# Newbie needing help with getting surround sound from PC



## deastr (Jan 22, 2020)

I want to get 5.1 surround sound from my PC using my 5.1 home theater system but I couldn't figure out what sound card to buy and what kind of cables, output and inputs to use to connect it to my receiver. I'm kinda lost and I'd appreciate any help.

Here's the backside of my receiver:






Does this receiver support true 5.1 input? It supports DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD/DigitalPlus/ProLogic II.

What kind of sound card should I buy? (my on-board sound card doesn't support surround sound)

What kind of connection should I use? What output from sound card to what input on receiver using what kind of cable?

I'd appreciate any guidance.


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## Jetster (Jan 22, 2020)

HDMI from your GPU on your PC is the best option 
You don't need a sound card. The receiver is the DAC


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## deastr (Jan 23, 2020)

Jetster said:


> HDMI from your GPU on your PC is the best option
> You don't need a sound card. The receiver is the DAC


I tried GPU->HDMI->TV and it only does Stereo, no option for surround on output device (Nvidia) settings. I also tried PC->HDMI->Receiver->TV but that also turned out only Stereo.


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 23, 2020)

What is the receiver model?


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## londiste (Jan 23, 2020)

Only some DTS or Dolby encoded 5.1 fits through Coax or Optical.
HDMI can fit 5.1 channels through but you may need to check the receiver documentation/specifications for what it can actually do.

Using HDMI for audio should be the best option either way.



deastr said:


> I tried GPU->HDMI->TV and it only does Stereo, no option for surround on output device (Nvidia) settings. I also tried PC->HDMI->Receiver->TV but that also turned out only Stereo.


That depends on a bunch of things. Some receivers can detect the output device capabilities and if TV says it is stereo, receiver will only work with stereo.


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## Jetster (Jan 23, 2020)

deastr said:


> I tried GPU->HDMI->TV and it only does Stereo, no option for surround on output device (Nvidia) settings. I also tried PC->HDMI->Receiver->TV but that also turned out only Stereo.



Its your source?? . You not passing through the sound to your TV are you? You have 5.1 speakers on your receiver right?

If your source is 2.1 you can use Prologic to have it mimic 5.1


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## kapone32 (Jan 23, 2020)

Plug the Optical(Toslink) from your MB sound card to the Toslink on the receiver. That should allow you to use the receiver's sound settings to give you whatever the receiver can do natively. Just remember to set Windows to default that output for your audio.


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## Jetster (Jan 23, 2020)

Toslink can't do DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD. Only compressed 5.1


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## kapone32 (Jan 23, 2020)

Jetster said:


> Toslink can't do DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD. Only compressed 5.1



Actually you are quite correct. The OP might be able to use one of these to get that. I am pretty sure this card may be the solution to his problem. I had a Xonar card before (I find the 1220 is fine for sound) and it supported DTS. 



			Amazon.ca


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## deastr (Jan 24, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> What is the receiver model?



Philips htb5570d/12



Jetster said:


> Its your source?? . You not passing through the sound to your TV are you? You have 5.1 speakers on your receiver right?
> 
> If your source is 2.1 you can use Prologic to have it mimic 5.1



I don't know what passing through means. I chose receiver output as input source on TV?



Jetster said:


> Toslink can't do DTS-HD or Dolby TrueHD. Only compressed 5.1



What's the difference with compressed 5.1? Sound quality? Or fake surround or something?



kapone32 said:


> Actually you are quite correct. The OP might be able to use one of these to get that. I am pretty sure this card may be the solution to his problem. I had a Xonar card before (I find the 1220 is fine for sound) and it supported DTS.
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.ca



If I get this card how should I connect it to the receiver? Toslink?


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## kapone32 (Jan 24, 2020)

deastr said:


> Philips htb5570d/12
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes.


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## deastr (Jan 24, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> Yes.


Thank you, but which of my questions did you answer, I see three quotes?


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## kapone32 (Jan 24, 2020)

deastr said:


> Thank you, but which of my questions did you answer, I see three quotes?



For using the Toslink on the sound card.


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## Jetster (Jan 24, 2020)

deastr said:


> I don't know what passing through means. I chose receiver output as input source on TV?
> 
> What's the difference with compressed 5.1? Sound quality? Or fake surround or something?



TV has nothing to do with sound. Compressed 5.1 is DTS or DD. Uncomplessed is DTS HD or True HD. Its mostly real 5.1. Prologic and some DTS compresion mimics 5.1

Passthrough:

When a component does nothing to a signal, just lets it go as is. This is why you do not need a sound card. HDMI will carry the Digital audio to the AVR to be processed there.

One more thing. Trash in / Trash out.  If your source is not 5.1 your sound will not be 5.1


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## trickson (Jan 24, 2020)

understanding Dolby and DTS.

There are just a few ways to connect a computer to a AVR system. Thins have changed over the years.
I'm not like everyone else I do not have any way to hook my computer to the AVR other than through the optical inputs. 
I could use 3.5mm jack to RCA but that is only analog and you would need WOW 4 of these wires to hook up the AVR.
It's really odd to me that if HDMI is the ONLY way to get 7.1 or Dolby or any surround you need HDMI when in fact this is NOT even close to true. 
If this is even close to true then the fact that the very connection used (optical S/PDIF - out.) would in fact be an HDMI connection.
Any way this sound stuff is very confusing.
I have only 2 way to connect any ANY other components into my AVR receiver. HDMI is NOT one of them so simply telling EVERY one to use this HOOK up or you wont get TRUE this or Dolby that is well miss leading at best (TO ME) JMHO. 
From my understanding of all this Dolby this and DTS that is no matter the signal that is coming into the receiver (2 Channel) It will take that "Signal" and run it through a special board on the ARV that takes that signal and makes it 5.1 , 7.1 , Dolby and the such. 
I personally would use the optical S/PDIF and NOT the video card. Just my preference and all this talk about the signal not getting through and not having TRUE this OMG You guys give me a headache with this crap.
If you can hook up through the video card / HDMI then yeah go for it. But stop thinking EVERY one can hook up this way. It's NOT at all the ONLY way to get true surround sound! 
I KNOW!


