# Ethereum Mining Wipes Out Radeon Inventory, AMD Stock Rallies



## btarunr (Jun 7, 2017)

AMD Radeon graphics cards have always been too good at GPGPU for their own good. The new Ethereum block-chain compute network, with the Ethereum crypto-currency, works really _really_ good with AMD Radeon Graphics CoreNext architecture-based GPUs (that's every AMD GPU since Radeon HD 7000 series). As a result, not only have Ethereum prospectors bought out nearly all inventory of AMD Radeon graphics cards from the market, but also forced an inflation of used AMD Radeon graphics cards on online tech-forums, and used-goods stores on eBay and Amazon. Some of these used cards are priced higher than even launch-prices.

Every $1,000 spent on AMD Radeon hardware towards Ethereum mining is recovered within 2 months, and then as long as your hardware lasts and you're paying your power bills, you're swimming in crypto-currency that can be converted to Bitcoin and even US Dollars. One Ethereum (ETH) exchanges to USD $265 at the time of this writing. There's already $330 million worth Ethereum being traded, and that number is only going to grow as people sell USD or BTC to buy ETH and pay for entry into the Ethereum network, and use ETH as a crypto-currency. 






AMD is at the receiving end of this mad rush to grab up Radeon graphics cards. The company's stock surged nearly 9 percent on Tuesday (6th June). Those shorting (betting against) the AMD stock have been inflicted with heavy losses. "As of Monday, AMD short-sellers had been up about $15 million for 2017. But Tuesday's share surge left them at a loss of $125 million on paper for the year," writes Reuters, citing S3 Partners, a financial analytics firm. The AMD stock was also bolstered by Apple's announcement of new iMac, iMac Pro, and Macbooks that use AMD Radeon graphics chips.

ETH-USD chart by Coingecko, Source: Reuters

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## R0H1T (Jun 7, 2017)

Yeah I was just expecting ETH to explode for a few weeks now, let's just hope it doesn't explode in someone's face. Also why doesn't *AMD mine ETH* themselves, I thought the same could/should/would happen during the BTC or LTC boom? I bet they can make 10x the profit they'd otherwise make by selling these GPU's & some of us investing directly into ETH would get 2~10x our money's worth & then some


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## RejZoR (Jun 7, 2017)

Crypto currencies should be banned by law. This crap is the most useless thing humanity has done right after the fidget spinners. Computing some useless numbers, wasting gigawats of power on it for what exactly? Go and do compute on cancer and HIV research, but crypto currency? WHY!? No to mention it fucks up the graphics market yet again.


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## R-T-B (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Crypto currencies should be banned by law. This crap is the most useless thing humanity has done right after the fidget spinners. Computing some useless numbers, wasting gigawats of power on it for what exactly? Go and do compute on cancer and HIV research, but crypto currency? WHY!? No to mention it fucks up the graphics market yet again.



What do video games do for people?

This powers a payment network.

I hate what's happening too, but crypto is overall a good thing for humanity and a ban is NOT the answer.  One of the goals of the Ethereum network is to eventually be able to submit useful jobs to the network you are aware, right?


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## R0H1T (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Crypto currencies should be banned by law. This crap is the most useless thing humanity has done right after the fidget spinners. Computing some useless numbers, *wasting gigawats of power* on it for what exactly? Go and do compute on cancer and HIV research, but crypto currency? WHY!? No to mention it fucks up the graphics market yet again.


Definitely, that's why investing directly is better IMO. Having said that a lot of blame goes to miners & speculators, if you're doing something useful with your GPU (even gaming) then that makes sense, how does anyone justify wasting tons of (fossil fuel) resources in order to make a quick buck or two? Where does the European community, who're always going on & on about climate change as opposed to their cousins across the Atlantic, stand on this issue?


R-T-B said:


> What do video games do for people?
> 
> This powers a payment network.


Which is illegal in most parts of the world, for good reason too!


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## R-T-B (Jun 7, 2017)

R0H1T said:


> Which is illegal in most parts of the world, for good reason too!



A few odd countries is not "most parts of the world"

And as I stated in my admittedly ninja-edit, Ethereum power is not wasted as they are essentially setting up a global supercomputer for hire.


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## R0H1T (Jun 7, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> A few odd countries is not "most parts of the world"


You're talking about crypto currencies, or just the one in BTC?


R-T-B said:


> And as I stated in my admittedly ninja-edit, Ethereum power is not wasted as they are essentially *setting up a global supercomputer* for hire.


How so?


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## R-T-B (Jun 7, 2017)

R0H1T said:


> You're talking about crypto currencies, or just the one in BTC?



Either/or.  Most of the world is a bold claim.  Maybe most of the third-world.



R0H1T said:


> How so?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethereum

First line, second sentence.


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## notb (Jun 7, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> What do video games do for people?



Games are a form of entertainment. This is important.

Mind you, there's nothing wrong in wanting to earn some money with mining (I'd try myself one day).
But fundamentally this is just a waste of resources. 



R-T-B said:


> A few odd countries is not "most parts of the world"
> 
> And as I stated in my admittedly ninja-edit, Ethereum power is not wasted as they are essentially setting up a global supercomputer for hire.



And what is this "global supercomputer for hire" doing? 

I agree with @RejZoR - it would be a lot better if we had a "paid" computation project for HIV cure or something like that.

Cryptocurrencies didn't give us anything useful, but they did provide issues (apart from the wasted energy, obviously). They can drive gear prices. Potentially they could even impact the value of normal currencies.
The anonymity gave a boost to illegal activities - both online (Silk Road, ransomware) and physical (even kidnappers demand bitcoin these days - no "put the bag in the trash" anymore).


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## R-T-B (Jun 7, 2017)

> And what is this "global supercomputer for hire" doing?



At the moment, not much.  Mostly because a lot of it is disabled as they go through several testing "growth phases." But as the network matures it theoretically could be used for whatever, HIV cure included.  It's turing complete.


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## damric (Jun 7, 2017)

Would it be a good time to list my HD 7850s on ebay then? What should I expect to get for them...


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## killa007 (Jun 7, 2017)

damric said:


> Would it be a good time to list my HD 7850s on ebay then? What should I expect to get for them...


nothing cuz eth require at least 3gb of memory to mine, maybe even 4 already, since its going up.


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## uuuaaaaaa (Jun 7, 2017)

So it's time to gimp my Fury X to R9 nano levels so that I can buy moar hardware couple months down the road.


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## RejZoR (Jun 7, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> What do video games do for people?
> 
> This powers a payment network.
> 
> I hate what's happening too, but crypto is overall a good thing for humanity and a ban is NOT the answer.  One of the goals of the Ethereum network is to eventually be able to submit useful jobs to the network you are aware, right?



Entertainment, relaxation, trainig motoric and cognitive skills. Games are already ahead with its purpose.

How to spot a butthurt miner. Just say mining is crap and they'll lash at you like hardcore vegans. Stop being cultists mkay?


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## silentbogo (Jun 7, 2017)

R0H1T said:


> Which is illegal in most parts of the world, for good reason too!


There is a big difference between "illegal" and "prohibited to financial institutions".
E.g. in countries like China, India, Russia (which already qualifies as "most of the world" in terms of population), cryptocurrency cannot be used by banks for obvious tax evasion/money laundering reasons. However, general population is allowed to use crypto without regulations. 
Most of the South and Central americas are completely unregulated (except Bolivia and Equador). 
Entire North America, most of EU etc. etc. etc. 
Some African countries depend on cryptocurrencies(largely BTC) as the most available and reliable method of payment.



