ghz, so that is a measly oc if 300 mhz. I guess the fun days with 1 ghz overclock over stock is a thing of the past. Off cause for those that dont whant to overclock is good amd has pushed the cpu so far stock.
> 
> Please leave me alone for a moment as i wipe away the tears of sadness over what overclock has become to .
> 
> I guess i just have to live with that high core clock oc is over for now.


That's how it is now performance optimised per chip but there are loads and loads of settings to mess with and I'm presently mildly pushing Pbo beyond its comfort zone and memory timings too, with modern chips overclocking might well turn into a more over cooling thing with tweaks, I'm definitely conductonaught ing my present and next CPU.
Presently on hold, since I'm sort of homeless since weekend(im not on the street though) and now all my juicy CPU savings might be needed for a deposit, damn it lol.


----------



## Tatty_One (Jul 8, 2019)

I may well give one a try on my next build, probably in the Autumn, I don't really need masses of cores/threads as I only do a bit of light gaming and some MS Office so I will probably go for the 3600X with it's 6 core 12 thread setup coupled with a X470 board and a RAM upgrade, as much because it's been so long since I had an AMD CPU (13 years) and it's a lot more worthwhile now.


----------



## Vayra86 (Jul 8, 2019)

Lorec said:


> I gave up right off the bat.
> Here, release was at 19:00 on sunday, but knowing life ppl were camping out from early morning.
> I took my wife for a  dinner, when we came back (around 21:00) all above 3600X was bought out.
> 
> ...



Hang on. Pinch me here, did you buy fans first and then started the search for a compatible board?

 badass


----------



## trog100 (Jul 8, 2019)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> That's how it is now performance optimised per chip but there are loads and loads of settings to mess with and I'm presently mildly pushing Pbo beyond its comfort zone and memory timings too, with modern chips overclocking might well turn into a more over cooling thing with tweaks, I'm definitely conductonaught ing my present and next CPU.
> Presently on hold, since I'm sort of homeless since weekend(im not on the street though) and now all my juicy CPU savings might be needed for a deposit, damn it lol.



as core counts go up real performance will be 100% governed by cooling.. new chips will boost to a given figure as long as certain conditions are met.. it will all be done in the bios.. how hot the f-cking things get will be the main limitation.. 

trog


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Jul 8, 2019)

Core voltage plays a big part in it. TPU setting it to 1.4v and seeing how far it’ll go is entirely wrong. 

My chip can do 4.3 at 1.31v but will fail at 1.4v due to heat.


----------



## mstenholm (Jul 8, 2019)

3900X and GB X570 Master comfirmed.


Vario said:


> I don't think 5GHz and higher is going to be reachable on watercooling, you need phase change or LN2 or liquid helium.  Extreme setups only.  Not even a waterchiller will reach it.  Look at the
> Der8auer's video at 6 mins shows temperatures colder than -140*C for reaching 5GHz.
> 
> 
> ...


Is this a spin-off from the AnandTech review? I know for a fact that the new BIOS was ready for download on the 2nd. BS Mr Andrei. The BIOS used for "our" x570 Taichi is version 1.30. There are no listing of anything newer other then the 1.40 dated 5th July for Extreme "Enhance Ryzen 9 CPU performance ". Makes me think that there might be a similar, but not used, update ready for Taichi.


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 8, 2019)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> That's how it is now performance optimised per chip but there are loads and loads of settings to mess with and I'm presently mildly pushing Pbo beyond its comfort zone and memory timings too, with modern chips overclocking might well turn into a more over cooling thing with tweaks, I'm definitely conductonaught ing my present and next CPU.
> Presently on hold, since I'm sort of homeless since weekend(im not on the street though) and now all my juicy CPU savings might be needed for a deposit, damn it lol.



Yeah i been told there are tons of stuff in bios to mess around with. But still find it sad that overclock is not what it used to be.

I hope you can find a new home then before to long. Its not funny living on streets for sure. A friend of mine lived on the streets years back as he got kicked out from home. After a few weeks he luckely found a new home and later a girlfriend and living a good life today. But those weeks took a tall on him back then.


----------



## X800 (Jul 8, 2019)

This is what i got for my older daughter . 
TUF-B450-PRO-GAMING
Ryzen 5 3600, AM4, 3.6 GHz, 6-core
16GB (2 x 8GB) Sniper X, DDR4 3600MHz, CL19, 1.35V
RADEON-RX-5700-XT-8G 
She needed the uppgrade from amd 8350.
Its going nice to see what this system does.


----------



## Metroid (Jul 8, 2019)

I guess the hype for the last 3 months will make these ryzen 3xxx series cpus to be very sought after during the first month or so, holiday season too, that makes a valuable purchase too, in the uk the 3700x is being sold for $400. $329 + 20% vat.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jul 8, 2019)

Grabbed a 3900X with the Aorus Master... They were doing a 20$ off combo on newegg right when they went online around 12:45 am pst. Should be delivered before Friday.

I haven't decided yet but I am planning on pairing it with a 2070 Super or 2080 Super.....


----------



## mstenholm (Jul 8, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Grabbed a 3900X with the Aorus Master... They were doing a 20$ off combo on newegg right when they went online around 12:45 am pst. Should be delivered before Friday.
> 
> I haven't decided yet but I am planning on pairing it with a 2070 Super or 2080 Super.....


Nice, somebody to look over the shoulder if I run into problems....


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jul 8, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> Nice, somebody to look over the shoulder if I run into problems....




I know there are a ton of reviews and what not to compare but I am excited to see how it stacks up to my main 9900k system.... The 3900X system will mostly be used by my wife.


----------



## mstenholm (Jul 8, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> I know there are a ton of reviews and what not to compare but I am excited to see how it stacks up to my main 9900k system.... The 3900X system will mostly be used by my wife.


And mine will run under Ubuntu18.04...but tested/tweaked with Win 10.


----------



## purecain (Jul 8, 2019)

bought a 3900x to install on my x370 crosshair vi hero …. I saw some numbers from a timmy joe vid and it looks like it works fine on the b350 chipset.
its going to be interesting to see what kind of performance I can achieve on this board.
ive run the 1800x, a 2700x and now the 3900x all on the same chipset. ive saved at least £2000 jumping from intel ship.
I dont fancy paying £600+ for a crosshair VIII 570x, although I will when the 3950x is released.
my chip isnt going to arrive for another 5 days at least... then I'll have some numbers... I have a feeling there wont be much difference between 370x and 570x...
this chip will be less of a bottleneck for my v100 also... exciting


----------



## Lorec (Jul 9, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> Hang on. Pinch me here, did you buy fans first and then started the search for a compatible board?
> 
> badass


*ahem* It was my first actual rgb, I didnt know there are 12V and 5V connectors  so I made sure its mystic light compatible with my board  and so now im stuck to upgrading to x570 gaming plus only haha anyhow, buildzoid said it will easily handle oced  12core so its not end of the world.
oh well shit happens.


----------



## advanced3 (Jul 9, 2019)

Went to Micro center for a 3900x, sold out. Left with a 3700X for the time being.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 9, 2019)

Shiney new 3800X on the way!!! I got a notification this afternoon and grabbed my 3800X and the only decent X570 motherboard they had left in stock, a Gigabyte Aurus X570 Pro Wifi. I'll never use the wifi but who cares it looks decent and has the minimum features I wanted for less than $300. I even got a $20 combo discount. Now I get to wait 3 days for it to come from California, blah...


----------



## purecain (Jul 10, 2019)

mine just arrived, I just posted a pic on another thread... but i'll post it here aswell... I'll include the batch number for you on this thread. just in case it turns out to be a golden example..


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 11, 2019)

I can't believe the company shipped my CPU like this. The only thing missing is the shipping label. No box, no nothing...


----------



## Lorec (Jul 11, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> I can't believe the company shipped my CPU like this. The only thing missing is the shipping label. No box, no nothing...
> 
> View attachment 126586


at least it wasnt international shipping xD


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 11, 2019)

Lorec said:


> at least it wasnt international shipping xD


No, it didn't travel far, but considering how couriers handle things...
I've seen one "kick" boxes with CRT monitors in them down a flight of stairs. Ok, it was a small flight, but even so...


----------



## dgianstefani (Jul 11, 2019)

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/Dvt8LJ Built this.


----------



## ratirt (Jul 11, 2019)

Is there any difference (or maybe significant) between 3700x and 3800x? I was hoping TPU would have them compared.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 11, 2019)

ratirt said:


> Is there any difference (or maybe significant) between 3700x and 3800x? I was hoping TPU would have them compared.


TDP, i.e. the 3800X should boost higher. I guess I'll find out as soon as my other bits turn up...

Interestingly, mine is made in Malaysia and the 3900X pictured above, is made in China.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 11, 2019)

Got a notification from UPS this morning, I thought it would be your package will be delivered today. Nope, Newegg screwed me again. They didn't ship my stuff until after midnight so now what was supposed to be here today isn't coming until tomorrow. So sad, all dressed and ready for the big dance but my date is gonna be really late!


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Jul 11, 2019)

That's unfortunate, man! It'll be worth the wait.


----------



## Bones (Jul 11, 2019)

Zareek said:


> Got a notification from UPS this morning, I thought it would be your package will be delivered today. Nope, Newegg screwed me again. They didn't ship my stuff until after midnight so now what was supposed to be here today isn't coming until tomorrow. So sad, all dressed and ready for the big dance but my date is gonna be really late!


Just hope they don't do like UPS has before with my stuff and probrably will this time around.
Was showing it being due to arrive tomorrow and now it's saying Saturday.... Even though it's at the local UPS hub right now.

They'll send it off for a joyride on another truck to a different UPS hub, then send it back from there so it can't arrive early. My stuff was ordered on the 7th and yet to see any of it so don't feel left out here, I'm in the same boat.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 11, 2019)

ratirt said:


> Is there any difference (or maybe significant) between 3700x and 3800x? I was hoping TPU would have them compared.


I was hoping someone would have a review posted by now. TPU would have been my preference. I just want to see some Handbrake x265 numbers. Doesn't matter now, it's already on the way.

As @TheLostSwede already said TDP is 40 Watts higher. Base clock is faster 3.9Ghz vs 3.6Ghz, max boost is a little higher 4.5Ghz vs 4.4Ghz, doubt we will see that. Based on what has come out so far, I'm guessing 2% faster on average but all core performance should be at least 5% faster considering the base clock is more than 7% faster. That is, if you can keep the thermals in check.



Bones said:


> Just hope they don't do like UPS has before with my stuff and probrably will this time around.
> Shows it being due to arrive tomorrow and now it's saying Saturday.... Even though it's at the local UPS hub right now.
> 
> They'll send it off for a joyride on another truck to a different UPS hub, then send it back from there so it can't arrive early. My stuff was ordered on the 7th and yet to see any of it so don't feel left out here, I'm in the same boat.


I've seen that with Fedex a lot, the package sits in the local hub until the last day. I've seen crap from the next state over sit in a warehouse for a 7 days to hit their 5 business day delivery. UPS is usually better but tracking says it is still in California. It better be on a plane by tonight or my shipping is being refunded! UPS won't deliver it until Monday if they miss tomorrow.


----------



## HTC (Jul 11, 2019)

ratirt said:


> Is there any difference (or maybe significant) between 3700x and 3800x? I was hoping TPU would have them compared.



One has a single chiplet + IO die while the other has 2 chiplets + IO die.

It will be much more likely for the 3800X to OC higher because each chiplet only has 4 cores.


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 11, 2019)

HTC said:


> One has a single chiplet + IO die while the other has 2 chiplets + IO die.
> 
> It will be much more likely for the 3800X to OC higher because each chiplet only has 4 cores.


Do you have any sources that can confirm that ?


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Jul 11, 2019)

Wrong. The 3700X and 3800X both have a single chiplet, while the 3900X and 3950X have a dual chiplet design. There are no quad core chiplets, only six and eight.

The 3800X is the same chip as the 3700X with higher boost clocks and a higher TDP to allow for it. They're identical and most likely (TBC) clock the same.



Bones said:


> Just hope they don't do like UPS has before with my stuff and probrably will this time around.
> Was showing it being due to arrive tomorrow and now it's saying Saturday.... Even though it's at the local UPS hub right now.
> 
> They'll send it off for a joyride on another truck to a different UPS hub, then send it back from there so it can't arrive early. My stuff was ordered on the 7th and yet to see any of it so don't feel left out here, I'm in the same boat.



Been there with them as well... in the local hub, sent from Cleveland area to Cincinnati, and then back up the following day. I've also had one go back to Kentucky before coming back to Cleveland and then getting finally delivered the next day. They're... interesting.


----------



## HTC (Jul 11, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> Wrong. The 3700X and 3800X both have a single chiplet, while the 3900X and 3950X have a dual chiplet design. *There are no quad core chiplets*, only six and eight.
> 
> The 3800X is the same chip as the 3700X with higher boost clocks and a higher TDP to allow for it. They're identical and most likely (TBC) clock the same.



*Looks @ 3200G and 3400G ...

You sure?



Wavetrex said:


> Do you have any sources that can confirm that ?



Only "he who shall not be named" ...

Short of seeing one delided, i can't prove either way.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 11, 2019)

HTC said:


> *Looks @ 3200G and 3400G ...
> 
> You sure?



The 3200G and 3400G are Zen+ based.


----------



## xkm1948 (Jul 11, 2019)

No. Waiting for Threadripper 3rd gen...


----------



## W1zzard (Jul 11, 2019)

I even bought two


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 11, 2019)

@W1zzard can you buy a 3800X and delid it ? 
People are very curious on what's inside...


----------



## W1zzard (Jul 11, 2019)

Wavetrex said:


> @W1zzard can you buy a 3800X and delid it ?
> People are very curious on what's inside...


Sorry, can't waste money like that


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 11, 2019)

Just missing the new case, PSU and cooler...








Only annoying thing is that Captain Aorus seems to have been doing some graffiti on the back of the board...


----------



## Zareek (Jul 11, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Just missing the new case, PSU and cooler...
> 
> View attachment 126618
> View attachment 126619
> ...


Marketing gone wild... I wonder if there are thermal pads under all that armor. If those were $60 cheaper, I would have seriously consider one. I will miss the post codes and on-board power buttons but $360 for a motherboard is too much. I paid about $100 less and I'm still thinking it was a ripoff. When I first got into overclocking and tweaking Abit made terrific motherboards and I paid like $100-120 for a fully loaded motherboard. That was in a time period when a cheap off the shelf computer was about a $1000. How things have changed. Those boards would cost $400-500 these days yet I can buy a whole cheap computer for the cost of my old motherboard and I can put that computer in my pocket too...


----------



## Tatty_One (Jul 11, 2019)

Puts the Asus ROG B450F I will be using to shame lol.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 11, 2019)

Tatty_One said:


> Puts the Asus ROG B450F I will be using to shame lol.


Ha, that board is covered in tattoos, ones that light-up too. Good feature set, nice pricing. I wonder how good the VRMs are...


----------



## Tatty_One (Jul 11, 2019)

Very good, reviews/overclocking suggest it can match the mid to higher end X470 boards and beat quite a few clocking Ryzen 2700X and as I don't need all them cores I will get a 3600X on my next build in a couple of months.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 11, 2019)

Zareek said:


> Marketing gone wild... I wonder if there are thermal pads under all that armor. If those were $60 cheaper, I would have seriously consider one. I will miss the post codes and on-board power buttons but $360 for a motherboard is too much. I paid about $100 less and I'm still thinking it was a ripoff. When I first got into overclocking and tweaking Abit made terrific motherboards and I paid like $100-120 for a fully loaded motherboard. That was in a time period when a cheap off the shelf computer was about a $1000. How things have changed. Those boards would cost $400-500 these days yet I can buy a whole cheap computer for the cost of my old motherboard and I can put that computer in my pocket too...



Ah, Abit, my first motherboard love... 
I've had so many Abit motherboards over the years. Even had the fabled BP6 with a pair of Celeron 300's at 450MHz. I think the second CPU actually never did anything, but hey...

They were way ahead of their time though, as they even got rid of the PS/2 ports at one point, only problem was, you couldn't install Windows XP on those boards, as it didn't detect USB mice in its early iterations.

There are reasons for the increased costs, as we've gone from fairly simple motherboards, to rather complex motherboards these days. Most are also very over-specced, to a degree that you're paying for things you'll never use, much like my second Celeron processor...
I mean, what did you get back then on a high-end board? Crap sound, if any sound at all, no Ethernet for the longest of times and sometimes even then, it was a turd, the add-in card interfaces were quite simple, at least compared to PCIe 4.0, fairly low speed storage interfaces and so on... Ok, it was high-tech back then, but it wasn't as complicated. Also, looking at some board pictures, most boards had 2-3 power phases for the CPU, even on the high-end boards, now you're looking at a minimum of six, unless it's a really crappy board, but a dozen on more on high-end boards. Component quality has increased massively as well, anyone remember the issues MSI had with those crappy capacitors that popped? I think it affected other companies too, but them worse than most. Now you can take a budget board and put a 12-core CPU in it and it'll still work, back then, the board would've blown up.
I also remember my dad buying our first computer, a Mitac 386SX-16, it was around US$2,700 back then, which is around US$4,000 in today's money, not exactly cheap and it can't even compete with an entry level smartphone today. But yes, this "hobby" is getting expensive.


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 11, 2019)

I am not getting Ryzen 3000 right now as i am waiting for Ryzen 9 3950X to come out and i need to save up some more money also. But after taken a look ar the latest leak with Intels CPU´s i am still more into ryzen this time around. But i think i can now tell what hardware i am planning to get after carefully making desisions.

And the hardware will be:
AMD Ryzen 9 3950X cooled by an Noctua NH-D15 SE-AM4 cpu cooler and i will use thermal grizzly kryonaut cooling paste. I am not a fan of having water inside my pc.
ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Hero X570 motherboard
Memory will be one of these 3 kits. All from G.skill 16 GB dual channel an rated at 3600 MHz and timings at CL14-15-15-35 1.40V. here are links for those that might want them aswell. I chose these for there low timings as ryzen seems to love low timings as well.








						- QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
					

Check to see if your motherboard model is on the QVL for . .




					www.gskill.com
				











						F4-3600C14D-16GTRGB - Specification - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
					

Trident Z Royal DDR4-3600 CL14-15-15-35 1.45V 16GB (2x8GB)




					www.gskill.com
				











						F4-3600C14D-16GTRSB - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
					

Trident Z Royal DDR4-3600 CL14-15-15-35 1.45V 16GB (2x8GB) Trident Z Royal is the latest addition to the Trident Z flagship family and features a crown jewel design. Meticulously crafted to display just the right amount of light refraction, the patented crystalline light bar scatters the RGB...




					www.gskill.com
				




Besides that i will get a PCIe gen 4 NVMe m.2 SSD for my OS properly a 500 GB or so. maybe Samsung 980 EVO/PRO when they come some time in the future.
A used GTX 1080 TI more for some sli fun.
And a thermaltake toughpower 1200 watt PSU as my old PSU is still working perfect, but its 10 years old now and with the ekstra load from a ekstra 1080 TI. I take no chances so i better replace it before it burns out it self.
It will all be put in to my old case for now and reuse the rest of my old hardware for now. later put it all over in a new case. But for that i need to save up more money again. Its not a cheap upgrade this one you know.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 11, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Ah, Abit, my first motherboard love...
> I've had so many Abit motherboards over the years. Even had the fabled BP6 with a pair of Celeron 300's at 450MHz. I think the second CPU actually never did anything, but hey...
> 
> They were way ahead of their time though, as they even got rid of the PS/2 ports at one point, only problem was, you couldn't install Windows XP on those boards, as it didn't detect USB mice in its early iterations.
> ...


You are right, no integrated audio or LAN but look at the price difference between the entry boards and the high-end stuff. 10x or more now back then maybe double. I think my first Abit board was a BF6 with the slot 1 Celeron 300, OCed the Celeron to 450 like clockwork. Good times, I bought my first PC used from a High School friend who was an exchange student from South Korea. It was an AMD 386DX40 with a ULSI 387DX40 math co-processor. 8MB of RAM, 120MB IDE boot and 210MB IDE secondary drive, a 2x CD-ROM that attached to a Creative sound card. It ran MS-DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.11, it was a steal at $500. I worked a lot hours paying that off. It was worth every penny too. He used the money towards paying his parents back for the Dell 486DX66 he bought for like $2500. The entry level is cheaper now but you easily spend as much or more than they did back then.


----------



## the54thvoid (Jul 11, 2019)

Erm... what? I checked the BIOS lists for my x370 and it doesn't support 3900x. It lists 3700x and 3800x as the top cpu support. Not a bad thing as I was looking at a 3800x anyway.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 11, 2019)

Tatty_One said:


> I may well give one a try on my next build, probably in the Autumn, I don't really need masses of cores/threads as I only do a bit of light gaming and some MS Office so I will probably go for the 3600X with it's 6 core 12 thread setup coupled with a X470 board and a RAM upgrade, as much because it's been so long since I had an AMD CPU (13 years) and it's a lot more worthwhile now.



I play Destiny 2, and unfortunately AMD still does not have a fix for that game working on Ryzen CPU's... so I have to stick to Intel for now >.>  also curious how many games from 10+ years ago don't work on Ryzen... Destiny 2 probably isn't the only one, just the only modern one. So eh... not risking AMD just yet.


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 11, 2019)

the54thvoid said:


> Erm... what? I checked the BIOS lists for my x370 and it doesn't support 3900x. It lists 3700x and 3800x as the top cpu support. Not a bad thing as I was looking at a 3800x anyway.



I would think the boards VRM is not geared for the 3900X load on the VRM and by that it can not support it.



Wavetrex said:


> @W1zzard can you buy a 3800X and delid it ?
> People are very curious on what's inside...



Well its a Ryzen 5 3600, but i will think it has the same inside as the 3800X.


----------



## advanced3 (Jul 11, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I play Destiny 2, and unfortunately AMD still does not have a fix for that game working on Ryzen CPU's... so I have to stick to Intel for now >.>  also curious how many games from 10+ years ago don't work on Ryzen... Destiny 2 probably isn't the only one, just the only modern one. So eh... not risking AMD just yet.



Im sure all will be fine soon, its not AMD its Bungie, they're working on a patch for it.


----------



## theonek (Jul 11, 2019)

Jees, new cpu's and mobos are so expensive, AMD forgot themselves... There are mobos like 800eur and up and a 8c/16t cpu is around 500eur, what a shame though.... apperentely will skip this generation, cause gaming performance is similar to the last one...


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 11, 2019)

For those that have a Ryzen 3000 series, it's suggested by AMD to use CPU-Z for observing the last known idle voltage of a core before it entered the cc6 state. The alternative is Ryzen Master will show you the clock speed, and idle voltage when a core is in the cc6 state.


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbls9g


----------



## king of swag187 (Jul 12, 2019)

Nope, looks interesting but no point in me downgrading from my 8700K. I will be watching 4th gen


----------



## HTC (Jul 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> The 3200G and 3400G are Zen+ based.



Something like this should also clear any and all doubts:


__
		https://flic.kr/p/2gwqsh4

The above images are 100% totally AWESOME!!!!!


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 12, 2019)

HTC said:


> Something like this should also clear any and all doubts:
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Where did the x-ray photo come from?


----------



## HTC (Jul 12, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Where did the x-ray photo come from?



Dunno: spotted it 1st in this Anandtech forum's post.

If you click the image, you get to scale it up quite a bit. There are also other such images of non Zen 2 CPUs. Regardless, these images are completely AWESOME.

That particular image is of a 3600, according to the description.

EDIT

Save the biggest image to disk (6 MB) and scale it up: awesome details, such as the chiplet bit below:


----------



## trickson (Jul 12, 2019)

You know what really angers me? 
I just JUST built 2 BRAND NEW RYZEN systems, Or I though they were! I have 2 Ryzens that now are OLD! 
I can not tell you how ANGRY this makes me. To see that I could have got a NEW Ryzen 9 instead of the Ryzen 7 and 3 Just INFURIATES ME!


----------



## Zareek (Jul 12, 2019)

AMD is paying for the rushed launch, a few minors bugs are popping up.


biffzinker said:


> Where did the x-ray photo come from?


Ground and polished... The source is talking about the I/O die polishing being better than the core die. Still awesome...


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 12, 2019)

trickson said:


> You know what really angers me?
> I just JUST built 2 BRAND NEW RYZEN systems, Or I though they were! I have 2 Ryzens that now are OLD!
> I can not tell you how ANGRY this makes me. To see that I could have got a NEW Ryzen 9 instead of the Ryzen 7 and 3 Just INFURIATES ME!


It happens when buying PC hardware. Should I get angry with Nvidia for coming out with the RTX 2060 Super when I just purchased a 2060?


----------



## robot zombie (Jul 12, 2019)

trickson said:


> You know what really angers me?
> I just JUST built 2 BRAND NEW RYZEN systems, Or I though they were! I have 2 Ryzens that now are OLD!
> I can not tell you how ANGRY this makes me. To see that I could have got a NEW Ryzen 9 instead of the Ryzen 7 and 3 Just INFURIATES ME!


I get the frustration, but then I ask myself if I was ever unhappy with my setup before Ryzen 3 came out... you know what I mean? Release cycles are short, but a good CPU can still serve you very well for a very long time. I know for me, unless I drastically change resolution or decide I want more than 100fps, I could reasonably get at least 4-5 years out of my 2600. CPUs can hold up for a long time. Demands don't shoot-up by crazy amounts within half of a decade like GPUs have. Most other applications don't undergo drastic resource shifts like that. So unless you're now looking at a more demanding application that you wouldn't have been considering when you first purchased the CPU, it's not going to suddenly be obsolete to you just because there's an improved version out now. And even if it was the case that your demands went up prompting better hardware, you couldn't have known you would need that performance, anyway. Regardless of whether or not the new CPU had dropped as the option for that after the fact, you'd still be in the same situation... you'd just be looking at different options.

I mean, think about cars. New models every year. Is your 2018 car now old compared to the 2019 one? It has depreciated in value a bit, but not that much, as many people will _still_ buy them over the newest one. It's kind of like that with components, too. They're always a little bit better for a little better value. It's never a 'gotta-have' change. To get a significant change or increase in value, you have to go up a tier at least. Sometimes several. That goes to show what the difference between them *really* is from a practicality standpoint. Not significant to the outcome, basically. Whether you bought 'that' then or 'this' now...

On principle it is super-frustrating, but when the reality shakes down, it's not even a thing. Your money didn't retroactively become worth a whole lot less. The new hype doesn't diminish the stature of the old hype. The new hype isn't for no reason but then, it's also just that. The new hype. Happens all of the time. Zen+ is still as significant and relevant to users now as it always was, though.

When it's time to buy (whatever the reason may be for why you're no longer waiting,) the best you can do is buy the best option out of what options are available at the time of purchase. There are always better things coming. Sometimes you can wait, but you're missing out if you sit on something right in front of you that's perfect for your needs right then when the value is good, there is an immediately-significant use-case, and the money is there. For me, as long as that's where I'm at when I buy any upgrade or build a new machine, there is no regret when I miss what comes next. I look back and think "It's not like that was a mistake." It's an easy decision. I still at least got what I needed when I needed it.

The only two ways to get around it are to wait or to buy outside of your price bracket. Neither of which are sensible options when you need something right then or will soon.

You could also think about it this way... with things going so far that they have you feeling burned on your recent purchase of what came before it, think of how much better the new equivalent to what's there now will be when you actually need an upgrade. That's a persistent benefit of things moving forward consistently. It stacks, whether you buy into every iteration or not.

Most people would consider it silly to swap-out so soon just for the sake of something new. That says something. Sometimes I think that's part of what makes it frustrating. Because somewhere in your head you always know it doesn't make sense to switch anyway. But you still wish you had the betterest one... it's just the human brain fucking with itself. At the end of the day, when the time come that you actually _need_ better equipment, it will be available to you then. You actually do still get your money's worth, just like the people who adopted it early. It's just harder to see it that way when you're distracted by new and shiny things.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 12, 2019)

@trickson 
There is one other option, take a small hit on what you paid for last years Ryzen by selling it, and put that money towards a new Ryzen 3000 series.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Jul 12, 2019)

Ryzen 3000 has been in the news for months and known to be released on 7/7 for equally as long. You can’t tell me that you never saw anything on them at all if you ‘just’ built the systems.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 12, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I play Destiny 2, and unfortunately AMD still does not have a fix for that game working on Ryzen CPU's... so I have to stick to Intel for now >.>  also curious how many games from 10+ years ago don't work on Ryzen... Destiny 2 probably isn't the only one, just the only modern one. So eh... not risking AMD just yet.


Works fine on my Ryzen 1700, so it must be something specific to Zen 2.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Works fine on my Ryzen 1700, so it must be something specific to Zen 2.



its 3000 series only, Bungie confirmed it 5 days ago but still have not been able to find a fix for it on 3000 for some odd reason. will be scary if they say it can not be fixed...


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 12, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> also curious how many games from 10+ years ago don't work on Ryzen


No issues with older games on a Ryzen 5 2600X I've played yet. Getting an older game to play nice with Windows 10 in compatibility mode is the most trouble I usually have.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 12, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> No issues with older games on a Ryzen 5 2600X I've played yet. Getting an older game to play nice with Windows 10 in compatibility mode is the most trouble I usually have.



ryzen 3000 is a new beast, Destiny 2 also works with odler ryzen cpu's.  but not 3000 and no fix in sight. there has to be others out their in the wild that no one has discovered.  i doubt anyone plays 10k plus games and reports habits to sites like this/reddit, etc.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 12, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> ryzen 3000 is a new beast, Destiny 2 also works with odler ryzen cpu's.  but not 3000 and no fix in sight. there has to be others out their in the wild that no one has discovered.  i doubt anyone plays 10k plus games and reports habits to sites like this/reddit, etc.


This may take a week or two to hash out. Never is seriously doubtful. As far as I know it would be a first for AMD to have a program that doesn't run on their chips. Cyrix had many issues with their architecture not running certain programs back in the day.


----------



## HTC (Jul 12, 2019)

HTC said:


> One has a single chiplet + IO die while the other has 2 chiplets + IO die.
> 
> It will be much more likely for the 3800X to OC higher because each chiplet only has 4 cores.



*This info is wrong.* Apparently, Robert Hallock (SP????) from AMD has posted on Reddit saying only 3900X and 3950X have two chiplets.

@TheMadDutchDude was correct, and i apologise for my wrong info.

Can't seem to locate that Reddit post: not being a Reddit user sure doesn't help


----------



## trickson (Jul 12, 2019)

All I know is I am now again jealous of the new offerings as they are really giving it to Intel! Not as much as my older zen CPU's are but far better! 
GO team RED! 
But buying computers and there parts is like buying a car the second it's leave the lot it's worthless than HALF what you paid. I guess I could sell my CPU's for $150.00 each but I probably would only be able to manage at best $125 so it's hardly worth selling them.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Jul 12, 2019)

You have the 1700X, right? I've seen them go for $80 used. You used to be able to buy the 1600 brand new for $80, but they finally ran out.

On that note: I've also seen a 1950X go for $180. I wish I had gotten that... just because!


----------



## trickson (Jul 12, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> You have the 1700X, right? I've seen them go for $80 used. You used to be able to buy the 1600 brand new for $80, but they finally ran out.


RIGHT! Now it is WORTHLESS! Amazing how that works.
So then I would be lucky to get $25 bucks for the things. AMAZING!
Like I said it is like buying a car once it leave the lot it's GAME OVER!

I just bought 2 new vehicals too, One that cost for me 50K! Now what do you suppose it's worth now? That's RIGHT 25K! Half! And it's a fing 2018 Dodge 4X4!


----------



## phanbuey (Jul 12, 2019)

trickson said:


> RIGHT! Now it is WORTHLESS! Amazing how that works.
> So then I would be lucky to get $25 bucks for the things. AMAZING!
> Like I said it is like buying a car once it leave the lot it's GAME OVER!
> 
> I just bought 2 new vehicals too, One that cost for me 50K! Now what do you suppose it's worth now? That's RIGHT 25K! Half! And it's a fing 2018 Dodge 4X4!



This is why even though I have a ryzen db rig, and am wearing a ryzen hat right now, I went with the i7 7820x 2 years ago for my main home/work rig.  I saw myself going 1700 -2700 - 3700x and blowing $700 on CPU's in the process.

Overclocked @ 4.65Ghz 24/7 it's about the speed (a little slower) than a 3700X but virtually identical in games when tweaked, and it's a 2 year old chip that's been running that the whole time - I got for $650 that still let me have 4 dimms of 32GB of fast ram for work.

Im probably just going to pick up a 12 core Cascade Lake X when it releases in the next few months and drop it into this DB and get $200 or something for the delidded 7820x


----------



## Zareek (Jul 13, 2019)

Gentlemen, start your engines!!!


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 13, 2019)

I still don't know the prices (here) yet, so, not for now.


----------



## Vario (Jul 13, 2019)

trickson said:


> You know what really angers me?
> I just JUST built 2 BRAND NEW RYZEN systems, Or I though they were! I have 2 Ryzens that now are OLD!
> I can not tell you how ANGRY this makes me. To see that I could have got a NEW Ryzen 9 instead of the Ryzen 7 and 3 Just INFURIATES ME!


Didn't you know that Zen 2 was about to release?


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 13, 2019)

Vario said:


> Didn't you know that Zen 2 was about to release?


Wait until he looks at the 3950X specs.


----------



## HTC (Jul 13, 2019)

HTC said:


> *This info is wrong.* Apparently, *Robert Hallock (SP????) from AMD has posted on Reddit* saying only 3900X and 3950X have two chiplets.
> 
> *Can't seem to locate that Reddit post*: not being a Reddit user sure doesn't help



Here's the post in question: someone from another forum located it for me.

In much better news, here are even better pics of Ryzen 3600:

 

These are merely thumbs of the "large version" of the pics: suggest downloading the *original* (VERY big images, with 8+ MB each) and scale those up for even better details.

Here's the site to download the pics from.

Here's some more images (not just Ryzen) from the same dude: https://www.flickr.com/photos/130561288@N04/


----------



## gasolina (Jul 13, 2019)

i wonder if the 3600 will do fine for 2560x1440 144hz or 3200x1800 144hz with a pair of 2080ti .......will try to oc it with my x370 to 4.4 though......my 1700x can't handle these 2 gpus at 1440p a little better at 3200.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 14, 2019)

And it's built...
Still need to tweak things a bit, it doesn't seem to boost the way it should though, as I've not seen core clocks over 4.4GHz...
RAM doesn't want to run with XMP enabled, so going to have to tweak that manually for now.
Still not happy with the case...








						AMD Ryzen 7 3800X @ 4224.02 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[3l0g5x] Validated Dump by OVERLORD-MK-MX (2019-07-14 14:13:22) - MB: Gigabyte X570 AORUS MASTER - RAM: 16384 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				
















For some reason 3DMark won't let me submit the result online...


----------



## frostybe3r (Jul 14, 2019)

Yes.



http://imgur.com/KKMVmAT




http://imgur.com/7YIgPJS




http://imgur.com/QKjT40Q


----------



## Deleted member 178884 (Jul 14, 2019)

No, But I got a X299 Omega 2 days ago now


----------



## trog100 (Jul 14, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> And it's built...
> Still need to tweak things a bit, it doesn't seem to boost the way it should though, as I've not seen core clocks over 4.4GHz...
> RAM doesn't want to run with XMP enabled, so going to have to tweak that manually for now.
> Still not happy with the case...
> ...




a comparison with my air cooled 9900k at 4.8.. very similar..









						Intel Core i9 9900K @ 4801.15 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[zne8lr] Validated Dump by Anonymous (2019-07-14 12:16:51) - MB: Asus ROG STRIX Z370-F GAMING - RAM: 32768 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				




trog


----------



## Anzlew (Jul 14, 2019)

Just yesterday i've installed a Ryzen 7 3700x on my MSI b350 Tomahawk Arctic and after  couple of tests and 3 hours od playing everything looks fine. Today i have rendered an image in 3ds Max and the CPU and Vrm temps was max 56 and 51 deg C . The whole process took around 12min. I am very happy with this upgrade. Good work AMD.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 14, 2019)

trog100 said:


> a comparison with my air cooled 9900k at 4.8.. very similar..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Managed to improve things slightly. It doesn't seem to want to boost a whole heap though, so not sure it was worth it over a 3700X...








						AMD Ryzen 7 3800X @ 4200.52 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[ztiub6] Validated Dump by OVERLORD-MK-MX (2019-07-14 16:01:57) - MB: Gigabyte X570 AORUS MASTER - RAM: 16384 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				









						Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. X570 AORUS MASTER  - Geekbench Browser
					

Benchmark results for a Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. X570 AORUS MASTER with an AMD Ryzen 7 3800X processor.



					browser.geekbench.com
				




*Edit:* The memory timing of my RAM and what this CPU will run or won't run is really rather odd to say the least...


----------



## Xx__Just_The_Tip_UwU__xX (Jul 14, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Managed to improve things slightly. It doesn't seem to want to boost a whole heap though, so not sure it was worth it over a 3700X...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The memory latency on Zen 2 looks pretty bad. Would have thought the chips only using 1 chiplet would do better in that regard... I get around 63ns running my 2700X with 32gb 3200 MHz CL14-14-14-28


----------



## frostybe3r (Jul 14, 2019)

Here's mine.



http://imgur.com/HdTQr7Y


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 14, 2019)

Xx__Just_The_Tip_UwU__xX said:


> The memory latency on Zen 2 looks pretty bad. Would have thought the chips only using 1 chiplet would do better in that regard... I get around 63ns running my 2700X with 32gb 3200 MHz CL14-14-14-28


Well, I don't have the very best RAM either...
Point proven by the post above.



frostybe3r said:


> Here's mine.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/HdTQr7Y


That's extremely good. Care to share board and RAM?


----------



## Xx__Just_The_Tip_UwU__xX (Jul 14, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Well, I don't have the very best RAM either...
> Point proven by the post above.
> 
> 
> ...


Thought your ram clock was quite decent.


----------



## frostybe3r (Jul 14, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Well, I don't have the very best RAM either...
> Point proven by the post above.
> 
> 
> ...


8Pack Xtreem/Crosshair VIII Formula.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 14, 2019)

frostybe3r said:


> 8Pack Xtreem/Crosshair VIII Formula.


So very, very, very hand picked RAM. Makes sense.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 14, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> RAM doesn't want to run with XMP enabled, so going to have to tweak that manually for now.



Same deal here, XMP a no go but I was able to manually tweak the RAM to slightly better than XMP settings with extra voltage(1.5VDDR). My chip has boosted to 4.55Ghz according HWiNFO64 and it's maintained 4.25Ghz all cores running Handbrake x265 for about 24 hours now. That doesn't really fully load the cores like a Prime95 or anything. I think it's AVX based on the x265 documentation. Runs anywhere from 50 to 100% faster than my 1700x ran it. I gotta queue a head to head to verify. I figure it's a nice burn-in that has some use to it, 65.7C average so far.


----------



## Xzibit (Jul 14, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Still not happy with the case...



That's the 275Q right ?.. I was going to get that because I'm not a fan of PSU shrouds but when i saw it in person the front intake gap was too thin.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 15, 2019)

Not blow away by the 3800X, at least not compared to the 3700X.
This was during a run of Prime 95 and although it runs nice and cool for what it is and in this case seemingly boosts well within what should be expected with all cores loaded, but I can't get it to boost to even 4.4GHz when loading a single core??
It's also quite obvious that even given a free power budget, the CPU simply doesn't use it, regardless of cooling, which makes the video AMD posted a little while ago, pure BS.
In fact, I'm within AMD's power budget for the 65W TDP parts, whereas this is supposed to be a 105W TDP part.
I have a feeling that they might end up with a class action law suit in the US over this, as they seemingly over promised and under delivered when it comes to the boost clocks.
I'm not going to say I feel cheated, but I would say as much as AMD either need to sort out whatever it is that prevents these chips from boosting properly, or simply stop offering the 3800X as it offers so little extra performance over the 3700X that it's just silly.
No wonder they didn't seed any 3800X parts to reviewers.

*Edit:* Added a screenshot with the top single core boost I can get. This is just CPU-Z stressing a single core. I get same boosts with two cores, but four or more, it's stuck at 4.3GHz.
Pretty much the same behaviour as the 3700X as tested by @W1zzard https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-3700x/20.html
I guess I have gained an extra 100MHz on all core boost, but he was using the boxed cooler and I'm no a 280mm AIO liquid cooler...









Tweaked my RAM settings a smidgen more as well, but this is as far as I can push it, while still having a stable system.
Admittedly "cheap" RAM, but not too bad.





Ok, a bit more tinkering got me to consistent 4,400MHz boosts, but that's a hard ceiling right now.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 15, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Not blow away by the 3800X, at least not compared to the 3700X.
> This was during a run of Prime 95 and although it runs nice and cool for what it is and in this case seemingly boosts well within what should be expected with all cores loaded, but I can't get it to boost to even 4.4GHz when loading a single core??
> It's also quite obvious that even given a free power budget, the CPU simply doesn't use it, regardless of cooling, which makes the video AMD posted a little while ago, pure BS.
> In fact, I'm within AMD's power budget for the 65W TDP parts, whereas this is supposed to be a 105W TDP part.
> ...



Based on most people's experiences, I'm theorizing they haven't been able to bin enough chips to fill this product sku. I bet their marketing team was directed to put the spotlight on the 3700X. No one seems to be even considering the 3800X. 

I have been able to hit 4.5 and 4.55 but only for short bursts. The biggest issue is the Windows scheduler is bouncing the threads from core to core. It seems like each core has a different max clock too. By manually assigning a single Prime 95 thread to my starred core and setting high priority. I was able to hit 4.5Ghz but I couldn't get a screen of it. The best I was able to screen is this 4.498Ghz. For some reason the clock speed changes a lot more at lower thread priorities and it seems any other thread running including Ryzen Master will kick down the clock by 500Mhz or more. The 4498 seen here ran for maybe 30 seconds before changing to 4450 then back up slowly to 4480 for another 30 seconds. This is all stock except RAM, I had to manually tweak the RAM to where it is. This Corsair kit sucks, I got it originally when I got the Ryzen 1700X and on that it never ran stable beyond 2933. Corsair XMP = worthless!


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 15, 2019)

Zareek said:


> Based on most people's experiences, I'm theorizing they haven't been able to bin enough chips to fill this product sku. I bet their marketing team was directed to put the spotlight on the 3700X. No one seems to be even considering the 3800X.
> 
> I have been able to hit 4.5 and 4.55 but only for short bursts. The biggest issue is the Windows scheduler is bouncing the threads from core to core. It seems like each core has a different max clock too. By manually assigning a single Prime 95 thread to my starred core and setting high priority. I was able to hit 4.5Ghz but I couldn't get a screen of it. The best I was able to screen is this 4.498Ghz. For some reason the clock speed changes a lot more at lower thread priorities and it seems any other thread running including Ryzen Master will kick down the clock by 500Mhz or more. The 4498 seen here ran for maybe 30 seconds before changing to 4450 then back up slowly to 4480 for another 30 seconds. This is all stock except RAM, I had to manually tweak the RAM to where it is. This Corsair kit sucks, I got it originally when I got the Ryzen 1700X and on that it never ran stable beyond 2933. Corsair XMP = worthless!
> 
> View attachment 126916


Look at that, better boost clock than promised. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu....!!
I can't get 1MHz over 4.4GHz and I think I have tinkered with just about every related setting in the UEFI.

Agree on the Corsair RAM, although I got mine to 3066 in the end, but anything faster ended in BSOD after a little while. LPX I presume?

Yeah, that's not working for me at all. Set the affinity, still using at least two cores, but apparently even more...


----------



## Zareek (Jul 15, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Look at that, better boost clock than promised. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu....!!
> I can't get 1MHz over 4.4GHz and I think I have tinkered with just about every related setting in the UEFI.
> 
> Agree on the Corsair RAM, although I got mine to 3066 in the end, but anything faster ended in BSOD after a little while. LPX I presume?


Yes LPX, on their approved list for Ryzen 3000 series too. I will be switching the 3800X to the G.Skill Flare X kit from the 1700X when it goes in the case. Not to rub it in but I'm getting those clocks on the included Wraith Prism/stock TIM. I'm a little worried the results might get worse going to the H60 now. We will find out Wednesday when the Kyronaut gets here...


----------



## P4-630 (Jul 15, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1150563418128056320
But, just one core.









						TSAIK`s CPU Frequency score: 5911.3 mhz with a Ryzen 7 3800X
					

The Ryzen 7 3800X @ 5911.3MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the CPU Frequency benchmark. TSAIKranks #null worldwide and #3 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




					hwbot.org


----------



## advanced3 (Jul 15, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Look at that, better boost clock than promised. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu....!!
> I can't get 1MHz over 4.4GHz and I think I have tinkered with just about every related setting in the UEFI.
> 
> Agree on the Corsair RAM, although I got mine to 3066 in the end, but anything faster ended in BSOD after a little while. LPX I presume?
> ...


 
I have never seen my 3700x boost to 4.4....It seems to max out at 4.325


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 15, 2019)

Zareek said:


> Yes LPX, on their approved list for Ryzen 3000 series too. I will be switching the 3800X to the G.Skill Flare X kit from the 1700X when it goes in the case. Not to rub it in but I'm getting those clocks on the included Wraith Prism/stock TIM. I'm a little worried the results might get worse going to the H60 now. We will find out Wednesday when the Kyronaut gets here...



Yeah, same RAM then, but mine doesn't seem to work half as well as yours.

Anything you tweaked in the UEFI?



advanced3 said:


> I have never seen my 3700x boost to 4.4....It seems to max out at 4.325


Yeah, I was stuck at 4.375 for the longest of times. Not quite sure what changed.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 15, 2019)

P4-630 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1150563418128056320
> But, just one core.
> 
> 
> ...


LN2 is like drag racing, I'd rather watch F1. That being said impressive


TheLostSwede said:


> Yeah, same RAM then, but mine doesn't seem to work half as well as yours.
> 
> Anything you tweaked in the UEFI?
> 
> ...


Nothing all stock. I updated to the latest F4d bios. I also have a POS graphics card it in it, I seriously doubt that brings any advantage.



TheLostSwede said:


> Look at that, better boost clock than promised. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu....!!
> I can't get 1MHz over 4.4GHz and I think I have tinkered with just about every related setting in the UEFI.
> 
> Agree on the Corsair RAM, although I got mine to 3066 in the end, but anything faster ended in BSOD after a little while. LPX I presume?
> ...



Something else seems to grabbing CPU time. Also, have you tried re-seating the block/pump(air pocket maybe)? I bet you can hit higher clocks if you can do two things. Find out what is still grabbing CPU time from the other cores and get the thermals under 70C.

