# Processor choice for well equipped quad channel memory system... generational improvements worth it?



## storm-chaser (Mar 4, 2020)

*First of all the build is just for fun* I will likely sell later, but I want to build out a specific workhorse for video rendering and advanced work loads. I'm curious to what you guy's think of my potential CPU choices - because that will obviously determine the trajectory of the build. I was thinking a DDR4 platform, newer, faster, but also more expensive. However, some of the older hardware appears to be desirable as well. My only pre-requisite is NOT mainstream sockets AND quad channel memory. I need all the bandwidth I can get out of all four channels. I will go DDR3 if the better CPU choice dictates that. I have not made my mind up yet, so let me know what y'all think. I plan on a liquid cooling solution and moderate overclocking so the CPU MUST have an unlocked mutli.

*INTEL ONLY.*

Intel BX80633I74930K Core i7-4930K Hexa-Core Processor: $250.00 (QUAD channel, DDR3) LGA 2011

Intel BX80648I75930K Core i7-5930K 3.5GHz 15MB Cache Hexa-Core Processor $210 (QUAD channel, DDR4) LGA 2011

Intel BX80673I77800X Core i7-7800X 3.5 GHz Hexa-Core  Processor $350 (QUAD channel DDR4) LGA 2066

Intel BX80671I76850K Core i7 6850K Hexa-Core 3.6GHz $240 (QUAD Channel DDR4) LGA 2066

Intel BX80613I7990X Core i7-990X $140 (Triple Channel DDR3) LGA 1366

EDIT: My target is six cores or up.


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## Hyderz (Mar 4, 2020)

+1 on the 6850k


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 4, 2020)

6850K out of those choices I believe it has better memory support than Haswell E so that would be my pick..... I would look for an 8 core variant though unless you want to wait ages for anything to actually render

The 5820k is uber slow by today standards it gets obliterated by even a 1700... if you can find a sample that will do around 4.6ghz it will match a stock 3.2ghz 1700 in rendering but consume over 200w doing it so get some really good cooling. Avx is almost a no go from what I can remember due to heat getting out of control. Maybe a delided 6850k would fare better idk. 

I had a pretty decent one that I gave away  in 2018.








						I scored 27 627 in Fire Strike
					

Intel Core i7-5820K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 x 2, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




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## basco (Mar 4, 2020)

am i wrong isn't the 6850k socket 2011_3  ??


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## steen (Mar 4, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> The 5820k is uber slow by today standards it gets obliterated by even a 1700... if you can find a sample that will do around 4.6ghz it will match a stock 3.2ghz 1700 in rendering but consume over 200w doing it



That's the problem with all the cheap Xeon upgrades for X58/X79/X99. 6-8 core Ryzen kills them as a value/perf/power proposition. Unless you basically get old parts for nix, Ryzen combo deals can be had cheap.



basco said:


> am i wrong isn't the 6850k socket 2011_3  ??


Correct. LGA2011-3.


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## phanbuey (Mar 4, 2020)

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Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Intel Xeon E5-1650 V2 3.5GHz (SR1AQ) Processor at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## bobbybluz (Mar 4, 2020)

You can get an unlocked Xeon 1680 V2 for less than $200 now (saw one on Ebay yesterday for $175). 8 cores of premium silicon for the X79 platform that are close in performance to a 5960X (I own both so this is based on personal experience). The 1650 V2 and 1660 V2 are also decent but not 8 cores though around half the price. Xeons are the smart way to go at the moment.


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## thesmokingman (Mar 4, 2020)

I had a 7820x and my 3900x just flat out stomped all over it. You wrote Intel only but given your supposed workload, that's counter productive.


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## kapone32 (Mar 4, 2020)

The X399 platform is uber affordable now and would give you a better overall experience due to more PCIe_ lanes and more cores. The 1920X is $350 Canadian on Amazon and the As Rock X399 Phantom Gaming 6 is $339. That is a a ton of I/O potential for under $700. In terms of memory support you don't just get DDR4 but also ECC modules work fine with TR4.


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## storm-chaser (Mar 4, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> I had a 7820x and my 3900x just flat out stomped all over it. You wrote Intel only but given your supposed workload, that's counter productive.



I was on an Intel kick there... who knows, maybe I will go AMD at the end of the day.



kapone32 said:


> The X399 platform is uber affordable now and would give you a better overall experience due to more PCIe_ lanes and more cores. The 1920X is $350 Canadian on Amazon and the As Rock X399 Phantom Gaming 6 is $339. That is a a ton of I/O potential for under $700. In terms of memory support you don't just get DDR4 but also ECC modules work fine with TR4.



Thanks. I will look into this.


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## Fry178 (Mar 4, 2020)

not sure why you want to limit yourself to intel.
my 200$ R3600 runs ~50GB/s for ram with just dual channel..


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## thesmokingman (Mar 4, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> I was on an Intel kick there... who knows, maybe I will go AMD at the end of the day.



You listed the 7800x at $350... while the 3900x is either $420 online at the major retailers or $400 from microcenter. There is no way in hell I'd go Intel HEDT when the cost diff between your HEDT choice vs the 3900x is soo slim. On the other I wouldn't go x399 platform either.


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## kapone32 (Mar 4, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> You listed the 7800x at $350... while the 3900x is either $420 online at the major retailers or $400 from microcenter. There is no way in hell I'd go Intel HEDT when the cost diff between your HEDT choice vs the 3900x is soo slim. On the other I wouldn't go x399 platform either.



Yes but the 3900X does not support quad channel.


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## storm-chaser (Mar 4, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> You listed the 7800x at $350... while the 3900x is either $420 online at the major retailers or $400 from microcenter. There is no way in hell I'd go Intel HEDT when the cost diff between your HEDT choice vs the 3900x is soo slim. On the other I wouldn't go x399 platform either.


Okay... thanks.

What's your problem with x399?



Fry178 said:


> not sure why you want to limit yourself to intel.
> my 200$ R3600 runs ~50GB/s for ram with just dual channel..


Yes my $200 9600KF rig does about 50GB/s with about 40ns latency (dual channel)
I am interested in maximizing memory throughput with this new build, across all 4 channels. The RAM considerations will be just as important as the processor, to an extent.
Just something a little more high end to satisfy my hardware itch.