RejZoR said:


> Crypto currencies should be banned by law. This crap is the most useless thing humanity has done right after the fidget spinners. Computing some useless numbers, wasting gigawats of power on it for what exactly? Go and do compute on cancer and HIV research, but crypto currency? WHY!? No to mention it fucks up the graphics market yet again.


That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
1) It is not useless, it is quite useful. Just like Paypal started a revolution in digital currency and immediate transfers, BTC allows people to do the same without limits, where Paypal is not available.
I know that from personal experience, because my government f#cked up negotiations with PayPal reps at least on 3 occasions (2008-2013) and services are still not provided to Ukraine. Formerly popular Webmoney is also restricted to the point of being useless.
2) For the reasons above, your second argument on waste of resources also does not make much sense.
3) It does not f%$k up graphics card market. It only affects the used GPU market. Just like PS3 and XBox 360 deficit back in a day, it will come to balance eventually.


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## Prima.Vera (Jun 7, 2017)

This is good for AMD. Their cards suck for latest games anyways. Specially on 1440p or above resolution...
For mining they are perfect though.

I wonder, what would happened if nVidia would release a dedicated Bios & Driver for crypto mining....


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## R-T-B (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> How to spot a butthurt miner. Just say mining is crap and they'll lash at you like hardcore vegans. Stop being cultists mkay?



As someone who lost a lot of money in bitcoin, and wouldn't mine again if you paid my electric, I am most certainly not a "cultist."  Stop trying to discredit those who don't share your ideals, it's rude and you're bad at it.


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## RejZoR (Jun 7, 2017)

So, you had a very bad experience, but you still feel the need to defend it. Totally not like a cult, right? Think whatever you want, I don't care. It's stupid.


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## mistme (Jun 7, 2017)

The idiocracy by rejzor marches on while tpu is being covered in trash.


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## TheGuruStud (Jun 7, 2017)

I see more and more idiots on TPU making outrageous posts. Are they turning into trolls? Have they been trolls all along? Are they going senile? Did someone piss in their cheerios?

Central banks have/are adopting cryptocurrency. Super, ultra, mega, faiiiiil posts. Good work, bub.

Almost sounds as if someone sold tons of BTC for nothing, then it blew up, and they're on the verge of suicide for  basically losing hundreds of thousands LOL


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## R-T-B (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> So, you had a very bad experience, but you still feel the need to defend it. Totally not like a cult, right?



No, because unlike a cult I actually think for myself.

Sersiously dude.  What do you think they strapped me down and made me mine until I loved it?



> Almost sounds as if someone sold tons of BTC for nothing, then it blew up, and they're on the verge of suicide for basically losing hundreds of thousands LOL



Ironically, minus the suicide, yeah that's me.  I defend it because I see its benefits and I'm not actually defending BTC as much as what I see as it's natural evolution, Ethereum.

Crypto is here to stay, because rational people can see its benefit.  The world has needed a currency free of banks since we lost the gold standard.


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## RejZoR (Jun 7, 2017)

So, having an opinion over certain thing being retarded is not allowed anymore. Wiu wiu wiu wiu thought police incoming!


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## silentbogo (Jun 7, 2017)




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## R-T-B (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> So, having an opinion over certain thing being retarded is not allowed anymore. Wiu wiu wiu wiu thought police incoming!



No, it's allowed.  Just like me calling you "rude" for bashing my counter-opinion and comparing it to a cult is allowed.  Deal with it.

Anyways, I'm out of this thread.  Way too much animosity here.


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## TheGuruStud (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> So, having an opinion over certain thing being retarded is not allowed anymore. Wiu wiu wiu wiu thought police incoming!



No. It's not that. You're just undeniably wrong. You might as well be defending the logic of religion.


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## geon2k2 (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Crypto currencies should be banned by law. This crap is the most useless thing humanity has done right after the fidget spinners. Computing some useless numbers, wasting gigawats of power on it for what exactly? Go and do compute on cancer and HIV research, but crypto currency? WHY!? No to mention it fucks up the graphics market yet again.




Its a waste of resources as compared to what?

At least quarter billion people working directly or supporting the banking system all around the world?

Now that's a waste of resources and those people could be far more useful to humanity.
Let the machines crunch the numbers and use the human creativity for Cancer or HIV research.

PS: i never mined, and I don't own any digital currency.


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## RejZoR (Jun 7, 2017)

TheGuruStud said:


> No. It's not that. You're just undeniably wrong. You might as well be defending the logic of religion.



"Undeniably wrong" Based on what? Your opinion? The holy bible of Crypto currencies?


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## trog100 (Jun 7, 2017)

the world works in strange ways but money for nothing for the masses has to have a bad ending.. crypto mining which equates to money for nothing to me cant end well..

at least in my old fashioned way of thinking.. he he..

trog

ps.. i did read somewhere that 10.000 put into bitcoin back in 2010 would be worth over 30 million now.. okay for a lucky few but when the world and his dog get in on the act who the f-ck knows..


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## mistme (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Entertainment, relaxation, trainig motoric and cognitive skills. Games are already ahead with its purpose.
> 
> How to spot a butthurt miner. Just say mining is crap and they'll lash at you like hardcore vegans. Stop being cultists mkay?





RejZoR said:


> So, having an opinion over certain thing being retarded is not allowed anymore. Wiu wiu wiu wiu thought police incoming!



Nothing like an idiot crying for freedom of speech while being offensive to others.


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## ZoneDymo (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> So, having an opinion over certain thing being retarded is not allowed anymore. Wiu wiu wiu wiu thought police incoming!



Well calling something "retarded" as a means to insult is morally not allowed, so there is that.
And well an opinion is always allowed, but is only worth something through arguments.

And while I have no clue what all this is about I do also want to add that many times people dont seem to understand what an opinion is, for example saying that in your opinion the Statue of Liberty is 2 meters tall is just plain wrong.

EDIT, read it a bit and well about you just being wrong I guess we need to refer back to @killa007 's post which while admittingly comes across way too hostile and therefor a little childish, they make a lot of points towards what makes it actually useful.
So stating its useless is simply wrong.

and to the hostility, I feel sadly that this website has also been consumed in the maelstrom of negativity these days.
Idk what is going on in the world, but man people sure are angry these days and everywhere...well atleast everywhere on the internet.
Sad stuff.


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## Solid State Brain (Jun 7, 2017)

Isn't "Etherium" supposed to be spelled "Ethereum"?


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## RejZoR (Jun 7, 2017)

mistme said:


> Nothing like an idiot crying for freedom of speech while being offensive to others.



Because that's LITERALLY what freedom of speech is. It's you who is apparently offended by my opinion that crypto currencies are retarded. What the hell you even wanted to say with this line, because it's an oxymoronic.



ZoneDymo said:


> Well calling something "retarded" as a means to insult is morally not allowed, so there is that.
> And well an opinion is always allowed, but is only worth something through arguments.
> 
> And while I have no clue what all this is about I do also want to add that many times people dont seem to understand what an opinion is, for example saying that in your opinion the Statue of Liberty is 2 meters tall is just plain wrong.
> ...



I'm calling the CRYPTO CURRENCY retarded, not you or any [insert person]. Learn a god damn difference.


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## EntropyZ (Jun 7, 2017)

Welp, it's a desert in Europe for a month I think, now if I wanted a GPU, I would be forced to buy a GeForce card. And I just got this fresh Freesync capable monitor, whhhyyyyy?!

Or maybe I can wait a year and pick up an RX 580 for almost half or the price a year later, by then VEGA should be out I guess.


