# urge to move to the darkside.. rising..



## Ketxxx (Apr 13, 2007)

Pros and cons folks for me selling my Crosshair and A64 in favour of a Abit AW9D MAX and E4300. I dont want to see an fanboy war breakout here. I'm asking simply because it'll help me decide  TRying to mainly decide if its worth the effort selling my mobo and CPU then getting the intel combo.


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## ex_reven (Apr 13, 2007)

mmmmm darkside

But If I was changing like you, Id go for a chip higher on the core2 range. Like the 6600.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 13, 2007)

The 4300 is good enough, 2MB cache, 800MHz FSB, and most clock to 3.2GHz without breaking a sweat. Plus with the mobo I'm thinking about, I should be able to get a nice 1000MHz FSB or higher without too much trouble. 

ed- out of curiosity what do we think is a good price for a modded crosshair, Freezer 64 Pro and a chip that clocks like a bat outta hell? I was thinking about £240


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## GLD (Apr 13, 2007)

I see you have a pretty good oc on your cpu, but if I had your setup, I would keep it and get the X2 6000+ for ~$240 here in the states. I would then just sell the 3500+. Nice rig you have now.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 13, 2007)

True. but once i hit uni i can kiss goodbye to pc upgrades fir like a year, plus a dual core would come in handy for uni work that does realtime 3d rendering an stuff.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Apr 13, 2007)

Key, us am2 bros got to stick together...  

How about k10?  Does your computer go that slow?


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## Pinchy (Apr 13, 2007)

Make the move to the darkside, you wont regret it 

Being a fanboy/a *cough am2 bro cough* is a waste of money and performance


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Apr 13, 2007)

LOL.  My opinion is when your computer can no longer do what you want it to do, upgrade.  I have not hit that point yet.  Ket should not be hitting it either.  

If I had the money I would go C2d no joke, but I don't.  I'll upgrade when my computer is no longer fast enough to play Crysis...


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## Pinchy (Apr 13, 2007)

Yeah i get what you mean. BUT - will his computer be outdated in a year for graphics programs and such? Id say probably. The advantage of the C2d is that its perfect for apps now-a-days, and in a year when its not that great, you can get an EASY 50% OC, making it no longer outdated


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## Ketxxx (Apr 13, 2007)

Thats my point  So who wants a modded asus crosshair combo?


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## GLD (Apr 13, 2007)

Guess you could compare AMD to a chubby chick. She can do everything you need to keep you happy, and you can always afford her. 

Intel is maybe the fakebelieve pretty girl that will cost you more money. But is the b*&%H really worth it? Not to me. I'll stick with the chubby chick.  

Maybe get the 6000+ and a good DX10 card instead. Im guessing you will be wanting to get a DX10 card.


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## erocker (Apr 13, 2007)

What are the mods and how much cash we talkin?!!


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## Pinchy (Apr 13, 2007)

Thats not a good analogy because AMD care about u just as much as intel. NOTHING.

All both companies care about is how much profit they are making. Hence, going towards one company is pointless


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## Ketxxx (Apr 13, 2007)

erocker said:


> What are the mods and how much cash we talkin?!!



dunno what to really ask. was thinking £240 (including postage) bundled with my cpu and ac freezer 64 pro. anyway back to the pros an cons


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## newtekie1 (Apr 13, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> dunno what to really ask. was thinking £240 (including postage) bundled with my cpu and ac freezer 64 pro. anyway back to the pros an cons



*Sticking with your current setup*

*Pros:*
*You don't have to spend any money
*You don't have to spend time tearing your computer apart and putting it back together.
*You have the option to move into dual core AM2 processors.

*Cons:*
*Performance isn't as high as you would like(I assume that is why you want to upgrade).
*AMD Processors are still overpriced for the performance level you get, especially if you are an overclocker.
*Even with a modded motherboard you still can't get an overclock out of it that you can get with a cheap Core 2 Duo and a decent stock motherboard

*Moving to the "darkside":*

*Pros:*
*You get better performance for your money
*Even the cheapest Core 2 Duo overclocks beyond what any AM2 socket processor can do.
*The option to move to quad-core is already available to you.
*This upgrade should make you set for at least a few years.

*Cons:*
*You have to tear apart your computer.
*You have to spend money.
*Good Core 2 Duo overclocking motherboards can be expensive.

That is just what I could come up with off the top of my head, feel free to add more.


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## PaulieG (Apr 13, 2007)

I just moved to the "Darkside". I just sold my Opty 165/Lanparty-Ultra-D setup, and purchased a E6300 and A Gigabyte DS3 system. I've always been an AMD guy, but I'm itching to build something new every 6 months or so, and I just can't ignore almost all of the reviews regarding Core 2 Duo overclocking. There is nothing out there in AMD land that can match the potential here. The closest is the Opty I just sold. So, at least for the time being, I'm going to give Intel a chance for the first time in more than 8 years. I get the new stuff today.....


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## PaulieG (Apr 13, 2007)

Also, the problem with AMD right now is that there is not much head room for overclocking on most of the higher end CPUs. Take the 6000+. It looks great at stock, but some reviews say that even a 10% OC will cause instability! Most of the fun for me when building a new rig is in the overclocking. No OC head room= No fun...for me at least.


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## kwchang007 (Apr 13, 2007)

c2d is fast.  if you want alot more performance go for the c2d.  if i were you, id stick with your rig right now, then when k10 and 45 nm c2d comes out, let the prices drop and see which one is faster.  of course youd have to wait half a year, but youd either have a better cpu than you could get now (k10) or youd have a better overclocker than you can get now (45 nm)  oh and price drops on c2d by then is guarnteed.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 13, 2007)

All good points, basically everything I was already tossing up.. hohum. Decisions decisions. Just out of curiosity, how does this sound; 

Asus Crosshair mobo (modded up & flashed with BIOS 0502) 
A64 3500+ (clocks to 2.8GHz+ on 1.47v) 
AC Freezer 64 Pro (lapped)  
6800GT BIOS modded and clocked @ 420\1.18GHz.

Of course if this looks good and I decide to switch, the Crosshair will come in its retail packaging with all accessories and original invoice. CPU will also come with its paperwork for the 3yr AMD warranty. All for say around £300.


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## technicks (Apr 13, 2007)

To much i you ask me. I can get those parts new for that price and go to diner to.


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## kwchang007 (Apr 13, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> All good points, basically everything I was already tossing up.. hohum. Decisions decisions. Just out of curiosity, how does this sound;
> 
> Asus Crosshair mobo (modded up & flashed with BIOS 0502)
> A64 3500+ (clocks to 2.8GHz+ on 1.47v)
> ...



that's 600 us, umm im pretty sure for that money you could get new stuff that runs at your oc'ed speeds for that price.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 13, 2007)

UK has a strong curreny  I always sell stuff like this within the UK otherwise we get royally screwed.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 13, 2007)

kwchang007 said:


> that's 600 us, umm im pretty sure for that money you could get new stuff that runs at your oc'ed speeds for that price.



My stuff is new really with the exception of the 68GT, none of it is more than around 3 months old I dont think.


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## kwchang007 (Apr 13, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> UK has a strong curreny  I always sell stuff like this within the UK otherwise we get royally screwed.



ahh, oh and btw if you drop it...50 pounds or more, than you stand alot better chance at selling it all.  oh and i take it you're moving the memory you have to the new motherboard?  and yeah, i looked at newegg, your motherboard is still like 260 dollars. so everything with the motherboard and cpu has to be new, unless you have a old cpu and new motherboard? that doesn't make any sense though..


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## technicks (Apr 13, 2007)

Why not buy a 5400 for cheapo now. The prices are dropping as we speak.
And next year go for quad core Barcelona. They gonna kick Intell ass.


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## Joshmcmillan (Apr 13, 2007)

I'm not really AMD or Intel. I just get what's the best I can afford, in my case it was the 3800+ X2 because the cheapest Core 2 Duo was about $80 more. 

If I was you I probebly wouldn't upgrade though coz if you can't upgrade untill you get out of uni then a 3500+ will be old by then, but if you get a core 2 duo now then in 3 or 4 years it will still be a decent cpu.


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## kwchang007 (Apr 14, 2007)

Joshmcmillan said:


> I'm not really AMD or Intel. I just get what's the best I can afford, in my case it was the 3800+ X2 because the cheapest Core 2 Duo was about $80 more.
> 
> If I was you I probebly wouldn't upgrade though coz if you can't upgrade untill you get out of uni then a 3500+ will be old by then, but if you get a core 2 duo now then in 3 or 4 years it will still be a decent cpu.



yeah that's how my laptop was, except i really wanted the 4 mb of cache to offset the problem of the fsb.


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## Pinchy (Apr 14, 2007)

Find out how much the upgrade will cost you. If its not that much, your basically getting a more powerful comp for cheap.

IMHO, thats worth the time to buy/sell parts and build the comp


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## Chewy (Apr 14, 2007)

yep if you get a c2d now you will be able to upgrade in a year to quad-core for fairly cheap.. than when your done with university and have a real job, you can buy a super Barcelona quad-core or whatever top end cpu they have out.


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## tkpenalty (Apr 14, 2007)

Ket, just some info, dont go for E4300 since the lower FSB is a problem, yes lower FSB means higher Overclock, but E4300s only overclock so far. Go for the E6320 (4MB L2) or E6600, the E4300 due to its lower FSB at the same clocks will have less performance anyway.

EDIT: Get urself a whole new system.


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## Pinchy (Apr 14, 2007)

Why would get get a whole new system 

He has an X1950 PRO, mad ass RAM, a nice HDD, strong PSU and the rest dont really matter


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## Ketxxx (Apr 14, 2007)

Yea thats what I was thinking  PC8000 is hardly outdated lol. Just mobo and CPU I would replace, rest of the system is fine. Once DX10 cards come out proper then I'll probably sell my 1950. O yea, that £300 includes shipping, an given the monstrous packaging the Crosshair uses and packaging for the graphics that easily means what I'll actually get is more around £275. So I cant really go lower than £300.


