# Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs



## Retrorockit (Aug 9, 2017)

Myself and a few others have used Throttlestop software and unlocked CPUs to overclock OEM locked BIOS PCs.
 Throttlestop was designed for underclocking, and undevolting laptop computers to extend battery life. It also allows full control of Voltage and multiplier on unlocked CPUs. There is a large TS Laptop thread, but I thought I'd make a separate discussion for PC owners so the information would be easier to find. TS overclocking is a work in progress. There is a lot that isn't known. Especially what TS can control on unlocked motherboards.

Throttlestop is a full featured program. It can modify Volts, and multiplier to the extent that they are unlocked. It displays these values and CPU speed, CPU core load, and temperatures in the main window. There is also a benchmark and mild stress test window for testing your results. Changes do not require a reboot to be applied. It also controls C state and other advanced features. You don't need to know your PLL chip to use it.

Her are a couple results (there aren't many so far).
 Dell Dimension E520 QX6800 4GHZ CPUZ, 3.72GHz Firestrike.
 Dell Precision T3400 QX9650 4.15GHz Firestrike.
 Dell Optiplex 745 QX6800 3.45GHz
 To be tested Dell Precision T3500 W3690 Xeon

If you want to try this you will need an OEM computer that supports an Extreme series CPU. Most of them have a 95W CPU limit and won't boot an Extreme chip. The exceptions are the old 65nm machines that supported Pentium4, and PentiumD CPUs. They don't have the 95W limit. The others without the limit are the workstation models.

 There is a learning curve with doing this and I will do what I can here to help with that.
 1- Throttlestop sometimes won't save setting unless you open the program twice.
 2- Winring0dll sometimes goes missing. My solution was to drag the whole folder to the desktop. Then it  works. Unclewebb the TS developer has another solution below.
 3- Some benchmarks (Heaven) can post inverse results VS overclock. This happens if you've opened TS and minimized it. A restart (not reboot) fixes this. Some (Geekbench) won't let it run until you do this. GB also doesn't detect the OC.
 4- You need to change some Windows settings. A high performance User Profile, and turning down Windows Security  to minimum.
 Firestrike doesn't seem to have any issues with TS.
5- The Lock /Unlock feature can be confusing at first. It's a button that "will do " what it says.
If it says UNLOCK the CPU "is" locked until you click there. If it says LOCK the CPU "is" unlocked. This will lock in your overclock setting, not return to the default Multiplier.
6- Reset FID VID on exit is on page 2, hit OPTIONS to view it. This will save your overclock. Be careful. If you leave this turned OFF ( easy to do since it's on page 2) you could save an unstable setting. A backup bootable HDD is nice to have if this happens.
7- The very highest Voltage setting (1.6V in my case) can result in sudden power loss. This doesn't allow the program to reset the VID. I would avoid this setting. People will be tempted to do this because TS makes it so easy to set Voltage high  and Then tun it back down on the run

 There are a few unanswered questions.
1- It's known that TS only lowers voltage on locked computers with locked CPUs. How it behaves on an unlocked MB is not known. Can it raise Voltage then?
2- With a VID pinmod set high, can TS lower Voltage to the desired setting ( this would save a lot of trial and error VID modding)?

 The lack of knowledge is due to the fact that most TS users are running laptops, which closely resemble locked OEM computers in many ways.

 A couple other tips- This method of overclocking is actually very simple. There are only 3 variables.
 Voltage, cooling, and multiplier. Everything else remains unaffected.
 My advice is to do as many cooling mods as you can first. This includes heatsinks on the VRM MOSFETs. This makes more Voltage available. Start at the CPU itself with good TIM, and give some serious thought to lapping the CPU and heatsink.
 As far as voltage goes there's not a lot to do. I have sometimes seen huge gains by moving big OEM fans off of the MB header. This usually brings a BIOS fan fail message.
 I suppose I'll get some TLDR replies on this!


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## P4-630 (Aug 9, 2017)

I'm sure the Author of TS @unclewebb could tell you more about it.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 9, 2017)

I spoke to him before I posted this. He said post the thread and he agreed to participate as needed. I think the laptop side of things has kept him quite busy.


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## unclewebb (Aug 9, 2017)

Retrorockit said:


> Throttlestop is a full featured program. It can modify FSB





Retrorockit said:


> 3- Can TS raise the FSB on an unlocked MB?



That is one thing that ThrottleStop cannot do.  You can use ThrottleStop to raise the multipliers on the unlocked Core 2 based Extreme (QX or X) processors but you cannot use ThrottleStop to change the FSB speed.



Retrorockit said:


> 1- Throttlestop won't save setting unless you open the program twice.



You should not have to do this.  You might have a problem like this if you run ThrottleStop in one folder and it creates a ThrottleStop.INI config file in that folder and then you drag the folder somewhere else on your hard drive.  Newer versions of Windows can change the read / write file permissions when you move folders.  This can turn off file write permissions on the ThrottleStop.INI file so ThrottleStop will be able to read from this file but it will no longer be able to write any changes back into this file.  The best advice is to unzip the ThrottleStop folder and all of its contents to wherever you want it and leave it there.  Do not move it around.  I put this folder in C:\Program Files(x86).  If you do need to move it around, make sure that the INI file still has read write permissions.  If you do not know how to check that, just delete the INI file and let ThrottleStop create a new INI file which should have the proper permissions.



Retrorockit said:


> 2- Winring0dll sometimes goes missing.



This is another one of those Windows safety features.  It might also be hard drive speed related.  If ThrottleStop is not able to load the WinRing0 file within a reasonable amount of time, Windows will have a fit and then might black list the WinRing0 files and prevent ThrottleStop from opening them up ever again.  Very bizarre.  You can also run into this problem if you try to start 2 different programs at about the same time that both try to open the WinRing0 driver.  One program will likely succeed and the second program will fail.   Some antivirus programs are also hesitant to let a person run any software that uses the WinRing0 files to access the CPU registers.  I use Avast and reasonably modern platter hard drives and have not had this problem in a long time.  RealTemp and ThrottleStop both use WinRing0.  Some other monitoring programs also use it but the WinRing0 files are hidden.  The final WinRing0 driver was released many years ago so there is not much one can do about it.

Another thing you have to watch out for is if you change the FSB speed while in Windows, this can screw up the accuracy of some of the high performance clocks that Windows and many other programs use to measure time.  I wrote a separate program called WinTimerTester to check for this bug.  It runs two of the main Windows system timers against each other.  In theory, both timers should measure the same amount of elapsed time.  If there is a problem, one timer will run much faster than the other one.  These timers are used in a lot of benchmark type programs.  If you start getting weird benchmark results when FSB overclocking, it would be a good idea to test your timers.

WinTimerTester 1.1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0dpSo9k93jDZlZ6NWNlV0RTcUU/view?usp=sharing

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/setfsb-game-timing-problem-g60jx.568525/page-2#post-7364805

Using Hibernate or Stand By mode might let Windows re-calibrate these timers so they are both in sync like they should be.

Many companies are knee deep in old Dell workstations.  Hopefully more hobbyists on a budget learn that you can build a cheap and reasonably speedy computer with this old hardware.  I am still rocking my old QX9650 as I type.  



Retrorockit said:


> I think the laptop side of things has kept him quite busy.



I promised the W1zzard that I would finally update RealTemp with more features and better support for the newer 7th Gen CPUs and Windows 10.  Final testing is in progress.  I borrowed the TS Bench and a few other goodies from ThrottleStop.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 9, 2017)

Thank you for clarifying things. Someone reported FSB down clocking to me. I guess it wasn't true.
The start twice might only apply to the older TS6 version I used, and maybe just to first installation. I've had users report it won't save and this seemed to resolve that.
 I knew my moving the folder to the Desktop wasn't the best solution, but it got me into the Dell overclocking game.
I get questions daily at Tomshardware about overclocking OEM computers and I thought a reliable resource for this technique would be useful. Also I'm curious if traditional FSB overclockers would find it useful also.
 BTW W3690/W3680 6 core Xeons are unlocked, and if you buy workstations with them already installed you can get quite a deal.


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## agent_x007 (Aug 9, 2017)

LGA 775 Conroe/Wolfdale/Kentsfield/Yorkfield don't have a PCU (power control unit), add to that fully analog VRMs on MBs, and I'm pretty sure Overvolting is impossible (or requires a ASUS/Gigabyte specific program that can't work with OEM boards).
I assume OEM board doesn't have "hidden" Vcore control options.

You can downclock and/or decrease Vcore, because of C-stages (and SpeedStep), since those are supported.
Unlocked CPU's don't have locked higher than stock multipliers, that's why you can choose them in TS.

Locked OEM boards should support VID pins modding and *BSEL/tape mods (*limited to max FSB supported by board).

TDP of CPU doesn't matter. If BIOS has ucodes for it, CPU will boot.
With TS, you can prevent VRM from blowing up tho


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## Retrorockit (Aug 9, 2017)

I used Throttlestop 6.00 to overclock my Dell Dimension E520 QX6800 to 4GHz. The CPUZ link is in my sig. You can check the Voltage there. You can raise Voltage on the unlocked CPUs. You can also see the 266 fsb.
 TDP of CPU does matter. Chipsets have a TDP limit and won't run CPUs that are higher than rated. If you get them to boot then you can run more power through them. If you go to Delidded.com you will see various chipset limits posted there. That's why Q9650 will run in many OEM computers but not the QX9650. Most OEM MB with 1333fsb have 95W limit.
 The only reason my E520 booted with a 130W chip is it supports 135W Pentium Ds.


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## agent_x007 (Aug 9, 2017)

Well, I never had a BTX board, so maybe things are different on them, BUT on ATX ones you can't raise the Vcore by 3-rd party software (at least I never heard of someone doing that).
Running 1,6V through QX6800 isn't good for MOSFETs on OEM boards 
Still, I run 1,4V through Pentium 4E @ 3,53GHz on PGA 478 that uses three phases (six MOSFETs in total, but I added a heatsink to it's three chokes tho)  : https://valid.x86.fr/gtfwfk

There is no such thing as "Chipset TDP limit", because it's VRM and BIOS that decide what can and can't be supported. Example of G31 chipset based board, compatible with 130W Quad Core, but not with Pentium D 130W TDP CPU's : LINK.
Again, I don't know if this applies to BTX OEM boards.

Not running QX9650 on OEM boards :
Anyone tried to manually inject ucodes for Extreme versions BEFORE installing them (ie. BIOS moding) ?
Official BIOS may simply not have a ucodes to recognize such CPUs.
From AMD side :
You can run (boot/use) 130W TDP Phenom II 965 on 95W TDP only MB (even on official BIOS).
You may damaged the VRM in worst case, but it is possible.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 10, 2017)

I created this thread to let people know about this method. BTX makes no difference. That's the big thing about TS vs. the FSBware. It does Voltage.
1.6V was just for a validation run. If you click the image at CPUZ you can see the Voltage for 3.72GHz which is my benchmarking speed. The E520 has 4 phase VRM with very good airflow to them. 3,8GHz was a standard Pentium 4 speed.

 You say it's possible. I've never seen it done. And I've been looking a lot! I did see Dells with 95W limit and G31 so you're right about it not being the chipset. But to compare a G31 to a Pentium 4 chipset is not relevant. There is no 1333fsb chipset that supports P4. They're 2 generations apart. The P965 supports 65nm Core2Dou, and P4. Some 945 boards got upgraded also. AMD is a whole unrelated topic.
 I did see a Q9650 running 3.6GHz in an Optiplex 780 (95W) at userbenchmark.com so it looks like the fsb got unlocked. I think I know how it was done.

The microcode idea sounds like it's worth a try. It's possible they leave out the code for over 95W CPUs. As far as modding a Dell BIOS goes it's a tough nut to crack. But maybe microcode can be  done. It would be nice if it works I have 2- QX9650s I can't use.

Here's my take on the QX9650 microcode mod for OEM computers. If anybody did try it and it ran, if they didn't know about Throttlestop then they would just have an expensive Q9650. So maybe it's been done and forgotten.


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## Jstn7477 (Aug 10, 2017)

I just tried the latest TS on my Dell Dimension E520 and QX6800 (and pretty sure I have before) and the multiplier selection doesn't go beyond 11. Am I missing something?


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## agent_x007 (Aug 10, 2017)

Retrorockit said:


> You say it's possible. I've never seen it done. And I've been looking a lot! I did see Dells with 95W limit and G31 so you're right about it not being the chipset. But to compare a G31 to a Pentium 4 chipset is not relevant. *There is no 1333fsb chipset that supports P4. They're 2 generations apart.* The P965 supports 65nm Core2Dou, and P4. Some 945 boards got upgraded also. AMD is a whole unrelated topic.


I give you GA-EP45-UD3P (LINK), a board with P45 chipset that supports both 1600MHz FSB/PCI-e 2.0 AND has official support for everything from Celeron D to Core 2 Extreme QX9770 (except 130nm Gallatin P4EEs).
There are also boards like ASRock 775i65G R3.0, that support 65nm Core 2 Quads on old 865G chipset (with slower FSB or 1066MHz with 400MHz CL2.5 DDR1) : LINK.
And I play around a 945G based board, with PGA 478 socket and PCI-e slot 

PS. I usually use SetFSB for Windows FSB OC (a close enough PLL chip name is needed tho).
Altho I don't use it often (since I prefer BIOS overclocking, and I do not use OEM boards).


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## Retrorockit (Aug 10, 2017)

Jstn7477 said:


> I just tried the latest TS on my Dell Dimension E520 and QX6800 (and pretty sure I have before) and the multiplier selection doesn't go beyond 11. Am I missing something?


There is a setting for "C states off" that keeps it from downclocking, and gives more control to Throttlestop. Unclewebb disagrees but mine sometimes won't save until I open the program a 2nd time.



agent_x007 said:


> I give you GA-EP45-UD3P (LINK), a board with P45 chipset that supports both 1600MHz FSB/PCI-e 2.0 AND has official support for everything from Celeron D to Core 2 Extreme QX9770 (except 130nm Gallatin P4EEs).
> There are also boards like ASRock 775i65G R3.0, that support 65nm Core 2 Quads on old 865G chipset (with slower FSB or 1066MHz with 400MHz CL2.5 DDR1) : LINK.
> And I play around a 945G based board, with PGA 478 socket and PCI-e slot
> 
> ...



You seem to be looking for an argument. You were wrong about Voltage raising on unlocked CPUs and I may be wrong about the 95W limit. Please understand that I have specialized in overclocking locked BIOS computers, and especially BTX where there are no aftermarket parts. There is a lot I don't know about normal overclocking, and I'm always finding out something new in my area of interest. I like to do original work and not something that others have done dozens of times before. There may be many people who installed Core2Extremes in OEM computers (like myself with QX6700) and got nothing out of it. Most people don't post their failures. This is how you can succeed.
 I'm actually more interested in the Dell T3400 BTX workstation with Locked BIOS, X38 chipset with hidden support for 400fsb, and 130W CPUs. On a 3 phase VRM BTW.
 Most of what you're posting seems to be more about proving that you're an expert at something else, and not about the subject of this thread.
 Many OEM computers like the E520 have a locked PLL chip and crash when SetFSB is applied.


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## P4-630 (Aug 10, 2017)

@Retrorockit learn to use the "Multi-Quote" button instead of double posting!


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## agent_x007 (Aug 10, 2017)

I play with everything other than OEMs (and BTX), so we actually have no common ground...
I saw you comment "searched a lot", but I haven't thought that you were talking about OEM only boards.
So is this program OEM only then, ie. no one used it for regular MBs ?
I'm asking this, because I'm interested in using this on ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 10, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> @Retrorockit learn to use the "Multi-Quote" button instead of double posting!


 This my first thread here so I'm learning. Different forums have different rules. Thanks.



agent_x007 said:


> I play with everything other than OEMs (and BTX), so we actually have no common ground...
> I saw you comment "searched a lot", but I haven't thought that you were talking about OEM only boards.
> So is this program OEM only then, ie. no one used it for regular MBs ?
> I'm asking this, because I'm interested in using this on ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0.


 
I didn't make the thread OEM, or BTX because usually I just get trolled by people who don't care about such things. Also if someone were in a SetFSB, or VID mod situation it might be possible to VID mod too high and use TS to drop back down instead of a series of VID mods. Maybe BIOS mod too high and test on the run to get where you need to go. I don't know what it might be good for. I'm just letting people know it exists. It seems like a good companion to SetFSB, and with C2X it also works when SetFSB doesn't. The program was originated for undervolting laptops. The OC aspect is a side feature that's not well known. Laptops are basically OEM computers with even more limitations on the PSU side. Actually it's not been used very much for OEMs either.

The WG864 CPUZ postings here are myself, and another guy from Tomshardware who tried it also. He also did a Dell T3400 QX9650@4.15GHZ
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...d652043505520513638303020204020322e393347487a
 Someone posted a "Mission Impossible" At Reddit about overclocking a Dell Optiplex 745. I had it @ 3.45GHz in about 30 minutes using spare parts I had sitting around. Since it wasn't as good as the 4 phase 520 I didn't load test it.
 If anyone wants to get an OEM to play with the Dimension 9200 is the same as the E520 but has room for a full size video card. The T3400 has room for 2 GPUs and supports 1333fsb. All Dells form this era have an issue with GCN3 not able to display the Dell BIOS resolution. This is all R9-3xx (and 285/380) GPUs and newer. Older HD7xxx are OK.

If you want to use it please do so. But realize you might be the first one doing it. So there is no forum or expert to hold your hand. I hope you'll post what you find here. What works, and what doesn't. Unclewebb said he added the TS testing suite to RealTemp 4.00

I was actually at the Gigabyte page you posted recently and told someone who owned that board that it supported all those CPUs and he insisted that it only supported up to QX6800.
 We both ended up not sure.It's nice to know I was right. But the motherboard was dead so it didn't matter.



Jstn7477 said:


> I just tried the latest TS on my Dell Dimension E520 and QX6800 (and pretty sure I have before) and the multiplier selection doesn't go beyond 11. Am I missing something?



You might try TS6. Throttlestop gets rewritten with every new family of CPUs, and probably operating systems also. TS6 is a lot simpler due to this.

 I'm going to throw out some Dell part numbers you might need also.
D9729 Pentium4 PentiumD heatpipe cooler. Bolts right into the E520. This is the go to bolt in cooler for Optiplexes also.
T9303 Similar but different heatpipe layout and better airflow. Cools better. If you buy it with the cover you can cut the top 1/2" off and glue it onto the E520 cover and use it as a guide to move the holes.
 Delta AFC1512DG, Dell#NC466, Dell# DG168 These are all the same Delta 150mm X 50mm 1.8A fan. Sometimes cheaper under the Dell numbers. This replaces the whole fan and housing assy. Velcro and a little duct tape will get it in. Plugs into the Dell 5 pin MB header. The original fan speeds up too late and gets noisy also. This is a workstation "quiet" fan.
GFB1212VHG Delta 2 motor 3.4A 8 wire fan. Fits in the stock housing. Obviously not running off of the MB header. Power leads to Molex 4 pin, Pair the PWMs to MB and run one rpm wire to the MB. There are 4 wire versions of this fan also (2+,2-). Throws fan fail message. Requires reset in BIOS to clear. This fan @ 100% (pull PWM wires) was how I got 4GHz.
Nidec TA350DC  This is a 92mmX38mm fan. It comes in ratings from .4A up to 1.8A It controls speed by air outlet temperature. This could be put on the back of the D9729 to pull air though the close fins and can have the CPU heat ducted out the back separately.
 You can expect 3.45GHz with the fan on the MB. This assumes a SLACP chip. B3 stepping is harder to work with.

1.45V stock, 1.5V with VRM cooling, 1.6V with fan power form Molex. 1.6V is the highest setting Intel wrote chipset calls for. It's usually unstable, 1.588V is max. useful.

You can browse my Retrorockit gallery at Overclock.net for pics. of some of this.



Jstn7477 said:


> I just tried the latest TS on my Dell Dimension E520 and QX6800 (and pretty sure I have before) and the multiplier selection doesn't go beyond 11. Am I missing something?


 There is one more thing. I've added  it to the Learning Curve section. The LOCK, UNLOCK button can be confusing at first. If it says UNLOCK the CPU is locked until you click it. Then it will say LOCK and the settings will be "unlocked" until you lock them by clicking there again.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 14, 2017)

I've added couple more cautions to the learning curve section. One of them is a known issue. The other one is based on my own experience with this.


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## Jstn7477 (Aug 15, 2017)

My mistake was that I didn't press UNLK to unlock the voltage and multiplier. I can do so now, but my remote machine froze at 12x and the default 1.337v so I'll have to play around with it later when I have access to it. My QX6800 is a G0 core, by the way.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 15, 2017)

My E520 maxed out at 1.45V. w/o mods. i would set that first and see how far you get. Then back down while load testing for stability. I would expect 3.45GHz stable w/o other mods. Do you have one of the heatpipe coolers. The stock low profile copper base finsink isn't much good for overclocking. It will run the SLACP at base clock just fine.


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## unclewebb (Aug 15, 2017)

Jstn7477 said:


> but my remote machine froze at 12x and the default 1.337v



When overclocking these CPUs using ThrottleStop, it is best to start with lots of voltage before adjusting the multiplier.  If you start adjusting the multiplier and the CPU does not have adequate voltage, you are going to be seeing a lot of BSOD screens.  After you do some stability testing at the higher MHz, then you can go back and see if you can still run reliably with less voltage.

The other thing to keep in mind is if you unlock the multiplier and increase it and then change your mind and want to go back to a lower value, you need to first push the ThrottleStop Reset button to reset the maximum CPU multiplier to its default value.  After you Reset, then you can increase the multiplier to whatever value you like.

Some motherboards like my Asus board completely ignores the VID voltage setting in ThrottleStop.  On this motherboard, the voltage can only be adjusted within the bios.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 15, 2017)

I like testing with Prime95 because it just drops threads when it detects errors instead of BSOD. I suppose each CPU, and motherboard will respond a little differently. There's a lot that isn't known about this yet.


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## Jstn7477 (Aug 15, 2017)

Yep, it's been a while since I've overclocked the older Core 2 chips, and my dual core X6800 topped out around 3.4GHz last time I tried, but that was on a refurbished and voltage locked ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 that I bought 5 years ago for $25 on Geeks.com and it finally died in April. I'm not too concerned about overclocking this 10yo PC since the chip is already power hungry enough as it is, but it's pretty neat that I can and I'd be happy even with just 12x and ~1.4v on the stock cooling. I already have a nice C2Q setup I acquired four years ago for $200 (Q9550 @ 3.65GHz, ASUS Maximus II Formula P45 and 8GB Corsair Dominator DDR2-1066) and my other working C2D machine has an ASRock 775i65G R3.0 I just had to replace a few caps on last week, PDC E5800 @ 3.75GHz, Sapphire 3850 AGP single slot and 2GB of decent vintage DDR-400 that I still need to OC once I find what voltage that board is giving it (no BIOS option).


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## Retrorockit (Aug 15, 2017)

A question came up about overclocking unlocked i7, and unlocked Xeons (W3690, W3680). 
The procedure is to set the multiplier to Base Clock +1 This applies maximum turbo boost. Then look for the Turbo Power Limits window and set the limit higher. This should be possible with an unlocked CPU unless the BIOS is programmed to block this. Since very few have tried this yet which systems will or won't respond are unknown. If you try this and it does or doesn't work please post here to add to the knowledge base.



Jstn7477 said:


> Yep, it's been a while since I've overclocked the older Core 2 chips, and my dual core X6800 topped out around 3.4GHz last time I tried, but that was on a refurbished and voltage locked ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 that I bought 5 years ago for $25 on Geeks.com and it finally died in April. I'm not too concerned about overclocking this 10yo PC since the chip is already power hungry enough as it is, but it's pretty neat that I can and I'd be happy even with just 12x and ~1.4v on the stock cooling. I already have a nice C2Q setup I acquired four years ago for $200 (Q9550 @ 3.65GHz, ASUS Maximus II Formula P45 and 8GB Corsair Dominator DDR2-1066) and my other working C2D machine has an ASRock 775i65G R3.0 I just had to replace a few caps on last week, PDC E5800 @ 3.75GHz, Sapphire 3850 AGP single slot and 2GB of decent vintage DDR-400 that I still need to OC once I find what voltage that board is giving it (no BIOS option).[/QUOTE



 At CPUz 3.45GHz is the typical overclock on aftermarket MBs. The E520 can go much higher. The steps in this method with 1066fsb 65nm Extreme CPUs are 1 full multiplier. So it's 3.72GHz or bust. Powering the fan off of the PSU, and a bigger fan will be needed. But 3.45 is respectable and easy. You could cut the PWM wire to the stock fan for testing @ 100% speed, but you won't want to be in the same room with it.


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## agent_x007 (Aug 16, 2017)

With VID mod I overclocked QX9770 to ~3,8GHz stable on my 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0.
Here's a Valid of not stable OC : http://valid.x86.fr/ij08g9


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## Retrorockit (Aug 16, 2017)

agent_x007 said:


> With VID mod I overclocked QX9770 to ~3,8GHz stable on my 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0.
> Here's a Valid of not stable OC : https://valid.x86.fr/ij08g



The link didn't work for me. Did you use TS at all? TS should control Volts also on a C2X. QX9650 can run 4.15GHz stable on a Dell T3400 with TS only. I think there's more in it.


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## agent_x007 (Aug 16, 2017)

Retrorockit said:


> The link didn't work for me. Did you use TS at all? TS should control Volts also on a C2X. QX9650 can run 4.15GHz stable on a Dell T3400 with TS only. I think there's more in it.


FIxed : http://valid.x86.fr/ij08g9
No TR, just tinfoil  (it changes CPU VID from 1,2875V to 1,3875V).
ASRock board supports BIOS multiplier change, no Vcore change support.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 17, 2017)

It took 1.4375V. to get 4.15GHz. I see 266fsb also. I would have VID to 1.45V. and let TS undervolt it back down. Then you'd know what that MB is made of.

I see you've had that chip to 4.5GHz @ 1.5V on an ASUS. Was that on  air or water?



agent_x007 said:


> FIxed : http://valid.x86.fr/ij08g9
> No TR, just tinfoil  (it changes CPU VID from 1,2875V to 1,3875V).
> ASRock board supports BIOS multiplier change, no Vcore change support.


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## agent_x007 (Aug 17, 2017)

Air (Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme + AC MX-2 paste + Delta FFB1212EHE @ 7V).
But game stable was ~4,28GHz @1,525V (no LCC)


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## Retrorockit (Aug 17, 2017)

The Dells don't have VID in BIOS. TS works great for VID with an unlocked CPU. Seems like you missed an opportunity to try it.


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## agent_x007 (Aug 18, 2017)

Retrorockit said:


> The Dells don't have VID in BIOS


There is no need for "having" VID in BIOS.
VID is Voltage Identification.
Basicly, it's default voltage every motherboard must use when they initialise a CPU.
DELL/HP PCs must obey VID as well, because that's what tells MB what Vcore to set.
VID Mod I used for my 4CoreDual board, forcefully changed VID of my processor (on hardware level). So, regardless of BIOS locks, and regardless of what was set in factory by Intel, voltage set by motherboard will be adjusted accordingly (if VID mod works correctly).
Because of ^that, VID mod will work on Dells as well (or any LGA 775 MB you can buy).


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## Retrorockit (Aug 19, 2017)

I understand what a VID Pinmod is. Throttlestop can do this in Windows and save the setting with  Core2extreme CPU. I wonder how TS would respond to a  VID hardmod. Would it allow decreased voltage from there? would it allow further increase, or would the hardmod lock the setting? If you had tried TS you should have had any Voltage you wanted, and any multiplier also.


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## agent_x007 (Aug 28, 2017)

Good news 
http://valid.x86.fr/6a4a9i
It works on my ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0 (no VID/BSEL mods).
	

	
	
		
		

		
			










I found a bug (at least with my MB) :
Multipliers above x15 don't have "x.5" (that's in BIOS), and when x15.5 or any other x.5 multi is set in Throttlestop, it doesn't work (multi is getting rounded down to closest lower "full" multiplier).
Also, I think this is the reason why CPU-z is broken when multi is over x15.
"Broken" as in it causes frequency error on valid result (bad frequency readout on otherwise valid result) :/
Can someone pass along this information to CPU-z programmers ?


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## Retrorockit (Aug 28, 2017)

4Ghz @ 1.376V.  That's nice. The 240FSB is a little strange. I never got past 15X266 with my old 65nm quad, and it was whole multipliers from the start.


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## agent_x007 (Aug 28, 2017)

4080MHz, but who's counting 
Well, this board can't do much more over 266MHz to begin with (BIOS "ends" at 300).
With Quad Core installed, FSB is lowered by few percent because of stability (that's in CPU Support).
Next is RAM and it's inability to go 1:1 on default (MB thinks QX9770 is 800MHz CPU), without turning off two of it's 4 cores.
I lowered FSB to test how far you can go 
Only 45nm CPUs have half multipliers, and that ends with x15 multi.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 30, 2017)

I saw documentation that the X38 chipset (hidden 400 FSB support) has memory straps that only allow 800mhz memory speed with 400fsb even though they support 1066DDR22 @ 333fsb.
So it may be an Intel chipset thing. Maybe the CPUID is locking that in.
But I guess that's not it since you aren't running 400FSB.


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## agent_x007 (Aug 30, 2017)

ASRock I'm using has VIA chipset NOT Intel one (PT880 Pro/Ultra).
Don't confuse Real Frequency with Effective Frequency.
400MHz Real = 800MHz effective for DDRX RAM (Because DDR is "Dual Data Rate").
200MHz Real = 800MHz effective for all FSB speeds (because FSB is "Quad Pumped Bus" or for CPU-z "Rated FSB" value = 4x "Bus Speed" value).

Regardless, to get 800MHz on RAM on LGA 775, you need 200MHz bus speed on FSB (it's minimum value for ALL Intel chipsets that support 800MHz DDR2 RAM).
Effective FSB frequency = max. effective DRAM frequency you can set. 
So, with 1600MHz FSB, you can set 1600MHz on DDR2 RAM (if it existed ). 
You can do that no problem on DDR3 based boards.


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## timduece (Oct 13, 2017)

i have a question in options on throttlestop it says 

do not reset FID / VID on exit and its checked by default   i have a dell optiplex 745 and i have a qx6700 coming from ebay i read the quide it says to check the box but as i read it you say it should say reset FID / VID on restart so im confused

also do you think i could set the multiplier of this cpu to 11 from 10 without increasing the voltage because i think 130 tdp is the max this board officially supports and i assume raising the volts would take that higher than 130 

havent oveclocked in past so im pretty noob but nice work letting people know about this i though i was stuck with a q6600 or q6700 nice to know i can go up to a qx6800 at some point if i want


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## unclewebb (Oct 14, 2017)

Some people use ThrottleStop to set the FID / VID and then they prefer to exit ThrottleStop.  After they exit, if they want their FID / VID settings to persist, they definitely do not want ThrottleStop to reset the settings that they just made.  Other users want the FID / VID settings to return to their default values when they exit ThrottleStop.  If they play around with the program, having the settings return to default on exit is sort of a safety feature.  Use this feature however you like.  If you do not understand what a feature does, give it a try and see first hand what it does.  Trial and error is the best way to learn ThrottleStop.  Learn what each setting does.  Run a second monitoring program like CPU-Z so you can see what happens to your FID and VID with various adjustments.

The TDP rating of a processor is a maximum rating based on an Intel specified load.  There are some testing programs like Prime 95 that can put a CPU over the TDP rating even at default specs.  This number is just a spec just as the TDP rating for your motherboard is also just a spec.  It is impossible to know how close to this spec your CPU will actually run at.  It depends on what software you run and it depends on if you have a great CPU or a not so great CPU.  Some CPUs can happily run fast with very little voltage.  Other ones might need a pile of voltage to be stable at default MHz.  No one can answer these questions for you.  Some hands on testing on your motherboard is needed.

You can definitely increase the multiplier to 11 but no one knows if you can do that at default voltage or not.  There is no way to know unless you give it a try.  If it needs more voltage to be stable, give it some more voltage.  The world will not come to an end.  Your motherboard probably won't blow up and these CPUs are built like tanks.  A little extra voltage is like shooting a B-B gun at a tank.


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## Jstn7477 (Oct 14, 2017)

My QX6800 G0 runs fine at 12x and stock voltage (1.337v) in my Dimension E520, but as mentioned above, it may depend on your luck as well.


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## timduece (Oct 14, 2017)

cool thx for the replies very helpful


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## Retrorockit (Oct 16, 2017)

The QX6700 are alll B3 stepping and need more Voltage per Multiplier than the SLACP QX6800s which are G0 stepping. This also means they're a bit hotter running also.
But Gateway sold computers with that CPU at 3.2GHz and full warranty. So I would start there. I wrote an article at Tomshardware "How to Overclock dell BTX Computers" based on an e520
For the 745 the D9729 cooler bolts in, but the T9303 is better. You need to move the holes in the top of the cover to use it. Stick some heatsinks on the VRM MOSFETs (there are only 6). I got 3.45GHz out of an Opti 745 with a B3 QX6800. So that should be a reasonable goal. I only spent about 1/2 hour on it because it didn't run like the E520 so I lost interest. But at CPUZ 3.45 is the typical overclock.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 6, 2017)

I just found a Dell Vostro 460 running an i5-2500K at userbenchmark.com Like many Dell users it wasn't overclocked. But it is an unlocked 95W CPU which makes it a candidate for TS overclocking on any Dells that can run it. 95W is a very common CPU limit on Dells.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/2725916


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## Retrorockit (Nov 7, 2017)

I also found an Optiplex 7040 running an i7-6700K 91W so there may be many more combinations out there to be tried.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-OptiPlex-7040/20989
I found this also. Dell T3500 workstation running W3690 @ 4GHz.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/3125524
 I don't know this user, so it may have been done some other way. But I don't know what other way that would be.


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## WillGIam (Nov 10, 2017)

Hey guys!

I own a Dell T3500. I planned to build a cheap gaming PC with a Xeon x5650 and overclock him on an old workstation. So i bought a T3500 and a Xeon. I did know that the BIOS would lock overclock settings, but after trying with XTU, SetFSB and RW-Everything (direct programming to the clock generator on the mainboard) I could only change the clock about a few Mhz before it freezed.

I then tried Throttlestop and wasnt able to change anything. I have no "locked" or "unlocked" button some talking about and dont know where the hell I have to set the +1 for baseclock, because Im not able to open the BLCK Tab 

I also have seen this:


Retrorockit said:


> I found this also. Dell T3500 workstation running W3690 @ 4GHz.
> http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/3125524


 too, but Im wondering about many things. First of all, did he overclocked the processor only with the multiplicator to 4ghz? In the specifications you can also see that he uses 3x8gb of RAM??? On a Dell? In the datasheet they said a maximum of 4gb sticks is supported.

Can anyone help me? If needed I will post a screenshot.

Im using Win10, with the main parts of the T3500, a 750ti and 6gb RAM, (Im waiting for 12gb).

Have a nice day

EDIT: I have the solution how the Benchmark user overclocked his CPU: He did it with XTU, as you can see in some youtube videos.
EDITEDIT: If you want to go over 4ghz you can just bump up the first 2 Cores to get a stable result.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 10, 2017)

Throttlestop only overclocks unlocked CPUs. The confirmed unlocked LGA1366 CPUs are the i7-990X, The i7-980X, i7-975X, i7-965X and the W3680, and W3690  6 core Xeons.
 The last 2- i7s were 4 core 45nm CPUs the others are 32nm 6 cores.
 A question came up about 8GB RAM modules on X58 MB. here's an interesting thread on that.
http://wp.xin.at/archives/880/comment-page-1
 I've contacted Crucial.com tech support with this and am awaiting they're reply.


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## WillGIam (Nov 10, 2017)

Retrorockit said:


> Throttlestop only overclocks unlocked CPUs. The confirmed unlocked LGA1366 CPUs are the i7-990X, The i7-980X, i7-975X, i7-965X and the W3680, and W3690  6 core Xeons.
> The last 2- i7s were 4 core 45nm CPUs the others are 32nm 6 cores.
> A question came up about 8GB RAM modules on X58 MB. here's an interesting thread on that.
> http://wp.xin.at/archives/880/comment-page-1
> I've contacted Crucial.com tech support with this and am awaiting they're reply.


 Okay, that sounds good. Im selling now my old G3710 to buy the w3690 ;-) 

Have a nice day


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## Retrorockit (Nov 10, 2017)

WillGIam said:


> Okay, that sounds good. Im selling now my old G3710 to buy the w3690 ;-)
> 
> Have a nice day


You could save about $50US by getting the W3680.
 Here you can see the raised multipliers at CPUZ
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...0202020202020573336393020204020332e343747487a
And.
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...0202020202020573336383020204020332e333347487a
 Here is Crucials reply to the 48GB RAM in an X58 computer (6X8GB).

Thank you for contacting Crucial about your T3500. I've looked into this for you and according to the document you've provided, the 8GB modules should work in the system.

If you'd like to try to do this to get to 48GB, you may certainly do so, as we do have a 45 day money back return window for direct purchases. If you intend to do this, I'd recommend running a system scan from www.Crucial.com and contacting us back with a link to the results page, as this will help us try to find a matching part.

I think the advise for a scan of each system is a good idea since memory support varies from CPU to CPU in LGA 1366.

 More on this. I found out that the X56xx xeons support 288GB RAM  and there are reports of 16GB module being run on X58 with these. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
 So I don't know what this means in the real world.


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## WillGIam (Nov 10, 2017)

Hey Retrorocket, 

that sounds great! 

Actually I could save 50$, but because I cant increase the CPU voltage on my board, im only able to overclock via the multiplicator. So a higher baseclock, will bring much higher results, you know? Or do you think I will be able to increase the voltage as well, because this CPU is unlocked now? I thought this would depend on the mainboard, not on the CPU 

Have a nice evening


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## Retrorockit (Nov 13, 2017)

WillGIam said:


> Hey Retrorocket,
> 
> that sounds great!
> 
> ...


A lot of the chipset functions have been moved to the CPU core now. TS can raise Voltage on unlocked CPUs. Even on LGA 775 the Voltage can only be raised on unlocked CPUs. I've raised my Voltage to 1.588 on my QX6800 with TS. I would put the $50 towards a better GPU/ or PSU.

More good news, I found a couple of LGA1156 Unlocked CPUs under the 95W limit. i5-655K, and i7-875K
https://www.anandtech.com/show/3742/intels-core-i5655k-core-i7875k-overclocked-and-analysed-
 The i5-655K overclocks better and is selling in the $60-$80 range.
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...02020202020204b2036353520204020332e323047487a


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## Retrorockit (Nov 13, 2017)

The i5 655K is a 2core 4 thread CPU. The i7 875K is 4 core 8 thread but won't run much beyond 4GHz.


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## WillGIam (Nov 14, 2017)

Yes, but not on my mainboard  Thats the problem. Otherwise the x5650 would be enough.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 14, 2017)

WillGIam said:


> Yes, but not on my mainboard  Thats the problem. Otherwise the x5650 would be enough.



 That was general information to help others who may want to try this. They are socket 1156 CPUs. When I first posted that I wasn't aware the i5 655K was 2 core so I added that info as a clarification.
 The importance of them is they're under the 95W limit many locked BIOS OEM motherboards have.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 16, 2018)

I just did another Throttlestop overclock. As usual for me it was a Dell BTX. XPS 420 went 4GHz easily witha QX9650. 12X333fsb with a tweak from SetFSB to 4067MHz.
 That was with stock cooling. I'm going to do some cooling mods and see what it can really do.
FWIW  the XPS430 is an X48 chipset version which supports DDR3 RAM.


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## unclewebb (Feb 16, 2018)

WillGIam said:


> So i bought a T3500 and a Xeon


I also bought a Dell T3500 to play with and I had enough money left over to buy a handful of CPUs for testing purposes.  The bios in these workstations are completely locked down.  Nothing useful in there for overclocking purposes.  I first tried a Xeon X5650.  These have a locked multiplier so the next processor I tried was a W3670.  Same thing.  Locked multiplier so no overclocking.  Next up was a W3680.  These have an unlocked multiplier and are almost identical to the Core i7-980X Extreme CPUs.

https://ark.intel.com/products/4791...12M-Cache-3_33-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI?q=w3680
https://ark.intel.com/products/4793...Edition-12M-Cache-3_33-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI

Both have the unlocked multiplier and unlocked turbo power limits.  The only difference is the W3680 can be found much cheaper on EBay.  I paid $55 U.S.

The other two unlocked CPUs are the W3690 and the Core i7-990X.

https://ark.intel.com/products/5258...r-W3690-12M-Cache-3_46-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI
https://ark.intel.com/products/5258...Edition-12M-Cache-3_46-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI

Same thing.  Unlocked multiplier and unlocked TDP / TDC turbo power limits.  Both are necessary to obtain maximum performance on a T3500.  Is there any difference between these 4 CPUs when overclocking?  There shouldn't be.  Nothing significant anyhow.  They all use the same 133 MHz BCLK speed so after you adjust the multiplier, there will not be any difference.  There is no ability to control the CPU voltage on this board so they are all going to overclock approximately the same amount.  The Xeon W CPUs might actually be a hair faster because they support faster memory. 

I used ThrottleStop and bumped the multipliers up to 31 across the board so it runs at 4133 MHz regardless of how many cores are active.







I also used ThrottleStop to bump the TDP turbo power limit up from the 130 Watt default value to 180 Watts.  This allows the CPU to maintain maximum speed even when fully loaded. 






On this board the X5650 is handicapped because it only has a 90 Watt TDP limit and it is also locked so it cannot be adjusted in Windows.

The final result is a very competitive CPU without having to spend too much cash.






The heatsink is a fan less design on the T3500 but other than that, it is very well designed. 






To significantly increase cooling performance, all I did was I used some plastic cable ties and strapped an old case fan to the side of it.  Big difference.  The screenshot above shows some great temps when fully loaded and the fan is only running quietly at 5 V.

The power supply includes a 6 pin cable which opens up more options for a GPU.  You need to remove half of the hard drive plate to make room for a full size GPU but this is a 30 second mod with a Phillips screwdriver. 

Great little bang for the buck system.  I found my T-3500 for $80 U.S. locally.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 16, 2018)

Thanks for taking the time to do that and post here.
The heatsink on the T3500 isn't actually fanless. The case fan air flow, when all the RAM ducts and HDD tray are in place  is actually ducted through the the CPU cooler. The problem with the OEM fans isn't that they can't move enough air, it's that they wait until the temperature is too high before they speed up. But the bolt pattern of the CPU cooler is standard aftermarket so bigger coolers are plentiful. Larger coolers will require the removal of the HDD tray, but the 2x FDD bays leave plenty of room for modern 2.5" SSDs.  One thing that isn't mentioned is dual GPU support for SLI. Aftermarket PSUs fit, and there was an optional 525W PSU with power for 2x GPUs. Also the 3 channel RAM helps this perform beyond what DDR3 1333 would normally be expected to provide.
If you could run that at userbenchmark.com it would provide a side by side ranking against other T3500s, and also other computers in general. There is one there @ 4GHz scoring 118% ranking in gaming. It was done using Intels Extreme Tuning Utility I think.
For the more agressive overclockers, heatsinks on the VRM MOSFETs, bigger cooler setup, and massive GPU/PSU upgrades should provide even more performance gains.
But 6 cores/12 threads and 4+GHz performance for under $150 is hard to beat.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 19, 2018)

Just found out about another unlocked LGA1366 (X58) Xeon. W3570 which is a 3.2GHz  45nm 4 core with Hyper threading. These can be had for $15.
http://www.overclock.net/forum/5-intel-cpus/1386102-so-xeon-w3570-s-had-unlocked-multi-s.html
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-W3680-vs-Intel-Xeon-W3570
A little further research has uncovered the W3580 which is equal to the i7-975 and is unlocked.
And here's where this gets really interesting (for some of the oddballs among us) the W5580/W5590 is rated for dual CPU configurations, and is rumoured to be unlocked also. Unconfirmed so far.
This is probably due to no 2 CPU workstation motherboards having the multiplier option in the BIOS.
 I finally found a confirmation of this. W5580 running solo @ 42x133=5.6GHz
http://valid.x86.fr/81teia


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## dorsetknob (Feb 19, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> And here's where this gets really interesting (for some of the oddballs among us) the W5580/W5590 is rated for dual CPU configurations, and is rumoured to be unlocked also. Unconfirmed so far.


Most of the W series Xeon have 1 QPI link  for Single Socket Use   and yes the two you linked to have  2 QPI links So in Theory Should work in A Duel socket Board
Not having or had either of those CPU's or any Duel 1366 socket boards   i suspect that in order for such a Board to boot with them it might need a Bios microcode mod/injection  to recognize and work with duel W Series Xeon's
would be interesting Project with appropriate hardware


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## Retrorockit (Feb 20, 2018)

If you click on the chart at the CPUZ link you will see some of them running dual CPUs in the list there. So dual CPU isn't a problem. I haven't tried Throttlestop on dual CPUs yet. I ordered some QX9775 LGA771 Extremes but they're not here yet. I don't know if it will control 2 CPUs at once, or if I'll need to run 2 instances of TS.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 20, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> The heatsink is a fan less design on the T3500 but other than that, it is very well designed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is what I did on the one I have. 90mm fan but I left it one 12v. I barely hear it.


unclewebb said:


> The power supply includes a 6 pin cable which opens up more options for a GPU.  You need to remove half of the hard drive plate to make room for a full size GPU but this is a 30 second mod with a Phillips screwdriver.


I didn't have to do that. The card I have leaves for enough clearance that the cable fit. It a bit tight but it works.


unclewebb said:


> Great little bang for the buck system.  I found my T-3500 for $80 U.S. locally.


I paid $125 for mine but it was fully equipped with gpu, ram, hdd and Dell OS recovery discs. But but heck yes, damn good bang for buck.



unclewebb said:


> I also used ThrottleStop to bump the TDP turbo power limit up from the 130 Watt default value to 180 Watts. This allows the CPU to maintain maximum speed even when fully loaded.


I'm wanting to try this but have a concern. Will this hurt the VRM's? Even with an installed heatsink it's a bit worrying.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 20, 2018)

VRMs run pretty hot anyway. IMO one of the good things about Dell is they find it cheaper to overbuild the VRM and then leave the heatsinks off. Then I get to put them on and reap the benefits.
The polymer caps, and VRM MOSFETS are pretty rugged parts. I haven't had them fail, they just seem to just work better with heatsinks on them. I've overclocked without heatsinks and they didn't fail they just ran out of Voltage for further overclocking. I've run as much as 1.5875V. through my QX6800 and didn't have VRM problems.
 There is a bigger heatsink for the T7500  #U402F. It's taller. If you're not using the HDD tray it should fit.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Preci...m=382376829276&_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598


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## unclewebb (Feb 22, 2018)

I got lucky and found an old computer for sale about 2.5 km from home.  It came with an EVGA Classified 3 motherboard, Core i7-920, a Corsair Hydro H100 liquid cooler, a Corsair power supply, 4 GB Corsair memory, a hard drive and an old Nvida GPU.  At only $160 U.S., I couldn't resist. 

https://www.evga.com/articles/00581/






I figured a full featured board would allow me to get the most out of a W3670.  With its locked multiplier, I needed an X58 board that would be happy at a high BCLK. 






My first ever suicide run at just over 5 GHz.    Mission accomplished!  After that I backed it down to 4.6 GHz for a more realistic overclock. 






It is fun to play with and for benching it is faster than the W3680 in the Dell T-3500 board but in some ways, I like the Dell workstation better.  The Dell took about 2 seconds to overclock, it is quieter and stand by mode actually works.  The EVGA Classified board is an overclocking champ but it seems like it could have used another bios update or two before reaching the end of its life.  It gets a little finicky when pushing it to the limit.

The lesson here is if you are on a budget, the Xeon W series still offers good performance for not much cash.  Anything X58 related is over priced on EBay so it is best to look around locally.  You might be surprised by what you find at a good price.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 22, 2018)

Think I'm missing something. Can't find TS 8.60 and the TS 8.50 that's here on TPU does not seem to want to do the BCLK OC thing. Is there a download somewhere that's not in the download section? And is there possibly a guide?


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## dorsetknob (Feb 22, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> The lesson here is if you are on a budget, the Xeon W series still offers good performance for not much cash. Anything X58 related is over priced on EBay so it is best to look around locally. You might be surprised by what you find at a good price.



great find and at a fantastic price and


unclewebb said:


> My first ever suicide run at just over 5 GHz. Mission accomplished! After that I backed it down to 4.6 GHz for a more realistic overclock.


 You now understand  why so many people here still run X58 and sing their praise
welcome to the CHOIR


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## Retrorockit (Feb 22, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> This is what I did on the one I have. 90mm fan but I left it one 12v. I barely hear it.
> 
> I didn't have to do that. The card I have leaves for enough clearance that the cable fit. It a bit tight but it works.
> 
> ...





lexluthermiester said:


> Think I'm missing something. Can't find TS 8.60 and the TS 8.50 that's here on TPU does not seem to want to do the BCLK OC thing. Is there a download somewhere that's not in the download section? And is there possibly a guide?


I don't see your CPU listed. For TS overclock to work you need one of the unlocked CPUs. The best are the W3680/W3690 32nm 6 cores, or i7-980X, i7-990X . The Xeons support faster memory.
There are also some 45nm 4 cores with 3 channel memory support and Hyperthreading. Basically upgraded Core2Extremes. Very cheap though $15-$20. W3570,W3580,W5580,W5590. I'm sure there are i series equivalents to these except for the 2x CPU versions (W55xx).
This thread is actually my attempt to create a guide for this. There are very few people aware of this method. Even fewer who actually try it. But for locked BIOS computers it's the only game in town, and can produce some good budget gaming rigs. I think if you read the whole thread you'll find what you need somewhere. It's a work in progress and we need results both good and bad here to help each other.

While researching the unlocked 2-CPU Xeons I came across some useful info. that's not always listed for the other CPUs. TDP is listed as 130W which is normal for these, but Maximum Power Disipation is also listed. This has more to do with the ability of the heatspreader to support overclocking and often isn't listed. 185W sustained, and 231 W peak. I would expect other LGA1136 CPUs to be similar.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon W5580 - AT80602000756AD (BX80602W5580).html
 Here is a multiplier over clock on the W5580 at CPUZ. It's at the top of the chart there. 5.6GHz. Probably not on air for a 45nm. But the BCLK method can be quite potent also.
http://valid.x86.fr/81teia
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...0202020202020573535383020204020332e323047487a


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 22, 2018)

@Retrorockit 
I have several X5600 series Xeons. Was reading in one of the other posts that this can be done on a Dell system, which I have a few of. Does the multi need to be unlocked or was a BCLK a thing? I read in an earlier post that someone(you?) OC'd a Dell system with S771 Xeons. I'm no stranger to OC'ing, but this concept is a new one as Dells are well known for lack of OC features and I'd like to try it out, if possible.


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## jboydgolfer (Feb 22, 2018)

Would be great if this worked for locked CPUs, on unlocked mobo. More than the small bus changes that can be made in bios. A big diiference one little "k" makes , huh?


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## Retrorockit (Feb 23, 2018)

AFIK the X5600s are not unlocked. The unlocked Xeons seem to be all in the W series. The BCLK method is just a new name for the FSB method to overclock locked CPUs on unlocked motherboards. This has been the standard method of overclocking due to the prohibitive cost of unlocked CPUs. There are hundreds of forums, and unlimited posts regarding this technique.

OEMs used modified BIOS without overclocking controls, and also CPU wattage limits to keep unlocked CPUs out of office computers. Sometimes they even seem to be blacklisted. Due to warranty and tech. support concerns it's quite justified. Also office computers are a cost sensitive market and they don't have the motherboard power to support much of an overclock anyway with a few exceptions. There have been a few low powered unlocked CPUs that can run in these. But AFIK no ones tried TS overclocking yet. The low powered unlocked CPUs should be kept in mind because they may actually overclock higher due to offering more thermal head room.

Throttlestop was developed for underclocking , undervolting, and removing thermal throttling on laptops. Sometimes to increase performance, but also to extend battery life. There are several large forums dedicated to this activity. Some of them over 1000 pages long. Hidden in them are reports of unlocked CPU overclocking, mostly on laptops. I created this Desktop Overclocking thread so others wouldn't  have to wade through thousands of laptop posts to find this information. But realistically it's so little known or practiced that you are very likely to be the first one to try it on any particular combination of MB, or CPU that you try. Props to the laptop overclockers out there. They have it much harder than desktop overclockers, and they dig really deep into their systems to get their results. We're talking board level hardmods, and chipset and memory controller editing. The difference between TS and other overclocking software is it's ability to raise Volatge on unlocked CPUs. SetFSB, Clockgen, etc. can raise FSB, but without control of Voltage results are seriously limited.

For this to work you must have an unlocked CPU. Core2Extremes that were $1000 are now availablefor <$80. Locked BIOS computers in the LGA775 can be had for almost nothing, and X58 systems for not much more. The other thing that's required is a motherboard that can run an unlocked CPU. http://www.userbenchmark.com/?redirFrom=userbenchmark.com&  is very useful for finding these. You can see at a glance hundreds, often thousands, of examples of just about any system. It very common to see unlocked CPUs running there on locked motherboards but no overclocks posted. The few systems that have been overclocked are easy to see because the CPU score will be way beyond those of the base clocked CPUs. The Dell T3400 is a good example. The QX9650 score 41% at base speed, but jumps up to 57% with a 4.15GHz TS overclock. Overclocked T3500s are posting scores over 100% compared to their target "modern gaming system". Thermal mods used in traditional overclocking definitely still apply here. Heatsinking The VRMs, big CPU coolers, fan and airflow mods, lapped CPUs all still apply.

The best candidates for this seem to be the workstations, or high end gaming computers, old WS being common and therefore cheap, but the gamers might be found with decent GPUs. Dual GPU support is a huge bonus. Next would be multimedia systems, and for those in dire financial straits the office computers that can run unlocked CPUs (towers much preffered due to PSU, and GPU sizes).

Other things to watch for at userbench are missing CPUs that one would expect. This can indicate a lack of chipset or BIOS support ( many Q9550, but no Q9650 for example). Sometimes only early CPU steppings are supported. Look for Xeons running, or not. With Dells you will notice an almost total lack of AMD GPUs newer than R7 series. There is a known (among Dell users)  BIOS issue with AMD GPUs from GCN3 on up. This was resolved on newer Dells. But for the systems being considered here it's typical. You might see a couple running ( I've done it) but the BIOS settings will not be available at all.


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## John Naylor (Feb 23, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Throttlestop was designed for underclocking, and undevolting laptop computers to extend battery life.



Apple phones have a similar built in feature and the public went nutz .  The wise thing for Apple to have done was to include access to the settings and now with the "fix" out, I wander how many have opted to change to  "to be able to play cat videos at work at full perforamce setting" from the "I don'tt want my phone to die on the way home from work in the snowstorm" setting.

Thottlestop and BatteryCare utilities or equivalents should be standard fare on all battery operated devices.


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## natr0n (Feb 23, 2018)

Actually the X5600s are indeed unlocked with the right board/software.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 23, 2018)

I'm referring to multiplier unlocked. If you know of any multiplier unlocked X series Xeons please feel free to share. Examples from CPUZ showing a  raised multiplier are always welcome.
One of the reasons few people try this is lack of knowledge about which CPUs are multiplier unlocked. I give part numbers, or links to results. 
Cryptic comments suggesting  secret knowledge don't really further the purpose of this thread. Which is to let people know that they can take advantage of the millions of  locked BIOS computers out there,and easily, and inexpensively overclock them. And provide them with the information to do so.
 So let's see what you've got?


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## Retrorockit (Feb 24, 2018)

I sent someone here from another forum, and they got the impression that TS only worked on Core, and 1st Gen. CPus. I know this isn't rue so I downloaded TS 8.50 but couldn't find any release notes, or readme files to show what CPUs are currently supported. TS 8.50 supports Sky Lake, and Kaby Lake CPUs.
 Here's the Throttlestop Primer.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/ThrottleStop-Primer.213140.0.html
 Just be aware that TS is primarily intended for laptop use, so you may have to infer some things about using it with unlocked CPUs in a desktop environment. This means it's up to you to provide sufficient power and cooling for the settings you want to attempt.
 Since TS operates from inside the OS it's a good idea to have another boot option (Linux DVD) available so you can remove TS if you save an unstable setting.  This is equivalent to a CMOS reset in traditional overclocking.  It can be reinstalled easily.


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## unclewebb (Feb 24, 2018)

ThrottleStop works on the majority of Intel CPUs released during the last decade.  From unlocking Core 2 Extremes to Coffee Lake and everything in between.  Mr. Fox on NBR has always been a big fan of ThrottleStop.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-684#post-10626057

ThrottleStop automatically adjusts what features are available based on what CPU family it detects.  

The safest way to use ThrottleStop is do not add it to your Windows start up sequence until you are confident that your settings are stable.  Do plenty of stability testing before adding it to Windows using the Task Scheduler.  

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/#post-6865107

If you ever do accidentally save some unstable settings and get stuck in a boot loop, just boot up into safe mode, delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file and you will be OK after that.

To get a 5 GHz screenshot out of my W3670, I booted up in Windows at 4800 MHz and then I used ThrottleStop to enable Intel Turbo Boost which got me the 25 multiplier for a quick screenshot.  After that, I clicked on Disable Turbo and I was instantly back to a much more stable 4800 MHz.  This gave me lots of time to paste, edit and save my screenshot without having to worry about a crash.  

The X5650 I tested is multiplier locked.  On the right board you can adjust the BCLK but not the multiplier.  I think the multiplier unlocked W3680 is the best bang for the buck.  The multiplier locked W3670 is just as good as long as you have an X58 board that lets you adjust both the voltage and BCLK.  

For memory I am using 12GB of triple channel DDR3 1600 MHz Corsair Vengeance.  Very stable memory as long as you do not try to push it beyond that speed.

http://www.corsair.com/en-us/vengeance-12gb-triple-channel-ddr3-memory-kit-cmz12gx3m3a1600c9


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## m&m's (Feb 25, 2018)

Sorry to hijack the thread but I just bought myself a T3500 and I have some questions.
It has a W3550 and 12GB of RAM. I paid $128 CAD which is like ~100 USD. I think it was good deal considering current RAM prices. I did not receive it yet, but I'm already looking at W3680 CPUs and people on eBay are all asking $100 CAD ~80 USD.

Was ~100 USD a good deal for a T3500 with 12GB?
Is ~80 USD too much for a W3680?
Are the VRMs good enough for a mild overclock (with a W3680 ~4GHz)?


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## jboydgolfer (Feb 25, 2018)

I'm not familiar with that particular chip, but I'm guessing it's Xeon. Today I just happened to be looking on Amazon at the used enterprize computers. They had the x5650  which Was $220 iirc. 12gb ram, and some enterprise gpu.

Edit
 So it's a 4 core 8 thread Xeon. As long as the computer functions I'm sure it was a good deal at that price but whether or not it's a good deal to you is what matters.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 25, 2018)

The reason the W3680 is pricey is it's a 32nm 6 core 12 thread unlocked multiplier CPU. It's an i7-980X with better RAM speed. if your not going to overclock then the locked X5680/5690 would be cheaper. When overclocked the unlocked 6 core CPUs can provide comparable performance to many current CPUs. So yes they're worth it.
If money is the primary concern  there are some unlocked 45nm 4 core 8 thread CPUs that trade for under $20US. W3570/3580, and W5580/5590. The 3 channel memory and DDR3-1333 support means they can still be relevant also. This will get you in the OC game for not much risk.
You paid the right price for a bacic T3500. I paid twice that for one with a W3690 and 12GB.
BTW your not hijacking the thread. This is what it was created for. I just hope you'll reciprocate by posting your results here, and at Userbenchmark.com to further the project.
Look around in here to see what T3500 are doing.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-WorkStation-T3500--/2522
You have to click on individual setups to see the overclocks, and there won't be many. But you will see how much performance each CPU will produce. ASFAIK the 4 cores haven't been done in a T3500 yet.


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## unclewebb (Feb 25, 2018)

m&m's said:


> I'm already looking at W3680 CPUs and people on eBay are all asking $100 CAD ~80 USD.


I found my W3680 recently on EBay for $55 US.  It was from a Canadian seller so the price was a little lower than the typical EBay price.  If you can, shop locally.  You tend to find much better deals close to home. 

The VRMs should be just fine at 4 GHz.  The T3500 bios does not allow voltage adjustment so my W3680 tops out at 4000 MHz when running Prime95 and 4133 MHz seems OK for most everything else.  If all you want is 6 cores then the X5650 is a good deal at $29 U.S.+ shipping but I think you should consider getting a 6 core W3680.  The unlocked W can run 50% faster.  Put a decent GPU in and you will be surprised at the performance.


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## m&m's (Feb 25, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> I found my W3680 recently on EBay for $55 US. It was from a Canadian seller so the price was a little lower than the typical EBay price.



You got it for $55 USD shipped?


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## unclewebb (Feb 26, 2018)

An extra $7.89 U.S. for shipping.  It was money well spent.







My 5 GHz W3670 was a hair cheaper and was free shipping from China.



He still has one left.  If you see a seller with 5 or 10 of these, don't be afraid to make a low ball offer.  

I am having a lot of fun overclocking some old X58 hardware.  When I get bored, I will be able to sell this stuff for what I paid for it, maybe more.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 26, 2018)

I have a question. TS takes control of voltage with Core2Extreme LGA775 CPUs even with a locked BIOS. It's definitely a big advantage.
When you say the Dell T3500 BIOS doesn't allow Voltage control I'm not sure specifically what you mean.
I always assume the Dell locked BIOS doesn't allow this. The TDP, and TDC setting in the X58 unlocked CPU are what's confusing me.  I don't expect direct control of Voltage there either.
My question is- When you raise the TDP/TDC say to 200W, does it  raise the Voltage to support the OC on the unlocked Xeons as long as temperature is within limits? This is what I would hope for. Or is the BIOS locked at the default Voltage under all conditions? I wonder if the actual i7-990X would be different in this regard. There is a board level hardmod to get around this if necessary. But there goes quick and easy. I was hoping for the typical 4.4GHz overclock on these CPUs. In LGA775 TS provided all you needed for a high end result.
 One of the nice things about TS overclocking is that you don't need to master a bunch of RAM speed and voltage settings to support the faster BCLK. At OCN X58 club the stuff you need to know to OC one of these makes my head spin.


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## unclewebb (Feb 26, 2018)

Software voltage control was part of the Core 2 design.  When Intel released the first generation Core i, simple voltage control was removed.  I think it was not until the 4th Gen Haswell that voltage control returned as part of their Fully Integrated Voltage Regulator (FIVR).

When you go into the bios on a Dell T3500, there is no option available to increase the voltage going to the CPU.  The EVGA Classified3 X58 board has a ridiculous number of voltage control options so you can finely adjust the voltage going to every part of the CPU.  Luckily you can leave most of these voltage settings on AUTO and still get great results.  



Retrorockit said:


> When you raise the TDP/TDC say to 200W, does it raise the Voltage to support the OC on the unlocked Xeons as long as temperature is within limits?


Adjusting TDP or TDC does not have any effect on voltage.  These 2 values determine when the CPU will start to throttle (reduce) the amount of turbo boost being used.  TDP controls power in Watts and TDC controls the amount of current that can flow through the CPU in amps.  The 4th Gen and newer CPUs calculate an estimated power consumption value internally and then this info is used to control how much turbo boost the CPU is allowed to use.  When power consumption exceeds the set TDP value, the CPU will slow down just enough to keep the calculated TDP under this limit.  I will post some pics later of my overclocked W3680 to show what happens to the MHz when it starts hitting the default 130W TDP value.  These power values can be increased on the unlocked W3680 and W3690.

For the 1st Gen Core i, there is no publicly documented way to report power consumption.  This data is generated internally within the CPU but no way to know exactly what it is.  It is more of a guessing game.  If you set the TDP to 130W and the CPU is not reaching full speed then it must be throttling.  If you increase the TDP and it starts running faster, then you know it must have been hitting the TDP limit.  Some of the Asus X58 boards were running into throttling problems because one of these limits was not set high enough for extreme overclockers.  Asus ended up releasing some special bios versions under the table to keep the overclockers happy but they never offered these on their website.



Retrorockit said:


> Or is the BIOS locked at the default Voltage under all conditions?


CPUs use a voltage look up table.  The CPU determines what speed / load / temperature it is running at and then asks the motherboard to give it the appropriate amount of voltage so it can run stable.  Intel CPUs always ask for a little extra voltage so the CPU will continue to run stable well after the warranty is over.  This extra voltage allows the CPU to run stable even when it is overclocked a little.  On the 6 core Xeon W3600 series, the amount of voltage needed really starts to go up significantly when you go beyond 4 GHz.  On a board with no voltage control, the built in VID voltage table only seems to have values good enough to run stable at 4 GHz and not much beyond.  The Intel specs list the VID Voltage range for all of these processors as 0.800V - 1.375V.  I think my Xeon W3670 needs approximately 1.375V to run stable at 4 GHz.  Without adjustable voltage, that is approximately where you will end up.  

There is no real difference between the Xeon W series or the Core i7-990X Extreme.  It is all luck of the draw.  Maybe a CPU with a high VID table will give the CPU a little more voltage when used in a Dell T3500 and this will allow slightly more overclocking or maybe a CPU with a low VID voltage table will allow a user to overclock more because it is a great overclocker without needing a lot of voltage.  That might be perfect for a board that does not offer voltage adjustment.  The Xeon W3680 does just fine on a voltage locked or voltage unlocked board.  Definitely not worth paying 2 or 3 times as much to get an Extreme Core i7.

I have seen a hard mod before and some great results when feeding a 1st Gen Core i7-920XM Extreme mobile CPU some extra voltage.  I think it was svl7 on Tech Inferno that did this.  Unfortunately every time I try to go to their website, my antivirus software warns me about a Miner virus so I would not recommend going there.


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## dorsetknob (Feb 26, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> every time I try to go to their website, my antivirus software warns me about a Miner virus so I would not recommend going there.


any people will appreciate the ^^^^^ above warning


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## Retrorockit (Feb 26, 2018)

I have the hard mod in a PM at  OCN. I hope that the VRM controller chip is still on the MB and not moved inside the CPU. Basically it spoofs the voltage monitoring leg of the VRM chip with a variable resistance to make it think the Voltage is low. You need to add a Voltage readout also to detect the new value. I guess without overvolting my cooling mods won't help much. Which pin to spoof varies from chip to chip. I'll see what I can find out. Maybe my W3690 will be binned a little higher, who knows.

" I have seen a hard mod before and some great results when feeding a 1st Gen Core i7-920XM Extreme mobile CPU some extra voltage. I think it was svl7 on Tech Inferno that did this. Unfortunately every time I try to go to their website, my antivirus software warns me about a Miner virus so I would not recommend going there."

Maybe I'll boot up my Linux Live DVD, unplug my HDD and risk it. 100% power down after to clear out the RAM. I'll ask my friend at OCN first. Thanks for the heads up though.


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## unclewebb (Feb 26, 2018)

Here is an example of how the TDP setting controls the CPU speed.  I used Prime95 to fully load the W3680 and for this test I had the maximum multiplier set to 30 so the maximum speed was approximately 4000 MHz.



In the upper left corner, the TDP is set to 130 Watts so the CPU rapidly adjusts the multiplier hundreds of times per second to keep under this limit.  ThrottleStop shows the multiplier averaging 26.19.    With the TDP bumped up to 160 Watts, the multiplier is allowed to increase to 28.20.  Getting better.  Bottom left corner has the TDP up to 190 Watts and now there is just a slight hint of throttling.  An average multiplier of 29.90 is equivalent to the multi spending 90% of its time at 30 and 10% of its time at 29.  Not bad.  To get the full 30 multiplier across all 12 threads I had to bump the TDP up one more time to 200 Watts.  Now all threads are reporting the full 30.00 multiplier and I am at a legit 4000 MHz.  More power going through the CPU and more MHz equals more heat.  The higher performance is confirmed by the higher core temperatures.

I think you previously mentioned the UserBenchmark so I bumped the multi in my T3500 - W3680 up to 32 for a balls to the wall run at 4266 MHz.  The UserBenchmark is mostly a light duty bench for a hyper threaded 6 core CPU so it had no problem completing it.  The UserBenchmark seems to like my W3680.  

http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/7540614


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## Retrorockit (Feb 27, 2018)

Userbenchmark.com  isn't much of a stress test. But it's a great resource to see if a system supports a CPU, or GPU (or not). Also you can evaluate the performance gains of various mods. You have to click on individual builds to detect the overclocks. When I get a question at Tomshardware about a Dell mod I always go there to see what's already been done. If that had a GTX1080Ti it would be at the top of the chart! 96% ranking for that CPU. Now that's what I'm talking about! I notice it only shows the base clock speed. The LGA 775s show the TS OC.  T3400 @ 4.15 GHz QX9650.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/3530803

I think you previously mentioned the UserBenchmark so I bumped the multi in my T3500 - W3680 up to 32 for a balls to the wall run at 4266 MHz. The UserBenchmark is mostly a light duty bench for a hyper threaded 6 core CPU so it had no problem completing it. The UserBenchmark seems to like my W3680. 

If you left the OC @ 4.266Ghz and then ran Prime 95 would it crash, drop threads, or just throttle back the OC?

There is a bigger cooler U402F from the T7500. if you move the HDD to the FDD bay I've heard it fits. 
 The bigger fan assy. from the Precision 490 (150x50mm/ 92mm) kinda "fits". It uses the same slot in the case to install, if you trim the plastic housing down even with the top of the fan, the case cover will close. The bottom mtg. screw is moved. 256CFM. It's very quiet.
http://www.globalcomputerparts.net/us/proddetail.php?prod=JD850
I have a Thermalright Macho 120 heatsink mounted in mine. I need to figure out where to drill holes for the 10 heatpipes so I can close the cover. The original CPU cooler is now on the chipset.
Be warned. I have a box full of aftermarket CPU mounting brackets. I found some parts that work, but I have no idea what cooler(s) they came with.

Here is a seller for the unlocked 4 core W5580. $19
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Xeon...366-CPU-Processor-km-/401490804236?rmvSB=true


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## Retrorockit (Mar 1, 2018)

I found a thread at OCN about overclocking unlocked Xeons newer than X58. It's 160 pages long, and as usual contains mostly FSB, and aftermarket MB overclocking. But unlocked E5 Xeons are discussed. Also some BIOS mods and technical info about how they work. So if X58 is too old for you then this might be a good place to start. But they do some comparisons of X58 vs newer platforms and it doesn't come off all that bad usually.
http://www.overclock.net/forum/8-in...-hacking-overclocking-x79-x99-beyond-x58.html


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## m&m's (Mar 8, 2018)

I received my T3500 a couple of days ago.

Swapped the PSU because the DELL stock PSU only has one 6pin, changed the thermal paste, added two 70mm fans @5v, one in front of the cooler and the other one on the northbridge (perfect fit the nortbridge cooler seems to be exactly 70mm wide) which was getting hot but I heard it's kind of normal for a LGA1366 motherboard.

Looked around the BIOS and didn't find any options to change the front fans speed, they're silent but they don't ramp fast enough for my taste when the CPU gets to 75+C. Also most of the hot air is getting out from the PSU so I added a 120mm fan at the rear. Max CPU temperature I've got has been 71C since I've added the fans (would get to 78-79C before) under gaming load (not prime95 or similar).

My GTX 760 gets hotter by 6-7C in the T3500 case then it used to in my Xigmatek Midgard-W.

I have 6x2GB of 1333MHz memory but it runs @1066MHz and I have no options in the BIOS. The T3500 is supposed to support up to 1333MHz, is it because my W3550 only "officially" supports 1066MHz? I'll need something like a W3680 for my RAM to run @1333MHz?

