# PC doesn't power down after holding power button for 4 seconds



## HTC (Jul 11, 2017)

Not even for much longer then 10 seconds.

This is my sister's PC, which is a Llano PC with a single HDD, 1 DVD drive and it uses Windows 7 x64 : she doesn't game and that PC is more then enough for her needs.

Unfortunately, it's "acting" finicky and now, after BSODing (i don't recall the exact error, so i can't search that), it didn't restart as it should so i tried powering down the PC forcefully by pressing power button for 4 seconds but that doesn't work @ all: had to remove the power cord for the PC to shut down.

I thought the problem might be the HDD and was planning to do a full diagnostic but this power issue makes me think the problem is elsewhere. Tried searching but didn't come up with anything similar.

Anyone heard of this?

EDIT

Seems fixed: hopefully, for good!

Unrelated ... how can i change the topic title by adding "(fixed) to the end of it?


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## Jetster (Jul 11, 2017)

Holding the power button is not the proper way to power down. It's a hard power off on some but not all PCs (just like pulling the power cord)
Pushing it one time should power it down. Just as the start/shut down does from the desktop (does it power off from the desktop?)

List the complete specs. If its the hard drive you can check the smart data
Sometime a PC will hang on shutdown from programs that lock up


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## Folterknecht (Jul 11, 2017)

Might be a BIOS setting that is off


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jul 11, 2017)

Could be the switch


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## therealmeep (Jul 11, 2017)

How much you wanna bet it aint plugged in?


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## HTC (Jul 11, 2017)

Jetster said:


> Holding the power button is not the proper way to power down. It's a hard power off on some but not all PCs (just like pulling the power cord)
> Pushing it one time should power it down. Just as the start/shut down does from the desktop (does it power off from the desktop?)
> 
> List the complete specs. If its the hard drive you can check the smart data



This is the 1st time i'm aware of a PC (with a fully working power button) that, when pressed for 4 seconds, doesn't power down. Isn't this OS independent?

- it has this board (still have the BIOS download page in favorites)
- Samsung spinpoint F3 1TB HDD
- GSkill F3-12800 CL9Q-16GBZL (4*4GB sticks)
- PSU Corsair CX 500M
- onboard GPU
- LLano A8-3850 CPU
- Windows 7 x64 professional



CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Could be the switch



Not the switch: thought of that and already ruled that out.



Folterknecht said:


> Might be a BIOS setting that is off



Had checked the BIOS the previous day and nothing seemed off. My memory of this BIOS is a bit off (this board was in my old computer about 4 years ago) but everything seemed to check out.


The PC is acting strangely lately. While typing (anywhere), the active program changes often and it gets really *really* annoying when you're typing and, suddenly look @ the screen only to notice half of what you wrote isn't there ... and the HDD is "working" all the time, which made me think of a virus but AVG didn't report any. A closer inspection of task manager and resource monitor showed "svchost" with around 500 MBs usage but i couldn't figure out which program exactly was causing the high HDD usage.

Was actually planning to do a full Windows re-install later this month but this issue ... i figure i need to get to the bottom of it before continuing: may have a hardware issue i'm not aware of.


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## Jetster (Jul 11, 2017)

HTC said:


> This is the 1st time i'm aware of a PC (with a fully working power button) that, when pressed for 4 seconds, doesn't power down. Isn't this OS independent?
> 
> -



It is OS dependent to power off on a single push. If the OS power options is set too power off on the power button. Does not require to hold the button (this is a reset option when held)

So your settings in in the Windows power options not the BIOS


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## infrared (Jul 11, 2017)

Yup, the hard power off is motherboard/bios not OS.


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Hard locks wont respond just by tapping the switch as that setting commands windows to shut down. Holding the switch should force a hard shutoff. If it does not, a finniky power switch or board fault/ psu issue could be cause.


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## Jetster (Jul 11, 2017)

So you want it to shutdown or hard power off?

I was thinking he wants it to shut down from the power button


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## HTC (Jul 11, 2017)

infrared said:


> Yup, the *hard power off* is *motherboard/bios* not OS.



Anyone ever heard of this one not working?

Because that's what i'm talking about: the PC BSODed and then blocked (instead of restarting like "normal"). I tried a 4 second power down but that didn't work, which is quite odd and indicates a potential hardware problem, i think.

Since then, i took the PC to my room for inspection but i forgot a "small detail": the monitor doubles as a TV screen and is currently in use. My monitor doesn't have VGA nor DVI so i can't hook it up to her PC.

Will have to get another monitor to troubleshoot this and that could take a while ...


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 11, 2017)

HTC said:


> Anyone ever heard of this one not working?
> 
> Because that's what i'm talking about: the PC BSODed and then blocked (instead of restarting like "normal"). I tried a 4 second power down but that didn't work, which is quite odd and indicates a potential hardware problem, i think.
> 
> ...