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## thesmokingman (Mar 4, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> Okay... thanks.
> 
> What's your problem with x399?
> 
> ...



x399 with TR1 was very finicky. TR2 is an improvement but it still it's a compromise in varied workloads. TR2 fills the gap between Ryzen and TR3, but really its for those who want pcie lanes and you have to deal with NUMA issues. Thus if I'm going threadripper, its TR3 or bust. I still remember going thru 4 x399 boards when it first came out due to a variety of issues. It left a bad taste... TRX40 on the other hand is rock solid, it just oozes stability.

Btw, you shouldn't limit yourself to only quad memory. Memory speed didn't mean jack to my 7820x when it got beat by a stock 3900x which is only dual channel. Even with the 7820x oc'd to 4.8 it was not even close in multi and the 3900x matched it in single. And we're not even talking about the ludicrous power consumption and stupid heat production by the 7820x! Btw I should add that my 7820x was delidded and it still was a huge pita to cool.






						Build: 3970x, dual 2080ti, 8TB m.2 RAID = Render Monster
					

I'm building a render machine for work on a variety of applications. It will be an investment in reducing completion times in rendering and content creation workloads. This is a build for an old college buddy who works in the industry. On to the component list. Also, going to start with two...




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## EarthDog (Mar 4, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> *First of all the build is just for fun* I will likely sell later, but I want to build out a specific workhorse for video rendering and advanced work loads. I'm curious to what you guy's think of my potential CPU choices - because that will obviously determine the trajectory of the build. I was thinking a DDR4 platform, newer, faster, but also more expensive. However, some of the older hardware appears to be desirable as well. My only pre-requisite is NOT mainstream sockets AND quad channel memory. I need all the bandwidth I can get out of all four channels. I will go DDR3 if the better CPU choice dictates that. I have not made my mind up yet, so let me know what y'all think. I plan on a liquid cooling solution and moderate overclocking so the CPU MUST have an unlocked mutli.
> 
> *INTEL ONLY.*
> 
> ...


Funny...these are barely faster than your current CPU especially the 4930K and 5930K. The 990x is slower than your CPU because its so damn old/IPC is so much lower.

Is memory bandwidth really a consideration here that quad vs dual makes a difference? Last I recall (you would want to research this) memory bandwidth (dual versus quad) makes little difference in video rendering (Cinebench R20 for example). I don't know if that is The Gospel, but I'd certainly research it before you use it as a determining factor. I'd focus on more cores/threads than I would quad channel RAM...

Assuming dual vs quad means little in rendering, consider looking at mainstream AMD Ryzen platforms and their higher core count... For $350 you can get a beast of a CPU... additionally, an X470/X570 board and some dual channel RAM.

You're addicted to memory bandwidth and latency.............ironically(?) it really doesn't matter much for most performance metrics (some it can respond well).

EDIT: That said, I think the clear winner here is the 6850K. No point in the 7 series as IPC didn't change much, just clocks for $100 difference. The other three are simply too slow to be worth it........even for fun. I'd rather render on your 6c/6t or buy mainstream AMD than go out and buy a system under a false(?) pretense of quad channel memory making a difference.


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## Fry178 (Mar 4, 2020)

Especially once you are limited to the cpu for actual tasks.
who cares about a 6 lane hwy when there only 3 cars.


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## Zyll Goliat (Mar 4, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> *First of all the build is just for fun* I will likely sell later, but I want to build out a specific workhorse for video rendering and advanced work loads. I'm curious to what you guy's think of my potential CPU choices - because that will obviously determine the trajectory of the build. I was thinking a DDR4 platform, newer, faster, but also more expensive. However, some of the older hardware appears to be desirable as well. My only pre-requisite is NOT mainstream sockets AND quad channel memory. I need all the bandwidth I can get out of all four channels. I will go DDR3 if the better CPU choice dictates that. I have not made my mind up yet, so let me know what y'all think. I plan on a liquid cooling solution and moderate overclocking so the CPU MUST have an unlocked mutli.
> 
> *INTEL ONLY.*
> 
> ...


Well you can get much cheaper 6 core Xeons(20-50$) for X58 platform instead of paying 140$ for I7-990X and also it will OC easily IF you have decent mobo same things goes for X79 or even X99 platform but on this platforms you need to know difference between locked&unlocked Xeons and how can you OC locked Xeons via BCLK there are also some hacks on X99 platform that can force CPU to works on turbo speeds on ALL cores....


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## thesmokingman (Mar 4, 2020)

Zyll Goliath said:


> Well you can get much cheaper 6 core Xeons(20-50$) for X58 platform instead of paying 140$ for I7-990X and also it will OC easily IF you have decent mobo same things goes for X79 or even X99 platform but on this platforms you need to know difference between locked&unlocked Xeons and how can you OC locked Xeons via BCLK there are also some hacks on X99 platform that can force CPU to works on turbo speeds on ALL cores....



Those Xeons are ridiculously slow now. Hell an 85 buck Ryzen 1600AF is just as fast or faster.


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## Zyll Goliat (Mar 4, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> Those Xeons are ridiculously slow now. Hell an 85 buck Ryzen 1600AF is just as fast or faster.


Well OP was asking for this particular platforms and he never mention AM4&Ryzen.....also SOME of those Xeons are still very competitive today IF you know how to OC them properly and not paying a lot for them they could be still GREAT choice for some people.....


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## EarthDog (Mar 4, 2020)

Yeah, there are many faster options available for the money, but I think he just wants to ogle at quad channel RAM. I'm not sure if he cares about fastest for the money or just wants to play with more RAM channels. We can point him in the best direction if we learned that purpose. 



Zyll Goliath said:


> Well OP was asking for this particular platforms and he never mention AM4&Ryzen.....also SOME of those Xeons are still very competitive today IF you know how to OC them properly.....


True. But I'm not sure a 6c/12t X58 CPU even when overclocked to its limits is faster than that 6850K.. Take a quick look here: https://www.anandtech.com/show/7003/the-haswell-review-intel-core-i74770k-i54560k-tested/6

It can't keep up with 4c/8t CPUs...Imagine 50% more cores/threads...  

Really... this goes to what I said above. We don't know the OP's purpose. Myself and some others take it to get the fastest for the money (due to the quad channel request/verbiage), but he may not give a hoot, or may just want what he listed.....because storm-chaser reasons. Hopefully he clarifies and we can help out better.