Overall I'm satisfied, I've got a decent FPS increase in CPU limited games which was to be expected considering I still had a Phenom II X4 965.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 8, 2018)

W3680,W3690 are the  6C /12T multiplier unlocked 1333 RAM chips. Some people feel that the 6 cores are too expensive and usually of no advantage for gaming. But the  32 nm architecture makes them efficient, and they overclock well. There are 45nm 4C/8T options that are unlocked also. The W3570, and W3580, and their dual CPU variants the W5580, and W55590. All support 1333 RAM.  The memory controller is on the CPU so you're correct that that's where the limitation comes in. But they're all 3 channel memory so it's not as big an issue as it would be otherwise, and equal to what the Extreme series equivalents offered. Overclocking the 4 cores is unexplored so far on the T3500 and they can be had for around $20.
This CPUZ page confirms both unlocked multiplier, and dual CPU support of the W5580.
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...0202020202020573535383020204020332e323047487a


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## m&m's (Mar 8, 2018)

I know all of this already... Except, one thing you mentioned is false:



Retrorockit said:


> The memory controller is on the CPU so you're correct that that's where the limitation comes in.



Yes the memory controller is on the CPU, but it's not what limits RAM speed in this case. It's the motherboard. The memory controller on the W3550 should have no issues with 1333MHz... Intel officially supports up to DDR4-2666MHz for it's i7-8700K but people are having no issues with 4000MHz+ RAM kits...
But Dell probably locked the BIOS to the max RAM speed specified by Intel which is a shame.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 8, 2018)

I think you're referring to the memory speeds people get on aftermarket MB when they adjust the FSB higher, and the memory speed goes up also. So in that regard I guess it is the MB. But in this computer it's the CPU that limits RAM speed. Another CPU would give DDR3-1333 speed. The method of overclocking being discussed here changes multiplier, and Voltage, or in  some cases current, but leaves the FSB and memory timing as is. So for the purpose of this discussion what I said was true. Whether it's good or bad is up to you. I see long winded discussions about memory Voltage, and timings of all sorts in other overclocking forums. The people who work these things out are quite proud of their knowledge and hard won experience. But it could also be considered an unnecessary PITA.
Since you already know all of this why are you running a locked CPU that supports low memory speed, on a locked BIOS motherboard, and then complaining about it? For $20 you could solve the problem. It seems you've missed the whole point of this thread. Overclocking unlocked CPUs on locked BIOS computers. Memory speed isn't really part of the equation. The unlocked LGA 1366 Xeons support DDR3-1333.  There's not much more to it.

The main reason I started this thread is because I found it impossible to discuss Throttlestop overclocking in other forums due to the constant exchange of QPI link, and RAM timing and assorted Voltages needed to overclock using aftermarket  MB that were supposedly designed for this.

TS overclocking is very simple. Get an unlocked CPU running. Upgrade your cooling. Install Throttlestop. Then adjust your power, and multiplier until you run out of cooling, power, or speed.

Every thing else here is just to point out unlocked CPUs, or post results achieved. Or help understand Intel's changing methods and terminology to achieve this. The BIOS, and RAM timings can all be ignored. That's actually the elegance of it.

I just had some reports from a reliable source of AMD RX460, and RX480 being able to run in a T3500 with BIOS A17. So it seems the GCN3 curse has been lifted for these machines. 
No idea if AMD fixed the cards, or if Dell fixed their BIOS. I don't know if older AMD R9-3xx series will work in the T3500, or if these cards will work in older Dells.


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## m&m's (Mar 8, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I think you're referring to the memory speeds people get on aftermarket MB when they adjust the FSB higher, and the memory speed goes up also. So in that regard I guess it is the MB. But in this computer it's the CPU that limits RAM speed. Another CPU would give DDR3-1333 speed. The method of overclocking being discussed here changes multiplier, and Voltage, or in  some cases current, but leaves the FSB and memory timing as is. So for the purpose of this discussion what I said was true. Whether it's good or bad is up to you. I see long winded discussions about memory Voltage, and timings of all sorts in other overclocking forums. The people who work these things out are quite proud of their knowledge and hard won experience. But it could also be considered an unnecessary PITA. Since you already know all of this why are you running a locked CPU that supports low memory speed, on a locked BIOS motherboard, and then complaining about it? For $20 you could solve the problem. It seems you've missed the whole point of this thread. Overclocking unlocked CPUs on locked BIOS computers. Memory speed isn't really part of the equation.



I am not referring to any FSB OC or OC at all for that matter. I'm referring to the JEDEC and XMP profiles built-in the RAM sticks. The T3500 isn't limited by the memory controller and never will. It's the motherboard which doesn't seem to be willing to read any JEDEC profiles higher than the RAM speed specified by Intel for a given CPU. In the W3550 case, it's 1066MHz but again, it's motherboard related. The memory controller on the W3550 can very well work with 1333MHz RAM sticks or higher. This is what I tried to explain to you because your statement was and still is false. The memory controller has nothing to do with it. Why am I running a W3550? Because I got it for cheap with the T3500 and whether I have a locked or unlocked CPU doesn't matter since memory controllers aren't locked. It's the motherboard which "locks" them.



Retrorockit said:


> The main reason I started this thread is because I found it impossible to discuss Throttlestop overclocking in other forums due to the constant exchange of QPI link, and RAM timing and assorted Voltages needed to overclock using aftermarket MB that were supposedly designed for this.
> 
> TS overclocking is very simple. Get an unlocked CPU running. Upgrade your cooling. Install Throttlestop. Then adjust your power, and multiplier until you run out of cooling, power, or speed.
> 
> Every thing else here is just to point out unlocked CPUs, or post results achieved. Or help understand Intel's changing methods and terminology to achieve this. The BIOS, and RAM timings can all be ignored. That's actually the elegance of it.



And I have no issues with the goal of your thread, I simply gave an update about the T3500 I mentioned I bought a week or so ago and taught I would mention something I found out about the motherboard. I sure wasn't hoping it would support XMP profiles, but I taught it would have no issues with all JEDEC profiles which is not the case. Then I saw your reply with a false statement, so I taught "Hey I might as well tell him". I don't know why you got so defensive. It's a tech forum, not Facebook. If you say false stuff whether it's because you misunderstand something or because you have malicious intentions (which I don't think is the case) people will notice.

On another note, I look almost daily on eBay for W3680 CPUs. If I see one selling on the cheap, I might get it.


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## unclewebb (Mar 8, 2018)

m&m's said:


> Yes the memory controller is on the CPU, but it's not what limits RAM speed in this case. It's the motherboard.


The W3550 is a locked CPU so the maximum CPU multiplier and the maximum memory multiplier are both locked by Intel within the CPU.  It does not matter what motherboard you run it on.  At the default 133 MHz BCLK speed the maximum memory speed is 1066 MHz.  You can overclock the BCLK and this will increase the memory speed but there is no way to increase only the memory speed.  Some motherboards like the EVGA Classified X58 board I tried have lots of options in the bios to change the memory speed but they do not actually work when the CPU is locked.  The advantage of the W3680 / W3690 is that they both support 1333 memory.

An 8th Gen 8700K is an unlocked CPU so any comparison to one of those is not valid.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 8, 2018)

The memory controller is on the CPU, not the MB. The memory speed, and also memory capacity vary with the CPU chosen. The i7-990X supports 24GB RAM @ 1066 speed. The W3690 supports 24GB @1333, The locked CPU X5690 supports 288GB @ 1333. Some people claim to run 48 GB on the Xeons that support 24GB.
 For $20 you could have a faster unlocked W5580 CPU that supports 144GB of DDR3 1333 RAM.
 Or you can complain about the motherboard, call me a liar, and argue with Intels spec. sheets. Maybe no one will notice. OOPS too late for that.


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## unclewebb (Mar 8, 2018)

@Retrorockit - Are you 100% sure that the W5580 has an unlocked multiplier?  The CPU-Z entry seems legit.  Just surprised that more people didn't do some simple bump the multi overclocking.  Might have to go buy one to confirm.  I think I can spare $20 bucks.  Maybe I will get a winner like this one.  

http://valid.x86.fr/81teia


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## m&m's (Mar 8, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> At the default 133 MHz BCLK speed the maximum memory speed is 1066 MHz.


Then how did this guy on HWBot ended up with a FSB: DRAM ratio of 2:10? It should be locked at 2:8.
http://hwbot.org/submission/1068454_honkie_wprime___1024m_xeon_w3550_2min_32sec_703ms





It could be an engineering sample or a fake that didn't get cut or some kind of hard mod?

Also there are CPU-Z screenshots of i7 950s with ratios of 2:10 which are very similar to W3550s.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 8, 2018)

As I said it's an FSB overclock on an aftermarket MB. There are endless complications to this. If that's what you want to do no one is stopping you. If you want to try it on an OEM motherboard go ahead. I'm aware of a couple hardmods to raise Voltage, and unlock FSB limits. Some times when you change fsb you can run into memory timing straps that are undocumented because they were never intended to be used. There are also softmods that let  you edit the RAM modules themselves, and the chips on the MB. SETfsb allows hex editing of the PLL. RW Everything is another. I'm aware of these techniques. But have very little use for them myself. Also software doesn't always report the correct timing for some overclocks. I've had posts at Geekbench showing my CPU at base speed, but they had to raise the chart to show my score. Some TS overclocks register at userbenchmark.com other don't. Sometime an overclock will display one thing if you restart before the run or just apply the settings. Does CPUZ measure the RAM speed, or calculate it from settings it detected, that may have been changed. You seem to have an obsession with RAM speed. This thread is about how to simply and easily overclock unlocked CPUs on locked BIOS computers. Modification of RAM timings is quite beside the point. In fact not having to bother with it is the point.
If you need faster memory then go figure it out for yourself.  I have absolutely no obligation to figure it out for you. Why don't you look for a RAM overclocking thread.
Here's the X58 Xeon thread at OCN. All they talk about is RAM timing, Voltage, QPI links. 1352 pages of it. Enjoy!
http://www.overclock.net/forum/8-intel-general/1489955-official-x58-xeon-club-1352.html


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## unclewebb (Mar 9, 2018)

@m&m's - Thanks for the info.  It is possible that the Intel docs are wrong and the W3550 supports DDR3-1333.  

This article shows that you need an unlocked Extreme processor to take full advantage of higher speed memory.

https://techreport.com/review/15967/exploring-the-impact-of-memory-speed-on-core-i7-performance

Anyway, @Retrorockit is right.  This stuff is interesting but off topic.  If I ever buy an unlocked W5580 or W5590 and manage to overclock it in my T3500, I will post about it here.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 9, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> @Retrorockit - Are you 100% sure that the W5580 has an unlocked multiplier?  The CPU-Z entry seems legit.  Just surprised that more people didn't do some simple bump the multi overclocking.  Might have to go buy one to confirm.  I think I can spare $20 bucks.  Maybe I will get a winner like this one.
> 
> http://valid.x86.fr/81teia


 I came across the W3580/70s and while researching them came across a mention that the W5580, W5590 were unlocked also. Aside form the QX9775 LGA771 they're the only unlocked dual Proc. CPUs I ever  heard of. I didn't know there were 2x CPUs LGA1366 except the X5000 series. I dug around until I found a multiplier overclock on one. I think people own them and just assume they're locked. All the 2x CPU overclocks were FSB mods on an aftermarket MB.


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## Susquehannock (Mar 9, 2018)

Greetings.  Just signed up. *Retrorockit* pointed me here from another forum.

Have been running RX 480 in this T3500 for well over a year without issues. Changed over to Win10 a few weeks ago and it was a breeze.

Ordering a W5590 right now and will report back how it over clocks with TS in this T3500.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 9, 2018)

I was hoping you would sign on here. You seem to know as much about the T3500 as anyone. It's looking like the bang for the buck overclocking champ. Also with 12 threads , 48GB* RAM, 3 channel memory, and dual GPU support, it has potential for some more "serious" computing .

*unofficial X58 capacity not confirmed on T3500


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 9, 2018)

Is there a link to version TS 8.60 somewhere?


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## jboydgolfer (Mar 9, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> Is there a link to version TS 8.60 somewhere?



If I recall correctly it's not released publicly. unclewebb alluded to that in another thread iirc


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 9, 2018)

jboydgolfer said:


> If I recall correctly it's not released publicly. @unclewebb alluded to that in another thread iirc


Ah, ok. Been seeing screen shots of it and thought I was missing something.. Thanks.


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## dorsetknob (Mar 9, 2018)

jboydgolfer said:


> If I recall correctly it's not released publicly. unclewebb alluded to that in another thread iirc


He also mentioned it here somewhere 
I believe he said 
" its an invite only Private Beta at the moment"


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## unclewebb (Mar 9, 2018)

m&m's said:


> The T3500 is supposed to support up to 1333MHz


I have a W3680 in my T3500 with some Corsair DDR3 memory that has 2 XMP 1600 profiles.  Sadly, the XMP profiles are ignored by the T3500.  I am pretty sure it defaults to 1333 but I will double check and post a CPU-Z pic later on to confirum.  The T3500 is a workstation so the bios is like a vast wasteland.  Not much for useful options in there.  



lexluthermiester said:


> Is there a link to version TS 8.60 somewhere?


All my computer time lately has been used up playing with my new X58 hardware.  The next TS version is about 99% done.  If you want to do some beta testing, just send me a message.


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## Susquehannock (Mar 9, 2018)

Yes indeed. Memory controller being CPU integrated, and x58 architecture mandates RAM speed is controlled that way.

As an aside, all of the T3500 that I have received had W3565 (1066mhz) with 1333mhz RAM installed. They were fixed at 1066 because of the CPU. Changing to a X5687 allowed them to run at 1333. That one simple CPU change, all else exactly the same, upped Firestrike bench scores by 20-25%.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 10, 2018)

dorsetknob said:


> He also mentioned it here somewhere
> I believe he said " its an invite only Private Beta at the moment"


I missed it somewhere.


unclewebb said:


> If you want to do some beta testing, just send me a message.


I'd be happy to play with it and report any issues back. PM sent.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 10, 2018)

I wonder if Intel XTU would unlock the XMP memory profiles. It seems their own software should work on their own memory controller. One T3500 at Userbench was overclocked to 4GHz that way. But with the 3 channel architecture these machines can keep up with newer models that don't always have that.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 11, 2018)

@unclewebb Here's the screen shot you asked for.




One of my Dell systems running at it's maximum. Very nice utility!
However, it does show weird multipliers when turned off;


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## unclewebb (Mar 11, 2018)

@lexluthermiester - You have the low power C1E state enabled in your last two pictures.  When this C State is enabled, the CPU multiplier and CPU voltage are rapidly cycled up and down to decrease power consumption.  If the CPU has something to do, the multi and voltage go high; CPU is idle with nothing to do, CPU multi and voltage go low.  This is happening continuously hundreds of times per second and each thread can enter various C States individually.  ThrottleStop uses high performance timers within the CPU and is able to calculate a very accurate average multiplier while this is happening.  The data looks very strange but it is accurate.  

Your first picture shows a nice even 25.00 multiplier.  I had a look at the Intel docs and it shows that the X5675 also has access to a 26 multiplier.  CPU-Z confirms that your CPU supports a 26 multiplier.  This higher multiplier is only available if you have either C3 or C6 enabled and it is only used when 1 or 2 cores are active and the other cores are resting in C3 or C6.  Click on the C6 button and have a look in the ThrottleStop C State window to see if your CPU is spending any time in either of those two C states.  I am pretty sure you are going to see 0.0 for all of the entries which would confirm that C States are disabled in the bios, either accidentally or on purpose.  If you want to do some testing, re-boot, enable at least C3 in the bios and then once Windows has settled down, try running a 1 Thread TS Bench test.  While the CPU is loaded and this test is running, you should be seeing a multiplier higher than 25.00.  Look in the C State window while testing and you should see various cores going into C3 and or C6.



lexluthermiester said:


> Very nice utility!


You are welcome and thanks for doing some testing and posting some screenshots.  Now that I have access to some 6 core CPUs, I am thinking about making a special stretched version of  TS so I can see what all 12 threads are doing at the same time without having to scroll the data.  If I ever get around to doing that, I will post a download link in this thread.





Your CPU supports hyper threading which is 2 threads per core.  Your screenshot also shows this.  The first thread is the primary thread and it is spending 4.8% of its time in the C0 state with average multiplier of 24.47.  The second thread is spending 0.0% of its time in the C0 state so its average multiplier is only 16.78.  The next two multipliers, 24.55 and 14.80 also show the primary thread doing the work at almost full speed and the hyper thread is barely needed so it is only spending 0.5% in the C0 state at a lower multiplier and voltage.  Good little utility for the OCD types.


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## unclewebb (Mar 13, 2018)

I just played around with Intel XTU on the Dell T3500 and it was a complete bust.  No usable features and its monitoring capabilities were not working either.  Not only did it not work, it told me that, "The platform does not support overclocking". 



> Turbo Overclockable  False



I call bullsh!t.  ThrottleStop has been overclocking unlocked 1st Gen Core i processors like the Xeon W3680 on any motherboard for the last 8 years.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 14, 2018)

Someone has a T3500 at userbenchmark running 4.0GHz. I was told there was a Youtube video showing XTU was how it was done. But only a rumor. I didn't look into it. The overclock is displayed, while the 4.266 you ran just shows the base speed. So it seems there is something different about that OC, although I've seen TS display different benchmark results with it open, closed, or after restart.
 There's a mention of XTU/T3500 in comments here. But no Voltage control, and I guess turbo speed only.









Here's another one. 4GHz with throttling in P95. Some notes in comments about getting XTU running. HP Z400/ W3690. I think to get 4GHz they need the faster Xeon to start with.








There seems to be something going on with XTU but not much.


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## Susquehannock (Mar 14, 2018)

Good stuff. Rather surprised they have not affixed a fan to the heat sink. Really does make a big difference.

The W5590 arrived today so I have been doing some tests with the X5687 first to establish comparisons. This box has just been used for internet so far, so have not done the fan mod yet. The other T3500 with same CPU, front intake fans also at 100%, and with and a good 80mm fan on the sink runs about 15-18 C cooler in p-95 stress tests.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 14, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> Good stuff. Rather surprised they have not affixed a fan to the heat sink. Really does make a big difference.


True. A 90mm fan is easy to affix and fits perfectly. And you're right, works wonders.


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## unclewebb (Mar 14, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> There's a mention of XTU/T3500 in comments here. But no Voltage control...


It sounds like an older version of Intel XTU might work but the current version of XTU does not have any options available for the unlocked W3580 in my Dell T3500.  Maybe Intel disabled the overclocking options to keep their business Xeon customers happy.  

The second video clearly shows the ThrottleStop icon open in the taskbar.  He is probably using TS for overclocking.  The throttling is pretty obvious.  If he knew what he was doing, he would have used ThrottleStop to increase the turbo TDP / TDC limits.  You can run Prime95 Small FFTs at a constant 4000 MHz with zero throttling after you do that.

@Susquehannock - Sorry for scamming your heatsink pic and posting it on the [H]ard forum.  
I took a picture of my T3500 add on fan but it was filthy so I was kind of embarrassed to post it.  I always go for function first and worry about the details later.  It definitely made a big difference.  






The X5687 might start throttling when running Prime95.  The multiplier and 130 Watt TDP limit are both locked on the X series.  Looking forward to your W5590 testing.  If you have some fun, I might get one myself.


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## m&m's (Mar 14, 2018)

SpeedFan is pretty good to control the front fans speed but I get system hiccups when it's running. Do you guys have this issue with SpeedFan?


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## Retrorockit (Mar 14, 2018)

There are a certain number of people who own these CPUs and don't know they're unlocked. I came across the W3570 from someone who was surprised they had a 30X multi going. Then from there I stumbled on the W5580/90 reference. Only one  W5580 user at CPUz had a raised multi, none found for W5590. I never knew those CPUs existed.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 14, 2018)

m&m's said:


> Do you guys have this issue with SpeedFan?


Haven't used SpeedFan in years. It wasn't being updated and stopped working on a lot of boards and thus lost it's usefulness. Has it been updated recently?


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## m&m's (Mar 14, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> Haven't used SpeedFan in years. It wasn't being updated and stopped working on a lot of boards and thus lost it's usefulness. Has it been updated recently?



Wikipedia says the last update is from 2016. I would gladly use something else but it's the only software I've found which lets me control the front fans of the T3500.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 14, 2018)

m&m's said:


> Wikipedia says the last update is from 2016. I would gladly use something else but it's the only software I've found which lets me control the front fans of the T3500.


So it has been updated. Hmm, gonna have to try it!


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## Susquehannock (Mar 16, 2018)

Also wish there were another option for fan control. No issues with SpeedFan v4.52 (latest) in any of the T3500 ... except this last one which I am going to use as the overclocking guinea pig. Locks during opening and have to click the 'x' then 'wait for program to respond' at which time it finalizes loading. Seems to work fine after that. Just a bit irritating having to go through extra steps each time. Cannot figure why this is happening since this box is same OS and hardware as others. Might search through the error logs when time permits.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 17, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> You are welcome and thanks for doing some testing and posting some screenshots.


So more on that. I have been using every day now, and other than the weird display of multiplier values(which I understand the cause of), have not had any problems. This has been working on every system I've tested, including 3 laptops, 3 desktops and even a Windows 10 tablet(though it did get very warm).


Susquehannock said:


> Cannot figure why this is happening since this box is same OS and hardware as others.


You might have a wonky fan controller. That happens from time to time on that generation of Dell systems. Dell changed vendors for the fan controller chip(IIRC) in 2012 and the problem disappeared.


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## unclewebb (Mar 19, 2018)

Just saw an unlocked Xeon W3680 on EBay at a good price.  His asking price is the same as what I paid.  Check out my post near the top of page 4 of this thread.  These are a great addition to any locked motherboard like the Dell T3500 workstation.  If you do not get 4 GHz out of it, send it to me and you can have my 4 GHz certified W3680.


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## Susquehannock (Mar 19, 2018)

Did not know about fan controller chip vendor changes. Makes sense.

Curious why so many hex cores listed in these discussions. Are they better over clockers than quads?


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## agent_x007 (Mar 19, 2018)

Hex Cores = 32nm
Quad Cores = 45nm or 32nm (depends on model).
32nm is the same process Sandy Bridge class CPUs use.
Hex Cores can clock higher, have two cores more, can have 50% more L3 cache and hardware AES support. They can be cheap as well (however not all Xeons work in all LGA 1366 MBs).


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 19, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> Curious why so many hex cores listed in these discussions. Are they better over clockers than quads?


It depends on silicon lottery of course, but from my experiences quads do a bit better at OCing, but only by a slight margin. Then again, I haven't been going to extremes like some users have.


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## unclewebb (Mar 19, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> Curious why so many hex cores listed in these discussions.


This thread is about overclocking processors that are installed in motherboards that do not have any overclocking features.  If you do not have access to increasing the FSB or BCLK in the bios then you need to find a CPU with an unlocked multiplier so you can increase that.  For Core i socket 1366 processors, you will need to get either an Extreme processor which has an unlocked multiplier or one of the upper level W series Xeons that also have an unlocked multiplier.

I have tried a handful of different 1366 processors and based on that and looking around the web at overclocking results, I think the 32nm processors are better overclockers compared to the original 45nm processors.  There are some nice 4 core 32nm X series Xeons but as far as I know, all of these have a locked multiplier so no overclocking on motherboards like the T3500.  The 4 core Extreme processors for this socket are 45nm.  Those tend to be significantly more expensive compared to the unlocked 6 core W3680 / W3690.

I have not done any testing but the W5580 / W5590 are believed to have an unlocked multiplier.  These are both 4 core CPUs but they are built on the older 45nm technology so on a locked motherboard without voltage control, you will probably not be able to overclock these as far as an unlocked W3680 / W3690.  

In the name of science, I think I will go buy a W5580 series to see if it is unlocked or not and to see how far it can be overclocked.

As for the older Core 2 technology, one of the QX series with an unlocked multiplier is the way to go.  CPUs like the X9000, X9100, QX6700, QX6800, QX6850 or the QX9650 would be nice if you can find one at a reasonable price.  I have one of those too.  I like this old stuff.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 19, 2018)

It will be interesting to see if the W35xx, and W55xx unlocked Xeons can overclock as well as the QX6xxx, and QX9xxx CPUs. Most of the OEM computers that support those were DDR2 machines.
The i7 Extremes supported DDR3-1066, The unlocked Xeons DDR3-1333, and Hyperthreading Which the QX never had. The W5570/5580 have the added distinction of being unlocked 2x CPU, and also have the massive RAM capacity that server CPUs typically enjoy. Another question is whether 6 cores give ant adavantage in gaming vs. 4 cores.


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## unclewebb (Mar 19, 2018)

The W5580 looks interesting.  It supports DDR3-1333 memory.

https://ark.intel.com/products/37113/Intel-Xeon-Processor-W5580-8M-Cache-3_20-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI

If it has an unlocked multiplier, a pair of them on a dual CPU socket board would be a lot of fun.  8 cores, 16 threads, perhaps 4.0 GHz.  The ultimate retro rig.

I just tossed one in my EBay basket so someday I will be able to see what these are all about.


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## Susquehannock (Mar 19, 2018)

Appreciate the explanation on these Xeons. Things have changed greatly since my days over clocking the snot out of low volt unlocked AMD T-breds. Fun times indeed.

Have W5590 in hand, and Panaflo fan to attach to a nice fresh lapped heatsink. With any luck I will be reporting back at 4ghz.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 19, 2018)

Do you have any confirmed instances of newer CPUs being TS overclocked. I know TS supports these CPUs but a lot of people are skeptical about the overclocking aspect specifically. Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, and Haswells. Even though LGA1366 is just as fast there seem to be a lot of "newer is better" mentality out there. I have no idea where to even start looking for unlocked Xeons in those "socket of the month" CPUs.

I did forget to mention the gorilla in the room. The 45nm 1366s did have the huge advantage of 3 channel memory support.


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## unclewebb (Mar 19, 2018)

Some of the unlocked Sandy Bridge and up K series can be overclocked using ThrottleStop but these may be limited if a manufacturer has set a lock bit in the bios to disable this feature.  I have not done any research on the 2nd Gen and up Xeon CPUs to see if any of them have unlocked multipliers.  I wouldn't be surprised if they did.  Sometimes the biggest difference between a Xeon CPU and a consumer grade CPU is the logo on the box that Intel sells it in.  In other words, they are all produced on the same assembly line and are all virtually identical.  Once a piece of silicon is manufactured, it is simple for Intel to program an on chip EPROM so the CPU knows if it is a Xeon, an Extreme, a K series or a regular CPU.  They do not have separate buildings that only turn out Xeon CPUs or unlocked CPUs.

I know the original 4th Gen Haswell are all unlocked.  The trick is that you will need to use a very early microcode to take advantage of this feature.  With later microcode updates, only the K series will remain unlocked.  Here is an example of a 4th Gen mobile CPU at 4900 MHz.

https://hwbot.org/submission/3091123_0.0_cpu_frequency_core_i7_4700mq_4900_mhz

This is not some top secret engineering sample.  It is a fully locked CPU just like all of the rest of the MQ series.  With the early microcode installed, the multiplier and MHz can be adjusted sky high.  Not many people took advantage of this trick when it was discovered.  Maybe people will be interested a few years from now when 4th Gen hardware is cheaper.


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## agent_x007 (Mar 19, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> It will be interesting to see if the W35xx, and W55xx unlocked Xeons can overclock as well as the QX6xxx, and QX9xxx CPUs. Most of the OEM computers that support those were DDR2 machines.
> The i7 Extremes supported DDR3-1066, The unlocked Xeons DDR3-1333, and Hyperthreading Which the QX never had. The W5570/5580 have the added distinction of being unlocked 2x CPU, and also have the massive RAM capacity that server CPUs typically enjoy. Another question is whether 6 cores give ant adavantage in gaming vs. 4 cores.


QX6xxx can't clock as good as QX9xxx or W35xx/W55xx because 45nm is simply a much better node for clocking.
All 45nm CPUs clock simmilary (up to a point), however there is that "silicon lottery" thing and "core revision" going on. You must keep in mind a basic fact : Bigger CPUs can't clock as high as smaller ones (on the same technology process [nm]).
True, Yorkfield is bigger transistor wise, BUT it has double core design (there are two small dies under IHS).
In Nehalems case (LGA 1366 45nm, example : "Bloomfield"), you have only one die, with a L3 cache, Hyper Threading, IMC and double QPI bus (one link disabled for desktop) - all attached on top of "normal" stuff present in Yorkfield.
Because ot this, Nehalems usually can't clock as high as 45nm Xeon's from older generation.


Retrorockit said:


> Do you have any confirmed instances of newer CPUs being TS overclocked. I know TS supports these CPUs but a lot of people are skeptical about the overclocking aspect specifically. Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, and Haswells. *Even though LGA1366 is just as fast there seem to be a lot of "newer is better" mentality out there*. I have no idea where to even start looking for unlocked Xeons in those "socket of the month" CPUs.
> 
> I did forget to mention the gorilla in the room. The 45nm 1366s did have the huge advantage of 3 channel memory support.


Reason for it is simple : At that point (SB/IB), MB manufacturers Windows OC software got "good enough" and 3-rd party OC programs aren't needed that much (at least in majority of cases).
Triple Channel is present on all LGA 1366 CPUs, true. It adds 50% of bandwidth to any frequency your DRAM is using (vs. LGA 115x CPU).
However, it can't make AVX instructions work on Nehalem class CPUs, and getting LGA 1366 to clock 5GHz is hard, while Sandy can do it easily.
Also, clocking 12GB+ RAM over 2GHz with Triple Channel isn't "easy", and at that point you probably have to decrease UnCore frequency (which decreases IMC/L3 efficiency, which in turn wastes that added bandwidth).

PS. Throttlestop multiplier adjustment works on my 4960X, but without Vcore control (I'm using it with AI Suite installed and active) 
Frequency calculator is messed up (I'm using Win 10 with Spectre/Meltdown patches active).


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## Retrorockit (Mar 19, 2018)

The RAM clock doesn't change with TS multiplier overclocking. For better or for worse you're stuck at 1333FSB 3 channel. Some nice latency numbers are about all you can hope for.
 The $20 Nehalems are kind of a curiosity compared to the 32nm Hexas. But at that price it will be interesting to see how the gaming benchmark score at 4 threads and 3 channel DDR3 1333 compares to the QX9650 Etc. Another difference is the heatspreader is larger on 1366. I've seen Intel list it as supporting 230W intermittent rating. Of course there's more stuff in there so who knows. The LGA775 are no longer much use for gaming. The Nehalem Xeons ?????


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## Susquehannock (Mar 21, 2018)

Looks like this W5590 is locked. Other than changing default multiplier from 25 to 26T there seem to be no other changes available. Unless I am missing something.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 21, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> The LGA775 are no longer much use for gaming.


That depends on the game. The really demanding games of the last year or so will give the upper end C2Q's a problem. But older games or even new games that don't stress a system too hard will still run well as long as good GPU is used.


Susquehannock said:


> Looks like this W5590 is locked. Other than changing default multiplier from 25 to 26T there seem to be no other changes available. Unless I am missing something.


That's still a decent performance boost as all cores can now run at their maximum.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 21, 2018)

I found a W5580 runninhg 42x133 fsb  at CPUZ. I never found a 5590 though.
http://valid.x86.fr/81teia
There are some settings, and limits that need to be raised in TS. On page 3 of this thread is a walkthrough for these CPUs. Also there is an UNLOCK button. It says what it will do, not what it's doing. It says LOCK when the CPU is unlocked, UNLOCK when the CPU is locked. There are a few things that need resetting after that. There is no VCORE setting, it's all very indirect. It's not as straightforward as LGA775 was. Intels scheme was to let you raise multi/power limits but they retain throttling control related to temperature.

I can't find the article about the unlocked W3570/80 that said the W5580/90 were unlocked also. If I find it I'll link to it. Just the article, and 1 42x133 multiplier overclock.
I found a thread on XTU overclocking an HP Z400 at Overclockers.com.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...n-w3680-cpu-with-intel-extreme-tuning-utility

I found an article on  the W55xx CPUs that says RAM speed varies with number of 3 channel sockets populated on the MB. It also shows performance relative to harperstown Xeons, But FBDIMMs were part fo that situation also.
https://techreport.com/review/16656/intel-xeon-w5580-processors


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## unclewebb (Mar 21, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I found a W5580 runninhg 42x133 fsb at CPUZ.


There is only that single CPU-Z post showing a W5580 with a high multiplier so I am not yet convinced.  That validation shows a couple of things that do not look right.  It shows the Min multiplier as 12 which is right and it shows the Max multiplier as 26 but the current multiplier is 42.  Either 26 is not the maximum multiplier or the current multiplier is not 42.  The next thing that is not quite right is the CPU is running at 5612 MHz but the Core Voltage is only showing 1.216 Volts.  That is definitely not right.  You need way more than 1.2 V to run stable enough for a CPU-Z validation at 5612 MHz.

The ThrottleStop LOCK / UNLOCK button is only available when you have an unlocked Core 2 Duo Extreme CPU.  If the W5580 / W5590 is unlocked, a person would need to click on the TRL button and would need to increase the turbo limits higher.  This previous post in this thread shows what the Turbo Ratio Limits (TRL) window looks like when running on a Core i processor.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/throttlestop-overclocking-desktop-pcs.235975/post-3799652

If those triangular shaped adjusters are grayed out then that means this feature is not available.

I will do some testing when my W5580, $20 special from China arrives. 

W5590 Default Multipliers
Turbo Boost Disabled - 25
1 Core Active - 27
2 Cores Active - 26
3 Cores Active - 26
4 Cores Active - 26

W5580 Default Multipliers
Turbo Boost Disabled - 24
1 Core Active - 26
2 Cores Active - 25
3 Cores Active - 25
4 Cores Active - 25


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## Upowa (Mar 22, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> I know the original 4th Gen Haswell are all unlocked.  The trick is that you will need to use a very early microcode to take advantage of this feature.  With later microcode updates, only the K series will remain unlocked.



Hello, new here. I have a Dell T3500 and Supermicro X8STi with no means to BCLK overclock. The T3500 had two different clock generators, I was hoping to get the one I could change with setfsb but was sent the other board. The X8sti has tweakable clockgen but seems pretty locked down beyond a couple of mhz. My only option would be to drop in an unlocked cpu, which is how I found this thread. Fortunately, the 4 core xeon nehalem cpus are cheap these days. I still looking for an oem lga1366 board that can blck overclock because I don't want to pay over $150 bucks for one that can. And I already have a 6 core westmere and 2 nehalems.

Getting to uclewebb's point that the haswell are unlocked which they aren't. It is in that one particular case with the i7 mobile cpu that has a bug to allows for higher multipliers. The other haswell are locked, but are able to get all cores working @ max turbo mode with an earlier microcode. I've actually done this for a few desktop haswell with microcode 07 or earlier. I guess it works on mobile haswells as well, the i5 seems to have their own set of mobile microcode. The i7 hq mq cpus seem to use desktop microcode. That bugs seems to only work with haswell that have overclockable turbo bins. H-series desktop haswell boards can be overclock through bios modding as well.

hwbot example E5-1650 v2 (ok not haswell but still)

hwbot example i7-4700MQ

Also, you'll need a motherboard that comes with an amibios to mod which is easiest way to change the microcode. You can the microcode in a bios through hex editor if you know what your looking for. An external bios programmer comes in handy as well in case you mess up and internal flashers aren't always reliable as bios can be lock in certain areas. Also, laptop motherboard don't come with components to sustain such high frequencies that will sustain high cpu loads, you'll most likely fry the vrms if you aren't careful. Overclocking the mobile haswell i7 will be my next project when I can afford to.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 22, 2018)

The W5580 in 2nd place shows 0V. so CPUZ seems to have an issue sometimes. The Uncore speeds differ between the first 2 results, and seems to reflect the multiplier overclock vs the fsb overclock in that the fsb one is higher. They're both at 20xfsb. The one Dell further down the list has no Voltage at all. At that speed it could be dry ice changing the resistance and allowing lower Voltage. IDK much about that though, just guessing.
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...0202020202020573535383020204020332e323047487a

I found this thread on unlocked Xeons. They seem to start with Westmeres/ Gulftowns, no Nehalems mentioned. But lots of newer ones.
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/xeons-with-an-open-multiplier.15983/

I noticed a couple of the top results on the CPUZ W3570 chart are identified as W3565. Maybe another unlocked Haswell? At Ark Intel all I see different is lower Voltage and slower memory speed.
https://ark.intel.com/products/39721/Intel-Xeon-Processor-W3565-8M-Cache-3_20-GHz-4_80-GTs-Intel-QPI
https://ark.intel.com/products/39722/Intel-Xeon-Processor-W3570-8M-Cache-3_20-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI


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## Susquehannock (Mar 22, 2018)

The triangle adjusters in both TRL and TPL are all greyed out so this W5590 is definitely locked. Even so, changing the multiplier to 26T did give a nice little performance boost. 13.297 to 13.055 in TS bench.

You have inspired me to try TS with some of my W3565 that are collecting dust.

[edit]
Regarding heat .... have only been able to run a few Xeon 1366 chips so far. W3565, W5590, and X5687. All 130w TDP. In this very limited sampling, seems the 45nm chips run about 15-20c hotter under 100% load than the 32nm.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 22, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> seems the 45nm chips run about 15-20c hotter under 100% load than the 32nm.


That's about on par. The 32nm CPU's run cooler as a rule compared to 45nm parts running at the same speeds.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 22, 2018)

The claim that W5580/90 were unlocked was made in an article by professional hardware testers. The article was about the single core W3570/80. Maybe the tester didn't  take into account that they may have received ES (engineering sample) CPUs. The W5580 at CPUZ is listed as a retail CPU. Hmmmmmmm.
 I was looking at a W3570 club and they made much ado about batch numbers. But I didn't see anything related to some batches being locked, or unlocked. Just which ones overclocked better.

I found this Throttlestop aware thread at Dell community forums. He lists the usual unlocked Xeons W3680,W3690,W3570,W3580, and further states the W5580,W5590 are not unlocked.
https://www.dell.com/community/Desk...compatible-processor-list/td-p/4101387/page/3
 I finally rediscovered the article that got me looking into the 2 CPU unlocked question.
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/review/1531023/intel-xeon-w3580-cpu-asus-p6t7-ws-mainboard


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## unclewebb (Mar 22, 2018)

Spec wise, the W3570 is almost identical to the Core i7-965 Extreme and the W3580 is almost identical to the Core i7-975 Extreme.  Both of the Extreme processors have an unlocked multiplier so it makes sense that the W3570 / W3580 also have an unlocked multiplier.  The main difference is the rated memory multiplier available which is higher for the Xeons.  If these CPUs are all unlocked, the rated memory speed doesn't really matter because with the right bios, you should be able to adjust the memory multiplier to whatever you like.

For the 6 core CPUs, the W3680 and the Core i7-980X Extreme look like twins on paper and so do the W3690 and the Core i7-990X Extreme.  This is typical Intel.  They try to create multiple models out of a single design.  

The Core i7-970 and W3670 are another set of twins.  The Core i7-970 has a locked multiplier and so does the W3670 that I tested.



Retrorockit said:


> The claim that W5580/90 were unlocked...


I think if these 2 were unlocked, there would be more evidence posted somewhere on the internet.  I plan to put my new W5580 in to both my X58 motherboards to see if either one shows it as unlocked.  If not, it has a nice high multiplier so some BCLK overclocking should allow it to show its stuff.  



Susquehannock said:


> changing the multiplier to 26T did give a nice little performance boost


The T stands for turbo mode so that bumps up the multiplier from 25 to 26.  When turbo is enabled, you need to enable C3 or C6 in the bios so the CPU can access the 27 multiplier.  A 1 thread TS Bench test is useful to see if your CPU is using the 27 multiplier or not.  



Susquehannock said:


> seems the 45nm chips run about 15-20c hotter under 100% load than the 32nm


That's what I remember when the 32nm first came out.  Big drop in heat which allowed easier and higher overclocking.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 23, 2018)

Upowa said:


> Hello, new here. I have a Dell T3500 and Supermicro X8STi with no means to BCLK overclock. The T3500 had two different clock generators, I was hoping to get the one I could change with setfsb but was sent the other board.


 There were 4 different T3500 MBs. I have no idea what the differences were, I've just seen that many different part#s looking at them online. What PLLs have you seen?  SetFSB doesn't do much without increased Voltage, and the way you get that is Throttlestop and an unlocked CPU. But FSB changes disrupt so many other things you won't have control over that I consider not doing it an advantage. But a lot of people are comfortable with it so to each his own.


unclewebb said:


> I think if these 2 were unlocked, there would be more evidence posted somewhere on the internet. I plan to put my new W5580 in to both my X58 motherboards to see if either one shows it as unlocked. If not, it has a nice high multiplier so some BCLK overclocking should allow it to show its stuff.


  When overclocking Dells there are 2 things I've learned. Ignore everyone who says it can't be done. The other is try every damn thing you can think of. I've always been amazed that everyone at OCN is nuts over X5670 CPUs and ignores the W3680/90 unlocked versions. I've never even heard of the W5580/90 mentioned anywhere. The first thing I did read was they were unlocked. 42X133 @CPUZ made quite an impression also. But I guess the Nehalems get  overlooked in favor of the 6 cores. Too bad they didn't make 32nm 4 cores in LGA1366.


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## unclewebb (Mar 23, 2018)

The guys on OCN usually have boards that allow BCLK overclocking so for them, the X5670 is fine.  I prefer the W3680.  It is the same price or slightly cheaper on EBay and the unlocked multiplier in the W3680 is more flexible.  The X5670 has a higher memory limit but 24GB is not going to limit the majority of W3680 desktop users.

I had a look on HWBOT at all of the W5580 / W5590 high scores and I only found one CPU with a higher than default multiplier.

http://hwbot.org/submission/872171_v2_v3_cpu_frequency_xeon_w5580_4793_mhz/

If you look a little closer at this entry you will see that it is not actually a W5580.  Intel writes CPU model information directly to each CPU and this information is displayed in the CPU-Z Specification box.  This box shows model 000 which is typical for an early ES (Engineering Sample).  When CPU-Z is not sure, it will use a look up table and try to guess what model a CPU really is.  This information is displayed in the CPU-Z Processor Name box at the top.  That is the opinion of CPU-Z but it is not Intel's opinion.  Early ES processors can have characteristics of 2 different future retail processors but may not be exactly the same as any retail processor.  Calling one of these things a W5580 is wrong.

If the retail W5580 / W5590 have an unlocked multiplier, it is very unusual that there is not a single legit entry on HWBOT showing this capability.

Edit - For comparison, 9 out of the top 10 HWBOT entries for the W3680 show evidence of an unlocked multiplier.  The top 6 are all over 6000 MHz.  Who wouldn't want one of these things?  Not a single X5670 is over 6000 MHz.  Why?  Its locked multiplier requires a sky high BCLK which is not possible.  Unlocked multiplier FTW!


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## Upowa (Mar 23, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> There were 4 different T3500 MBs... What PLLs have you seen? SetFSB doesn't do much without increased Voltage, and the way you get that is Throttlestop and an unlocked CPU. But FSB changes disrupt so many other things you won't have control over that I consider not doing it an advantage. But a lot of people are comfortable with it so to each his own.



What bclk overclocking allows for is to overclock the memory as well, which is the only way to go beyond 1333mhz. The timing for other components are unchanged AFIK. The T3500 I have came with a SLG8XP519T clock generator which has no clock lookup table, I was hoping to get the one with CV183APAG clockgen. I've had success with a Dell Inspiron 580 lga1156 bclk overclocking it beyond 166mhz with the CV183APAG clockgen. There are a few lga1366 boards with a tweakable clockgen including the Z400, lenovo s20 (only 1 of 2 varients), & the Dell Studio 435mt/9100 which seems to have the most promise for bclk overclocking. Getting 4ghz is pretty easy on most CPUs bumping up the FSB to 166mhz.

What is frustrating is that the X8sti board seems to not allow for bclk overclocking but it should be fully capable of doing. I even went as far as pin modding the PLL, and no go there as well for the T3500 or X8sti. I may find some more luck with the other lga1366 boards when I can get my hands on them. I think these bios can be modded to allow for higher multipliers with an unlock cpu. You can change the default the turbo multiplier in the bios to your desired setting and boot up with it, possibly. I'll have to see if that is possible once I get a unlocked cpu. Not sure what to go with a W3670 or a W5580, the latter is a few bucks more. Maybe the W5580 to see if it is in fact unlocked or not. I have a dual cpu lga1366 board I've yet to play with as well.

Also, Anyone have any experience with the Dell T5500 boards? They seem to have a tweakable PLL. Are they a bit better quality than the T3500? Next month, I'll be able to get another board to test out.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 23, 2018)

It's looking like the W5580/90 aren't going to be unlocked. I did see reports of unlocked ES versions so that's probably where the rumor got started. Since the W3680/90 are routinely ignored I thought maybe the W5580/90 were also. I guess they're just ignored for being Nehalems.



Upowa said:


> What bclk overclocking allows for is to overclock the memory as well, which is the only way to go beyond 1333mhz. The timing for other components are unchanged AFIK. The T3500 I have came with a SLG8XP519T clock generator which has no clock lookup table, I was hoping to get the one with CV183APAG clockgen. I've had success with a Dell Inspiron 580 lga1156 bclk overclocking it beyond 166mhz with the CV183APAG clockgen. There are a few lga1366 boards with a tweakable clockgen including the Z400, lenovo s20 (only 1 of 2 varients), & the Dell Studio 435mt/9100 which seems to have the most promise for bclk overclocking. Getting 4ghz is pretty easy on most CPUs bumping up the FSB to 166mhz.



The SLG8XP519T is what mine has. I think it's shared with the Optiplex 760, and I've seen reports that there are a couple other compatible PLLs that can access settings in SetFSB. The suggestion was to load some other PLL  and see what reports the FSB correctly and try the settings. I guess the theory is if itread correctly it can write correctly also. Throttlestop overclocking doesn't change the FSB at all. It unlocks the multiplier, and Voltage. This allows the use of MB that have locked PLL chips, and no BIOS options, like the T3500 which would otherwise be useless. It also produces very stable and useful overclocks. My Dimension E520 with a PLL locked to 266fsb, and no BIOS  options was #2 at CPUZ for almost 2 tears with a QX6800 at just under 4GHz. with aTS overclock. if it hadn't died from capacitor rot I would downclock the PLL and add another multiplier and tweak it a little higher to get back a spot or 2. But I don't feel like building another 12 year old computer right now. Have you tried Throttlestop and a confirmed unlocked CPU yet? It's nice to know the Z400 has some options for the FSB crowd. The T3500 is a tough nut to crack for FSB overclocking, and a piece of cake for TS method.
As Unclewebb stated above it's not uncommon to see much higher overclocks with unlocked CPUs. That can make up for a few Mhz of RAM timing. Of course some people will want both



Upowa said:


> Also, Anyone have any experience with the Dell T5500 boards? They seem to have a tweakable PLL. Are they a bit better quality than the T3500? Next month, I'll be able to get another board to test out.


The T5500 has an optional riser for a 2nd CPU, and added memory slots on a daughter board. This requires a 2nd 8 pin CPU cable. They may share some PSUs with the T3500 but need different modular cables depending on CPU,GPU configurations. Because of dual CPU support they aren't X58 chipset. I have no first hand with those, just what I gather from window shopping. Might be a good OC platform in single CPU mode. Reading the service manual at Dell Support can let you know about any other oddball features it may have.


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## Upowa (Mar 23, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Too bad they didn't make 32nm 4 cores in LGA1366.


In fact they did:
"Westmere-EP" (32 nm) Efficient Performance



Retrorockit said:


> Have you tried Throttlestop and a confirmed unlocked CPU yet?



I have tried Throttlestop, but haven't been able to utilize it as much as I would hope for. I really only have one unlocked haswell K processor on a board with overclocking in bios. All other cpu's I have are locked so FSB overclocking is essential like with skylake cpus and everything before sandy bridge. Throttlestop seem to be most useful with unlocked cpu's on oem boards. I definitely would like to build a E5-1650 v2 system when those prices come down a bit because the ryzen 1600 builds are roughly the same price. That is kind of why I'm playing with these older system with the performance matching newer system at a third of the cost.

I'm more interested in the hardware in seeing how much performance I can get out of them. I'm not an extreme overclocker by any means. I'll get an unlock cpu next month whether it be the W3570 or the W5580 4-core nehalem and see what these boards can do. I'm still in search for a lga1366 oem board with fsb overclocking even when the unlock cpus aren't that expensive. I'll report back with my findings as soon as I get a chance.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 23, 2018)

While aftermarket PSUs can be used in these Dells you need to be sure they have enough 5V. and 3.3V. power. Check this on your original PSU label. EVGA has some that have enough power there.


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## Susquehannock (Mar 23, 2018)

Always wanted to run a T5500 board. received one (bottom image) from same source as these T3500 boxes. Could not get it to post, sadly. Probably why it was headed for the dumpster.

Fits in the T3500 box perfectly. Besides slot sizes and CPU riser they are quite similar, with one key difference. Instead of X58 the T5500 is based on the Intel 5520 chipset. And unlike the T3500, they will accept buffered/registered ECC RAM which are cheap and plentiful. 48gb would be nice for video editing.

[edit]
Aftermarket PSU do indeed fit into the T3500. Have replaced with 550w Seasonic G series on occasion. Just have to bend the upper retaining tabs on case ceiling flat so it will sit flush. Only concern was smaller value on 5-vsb rail (2.5A vs 4.0A). Which as I understand is used for power in standby mode in a networking environment. Being a gaming box it was not an issue.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 23, 2018)

The W5580 is turning out to be a locked CPU. A comment in an article, and a CPUZ  multiplier overclock got me looking at it but it's not true for retail CPUs.

In the X58 Xeon club at OCN a lot of people are getting 48GB to run on X58 boards with 1366 Xeons. I'm not sure if it's just the dual CPU Xeons that allow this or if the unlocked W3xxx can do it also.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 23, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> Always wanted to run a T5500 board. received one (bottom image) from same source as these T3500 boxes. Could not get it to post, sadly. Probably why it was headed for the dumpster.
> 
> Fits in the T3500 box perfectly. Besides slot sizes and CPU riser they are quite similar, with one key difference. Instead of X58 the T5500 is based on the Intel 5520 chipset. And unlike the T3500, they will accept buffered/registered ECC RAM which are cheap and plentiful. 48gb would be nice for video editing.


Thank for sharing that. If I ever need a replacement for one of mine I know there are alternatives.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 24, 2018)

Upowa said:


> In fact they did:
> "Westmere-EP" (32 nm) Efficient Performance


Thanks for that info. Next question would be are any of them unlocked? The dual core X5698 @ 4.4Ghz looks interesting for a T5500 project.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-2-Inte...re-12M-Processor-CPU-/172882079734?rmvSB=true
 I may have confused E5xxx with E5-xxxx series and overlooked them.

I suppose being dual CPU unlocked is unlikely. The X56xx versions look like 6 cores at first glance. Probably not much there for TS overclocking. But should produce good results in an fsb situation.
I found this list of mostly ES CPUs
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/intel-ships-a-4-4ghz-xeon-x5698.html


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 24, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Thanks for that info. Next question would be are any of them unlocked? The dual core X5698 @ 4.4Ghz looks interesting for a T5500 project.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-2-Inte...re-12M-Processor-CPU-/172882079734?rmvSB=true
> I may have confused E5xxx with E5-xxxx series and overlooked them.
> 
> ...


I don't know. If we look at the raw numbers, a 6 core at 3.33 or 3.46 seems like it would be the better choice in most situations than a dual core at 4.4. The only scenario I see for that CPU doing better is in progams that don't/can't use more than 2 cores, like much older software and games.


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## Susquehannock (Mar 24, 2018)

As expected, both the W3565 that I tried were locked. As with the W5590, TS did allow for one extra multiplier  - from 24 to 25T.

So to summarize, I have tried five Xeon 1366 in these Dell T3500 thus far. (Windows 10, A17 BIOS, board revision '09KPNV')
Two W3565, one W5590, and two X5687.

- - W3565 = locked. TS allows multi change from 24 to 25T. TS bench (32M) = 14.106 @25T - 3.33ghz
- - W5590 = locked. TS allows multi change from 25 to 26T. TS bench (32M) = 13.055 @26T - 3.42ghz
- - X5687 = locked. Max multi = 28T. TS allows no higher setting than normal. TS bench (32M) = 12.019 @28T - 3.72ghz


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 24, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> As expected, both the W3565 that I tried were locked. As with the W5590, TS did allow for one extra multiplier  - from 24 to 25T.
> 
> So to summarize, I have tried five Xeon 1366 in these Dell T3500 thus far. (Windows 10, A17 BIOS, board revision '09KPNV')
> Two W3565, one W5590, and two X5687.
> ...


Still those are decent boosts for locked down chipsets and CPU's.

Got curious after reading through some of these posts and based on the information found through official sources, I don't think any of the retail/oem Xeon 771 or 1366 CPU's were unlocked. The only references I could find to unlocked Xeons were engineering samples. The only officially released unlocked CPU's I could verify exist for those two sockets are the the extreme edition CPU's in the consumer lines. It seems that unlocked Xeons didn't officially exist until socket 2011. While this kinda makes sense, it is still a bit surprising. Someone do correct me if I've missed something somewhere..


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## Retrorockit (Mar 25, 2018)

The W3680,W3690 (aka i7-990X,i7-980X) are unlocked. The W3570, W3580 (aka i7-965 I7-975)  are supposed to be also. Official sources don't list them. OCN X58 Xeon club and others mention them. The 2x cpu W5580,W5590 was a false report, and a W5580 CPUZ 42x133 that was probably an ES chip. I haven't found any 32nm Quads that are unlocked, or 2x cpu except some ES reports.
Here's Unclewebbs t3500 W3680 at 32x133


unclewebb said:


> I think you previously mentioned the UserBenchmark so I bumped the multi in my T3500 - W3680 up to 32 for a balls to the wall run at 4266 MHz. The UserBenchmark is mostly a light duty bench for a hyper threaded 6 core CPU so it had no problem completing it. The UserBenchmark seems to like my W3680.
> 
> http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/7540614



I've just about got the metal work done on my T3500. The 10 chrome heat pipes sticking out through holes in the the cover look pretty cool! The 150x50mm fan housing  just needed a 6-32 nut superglued to the bottom of the case to mount it. The chipset finsink got chopped up and is now on the VRMs, the Dell CPU cooler is now on the chipset. i don't know if the T3500 has the Dell BIOS issue the T3400 has that keeps AMD GPUs from running. My choices are Dell HD6990 ( +HD6970 later!), 2x R9-285, R9-Fury Nano, or GTX760, . So Unclewebb got 4.266GHz with a stock cooler.  I guess it's time to find out how fast Intel will let a lapped W3690 run with a big air cooler.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 25, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> The W3680, W3690 (aka i7-990X,i7-980X) are unlocked.


It seems likely Intel didn't intentionally unlock them. May have just been an overlooked detail that was never adjusted.


Retrorockit said:


> Official sources don't list them.


Documentation is surprising sparse on the matter of unlocked Xeons, from official sources. There is a wide variety of opinions elsewhere.


Retrorockit said:


> I've just about got the metal work done on my T3500. The 10 chrome heat pipes sticking out through holes in the the cover look pretty cool! The 150x50mm fan housing just needed a 6-32 nut superglued to the bottom of the case to mount it. The chipset finsink got chopped up and is now on the VRMs, the Dell CPU cooler is now on the chipset.


Wow. Pictures?


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## Retrorockit (Mar 25, 2018)

I guess it's time for a clarification about TS  overclocking. It's a byproduct of laptop undervolting. It's 100% dependent on unlocked CPUs.  So it's important to discover them. We're all learning as we go.
Unclewebb wrote the Throttlestop program. I've made a hobby of overclocking Dells but mostly LGA775 BTX computers so far, and Susqehannock has been modding the Dell T3500s for a while.
The i7 Extremes are a given. ASFAIK if it boots it will TS overclock. There are no official unlocked Xeons. I suspect that they were relying on the locked BIOS on workstations to prevent overclocking. The unlocked 1366 Xeons all support 3x1333 RAM, the i7s are 3x1066.
The Dell T3500 has become the common ground for this. Cheap, easy to find, almost impossible to overclock otherwise, and capable of producing a worthwhile result.
The bottom line is a Dell T3500, a W3680 Xeon, and an 80mm fan on the CPU cooler, with Throttlestop software can produce a 4.266Ghz 6 core 12 thread computer in about a 1/2 hour.<$150.
The unlocked Nehalem Xeons are little known and a bit of a mystery. Will an overclocked W3570 45nm 4 core improve on the X5687 32nm locked 4 coreCPU?
The question of the W5580 was worth looking into because it would be only the 2nd unlocked SMP processor ever. It looks like it isn't going to work out.


lexluthermiester said:


> Wow. Pictures?


The last time I took photos I got my camera and tripod, set up decent lighting etc. and the files were too big to post here. I need to adjust the heatpipe holes a little and touch up some bare metal in a few spots. But I'll get some pics. up. At OCN I have an album. What's the best way to get photos up in here?


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 25, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> What's the best way to get photos up in here?


Just attach them straight into the comment. If you use jpg as a container and use 90% all pics should stay under the file size limit.


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## Susquehannock (Mar 25, 2018)

You can also open the image in 'Paint' and change pixel size. I usually go for 1280.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 25, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> I don't know. If we look at the raw numbers, a 6 core at 3.33 or 3.46 seems like it would be the better choice in most situations than a dual core at 4.4. The only scenario I see for that CPU doing better is in progams that don't/can't use more than 2 cores, like much older software and games.


 I missed your reply on the 2 core Xeon. It's not very interesting by itself, but it is an SMP processor, so 2 of them on a T5500 would produce a 4.4GHz 4 core 8 thread machine. But $850 for 2 damaged ES chips is ridiculous. It's just interesting that Intel was looking at 4.4-4.6 GHz speeds for these, and actually offered one for sale (OEM only).


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## Morph96070 (Mar 26, 2018)

So, I've been using TS for a while due to a bugged BD Prochot sensor.   I rebooted today, and can't launch TS  (winring0.dll won't load).  Stuck at 1600Mhz..   event viewer shows that "

The WinRing0_1_2_0 service failed to start due to the following error:
The system cannot find the path specified.


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## unclewebb (Mar 26, 2018)

Morph96070 said:


> The WinRing0_1_2_0 service failed to start


Has anything changed recently?  A Windows 10 update or maybe an update to an antivirus program you are running.  What operating system and version are you using?  What antivirus program? 

Some users have got around problems like this by running Open Hardware Monitor first, before starting ThrottleStop.

http://openhardwaremonitor.org/

It uses the same WinRing0 driver but it is hidden within a file in that program which seems to trick Windows into letting it run.

I am using Windows 10 and Windows 7 and Avast antivirus and ThrottleStop is still starting up for me.

Sometimes if your computer crashes (BSOD) while the WinRing0 driver is open, Windows will block this driver so it no longer works.


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## Morph96070 (Mar 26, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> Has anything changed recently?  A Windows 10 update or maybe an update to an antivirus program you are running.  What operating system and version are you using?  What antivirus program?
> 
> Some users have got around problems like this by running Open Hardware Monitor first, before starting ThrottleStop.
> 
> ...




Using Windows 10, and only running the Built in Security.   Didn't run into a BSOD, but was getting some stuttering, nothing else shows up in event viewer,  only using TS to disable BD prochot (bad sensor on the mobo).

THANK YOU SO MUCH..   OHM took care of the issue, got TS set up


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## m&m's (Mar 27, 2018)

Well guys I have bad news about my T3500, I over tightened the CPU cooler and broke one of the screws. I can still use it but when it broke it also left a mark on the motherboard (some of the tracings on the board around the screw is gone to say the least) and it seems like the tracings in question were used by the DIMM slot 3 because it's dead now. So I'm running 8GB on dual channel now...

I highly doubt I'll buy a W3680 now so I wont be using Throttlestop soon.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 27, 2018)

m&m's said:


> Well guys I have bad news about my T3500, I over tightened the CPU cooler and broke one of the screws. I can still use it but when it broke it also left a mark on the motherboard (some of the tracings on the board around the screw is gone to say the least) and it seems like the tracings in question were used by the DIMM slot 3 because it's dead now. So I'm running 8GB on dual channel now...
> 
> I highly doubt I'll buy a W3680 now so I wont be using Throttlestop soon.


Take the board out and use thin strand copper wire to rejoin the traces. You need a thin tip soldering iron and a bit of 3% silver solder(with flux of course), but you should be able to make repairs if you take it carefully. After you're done get some modeling enamel paint and paint over the exposed wires, after a test boot of course. It takes careful work but it can be done. Have at it!


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## Susquehannock (Mar 27, 2018)

m&m's said:


> Well guys I have bad news about my T3500, I over tightened the CPU cooler and broke one of the screws. I can still use it but when it broke it also left a mark on the motherboard (some of the tracings on the board around the screw is gone to say the least) and it seems like the tracings in question were used by the DIMM slot 3 because it's dead now. So I'm running 8GB on dual channel now...
> 
> I highly doubt I'll buy a W3680 now so I wont be using Throttlestop soon.


Ouch! Sorry for your luck. Fortunately used boards are cheap on eBay. About $30. I would recommend the latest revision = '9KPNV'. Seems to be most durable and use better capacitors than the early ones.

If you don't have it already, the T3500 service manual is a great resource for working with these. Board replacement is near bottom of the document.

> http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/product/precision-t3500/manuals


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 28, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> Fortunately used boards are cheap on eBay. About $30.


This is also a good option if you don't want to dive into a soldering job.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 28, 2018)

m&m's said:


> Well guys I have bad news about my T3500, I over tightened the CPU cooler and broke one of the screws. I can still use it but when it broke it also left a mark on the motherboard (some of the tracings on the board around the screw is gone to say the least) and it seems like the tracings in question were used by the DIMM slot 3 because it's dead now. So I'm running 8GB on dual channel now...
> 
> I highly doubt I'll buy a W3680 now so I wont be using Throttlestop soon.


If you want to do a PSU swap the time to do it is while the MB is out. The 8 pin CPU cable runs underneath the MB. There were  Dell 2 PSUs for these. One for single GPU and another for dual GPU machines. But you'll need to get the correct harness or you won't have the extra connectors. Dell PSUs are seriously multi rail, and they pretty much support configurations that Dell sold and that's it. If you go aftermarket make sure there's a enough power on the 5V. and 3.3V. rails. EVGA is pretty good about this. I have an EVGA B2-850 in mine. It's not 100% modular the 8 pin still runs under the board. The Dell PSUs are good, and you can find deals but aftermarket is more flexible with adding parts.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 30, 2018)

I came across a newer T3500 MB 9V99W
https://www.serversupply.com/produc...MIlsWnyr6U2gIVVTyBCh27XQnkEAQYAiABEgKzYfD_BwE
Absolutely no idea what's different about it.


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## Susquehannock (Mar 30, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I came across a newer T3500 MB 9V99W
> https://www.serversupply.com/produc...MIlsWnyr6U2gIVVTyBCh27XQnkEAQYAiABEgKzYfD_BwE
> Absolutely no idea what's different about it.


Not certain of this, I believe the _9V99W_ are factory refurb replacement boards. Also go by part number _JCGCY_  depending on the original release. Basically older ones with better capacitors installed like on the _9KPNV_ revision.

From what I can tell, there were three releases originally.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 30, 2018)

I have no idea, I just came across the later number. I saw that post in Delll Community Forum about those 3 versions. But they were asking if there were any others.
I see you have an RX480 running on a T3500. Here's a thread about what someone had to go through to get one running on a T5500.
https://community.amd.com/thread/202370
The T5500 MB is looking interesting for a single CPU setup because the 4x PCIe 16x slots make GPU arrangements more flexible. 16+16+4 is what the chipset supports. Thanks for the info that it fits the T3500 case. I have some Arctic GPU coolers that make my cards 3 slots wide for both the HD6970, and the HD6990.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 30, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I came across a newer T3500 MB 9V99W
> https://www.serversupply.com/produc...MIlsWnyr6U2gIVVTyBCh27XQnkEAQYAiABEgKzYfD_BwE
> Absolutely no idea what's different about it.


That board is identical to the 9KPNV except for the fan controller chip, which was updated/replaced to be more reliable.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 31, 2018)

I came across this heatsink/ fan assy. W715F or W567F . It's for the 2nd CPU in a T5500. But it looks like it's the same as the T3500 LGA1366 cooler with a fan and shroud attached.
https://www.freelanddigital.com/Dell-W715F-PrecisionT5500-Heatsink-and-Cooling-Fan-p/w715f.htm

Does anyone know if the cage fan runs off of the same PWM signal as the CPU fan? Or is there another sensor for it? I've replaced the .9A. CPU fan with a 1.8A AFC1512DG. I was thinking of putting 2x connectors on it so the MB won't detect the change. Basically I've removed the 2x 120mm fans and gone back to the Precision 490 150mm+92mm setup.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 31, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> But it looks like it's the same as the T3500 LGA1366 cooler with a fan and shroud attached.


It is.


Retrorockit said:


> Does anyone know if the cage fan runs off of the same PWM signal as the CPU fan?


In the T3500, they are independently controlled. The lower fan is controlled by the CPU temp sensor and the upper fan is controlled by the ram temp sensors, which is why the upper fan has an air channeling shroud that runs over the ram.


Retrorockit said:


> I was thinking of putting 2x connectors on it so the MB won't detect the change.


That would work if you're using a y-spitter cable.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 31, 2018)

I'm used to BTX Dells being able to handle a 1.8A. fan w/o problem. But this isn't BTX so I should probably be careful. So 2 fan connectors, but just 1 CPU PWM wire.
I'm finding that the T7500 uses this size fan in a 150mm+120mm setup and a bigger heatsink U402F.
 I really appreciate the in depth knowledge. It saves a lot of trial and error.

The 2nd CPU fan is powered off of the riser card, so is the 2nd memory fan for the added RAM slots. The U402F is a known swap, you just need to dump the HDD tray to make room for the bigger fans and coolers. The T7400 mounts the HDDs between the PSU and MB and that allows taller cooling solutions.


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## Susquehannock (Mar 31, 2018)

Certain the riser heat sink it's self is not same animal. Notice the heat pipe configuration is different - at an arc instead of in straight line like the regular sink. Stands to reason the mounts would be same though. Here is a pic of the riser sink naked:
https://www.serversupply.com/images/item/218914.jpg

Looking at these boards, both T3500 and T5500 have all same fan headers. Two for front case, which the BIOS looks for, and one up top by the SATA headers labeled "FAN_HDD" for the #WH216 assembly that mounts in the optical drive bay. Always assumed the T5500 CPU riser fan connected to that top header.

Seems the BIOS does not require a signal from that 3rd connector as it does with the case fans. Which makes sense since the T5500 CPU riser and HDD cooler assembly are optional.

Thought about trying the larger #U402F CPU sink from T7500 but would probably require a large hole in the side panel for clearance.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 1, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> Certain the riser heat sink it's self is not same animal. Notice the heat pipe configuration is different - at an arc instead of in straight line like the regular sink. Stands to reason the mounts would be same though. Here is a pic of the riser sink naked:



It doesn't have the one short pipe either. But it looks like they're following the LGA1366 cooler boundaries.



lexluthermiester said:


> In the T3500, they are independently controlled. The lower fan is controlled by the CPU temp sensor and the upper fan is controlled by the ram temp sensors, which is why the upper fan has an air channeling shroud that runs over the ram.


 I also have a T3400 project MB TP412, and a similar XPS 420 project TP406 (which looks like a single GPU T3400 board) both x38 chipset. Do you know how the 2 fan headers are configured on those? If they're both linked I want to run a 2 motor Delta GFB1212VHG 3.4A. fan (2x1.7A motors). I have these fans in PWM and straight wired versions. I can go 7V./12V. off of a Molex with a switch, or PWM off of the fan headers. The old BTX stuff seems to have no problem with 1.8A. fans.

Here are some photos of my BTX cooling setups in my album at OCN.
http://www.overclock.net/forum/members/441031-retrorockit-albums-dell-xps-btx-cooling.html


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 4, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I also have a T3400 project MB TP412, and a similar XPS 420 project TP406 (which looks like a single GPU T3400 board) both x38 chipset. Do you know how the 2 fan headers are configured on those?


I believe it's similar but in reverse, the CPU temp sensor controls the upper CPU fan and the northbridge chipset temp sensor controls the lower card cage fan.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 4, 2018)

OK thanks.
 My local Craigslist has 20 Dell T3500s for $1K.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 5, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> OK thanks. My local Craigslist has 20 Dell T3500s for $1K.


$50 each is not bad if you can turn them around.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 5, 2018)

Asking price for T3500s is $200-300 around here. But they ask $150 for old Optiplexes also so I don't know what the real price would be.
I don't think I'd want to do Ebay because then I'd  have to ship the damn things. It would be pretty much committing to starting a business. If video card and RAM prices were normal I'd probably do it. But I don't see any way to convert 20 of them to gaming rigs without risking too much money.

I just ordered a Scythe Ninja 4 CPU cooler. It's a lot cheaper and more readily available than the TR Macho 120 which I had to import. It doesn't have an offset for the fan ( which I won't use), and adds another heatpipe with bigger fins. Performance is up there with the Macho 140mm version. It's a few mm bigger than the Macho 120 here and there. I know I'll need to mod another side cover to get it in the T3500.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod..._re=scythe_ninja_4-_-13K-0014-00002-_-Product


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## Susquehannock (Apr 5, 2018)

T3500 sell for $200-300 on CL around here as well. Be careful of cheap ones. Especially in bulk. As you probably know, they are often 'N series' for networks which can be a real pain to install Windows on - modded BIOS et all ...

Yeah. Graphics card prices are the killer. Even getting these boxes free I am not willing to shell out $4-500 for decent GPU. Figure in a new HDD and OS and it can really add up.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 6, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> T3500 sell for $200-300 on CL around here as well. Be careful of cheap ones. Especially in bulk. As you probably know, they are often 'N series' for networks which can be a real pain to install Windows on - modded BIOS et all ....


I assume no HDD, no OS, and probably not an unlocked CPU. I wasn't aware of N series but it makes sense in that environment. I have a recycler who likes my projects. I haven't bought a T3500 from him yet. Mine came with W3690 12GB ,and an OS for $215. I could probably beat that price now, but not by a lot.
  I'm thinking of cutting out the back of the 8x PCIe slots. I've heard having an old random GPU plugged in can get past the Dell BIOS issue and let newer Radeons run.
I tried this on an old Dimension MB, and found ( after a couple false starts) that chucking a Dremel #194 1/8" cutter in a drill press, setting the height of the table and then feeding the MB into the cutter works like a charm. I stopped a little short of the full cut and finished the new slot with a razor blade by hand to stay away from the pins. Besides old 16x cards run just fine in 8x slots.


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## Susquehannock (Apr 6, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I'm thinking of cutting out the back of the 8x PCIe slots. I've heard having an old random GPU plugged in can get past the Dell BIOS issue and let newer Radeons run.


Which newer cards are you referring to? 500 series? So far I put three AMD graphics cards in T3500 without issues. One RX 480, and two RX 460. Never had to do any multiple card swaps. Perhaps installing the updated Intel chipset driver does the trick, I don't know. That and BIOS are first thing I do to these.

[edit]
Going to a try couple new things with the T5500 board and see if I can get farther this time.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 6, 2018)

It's nice to know they're working for you. I haven't run my T3500 yet.  The issue began with GCN3 cards. R9-3xx (and 285 which is 380). Dell won't update the BIOS, and AMD says GCN3 and up doesn't support VESA modes. If you search error 43, or Vesa mode 103 at Dell forums you'll find reports. Maybe Dell patched the BIOS for their workstation customers. Dells usual response is you need a new computer. I know T3400 has the issue and all the other BTX I've seen. I look at userbenchmark and if I see almost 100% Nvidia cards I assume the worst. AMD and Dell both have never discussed a solution. I complained about it in AMDs user forum pointing out the 10,000s of sales they were losing. Maybe somebody listened. I own 2 R9-285s and a Fury Nano. I just want to be prepared. I've seen a couple RX470s in T3500 at userbench and they have the same driver listed. Maybe you found a sweet spot? Or maybe the newest stuff works. No idea if Dell fixed the BIOS or AMD fixed the drivers. It's definitely good news though. But with prices the way they are I won't be testing it soon. I might grab an HD7990 to play with. Fastest GCN 2 card. If the T3500 can run the 2x 285s, or Fury I'll put it in the T3400. A big plus for the T3500 if it can run anything.
I had the MB out so I cut the 8x slots anyway. I have 4-16x GPUs stuck in there now. I found some more metal I don't need. I'll take some pics. when I put it back  together. The T5500 board would be nice. I might get one to play with. Maybe a whole system.



