# PSU buying advice - Focus PX 750 vs Prime PX 750 vs Prime TX 750



## DRDOOM (Sep 13, 2020)

I'm looking to upgrade my 550W PSU to a 750W in preparation for the RTX 3080. I've narrowed my search down to these three Seasonic PSUs, the Focus PX 750 vs the Prime PX 750 vs TX 750

Simply put, which one should I go for? Budget is not a concern. Any pros and cons to each of the power supplies?


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## JustAnEngineer (Sep 13, 2020)

The Prime PX-750 has a larger fan than the Focus PX-750.  Both of those have the same dimensions.  The TX-750 is more efficient (80+ Ti vs. 80+ Pt).


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## dirtyferret (Sep 13, 2020)

All three are excellent and come with at least ten year warranties so Seasonics believes they will last you a good amount of time. In the real world you won't notice a difference between them.  Get the cheapest one and save your money for the RTX 3080.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 13, 2020)

I absolutely and totally agree it is essential to get a quality, efficient PSU. But I see no reason to waste money on Titanium certified PSUs. And unless they go on deep discounted sale, I see no reason for Platinum either. "Gold" certified is just fine.

Even if money is not an issue, that does not mean it makes sense to waste it. It would take years of heavy use for the couple points in better efficiency to result in energy cost savings that make up the initial costs of purchase for the higher rated PSUs - unless, as mentioned the merchant is offering deep discounted sales prices for the Platinum. Titanium is really just for bragging rights, IMO.

It is important to remember that higher 80 PLUS efficiency certifications do NOT indicate better quality power, or a better quality PSU. Those certs have nothing to do with regulation, ripple suppression, hold-up times, voltage tolerances, or build quality.

Yes, a larger fan is nice, but 120mm is by no means tiny - or a con. And for sure, it is still a quality fan that no doubt will be  extremely quiet to near silent the vast majority of the time. In a quality case, when your system and that graphics card are being taxed, I am sure if you hear any fan noise, it will be from the graphics card and/or case fans and not the PSU.

And while Seasonic is certainly a top brand to consider, they aren't the only quality PSU maker.

If you are locked on only those three, I agree with DF - get the cheapest and put the money you save elsewhere - like more RAM, nicer monitor, or a gift for your better half. If you don't have one, then a gift for your mom.


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## Kissamies (Sep 13, 2020)

My vote goes for Seasonic as well. I've had the older FX-series Focus+ Gold 750W for over an year and I have nothing to complain. I had a R9 290 CF before and worked totally without any problems. Also the 10 year warranty is a good thing to have.


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## xtreemchaos (Sep 13, 2020)

TX-750 more efficient but there all darn fine PSUs.


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## Selaya (Sep 13, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> [ ... ]
> Even if money is not an issue, that does not mean it makes sense to waste it. It would take years of heavy use for the couple points in better efficiency to result in energy cost savings that make up the initial costs of purchase for the higher rated PSUs - unless, as mentioned the merchant is offering deep discounted sales prices for the Platinum. Titanium is really just for bragging rights, IMO.
> 
> [ ... ]


(Correct me if I'm wrong, I guess?) Thermals. An uptick in efficiency from 90% to 95% should _half_ the amount of (waste) heat a PSU generates; in fact the Prime TX is so efficient Seasonic's offering a fanless version of it up to, uh I believe 600W? That is the main reason to buy a Titanium rated PSU (besides the aforementioned bragging rights ), imho. (ie, if you're running a thermally constrained build like, something fully passively cooled, or something.)


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## P4-630 (Sep 13, 2020)

You might want to go with a higher wattage PSU for future upgrades.


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## JustAnEngineer (Sep 13, 2020)

Above 750 watts, the Prime PSUs are deeper than equivalent Focus units.


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## juular (Sep 13, 2020)

If budget if not of concern then Prime TX, it's barely better than Prime PX but better nonetheless. If you rather want cheap but still very good option i'm pretty sure there should be other PSUs other than from Seasonic as Seasonic Focus isn't usually one of the best options neither value nor performance wise.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 13, 2020)

Selaya said:


> (Correct me if I'm wrong, I guess?) Thermals. An uptick in efficiency from 90% to 95% should _half_ the amount of (waste) heat a PSU generates;


Ummm, no. That would be almost logarithmic. Its not. Its linear.

How could it be 50% less heat with only 5% increase in efficiency? My calculous is a bit rusty but if your statement were true, you would be talking steel melting temperatures compared to your basic, generic 70% efficient PSU.

Remember, it is very rare for a properly sized PSU to be maxed out. This is because a properly sized PSU must assume the CPU, GPU, motherboard, all drives, all fans, and everything else the PSU is powering are all demanding maximum power at the exact same point in time. And the odds of that are slim at best and even if it occurs, it will only be for a second or two at a time.

I don't know where you are getting 5%.

Gold is 87% at 20% load. 90% at 50% load. 87% at 100% load.
Titanium is  92% at 20% load. 94% at 50% load. 90% at 100% load.

But lets use your 5% and assume 50% load on that 750W supply.

50% load on a 750W supply = 375 watts.

At 90% efficiency, that means the PSU must pull from the wall 417W (417 x .9 = 375.3).
At 95% efficiency, that means the PSU must pull from the wall 395W (395 x .95 = 375.25).

As you can see that 5% better efficiency means just 22W difference - 22W in the form of heat. Hardly 50%, right? And a 22W space heater sure wouldn't do much to keep closet warm on a cool day. Depending on the fuel and who you talk to, the heat from on candle is 40 to 70W! So even if the demand on that PSU was its full 750W capacity, you are still only talking 44W difference - actually less than that since the 80PLUS cert says 3% difference between Gold and Titanium at 100% load.