All core I will get 4.3Ghz for 30 seconds then it backs off to 4.26 and will hold there for 15 minutes but then the cooler starts loosing the fight and it will back down to 4.167Ghz and hold at around 80C. It seems to pull back when the temperature is over 70C and it is trying to set the best clock to hold 80C.


----------



## robot zombie (Jul 15, 2019)

I've been blowing my build fundage on other stuff. I just bought a new camera... which I'll soon be buying another lens for. Next I'm probably gonna swing $800 on a new guitar...

Money stacks quick for me these days... chances are I'll wind up with a 3700x in a new 570 build by winter... full custom loop - my first one. But for the next several years I feel my 2600 x370 build will be my go-to machine. If I'm honest with myself my current build is so perfect for me I struggle to accept it at times.

But I kinda wanna do another just to do it. Go into excess just to have something to play with. I avoid fucking with the build in my specs because of how well it works for me. Zen+ hexacores are bangin chips! But I really miss having something to build up and improve on.

My main curiosity is how high end ryzen will handle 4k. 2600 build is great for 1080p in the bedroom... like it is just so efficient for 60hz/1080p gaming while also being a snappy multitasker. Very rare that it goes over 50w OCd to 4ghz all core. But it would sure be awesome to have a crazy Ryzen centerpiece build for gaming on the 4k TV in the living room. Obviously I could just go Intel but that's no fun  Fwiw I'd like to have it crunch on downtime, too.

But I guess either way I have to wait to do that. Number one it needs time in the wild for limitations to be discovered and bugs worked out. Not to mention I'm not super big on 4k GPU options right now.

So no shiny new Ryzen for me for now.


----------



## frostybe3r (Jul 15, 2019)

http://imgur.com/ZgzOCot


----------



## Zareek (Jul 15, 2019)

frostybe3r said:


> http://imgur.com/ZgzOCot


That board is so sweet! The day I ever spend that much on a motherboard, I'll order myself a casket at the same time because my wife will murder me.


----------



## GamerGuy (Jul 15, 2019)

Nice! But pardon my noobishness, what board is that?


----------



## Nordic (Jul 15, 2019)

I got a 3900x coming in the mail. I had to buy it from best buy because they actually had some in stock at msrp.


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 15, 2019)

GamerGuy said:


> Nice! But pardon my noobishness, what board is that?



I'f you are refuring to the board frostybe3r have. That will be asus rog crosshair viii formula.









						ROG Crosshair VIII Formula | ROG Crosshair | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
					

ROG Crosshair VIII Formula



					www.asus.com


----------



## Zareek (Jul 15, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> I'f you are refuring to the board frostybe3r have. That will be asus rog crosshair viii formula.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, $700 in the US! I paid less for my motherboard and 3800X!


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 16, 2019)

Zareek said:


> Yup, $700 in the US! I paid less for my motherboard and 3800X!



Yeah is not a cheap board, that's for sure. That's why i my self will be getting asus rog crosshair viii hero in sted. Still exspensive but more affordable still.


----------



## frostybe3r (Jul 16, 2019)

£589 in UK vs £791 for Aorus Xtreme.


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 16, 2019)

frostybe3r said:


> £589 in UK vs £791 for Aorus Xtreme.



Yeah X570 top boards are stupid exspensive. Here are prices in Denmark from the top trio. This is Dkr. Valuta


----------



## GamerGuy (Jul 16, 2019)

I was looking at the Taichi, but the Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Formula is on my crosshair now (see what I just did?). Going overboard spec'ing out my 3900X build, already bought a 2TB SSD (for games) and in talks with a guy about snagging an 8TB Enterprise SSD, not cheap hence my thing of mid level X570 mobos.....you guys are so poisonous.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 16, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> Yeah X570 top boards are stupid exspensive. Here are prices in Denmark from the top trio. This is Dkr. Valuta
> 
> View attachment 126942


Valuta = currency in English


----------



## frostybe3r (Jul 16, 2019)

The X570 Gigabyte may have the most overkill specs but they're completely unnecessary and you will never hit even half the VRM load on LN2, Asus just has a better bios...


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 16, 2019)

frostybe3r said:


> The X570 Gigabyte may have the most overkill specs but they're completely unnecessary and you will never hit even half the VRM load on LN2, Asus just has a better bios...



Well, at least no-one can complain about the VRM's getting hot...

As for the UEFI, Gigabyte has improved a lot with these new boards, I used to detest their UEFI layout and colours, but now it has a much better layout, it doesn't look like a turd and it's responsive when in use. Is it as good as the one on my old Asus board, maybe not quite, but it's very close now.

Ok, managed to get my RAM to run stable with a few more tweaks, it's just time consuming, but this is as good as it's really going to get, as if I change that 19 to 18, the system craps out.
Not too bad for $89 RAM.





Finally 3DMark is accepting my results. Not going to be super fast due to my card.








						I scored 7 906 in Time Spy
					

AMD Ryzen 7 3800X, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




					www.3dmark.com
				












						I scored 20 121 in Fire Strike
					

AMD Ryzen 7 3800X, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




					www.3dmark.com


----------



## IceScreamer (Jul 16, 2019)

I'm mostly seeing X570 boards here. Did any of you by chance get a B450 board with the new Ryzen, preferably MSI B450 Tomahawk?

A friend ordered an R5 3600 and the Tomahawk, parts did not arrive yet but I saw some major issues on the forums and such with MSI B450 boards, something to do with BIOS and being unable to boot 50% of the time.

So I wondered if any of you had any issues?


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 16, 2019)

@TheLostSwede
3DMark really sucks for Ryzen, be it 1000, 2000, 3000...

My old overclocked Broadwell-E CPU which is 4 years and 14 days old (release date) still beats the brand new 3800X soundly in graphics tests with similar GPU.








						Result
					






					www.3dmark.com
				











						Result
					






					www.3dmark.com


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 16, 2019)

Wavetrex said:


> @TheLostSwede
> 3DMark really sucks for Ryzen, be it 1000, 2000, 3000...
> 
> My old overclocked Broadwell-E CPU which is 4 years and 14 days old (release date) still beats the brand new 3800X soundly in graphics tests with similar GPU.
> ...



Your GPU is clocked higher than mine though, I got one of the first gen "slow" ones on the cheap... 

That Broadwell-E was a very expensive chip at the time though.


----------



## MrGRiMv25 (Jul 16, 2019)

Would've loved to have had a new Ryzen 3xxx but I R out of money after paying the bills this month... I plan on getting the 3800/x depending on how many hours I actually do next month. Still keeping the old Xeons about going but do want one of the new AMD chips to play with.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jul 16, 2019)

This one is pretty much done. I don't plan on doing any OC on it so here's a stock cinebench R20 run.









The Aorus Master is super easy to work with and although I still prefer the Asus bios the new Gigabyte layout is super easy and much better than their previous one.

My wife chose the color scheme I guess she likes the Superman colors.


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 17, 2019)

3700X on its way... !
Hopefully it arrives before the end of the week.

Dang Europe is slow on these releases...





(And expensive, but nothing I can do about it...)


----------



## MrGRiMv25 (Jul 17, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Well, at least no-one can complain about the VRM's getting hot...
> 
> As for the UEFI, Gigabyte has improved a lot with these new boards, I used to detest their UEFI layout and colours, but now it has a much better layout, it doesn't look like a turd and it's responsive when in use. Is it as good as the one on my old Asus board, maybe not quite, but it's very close now.
> 
> ...



It's weird how the IO die and CCX's work this time around, the 3900X with its two CCX's gets double the write B/W as it can write two 16 byte chunks at once, it doesn't make much of an impact to most of us as reads are more important than writes but for datacenters or "big data" where writes are just as important, if not more, (aside from EPYC) they'd need the 3900X.


----------



## Xzibit (Jul 17, 2019)

Wavetrex said:


> 3700X on it's way... !
> Hopefully it arrives before the end of the week.
> 
> Dang Europe is slow on these releases...
> ...



I just put mine together been looking at it for a few days in the corner. First AMD CPU ever!!! 3700X, X570 w/ 16GB of 3600 CL16

Just browsing the web seeing if there is any interesting guides out there for BIOSes.


----------



## GamerGuy (Jul 17, 2019)

I had expressed interest in the RoG board, but I think I'll be getting the Aorus Extreme due to its extensive use of heatpipes and absence of active fan....


----------



## mstenholm (Jul 17, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> I just put mine together been looking at it for a few days in the corner. First AMD CPU ever!!! 3700X, X570 w/ 16GB of 3600 CL16
> 
> Just browsing the web seeing if there is any interesting guides out there for BIOSes.


Same here. The loop have been tested and is ready but my local suplier just changed the projected shipped date for the third time, now 26th of July. I'm this close to take a 2700x from one of my crunchers just to test something.


----------



## jesdals (Jul 17, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Your GPU is clocked higher than mine though, I got one of the first gen "slow" ones on the cheap...
> 
> That Broadwell-E was a very expensive chip at the time though.


Have  you tried to set your CPU to 1,3 vcore? I wonder if undervoltage is possible. Unfortunately I chose the wrong retailer so no 3800x before the end of this month


----------



## the54thvoid (Jul 17, 2019)

Currently deciding whether or not to buy the 3800x... It's the best chip my CH6 can officially accommodate.

*Grrr, shakes fist at Asus.


----------



## shmuck (Jul 17, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> I'm mostly seeing X570 boards here. Did any of you by chance get a B450 board with the new Ryzen, preferably MSI B450 Tomahawk?
> 
> A friend ordered an R5 3600 and the Tomahawk, parts did not arrive yet but I saw some major issues on the forums and such with MSI B450 boards, something to do with BIOS and being unable to boot 50% of the time.
> 
> So I wondered if any of you had any issues?








Yes, put this together yesterday (excuse the shitty pic). 3700X + Tomahawk. No issues with flashing or during ~5 boots so far.


----------



## Melvis (Jul 17, 2019)

I would like a 3400G but anything else no not really im more then happy with my 2700X and dont think its worth the money to upgrade to any of these CPU's just yet, might wait for 7nm+ I think.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 17, 2019)

jesdals said:


> Have  you tried to set your CPU to 1,3 vcore? I wonder if undervoltage is possible. Unfortunately I chose the wrong retailer so no 3800x before the end of this month


Nope, not played with any Voltages yet.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jul 17, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Nope, not played with any Voltages yet.


If I drop the 3900X to 1.3v I lose 2-3 percent performance.... 1.35 Seems to be within margin of error. Otherwise it is stable. I'm guessing the lower core count chips will have an even lower performance hit.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 17, 2019)

Dropping the Voltage seems to do nothing. It's set to 1.3V in the UEFI, but Ryzen Master is still reporting 1.4+
I guess it's possible I have one of those chips AMD want to hear about, as no matter what I do, the Voltage won't drop.
I even uninstalled iCue and I've killed off anything that I can think off that could interfere.








oxrufiioxo said:


> If I drop the 3900X to 1.3v I lose 2-3 percent performance.... 1.35 Seems to be within margin of error. Otherwise it is stable. I'm guessing the lower core count chips will have an even lower performance hit.


Only? I lost nearly 800 points in CB20...


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jul 17, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Dropping the Voltage seems to do nothing. It's set to 1.3V in the UEFI, but Ryzen Master is still reporting 1.4+
> I guess it's possible I have one of those chips AMD want to hear about, as no matter what I do, the Voltage won't drop.
> I even uninstalled iCue and I've killed off anything that I can think off that could interfere.
> 
> ...


Yeah i go from 7100-7200 Stock voltages which seem to be around 1.4 to 6900-7000 with 1.3 in CB20


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 17, 2019)

Voltages back on Auto, turned on PBO and now my CPU Voltage is stuck at 1.5V, regardless of what speed the CPU is at... WTF? 





And as soon as I load something, it drops to 1.45V... This makes no sense at all...
Still can't get above 4.4GHz...


----------



## shmuck (Jul 17, 2019)

@TheLostSwede, try switching to the Windows Balanced power plan.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 17, 2019)

shmuck said:


> @TheLostSwede, try switching to the Windows Balanced energy plan.


Already enabled.


----------



## shmuck (Jul 17, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Already enabled.



The Windows one, not Ryzen. It dropped my idle voltages to sub 1V.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 17, 2019)

shmuck said:


> The Windows one, not Ryzen. It dropped my idle voltages to sub 1V.


That made zero difference.


----------



## Anzlew (Jul 17, 2019)

In idle my CPU is around 1,45V and the frequency is around 4,3GHz. When under load it goes down to 1,33-1,35v - 4,1GHz.
I've tried to set the Vcore voltage manually to 1,35V but afterwards my results in tests was much lower.
What is strange are the CPU and VRM's temperatures.
Despite the 1,45V in idle the temps are pretty low - 30-33 deg C.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 17, 2019)

Anzlew said:


> In idle my CPU is around 1,45V and the frequency is around 4,3GHz. When under load it goes down to 1,33-1,35v - 4,1GHz.
> I've tried to set the Vcore voltage manually to 1,35V but afterwards my results in tests was much lower.
> What is strange are the CPU and VRM's temperatures.
> Despite the 1,45V in idle the temps are pretty low - 30-33 deg C.



Yeah, I see more or less the same pattern. Kill of your background tasks, like Skype for example, as it seems to keep at least one core at high clocks.
Galax XtremeTuner Plus also comes with a program called TestService.exe in my case, which keeps one of the cores clocked high as well.
If I kill those, it goes down to idle clocks of a few hundred MHz. You might have others running in the background eating CPU cycles without knowing it.
And you're right, the load power is lower than the idle power, wtf?


----------



## Anzlew (Jul 17, 2019)

I have cleaned my startup before updating the CPU. Despite no load the CPU doesn't want to lower the frequency. 
Maybe it is problem with readings of the software?
I am using H/W monitor to check the parameters.
Question is if it is not connected with the fact that I have B350 mobo.
But everything works fine. I haven't have even one BSOD and the efficiency is near the results which I can find online.


----------



## HTC (Jul 17, 2019)

Anzlew said:


> I have cleaned my startup before updating the CPU. Despite no load the CPU doesn't want to lower the frequency.
> *Maybe it is problem with readings of the software?*
> I am using H/W monitor to check the parameters.
> Question is if it is not connected with the fact that I have B350 mobo.
> But everything works fine. I haven't have even one BSOD and the efficiency is near the results which I can find online.



I wouldn't be surprised this were the case.

I read somewhere that AMD claims CPU-Z is the best tool to get the CPU voltage reading numbers. Can't quite find where i read that


----------



## shmuck (Jul 17, 2019)

HTC said:


> I wouldn't be surprised this were the case.
> 
> I read somewhere that AMD claims CPU-Z is the best tool to get the CPU voltage reading numbers. Can't quite find where i read that




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbls9g


----------



## HTC (Jul 17, 2019)

shmuck said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbls9g



Yup: that's where i read it.

Thanks for locating it.


----------



## Anzlew (Jul 17, 2019)

Hey.
I've read it too.
Thanks for reminding me where it was.
This article was the reason why I wasn't afraid about the CPU.
When I will be back at home I will recheck it again.
Thanks for the clue.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 17, 2019)

Normal rather than Auto Voltage drops it slightly, but still seemingly quite high at idle.
I get nothing like the CPU-Z screenshot Voltages, as in I'm never below 1.4 something at idle.


----------



## Anzlew (Jul 17, 2019)

Same here.
I don't know from where CPU-Z has taken the value which is in my validation


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 17, 2019)

Anzlew said:


> Same here.
> I don't know from where CPU-Z has taken the value which is in my validation



That's under load, as discussed above, it seems the Voltage drops under load...


----------



## Anzlew (Jul 17, 2019)

It seems like.
During Cinebench tests it drops down to 1,331V.
It's opposite to all I know about it and it feels strange


----------



## Vario (Jul 17, 2019)

To be honest, these things probably are just designed to run at higher voltage.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 17, 2019)

Vario said:


> To be honest, these things probably are just designed to run at higher voltage.



Sure, that's understood, the concern is why it doesn't seem to go into idle power.

Something is going on, be it a UEFI issue or something else, but if you have a look here, the idle power usage and Voltage should be really, really low.


----------



## Anzlew (Jul 17, 2019)

I have forget to turn on the Ryzen Balanced power mode .
After turning it on the power consumption doesn't look bad at all.
The Vcore voltage goes very high pretty often, but generally it started to drop.
Max values are from Cinebench runs.


----------



## shmuck (Jul 17, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> That made zero difference.


I've been talking out of my arse. I get 0.9V on the Power saving plan, but there's a noticeable performance penalty.

All the way down at around 0.5 V with Steam and the browser closed on the Ryzen balanced plan. Otherwise hovering around 1.4 V.

And 0.6 V when looking at a blank browser tab. 1.4 V looking at TPU doing nothing . Funny how little things like this have an impact.


----------



## kapone32 (Jul 17, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Sure, that's understood, the concern is why it doesn't seem to go into idle power.
> 
> Something is going on, be it a UEFI issue or something else, but if you have a look here, the idle power usage and Voltage should be really, really low.



Not that I have one but can you still enable "cool and quiet" in the BIOS. If that is the case you should be able to apply that. When I used it it still kept my OC when necessary but it would drop the voltage and clock to .9v and 2.5 GHZ when doing things like watching videos.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 17, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> Not that I have one but can you still enable "cool and quiet" in the BIOS. If that is the case you should be able to apply that. When I used it it still kept my OC when necessary but it would drop the voltage and clock to .9v and 2.5 GHZ when doing things like watching videos.



Changing to the Power Saver plan in Windows 10 does indeed do something.
So it would seem the AMD power profile is doing odd things, so even though there are cores that are asleep, the CPU Voltage always stays around 1.4V it would seem.
However, enabling the Windows Power Saver plan dropped it down to 0.9V something.
Now the question is, how does that affect performance and shouldn't AMD deliver a better power plan?


----------



## shmuck (Jul 17, 2019)

@TheLostSwede Use CPU-Z to check voltages. Ryzen Master is apparently so demanding that the CPU stays at 1.4 at all times )


----------



## kapone32 (Jul 17, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Changing to the Power Saver plan in Windows 10 does indeed do something.
> So it would seem the AMD power profile is doing odd things, so even though there are cores that are asleep, the CPU Voltage always stays around 1.4V it would seem.
> However, enabling the Windows Power Saver plan dropped it down to 0.9V something.
> Now the question is, how does that affect performance and shouldn't AMD deliver a better power plan?
> ...



Agreed it is really weird for me that your CPU idles at 1.4, The most I have at stock is 1.275. Having the Windows power saver will probably see a drop in performance as it may limit not just the CPU but your GPU power as delivery as well.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 17, 2019)

Performance takes a hit using the Power Saver plan. Maybe not enough to matter, but...







shmuck said:


> @TheLostSwede Use CPU-Z to check voltages. Ryzen Master is apparently so demanding that the CPU stays at 1.4 at all times )



That made no difference, I was having 1.4V something all the time in CPU-Z as well.


----------



## Vario (Jul 17, 2019)

Probably will be a fix to come whether by bios or windows update.


----------



## Chomiq (Jul 17, 2019)

shmuck said:


> Yes, put this together yesterday (excuse the shitty pic). 3700X + Tomahawk. No issues with flashing or during ~5 boots so far.



The thing is that MSI has put 16MB BIOS chips on its boards in the past (to save some $), now they've run into size limitations which has caused them to release "lite" BIOS which meets the 16MB limit but with limited functionality. Due to this they'll be re-releasing some B450 and X470 (and a single A320) models with 32MB chips, branded with "MAX" suffix:


			http://cdn.benchmark.pl/uploads/backend_img/c/newsy/2019-07/PM/msi-plyty-glowne-max-slajd-3.jpg


----------



## Xzibit (Jul 17, 2019)

Vario said:


> Probably will be a fix to come whether by bios or windows update.



Currently you need Win 10 1903 + Bios with AGESA 1.0.0.3 + Chipset 1.07.07.0725


----------



## John Naylor (Jul 17, 2019)

We generally won't build from 1st stepping CPUS, MoBos anbd other major compnents ... let the bleeding edge folks deal with the faulty BIOSs, borked feature support and other headaches common to 1st steppings.  As production line tweaks are implemented, your position in the silicon lotter alsi significantly improves with time.


----------



## john_doe (Jul 17, 2019)

hi all,

i need a CPUZ dump file from a new *Ryzen 5 / 7 / 9* cpu.

you can create one, doing this :

download the current version of cpuz: https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

*cpuz_x32.exe -txt=txtdump*
or
*cpuz_x32.exe -txt=txtdump*

then add the txtfile txtdump.txt here as an attachment or send it me, as a PM.

thx a lot.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 17, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> No issues with older games on a Ryzen 5 2600X I've played yet. Getting an older game to play nice with Windows 10 in compatibility mode is the most trouble I usually have.


New issue I ran into on older games but it's not a Ryzen CPU issue. The old DRM SafeDisc, three games I tried only one would open a window in File Explorer. The installer disc for Prince of Persia Sands of Time mounted but nothing else happened, and the same for Painkiller. The Doom 3 installer disc mounted but wouldn't open at first but after a reboot it opened, and allowed me to run the installer. Wondering though if the Painkiller install disc would of worked had I rebooted from trying PoP Sands of Time?


----------



## Metroid (Jul 17, 2019)

I'm in the process to decide which route i will take, ryzen 3700x or 9700k or 9600k, regardless of which one I choose, I will have to buy an AIO cooling system for it. That sums around $120 to the cost, the good news is that I do have many Z170 and Z270 motherboards around here, I bought them for work and now most are not being used, anyway, I modded some to be compatible with coffee lake, so, as I have very good 1151 motherboards and none ryzen am4, If I go ryzen will be motherboard $125 + 3700x $390 + AIO 280mm $120 =  $635, going intel 9700k will be 9700x $410 + AIO 280mm $120 = $530, going 9600k, will be 9600k $270 + AIO 280mm $120 = $390. Intel cpus will be 5.0ghz, ryzen will be 4.4ghz. I need single thread and while ryzen is a little bit better than intel at moment, intel holds the frequency race, tough choice.

Does anybody know if is hard to get 5.0ghz with 9600k?


----------



## GamerGuy (Jul 17, 2019)

If everything goes according to plan, I should have my mitts on a shiny new 3900X tonight, just got my Sabrent Rocket NVMe PCIe M.2 delivered. Will post a pic of the two after I've collected the 3900X tonihht. Can't do anything till I get back home (as in back to my country).


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jul 17, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> That made zero difference.


What I am seeing idle at desktop it drops even lower than this at times.


----------



## shmuck (Jul 17, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> What I am seeing idle at desktop it drops even lower than this at times.


Do you have ANYTHING at all other than CPU-Z running?


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jul 17, 2019)

shmuck said:


> Do you have ANYTHING at all other than CPU-Z running?




No, I was just trying to show that my idle voltages seem to be working normally.... Doing literally anything makes it shoot up to 1.3-1.45... under heavy load it settles around 1.33


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 17, 2019)

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ceakbs


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cefwjg


----------



## kartoffelotto (Jul 18, 2019)

The package is on its way and soon my old bucket will be retiring after 7 years of service. Im going back to AMD with a 3800x on x570 aorus ultra. might have gone a little over the top with the new system, but it felt really good to design a pc again. the only thing in short supply here now seems to be fast ram, looks like you nerds have been gobbling it all up for your new systems. Will still wait for the custom rx5700 models to make my decision on the graphics card.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 18, 2019)

kartoffelotto said:


> The package is on its way and soon my old bucket will be retiring after 7 years of service. Im going back to AMD with a 3800x on x570 aorus ultra. might have gone a little over the top with the new system, but it felt really good to design a pc again. the only thing in short supply here now seems to be fast ram, looks like you nerds have been gobbling it all up for your new systems. Will still wait for the custom rx5700 models to make my decision on the graphics card.


No point going really fast on the RAM side, most boards are optimised for 3600 and even though AMD said 3733, a lot of boards aren't tuned for 24/7 operation at 1:1 at that speed. Find some low latency 3600 modules and you should see really decent performance.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jul 18, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> No point going really fast on the RAM side, most boards are optimised for 3600 and even though AMD said 3733, a lot of boards aren't tuned for 24/7 operation at 1:1 at that speed. Find some low latency 3600 modules and you should see really decent performance.




I'm glad I went with the Team T Force Legend 3200 CL14. I was easily able to get it to 3600 16-16-16-36-72


----------



## Zareek (Jul 18, 2019)

< ---- Irritated with Gigabyte Dual BIOS BS! 

I finally broke down and made the NVMe plunge. I bought a Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB the other day. Yes, I know its not as fast as Brand XYZ PCIe 4.0 drive; I trust Samsung SSDs... Anyway it came in today so I threw it in and got ready for yet another Windows 10 install. My POST took forever, so I went into the BIOS and WTF!!! BIOS version F2, I know I was running F4d. Then I remembered, I bought the next tier up from what I intended to buy and this one has Dual BIOS. I remember why I was gonna drop back a tier. This has Dual BIOS but no way to manually override it. WTF... such a PITA!!!


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 18, 2019)

Zareek said:


> < ---- Irritated with Gigabyte Dual BIOS BS!
> 
> I finally broke down and made the NVMe plunge. I bought a Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB the other day. Yes, I know its not as fast as Brand XYZ PCIe 4.0 drive; I trust Samsung SSDs... Anyway it came in today so I threw it in and got ready for yet another Windows 10 install. My POST took forever, so I went into the BIOS and WTF!!! BIOS version F2, I know I was running F4d. Then I remembered, I bought the next tier up from what I intended to buy and this one has Dual BIOS. I remember why I was gonna drop back a tier. This has Dual BIOS but no way to manually override it. WTF... such a PITA!!!


The only reason it would not into the secondary BIOS chip is that something went wrong. There's no reason it should do that otherwise. Also, almost all Gigabyte boards that are worth the money, have dual BIOS chips.
Note that the secondary chip can't flash the primary, or vice versa.


----------



## GamerGuy (Jul 18, 2019)

I went out earlier to pick up the 3900X I had ordered, and my Sabrent Rocket NVMw PCIe M.2 SSD arrived this morning....


----------



## mechtech (Jul 18, 2019)

Nope.  Would like to see an RX 5700XT cut in half though.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 18, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> The only reason it would not into the secondary BIOS chip is that something went wrong. There's no reason it should do that otherwise. Also, almost all Gigabyte boards that are worth the money, have dual BIOS chips.
> Note that the secondary chip can't flash the primary, or vice versa.


I'm familiar, my 3rd or fourth board with it. Just like my last board it switches to the second BIOS for what seems like no reason. It stays on that BIOS until some other odd thing comes up and then switches back. My last board had override switches at least. I locked it down, especially trying to tweak in RAM. I figured I wanted to flash the second BIOS to a newer revision, so I checked Gigabyte and found F4f was posted so flashed to that. Here's the best part, it switched me back to the F4d after the reboot! I want to try the new rev. but at the same time I was getting great clocks from F4d. 

On the flip side with the new drive, if I blink, Windows has booted! I thought this was fast with the SATA drive. I forgot how fast and tiny these NVMe drives are. You open the box and it's like where is the rest of it!


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 18, 2019)

Zareek said:


> I'm familiar, my 3rd or fourth board with it. Just like my last board it switches to the second BIOS for what seems like no reason. It stays on that BIOS until some other odd thing comes up and then switches back. My last board had override switches at least. I locked it down, especially trying to tweak in RAM. I figured I wanted to flash the second BIOS to a newer revision, so I checked Gigabyte and found F4f was posted so flashed to that. Here's the best part, it switched me back to the F4d after the reboot! I want to try the new rev. but at the same time I was getting great clocks from F4d.
> 
> On the flip side with the new drive, if I blink, Windows has booted! I thought this was fast with the SATA drive. I forgot how fast and tiny these NVMe drives are. You open the box and it's like where is the rest of it!


That's really odd, I've owned half a dozen Gigabyte boards and never had that happen.

NVMe does indeed boot Windows at incredible speeds. I think it's nice to lose the cables. Thinking about a 2TB Intel 660p to dump my games on. Not because I really need it, but...


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 18, 2019)

Not odd.
It's Gigabyte... they all have two bios chips since ... I forgot when, more than 10 years.

_Several of those boards don't have a hardware switch for the bios_, and what it does... when it detects that it cannot boot with the current active bios, it switches to the other one.
It took me a while to figure this out the first time it happened. "WTF ? I thought I updated the bios"...

Solution:
Update again when on the 2nd (so both bios chips are updated).
Next time when it crashes it will switch back to the first one (which was previously updated)


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 18, 2019)

Wavetrex said:


> Not odd.
> It's Gigabyte... they all have two bios chips since ... I forgot when, more than 10 years.
> 
> _Several of those boards don't have a hardware switch for the bios_, and what it does... when it detects that it cannot boot with the current active bios, it switches to the other one.
> ...


I remember a keyboard combination would allow you to switch over to the second BIOS. I don't remember what it was though since the last Gigabyte mobo I had came with AMD 880G chipset.

Edit: Alt+F12 on a PS/2 Keyboard






__





						Gigabyte DualBIOS Overwrite Second BIOS
					

Gigabyte DualBIOS Overwrite Second BIOS




					forum.giga-byte.co.uk


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 18, 2019)

Hey, look what the cat dragged in !





Begun, the testing has...












Running on an (cheap today) X370 board with not so great memory... so clearly there's more juice left in this.
Agesa 1.0.0.3 not yet available for this board. Maybe in the next weeks...?

Not really sure what the voltage story is, but when I tried to set a lower one in Bios (manual), performance tanked.
It only sustains these scores if I leave it on Auto.


----------



## HD64G (Jul 18, 2019)




----------



## jesdals (Jul 18, 2019)

Well my retailer came trough any ways












Need to become a bit more familar with the bios setting at tweekings but is running default settings + xmp on the Master. Had to bios update from version F5 or the usb devices would crash in bios


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 18, 2019)

I've managed to catch it boost over the "advertised" frequency, as PBO+100Mhz is enabled in BIOS, while running SuperPI (1T)
People all around were saying that the CPUs never reach their advertised speeds.

But it does boost AND overclock, it's just that it's so rare... watched it for a few mins until I noticed for very short time the 44.25 and 44.50 multipliers.
Also, if Windows is doing ANYTHING in the background... say goodbye to "44", it never gets there.

Normally it hovers around 4.3 on single threaded stuff, and drops to 3.95-4.1 with all cores loaded, depending on the program and what it does.





Started running some 3DMark (will update here as I finish the tests):

Time Spy: https://www.3dmark.com/spy/7825219
Fire Strike Extreme: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/37775934
Fire Strike: https://www.3dmark.com/fs/19901482
Night Raid: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/37775610

Compares with my HEDT (but older) 6800K:
TS: https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/7825219/spy/4645393
FS: https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/19901482/fs/16633048
3DMark is not kind to AMD CPU's on "graphics" test (single threaded perf basically)...

Crap memory indeed, 80ns OUCH.
I'm going to start looking for a 3200 CL14 kit with Sammy B-Die... they aren't that expensive today anymore.



7zip:


----------



## jesdals (Jul 18, 2019)

Have changed my power setting to maximum and no sleep or hipernation mode in windows 10, that gives between 4.398 and 4.516MHz


----------



## Metroid (Jul 18, 2019)

jesdals said:


> Have changed my power setting to maximum and no sleep or hipernation mode in windows 10, that gives between 4.398 and 4.516MHz



Good going in there. I always leave at the maximum, maybe that could be the key to get always the maximum advertised speed? in 3800x case is 4.5ghz.


----------



## Dristun (Jul 18, 2019)

Overshot my rent budget a bit so something had to give: here's the 3600! Hopefully 6 cores will be enough for all games in the next couple of years.


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 18, 2019)

Wow this thing loves fast(er) memory.

By putting a bit of voltage and tightening from CL16 to CL14 (,15,15,35)








						Result
					






					www.3dmark.com
				




*+15%* on the combined test. And I broke 20000 yay !
Really tempted to get a 3200 CL14 native (Sam B-Die?) and tighten it as much as possible, or 3600 CL16 for that sweet IF @ 1800Mhz whatever that will do.

... or, something fishy is going on.
In any case, the 3000 series are clearly not your average Intel CPU... more Mhz = more speed.
Ryzen 3000 is like that "special lady"... unpredictable


----------



## jesdals (Jul 18, 2019)

Did a run of my recent favorit game - the first is with my old Z170 and the second with the X570 - note the cpu usage at 5760x1200 all settings on max except for Fog Theres on high and radeon graphics all on max as well



will have to do something with those fps thoug


----------



## Xzibit (Jul 18, 2019)

Wavetrex said:


> Hey, look what the cat dragged in !
> 
> View attachment 127093
> 
> ...



I can't break 4700 on CineBench 20 Multi-Core. Single I get 500 even

During multi load mine levels out at 3.9XXmhz 1.1volts. Single load it peaks at 4.375mhz 1.3volts (stock)


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 18, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> I can't break 4700 on CineBench 20 Multi-Core. Single I get 500 even
> 
> During multi load mine levels out at 3.9XXmhz 1.1volts. Single load it peaks at 4.375mhz 1.3volts (stock)


Well, your 3700X will probably last longer than mine.

Apparently my ancient mobo thinks that it needs 1.45 volts to run under load...
It's just set to "Auto".
Not sure exactly what to do ? If I set it manually to 1.3 or something, it doesn't boost properly anymore... drops to less than 4.2 on single thread, and under 4.0 on multi.
(not crashing either... I don't really understand how these new things work, clearly not the typical CPU)

Oh, and 4900 after memory tweaks. Could probably break 5000 with a nice memory...


----------



## Xzibit (Jul 19, 2019)

Just broke 4705. All i had to do was disable windows security.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 19, 2019)

jesdals said:


> Well my retailer came trough any ways
> View attachment 127108View attachment 127109View attachment 127110View attachment 127111View attachment 127112
> 
> Need to become a bit more familar with the bios setting at tweekings but is running default settings + xmp on the Master. Had to bios update from version F5 or the usb devices would crash in bios



Well, you're seeing higher boosts than me, if only by 50MHz, but even so. I can't get past 4,400...
What cooler do you use?


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 19, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Well, you're seeing higher boosts than me, if only by 50MHz, but even so. I can't get past 4,400...


You might want to watch this thread I made:








						Matisse (Ryzen 3000) overclocking/undervolting
					

(Please excuse me if this was posted already somewhere else and I missed it, If not, here we go:)  Findings on how to make Ryzen 3000 CPUs go faster, or cooler, or more power efficient. Sure, the internet is full of reviews, but why not have our little corner.  --- My findings today on a R7...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




This is one weird CPU !
And is about to get weirder...


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 19, 2019)

Wavetrex said:


> Wow this thing loves fast(er) memory.
> 
> By putting a bit of voltage and tightening from CL16 to CL14 (,15,15,35)
> 
> ...


No need for Samsung memory, I'm on Hynix CJR and they work just fine, in fact I'm below the spec of the modules when it comes to the timings.


----------



## jaggerwild (Jul 19, 2019)

WOW@ 1.472v @4400 Thanks for posting!


----------



## jesdals (Jul 19, 2019)

Im using a custom setup based on the Noctua NH-D15 SE-AM4. I am currently only using a blower in the middle since memory slots and the IO shield takes up to much space. But its a loud build with at lot of air intake and exhaust blowers because of my R7 gpu.

I just finished a windows 10 1903 setup guide from Tech Yes City - its actually really good and you can pick your poison from it 








Did bring me som more frames


----------



## rundovitrun (Jul 19, 2019)

Been procrastinating over upgrading for a while (years), there's always something else that takes priority. Got the 3700x, MSI B450 Tomahawk, 256gb M.2 Viper and 16gb of Gskill 3200mhz DDR4. Flashed bios first fairly uneventfully. Installing windows was a pain as I wanted a fresh install onto the new M.2 drive, couldn't get the system to see the USB even though I set it as 1st boot in bios. Eventually after clearing CMOS booted from the old SSD and will just have to clone this later to get the OS onto the fastest drive. 

Coming from a 4C/4T AMD Phenom (10yr old build) the change is immense 2088 cinebench r15 no tweaks or OC, nearly 6 times faster than the Phenom. Keeping my GTX 980 just now to see what happens with GPUs when the RTX 280 super comes out next week, old CPU the bottleneck in gaming. Noticed in CPU-z that I couldn't see memory so need to figure out why this is happening. You can see 3700x boosting quite happily to 4.325, not going to bother overclocking as you lose the highest boost. Not sure about all the RGB stuff but it works and makes it justified to have a glass side panel now. Any advice on software to try and sync all of the rgb would be great. I'll post more results when things are stabilised



jesdals said:


> Im using a custom setup based on the Noctua NH-D15 SE-AM4. I am currently only using a blower in the middle since memory slots and the IO shield takes up to much space. But its a loud build with at lot of air intake and exhaust blowers because of my R7 gpu.
> 
> I just finished a windows 10 1903 setup guide from Tech Yes City - its actually really good and you can pick your poison from it
> 
> ...


I'm getting Noctua to send me the AM4 adapter kit for NH-D14, posted yesterday apparently - excellent service and company to support their product for so long. We'll see how this helps performance. Just back from holiday to Denmark, seeing the delights of Kobenhavn, Lemvig and Billund. Love your country, so laid back and pleasant to explore, food is exquisite


----------



## jesdals (Jul 19, 2019)

Did a 5 ours play trough of Division 2 and got these readings from HWmonitor.



I am actually not quit sure how to read those temps - but looks okay - voltage seems in the high end



Not all cores are used in full during the game



4500MHz seems to be the top end of boost



I did fear that my Radeon 7 would heat up my m.2 disk that does not seems to be the case. My Corsair MP600 disk i located in the top slot above the GPU
The Samsung 960 Evo is in the midle slot beneath the GPU.



Even the GPU doesent seem to hot - during the game it would peak around thos numbers and after a couple of ours be between 60 and 72c


----------



## mstenholm (Jul 19, 2019)

Gigabyte and their temperature readings...I never learned what they refer to and I tried in the past to find out on my boards. Do you mind to update your System Specs?


----------



## advanced3 (Jul 19, 2019)




----------



## -1nf1n1ty- (Jul 19, 2019)

I have so many questions. How's the performance with x370 boards? Is it worth upgrading from what I have now? Haven't seen any reviews or anything in all of it


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 19, 2019)

-1nf1n1ty- said:


> I have so many questions. How's the performance with x370 boards? Is it worth upgrading from what I have now? Haven't seen any reviews or anything in all of it


Identical with any other board.
Some vendors even got "Precision Boost" with Auto-OC and PBO and all the bells and whistles turned on for B350/X370 boards, not just 400 series.

Basically, there is ZERO reason to change board if you have one that works and supports the CPU.
PCI-e 4.0 is, right now, completely unnecessary.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 20, 2019)

jesdals said:


> Did a 5 ours play trough of Division 2 and got these readings from HWmonitor.
> View attachment 127248
> I am actually not quit sure how to read those temps - but looks okay - voltage seems in the high end
> View attachment 127249
> ...


Just a tip, your Samsung SSD is too full and is going to have slowed down, if it's actually 94% full.

The rest looks "normal" for the 3000-series. In fact, you CPU boosts as it should, by the looks of things.



Wavetrex said:


> Identical with any other board.
> Some vendors even got "Precision Boost" with Auto-OC and PBO and all the bells and whistles turned on for B350/X370 boards, not just 400 series.
> 
> Basically, there is ZERO reason to change board if you have one that works and supports the CPU.
> PCI-e 4.0 is, right now, completely unnecessary.


Not quite true, it depends what your current board is and if you're looking for additional features over what you had. It obviously seem to work fine in 99% of cases to use an older boards, but as we've seen, some boards don't seem to support all the new CPUs and Anandtech couldn't stress test on an Asrock mini-ITX board without BSOD. So there are fringe cases where old boards aren't suitable and we might as well be honest about it.


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 20, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Not quite true


The fact that one board is defective or simply has shitty components doesn't mean that the other older boards are unusable.
Those that do not work are the fringe cases here, and they should just be dismissed as "random design errors".

If the manufacturer specifies that it supports Zen 2, it will work, and at the same performance as on the $700 X570.
The question was: "_How's the performance with x370 boards?_"
and *not* "_Will it work on x370 boards?_"

My answer was correct.
When it works (in most cases), "margin of error" performance differences. That is the fact.

It might be that a board that does work fine doesn't support (or work properly with) very fast memory... and this doesn't depend on price.
That has always been the case in the entire history of modern DDR, some boards simply can't clock memory as high as others due tot particularities of the traces from the CPU socket to the memory.

I will find out soon if that is the case with my cheapo sub-$100 X370 board, as I've just ordered some DDR4-3600 CL16 memory .... Ballistix Elite - The current holder of memory overclocking record.





						Crucial Ballistix Elite BLE2K8G4D36BEEAK 16GB Desktop Gaming Speicher Kit: Amazon.de: Elektronik & Foto
					

Crucial Ballistix Elite BLE2K8G4D36BEEAK 16GB (8GBx2) Desktop Gaming Speicher Kit (3600 MHz, DDR4, DRAM, CL16) - Kostenloser Versand ab 29€. Jetzt bei Amazon.de bestellen!



					www.amazon.de
				



If by any chance it doesn't work @ 3600, there's 3466, 3333, 3200...


----------



## jesdals (Jul 20, 2019)

Sorry for posting more Division 2 test, but it is my go to game for the moment. With my old setup it would not run stable in directx 12, so i figured i would try to test and after two intense ours in the Darkzone it seems like the bugs are gone. Well a fresh windows 10 and upgrade to 10pro could be the reason.

I am using a simple wall watt meter to measure the current usage of the system and while gaming in directx it went to 380 watt max a little increase over the old system. In direct 12 it peaked 410 watt. Its possible due to more GPU usage. 



It did give a good boost in FPS. I am still impressed with the cpu usage


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 20, 2019)

New video out, 3800X, as expected, waste of money.
It's within "margin of error" to 3700X, and when adding PBO+AutoOC, they literally become identical.


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 21, 2019)

And I can't edit last post anymore...

New video HwU out, 3600X vs 3600 = No difference whatsoever, a waste of $50.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 21, 2019)

I regret one thing about my upgrade. Bothering with a new motherboard. It got me basically nothing and cost me the $270, consumed one of my spare Windows 10 licenses and made me go through the bother of a full re-install. I still haven't migrated all my data over. It seems the 3800X is an odd duck and probably not worth the extra $70. AMD's approach to clocking on these chips results is some very odd behavior for sure. A leveling of the playing field if you will, I'm not convinced at this point we've seen the final performance particularly on the 3800X.  It is very evident AMD knew they had a great chip and they rushed it out before Intel had any time to respond. At the same time we are dealing with some of that fallout. Be it with abnormal boosting results and other minor quirks or compatibility bugs  like the Destiny 2 one. I think we are going to see some refinement and improvements over then next several months while they work out the quirks. All this should have been done before launch but I'm not surprised given we've been beta testing software down to the OS itself for the last few years. The internet  and easy access to patching and firmware updates has changed the game.

The machine is physically re-assembled, CPU under the H60. I played F1 2018 for about 8 hours yesterday, a bit of a binge. I put HWiNFO64 on my second screen, my average core clock was 4.32Ghz and my peak temp was 70.2C. All stock, no tweaks and this thing is faster than what I paid for, I couldn't be happier with this chip. On the annoying side, if I want to disable the circus lights on my motherboard I have to install Gigabytes craptastic software suite because they pulled the basic LED controls out of the BIOS. God forbid they pay the extra 20 cents for the 32MB chips so we can have a fully functional BIOS.


----------



## HD64G (Jul 25, 2019)

Another (old-ish now) article for the BIOS-version-effect on the Ryzen 3000 performance with interesting findings depending on the program used: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14632/amd-ryzen-3000-review-bios-update-recap


----------



## mstenholm (Jul 25, 2019)

HD64G said:


> Another (old-ish now) article for the BIOS-version-effect on the Ryzen 3000 performance with interesting findings depending on the program used: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14632/amd-ryzen-3000-review-bios-update-recap


They (Anandtech) should have been honnest about the BIOS version story in the first place. They claimed that they used the lasted but available but the AB version had been up on MSI homepage for 3-4 days before the review launch.


----------



## Kissamies (Jul 25, 2019)

Not yet, pretty short on money and I'm waiting that they fix the most BIOS issues with older boards.

Also I hope that there will be a 3700 non-X for us poor people.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 25, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> They (Anandtech) should have been honnest about the BIOS version story in the first place. They claimed that they used the lasted but available but the AB version had been up on MSI homepage for 3-4 days before the review launch.


Anandtech is a joke now a days, Pirch and their autoplay videos. I actually met Anand over 20 years ago while I was helping a friend pick out a video card at a CompUSA in Raleigh, NC. He told me about his website and I started using it that same day. He's a really nice guy, I bet he regrets selling his namesake website to those idiots who have destroyed it. The site wasn't the same after he left and now it's not even worth visiting.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 25, 2019)

Zareek said:


> I regret one thing about my upgrade. Bothering with a new motherboard. It got me basically nothing and cost me the $270, consumed one of my spare Windows 10 licenses and made me go through the bother of a full re-install. I still haven't migrated all my data over. It seems the 3800X is an odd duck and probably not worth the extra $70. AMD's approach to clocking on these chips results is some very odd behavior for sure. A leveling of the playing field if you will, I'm not convinced at this point we've seen the final performance particularly on the 3800X.  It is very evident AMD knew they had a great chip and they rushed it out before Intel had any time to respond. At the same time we are dealing with some of that fallout. Be it with abnormal boosting results and other minor quirks or compatibility bugs  like the Destiny 2 one. I think we are going to see some refinement and improvements over then next several months while they work out the quirks. All this should have been done before launch but I'm not surprised given we've been beta testing software down to the OS itself for the last few years. The internet  and easy access to patching and firmware updates has changed the game.
> 
> The machine is physically re-assembled, CPU under the H60. I played F1 2018 for about 8 hours yesterday, a bit of a binge. I put HWiNFO64 on my second screen, my average core clock was 4.32Ghz and my peak temp was 70.2C. All stock, no tweaks and this thing is faster than what I paid for, I couldn't be happier with this chip. On the annoying side, if I want to disable the circus lights on my motherboard I have to install Gigabytes craptastic software suite because they pulled the basic LED controls out of the BIOS. God forbid they pay the extra 20 cents for the 32MB chips so we can have a fully functional BIOS.



From what I'm hearing from the motherboard makers, this is how AMD operates. They expect the board makers to help them debug and fix the hardware and the end users end up being kind of beta testers, as so often is the case. I'm not going to say that Intel always gets it right, but their customers are in general not doing as much beta testing for them.

I don't regret getting a new motherboard, as my new board is way nicer than my old one. I do agree on the 3800X, it's an odd duck indeed, as it seems to offer zero benefit over the 3700X as of right now. 