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## trt740 (Apr 14, 2007)

Wait ket nothing uses even the potential of a dual core AMD 64 rig buy a 3600x2  Brisbane for 65 dollars and over clock it to 3.2ghz or higher it performs near a  e6400 / e6300C2D when over clocked like that and costs a third of the price. The new Amd chips are going to be 40 to 50 percent faster than the current chips out now for AM2. Wait or you will be sorry. Almost  every Brisbane made will go over 3.0ghz and if you buy a Brisbane 4000x2 currently at 103.00 and dropping they almost all break 3.1ghz. the only reason my chip is at 2.8ghz or Am2 FX62 speeds is my old ram held me back. Also remember my chip only costs 65.00 and my front side bus is alot faster than normal AM2 chips running at that speed already. With the new ram I have coming it's going to hit well over 3.0ghz and you already have good ram. Don't waste your money read the reviews on the Brisbane and see if I'm not right they match alot of the C2D chips in reviews and are the best bang for the buck chip made ($65.00)


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## Pinchy (Apr 14, 2007)

What?

Dont quote me on this (im not 100% sure), but doesnt an e6400 @ stock (2.1Ghz) equal (sometimes beat, sometimes lose) to an X2 5000+ @ stock (2.6Ghz)?


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## Ketxxx (Apr 14, 2007)

Last I checked, a 2.4GHz Core2 was knocking 7 shades of shit out of a 2.6GHz AMD chip.

Ed - heres a Link Thats not a huge margin, but noticable, and at uni the spare core will mean I basically dont need to worry about a CPU replacement for a few years.

I'm not worried about the E4300 "low" FSB either, as the mobo it will go with packs some serious firepower, so that "low" FSB shouldnt be a problem, guestimation? it'll reach around 1000-1100MHz FSB Link That shows the 4300 hitting a monster 1600MHz (OC pg3) FSB, so my estimate of 1100MHz is more than conservative


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## Pinchy (Apr 14, 2007)

The e6300 is less than $20 less than the e4300 though (that would be less than 10 pounds id say)....so wouldnt it be worth it ?


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## Namslas90 (Apr 14, 2007)

Just take the 'dive' ketxxx, and be sure to tell us all about it,(like we know you will).
I still say (said before) get the e6300 not the e4300, you'll have more fun with it.

PS:Lock your Door, lol


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## kwchang007 (Apr 14, 2007)

Namslas90 said:


> Just take the 'dive' ketxxx, and be sure to tell us all about it,(like we know you will).
> I still say (said before) get the e6300 not the e4300, you'll have more fun with it.
> 
> PS:Lock your Door, lol



lol e6300=more fun than the e4300.  don't they have a higher e4x00 seris than the 4300?  or is that going to be released with 45 nm?


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## SilentAces (Apr 14, 2007)

I have yet to see ANY AMD system compair to my $650usd C2D system...In addition to that i have higher clocks and better benches than alot of e6300 6400 and some 6600's....i can provide benchies if you need...or you can check a few benchmarks threads here, like ScienceMark scores....


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## Ketxxx (Apr 14, 2007)

My A64 did petty good in the SCM test, 1622  nipping at plenty of C2D systems heels. I would probably get an E63 if the place I intend to get the stuff from had one, they only have an E64 an the price diff between that an a E43 is like £45, the price hike jus dont outweigh the difference.


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## trt740 (Apr 14, 2007)

Watch when  I get home from Florida when I bench my Brisbane at 3.0ghz plus and see the bang for the buck (65.00). It will hit into the 1700's which is right there with the C2D  mildly overclocked are. My core system costs around 470 dollars no intel set up can match that for bang for the buck. Yes the C2D is fast but when you add in the rebuild pain azz and the fact that the entry level chips cost 3 times the Brisbane AM2 chips, and that the new AM2 chips will match the intel chips why would you upgrade? Also what game or application is there that the AM2 chips cannot handle, for now and the foreseeable future? Sell you current chip and buy a Brisbane chip . Saving time, money and keep it for a year. Then Buy a new generation Barcelona chip. If you didn't already have a good AM2 board and ram and had a 939 board buy all means I would tell you to buy a C2D system. We all know for now C2D chips are the best over clocking chips, but they are more expensive and their motherboards cost more. Really all and all its a great problem to have because if AMD chips are lightning fast  and Intel are light fast plus twenty percent what do we have. We have great chips all around and even better prices.


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## SilentAces (Apr 14, 2007)

trt740 said:


> Watch when  I get home from Florida when I bench my Brisbane at 3.0ghz plus and see the bang for the buck (65.00). It will hit into the 1700's which is right there with the C2D  mildly overclocked are. My core system costs around 470 dollars no intel set up can match that for bang for the buck. Yes the C2D is fast but when you add in the rebuild pain azz and the fact that the entry level chips cost 3 times the Brisbane AM2 chips, and that the new AM2 chips will match the intel chips why would you upgrade? Also what game or application is there that the AM2 chips cannot handle, for now and the foreseeable future? Sell you current chip and buy a Brisbane chip . Saving time, money and keep it for a year. Then Buy a new generation Barcelona chip. If you didn't already have a good AM2 board and ram and had a 939 board buy all means I would tell you to buy a C2D system. We all know for now C2D chips are the best over clocking chips, but they are more expensive and their motherboards cost more. Really all and all its a great problem to have because if AMD chips are lightning fast  and Intel are light fast plus twenty percent what do we have. We have great chips all around and even better prices.




show me a system from amd for $650 that runs as fast or faster than me? The price on C2D is not bad at all considering what you get, and how long it will last you...I am an AMD fanboy at heart, but i can not argue that C2D is the way to go....We can argue all we want to about future chips, but they are not here now and the C2D are and are very much well worth the LITTLE bit extra cash..$65 for the 3600 is a great deal tho...

 show me a build that is "a pain in the ass"....Dont we all like to build systems? 

Looking forward to your benchmark screenshots...


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## trt740 (Apr 14, 2007)

It's really about how much you want to spend and if you want to rebuild your system. If  you don't mind sifting through parts and re tweaking components and have a extra 300 dollars to spend on top of what you sell your system for then I would say sell it and get a Intel system. If your not up for that keep what you have, don't rebuild, don't re tweak and spend like 30.00 after  selling your 3500. Then get a newer dual core AM2 Brisbane and buy a future Barcelona chip if you need it . Then with the money you save buy a second x1950  for Crossfire mode on your existing board. Either way it's a win win for you


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## {JNT}Raptor (Apr 14, 2007)

AM2 5200 at 3100Mhz for Referance.  
Yes I know I should run lower Multi....but an Issue with the board Is preventing me.....hopefully a bios update Is comming.....or a New Board Is.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 14, 2007)

Am floating towards the darkside also, just tonite ordered an E4300, 2GB Crucial Ballistics DDR2 667 CL3 RAM (the ones with supposidly one of the very best Micron IC's, the D9GMH , capable of near 1100Mhz), a Scythe Infinity and the Asus P5N-E SLi NForce 650i mobo, needed SLi and a decent overclocker as I am going to get 2 x 8600GTS's for my Birthday in June once I flea bay the 7900GTO.

I actually sold my exisitng kit on flea bay for more than I bought the new kit so pocketed £60 in profit!

Even though reviews show that the E4300 can be clocked to 3.6Gig ish the reason why the E4300 will appeal to many is becasue with the 9x multiplier you do not need such a good and exspensive highly overclockable mobo as the FSB is going to be so much lower than on a 6300 or 6400.  Realistically with memory set 1:1 you only need memory that will handle speeds in the 800's in any case, I just went for these crucials beacause apparently they can do DDR2 800 with very tight timings like 4-3-3-10.

The downside to all this tho, is that I have to leave the AMD overclockers club


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## SilentAces (Apr 14, 2007)

here is something i made for another forum...maybe it will help you guys figure out what you are going to do...sorry its a little long, but to the point...

3.6 is the max that cpu can do with out doing a bsel mod or bios mod....AND THAT IS VERY VERY RARE....3.2Ghz is normal, most can't go above 333fsb....

anyway any questions you may have Ketx or Tatty i would love to help you if you need..






First we will start with some reference information

Core2Duo E4300 Allendale
1.81Ghz  
2Mb L2 cache
800Mhz FSB
6x-9x multipliers

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115013


***How does it Overclock?***

Chances are that you already know the answer to this. The E4300 is usually a great overclocker. As long as you understand that for the past several years a great overclock was anything 25% or above. Today with the core2duo line,  25% seems laughable. Most overclockers get a 75% increase in their clocks, while a few only get 25%. Others have achieved 100%-125% increase in clocks. To get a high overclock with the E4300, many factors should be reviewed. And remember, you can not expect your results to be the same as everyone elses. The following will help to increase your chances of getting a fast relatively cheap system. 


***Factors for getting a great overclock.*** 
Production Week, Motherboard, RAM, and Cooling.

**A list of oc's vs. production weeks is located at the end of this post. Some weeks appear to be better overclockers than other weeks. Usually you can't control what week you end up with, but when you do get your CPU in your hands at least you can get a "rough" idea before you even install it.

**MotherBoards
Perhaps THE most important factor in getting a high overclock, is the motherboard!  This choice maybe more important than choosing a cooling solution for your cpu!
Far and away the two most popular motherboards are the Gigabyte P965's and the Asus P5B's. Tho i have to say at the time of writing this the Gigabyte 965P-DS3 seems to be a little more popular, and the Biostar 965PT may become more popular with the "pinmod". Both the P5B's and GA-965's seem to get about the same results in oc'ing. So far I have seen only a few motherboards with the Nvidia 680i/650i chipsets and would have to say that if you are not going "dual gfx" the 600i series maybe not be the best choice. I have yet to see either board out perform the intel 965chipset with the E4300...mostly because no one pairs the two together...When I find more tests with the 680i and E4300's I will share my findings....

In my honest opinion, i would say that in a single gfx card set up the 965-P chipset gets my vote. They are great overclockers, and they have a lower RMA rate. They are also price very fairly for the budget minded.