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## kapone32 (Jan 24, 2020)

trickson said:


> understanding Dolby and DTS.
> 
> There are just a few ways to connect a computer to a AVR system. Thins have changed over the years.
> I'm not like everyone else I do not have any way to hook my computer to the AVR other than through the optical inputs.
> ...



100% agree with this. I was an audio buff before getting into PC. I have a Sony receiver. Any receiver that has digital sound stages will be able to reproduce those from any digital signal coming into the receiver and the best is still Toslink. Even though my receiver is from 1999 it plays fine with my 2019 (R5 2400G) HTPC using Toslink. It's too bad we don't know the OP's specs though because most modern motherboards come with a Toslink out. Even if it's an older Codec the receiver will do the heavy lifting in outputting the sound so the quality will be there. WIth HDMI there are so many standards from 1.1 to 2.1 and each of those has different sound settings and capabilities.


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## trickson (Jan 24, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> 100% agree with this. I was an audio buff before getting into PC. I have a Sony receiver. Any receiver that has digital sound stages will be able to reproduce those from any digital signal coming into the receiver and the best is still Toslink. Even though my receiver is from 1999 it plays fine with my 2019 (R5 2400G) HTPC using Toslink. It's too bad we don't know the OP's specs though because most modern motherboards come with a Toslink out. Even if it's an older Codec the receiver will do the heavy lifting in outputting the sound so the quality will be there. WIth HDMI there are so many standards from 1.1 to 2.1 and each of those has different sound settings and capabilities.


Also the question of why sound cards ( Really good ones) Have Toslink and 3.5mm - RCA and NOT just an HDMI out? OH wait NOT one sound card out to date has an HDMI cable connection. NOT ONE!
Yeah can you tell me why the sound card is needed on the MB if the video card can do that heavy lifting?
LOL. Confused yet? I know I am LOL.
I have NEVER looked at a video card and said OMG this is going to give me KILLER SOUND And where is the head phone jack on the video card?! WTF!



Jetster said:


> TV has nothing to do with sound. Compressed 5.1 is DTS or DD. Uncomplessed is DTS HD or True HD. Its mostly real 5.1. Prologic and some DTS compresion mimics 5.1
> 
> Passthrough:
> 
> ...


Yet NO one buy's a video card to use as a sound card and well all of what I have said.
No line in /Line out no mic. WOW what a useless way to hook up an AVR system.

Read this
There is only 2 new reasons for HDMI and it would seem like it is still taking time to catch on.
Dolby True and DTS master, MEH I have enough surround sound modes and have the full range of my AVR receivers different sound modes.
Just choose the one that works best for you.
If I use HDMI I still have to some how get that signal to the ARV and there are ONLY 2 ways Toslink and RCA. So it's like got to go through 2 or 3 (depending on how you look at it) different decoders and not just one, This is where things get messed up.
SO if you have your computer video card hooked to the monitor/ TV just how are you connecting the system to the AVR?
It's not like the system can magically pick up this signal.
I can use my TV/monitor to as a decoder through the HDMI cable that hooks to the video card but then I have strange signal crossover and distorted surround sound and when you click on setup speakers you only hear 4 speakers LOL the sub is dead the center is dead the surround A-L/R is GONE it's a JOKE!
Be careful 2 many decoders and you will get shitzzzy sound.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 24, 2020)

@deastr After connecting your receiver to the HDMI port, go to sound control panel, right-click the HDMI audio endpoint and select configure speakers. Check whether you can configure 5.1 there.
Your device has HDMI in, in your case HDMI is preferred to spdif.
If you don't have any other option other than stereo, open the endpoint, select the supported formats tab, take a screenshot and post here.
Edit: Apologies for the noise on the thread; a discussion on the superiority of either SPDIF or HDMI was being made; you can skip to the next page to discuss your case.


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## trickson (Jan 24, 2020)

CityCultivator said:


> @deastr After connecting your receiver to the HDMI port, go to sound control panel, right-click the HDMI audio endpoint and select configure speakers. Check whether you can configure 5.1 there.
> Your device has HDMI in, in your case HDMI is preferred to spdif.
> If you don't have any other option other than stereo, open the endpoint, select the supported formats tab, take a screenshot and post here.


So let me see if I got this right, You connect the video card to the tv/monitor, Then from the TV/monitor via another HDMI cable to the AVR?
That would meant that the sound decoder (or whatever it is) on the Video card needs to go through the TV/Monitor then from there to the ARV? 2 many decoders and mixers things are NOT going to be good IMHO.
WOW seems like a bit more than needed at any rate some HOW that ARV has to be connected to the computer and Toslink is still the best way to do this IMHO (and only way for some).


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## CityCultivator (Jan 24, 2020)

trickson said:


> So let me see if I got this right you connect the video card to the tv/monitor, Then from the TV/monitor via another HDMI cable to the AVR?
> That would meant that the sound decoder (or whatever it is) on the Video card needs to go through the TV/Monitor then from there to the ARV? 2 many decoders and mixers things are NOT going to be good IMHO.
> WOW seems like a bit more than needed at any rate some HOW that ARV has to be connected to the computer and Toslink is still the best way to do this IMHO (and only way for some).


No, Video card to receiver HDMI in, the receiver then goes to TV directly.
Note: my receiver is SPDIF only.


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## trickson (Jan 24, 2020)

CityCultivator said:


> No, Video card to receiver HDMI in, the receiver then goes to TV directly.
> Note: my receiver is SPDIF only.


Oh okay well that does sound more like it then.
But just remember some can NOT hook up VIA the HDMI nor have I seen any sound cards implement this as the norm so there is still this to consider as well.

Still need 2 HDMI cables though.


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## londiste (Jan 24, 2020)

Actually, I would disagree. Not much has changed over the years. The latest big change was audio over HDMI (more specifically the addition of ARC) and that has been a thing for... a decade? It is confusing but there is logic to it:
- Analog is simple and elegant - you need wires, usually RCA connectors and multiple cables for more channels.
- Digital is a mess when you go beyond stereo. 
Stereo is fine and you can use pretty much any cable/connection. 
5.1 and more on the other hand needs considerable bandwidth and it does not fit through SPDIF (either RCA or TOSLINK). 

