# EK rads compared to Black Ice or something else...



## phill (Jul 28, 2020)

Hey guys

The reason I'm asking a question about the rads is kinda simple...  I've been trying to hunt through some radiator reviews from TPU, I've found the original Black Ice one I was after, The GTR (named after one of my most favourite cars ever... but I digress) and then I saw a review on the Corsair XR7 Right here which showed off a good few radiators but for the life of me, I was wondering if TPU might have had a review on the 360mm rad from EK??  

@VSG who reviewed the rads (top reviews by the way!!) I kinda hoped might have done one simply because I'd like to see a direct comparision..  Reason?  Well, price to performance if I'm honest.

Before two children happened (lol) going for something like the GTX or GTR rads, getting 2 or 3 at once and then the pumps, tubing, barbs etc. etc. I wouldn't have battered an eye lid at, but now looking at things slightly differently, I was just very interested in the performance difference between the EK rad and the GTX for example.  I think the GTR might before benchmarking which I don't do as such anymore but with how amazing these rads are at cooling, well, there's always a chance 

Thing is, I can grab an EK 560 rad, for about a £110 (maybe a bit under) but the GTX/GTR 560 rad, is something closer to the 180/190 mark each.  Now for the price, I'm curious if there's really that much difference between the two, because if there is, then screw it, I'll buy a few.  But if there's not and there's a few degree's of temp different between them, then I'm happy and I'll walk away with nearly £200 spare in my pocket instead 

Has anyone compared these two rads at all from their personal experience?   Should I be looking for something else for my loop?   Appreciate the help as always guys


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## ThrashZone (Jul 28, 2020)

Hi,
Only ek rads worth considering are PE or XE series they are supposed to have a newer style without to square box around the core like hardware labs rads are like have not seen any though.
I'm sure you were referring to these old reviews 








						Hardware Labs Black Ice Nemesis GTR 360 Radiator Review
					

Hardware Labs has been a mainstay in the PC DIY watercooling industry for over 15 years now, with an emphasis on radiators for different needs. Today, we take a look at the new Nemesis GTR 360 for those who want the best possible thermal dissipation performance from their radiators.




					www.techpowerup.com
				












						HardwareLabs Nemesis 360 GTX Radiator Review - Page 6 of 6 - ExtremeRigs.net
					

HardwareLabs Nemesis 360 GTX Radiator Review - hardware labs, koolance, ek, xspc, xs-pc, aquacomputer, watercool, water cooling, black ice, liquid cooling




					www.xtremerigs.net
				



GTS series for low speed fans.


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## VSG (Jul 28, 2020)

phill said:


> Hey guys
> 
> The reason I'm asking a question about the rads is kinda simple...  I've been trying to hunt through some radiator reviews from TPU, I've found the original Black Ice one I was after, The GTR (named after one of my most favourite cars ever... but I digress) and then I saw a review on the Corsair XR7 Right here which showed off a good few radiators but for the life of me, I was wondering if TPU might have had a review on the 360mm rad from EK??
> 
> ...



You went from comparing 120 mm size rads to 140 mm size rads lol. Based on your interest in 560 mm radiators, I will just leave this here: http://thermalbench.com/2017/02/07/hardware-labs-black-ice-nemesis-gtr-560-radiator/5/


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## phill (Jul 28, 2020)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Only ek rads worth considering are PE or XE series they are supposed to have a newer style without to square box around the core like hardware labs rads are like have not seen any though.
> I'm sure you were referring to these old reviews
> 
> ...


I am indeed   The thing is the 560mm rad I'm looking at from EK are only available in the CE range, I think it's down to the size of the rad that it's is limiting to..  

