# High pitched noise coming out of the speakers when moving the mouse



## Octopuss (Jul 16, 2021)

This is some seriously weird shit I noticed this several days ago. Barely noticeable high pitched noise coming from the speakers when I move the mouse. I heard about this in past, it's supposedly something to do with electrical interference or something.
I believe everything is properly grounded (why/how shouldn't it?), and I have standalone soundcard connected to an amplifier.

When I turn the amp volume all the way to the max, I get permanent cracking noise plus the buzzing when I move the mouse. It also changes when there's load on the CPU I believe.

The only time the noise is gone is about two seconds after powering the PC up. It does that even in the BIOS, so it's unrelated to the OS.

I am not entirely sure, but I THINK it might have started after recent BIOS update with the USB fixes for Zen. That's just a vague impression, because I am not sure. 

Any ideas? This is frustrating as hell.


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## Ferrum Master (Jul 16, 2021)

There is no fix. It is the mouse doing interrupts and ramping up CPU VRM. 

It is a poor motherboard design. There is no cure for it un less you force everything run on constant maximum without any power saving feature.

Fastest cure is to galvanically isolate the amplifier from the PC and most easy option is to use optical - SPDIF. There are galvanically isolated USB options and feed the DAC and then the amplifier.

Other than that... changing motherboard.


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## Octopuss (Jul 16, 2021)

Well no, like I said, when I ramp up the amp volume to 100% there is constant cracking noise even when I'm not moving the mouse, it's an "additional" noise to the mouse thing I discovered only by going up with volume. It's weird.


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## AleXXX666 (Jul 16, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> This is some seriously weird shit I noticed this several days ago. Barely noticeable high pitched noise coming from the speakers when I move the mouse. I heard about this in past, it's supposedly something to do with electrical interference or something.
> I believe everything is properly grounded (why/how shouldn't it?), and I have standalone soundcard connected to an amplifier.
> 
> When I turn the amp volume all the way to the max, I get permanent cracking noise plus the buzzing when I move the mouse. It also changes when there's load on the CPU I believe.
> ...


as said above, analog vs digital outputs etc. etc.
but, not anyone wanna mess with some super ultra audioplhile "quality" speakers, most normal people just get PC speakers depending on comfortable sound and/or budget for them and get things DONE.
I don't use "additional" sound cards, as they are waste of money for me for their price; i'll get some extra ssd or add up for better cooling solution or other stuff. but, this sh*t are usually found on cheapo no-name speakers. get Logitech or Creative, and at least 2:1 mid-priced solution, for example, don't know about all that "Audiotechnica", "Harman Cardon", "Bose" etc., if they make normal PC speakers with 3.5mm plug so most of users could use them without a mess.


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## Octopuss (Jul 16, 2021)

Well this setup I have is everything but cheap, but unfortunately the amp doesn't have digital input.
What puzzles me is I am half sure the noise wasn't there before.

I googled up a suggestion to file away any paint on motherboard screws, which supposedly helps with grounding. Probably worth a try.


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## Ferrum Master (Jul 16, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Well this setup I have is everything but cheap, but unfortunately the amp doesn't have digital input.
> What puzzles me is I am half sure the noise wasn't there before.
> 
> I googled up a suggestion to file away any paint on motherboard screws, which supposedly helps with grounding. Probably worth a try.



There are results actually lifting the grounding. Splitting audio ground from the case ground. It is a complicated thing. Ensure your audio amp is grounded too, if you have ground at your flat. I have not for example as the house was build before WW1. And I went optical, as I don't need anything more than 2 channels and neither I have better recordings than 24/96. If you have ensure devices share the same power outlet. If the amplifier does not use 3 pin grounded cable, there must be screw where to attach it. 

There are ground loops, you have to experiment. The noise can creep in from various paths, including motherboard screws, that could form a shorter path, than motherboard traces.


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## Octopuss (Jul 16, 2021)

I'm in Europe, everything is grounded 
I'll try different screws first.


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## Ferrum Master (Jul 16, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I'm in Europe, everything is grounded
> I'll try different screws first.



Prff... don't be so silly...

You can trust only if you have measured it. I've been in Prague enough times also. Older buildings are not rewired same as everywhere. You may have a grounded outlet by the looks, but isn't wired up. Seldom anyone even understands what ground is and what for it is needed.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 16, 2021)

There's no way to tell if it is a poor motherboard design or not. That's just a WAG and highly unlikely or it would effect many others using that same board. This is particularly evident if the sound only recently started. 

It would not have anything to do with a BIOS update either. 

You are right, this is due to interference - either excessive unwanted RF emissions from other nearby electronics, or insufficient shielding from such RF emissions. 

First, make sure the mouse and audio cables and connectors are in good repair. No cracks in the insulation and no exposed wires. Make sure all connections are tight and secure. Has the mouse been mishandled or dropped? You might try it on another computer and another mouse on this computer. 

Try to separate the mouse cable from the speaker cables with as much distance as much as possible. Do the same with "all" data cables - move them away as much as possible from all power cables. Move the mouse USB connection to a different USB port on the computer. 



Octopuss said:


> I'm in Europe, everything is grounded


Yeah, to believe that is being extremely naïve - and potentially dangerous. While it may be that everything is "_supposed_" to be grounded, never, as in NEVER EVER assume that it is. Such groundings must be established by a human. And humans make mistakes. Ground connections can be damaged or improperly connected from the start. 

Test your outlets. Every home and every computer user should have access to a AC Outlet Tester to ensure the wall outlet is properly wired and grounded to Earth ground. I recommend one with a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) indicator as it can be used to test bathroom and kitchen outlets (outlets near water) too. These testers can be found for your type and voltage outlet, foreign or domestic, (like this one for the UK) at most home improvement stores, or even the electrical department at Wal-Mart. Use it to test all the outlets in the home and if a fault is shown, have it fixed by a qualified electrician.

Note you want the grounds of all your computer components to be "at the same potential". To ensure this, it is important to power all the components (computer, monitor, speakers, etc.) from the same wall outlet. This is necessary since even two properly wired and grounded outlets in the same room will have a slightly different path to Earth ground, and thus a slightly different resistance to Earth ground. In some cases, this can cause interference. In more extreme cases, you might even feel a small electric tingle or shock if you touch two components powered by two different outlets at the same time. In very extreme cases, this could be dangerous to small children, pets, or people with heart pace makers. 

If you must power from different outlets, run a grounding wire loop connecting each component together to establish a "common ground". Basic 22 AWG "Hookup" wire to a case screw on on the metal chassis of each component case will establish that common ground. Just make sure the screw does not simply go into plastic.


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## Auer (Jul 16, 2021)

Try switching you amp power to a different circuit than your computer.

Optical is a good suggestion, so is casting over wifi.


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## Jose Jeswin (Jul 16, 2021)

Here is a diy method for making your own grounding cable by gamersnexus........you can make a cable yourself and leave it permanently connected with you computer case...

Gamersnexus DIY


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 16, 2021)

Jose Jeswin said:


> Here is a diy method for making your own grounding cable by gamersnexus........


Ummm, that's a very bad idea. But first, that tutorial is [supposedly! ] to prevent ESDs - electro-static discharges. It is not for establishing a common ground between components to prevent EMI/RFI - which is what is needed here.