The worst of the worst seems to be these combo deals with ECS and like mostherboards. We have all seen the E4300 with ECS motherboard for $150 together. Personally, I would still buy it. Its a free motherboard and $10-$20 off the cpu alone..But if you plan to overclock, these motherboards are not for you. The VIA P4-800 and the PT890 are not known to be anykind of overclockers. For one, they only allow the fsb to reach 300. Second, they will not allow you to change your RAM timings and use max DDR2-533. Third, limited to only  +.01 +.02 or +.03 vcore adjustments... All in all they maybe free and look decent, but that is only if you are going with stock settings. Oc'ers stay away!

**RAM
With such a high overclock from the CPU, it is best to build your system using at least DDR2-800 memory. The simple reason for this is DDR2's lowest multiplier is 2 (1:1), and when you raise the CPUs fsb to  375, then your memory is now clocked 2x375 (750Mhz). If you are using DDR2-667 that would be a big overclock for your RAM. If you are using DDR2-667 and it can't run stable at 710Mhz, forget about getting 3.2Ghz....With DDR2-800 you can max the E4300 to 400fsb while running the RAM at stock. Tho a 400fsb is very rare for this CPU....Do your research and check your CUSTOMER reviews to find what RAM is right for you and your budget..

**Cooling
The better the cooler the better the temperatures and the possiblity of a better clock. Just like with the RAM, do your research and check customer reviews to find what cooling is right for you and your budget..I won't talk on about something we all should already know about.




***System Options***

**Bios Settings
The following is a compiled average of member's and their specs. Use this only as a loose guide to overclocking your cpu. As we all know not every cpu will clock the same.

http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/176060-calling-all-e4300-owners.html
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/171380-e4300-voltages.html

AGAIN THESE ARE AVERAGES
*965-P chipsets
Vcore 1.41v
Vfsb +.1v 
VMCH (stock)
VDIMM (can not be figured)
FSB 340 
Multi 9x 
PCIe 100mhz
RAM multi 2.0 (1:1)

*680i 650i P5 chipsets
Vcore 1.44v
Vfsb (stock) 
VNB (stock)
VDIMM (can not be figured)
FSB 340
Multi 9x
PCIe 100Mhz
RAM multi 2.00 (1:1)

***Mod-ability-***

A while back someone did some research and found that with the right motherboard the E4300 could be modded and achieve higher clocks.. The "Pin" or "BSEL" mod...If it works, it changes the "bootstrap" and allows the CPU to surpass its "FSBwall"....In one such case a 400fsb wall was hit, but after the mod 460fsb was achieved (with phase change & 1.8vcore)...Some report like results but lower clocks due to temps..





http://www.overclock.net/intel-motherboards/162796-breaking-350-fsb-wall-e4300-biostar.html

Attempts with Gigabyte S3 and DS3 motherboards
http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/169088-e4300-pin-mod-not-working-allendale.html

In order to use the mod, your motherboard should be known to work with the mod. Below is a list of KNOWN working and not working motherboards with the mod.

**Working Motherboards
Biostar 965PT
Asus (can also use bios 7011 instead of pinmod)

**Non Working Motherboards
Gigabyte 965-P (S3 DS3)

**NOTE: Before attempting the mod you should reset your bios to default, and make sure your motherboard is not listed as "Not Working". If your motherboards is not listed then if you try the mod PM me your results and I will add your motherboard to the list.


***Week of production vs. overclock-  As more of you post your production weeks and specs I will add them to the list....

44A 334fsb x9 1.33vcore
43A 333fsb x9 1.    vcore
41A 350fsb x9 1.35vcore
49F 356fsb x9 1.44vcore
48A 334fsb x9 1.37vcore
41B 400fsb x9 1.46vcore (400fsb x8 1.33vcore)
41A 390fsb x9 1.45vcore (pin mod) 

***A note on thermal paste
As posted recently, Arctic Silver tells us when using their product that the old "grain of rice" method should not be used with the C2D line. Instead they illistrate a "bead line" that runs from the top of the chip to the bottom, right down the middle. This is where the core resides and good application is needed most.








I hope that this small guide helps some of you with questions.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 14, 2007)

U following me?  or am I following you lol.  Nice article tho, thanks, I'll be quite happy with 3.2Gig, anything more is a bonus!  My kit will arrive for next weekend so will let you know how I get on then.

I read one review on the 650i (well I read loads) and in the one they tested it with the 4300 and got it to 3.56 or 3.57Gig, I will see if I can find it.


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## SilentAces (Apr 14, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> U following me?  or am I following you lol.



lol...i was just gonna post in the r600 thread, but felt like i was following you...funny you should mention...




{JNT}Raptor said:


> AM2 5200 at 3100Mhz for Referance.
> Yes I know I should run lower Multi....but an Issue with the board Is preventing me.....hopefully a bios update Is comming.....or a New Board Is.



Dude nice score, and stella oc   on that 5200+....when i built this rig i was torn between the 5200 X2 and the E4300...now i wonder what that system of yours would do with my 0c water cooling setup...


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## trt740 (Apr 15, 2007)

Well if everyone bails on AMD be ready to get one big rich intel and super expensive chips like it was in the 90's. O well seems the AMD fateful are bailing and I guess I see the attraction. This is a very bad sign.


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## SilentAces (Apr 15, 2007)

trt740 said:


> Well if everyone bails on AMD be ready to get one big rich intel and super expensive chips like it was in the 90's. O well seems the AMD fateful are bailing and I guess I see the attraction. This is a very bad sign.



I dont think so....This is how it happens...No company makes the best of anything its whole life...AMD will most likely have a come back someday...But i dont think it will be their next gen chips...by the time those are released ( as late as '08) intel will have 45nm (who knows octacore lol) cpus...

On the surface it may seem that we all are "loyal" to our cpu makers, but in reality its about the best chip..at least for me...and i am sure one day we will all be amazed at the new AMD's...


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## Pinchy (Apr 15, 2007)

Nice oc silent, but you gotta remember, your on water 

I got to 3.2Ghz but was limited due to a heating problem i have  I didnt mess with the Voltage either 

(I was sitting on 55*C idle at one stage and i decided not to go higher)


----------



## trt740 (Apr 15, 2007)

I think your wrong if Barcelona fails to perform AMD is nearly done. It won't fail from  it's specs it's gonna kill the current C2D but Intel will fire back. Thats if the specs leaking out are correct anyway.  http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=470&Itemid=1


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## Pinchy (Apr 15, 2007)

AMD have Ati now...so they have extra $$$ in the graphics market


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## SilentAces (Apr 15, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> Nice oc silent, but you gotta remember, your on water
> 
> I got to 3.2Ghz but was limited due to a heating problem i have  I didnt mess with the Voltage either
> 
> (I was sitting on 55*C idle at one stage and i decided not to go higher)



I hear what you are saying, but with all the information i have collected i would say the water helps me very little...The temp has more to do with vcore.....I run at almost stock vcore (1.33) and 400fsb (very rare vcore for e4300)...however when i try to run at 410fsb i have to raise the vcore from 1.325v to 1.47v and that really heats me up...Even if i lower the fsb to 400 and keep the high vcore i run way hotter...(some of you are saying DUHHH! lol)

Truth be told i shut down my chiller for a day and let the water get to room temp. When i did this i was amazed at how little diff. the colder water made. My temps went up only about 10c..and that left me still in the SAFE zone..

The reason my temps only went up a little is sort of a long story, but if you need to know i will post why..

I run with the chilled water now beause the Voltage adjustments i made to my x1800gto, they made the vregs and core really really hot. So i still need the ultra cold temps for that...




trt740 said:


> I think your wrong if Barcelona fails to perform AMD is nearly done. It won't fail from  it's specs it's gonna kill the current C2D but Intel will fire back. Thats if the specs leaking out are correct anyway.  http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=470&Itemid=1



i agree that they could be better than C2D, however by the time amd releases them (as late as 2008) intel will again have a new cpu out for amd to work towards...but you may be right if barcelona fails what will happen to amd? thank god for ati then...


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## Pinchy (Apr 15, 2007)

Yeah but thats the thing...i cant put my volts any higher because 55*C is WAY too hot for idle.

Put it this way, i ran my comp on a cold night with an open case and a desktop fan aiming at it (put the volts just a little higher), and i posted at 470FSB (3.76Ghz). It didnt get past the XP loading screen, but i didnt try tweaking at all (because i thought why bother - im not always gonna have the fan in front of it like that).

Yeah so from 410 ---> 470 is a huge diff all because i have a slight heating problem 

But i agree with you...its not because of the heat, its because of the volts...although the heat affects what volts i can set it to ...you get what i mean


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## tkpenalty (Apr 15, 2007)

By the way pinchy, did your X1950PRO come with the AcceleroX2 or did you get it seperately? If you got the Extreme model... how did you remove the ceramic heatsinks?.

As I mentioned before, the E4xxx line can only clock so far regardless of heat, while the E6xxx line can do extremely high overclocks. Mainly due to an inferior manufacturing wafer used.

I want a E6320.


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## Joshmcmillan (Apr 15, 2007)

Who cares what the brand is?? There both good.


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## Pinchy (Apr 15, 2007)

Yeah i got a Powercolor Extreme X1950 PRO (i believe all the 512mb Powercolor's come with the Accelero)

I never removed the ceramic heatsinks i just put the VRM plate straight on on top of them . That plate is awesome though (thanks for linking me to it) because whenever i touch it after a game, its steaming, meaning its doing its job


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## Tatty_One (Apr 15, 2007)

trt740 said:


> Well if everyone bails on AMD be ready to get one big rich intel and super expensive chips like it was in the 90's. O well seems the AMD fateful are bailing and I guess I see the attraction. This is a very bad sign.



I hear what you are saying and I am of course one of those "faithful" you talk about but to be honest, the same happened to Intel in 2004 but they have recovered, it boils down to the "bang for buck" thing we all talk about, once AMD has a faster/more efficient competative chip to compete no doubt things will change again.

