# This is what happens when a tech forum discusses piracy. Saved for historical record.



## ShiBDiB (Mar 2, 2011)

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/gdc-2011-piracy-is-not-theft-says-minecraft-creator

I give it 20 minutes til Mailman shits in this thread


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 2, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> http://www.next-gen.biz/news/gdc-2011-piracy-is-not-theft-says-minecraft-creator
> 
> I give it 20 minutes til Mailman shits in this thread



20? Try 3. FUCK YOU.  Kidding.


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## AlienIsGOD (Mar 2, 2011)

@ Mailman, you never cease to amaze me with ur choice of avatars


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## RejZoR (Mar 2, 2011)

There are 3 categories that still pretty much remain in a prehistoric era. Game, music and movies industry. Instead of accepting new business models they are constantly complaining over piracy.
I work in a retail store and it works in the same way, just in a much smaller scale. If you can't sell something you have to adapt. Only company that has partially got it is Valve really. It's really hard to pirate their games and they "force" you to use their DRM Steam, but on the other hand they pay you back with rather regular updates and fixes, various community based features, achievements, steam cloud etc. So in the end you don't really mind the DRM since it's not limiting you in any way. But on the other hand it's helping Valve combat piracy. So in the end it's a win win for both sides and that's what everyone want.


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## JATownes (Mar 2, 2011)

> “Treat game development as a service,” he says. “Make a game last longer than a week. You can’t pirate an online account.”



This is a valid arguement, but then everyone will come along and bitch about Draconian DRM, and I have to log in to play, blah blah blah blah blah.  

I think that "services" like Steam are the way to go.  Cuts down on piracy, auto-updates, etc.  Now if developers would continuously update games, i.e. new levels, maps, single player missions, DLC *without a charge*...that would cut down on piracy.  They need to make it worthwhile/better for someone to purchase the game than pirate it.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Chryonn (Mar 2, 2011)

Notch has a good point there.


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## Maelstrom (Mar 2, 2011)

JATownes said:


> This is a valid arguement, but then everyone will come along and bitch about Draconian DRM, and I have to log in to play, blah blah blah blah blah.
> 
> I think that "services" like Steam are the way to go.  Cuts down on piracy, auto-updates, etc.  Now if developers would continuously update games, i.e. new levels, maps, single player missions, DLC *without a charge*...that would cut down on piracy.  They need to make it worthwhile/better for someone to purchase the game than pirate it.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.



+1 to this. While I'll almost never condone piracy and believe people shouldn't do it, I also believe that companies have a lot of options they could pursue to make people want to buy their product instead of pirating it. Companies need to innovate and change to help combat piracy.


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## Frizz (Mar 2, 2011)

His opinion mentioned this cute little diagram 







I don't see how pirates could be potential customers since most of them are struggling financially or don't intend to pay for games at all.... I guess the major concern is that they are achieving free access to paid content which in turn makes it unfair for everyone else willing to pay and help fund the developers.


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## cdawall (Mar 2, 2011)

randomflip said:


> His opinion mentioned this cute little diagram
> 
> http://www.eatliver.com/img/2008/3428.jpg
> 
> I don't see how pirates could be potential customers since most of them are struggling financially or don't intend to pay for games at all.... I guess the major concern is that they are achieving free access to paid content which in turn makes it unfair for everyone else willing to pay and help fund the developers.



hmm i like the pigs new avatar found!


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## Kreij (Mar 3, 2011)

Notch said:
			
		

> “Make a game last longer than a week. *You can’t pirate an online account*.”



Sure you can. Happens all the time.


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## Delta6326 (Mar 3, 2011)

In my school everyone is given a macbook I see people playing this game all the time in class every single one has pirated this game.  just sayin



Kreij said:


> %u201CMake a game last longer than a week. You can’t pirate an online account.”



I thought it was called Korean WoW players


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

So let me get this straight he charges for Minecraft and yet piracy is not stealing.......um ok?


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## newtekie1 (Mar 3, 2011)

JATownes said:


> This is a valid arguement, but then everyone will come along and bitch about Draconian DRM, and I have to log in to play, blah blah blah blah blah.
> 
> I think that "services" like Steam are the way to go.  Cuts down on piracy, auto-updates, etc.  Now if developers would continuously update games, i.e. new levels, maps, single player missions, DLC *without a charge*...that would cut down on piracy.  They need to make it worthwhile/better for someone to purchase the game than pirate it.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.



The problem is that while you can't pirate an online account, you can bypass the login.  Just like the pirated versions of Minecraft do, and they recieve full updates just like a paid user.(Though I hear the update servers for Minecraft will be moving to the same authentications system the multiplayer uses.)



TheMailMan78 said:


> So let me get this straight he charges for Minecraft and yet piracy is not stealing.......um ok?