Second, what that would do is make a very effective (low resistance) path to Earth ground. That would NOT be good if the idea is to "prevent" ESD destruction because it is the source of the ESD that needs to be grounded - and with computers, that source is typically the user. 

The best solution to prevent damage from ESD is to put you and your computer "at the same potential". This is "best" done simply by the user touching bare metal of the computer case's interior. This immediately establishes a "common" ground between the user and the computer, thus harmlessly discharging any static in the user to the computer's chassis, and if prevent further build up of static in the user's body.

If you establish a near 0Ω resistance path to Earth ground via that modified power cable, you risk the static in your body discharging right through an ESD sensitive device (such as your CPU, GPU or memory modules), torching a Grand Canyon size (microscopically speaking) scorched trench through millions or even billions of transistor gates in those devices.  If you cannot get into the habit of touching bare metal of the case interior BEFORE (and frequently thereafter) reaching in, use a "good" ESD wrist band.


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## Ferrum Master (Jul 16, 2021)

Bill_Bright said:


> Ummm, that's a very bad idea. But first, that tutorial is [supposedly! ] to prevent ESDs - electro-static discharges. It is not for establishing a common ground between components to prevent EMI/RFI - which is what is needed here.
> 
> Second, what that would do is make a very effective (low resistance) path to Earth ground. That would NOT be good if the idea is to "prevent" ESD destruction because it is the source of the ESD that needs to be grounded - and with computers, that source is typically the user.
> 
> ...



Not only that... not all wrist straps have the included 1M resistor in the wire... actually usually there is a grounding distribution box and it resides the resistors for each specific devices you use in your usual EPA zone, and wrist strap itself is without a resistor.

There is no disclaimer about that. Basically that GN article is a potential death trap.

I agree the habit to discharge yourself before doing anything is basically enough for home scenarios. But that's our empirical experience, maybe also because we just don't wear any synthetics also, that holds way more charge.

ESD has no connection to this particular case tho.

I've fought these problems myriad times in the past, and it always came to be the motherboard design especially budget ones. Just swapping to another maker or PCB on the same platform fixed it. Trying to mitigate the issue by improving grounding just drops some dB on the noise floor, but it is still there.

I forgot, there is plan B.

Feeding either the amp or PC from a pure sine based UPS. It also cures it.


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## qubit (Jul 16, 2021)

@Octopuss

You've got some good replies on here, so I won't repeat them. What you're hearing is the raw operation of the computer. It's as annoying as it's fascinating and you'll recognize certain sounds for certain processing tasks, too.

It's a fact of life that all computers emit RF noise due to their high frequency operation (yes, even the old 8-bit computers from the 1980s with their 1MHz CPUs) so it all depends on how well this noise is shielded from the analog side of the sound card. How good this suppression is depends on how good the combination of mobo and sound card are at suppressing it. A ground loop, or poor ground can amplify the problem. Maybe even the design and quality of the PSU can contribute it. It's a tricky thing to design well and suppress.

Tell me, do you hear it at normal volume, or only when the volume is at max? No suppression is perfect, unfortunately. Your only option for guaranteeing to completely eliminating it is to optically isolate an external sound card from the PC with something like S/PDIF and then keep the sound card physically away from the PC, perhaps a metre or so.


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## ShiBDiB (Jul 16, 2021)

Jose Jeswin said:


> Here is a diy method for making your own grounding cable by gamersnexus........you can make a cable yourself and leave it permanently connected with you computer case...
> 
> Gamersnexus DIY



This is some serious overkill neckbeard level stuff


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## Octopuss (Jul 17, 2021)

What annoys me there is noise even when I disconnect all USB devices. Like I mentioned, it's two different noises. 

I'll see if I can find a cheap socket tester somewhere, or I'll ask an electrician to come over and check the house himself, but I am sure the grounding is not a problem otherwise there would be some accidents, fried equipment or whatever over the years.


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## Aquinus (Jul 17, 2021)

Bill_Bright said:


> If you must power from different outlets, run a grounding wire loop connecting each component together to establish a "common ground". Basic 22 AWG "Hookup" wire to a case screw on on the metal chassis of each component case will establish that common ground. Just make sure the screw does not simply go into plastic.


Won't that open the possibility of a ground loop because you're offering multiple paths to ground?


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## Octopuss (Jul 17, 2021)

Someone suggested I buy this https://www.litheaudio.com/spares-and-accessories-all/01589.html
What do you think?


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 17, 2021)

Ferrum Master said:


> There is no fix. It is the mouse doing interrupts and ramping up CPU VRM.
> 
> It is a poor motherboard design. There is no cure for it un less you force everything run on constant maximum without any power saving feature.
> 
> ...


This problem has been around since Audio started being integrated on motherboards. Sound cards was the solution to the emi.


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## micropage7 (Jul 17, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> What annoys me there is noise even when I disconnect all USB devices. Like I mentioned, it's two different noises.
> 
> I'll see if I can find a cheap socket tester somewhere, or I'll ask an electrician to come over and check the house himself, but I am sure the grounding is not a problem otherwise there would be some accidents, fried equipment or whatever over the years.


it looks like your usb controller bring the noise into your sound, btw you use onboard soundcard or external?


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 17, 2021)

Aquinus said:


> Won't that open the possibility of a ground loop because you're offering multiple paths to ground?


Good question. A "ground loop" is the result of current flow between two dissimilar grounds due to a "difference in potentials" from those points to Earth ground. The ground wire connecting all the components actually closes any potential loop by tying the two grounds (from each outlet) together forming a "common" ground to Earth ground. 

If you go to a proper electronics repair facility and look at a workstation, you will often see an anti-static/anti-conductive floor mat, anti-static/anti-conductive pad on the work bench, and the workbench itself all tied together with grounding straps. And the technician then straps all the equipment he or she is working on to that same bench grounding point along with his or her wrist strap. This is to ensure everything, including the technician, are all at the same point and there is no difference in potentials. If no difference, there can be no current flow - no accidental electrocutions. And that's a good thing! 

It should be noted this is rarely a problem in a properly wired house. And it is a bigger problem with high power analog systems - like home theater audio equipment. I saw it in my 60 year old house because 1/2 my house wiring used 2-conductor aluminum wires in metal conduit, and the other1/2 used 3-conductor 1/2 copper. Don't ask me why. I don't know. I do know there was a global copper shortage when the house was built - but I don't know why the previous owners only replaced some of it. We won't get into some of the totally unorthodox plumbing issues I've encountered. 

My first love in electronics is for audiophile quality home audio equipment. When I bought this house 30 years ago, I kept hearing 60Hz hum through my speakers and could see "noise" on my TV. My audio gear was plugged into one wall outlet and the TV, cable box and VCR were plugged into another wall outlet. In my case, I simply ran a small length of hookup wire from a grounding point on my TV to a chassis screw on my audio amp and everything cleared up.


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## Octopuss (Jul 17, 2021)

micropage7 said:


> it looks like your usb controller bring the noise into your sound, btw you use onboard soundcard or external?


Neither. I have Soundblaster card.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 17, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Neither. I have Soundblaster card.


Make sure the cables to your speakers are in good condition, firmly seated in the sockets, and not running along side other cables. If me, I would even swap out those cables (if not hardwired to the speakers - at least temporarily to see what happens.


