# HD5870 Modding to WATER:  How important to cool these chips?



## Sasqui (Feb 7, 2010)

I'm putting a Swiftech waterblock on an XFX XXX 5870...

Using Enzotech copper coolers, but I *cannot* get the smaller coolers to stick on the silicon of some smaller VRM chips.  Cleaned well with 91% alcohol, etc. Memory and all others are secure.  The problem chips are shown here (there's one more towards the fronth of the card):







I see on my cooler and the TPU 5870 and 5850 reviews, that the stock heat plate has cooling pads for those:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/4.html

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_5850/4.html

So, if I leave them BARE, will I do damage, etc.???


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## InTeL-iNsIdE (Feb 7, 2010)

They do indeed look like vrm's and if that is the case I would be weary not having some kind of cooling on them as they can get very toasty, though I have no idea how they get on the 5 series cards, I would suggest getting some thermal tape/adhesive just to be on the safe side.


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## erocker (Feb 7, 2010)

They most definitely need to be heatsinked for cooling. Active cooling (side fan, fan blowing on them etc.) if possible. Maybe consider getting a full coverage block.


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## stanhemi (Feb 7, 2010)

probably need something like this or similar or a full waterblock


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## Sasqui (Feb 7, 2010)

THX for the replies...  shit!  The thermal tape supplied with the Enzotech just wont stick to them - even tried 100% acetone .  I'm considering roughing them up at the surface with fine grit now... BRB


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## pantherx12 (Feb 7, 2010)

No need, buy some akasa a55 silicon thermal paste, its sticky but not an epoxy so it can hold small heatsinks down no problem!


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## Sasqui (Feb 7, 2010)

pantherx12 said:


> No need, buy some akasa a55 silicon thermal paste, its sticky but not an epoxy so it can hold small heatsinks down no problem!



I'm sure that would be better...

So far, a roughing up with 400 grit on a chip, now it's holding...  More to come.


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## cadaveca (Feb 7, 2010)

You MUST cool those chips, or your card will die a quick death.

TIP: Zipties, Zipties, Zipties. Cops use 'em instead of handcuffs, i use 'em for wire management, and to make things stay in place  That said, I'd be using a thermal pad  to "buffer" those chips so that the heatsink doesn't rock in place and crush this chips...think a la old AMD Barton chips, with pads outside the silicon...and zipties teh heatsink down using the provided holes in the pcb.


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## angelkiller (Feb 7, 2010)

'Roughing them up' sounds like a bad idea. People lap CPUs to get them flatter, so they can make better contact with a heatsink. Making the surface rougher, may allow an adhesive to stick, but I would think that this hurts heat transfer.

My ideal solution would be this. But I don't know compatibility or cost. Maybe it's moddable?


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## pantherx12 (Feb 7, 2010)

Sasqui said:


> I'm sure that would be better...



Doing it right now, works a treat.


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## SystemViper (Feb 7, 2010)

keep us posted on the kinda gains you will get from water, i was thinking of getting the koolance full card block


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## Beertintedgoggles (Feb 7, 2010)

If you wanted a ghetto solution to it, this should be pretty simple since they all seem to align in a straight line.  Also they are pretty much centered (not offset) from the through-holes.  If you can make a small (maybe 3mm wide) piece of metal (or other rigid material you can find) that's long enough then you could use that a type of screw down retainer to hold the heat sinks on.  I've actually used this approach on some mods of my own; I'd take a picture but I'm away thanks to business for I don't know how much longer...  It'd look something like in the very quick sketch below:






Disclaimer:  I never said it'd look good.


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## wakkierob (Feb 7, 2010)

Sasqui said:


> I'm putting a Swiftech waterblock on an XFX XXX 5870...
> 
> Using Enzotech copper coolers, but I *cannot* get the smaller coolers to stick on the silicon of some smaller VRM chips.  Cleaned well with 91% alcohol, etc. Memory and all others are secure.  The problem chips are shown here (there's one more towards the fronth of the card):
> 
> ...