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## storm-chaser (Mar 4, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> ual makes a difference? Last I recall (you would want to research this) memory bandwidth (dual versus quad) makes little difference in video rendering (Cinebench R20 for example). I don't know if that is The Gospel, but I'd certainly research it before you use it as a determining factor. I'd focus on more co





EarthDog said:


> Funny...these are barely faster than your current CPU especially the 4930K and 5930K. The 990x is slower than your CPU because its so damn old/IPC is so much lower.
> 
> Is memory bandwidth really a consideration here that quad vs dual makes a difference? Last I recall (you would want to research this) memory bandwidth (dual versus quad) makes little difference in video rendering (Cinebench R20 for example). I don't know if that is The Gospel, but I'd certainly research it before you use it as a determining factor. I'd focus on more cores/threads than I would quad channel RAM...
> 
> ...


Actually my focus can be on whatever part of the system I want it to be on. If I want to maximize system memory performance that is what *I AM GOING TO GEAR THE SYSTEM TOWARDS. AND THAT IS REALLY THE BOTTOM LINE. *

I'm just gauging interest in a new build... these are all considerations I am taking very seriously but I want to be clear: *this PC will in no way be the same animal* as my recently assembled 9600KF X6 5.0GHz rig. In terms of usage case, they are worlds apart. I will however, evaluate CPU performance with a number of popular benchmarking tests in an effort to gain some perspective on it's performance potential. Horses for courses... I also don't need the technology to be "cutting edge" but I do agree with you that the *6850K *is the clear winner from that pack. And just one tech tip - you just need to focus less on being judgmental (as usual) and more energized on the essence of exactly what I am trying to capture here. Horses for courses my friend, horses for courses.



Fry178 said:


> Especially once you are limited to the cpu for actual tasks.
> who cares about a 6 lane hwy when there only 3 cars.


Right, this build is all about maximizing memory throughput, so we will be addressing those "bottlenecks" that you speak of, to the best of our ability. Matter of fact, that's a crucial goal of the new build. *Unfettered performance, that's what were after!*

And I want to emphasis one more point. We are measuring system performance relative to it's CLASS, *and* *not necessarily to hold to the benchmark standard of the most recent tech.* So if we do go with a DDR3 kit and CPU, we will be evaluating the system based on how it performs relative to other tech from that time period.


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## EarthDog (Mar 4, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> you just need to focus less on being judgmental (as usual) and more energized on the essence of exactly what I am trying to capture here. Horses for courses my friend, horses for courses.


...and you should read my next/latest post before saying such things.. 

Your 'essence' is unclear here (to at least me - we see different answers and suggestions because we arent clear on the essence). You mention rendering and want quad channel out of the gate so we went core heavy and explained quad didnt matter much (in case you were not aware) and other options. 



storm-chaser said:


> Right, this build is all about maximizing memory throughput, so we will be addressing those "bottlenecks" that you speak of, to the best of our ability. Matter of fact, that's a crucial goal of the new build. *Unfettered performance, that's what were after!*
> 
> And I want to emphasis one more point. We are measuring system performance relative to it's CLASS, *and* *not necessarily to hold to the benchmark standard of the most recent tech.* So if we do go with a DDR3 kit and CPU, we will be evaluating the system based on how it performs relative to other tech from that time period.


So, unfettered performance.... in a quad channel world....and has to be good at rendering? Does it matter amd or intel?


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## storm-chaser (Mar 4, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> You're addicted to memory bandwidth and latency.............ironically(?)


lol earthdog… forgive me for wanting a low latency system 
forgive me for wanting another system that has huge memory throughput

Yes, forgive me to for wanting a system with an advanced memory subsystem. 

In case you didn't get the memo, we are posting in a pc - performance related forum.


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## thesmokingman (Mar 4, 2020)

Yea but quad channel is slower than Ryzen dual channel. That's why Intel had to cut their HEDT prices in HALF.


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## eidairaman1 (Mar 4, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> lol earthdog… forgive me for wanting a low latency system
> forgive me for wanting another system that has huge memory throughput
> 
> Yes, forgive me to for wanting a system with an advanced memory subsystem.
> ...



If you have the bank grab a 3rd Gen TR bro,


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## storm-chaser (Mar 4, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> ...and you should read my next/latest post before saying such things..
> 
> Your 'essence' is unclear here (to at least me - we see different answers and suggestions because we arent clear on the essence). You mention rendering and want quad channel out of the gate so we went core heavy and explained quad didnt matter much (in case you were not aware) and other options.
> 
> So, unfettered performance.... in a quad channel world....and has to be good at rendering? Does it matter amd or intel?


Right, so what's the takeaway here? You shouldn't be sitting there being critical of something you clearly know nothing about. So you shouldn't be going around making snap judgements about a system you don't fully understand both in form and purpose. This type of behavior could be considered both foolish and amateurish.

Im leaving AMD on the table for this based on positive input feedback from earlier in the thread.


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## EarthDog (Mar 4, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> but quad channel is slower than Ryzen dual channel. That's why Intel had to cut their HEDT prices in HALF.


He doesn't seem to want unfettered.... in that manner. Just the I want quad bandwidth (which is ok!)!




storm-chaser said:


> Right, so what's the takeaway here? You shouldn't be sitting there being critical of something you clearly know nothing about. So you shouldn't be going around making snap judgements about a system you don't fully understand both in form and purpose. This type of behavior could be considered both foolish and amateurish.
> 
> Im leaving AMD on the table for this based on positive input feedback from earlier in the thread.


Surely my post can be tempered...as well as more clarity out of the gate on your part. If users have an idea what you really want, we can focus efforts to help where you want it instead of feeling it out through multiple posts in the thread... horses for courses, as you say. 

So if amd is on the table... you are locked in to threadripper based systems if you want quad channel memory. I'm not sure, but I'd check how amd memory stats look against intel before moving that direction if that is what you are after.


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## thesmokingman (Mar 4, 2020)

Yea, so it seems. It doesn't make sense to me since I look at it as a whole and not just one aspect.


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## storm-chaser (Mar 4, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> Yea, so it seems. It doesn't make sense to me since I look at it as a whole and not just one aspect.


Are you familiar with the term "overclocking"?