Workaround to lack of bandwidth was and is DTS and DD which compress the audio data are are both proprietary codecs that device manufacturers need to pay for using. By today, most receivers do support the various codecs but the picture is not that pretty on PC side of things. Passthrough audio - i.e. sending already compressed and encoded audio stream (for example the one from DVD or Bluray) through the cable works fine most of the time. Getting PC 5.1 audio DTS/DD encoded is an annoying mess and generally better to avoid.

HDMI has a lot of bandwidth for audio and uncompressed 5.1 will go though it just fine, making it a plug-and-play solution that is objectively better than others.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 24, 2020)

trickson said:


> Oh okay well that does sound more like it then.
> But just remember some can NOT hook up VIA the HDMI nor have I seen any sound cards implement this as the norm so there is still this to consider as well.


Forget sound card.
There was only 1 HDMI soundcard, the ASUS HDAV Xonar and it was a placeholder solution when no high quality audio video cards were there. Previous video cards used SPDIF to use as HDMI audio.
Modern video cards do have a native sound controller on the GPU die for audio.


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## kapone32 (Jan 24, 2020)

londiste said:


> Actually, I would disagree. Not much has changed over the years. The latest big change was audio over HDMI (more specifically the addition of ARC) and that has been a thing for... a decade? It is confusing but there is logic to it:
> - Analog is simple and elegant - you need wires, usually RCA connectors and multiple cables for more channels.
> - Digital is a mess when you go beyond stereo.
> Stereo is fine and you can use pretty much any cable/connection.
> ...



That is why you use a sound card. Any sound card worth it's salt will overcome what you are mentioning.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 24, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> That is why you use a sound card. Any sound card worth it's salt will overcome what you are mentioning.


Sound card cannot prevent technical limitations. SPDIF is bandwidth limited to only stereo and compressed DD/DTS.
HDMI is not. It supports all that SPDIF has and more.
"That is why you _do not_ use a sound card."


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## trickson (Jan 24, 2020)

londiste said:


> Actually, I would disagree. Not much has changed over the years. The latest big change was audio over HDMI (more specifically the addition of ARC) and that has been a thing for... a decade? It is confusing but there is logic to it:
> - Analog is simple and elegant - you need wires, usually RCA connectors and multiple cables for more channels.
> - Digital is a mess when you go beyond stereo.
> Stereo is fine and you can use pretty much any cable/connection.
> ...


Not sure about you but I have like I stated before Dolby digital surround , DTS and 5.1-7.1 channel stereo so all what you are saying is well not really true.
How can you say that Toslink isn't giving me 7.1 or even 5.1  or any other settings from my AVR ? when I know for a FACT this is NOT the case. It sure sounds like I have all my FULL FEATURES from the manufacture hooking up to Toslink or RCA! so what are you really saying? 
The ONLY real way to do anything is HDMI and this is just NOT correct! THERE WAS A TIME BEFORE HDMI!


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## CityCultivator (Jan 24, 2020)

trickson said:


> Not sure about you but I have like I stated before Dolby digital surround , DTS and 5.1-7.1 channel stereo so all what you are saying is well not really true.
> How can you say that Toslink isn't giving me 7.1 or even 5.1  or any other settings from my AVR ? when I know for a FACT this is NOT the case. It sure sounds like I have all my FULL FEATURES from the manufacture hooking up to Toslink or RCA! so what are you really saying?
> The ONLY real way to do anything is HDMI and this is just NOT correct! THERE WAS A TIME BEFORE HDMI!


How are you getting 5.1?
DD, DTS? These are compressed formats. These, like mp3, are lossy compression and cause latency.
Prologic/Neo:6? These are matrix encoding. These cannot perfectly restore a 5.1 signal from a stereo signal, which the sound card is sending.
HDMI do lossless PCM 5.1. No other consumer formats do so (Except Displayport,but receivers do not support displayport.)


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## trickson (Jan 24, 2020)

CityCultivator said:


> Sound card cannot prevent technical limitations. SPDIF is bandwidth limited to only stereo and compressed DD/DTS.
> HDMI is not. It supports all that SPDIF has and more.
> "That is why you _do not_ use a sound card."


If this was really the case there would be NO sound cards on the market nor would there be any on the MB's. And every one would have nothing but HDMI from DAY one! This is just so much snake oil!

I still have yet to see anyone say hell yes this video card has the best sound on the market! SNAKE OIL!



CityCultivator said:


> How are you getting 5.1?
> DD, DTS? These are compressed formats. These, like mp3, are lossy compression and cause latency.
> Prologic/Neo:6? These are matrix encoding. These cannot perfectly restore a 5.1 signal from a stereo signal, which the sound card is sending.
> HDMI do lossless PCM 5.1. No other consumer formats do so (Except Displayport,but receivers do not support displayport.)


OMG I am not getting into this I just DO!
IN fact MY AVR TELLS ME SO!


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## CityCultivator (Jan 24, 2020)

trickson said:


> If this was really the case there would be NO sound cards on the market nor would there be any on the MB's. And every one would have nothing but HDMI from DAY one! This is just so much snake oil!
> 
> I still have yet to see anyone say hell yes this video card has the best sound on the market! SNAKE OIL!


You don't understand does not mean it isn't so.


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## londiste (Jan 24, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> That is why you use a sound card. Any sound card worth it's salt will overcome what you are mentioning.





CityCultivator said:


> Sound card cannot prevent technical limitations. SPDIF is bandwidth limited to only stereo and compressed DD/DTS.
> HDMI is not. It supports all that SPDIF has and more.
> "That is why you _do not_ use a sound card."


You are both right.
Sound card does not overcome bandwidth limitation of the connection.
Sound card can encode audio to DTS/DD and send the same audio across that connection. In this case for example , encode 5.1 sound to DD and send it over SPDIF.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 24, 2020)

londiste said:


> You are both right.
> Sound card does not overcome bandwidth limitation of the connection.
> Sound card can encode audio to DTS/DD and send the same audio across that connection. In this case for example , encode 5.1 sound to DD and send it over SPDIF.


My receiver only support SPDIF, not HDMI, so I use DDL as solution for 5.1.


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## trickson (Jan 24, 2020)

CityCultivator said:


> You don't understand does not mean it isn't so.


That goes both ways.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 24, 2020)

trickson said:


> That goes both ways.


I would like a quote somewhere reputable that SPDIF supports 5.1 natively (without compression or matrixing). It would be useful cause my receiver only support SPDIF.