This will be my first Intel chip since my old P3, I have had 6 AMD's since then and beleive it or not I really had to think long and hard before i took the plunge but when you sell as i did, my old kit and got more for it than the upgrade is costing it would have been very foolish of me to buy a slower system.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 15, 2007)

Ahh see people? This is how a healthy AMD vs Intel thread goes! No flaming, bitching or general tardyness, just good healthy pro vs con. After much thought I decided I am likely going to shift to C2D, as the way I see it, I will have a faster system for uni, and I shouldnt need to worry about a CPU upgrade for a few years.


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## tkpenalty (Apr 15, 2007)

QFT, Penryn will work on C2D compatible chipsets.


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## Ketxxx (Apr 15, 2007)

I should be set then, board I'm getting has Intels shiny new 975X chipset. Guess that means my current Board, CPU, AC Frezer 64 Pro and a 6800GT are up for grabs. Heres a cut and paste jobby for anyone thats interested;

Budle deal:

Asus Crosshair (BIOS 0502 already flashed to the board + cooling mod) Fully retail packed with all accessories & original invoice.
A64 3500+ (clocks to 2.8GHz+ on 1.47v) also included will be the paperwork for the AMD 3yr warrenty.
Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro (lapped)
256MB 6800GT PCI-E @ 420\1.18GHz BIOS modded & heavily modded stock cooler (never saw the card get hotter than 62c ish - aka on par with a VF900cu)

All hardware is currently in use, so known to be in full working order  Looking for £300 including shipping anywhere in the UK, outside the UK price might be slightly higher. Oh, also included is a Thermalright CPU mounting bracket, nothing but the best quality goes into my builds these days, cant afford to take chances with uni fast running up to me.


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## SilentAces (Apr 15, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> After much thought I decided I am likely going to shift to C2D










Your transformation to the DarkSide is almost Complete...Feel the true power of the force run threw you....


Good to hear...let us know what kind of OC you get from that system...i am very interested in the 975 chipsets...will be fun to see results....


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## Ketxxx (Apr 15, 2007)

Will do, once someone pops up to grab the bundle new parts will be ordered. Alternatively I'm willing to sell all but the 6800GT for £250 inculding shipping if anyone is interested. Oh yea, almost forgot about this, my Crosshair had an odd quirk when I first had it, I needed to remove one DIMM module to get it to boot, then turn it off and put the other module back. Havent had the problem since then, but just thought I would throw it out there so its known.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 15, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> By the way pinchy, did your X1950PRO come with the AcceleroX2 or did you get it seperately? If you got the Extreme model... how did you remove the ceramic heatsinks?.
> 
> As I mentioned before, the E4xxx line can only clock so far regardless of heat, while the E6xxx line can do extremely high overclocks. Mainly due to an inferior manufacturing wafer used.
> 
> I want a E6320.



I thought most E6300 dont go much past 3.6Gig on air? With the right Mobo apparently some 4300's will do 3.5Gig +.  The plus with the 4300 is the 9x multiplier.


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 15, 2007)

Well i haven't seen a huge difference between the 43 63 or 6400's....yes i know there are spec. differences. but performance wise i don't see many....

Unfortunately it had more to do with production week than anything else..the 41A's, 49F's and 48A's are so far the major clockers...where as the 48A's & 43A's only seem to clock around 333fsb..

i put together as many benchies as i could fit onto one screen shot...hope that helps to compare cpus...i did drop the multi down to 8x and set the fsb to 400, now with that it is closer to the 6300's settings. but check out the results...i actually scored the same in some benchmarks as i did with 3.6 9x400....4300 is a interesting beast...


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 15, 2007)

Knowing my luck I'll get a duff week of production and struggle at 3Gig 

Edit:  Just read the reviews on the chip from the site I bought it from and one says he has only taken it to 3Gig but on stock volts, another says he is on 3.2Gig with stock cooler.......just hope mine is same batch!


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 15, 2007)

One thing, what would anyone recommend as a safe/healthy idle and load temperature for the C2D?


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 15, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Knowing my luck I'll get a duff week of production and struggle at 3Gig
> 
> Edit:  Just read the reviews on the chip from the site I bought it from and one says he has only taken it to 3Gig but on stock volts, another says he is on 3.2Gig with stock cooler.......just hope mine is same batch!



have yet to see one not go to 3.0Ghz on a P965 mobo...its going up from there that some have issues..




Tatty_One said:


> One thing, what would anyone recommend as a safe/healthy idle and load temperature for the C2D?



First off when you get your system, you should dl TAT from Intel...TAT reads the temp from the T_junction sensor whereas Speedfan, Everest, MBM, ect. read from the T_case and are usually 15-20c lower than TATs T_junction readings...

Intel states that normal operating temps at T_junction are in the 60's under TAT load....However 75C or lower is acceptable for full TAT load...TAT is better than Everest or even Orthos in that Intel has made it just for their chips, and when LOAD testing it actually does a 100% load on both cores...Other programs flux so they do not always run at 100% load....But who uses 100% of both cores? lol....

My list shows that most owners running around the 3Ghz mark idle around 30-35c and TAT load around 65-70c...using conventional cooling of course...and here is a tid bit...those who use the intel stock cooler get roughly the same temps as others using higher end aftermarket coolers..




tkpenalty said:


> As I mentioned before, the E4xxx line can only clock so far regardless of heat, while the E6xxx line can do extremely high overclocks. Mainly due to an inferior manufacturing wafer used.



going to have to disagree with you on this one.at least when talking about the 6300's and 6400's....I see lower clocks on more 6300's than 4300's and having the 9x multi almost rids the two of any fsb differences (800 vs 1066)...i have not heard of any "Inferior wafers" used on the 4300's, in fact the 4300's get a higher % of oc then almost everyother C2D..expect 75-100%  increase in clocks.....in more than one case, with the SIMPLE bsel mod and watercooling, clocks over 4Ghz were reached (4.1Ghz i think)..STABLE....

did anyone know that if you lowered your multi on a C2D with P965mobo you actually are raising your FSB? I have tested this and its something new from the 965P...i'll find the link and post it...its interesting...I can run close to the same benchmarks with 400x8 as i do with 400x9 because of this...and with lower temps too...neat..


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## Kursah (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> did anyone know that if you lowered your multi on a C2D with P965mobo you actually are raising your FSB? I have tested this and its something new from the 965P...i'll find the link and post it...its interesting...I can run close to the same benchmarks with 400x8 as i do with 400x9 because of this...and with lower temps too...neat..



Now that's some interesting info...I don't understand how that works, but if you find the link I'd like to see how they figured that lowering your cpu multi would actually increase your FSB. It makes no sense to me, and I have not noticed that ever. But do please post that link!


----------



## pt (Apr 16, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> I am likely going to shift to C2D,



don't even dare!!!!!!!


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## regan1985 (Apr 16, 2007)

looking at your system seems pointless to move to core duo, i would just get a x2 6000


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## pt (Apr 16, 2007)

regan1985 said:


> looking at your system seems pointless to move to core duo, i would just get a x2 6000



why?  
if he would buy anything it would be a x2 3600 and clock it to 3ghz


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## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

pt said:


> don't even dare!!!!!!!





regan1985 said:


> looking at your system seems pointless to move to core duo, i would just get a x2 6000






pt said:


> why?
> if he would buy anything it would be a x2 3600 and clock it to 3ghz



:shadedshu a fanboy convoy has arrived... j/k

i don't disagree about keeping what you got and upgrading cpu's...does anyone have any benchmarks on the 6000 or 3600? i would love to see some..for reference...(seriously)

also does anyone have any benchmarks with AMD that beat mine? would love to know what AMD has that is like the 4300 or better......


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## pt (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> :shadedshu a fanboy convoy has arrived... j/k
> 
> i don't disagree about keeping what you got and upgrading cpu's...does anyone have any benchmarks on the 6000 or 3600? i would love to see some..for reference...(seriously)
> 
> also does anyone have any benchmarks with AMD that beat mine? would love to know what AMD has that is like the 4300 or better......



puuuu-puuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!*sound of train arriving*

at stock speeds i can find one that matchs your 4300


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## tkpenalty (Apr 16, 2007)

I smell a lock in the fututre :shadedshu please... no fanboys, just PURE facts.



pt said:


> why?
> if he would buy anything it would be a x2 3600 and clock it to 3ghz



Yes if he buys a C2D and clocks it to 3Ghz I will smite you if you say the 3600+ is faster... (lol 6300, 3600).



pt said:


> puuuu-puuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!*sound of train arriving*
> 
> at stock speeds i can find one that matchs your 4300



...Cost differences. Remember that Penryn will run on 1066FSB mobos.


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## pt (Apr 16, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> I smell a lock in the fututre :shadedshu please... no fanboys, just PURE facts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



at a same or lower price  

the 6300 is faster than the x2 4400+ when overclocked


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## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

pt said:


> puuuu-puuuuuuuuu!!!!!!!*sound of train arriving*
> 
> at stock speeds i can find one that matchs your 4300



lol...you make me lol with your stock speed comparison....no one buys C2D for stock speeds...Find me an amd benchmark with SM2 that beats me...oh...and if you do i will pull out the price book and see just how much more it is compared to my 4300...AGAIN find me an AMD system that outscores me in SM2...

in the future im sure amd will, and i hope they do have better cpu's...i am still an amd fanboy at heart...but i know what is good right now...



Kursah said:


> Now that's some interesting info...I don't understand how that works, but if you find the link I'd like to see how they figured that lowering your cpu multi would actually increase your FSB. It makes no sense to me, and I have not noticed that ever. But do please post that link!



http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=30

its the second post that helps me understand a little why this is...but i have to admit i don't understand every aspect of it...i have read it a few times and i am learning..lol..

i also tested this and took a screenshot of my results if anyone is interested...I hope Im not out of line. I know this is not my thread, but i figure this info could be useful..

notice how intel's TAT even reads as 3.599(3.6Ghz)....when i took this i was running 400x8=3.2Ghz in bios (see CPUZ at bottom)...and Sandra reads "Front Side Bus Speed   4x 450Mhz (1800Mhz data rate)"


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## pt (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> lAGAIN find me an AMD system that outscores me in SM2...



at 3.6?
none (that i know of)



SilentAces said:


> .no one buys C2D for stock speeds...



you sure?
not everyone overclocks...