As for the LEDs, go have a look in the UEFI, there's a "hidden" setting in there for turning off most of the LEDs, but it's not in a super logical place. I'll grab a screenshot if you want.
It's not as if these boards need the 32MB flash chip, at least not today, so you have a fully featured UEFI, as the 32MB thing is for three plus generations of CPUs.



Zareek said:


> Anandtech is a joke now a days, Pirch and their autoplay videos. I actually met Anand over 20 years ago while I was helping a friend pick out a video card at a CompUSA in Raleigh, NC. He told me about his website and I started using it that same day. He's a really nice guy, I bet he regrets selling his namesake website to those idiots who have destroyed it. The site wasn't the same after he left and now it's not even worth visiting.



Adblockers work great though...

I met Anand in Taiwan around 16 years ago, he was at Computex with his mum...
He's indeed a nice guy and actually quite funny.
The site still have some decent reviewers, but you're right, it's not what it used to be. They really screwed up their Ryzen 3000 review though.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 25, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> From what I'm hearing from the motherboard makers, this is how AMD operates. They expect the board makers to help them debug and fix the hardware and the end users end up being kind of beta testers, as so often is the case. I'm not going to say that Intel always gets it right, but their customers are in general not doing as much beta testing for them.



When I bought first gen Ryzen and it was ready to go, I don't remember how long after launch it was though. The only issue I had is the same RAM with the XMP issue. The one third gen Ryzen doesn't fix so my guess is Corsair screwed the pooch on it. I used to buy AMD back in the Athlon days. First gen through maybe Athlon 64x2 and there was no beta testing feel to it. I'm not looking to defend AMD per se or I would babble on about how Intel doesn't really change much from generation to generation and simply changes numbers on chipsets to require new ones. How they change pin assignments in identical sockets just to require a new socket. It's just in my experience this launch was uncharacteristically sloppy for AMD, especially since Lisa Su took over.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 25, 2019)

AT was bought out by Future nearly two years ago. Purch isn't a part of that AFAIK.

And honestly, the knowledge they have there is hands down better than most sites. If you want deep technical info, that is the place to go. If you want high level, TPU is here along with a dozen other sites.



Zareek said:


> It's just in my experience this launch was uncharacteristically sloppy for AMD


Ryzen launches have been in character being sloppy... Zen was a nightmare for some... Zen+ wasn't bad... but this launch is seeing its share of issues.. not like Zen, but issues.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 25, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> AT was bought out by Future nearly two years ago. Purch isn't a part of that AFAIK.
> 
> And honestly, the knowledge they have there is hands down better than most sites. If you want deep technical info, that is the place to go. If you want high level, TPU is here along with a dozen other sites.


Scroll down their homepage. It says Purch right on it. Just like Tom's Hardware they ruin the entire site except maybe the homepage with autoplay videos that make ABSOLUTELY zero sense. They aren't even advertisements as far I can tell. Ian and Ryan both do a decent job, they're not bad writers. Obviously there is some intelligence there but it just isn't Anandtech without Anand. Couple that with the autoplay videos over and over and over. Every friggin' page load, it is absolutely INFURIATING!


----------



## kapone32 (Jul 25, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> AT was bought out by Future nearly two years ago. Purch isn't a part of that AFAIK.
> 
> And honestly, the knowledge they have there is hands down better than most sites. If you want deep technical info, that is the place to go. If you want high level, TPU is here along with a dozen other sites.
> 
> Ryzen launches have been in character being sloppy... Zen was a nightmare for some... Zen+ wasn't bad... but this launch is seeing its share of issues.. not like Zen, but issues.



This is not the only time that released new hardware has had teething issues. Did we not have some of these issues with the release of X299. We should keep in mind that this is almost a brand new product vs the Ryzen vs Ryzen+ release.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 25, 2019)

Zareek said:


> Scroll down their homepage. It says Purch right on it. Just like Tom's Hardware they ruin the entire site except maybe the homepage with autoplay videos that make ABSOLUTELY zero sense. They aren't even advertisements as far I can tell. Ian and Ryan both do a decent job, they're not bad writers. Obviously there is some intelligence there but it just isn't Anandtech without Anand. Couple that with the autoplay videos over and over and over. Every friggin' page load, it is absolutely INFURIATING!


Ad block ftw. 

But I agree... too many ads. But that is what happens when you are taken over by an even bigger conglomerate... got to monetize more!!

It was last year I guess...: https://www.google.com/search?q=fut...droid-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8



kapone32 said:


> This is not the only time that released new hardware has had teething issues. Did we not have some of these issues with the release of X299. We should keep in mind that this is almost a brand new product vs the Ryzen vs Ryzen+ release.


No shit. It wasn't a dig on amd...this is the subject we are talking about. There is zero need for balance in the force here man...lolol


----------



## Zareek (Jul 25, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Ad block ftw.



I used to use Chrome almost exclusively and the ad blockers and pretty much every other plugin I tried could not stop those videos. I switched to FF and a new blocker and boom, no more autoplay videos. That reminds me, I need to whitelist TPU on this one.


----------



## HTC (Jul 25, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> The site still have some decent reviewers, but you're right, it's not what it used to be. *They really screwed up their Ryzen 3000 review though.*



Please elaborate.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 25, 2019)

Zareek said:


> When I bought first gen Ryzen and it was ready to go, I don't remember how long after launch it was though. The only issue I had is the same RAM with the XMP issue. The one third gen Ryzen doesn't fix so my guess is Corsair screwed the pooch on it. I used to buy AMD back in the Athlon days. First gen through maybe Athlon 64x2 and there was no beta testing feel to it. I'm not looking to defend AMD per se or I would babble on about how Intel doesn't really change much from generation to generation and simply changes numbers on chipsets to require new ones. How they change pin assignments in identical sockets just to require a new socket. It's just in my experience this launch was uncharacteristically sloppy for AMD, especially since Lisa Su took over.


Yeah, my Corsair RAM won't work "properly", i.e. at 3200MHz, with my 3800X either and that's on a new board as well, so...

This isn't unique to AMD, so many companies do that these days and it's a shame. It's expensive to develop hardware, even more so a CPU, but it's getting boring being an early adopter and getting screwed over, again and again.


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 25, 2019)

@TheLostSwede

New version has been promised for the Ryzen DRAM calculator from @1usmus in the next few days (28th?), most likely supporting timings for Zen 2.

I noticed myself that the DOCP on my Corsair 3000 memory failed to boot, I had to enter values manually to get it started, via several hours of trial and error.
Eventually I got it to work with 14-16-16-35-etc. @ 3000 and 1.38 voltage...
... only to replace that memory with the new one one week later 

Perhaps with the new version of the calculator the process will get easier.

I don't think your purchase was bad, even as early adopter, but it will take several firmware (AGESA) and bios revisions to actually get them working properly and without issues.
Same story as for Ryzen 1 and screwed up memory timings.

Beta testers we all are, indeed...


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 25, 2019)

HTC said:


> Please elaborate.



The usual CPU reviewer (Ian) was apparently unable to do the review, so Gavin did the testing and clearly messed up. There were a lot of issues and clearly some flawed testing, as they came back with new numbers.
It's truly embarrassing for a publication like Anandtech to screw up that much imho.
Even from the start, a lot of content wasn't ready, which seems to be more and more common on Anandtech. They also come up with some half arsed excuses every time.
Yet, somehow, all the other review sites manages to get their reviews out on time.
Maybe do like TPU and split things up a bit?
I've done my fair share of reviews in the past and I know how much work is involved, but it's better to do a solid review, than publish something half arsed.



Wavetrex said:


> @TheLostSwede
> 
> New version has been promised for the Ryzen DRAM calculator from @1usmus in the next few days (28th?), most likely supporting timings for Zen 2.
> 
> ...


I simply bought some new RAM, working at better timings than what it's sold as and although it doesn't work with XMP either, it does work at its rated speed.


----------



## kapone32 (Jul 25, 2019)

No shit. It wasn't a dig on amd...this is the subject we are talking about. There is zero need for balance in the force here man...lolol
[/QUOTE]

Hahaha that is nice. I just wanted to make sure that some of the Intel fans to not jump on your post and continue to blindly rant on AMD.



TheLostSwede said:


> Yeah, my Corsair RAM won't work "properly", i.e. at 3200MHz, with my 3800X either and that's on a new board as well, so...
> 
> This isn't unique to AMD, so many companies do that these days and it's a shame. It's expensive to develop hardware, even more so a CPU, but it's getting boring being an early adopter and getting screwed over, again and again.



For me the best RAM for AMD is Gskill. Sure the Flare-x gets a lot of attention but for me the Ripjaws 4 and 5 series offer better value than that  or Corsair, I had 3200MHZ DDR4 from Corsair for my first AM4 build and 2933 was the highest they would go on X370 and X470. I especially like the Ripjaws 4. You can get 16GB of DDR4 3000 15-15-15-35 for less than $100.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 25, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> For me the best RAM for AMD is Gskill. Sure the Flare-x gets a lot of attention but for me the Ripjaws 4 and 5 series offer better value than that  or Corsair, I had 3200MHZ DDR4 from Corsair for my first AM4 build and 2933 was the highest they would go on X370 and X470. I especially like the Ripjaws 4. You can get 16GB of DDR4 3000 15-15-15-35 for less than $100.



I guess I had better luck than you then, I got it to 3066. Went with Patriot this time, as the price was just too good locally. GSkill is way too expensive for what it is here, regardless of type and a lot of their AMD friendly memory is simply not available.


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 25, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> GSkill is way too expensive for what it is here, regardless of type and a lot of their AMD friendly memory is simply not available.


How about Ballistix ? The famous Crucial E-die ... it worked for me advertised timings directly, no tweaking needed.
And... strangely, it was cheaper than GSkill ram by quite a lot ! (wanted that one first, but when seeing the price(s) my eyes were bleeding...)


----------



## kapone32 (Jul 25, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> I guess I had better luck than you then, I got it to 3066. Went with Patriot this time, as the price was just too good locally. GSkill is way too expensive for what it is here, regardless of type and a lot of their AMD friendly memory is simply not available.



I guess it depended on the board and revision. Well the Ripjaws 4 for are recommended for the X99 platform. The funny thing is that Gskill (not FLare x) is cheaper than Corsair in Canada. The only RAM (that works) cheaper than that is Team Group.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 25, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> I guess it depended on the board and revision. Well the Ripjaws 4 for are recommended for the X99 platform. The funny thing is that Gskill (not FLare x) is cheaper than Corsair in Canada. The only RAM (that works) cheaper than that is Team Group.


I had so many problems getting my memory stable on my 1700x that when my motherboard died on me, I ended up buying a G.Skill Flare-X kit to try before I  RMAed it. It didn't fix it, obviously still needed to complete an RMA the board. When Ryzen 3000 came out, the original Corsair DDR4-3200 kit was on a lot of QVLs so I was like sweet, I can use that kit! Nope, still doesn't work with XMP. The Flare X kit I put in assigned XMP profile 1 and reboot and it runs at 3200 CL14 on both the 1700x and now the 3800x. I did pay way too much for the G.Skill kit but it works as advertised with no messing around or tweaking.


----------



## kapone32 (Jul 25, 2019)

Zareek said:


> I had so many problems getting my memory stable on my 1700x that when my motherboard died on me, I ended up buying a G.Skill Flare-X kit to try before I  RMAed it. It didn't fix it, obviously still needed to complete an RMA the board. When Ryzen 3000 came out, the original Corsair DDR4-3200 kit was on a lot of QVLs so I was like sweet, I can use that kit! Nope, still doesn't work with XMP. The Flare X kit I put in assigned XMP profile 1 and reboot and it runs at 3200 CL14 on both the 1700x and now the 3800x. I did pay way too much for the G.Skill kit but it works as advertised with no messing around or tweaking.



Corsair are like Asus to me now (overpriced for meh products) I wanted to get the Flare X after I had the exact same issue as you (MB died) the price was just too rich for my blood ($339 CAD at the time) for 16GB of DDR4. That is why I like the RIpjaws 4 so much I bought my first set on a Black Friday sale for $149.99 . Yes it is 200mhz slower but only has a 1 ns difference in latency but more than 1/2 the price is academic. If you are not too far away from me I could send you a couple of sticks to try.


----------



## Zareek (Jul 25, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> Corsair are like Asus to me now (overpriced for meh products) I wanted to get the Flare X after I had the exact same issue as you (MB died) the price was just too rich for my blood ($339 CAD at the time) for 16GB of DDR4. That is why I like the RIpjaws 4 so much I bought my first set on a Black Friday sale for $149.99 . Yes it is 200mhz slower but only has a 1 ns difference in latency but more than 1/2 the price is academic. If you are not too far away from me I could send you a couple of sticks to try.


Thanks so much for offering but I'm all set for now. I swapped the G.Skill into the 3800X board and I was able to tweak the Corsair kit on the old 1700x. With the newer BIOS, I actually got it to run at 3200 CL16 but had to up the voltage to 1.5v instead of the advertised 1.35v. I think I'm going to try RMAing it. It should work at advertised XMP settings, that is what I paid for. I've never tried RMAing RAM becasue it would not run at the clocks promised but it's worth a shot now that I tried it on two different motherboards and processors. Right now I'm just playing with the old chip. I tried under-volting and under-clocking it to maybe use as a FreeNAS board. I would probably try some ECC ram in it if I did go that way with it. I'm still deciding what to do with it. My son asked if he could have it as an upgrade from my old 3770K he is using now. I want to say yes but he doesn't deserve free crap right now. He graduated high school and doesn't plan to go to college in the fall yet he doesn't have a job yet! Eats, sleeps and games for the most part. I've had to put him to work around the house.


----------



## Vayra86 (Jul 25, 2019)

trickson said:


> RIGHT! Now it is WORTHLESS! Amazing how that works.
> So then I would be lucky to get $25 bucks for the things. AMAZING!
> Like I said it is like buying a car once it leave the lot it's GAME OVER!
> 
> I just bought 2 new vehicals too, One that cost for me 50K! Now what do you suppose it's worth now? That's RIGHT 25K! Half! And it's a fing 2018 Dodge 4X4!



Solution, never buy things. Oh wait


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 25, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> Solution, never buy things. Oh wait


Another solution, buy second hand/used although there is a risk of getting scammed/lemon.


----------



## Nordic (Jul 26, 2019)

I have my system built and running. I seem to be getting about 8-11% faster single core speeds than my old 4790k. Temps are at 68c at full load with air cooling. All would be well if I could get my memory to run at its advertised XMP specs. When I try to turn on XMP the system fails to post.

I almost always buy gskill, but this time I bought corsair because they were $15 cheaper with 1 lower cas speed. I guess it was too good of a deal because now I have overpayed for 2133mhz memory.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 26, 2019)

Wavetrex said:


> How about Ballistix ? The famous Crucial E-die ... it worked for me advertised timings directly, no tweaking needed.
> And... strangely, it was cheaper than GSkill ram by quite a lot ! (wanted that one first, but when seeing the price(s) my eyes were bleeding...)


Not available is speeds over 3000...


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 26, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Not available is speeds over 3000...


You mean not in stock there or... ?
The letters I'm typing now go through a Ballistix Elite 3600 CL16 ...


			https://www.crucial.tw/twn/zh/memory/ballistix%20elite
		


They exist all the way up to 4000 officially:








						ballistix-elite-4000 | Crucial Taiwan
					

CategoryShortDescription




					www.crucial.tw


----------



## mstenholm (Jul 26, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> As for the LEDs, go have a look in the UEFI, there's a "hidden" setting in there for turning off most of the LEDs, but it's not in a super logical place.* I'll grab a screenshot if you want.*


Ohh yes please. I'm still waiting for my 3900X but the Aorus Master is ready and so is my Linux ISO.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 26, 2019)

Wavetrex said:


> You mean not in stock there or... ?
> The letters I'm typing now go through a Ballistix Elite 3600 CL16 ...
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, not available here and Crucial doesn't sell directly here. If you'd clicked any of the links you would've seen no one sells it.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 26, 2019)

Hella yes I got a shiny new Ryzen 3000 CPU, and I have no regrets for swapping the 2600X.
@Chloe Price


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 26, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> Ohh yes please. I'm still waiting for my 3900X but the Aorus Master is ready and so is my Linux ISO.



It's fairly easy to find, just turn off the first option and it should work. Don't ask me why the screenshot feature takes wonky screenshots though...


----------



## Nordic (Jul 26, 2019)

I tried upping the voltage on my memory to 1.45v to see if it would even post with the xmp timings. It didn't. I am going to try a lower ram speed at the xmp timings next.

It might be worthwhile to return this memory and get memory with a slower speed. The motherboard says it is having a problem with the cpu when trying to boot with the memory at xmp timings. Maybe my memory is fine but my cpu is on the bad end of the silicon lottery.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 26, 2019)

No,but 3600 is on my radar,and if 3700 ever happens then it's gonna be there too.X models are not worth it.
However,the more I analyze the current market for cpus and gpus,the more convinced I am the best time to buy a new product (not a refresh) is 8-12 months after the launch.The prices have settled.The competition is out with their product,so there's a high likelihood of some msrp adjustments or like amd did extra added value with bundles.The bugs have been ironed out.Mobo reviews are in abundance,new improved models are out (heard some x570 models with passive/pwm chipset will be on the way).
The thing that could very well stop me is ddr4 though.It's never been good value for what it offered,and it doesn't look like it's coming down while ddr5 might be out in a year or so.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 26, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> the more convinced I am the best time to buy a new product (not a refresh) is 8-12 months after the launch.The prices have settled.The competition is out with their product,so there's a high likelihood of some msrp adjustments


This isnt really a new concept though and how it generally works through each product cycle. Time may vary a bit, but in general that advice has been shared for the almost 2 decades I've been doing this stuff. 

There is always a premium to pay for getting the latest and greatest.

Ddr4 is at their lowest prices in a while... I wouldnt hold my breath for ddr5 either.  Well have another full gen, if not two, on ddr4 from both camps.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 26, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> This isnt really a new concept though and how it generally works through each product cycle. Time may vary a bit, but in general that advice has been shared for the almost 2 decades I've been doing this stuff.
> 
> There is always a premium to pay for getting the latest and greatest.


well I'd like a platform that would serve me well for 5 years like z97 with 4790k/5775c did.Looks like it's not gonna be anything ddr4 based.Ryzen on ddr5 will kick ass.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 26, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> well I'd like a platform that would serve me well for 5 years like z97 with 4790k/5775c did.Looks like it's not gonna be anything ddr4 based.Ryzen on ddr5 will kick ass.


See my ninja edit....


Really ddr5 isnt going to matter just as ddr4 plays little role in much of anything. Ram is ram and shouldnt be a large factor in when to upgrade.. there isnt a thing in the ddr5 spec that is going to change the world. 


Edit (sorry!) - as core counts increase (shakes first at AMD, lol), bandwidth needs do increase but saturating them isnt easy for most users.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 26, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> See my ninja edit....
> 
> 
> Really ddr5 isnt going to matter just as ddr4 plays little role in much of anything. Ram is ram and shouldnt be a large factor in when to upgrade.. there isnt a thing in the ddr5 spec that is going to change the world.


3600 c16 is still an arm and a leg.it's actually more expensive to get a 3600mhz c16 16bg kit than the price of ryzen 3600 !
yes you can buy 3000 sticks at a good price but that's pretty slow.
ram has a big,big impact for high refresh rate users,and especially on ryzen.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 26, 2019)

An arm and a leg used to be 2 arms and 2 legs a year+ ago. 

There's around a 3% gain in gaming through TPU tests (3k to 3.6k) at 720p and 1080p while in applications it was less than 3%. I think we have a different idea of "big big impact...for ryzen users". 








						AMD Zen 2 Memory Performance Scaling with Ryzen 9 3900X
					

We take a close look at memory scaling on AMD's new Zen 2 Ryzen 3900X, testing both application and gaming performance at seven different memory speed and timing combinations ranging from 2400 MHz all the way up to 4000 MHz.




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 26, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> An arm and a leg used to be 2 arms and 2 legs a year+ ago.
> 
> There's around a 3% gain in gaming through TPU tests (3k to 3.6k) at 720p and 1080p while in applications it was less than 3%. I think we have a different idea of "big big impact...for ryzen users".


there's other tests than 720p on tpu though.Did you know that ?


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 26, 2019)

He test 1080p too... 

Of course it varies by app... but 'big big' doesnt describe the majority of results. Heres another link to look at.









						Zen and Vega DDR4 Memory Scaling on AMD's APUs
					






					www.anandtech.com
				





Instead of being a smart pants, why not go ahead and post a link to that polish site.. 

Edit: no cherry picking graphs.. a link to those, bud. Also, that test not only ups the memory, it engages PBO which increases clock speeds. So that is part of what you are seeing in that testing. If they were truly testing the impact on memory speed only, they shouldnt have enabled pbo with the faster memory.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 26, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> He test 1080p too...
> 
> Of course it varies by app... but 'big big' doesnt describe the majority of results. Heres another link to look at.
> 
> ...


ekhm,pclab.pl

plus how can you be sure they're testing for cpu bottleneck if there's no specific location picked for tests.
pclab tested odyssey in pireus,one of the most demanding ares for cpu.that's how I know they mean business.newer played gta5 but I trust it's cpu heavy location too.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 26, 2019)

See edit again...lol..


I'll stop doing that..haha


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 26, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> See edit again...lol..
> 
> 
> I'll stop doing that..haha


I edited too 

pbo is like 100mhz 
link,didn't include it cause links look ugly on tpu









						AMD Ryzen 9 3900X i Ryzen 7 3700X – test. Nowa architektura i litografia w działaniu
					

Procesory Ryzen trzeciej generacji wreszcie są dostępne – od jutra będzie można je kupić w polskich sklepach. Nowa mikroarchitektura Zen 2, technika litograficzna klasy 7 nm i rozdzielenie funkcji procesora na dwa jądra krzemowe pozwoliły AMD zmieścić w dobrze znanej podstawce AM4 więcej rdzeni...



					pclab.pl
				





cut long story short,3700x + fast memory can come close to 8700k oc with fast memory,but it needs the memory badly to perform.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 26, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> plus how can you be sure they're testing for cpu bottleneck if there's no specific location picked for tests.


because Im not buying what you're selling here (location, location, location)... this isnt real estate. 

But yeah, those tests are so great for testing memory the knuckle heads seemed to add a variable (PBO) instead of just seeing the impact on the memory!!! So while we see 10% gains in these titles you picked out, some of this comes from the increased clocks through pbo.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 26, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> because Im not buying what you're selling here... this isnt real estate.
> 
> 
> But yeah, those tests are so great for testing memory the *knuckle heads seemed to add a variable (PBO) instead of just seeing the impact on the memory*!!! So while we see 10% gains in these titles you picked out, some of this comes from the increased clocks.


yo dawg,it's not a memory test !!!!! it's a 3700x review  plus pbo is peanuts in added pefromance,can even be counter productive.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 26, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> yo dawg,it's not a memory test !!!!! it's a 3700x review  plus pbo is peanuts in added pefromance,can even be counter productive.


Right... you showed me something that doesnt test memory scaling independently like my links do.. nice.

Point is... I'll take that with a grain of salt since clocks were different.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 26, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Right... you showed me something that adds variables... nice.
> 
> Point is... I'll take that with a grain of salt since clocks were different.


barely.
end of story is - use pbo and fast ram and 3700x comes close to 8700k oc with fast ram even though 3700x falls flat on its face when it comes to core oc.Apparently latency is much more crucial to ryzen that intel and you can compensate CL's oc headroom with fast ram on ryzen.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 26, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> barely.
> end of story is - use pbo and fast ram and 3700x comes close to 8700k oc with fast ram.


what does an 8700k have to do with anything??

Anyway, ddr4 is at its cheapest point in quite a while... we wont see ddr5 for at least 2 gens... and we see some impact from memory  (and PBO!!) In a couple games from your polish friends. Got it.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 26, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> what does an 8700k have to do with anything??
> 
> Anyway, ddr4 is at its cheapest point in quite a while... we wont see ddr5 for at least 2 gens... and we see some impact from memory in a couple games from your polish friends. Got it.


it's a good reference point for someone coming from my performance that wants to upgrade to be meaningful.

like I said,the cheap sticks are cheap,not the actual high performance ones.

though 3700 might lure me in despite the ram.


----------



## Nordic (Jul 26, 2019)

According to w1zards, testing turning off smt gives a small boost in single core. My 3900x is getting within 5% of the 9700k in single core speeds with smt off, pbo on, and 2133mhz Cas 18 memory depending on the benchmark. If fast ram were to give me another 3% performance in single core like w1zzards memory tests show, my 3900x would be very close in performance to a 9700k. Benchmarks show that the 9700k is slightly faster than the 8700k.

Your argument seems silly because one of you claims memory won't make as big of a difference as the other thinks. The other thinks faster memory would make ryzen almost as fast as an OC 8700K. It is true that memory won't make a big difference, but it is also true that ryzen with fast memory would be almost as fast.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 26, 2019)

My attempt at a all core overclock matches up with @W1zzard's in the Ryzen 5 3600 Review.

Hit the CPU with a heavy AVX2 load, and the temperature jumps into 90C range. Slight improvement over the 110.2C I had at 4.175 GHz.





Link to the overclocking section in the review.








						AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Review
					

Ryzen 5 3600 is the most affordable Zen 2 processor in AMD's lineup. At just $200, it offers six cores and twelve threads, yielding a significant advantage in applications against the competition from Intel. Gaming performance is also improved nicely as it is around 10% higher than with previous...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 26, 2019)

Nordic said:


> Your argument seems silly because one of you claims memory won't make as big of a difference as the other thinks. The other thinks faster memory would make ryzen almost as fast as an OC 8700K. It is true that memory won't make a big difference, but it is also true that ryzen with fast memory would be almost as fast.


The 8700K was a random point dude brought up that had nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Felt like an ADHD moment.... applesapplesapplesapplesapplesapplesORANGESapplesapplesapplesapples.


----------



## Nordic (Jul 27, 2019)

I was able to set my memories clock to 3533mhz, which is one step down from the rated xmp speeds. It seems to run fine. It isn't going full speed, but I am at least getting most of the bandwidth I paid for.


----------



## Wavetrex (Jul 27, 2019)

What I can say that games have become much smoother since the upgrade.
Intel i7-6800K (6-core HEDT, quad channel with DDR4-3000 CL16) @ 4.2 Ghz => AMD R7 3700X (8-core, dual channel DDR4-3600 CL16) w/ PBO+100 (hits 4.45 in light loads 1T)

The difference might not appear big on paper... and while I don't have the tech to measure precisely (FCAT and stuff), the "feels" are way better. Micro-stuttering seems to have mostly vanished, games don't drop as much to low frame-rate in difficult scenes (1%, 0.1% are clearly higher)
Click to screen lag doesn't seem to have changed, but it might be that it has reduced a bit. (Also using the USB ports wired straight to the CPU for Mouse/Keyboard, that might shave of a few milliseconds compared to the other USBs that go through the South-Bridge (X370).

It's possible that the faster CPU with more cores also help when it comes to all the background operations that Windows does.

---
That being said, while I could have gotten the *9900K* at launch and have a similar experience (or better), I chose to support the *Red Team* this time, especially because that 9900K might not have existed if Red Team wouldn't heat up the core warz with their Zen (1) arch 2 years ago.

And so far it seems to be a good choice !

p.s.
I wonder if next year's CPU will also work on AM4?


----------



## jesdals (Jul 27, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I was able to set my memories clock to 3533mhz, which is one step down from the rated xmp speeds. It seems to run fine. It isn't going full speed, but I am at least getting most of the bandwidth I paid for.


Did you buy these as a 4 stick kit or 2 by 2 kit? 4 dims is always tricky. I am waiting for delivery of the 18, 19, 19 variant of these in a 2x8 kit, hope they work better. And do hope you can manage to get yours stable. Try to look at this 







 its not the same board but good info any way


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 27, 2019)

Destiny 2 still does not work on Ryzen 3000 chips and even after all this time... AMD apparently had a fix, you had to update your motherboard BIOS, but they pulled it caused it caused to many issues. Ryzen 1000 and 2000 chips play Destiny 2 fine though.

Looks like it might be several months still before it gets fixed. So if you play Destiny 2 your stuck with Intel still.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 27, 2019)

Wavetrex said:


> What I can say that games have become much smoother since the upgrade.
> Intel i7-6800K (6-core HEDT, quad channel with DDR4-3000 CL16) @ 4.2 Ghz => AMD R7 3700X (8-core, dual channel DDR4-3600 CL16) w/ PBO+100 (hits 4.45 in light loads 1T)
> 
> The difference might not appear big on paper... and while I don't have the tech to measure precisely (FCAT and stuff), the "feels" are way better. Micro-stuttering seems to have mostly vanished, games don't drop as much to low frame-rate in difficult scenes (1%, 0.1% are clearly higher)
> Click to screen lag doesn't seem to have changed, but it might be that it has reduced a bit.


The Tech Report tests games for dropped frames in their CPU reviews when benchmarking. Might want to have a look.








						AMD's Ryzen 7 3700X and Ryzen 9 3900X CPUs reviewed
					

Crysis 3 Yet again, we’re kicking off the gaming results with Crysis 3. When it released in 2013, this game was almost impossible to run on the maximum settings, because it...




					techreport.com


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 27, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> like I said,the cheap sticks are cheap,not the actual high performance ones.



Stop talking crap, you can get 16GB of DDR4 3600 at decent latencies for under $100. Prices have gone up a bit since I last looked, most likely due to increased demand, as it was close to $85 a couple of weeks ago on Amazon.





						Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3600MHz Kit w/Gunmetal Grey heatshield at Amazon.com
					

Buy Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 16GB (2 x 8GB) 3600MHz Kit w/Gunmetal Grey heatshield: Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				



I got this kit locally for well under $100, although it's more in Europe due to higher VAT. It's actually gone up in price locally by about $10 too.
To use your currency, I paid €80 for it and it's now €89.








						Patriot Viper Steel DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-3600, CL17-19-19-39 ab € 59,88 (2023) | Preisvergleich Geizhals EU
					

✔ Preisvergleich für Patriot Viper Steel DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-3600, CL17-19-19-39 ✔ Bewertungen ✔ Produktinfo ⇒ Typ: DDR4 DIMM 288-Pin • Takt: 3600MHz • Module: 2x 8GB • JEDEC: PC4-28800U… ✔ Speicher ✔ Testberichte ✔ Günstig kaufen




					geizhals.eu
				



It runs nicely at CAS 16 at 1.35V. I don't know if much lower is really needed.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 27, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Stop talking crap, you can get 16GB of DDR4 3600 at decent latencies for under $100. Prices have gone up a bit since I last looked, most likely due to increased demand, as it was close to $85 a couple of weeks ago on Amazon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol,you understand I buy locally ? here a 3600 kit costs 1000pln while r5 3600 is 900.
I admire people who accuse me of manipulating prices cause they're different somewhere else in other currency.That cheap ram is nowhere on QVL by the way,no guarantee its gonna work on ryzen at its rated speed so stap talking crap x2.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 27, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> lol,you understand I buy locally ? here a 3600 kit costs 1000pln while r5 3600 is 900.
> I admire people who accuse me of manipulating prices cause they're different somewhere else in other currency.


You're aware that you can buy from anywhere within the EU without having to pay import duties, no? So if there's a better price elsewhere, why not go for it?
I wasn't accusing you of anything beyond not actually looking around.
You can clearly see that there's much more affordable RAM to be had than what you claim.
If you only want to shop from one specific shop down the street from your house, how is that anyone else fault?


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 27, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> You're aware that you can buy from anywhere within the EU without having to pay import duties, no? So if there's a better price elsewhere, why not go for it?
> I wasn't accusing you of anything beyond not actually looking around.
> You can clearly see that there's much more affordable RAM to be had than what you claim.
> If you only want to shop from one specific shop down the street from your house, how is that anyone else fault?


goodbye,going on igonre list.
no one said I wanna buy on my street,but I don't wanna pay foreign shipping and have to deal with foreign rma of a ram that's not on qvl list.got it ? now scram.
how is it MY fault that ram prices are so high ? you're basically accusing me of cherry picking while it's you that's clrearly doing it.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 27, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I was able to set my memories clock to 3533mhz, which is one step down from the rated xmp speeds. It seems to run fine. It isn't going full speed, but I am at least getting most of the bandwidth I paid for.



You use four sticks? There's your problem.
AMD only officially supports 2933 for four sticks of memory.
It might be possible, as in your case, to run them faster, but don't expect to be able to run them as fast as you could with two sticks.
Easy thing to test, remove two sticks and see what happens.


----------



## silkstone (Jul 27, 2019)

I just ordered a Ryzen R5 3600 for my server/HTPC. It seems like the best value for money.
I was trying to run Motion on a Athlon 200GE and finding it woefully inadequate for 3 cameras (soon to be upgraded to 5).


----------



## Nordic (Jul 27, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> You use four sticks? There's your problem.
> AMD only officially supports 2933 for four sticks of memory.
> It might be possible, as in your case, to run them faster, but don't expect to be able to run them as fast as you could with two sticks.
> Easy thing to test, remove two sticks and see what happens.


That would explain it. I decided to get 32gb while memory was still at low prices even if 32gb is excessive right now. I am not planning on upgrading for hopefully 5 years this time. I will test with just 2 sticks.

@jesdals I plan to do overclock it at some point. I am waiting for that ryzen dram calculator to be updated for ryzen 3000 to take a lot of the guess work out.


Edit: @TheLostSwede with two sticks in a2b2 as the motherboard manual recommends I still can't post at 3600mhz. The motherboard lights up saying that it can't get past the cpu. I wish I could get the little speaker going so I could record the boot code.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 27, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> goodbye,going on igonre list.
> no one said I wanna buy on my street,but I don't wanna pay foreign shipping and have to deal with foreign rma of a ram that's not on qvl list.got it ? now scram.
> how is it MY fault that ram prices are so high ? you're basically accusing me of cherry picking while it's you that's clrearly doing it.



Amazon Germany should have decent ram and free shipping to Poland.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Jul 27, 2019)

He's not interested, I guess. 

I've had difficulties running my sticks at 3600 C14. I think I may just run them at C16 and call it a day.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 27, 2019)

I found 3400 cl14 sticks at a nice price actually.Ryzen 2000 owners say they run 3200/3333 max. but with 3000 I might get lucky with overclocking them to 3600.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 27, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> I found 3400 cl14 sticks at a nice price actually.Ryzen 2000 owners say they run 3200/3333 max. but with 3000 I might get lucky with overclocking them to 3600.












						G.SKILL Trident Z Neo (For AMD Ryzen) Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin RGB DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-16GTZN - Newegg.com
					

Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Neo (For AMD Ryzen) Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin RGB DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-16GTZN with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




this is the best ram for ryzen, but its not out for sale yet.  its the new NEO line.  there is a $129 version as well but you just add 2 to the CAS which is fine, this is more for people who just want to be elite


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 27, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> G.SKILL Trident Z Neo (For AMD Ryzen) Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin RGB DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-16GTZN - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Neo (For AMD Ryzen) Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin RGB DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C14D-16GTZN with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> ...


"ram for ryzen" aka gimme mo money


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 27, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> "ram for ryzen" aka gimme mo money



I don't know promised XMP of 3600 CAS 14 is pretty nice.  overclocking ram is a bit difficult for most people, I can do some basic overclocking with it but not a ton. that price is dumb though so yeah its a hard pass for me.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Jul 27, 2019)

That's the most stable I could get my 3200 kit without going stupid on IMC volts. It's expensive, though. Most Bdie kits can already do this at 1.45-1.5v which is fine for that kind of RAM.


----------



## Chomiq (Jul 27, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> I found 3400 cl14 sticks at a nice price actually.Ryzen 2000 owners say they run 3200/3333 max. but with 3000 I might get lucky with overclocking them to 3600.





			https://www.amazon.de/Ballistix-BLS8G4D32AESCK-Speicher-PC4-25600-288-Pin/dp/B07MNJRQB2/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Ballistix+Sport+LT+BLS8G4D32AESCK+8GB&qid=1564252615&s=computers&sr=1-3
		


Micron E-die, supposedly works well on Ryzen. Proline has 2x8 kit for 339 PLN.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 27, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> https://www.amazon.de/Ballistix-BLS8G4D32AESCK-Speicher-PC4-25600-288-Pin/dp/B07MNJRQB2/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Ballistix+Sport+LT+BLS8G4D32AESCK+8GB&qid=1564252615&s=computers&sr=1-3
> 
> 
> 
> Micron E-die, supposedly works well on Ryzen. Proline has 2x8 kit for 339 PLN.



you really want at least 3200 cas 14 with ryzen.  i doubt that will OC to that.


----------



## Chomiq (Jul 27, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> you really want at least 3200 cas 14 with ryzen.  i doubt that will OC to that.


From Amazon reviews:
"3000CL15 @ 3200CL14 1,37V "


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 27, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> From Amazon reviews:
> "3000CL15 @ 3200CL14 1,37V "



aye its possible but its still hit or miss with ram, your not promised that at 1.37v or even 1.38v some ram sticks just suck. its silicon lottery really. i'm not sure what the ratios are as far as your odds though, so the odds might still be in your favor if you want to risk going cheap


----------



## Chomiq (Jul 27, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> aye its possible but its still hit or miss with ram, your not promised that at 1.37v or even 1.38v some ram sticks just suck. its silicon lottery really. i'm not sure what the ratios are as far as your odds though, so the odds might still be in your favor if you want to risk going cheap


He could always try, there's 14 day no questions asked refund policy for online orders in EU and for Amazon I believe it's extended to 30 days.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 27, 2019)

I think 2000 could do 3200/14 already,right?


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 27, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> I think 2000 could do 3200/14 already,right?



rarely. i have a budy with 2700x and he bought bdie ram, but since he is running 32 gibs 4x8gb, he can only get 2666 even tho he paid for 3200, and its asus maximus x470 board.  like the top tier board. pretty sad really.


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 27, 2019)

Man the wait for Ryzen 9 3950X is horrible long. i want it now . I7 980X has been great, but i want new toy to play with.

Seing all your other getting your Ryzen one after a nother is painful. Every time i see a new post from a ryzen 3000 owner, i want to ask the same as he does in this short video.


----------



## mstenholm (Jul 27, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> Man the wait for Ryzen 9 3950X is horrible long.


Don't expect that you can buy it anywhere in Denmark in September. Even the 3900X is hard to get a hand on. The place that I put my order on the 07.07.19 has changed the delivery time four times now without telling me. Next time I post here will be with the shop name mentioned and something like avoid next to it if I don't have a positive confirmation that I have it before xx.xx.2019.


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 27, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> Don't expect that you can buy it anywhere in Denmark in September. Even the 3900X is hard to get a hand on. The place that I put my order on the 07.07.19 has changed the delivery time four times now without telling me. Next time I post here will be with the shop name mentioned and something like avoid next to it if I don't have a positive confirmation that I have it before xx.xx.2019.



Yeah i know. I dont exspect to get it before late october or early november.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 27, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> Man the wait for Ryzen 9 3950X is horrible long


At least your not waiting on the next Zen2 Threadripper.


----------



## Tomgang (Jul 27, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> At least your not waiting on the next Zen2 Threadripper.



Well i cant argue against that. Rumors says october and if it ends like ryzen 3000. Your are maybe not getting your cpu before like start of december and we dont even know for sure how true these rumors are. luckely i have more than enoufh power with a 16 core CPU. Given i comming from an old 6 core CPU with a pretty weak core IPC compared to a modern CPU.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Jul 27, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> At least your not waiting on the next Zen2 Threadripper.











						Threadripper 3000 Processor CPU with 16-cores spotted in benchmark
					

A first CPU with 16 cores and 32 threads at somewhat dimmed clock frequencies has appeared in a benchmark database. The TR4 socket is used and essential features are identical....




					www.guru3d.com
				





mainstream ryzen is basically the same "formula" as threadripper now.I don't know when the announcement for TR3000 is gonna drop,but once it does I suspect it won't be a long wait at all.


----------



## Chomiq (Jul 27, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> I think 2000 could do 3200/14 already,right?


According to MSI's compatibility list, even for B450, some sticks should have no problems running at 3600.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Jul 27, 2019)

2000 series had no problems hitting 3200 MHz. Most could do 3600 with dual slots occupied with relative ease. When you occupy all four, that’s when you run into issues.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 27, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> 2000 series had no problems hitting 3200 MHz.


The PNY 3200 MHz I'm using ran without issue paired to the 2600X, and they weren't on the mobo QVL.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Jul 27, 2019)

QVL is meh at best, honestly. They just don’t have enough time to test every single module out there.


----------



## EarthDog (Jul 27, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> QVL is meh at best, honestly. They just don’t have enough time to test every single module out there.


Right... but it's at least tested. It isnt The Gospel, but it's by far the best we have to go on.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Jul 28, 2019)

Very true.


----------



## Nordic (Jul 28, 2019)

I think I have Micron E chips.







Given the information available, even though the calculator isn't updated, it looks like I could try 3200 Cas 14.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 28, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> rarely. i have a budy with 2700x and he bought bdie ram, but since he is running 32 gibs 4x8gb, he can only get 2666 even tho he paid for 3200, and its asus maximus x470 board.  like the top tier board. pretty sad really.


Again with the four sticks of RAM. No, Ryzen CPU's won't give you full speed RAM when using four modules, that's just a fact, so don't expect it.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 28, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Again with the four sticks of RAM. No, Ryzen CPU's won't give you full speed RAM when using four modules, that's just a fact, so don't expect it.



your common person doesn't know this, they should advertise on every AM4 motherboard box nice and clear.

also, does ryzen support 2x16gb sticks at full speed?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 28, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> your common person doesn't know this, they should advertise on every AM4 motherboard box nice and clear.
> 
> also, does ryzen support 2x16gb sticks at full speed?


Yes on two sticks of any size. Full speed obviously depends on the rated speed of the memory sticks.

This is more of an AMD, rather than motherboard maker issue, but it's the same on Intel, you can't run four sticks as fast as two and had been since forever, almost (on dual channel memory platforms that is).


----------



## Khonjel (Jul 29, 2019)

New chipset driver fixes Destiny 2 issues maybe?

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cj4cz6


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 29, 2019)

Khonjel said:


> New chipset driver fixes Destiny 2 issues maybe?
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cj4cz6



thanks for updating us, this is great news. is the driver direct from AMD or do we have to wait each motherboard manufacturer to post it?


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jul 29, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> thanks for updating us, this is great news. is the driver direct from AMD or do we have to wait each motherboard manufacturer to post it?



I have always downloaded AMD chipset Drivers direct from AMD on ASUS,MSI,Gigabyte,Asrock based system all three Ryzen generations without issue.


----------



## Khonjel (Jul 29, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> thanks for updating us, this is great news. is the driver direct from AMD or do we have to wait each motherboard manufacturer to post it?



looks like not official as of yet. Robert Hallock just uploaded the beta they're working on to let the community test on. It's a google drive link : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mojPNWcOuuhxvdBkYJlkLbsDXwGLImGp


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ciajef/_/evayush


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jul 29, 2019)

Anyone else run some Timespy with their new ryzen 3000 cpu? 
This is what I am seeing stock although the Team T Force legend is probably doing some work. It compares nicely to a 5ghz 9900k.


----------



## GoldenX (Jul 29, 2019)

I don't know, that 3500 smells nice.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jul 30, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> I don't know, that 3500 smells nice.



yeah I might grab the 3500. we will see.  just waiting on benches still.


----------



## biffzinker (Jul 30, 2019)

GoldenX said:


> I don't know, that 3500 smells nice.


Should overclock the same as the 3600/3600X, which should make it a hit.


----------



## PaddieMayne (Aug 2, 2019)

Its coming together slowly, saving now for new GPU and waterblocks.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 2, 2019)

PaddieMayne said:


> Its coming together slowly, saving now for new GPU and waterblocks.
> View attachment 128296




very nice, but you got the wrong ram. since your budget seems to be pretty balls to the wall, you might as well get the new G.Skill Neo ram designed for Ryzen 3000.  3600 CAS 14 running 1:1 on infinity fabirc.  it prob will even beat DDR5 at it's launch. also you will be using 4 ram slots in ryzen? it won't run at full speed, will hold you back a bit and might even cause stability issues, ryzen really needs to be 2 slots ram only.


----------



## PaddieMayne (Aug 2, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> very nice, but you got the wrong ram. since your budget seems to be pretty balls to the wall, you might as well get the new G.Skill Neo ram designed for Ryzen 3000.  3600 CAS 14 running 1:1 on infinity fabirc.  it prob will even beat DDR5 at it's launch. also you will be using 4 ram slots in ryzen? it won't run at full speed, will hold you back a bit and might even cause stability issues, ryzen really needs to be 2 slots ram only.



Already tested, all 4 sticks run at 3600mhz with no issues, just set it to XMP in the bios and it booted no problem, Ryzen 2 slots only, is only applicable too 1000 & 2000 Ryzen CPUs.

On a side note, the motherboard weighs an absolute ton, there must be alot of copper in these new boards.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 2, 2019)

PaddieMayne said:


> Already tested, all 4 sticks run at 3600mhz with no issues, just set it to XMP in the bios and it booted no problem, Ryzen 2 slots only, is only applicable too 1000 & 2000 Ryzen CPUs.
> 
> On a side note, the motherboard weighs an absolute ton, there must be alot of copper in these new boards.




did not know this, pretty sure lostswede told me otherwise just a few days ago.  this is awesome news.

also i just remembered G.Skill just announced a 3800 cas 14 Neo kit... prob will cost $400 for 16gb 2x8 of it though lol... but still, its insane they achieved that just for an xmp profile. i wonder if it still runs 1:1 though, i think 3733 is max for that, but maybe since the CAS is so slow this is the only exception? hmm would be neat to have clarity on that from g.skill.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 2, 2019)

PaddieMayne said:


> Already tested, all 4 sticks run at 3600mhz with no issues, just set it to XMP in the bios and it booted no problem, Ryzen 2 slots only, is only applicable too 1000 & 2000 Ryzen CPUs.
> 
> On a side note, the motherboard weighs an absolute ton, there must be alot of copper in these new boards.



It's actually not only applicable to the older Ryzen processors, AMD only guarantees speeds of up to 2933MHz with all four DIMM slots populated. You got lucky and bought the right RAM, not everyone is going to have the same success as you did.
This is admittedly by ASRock, but it's based on AMD's recommendations, as to what is guaranteed to work.






Obviously it's by no means impossible to run the memory faster than this, as we know, it's just that anything above this, well, that's down to a lot of different factors and can't be guaranteed. YMMV.