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## londiste (Jan 24, 2020)

trickson said:


> If this was really the case there would be NO sound cards on the market nor would there be any on the MB's. And every one would have nothing but HDMI from DAY one! This is just so much snake oil!
> I still have yet to see anyone say hell yes this video card has the best sound on the market! SNAKE OIL!


What exactly does a good/best sound card mean?

Sound card quality used to be its DACs that drive its analog outputs and this is still the case today, although to some degree the meta has moved to sending digital audio from sound card to external amplifier.
Today, the purpose of a good or professional sound card is doing hardware accelerated sound processing. This involves both hardware as well as software and is definitely not something everyone needs.

What this thread has been concentrating on are digital connections where DACs do not play a role. Both SPDIF and HDMI are used to send digital audio over them, there really is no quality question in the part of transferring the audio. Majority of people do not need to process or work on the sound and just sending sound to output does not need additional features.

The audio circuit in GPU that outputs audio to HDMI is enough for vast majority of use cases today. Separate audio codec on motherboard is there primarily for the usual outputs - 3.5mm (x3 for 5.1) and SPDIF so people can connect their PC to different audio devices.



trickson said:


> If I use HDMI I still have to some how get that signal to the ARV and there are ONLY 2 ways Toslink and RCA. So it's like got to go through 2 or 3 (depending on how you look at it) different decoders and not just one, This is where things get messed up.
> SO if you have your computer video card hooked to the monitor/ TV just how are you connecting the system to the AVR?
> It's not like the system can magically pick up this signal.
> I can use my TV/monitor to as a decoder through the HDMI cable that hooks to the video card but then I have strange signal crossover and distorted surround sound and when you click on setup speakers you only hear 4 speakers LOL the sub is dead the center is dead the surround A-L/R is GONE it's a JOKE!
> Be careful 2 many decoders and you will get shitzzzy sound.


If AVR supports HDMI and ARC, the intended way is to connect AVR-s output HDMI port to TV-s ARC-capable HDMI port. Any input devices connect to AVR.

If you send audio to TV and from TV to AVR, you need to be mindful of what type of audio is being sent where. Again, stereo is fine. 5.1 is a problem. TVs are mostly able to decode DTS/DD, are usually able to passthrough that same encoded signal but may not be able to encode these for output. For example, TV can play uncompressed 5.1 coming to TV via HDMI but will often not be able to output that same 5.1 signal via SPDIF. In most cases TVs tend to output stereo.


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## Valantar (Jan 24, 2020)

trickson said:


> If this was really the case there would be NO sound cards on the market nor would there be any on the MB's. And every one would have nothing but HDMI from DAY one! This is just so much snake oil!
> 
> I still have yet to see anyone say hell yes this video card has the best sound on the market! SNAKE OIL!
> 
> ...


Uhm, you do realize that the vast majority of PC users - perhaps especially those using sound cards - do not hook their PC up to an AVR, right? The main draw of a sound card is a good DAC, which would make the AVR rather redundant (it would only serve as an amplifier, but then a noisy and poor one in all likelihood) or hardware accelerated processing as @londiste said.

Sound cards have not adopted HDMI because HDMI is a video standard, and they would then need to do the complicated and irritating job of having an HDMI in port, taking in the signal from the PC's video card, mixing in the audio, and sending out a signal containing both. Unless you would like to sacrifice an HDMI port on your receiver for audio only, with a second one being needed for video from the same source - which would be silly. But again: what would the sound card be doing in that case, seeing how audio over HDMI is bit streaming lossless digital signals to be decoded by the AVR? The sound card would add very little value.

But beyond that, I find it very odd that you're coming in here shouting that "NOT EVERYONE HAS HDMI ON THEIR AVR" when the OP in this thread very clearly does.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 24, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Uhm, you do realize that the vast majority of PC users - perhaps especially those using sound cards - do not hook their PC up to an AVR, right? The main draw of a sound card is a good DAC, which would make the AVR rather redundant (it would only serve as an amplifier, but then a noisy and poor one in all likelihood) or hardware accelerated processing as @londiste said.
> 
> Sound cards have not adopted HDMI because HDMI is a video standard, and they would then need to do the complicated and irritating job of having an HDMI in port, taking in the signal from the PC's video card, mixing in the audio, and sending out a signal containing both. Unless you would like to sacrifice an HDMI port on your receiver for audio only, with a second one being needed for video from the same source - which would be silly. But again: what would the sound card be doing in that case, seeing how audio over HDMI is bit streaming lossless digital signals to be decoded by the AVR? The sound card would add very little value.
> 
> But beyond that, I find it very odd that you're coming in here shouting that "NOT EVERYONE HAS HDMI ON THEIR AVR" when the OP in this thread very clearly does.


To be fair to @trickson, most HTIBs and older receivers don't have HDMI in. The most expensive Blu-Ray HTIB models do have HDMI in. My HTIB doesn't.
Modern receivers have them as standard; these receivers even have video processing (enhancement) features.


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## londiste (Jan 24, 2020)

I get it that this thread is getting very fragmented but this is not exactly an easy topic to grasp unless you have had to deal with this mess.

Again, this is basically about 5.1, trying not to complicate this further as more channels (7.1, 11.2) will be even more problematic due to even more data that needs to be sent.
- 5.1 audio will fit though SPDIF only when it is compressed. DTS/DD are the industry standard codecs for this.
- To be fair, most home equipment works fine with SPDIF - DVD/Bluray players, game consoles, set-top boxes etc. The reason for this is that these devices output static audio stream from disc that is already encoded or have (usually hardware, for example in game consoles) encoder to encode the audio in real time. Audio stream is sent to device that is able to decode that stream and play it - TV, AVR, amplifier.
- PCs cause a problem here because the sound is generated on the spot dynamically. Think some Windows chime over movie soundtrack. Most audio cards are not able to encode audio to DTS/DD in real-time so it could be sent over the same SPDIF.

The absolute easiest and cheapest solution for PC is to use HDMI that can handle uncompressed 5.1 audio.

Realtime DTS/DD encoding is a thing on PC as well but it requires carefully choosing an audio device that supports it - sound cards capable of this list it in the specs and some motherboard integrated sound cards have the capability. There are hacky ways to do this in software but it is nothing a normal user wants to tackle.