Correct, it is not stealing, it is piracy.  The notion that every pirated copy is a lost sale is extremely flawed.  Most people that pirate a game would never buy it.  I pirated Crysis 2, but I'd never ever consider buying it because it is nothing more than another drab wattered down console port.  Now if they made it a game that at least partially lived up to the original I might consider buying it, but no, they pushed out a giant turd. However, I paid for Minecraft, because it is actually good, and worth the money.  The fact that he is charging a reasonable price helps too, he isn't another one of the big name game developers that charge $60 for the same old recycled console garbage we're used to seeing.


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## garyinhere (Mar 3, 2011)

randomflip said:


> I don't see how pirates could be potential customers since most of them are struggling financially or don't intend to pay for games at all....



I don't see why we should prosecute this man for robbing a bank he was poor and needed money.

No one says they are stealing the original. They say they are stealing the copy why is this always the main argument.:shadedshu


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## kuroikenshi (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> I don't see why we should prosecute this man for robbing a bank he was poor and needed money.
> 
> No one says they are stealing the original. They say they are stealing the copy why is this always the main argument.:shadedshu



Your example of robbing a bank is silly and exactly why Notch or who ever made that picture with the pigs. If you steal money, the money will no longer be in its original place. If I make a copy, the original is still there and someone else can purchase it and play it. So they still got their sale.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

Well then since no one is getting hurt why should we pay for any game? I mean its not stealing right? We should just take what we want! Weeeeee!


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## Frizz (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> I don't see why we should prosecute this man for robbing a bank he was poor and needed money.
> 
> No one says they are stealing the original. They say they are stealing the copy why is this always the main argument.:shadedshu




Please read all of my post, 

"I guess the major concern is that they are achieving free access to paid content which in turn makes it unfair for everyone else willing to pay and help fund the developers."

I am not justifying piracy and copies in anyway so I don't see why you would use that as an example.  I mean it is damned obvious that pirating can affect sales in a way but the point remains Piracy is not theft and that is just hard facts! Robbing a bank, bad example because you're still taking away original copies of the physical dollars, if you were to base it on a crime it would be more along the lines of fraud and using fake money.


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## cdawall (Mar 3, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Well then since no one is getting hurt why should we pay for any game? I mean its not stealing right? We should just take what we want! Weeeeee!



i'm game


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

How wonderful, another piracy thread. Perhaps someone can start a PhysX sucks thread and an ATi drivers suck thread as well. 



kuroikenshi said:


> Your example of robbing a bank is silly and exactly why Notch or who ever made that picture with the pigs. If you steal money, the money will no longer be in its original place. If I make a copy, the original is still there and someone else can purchase it and play it. So they still got their sale.



How about printing my own counterfeit money? I mean, i'm just copying something without physically taking it right?



randomflip said:


> I don't see how pirates could be potential customers since most of them are struggling financially or don't intend to pay for games at all.... I guess the major concern is that they are achieving free access to paid content which in turn makes it unfair for everyone else willing to pay and help fund the developers



Expanding on my point above, I don't see how counterfeiters could be potential people working for their money since most of them are struggling financially or don't intend to use real money to buy goods and services at all... I guess the major concern is that they are printing free money to pay for goods and services which in turn makes it unfair for everyone willing to work, get paid and buy their own shit.


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## newtekie1 (Mar 3, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Well then since no one is getting hurt why should we pay for any game? I mean its not stealing right? We should just take what we want! Weeeeee!



If the game developers want us to pay for their product they should make the product worth paying for(and not overcharge for it).  Simple.  If the pirates couldn't pirate, they probably wouldn't buy the game, so eliminating piracy doesn't help.  That is why piracy isn't stealing.


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## garyinhere (Mar 3, 2011)

randomflip said:


> Please read all of my post,
> 
> "I guess the major concern is that they are achieving free access to paid content which in turn makes it unfair for everyone else willing to pay and help fund the developers."
> 
> I am not justifying piracy and copies in anyway so I don't see why you would use that as an example.  I mean it is damned obvious that pirating can affect sales in a way but the point remains Piracy is not theft and that is just hard facts! Robbing a bank, bad example because you're still taking away original copies of the physical dollars, if you were to base it on a crime it would be more along the lines of fraud and using fake money.



Your right! Bad example... I'll go into your house when it's not locked and your not home... I will copy naked pictures of your woman and distribute them. That is not theft! I like your logic


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## cdawall (Mar 3, 2011)

erocker said:


> How wonderful, another piracy thread. Perhaps someone can start a PhysX sucks thread and an ATi drivers suck thread as well.



can i start and intel is better than AMD thread since we are on the stupid thread subject


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

cdawall said:


> can i start and intel is better than AMD thread since we are on the stupid thread subject



Definitely not, but we're on the same page.