Clear cmos first then test.


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## HTC (Jul 11, 2017)

Hadn't thought of that: will do.


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## Sasqui (Jul 11, 2017)

HTC said:


> Anyone ever heard of this one not working?



The power button on a PC is temporary push switch.  It makes contact as long as you hold the button down.  Quick press and release triggers a smart relay on the MB to turn on or off, depending on default or OS state, such as cold on, sleep on, turn off, sleep off, etc.  Holding the button down for a long time is a default hardware power kill switch.  If it's not working, suspect the MB.  Reset the BIOS is a good suggestion, but prolly won't work.


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 11, 2017)

Only other solution is to use the reset switch as a power switch.

Clear cmos is just to ensure all is at defaults, helps determine hardware or software fault.


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## qubit (Jul 12, 2017)

HTC said:


> This is the 1st time i'm aware of a PC (with a fully working power button) that, when pressed for 4 seconds, doesn't power down. Isn't this OS independent?


Yup, it's hardware based with no sofware override that I've ever heard of. As it doesn't work I suspect that the mobo is faulty.

Try the following:

1 To absolutely rule out the switch (I know you said it works, but still it could be intermittent) remove the power switch leads from the mobo and touch them together with a screwdriver and hold for 4-6 seconds.
2 If that doesn't work, disconnect everything but the bare minimum for it to boot and show a picture eg one RAM stick, no HDD/ODD etc and try again. If that still fails you likely have a bad mobo.

How old is the PC?


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## HTC (Jul 12, 2017)

Sasqui said:


> The power button on a PC is temporary push switch.  It makes contact as long as you hold the button down.  Quick press and release triggers a smart relay on the MB to turn on or off, depending on default or OS state, such as cold on, sleep on, turn off, sleep off, etc.  Holding the button down for a long time is a default hardware power kill switch.  *If it's not working, suspect the MB*.  Reset the BIOS is a good suggestion, but prolly won't work.



Suspect t's a hardware problem but it could be something other then motherboard, which is why i asked if anyone ever heard of this type of thing, since searching didn't yield results.



eidairaman1 said:


> Only other solution is to use the reset switch as a power switch.
> 
> Clear cmos is just to ensure all is at defaults, helps determine hardware or software fault.



My sister had called me earlier in the day and, when i said to her to press the power button and hold for 4 seconds, she told me she had tried that with no results, which i found quite odd: she then couldn't start the PC.

When i arrived, i tried starting the PC and it went to Windows ... seemed OK for about 15 minutes ... then it BSODed ... so i powered it down for 4 seconds and it worked. Started the PC again but this time it didn't reach Windows and BSODed before entering, and that's when it hung and power down didn't work: that's why i know the power button isn't the problem. After that, i couldn't start the PC, which is why i took it with me.



qubit said:


> Yup, it's hardware based with no sofware override that I've ever heard of. As it doesn't work I suspect that the mobo is faulty.
> 
> Try the following:
> 
> ...



The PC's board, CPU, RAM, monitor and HDD are about 5.5 years old: maybe a bit older. Case is about 8 years old or so. Those were once in my computer. The PSU, keyboard, mouse, OS are about 1.5 years old: maybe a bit older.

I usually try doing that with the screwdriver to start the PC when the mobo is not in the case but i never tried to hold the contact for that long: i'll try to do that once i get a monitor to test.

Correct me if i'm wrong but i can reset CMOS right now, right? I just need to hit the CMOS contacts using the screwdriver with the PC connected to the wall but not turned on, right?


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 12, 2017)

Find out the bsod, sounds like a memory issue or Windows is messed up.

Clear cmos means taking the jumper off the cmos header and putting on the other pins.

Look at your motherboard manual.


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## HTC (Jul 12, 2017)

eidairaman1 said:


> Find out the bsod, sounds like a memory issue or Windows is messed up.
> 
> *Clear cmos means taking the jumper off the cmos header and putting on the other pins.*
> 
> Look at your motherboard manual.



It has no jumper: only 2 pins.

After checking the manual, it says it must be done with the PC not hooked up to the wall.

I have no jumper but shorting the pins with a screwdriver should do the trick, no?


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 12, 2017)

HTC said:


> It has no jumper: only 2 pins.
> 
> After checking the manual, it says it must be done with the PC not hooked up to the wall.
> 
> ...



It should, just its safer to have a jumper block, you have the clrcmos jumper pins which is good.

(Im used to cmos jumpers having 3 pins vs 2)


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## MrGenius (Jul 12, 2017)

You can also just remove the battery for a minute. If that's any easier.