It would take a very long time for 22W to consume 1kWh (kilowatt hour) of energy. Remember, 1kWh is how much energy an appliance consuming 1000 watts continuously uses in 1 hour. The typical home computer is turned off or in standby mode most of each day. And when it use, most are consuming closer to their idle consumption rates than maximum consumption rates most of the time.

And the average cost per kWh hour in the US is about $0.14.

So my point stands. It would take years to make up the difference in costs between Gold and Titanium - unless you managed to score a fantastic deal.



Selaya said:


> in fact the Prime TX is so efficient Seasonic's offering a fanless version of it up to, uh I believe 600W?


But it is not just about efficiency. It is very much also dependent on the MASSIVE heatsinks inside, HUGE vents in the PSU housing, and taking advantage of the Law of Physics that says heat rises - as is up and out of the supply.


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## jboydgolfer (Sep 13, 2020)

ive been buying the Focus+ Golds for a handful of years now, theyre really nice, without requiring the silly prices like the platinum PSU's have.
im all for investing in a good power supply, but i refuse to spend extra for the super duper ultra silent unobtanium edition PSU's. Gold will suffice, & always has for me.

$85 for the Focus+ gold 750 was what i last paid

EDIT*
holy hell! is that what Seasonic PSU's are going for now?! $160+ Glad i bought when they were half that


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## DRDOOM (Sep 13, 2020)

juular said:


> If budget if not of concern then Prime TX, it's barely better than Prime PX but better nonetheless. If you rather want cheap but still very good option i'm pretty sure there should be other PSUs other than from Seasonic as Seasonic Focus isn't usually one of the best options neither value nor performance wise.


One of the reasons why I considered the Focus because it was rated the best 750W PSU to buy by Tom's Hardware








						Best Power Supplies 2023
					

These PSUs offer the best reliability, performance and protection for your system and its components.




					www.tomshardware.com
				




The Prime PSUs appear to receive universal praise however. So I presume from Seasonic, those would be the ones to go for? What other options do I have in the 750W range?

In terms of costs, the Prime TX is £199, Prime Px £179, and Focus PX £123.


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## Elisis (Sep 13, 2020)

RAY-90 said:


> I've narrowed my search down to these three Seasonic PSUs, the Focus PX 750 vs the Prime PX 750 vs TX 750


Are you willing to buy any PSUs other than these three? Because (depending on the country) it's likely that none of these will be worth it to you.


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## DRDOOM (Sep 13, 2020)

Elisis said:


> Are you willing to buy any PSUs other than these three?* Because (depending on the country) it's likely that none of these will be worth it to you.*


How so? What would you recommend instead?


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 13, 2020)

Not sure how the country would determine the "worth" but for sure, not all supplies are available in all markets. And also, some supplies cost more in different markets too. Perhaps that's what Elisis meant.


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## Elisis (Sep 14, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Not sure how the country would determine the "worth" but for sure, not all supplies are available in all markets. And also, some supplies cost more in different markets too. Perhaps that's what Elisis meant.


I was more going for the angle of there being better PSUs for the price depending on the market.


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## DRDOOM (Sep 14, 2020)

Elisis said:


> I was more going for the angle of there being better PSUs for the price depending on the market.


I'm from the UK. Which PSUs are better for the price? 

Reading Amazon/Newegg reviews for some of the cheaper PSUs scare the hell out of me, particularly as some have reported their new PSUs destroying their existing components (eg motherboard, hard drive) upon insertion!

I do not mind paying more for absolute quality.


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## JustAnEngineer (Sep 14, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Ummm, no.
> How could it be 50% less heat with only 5% increase in efficiency? My calculus is a bit rusty but if your statement were true, you would be talking steel melting temperatures compared to your basic, generic 70% efficient PSU.


It's just multiplication, division, addition and subtraction in this case.

If PSU A is 94% efficient between 20% and 90% of maximum capacity, and PSU B is 94% efficient in that range and PSU C is 75% efficient, we can calculate their *inefficiencies* pretty easily.

PSU A, providing 600 watts of  power inside your PC to your very hungry graphics card(s) and CPU is pulling 600 watts ÷ 0.94 = 638.3 watts from the wall.  Its inefficiency (the amount of input power being turned into heat) is 638.3 - 600 = 38.3 watts.  We can also get that number by multiplying 600 watts x (1.00-0.94)÷0.94
PSU B has 66.7 watts of inefficiency.
PSU C has 200 watts of inefficiency.
That's a pretty significant difference, even if it is less than your high-end Comet Lake and Ampere are using.


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## Caring1 (Sep 14, 2020)

RAY-90 said:


> I'm from the UK. Which PSUs are better for the price?
> 
> Reading Amazon/Newegg reviews for some of the cheaper PSUs scare the hell out of me, particularly as some have reported their new PSUs destroying their existing components (eg motherboard, hard drive) upon insertion!
> 
> I do not mind paying more for absolute quality.


As long as it is a known name brand and gold rated it should be fine.
Generally there are more people writing reviews that have a complaint, happy campers  just get on with life.


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## DRDOOM (Sep 14, 2020)

Based on reviews it appears there is very little to set apart the Prime series PSUs, besides the efficiency improvements.

I've found the Prime GX 750 for £150 (£50 cheaper than the TX 750), so I think I might bite the bullet and order.

Good for Gold, or just go for the Titanium?


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## Selaya (Sep 14, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Ummm, no. That would be almost logarithmic. Its not. Its linear.
> 
> How could it be 50% less heat with only 5% increase in efficiency? My calculous is a bit rusty but if your statement were true, you would be talking steel melting temperatures compared to your basic, generic 70% efficient PSU.
> 
> ...


Example numbers. However, the delta between 417-375=42 and 395-375=20 is basically 100%, or double/half - ie, the 90% efficient PSU generates 42W of heat, while the 95% generates 20W - that making sense yet?