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## Frizz (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> I will copy naked pictures of your women and distribute them. That is not theft! I like your logic




You think that example is any better ?  I'm gonna stop right there.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

newtekie1 said:


> If the game developers want us to pay for their product they should make the product worth paying for(and not overcharge for it).  Simple.  If the pirates couldn't pirate, they probably wouldn't buy the game, so eliminating piracy doesn't help.  That is why piracy isn't stealing.



Ah ok. So I guess game making is free now too. Cool.


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## Kreij (Mar 3, 2011)

Kuro said:
			
		

> If you steal money, the money will no longer be in its original place. If I make a copy, the original is still there and someone else can purchase it and play it. So they still got their sale.



Just like running money though a photocopier, right? It's called it counterfeitting.
If that's okay I'm gonna be one rich person.


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

randomflip said:


> You think that example is any better ?  I'm gonna stop right there.



Please read my example. I basically copied you word for word (replaced a couple) and it makes just as much sense.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

erocker said:


> Please read my example. I basically copied you word for word (replaced a couple) and it makes just as much sense.



Pirates don't understand how to work for a living. After all its not rape. Its surprise butt sex.

However they are masters at making excuses with massive holes of logic missing.


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## qubit (Mar 3, 2011)

newtekie1 said:


> The problem is that while you can't pirate an online account, you can bypass the login.  Just like the pirated versions of Minecraft do, and they recieve full updates just like a paid user.(Though I hear the update servers for Minecraft will be moving to the same authentications system the multiplayer uses.)
> 
> 
> 
> Correct, it is not stealing, it is piracy.  *The notion that every pirated copy is a lost sale is extremely flawed.  Most people that pirate a game would never buy it.*  I pirated Crysis 2, but I'd never ever consider buying it because it is nothing more than another drab wattered down console port.  Now if they made it a game that at least partially lived up to the original I might consider buying it, but no, they pushed out a giant turd. However, I paid for Minecraft, because it is actually good, and worth the money.  The fact that he is charging a reasonable price helps too, he isn't another one of the big name game developers that charge $60 for the same old recycled console garbage we're used to seeing.



Ahmen, brother. The bold bit, especially.



garyinhere said:


> No one says they are stealing the original. They say they are stealing the copy why is this always the main argument.:shadedshu



By definition a copy is not theft, because the creator still has the original. This is a really painfully elementary error in logic. Of course, Big Effin Media intentionally get this wrong in order to push their corruption onto us and get laws drafted (ACTA, COICA etc) to support their greed. Shit, take two of these Big Media:   

Well worth reading: www.techdirt.com www.p2pnet.net


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## garyinhere (Mar 3, 2011)

qubit said:


> Ahmen, brother. The bold bit, especially.



it's flawed because they wouldn't buy it but will steal it? how is that logic. That's a retard explaining why they shit their pants


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## newtekie1 (Mar 3, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Ah ok. So I guess game making is free now too. Cool.



Who said that? And what does it matter?  You are still missing the concept that most pirated copies are not lost sales.  The pirate would never buy the game if they couldn't pirate it.  So the cost to develope the game doesn't have an effect on piracy not being stealing.  However, if you offer a good value, the game will likely sell in much larger volumes than if you offer a shitty value.  Which is why Notch has made millions on his game, far more than he ever put into developement cost.



garyinhere said:


> it's flawed because they wouldn't buy it but will steal it? how is that logic. That's a retard explaining why they shit their pants



Yes, exactly, they would pirate it for free, but wouldn't pay for it.  I downloaded the entire Metalica library, I fucking hat Metalica, but I still pirated it.  I would have never bought a single one of their CDs, or even gone to one of their concerts.  Pirated will pirate something that is free just to do it, but they won't pay for the same thing if they have to.

You ever go to the grocery store on sample day?  You ever noticed how people will take the sample, but most never even consider actually buying the product?  Same logic.  People will take it when it is free, even if they only marginally want it, but never intend to pay for it.


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## cdawall (Mar 3, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Pirates don't understand how to work for a living. After all its not rape. Its surprise butt sex.
> 
> However they are masters at making excuses with massive holes of logic missing.



i work for a living so do a bunch of people who pirate terrible assumption.


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## Benetanegia (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> Your right! Bad example... I'll go into your house when it's not locked and your not home... I will copy naked pictures of your woman and distribute them. That is not theft! I like your logic



Of course it's not theft. It's burglary and invasion of privacy, which are crimes on their own. But it's not theft.

Pirates do none of that. Piracy is not theft.