Susquehannock said:


> Which newer cards are you referring to? 500 series? So far I put three AMD graphics cards in T3500 without issues. One RX 480, and two RX 460. Never had to do any multiple card swaps. Perhaps installing the updated Intel chipset driver does the trick, I don't know. That and BIOS are first thing I do to these.
> 
> [edit]
> Going to a try couple new things with the T5500 board and see if I can get farther this time.


I thought of something about the GPU situation. It could be that someone at one of the aftermarket video card makers decided to do their job and solved the VESA 103 issue. Maybe AMD, and Dell had nothing to do with it. It could be that some specific brands of video card work, and others don't. I've seen this with EUFI support. Could you post what brand of GPU you had success with, and what drivers worked for you. I've also heard rumors that MSI afterburner provided a cure. Are you running any Video utilities?
Vesa mode 103h is dirt simple 800x600, 256 colors. There's no reason any GPU can't run it. I think it's more of a not wanting to bother with it issue.

View attachment 99500



I'll probably get yelled at for the huge file size. But here's the mod to install the 150x50mm fan from the Precision 490 dual CPU machine into the T3500. MC527 is the fan + housing.
It slides into the slot in the bottom of the case. The red X is a tab that needs to be folded down, and the red 6-32 square nut is glued down over a 1/8" hole (that you drilled). basically you're moving the mounting screw about an inch. I used Super Glue Gel so I could glue around the sides of the nut. For any viewers unfamiliar with the T3500 the original setup was 2x 120mm Foxconn .9A. fans with an HDD tray over the top of them. This resulted in a smaller CPU cooler also.


Heres the AFC1512DG 1.8A. fan installed. The 92mm cage fan slides in next to it and latches to the main fan. JD850 is the 2nd fan, but you can find them together as Precision 490 fan assy.



You may also notice in the last photo I've run the CPU wiring around the MB instead of under it, and the 2nd FDD bay has been trimmed square. The 256cfm fan was used to cool 2x 120W Pentium 4 based Xeons. I need to add a 2nd pigtail to the fan so I can use both fan headers fir it. PWM from CPU socket only. The 2nd fan wire has been rerouted and uncurled so it can reach the HDD fan header.


I apologize for the double photos. I tried to edit it down to thumbnails and it added them again.



Ok I finally got it to take a thumbnail. Macho 120, heatsinked VRMs, and original CPU cooler on the chipset.



Brass knuckles are a bonus of the Thermalright Macho 120 mod. The layout work at the top is for some air intake scoops over the GPU area. I'm hoping the 140mm PSU fan will draw some cold air in there.



The HD6990 could probably use some help in the noise and cooling dept. This is the reason for the FDD bay trim, and the air scoops. Just a mockup, no idea if this will fit or not.



A couple of random GPUs in the opened up 8x PCIe slots. The T5500 board has 4 PCIe 16x slots so even if it doesn't run on this it allows me to model for the MB swap.



And here's the Dell OEM HD6990, notice the bracket that slides into the fan housing to support it. Crossfired with an HD6970 for Trifire GPU setup. If slot 1 turns out to be 8x I can put  Arctic coolers on both cards. Best guess is swap the cards and run a single fan cooler on the 6970, and the 6990 in the first slot. Trifire fills in the gaps that cause micro stutter. It's a problem with 2x GPUs, and non existent with 3 of them. The Macho 120 is enclosed on 3 sides already. I've made a panel to duct the fan to it on all 4 sides. Passive/ Agressive cooling.

Well it seems to have stopped taking my photos. Can't blame them really. The only other I wanted to show was the VRM heatsink needs holes in the back to clear some taller compnents between some of the MOSFETs,  or individual heatsinks.  Be aware that you can't just slap something down there.


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## erocker (Apr 8, 2018)

@Retrorockit Please edit your posts instead of double posting. Try to use the thumbnail option for your pictures.

Thanks.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 8, 2018)

erocker said:


> This thread is about Throttlestop. Please keep on topic. @Retrorockit Please edit your posts instead of double posting. Try to use the thumbnail option for your pictures.
> 
> Thanks.


That is a Throttlestop OVERCLOCKING project. Every mod there is in preparation for a TS overclock.  I'm the OP for this thread. Most of us here are using the Dell T3500 for testing Throttlestop overclocking. Those mods are necessary to further the project. For TS overclocking to be taken seriously there are going to have to be some serious results produced.
Every time I tried to use the thumbnail it just loaded both the image, and the thumbnail. I'm sure it's my fault, but I'm just not sure how.
 Thanks for fixing it for us.

The last  photo in my previous post was supposed to be the first one. It goes with  with the comments about the fan mounting mod. It got moved when the moderator fixed my huge photo files.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 9, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> That is a Throttlestop OVERCLOCKING project. Every mod there is in preparation for a TS overclock.  I'm the OP for this thread. Most of us here are using the Dell T3500 for testing Throttlestop overclocking. Those mods are necessary to further the project. For TS overclocking to be taken seriously there are going to have to be some serious results produced.
> Every time I tried to use the thumbnail it just loaded both the image, and the thumbnail. I'm sure it's my fault, but I'm just not sure how.
> Thanks for fixing it for us.
> 
> The last  photo in my previous post was supposed to be the first one. It goes with  with the comments about the fan mounting mod. It got moved when the moderator fixed my huge photo files.


I created a thread for Dell Workstation stuff over here; https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/dell-workstation-owners-club.243124/
It might be a good idea to post all your pictures there and link the post. Then you can post the full size pictures. Just a thought.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 9, 2018)

The purpose is to show others what it takes to get a good TS overclock on an OEM computer. i didn't want to post huge images. It's just that every time I tried to edit them it got worse. If they would have loaded to my gallery at OCN I just would have linked there. But for some reason they wouldn't. I'm aware of my lousy forum photo skills. That's why I don't post many images.
 I will check out the thread though. Thanks.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 9, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> The purpose is to show others what it takes to get a good TS overclock on an OEM computer.


I gotta disagree somewhat. I've been using TS with a X5675 in a T3500 and it goes straight to 3.33ghz on the stock Dell cooler with only slight temp increases. All that I really needed to keep it back down was add a fan to the HS. While your case and other mods are very interesting and cool(pun intended), they seem a bit off-topic. The other thread is a free-for-all Workstation thread where posts like the ones above are very welcome and encouraged.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 9, 2018)

3.33GHz isn't where TS overclocking is at. My W3690 is 3.47GHz base clock. I'm using Unclwebbs 4.266GHz W3680 overclock on a stock cooler as my baseline. BTW aren't you the one who asked to see pics. of the heatpipes out the side of the case? I had a TS overclock in 2nd place at CPUZ for  2 years QX6800 @4ghz on a 2005 Dell Dimension E520 using these methods. When I posted it in 2015 it was 2 whole multipliers ahead of the next user. When you start adding Voltage to an overclock heat production becomes exponential. Also in LGA1366 Intel throttles the overclock on unlocked CPUs based on temperature. The fan and cooler mod are very much related to TS overclocking. The GPUs are so the result doesn't get buried on page 7 at userbenchmark like Unclwebbs did due to a small GPU when it should be in first place. A good overclock for a W3680/90 is 4.5GHz using traditional methods. There's a very good possibility that without the RAM instability the FSB guys have TS might go beyond that. The only way to find out is to build something like this and try it. I don't see much point in having a 6 core 12 thread 4.6Ghz CPU driving a GTX750. I also don't see much point in spending whatever a GTX1080 costs these days to mod a 10 year old Dell. I do appreciate  your input here based on your experience with Dell workstations. But TS overclocking has reached it's limit with the stock cooler. If any progress is going to be made then cooling and Voltage limits will have to be raised.

BTW anyone who isn't up for metal work can put a taller U402F cooler, and do the Precision 490 fan swap for little money or effort. The HDD tray will have to go though.


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## Susquehannock (Apr 9, 2018)

Has anyone put a U402F in a T3500/5500 case? Being for the much larger T7500, seems to me the side panel would have to go too. Being a machinist & fabricator, not afraid a of a little metal work. 

And I do agree about having dedicated threads. Was thinking of starting one a couple weeks ago actually. Make it much easier for others to find info on the worstations and the mods we do.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 9, 2018)

https://www.serversupply.com/ACCESSORIES/HEATSINK/PRECISION/DELL/U402F.htm
 Server supply lists those as fitting T3500 ,T5500, and T7500. You could send it back if it doesn't fit. I don't own one to test fit it for you. Or text them.
I never intended this to be a workstation thread. It's about TS overclocking, and I already know what those 120x38mm fans sound like when you send 180-200W through the CPU. I already know what kind of temps. you get with that size heatsink under OC load testing. But I really do appreciate you guys sharing what you know about these computers. What I'm doing is about as far as you can get from serious workstation use.
 TS overclocking once you get an unlocked CPU running is like a three legged stool. Voltage, cooling, and multiplier. Did I forget to mention smoke? There might be smoke.


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## Susquehannock (Apr 9, 2018)

May text them. Many places just lump part of same series together. The regular T3500 sink is going to be inadequate once Throttlestop overclockable CPU reaches my hands. Some time back I found a page with dimensions on that U402F. T7500 size, coupled with fact they mount HDD up top and have no swing out panel,  had me wondering about fitment.
https://www.salland.eu/newfiles/product/84/10/841053.jpg


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## Retrorockit (Apr 9, 2018)

You might look at a N764D heatsink. It's only slightly taller than the T3500 part . 8 tubes and a fan in the midddle. It may even fit the 2nd CPU on the T5500.  You might want to have one around for that purpose. Screws and spacers should get it mounted. The heat spreader is LGA775 width though. I don't buy 4 tube heatsinks. 6x8mm tubes, or 8x6mm tubes or more is where I'm at. I actually had the Macho 120 mounted with the stock fan, turned it 180* so it's offset to the rear. I dimpled the RAM cover with a heat gun. Of  course the case cover still needed holes. My original cover is looking like a Swiss cheese right about now. But that cooler was  never common in the US for some reason.


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## erocker (Apr 9, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> The purpose is to show others what it takes to get a good TS overclock on an OEM computer. i didn't want to post huge images. It's just that every time I tried to edit them it got worse. If they would have loaded to my gallery at OCN I just would have linked there. But for some reason they wouldn't. I'm aware of my lousy forum photo skills. That's why I don't post many images.
> I will check out the thread though. Thanks.


It's not a problem, I completely missed the context, my bad.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 9, 2018)

It's a very unusual context. Software overclocking, Dell workstations, and unlocked Xeons. None of this is obvious. And your help with the oversized images is sincerely appreciated.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 9, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> BTW aren't you the one who asked to see pics. of the heatpipes out the side of the case?


That's right, I did. My bad..


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## Retrorockit (Apr 10, 2018)

OK so regarding the bigass GPU cooler. I had an extra HD6970 sitting around so I converted it to the Arctic Mono Plus which is exactly 1/2 of the HD6990 Twin Turbo cooler. The cover closes over it with light contact. To run both cards with them I will need GPU function in the first slot. The 24 pin MB connector will decide where the 6990 goes. Maybe a 90* adapter will clear, maybe not. I can't tell with the single fan GPU. To resolve the GPU contact I can put a couple bumpers for the cover to rest on along the edge instead of touching  the GPUs. If the 6990 can fit in slot 4 I won't need the converted 6970. It can run in slot2. If I need to move the 6990 it has to go in slot 1 because it really does need that cooler. There are also 90* 24 pin MB headers available. BTW those coolers are available for a wide range of GPUs. They're known for being very quiet and usually lowering temps. too. Sometimes a lot.


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## Susquehannock (Apr 10, 2018)

Regarding AMD cards in T3500 ...

You may be onto something in respect to brands, but I am more inclined to think mainboard Intel chipset driver is relevant. One reason being, diagrams of X38 architecture (T3400) and X58 (T3500) show the PCIe x16 slots connecting direct to the Chipset before BIOS. Second being, last updates from Dell were released two years after they moved on to the T3600 series so it is very possible most of the T3500 out there are running the original driver. Here is a link to the Dell page:

https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/drivers/driversdetails?driverId=R0JHR

As for brands ...
AMD cards which I have installed personally (A17 BIOS) = one RX 480, - MSI brand, one RX 460 - MSI brand, and one RX 460 - Gigabyte brand. All went without a hitch. Crimson driver 16.12.2. Latest Intel chipset driver installed. 'A02'. The RX 480 is in my personal gaming system running Adrenalin 17.12.1 in Win10 now.

Went back to conversations on other forums to refresh my memory. One member got the usual 'error 43' when trying to install XFX brand RX 480 in their T3500. Same A17 BIOS and Crimson driver as I was running at the time. Far as I could tell they never did try updating the Intel chipset driver. Ended up returning the RX 480 and got 1060 instead. Member I was having a private message conversation with installed RX 470, ASUS brand without problem. This was after they followed my advice updating the BIOS and Intel chipset driver so can not be sure if that was what did it or not.

Welcome your thoughts on above and hope we can nail down the issue running AMD cards in these T3500.


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## MortySimmons (Apr 10, 2018)

Hi Guys,

I came across this forum because I wanted to overclock my Dell 7020 (I7 6700 ) with ThrottleStop.
I like your enthusiasm a lot and it was a pleasure to read your journeys!

TS showed me the adjustments for the turbo multipliers so I upped them to max. (40) for all 4 cores - but nothing happened. I upped the voltage too without any success. It seems that the cpu ignores any change to these settings even on the main screen (set multiplier). Of course I gave the cores some workload to see if the multipliers get used. Maybe somebody can confirm this or give me a hint where to look or what to set in TS - Thanks!

The thread also raised my attention to some older machines. I have access to some T3400 one T5400 and one T960. The T5400 seems to be partially looted because one heat sink is missing and there is only one bank with 4Gb ram. When I have some time I will try to get the T5400 running to have a look at the specs - would be great to have a dual XEON to play with 
Is it possible to overclock both CPUs with TS?


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## Retrorockit (Apr 10, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> Welcome your thoughts on above and hope we can nail down the issue running AMD cards in these T3500.


 I will definitely try your method. I would love to have my Fury nano running because userbench doesn't accept Crossfire input. Also my 2-R9-285s in Crossfire would be sweet also.


MortySimmons said:


> Is it possible to overclock both CPUs with TS?


 You need unlocked CPUs for TS to overclock. The only unlocked LGA771 CPUs are the QX9775. Also the FBDIMM RAM is pretty lame  for gaming. Lot's of latency and the extra power draw kind of ties you down to multirail Dell PSUs. The T7400 supports 1600fsb and 150W CPUs so a pinmod to 4GHz on a pair of X5470s should be possible. I think the PLL is supported by SetFSB.
T 3400 and QX9650 is known good for 4.15GHz TS overclock easy. X38 has hidden 400fsb support,16GB RAM,and PCIe 2.0. Dual GPU slots too. T5400 is in the middle 333fsb, FBDIMMS.
TS certainly supports enough threads. I don't think anybody's tried it due to scarcity of unlocked SMP CPUs.
 Here's what I've been up to. Finding out the Arctic GPU cooler fits inside the T3500 made it mandatory to remove the air raid siren AMD used for a fan from the HD6990. So I ended up with the HD6990 2 x120mm fan 3 slot card, the single 120mm fan Arctic 6970 3 slot card, and a sapphire 2x 92mm fan 2 slot HD6970. I'm so glad Susquehannock mentioned the T5500 MB swap and 4x GPU slots. Cutting out the 8x slots let me try a few configurations. GPU in slot 1 is the shit! The HD6990 ended up there in all the good configurations. The 3 slot I fan 6970 in slot 4 clears all MB cables and the 3 big heatsinks sticking up looks outrageous. Airflow is good to all fans. The 2 slot 6970 in slot 4 leaves a PCI slot clear and the 2 smaller fans are rated to cool that card. The single Arctic isn't sold for that application, but it is the same cooler as the 2 on the HD6990. I can paint the fans white to match the Arctic so it will look sweet also. I'll try to get some pics. up. The Acrctic GPU  cooler kits can really help make a couple mismatched GPUs look like they belong together. Thy're super quiet also. The big hd 6990 cooler blocks the crossfire cable, and the trapdoor in the back needs some persuading but I thnk I can solve those.


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## Susquehannock (Apr 10, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I'm so glad Susquehannock mentioned the T5500 MB swap and 4x GPU slots. Cutting out the 8x slots let me try a few configurations. GPU in slot 1 is the shit! The HD6990 ended up there in all the good configurations.


So this means you have a T5500 board running? Turns out mine was not bad after all. Will post more info once I do some more testing.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 10, 2018)

Regarding the T3500 video issue. The problem I had in the past with other Dells was specifically related to the Dell BIOS video resolution. VESA Mode 103 which Dell required and AMD refused to provide from GCN3 on. Maybe the T3500 doesn't have that problem, but has another one related to the chipset driver which can be solved. It will be interesting to see what happens.
I don't have anything actually running. I'm still deciding what GPU setup to build around. I have the T3500 MB in the case as you saw in the photos. I cut out the back of both PCIe 8X slots so I could run 16X cards in them. There was a photo of a couple Quadros in them. I'm doing mockups to see what the T5500 configuration would allow me to do. I don't have a T5500 board, but it looks like one's in my future. It's actually possible to run 16X GPUs in 8X slots and the performance drop is almost unnoticeable on PCIe 2.0. Probaly even with the HD6990. If they're actually 4x then it's a 5% hit.


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## unclewebb (Apr 10, 2018)

@MortySimmons - When overclocking with ThrottleStop, you need a CPU with an unlocked multiplier (6700K).  Intel locks the multiplier on the regular Core i7-6700.  You might be able to lower the CPU Core and CPU Cache voltage but this is not going to make any significant difference to performance.


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## MortySimmons (Apr 11, 2018)

Thx guys! Looked into the T5400 and unfortunately it was in very bad shape and looted from everything good. So my journey with these toys ends here.
Will look into the other, more specialized thread to ask about the Dell 7020.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 11, 2018)

MortySimmons said:


> Will look into the other, more specialized thread to ask about the Dell 7020


Looking into the Optiplex 7020 I'm not seeing any unlocked CPUs.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-OptiPlex-7020/6889
This is usually due to a CPU wattage limit that keeps the faster CPUs out. ASFAIK TS is the only option for overclocking those and when it doesn't work that's usually about it.
The T3400 would be a fun project. QX9650,T9303 cooler, and TS 6.00 will get you in the game. TJ258 is the better cooler assy. but requires some "fitting" to get it in there.
This is a TS overclock on one of those.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/3530803

I should probably clarify about the cut out 8X PCIe slots. This is a known technique, but I have no idea whether or not it will work on a Dell, or a T3500. It was useful to me to see if the T5500 MB swap would  be worthwhile. I've done the hardmod but haven't tested it so it's unconfirmed. 
 Now that I have the 3x GPUs in there I think I want the 120mm cage fan back. The original one got repurposed already and is in the XPS 420. I've ordered a Precision 690 fan assy. which gets me another 150x50mm fan and a 120mm cage fan with 7 GPU card support slots. The support slot is missing when using slot1 for the GPU and the HD 6990 with  dual Arctic coolers is pretty heavy. Cutting out the rest of the bottom FDD cage should get enough room for this. I'll probably need to add an intake vent to the front cover also.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 13, 2018)

I got the Scythe Ninja 4 cooler in yesterday. Looked at it,measured it etc. Slept on it. Got up this morning and cut the Ninja down to size. It's  basically the same foot print as the macho 120 now except no offset. 122mmx122mm vs. 120x100mm and I can cut it down another mm on any side if i need to. It's about 3 fins taller. So it needs more than drilling holes to fit the cover. The Ninja has fan mounting tabs sticking out on all 4 corners of all the fins. I cut them off with a pair of small diagonal wire cutters. The Ninja is now passive. 20% more area,20% more heatpipes, a few extra fins. I'll probably put that mod on the back burner for now. I'll see how the 120 does. It's a pretty potent cooler in it's own right.  It's design power rating is 200W. The Ninja should be good for about 240W. I might make a raised clear Plexiglass cover to resolve the clearance issues. I've never gone in for visual mods before but this one might change my mind. I'm usually happy if my mods look like they came from the factory.
Here are some photos of where this is at right now. 2 of the Arctic Trifire with Macho 120, and 2 of the same with Scythe Ninja 4 cooler.

View attachment 99708View attachment 99709View attachment 99710View attachment 99708View attachment 99709View attachment 99710View attachment 99711View attachment 99711View attachment 99708View attachment 99709View attachment 99709View attachment 99710View attachment 99711


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## Susquehannock (Apr 13, 2018)

Thanks for info on aftermarket coolers. Been considering which to get.

Which reminds me .... do we have a list of known unlocked CPU that overclock with TS?


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## Retrorockit (Apr 14, 2018)

W3570/80 i7-965/975 are the unlocked 4 core 8T 45nm, and w3680/90 are the 32nm 6 cores 12T. i7-980X/990X also. That's it for LGA1366 The Xeons are 1333 RAM, the i7s 1066.
LGA775 is all Core2 extremes  65nm X6800,QX6700/6800/6850 45nm QX9650, and 400fsb QX9770 and LGA771 QX9775 unlocked SMP. There are  some mobile Core2 extremes also.
ASFIK if it boots an unlocked CPU TS can OC it. I haven't tested anything newer. I see a lot of people with 2500K in Dell Optiplexes but nobody seems to be trying this. A lot of computers keep the unlocked CPUs out with a CPU Wattage limit in the BIOS, or Chipset, and some OC will be limited by a weak VRM that won't support Voltage increases. I always check userbenchmark.com for unlocked CPUs running before I would buy one.
 PM me if you want to do the Macho 120. I ended up making a drill fixture to get the holes in the right place. I underestimated it the first time I tried and it bit me.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 15, 2018)

I'm going to speculate about the various PCIe slot versions on the T3500/5500 MBs. The T3500 has what appear to be 8X slots in 1, and 3 positions, and 16X in 2, and 4. The manual lists them as such. The MB is stenciled 4X at the 8X slots. I think this might be because Dell offered these with 2-16X  GPUs and the bandwidth of the chipset is 36 PCIe lanes which would be 16+16+4. So 4X is all that would remain. The T5500 has 4-16X physical slots but lists 1, and 3 as 8X which is the same as T3500 and the chipset has the same 36 PCIe lanes.
I'm also trying to figure out the various versions of the T5500 MBs. CRH6C and D883F seem to be the most common. D833F has a fan on an added heatsink in front of the expansion slots, the other has a passive cooler there.
Then there's this.
*Re: T5500 - Just One Model/Design?*
This motherboard was for China and Russia only = 1D7WK
These three motherboards were for all other countries = R152N, WJ4MM, X8MJD (latest one)


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## Susquehannock (Apr 15, 2018)

- Update:
Typing this post with working T5500 board (#0CRH6C) in T3500 case.  As expected, nothing overclock friendly here.

Got to thinking about why the board would not boot on previous attempts. CPU compatibility perhaps? Sure enough. Intel page confirmed updated BIOS required to run Westmere in these Intel 5520 chipset boards. Saw that W5590 was on list for old BIOS and gave it a try. Fired right up and ran tests (screen shot below). Glad I bought this Nehalem even though it turned out to be locked. Assumed the T5500 board was shot.

Re-tried X5687 to confirm previous no boot situations were not an install glitch. No go. Same CPU error right at power up. Put W5590 back in, updated BIOS from 'A06' to 'A16' then re-installed X5687. Good to go. Ran Prime95 small FFTs for an hour or so to stress things. All good at 3.7ghz. (screen shot below)
Expect temps to drop nicely once premium TIM applied. Using generic white paste so as not to waste good stuff during frequent changes. One thing I like about these Dell. Quick & easy CPU change.

> Intel 5520 chipset CPU compatibility page:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006567/server-products.html

- observations
1] SpeedFan gives control of the small chipset fan (see images below) on the T5500 board.
2] SpeedFan will increase lower front fan #1 to CPU cooler to 100%. But will only increase upper front fan #2 to the RAM shroud by 60%. Given that is not the case with T3500 with everything else exact same, leads one to believe fan controller on the T5500 is to blame. By design or glitch, cannot say.
3] HW-monitor does not show full CPU speed under turbo mode with either processor. Again, this was not the case with T3500 board.

Not going to run a 2nd CPU riser with this T3500 power supply, obviously. Not enough wattage or connectors. But it is nice to know we have more board options. Should prove interesting to compare overclocks using ThrottleStop. Just wish we could increase wattage. That is going to be our big limitation here.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 15, 2018)

With the unlocked CPUs wattage can be increased. Then VRM cooling will limit how far it goes. The chipset fan header will let me active cool my CPU/chipset cooler. I suppose speedfan, and HW Monitor probably weren't written with dual CPU workstation chipsets in mind.
Could you run the X5687 at userbenchmark.com to get a CPU score. That would make a good baseline for any later Nehalem overclocks to see if we gain anything. QX9650 45nm goes 4.15GHz easily. I would expect at least that from the W3570/80. Too bad there aren't any unlocked Westmere EPs. that would be a sweet gaming setup.
What are you running for a GPU, and did you try PCIe slot 1?
I just ordered a D883F MB for $40. I saw 3 caps between the MOSFETs where T3500 has 2. Maybe a little stronger VRM? The T5500 board just seems to have a little extra in a few places. I ust realized i may not have a CPU that will boot. Westmere W3690  is all I've got! I guess there's an unlocked nehalem in my future.
Maybe 2260 rpm is 100% for the Foxconn .9A. fan. The old 1.6A. Deltas ran 3800. You might un-pin the blue PWM wire from the connector and force full speed to see what you get.

I came across this at OCN X58 Xeon club.









I just read a long article about server RAM configurations on the Dual CPU Xeons with 5520 chipset. Some of it will apply to the single CPU systems also.  I didn't save it or i would just link to it. But here's what I found out. RAM speed is determined by several factors. The first one is the CPU tier. Low end Xeons are 800, mid range are 1066, and high end ( which would be the unlocked ones that apply here) are 1333. The next thing is how many modules per channel. 1 per can go 1333, 2 per 1066, and 3 per (which only happens on dual CPU riser) is 800. The next thing is ECC RAM which exacts a small toll in performance. 3 channel is of course much preferred to 2 channel. Registered RAM is required for more than 2 modules per channel and can actually improve performance. With 2 modules per channel the RAM goes into 2n timing which doesn't happen with Registered RAM. So the best setup look like 3 modules 1 per channel, and if you have the T5500 MB there's no harm in using large Registered RAM modules. Registered also supports 8GB and 16GB sizes better. So 3 large modules is the way to go, and registered is OK if you can use it. By " if you can use it" usually means a dual CPU motherboard even with 1 CPU.
Thanks Susquehannock for the tip on registered RAM. New Samsung 8GB DDR3 1333 ECC RDIMM  at Newegg $30 ea. This locks me in to the T5500 MB, but 8GB UDIMMS are $90 each!
AGAIN if you don't have the dual CPU T5500 MB you can't use these!! I've also ordered a W3570 so I'll have a Nehalem to boot from $15. Much cheaper than a QX9650! Plus 3 channel RAM and HT too!
I checked at Crucial.com and the Dell T3600 ( NOT the T3500) single CPU workstation can use RDIMMs, so there are exceptions. But proceed with caution


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## unclewebb (Apr 17, 2018)

Finally got a W5580 installed into my T3500.  The multiplier and turbo power limits are locked and it runs hot because it is 45nm.  It is a D0 stepping so it is a hair better than a Core i7-920 but not much.

It is 2018.  For the T3500, I recommend that you save up until you can afford a W3680.
6 cores, 32nm, unlocked multiplier, more MHz, less heat.  Your T3500 will thank you.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 17, 2018)

I agree about the W3680/90, but I just ordered a W3570 so I have a Nehalem around in case I come across a BIOS that doesn't support Westmere yet. $15 is pretty painless. But they're cheap for a reason.
 A little  bit more on the RAM speed/configuration issue. To Get 1333 speed and 3 channel configuration there are only a couple possibilities. 3X4GB=12GB, or 3X8GB 24GB. Nothing in between.
 With RDIMM systems 16GB modules become possible for 3X16GB=48GB. We're going to be behind the FSB overclockers in this area so there's no point in giving away anything we don't have to.


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## Susquehannock (Apr 17, 2018)

Good to know TS will allow me to up the wattage once an unlocked W3680 reaches my door. Going from W3565 to X5687 really woke up my RX 480 gaming box. Not surprising going from Bloomfield to Westmere. Looking forward to seeing how an overclocked Westmere changes things.

Keeping things simple running Quadro 600 in this guinea pig box. Have only tried PCIe x16 slot #2 (blue one) in either 3500 and 5500 board thus far. Here is the BenchMark you requested:

> >
UserBenchmarks: Game 14%, Desk 45%, Work 34%
CPU: Intel Xeon X5687 - *62.6%*
GPU: Nvidia Quadro 600 - *4.1%*
HDD: WD WD2502ABYS-18B7A0 250GB - *59.6%*
RAM: Unknown 6x2GB - *50.3%*
MBD: Dell Precision WorkStation T5500
> >
As for RAM, looking at service manual the T3500 board will run tri channel provided same size modules are in each of the primary slots (1,2,3). 3x1gb=3gb etc ... and I can say from experience that it will run tri channel with mixed type modules provided they are in pairs. Have been running tall one sided Samsung modules along with short two sided Kingstons (6x2gb=12gb tri channel) in my gaming T3500 for about 15 months.

[edit]
Regarding registered 1333 ECC ... looks like the market has changed on used server RAM since I first aquired this T5500 board about 10 months ago.  Prices have over doubled. 6x4gb=24gb was under $50. Not any longer. Thankfully 1366 Xeon have not been affected, yet.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 17, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> As for RAM, looking at service manual the T3500 board will run tri channel provided same size modules are in each of the primary slots (1,2,3). 3x1gb=3gb etc ... and I can say from experience that it will run tri channel with mixed type modules provided they are in pairs. Have been running tall one sided Samsung modules along with short two sided Kingstons (6x2gb=12gb tri channel) in my gaming T3500 for about 15 months.


It's not that it won't run with 6 slots populated, it's that it won't run 1333 speed with 6 slots populated. It will drop down to 1066 speed. You will lose one of the advantages of the unlocked Xeons.
But of course if that's what you already have that's a consideration too. You should get 1333 with 3x4GB, 1066 with 6x2GB, or 6x4GB and 1333 with 3x8GB. The FSB overclockers are starting at 1333 and going up from there to 1600-1800. We can't match that, but we can try to keep what we've got. I needed to buy RDIMMs so I was in a position to choose.
X5687 62.6% CPU relates to a QX9650 @ 4.15GHZ= 57%
Read back a few pages and Unclewebbs W3680 @ 4.266GHz. is there. Screenshots and everything. Page 3.
Here's his userbench. 87% CPU.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/7540614


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## Susquehannock (Apr 18, 2018)

I am probably leaving some speed on the table running mis-matched rank modules too. 

Came across a brand new listing on eBay - 8gb registered modules 'buy it now' at $20 each. By the time I clicked to buy three someone snagged up the whole lot of ten.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 19, 2018)

It's maybe 3% or so. Not a big deal.  I could have bought 3x2GB and added them for 18GB, or 3x4 GB for 24GB, but finding out how it works 3X 8GB looked good to me.
 I put the HD6990 in slot 4 and the 24 pin actually plugged in. I'm working on the 120mm cage fan with 150mm CPU fan. It's looking pretty good. I'll need a 25mmx120mm fan, the 38mm thick won't work with the housing I have. Air flow isn't ideal but my CFX cable issue is resolved. My T5500 MB is here. I need to go look at it. I saw some 8GB RDIMMs for less than I payed, but new Samsung from Newegg for $30  is good enough for me.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 21, 2018)

Here's an update on the Thermalright Macho 120 vs. Scythe Ninja 4 CPU cooler. The Scythe mounting kit won't interface with the T3500/5500 MB studs at all. The TR Macho 120 kit has the same threads as the MB. Not only that it has everything needed to adapt from the MB to the Scythe mounting brackets. So the Macho 120 mounting kit is almost a prerequisite for the Scythe Ninja.
The Macho 120 is rated for 200W but that's with it's .2A.  46cfm fan. The T3500 .9A. fan is 156cfm, and the Precision 490 150x50mm fan swap is 256cfm. So even though it costs more and is hard to locate the Macho 120 is probably the way to go. For those who haven't been watching it does require drilling holes in the cover to clear the heatpipes. The Scythe is even taller and would require spacing the cover up. There is a smaller version for the less adventurous. The Macho 90 rated for 160W with it's little 92mm fan. It's 135mm high so the HDD tray will probably have to go.


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## Hardrock351w (May 4, 2018)

Just signed up to be a part of this thread! 
I've been sitting on a i7 990x for about 8 years, (I won it in a contest) but I've never bothered to get a  motherboard for it because of the price. 
So about 2 weeks ago I walked into a local computer repair shop and asked if he had any Lga1366 boards that I could try and he ended up giving me a t3500 for $80 CAD! 
It was missing the hdd and video card, but I didn't care because I already had those. 
All in all with the 990x and TS, I've gotten it up to a 31x muliplyer @ 4.1 ghz..... Any higher and the good ole bsod. 
Very impressed with this setup!


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## unclewebb (May 4, 2018)

Hardrock351w said:


> All in all with the 990x and TS, I've gotten it up to a 31x muliplyer @ 4.1 ghz



My T3500 - Xeon W3680 tops out at about the same speed.  The 31 multiplier is OK for pretty much everything.  For Prime95 - Small FFT stability, I have to drop it down to 30.  The 32 multi is good for some screenshots and a nice userbenchmark score but it is not very stable beyond that.  On a board like the T3500 with no voltage options in the bios, I think the W3680 / W3690 and their twins, the 980X and 990X are all going to top out right around this speed.

For anyone shopping, go for one of the Xeons.  They are usually cheaper and the Xeons also have the advantage that they support DDR3 - 1333 memory whereas the Extreme CPUs only support DDR3 - 1066.  Edit - Looks like the 990X also supports DDR3 - 1333.

It would be interesting to see an overclocked T3500 vs Ryzen if both were running the same GPU.  Both platforms have similar max MHz.  Ryzen should have a little better IPC and memory performance but for many apps, there might not be that much difference between the two.  With the money you save, you could spend more on a GPU and you might end up with better gaming performance.  Too bad review sites didn't do more retro reviews like this, hint, hint!

Edit - Remember to bump up your TDP / TDC to avoid any full load throttling.
31.00 multi across all 12 threads.


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## Hardrock351w (May 4, 2018)

Actually my ram is showing 1333mhz under the bios with my 990x


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## unclewebb (May 4, 2018)

Can you check your ram speed with CPU-Z?  The Intel docs are not always correct.

https://ark.intel.com/products/5258...Edition-12M-Cache-3_46-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI


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## Hardrock351w (May 4, 2018)

Ok will do tonight, but it should be noted that the w3505 that was in it was only showing 1066mhz for ram and once I changed it shows 1333mhz.


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## Retrorockit (May 5, 2018)

Intel doesn't list the Xeons as unlocked either. Maybe they they just marked Xeons as 990x as needed. With the memory controller on the CPU RAM speed always varied with the level of CPU purchased. But pleasant surprises are always welcome. I've been too busy to play with my T3500/5500 lately. I did order a couple spare W3680 from China. Anyway it's nice to have a new member here. I always wonder what someone would have to Google to even find this thread!


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## unclewebb (May 5, 2018)

@Hardrock351w - What bios version are you using?  CPU-Z should report that too.  Some motherboards have bios options that are duds and do not actually do anything.  It will be interesting to see what speed your ram is running at.

@Retrorockit - I went to Google and typed in *overclock dell T3500* and this website was the 6th entry.  That's not too bad.  This thread has become a great resource for people that want performance at a budget price.


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## Hardrock351w (May 5, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Anyway it's nice to have a new member here. I always wonder what someone would have to Google to even find this thread!


Actually, it was because you linked  this thread/forum  on another forum about a guy building a t3500.
Also if you google "overclock t3500" this thread is about halfway down the results
It's at the top of the list if you google "throttlestop t3500"



unclewebb said:


> @Hardrock351w - What bios version are you using?  CPU-Z should report that too.  Some motherboards have bios options that are duds and do not actually do anything.  It will be interesting to see what speed your ram is running at.


I'm  running A17


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## unclewebb (May 5, 2018)

DDR3 - 1333 it is.  Thanks for posting that pic.
I trust CPU-Z more than the Intel docs.


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## Retrorockit (May 5, 2018)

Hardrock351w said:


> Also if you google "overclock t3500" this thread is about halfway down the results
> It's at the top of the list if you google "throttlestop t3500"



 That requires pre knowledge of Throttlestop, and T3500 overclocking. Two thing most overclockers have never heard of !


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## Hardrock351w (May 5, 2018)

Anything to help out *unclewebb*



Retrorockit said:


> That requires pre knowledge of Throttlestop, and T3500 overclocking. Two thing most overclockers have never heard of !


I've been out of the game for a while, but once I threw in this 990x it took me all of 10 minutes to find this page and clock it to 4.1ghz.


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## Retrorockit (May 10, 2018)

I guess the people who need it can find it.


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 13, 2018)

Came over from Overclock.net as discussion for this method of overclocking is lacking over there...haven't got my unlocked CPU yet, but here's a photo of my T3500 board in a standard ATX case...the purple RAM is eventually going to be black...and the plan is to just get a W3570 for now until I get some more cash, then I'll get an unlocked 6C/12T Xeon.  Currently just running a W3565.  Also...I need another 2GB of RAM to fill out the slots.  GPU is a R9 290X 4GB.


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## Caring1 (May 13, 2018)

Has anybody worked on that suggestion of putting together a list of unlocked CPU's?
I've got an E.S. E5-2650 that appears to be locked and the BIOS on the Motherboard is locked down even tighter.
I would like to play with it without buying a new board, CPU's can be cheaper.


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## Retrorockit (May 13, 2018)

Caring1 said:


> Has anybody worked on that suggestion of putting together a list of unlocked CPU's?
> I've got an E.S. E5-2650 that appears to be locked and the BIOS on the Motherboard is locked down even tighter.
> I would like to play with it without buying a new board, CPU's can be cheaper.


Here's a thread on the newer unlocked Xeons.
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/xeons-with-an-open-multiplier.15983/page-3
LGA775 and LGA1366 are pretty well covered here. I would love to see some results using TS on newer stuff. The hard thing about making a list here is I can't go back and add to it later. So as new ones are discovered I give them a mention. But that's about it for now. The fact that they're "sort of secret" helps keep the prices down also.


Aaron_Henderson said:


> Came over from Overclock.net as discussion for this method of overclocking is lacking over there...haven't got my unlocked CPU yet, but here's a photo of my T3500 board in a standard ATX case...the purple RAM is eventually going to be black...and the plan is to just get a W3570 for now until I get some more cash, then I'll get an unlocked 6C/12T Xeon.  Currently just running a W3565.  Also...I need another 2GB of RAM to fill out the slots.  GPU is a R9 290X 4GB.
> 
> View attachment 100943


Glad to see you here. TS overclocking just gets lost in the discussion of RAM timings, and QPI settings at OCN. I see you've got a water loop out the top. Hard to do in a Dell Case.


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 15, 2018)

Anyone notice the price jump on the T3500 boards?  They are up at $80 Canadian now from $60 less than a month ago...


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## Retrorockit (May 15, 2018)

Most people buy whole systems for that. Try a T5500 board. I got one for $40 and it uses cheaper RDIMMs also.


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 15, 2018)

Cheapest T5500 board on Ebay, at a glance at least, is $100 (I always include shipping when I mention prices).  Building the girlfriend a PC soon...just not sure what yet...and trying to keep things cheap as possible.  The registered RAM being cheaper is a plus though.


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## Retrorockit (May 15, 2018)

There are some server supply and Dell surplus outlets that can have better prices sometimes. Shopping by Dell part numbers helps. Dell community forums is one source of those. They're listed elsehwre in this thread also. Look on E bay and take notes on the part numbers and then Google those. Stuccu.com and Dell part numbers works well sometimes also. D883F produced this.
https://www.ebay.com/i/263619584713?chn=ps Later version T5500 MB with 2 active chipset coolers $45 shipped.
I'm jealous that one has a heatsink on the VRM. Mine didn't.


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 15, 2018)

Thanks for the tip, it'll definitely come in handy when it comes to saving a few bucks!  Also...I keep heatsinks from all sorts of old hardware just for these kind of things...will be adding some to my current T3500 setup once I get to overclocking it.


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## Susquehannock (May 15, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Came over from Overclock.net as discussion for this method of overclocking is lacking over there...haven't got my unlocked CPU yet, but here's a photo of my T3500 board in a standard ATX case...the purple RAM is eventually going to be black...and the plan is to just get a W3570 for now until I get some more cash, then I'll get an unlocked 6C/12T Xeon.  Currently just running a W3565.  Also...I need another 2GB of RAM to fill out the slots.  GPU is a R9 290X 4GB.


Welcome.  Nice set up thus far. Care to share steps you took to make the board work in an ATX case? Been wanting to do this for a while now.


Retrorockit said:


> https://www.ebay.com/i/263619584713?chn=ps
> I'm jealous that one has a heatsink on the VRM. Mine didn't.


That D883F with heatsink is probably a very early one.  The very early T3500 were that way as well. Not sure why the sinks were omitted later on. Perhaps Dell deemed they were not needed?

Here are some T5500 boards at $40 - $51 Canadian. Later CRH6C version which is what I have.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Preci...rd-0CRH6C-10-AVAILABLE-FREE-SHIP/123128509904


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## unclewebb (May 15, 2018)

I bought my T3500 from this guy.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-desktop-com...x-4-500gb-4gb-ddr3-fx580-win-7-pro/1352317470

Hard to go wrong when it only costs $80 CDN ($62.50 USD).


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 15, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> Welcome.  Nice set up thus far. Care to share steps you took to make the board work in an ATX case? Been wanting to do this for a while now.



Was pretty simple, actually...well, depending on your definition of simple, I guess...all I had to do was remove the 5.25" bays, and chop down the 3.5" HDD cage so that only two HDD's can be mounted.  Drilled out the rivets to remove said bays/cage...and used a dremel to chop down the HDD cage and reinstalled it.  Oh...almost forgot the most important bit...5 of the standoff's matched up with the standard ATX form factor, and thus, the board is mounted with only 5 screws.  Could have drilled and tapped the remaining mounting spot for standoffs, but it's been working fine with just the 5 standoffs.


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## Retrorockit (May 15, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> That D883F with heatsink is probably a very early one. The very early T3500 were that way as well. Not sure why the sinks were omitted later on. Perhaps Dell deemed they were not needed?


I'm guessing about the age of the T5500 board based on the assumption that D follows C. But I could definitely be wrong. Active chipset cooling is very real though.
From trying to add heatsinks to mine I've discovered it's not as simple as it could be. Not all the MOSFETs are the same thickness which can cause gaps unless you're using the foam tape. Also there are some capacitors in between that are taller than the MOSFETs so this is another complication. Add in considerations for the metal heatsinks expansion and contraction and I can see why Dell gave up on it. I would love to see what Dell actually did when they put heatsinks on them.


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## Susquehannock (May 15, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Was pretty simple, actually...well, depending on your definition of simple, I guess...all I had to do was remove the 5.25" bays, and chop down the 3.5" HDD cage so that only two HDD's can be mounted.  Drilled out the rivets to remove said bays/cage...and used a dremel to chop down the HDD cage and reinstalled it.  Oh...almost forgot the most important bit...5 of the standoff's matched up with the standard ATX form factor, and thus, the board is mounted with only 5 screws.  Could have drilled and tapped the remaining mounting spot for standoffs, but it's been working fine with just the 5 standoffs.


Thanks for sharing that. All makes sense. Was wondering about the rear I/O panel. And especially how you dealt with the front daughter board and power button since the BIOS looks for that at boot. Have an empty server height ATX case with removable motherboard tray that is itching to be used again.


Retrorockit said:


> I'm guessing about the age of the T5500 board based on the assumption that D follows C. But I could definitely be wrong. Active chipset cooling is very real though.
> From trying to add heatsinks to mine I've discovered it's not as simple as it could be. Not all the MOSFETs are the same thickness which can cause gaps unless you're using the foam tape. Also there are some capacitors in between that are taller than the MOSFETs so this is another complication. Add in considerations for the metal heatsinks expansion and contraction and I can see why Dell gave up on it. I would love to see what Dell actually did when they put heatsinks on them.


Far as I know the progression for US release T5500 boards goes > D883F > CRH6C  > W1G7K.
As for the MOSFETS between the VRM. Had always assumed Dell used thermal tape on that sink, or smaller MOSFETS were used in the early boards.  Wonder if I can find a part number for that heatsink.  Have some extra tape lying around. Notching the sink for clearance then using premium paste may be an option too.


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 15, 2018)

In regards to heatsink on the MOSFETs, I will probably just use a few individual RAM sinks...you know, the ones used on GPU memory.  Have a decent stash of those.



Susquehannock said:


> Thanks for sharing that. All makes sense. Was wondering about the rear I/O panel. And especially how you dealt with the front daughter board and power button since the BIOS looks for that at boot. Have an empty server height ATX case with removable motherboard tray that is itching to be used again.



Rear I/O cover is missing, but the ports are in the proper ATX location, so no issues there.  And the front daughter board is also missing, though I did figure out which pins are used to power the board, I don't have a power switch connected.  The board auto powers on when it receives power, so I just use the PSU rocker switch to power the system on.  Has worked fine like that for me.


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## Retrorockit (May 15, 2018)

I've been carving up some Enzotech copper chipset coolers for this purpose. I also chopped up a skived fin copper GPU cooler. Not sure which i'm going to use. But custom VRM cooling is normal for me.
 I went with the D883F because I liked the added chipset cooling. I don't see a date code on it to confirm it's age. It's also normal for me to test theories and find out the hard way.


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## storm-chaser (May 16, 2018)

New member here. Recently built up a Lenovo T61p using the Intel Core 2 Extreme X9000.
Using ThrottleStop I was able to achieve a stable overclock of 4.0Ghz @ 1.4v just for fun. I run it more like 3.4Ghz on a daily basis.
TS is definitely a gem of a program and I really cant wait to get another rig built with a core 2 extreme and do the same.


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## unclewebb (May 16, 2018)

Looks good @storm-chaser

There is usually no need to check both Clock Modulation and Chipset Clock Modulation.  Some laptops use one or the other, some laptops do not use either and I cannot remember seeing any that used both of these throttling methods.

Run a TS log file while testing.  If both of these report 100.0 when both boxes are clear then no need to check either one of these.  Dell was big on using both of these throttling methods depending on the laptop.  Lenovo not so much, if at all.


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## Retrorockit (May 16, 2018)

I notice CPUZ didn't pick up on the TS Voltage increase. A restart would probably fix that. I get different results in some benchmarks with, and without a restart.


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## J-Man1990 (May 16, 2018)

I stumbled on this thread while looking for a cheap way of upgrading from my old Dell optiplex 380 that i installed a x5460 in. (775 to 771 mod) I'm now running an hp z400 motherboard with the w3570 @ 3.6ghz! (can push it more but need better cooling)  I have a question tho has anyone on here ever used deepcool cpu coolers before? I'm building a gaming rig and have a very tight budget (two kids that come WAY before my hobbies lol) this is the cooler im looking at deepcool s40 or this one rosewill


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## lexluthermiester (May 16, 2018)

J-Man1990 said:


> I stumbled on this thread while looking for a cheap way of upgrading from my old Dell optiplex 380 that i installed a x5460 in. (775 to 771 mod) I'm now running an hp z400 motherboard with the w3570 @ 3.6ghz! (can push it more but need better cooling)  I have a question tho has anyone on here ever used deepcool cpu coolers before? I'm building a gaming rig and have a very tight budget (two kids that come WAY before my hobbies lol) this is the cooler im looking at deepcool s40 or this one rosewill


This one would be better for what you want to do and for the space it has to fit into;
https://www.amazon.com/DEEPCOOL-GAMMAXX-400-Heatpipes-Compatible/dp/B007JEMXYQ


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## J-Man1990 (May 16, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> This one would be better for what you want to do and for the space it has to fit into;
> https://www.amazon.com/DEEPCOOL-GAMMAXX-400-Heatpipes-Compatible/dp/B007JEMXYQ


Thanks! Ill get some pics of my rig up soon its not the best looking pc but it gets the job done and for what ive got in it the performance is awesome


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## Retrorockit (May 16, 2018)

I have an Opti 380 also. The Zotac GTX1050 Mini, and 1050Ti Mini drop right in. The 4GB Ti runs into a resource conflict in some programs due to the 8GB RAM limit. Keeping an eye on background processes helps.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/6392914
I'm glad to see an HP show up. There's no reason not to take advantage of those also.


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## J-Man1990 (May 16, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I have an Opti 380 also. The Zotac GTX1050 Mini, and 1050Ti Mini drop right in. The 4GB Ti runs into a resource conflict in some programs due to the 8GB RAM limit. Keeping an eye on background processes helps.
> http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/6392914
> I'm glad to see an HP show up. There's no reason not to take advantage of those also.


I really like the z400 motherboard its like 90% atx, if you get the back plate with it like i did the i/o shield is integrated, the biggest problem is to use it with an atx psu you have to mod the 24pin connector as hp uses non standard wiring z400 motherboard wiring  i found this thread which details how to used it in an atx case. I had considered a t3500 motherboard but googling around i found that you need the front i/o board to even power the motherboard on and i couldn't find one for less than $20 (probably could have if i had looked harder but the z400 board was only $5 more than a t3500 board)   
Im running the gtx 660 ti 2gb and 10gb of ram. looking to upgrade that in the future too but dose ok for now. I can game at 1080p medium in most games. What do you think of this cooler deepcool


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 16, 2018)

T3500 board actually doesn't need the front panel board at all.  Been using mine without it for about a year now.


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## J-Man1990 (May 16, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> T3500 board actually doesn't need the front panel board at all.  Been using mine without it for about a year now.


How? I did a little googling but never came up with anyone using that board without the i/o board. It would be good to get a pinout or pic of the wiring for any other budget builders out there


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 16, 2018)

J-Man1990 said:


> How? I did a little googling but never came up with anyone using that board without the i/o board. It would be good to get a pinout or pic of the wiring for any other budget builders out there



I manually found the power-on pins, but never bothered to even hook them up (trying to keep cable clutter at bay).  The board powers on as soon as it receives power from the PSU, so I have just been using the PSU rocker switch to power the system on.  Also...in regards to the proprietary HP 24-pin, were you able to convert the pin-out without issue?  I have worked with that before, and just ended up cutting the wires, instead of removing the pins from the connector, and then running a sleeved extension so I could hide the heatshrink mess behind the motherboard tray.  I have converted tons of power supplies to different standards so I can ditch the proprietary supplies typically used in server and workstation setups.  Some of them I had to pin-out manually as there was no info on the net.  Wish I would have kept all that info somewhere...but most of it is lost.  Considering a Z400 board now though, versus the T3500, just due to the dimensions being a little more reasonable to work into an ATX setup.


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## J-Man1990 (May 16, 2018)

ATM I've just cut and spliced a molex connector to the 24 pin (I'm using a cheap dynex PSU anyway) when I get my "new" PSU (looking at a used t5500 psu thoughts?) I'm going to use one of those 24 pin
extension cables and hide the mess in the back of the case https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Motherboard-Power-Extension/dp/B01DV1Z66C


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## Susquehannock (May 16, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> T3500 board actually doesn't need the front panel board at all.  Been using mine without it for about a year now.


Interesting. When you say not needed do you mean you can continue after alert, or it boots to Windows straight off? Disconnecting the 40-pin from front to main board gives me below. F1 continues to Windows. No biggie really.


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 16, 2018)

I do get the alert, and actually have to hit F2, not F1, enter the BIOS screen, hit exit, it reboots, and then hit F1...not sure why, but that's how it works for me.  If I just hit F1 on boot, it does nothing...either way, I still boot into Windows without the front panel board connected.  Kind of a pain, I guess, if you shutdown your PC alot...I just let mine sleep and leave it on most of the day and only shutdown before bed.  Also, there is probably a setting in BIOS to disable the alert...but haven't even bothered to check...I'll check next reboot and report back.


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## Ttreshh (May 16, 2018)

Great topic, so much info in it. 
Can everyone help me to increase performance of my laptop? 
It has i7-3687U CPU (2 core 2.1Ghz stable/3.1Ghz turbo) TDP 17W, 100Mhz Base frequency. 
Intel ChiefRiver mobo
BIOS/Uefi AMi 4.6.5, Win 10 and some extra cooling (Using my laptop like a PC, so I can have extra fan on opened RAM bay) 
If I can achieve stable 2.5Ghz, it will be so great for my purposes. 
I'm already done all Windows powerplan tweaks and can't find anything interesting in UEFI except Primary plan current value, TCC offset, TDP control (Auto/Normal). 
Although I have some unlocked knobs in ThrottleStop, but I'm not sure about whats better to do. 

Please, let me know, what I can do with my laptop to leave my CPU from "energy saving mode", how Intel decided to do.


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## Retrorockit (May 17, 2018)

Ttreshh said:


> Please, let me know, what I can do with my laptop to leave my CPU from "energy saving mode", how Intel decided to do.


Throttlestop was written for laptop underclocking, Controlling throttling schemes, and extending battery life. Overclocking and especially on Desktop computers with unlocked CPUs was a byproduct. There's a Throttlestop thread at Notebook Review that will have everything you need to know.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/


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## Upowa (May 17, 2018)

I just bought the HP Z400 board and I'm stuck on the ATX power connector wiring. Also, I cannot find where the front panel pinout for the power switch either, If anyone here can help me with that that would be great, I can't find the diagram for it.

Also, I was able to purchased a few cpus to test, W3680 (unlocked), W3570 (unlocked), W3565 (locked). I've only been able to briefly test these on the supermicro X8sti board with throttlestop. I was able to change the turbo multipliers on the unlocked chips with ease. The bios also sees it as unlock so multipliers can be changed to higher values. I want to put some heatsinks on the vrms before running higher multipliers. Putting the W3680 chip into the T3500 board once I fit it into the case. With the Z400 I'm hope I can change the FSB frequencies with setfsb, it has a CV183APAG clock generator, for some locked chips. Running a rx480 8gb on these to test with. Want to see how high I can clock these boards, I'll post the results next.


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## Retrorockit (May 17, 2018)

I hadn't thought about Supermicro. Does the unlocked BIOS give direct control of Voltage on unlocked CPUs or any other settings that aftermarket boards allow? QPI and RAM speed, Voltage? I'm guessing Supermicro is ATX, or EATX form factor. Lenovo is also a player in the workstation market. I'm afraid trying to learn about the hundreds of different Dells has kept me busy. TS overclocking should work on anything that can run an unlocked CPU.


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## J-Man1990 (May 17, 2018)

Upowa said:


> I just bought the HP Z400 board and I'm stuck on the ATX power connector wiring. Also, I cannot find where the front panel pinout for the power switch either, If anyone here can help me with that that would be great, I can't find the diagram for it.
> 
> Also, I was able to purchased a few cpus to test, W3680 (unlocked), W3570 (unlocked), W3565 (locked). I've only been able to briefly test these on the supermicro X8sti board with throttlestop. I was able to change the turbo multipliers on the unlocked chips with ease. The bios also sees it as unlock so multipliers can be changed to higher values. I want to put some heatsinks on the vrms before running higher multipliers. Putting the W3680 chip into the T3500 board once I fit it into the case. With the Z400 I'm hope I can change the FSB frequencies with setfsb, it has a CV183APAG clock generator, for some locked chips. Running a rx480 8gb on these to test with. Want to see how high I can clock these boards, I'll post the results next.


HP Z400 motherboard wiring


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## Retrorockit (May 17, 2018)

I looked at images of the Z400 board and found some with 4 RAM slots, and some with 6. I'd certainly go with the 3 channel version. Also if you want to OC a locked BIOS computer with a locked CPU I would go for the X5687 32nm 4C/8T 3.6GHz CPU. You might look into the T5500 MB also. More chips in the VRM and more chipset and I/O cooling. Interchanges with the T3500 except it uses cheaper RDIMMS, and since X5xxx CPUs are on the menu for this you can add a 2nd one later.


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## J-Man1990 (May 17, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I looked at images of the Z400 board and found some with 4 RAM slots, and some with 6. I'd certainly go with the 3 channel version. Also if you want to OC a locked BIOS computer with a locked CPU I would go for the X5687 32nm 4C/8T 3.6GHz CPU. You might look into the T5500 MB also. More chips in the VRM and more chipset and I/O cooling. Interchanges with the T3500 except it uses cheaper RDIMMS, and since X5xxx CPUs are on the menu for this you can add a 2nd one later.


Dont get the board with 4 ram slots! It doesn't support the 6 core chips (w3680/w3690) doesn't support 3 channel memory and is about the same price as the 6 slot version


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## Retrorockit (May 17, 2018)

Looking at the Z400 6 slot board compared to the T3500 I'm seeing more of a standard ATX layout. It  mounts in the RH side of the case unlike the LH mounted Dell. I'm seeing a 4 pin CPU connector instead of 8 pin on the Dell. Vertically mounted VRM MOSFETs that will be a PITA to add cooling to, and it seems like 4 phase VRM with 4 MOSFETS per choke, vs. 6 phase with 2 MOSFETs per choke on the Dell. Aside from the borked 24 pin PSU pinout it might be a better place to start for the ATX case swappers. I suppose one place to get the added 12V wires needed would be from the 8 pin CPU cable. The CPU cooler looks like the one Dell used in the XPS435MT. I'm guessing it's a generic AVC LGA1366 cooler.
In fact XPS435MT is an ATX LGA1366 board. XPS435T studio 9000 also. No need to reinvent the wheel.
https://www.ebay.com/i/112772037064?chn=ps
or the smaller R849J
https://www.walmart.com/ip/R849J-De...5712&wl11=online&wl12=120520972&wl13=&veh=sem


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## Upowa (May 17, 2018)

J-Man1990 said:


> HP Z400 motherboard wiring


Thanks J-Man!



Retrorockit said:


> Does the unlocked BIOS give direct control of Voltage on unlocked CPUs or any other settings that aftermarket boards allow? QPI and RAM speed, Voltage?


Pretty standard AMI Bios that supermicro runs during the time. There are quite a bit of settings that you can change including QPI and RAM speed, no voltage controls however. You can edit the bios with AMIBCP337 and change the default values. With the unlock cpus, the hidden turbo multiplier menu appears. On locked cpu, it doesn't appear. Download the supermicro bios and open with amibpc337 to see what menus are available. Flashing the bios is easy on this board. This supermicro board in particular has the 4x pci-e slot right behind the 16x pci express slot so it can be a problem for GPUs without cutting some plastic that gets in the way. The vrms are spread apart and no heatsinks on them, supermicro boards usually will come with heatsinks on the VRMs. There are quite a bit of supermicro lga1366 to choose from. The supermicro boards seem to be higher quality compared to the T3500 or Z400, and cost a little more. The Dell 435mt or the 9100 xps boards are nice OEM boards as well, these are FSB adjustable with setfsb. How high can it go is the question. 

What do you guys think of the dual socket boards? Are they worth running 12 cores for anything these days compared to newer  more efficient systems. Anyone run macOS on lga1366s? I know older Mac pros run on lga1366s and they are still quite expensive these days for a 12core system.


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## Retrorockit (May 17, 2018)

My take on SetFSB ( coming from the lazy mans instant OC TS provides) is that i would use TS to get as high as possible with multiplier overclocking, and then use setFSB to tune higher in the smaller increments available there, and add Voltage through TS as needed. This makes RAM timings a secondary concern instead of primary with SetFSB/ BCLK only.
I have such a personal investment in time and parts with Dell stuff that it's hard for me to justify jumping to Supermicro. I know this shows in the examples I give here. But for others with an existing inventory of ATX parts, and conventional overclocking experience it might be a better way to go. Could you post some photos here to give other people some ideas?
 BTW I think Mac OS was a Linux derivative.


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## lexluthermiester (May 18, 2018)

J-Man1990 said:


> Dont get the board with 4 ram slots! It doesn't support the 6 core chips (w3680/w3690) doesn't support 3 channel memory and is about the same price as the 6 slot version


That is incorrect. It doesn't support triple channel ram, true. If it'll take a 1366 Xeon, it'll take any 1366 Xeon so long as the bios has the latest revision.


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## Retrorockit (May 19, 2018)

Her's another Youtube video. A 6 core shootout. Not one of our unlocked CPUs, but X58 X5675 @ 4.5GHz vs. Ryzen 5 2600X vs. i5-8400 on GTX1080Ti.








 And while we're in couch potato mode. An Air Vs. water cooling video.


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 19, 2018)

Any know for sure if W5580 is unlocked?  It can be ran in dual CPU setup, which would be interesting if it was indeed unlocked and potentially overclocked with Throttlest.


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## lexluthermiester (May 19, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Any know for sure if W5580 is unlocked?  It can be ran in dual CPU setup, which would be interesting if it was indeed unlocked and potentially overclocked with Throttlest.


It is not. IIRC, none of the 45nm Gainestown Xeons were unlocked, "officially". You'd be better served by a 32nm Westmere-EP based Xeon such as an X5672 if you want to stay with a quad core. They run cooler and OC better. An X5660, X5670 or X5675 are in a similar price range and off a much better value. All of the Westmere-EP series Xeon's are dual CPU compatible.

A full list of Xeon's are included in the following list;
https://www.techarp.com/guides/workstation-server-cpu-comparison/9/


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## unclewebb (May 19, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Any know for sure if W5580 is unlocked?


I picked up a W5580 recently to answer this question.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/throttlestop-overclocking-desktop-pcs.235975/post-3829491

The W5580 is locked so you cannot overclock it by adjusting the multiplier.


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## Retrorockit (May 20, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Any know for sure if W5580 is unlocked? It can be ran in dual CPU setup, which would be interesting if it was indeed unlocked and potentially overclocked with Throttlest.



It was tested here and we found out it wasn't. The only unlocked dual CPU is the QX9775 LGA771. There were rumors,an article, and a CPUZ validation that pointed to that conclusion, but it isn't so. The QX9775 in dual CPU configuration is hampered by the DDR2 FBDIMMs which can provide good bandwidth in 3 or 4 channel mode but add huge amounts of latency and heat in all configurations to do so. The MB usually requires extra power connectors for the extra CPU and RAM which complicates things further.
The W3570, and W3580 4C/8T 45nm CPUs are unlocked. Their main attraction is very low price. $15-20. Even cheaper than the unlocked LGA775 chips. With HT and 3 channel memory not a bad deal really. But the fastest dual CPU LGA1366 is the X5687 4C/8T 3.60 Ghz.


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## Upowa (May 20, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Her's another Youtube video. A 6 core shootout. Not one of our unlocked CPUs, but X58 X5675



I watch his vids from time to time, but generally I follow the computer tech daily. Pretty awesome how an old 6 core can keep up with today's new systems with a high end gpu. The 4core nehelam with ddr3 can still compete with modern gaming systems. Power efficiency is best with haswell and onward though.

Lga775 lags behind too much due to the DDR2 memory. Putting a 4 core xeon into them is pretty cool through bios modding. I have a P35 board w/E5462 running a radeon 4850. Even now coffee lake cpus can be put into older 100/200 series boards, but not that significant once 300 series boards become cheaper. I think the next Intel cpu will use a new board altogether by next year.


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## Retrorockit (May 20, 2018)

There were some DDR3 LGA775s but 50% more bandwidth from 3 channel memory is hard to compete with. The unlocked Nehalem Xeons cost about  1/4 of an unlocked C2X. I see the prices are going up on the unlocked Gulftowns.  They're just now starting to bring what QX9650s have been going for.


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## T3500 (May 24, 2018)

A W3680 that I got from eBay arrived today and I've had a first go at OC'ing with TS. Tested up to x30 multiplier on all cores step by step. Got 875 on Cinebench at 4GHz; had to up the TDP limit to 180 as the previous run with the TDP at the normal 130 exhibited what I assumed was thermal throttling, the multiplier was jumping up and down. Temps got pretty toasty, yet it wasn't until 80 degrees that the front case fans on the T3500 ramped up at all. This was all without any additional cooling mods. Gonna try with a 80/90mm fan cable-tied to the heatsink and see how much it brings the temps down. I did a Userbenchmark run which gave a single core score lower than what I thought it would get at 4GHz; again the multiplier was jumping up and down so it didn't stick at 4GHz the whole time, despite the 180W TDP limit. Might this be because the test isn't very demanding, and it felt that full turbo wasn't needed?


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## unclewebb (May 25, 2018)

Here is a T3500 - W3680 Cinebench run for comparison.






I think I ran this while using the 31 multiplier.  Not 100% Prime stable at this speed but it was stable enough for Cinebench.  A little extra  air flow through the OEM heatsink can make a big difference.



T3500 said:


> what I assumed was thermal throttling


Technically it is not thermal throttling.  Intel CPUs also throttle based on power consumption.  You might have to bump up the TDC a little too.  Do whatever is necessary to keep the multi from sagging down while under load.  Also make sure you are using the Windows High Performance power profile with the Minimum processor state set to 100%.  Disable C1E too while testing.


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## Retrorockit (May 25, 2018)

Some of the guys said they got Speedfan to work on these.


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## T3500 (May 25, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Some of the guys said they got Speedfan to work on these.



Yeah it does on mine, but it doesn't always respond to speed change commands and it makes the whole pc laggy, it freezes for a split second at regular intervals when it's running


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## Retrorockit (May 25, 2018)

Back on page 8 there's a monster fan and cooler swap. The last photo was supposed to be first. So if you run the slideshow forward from the end it makes sense. I've been busy the past month and never got it wired up and running. That fan doesn't speed up either. It just doesn't need to. If you liked that you'll love page 9.


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## T3500 (May 25, 2018)

Yeah that's quite a hefty heatsink you've got there! You had to remove the OEM backplate to mount it yes? How did you keep the CPU retention bracket in place? AFAIK it's attached by screws that go through the mobo into the backplate


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## Retrorockit (May 25, 2018)

No it screws down on the Dell studs. The Thermalright stuff is the same thread size. The larger Ninja 4 cooler had to use TR parts to mount it. A threaded spacer goes on the MB studs, then the bracket mounts on top of that with bolts. I did shim it a little between the crossbar and the heatsink with metal tape, but nothing major.
 If you liked that you'll  love page 9.


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 25, 2018)

T3500 said:


> Yeah that's quite a hefty heatsink you've got there! You had to remove the OEM backplate to mount it yes? How did you keep the CPU retention bracket in place? AFAIK it's attached by screws that go through the mobo into the backplate


I removed the OEM backplate on my T3500 board...I can't specifically remember what I used to hold the CPU retention bracket in place, but I do remember I had to remove it and remount...if you're really stuck, I can have a better look and see how I did it...I know I can mount any cooler now with the backplate removed, and am currently using a AIO liquid cooler.


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## T3500 (May 25, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> I removed the OEM backplate on my T3500 board...I can't specifically remember what I used to hold the CPU retention bracket in place, but I do remember I had to remove it and remount...if you're really stuck, I can have a better look and see how I did it...I know I can mount any cooler now with the backplate removed, and am currently using a AIO liquid cooler.



Nice, I've got my eye on an AIO on eBay at the moment, and I don't think it'll mount on the Dell plate's screws


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## Aaron_Henderson (May 26, 2018)

T3500 said:


> Nice, I've got my eye on an AIO on eBay at the moment, and I don't think it'll mount on the Dell plate's screws


Got my AIO for $10 Canadian on a local classified site (Kijiji.ca), might want to check for a similar deal in your area!


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## T3500 (May 28, 2018)

Question: With my combo of TS + W3680 + Dell mobo there is no option to change voltage in TS (nor does CPU-Z report it). So when OC'ing by upping the multiplier, is the voltage being increased behind-the-scenes so to speak to support the faster speed, or is the voltage staying the same?


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## unclewebb (May 28, 2018)

T3500 said:


> is the voltage being increased behind-the-scenes so to speak


Good question.  The amount of voltage increase is somewhere between minimal and none.  The amount of voltage increase when overclocking, if there is any, is not enough to run a W3680 at what it is truly capable of. 

For comparison, I have a very similar but locked W3670 installed in an EVGA board with full voltage adjustment.  In a T3500, a typical W3680 is probably going to max out at somewhere around 4000 MHz to 4133 MHz due to the limited CPU voltage.  On the EVGA board with the CPU voltage set sky high, a similar W3670 can run at 4700 MHz. 






X58 boards with voltage control are usually not cheap on EBay.  You can buy an entire T3500 system with memory for less than the cost of a typical X58 board.  If you are on a limited budget, I find that the T3500 is a good compromise.


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## dorsetknob (May 28, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> X58 boards with voltage control are usually not cheap on EBay.


Typicaly they cost as much or more now than when they were 1st released.
its one of the few "vintage parts that have held or increased in value"


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## T3500 (May 28, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> Good question.  The amount of voltage increase is somewhere between minimal and none.  The amount of voltage increase when overclocking, if there is any, is not enough to run a W3680 at what it is truly capable of.
> 
> For comparison, I have a very similar but locked W3670 installed in an EVGA board with full voltage adjustment.  In a T3500, a typical W3680 is probably going to max out at somewhere around 4000 MHz to 4133 MHz due to the limited CPU voltage.  On the EVGA board with the CPU voltage set sky high, a similar W3670 can run at 4700 MHz.
> 
> ...



That's interesting, thanks! I can get to 4.27 GHz and stay stable in Cinebench, but beyond that it gives a BSOD - so similar to what you say. I've not tested/stressed with anything else yet.


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## Retrorockit (May 29, 2018)

Here  is Unclewebbs earlier post on this.


unclewebb said:


> Software voltage control was part of the Core 2 design.  When Intel released the first generation Core i, simple voltage control was removed.  I think it was not until the 4th Gen Haswell that voltage control returned as part of their Fully Integrated Voltage Regulator (FIVR).
> 
> When you go into the bios on a Dell T3500, there is no option available to increase the voltage going to the CPU.  The EVGA Classified3 X58 board has a ridiculous number of voltage control options so you can finely adjust the voltage going to every part of the CPU.  Luckily you can leave most of these voltage settings on AUTO and still get great results.
> 
> ...


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## Retrorockit (May 31, 2018)

I've been looking into RDIMMs since we're getting into the T5500 MB swap here, and I supect ther may be an issue for TS OVerclocking there. I posted the long version in the Dell Workstation Owners Club. https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/dell-workstation-owners-club.243124/page-2
Basically RDIMMs are intended for dual CPU systems and servers. With memory controller on the CPU it seems the single CPU Xeons don't support RDIMMs. The DUAL CPU Xeons do.
So the unlocked Xeons will probably require UDIMMs even if the system supports RDIMMs. Single CPU systems using dual CPU Xeons should be OK with RDIMMs ( if the MB supports them), but can't be TS overclocked.
 I'm seeing written reports (but no evidence) that 3600 series Xeons support RDIMMs, I'm also seeing W3680 having issues with it in HP workstations. Since I've already bought some I guess I'll find out the hard way. All I could get out of Crucial.com was "Xeons USUALLY support RDIMM".


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## TechyTed (Jun 1, 2018)

Hi...I’ve been lurking on this thread for a while and you folks have really got me interested!

I had already ordered some  LGA 1136 parts off fleabay and it turns out you all are doing exactly what I was thinking.

Low budget, high performance.  TS is obviously the key component to make it happen.

Afte reading here, I jumped on a Dell T5500 motherboard deal, so hopefully I can get with the fun soon.

Waiting for it to arrive...


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## Retrorockit (Jun 1, 2018)

I hope you realize that the Dell T5500 MB isn't ATX. If you don't have a T3500/ 5500 to put it in you've got some work to do.


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## TechyTed (Jun 1, 2018)

Yes, I had read enough to know that much.  