Back to OPs question:


deastr said:


> I want to get 5.1 surround sound from my PC using my 5.1 home theater system but I couldn't figure out what sound card to buy and what kind of cables, output and inputs to use to connect it to my receiver. I'm kinda lost and I'd appreciate any help.
> 
> Here's the backside of my receiver:
> 
> ...


- This receiver has HDMI inputs and HDMI output. Pretty sure it works just fine with audio over HDMI. This would avoid audio encoding issues entirely.
- GPU audio part should work fine. Assuming Windows here but you should have "Intel/AMD/Nvidia High Definition Audio Device" in the selection for Output.
- From PC (GPU output) to either HDMI IN port. The best setup would probably include sending video also through this device, so a second HDMI cable from HDMI OUT (ARC) to TV's input.


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## trickson (Jan 24, 2020)

londiste said:


> I get it that this thread is getting very fragmented but this is not exactly an easy topic to grasp unless you have had to deal with this mess.
> 
> Again, this is basically about 5.1, trying not to complicate this further as more channels (7.1, 11.2) will be even more problematic due to even more data that needs to be sent.
> - 5.1 audio will fit though SPDIF only when it is compressed. DTS/DD are the industry standard codecs for this.
> ...


My MB supports 7.1 look it up the MSI x470 gaming plus.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 24, 2020)

londiste said:


> The absolute easiest and cheapest solution for PC is to use HDMI that can handle uncompressed 5.1 audio.


And also highest quality.


londiste said:


> Realtime DTS/DD encoding is a thing on PC as well but it requires carefully choosing an audio device that supports it - sound cards capable of this list it in the specs and some motherboard integrated sound cards have the capability. There are hacky ways to do this in software but it is nothing a normal user wants to tackle.


Hacking DDL myself.


trickson said:


> My MB supports 7.1 look it up the MSI x470 gaming plus.


7.1 analog? Easy.
Take a screenshot where it says 7.1 spdif.

Edit:
*Audio*
*Realtek® ALC892 Codec*


7.1-Channel High Definition Audio
Supports S/PDIF output

7.1 Analog.
Support spdif. Not said 7.1. Not even said 5.1.


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## trickson (Jan 24, 2020)

All I can say is the sound I get is fantastic I get all my full range of settings if you think I do not then that is ON you.
 If you think because I use Toslink I'm not getting something again I just think you are wrong. It all works perfect. 
Say what you will confuse it to no end and keep putting snake oil on it. I am out.


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## londiste (Jan 24, 2020)

trickson said:


> If you think because I use Toslink I'm not getting something again I just think you are wrong. It all works perfect.


You are using TOSLINK from MSI X470 Gaming Plus motherboard to your audio system? 
If that is the case, you are not getting a 7.1 (or 5.1) signal there. I am willing to bet you get stereo.

You do get 7.1 when you are using 4x3.5mm analog audio outputs.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 24, 2020)

trickson said:


> All I can say is the sound I get is fantastic I get all my full range of settings if you think I do not then that is ON you.
> If you think because I use Toslink I'm not getting something again I just think you are wrong. It all works perfect.
> Say what you will confuse it to no end and keep putting snake oil on it. I am out.


I use Toslink optical myself. With DDL.
Its just that HDMI remains the better solution when available.
To summarise: MOAR POWER TO YOU!


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 24, 2020)

Currently got this setup..

motherboard>Yamaha RX-V573 (Via HDMi)

Depending on your motherboard (and CPU) you might need to enable built in sound in your bios (there might be other audio options underneath that) - You will need to install AMD/Intel iGPu drivers to enable 5.1 via HDMi because the default Microsoft driver only allows stereo sound.

Ive been using this setup for the last few days after ditching my Creative SB-Z.


If you use MPC-HC then you'll need to go into the settings>Audio Renderer tick 'exclusive mode' and 'bitstream'

Load up a DTS or DD supported movie, pause it then right click filters>LAV Audio Decoder and basically you wanna tick and enable everything (all the formats) under Bitstreaming - ignore the optional about framing.

Close MPC-HC then load up a new movie and your AVR should autoselect whatever format the movie is encoded in.


^this has worked for me.


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## Valantar (Jan 24, 2020)

CityCultivator said:


> To be fair to @trickson, most HTIBs and older receivers don't have HDMI in. The most expensive Blu-Ray HTIB models do have HDMI in. My HTIB doesn't.
> Modern receivers have them as standard; these receivers even have video processing (enhancement) features.


Yes, but how does that apply to this thread? This isn't a general discussion, this is a thread where one person with a specific AVR asked for advice regarding that specific piece of hardware.

I kind of feel bad for the OP having to wade through this mess.


trickson said:


> All I can say is the sound I get is fantastic I get all my full range of settings if you think I do not then that is ON you.
> If you think because I use Toslink I'm not getting something again I just think you are wrong. It all works perfect.
> Say what you will confuse it to no end and keep putting snake oil on it. I am out.


Nobody is saying you can't get good sounding audio from TOSLINK, just that you can't get uncompressed 5.1 or 7.1 from it. That is a simple fact - the TOSLINK standard (and thus transmitters and receivers for it) does not have the bandwidth needed for this. Compressed audio can still sound very good. There's also reason to debate where the limits of audible compression are (that's where the snake oil debate comes in) but that is another discussion entirely and completely irrelevant to this thread. I just don't see why you're coming into this discussion and seemingly derailing it due to some pet peeve you have over people recommending HDMI for audio. The OP's AVR has HDMI, so using it is an obvious choice.


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## trickson (Jan 24, 2020)

Valantar said:


> Yes, but how does that apply to this thread? This isn't a general discussion, this is a thread where one person with a specific AVR asked for advice regarding that specific piece of hardware.
> 
> I kind of feel bad for the OP having to wade through this mess.
> 
> Nobody is saying you can't get good sounding audio from TOSLINK, just that you can't get uncompressed 5.1 or 7.1 from it. That is a simple fact - the TOSLINK standard (and thus transmitters and receivers for it) does not have the bandwidth needed for this. Compressed audio can still sound very good. There's also reason to debate where the limits of audible compression are (that's where the snake oil debate comes in) but that is another discussion entirely and completely irrelevant to this thread. I just don't see why you're coming into this discussion and seemingly derailing it due to some pet peeve you have over people recommending HDMI for audio. The OP's AVR has HDMI, so using it is an obvious choice.