Looking at the QVL for my board, it seems like Gigabyte has even hit 4000 with four Ballistix sticks, but it's also the only memory they've hit that speed with using four sticks.
3600 and 3733 seems fairly doable with four sticks, but above that, not so much. That said, several Corsair Dominator Platinum kits are not playing nice with four modules at 3600 as an example.


			http://download.gigabyte.asia/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_x570-aorus-master_maltsse_20190724.pdf


----------



## PaddieMayne (Aug 2, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> It's actually not only applicable to the older Ryzen processors, AMD only guarantees speeds of up to 2933MHz with all four DIMM slots populated. You got lucky, not everyone is going to have the same success as you did.
> This is admittedly by ASRock, but it's based on AMD's recommendations, as to what is guaranteed to work.


Its also on MSI website for this motherboard support list as i checked that all 4 dimms work with this ram kit at xmp 3600, in fact if you look they even have a 4x 8gb kit which runs at 3733mhz, i suppose it comes down to the individual motherboard vendors. By the way im still on 1 to 1.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 2, 2019)

PaddieMayne said:


> Its also on MSI website for this motherboard support list as i checked that all 4 dimms work with this ram kit at xmp 3600, in fact if you look they even have a 4x 8gb kit which runs at 3733mhz, i suppose it comes down to the individual motherboard vendors. By the way im still on 1 to 1.



1:1 has nothing to do with how many DIMM slots you populate though, that's all about the memory/IF speed. At some point, the Infinity Fabric doesn't want to play along any more and will downshift to 1:2, which is usually at no higher than 1900MHz.


----------



## PaddieMayne (Aug 2, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> 1:1 has nothing to do with how many DIMM slots you populate though, that's all about the memory/IF speed. At some point, the Infinity Fabric doesn't want to play along any more and will downshift to 1:2, which is usually at no higher than 1900MHz.


Yes i know buddy, i watched all the reviews i could on pootube, thats why i went for 3600 as its the new sweetspot apparently.
Although i did watch Tiny Tom Logan of OC3d who reported being able to get 4000mhz and still keep 1:1.


----------



## HTC (Aug 2, 2019)

PaddieMayne said:


> Already tested, *all 4 sticks run at 3600mhz with no issues*, just set it to XMP in the bios and it booted no problem, Ryzen 2 slots only, is only applicable too 1000 & 2000 Ryzen CPUs.
> 
> On a side note, the motherboard weighs an absolute ton, there must be alot of copper in these new boards.



Saw a buildzoid video a while back where he was analizing an X570 board and he was surprised with the T-like topology for the RAM signals in the back of the board of that particular board: he explained that boards with this topology favor 4 DIMMs while boards with daisy-chain-like topology favor 2 DIMMs (either that or the other way around, as i may be remembering wrong).


----------



## PaddieMayne (Aug 2, 2019)

HTC said:


> Saw a buildzoid video a while back where he was analizing an X570 board and he was surprised with the T-like topology for the RAM signals in the back of the board of that particular board: he explained that boards with this topology favor 4 DIMMs while boards with daisy-chain-like topology favor 2 DIMMs (either that or the other way around, as i may be remembering wrong).


Yes i saw that video too. It was the MSI boards.


----------



## HTC (Aug 2, 2019)

PaddieMayne said:


> Yes i saw that video too. It was the MSI boards.


Don't remember which one but you could very well be right.

I don't usually watch those types of videos but, with the chipset being new and all, i though i should learn more about it and i chose that video.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 2, 2019)

PaddieMayne said:


> Yes i know buddy, i watched all the reviews i could on pootube, thats why i went for 3600 as its the new sweetspot apparently.
> Although i did watch Tiny Tom Logan of OC3d who reported being able to get 4000mhz and still keep 1:1.



Ok, good for you then, but not everyone else knows, hence why I'm trying to stick to known facts, rather than we get people reading this, thinking it'll work with any old combination of bits and then come here and complain.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 3, 2019)

Yeah, playing with Voltages or trying to set a higher  based frequency is a no go.
I set a CPU Voltage offset of -0.1V, it wouldn't even boot...


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Aug 3, 2019)

There’s next to no way that someone got 4000 on a 1:1 ratio. Nope.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 3, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> There’s next to no way that someone got 4000 on a 1:1 ratio. Nope.



agreed, the max is the new G.Skill Neo 3800 CAS 14 at 1:1  nothing will ever go higher and retain 1:1


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Aug 4, 2019)

I’ve seen 3830, but that’s very rare. Maybe a new AGESA will change that, but I doubt it.


----------



## GamerGuy (Aug 4, 2019)

Got my rig up and running, one issue is driving me nuts though, GB monitoring software reports crazy spikes in temps, one moment it idles at about 33C, it spikes to 60+C when I am installing some software, temps would be all over the place till the installation is done, then it'd drop back to 30+C within seconds. When I open GPUZ, it'd spike, when GPUZ has been loaded, it'd drop back down to idle temps again. Either the software monitoring program, or my AIO pump is screwy.......  Regardless, RGB does look good, though the extra RGB cables and where to plug them into gave me quite a migraine.





The RAM has a lot of exposed LED surface for greater bling, yes, I'm quite superficial....


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Aug 4, 2019)

That’s normal on these CPUs. There’s nothing wrong with your AIO.


----------



## Metroid (Aug 4, 2019)

You should be worried only if it goes above 80c on these spikes, using all cores 40c to 65c in seconds should be normal on aio, on stock cooler from 40c to 100c is normal ehhe.


----------



## jesdals (Aug 4, 2019)

Change memory out for a 3600MHz kit from Corsair CMK16GX4M2B3600C18



It will boot with CL15, but still shows as CL16 in windows, same behavior with CL17 ending up as CL18 in windows - could not make them boot at CL14.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Aug 4, 2019)

That's because Ryzen does not boot at odd CL timings, you need to enable gear down mode for that to happen.


----------



## Xzibit (Aug 4, 2019)

After seeing Linus video on Memory









Out of curiosity I tried my Ballistix Elite 3600 @ 3800

NB F / 1899.6mhz
DRAM F / 1899.6mhz
FSBDRAM / 3:57
CL / 16
trCD / 18
tRP / 18
tRAS / 38

So far hasn't crashed.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Aug 4, 2019)

Nice! I can't even get mine to boot, never mind do anything else at 3800.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Aug 4, 2019)

GamerGuy said:


> Got my rig up and running, one issue is driving me nuts though, GB monitoring software reports crazy spikes in temps, one moment it idles at about 33C, it spikes to 60+C when I am installing some software, temps would be all over the place till the installation is done, then it'd drop back to 30+C within seconds. When I open GPUZ, it'd spike, when GPUZ has been loaded, it'd drop back down to idle temps again. Either the software monitoring program, or my AIO pump is screwy.......  Regardless, RGB does look good, though the extra RGB cables and where to plug them into gave me quite a migraine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


God that's gotta be friggin annoying when the fans ramp up.Really hope something could be done about this.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Aug 4, 2019)

That's why you have to set the fan profiles to have a slow spin up. Mine take 12 seconds to go from one state to the next, so it isn't so abrupt. 

On a side note: the new AGESA in BIOS 803 for the CHVIII did naff all for me. Same clocks, nothing improved from an IF view. Also, none of the profiles work, although they carried over. They seem to set the BCLK to 0 (seriously) and funnily enough, cause your system to fail POST. Nothing transfers over, even though going from 501 (or whatever it was) to 702 was great as it kept the profiles.


----------



## Calmmo (Aug 5, 2019)

I placed an order for a 3900x on July 11, today after not receiving any updates I decided to ask via email. They told me they don't have a date nor does their importer. Atm I'm willing to wait a few weeks. Might end up canceling if there's no ETA by late august. At this rate 3950x seems like a more viable option.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 5, 2019)

Calmmo said:


> I placed an order for a 3900x on July 11, today after not receiving any updates I decided to ask via email. They told me they don't have a date nor does their importer. Atm I'm willing to wait a few weeks. Might end up canceling if there's no ETA by late august. At this rate 3950x seems like a more viable option.


Sorry to hear that, it seems like AMD made a batch of CPUs that sold out much quicker than they seemingly anticipated. It's odd that they don't seem to have any more chips coming though and the prices are likely to go up due to the shortage.


----------



## Wavetrex (Aug 5, 2019)

GamerGuy said:


> ... one moment it idles at about 33C, it spikes to 60+C when ...



AMD measures junction temperature, not package temperature, meaning the temp sensor is right there on the transistor layer (sandwiched between substrate and the bulk of the die).
Any operation will create a temporary hotspot until that heat has the chance to propagate through the silicon, solder, heat-spreader, thermal paste and onto the cooler.

Intel on the other hand measures the die temp, which is not as precise, but it also doesn't alarm the user to the high hot spots.

CMOS transistors usually endure up to 130 degrees until they start breaking down, and safety temperature is around 110 degrees (the moment the system is shut off - look for der8uer's video about running a Ryzen 6 without any cooler at all.

So, if your spikes (or averages) are under 100 degrees, you're still fine.

However, I would worry to see 100 degrees on Intel CPU, that means the junction temp can be as high as 120... very close to the destruction point.


Calmmo said:


> I placed an order for a 3900x on July 11, today after not receiving any updates I decided to ask via email. They told me they don't have a date nor does their importer.


They are still "out of stock", "preorder", "no estimate" on most if not all vendors in Europe.

Clearly AMD is not seeding enough of these chips.

It's also why I opted for 3700X, as it's totally unknown when 3900X will actually be delivered.
And yes, 3950X at some point in the future will be a better option, 4 more cores, better binned dies, and maximum performance possible for this platform.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 5, 2019)

Well, my CPU might not be the best when it comes to boosting, but I seem to have gotten a decent memory controller, as this RAM isn't all that special.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Aug 5, 2019)

4450 on the core? Wut. Mine struggles with 4300. 

Your RAM can go tighter than that on these controllers. I was booting at 4266 C16 flat at 1.125v on the SOC.


----------



## londiste (Aug 5, 2019)

Yes, I did. I am disappointed, both in terms of the experience as well as performance.
Got myself a B450 board from e-tailer at a good price then a second-hand 3600X (for availability reasons, wanted a 3600).

I game. This it the driving force behind the performance needs in my main computer. For background - my current CPU is i5 8400 and the GPU it needs to feed is RTX2080 on 1440p 165Hz monitor.
First, the motherboard obviously needs a BIOS update. And I need an older AM4 CPU for that.
Second, the Alpenföhn Black Ridge AM4 mount system is braindead so decided to go with the inbox Wraith Spire.

Fortunately, I have a 2400G box handy, so I take 2400G from there and do some switcheroo. To avoid excessive swapping, 2400G goes onto the brand new B450 and back into its little box and 3600X needs to be OK with the old B350. The last part is fine and it turns out in this particular case the old board was a better choice anyway as it had updated bios from July 31st while new one has last BIOS from couple weeks ago.

Wraith Spire (without the copper core like it currently seems to be) is useless. So are Gigabyte's default fan control settings. And the Silent ones. And the custom fan profile to stay at 20% under 40C and curving up to 35% or so at 50C has only reasonable success with fan running at 1900-2000 RPM idle. With constant spin-ups when anything wants to use any amount of CPU due to how boost algorithm currently works. Doesn't matter, at this point I am only testing and as long as CPU does not get too hot, it's fine. But for the love of god, don't say Wraith Spire is OK. If you like the sound of 2000+RPM fan, maybe. I don't.

Due to limited time (and disk space on my test SSD), went though a limited number of games - Division 2, Gears of War 4, Forza Horizon 4, Strange Brigade, Rise of the Tomb Raider and Shadow of the Tomb Raider. My expectation was 3600X beating my 8400 by 5-7% in FPS. it doesn't. In fact, averages are ever so slightly in favor of 8400. Even on 1080p, 3600X does not get a useful lead anywhere.

Power-wise, they act the same in games. Frequency-wise 8400 does 3.8 and 3600X does 4.2.


----------



## HTC (Aug 5, 2019)

londiste said:


> Due to limited time (and disk space on my test SSD), went though a limited number of games - Division 2, Gears of War 4, Forza Horizon 4, Strange Brigade, Rise of the Tomb Raider and Shadow of the Tomb Raider. *My expectation was 3600X beating my 8400 by 5-7% in FPS. it doesn't. In fact, averages are ever so slightly in favor of 8400.* Even on 1080p, 3600X does not get a useful lead anywhere.
> 
> Power-wise, they act the same in games. Frequency-wise 8400 does 3.8 and 3600X does 4.2.



How about minimums? Also: do you experience any stutter with either CPU?


----------



## Nordic (Aug 5, 2019)

What is this stutter people are getting on even powerful processors like sandy bridge through skylake. I have a 144hz monitor and think I would be sensative to this kind of stuff. When I used to game on a celeron I got all kinda of wierd stutters and performance problems.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 5, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> 4450 on the core? Wut. Mine struggles with 4300.
> 
> Your RAM can go tighter than that on these controllers. I was booting at 4266 C16 flat at 1.125v on the SOC.


Unfortunately not, it falls over if I push it any harder than that, as it's only 3600 17-19-19.
Even so, I'm quite happy with that.

You're the only one here with a worse chip than mine then. This is with PBO enabled, mind you, not that it seems to do much.


----------



## NoJuan999 (Aug 5, 2019)

GamerGuy said:


> Got my rig up and running, one issue is driving me nuts though, GB monitoring software reports crazy spikes in temps, one moment it idles at about 33C, it spikes to 60+C when I am installing some software, temps would be all over the place till the installation is done, then it'd drop back to 30+C within seconds. When I open GPUZ, it'd spike, when GPUZ has been loaded, it'd drop back down to idle temps again. Either the software monitoring program, or my AIO pump is screwy.......  Regardless, RGB does look good, though the extra RGB cables and where to plug them into gave me quite a migraine.


You should read this info about the updated Chipset Drivers, Ryzen Balanced Power Plan  and Ryzen Master:





						Community Update #5: Let’s Talk Clocks, Voltages, and Destiny 2
					

Hello! Thank you for all of the interest and excitement around 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Processors. We have some important updates today on our voltages, clockspeeds, and Destiny 2!     We diagnosed and resolved the issue causing software monitoring tools to report high voltages and clockspeeds at the...




					community.amd.com


----------



## phanbuey (Aug 5, 2019)

londiste said:


> Yes, I did. I am disappointed, both in terms of the experience as well as performance.
> Got myself a B450 board from e-tailer at a good price then a second-hand 3600X (for availability reasons, wanted a 3600).
> 
> I game. This it the driving force behind the performance needs in my main computer. For background - my current CPU is i5 8400 and the GPU it needs to feed is RTX2080 on 1440p 165Hz monitor.
> ...




that's good to know -- seems like Intel is still better for gaming - especially latency sensitive games.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 5, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> that's good to know -- seems like Intel is still better for gaming - especially latency sensitive games.



if security is important to you though, losing 5-10 FPS is probably worth it. Intel has had about 15 security issues in last two years, spectre was only the beginning of an avalanche. i believe there were even some new exploits announced a few weeks ago. yet Ryzen has none of them.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 5, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> if security is important to you though, losing 5-10 FPS is probably worth it. Intel has had about 15 security issues in last two years, spectre was only the beginning of an avalanche. i believe there were even some new exploits announced a few weeks ago. yet Ryzen has none of them.


You may want to read up on these and what effects what. Also, the severity and likelyhood of any of these actually happening to a home user... 

Stop FUD in its tracks.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Aug 5, 2019)

londiste said:


> Yes, I did. I am disappointed, both in terms of the experience as well as performance.
> Got myself a B450 board from e-tailer at a good price then a second-hand 3600X (for availability reasons, wanted a 3600).
> 
> I game. This it the driving force behind the performance needs in my main computer. For background - my current CPU is i5 8400 and the GPU it needs to feed is RTX2080 on 1440p 165Hz monitor.
> ...


well,that's cause 3600x doesn't beat 8400,not in any review ever.It has more consistent min. fps in some but that's about it.in those where 3600x beats 8400 it's the ram speed advantage.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 5, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> well,that's cause 3600x doesn't beat 8400,not in any review ever.It has more consistent min. fps in some but that's about it.



Not a big difference either (well, this is a non X so...), but yeah, behind in 1440p.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Aug 5, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Not a big difference either (well, this is a non X so...), but yeah, behind in 1440p.


0,3% is less than margin of error could be.
I don't understand this performance drop for 3000 at 1440p.Hwunboxed got the same results,3600 was same as 8400/9400at 1080p but somehow a few fps behind at 1400p.Makes no sense whatsoever but it's repeatable.
I guess high refresh gamers couldn't really care less about 7nm and cores,Intel's own early 10nm isn't gonna be better than mature 14nm either.It just feels crazy cause I have the first ever 14nm intel's cpu form 2015,upgrading to 14nm in 2020 would feel weird.


----------



## londiste (Aug 5, 2019)

HTC said:


> How about minimums? Also: do you experience any stutter with either CPU?


No noticeable stutter that I could see.
Minimums are a hard thing to measure without a much more serious (and time-consuming) approach. 
Stuff that benchmarks blurt out show 3600X having more headroom in terms of CPU as expected (12 threads vs 6) but it does not seem to matter today. Long-term, maybe.


----------



## Lorec (Aug 6, 2019)

GamerGuy said:


> Got my rig up and running, one issue is driving me nuts though, GB monitoring software reports crazy spikes in temps, one moment it idles at about 33C, it spikes to 60+C when I am installing some software, temps would be all over the place till the installation is done, then it'd drop back to 30+C within seconds. When I open GPUZ, it'd spike, when GPUZ has been loaded, it'd drop back down to idle temps again. Either the software monitoring program, or my AIO pump is screwy.......  Regardless, RGB does look good, though the extra RGB cables and where to plug them into gave me quite a migraine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Im liking this build so much, simple yet it pleasures the eye. Why my builds everytime get so incredibly complicated and after all that work it just doesn't feel "fresh" anymore.


----------



## phanbuey (Aug 6, 2019)

londiste said:


> No noticeable stutter that I could see.
> Minimums are a hard thing to measure without a much more serious (and time-consuming) approach.
> Stuff that benchmarks blurt out show 3600X having more headroom in terms of CPU as expected (12 threads vs 6) but it does not seem to matter today. Long-term, maybe.



yeah you kind of have to play it by feels... personally im more sensitive to frame variation more than anything - i can play something at 50+ fps just fine if it stays there, but if it varies from 120 to 50's it's the worst.


----------



## GamerGuy (Aug 6, 2019)

Lorec said:


> Im liking this build so much, simple yet it pleasures the eye. Why my builds everytime get so incredibly complicated and after all that work it just doesn't feel "fresh" anymore.


Ah, that's because I did NOT post a pic of the other side, cables are an utter mess, and having extra RGB cables do not help.....at all!   Thanks for the compliment though, I'm in the process of tidying up cables, and finalizing my system specs with an additional 4TB Samsung 860 EVO and a 6TB WD Black HDD. Games that I play regularly go into the SSD's, the WD Black is for other games that I play on and off.


----------



## Nuckles56 (Aug 6, 2019)

Well my 3700x is now on its way


----------



## unluckymsk (Aug 6, 2019)

My ryzen 5 3600 with noctua nh-u12s on Asus  Prime X-370 Pro gets 4.2 on light load, 4.15-4,1 on gaming.
Can i get some more MHZ from my rig?

By the way my  G-Skill Ripjaws 5 (profile from box 16-18-18-18 3200) works at 15-15-15-15-30@3333 super fine.


----------



## GamerGuy (Aug 6, 2019)

Did I make a mistake buying a set of Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 3733Mhz Gunmetal Grey? I thought that was just the point where 1:1 divider on the Infinity Fabric (or something like that, anything above that and the divider gets skewed).


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 6, 2019)

I got the ryzen 3600 but its only a 65w cooler, I want a proper one.  here is my WTB thread. -prefer the Ryzen 3900x stock cooler or the 3800x one. better I use it on my 3600 then let it go to waste.









						[WTB] - [WTB][USA] Wraith Prism Cooler the 105w or 95w version, not 65w.
					

Preferably from a Ryzen 3900x owner who has no need for it. I really don't want to use my big giant medieval Noctua heatsink anymore, it's just a pain to deal with on cable management.




					www.techpowerup.com
				






GamerGuy said:


> Did I make a mistake buying a set of Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 3733Mhz Gunmetal Grey? I thought that was just the point where 1:1 divider on the Infinity Fabric (or something like that, anything above that and the divider gets skewed).



patriot viper steel is a bit more unstable than G.Skill, you did not make a mistake but I have read lot of people have stability issues with the viper steel. I'd recommend you do what I did:  https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232217?Item=N82E16820232217 get this 3200 cas 14 b-die ram its on sale for $113 shipped. cheapest B-Die has ever been as far as I am aware. I intend to OC mine to 3600 CAS 14 or 15, whichever ends up being stable at around 1.38v max


----------



## johnny-r (Aug 6, 2019)

Yep! got my Ryzen 3600 a week ago and I love it !

updated the bios (Flashback)  on my new mobo - Msi B450m Gaming plus to get the CPU recognizable, still using my Msi Armour RX 580 from 2 years ago and I got me G.Skill Ribjaws 3200Mhz - CL16, want to try 15.15.15.xx and see what happens

CPU idling temps perfect ! runs on load max 63 degrees C, stress test got it up to 70 degrees C, I like my bench results nice to see she's hanging out with the 8 core big gun CPU's  : )

big upgrade for me, coming from a 3rd gen Intel core i7 3770k from 2012, especially in Rage 2 and Shadow of the tombraider, games feels super smooth now, I still have a older 27" IPS Full HD Dell monitor (75hz ) but is fine for now, nice to see FPS above 80 in the above mentioned games.

I can appreciate this ! Love my new AMD setup !


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 6, 2019)

GamerGuy said:


> Did I make a mistake buying a set of Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 3733Mhz Gunmetal Grey? I thought that was just the point where 1:1 divider on the Infinity Fabric (or something like that, anything above that and the divider gets skewed).



I got the 3600 kit and it's been way better than I expected.
It doesn't work with XMP, but after a little bit of tweaking, this is the end result.
And it depends on the motherboard, most change to 1:2 above 3600, but you can manually set it to 1:1. In my case, I could increase the memory speed to 3733 if I relaxed the timings a bit, but I had to set it to 1:1 manually.


----------



## jesdals (Aug 6, 2019)

jesdals said:


> Change memory out for a 3600MHz kit from Corsair CMK16GX4M2B3600C18
> View attachment 128464
> It will boot with CL15, but still shows as CL16 in windows, same behavior with CL17 ending up as CL18 in windows - could not make them boot at CL14.


Disabled XMP and got CL14 to work, still no luck wit odd CL settings, but then happy with the new settings


----------



## Vario (Aug 6, 2019)

jesdals said:


> Disabled XMP and got CL14 to work, still no luck wit odd CL settings, but then happy with the new settings
> View attachment 128587


Pretty nice!


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 6, 2019)

jesdals said:


> still no luck wit odd CL settings


Disable gear down mode.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 6, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Disable gear down mode.


I thought you enabled it to use odd CL?


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 7, 2019)

I decided to say screw it, it's going to be a long time before Intel's response at least 7 months before 10nm desktop parts come out. Tired of waiting.

See system specs under my name if you want to see my new build.  I have a few questions though.

I don't want to manually OC the CPU, and the ram should work just fine on XMP.  So what BIOS settings do I set it at and what power plan do I use in Win 10 settings to get best gaming performance? Auto OC or PBR (all this new terminology and options annoy me) so just tell me what the go to is so I can set it and leave it. I will be using stock cooler on high mode with a strong fan curve.


----------



## Vario (Aug 7, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I decided to say screw it, it's going to be a long time before Intel's response at least 7 months before 10nm desktop parts come out. Tired of waiting.
> 
> See system specs under my name if you want to see my new build.  I have a few questions though.
> 
> I don't want to manually OC the CPU, and the ram should work just fine on XMP.  So what BIOS settings do I set it at and what power plan do I use in Win 10 settings to get best gaming performance? Auto OC or PBR (all this new terminology and options annoy me) so just tell me what the go to is so I can set it and leave it. I will be using stock cooler on high mode with a strong fan curve.


Did some googling and it appears you download the latest chipset driver from AMD's website and it will install the Ryzen balanced plan.
Did you decide to sell the 9700 system in your controversial thread?


----------



## londiste (Aug 7, 2019)

Vario said:


> Did some googling and it appears you download the latest chipset driver from AMD's website and it will install the Ryzen balanced plan.








						Community Update #5: Let’s Talk Clocks, Voltages, and Destiny 2
					

Hello! Thank you for all of the interest and excitement around 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ Processors. We have some important updates today on our voltages, clockspeeds, and Destiny 2!     We diagnosed and resolved the issue causing software monitoring tools to report high voltages and clockspeeds at the...




					community.amd.com
				



I can confirm that AMD Chipset drivers install Ryzen Balanced Plan - it is even a separate choice in the installer, checked by default.


----------



## HD64G (Aug 7, 2019)

New video from HU for RAM effect on Zen2 cpus. Just check below some screenshots from the video. These gains could get AMD CPUs end being faster than Intel's in gaming for CPU sensitive game engines. And as anyone can see, it doesn't even need expensive RAM kits for Zen2. It just needs some tighing of the RAM timings, helped from the great tool named "DRAM calculator for Ryzen" made by *@1usmus. *


----------



## londiste (Aug 7, 2019)

HD64G said:


> New video from HU for RAM effect on Zen2 cpus. Just check below some screenshots from the video. These gains could get AMD CPUs end being faster than Intel's in gaming for CPU sensitive game engines. And as anyone can see, it doesn't even need expensive RAM kits for Zen2. It just needs some tighing of the RAM timings, helped from the great tool named "DRAM calculator for Ryzen" made by *@1usmus. *


You do realize that RAM timings are not Ryzen-specific, right? Specific optimal values are but timings can be tightened on Intel system as well.


----------



## HTC (Aug 7, 2019)

HD64G said:


> New video from HU for RAM effect on Zen2 cpus. Just look the screenshot from the video. These gains could get AMD CPUs end being faster than Intel's in gaming for CPU sensitive game engines. And as anyone can see, it doesn't even need expensive RAM kits for Zen2. It just needs some tighing of the RAM timings, helped from the great tool named "DRAM calculator for Ryzen" made by *@1usmus. *
> 
> View attachment 128692View attachment 128693
> View attachment 128694



Just saw that video and HU was always mentioning the difference of 3200 CL14 VS 3800 [manual] FCLK 1900 when he should have focused on the difference of 3000 CL16 VS 3000 [manual] FCLK 1500: that's where the biggest difference occurred.



londiste said:


> You do realize that *RAM timings are not Ryzen-specific*, right? Specific optimal values are but timings can be tightened on Intel system as well.



While true, due to how the IF works, Ryzen platform is more sensitive to it than Intel's platforms.


----------



## HD64G (Aug 7, 2019)

londiste said:


> You do realize that RAM timings are not Ryzen-specific, right? Specific optimal values are but timings can be tightened on Intel system as well.


Agreed but Ryzen CPUs are more sensitive to RAM latency than Intel CPUs and more than that, this great tool for RAM made by our community member is very easy and fast and can help even a noob to tune a Zen2 CPU easier than an experienced user can tune an Intel one in days.


----------



## londiste (Aug 7, 2019)

HD64G said:


> Agreed but Ryzen CPUs are more sensitive to RAM latency than Intel CPUs


Why? Ryzens are more sensitive to RAM speed due to it being tied to IF frequency but latency specifically?


----------



## jesdals (Aug 7, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Disable gear down mode.


I thought that its should be enabled, but any way - my current CL14 settings is better and I am not going to get better timings than these


----------



## HD64G (Aug 7, 2019)

londiste said:


> Why? Ryzens are more sensitive to RAM speed due to it being tied to IF frequency but latency specifically?


Maybe because they have higher latency than Intel CPUs and have bigger margins for improvement?


----------



## londiste (Aug 7, 2019)

HD64G said:


> Maybe because they have higher latency than Intel CPUs and have bigger margins for improvement?


They don't. Memory latency with same timings is the same regardless of the system. 
Ryzen might have bigger need for improvement and with focus on memory frequency giving noticeable improvement due to increased IF frequency makes people more eager to tweak.


----------



## phanbuey (Aug 7, 2019)

@HD64G - the skylake X systems behave exactly like this too - specifically if you tweak some timings they start to perform like completely different systems.  Specifically the TRFC timing.


Ryzen's overall AIDA latency is about ~30% more when comparing 3600 to 3600 DDR4 vs intel Coffee Lakes, which sit in the low-mid 40ns (AIDA 64 overall mem latency) where as Ryzen 2 sits in low 60's and Ryzen 1 sits in the mid 70s-80s - not sure exactly why but this latency metric is very useful when predicting game performance, in my experience, at high FPS - 


i've used the same monitor across skylake, CFL-X, Ryzen 1, and Skylake X and the coffee lakes and skylakes are gaming monsters also have the lowest scores in latency.  Those timings probably brought that overall latency way down.





__





						Discussion - Skylake Microarchitecture and Benchmarks/Games
					

Let's deep dive factors affecting Skylake's performance on certain games/benchmarks. Skylake and other Intel CPUs have several performance counters that can be programmed with events documented somewhat well in the Intel Software Developer's Manual (download the combined volume pdf from their...




					forums.anandtech.com
				




Might have to do with how fast the entire memory subsystem can react to cache misses and erratic game code -- would love to know for sure why this is though.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 7, 2019)

I thought that ryzen being more sensitive to ram speed and especially ram latency was because the interconnect between the cpu dies runs at the same speed as the memory. I could be a little off.


----------



## phanbuey (Aug 7, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I thought that ryzen being more sensitive to ram speed and especially ram latency was because the interconnect between the cpu dies runs at the same speed as the memory. I could be a little off.




that too - but skylake X mesh doesnt speed up with ram, but for some reason those timings make a gigantic difference.

I guess when you have a slower mesh/IF interconnect the speed at which regular memory can respond matters more?  You don't have the ringbus' response times to compensate.


----------



## londiste (Aug 8, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I thought that ryzen being more sensitive to ram speed and especially ram latency was because the interconnect between the cpu dies runs at the same speed as the memory. I could be a little off.


IF is tied to the RAM speed. Timings-derived latency has nothing to do with that.
Timings have everything to do with latency of the memory itself.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 8, 2019)

jesdals said:


> I thought that its should be enabled, but any way - my current CL14 settings is better and I am not going to get better timings than these



Please stop posting thumbnails...


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 9, 2019)

Gigabyte just released UEFI F5m for the Aorus X570 Master and it's being quite odd to say the least.
You can no longer run 1:1 ratio over 3600/1800 and it doesn't even seem to care that my RAM is set to a higher speed.
On the other hand, AIDA64 is apparently seeing my CPU clock speed as 4500MHz now...
Judging by HWiNFO it also boosts to 4500MHz regularly now, even during very light loads, i.e. just typing this text in a browser with "nothing" else running.
*Edit: *Oh, memory latencies are also shot as you can see, I gained 8ns with this UEFI.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 9, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Gigabyte just released UEFI F5m for the Aorus X570 Master and it's being quite odd to say the least.
> You can no longer run 1:1 ratio over 3600/1800 and it doesn't even seem to care that my RAM is set to a higher speed.
> On the other hand, AIDA64 is apparently seeing my CPU clock speed as 4500MHz now...
> Judging by HWiNFO it also boosts to 4500MHz regularly now, even during very light loads, i.e. just typing this text in a browser with "nothing" else running.
> ...



maybe you can try 3400 cas 14 1:1?  200mhz loss for a cpu gain would def be worth it if it works


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 9, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> maybe you can try 3400 cas 14 1:1?  200mhz loss for a cpu gain would def be worth it if it works


Why bother when I had this with CAS16 at 3733 1:1?


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 9, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Why bother when I had this with CAS16 at 3733 1:1?



oh i thought you said the new BIOS broke that, I must have misread, nevermind


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 9, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> oh i thought you said the new BIOS broke that, I must have misread, nevermind


Yes, but it takes me a minute to roll back to the older one...


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 9, 2019)

Do you guys think a Corsair H60 AIO would cool my 3700x by at least 10-15 celsius better than the stock cooler with toggle on hi on the stock cooler?

if it won't then I will just stick with stock. I was also going to remove the stock corsair fan and do 2x 140mm Noctua fans (they fit in 120mm slots thanks to unique circular design), on th H60... with strong fan curve it might cool really well... I already own the Noctua fans... I am considering it. not sure yet though.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 9, 2019)

Rolled back and tried 3800/1900 1:1 and look at that...
I guess it might not be as hard to achieve as it was made out to be...







lynx29 said:


> Do you guys think a Corsair H60 AIO would cool my 3700x by at least 10-15 celsius better than the stock cooler with toggle on hi on the stock cooler?
> 
> if it won't then I will just stick with stock. I was also going to remove the stock corsair fan and do 2x 140mm Noctua fans (they fit in 120mm slots thanks to unique circular design), on th H60... with strong fan curve it might cool really well... I already own the Noctua fans... I am considering it. not sure yet though.



No, maybe 5c better. It's a very basic AIO and doesn't seem to perform that much better than air coolers.
Only way you'll find it is to give it a go if you already have the parts.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 9, 2019)

Howe can you tell if it is 1:1 or not? just curious i don't see it (new to AMD ryzen platform)


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 9, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Howe can you tell if it is 1:1 or not? just curious i don't see it (new to AMD ryzen platform)


1900MHz Memory Bus, DDR4-3800 Memory Type. The memory is actually running at 1900MHz, but at double data rate.


----------



## londiste (Aug 9, 2019)

I would assume 1:1 in this context means IF/MEM clocks, what are your IF clocks at?
As far as I can see, AIDA does not report that.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 9, 2019)

Memory Bus in Aida is Fabric Clock as far as this is concerned.

Easier way, Ryzen Master, Coupled Mode: ON





The odd thing is, I get slower benchmark scores in every single benchmark I've tested, whereas reading reviews, increasing the memory clock equals performance gain in almost all scenarios.


----------



## Wavetrex (Aug 9, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Rolled back and tried 3800/1900 1:1 and look at that...
> I guess it might not be as hard to achieve as it was made out to be...


I got 3733 / 1866 1:1 to work on 3700x and ye olde x370 mobo, new bios with AGESA 1.0.0.3 AB(?) with my Ballistix Elite

These are the memory settings used - booted and ran various tests in windows:





However, running benchmarks of all kinds, including playing my games and watching min-FPS (1% low) dips, I noticed that 3400 - CL14 with tuned timings are actually faster, sometimes by a significant margin.




This might not be valid for everybody, but at least for me, CL14 / 3400 beats CL16 / 3733 hands down.
Many other timings are considerably tighter for the "Fast" 3400 profile than for "Safe" 3733

The only benchmark that "lost" on 3400 CL14 is AIDA64 memory test...
(Does anyone actually care about what that program says? I think the "latency" result is complete bollocks.
Test with your games, test with your software. Encode video. Run simulations... if those get faster or slower... that's what matters, not a number in AIDA64)

Why not use "Fast" 3733 ?
Well, I'm not trying to burn my expensive memory down... the voltage for that would require almost 1.5v.



Thanks, but no thanks.

Overall, I'm thoroughly impressed by the capability of this CPU and it's memory controller, especially considering that it was done as just a "CPU+MEM upgrade", instead of replacing the entire dam' computer like it happened every time before with all Intel -> Intel upgrades.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 9, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Howe can you tell if it is 1:1 or not? just curious i don't see it (new to AMD ryzen platform)


in CPUz, it is the NB Frequency found in the memory tab.


----------



## Xzibit (Aug 9, 2019)

Wavetrex said:


> I got 3733 / 1866 1:1 to work on 3700x and ye olde x370 mobo, new bios with AGESA 1.0.0.3 AB(?) with my Ballistix Elite
> 
> These are the memory settings used - booted and ran various tests in windows:
> 
> ...



You don't have to use those.

I'm running mine at stock timings settings @ 1900mhz v1.35. Only difference is i'm on a X570 board w 1.0.0.3*a*


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 9, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> 1.0.0.3


A? AB? ABB?


----------



## Xzibit (Aug 9, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> A? AB? ABB?



Combo 1.0.0.3. Beats me if its a or ab

Dam you!! Made me look into it. 

Its 1.0.0.3a


----------



## Wavetrex (Aug 9, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> You don't have to use those.
> 
> I'm running mine at stock timings settings @ 1900mhz v1.36. Only difference is i'm on a X570 board w 1.0.0.3


Yeah, stock timings are easy...
My memory runs at stock timings at rated XMP (3600) without any errors even below stock voltage ( 3.3 is enough )

However, not sure if you checked how tight the tuned timings in my "FAST" screenshot (from Ryzen Master) are compared to stock. In some cases it's HALF the number of cycles !
CL14 is also not easy to get stable...

That voltage is needed.
I spent quite a lot of hours experimenting, and while the system might boot with lower voltage, it's not stable... one little WHEA error here, one little memory corruption there... a tiny crash when at least expected...

---
Question is - Does it worth tightening the timings and overvolting memory?
- If you run benchmarks for record setting purposes... not really, not with Ryzen 3000 anyway, that huge cache is enough.
- For actual usage of the computer... well, it seems that yes !

HWU ran a lot of memory tests, including tuned values with DRAM Calculator:









Some games get absolutely incredibly faster with tuned timings than with stock ones.
Especially those "open world" ones which store massive amounts of active data in memory (every entity that is anywhere near where the player can look or interact).
The games that run "on a rail" not much, as their inner loop seems to fit in cache.

The faster those random bits of data that are spread all over the memory can be accessed, the faster the game will go.
Obviously that's a particular situation that doesn't apply for everyone, so I wouldn't recommend to anyone to go torture their memory unless their typical workload actually benefits.

I play mostly strategy games, with lots and lots of units doing things and interacting with each other, and the tighter timings seem to help significantly !

Also compiling C# code seems to be getting faster with tighter timings, but that's subjective, my code is very small, it finishes anyway in a matter of seconds.

Other things I did that seem to have little to no variance with memory speeds and timings:
- 3D rendering (Blender) has almost no impact at all in the simple scenes that I do. Maybe with a movie-studio like ultra-complex scene it would, but I'm not there... I just make tiny sprites for a platformer-like game I'm dabbling with.
- Video encoding x264 seems to have almost no impact at all, I'm guessing the algorithm fully fits in cache, but x265 does... a bit, not much
- Video editing seems to behave exactly the same, slow ram fast ram... I feel no difference whatsoever.

That's about it for now.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 9, 2019)

It would seem the single chiplet CPUs don't scale nearly as well as the dual chiplet CPUs when it comes to memory speed. Sadly this one doesn't cover a range of timings.
Also, so much for the chipsets being equal in terms of performance, although this might be a UEFI related issue too.













						AMD Ryzen 7 3700X Ryzen 9 3900X X470 vs X570 Review | Memory Benchmarks | CPU & Mainboard
					

Memory Benchmarks




					www.overclock3d.net
				




It would also seem that both performance and latency is somewhat dependent on the memory ICs. Although, again tested with a 3900X...

















						AMD Ryzen 3000 – Part IV – DDR4 Scaling – ENGLISH Version
					

DDR4 Scaling   PAGE GUIDE FOR THE MOBILE READERS 1 & 2 – Background info and news regarding the AMD Zen 2 memory sub-system 3 – Testbed 4 – 12 – CPU Tests 13 &#8211…




					lab501.ro


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

I don't think AIDA 64 (or any other similar program) currently reads latency and bandwidth *on Zen 2 CPUs* correctly. Why? Because of this:





Notice how low the bandwidth is between 3000 [manual] FCLK 1500 VS 3800 [CL16] FCLK 1900: that's a HUGE gulf right there right? And yet:









So long as the GPU is not the limiting factor, @ the RAM speeds i mentioned the games are practically tied, even though they are "miles apart" in AIDA 64. *I think* it's the unusually high amount of cache that's throwing AIDA 64's readings so off in Zen 2 CPUs.

In synthetic benches such as AIDA 64, there's a CLEAR difference but in real world situations (the two games shown above) there's almost zero difference.


----------



## londiste (Aug 9, 2019)

Memory being "fast" is not a single measure. Bandwidth bound or latency bound are different and games are generally more latency bound.
You used the bandwidth graph while latency one is much more relevant and similar in this case:


Spoiler



















						Testing 3rd-Gen Ryzen DDR4 Memory Performance and Scaling
					

When we reviewed Ryzen's latest iteration we briefly checked out different DDR4 memory speeds but now that things have settled we were put on a mission to...




					www.techspot.com


----------



## Wavetrex (Aug 9, 2019)

HTC said:


> ..... charts .....



I would say that 112 fps to 132 fps by having better memory is quite an achievement !
Or in WWZ the min 1% from 151 to 212 is massive !!!

It's not the raw/average fps that makes a game run pleasant and smoothly, but the lack of those tiny stutters and drops in fps ( 1%, 0.1% )
Maybe the average fps is not increased significantly with faster RAM, but when the fps drops are considerably less severe, the game feels much, much better.

Yes, RAM is the last thing that needs to be upgraded and tuned, you start with the GPU of course, then the CPU and at the last RAM.
But for those people that already have 2080 Ti (or 2080 Super, it's close enough for most games), already have the best AMD CPU ( 3900X )... what else can they do ? RAM of course, at "sweet-spot" clocks, with tuning.
For those people the $50-100 price difference to slow RAM is irrelevant ! If that last few % can be gained, they will be gained.


That being said, nobody recommends fast ram to anyone on a tight budget, that's 100% clear and unquestionable.[/QUOTE]


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

londiste said:


> Memory being "fast" is not a single measure. Bandwidth bound or latency bound are different and games are generally more latency bound.
> You used the bandwidth graph while latency one is much more relevant and similar in this case:
> 
> 
> ...



There's still roughly 8% difference in latency between the two and over 25% in bandwidth suggesting there would be a massive difference in the real application results and yet, as shown with the two examples provided, both min and avg FPS are nearly identical in non-GPU-bound scenarios.

The huge differences shown in synthetic applications don't translate in to real world games (these two @ least) suggesting the synthetic applications don't read latency and / or bandwidth correctly, @ least not in Zen 2 CPUs.


----------



## londiste (Aug 9, 2019)

Wavetrex said:


> I would say that 112 fps to 132 fps by having better memory is quite an achievement !
> Or in WWZ the min 1% from 151 to 212 is massive !!!


This is very application-dependent. There are games that clearly benefit hugely from fast (low latency) memory and others that simply won't. Ryzen additionally complicates observing this due to changing IF frequency so concentrate on the 3800 vs 3800 Manual and 3000 vs 3000 Manual differences in TechSpot graphs. These clearly show latency making a very noticeable difference.

Observing bandwidth impact is more difficult because of different IF speeds but some previous tests as well as tests on Intel CPUs generally show bandwidth is much less of a factor in general for games.


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

londiste said:


> This is very application-dependent. There are games that clearly benefit hugely from fast (low latency) memory and others that simply won't. Ryzen additionally complicates observing this due to changing IF frequency *so concentrate on the 3800 vs 3800 Manual and 3000 vs 3000 Manual differences in TechSpot graphs*.



Actually, i said the 3800 CL16 and the 3000 Manual only because those two had the *closest of games results* while *simultaneously* had the *biggest differences in AIDA 64*: @ least of those presented in the video.


----------



## Wavetrex (Aug 9, 2019)

londiste said:


> This is very application-dependent. There are games that clearly benefit hugely from fast (low latency) memory and others that simply won't.


That is very obvious, some software loops can run almost completely from the cache, others need to poke the memory constantly.

But if possible to have that performance gain by tuning whatever existing memory you have, why not do it ?
Even if only a few applications benefit from it.

I don't think that any software will go slower with tuned memory.

---
The one thing that would be dumb is replacing existing memory (if already at 3000 or so) with faster one, and spending full price on that.
But if building completely new system, and budget is not a significant issue, I would always go with the quickest RAM for these CPUs, which seem to be those that clock at 3600-3800 or can go CL14 at 3400-3533.

Even faster is pointless for any of existing Ryzens, once IF clock is decoupled there are no more gains.


----------



## londiste (Aug 9, 2019)

HTC said:


> Actually, i said the 3800 CL16 and the 3000 Manual only because those two had the *closest of games results* while *simultaneously* had the *biggest differences in AIDA 64*: @ least of those presented in the video.


There are 3 variables here and this is still simplified because there are other minor factors as well as all these working in combination:
1. Bandwidth (on the AIDA64 graph you posted), 3800 is about 26% more than 3000 and AIDA64 results reflect exactly that. 
Increases linearly with memory speed but timings have very little or no effect on bandwidth.
2. IF frequency increase will increase the communication speed and bandwidth between IO Die and CCD(s), potentially for performance boost.
This is directly affected by memory speed but not timings.
3. Latency 67.4 vs 72.6, 3000 Manual is only 7% slower. AC:O and WWZ results show the same 6-7% difference. 
This is affected by both speed as well as timings. In case of Ryzens also IF frequency.



Wavetrex said:


> Even faster is pointless for any of existing Ryzens, once IF clock is decoupled there are no more gains.


We are talking about OC and heavy tweaking here. It is always worth going faster - there is no good reason to increase the speed beyond 3600-3800 (depending on how fast your specific CPU can run IF at) but you can always try to further decrease timings to get lower latency.


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

londiste said:


> 3. Latency 67.4 vs 72.6, 3000 Manual is only 7% slower. *AC:O and WWZ results show the same 6-7% difference.*



No. In min FPS / avg FPS for 3000 Manual VS 3800 CL16:

AC:O - 87 / 123 VS 87 / 124 for the 2080Ti and 80 / 98 VS 81 / 99 for the 5700
WWZ - 189 / 237 VS 189 / 242 for the 2080Ti and 164 / 210 VS 169 / 211 for the 5700

In either case, it's mostly GPU bound with the 580 so i'm not counting those since they're almost identical across RAM configs.

As can be seen with both 2080Ti and 5700, there's nowhere near the difference shown in AIDA 64.


----------



## londiste (Aug 9, 2019)

Your post at the end of last page:
Assassin's Creed: Origins - 92/132 (3800 CL16) vs 87/123 (3000 Manual) is 6%/7% faster.
World War Z - 212/251 (3800 CL16) vs 189/237 (3000 Manual) is 12%/6% faster.

WWZ 1%/Min is due to something other than latency but the rest match just fine.
5700 and 580 results are pointless in this regard, these are largely GPU-limited.


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

londiste said:


> Your post at the end of last page:
> *Assassin's Creed: Origins - 92/132 (3800 CL16) vs 87/123 (3000 Manual) is 6%/7% faster.
> World War Z - 212/251 (3800 CL16) vs 189/237 (3000 Manual) is 12%/6% faster.*
> 
> ...



No no no, dude: you're comparing the WRONG ones.