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## ZoneDymo (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Because that's LITERALLY what freedom of speech is. It's you who is apparently offended by my opinion that crypto currencies are retarded. What the hell you even wanted to say with this line, because it's an oxymoronic.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm calling the CRYPTO CURRENCY retarded, not you or any [insert person]. Learn a god damn difference.



Hence I said something and not someone...learn 2 read.
And did I not just make a remark about all the negativity? no need to start lashing out like a child yourself now as well.

Lastly, I think @mistme was making a point about how many people seem to hate on other people for calling them out on bad behavior, claiming they have a right to freedom of speech, yet then ignore the same right of those people to criticize them for it.


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## Nokiron (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Crypto currencies should be banned by law. This crap is the most useless thing humanity has done right after the fidget spinners. Computing some useless numbers, wasting gigawats of power on it for what exactly? Go and do compute on cancer and HIV research, but crypto currency? WHY!? No to mention it fucks up the graphics market yet again.


Oh, someone ignorant is bashing cryptocoins again.

There are gridcoin (BOINC), curecoin (Folding@Home) , foldingcoin (Folding@Home) for you to choose from if you want to help science in the process.



notb said:


> I agree with @RejZoR - it would be a lot better if we had a "paid" computation project for HIV cure or something like that.


Well, they already exist and are listed above.


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## RejZoR (Jun 7, 2017)

You guys shoud go mining salt instead of "bitcoins". Really good at it XD


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## R0H1T (Jun 7, 2017)

geon2k2 said:


> Its a waste of resources as compared to what?
> 
> At least quarter billion people working directly or supporting the banking system all around the world?
> 
> ...


You know there's stupid & then there's this 

So you think people who walk a mile or two to work, in a bank, or commute 2~4 hours to/from work are a waste of resource? As compared to what - slobs sitting in a chair mining bazillions of BTC/LTC/ETH spending literally tons of fossil fuel in the process! The ones putting multi billion $ bets on stocks, not their money of course, are a different kind of <insert cute insult> & not worth debating, for what happened in 2008, but the regular joe is just as hard working as any other person out there.

Yeah there's an argument that the current financial system in place is inefficient, then again there are digital wallets out there which are just as efficient as any crypto currency, though not as untraceable as them. There is a reason why it's in demand, & no it's got more to do with shadiness than just anonymity or security!

Also apart from ETH, which still needs to be proven that it can do what R-T-B is saying, which other currency is doing anything for humanity? While we're at it why don't we ask everyone employed in the banking system to sit on their fat asses at home & mine ETH, that'll teach them! Then again next time you go to a hospital why don't you furnish BTC or whatever as a mode of payment, *NO* so how come your crypto currency needs to be converted into real money for it to be useful?


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## rtwjunkie (Jun 7, 2017)

mistme said:


> And as far as freedom of speech and low tpu standards, Rejzor, go kill yourself you fucking piece of shit.



So, nobody ever taught you proper debate skills, huh?


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## Dante Uchiha (Jun 7, 2017)

ETHER*E*UM. -_-


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## RCoon (Jun 7, 2017)

Anybody deciding to tell members to go kill themselves can direct themselves towards the forum guidelines to avoid getting banned. This is a topic for debate, not a poo slinging match. Put your big boy pants on and talk like adults.


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## Caring1 (Jun 7, 2017)

Dante Uchiha said:


> ETHER*E*UM. -_-


Pointless arguing spelling on an international website. There is no one universal way to spell things (yet).
I'm waiting for someone to make an Asic that can mine Etherium, that way GPU's will be freed up for their original intended use.


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## EarthDog (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Entertainment, relaxation, trainig motoric and cognitive skills. Games are already ahead with its purpose.
> 
> How to spot a butthurt miner. Just say mining is crap and they'll lash at you like hardcore vegans. Stop being cultists mkay?


there isnt a need for that type of attitude either...So toxic....

A cult? Wth???!!!

Its also offensive when you say something is retarded. Are you 10 years old or simply prefer to use zero discretion and show no class when speaking? Shame on you.


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## R-T-B (Jun 7, 2017)

R0H1T said:


> You know there's stupid & then there's this
> 
> So you think people who walk a mile or two to work, in a bank, or commute 2~4 hours to/from work are a waste of resource? As compared to what - slobs sitting in a chair mining bazillions of BTC/LTC/ETH spending literally tons of fossil fuel in the process! The ones putting multi billion $ bets on stocks, not their money of course, are a different kind of <insert cute insult> & not worth debating, for what happened in 2008, but the regular joe is just as hard working as any other person out there.
> 
> ...



Speaking as an experienced miner, it is not a "sit on your ass all day" job by any means.  Your house will burn down if you try this.

And a lot of mining is done in the energy rich hydro powered Puget sound region and surround, by the way.



Caring1 said:


> Pointless arguing spelling on an international website. There is no one universal way to spell things (yet).



Actually, for something with a governing body and registered name (which Ethereum has) there most certainly is.


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## R0H1T (Jun 7, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> Speaking as an experienced miner, it is not a "sit on your ass all day" job by any means.
> 
> And a lot of mining is done in the energy rich hydro powered Puget sound, by the way.


That was slightly hyperbolic on my part, just to highlight the point that a quarter of a billion people are doing real work out there as compared to say miners who're letting the GPU do whatever it is doing. ETH & some alternative currencies are interesting but wouldn't it be fair to say that the vast majority of power/resources spent on mining crypto XYZ would be better spent elsewhere?


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## R-T-B (Jun 7, 2017)

R0H1T said:


> ETH & some alternative currencies are interesting but would it be fair to say that the vast majority of power/resources spent on mining crypto XYZ would be better spend elsewhere?



I honestly believe if people weren't getting paid, you wouldn't have this network elsewhere.  It simply would not exist.  It would be in peoples PCs churning out FPS.  Very few people do distributed compute, certainly not on the scale of mining now.  It's sad but that is what we have.


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## EarthDog (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Stupid -> Stupider -> Most stupeder? Is that better way of classifying something instead of just calling it retarded? Why are you all so butthurt over me expressing opinion that cryptocurrencies are so stupid they are literally retarded? It's just a word, damn it.


Just saying there is a way to get your point across without the insults, flamebait, and use of offensive words.


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## R-T-B (Jun 7, 2017)

EarthDog said:


> Just saying there is a way to get your point across without the insults, flamebait, and use of offensive words.



We all need to try and remember this.


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## Dante Uchiha (Jun 7, 2017)

Caring1 said:


> Pointless arguing spelling on an international website. There is no one universal way to spell things (yet).
> I'm waiting for someone to make an Asic that can mine Etherium, that way GPU's will be freed up for their original intended use.



No way, that's not going to happen. Ether team will not allow.

What can happen is to adopt the POS pattern.


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## R0H1T (Jun 7, 2017)

R-T-B said:


> I honestly believe if people weren't getting paid, you wouldn't have this network elsewhere.  It simply would not exist.  It would be in peoples PCs *churning out FPS*.  Very few people do distributed compute, certainly not on the scale of mining now.  It's sad but that is what we have.


Not sure there'd be thousands of GPU's running games *24/7*


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## notb (Jun 7, 2017)

TheGuruStud said:


> Central banks have/are adopting cryptocurrency. Super, ultra, mega, faiiiiil posts. Good work, bub.


Central banks are adopting cryptocurrencies because this system needs regulation, not because cryptocurrencies are great.
The idea here is that people could be persuaded to use a "FEDcoin" instead of a Bitcoin (or other variants).
The minimal requirement for a stable currency is being able to control the amount of money - something that we don't have with the non-state cryptocurrencies. Another point would be to track the coins, which can be done (some BTC wallets do this). A cryptocurrency stored on a server in central bank would not be anonymous and hence hard to use for illegal transaction.