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## HTC (Jul 12, 2017)

MrGenius said:


> You can also just remove the battery for a minute. If that's any easier.
> View attachment 90105





eidairaman1 said:


> It should, just its safer to have a jumper block, you have the clrcmos jumper pins which is good.
> 
> (Im used to cmos jumpers having 3 pins vs 2)



Found a jumper from my previous board (before this Ryzen system): used that, so no need to remove the battery.

Now, just have to wait until i get a monitor that i can use. Will probably just take the PC back and test it there using the monitor / TV, but have to wait several hours before i'm able to do that.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 12, 2017)

I've seen this before, if you have a spare switch you can test with, something newer and better quality, plug it in and try to duplicate the issues. Assume its the case switch contacts if you cant.


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## Sasqui (Jul 12, 2017)

HTC said:


> I have no jumper but shorting the pins with a screwdriver should do the trick, no?



Yes, and you can also test the power switch by shorting the two power pin headers as well.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 12, 2017)

HTC said:


> This is the 1st time i'm aware of a PC (with a fully working power button) that, when pressed for 4 seconds, doesn't power down. Isn't this OS independent?





Jetster said:


> It is OS dependent to power off on a single push.


*No, it is NOT OS dependent!* This is an "ATX" function and is established in the BIOS Setup Menu and will be shown in your motherboard manual. It does not matter what OS you have installed. It can be Windows, DOS, or Linux.

The "ATX" default is to power off after holding for 4 seconds. There are usually 2 or 3 options you can set in the BIOS for this and the other two are Immediate off and Suspend or something similar. In my Gigabyte manual, this option is called "Soft-Off by PWR-BTTN" and there are two options, "Instant-Off" and "Delay 4 Sec".

As for the switch itself, if it turns on your computer, the switch is fine. If shorting the two pins turns on the computer but pressing the power switch does not, the switch is bad, or disconnected. What I often do if bad is swap the wires going to the motherboard with the Reset button switch. Then just use the Reset button from then on.


Edit comment: fixed typo.


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## HTC (Jul 12, 2017)

Update!

So i hooked up the PC to my sister's monitor / TV and went to BIOS to load defaults. Windows loaded just fine after that: so far no problems.

Checked event viewer but it only showed errors like these: could this be a PSU problem?

The PC case is a bit too close to the furniture so i think it may be a problem with the power cable not being properly plugged in to the PSU causing bad contact, maybe: i placed the case a bit further away just in case so that the cable isn't so twisted.


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## qubit (Jul 12, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> As for the switch itself, if it turns on your computer, the switch is fine. If shorting the two pins turns on the computer but pressing the power switch does not, the switch is bad, or disconnected. What I often do if bad is swap the wires going to the motherboard with the Reset button switch. Then just use the Reset button from then on.


Although not very likely, it is just possible that the switch is intermittent, so it could contact momentarily when held in to trigger a normal Windows shutdown, but then not maintain that connection solidly for the whole 4 seconds. This is why I suggested touching the contacts with a screwdriver, to rule out this possibility.

Also, afaik the 4 second off is not controlled by the BIOS, the PC switches off no matter what. That BIOS power configuration refers only to momentary presses.


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## HTC (Jul 12, 2017)

qubit said:


> Although not very likely, it is just possible that the switch is intermittent, so it could contact momentarily when held in to trigger a normal Windows shutdown, but then not maintain that connection solidly for the whole 4 seconds. This is why I suggested touching the contacts with a screwdriver, to rule out this possibility.
> 
> Also, afaik the 4 second off is not controlled by the BIOS, the PC switches off no matter what. *That BIOS power configuration refers only to momentary presses.*



That has always been my understanding of it: similar to how you can do the same in Windows, right?


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 12, 2017)

Ok so it seems stable now with a clear cmos, clean all dust out if the case, reapply tim on cpu, try setting xmp on the memory. Keep track of the steps and last thing you did. If it crashes again its possible, ram, psu or  mobo cant handle the operating speeds, ensure you have the correct ram voltage too, some motherboards don't set it via xmp.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 12, 2017)

HTC said:


> could this be a PSU problem?


That error basically shows that you pulled the plug to kill power instead of "gracefully" shutting down Windows and the computer through the start menu.



qubit said:


> Although not very likely, it is just possible that the switch is intermittent, so it could contact momentarily when held in to trigger a normal Windows shutdown, but then not maintain that connection solidly for the whole 4 seconds. This is why I suggested touching the contacts with a screwdriver, to rule out this possibility.


Intermittent is quite possible. Case fans will pull dust through the tiny gaps around the switch and that can create an intermittent situation. And if the switch is worn, or has been pressed too hard and is damaged, the return tension can become weak and cause an intermittent situation too. So your advice to check by shorting the two pins was sound advice.



qubit said:


> Also, afaik the 4 second off is not controlled by the BIOS, the PC switches off no matter what. That BIOS power configuration refers only to momentary presses.