I said repeatedly 3000 Manual VS 3800 CL16: *NOT 3800 Manual*. The reason is because the results are nearly identical in the games mentioned while showing great difference in AIDA 64: that was the whole point.


----------



## londiste (Aug 9, 2019)

Oh, you are right. Sorry.
Interesting. I wonder what did they actually change in terms of timings.

Edit:
OMG, 3 different kits with various timings. What a mess.


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

londiste said:


> Oh, you are right. Sorry.
> Interesting. I wonder what did they actually change in terms of timings.



No worries.

As can clearly be seen, those two games are latency sensitive (bandwidth too???) and, judging by AIDA64, there should be a clear winner but, as the actual results showed, it was a tie, basically.

This *suggests* AIDA 64 doesn't properly "read" Zen 2 CPU's latency / bandwidth, and that's my point.


----------



## londiste (Aug 9, 2019)

Not really. AIDA64 does benchmarks that only measure one thing, latency or bandwidth in this case.
Games are a lot more complex in what they do. TechSpot results have very little control of parameters in the tests. All the memory parameters change at the same time.


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

londiste said:


> Not really. AIDA64 does benchmarks that only measure one thing, latency or bandwidth in this case.
> Games are a lot more complex in what they do. TechSpot results have very little control of parameters in the tests. All the memory parameters change at the same time.



But, in the specific case of games that are latency sensitive, substantial differences in latency should translate to game's performance, no? Not in either of these two examples.

Unfortunately, TechSpot didn't publish the actual RAM parameters for 3000 Manual, so we can't compare the differences


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 9, 2019)

HTC said:


> I don't think AIDA 64 (or any other similar program) currently reads latency and bandwidth *on Zen 2 CPUs* correctly. Why? Because of this:
> 
> View attachment 128814
> 
> ...



what is teh CAS latency on the 3800 Manual, the one that keeps getting top score? I'm guessing 15 or 14?  so 3800 cas 14 or cas 15 at 1:1 manual OC with slight voltage bump is the sweet spot?


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> what is teh CAS latency on the 3800 Manual, the one that keeps getting top score? I'm guessing 15 or 14?  so 3800 cas 14 or cas 15 at 1:1 manual OC with slight voltage bump is the sweet spot?



CAS latency was 64.4.

He didn't post the full parameters of 3000 Manual, like he did with 3800:





I'm guessing he didn't just adjust the main timings but also the sub-timings and voltages for both Manual cases.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 9, 2019)

HTC said:


> Dunno: not posted either.
> 
> I'm guessing he didn't just adjust the main timings but also the sub-timings and voltages.



I'm not advanced enough for that, so I will just stick with aiming for 3600 CAS 14 with a slight voltage bump, my plan is to XMP on my 3200 CAS b-die - reboot into BIOS, change the 3200 to 3600 and the voltage from 1.35 to 1.39 leave the cas at 14 and everything else same, and see if that is stable. if not i will try 3500, then 3400 until i get it stable. or maybe i will try 1.40 volt before i lower the mhz a bit


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I'm not advanced enough for that, so I will just stick with aiming for 3600 CAS 14 with a slight voltage bump, my plan is to XMP on my 3200 CAS b-die - reboot into BIOS, change the 3200 to 3600 and the voltage from 1.35 to 1.39 leave the cas at 14 and everything else same, and see if that is stable. if not i will try 3500, then 3400 until i get it stable. or maybe i will try 1.40 volt before i lower the mhz a bit



I corrected my reply (edited it) as CAS latency was indeed shown.

EDIT

*WHAT AN IDIOT*: the pic i showed in the previous post is of the *actual manual timings for both 3000 and 3800.* DUH ....



> We ran the T-Force Dark DDR4-3000 memory in its out of the box configuration with the XMP profile loaded and nothing else altered. Then we manually tuned all timings for an optimal Samsung S-die configuration at 3000 MT/s. The G.Skill FlareX memory was tested in its out of the box spec with XMP loaded and then also lowered the memory speed to 3000 MT/s, so we have a CL14 and CL16 comparison between the FlareX and T-Force memory. Finally, the TridentZ Neo also in the out of the box spec at 3600 MT/s, a 3800 MT/s overclocked configuration using the XMP timings, and then a max OC configuration at 3800 MT/s with manual timings.
> 
> 
> *Here is a quick look at the manual timings used for the DDR4-3000 and 3800 configurations.* If you’d like to tune up your own memory then we suggest downloading the Ryzen DRAM Calculator, it’s a seriously cool little tool.



That "quick look" is the pic i posted in my previous reply.

Still dunno about voltages, though.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 9, 2019)

Do you think my plan is a good one though? My previous post you quoted there.

_I'm not advanced enough for that, so I will just stick with aiming for 3600 CAS 14 with a slight voltage bump, my plan is to XMP on my 3200 CAS b-die - reboot into BIOS, change the 3200 to 3600 and the voltage from 1.35 to 1.39 leave the cas at 14 and everything else same, and see if that is stable. if not i will try 3500, then 3400 until i get it stable. or maybe i will try 1.40 volt before i lower the mhz a bit_


----------



## jesdals (Aug 9, 2019)

To get my timings I have to disable XMP and give 1,45V


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Do you think my plan is a good one though? My previous post you quoted there.
> 
> _I'm not advanced enough for that, so I will just stick with aiming for 3600 CAS 14 with a slight voltage bump, my plan is to XMP on my 3200 CAS b-die - reboot into BIOS, change the 3200 to 3600 and the voltage from 1.35 to 1.39 leave the cas at 14 and everything else same, and see if that is stable. if not i will try 3500, then 3400 until i get it stable. or maybe i will try 1.40 volt before i lower the mhz a bit_



Dunno, dude: i may actually be more of a noob with this than you. To top it off, i can't run the Ryzen tool in Ubuntu (don't know if it's even possible, but i suspect not) so ... there's that as well ...

The only reason i quoted it before was to let you know i had edited my previous post, correcting my mistake in said reply.


----------



## Zareek (Aug 9, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Do you guys think a Corsair H60 AIO would cool my 3700x by at least 10-15 celsius better than the stock cooler with toggle on hi on the stock cooler?
> 
> if it won't then I will just stick with stock. I was also going to remove the stock corsair fan and do 2x 140mm Noctua fans (they fit in 120mm slots thanks to unique circular design), on th H60... with strong fan curve it might cool really well... I already own the Noctua fans... I am considering it. not sure yet though.



My idle dropped by 8-10C at idle and 10-15C fully loaded switching from the stock cooler to an H60 on my 3800X.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 9, 2019)

Zareek said:


> My idle dropped by 8-10C at idle and 10-15C fully loaded switching from the stock cooler to an H60 on my 3800X.



was that just with the stock one fan on the H60 radiator? cause i can probably do even better temps since i will be using 2x 140mm nocuta in push pull...   i think i might get H60 now


----------



## Nordic (Aug 9, 2019)

Even though my memory has xmp of 3600mhz Cas 18, I can not run the memory at 3600mhz. 3533mhz Cas 16 seems to be the best I can do.

3200mhz Cas 18, Best time: 130.31, Random Latency: 86.31
3533mhz Cas 18 , Best time: 117.62 , Random Latency: 80.64
3200mhz Cas 16, Best time: 120.5, Random Latency: 90.62
3533mhz Cas 16 , Best time 109.73: , Random Latency: 82.37
3200mhz Cas 14 , Best time: 120.5 , Random Latency: 85.74
3466mhz Cas 14 , Best time: 110.69 , Random Latency: 81.28
3533mhz Cas 14 , Best time: 111.6, Random Latency: 80.06 (Unstable)
3600mhz will not post at all.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 9, 2019)

What programs do you use to test the memory OC stability? Just curious, I need to know what to us besides just gaming. @Nordic and anyone else


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

Nordic said:


> Even though my memory has xmp of 3600mhz Cas 18, I can not run the memory at 3600mhz. 3533mhz Cas 16 seems to be the best I can do.
> 
> 3200mhz Cas 18, Best time: 130.31, Random Latency: 86.31
> *3533mhz Cas 18 , Best time: 117.62 , Random Latency: 80.64*
> ...



Do you happen to own games which are sensitive to latency, like AC:O for example? If so, try the two RAM settings i highlighted and see how they perform. Latency is very close between them but the benchmark you ran gave 6.3% higher time for the CAS 18 one: will that translate in to less FPS for those RAM settings?


----------



## Nordic (Aug 9, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> What programs do you use to test the memory OC stability? Just curious, I need to know what to us besides just gaming. @Nordic and anyone else


I was using the memory test built into ryzen dram calculator. It was super convenient and actually told me if my memory was unstable.



HTC said:


> Do you happen to own games which are sensitive to latency, like AC:O for example? If so, try the two RAM settings i highlighted and see how they perform. Latency is very close between them but the benchmark you ran gave 6.3% higher time for the CAS 18 one: will that translate in to less FPS for those RAM settings?


I don't play that game. I am not sure if any of the games I play are sensative to latency. Most games I play are super sensative to single core performance though. I am doing everything I can to match intel in single core.

Did you see my 3533 Cas 16 results? It has a better time and 1ms worse latency. This is the speed I chose to run.


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I was using the memory test built into ryzen dram calculator. It was super convenient and actually told me if my memory was unstable.
> 
> 
> I don't play that game. I am not sure if any of the games I play are sensative to latency. Most games I play are super sensative to single core performance though. I am doing everything I can to match intel in single core.
> ...



I picked those two because the latency was almost the same while, @ the same time, had quite measurable difference in the time. I could have picked 3200 CL14 and 3200 CL18, which have even more difference with the time but also almost the same latency as well.

If you don't have any latency sensitive games, then never mind. I was attempting to check how similar latency but different bandwidth affect the game tested.

I can't test myself because:

a - i don't have any latency sensitive game
b - i use Ubuntu as OS


----------



## Nordic (Aug 9, 2019)

HTC said:


> I picked those two because the latency was almost the same while, @ the same time, had quite measurable difference in the time. I could have picked 3200 CL14 and 3200 CL18, which have even more difference with the time but also almost the same latency as well.
> 
> If you don't have any latency sensitive games, then never mind. I was attempting to check how similar latency but different bandwidth affect the game tested.
> 
> ...


Besides just knowledge about the specific game, how would I know if a game was memory sensative?


----------



## HTC (Aug 9, 2019)

Nordic said:


> Besides just knowledge about the specific game, how would I know if a game was memory sensative?



If the game's performance changes substantially with better timings, it's memory sensitive.

For example:







As shown, just changing the timings you get quite different performance. In this specific case, the biggest gains came from manually tuning the RAM, with 3000 Manual matching 3800 *CL16*: more noticeable with the RX 5700 but also with the 2080Ti.


----------



## Nuckles56 (Aug 10, 2019)

I've got my 3700x system up and going and it is such an improvement over my old i5 6500 system, it is now making me wonder how I stuck with that thing for as long as I did


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 10, 2019)

HTC said:


> If the game's performance changes substantially with better timings, it's memory sensitive.
> 
> For example:
> 
> ...



the problem is what the heck does manual mean, there are 50 different settings you can change when overclocking ram, so saying manual doesn't tell me anything...


----------



## HTC (Aug 10, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> the problem is what the heck does manual mean, there are 50 different settings you can change when overclocking ram, so saying manual doesn't tell me anything...



Apparently, for that review, this:





These are supposed to be the manual timings for the review.


----------



## Nuckles56 (Aug 10, 2019)

HTC said:


> Apparently, for that review, this:
> 
> View attachment 128863
> 
> These are supposed to be the manual timings for the review.


Lets just say I don't want to know what the DRAM voltage on the 3800 is as it is scary high for running 3600 at similar timings (1.45v)


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Aug 10, 2019)

B-die can be at 1.6 to 1.7v daily without any known issues. 1.45v is nothing.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 10, 2019)

Can I take those same 3000 settings and apply them to my 3200 BDIE?  and maybe change the 3200 to 3600 and voltage to 1.45? i guess only one way to find out, just try and see if the calculator says its stable or not.

does anyone know what all the settings are for G.Skill NEO 3600 CAS 14?  i'd like to copy those maybe  $280 kit, but my bdie was on sale for $113 shipped, 3200 cas 14.  that would be funny if I can OC to match exactly a 280 dollar kit


----------



## HTC (Aug 10, 2019)

Nuckles56 said:


> Lets just say I don't want to know what the DRAM voltage on the 3800 is as it is scary high for running 3600 at similar timings (1.45v)



According to the review:



> Finally, the TridentZ Neo also in the out of the box spec at 3600 MT/s, a 3800 MT/s overclocked configuration using the XMP timings, and then a max OC configuration at 3800 MT/s with manual timings.



How changing the timings affected the voltages (if @ all), dunno


----------



## Nuckles56 (Aug 10, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> B-die can be at 1.6 to 1.7v daily without any known issues. 1.45v is nothing.


I was more thinking for the IMC than the RAM itself


----------



## HTC (Aug 10, 2019)

This is the (higher speed) kit used in the review: they used this kit @ stock (CL16), @ 3800 (XMP) and @ 3800 (manual).


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Aug 10, 2019)

Nuckles56 said:


> I was more thinking for the IMC than the RAM itself



Unaffected by RAM voltage, fella. It’s not like Intel, and even then, I’ve not heard too much about chips dying due to excess RAM voltage.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 10, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> Unaffected by RAM voltage, fella. It’s not like Intel, and even then, I’ve not heard too much about chips dying due to excess RAM voltage.



what's your voltage at for 4.2 all core on the 3700x?


----------



## Nuckles56 (Aug 10, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> Unaffected by RAM voltage, fella. It’s not like Intel, and even then, I’ve not heard too much about chips dying due to excess RAM voltage.


Interesting, I didn't know that


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 10, 2019)

Nordic said:


> Even though my memory has xmp of 3600mhz Cas 18, I can not run the memory at 3600mhz. 3533mhz Cas 16 seems to be the best I can do.
> 
> 3200mhz Cas 18, Best time: 130.31, Random Latency: 86.31
> 3533mhz Cas 18 , Best time: 117.62 , Random Latency: 80.64
> ...



Odd, but what's your sub-timings? I've played around a lot with my memory as well and it doesn't like low sub-timings at all, but I can run CAS 16 all the way up 3800MHz, even though the memory is only rated at 3600MHz CAS17.
However, the other three settings have to be 18 or 19 or the system doesn't behave, either no boot or BSOD as soon as I get to the desktop.

Those are also VERY high latencies if you're using AIDA64, you should be around 70-75ns at the most.
What RAM/ICs is it?
It actually looks like your IF is not 1:1 with the memory, which is why you're seeing such high latencies.



lynx29 said:


> What programs do you use to test the memory OC stability? Just curious, I need to know what to us besides just gaming. @Nordic and anyone else


To be honest, in my case, it's either stable, or it's not. There's no maybe. I either BSOD on the desktop if it's unstable, or it just works with anything and everything I throw at it, which is quite an interesting experience as well.



Nuckles56 said:


> I've got my 3700x system up and going and it is such an improvement over my old i5 6500 system, it is now making me wonder how I stuck with that thing for as long as I did


Well, Ryzen 3000 is actually more of an upgrade over the Ryzen 1000 series than I expected and I have the same core count. My system just feels more responsive overall, which I didn't expect. I think you might've been disappointed with the 1000 series though.


----------



## Zareek (Aug 10, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> was that just with the stock one fan on the H60 radiator? cause i can probably do even better temps since i will be using 2x 140mm nocuta in push pull...   i think i might get H60 now


It's a 120mm radiator, how are you planning to use 140s? I'm using a single high static pressure 120mm fan(Nidec GentleTyphoon) on it, exhausting out the back of the case. You might get more out of it with more airflow, not sure. I had an H60 from my Ryzen 1700X build, I just swapped it over. You will see higher boosts if you can keep the chip cooler even at stock settings. That being said, I've seriosuly considered a custom loop or at least a 240. I just can't justify the expense right now. If it were me, I would be saving to put those fans on a 280 if your case fits one.



TheLostSwede said:


> Well, Ryzen 3000 is actually more of an upgrade over the Ryzen 1000 series than I expected and I have the same core county. My system just feels more responsive overall, which I didn't expect. I think you might've been disappointed with the 1000 series though.



I agree this 3800X is light years quicker than my 1700X and not just in benchmarks. Everything just feels quicker and more responsive. Totally thrilled with this upgrade, zero complaints and I don't feel like I spent too much to get it done. It's been a long time since I felt this good, especially for this long about an upgrade. Typically by now I'm already thinking about what needs to get better next. I'm pretty satisfied, maybe a bigger AiO would be nice but I don't feel like it's a pressing need.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 10, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Those are also VERY high latencies if you're using AIDA64, you should be around 70-75ns at the most.
> What RAM/ICs is it?
> It actually looks like your IF is not 1:1 with the memory, which is why you're seeing such high latencies.


I used the timings I got from the Ryzen Dram Calculator. I am not experienced with memory overclocking, and this tool made it really easy to just do what it said.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Aug 10, 2019)

can anyone provide a simple answer for those 2 questions:

*does ryzen 3000 boost the same way on b450 as x570 ? will I get the maximum boost out of 3600 on b450 ?
*does pbo work on b450 and does it work the same way as x570 ?


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 10, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> can anyone provide a simple answer for those 2 questions:
> 
> *does ryzen 3000 boost the same way on b450 as x570 ? will I get the maximum boost out of 3600 on b450 ?
> *does pbo work on b450 and does it work the same way as x570 ?



yes to question 1. not sure about queston 2. my rig is not built yet, but most of the parts are here, just waiting on my case to arrive Monday and my gpu hopefully will be here friday.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 10, 2019)

cucker tarlson said:


> can anyone provide a simple answer for those 2 questions:
> 
> *does ryzen 3000 boost the same way on b450 as x570 ? will I get the maximum boost out of 3600 on b450 ?
> *does pbo work on b450 and does it work the same way as x570 ?


To my understanding is that ryzen 3000 will boost the same on b450 and PBO works the same too. You will not get the maximum boost clock because no one regardless of motherboard is getting max boost clock.


----------



## gerardfraser (Aug 11, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Howe can you tell if it is 1:1 or not? just curious i don't see it (new to AMD ryzen platform)



Here you go.You can check out the numbers .All timings set manual for gaming benchmarks.For those games tested no difference in gaming results.

♦ 2133Mhz (16GB)CL10-10-10-10-21-(memory clock 1067x2/fabric clock 1067x2/memory controller 1067x2)
♦ 2400mhz (16GB)CL10-11-11-11-21-(memory clock 1200x2/fabric clock 1200x2/memory controller 1200x2)
♦ 2933mhz (16GB)CL12-14-13-13-26-(memory clock 1467x2/fabric clock 1467x2/memory controller 1467x2)
♦ 3200mhz (16GB)CL14-14-14-14-28-(memory clock 1600x2/fabric clock 1600x2/memory controller 1600x2)
♦ 3733mhz (16GB)CL16-17-16-16-34-(memory clock 1867x2/fabric clock 1867x2/memory controller 1867x2)
♦ 4000mhz (16GB)CL16-18-17-17-36 -(memory clock 2000x2/fabric clock 1800x2/memory controller 1000x2)
♦ 4200mhz (16GB)CL16-18-17-17-36 -(memory clock 2100x2/fabric clock 1800x2/memory controller 1050x2) 
























cucker tarlson said:


> can anyone provide a simple answer for those 2 questions:
> 
> *does ryzen 3000 boost the same way on b450 as x570 ? will I get the maximum boost out of 3600 on b450 ?
> *does pbo work on b450 and does it work the same way as x570 ?


1.Yes but to achieve maximum boost written on the box depend on the BIOS for the particular motherboard.
2.Yes but to achieve maximum boost written on the box depend on the BIOS for the particular motherboard.
3.I have 2 x 3600X and both hit maximum boost written on the box with all cores.Do not confuse maximum boost with an all core overclock.The cores will boost up to a maximum boost of 4200Mhz on a Ryzen 3600.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 11, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I used the timings I got from the Ryzen Dram Calculator. I am not experienced with memory overclocking, and this tool made it really easy to just do what it said.


Check your IF speed though, as you're most likely in decoupled mode of you check Ryzen Master.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 11, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Check your IF speed though, as you're most likely in decoupled mode of you check Ryzen Master.


@gerardfraser 
The Infinity Fabric is running at 1800 MHz (Coupled Mode = Off) in your one Ryzen Master screenshot. Might want go into the BIOS/uEFI and change the IFClock to match the clockspeed of your DDR4, knocks some latency off accessing main memory.


----------



## gerardfraser (Aug 11, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> @gerardfraser
> The Infinity Fabric is running at 1800 MHz (Coupled Mode = Off) in your one Ryzen Master screenshot. Might want go into the BIOS/uEFI and change the IFClock to match the clockspeed of your DDR4, knocks some latency off accessing main memory.


Well I am not trying to be mean.It is supposed to be off mode.If you would like me to explain it to you I can.
♦ 4000mhz (16GB)CL16-18-17-17-36 -(memory clock 2000x2/fabric clock 1800x2/memory controller 1000x2)
♦ 4200mhz (16GB)CL16-18-17-17-36 -(memory clock 2100x2/fabric clock 1800x2/memory controller 1050x2)


----------



## Nordic (Aug 11, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Check your IF speed though, as you're most likely in decoupled mode of you check Ryzen Master.


Going by ryzen master it looks I have couple mode enabled.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 11, 2019)

Nordic said:


> Going by ryzen master it looks I have couple mode enabled.


Weird, as your latencies are way too high for what they should be with those memory settings.


----------



## gerardfraser (Aug 11, 2019)

If  memory controller is off then you will get high latency .
Check BIOS and make sure your clocks are synced.To check memory controller is synced use CPU-Z NB frequency.

these are the clocks on Ryzen 3
(memory clock /fabric clock /memory controller )

they should run  1:1:1 Ratio for proper latency
once memory goes past a certain number it goes to 1:1:2 Ratio which equal higher latency

My Motherboard can do 1900Mhz it can vary by motherboard

See my post #473 previous page on typical settings (memory clock /fabric clock /memory controller )


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 11, 2019)

Nordic said:


> Going by ryzen master it looks I have couple mode enabled.


Referencing the great spreadsheet of all AM4 motherboards it would seem your board is using T-topology for the memory. This is known to "suffer" from lower memory speed headroom, compared to having the memory slots connected in series. On the other hand, it's supposed to work better with four DIMMs...
This could be a reason as to why you're having problems with the memory.
Beyond that, I can't think of much, beyond a buggy UEFI.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 11, 2019)

I haven't had a bios update since July 31. I am hoping to get one soon because asrock definitely has some work to do. I have had much better experience with Intel and asrock than I am with this board.


----------



## Aquinus (Aug 11, 2019)

I'm waiting to pay off the car and student loans, then I'll probably jump on the Ryzen bandwagon. Should be around the end of the year, and by then we should see what performance on the 16c/32t part looks like.


----------



## Nuckles56 (Aug 11, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Well, Ryzen 3000 is actually more of an upgrade over the Ryzen 1000 series than I expected and I have the same core count. My system just feels more responsive overall, which I didn't expect. I think you might've been disappointed with the 1000 series though.


I have used 1st and 2nd gen systems and they felt plenty fast, and always seemed at least as responsive as my i5 6500, and the second gen definitely felt faster. That said, I'm not sad I waited until 3rd gen.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 12, 2019)

Nuckles56 said:


> I have used 1st and 2nd gen systems and they felt plenty fast, and always seemed at least as responsive as my i5 6500, and the second gen definitely felt faster. That said, I'm not sad I waited until 3rd gen.



It's not that my previous system wasn't working well, but it just feels different somehow. It's not easy to describe, but maybe it's just at a point where everything is working on "equal terms" and as such, the whole system just feels more responsive.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> It's not that my previous system wasn't working well, but it just feels different somehow. It's not easy to describe, but maybe it's just at a point where everything is working on "equal terms" and as such, the whole system just feels more responsive.


Yeah, my Samsung 970 EVO NVMe with the 3600 CPU swap actually feels faster now. Not sure how the Ryzen 3600 would make any difference though.

From @trparky's thread:












						3700X vs 9900K, that is the question...
					

It is. Other tests show consistent deltas between two sets of two processors. Yours show consistent deltas between two processors, but wildly different deltas for two other processors, of the same set of four. This is an anomaly.  thinking that just because a 720p test shows XX% difference...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 12, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Yeah, my Samsung 970 EVO NVMe with the 3600 CPU swap actually feels faster now. Not sure how the Ryzen 3600 would make any difference though.
> 
> From @trparky's thread:
> 
> ...



holy crap I have never see a 4KiB Q1T1 score that high before... 70... wow... what does that particular score benefit read wise? large files or making everything overall snappier?


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 12, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Yeah, my Samsung 970 EVO NVMe with the 3600 CPU swap actually feels faster now. Not sure how the Ryzen 3600 would make any difference though.
> 
> From @trparky's thread:
> 
> ...



Which CPU did you come from?

They say that a fast SSD makes all the difference, but the CPU still plays a role in how Windows "feels" as well. Most obvious in the mobile vs. desktop comparison (I have a PM961 in my XPS 13, and honestly I thought it was a SATA drive at first).

Apparently in 1903 Microsoft did wonders for optimizing Windows 10 scheduling for Ryzen 3000, so you might be feeling some of the speed boost there.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 12, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Which CPU did you come from?


2600X but it never made Windows 10 1809/1903 feel as responsive as the switch to 3600.



lynx29 said:


> holy crap I have never see a 4KiB Q1T1 score that high before... 70... wow... what does that particular score benefit read wise? large files or making everything overall snappier?


Should improve accessing random smaller size files.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 12, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Yeah, my Samsung 970 EVO NVMe with the 3600 CPU swap actually feels faster now. Not sure how the Ryzen 3600 would make any difference though.
> 
> From @trparky's thread:
> 
> ...



Well, SSDs are faster in my case, although you didn't change board so...
Then again, this is the slot connected directly to the CPU.
Maybe not in all tests, but the ones that count are in general faster.
The 4KiB Q1T1 did reach the same numbers as on the X370 when I tested later on, just forgot to get a screenshot.

X370 + Ryzen 7 1700





X570 + Ryzen 7 3800X







lynx29 said:


> holy crap I have never see a 4KiB Q1T1 score that high before... 70... wow... what does that particular score benefit read wise? large files or making everything overall snappier?


Samsung SSDs seem to have better performance when it comes to this aspect. I guess they've got a better controller/caching for handling small files.



tabascosauz said:


> Apparently in 1903 Microsoft did wonders for optimizing Windows 10 scheduling for Ryzen 3000, so you might be feeling some of the speed boost there.



It still doesn't work quite right if my understanding of how it's supposed to work is correct. The scheduler is supposed to utilise the fastest and then the second fastest core. etc. first, but I have never seen that happen on my system. It simply uses them in order.
@Nordic is lucky, his first core is at least a second fastest core in his first CCD and CCX, so in theory, he should see some extra performance in single threaded apps that start on the first core.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Well, SSDs are faster in my case, although you didn't change board so...


Here's my old score with the 2600X


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 12, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Here's my old score with the 2600X


Odd, then it's a lot slower in most benchmarks in your cases.
Did you run a TRIM before running the test with the new CPU?
Not that you seem to have much data on the drive.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Not that you seem to have much data on the drive.


I like having a tidy/clean drive if I can keep it that way. I try to find alternatives to the bloated Microsoft Office, Photoshop even though I have the space.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 12, 2019)

@TheLostSwede the location of my second fastest core doesn't seem to do me much good. I am consistently a few percent slower in single threaded compared to tpu benchmarks. I didn't have the worst luck with silicone lottery for sure.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 12, 2019)

Nordic said:


> @TheLostSwede the location of my second fastest core doesn't seem to do me much good. I am consistently a few percent slower in single threaded compared to tpu benchmarks. I didn't have the worst luck with silicone lottery for sure.


Nah, I'm sort of in the same boat. I'm just wondering how much of it comes down to UEFI/software related things.
I have a feeling AMD has to fix this, or they're going to get sued for false advertising or something in the US.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Nah, I'm sort of in the same boat. I'm just wondering how much of it comes down to UEFI/software related things.
> I have a feeling AMD has to fix this, or they're going to get sued for false advertising or something in the US.



keep in mind when @W1zzard runs benchmarks, he does not run them on stock windows 10, he runs all these scripts first.









						Windows 10 Tweaks for VGA Benchmark
					

i think use /d 0 instead of /d 1 on both commands




					www.techpowerup.com
				




so that might have something to do with your issue. I am using Linux Mint XFCE with my ryzen 3700x and navy 5700 xt while I wait for windows drivers to mature, and just enjoying native indie games that run on linux for awhile


----------



## W1zzard (Aug 12, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> he does not run them on stock windows 10, he runs all these scripts first.


it's still stock Windows, I made extra sure to only apply things that are reachable through the UI, no registry tweaks or hacks. The script just exists to save time.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 12, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> keep in mind when @W1zzard runs benchmarks, he does not run them on stock windows 10, he runs all these scripts first.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't just rely on his figures, in fact, I'm mostly comparing to people with 3700X CPUs here in the forums and elsewhere and my 3800X is behind those in pretty much all benchmarks.
Obviously system configuration and memory is going to matter to a certain amount, but I'm off way more than just a few percent in terms of expected variance.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> I don't just rely on his figures, in fact, I'm mostly comparing to people with 3700X CPUs here in the forums and elsewhere and my 3800X is behind those in pretty much all benchmarks.
> Obviously system configuration and memory is going to matter to a certain amount, but I'm off way more than just a few percent in terms of expected variance.



that's a shame, hopefully with the new chipset driver in a week or two, maybe it will get better.  and new BIOS updates should be rolling in same time frame...

fyi, I just noticed you have a Wooting Two, awesome! I wanted one myself, $150 just a bit too pricet, if it was $100 i'd do it


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 12, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> that's a shame, hopefully with the new chipset driver in a week or two, maybe it will get better.  and new BIOS updates should be rolling in same time frame...
> 
> fyi, I just noticed you have a Wooting Two, awesome! I wanted one myself, $150 just a bit too pricet, if it was $100 i'd do it


Yeah, it's the only thing we can hope for, a decent release from AMD that solves all these little silly things.
Again, I'm not disappointed with my system, I'm disappointed with AMD's marketing and the fact that the 3800X is nothing more than an over priced 3700X.

Still waiting for Wooting to deliver their full software as well...
Pretty nice keyboard. Met the guys at Computex and even took Calder around visiting some potential manufacturing partners, as he lives in Taiwan too.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Yeah, it's the only thing we can hope for, a decent release from AMD that solves all these little silly things.
> Again, I'm not disappointed with my system, I'm disappointed with AMD's marketing and the fact that the 3800X is nothing more than an over priced 3700X.
> 
> Still waiting for Wooting to deliver their full software as well...
> Pretty nice keyboard. Met the guys at Computex and even took Calder around visiting some potential manufacturing partners, as he lives in Taiwan too.


That's why I waited for reviews, same thing with 3600X.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 12, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> That's why I waited for reviews, same thing with 3600X.


Afaik, there's only one 3800X review...


----------



## mstenholm (Aug 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Afaik, there's only one 3800X review...


All review sites read your comments and decided to stay clear   since it would take some hard thinking to explain their disappointing results.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Afaik, there's only one 3800X review...


GN also reviewed it with "Don't waste your money" in video preview on YT. That makes two with TH.


----------



## londiste (Aug 12, 2019)

X-processors (3600X and 3800X) seem to be really pointless at this point. I can only hope AMD will get their stuff together and fix whatever is wrong with these.

In my experience and based on some of the reviews, power limit configuration seems to be off. Their 65W brethren do boost up until 88W but 3600X and 3800X will eventually remain at around their TDP instead of 127/142W they could possibly get to. Either that or these CPUs are too heavily binned and are simply unable to boost as far as the spec says.


----------



## Calmmo (Aug 12, 2019)

It really does look like all the ryzen 3000 CPU's are too similar in performance regardless of binning. Sure some will boost maaaybe 100mhz higher - close to their advertised boost for 0.5 secs under near 0 load.

Perhaps someone reviewing models produced toward the end of this 3000 product lifecycle will notice the different tiered products (x vs non x for example) being by then they noticeably different. Or maybe AMD is just saving all their above average silicon for threadripper/epyc and there isn't enough quality silicon to spare for the lower margin mainstream processors.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 12, 2019)

I read on reddit today that amd changed their description of what boost clock means, but I couldn't see what changed. If this is true we are beginning to see that amd really isn't going to fix the boost clock.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 12, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I read on reddit today that amd changed their description of what boost clock means, but I couldn't see what changed. If this is true we are beginning to see that amd really isn't going to fix the boost clock.


First picture "nominal conditions".








						AMD Updates Ryzen Product Pages to Elaborate on "Max Boost Clocks"
					

AMD over the weekend updated the product-pages of its Ryzen processors on the company website to be very specific about what they mean by "Max Boost Clocks," that are advertised almost as extensively as the processor's main nominal clock-speeds. AMD describes it has "the maximum single-core...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Nordic (Aug 12, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> First picture "nominal conditions".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know how I missed that one. I will go throw my complaints over there.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 12, 2019)

Calmmo said:


> It really does look like all the ryzen 3000 CPU's are too similar in performance regardless of binning. Sure some will boost maaaybe 100mhz higher - close to their advertised boost for 0.5 secs under near 0 load.
> 
> Perhaps someone reviewing models produced toward the end of this 3000 product lifecycle will notice the different tiered products (x vs non x for example) by then they actually have noticable differences. Or maybe AMD is just saving all their above average silicon for threadripper/epyc and there isn't enough quality silicon to spare for the lower margin mainstream processors.



as frustrating as all this is guys, please remember to look at benches for 1440p gaming (which is what most of us game at), even when the 9900k beats us it is majority of time only by 5 fps or so. and we have literally 0 security issues and they have tons, more being discovered weekly. 

don't know, just keep things in perspective is all I am saying, quite frankly I am too old and too damn busy to be wasting my time finding stable oc's these days, so I am glad to see something PBO and XFR (not sure if those are different or same thing?)  just make like easier for me. it was fun in my younger days, but I am glad we have this new tech now. at first i hated the idea of not being able to OC anymore, but it's reminded me that gaming is what I am here for, so its time to go have some damn fun, later everyone


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 12, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> (which is what most of us game at),


Not even close to most.....go look at steam stats. Last time I checked it was under 5%. 1080p was well over 60%... lesser resolutions more.


----------



## Nuckles56 (Aug 12, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Not even close to most.....go look at steam stats.


I believe he was referring to us forum dwellers


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 12, 2019)

Nuckles56 said:


> I believe he was referring to us forum dwellers


It may be higher, but I would still bet most are on 1080p...

and why would we exclude the millions more outside of here? lol


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 12, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> It may be higher, but I would still bet most are on 1080p...
> 
> and why would we exclude the millions more outside of here? lol



because 1080p gaming ruins the immersion. I can't stand seeing pixels anymore personally, but I have been 1440p since 2011/2012, so maybe just spoiled I don't know. I tried like hell to go back to 1080p 144hz so I could get higher frames, even the 23.8" models though just ruined the immersion for me, pixels shoved in my face. I feel sorry for them, you should too.

even a game like stardew valley I enjoy more at 1440p then I do on my 1080p, weird I know.  just the extra crispness does something to my insides


----------



## mstenholm (Aug 12, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I don't know how I missed that one. I will go throw my complaints over there.


You are not the only one and I was online at the time....


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 12, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> because 1080p gaming ruins the immersion. I can't stand seeing pixels anymore personally, but I have been 1440p since 2011/2012, so maybe just spoiled I don't know. I tried like hell to go back to 1080p 144hz so I could get higher frames, even the 23.8" models though just ruined the immersion for me, pixels shoved in my face. I feel sorry for them, you should too.
> 
> even a game like stardew valley I enjoy more at 1440p then I do on my 1080p, weird I know.  just the extra crispness does something to my insides


Immersion and what resolution most game at are two completely different subjects in this context... I agree about immersion, but, that wasn't what you said initially ("most are on 1440"). Make sense.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 12, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Immersion and what resolution most game at are two completely different subjects in this context... I agree about immersion, but, that wasn't what you said initially ("most are on 1440"). Make sense.



Pray for them, pray that their pixel density and refresh rate will increase!!! We must save the Lost Ones. 

 Sometimes you have to take me with a grain of salt,


----------



## -1nf1n1ty- (Aug 13, 2019)

Didnt wanna make a thread about this but, someone that has had the first gen ryzen and upgraded or anyone that wants to chime in on this. Is the upgrade worth it? Ive been considering a 3900x or even the the 2920x threadripper. I play lots of games and I use maya to animate mostly, and video edit if I want to make a demo reel. I dont know what route I should go, the prices on the threadrippers look fantastic but I dont know. Any help is appreciated! THANKS!


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 13, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> I like having a tidy/clean drive if I can keep it that way. I try to find alternatives to the bloated Microsoft Office, Photoshop even though I have the space.



Funny how one can form habits around the preferences of one's SSD. I find myself falling into that pit all the time. I know that an empty drive is the fastest, so in order to maximize that performance, I frequently remove games that fall even slightly into disuse; as a result, I never actually come close to using most of the space on my drives.

This build marks the debut of NVMe in any of my desktops, as well as the first time I'll have more than 3TB of SSDs to rely on, and the first time I'll regard even empty SATA performance as no longer "fast", so it's less of an issue now. Though I remember my first, a 240GB SSD 530 from five years ago - LSI Sandforce _really_ did not like a full drive.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 13, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Funny how one can form habits around the preferences of one's SSD. I find myself falling into that pit all the time. I know that an empty drive is the fastest, so in order to maximize that performance, I frequently remove games that fall even slightly into disuse; as a result, I never actually come close to using most of the space on my drives.
> 
> This build marks the debut of NVMe in any of my desktops, as well as the first time I'll have more than 3TB of SSDs to rely on, and the first time I'll regard even empty SATA performance as no longer "fast", so it's less of an issue now. Though I remember my first, a 240GB SSD 530 from five years ago - LSI Sandforce _really_ did not like a full drive.


You know your probably right about the early smaller capacity SSDs that first came out. Theres a chance I've formed a habit related to the first 80GB Intel 320 SSD I had.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 13, 2019)

-1nf1n1ty- said:


> Didnt wanna make a thread about this but, someone that has had the first gen ryzen and upgraded or anyone that wants to chime in on this. Is the upgrade worth it? Ive been considering a 3900x or even the the 2920x threadripper. I play lots of games and I use maya to animate mostly, and video edit if I want to make a demo reel. I dont know what route I should go, the prices on the threadrippers look fantastic but I dont know. Any help is appreciated! THANKS!


I believe @TheLostSwede upgarded from first gen Ryzen.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 13, 2019)

-1nf1n1ty- said:


> Didnt wanna make a thread about this but, someone that has had the first gen ryzen and upgraded or anyone that wants to chime in on this. Is the upgrade worth it? Ive been considering a 3900x or even the the 2920x threadripper. I play lots of games and I use maya to animate mostly, and video edit if I want to make a demo reel. I dont know what route I should go, the prices on the threadrippers look fantastic but I dont know. Any help is appreciated! THANKS!


Short answer, yes.

As I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, my system feels a lot more responsive than it did with my Ryzen 7 1700. It's hard to describe the difference, but everything feels snappier somehow.
I would wait and see what the new Threadrippers are like, they're going to be out before the end of the year, if it's a platform you're considering that is.

AMD still have some work to do on Ryzen 3000, but overall it's been a better experience than the first gen.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 13, 2019)

I am new to Ryzen and Navi, I have a question about drivers... for Windows 10 (doing Linux first, but will eventually move to windows once drivers mature in another month or two)

@EarthDog @TheLostSwede @biffzinker 

Ok, so on the motherboard BIOS page it only has this - AMD all in 1 with VGA driver ver:19.10.16_19H1_WHQL   

But I don't want that correct? I want to download the B450 chipset direct from AMD - around 50mb download, and then the latest Navi drivers which just came out yesterday are on TPU Home Page, just those two is all I need correct? then I just do the other typical drivers... like LAN, etc direct from BIOS page.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 13, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I am new to Ryzen and Navi, I have a question about drivers... for Windows 10 (doing Linux first, but will eventually move to windows once drivers mature in another month or two)
> 
> @EarthDog @TheLostSwede @biffzinker
> 
> ...



Get the drivers from AMD, not the board makers.
And indeed, all you need is that driver from AMD, plus audio, Ethernet and maybe something else depending on your board, like RGB control or some kind of motherboard utility, if you want to use that.
Looks like AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB is out for your board, I would install that UEFI.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 13, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Get the drivers from AMD, not the board makers.
> And indeed, all you need is that driver from AMD, plus audio, Ethernet and maybe something else depending on your board, like RGB control or some kind of motherboard utility, if you want to use that.
> Looks like AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB is out for your board, I would install that UEFI.



I use a dedicated DAC for my audio so I don't need any drivers, I will just let Win 10 auto install that one.

So:

AMD Chipset B450 direct from AMD
Navi Driver direct from AMD
LAN from mobo site

that's it? I don't worry about RGB stuff or anything like that, and I don't use "utilities" stuff. I prefer vanilla


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 13, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I use a dedicated DAC for my audio so I don't need any drivers, I will just let Win 10 auto install that one.
> 
> So:
> 
> ...


Sounds about right.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 13, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I use a dedicated DAC for my audio so I don't need any drivers, I will just let Win 10 auto install that one.
> 
> So:
> 
> ...


Literally no different than if you had an Intel/Nvidia.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 13, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Literally no different than if you had an Intel/Nvidia.



Not entirely true though, intel management software, intel rapid storage driver, etc.

and I was only initially confused because the mobo driver page had an all in one driver, but I wanted the latest gpu driver TPU just posted yesterday, I'm all good now.  no worries ^^


----------



## phanbuey (Aug 13, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Not entirely true though, intel management software, intel rapid storage driver, etc.
> 
> and I was only initially confused because the mobo driver page had an all in one driver, but I wanted the latest gpu driver TPU just posted yesterday, I'm all good now.  no worries ^^



Post some benchies when you're done!!

Excited for you man, that is a sweet rig.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 13, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Not entirely true though, intel management software, intel rapid storage driver, etc.
> 
> and I was only initially confused because the mobo driver page had an all in one driver, but I wanted the latest gpu driver TPU just posted yesterday, I'm all good now.  no worries ^^


The concept is the same. Install what is NEEDED and nothing else. Chipset drivers, ME drivers, LAN, Audio, GPU. Done unless you need something else. Intel RST isn't needed. I've never installed it. 

Same concepts as intel, bud.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Aug 13, 2019)

ddr4 scaling results,have a look if you're wondering what sticks to get









						AMD Ryzen 3000 – wydajność w zależności od taktowania pamięci
					

Procesory Ryzen 3. generacji mają wyjątkową budowę, która wpływa na możliwości podkręcania pamięci. Są również wyjątkowe ze względu na gwarantowaną przez producenta możliwość działania z pamięcią o taktowaniu do DDR-3200. To najnowszy standard opublikowany przez organizację JEDEC. Choć w...



					pclab.pl


----------



## Divide Overflow (Aug 13, 2019)

I'm really happy with my 3900X.
I had to manually set my IFclock to match my 3600 RAM, but that's the only tweak I needed to make so far.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 13, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> and I was only initially confused because the mobo driver page had an all in one driver,


That all in one driver is targeted at the Ryzen APU's.



EarthDog said:


> Intel RST isn't needed. I've never installed it.


I started skipping the RST driver with my Haswell build.



EarthDog said:


> Literally no different than if you had an Intel/Nvidia.


For Nvidia I've picked up using @W1zzard's NVCleanstall.








						NVCleanstall - Clean installer for NVIDIA drivers (Alpha)
					

This thread is for the beta version of NVCleanstall that was in development between 2018 and 2019.  For the final release go here.      NVCleanstall lets you remove individual components from the NVIDIA driver, to only install what you actually want.  Supports Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 10, 32 & 64-bit...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 13, 2019)

well my rx 5700 3 fan from gigabyte was delayed until september-october, just got an email... going to cancel my order. eh. not sure what to do now. really don't want a blower. guess I can just hope for sapphire pulse edition to come on sale for $410 soon


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 14, 2019)

Or dont order those things...




biffzinker said:


> For Nvidia I've picked up using @W1zzard's NVCleanstall.


Its a neat tool... but really not terribly useful for me personally. Just another app that does something another app handles.... the nv installer, lol. Being serious, I dont care that much to even install the app. I just select drivers, physics and unselect everything else. If I need to clean up a driver mess, I have ddu. 

It has its uses I guess, but not for me.


----------



## puma99dk| (Aug 14, 2019)

I am still thinking about going Ryzen 9 3900X and about the Ryzen 9 3950X 16cores and 32 threads but no release date on that one yet.

Because if I need to spend about 630USD/£522 on a Ryzen 9 I would spend the extra depending on how much and go with the 3950X.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 14, 2019)

Is there really any value in getting the X cpus over say the 3900.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 14, 2019)

Nordic said:


> Is there really any value in getting the X cpus over say the 3900.



Is that the 3600 you mean? I don't think I would get the 3600X with the price delta between the two here in Canada, and neither would I have opted for the 3800X instead of the 3700X. I think this was the case from the very outset of Ryzen 3000 getting announced, especially with the 3700X, where the 3800X barely has any advantage over it yet the 3700X's need to hit that TDP probably meant that AMD was selecting better silicon for the 3700X.

It was really hard to decide between the 3600 and the 3700X. In the end, the 8-core won out. But right now, the 3600 sits at ~$250 CAD, absolutely bonkers value for what it brings to the table. Meanwhile, I paid $450 for the 3700X.

3900X and 3950X are a different story.

E: Also, I think you're our VRM guinea pig, lmao. I truly hope that your 3900X is kind to your X570M. I've generally not had to deal with low end VRMs since I switched to mini-ITX, and forgot how these manufacturers love to cut corners on these low end, top chipset boards.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 14, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Its a neat tool... but really not terribly useful for me personally. Just another app that does something another app handles.... the nv installer, lol. Being serious, I dont care that much to even install the app. I just select drivers, physics and unselect everything else. If I need to clean up a driver mess, I have ddu.
> 
> It has its uses I guess, but not for me.


Using it for the less bloat I'm installing aka Nvidia's telemetry component, and the AI AA as an example.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 14, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Using it for the less bloat I'm installing aka Nvidia's telemetry component, and the AI AA as an example.


Doesn't phase me in the least. Just isn't worth the extra time (as meager as it is) for the returns.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 14, 2019)

Divide Overflow said:


> I'm really happy with my 3900X.
> I had to manually set my IFclock to match my 3600 RAM, but that's the only tweak I needed to make so far.