The other example is just as flawed. Copying money is not a crime, using and distributing it is. The act of couterfeiting implies the distribution and replacemant of real money. So you can create as many copies of money as you want as long as you keep it at home and don't try to use it as real money. If that makes you feel the richest man in the world... congrats!


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> Of course it's not theft. It's burglary and invasion of privacy, which are crimes on their own. But it's not theft.
> 
> Pirates do none of that. Piracy is not theft.
> 
> The other example is just as flawed. Copying money is not a crime, using and distributing it is. The act of couterfeiting implies the distribution and replacemant of real money. So you can create as many copies of money as you want as long as you keep it at home and don't try to use it as real money. If that makes you feel the richest man in the world... congrats!



In my country even copying it is illegal, but you make a good point.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

newtekie1 said:


> Who said that? And what does it matter?  You are still missing the concept that most pirated copies are not lost sales.  The pirate would never buy the game if they couldn't pirate it.  So the cost to develope the game doesn't have an effect on piracy not being stealing.  However, if you offer a good value, the game will likely sell in much larger volumes than if you offer a shitty value.  Which is why Notch has made millions on his game, far more than he ever put into developement cost.



Its matters because people invest into development houses MILLIONS of dollars. When the game sells poorly they ask why. Well because our game was copied millions of times without paying for it thats why. Next big idea comes along and guess what? No one will invest. THATS how is applies.

You said most pirates would never buy a game. Thats why they pirate. I say most pirate to keep from buying the game. Eliminate pirates and you will have better games. 

Think about something. What if you work years on something. Hoping that someone will buy it once you debut it. Then some piece of shit comes along copies it and enjoys it without ever giving you a dime. Would you be ok with that?

What if we applied that to everything? Doctors for example. They didn't do anything right? They just diagnosed you and treated you like game developers entertained you. Its not like they built the machines they used to heal you right? So why pay them ether? 

I wish people would just admit they are fucking thieves.


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## qubit (Mar 3, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its matters because people invest into development houses MILLIONS of dollars. When the game sells poorly they ask why. Well because our game was copied millions of times without paying for it thats why. Next big idea comes along and guess what? No one will invest. THATS how is applies.
> 
> You said most pirates would never buy a game. Thats why they pirate. I say most pirate to keep from buying the game. Eliminate pirates and you will have better games.
> 
> ...



No, no and _no!_ But we've been here before so no point explaining yet again.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

qubit said:


> No, no and _no!_ But we've been here before so no point explaining yet again.



Yes, yes and yes. Them are the facts.


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its matters because people invest into development houses MILLIONS of dollars. When the game sells poorly they ask why. Well because our game was copied millions of times without paying for it thats why. Next big idea comes along and guess what? No one will invest. THATS how is applies.
> 
> You said most pirates would never buy a game. Thats why they pirate. I say most pirate to keep from buying the game. Eliminate pirates and you will have better games.
> 
> ...





qubit said:


> No, no and _no!_ But we've been here before so no point explaining yet again.



Piracy is not thievery, it's piracy. It's no better than being a thief, if anything it's worse as these people actually feel entitled to taking these game "copies" that some people spent a greater portion of their lives working on to sell to make a living. What does that make them really, I'm not going to judge others. I don't think it's right but that's just me so I don't do it. You're perfectly free to think of pirates as theives, but technically they are classified as something else regardless of how similar they are.


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## qubit (Mar 3, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Yes, yes and yes. Them are the facts.



Shit, this could be the punch and judy show.  

I say _no!!_

Come on, your turn.


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## DannibusX (Mar 3, 2011)

Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh


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## newtekie1 (Mar 3, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its matters because people invest into development houses MILLIONS of dollars. When the game sells poorly they ask why. Well because our game was copied millions of times without paying for it thats why. Next big idea comes along and guess what? No one will invest. THATS how is applies.



Yes, but I've already explained why that logic is flawed.  The game sold poorly because it is a piece of crap, not because pirates pirated it.  If piracy was at fault indie games would never make a profit, neither would any of the big name titles that make huge profits.



TheMailMan78 said:


> You said most pirates would never buy a game. Thats why they pirate. I say most pirate to keep from buying the game. Eliminate pirates and you will have better games.



Which one of us is a pirate?  Guess which one knows why pirates pirate, and if they ever intend to buy the game.



TheMailMan78 said:


> Think about something. What if you work years on something. Hoping that someone will buy it once you debut it. Then some piece of shit comes along copies it and enjoys it without ever giving you a dime. Would you be ok with that?



Doesn't matter if that person would have never bought it anyway.  I'm not out anything.



TheMailMan78 said:


> What if we applied that to everything? Doctors for example. They didn't do anything right? They just diagnosed you and treated you like game developers entertained you. Its not like they built the machines they used to heal you right? So why pay them ether?