The GTX and GTR rads are amazing but they cost nearly double the money and whilst I love performance, I'm not sure I'll notice that few degrees which is why I'm holding back off of buying them..  But also why I'm asking here just in case   I've some fans already that I've got picked out, I need to track down one more of each as I've 3 3000rpm fans and 3 2000rpm fans and whilst I won't be running them at max speeds, I'd like to see if there would be a massive difference anyways at those speeds 



VSG said:


> You went from comparing 120 mm size rads to 140 mm size rads lol. Based on your interest in 560 mm radiators, I will just leave this here: http://thermalbench.com/2017/02/07/hardware-labs-black-ice-nemesis-gtr-560-radiator/5/


Apologies   The 560mm rads are for my rig, but the 120/360mm rads are just for a comparision/review purpose..  I'm not sure many places reviewed 560mm rads so figured comparing 360 v 360 might have been the best option 

(Sorry should have mentioned that )

The Thermalbench site is another great site and then I looked at who did the review @VSG ......  Should have known really the amount of times I've read that review!!


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## Fry178 (Jul 28, 2020)

Since your running ryzen, most of the time heat transfer from the cpu is the bigger problem,
and one reason im close to custom kits with a 280 aio (18 gal/h pump) for 3700/2080S and throttled fans.
your looking at least at about 100$ (XPCS Pro etc) and up before it will actually make a difference.

part why i decided to get the eisbaer and have something ready to use, but still allows for extension/add ons/replacement,
and has a full copper rad.

420


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## phill (Jul 28, 2020)

The heat is a pain due to the size of the CPU and everything crammed into it.  That said, I'm currently on air cooling, I've been able to lower the vcore down to 1.00v on the CPU with it still boosting to 4.20GHz, temps under a WCG full load over the 24 threads are pretty impressive, 50C to 60C depending on the temp.  I think this morning it was hitting 53/54C before I left for work? 
I've also got to prep for an Intel rig but more on that one when I get it through...  Currently it's over with my best mate in the US....

I'd love to hope that water cooling, even with the system being exactly the same, I'd be hopefully 10C lower under load if not a bit more...  But when I can finally get the water cooling, I'm going to test it to find out.  It's just getting the best I can for the money and not buying things twice, as that really grinds my gears


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## Fry178 (Jul 28, 2020)

Oh sure, i just realized i can spend 3 times what i did for the aio,
only to see marginal improvement on temps, and probably madenit even less using LM (instead of TP).

Having the heat being dumped outside the case by a rad (vs inside and the air cooler re-breathing hot air) is the biggest improvement for temps, no matter what is actually used..


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## kapone32 (Jul 28, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> Oh sure, i just realized i can spend 3 times what i did for the aio,
> only to see marginal improvement on temps, and probably madenit even less using LM (instead of TP).
> 
> Having the heat being dumped outside the case (vs inside and the cooler re-breathing hot air) is the biggest improvement for temps, no matter what is actually used..



The Alphacool Eisbear is great. In my opinion (especially the 420) they are the best price/performance AIOs you can buy.


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## Fry178 (Jul 29, 2020)

Not only that, but i can expect the pump to last longer, it can be throttled (most asetek designs cant because of large manufacturing variances),
and can refill/flush/replace coolant like on a kit/custom loop, so i wont go back "wasting" time on a custom loop to gain maybe 5*C..
And even if something fails, even with replacement of the whole AIO, im still not spending more than a (proper) custom loop would.

Well, maybe when i have the funds to build a glass desk housing pc/cooling inside a (clear) drawer.


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## phill (Jul 29, 2020)

I'll let you guys know, I'm hoping to be very bad and order some parts up very soon....    Here goes nothing!!

Going to be ordering....

CPU Block
Pump and Res combo
Tubing - I was hoping to get white but....
Rad - For now!

I need to track down another fan as I've 3 but quad rad would kinda look stupid with only 3 fans on it...   I think that's it!!


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## phill (Jul 31, 2020)

VSG said:


> You went from comparing 120 mm size rads to 140 mm size rads lol. Based on your interest in 560 mm radiators, I will just leave this here: http://thermalbench.com/2017/02/07/hardware-labs-black-ice-nemesis-gtr-560-radiator/5/


I was just wondering @VSG, did you ever review the GTS line of rads at all?  I've sadly not been able to get my discount on the EK rads, so I'm just wondering if the GTS line of rads would be a good shout?  Also, what is the difference in the review between the Black Ice Nemesis and the 'standard'  Black Ice rads?