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## Octopuss (Jul 17, 2021)

The cables are in pristine condition, I even bough semi-expensive thick one for the speakers. Why shouldn't they, they aren't ever touched.
There are only two power cables for the amp and the monitor in the vicinity, plus DP for the monitor. That's all. Speakers are wired with copper cables to the amp. There is likely absolutely nothing wrong in that area.
Besides, the setup hasn't changed for what, three years? And it surely hasn't changed for the past few months since I upgraded the PC. I only noticed the stupid noise last week. Gah.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 17, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Why shouldn't they, they aren't ever touched.


Never assume there can be no factory defect. However, if they worked for 3 years and nothing has changed since, then fine, it likely is not a defect in the cables. 

Any other new nearby electronics? A new TV, for example?


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## Regeneration (Jul 17, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Neither. I have Soundblaster card.


Latency-related problem / defective card / electrical interference from another device on the grid / lack of grounding.

Try the onboard/HDMI audio and see if it appears there too. If not, clean the SB card, try another slot, try another drivers, disable C-states, and check for latency issues.


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## Octopuss (Jul 18, 2021)

So onboard audio does the same noise. Meh.
No latency problems it seems though.


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## Regeneration (Jul 18, 2021)

Try another set of speakers, then try using a live Linux CD/DVD/USB to rule out software/driver issues.

Disable all power saving options in the BIOS for everything (CPU/PCIE/SATA).

Try another outlet in the house that uses different fuse, with another monitor/TV if possible, and unplug all other devices but PC, speakers, keyboard and mouse.

Unplug all internal components like fans, LEDs, drives, and anything ele not required to boot into Windows.

Downgrade BIOS version if possible, and last, put a cardboard below the motherboard.

If nothing helps, replace the motherboard.


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 18, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Neither. I have Soundblaster card.



Turn down windows sound internally, check for latest drivers.

Are there Spread spectrum settings in the bios anymore?


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## Octopuss (Jul 18, 2021)

It does the noise even when I'm in the BIOS, so live CD and related things won't matter.

No such setting in the BIOS as far as I'm aware. Maybe it's an Intel thing.


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## mtcn77 (Jul 18, 2021)

Try modulating sound volume through the speaker's volume knob, not windows menu.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 18, 2021)

Regeneration said:


> Try another set of speakers


Don't you sleep? 

This is what I was going to suggest. If your sound card and your integrated sound both make the noise, you need to determine if the noise is actually originating in the computer, or perhaps there's an issue with the speaker's amplification circuits. 

With your integrated audio enabled, unplug the audio cables and power down your external speakers. Then try some headphones and listen for the noise there. If clean, there may be a grounding issue with the speakers.

Did you create a common ground, as suggested earlier, with a "hookup" wire between the computer case and subwoofer (assuming the electronics are in there)? 



Octopuss said:


> Maybe it's an Intel thing.


No. That's silly. There would be 100s of millions of users complaining then. Its a fault somewhere.


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## TheLostSwede (Jul 18, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> It does the noise even when I'm in the BIOS, so live CD and related things won't matter.
> 
> No such setting in the BIOS as far as I'm aware. Maybe it's an Intel thing.


No, all motherboard have had that since as long as I can remember.


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## Regeneration (Jul 18, 2021)

Bill_Bright said:


> Don't you sleep?



I have a new girlfriend to keep me busy so I don't sleep a lot these days.





Octopuss said:


> It does the noise even when I'm in the BIOS, so live CD and related things won't matter.
> 
> No such setting in the BIOS as far as I'm aware. Maybe it's an Intel thing.



Try the other tips I gave you. USB input causes static audio noise... Try the speakers elsewhere, remove all USB devices and try another mouse.


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## Octopuss (Jul 19, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Try modulating sound volume through the speaker's volume knob, not windows menu.


I thought only lamers do that? The speakers have no controls, I have an amp.
Of course the Windows volume is always at 100%.

There is no subwoofer and the speakers are not powered, and no, I don't have another set, because these things cost like $2000 equivalent and I never had a problem with them in the fours years I've had them


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 19, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Of course the Windows volume is always at 100%.


Of course??? Umm, Lamers? LOL

That may very well your problem. You should not have the "gain" (volume is not the correct term) set to maximum. That does a couple unwanted things. For one, it amplified all the incoming audio, including any noise. For another, it leave no headroom for wanted transients such as the initial power demands when a stick hits a cymbal. If you set any gain control to maximum, you limit the dynamic range of the amplifier circuits - and that can result in increased distortion and noise, and a muffled sound. 

Typically, the only max gain setting should be at the source - that is, in the recording studio.


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## mtcn77 (Jul 19, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> The speakers have no controls, I have an amp.


Gj shooting yourself in the foot. Then, adjust from the amp.


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## moproblems99 (Jul 19, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> This is some seriously weird shit I noticed this several days ago. Barely noticeable high pitched noise coming from the speakers when I move the mouse. I heard about this in past, it's supposedly something to do with electrical interference or something.
> I believe everything is properly grounded (why/how shouldn't it?), and I have standalone soundcard connected to an amplifier.
> 
> When I turn the amp volume all the way to the max, I get permanent cracking noise plus the buzzing when I move the mouse. It also changes when there's load on the CPU I believe.
> ...


Funny you post this. I had this happen for about 30 minutes last night while using a specific VM.  The other vms were fine and my normal host was fine.  It was only using the mouse in this one vm that caused it.  Totally fine today.


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## Octopuss (Jul 19, 2021)

I was always told you're supposed to adjust volume in hardware, not from Windows, the reason being something about quality, so I am doing just that.
Besides, and I repeat this for the last time: I never had any problem until week or so ago, same setup, so it's not something that's been incorrectly set from the beginning.

Found the Spread spectrum in the BIOS btw, it's disabled.

I ordered new shielded cable for the amp. I don't expect it to make a difference since the noise is being generated in the PC, but you never know.

No idea how to make that ground connection someone suggested. What am I supposed to connect the case to again? I don't have a a subwoofer.


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## moproblems99 (Jul 19, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> never had any problem until week or so ago, same setup, so it's not something that's been incorrectly set from the beginning.


It doesn't mean something didn't wear out.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 19, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I was always told you're supposed to adjust volume in hardware, not from Windows, the reason being something about quality, so I am doing just that.


This really makes no sense. Got a link?

Years ago, volume controls were a mechanical device - typically a potentiometer (a variable resister) that controlled the "gain" (amplification) of the audio signal by increasing and decreasing the resistance in that control circuit. They were notorious for getting "dirty" and introducing noise into the audio, adversely affecting the sound quality.

Today, you typically see a digital control device. Many, those that use "knobs" are often evident by the fact you can keep turning and turning them around and around. There are no end-stops. Point is, they are software controlled - just like in Windows.

We always did it that way really is, and really never has been, a good reason to still do it that way. This is particularly true with electronics, and specifically true with digital (software controlled) electronics. In fact, one might even call that a "lamer" excuse!


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## Octopuss (Jul 19, 2021)

Man I am dizzy just reading all this klingon. I just have a PC, a soundcard, a fucking expensive amp and equally expensive handmade speakers. And some noise coming from the PC. That's all I know.

Also the volume setting in Windows is irrelevant to the noise since I can hear that crap even from within BIOS. All I need is to ramp up the amp volume to high volume. The thing also has something called gain volume I don't even want to know what it does.