I am keeping my eyes open for a T3500 or T5500 locally, and imagine that’s what I will start playing with.

I appreciate all great info you have been sharing.

That T3500 build you have going is awesome!


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## Retrorockit (Jun 1, 2018)

Thanx. I've been too busy lately to finish it. I'll get back to it soon.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 1, 2018)

TechyTed said:


> Hi...I’ve been lurking on this thread for a while and you folks have really got me interested!


Welcome to the frey! 


TechyTed said:


> I had already ordered some LGA 1136 parts


Guessing you meant 1366? 


TechyTed said:


> Afte reading here, I jumped on a Dell T5500 motherboard deal, so hopefully I can get with the fun soon.


 Do you already have a pair of Xeons for it?


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## Retrorockit (Jun 1, 2018)

For overclocking with TS only the unlocked single CPUs apply. So it will have to run w/o the 2nd CPU riser board for this to work.
Be aware that as Susqehannok discovered if you don't have a late enough BIOS it won't boot with the newer 6 cores. So it's possible you may need a Nehalem to get it going.


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## TechyTed (Jun 1, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> Welcome to the frey!
> 
> Guessing you meant 1366?
> 
> Do you already have a pair of Xeons for it?



Um yah, let’s try 1366 

I am a bit dyslexic on socket numbers obviously. 

And no, I havent gotten to the dual CPU setup yet, just a bare bones test rig at this point.

Still waiting for it to show up actually.  

Its supposed to have an E5520 with it.  So we will see if we can get it to POST with that, update the BIOS and hope a better CPU comes our way.



Aaron_Henderson said:


> Anyone notice the price jump on the T3500 boards?  They are up at $80 Canadian now from $60 less than a month ago...



Yeah I just bought my T5500 motherboard a few days ago, and it was cheaper than most of the T3500 boards I saw.  Looks like the cheapest way on ebay to get a new MB might be to find somebody offering free shipping on a stripped down barebones!

I think several people on this forum have mentioned the best deals on T3500s are to try to find them locally.  Havent seen one around here yet!


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jun 2, 2018)

TechyTed said:


> Um yah, let’s try 1366
> 
> I am a bit dyslexic on socket numbers obviously.
> 
> ...



There is one for sale for $175 here locally, but not much I want out of it other than the board...still cheaper just to go the "buy a board from Ebay" route.  Several others are for sale, but for $300+.


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## Retrorockit (Jun 3, 2018)

If you look on Ebay, or Craigslist you'l be paying retail. Try the local recyclers. They're common usually common there.

I haven't heard back from Susquehannock about the unlocked Xeon on his T5500. The RDIMMs might be an issue. I might go back to plan A with the known good T3500 for now.
I just ran through 20 pages of userbenchmark runs for the T5500 and didn't see a single W3000 series Xeon running. I did see X,W,E,L 5000 series running.

I GUESS IT'S TIME FOR THE DISCLAIMER. A LOT OF WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE IS EXPERIMENTAL IN NATURE. THAT MEANS IT MAY HAVE NEVER BEEN TRIED BEFORE AND WE DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL WORK OR NOT. OVERCLOCKING THE T5500 IS IN THAT CATEGORY. SO JUST BECAUSE YOU SEE US DISCUSSING SOMETHING HERE DOESN'T  MEAN IT WORKS.
  What is known to work is the Dell  T3500 and any of the unlocked LGA1366 CPUs. Basically if the system will boot with an unlocked CPU Throttlestop should be able to overclock it.

On X58 systems all the CPUs run,i7, 3500,3600 series Xeons, 5500,5600 series. It looked like they were all interchangeable, but the dual CPU chipset may be more particular.


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## Retrorockit (Jun 6, 2018)

I've mentioned the <95W  i7 875X before. It seems the Xeon X3470 is the analog to that. I don't know if it's unlocked or not.  LGA1156 Xeons don't get much attention. I'm seeing a couple raised multipliers at CPUZ but that isn't always so. Ill investigate further.


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## unclewebb (Jun 6, 2018)

Intel lists a Core i7-875K.

https://ark.intel.com/products/48499/Intel-Core-i7-875K-Processor-8M-Cache-2_93-GHz

The K usually means an unlocked multiplier.  In theory ThrottleStop should support these but I do not have any first hand experience with this CPU generation.


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## Retrorockit (Jun 6, 2018)

The X3470 and the i7 870 were released at the same time Q3 '09, the i7 875K was released Q2 '10 so didn't exist yet. So the x3470 must be an analog of the regular i7 and not the Extreme series.
 No unlocked 1156 Xeons so far. LGA1156 was parallel with LGA1366 for office and consumer systems. 2 channel DDR3 memory is the big difference and 45nm CPUs. Son of LGA775 basically.


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## TechyTed (Jun 6, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> There is one for sale for $175 here locally, but not much I want out of it other than the board...still cheaper just to go the "buy a board from Ebay" route.  Several others are for sale, but for $300+.



I’ve done a lot of searching for a T3500 in this local area and a fifty mile radius.  This is not a major metro area, but not a backwater either.  Lots of engineering and CAD work goes on here, so you would have thought there was a number of Dells like this, but I can’t seem to find them.  Appears the HP equivalent was more plentiful here.  Anyway, there are some “locally” in Atlanta which is a 4 hour drive or Memphis which is a 5 hour drive.  Prices are $200 for a pretty barebones box, but a few are listed with the W3680 CPU so that might be worth picking up.


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## Retrorockit (Jun 6, 2018)

The Z400 can produce similar results to the T3500. Here are some userbenchmark.com results. None of these are TS as far as i know. Maybe XTU tuning.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/System/HP-Z400-Workstation/67
So i think there's more to be had there.
I'm trying to recruit an HP workstation guru to this site but I haven't heard back from him.
There is a 4 RAM socket version, and a 6 RAM socket version so be careful if you go that way. MB versions seem to be a recurring theme with HP workstations.

This is a TS overclock to 4.1 Ghz Z400 with W/3680 1080Ti.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/7053914
Here's how it happened.
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3496734/throttlestop-z400.html

I think I have good news guys. A German seller offering Dell T5500 with W3690 CPUs. He offers them single CPU and W series XEON only!
https://buerorechner24.de/T5500-Workstation-with-1-Processor-configurable


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## TechyTed (Jun 6, 2018)

There is a guy on eBay who sells W3680 “upgrade kits” for T3500 and T5500...basically a CPU and some thermal paste.  His price is way high and obviously its for a single CPU config only.  I mean to email and ask if it works with T5500 running RDIMM memory.  I know thats still a question at least in my mind.  Otherwise seems to confirm W36xx works in a T5500 MB.  Just may also require UDIMMs.  And the BIOS update of course.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jun 6, 2018)

Finally have the money to build my girlfriend a PC (currently uses a Mac)...thinking of going with the Z400 board vs T3500 due to it being easier to mount inside a traditional ATX case...I know the 24-pin is not standard, but someone in this thread shared the pinout...anything else I should worry about when running just the bare board sans the rest of the Z400 system?  Does it boot without stock fans?  Does it boot without front panel connected?  If these are unknowns, I'll stick with the T3500 board and just do the same as I already have with my current setup.  Also finally ordering a W3570, another 2GB stick of RAM, and an SSD for my own PC.


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## J-Man1990 (Jun 7, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Finally have the money to build my girlfriend a PC (currently uses a Mac)...thinking of going with the Z400 board vs T3500 due to it being easier to mount inside a traditional ATX case...I know the 24-pin is not standard, but someone in this thread shared the pinout...anything else I should worry about when running just the bare board sans the rest of the Z400 system?  Does it boot without stock fans?  Does it boot without front panel connected?  If these are unknowns, I'll stick with the T3500 board and just do the same as I already have with my current setup.  Also finally ordering a W3570, another 2GB stick of RAM, and an SSD for my own PC.



I built my current gaming pc from a Z400 board. It boots fine without any of the stock Z400 parts aside from having to press F1 to boot because it doesn't detect fans and the usb header.  This page has the pinouts for that board to fix all the post errors


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## Retrorockit (Jun 7, 2018)

I came across a couple of Supermicro ATX X58 boards. X8SAX, and C7X58. Prices vary wildly.
https://www.wiredzone.com/mmenglish/Others/10018875-Manual.PDF
The C7X58 version supports XMP RAM settings in the BIOS (page 76). It did say the front I/O was intended for Supermicro cases.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jun 7, 2018)

Got a complete Z400 being delivered to me later today...comes with 8GB RAM, W3565, 120GB SSD, 1TB HDD...going to swap it all into another case and call it done for now.  Eventually it will get a W3570 like my T3500 build, but want to test it with mine first.  Also just picked up a GTX 770 to go with the Z400.  So it should be up and running later tonight.


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## TechyTed (Jun 7, 2018)

Would be interesting to see some benchmarks with TS bump up on the Z400 vs. T3500 with same processor installed.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jun 7, 2018)

Z400 is here...just need to go pick up an 8-pin PCIe adapter so I can get the GTX 770 installed.  Going to pick up a case for it too...not sure if I need to get a different PSU yet or not, I am hoping I can make the stock one fit a standard ATX case.  We will see...

Specs -
Intel Xeon W3565 (will be replaced with W3570 after I test with mine)
Z400 motherboard
4x2GB DDR3 (upgrade to 12GB eventually)
120GB SSD + 1TB HDD (will be stealing these for my T3500 build and installing my old drives in this Z400)
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 770 2GB
Deepcool Dukase V3 white window (brand new)
3 x pink LED fans
23" 1920x1080P monitor

Total is around $400 Canadian pesos...she also wants a mechanical keyboard...might have to wait for that though.


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## Retrorockit (Jun 7, 2018)

TechyTed said:


> Would be interesting to see some benchmarks with TS bump up on the Z400 vs. T3500 with same processor installed.



Z4400
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/7053914
T3500
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/7540614
 The difference here may be different levels of stability testing between the 2 users.


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## unclewebb (Jun 8, 2018)

I think the huge difference in multi-core performance between those two userbenchmark runs is because the W3680 in the T3500 had the TDP cranked way up to avoid throttling.  This allowed the W3680 to run at full speed regardless of load or how many cores were active.  These CPUs are bullet proof as long as they are properly cooled.  It is also hard to hurt one when the CPU voltage is limited to stock Intel spec.


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## J-Man1990 (Jun 8, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Z400 is here...just need to go pick up an 8-pin PCIe adapter so I can get the GTX 770 installed.  Going to pick up a case for it too...not sure if I need to get a different PSU yet or not, I am hoping I can make the stock one fit a standard ATX case.  We will see...
> 
> Specs -
> Intel Xeon W3565 (will be replaced with W3570 after I test with mine)
> ...



I just got this one https://www.amazon.com/Redragon-KUM...s&keywords=reddragon+keyboard+mechanical&th=1 its a good solid keyboard for the price


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jun 8, 2018)

J-Man1990 said:


> I just got this one https://www.amazon.com/Redragon-KUMARA-Backlit-Mechanical-Keyboard/dp/B01LXD7TP9/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1528459172&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=reddragon+keyboard+mechanical&th=1 its a good solid keyboard for the price



I was looking at that same board...does it use typical Cherry keycap compatible switches?  She really wants custom keycaps...


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## J-Man1990 (Jun 8, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> I was looking at that same board...does it use typical Cherry keycap compatible switches?  She really wants custom keycaps...



I really dont know


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jun 8, 2018)

Ended up having to get an ATX PSU as the stock Z400 PSU wouldn't fit in the case I bought...but the transplant is nearly complete.  Got it booting after having to make a 24-pin adapter cable, just have a few things to finish up and it's ready to use.  Just waiting on the fans and lighting to arrive.


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## Retrorockit (Jun 9, 2018)

The PSU swap with Dells is one way also. The workstation PSUs are about 1/2" thicker with the fan(s) on the end facing the external drive bays. ATX usually has the fan on the bottom which allows a bigger quieter fan, and a thinner PSU. So ATX being smaller fits in workstations but not the other way around.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jun 10, 2018)

Got it all up and running, my gf has been using the past day or so and loves it, even without the pink stuff lol  Still waiting on W3570 to show in the mail to test that, and might put up some photos of the new build.


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## Retrorockit (Jun 10, 2018)

Here are some W3570 at userbecnhmark.com The fastest one is 4GHz.
http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/SpeedTest/12630/IntelR-XeonR-CPU-----------W3570----320GHz
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/9012876


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## TechyTed (Jun 10, 2018)

Well like anyone needed confirmation, TS had very little effect on my E5520 Xeon with the locked down BIOS of the T5500.  Hope to get an unlocked W3680 someday!  (Grin)


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jun 11, 2018)

Photo of the Z400 build I did for my gf...still waiting on the pink fans I ordered, and some sleeved extensions, but here's how it sits atm -






- HP Z400 motherboard 
- Xeon W3565 
- 8GB RAM
 - Gigabyte GTX 770 Windforce 
- DeepCool Dukase White 
- Corsair VS450 
- DeepCool Gammaxx 300 
- 160 HDD + 320GB HDD


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## TechyTed (Jun 12, 2018)

Wow that’s a big case!   You think a T5500 motherboard would fit in there?


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jun 12, 2018)

TechyTed said:


> Wow that’s a big case!   You think a T5500 motherboard would fit in there?



Possibly...but would more than likely need to drill out the rivets and remove the 5.25" bays...but the T5500 board will fit in most ATX cases if you do that...so yeah.  It's a nice case for what I paid for it...was $55 Canadian on sale from $80.


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## TechyTed (Jun 12, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Possibly...but would more than likely need to drill out the rivets and remove the 5.25" bays...but the T5500 board will fit in most ATX cases if you do that...so yeah.  It's a nice case for what I paid for it...was $55 Canadian on sale from $80.




Hmmm...on Newegg,  the specs for the white case imply that the 5.25 drive case is now removable. 
Wonder if that is a factory mod on the latest versions? They may have switched from rivets to screws?

There is a place about 40 miles from me that is selling one in the box for about the same price ($45 USD).  It’s a one off deal....it’s the black one.  Even if I have to mod it some, I can drill out the rivets, no problem.  If I get some time this coming weekend, may take a drive up and see if they still have it for sale.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jun 12, 2018)

I forgot to say when I posted the photo of the Z400 build...the total cost was only $370 Canadian!



TechyTed said:


> Hmmm...on Newegg,  the specs for the white case imply that the 5.25 drive case is now removable.
> Wonder if that is a factory mod on the latest versions? They may have switched from rivets to screws?
> 
> There is a place about 40 miles from me that is selling one in the box for about the same price ($45 USD).  It’s a one off deal....it’s the black one.  Even if I have to mod it some, I can drill out the rivets, no problem.  If I get some time this coming weekend, may take a drive up and see if they still have it for sale.



I didn't really look all that closely at how the 5.25" bays are attached...perhaps it does use screws...I just assumed rivets.  Without taking the case apart...it does look to use screws.  My eyes aren't the best, and I was using a flashlight to just peek through the sidepanel...but yeah, I think you are right about the screws vs rivets!


----------



## TechyTed (Jun 13, 2018)

Well seeing your white version, maybe I should hold out for that?  The Dukase looks like a good deal for the price.  Its about $56usd right now on sale @ newegg.  Thats the shipped price.  Not bad.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jun 13, 2018)

TechyTed said:


> Well seeing your white version, maybe I should hold out for that?  The Dukase looks like a good deal for the price.  Its about $56usd right now on sale @ newegg.  Thats the shipped price.  Not bad.



I like the black version too...I only got the white because my girlfriend wanted a pink and white themed build.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jun 17, 2018)

I just bought a $40 875W T5500 PSU with the  T5500 harness. I also bought a $10 adapter to use the 2nd 8pin EPS (CPU) cable for a 6+2 GPU cable. It already has 2- 6pin PCIe cables. They can be adapted to an 8 pin PCIe also. So in a single CPU situation, which all of the TS overclocks will be, I can run either 2- 8pin GPUs, or one up to 2x8 pin GPU.
 If anyone is wondering why not just adapt the 2-6pin PCIe to 2-8pin PCIe like an aftermarket PSU. The reason is the 12V. power is split into 5 separate 18A. rails, so you need to respect the amount of power budgeted to each existing connector. On a single rail aftermarket PSU you can just use adapters up to the maximum power limit.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jul 3, 2018)

Finally got my W3570 in the mail...installed it into my T3500, and was able to get 4GHz (30x multi) with Throttlestop, but wasn't stable, so had to drop back to 3.86GHz (29x multi)...is there anything I can do to get 4GHz stable?  I am happy with it anyway, but if there is a setting I missed or something...still going to test on Z400 system as well.


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 3, 2018)

You cannot adjust core voltage on the T3500 so it will be impossible to overclock to the max without more voltage.  Maybe years from now some smart guy will find a way to short out the CPU socket and find a way to deliver more voltage so the unlocked CPUs can reach their full potential.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jul 3, 2018)

The Voltage isn't controlled directly. You're kind of stuck with the auto settings the CPU allows. But TDP ( Total Developed Power in Watts), and TDC (Total Developed Current in Amps) can have their limits raised. Increased cooling might allow more headroom, but the fact is we're all learning how to do this here. I've heard that 4GHz is about all the 45nm CPUs are good for.
Maybe some good old pinmods are needed.


----------



## TechyTed (Jul 4, 2018)

Sounds pretty good if you are getting 3.8 ghz on a chip using the stock cooler?

I might pick one of those ....like $20 - $25 usd on ebay from China?





Retrorockit said:


> ...
> Maybe some good old pinmods are needed.



I have searched but can’t find any CPU pinmod information for the socket 1366 Xeons.  At least not like the simple ones used on LGA 775/771 chips.  There was some discussion about this years ago, which was all I could find.  But maybe there are hidden tricks yet to be discovered.

An old forum thread:

http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?t=94220


----------



## Retrorockit (Jul 4, 2018)

I've never seen any listed, but the VID pinout is in the CPU spec. sheet at Intel. The VID mods never were really easy to copy because different CPUs had differnet starting Voltages to mod from. So there was always an element of start from theory and mod from that. Different versions of LGA 775 also had 2 diiferent VID tables they used and there was a pin that selected that. I wouldn't be surprised if the 45nm and 32nm CPUs differed there also. The unlocked motherboard guys have no need for them. The other Voltmod would be spoofing the feedback pin on the VRM controller chip with a variable pulldown resistor. This requires a Voltmeter readout to be installed because the MB isn't aware of the change.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jul 4, 2018)

TechyTed said:


> Sounds pretty good if you are getting 3.8 ghz on a chip using the stock cooler?
> 
> I might pick one of those ....like $20 - $25 usd on ebay from China?



Actually using a AIO water cooler...CoolIt Eco something rather...just a 120mm radiator.  It doesn't run the greatest the way I have my fans setup currently, waiting on some more 120mm fans in the mail to fix that.  Temps go up to 80 C at 4GHz, hoping the new fans bring that down a notch.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jul 4, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Actually using a AIO water cooler...CoolIt Eco something rather...just a 120mm radiator. It doesn't run the greatest the way I have my fans setup currently, waiting on some more 120mm fans in the mail to fix that. Temps go up to 80 C at 4GHz, hoping the new fans bring that down a notch.


 Water cooling  isn't "colder" than air cooling. They both more or less bring the Temperature down to ambient to a greater or lesser degree. The only advantage water has is it can get bigger, and have more fans than air. Also the heat can be dumped remotely. A 120mm AIO isn't any better than a good 120mm air cooler.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jul 4, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Water cooling  isn't "colder" than air cooling. They both more or less bring the Temperature down to ambient to a greater or lesser degree. The only advantage water has is it can get bigger, and have more fans than air. Also the heat can be dumped remotely. A 120mm AIO isn't any better than a good 120mm air cooler.


I know this...but I picked up the AIO for $10 Canadian...it works well.  It's just that it only has a single 120mm fan on it currently, and it's low powered fan, and I am using the rad spot as an exhaust, so it's pushing warm case air through the rad.  When my new fans come in will be switching some things around.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jul 4, 2018)

I use lots of $10-$20 parts to cool my rigs also. My favorite fan is the Delta AFC1512DG  150x50mm 1.8A. 256CFM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/dell-preci...327223?hash=item361b7bb977:g:zy8AAOSw6YtZUvqn


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## TechyTed (Jul 4, 2018)

Does that fan plug into the T3500 mb like the stock one?  I remember you mentioned a larger Dell fan ealier in this thread that you replaced the stock fan.

When I can find some spare time I hope to get the T5500 mb moved  into the T3500 case that I bought and move foward on that build.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 4, 2018)

TechyTed said:


> Well like anyone needed confirmation, TS had very little effect on my E5520 Xeon with the locked down BIOS of the T5500. Hope to get an unlocked W3680 someday! (Grin)


You weren't at least able to lock the CPU to it's max TB speed?


----------



## TechyTed (Jul 4, 2018)

Yes, I was able to bump it to the Turboboost speed.  But I guess I should have said the multiplier is locked.

Not really news, just confirmation.  (Grin)


----------



## Retrorockit (Jul 5, 2018)

TechyTed said:


> Does that fan plug into the T3500 mb like the stock one?  I remember you mentioned a larger Dell fan ealier in this thread that you replaced the stock fan.
> 
> I've used that fan on the stock fan header in Dimensions, and Optiplexes. But they came with up to 1.6A. fans anyway. The T3500 comes with 2x .8A. fans so some caution is advised.
> I would make a splitter and use both fan headers to power the big fan (just 1 CPU PWM wire, but 2 RPM sensor wires) and run the card cage fan from the optional HDD fan header.
> Most people here just stick an extra fan on the CPU cooler and call it a day.


----------



## J-Man1990 (Jul 6, 2018)

I've got a bit of a problem. I just bought a T3500 and a w3570 with the intent to overclock and flip it. Problem is i cant overclock it at all even the slightest bump causes it to crash. Not sure if I've got a bad cpu or something set wrong in the bios. I have a Hp z400 with the same cpu and can run at 4ghz no problem thought about testing this cpu in my rig but really didnt want to tare it down if i dont have to


----------



## Retrorockit (Jul 6, 2018)

J-Man1990 said:


> I've got a bit of a problem. I just bought a T3500 and a w3570 with the intent to overclock and flip it. Problem is i cant overclock it at all even the slightest bump causes it to crash. Not sure if I've got a bad cpu or something set wrong in the bios. I have a Hp z400 with the same cpu and can run at 4ghz no problem thought about testing this cpu in my rig but really didnt want to tare it down if i dont have to


The Dell should have a 4 LED diagnostic display. Are there any codes displayed there? If so see page 12 here.
https://downloads.dell.com/manuals/...tion/precision-t3500_service manual_en-us.pdf


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## J-Man1990 (Jul 6, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> The Dell should have a 4 LED diagnostic display. Are there any codes displayed there? If so see page 12 here.
> https://downloads.dell.com/manuals/all-products/esuprt_desktop/esuprt_dell_precision_workstation/precision-t3500_service manual_en-us.pdf



Thanks ill check that out when i get home

Edit: Finally home from work. Checked the PC and no error codes what so ever


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 7, 2018)

Does the BIOS give the option to untie the straps?
You may be overclocking the Pci-e as well, causing it to crash.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jul 7, 2018)

The Dell BIOS has no useful options for overclocking. The Throttlestop method operates in Windows, and raises just the multiplier, and "Power Limit" settings that an unlocked CPU allows.
 The RAM timings and PCIe aren't affected.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jul 7, 2018)

My girlfriend's pink fans arrived...








J-Man1990 said:


> I've got a bit of a problem. I just bought a T3500 and a w3570 with the intent to overclock and flip it. Problem is i cant overclock it at all even the slightest bump causes it to crash. Not sure if I've got a bad cpu or something set wrong in the bios. I have a Hp z400 with the same cpu and can run at 4ghz no problem thought about testing this cpu in my rig but really didnt want to tare it down if i dont have to



That's strange...I recently added a W3570 to my T3500 setup..I am sitting at 3.86GHz...all I did was use the TRL and TPL tabs in Throttlestop and that's it.


----------



## BouziGolouM (Jul 12, 2018)

Running a t3500 with a xeon w3570 since launch and been able to have a stable oc with a multiplier of x29(3.77gh) @75c but still able to push him to x30 {3.999ghz). Paired with a 1080ti and it can eat everything at ultra 1080p (35%load gaming GTAV at ultra everything). That thing is still running really well for being and old and "cough" obsolete "cough" hardware.

Waiting on a w3690 to be delivered and can't wait to see what i can offer. I'm happy I've found people interested in it, and also glad i didn't spend thousands more just for a little extra fps i won't notice.



Aaron_Henderson said:


> I do get the alert, and actually have to hit F2, not F1, enter the BIOS screen, hit exit, it reboots, and then hit F1...not sure why, but that's how it works for me.  If I just hit F1 on boot, it does nothing...either way, I still boot into Windows without the front panel board connected.  Kind of a pain, I guess, if you shutdown your PC alot...I just let mine sleep and leave it on most of the day and only shutdown before bed.  Also, there is probably a setting in BIOS to disable the alert...but haven't even bothered to check...I'll check next reboot and report back.


There is one, was tired of doing f1 manually during updates and the annoying *beeps*. Was useful to had the alerts on when changing my ram as it will still boot with some ram errors when alerts are disabled



Aaron_Henderson said:


> Finally have the money to build my girlfriend a PC (currently uses a Mac)...thinking of going with the Z400 board vs T3500 due to it being easier to mount inside a traditional ATX case...I know the 24-pin is not standard, but someone in this thread shared the pinout...anything else I should worry about when running just the bare board sans the rest of the Z400 system?  Does it boot without stock fans?  Does it boot without front panel connected?  If these are unknowns, I'll stick with the T3500 board and just do the same as I already have with my current setup.  Also finally ordering a W3570, another 2GB stick of RAM, and an SSD for my own PC.


It does boot without the control panel. Easiest trick is to get any decent mid tower, screw every screw that you can screw (mines been sitting on 4 screws for 3 years without problem). Put a decent branded psu of your choice. Use the rear on/off button on the psu as your switch. I do need sometimes to flush all power from it to restart it this way.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jul 12, 2018)

BouziGolouM said:


> Running a t3500 with a xeon w3570 since launch and been able to have a stable oc with a multiplier of x29(3.77gh) @75c but still able to push him to x30 {3.999ghz). Paired with a 1080ti and it can eat everything at ultra 1080p (35%load gaming GTAV at ultra everything). That thing is still running really well for being and old and "cough" obsolete "cough" hardware.
> 
> Waiting on a w3690 to be delivered and can't wait to see what i can offer. I'm happy I've found people interested in it, and also glad i didn't spend thousands more just for a little extra fps i won't notice.
> 
> ...



Check my build in this thread...I've been using just the T3500 board in a Corsair Carbide Spec-01 since first setup.  I literally just picked up a board off of Ebay and installed into this case.  Running an AIO liquid cooler on the CPU.  And been using the PSU rocker switch as power since I put it all together lol  I did find the pinout for the front panel power button, but forget it now...I build a similar system based on a Z400 board for my girlfriend that has the proper power switch hooked up though.  Make sure to let us know how it goes with the W3690 though!  I am eventually going to do the same, get an unlocked 6 core for my T3500 setup, and move the 3.86GHz W3570 to my girlfriend's PC.  You should share some photos of your build here!


----------



## BouziGolouM (Jul 13, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Check my build in this thread...I've been using just the T3500 board in a Corsair Carbide Spec-01 since first setup.  I literally just picked up a board off of Ebay and installed into this case.  Running an AIO liquid cooler on the CPU.  And been using the PSU rocker switch as power since I put it all together lol  I did find the pinout for the front panel power button, but forget it now...I build a similar system based on a Z400 board for my girlfriend that has the proper power switch hooked up though.  Make sure to let us know how it goes with the W3690 though!  I am eventually going to do the same, get an unlocked 6 core for my T3500 setup, and move the 3.86GHz W3570 to my girlfriend's PC.  You should share some photos of your build here!


Seems you got front USB working on the Z400, know where are the headers located on the t3500, didn't really fucked about it (too small to read) but since i see it can work... Do you have power button working? I'm using the PSU switch and tired of that, can't find the pinout layout, tried myself but never found out.

Just wondering how well it went for installing the AIO. I had to create my own custom bracket to put an CM Evo 212.



J-Man1990 said:


> I've got a bit of a problem. I just bought a T3500 and a w3570 with the intent to overclock and flip it. Problem is i cant overclock it at all even the slightest bump causes it to crash. Not sure if I've got a bad cpu or something set wrong in the bios. I have a Hp z400 with the same cpu and can run at 4ghz no problem thought about testing this cpu in my rig but really didnt want to tare it down if i dont have to


Does fans start spinning like crazy? Think might be overheating, it wouldn't OC or be at 100% load for too long time before crashing.


----------



## J-Man1990 (Jul 13, 2018)

BouziGolouM said:


> Seems you got front USB working on the Z400, know where are the headers located on the t3500, didn't really fucked about it (too small to read) but since i see it can work... Do you have power button working? I'm using the PSU switch and tired of that, can't find the pinout layout, tried myself but never found out.
> 
> Just wondering how well it went for installing the AIO. I had to create my own custom bracket to put an CM Evo 212.
> 
> ...



No the fans are normal and Ive checked the temps they get up to around 75c but thats normal (its HOT where i live) I put the cpu in my personal rig and tried overclocking and while it didnt crash instantly i could only clock it to 3.6 ghz so im guessing i just lost the silicone lottery on this cpu


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jul 18, 2018)

Just now noticing the W3680 is 32nm vs my W3570 45nm...any chance the 32nm overclock a little better with "stock" vcore on a setup like mine?  30x multi would be nice on 6C/12T...


----------



## BouziGolouM (Jul 19, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Just now noticing the W3680 is 32nm vs my W3570 45nm...any chance the 32nm overclock a little better with "stock" vcore on a setup like mine?  30x multi would be nice on 6C/12T...


I'll be able to tell you in about a week, mine should arrive later on this week


----------



## dorsetknob (Jul 19, 2018)

All the 32nm tend to run cooler than the 45nm   so should overclock better ( cannot confirm as i only have had 32nm westmere)


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jul 19, 2018)

I'll be happy if it at least does the 3.866GHz (29 multi) that my W3570 can...just hoping it might go a little farther...I can set 4GHz on my W3570, but it's not stable...though I can run a bench or two.  It may not make much of a practical difference to go from 3.866GHz to 4.0GHz. but the nice round number just makes me feel better lol


----------



## TechyTed (Jul 19, 2018)

Uncleweb posted this several pages back

 ...In a T3500, a typical W3680 is probably going to max out at somewhere around 4000 MHz to 4133 MHz due to the limited CPU voltage. On the EVGA board with the CPU voltage set sky high, a similar W3670 can run at 4700 MHz....

He said he leaves his T3500/W3680 combo at 30 or 31 multi.   Its not stable at 32.  I think thats on air cooling.


----------



## BouziGolouM (Jul 20, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> I'll be happy if it at least does the 3.866GHz (29 multi) that my W3570 can...just hoping it might go a little farther...I can set 4GHz on my W3570, but it's not stable...though I can run a bench or two.  It may not make much of a practical difference to go from 3.866GHz to 4.0GHz. but the nice round number just makes me feel better lol


Isn't x30 3.99907 GHZ? not round enough... I can't finish most of the benches but it's stable enough for gaming, though not running it @x30 stilll


----------



## Capri_Sun (Jul 22, 2018)

Hello guys, before i start thank you Retrorockit & unclewebb. Okay so I read through the whole thread and uncle said the westmere x56 cpus are unlocked but they have locked multipliers. So basically the only way to overclock is to bclk.I plan on building a dual cpu setup with x5675. it seems like nobody here has tried it on the forums but wouldnt it be possible to overclock the x56 series by using both throttlestop  and setfsb. Do you think it would be possible to get them to 4ghz?


----------



## Arjai (Jul 23, 2018)

So, according to Ark/Intel ECC Registered and Un Regestered (consumer) RAM are both acceptable. My question is this, or two questions are these:

Does the Dell T3500 MB accept ECC RAM?

Will using ECC Ram affect the OC-ability of the T3500, and say a w3690?

EDIT: Does anyone know, or seen anything, about the TS OC-ing ability of an X5670,  Westmere?
Edit2: If I get a T 3500 w/ a X5670, will I need to switch BIOS if I get a W3680/90?

I read through all 15pages of this thread. Leared I wanted a T 3500 but, Too much info is confusing me...I tried to re find stuff but, now I am tired.

Great thread @Retrorockit I hope to get one of these Crunching numbers for me, soon!! I have been wanting a Ryzen, for all the cores, but this is a 12 thread bargain! Plus if I can clock it as fast as a new Ryzen, or better, without breaking the electric bill, thus the want of the 32nm. It could be a WIN, WIN! Plus, I get to play w/ OC-ing, which I haven't done since my Socket A days!!


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 23, 2018)

Arjai said:


> Does the Dell T3500 MB accept ECC RAM?


Yes.


Arjai said:


> Will using ECC Ram affect the OC-ability of the T3500, and say a w3690?


No, you'll be fine.


Arjai said:


> EDIT: Does anyone know, or seen anything, about the TS OC-ing ability of an X5670, Westmere?


TS can force all cores to the maximum multiplier, but can't change the multi above that as it's a locked CPU.


Arjai said:


> Edit2: If I get a T 3500 w/ a X5670, will I need to switch BIOS if I get a W3680/90?


No, it's natively supported. You will want to update the bios to the latest version.


----------



## BouziGolouM (Jul 23, 2018)

Arjai said:


> Does the Dell T3500 MB accept ECC RAM?


If you want to add more ram, it's ecc unbuffered not registered (24gb), otherwise, max amount would be less.

Latest version is A17 but if you have a x5670, i think you should already have latest rev.



Capri_Sun said:


> Hello guys, before i start thank you Retrorockit & unclewebb. Okay so I read through the whole thread and uncle said the westmere x56 cpus are unlocked but they have locked multipliers. So basically the only way to overclock is to bclk.I plan on building a dual cpu setup with x5675. it seems like nobody here has tried it on the forums but wouldnt it be possible to overclock the x56 series by using both throttlestop  and setfsb. Do you think it would be possible to get them to 4ghz?


It is possible, seen it somewhere, don't remember where though.


----------



## Arjai (Jul 24, 2018)

One more question. Will TS work in  Linux Mint, or any Linux Distro's?


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 24, 2018)

Arjai said:


> Will TS work in Linux Mint, or any Linux Distro's?


ThrottleStop is a Windows only app.
For the 1st Gen Core i CPUs, it should be pretty easy to write a little script to overclock in Linux.  The MSRs are publicly documented by Intel.

For the turbo multipliers you would need to write to
MSR 0x1AD - EDX = 0x00000000 
MSR 0x1AD - EAX = 0x1E11E1E1E

That would get you the 30 multiplier whether 1, 2, 3 or 4 cores are active.

You might also need to adjust MSR 0x199.  That one is the multiplier request register.  For 1st Gen CPUs, you need to write the default multi + 1 to ask the CPU for full turbo boost.  If anyone needs to know more, just ask me.  You could also monitor those two registers in Windows with RW Everything while playing around with various ThrottleStop settings.  I think the TDP - TDC are both in MSR 0x1AC, also well documented by Intel.  It would be great to see Linux users having some multiplier overclocking fun too.


----------



## Arjai (Jul 25, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> ThrottleStop is a Windows only app.
> For the 1st Gen Core i CPUs, it should be pretty easy to write a little script to overclock in Linux.  The MSRs are publicly documented by Intel.
> 
> For the turbo multipliers you would need to write to
> ...



I will have to ask more about this another time, perhaps in a week, or so, once I can get a day off.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jul 25, 2018)

Capri_Sun said:


> Hello guys, before i start thank you Retrorockit & unclewebb. Okay so I read through the whole thread and uncle said the westmere x56 cpus are unlocked but they have locked multipliers. So basically the only way to overclock is to bclk.I plan on building a dual cpu setup with x5675. it seems like nobody here has tried it on the forums but wouldnt it be possible to overclock the x56 series by using both throttlestop  and setfsb. Do you think it would be possible to get them to 4ghz?


There are only a couple multiplier unlocked Westmeres W3680/W3690 and the dirt cheap W3570 W3580 Nehalem 4 cores. These can be overclocked with TS and mothing will change in the RAM timings. All workstations support ECC memory. It's the nature of the beast. With dual CPU workstations like the T5500 RDIMMs become a possibility in 2 CPU configurations. 2 CPU overclocking is pretty much unexplored territory so far. Ther are no multipler unlocked 2xCPUs since the Skulltrail days.


----------



## TechyTed (Jul 25, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> ThrottleStop is a Windows only app.
> For the 1st Gen Core i CPUs, it should be pretty easy to write a little script to overclock in Linux.  The MSRs are publicly documented by Intel.
> 
> For the turbo multipliers you would need to write to
> ...



If you all figure out how to overclock in Linux, please share.  I’ve done some searches and what I’ve found it is mainly talking about BIOS  settings.  There was an obscure reference to Grub boot parameters, but I think that is FSB tweaking.


----------



## unclewebb (Jul 26, 2018)

TechyTed said:


> If you all figure out how to overclock in Linux, please share.


I did share.  For the 1st Gen Core i CPUs, you only need to change a couple of Model Specific Registers (MSR) and I posted the two registers that need to be changed as well as the location of the third register that controls the turbo power limits.  All of these registers are listed in the Intel public documentation.  In Linux you can download some software that will allow you to change MSR values as long as you have Ring0 privileges.

The Linux community has been reverse engineering ThrottleStop for a while now.  This forum talks about the newer 4th Gen and up CPUs that use the FIVR to control voltages.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/undervolting-e-g-skylake-in-linux.807953/


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## TechyTed (Jul 26, 2018)

Thanks for the pointer!


----------



## Kwin (Jul 26, 2018)

Thanks guys for all the valuable information i have a T3500 /w3680/24ram that i use with  4 x 28 inch monitors use it for trading.
Realy like the quality  of these Dell T3500 
So this week i bought a dell T3500 for my son
Dell T3500 , w3503,2x2ram 1333mhz for 80,00 eur
Ordered  a w3680 for 88,90(tax incl)
4x2gb ram same brand and # as the one that came with the comp for 32,00 eur
Bought a 250 gb Samsung  ssd for 72,00 euro
And a asus geforce gtx1060 6gb oc version for 305,00 euro
Got everything in 2 days





Some spray paint,electrical tape
Took out the old dell hard drives and bracket
Stripped the comp and cleaned it /spray painted it 
Installed win10 with the old cpu an 4ram
Once done insalled the new cpu /ram
Once everything running okay i installed the asus geforce gtx1060 
Also on the cooler i installed a old optiplex 80mm fan
I soldered to my case/cpu fan but only 2 wires so running full throt doing 200cfm but very loud!!!!!
But very nice temp(40c at 4.133ghz with throttlestop) i will connect the 2 other wires so it will run idle with the case fans
Will also install some rgb strips will post when completed

And the settings/benchmark

Do you guys know what to do with sata3 my score for the ssd was very low and that was because of sata3 ...... the ssd is a samsung v-nand ss860 evo


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## TechyTed (Jul 26, 2018)

From what I’ve read, best way to get the SSD score up would be to add a PCIe to Sata 6gb adapter card.


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## Kwin (Jul 26, 2018)

Thanks will have a look


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jul 26, 2018)

Very cool T3500 build!  I considered going a similar route with the Z400 build I did for my girlfriend, but she really wanted a new case...I still have the Z400 case though, and I'm in the middle of modding the case+PSU for use in a retro build...still sourcing parts, but I definitely plan on making the stock case into something more pleasing to the eye, but also wanting it to be obviously a retro PC...going to involve some mods and painting though...been awhile since I've modded an OEM case, but I use to do about one a month when I was selling PC, so I've grown fond of modded OEM cases over the years and always appreciate the work others have done on their "OEM+" builds...in short, great job and thanks for sharing...I am sure your son loves it!


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## Retrorockit (Jul 26, 2018)

My thinking on SATA score is to use the RAID0 option and run 2x 120GB SSDs in striped mode for a 240GB 6GB/s drive array. The workstations support this but I haven't tested it yet.


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## TechyTed (Jul 27, 2018)

Striped RAID in another good option.

I saw a Youtube video where a guy had striped SSDs in a T7500 and was getting good Crystal benchmark numbers.


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## Caring1 (Jul 27, 2018)

TechyTed said:


> Stripped RAID in another good option.
> 
> I saw a Youtube video where a guy had stripped SSDs in a T7500 and was getting good Crystal benchmark numbers.


Is that anything like striped raid, or are they naked?


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## UCDHIUS (Aug 1, 2018)

I registered just to post in this thread and I know its probably a long shot.

Does anyone know if throttle stop can overclock 4,1 Mac Pro in Windows?

I have a mac pro 4,1 dual socket tower coming (for a build project just to screw around with)  and will be swapping out the CPUS for some X5680s. I know the CPUS are unlocked but the UEFI isn't at all. So is it possible to OC it with TS?

EDIT for some reason I thought they were unlocked.


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## dorsetknob (Aug 1, 2018)

Welcome to TPU 

As i understand it ( from posts from @unclewebb  the Author) its a windows only program


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## UCDHIUS (Aug 1, 2018)

dorsetknob said:


> As i understand it ( from posts from @unclewebb  the Author) its a windows only program



I’ll be running windows 10


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## dorsetknob (Aug 1, 2018)

Subject to Confirmation from @unclewebb and the Build version your going to use it will work


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## UCDHIUS (Aug 1, 2018)

dorsetknob said:


> Subject to Confirmation from @unclewebb and the Build version your going to use it will work



If it does work, it would be AMAZING
edit 

For some reason I thought the X5680 were unlocked :/ I’m I SOL?


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Aug 1, 2018)

Yeah, the only unlocked CPU are the W3570, W3580, W3680, and W3690...although you could still maybe use Throttlestop to maintain turbo boost clocks or something.  Currently there is no known way to overclock dual CPU, except perhaps getting lucky with SetFSB or the like...but that's kind of unknown territory as far as I can tell...not many boards can use that software, and even less likely a dual CPU board would work.  Of course it wouldn't hurt to try.  Also...I think if you run a single CPU, one of the W series Xeons might work for some overclocking, but once you go dual CPU, you lose that option.  Not sure if the W series are compatible with the Mac, though they likely are...I am sure someone else will chime in and confirm that though cause I am not positive.


----------



## TechyTed (Aug 1, 2018)

If you are running dual X5680s...do you really need to overclock much?

I am running a single X5675 in my T5500 motherboard and have not run into any CPU bound problem yet.

If that is really an issue, probably time to look at an E5-1600 or E5-2600 based system.  Some of those are unlocked and should overclock with Throttlestop.

Just my $0.02


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## Arjai (Aug 1, 2018)

I bought a T3500 w/ a x5670, specifically for Crunching w/ WCG. I picked a T3500 because of this thread! I know this is a locked multiplier but, with some help I am hoping to lock the boost clocks, in Linux.

This rig, /w locked boost, will effectively rival the 3 i3 HP UltraSlim's I have Crunching now. 
12 threads i3 VS. 12 threaded X5670.

The T3500 will arrive sometime next week, along with the MSI GAMING GeForce GT 710 2GB GDRR3 64-bit HDCP Support DirectX 12 OpenGL 4.5 Single Fan Low Profile Graphics Card (GT 710 2GD3 LP), I got for it on Amazon.

All together @ $241. Not bad, in my book, for a 6c/12t X5670 and a case, MB, PSU, HS and a GT 710 to run a monitor.

I am looking forward to getting this thing running!!


----------



## TechyTed (Aug 1, 2018)

As has been said many times here

If you have non-overclockable X58 / 1366 motherboard, and want max performance, then the best bet using Throttlestop is to go with a W3680 or W3690.   Thats been verified to work.  The W3570 and W3580 work too, but are fewer cores, run hotter, and probably wont hit the max overclock of the W36xx chips.

Everthing else is limited in some time way and you may get turbo boost speeds on all cores, but thats about it. 

Apologies to everyone else who had made this same comment...(like Aaron a couple posts ago) I am just repeating in case a new reader comes along at this point in the thread.


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## UCDHIUS (Aug 1, 2018)

I’ll see if it’s possible to maintain turbo clocks that should be good enough for me.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 1, 2018)

The X5687 is the fastest 2 CPU version. 4C/8T 3.6Ghz 3.86GHz turbo.


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## BouziGolouM (Aug 3, 2018)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Yeah, the only unlocked CPU are the W3570, W3580, W3680, and W3690...although you could still maybe use Throttlestop to maintain turbo boost clocks or something.  Currently there is no known way to overclock dual CPU, except perhaps getting lucky with SetFSB or the like...but that's kind of unknown territory as far as I can tell...not many boards can use that software, and even less likely a dual CPU board would work.  Of course it wouldn't hurt to try.  Also...I think if you run a single CPU, one of the W series Xeons might work for some overclocking, but once you go dual CPU, you lose that option.  Not sure if the W series are compatible with the Mac, though they likely are...I am sure someone else will chime in and confirm that though cause I am not positive.



You can overclock dual CPUs... Never tried myself, but as far as I know, the EVGA SR-2 is able to oc dual 1366 cpus.


TechyTed said:


> As has been said many times here
> 
> If you have non-overclockable X58 / 1366 motherboard, and want max performance, then the best bet using Throttlestop is to go with a W3680 or W3690.   Thats been verified to work.  The W3570 and W3580 work too, but are fewer cores, run hotter, and probably wont hit the max overclock of the W36xx chips.
> 
> ...


And well, not sure if i did something wrong, but I don't seem to see a really big difference in temps between my w3690 and my w3570. They oc to about the same multiplier and temps are about the same...


----------



## Retrorockit (Aug 3, 2018)

There are the OEM unlocked Extreme series also. i7-980X,i7-990X, i7-975X i7-965X (45nm 4C/8T). There are some 1156 Extremes also some of which slip in at 95W making them an option for Optiplexes.

The limits for TS overclocking may be different than for aftermarket high end motherboards. If the VRM power is limiting things then 4Cx45NM might run the same as 6Cx32nm.
For many purposes the difference between 4C/8T and 6C/12T won't be of any use. An extra $60 towards a better GPU might make more difference. The 45nm are fussier about RAM speed though.

EVGA Classified SR2 willl overclock 2x dual CPU Xeons. But it requires an oversized  case and possibly a special EVGA PSU to take full advantage of it. if anyone wants to try a 2 CPU overclock on an OEM system I'd love to see it.


----------



## UCDHIUS (Aug 3, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> if anyone wants to try a 2 CPU overclock on an OEM system I'd love to see it.



Once my cMP comes in I’ll slap in the x5680s I have and I’ll see if there is anything I can do to either lock in turbo boost and sync them across all cores or something.

If I can do that I’ll pick up some x5690s turbo boost clock on those are 3.73 GHz


----------



## TechyTed (Aug 3, 2018)

BouziGolouM said:


> And well, not sure if i did something wrong, but I don't seem to see a really big difference in temps between my w3690 and my w3570. They oc to about the same multiplier and temps are about the same...




That’s about right.  Remember the W36xx series would be running two mores cores, so if the temps are the same, its actually slightly better than W35xx, all other things being equal.  The difference is not likely to be very dramatic in normal usage scenarios unless you are doing multithreaded loads.

If you look at userbench results, the W3680 seems to be the winner in the T3500 when it comes to over all Ghz limit.  Even then, not all W3680s will peak at the same top frequency.

Retrorockets comment on power delivery is also another important factor.


----------



## Retrorockit (Aug 3, 2018)

X5687 has a turbo of 3.86 and is a 32nm 4C/8T 2x CPU chip.
https://ark.intel.com/products/5257...r-X5687-12M-Cache-3_60-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI
It seems to be flying under the radar so far for overclocking.
 It does make a pretty good showing at HWBOT.
https://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/xeon_x5687/


----------



## BouziGolouM (Aug 3, 2018)

TechyTed said:


> That’s about right.  Remember the W36xx series would be running two mores cores, so if the temps are the same, its actually slightly better than W35xx, all other things being equal.  The difference is not likely to be very dramatic in normal usage scenarios unless you are doing multithreaded loads.
> 
> If you look at userbench results, the W3680 seems to be the winner in the T3500 when it comes to over all Ghz limit.  Even then, not all W3680s will peak at the same top frequency.
> 
> Retrorockets comment on power delivery is also another important factor.


Ill see how truly it's a winner once I receive my aftermarket board I bought to match with my spare W chip


----------



## Arjai (Aug 5, 2018)

Arjai said:


> I bought a T3500 w/ a x5670, specifically for Crunching w/ WCG. I picked a T3500 because of this thread! I know this is a locked multiplier but, with some help I am hoping to lock the boost clocks, in Linux.
> 
> This rig, /w locked boost, will effectively rival the 3 i3 HP UltraSlim's I have Crunching now.
> 12 threads i3 VS. 12 threaded X5670.
> ...


Edit, Forgot to add, getting 8GB (2x4) with this deal.
https://www.stalliontek.com/refurbished-dell-precision-t3500-workstation-build-to-order?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 5, 2018)

Arjai said:


> Edit, Forgot to add, getting 8GB (2x4) with this deal.
> https://www.stalliontek.com/refurbished-dell-precision-t3500-workstation-build-to-order?


Get yourself a third 4GB stick to take advantage of the available triple channel ram.


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## Arjai (Aug 5, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> Get yourself a third 4GB stick to take advantage of the available triple channel ram.


Once I get the thing, I will see what brand it is and try to find a third one. The options were 2x4, 4x4 and 6x4. They wanted $149 for the 6x4 and $49 for the 2x4, so I got that to keep cost down. I am pretty sure I can complete the 3rd channel for less than a hundred bucks.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 5, 2018)

Arjai said:


> Once I get the thing, I will see what brand it is and try to find a third one. The options were 2x4, 4x4 and 6x4. They wanted $149 for the 6x4 and $49 for the 2x4, so I got that to keep cost down. I am pretty sure I can complete the 3rd channel for less than a hundred bucks.


You shouldn't have to spend more than $30 for another stick. Ebay or Amazon.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 5, 2018)

You really should get 3x4GB RAM. The whole point of LGA1366 is 3 channel DDR3 memory. It will run 2 channel but you will be leaving a lot on the table.

 Sorry didn't see the 2 previous replies that were on the next page.


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## Arjai (Aug 5, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> You shouldn't have to spend more than $30 for another stick. Ebay or Amazon.


That was the plan, hopefully I can find it on Amazon.


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 5, 2018)

Arjai said:


> That was the plan, hopefully I can find it on Amazon.


https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-ValueRAM-1333MHz-KVR1333D3E9S-4G/dp/B002K20P2Y
This is a good example. This presumes that you will be getting 1333mhz with that system, which is likely.


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## Arjai (Aug 5, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-ValueRAM-1333MHz-KVR1333D3E9S-4G/dp/B002K20P2Y
> This is a good example. This presumes that you will be getting 1333mhz with that system, which is likely.


I will just have to wait and see what I get. Should be here sometime in the coming week. The GPU will be here on Tuesday (I did the slow delivery option, since the computer was gonna be a while).

Hmmm, FedEx said it was delivered on Wednesday!! Damn office employees here are stupid!! I went down there and they said all I had was the one box, something I got from Amazon. Apparently, that goofy woman can't read!! Dammit! I could have already had that sucker up and running!?!?!

Oh well, guess I will raise a little hell on Monday!


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## TechyTed (Aug 6, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> You really should get 3x4GB RAM. The whole point of LGA1366 is 3 channel DDR3 memory. It will run 2 channel but you will be leaving a lot on the table.



That’s why I bought the 4x3  RDIMM kit for the T5500 MB.  I really only needed 4x2 for what I am doing, but DDR3 is so cheap, why not go triple channel and get the extra boost?

I think I am going to go ahead and order another 4x3 kit.  I will need it eventually if I get that CPU riser card.


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## UCDHIUS (Aug 6, 2018)

So out of curiosity, I purchased a single CPU tray for my mac pro.. I also bought a W3690 unlocked cpu.. So we will see if throttle stop can overclock it.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 7, 2018)

If it's running Windows it should work. If it's Mac OS you might need some Linux scripts.


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## UCDHIUS (Aug 7, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> If it's running Windows it should work. If it's Mac OS you might need some Linux scripts.



Ill be running windows 10.


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 8, 2018)

UCDHIUS said:


> Ill be running windows 10.


Win10 on a Mac running ThrottleStop. I wonder if that'll work?


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## Arjai (Aug 10, 2018)

Anyone know how hard it is to replace the fans in the fan cage, on a T3500? Can I just buy my own fans and insert them in the cage? They look to be 140's, is that correct?


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## Retrorockit (Aug 10, 2018)

The fans are 120x38mm. The truth is they are industrial grade fans like Dell uses in their servers. The ones I've seen in the T3500 are Foxconn .9A  and I think the CFM is printed on the label. Very few aftermarket fans can equal what you already have. They can be just pulled out of the cage by stretching the rubber "rivets". The 5 pin Dell connector is another issue. Most people just add an 80-90mm fan to the back of the CPU cooler. All the parts around the fan-HDD tray, memory shroud, and the sides of the case,  form a duct around the CPU coooler. Some people get Speedfan to work and turn the fans up that way. Typical aftermarket fans are .3A. or less and few of them can make 75CFM. I think the Foxconns are 115CFM. If you pull the blue wire out of the connector they will go to 100% PWM. Just Google Delta Fan Video and you will see a lot of Dell fans running there.


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## TechyTed (Aug 10, 2018)

Here are the front case fan specs from a Dell refurb seller web site

(inaccurate specs deleted)

I would trust Retro’s measurements because he has actually built a custon T3500.  The 12vdc and .9a specs are correct.  That’s what mine are anyway.

I have seen both Foxconn and Sunon brand front fans in these systems.  I think they are interchangeable?

The funky Dell 5-pin connector is another thing you will have to deal with, if not using stock fans for the two front fan headers.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 10, 2018)

I would suggest pulling your fan assy. out  It lifts straight up after you remove one screw in the back side of the case. Then you can measure what you already have.
I did a big fan/ cooler swap back on page 8 and 9.  But powering the 150x50mm 1.8A 256CFM fan is up to you. Precision 490 fan set. MC527 and JD850. But so far everyone has cooled the overclocks with just an extra CPU fan.
If you get into the slide show on page 8 the last photo should be first.


----------



## Arjai (Aug 11, 2018)

@lexluthermiester I noticed, a "few" pages back, you mentioned you added a fan to the CPU cooler on your T3500?

What fan header did you use for it, and if you molex-ed it, did you get a low rev fan or do you not mind it at 100%?

I am not going to mod the case on this one. I plan to just try to lock the cores at max Turbo, in Linux, when I have more time, on my multi locked x5670. I am interested in adding a fan to the cooler but, there doesn't seem to be any 4 pin headers on my board. I think, haven't actually looked (googled MB pics), that there may be a 5 pin for the HDD cooling. My board has the solid, finned cooler on the (?)South Branch, which eliminates the fan header for the heat-piped South Branch cooler (on some models?).

@Retrorockit and @TechyTed , thanks for the info. I had no idea it used a 5 pin fan header, nor that they were so "special". 
I think, if I were to figure out a decent CPU fan, that won't be just 100%, it could slow down the caged fans and quiet them a touch. Next week, when my 3rd stick of RAM arrives, I will take a closer look at the insides of this beast! So far, this thing, stock clocks, for only 2 days ( not fully spooled up) has catapulted me into the TOP20 on our daily Crunchers Pie List!! Not sure if the triple channel will help with Crunching but, getting it at a solid 6c/12t 3.33GHz will help!


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 11, 2018)

Arjai said:


> What fan header did you use for it, and if you *molex-ed it*, did you get a low rev fan or do you not mind it at 100%?


Yup, that's what I've done. The fan I installed is kinda quiet to begin with and once the case side is on it can barely be heard. 
Using this one;
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WUIPVE

I have one on the CPU heatsink and two blowing air out the back vents.


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## TechyTed (Aug 11, 2018)

Just as a data point, here are the specs of another brand front fan, which was removed from  a T3500.

Sunon, 120mm x 120mm x 35mm.

12v @ .62a (7.4w)

Min 127cfm

Dell p/n  YK500-A00






Retrorockit said:


> ...I did a big fan/ cooler swap back on page 8 and 9.  But powering the 150x50mm 1.8A 256CFM fan is up to you. Precision 490 fan set. MC527 and JD850. But so far everyone has cooled the overclocks with just an extra CPU fan.
> If you get into the slide show on page 8 the last photo should be first.



Retro, that big front fan you installed is double the stock CFM...and double the amps!

So remind how you powered it.  I am assuming you didn’t use the MB header.

You still have one of the coolest T3500 mods I’ve seen, with all the air cooling gadgets installed.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 11, 2018)

There is an extra fan header for an HDD fan with the Dell 5 pin header. The first 3 pins are the same order as a 3 pin header. It's by the SATA sockets.
There were some old fans back in the day that had a thermal sensor (thermistor) on the fan instead of VRM. They can only be used on the outlet side.
Nidec TA350DC is one of them. I've seen them with various power ratings up to 1.8A. They're 92mmx38mm and were used to cool Pentium 4 and PentiumD CPUs.
if you bridge across the legs of the thermistor they go to 100%. It could probably be "tuned' with a potentiometer or parallel resistor if you need more speed.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...Z4oAQNQFcoBSR8HVjlBoCmu0QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
 Be sure you get the 3 wire and can see the thermistor as shown. I've seen a 4 wire 2.3A version also.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...TCH&Description=Nidec+TA350DC&N=-1&isNodeId=1


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## Arjai (Aug 12, 2018)

I bought a BeQuiet 80 mm, for the CPU fan.




Comes w/ a Molex connector that I think connects to that black one with connectors to the fan at different voltages. $27.99. If I am correct, it will be awesomely cool! LOL, I am thinking 7v wiil be enought to slow down the cage fans, and make it quieter and cooler w/out RGB!! 

I might have to zip tie it, to the cooler. I plan to use it as a push, same direction as the 2 cage fans.  think I will need an additional exhaust fan. We'll see. I prefer a positive box flow. Right now, the PSU is the only "out" fan.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Aug 12, 2018)

Arjai said:


> $27.99


Bit pricey for one fan..


----------



## Arjai (Aug 12, 2018)

A bit, but I am a fan, of bequiet fans. I also am intrigued by Cougar fans, don't have any yet but plan to try them, at some point. The i3's, 2 of which I took from the dumpster, at work, will need fans soon. I will probably get some Cougars for them.

That's my 2 cents, on it.


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## UCDHIUS (Aug 18, 2018)

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/9466717

2009 Apple cMP (W3690) holds 4.1 GHz across all cores.


----------



## Retrorockit (Aug 18, 2018)

Nice to have a Mac Pro here.
 I had a funny experience with Geekbench. My Dell Dimension E520 QX6800 3.72Ghz was only recognized as a 2.93 GHz CPU on their chart. They had to extend the chart upwards to contain the score but it was on the chart at it's base speed. That was a couple years ago so it fell off the bottom of the chart last time I looked.


----------



## BouziGolouM (Aug 28, 2018)

About the dell 5 pins fans, there's a cheap adapter on ebay for like 3 bucks, works really well, had to use it when i switched case. Just type dell 5pin fan adapter.


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 28, 2018)

BouziGolouM said:


> About the dell 5 pins fans, there's a cheap adapter on ebay for like 3 bucks, works really well, had to use it when i switched case. Just type dell 5pin fan adapter.


Got a link or a name? Kinda interested.


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## Arjai (Aug 28, 2018)

Found it.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=dell+5pin+fan+adapter.&_sacat=0


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## Retrorockit (Aug 28, 2018)

I didn't answer this.


TechyTed said:


> Retro, that big front fan you installed is double the stock CFM...and double the amps!



The T3500/T5500 MB has 2 -5 pin fan headers next to each other. Each one runs a .8A fan in the stock T3500 scheme. They have separate PWM controllers. One for the CPU, and one for the cage fan.
I would use the 12V. and GRD from both for the big fan. 2nd RPM wire to the cage fan. 2nd PWM wireto the new cage fan, and power the new "smaller" cage fan from the HDD fan header.
 Many of the old Optiplexes, and Dimensions came with 1.6A. fans on a single header. I've used this fan before in those sytems. It moves a bunch of air at idle, and rarely speeds up very much. It was designed to replace the 120x38mm fans that were real screamers at full speed in the 2xCPU workstations. I've heard that the Delta fan rating seem high because they use peak amps, where others use continuos. Foxconn and Sunon always seem lower, Delta and MBT always seem higher for fans doing the same work. But the AFC1512DG was used to cool 2x 130-150W CPUs by itself, and since it was a workstation fan and not a server part noise was a consideration. 
Another fun fan is the GFB1212VHG 120X50mm 2 motor fan. 3.4A total. 2x 1.7A motors with contra rotating blades and a bladed stator in the middle to reverse the flow. This will usually fit in the fan housing of a 120x38mm fan. I've had situations where the MB fan header load would kill an overclock. So I installed this and ran it off of a 4 pin Molex with PWM split to both motors, and RPM to just one. But the bare 150x50mm replaces the 120x38/50mm fan and housing in the Optis etc. so it's my go to fan now. The fact that it drops into the T3500 is a bonus.


----------



## Susquehannock (Aug 28, 2018)

_



			"Another fun fan is the GFB1212VHG 120X50mm 2 motor fan. "
		
Click to expand...

_
Those look very interesting. Especially if the specs are correct. 17 dB at 184 cfm. 

Found some at $15.68

I would definitely connect these direct to PSU harness instead of the board headers.

[edit]
ordered one of those fans to play with.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 29, 2018)

184CFM sounds right but they're not particularly quiet. They are much lower pitched than single motor fans. Kind of like a pickup with offroad tires. The AFC1512DG is quieter, moves more air, and uses less current. They can be found for about the same price. I much prefer them if there's room to install one.
 But that's the fan. 9 Blades in, 7 blade stator, and 5 blades out. They also come in 4 wire non PWM versions (2-12V. amd 2-GRD).
 But I'll still stuff one up inside of a Dell TJ258 BTX neatpipe cooler.
https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Dell-Heatsink-Assembly-Compatible/dp/B0071OEPOA


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## Susquehannock (Aug 29, 2018)

Been playing around with this W3680 at 4.0ghz in my Dell T3500. Looks good. System gets buggy at 4.2ghz and will fail during IETU more often than not. Pretty sure it would be stable with more voltage.

Very happy with the temps so far. Max of 60c at full load with 25c room temp. Grizzly Kryonaut is expensive but seems to do the trick. Stock cooler with 80mm fan in pull config, both case fans set to 100% with SpeedFan.

Now the bad news .....  W3680 in the T5500 board is a no go. Get the same 'pb7' BIOS non-execution error with both UDIMM and RDIMM modules. Being thie W3680 is single QPI link, it would seem the BIOS requires a dual QPI chip regardless if we run only one CPU.

So unless someone knows of an unlocked dual QPI Xeon we are out of luck overclocking the T5500.


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 29, 2018)

Arjai said:


> Found it.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=dell+5pin+fan+adapter.&_sacat=0


Suddenly feeling dumb. Thanks @Arjai


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## unclewebb (Aug 29, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> W3680 in the T5500 board is a no go


Thanks for letting us know. 

During the XTU benchmark, are you sure your CPU is running at full speed?  If the turbo power limits are only set to 110 Watts, I am pretty sure you will be seeing some significant throttling.   The reported core frequency in the XTU graph should be a straight line.  My W3680 needs a TDP setting of 180 W to maintain full speed during a TS Bench test so for XTU it probably needs at least that and maybe another 10 W or 20 W to avoid any throttling.  I know Prime95 definitely needs more.  TDC at 130 Amps should be adequate.

I installed Windows 10 - 1803 on my T3500 on the weekend.  Very smooth install.  I used the serial number from the Windows 7 Pro certificate that was stuck on the top of the case and Windows 10 Pro activated just fine.  No need to hunt around for obscure drivers or anything like that.  Might have to go install XTU so you have a bench number to compare to.


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## TechyTed (Aug 29, 2018)

If you have a T5500 you will just have to install two X5690s and suffer with it.

Might bump it up to 48gb of RDIMMs too.

That way the slooooow  CPUs won’t seem so bad.


*wink*


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## unclewebb (Aug 30, 2018)

@Susquehannock - The default TDP for a W3680 is 130 Watts.  

https://ark.intel.com/products/4791...12M-Cache-3_33-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI?q=w3680

Your XTU screenshot shows Turbo Boost Current Max = 130 Amps and Turbo Boost Power = 110 Watts.  Your numbers as reported by XTU seemed to be reversed.  I installed XTU on my T3500 and it also seemed to be reversed.  Time to do some digging.

Here is what the Intel docs show.  






MSR 0x1AC contains both of the power limits.  According to Intel, the lower bits contain TDP and the upper bits in that register contain TDC.  I installed RWEverything so I could have a look.






The lower bits in my example contains 0x5F0 which equals 1520.  Divide 1520 by 8 and you get 190.  
The higher bits contains 0x370 which equals 880.  Divide 880 by 8 and you get 110.

In other words, my CPU is set to 190 Watts and 110 Amps.  It is nice that the latest version of XTU supports these old X58 CPUs but it would be even nicer if the programmers read their own documentation.  

Anyway, if you look at my screenshot, by disabling all of the C States, I was able to lock my CPU at a steady 4.00 GHz at idle or full XTU Bench load.  I thought for sure I was going to kick some butt but the numbers do not lie.






I am down 20 points compared to your score.  Windows 10 does not seem overly bloated.  Maybe it was sending a few GB of data up to the Microsoft cloud while I was busy benching.  Now I have to go install my old Windows 7 drive to try and find where the lost performance has gone.  Cinebench score is also down 30+ points since "upgrading" to Windows 10.  Kind of like bolting on some performance parts to your car and you end up going slower.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 30, 2018)

I saw someone selling T5500 with W3680 CPUs, I thought that confirmed them with UDIMMs. A pair of X5687 would be the fastest CPUs then.
 I could understand Dell only listing the 2 CPU Xeons to avoid headaches when customers decide to add another CPU. The X58 T3500 can run just about anything.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Preci...cessor-upgrade-/323412553348?oid=323317633986
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Preci...m=323412553717&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
 I wonder if this seller can confirm these working?


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## Caring1 (Sep 3, 2018)

As far as I know they should work, but I can't confirm that now, I only know (from memory) they are selective which socket they are placed in when running one CPU.


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## kzmn (Sep 26, 2018)

Unfortunately, XTU and Throttlestop failed to make my i7 0000 Coffee Lake work past 3100MHz when all 6 cores are loaded. 
BIOS change to 6 cores 36 multiplier and increasing turbo limit did not help. XTU shows multipliers all set to 36 and locked but still CPU goes 
no higher than 3100. Set multiplier does not work in Throttlestop. And when I first started TS, it had 63 in Set multiplier cell.
So Intel engineer samples are quite different from the final product, despite stepping is the samein this case.


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## unclewebb (Sep 26, 2018)

kzmn said:


> Set multiplier does not work in Throttlestop.


When Speed Shift is enabled (SST), the Set Multiplier feature no longer works.



kzmn said:


> And when I first started TS, it had 63 in Set multiplier cell.


That is normal.  When the Set Multiplier register is not being used, the bios will often times set this register to 63. 

Can you post a screenshot of the FIVR window?  Does it show that Overclocking is available?

When idle, are the C states being used?  The locked processors require either core C3 or core C6 to be enabled so they can reach the highest single core multiplier.  Post a picture of ThrottleStop while running a single thread of the built in TS Bench test.


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## kzmn (Sep 27, 2018)

C3 used when idle.


Set multiplier=8. Overclocking is not available.


Multiplier set to 36 (max) on 6 core load (as wel as in bios). I hoped I would be able to use 6 cores@3600.


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## Retrorockit (Sep 27, 2018)

Susquehannock said:


> Now the bad news ..... W3680 in the T5500 board is a no go. Get the same 'pb7' BIOS non-execution error with both UDIMM and RDIMM modules. Being thie W3680 is single QPI link, it would seem the BIOS requires a dual QPI chip regardless if we run only one CPU.



 Regarding the T5500 W3680 situation.  I know you've been doing this a while so maybe you already tried this, but you didn't mention it. Did you reset the BIOS to default? This could allow it to unlearn some RAM, and CPU settings it might otherwise be expecting. I looked into the PB7 error and it seems to mean the BIOS is unhappy, but it's very non specific about why. People seem to get it with one dual QPI CPU, dual CPUs when either works alone, and other CPU related issues. Obviously I'm hoping it's an isolated occurence. But I haven't found any actual eveidence that it is.
 Maybe a BIOS mod to set QPI value from 2 to1?


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## unclewebb (Sep 27, 2018)

@kzmn - When ThrottleStop reports,

*Turbo Overclocking  +0*

that means your ES CPU is fully locked.  The 36 multiplier might be available when a single core is active but it definitely will not be available when all 6 cores are active.  Most people used to think that ES automatically meant unlocked multiplier but that is rarely true.  This is only true if it is an ES K series CPU but your CPU is no K series. (+0) 



kzmn said:


> Set multiplier=8. Overclocking is not available.



I already said that when Speed Shift is enabled, (SST) in green, the Set Multiplier feature will not do anything.  Open up the TPL window and see what the Speed Shift Max value is set to.  It should be set to at least 36.

Your default turbo multipliers are probably,

1 Core Active - 36
2 Cores Active - 35
3 Cores Active - 34
4 Cores Active - 33
5 Cores Active - 32
6 Cores Active - 31

With a locked CPU, there is no way to go beyond those preset limits.


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## Susquehannock (Sep 28, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Regarding the T5500 W3680 situation.  I know you've been doing this a while so maybe you already tried this, but you didn't mention it. Did you reset the BIOS to default? This could allow it to unlearn some RAM, and CPU settings it might otherwise be expecting. I looked into the PB7 error and it seems to mean the BIOS is unhappy, but it's very non specific about why. People seem to get it with one dual QPI CPU, dual CPUs when either works alone, and other CPU related issues. Obviously I'm hoping it's an isolated occurence. But I haven't found any actual eveidence that it is.
> Maybe a BIOS mod to set QPI value from 2 to1?


Good thinking. Sure did. Made every effort to clear things. Both BIOS and CMOS.

Has anyone been able to confirm the W3680 working in these? Thinking those Ebay ads were generalized toward Tx500 systems.

Spent some time looking around. All the available processors listed with T5500 from Dell are dual QPI. Expanding further, dove into the Intel 5520 chipset compatibility list. Every CPU there is a dual QPI as well.

BIOS mod would be great but far beyond my skill level. Asking myself if it would be worth it. Lack of voltage adjustments caps us at 4.0ghz or so. Less than 300mhz above X5690 at turbo.


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## Retrorockit (Sep 28, 2018)

I looked for the seller of the T5500 with unlocked Xeons and UDIMMs and they no longer sell T5500 at all. Just T3500 single CPU with UDIMMs.

There's a Voltage hardmod that GPU guys use to spoof the V.Sense pin on the VRM controller. It uses a pulldown Potentiometer to make the VRM think it needs more Volts. You have to add a digital Voltage readout because the VRM becomes clueless. It's beeen done on MB too. I think that's why there are so many overclocks at CPUZ that show stock voltage. How a CPU based northbridge responds to that IDK. It proably depends on whether it reads from the MB or does it's own measurement.


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## totalfreq (Oct 13, 2018)

I had to join and thank you all for such a great discussion.

Any of you try throttlestop with the t7500??? I have a few t7500s laying around and pairs of almost every x5600 chip (other than the x5698). 

Ill be trying TS immediately on these boxes to see if it works on the t7500 and if any of the chips are unlocked or will mutliply at all in single or dual cpu config.

Ill post any results. Thank you all for inspiring hope!


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## unclewebb (Oct 13, 2018)

The X series Xeon CPUs have a locked multiplier so ThrottleStop will not work with them.  Would be nice if it did but no dice as far as I know.


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## totalfreq (Oct 13, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> The X series Xeon CPUs have a locked multiplier so ThrottleStop will not work with them.  Would be nice if it did but no dice as far as I know.



In reading i though someone said the got a x5670 to 4ghz (maybe a different method?). Anyway no harm in trying, ive got a bunch of x5600s and plenty of time on my hands.

