# Miners run their own power plant



## Jetster (Oct 17, 2021)

Mining on a whole new level

Bitcoin-mining power plant raises ire of environmentalists | KATU

Greenidge Generation Holdings Inc.


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## P4-630 (Oct 17, 2021)

Here's the link without the FB click id:








						Bitcoin-mining power plant raises ire of environmentalists
					

An obstacle to large-scale bitcoin mining is finding enough cheap energy to run the huge, power-gobbling computer arrays that create and transact cryptocurrency. One mining operation in central New York came up with a novel solution that has alarmed environmentalists. It uses its own power plant.




					katu.com


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## R-T-B (Oct 17, 2021)

We've been over this like 12 times now.

a.) The powerplant wasn't closing, it is only being run at full capacity because it was not economical anymore to run the plant at "half mast" for the town in which it operates (The plant also operates way less efficiently at low capacity.) The excess "full power" capacity is then used for mining.

b.) It's been happening for months if not planned for nearly a year:  https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-n...uel-firms-alarming-environmentalists-n1280060

c.) as a counter argument, the largest solar project in the North America  is currently funded by and for bitcoin.









						California-based Mining Company to Build Largest Solar Powered Farm in North America - MinerUpdate
					

California-based Plouton Mining is planning to build North America’s largest solar-powered bitcoin mining farm in Western Mojave. The site will be fitted with 49 acres of solar panels estimated to generate 10-13 megawatts of electricity daily. The remaining electricity is planned to be secured...




					www.minerupdate.com
				




tl;dr:  Not great, but not as bad as pundits will make it out to be either.


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## P4-630 (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> c.) as a counter argument, the largest solar project in the North America is currently funded by and for bitcoin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's just crazy!!......


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 17, 2021)

Well now we know where all the video cards have gone

Plant opponents suspect Greenidge of pulling a bait-and-switch, applying to run a power plant but planning to run a mining operation that is taking up more of the plant's power.

Greenidge says mining was not part of the plan when the plant came back online and note they continue to provide power to the grid. From January through June, Greenidge said it used 58% of its power for mining.

Dodgy bastards


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## TheEndIsNear (Oct 17, 2021)

I was trying to get the plant I work at to do it.  1600 Megawatts would power a lot of cards lol.



Tigger said:


> Well now we know where all the video cards have gone


That is one of my favorite shows of all time.  We used to watch it on the bbc channel here in the U.S.


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## P4-630 (Oct 17, 2021)

They could have powered a lot of homes/hospitals and what not with it instead....

Dumb cryptomining! Greed..


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## R-T-B (Oct 17, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> They could have powered a lot of homes/hospitals and what not with it instead....


Read my post.  They were, and still are.


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## cst1992 (Oct 17, 2021)

My hatred for crypto just went on a whole new level.


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## R-T-B (Oct 17, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> That's just crazy!!......


Hey, it's not like our governments been building green energy.  I say let the miners do it.  At least some of it will go to consumers vs none with our current plan.


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## cst1992 (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Read my post.  They were, and still are.


That is not the issue here. The issue is that this thing is like a cancerous growth. Would you allow a tumor to grow in your body because "well, other organs are also getting their energy"?


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 17, 2021)

They're making a shit ton of money mining, but at least they are providing "some" electricity to the community.

They made 43 million in 3mths, nice, not greedy at all /s


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## Shrek (Oct 17, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> That's just crazy!!......



How so? They are sponsoring their own solar power, not using fossil fuels and helping with the economies of scale. If we disapprove this, will we not be advocating for something much less benign?


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## cst1992 (Oct 17, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> They could have powered a lot of homes/hospitals and what not with it instead....


Even if not, put it towards something more useful.
What is crypto, really? Just making more money from money. Reminds me of the dot-com bubble of the 20th century.


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## trog100 (Oct 17, 2021)

the haters are gonna hate.. he..he..

trog


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## R-T-B (Oct 17, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> That is not the issue here. The issue is that this thing is like a cancerous growth. Would you allow a tumor to grow in your body because "well, other organs are also getting their energy"?


If it built positive facilities like the green energy plant I linked?  Say maybe faught disease or something for analogy sake?

Dunno.  I mean it's still a tumor with it's own ugly side effects.  Like all things it's a cost evaluation.  I just know it's not as black and white as people think.