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## jallenlabs (Jul 19, 2021)

Its electrical noise in your PC, that or a bad ground.  To avoid the issue, get a DAC with optical in and rca out to your amp.  I use Schiit DACs in my set ups.


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## mtcn77 (Jul 19, 2021)

Bill_Bright said:


> They were notorious for getting "dirty" and introducing noise into the audio, adversely affecting the sound quality.


Mine did that, I used to look for a clean point like trying to find a radio channel.


Octopuss said:


> Man I am dizzy just reading all this klingon. I just have a PC, a soundcard, a fucking expensive amp and equally expensive handmade speakers. And some noise coming from the PC. That's all I know.


You need a sound card and that has to be 'active'(expensive) and also connected to the highest pci slot.


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## Octopuss (Jul 19, 2021)

No, I use a sound card.
Jesus.
I am NOT throwing out perfectly fine components.
I need to solve the problem.



mtcn77 said:


> Mine did that, I used to look for a clean point like trying to find a radio channel.
> 
> *You need a sound card* and that has to be 'active'(expensive) and also connected to the highest pci slot.


Why do I even bother posting here when half the people suffer from selective blindness or illiteracy?
Did you even read my posts in the thread?


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## mtcn77 (Jul 19, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> No, I use a sound card.


Is it higher than the graphics card in respect to the motherboard?



Octopuss said:


> Did you even read my posts in the thread


I won't try to help if you don't give feedback.


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## StaticVapour (Jul 19, 2021)

I had similar problem and similar setup few years ago. Got some interesting sound anomalies occasionally, opened a folder, opened program, moved files around... I have "short fuse", so I started to troubleshoot what the heck caused that noise. It took few minutes to find out it was my external HDD at that time, USB powered one to be specific.

When my PC accessed that, it caused interference that I could hear through my speakers. No matter what USB port I picked it made the noise, so I had to change the outlet. I took my PC off the power grid that my amplifier was plugged in and just straight up plugged it to free outlet I had nearby. Never heard that noise again.

Fast forward to this day, I have active studio monitors. These damn things will make noise If I put my phone right next to one, I can hear faint "bzz bzz bzzzzzz bz bz bz.." all the time. It's not like the one you've heard from car radio, caused by mobile phone interference.

So, I recommend you to unplug peripherals that you think are causing the noise, if possible, start moving your stuff from outlet to outlet and separate things like PC and amplifier, monitor and amplifier and so on. How is your analog input by the way? How is it routed?


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 19, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> The thing also has something called gain volume I don't even want to know what it does.


I've been trying to explain it several times now. In amplifiers, the volume is controlled by adjusting the "gain" (amplification) of the audio signal.

Did you try headphones yet?


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## xrobwx71 (Jul 19, 2021)

Bill_Bright said:


> Never assume there can be no factory defect. However, if they worked for 3 years and nothing has changed since, then fine, it likely is not a defect in the cables.
> 
> Any other new nearby electronics? A new TV, for example?


To add to the factory defects, mice, cats, and dogs love to chew on wires.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 19, 2021)

xrobwx71 said:


> To add to the factory defects, mice, cats, and dogs love to chew on wires.


Insects too!


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## Octopuss (Jul 19, 2021)

Bill_Bright said:


> I've been trying to explain it several times now. In amplifiers, the volume is controlled by adjusting the "gain" (amplification) of the audio signal.
> 
> Did you try headphones yet?


Man.
The amplifier has VOLUME and GAIN *BOTH* on its remote. Both affect volume.

I don't have headphones, only those little earbuds that came with my phone. Those are completely useless to pick anything resembling noise up.


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 19, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I thought only lamers do that? The speakers have no controls, I have an amp.
> Of course the Windows volume is always at 100%.
> 
> There is no subwoofer and the speakers are not powered, and no, I don't have another set, because these things cost like $2000 equivalent and I never had a problem with them in the fours years I've had them



Turn down the windows volume


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## Octopuss (Jul 19, 2021)

What exactly will that do for me when the source of the noise is not related to OS?

I had an idea and connected my wife's notebook into the amp, and there's no noise whatsoever, so it's something in the damn PC. Not very helpful but at least I confirmed the audio setup is fine.


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## mtcn77 (Jul 19, 2021)

eidairaman1 said:


> Turn down the windows volume


Can we argue this? I'd do the opposite. Increase windows volume and decrease amp volume, gain whatever...


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## TheLostSwede (Jul 19, 2021)

Did you try enabling spread spectrum in the UEFI? It's supposed to reduce EMI.


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## Operandi (Jul 19, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Man I am dizzy just reading all this klingon. I just have a PC, a soundcard, a fucking expensive amp and equally expensive handmade speakers. And some noise coming from the PC. That's all I know.
> 
> Also the volume setting in Windows is irrelevant to the noise since I can hear that crap even from within BIOS. All I need is to ramp up the amp volume to high volume. The thing also has something called gain volume I don't even want to know what it does.


Nice speakers.  I also find it funny that when I translated the page with Edge it listed the woofer as "super secret bass player".



mtcn77 said:


> Can we argue this? I'd do the opposite. Increase windows volume and decrease amp volume, gain whatever...


To my knowledge you want max volume in software otherwise you just compressing the source dynamic range.  Though I think its less of an issue with starting with Windows 8 due to whatever changes MS made to software audio engine in Windows.

Either way it can't be the issue because the problem exists outside of Windows


TheLostSwede said:


> Did you try enabling spread spectrum in the UEFI? It's supposed to reduce EMI.


This makes sense as to why a BIOS update would be responsible for hte change.  Would be really interesrting if this was the cause.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 19, 2021)

TheLostSwede said:


> Did you try enabling spread spectrum in the UEFI? It's supposed to reduce EMI.


I just have.
Absolutely no difference at all.


----------



## mtcn77 (Jul 19, 2021)

I don't want to go into psu rating system. ITHD is a hard benchmark to learn, but a couple years back every bad psu purchaser used to argue with me on this.
If you want quality, you pay top dollar for flight deck grade electronics.








						Brand new 5000$ Ryzen 3950x build ruined by incredibly annoying sound!!! Please help troubeshoot...
					

Hello guys.  I'm on the verge of having an nervous breakdown. Been spending so much time doing proper a-z research, creating spread sheets, compairing hardware, reading reviews, watching YouTube videos, you name it, for over 6 months in order to feel 100% secure in building my own rig for the...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jul 19, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Man.
> The amplifier has VOLUME and GAIN *BOTH* on its remote. Both affect volume.


Well, RTM! But I would assume the Gain adjusts the amplitude (gain) of the signal coming out of the preamp stages and going in to the finals of the amp. And Volume adjusts the gain of the final amplifiers - the output to the speakers.

The headphones (earbuds) are what I am suggesting you use on the headphone jack of your soundcard (or computer case) to see if noise is there too.


----------



## TheUn4seen (Jul 19, 2021)

If it's a constant buzz, you have a ground loop. If it's crackling dependent on usage and such, this is a floating ground problem. Both are quite common in computers which are a very electrically noisy environment.
First, connect the computer case and the amp with a length of wire. Don't rely on the grounding coming from the wall socket, it's designed to protect you from being killed by the washing machine, not to be a clean grounding point for audio equipment, also, computer parts are not referenced directly to it. It will help with the first problem, but the floating ground is more tricky. The easiest way is to electrically separate the amp from the source, i did this by using the optical output from the sound card to a DAC with an optical input. This completely eliminates any grounding problems you might have, but is not cheap. You can also get an USB sound source and a galvanic isolator - there are quite a lot of them available as "usb to usb isolator", IFI makes good, small ones, but they're quite expensive.