> [ ... ]
> 
> It would take a very long time for 22W to consume 1kWh (kilowatt hour) of energy. Remember, 1kWh is how much energy an appliance consuming 1000 watts continuously uses in 1 hour. The typical home computer is turned off or in standby mode most of each day. And when it use, most are consuming closer to their idle consumption rates than maximum consumption rates most of the time.
> 
> ...


100% agreed. The power consumption shouldn't be the reason you'd be wanting a Titanium PSU assuming current price deltas between Gold, Platinum and TItanium.


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## juular (Sep 14, 2020)

RAY-90 said:


> I'm from the UK. Which PSUs are better for the price?



Bitfenix Whisper M, Super Flower Leadex III, Corsair RM-x, Fractal Design ION+.


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## Athlonite (Sep 14, 2020)

RAY-90 said:


> One of the reasons why I considered the Focus because it was rated the best 750W PSU to buy by Tom's Hardware
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Take the Focus PX as you like me use 240V if your in England the actual 80+ rating goes up a notch (well almost) vs those using 120V in the likes of the U.S.


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## Elisis (Sep 14, 2020)

Athlonite said:


> if your in England the actual 80+ rating goes up a notch


Why would you care about this? It's not as if efficiency matters to, well, any consumer.


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## Athlonite (Sep 14, 2020)

Elisis said:


> Why would you care about this? It's not as if efficiency matters to, well, any consumer.



When I'm paying the bills every little counts and at $0.37 per KWh I intend to not to use as much as I can while still doing everything I want to on my PC


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## Naito (Sep 14, 2020)

Elisis said:


> Why would you care about this? It's not as if efficiency matters to, well, any consumer.



Those who pay for electricity? Furthermore, a more efficient PSU generates less heat and less noise as a result.

I have the equivalent to the Prime PX-750. Picked over the titanium range as the 230/240v grid means there is much less difference in efficiency versus a platinum rated model. At the end of the day, I think even a gold rating is enough, just splurged a bit more.


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## R-T-B (Sep 14, 2020)

Athlonite said:


> Take the Focus PX as you like me use 240V if your in England the actual 80+ rating goes up a notch (well almost) vs those using 120V in the likes of the U.S.



When I was doing mining reviews, I tested my Seasonic Prime Titanium at 240V vs 120V for efficiency comparisons.  It wasn't really anything to write home about, it was under 1% delta most of the time.

Still I do acknowledge every little bit helps.


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## Assimilator (Sep 14, 2020)

Buy whichever one makes the most sense for your wallet. All of them are top-tier PSUs with excellent warranties, the more expensive ones are more efficient but probably not to a degree you'd notice. I have a Corsair RM750x which is only Gold and the fan doesn't spin most of the time because the unit's so efficient.


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## DRDOOM (Sep 14, 2020)

juular said:


> Bitfenix Whisper M, Super Flower Leadex III, Corsair RM-x, Fractal Design ION+.


Are any of these superior to the Prime GX 750?


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## Assimilator (Sep 14, 2020)

RAY-90 said:


> Are any of these superior to the Prime GX 750?



They're far less expensive and slightly lower quality/performance, but not that it will likely matter.


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## phill (Sep 14, 2020)

I've just bought a Focus GX 650w unit, think it's pretty decent and feeds my Xeon and 1080 Ti and all the water cooling and fans without any issues at all.  Any Seasonic unit is going to be decent and I wouldn't worry too much about which one you went for.  As long as its Gold rated, you've nothing much to worry about.  For me personally, I tend to go for fully modular as well but that's just a personal preference.  Platinum or Titanium units are ok, but they are hugely priced in comparison to a Gold unit, which won't really save you as much as the extra cost for the PSU.  Unless you have a bargain on those, I'd personally not bother 

What PSU do you currently have?  You mention it's a 550w but not the actual model that I could see quickly.  If you have a no name (as example) then I'd consider changing it, but if its a decent quality unit, why would you change it?  I would have thought that a 550w might be a little close to the mark but otherwise it should be fine  

I'd wait for the reviews to come out before thinking "I need to spend cash" just yet


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## Fry178 (Sep 14, 2020)

@Bill_Bright/RAY_90
one difference being that some units had issues with fan sound profile/turning noisy quickly, and it wasnt connected to model/fan size,
so i decided to go with almost identical (quality) EVGA G+, where all fans are quiet.
its voltages are even a bit closer to norm/less fluctuating than my last (P760) Seasonic (not that it was crap).

The higher number the newer the unit, but whatever Gx series you can get that has 10y warranty will be fine,
of course if a Px/Tx is on sale for similar price you could go with that.


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## Assimilator (Sep 14, 2020)

Pretty much all the Gold and higher units offer at least a 10 year warranty nowadays, so that's not a concern.


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## DRDOOM (Sep 14, 2020)

juular said:


> Bitfenix Whisper M, Super Flower Leadex III, Corsair RM-x, Fractal Design ION+.


What is considered the best of the bunch here?

I was initially going to go for the PRIME GX 750 for £150 but it appears the Leadex III has very good reviews and is only £99.

Warranty for the Seasonic is 12 years Vs 7 years for the Leadex but I don't know if that matters.


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## Fry178 (Sep 14, 2020)

@RAY-90
most reviews that tested both the evgas usually got a tick better results than the seasonics.
G1

@Assimilator
not sure when you checked that the last time, but going thru evgas gold units, at least 30-40% are not (3/5/7y) and thats just one brand..


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## Assimilator (Sep 14, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> @Assimilator
> not sure when you checked that the last time, but going thru evgas gold units, at least 30-40% are not (3/5/7y) and thats just one brand..



Hence why I said "pretty much", not "all".


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## juular (Sep 14, 2020)

RAY-90 said:


> Are any of these superior to the Prime GX 750?