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## erocker (Oct 17, 2021)

I wonder if there's just a shortcut where I can just burn pollutants in exchange for money?


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## R-T-B (Oct 17, 2021)

erocker said:


> I wonder if there's just a shortcut where I can just burn pollutants in exchange for money?


Yes, it's called selling the electricity directly as the plant was already doing.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 17, 2021)

It's what happens to the 43 million every 3 mths i'd like to know.


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## cst1992 (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> If it built positive facilities like the green energy plant I linked?  Say maybe fought disease or something for analogy sake?
> 
> Dunno. Like all things it's a cost evaluation.  I just know it's not as black and white as people think.


A tumor is never a positive thing. No matter how small; it's just a parasite. And worse than that, it spreads.



trog100 said:


> the haters are gonna hate.. he..he..


I hate you.


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## Vayra86 (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> We've been over this like 12 times now.
> 
> a.) The powerplant wasn't closing, it is only being run at full capacity because it was not economical anymore to run the plant at "half mast" for the town in which it operates (The plant also operates way less efficiently at low capacity.) The excess "full power" capacity is then used for mining.
> 
> ...



How is C a counter argument? Solar is not free to produce and if its not even delivering power to supply a need in the usual demand, its all the more wasteful.

A is also not even an argument. 'Not economical anymore' is the whole idea of it, we're trying to move the economy past coal.

TL DR its probably even worse than you might think.



R-T-B said:


> If it built positive facilities like the green energy plant I linked?  Say maybe faught disease or something for analogy sake?
> 
> Dunno.  I mean it's still a tumor with it's own ugly side effects.  Like all things it's a cost evaluation.  I just know it's not as black and white as people think.



Its just pure cancer. Name one good thing about it. Decentralized finance? Dream on. The blockchain is already useful without crypto. World peace aint happening either, because the planet's gone by then.

The construction of a solar plant is not by definition a 'positive facility'. Any construction isn't, even, unless it serves a _net reduction._ This solar farm is _additional _use of resources.


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## R-T-B (Oct 17, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> A tumor is never a positive thing. No matter how small; it's just a parasite. And worse than that, it spreads.


So establish it's a tumor.  I don't see that.  I mean they are literally doing more green energy projects than any other player right now.

This is a really weird analogy.



Vayra86 said:


> How is C a counter argument? Solar is not free to produce and if its not even delivering power to supply a need in the usual demand, its all the more wasteful.


Because if you read the article some of it does go to consumers.  There is almost no permit issued where that is not the case.  It's usually greater than 25%.



Vayra86 said:


> Name one good thing about it.


I have.  And I'm hardly a Proof Of Work optimist but I do not share your negative view of cryptos potential at all.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Hey, it's not like our governments been building green energy. I say let the miners do it. At least some of it will go to consumers vs none with our current plan.


You are a miner, and would love to do whatever to benefit, we get it....

No need to replay to anyone who thinks otherwise


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> So establish it's a tumor.  I don't see that.  I mean they are literally doing more green energy projects than any other player right now.
> 
> This is a really weird analogy.
> 
> ...



surely its about them making money from mining, the other shit is just so they can justify the mining, which is making pots of money.


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## R-T-B (Oct 17, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> You are a miner


Not really.  I barely mine at all anymore.  I do it on a screensaver similar to BOINC.  I am a computer user first and foremost.

I really might give up mining alltogether this month, but it does provide a nice supplement to my steam games budget.  I keep coming back to that.


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## Vayra86 (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I have.  And I'm hardly a Proof Of Work optimist but I do not share your negative view of cryptos potential at all.


No, you really haven't. Don't fool yourself. But we can agree to disagree.

Let's just say you've had a crypto epiphany before. I hope you'll soon have another one.


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## cst1992 (Oct 17, 2021)

Tigger said:


> surely its about them making money from mining, the other shit is just so they can justify the mining, which is making pots of money.


The problem is that the mining makes more money from a given amount of electricity than selling the same amount to consumers(if not, then using it for this purpose doesn't make much sense). If so, what happens when more and more of the capacity is being used for mining? Like I said, the tumor spreads.


Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> You are a miner, and would love to do whatever to benefit, we get it....