The GTX/GTR rads are massively impressive, the only problem is, there's literally only a few degrees temperature between the worst rads and the best..  I guess only the person buying one could decide whether or not £100 per rads compared to £175 per rad is worth the 2 to 4C of difference........


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## ThrashZone (Aug 1, 2020)

Hi,
Like I said before GTS is designed for low speed fans so depends what you're doing.
OC'ing in general is not a quiet sport


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## phill (Aug 1, 2020)

I have a fan controller which I can slow the fans down, I have the Noctua models at the moment to hand, I did wonder about the EK Vadar models but I think the Noctua seemed a better fan..  I'm not after a completely silent PC, but if I'd like to give it some beans and turn it up, I'd like to know that the rads I have aren't going to give me heat soak etc.  which I'd hope is hard work from a quad 140mm rad....


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## ThrashZone (Aug 1, 2020)

Hi,
To give you an idea here
GTX240 is better than an ek 280CE
How much  better well not much but better none the less  
Plus hardware labs rads are more conventional construction than ek's with their frame and two piece ports adding yet another possible leak.


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## phill (Aug 1, 2020)

For the slimmer models of radiator, they are actually cheaper than EK models that I've found.  However, you put GTX in front of it instead of GTS, and the price goes crazy....





I was toying with the idea of white rads, but without stock, that's not going to help progress the build very quickly...  I do however, wonder if they do a white version in the GTR...  I'd like to give the build I'm doing a little more colour..  Black everything is a little dull....


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## ThrashZone (Aug 1, 2020)

Hi,
lol thickness my man it doubles on GTX


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## VSG (Aug 1, 2020)

phill said:


> I was just wondering @VSG, did you ever review the GTS line of rads at all?  I've sadly not been able to get my discount on the EK rads, so I'm just wondering if the GTS line of rads would be a good shout?  Also, what is the difference in the review between the Black Ice Nemesis and the 'standard'  Black Ice rads?
> 
> The GTX/GTR rads are massively impressive, the only problem is, there's literally only a few degrees temperature between the worst rads and the best..  I guess only the person buying one could decide whether or not £100 per rads compared to £175 per rad is worth the 2 to 4C of difference........



Yeah, I've covered the Nemesis GTS rads too. They are more restrictive to coolant flow than just about any other radiator, but it's a good value. Look at the Nemesis LX if you want a more affordable version of the Nemesis GTX. 

Nemesis is just the newer version of the older Black Ice GTX/S rads.


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## phill (Aug 1, 2020)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> lol thickness my man it doubles on GTX


That's what she said.....



VSG said:


> Yeah, I've covered the Nemesis GTS rads too. They are more restrictive to coolant flow than just about any other radiator, but it's a good value. Look at the Nemesis LX if you want a more affordable version of the Nemesis GTX.
> 
> Nemesis is just the newer version of the older Black Ice GTX/S rads.


How do the Nemesis LX Compare to the GTS/GTX rads @VSG ?   I got a feeling I could be going just for the GTX rads...  It's just a shame they don't do them in white.....


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## VSG (Aug 1, 2020)

phill said:


> That's what she said.....
> 
> 
> How do the Nemesis LX Compare to the GTS/GTX rads @VSG ?   I got a feeling I could be going just for the GTX rads...  It's just a shame they don't do them in white.....



Nemesis LS/LX is the OEM version of the Nemesis GTS/GTX, with slightly worse performance and better flow restriction/case compatibility. Look at the Bitspower Leviathan and Corsair radiator reviews here for more information on them, but basically Nemesis LX slots in between the GTS and GTX for pure performance.