But anyone try yet with t7500s...or the Nhlm E5500 series processors?

If Im stuck with the X5687 and x5690s stock it wont be a total loss. I ran a firestrike1.1 test with a pair of stock x5670s and an rx580 and my score fell with 1% of a current i7/i9 with the same gpu, so no real bottleneck there.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 13, 2018)

Unfortunately we're finding that the dual CPU machines require dual CPU Xeons even when running single CPU. This kicks out all the unlocked Xeons. There are some reports of getting turbo speed on all cores with TS, or XTU.  But we love 2 CPU OC attempts here. And we also value failed attempts because they still produce useful info. So please keep us posted.

 On another note I've acquired a Dell/Alienware Aurora R1 MB. X58 LGA1366 supposedly unlocked to some extent. Maybe I can get a Voltage bump alongside a TS overclock. It's mATX so unexplored territory for me! Heatpipe cooling on the chipset. It also lists XMP 1600 RAM support.
MS7591 ver.1 aka Dell# 4VWF2
https://www.google.com/search?q=MS+...9YPeAhVHmK0KHRvlAWUQ_AUIDigB&biw=1600&bih=827
I found an X5670 scoring with the unlocked W3680/90s It shows 4.4GHz clock speed. So I may have struck gold here.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/7088426
Her are the others.
http://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Alienware-Aurora/3079


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## totalfreq (Oct 13, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Unfortunately we're finding that the dual CPU machines require dual CPU Xeons even when running single CPU. This kicks out all the unlocked Xeons. There are some reports of getting turbo speed on all cores with TS, or XTU.  But we love 2 CPU OC attempts here. And we also value failed attempts because they still produce useful info. So please keep us posted.



Ill keep you posted for sure. And will be trying all my dual pairs...but here is the kicker...in reasearching the compatible CPU list on the T7500, BIOS A04 lists the W3680 as compatible... maybe just an error, but Im tempted to buy one and find out if I cannot find a suitable one in my current lot.

Dell A04 bios sheet


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## Retrorockit (Oct 13, 2018)

That would be very interesting. Especially if it translated to the T5500. Some of us like that MB for T3500 swapping. W3680 is about as good as it gets. I'm not sure there's any real advantage to the W3690.
FWIW I went to Userbenchmark and looked at all 1300+ examples of T7500  and the only W series I saw were some W5580,W5590. So no examples in the wild. Yet.

I came across this Spectre, and Meltdown patches for the T5500,T7500. Nothing for the X58 systems.
https://www.dell.com/support/articl...cve-2017-5754-impact-on-dell-products?lang=en
These attacks down't actually exist in the wild. Yet.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 17, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> In reading i though someone said the got a x5670 to 4ghz (maybe a different method?). Anyway no harm in trying, ive got a bunch of x5600s and plenty of time on my hands.
> 
> But anyone try yet with t7500s...or the Nhlm E5500 series processors?
> 
> If Im stuck with the X5687 and x5690s stock it wont be a total loss. I ran a firestrike1.1 test with a pair of stock x5670s and an rx580 and my score fell with 1% of a current i7/i9 with the same gpu, so no real bottleneck there.


 There is one way to get a dual CPU overclock. No one here has spent the money to do it yet. But the EVGA Classified SR2 is an unlocked dual CPU LGA1366 motherboard.
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...0202020202020583536383020204020332e333347487a


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## totalfreq (Oct 18, 2018)

Hah Ive been looking at them (SR2 Classified)!

But Ive also been playing around some with what I have, to get some results.

So I started with my current desktop -
T7500, 2x x5680s - air cooled, 48gb ram, 256gb intel enterprise ssd, EVGA 1070ti SC Hybrid 8gb

I ran some simple video benches:

time spy 1.0
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/29490101

firestrike 1.1
https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/29490687

if you compare to a non -OC
i7-6700k
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/4641982

Its pretty similar (though they are using an slightly different 1070 TI EVGA GPU if you look at the clocks).

I tired throttelstop, cores were locked but I could go to 26T multiplier but didnt see a change.
I tried the Intel Extreme Utility - all locked
I tried set FSB and it only increased processor 2 ??? I scored a top 3.58ghz with these settings if you look at the extreme utility bench but if you look at cpuz the processor speeds are different.






So I'm getting somewhere..maybe, while also getting nowhere? Confirmation - throttlestop wont help dual x5680s on T7500 board...but setfsb  nets a little gain...but for what price...

I backed everything down and will be playing with a T5500 for the rest of the testing as its easier to move around (half the case size/weight). Or I may use an open board (no case) setup T7500 I was using for mining...we shall see.

The only thing I find annoying about the T5500 that if you run a full size GPU and its powered from the TOP, you lose a drive bay. If its powered from the rear then its no issue. You also have to strip out the blue pci card separator, but no loss there.

I will start trying all the other combos shortly.

But something interesting to note on the T7500 - I was able to pull the rear case fan out and seat my GPU cooler fan in the area just next to the riser. It was a tight fit but all is running well.  (Pictures will come)

Also, I ordered a dell 5 pin fan splitter. I plan to use a fan cooled riser heatsink on CPU 0 on the motherboard and then connect both fans to the riser port so as CPU temps increase both will be direct fan cooled. I was going to plug it into the rear case fan slot but then it wont turn on the fan according to cpu heat as easily. I may just try and jumper out the  rear case fan or install the fan elsewhere like in the 5.25 bay where I currently have an evercool for my 6tb raid array to get rid of the annoying boot error. (Pics to come)


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## Durvelle27 (Oct 18, 2018)

Thinking of giving this a try with a Xeon 771 cpu and 775 board


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## Retrorockit (Oct 18, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> I tired throttelstop, cores were locked but I could go to 26T multiplier but didnt see a change.
> I tried the Intel Extreme Utility - all locked
> I tried set FSB and it only increased processor 2 ??? I scored a top 3.58ghz with these settings if you look at the extreme utility bench but if you look at cpuz the processor speeds are different.


SetFSB has a hexadecimal editor in it. There is a way to reset the FSB lock bit. I have 0 knowledge of Hexadecimal, and haven't found a text to learn it anywhere. But the value 9 locks it and 6 unlocks the PLL chip. Which register get's changed I haven't got a clue. There is probably a way to associate it with the different CPUs also. It would probably need a 2nd instance of it running.
Another utility is RW Everything. I have no idea how to use it. But it looks like it can edit just about anything including 2ndary RAM timings.
I came across this stuff here.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ing-methods-and-examples.393027/#post-4998927
Maybe you could try overclocking a single CPU then add the 2nd and see if it somehow matches?


Durvelle27 said:


> Thinking of giving this a try with a Xeon 771 cpu and 775 board


There is only one unlocked LGA771 CPU the QX9775. it is also the only unlocked dual CPU processor. Unlocked CPUs are rquired for TS overclocking. If you have a MB with an X38, or X48 chipset then there's a pinmod to 400fsb that should get 4GHz on an X5470.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 20, 2018)

There's T7500 thread at OCN you might want to look at.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...rclocking-dual-xeon-dell-precision-t7500.html


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## totalfreq (Oct 22, 2018)

So I came across the dell client configurator today looking for a way to change the asses tag (like Asset_A209.com did for older 32bit systems)

Software:
https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/drivers/driversdetails?c=us&l=en&s=biz&driverid=R304287

Manual:
http://wikifoundryattachments.com/AVs0Or3N0zyuxf+oBrGNbg==764439

It basically allows you to command line edit (or gui - limited) the Dell Bios.

For instance you can change the asset tag using :

EXAMPLE
"cctk --asset=ASSETTAG"


*It also allows to to enable the amount of cores to use per CPU and Bus Ratio in CPU!*

I'm wondering if they just left the info out the manual for "set core voltage" or "set core multiplier" but its somewhere in there if you can find the right syntax. I found you can read the current cpu speed using "cctk --cpuspeed"

Anyone ever mess with this program???


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## Retrorockit (Oct 23, 2018)

There is only one unlocked LGA771 CPU the QX9775. it is also the only unlocked dual CPU processor. Unlocked CPUs are rquired for TS overclocking. If you have a MB with an X38, or X48 chipset then there's a pinmod to 400fsb that should get 4GHz on an X5470.[/QUOTE]

I guess I should expand on this a little bit more related specifically to the T7400.
The T7400 supports the 400FSB LGA771 Xeons. The T5400 doesn't. The pinout of the LGA771, and LGA775 CPUs is the same for BSEL, and VID pruposes. The maps look different because the notches for the socket are in different places. But you'll notice that the pins are marked reserved where the notches go in the other CPUs. So even if the T7400 doesn't have an X38, or x48 chipset it does support 2 CPU and 400fsb so the pinmod should work if you adjust it for the LGA771 pinout. The VID pinmod which is more complex should work also. I was buying parts to try this but someone is buying up all the workstations locally so I never got my hands on one.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Oct 23, 2018)

Here's a $5 build I did quite some time ago that relied on Throttle stop...the PC was not officially supposed to support 45nm cpu, fixed that with a microcode update...still only dual cores allowed, but got an e5800, BSEL modded to 1066FSB, booted into Windows at 4.2Ghz and used Throttlestop to drop the multi to 15 from 16...which resulted in stable 3.99GHz e5800 paired with 8600 GT volt mod 900 core...got everything for under $5.  Just thought I'd share here since this seems to be a little different than the typical things Throttlestop is used for.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 23, 2018)

My Opti 380 came with an E5800. I tried the tapemod and no go. I had a pile of CPUs so I just moved on to the next. QX9650 didn't work either. Q9505S was the next choice. Mine didn't boot at 4.2GHz so I didn't get to try that. What is a fast 2 core system like that good for. I've suggested the classic E7500 pinmod to 3.66GHz many times but haven't gotten any feedback on it.


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## storm-chaser (Oct 23, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I've suggested the classic E7500 pinmod to 3.66GHz many times but haven't gotten any feedback on it.


I have a couple extra e7500 CPUs what is this pin mod all about? Interested in trying it out.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 23, 2018)

storm-chaser said:


> I have a couple extra e7500 CPUs what is this pin mod all about? Interested in trying it out.


It's the same as the classic Q6600 BSEL mod. A piece of tape changes the FSB from 266-333 (or 1066-1333 @ CPU). A Q6600 SLACR would go to 3GHz on the stock Voltage.
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2125877/tape-mod-bsel-mod-intel-q6600.html  The 2nd photo is the mod.
The E7500  is 1066 FSB also and can usually sustain 3.66Ghz. If you can raise voltage then the E7600 can go higher.


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## storm-chaser (Oct 24, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> It's the same as the classic Q6600 BSEL mod. A piece of tape changes the FSB from 266-333 (or 1066-1333 @ CPU). A Q6600 SLACR would go to 3GHz on the stock Voltage.
> http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2125877/tape-mod-bsel-mod-intel-q6600.html  The 2nd photo is the mod.
> The E7500  is 1066 FSB also and can usually sustain 3.66Ghz. If you can raise voltage then the E7600 can go higher.


Thanks. I just tried this mod on my Dell OptiPlex 350 workstation with excellent results. I used an e7500 and netted 3.657Ghz at stock voltage and all appears to be well. Next step is to try this on a Q6700 and see if I can get 3.333Ghz in my HTPC.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 24, 2018)

Q6700 are nice chips. All of them are G0 stepping and overlooked by overclockers who obsessed over the cheaper Q6600 G0 back in the day. If a computer supports 1333fsb but not 45nm CPUs then it's a good way to go short of a QX6800 SLACP. The QX6700 are all B3 stepping and pretty lame.


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## storm-chaser (Oct 25, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Q6700 are nice chips. All of them are G0 stepping and overlooked by overclockers who obsessed over the cheaper Q6600 G0 back in the day. If a computer supports 1333fsb but not 45nm CPUs then it's a good way to go short of a QX6800 SLACP. The QX6700 are all B3 stepping and pretty lame.


Good to hear. A have this HTPC that's been work in progress. Initially, I had the bios modded to except the QX6850 but she ran a little hot and for some reason I could not use ThrottleStop to overclock from within Windows. After that, I replaced the CPU with a Q9450S and temps came down substantially. I think the Q6700 is next up on my short list of processor acquisitions! I will probably start a new thread or blog when the time comes to install the chip. Only a few select Core 2 chips ever came with a 10x multi that's one reason I just love it.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 25, 2018)

I've run the QX6800 G0 with TS to 4GHz in a Dell Dimension E520.
http://valid.x86.fr/bg4n0r 
The base multi on the QX6800 is 11. The X6800 2 core is also but it's  B3 stepping only.


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## totalfreq (Oct 25, 2018)

So here is my failed testing:
(as unclewebb already advised they wouldnt work - I wanted to try anyway...whats a few grams of silverpaste eh?)
I turned off hyperthreading so that I could control all 8-12 cores on the 2 processors.

T5500 A17 - CPU Pairs:
X5687 - Locked Only allowed +1 multiple

T7500 A17 - CPU Pairs:
X5670 - Locked Only allowed +1 multiple
X5680 - Locked Only allowed +1 multiple
X5690 - Locked Only allowed +1 multiple
X5690 ES - Locked Only allowed +1 multiple (but ES showed up/runs in dell bios with no issues)

T5500 A17 - Single processor:
X5650 - Locked - Only allowed +1 multiple
X5675 - Locked - Only allowed +1 multiple

Still to test :
W5590 ES - Pair
W5690 ES - Pair
And I plan to buy some W5680 as it was listed in the T7500 A04 bios as supported

I honestly didnt think the ES and W chips would work ina Dell T5500/T7500, so thats why I left them to the end, but with the X5690 ES at least showing up in BIOS it is promising.

I lave a lot of the e55xx and about 8 pair of x5687 but probably wont test them unless someone has a direct request.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 25, 2018)

Thanks for making it official. A few people tried a few of those and failed. It's looking like the dual CPU machines only support dual CPUs, and none of those in LGA1366 are unlocked.
It's too bad because the T5500 has a lot going for it as a TS OC platform


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## unclewebb (Oct 25, 2018)

If you want to access the highest multiplier on a locked CPU, you need to have at least the C3 C state enabled in the bios.  CPU World is a good source of info which shows the maximum speed when the C States are enabled.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon X5670 - AT80614005130AA (BX80614X5670).html

Appreciate your testing.  My nephew is a proud new T3500 owner so maybe this winter if I get bored and the price is right, I will try a T5500 or T7500.  Fun toys to play with.


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## totalfreq (Oct 25, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Thanks for making it official. A few people tried a few of those and failed. It's looking like the dual CPU machines only support dual CPUs, and none of those in LGA1366 are unlocked.
> It's too bad because the T5500 has a lot going for it as a TS OC platform



Well I still have the W chips to try..we will see if they work in 1 or 2 cpu configurations.



unclewebb said:


> If you want to access the highest multiplier on a locked CPU, you need to have at least the C3 C state enabled in the bios.  CPU World is a good source of info which shows the maximum speed when the C States are enabled.
> 
> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon X5670 - AT80614005130AA (BX80614X5670).html
> 
> Appreciate your testing.  My nephew is a proud new T3500 owner so maybe this winter if I get bored and the price is right, I will try a T5500 or T7500.  Fun toys to play with.



Very good to know I will explore the c states more. I saw the CCTK/DCC dell bios tool does have some options in there. I dont know if it will get me where I want but I'll see whats possible.

Also I love the T7500. It is so big it makes the T5500 look like a toy. 





The case has 4x 3.5" internal drive bays + 4x 5.25" bays. I ran two 1070ti graphics cards on 16x channels with sli bridge all off the stock power supply. I now run a single watercooled 1070ti to keep it quiet and was able to fit the watercooled fan where the rear case fan was.





If you interested in multiple harddrives, raid, multiple GPUs, 192gb ram, etc the T7500 allows for a lot more than the T5500. And if only we can find a way to OC them....They have plenty of room for watercooler gear inside the case!


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## Retrorockit (Oct 25, 2018)

The T7500 has a taller CPU cooler than the T5500.


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## totalfreq (Oct 25, 2018)

Are you joking since the box is bigger?

Do you mean the heatsinks?

 All mine are the same size so I'd be interested to know which one's I'm running incorrectly.

Unless you mean the front fan assembly is larger. Because Im pretty sure it is.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 26, 2018)

With the HDD cages moved to the PSU end of the case there is room for a taller heatsink. I think this is it.
https://www.serverworlds.com/dell-u402f-precision-t7500-primary-heatsink/
Some places sell this for T3500 T5500 also but Susquehannock says it's too tall. U016F is the smaller one that came with my T3500.
If you scroll down that page you will see several heatsink options. What they put in them depends on what CPU they were ordered with.
There's probably plenty of room for the Shuriken Ninja 4. But I had to use a Thermalright hardware kit to mount it to the Dell MB.


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## totalfreq (Oct 26, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> With the HDD cages moved to the PSU end of the case there is room for a taller heatsink. I think this is it.
> https://www.serverworlds.com/dell-u402f-precision-t7500-primary-heatsink/
> Some places sell this for T3500 T5500 also but Susquehannock says it's too tall. U016F is the smaller one that came with my T3500.
> If you scroll down that page you will see several heatsink options. What they put in them depends on what CPU they were ordered with.




I never saw those before - my T7500's came with the aluminum ones so I upgraded to the U016F (on all of my machines). I pushed the 95W and 130w CPUs pretty hard for several months the beginning of this year mining Electroneum on all 24 threads and my CPU heat never became unmanageable (just my powerbill). I swapped my worstation primary heatsink with a riser one just for fun...in hopes of Overclocking but for now it was not needed.

Also when I took off the CPUs to test this week the paste was still in good shape so they were definately not cooking. Interesting find though on the larger heatsinks, but I have to say at stock clocks the smaller heatpipe ones have done just fine under continuous full load.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 26, 2018)

The U016F is all the T5500 came with for 130W CPU so it's good enough. Everyone seems happy with a fan added to the T5500 cooler.
I have a huge colllection of Dell heatpipe coolers. If I see one that looks interesting and it's cheap I grab it.
FN654 is the big cooler for the T7400 that most people haven't seen. 8 heat tubes instead of 6. It probaly had to have a 400fsb CPU to get that cooler.
https://www.serverworlds.com/dell-fn654-precision-690-t7400-heatsink/
FD841 is more common and has a larger center heatpipe. So who knows which is actually better?
https://www.serverworlds.com/dell-fd841-precision-690-t7400-heatsink-w-screws/
W041K is an LGA1366 XPS 730X cooler. 8 pipes and an exhauust fan. I don't have a T7500 to try it in. Made for overclocking i7-990X.
https://www.google.com/search?q=W04...eAhULulMKHS0-CekQsAR6BAgAEAE&biw=1600&bih=827


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## sepheronx (Oct 26, 2018)

Retro, now that my T3500 is setup with the W3680, could you guide me through over locking with throttle stop?

Cpu temps are great after adding on the fan to the cooler. 29 celcius.

Gotta silence that fan though. It's loud even for being a "silent" fan.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 26, 2018)

Unclewebb goes through overclocking that CPU starting on page 4 in this thread.
There is no direct Voltage control. You need to turn up Turbo Power limits, and Turbo Current limits, and Turbo Ratio limits also.
Unclewebb is the developer of TS so he's the real expert here.
If you click Options you get a 2nd page where the good stuff is.


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## unclewebb (Oct 26, 2018)

sepheronx said:


> Gotta silence that fan though.


You can adjust the voltage and fan speed by using different colored wires from any 4 pin Molex connector within your case.    

If you need any help with overclocking just ask.  The posts back on page 4 should guide you in the right direction.  Overclocking the W3680 with ThrottleStop is about as easy an overclocking project as one will ever get.  4000 MHz should be stable and 4133 MHz will probably be living on the edge of stability.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 26, 2018)

What Unclewebb is referring to is using 5V.(red) for a GRD so the fan runs on 7V. So +12V. to +5V. =7V. to slow the fan down.


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## HSADJADI (Oct 27, 2018)

Is there any way to overclock the  e5-1620/e5-1650 or the e5-1620v2/e5-1650v2 on the Dell T3600/T3610's? They are becoming cheap enough to create awesome gaming pc's for flipping locally.
EDIT; or even the i7-3930K


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## Retrorockit (Oct 27, 2018)

If the CPU is unlocked then Throttlestop should be able to overclock it. Unlocked Xeons are an unofficial thing. Generally if there is an unlocked Consumer CPU there's a good chance the equivalent single CPU Xeon is unlocked also. But the Xeon could be based on an older locked version if the unlocked was released later, so not always. No one here has tried that system yet. The X58 systems with 3 channel DDR3 RAM is hanging in there when overclocked.
Here's a thread on unlocked Xeons.
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/xeons-with-an-open-multiplier.15983/page-3
Here are the CPUs that people are running on the T3600. The e5-1650 seems to have the top spot for CPU performance.
.userbenchmark.com/Systemhttps://www/Dell-Precision-T3600/1882
I didn't notice any i7 running there.
I've only looked at the T3600 a little bit and I noticed it seems to be made from server parts more than PC parts. Non ATX PSU, and RDIMMs
If you can find a confirmed unlocked Xeon that will run on that system then you should be good to go.


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## HSADJADI (Oct 27, 2018)

Well firstly, Thank you for your timely and well thought out reply. 
However, I have prior experience with Throttlestop and the T3500's with the W3680 and the i7 975x ES (both of which were able to alter multiplier successfully, thx!).
My issue comes from trying to increase multiplier for the e5-1650 and e5-1650 V2's (both of which are known unlocked xeons) on my newly acquired T3600's.
Throttlestop allows me to change the multiplier in the application, but the cpu does not actualize those settings. It just sits at stock multiplier according to CPU-Z. I'm a bit confused.
The e5-1650 is just a 3930K with ECC support, likewise the e5-1650 v2 being the 2011 socket 4930k. The T3500 is based on X58, the T3600 is based on X79, otherwise very similar (besides the GOLD rated proprietary power source in the T3600). 
Has unclewebb just not had a chance to work out the kinks for the X79 based Dell T3600/T3610?
I truly appreciate any support you can offer!


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## Retrorockit (Oct 27, 2018)

I have no firsthand experience with those CPUs. ASFAIK those can be TS overclocked. There may be certain C state settings that need to be applied. Unclewebb still posts on these threads. But he's probably a lot busier than a retiree like myself. I have had TS need to be opened a 2nd time to apply the settings. There was a "display" mode that wouldn't apply them the first time. But that was in 4.0 on LGA775. Since you're experienced with TS you probably know that the LOCK, and UNLOCK buttons describe what they "will do" and not the state of the CPU.
If you can get a screen shot of TS up here I'm sure Unclewebb can help.

I'm very cautious about giving advice on the T3600. Crucial lists UDIMM memory, and Dell lists RDIMMs. Also Dell lists C600 chipset and not the X79.
https://www.dell.com/support/articl...e-precision-t3600-desktop-workstation?lang=en
In the T3500 X58 overclocking is possible,  the T5500 X5500/5520 can only  run 2 CPU Xeons and can't be overclocked. So the actual chipset can be a big factor.

The T1650 might be worth a look because I'm seeing i7 3770 runnning there getting 78% Cpu scores also. 3770K is the same 77W. If the T3600 doesn't work out the T1650 looks promising.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T1650/2413
https://www.ebay.com/i/183280004259?chn=ps


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 27, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> What Unclewebb is referring to is using 5V.(red) for a GRD so the fan runs on 7V. So +12V. to +5V. =7V. to slow the fan down.


That works but you need to make sure you use the right negative line to ground to. If you use the -12v, you be fine but if you use the -5v, you can potentially cause problems with other components in the system and even the PSU. It might be better to buy a better/quieter fan and a fan cable adapter for Dell computers.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 27, 2018)

I was referring to the leads available in the 4 pin Molex connector. I guess I didn't specify that. +12V. to +5V.=+7V. to the fan. The +5V. is used as the GRD.


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## HSADJADI (Oct 28, 2018)

X79 is c600, same silicon. Just ECC support and SAS controller unlocked vs a x79. Right?


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## Retrorockit (Oct 28, 2018)

Most of us here are still figuring out the T3500 vs. T5500 situation. TS overclocking is uncommon enough that there isn't a vast history to draw on.TS was designed for undervolting laptops. It's ability to get control of Voltage and multiplier with unlocked CPUs from inside Windows is what allows overclocking on otherwise locked computers. It's confirmed in laptops on all series of CPUs.
I started this thread to explore this away from all the laptop undervolting, and BIOS overclocking data overload that's out there already. The T3600 is new and very welcome territory. But the design philosophy changed from the previous workstations. The T3400/3500 used actual desktop chipsets so the rules were very well known. The T5500 it turns out only runs 2QPI CPUs which are all locked. The T3600 uses a workstation chipset to begin with. There are about 6 versions of the C600, and the data sheet is almost1000 pages long. If you get an unlocked CPU to run, then Windows and TS should be able to overclock. But it needs to be confirmed. If you put one together and it doesn't work post some screen shots and we'll see if we can help. There's a very good chance that you're either the first one to try this, or others have just given up and not tried to figure it out, or kept it a secret. This thread is about trying to make progress with this together.
You have myself, Unclewebb, and the guys from the Dell Workstation Owners thread to help figure it out. If we knew the answer to your specific question it would already be in the thread somehwere.
Just about everything we're doing here is undocumented. Unlocked Xeons, overclocking locked BIOS computers. There is some trial and error involved. But learning what doesn't work is just as important as what does.
BTW thanks for posting the unlocked Xeons above.


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## unclewebb (Oct 28, 2018)

HSADJADI said:


> Has unclewebb just not had a chance to work out the kinks for the X79 based Dell T3600/T3610?


No one has bought a T3600 for me to play with yet.  Where I live, they are still out of my price range.

The X79 and C600 may be basically the same but multiplier overclocking might be blocked on the C600.  Do you have any examples of overclocking while using the C600?  

Try adding this line to the ThrottleStop.ini configuration file.

*LockPowerLimits=1*

This might allow overclocking on X79 and C600 if the CPU and chipset both support overclocking.  Without hardware to test with, this is just a wild guess.  After adding that line, restart ThrottleStop and make sure that you are not working on anything important in case ThrottleStop causes your computer to crash.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 1, 2018)

TS helped me out with an LGA771-775  swap. Someone posted that a Xeon would run w/o a modded BIOS in an Optiplex 380. I owned both so of course I had to try it.
X5470 3.33Ghz does run. But the BIOS complains about it. Full fan speed until reboot F1, then select Win7. It runs at the settings of the last good configuration which was a Q9505S.
8.5x333, and 1.2000V. TS allowed me to raise the Voltage to 1.2500V. and the multipler to 10x 340 (Setfsb)  for 3.4Ghz. It also saved the settings to BIOS for me. Which SetFSB doesn't do.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-OptiPlex-380/1942 fastest Opti 380CPU score. Almost all other Optis peak at 41%.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11800068  CPU ranking is +50% for single and 4 core performance. The low rating of 32% for this CPU is because it's bring compared to the many 2 CPU configurations using this CPU. I have a GTX 1060 3GB to put in it if I can get the BIOS sorted out.
My RAM score went down. Maybe SetFSB pushed me into a different latency profile?
 I came across a new trick from a dual CPU T7500 overclock. SetFSB crashes the SATA controlller, and a PCIe SATA card fixes that allowing more BCLK. I can't try it on my Opti because because it was a low end version they used the same MB for the Tower, and the Desktop models by leaving off 1 expansion slot. It's the PCIe 1x that's missing.


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## totalfreq (Nov 2, 2018)

OMG i was in my storage unit and ran across an optiplex 380!!! I have plenty of x56xx's so if i mod 771 to 775 then maybe ill finally be able to use throttlestop to its potential!


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## king of swag187 (Nov 2, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> OMG i was in my storage unit and ran across an optiplex 380!!! I have plenty of x56xx's so if i mod 771 to 775 then maybe ill finally be able to use throttlestop to its potential!


You mean X54xx's? X56xx's are X58/LGA 1366 I think


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## Retrorockit (Nov 2, 2018)

Yes 2 different things. The Opti 380 maxxes out at X5470 3.33Ghz 4 core with very little OC potential. I just used TS to reach LGA771 base clock w/o the BIOS mod to support that CPU.
The X56xx series includes some fast 4 core, and 6 core CPUs. But only a few of the W35xx, and W36xx are unlocked and can use TS overclocking.
A built Opti 380 wpuld have an X5470, 2x4GB DDR3 @ 1066, and a Zotac GTX1050Ti 4GB mini which drops right in and runs off of the Dell PSU.


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## totalfreq (Nov 2, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Yes 2 different things. The Opti 380 maxxes out at X5470 3.33Ghz 4 core with very little OC potential. I just used TS to reach LGA771 base clock w/o the BIOS mod to support that CPU.
> The X56xx series includes some fast 4 core, and 6 core CPUs. But only a few of the W35xx, and W36xx are unlocked and can use TS overclocking.
> A built Opti 380 wpuld have an X5470, 2x4GB DDR3 @ 1066, and a Zotac GTX1050Ti 4GB mini which drops right in and runs off of the Dell PSU.



I will have to check if I have any x54xx, i thought they were x56xx. But i have a zotac 1050ti 4gb and 4 gb ram so im good there.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 3, 2018)

Since there seems to be some interest in the Opti 380/X5470 I went ahead and stuck a bracket modded MSI GTX1060 3GB, and a 375W Dell PSU from an old Pentium4 Mid tower in it.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-OptiPlex-380/1942


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## storm-chaser (Nov 3, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Since there seems to be some interest in the Opti 380/X5470 I went ahead and stuck an MSI GTX1060 3GB, and a 375W Dell PSU from an old Pentium4 Mid tower in it.
> https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-OptiPlex-380/1942


Thanks for posting... I will be sure to run the user benchmark for my OptiPlex 380 systems. I have one with the 1333 FSB mod (thanks retrorocket) and another that is stock which should make for a good comparison.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 3, 2018)

Here's my Geekbench 4
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/10619079
I think the E7500 tapemod willl kill me in single core, and I'm one of the highest already.
BTW I totally borked the BIOS mod part of it. I'll need to start over there. Not a lot of support available for modding the Dell BIOS. You can get pretty close by running a CPUID 1067A LGA775 CPU to get some friendly setting loaded, and then tweak with TS. Definitely a work in progress. The GTX1060 cheered me up after I killed it and had to reset the BIOS to bring it back to "life". I'm still using it to post here, and running benchmarks, but it's a PITA to wake it up now.
The BIOS mod that's out there just changes the platform identifier from 11 (LGA775) to 44 (LGA771). It uses the existing 1067A microcode. This adds :GA771, but removes all LGA775 support.
The part I had trouble with was they use a utility for SysAdmins. to load BIOS updates remotely over a network. Not what I'm used to.

This is actually kind of funny. There is a whole thread (OK it's a small one) about Optiplex 380 gaming machines at OCN.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/237-htpc/1624913-dell-optiplex-380-into-modern-gaming-machine.html
I thought I was the only one running one of these bottom feeders.
But I still miss my 3.72GHz Dimension E520 QX6800 R9-285 rig. The validation link below is for 3.98GHz but that was just a validation run.
If you look at the date it was posted you'll see it was in 2nd spot for a very long time. 3.72 was good for 3rd at the time, but other users with a single clock faster fsb have pushed me off the chart.
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...d652043505520513638303020204020322e393347487a
That's what gave me the TS overclocking bug.
Here's a 3.72GHz Dimension E520 TS overclock. I know the guy from Tomshardware. Same CPU score as X5470 Opti 380. Those orignally came with Pentium 4 CPUs.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/4588263


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## totalfreq (Nov 4, 2018)

Im having a wierd TS issue on a t5500. I just loaded windows 10 64bit fresh. I did the updates and i installed the latest TS. I try and run TS and i get a bunch of dll issues. Im painstakingly running TS writing down the dll error, copying the dll from my t7500 into system 32, rebooting and starting over again to find the next missing dll. 

Is there a faster way or a list of dlls?

Im excited because Im using W5590 ES and Im hoping i will have access to the multiplier.

Ill grind it out one dll at a time but if there is an easier way, please let me know.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 4, 2018)

I'm afraid we've found that the T5500 only supports 5500, and 5600 dual CPU Xeons. Even in single CPU mode. Susquehannock was kind enough to test this for us. None of the 5500/5600 are unlocked multiplier. Only the W3570,W3580 4 core Nehalems, W3680 s, and W3690 6 core Gulftown/Westmeres ( and their i7 equivalent) are unlocked LGA1366 CPUs. SetFSB may work, and a PCIe SATA host card may unlock some potential there.  But the T5500 has turned out to not be a good TS overclocking platform. TS may be looking for some code for the single CPU chips that doesn't exist on that platform.
But of course maybe this is what it will take to make it work? My suggestion would be to pick up a cheap W3570 and see if the dll dance can get it to run. TS overclock so far is only going to happen on a single CPU chipset  (ecept QX9775 LGA771 Extreme CPU).
Even the unlocked dual CPU LGA1366 EVGA Classified SR2 only supports 5500, and 5600 Xeons. So it's probably an issue with the 5520 chipset


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## totalfreq (Nov 4, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I'm afraid we've found that the T5500 only supports 5500, and 5600 dual CPU Xeons. Even in single CPU mode. Susquehannock was kind enough to test this for us. None of the 5500/5600 are unlocked multiplier.



Technically these arent w5590s, they are Q1QW ES chips so Im thinking they have a shot of being unlocked. Im grinding through the DLLs but likely going to take a break and start up again in the morning. Ill keep you posted.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 4, 2018)

I've seen reports of W5580 being unlocked by reviewers, and seen some CPUZ validations that made it look like they were multiplier unlocked. So keep up the good work.
It took me about 6 months to get my E520 overclocked. Nobody knew how to do it. I was struggling to get 3.45GHz stable. When i found the problem it went straight to 3,72GHz stable and 4 GHz validations. All the little things I had done along the way really added up of when I found out the fan speeding up took power from the VRM. 3.4A. Fan wired to Molex and all hell broke loose!

I'm going to stick an OT link in here of another project of mine. It has to do with coffee. My post is in the I made it section.
https://www.instructables.com/id/Hacking-the-Cuisinart-SupremeGrind-for-Espresso/


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## unclewebb (Nov 4, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> I try and run TS and i get a bunch of dll issues


Try installing the Visual C++ Redistributable package.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4032938/update-for-visual-c-2013-redistributable-package

Last time I did a fresh Windows 10 install, these were already included.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 4, 2018)

I have a single slot modded R9 Fury Nano that will fit in the Optiplex 380. I know there will be a BIOS conflict. Sometimes F1 will clear it, sometimes they just won't boot at all. It will probably need another PSU swap. I already have a few of those sitting around. It's a known bad idea. If it runs and I put it up on the benchmarks I wouldn't want anybody to take that as a confirmation that it's a good mod. The R9-285 in my E520 was that way. When I get the X5470 dialed in I probably won't be able to resist trying this.


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## totalfreq (Nov 5, 2018)

storm-chaser said:


> Thanks for posting... I will be sure to run the user benchmark for my OptiPlex 380 systems. I have one with the 1333 FSB mod (thanks retrorocket) and another that is stock which should make for a good comparison.



So installed the package you recommended but no dice. I also manually moved over the dlls that were missing and i still get the error that mfc120u.dll & MSVCR120.dll was not found. I dont feel like editing the registry to add them as pointers at the moment so I'm going to pull a drive I have running in another T5500 and see if I can make it run on that temporarily.

For informational purposes I am running:
I am running Windows 10 64bit OEM - update 1803 - windows is up to date.

****** EDIT ******

Didnt work with new drive. Ive verified the DLLs are in system 32, updated the C++, and manually copied the DLLs from a working machine. Unfortunately I erased the working T5500 + throttlestop disk I had to use it as a scratch disk and reinstalled windows on a SSD.

I'm going to see if I can find an older version of the program, maybe there is a bug in the latest download file available.


****** UPDATE ******

Got it working I had to install both the x64 and x86 c++ packs.


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## sepheronx (Nov 5, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> You can adjust the voltage and fan speed by using different colored wires from any 4 pin Molex connector within your case.
> 
> If you need any help with overclocking just ask.  The posts back on page 4 should guide you in the right direction.  Overclocking the W3680 with ThrottleStop is about as easy an overclocking project as one will ever get.  4000 MHz should be stable and 4133 MHz will probably be living on the edge of stability.



All I want is 4ghz out of that thing.  I am waiting on the 5pin dell connection to 4pin (got the splitters) so I can have fan control.


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## totalfreq (Nov 5, 2018)

The W5590 ES are ???????? Unlocked maybe???????

Do I need to check or uncheck anything - I was able to raise the multiplier to 28T but only seeing 25 in the FID with normal frequencies when I stress test. 

Any help is appreciated. I feel so close yet so far away. Its like the multiplier field is unlocked but its not accepting the value.


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## unclewebb (Nov 5, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> Do I need to check or uncheck anything


For the Set Multiplier feature to work correctly, SpeedStep needs to be checked.

If you change CPUs, you need to delete the ThrottleStop.INI config file before running ThrottleStop.  Some people have ThrottleStop on a USB stick and move it around from one computer to the next.  If you do this, you always have to remove the ThrottleStop.INI file.  ThrottleStop will create a new config file as soon as it runs and doesn't find an old config file.  That might explain why ThrottleStop is showing 28T.  The default multiplier for a retail W5590 is 25 so with a fresh ThrottleStop.INI file, I think this setting should max out at 26T.

Try clicking on the TRL button.  On an unlocked CPU, you will be able to adjust the turbo multipliers in there.  Also try clicking on the TPL button.  On an unlocked CPU you will be able to adjust the Turbo Power Limits.  Unlocked power limits are just as important as an unlocked multiplier.

Edit - Your screenshot shows that you have half of your CPU disabled.  By default, a W5590 will show 4 Cores - 8 Threads in CPU-Z.  You either have 2 Cores - 4 Threads or 4 Cores - 4 Threads.  Make sure the bios is set appropriately and if that is OK, in msconfig click on the Boot tab, Advanced options and make sure the Number of processors box is not checked.  You will need to reboot if you change this setting so Windows can find all of your CPU.


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## totalfreq (Nov 5, 2018)

Confirmed - W5590 - not unlocked - I copied over my working TS in an attempt to get it all working right, after ini reset I max out at 26T @ 3.458ghz

so add to the list :

W5590 ES - not unlocked only +1 T mode.


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## unclewebb (Nov 5, 2018)

I tried a similar retail W5580 and it was also multiplier locked.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/throttlestop-overclocking-desktop-pcs.235975/post-3829491

The W5590 does have a 27 multiplier available when running single core loads.  You need to have the C States enabled in the bios to access this though.  Run a single thread of the TS Bench.  With C States enabled, you should see a multiplier higher than 26 but Windows background tasks will prevent you from seeing the full 27.  The less background tasks running, the closer you will get to 27.  If TS is only showing 26.00, the C3 or C6 C states are not enabled.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 6, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> W5590 ES - not unlocked only +1 T mode.


Thanks for trying that.  Unclewebb tried a W5580, and Susquehannock explored the unlocked CPUs on the T5500.
It looks like TS overclocking is confirmed on the X58 chipset Dell, and HP workstations with the W3570,W3580 4 core Nehalems, and the W3680,W3690 6 core Westmeres. Plus the LGA1366 i7X series. There's been some success reported on dual CPU SetFSB with the T7500 using an SATA card to eliminate OS freezes. That might be a way forward for some of these other platforms and CPUs.
It just occured to me that the W5590 ES hasn't been tried in the X58 T3500. TS OC isn't actually confirmed in the T5500 with any CPU. But I guess there wouldn't be any advantge to the 2QPI chip then.


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## totalfreq (Nov 6, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> It just occured to me that the W5590 ES hasn't been tried in the X58 T3500. TS OC isn't actually confirmed in the T5500 with any CPU. But I guess there wouldn't be any advantge to the 2QPI chip then.



Unfortunately I dont have a t3500 yet. Its next on the list but I just ordered an i7-8086k to break 5ghz so it may be a while until i have more funds.
I was planning to use TS with a dell 8930 and the 8086k, but I opted to go all out with a Maximus X and build from the ground up. Im not going for top speed, but 5ghz+ stable would be awesome and acheivable. Also unfortunate there is now a classified sr2 now $400 on ebay I would have bought if I wasnt broke...but maybe next year.

If your interested in the w5590/Q1QW ES to test with your t3500 let me know...but true little advantage to a 2qpi chip on t3500. I think ive been through all the 2qpi chips on the t5500/t7500 unless there is an unlocked e series???? I have some so maybe worth trying???


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## Retrorockit (Nov 6, 2018)

There was a guy selling SR2 for $350 around here a while ago. Probably a stock trader from where he was located and the fact he had 10 of them. I didn't bite because of the need for a special size case, and monstrous PSU to run it. Buying the MB would have been a stretch at the time, but all the other parts to run it would have been impossible.
 Something I wanted to try but couldn't get my hands on a T7400 was a reverse LGA771 swap. Electrically the adapter tape should convert an LGA775 to run on an LGA771 MB. I have a pair of QX9650. Whether the BIOS and Chipset would allow it was the question. Faking a QX9775 Skulltrail in a Dell workstation looked like  fun. It didn't matter if it worked or not because the T7400 does support the 400fsb Xeons so a pinmod to 4GHz on the X5470 for 2 CPU 4Ghz was plan B. That's why I have 2 of those also. It's kind of strange that stock traders are buying up all the old T series Dells but dumping the much faster EVGA SR2. I guess they really do know something I don't.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 7, 2018)

I found out something interesting about my Optiplex 380 Xeon adventure. I wanted to visit an infected website. So I unplugged my SSD and booted Linux on a DVD drive and my fan problem went away. So it's not the Dell BIOS freaking out over the Xeon it's Windows7! If I reboot and hit F! it goes away also. But restore form sleep the fan speeds up. Any ideas how to solve that?


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## totalfreq (Nov 7, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I found out something interesting about my Optiplex 380 Xeon adventure. I wanted to visit an infected website. So I unplugged my SSD and booted Linux on a DVD drive and my fan problem went away. So it's not the Dell BIOS freaking out over the Xeon it's Windows7! If I reboot and hit F! it goes away also. But restore form sleep the fan speeds up. Any ideas how to solve that?




I used to support around 200+ Optiplex and actually dealt with this alot.

I assume you are talking case fans?

Soft Options:
Fan control should be a setting in the bios, but if you are using a hacked bios and dont have the option...maybe try a program like speedfan?

Hard Options:
You should check the temp sensor cable - in some Optiplex there are 2x - front and rear. When they go bad its 100% fanspeed like a jet engine taking off. Sometimes removing the sensor will fix the issue, other times removal defaults to 100% protection mode depending on the bios. If you want to replace the sensor its R434D.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 7, 2018)

The Opti 380 is BTX so only one fan.  The sensor is working fine. Normal fan speeds with overclock and prime95. If I start form a hard reset and hit F1 to get past the unsupported CPU message it's OK. But first start, or wake from sleep it goes to 100%. Since unplugging the SSD and then plugging it back in I've run a lot of BIOS and Windows error checking utilities. So I'm not really sure if it's exactly the same now in all situations. At the moment it's just fine. But that was after a few restarts.


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## totalfreq (Nov 8, 2018)

I wont claim to know DCC as its pretty new to me but...

Look up dell command configure

It looks like this will bypass the post alerts (ie no need to f1)

--warningsanderrors contonwarnanderrors

Then disable sleep/hibernate...problem solved. I personally disable sleep/hibernate on every desktop I touch.

Its a mask I know but it should get you closer to what you are looking for.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 8, 2018)

While I was torturing the Opti 380 I tried a couple of 8GB DDR3 1333 modules. They were ECC so it may not prove anything that they didn't work. But one of the mysteries of the Opti 380 is can the G41 chipset which supports 16GB RAM recognize it on 2 RAM slots?


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## totalfreq (Nov 8, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> While I was torturing the Opti 380 I tried a couple of 8GB DDR3 1333 modules. They were ECC so it may not prove anything that they didn't work. But one of the mysteries of the Opti 380 is can the G41 chipset which supports 16GB RAM recognize it on 2 RAM slots?



Interesting question - I think the G41 only supports 8GB though 2x4GB DDR3 or 4GB 2x2GB DDR2. It will run ECC though - just not registered or buffered.

I looked at the ram in mine last week and I think it was running PC3-12800 1066. I'm going back to my storage unit tomorrow so I'll take a closer look.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 9, 2018)

8GB is twice the rated Opti 380 capacity so it's not a bad deal anyway. But 4 memory slot G41 MB have been reported to run 16GB. One reason I went from the GTX1050Ti 4GB to the 3GB GTX1060 was to reduce the amount of RAM texture caching by the GPU.
 Unclewebb may be pleased to know that I've finally used Throttlestop for it's intended purpose. Since finding out my fan speed issue was in Windows, and SetFSB didn't produce much speed. I decided to try undervolting the X5470. Running Prime95 I got it down to 1.1125V. stable and 59*C @3.33GHz. Then using HWinfo64 fan speed controller I just set a manual fan speed of 1100 RPM which resulted in a very acceptable 62*C. for P95. So no Dell BIOS modding. I still need to FI on a reboot, but I can wake it up w/o the fan @100% and rebooting to stop it.


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## deadlylover (Nov 10, 2018)

I picked up a couple of Dell T3600 systems with the E5-1620's for a price I couldn't refuse, especially for Australia where good deals aren't so plentiful.

Like a previous poster mentioned, I am able to increase the turbo multipliers but it has no effect after 37. Similarly, set multiplier works only for 36 and under. I cannot untick the 'lock' on the turbo boost power limit.

Let me know what you guys want me to try and I'm happy to help.  I have attached a screenshot of TS and CPU-Z.

The VRM looks to be a 6 phase using the ISL6366 controller with IRFH5300 (100A) and IRFH8311 (25A) MOSFETs. I might shove a thermocouple on them to see how hot they get.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 10, 2018)

HSADJADI said:


> Well firstly, Thank you for your timely and well thought out reply.
> However, I have prior experience with Throttlestop and the T3500's with the W3680 and the i7 975x ES (both of which were able to alter multiplier successfully, thx!).
> My issue comes from trying to increase multiplier for the e5-1650 and e5-1650 V2's (both of which are known unlocked xeons) on my newly acquired T3600's.
> Throttlestop allows me to change the multiplier in the application, but the cpu does not actualize those settings. It just sits at stock multiplier according to CPU-Z. I'm a bit confused.
> ...


Someone else started a project like that on page 20 but we haven't heard from him since. He does list some unlocked CPUs which Throttlestop needs to overclock. Some people have success and keep it to themselves. Some just give up. We were discussing something else and may be he thought we were ignoring him. None of us here have first hand experience overclocking that specific system. But we'll be glad to help and would welcome any report of progress, or problems so others can benefit.

I tweaked the Optimax 380 with SetFSB and Afterburner and got a 50% gaming score. They haven't published that run yet. Might not be enough improvement over the previous 48% score.


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## unclewebb (Nov 10, 2018)

@deadlylover - Overclocking might be locked but here are a couple of things that you can try.

Open up the ThrottleStop.INI config file and add this line.

*LockPowerLimits=1*

Save this change and then try starting ThrottleStop.  This trick has never been tried on older hardware so your computer might crash.  

If ThrottleStop starts up, go into the Turbo Ratio Limits window and set all of those to 43 just like you have in the pic.  Click on OK, go out to the main screen and make sure that the Set Multiplier and SpeedStep options are both checked.  Try decreasing the Set Multiplier value a couple of notches and then try increasing it to the maximum.  Open up the TS Bench test and run a 1 Thread test.  While that test is running, take a screenshot of ThrottleStop and post a picture of that.

I have never done any hands on testing of Sandy Bridge or Xeon Sandy Bridge from this era.  It would definitely be interesting if we could get overclocking working.  A working 43 multi Xeon Sandy would give us X58 enthusiasts something to look forward to when the price is right.


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## deadlylover (Nov 11, 2018)

unclewebb said:


> @deadlylover - Overclocking might be locked but here are a couple of things that you can try.



I'm uncertain if adding the line did anything on this system, ThrottleStop didn't crash on start. I'm on Win 7 Pro at the moment, I may upgrade one of the other machines to Windows 10 to see if the behaviour is any different.

I've attached the single thread screenshot:



I've found something funny when I hit it with an 8 thread load, occasionally for a split second with 'more data' switched on, I see the FID change to 43 on one of the cores/threads. It was quite difficult getting this screenshot, and I think the update rates on CPU-Z and HWinfo64 was not quick enough to catch the 43 multiplier.

It feels like we do have "control", but there's something else that turns it back down to the max all core turbo of 37x. I hope this was helpful.


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## unclewebb (Nov 11, 2018)

The E5-1620 uses the 38 multiplier when a single core is active.  Your first screenshot shows an average multiplier of 37.73.  This means that the 38 multiplier is being used about 75% of the time and the 37 multiplier is being used the other 25% of the time during this test.  With less items running in the background, you might get a little closer to the 38 multiplier but that is about it. 

The second screenshot that shows a 43.00 multiplier is just a glitch.  Sometimes running other monitoring apps at the same time can interfere with getting 100% accurate results.

The E5-1620 is capable of overclocking but probably not on this board.  You can also try using Intel XTU but you will probably end up with the same results.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 11, 2018)

I wonder if reflash to an older BIOS, or microcode version might help. I've heard that some of the unlocked Xeons got patched back to normal. I haven't followed the "newer" platforms much but I think I recall something about this.


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## deadlylover (Nov 11, 2018)

I will play around some more next weekend.

I installed the E5-1620 into a HP Z820 and it's the same result as the Dell T3600, ThrottleStop overclocking doesn't seem to work unfortunately. I wonder if there are any confirmed reports of it working on Sandy Bridge E.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 11, 2018)

Here's the page with the BIOS mention.
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/xeons-with-an-open-multiplier.15983/page-3
Those guys are all about the newer unlocked Xeons. Give them a try and then maybe TS will work for you.

Mentions of TS overclocking are few and far between. Unclewebb has probably seen most of  what there is. He tracks TS mentions pretty closely in several large forums.
A lot of what we're doing here either hasn't been done before. Like Dell workstaion overclocking, or if it's been done/tried it wasn't documented and valuable information was lost.
The CPU you're using was "partially" unlocked, and possibly re-locked by Intel. I think the E5-1650 is more fully unlocked and maybe v1, and v2 share a socket?
Unfortunately we're finding lots of CPUZ validations with raised multipliers on known locked CPUs. So be very careful of relying on that source.
I would do a little more research with the conventional overclockers on that platform. You might find an explanation for the issue there.

On a completely different note. While studying the manual of the MSI aftermarket version of the x58 Alienware MB I acquired. I found it had overclocking dipswitches.( If you have to ask you're too young to be told about them). A 3 pole switch with setting for 133,166, and 200 BCLK. The switch is missing on the AW but the pads are still there. I wonder if this is the key to an X58 BCLK pinmod?
I'm drooling thinking about how easy the LGA775 266-333fsb tapemod was!
Page 34 of the pdf. here.
file:///C:/Users/BTXFAC~1/AppData/Local/Temp/Rar$DIa8900.20098/7593v1.0(G52-75931X2)(X58M)EURO.pdf

While I'm at it (I've been into the Aeropress coffee this morning) I was looking through my Dell CPU cooler coolection and found an LGA1366 heatpipe cooler with fan. It fits in the same cooling zone as the T3500/5500 coolers, and has the Dell LGA1366 stud above the MB mounting bolts. It's from an XPS 435MT. #0P041K. It doesn't have the 5 pin fan connector, and the fan blows into the cooler. But it looks like it would work for the 2nd CPU on a T500/7500. 6 coooling tubes vs. 4 is the advantage. Or upgrade for an overclocked T3500.
The listings for this are very confusing because it gets listed all over the place for the Optiplex 960 which is an LGA775 BTX and I know it won't fit that. The correct fitment is the LGA1366 XPS435MT.
If you search Optiplex 960 heatsink this won't come up. But if you search this part# Opti 960 is just about all you'll get.


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## TripleSiiix (Nov 27, 2018)

I want to say thank you to everybody who decided to take the time to put all of this information together. Retrorockit for starting this thread up, giving me the incentive to look further into overclocking.
I created an account just to post in this thread, to try to give what little input I could towards the cause. I've had the same computer for.. longer than I care to remember, and I ended up being gifted and older computer, newer than mine though. A dell, xps 410. After stripping all of my other towers, I got the thing to work. Relearned a lot about OS installation, and just, building a computer again.
I started to get the itch. And looked into what I could do to power it up a little further. Somehow I stumbled upon overclocking. Massive info dump later, I came to realize that more or less, this set up was locked thanks to intel/dell. No options in the BIOS to change. By some chance of luck, I found throttlestop. Little bread crumbs here and there led me to this thread, where I've found out that Throttlestop can possibly help me out.
I'd like to become further aquainted with this forum, and all of it's valuable information. Especially you guys, and your pioneering.
I've found out that it's not impossible to overclock one of these, Dell's xps 410, but those examples are few and far between, coming from people years ahead of me in experience.
I'd like to document my research along with yours, in hopes something good will come out of it all.
Now, I've installed Throttlestop, and opened it up a few times, always intimidated. I see that it would let me change the multiplier, and possibly the voltage as well.
I've read so many articles, and reports, my head's swimming in data.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 27, 2018)

Come to POPPA! You're in luck. The XPS 410 aka Dimension 9200 is the same as the Dimension E520 in my sig. except it's a mid tower and has room for a full sized GPU, and already has a PCIe 6 pin cable. The 4 phase MB is a beast. i was in 2nd place for a couple years at CPUZ with a QX6800 SLACP on that. The link is in my sig. Check the MB for swollen or discolored capacitor end caps. That's usually the end for them.
 Here's where I dumped all my BTX overclocking info.
http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2897377/overclocking-dell-btx-computers.html
Here's an E520 running 3.7GHz. I know the guy from Tomshardware.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/4588263
 Realistically that's the same CPU score as my Optiplex 380/Xeon X5470 3.33GHz. That's still kicking it pretty good considering they came with Pentium4 CPUs. That thing will be 14 years old in December.


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## HSADJADI (Dec 2, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> Someone else started a project like that on page 20 but we haven't heard from him since. He does list some unlocked CPUs which Throttlestop needs to overclock. Some people have success and keep it to themselves. Some just give up. We were discussing something else and may be he thought we were ignoring him. None of us here have first hand experience overclocking that specific system. But we'll be glad to help and would welcome any report of progress, or problems so others can benefit.
> 
> I tweaked the Optimax 380 with SetFSB and Afterburner and got a 50% gaming score. They haven't published that run yet. Might not be enough improvement over the previous 48% score.


Unfortunately no luck. I'm willing to do anything yall suggest tho.


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## SoNic67 (Dec 2, 2018)

@Retrorockit do you know what's the clock generator chip on a Dell T5500 motherboard model 0D883F ? Of where I need to look for it on the board itself?


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## Retrorockit (Dec 2, 2018)

HSADJADI said:


> Unfortunately no luck. I'm willing to do anything yall suggest tho.


The XPS 410 overclocks best with a QX6800 SLACP. The QX6800 SL9UM, and QX6700, and X6800 2 core are B3 stepping and run hotter and won't go as fast but do work OK other than that.
 There's nothing wrong with using one of those to learn your way around TS overclocking. Everything you learn will apply to the SLACP later.
Cooling the 12 VRM MOSFETs gains about .050V. Since they're mounted vertically a little creativity is required. But gluing some thick metal foil flags on has been reported to work.
Cooling in the Mid Towers needs cooler T9303 aka XP850. That should get you to 3.45GHz. with a SLACP ( That's the average overclock on this chip at CPUZ BTW ). Set a High Performance user profile in Control Panel, and turn Windows Security to Low .
Avast Antivirus, Malwarebytes, and MBAR (Malware Bytes Anti Rootkit) porvides a free security suite. Use Throttlestop 6.00 to avoid all the confusing setting of later versions. Go back and read the first few pages of this thread for a few tips on TS. When you get that far come back and we'll talk about 3.73GHz and beyond. That's when we get out the saws and soldering irons.


SoNic67 said:


> @Retrorockit do you know what's the clock generator chip on a Dell T5500 motherboard model 0D883F ? Of where I need to look for it on the board itself?


Locate the Crystal. It's in a small metal oval can with 14.xxx stamped onit. It's between the first PCIe slot, and last RAM slot. The  rectangular chip next to it is the PLL. ICS932S421BGLF
A T7500 overclocker with the same PLL reports that SATA crashes with increased fsb. A bootable PCIe RAID/SATA card sidesteps the issue and allows actual overclocking to occur.


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## SoNic67 (Dec 2, 2018)

I found it, thanks!
My RAID card supportes booting, but wants ti initialize the drive. No way!
I also have a PCIe SATA card. I'll try that, but it means that I'll loose the USB3.0 that uses that slot now. Maybe I'll try to buy a combo card...


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## Retrorockit (Dec 3, 2018)

Is your RAID card in the 64 bit PCI slot?


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## SoNic67 (Dec 3, 2018)

No, my RAID is in the PCIe. And the other SATA one is in PCIe too. Will that be OK? I assume that the PCI bus will get OC too? I have a sound card there.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 3, 2018)

I haven't heard of PCI issues with Setfsb. My DDR increases with Setfsb but PCI stays at 33.3mhz. I just tried it. My PCI network card in my opti 380 works with etFSB overclock.
I came across this liitle dude.
https://www.startech.com/support/PCIX1PEX4
So It looks like PCI-X 2.0 can handle PCIe 4x workloads.


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## SoNic67 (Dec 3, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> I came across this liitle dude.
> https://www.startech.com/support/PCIX1PEX4
> So It looks like PCI-X 2.0 can handle PCIe 4x workloads.


That's cool! I'll keep in mind.
For now I  have ordered this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Syba-USB-3...-Profile-Bra/262335239089?hash=item3d146613b1


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## Retrorockit (Dec 3, 2018)

That's very nice. I hope you get a good SetFSB OC going.
Are you 2 CPU yet? Or trying it out on a single setup first.


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## SoNic67 (Dec 3, 2018)

Baby steps 
I still don't know how much memory can go on the CPU riser.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 4, 2018)

The way those are setup is 6 slots on the MB and 3 slots on the riser. The plan is for 3 matching modules on each to start, and then an upgrade would move the 3 on the riser to the MB, and add 3 larger modules on the riser to doubl.e capacity. At least that's what I see being done. Dell says 8GB modules, and I see the manual lists of 9x8GB for 72 GB.
Server World sells a Dell 20D6F 16GB module and lists it for the T5500. So maybe 144GB? I think 3x8, then 6x8, and then add 3x16 should work well.


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## SoNic67 (Dec 4, 2018)

I didn't buy the 16GB modules because... it was too much. I still have 6x4GB avail (3 single and 3 dual rank) so I was thinking to use those.

I have tried to OC via TS, but all I can see for multiplier is max 24T. In CPU-Z I see 12-26, so IDK.
I have also tries with SetFSB, and using the correct ICS, I can change the FSB and that affects also the DDR speed. No changes in the PCIe/PCI speeds. However, even minute changes, locks the computer up so again... IDK.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 4, 2018)

The guy at OCN who used Setfsb to OC his dual CPU T7500 rig said it locks up the SATA ports. Do you have the HDD/SSD on PCIe yet? That's supposed to be the trick.
https://www.overclock.net/forum/5-i...rclocking-dual-xeon-dell-precision-t7500.html
TS only works on unlocked CPUs, and those only work on the X58  T3500 workstations. The unlocked LGA1366 are all 1QPI, and the T5500 only supports 2QPI CPUs.
My Opti 380 Xeon swap does the same thing. But it only has 32 bit PCI slots for a controller card. But it has to share the PCI bus with a network card because my onboard NIC was dead.


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## SoNic67 (Dec 4, 2018)

So... if I deactivate the onboard SATA driver, then it doesn't lock up? That's weird, I'll try when I get the second card.


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## totalfreq (Dec 6, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> The way those are setup is 6 slots on the MB and 3 slots on the riser. The plan is for 3 matching modules on each to start, and then an upgrade would move the 3 on the riser to the MB, and add 3 larger modules on the riser to doubl.e capacity. At least that's what I see being done. Dell says 8GB modules, and I see the manual lists of 9x8GB for 72 GB.
> Server World sells a Dell 20D6F 16GB module and lists it for the T5500. So maybe 144GB? I think 3x8, then 6x8, and then add 3x16 should work well.



I can confirm 72gb on the T5500 is a valid config.


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## SoNic67 (Dec 6, 2018)

totalfreq said:


> I can confirm 72gb on the T5500 is a valid config.


What motherboard do you have? CPUZ knows.


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## totalfreq (Dec 7, 2018)

SoNic67 said:


> What motherboard do you have? CPUZ knows.



I no longer have the T5500 I had it running in (I built a gaming system for my friends kid). It was a very early model though - if you look back in this thread I have pictures where I had to modify the HDD0 to connect the power for a fullsize GTX 1060, because unlike the newer T5500's the HDD0 bay wasnt removeable - so it was likely an early board. Also I was either on Bios 16 or 17 at the time. I used Dell branded (hynix) 8gb registered sticks. I had 12 of them (96gb) in a T610, that I moved (all 96gb) to a T7500, and then wanted to see if the T5500 would support 9 of them (72gb) which it did. The ram is now back in my T7500 at work.

I can try and contact my friend and see if I can walk him through CPUz, but I imagine if an early board like mine could do it using a modern BIOS - they all should support at least 72gb.


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## Susquehannock (Dec 13, 2018)

Using either TS or IETU, it seems my W3680/T3500 caps at 4.0ghz no matter what. No complaints. Overclocking potential is never guaranteed. System as configured in signature runs very well. And nice and cool now the CPU and heat sink are lapped.

Interesting watching the "buy it now" prices on Ebay. The W3680 keep ticking upward. No doubt due to their unlocked status. At same time all other 1366 xeon are falling.



totalfreq said:


> I can try and contact my friend and see if I can walk him through CPUz, but I imagine if an early board like mine could do it using a modern BIOS - they all should support at least 72gb.


Or your friend could observe sticker on the board itself. Should be next to CMOS battery. 72gb makes sense since the T5500 manual dated September 2009 (definitely old board) does list 8x9=72gb as a good configuration.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Dec 14, 2018)

My Z400 build just randomly dropped 3 of the RAM slots...after reseating the RAM a seemingly endless amount of times, got it all working again...wonder why that happened...nothing has been touched on the PC since I built it...


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## Retrorockit (Dec 14, 2018)

Overtightening of the CPU cooler has caused that for some people at OCN. IDK about Z400 though.


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## SamirD (Dec 19, 2018)

I just found this thread after being pointed to it by a friend.  I have a lot of stock Dell systems that I never though would have a shot at overclocking.  Looks like that has just changed.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 19, 2018)

If you could list what you have I can give you some idea which ones have potential.


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## SamirD (Dec 19, 2018)

Retrorockit said:


> If you could list what you have I can give you some idea which ones have potential.


Oh wow, thank you!
210L
745
755
330 with 380 motherboard
2350
990
4500S
4600
GX240
GX520
INSPIRON 620
670
2950


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## Retrorockit (Dec 19, 2018)

SamirD said:


> Oh wow, thank you!
> 210L
> 745- QX6800 SLACP TS overclockable to about 3.45Ghz X6800 3.72 I think. 8GB DDR2 800
> 755- Q6600 SLACR BSEL tape to 3GHz but Q9650 is 10% better anyway. E7500 to 3.6GHz same mod.
> ...


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## SamirD (Dec 19, 2018)

Thank you for all the feedback!  As you can tell, most are quite old, but they still run so they're on the network and handed a task they can do well.

I forgot to mention the 745 and 755 are USFF which I know limits a lot.  4500s is a socket 478 so probably no chance like the other 478s.  I have one 2950 with dual x5450s in it that I haven't configured yet and the other is stuck at 5160s since it's a series I.  Didn't know if TS could do anything with those so I listed them anyways.  Seems like the 2xxx series core processor based systems are where I have a chance.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 19, 2018)

USFF has no GPU slot so not much  can be done there. Socket 478 is 32 bit OS only. But laptops ran that socket well into core2 Quad and Extreme. If the opti 380 is an MT it's a good subject for an X5470 swap.
The 1st,4th,and 8th here are my Opti 380 project. The 5th is a guy I walked through the swap at Tomshardware Forum . He would be in 4th except no SSD.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-OptiPlex-380/1942


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## SamirD (Dec 20, 2018)

Yeah, there's not much hope for them besides the e8600 I already have in the 755 and the q6600 in the 745.  Interesting to hear about the 478 in laptops.

Ah, I have some other 380 Motherboards I was thinking of swapping into the other btx cases as upgrades so that's good to know.  The current 380 has a x3360 in it.  Do you think I would be able to overclock that using TS?


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## Retrorockit (Dec 20, 2018)

TS requires an unlocked CPU and those are all 130W. ASFIK alll the Optis except the 745, and 380 are 95W limited. The 380 goes 120W but not 130W. The PentiumD suppport of the 745 allows 130W Core 2 Extremes but only the 266fsb versions. The SLACP is the only G0 stepping, the others are B3 and crap out about 1 multiplier lower. The 2 core X6800 is B3 also or it would be a 4GHz CPU. The X5470 is the fast 380 setup and Setfsb gains almost nothing. Q9650 in the 755.
All the 333fsb Optis can run the E7500 266fsb 2 core at 3.6Ghz with just a piece of tape.
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2125877/tape-mod-bsel-mod-intel-q6600.html
 If you can find more Voltage then the Q6700 to 3.33GHz, and E7600 to 3.8Ghz can be taped also. It can be done but it's a CPU by CPU process and not so easy to describe.
The X3360 is the same as my Q9505s, Q9500 CPU and there's nothing wrong with that setup. But my hobby is showing what the maximum is for old Dells and publishing it to help others.
 They called 478 Socket P and in laptops it's been thoroughly overclocked. getting a  BIOS to run one on a 478MB would be the hard part. I suspect it has been done. But that would be MB by MB.


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## SamirD (Dec 20, 2018)

Awesome info.  Thank you!


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## Retrorockit (Dec 24, 2018)

While things are quiet here I guess I'll post about the Optiplex from hell. I just found out about the Optiplex XE ( Extreme Environment) designed for up to 50*C. ambient service. It's the only Optiplex i've ever seen with 4 phase VRM. So of course Dell only sold this beast with 2 core 65W CPUs! G45 Chipset, heatsink on the NB and SB chips, 4 DDR3 1066 slots, PCIe x16, and x1 slots so maybe a SetFSB unlock via SATA card? G45 supports Xeon swapping. Very few examples at Userbenchmark but one with Q9650 so there's that. 120W Xeons? 130W Core 2 Extremes? It only came in DT and SFF sizes, but the DT has 4 expansion slots like an MT. The PSU size seems generous 300W DT,280W SFF until you read the label and find out it's powering a 24V. rail for a 24V. USB port on the rear. WTH is that for? 24V.  seems like military stuff to me. Anyway I ordered a DT motherboard to see what I can figure out. It has it's own cooling setup. Copper finned heatsink in a metal shroud. I hope the BTX standard coolers fit it. It is an LGA775 BTX Optiplex. I've had very good results with 4 phase Dell BTX MB. 4GHz with a QX6800 on a Dell Dimension E520.
 It also has 2x RJ-45 network connectors, PS2 ports that most Optis don't have. Even the T3400 BTX workstation which goes past 4GHz easily with a QX9650 doesn't have 4 phase VRM.


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## jbkelly80 (Dec 28, 2018)

New guy sent over from Tom's Hardware.  About to put my T3500 with a X5687 , XFX RX 580 8gb oc+ , 32gb Corsair Vengeance , Corsair GS800 , Corsair LL120 RGB all around, in a Phanteks P400TG.  Obviously not able to OC, but any other advice?


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## Retrorockit (Dec 29, 2018)

Welcome aboard. It's been kind of quiet here during the holidays. Might take a while for a reply. But you're in the right place. Maybe you'll do an OC after you get it built. But we like "Mission Impossible" stuff here. I personally haven't done this sort of swap but others here have.
 I went shopping for an Opti XE. Too expensive on Ebay. Only saw one for sale on Craigslist. Drove 100 miles to see it. Came back with 3 of them and a T3500 for $80.
I guess this is where I find out what P.O.S. computer really means.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Dec 30, 2018)

You mean Piece of Shi...oh, Point Of Sales...yeah.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 30, 2018)

SamirD said:


> Yeah, there's not much hope for them besides the e8600 I already have in the 755 and the q6600 in the 745.  Interesting to hear about the 478 in laptops.
> 
> Ah, I have some other 380 Motherboards I was thinking of swapping into the other btx cases as upgrades so that's good to know.  The current 380 has a x3360 in it.  Do you think I would be able to overclock that using TS?


There's one possibility I didn't mention for the Opti 380 because it's unconfirmed. It responds to SetFSB overclcoking but just a slight amount. This may be due to SATA bus freezing. On some other systems this has been resolved by moving the SATA controller to an add in card. But the 380 has no PCIe x1 slot so it would have to be an old PCI controller. Probably OK with an HDD but might defeat the purpose of an SSD setup (like mine).

Got a good look at the POS. Unsupported by SetFSB PLL chip SLG8XP523T. The 4 phase VRM has 2 MOSFETs per phase, but room for a third one. They even went so far as to have solder dots on the pads already for the 3rd MOSFET. Cooler bolt pattern is different than other BTX. Shared only with Optiplex 960, but that gets me a 4 heatpipe cooler assy (ordered). I have an old Opti 745 DT 6 pipe cooler I can easily mount, but the fan duct will need to be made. I'll wait and see if I need it. This is my first DT size computer, Dell offered a little known 90* PCIe bracket to use full height video cards on these (ordered NOS). I think an SATA PCIe controller will get the SATA data cables out of the way so I can get a 2 slot wide GPU in there. ZOTAC GTX1050 Ti Mini looks good to go, and the MSI GTX1060 3GB also. Not sure what's available PSU wise for these. An old 2 rail Pentium D era Dell PSU will get some power but no PCIe cable.
I was hoping a Xeon swap with an SATA card would get a nice SetFSB overclock but the PLL chip issue will require some investigation. So for now it's up to the BIOS dudes to get an unlocked CPU running. They say a QX9650 C0 has a good chance of running. I think that's what I have.


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## jbkelly80 (Dec 31, 2018)

I got the T3500 in the Phanteks P400TG. Tight fit.  Need help with the Dell front connections.   How can I get the MB to work with the new case?  It boots up.  Works like normal.  Would just like to use the power button and usb ports on new case.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 1, 2019)

jbkelly80 said:


> I got the T3500 in the Phanteks P400TG. Tight fit.  Need help with the Dell front connections.   How can I get the MB to work with the new case?  It boots up.  Works like normal.  Would just like to use the power button and usb ports on new case.



There is an internal USB socket right in front of the MB Battery for an FDD bay card reader. Should be able to run some USB ports off of that.
 I found an interesting cooler for LGA 1366 workstations (yes it's made for them) Dynatron G17. It's very much like the cooling mod I showed Mangupta in the workstation thread but with one more heatpipe. I ordered one.
https://www.neweggbusiness.com/Prod...J43TpvvOlmBUTvloRg8aAiknEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
 I just realized that with the T3500 I picked up for $20 with the 3x POS computers, and the W3580 I already have, I can actually build an overclocked X58 system for $40.

I dug into the $20 T3500. it has no hdd so no OS. Clean as a whistle though. No dust bunnies at all. It had a W3520, I stuck my dirt cheap W3570 unlocked Xeon in it, It came with 12 GB DDR3 1066(3x4GB) which is perfect for this. The cooler I put together for Manguptas 50*C. weather issue will fit with the HDD tray closed. But finding 1.8A 12V, and the blocked  mounting screw issue had me just hang a fan on the original cooler like every body else does. Of course you guys know me it's going to be a bigger fan with a couple other tricks thrown in. I dug around and found a 92mmx32mm .6A, Delta fan with Thermal Sensor Control. 9 blades instead of the usual 7. No need to splice into PWM. It speeds up when the air temperture passing through it rises. I made some music wire "sprongs" to hold it in place. I had to trim the corners of the fan to clear the screw heads, but they weren't completetly covered like the 92x38mm Mangupta fan. Dell p/n C8563 Delta# EFC9012BF
I couldn't find the specs for that exact model, but another one the same size and power is 95cfm.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 4, 2019)

Just thought I would mention that the HP Z400 is compatible with SetFSB.  Still haven't got an unlocked CPU for my GF's PC...but playing around with SetFSB allowed a mild overclock on her W3565...stock all core turbo is 3.33GHz (133x25), I got it to 3.425GHz 137x25...anything past that would lock the system up.