I don't think that is relevant here.


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## Tomgang (Oct 17, 2021)

Crypto sucks, I have never hidden my feelings about crypto. I hate it down to the bone.

Now my statements are how I feel and I have not read the article.

1. It's one of reasons why we gamer can't have a nice gpu. Miners are gulping up way to many. But miners and farms are not the sole reason either.

2. All this gpu crunching also cause a huge power consumption and the pollution that comes with it. In these times with climate changes and energy shortages. Crypto mining is the last thing we need to make it even worse. Just because some greedy fools thinking of them self to make some easy cash. But while they make money, others are suffering from it. People suffers higher power bill, black outs in some countries and it will probably be worse later this winter l. Mother nature get more pollution to deal with and as a gamer. It's litterly frustrating to watch miners having hundreds of cards while I can barely afford and get just a single proper gpu. Furthermore, electricity to power mining farms is not a necessity. However it is a necessity with electricity for the world to work. For some it's even a matter of life and death.

Yes I hate mining, crypto and all that comes with it.


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## R-T-B (Oct 17, 2021)

Vayra86 said:


> No, you really haven't. Don't fool yourself. But we can agree to disagree.


Indeed.  If you don't see that as evidence I truly cannot help you.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Not really.  I barely mine at all anymore.  I do it on a screensaver similar to BOINC.  I am a computer user first and foremostm


Then leave this thread, you making arguments for this absurdly wasteful of resource for mere benefits ought to make people even more angrier, i sure am


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 17, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> more and more of the capacity is being used for mining?



Which it will, greed grows greed.


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## Vayra86 (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Indeed.  If you don't see that as evidence I truly cannot help you.


The economical idea of 'more better' is over, that's what I see. More is oblivion going forward, because internet spreads more faster than the plague.

Restraint is the new keyword and less the new direction. Sooner or later and I reckon in our lifetime. For many things its soon a new economical reality too. GPUs ...

You can thank crypto for accelerating the process.


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## erocker (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Indeed.  If you don't see that as evidence I truly cannot help you.


I don't really think anyone wants your help here. We get your stance.


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## R-T-B (Oct 17, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> The problem is that the mining makes more money from a given amount of electricity than selling the same amount to consumers(if not, then using it for this purpose doesn't make much sense). If so, what happens when more and more of the capacity is being used for mining? Like I said, the tumor spreads.


I see.  I can agree proof of work does have a constant growth "sink or swim" property that emulates cancer to an extent.  But so does any business.  What matters is what the tumor or businesd builds.  Is it something we can use or garbage?  That's what seperates cancer from noncancerous growth, and we can certainly use these green energy projects long after Proof Of Work dies, as it eventually must.


Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Then leave this thread, you making arguments for this absurdly wasteful of resource for mere benefits ought to make people even more angrier, i sure am


Nope.


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## cst1992 (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> long after Proof Of Work dies


Sorry, not good enough. How long are you willing to wait? 50 years? I'm not.
We don't have a lot of time. Climate change is real, and it's exponential. It's happening TODAY, and it's only going to get worse.
For me, every kilowatt hour of electricity that goes into this is a total waste. If you have excess electricity, sell it to the grid. I'm sure if microgrids can do it, so can plants like this.


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## R-T-B (Oct 17, 2021)

Vayra86 said:


> The economical idea of 'more better' is over, that's what I see. More is oblivion going forward, because internet spreads more faster than the plague.
> 
> Restraint is the new keyword and less the new direction. Sooner or later and I reckon in our lifetime. For many things its soon a new economical reality too. GPUs ...
> 
> You can thank crypto for accelerating the process.


So I can thank bitcoin for ending consumerism?

Damn.


erocker said:


> I don't really think anyone wants your help here. We get your stance.


I still state it because facts matter and a lot of them get lost in hate fests like this.  I am no fan of the current situation either.  But I like a balanced view.  I really think you all have me pegged as something that I don't even represent.



cst1992 said:


> How long are you willing to wait? 50 years?


More like 2.  Ethereum is supposed to exit this year.  I'd not give them more than double that.

Bitcoin is a different animal.  I don't know when it will exit and honestly would not care if it just up and died, other than the finance carnage it would cause.


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## cst1992 (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I really think you all have me pegged as something that I don't even represent.