R-T-B said:


> I honestly believe if people weren't getting paid, you wouldn't have this network elsewhere.  It simply would not exist.  It would be in peoples PCs churning out FPS.  Very few people do distributed compute, certainly not on the scale of mining now.  It's sad but that is what we have.



This could be simply solved by paying people for taking part in distributed computing. With real money.

We know that there will be 21 mln bitcoins - that's under 60 bln USD at current quote.
Ransomware attacks are expected to cost billions USD each year, so it's not like there isn't a way to gather funds. 

Plus, there isn't really any guarantee that Ethereum network will ever be used for something useful. Personally, I really don't believe this will happen with Ethereum or any other mining network, but I'd love to be wrong.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 7, 2017)

It is what it is , some hate on folding at home so the hate shown here is to be expected but i wish people would research it before passing out opinions.
Eth has actually a purpose and a dev platform to use gpu cycles ,it is work ,kinda like being a shit server it guy.


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## ensabrenoir (Jun 7, 2017)

R0H1T said:


> Yeah I was just expecting ETH to explode for a few weeks now, let's just hope it doesn't explode in someone's face.* Also why doesn't AMD mine ETH themselves*, I thought the same could/should/would happen during the BTC or LTC boom? I bet they can make 10x the profit they'd otherwise make by selling these GPU's & some of us investing directly into ETH would get 2~10x our money's worth & then some



....Amd is currently mining *WIN*inium.


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## cdawall (Jun 7, 2017)

Well this thread is a shit show.


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## DSharp (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Crypto currencies should be banned by law. This crap is the most useless thing humanity has done right after the fidget spinners. Computing some useless numbers, wasting gigawats of power on it for what exactly? Go and do compute on cancer and HIV research, but crypto currency? WHY!? No to mention it fucks up the graphics market yet again.


Good little sheeple. Outlaw being in control of your own destiny, financial or otherwise. Lets let international bankers decide what's good for us like we already do with the Federal Reserve.


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## rtwjunkie (Jun 7, 2017)

DSharp said:


> Lets let international bankers decide what's good for us like we already do with the Federal Reserve.


Two separate entities with different functions. If you are going to use examples, use correct ones.


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## Tatty_One (Jun 7, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> It is what it is , some hate on folding at home so the hate shown here is to be expected but i wish people would research it before passing out opinions.
> Eth has actually a purpose and a dev platform to use gpu cycles ,it is work ,kinda like being a shit server it guy.



Well that's just the point, rarely are opinions based on fact, if they researched that may prevent them from having the opinion that they want, all too often people have opinions on something's that they have no experience of themselves but they have the right to them nevertheless.  Not sure what all this "Freedom of Speech" stuff is, it does not exist on the internet and I don't exercise it here unless it can be done in a mature manner, freedom is earnt and unless it is legislative it remains discretionary


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## Steevo (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Because that's LITERALLY what freedom of speech is. It's you who is apparently offended by my opinion that crypto currencies are retarded. What the hell you even wanted to say with this line, because it's an oxymoronic.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm calling the CRYPTO CURRENCY retarded, not you or any [insert person]. Learn a god damn difference.




I fundamentally disagree with your stance on crypto currency, but respect your right to have that opinion.

I add my two cents as, if you have nothing invested, why do you care what others do with their money, time, and electricity? Sure we could have a discussion about energy use and its effects, but perhaps the contracts being filled by the "mining" are for weather prediction, or for drug research, or for....who cares... Maybe its just a bunch of people doing something for fun, like racing in a fucking circle, jumping horses over painted wood, jumping around in tights to music of varying sorts, or staring at a screen.... doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me. What it does do however, is allow for a change in banking, companies that still hold trillions of fake money, loaned and re-loaned out on interest and then they hold tens of thousands of dollars of money each day in hopes of NOT having to borrow from the financial reserve so they don't have to pay anymore interest and can make more money and blame it on batch processing and other BS as no one has been incentivized to change the fundamentals of current banking.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 7, 2017)

Steevo said:


> I fundamentally disagree with your stance on crypto currency, but respect your right to have that opinion.



He has no right to his opinion this is an international forum whose owner isn't from America. If he wants he can ban anyone who speaks against anything he bloody wants. Welcome to private enterprise.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 7, 2017)

cdawall said:


> He has no right to his opinion this is an international forum whose owner isn't from America. If he wants he can ban anyone who speaks against anything he bloody wants. Welcome to private enterprise.


 Damn tyrants  i haven't seen Wizard so much as argue with anyone never mind ban someone.
And crypto mining Is just that for many, a private enterprise, I folded for about seven years, will do again once im done mining a bit but i do both inline with one core reason .

Messing with tech on my own small scale is what i Enjoy doing ,this is in part an extension of my hobby ,and that which makes me smile.
I likely wouldn't be on here if i loved football as much now, or knitting.

I do also like debating tech so im in for the argument.

Like many i would have been a millionaire had i mined instead of folded and i don't feel like missing out this time.

Call me what you want i earn my money the 9-5 way and i don't see any issues with trying to earn more legally after hours and to call others for doing so is very short sighted imho i could use more resources for my hobby for eg ,ive not been on a plane in 7years ,i could have done a fair few trips but i was Ocin something instead.


----------



## SPLWF (Jun 7, 2017)

Good for AMD, bad for us.  Those Markups and inflation is not cool.  It's no wonder why the 4 microcenters in my area are all sold out of anything good from AMD (Fury, RX).  This reminds me of the days of bitcoin and the R9 280/290(x).  I need a AMD GPU and effing Vega is taking too long, which I won't buy because I hate Ref Cards.


----------



## Captain_Tom (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Crypto currencies should be banned by law. This crap is the most useless thing humanity has done right after the fidget spinners. Computing some useless numbers, wasting gigawats of power on it for what exactly? Go and do compute on cancer and HIV research, but crypto currency? WHY!? No to mention it fucks up the graphics market yet again.



LOL another ignorant fool who thinks he's smart for _not_ understanding an emerging technology.


Cryptocurrencies are the future, and seeing people like you become forced to use them in 10 years will be very satisfying.



SPLWF said:


> Good for AMD, bad for us.  Those Markups and inflation is not cool.  It's no wonder why the 4 microcenters in my area are all sold out of anything good from AMD (Fury, RX).  This reminds me of the days of bitcoin and the R9 280/290(x).  I need a AMD GPU and effing Vega is taking too long, which I won't buy because I hate Ref Cards.



The 290X was used to mine Litecoin and Darkcoin.

7950's were for Bitcoin, and just barely.  Bitcoin became unprofitable to mine in 2012.


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## Steevo (Jun 7, 2017)

cdawall said:


> He has no right to his opinion this is an international forum whose owner isn't from America. If he wants he can ban anyone who speaks against anything he bloody wants. Welcome to private enterprise.



His ability to post it here has no bearing or effect on his opinion. Thus, it is his right to have. 

We could have a philosophical discussion about the natural order and how laws, rules, and regulations are restrictions on natural freedoms, but I think we all understand the fundamentals of what we mean.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 7, 2017)

Captain_Tom said:


> The 290X was used to mine Litecoin and Darkcoin.
> 
> 7950's were for Bitcoin, and just barely.  Bitcoin became unprofitable to mine in 2012.



Those cards are still profitable to mine with they can still pull off $3 a day under Ethereum 



Steevo said:


> His ability to post it here has no bearing or effect on his opinion. Thus, it is his right to have.
> 
> We could have a philosophical discussion about the natural order and how laws, rules, and regulations are restrictions on natural freedoms, but I think we all understand the fundamentals of what we mean.