The thing is, computers are horrible electrically. The ground of your sound output is very much different than any other ground around you. It's galvanically isolated at several stages, first the PSU, than the motherboard and then the soundcard itself, and you have all the switchmode supplies around it, which means a lot of induced noise. Manufacturers try to mitigate the problem, but with so much current floating every which way and being turned on and off hundreds of times per second in a modern PC it's not an easy task.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jul 19, 2021)

TheUn4seen said:


> First, connect the computer case and the amp with a length of wire.


This has already been suggested. In fact, several things have been suggested but there's no indication they were tried.  So not sure any of us can be of any help.


----------



## Regeneration (Jul 19, 2021)

If the noise is effected by mouse movements then its USB or motherboard EMI problem.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jul 20, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> What exactly will that do for me when the source of the noise is not related to OS?
> 
> I had an idea and connected my wife's notebook into the amp, and there's no noise whatsoever, so it's something in the damn PC. Not very helpful but at least I confirmed the audio setup is fine.



Because it is a fix, you let the speakers do the work not windows.



Regeneration said:


> If the noise is effected by mouse movements then its USB or motherboard EMI problem.



Its a problem that needs to be reported to board makers, this problem has been around since AT and ATX boards implementing onboard audio


----------



## looniam (Jul 20, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I was always told you're supposed to adjust volume in hardware, not from Windows, the reason being something about quality, so I am doing just that.


what? no.

NOOOO. it definitely depends on the set up. if i set 100% then anything past ~45% on my amp volume starts distorting horribly and clipping the drivers. it is for me soooo much easier setting hardware to 100% and keeping windows under ~55% w/media keys.

btw, the signal chain does get processed via windows/drivers; anything along the chain can screw it up for the next guy.  line level is a thing . . been so long i can't give much/all the details.


----------



## Operandi (Jul 20, 2021)

looniam said:


> what? no.
> 
> NOOOO. it definitely depends on the set up. if i set 100% then anything past ~45% on my amp volume starts distorting horribly and clipping the drivers. it is for me soooo much easier setting hardware to 100% and keeping windows under ~55% w/media keys.
> 
> btw, the signal chain does get processed via windows/drivers; anything along the chain can screw it up for the next guy.  line level is a thing . . been so long i can't give much/all the details.


The logic behind setting the software volume (OS or program) to max or near max has to do with preserving dynamic range.  Windows supposedly has range of -96-0 dBA so if you set your volume super low at the OS level you are compressing the dynamic range of the source and thats something you can never get back (its the start of the audio process).  Think of it like a recording for mixing; if you did a shitty job and recorded everything at really low level and then tried to boost the gain at the mixing stage to a normal level its going to sound like garbage because all the detail from the quietest part of recording to the loudest isn't there and there is no way to get it back.

I don't think its much of a problem anymore though as I think modern Windows OSs do a bunch of resampling to preserve that dynamic range.  Kinda hard to get good solid information on it though, Google just turns up a bunch of garbage.


----------



## looniam (Jul 20, 2021)

Operandi said:


> The logic behind setting the software volume (OS or program) to max or near max has to do with preserving dynamic range.  Windows supposedly has range of -96-0 dBA so if you set your volume super low at the OS level you are compressing the dynamic range of the source and thats something you can never get back (its the start of the audio process).  Think of it like a recording for mixing; if you did a shitty job and recorded everything at really low level and then tried to boost the gain at the mixing stage to a normal level its going to sound like garbage because all the detail from the quietest part of recording to the loudest isn't there and there is no way to get it back.
> 
> I don't think its much of a problem anymore though as I think modern Windows OSs do a bunch of resampling to preserve that dynamic range.  Kinda hard to get good solid information on it though, Google just turns up a bunch of garbage.


again windows is not the only link in the signal chain. that supposed -96 to 0 dBA is to compensate for the gain of the input, which can and does vary among apps/software let alone hardware.

ie line levels vary greatly:




like i said it varies for config to config.


----------



## Operandi (Jul 20, 2021)

looniam said:


> again windows is not the only link in the signal chain. that supposed -96 to 0 dBA is to compensate for the gain of the input, which can and does vary among apps/software let alone hardware.
> 
> ie line levels vary greatly:
> View attachment 208851
> like i said it varies for config to config.


Yeah, I'm not saying you wrong, just stating the reason why you don't want a super low source volume, or at least didn't in the past.  It shouldn't be but line level from the source can be problem too but probably only if you are mixing consumer and pro gear.  Anyway, I don't think the low source volume is really a problem with modern software and certainly not the problem here so I'll stop derailing the OPs thread.


----------



## looniam (Jul 20, 2021)

Operandi said:


> Yeah, I'm not saying you wrong, just stating the reason why you don't want a super low source volume, or at least didn't in the past.  It shouldn't be but line level from the source can be problem too but probably only if you are mixing consumer and pro gear.  Anyway, I don't think the low source volume is really a problem with modern software and certainly not the problem here so I'll stop derailing the OPs thread.


no you're not wrong either. but on the flip side too much signal will cause distortion and clipping if the gain of the next component (such as an amp) is too high (or as i like to think of it: too sensitive).

like you i don't wanna . . cause a problem but i really do think it won't hurt for the OP just try moving the slider. i mean it should be easy peasy, no?


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2021)

So what am I supposed to do, grab a random wire and connect the PC case and the amp case or what?
Too many replies here.


----------



## mtcn77 (Jul 20, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> So what am I supposed to do, grab a random wire and connect the PC case and the amp case or what?
> Too many replies here.


Change psu. Select a higher grade one this time. 0-5% ITHD has lower noise than 5-10%, 10-15% and 15-20% respectively.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2021)

lol this IS higher grade PSU.

No idea what ITHD means.


----------



## mtcn77 (Jul 20, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> lol this IS higher grade PSU.
> 
> No idea what ITHD means.


Altq q thread.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2021)

What the hell are you talking about? Either stop writing in riddles or don't post here at all.


----------



## mtcn77 (Jul 20, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> What the hell are you talking about? Either stop writing in riddles or don't post here at all.


You have not paid attention. It is your problem at this point what you do with your hardware. Don't expect miracles.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2021)

Half the people in this thread didn't pay attention to shit I wrote up to three times in a row ffs!

I still have no idea what ITHD means and you didn't explain that once, and no, the linked thread doesn't explain it either.
I am not buying a new soundcard, I am not buying new speakers, I am not buying fucking anything new unless I find out something is broken or faulty, which doesn't seem likely.
This is my PSU and I have no idea what that means. It's 80+ Gold, which means it's good and that's all I care about. Prove me it's causing the problem and I might start looking into alternatives.

Someone suggested I connect the PC case to the amp somehow in relationship to grounding and I wasn't explained how exactly was I supposed to do that.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2021)

No it's not, I am not registered anywhere and simply opened it.


			https://clearesult5.sharepoint.com/:b:/s/PLS/ERuKFSP6pABLkq_zbiRIjKEBvIxbIQBmLHiRcrLQo6oIPg
		

Mayb this works.