EarthDog said:


> He doesn't seem to want unfettered.... in that manner. Just the I want quad bandwidth (which is ok!)!
> 
> 
> Surely my post can be tempered...as well as more clarity out of the gate on your part. If users have an idea what you really want, we can focus efforts to help where you want it instead of feeling it out through multiple posts in the thread... horses for courses, as you say.
> ...


There you go again making snap judgements and putting words in my mouth. What makes you think I don't want unfettered performance?


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## thesmokingman (Mar 4, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> Are you familiar with the term "overclocking"?
> 
> 
> There you go again making snap judgements and putting words in my mouth. What makes you think I don't want unfettered performance?



Look if you wanna do something stupid, just do it. Don't ask ppl on a public forum cuz they won't get it and will point out the flaws.


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## EarthDog (Mar 4, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> There you go again making snap judgements and putting words in my mouth. What makes you think I don't want unfettered performance?


Perhaps I am still confused...

Just previously you said this:


storm-chaser said:


> Right, this build is all about maximizing memory throughput, so we will be addressing those "bottlenecks" that you speak of, to the best of our ability. Matter of fact, that's a crucial goal of the new build. *Unfettered performance, that's what were after!*
> 
> And I want to emphasis one more point. We are measuring system performance relative to it's CLASS, *and* *not necessarily to hold to the benchmark standard of the most recent tech.* So if we do go with a DDR3 kit and CPU, we will be evaluating the system based on how it performs relative to other tech from that time period.


Maximizing memory throughput and unfettered performance are two different things to me. Unfettered, by definition means to release from restraint or inhibition... your restraint for the given goal (which includes rendering performance - at least it did in the first post) is the CPU. So, it seems that you are prioritizing a quad channel system over unfettered performance (which is OK!!!) since the most unfettered performance you can get for the money you are willing to spend (going by the first post) is with a dual channel AMD Ryzen 3000 CPU (I don't think you can find a TR for $250... but not sure - if so, you may be able to get your cake and eat it too!).

I'm not judging anything. At worst I am not understanding the goals and missing on the suggestions... but hey, I'm a foolish amateur... what do I know?


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## silentbogo (Mar 4, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> First of all the build is just for fun


If it's just for fun, I'd go with cheapest adequate setup.
Anything LGA1366 won't do for video editing(my old OCed x5650@4.2GHz wasn't even able to software-decode 4K@24Hz without dropping tons frames).
I'm building something similar for my office, but the only reason why it's not ryzen, is because I have a shitton of spare parts(4GB DDR4 sticks, excellent X99 board, beefy PSU, semi-functional 240mm AIO etc), so I can spare $150 on an old CPU to save on other parts. But, if you need to buy all of it, I'd drop the idea in favor of mainstream Ryzen rig (faster and cheaper). Even those crippled chinese kits with weird 2011v3 boards can't compete with Zen in terms of perf/$ (especially with those ridiculous prices on 1000&2000 series).


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## storm-chaser (Mar 4, 2020)

HEDT - Im basically building a (*H*igh-*E*nd *D*esktop) an Intel term for high-performance desktop computers

And this is exactly what I am aiming for in terms of expectations.



thesmokingman said:


> Look if you wanna do something stupid, just do it. Don't ask ppl on a public forum cuz they won't get it and will point out the flaws.


To be honest, I don't care what you think of my build. I am merely here to lay the basic ground work, brainstorm and get advice for my next build. When I am confident in my technical hardware choices, I will pull the trigger. 

Advice is a wonderful thing, and I want to collect as much of that as possible before I proceed with the actual build. The hater's are gonna hate, and most of their comments go right into the rubbish bin.


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## EarthDog (Mar 4, 2020)

Here is some quad channel pr0n for you...  

Note, the latency is higher than dual channel... but that aside, look at the bandwidth! IIRC, AIDA64 memory tests scales (to a point?) with the processor core/thread count. If you had a 10c/20t CPU for example, I don't think these values can be reached.


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 4, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Here is some quad channel pr0n for you...
> 
> Note, the latency is higher than dual channel... but that aside, look at the bandwidth! IIRC, AIDA64 memory tests scales (to a point?) with the processor core/thread count. If you had a 10c/20t CPU for example, I don't think these values can be reached.
> 
> View attachment 147243




Damn!!!!!! mic drop on all dem Ryzen fanbois


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## mouacyk (Mar 4, 2020)

There are very few benchmarks that demonstrate the advantages of quad-channel and no applications that gain from it.  I've been trying to find one for years to tune my E5 1680-v2 towards.  That's not to say it's working great as a Linux compile server, but it wouldn't out compile a Ryzen of equal hardware.  

This all seems like a vendetta to point out Ryzen's inherent lack of quad-channel support, for what appears to be a great multi-core CPU and arch in general.  It is glued together by IF, but its core count and game cache are unmatched by Intel right now.


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## Zyll Goliat (Mar 4, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> HEDT - Im basically building a (*H*igh-*E*nd *D*esktop) an Intel term for high-performance desktop computers
> 
> And this is exactly what I am aiming for in terms of expectations.
> 
> ...


Well....I get you...Personally atm I choosed 8 core Xeon on X79 Sabertooth instead of Ryzen 1700 on B450 that I didn't want to keep for me the motherboard was crucial why I did pick X79 and yeah I also like lower latency and quad channel even if it is ddr3.....I still do not want to switch on X99 as I love this platform so I am planing to get myself 2697V2 or maybe 1680V2 but that one is still very expensive so not in a hurry I will wait for opportunity......

P.S.I also have X58 platform for few years with the 6 core Xeon....and it was GREAT + nothing can beat that fast triple-channel memory latency .......


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## EarthDog (Mar 4, 2020)

mouacyk said:


> This all seems like a vendetta to point out Ryzen's inherent lack of quad-channel support, for what appears to be a great multi-core CPU and arch in general. It is glued together by IF, but its core count and game cache are unmatched by Intel right now.


I assume you are joking about this, correct? I think almost everyone in here said to go Ryzen because it suits at least one of his mentioned requirements. Not a soul in here inferred nor said anything about that being a detriment or threw shade at the CPU/Arch/Memory, etc.

What, pray tell, made you feel that way?!


oxrufiioxo said:


> Damn!!!!!! mic drop on all dem Ryzen fanbois


Not the point!!! The man wants his quad channel bandwidth, so I posted a quick SS of what it looks like.