Odiously because it is NOT the ONLY WAY TO HOOK UP THE AVR!
The OP's system can also use Toslink and even RCA! Why are you so stuck on ONLY offing ONE choice?
If it was the only true way then like I said everything else would be obsolete and NOT even in existence at all.
I mean even compute speaker systems would use them! AND NOT ONE OF THEM DO NOT ONE COMPUTER SPEAKER SYSTEM USES HDMI FOR A HOOKUP .
HDMI HOOK UP IS FOR VIDEO THAT IS WHAT 99.9999999999% of the common consumer knows and thinks, NOT one common normal every day user is thinking HMM HDMI is great for sound! OR I need an HDMI cable to hook my computer up. ! This is so lame an argument! It makes no sense at all.
BEFORE HDMI THERE WAS AND STILL IS Other ways to get surround sound. Jess I wounder how I get it?
Oh NO you do not get it at all then what the HELL is it? YOU are muddying up the water and confusing.



trickson said:


> Odiously because it is NOT the ONLY WAY TO HOOK UP THE AVR!
> The OP's system can also use Toslink and even RCA! Why are you so stuck on ONLY offing ONE choice?
> If it was the only true way then like I said everything else would be obsolete and NOT even in existence at all.
> I mean even compute speaker systems would use them! AND NOT ONE OF THEM DO NOT ONE COMPUTER SPEAKER SYSTEM USES HDMI FOR A HOOKUP .
> ...


Also where does it say that a discussion is braking the rules? and what rule did I break?
I said and it is true the OP can use an Optical cable to hook his system up then all the snake oil came out with HDMI and the like. Sorry you feel a discussion is not how YOU want it to go!


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## Valantar (Jan 24, 2020)

trickson said:


> Odiously because it is NOT the ONLY WAY TO HOOK UP THE AVR!
> The OP's system can also use Toslink and even RCA! Why are you so stuck on ONLY offing ONE choice?
> If it was the only true way then like I said everything else would be obsolete and NOT even in existence at all.
> I mean even compute speaker systems would use them! AND NOT ONE OF THEM DO NOT ONE COMPUTER SPEAKER SYSTEM USES HDMI FOR A HOOKUP .
> ...


Wow, dude, you need to calm down. Seriously.

First off: I never said it was the only way. Stop putting words in my mouth, please. I said it was the obvious way. Why? Because it is. This is an AV Receiver - an Audio Video Receiver. It belongs in an Audio Video setup - i.e. alongside a TV, projector or similar display solution. There thus needs to be a display cable hooked up no matter what. This receiver has the ability to pass through HDMI video while making use of HDMI audio - which, among other things, supports 5.1 surround like the OP is asking for. Hence, using an HDMI cable, they only need to run a single cable, and everything should work out of the box with minimal setup required.

As for offering only one choice: why not? Making three-four different suggestions at one time is a _terrible_ way of giving advice. Unless you want to overwhelm someone into giving up right away, present them with what you believe is the simplest and best option first, and then move on to other possibilities if this does not work. In this case, HDMI is the simplest and best solution.

Beyond the obvious disadvantage of anything else requiring a second cable, there's also the point that HDMI has higher bandwidth - also for audio - than TOSLINK / S/PDIF allowing for uncompressed surround sound or more channels. This might not matter, but as demonstrated above (you need a sound card capable of real-time compression and encoding, among other things) there are significant drawbacks to using TOSLINK for surround from a PC. This doesn't mean it can't work, it's just a bit complicated. RCA is analog, and as such very susceptible to signal noise and interference, and should thus be avoided. The receiver is also likely to have a better DAC than the sound card in the PC. Again: can be used, but HDMI is a better option.

As for this statement:


trickson said:


> If it was the only true way then like I said everything else would be obsolete and NOT even in existence at all.


That's not how the real world works. Old and obsolete or semi-obsolete standards take a long, long time to disappear as equipment manufacturers want to maintain compatibility across whatever other equipment a buyer has. And again, neither I nor anyone else in this thread has said that HDMI is the only audio transfer standard in use, or that's relevant - just that it's the highest bandwidth one and the one most applicable to the OP's use case, and as such is the obvious choice to the exclusion of all others.

As for computer speakers not using HDMI, there are multiple factors to this:
- They are generally not made for home theater/living room AV use, and HDMI is primarily a home theater/living room AV standard - and the dominant one at that. Everything AV from recent years uses HDMI. The PC industry prefers DisplayPort.
- HDMI is not a free standard, meaning that speaker manufacturers would need to pay royalties if they started using it.
- PC audio is very different from living room audio. Most users keep a pair of simple speakers for a long time, or use headphones. Very few have a receiver or amplifier as part of their PC setup. These aren't _common_ in people's living rooms either, but much more common than around PCs.
- Passing your video signal through a central "hub" (receiver) before reaching your monitor in a PC setup makes very little sense - most monitors have one device only connected. Most TVs have multiple devices, making HDMI-switching receivers a natural fit. Again: different standards for different use cases.
- Audio integrated into the display signal in the PC world is a much more recent innovation than in the AV world where it has always been the case (well, technically RCA used a bundle of separate cables, but they all belonged together). HDMI took over after SCART, which also had both audio and video. Sound was tacked onto DVI as an optional addition, but never really integrated into PC display standards before DisplayPort. As such, there was a much longer period of time where standalone desktop speakers running off 3.5mm jacks were the norm (as these were also the only outputs on the majority of PCs).
- Last but not least: surround sound is almost nonexistent in the PC space. Sure, it does exist, but >99% of users only ever have stereo outputs connected to their PCs. As such, most PCs lack the hardware to live-encode compressed surround sound (which is also mostly proprietary formats requiring yet another license fee). Thus using a well established and widely available AV standard for this instead makes complete sense.

Also: No, HDMI is not "for video". It is for audio and video. Or do you believe the vast majority of TVs are silent? Yeah, no, that's not how this works. Most TVs  - and the game consoles, STBs and other equipment connected to them - use HDMI for both audio and video. With the advent of HDMI ARC, it has also now become the de facto standard for sending audio out to TV-connected stereo equipment (soundbars, receivers) though that is a slower trickle as most people use the speakers in their TV.