Not really, they're all on par overall. I mean, you'll be able to find some pros and cons of each unit if you'll read reviews but overall they're pretty much on the same level. All should be good performance and quality, quiet units (with probably only Fractal Design being juust a bit lower than others performance wise), just get cheapest one with warranty length you're comfortable with.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 14, 2020)

JustAnEngineer said:


> It's just multiplication, division, addition and subtraction in this case.
> 
> PSU B has 66.7 watts of inefficiency.
> PSU C has 200 watts of inefficiency.
> That's a pretty significant difference


Yes, but this side discussion is not about 75% efficient PSUs. It is about cost differences (purchase vs. operational costs) between a 90% efficient PSU and a 93-94% efficient PSU. I would think almost all members and regulars of this site already know to get 80PLUS certified (at least Bronze) PSUs and most guests and new readers will quickly learn to. 


Selaya said:


> Example numbers. However, the delta between 417-375=42 and 395-375=20 is basically 100%, or double/half - ie, the 90% efficient PSU generates 42W of heat, while the 95% generates 20W - that making sense yet?


Okay, I see you point but you are talking totally different scales here. The purchase costs is in dollars and the operational costs are in cents. That's a 100 to 1 ratio. 

It would take 45.5 hours at a constant load for that 22W difference to consume 1kWh of energy. The loads computers put on power supplies are constantly varying and sitting closer to idle demands most of the time. If you have an UPS with a status display, or a Kill-O-Watt meter, you can see how little most computers pull most of the time. Most people would be surprised. 

While I type this, as an example (specs in System Specs), my UPS is reporting just 95W is being used - and that's with two 24" monitors, my wireless router, modem, and a switch too. So the difference between a Gold and Titanium would be less than 4W. 

And again, 1kWh of energy costs about 14 cents. 



Selaya said:


> 100% agreed. The power consumption shouldn't be the reason you'd be wanting a Titanium PSU assuming current price deltas between Gold, Platinum and TItanium.


 Right! I think we are on the same page here. 



Elisis said:


> Why would you care about this? It's not as if efficiency matters to, well, any consumer.


Huh? It sure should matter and I bet it does to most. 2 or 3 percentage points should not be a deciding factor (unless everything else is equal) but even if you are not paying the bills (and by your comment, I assume you aren't) you should still want an 80 PLUS certified PSU. 

Why? It is important to note that PSUs are inherently inefficient electronics devices. Not only that, they tend to have a "bell" shaped efficiency curve, meaning they only achieve maximum efficiency at one load point, then drop drastically on either side from there. So if a basic, cheap, non 80PLUS compliant PSU is used (using a 400W just to illustrate) it likely tops out at 70% efficient at around 60% load (~240W). Either side of that and efficiency may drop to 60% or even less. That is a lot of wasted energy that goes to heat up the computer room (wasting more energy if that room is being air conditioned). 

One of the major advantages to 80PLUS certifications is the relatively "flat" efficiency curve. It is not "bell" shaped. That is the basic "white" 80 PLUS certification requires that PSU to maintain at least 80% efficiency at 20, 50 and 100% loads. That's a good thing. 

If nothing else, buying an efficient PSU is simply better for the environment and I would hope that everyone has at least a little "tree hugger" in them - for our children's and grandchildren's sake. 


Fry178 said:


> @Bill_Bright/RAY_90
> one difference being that some units had issues with fan sound


Excellent point. Have I mentioned that I hate fan noise? Besides the fact better PSUs use higher quality fans, more efficient PSUs generate less heat. This means the fans don't need to spin as fast, making less noise. And many PSUs are designed to keep the fan off completely until some preset thermal threshold is crossed. So, with a properly sized PSU, many can support typing in forums, surfing the Internet, view YouTube and never spin up the fan!


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## Assimilator (Sep 14, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Excellent point. Have I mentioned that I hate fan noise? Besides the fact better PSUs use higher quality fans, more efficient PSUs generate less heat. This means the fans don't need to spin as fast, making less noise. And many PSUs are designed to keep the fan off completely until some preset thermal threshold is crossed. So, with a properly sized PSU, many can support typing in forums, surfing the Internet, view YouTube and never spin up the fan!



Auto fan-off should be a feature on *all* PSUs, not just high-end ones. In most PCs, even those used for gaming, the amount of time that the PSU is maximally stressed is miniscule compared to the time it effectively spends at idle. So much energy, and noise, could be saved if every PSU included this feature.


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## Fry178 (Sep 14, 2020)

@Bill_Bright
the problem is, not everyone has a 1050ti nor lives in the US where power/gas/tax is cheap
how about my rig consuming about 120w on idle (x3700 + 2080S + 43in tv), and thats only because everything is limited (boost clock) and screen very dim.
and under load its 300 w avg and tops out at 500 ish w.

what about countries where power is not as cheap?
what when its 25-50 cents/h? now add another 20% vat...

and i havent even counted in the difference under load, when the unit gets warm,reducing efficiency.
not even talking about the 7-10y it will be in use.

i would rather spend the money on higher efficiency, than an over sized psu..


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## Assimilator (Sep 14, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> @Bill_Bright
> the problem is, not everyone has a 1050ti nor lives in the US where power/gas/tax is cheap
> how about my rig consuming about 120w on idle (x3700 + 2080S + 43in tv), and thats only because everything is limited (boost clock) and screen very dim.
> and under load its 300 w avg and tops out at 500 ish w.
> ...



Bill isn't arguing that you shouldn't buy a high-efficiency PSU.

He is arguing that once you get to at least 80 Plus White/standard efficiency, the returns are very much diminishing, particularly compared to the costs - in which he is correct. Although, in terms of cost/benefit, Gold-rated units are pretty much the sweet spot nowadays.