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## BouziGolouM (Jan 4, 2019)

Out of topic, Aaron, is 3.86 your max with t3500? Just wondering as I was able to push mine a little bit further


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 4, 2019)

BouziGolouM said:


> Out of topic, Aaron, is 3.86 your max with t3500? Just wondering as I was able to push mine a little bit further



I believe I am only stuck at 3.86GHz because I am using an older 45nm Xeon, the W3680 and W3690 are unlocked too, but 32nm...and as it goes, tend to overclock a bit further with the stock voltage.  I am under the assumption that most any W3680 or W3690 will do at least 4GHz at stock voltage, maybe even 4.1+GHz if you're lucky with the silicone lottery.  Basically, I bought my W3570 just to test out the overclock capability, with the eventual plan to get a W3680, but just haven't got there yet...too many other expenses like our TV breaking right before Christmas, among other things.

Also...I can push this W3570 to 4GHz, but...I get the odd random crash...like once every couple days...and 3.86GHz is rock solid and haven't had a single crash ever.


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## BouziGolouM (Jan 4, 2019)

It's odd, I have both W3570 and W3690 and my 3570 was able to hit 4.1 no crash on the dell board and the 3690 only 4.0 on the same board. 
Didnt try my W3570 on an aftermarket board but I know I can achieve 4.7-4.8 on my sabertooth... 
Seems odd because I thought I'd be able to reach at least the same OC with my t3500/3690. 
Though, just a heads UP on an aftermarket board, those chip are just beast, Im able to bench as much as a stock 6700K wich is to me, phenomenal.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 4, 2019)

BouziGolouM said:


> It's odd, I have both W3570 and W3690 and my 3570 was able to hit 4.1 no crash on the dell board and the 3690 only 4.0 on the same board.
> Didnt try my W3570 on an aftermarket board but I know I can achieve 4.7-4.8 on my sabertooth...
> Seems odd because I thought I'd be able to reach at least the same OC with my t3500/3690.
> Though, just a heads UP on an aftermarket board, those chip are just beast, Im able to bench as much as a stock 6700K wich is to me, phenomenal.


I've been keeping my eye open locally for a better X58 board but I am not spending what some people feel they are worth...if I happen across a deal though...


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## BouziGolouM (Jan 4, 2019)

Yeah I was like you, if you're lucky they can be found for dirt cheap but wasn't lucky enough, I paid the price but the extra features are quite good honestly.
 I really wanted to mess with OC and for real, that chip is a pure monster, the dell OC is good, but when pushed it's just amazing, aroud multi core perf of a stock 6700k with a lower sing perf.
The thing I really wanted was an EVGA SR-2 just to mess with but hell, those are quit expansive.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 5, 2019)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Just thought I would mention that the HP Z400 is compatible with SetFSB.  Still haven't got an unlocked CPU for my GF's PC...but playing around with SetFSB allowed a mild overclock on her W3565...stock all core turbo is 3.33GHz (133x25), I got it to 3.425GHz 137x25...anything past that would lock the system up.



Some times SetFSB locks up because the SATA bus goes out of spec. A PCIe SATA card can fix that (if that's what's happening. )I've been thrashing on the Optiplex POS project. I took it to OCN LGA775 Club. I'll bring it back here if I can get a Core2Extreme to run on it. GTX1050TI and 130 W Pentium D heatsink so far.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 5, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> Some times SetFSB locks up because the SATA bus goes out of spec. A PCIe SATA card can fix that (if that's what's happening. )I've been thrashing on the Optiplex POS project. I took it to OCN LGA775 Club. I'll bring it back here if I can get a Core2Extreme to run on it. GTX1050TI and 130 W Pentium D heatsink so far.



I was curious if it might be the SATA bus...I think I might just do a Windows install to a USB stick and see if it goes any farther...if it does, I'll grab a PCIe controller for like $7 on eBay.  The Z400 will eventually get my W3570 when I upgrade my T3500 to W3680.  But it's fun to play with SetFSB for now.  And also curious about those POS systems you've acquired...I'll slide over to OCN.

Also...due to ATX compatibility and now SerFSB capability...I would say T3500 should only be recommended over Z400 if price is significantly cheaper.  Well...I guess there is still the issue of the proprietary 24-pin, but the pinout for that is well documented.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 5, 2019)

jbkelly80 said:


> I got the T3500 in the Phanteks P400TG. Tight fit.  Need help with the Dell front connections.   How can I get the MB to work with the new case?  It boots up.  Works like normal.  Would just like to use the power button and usb ports on new case.


 Aaaron do you have any advice for jbkelly80? You're the ATX guy here. Also when mentioning the Z400 don't forget the early MBs with 4 RAM slots that should be avoided.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 5, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> Aaaron do you have any advice for jbkelly80? You're the ATX guy here. Also when mentioning the Z400 don't forget the early MBs with 4 RAM slots that should be avoided.


I missed that post but can certainly help here...the Z400 is in a Deepcool Tesseract with the power button and the USB 2.0 front panel hooked up.  I'll have to pop open the side panel to have a look since it has been awhile since I built it...but I will at some point today.

Edit - missed it was referring to T3500...my T3500 hasn't had the front panel hooked up.  I did pinout the header on the motherboard...and found USB and power switch...but I lost that pin out diagram I made...and honestly I probably won't bother to do the pin out again unless I end up pulling my rig apart for some unforeseen reason.  I've just been using the rocker switch on the PSU.

Also...something strange I found with T3500 board...using CM Storm Spawn has a weird issue...when at the post prompt of press F1...pressing F1 does nothing...I have to hit F2 to enter BIOS, then reboot, and then F1 works...thought it was just how the motherboard behaved until I recently swapped mice for a Corsair Katar...and now F1 works as it should on first boot...strange, eh? Lol


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## Retrorockit (Jan 5, 2019)

The best computer advice i can give anyone is don't ever buy an espresso machine! I now own a Mac Pro. FBDIMMs and all. LGA771 the hard way!
It looks like 150W CPU, 1333fsb, but 65nm quads only. Looks like my E520 on steroids. Come to Poppa!

Ordered a pair of 6 pipe heatsinks for a later Macpro. $20 +7. The damned thing is built like a puzzle. They went to socket head screws on the tall heatsinks. Who the hell has an 8" long 3mm Allen wrench.
Well actually I do. A trip to the storage locker but yeah this things coming a part.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 5, 2019)

Always wanted an older Mac Pro...Where'd you put the pics?


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## Retrorockit (Jan 6, 2019)

I didn't post pics. yet. Just finished making the 130W  heatsink for the POS. More photos to take.  You mean pics. for the  POS at OCN? I got sidetracked by researching the Mac Pro.
My big question for LGA771 is will the CPUswap work the other way? Electrically the sticker should convert LGA 775 to LGA771 also. One of the BIOS mods just swithces Platform ID#11 to ID#44.
The CPUID numbers are the same for similar Xeons. X5365 is a 3Ghz 1333 65nm CPU, so is a QX6850 both have CPUID# 06FBh. So maybeeee 2x unlocked CPUs on LGA771? I wanted to try QX9650 on a T7400 but couldn't get one. QX6800 would pinmod to 3.66GHz even if it isn't TS unlocked. It won't be much of a computer no matter what you do. Might as well have some fun.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 6, 2019)

Funny enough...I've also been curious about 775 to 771 mod...I actually have a board to try it with but no longer have any 775 CPU...my concern is FB-DIMM...please share your results as it's something I've thought about since first doing the popular 771 to 775 stuff.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 6, 2019)

FBDIMMs first. Great bandwidth for the era. Each module has it's own memory controller. So each module basically opens up another channel. One is the master but throughput works that way. Great for server duty. But the overhead of all the controllers adds huge latency, so for gaming it's actually lousy. This was the Achilles heel of Skulltrail. 3 modules/channel was the sweet spot I think. Also very power hungry needing heatsinks/fans on the RAM and added power connectors on the MB. I was trying for a T7400 Skulltrail clone. Pinmodded X5470s for dual 4GHz system. Or dual QX9650 if the 771 mod worked. Since it probably wouldn't go much past 4GHz anyway no big deal if it didn't work. But I couldn't get a T7400 and one Xeon is in my Opti 380, and 1 QX9650 is in an XPS420 and the other in a T3400. The Mac Pro with 2- QX6850 and a TS Overclock would be such a freak at CPUZ! If you can just disguise the QX6850 as an X5365.

I've got the POS fitted up and took some photos I have afew up at OCN. No capyion tool. kind of random order.. 92x38mm 115cfm naked fan fits. 6 heatpipe Optiplex 745 Pentium D cooler fitted to MTG plate. Opti 745 DT  BTX cooler shroud trimmed to cover fan and cooler completely. Looks OEM. GPU riser test fitted with ZotacGTX 1050Ti, and MSI GTX 1060 3GB OCV1.  I have one dead PSU. I guess I'll look into some airflow modding there.
Edit- No good airflow mod on the PSU, so I stuck an Antec expansion slot blower in the emty PCI slot above the GPU.
 I came across something on SetFSB crashes. ZDnet made a Mac FSB tool. They found that ECC RAM could correct errors caused by bus speed changes and allow higher overclocks. Also different brands of RAM behaved differently. It seems the RAM crashes are due to the change in speed, but not the speed itself. Small changes and ECC RAM is what worked foro them.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 7, 2019)

A little more on the Mac Pro 1.1 idea. I did find some Core 2 Duo running single CPU on a Mac Pro at Geekbench, and Xeon BSEL tapemod, and VID mods are confirmed. So there is quite a bit of common ground there.  Somebody has LGA775 CPU running on LGA771.
AHA the C2D that were running were both 45nm not the 65nm it's supposed to run! E8600 and E7400. Mac 3.1 BIOS perhaps?
In the Mac Pro 2.1 which seems to be 65nm also there is this overclocked Q9450. ASFAIK 2.1 is just a BIOS flash?
http://browser.geekbench.com/geekbench2/2526236

The good news is above. The bad news is Geekbench is also showing some AMD, and i7 CPUs running in the Mac Pro 2.1 so now IDK what any of this means? Relistically if it was possible to run 2x LGA775 CPUs together some IT guys would have done it long ago considering the money that could have been saved doing that. Of course maybe things have been learned since then. Maybe Mac left something open that Intel didn't. So there's no reason not to try it anyway. 
I had fun spoofing Geekbench with my E520 TS overclock. It didn't recognize the OC and charted the result for 3.73GHz as 2.93GHz. They had to extend the top of the chart to fit the score on the graph.


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## BouziGolouM (Jan 8, 2019)

Im planning to get a pair of XEON X56** but im thorned between the 130W and the 95W version,  what's the real difference between the two variant, is there one that OC better than the other one?


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## unclewebb (Jan 8, 2019)

The 95W version will start to power limit throttle and slow down sooner.  It will reduce the amount of Turbo Boost  before the 130W version does.  In terms of CPU quality, there is probably not a lot of difference.  Intel is famous for creating new CPU boxes.  Not a lot of difference between the actual CPUs inside.


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## BouziGolouM (Jan 8, 2019)

thanks you, really appreciate all the time you put @unclewebb and @Retrorockit really appreciate all the help/explanation you guys did put here... Also shoutout to everyone else that their name don't come to my mind.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 10, 2019)

I found a nice CPU cooler that's as close to a bolt in as you're going to get with a Dell workstation.
The Dynatron G17 8 heatpie LGA1366 cooler.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dynatron...QEAj5YBMZ3b_ZWkQAkf8qdEKiKeQv5BRoCjzwQAvD_BwE
The fan is a waste of time. .2A. or something like that. But a direct contact 8 pipe 92mm cooler is pretty nice. Of course the Dell hollow bolt mounting takes some adapting. But actually it's very simple. Remove the Dell bolts and springs from the stock cooler by snipping the speed nuts. Remove the bolts from the new cooler. Add a 3/16" I.D. x 1/16" thick nylon washer (8) on each side of the new cooler mounting arms. Install the Dell bolts and springs with the C clips you removed fron the new cooler. This adds .030"-.040" more tension to the Dell springs. If that bothers you then use a metal washer on the top side instead of nylon. I of course attached the biggest fan I could find a 1.6A. 130 CFM 92x38mm Nidec Beta V. On a 2 CPU machine you'l need a thinner fan.


This is on a T5500 MB The 38mm fan exceeds the footprint and blocks the riser socket. But you can see the dell hardware with the Nylon spacers.
The 2nd and 3rd photo is the same but it shows the "Sprongs" I made to hold the fan on. A piece of wire bent 180* to hook into the fins, and the other end folded past 90* to make a prong to hold the fan in place.
The last 2 photos show it in an unmodified ( Imagine THAT!) T3500. The wires were moved from under the tray to clear the fan. But the tray closes w/o hitting. I will glue a piece of plastic foam under the tray to keep it that way. That's one of the thermal controlled fans that doesn't need a PWM signal to run. Just 12V. and that's it. They don't throttle down as much though.










That kind of a ratty looking fan. I have a nicer one and a chrome grille for it. PWM too. I'll put that on and get a better photo up tomorrow.
I'm ordering a Silverstone PWM fan splitter with 4.5A power available. Almost enough for what I have in mind.

I've ordered a couple of GTX1060 6GB GPUs with2 fans. This will give me a reason to stop playing with Optiplexes and get some of my (4) mid towers running.
I had heard that DX12 didn't support SLI, and that GTX1060 didn't either. Guess what! DX12 supports MDA which I guess stands for Multiple Diplay Adaptors. It send GPU work to whatever threads are available on the PCI bus. Doesn't matter what brand of cards and no crossover cables needed. Ashes of the Singularity is it so far.
https://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/2326-amd-nvidia-sli-directx-12-benchmark-explicit-multi-gpu.


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 11, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> I found a nice CPU cooler that's as close to a bolt in as you're going to get with a Dell workstation.
> The Dynatron G17 8 heatpie LGA1366 cooler.


Nice effort this!


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 11, 2019)

Small feat but managed to set my W3570 that has typically been clocked 3.866GHz on all cores as any more was at the cost of stability...to 3.866GHz 4 core load and 4GHz 2 core load...and it's stable.  Still wanting that W3680 but it's just not necessity at this point...I really only play Quake Champions and my current setup is good for 100+ fps minimums, so yeah.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 12, 2019)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Small feat but managed to set my W3570 that has typically been clocked 3.866GHz on all cores as any more was at the cost of stability...to 3.866GHz 4 core load and 4GHz 2 core load...and it's stable.  Still wanting that W3680 but it's just not necessity at this point...I really only play Quake Champions and my current setup is good for 100+ fps minimums, so yeah.


Did you try any significant cooling upgrades? We don't have any reports yet on whether that moves the goal posts for us or not. Everybody just wants to stick a fan on the stock cooler and quit there. I guess that's a question for me to answer. Waitng on my GPUs to arrive. The 45nm LGA775s would go slightly past 4GHz. I don't see why the Nehalem should be slower. But I've had people ask at Tomshardware how to build a $100 gaming rig. There's the answer!

Something I used to do for stability testing on my QX6800 was to run 3 threads of Prime 95 instead of 4. This put the P95 workload into a more realistic realm w/o dropping down to 2 cores which is equally unrealistic. May be turn off HT. I mean if you're running 8x threads of small FFTs that's going to limit you also. 4.15Ghz is a normal OC on a QX9650 T3400. That with triple channel memory would be pretty sweet.
 Could you run that at userbenchmark.com so we can see what the CPU score looks like? The OC QX9650 score 57%, and the OC W3680 goes 83%. it would be interesting to see where the $20 Nehalem ends up.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 12, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> Did you try any significant cooling upgrades? We don't have any reports yet on whether that moves the goal posts for us or not. Everybody just wants to stick a fan on the stock cooler and quit there. I guess that's a question for me to answer. Waitng on my GPUs to arrive. The 45nm LGA775s would go slightly past 4GHz. I don't see why the Nehalem should be slower. But I've had people ask at Tomshardware how to build a $100 gaming rig. There's the answer!
> 
> Something I used to do for stability testing on my QX6800 was to run 3 threads of Prime 95 instead of 4. This put the P95 workload into a more realistic realm w/o dropping down to 2 cores which is equally unrealistic. May be turn off HT. I mean if you're running 8x threads of small FFTs that's going to limit you also. 4.15Ghz is a normal OC on a QX9650 T3400. That with triple channel memory would be pretty sweet.
> Could you run that at userbenchmark.com so we can see what the CPU score looks like? The OC QX9650 score 57%, and the OC W3680 goes 83%. it would be interesting to see where the $20 Nehalem ends up.



I do have an AIO liquid cooler on my CPU, and I have a small fan on the NB heatsink of the motherboard.  Also...I have 2 x Corsair radiator fans on the top exhaust of the case that push a ridiculous amount of air for a 25mm thick fan.  I think this W3570 just isn't the greatest one...I am sure there are ones that would be stable at 4GHz all cores...mine just isn't.  And not just in synthetics...I'll get crashes just doing what I do normally on my computer.  I am happy with it anyway...and still will get the W3680 eventually.  Also...still haven't tried messing with my gf's Z400+SetFSB without a SATA based OS, but still plan to.

Edit - ran userbenchmark, and keeping in mind I don't have true tripple channel due to only having 10GB RAM, and I don't overclock GPU, I scored 63% for gaming, 59% Desktop, 44% Workstation.

https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/13763674


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## Retrorockit (Jan 12, 2019)

I would say nice solid scores all around and a worthwhile step up from LGA775. The CPU single core, and 4 core scores are almost at 80%. You're scoring 96th % for that CPU so maybe I'm wrong. there might not be much left in it.
This page shows the difference TS makes.
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/SpeedTest/12630/IntelR-XeonR-CPU-----------W3570----320GHz
 If you click show 193 more the ones at 4.2GHz show up. I can't save that sub page here.


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## storm-chaser (Jan 12, 2019)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> Funny enough...I've also been curious about 775 to 771 mod...I actually have a board to try it with but no longer have any 775 CPU...my concern is FB-DIMM...please share your results as it's something I've thought about since first doing the popular 771 to 775 stuff.


I would recommend the quad core Xeon X5470 as a good candidate for the LGA 771 to 775 swap. This CPU runs stock at 3.3Ghz using a 10x multi on a 333mhz FSB. That means, with a 400mhz FSB you can easily hit 4.0Ghz right out of the gate. That's as fast as I wanted to go, but it would be possible to push it further with the right motheboard.


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## BouziGolouM (Jan 12, 2019)

Retrorockit really neet fan hack.
Aaron_Henderson I can try to play with my W3570 soon to try to hit an high oc, got my W3690 stable at 4.7 so far, but not experienced enough to try trough the FSB yet and overvolting messing with too much voltages. I'm still wondering if blowing more air on the VRM to cool them will help... Is ocing through the fsb help in getting higher clocks. 
Does having 3 out of 6 ram slot helps in stability too? heard it could but haven't seen a difference really. Also feel like something is wrong since ive seen lots of 4.5ghz hitting over 1000 in cinebench and never been near that even at 4.7


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 12, 2019)

storm-chaser said:


> I would recommend the quad core Xeon X5470 as a good candidate for the LGA 771 to 775 swap. This CPU runs stock at 3.3Ghz using a 10x multi on a 333mhz FSB. That means, with a 400mhz FSB you can easily hit 4.0Ghz right out of the gate. That's as fast as I wanted to go, but it would be possible to push it further with the right motheboard.


We're talking about doing the reverse of that mod, converting 775 CPU for use on dual 771 socket board...771 to 775 is well documented and I've done the mod several times myself with CPU ranging from E5430 to X5460.


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## storm-chaser (Jan 12, 2019)

Interesting. Never thought of that but I guess it would be fairly straightforward. Going to have to do some research on this one!


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 12, 2019)

BouziGolouM said:


> Aaron_Henderson I can try to play with my W3570 soon to try to hit an high oc, got my W3690 stable at 4.7 so far, but not experienced enough to try trough the FSB yet and overvolting messing with too much voltages. I'm still wondering if blowing more air on the VRM to cool them will help... Is ocing through the fsb help in getting higher clocks.
> Does having 3 out of 6 ram slot helps in stability too? heard it could but haven't seen a difference really. Also feel like something is wrong since ive seen lots of 4.5ghz hitting over 1000 in cinebench and never been near that even at 4.7



I honestly have zero experience overclocking 1366 outside of my two OEM based systems using Throttlestop and SetFSB for mild OC.  4.7GHz W3690 is pretty beastly though!


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## Retrorockit (Jan 13, 2019)

The W3570 and the W3680 have completely different memory controllers. The 3500 series will slow down with 6 slots populated, and the 3600 series won't. The i7s run at 1066, and so do some of the slower Xeons.
 In the locked BIOS computers that Throttlestop overclocking is mostly used for the chipsets that support 400 fsb-X38, and X48, don't support the Xeon swap. You could pinmod a QX9650 and get there, but they go 4.15GHz anyway. The T7400 supports 400fsb. the T5400 doesn't. Of course that according to Dell.
As  far as VRM cooling goes I have found that more power is available if you put heatsinks on the VRM MOSFETs. I gained .050V. on the E520 in my sig. Gained another .100V. moving the Delta fan off of the MB header to the PSU Molex  cables.
 I would love to see a userbenchmark run for a 4.7GHz TS overclock.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 13, 2019)

My W3570 let's my 5 x 2GB run at their rated 1333MHz speed.  Also curious what a userbenchmark might look like on that 4.7 GHz 6 core...what board are you using BouziGolouM?


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## Retrorockit (Jan 13, 2019)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> My W3570 let's my 5 x 2GB run at their rated 1333MHz speed.  Also curious what a userbenchmark might look like on that 4.7 GHz 6 core...what board are you using BouziGolouM?


 Maybe I'm repeating old info. Perhaps a BIOS update improved the RAM situation, or newer modules are fast enough.


BouziGolouM said:


> Retrorockit really neet fan hack."
> BouziGolouM- If you like that fan mod you'll love the one back on page 8/9


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## ManGupta (Jan 16, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> I found a nice CPU cooler that's as close to a bolt in as you're going to get with a Dell workstation.
> The Dynatron G17 8 heatpie LGA1366 cooler.
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dynatron...QEAj5YBMZ3b_ZWkQAkf8qdEKiKeQv5BRoCjzwQAvD_BwE
> The fan is a waste of time. .2A. or something like that. But a direct contact 8 pipe 92mm cooler is pretty nice. Of course the Dell hollow bolt mounting takes some adapting. But actually it's very simple. Remove the Dell bolts and springs from the stock cooler by snipping the speed nuts. Remove the bolts from the new cooler. Add a 3/16" I.D. x 1/16" thick nylon washer (8) on each side of the new cooler mounting arms. Install the Dell bolts and springs with the C clips you removed fron the new cooler. This adds .030"-.040" more tension to the Dell springs. If that bothers you then use a metal washer on the top side instead of nylon. I of course attached the biggest fan I could find a 1.6A. 130 CFM 92x38mm Nidec Beta V. On a 2 CPU machine you'l need a thinner fan.View attachment 114340View attachment 114340This is on a T5500 MB The 38mm fan exceeds the footprint and blocks the riser socket. But you can see the dell hardware with the Nylon spacers.
> ...



Nice Mods, Good Effort and good R&D ........... Well-done!


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## Retrorockit (Jan 16, 2019)

ManGupta said:


> Nice Mods, Good Effort and good R&D ........... Well-done!


  Just about everything we do here is R&D. Even stuff that doesn't work is helpful knowledge. I'm just glad that I don't have to do it all alone any more. I have as many questions as anyone else here. My hardware mods can be photographed, but lot's of people here buy CPUs, RAM, and motherboards and post their results too. So I'm grateful to everyone who participates here. Especially Unclewebb. Without Throttlestop the sport of OEM/workstation overclocking basically wouldn't exist. Who new cheap thrills could be a team sport?


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## BouziGolouM (Jan 20, 2019)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> My W3570 let's my 5 x 2GB run at their rated 1333MHz speed.  Also curious what a userbenchmark might look like on that 4.7 GHz 6 core...what board are you using BouziGolouM?


6 cores, between 4.5 and 4,7ghz, i get almost 1000 in cinebench, IPC wise, it's about the same as a newer i3 or first gen ryzen, and multicore perf is about the same as a stock 6700. I'm using an Asus Sabertooth x58 and just got a wonderful evga sr-2 that I'm gonna play with this weekend.
I've been able to boot at 4.8 but it wasnt stable enough to bench it, raised the VCORE to almost max (without using the Overvoltage jumper) and didn't had luck, I know I could get a lil bit higher by playing with the other voltages, but not there yet. I also wonder if I can reach an higher OC if I boot with only 3 sticks instead of 6 and I wonder if max OC is hinder by ECC ram.
Also wonder if I better cooling on the VRMs would help in reaching an higher clock, just don't have any idea how to as it already have a ceramic heatsink on it.
voltages are now sitting between 1.264 and 1.448  (oc'ed with an offset), didn't reached higher clocks with a set vcore. Still happy with that though.

I wonder how well I can oc my sr-2 though, only have 1 dual qpi link cpu at the moment, so wouldn't be able to OC dual cpu yet but ill comeback with the result and pretty sure I can hit something near the 2000 mark on cine with that board.

@Retrorockit found the mod you're talking about, yeah, that's a nice one, found a way back to put an evo 212 myself a couple years ago, but the way i did it wasn't as neat as you nor the page 8 mod.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 20, 2019)

I found another victim for a TS overclock. I rescued an XPS410 from a scrap pile at a computer shop that was downsizing. It's the same as the E520 in my sig. but a Mid Tower version. The capcitors look perfect. I have much better cooling otions than I had when I went 4GHz with a QX6800. Including a BTX Peltier setup. Maybe I can push one back up the charts at CPUZ again. 65nm CPU 266fsb and BTX, nothing but the best. It was free, I gave him $10 anyway.
My comment on VRM cooling was related to the Dells most of us are palying with here. They have no VRM cooling at all (but good airflow there) and if you add some hetasinks they gain quite a bit. But a high end aftermarket boards will already have cooling there.
RAM settings don't come into play much with multiplier overclocking, they just run the same as before. Many  feel you get better benchmarks at lower clock speeds with BCLK overclocking, but the speed is harder to come by. I started a separate thread for it because it gets too political,and the info. for this method gets lost in the other discussions.
 On an unlocked 2 CPU board i'd like to see what a pair of X5687 32nm quads could do.


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## BouziGolouM (Jan 20, 2019)

@Retrorockit I know aftermarket board have better vrm cooling and like you said better vrm cooling=less voltage needed, was just wondering how far this can be applied to a dell board or hp board for an example. Taking my t3500, wondering if I could squeeze +1 or +2 on the multi, just for fun...
Also, as not familiar with OCing with FSB, would I have any gains in OCing through the fsb over just using the multiplier?
Have not tried through fsb yet, will, but wanted to heard maybe someone's experience on this.
Also for ram, the only thing i've heard is that at high oc, it was better just populating 3 out of the 6 dimms can't say.
I might try this with an old tower I got, but does anyone had chance to test it on AMD cpu yet?

@Retrorockit you mentionned you'd like to see what a pair of quad xeon would do, In a week or two I should have 2 6 cores running on an unlocked 2 cpu board.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Jan 20, 2019)

BouziGolouM said:


> 6 cores, between 4.5 and 4,7ghz, i get almost 1000 in cinebench, IPC wise, it's about the same as a newer i3 or first gen ryzen, and multicore perf is about the same as a stock 6700. I'm using an Asus Sabertooth x58 and just got a wonderful evga sr-2 that I'm gonna play with this weekend.
> I've been able to boot at 4.8 but it wasnt stable enough to bench it, raised the VCORE to almost max (without using the Overvoltage jumper) and didn't had luck, I know I could get a lil bit higher by playing with the other voltages, but not there yet. I also wonder if I can reach an higher OC if I boot with only 3 sticks instead of 6 and I wonder if max OC is hinder by ECC ram.
> Also wonder if I better cooling on the VRMs would help in reaching an higher clock, just don't have any idea how to as it already have a ceramic heatsink on it.
> voltages are now sitting between 1.264 and 1.448  (oc'ed with an offset), didn't reached higher clocks with a set vcore. Still happy with that though.
> ...



Dang...lucky dog you getting a hold of the SR-2...I'm not jealous lol


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 20, 2019)

I've had excellent results adding cooling to Dell boards. I would advise adding small heatsinks to each VRM MOSFET. A big metal heat sink will expand and contract and unless you can make a spring mount and flexible interface like the factories do, or they may not stay put. On the T3500/5500 they willl hit components betweem the MOSFETs anyway. The ones I like best are the copper pin fin sinks from Enzotech. Alphacool may offer the same thing. But 10 in a packege isn't enough to do a high powered MB. They can be bent like wires to clear things. I don't trust the ones with tiny fins close together. Air is sticky and forms  a boundary layer that doesn't move in small spaces. If you have a fan blowing right onto them they'r probably OK and better than nothing. I have been known to buy coppper chipset coolers and cut them down to get what I need. But copper is much harder to work with than aluminum. The copper sinks are heavy and will fall off over time if you use the 2 sided tape they come with. There is a permanent 2 part thermal epoxy from Arctic. Some people mix it with TIM to make it removable. Some techs rely on Superglue due to it's very thin interface. I haven't tried that myself. It's probably next on my list. The actual result I got was more Voltage available allowing a higher overclock. The lower Voltage required was from moving the Delta fan off of the MB header.
BCLK vs multiplier overclocking is not an either/or question as many BCLK people seem to believe. I would do a multiplier overclock then drop a multipler and start bumping the fsb up. The worst case scenario for this was the 65nm C2X chips which would only move 1 whole 266, or 333 fsb multipler at a time. I would go to Overclock.net X58 Xeon Club for fsb overclocking. Call it BCLK there or you'll get flamed, (fsb is sooo LGA775 you know). I have nothing against the technique, but I don't want this thread to end up with 1,000 pages of RAM timings and QPI Voltages etc. so that TS info. can't be found. Also I know absolutely nothing about it so I can't help you anyway. I've only overclocked locked BIOS Dells which is what led to this forum. Several of us here post in both forums.
If you post that you got 4.7GHz on a multiplier overclock all hell will break loose over there. I hope to see it! But those guys really do know their stuff. My guess is you will lose some clock speed but gain performance in some of the benchmarks. That's the theory anyway.


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## DarthBubba (Feb 1, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> There is a permanent 2 part thermal epoxy from Arctic. Some people mix it with TIM to make it removable. Some techs rely on Superglue due to it's very thin interface.



Wakefield makes a thermal epoxy with a 7.93 thermal conductivity that may be better than Arctic's - I don't know for sure because Arctic is not big on telling their thermal conductivity rating.  Wakefield's IS electrically conductive (where Arctic's is not supposed to be) so care is required.

Anyway, Retro, can you please tell us where you attached the fan wires on the Dynatron G17?






It just disappears behind the back chassis wall.

Thanks,

-DB


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## Retrorockit (Feb 1, 2019)

I didn't connect it because I may use another fan. But with the blue thermistor that's visible  sticking out of the motor it doesn't matter on that fan. Just any 12V. source you like. It's not a PWM fan. It responds to the temperature of the air coming off of the cooler. The Molex 4 pin sticking up in the air would be as good a place as any. If I use a PWM fan I just power it the same way and use a splitter off fo the original CPU/ PWM wire for a signal. I've run 2 motor GFB series 3.4A. fan s that way before. But I definitely wouldn't run the 1.6A. fan off of the MB header that had a .9A. fan
It's called Thermal Speed Control.


----------



## DarthBubba (Feb 9, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> I didn't connect it because I may use another fan. But with the blue thermistor that's visible  sticking out of the motor it doesn't matter on that fan. Just any 12V. source you like. It's not a PWM fan. It responds to the temperature of the air coming off of the cooler. The Molex 4 pin sticking up in the air would be as good a place as any. If I use a PWM fan I just power it the same way and use a splitter off fo the original CPU/ PWM wire for a signal. I've run 2 motor GFB series 3.4A. fan s that way before. But I definitely wouldn't run the 1.6A. fan off of the MB header that had a .9A. fan
> It's called Thermal Speed Control.



What was the temperature drop with the G17 cooler in your T3500, and with which fan (if any) pulling air through the fins?

Also, from reading your posts you seem to favor high amperage fans.  Am I misreading or is there an advantage to high amperage fans?

On both of my T3500s simply placing a junk-box-special 80mm fan up against the "exhaust" side of the standard CPU heatsink dropped the CPU temp from 80+ degC to upper 60s degC while running Prime95.  Dead stock the T3500 CPU (W3530 - no OC) ramped up to 83 or 84degC during Prime95, but no further.  The CPU didn't seem to be throttling per CPU-Z.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 9, 2019)

I haven't run my T3500 yet. I'm busy with 1500W. E Bike projects right now. The high amperage fan thing is because I got into Throttlestop overclocking with Dell BTX computers. They came with 1.3A. to 1.6A Delta fans. The 3.4A 2 motor GFB 120x50mm was what fit in the BTX fan housing. The 1.8A. 150x50mm replaced the whole fan and housing and ran off of the MB header so it was a no brainer. 275cfm and quiet too. I have this stuff sitting around so when I neeed a fan I grab one. Mangupta is trying to cool his sytem with 100*F. air. So he needs lot's of it.1.3A. should help. These are all industrial fans that Dell has used for years. The aftermarket stuff looks like toys to me. The thing is they spend almost all of their time at 30-40% speed. Did I mention they're cheap?
Dell seems to wait until the CPU gets pretty hot before the fan speeds up much. Did you try HWinfo64 or some other fan control utility to get the RPMs up sooner? The Dell fan is powerful enough. If you're not complaining about the niose you haven't heard it at full speed yet.


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## DarthBubba (Feb 13, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> I haven't run my T3500 yet. I'm busy with 1500W. E Bike projects right now.



You're wasting time on BICYCLES when there's so much more important stuff to waste your time on?!?!  

<much deleted>



Retrorockit said:


> Dell seems to wait until the CPU gets pretty hot before the fan speeds up much. Did you try HWinfo64 or some other fan control utility to get the RPMs up sooner? The Dell fan is powerful enough. If you're not complaining about the niose you haven't heard it at full speed yet.



I've had the fans ramp up, but not to the noise levels you and others have reported.  Maybe when the summer arrives and the ambient temp goes up.

BTW, can you tell me the model number of the fan in the earlier picture - the small numbers under the "TA350DC"?  Or at least tell me the size of the fin stack on the exhaust side?  I've ordered a Dynatron G17 and no one in the order chain seems to be able to tell me the dimensions.

Also, any chance that you could grab your multimeter and find out the cold temperature resistance of the thermistor on that fan?  I may have to jerry-rig my own temp-control fan.

Thanks,

-DB


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## Retrorockit (Feb 14, 2019)

The Dynatron provides a  92x25mm fan. The heatsink is 93mmx70mm.  M35105-57 is the fan in the photos.
Here's the data sheet for the various Nidec Widebody fans.
https://datasheet.octopart.com/M34789-33-Nidec-datasheet-643872.pdf
Thermistor=4.04 Ohms about 72*F.
This was an OEM Dell fan in the older pre BTX Dimensions with the higher powered Pentium 4/D CPUs. It was shrouded to the CPU heatpipe cooler and pulled air out of the sytem.


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## SoNic67 (Feb 15, 2019)

I am getting those errors:

MSVCR120.dll was not found
mfc12u.dll was not found

I have the C++ redistributable 2008 (x64), 2010 (x64), 2013 (x64), 2017 (x64).
What am I missing?


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## ManGupta (Feb 15, 2019)

SoNic67 said:


> I am getting those errors:
> 
> MSVCR120.dll was not found
> mfc12u.dll was not found
> ...



Not very sure, but I think Windows Updates may fix that.


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## SoNic67 (Feb 15, 2019)

Just checked... nothing there, just Antivirus definitions.

LE: Go the 32 bit versions of C++ redistrib too, from here:
https://www.itechtics.com/microsoft...ownload-links/#Visual_C_Direct_Download_Links
That fixed it.


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## DarthBubba (Feb 16, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> The Dynatron provides a  92x25mm fan. The heatsink is 93mmx70mm.  M35105-57 is the fan in the photos.



It's a lot easier to find the fan with that number - looking for Nidec TA350DC on Ebay returns too many hits, most of which are not thermally controlled.  I've ordered two, one for each T3500 I have here.



Retrorockit said:


> Thermistor=4.04 Ohms about 72*F.



As it turns out the thermistor may be used differently than I thought.  Peeling back the label on one of the fans and peeking at the additional circuitry should be enlightening.

Thanks for the reply and info.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 16, 2019)

The thermistor could be remotely cabled to be used on the air oulet to power a fan on the inlet side, or elsewhere.


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## DarthBubba (Feb 18, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> The thermistor could be remotely cabled to be used on the air oulet to power a fan on the inlet side, or elsewhere.



We sort of have an equivalent to that with the case front intake fan being controlled by the CPU temp sensor, don't we?  Presuming that the CPU cooler's "air duct" formed by the RAM duct and HDD tray are still present.

Anyway, I'm seriously tempted to try and cool the CPU with an extra AIO liquid cooler I have on hand.  There's a 1366 backplate for it, but getting the 120mm radiator to exhale to the outside of the case looks problematic without resorting to some irreversible metal cutting.


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## DarthBubba (Feb 20, 2019)

Well, lotsa goodies arrived today via USPS and the Big Brown Truck.  The following information is a bit overly detailed to make searching Ebay for the parts easier.

The Dynatron G17 CPU cooler (see message #605) arrived with its own fan and a fan mount already attached to the exhaust side of the fin stack.  It appeared to be NIB from the seller.  The Nidec Beta V TA350DC Model M35105-57 thermally controlled fan (mine is actually a -58) also in message #605 above has the same frame size (90mm) as the G17's fan (except for the 38mm thickness of the blade tunnel), but with slightly smaller mounting holes in the corners.  A bit of careful drill work should open up the mounting holes such that the M35105-58 can snap on to the G17 directly.   The M35105-58 draws 1.8 AMPS @ 12VDC so powering it from a Molex connector is warranted.

The other thermally controlled fan that arrived is a Nidec Beta V TA300DC Model M33406-16G6, which is 80mm square and 25mm thick.  It fits the exhaust side of the stock T3500 CPU cooler pretty exactly.  I'll need to jerry-rig a way to attach it to the cooler with a bit of vibration isolation between the cooler and the fan as it "sings" when held against the cooler's fins directly.  In informal testing the W3530 CPU in my T3500 stayed in the mid-to-upper 60*C range during a Prime95 run.  The fan audibly slowed as the CPU temp dropped from 82*C.  I tried running it from 5VDC and 7VDC but it wouldn't spin up.


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## SoNic67 (Feb 20, 2019)

DarthBubba said:


> It fits the exhaust side of the stock T3500 CPU cooler pretty exactly.


Do you OC the T3500? Why the fan?


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 20, 2019)

SoNic67 said:


> Do you OC the T3500? Why the fan?


ThrottleStop can be used to set CPU's to their maximum performance in non-overclocking systems. When doing this, it's important to keep the CPU cool and mounting a fan to the stock heatsink is an easy way to do so.


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## SoNic67 (Feb 20, 2019)

That makes sense now. Thanks.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 20, 2019)

The T3500 with one of the unlocked Xeons is a perfect candidate for Throttlestop overclocking. But you get the automatic overclock settings that Intel allows. So far most people are satisfied with a smalll fan on the stock cooler. It's unknown at this point if added cooling will allow a higher overclock. 4.1 to 4.3Ghz is typical so far. Unfortunately none of the 2 CPU Xeons are unlocked (except some LGA771).


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## DarthBubba (Feb 20, 2019)

SoNic67 said:


> Do you OC the T3500?



Not yet    I'm waiting for a reasonably priced W3680 to present itself.



SoNic67 said:


> Why the fan?



Silicon devices last longer when kept cool; however, my vacuum tube stereo equipment runs better when hot (within limits).  

But seriously, I'm not gonna let the CPU stay near its TDP for extended periods of time.  There are derating tables for solid state electronics based on decades of unexpected failures that provide guidance here.  Not that anyone runs Prime95 for 24 hours straight, but there are some games and video processing tasks (in my case) that can stress the system for prolonged periods.  I don't want my video rendering times to lengthen because the CPU is protecting itself via throttling.



lexluthermiester said:


> ThrottleStop can be used to set CPU's to their maximum performance in non-overclocking systems. When doing this, it's important to keep the CPU cool and mounting a fan to the stock heatsink is an easy way to do so.



What he said  .


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 20, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> The T3500 with one of the unlocked Xeons is a perfect candidate for Throttlestop overclocking.


This too, but there is only one 6-core(edit) unlocked Xeon(W3690) and one unlocked i7(990X) compatible with the T3500/T5500/T7500 series of workstations. If you can get one, they're bad ass!


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## Retrorockit (Feb 20, 2019)

There are 4 unlocked Xeons and each one has a somewhat equivalent i7 series. W3570,W3580 are dirt cheap ($20) 4C/8T 45nm  Nehalem Xeons or i7 965 Extreme and i7 975 Extreme, and W3680,W3690 are the 32nm 6C/!2T Xeons and are about $80. The i7 980X,i7 990X are their equivalents. The Xeons usually support faster memory speeds. 1333 vs. 1066. But with the memory controller on the CPU support can vary somewhat.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 21, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> There are 4 unlocked Xeons and each one has a somewhat equivalent i7 series. W3570,W3580 are dirt cheap ($20) 4C/8T 45nm  Nehalem Xeons or i7 965 Extreme and i7 975 Extreme, and W3680,W3690 are the 32nm 6C/!2T Xeons and are about $80. The i7 980X,i7 990X are their equivalents. The Xeons usually support faster memory speeds. 1333 vs. 1066. But with the memory controller on the CPU support can vary somewhat.


Sorry, I was referring exclusively to the 6core versions(corrected the post). Most people generally prefer them over the quads. May have missed it, were we able to confirm the W3680/i7-980X were unlocked?
EDIT; Found the specs on the 980X to confirm unlocked status.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 21, 2019)

Everyone forgets the Nehalem Xeons. But with 3 channel DDR3 support and hyperthreading probably the best bang for the buck in unlocked CPUs. It doesn't hurt to have one around in case you get a system with an older BIOS that won't boot the 6 cores.
 But the W3680 is the favorite for TS overclocking. No known adavntage to the pricier W3690 when overclocking.


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## unclewebb (Feb 21, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> were we able to confirm the W3680/i7-980X were unlocked?


The W3680 is definitely unlocked, multiplier and TDP / TDC.  This allows you to run full speed while fully loaded without any throttling.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/throttlestop-overclocking-desktop-pcs.235975/post-3799652

I paid about $80 U.S. this time last year and now they are down to ~$50 U.S. on EBay.  
No regrets.  Most CPUs depreciate that much the moment you walk out of the computer store.


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## Susquehannock (Feb 23, 2019)

_"Not that anyone runs Prime95 for 24 hours straight, "_ ..... I do, and more.  Small FFTs is only way my W3680 at 4.0ghz (max mine is stable) will go over 50-c with stock heatsink and 80mm fan. Would it overclock higher with a bigger cooler? Not likely.

[edit]


Retrorockit said:


> Everyone forgets the Nehalem Xeons. But with 3 channel DDR3 support and hyperthreading probably the best bang for the buck in unlocked CPUs. It doesn't hurt to have one around in case you get a system with an older BIOS that won't boot the 6 cores.
> But the W3680 is the favorite for TS overclocking. No known adavntage to the pricier W3690 when overclocking.


What Nehalem Xeon are unlocked?

Interesting to watch pricing. Got my W3680 for $35 and now they have risen to $50 again. Couple years ago X5687 were $80-90 and now sell for $35.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 23, 2019)

The BCLK overclockers are getting 4.4-4.5Ghz out of X58 systems. It remains to be seen what TS can do with extra cooling. But throttling probably isn't happeneing at 50*c. so you may be right.
The unlocked Nehalems are the W3570, W3580 there is no W3590 ASFAIK.
W3680 went from $35 to $80 and if they're down to $50 that's good news. It's still saving $150 on an unlocked X58 MB. Sometimes you can just spec. an unlocked CPU on a T3500 from one of the dealers for little or no extra cost.
Personally for gaming or benchmarking I don't care what speed 12 threads of Prime 95 runs at. I'll take 4.3Ghz on 6 threads any day. But for VMs or serious workstation use with ECC RAM that's a different story.
  The BCLK overclockers aren't interested in the unlocked CPUs. They get just as much out of the cheaper mid level 2 QPI Xeons. X5650.X5660,X5675 are popular. If you already own an unlocked X58 MB it makes sense.


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## Susquehannock (Feb 23, 2019)

Ahh, got it. Had me confused for a minute. Those are Bloomfield. And both basically the same thing at our end. The W3570 are inexpensive now. Wonder how they would perform at 4.0ghz (if they get there) in a gaming system compared to the W3680 given they have less  cores and smaller Cache.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 25, 2019)

If the game doesn't need the cores probably pretty similar. Yes the Nehalem/Bloomfield and Westmere/ Gulftown multi level naming "system" is pretty flaky.
BTW what CPU Voltage are you getting at 4GHz, and are you using TS or XTU for your overclock?


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## Aaron_Henderson (Feb 25, 2019)

Susquehannock said:


> Ahh, got it. Had me confused for a minute. Those are Bloomfield. And both basically the same thing at our end. The W3570 are inexpensive now. Wonder how they would perform at 4.0ghz (if they get there) in a gaming system compared to the W3680 given they have less  cores and smaller Cache.



I have a W3570 but it's only stable at 3.86GHz on all cores, though I set the 1/2/3 core turbo to 4GHz and it's fine.  I can run some gaming benchmarks if you'd like to compare, though I don't have many recent games.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 25, 2019)

FWIW the 45nm LGA775 Q9650 would routinely go 4.15 Ghz with TS in the Dell T3400
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/11680552


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## Susquehannock (Feb 27, 2019)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> I have a W3570 but it's only stable at 3.86GHz on all cores, though I set the 1/2/3 core turbo to 4GHz and it's fine.  I can run some gaming benchmarks if you'd like to compare, though I don't have many recent games.


Thanks but it's not that important. Was just curious since I am well aquainted with how the W3565 perform in these. The W3570 is interesting since it is inexpensive, unlocked, and allows 1333mhz RAM. Great option for those looking to upgrade.



Retrorockit said:


> If the game doesn't need the cores probably pretty similar. Yes the Nehalem/Bloomfield and Westmere/ Gulftown multi level naming "system" is pretty flaky.
> BTW what CPU Voltage are you getting at 4GHz, and are you using TS or XTU for your overclock?


Sure is. No wonder pricing on the W3680 has changed so much. Seems many didn't realize they were 32nm chips. And unlocked at that.

Both work equally well for me but find myself using XTU more often for the interface and graphs. HWmonitor shows max of 143.74 watts at full load.


----------



## Retrorockit (Feb 27, 2019)

The W3680/90 was a secret for a long time. I had to decide whether to publish it for this thread, or keep it under wraps. The thought of all the Dell T3500 going to the landfill   when they could be  converted to gaming rigs won out. The price doubled for a while right after I started this thread. Now it's back down to about where it was before. But the i7 Xtremes were always even more expensive, and X58 unlocked MB aren't cheap either. A T3500 ,W3570, 6GB system can be had for about $100. Add a GTX 1060 3GB with a 1080P monitor and it would be a pretty nice low buck gaming rig. Add in the fact that there's a clear upgrade path to 6C/12T 4.3Ghz 48GB 1440K system with ECC RAM if needed and it's not a bad place to start. Of course 12GB RAM and a GTX 1060 6GB would be better. But if rock bottom pricing is what you need I think these are hard to beat.


----------



## Susquehannock (Feb 27, 2019)

That is where all these were headed before my friend intercepted them - the recycling dumpster. Yes. I remember. You were the one who clued me in on the overclocking - in private messages. Think we both were on the leading edge somewhat. Back about 2.5 years ago when these boxes started coming my way there was precious little info on gaming with T3500. Everyone said you cannot fit a full sized graphics card, the 6-pin PCIe connector cannot provide more than 75 watts of power, they are not compatible with Westmeres, etc. Within a few weeks showing things to the contrary I was besieged with people asking questions. 

Even some of the larger retailers are getting into the T3500 gaming ring now. Noticed these at MicroCenter. One has 16gb RAM. Cannot think of any config that would allow it to run triple channel. And good chance they are using 1066mhz memory with those W3565. Otherwise the W3570 would be a nice cheap upgrade.


----------



## Retrorockit (Feb 27, 2019)

Yes you were the Dell workstation modder, and I was the Dell/TS overclocker. That and Unclewebb clarifying how to apply the settings on X58  got this thing going.


----------



## OEMOC (Mar 7, 2019)

I wanted to start off by thanking unclewebb, Susquehannok, and Retrorockit for your respective work that's culminated into tinkerers being able to breathe new life into cheap, generations old, hardware. I've read every page of discussion here and am pretty set on upgrading to an oem x58 based mobo/cpu given how dirt cheap such would be for me.

I've been looking for something to replace my overclocked fx-6100 (USBM = 54.4%) based rig. It's starting to show it's age when playing CPU demanding titles like Wreckfest and Beamng. Seeing a w3680 @4ghz getting around a 75% in userbench has me excited to upgrade. Since I already have a rig with a hyper 212, all I'll need is a mobo, w3680, and some TS elbow grease of which I should be able to do for under $70 all in. If I can stick to that budget the upgrade will be pretty much free after I sell my current mobo/cpu.

So I've done my homework on both the t3400 9kpnv, hp z400 (6 ram slot). However I'd rather deal with a non atx, and propertairy fan header, and having to turn my pc on with the ps3 switch of the t3400 over messing with power 24 pin out of the z400. I'm starting to lurk more OEM mobos mentioned here like Alienware, Studio 9000, and the Lenovo s20 in case there is some cheap gold to be found. I do have a few questions for you gurus, and I'd really appreciate any insight you can afford me:

*1)Are there any boards close to the price of a t3400 ($25-30) that would be more ATX friendly and not require 24 pin mods or fan header adapters?
2) How hard is to to mount an aftermarket cooler to a t3400 9kpnv like a hyper 212? 
3) I'd like to use my current ram. Are these OEM boards picky about the memory used? 
4) What's a cheap 1366 cpu that can be used on all OEM boards so I can flash a 6c compliant bios?
5) I know that newer intel chipset and AMD display drivers fixed the problems with using an rx 480-580 on t3400 motherboards. Is this true of all other OEM 1366 boards? *

I plan on keeping progress of my endeavours, and eventual success story here.


----------



## Retrorockit (Mar 7, 2019)

The T3400 is an LGA775 board and won't support the W3680 CPU. You need the X58 based T3500 to get into the 75-80% range.
 The Z400 is an ATX layout. You need to get the later version with 6 RAM slots to support the later CPUs, and there's a wiring mod needed on the 24 pin ATX connector. HP stayed with the 4 pin CPU plug, and added 2x 12V. wires to the 24 pin instead. Aaron Henderson in the Dell Workstation Owners Club is the guy for HP mods. Fujitsu, Siemens, Lenovo and others made LGA1366 workstation motherboards that may be ATX compliant. But you will be on your own with those as far as any proprietary issues.
 Dell uses low density RAM (x64), AMD high density (x128) RAM won't work.
The W3570 45nm 4C/8T is an unlocked early CPU and goes for about $20. Basically any 3500 or 5500 series Xeon will work on an early BIOS.
Dell CPU back plate is made onto the MB. Thermalright mounting hardware willl interface with the threads Dell uses. Post #584 has an aftermarket cooler mod that attaches easily. But generally nothing bolts on without some modding. Dell has 4 male threaded studs sticking up out of the MB.


----------



## Retrorockit (Mar 22, 2019)

I came across something that may be of interest to those who feel X58 is too retro.
The Dell T3610 LGA2011 system. It's not X79, but C602 chipset and overclocking ASFAIK is unknown. But there are plenty of unlocked X79 Xeons and with 4 channel DDR3 RAM it's a pretty potent system as is.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T3610/1177 
 These guys like it. But I can't confirm that all their CPU choices like the 150W or 8 core CPUs actually work in the Dell.
https://www.greenpcgamers.com/technology/awesome-precision-t3610-gaming-computer/ 
 Here are a couple unlocked X79 CPU threads.
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/xeons-with-an-open-multiplier.15983/ 
https://www.overclock.net/forum/8-i...king-x79-x99-beyond-x58-178.html#post27903282


----------



## BouziGolouM (Apr 7, 2019)

does anyone have the max multiplier list for each Xeon 56**?? can't seem to find the data.


----------



## ManGupta (Apr 7, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> I came across something that may be of interest to those who feel X58 is too retro.
> The Dell T3610 LGA2011 system. It's not X79, but C602 chipset and overclocking ASFAIK is unknown. But there are plenty of unlocked X79 Xeons and with 4 channel DDR3 RAM it's a pretty potent system as is.
> https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T3610/1177
> These guys like it. But I can't confirm that all their CPU choices like the 150W or 8 core CPUs actually work in the Dell.
> ...




As per Dell Support -

"The highest rated CPU that Dell sold with the T3610 was the E5-2650 v2 (2.6 GHz, L3 20 MB, 8-core, Turbo 3.4 GHz, 95 watt TDP) so it cannot be guaranteed that CPUs of a higher spec will work. "
It supports  DDR3 800/1066/1333/1600/1866 .

List of CPU that C602 supports are in this link but Dell have officially tested only upto E5-2650 V2.

http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-Intel_(chipsets)/C602.html


----------



## Retrorockit (Apr 9, 2019)

At userbenchmark.com the highest CPU scores are for the E5-1650 v2
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T3610/1177 
 I'm not real clear on this system. I think Dell sold it with RDIMM and dual CPU Xeons. But I may be confusing it with the T3600.
The single CPU Xeon is where you should be looking for an unlocked CPU to overclock. Might  not support RDIMM with that CPU.
I see T3600 running E5 1650 v.0 also.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T3600/1882 
 It looks like there may be a way forward here.


----------



## BouziGolouM (Apr 10, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> The single CPU Xeon is where you should be looking for an unlocked CPU to overclock. Might  not support RDIMM with that CPU.
> It looks like there may be a way forward here.



The only xeon that has a known unlocked multiplier is the E5 1860v2 and it's a pretty beast in itself. This can still compete with today's CPU


----------



## Retrorockit (Apr 10, 2019)

BouziGolouM said:


> The only xeon that has a known unlocked multiplier is the E5 1860v2 and it's a pretty beast in itself. This can still compete with today's CPU


These guys seem to think there are a lot of them.
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/xeons-with-an-open-multiplier.15983/
But we've also found CPUZ to be unreliable for checking this with several false positives on X 58 CPUs.
My understanding is Intel released a lot of unlocked Xeons by mistake, and also that newer firmware/drivers tries to lock them back up. But I'm not aware of any direct confirmation of this. This information gets buried in the chatter at BIOS overclocking websites because those guys don't deem it to be important.

I looked into the CPUZ scores for the E5 1650 v2 and found a lot of multiplier overclocks there. Some of them by people  I know from Overclock.net. ( Aleslammer is in X58 Xeon club) They're spread evenly up and down the chart, not just off the top  like the bogus ones. It looks to me like a legit unlocked CPU.
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...0552045352d31363530207632204020332e353047487a
They rate it between the i7 700, and i7 7700k in the performance chart.
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/ibkw1c/8
 The E5 1650 for the T3600 looks unlocked also and all the OC are 5GHz on the chart. the v2 is mostly 4.7-4.8GHz
http://valid.x86.fr/top-cpu/496e746...350552045352d313635302030204020332e323047487a


----------



## Caring1 (Apr 11, 2019)

Just to help clarify, my e5-2680 V2 is multiplier unlocked (12 - 36).


----------



## EarthDog (Apr 11, 2019)

Caring1 said:


> Just to help clarify, my e5-2680 V2 is multiplier unlocked (12 - 36).


its unlocked to turbo speeds only. Not truly an unlocked processor. This is how most modern with turbo 'locked' processors work.


----------



## Retrorockit (Apr 11, 2019)

We  haven't found any dual CPU unlocked Xeons since the old LGA771 Skulltrail QX9775.
The multiplier of 36 is for the single core turbo speed of 3.6GHz.
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-processor-e5-2680-v2-25m-cache-2-80-ghz.html 
 By unlocked we mean with no effective upper limit like the Extreme series. Some of the chips I listed are being run as high as 50x100 or even more.
There may be some potential to access some of that speed with Intel XTU. But for Throttlestop overclocking we're looking for the fully unlocked multiplier CPUs.
But if TS lets you go from 2.8Ghz on all cores to 3.6GHz all cores then it's all good. It doesn't cost anything to try it.


----------



## BouziGolouM (Apr 16, 2019)

Caring1 said:


> Just to help clarify, my e5-2680 V2 is multiplier unlocked (12 - 36).


How far can you OC it (if you can), wanted to get a 1680V2, out of price range, so were looking at the other 8 cores variant, but could settle up with 10....


----------



## juiseman (Apr 16, 2019)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Del...-AKHSUiC_kQuw0IygMoAg#spd=8271571328430217770

There is a few T3610's for $200-$300, not bad for a complete computer, just add your choice SSD and GPU....


----------



## Retrorockit (Apr 16, 2019)

I would be careful with the T3610. There's no overclocking history with this sytem. The highest CPU I see at userbenchmark is the 1650 v2. That would probably be a good place to start.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T3610/1177
If you can find a running system with a higher CPU please let us know.
Some of these chips were released unlocked, but later BIOS or chipset drivers can lock them back up.
I need to make it clear that this thread wanders off into uncharted territory every now and then. This is one of those times. There's going to be some guess work ,and trial and error involved.
For dual CPU chips turbo speed on all cores would be a good target.
As far as how far a TS overclock can go, it varies from near the  top of the chart at CPUZ to average results. There's usually a performance hit of some kind related to RAM timing not increasing, but that also provides a stability and cost benefit. 3 and 4 channel RAM helps with this. I would also look into whether single socket CPUs  can run RDIMMs or need UDIMM memory. The memory controller is on the CPU. There is an optional 685W PSU for these. Aftermarket PSUs won't fit so I would add that to my shopping list. But the standard 425W will run a GTX1060, and possibly a 1070.
If you try something and  it doesn't work please post here. The information is very useful so the same experiment isn't done over and over.
 If I were looking for a T3610 I would get a 1650v2, 16GB 4 channel RAM, and a 685W PSU running system.


----------



## juiseman (Apr 16, 2019)

Yea, the HP Z420's w/ 2013 boot block date are a better deal.
They will take a 1680v2....
I have 2 Z420's and been through several Z400's Z420's repaired
upgraded then resold. like these used Z's so much I
created a thread for them:

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/hp-workstations-owners-club.254315/

So far not much interest.

Ha...


----------



## Retrorockit (Apr 16, 2019)

juiseman said:


> Yea, the HP Z420's w/ 2013 boot block date are a better deal.
> They will take a 1680v2....
> I have 2 Z420's and been through several Z400's Z420's repaired
> upgraded then resold. like these used Z's so much I
> ...


 Have you tried a Throttlestop overclock? I just got into Dells because of overclocking some Dell BTX systems. But there's no reason not to do an HP. There are some HP owners who post in the Dell Workstation Owners Club.
 Here's a Z420 @ 4ghz with a 1650v2 scoring 88% CPU. That's pretty respectable staring point.
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/5476933 
I'm not familiar with the newer than LGA1366 CPUs. But thanks for letting us know about the Z420 1680v2.
At userbenchmark I don't see 1680v2 running but 1650v2 is the top ranking CPU there. Could you run your 1680v2 at userbenchmark so we can see what the difference is?
https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/HP-Z420-Workstation/3128


----------



## juiseman (Apr 16, 2019)

My Z420's don't have that CPU, I think 1 is a 2667v1 and the other is a 2650v2.
I will try to post some results. My main goal was to try throttle stop on my 2 other main rigs (E5-2667v2 & E5-2690v2) which are
also on the same chipset  (Intel C602) as the Z420's. These are import china boards. If it
works on them; I would imagine they will work on any of these older workstations.
But I'll have to try it out first.

http://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/search?dir=desc&q=HP+Z420&sort=multicore_score

This is showing a 2697v2 12 core in a Z420

https://compadvance.co.uk/en/item/630330/HP-Z420-8C

Here is a built one with a 1680v2 installed

I'm pretty sure they work.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=2NS-0008-34US6

*Dell Precision T3610 Workstation, 1x Xeon E5-2690 v2 3.0GHz Ten Core Processor*

http://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/12347677 *Dell Precision T3610 Workstation* *Geek Bench*

Looks like the Dell will take a 130W CPU

*Intel Xeon 2690v2 Spec:*
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-processor-e5-2690-v2-25m-cache-3-00-ghz.html

Thanks


----------



## Retrorockit (Apr 16, 2019)

The most likely result with an E5 2xxx v2 is to get Turbo speed on all cores. I see a few E5 1660v2 there.
 I like Geekbench but don't use it as a reference for Throttlestop. It either rejects the run due to detecting 2 clock speeds, or if you restart it allows the run but records the base clock as the speed with the result way out of line on the graph. They had to extend the chart up for my Dell Dimension QX6800 E520 3.72GHz run. which they charted as 2.93ghz. It should have been in line with the 3.7Ghz Pentium 4 Xeons which would have been even more of a performance gap on the chart.
 I know these 8 and 10 core CPUs hammer the benchmarks, especially with hyperthreading. But I wonder for a gaming rig if a 6 core with an overclock is still the way to go.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 16, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> But I wonder for a gaming rig if a 6 core with an overclock is still the way to go.


I'm not having any issues with my X5680 at stock. All games I have run perfectly and at 120+hz@1440P.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 16, 2019)

I found a reference from Bambiboom who I know from Tomshardware as a workstation modding enthusiast. He lists an HP Z620 E5 1680v2 @ 4.1. He was using XTU. So maybe the dual CPU machines in single mode can be an option. This didn't work for the Dell T5500 series.


----------



## Arkaign (May 2, 2019)

Hey guys! I deeply appreciate the hard work involved with all of this. 

I wonder if you can help me with determining what I'm doing wrong, or if I'm just SOL with this particular setup. 

I have a Lenovo S30 S2011 PC with a Xeon E5-1650v2 CPU. It seems to be a C600 based mobo. 

I've downloaded Throttlestop, but the multiplier doesn't seem to want to go past 39. I don't see a way to unlock this as far as I can tell. I have ThrottleStop 8.70 installed, running with admin on W10 x64 v1809, fresh install w/updates. From my cursory research on this, it seems like the 1650v2 should theoretically be overclockable? If not, is there another CPU supported by ThrottleStop in this PC I could perhaps look for? Or am I missing something? I believe I've seen people with this CPU on Z420 with good results, but for the life of me I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. 

Thanks!!!


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## juiseman (May 2, 2019)

Have also tried this tool yet?

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24075/Intel-Extreme-Tuning-Utility-Intel-XTU-

See if its also locked at x39.



Retrorockit said:


> Have you tried a Throttlestop overclock? I just got into Dells because of overclocking some Dell BTX systems. But there's no reason not to do an HP. There are some HP owners who post in the Dell Workstation Owners Club.
> Here's a Z420 @ 4ghz with a 1650v2 scoring 88% CPU. That's pretty respectable staring point.
> https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/5476933
> I'm not familiar with the newer than LGA1366 CPUs. But thanks for letting us know about the Z420 1680v2.
> ...



I was unable to get TS to work on this Huanan Intel c602 based chipset; which is understandable because the CPU's were E5-2600's series (2667v2 & 2690v2)

LINK to Motherboard I'm using for 2667v2
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/HUA...e-for-server-RAM-desktop-RAM/32850475114.html

Here is some other guys using the same board......
https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/cheap-chinese-x79-mobos.15278/page-4

I did however get the 2667v2 to maintain all 8 cores at 3.5GHZ instead of 3.3GHZ under heavy load.
I adjusted the C-states in the BIOS and now it stays at 3.5GHZ. 
The only thing is; I lost my turbo boost speed of 3.8GHZ. 
It doesn't concern me since it only momentarily stayed at 3.8 then clocked back 3.3 almost instantly 

The same result of the other import board with the 2690v2

Link to the 2690v2 board I was using: Runing X79Z B10 Motherboard
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=1HD-005V-00002


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## Retrorockit (May 2, 2019)

Arkaign said:


> Hey guys! I deeply appreciate the hard work involved with all of this.
> 
> I wonder if you can help me with determining what I'm doing wrong, or if I'm just SOL with this particular setup.
> 
> ...



I don't own one of the newer than X58 systems, so you're the one doing the work on this.
One possibility is that a newer BIOS,or chipset driver has locked down the CPU. Intel did try to shut the door on this mod. Since the unlocked status was unofficail to start with this is undocumented also. Perhaps an older version?
The diffference between TS and XTU is that TS should have better Voltage control on an unlocked CPU. TS was designed for undervolting laptops so Voltage control is built in. On unlocked CPUs it should allow raising Voltage. But it can be pretty indirect sometimes like Tubo Power Limit, Current limit, Ratio Limit etc. XTU is from Intel. and will allow what they want you to have. TS runs from in Windows and reaches back to change the BIOS settings.
I sent a PM to Unclewebb the developer of TS. He usually knows what the relevant settings will be.
We  did find that the dual CPU chipset on the LGA1366 platform won't support overclocking the unlocked single CPUs.

Did you set a High Performance user Profile, and disable as much of Windows Security as you can? I use free 3rd party AV, MW, and Rootkit programs.

Bambiboom seems to have disappeared a while ago. He really was the guy who knew about workstation modding.[/QUOTE]


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## davvy76 (May 9, 2019)

Hi all, new t3500 (£53) user here coupled with a w3680 (£25), unfortunately I've either bought a dud cpu for overclocking or the psu / vrms on the mobo are failing. I can't get past 3.6ghz using throttlestop or ixtu, I can apply the multi 30 irc and up the power limit but as soon as I stress the system I get the bsod. Anybody else experienced this on these systems? Ps, the reason I suspect it could be the psu is because when I boot from powered down state the psu crackles slightly before springing into life, I've checked all the connectors are firm inside and the lead to the psu.

I'm currently thinking about returning the t3500 and going t3600 with e5 2680 seen as it won't clock. It was a toss up between the 2 to start with but I thought the higher clock speed would win out, obviously not if I can't clock it 

Edit:
Yeah, this doesn't sound healthy at all


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## lexluthermiester (May 9, 2019)

davvy76 said:


> Hi all, new t3500 (£53) user here


Hey there, welcome to TPU!


davvy76 said:


> Ps, the reason I suspect it could be the psu is because when I boot from powered down state the psu crackles slightly before springing into life, I've checked all the connectors are firm inside and the lead to the psu.


Replace that PSU! It should never "crackle"! I wouldn't even turn it on until you replace the PSU.


davvy76 said:


> I'm currently thinking about returning the t3500


I wouldn't do that... That PSU is likely limiting your OC. 
Try this one;








						New Dell 750W Power Supply Precision 490 690 T5400 KK617 JK933 H750E-00 N750E-00  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for New Dell 750W Power Supply Precision 490 690 T5400 KK617 JK933 H750E-00 N750E-00 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				



Only $40 and it's a 750Watt instead of the 525 the T3500 came with. The wiring harness will fit perfectly.


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## davvy76 (May 9, 2019)

Hi and thanks for the welcome. I'm guessing you're a fan of the T3500's over the T3600's? I'm thinking I'll end up going the aftermarket psu route, the refurbed 750w psu's are around £40 on ebay UK and at that point I may as well go for a 600w Evga bronze unit with warranty. The seller has offered a return at their expense or a £20 partial refund. Still tempted by the T3600 purely because I've got 32gb eec rdimms I could utilise but I know sandybridge ipc isn't that much greater than westmere so if I can get this w3680 to 4ghz it should be a moot point. Main uses are web creation, encoding videos and of course gaming on an RX 580......decisions!


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## Retrorockit (May 9, 2019)

The T3600,T3610 are kind of unexplored territory for TS overclocking. Also the PSUs are strictly proprietary. The T3500 W 3680 is a known good setup. Most people get 4.3Ghz just by sticking an extra fan on the CPU cooler.
I think back around page 4 Unclewebb goes through all the settings you need to apply for this.
For aftermarket PSUs I like EVGA. Most of them have the extra 5V. power that Dells require. Make sure an aftermarket PSU is up to what the original provided on the 5V. rail. Also Dell uses a full time continuos rating system. The aftermarket uses a "peak power" rating system for advertising. So you will need at least 650W to equal the 525W Dell part. I don't have tests for all the Dell PSUs but the old Optiplex 305W PSU when tested made 400W "peak" power.








						Dell H305P-01 Power Supply Review - Hardware Insights
					

Contents1First Look2Load Testing3Actual Specifications and ConclusionsFirst Look Once again, we’re looking at a unit from a major OEM. Unlike last time, however, we’re looking at a unit from a PC […]




					www.hardwareinsights.com
				



 But a used Dell PSU is usually my first choice also.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (May 10, 2019)

Just chiming in to say I have my T3500 board hooked up to a standard ATX PSU...a cheap 650W Corsair unit and it has been powering my PC with a 290X for some time now and not a single issue.  The PSU mounting and size might be different, but if you're planning a case swap, it's no big deal, and I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to mount an ATX PSU in the T3500 case.


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## davvy76 (May 10, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> The T3600,T3610 are kind of unexplored territory for TS overclocking. Also the PSUs are strictly proprietary. The T3500 W 3680 is a known good setup. Most people get 4.3Ghz just by sticking an extra fan on the CPU cooler.
> I think back around page 4 Unclewebb goes through all the settings you need to apply for this.
> For aftermarket PSUs I like EVGA. Most of them have the extra 5V. power that Dells require. Make sure an aftermarket PSU is up to what the original provided on the 5V. rail. Also Dell uses a full time continuos rating system. The aftermarket uses a "peak power" rating system for advertising. So you will need at least 650W to equal the 525W Dell part. I don't have tests for all the Dell PSUs but the old Optiplex 305W PSU when tested made 400W "peak" power.
> 
> ...



Hi, thanks for the info and sorry for the delayed reply, got sidetracked crossflashing an ibm lsi card to give me sata 3 speeds back. I've ended up going for a Corsair cx650 psu because it's impossible to find the higher what psu in the UK for a decent price and when you do find the model lexluthermeister recommended it's got some bizarre wiring harness without eps connector, guessing it's an older version or ebay seller mislabelled. Corsair should be good, says 12v 54amp, 5v 20 amp, +5vsb 3 amp. If it goes up in a plume of smoke I'll be sure to report back 



Aaron_Henderson said:


> Just chiming in to say I have my T3500 board hooked up to a standard ATX PSU...a cheap 650W Corsair unit and it has been powering my PC with a 290X for some time now and not a single issue.  The PSU mounting and size might be different, but if you're planning a case swap, it's no big deal, and I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to mount an ATX PSU in the T3500 case.



Exactly what I ordered last night, thanks for the info. I got a tenner off for using the amazon app, can't complain at that 

Edit (ignore me, just found the dell specific setting in sppedfan) Does anybody else have issues monitoring what the front fans are doing? I've tried hw monitor and speedfan, neither of which seem to pick them up. Fans are obviously working because they ramp up and down and there's no bios warnings. Bios is A17 if that makes a difference.

Also I've just realised I've hijacked the throttlestop thread, in hindsight this should have been in the workstation thread seen as it turned out to be a hardware fault. Apologies!


----------



## Retrorockit (May 10, 2019)

Not relly a hijack. youre trying to get it running for an overclock. But the T 3600/3610 info might be better at the workstation club. No one here has tried it yet.


----------



## bebop350 (May 25, 2019)

unclewebb said:


> ThrottleStop is a Windows only app.
> For the 1st Gen Core i CPUs, it should be pretty easy to write a little script to overclock in Linux.  The MSRs are publicly documented by Intel.
> 
> For the turbo multipliers you would need to write to
> ...