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## Sasqui (Feb 7, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> You MUST cool those chips, or your card will die a quick death.
> 
> TIP: Zipties, Zipties, Zipties. Cops use 'em instead of handcuffs, i use 'em for wire management, and to make things stay in place  That said, I'd be using a thermal pad  to "buffer" those chips so that the heatsink doesn't rock in place and crush this chips...think a la old AMD Barton chips, with pads outside the silicon...and zipties teh heatsink down using the provided holes in the pcb.



I was going to do something along those lines... after the 400 grit, the one I've tried seems to have held pretty good.

I had to slice a few of the copper one in half using a drill press... slide vise and dremel cutoff.  About to clean those up and install.

Will be setting on a radiator overnight to see how they hold.

One lesson learned - always have a backup video card!  LOL


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## Sasqui (Feb 7, 2010)

Beertintedgoggles said:


> If you wanted a ghetto solution to it, this should be pretty simple since they all seem to align in a straight line.  Also they are pretty much centered (not offset) from the through-holes.  If you can make a small (maybe 3mm wide) piece of metal (or other rigid material you can find) that's long enough then you could use that a type of screw down retainer to hold the heat sinks on.  I've actually used this approach on some mods of my own; I'd take a picture but I'm away thanks to business for I don't know how much longer...  It'd look something like in the very quick sketch below:
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/100207/ghetto heat sink holder.jpg
> 
> Disclaimer:  I never said it'd look good.



That's where I was headed at one point... and I'm not looking for beauty!






Works for the back of the card - there is one more of those towards the I/O part...  I'll be posting pics of what I whink may work (without testing yet)


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## Sasqui (Feb 7, 2010)

Here's the first one:






Pray...


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## cadaveca (Feb 7, 2010)

You best put a fan blowing in them...


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## MKmods (Feb 7, 2010)

ur pretty brave to use ANY tape to hold all those pieces on (I wouldnt) as the part heats up the tape becomes weaker and all it takes is 1 piece to drop and make a short.


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## Sasqui (Feb 7, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> You best put a fan blowing in them...



The side fan from the HAF will do the trick...  I figure it's better than the relatively passive plate they had on to begin with.



MKmods said:


> ur pretty brave to use ANY tape to hold all those pieces on (I wouldnt) as the part heats up the tape becomes weaker and all it takes is 1 piece to drop and make a short.



I'm thinking of roasting the card heatinsk down for a night at 170f..

I'm I fucking nuts?


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## MKmods (Feb 7, 2010)

Sasqui said:


> I'm I fucking nuts?



 YES

I LOVE the enzo coolers but I use AS epoxy to mount them. But because you have such an expensive card that wouldnt help much for RMAs.

I would make a piece that held down the pieces and mounted using the holes in the card.

Or I would dissect the original cooler and mount the water block into it.

Both ways is a pain in the ass but would a LOT safer for such a $$$ card.

(normally I dont like full coverage water coolers but this is one of the reasons to use one)


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## Sasqui (Feb 8, 2010)

Thank you MK!   (compliment)... After some work, it came out well...

I wouldn't try to move the card via the small heatsinks... but I can lift the card easily with the ram sinks and the other large one (whatever they are cooling):






Here's the reason for doing all this!






I'm going to "Bake" this tonight on a radiator... should get to 150f or more.  Might put in the oven upside-down after that to make sure nothing "falls off" lol


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## MKmods (Feb 8, 2010)

will you have a fan on the heatsinks too? It would be interesting to see the difference in temps with/without a fan.
(I was thinking of making some air/water hybrid coolers for the 5830s if they ever show up)


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## Sasqui (Feb 8, 2010)

MKmods said:


> will you have a fan on the heatsinks too? It would be interesting to see the difference in temps with/without a fan.
> (I was thinking of making some air/water hybrid coolers for the 5830s if they ever show up)



It'll be sitting front and center of a 230mm HAF case fan...  All of those components are under a stock heat-spreader plate with thick thermal pads.  I.E.> it's got to be better than stock now.  Unless one of the heatsinks falls off.