The higher capacity vs higher efficiency argument is also quite valid, since PSUs are most efficient at 50% load: so a 300W PSU run at 100% will not be as efficient as a 600W model run at 50%, assuming both have the same efficiency rating. Further, running the PSU at a middling versus higher load, will put less stress on the components, so it will last longer.

Personally I'd like to see a rebalancing of the 80 Plus scale every year, so that older PSUs are continually falling off the end and new efficiency levels are added for manufacturers to aspire to - especially since most modern PSUs (even low-end units) can easily hit 80% efficiency.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 14, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Auto fan-off should be a feature on *all* PSUs, not just high-end ones.


Not sure about that - but it is a nice feature. At the very least, all PSUs should have a quality fan, as big as will possibly fit in the case. And for sure, all PSU fans should have variable speeds, controlled by heat - or rather the cooling needed. Quality, large fans are almost completely silent when spinning at low RPMs. 


> So much energy, and noise, could be saved if every PSU included this feature.


Well, a typical 140mm fan consumes 6W or less and that is at maximum RPM. So I don't believe this feature will save much in energy. But noise? Yes. But that too depends on the case as well as the fan noise from other fans, and ambient noise too.



Assimilator said:


> In most PCs, even those used for gaming, the amount of time that the PSU is maximally stressed is miniscule


Agreed. 


Fry178 said:


> i would rather spend the money on higher efficiency, than an over sized psu..


I have never, as in NEVER EVER suggested buying an over-sized PSU. If you read back through my posts, I have repeatedly said "properly" sized. Technically, when it comes to optimizing efficiency, that would mean the average demand should sit around the PSU's mid capacity point as that is where the 80PLUS cert dictates the best efficiency. 

I do believe buying a PSU that provides a small amount of headroom to allow for an extra hard drive or more RAM in a year or two. But never buying way more power than you need. 



Fry178 said:


> what about countries where power is not as cheap?





Assimilator said:


> He is arguing that once you get to at least 80 Plus White/standard efficiency, the returns are very much diminishing, particularly compared to the costs - in which he is correct. Although, in terms of cost/benefit, Gold-rated units are pretty much the sweet spot nowadays.


My argument still applies. I absolutely believe we all should be buying efficient PSUs. But not "White/standard" 80 PLUS. IMO, "Gold" certification is, as noted, the sweet spot. Again, my argument is about spending (or rather "not" spending) extra money on Platinum or Titanium when Gold is just fine as that already requires 90% efficiency at 50% load. Platinum is just 2% better and Titanium only 4%. With a 300W demand, that would only be 6 and 12W difference from the Gold supply. But again, computer components rarely, during any 24 hour period demand that much, and when they do, it is rarely for very long. So it would take years to make up the added cost of Platinum and Titanium over the Gold supply. 

If the higher certified supplies ensured they provided better regulation, better ripple suppression, tighter voltage tolerances, quieter operation and a longer life expectancy too, then the added costs might be worth it. But none of those better specs are included.

And of course, your 42 inch TV you are using as your monitor is not being powered by the computer's power supply.


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## Fry178 (Sep 14, 2020)

@Bill_Bright
never said you did (but the way i wrote it seems like it.)

sure, gold is best for most users (80%), but not always, and for everyone,
and there are enough exceptions to the rule, that i like to bring it up.

i dont use the pc for anything but gaming (maybe 10 min surfing before/after, when waiting on team to get on),
so my load is at least 190w or higher, and im not running an 8C cpu + 2080S to play 30y text based mystery games@360p .
so outside menu/lobby etc, my load is actually 300-400, and even 500-550w when running things like the latest AAA @2160p,
and in a country with higher energy cost/taxes, it can be so close, that it does warrant the added cost.
especially when considering sale (i got my first plat 650w SS from MC for less than a gold rated unit from other brands),
or looking at open box/used units from amazon or microcenter.

lol, you got me there. not sure why i listed the moni for psu consumption.
guess i shouldnt answer tech stuff while wasted


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## djisas (Sep 14, 2020)

I bought a prime 750GX recently and I'm not very satisfied, it introduced a ton of white noise into my audio system, had it with onboard sound device and have it with the sound card...


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 14, 2020)

Fry178 said:


> sure, gold is best for most users (80%)


You really still seem confused here. It is not 80%!

Throughout this thread, me and others have many times pointed out how Gold means 90% efficiency at 50% load. Platinum just 2% better at 92% and Titanium at 94%. These are these are with 115VAC inputs. That's why I corrected Assimilator and noted I prefer "Gold" and not White/standard (which is only 80%). 

So even if you are demanding 500w, the difference between Gold and Titanium would be a mere 20W. With Ft Washington, MD energy costing just 13.23¢ per kWh, you are still talking many years before you got your money back. 

Do the math. Or easier yet, use this Energy Cost Calculator. If you plug in 20 watts, 8 hours per day and your energy costs of $.1323, you can see that amounts to a whopping $.64 savings per month! And that is assuming your computer is pulling 500W continuously for those 8 hours each and every day - which ain't happening! 

If you are unsure of the requirements, see this Plug Load Solutions link. They administer the 80 PLUS Certification program. Then hover your mouse over the different 80 PLUS logos and you will see a little popup with the various requirements. 



> i got my first plat 650w SS from MC for less than a gold rated unit from other brands),


From other brands? That's kinda cheating the argument here. Pretty sure most of are assuming same or at least very comparable/competitive brands. At least I sure am.


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## JustAnEngineer (Sep 15, 2020)

Where I'm located, for more than half of the year, adding an extra 22 watts of waste heat to my room means spending another 2 watts on air conditioning, too.