We could have many discussions. One of them being the will of the human. To be fair if I wanted to I could quite literally shit on his desk. My human will gives me the freedom to do so regardless of lawlessness etc.


----------



## Steevo (Jun 7, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Those cards are still profitable to mine with they can still pull off $3 a day under Ethereum
> 
> 
> 
> We could have many discussions. One of them being the will of the human. To be fair if I wanted to I could quite literally shit on his desk. My human will gives me the freedom to do so regardless of lawlessness etc.




Like a boss.




Captain_Tom said:


> LOL another ignorant fool who thinks he's smart for _not_ understanding an emerging technology.
> 
> 
> Cryptocurrencies are the future, and seeing people like you become forced to use them in 10 years will be very satisfying.



Don't mistake action, for production. I doubt crypto currency will gain mainstream traction within 10 years, instead some hybrid of crypto-pay with Samsung or Apple or some other company will probably emerge, and the issue will be the fees levied against these crypto-currencies, the government will want a money trail just like with other income for taxation purposes and the amount of tracking that would have to be implemented for everyday latte purchases would or could be overwhelming, and then we end up with a...... federal crypto reserve that checks all the transactions...

reminds me of some Whitest Kids You Know.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 7, 2017)

They can try and startup a fedcoin whenever they like ,id imagine it seeing limited use though , ecoins were invented to confuse the money trail and does so quite well i cant see a fedcoin being anonymous and hence i don't think it would takeoff with those that use ecoins.


----------



## SPLWF (Jun 7, 2017)

Captain_Tom said:


> The 290X was used to mine Litecoin and Darkcoin.
> 
> 7950's were for Bitcoin, and just barely.  Bitcoin became unprofitable to mine in 2012.



I understand different type of coin separates generations and such but Coin is Coin, you know what I mean.


----------



## Steevo (Jun 7, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> They can try and startup a fedcoin whenever they like ,id imagine it seeing limited use though , ecoins were invented to confuse the money trail and does so quite well i cant see a fedcoin being anonymous and hence i don't think it would takeoff with those that use ecoins.


If for a second you or anyone else thinks the NSA can't, won't, or hasn't already tracked money in for purchasing, or selling back for hard currency.....


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## Captain_Tom (Jun 7, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Those cards are still profitable to mine with they can still pull off $3 a day under Ethereum
> 
> 
> 
> We could have many discussions. One of them being the will of the human. To be fair if I wanted to I could quite literally shit on his desk. My human will gives me the freedom to do so regardless of lawlessness etc.



I said *Bitcoin* is unprofitable to mine.


----------



## Captain_Tom (Jun 7, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> They can try and startup a fedcoin whenever they like ,id imagine it seeing limited use though , ecoins were invented to confuse the money trail and does so quite well i cant see a fedcoin being anonymous and hence i don't think it would takeoff with those that use ecoins.



Not really.  Bitcoin was invented so people could send money anywhere on Earth instantly with zero fees.  It's also hard to track, but nowhere near impossible - and in some ways easier than normal money.  The FBI has already caught several people through following Bitcoin addresses.  


Now things like DASH do indeed make it effectively impossible to track transactions.


----------



## ZoneDymo (Jun 7, 2017)

cdawall said:


> He has no right to his opinion this is an international forum whose owner isn't from America. If he wants he can ban anyone who speaks against anything he bloody wants. Welcome to private enterprise.



ermmm just like any forum anywhere owned by anyone....I dont think you know what the right to free speech actually grants you...


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jun 7, 2017)

Captain_Tom said:


> Not really.  Bitcoin was invented so people could send money anywhere on Earth instantly with zero fees.  It's also hard to track, but nowhere near impossible - and in some ways easier than normal money.  The FBI has already caught several people through following Bitcoin addresses.
> 
> 
> Now things like DASH do indeed make it effectively impossible to track transactions.


You getting a bit carried away. ,, Dp.

I passed an opinion , i didn't quote as fact and despite you starting out dissagreeing your final words align with what i said , customer goes elsewhere.
@ stevo read my post , i question the viability of fedcoin , certainly not it or any other coins traceability ,but they are used as i said by the hopefully anonymous.


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## Captain_Tom (Jun 7, 2017)

Steevo said:


> Don't mistake action, for production. I doubt crypto currency will gain mainstream traction within 10 years, instead some hybrid of crypto-pay with Samsung or Apple or some other company will probably emerge, and the issue will be the fees levied against these crypto-currencies, the government will want a money trail just like with other income for taxation purposes and the amount of tracking that would have to be implemented for everyday latte purchases would or could be overwhelming, and then we end up with a...... federal crypto reserve that checks all the transactions...




I just don't think you get it lol.   Bitcoin/DASH/Ethereum don't have to become the standard for them to be mainstream, and in fact I would argue they are already almost mainstream.   There are Bitcoin ATM's in every major city in the US and much of the West, you can buy things on Newegg directly and pretty much any website through conversion apps, and China is allowing more use of crypto.   There are entire countries now where Bitcoin is the defacto standard too.

Bitcoin isn't going anywhere, and altcoins continue to become more effective and easy to use.   People want to use them, and so they are used (Even in non-free countries like Russia).



And by the way, it doesn't matter if governments _want_ people to use them lol.  It isn't up to them, and they have nearly no means of stopping their use.   Even in a country like Russia or Iran where they can clamp down on the internet and communication like it's the book 1984, there are blackmarket interwebs free from constant Surveillance.  In fact several cryptocurrencies such as DASH, Stratus, and MadesafeCoin are working to build entirely a new Internet!


Post your silly Anarchy videos and backhanded comments all you want because I will again say *you are just proving you don't know what you are talking about.*  People who support crypto aren't anarchists, they just want to be able to *send any money they have;    anywhere they want;    for free;    instantly;    and without some third party getting in the way.*  Common sense buddy


----------



## Steevo (Jun 7, 2017)

Captain_Tom said:


> I just don't think you get it lol.   Bitcoin/DASH/Ethereum don't have to become the standard for them to be mainstream, and in fact I would argue they are already almost mainstream.   There are Bitcoin ATM's in every major city in the US and much of the West, you can buy things on Newegg directly and pretty much any website through conversion apps, and China is allowing more use of crypto.   There are entire countries now where Bitcoin is the defacto standard too.
> 
> Bitcoin isn't going anywhere, and altcoins continue to become more effective and easy to use.   People want to use them, and so they are used (Even in non-free countries like Russia).
> 
> ...




So when Newegg sells me a 580 card for the equivalency of $400 USD, how do they report that on taxes to show their purchase of a 580 from AMD for $300 USD, and the sale to me?

I have done financials for companies and for myself, taxes in the US and understand that sure, in other countries they might not be able to track it, but here in the US if I pull $20 out of a bitcoin ATM the company running that ATM has a checks and balance system in effect for X user withdrew $20 from account 00000000001 at XX:XX time, and they reconcile that against their cash purchases from Guarda, Loomis, or whatever bank they are using for funding. My GF works for Wells Fargo and we have these types of discussions with her friends from work as well. The only thing not tracked is coinage. You are absurdly nieve to think that Bitcoin and other crypto currency isn't tracked to at least some degree. But thanks for the bold https://www.forbes.com/sites/andygr...rugs-on-silk-roads-black-market/#52ca9843adf7 but useless info. 