I agree with this. That is unwarranted. Let's not attack a person; rather attack the issue.



R-T-B said:


> More like 2. Ethereum is supposed to exit this year. I'd not give them more than double that



A single cryptocurrency is not the problem. The problem is that more and more of them are popping up and even governments are getting up to minting their own digital currencies. Why? It's just a misappropriation of resources.


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## Vayra86 (Oct 17, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Then leave this thread, you making arguments for this absurdly wasteful of resource for mere benefits ought to make people even more angrier, i sure am


All voices are relevant. Don't blame the person, blame the system and move your anger there.

Its the difficult but right thing to do. And it also requires some reflection on ourselves, most of the time.



R-T-B said:


> I see.  I can agree proof of work does have a constant growth "sink or swim" property that emulates cancer to an extent.  But so does any business.  What matters is what the tumor or businesd builds.  Is it something we can use or garbage?  That's what seperates cancer from noncancerous growth, and we can certainly use these green energy projects long after Proof Of Work dies, as it eventually must.


This is also true and the point I make above.


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## cst1992 (Oct 17, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Bitcoin is a different animal. I don't know when it will exit and honestly would not care if it just up and died, other than the finance carnage it would cause.


Bitcoin being a currency makes no sense to me, apart from obviously pioneering the concept "mint your own money". It should never have become a currency, and now it's too successful to die.

It's like meth. It should never have been invented or manufactured, but now that it has, it'll be very difficult to wipe out.


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## R-T-B (Oct 17, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> A single cryptocurrency is not the problem. The problem is that more and more of them are popping up and even governments are getting up to minting their own digital currencies. Why? It's just a misappropriation of resources.


Almost all altcoins are based on ethereum.


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## xtreemchaos (Oct 17, 2021)

im just going to say it makes me feel sad.


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## ShiBDiB (Oct 17, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Then leave this thread, you making arguments for this absurdly wasteful of resource for mere benefits ought to make people even more angrier, i sure am



You're in the part of the of the forum dedicated to discussing mining and crypto.. maybe you should leave


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## hat (Oct 18, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Then leave this thread, you making arguments for this absurdly wasteful of resource for mere benefits ought to make people even more angrier, i sure am


Well, that's a little on the crazy side. You don't like what he has to say so you just want him to leave? 

I think the level of hostility in this thread is getting a little too high, and anybody with eyes can tell which side it's coming from. It's sad, really.


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## 95Viper (Oct 18, 2021)

Stay on topic.
Discuss the topic, not other members.
And, be nice in your postings... you may debate opinions; but do not carry it to violations of the guidelines/rules.
If you have a problem report it, as, have some members... don't be telling someone to leave the thread; because you did not like what was posted.
You have an ignore feature, use it.
Now, be civil and carry on.


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## glsn (Oct 18, 2021)

I wonder why nuclear is not that used...

it provides tons of energy, and overall is safer that fossil fuels...


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## R-T-B (Oct 18, 2021)

glsn said:


> I wonder why nuclear is not that used...
> 
> it provides tons of energy, and overall is safer that fossil fuels...


I believe there is some nuclear plants being eyeballed re dealmaking, but no new constructions solely for crypto.  Mostly due to the absurd expense and permitting to build one vs other technology.


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## glsn (Oct 18, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I believe there is some nuclear plants being eyeballed, but no new constructions solely for crypto.  Mostly due to the absurd expense and permitting to build one vs other technology.


I mean why overall are they less used, including cryptos and not

anyway @cst1992 the grid pays you like shit, it's more worth to use it to mine; besides such energy will going to waste anyway
it's all talk, nobody will do a shit imo


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 18, 2021)

Nuclear is the ultimate clean power source, pretty safe too as long as it's not mismanaged.


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## trog100 (Oct 18, 2021)

forgetting crypto mining.. imagine a world where energy is in short supply and goes to the highest bidder... he who can pay the most gets it..

the push for green seems to be creating such a world.. here in the UK we are being told to expect large energy price increases coming soon..

europe buys gas from russia.. asia is prepared to pay more for its energy from russia than europe.. asia gets the russian gas europe dosnt..

crypto mining is bugger all in the grand scheme of energy usage..  it gets hate on here because of gpu shortages no other reason..

the key word here seems to be "shortage"..

trog

ps.. as for energy wastage.. i cant think of a better example than high power 4K gaming.. he he


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## mclaren85 (Oct 18, 2021)

This is insane. Someone has to stop these bullshit.
Us govt should storm this place like China did.