I don't pay them, my insurance company does, and if I had to pay my own medical bills, I'd never go to the doctor.  And if I absolutely had to go or I'd die, I'd probably never pay the bill, just like millions of people do.  Of course, if they didn't try to charge me $30 for an asprin, and were actually reasonable, I would be more inclined to pay them.  Actually, this example is a perfect example in my favor, thanks.



TheMailMan78 said:


> I wish people would just admit they are fucking thieves.



I'll admit I'm a pirate, but without any monetary loss on the developers side, I'm not a theif.  They are no worse off because I pirated a their game.


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 3, 2011)

randomflip said:


> I guess the major concern is that they are achieving free access to paid content which in turn makes it unfair for everyone else willing to pay and help fund the developers.



that's exactly it. it creates moral hazard. why should i pay $60 for the game when joe blow pirater gets to play for free.


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## entropy13 (Mar 3, 2011)

erocker said:


> How wonderful, another piracy thread. Perhaps someone can start a PhysX sucks thread and an ATi drivers suck thread as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Right. So the counterfeit is 100% the same as the real money? LOL

In many cases of games the "pirated" copy works even better than the "original."  Which is the 100% now, the pirated copy or the original?


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> that's exactly it. it creates moral hazard. why should i pay $60 for the game when joe blow pirater gets to play for free.



Maybe if joe blow pirater got a heafty fine, or he got blacklisted by ISP's and couldn't have good internet at home anymore it would make people think twice. Honestly, the only reason most people actually pirate at this time is because there's almost zero chance they'll get caught doing it.



entropy13 said:


> Right. So the counterfeit is 100% the same as the real money? LOL
> 
> In many cases of games the "pirated" copy works even better than the "original."  Which is the 100% now, the pirated copy or the original?



As far as my theory goes, the bills are perfect copies. You bring no real argument to my point.


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## qubit (Mar 3, 2011)

erocker said:


> Piracy is not thievery, it's piracy. It's no better than being a thief, if anything it's worse as these people actually feel entitled to taking these game "copies" that some people spent a greater portion of their lives working on to sell to make a living. What does that make them really, I'm not going to judge others. I don't think it's right but that's just me so I don't do it.



There's certainly a moral argument about making that copy, because it might feel wrong to make a copy of something that someone worked hard over. However, that doesn't at all equate to lost sales, as we all know. Heck, it even does lead to increases in sales if the product is any good.

I also detest the implied assumption, that if one couldn't pirate, then they might buy that copy of a song/film/game/qubit's awesome virtual products(tm)/whatever and then discover that they didn't like it and be stuck with it. What right does the producer have to make money by fooling the punter into buying substandard shit?


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## Phxprovost (Mar 3, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its matters because people invest into development houses MILLIONS of dollars. When the game sells poorly they ask why. Well because our game was copied millions of times without paying for it thats why.



Thats amusing with you talking about logic holes and then you post something like this.  If piracy is really the bane of the industry and is responsible for a game being successful or not that then how would one explain COD? A game that is pirated to hell and back yet somehow....manages to rake in *BILLIONS* with each release.... ?


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Mar 3, 2011)

There's some truth to the "they wouldn't buy it anyways" idea, but the keyword is some. There's some that would buy it if they couldn't pirate it. However I don't think the number is actually that large. I can tell you I am very reluctant to buy 360 games, even ones I know I'd probably like. It's just so much money. I've had a 360 since launch but I only have 6 games. You could equate this argument to the used games argument. Many of the used game buyers would simply not buy as many games if they had to pay full price. The developers/publishers aren't losing nearly as many sales as they like to think.


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

qubit said:


> I also detest the implied assumption, that if one couldn't pirate, then they might buy that copy of a song/film/game/qubit's awesome virtual products(tm)/whatever and then discover that they didn't like it and be stuck with it. What right does the producer have to make money by fooling the punter into buying substandard shit?



If I made some software with the intention to sell, I would detest the people who take it for nothing. If I had a means to catch them, I would go after them financially. Buying substandard shit has been the way of the world since we used beads and shells as currency. You're making excuses, not a viable argument.


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## Mr McC (Mar 3, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Yes, yes and yes. Them are the facts.



We've been over this before. It's not simply a question of viewing the two terms as synonyms, which admittedly is both commonplace and understandable:  there is not a single body of legislation, anywhere in the world, where they are not classifed as separate offences and sanctioned as separate offences. Them are the facts and the only facts that matter.


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## cdawall (Mar 3, 2011)

2 pages 31 users viewing the thread


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

newtekie1 said:


> Yes, but I've already explained why that logic is flawed.  The game sold poorly because it is a piece of crap, not because pirates pirated it.  If piracy was at fault indie games would never make a profit, neither would any of the big name titles that make huge profits.