 Once again, that is an ATX Form Factor design feature. Did you look in your own motherboard manual to see if yours is configurable via the BIOS Setup Menu? Many motherboards provide options to change how that switch works. 

Yes, it does switch off no matter what - but the logic (programming) behind it is set in the BIOS/chipset. Otherwise, how would you be able to power on and off without a boot drive connected or before any OS is installed? Remember, the switch is not connected directly to the PSU.


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## HTC (Jul 12, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> *That error basically shows that you pulled the plug to kill power instead of "gracefully" shutting down Windows and the computer through the start menu.*
> 
> Intermittent is quite possible. Case fans will pull dust through the tiny gaps around the switch and that can create an intermittent situation. And if the switch is worn, or has been pressed too hard and is damaged, the return tension can become weak and cause an intermittent situation too. So your advice to check by shorting the two pins was sound advice.
> 
> ...



Except it was 3 times, according to event viewer: happened once to my sister and twice to me, all on the same day. That said, the plug was pulled "only" twice.


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 12, 2017)

HTC said:


> Except it was 3 times, according to event viewer: happened once to my sister and twice to me, all on the same day. That said, the plug was pulled "only" twice.



Hey man read my last message and see if you concur.


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## HTC (Jul 12, 2017)

eidairaman1 said:


> Hey man read my last message and see if you concur.



Just put it @ stock, as per BIOS defaults, after clearing CMOS.

Didn't re-apply TIM and didn't touch any voltages, but cleaned the case a bit: wasn't really dirty, anyway.


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 12, 2017)

HTC said:


> Except it was 3 times, according to event viewer: happened once to my sister and twice to me, all on the same day. That said, the plug was pulled "only" twice.


A sudden loss of power can give the same result. As eidairaman1 notes, many hardware failures can cause such a result. In fact, such shutdowns can occur so quickly, Windows does not even have time to write an error. 

I am not a fan of reapplying TIM because TIM does not go bad and need replacing UNLESS the cured bond is broken. It can easily last 10, 15 years or longer. Even if it dries out, the solids that remain are doing their job. TIM is only in a liquified state so it can be squeezed out of tube and evenly spread out. IMO, the risk of ESD or pin damage due to accidental mishandling is too great. And besides, your symptoms are not heat related. 

I do agree to make sure all your clock speeds and voltages are at the defaults and I see you just did that so that is good. I think it is "hurry up and wait" now to see if problem returns.


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## HTC (Jul 12, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> A sudden loss of power can give the same result. As eidairaman1 notes, many hardware failures can cause such a result. In fact, such shutdowns can occur so quickly, Windows does not even have time to write an error.
> 
> I am not a fan of reapplying TIM because TIM does not go bad and need replacing UNLESS the cured bond is broken. It can easily last 10, 15 years or longer. Even if it dries out, the solids that remain are doing their job. TIM is only in a liquified state so it can be squeezed out of tube and evenly spread out. IMO, the risk of ESD or pin damage due to accidental mishandling is too great. And besides, your symptoms are not heat related.
> 
> I do agree to make sure all your clock speeds and voltages are at the defaults and I see you just did that so that is good. *I think it is "hurry up and wait" now to see if problem returns.*



Apparently, the PC has been having some issues but she said nothing and, since i don't use her PC, i had no idea.

I've told her many times: if something is not working properly, then *complain about it*!!!! If she doesn't, how am i supposed to know since i don't use it?

My niece does the same thing: i got a mail from the cable company last month stating that they would be changing the channel numbers as well as some channels of the TV cable for TVs without the box. She said nothing so i thought her TV model handled it internally. Yesterday i asked her and she casually said "the TV isn't working" ... right ...


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## Bill_Bright (Jul 12, 2017)

HTC said:


> I've told her many times: if something is not working properly, then *complain about it*!!!! If she doesn't, how am i supposed to know since i don't use it?


That's the story of my life. I typically hear about a problem at 10PM when my kid or grandkid has some important school project that has to be submitted by midnight!


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 12, 2017)

HTC said:


> Apparently, the PC has been having some issues but she said nothing and, since i don't use her PC, i had no idea.
> 
> I've told her many times: if something is not working properly, then *complain about it*!!!! If she doesn't, how am i supposed to know since i don't use it?
> 
> My niece does the same thing: i got a mail from the cable company last month stating that they would be changing the channel numbers as well as some channels of the TV cable for TVs without the box. She said nothing so i thought her TV model handled it internally. Yesterday i asked her and she casually said "the TV isn't working" ... right ...