----------



## looniam (Jul 20, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Half the people in this thread didn't pay attention to shit I wrote up to three times in a row ffs!
> 
> I still have no idea what ITHD means and you didn't explain that once, and no, the linked thread doesn't explain it either.
> I am not buying a new soundcard, I am not buying new speakers, I am not buying fucking anything new unless I find out something is broken or faulty, which doesn't seem likely.
> ...


get yourself a decent wire, got any old lamps around? just something decent enough.
strip some insulation off (duh) and loosen one of the four screws on the back of the psu, then use the other end and find a screw on the amp chassis that looks to be "biting in metal" and do the same. (yeah wrap a little wire around the screw.)

the goal is to have the screw copper wire contacting as much metal as possible.

feel me?


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2021)

Yep.
So basically connect the cases just like I thought at first.


----------



## spanjaman (Jul 20, 2021)

Auer said:


> Try switching you amp power to a different circuit than your computer.
> 
> Optical is a good suggestion, so is casting over wifi.


As Auer said, you should try switching to another circuit then your PC. Just to break down where is the cause of this noise. Could help you narrow it down.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2021)

I have just tried that. The cracking and mouse buzz noises are gone, but there's different constant noise now, but at least it seems to be related to something else. 
I'll try buying different PSU to see if it makes any difference.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 20, 2021)

Maybe try one of these first? It's a much cheaper thing to buy.





						Amazon.com: RF Choke 31500 Ferrite Filter Core Material 31 Mix ID 1/2" 13mm : Electronics
					

Buy RF Choke 31500 Ferrite Filter Core Material 31 Mix ID 1/2" 13mm: Noise Filters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com


----------



## Auer (Jul 20, 2021)

spanjaman said:


> As Auer said, you should try switching to another circuit then your PC. Just to break down where is the cause of this noise. Could help you narrow it down.





Octopuss said:


> I have just tried that. The cracking and mouse buzz noises are gone, but there's different constant noise now, but at least it seems to be related to something else.
> I'll try buying different PSU to see if it makes any difference.


Try unplugging appliances in your house too, I had a friend that worked in a radiostation and one day they had a new "Hum" thru the studio monitors.
After 3 days they tracked it down to a new PC 3 floors down.

As both an "audiophile" and former stage tech I learned to hunt things down first by simply eliminating things before I throw money at filters (mostly garbage) and new componenets (mostly unnecessary).


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2021)

TheLostSwede said:


> Maybe try one of these first? It's a much cheaper thing to buy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's an interesting thing. Probably worth a shot.


I have just accidentally discovered something.
I have my PC plugged in an UPS and the amp in the same (double) socket.
When I disconnect the UPS from the socket, the noise instantly goes away, so it must be the PC sending some crap into the "network". Same thing when I connect the amp to a different circuit. The other (new) noise is gone then too.


----------



## Auer (Jul 20, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> That's an interesting thing. Probably worth a shot.
> 
> 
> I have just accidentally discovered something.
> ...


Try plug  in your PC without the UPS. Remove the UPS completely. Cheaper ones can cause hum, because of the battery and charger circuits.
Edit: A powerstrip/surge protector can cause hum too.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2021)

Auer said:


> Try plug  in your PC without the UPS. Remove the UPS completely. Cheaper ones can cause hum, because of the battery and charger circuits.
> Edit: A powerstrip/surge protector can cause hum too.


That's one of the first things I tried. No change.


----------



## Ahhzz (Jul 20, 2021)

So, fellow members.... Some of you in this thread are a bit... hostile. Please tone it down, and rethink approaches, from all sides. Anyone who continues at any point, to respond in an overly aggressive mood, will find their future participation in the thread removed. 

Take a breath, take a step back, and then try again, with a little less...venom . Tons of useful information in this group! You people are *smart*., Just sometimes have a bit of an issue interacting without being condescending heheh. Thanks!


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2021)

I could sit at the 80plus database for half a year and still not get through all the pages, and there's no guarantee a PSU with low "ITHD" would even make a difference.
This is just pointless.


----------



## mtcn77 (Jul 20, 2021)

10%.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2021)

Yep I can read too. That's my PSU.
Everything I found in the db (that's currently on the market) thus far ranged from 10 to 20+


----------



## mtcn77 (Jul 20, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Yep I can read too. That's my PSU.
> Everything I found in the db (that's currently on the market) thus far ranged from 10 to 20+


Not my problem, if I can hear the same noise in my 5% THD Seasonic, so can you. No need to play coy.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jul 20, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Half the people in this thread didn't pay attention to shit I wrote up to three times in a row ffs!
> 
> I still have no idea what ITHD means and you didn't explain that once, and no, the linked thread doesn't explain it either.
> I am not buying a new soundcard, I am not buying new speakers, I am not buying fucking anything new unless I find out something is broken or faulty, which doesn't seem likely.
> ...


Ok put a bond wire from the case to a ground on the amp, and from the motherboard to the case.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2021)

I did the case-amp part, no change (I think I already wrote that).
The mb is already screwed to the case so no need for that.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jul 20, 2021)

Operandi said:


> The logic behind setting the software volume (OS or program) to max or near max has to do with preserving dynamic range.


NO! Preserving the dynamic range is the logic to set the volume somewhere in the middle, not maxed out. Also, distortion levels tend to be higher when levels are maxed out and components risk being overdriven. 

What happens when the input level of the audio coming into the OS software control is already at or near the maximum level? You have already depleted any headroom you might have had and you risk introducing even more distortion. 

"IF" sound were digital from beginning to end, none of this would likely matter. But sound is analog. Period. It starts out as analog and it hits our ears as analog. In fact, there is no such thing as digital sound. While you can certainly max out a digital audio signal and not affect dynamic range or distortion (if done properly), that signal must ultimately be converted back into analog. And that's where you need the dynamic range and minimum amounts of distortion. Or else, high fidelity it is not.


----------



## Operandi (Jul 20, 2021)

Bill_Bright said:


> NO! Preserving the dynamic range is the logic to set the volume somewhere in the middle, not maxed out. Also, distortion levels tend to be higher when levels are maxed out and components risk being overdriven.


None of this maters with modern software because of up sampling before its output but from a _logical _perspective if you have a range of -96 to 0 dba anything "-" is cutting down the dynamic range of the source, you'll never get it back its gone forever.  Modern OSs take care of that though so you don't loose quality, so yeah whatever I guess.

Now if the audio driver is boosting beyond 0dba at max volume then yeah you could run into clipping but thats shit software then, it shouldn't be doing that.  Basically its like *looniam *said, it depends on the setup.

Old Superuser discussion for further reading.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 22, 2021)

The ferrite thing didn't do anything.
I clipped it on the power cable directly in front of the PSU.


----------



## InVasMani (Jul 23, 2021)

Try a ferrite core on the mouse cable itself near the USB end connecting to the PC input. My mouse came with one on it, but I'm not so certain they all do. Is it all devices connected to that USB port or just the mouse? 

You can also in your MB bios try enabling spread spectrum as well which reduces RF.


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 23, 2021)

Try plugging the amp in the UPS too, or changing the polling rate of the mouse up or down.