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 4, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> What, pray tell, made you feel that way?!
> Not the point!!! The man wants his quad channel bandwidth, so I posted a quick SS of what it looks like.



I was joking. But your system is still mighty impressive from a memory bandwidth perspective.


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## storm-chaser (Mar 4, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Perhaps I am still confused...
> 
> Just previously you said this:
> Maximizing memory throughput and unfettered performance are two different things to me. Unfettered, by definition means to release from restraint or inhibition... your restraint for the given goal (which includes rendering performance - at least it did in the first post) is the CPU. So, it seems that you are prioritizing a quad channel system over unfettered performance (which is OK!!!) since the most unfettered performance you can get for the money you are willing to spend (going by the first post) is with a dual channel AMD Ryzen 3000 CPU (I don't think you can find a TR for $250... but not sure - if so, you may be able to get your cake and eat it too!).
> ...


My CPU choice is yet to be determined. "Unfettered" is akin to "pulling out all the stops" and essentially synonymous with the end goals of overclocking. One of those stops is maximizing memory throughput,* one component that is crucial in order to obtain "unfettered" performance.* Get it? And yes, I am favoring memory bandwidth over memory latency with this build.

*I think part of the problem here is that I do not have an exact "spec" on the PC for you guys to follow. *

In other words, peoples perspective's, like earthdogs, might be tainted because they think I already have my heart set on one thing or another. But the reality is, I wanted to further "vet" my processor and hardware choices here, and get feedback on how the build should proceed. Very much just the planning phase, and that's exactly why I posted this thread so the build could evolve properly into a worthwhile creation. I am not ruling anything out at this point in terms of hardware selection.

But at the end of the day, this is just me having fun, and that's why I love computers.


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## EarthDog (Mar 5, 2020)

So your choices are...

The cpus you listed...6850k is the best choice there for quad channel and bandwidth. Best overall is x399 and threadripper...but that may be outside of your budget. Best overall within budget but not quad ch mem is ryzen 3000.



storm-chaser said:


> *think part of the problem here is that I do not have an exact "spec" on the PC for you guys to follow. *


I assure you that isnt it...


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## storm-chaser (Mar 5, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> So your choices are...
> 
> The cpus you listed...6850k is the best choice there for quad channel and bandwidth. Best overall is x399 and threadripper...but that may be outside of your budget. Best overall within budget but not quad ch mem is ryzen 3000.
> 
> I assure you that isnt it...



So let's take all the pre-requisites out for a moment....

Earthdog and others, what type of rig would you like to see? Just brainstorming idea's here, I like using rare and unique processors so I don't mind if the hardware in question is dated. I am looking for a fun experience, possibly a new platform to learn, and moderate overclocking to go along with that. In other words, what were some of your most rewarding overclocks? I want to tap into that knowledge.


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## oxrufiioxo (Mar 5, 2020)

if your hearts set on Intel HEDT then go for it my x99 system was super fun more so than my 9900k or 3900X ( lots of headaches with memory running above 3000Mhz though )  when it comes to tweaking but from a pure performance standpoint when it comes to rendering  Ryzen is king.


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## Zyll Goliat (Mar 5, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> if your hearts set on Intel HEDT then go for it my x99 system was super fun more so than my 9900k or 3900X ( lots of headaches with memory running above 3000Mhz though )  when it comes to tweaking but from a pure performance standpoint when it comes to rendering  Ryzen is king.


Well yeah sure there is no doubt that Ryzen overall performs better especially 3000 series where the IPC is way more improved comparing to the first Ryzen series but again the OP obviously have his reasons why he wants to pick some of the platform he mention in his opening post.....If you ask me I will pick X99 or X79 in that case but also I always want to go with the price/performance ratio first so it's really depends what he can find and for what price.....few month ago I get myself X79 Sabertooth+Xeon 2650V2 with total cost of 130€ but yeah I am well aware that still X58,X79 and X99 could be also pricey in certain countries and that you really need to sniff and look around to find a good deals for those platforms.......


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## silentbogo (Mar 5, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> I am looking for a fun experience, possibly a new platform to learn, and moderate overclocking to go along with that. In other words, what were some of your most rewarding overclocks? I want to tap into that knowledge.


First, you need to figure out your goals, cause right now everything you listed collides and bounces with each other.
Most "rewarding" overclock is only possible on LGA1366 with a good motherboard (ASUS Rampage II/III etc), but as I said earlier - it's too old and too slow to do other things, like media encoding and crypto.
Any platform that came after that won't give you impressive +80%OC on CPUs that cost like two cups of coffee.
2011v1 is very cheap nowadays, but there's a reason - it's slow.
2011v3 is currently a sweet-spot for HEDT build, pretty much where 1366 was all those years ago. There are $20 refurb. Xeons on Aliexpress, it's still compatible with many modern parts, and it's still fast enough to do most modern workloads, while giving you some room for expansion. Also, something like i7-5820K can be found under $150 nowadays, which is still far from cheap but at least reasonable.
I found one locally for around $110, which will go into my abovementioned office workstation (assuming I didn't f#$k up SuperI/O replacement). 6950X is still too expensive to justify it over newer platforms, so the only reasonable way to make it more powerful is to throw more cores at the problem (e.g. buy Xeon E5 v3/v4)

2066 - not worth it. 
If you really want to spend money - you could try 1st gen threadripper. Prices on brand new parts are low-enough to justify the purchase, and performance is pretty good. The only con is that sTR4 is already a dead-end platform.


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## storm-chaser (Mar 5, 2020)

Well I already have a tiny gaming PC build on the horizon, so I wont be doing micro atx / compact stuff here.

How should I say this... *In this case* I am not interested in competing with the latest tech on the market. Which opens doors in terms of using older hardware. Hence, I don't need to hold this system's performance to the standard of current technology. Sure we will overclock and sure we will extract just as much as we can in terms of throughput, but this is a little like buying a classic car, you get it for the driving experience and you get it because it's distinctive from that time and place. You don't get it for all out brute performance and you certainly don't measure it's value based upon the speed of newer vehicles. Unless you live in Australia. Then you throw a big block in it and a blower and you are set and ready for huge burnouts.