My strategy is to wait for Newegg, Amazon or B&H to put the SeaSonic Platinum units that I like on sale.  Then I buy a new spare when it's cheap that I'll put on the shelf in case I need it for a new build or to replace a failed lesser brand PSU in a family member's PC.  I paid $129 (delivered) for the Focus PX-850 that I'm using in my new build.  The SS-660XP2 before that cost $92.


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## Fry178 (Sep 15, 2020)

@Bill_Bright
yeah, meant gold/90%
why are you assuming its for my location?
i plan on moving out the country at some point, and by that time i expect the cost to be around 35-40 cents/kw where i move,
and i dont plan swapping (my) psu anymore until it dies.

once i picked a (gold) unit and lets say its sold out, but if i can get the plat/titanium version for same or less (sale/coupon/open box etc),
i will take those over the gold unit from a different brand.


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 15, 2020)

JustAnEngineer said:


> Where I'm located, for more than half of the year, adding an extra 22 watts of waste heat to my room means spending another 2 watts on air conditioning, too.


 No it doesn't. 

This has turned into a silly nit-picky argument. This will be my last post on this subject. 

As stated multiple times already, that 22W is based on the PSU being under a continuous load of many 100s of watts. *Computers don't work that way! *Other electronics certainly do. Monitors and TVs, for example, have fairly constant demands. But NOT computers! 

The load a computer imposes on its PSU is not only constantly varying, but it is sitting closer to its idle demand a greater percentage of the time. Don't believe me? Then get a "good" UPS with AVR that has a status display, or get a kill-a-watt meter and monitor your own usage. I guarantee, unless you are "folding" 24/7/365 looking for a cure for cancer, your power demand the vast majority of the time is much less than you think! 

Not only that, even with COVID-19 and being confined to homes, users are NOT sitting in front of their computers 24 hours per day. Not 12 hours, not 8, not even 6 hours. And for sure, they are *NOT*  maxing out the power consumption of their CPUs AND GPUs (AND drives AND RAM AND motherboards too) continuously and simultaneously during their computing sessions either. 

Even the most extreme, power demanding games rarely demand maximum power from the components and when they do, it is even more rare they would demand that power from both the CPU and GPU at the same time. But when those demands do occur, they tend to be for short bursts, not continuously. 

What that means is that 22W is an extreme and exceptional number that comes into play a few scant minutes per day total! Not hours! The realistic value for the difference between Gold and Titanium is more likely less than what a child's small nightlight consumes (3 - 7W) - but for much fewer hours each day (not all night long). 

So it does not matter if power where you live cost $.14 per kWh or $.50 per kWh, we are still talking pennies per month - not dollars per day. 

Now I don't care how you spend your money. And for sure, if I could get, for example, a 650W Seasonic or EVGA Platinum or Titanium for the same price of an equivalent quality 650W Seasonic or EVGA Gold, I would jump on that in a heartbeat. But PLEASE, stop trying to justify spending more on a Platinum or Titanium by rationalizing that the better efficiency ratings will save you more in the long run. With very few anecdotal exceptions, that just isn't reality.


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## DRDOOM (Sep 15, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> No it doesn't.
> 
> This has turned into a silly nit-picky argument. This will be my last post on this subject.
> 
> ...


So in reality, it makes very little difference between gold, platinum, and titanium power supplies?


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## dirtyferret (Sep 15, 2020)

you can figure out the cost savings with the linked calculator going from 80+ to titanium and everything in between. For me, going from gold to titanium would save me less then $1.50 per year.


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## londiste (Sep 15, 2020)

Cost savings isn't the right argument and it has been said a number of times already. There is a pretty sizeable difference in excess heat and as a result, noise. To cool down an additional 22W (example from a few posts up) in a PSU-sized and shaped box takes some doing.

22W is not an exceptional number. 80+ Gold is 92%, 80+ Titanium is 96% at their peak. At around 400W usage (which is a mid-high range gaming machine) it is 32W vs 16W.


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## John Naylor (Sep 15, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Ummm, no. That would be almost logarithmic. Its not. Its linear.
> 
> How could it be 50% less heat with only 5% increase in efficiency? My calculous is a bit rusty but if your statement were true, you would be talking steel melting temperatures compared to your basic, generic 70% efficient PS
> 
> ...



No calculus needed.   Just 5th grade math.    There was no mention of watts used, the poster is 100% correct.  The poster was saying you could halg the heat created in your system, not ytheirpower bil.    Using your own example. is about waste heat being halved. In your own example,

375 / 0 .95 = 394.7368 from wall 19.737 wasted as heat
375 / 0 .90 = 416.667 from wall 41.667 wasted as heat

41.667 / 19.737 = about twice the wasted heat



Bill_Bright said:


> It would take years to make up the difference in costs between Gold and Titanium - unless you managed to score a fantastic deal.



Not arguing the point but well we also have to keep in mind we keep the the PSU for years.   Where you live is also a factor.   In 2018, New York averaged $0.193 but in the NYC and suburban area it was over 24 cents.  In Greenport, Long Island (I ran that utility for 8 years) it was 11 cents ... in certain other areas it was 5.5 cents.  Louisiana average was 9,37 cents ... Hawaii 32.67.  In the 29 years we have been building PCs, we have often bought larger PSUs of the same brand / model because they were cheaper (efficiency improvement was also nice as systems operated closer to best efficiency point.  We have also in more recent years, recommended that our user consider an upgrade when the 4 year cost of ownership is actually cheaper.    The jump to Titanium, at the pinnacle, is always of course a big jump like the 2nd tier GFX card to the top tier. but jumping 2 steps (Bronze to Gold / Silver to Platinum) is not at all that uncommon.

Of course right now for whatever reason PSU and storage proces are sky high making it a poor time to use for an example.




jboydgolfer said:


> ive been buying the Focus+ Golds for a handful of years now, theyre really nice, without requiring the silly prices like the platinum PSU's have.
> im all for investing in a good power supply, but i refuse to spend extra for the super duper ultra silent unobtanium edition PSU's. Gold will suffice, & always has for me.
> 
> $85 for the Focus+ gold 750 was what i last paid
> ...