Set the xmp as well, ensure voltages are set properly. If it starts crashing you may have a ram or mobo issue...


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## HTC (Jul 17, 2017)

Update:

So far, it seems it's OK: @ least, she hasn't complained ...

Thanks to all that helped with the troubleshoot!


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 17, 2017)

As long as it isn't something weird and doesn't tell you. By the way did you set the ram back to its specified clock rate?


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## jaggerwild (Jul 17, 2017)

Its over heating season, over 5 years old smmh.


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## HTC (Jul 18, 2017)

eidairaman1 said:


> As long as it isn't something weird and doesn't tell you. *By the way did you set the ram back to its specified clock rate?*



I did not: left the RAM as detected by the BIOS, with everything on auto. Only disabled the 1394 port and the splash screen IIRC.

She doesn't use the PC very often so any problems may take a longer time to present themselves.


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## HTC (Sep 2, 2017)

So her PC decided to start not booting ... so i took it apart and switched the mobo + CPU for my old one (AsRock fatality Killer FM2A88X+ + A107850K APU, which were fine when i took them out from my own PC, when i switched to my current Ryzen system).

And the PC decided to do the same thing ... not boot and then not turn off by holding the power button for over 4 seconds.

Could this be a PSU problem? Something else?


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## Deleted member 163934 (Sep 2, 2017)

Check with another PSU, a known working one. If it still does the same start it with only one ram stick (basicaly only the cpu+mb+ 1 ram module). If it still does the same use another ram module in another ram slot.
If it works with cpu+mb+1 ram module add the ram modules one by one. If everything works ok add the hdd also. If it start doing the same after adding a ram module or the hdd, the last one added is causing the problems.

If with a known working psu, the "new" mb and every ram modules + ram slots combinations it still show the problems described i'd start to think it's the cpu.
It's a bit hard for me to belive that all the ram modules/slots have gone bad in same time, or that 2 mb have gone bad. Not impossible but the chances are really low.

I had a loose ram slot in my father pc that was causing similar problems and I had a Samsung spinpoint F3 512GB that after 6 months of being used in a mb with uefi bios has started to hang the boot process (wasn't showing anything, was hanging with random bios codes), fail to load windows (changing cables or sata ports had no effect), I never figure our what happened with the hdd because it happy works without any problems in an older not UEFI mb but is causing problems now in the 2 UEFI mb that I have.


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## HTC (Sep 2, 2017)

thedukesd1 said:


> Check with another PSU, a known working one. If it still does the same start it with only one ram stick (basicaly only the cpu+mb+ 1 ram module). If it still does the same use another ram module in another ram slot.
> If it works with cpu+mb+1 ram module add the ram modules one by one. If everything works ok add the hdd also. If it start doing the same after adding a ram module or the hdd, the last one added is causing the problems.
> 
> If with a known working psu, the "new" mb and every ram modules + ram slots combinations it still show the problems described i'd start to think it's the cpu.
> ...



Unfortunately, i don't have another PSU, with the exception of the one powering my own system.

I didn't switch the RAM but i did switch both the board as well as the CPU. Both were running in my own system up until when i upgraded to my R5 1600.

Haven't tried my old RAM (used hers): should i do that?


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## Deleted member 163934 (Sep 2, 2017)

HTC said:


> Haven't tried my old RAM (used hers): should i do that?



Try this but only with 1 stick. And check each memory slot on the motherboard if it still show the problems.

I still think you should try to use another PSU.

If in the "new" mb, with the "new" ram and with the another psu it still does the same I'd look at the cpu. Maybe bended pins. I had a sempron 145 with a bended pin that it fit just fine in the socket and it was working, just not seeing half of the ram (i suspected the ram but it was basicaly not seeing half of the ram slots), i removed the cpu visual inspected it i failed to see the bended pin, only when I used a paper between the pins raws i noticed the bended pin (now i use the paper every time i remove a cpu with pins on it), unbended the pin and problem vanished.


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## HTC (Sep 2, 2017)

thedukesd1 said:


> Try this but only with 1 stick. And check each memory slot on the motherboard if it still show the problems.
> 
> I still think you should try to use another PSU.



Perhaps i can get a hold of a spare one but i'm unsure if i'll be able.

Will do as suggested, after i wake up: worked the night shift and haven't slept yet.


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## Deleted member 163934 (Sep 2, 2017)

I edited the post after you replied. If you move the cpu in the other mb look for bended/missing pins.