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## kapone32 (Mar 5, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> Well I already have a tiny gaming PC build on the horizon, so I wont be doing micro atx / compact stuff here.
> 
> How should I say this... *In this case* I am not interested in competing with the latest tech on the market. Which opens doors in terms of using older hardware. Hence, I don't need to hold this system's performance to the standard of current technology. Sure we will overclock and sure we will extract just as much as we can in terms of throughput, but this is a little like buying a classic car, you get it for the driving experience and you get it because it's distinctive from that time and place. You don't get it for all out brute performance and you certainly don't measure it's value based upon the speed of newer vehicles. Unless you live in Australia. Then you throw a big block in it and a blower and you are set and ready for huge burnouts.




Regardless of what whoever says if you want a system to play with (as you already have a gaming rig) X399 is for me a no brainer. 64 PCI_E lanes is stupid crazy. The 1900X can be had for as low as $149.99 and as much as there were teething issues with X399 BIOS updates have solved a ton of issues the 1920X is $349 and will OC to 4.1 GHZ @ 1.275 volts. One thing I can say as an owner of TR4 is all my games are butter smooth at 4K. You can buy Expansion cards for $80 and put 4 NVME drives in RAID 0 or you could use one or 2 of those and have an all NVME based RAID 0 system across up to 13 NVME drives. Not all X399 boards are made the same though to be honest the best choices based on my testing are As Rock and MSI. If you don't plan on using more than 1 GPU the X399 Phantom Gaming 6 or X399 TaichiM are great as you get 3 fully wired 16 slots.


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## EarthDog (Mar 5, 2020)

silentbogo said:


> First, you need to figure out your goals, cause right now everything you listed collides and bounces with each other.


This. The details of this build have changed dramatically since the first post.

As far as what I want, SChaser... I want you to achieve whatever goal you have set for this build. At this point, I'm still unclear. The first post is a render/advanced cpu work machine, then we go benchmarking/unfettered, then it's benchmarking against like systems, then its 'you pick what you want to see'... so I'm not sure which way is up. Are we still focused on quad channel as a requirement or is that one tidbit from the first post left?

THAT, SChaser, is the painful part for many is that you come across as all over the map. Like other threads, sometimes your thought process is difficult to follow ... it feels like a constantly moving target. We get that you can change your mind and focus on w/e you want to focus on. Nobody said otherwise...but don't bark at users who are trying to help inform you of things (like quad channel RAM not really making a difference in the original use, rendering) ... and then move the goal posts to fit that narrative. If it was there all along, cool... but know e are not mind readers! Do not harsh myself or other users for not knowing (you wanted to benchmark and rate this thing)...we are not 'holding the man down', nor do we want to hear you play the role of a (faux) martyr 'forgive me for building a low latency machine....forgive me for wanting advanced ram subsystem...etc'. That is the type of thread and posts that turn people off of helping. So, I'm not so much tainted that you don't know what you want, just the process with which you try to narrow things down (new information in every post!!!) takes a toll on those helping.

So, in the end, I don't want to see you in anything except whatever meets your goals (whatever those are at this point). I've listed, 3 times already I think, suggestions for the use model in the first post. People have regurgitated suggestions all over to your ever changing requirements. There is plenty here to make an informed decision based on whatever goals are in mind before going to the store and checking out or clicking buy online.

If you want quad channel just to have quad channel and see bigger numbers, so be it. DO IT! 6850K. If you want to render a lot faster and have quad channel (unrelated items, note), pony up the coin for threadripper/X399 like kapone suggested. If you don't want to spend the coin on TR, but want to render faster than the intel, then Ryzen 3000 and its dual channel memory will spank every intel you listed (assuming you spend $250 on the CPU as you have listed int he first post). You can benchmark all three of these machines.

GL, but I think I'm jumping off the merry-go-round at this point...


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## storm-chaser (Mar 5, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> GL, but I think I'm jumping off the merry-go-round at this point...


Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

To the people that are having great difficulty understanding why I posted this in the "System Builders Advice" sub forum. Apparently, you don't understand the concept of advisement. Hint: *People usually get advice when their goals are not so well defined, and such is the situation with this case. *The whole point is to refine my decision making here with assistance from fellow computer enthusiasts. So your entire line of thinking (jumping off the ship because my goals are not yet clearly defined) runs contrary to the very premise of this sub forum. LOL 

Usually, you do the consulting / advisement stuff first and then you pull the trigger on the required hardware. In a general sense, my guidelines are still the same, in so much that I want to build a HEDT pc. *Of what generation is yet to be determined.* This is a clean slate, I am just taking what I see and evaluating it based on what I want. I essentially want an idea I can run with. *And obviously, and this goes without saying, nearly everything that earthdog says goes directly into the rubbish bin. Tough to grasp the stifle level with that guy around. *

Keep in mind, and as usual, you are the only proverbial bull in the china shop out of the whole lot. Perhaps you should reflect on this for a few minutes before you respond again. Oh, but that's right you are out of here! Off this merry go round as you put it... And I couldn't be more pleased


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## basco (Mar 5, 2020)

i would go 6800k because of price(new 300.- euro) and oc the shhiiit out of it just 200mhz lower then 6850k and bandwith ya know is good on x99.
you are on a pc building spree-yeehaw


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## storm-chaser (Mar 5, 2020)

basco said:


> i would go 6800k because of price(new 300.- euro) and oc the shhiiit out of it just 200mhz lower then 6850k and bandwith ya know is good on x99.
> you are on a pc building spree-yeehaw


Yes, definitely making up for lost time here! 

10-4 on the CPU. I will take that under advisement.


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## repman244 (Mar 5, 2020)

For the X79 platform look at Xeon 1680/1650 V2, they are unlocked and you have access to all of the CPU cache and they usually clock better than desktop parts - however they don't have dual CPU support.
For X99 you can also look at Xeon 1680 V3 - it is unlocked but much more expensive so I would stick to X79 or X299.


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## Fry178 (Mar 5, 2020)

@storm-chaser
next time start with putting out ALL the info YOU have, and others wont have to guess and use their crystal ball only to get shot down by you
because requirement/you changed your mind.
and even if you DONT know (for what), say so, and state "this build is for fun, nothing else",
and we would have seen a lot earlier that your not trying to do a build for a purpose (other than to build it), not having to guess for pages.

dont complain when you ask whats the best car to mess with, only to reject a 2y old 2-door sports car, because you didnt tell us your married with a  kid and a dog.