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## sepheronx (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Well now we know where all the video cards have gone
> 
> Plant opponents suspect Greenidge of pulling a bait-and-switch, applying to run a power plant but planning to run a mining operation that is taking up more of the plant's power.
> 
> ...


judging by first picture, it looks like ASIC Miners and not GPU's.



R-T-B said:


> I believe there is some nuclear plants being eyeballed re dealmaking, but no new constructions solely for crypto.  Mostly due to the absurd expense and permitting to build one vs other technology.



it would be stupid expensive to build since it would have to be small specialized ones since Westinghouse is gone.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Oct 18, 2021)

I wonder how much hate there would be if those cards were folding or SETI project processing. I highly doubt attitudes would be the same. All this hate just shows where the horse blinders are pointing towards.



trog100 said:


> it gets hate on here because of gpu shortages no other reason..


I have to agree with this, I humbled by being able to buy a 1080 right before the scalping started so I dont let my frustration get out of hand.

The argument for climate change caused by mining is like a silly ferris wheel. There are other more relevant reasons for climate change, oil and gas, I still havent seen any proof mining is contributing significantly to climate change, I know there is some but hard to say with all the embellishment happening these days.


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## trog100 (Oct 18, 2021)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> I wonder how much hate there would be if those cards were folding or SETI project processing. I highly doubt attitudes would be the same. All this hate just shows where the horse blinders are pointing towards.
> 
> 
> I have to agree with this, I humbled by being able to buy a 1080 right before the scalping started so I dont let my frustration get out of hand.
> ...



the hate would still be there... its a purely a selfish hate and it feeds itself.. people not being able to buy what they want or having to pay more for it.. crypto ming or folding it wouldnt matter.. 

the other hate factor is people who have missed out on crypto resenting those that havnt.. hence my earlier comment.. the haters are gonna hate.. why mr frog wastes his time attempting to enter rational debate with them i havnt a clue..

what makes it worse is the fact that most of the haters main dream in life would be to own and run a high powered power guzzling multi monitored 4K gaming machine.. he he

trog


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## looniam (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Nuclear is the ultimate clean power source, pretty safe too as long as it's not mismanaged.


wut? sorry hydro and wind doesn't leave a radioactive taste in the mouth.
don't get me wrong, having navel engineering experience nuc powered sub and ships are great but there are cleaner options on land.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 18, 2021)

looniam said:


> wut? sorry hydro and wind doesn't leave a radioactive taste in the mouth.
> don't get me wrong, having navel engineering experience nuc powered sub and ships are great but there are cleaner options on land.


How does it leave a radioactive taste in the mouth? 20% of power in the us is nuclear. Try reading this maybe, nuclear is as clean as solar and wind generation.
https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/infographic-how-much-power-does-nuclear-reactor-produce
https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/nuclear-power-most-reliable-energy-source-and-its-not-even-close

Cleaner options that would not generate any where near what nuclear can.

Explain how nuclear is dirty, smoke pollution, nope, waste left behind, maybe, but when was the last time you heard of problems with nuclear waste? 

So when did you last have a nuclear taste in your mouth then, that'll be never.


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## P4-630 (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Cleaner options that would not generate any where near what nuclear can.



Until something goes wrong....


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 18, 2021)

P4-630 said:


> Until something goes wrong....



Which is very rare, chernobyl was mismanagement, and fukishima was an unfortunate accident. Now name me the multitude of other nuclear problems? Do you realise how many nuclear staitions there are just in the US all running for decades with zero problems.

And not forgetting nuclear is carbon free


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## looniam (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> How does it leave a radioactive taste in the mouth? 20% of power in the us is nuclear. Try reading this maybe, nuclear is as clean as solar and wind generation.
> https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/infographic-how-much-power-does-nuclear-reactor-produce
> https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/nuclear-power-most-reliable-energy-source-and-its-not-even-close
> 
> ...


i guess from your post you have no idea of the radioactive waste thats produced.