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## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

pt said:


> at 3.6?
> none (that i know of)



hell im wondering now at what speed does an AMD take me then...





pt said:


> you sure?
> not everyone overclocks...



well i guess for sake of arguement we should just say for Ketxxx and not everyone....I'm sure he will be doing as much oc'ing as possible..and this thread is for him....

I am still interested in the amd6000....i can't find anything really on this cpu, is it out or soon to be released? or is everyone lol at me cause i don't know better? lol


like i said before this is all about RIGHT NOW...C2D right now.....in the near future i wonder who will be faster...


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## pt (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> hell im wondering now at what speed does an AMD take me then...



if you do some math you will discover  




SilentAces said:


> well i guess for sake of arguement we should just say for Ketxxx and not everyone....I'm sure he will be doing as much oc'ing as possible..and this thread is for him....
> 
> I am still interested in the amd6000....i can't find anything really on this cpu, is it out or soon to be released? or is everyone lol at me cause i don't know better? lol
> 
> ...



he sure will be overclocking, but he already as a great mobo, so i think a dual-core cpu will be enough for some 3d work, instead of buying a new mobo and cpu,
that's just my opinion...


ps: the 6000+ is a x2 series chip clocked at 3ghz, same architecture
http://www.amd.com/gb-uk/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_13041^13076,00.html


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## kwchang007 (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> no one buys C2D for stock speeds



i did  only cause i can't overclock it


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## trt740 (Apr 16, 2007)

If you guys can wait tell tomorrow I will be home and you will see what 65.00 gets you when I over clock my AM2 3600x2 to 3.1ghz or higher I'm in Georgia now heading for Ohio and my new ram. Right now with crap ram at 2.8ghz or 900 mghz oced I'm running faster than FX60, FX62,4800+,5000+, 5200+, 5400+, Optys ,165,170,185 at stock and surpassing Tatty Ones and my 4000+ single cores(FX53 in disguise) running at  3.1ghz. I'm most likely going to hit 1700 to 1750 in scientific 2.0 scores and for 65 dollars thats major bang for the buck. So you know so far I'm at stock voltage at that speed. Yes it's not a e6300 but it's coming close and will last at least a year or more tell AMD's new chips are out. Look at my chips big brother a 5200+ at 3.1ghz it hitting in the 1700+ range and my chip is really the same chip physically (almost, slightly different but really the same) and will be running at a  higher FSB. Tatty if you wanted bang for the buck a Biostar 550 and this chip, plus your new ram would have cost you about 280.00. Now thats bang for the buck a 3.1ghz chip, AM2 board and new ram for that price. A e6300 cost 180.00 or more buy it's self thats about three times my chips cost Wow!!! O well the dark side always tastes so sweet I almost switched my self but resisted. I just cannot forget the way Intel treated me in the 90's.


Remember Jedi that way only leads to lust, hate,destruction and death. Those things a true Jedi does not seek. Those are things only sought by the Sith.


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## Pinchy (Apr 16, 2007)

Yeah get a 975x Mobo 

Your OC may be a little lower, but you would want to get as much out of your RAM as you can


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## trt740 (Apr 16, 2007)

Am I wrong or are some of the new 6000+ chips hitting 3.37ghz on air and over 3.4ghz on water. I'm seeing this in reviews. I wonder how this compares with the C2D at or near the same price 239.00. Haven't seen them Oced and compared but at stock it seems to fair well against a e6600 and under? Whats your take on that in reference to this kind of upgrade talk. The e6400 and it are priced the same and the E6700 is 100.00 more.


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## newtekie1 (Apr 16, 2007)

trt740 said:


> Am I wrong or are some of the new 6000+ chips hitting 3.37ghz on air and over 3.4ghz on water. I'm seeing this in reviews. I wonder how this compares with the C2D at or near the same price 239.00. Haven't seen them Oced and compared but at stock it seems to fair well against a e6600 and under? Whats your take on that in reference to this kind of upgrade talk. The e6400 and it are priced the same and the E6700 is 100.00 more.



The $164 E4300 gets to 3.6GHz on air and hands the 6000+ its ass on a silver platter with all the trimmings. Thats my take on that.


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## trt740 (Apr 16, 2007)

I'm not so sure all of them hit 3.6ghz at 3.2 ghz they appear rather close and most sites seem to indicate they both most often will hit on air 3.3ghz. At stock the 6000+ beats it badly. I realize over clocked the E6400 beats a 6000+  but is it by that much and is it worth a rebuild. The benches I see put the 6000+ maybe 10 percent slower than a e6400. When it's clocked near the 3.3ghz mark. If I were building new I would buy a e6300 or e4300 but I'm talking upgrading a AM2 system ,selling , tweaking new components and hoping you get the right component mix, not building a new system. Ketxx has a tried and true system and it's modded and tweaked already. Then there is the Barcelona factor for a existing AM2 owner . Which AMD promises a 40 percent increase in performance over current AMD chips in about 8 months hum. Great thread it's got me thinking. Ketx I've beaten this to death but this is a very bad idea money wise. If you had a 939 system I'd say yes but not a AM2 system that makes no sense from the time and money and future upgrade stand point. From a fun factor stand point it might be worth it but I hate to see you rebuild again when Barcelona comes out (but thats a If and when too). If you wait all you have to do is drop a chip in and go. If you don't , which I'm one to talk, you have the failed components to deal with, (because rarely does everything you buy work right the first time) selling your old system, building the new system, tweaking it etc..to deal with. Well good luck


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## Tatty_One (Apr 16, 2007)

Bottom line is that on air, you will not find any AMD system that will run SuperPi 1M test faster than 24seconds, I beleive C2D's on stock cooling hit around 14 seconds, speaks for itself really does it not?

The last review I read on the 6000+ clearly stated that in many apps/benches it was faster than a E6400 at stock, and in one or two cases, a 6600 at stock but was beaten in Every bench by ANY C2D once that C2D acheived approx 2.7Gig on an overclock, 3Gig and above would absolutely blow the 6000+ away in every bench.  My old Sandy 4000+ at 3.275 gig only managed SuperPi of 25.010 by the way.  Averages across the board suggest that clock for clock the C2D is 15-20% faster than the Athlon so if the 6000 will do lets say 3.2Gig than at that speed the C2D is 15-20% faster, once you get the C2D to 3.5Gig you are probably talking 30-40% faster, do I sound like an Intel fanboy yet?  I will probably get mine and think it's the worst mistake I have ever made!!!!

Lastly, over here you can but 2 E4300's for the price of a 6000+, I know because I was seriously thinking of getting one.  Ohhhhh and Barcelona being a server processor will not be widely available to retail on release (if available at all, bear in mind initially the Opterons were only available in socket 940 and not retail available) and even when it is it is likely to be VERY exspensive and arguabally not as good as Intels likely offering, not my thoughts, just some bits I have read)


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## tkpenalty (Apr 16, 2007)

TRT740 you are a REAL AMD fanboy, just go with the flow, i'm still an ATI fanboy but I do have a grasp of reality. I'll say it again, you can't compare a consumer level CPU to a CPU thats almost double the price, its like comparing a Hyundai to a Ferrari. If you equivalently clock a E4300 to the +6000... good lord, the E4300 for half the price (and cooling-im talking about stock cooling) just spanks the +6000. Now it was the same as X2 3800s VS Pentium D-Pentium Ds were like 3.2Ghz while AMDs a third of a clockspeed, the Pentium D EE got smacked to the other corner of the universe when the +3800 was clocked to the same speed. Deja Vu anyone?



(hey look a flying pig!!!)


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## trt740 (Apr 16, 2007)

Not a fan boy however I didn't forget what Intel was like when you were in diapers. LOL


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## Tatty_One (Apr 16, 2007)

trt740 said:


> Not a fan boy however I didn't forget what Intel was like when you were in diapers. LOL



Trt.......WE are AMD fanboi's!!!! and I like it that way


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## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

idk why i am commenting...but bottom line RIGHT NOW is this....No AMD is beating C2D..BOTTOM LINE...I asked for benchmark proof that AMD is faster, and no one has provided anything...I think that says it all...lol...

INTELAMD


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## bruins004 (Apr 16, 2007)

The only AMD proc that is worth buying is the X2 3600+ bc it is $65 and nothing can beat it at that price range.
However, if you are going to go for any other proc then go with Intel.

I myself got an x2 3600+ to hold me over until next year when I get a new mobo, CPU and GPU 
Bestest and  cheapest upgrade.
With that and 2 Gigs of Ram it runs like a champ 

So either go for the X2 3600+ or a C2D (if you want to spend more than $65).


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## Eric_Cartman (Apr 16, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> I'm not worried about the E4300 "low" FSB either, as the mobo it will go with packs some serious firepower, so that "low" FSB shouldnt be a problem, guestimation? it'll reach around 1000-1100MHz FSB Link That shows the 4300 hitting a monster 1600MHz (OC pg3) FSB, so my estimate of 1100MHz is more than conservative



oh hell yeah, the extremely cheap p5n-e(650i chipset) can hit 400mhz(1600 effective) fsb without modification or even adding voltage to the chipset, the only thing you have to decide on is what multiplier you want in the end, with the e4300 you get a multiplier of 9 with the processor running at 3.6ghz and with the e6300 you end at 7 with the processor running at 3.2ghz

the low starting fsb argument is pretty stupid when you actually think about it, the whole idea behind overclocking processors is to raise the fsb, so the lower starting fsb is negated pretty quickly

high starting multiplier>>>>high starting fsb

anyone that knows anything about overclocking knows that


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## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

i would not get that mobo...from all the info i have collected..its a fine mobo, but for the money others will do better...and one mobo is actually the best choice of all...at least for us die hard oc'ers..

i would suggest buying a P5B-D and using bios 0711..that bios will read the e4300 as a 1066 fsb...changing the bootstrap, and allowing for the fsb wall of 400 to be passed..no bsel mod..no volt mods..nothing to change but the bios..3 people have reached 450fsb with this mobo and bios....of course im sure that it depends on the e4300 itself..but i have yet to see a 4300 not get higher clocks using this and the bsel mod methods...

i am getting a P5B next week sometime....i am pretty sure that my cpu will have no issues running around 450fsb...its the same production week as those who have reached that high fsb...