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## yotano211 (Mar 5, 2020)

Get the i9 9880h


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## masterdeejay (Mar 5, 2020)

Chinese x99 ddr3 mobo and some cheap 12-14core xeon high all core turbo + hack.
Jingsha x99-8d3 (8xddr3) or Huhananzi x99-tf (4+4 ddr3 and ddr4 support) but there a lot of mobo for this 2011v3.
Ecc reg ddr3 is dirt cheap and oc well.
2011v1 is even cheaper. Old platform but still very good price/performance. Few (1650-60-80) xeons are unlocked.
And it is interesting fun build.


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## thesmokingman (Mar 5, 2020)

This thread is like a veiled attempt to troll.


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## phanbuey (Mar 5, 2020)

masterdeejay said:


> Chinese x99 ddr3 mobo and some cheap 12-14core xeon high all core turbo + hack.
> Jingsha x99-8d3 (8xddr3) or Huhananzi x99-tf (4+4 ddr3 and ddr4 support) but there a lot of mobo for this 2011v3.
> Ecc reg ddr3 is dirt cheap and oc well.
> 2011v1 is even cheaper. Old platform but still very good price/performance. Few (1650-60-80) xeons are unlocked.
> And it is interesting fun build.



yah this^ I've always wanted to put together a frankenrig like that but just don't have the time to mess with it.  A board that can take one of those old ES chips or one pulled out of a server somwehere.

the benefit of intel not changing architectures for the last 7 years is they are still extremely relevant.



















						Intel Xeon E5 2690 V4 ES QHV5 2.4Ghz 35MB 14Core 14nm 135W LGA2011-3 Processor  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Intel Xeon E5 2690 V4 ES QHV5 2.4Ghz 35MB 14Core 14nm 135W LGA2011-3 Processor at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				




14 core broadwell with 35 mb of cache is nothing to sneeze at for $288  ES it's a steal - just make sure the board bios will accept the ES chips, usually the seller has suggestions of which work.


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## moproblems99 (Mar 5, 2020)

Since in your very first post you said this was for fun, take the one that is the greatest challenge and has the most to gain from tweaking/overclocking.

It seems to me, after struggling to get through the thread, that you are after the journey more than the destination.  My vote is to take the one you see as the biggest challenge with the most learning opportunities.


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## masterdeejay (Mar 5, 2020)

phanbuey said:


> yah this^ I've always wanted to put together a frankenrig like that but just don't have the time to mess with it.  A board that can take one of those old ES chips or one pulled out of a server somwehere.
> 
> the benefit of intel not changing architectures for the last 7 years is they are still extremely relevant.
> 
> ...


V3 Haswell is better price/performance
2673v3 3.1ghz turbo 105w tdp is 125usd on ebay or
2683v3 14 core 3ghz 190usd
V4 Broadwell is only a few percent better in ipc. And haswell (e5-26xxv3) have all core turbo hack, a free overclock for all boards (old microcode+hacked efi firmware driver)
I dont know that v4 have turbo hack.


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## bogmali (Mar 5, 2020)

To those that failed to understand (again), look at the title and 1st post.....the choices are listed by the OP so why are there arguments about Ryzen or TR? I mean someone comments about a troll attempt but I look at their post and see them pushing Ryzen/TR, why do guys do this and complain when your post gets deleted/LQ'd?


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## moproblems99 (Mar 5, 2020)

bogmali said:


> To those that failed to understand (again), look at the title and 1st post.....the choices are listed by the OP so why are there arguments about Ryzen or TR? I mean someone comments about a troll attempt but I look at their post and see them pushing Ryzen/TR, why do guys do this and complain when your post gets deleted/LQ'd?



While it wasn't me, I think Ryzen/TR are very valid options in both the OP's desires and requirements.  In fact, they fit better than the OP suggested options.  Since the thread is asking for advice (sort of), it seems relevant from where I sit.


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## Nero1024 (Mar 5, 2020)

Intel BX80673I77800X Core i7-7800X 3.5 GHz Hexa-Core  Processor. <<< No other choice, it's the best one


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## masterdeejay (Mar 5, 2020)

So the final thing is imho:
For rendering:
12-18 cores at 3ghz+ is better than an unlocked 6core 4ghz oven. 
Ddr3 ecc reg is a lot cheaper than ddr4.
And more cores is better in the future. Downside is weaker single core performance.
For games:
Any unlocked cheap v2 xeon x79 1650-1660-1680 oc to 4ghz+
Ram for these builds any 1066-1333 ddr3 ecc reg with the same chips that on 1600/1866 modules. (Check manufaturers datasheet like samsung K4B4G0446C or D) so it can run stock voltage 1866 or oc to 2133.


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## bogmali (Mar 5, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> While it wasn't me, I think Ryzen/TR are very valid options in both the OP's desires and requirements.  In fact, they fit better than the OP suggested options.  Since the thread is asking for advice (sort of), it seems relevant from where I sit.



If that were the case (which I understand where you're coming) he would have listed/added that in his initial post right? I don't see where in that post that he even mentions an AMD CPU and he lists what he wants via some options.....so I am confused with this "Ryzen/TR is better" when clearly its not one of the options and then proceed to argue


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## king of swag187 (Mar 5, 2020)

990X can be beaten by a $20 Xeon, 4930K by a $60 Xeon, 5930K by a $120 2600, 7800X by a 1920X, same for the 6850K,


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## thesmokingman (Mar 5, 2020)

bogmali said:


> If that were the case (which I understand where you're coming) he would have listed/added that in his initial post right? I don't see where in that post that he even mentions an AMD CPU and he lists what he wants via some options.....so I am confused with this "Ryzen/TR is better" when clearly its not one of the options and then proceed to argue



He wrote in later post that he's open to anything, AMD included.


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## milewski1015 (Mar 5, 2020)

bogmali said:


> To those that failed to understand (again), look at the title and 1st post.....the choices are listed by the OP so why are there arguments about Ryzen or TR? I mean someone comments about a troll attempt but I look at their post and see them pushing Ryzen/TR, why do guys do this and complain when your post gets deleted/LQ'd?



I'm thinking that this why people started suggesting TR:



storm-chaser said:


> but I want to build out a specific workhorse for video rendering and advanced work loads.





storm-chaser said:


> I was thinking a DDR4 platform, newer, faster, but also more expensive.





storm-chaser said:


> quad channel memory.