 Its only flawed because it doesn't support your weak argument. This is how the real world works. Sorry if you don't like it.







newtekie1 said:


> Which one of us is a pirate?  Guess which one knows why pirates pirate, and if they ever intend to buy the game.


 Yeah and I used to pirate to. So bad I was in the back of an FBI squad car not once but twice. I did it so I didn't have to pay for shit. Even things that made me money I didn't pay for. So yeah I know why pirates do what they do. Its because they are cheap. I also know why they make excuses.





newtekie1 said:


> Doesn't matter if that person would have never bought it anyway.  I'm not out anything.


 It would matter if your boss stop paying you because it was taken so often without paying for it.





newtekie1 said:


> I don't pay them, my insurance company does, and if I had to pay my own medical bills, I'd never go to the doctor.  And if I absolutely had to go or I'd die, I'd probably never pay the bill, just like millions of people do.  Of course, if they didn't try to charge me $30 for an asprin, and were actually reasonable, I would be more inclined to pay them.  Actually, this example is a perfect example in my favor, thanks..


 Doctors, mechanics this applies to anything thats a service. I guess you don't tip waitresses also. 




newtekie1 said:


> I'll admit I'm a pirate, but without any monetary loss on the developers side, I'm not a theif.  They are no worse off because I pirated a their game.


 I'm sure the artists that loses their job because of you understands.


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## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

WE KNOW PIRACY IS PIRACY NOT STEALING.... doesn't make piracy any better.

Thing is, you are not entitle to pirate. Anyone who defends piracy because they are pirates are worse then thieves. Convincing yourselves that piracy isn't as bad as stealing is just stupid and wrong. I'd prefer if pirates at least ADMITTED to piracy being as bad as stealing

the "I'm a pirate but not a thief because I wouldn't buy it" is just stupid, I HATE when people say that. "I didn't kill him, I just raped him, tortured him, and then suffocated him enough so that he became a vegetable, he's still alive!"


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 3, 2011)

as far as the semantics go, pirates are indeed thieves. pirates steal goods from merchants and other nationals on the high seas. 

so what many of you are saying is that making a digital copy of something without paying for it is not piracy.

what's more, piracy is thievery because you may not be stealing a physical product but instead you are using a licensed product without the license. it is what pirate radio is today.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Mar 3, 2011)

Ugh. Please don't bring moral bullshit into this.

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2199879&postcount=20


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 3, 2011)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> Ugh. Please don't bring moral bullshit into this.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2199879&postcount=20



really? leave moral arguments out of piracy? that's like saying leave morality out of the law.


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## qubit (Mar 3, 2011)

erocker said:


> If I made some software with the intention to sell, I would detest the people who take it for nothing. If I had a means to catch them, I would go after them financially. Buying substandard shit has been the way of the world since we used beads and shells as currency. You're making excuses, not a viable argument.



No excuses.

So, because people got away with duping people into buying substandard shit for ages, it's therefore right and proper to do this and should be allowed to continue? Are you really saying this? :shadedshu

Following this logic, frauds, scams, burglaries and other crimes should be encouraged, because they've always been around.


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## Kreij (Mar 3, 2011)

The piracy/anti-piracy issue has been discussed in numerous thread before. No one will ever agree.

To keep this a little more on topic, let's discuss why the creator of Minecraft (whose game has been pirated) feels that the people who pirate games are potential customers.


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

qubit said:


> No excuses.
> 
> So, because people got away with duping people into buying substandard shit for ages, it's therefore right and proper to do this and should be allowed to continue? Are you really saying this? :shadedshu
> 
> Following this logic, frauds, scams, burglaries and other crimes should be encouraged, because they've always been around.



So you're saying that pirating people's (substandard or not) work (i.e. software, etc.) is a solution? Very interesting way about it. Yes, I'm really saying this, stating "Are you really saying this?" doesn't make it any less of the truth.



Kreij said:


> To keep this a little more on topic, let's discuss why the creator of Minecraft (whose game has been pirated) feels that the people who pirate games are potential customers.



Okay, the creator of Minecraft can make a pretty addicting and fun game, but doesn't have a clue when it comes to ethics and/or piracy.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

qubit said:


> No excuses.
> 
> So, because people got away with duping people into buying substandard shit for ages, it's therefore right and proper to do this and should be allowed to continue? Are you really saying this? :shadedshu
> 
> Following this logic, frauds, scams, burglaries and other crimes should be encouraged, because they've always been around.



lulz if you buy a shitting game nowadays your an idiot. Gone are the days of reading biased reviews in Nintendopower. Ever heard of Metacritic?


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## qubit (Mar 3, 2011)

Kreij said:


> The piracy/anti-piracy issue has been discussed in numerous thread before. *No one will ever agree.*



I agree with that!