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## Eric_Cartman (Apr 16, 2007)

the p5b will not do over 400mhz fsb, even when booting at the highest bootstrap, the chipset is just way to starved or voltage to do 400mhz stable and with no way to add voltage to the chipset short of volt mods it is not a good board if you are aiming for 400mhz+

the p5n-e was just and example of a cheap board that hits 400mhz consistantly with little to know effort, with no need to use outdated bios or modify the board in any way

if i was building a machine today i would actually go with the p5n32-e


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## Tatty_One (Apr 16, 2007)

And I needed a reasonably priced decent overclocking SLi solution which is why I went for mine.


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## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

Eric_Cartman said:


> the p5b will not do over 400mhz fsb, even when booting at the highest bootstrap, the chipset is just way to starved or voltage to do 400mhz stable and with no way to add voltage to the chipset short of volt mods it is not a good board if you are aiming for 400mhz+
> 
> the p5n-e was just and example of a cheap board that hits 400mhz consistantly with little to know effort, with no need to use outdated bios or modify the board in any way
> 
> if i was building a machine today i would actually go with the p5n32-e




sorry to argue but you are wrong man...i'll pull a screen shot and post it when i get home tonite...the p5b will when using the 0711 bios allow a 4300 to continue in its oc..in 2 cases 440-460 fsb's were reached...idk if you have tried this with the 4300 or if you are just guessing that it wont work, but like i said i will show you it does tonite...and it is by far the best mobo to get if you really want the most out of you 4300 and are not going dual gfx cards...

edit:  why wait i found it here...  http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=159367


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 16, 2007)

And just for everyones info, with a 7x multiplier, the Asus P5N-E 650i SLi has been tested and benched to show it can exceed 500FSB and on a 9x multi it will handle upto 417 although I appreciate different boards and hardware always play a factor but there is some potential there.  Have a look here:

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2894&p=3


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> And just for everyones info, with a 7x multiplier, the Asus P5N-E 650i SLi has been tested and benched to show it can exceed 500FSB and on a 9x multi ]



yes but the e4300 will never goto 500fsb..and the multi hardley effects the 4300 as it is fsb limited and not frequency limited like the E6xxx line is...


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> yes but the e4300 will never goto 500fsb..and the multi hardley effects the 4300 as it is fsb limited and not frequency limited like the E6xxx line is...



I understand which is why I said up to 417 on a 9x multi   ohhhh and stop sneekin up on me again!


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> I understand which is why I said up to 417 on a 9x multi   ohhhh and stop sneekin up on me again!



yes but my point was that the p5b with 0711 bios will allow your 4300 to go well beyond 400fsb, where as no other mobo will...period..unless you go with biostars 965p and bsel mod the cpu...

anyother mobo will only let the 4300 go upto 400fsb stable (if that) and not beyond... 



your it...


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> yes but my point was that the p5b with 0711 bios will allow your 4300 to go well beyond 400fsb, where as no other mobo will...period..unless you go with biostars 965p and bsel mod the cpu...
> 
> anyother mobo will only let the 4300 go upto 400fsb stable (if that) and not beyond...
> 
> ...



Ok, I get the point but if realistically a 4300 is not going to top 3.6Gig on air whats the point, the cpu will limit and therefore just spend enuff money on a motherboard that will take it to the limit, why buy one that is limited! AND NOW YOUR IT!


----------



## Eric_Cartman (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> yes but the e4300 will never goto 500fsb..and the multi hardley effects the 4300 as it is fsb limited and not frequency limited like the E6xxx line is...



if you want that high of a fsb lower the multiplier on the e4300 once it hits its frequency cap

the e4300 will do a 500 fsb, it just won't do it at the 9 multiplier, i'd rather have the option of a higher multiplier, especially when it comes at a cheaper price


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

Eric_Cartman said:


> if you want that high of a fsb lower the multiplier on the e4300 once it hits its frequency cap
> 
> the e4300 will do a 500 fsb, it just won't do it at the 9 multiplier, i'd rather have the option of a higher multiplier, especially when it comes at a cheaper price



E4300 will do 500fsb...HOW???? From the bios? and who did it???? ScreenShots? Where are you getting your information on this cpu?  

AGAIN the e4300 has no real frequency cap, its more like a FSB cap from the mobo..And no one has hit a 500fsb with it...475 is the highest i have seen and that was for show (phase cooling and 1.8vcore) others get 440fsb and use 1.525vcore...and they did this with bsel mod or 0711 bios, effectivly changing the fsb limit...

This is the second bit of info from you that is not accurate... please, you are confusing people and trying to take what i say and make it look wrong...its not...make sure what you are saying is correct before you post..i spend twice as much time making sure i am correct than i do writing a response...

Im not trying to be a dick Eric, nor am i trying to be a fanboi here...but if i see incorrect info, i have to correct it...however if you show me that i am wrong then i will take it like a man and remove my foot from my mouth to say sorry for doubting you..



Tatty_One said:


> Ok, I get the point but if realistically a 4300 is not going to top 3.6Gig on air whats the point, the cpu will limit and therefore just spend enuff money on a motherboard that will take it to the limit, why buy one that is limited! AND NOW YOUR IT!



good point...i sometimes forget that i am running water...sorry..

HOWEVER, it is the motherboard tho that limits the 4300, not the 4300 itself...it has more potential than 800fsb..but the strapping on most all motherboards prevents this..so we trick them with the older bios or bsel mod...

and as far as running on air with high fsb, recent test show it can and most likely will...on air with good temps and with the 8x multi..now with my set up and several others, we found that using the 8x multi allowed us to drop our vcore dramaticly...from 1.45 to 1.33 or even to stock...thus running much much cooler...and allowing the fsb to be raised yet again in bios....but again most every mobo will limit this to 350 - 400 fsb depending on the mobo...again this is why i am rubbing on the p5b right now..lol..those limits don't apply like other boards..

i should also say that many people are reporting that the hsf on the 4300 is a little concave, and needs to be lapped...some had temps of 50 TAT idle...but after the lapping they went to normal..so when you get yours make sure its real flat...

tag


----------



## Eric_Cartman (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> E4300 will do 500fsb...HOW???? From the bios? and who did it???? ScreenShots? Where are you getting your information on this cpu?
> 
> AGAIN the e4300 has no real frequency cap, its more like a FSB cap from the mobo..And no one has hit a 500fsb with it...475 is the highest i have seen and that was for show (phase cooling and 1.8vcore) others get 440fsb and use 1.525vcore...and they did this with bsel mod or 0711 bios, effectivly changing the fsb limit...
> 
> ...



i already told you how, lower the multiplier and it will do 500mhz fsb, the motherboard is what you have to worry about doing that fsb not the processor, the processor doesn't care what fsb it is running at as long as it is stable at the final clock frequency

most people leave the multiplier at 9 which is why the max out the at lower a lower fsb, but once you start to drop the multiplier you can get the fsb as high as you can with an e6400 or e6300

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=186330

there is one that did it without even lowering the multiplier, of course i know this person was using phase change cooling to do that, but dropping the multiplier to give a lower final clock means that a 500mhz fsb can be obtained using decent air cooling

so perhaps you should make sure you are actually one that isn't spreading inaccurate information before you start your one man fight against inaccurate information


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

Eric_Cartman said:


> http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=186330
> so perhaps you should make sure you are actually one that isn't spreading inaccurate information before you start your one man fight against inaccurate information



come on now, no flaming..and i am american not french so i didn't look at that site....and if you read what i said you would know i am not picking fights..



SilentAces said:


> Im not trying to be a dick Eric,  if you show me that i am wrong then i will take it like a man and remove my foot from my mouth to say sorry for doubting you..



Sorry for doubting the 500fsb..tho was done just a few days ago......but that isn't what you were saying..you say just lower your multi to raise your fsb...not true..

my point is only validated by your information...this 500fsb+ was done using an older bios or bsel mod...It was not done by running a lower multi and higher fsb as you say is possible....the board is what allowed him to hit 500fsb.not his multi...and i still have yet to see a lower multi get a higher fsb....i know a ton of users that have tried and failed in getting a higher fsb running a lower multi....at least on the 4300...still i would love to see ss of that if you can find them...

also how he has his system running like that, thats for show only, not day to day use...


----------



## Eric_Cartman (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> come on now, no flaming..and i am american not french so i didn't look at that site....and if you read what i said you would know i am not picking fights..



oh, so you are the one saying i am wrong and i am spreading inaccurate information, but then when i prove you wrong and say the same thing to you i am suddenly flaming you?  get real

and i live in america, that is didn't stop me from knowing that 500mhz is possible with a e4300



SilentAces said:


> Sorry for doubting the 500fsb..tho was done just a few days ago......but that isn't what you were saying..you say just lower your multi to raise your fsb...not true..
> 
> my point is only validated by your information...this 500fsb+ was done using an older bios or bsel mod...It was not done by running a lower multi and higher fsb as you say is possible....the board is what allowed him to hit 500fsb.not his multi...and i still have yet to see a lower multi get a higher fsb....i know a ton of users that have tried and failed in getting a higher fsb running a lower multi....at least on the 4300...still i would love to see ss of that if you can find them...



no, i already showed you a 500 fsb on a e4300, and have not only done a 500 fsb on several e4300s myself but know several others that run them like that 24/7.  you asked me to prove that 500 fsb was possible, i did lowering the multiplier to 7 would give a final speed of 3.6ghz which can easily be cooled with air

any overclock with any knowledge will tell you that the higher the multiplier on a processor the lower the max fsb will be because the processor will hit its max speed sooner


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

Eric_Cartman said:


> oh, so you are the one saying i am wrong and i am spreading inaccurate information, but then when i prove you wrong and say the same thing to you i am suddenly flaming you?  get real



nice i say sorry and you still are an ass...whatever man...your info on the P5B was still wrong...defend that then...