__





						Backgrounder on Radioactive Waste
					






					www.nrc.gov
				



there is only approved  temporary storage of 40 years. waste is still radioactive for 1,000 to 10,00 years. .

wind/hydro has no like issues . . .


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 18, 2021)

looniam said:


> i guess from your post you have no idea of the radioactive waste thats produced.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As i said when was the last time you heard of a problem with nuclear waste, guess you never read my post either stating i have no idea of waste produced. 

Unless we can build tens of thousands of wind turbines, and currently non existant wave generators now, lol at using wind to power even 10% of our needs.


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## looniam (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> As i said when was the last time you heard of a problem with nuclear waste, guess you never read my post either stating i have no idea of waste produced.
> 
> Unless we can build tens of thousands of wind turbines, and currently non existant wave generators now, lol at using wind to power even 10% of our needs.


there is a problem with nuclear waste whenever you have nuclear waste - that is how bad it is; don't minimize it. its absolutely nothing to take  lightly. now if you're just gonna read NRC's PR then there isn't much to work with but the truth is the can get kicked down the road when dealing w/waste.

and fwiw, there are three nuc power plants in the state i live in. all three are for sale being money pits and have never been fully operational in 30+ years . . .
edit: and i'll remind you, the issues is how clean nuc power is, not how much energy it provides, goal posts, yua know.


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## sepheronx (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Which is very rare, chernobyl was mismanagement, and fukishima was an unfortunate accident. Now name me the multitude of other nuclear problems? Do you realise how many nuclear staitions there are just in the US all running for decades with zero problems.
> 
> And not forgetting nuclear is carbon free


Three Mile Island springs to mind.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 18, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Three Mile Island springs to mind.



Out of the hundreds of nuclear plants around the world that have been running since probably the 1950's, how many accidents? 20, 30, 40?



looniam said:


> there is a problem with nuclear waste whenever you have nuclear waste - that is how bad it is; don't minimize it. its absolutely nothing to take  lightly. now if you're just gonna read NRC's PR then there isn't much to work with but the truth is the can get kicked down the road when dealing w/waste.
> 
> and fwiw, there are three nuc power plants in the state i live in. all three are for sale being money pits and have never been fully operational in 30+ years . . .
> edit: and i'll remind you, the issues is how clean nuc power is, not how much energy it provides, goal posts, yua know.



And how many coal fired stations are there in the US pumping crap into the attmosphere, that are not for sale, and are still producing waste?

It's  246 operational *coal-fired power stations* in the *United States*. btw


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## sepheronx (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Out of the hundreds of nuclear plants around the world that have been running since probably the 1950's, how many accidents? 20, 30, 40?



Probably less.

Honestly, I am all for nuclear power.  I have a friend who works for the nuclear organization here in Canada in Sudbury Ontario.  He has knowledge of all kind of nuclear tech from all around the world and essentially they all use these fail safe features (this was actually designed after Chernobyl in Russia and outside) where if there is any issue, the reactor is disabled and the rods are then dumped in the water.  It was recently used to full effect when a transformer at a Russian NPP recently failed and it just jumps in to do its job.  We have same thing (Canadian designed) in our Nuclear plants (all two of them lol).

What I am saying is that its much safer to use now than ever before.


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## looniam (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> And how many coal fired stations are there in the US pumping crap into the attmosphere, that are not for sale, and are still producing waste?


i don't know nor do i care.

since that has nothing to do with nuclear waste i take it our discussion is over.

take care.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 18, 2021)

looniam said:


> i don't know nor do i care.
> 
> since that has nothing to do with nuclear waste i take it our discussion is over.
> 
> take care.


"nor do i care" you care enough about nuclear waste though.
Whatever you say



sepheronx said:


> Probably less.
> 
> Honestly, I am all for nuclear power.  I have a friend who works for the nuclear organization here in Canada in Sudbury Ontario.  He has knowledge of all kind of nuclear tech from all around the world and essentially they all use these fail safe features (this was actually designed after Chernobyl in Russia and outside) where if there is any issue, the reactor is disabled and the rods are then dumped in the water.  It was recently used to full effect when a transformer at a Russian NPP recently failed and it just jumps in to do its job.  We have same thing (Canadian designed) in our Nuclear plants (all two of them lol).
> 
> What I am saying is that its much safer to use now than ever before.