Surprised you had to do it on that board, as 3600 runs 1:1 just fine for me. Anything above that, I have to set manually. Or is that four sticks?
You'll most likely be able to go higher clock or tighter timings though.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Aug 14, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Surprised you had to do it on that board, as 3600 runs 1:1 just fine for me. Anything above that, I have to set manually. Or is that four sticks?
> You'll most likely be able to go higher clock or tighter timings though.


I have four sticks running at 3600 CL16 XMP.  Haven't begun to fiddle with tweaking things yet but I'll get there eventually.  Already seems to be a pretty good sweet spot for general use.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 14, 2019)

Divide Overflow said:


> I have four sticks running at 3600 CL16 XMP.  Haven't begun to fiddle with tweaking things yet but I'll get there eventually.  Already seems to be a pretty good sweet spot for general use.


Ah, yeah, that might explain why you had to set 1:1 manually and I doubt you'll be able to push it much more than that.
Sorry, forgot if it was you or another guy that had four sticks, too many posts in this thread 
Still, that's pretty amazing from previous gen Ryzens.


----------



## kartoffelotto (Aug 14, 2019)

my new rig is up and running for some weeks now, and i like it a lot, even if im still waiting for the appropriate custom rx5700 xt to appear on the market. i really wasnt all that happy with the wraith prism stock cooler, so i got something that handles my hotheaded 3800x a bit better. while it doesnt get much favor by reviewers, i refuse to feel buyers remorse, the tdp figures and clocks were out before, and as i had the cpu box in hand where it says max boost 4.5 ghz, well, i've read enough advertisements in my life  it actually boosts over 4.4 ghz, although i haven't seen that for single threaded benches, those tend to flip around between the fastest cores on the first ccx, all core load like cinebench usually results in 4.2ish ghz on all cores, without pbo or such.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 15, 2019)

Anyone else running Noctua on their AM4? I had to get the NM-AM4 kit for my D9L, but I noticed that one of the "long bars" (the kit provides "short bars" that connect the AM4 posts horizontally for horizontal heatsink orientation, and "long bars" that connect the posts vertically for vertical heatsink orientation) touch the VRM heatsink on the B450I Aorus. It's not noticeably obstructed, but it does push that bar up slightly (maybe a fraction of a millimetre?), as while the Aorus heatsink has a bevelled edge, it's still an edge.

I'm just prepping everything today, will actually build on Friday, but I'm wondering if this is enough to mess with IHS contact. I guess I could run it vertically like I do right now, but it just really isn't optimal for cooling as the air enters my case directly overhead of the heatsink (from the outside perspective, it's the left side of the case) through a NF-F12 and then exits the case out the back via a NF-A9x14. With it vertically oriented (as it is awkwardly on my 4790K right now), it pulls air from the GPU backplate to try and spit it out the top of the case, in hopes that the A9x14 catches the air before it does so.


----------



## HTC (Aug 15, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> *Anyone else running Noctua on their AM4?* I had to get the NM-AM4 kit for my D9L, but I noticed that one of the "long bars" (the kit provides "short bars" that connect the AM4 posts horizontally for horizontal heatsink orientation, and "long bars" that connect the posts vertically for vertical heatsink orientation) touch the VRM heatsink on the B450I Aorus. It's not noticeably obstructed, but it does push that bar up slightly (maybe a fraction of a millimetre?), as while the Aorus heatsink has a bevelled edge, it's still an edge.
> 
> I'm just prepping everything today, will actually build on Friday, but I'm wondering if this is enough to mess with IHS contact. I guess I could run it vertically like I do right now, but it just really isn't optimal for cooling as the air enters my case directly overhead of the heatsink (from the outside perspective, it's the left side of the case) through a NF-F12 and then exits the case out the back via a NF-A9x14. With it vertically oriented (as it is awkwardly on my 4790K right now), it pulls air from the GPU backplate to try and spit it out the top of the case, in hopes that the A9x14 catches the air before it does so.



I am running a NH-C14, discontinued for several years, cooler: applied to a NM-AM4 kit after i got my current board + a Ryzen 1600 CPU. The only issue i currently have is the impossibility of using the bottom fan because the RAM modules are too tall.

According to this, your board doesn't have restrictions, other than the necessity of the NM-AM4 mounting kit.

*Assuming you used the paste the stock cooler came with*, be sure to take care removing the stock cooler so you avoid what happened to me when i attempted to take the stock cooler out: scared the crap out of me.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 15, 2019)

HTC said:


> I am running a NH-C14, discontinued for several years, cooler: applied to a NM-AM4 kit after i got my current board + a Ryzen 1600 CPU. The only issue i currently have is the impossibility of using the bottom fan because the RAM modules are too tall.
> 
> According to this, your board doesn't have restrictions, other than the necessity of the NM-AM4 mounting kit.
> 
> *Assuming you used the paste the stock cooler came with*, be sure to take care removing the stock cooler so you avoid what happened to me when i attempted to take the stock cooler out: scared the crap out of me.



That's hopeful, I guess. I am of the OCD type so it could just be worrying over nothing. Haven't decided whether I'll use NT-H1 or AS5 on this one though, both have been old faithful to me over the years.

I used to run push-pull with an extra NF-B9 on my D9L, making it literally a mini-D14; even with Kingston Fury (a relatively low profile DDR3) I had to move the fan and clips up a few fins on the heatsink. I have Corsair LPX on this build which is really short, so we'll see how it goes when my free extra fan clips from Noctua arrive (it's things like this that keep me with Noctua.at because they've really been a symbol of customer service and quality throughout the years).

Oh hell no, I stay far away from pre-applied paste on either AMD or Intel coolers. I'm keeping the Wraith Prism because it's a nice cooler, but if I ever use it on anything I'll IPA the yucky paste off and use some of my own.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 16, 2019)

@HTC no problems with NM-AM4. The instructions are just a little weird. On monolithic Noctua towers, the spring loaded screws are on the same axis as the heatsink direction, but the D9L (and I suspect D15) aren't monolithic so the screws are actually perpendicular in a sense. Which means I had to use the short arms, whereas with a traditional U9S for example you'd want the long arms. Worked much better.

Learned the hard way today that:

1) Having had Intel since Ivy means having been completely spoiled by strong memory controllers
2) Pairing Ryzen with memory that works is not a walk in the park
3) ITX boards that are not overbuilt do not like 32GB in the form of 16GB double sided sticks of fast DDR4
4) Ryzen hates Corsair and Corsair hates Ryzen

Would only POST and run properly to allow me to install Windows when on one stick only. Going back to the store tomorrow to return these poopsairs for a 16GB 3200 kit from maybe G.Skill or something. In all honesty, can't really blame the LPXs; as the box indicates, they probably would have been happy enough to run on Z390.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Aug 16, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone else running Noctua on their AM4?


My Noctua NH-D15S arrived today and I had no trouble installing it.  No clearance issues with my hardware.


----------



## Xzibit (Aug 16, 2019)

NH-U12A with no problems.

Although the internet being the internet. One can find several build pics of people installing it backwards and complaining about memory clearance.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 16, 2019)

Woo! My motherboard finally has a bios update!

V1.6
1. Update AMD AGESA Combo-AM4 1.0.0.3 ABB
2. Improve Destiny2 gaming experience with Matisse CPU.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 16, 2019)

It didn't do anything for the boost clocks... but helps a bit at idle. This was pushed on to other boards of theirs several days ago IIRC.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 16, 2019)

I may have a lower end board, but it was the only matx choice I had at the time, but I think asrock dropped the ball with AMD this time around. I thought Asrock was supposed to be great now. I have had really great experiences with them on intel.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 16, 2019)

What's wrong with ASRock? How did they drop the ball?? The two boards I've seen so far (the itx board and phantom gaming x) are quite solid!


----------



## Nordic (Aug 16, 2019)

I don't know for sure about other products in Asrock's lineup except for the one I have. My Asrock X570m Pro4 feels like the cheapest budget board I have ever had while being on the premium chipset. The VRM and VRM heatsink are absolutely crappy. I am not 100% certain, but I believe my motherboard is why I can't run my memory at its rated 3600mhz with any CAS speeds and sub timings or voltage.

Buildzoid's video confirmed a lot of my own complaints about this motherboard.









I have read that most of asrock's lineup is built the same. If my board sucks at the low end, I can't imagine the other boards being that much better.

For the record, I chose this motherboard because it was the only x570 matx board available at the time.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 16, 2019)

It is the cheapest board on the X570 chipset for ASRock IIRC... what did you expect? the other boards are better... at least the two I have.

Not sure what you are reading but I can tell you the parts I had are not the same. Builldzoid has a vid in fact on the ITX board touting its VRM (and hating on the IC's in the memory area).

Is that memory on the QVL list? remember, this is AMD Ryzen and it can certainly be finicky.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 16, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> @HTC no problems with NM-AM4. The instructions are just a little weird. On monolithic Noctua towers, the spring loaded screws are on the same axis as the heatsink direction, but the D9L (and I suspect D15) aren't monolithic so the screws are actually perpendicular in a sense. Which means I had to use the short arms, whereas with a traditional U9S for example you'd want the long arms. Worked much better.
> 
> Learned the hard way today that:
> 
> ...



If you think Ryzen 3000 is hard when it comes to RAM, be glad you missed the 1000 series, it was much, much worse.
I had no problems with my "random" RAM that I admittedly got for my new build, as I had major issues with my old Corsair RAM as well.
You might be right on the other hand that Corsair RAM and AMD is a bad mix.
Note that only 2933MHz is officially supported for dual rank memory on Ryzen 3000, so going with higher clocks than that, isn't guaranteed. That said, some people here on the forums have managed 3600MHz.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 16, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> It is the cheapest board on the X570 chipset for ASRock IIRC... what did you expect? the other boards are better... at least the two I have.
> Is that memory on the QVL list? remember, this is AMD Ryzen and it can certainly be finicky.


I expect it to be better than $60 boards I have purchased in the past. The memory is on the QVL list too. I have seen posts with from other people with the same memory not having issues. I was hoping that bios update might help, but it didn't.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 16, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I expect it to be better than $60 boards I have purchased in the past. The memory is on the QVL list too. I have seen posts with from other people with the same memory not having issues. I was hoping that bios update might help, but it didn't.


And it is, by hardware specs... 

If other people have the same memory on this board and it works, did you consider that maybe your CPU's IMC just can't hack it for whatever reason? Have you increased SOC voltage? Maybe consider creating a thread and see if we can tackle the issue...


----------



## HTC (Aug 16, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I expect it to be better than $60 boards I have purchased in the past. The memory is on the QVL list too. *I have seen posts with from other people with the same memory not having issues.* I was hoping that bios update might help, but it didn't.



This suggests the board being the issue and, as Buildzoid mentioned in the video you posted, it depends on the BIOS: that's on Asrock, unless the RAM itself has issues.

Do you have another system you can test the RAM on, in order to rule it out as being the problem? If you manage to run MemTest on the RAM with it working on another system @ advertised speeds but failing on your board, and then contact Asrock with this proof, i'm sure they could fix the issue, no?


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 16, 2019)

It's hilarious I see the same info and dont think it's the board...

It may be a bios issue, but this board only has, now, 3 IIRC. And I'm imagining he's tried them all. So assuming that it's either in his settings, his IMC is a dud, or the board may be faulty (assuming the memory is ok).

As I said though...maybe he should start his own thread and see if we can get it working.


----------



## HTC (Aug 16, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> And it is, by hardware specs...
> 
> *If other people have the same memory on this board and it works*, did you consider that maybe your CPU's IMC just can't hack it for whatever reason? Have you increased SOC voltage? Maybe consider creating a thread and see if we can tackle the issue...



That's not what he said:



Nordic said:


> I expect it to be better than $60 boards I have purchased in the past. The memory is on the QVL list too. *I have seen posts with from other people with the same memory not having issues.* I was hoping that bios update might help, but it didn't.



From that, i read "someone with the same memory *but different board* not having issues": perhaps Nordic can clarify this bit for us.

OTOH, EarthDog may be right and it could be a CPU's IMC issue.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 16, 2019)

HTC said:


> That's not what he said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...and I assumed that he was talking about the same board... why would he mention that RAM (but not *his* specific sticks/set which would tell us the RAM isn't bad)) works on other boards? What relevance is that? Another board is, well, another board and not relevant. 

That was my thinking so I assumed he saw the same kit on the same board as his (but neither being his) working.


----------



## HTC (Aug 16, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> ...and I assumed that he was talking about the same board... *why would he mention that RAM* (but not *his* specific sticks/set which would tell us the RAM isn't bad)) *works on other boards?* What relevance is that? Another board is, well, another board and not relevant.
> 
> That was my thinking so I assumed he saw the same kit on the same board as his (but neither being his) working.



Why wouldn't he? It's supposed to work @ 3600 with all 4 sticks and, because it works in other (AM4???) boards @ rated speeds *AND it's on the QVL of his board*, the RAM seems clearly capable of the rated speeds: all that's left is to test the RAM on another system to see if *HIS* RAM is OK or not since it could be an issue with HIS kit, which is what the test is supposed to rule out.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 16, 2019)

I don't think he tested HIS actual sticks in a different board yet. So the fact that the same set of sticks (but not *HIS* sticks) works on another board means nothing. Just because he saw the same set working on other boards, doesn't mean his set will work on his board. Is that more clear??? Because that is what he said. Looking into it deeper than that is only an assumption. 

Perhaps he will clarify upon return... this is making me dizzy, lol.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 16, 2019)

I was talking about the same sticks on a different board. I don't have another DDR4 system to test with. I have stuck with DDR3 until this build. I think seeing the same memory work on other ryzen systems is relevant because it shows that ryzen isn't finicky with this ram. Given that I can do 3533mhz Cas 14 and boot but not 3600mhz Cas 18 tells me it is probably not the memory, but the cpu or motherboard that is the issue. I have a hunch that it is the motherboard that is the issue, but like I said earlier, I am not 100% certain.

I think I should make a thread but it hasn't been that much of a priority. I have asked questions and received some help in this and other ryzen threads, but a dedicated thread to my issue would be a good idea when I am ready to do that.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 16, 2019)

So as I said, same sticks, not the same board. 



Nordic said:


> I think seeing the same memory work on other ryzen systems is relevant because it shows that ryzen isn't finicky with this ram.


Sorry, no... you can't really extrapolate that from the given info. 

Ryzen IS finicky with RAM... it isn't nearly as bad as Ryzen 1, but Ryzen 3 is still not up to Intel where you can throw in potatos and it will work, lol.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 16, 2019)

You can't elaborate that. I should have communicated more clearly.


----------



## HTC (Aug 16, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I was talking about the same sticks on a different board.* I don't have another DDR4 system to test with.* I have stuck with DDR3 until this build. I think seeing the same memory work on other ryzen systems is relevant because it shows that ryzen isn't finicky with this ram. Given that I can do 3533mhz Cas 14 and boot but not 3600mhz Cas 18 tells me it is probably not the memory, but the cpu or motherboard that is the issue. I have a hunch that it is the motherboard that is the issue, but like I said earlier, I am not 100% certain.
> 
> I think I should make a thread but it hasn't been that much of a priority. I have asked questions and received some help in this and other ryzen threads, but a dedicated thread to my issue would be a good idea when I am ready to do that.



Do you happen to have a friend that has a Ryzen CPU to help you out with that? All it's needed is to swap the sticks for yours and perform MemTest overnight @ the rated speeds, and then take pics of it, to document.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 16, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> If you think Ryzen 3000 is hard when it comes to RAM, be glad you missed the 1000 series, it was much, much worse.
> I had no problems with my "random" RAM that I admittedly got for my new build, as I had major issues with my old Corsair RAM as well.
> You might be right on the other hand that Corsair RAM and AMD is a bad mix.
> Note that only 2933MHz is officially supported for dual rank memory on Ryzen 3000, so going with higher clocks than that, isn't guaranteed. That said, some people here on the forums have managed 3600MHz.



Yeah, I figured it was the dual rank 32GB and it being 3200 at the same time that did it in. Fastest 32GB on the QVL is 2666. Though I think it's probably the board as well, the X570I Aorus supports up to 64GB and would probably better leverage the 3700X's ability to run 32GB. Even at JEDEC 2133, having both sticks in wouldn't post. GPU fan twitching and what not.

Unfortunately, no b-dies are in stock locally. So I'll have to settle for 3200 C16. The Corsair is still the cheapest and being LPX would allow me to push-pull my D9L properly, but something tells me I should just pony up $30 more for the Trident Z instead. G.skill has always been good to me with fast ram (like the Sniper 1866 C9 that I gave away a couple of years ago on here). Worst case, maybe I'll pull-pull my D9L instead.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 16, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Yeah, I figured it was the dual rank 32GB and it being 3200 at the same time that did it in. Fastest 32GB on the QVL is 2666. Though I think it's probably the board as well, the X570I Aorus supports up to 64GB and would probably better leverage the 3700X's ability to run 32GB. Even at JEDEC 2133, having both sticks in wouldn't post. GPU fan twitching and what not.
> 
> Unfortunately, no b-dies are in stock locally. So I'll have to settle for 3200 C16. The Corsair is still the cheapest and being LPX would allow me to push-pull my D9L properly, but something tells me I should just pony up $30 more for the Trident Z instead. G.skill has always been good to me with fast ram (like the Sniper 1866 C9 that I gave away a couple of years ago on here). Worst case, maybe I'll pull-pull my D9L instead.


Very odd, still, Corsair doesn't seem to have the best RAM for Ryzen.

Try Hynix CJR, they seem to work quite pain free as well, although not as quite as low latencies.

Spotted another 3800X review, which seems to make a difference between the 3700X and 3800X, somehow...








						AMD Ryzen 7 3800X review
					

We reviewed pretty much all Series 3000 processors from AMD, however one review had been missing, until today that is, join us un a review of the feisty and spicy Ryzen 7 3800X eight-core processor. ... Introduction




					www.guru3d.com


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 16, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Very odd, still, Corsair doesn't seem to have the best RAM for Ryzen.
> 
> Try Hynix CJR, they seem to work quite pain free as well, although not as quite as low latencies.
> 
> ...



I wondered, is Intel paying more to have these kits optimized for them or has Ryzen IMC just been such a shitter up until Matisse that no one has bothered making anything except B-die certified for ryzen?

What do you know, TPU actually has a review on the Trident Z GTZ kit. Still doesn't tell me who makes the NAND though.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 16, 2019)

HTC said:


> Do you happen to have a friend that has a Ryzen CPU to help you out with that? All it's needed is to swap the sticks for yours and perform MemTest overnight @ the rated speeds, and then take pics of it, to document.


I do not. My roommates and I have in total about 5 desktops in the house. I am the first one of our group of friends to upgrade into ddr4. For my Intel systems I would buy a $20 celeron just for troubleshooting purposes. I may have to find an amd equivalent.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 16, 2019)

Keep in mind any Zen+ cpu likely wont be able to run 32gb at 3600 in the first place. It would have to be a zen 2/ryzen 3 cpu.


----------



## HTC (Aug 16, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I do not. My roommates and I have in total about 5 desktops in the house. I am the first one of our group of friends to upgrade into ddr4. For my Intel systems I would buy a $20 celeron just for troubleshooting purposes. I may have to find an amd equivalent.



Bummer


----------



## Vario (Aug 16, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> It is the cheapest board on the X570 chipset for ASRock IIRC... what did you expect? the other boards are better... at least the two I have.
> 
> Not sure what you are reading but I can tell you the parts I had are not the same. Builldzoid has a vid in fact on the ITX board touting its VRM (and hating on the IC's in the memory area).
> 
> Is that memory on the QVL list? remember, this is AMD Ryzen and it can certainly be finicky.


The M/Pro 4 is usually the budget lineup.  On Z370, the M Pro 4 had a different and inferior VRM design compared to the upper mainstream Extreme4, Fatal1ty, Gaming, Taichi, etc.

It appears the same holds true for X570 but I don't know enough about these parts to say the degree.


			
				https://forum.level1techs.com/t/amd-x570-vrm-wiki/145055 said:
			
		

> *Motherboard**Controller**High Side**Low Side**Chokes**Doubler**ASRock X570 Aqua*IR35201 (6+2)IR3555 (12)Unknown/Not Applicable12IR3599 (6)*ASRock X570 Creator*IR35201 (6+2)IR3555 (12)Unknown/Not Applicable12IR3599 (6)*ASRock X570 Taichi*ISL69147 (6+1)SIC634 (12)SIC632A (12)12ISL6617A (7)*ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming X*ISL69147 (6+1)SIC634 (12)SIC632A (12)12ISL6617A (7)*ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming 4*UP9505PQGW (4+2)UP1962SD (8) or Sino power SM4337 (8)SM43368UP1961SQ (4)*ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming-ITX TB3*ISL69147 (4+2)ISL99227 (8)Unknown/Not Applicable8ISL6617A (4)*ASRock X570 Steel Legend*ISL69147 (4+2)SIC634 (8)SIC632A (8)8ISL6617A (4)*ASRock X570 Extreme4*ISL69147 (4+2)SIC634 (8)SIC632A (8)8ISL6617A (4)*ASRock X570 Pro4*UP9505PQGW (4+2)UP1962SD (8) or Sino power SM4337 (8)SM43368UP1961SQ (4)*ASRock X570M Pro4*UP9505PQGW (4+2)UP1962SD (8) or Sino power SM4337 (8)SM43368UP1961SQ (4)


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 16, 2019)

Anyone else have some weird cold boot behaviour? It's like POST always takes a long time, maybe ~10seconds before it reaches the logo screen, at which point onwards it's easy going.

During this time the CPU and case fans are on, but the board LEDs are off and the GPU fans twitch every few seconds, one usually a second after the other fan. Then about the 4th time around they spin up fully, the LEDs come on and the board POSTs.

I'm a little afraid to set XMP, so I'm just running on JEDEC right now. Both sticks seem to show up okay though. Gonna memtest in a bit.


----------



## Vario (Aug 16, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone else have some weird cold boot behaviour? It's like POST always takes a long time, maybe ~10seconds before it reaches the logo screen, at which point onwards it's easy going.
> 
> During this time the CPU and case fans are on, but the board LEDs are off and the GPU fans twitch every few seconds, one usually a second after the other fan. Then about the 4th time around they spin up fully, the LEDs come on and the board POSTs.
> 
> I'm a little afraid to set XMP, so I'm just running on JEDEC right now. Both sticks seem to show up okay though. Gonna memtest in a bit.


Do you have that issue with just a single stick of ram installed?  Do you have a reason to suspect its the memory?


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 16, 2019)

Vario said:


> Do you have that issue with just a single stick of ram installed?  Do you have a reason to suspect its the memory?



I don't know. I feel like it's the board. My last kit was a 32GB Corsair LPX 3200 C16, and could only boot with 1 DIMM. XMP was most definitely a no go. It did have the same long POST behaviour when it was working on 1 DIMM.

This time it's a 16GB Trident Z kit at the same speed and timing, and it works just fine *at JEDEC *with both DIMMs, aside from the kinda long POST. I'm really scared of trying XMP, but I'm gonna do it after I memtest at JEDEC. For science.

I can understand the burden of 32GB of 3200C16, but this 16GB kit should be able to boot right up. Unless the IMC on my 3700X just so happens to be a lemon, I don't think this is the fault of anything but the board. I knew I should have spent extra on the X570 Aorus, because I might have to go back there and exchange it for that anyway.

When it actually POSTs, it's fast as hell. To desktop in about 5 seconds. It's just the getting to the boot logo part that takes a bit of time. Usually announces itself with a big whoosh of the 1070's fans and the white LEDs on the board lighting up at the same time.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 16, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> white LEDs on the board lighting up at the same time.


For me it's the white LEDs on the keyboard coming on after the fans on the 2060 are done with full blast.  Oh and, longer POST for me since I switched from the 2600X.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 16, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> For me it's the white LEDs on the keyboard coming on after the fans on the 2060 are done with full blast.  Oh and, longer POST for me since I switched from the 2600X.



The fact that half my boards have underlighting is lost on me because they're encased in 1.5lb aluminium cases  it's the thought that counts

I get the feeling that if we had X570s for our 3600 and 3700X, we wouldn't have this problem. Still debating whether to go back and exchange the board; whether this kit will run at XMP will decide that today.

Also, this 3700X is pretty smart when it comes to security and still pretty retarded when it comes to power management huh. It's either max usage 99% and I bench lower than a 3770K, or max usage 100% and I get 50-60 degrees idle, max clocks, and 1.45V idle. Latest F42a BIOS, AMD chipset drivers, Ryzen Master, and Ryzen balanced.


----------



## TheMadDutchDude (Aug 16, 2019)

Ryzen does just take longer to POST than Intel, no getting around it.

It's getting much better, but it's still "slow" in comparison.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 16, 2019)

TheMadDutchDude said:


> Ryzen does just take longer to POST than Intel, no getting around it.
> 
> It's getting much better, but it's still "slow" in comparison.



Now that I've been having these issues and looking online, it seems that a lot of people have slow POST problems. Overwhelming majority of those threads seem to deal with bargain basement boards, and/or Ryzen 2000 on 300-series or Ryzen 3000 on 400-series boards. I built a R5 2600/B450 ITX build for a friend a couple of weeks ago, my first hands-on with Ryzen, and it felt pretty normal. Exact same board too, might I add, just with an older BIOS and its originally intended Ryzen 2000 chip. Maybe the whole backwards compatibility thing does pose a bit of a burden to the hardware? Or maybe NVMe self-test is causing the delay? I put in a SATA M.2 drive for him.

Funny enough, I set XMP and now the delay is down to about 3 seconds. Very nearly Intel POST speeds. If anything, I'd think the JEDEC spec would boot more comfortably than 3200 XMP, but I guess I was wrong. Benches like a beast now.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 17, 2019)

You're being too paranoid   
If something goes won't, just do a clear CMOS.
You're not going to break stuff just because you set something wrong in the UEFI.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 17, 2019)

The pro4 parts from your list arent great at all.


----------



## thesmokingman (Aug 17, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Now that I've been having these issues and looking online, it seems that a lot of people have slow POST problems. Overwhelming majority of those threads seem to deal with bargain basement boards, and/or Ryzen 2000 on 300-series or Ryzen 3000 on 400-series boards. I built a R5 2600/B450 ITX build for a friend a couple of weeks ago, my first hands-on with Ryzen, and it felt pretty normal. Exact same board too, might I add, just with an older BIOS and its originally intended Ryzen 2000 chip. Maybe the whole backwards compatibility thing does pose a bit of a burden to the hardware? Or maybe NVMe self-test is causing the delay? I put in a SATA M.2 drive for him.
> 
> Funny enough, I set XMP and now the delay is down to about 3 seconds. Very nearly Intel POST speeds. If anything, I'd think the JEDEC spec would boot more comfortably than 3200 XMP, but I guess I was wrong. Benches like a beast now.



My 3900x and Strix-E board boots fast, definitely faster and more reliable booting and shutting down vs my outgoing 7820x. That said, the 7820x was running a MSI Carbon, and that thing while it worked was often flaky. That's why I avoided the MSI/Giga boards this time around.


----------



## phanbuey (Aug 17, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> My 3900x and Strix-E board boots fast, definitely faster and more reliable booting and shutting down vs my outgoing 7820x. That said, the 7820x was running a MSI Carbon, and that thing while it worked was often flaky. That's why I avoided the MSI/Giga boards this time around.



how is the speed in games compared to the 7820?

my msi board takes frvr to cold boot.


----------



## thesmokingman (Aug 17, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> how is the speed in games compared to the 7820?
> 
> my msi board takes frvr to cold boot.



I haven't done that testing yet, just the benches. The 3900x walks all over the 7820x at 4.6ghz stock. It was slightly faster in single core and pummeled it in multi. Oh, I'm also using a different gpu than with the 7820x. That said, I'm not surprised yer MSI board takes forever to boot. My old board would not cold boot half the freaking time. Those little issues are damn annoying.

3900x@4.3ghz








						I scored 10 478 in Time Spy
					

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X, AMD Radeon VII x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




					www.3dmark.com
				



7820x@5ghz








						I scored 10 574 in Time Spy
					

Intel Core i7-7820X Processor, NVIDIA Titan X (Pascal) x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




					www.3dmark.com


----------



## phanbuey (Aug 17, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> I haven't done that testing yet, just the benches. The 3900x walks all over the 7820x at 4.6ghz stock. It was slightly faster in single core and pummeled it in multi. Oh, I'm also using a different gpu than with the 7820x. That said, I'm not surprised yer MSI board takes forever to boot. My old board would not cold boot half the freaking time. Those little issues are damn annoying.
> 
> 3900x@4.3ghz
> 
> ...



how is the 3900x with the 4 sticks of ram?  Are you using your ram from the quad channel kit you had?









						ASUS AMD AM4 ROG Strix X570-F Gaming ATX Motherboard with PCIe 4.0, Dual M.2, SATA 6Gb/s - Newegg.com
					

Buy ASUS AMD AM4 ROG Strix X570-F Gaming ATX Motherboard with PCIe 4.0, Dual M.2, SATA 6Gb/s, USB 3.2 Gen 2 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




^ is that the mobo?


----------



## Divide Overflow (Aug 17, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Anyone else have some weird cold boot behaviour?


I'm fine here.  I configured fast boot and get into Windows from a cold boot in next to no time.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 17, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> My 3900x and Strix-E board boots fast, definitely faster and more reliable booting and shutting down vs my outgoing 7820x. That said, the 7820x was running a MSI Carbon, and that thing while it worked was often flaky. That's why I avoided the MSI/Giga boards this time around.





Divide Overflow said:


> I'm fine here.  I configured fast boot and get into Windows from a cold boot in next to no time.



I mean, I would expect a X570 board to work flawlessly with Ryzen 3000, which it is specifically designed to complement...lol. If I had one instead of a B450 and it didn't, I would be one seriously angry man haha.

If I had to do it again, I would skip the whole backwards compatibility thing entirely. Does it work? Yeah. Does it work as flawlessly as it would with a current gen board? Nope.

I don't really expect it to be a problem of a specific vendor. Each has their own quirks and disadvantages. Here in Western Canada I literally have no choices, being severely limited by mini-ITX and then again by simply being in Canada. There was literally one reasonably priced B450 choice, and literally one X570 choice.


----------



## Divide Overflow (Aug 17, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Here in Western Canada I literally have no choices, being severely limited by mini-ITX and then again by simply being in Canada.


Don't knock Canada.  Shipping is a thing.


----------



## thesmokingman (Aug 17, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> how is the 3900x with the 4 sticks of ram?  Are you using your ram from the quad channel kit you had?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea, that's the board, running the latest 1005 bios. Yea, I'm using the TridentZ's I had on Intel. I had no problems with the ram, plugged them in and enabled docp. I did set cpu to use offset voltage. All said, it was an easy build to put together. It's feel pretty mature, not like the hiccups of a new setup.



			https://hardforum.com/data/attachment-files/2019/08/233741_20190815_1715211.jpg


----------



## phanbuey (Aug 18, 2019)

thesmokingman said:


> I haven't done that testing yet, just the benches. The 3900x walks all over the 7820x at 4.6ghz stock. It was slightly faster in single core and pummeled it in multi. Oh, I'm also using a different gpu than with the 7820x. That said, I'm not surprised yer MSI board takes forever to boot. My old board would not cold boot half the freaking time. Those little issues are damn annoying.
> 
> 3900x@4.3ghz
> 
> ...



I just ran my @4.7 7820x to compare... (I have the upgrade to 3900x itch):

https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/38616996?
im using 3733 @ c16 Team Tforce sticks so that's why the CPU score is a bit higher.

I think i will wait for zen2+ to upgrade... I kind of hope that Cascade lake X pushes prices down even lower (but im doubting it).


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 18, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> I just ran my @4.7 7820x to compare... (I have the upgrade to 3900x itch):
> 
> https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/38616996?
> im using 3733 @ c16 Team Tforce sticks so that's why the CPU score is a bit higher.
> ...


Then you'll wait forever, as there is no Zen 2+, the next core from AMD is Zen 3.


----------



## phanbuey (Aug 18, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Then you'll wait forever, as there is no Zen 2+, the next core from AMD is Zen 3.



No way?!  https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-threadripper-roadmap-confirms-4th-next-gen-hedt-cpus/

is Zen 3 a new socket?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 18, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> No way?!  https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-threadripper-roadmap-confirms-4th-next-gen-hedt-cpus/
> 
> is Zen 3 a new socket?


Not supposed to be.
The one after that will be though, as by then, we should be moving to DDR5.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 18, 2019)

This is my first AMD system since phenom. I am still learning about modern AMD cpu's. I was watching ryzen master while overclocking, and I noticed that no matter which workload I try my EDC only goes to 90% max. I changed the cpu load line calibration from the default level 5 to level 1. I also set the PBO scaler to 10x. EDC is now reaching a max of 97%. Max temps increased from ~70c to ~80c. Average clock speeds seem to have increased by about 100mhz and I am seeing slightly higher benchmark scores. My max clockspeed is still at most 4525mhz.

Edit: I found the settings in the bios to set the PPT, TDC, and EDC values to those defined by the motherboard manufacturer. I am now getting 33% EDC rather than 97%.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 18, 2019)

Nordic said:


> This is my first AMD system since phenom. I am still learning about modern AMD cpu's. I was watching ryzen master while overclocking, and I noticed that no matter which workload I try my EDC only goes to 90% max. I changed the cpu load line calibration from the default level 5 to level 1. I also set the PBO scaler to 10x. EDC is now reaching a max of 97%. Max temps increased from ~70c to ~80c. Average clock speeds seem to have increased by about 100mhz and I am seeing slightly higher benchmark scores. My max clockspeed is still at most 4525mhz.



3900X outputs a lot of heat, so 80c under full load isn't bad. What I want to know is what temps the VRM sensors on your board are reporting, if your CPU is reaching 80c.

It's probably not going to reach advertised max boost clock, so take it easy on your board.

On another note, I'm not sure if AMD has worked in some form of adaptive learning (i.e. like that which you might find in a transmission nowadays) into the Ryzen 3000 logic because the 3700X seems to be idling much better now. ~40c idle with most of the cores in sleep like they should be, and the few active ones clocked low, Vcore comes down to 0.9-1.0V according to Ryzen Master and CPU-Z.


----------



## thesmokingman (Aug 18, 2019)

phanbuey said:


> I just ran my @4.7 7820x to compare... (I have the upgrade to 3900x itch):
> 
> https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/38616996?
> im using 3733 @ c16 Team Tforce sticks so that's why the CPU score is a bit higher.
> ...



The upgrade to 3900x is not really for gaming or benching for me. I'm encoding something 24/7, plex server, streaming media to the house, whilst using it as my daily rig/gaming. In the latter regard, this chip is a huge improvement. I'd run out of oomph on the 7820x even at 4.6-4.8ghz.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 18, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> 3900X outputs a lot of heat, so 80c under full load isn't bad. What I want to know is what temps the VRM sensors on your board are reporting, if your CPU is reaching 80c.
> 
> It's probably not going to reach advertised max boost clock, so take it easy on your board.



My motherboard appears to only report southbridge temps, not vrm temps. My motherboard has a crappy vrm heatsink too. I put a 40mm fan on it so that the vrm heatsink will get some direct airflow.

Does any 3900x owner actually reach the max boost clock speed?


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 18, 2019)

Nordic said:


> My motherboard appears to only report southbridge temps, not vrm temps. My motherboard has a crappy vrm heatsink too. I put a 40mm fan on it so that the vrm heatsink will get some direct airflow.
> 
> Does any 3900x owner actually reach the max boost clock speed?


The set which matters, the ones on the left for the cpu, have a pretty beefy heat sink on it. It's the SOC bits up top that don't. Being one of not the least expensive x570 boards out...have to save money somewhere.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 19, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> The set which matters, the ones on the left for the cpu, have a pretty beefy heat sink on it. It's the SOC bits up top that don't. Being one of not the least expensive x570 boards out...have to save money somewhere.


I am considering buying a better x570 matx motherboard, if anyone ever releases one.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 19, 2019)

The mini itx phantom gaming tb3 thing is a beast and a mere $240.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 19, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I am considering buying a better x570 matx motherboard, if anyone ever releases one.



The thing about mATX boards is that they tend to be the bargain basement boards for a lot of vendors, and it really shows on their power delivery. Vendors cannot afford to skimp on ITX boards, and while they can on ATX the sheer range of ATX boards goes up to the ultra high end (i.e. 16 true or 8 doubled or quadrupled phases), whereas they don't seem to believe that there's a market for high end mATX.



EarthDog said:


> The mini itx phantom gaming tb3 thing is a beast and a mere $240.



The X570I Aorus and TB3 both have very impressive VRMs but now that buildzoid has mentioned it, what's up with all the crap between the socket and DIMMs? You never realize notice these things on a day to day basis, but when you actually look, literally all the other mITX boards out there have a keep out zone specifically to make room for those traces. 

I need someone to put one on the bench and thoroughly test it.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 19, 2019)

It happily ran 2x8gb ddr4 3600... 

I don't know if it will do 4533 like it says, but...


----------



## Nordic (Aug 19, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> The mini itx phantom gaming tb3 thing is a beast and a mere $240.


I was running an itx 4790k before this system. My motherboard died and I waited 3.5 months to see if ryzen 3000 was worth upgrading to. I sold my itx case. I ultimately want to get back into watercooling so I decided to do a bigger motherboard. My case only supports matx, and I didn't want to buy a new case.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 19, 2019)

Hi all,

I've recently downgraded my whole PC as I don't game that much or spend much time on my PC anymore so I went to a Ryzen 5 3600X with a AsRock B450m Steel Legend , kept 16GB of my previous RAM which is 2x8 Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200mhz CL16 ... so newbie Ryzen owner here so I don't know much about it. My problem is that I can't get the XMP profile to work on this mother board, I had done a bit of research and found some software on TPU for memory but I don't really have enough time to go and test lots of different options. Would the motherboard be the issue here or the RAM, any thoughts?

Thank you for your time


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 19, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've recently downgraded my whole PC as I don't game that much or spend much time on my PC anymore so I went to a Ryzen 5 3600X with a AsRock B450m Steel Legend , kept 16GB of my previous RAM which is 2x8 Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200mhz CL16 ... so newbie Ryzen owner here so I don't know much about it. My problem is that I can't get the XMP profile to work on this mother board, I had done a bit of research and found some software on TPU for memory but I don't really have enough time to go and test lots of different options. Would the motherboard be the issue here or the RAM, any thoughts?
> 
> Thank you for your time


Watch it, read top comments:









It's probably down to mobo's QVL and Corsair ram.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 19, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> Watch it, read top comments:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Will do, thanks. It was probably a mistake to get a AsRock motherboard.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 19, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I am considering buying a better x570 matx motherboard, if anyone ever releases one.


It looks like you're SOL.








						The AMD X570 Motherboard Overview: Over 35+ Motherboards Analyzed
					






					www.anandtech.com
				



It would seem that so far, only ASRock and Biostar is doing mATX boards and they're both quite naff...



Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've recently downgraded my whole PC as I don't game that much or spend much time on my PC anymore so I went to a Ryzen 5 3600X with a AsRock B450m Steel Legend , kept 16GB of my previous RAM which is 2x8 Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200mhz CL16 ... so newbie Ryzen owner here so I don't know much about it. My problem is that I can't get the XMP profile to work on this mother board, I had done a bit of research and found some software on TPU for memory but I don't really have enough time to go and test lots of different options. Would the motherboard be the issue here or the RAM, any thoughts?
> 
> Thank you for your time


Just start by setting the speed and timings manually and 1.35V and see where you end up.
Again, a lot of people have had issues with Corsair RAM, including myself, as my old RAM was the same type of modules you have and they wouldn't boot over 3066MHz, same as on my Ryzen 7 1700.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 19, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> It looks like you're SOL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you, I would incline to replace my RAM memory, would that be a good decision and what should I get ?


----------



## londiste (Aug 19, 2019)

Is there a good reason to get an X570 motherboard over B350/450 or maybe X370/470?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 19, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Thank you, I would incline to replace my RAM memory, would that be a good decision and what should I get ?


It might not be needed if you can it to run at 3200 manually. It's really not very hard and you might even be able to improve some of the XMP timings.
I bought some "cheap" Patriot Viper DDR4 3600 RAM and it runs both at lower timings and a fair bit higher clocks than what it's sold as. Not saying that this is recommended RAM, it was what I could find locally that was a good compromise between performance and price.
Keep in mind that Ryzen doesn't like odd CAS settings like 15 or 17.



londiste said:


> Is there a good reason to get an X570 motherboard over B350/450 or maybe X370/470?


Longer support from the board makers? Potentially a higher-end VRM design and obviously future proofing with PCIe 4.0 if you intend to own the board for a few years.


----------



## Rahnak (Aug 19, 2019)

londiste said:


> Is there a good reason to get an X570 motherboard over B350/450 or maybe X370/470?


Good or not is up to each individual but some reasons are:
- Generally better VRMs (as they now have to support up to 16 core CPUs)
- PCIE 4
- Better memory support/overclock


----------



## spectatorx (Aug 19, 2019)

How does it look like in case of 3900x's cooler? Does this one also doesn't have copper at all?









To be honest that's a dickmove from amd on saving literally cents by trading on noise.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 19, 2019)

spectatorx said:


> How does it look like in case of 3900x's cooler? Does this one also doesn't have copper at all?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Obvious troll is obvious. Have you done any research at all before posting? 3700X, 3800X and 3900X come with Wraith Prism RGB. Hardware unboxed has a video on that cooler on its channel, yet somehow you missed it?


----------



## londiste (Aug 19, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> Obvious troll is obvious. Have you done any research at all before posting? 3700X, 3800X and 3900X come with Wraith Prism RGB. Hardware unboxed has a video on that cooler on its channel, yet somehow you missed it?


Why is that necessarily a troll? 2700X also came with Wraith Prism RGB. Given that Wraith Spire did change considerably it is a valid question whether the rest of the cooler lineup is still the same.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 19, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Thank you, I would incline to replace my RAM memory, would that be a good decision and what should I get ?



Same timings, G.Skill. Exactly what I did after Corsair's kit shafted me and refused to meet its XMP profile speeds. 

Or get the C14 kit from G.Skill instead.


----------



## spectatorx (Aug 19, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> Obvious troll is obvious. Have you done any research at all before posting? 3700X, 3800X and 3900X come with Wraith Prism RGB. Hardware unboxed has a video on that cooler on its channel, yet somehow you missed it?


I know these cpus have different cooler and that's why i did ask if this downgrade also went for wraith prism. I'm really sometimes wondering if my english is really that bad (i'm aware it is far from perfect) or some people just can't answer in reasonable manner because of their own.... reasons. I'm not watching all of their videos, i just found this by accident while looking for some info about ryzen 3xxx series.


----------



## Vario (Aug 19, 2019)

Why don't they just throw a licensed CM 212 into the retail CPU box instead.  Most of the AMD heatsinks have been Coolermaster OEM anyway.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 19, 2019)

Vario said:


> Why don't they just throw a licensed CM 212 into the retail CPU box instead.  Most of the AMD heatsinks have been Coolermaster OEM anyway.


You should ask Lisa Su.


			https://twitter.com/LisaSu
		

lisa.su@amd.com


----------



## Xzibit (Aug 20, 2019)

AMD released new *Chipset Drivers v1.8.19.0915* today


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 20, 2019)

Xzibit said:


> AMD released new *Chipset Drivers v1.8.19.0915* today



So what exactly is new, I wonder? Changelog is literally Ctrl+V from 7/31/19 version.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 20, 2019)

After a few failed attempts to get the Corsair RAM working on my current board I decided to go with the Aorus X570 Elite...future proof, better VRM's and lots of goodies on it. Will get it Friday, hopefully my RAM will work better on this if not I will replace those as well.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 20, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> After a few failed attempts to get the Corsair RAM working on my current board I decided to go with the Aorus X570 Elite...future proof, better VRM's and lots of goodies on it. Will get it Friday, hopefully my RAM will work better on this if not I will replace those as well.


Have you verified Gigabyte's QVL if your ram is actually supported on that board?


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 20, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> Have you verified Gigabyte's QVL if your ram is actually supported on that board?


Yes, 2 slots not 4 XMP is supported as well.


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Aug 20, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> So what exactly is new, I wonder? Changelog is literally Ctrl+V from 7/31/19 version.


 do you familiar ww2 movies?american soldiers yells tigeeeeeeer when they saw one.this series yells voltageeee when they saw us on mouse.new driver didn't fix that.my old 2700x was calm.i can watch even movies and it didn't freak out.


----------



## HD64G (Aug 21, 2019)

Very interesting for many here and especially for those who got the 3800X


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 21, 2019)

HD64G said:


> Very interesting for many here and especially for those who got the 3800X


I wish I got the clocks he gets, but my fastest cores are like his slowest, on the same board...
Never seen 4450, let alone 4525, without enabling PBO and every other overclocking feature available in the UEFI, which shouldn't be a requirement.
Let's see what AGESA 1.0.0.4 brings...


----------



## HD64G (Aug 21, 2019)

I was sure that video would interest you very much *TheLostSwede . *Maybe you should try again with default UEFI settings in CB20 1-thread test?* If you didn't do this already* after the last UEFI update.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 21, 2019)

HD64G said:


> I was sure that video would interest you very much *TheLostSwede . *Maybe you should try again with default UEFI settings in CB20 1-thread test?* If you didn't do this already* after the last UEFI update.


I installed the F5o UEFI yesterday, didn't really look, but now it does seem that the CPU is hitting 4,500MHz at times, not all cores, but at least some of them are. This is just running simple things like browsers, Netflix, etc. not while gaming. So it might be as simple as being UEFI related.
This is still 1.0.0.3 something...


----------



## mstenholm (Aug 21, 2019)

That was your sixth BIOS update right? Still in beta I assume. Well it brings hope to others still waiting to get a CPU


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 21, 2019)

mstenholm said:


> That was your sixth BIOS update right? Still in beta I assume. Well it brings hope to others still waiting to get a CPU


Something like that, yes. And as I mentioned, AGESA 1.0.0.4 is expected in a week or two.
Downside with this UEFI is that I can't go past 3600 on the RAM, but hey, maybe the next non beta UEFI will solve that too...

This is interesting though, no idea what's going on here...
Restarting Ryzen Master didn't help...


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 21, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Something like that, yes. And as I mentioned, AGESA 1.0.0.4 is expected in a week or two.
> Downside with this UEFI is that I can't go past 3600 on the RAM, but hey, maybe the next non beta UEFI will solve that too...
> 
> This is interesting though, no idea what's going on here...
> ...



Isn't 3600 where you'd want to be on Ryzen 3000?

I'm pretty much on 4.4GHz now at times across most cores, but I'm just not seeing the exact 4400MHz number. Something like  4381MHz or something.

Gigabyte doesn't have much reason to care for my board, though. It's whatever, for every issue I've had I pretty much had myself to blame for not shelling out $300 for the X570I.