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## MKmods (Feb 8, 2010)

I never compared tape to the thicker pads but they have to suck when it comes to transferring heat.

Could you please take a pict of the back side of the stock cooler?


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## Sasqui (Feb 8, 2010)

MKmods said:


> I never compared tape to the thicker pads but they have to suck when it comes to transferring heat.
> 
> Could you please take a pict of the back side of the stock cooler?








Same as W1zzards review...  http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/3.html


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## Reefer86 (Feb 8, 2010)

those little heatsinks are not enough for those vrm's they run hot, i would be seriously very very careful. Even if they did cool the card enough you will find that it wont overclock as the vrm's will heat up to much.


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## overclocking101 (Feb 8, 2010)

wait wait wait!! did you say you are going to heat the card up purposely??? DONT those cards are very expensive something like that


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## Steevo (Feb 8, 2010)

I used superglue, and mark had my machine for awhile, it was shipped twice on UPS, and has been moved a couple times in the house besides being moved for cleaning. Use a good cleaner to remove the aluminum shim and adhesive to get to bare copper.


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## Sasqui (Feb 8, 2010)

overclocking101 said:


> wait wait wait!! did you say you are going to heat the card up purposely??? DONT those cards are very expensive something like that



Just sitting on a 170 deg radiator...  the heatsinks/tape are firming up nicely.


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## Velvet Wafer (Feb 8, 2010)

tried to put some soft, standard type glue on the edges,with a little dot of TIM in the mid?
that did the trick for me, regarding some used heatsinks,that failed to stick. i did it to some ram IC´s,on one of my actual 8800gt, but i believe it could also work out well on those tiny VRM


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## wakkierob (Feb 8, 2010)

Sasqui said:


> Thank you MK!   (compliment)... After some work, it came out well...
> 
> I wouldn't try to move the card via the small heatsinks... but I can lift the card easily with the ram sinks and the other large one (whatever they are cooling):
> 
> ...



Great looks cool even if you did have to go to extraordernary lengh to get it the heat sinks do look cool and the bent ones you wont c so hopefully there hold with the ruthed up ram surface hope it work 4 u great stuff and if it works you could do some benchies! lol


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## pantherx12 (Feb 8, 2010)

Wow I can't believe you done all that when you could of just used silicon thermal paste and a hair drier.


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## Altered (Feb 8, 2010)

Give the little man credit he is putting his nuts on the line. 





Interested to see if this works or .


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## wakkierob (Feb 8, 2010)

Altered said:


> Give the little man credit he is putting his nuts on the line.
> http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/squirrel_nuts_1.jpg
> Interested to see if this works or .



LOL


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## Sasqui (Feb 8, 2010)

I got to admit, I'm nervous about trying it... only because of the two miniscule chips towards the rear of the card (about 2x2mm) - there just isn't enough surface area to get a good grip with thermal tape - I can easily rock the copper coolers with my finger.  The others have set well, despite being ony about 3x4 mm

Anyone out there have a stock 5870 cooler they want to sell?  I'd butcher the plate to get contact on those little buggers.  I don't want to ruin the OEM heatsink I have.


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## Velvet Wafer (Feb 8, 2010)

Sasqui said:


> I got to admit, I'm nervous about trying it... only because of the two miniscule chips towards the rear of the card (about 2x2mm) - there just isn't enough surface area to get a good grip with thermal tape - I can easily rock the copper coolers with my finger.  The others have set well, despite being ony about 3x4 mm
> 
> Anyone out there have a stock 5870 cooler they want to sell?  I'd butcher the plate to get contact on those little buggers.  I don't want to ruin the OEM heatsink I have.