And cleaner, one of the cleanest forms of power generation, though some bleat about waste though. I think waste management from these stations is pretty well managed these days. As i said, i have not heard of any problems caused by nuclear waste that i can remember, or seen on the news. We need to use it more, along with other clean forms like wind etc, and get rid of the polluting stations.


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## looniam (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> And cleaner, one of the cleanest forms of power generation, though some bleat about waste though. I think waste management from these stations is pretty well managed these days. As i said, i have not heard of any problems caused by nuclear waste that i can remember, or seen on the news. We need to use it more, along with other clean forms like wind etc, and get rid of the polluting stations.


i can help!








						39-year battle to remove 86,000 metric tons of nuclear waste continues, with no end in sight
					

Radioactive waste sits at San Onofre and dozens of other nuclear power plants in 33 states, waiting for a move to a temporary repository.




					www.ocregister.com
				











						Nuclear power is not a good option for Kentucky. Radioactive waste is still a problem
					

The major knock against nuclear power is what happens before electrical generation and after electrical generation. Kentucky has experience with both.



					www.courier-journal.com
				











						Nuke panel gets update on radioactive waste issues
					

Despite financial difficulties facing a NorthStar affiliate company in Texas, officials say there will be space in the low-level radioactive waste facility for all of the waste and debris from




					www.benningtonbanner.com
				




as i said there are plants for sale where i'm at - if they don't get sold, cleaning up will be a major problem!








						Public meeting about ownership change for Palisades nuclear plant comes this week
					

This week, federal regulators will hold a public meeting to discuss plans to transfer the operating license for the Palisades nuclear power plant. Entergy…




					www.michiganradio.org
				




some of this is happening in my own backyard, its a problem. how many nuc plants in your neighborhood?


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## Shrek (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Which is very rare, chernobyl was mismanagement



I believe it was also a design issue with graphite ends to the fuel rods; i.e. an emergency shutdown lead to runaway.


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## R0H1T (Oct 18, 2021)

erocker said:


> I wonder if there's just a shortcut where I can just* burn pollutants in exchange for money*?


Just replace pollutants with *politicians* & we have a season (or two) of this


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 18, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> I believe it was a design issue with graphite end to the fuel rods; i.e. an emergency shutdown lead to runaway.



Not forgetting, they never informed the change of shift night staff of the intended test, and the night manager insisting the test carry on, when they already had problems, ie the power lvl dropping to dangerous levels meaning 24 hours to get it back to normal.



looniam said:


> i can help!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



there is one about 40 miles away, still running as far as i know. But then there aren't 94 in my country. Funny how them waste problems are all in your country. Maybe there needs to be some sort of kick up the arse for whoever is managing it. With 94 plants, you would think they would have got the waste management system pretty sorted, but i guess not. Also waste management is not the fault of nuclear power per se, it is the fault of whoever is managing the system.


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## cst1992 (Oct 18, 2021)

There's no one type of nuclear power. I, for one, am waiting for thorium-powered reactors. They'll be much cleaner than "conventional" uranium-powered nuclear reactors.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 18, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> There's no one type of nuclear power. I, for one, am waiting for thorium-powered reactors. They'll be much cleaner than "conventional" uranium-powered nuclear reactors.



Basically, nuclear is cleaner than any type burning fossil fuel, be it coal, gas or oil, and weight for weight can generate far more clean electricity from the fuel than fossil types. 

How far from thorium generation? what is the waste product?


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## looniam (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> there is one about 40 miles away, still running as far as i know. But then there aren't 94 in my country. Funny how them waste problems are all in your country. Maybe there needs to be some sort of kick up the arse for whoever is managing it. With 94 plants, you would think they would have got the waste management system pretty sorted, but i guess not. Also waste management is not the fault of nuclear power per se, it is the fault of whoever is managing the system.


oh, it's a country issue? 94 plants all operated by different companies in a private industry will not allow continuity.  i guess you didn't read those articles. btw, do you really think china is forthcoming with any issues they've had? if so, i got a bridge to sell you.  

sift the blame all you want but it doesn't make the problem go away now does it?