----------



## InVasMani (Jul 23, 2021)

For starters try to isolate and narrow down the problem itself better. Sometimes just the speaker wire placement itself can pickup interference from other devices like a power strip. That isn't always the case, but has been known to happen. Try a different USB port itself as well if possible. Also try asking Alexa to stop causing a mic feedback loop with it's covert embedded hardware.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 23, 2021)

It's not caused by the mouse.
I already wrote that before.
Spread spectrum was discussed here as well.

Come on, try reading past first and last posts in a thread


----------



## InVasMani (Jul 23, 2021)

Keep calm and try turning it off and on again. Didn't work try to pin down the problem diagnosing possible issues that could cause problems. You might try some of the following examples below. I can understand the frustration, but don't get upset at me or others that I didn't read thru 4 pages of discussion while trying to provide possible things to check with your original post description. If it was already discussed fine ignore it and try something else that comes along that wasn't.

Try different USB ports and/or disabling USB ports in device manager.

Various bios settings like FCLK/FSB or spread spectrum.

If it's a discrete add in card PCI/PCIE try re-seating the card also make sure the card is securely fastened a loose screw and the pins not making good contact could cause issues.

Check amp/speaker connectors SPDIF/RCA/banana plugs all of it on both ends ensuring they aren't loose somewhere either same thing.

Volume level and gain level can be entirely separate and different things less gain more volume for a cleaner louder signal.

Possibly try message signaling interrupts and check IRQ to ensure two devices are competing for the same one can be very important with audio.

Something as simple as unplugged mic cable end touching another part can cause hum. If you aren't using a mic I'd recommend just disabling it in sound control panel.

Ensure the ample works properly in the first place outside of the PC system.

Check if the PC systemis the source of the problem. If it is narrow down which part of the system it's coming from by narrowing down possibilities that aren't the problem.

If the speakers are part of the system ensure they aren't the problem could be a loose connection at one end or another.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 27, 2021)

After digging in the 80plus website's results for about two days, I bought this Seasonic PSU, assuming it would help with the low noise parameter, but it's exactly as bad as before, so I just give up. This is absolutely untraceable.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jul 27, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> After digging in the 80plus website's results for about two days, I bought this Seasonic PSU, assuming it would help with the low noise parameter, but it's exactly as bad as before, so I just give up. This is absolutely untraceable.
> View attachment 210022



It's your motherboard man


----------



## Ahhzz (Jul 27, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> After digging in the 80plus website's results for about two days, I bought this Seasonic PSU, assuming it would help with the low noise parameter, but it's exactly as bad as before, so I just give up. This is absolutely untraceable.
> View attachment 210022


Hate it for you man. Some of these are absolute bears to sort out. I know it's annoying as crap. Stupid question, do you still get the noise when you mute the audio?


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 27, 2021)

I forgot to mention I also bought a different brand motherboard along with the PSU and basically moved the basic components over. It's still buzzing.

I guess I will try to get some electrician over here to test the electrical installation in the entire house.

(It's buzzing even when nothing is playing, so yes, and it does that even when I'm in the BIOS)


----------



## Operandi (Jul 27, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I forgot to mention I also bought a different brand motherboard along with the PSU and basically moved the basic components over. It's still buzzing.
> 
> I guess I will try to get some electrician over here to test the electrical installation in the entire house.
> 
> (It's buzzing even when nothing is playing, so yes, and it does that even when I'm in the BIOS)


I haven't read every post but you said you use a Soundblaster card, did you try a USB DAC?  Getting the audio pipeline outside of noisy PC is a good idea in general.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 28, 2021)

Nope, and it's not a solution I would use even if it worked. I like my SB's quality.


----------



## Operandi (Jul 28, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Nope, and it's not a solution I would use even if it worked. I like my SB's quality.


Thats an odd stance.  There are plenty of USB DACs that smoke anything that Soundblaster makes in terms of quality.


----------



## dir_d (Jul 28, 2021)

Think what you want from this but I basically had the same thing happen as you while on the Desktop and it was louder while gaming. I was on an EVGA 1080TI and last week i picked up a FE 3080TI and now the noise is gone even while gaming.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 28, 2021)

Operandi said:


> Thats an odd stance.  There are plenty of USB DACs that smoke anything that Soundblaster makes in terms of quality.


I already bought the card and am not looking forward to spending more money.
Besides, there's than a DAC to a soundcard, no?


----------



## Operandi (Jul 28, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I already bought the card and am not looking forward to spending more money.
> Besides, there's than a DAC to a soundcard, no?


Well do you want the noise gone?  

Yeah, there is a DAC in your SB, everything that has audio output has a DAC but that dosn't make them equal.  Thats like saying a Porsche 918 and a Toyota Camry are the same thing because they both have tires.  A external DAC is purpose built to provide the cleanest possible output, and having it outside of the noisy EM environment that is a PC goes a long way to that goal just by itself and might solve your problem.  Get something basic like a Behringer UCA202, they are like $30 and probably pretty comparable to your SB anyway.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 28, 2021)

Well, I am no audio expert, but I doubt $30 DAC sounds just as good as $150 card.

But that aside, considering I use the card with stereo speakers and have direct mode enabled, I likely am not using anything more than its DAC anyway.


----------



## Operandi (Jul 28, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> Well, I am no audio expert, but I doubt $30 DAC sounds just as good as $150 card.
> 
> But that aside, considering I use the card with stereo speakers and have direct mode enabled, I likely am not using anything more than its DAC anyway.


Yeah, maybe / probably not, but an external DAC does a lot less feature wise than a soundcard so in terms of 2 channel audio quality your $$$ goes further.  Regardless though the idea is try an external device that isn't having to contend with the EM noise inside your PC since EM interference is the root of the problem.


----------



## InVasMani (Jul 28, 2021)

You should try the on-board audio could help narrow down if the problem is tied to the AE-5 in some way or if it's the amp. Beyond that you might try swapping the PCI/PCIE slot of the audio card if you didn't already attempt that. There are a few reason behind that bad slot, IRQ problems, and interference from another nearby device.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 28, 2021)

Jesus, I'm not going to repeat everything I wrote here five friggin times just because someone is repeatedly lazy to read the posts.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jul 28, 2021)

get a 4 way adapter that has spike protection etc. plug it into the output of the ups, plug PC into the 4 way.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 29, 2021)

I think I will just buy a DAC - just not sure what. I mostly listen to metal and play games, that's it.
I was thinking about https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/eur/en/products/hi-fi/dacmagic/dacmagic-200m, but it's a little more expensive than I'd prefer.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jul 29, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I think I will just buy a DAC - just not sure what. I mostly listen to metal and play games, that's it.
> I was thinking about https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/eur/en/products/hi-fi/dacmagic/dacmagic-200m, but it's a little more expensive than I'd prefer.


What about this-


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 29, 2021)

That looks too cheap to me.


----------



## Aquinus (Jul 29, 2021)

I use one of these. It drives my Sennheiser HD 380 Pros pretty well. Being small, it's pretty portable and can run on battery should you want to use it with your phone or tablet.





						Amazon.com: Fiio E17K ALPEN 2 USB DAC Headphone Amplifier : Electronics
					

Buy Fiio E17K ALPEN 2 USB DAC Headphone Amplifier: Multichannel Amplifiers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jul 29, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> That looks too cheap to me.


so i guess performance does not matter. whatever


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jul 29, 2021)

You are aware that Creative makes USB connected options too, right?