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## phill (Aug 1, 2020)

Many thanks @VSG for the heads up and information   Perfect   So I think I've done right by ordering the rads today...  I'll get some pics up shortly when I've got everything through


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Aug 1, 2020)

phill said:


> I have a fan controller which I can slow the fans down, I have the Noctua models at the moment to hand, I did wonder about the EK Vadar models but I think the Noctua seemed a better fan..  I'm not after a completely silent PC, but if I'd like to give it some beans and turn it up, I'd like to know that the rads I have aren't going to give me heat soak etc.  which I'd hope is hard work from a quad 140mm rad....


Ek carder fan's are pretty good, high Static pressure, good flow ,low noise, sturdy build.
Noctua are still said and tested to be better but it's not a large gap.
I use a 360 thin ISH coolstream ek rad and a thicker 360x60 mm Ek one, can't recall it's name but they're both still on sale.
They're good except I'm not sold on the screws or seats but most rads are shit in this department, hard to find screws for ,they supply some but only the usual just enough.


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## ThrashZone (Aug 1, 2020)

Hi,
I have four ek valdar fans only two work and I'm not even using them butugly.


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## John Naylor (Aug 1, 2020)

1.  I have not seen an AIO yet that doesn't bust one of the two main rules for water cooling ..

1st Rule - Never mix metals
2nd rule - 1.0 gpm minimum
3rd rule - rad fans always blow in, no exceptions.    This is a topic I used as an example when I taught engineering thermodymics.  It simple... a) you want to cool ya rad with outside 23C air or coolit with inside 28C air ?  b) what component inside your PC is bothered by 18C air    c)  putting a 240 - 560  rad as exhaust almost always means that you have negative case pressure ... which means you are sucking the hot exhaust from your 300 watt GFX card and 750 watt PSU right back into your case.   d) There's a reason why even AIO manufacturers, include this in their instructions.







2.  Static pressure was a big thing in the 90s when rads were 30 fpi ... todays rads with 8 - 14 fpi do not need hi SP fans.

Test bench: 420 x 45mm + 280 x 560m rads,  dual pumps, (2) rad inlet cooalnt temp sensors (2) rad outlet coolant temp sensors, 1) Ambient temp sensor, (1) case interior air temp sensors. (6) Channel digital temp display, Fog machine

Using the above with peak 680 watt load, standard pressure fans never break 650 rpm in gaming 825ish under tress testing.  Delta T (ambient / coolant) in stress testing = 8.7C ... temp drop across rads = 0.5 under light load (no fans spinning) to aboit 1.6 - 1.8C at 800 - 825 cfm


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## Caring1 (Aug 2, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> View attachment 164227


The written text in that diagram does not follow the schematic shown, please stop spreading misinformation.  
Clearly something was lost in translation, but they can't misinterpret a diagram showing the correct direction of flow, from internal to external.


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## Fry178 (Aug 2, 2020)

@*John Naylor*
really gets annoying you still try this crap.
i mean you cant even see the picture you posted EXHAUSTING the heat by blowing out (unless the fans are running reverse)..

1. alphacool/EK/arctic want more?

2. i have a 280 aio, added the 280S (full block incl vrm/vram) and a 18 gal/h pump (*0.3 gal/min*) that i throttled to about 50-70% depending on load).
temps are 33-36*C on idle (3700x) and 29*C for the gpu, while all fans run at 300/500 rpm (1200/800 rpm max),
under game load i have 40-50 spiking to maybe 60*C on cpu (4K with maxed out IQ), and 40-50*C on the gpu.
this all with PBO on, and thee 2080 clocking at 2-2.1 and 8.7ghz on ram with maxed out power/voltage, and fans dont go full speed until 75*C (rad) 80*C (case) and room about 23*C.

Guess im not from this planet and can circumvent physics  

3. ek shows aio setup as exaust
    arctic aio,setup as exhaust
    alphacool, aio, setup as exhaust

how about this:
use OCCT in "max power" mode and list temps for cpu/vrms/chipset/gpu and drives,
one with the (cpu) set as intake and then again with it as exaust.
now look at the numbers fro ANYTHING but cpu, and tell me that the intake is running gpu/vrms/chipset and drives cooler
(hint: more relevant for gamers, than 5*C lower cpu temp).
right...


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