Yeah I just told my son to wait ... prices in some sectors are too high

However ....

Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 550 = $139.94





						SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply
					






					pcpartpicker.com
				




Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 550 = $125.95





						SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Platinum 550 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply
					






					pcpartpicker.com
				




The cost savings is of curse much bigger from Bronze to Gold than Gold to Titanium ... but moving up a grade can often pay off.  We use a spreadsheet tpo perform these anaylyses.   Each analysis is tied to utility cost, usage hours and specific load which generalizations are unable to account for


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## Bill_Bright (Sep 15, 2020)

RAY-90 said:


> So in reality, it makes very little difference between gold, platinum, and titanium power supplies?


I said my last post will be my last, this time I mean it.

There are many variables and exceptions that should be factored in on a case by case basis. But "in general", you are right. With all else being equal, "it makes very little difference". In fact, the differences are so tiny, that for most users, they are negligible and insignificant. In fact, for most users, Gold is the more cost efficient way to go. But for a few, Platinum or Titanium may be worth it. But I would encourage them to do the math first. And most importantly, be realistic with the numbers they use when doing that math. Including how long they realistically plan on keeping that computer. Most computers are retired (or upgraded) long before they die - and that is much in part because new generation hardware is required to support the latest generations of programs and communications protocols. Or, folks just want something new and faster!



John Naylor said:


> No calculus needed. Just 5th grade math. There was no mention of watts used, the poster is 100% correct.


 Watts used was mentioned over and over again. For example, I repeatedly said from idle demands to maximum load. You even used watts mentioned from my examples. 


John Naylor said:


> Not arguing the point but well we also have to keep in mind we keep the the PSU for years.


 Just saying "years" is not helpful. 3 years is years. So is 5. The fact is, when it comes to computer components, PSUs fail more often that other components. Or they need to be upgraded to support a bigger GPU, etc. And again, people, on average, replace their computers long before they die.


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## jboydgolfer (Sep 15, 2020)

John Naylor said:


> Yeah I just told my son to wait ... prices in some sectors are too high
> 
> However ....
> 
> Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 550 = $139.94



the Focus + Gold 750 was  MSRP (or were a year or so back) at $89.99 or there about. 
maybe its corona borealis, or just market fluctuation, but theyve climbed 100% in under 2 years, last time something like this happened was when mining made GPU's like unicorns


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## Fry178 (Sep 15, 2020)

@RAY-90 
Yes, so get what is the better unit/lower price.
i usually look at a couple of recommended/top review units from a few websites like tpu and guru3d,
then pick the ones fitting power features (semi/fully modular), and do a more detailed lookup,
as the rating doesnt equal build quality.

e.g. there are great bronze units out their matching "numbers" etc of another brands next higher tier (or even gold rating),
but their are also plat (less titanium) units that i would never touch, and rather get a gold rated one.

havent looked at it for a while, so cant tell if its content is up to date..
psu review data base


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## DRDOOM (Sep 15, 2020)

londiste said:


> Cost savings isn't the right argument and it has been said a number of times already. There is a pretty sizeable difference in excess heat and as a result, noise. To cool down an additional 22W (example from a few posts up) in a PSU-sized and shaped box takes some doing.
> 
> 22W is not an exceptional number. 80+ Gold is 92%, 80+ Titanium is 96% at their peak. At around 400W usage (which is a mid-high range gaming machine) it is 32W vs 16W.


Are these differences in excess heat appreciated by the general user?

I also have another silly question but if you were to compare an 850W PSU and 650W, would the former run hotter and cost more to run, despite the same pc components?


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## jboydgolfer (Sep 15, 2020)

RAY-90 said:


> I also have another silly question but if you were to compare an 850W PSU and 650W, would the former run hotter and cost more to run, despite the same pc components?


the wattage rating isnt affecting wattage used in any real sense (aside from extremes or full load). an 850W PSU can simply handle more wattage, it doesnt necessarily use more while running an identical load to a 650W model of the same type.

so if you have 2 identical systems, running identical loads, 1 with a 650W PSU & 1 with a 850W PSU , and if they are both running minesweeper, or firefox, the usage should be nearly identical for both PSU's


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## juular (Sep 15, 2020)

RAY-90 said:


> So in reality, it makes very little difference between gold, platinum, and titanium power supplies?


In this case, with Seasonic Prime Titanium vs Platinum and even vs Gold there is indeed very little difference because other than for the components that make up for better efficiency (MOSFETs and capacitors mainly), they're pretty much identical.
However if you're talking about different PSU there may be noticeable difference in performance or quality _but efficiency is secondary to that_, i.e you shouldn't base your PSU choice on efficiency badge, period.


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## DRDOOM (Sep 15, 2020)

jboydgolfer said:


> the wattage rating isnt affecting wattage used in any real sense (aside from extremes or full load). an 850W PSU can simply handle more wattage, it doesnt necessarily use more while running an identical load to a 650W model of the same type.
> 
> so if you have 2 identical systems, running identical loads, 1 with a 650W PSU & 1 with a 850W PSU , and if they are both running minesweeper, or firefox, the usage should be nearly identical for both PSU's


Does this include your yearly electric bills, efficiency and wasted heat (assuming all components including power supply itself are the same, except the total wattage)?


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## John Naylor (Sep 15, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Watts used was mentioned over and over again. For example, I repeatedly said from idle demands to maximum load. You even used watts mentioned from my examples.



1.    Bill, .... it is expected that when you quote a specific post and put your reply underneath that, that the comment refer to the quoted post and not something posted somewhere else.  It was the 7th post ... how is posts 8 onward in any way relevant ?