The MSR info you've provided is incredibly useful for overclocking in Linux, and very much appreciated.

Increasing wattage makes perfect sense to me. The rest of it, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around. I have some questions, if you'd be so kind as to help:

" MSR 0x1AD - EDX = 0x00000000 "
What is the significance of this? What do the letters (EDX) after the dash mean?

" MSR 0x1AD - EAX = 0x1E11E1E1E "
How can I write 2 different values to MSR 0x1AD? I don't understand how 0x1E11E1E1E equals a 30 multiplier. Is it a typo; Should it be: 0x1E1E1E1E (as 1E hex is 30 decimal and 1E is repeated 4 times, once for each physical core)?

My system is a Dell 0x501h (Dell XPS 9000 board) with a W3680. I'd like to use a 29 multiplier and 150w limit (It needs nearly 200w for X30 4GHz and X31 appears to be unstable). Turbo is working. I'm probably getting well ahead of myself, but I'm most curious if I can simplify this into 2 commands, such as this in msrtools:

wrmsr 0x1AC 0x4B0                             # 0x4BO being the hex of desired wattage times 8 (in this case 150w)
wrmsr 0x1AD 0x1D1D1D1D1D1D       # 1D being the hex value of the desired multi printed once for each physical core (in this case 29)

I mean, I'd just try it, but I'd rather get your opinion first to avoid any risk to the hardware.

I'm also curious as to how high you think the wattage can be safely pushed on these locked Dell boards in general (assuming optimal VRM cooling); if you have an opinion on that, or anyone else for that matter, I'd love to hear it. Thank you.


----------



## unclewebb (May 25, 2019)

These old CPUs are built like tanks so I would not worry too much about hurting one.  On the Dell boards you are not able to change the core voltage so there is even less chance of hurting anything.



bebop350 said:


> Is it a typo; Should it be: 0x1E1E1E1E



Sorry about the typo.  My eyes are not as good as they used to be.  Too much programming!  
Your correction is correct.

EAX and EDX are just two registers within pretty much all Intel CPUs.  At the lowest level, you fill up these registers with info, run a command and then check these registers to see the results.  ThrottleStop is a 32 bit program so instead of being able to read and write 64 bits of information to the CPU in one shot, it has to be broken up into 2 chunks of 32 bits.



bebop350 said:


> wrmsr 0x1AD 0x1D1D1D1D1D1D



That looks correct.

Give it a try and see what happens.  If you have any problems overclocking, have a look in MSR 0x199.  That register can be used to limit the maximum multiplier.  I will check back tomorrow to see your results.  Looking forward to some Dell - Linux overclocking.

Edit - I have not heard of any VRM cooling issues.  My nephew has been rocking his overclocked W3680 day in, day out for the last year with no complaints.


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## Retrorockit (May 25, 2019)

The XPS 9000 has a high end ATX motherboard. I haven't researched that specific one but I own a very similar Alienware ALX Micro ATX 04vwf2 which is AKA- MSI 7591 v1. The VRM on these already has heatpipe cooling on the chipset and VRM. There is probably an aftermarket equivalent of that board. There are any number of aftermarket heatsinks that will fit that. I would stay within the Wattage of the CPU fan Dell provided, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's much higher than the typical .3A aftermarket fans. If you can fit a thicker 120x38mm fan I would do so. The more cooling the more power you can get away with. But everything has a limit. A spare CPU is always a good idea if you want to explore this. The actual limits for this type of overclocking are so far unknown.
Linux may allow more direct control than Windows provides. It also means you're probably not a gamer and your data may have some actual purpose or value. These X58 ATX motherboards tend to cost as much as a whole T3500 workstation. But your project will provide some insight into how TS overclocking works an an ATX computer. You might see if there is an Alienware version of that. Often there is an unlocked BIOS available there.


----------



## bebop350 (May 25, 2019)

unclewebb said:


> These old CPUs are built like tanks so I would not worry too much about hurting one.  On the Dell boards you are not able to change the core voltage so there is even less chance of hurting anything.
> 
> Sorry about the typo.  My eyes are not as good as they used to be.  Too much programming!
> Your correction is correct.
> ...


Thank you for the explanation and for getting back so quickly. I hear you, mine aren't aren't either.   No worries, just wanted to make sure I understood correctly.



unclewebb said:


> Give it a try and see what happens.  If you have any problems overclocking, have a look in MSR 0x199.  That register can be used to limit the maximum multiplier.  I will check back tomorrow to see your results.  Looking forward to some Dell - Linux overclocking.
> 
> Edit - I have not heard of any VRM cooling issues.  My nephew has been rocking his overclocked W3680 day in, day out for the last year with no complaints.


Turbo seems to work, so I thought it unnecessary. But you're correct; the CPU wouldn't actually use the higher multi unless 0x199 was changed.

It worked like a charm:




^^Thats a screencap from when I started a 24hr stress test last night. I'm grateful for all the info. It would have taken many, many hours to find and figure out this MSR data (supposing I could have figured it out at all).

Fellow Linux users, you might want to have a look at cpupower or the older cpufreq (depending on your disto). However I couldn't get cpupower to work on Arch after weeks of trying. Supposedly some boards/BIOS (such as the 0x501h) lock the OS from setting a CPU governor.  Anyway, I used this site to convert decimal to hex and vice versa. This is the script I made:

```
#!/bin/bash
###You need msrtools for this to work
###I wouldn't use this script with any other CPU architecture other than X58/LGA 1366 Westmere 32nm
###You probably need to run this as root (sudo) for it to work. As in: "sudo sh overclock.sh"

modprobe msr
###Load the msr kernel module

wrmsr 0x1AC 0x837084B0
###Raise the power limit. 0x370 is the default max amperage of 110 multiplied by 8 then converted to hexidecimal. 0x4B0 is the desired max wattage multiplied by 8 then converted to hex (in this case 150x8=1200)

wrmsr 0x1AD 0x1D1D1D1D1D1D
###Raise the multi. 1D being the hex value of the desired multi of 29 printed once for each physical core

wrmsr 0x199 0x1A
###Enable turbo properly. The default multi+1. For a W3680 its 26, hex value 1A
```



Retrorockit said:


> The XPS 9000 has a high end ATX motherboard. I haven't researched that specific one but I own a very similar Alienware ALX Micro ATX 04vwf2 which is AKA- MSI 7591 v1. The VRM on these already has heatpipe cooling on the chipset and VRM. There is probably an aftermarket equivalent of that board. There are any number of aftermarket heatsinks that will fit that. I would stay within the Wattage of the CPU fan Dell provided, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's much higher than the typical .3A aftermarket fans. If you can fit a thicker 120x38mm fan I would do so. The more cooling the more power you can get away with. But everything has a limit. A spare CPU is always a good idea if you want to explore this. The actual limits for this type of overclocking are so far unknown.
> Linux may allow more direct control than Windows provides. It also means you're probably not a gamer and your data may have some actual purpose or value. These X58 ATX motherboards tend to cost as much as a whole T3500 workstation. But your project will provide some insight into how TS overclocking works an an ATX computer. You might see if there is an Alienware version of that. Often there is an unlocked BIOS available there.


Never checked out Alienware, great idea. I've checked MSI and Foxconn boards, but not quite the same. The 0x501h BIOS is (reportedly) encrypted or some such, so BIOS mods are not possible unfortunately.

Sorry for the lack of system info, I'll fill it out shortly. I've been struggling with the cpupower overclocking application for weeks using Linux on a flashdrive, and so was in a rush to get the overclock finalized, stress tested, and start using the rig again (want to make sure it's stable so I don't risk my data).

Cooling is not an issue, but I appreciate the info nonetheless. We spoke on OCN (I'm "Almost Heathen"). The system is used as both a NAS and an HTPC, so lots of gaming actually (I know overclocking a system with server duties is frowned upon, but it'll do 3.9GHz with near stock wattage).


----------



## bebop350 (Jun 7, 2019)

Userbenchmark runs, as requested by Retrorockit:

X29 ~3.9GHz (stable): 75.9%
X30 ~4GHz (unknown stability): 78.7%
X31 ~4.1GHz (unstable): 81.2%
All benchmarks will have low disk scores, as the Windows install is on a cheap flash drive.
Thought you might like this too; W3680 vs Ryzen 1600:



Please pardon the double post (I can't seem to edit my previous one).


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## Retrorockit (Jun 8, 2019)

I always wonder if HT is worth the trouble. Better stability and clock speeds w/o it I would assume.  CPUZ runs benches at different thread counts for 6t vs 6t comparisons.
 I know the benchmarks reward CPU core count but most apps. don't  ASFAIK. But if it's a server it may need them all.
Anyway your XPS9000 is on the chart there with a 76% overall CPU score. A nice bump up from the previous limit of 68% for the unlocked X980/W3680 CPUs on that system.
I guess your faster runs didn't get published because of stability issues. It looks like 3.9Ghz is where your system ended up there.
 I was hoping the XPS stuff would give a way forward from the T3500 setup, but so far it's not happeneing.
 As usual on a locked BIOS system TS goes to the top of the chart for CPU score relative to other similar systems.
Thanks for participating and posting your results. 
I guess there's a reason this always looks like a Dell T3500 thread. But other systems are always welcome.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 8, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> I always wonder if HT is worth the trouble. Better stability and clock speeds w/o it I would assume.


True. This has been known since the first days of the Pentium 4 HT models. OC's are much better/easier with HT off.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jun 9, 2019)

Back then I knew it wasn't worth the bother because the performance increase was so small in P4. But I came into overclocking during the Core 2 era which did away with it altogether. I would still do without it unless there was a need for the extra cores. But bebop350 is a Linux user so he probably knows what he's up to. I just stuck that in there for any others who may read this thread. There may be more in that system for other users


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> Back then I knew it wasn't worth the bother because the performance increase was so small in P4. But I came into overclocking during the Core 2 era which did away with it altogether. I would still do without it unless there was a need for the extra cores. But bebop350 is a Linux user so he probably knows what he's up to. I just stuck that in there for any others who may read this thread. There may be more in that system for other users


I was given, unintentionally, a challenge to live without HT(because of all the new vulnerability discoveries) on both my X5680 gaming system and this X5675 internet system. I have yet to notice a difference in anything beyond AV programs. Even then it's not much. Not an inconvenience. It's interesting how important we think something is until we need to live without it and everything carries on fine.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jun 9, 2019)

Even in X58 Intel has  offered 2 core Xeon CPUs with very high clock speeds. Very rare and very expensive.
X5698 base clock 4.4GHz 2C/4T. So there are some serious users who pay serious money for fewer faster threads.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> Even in X58 Intel has  offered 2 core Xeon CPUs with very high clock speeds. Very rare and very expensive.
> X5698 base clock 4.4GHz 2C/4T. So there are some serious users who pay serious money for fewer faster threads.


I wonder what the usage scenario is?


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## Retrorockit (Jun 9, 2019)

My guess would be 2 CPU systems with 4C/8T. Maybe let a game developer program for future systems? Stock traders who need to get the first punch in. I've seen EVGA SR2 being sold in a batch of 10 in the stock trading area of Boca Raton. Apparently fast 2CPU systems mean something there. RAM capacity and bandwidth would make HDD speed pretty much irrelevant. Not sure really. But 4.4Ghz with a warrranty and full workstation level tech support didn't come cheap.


----------



## MrGRiMv25 (Jun 9, 2019)

Those X5698's were "Intel Everest" CPU's specced for order at insane cost, something like 20k if I'm remembering correctly.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jun 9, 2019)

New meaning to the phrase "Less is More".


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> My guess would be 2 CPU systems with 4C/8T. Maybe let a game developer program for future systems? Stock traders who need to get the first punch in. I've seen EVGA SR2 being sold in a batch of 10 in the stock trading area of Boca Raton. Apparently fast 2CPU systems mean something there. RAM capacity and bandwidth would make HDD speed pretty much irrelevant. Not sure really. But 4.4Ghz with a warranty and full workstation level tech support didn't come cheap.


I can see those scenario's. Makes one wonder what the gaming side of that might be and if ThrottleStop(or the SR2 motherboard) can take those CPU's beyond their 4.4ghz limits?


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## Retrorockit (Jun 11, 2019)

They're not unlocked CPUs AFAIK. None of the 2 CPU X58 Xeons were. So TS probably no. SR2 has an unlocked BIOS and can overclock those Xeons so I would  say yes to that.


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## jbigticket23 (Jun 13, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> I came across something that may be of interest to those who feel X58 is too retro.
> The Dell T3610 LGA2011 system. It's not X79, but C602 chipset and overclocking ASFAIK is unknown. But there are plenty of unlocked X79 Xeons and with 4 channel DDR3 RAM it's a pretty potent system as is.
> https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T3610/1177
> These guys like it. But I can't confirm that all their CPU choices like the 150W or 8 core CPUs actually work in the Dell.
> ...


All of the processors that greenpcgamers.com posts have been tested and verified to work in the systems.  Upgrade your bios with the existing processor installed first to ensure you have the latest microcode updates.


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## Retrorockit (Jun 13, 2019)

I think some of the unlocked X79 Xeon CPUs got relocked by Intel with microcode updates. So there may be updates that give CPU support, and later ones that lock down the multiplier.
I would do some research on this. A partial update may be what you want. Like the X58 Xeons none of them were supposed to be unlocked. Some of the overclocking happens because they're supported on unlocked aftermarket motherboards. Some of it by getting around the locked workstation BIOS using TS.


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## Grog6 (Jun 13, 2019)

There's an X79 overclocking thread here.

I'm running a e5-1650v2 on this system, and it has an unlocked multiplier (to 71 apparently, but I've not tried over 50, which was by accident), and it overclocks just fine.

It runs significantly cooler than the 3930k I replaced.

I'm running an X5670 6 core in my X58 system, it has a limit on the multiplier that has to do with the mobo; other mobo's will clock higher multipliers than my Asus P6TD Deluxe. 
I need to look into other bios's, but It's running 4.2GHz as is.

I'm going to see if I can stuff another 24GB of memory in it tonight; I hear it will run up to 48GB.


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## unclewebb (Jun 14, 2019)

Grog6 said:


> it has a limit on the multiplier that has to do with the mobo


The maximum multiplier limit is set by Intel.  CPU World shows what speed your CPU can run at when the BCLK is set to its default value.



			http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon%20X5670%20-%20AT80614005130AA%20(BX80614X5670).html
		


To overclock the X5670 on an Asus P6TD board, you need to increase the BCLK in the bios.  To obtain the maximum multiplier on this board, you need to enable your C States, core C3 or C6.  The maximum multiplier is only going to be available when 1 or 2 cores are active.  Most users prefer to disable the C States in the bios so the multiplier is consistent regardless of how many cores are active. 

If it was my board, I would disable turbo boost and run the default 22 multiplier.  This multi combined with a 200 MHz BCLK would make for a nice 4.4 GHz system.  Set the memory multiplier so your memory is running within spec and add CPU voltage until it is stable.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 14, 2019)

Grog6 said:


> I'm running an X5670 6 core in my X58 system, it has a limit on the multiplier that has to do with the mobo; other mobo's will clock higher multipliers than my Asus P6TD Deluxe.





unclewebb said:


> If it was my board, I would disable turbo boost and run the default 22 multiplier. This multi combined with a 200 MHz BCLK would make for a nice 4.4 GHz system. Set the memory multiplier so your memory is running within spec and add CPU voltage until it is stable.


This ^ ^ Depending on the board and CPU, 201, 202 or 203 mhz BCLK might be more stable. Because of silicon lottery for both the CPU and the chipset, OC's are not an exact science so you may have to to tinker and tweak to get a perfectly stable OC.


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## Grog6 (Jun 15, 2019)

The bios lets me set 24 in the bios, but it resets to 22 when it exits. I've read the P6T does not do that, but the P6T bios won't run some of the stuff I use.

I've got the BCLK set to 200, with a 22 mul right now; that's really very stable, and runs amazingly cool. It's worked handbrake for hours.

I'm peaking about 80C on a 6 heat pipe cooler, thermalright true black 120.

I can't even get 201 to work, I'd like to have those extra two mul steps, but bios editing is not my thing, lol.

The 24 mul worked once, the first time I set it; IDK why but it's never worked since.
And it works on the P6T, apparently.

I found the OC info awhile back on overclock.net.

I can't believe how expensive these processors were when they were new. 

I could not, however, get to 48GB of ram; it won't recognize it, even in bios.
It counts to 24, but no more.  If it boots at all.
It's mismatched sets, so that could be it.
I'll keep trying; it's capturing my Sis' home video tapes at the moment, lol.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 15, 2019)

Grog6 said:


> It's mismatched sets, so that could be it.


Likely, especially if it's ECC. X58 is known for being picky about RAM.


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## Retrorockit (Jun 15, 2019)

8GB modules are right at the limit for UDIMMs. Workstations go to RDIMM at that size.
Many users at at OCN  X58 Xeon Club are running 48GB and they pretty much know what works and what doesn't.








						[Official] - X58 Xeon Club -
					

BCLK=200, SPD=6; CPU=20&Uncore=16,18;Pci-e=109  That's not going to happen, but setting PCIe to 100 instead of Auto did at least let me turn on BCLK control and raise it back to 150 (but still not 151) with F14p so thanks for the inspiration, I'm at least back where I started.




					www.overclock.net


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## unclewebb (Jun 15, 2019)

Grog6 said:


> The bios lets me set 24 in the bios, but it resets to 22 when it exits.


Did you enable Intel Turbo Boost in the bios?  The multiplier is limited to 22 when Turbo Boost is disabled.  

If your bios is broken you can try using ThrottleStop to enable Turbo Boost.  Make sure the Disable Turbo Boost box in ThrottleStop is not checked.  Post some screenshots of ThrottleStop if you need help. 

When testing, back the BCLK off quite a bit before trying to enable Turbo Boost.  If the CPU multiplier goes from 22 to 24 and your BCLK is at 200 MHz, that is a big jump from 4400 MHz to 4800 MHz.  It usually takes a lot more CPU voltage to get that stable.  Not enough voltage and you will instantly get a BSOD.


----------



## beastmaster64 (Jun 16, 2019)

Hello, i own a dell t5500 since 2015 and about 3 or 4 days ago my fans ramped up full and i shut off my pc, when i started it again there were three problems or alerts
Alert! Card Cage Fan Failure error
Alert! unable to initialize the fan controller
Alert! Air temperature sensor not detected
the pc works fine and all fans are on,but the fans are max speed very loud
i tried speedfan and it doesnt change the speed of fans,
i tried powering off dissconecting all the things from the pc and it worked, but only for 30 secs and the fans are still full power,
any help would be appreciated.(sry for my english)


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 16, 2019)

beastmaster64 said:


> Hello, i own a dell t5500 since 2015 and about 3 or 4 days ago my fans ramped up full and i shut off my pc, when i started it again there were three problems or alerts
> Alert! Card Cage Fan Failure error
> Alert! unable to initialize the fan controller
> Alert! Air temperature sensor not detected
> ...


This is a problem that happens from time to time on Dell systems from the time-frame the T3500/5500/7500 systems were made.
The fan controller on a particular run of motherboards can sometimes glitch out. Here's how to resolve the issue;

1. Power down the system and unplug the system power cable from the PSU.

2. Unplug and reseat(plug back in) all of the fan connectors in the system. Sometimes the connectors lose connection and this sets off a system alert in the bios.

3. Find the Power Supply Reset button on the back of the PSU(this presumes you are using a Dell PSU, if you have a non-Dell ATX PSU skip steps 3 & 4)

4. Press and hold the PSU reset button.

5. Press the system power button. This will fully drain the PSU of power(and reset stored info in the PSU internal IC if a Dell PSU is used).

6. Plug the system power cable back back in and power on the system.

7. Enter the BIOS by holding down the " F2 " key until the screen shows " Enter Setup " is highlighted.

8. Go to the logs entry and clear the system alerts.

9. Select save and restart.

The problem should be solved at that point and the system should boot normally with the fans not running full blast.
If this does not solve the problem try this procedure a second time. Otherwise your board might have developed a fault and may need replacement.


----------



## ManGupta (Jun 26, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> My guess would be 2 CPU systems with 4C/8T. Maybe let a game developer program for future systems? Stock traders who need to get the first punch in. I've seen EVGA SR2 being sold in a batch of 10 in the stock trading area of Boca Raton. Apparently fast 2CPU systems mean something there. RAM capacity and bandwidth would make HDD speed pretty much irrelevant. Not sure really. But 4.4Ghz with a warrranty and full workstation level tech support didn't come cheap.



Aren't 2 CPU system slower than single CPU system in case of applications where both cpus work on same data set, hence latency??

2 CPUs would be advantage only in case of applications which use more cores like Video rendering, editing, 3D modelling, Virtualization Cinebench etc. But in normal daily  use applications, gaming etc latency may be disadvantageous, perhaps.

Correct me if I am wrong. BUT due to these apprehensions only I backed out of good deals in T5500 (with Raiser) and T7600  (with 2 cpus). Particularly T7600  was being offered around $450 with 2 slower 8 core CPUs and 128 GBs of RAM. But I somewhat did not liked the idea of more cores with slower clock speeds as well as LATENCY. in 2 CPU system I also do not like the case air flow where hot air from one CPU further passes through the second CPU, particularly in T7600 and T5600 where cabinet size is more compact as compared to T7500 or even T5500.

Sandy bridge Xeons, as compared to Westmere Xeons, have lower  clock speeds, but 2 cores more, and no fully confirmed report of overclocking.
I also backed out of a deal of T3600 around $200 because it had only 425 watts Power Unit and I also did not liked the idea of more but slower cores.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jun 26, 2019)

ManGupta said:


> Aren't 2 CPU system slower than single CPU system in case of applications where both cpus work on same data set, hence latency??


To a degree, yes. It's usually not enough to make a difference.



ManGupta said:


> 2 CPUs would be advantage only in case of applications which use more cores like *Video rendering, editing, 3D modelling, Virtualization Cinebench etc*. But in normal daily use applications, gaming etc latency may be disadvantageous, perhaps.


Those are the main scenario's where dual CPU's would be an advantage. Gaming doesn't benefit at all from additional CPU's.


----------



## ManGupta (Jun 26, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> To a degree, yes. It's usually not enough to make a difference.
> 
> 
> Those are the main scenario's where dual CPU's would be an advantage. Gaming doesn't benefit at all from additional CPU's.



I watched this video on Youtube, where the user is having double E5-2630 v2 in T7620.

The video does not have much info  but in the comments section underneath he says that -

It is surprisingly slow for daily use.

this computer is configured is for simulation and crunching numbers.

He has also got Precision 7530 Xeon laptop that feels faster than this Precision T7620 dual-Xeon workstation.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jul 1, 2019)

Hey everyone,
The user @Durkhead started a thread asking the following;


Durkhead said:


> I have a optiplex 745 sff with qx6800 and gt 1030 I use throttle stop to overclock when I ran it the first time I got to 3.4ghz stable so like a dummy I decided to push to 3.7 it started to get unstable an it crashed windows 10 did a repair thingy and it came back, now when I raise the multiplier it lowers the bus speed so it never goes above 2.9 GHz what's wrong with it


I though it would be helpful to bring them over here. Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## Durkhead (Jul 1, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Hey everyone,
> The user @Durkhead started a thread asking the following;
> 
> I though it would be helpful to bring them over here. Anyone have any suggestions?


I talked the unclewebb guy an he said it's just windows being stupid I was trying to play emulator an was getting slowdowns I figured 3.7ghz would be enough but I guess not


----------



## Retrorockit (Jul 1, 2019)

The Optiplex 745 has a very compromised VRM. 3 phase which is actually OK in itself, but only 2 MOSFETS per. Due to the full multiplier steps on the QX6800 3.45GHz is about it. Heatsinks on the VRM Mosfets will of course help. If you look at CPUZ 3.45 GHZ is actually the average overclock on an MSI motherboard for that CPU. Only the 4 phase ASUS, and Dell Dimensions go higher. Even the 2 core X6800 struggles to go 3.73 due to the B3 stepping.
The XPS 200 SFF, and Dimension 9200C (same thing) came in BTX SFF and had 4 phase VRM. Those MB should  take a G0 QX6800 to 3.73Ghz. The Dell MB will shut down at 1.6V. so stay below that some and see what you get.
Here is a Dimension E520 running 3.7Ghz. 51% single core, and 58% 4 core ranking is not too bad for a 2005 computer.


			Dell DM061 Performance Results - UserBenchmark
		

It's the mid tower version. You need to look these up by Dell Model# DM061. That user glued copper sheet metal" flags" to the vertically mounted MOSFETS.
I have runs on the chart at CPUZ 3.99Ghz on that system. There's a link to one in my sig.
You might squeeze a little more out of it by underclocking the FSB with SetFSB, and add another multiplier, then bring it back up. But the MB from the multimedia systems is a much better place to start.
Due to the age of these finding one with good capacitors is not easy.





						Overclocking Dell BTX Computers
					

Why overclock a Dell? Because they're there. Millions of them in fact. Just about every Dell, HP, Gateway, Acer, etc. Intel computer for almost 10 years was a BTX. Many of them are being sold now as refurbished computers for less than you can buy an operating system license. BTX was originally a...




					forums.tomshardware.com
				




The issue with the Dellls downclocking the FSB has been seen before. Do you have C states disbaled in TS. Do you have a High Performance user profile set in Account manager.


----------



## Durkhead (Jul 2, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> The Optiplex 745 has a very compromised VRM. 3 phase which is actually OK in itself, but only 2 MOSFETS per. Due to the full multiplier steps on the QX6800 3.45GHz is about it. Heatsinks on the VRM Mosfets will of course help. If you look at CPUZ 3.45 GHZ is actually the average overclock on an MSI motherboard for that CPU. Only the 4 phase ASUS, and Dell Dimensions go higher. Even the 2 core X6800 struggles to go 3.73 due to the B3 stepping.
> The XPS 200 SFF, and Dimension 9200C (same thing) came in BTX SFF and had 4 phase VRM. Those MB should  take a G0 QX6800 to 3.73Ghz. The Dell MB will shut down at 1.6V. so stay below that some and see what you get.
> Here is a Dimension E520 running 3.7Ghz. 51% single core, and 58% 4 core ranking is not too bad for a 2005 computer.
> 
> ...


Yes I disabled c states an made sure windows was set to high performance the other thing I did was turn of speedstep in bios after down clocked the first time it didn't fix it so I turned it back on


----------



## Retrorockit (Jul 4, 2019)

I've seen the FSB downclocking before, but don't recall what the solution was. Maybe reinstall TS6. EIST may have something to do with it. Do you have the 2 clock modulation controls turned off? They should be at 100%. Maybe you can use SetFSB to lock it in. It's not useful for overclocking on these but might help with your problem. TS was designed for underclocking laptops for battery life so there are settings in there to do that.
 I didn't spend a lot of time on the Opti745 since I already had the better E520 system. I stuck in a 2 motor fan running off of Molex, and confirmed the overclocks worked. You might get 3.73 out of it with some work. But I think it will be on the ragged edge.


----------



## Durkhead (Jul 4, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> I've seen the FSB downclocking before, but don't recall what the solution was. Maybe reinstall TS6. EIST may have something to do with it. Do you have the 2 clock modulation controls turned off? They should be at 100%. Maybe you can use SetFSB to lock it in. It's not useful for overclocking on these but might help with your problem. TS was designed for underclocking laptops for battery life so there are settings in there to do that.
> I didn't spend a lot of time on the Opti745 since I already had the better E520 system. I stuck in a 2 motor fan running off of Molex, and confirmed the overclocks worked. You might get 3.73 out of it with some work. But I think it will be on the ragged edge.


I talked to unclewebb an he told me how to change windows timers an I was able to fix it, I got it stable at 3.7ghz (the fan sounds like a vacuum cleaner)


----------



## Retrorockit (Jul 4, 2019)

That's a great result for a MB with 6 MOSFETs instead of the 12 the other ones have. If it was an MT size i could tell you how to quiet it down but SFF is ouside my experience. What cooling do you have? What size fan? Could you run that at userbenchmark.com so other Opti745 owners can see what's possible? The previous hot setup was the Q6600 pimod to 3 GHz which wouldn't equal a stock Q9650 in the later Optis. I think that will score  higher than my Opti 380 with X5470@ 3.33Ghz.




__





						Dell OptiPlex 380 Performance Results - UserBenchmark
					





					www.userbenchmark.com
				



 I love it when those old P4 era systems jump up and take the lead. I think that will be the fastest LGA775 Optiplex out there.


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## Durkhead (Jul 4, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> That's a great result for a MB with 6 MOSFETs instead of the 12 the other ones have. If it was an MT size i could tell you how to quiet it down but SFF is ouside my experience. What cooling do you have? What size fan?


It's whatever the stock one is all I know is it has copper pipes I read somewhere that's good I think the gt 1030 is helping to it has a little fan pointing up so it's moving the air all around I don't mind the noise I don't wanna change anything else I've spent to much money on it already


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## Retrorockit (Jul 4, 2019)

Here are a couple part # for 90x38mm fans. Yours should be 90x32mm. These are both Dell fans. The thicker fans can move more air per RPM. But 32mm is thciker than normal 25mm already.
M35105-58 130 CFM 5700 RPM 1.8A 3 wire Thermal control (exhaust only _ reverse airflow, or remote thermistor/potentiometer mod required).
M35291-35 150CFM 6000RPM 2.3A 4 wire PWM 9 blade.


			https://datasheet.octopart.com/M34789-33-Nidec-datasheet-643872.pdf
		

Notice on the chart that the big 9 blade fan moves 120CFM at 2000RPM against what is a mid level pressure for the less powerful fans. That's 33% RPM level for this PWM fan.


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## Retrorockit (Jul 9, 2019)

Here's an old thread about the fsb downclocking at Tomshardware.




__





						Unigine slower with overclock, but 3Dmark is  faster
					

I've overclocked my Dell Dimension E520 QX6800 from 2.93GHz. base to 3.72GHz, stable. In 3Dmark my physics scores and overall scores improved as expected. But they are much worse in Unigine benchmarks with the overclock applied. I used Throttlestop 6.00 software overclock to unlock volts and...




					forums.tomshardware.com
				



I've also had issues with Unigine when running a 4GB GPU and 8GB RAM. Went from 1050Ti 4GB to 3GB GTX1060 to fix it ( and then some).
I met someone at Toms who's flogging an E520. I tiold him a few things to try to get past the 4 GHz barrier, or maybe get it bench stable at 4GHz. I'm glad people are still having fun with the old Pentium 4 era BTX Dells. It looks like Dell was looking forward to the 4GHz Pentium 4 CPUs Intel was promising that never came. BTX was specifically designed for that, but the later 45nm versions all had reduced VRM capacity.
Another thing that might be fun for the Opti 745 is to text edit TS so it only overclocks the first 2 cores ( Core0,1). This might let you do some gaming at 4Ghz on that machine. I think the speed is there, but the 6 MOSFET VRM needs all the help it can get.


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## ManGupta (Jul 15, 2019)

Unclewebb,

Thanks for TS utility.

I tried your utility for first time, W3680 on T3500.





__





						Dell Precision WorkStation T3500   Performance Results - UserBenchmark
					





					www.userbenchmark.com
				










Ran Prime95 small FFTs for 30 minutes ...... was stable. Max Temp during Prime95 stress test was 71C, idle temp 44C, (ambient temp here is 33C now.





In terms of single core performance W3680 (on T3500) is at 5th Rank, i.e., below Core i7 4770K,  i7 3930K, core i7 3770 and core i7 3720QM. Top among Xeons.


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## Durkhead (Jul 15, 2019)

ManGupta said:


> Unclewebb,
> 
> Thanks for TS utility.
> 
> ...


Did the task manager show the 4ghz overclock


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## unclewebb (Jul 15, 2019)

ManGupta said:


> Thanks for TS utility.


You are welcome.

I dug through my imgur archives and found my best T3500 - W3680 Cinenbench time.
938






If ThrottleStop shows your multiplier going lower than 31.00 during Cinebench, click on the TPL button and bump up the TDP / TDC values.

No complaints from my nephew Jayden.  He loves his T3500 - W3680 combo.



Durkhead said:


> Did the task manager show the 4ghz overclock


The Task Manager MHz is a little flaky on some of the older Core 2 based CPUs.  I think it does better on most Core i CPUs.

Edit - Here is my userbenchmark run for comparison.  I bumped the multi up one notch to 32.  It was running on the edge of stability.  




__





						Dell Precision WorkStation T3500   Performance Results - UserBenchmark
					





					www.userbenchmark.com


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## ManGupta (Jul 15, 2019)

unclewebb said:


> You are welcome.
> 
> I dug through my imgur archives and found my best T3500 - W3680 Cinenbench time.
> 938
> ...



TDP is set at 210 and TDC to 130
I first set multiplier to 30 then 31, didnot go for 32, but ran cinebench after Prime95 stress test for stability.

However after restart the multipliers went back to default value. How to make it permanent? Do we have to rerun TS after every restart ?



Durkhead said:


> Did the task manager show the 4ghz overclock


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## MrGRiMv25 (Jul 15, 2019)

ManGupta said:


> TDP is set at 210 and TDC to 130
> I first set multiplier to 30 then 31, didnot go for 32, but ran cinebench after Prime95 stress test for stability.
> 
> However after restart the multipliers went back to default value. How to make it permanent? Do we have to rerun TS after every restart ?
> ...



You can make Throttlestop start with Windows, that should stop you having to set it every time you boot.

(Also, edit one/or all of the profiles in Throttlestop to your current settings and it will use that profile until you choose another)

Go in to regedit, then > LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run and make a new string value pointing to where Throttlestop is.



EDIT: forgot to add "praise be to UncleWebb for Throttlestop haha!"


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## Retrorockit (Jul 15, 2019)

Mangupta,what cooling/fan setup are you running now? I know you have some >40*C. weather coming soon. Stock cooler & big fan, or did you get the Dynatron G17?

I personally consider P95 small FFT to be a great stress test, but sort of irrelevant for day to day stability. I would add an extra multipler. But then my data isn't very important either.
For gaming and benchmarking I would test with less than 1 per core/ thread examples of P95 to better represent actual loads. I would also turn off Hyperthreading. It will kill the benchmark scores but might allow a higher clock speed for gaming. But I know many of you guys from the workstation thread are more serious users than I am.


----------



## ManGupta (Jul 15, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> Mangupta,what cooling/fan setup are you running now? I know you have some >40*C. weather coming soon. Stock cooler & big fan, or did you get the Dynatron G17?
> 
> I personally consider P95 small FFT to be a great stress test, but sort of irrelevant for day to day stability. I would add an extra multipler. But then my data isn't very important either.
> For gaming and benchmarking I would test with less than 1 per core/ thread examples of P95 to better represent actual loads. I would also turn off Hyperthreading. It will kill the benchmark scores but might allow a higher clock speed for gaming. But I know many of you guys from the workstation thread are more serious users than I am.



Hi Retrorockit,

Actually, recently I visited Kolkata ( a city in eastern India) and found a computer dump vendor on the roadside who was selling used pc components, I got there 4 90 X 38 mm Nidac Fans, 2 of which are thermistor controlled and two were other model. I also pickup a 60 mm X 38mm server fan with very high cfm. All 5 of them for 350 INR = 5 USD. All were in good working condition.


I also got a newer T3500 ( with newer 09KPNV rev-A01 Board) for 60% price which I had paid for earlier T3500 (XPDFK) (from different vendor, of course). So I also got a W3680 for 45$ from Aliexpress.

I didnot buy Dynatron G17 because -

Summer season is almost over and ........

1) In India Dynatron G17 costs over 100 USD. That is quite an amount for a single component of a second hand pre built system.

2) I am not comfortable playing around around Heatsink mod, however (small it may be) I have never done such things before so I am kinda afraid of messing it up.

3) Dynatron 's Fins are closed from both sides for better air duct where 100% air would flow thru heatsink without any wastage, but I want some amount of air to escape towards VRM area and cool the mosfets there, (although I have not found any suitable heatsinks for vrms yet).

So in the Dell heatsink ( where dell has already made the airduct in form of HD Tray , Ram shroud and on one side is the bottom floor of the cabinet, ...............................,

I further made refinement in air duct by using some foam type material to fill 45% of gap from top side above the vrm areas tapering downwards in such a way that most of the air escaping towards vrm goes mostly downwards towards mosfets and then flows further towards the 2 80 mm back exhaust s. While on the other side of heatsink I just placed a card like material in between ram shroud and that side of heatsink, in such a way that it just stays firmly covering that side of heatsink not letting any air to escape from that side.



I also lapped the heatsink and put thermal greasely Cryonaut.

Since I had so many high cfm fans for almost free …………………..


I put 2 in place of 1 Nidac fans on the both sides of heatsink, thermistor model on exhaust side and other model in push config ...... creating a long air duct fan tunnel from the Dell Cage fans to first nidac fan then the heatsink and then the another Nidac fan with thermistor one. ( My PSU is anyway big 1000 watt corsair RM1000X , so no tension of amperage) and one 60mm X 38 mm server fan on the Northbridge.










But as soon as I booted the system there was so much noise as if I came inside the server room. So I replaced the server fan on the northbridge with a smaller and quieter 60mm X 10 mm ordinary fan , however Northbridge temp is still under control.

as regarding 2 Nidac fans on the heatsink (push-pull) , one without thermistor one (on push side) runs full rpm and is very noisy. So I need to do something about it. It has 4 wires but without any fan header. You suggest something for it.


Meanwhile till such solution arrives ......... till then I have replaced it with the one with thermistor one ........ and my system is now fully quiet that I barely hear anything. Even the Corsair PSU fan are silent one ( doesn't spin till 35-40% load).


The thermistor Fan control mechanism is really efficient one. 70% of times I hardly hear any noise. But as soon as there is any load on the system like stress/ bench tests (it is still 35C ambient here) the Nidac fan ramps up speed curve much much much before Dell Cage Fan does anything ............. even ........ before HW Monitor senses any temp increase ..... before that Nidac speeds up.


In fact now I observe that whenever Nidac ramps up speed I kinda know that now HWMonitor is going to  show temp increase and in a while it actually happens that way.................................................

Bottomline is thermistor controlled fans are very efficient system of cooling ............ Unlike Dell's shitty fan controller which doesn't speeds up even after temp hits TJ Max.

BTW, the 100$ saved was well spent on 10$ NVME Adapter + 55$ SP NVME pcie3 X 4 NVME 256 GB SSD , which in my new system, I am using to boot Windows 10 on  T3500 X58 System. Oced to 4.1 GHz during 35 C ambient and max temp durimg 30 minutes P95 stress test was 71C..


----------



## Retrorockit (Jul 15, 2019)

I have run 2 PWM fan motors off of 1 blue PWM wire. It's just a  square wave  % duty cycle signal to ground so 2 different motors sensing the frequency isn't a problem. But it's still connected to the Dell controller. Sorry to hear the Dynatron is so expensive where you are. I wouldn't spend that much either. The Dell Nidec/Delta fans can usually be found for scrap prices if you know what you're looking for. But yes a PWM fan will run 100% speed if the blue PWM wire is not connected to a proper signal. With your high ambient temperature massive airflow will be  needed for cooling. It looks like the stock cooler is still up to the task with a monster fan swap. The Themistor fan speeds up when the cooling load increases, it doesn't wait for the CPU to get hot. It will also sense the ambient temperature level. Push pull fans don't really add much. The 2 motor Delta GFB1212VHG has 2 completely different fan  configurations on the front motor and the rear motor to make a push pull fan effective.

For the guys playing with the Dell BTXs there is a picture on page 18 in the Dell Workstation Owners Club of the GFB1212VHG 2 motor fan in the TJ258 XPS cooler housing.








						Dell Workstation Owners Club
					

I've never heard of that HDD cage. But the move to 2.5" SSD has made it redundant I think. Dell's use of the big blue drive caddys always made their drive cages use a lot of space. I picked up a T7400/ Precision 690 SLI riser card installation kit for $20 NOS. Not  the card but the raised rear...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




I watched the video Mangupta posted of the increased airflow using 2 fans. Those 2 fans have exactly the design features that Delta used in the GFB series. Twice as many blades on the intake fan ,and opposite rotation. My comment that "push/ pull doesn't do much" was based on the common practice of adding another identical aftermarket fan. I prefer to use one larger more powerful fan whenever possible. Instead of running 2x 90mm fans for a total of 3 fans I would look into upgrading the 120x38mm intake fan. It will produce less noise per CFM.
 I saw a table of currrent draw for a 3.9A fan, and at 50% PWM it drew .8A. Hmmmmmmmmm.


----------



## ManGupta (Jul 23, 2019)

AMD Ryzen 3000 Undervolting Offset vs. Override | Vcore Voltage
					

We did this stock, set to 1V vcore in BIOS, and then with the best negative vcore offset we could manage, which was usually .05V. We also ran Blender and logged frequency, but the Cinebench numbers are plenty for now. -




					www.gamersnexus.net


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## Retrorockit (Jul 23, 2019)

Newer CPUs, software tweaking vs. BIOS settings, AMD Ryzen. Sure why not.


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## quentin (Aug 31, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> I'm not having any issues with my X5680 at stock. All games I have run perfectly and at 120+hz@1440P.



hey ive been reading this post and i saw u have an rtx 2080 on ur t3500. and i was wondering what psu u were running, and does  the 2080 bottleneck ur system?

i have a t3500 with an w3680 and thinking to get a rtx 2070 super will that do 100plus fps on a 3440x1440p at high/ ultra settings?


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## EarthDog (Sep 1, 2019)

quentin said:


> hey ive been reading this post and i saw u have an rtx 2080 on ur t3500. and i was wondering what psu u were running, and does  the 2080 bottleneck ur system?
> 
> i have a t3500 with an w3680 and thinking to get a rtx 2070 super will that do 100plus fps on a 3440x1440p at high/ ultra settings?


2070 super at the res + settings and  100 fps may be pushing it in some titles...


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## TechyTed (Sep 1, 2019)

Wow...I finally got a notification email saying this thread was still alive.

Good to see 
It’s been so long I forgot about posting here.  

And I’ve still got that T3500 MB, PS, CPU and RAM just sitting here. 

Need to get it in a case and start doing something with it.

The Frankenstein T5500 is still my daily driver.  Barely ever gets used enough for the fans to speed up.


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## quentin (Sep 1, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> 2070 super at the res + settings and  100 fps may be pushing it in some titles...



mm yea i bought the 2060 super and was testing it and i was geting around 60 to 70 fps in destiny 2 so i was wondering if the 2070 super wil push over the 100fps for like 100$ more, but if i buy the 2070s i need a new psu so idk if i should keep the 2060s or get the 2070s and a new psu..?


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## EarthDog (Sep 1, 2019)

Look up some reviews. 

The 2070 Super surely isnt 60%+ faster.


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## quentin (Sep 1, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Look up some reviews.
> 
> The 2070 Super surely isnt 60%+ faster.



ok thky


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 1, 2019)

quentin said:


> hey ive been reading this post and i saw u have an rtx 2080 on ur t3500. and i was wondering what psu u were running, and does the 2080 bottleneck ur system?


750W PSU, and the 2080 is not bottlenecking the system. The CPU is bottlenecking the 2080. By how much depends on the game, but is not alot in most cases. GTA5 is the worst affected(of the games in my library), however with 120+ FPS it's just not a problem.


quentin said:


> i have a t3500 with an w3680 and thinking to get a rtx 2070 super will that do 100plus fps on a 3440x1440p at high/ ultra settings?


I use dual 2560x1440p displays(only one is used for games) and, as stated above, get 120+ FPS. Keep in mind however, I never use default settings in games. Generally I completely turn off Anti-Aliasing, generally turn down shadows, and keep Aniostropic Filtering to a max of 8x depending on the game. If you go for a 2070Super and plan to use Max/Ultra settings, you should keep your expectations reasonable, especially if you plan to enable RTX/Real-Time-Ray-Tracing.


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## quentin (Sep 3, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> 750W PSU, and the 2080 is not bottlenecking the system. The CPU is bottlenecking the 2080. By how much depends on the game, but is not alot in most cases. GTA5 is the worst affected(of the games in my library), however with 120+ FPS it's just not a problem.



so can i use a non dell atx psu or do i need a dell psu for the t3500?


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 3, 2019)

quentin said:


> so can i use a non dell atx psu or do i need a dell psu for the t3500?


You can use a standard ATX PSU for a T3500, however you need one with an 8pin EPS connector plus whatever is needed for the rest of the system. If you're going with an 130w CPU(W3680 or X5680/X5690) it would be a very good idea to get 750w or better. This will allow plenty of extra power for a GPU.


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## quentin (Sep 3, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> You can use a standard ATX PSU for a T3500, however you need one with an 8pin EPS connector plus whatever is needed for the rest of the system. If you're going with an 130w CPU(W3680 or X5680/X5690) it would be a very good idea to get 750w or better. This will allow plenty of extra power for a GPU.


nice yes i had a 750w in mind because im overcklocking my w3680 to 4.1 and i want room to oc my gpu as well

the only problem is that i dont know what card i should buy the rtx 2070s or the 2060s..... 
but tnx for the help


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## rock (Sep 3, 2019)

hey guys its been a while,

so i overclocked my w3680 to 4.1 and my pc just blue screens when i ran cinebench and any idea what is causing this to happen?


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## unclewebb (Sep 3, 2019)

rock said:


> what is causing this


A BSOD when overclocking is usually caused by lack of voltage going to the CPU.  My W3680 was 100% stable at 4.00 GHz but was not 100% stable at 4.13 GHz.  If you cannot increase CPU voltage in the bios then I would only overclock to 4.00 GHz


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## rock (Sep 3, 2019)

unclewebb said:


> A BSOD when overclocking is usually caused by lack of voltage going to the CPU.  My W3680 was 100% stable at 4.00 GHz but was not 100% stable at 4.13 GHz.  If you cannot increase CPU voltage in the bios then I would only overclock to 4.00 GHz


ahh ok tnx ill keep it at 4.00


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 3, 2019)

quentin said:


> the only problem is that i dont know what card i should buy the rtx 2070s or the 2060s.....


Can you afford a 2080? If so, get one, you'll thank yourself later.. If not, the 2070super is a good option.


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## quentin (Sep 3, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Can you afford a 2080? If so, get one, you'll thank yourself later.. If not, the 2070super is a good option.



the 2080 is over my budget so ill go with the 2070s tnx for the help.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 4, 2019)

quentin said:


> the 2080 is over my budget so ill go with the 2070s tnx for the help.


You're very welcome! Enjoy!


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## dhrag5t (Oct 16, 2019)

So glad I found this forum. Throttlestop has been great for my Xeon W3690, which I managed to get to a very stable 4.13 ghz with x31 multiplier by upping the TDP to 190. Definitely breathed new life into this older T3500. 

Managed to keep temps under 70 degrees as well, as I zip-tied an 80mm Arctic F8 in a pull configuration onto the default heatsink (which was also re-applied to the CPU with MX-4 thermal compound) which then exits the fan via another 80mm Arctic F8 on the back of the case. Unfortunately they run at 100% all the time due to there being no extra 3/4 pin connectors on the motherboard for additional fans, so I had to use a cheap molex to 4x3 pin adapter.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 16, 2019)

In post #706, and #605.... I give some part # for 3 wire thermal controlled fans. They can only be used as exhaust because they self regulate based on the temperature of the air going through them. They aren't hard to find. They were used in pre PWM Pentium 4 and Pentium D Dell systems as CPU fans. Mangupta is using them succesfully in 40*C. ambient temperatures. You can spot them by the blue thermistor on the outlet side of the fan.


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## dhrag5t (Oct 17, 2019)

Quick update: Upgraded my ram to 24GB with 3x8GB 1600mhz Corsair modules. For those wondering, yes, the T3500 can take 8GB modules. They'll just run at 1333 (unless someone knows anything about overclocking RAM on this workstation). 





I think the better quality RAM (I was previously running 6 assorted hynix/samsung sticks) is what's allowed me to reach a 32x multiplier with ThrottleStop, to get to a pretty stable 4.26 GHz on all cores. I previously couldn't get Cinebench R15 to finish at 4.26 Ghz as it would crash near the end. But now it seems to be working. New cinebench: 





This has been a lot of fun! I always loved my W3690 as it's been a beast, but the past month knowing I can squeeze out even more performance on a locked OEM motherboard has definitely bought me at least another 3 years before I'll think of upgrading. And even then, with all the improvements DirectX 12 and VULKAN have made for multi-core gaming, I wonder if it can last even longer, possibly even into the mid-2020's before the CPU becomes a bottleneck for newer, more intensive games.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 17, 2019)

I think 4.26 bench stable might be a new record for this. Maybe the W3690 IS binned a little better than the W3680.
Could you do a run at userbenchmark.com? It's always fun to see a TS overclock on a locked BIOS computer there.
It really shows how the OC performs compared to regular systems.
There can be a hidden performance benefit to running high performance RAM even in a locked system. If you run PC Wizard it will show the latency you're getting at the 1333 speed. It may be much better than what's advertised at 1600, or what you had before with mixed modules. Reduced latency helps just as much as clock speed, and it's all we can hope for on these systems.


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## dhrag5t (Oct 17, 2019)

> Could you do a run at userbenchmark.com? It's always fun to see a TS overclock on a locked BIOS computer there.



Sure, here's the link.

I actually played around with it even more for this benchmark and managed to get the first core to a 33x multiplier while keeping all the other cores at 32x. System crashed and gave BSOD when I tried to get all cores up to 33x though.

Then on PassMark I got a CPU score of 10303 by pushing the first core to a 34x multiplier while keeping the rest at 32x. Ran stable at 4.2 GHz for the multi core tests and then actually bumped up to 4.4-4.5Ghz for the final stage of the test which is single threaded performance (the multiplier fluctuated between 33.3 and 33.8 so this shows the true max capacity of this locked CPU+mobo combo without changing voltages). Single thread score of 1938 beats the Ryzen 5 1600 (1818) which is one of the most popular mid-range CPU choices available right now. 

The overall score of 10,303 falls between the stock i7-6700 (at 10,003) and the stock i7-7700 (at 10,685). Incredibly impressive.





Here are the results without ThrottleStop, at the W3690 stock speeds of 3.46 Ghz with all core turbo of 3.6 Ghz and single core turbo of 3.73 Ghz. Scores 8927. Still respectable for an almost 10-year old platform but the single threaded performance suffers quite a bit.


----------



## SamirD (Oct 17, 2019)

I absolutely love seeing systems like this in the wild.  It's unreal how much power is still accessible in older systems that are basically being thrown away today because they're 'old'.  DDR4 and nvme and all that jazz sounds like an astronomical leap until you see the numbers of the system's overall performance.

This is one single thread result that always impresses me:




__





						Intel Core i5-680 @ 3.60GHz vs AMD Ryzen 5 1600 [cpubenchmark.net] by PassMark Software
					





					www.cpubenchmark.net
				




This is literally a first gen i-core processor against a much newer ryzen, and the single thread performance difference would hardly be noticed.  And the crazy thing is that I've gotten the i5-680 for as little as $10--no one has a clue of this hidden gem.   Whoops, maybe people just found out.


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## king of swag187 (Oct 17, 2019)

Nearly 4x the performance for 5x the price. Not bad for both of them.


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## dhrag5t (Oct 17, 2019)

> I absolutely love seeing systems like this in the wild. It's unreal how much power is still accessible in older systems that are basically being thrown away today because they're 'old'. DDR4 and nvme and all that jazz sounds like an astronomical leap until you see the numbers of the system's overall performance.



x58 might be Intel's most legendary platform of all time. It's aged so well and can still handle almost everything you throw at it. The triple channel RAM has allowed it to stay relevant even in 2019. 6 cores and 12 threads was viewed as overkill back in the early 2010's when they released, but now it's able to easily keep up with the latest mid-range offerings from both Intel and AMD. On unlocked motherboards, it's possible to get most 1366 CPU's up to 4.4 or 4.5 Ghz on all cores which is absolutely fine for almost all of today's productivity software and gaming. 

And if you get extremely lucky and find an EVGA SR-2 motherboard for cheap (it's incredibly rare and expensive because it supports dual CPU's), you could build a monster 12 core, 24 thread rig with dual x5690s and get both of them up to around 4.4/4.5Ghz:


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## EarthDog (Oct 17, 2019)

dhrag5t said:


> x58 might be Intel's most legendary platform of all time. It's aged so well and can still handle almost everything you throw at it. The triple channel RAM has allowed it to stay relevant even in 2019. 6 cores and 12 threads was viewed as overkill back in the early 2010's when they released, but now it's able to easily keep up with the latest mid-range offerings from both Intel and AMD. On unlocked motherboards, it's possible to get most 1366 CPU's up to 4.4 or 4.5 Ghz on all cores which is absolutely fine for almost all of today's productivity software and gaming.
> 
> And if you get extremely lucky and find an EVGA SR-2 motherboard for cheap (it's incredibly rare and expensive because it supports dual CPU's), you could build a monster 12 core, 24 thread rig with dual x5690s and get both of them up to around 4.4/4.5Ghz:


Dude....

1. Triple channel RAM and its bandwidth has little to nothing to do with things.
2. That CPU cannot remotely keep up with the same core/thread count CPUs on any front.
3. While the clock speeds are nice, those CPUs are like 50% behind in IPC. If you game on it at 1080p with any decent card, there is a glass ceiling severely limiting FPS. Now, you can still manage a decent experience, don't misunderstand me, but you are neutering any mid-range+ card and the experience can suffer.

They were good, but now these are quite long in the tooth for most.


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## SamirD (Oct 17, 2019)

king of swag187 said:


> Nearly 4x the performance for 5x the price. Not bad for both of them.


Yep, solid value for either one depending on what you need.  If you don't need cores, you can go with the cheaper.



EarthDog said:


> Dude....
> 
> 1. Triple channel RAM and its bandwidth has little to nothing to do with things.
> 2. That CPU cannot remotely keep up with the same core/thread count CPUs on any front.
> ...


1.  Memory bandwidth is important no matter what the platform, so it's completely relevant.
2.  4 core cpus still exist on the low end, so absolutely still relevant hardware--just not anywhere near the top.
3.  IPC is lower for sure, and that's the biggest drawback, but no one is going to be trying to do 4k vr on one of these.

If money is no object, of course top of the line will be the best.  That's like saying that a McLaren MP4 is faster than a Ford Focus--of course it is--but how much does the McLaren cost?  When you've got money out the wazoo, it doesn't matter--when you're looking bang for buck, these type of systems are quite impressive for how little they cost, especially when overclocked and tuned, and they can compete head-to-head with some of the best values present today.


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## EarthDog (Oct 17, 2019)

SamirD said:


> 1. Memory bandwidth is important no matter what the platform, so it's completely relevant.


1. Nope. Back when it was released, it showed nearly zero difference in gaming and most tasks. That still holds true.
2. I didn't mention a thing about low core count CPUs. A 4c/4t CPU also places a glass ceiling on any titles which can use more.. and these days, there are quite a bit out.
3. The higher the resolution, the less a CPU matters. Since people using this old stuff are likely running 1080p, or perhaps lower, this puts a lot of honus on the CPU. Few are trying 4K VR on X58...

I disagree these are worth it even in the bang for the buck category. You can grab a i5-8400 and be better off performance wise than two of those CPUs in gaming... and potentially in multi-threaded benchmarks.

I mean, I get it.. I hear you... but they simply cannot compete head to head on the performance front (again when matching core and thread count). I would push HARD to any user thinking of this as opposed to going modern. 

I digress.


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## SamirD (Oct 17, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> 1. Nope. Back when it was released, it showed nearly zero difference in gaming and most tasks. That still holds true.
> 2. I didn't mention a thing about low core count CPUs. A 4c/4t CPU also places a glass ceiling on any titles which can use more.. and these days, there are quite a bit out.
> 3. The higher the resolution, the less a CPU matters. Since people using this old stuff are likely running 1080p, or perhaps lower, this puts a lot of honus on the CPU. Few are trying 4K VR on X58...
> 
> ...


1.  Memory bandwidth is always relevant--how do you think the data gets back and forth from the cpu?
2.  Gaming?  Oh yeah, this type of set up isn't going to be great for much gaming.  I don't disagree there.
3.  Wait, so then why would 1080p with a 1080Ti put strain on the cpu?  Besides, this particular cpu is a xeon, so no igpu.

The passmark results above are on almost on par with an i5-2500k, which with a 1070 still can be a gaming system.  Such a system with the 1070 can be put together for literally $300 complete.  An i5-8400 cpu alone is $200, and by the time you build out the system it will cost 2x as much.  Will it have 2x the performance?  Possibly in gaming, but you paid 2x too.

You don't get it if you're pushing someone hard to not go modern.  If you have limited cash, you can't think modern, but have to think value.  I know places to pick up full i5-2500k systems for $50.  Add a $100 used 1060 and you've got a gaming system cheaper than even the cpu on an i5-8400 build.  Overclock the 2500k and the performance difference becomes even slimmer:




__





						Intel Core i5-8400 @ 2.80GHz vs Intel Core i5-2500K @ 3.30GHz [cpubenchmark.net] by PassMark Software
					





					www.cpubenchmark.net


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## EarthDog (Oct 17, 2019)

1. Check out some benchmarks, friend. 
2. That is mostly what I was saying. But it's a lot slower in productivity as well.
3. Xeon/iGPU isn't remotely relevant here. 1080p is a CPU bound resolution in a majority of cases(games). This is simply fact.

Passmark is not exactly a great benchmark, but I'll play...

The 8400 is still around 25% faster in your link. At 1080p, that can make a difference in 1080p gaming. That CPU would need to be well past 4.5 GHz to match the 8400 (which you can also lock all c/t to its turbo clock). Please look at some reputable benchmarks. What I'm sharing is all out there. 

In the end though, if you have $150 to try and build a PC, what the heck CAN you do but buy generations old hardware? It is what it is... but throw a little budget at it, and the experience can be quite a bit better. I do understand what you are saying though.


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## SamirD (Oct 17, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> 1. Check out some benchmarks, friend.
> 2. That is mostly what I was saying. But it's a lot slower in productivity as well.
> 3. Xeon/iGPU isn't remotely relevant here. 1080p is a CPU bound resolution in a majority of cases(games). This is simply fact.
> 
> ...


1.  You need to understand system design.  If memory performance didn't matter, we wouldn't have ddr, ddr2, ddr3, and ddr4.  It's an incremental difference in overall performance if you're looking at benchmarks, but bad memory performance will seriously hurt a system--ask anyone with memory issues.
2.  It depends on what you use for productivity.  For word processing, even old 1st gen Pentiums are good enough as long as you use same-era software.  I use xp class systems with a gpu all day long for looking at high-res pdfs.  A 4ghz system would be plenty for that.  ymmv.
3.  Why would 1080p be cpu bound while other resolutions aren't?  The pixels are being moved by the video sub-system much more than the cpu.  I've seen that building my own systems over the decades and is why a gpu can make all the difference in game playable resolution.  There is an upper limit of course which is bound by what the cpu can do, but it's not as low as you think, even with modern games--just check the system requirements.  I've seen lga775 still spec'd for modern games, so you can't say that any gaming at 1080p will be completely cpu bound.  That's ludicrous.

Passmark is pretty solid for single thread performance ime.  It lines up pretty well with any other relative benchmarks.  I hope you know there is no absolute perfect benchmark.

No disagreement there, 8400 would be 25% faster.  But dollar for dollar, if playing or not playing is my particular issue, better to play with something than nothing.

Budget wise, I've built setups that cost $11k and $15k before.  I know about dealing with the bleeding edge and the unreal performance from it.  But when looking for the most for your money, you usually won't find it on that end of the spectrum, or anywhere in the upper ends.  It will be either some select stuff (like the current ryzen deals) or with stuff that has lost its value, but not its capability.  The older system in the recent posts falls into this latter category.  And I've learned over the years that this is where the deals are for the most part.  Will you be able to do everything modern?  Maybe not--but why do retro games still get played?  Because it's not the resolution, graphics, or art direction that make a game, but the game itself.  And that's what makes the gaming industry.  In recent decades it's just that the graphics have gotten better.  If one is chasing the graphics to enjoy the game, they're trying to wag the dog by the tail.


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## skizzo (Oct 17, 2019)

so I have two "classic" Mac Pro's, 2009 4,1 models. Each have been modded to identify as a 5,1 2010/2012 model.

One is running a single X5690

The other is running two X5680's

I game at 4K with a Sapphire RX 5700 XT

I think I am CPU bottlenecked in Assassians Creed Odyssey. Even at 1080p its not a constant 60FPS+ so I still play away at 4K even if avg FPS is 37
Rise of the Tomb Raider can game at 4k ultra, but has dips below 60FPS in busy scenes
Other latest and greatest games like Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Resident Evil 2 remake run like Assassians Creed at 4K....it's playable but if I want constant 60FPS+ I must go to either med/high settings, or reduce resolution to 2K and can remain on ultra settings.

My point is the XEON's systems of this period (early 2010) are still very capable today. These CPUs were $1700 when new, going for under $100 on eBay now-a-days. So if someone is still using these systems they are quite usable and upgradable still. However, I sure wouldn't recommend anyone buying into these systems today for gaming alone, perhaps more of a justification for workstation tasks. I also use my systems for audio production running Pro Tools, which is where these sort of setups really can shine. When I have to help out my parents or grandparents, someone with a modern i3 Core laptop I'm always like...wtf....how is your 2 year old laptop more painful (slow, laggy) to use than my 10 year old desktop. Then I compare the CPUs for example and realize the 10yr old XEONs are still better in comparison lol


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## Retrorockit (Oct 17, 2019)

There are newer unlocked CPUs that no one has tried to Throttlestop overclock yet. Maybe Earthdog would like to give it a try? Rumors of unlocked Xeons abound, and of course the regular Extreme CPUs can be done also.  If you don't like X58 you don't have to limit yourself to that level. I've encountered Earthdog before and personally haven't seen anything constructive from him yet. But I tend to play with retro stuff by choice. Throttlestop overclocking allows you to overclock many locked BIOS computers that are otherwise not useable for gaming. From what I've seen at Tech Yes City the newer stuff will produce higher fps scores but the X58 can hold  up the lower limit just as well which is  where games become unplayable. I'm not sure what use 300fps vs 200fps actually has if you actually play at 120.

As far as gaming with the Mac Pro, since they don't have unlocked CPUs I assume they're not overclocked either. A good TS overclocked x58 would probably game much better.

Look on the bright side. "Experts" like Earthdog who get off on bashing the old X58 workstations just help drive the price of  these computers down for the rest of us.


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## EarthDog (Oct 17, 2019)

SamirD said:


> 1.  You need to understand system design.  If memory performance didn't matter, we wouldn't have ddr, ddr2, ddr3, and ddr4.  It's an incremental difference in overall performance if you're looking at benchmarks, but bad memory performance will seriously hurt a system--ask anyone with memory issues.
> 2.  It depends on what you use for productivity.  For word processing, even old 1st gen Pentiums are good enough as long as you use same-era software.  I use xp class systems with a gpu all day long for looking at high-res pdfs.  A 4ghz system would be plenty for that.  ymmv.
> 3.  Why would 1080p be cpu bound while other resolutions aren't?  The pixels are being moved by the video sub-system much more than the cpu.  I've seen that building my own systems over the decades and is why a gpu can make all the difference in game playable resolution.  There is an upper limit of course which is bound by what the cpu can do, but it's not as low as you think, even with modern games--just check the system requirements.  I've seen lga775 still spec'd for modern games, so you can't say that any gaming at 1080p will be completely cpu bound.  That's ludicrous.
> 
> ...


1. I do. You need to understand the weight of it... read some benchmarks.
2. Yeah, if the machine is a internet and wp box, a potato would run it. Clearly we arent talking about that..seriously.
3.
Please read up on it. I dont have the time to web search the details. But you have a knowledge gap here.

It isnt ludacris at all.. again, please go find some benchmarks... there is a glass ceiling when using older cpus to game at 1080p or less. The cpu has less work to do at a higher res. Apologies I cant link...I'm mobile...so you'll have to go look for yourself.

Something is better than nothing...obviously, but that isnt the point here.

No perfect benchmarks, I agree. Some are farther from perfect than others. Pass mark isnt generally held as a good one from those in the know, however. 

Can we stop now please? We obviously disagree about some things here and it won't be resolved. You dont want look up benches and I dont have the time.njust know that thise old cpus while they will work will be notably slower than modern cpus and hold back gaming at 1080p. I also feel like I'm throwing shade on these cpus for little reason but to prove my points to a random user. Cheers.


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## skizzo (Oct 17, 2019)

to clarify, I game on Windows 10, which is running on my Apple Mac Pro. I dual boot macOS and Windows. but yes you are correct, I have stock clocks on my Xeons. It is Apple hardware I think that makes it rather troublesome to overclock (or alter in any way really), no way to get into anything similar to a BIOS setup. otherwise the CPUs are the same, the CPUs I have are the same that would go into any PC using a chipset that could take the CPU. so I'd say its not that the CPUs are locked, its the ecosystem they are installed in that is effectively locking them. The only difference is my dual CPU system requires them to be delidded where the single CPU system keeps the IHS on. I read up on overclocking these guys many years ago but it became too convoluted for me to really follow through with it. Perhaps if I revisit it now-a-days with the knowledge I've gained over the years, perhaps it wont sound so "greek" to me anymore lol. These CPUs are very competetive multi core wise, but single core they are showing their age. I do wish I could easily overclock them like on a PC system


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## dhrag5t (Oct 17, 2019)

> These CPUs are very competetive multi core wise, but single core they are showing their age.



On stock, yes, the single core performance isn't that great anymore. But an overclock to 4.2+ GHz can definitely breathe new life into it. I managed to get mine to about 4.4/4.5 on a single core with Throttlestop and the single thread Passmark benchmark results beats a Ryzen 5 1600, which is one of the most lauded mid-range CPU's in the tech community. Unfortunately not many people know about Throttlestop - even I was stuck at stock speeds on an OEM board until a few weeks ago when I discovered this forum. With the right overclock, X58 chips are still very relevant in 2019.


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## SamirD (Oct 18, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> 1. I do. You need to understand the weight of it... read some benchmarks.
> 2. Yeah, if the machine is a internet and wp box, a potato would run it. Clearly we arent talking about that..seriously.
> 3.
> Please read up on it. I dont have the time to web search the details. But you have a knowledge gap here.
> ...


I think you have invested a little too much in benchmarks.  Benchmarks don't change the tech or how things actually work.  They do, however, attempt to reveal how changes affect performance, and even then the results are still interpreted.

I don't think I have a knowledge gap anywhere when it comes to computers.  I've been in it far too long, almost from the beginning, and have seen changes in hardware that the last 10 years can't shine a candle to.  And at the end of the day, the fundamentals are still there--the instruction set, the cpu and it's paths to the rest of the system, and of course the sub-systems like memory and video that have evolved with innovations in engineering.

Someone above just posted that they can game at well over 1080p, so I don't know where you're getting this '<1080p' thing from.  Unless there's a technical flaw in the architecture, which wouldn't surprise me as there's been hiccups along the way to get us to where we are today, there is no logical or hardware reason for your statement to be true.

For me, that is the point.  The reason gaming exists today is because the price point came down.  If you had to build the $10k+ machines I was running quake on (when they weren't doing real work), pc gaming would still be a niche dominated by those of us that remember it being a niche and not mainstream.  And it still is an expensive hobby because these machines are more expensive than consoles by far, and yet the low-end is accessible to those who otherwise wouldn't be able to.  Telling everybody that you need to spend more and buy faster is just a waste of money, especially is one doesn't have it.  Recently, I'm see so many people parting out rigs because they can't afford what they bought--no gaming for them anymore.  It's like telling every new driver they _need_ to have a Ferrari to corner hard when a Miata does that quite well with stellar value.  

In the know?  Who is 'in the know' versus everyone else that reads benchmarks?  This is starting to just sound like some sort of millennial gamer elitist mantra.

I think you nailed it on the head that you're 'throwing shade on these cpus for little reason but to prove my points to a random user.'  You're not going to 'skool me' on this because I know far more than you do about the fundamentals of machine architecture, and there's several actual, real-world examples of machines that are what I would call pretty decent at the task and an excellent value doing what they can for so little invested.


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## Aaron_Henderson (Oct 18, 2019)

I still love my POS X58 system...I spent about $300 all in, a few years ago now...and haven't really done much with it since then.  Still lets me play any game I want...I've been itching to upgrade only just now because I live with roomates, and the thing is loud because of all the heat from the 290X and CPU.  I don't care about upgrading performance much...I've been planning on a W3680 for forever, just haven't really cared.  My monitor is 75Hz 1080P, most games do that with ease.  I don't know, I get 110-130 FPS in Quake Champions, the only online game I really play, and I don't get wrecked.  I do just fine.  With my $300 computer that is now worth half that...and a $30 monitor, $20 mech keyboard, $20 studio monitors, $10 aio cooler...I'm a cheapskate.  The only things I bought new were the PSU and Corsair Katar/QCK+.  Also...all prices I mentioned are Canadian...so it would be significantly less in USD.  Also, my cheap computer leaves me more money for other things I probably wouldn't have, like 15+ games consoles and decent game collection...basically more computers...nevermind.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 18, 2019)

For anyone who is interested there are several videos posted throughout this thread comparing overclocked X58 to newer CPUs with modern games used as examples. They're not specifically TS unlocked CPU systems, so results will vary somewhat, but the testing is done at several resolutions and you can decide for yourself if this is for you.
 When I was answering Dell questions at Tomshardware there were a lot of people who needed an inexpensive  computing solution that wouldn't limit them too much on what they could use it for. Young people, engineering students, people with a family to support, small business owners, a 2nd computer for the kids to use. The Dell T3500 X58 workstation still checks off a lot of boxes for a lot of people. 6C/12T, 48GB RAM, ECC support if needed, PS2 mouse support, RAID BIOS, a very simple 4GHz overclocking process, <$100 price. At that price point I doubt if 4K monitors are in the budget, or the GPU to run them. But they could be added later.


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## sepheronx (Oct 18, 2019)

Wait, is it official that ECC memory memory works on these T-3500's?


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## Retrorockit (Oct 18, 2019)

They really are workstations designed for engineering and technical applications. ECC and RAID in the BIOS.


			https://buerorechner24.de/mediafiles/Sonstiges/pdf-Dateien%20Workstations%20Spec%20Sheets%20Bedienungsanleitungen/Dell/T3500/Precision%20T7600%20Service%20Manual.pdf
		

 Dells require low density x64 RAM but ECC is good to go. Many of the dual CPU machines also have native BIOS support for SAS full duplex HDD, and SSD drives. Might need an adapter to get that on a T3500.


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## sepheronx (Oct 18, 2019)

I wanna get 32gb of 1600 ram for my t3500 but they are pricy atm.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 18, 2019)

sepheronx said:


> I wanna get 32gb of 1600 ram for my t3500 but they are pricy atm.


3 channel RAM and 32GB does not compute. 30GB (3x8,and 3x2) or 36GB (3x8 and 3x4) makes more sense. They will run at 1333 speed. ECC will add some latency also. 6x4GB 1333 ECC would probably be the most cost effective solution.


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## sepheronx (Oct 18, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> 3 channel RAM and 32GB does not compute. 30GB (3x8,and 3x2) or 36GB (3x8 and 3x4) makes more sense. They will run at 1333 speed. ECC will add some latency also. 6x4GB 1333 ECC would probably be the most cost effective solution.



Darn your right. 36

Fat fingers on phone don't work


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## dhrag5t (Oct 18, 2019)

> At that price point I doubt if 4K monitors are in the budget, or the GPU to run them. But they could be added later.



4K panels are pretty affordable now too. For around $200 you could pick up a 40-43 inch TV from Walmart. Great picture and the input lag isn't that bad either. The end of the mining craze has also resulted in a lot of cheap GPU's flooding the used market - something like a RX 580 can be found for around $100 - $120 and can run titles at 4k 30fps on medium-high settings with AA off (you don't really need it at that resolution anyways). It's a great time to be a budget PC gamer.



sepheronx said:


> I wanna get 32gb of 1600 ram for my t3500 but they are pricy atm.