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## ShiBDiB (Mar 3, 2011)

I think notch is saying game dev's need to make games worth not pirating. Like minecraft is ok when pirated, but the real fun lies in the multiplayer which you need to purchase to play.


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## garyinhere (Mar 3, 2011)




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## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> I think notch is saying game dev's need to make games worth not pirating. Like minecraft is ok when pirated, but the real fun lies in the multiplayer which you need to purchase to play.



this destroys PC gaming. No more single player games >.>


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## ShiBDiB (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> http://img.techpowerup.org/110302/Capture123.jpg



I dont like babies...


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> http://img.techpowerup.org/110302/Capture123.jpg



You see! You see what you did newtekie1! You killed a fucking baby!


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## garyinhere (Mar 3, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> I dont like babies...



Then the Terrorists win... Happy now?


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## Mr McC (Mar 3, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> as far as the semantics go, pirates are indeed thieves. pirates steal goods from merchants and other nationals on the high seas.
> 
> so what many of you are saying is that making a digital copy of something without paying for it is not piracy.
> 
> what's more, piracy is thievery because you may not be stealing a physical product but instead you are using a licensed product without the license. it is what pirate radio is today.



Hold on, we're discussing piracy as copyright infringement, not Bluebeard 

I can accept that, in many instances, piracy and stealing are equally deserving of criticism and sanction, but I believe that it is unnecessary and unproductive to insist on defining them as one and the same thing, particularly when no law backs up this approach.


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## ShiBDiB (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> Then the Terrorists win... Happy now?



would be funny if 4 other air force cops didnt get shot today.. ill laugh tmw tho


edit: holy ninja modding, posts disappear quicker then i can respond to them


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 3, 2011)

RejZoR said:


> It's really hard to pirate their games and they "force" you to use their DRM Steam...


Steam games are easy to pirate.  Warez groups have basically packed all the circumvention routines in a file or two.  All they have to do is include those files with the game and make a few minor tweaks to the game executable and bam, it is free of Steam.

Tages and Star-Force were/are the hardest DRMs to break but they also cause the most problems with people's computers.  Because of all the complaints, most major publishers don't use either.


Oh, and Minecraft's DRM with requring login has prevented a lot of legitimate players from playing for long periods before.  It gets pirated a lot but people that pirate it can't play on multiplayer servers that require authentication.  Most games have used the same model for the multiplayer features of their products.


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## garyinhere (Mar 3, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> leave moral arguments out of piracy?



Morals are a personal thing. Imposing your morals on other's is not right. Laws are enforced with out emotions for a reason.


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## Kreij (Mar 3, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> I think notch is saying game dev's need to make games worth not pirating. Like minecraft is ok when pirated, but the real fun lies in the multiplayer which you need to purchase to play.



You can play a pirated version of Minecraft on a server that is set up to allow insecure connections.


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## ShiBDiB (Mar 3, 2011)

Kreij said:


> You can play a pirated version of Minecraft on a server that is set up to allow insecure connections.



u can? ...... good talk guys ill b back later


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> Morals are a personal thing. Imposing your morals on other's is not right. Laws are enforced with out emotions for a reason.



a civil society bases its laws on morality and ethics. just about every first world country attains to this basic axoim passed down to us by thinkers like plato and socrates.


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## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

Shouldn't we be staying on-topic instead of showing babies on a stick and then making comments on that?

In a sense, piracy is a very good demo for MP games

MORALS MAKE LAWS. IN SOME COUNTRIES, IT USED TO BE OK TO KILL A WOMEN CAUSE YOU SUSPECTED SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR. why? It was morally correct, therefore the law accepted that


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> u can? ...... good talk guys ill b back later



And boom goes the dynamite!


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## cdawall (Mar 3, 2011)

ok jist of the thread and


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## garyinhere (Mar 3, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> a civil society bases its laws on morality and ethics. just about every first world country attains to this basic axoim passed down to us by thinkers like plato and socrates.



that was a culture that was based on having sex with boys and is now dead...



n-ster said:


> MORALS MAKE LAWS. IN SOME COUNTRIES, IT USED TO BE OK TO KILL A WOMEN CAUSE YOU SUSPECTED SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR. why? It was morally correct, therefore the law accepted that



The Morals your talking about is based on religion... Which religion is correct again?


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> that was a culture that was based on having sex with boys and is now dead...



what? i didnt say there is a defined morality. and i know you are trolling but laws are what a society agrees to be moral and ethical.


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## alexsubri (Mar 3, 2011)




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## garyinhere (Mar 3, 2011)

n-ster said:


> MORALS MAKE LAWS. IN SOME COUNTRIES, IT USED TO BE OK TO KILL A WOMEN CAUSE YOU SUSPECTED SHE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR. why? It was morally correct, therefore the law accepted that



The Morals your talking about is based on religion... Which religion is correct again?