Eric_Cartman said:


> no, i already showed you a 500 fsb on a e4300, and have not only done a 500 fsb on several e4300s myself but know several others that run them like that 24/7.  you asked me to prove that 500 fsb was possible, i did lowering the multiplier to 7 would give a final speed of 3.6ghz which can easily be cooled with air
> 
> any overclock with any knowledge will tell you that the higher the multiplier on a processor the lower the max fsb will be because the processor will hit its max speed sooner



the fact that you say NO to providing proof to your lower multi higher fsb only tells me your full of it...sorry...but if you can't show me then it means nothing....and if you say you have several 4300 over 500fsb then why did you post someone elses cpuz?????? I would have proudly posted my results if i had over 500fsb on it...

Prove me wrong...i love it when i am proved wrong...i dont know everything..and if i am wrong i want to be corrected so i can pass on right information...still say NO do you?


----------



## Eric_Cartman (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> nice i say sorry and you still are an ass...whatever man...your info on the P5B was still wrong...defend that then...



actually I would much rather you provide some form of proof to back up your original statement that the p5b can do 400mhz fsb before since you were the one originally saying it, back your stuff up

and i didn't see an "i'm sorry" anywhere in that sentence, i just saw you saying i am flaming you when all i did was do exactly the same thing you did to me, accuse you of posting inaccurate information, except i actually was able to back my information up



SilentAces said:


> the fact that you say NO to providing proof to your lower multi higher fsb only tells me your full of it...sorry...but if you can't show me then it means nothing....and if you say you have several 4300 over 500fsb then why did you post someone elses cpuz?????? I would have proudly posted my results if i had over 500fsb on it...
> 
> Prove me wrong...i love it when i am proved wrong...i dont know everything..and if i am wrong i want to be corrected so i can pass on right information...still say NO do you?



i didn't say no to providing proof, i said you no to the other crap you said.

you haven't backed up a word you have said, i have shown you that the e4300 can in fact do 500mhz fsb, that completely invalidates everything else you have said because you base your entire argument on the "fact" that the e4300 can't do a 500mhz fsb, it can

i posted someone elses cpu-z because i don't have an e4300 sitting in front of me(look at my system specs), but i build custom gaming machines for people, it is part of how i make a living, and part of that service is overclocking them for the people

i have shipped several e4300 machines out the door sitting at 500+ fsb, 515*7 giving 3.6GHz seems to be a very great place for air cooling, but i am not about to call up customers and ask them for cpu-z validations, i'm not that desperate to prove you wrong, i already have done that just by showing that an e4300 can do 500 fsb

now it is time for you to start backing up your crap, prove to me that lowering the multiplier on a processor won't help you get a higher fsb, because i know a lot of overclockers here and elsewhere will tell you differently, but just go ahead and try and prove that one

while you are at it prove that a p5b will do 400 fsb, because i have never seen one that high, the p5b deluxe maybe, but not the standard p5b

edit: if you would have paid attention in the thread, you would have already noticed that tatty_one already posted an anandtech article using an e6600 and a p5n-e in which they were only able to reach a 417 fsb with the multiplier at 9, but when they lowered it to 7 they were able to reach 500 pretty easily http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2894&p=3


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

Eric_Cartman said:


> 1. and i didn't see an "i'm sorry" anywhere in that sentence....
> 
> 2. now it is time for you to start backing up your crap, prove to me that lowering the multiplier on a processor won't help you get a higher fsb
> 
> ...



in response

1. learn to read...


SilentAces said:


> Sorry for doubting the 500fsb....



2. i am not the one who said it could do 500 with a 7x multi.....so i am not the one who should prove it..

3. Again learn to read...


SilentAces said:


> http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=159367



4. 





Eric_Cartman said:


> no, i already showed you a 500 fsb on a e4300,


yes you did right there...lol...you making yourself look bad..

if you can't read then maybe you should not be posting here...Now if you want to provide good information then do it..so far the only thing you have shown is someone else's "RARE" results and that you have an active imagination.....good job..



TATTY your still it man..


----------



## bigboi86 (Apr 16, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> *Sticking with your current setup*
> 
> *Cons:*
> 
> *AMD Processors are still overpriced for the performance level you get, especially if you are an overclocker.



How is that true if you get almost the same kind of performance for half the price. I can get a 35dollar sempron and have a decent CPU. How is that not bang for buck? What about the dual core brisbane for 65 dollars? 

I call that bang for buck.


----------



## Thermopylae_480 (Apr 16, 2007)

Perhaps this conversation should end now, and we could get back on topic?  That would be the course of action I would recommend.


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

Thermopylae_480 said:


> Perhaps this conversation should end now, and we could get back on topic?  That would be the course of action I would recommend.



agreed...

sorry to be like that...felt i had to defend myself..


Back to normal mode...lol

TATTY have you ordered your system yet, and if so what all did you order?


----------



## Eric_Cartman (Apr 16, 2007)

Thermopylae_480 said:


> Perhaps this conversation should end now, and we could get back on topic?  That would be the course of action I would recommend.



Sorry, didn't see this post before I submitted mine.  I'll delete it.


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> agreed...
> 
> sorry to be like that...felt i had to defend myself..
> 
> ...



Phew, just read the posts above!  Interesting stuff about dropping the multi....raising the FSB and you need less volts.

Yes I have orderd kit, it will arrive Thursday it cost me less than I have sold my current rig so am £60 in profit, I have ordered:

1.  E4300
2.  Asus P5N-E SLi (going 8600GTS in SLi in June (birthday!))
3.  2GB Crucial Ballistics DDR2 667 Cas3 RAM (got the best Micron IC's money can buy), good to 1000Mhz at 4-4-4-12 or 1082 at 5-4-5-15, will do 800Mhz at 4-3-3-10.
4.  Skthye Infinity (going to mod it with extra 120mm fan).


----------



## newtekie1 (Apr 16, 2007)

bigboi86 said:


> How is that true if you get almost the same kind of performance for half the price. I can get a 35dollar sempron and have a decent CPU. How is that not bang for buck? What about the dual core brisbane for 65 dollars?
> 
> I call that bang for buck.



I wouldn't consider the Sempron 3000+ a decent processor by any means.  The x2 3600+ is a little better, but at this point it is just replacing the Pentium D 805.  It overclocks great, has good performance for the price you pay, but it is still a $65 processor.

I guess I should have quantified my statement with "in the price range he is looking at" but I figured that was understood.


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> 3.  2GB Crucial Ballistics DDR2 667 Cas3 RAM (got the best Micron IC's money can buy), good to 1000Mhz at 4-4-4-12 or 1082 at 5-4-5-15, will do 800Mhz at 4-3-3-10.




wow those are some nice oc speeds for that ram...if stable that will be right nice...i went with ocz plat..I wished i had done more research into memory..its ok ram but doesn't overclock very well for me.....

im gitty for your system, and the future 8600's in sli will be sweet on that cpu....shouldn't bottleneck anyway...


looking foward to your build this week.


----------



## Eric_Cartman (Apr 16, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> Phew, just read the posts above!  Interesting stuff about dropping the multi....raising the FSB and you need less volts.
> 
> Yes I have orderd kit, it will arrive Thursday it cost me less than I have sold my current rig so am £60 in profit, I have ordered:
> 
> ...



Sweet, let us know how it turns out.


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 16, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> wow those are some nice oc speeds for that ram...if stable that will be right nice...i went with ocz plat..I wished i had done more research into memory..its ok ram but doesn't overclock very well for me.....
> 
> im gitty for your system, and the future 8600's in sli will be sweet on that cpu....shouldn't bottleneck anyway...
> 
> ...



Thanks, I just hope that I dont get a "dog" of an e4300 and I can master the mobo quick and at least get 3.2Gig, I will be very happy with anything more, the crucial memory has the D9GMH IC's as listed here in a DDR2 RAM IC list by manufacturer:

http://ramlist.ath.cx/ddr2/

And here is a review, I cannot find the one that went all the way to almost 1100Mhz   but this will give you an idea of what they can do........I just hope the 4300 can match them in performance:

http://www.thinkcomputers.org/index.php?x=reviews&id=466&page=4


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 16, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> And here is a review, I cannot find the one that went all the way to almost 1100Mhz   but this will give you an idea of what they can do........I just hope the 4300 can match them in performance:
> 
> http://www.thinkcomputers.org/index.php?x=reviews&id=466&page=4



wow....wow...lol...that is some ram...research is the key to buying great product...

as far as it goes, with your set up i would be very very surprised if you don't hit at least 3.2ghz with that cpu...the only ones i have seen not hit above 2.7ghz were on cheap VIA chipsets... they have no pcie lock, vcore adjustments are a joke, and only allow for a max of 300fsb..


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 16, 2007)

Thanks, i will let you know Saturday how I am getting on, thanks for your help so far, might be comin back for more, I'm off to sleep now......ohhh and your IT by the way


----------



## Joshmcmillan (Apr 16, 2007)

Man has this thread been going for a long time. I read someone said that No AMD is beating any Core 2 Duo's....Hmmmmm......look at these benchmarks:
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/core2duolaunch_07130680720/12593.png
Notice that the 5000+ is beating the E6300 when the 5000+ costs AUD$45 less. Notice that graph doesn't even have the 5200+, 5600+ and the 6000+?? Go look at some beckmarks that do and you will see that most of them are better then there more expansive core 2 duo equivelent.