Sasqui,
look at post 30, have you already tried that? glueing is very effective, and removable, if you take a soft paper or cardboard glue, and a little mx-2


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## Sasqui (Feb 8, 2010)

Velvet Wafer said:


> Sasqui,
> look at post 30, have you already tried that? glueing is very effective, and removable, if you take a soft paper or cardboard glue, and a little mx-2



Those little buggers are so small, that I'm hesitant to try anything but thermal tape.

One issue I ran into is that the enzotech "tape" really isn't tape - it's very thin pad material, and has a tendancy to flex on those really small surface areas (there's only two of them).

The chips are about the size of this -> []  ...depending on your screen


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## Sasqui (Feb 8, 2010)

And I repeat... anyone know where I could get a stock heatsink (or simply the front/back plates) for an HD5870?


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## Wrigleyvillain (Feb 8, 2010)

Why are some of those sinks bent like that? As for the stock heat sink mb someone at XS. That's where I would start.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 8, 2010)

Wow. That is very brave using those little tiny heatsinks on the VRMs. Be sure to run GPUz during a FUrmark test and see how hot your VRMs are going to get. Im betting they will be over or pushing 120c. You are going to burn this card up, or be forced to underclock it...even with your gpu on water those VRMs are critical and need to keep cool. Under 100c for sure.


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## Sasqui (Feb 8, 2010)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Wow. That is very brave using those little tiny heatsinks on the VRMs. Be sure to run GPUz during a FUrmark test and see how hot your VRMs are going to get. Im betting they will be over or pushing 120c. You are going to burn this card up, or be forced to underclock it...even with your gpu on water those VRMs are critical and need to keep cool. Under 100c for sure.



Hence the desire to get them covered the right way!

An uninformed question - will GPUz show me the temps of the VRM's?  Since there are 7 of them, how will I know which ones are frying?


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## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 8, 2010)

Hmmm trying to think when I ran it. I think it shows them in "banks" I know it shows 5-7 readings on the VRMs. If any of them are over 120c it's probably time to rethink this approach.

When I first got my 5870 I had a swiftech mcw-60 and was going to order this. http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/ima...NKS/5850 heatsink and mcw60 installedX800.jpg (they also have a 5870)

I also tossed around the idea of modding the stock heatsink, keeping the fan and vreg cooling and removing/cutting away the rest. This was done on a gtx280 and it worked pretty well so I thought it might work here. The end result was getting a full cover EK block and was the best choice and I am glad I went with it...however it wasn't cheap.


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## cadaveca (Feb 8, 2010)

Sasqui, just take a look at that thermalright heatsink...you can also get a smaller Zalman ALU heatsink as well(around $20), but that thermalright heatsink is so beefy for a reason...

and yes, gpu-z show individual fet temps.

Oh, and I beleive Swiftech has a full-cover heatsink(around $30) for fets and ram...


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## Sasqui (Feb 8, 2010)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> When I first got my 5870 I had a swiftech mcw-60 and was going to order this. http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/ima...NKS/5850 heatsink and mcw60 installedX800.jpg (they also have a 5870)





cadaveca said:


> Sasqui, just take a look at that thermalright heatsink...you can also get a smaller Zalman ALU heatsink as well(around $20), but that thermalright heatsink is so beefy for a reason...
> 
> and yes, gpu-z show individual fet temps.
> 
> Oh, and I beleive Swiftech has a full-cover heatsink(around $30) for fets and ram...



Yea, I found the Swiftech full-cover:  http://www.aerocooler.com/shop.cart?action=ITEM&prod_id=FANSW58HS

DAMNIT!  Never thought this would be such a bitch   I could easily do a homemade strip for the ones towards the backend of the card, but there's that little fucker at the front end of the card, with no easy way to secure a heatsink.

Trying to decide if I should ditch the Enozotech coolers and get the Swiftech block.  FUCK!