My intent was to correct a misstatement, not nitpick ... but ... this doesn't fly  .... "watts used" was not mentioned.... not even once prior to your post.  There was mention of fans, warrantees, etc.... but no mention at all of power consumption .... the word "watt" only appears once before your post (in relation to PSU rating not consumption ).  here's what you quoted:   



> Correct me if I'm wrong, I guess?) Thermals. An uptick in efficiency from 90% to 95% *should half the amount of (waste) heat a PSU generates*;



You corrected the poster,.... the poster was not wrong.   The subsequent responses don't change that.



> Just saying "years" is not helpful. 3 years is years. So is 5. The fact is, when it comes to computer components, PSUs fail more often that other components. Or they need to be upgraded to support a bigger GPU, etc. And again, people, on average, replace their computers long before they die.



I'm not just  "saying" years, this is standard economic practice.   We consult to developers, municipalities and other entities that build things.  We make recommendations based upon TCO or total cost of ownership.  A municipality wants to repave a section of road.   We might advise them that  they have 2 options:

a)  $80,000 using a pavement design with an anticipated life of 6 years
b)  $96,000 using a pavement design  with an anticipated life of 8 years

Factoring in the cost of borrowing when all is said and done, the monthly payments are not the issue ... the total cost of ownership is and its cheaper for the muncipality to pave the road on an 8 year cycle.... it also reduces the impact on the community as is 3 repavings in 24 years instead of 4.

Sound economic  judgement depends on TCO.  With a PC, this includes, how long they intend to keep it ... including if user will use same case / PSU in an upgrade or pass it on to someone else.  The build Im typing from is 7 years old ... PSU has a 12 year warranty.   Have 6 boxes here.... system components vary from 7 years to 6 months (in case upgrade)  ... but every case and PSU is at least 4 years old.  The oldest is Gold Antec CP-850 I bought in 2009.   We been building PCs for 29 years .... most of our users average 3-5 years of usage ... even when they upgrade, the old PC gets handed down to a family member of friend.  Monthly cost of electricity is not a purchase related decision.

With a PSU we use information provided by the user  on frequency of usage (Joe Blow games 30 hours a week), how long they keep their PSUs and cost of electricity.  In the attached example.....

Total Estimated Cost of Ownership Including PSU and electricity costs are $1,220.83 w/ Seasonic 750 Watt Gold
Total Estimated Cost of Ownership Including PSU and electricity costs are $1,216.92 w/ Seasonic 750 Watt Platinum

Payback period for the extra $20 investment is 3.35 years; $4 not really a major impact on anyone's life, but neither is 420.   But in Hawaii,  it grows to $35  ... in parts of Europe even more.


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## jboydgolfer (Sep 15, 2020)

RAY-90 said:


> Does this include efficiency and wasted heat (assuming all components including power supply itself are the same, except the total wattage)?



there should be no noticeable differences.


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## John Naylor (Sep 15, 2020)

jboydgolfer said:


> the wattage rating isnt affecting wattage used in any real sense (aside from extremes or full load). an 850W PSU can simply handle more wattage, it doesnt necessarily use more while running an identical load to a 650W model of the same type.
> 
> so if you have 2 identical systems, running identical loads, 1 with a 650W PSU & 1 with a 850W PSU , and if they are both running minesweeper, or firefox, the usage should be nearly identical for both PSU's



Agreed.   There is a difference.,,, but as you said, it's small and whether it's significant is a question that each users opinion will vary on.  Lets assume a 500 watt load.

1.  Power used:
At 77% load, a Gold 650 watt PSU will be operating at 77% load or about 88.38% efficiency, pulling 565.74 watts from the wall
At 59% load, a Gold 850  watt PSU will be operating at 59% load or about 89.46% efficiency, pulling 558.91 watts from the wall

No big deal of course, it pulls only 7 more watts and would cost me about $10 over 4 years.... no big whoop.

2.    Heat - There's the associated extra heat ... again not a big whoop at 7 watts

3.    Performance - I have chosen a bad example at 500 watts for this one, but the close your load get to the power rating, there are several performance impacts.  For this part let's assume we 600 watts or so.:
a)  In many instances, the closer you get to a power rating, the impact on voltage stability increases a bit
b)  In many instances, the closer you get to a power rating, the impact on electrical noise increases a bit
c)  The closer you get to a power rating, the impact on fan speed and the associated sound noise increases.

For most, the 1st two won't be significant unless they extreme ovelcockers ...but I have a real bugaboo about noise, if i can tell system is on with my eyes closed, I'm unhappy.

... on my build I calculated about a 775 watt load, a 850 was a bit to close so I was thinking a 1050 ... but the 1250 was cheaper so i grabbed that at the time ... the PSU fan has never urned on.  POTOH hand my son was looking for an EVGA G2 850 and bought the 1000 ... for the get go ... it was the only thing in his system that you could hear and he had 2 cooler (later 2 fan OLC type AIO) fans and 7 case  fans.  It failed during warranty and the replacement was just as bad.  He replaced it with a Seasonic Focus Gold and no longer an issue.


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## JustAnEngineer (Sep 15, 2020)

I use my PCs for gaming.  They pull plenty of continuous power while I'm doing that.  Don't assume that your individual use case and cost basis matches everyone else's.

Other than efficiency itself being a good goal, I like that my power supply generates less heat and therefore doesn't generate as much noise for cooling.


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## juular (Sep 16, 2020)

JustAnEngineer said:


> I like that my power supply generates less heat and therefore doesn't generate as much noise for cooling.


And that, again, doesn't depend on the efficiency of the PSU directly but rather on the design of the PSU and it's fan curve. Two PSUs with difference efficiency certificates can have the very same fan curve and conversely, two PSUs with the same efficiency or even using the same platform can have drastically different acoustic profiles.


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