L.E.: I said about the Samsung spinpoint F3, because I had 2x 512 GB 1 end up rma and I got a Seagate (installed new windows, everything fine for 2 days, 3rd day data corruption at boot, tested on 3 mb with 3 distinct psu not same model, 6+ sata cables, windows & linux the problem was the same over and over) and the other one after some months started to refuse to work properly on 2 mb but it works in the 3rd without problems.
The Seagate is basicaly a spinpoint f3 and based on how it acts I think in less than 1 year it will start doing problems... They all show the same pattern... My bet is that something breaks on the hdd board and some sata controlers have a higher tolerence to errors (the 2 uefi mb have sata 3 while the not uefi one has sata 2).


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## HTC (Sep 2, 2017)

Apparently, the RAM is the problem: reduced the RAM speed from 2400 (my RAM speed) to 1600 (her RAM speed) and now it boots every time ... right ... forgot to reset BIOS to defaults ... right ... brilliant move ... right ...

Will leave memtest running all night to check for errors with the kit (4 * 4 GB sticks kit)

That said, it still *sometimes* doesn't power off by pressing the power button for 4+ seconds.

Unfortunately, i can't switch her RAM just yet because it has my old NH-C12P cooler on it i my old RAM is too high for that cooler and, since i've seem to have misplaced all my stock cooler retention brackets, i can't swap to that cooler instead just yet.


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## HTC (Sep 3, 2017)

UPDATE:

The RAM didn't give any errors @ 1600.

Currently installing Windows 7's updates.

The damn power button still doesn't shut down sometimes after holding it for 4+ seconds: i'm guessing it's an issue with the button or cable leading to the board since it's the 2nd board it does this with.

Since her RAM doesn't have any problems, i'll leave it in her PC instead of having to swap coolers to be able to change the RAM.


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## Aquinus (Sep 3, 2017)

The only time I've experienced the power button not working after a hard crash is when DRAM is unstable.


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## HTC (Sep 3, 2017)

Aquinus said:


> The only time I've experienced the power button not working after a hard crash is when DRAM is unstable.



Memtest+ 5.01 ran for 2 full passes (that took over 5 hours): zero errors.

I wanted to take out 1 of the kit's sticks to get it's specs for post #48 and, instead of shutting down i restarted by mistake. Tried to shut down before starting windows but the power button didn't work so i had to shut down the PSU to do it.

It did this with previous board too, and now does with this one: the problem is not the board, then. So it's either the button or the cord leading the button's signal to the board, right?


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 3, 2017)

HTC said:


> The damn power button still doesn't shut down sometimes after holding it for 4+ seconds: i'm guessing it's an issue with the button or cable leading to the board since it's the 2nd board it does this with.


Understand that "4 second" delay is set in the BIOS. It can be changed to Instant off or Reset.

But since this is the 2nd motherboard, I would look at the switch. Assuming the two wires are connected to the proper 2 pins on the motherboard, it is likely the switch. You need to gain access to the back side of the front panel and inspect it. The switches can break or the clamp holding the switch in place can break or come loose. If the clamp/bracket holding the switch in place is loose, it can sometime be bent back in place. But if broken, what we have done many times here is pull the two wires from the motherboard and connect the two wires from the case's Reset button to the motherboard pins. Then use the Reset button as the power switch from then on.


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## HTC (Sep 3, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> Understand that "4 second" delay is set in the BIOS. It can be changed to Instant off or Reset.
> 
> But since this is the 2nd motherboard, I would look at the switch. Assuming the two wires are connected to the proper 2 pins on the motherboard, it is likely the switch. You need to gain access to the back side of the front panel and inspect it. The switches can break or the clamp holding the switch in place can break or come loose. If the clamp/bracket holding the switch in place is loose, it can sometime be bent back in place. But if broken, what we have done many times here is pull the two wires from the motherboard and connect the two wires from the case's Reset button to the motherboard pins. Then use the Reset button as the power switch from then on.



The odd thing is that the power button itself works just fine as it turns on the PC every time: it's just when holding for 4+ seconds that doesn't shut down.

Will check the BIOS to make sure which setting that 4 second thingy is @.


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## OSdevr (Sep 3, 2017)

HTC said:


> Anyone heard of this?
> 
> Anyone ever heard of this one not working?



I have seen this before on a rather old computer. I don't remember the CPU or chipset (it was one of the first with PCI) but I found out online that the chipset had a bug that affected PCI busmastering which was exactly what I was attempting to do with it. Holding down the power button did not shut it down (but the PC beeper started wailing after a few seconds). I could only turn it off by cutting power. Lucky for me that was more a curiosity than a concern since I was working with a PC booter and didn't have any operating system or hard drives to corrupt. Without going into the technical details of what I think happened, I believe the firmware was too busy dealing with PCI errors that the message to power off was drowned out.


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## OSdevr (Sep 3, 2017)

HTC said:


> Memtest+ 5.01 ran for 2 full passes (that took over 5 hours): zero errors.



I'd recommend running Memtest+ for a bit longer than that!