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## cadaveca (Feb 8, 2010)

Considering I beleive your chances of killing the card without soemthing, is like 95%...save the heartache, and spend the bit of cash to do it right.


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## wakkierob (Feb 8, 2010)

*VRAM*is going to get hotter with more core speed so depending on the default temps will depend on how hot the total amount will b like what temp the display resets itself because if the vram get to hot the sys will either reset vid card or crash out so your never burn them enless ur volts are moded 2 high lol 

Shaders have a greater impact so higher core speed will have a bigger effect because these cards r shader core = the same rate as core so higher core higher shader. Nvidia cards have shader adjust so it can b set alot high with volt mods. A big Watercooler that covers the lot would give u much more advantage than open vram. If you get super fast fans for the rad than bodging the board it would have been alot better luckerly u have got away with what u have done and maybe save some money 4 a full size graphics watercooler.


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## Sasqui (Feb 8, 2010)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> Why are some of those sinks bent like that? As for the stock heat sink mb someone at XS. That's where I would start.



Oh - they are bent to make room for the W/C tubing and barbs.

Never joined XS... as a newbie, I doubt I'd get much response.



wakkierob said:


> *VRAM*is going to get hotter with more core speed so depending on the default temps will depend on how hot the total amount will b like what temp the display resets itself because if the vram get to hot the sys will either reset vid card or crash out so your never burn them enless ur volts are moded 2 high lol
> 
> Shaders have a greater impact so higher core speed will have a bigger effect because these cards r shader core = the same rate as core so higher core higher shader. Nvidia cards have shader adjust so it can b set alot high with volt mods. A big Watercooler that covers the lot would give u much more advantage than open vram. If you get super fast fans for the rad than bodging the board it would have been alot better luckerly u have got away with what u have done and maybe save some money 4 a full size graphics watercooler.



This is about the solid state voltage regulator chips.  The core and memory is all set.


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## Naekuh (Feb 9, 2010)

those VRM's get hot.

And they got HOT fast.

Seeing how its a 5870, i really recomend u getting full blocks for that card.
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=926

The stuff your doing is what you do when you dont have solutions available, or when the current solutions dont work.

But on a 400 dollar gpu... i wouldnt feel safe unless i had a real working block solution for it.


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## SystemViper (Feb 9, 2010)

Naekuh said:


> those VRM's get hot.
> 
> And they got HOT fast.
> 
> ...



yup, that is the card i want, very sweet!


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## jrobdog (Feb 9, 2010)

*Rather Easy fix*

Hey,
I have two watercooled hd 5850's right now, all you need to do is unscrew the stock heatsink, there's a plate that is used to cover all of the vrm's.  You just have to unscrew the shroud from it as well as take off the stock fan.  

I am also using 2x Swiftech MCW60-R2's as well, so I can confirm you can use the stock heatsink provided with the HD5850 or HD5870 to cool your VRM's and use a swiftech to cool the chip.

Easy as pie!!!






Remove all the screws and the shroud will come off, you will be left with a metal plate and will be able to screw this plate into the card as per usual.

The cooling with the stock plate is far superior to RAMSINKS/VRM Sinks, trust me I have tried both.


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## wakkierob (Feb 9, 2010)

jrobdog said:


> Hey,
> I have two watercooled hd 5850's right now, all you need to do is unscrew the stock heatsink, there's a plate that is used to cover all of the vrm's.  You just have to unscrew the shroud from it as well as take off the stock fan.
> 
> I am also using 2x Swiftech MCW60-R2's as well, so I can confirm you can use the stock heatsink provided with the HD5850 or HD5870 to cool your VRM's and use a swiftech to cool the chip.
> ...



*1 day i will buy one of these cards they must be monsters and if they get really good benchies then i will b really happy because there's nothing worse than a slow running game or waiting for streaming and video convertion lol. Would defo get watercooling after buying my NorthQ Siberian Tiger CPU cooler*


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