						Sound Blaster - Creative Labs (United States)
					

Sound Blaster internal & external DAC and amp sound cards for PC, laptop, PS5, PS4, Nintendo Switch, Xbox, and mobile phones. Ideal for gaming & home entertainment. Free shipping on orders over US$35.



					us.creative.com


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 29, 2021)

I wouldn't trust anything with gaming sticker on it.



Gruffalo.Soldier said:


> so i guess performance does not matter. whatever


The price tag just feels way too low. And no, I don't judge quality based on price, but this is just weird. It's also a small box that looks more like a DAC for headphones.
I haven't seen any in-depth review. The screenshot only claims "lots of detail", which sounds like something copied from product comments section on Amazon.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Jul 29, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I wouldn't trust anything with gaming sticker on it.
> 
> 
> The price tag just feels way too low. And no, I don't judge quality based on price, but this is just weird. It's also a small box that looks more like a DAC for headphones.
> I haven't seen any in-depth review. The screenshot only claims "lots of detail", which sounds like something copied from product comments section on Amazon.


What hifi is a very reputable site, if they say it's very good, it's very good








						About What Hi-Fi?
					

What Hi-Fi?, founded in 1976, is the world's leading independent guide to hi-fi and home entertainment products




					www.whathifi.com


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## Operandi (Jul 29, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I wouldn't trust anything with gaming sticker on it.
> 
> 
> The price tag just feels way too low. And no, I don't judge quality based on price, but this is just weird. It's also a small box that looks more like a DAC for headphones.
> I haven't seen any in-depth review. The screenshot only claims "lots of detail", which sounds like something copied from product comments section on Amazon.


Don't fall into the audiophile trap of spending more $$$ is going to get a perceived improvement in quality.  If you want something from a reputable audio brand I'd just get the Cambridge 100m.


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## Octopuss (Jul 30, 2021)

I was actually looking at 200M. Too bad you can't buy it second hand since it's fairly new.


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## Operandi (Jul 30, 2021)

Octopuss said:


> I was actually looking at 200M. Too bad you can't buy it second hand since it's fairly new.


Yeah, I saw that you were, thats why I suggested the 100.  Cause you know, the whole audiophile thing about spending more = its gosta be better thing.

I'm not saying your speakers can't resolve the difference between a DAC like 100 and the 200 but even if they could you'd have to sit there and listen back to back and split hairs to tell one from the other.  Put the money aside and save it even better speakers someday would be my suggestion.


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## Post Nut Clairvoyance (Jul 30, 2021)

TLDR: for me _reduce mouse polling rate_ significantly improves inductor buzzing.

If it was a problem with VRM's of either CPU or GPU, I've had a case of buzzing noise with mouse movement. I tore apart my PC and built the minimal (mobo, CPU, GPU(my CPU has no iGPU), RAM, SSD and PSU) build and placed motherboard on a chair, I then tried to source the origin of the noise, either CPU, GPU or PSU. The sound almost definitely came from the GPU, as little sense as that makes since mouse inputs by USB signal. I still think its GPU rather than the CPU VRM, as I had put my ear near it to track the source. 
As I were having PC placed elsewhere for testing I used a cheap office mouse and realized it did not make same noise, so I switched to another cheap surveillance unit mouse which also made no noise. Checked their polling rate, were both 125. Switched to gaming mouse, both gaming mouse I own, a TT black v2 and a G502 wireless had buzzing sound. Switched to 500 polling from 1k reduced the buzzing significantly and it was no longer bugging me, unless I take close listen. 250 would reduce it a bit more but is still audible at zero range and 125 would make the mouse feel garbage, so I settled for 500 which had the biggest impact. Once case was on I no longer have any noise issue (my ears are very sensitive).


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## Octopuss (Jul 30, 2021)

There is a slight chance it might be caused by GPU indeed, but I don't have the covid luxury of having more than one, lol.
(and it's not mouse related in my case, the buzz is there even with all USB devices disconnected)

Speaking of DACs, I've also been looking at Schiit Modius. It looks good and has just about the right price even new. It's not available in Europe right now though.


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## Octopuss (Aug 7, 2021)

Why is nothing easy?
After some research, I decided to give Schiit a shot, but suure, it's impossible to get it in Europe, and buying from the U.S. is nonsense due to fees and no warranty.


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## Octopuss (Aug 13, 2021)

So as a test, I bought the most expensive DAC I could find in one of the usual PC eshops I use, the Topping D70S, and after roughly matching the volume of the inputs on the amp I can safely say the $150 SB AE-5 sounds exactly the same as $750 DAC, so I call bullshit on all the audio snake oil.


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 14, 2021)

Operandi said:


> Thats an odd stance.  There are plenty of USB DACs that smoke anything that Soundblaster makes in terms of quality.


Not true...


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## jimokee (Jan 10, 2022)

I noticed it a while ago but here's the thing. It still does  it even without power source plugged in. so what's that. 
THAT'S WRONG. ACTUALLY, In my case I found out right after the post that the high pitch was coming out of the mouse I was using, it was a wired cheepo.


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## Octopuss (Jan 10, 2022)

I will likely buy Schiit Bifrost 2 if/when I have that much extra money to spend without regrets, but only because of the electric isolation.
Barely important positive side effect of that would be no extra card in the PC and no useless apps/drivers.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Jan 10, 2022)

My wishlist DAC is the Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt


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## Yrd (Feb 8, 2022)

I have recently been a victim of this issue and my first thought on solving it was a ground loop isolator. I didn't go through this entire thread, was a ground loop isolator ever tried? They are pretty cheap devices. 

I use a ground loop isolator in my vehicle. It has a very basic old style head unit for a radio. It has a 3.5" jack that I use to listen to my phone while plugged into a usb charger in the cigarette lighter jack. While it's plugged into power there is heavy static and this ground loop isolator eliminates it.

I can't try mine as I'm not near this vehicle that uses that isolator. On amazon USA they cost $10-$20.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 8, 2022)

Yrd said:


> I have recently been a victim of this issue and my first thought on solving it was a ground loop isolator. I didn't go through this entire thread, was a ground loop isolator ever tried? They are pretty cheap devices.
> 
> I use a ground loop isolator in my vehicle. It has a very basic old style head unit for a radio. It has a 3.5" jack that I use to listen to my phone while plugged into a usb charger in the cigarette lighter jack. While it's plugged into power there is heavy static and this ground loop isolator eliminates it.
> 
> I can't try mine as I'm not near this vehicle that uses that isolator. On amazon USA they cost $10-$20.


A dedicated soundcard fixes it as well.


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## Octopuss (Feb 9, 2022)

eidairaman1 said:


> A dedicated soundcard fixes it as well.


No it doesn't. Not in my case at least. It makes sense, doesn't it? It's connected to the same power sources.

Ground loop isolator seemed to make it go away, but I returned it, thinking it could be potentially be degrading sound quality. I have an electrician come over today to check the circuits.


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## ThaiTaffy (Feb 9, 2022)

Why not just buy a cheap dac media converter and use spdif to cut out the ground issue between your amp and pc?


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## Jose Jeswin (Feb 10, 2022)

Did you try changing your pc power cord?...i had a pinched cord jammed against my case causing static thro my speakers...once i changed the cord, the static interference was gone..


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