Edit: wow, I love that my previous post apparently warranted an "Angry" reaction. Care to expand on what exactly of what I said is cause for anger? You seem to have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed this morning my friend.


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## freeagent (Jan 25, 2020)

The way I do it is my gpu to my amp, amp to tv. In the control panel I have the device set to stereo, speakers large, then to its properties, and select 24/192. You might have to go lower, or just leave where it is. On my amp, my speakers are set to small, and sound mode is enhanced stereo, which is just multichannel stereo. That way I can pound tunes with the full glory of my subs. And when it’s movie time on the pc, if the content is there it will go to dtshd , or ddex, and it still sounds great. I have all the separation, and my subs still hit hard. I don’t have it set to multichannel in the hardware properties, it handles the switch from stereo on its own.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 25, 2020)

freeagent said:


> The way I do it is my gpu to my amp, amp to tv. In the control panel I have the device set to stereo, speakers large, then to its properties, and select 24/192. You might have to go lower, or just leave where it is. On my amp, my speakers are set to small, and sound mode is enhanced stereo, which is just multichannel stereo. That way I can pound tunes with the full glory of my subs. And when it’s movie time on the pc, if the content is there it will go to dtshd , or ddex, and it still sounds great. I have all the separation, and my subs still hit hard. I don’t have it set to multichannel in the hardware properties, it handles the switch from stereo on its own.


Your method is excellent for movie playback, but can be an issue if gaming is being done. OP must consider for what is their main usage of the system.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 25, 2020)

CityCultivator said:


> , but can be an issue if gaming is being done.



I game with my setup. No problem here. Though the the signal drops to PCM but PCM is able to carry 5.1 and 7.1 streams. The only real caveat I see is you can kiss goodbye to EAX. But there hasn't been any new titles that made use of that tech in a very long time. 

Use the AVRs audio profiles to get the best out of gaming and movies


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 25, 2020)

All right OP my suggestion is to run like my setup.  Don't plug the GPU to the AVR than tv as you'll get latency which depending on games sucks

How i run my 5.1 Setup

Take the HDMI cable from the GPU to the TV, than take another HDMI cable from the TV HDMI Port labeled ARC and plug it directly to the AVR. This will allow Dolby HD and DTS HD and you will be able to control volume and power with the TV remote. 

But you must note what you are playing or watching must support 5.1/7.1 which may require you going in there menu settings and changing audio profile specifically games.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 25, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> All right OP my suggestion is to run like my setup.  Don't plug the GPU to the AVR than tv as you'll get latency which depending on games sucks
> 
> How i run my 5.1 Setup
> 
> ...


ARC, in OP case cannot do HD formats; it is similar to spdif.


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 25, 2020)

CityCultivator said:


> ARC, in OP case cannot do HD formats; it is similar to spdif.


Depends on the TV

Most newer TVs made in 2019 and above support eARC which supports higher bandwidth for HD formats. 

But we need to know what source material the OP will be using as most moves and games don't support lossless\ HD audio formats


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## CityCultivator (Jan 25, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> Depends on the TV
> 
> Most newer TVs made in 2019 and above support eARC which supports higher bandwidth for HD formats.
> 
> But we need to know what source material the OP will be using as most moves and games don't support lossless\ HD audio formats


The receiver doesn't support eARC.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jan 25, 2020)

can we all just BTFU until the OP comes back and posts something rather than turning this thread into a mud slinging match??

if you gotta bro-down then take it to pms, stop unnecessarily shitting up the thread


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## trickson (Jan 25, 2020)

FreedomEclipse said:


> I game with my setup. No problem here. Though the the signal drops to PCM but PCM is able to carry 5.1 and 7.1 streams. The only real caveat I see is you can kiss goodbye to EAX. But there hasn't been any new titles that made use of that tech in a very long time.
> 
> Use the AVRs audio profiles to get the best out of gaming and movies


OMFG I have been saying this too but I am told that there is NO WAY IN HELL that PCM can transmit 5.1 nor 7.1 hell from what I have been told PCM is nothing more than stereo! WTF!


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## freeagent (Jan 25, 2020)

Why are you using PCM? Gross..


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 25, 2020)

trickson said:


> OMFG I have been saying this too but I am told that there is NO WAY IN HELL that PCM can transmit 5.1 nor 7.1 hell from what I have been told PCM is nothing more than stereo! WTF!


I think it clearly flew over your head

From my ready though of the thread, no one ever said PCM is stereo 

The statement was clearly optical can't transmit uncompressed 5.1/7.1 which is 100% true. Meaning no it can not transmit DTSHD or DolbyHD

But it can transmits standard dolby and dts compressed formats


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## trickson (Jan 25, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> I think it clearly flew over your head
> 
> From my ready though of the thread, no one ever said PCM is stereo
> 
> ...


All I know is I am done!
You people are right that is all. good luck.
I have banged my head about this long enough.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 25, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Why are you using PCM? Gross..


Multichannel gaming uses PCM.
What is gross in PCM?


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## Ferrum Master (Jan 25, 2020)

trickson said:


> NO WAY IN HELL that PCM can transmit 5.1 nor 7.1 hell from what I have been told PCM is nothing more than stereo! WTF!





trickson said:


> All I know is I am done!
> You people are right that is all. good luck.
> I have banged my head about this long enough.



Get a stiff one... I am usually out of these half arsed audio threads, it too hard to teach someone, the others also don't understand and sink the boat completely.




Once and for all... don't post if you don't understand and steer out of the threads.

SPDIF does support ONLY 2 channel PCM stream. It cannot do more due to limited bandwidth.

Do NOT mix up the darn HDMI, as that is capable of multi channel PCM.

Multi channel through SPDIF is done with compression algorithms, in order to have enough bandwidth, those are - DTS and Dolby Digital.

Are we clear now?


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## freeagent (Jan 25, 2020)

CityCultivator said:


> Multichannel gaming uses PCM.
> What is gross in PCM?



Nothing gross about it at all, I thought everyone was into the DD thing. If it sounds good use it. I've seen multichannel gaming use dd and dts too, all good.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 25, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Nothing gross about it at all, I thought everyone was into the DD thing. If it sounds good use it. I've seen multichannel gaming use dd and dts too, all good.