As @moproblems99 mentioned, TR especially meets these requirements. 

I agree with @EarthDog that it seemed like the focus of the build bounced all over the place. Now that we've finally extracted the truth though, it becomes easier to give advice.



bogmali said:


> If that were the case (which I understand where you're coming) he would have listed/added that in his initial post right? I don't see where in that post that he even mentions an AMD CPU and he lists what he wants via some options.....so I am confused with this "Ryzen/TR is better" when clearly its not one of the options and then proceed to argue



It's like if someone asked for advice on a gaming rig and only listed 1050 Ti models for a GPU option - any sensible person is going to advise them to get the faster and cheaper RX 570


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## thesmokingman (Mar 5, 2020)

milewski1015 said:


> I'm thinking that this why people started suggesting TR:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But then the OP ignores everything.


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## moproblems99 (Mar 5, 2020)

bogmali said:


> If that were the case (which I understand where you're coming) he would have listed/added that in his initial post right? I don't see where in that post that he even mentions an AMD CPU and he lists what he wants via some options.....so I am confused with this "Ryzen/TR is better" when clearly its not one of the options and then proceed to argue



So I don't want to derail further, but sometimes when we ask for help, we don't know what we want.  If we really knew all the options and the pros and cons of each, no one would need to ask for help.  I'll gladly discuss via PM if you would like as it is always nice to know where mods sit on these issues.


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## milewski1015 (Mar 5, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> So I don't want to derail further, but sometimes when we ask for help, we don't know what we want.  If we really knew all the options and the pros and cons of each, no one would need to ask for help.  I'll gladly discuss via PM if you would like as it is always nice to know where mods sit on these issues.



It seems like he didn't know what he wanted:


storm-chaser said:


> I will likely sell later, but I want to build out a specific workhorse for video rendering and advanced work loads.





storm-chaser said:


> I am looking for a fun experience, possibly a new platform to learn, and moderate overclocking to go along with that.





storm-chaser said:


> HEDT - Im basically building a (*H*igh-*E*nd *D*esktop)



No wonder people were struggling to give advice...

@moproblems99 I think your mention of pros and cons is spot on - that's how OP should have gone about this thread: listed the bare minimum requirements (unlocked multiplier, quad channel memory), and then asked for others to provide options wit the pros and cons of each (TR pros: high performance. TR cons: expensive. etc etc)


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## bogmali (Mar 5, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> He wrote in later post that he's open to anything, AMD included.






milewski1015 said:


> I'm thinking that this why people started suggesting TR:
> 
> 
> As @moproblems99 mentioned, TR especially meets these requirements.
> ...



OK so he added that after numerous suggestions but I'm going off what is on the 1st post. Sensible person you say, some of these comments are nowhere near that but rather confrontational (imo)



moproblems99 said:


> So I don't want to derail further, but sometimes when we ask for help, we don't know what we want.  If we really knew all the options and the pros and cons of each, no one would need to ask for help.  I'll gladly discuss via PM if you would like as it is always nice to know where mods sit on these issues.



My take is that I am assuming when you posts these kind of threads, you have done your due diligence as to what you want and just a matter what everyone recommends based on the selections that you included (or am I assuming a lot?).


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 5, 2020)

storm-chaser said:


> *INTEL ONLY.*
> 
> Intel BX80633I74930K Core i7-4930K Hexa-Core Processor: $250.00 (QUAD channel, DDR3) LGA 2011
> 
> ...


Of these choices, I would recommend none.

IF you are going to go with socket 1366, skip the i7 and get a Xeon X5680 or X5690. 6 cores each at half the price of their i7 counterparts.
IF you are going with 2011, again skip the i7 as the Xeon E5-2667-V2 or E5-2667-V3 are your best choice for balance of cores/speed/price. Anything newer is going to get pricey, but there is the E5-2667-V4.
As for 2066, you may as well go brand new as the prices for used are only marginally less than new parts.


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## moproblems99 (Mar 5, 2020)

bogmali said:


> My take is that I am assuming when you posts these kind of threads, you have done your due diligence as to what you want and just a matter what everyone recommends based on the selections that you included (or am I assuming a lot?).



Did you read the thread? Could you actually make heads or tails what was really wanted? I couldn't.  It went from rendering to memory throughput to all out performance to bechmarking and then a few places in between.  That is why my recommendation was agnostic to basically everything and provided almost no help.  I still don't have clue what the purpose is.  Again, the OP does have some problem taking advice or criticism that isn't perfectly worded.  Again, these things can be addressed (we did in his other thread) but with the OPs mannerisms, a clear understanding of what is at hand is vital for anyone helping.  Yes, some of the advice was borderline hostile but I can slightly understand when people are labeled as a hater when giving criticism.


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## milewski1015 (Mar 5, 2020)

bogmali said:


> OK so he added that after numerous suggestions but I'm going off what is on the 1st post. Sensible person you say, some of these comments are nowhere near that but rather confrontational (imo)


All three of those listed reasons were present in the first post. I would agree that some of the suggestions do come off confrontational, but again, @moproblems99 hit the nail on the head:


moproblems99 said:


> Yes, some of the advice was borderline hostile but I can slightly understand when people are labeled as a hater when giving criticism.


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## bogmali (Mar 5, 2020)

moproblems99 said:


> Did you read the thread? Could you actually make heads or tails what was really wanted? I couldn't.  It went from rendering to memory throughput to all out performance to bechmarking and then a few places in between.  That is why my recommendation was agnostic to basically everything and provided almost no help.  I still don't have clue what the purpose is.  Again, the OP does have some problem taking advice or criticism that isn't perfectly worded.  Again, these things can be addressed (we did in his other thread) but with the OPs mannerisms, a clear understanding of what is at hand is vital for anyone helping.  Yes, some of the advice was borderline hostile but I can slightly understand when people are labeled as a hater when giving criticism.



Not sure why you got all defensive but yes I did read it and if I go back I still do not see where he listed AMD (on post #1) and that was what I said on my previous post. I didn't specifically call out someone because there a few that were just confrontational with their suggestions but hey if the shoe fits, wear it

Not here to argue your point as you are entitled to it, just wanted to steer the thread back on course


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## HammerON (Mar 5, 2020)

This thread has run it's course.  The OP should have enough information to make an informed decision.


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