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## Deleted member 24505 (Oct 18, 2021)

looniam said:


> oh, it's a country issue? 94 plants all operated by different companies in a private industry will not allow continuity.  i guess you didn't read those articles. btw, do you really think china is forthcoming with any issues they've had? if so, i got a bridge to sell you.
> 
> sift the blame all you want but it doesn't make the problem go away now does it?



neither does bleating about it. I won't comment on this again, maybe you will find someone else to bleat at.


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## looniam (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> neither does bleating about it. I won't comment on this again, maybe you will find someone else to bleat at.


no, something tells me you'll still stubborning keep denying that nuclear waste is an issue. go ahead and live in your world on that little island country w/a few nuc plants  - that you pay over 2BN pounds annually in taxes for nuclear waste disposal and think the world is fine . .

fun fact:
there are 64 different countries in this world that have national holidays, on different days, celebrating the same thing:
independence from england.

cheerio mate!


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## Shrek (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Not forgetting, they never informed the change of shift night staff of the intended test, and the night manager insisting the test carry on, when they already had problems, ie the power lvl dropping to dangerous levels meaning 24 hours to get it back to normal.



Absolutely, it was also a management issue; but if designed right it would have shut down without an explosion.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 18, 2021)

cst1992 said:


> That is not the issue here. The issue is that this thing is like a cancerous growth. Would you allow a tumor to grow in your body because "well, other organs are also getting their energy"?


The comedy of such short sighted post's.

So the fiat system of hundreds of counties setting up and creating physical printed money, the massive networked computational backend, armed diesel guzling vehicles to move it round etc etc and exchanges, IS WORSE imho, we could control the emission of one plant how many armered cash trucks are there, in the UK you often have a cop car following too.

Fiat£#g delusional, the present way sucks environmental ass toooo.


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## TheUn4seen (Oct 18, 2021)

This thread is hilarious, it's like reading Luddite fanatical ramblings again. Or the anti-lift lobby. Or this, just as electricity was introduced to the cities:




The arguments are of the same quality, "hurr-durr, me no understand, me no likey". Do you want to be a touchy, virtue signalling hippie? Start sweating like a pig and go to war with air conditioning, it uses several times the power crypto mining does. In fact, according to IEA, there are around ten new household AC units being sold every second and it will remain one of the biggest drivers behind global electricity usage increase for the next 30 years. Crypto mining barely even registers on the global scale (around half a percent if memory serves me well)
I know some of you are butthurt because you missed your chance to earn money on cryptocurrencies, I get it. I sold several dozen Bitcoin when they reached ~300USD and it was the worst financial decision I made in my entire life. Don't take your frustration out on everyone though.









						Air conditioning use emerges as one of the key drivers of global electricity-demand growth - News - IEA
					

Air conditioning use emerges as one of the key drivers of global electricity-demand growth - News from the International Energy Agency




					www.iea.org


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## seth1911 (Oct 18, 2021)

A Coal Power Plant for mining BTC, but i think its a scam even the Plant got delivered by Trucks with Coal nah no reason that makes no sense its to expensive.

Look on the Railtracks they are cut off 


They use a dead Coal Plant with normal Electricitiy connection to make adversiting


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## Shrek (Oct 18, 2021)

I think it runs on natural gas.


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## TheEndIsNear (Oct 18, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Nuclear is the ultimate clean power source, pretty safe too as long as it's not mismanaged.


Not even close.  I worked at one.  I'd rather have carbon in the air than Nuclear waste around for 1,000's of years.  The design was made this way to produce nuclear weapon fuel.  The were working on making a molten salt reactor that can never melt down but the DOD took away all funding and boom we got these ticking time bombs instead.  I live 10 miles from the oldest reactor in the U.S.  My dad worked a ton out on the reactors and turbines there and he says it's a ticking time bomb.  He even moved lol.  It's older than I am and I'm 50.  Anything this dangerous that needs constant cooling water is probably the stupidest design they could've gone with. I worked in the power industry most of my life and you couldn't pay me enough to work out there.  I think China is working on a molten salt design.


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## cst1992 (Oct 18, 2021)

TheEndIsNear said:


> China is working on a molten salt design


The aforementioned thorium reactor.



Tigger said:


> How far from thorium generation?


At least a few years. It's still in the experimental stage.


Tigger said:


> what is the waste product?


U-233 and plutonium.


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