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 3, 2017)

More passes is better, but 2 is the generally the minimum and normally plenty. 

That said, you should use MemTest86. Memtest86+ 5.01 is old (2013) and obsolete and it has been years since last updated. MemTest86 is under constant development with regular updates (most recently, July 26, 2017 - my sister's birthday!) to stay current with the latest tests, RAM types (like DDR4) and protocols.


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## OSdevr (Sep 3, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> More passes is better, but 2 is the generally the minimum and normally plenty.



Normally but not always. I always run Memtest for a good 24 hrs, it took just under that to find a problem for me once (good stick, wrong voltage ).


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## HTC (Sep 3, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> More passes is better, but 2 is the generally the minimum and normally plenty.
> 
> *That said, you should use MemTest86*. Memtest86+ 5.01 is old (2013) and obsolete and it has been years since last updated. MemTest86 is under constant development with regular updates (most recently, July 26, 2017 - my sister's birthday!) to stay current with the latest tests, RAM types (like DDR4) and protocols.



I made an Ubuntu installation USB 16.04 LTS stick: the memtest version i used was the one that was in the booting options of that USB stick. Perhaps i mistook it's name but i believe it was memtest+ 5.01 but it could have been memtest86+ 5.01: not sure. Just downloaded the latest USB version to make later.

There seems to be another problem, though. Tried to hook up another HDD and the PC didn't boot: the 4 second power button thing worked and the PC shut down. Removed the newly added HDD and tried to boot again, and again it didn't boot but, this time, the 4 second power button thing didn't work.

Also: can't seem to find that BIOS 4 second setting. Can't test atm since her monitor is also the living room TV, and is being used. Can't hook up my monitor to her PC because her APU doesn't support neither display port nor HDMI.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 3, 2017)

OSdevr said:


> Normally but not always. I always run Memtest for a good 24 hrs


Yeah, I generally recommend several passes or even over night. But two passes ensures one full pass with the full battery tests at maximum iterations. One pass is not enough (unless it finds problems then the RAM is bad) because it is not as complete as subsequent passes as it is designed to check for and identify the most common problems. 


HTC said:


> . Perhaps i mistook it's name but i believe it was memtest+ 5.01 but it could have been memtest86+ 5.01: not sure.


There are several with similar names that all based on much of the old core technology. But only the one from PassMark I linked to supports the latest RAM and protocols. So if you did not download the PassMark version, you are using an obsolete program.

That said, no software based memory tester is conclusive. If they report errors, the RAM is bad. But RAM can test good and still fail when installed, or when paired with other RAM. To conclusively test your RAM, you need to use sophisticated and very expensive test equipment, like this $4,400 RAMCheck LX Memory Tester - swap in known good RAM and see what happens.


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## cornemuse (Sep 4, 2017)

This has happened to me several times w/ diff computers/os's. With XP (been a while, tho I still use it) when attempting to install (dont remember which) programs, comp would freeze totally, had to unplug it. With UBUNTU, when clicking on some links (again, dont remember where), a total freeze, unplug comp.
Strange;y enough, the mouse pointer still moved on the screen, the buttons just didnt work, , ,

But they allus worked fine on re-powering, , , ,


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## HTC (Sep 5, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> Yeah, I generally recommend several passes or even over night. But two passes ensures one full pass with the full battery tests at maximum iterations. One pass is not enough (unless it finds problems then the RAM is bad) because it is not as complete as subsequent passes as it is designed to check for and identify the most common problems.
> There are several with similar names that all based on much of the old core technology. But only the one from PassMark I linked to supports the latest RAM and protocols. So if you did not download the PassMark version, you are using an obsolete program.
> 
> That said, no software based memory tester is conclusive. If they report errors, the RAM is bad. But RAM can test good and still fail when installed, or when paired with other RAM. To conclusively test your RAM, you need to use sophisticated and very expensive test equipment, like this $4,400 RAMCheck LX Memory Tester - swap in known good RAM and see what happens.



Figured out why i had ran version 5.01 (it was indeed 5.01): it was the *non UEFI version*. Now running the *latest 7.4 UEFI version* and i plan to leave it running all night.


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## OSdevr (Sep 5, 2017)

That shouldn't make a difference, but let us know if it finds any problems.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 5, 2017)

> it was the *non UEFI version*. Now running the *latest 7.4 UEFI version*


Okay but again, MemTest86 and MemTest86+ are still two different programs by two different companies even though their names are very similar. 

In any case, hopefully your RAM tests good, though not sure that will get you any closer to the uncovering the actual problem.