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 17, 2007)

Joshmcmillan said:


> Man has this thread been going for a long time. I read someone said that No AMD is beating any Core 2 Duo's....Hmmmmm......look at these benchmarks:
> http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/core2duolaunch_07130680720/12593.png
> Notice that the 5000+ is beating the E6300 when the 5000+ costs AUD$45 less. Notice that graph doesn't even have the 5200+, 5600+ and the 6000+?? Go look at some beckmarks that do and you will see that most of them are better then there more expansive core 2 duo equivelent.




Finally...someone shows some charts..ty...

in no way was i trying to sound cocky when i asked what amd beats the c2d..and i haven't seen an amd touch them yet...this was just the truth...

your chart shows that some do (under stock clocks) outperform the C2D...to bad there is not a way to accurately bench oc'ed cpu's together...not all oc the same..

now if you compare the stock clocks to each other, you see that Intel (using lower clocks) manages to stay close to amd and their higher clocked cpu's..

i am still wanting to see some x2 6000 brisbane info tho...the windsor i can find, but the 65nm bris. i cannot find anything but what maybe.....if anyone finds something i am interested in seeing... the other 65nm chips look nice and cheap for the performance...but ultimately haven't touched the C2D when oc'ed....

imo amd is has and is releasing better cpu's for those who don't oc....intel has better cpu's for those who want to oc...


----------



## pt (Apr 17, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> i am still wanting to see some x2 6000 brisbane info tho...the windsor i can find, but the 65nm bris. i cannot find anything but what maybe.....if anyone finds something i am interested in seeing... the other 65nm chips look nice and cheap for the performance...but ultimately haven't touched the C2D when oc'ed....
> 
> imo amd is has and is releasing better cpu's for those who don't oc....intel has better cpu's for those who want to oc...



i've posted before
it's a x2 series cpu clocked at 3ghz using 90nm fabrication process


----------



## SilentAces (Apr 17, 2007)

pt said:


> i've posted before
> it's a x2 series cpu clocked at 3ghz using 90nm fabrication process



thought those were the windsors? i've lost track of amd then..lol..


----------



## Joshmcmillan (Apr 17, 2007)

The 5600+ X2 is still cheaper then the E6300 and the 5600+ beats the E6300 by even more in benchmarks then the 5000+. A 5600+ fully overclocked to highest stable and an E6300 with the same cooler overclocked to highest stable should be fairly even.


----------



## Joshmcmillan (Apr 17, 2007)

SilentAces said:


> thought those were the windsors? i've lost track of amd then..lol..



Windsow is the low powered X2 series... I think... because I know mine is a windsor and it's one of the low powered series ones.


----------



## pt (Apr 17, 2007)

Joshmcmillan said:


> The 5600+ X2 is still cheaper then the E6300 and the 5600+ beats the E6300 by even more in benchmarks then the 5000+. A 5600+ fully overclocked to highest stable and an E6300 with the same cooler overclocked to highest stable should be fairly even.



c2d wins seeing that it can get 3.5ghz (usually) and has a higher "performance per clock rate"

http://www.amd.com/gb-uk/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_9485_13041^13076,00.html


----------



## Joshmcmillan (Apr 17, 2007)

AMD wins coz it's better at stock for ppl that don't wna make there CPU get hotter and less stable so it doesn't last as long.


----------



## Joshmcmillan (Apr 17, 2007)

Let's not start an AMD vs Intel fight though. I like whatever is best for me at the moment which is AMD and whoever made this thread(can't remember) will decide which ever suits him.


----------



## pt (Apr 17, 2007)

Joshmcmillan said:


> AMD wins coz it's better at stock for ppl that don't wna make there CPU get hotter and less stable so it doesn't last as long.



i like amd too, no fighting,(see sys specs) i was talking about overclock
at stock it's pretty much the same, intel uses a bit less power


----------



## Pinchy (Apr 17, 2007)

Joshmcmillan said:


> Let's not start an AMD vs Intel fight though. I like whatever is best for me at the moment which is AMD and whoever made this thread(can't remember) will decide which ever suits him.



AMD isnt the best at the moment , its intel, with their c2d


----------



## newtekie1 (Apr 17, 2007)

Pinchy said:


> AMD isnt the best at the moment , its intel, with their c2d



He said "best for me" not "the best".  Everyone has different needs and budgets.  AMD is really a good option if you are on a small budget and looking to spend under $130 on a processor.


----------



## tkpenalty (Apr 17, 2007)

Josh, sorry if this breaks your heart but you cant compare a high end AMD to a low end. The core 2 duo can take 3.0Ghz without a sweat. Thats only one of the many benchmarks... quite frankly, the other ones, AMD gets owned.

The price cuts intel made are not in effect yet in Australia for some reason, the price cuts that AMD made are. Other benchmarks show that the AMD is slower. Look at how lowly clocked the E6300 is! Once clocked to the same speeds (Core 2s can run at stock voltages at 3Ghz and be 100% rock solid stable, only thing is u need good RAM), its much faster than what you have. Ketxxx has already decided to buy it.


----------



## Joshmcmillan (Apr 17, 2007)

Were those benchmarks on that page wrong? Or is the 5000+ better then the E6300? Or does the 5000+ cost more then the E6300 in other countries there for needs to be compared to somthin like the E6600??


----------



## JC316 (Apr 17, 2007)

Hell Ket, get a Brisbane. They clock like bats outta hell and are dirt cheap. You can probably get MORE for your 3500, that or you would only have to pay bout 20 bucks.


----------



## Pinchy (Apr 17, 2007)

newtekie1 said:


> He said "best for me" not "the best".  Everyone has different needs and budgets.  AMD is really a good option if you are on a small budget and looking to spend under $130 on a processor.



lol touche 

Damn morning scim reading


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 17, 2007)

Joshmcmillan said:


> The 5600+ X2 is still cheaper then the E6300 and the 5600+ beats the E6300 by even more in benchmarks then the 5000+. A 5600+ fully overclocked to highest stable and an E6300 with the same cooler overclocked to highest stable should be fairly even.




I am afraid you are a bit out there, I am an AMD fanboi but clock for clock the C2D (any C2D) is 15-20% faster than any AMD offering.  So, as I have said before, at stock speeds there are a few AMD chips that can beat C2D in many benches, mainly because they are clocked higher at stock, if you want a real comparison find a review of the Opty 165 at stock versus the E6300 that are close at stock speeds, I cant find the one I read that was from the week the E6300 was released but in all benches the 6300 was averaging 23% faster (slightly higher stock speeds), both had 2MB L2 cache.  Once you decide however to overclock any AMD or C2D to near its limits generally you are talking a 30-40% speed difference. 

As I again mentioned before, look on these forums at the SuperPI 1M thread, the fastest AMD I have seen hits around 25Secs (I think it might be my 4000+ @ 3.27Gig, or it was at one time), the fastest C2D I have seen is slightly under 14 seconds, by my reckoning thats around 43% quicker.

For the record, 1st Gen Windsors with 2 x 1MB L2 Cache were the high end chips in the 4400, 4800 and Opty x2's (although in some they appeared as Denmarks, same chip really), Windsors have moved on to 2nd Gen with 2x 512KB L2 (now supporting the low powered 90Nm process), although they are still making some 2 x 1MB Caches for 5600 and 6000, Manchesters were the slightly lower end 3800, 4200, 4600 with 2x 512MB, recently the 65nm Brisbanes added to that, again with 512KB x2 L2 cache with the half multiplier (Apart from the 5000 @ 2.6 confusingly) as there is also a low powered Windsor at 2.6Gig.

AMD is only manufacturing Brisbanes and Windsors currently (as far as I am aware)in their desktop market sector, all with 2 x 512KB L2, the top of the range 6000 is a Windsor core I beleive, I may have the odd thing in there wrong (dont think so tho) but generally thats the score.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 17, 2007)

Joshmcmillan said:


> The 5600+ X2 is still cheaper then the E6300 and the 5600+ beats the E6300 by even more in benchmarks then the 5000+. A 5600+ fully overclocked to highest stable and an E6300 with the same cooler overclocked to highest stable should be fairly even.



5600 cheaper than 6300?????

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/124915

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/112704


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## Joshmcmillan (Apr 17, 2007)

Tatty_One said:


> 5600 cheaper than 6300?????
> 
> http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/124915
> 
> http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/112704



This is the site I use (Australian Currency)

5600+:
http://umart.net/au/product_info.php?cPath=47_361&products_id=109284

E6300:
http://umart.net/au/product_info.php?cPath=48_295&products_id=106404


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## tkpenalty (Apr 17, 2007)

Ket don't care about price, he only cares about performance.


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## Joshmcmillan (Apr 17, 2007)

tkpenalty said:


> Ket don't care about price, he only cares about performance.



If he doesn't care about price he can go and get a Core 2 Quad or somthing.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 17, 2007)

Joshmcmillan said:


> This is the site I use (Australian Currency)
> 
> 5600+:
> http://umart.net/au/product_info.php?cPath=47_361&products_id=109284
> ...




Was not picking on you! So are you changing the statement to something like "sometimes the 5600 is cheaper than the 6300"  

Edit:  And the E4300 is even less than that!


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## Joshmcmillan (Apr 17, 2007)

lol ok sometimes... I never thought too look at other sites then the one I use.. sorry.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 17, 2007)

Ket's a student,,,,he's not as rich as me!


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## Ketxxx (Apr 17, 2007)

I'm rich enough  the riches morph into beer tokens tho  As it stands I will deff get a C2D system, purely because I want a mobo and CPU that should have a good 2 year lifespan, even after that time, I dont see a clocked C2D being significantly outperformed.

mobo: Abit AW9d MAX
CPU: E4300 or, for the sake of £10 I may get the E6300, but the higher milti is somewhat more appealing vs. higher FSB. Beyond a certain point higher FSB is utterly useless. If you have decent RAM, then it doesnt even matter about a lower FSB, there are many other factors to consider than all out frequency, such as latency times.


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## Tatty_One (Apr 17, 2007)

Joshmcmillan said:


> lol ok sometimes... I never thought too look at other sites then the one I use.. sorry.



No need to apologise, you naturally used an Oz site, me a UK one.


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