I have worked in IT for a long time, and anything done, can be undone especially when it comes to security as it all requires some log of actions, like the blockchain itself.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 7, 2017)

ZoneDymo said:


> ermmm just like any forum anywhere owned by anyone....I dont think you know what the right to free speech actually grants you...



Absolutely nothing in a foreign country.


----------



## siluro818 (Jun 7, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> So, having an opinion over certain thing being retarded is not allowed anymore. Wiu wiu wiu wiu thought police incoming!


Anytime you express your opinion your put it forward for the consideration of others.
If you end up widely branded as naive/uninformed/stupid/etc. you should at least entertain the possibility that well - your opinion might be the retarded one instead of the thing you have low opinion of 
This is not though policing - it is the reality of social interaction lol


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## ZoneDymo (Jun 7, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Absolutely nothing in a foreign country.



a foreign country...yeah ok so you dont know.
Ill explain this to you, freedom of speech only means the government wont prosecute you, it says nothing about privately owned websites.
So yeah, the owner of any website can ban you and delete your comments as much as they want


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## cdawall (Jun 7, 2017)

ZoneDymo said:


> a foreign country...yeah ok so you dont know.
> Ill explain this to you, freedom of speech only means the government wont prosecute you, it says nothing about privately owned websites.
> So yeah, the owner of any website can ban you and delete your comments as much as they want



Hi pete, my name is repeat. I thank you for posting exactly what I said earlier in different words as if I didn't know what they meant.


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## Captain_Tom (Jun 7, 2017)

Steevo said:


> So when Newegg sells me a 580 card for the equivalency of $400 USD, how do they report that on taxes to show their purchase of a 580 from AMD for $300 USD, and the sale to me?
> 
> I have done financials for companies and for myself, taxes in the US and understand that sure, in other countries they might not be able to track it, but here in the US if I pull $20 out of a bitcoin ATM the company running that ATM has a checks and balance system in effect for X user withdrew $20 from account 00000000001 at XX:XX time, and they reconcile that against their cash purchases from Guarda, Loomis, or whatever bank they are using for funding. My GF works for Wells Fargo and we have these types of discussions with her friends from work as well. The only thing not tracked is coinage. You are absurdly nieve to think that Bitcoin and other crypto currency isn't tracked to at least some degree. But thanks for the bold https://www.forbes.com/sites/andygr...rugs-on-silk-roads-black-market/#52ca9843adf7 but useless info.
> 
> ...




*Again you demonstrate you are completely missing the point.*  It's not about taxes genius, its about how much cheaper it is to run the transaction network.

No 2% credit card fee for the seller, and no servers need to be hosted by credit card companies.  This is a completely decentralized computational network that can do so many things _besides_ simple transactions.  Many companies are looking into utilizing blockchain to remove the need for server farms.   It is complete democratization of computing.   The icing on the cake is that there also are no currency exchange fees.


Then you go on talking about "getting tracked".  I never claimed you _couldn't _be tracked using Bitcoin - in fact it's easier to track people than cash!   But if you use an obfuscation wallet it is incredibly hard to follow, and alternatives like DASH do in fact make it nearly impossible to be tracked.


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## R-T-B (Jun 7, 2017)

*pokes head in*

*walks away sad*


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## Steevo (Jun 7, 2017)

Captain_Tom said:


> *Again you demonstrate you are completely missing the point.*  It's not about taxes genius, its about how much cheaper it is to run the transaction network.
> 
> No 2% credit card fee for the seller, and no servers need to be hosted by credit card companies.  This is a completely decentralized computational network that can do so many things _besides_ simple transactions.  Many companies are looking into utilizing blockchain to remove the need for server farms.   It is complete democratization of computing.   The icing on the cake is that there also are no currency exchange fees.
> 
> ...




I agree if you purposefully use obfuscation methods, it will be harder, if not almost impossible, only if another country hosting the wallet or laundering software isn't OK handing over information under subpoena or impenetrable to hacking....

The transaction fee is paid for in and by the inflation from handing out money for processing, and the only real value created by it is from people who need or want to use it. All money systems work the same, and there is no free lunches.


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## HOkay (Jun 7, 2017)

I generally read Techpowerup through the app which means I don't join in on discussions, however as a cryptocurrency expert I felt I really had to join in on this one. Not sure where to start so I'll just throw in some hopefully enlightening points.

First up, a quickie, all cryptocurrencies DO generally have a cost to send a transaction - at least if you ever want that transaction to complete in a reasonable time frame. Taking Bitcoin as an example, when you send a transaction to the network you choose a fee to pay to the miners. The higher the fee you give, the higher priority miners will give your transaction. Blocks are created every 10mins (on average) and can only contain 1MB of data, so can only accommodate a fixed number of transactions. If there's too many transactions to fit, miners will pick the ones with the highest fees first, and hold the remaining lower fee transactions for the next block. However, there is a mechanism whereby miners are supposed to include a few "oldest first" transactions in their blocks, this is designed to ensure that all transactions eventually do get processed. This is up to miners though, no one can force them to actually do this, it's just the default in the Core software.
So yes, whilst you can send Bitcoin to anyone in the world for free, realistically you will pay a small fee each time, though this will be MUCH smaller than standard international transfers. As the network gets more congested with more transactions however, these fees will rise. Simple supply and demand. This is the whole reason for the Bitcoin scaling debate which has been ongoing for a good while now.

Next, Ethereum! Ethereum is not a decentralised supercomputer as you might initial expect. For the execution of smart contract code on the Ethereum network, every single node runs the exact same code so it's a giant duplication of effort rather than a collaborative supercomputer one. It should be noted that the smart contract code is extremely simple code and not complex computing by any means. It's generally along the lines of "if this then do that" because the higher the complexity of the code, the more it costs the person uploading it to have it accepted by the network. For example, every new variable costs more ETH for the uploader, as does every "if" or "for loop". If you fancy a look at an example you can play around with some Solidity code online here: https://ethereum.github.io/browser-solidity/. A good tutorial can be found here: http://solidity.readthedocs.io/en/latest/introduction-to-smart-contracts.html
The purpose of the Ethereum network all duplicating effort is so that everyone can then compare the results to check for consistency in the calculations, much like everyone in the Bitcoin network verifying all the transactions for themselves.

Now the Ethereum mining process is separate from the smart contract functionality, and is the subject of this article and likely what most people are thinking about when they hear about "these wasteful cryptocurrencies". Mining is the process of generating new blocks to add to the blockchain, and in Ethereum this is currently done via a Proof-of-Work mechanism which does indeed consume a hell of a lot of electricity! It also provides absolutely no benefit to anyone outside of the Ethereum ecosystem, no arguments from me there. In that sense, the calculations are indeed a giant waste of resources to an outside observer, however, as pointed out by some here already, that energy goes to securing the transactions on the network and that in itself is arguably extremely useful as it vastly reduces the human interaction required to keep things synchronised and to prevent fraud/double-spending etc. You could argue this means people can get indeed get jobs in other areas of life and that could arguably be more productive for the world in general than having loads of people spending their time and effort on carrying out and checking financial transactions.