Not on PC. Game engines send out uncompressed PCM signals.


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## trickson (Jan 25, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> Get a stiff one... I am usually out of these half arsed audio threads, it too hard to teach someone, the others also don't understand and sink the boat completely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


YES SIR!


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 25, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> SPDIF does support ONLY 2 channel PCM stream. It cannot do more due to limited bandwidth.


That is not only incorrect, but it's downright silly.








						S/PDIF - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				





> S/PDIF is based on the AES3 interconnect standard.[3] S/PDIF can carry two channels of uncompressed PCM audio or compressed 5.1/7.1 surround sound (such as DTS audio codec); it cannot support lossless surround formats that require greater bandwidth.[4]


Please review.


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## CityCultivator (Jan 25, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> That not only incorrect, but it's downright silly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"two channels of uncompressed PCM audio or compressed 5.1/7.1 surround sound (such as DTS audio codec)"
What part is incorrect? Unclear?
Original post said "2 channel PCM" or "Multi channel through SPDIF is done with compression algorithms, in order to have enough bandwidth, those are - DTS and Dolby Digital"

P.s. Sorry to OP, still going to semantics of formats instead of discussing real specific needs.


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 25, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> That not only incorrect, but it's downright silly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 25, 2020)

CityCultivator said:


> What part is incorrect? Unclear?


Let's review;


Ferrum Master said:


> *SPDIF does support ONLY 2 channel PCM stream. It cannot do more due to limited bandwidth.*


That's what he said and my response was;


lexluthermiester said:


> That is not only incorrect, but it's downright silly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where is your difficulty of understanding?


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## CityCultivator (Jan 25, 2020)

@lexluthermiester Lower in the same comment DTS compression over SPDIF was explained. Thus the Wikipedia line 


> S/PDIF can carry two channels of uncompressed PCM audio or compressed 5.1/7.1 surround sound (such as DTS audio codec); it cannot support lossless surround formats that require greater bandwidth.[4]


was fully explained in the original comment.


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 25, 2020)

The point was that it was stated that SPDIF could ONLY do 2 channel PCM, which is patently false. SPDIF can do 2 channel uncompressed *AND* 5.1/7.1 compressed. 

That was the false statement and that is what I addressed. Why are you arguing?


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## trickson (Jan 25, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> That not only incorrect, but it's downright silly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was trying to say this but man did you see the beat down I got?!
I am now starting to get offended by some of the comments directed at me. I know I am RIGHT yet told how wrong I am? WTF!



lexluthermiester said:


> The point was that it was stated that SPDIF could ONLY do 2 channel PCM, which is patently false. SPDIF can do 2 channel uncompressed *AND* 5.1/7.1 compressed.
> 
> That was the false statement and that is what I addressed. Why are you arguing?


RIGHT! I am really at a loss on to how I am wrong!

I guess my ears not only are lying to me but so is my OSD telling me digital Dolby surround , 7 channel and the like right? ALL FROM THE FIBER OPTIC CABLE! OMG NO!!!!!!!!!


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 25, 2020)

trickson said:


> I was trying to say this but man did you see the beat down I got?!


Yup, saw it.


trickson said:


> I am now starting to get offended by some of the comments directed at me. I know I am RIGHT yet told how wrong I am? WTF!


Your frustration is easily understood. 


trickson said:


> RIGHT! I am really at a loss on to how I am wrong!


You're not wrong, they're trolling you, which is why I jumped in with a statement of fact that they can not refute. The only argument they have left will be one of ego, little more.


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## trickson (Jan 25, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yup, saw it.
> 
> Your frustration is easily understood.
> 
> Your not wrong, they're trolling you, which is why I jumped in with a statement of fact that they can not refute. The only argument they have left will be one of ego, little more.


Thank you so much man it's just so frustrating knowing the sky is blue but being told it's really GREEN!


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 25, 2020)

trickson said:


> it's just so frustrating knowing the sky is blue but being told it's really GREEN!


Been there. I feel your pain.


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## Valantar (Jan 25, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> The point was that it was stated that SPDIF could ONLY do 2 channel PCM, which is patently false. SPDIF can do 2 channel uncompressed *AND* 5.1/7.1 compressed.
> 
> That was the false statement and that is what I addressed. Why are you arguing?


You're misreading the statement. You're reading it to say "SPDIF can only do 2-channel PCM and nothing else, period." What it's meant to say, which is clear from both the rest of the post and the rest of this thread is "SPDIF can only do 2-channel PCM, no more channels than that of uncompressed audio." Sure, there is some ambiguity in the wording, but you're reading this directly against all relevant context and then stating that it's wrong. I think you're the one who should review.

Edit: to make this a bit more clear: you're reading this as "SPDIF can ONLY do [X]" where X is 2-channel PCM. The correct reading would be "SPDIF can only do [X] channel PCM" where X is 2. I don't know the linguistic terms for this, but you're misreading this entirely.


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## Valantar (Jan 25, 2020)

Wow, @lexluthermiester, here I had the impression that you were one of the more sensible people on these forums in terms of people actually capable of having an adult exchange of views, and you like that post? Damn, that's disappointing.

@trickson for the entirety of this thread you have been saying that SPDIF is capable of transferring more than two channels of uncompressed audio. You have been arguing harshly against people stating that no, for SPDIF to support more than two channels, the audio must be compressed. Yet here you are saying you agree with Lex when he (through misunderstanding a previous post) states exactly that. Care to explain?


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## bogmali (Jan 25, 2020)

Just a friendly warning, get back on topic and help the OP


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## trickson (Jan 25, 2020)

Personally the OP has all the information needed to hook up his ARV you CAN use RCA you can use Fiber optic cable and you can also use HDMI. it's just a matter of how you choose to do it they will ALL work within there operational parameters and you can trust YOUR ARV's OSD as to what the setting is your AVR has a decoder built right into it. 
Bet this gets closed to many trolls.


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## Tatty_One (Jan 25, 2020)

You were asked very nicely to get back on topic, despite some of you reporting this thread the nonsense has continued therefore, as I clearly cannot leave you to your own devices I am going to close this, if the OP comes back and want's it re-opened I will do so and at the same time apply a few thread bans.


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