----------



## mstenholm (Aug 21, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Isn't 3600 where you'd want to be on Ryzen 3000?
> 
> I'm pretty much on 4.4GHz now at times across most cores, but I'm just not seeing the exact 4400MHz number. Something like  4381MHz or something.


Going from 3733 to 3600 1:1 will not benefit anyone. Sure beside benching the difference will not been noticed but that's not the real issue here. Why does BG release a beta that kills Ryzen Master?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 22, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Isn't 3600 where you'd want to be on Ryzen 3000?
> 
> I'm pretty much on 4.4GHz now at times across most cores, but I'm just not seeing the exact 4400MHz number. Something like  4381MHz or something.
> 
> Gigabyte doesn't have much reason to care for my board, though. It's whatever, for every issue I've had I pretty much had myself to blame for not shelling out $300 for the X570I.


I could do 3800 1:1, not that it seemed to make a huge difference in any of tests I ran, but even so...
3733 1:1 was 100% stable though.

Any ideas why Ryzen Master has decided to go transparent on me?
It's unusable like this. Even the installer follows the Windows desktop background colour...
*Edit:* Found the issue, it doesn't work with Nvidia FXAA enabled...


----------



## mbeeston (Aug 22, 2019)

i have a ryzen 9 3900X on my msi b450-A Pro... my "drunken rage" 14 hour gaming is fine... i'm not sure  i am....


----------



## HD64G (Aug 24, 2019)

*@TheLostSwede*


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 24, 2019)

Got the Aorus X570 Elite yesterday and got the same issues, tried 2 set of RAM kits(Corsair Vengeance 3200mhz and Gskill Aegis 3000mhz ) and none would load the XMP profile in the BIOS, I still get the BSOD in Windows even on the default settings. Installed fresh Windows . I requested a new CPU from Amazon and it is arriving today, maybe it is the CPU and also ordered Kingston Hyper X Predator 3200, arriving tomorrow. It is really annoying...


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 24, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Got the Aorus X570 Elite yesterday and got the same issues, tried 2 set of RAM kits(Corsair Vengeance 3200mhz and Gskill Aegis 3000mhz ) and none would load the XMP profile in the BIOS, I still get the BSOD in Windows even on the default settings. Installed fresh Windows . I requested a new CPU from Amazon and it is arriving today, maybe it is the CPU and also ordered Kingston Hyper X Predator 3200, arriving tomorrow. It is really annoying...


Are any of those you listed on the QVL? Did you update to the latest BIOS for the board?


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 24, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Are any of those you listed on the QVL? Did you update to the latest BIOS for the board?


Yes, I've updated the BIOS and yes the Corsair at least is on that list 100%. The Hyper X that I have is order are on the list for all the slots


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 24, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Yes, I've updated the BIOS and yes the COrsair at least is on that list 100%. The Hyper X that I have on order are on the list for all the slots


Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut, the stuff you just bought........I hope is......?

My man, things have improved RE: Ryzen and memory, but you really want to stick to the QVL especially if you are having trouble.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 24, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut, the stuff you just bought........I hope is......?
> 
> My man, things have improved RE: Ryzen and memory, but you really want to stick to the QVL especially if you are having trouble.


Did you read what I replied?


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 24, 2019)

So few questions:
- is boot time of 18 seconds normal? W10 on sx8200 Pro. With ultra-fast boot enabled. That being said it's from Task Manager, so who knows what it actually measures. Boot takes a bit long before Gigabyte logo is updated but I guess it's due to F3 bios I'm using which is stock
- temp fluctuations at idle - I assume that's normal (for Ryzen), at least from what I read in a thread over here
- ultra fast boot or regular? Ultra fast basically skips "del to enter bios"

I've mounted NVMe in second slot, since it's not a PCIe 4.0 drive. Should I keep it there, or mount it in first NVMe slot?




Specs are listed, all on X570 Aorus Elite


----------



## puma99dk| (Aug 24, 2019)

I am still strongly thinking about going AMD Ryzen but then it has to be the Ryzen 9 3900X but for motherboard I would really love to see som B550 chipset boards with a good vrm that doesn't look like a shit job.

If AMD gonna name the new B series chipset for Zen 2 that.


----------



## Khonjel (Aug 24, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> So few questions:
> - is boot time of 18 seconds normal? W10 on sx8200 Pro. With ultra-fast boot enabled. That being said it's from Task Manager, so who knows what it actually measures. Boot takes a bit long before Gigabyte logo is updated but I guess it's due to F3 bios I'm using which is stock
> - temp fluctuations at idle - I assume that's normal (for Ryzen), at least from what I read in a thread over here
> - ultra fast boot or regular? Ultra fast basically skips "del to enter bios"
> ...


slow boot time is only in NVMe iirc. I don't have one so didn't keep up with possible workarounds people posted in r/Amd last few weeks.

So what do you guys think about AMD possibly downclocking Ryzen 3000 chips in newer AGESA updates?

Quotes from Stilt and Shamino in overclock.net forums has riled the people there at r/Amd.

Basically if you don't reach the advertised PBO speed currently don't expect it to get "fixed" anytime soon. Plus I think they changed some boost algorithm too.

I'll wait a week or so until inevitably someone from AMD will make a blog post to clarify the issue. But do take a read here: 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cuk6bt


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 24, 2019)

Gigabyte (@)Bios is only showing F3 bios when I check any servers, support page has latest F4j. What's the deal?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 24, 2019)

Latest Gigabyte UEFI/BIOS is here 





						GIGABYTE Latest Beta BIOS
					

Warning Some of beta BIOSes are still undergoing compatibility testing. GIGABYTE is sharing these BIOSes for testing purposes only and are not meant f




					forums.tweaktown.com
				



Don't ask me why, but it's been like that for years.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 24, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Latest Gigabyte UEFI/BIOS is here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For now I've downloaded F4j from the site and updated with (@)BIOS from file. It worked.

Any recommendations for CPU and Vcore LLC? Simply set it to High from default Standard?


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 24, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> So few questions:
> - is boot time of 18 seconds normal? W10 on sx8200 Pro. With ultra-fast boot enabled. That being said it's from Task Manager, so who knows what it actually measures. Boot takes a bit long before Gigabyte logo is updated but I guess it's due to F3 bios I'm using which is stock
> - temp fluctuations at idle - I assume that's normal (for Ryzen), at least from what I read in a thread over here
> - ultra fast boot or regular? Ultra fast basically skips "del to enter bios"
> ...



I have the original SX8200NP and a "last BIOS time" in Task Manager of around ~18 seconds. I previously thought it was a Ryzen 3000 + B450 problem.

The fast boot options don't make a difference for me; once Windows starts booting everything is hella fast. You should probably just move it up to the first slot, it's not like NVMe/PCIe isn't backwards compatible. You get to use the board's heatsink too.

I'm not even sure if it's NVMe that causes this delay at boot. It seems like the most plausible explanation, but in that case, how come just changing from 2133 JEDEC speeds to 3200 C16 XMP cut down my pre-Windows booting time to 1/3 of what it was on JEDEC? Literally nothing else had changed with my system when this happened.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 24, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I have the original SX8200NP and a "last BIOS time" in Task Manager of around ~18 seconds. I previously thought it was a Ryzen 3000 + B450 problem.
> 
> The fast boot options don't make a difference for me; once Windows starts booting everything is hella fast. You should probably just move it up to the first slot, it's not like NVMe/PCIe isn't backwards compatible. You get to use the board's heatsink too.
> 
> I'm not even sure if it's NVMe that causes this delay at boot. It seems like the most plausible explanation, but in that case, how come just changing from 2133 JEDEC speeds to 3200 C16 XMP cut down my pre-Windows booting time to 1/3 of what it was on JEDEC? Literally nothing else had changed with my system when this happened.


I know it is, I'm just trying to save myself a hassle in case I'll ever get a 4.0 one.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 24, 2019)

I guess you guys boot 1 second faster than me, I'm on 19 seconds. Can't say it feels like it takes that long though...


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 24, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> I know it is, I'm just trying to save myself a hassle in case I'll ever get a 4.0 one.



Bruh, you only need to undo 1 screw and reinstall it again  I just received my replacement SATA daisy from Cablemod and was able to power up my MX300 and Blue3D again; working with 2.5" in confined spaces is such a bitch once you've experienced NVMe.



TheLostSwede said:


> I guess you guys boot 1 second faster than me, I'm on 19 seconds. Can't say it feels like it takes that long though...



It's somewhere between 15-19 seconds on average. It's not consistent, if judging by the number of times the GPU fans "twitch" before the board LEDs come on. But the actual perceived time from pressing the power button to Windows loading is more like 4-5 seconds, so Task Manager's number feels a little BS-y to me.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 24, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> I guess you guys boot 1 second faster than me, I'm on 19 seconds. Can't say it feels like it takes that long though...


20.3, so it's totally random. Realtek, OneDrive and Windows Security in startup. Funniest part is that my M6Pro on 3470 managed to boot in 7.3 sec.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 24, 2019)

All this boot talk.. what are each of you guys using to measure? I know task manager reads UEFI boot time, but that isnt Windows load...


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 24, 2019)

Yeah the actual load is like 3 sec tops.

Anyhow. After coming back from sleep case fans are spinning at full speed, any ideas?


----------



## Tomgang (Aug 24, 2019)

Man now that i have seen Intels comet lake line up, i am even more sure on my next upgrade will be Ryzen 3000. I cant wait to get a better gaming exsperience that a new CPU will give me over my old I7 980X cpu. AMD hurry up with that Ryzen 9 3950X. The wait has begin to become unbearable

And also i need new stuff to blow throw benchmark again.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 24, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> Yeah the actual load is like 3 sec tops.
> 
> Anyhow. After coming back from sleep case fans are spinning at full speed, any ideas?


Doesn't even come out of sleep for me if you've switched the multiplier from auto. Change it back to Auto though, and no problem resuming from sleep.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 24, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> All this boot talk.. what are each of you guys using to measure? I know task manager reads UEFI boot time, but that isnt Windows load...



I'm not talking about Windows boot time. Windows boots fast.

I'm talking about the time it takes to get to the logo screen, and therefore the BIOS, and by extension the start of the Windows boot process. I don't think I've had a single rig that has a weird mandatory delay like this between pressing the power button and the start of BIOS / GPU fan activity / board lights / any hard drive activity whatsoever. Judging from that lack of HDD activity, I guess it's just an NVMe thing, then?


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 24, 2019)

Just timed with a stopwatch how long after the power on switch is pushed it takes before Windows started to boot. 

19.53 seconds


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 24, 2019)

If you are timing the bios, use task manager.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 24, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Just timed with a stopwatch how long after the power on switch is pushed it takes before Windows started to boot.
> 
> 19.53 seconds



Wow, my perception of time is really skewed as hell nowadays. 15.90 timed with a stopwatch. Looks like Task Manager is pretty spot on.

15.90 until Windows 10 started to boot.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 24, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Wow, my perception of time is really skewed as hell nowadays. 15.90 timed with a stopwatch. Looks like Task Manager is pretty spot on.


That was up until it started loading Windows 10.



biffzinker said:


> That was up until it started loading Windows 10.



How many more seconds on top of that when Windows finally loaded not sure. Ran out of time


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 25, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> So few questions:
> - is boot time of 18 seconds normal? W10 on sx8200 Pro. With ultra-fast boot enabled. That being said it's from Task Manager, so who knows what it actually measures. Boot takes a bit long before Gigabyte logo is updated but I guess it's due to F3 bios I'm using which is stock
> - temp fluctuations at idle - I assume that's normal (for Ryzen), at least from what I read in a thread over here
> - ultra fast boot or regular? Ultra fast basically skips "del to enter bios"
> ...



Switch over NVMe to the first slot:


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 25, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Doesn't even come out of sleep for me if you've switched the multiplier from auto. Change it back to Auto though, and no problem resuming from sleep.


That sounds like a UEFI bug to me.



tabascosauz said:


> I'm not talking about Windows boot time. Windows boots fast.
> 
> I'm talking about the time it takes to get to the logo screen, and therefore the BIOS, and by extension the start of the Windows boot process. I don't think I've had a single rig that has a weird mandatory delay like this between pressing the power button and the start of BIOS / GPU fan activity / board lights / any hard drive activity whatsoever. Judging from that lack of HDD activity, I guess it's just an NVMe thing, then?


Keep in mind that you're graphics card can affect this as well, as the graphics card BIOS/UEFI is the first thing to start, you generally don't see that though, as the screen is blank on most boards with UEFI during that time. Then the UEFI kicks in. That said, my previous Asus board was just the same as this Gigabyte board, regardless of the OS drive being SATA or NVMe.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 25, 2019)

Tried to adjust ram freq and timing with DRAM calc. 3600 just wasn't stable with built in membench test - it threw errors on SAFE and FAST. 3466 is stable at both with XMP High Freq Support on lvl 2 I believe. Gonna DL memtest and validate.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 25, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Looks like Task Manager is pretty spot on.


I checked what Task Manager is reporting.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 26, 2019)

So...the Gigabyte BIOS has this option called Core Performance Boost, with possible Auto and Disabled modes.


With it on, temps + voltages + PWM speeds are a wild freaking ride, even at idle. SMT on, SMT off, Ryzen Balanced, Windows Balanced......none of it makes a difference.
With it off, the system actually behaves like it's sane. Idling between 37-40C, no more random fan spikes, Vcore not peaking past 1.0V. Mirrors the behaviour out of setting 99% Maximum Processor State, but even more stable.

Problem is, Vcore doesn't peak past 1.0V. Since Ryzen 3000 intertwines voltage with clockspeeds, this means that the 3700X never boosts past its base speed (3.6GHz). Yes, this also means that at full load, it barely breaks 50C and the fans don't even change from idle, but it also means that it never reaches any boost speed, ever.

I'm not sure what to do with this, honestly. The rewards of 7nm are really obvious with CPB off; at almost the exact same load clocks, the 3700X is nearly 25C cooler than the 4790K, sips roughly 80% the voltage, and is faster while bringing 2x the cores and 4x the threads to bear (I had HT off on security recommendation). With CPB off and staying at base clocks, the efficiency of the 3700X is nothing short of mindblowing. Fan speeds don't change with load. *At all*.

But at the end of the day, this isn't what's advertised. I was sold a CPU that boosts from 3.6 to 4.4GHz, and while I can forgive ~30MHz of missing frequency to the advertised 4.4GHz, I cannot forgive missing out on 800MHz. _*Generations and generations of Intel and AMD CPUs have worked just fine with a few of the cores at maximum boost speed, without 1.5V Vcore, 55C idle temperature spikes, and fan speed spikes that make my rig sound like a GE90*_. the firmware and software that control the 3700X are such hot garbage that I wouldn't even call this a finished product.

I'm not really demanding much from my system at the moment, so I might just leave it like this with CPB off for now and wait for a F43 BIOS with 1.0.0.4 AGESA. Quite honestly, I'll much rather lose a few frames in CPU-dependent games than keep on having a jet engine on my desk and running 1.50V through my new 3700X. Chances are, nothing will change.

Between the complete inability of my B450 board to run 32GB properly at respectable speeds and timings, and now this 3700X's all-or-nothing approach to thermals, I'm just a teeny bit regretful I didn't just get a 9700K instead. At least I can enjoy the everyday breakneck speeds of the SX8200.

@TheLostSwede thanks for the heads up, it's getting late and my patience is wearing thin with AMD.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

@tabascosauz you said on in both cases, so you might want to edit your post for clarity...

Also, what are you using to measure the CPU clock boosts with? HWInfo seems to be the most reliable thing.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 26, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> @tabascosauz you said on in both cases, so you might want to edit your post for clarity...
> 
> Also, what are you using to measure the CPU clock boosts with? HWInfo seems to be the most reliable thing.



HWInfo is generally reliable, with the one exception of idle clocks below 2.2GHz. For that, I have to visit Ryzen Master.

The difference in clockspeeds, voltages, temperatures and PWM are plain to see with HWInfo monitoring in the background. HWInfo, Ryzen Master, CPU-Z and OCCT all report the same thing: 100% load incites no more than 3.6GHz and 1.01V.

Also starting to think that Ryzen is going way too far with taking Vcore into its own hands. BIOS reports 1.225V. CPB on, 0.2/0.9/1.5V idle and 1.36V load. CPB off, 0.2/0.9V idle and 1.0V load. What's the point of still having a tweakable Vcore if it's just going to do whatever it likes?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> HWInfo is generally reliable, with the one exception of idle clocks below 2.2GHz. For that, I have to visit Ryzen Master.
> 
> The difference in clockspeeds, voltages, temperatures and PWM are plain to see with HWInfo monitoring in the background. HWInfo, Ryzen Master, CPU-Z and OCCT all report the same thing: 100% load incites no more than 3.6GHz and 1.01V.
> 
> Also starting to think that Ryzen is going way too far with taking Vcore into its own hands. BIOS reports 1.225V. CPB on, 0.2/0.9/1.5V idle and 1.36V load. CPB off, 0.2/0.9V idle and 1.0V load. What's the point of still having a tweakable Vcore if it's just going to do whatever it likes?


Yeah, agreed, it doesn't seem to see the real idle clocks, in fact, I can't see anything below 3,075.25MHz...
That said, I just tried to enable all the overclocking features and what not to see if it made any difference on the latest UEFI for the X570 Master and it doesn't do anything compared to running the board at standard settings.

That said, I don't have the issues you're having with the high Voltages at all times, but it was an issue on earlier UEFI versions, so maybe they'll get that fixed on your board in the next update as well.

You're clearly not getting the right boosts due to too low Voltage with your current settings, but that seems like a bug. That said, I've always had CPB set to Auto, but I can have a go at turning off to see what happens.

As for your last question, that's something you're going to have to ask AMD, as I don't have an answer for you.

This is mostly idle at the desktop with a few background apps running as well as Chrome, but with all auto OC settings enabled and maxed.





And this is with all the auto OC settings manually disabled in the UEFI.





Seeing the same boost clocks in both cases, i.e. up to 4,500.2MHz, so no odd behaviour like in your case.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 26, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> (...)


Set system fans to fixed rpm, set temp update interval to 5 sec on CPU fan in gigabyte software.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> So...the Gigabyte BIOS has this option called Core Performance Boost, with possible Auto and Disabled modes.



Aha! That was hidden somewhere else in the UEFI, not under the overclocking settings.
And you're indeed correct, it limits my CPU clocks to 3.9GHz, i.e. base frequency of the CPU.
That's a very odd option to have indeed.
Doesn't do squat in terms of thermals at idle for me though, but under full load the CPU obviously doesn't get as hot.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 26, 2019)

@TheLostSwede thanks. Yeah, the massive spread of idle voltage from 0.2V to 1.5V is a major concern for me. When you stress test with CPB off, does it actually hit 4.5GHz or does it just say that and actually top out at 3.9GHz in HWInfo?

Just another issue with saving money on a board not X570, I guess. Gigabyte does seem to release a lot of BIOSes for my board to keep it up to date with AGESA, but this problem clearly demonstrates that something's amiss.



Chomiq said:


> Set system fans to fixed rpm, set temp update interval to 5 sec on CPU fan in gigabyte software.



Unfortunately, that's a bit like burying my head in the sand. With CPB on, it's still feeding a 1.4V spike into the CPU regardless of what the fan setting is. Right now the fan reaction time is delayed but still enough to keep the temps from reaching 70C. Reducing the polling rate would just allow the CPU to roast. The fans would still kick in on longer spikes anyways.

CPB off clearly demonstrates that it does know how to behave itself, it just chooses not too on CPB.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> @TheLostSwede thanks. Yeah, the massive spread of idle voltage from 0.2V to 1.5V is a major concern for me. When you stress test with CPB off, does it actually hit 4.5GHz or does it just say that and actually top out at 3.9GHz in HWInfo?
> 
> Just another issue with saving money on a board not X570, I guess. Gigabyte does seem to release a lot of BIOSes for my board to keep it up to date with AGESA, but this problem clearly demonstrates that something's amiss.



Why is the spread an issue? Some of the cores are in deep sleep, so they go down to 0.2V, this happens normally for me now on the latest UEFI on my board.
It was an issue on early UEFI's where these ultra low Voltages weren't reported properly, but AMD fixed that in AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB and the new drivers.

And no, I can't boost at all with CPB disabled.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 26, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> @TheLostSwede thanks. Yeah, the massive spread of idle voltage from 0.2V to 1.5V is a major concern for me. When you stress test with CPB off, does it actually hit 4.5GHz or does it just say that and actually top out at 3.9GHz in HWInfo?
> 
> Just another issue with saving money on a board not X570, I guess. Gigabyte does seem to release a lot of BIOSes for my board to keep it up to date with AGESA, but this problem clearly demonstrates that something's amiss.
> 
> ...


Nm then, I now noticed that you're using M1v5.


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 26, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> @TheLostSwede thanks for the heads up, it's getting late and my patience is wearing thin with AMD.


The only way out I can think of is to manually re-adjust the fan settings in the BIOS, and stop looking at the voltage spike during boost in anything else but Ryzen Master. The other option is to find the maximum all cores heavy load overclock to get away from the 1.5V, also allows you to determine the highest voltage. The cores will still go into power saving state.



TheLostSwede said:


> Doesn't do squat in terms of thermals at idle for me though, but under full load the CPU obviously doesn't get as hot.


Sounds like the same as me disabling XFR, and PBO on A MSI motherboard. Last time I did it limits the CPU to just running at base clock speed.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 26, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Why is the spread an issue? Some of the cores are in deep sleep, so they go down to 0.2V, this happens normally for me now on the latest UEFI on my board.
> It was an issue on early UEFI's where these ultra low Voltages weren't reported properly, but AMD fixed that in AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB and the new drivers.
> 
> And no, I can't boost at all with CPB disabled.



The spread is an issue because it hits *idle voltages of 0.2-1.5V*. Load hits 1.3-1.4V which is still too high compared to the Vcore setting reported in the BIOS at 1.225V.

What's intriguing is that the BIOS is giving it 1.225V to work with up to 3.6GHz, but Ryzen is only deciding to use 1.01V even at that speed, which is only 0.1V above usual idle. That "missing" voltage gives me an idea.

As for idle, it's improved for me as well. 3700X idles in a very narrow range between 37-40C and strictly 0.9V with occasional dips to 0.2V. With CPB on, it's anywhere from 31-55C and 0.2/0.9/1.3/1.5V.



biffzinker said:


> The only way out I can think of is to manually re-adjust the fan settings in the BIOS, and stop looking at the voltage spike during boost in anything else but Ryzen Master. The other option is to find the maximum all cores heavy load overclock to get away from the 1.5V, also allows you to determine the highest voltage. The cores will still go into power saving state.
> 
> Sounds like the same as me disabling XFR, and PBO on A MSI motherboard. Last time I did it limits the CPU to just running at base clock speed.



Maybe CPB is what Gigabyte calls PBO? It's a long shot.

The fact that it might be about PBO lit up a faint light bulb. I'm thinking what I might be able to do is do away with boost entirely and manually adjust base clock and Vcore up in increments to see how close to max boost clock I can get without torpedoing thermals, using that 1.225V I've been given. After all, with CPB off, it works like a normal processor entirely within the range of 0 to Base Clock, which I should be able to adjust manually in BIOS. Which, coincidentally, is what I had to do with my 4790K.

Begrudgingly, it makes me appreciate Intel's experience tuning Turbo Boost for different TDPs over the years.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 26, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> The spread is an issue because it hits *idle voltages of 0.2-1.5V*. Load hits 1.3-1.4V which is still too high compared to the Vcore setting reported in the BIOS at 1.225V.
> 
> What's intriguing is that the BIOS is giving it 1.225V to work with up to 3.6GHz, but Ryzen is only deciding to use 1.01V even at that speed, which is only 0.1V above usual idle. That "missing" voltage gives me an idea.
> 
> ...


PBO is PBO, it's in AMD Overclocking section in BIOS and is enabled by default.









						Aorus Master x570 Perfect UEFI Settings
					

Setup> advanced mode.  Tweaker  Enable xmp.  CPU vcore -> normal  CPU clock control 100.01  Settings   AMD overclocking >  Ddr and infinity fabric frequency/timings > if dividers > set this to half your memory clock. E.g. 3600 mem = 1800 in this menu. Note that I don’t recommend 3600 – 3533 or a...




					forum.level1techs.com


----------



## Adam Krazispeed (Aug 26, 2019)

I got me a tasty new Ryzen 3700x from microcenter (sharonville Ohio) newegg and every where else (except EBAY ) were out of stock of every cpu except the 3600/3600X, was like WTF>>!!! 

my first 3700X died tho after about 2 hours, used in my Asrock  fatal1ty  X370 Professional gaming AM4 MB (1st Gen)  flashed bios to Agesa combo 1.0.0.1 )WTF sucj a low Version 1.0.0.3AB was out for all other MBs except mine. (now tho 1.0.0.3ABB is out on my x370 mb but removes PCI-e Gen4 support(MFkers) 

but took my bad 3700x back an exchanged it for another , this new one works way better can OC all Cores to 4.35Ghz  ALL CORES/Threads.. actually get better ST than running it astock??? 
i won silicon lottery this time for sure lol

but just went up yesterday and bought my Gigabyte X570 Aorus master ($359.99)  Microcenter shaonville ohio

my systems

#1   X570 - 3700X 8c/16t  Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master

#2  Current X399 Gigabyte aorus Gaming 7 R TR 1900X 8c/16t aug 2017

#3 Old 1st Gen ASROCK fatal1ty X370 Gaming Professional (Ryzen 7 1800X) Early Adopter, ordered on march 2nd 2017)  
tried out R5 2600X on 2nd gen soon to be and itx build once i get an itx mb fo my R7-1800X or R5-2600X old cpus..

**next build is gonna be an ITX gaming pc build using older parts, need an itx MB x370/x470, but need to find a good case small but can hold say up to a 1080 Ti or 2080 Ti for gpu upgradability.. and can support GPU Hybrid cooled cards also? rad support


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> The spread is an issue because it hits *idle voltages of 0.2-1.5V*. Load hits 1.3-1.4V which is still too high compared to the Vcore setting reported in the BIOS at 1.225V.
> 
> What's intriguing is that the BIOS is giving it 1.225V to work with up to 3.6GHz, but Ryzen is only deciding to use 1.01V even at that speed, which is only 0.1V above usual idle. That "missing" voltage gives me an idea.
> 
> ...



No, CPB is something entirely different. PBO is in a different part of the UEFI and on the X570 board you have to agree to a disclaimer before you can even access it.
This is with CPB disabled, but PBO enabled (well, auto). You can see PBO is enbabled because of the high values for PPT, TDC and EDC.







As for the Voltages, AMD has already said that it's normal to see peaks of 1.5V, so not sure what you're worrying about.


----------



## londiste (Aug 26, 2019)

Adam Krazispeed said:


> **next build is gonna be an ITX gaming pc build using older parts, need an itx MB x370/x470, but need to find a good case small but can hold say up to a 1080 Ti or 2080 Ti for gpu upgradability.. and can support GPU Hybrid cooled cards also? rad support


X370/X470 is quite pointless for gaming system. The only obvious benefit over B350/B450 is Crossfire which isn't a thing for ITX either way


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 26, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> No, CPB is something entirely different. PBO is in a different part of the UEFI and on the X570 board you have to agree to a disclaimer before you can even access it.
> 
> As for the Voltages, AMD has already said that it's normal to see peaks of 1.5V, so not sure what you're worrying about.



I can't remember, is the trend to smaller process complementary with a trend to higher voltages, or is it an inverse relationship? In any case, a good number of boards (mostly Asus, but not all) seem to be dumping obscene amounts of Vcore into their chips. I'd like to see if I can get past 4GHz without using any more than 1.225V. Maybe I've just been a 22nm guy, not used to seeing such high voltages.

I can't seem to see much of a difference with Default and PBO settings in Ryzen Master, because as long as CPB is on, everything behaves like PBO.



londiste said:


> X370/X470 is quite pointless for gaming system. The only obvious benefit over B350/B450 is Crossfire which isn't a thing for ITX either way



Not to mention most X470 ITX boards were literally identical to their B450 siblings except for what was under the PCH heatsink, yet considerably more expensive. Unless you're trying to snag one used.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

Well, Precision Boost is always enabled, the PBO version of it, shouldn't be, but seems to be on Auto, i.e. enabled on Gigabyte boards. It also seems to make ZERO difference once you ned up using AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB. Prior to that, it didn't do anything...


----------



## Vario (Aug 26, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> Switch over NVMe to the first slot:
> View attachment 130026


Nice bump in write performance.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 26, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Well, Precision Boost is always enabled, the PBO version of it, shouldn't be, but seems to be on Auto, i.e. enabled on Gigabyte boards. It also seems to make ZERO difference once you ned up using AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB. Prior to that, it didn't do anything...



Also, what's up with the Vcore settings in GB's UEFI? It's "auto" by default, but most people suggest "normal". There's no pop-up window. Do I have to type in "Normal" manually into the box? That's a real bruh moment, Gigabyte.

Maybe that'll help calm things down.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Also, what's up with the Vcore settings in GB's UEFI? It's "auto" by default, but most people suggest "normal". There's no pop-up window. Do I have to type in "Normal" manually into the box? That's a real bruh moment, Gigabyte.
> 
> Maybe that'll help calm things down.


Hit enter on any option to get a list of options, or hit N to change from Auto to Normal.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 26, 2019)

What are people's thoughts on AMD releasing bios that will lower boost clocks a bit in favor of stability? There was some comment about it earlier but not much discussion.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 26, 2019)

Nordic said:


> What are people's thoughts on AMD releasing bios that will lower boost clocks a bit in favor of stability? There was some comment about it earlier but not much discussion.


Considering I've had ZERO stability issues, it sounds odd. It's only a rumour so far, so let's wait and see...


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 26, 2019)

Same. No stability issues across several boards and bios... but still not reaching single core boost either.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 26, 2019)

I finally found a build where someone listed their temps with a 3900x and full custom water cooling. They had temps of 60c at full load. It is absolutely hard to cool these chips. The density is real.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 27, 2019)

Okay, day 2 of testing.

As @TheLostSwede predicted, PBO on or off makes no difference. It seems that CPB acts like an MCE of sorts, except that it's a really spiteful breed of MCE that won't let you have your boost clocks if you turn it off. CPB is looking like an archetypal yandere at this point.

Here's what I have so far:

*- CPB on, all clocks and voltages Auto ("1.225V")*: 3700X boosts like a madman causing temps / volts / PWM to spike randomly.
*- CPB on, all clocks and voltages Auto ("1.225V"), PBO off*: no difference, if anything, more of a madman. Will peak at 65C on desktop under literally no load.

*- CPB off, all clocks and voltages Auto ("1.225V"), (3.6GHz)*: 3700X is hard limited to 3.6GHz.

OCCT Large Data and Prime95 Blend are stable. No errors.
CPU maxes out at 100% load at 1.050V Vcore and 0.994V VID for all cores - literally nothing.
Does not exceed 53C in OCCT Large Data 15min.
Obviously, benchmark scores are disappointing.
*- CPB off, all voltages Normal (lie-o-meter "1.225V"), manually set to 4.0GHz*: 3700X is hard limited to 4.0GHz.

A one-off graphical artifact occurred on the UAC secure desktop, while launching HWInfo; unassuming desktop background looked like something out of a horror movie.
OCCT Large Data detects up to 7 errors within 5 seconds of initiating test, automatically stops the test ("crashes"). Consistently reproducible result.
Prime95 results in a BSOD (KERNEL AUTO BOOST LOCK ACQUISITION WITH RAISED IRQL) within 0.5 seconds of beginning Blend.
Vcore does not exceed 1.05V.
*- CPB off, all voltages Auto (lie-o-meter "1.225V"), manually set to 4.0GHz*: 3700X is hard limited to 4.0GHz.

Identical results to above, minus graphical artifact.
Combined with above run, litters WHEA Event Log (errors) with dozens and dozens of entries within half an hour.
Vcore does not exceed 1.1V.
*- CPB off, Vcore manually set to 1.3V, manually set to 4.2GHz*: 3700X is hard limited to 4.2GHz.

Idle is a bit warmer than at 4.0GHz, and with light load will move into 40s and 50s. But fan ramp-up and slowing down are progressive and smooth.
OCCT Large Data is not stable. No errors until almost 4min30sec into test, when BSOD (KERNEL AUTO BOOST LOCK ACQUISITION WITH RAISED IRQL).
Same 1.3V Vcore, down to 1.25V at max droop. VID still 1.1V.
Full load OCCT temps reach 73C.
*- For shits and giggles, CPB off, Vcore manual 1.3V, 4.4GHz*:

Cannot boot Windows.

EDIT:

*- CPB off, Vcore manually set to 1.3V, manually set to 4.1GHz*: 3700X is hard limited to 4.1GHz.

Cannot initialize Prime95 on one of the worker threads. Fatal error. Other workers do just fine, but that's a no-no.
*- CPB off, Vcore manually set to 1.3V, manually set to 4.0GHz*: 3700X is hard limited to 4.0GHz.

Idle is not spiky, but is warmer than 3.6GHz, dipping into the 40s occasionally.
OCCT Large Data is stable. No errors.
Prime95 Small FFT is stable in the short term (~19 minute test). Smallest FFT is not feasible not because of stability, but because it will break 90C.
In OCCT, full load hovers around 1.3V mark Vcore, with up to 0.05V of droop. VID is a fair bit lower at 1.1V for all cores.
Full load temps are consistently around 70C in OCCT.
Prime95 Small reaches a thermal equilibrium of sorts around 87C.
It looks the 3700X is happy at 4.0GHz for now, with manual input of 1.3 volts. Problem is, the volts don't come down at idle because it counts as "manual overclocking" when I set the clocks and volts. HWinfo, CPU-Z report 1.27-1.3V at idle. Ryzen Master is confused and reports continuous 1.099999V.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 27, 2019)

I think you worry too much about things that are "normal" for Ryzen 3000.
The problem is that AMD hasn't been great at communicating what is normal.
My Voltages fluctuates like crazy and so does the temperatures, however, if you've read any of the limited feedback from AMD, this is how the CPUs are designed.
The Ryzen 3000 thermal sensors react quite differently to previous generations of CPUs and they seem to report the hottest temperature in the chip and the least bit of load, will cause temperatures to spike, but they also drop back just as quickly. This is "strange" behaviour compared to past generations of CPUs and it's something AMD could've communicated much better.
Yes, I was also wondering about all of this, but from what I have managed to find, it's all the new "normal".
What I cant' complain about is stability, as despite all of the weirdness, my system is 100% stable.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 27, 2019)

Does anyone know if the free 3 month game pass for an AMD purchase expires? I won't be doing my final build for awhile still.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 27, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Does anyone know if the free 3 month game pass for an AMD purchase expires? I won't be doing my final build for awhile still.
> 
> 
> > *Offer available through participating retailers for eligible purchases made July 1, 2019 through March 10, 2020 or when supply of coupon codes is exhausted, whichever occurs first. Void where prohibited.  Full offer terms at www.amdrewards.com/terms. Game Pass for PC:  Over 100 PC Games available starting August 2019. Gears 5 available fall 2019.  Game Pass code must be redeemed by June 30, 2020.  Limit one promotional 3-month subscription per Microsoft account over a 12-month period.  Requires the Xbox (beta) app and Windows 10 (with updates).  Age restrictions and system requirements apply. Game catalog varies over time.  Learn more at Xbox.com/gamepass.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 27, 2019)

cool, so I got until June of next year.  thanks Chromiq.


----------



## Khonjel (Aug 27, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> cool, so I got until June of next year.  thanks Chromiq.


... or when supply of coupon codes is exhausted

hehehe. Iirc RX 500 game bundle codes also ended early.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 27, 2019)

^ this

I've entered my code on Sunday, still waiting for it to activate.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 27, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> ^ this
> 
> I've entered my code on Sunday, still waiting for it to activate.



ouch... oh well, it's only $4.99 a month for the Game Pass anyway, I already subscribe to it because it's so cheap and a great value.

I just downloaded CrossCode on there, a great game!  Honestly if Microsoft can keep Game Pass this cheap... $7.99 in 2021, and like $9.99 in 2023... I'd gladly stay subscribed for several years, lot of great games already and more added weekly. It's an amazing deal.  

I will pass on Ubisoft's though, $15 a month for theirs... no thanks... and skipping Origin as well because they have too many tiers and it gives me a headache finding which game I need for what tier so I said screw it, plus cost too much imo what you get, and Origin is the only client that ever crashes on me.

I'm surprised how well Microsoft has executed the Game Pass, very unlike them to do something right, sadly price will probably skyrocket once it comes out of beta, and I will unsub then.  /shrug


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 27, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Does anyone know if the free 3 month game pass for an AMD purchase expires? I won't be doing my final build for awhile still.


The Xbox (beta) app is super buggy. Worst "game launcher" I've used to date.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 27, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> The Xbox (beta) app is super buggy. Worst "game launcher" I've used to date.



Really? I have literally had 0 issues with it. I have played Shadow of War, Crosscode, and a few other games with it.  I think maybe your issues are AMD hardware related, AMD seems to have a lot of bugs in general still, which is why I am holding off on my build. 

Win 10 - clean install - latest drivers, gtx 1070 and i7-7820HK cpu, and literally had 0 crashes, and 0 issues playing games on Game Pass


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 27, 2019)

Yeah, MS has problems with "stable" software, no surprise that "beta" is a buggy mess.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 27, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Really? I have literally had 0 issues with it. I have played Shadow of War, Crosscode, and a few other games with it.  I think maybe your issues are AMD hardware related, AMD seems to have a lot of bugs in general still, which is why I am holding off on my build.
> 
> Win 10 - clean install - latest drivers, gtx 1070 and i7-7820HK cpu, and literally had 0 crashes, and 0 issues playing games on Game Pass


Seriously, wtf? Why would the fact that the crappy beta app doesn't download the games I try to download have anything to do with my CPU? They show up as downloading in the Windows store app though, for no apparent reason.
On top of that, it keeps randomly logging my out, not allowing me to launch games and other things at are clearly related to the Xbox app. Every single game launcher I have besides the Xbox one works just fine. So no, this has NOTHING to do with my CPU. But hey, Intel fanboy in AMD discussion, slagging off AMD for no reason... Maybe you should stick to what you know then?


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 27, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Seriously, wtf? Why would the fact that the crappy beta app doesn't download the games I try to download have anything to do with my CPU? They show up as downloading in the Windows store app though, for no apparent reason.
> On top of that, it keeps randomly logging my out, not allowing me to launch games and other things at are clearly related to the Xbox app. Every single game launcher I have besides the Xbox one works just fine. So no, this has NOTHING to do with my CPU. But hey, Intel fanboy in AMD discussion, slagging off AMD for no reason... Maybe you should stick to what you know then?



I just bought a 3700x a couple weeks ago... I'm an intel fanboy?  I'm stating something logical... if I have 0 issues with the same app on intel/nvidia... it probably means its AMD related, same as to when (and still) Destiny 2 has issues with latest Ryzen...


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 27, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I just bought a 3700x a couple weeks ago... I'm an intel fanboy?  I'm stating something logical... if I have 0 issues with the same app on intel/nvidia... it probably means its AMD related, same as to when (and still) Destiny 2 has issues with latest Ryzen...


Right, of course, I think you should return it for a refund then, as clearly it's a POS...


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 27, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Right, of course, I think you should return it for a refund then, as clearly it's a POS...



or wait for drivers to mature and the RX 5800 release... but ok, stay negative homie


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 27, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Seriously, wtf? Why would the fact that the crappy beta app doesn't download the games I try to download have anything to do with my CPU? They show up as downloading in the Windows store app though, for no apparent reason.
> On top of that, it keeps randomly logging my out, not allowing me to launch games and other things at are clearly related to the Xbox app. Every single game launcher I have besides the Xbox one works just fine. So no, this has NOTHING to do with my CPU. But hey, Intel fanboy in AMD discussion, slagging off AMD for no reason... Maybe you should stick to what you know then?


Have a Snickers.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 27, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> Have a Snickers.



this really made me laugh, well done.  there is no reason to be so mad, I honestly don't care either way, it's just the most logical explanation I can think of why he is having issues with that and I am not


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 27, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> this really made me laugh, well done.  there is no reason to be so mad, I honestly don't care either way, it's just the most logical explanation I can think of why he is having issues with that and I am not


Right, the most logical reason a BETA program is buggy, is because of my CPU... 
I think you want to check your logic...


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 27, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Right, the most logical reason a BETA program is buggy, is because of my CPU...
> I think you want to check your logic...



yeah... if said program works fine on someone else's gear... what are the variables that changed?  in this situation the gpu ans cpu changed and the other user had 0 issues. similar to destiny 2.


----------



## Rahnak (Aug 27, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> yeah... if said program works fine on someone else's gear... what are the variables that changed?  in this situation the gpu ans cpu changed and the other user had 0 issues. similar to destiny 2.


There are plenty more variables that can result in his particular problem other than cpu and gpu. Other software, different software configuration, network configuration, geographical location, the list goes on. The problem may not even be on his end. It's a sea of variables.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 27, 2019)

Rahnak said:


> There are plenty more variables that can result in his particular problem other than cpu and gpu. Other software, different software configuration, network configuration, geographical location, the list goes on. The problem may not even be on his end. It's a sea of variables.



Yeah agreed, but the strongest evidence points to an AMD issue. I expect if it is, it will be fixed fast though since 3 free months is included for all new buyers anyway


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 27, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> but the strongest evidence points to an AMD issue.


LOL, no it doesn't. That is the point TLSwede is trying to make. Correlation is not causation!


----------



## Rahnak (Aug 27, 2019)

A few years ago I used one of those apps to block all telemetry from W10 and one of the side effects was losing the ability to install stuff from the MS Store. IT would say it was downloading/installing and nothing would happen (because it couldn't connect to MS some servers).


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 27, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> I think you worry too much about things that are "normal" for Ryzen 3000.
> The problem is that AMD hasn't been great at communicating what is normal.
> My Voltages fluctuates like crazy and so does the temperatures, however, if you've read any of the limited feedback from AMD, this is how the CPUs are designed.
> The Ryzen 3000 thermal sensors react quite differently to previous generations of CPUs and they seem to report the hottest temperature in the chip and the least bit of load, will cause temperatures to spike, but they also drop back just as quickly. This is "strange" behaviour compared to past generations of CPUs and it's something AMD could've communicated much better.
> ...



I understand that this is how Ryzen 3000 is supposed to work, but it feels a lot like AMD is trying to reach what are in essence, unattainable clockspeeds, by leveraging this generation's aggressive PB2 to save it from disaster at the last second.

What do I mean? With any 65W SKU in the past, you have an initial period of boost when you can hit those speeds on the box, and then TDP takes over, and you're back to either base speed or Turbo Table's (for Intel) recommended allcore speed. This way, you can have that burst speed whule staying within the power and thermal envelope.

With the 3700X, it's not content with that burst. PB2 ensures that even at *full load*, it's a constant cycle of

Ryzen reaches 4361MHz
Ryzen finds it wholly unsustainable on power
Ryzen scales back to 3900MHz
Ryzen starts twiddling its thumbs
Ryzen goes back to 4361MHz
Whereas you can have a 9400F or 9700 and on a Z390 have it run at max boost all day long and it'll be happy as long as it's cooled, Ryzen isn't. It's too "smart" a CPU that it's always trying to give you that boost speed. But at the same time, it is so strict on itself that it can't stay at those speeds, but also so enthusiastic that it can't make do with anything less than max boost.

Case in point: Prime95. People say a lot of things about P95 but at the end of the day, if you can pass P95 for extended periods, your system is stable. With Ryzen constantly fluctuating in speed and voltage, what is stable anymore?

I am missing out on a whole bunch of performance at 3.6GHz, but it's, if anything, a more traditional experience.

As for stability, I always have one WHEA error popping up whenever I let Ryzen do its PB2 thing. The only sure thing is that I don't get it at base speeds, so as long as it's boosting, I get that WHEA.

At 3.6GHz, 7nm Ryzen is the perfect storm of efficiency. Is it just me or do I remember AMD initially showing off the IPC gains and efficiency gains with a ES 3700X running at sub-4GHz? Thats because it's Ryzen's sweet spot. Pushing it further, as they've done, is either to close the gap with Intel or overcome the shame of selling a CPU that can barely beat its predecessor, the 2700X. And honestly, there's no shame, because that's how 7nm is right now, but the market doesn't see it that way.

I guess this is the price we pay for 7nm early adoption without waiting for process optimization. Where AMD is right now technologically is not quite where you want to or need to be, ideally.


----------



## phanbuey (Aug 27, 2019)

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbizxh

it might also be related to your videocard driver...

"This issue is a flaw in firmware's using AGESA 1.0.0.1 and 1.0.0.2, it has resulted in previously stable Ryzen 1x00 and 2x00's to be unstable and produce the same errors.
users should move to agesa 1.0.0.3 based firmwares if on 3k cpu's once released, or downgrade back to older firmwares if using 1 and 2k products."

Looks like the current AGESA is not the stablest of the bunch when pushed - basically affecting nvidia users at a larger rate than others.  Nvidia was able to reproduce.

I feel like this is why the 3900 (non-x), if they make it, with a clean PBO boost to 4.2 or 4.1 Ghz (and an ageasa update) might be the best ws chip of the bunch.


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 27, 2019)

@tabascosauz This is with CPB on, PBO on, everything pretty much at default in gigabyte bios, apart from memory timings and frequency:






And it's 32C outside. No AC in room.

With Mozilla and TPU in background:


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 27, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> @tabascosauz This is with CPB on, PBO on, everything pretty much at default in gigabyte bios, apart from memory timings and frequency:
> 
> And it's 32C outside. No AC in room.
> 
> With Mozilla and TPU in background:



There's no point for me. Temperature doesn't matter. I have central A/C. My case may be small, but I'm already pull-pulling the D9L with A9s (a setup that handles my 4.4 all core voltage-lemon 4790K with ease). I've tested with the F12 (almost directly over top the D9L) running max PWM (jet engine mode) and it barely makes 1 degree of difference when I'm doing OCCT Large.

For an analogy, imagine my not-OC-happy 4790K had its max allcore *STOCK* boost set by Intel at 4.6GHz instead of 4.2GHz. It would have an absolutely abominable time because it's already on the cusp of a voltage wall at 4.4. Basically seems to be what's happening with my chip, AMD wants it to do x GHz but it physically just isn't up to the task.

No point in even running Linpack and P95 because with CPB on, Ryzen's pulling back and advancing its clocks on its own accord.

There are three possibilities that are not necessarily mutually exclusive:

1) My 3700X is on the lower end of the lottery. Might explain why it's an angel at base clock and Diablo at even 4.2GHz, and why others seem to do better.