GPU Mining at home - there's a number of reasons why people might mine, the obvious one being for financial gain. Reasons might include spinning up a mining business for financial profit, or it might be an average home user who fancies earning a few $. Other motivations might be to promote the ideological use of cryptocurrencies as a way to pull currency control away from governments, or it might simply be as one person said, because it's a fun hobby for some! Personally, I'm a home user who has a single GPU mining away 24/7 primarily because I happen to find it really interesting. It doesn't hurt that it also makes a small amount of money in the meantime. I ease my concerns about wasting power and the rising power bill by reminding myself it actually helps heat my house which is a productive use of all that waste heat  .
All that said, I have mined BTC, DOGE, ETH and a couple of others, and I have invested money simply buying BTC and ETH. I have made WAY more money investing and doing some light trading (primarily for entertainment) compared to mining. If you're thinking about buying a GPU to mine with purely for financial gain, I would highly recommend just buying some cryptos and hanging onto them instead.
Finally on mining, Ethereum will soon (possibly this year, probably later as it keeps getting delayed) switch to Proof-of-Stake mining. This will prevent just anyone from joining in with mining and making money form it. the PoS mechanism will eventually require that you have to own a bunch of Ethereum in order to contribute to the mining process (without some you'll just be ignored by the rest of the network if you try). The details aren't yet concrete, they're still testing and working on what they want for the final version, but anyone anywhere being able to contribute to securing the Ethereum network and/or mining for profit will eventually come to an end. This is probably a good thing in my opinion, by that point enough people should be invested in the network that PoS can safely replace PoW and we can save a whole lot of electricity in the long run!

So from that enormous rant, you can probably guess my opinion is that cryptocurrencies are not a waste of time and effort. I honestly see a cashless future, though this will probably not be in my lifetime. Understanding the potential of cryptocurrencies requires an awful lot of economic thought which I honestly can't get my head round entirely. A form of currency with a fixed supply that absolutely cannot have its number of units increased or decreased (unless agreed by majority consensus of the miners) is not something we've ever had on a global scale before. Can economies function properly long-term like this? Many people much better versed in economic theory will be thinking about this and we'll just have to wait and see.

Well this was ridiculously over the top for a forum thread....

Edit: Forgot to talk about anonymity in blockchains. Really quickly though, everything is recorded so every transaction will always be traceable. However, who submits a transaction is extremely hard to trace, you need to see them send it because once it's propagating around the network the source cannot be determined. It's also important to remember that in the blockchain world, anyone can create a new address at any time for essentially no cost. So I can create myself 10,000 addresses and ping Bitcoin around those addresses like crazy making it much harder to track. The counter to that is that each transaction will cost me a little Bitcoin to perform. However, there are mixing (also known as tumbling) services which are effectively giant money cleaning services - not necessarily for illegal purposes (although clearly good for that). If enough people use a mixing or tumbling service, and that service doesn't keep records (a very key point) then you can have near-perfect anonymity. Other cryptocurrencies attempt a similar thing built into the way they work - Zcash and Monero being two examples.
So anyone claiming that the NSA is tracking everyone using Bitcoin should know that it is actually possible to use cryptocurrencies without being traced. The NSA can watch people who don't put much effort into being anonymous, but if you truly want to hide then it's definitely possible. Where you can catch bad people doing this is on the standard currency side of things, i.e. when someone is suddenly living above the means they can afford according to their tax returns, or has giant lump sums of money appearing in their accounts from currency exchanges etc.


----------



## DRDNA (Jun 8, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Crypto currencies should be banned by law. This crap is the most useless thing humanity has done right after the fidget spinners. Computing some useless numbers, wasting gigawats of power on it for what exactly? Go and do compute on cancer and HIV research, but crypto currency? WHY!? No to mention it fucks up the graphics market yet again.


At least it is not Fiat money!!! But I hope AMD steps up their game to meet demand!


----------



## remixedcat (Jun 8, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Crypto currencies should be banned by law. This crap is the most useless thing humanity has done right after the fidget spinners. Computing some useless numbers, wasting gigawats of power on it for what exactly? Go and do compute on cancer and HIV research, but crypto currency? WHY!? No to mention it fucks up the graphics market yet again.


No it's not bad at all it's quite opposite because it puts the currency in the hands of the people and not the corrupt federal reserve and bankers!


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## notb (Jun 8, 2017)

remixedcat said:


> No it's not bad at all it's quite opposite because it puts the currency in the hands of the people and not the corrupt federal reserve and bankers!


I really hope comments like that are meant to be jokes...


----------



## Countryside (Jun 8, 2017)

Tatty_One said:


> Well that's just the point, rarely are opinions based on fact, if they researched that may prevent them from having the opinion that they want, all too often people have opinions on something's that they have no experience of themselves but they have the right to them nevertheless.  Not sure what all this "Freedom of Speech" stuff is, it does not exist on the internet and I don't exercise it here unless it can be done in a mature manner, freedom is earnt and unless it is legislative it remains discretionary


Thank you @Tatty_One  I do love some intelligence 

People have forgotten how to say "i don't know"  for example Lets say i ask a person "You think we'll ever get to Mars"  he will reply "not in a thousand years" then i will ask what do you base you answer on do you have knowledge on aerospace engineering , space flight he say no well but I have a right do my opinion. Better be honest and say I don't know.


Most of us live in a free country and yes you should have the right do your opinion you can think the craziest thoughts you want, You should just never be responsible for creating legislation.
Legislation should be based on objective truths not in some belief system.


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## remixedcat (Jun 8, 2017)

notb said:


> I really hope comments like that are meant to be jokes...


So you'd rather currency be controlled by corrupt banks and the fed reserve?


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## DRDNA (Jun 8, 2017)

notb said:


> I really hope comments like that are meant to be jokes...


The real joke is the lack of understanding when it comes to Fiat monies! Fiat monies is designed to fail for the population but not for the 1% elite. Wow the lack of understanding of the current state of affairs and all that entails. It would be helpful if maybe you watched a documentary on it or read one. Good luck with your love of Fiat money.


----------



## Countryside (Jun 8, 2017)

DRDNA said:


> The real joke is the lack of understanding when it comes to Fiat monies! Fiat monies is designed to fail for the population but not for the 1% elite. Wow the lack of understanding of the current state of affairs and all that entails. It would be helpful if maybe you watched a documentary on it or read one. Good luck with your love of Fiat money.



"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning"


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## DRDNA (Jun 8, 2017)

Countryside said:


> "It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning"


Henry Ford imparting knowledge with in the minds that crave Truth. I pray for infection.....


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## notb (Jun 8, 2017)

remixedcat said:


> So you'd rather currency be controlled by corrupt banks and the fed reserve?


Banks don't have any control over money that other private entities don't have. They simply have enough capital to have an impact.

(I'm trying not to react to texts about "corrupt banks" etc. You can call me old or something.)



DRDNA said:


> The real joke is the lack of understanding when it comes to Fiat monies! It would be helpful if maybe you watched a documentary on it or read one.



Behind a fiat money you have a state. The fundament for stability of currency is the constant amount of it. When a state decides to change the amount of money, it always has a great impact on its value. But it's still way more stable than cryptocurrencies.
Also banks mentioned by @remixedcat have nothing to do with stability of a currency in long term. They trade it, which can lead to temporary changes in quote - true. But now they can also trade cryptocurrencies (and they do), so there is no difference in this aspect.

From a financial point of view, the main issue with cryptocurrencies is that there is no control over the amount. Yes, a single currency is limited by the algorithm, but you can create many of them. As long as they hook up miners, they quickly become mainstream.
Some say the total amount of cryptocurrencies is limited by the mining potential and it is more or less true. But estimates are all based on assumptions about the total hashing power in the system. Will these assumptions hold when everyone starts to mine at home? When companies start to make GPUs purely for mining? When people no longer buy a single GPU for gaming, but 4-5? 