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 3, 2011)

OMGROFL PIRACY WINS OMG LEEETKJDSLKFSJ LJDFLJDFLKJSFDLJSDFLJ


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## Benetanegia (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> The Morals your talking about is based on religion... Which religion is correct again?



It's more like religions are a way to impose morals to the masses without the need to justify them.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

Save the planet! Steal some shit!


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 3, 2011)

leet warez room, yo


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

Benetanegia said:


> It's more like religions are a way to impose morals to the masses without the need to justify them.



True, but a lot of morals that religion "preach" or whatever has to do with a reason. Along the lines of "Don't do this" why? "It hurts this, that or this person" kind of stuff.


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## JrRacinFan (Mar 3, 2011)

My take on it: Always will have piracy no matter what.

A pirate will always be a pirate and where there's a pirate there is the honest (^refer to morals above) consumer. 

But to be on the "devil's advocate" role, there is no license needed to run a no disc crack correct? So there needs to be a better definition of piracy.


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## Kreij (Mar 3, 2011)

Once again we will never get out of this debate with any consensus.
I'm going to go play Minecraft on the TPU server, which is more interesting that rehashing this again ... and again ... and again ... and again.


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 3, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> http://cdn.pwnage.ro/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/warez-room-wins.jpg
> 
> leet warez room, yo


Bet that's in China. :X


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 3, 2011)

savvy?


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

Kreij said:


> Once again we will never get out of this debate with any consensus.


I couldn't agree more. Sooooooo.....

Yarrrrrr! http://cristgaming.com/pirate.swf

Everyone sing and dance!      

Honestly, even though this is a "serious" discussion, it's allright to be lighthearted about it. No reason to go after each other's necks about it.


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> savvy?
> 
> http://a.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/29424/johnny_jpg_627x325_crop_upscale_q85.jpg



Not so savvy


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## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> The Morals your talking about is based on religion... Which religion is correct again?



This is simple ignorance. It was not based on religion at all. For example, the example I gave you came from a third-world Muslim country. However, Islam promotes equality etc etc. Hell, in my religion (a small sect of Islam), women are arguably more important then men (because factually speaking, they have a bigger impact on the children), violence is not tolerated, and we are taught to help everyone in need.


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 3, 2011)

yarrr i be coming aboard ye ship to steal ye warez


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## garyinhere (Mar 3, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> savvy?
> 
> http://a.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/29424/johnny_jpg_627x325_crop_upscale_q85.jpg



i see your pirate and raise you this one!


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## JrRacinFan (Mar 3, 2011)

IBTL, getting out of hand.


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## alexsubri (Mar 3, 2011)




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## garyinhere (Mar 3, 2011)

I wish i could quite you MailMan


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> I wish i could quite you MailMan



Spit on it first


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## n-ster (Mar 3, 2011)

JrRacinFan said:


> IBTL, getting out of hand.



lol even mods are contributing to the fail of this thread


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> yarrr i be coming aboard ye ship to steal ye warez
> 
> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_E-QOnTGFX_o/S7IYTptdb7I/AAAAAAAAJcE/1XXZqmXNGuc/s1600/Trinkat3.jpg



You aint finna steal my warz!


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## ShiBDiB (Mar 3, 2011)

im proud of my thread


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

n-ster said:


> lol even mods are contributing to the fail of this thread



I believe our point is starting to get across in relation to these types of threads.


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## ShiBDiB (Mar 3, 2011)

k im done.. i think this can be locked now


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 3, 2011)

mailman is on the left, gary is on the right


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## JrRacinFan (Mar 3, 2011)

n-ster said:


> lol even mods are contributing to the fail of this thread



Getting quite annoying tbh. 

**stops posting in this epic thread**


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## TheMailMan78 (Mar 3, 2011)

ShiBDiB said:


> http://flannelcrat.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/pirates-demotivational-poster.jpg
> 
> 
> k im done.. i think this can be locked now



Is newtekie1 your wench?



Easy Rhino said:


> mailman is on the left, gary is on the right
> 
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3112/2644969615_74e21b03d2.jpg


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## garyinhere (Mar 3, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> mailman is on the left, gary is on the right
> 
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3112/2644969615_74e21b03d2.jpg



troll got trolled
& sneeky's the voyeur taking the pics


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## erocker (Mar 3, 2011)

JrRacinFan said:


> Getting quite annoying tbh.
> 
> **stops posting in this epic thread**



 Before any of us annoy another member on this forum. Sometimes it's allright to have fun, but it's time to call it quits. 

I was just waiting for my cue.

Pull the anchor, set the sails and close this thread.


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