2) The B450I Aorus isn't built to handle the 3700X.

3) Gigabyte is doing a terrible job on preparing 400-series BIOSes for Ryzen 3000.

----

@phanbuey I would very much love for it to be a GPU driver thing, and for a simple WHQL rollout to solve the problem, but it doesn't look like it as at base speeds, no WHEA errors are tripped _*ever*_. Reinforces my belief that AMD's strategy of demanding more than the chips can deliver, just to suit their marketing team - the poorly binned ones would suffer significantly. Also, there have been a few Geforce driver releases in the past month since that thread was created and they were "looking into the issue"; since I'm on the Gamescom driver, they clearly are either still "looking" or have ignored it altogether.

Deep down, I don't feel like Nvidia is responsible here or the root cause of these issues. AMD clearly needs to get their shit together. I don't think I have ever offered more than lukewarm praise for Intel's _*hardware*_, but the software and firmware they develop to support said CPUs is generally solid. From the 1.0.0.2-1.0.0.3A AGESA fiasco and the ongoing gong show that is driver support for RX 5700, I think we know where AMD stands on this. Maybe 1.0.0.4 will be a bit better for me, maybe not.

Have got a new WHEA event today, aside from the usual one. Looks like AMD and Nvidia just really don't want to work together.


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Aug 27, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> I have the original SX8200NP and a "last BIOS time" in Task Manager of around ~18 seconds. I previously thought it was a Ryzen 3000 + B450 problem.
> 
> The fast boot options don't make a difference for me; once Windows starts booting everything is hella fast. You should probably just move it up to the first slot, it's not like NVMe/PCIe isn't backwards compatible. You get to use the board's heatsink too.
> 
> I'm not even sure if it's NVMe that causes this delay at boot. It seems like the most plausible explanation, but in that case, how come just changing from 2133 JEDEC speeds to 3200 C16 XMP cut down my pre-Windows booting time to 1/3 of what it was on JEDEC? Literally nothing else had changed with my system when this happened.



i've noticed something.fast boot disable in bios and windows but when i change mouse and keyboard windows starting with no loops like flash on samsung 970 m2 but now i can't do it.windows doesn't "loading" anything it only search mouse and keyboard.sorry for the wallpaper.  






						VID_20190810_230400_x264
					

MediaFire is a simple to use free service that lets you put all your photos, documents, music, and video in a single place so you can access them anywhere and share them everywhere.



					www.mediafire.com


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 28, 2019)

So I've decided to go back to Intel after moving to AMD with their latest generation, I've just only had issues since I've moved and I came from a hassle free Intel rig (not a fanboy) . I really like what AMD is doing right now and I really wanted this to work (changed a few MB and CPU and RAM) the system is not stable in idle most of the times, I get frequent BSOD's. I tried all the options over the internet (apparently there are a few people with this issue). Also the CPU tends to get very hot , especially on core 2nd and 6th. I don't really have the time to sort this out as I have a 18 month old boy, downgraded as I don't use the PC that much anymore but I wanted something to just work out of the box without any issue. I am an IT technician so I kind of know how to troubleshoot but in this case it is taking too much time...I know that with time the bugs and issues will be sorted but I can't wait. I will keep my 5700XT as I really like it.
If anyone wants to upgrade to this gen I would say give it a bit more time, especially if you want a Ryzen 5, the X570 chipset is an overkill for this, wait for B550 imo...
Sorry for the long post.


----------



## londiste (Aug 28, 2019)

I have been seeing BSODs caused by drivers in my B450/2400G system with last 2 drivers. Unfortunately, I have been updating both chipset and GPU drivers so I am not sure which ones are root of this evil.
Getting very hot is probably expected. 1.5V to a single core will get that core pretty hot pretty fast and this is normal operation for Ryzen 3000 CPU. It is nothing to worry about.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 28, 2019)

londiste said:


> I have been seeing BSODs caused by drivers in my B450/2400G system with last 2 drivers. Unfortunately, I have been updating both chipset and GPU drivers so I am not sure which ones are root of this evil.
> Getting very hot is probably expected. 1.5V to a single core will get that core pretty hot pretty fast and this is normal operation for Ryzen 3000 CPU. It is nothing to worry about.


I've reinstalled Windows a couple of times on different drives, latest updates and drivers.Also I have the latest BIOS
The high temps are showing on only 2 cores the rest are below 50C but the 2 ones are over 80C in AIDA64 Extreme stability test


----------



## Nuckles56 (Aug 28, 2019)

Interesting that you guys have been having so many issues with with your new systems, my 3700x with gigabyte's x570 m-itx board has been dead stable for me, the only times I've had crashes or anything has been when I've been playing with overclocks


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 28, 2019)

Anyone with a Ryzen 3 CPU and Asus X570 board have issues installing AISuite 3? I'm suddenly not able to get it to work. The app will install but throws off the message:

The system cannot find the file specified, ProgID:
"AsusFanControlService.FanControlManager"


If I google that, the hits return to 2018 and point to a windows update and a way(ways) to fix it...of which none work. The funny thing is that I installed it literally a couple of weeks ago on a budget X570 Asus board, but it won't work on the fully updated (bios 1805) Crosshair VIII....


EDIT: Fixed. Had ot run CC Cleaner for the registry, then run AIS Cleaner, then reinstall. Weird.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 28, 2019)

Changed my mind and I am willing to go through with this, I will order new RAM and get windows installed on my non m.2 drive. I hope I can get rid of those BSOD's...ran AIDA64 Extreme stability test for 1 h 20 min yesterday with the CPU OC'ed to 4250mhz 1.28v and it worked fine. My only problem is when is idle...tried disabling C state, put normal voltage value on idle in BIOS...same issue


----------



## yesyesyes (Aug 28, 2019)

Ryzen 3600 on a B450 Steel Legend motherboard, everything up to date, not a single problem in the world. All core boost goes to 4.2. Temps rarely go over 60.  No CPU overclocking or modified settings. What's up with you guys buying a new CPU or new motherboard just cuz you try to overclock and don't know how. There is a very specific guide on this website, coupled with a very good DRAM Ryzen Calculator. Plenty of demo's online. Go to that thread and try to fix your timings there. Don't forget that the manufacturers XMP profile on the DDR is sometimes completely off and won't boot at those timings.
Tips:
on asrock BIOS:  modify the XMP profile first timings, reboot, modify AMD CBS timings if anything is wrong, reboot, remove XMP profile from OC panel and do more tweaking in AMD Overclock if you wanna push it.
readings: Don't use anything else but AMD Ryzen Master for all your readings, everything else is wrong. correct Temps only provided by ryzen master!!!
use the DRAM calculator (as per everyone's instructions), and try either V1 or V2. follow this thread and read it in it's entirety.
The only way to test your RAM improvements are his Memtest, that is already included in the DRAM Calc. If you have any problems, just post your configuration and screenshots. He is usually quite responsive.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 28, 2019)

Yeah, first thing I would do if you're having stability issues is disable XMP. 
I haven't had that running stable on any of my two AMD rigs that I've had.
Also, remember the Ryzen 3000 (and possible all Ryzen chips) don't like odd CAS timings at all.
Otherwise it seems like you can in general run your memory on much tighter timings on Ryzen 3000 compared to the Intel rated XMP profiles.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 28, 2019)

Used the Mem calculator for both my kits, none of them are stable at those settings...even for the safest...

I think it is not the best thing to assume that people that have issues don't try to find solutions or are not applying the existing ones...some issues are just there and I am an IT technician and I have the knowledge but for someone that does not this would be much more frustrating so I am stating my case...Intel had no issues running my Corsair Vengeance 3200mhz xmp profile ...AMD can't (2 motherboards tested) and the memory is on the MB QVL

I will get a 3rd kit to test...


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 28, 2019)

yesyesyes said:


> Ryzen 3600 on a B450 Steel Legend motherboard, everything up to date, not a single problem in the world. All core boost goes to 4.2. Temps rarely go over 60.  No CPU overclocking or modified settings. What's up with you guys buying a new CPU or new motherboard just cuz you try to overclock and don't know how. There is a very specific guide on this website, coupled with a very good DRAM Ryzen Calculator. Plenty of demo's online. Go to that thread and try to fix your timings there. Don't forget that the manufacturers XMP profile on the DDR is sometimes completely off and won't boot at those timings.
> Tips:
> on asrock BIOS:  modify the XMP profile first timings, reboot, modify AMD CBS timings if anything is wrong, reboot, remove XMP profile from OC panel and do more tweaking in AMD Overclock if you wanna push it.
> readings: Don't use anything else but AMD Ryzen Master for all your readings, everything else is wrong. correct Temps only provided by ryzen master!!!
> ...



Did you just join TPU just to assume that our problems are related to overclocking or timings? I mean, if you've at all read the past few pages...

It has been stated multiple times that Ryzen 3000's *idle* characteristics are in question here. Furthermore, what's to say your chip isn't simply a better luck of the draw than mine? I can barely push 4.0 at 1.3V, and someone said 1.34V was the max safe voltage at max load.

Also, a 3600 is not a 3600X, and neither is it a 3700X, so while the fact that yours doesn't exceed 60 (which in itself doesn't mean anything unless you're running OCCT and P95 like I am) is great news, it doesn't mean much.

Anyhow, welcome to TPU.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 28, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Used the Mem calculator for both my kits, none of them are stable at those settings...even for the safest...
> 
> I think it is not the best thing to assume that people that have issues don't try to find solutions or are not applying the existing ones...some issues are just there and I am an IT technician and I have the knowledge but for someone that does not this would be much more frustrating so I am stating my case...Intel had no issues running my Corsair Vengeance 3200mhz xmp profile ...AMD can't (2 motherboards tested) and the memory is on the MB QVL
> 
> I will get a 3rd kit to test...


It's just a tool, as I've pointed it out, it gives me worse timings than my memory can run at. However, I had a kit of Corsair memory that I couldn't run anywhere close to the timings it gave me. Even on this new rig, it would not post over 3000MHz and it was a 3200MHz kit.

I really think it's your Corsair kit, as you're far from the first that's having issues with Corsair memory and Ryzen processors, QVL or no QVL. My Corsair kit is on the AMD QVL, but it was a no good. I have some "cheap" Patriot Viper Steel memory now and it works way beyond my expectations. You can't compare Intel and AMD when it comes to RAM compatibility, unfortunately.

As such, as a starting point, to try to figure out where the potential blue screen issue is, start by now enabling XMP and set the memory up manually.

As for your odd core hot spots, it's not something I've experienced and clearly an unrelated issue. It shouldn't cause any problems though, weird as it may be, but also keep in mind that the Ryzen 3000 chips fluctuate like crazy when it comes to CPU temps and can jump 20 degrees in a matter of seconds.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 28, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> It's just a tool, as I've pointed it out, it gives me worse timings than my memory can run at. However, I had a kit of Corsair memory that I couldn't run anywhere close to the timings it gave me. Even on this new rig, it would not post over 3000MHz and it was a 3200MHz kit.
> 
> I really think it's your Corsair kit, as you're far from the first that's having issues with Corsair memory and Ryzen processors, QVL or no QVL. My Corsair kit is on the AMD QVL, but it was a no good. I have some "cheap" Patriot Viper Steel memory now and it works way beyond my expectations. You can't compare Intel and AMD when it comes to RAM compatibility, unfortunately.
> 
> ...



Already done that, XMP or not the BSOD's are happening and I can run Stress tests for hours without a problem. In my PC now I have a Kit of GSkill Aegis 3000mhz SAMSUNG B die...same issues. Lots of people go through this over the internet...it is just annoying


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 28, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Already done that, XMP or not the BSOD's are happening and I can run Stress tests for hours without a problem. In my PC now I have a Kit of GSkill Aegis 3000mhz SAMSUNG B die...same issues. Lots of people go through this over the internet...it is just annoying


And you're running that kit on stock settings?
Also, which UEFI are you on?


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 28, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> And you're running that kit on stock settings?
> Also, which UEFI are you on?


Latest BIOS F4j also set the settings manually for the XMP as it won't boot by itself, I had to increase voltage to 1.36 and set calibration to Level 3 in BIOS for the RAM ... I will get probably the same "cheap" Patriot Viper Steel kit 3600mhz and see how that goes


I am running out of options...


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 28, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Latest BIOS F4j also set the settings manually for the XMP as it won't boot by itself, I had to increase voltage to 1.36 and set calibration to Level 3 in BIOS for the RAM ... I will get probably the same "cheap" Patriot Viper Steel kit 3600mhz and see how that goes
> 
> I am running out of options...



Very odd, I would hang on for AGESA 1.0.0.4, as it should be out with in the next week or so from Gigabyte. 
It seems like you have an unreasonable amount of issues though.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 28, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> LOL, no it doesn't. That is the point TLSwede is trying to make. Correlation is not causation!



well I am going back to playing games on Game Pass with no crashes or issues at all.  /shrug take care


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 28, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> well I am going back to playing games on Game Pass with no crashes or issues at all.  /shrug take care


Go on, be that guy...
The games don't crash, the issues is with the Xbox app being a POS, but yeah, you have some reading comprehension issues so...


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 28, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Latest BIOS F4j also set the settings manually for the XMP as it won't boot by itself, I had to increase voltage to 1.36 and set calibration to Level 3 in BIOS for the RAM ... I will get probably the same "cheap" Patriot Viper Steel kit 3600mhz and see how that goes
> 
> I am running out of options...



Are Core 2 and 6 clocking the same as the rest under load, or are they pulling more voltage? I wonder if they're either the best cores by a significant margin so the chip pushes them harder, or if they're the worst cores by a large margin and just suck at their job.

Coincidentally, my board actually automatically gives my Trident Z sticks 1.36V. I think they're 1.35 sticks? After my CPU started being given 1.4V at CPB load I didn't have time to notice the RAM volts.

Consistency has never been a strong suit of Ryzen but this time around AMD is really going the Ford way in quality control...search up 2018 5.0 oil consumption and 5.0 / 3.5EB VCT rattle. Sucks because just like the 5.0, the 3700X is such a great SKU in theory. The 5.0's inadequacies robbed me of more than ten grand in the end, so let's hope Ryzen doesn't take after it.

Sadly, I got my 3700X barely 2 weeks before the Game Pass offer hit stores. At this point, this is a regular feature of my luck.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 28, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Go on, be that guy...
> The games don't crash, the issues is wit the Xbox app being a POS, but yeah, you have some reading comprehension issues so...



not really, I have 0 issues with the app too.  and all games downloaded fine.


----------



## Tomgang (Aug 28, 2019)

About ryzen boost clock and why they dont boost fully out at times. Asus employed has spoken out about it and according to him, AMD has made boost less aggressiv to improve the cpu´s life span.









						Ryzen 3000: AMD deliberately limited Boost behavior in favor of longevity, says Asus staff
					

An Asus employee gas mentioned that AMD has reduced the boost behavior of the Ryzen 3000 processors to a more moderate level as it was too aggressive and now is a bit more limited in favor of longevit...




					www.guru3d.com


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Aug 28, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> well I am going back to playing games on Game Pass with no crashes or issues at all.  /shrug take care




Both my AMD and Intel system run the xbox beta with zero issues. Sorta surprised people are having issues with it at all. All games download at pretty decent speeds 0 crashes etc.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 28, 2019)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Both my AMD and Intel system run the xbox beta with zero issues. Sorta surprised people are having issues with it at all. All games download at pretty decent speeds 0 crashes etc.



nice to know it can be confirmed a specific issue for swedes setup and not AMD alone.  cheers for sharing mate


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 28, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> nice to know it can be confirmed a specific issue for swedes setup and not AMD alone. cheers for sharing mate


what?

Wasnt it you who pinned amd to the wall on this not believing anyone else?



lynx29 said:


> I think maybe your issues are AMD hardware related, AMD seems to have a lot of bugs in general still, which is why I am holding off on my build.





lynx29 said:


> if I have 0 issues with the same app on intel/nvidia... it probably means its AMD related, same as to when (and still) Destiny 2 has issues with latest Ryzen..





lynx29 said:


> but the strongest evidence points to an AMD issue.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 28, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> nice to know it can be confirmed a specific issue for swedes setup and not AMD alone.  cheers for sharing mate


And you're now on my ignore list...



Tomgang said:


> About ryzen boost clock and why they dont boost fully out at times. Asus employed has spoken out about it and according to him, AMD has made boost less aggressiv to improve the cpu´s life span.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's one of their overclockers, not sure that should be taken as gospel. Shamino is a nice guy and all, but he clearly doesn't run the motherboard department at Asus. Let's wait and see what AGESA 1.0.0.4 delivers.

My CPU wouldn't boost 1MHz past 4,400.25MHz until I installed UEFI F5o (which is a beta release), but has since boosted to 4,525MHz at times, so it's clearly an issue that can be fixed.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 28, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> what?
> 
> Wasnt it you who pinned amd to the wall on this not believing anyone else?



this was before new information entered, aka oxru sharing his experience with Game Pass.  sorry you don't understand context...


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 28, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> this was before new information entered, aka oxru sharing his experience with Game Pass.  sorry you don't understand context...


Pot calling the kettle black much? Dear God man are you oblivious... you disregard 2+ others and then suddenly 'get it' with a rando and tosses out barbs that dont land in the process. SMFH. You made a leap of faith blaming AMD when there wasn't any worthwhile evidence to say so with confidence... you fell short of the other side.

If it really was an AMD issue, wouldn't you see multiple (like a lot) of posts here about such a thing...AMD and Windows XBox gaming doesn't work and you hear from ONE guy? Come on man, you know better than that!


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 28, 2019)

Cores all at 100%, temps only high on 2 cores especially high on the second core

Also just turned on my pc opened the web browser and got this


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 28, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Cores all at 100%, temps only high on 2 cores especially high on the second core
> 
> Also just turned on my pc opened the web browser and got this


That's driver related, not hardware related. Hard to say which driver, but something is going on that's not CPU or memory related.
I would start by taking out the sound card and see if the crashes continues and then try to eliminating things one by one if that's not it.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 28, 2019)

Replaced CPU, Motherboard, RAM twice...installed fresh windows. Still getting this and a few others, these are repeating and are not in order. Have the latest drivers...


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 28, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Replaced CPU, Motherboard, RAM twice...installed fresh windows. Still getting this and a few others, these are repeating and are not in order. Have the latest drivers...


Yes, so that leaves your soundcard and any other piece of hardware that's not on the motherboard.
The driver is from 2015, if you're using the one from Asus, so I suspect that is the issue, but it might not be.
Add to that, the current issues with sound drivers in Windows 10 and it might be the perfect storm. 
You're free to ignore my advice, but this is a driver related BSOD.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 28, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Yes, so that leaves your soundcard and any other piece of hardware that's not on the motherboard.
> The driver is from 2015, if you're using the one from Asus, so I suspect that is the issue, but it might not be.
> Add to that, the current issues with sound drivers in Windows 10 and it might be the perfect storm.
> You're free to ignore my advice, but this is a driver related BSOD.


I am using the integrated one at the moment, did not install the DGX after I've re-installed Windows
I get other error messages as well...I've seen people on the internet complaining about this issue, unfortunately I've tried everything and nothing works...


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 28, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> I am using the integrated one at the moment, did not install the DGX after I've re-installed Windows


What else is using drivers then, that's not a motherboard component or the graphics card?
Microsoft are unusually unhelpful in this case...


			https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4028391/windows-how-to-fix-error-0xa-irqlnotlessorequal


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 28, 2019)

GPU...which was replaced as well and it is new...other then that nothing


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 28, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> GPU...which was replaced as well and it is new...other then that nothing


I see people with Nvidia cards having the issues, but not AMD cards...

A random weird question, is the RAM in the correct slots as per the manual?
Gigabyte tends to do funny things with regards to which slots the memory goes into first.
These are also their first range of boards with serial connected memory, rather than their typical T-topology, which is meant to improve overclocking when using two modules, but will result in reduced performance when using four modules.

_For optimum performance, when enabling Dual Channel mode with two memory modules, we recommend that you install them in the DDR4_A2
and DDR4_B2 sockets._

And did you try UEFI F4m from here?





						GIGABYTE Latest Beta BIOS
					

Warning Some of beta BIOSes are still undergoing compatibility testing. GIGABYTE is sharing these BIOSes for testing purposes only and are not meant f




					forums.tweaktown.com


----------



## Chomiq (Aug 28, 2019)

So the issue why my mouse wasn't being detected at boot sometimes was... Gigabyte's Ultra Fast Boot. Switched it to Fast Boot and the issue's gone. It actually looks like boot time improved, since now it's at 16.6 sec.

Edit.
Again, 16.8. Well I guess Ultra Fast isn't that fast.


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 28, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> I see people with Nvidia cards having the issues, but not AMD cards...
> 
> A random weird question, is the RAM in the correct slots as per the manual?
> Gigabyte tends to do funny things with regards to which slots the memory goes into first.
> ...


The RAM is in those slots I did not try the latest BIOS, I've changed Windows from my nVme to my SATA SSD...let's see if that changes anything


----------



## Liviu Cojocaru (Aug 30, 2019)

Issue sorted (at least for the moment) got the 16GB Patriot Viper Steel Memory 3600mhz CL 17 but they crash with that profile in Windows so I used Ryzen Mem Calclulator and I use this config now (see attached). It was the RAM all the time. I will refund the X570 as there is no point to have an overkill motherboard and next time I upgrade I will get a new MB so...
Going back to B450 Steel Legend from ASrock as it is a good price for a good MB and will change the cooling from the DC Neptwin to Corsair H100x (back to AIO). Also will replace the Corsair case as it can not accommodate the radiator on top so I got the CoolerMaster H500


----------



## Nordic (Aug 30, 2019)

Looks like I have a BIOS Update available now to 1.8. Hopefully this gives me some kind of tangible improvement.





EDIT: I couldn't clock my memory higher. I can not produce any tangible performance improvements in benchmarks. Theoretically my system is more compatible though


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 30, 2019)

Liviu Cojocaru said:


> Issue sorted (at least for the moment) got the 16GB Patriot Viper Steel Memory 3600mhz CL 17 but they crash with that profile in Windows so I used Ryzen Mem Calclulator and I use this config now (see attached). It was the RAM all the time. I will refund the X570 as there is no point to have an overkill motherboard and next time I upgrade I will get a new MB so...
> Going back to B450 Steel Legend from ASrock as it is a good price for a good MB and will change the cooling from the DC Neptwin to Corsair H100x (back to AIO). Also will replace the Corsair case as it can not accommodate the radiator on top so I got the CoolerMaster H500


Why so slow memory clocks?
Ryzen 3000 doesn't like odd CAS settings at all.
I run mine at 16-16-19-19-36 at 3600MHz no problem.
Good to hear that you at least solved one problem.


----------



## Tomgang (Aug 30, 2019)

I have not yet order any CPU or motherboard as i am waiting for 3950X to come out. But i can now official say, i have just put in a order for the memory i want for my ryzen build. 
G.Skill TridentZ Neo DDR4-3600 C14 32GB kit. Raw spec is 3600 MHz CL14-15-15-35 at 1.4 volts Samsung B-die. Cost 5200 Dkr. that is around 770 USD with danish taxes. I have to order them now as there are a long wait time to get them. And i need them latest to november as there is when i exspect to have it all ready or at least december as the very latest.






						RAM. Køb billige RAM / Hukommelse til PC m.m her - Stort udvalg
					

Hos os finder du PC RAM til computere, Mac og servere. Find DDR3 RAM og DDR4 RAM billigt - Gode tilbud og stort udvalg




					www.proshop.dk
				












						F4-3600C14Q-32GTZN-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
					

G.SKILL




					www.gskill.com


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 30, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> I have not yet order any CPU or motherboard as i am waiting for 3950X to come out. But i can now official say, i have just put in a order for the memory i want for my ryzen build.
> G.Skill TridentZ Neo DDR4-3600 C14 32GB kit. Raw spec is 3600 MHz CL14-15-15-35 at 1.4 volts Samsung B-die. Cost 5200 Dkr. that is around 770 USD with danish taxes. I have to order them now as there are a long wait time to get them. And i need them latest to november as there is when i exspect to have it all ready or at least december as the very latest.
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, but why? That's more than what a very good graphics card costs.


----------



## Tomgang (Aug 30, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Sorry, but why? That's more than what a very good graphics card costs.



Simple answer: Because i can

Longer answer: Because Ryzen likes high clock and low timings. I have to order 32 GB now as 16 GB will not be enough for me the coming years. It cant wait as Samsung either has ended or will end production of B-dies very soon and i dont want to risk in like 2-3 years, i cant bay more memory at that time. Besides that i am spending more money on memory as that is a better way to get more performance out of Ryzen 3000 than spending money on a custom water loop. I mean AMD has al ready maxed Ryzen chips to its max stock pretty much. So i am cheaping out on cpu cooling by droping a custom loop and just stick with a Noctua NH-D15 cooler and spend some more money on memory where thare are more gain in performance. Also i have my hardware for a long time (just see my old hardware i have now in my profile). We can agreed that price vs. performance is not great on these memory, but i want to be sure that i push every bit of performance out of that Ryzen 9 3950X when i get it.

With B-die it shut be possible to output 1.5 volts throw them and lower timings and/or raise memory clock a bit more.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 30, 2019)

Tomgang said:


> Simple answer: Because i can
> 
> Longer answer: Because Ryzen likes high clock and low timings. I have to order 32 GB now as 16 GB will not be enough for me the coming years. It cant wait as Samsung either has ended or will end production of B-dies very soon and i dont want to risk in like 2-3 years, i cant bay more memory at that time. Besides that i am spending more money on memory as that is a better way to get more performance out of Ryzen 3000 than spending money on a custom water loop. I mean AMD has al ready maxed Ryzen chips to its max stock pretty much. So i am cheaping out on cpu cooling by droping a custom loop and just stick with a Noctua NH-D15 cooler and spend some more money on memory where thare are more gain in performance. Also i have my hardware for a long time (just see my old hardware i have now in my profile). We can agreed that price vs. performance is not great on these memory, but i want to be sure that i push every bit of performance out of that Ryzen 9 3950X when i get it.
> 
> With B-die it shut be possible to output 1.5 volts throw them and lower timings and/or raise memory clock a bit more.



> want to push every bit of performance out of 3950X
> buys a 32GB kit for $500USD
> D15 is enough

Bruh, cooling is never too much for Ryzen. Even custom loops barely hold a 3900X back from its rampage.

I'm not saying the D15 is bad. It's an absolute unit. But if you drop $500 on a kit of 32GB for alleged "absolute performance"...there are things you can't overcome with ram freq, timings and volts alone, namely the Ryzen IMC...

Just because the 3950X won't be OCing much doesn't mean it's a cool running chip. Also, you do know that Ryzen 3000's IMC brings appreciably higher RAM latency over even Ryzen 2000, right? Just get a decent 3200C14 B-die and call it a day.

By the way, you're not raising mem clock any more beyond 3600 because that would necessitate 2:1 IF, and that goes against "absolute performance". If you read the scaling reviews, all of them peg tight fast 3600 as being the fastest setup for Ryzen 3000.


----------



## Tomgang (Aug 30, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> > want to push every bit of performance out of 3950X
> > buys a 32GB kit for $500USD
> > D15 is enough
> 
> ...



I know 3900X can run hot, but it´s also depends on cooling type and airflow. 3950X according to AMD shut have binned chiplets and i al ready have taken care of airflow in my case. Also if AMD stock cooler can cool it, A Noctua NH-D15 shut be more than capable of cooling it. Remember Ryzen dont have much headroom for overclock over stock any way. I dont exspect 3950X to go over 4.3 GHz for an all core manuel overclock. Also NH-D15 will also run with a another setup. I will run NH-D15 with thermal grizzly kryonaut paste and replace stock fans with Noctua industrial IPPC 3000 RPM 120 MM fans i all ready have. Al ready tried out this setup on my current Noctua NH-D14 on my I7 980X oc to 4.4 GHz and that lowered cpu core temp with around 8 degree celsius over stock noctua fans and paste.

Also ryzen 3000 can run with memory at 3733 MHz to 3800 MHz at 1:1 infinity fabrik. It just needs to be tweaked in manuel. Most motherboards will by default change from 1:1 to 2:1 after 3600 MHz. Also depends on how good a chip i get. As some CPU´s can only run infinity fabrik up to 1800 MHz while others can go to 1900 MHz where memory will run at bout 3800 MHz. So if my chip will only run 1800 MHz on IF i will stick to 3600 MHz and lower timings. Can the CPU run IF at 1900 MHz i will try to set memory to 3733-3800 MHz and ajust timings according to that.

I will not stick to 3200 MHz. Deffently not.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 30, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Bruh, cooling is never too much for Ryzen. Even custom loops barely hold a 3900X back from its rampage.



I went from the stock fan on my scythe mugen and no case fans to two NF-A12x25 on the cpu cooler and some case fans for airflow. This improvement in cooling potential didn't result in a serious temperature drop. The bottleneck seems to be more on how fast the heat can be transferred from the cpu to the heatsink. I am half tempted to go get some distilled water and try to rush a custom water cooling loop together. I was hoping to set a loop up after I move into a new place in the next year, but the desire is there now. I am afraid I would go through the effort to not see much of a temperature drop. But so far in my experience, more cooling doesn't help much. I am getting 5c higher temps than someone with a full custom 360mm radiator cooling loop that I found.

Maybe lapping would help.


----------



## Vario (Aug 30, 2019)

Maybe a water chiller?


----------



## NoJuan999 (Aug 30, 2019)

I was going to wait until early next year to upgrade from my 2600 to a Ryzen 3000 CPU but since Asus finally released a decent BIOS for my B450-F Gaming I pulled the trigger ealry.
I'm waiting for a Ryzen 7 3700x to arrive (should be here today or tomorrow).


----------



## biffzinker (Aug 30, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> I was going to wait until early next year to upgrade from my 2600 to a Ryzen 3000 CPU but since Asus finally released a BIOS for my B450-F Gaming I pulled the trigger ealry.
> I'm waiting for a Ryzen 7 3700x to arrive (should be here today or tomorrow).


You should notice a difference from the 2600 unless you had a golden chip. I know I did from the 2600X.


----------



## kmetek (Aug 30, 2019)

NoJuan999 said:


> I was going to wait until early next year to upgrade from my 2600 to a Ryzen 3000 CPU but since Asus finally released a BIOS for my B450-F Gaming I pulled the trigger ealry.
> I'm waiting for a Ryzen 7 3700x to arrive (should be here today or tomorrow).



How will updated BIOS help you? You happy with board?


----------



## NoJuan999 (Aug 30, 2019)

kmetek said:


> How will updated BIOS help you? You happy with board?


The latest BIOS version (2704) uses AGESA 1.0.0.3 ABB and a few people have posted that it works Much better than the previous BIOS versions with a Ryzen 3000 series CPU.
And Yes I amd very happy with my motherboard so far.
I have been running a Ryzen 5 2600 (OC'd to 4 GHz) on it since November 2018 and haven't had any issues with it so far.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 30, 2019)

Vario said:


> Maybe a water chiller?


That would do it.


----------



## Roddey (Aug 30, 2019)

I am able to get 3600 cas 14 dram fast timings to work on an Asus prime x570 Pro using 4x8 gb 3200 mhz b-die chips.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Aug 31, 2019)

Gigabyte released a "final" stable F5 UEFI for my board and I'm back to 3800MHz memory.


----------



## jesdals (Aug 31, 2019)

I could not boot with my usual settings on the new F5 bios - so is running on secondary bios with F5i unfortunately Gigabyte has pulled the bios from the download section - but if you have it - do save it


----------



## Chomiq (Sep 5, 2019)

F4 is out for X570 Aorus Elite:








						X570 AORUS ELITE (rev. 1.0) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global
					

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




					www.gigabyte.com


----------



## TheLostSwede (Sep 5, 2019)

And F6 for the Master.








						X570 AORUS MASTER (rev. 1.0) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global
					

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




					www.gigabyte.com


----------



## Chomiq (Sep 5, 2019)

I'll wait until 10th in case AGESA gets updated.


----------



## Nordic (Sep 5, 2019)

I have long been under the impression that gigabyte is a bad company to buy from. The speed of their bios releases seems fast to me. Is this just for their top end board?


----------



## TheLostSwede (Sep 5, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I have long been under the impression that gigabyte is a bad company to buy from. The speed of their bios releases seems fast to me. Is this just for their top end board?


Seems to be across the lot of the X570 boards at least.
Even their cheapest, cheapo board got the update today.








						X570 UD (rev. 1.0) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global
					

Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




					www.gigabyte.com
				




Not as much love for the 400-series chipsets, but they have AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB across the range of models at least.


----------



## jesdals (Sep 5, 2019)

Nordic said:


> I have long been under the impression that gigabyte is a bad company to buy from. The speed of their bios releases seems fast to me. Is this just for their top end board?


Well the new F6 for the Master work fine and by enabling xmp level 1, it gave me some better timings. 4 years ago I would not have chosen anything but Asus. But my old Skylake build took 3 returns of motherboards and newer gave me 100%. I also had a lot of friends experiencing the same. I think Asus make to many models (goes for other brands as Well)


----------



## Nordic (Sep 6, 2019)

I wish I could get email notifications for new bios updates.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 10, 2019)

Guys on Gigabyte boards: what is your droop looking like at full load (i.e. Linpack/P95)? On this 4.0 1.3V setting I'm running with Normal LLC, it apparently always peaks at 1.32V (usually when no load), then droops all the way down to 1.248V. 

I'm not sure if there was any difference between Auto and Normal LLC for me. I'm trying to figure out the minimum stable Vcore I need at 4.0/4.1/4.2, so the droop is getting in the way of me collecting some concrete numbers. 

Or is it more a board quality/design thing, and I'm just stuck with this much droop? I know that these IR3553 powirstages are good, but there still are only four phases for pushing 97W at this clock/volt, and still get to 75c pushing this thing at just 4.0, with side panel off and max fans.


----------



## EarthDog (Sep 10, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Guys on Gigabyte boards: what is your droop looking like at full load (i.e. Linpack/P95)? On this 4.0 1.3V setting I'm running with Normal LLC, it apparently always peaks at 1.32V (usually when no load), then droops all the way down to 1.248V.
> 
> I'm not sure if there was any difference between Auto and Normal LLC for me. I'm trying to figure out the minimum stable Vcore I need at 4.0/4.1/4.2, so the droop is getting in the way of me collecting some concrete numbers.
> 
> Or is it more a board quality/design thing, and I'm just stuck with this much droop? I know that these IR3553 powirstages are good, but there still are only four phases for pushing 97W at this clock/volt, and still get to 75c pushing this thing at just 4.0, with side panel off and max fans.


Use more aggressive LLC.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 10, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Use more aggressive LLC.



Geniuses at Gigabyte forgot to put in the drop down menu in this F42a BIOS, so all I knew was the field was editable but I had only thought of Normal, Auto and Standard.

All I could find on a search was dismissive posts claiming RTFM or PEBCAK, but it turns out it was Gigabyte that did an oopsie. My manual literally has no content or subheadings under the section explaining Advanced Voltage Control.

It's a 1-7 scale. 1 or 2 is Standard or Normal, can't remember if 0 means anything. 3 is Low, 4 is Medium, 5 is High, 6 is Turbo, 7 is Extreme, and 8 is Auto.

Also, do I look at the motherboard Vcore reading or the 3700X's CPU core voltage SVI2 TFN reading? The latter is 1.294 and doesn't fluctuate.

EDIT: whoops, both report droop.


----------



## biffzinker (Sep 10, 2019)

My Ryzen 5 3600 OC to the advertised boost of 4.2 GHz in Geekbench 5


Some of the Windows single core scores don't look to hot. 3600's not boosting to 4.2 GHz?






						Micro-Star International Co., Ltd MS-7C02  - Geekbench Browser
					

Benchmark results for a Micro-Star International Co., Ltd MS-7C02 with an AMD Ryzen 5 3600 processor.



					browser.geekbench.com
				









						Home  - Geekbench Browser
					

Geekbench measures your computer's processor and memory performance. Use the Geekbench Browser to share and discover Geekbench results with other people around the world.



					browser.geekbench.com


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 10, 2019)

Turns out the motherboard Vcore reading is pretty much useless. It's the same wide "stepped" readings all the time! The SVI2 seems to better reflect what the CPU is getting.

As opposed to 4.0/1.3V/Auto I'm currently testing 4.0/1.25V/Turbo. Auto droops to 1.237V (-0.063), current setting droops to 1.225V (-0.025). There may be room to drop Vcore further, I don't know. I'll save the higher clocks for when my U9S arrives this week, but so far the LLC work seems to be paying off. It's actually running cooler with these settings and cooling normally, as opposed to fans full blast, Auto LLC and side panel off.

Okay, this is crazy. I'm down to *4.0GHz* / 1.2V, with 16 thread P95 Smallest sustaining an effective *1.175V*. Two repetitions completed, no errors anywhere. My CPU temps are now below 77c with auto fan curves, and my VRMs are down to 68c. I may have been wrong about Ryzen 3000. This is absolutely delightful.

One thing I'm not wrong about, though, is the horrible firmware. I mean, my chip spends most of its time at 4.0GHz anyway when I leave everything on auto, since it can't last under higher boost. How is it "normal behaviour" to be pumping _1.4v of full load_ into a chip that doesn't even need 1.2V?? And they said it was "safe". I call bollocks on that AMD statement.

EDIT: found the tentative limit. With Turbo LLC, at 4.0GHz the floor is at 1.181V drooping down to 1.162V. For some reason, the lower you go, the more the BIOS wants to round up; if that's not enough, some of the Vcore settings share the same practical results (exact same max/min on SVI2 and Vcore). The result is a gaping hole between 1.181V and 1.16875V that I can't bridge, so this is the limit for now.


----------



## Chomiq (Sep 10, 2019)

It might be pumping 1.4 V or even 1.5 V peak but at what current.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 14, 2019)

Chomiq said:


> It might be pumping 1.4 V or even 1.5 V peak but at what current.



Dunno, honestly. My core current sensor isn't reading properly in HWInfo; it's greyed out and doesn't update when the CPU isn't under stress test.

I think I finally found what I'm looking for. CPB on, *PBO off, -0.1V offset* with just standard LLC.

It boosts to the usual 43.8x on the fastest core (7) while sustaining 40.3x across all cores in Prime95 Smallest.
It scales back gradually from 41x to 39.8x as the temps creep up, and the Vcore falls from 1.206V to 1.175V respectively, but I actually stayed under 75c, whereas the manual setting with lowest stable Vcore maxed at 78c.
I get about the same temperatures with slightly higher clocks if not a teeny bit better temps than the manual 4.0/1.192v/Turbo setting.
Pulling about the same Vcore according to SVI2 (1.206V at load). Seems stable. VIDs are still always higher than actual Vcore (~1.288V)
Idle is good. Roughly the same temps as idle under manual 4.0 and manual 4.1. No fan or temp spikes.
The best part: no unresponsive Explorer, and no WHEA errors. Feels just like a 4.0 manual clock, just faster and cooler. Also pleasant to be able to use P95 Smallest to test stability again, without it pulling a whopping 105W at 4.1 because manually setting the clocks counts as a manual overclock without power limits.

Should I even update to 1.0.0.3ABBA when it it comes out for my board? I was never concerned about not hitting boost clocks, I just wanted more reasonable behaviour, and it seems I got it by giving it a bit of offset.


----------



## Voltaj .45 ACP (Sep 14, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> Dunno, honestly. My core current sensor isn't reading properly in HWInfo; it's greyed out and doesn't update when the CPU isn't under stress test.
> 
> I think I finally found what I'm looking for. CPB on, *PBO off, -0.1V offset* with just standard LLC.
> 
> ...


you should it's very good bios.


----------



## the54thvoid (Sep 14, 2019)

Well, installed my 3700X into my X370 CH6 this morning. I'm getting rusty at hardware installation (or maybe just a bit carefree?) and it makes me nervous. Updated to latest AMD chipset, updated to BIOS version 7403, AGESA Combo 1.0.0.3. After a terrifying 2080ti not-detected moment (settled after a restart) system is up and running. Ran Prime 95, max heat test: hit 73 degrees fast but stayed put, all cores wobbling about 4.1-4.2Ghz. Ran Unigine to test the 2080ti wasn't borked and all was fine. The HWinfo pic below is from that Unigine run. All I've changed in BIOS is to switch to DOCP standard, so my RAM runs at 3200Mhz at 14 timings (spec I bought two years ago for my 1700X).





EDIT: though my gfx card now boots to full fan for a few seconds on start up now. Someone else had that issue. It's no biggie but it's odd how it does it now...


----------



## Roddey (Sep 14, 2019)




----------



## TheLostSwede (Sep 14, 2019)

Roddey said:


> View attachment 131890


99.8MHz bus speed again, try getting it to 100MHz for even CPU frequencies.
You seem to be boosting just fine otherwise, three cores at 4,600MHz.


----------



## Roddey (Sep 14, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> 99.8MHz bus speed again, try getting it to 100MHz for even CPU frequencies.
> You seem to be boosting just fine otherwise, three cores at 4,600MHz.


Ya I dont see anyway to change off 99.8 with the lower end Asus boards. I did get the ram to work at 3733 safe settings  with ABBA but fast was a no go. So I went back to 3600mhz.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Sep 14, 2019)

Roddey said:


> Ya I dont see anyway to change off 99.8 with the lower end Asus boards. I did get the ram to work at 3733 safe settings  with ABBA but fast was a no go. So I went back to 3600mhz.


See if this helps.








						AMD Agesa ABBA with Boost Clock Fix Tested on Ryzen 3900X
					

ASUS has also made available the Beta 1.0.0.3ABBA Bios, it is available over here: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/ultimative-am4-uefi-bios-agesa-ubersicht-12-09-19-a-1228903.html#2.7  There is a beta version 1001 for my ASUS Crosshair VIII WIFI there. I have Ryzen 3700x and memory is...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Roddey (Sep 14, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> See if this helps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I cant find *SB Clock Spread Spectrum* anywere in the prime x570 bios.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Sep 14, 2019)

Roddey said:


> I cant find *SB Clock Spread Spectrum* anywere in the prime x570 bios.



Not from your board though. Only picture I could find.
Maybe ask the other guy?


----------



## Roddey (Sep 14, 2019)

TheLostSwede said:


> Not from your board though. Only picture I could find.
> Maybe ask the other guy?


That option is not in the bios. There is a lot of settings I cant access.



Roddey said:


> That option is not in the bios. There is a lot of settings I cant access.


Well the ABBA(non-beta) bios is out for Asus. Just installed it.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Sep 14, 2019)

Roddey said:


> That option is not in the bios. There is a lot of settings I cant access.


I guess you're going to have to talk to Asus' support then. Not much more I can do to help.
Regardless, you're getting the correct boost speeds, just minus a few MHz because of the bus speed.


----------



## Roddey (Sep 14, 2019)

I read somewhere that Asus left some options out of these boards. Gotta go spend more money if I want them, which I refuse to pay more than 250 for a motherboard. Got to draw a line somewhere.


----------



## HD64G (Sep 14, 2019)

Keep what you have which is great. 0.02% less boost clocks than the perfect is already there. Most boards nowadays have less than 100MHz on the basic clock just for safety reasons due to the SATA and storage data corruption danger if surpassing that limit. Doesn't always happens but...


----------



## Hellfire (Sep 15, 2019)

So testing around tonight,

4400 took 1.45 volts to stable, temps stayed low due to the water loop,




however, 4375 only takes 1.3 and is stable, temps stayed low again and barely anything in the cinebench scores.



This is on an Asus board without any new bios, not sure if bios will help but 1.45v to get 4400 seems very high to me


----------



## Roddey (Sep 15, 2019)

Hellfire said:


> So testing around tonight,
> 
> 4400 took 1.45 volts to stable, temps stayed low due to the water loop,
> View attachment 131929
> ...


The new ABBA bios gives me this on temps and voltage for a 3800x while running Cinebench 15.  Better than the first bios for temps and voltage.


----------



## HD64G (Sep 15, 2019)

So, the ABBA version agesa might be able to intervene with the auto UEFI settings for voltage and XFR and solve the trivial that some boards were doing with the vcore and clocks.


----------



## Roddey (Sep 15, 2019)

HD64G said:


> So, the ABBA version agesa might be able to intervene with the auto UEFI settings for voltage and XFR and solve the trivial that some boards were doing with the vcore and clocks.


Sorry, I dont know how it works, just see results. But I am maintaining a higher sustained clock than the old agesa's would. I made a video showing the sustained clocks and voltage in a userbenchmark test. I noticed that in hwinfo I am getting to 1.488 volts at max boost. Different results than Ryzen Master. 







.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 15, 2019)

Roddey said:


> Sorry, I dont know how it works, just see results. But I am maintaining a higher sustained clock than the old agesa's would. I made a video showing the sustained clocks and voltage in a userbenchmark test. I noticed that in hwinfo I am getting to 1.488 volts at max boost but just for a short time
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Max boost =! Max load. A core can be at 4.4GHz 1.4v as much as it wants, it won't mean much as it's not being loaded to 100%. When the stress test begins and seems to "catch" the CPU in its 1.488v low load state, it's more because of HWInfo's update interval. Zen 2 has a reaction time of 1-2ms.

Also, HWInfo, like every other software save for Ryzen Master, updates too slow to accurately reflect what Ryzen is doing on voltage.

You can still use offset to drop voltage if you want; it applies the offset broadly regardless of boost, activity or load. So at idle, you drop from 1.5v to 1.45v, at load from 1.3v to 1.25v, for example. The benefits that you will perceive come from the load Vcore reduction, not the idle drop.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 26, 2019)

Okay, just updated to the F42c BIOS that has 1.0.0.3ABBA. Running the same PBO off, -0.075V as on F42a, and idle seems slightly more stable. CPU-Z is not benching single-core properly because the loaded core only runs the bench at x42.8 while said core can clearly hit x44 (the fastest core went from x43.5 to x44, and three other cores are now hitting x43.8 max).

One problem though, Ryzen Master and HWInfo are reporting different temperatures. This is really annoying. I trust Ryzen Master due to its update interval but HWInfo gives me a better idea of max/min and shows me whether WHEA errors are popping up. And this is on the new 6.12 release of HWInfo too. And the histogram issue on Ryzen Master remains, where if you want to use the histogram, Ryzen Master will keep one core at 4.2GHz at all times so your idle temps can't be lower than 45c. And it'll stay that way until you turn off histogram.


----------



## X800 (Sep 29, 2019)

So asus did let the new bios come to TUF B450-PRO GAMING BIOS 1820 Update AGESA 1.0.0.3ABBA .This broke the everything it did blue screen for 10 different things. I did clear cmos  and loaded default still blue screens. I did have go back 2 bios versions now everything is back to normal.


----------