But you can suggest a documentary if you wish. If it's not an obvious conspiracy theory movie, I might as well give it a go. :-D

But putting financial aspect aside (I assume this is not a topic many here will agree with me), I still find the anonymity to be an issue.
And of course I'm not a huge fan of pointless electricity wasting, but - to be honest - I'm not a huge fan of gaming PCs that use 1000W as well. I mean: 15 years ago a PC drawing 100W was fine for gaming at a standard resolution of the period (e.g. 1024 x 768).
And not surprisingly: today you can easily build a PC for 1080p gaming that'll draw 100-150W. You think banks manipulate people? Look how computer stuff manufacturers convince gamers that they need 600W monsters. :-D


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## cyneater (Jun 9, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Crypto currencies should be banned by law. This crap is the most useless thing humanity has done right after the fidget spinners. Computing some useless numbers, wasting gigawats of power on it for what exactly? Go and do compute on cancer and HIV research, but crypto currency? WHY!? No to mention it fucks up the graphics market yet again.



You do realize real money is the same. 

Its not "real" just created by the bankers.


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## EarthDog (Jun 9, 2017)

No, he doesn't... but I also believe he has been banned from the thread a couple days ago.


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## notb (Jun 9, 2017)

cyneater said:


> Its not "real" just created by the bankers.



By governments, not bankers.


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## trog100 (Jun 9, 2017)

it has been said that if government can print their way out of trouble they will do.. in the end "people" lose faith in the government "money" which to be honest is the only logical reason for the crypto currency craze.. the worlds financial system is basically one huge fraud underpinned by massive debt.. the debt as everybody knows will never be paid back and it keeps increasing.. in truth it is a faith based system and its teetering on the edge of collapse..

everyone owes everyone.. a huge merry go round of debt repayments.. all it takes to go pop is one large default which could be a bank or a government and the chain is broken.. apart from showing a lack of faith in government money i aint entirely sure how crypto currency fits in with the overall financial scheme of things but i find its rapidly increase in value a bit scary.. he he

trog


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## Lionheart (Jun 10, 2017)

cdawall said:


> Well this thread is a shit show.



Thanks to RejZoR the closed minded moron.


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## EarthDog (Jun 10, 2017)

Pretty sure hes been banned from the thread...

...probably shouldnt insult the guy anyway.


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## notb (Jun 10, 2017)

trog100 said:


> the debt as everybody knows will never be paid back and it keeps increasing.. in truth it is a faith based system and its teetering on the edge of collapse..


Don't worry about the collapse. It won't happen. 
Yes, everyone borrow from everyone. And it's also true that they might never pay back.
But they pay the interest and this results in a cashflow between countries and institutions. This actually makes the financial system... a system - rather than a group of highly separated entities - which bring stability to the financial world (to go in part with trade- also greatly globalized since we dumped representation money).

Also, while I can agree that financial system is not perfect, aren't we actually comparing state currencies to virtual ones? so do you think the surge of BTC this year is OK? Or what happened to VTC yesterday (+50%)?


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## trog100 (Jun 10, 2017)

i happen to think the collapse will happen i am also surprised the system has held up this long but arguing against any faith based system is fruitless.. to those who have it.. faith is all powerful.. he he..

so far its all held together by artificially low interest rates which initially were supposed to be a short term measure but cant be "normalized" because any increase in interest rates would make the debt repayments impossible..

i think the rise in crypto currencies is  just part of the coming financial collapse.. or a sign of it.. i was looking at a short interview with jim rogers last night.. when ask when the collapse was coming he simply said later this year or next year.. these guys dont like being firm on the "when" but he was about as firm as he could be..

the stock market is massively over valued.. in a bubble so to speak.. money is borrowed for next to nothing and its all pumped into the stock market.. the market keeps going up come what may.. governments print money to buy back their own debt and keep their bond prices up and companies borrow easy money to buy back their own shares and keep the share prices up.. none of its real any more.. 

trog


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## Divide Overflow (Jun 11, 2017)

I'm seeing _*new *_RX 580 cards listed for over $800, more than the list price for 1080Ti cards.


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## Fluffmeister (Jun 11, 2017)

Divide Overflow said:


> I'm seeing _*new *_RX 580 cards listed for over $800, more than the list price for 1080Ti cards.



If Vega is a mining monster, gamers have no chance of buying one... but hey what is new


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## jaggerwild (Jun 12, 2017)

They make people pay to cash in these coins after they mine them or they pay to join a site? Amazing how AMD cards have shoot up!


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Jun 12, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> So, you had a very bad experience, but you still feel the need to defend it. Totally not like a cult, right? Think whatever you want, I don't care. It's stupid.


Im sure he secretly feels the same way about your opinion.


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## deemon (Jun 14, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Crypto currencies should be banned by law. This crap is the most useless thing humanity has done right after the fidget spinners. Computing some useless numbers, wasting gigawats of power on it for what exactly? Go and do compute on cancer and HIV research, but crypto currency? WHY!? No to mention it fucks up the graphics market yet again.



Tell that to gold and diamond miners. Wasting tons of gigawatts of power, manhours and equipment to dig the ground up... for what? To make some bling for rich people?

Also it's not exactly "fucking up the graphics market" but providing AMD with much needed money boost for any future R&D.


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## RejZoR (Jun 14, 2017)

You do know that gold and diamonds aren't just for jewelry, but it's also used for things like CPU powering your PC? And other industrial applications?


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## R0H1T (Jun 14, 2017)

deemon said:


> Tell that to gold and diamond miners. Wasting tons of gigawatts of power, manhours and equipment to dig the ground up... for what? To make some bling for rich people?
> 
> Also it's not exactly "fucking up the graphics market" but providing AMD with much needed money boost for any future R&D.


Tell that to the people using diamond tips for cutting metals, rocks or any number of high precision industries. There's gold inside your computer, who'd have thunk it, pretty sure you didn't! The diamond is also used in labs, a diamond can handle more pressure than any other natural substance, did you know that? Gold, any number of things that require a substance which doesn't oxidize rapidly including the likes of aerospace, medicine et al.

Tell me what your crypto currency can do today, instead of just fueling speculation & GPU mining? The (large) number of people justifying this craze is hilarious & then they call bankers different names, oh the irony!


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## deemon (Jun 16, 2017)

R0H1T said:


> Tell that to the people using diamond tips for cutting metals, rocks or any number of high precision industries. There's gold inside your computer, who'd have thunk it, pretty sure you didn't! The diamond is also used in labs, a diamond can handle more pressure than any other natural substance, did you know that? Gold, any number of things that require a substance which doesn't oxidize rapidly including the likes of aerospace, medicine et al.



Gold. A tiny fraction, yes. More than 3/4 is used in pointless jewelry. The next big part just sits in the vaults in form of bars... just to store value or whatever... really pointless also. Or I would rather call is as useful as cryptocurrency. THEN and only then comes electronics. Then a little bit medicine and aerospace.
About 1/3 of diamonds are used for pointless jewelry.



R0H1T said:


> Tell me what your crypto currency can do today, instead of just fueling speculation & GPU mining? The (large) number of people justifying this craze is hilarious & then they call bankers different names, oh the irony!



Banksters are to blame for every financial bubble and their bursting. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them! So yeah.


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## notb (Jun 16, 2017)

deemon said:


> Gold. A tiny fraction, yes. More than 3/4 is used in pointless jewelry. The next big part just sits in the vaults in form of bars... just to store value or whatever... really pointless also. Or I would rather call is as useful as cryptocurrency. THEN and only then comes electronics. Then a little bit medicine and aerospace.
> About 1/3 of diamonds are used for pointless jewelry.


Just when did jewelry become pointless? 


deemon said:


> Banksters are to blame for every financial bubble and their bursting. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them! So yeah.


That's like saying that weapon manufacturers are responsible for every murder when a gun was used. Oh come on.


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