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## Bones (Sep 5, 2017)

In reference to shutdown problems:
See this all the time with mine and I know certain boards will act like this, others will power down either by holding the switch or simply pressing the button as some have said.
I'll also say sometimes even with boards that will normally shut off with a press of the switch they can hang as originally described if I have it cranked up hard for OC'ing, switching off the PSU is the only way they will cutoff at that point. All I do is simply restart the system, tell it to start Windows normally and it goes.
The one I'm using as a DD (Stock settings) wants to hang at times but overall it's never been anything to worry about, still works fine as is.

A weak CMOS battery can cause weird stuff to happen, looked back and didn't see anything about the battery being a possible suspect (And I apologize if I missed it) but yes, a weak battery can cause issues with bootup, shutdowns, and just overall freakyness - This is a common issue with certain board models such as an Abit AN7 as an example.
I know that's a really older board but it's still relevant - With an AN7 the Uguru chip on the board eats batteries like a starving animal and these are prone to the weird side of behaviour when a battery starts giving up. Popping in a fresh one makes the weirdness go away and that's good in it's case.
Also know if the battery in any board gets too weak it's possible to corrupt the BIOS in the board regardless of model, make sure if you haven't already to see if the battery is either good or dying. Using a common voltmeter you'd want to see about 3.0v's or a little more for a good battery but if it drops below 2.9v's or so, then it's best to replace it instead of risking a borked BIOS making the board itself unuseable.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 5, 2017)

The problem with troubleshooting shutdown problems is many different causes give the same symptom. That makes it that much harder to troubleshoot - especially remotely via forums. These are cases I wish I had on my bench.


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## Bones (Sep 5, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> The problem with troubleshooting shutdown problems is many different causes give the same symptom. That makes it that much harder to troubleshoot - especially remotely via forums. These are cases I wish I had on my bench.



Know what you mean - I know my hardware because it's mine and I run it all the time but trying to figure out someone else's problems can be a challenge, esp if you're not there with it. 
Had this happen with my REX the other night and although it normally cuts off with a press of the power button it hung and didn't want to shutdown on it's own when telling Windows to restart (Had it cranked way up there ), so after trying the button with no luck I killed the PSU and restarted it, no prob with a restart afterwards. 

Still wanted to hang if I tried a standard shutdown or the power button itself but in my case it's no biggie, not a DD machine by any means - Clocked it back down and all was well.


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## brandonwh64 (Sep 5, 2017)

HTC said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> The RAM didn't give any errors @ 1600.
> 
> ...



My NZXT case I have came from the factory with a faulty power button. I took it apart and solders a lead that was poorly soldered and it works like a champ now.


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## HTC (Sep 6, 2017)

Bill_Bright said:


> Okay but again, MemTest86 and MemTest86+ are still two different programs by two different companies even though their names are very similar.
> 
> In any case, hopefully your RAM tests good, though not sure that will get you any closer to the uncovering the actual problem.



Her RAM completed the test in a bit under 11 hours: zero errors.


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## HTC (Sep 30, 2017)

UPDATE

She sent me a text yesterday, while i was @ work, stating that the PC wouldn't turn on. I arrived from work way too late to do anything, but tried turning on the PC a short while ago and it booted just fine.

Since both the board and CPU were changed, wouldn't this indicate a possible PSU issue?


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## blobster21 (Sep 30, 2017)

Time to buy a new power button i guess ?


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## Shambles1980 (Sep 30, 2017)

swap the power on for the reset button and see if that changes things.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 30, 2017)

I agree with Shambles but first, follow the two wires from the back of the case's front panel power button to the two pins on the motherboard's front panel I/O header and pull those two wires from the motherboard pins. Then, with a very steady hand, carefully reach in with a very small screwdriver and short those two motherboard pins together. There is, at most, just a small +5Vsb (standby DC) voltage there so don't worry about getting shocked. You just don't want to short the +5V to the wrong pin, or scratch the motherboard with the hard, sharp screwdriver tip. 

If everything is okay, when the two pins are shorted, the system boots just as if you pressed the power button. If it boots, then it is likely the power button is bad (or loose) and swapping the wires from the reset button (making the reset button the power button from now on) will get you going.

If it does not boot, then you have other problems and I would suspect the PSU since the motherboard was already replaced - this assumes that all the power connectors are securely fastened.

If it does appear to be the power button switch itself, as noted, you/she can just use the reset button from now on. But I would try to gain access to the back of the button switch for a visual inspection. Sometimes, the button switch itself just comes loose from its mounting bracket and, depending on how it mounts, can be snapped back in place, or metal prongs holding it in place can be bent back into place, or the button can be hot-glued or epoxy-glued back into place. However, in many cases, the repaired mechanism holding it back in place is never as strong as it was originally - so it may (or likely will) come loose again.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 3, 2017)

Hopefully nothing is chafed either chafing causes some very weird issues


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