Check the used market. FB marketplace, craigslist, letgo/offerup etc. A lot of gamers are upgrading to new Ryzen systems and usually will part out their old systems, so you can usually find them letting go of their older DDR3 for really cheap. I replaced a bunch of assorted 2GB and 4GB Samsung and Hynix sticks on my T3500 with 3x8GB Corsair sticks bought used off Facebook from a guy parting out his Ivy Bridge gaming rig. 

The better RAM has allowed me to get a very stable 4.26 Ghz overclock, compared with 4.13 Ghz with the mix and match RAM sticks I was running before. Small difference, but it's nice knowing you've squeezed everything you can out of an aging but still capable x58 platform.


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## Susquehannock (Oct 18, 2019)

sepheronx said:


> Wait, is it official that ECC memory memory works on these T-3500's?


Yes and no. Only unregistered (non-buffered) ECC modules or non-ECC ("regular")  for the T3500 as per the Dell owner's manual, and my own personal testing. 

Now, if you want to use registered ECC (buffered) modules which are far less expensive the T5500 with it's Intel 5520 chipset (instead of X58) is your choice. However, those require two QPI processors even in single CPU operation. None of which are known to be unlocked. So no overclocking with TS in T5500 unfortunately. All of this I have confirmed by testing in my own systems.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 22, 2019)

8GHz Dell T3500 X5675 Xeon @ CPUZ. YES THIS IS TOTALLY BOGUS!!! The benchmark score is unremarkable.
But it's nice that the bad guys took on a Dell overclock project!








						Intel Xeon X5675 @ 8083.4 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[rmqzju] Validated Dump by T3500 (2016-06-03 02:17:01) - MB: Dell 09KPNV - RAM: 24576 MB




					valid.x86.fr


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## juiseman (Oct 24, 2019)

Man, I think I'll be getting a T3500 next payday.....time to hit up ebay

Anybody had success with throttle stop with HP Z400's or Z420's with 2600's series Cpu's?


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## Susquehannock (Oct 24, 2019)

juiseman said:


> Man, I think I'll be getting a T3500 next payday.....time to hit up ebay.


T3500 are a great buy right now. I have kept an eye on pricing. 3 to 3.5 years ago a complete box could be had for $60 delivered (location dependent). Then it became widely known T3500 can be used for a gaming rig and prices approached $200. Complete boxes are back down below $80 delivered again.

Use the older low end processor they usually come with. Install an SSD, decent GPU, and Win10. Then update to latest BIOS *and* Intel chipset driver (if not already) so it's compatible with 32nm Westmeres. Now install some inexpensive used 2gb RAM modules, and $40 W3680 CPU. Easy 4.0ghz with TS. You're set. Total should be $500-$600.

Not going to keep pace with modern systems in benchmarks, obviously. Do we play benchmarks? No. Like RetroRockit said a few posts back. The difference between 200fps and 130fps is imperceivable. A lot to be said for 'good enough'. If you run into any roadblocks there are plenty of great people here and the Dell Workstation club thread to help you out.


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## dhrag5t (Oct 25, 2019)

juiseman said:


> Man, I think I'll be getting a T3500 next payday.....time to hit up ebay
> 
> Anybody had success with throttle stop with HP Z400's or Z420's with 2600's series Cpu's?



Before buying a T3500 and upgrading all the components, I'd look around the local used market for people selling their old x58 systems. The T3500 is fine but the locked motherboard will limit your overclock to 4 or 4.1 Ghz, compared with an unlocked motherboard that would allow you to change voltages to get to to 4.5 or even 4.6 Ghz if you get lucky. You'd also be able to overclock the RAM, and some x58 boards also allow you to boot from NVMe drives (AFAIK you can't do this on a T3500).


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## Retrorockit (Oct 25, 2019)

The Z400 is OK. It's an ATX layout too so case swapping becomes possible. You will want the newer 6 RAM slot board, not the early 4 slot version. A little PSU wiring mod is needed for a PSU swap. HP stayed with a 4 pin CPU connector and added a couple 12V. lines to the MB 24 pin plug. TS works through Windows. With an unlocked CPU it can raise Voltage, and multiplier.

 If you can find a deal on an unlocked X58 system that would be good. But last time I looked decent unlocked X58 bare MB were going for $150. There have been whole overclocked T3500 systems built for less than that ( minus GPU ).
Aaron_Henderson did a Z400 in this, and/or the Dell workstation Owners thread.
 As far as the Z420 goes it has it's fans as a gaming rig.








						HP Z420 Gaming Computer and Hardware Upgrade Guide - Green PC Gamers
					

The HP Z420 has all the base components to be converted in to a high end gaming computer.  HP Z420’s are a single socket Xeon based workstations.  They have a standard 400W Power Supply with an optional 600W Power Supply.  We have a video that will show you how to upgrade the power supply if…




					www.greenpcgamers.com
				



 You can look here for newer unlocked Xeons to try. None of the 2 CPU versions will be unlocked.





						Xeons with an open multiplier
					

Multiplier-unlocked Xeons according to overclocking results from HWBOT: Bloomfield: W3570 (source) W3580 (uncertain) Gulftown: W3680  W3690  Gainestown: W5580 (most probably not unlocked, despite of one CPU-Z validation; please see also...




					forums.servethehome.com


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## Susquehannock (Oct 26, 2019)

Nope. Cannot do any of that on the T3500. Too bad since bare boards go for about $40. A good X58 board would be nice. In three years I have not been able to find any deals that jumped out at me. Keeping an eye on the X58 overclocking threads the ASUS Sabertooth seem to be a popular mid-level board at about $130 current pricing. Upper end enthusiast boards like the EVGA classified and ASUS Rampage 3, among others, are going to cost $250.-$300.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 26, 2019)

Even the slightly unlocked Dell/Alienware MB bring about $100. They're made by MSI and I don't think they OC any better than the workstation. Last T3500 I bought was in a bundle with 3 other computers. Paid $80 for the 4 of them. To do BCLK overclocking you will also need 1600,or 2000 speed DDR3. The 1333 ECC DDR3 these run isn't so popular anymore. Susquehannock rescues his from the dumpster.
 But it's definitely not the same thing. Cheaper, simpler to do, and possibly more reliable due to stressing the subsystems less. Basically, overclocking locked BIOS computers is pretty much a separate hobby form normal overclocking. If you already have the good X58 stuff, and the experience to use it, there's not much reason to switch to this. But  if some Dell or HP 1 CPUworkstation lands in your lap there's some pretty good potential there.


----------



## ManGupta (Oct 26, 2019)

dhrag5t said:


> Before buying a T3500 and upgrading all the components, I'd look around the local used market for people selling their old x58 systems. The T3500 is fine but the locked motherboard will limit your overclock to 4 or 4.1 Ghz, compared with an unlocked motherboard that would allow you to change voltages to get to to 4.5 or even 4.6 Ghz if you get lucky. You'd also be able to overclock the RAM, and some x58 boards also *allow you to boot from NVMe drives (AFAIK you can't do this on a T3500)*.



I boot windows from NVME Solid State drive on Dell Precision T3500.






But if I had budget I would buy Ryzen 3950X system.

However in terms of Cost to Performance Ratio, Dell Precision T3500 is still very much relevant.


----------



## dhrag5t (Oct 27, 2019)

ManGupta said:


> I boot windows from NVME Solid State drive on Dell Precision T3500.
> 
> 
> View attachment 134991View attachment 134992View attachment 134993
> ...



Wow, I did not know that was possible. That’s actually great news as I was looking at upgrading the HDD on my T3500 to an SSD.

Could you describe the process and parts required for this? Or a link to a previous discussion on this.


----------



## ManGupta (Oct 27, 2019)

dhrag5t said:


> Wow, I did not know that was possible. That’s actually great news as I was looking at upgrading the HDD on my T3500 to an SSD.
> 
> Could you describe the process and parts required for this? Or a link to a previous discussion on this.











						[Guide] NVMe-boot for systems with legacy BIOS and UEFI board (DUET-REFIND)
					

UEFI DUET Installer - REFIND boot manager   PREVIEW      		  	    ATTENTION!   By using these files YOU WILL BE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY TYPE OF DAMAGE !!!   •  Current download link for DUET (EDK2015) with REFIND included          PROPRIETARY FILE SYSTEM       In case the OS uses some...




					www.win-raid.com
				




read page one and then from around page 20 as the info you need is on page one but it was updated at around the same time that the posts between about pages 17 - 23 were made so some of page one post dates quite a lot of what appears to come after it.


*ALL OF THE BELOW ASSUMES YOU KNOW HOW TO START AND USE THE COMMAND PROMPT!*

• 1) Open the Windows Command Prompt with "Run as Administrator" option at the same location you unpacked the DUET to (obviously).

• 2) CD into the DUET_UDK2017_REFIND folder if you haven't already.
EXAMPLE: "cd C:\DUET_UDK2017_REFIND" (without quotes). Enter.

• 3) Note down the drive letter of the USB flash drive.

• 4) Type "CreateUSB Drive_Letter: FORMAT" (without quotes).
Example: "CreateUSB.cmd K: FORMAT" (without quotes) - (K: is the drive letter of the USB flash drive.)
This command will format the selected USB flash drive and set up the MBR boot code and the Boot Sector necessary to boot DUET.

• 5) Safely Remove and Replug the USB flash drive. (crucial).

• 6) Type "CreateUSB Drive_Letter: DUET" (without quotes).
Example: "CreateUSB K: DUET" (without quotes).

• 7) OPTIONAL: REFIND BOOT MANAGER: (this is needed to "easily" boot the Windows installer)
Type "CreateUSB Drive_Letter: REFIND" (without quotes).
Example: "CreateUSB K: REFIND" (without quotes. This will copy all the REFIND files to the USB in order to have a GUI that can boot things, such as Windows).

• 8) Once done remove the USB flash drive.

• 9) Plug in the USB flash drive on the target system and set "Boot from USB" as the first option in your system's BIOS Boot order option.

Note: The Pcie NVME Adapter donot work in every pcie slot, you need to try one by one to see in which slot it is being recoganised









						3.38US $ 25% OFF|H1111z Add On Cards Pcie To M2/m.2 Adapter/pci Express M.2 Ssd Pcie Adapter M.2 Nvme/m2 Pcie Adapter Computer Expansion Cards M2 - Add On Cards & Controller Panels - AliExpress
					

Smarter Shopping, Better Living!  Aliexpress.com




					www.aliexpress.com
				





Note: You will have to do fresh install of Windows (or any other Operating System) on NVME SSD.


PS: After PCIE NVME Drive if you also add a PCIE USB3 adapter, *Your Dell Precision T3500 becomes at par with any modern system.*

Good thing about T3500 Motherboard is that it has many PCIE Slots.









						Dell Workstation Owners Club
					

I've never heard of that HDD cage. But the move to 2.5" SSD has made it redundant I think. Dell's use of the big blue drive caddys always made their drive cages use a lot of space. I picked up a T7400/ Precision 690 SLI riser card installation kit for $20 NOS. Not  the card but the raised rear...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Susquehannock (Oct 27, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> Even the slightly unlocked Dell/Alienware MB bring about $100. They're made by MSI and I don't think they OC any better than the workstation. Last T3500 I bought was in a bundle with 3 other computers. Paid $80 for the 4 of them. To do BCLK overclocking you will also need 1600,or 2000 speed DDR3. The 1333 ECC DDR3 these run isn't so popular anymore. Susquehannock rescues his from the dumpster.


That is true about 1333 modules. Watching pricing the 1600mhz modules seem to be more common and often less expensive. Might be a good option for those who want to BLCK. One thing to watch for buying cheaper T3500 boxes is the older ones came with 1066mhz modules.

Another big thing that I said before which bears mentioning for those new to the discussion is stay away from 'N series' boxes for networks.  Often priced to sell. As I understand Dell had to "windows cripple" non-windows bundled machines due to Microsoft licensing agreements. No personal experience, but Windows on T3500 N series is certainly doable. Just not easy. One way is to change the motherboard. Another is change the service tag then do a factory reset on the BIOS. This page explains the procedure.

I do get my T3500 free. Not from dumpster really. Friend at a CAD design firm diverts warranty expired hardware to me instead of the recycler. Larger companies update at end of warranty period as matter of course and cannot be bothered with trying to re-purpose or re sell. I was recently given a set of Dell/Toshiba enterprise level 4tb drives that are perfectly fine except for having a little over three year use. Would imagine recycling companies make some decent money selling things like this.


----------



## Retrorockit (Oct 29, 2019)

I came across this tidbit at OCN X58 Xeon Club.
"i7 980, 980x,990x and their counterparts W3670, 3680 and 3690 have "open" ram dividers too, you can go up to 1:18, westmere xeons are stuck to 1:10, the X5679 even to 1:8"

Since Throttlestop was originally intended for laptop undervolting maybe it's missing a setting that would allow faster RAM timings. This would help even things up compared to the BCLK method if  it's true. I suppose  the "easiest" way to test this would be a TS overclock on a an unlocked MB and see what the RAM settings can do at the stock BCLK speed.

I have no experience with RAM timings, so I'm not sure what 1:18 multiplier equals in RAM speed at the standard BCLK of 133. But 18x133= 2394 which looks like a modern DDR3 spec to me.
Also ASFIK W3670 isn't an unlocked multiplier CPU, so would not be useful for TS overcloking anyway.


----------



## bebop350 (Oct 31, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> I came across this tidbit at OCN X58 Xeon Club.
> "i7 980, 980x,990x and their counterparts W3670, 3680 and 3690 have "open" ram dividers too, you can go up to 1:18, westmere xeons are stuck to 1:10, the X5679 even to 1:8"
> 
> Since Throttlestop was originally intended for laptop undervolting maybe it's missing a setting that would allow faster RAM timings. This would help even things up compared to the BCLK method if  it's true. I suppose  the "easiest" way to test this would be a TS overclock on a an unlocked MB and see what the RAM settings can do at the stock BCLK speed.
> ...


Interesting. No experience in RAM dividers either, unfortunately, but I'm curious what potential there is with an open divider.

On the topic of RAM, I want to throw it out there that (apparently) adding RAM can increase boot time. My board now gets stuck on post for 60sec or so. Doesn't bother me, but boot time is important to some people, so I figured I'd mention it.

@unclewebb, is it possible to turn off speedstep/power savings with MSR or does Throttlestop accomplish it via a reg key in Windows? I looked through the Intel MSR doc, but couldn't find anything helpful. I'd like to stop the CPU from downclocking (some games run smoother this way) but have no speedstep option in the BIOS.


----------



## dhrag5t (Nov 1, 2019)

> PS: After PCIE NVME Drive if you also add a PCIE USB3 adapter, Your Dell Precision T3500 becomes at par with any modern system.



One last question ... what would the difference in speed be between NVME on a PCI express x4 2.0 compared with an SSD running off SATA 2? Still on the fence on if I should go with the NVME setup or just get an SSD for my T3500.


----------



## unclewebb (Nov 1, 2019)

bebop350 said:


> is it possible to turn off speedstep/power savings


ThrottleStop has an option so you can toggle SpeedStep on or off but there is no reason to disable SpeedStep.  If you want a steady multiplier, leave SpeedStep enabled and go into your Windows Power Options and make sure the Minimum and Maximum processor state are both set to 100%.  If ThrottleStop shows your multiplier dropping when lightly loaded, you will need to go into the bios and disable the C states; C1E, C3, C6.  

ThrottleStop does not modify any registry keys.  SpeedStep can be toggled by changing MSR 0x1A0 - bit[16].  I think bit[20] in that register is the lock bit.  If the lock bit is set, you cannot change bit[16].  No need to mess around with this register.  Just use ThrottleStop instead.

Here is an example of a steady multiplier with the CPU lightly loaded.  No complaints.


----------



## ManGupta (Nov 1, 2019)

dhrag5t said:


> One last question ... what would the difference in speed be between NVME on a PCI express x4 2.0 compared with an SSD running off SATA 2? Still on the fence on if I should go with the NVME setup or just get an SSD for my T3500.



Even SATA SSD would be a great improvement over Mechanical HDD.

But NVME SSD is around 5 times faster than SATA SSD but may cost about 50-60% to 100% more.


----------



## bebop350 (Nov 2, 2019)

unclewebb said:


> ThrottleStop has an option so you can toggle SpeedStep on or off but there is no reason to disable SpeedStep.  If you want a steady multiplier, leave SpeedStep enabled and go into your Windows Power Options and make sure the Minimum and Maximum processor state are both set to 100%.  If ThrottleStop shows your multiplier dropping when lightly loaded, you will need to go into the bios and disable the C states; C1E, C3, C6.
> 
> ThrottleStop does not modify any registry keys.  SpeedStep can be toggled by changing MSR 0x1A0 - bit[16].  I think bit[20] in that register is the lock bit.  If the lock bit is set, you cannot change bit[16].  No need to mess around with this register.  Just use ThrottleStop instead.
> 
> Here is an example of a steady multiplier with the CPU lightly loaded.  No complaints.


Thank you for the detailed explanation, I really appreciate it. Sorry I should have mentioned again that I'm on Linux and cpufreq doesn't seem to work with my board, which is why I'm curious about MSRs. But I appreciate the refresher on Windows power options as well, I haven't used it in awhile. 

Writing to certain bits in a register still confuses me, to be honest. I'd think it would be "wrmsr 0x1a0 0x0", but I see here it's suggested to use "wrmsr 0x1a0 0x4000850089"; indeed "rdmsr 0x1a0" outputs "850089". I'll give it a go on a flashdrive OS (in case I break something), this weekend hopefully. Thanks again!

Wow 5GHz , very nice.


----------



## unclewebb (Nov 2, 2019)

@bebop350 - The proper way to change an MSR is to do a read - modify - write.  First you need to read the MSR to find out what is in there.  Each bit in this register means something different.  Doing a wrmsr 0x1A0 0x0 would clear everything in this MSR.  You do not want to do that.  You just want to modify (clear) bit[16] to disable SpeedStep.

If the initial value is 0x850089, that means SpeedStep is enabled.  To disable SpeedStep, you need to wrmsr 0x1A0, 0x840089

That should work in Linux or Windows.  Both operating systems use the same CPU.  



bebop350 said:


> Wow 5GHz


It was just an unstable suicide run but it makes for a nice screenshot.  
My first ever trip to 5 GHz.  I love this old technology!


----------



## bebop350 (Nov 2, 2019)

unclewebb said:


> @bebop350 - The proper way to change an MSR is to do a read - modify - write.  First you need to read the MSR to find out what is in there.  Each bit in this register means something different.  Doing a wrmsr 0x1A0 0x0 would clear everything in this MSR.  You do not want to do that.  You just want to modify (clear) bit[16] to disable SpeedStep.
> 
> If the initial value is 0x850089, that means SpeedStep is enabled.  To disable SpeedStep, you need to wrmsr 0x1A0, 0x840089
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to explain that. I gave it a shot but unfortunately the CPU still downclocks. Maybe the lock bit is set? Although I verified that it changed MSR 0x1A0 properly. BIOS is set to C1 only, not sure if I have to disable that, will have to try that next.


----------



## dhrag5t (Nov 2, 2019)

unclewebb said:


> @bebop350 - The proper way to change an MSR is to do a read - modify - write.  First you need to read the MSR to find out what is in there.  Each bit in this register means something different.  Doing a wrmsr 0x1A0 0x0 would clear everything in this MSR.  You do not want to do that.  You just want to modify (clear) bit[16] to disable SpeedStep.
> 
> If the initial value is 0x850089, that means SpeedStep is enabled.  To disable SpeedStep, you need to wrmsr 0x1A0, 0x840089
> 
> ...



5GHz is absolutely incredible for x58, even if it was an unstable run. I'm stunned the PC didn't immediately blue screen. On my W3690 I tried pushing the multiplier to 33x (basically 4.4 Ghz) and it crashed as soon as I opened up Chrome.


----------



## unclewebb (Nov 2, 2019)

bebop350 said:


> unfortunately the CPU still downclocks


Disabling SpeedStep is the cure all for everything but it rarely needs to be done.

There is a lot of inaccurate monitoring software on the Windows side.  Not sure about Linux.  I know there is some Linux software that reports C state residency time.  This is the most likely problem. 



dhrag5t said:


> On my W3690 I tried pushing the multiplier to 33x


The 5 GHz screenshot was a little off topic.  That was obtained on a board that allows adjustable CPU voltage.  Give these CPUs lots and lots of voltage and the sky is the limit.  That is why good used X58 boards still sell for ridiculous prices on EBay.


----------



## bebop350 (Nov 2, 2019)

unclewebb said:


> Disabling SpeedStep is the cure all for everything but it rarely needs to be done.
> 
> There is a lot of inaccurate monitoring software on the Windows side.  Not sure about Linux.  I know there is some Linux software that reports C state residency time.  This is the most likely problem.


Software monitoring seems to be at least as bad on Linux. So, it sounds like you're indicating it's a software or C state issue if I understand you correctly. I was mistaken, no C state control in the BIOS after all, the only power option is ACPI Suspend Type S1 or S3. Oh well, it was worth a shot, I appreciate the help.


----------



## Retrorockit (Nov 5, 2019)

I have a user at OCN who wants to run Windows 2000 Pro. He  says that OS only supports 2 core CPUs. The best CPU for a system like he wants is an X6800.
I was wondering if Throttlestop can work on an OS that old? TS4.00 maybe?


----------



## Arctucas (Nov 5, 2019)

Can anyone explain this to me?


----------



## unclewebb (Nov 5, 2019)

@Arctucas - PL1 is the long term turbo power limit.  PL2 is the short term limit.  Not sure why but when PL1 or PL2 is the cause of throttling, EDP OTHER under the RING section usually lights up at the exact same time.

Check your bios or click on the TPL button in ThrottleStop and see what your turbo power limits are set to.  At default settings, some PL1 throttling is not unusual.  Usually when overclocking, most motherboards increase the power limits sky high so they do not interfere with maximum performance.  I think Asus usually sets PL1 and PL2 to 4095. 

A yellow box in ThrottleStop just shows that some throttling took place.  This might have happened during boot up, before the bios set the power limits.  Yellow boxes are not a problem.  A red box indicates that throttling is in progress.  That is a problem.  Open up Limit Reasons when testing and see if anything is red.  Put a load on your CPU and post some screenshots.  You can click on the CORE, GPU and RING headings to clear this throttling information out of the CPU.  Good to do that before you start testing.

@Retrorockit - I have not run any version of ThrottleStop on any version of Windows 2000.  I doubt ThrottleStop 8.70.6 will start up when using Windows 2000 but an older version of ThrottleStop like 6.00 or 4.00 might work OK.  As long as it starts, it should work correctly.


----------



## Arctucas (Nov 6, 2019)

@unclewebb,

Apparently, my VCore and VCCSA were a bit low.

Thanks


----------



## Nisargadatta (Nov 9, 2019)

Hey guys,

When I'm stress testing my w3680 on a HP Z400 with throttlestop, C0% will be at 100% but sometimes throttles down and seems to affect my score. Is C0% supposed to throttle in this manner?


----------



## unclewebb (Nov 9, 2019)

@Nisargadatta - The important number to watch in ThrottleStop is the multiplier (FID column).  Increase the turbo power limits TDP / TDC so when fully loaded, the CPU is not dropping the multiplier.

The C0 number represents what percentage of time the CPU is in the C0 state working on a task.  If you are using the built in TS Bench test, it is normal for the C0% to drop slightly just before finishing.  If you run an 8 or 12 thread test, the TS Bench will initially divide the calculation up into 8 or 12 equally sized jobs.  As individual cores or threads finish their task, the C0% will drop as that thread is no longer active.  It would be unusual for all threads to finish at the exact same time so the drop in C0% near the end of this test is normal.  C0% should not be dropping in the middle of a test.

What sort of multiplier are you running?  My W3680 was 100% stable at 30X but not quite 100% stable at 31X.  The voltage is limited on these motherboards so most of these CPUs will not run reliably any faster than that.


----------



## Nisargadatta (Nov 9, 2019)

Thanks for the quick reply, good to know a little more info on how the ts bench works.

Same 30x  multiplier 100% stable, actually bought the w3680 thanks to a post you replied to over on Linus' forums.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Nov 12, 2019)

I wish I was more capable with electronics...I wonder if for a lot of these boards, there could be a volt mod done to increase vcore a bit.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 12, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> 1. Triple channel RAM and its bandwidth has little to nothing to do with things.


Benchmarks would disagree with you. I've done testing on X58 that shows a 43% increase from dual channel to triple channel. This translates into a very important performance increase for many applications.


EarthDog said:


> 2. That CPU cannot remotely keep up with *modern CPU's *the same core/thread count on any front.


Is that what you meant? If so, it depends on what you're doing.


EarthDog said:


> 3. While the clock speeds are nice, those CPUs are like 50% behind in IPC.


Again that depends on what being compared. If you are comparing a $60 X5680 to a $600 i7-7800x Then yeah, the IPC difference is going to be there, but at what cost? These S1366 based systems offer excellent vlaue in performance/cost ratio. And 1366 CPU's are very overclockable so there is additional value to consider.


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 12, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> Benchmarks would disagree with you. I've done testing on X58 that shows a 43% increase from dual channel to triple channel. This translates into a very important performance increase for many applications.
> 
> Is that what you meant? If so, it depends on what you're doing.
> 
> Again that depends on what being compared. If you are comparing a $60 X5680 to a $600 i7-7800x Then yeah, the IPC difference is going to be there, but at what cost? These S1366 based systems offer excellent vlaue in performance/cost ratio. And 1366 CPU's are very overclockable so there is additional value to consider.


1. In what? You know better than to come in here and drop a figure and not support it. Surely something responds well, but not a lot at all.. Also, context, see what I responded to in order to frame my response.
2. Of course it does... but read what I responded to nearly 1 month or so ago...
3.  ???? Between an i7 920 ($300+ new) vs a 10900x at $600, the ipc difference is night and day, at least 50% ipc improvement..not to mention the clockspeed differences.) Which makes it a ton faster.

The whole point is no matter how many cores and threads you throw at that old platform or how much bandwidth it has, it's still MUCH slower than modern counterparts due to the clockspeed difference and IPC. Triple/quad channel ram Cleary isnt making it up. Remember, scope...context... who I replied to. 

Heres a good read - https://www.pcworld.com/article/298...e-shocking-truth-about-their-performance.html



> I’m sure that somewhere out there beneath the pale moonlight, there’s a task or benchmark that truly pays the dividends you’d expect by doubling the available system bandwidth, but I’m not seeing it here.


----------



## Retrorockit (Nov 13, 2019)

Aaron_Henderson said:


> I wish I was more capable with electronics...I wonder if for a lot of these boards, there could be a volt mod done to increase vcore a bit.


 There is a Volt mod possible. It's the same as the one for GPUs. I haven't done it myself but you find the V. Sense pin on the VRM controller chip and you install a variable pull down resistor to GRD from that pin so the VRM "thinks" the Voltage is lower than it actually is. You also need to install a digital Voltage display to measure ( perhaps on one of the VRM chokes) the actual Voltage achieved because the VRM will adjust the Voltage so the MB will "think" it's still at the original setting. There is an art to selecting the correct value for the resistor. I think >20x,<50x the resistance to GRD on that pin keeps it from pulling the idle voltage up too high but gives enough sensitivity to the adjustment to be practical. On LGA775 the Vcore table for the CPU ends at 1.600V. and any Voltage detected over that shuts down the VRM. Some aftermarket boards allow higher Voltages, but not per Intel specs. This mod not only raises the Voltage but spoofs the sensor too. I never looked into it for LGA1366.


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 1, 2019)

I came across this Dell T3610 overclock with an unlocked Xeon E5 1650 v2 at 4.2 Ghz with a GTX 1080.


			Dell Precision T3610 Performance Results - UserBenchmark
		

So no need to troll this thread for being X58 groupies.
You could probably save some money on the RDIMM 4 channel DDR3 RAM. The PSU is proprietary on these but 685W was an option which seems adequate. Even the single CPU versions of the Dell T36xx workstations use the multiple CPU chipsets and workstation RDIMM memory.
I didn't shop around, just looked at one of the usual suspects.








						Dell Precision T3610 Intel Xeon E5-1603 2.80ghz 16gb 1tb QUADRO 600 Workstation for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Dell Precision T3610 Intel Xeon E5-1603 2.80ghz 16gb 1tb QUADRO 600 Workstation at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				



That CPU is 4C/8T. Appears to be an i7-4820K analog.


			http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/2013091401_Intel_Xeon_E5-1600_v2_and_E5-2600_v2_CPUs_launched.html?PROCESS=Read+more
		

...
In researching this system I'm finding that it doesn't require RDIMM, or even ECC RAM. This saves some latency on both counts and allows low latency gaming RAM DDR3 1866 UDIMM to be run. This may limit you to 4x8GB Modules But 4 channel DDR3 1866 is about as good as it gets.
Here is some 8GB DDR3 1866 CAS7 RAM









						NEMIX RAM SILVERLINE 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1866 (PC3-14900) PC GAMING MEMORY - Newegg.com
					

Buy NEMIX RAM SILVERLINE 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1866 (PC3-14900) PC GAMING MEMORY with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 17, 2019)

Not much news for this thread so I'm gonna go Retro here.
 If you have a T3500 and no money for a W series unlocked 6 core CPU. There are the 4 core 45nm W3570 W3580.
Now here where it gets tricky. In Throttlestop you can text edit it to only overclock 2 cores. For old single thread games this could give considerable punch to these old $20 CPus.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Dec 17, 2019)

There is still potential for TS+SetFSB overclocking on the Z400 boards...I confirmed SetFSB on Z400, but I don't have the system anymore...built it for a gf I've since split with.  I can't remember how far SetFSB went, and I didn't do a lot of testing...but I'd like to get another board and continue with it.  Who knows when I'll get around to that though...if anyone in this thread has a Z400 and an unlocked CPU, and would like to try TS-SetFSB.  What other boards are out there that do TS+SetFSB?


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 17, 2019)

Just about any 1 CPU workstation can run an unlocked CPU of some kind. That and Windows gets TS working. SetFSB ended development a long time ago. It's PLL dependant. Not sure how new it gets but I think I've seen 2 CPU T7500 done that way. But w/o Voltage control it only goes so far.
Do you still have the T3500 W3570 in your sig.? And the wonky 10GB x3 channel RAM! Perfect!
Who knows- run a 2nd TS and try to under clock the other 2 cores. I don't think you can split the MB Voltage but the multiplier might work.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Dec 18, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> Just about any 1 CPU workstation can run an unlocked CPU of some kind. That and Windows gets TS working. SetFSB ended development a long time ago. It's PLL dependant. Not sure how new it gets but I think I've seen 2 CPU T7500 done that way. But w/o Voltage control it only goes so far.
> Do you still have the T3500 W3570 in your sig.? And the wonky 10GB x3 channel RAM! Perfect!
> Who knows- run a 2nd TS and try to under clock the other 2 cores. I don't think you can split the MB Voltage but the multiplier might work.



There isn't a ton of information on PLL numbers from different motherboards, I have basically tried SetFSB on every locked motherboard I've had in my hands, but it's been a few years since I had a closet full of motherboards...I haven't been doing much in regards to PCs...but I've definitely had success with, though that was back in the 775 era.  And I definitely still have that same setup, the W3570 with 10GB of RAM...the fans of the GPU died at some point, so it now has 3 x 80mm server fans zip tied to it, and the $10 AIO I was using died and almost killed me PC, so that's gone and a Deepcool Gammax 400 (I think) is on it.  I really only do basic stuff and gaming with it, but it's been my main workhorse for quite awhile now with zero headaches except for the aforementioned fans and AIO liquid cooler.


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 18, 2019)

There is a virus warning at the SetFSB site. But I just unplug my HDD/SSD and boot a Linux Live DVD and go there anyway.
I used to get ransomware when running like that LOL. Reboot-gone. Did you learn how to hex edit setFSB to remove a locking bit on the PLL? My Opti 380 X5470 only goes about 4MHz before it locks up. I have a bout .25V. headroom to play with if I can get the PLL unlocked. I need to change the TME locking bit from high to low (<7). But exactly how that's done IDK. One use for SetFSB would be to lower the fsb enough to add 1 multiplier extra then raise it back slowly for an incremental OC that TS won't allow. That should be possible even with a TME lock.

I did some "monkey see monkey do" hex editing in Setfsb. Didn't help the overclock. But I changed the wrong register once and crashed my network connection. Either that or my ISP decided to go down for a couple hours right then.  Switch from cable router to DSL/ wifi and a different computer didn't help. Then it came back up later. Had to switch it all back. But I made some progress on learning "how" to change "stuff"." What" and "why" not so much.
There's a very good reason I didn't start a PLL overclocking thread. Actually there are quite a few.

Here is a datasheet for a common Dell PLL chip on some of the newer LGA775 and maybe X58 stuff. IDT#
CV183-2APAG


			https://www.idt.com/us/en/document/dst/cv183-2a-datasheet
		

It latches the TME pin4 Hi at power on which sets an FSB limit of 333 ( I get 342 before it crashes) . But the value it latches to can be as high as 400FSB. So TME off may need to be done in BIOS, or a hardmod. But perhaps RW everything could mod the FSB limit to 400? I can "kind  of" read this stuff. But what to write and where is another matter. But here it is if anyone wants to take a shot at this.

I looked at the datasheet and was reading the settings in Setfsb to be sure it was matching my interpretation of things.
The TME pin is read only and latched at power on, so short of a hardmod it's gonna be there. But the TME fsb Limit setting isn't latched to be read only until "confirmed power good". There is a setting for 400fsb. I think I've  determined what needs to change and where, and when. But I've handed it off to the BIOS modders to see if they can make it happen. The G41 chipset may not be able to actually go 400fsb, but it can probably do more than 342.


----------



## Aaron_Henderson (Dec 19, 2019)

I haven't done anything with SetFSB for quite awhile, but I definitely don't remember doing any hex editing.  I didn't necessarily use it for overclocking in the way you might think...I'd use it along with pin-modded 45nm 775 CPU and OEM locked BIOS...the general method was pin-mod to a FSB that was past the stability point, and then use SetFSB with a script to load before anything else in Windows to dial back the FSB to where it would be stable.   I think it was the E5800 that worked the best in this scenario...going from 800 to 1066 FSB goes to 4.25GHz, which was always unstable...but many of them would be stable with SetFSB dropping the FSB to where the final CPU clocks would end up between 3.75-4.2GHz...there were other scenarios, but most of them were similar with a 45nm 775 CPU and OEM motherboard.  Like I said...it's been awhile...I had to look up the E5800 clockspeeds just to be sure.  I used to sell PC I salvaged from the dump and this was my go-to on OEM 775 boards that didn't have quad support.


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 19, 2019)

I have no good experience with Setfsb because my E520 was TME locked to 266fsb  period. TS is the only thing that got me anywhere with that one, and it's so easy. My Opti 380 came with an E5800 and I tried a pinmod and failed. Tried a QX9650 hoping for TS overclock,  but it didn't boot. Went straight to the X5470 Xeon swap. The E7500 goes from 2.93 to 3.66 with a pimod from 266 to 333. E7600 would go 3.8 I think but usually doesn't have the Voltage. Some of the notebook guys get into TME unlocks and I kept seeeing screenshots of and descriptions of hex edits. But I didn't understand any of it. Reading the datasheet, and looking at the registers on screen has given me some understanding ( I hope) of how the PLL gets set up by the BIOS. But the settings that effect the FSB are all latched to read only status. The only ones I can change are the ones I probably shouldn't. So I handed this off to the guys who can mod Dell BIOS files. The G41 chipset will probably limit results on this computer, but that PLL chip was used in opti 780,760, XPS420,T3400,with other chipsets including X38 which has hidden 400fsb support. Any way now I think I can use Setfsb to read a PLL and see if there is a TME lock applied, and what the FSB limit is set at.

The last post here is where I got permanently banned from an " Extreme" overclocking forum for using Throttlestop to overclock a Dell.





						General: Overclocking a Dell - Page 6 - EXTREME Overclocking Forums
					

Page 6- General: Overclocking a Dell Essential Tutorials, Guides, & Info



					forums.extremeoverclocking.com
				



No explanation to me or anyone else.
But they left the post up and the CPUZ link to the successful Dell overclock. I guess I got the last word on that subject.


----------



## OEMOC (Dec 23, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> The last post here is where I got permanently banned from an " Extreme" overclocking forum for using Throttlestop to overclock a Dell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's sad to see that a community of overclocking enthusiasts would ban you for sharing information. I'm always looking for more tricks to acquire free performance so I bounce from threads such as these to Russian bios modders looking to see what people are able to turn up through experimentation.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 23, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> The last post here is where I got permanently banned from an " Extreme" overclocking forum for using Throttlestop to overclock a Dell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They did that to a few people. In protest I sent one of the staff a very carefully worded message. Only been back to the site once in a while to lurk a little bit. There were a bunch of users that left. Shortly after the banfest the site began to hemorrhage users and visitors. It's a mere shadow of what it once was. That's what happens when mods are allowed to run rampant without any oversight..


----------



## OEMOC (Dec 24, 2019)

Could someone be so kind as to reupload SetFSB and share the link please? Retro's talk about the site throwing up virus warnings has me not wanting to get it from there.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 24, 2019)

OEMOC said:


> Could someone be so kind as to reupload SetFSB and share the link please? Retro's talk about the site throwing up virus warnings has me not wanting to get it from there.


The following is the newest version of the demo available, as far as I know;








						Download SetFSB 2.3.178.134
					

Download SetFSB - Quickly gain thorough details about your CPU and push it to the limits for extra performance with this powerful benchmarking utility




					www.softpedia.com
				



Being a demo, it has limitations.

The following is the newest version of the free version available, again as far as I know;








						Download SetFSB  - MajorGeeks
					

SetFSB allows to change your computer's Front Side Bus (FSB) speed. The utility supports a wide range of chipsets and is easy to use. Just move the slider to set the desired FSB speed and see the...



					www.majorgeeks.com


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 24, 2019)

OEMOC said:


> Could someone be so kind as to reupload SetFSB and share the link please? Retro's talk about the site throwing up virus warnings has me not wanting to get it from there.



You can get the software OK, it's the developers PLL list that's suspect.


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 26, 2019)

I posted the data sheet for the Dell 2 CPU PLL chip in a thread at OCN.. I saw some settings with a raised fsb and straps for good bus speeds on page 1. There may be some potential for an EVGA SR2 clone. But it will take someone more programming capable than myself to make it happen.


			https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/446250/IDT/932S421BGLF.html
		









						How To : Overclocking Dual Xeon Dell Precision T7500
					

I hopefully have a source for either pc3-12800 or pc3-14XXX, going to try putting some higher binned memory in and see if I get anything more out of it, will report back. Im running hynix pc3 10600 cl11 1.5v currently I believe.  Nice man yeah let know, yeah i get 3563mhz a core on mine x5675 x2




					www.overclock.net


----------



## nathna (Dec 31, 2019)

I have a Dell Precision T3610 with a e5-1660 v2 and am wanting to try and overclock it. 
I have tried to overclock it with Throttlestop but it seems like it is locked. 
There is no fiver option and under Turbo Ratio limits it says "Turbo Overclocking Locked". 
It will not turbo up from 3.7 to 4.0 either. 

Was wondering if anyone had any information or ideas. 

Specs T3610
e5-1660 v2
64gb ddr3 reg ecc 1866
gtx 1080
500gb ssd
3tb hdd
685w psu


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 31, 2019)

I PM'd Unclewebb and posted the several overclocks I found. They were all 1650 CPUs which is not uncommon to use the lower speed when overclocking.
But the 1660 has several multiplier overclocks at CPUZ 47x100, and 49x100 so it looks good to go so far.








						Top 15 Highest frequencies for Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-1660 v2 @ 3.70GHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

CPU-Z VALIDATOR is the world-recognized standard for system analysis & performance validation




					valid.x86.fr
				



 The ones running at CPUZ all show what is listed as vulnerable  microcode with patches dated 2019. Intel may have locked the multiplier with the Spectre/ Meltdown patch. I'll ask at OCN about this.


----------



## nathna (Dec 31, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> I PM'd Unclewebb and posted the several overclocks I found. They were all 1650 CPUs which is not uncommon to use the lower speed when overclocking.
> But the 1660 has several multiplier overclocks at CPUZ 47x100, and 49x100 so it looks good to go so far.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!
Should I try and downgrade the bios? 








						Gyazo
					






					gyazo.com
				



Or just wait for Unclewebb to respond.


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 31, 2019)

Unclewebb would like to see some screenshots of TS on your machine. Then he can advise you.
I found several multiplier overclocks for your CPU at CPUZ and they look real. They all have flags for microcode updates. I'll have to ask around about that. You could run yours at CPUZ and if yours has the flag I would say leave it alone for now.


----------



## unclewebb (Dec 31, 2019)

nathna said:


> "Turbo Overclocking Locked".


If ThrottleStop shows that then this CPU on this motherboard is locked.  No way around this unless you can find a modified bios.

Here are the default specs for the E5-1660v2


			http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon%20E5-1660%20v2.html
		


You need to have the C states enabled to achieve these multipliers on a locked motherboard.



nathna said:


> There is no fiver option


The FIVR did not exist until the 4th Gen Haswell processors were released.  The E5-1600v2 series are long before then.



nathna said:


> It will not turbo up from 3.7 to 4.0 either.


Run a single thread TS Bench test.  While this test is running, you should see a multiplier close to 40.  You will never see the full 40 multiplier because there are always Windows backgroud tasks waking up additional cores which prevents the 40 multiplier from being used continuously.  As long as the C states are enabled and you do not have a lot of background stuff running on your computer, you should get close to 40 during this test.  Exit CPU-Z etc. when testing.


----------



## nathna (Dec 31, 2019)

unclewebb said:


> If ThrottleStop shows that then this CPU on this motherboard is locked.  No way around this unless you can find a modified bios.
> 
> Here are the default specs for the E5-1660v2
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. 
Do you think downgrading the bios would do anything?


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 31, 2019)

CPUZ is showing overclocks for the E5-1620v2 on the chart for E5- 1660v2 so more confusion there.
So the confirmations are coming up for the 1650 and 1620. Hmmmmm.
I would try running at CPUZ and see if yours has the flag for the microcode update.
Since this platform is new to me I have to figure out who to ask. Might take a while.

Finally found an actual E5 1660v2 47x100 AIDA64 screehshot. So the CPU looks good, and the Dell T3610 looks good.
We just need to figure out what's going on with yours.








						*** SOLD *** [FS]$190: Unlocked XEON E5-1660 V2 for X79...
					

CPU Information: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon%20E5-1660%20v2.html  This is practically an i7-4960X, 6 cores/12 threads.  Upgraded to a 1680-V2, so selling this.  Owned for 6 months.  Runs stable at 4.625Ghz @ 1.392v with 2333MHz 8GBx2 RAM in a Gentoo Linux server and never saw...




					www.overclock.net


----------



## nathna (Dec 31, 2019)

https://gyazo.com/fcc57484e7985c220eb0657faf49bd74 this what you are talking about? 


Retrorockit said:


> CPUZ is showing overclocks for the E5-1620v2 on the chart for E5- 1660v2 so more confusion there.
> So the confirmations are coming up for the 1650 and 1620. Hmmmmm.
> I would try running at CPUZ and see if yours has the flag for the microcode update.
> Since this platform is new to me I have to figure out who to ask. Might take a while.
> ...


----------



## unclewebb (Dec 31, 2019)

I think that we can agree that these CPUs have an unlocked multiplier and are overclockable but you need to have a motherboard and bios that allows this.  An X79 motherboard may be more than willing but the Dell motherboard might be locked.  You can go back in time and try to use older bios versions but there may not be any bios versions that allow multiplier overclocking.


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 31, 2019)

There are 4 Dell T3610 overclocks at userbenchmark.com with E5 1650v2 Xeons. Several different users.
Let us know what BIOS version  you have, and if CPUZ shows a microcode warning for the motherboard in your system.
We've been overclocking locked MB in LGA775 and X58 w/o problems. The FSB gets locked by the BIOS/PLL commands. But the unlocked CPUs have responded to TS through Windows so far. Unfortunately we don't have any T3610 experts in this forum yet.
The Dell MB is definitely locked, but so were the Dimension E520, the T3400, Optiplex 745, XPS 420 and T3500 that have all been overclocked with unlocked CPUs. HP Z400 for good measure.
 I'm waiting to see what the OCN Xeon guys have to say about this. It might take while for a reply to a kind of old thread.

What MB # do you have? I can do some searches by that and maybe see what type of overclocks are out there.


----------



## unclewebb (Dec 31, 2019)

On the 2nd Gen and up CPUs, if ThrottleStop shows Turbo Overclocking Locked then either the motherboard chipset does not support multiplier overclocking or the bios has locked this feature out. Getting around this lock cannot be done while in Windows.


----------



## nathna (Dec 31, 2019)

Retrorockit said:


> There are 4 Dell T3610 overclocks at userbenchmark.com with E5 1650v2 Xeons. Several different users.
> Let us know what BIOS version  you have, and if CPUZ shows a microcode warning for the motherboard in your system.
> We've been overclocking locked MB in LGA775 and X58 w/o problems. The FSB gets locked by the BIOS/PLL commands. But the unlocked CPUs have responded to TS through Windows so far. Unfortunately we don't have any T3610 experts in this forum yet.
> The Dell MB is definitely locked, but so were the Dimension E520, the T3400, Optiplex 745, XPS 420 and T3500 that have all been overclocked with unlocked CPUs. HP Z400 for good measure.
> ...



I was on bios version a06 downgraded to a02 and its still locked but is turboing up to 4.0 now. 








						Gyazo
					






					gyazo.com
				




Is this the microcode warning you are talking about? (Rev.0x42D >Intel SA-00233 Vulnerable)








						Gyazo
					






					gyazo.com
				




Motherboard number 09M8Y8








						Gyazo
					






					gyazo.com
				




Throttlestop picture 








						Gyazo
					






					gyazo.com


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 31, 2019)

OK That's interesting. BIOS rewind helped some.
It's probably not the microcode ASFIK.
Locked, but "unlimited" Turbo limits. Hmmmmmmm.
Turbo on all cores would be a good start I guess. You coulld try Intel XTU and see what happens.
The other piece of info. would be the PLL chip to see if I can figure out how and when it's locked. The T5500/7500 PLL has some higher FSB straps in the PLL that could be unlocked with a BIOS mod.

So far we have an unlocked CPU.
We also have some overclocked T3610 systems. FSB or multiplier method unkown so far.
Can you raise the power limits with TS or are those locked too? That would stilll be very be useful if it's FSB or XTU overclocking going on. Could be good old SetFSB for all we know now.



unclewebb said:


> On the 2nd Gen and up CPUs, if ThrottleStop shows Turbo Overclocking Locked then either the motherboard chipset does not support multiplier overclocking or the bios has locked this feature out. Getting around this lock cannot be done while in Windows.


So the E5-1660 1st gen should TS overclock OK in the T3600? Just the v2 and up have this issue? We did skip the T3600. Might have learned a thing or 2 there.
 I'm seeing no T3600 overclocks at userbenchmark.com. It looks like everyone skipped that one.


----------



## nathna (Jan 1, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> OK That's interesting. BIOS rewind helped some.
> It's probably not the microcode ASFIK.
> Locked, but "unlimited" Turbo limits. Hmmmmmmm.
> Turbo on all cores would be a good start I guess. You coulld try Intel XTU and see what happens.
> ...


I tried xtu and it seems to work just very limited options. I can move it higher then 4.3 but it just acts like 4.3 is set. So 4.3 is the max i guess. 









						t3610
					

Image t3610 hosted in Gifyu




					gifyu.com


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 1, 2020)

nathna said:


> I tried xtu and it seems to work just very limited options. Max at 4.3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If TS can raise the TDP, and TDC settings then XTU may go higher. Intel lists 1.3V. max for those. But they don't give direct control of Voltage. At least they didn't in the X58 stuff. They may have blocked the multiplier in TS but not locked down the power limits. That was it's big advantage over the other software overclocks. 4.25Ghz is what I was seeing with the e5-1650v2 so 4.3 may be an XTU overclock for your CPU.
With XTU running is the multiplier unlocked in TS?


----------



## nathna (Jan 1, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> If TS can raise the TDP, and TDC settings then XTU may go higher. Intel lists 1.3V. max for those. But they don't give direct control of Voltage. At least they didn't in the X58 stuff. They may have blocked the multiplier in TS but not locked down the power limits. That was it's big advantage over the other software overclocks. 4.25Ghz is what I was seeing with the e5-1650v2 so 4.3 may be an XTU overclock for your CPU.
> With XTU running is the multiplier unlocked in TS?


I can raise the multiplier in ts to however high i set it in xtu.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 1, 2020)

Could you do a run at userbenchmark.com to get a baseline on your overclock so far. It might be the best yet. It looks like it's allowing 1.3V. until it hits 65*C. then it drops the Voltage and throttles to 4Ghz.


----------



## nathna (Jan 1, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> Could you do a run at userbenchmark.com to get a baseline on your overclock so far. It might be the best yet.


userbenchmark.com/UserRun/23244754


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 1, 2020)

83% CPU and 97% gaming score. Pretty nice rig. I assume you have the stock cooler and fan. XTU isn't allowing an overvolt or overheat situation to occur. Hmmmmmmmm.
Try HWINFO64 and run the fan up to 100% speed and see what happens to the TS benchmark and your CPU temperatures.

I finally located an old friend BambiboomZ from Tomshardware who is an expert at workstation modding and has some XTU overclocking knowledge. He is very familiar with the T3600 T3610 Dells. He seems to have wandered off to the HP workstation forum.
Here is a sample of his work.








						z420/z620 overcklock
					

Hello, i whant to overcklock 1650 v2 in z420/z620 v2.  For start i am use XTU and it is capeble to overcklock all threads to 3.9GHz  Then i find out that if i ran ThrottleStop and set multipler to 42 after this i can increase overcklock in XTU to 42 too, and 1650 v2 work in 4.2GHz. But in heavy...




					h30434.www3.hp.com
				



I invited him to look at what we're doing here.


----------



## nathna (Jan 1, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> 83% CPU and 97% gaming score. Pretty nice rig. I assume you have the stock cooler and fan. XTU isn't allowing an overvolt or overheat situation to occur. Hmmmmmmmm.
> Try HWINFO64 and run the fan up to 100% speed and see what happens to the TS benchmark and your CPU temperatures.
> 
> I finally located an old friend BambiboomZ from Tomshardware who is an expert at workstation modding and has some XTU overclocking knowledge. He is very familiar with the T3600 T3610 Dells. He seems to have wandered off to the HP workstation forum.
> ...


I downloaded HWINFO64 and set it to max. (sounds like a tornado) And did the longest TS bench and it stayed at 4.3 for a lot longer and then slowly dropped to about 4.07 steady on all cores till the test finished. During the bench the temps were at 49-54.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 1, 2020)

Check out the link to the HP forum. Those guys have been using XTU to overclock your CPU in the Z420 workstation. HP also had a water cooler for that socket. Realize that we do engage in some speculation in this thread so the water cooler will be at you own risk. It has 5 wires, all black and IDK what does what.
HWbot is tied in with XTU and saves and shares profiles there. But cooling is a big part of going forward from here.
Dell uses powerful fans but the PWM profile is too little too late for overclocking.


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 1, 2020)

@nathna - I noticed that hyper threading is disabled so CPU-Z and UserBenchmark are reporting 6 Cores - 6 Threads.  When hyper threading is enabled, CPU-Z should report 6 Cores - 12 Threads.  Some users disable this on purpose.  Check your bios if you want to discover the other half of your CPU.

Edit - Also check msconfig in Windows.  On the Boot tab, Advanced options, make sure Number of processors is not checked and then reboot.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 1, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> Some users disable this on purpose.


True, and there are many solid reasons to do so.



unclewebb said:


> Check your bios if you want to discover the other half of your CPU.


There difference isn't that big. More like an additional 25% to 35%.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 2, 2020)

So here are the unlocked Xeons
LGA1366 Dell T3500,HP Z400 workstations and X58 aftermarket computers. 3 channel DDR3 1333.
W3570,W3580 4C/8T 45nm Nehalem             Confirmed HP Z400 Throttlestop 3.9Ghz all cores.
W3680,W3690 6C/12T 32nm Gulftown           ConfirmedThrottlestop Dell T3500 4.3GHz all cores.

LGA2011 v1 Sandy Bridge 32nm CPUs. Dell T3600, HPZ420 and X79 aftermarket computers. 4 channel DDR3 1600
E5-1620 ,4C/8T,
E5-1650 ,6C/12T,
E5-1660 ,6C/12T
Soldered heat spreaders.

LGA2011v2 Ivy bridge 22nm Dell T3610,HP Z420, and X79 aftermarket. 4 channel DDR3 1866. TIM heatspreader- runs hotter when OC.
E5-1620v2 ,4C/8T,
E5-1650v2 ,6C/12T  Userbenchmark.com has several of these @ 4.2GHz. in Dell T3610
E5-1660v2 ,6C12/T, confirmed Dell T3610 4.3GHz all cores using XTU. Stock cooling.
E5-1680v2 ,8C/16T  confirmed HP Forum, custom 3 fan H2O loop 4.7GHz XTU  47x plus 360mV.
Sometimes Throttlestop is blocked from changing the multiplier in LGA2011. Intel XTU seems to work and does control power settings. From what I've seen XTU only applies to Sandy Bridge and newer CPUs. At least the download I saw was like that. So that may turn out to be the dividing line for TS vs. XTU overclocking.
The single CPU T3610 workstation uses use the narrow ILM LGA2011 heatsink bolt pattern that the 2 CPU machines and servers use. Noctua, and Asetek make narrow brackets for some of their coolers and water block/pumps. But you need to plan for this.
---------------------------------------------------Jan. 2, 2020 addendum --------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to thank nathna for bringing his T 3610 over here and taking a shot at this. He definitenly added something to our knowledge base and helped us get beyond the X58 barrier. Finding out what doesn't work and publishing it really helps others not waste their time. Finding something that does work is of course much more fun.
I hope he gets some cooling mods going and reports back with more good news.Most games are still single thread. Ignoring HT and ramping up 1 core may have some real value there. The benchmarks love 12T overclocks (so do I) but the "real" gaming world may have other ideas.

This whole thread below is worth a read by anyone interested in software overclocking. It's an HWBot competitor with an HP workstation @ 4.7Ghz telling how it's done.








						z420/z620 overcklock
					

Hello, i whant to overcklock 1650 v2 in z420/z620 v2.  For start i am use XTU and it is capeble to overcklock all threads to 3.9GHz  Then i find out that if i ran ThrottleStop and set multipler to 42 after this i can increase overcklock in XTU to 42 too, and 1650 v2 work in 4.2GHz. But in heavy...




					h30434.www3.hp.com
				



In a nutshell- cooling matters. The lower temperature = lower resistance= higher clock at the SAME power.
The same applies to VRM. Better cooling = more power.

Don't be scared away by his over the top water loop. He put the video card in the loop also, which IMHO isn't needed.
Water has to be bigger than air to work because it's actually low tech. But a 2 fan 140x280 radiator and an Asetech pump block hosed together is about all that's needed to cool a CPU. But get a 2nd opinion on this to be sure. Don't mix different metals in a cooling loop.

Anyone who's seen my stuff on page 8,9 of this thread knows I'm a "big fan" of air cooling. But the T3610 doesn't lend itself to that ASFAIK. They went to a server heatsink footprint, and added 4 more RAM slots close to the CPU.
The heatsink uses an 80mm fan which needs high RPM to move any air and makes a bunch of noise "trying" to do it.
It's producing about the same OC result as the T3500 heatsink + random fan added.

This cooler is worth a (my $.02) look. Because it might not be too tall, and has brackets to mount either way.








						NH-U9DX i4
					

Noctua's DX line of coolers has become a default choice in high performance quiet cooling solutions for Intel Xeon CPUs. The latest i4 revision supports LGA2011 (both Square ILM and Narrow ILM), LGA1356 and LGA1366 based Xeon platforms and the 9cm model NH-U9DX i4 comes equipped with two of...




					noctua.at
				











						NH-U9DX i4
					

Noctua's DX line of coolers has become a default choice in high performance quiet cooling solutions for Intel Xeon CPUs. The latest i4 revision supports LGA2011 (both Square ILM and Narrow ILM), LGA1356 and LGA1366 based Xeon platforms and the 9cm model NH-U9DX i4 comes equipped with two of...




					noctua.at
				



The fans would hang out over the RAM slots, and Dell mounting hardware is "unique". I haven't had my hands on one of these systems so IDK what's going on inside those big ram covers. Noctua is pricey so there may be similar coolers from other brands. But the Noctua style is designed to clear ram slots. The Dynatron stuff sits low between them and tend to be very noisy in the smaller sizes.
------------------------------------------------Reply to nantha from BambiBoomZ at HP forum ---------------------------------------------
Reply to nantha from BambiBoomZ at HP forum. He's looked in here, but can't log on for some reason. I hope he tries again. He really knows his workstation modding.




BambiBoomZ
‎01-02-2020 06:25 AM

Unfriend Ignore

Re: William P from Tomshardware re: workstation overclocking thread at TPU
*William P,*

I had a look at the Throttlestop site thread re: O/C of Xeon E5-1660 v2 on Dell Precision T3610.
Although I’ve never visited Throttlestop, for some reason I'm not allowed to register to the site.

If you could relay this to nantha-  Thanks

*nantha,*

I’ve found that the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility (XTU) is very effective in overclocking the unlocked LGA-2011 Xeons: E5-1650 v2, E5-1660 v2, and E5-1680 v2, and reportedly the LGA-2011-3: E5-1650 v3, E5-1660 v3, and E5-1680 v3.
I used XTU version 5.2.0.14 (it dates to nearer to the time of the E5-v2 production) to overclock an E5-1660 v2 in an HP z420, the HP WS line similar to the Dell T3600/ T3610.

XTU is extremely easy to use as one only needs to set the multiplier value and then add voltage until the processor is stable. XTU is protective, so it will shut itself down and restart is the voltage is insufficient. I set a limit on a maximum of 1.42 volts.

In general XTU is very reliable, but I have had a very number of XTU kick-off and restarts. These always seem to happen quite near to starting the system and over time, I’ve really cut the startup menu to the minimum and plus waiting a bit longer to start work has helped.
XTU results:

*HP z420_2* (2015) (Rev 5) > *Xeon E5-1660 v2* (6-core @ 4.2GHz) / 32GB DDR3 -1866 ECC RAM / Quadro P2000 (4GB) / HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB AHCI + Intel 730 480GB (9SSDSC2BP480G4R5) + Western Digital Black WD1003FZEX 1TB / Creative SB X-Fi Titanium + Logitech z2300 2.1 speakers > 600W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit /> 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)
[ Passmark Rating = 5920 > CPU= 15129 / 2D= 855 / 3D= 8945 / Mem= 2906 / Disk= 8576] [6.12.16] Single-Thread Mark = *2322* [4.20.17]

The average Passmark single thread mark = *2124*.

There were a few failed experiments at 4.3GHz, as the temperatures in Prime 95 were too high. The Passmark Single Thread Mark was significantly improved, but as the main office system ran CPU-based renderings, and I didn’t want to pay the price then of a new z420 AIO liquid cooler- over $200, I decided to change to the 8-core Xeon E5-1680 v2 and also needed 64GB of RAM for the main system.

*HP z620_2* (2017) (R7) > *Xeon E5-1680 v2* (8-core@ 4.3GHz) / z420 Liquid Cooling / 64GB DDR3-1866 ECC Reg / Quadro P2000 5GB _ GTX 1070 Ti 8GB / HP Z Turbo Drive M.2 256GB AHCI + Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe 500GB + HGST 7K6000 4TB / Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 sound interface + 2X Mackie MR824 / 825W PSU /> HP OEM Windows 7 Prof.’l 64-bit > 2X Dell Ultrasharp U2715H (2560 X 1440)
[ Passmark Rating = 6280 / CPU rating = 17178 / 2D = 819 / 3D= 12629 / Mem = 3002 / Disk = 13751 / Single Thread Mark = *2368* [10.23.18]

A friend in the UK has a very similar system and thanks to his custom built external cooler (he’s an engineer whose company has complete high tech fabrication gear) runs his E5-1680 v2 at 4.7GHz

The second office system was another z420, used for CAD, rendering and higher resolution image editing, this time with an E5-1650 v2:

*HP z420_3*: (2015) (R11) *Xeon E5-1650 v2* (6C@ 4.3GHz) / z420 Liquid cooling / 64GB (HP/Samsung 4X 8GB DDR3-1866 ECC registered) / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB/ Samsung 860 EVO 500GB + HGST 4TB / ASUS Essence STX / Logitech z2300 2.1 / 600W PSU > Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (HP OEM ) > Samsung 40" 4K
[Passmark System Rating: = 5644 / CPU = 15293 / 2D = 847 / 3D = 10953 / Mem = 2997 Disk = 4858 /Single Thread Mark = *2384* [6.27.19]

thanks to the liquid cooling, z420_3 has the highest single thread rating of any system I’ve had. The average STM for the E5-1650 v2 is *2001*, so the improvement is very noticeable. As was the case for z420_2, it was impossible to have above a stable 4.2GHz on the original air cooling and any substantial load would kick it out of XTU. The key to the 4.3GHz success is the special HP z420 liquid cooler and the +150mV voltage is not excessive. The E5-1680 v2 requires +250Mv but that has an 85C rating as compared to the E5 1660 v2's rating of 72C.

The problem with workstations for high-load, all-core applications and also gaming is that the cases are made to be quiet and are don’t have as good an air flow as gaming cases. The GPU’s in WS are always one fan blower designs as multi-fan open GPU’s will heat the case and raise the heat load on the CPU. I’m convinced that the solution is to use an external cooler and have had for some time:
https://www.amazon.com/Alphacool-Eiswand-External-Cooling-System/dp/B01MDQMS1J/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=A...

I bought the 6-fan in push/pull /radiator /pump/ reservoir unit separately and uprated to all Copper fittings: CPU block, connectors and a pass through plate that takes a PCIe slot where the quick release fittings connect the external lines and the power.
I’ve never set it up though. I’m thinking that in a year or so, I may build a Ryzen 9 3950X (16C@3.5/ 4.7Ghz) Quadro RTX 4000 system as the single-thread performance is so astounding good over 16-cores- Passmark = 3005. The 3950X is known to need very strong cooling.

I think it would not be too difficult to build an external cooler along these lines using marine plywood and stock parts.

*BambiBoomZ*


----------



## SamirD (Jan 4, 2020)

OEMOC said:


> That's sad to see that a community of overclocking enthusiasts would ban you for sharing information.


It's sad when any community behaves like this.  I've been banned from ipcamtalk by the founder for starting a discussion about how to potentially use existing coax to form a 10base-2 network, and I've been banned from majorgeeks because the owner insisted that an inkjet printer is better than a laser and kept fighting with me about it--there are total asshats that do own forums and still get away with being total asshats.


----------



## OEMOC (Jan 4, 2020)

@nathna  Here are two cheaper, small tower cooler, alternatives to the Noctua's Retro mentioned:

120mm fan 4 heatpipe
92mm fan 6 heatpipe

I'd check online to see if it fits the socket, and then see if it would fit your tower. Tech yes city, and some Russian youtubers play with these coolers so the information may end up being on there. If you end up with one, and they fit you'll want to replace the fans as they don't move a lot of air and bottleneck the cooler's performance. If possible power the cpu fan with a molex connector as in some cases that helps take a bit of strain off the VRM and assists with overclocking (or so I've heard). *I don't have personal experience with these coolers and your Dell so you'll have to research compatibility yourself. *

Here are some heatsinks that could possibly be cut and mounted to the VRM and have a fan atop them. If such is too much work just slapping a 40-60mm fan atop the naked VRMs should help overclocking as well as extend their lifetime.

SSD heatsink that you can cut to size
Same but bigger fins
Generic 8mm heatsinks

I wish you the best in your adventures! Remember if you can get SETFSB to work on your rig each+1mhz to fsb will mean +40mhz to the cpu at boost. Even if you're only able to get +3mhz FSB stable it adds up at the higher multipliers.


----------



## nathna (Jan 4, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> Check out the link to the HP forum. Those guys have been using XTU to overclock your CPU in the Z420 workstation. HP also had a water cooler for that socket. Realize that we do engage in some speculation in this thread so the water cooler will be at you own risk. It has 5 wires, all black and IDK what does what.
> HWbot is tied in with XTU and saves and shares profiles there. But cooling is a big part of going forward from here.
> Dell uses powerful fans but the PWM profile is too little too late for overclocking.


Im not the most familiar with TS and XTU but it seems like 4.3ghz is the max for xtu any number higher is ignored and it just facilitates the 4.3.  Do you think that with cooler speeds it could go over 4.3? With the fans cranked up it does not go over 50-54 while under full load.


----------



## OEMOC (Jan 4, 2020)

nathna said:


> Im not the most familiar with TS and XTU but it seems like 4.3ghz is the max for xtu any number higher is ignored and it just facilitates the 4.3.  Do you think that with cooler speeds it could go over 4.3? With the fans cranked up it does not go over 50-54 while under full load.



It may be a TDP limit you're hitting. TS can be used to raise TDP/current limits. Lets try that first before proceeding to cooling modifications and BLCK overclocking. If you don't know how to do such @Retrorockit and/or @unclewebb should be able to help you out.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 4, 2020)

Yes there are limits to be raised. And in XTU it seems you can add Voltage directly. But you are the first one to try this System here. The ones at Userbenchmark are unknown to us. If you haven't raised the TDP limit and the TDC limit then it's hitting 130W and that's it. Your overclock is 4.3 and that's a little more than most others are getting. For gaming it may be worthwhile to just raise 2 cores and see if it goes faster. Most games are still single thread.
120mm coolers usuallly don't fit in the Delll workstations. The Ram slots being close in make that size fan just about impossible. If you join at HWBot in the XTU forum you can access other peoples XTU settings. The 92mm fan is a compromise but the 80mm fans make more noise than airflow. HWBot and Intel worked together to develop XTU.
if you get a 92mm heatsink that fits the narrow ILM here is a 92mm fan for it.
Nidec 92x38mm 132cfm fan. Just add 1.8A. 12V.  It must be pulling through the heatsink, but no PWM wire needed.
The Noctua fans are 40cfm each. and blowing in the same direction they don't add up. The 2nd one is mostly a pinwheel.
*M35105-58*


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 4, 2020)

@nathna - Did you try enabling hyper threading yet?


nathna said:


> I can raise the multiplier in ts to however high i set it in xtu.


You have to be careful when using ThrottleStop and Intel XTU at the same time.  Both programs are trying to control your CPU.  I would suggest only using Intel XTU and see how far you can get with it.  After that, exit Intel XTU and then start ThrottleStop and see if it can get you any further.  It is not wrong to run both programs at the same time but since you are not familiar with either program, it would be best to run them individually. 

When using the Set Multiplier feature in ThrottleStop, SpeedStep has to be enabled.  When SpeedStep is not enabled, the CPU will ignore any Set Multiplier changes.

The TPL button in ThrottleStop should show you what power limits your CPU are using.  When ThrottleStop and Intel XTU are running at the same time, the power limits that you have set in ThrottleStop will overwrite the power limits that you have set in Intel XTU.  If you are going to be using ThrottleStop, post a screenshot of the TPL window.


Retrorockit said:


> raised the TDP limit and the TDC limit


The 1660v2 is a different animal compared to the previous Xeon X58 CPUs.  Some ThrottleStop settings that applied to the first gen Xeons do not apply to the v2 processors.

At the moment I am thinking that either ThrottleStop running at the same time as XTU was interfering with the CPU going beyond the 43 multiplier or it might take a combination of these programs to go beyond 43.  I think in the ThrottleStop TPL window there is an adjustment for additional turbo voltage which might help out.  The X58 CPUs were limited due to lack of voltage.  There should be no limit here.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 4, 2020)

XTU has a track record with these CPUs in HP workstations. I would go to HWBot and watch the tutorials there. Definitely not trying to chase you away. We're all very interested in this project. This would be OT in the HP forum, but not at HWBot. It looks like XTU is capable of doing this, but it's going to protect you from yourself while doing it.
 At the unlocked Xeon forum there is a mention of the e5-1620 having a 43 multiplier limit.





						Xeons with an open multiplier
					

Multiplier-unlocked Xeons according to overclocking results from HWBOT: Bloomfield: W3570 (source) W3580 (uncertain) Gulftown: W3680  W3690  Gainestown: W5580 (most probably not unlocked, despite of one CPU-Z validation; please see also...




					forums.servethehome.com
				



So some CPUs seem to have this. But keep trying and see what happens. I'm seeing that CPU with higher multis at CPUZ so carry on.








						Top 15 Highest frequencies for Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-1680 v2 @ 3.00GHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

CPU-Z VALIDATOR is the world-recognized standard for system analysis & performance validation




					valid.x86.fr


----------



## Ars (Jan 4, 2020)

Hello comrades. I've got xeon e5 2650 v2(ivy bridge), and i try undervolt it using throtle stop, but voltage grayed out. What kind command should i sent to which MSR, or how can do undervolt using throtle stop?


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 4, 2020)

Ars said:


> i try undervolt it using throtlestop


Software under volting was not possible until the 4th Gen Haswell CPUs were released.  You will not be able to under volt your E5-2650v2.  You might be able to overclock it using Intel XTU.

ThrottleStop 8.70.6








						ThrottleStop (9.5) Download
					

ThrottleStop is a small application designed to monitor for and correct the three main types of CPU throttling that are being used on many lapto




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Ars (Jan 5, 2020)

Thank you, comrade! But, Why? Is cpu obey eist? How technicaly voltage changing with freqency change in eist? Is any way to gave right vid\freq tables to a v2 cpu?


----------



## ManGupta (Jan 6, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> Yes there are limits to be raised. And in XTU it seems you can add Voltage directly. But you are the first one to try this System here. The ones at Userbenchmark are unknown to us. If you haven't raised the TDP limit and the TDC limit then it's hitting 130W and that's it. Your overclock is 4.3 and that's a little more than most others are getting. For gaming it may be worthwhile to just raise 2 cores and see if it goes faster. Most games are still single thread.
> 120mm coolers usuallly don't fit in the Delll workstations. The Ram slots being close in make that size fan just about impossible. If you join at HWBot in the XTU forum you can access other peoples XTU settings. The 92mm fan is a compromise but the 80mm fans make more noise than airflow. HWBot and Intel worked together to develop XTU.
> if you get a 92mm heatsink that fits the narrow ILM here is a 92mm fan for it.
> Nidec 92x38mm 132cfm fan. Just add 1.8A. 12V.  It must be pulling through the heatsink, but no PWM wire needed.
> ...



Nidec 92x38mm 132cfm fan. Just add 1.8A. 12V. 

For 90 mm category this is the most effective CPU Fan both from cooling as well as acoustic  purpose. Best CPU fan if one do not have space for more than 90 mm fans.


----------



## Ars (Jan 7, 2020)

Is throtle stop can change voltage on sandy bridge / ivy bridge notebook cpu, or it just useless aganist it?

Is any opensource software for linux/mac etc?


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 7, 2020)

@Ars - There is no software available to change the voltage on Sandy or Ivy Bridge notebooks.  No Windows software, no Mac software, no Linux software.



unclewebb said:


> Software under volting was not possible until the 4th Gen Haswell CPUs were released.


This is when Intel added an integrated voltage regulator to their CPUs.  This was the start of undervolting for the Core i CPUs.  Nothing for Core i before this.


----------



## Ars (Jan 7, 2020)

How internal voltage change due eist works on pre haswell? From what cpu get volages for lower p-states?


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## Retrorockit (Jan 9, 2020)

I came across this cooler that MIGHT be able to fit in a T3610. You would have to make your own narrow ILM bracket and maybe take the MB out to bolt it down. Do your own measuring. I don't have one of these computers. Also if you own one of these it might be worth trying to seeing which RAM slots can be left empty and still have 4 channel RAM.
Maybe a small allen wrench can be snaked down in there to tighten button head screws? You would have to have the cooler in your hands to try this.








						be quiet!
					

be quiet!




					www.bequiet.com
				





			https://www.itcreations.com/media/images/9M8Y8_1.jpg
		

 And this.





						Narrow ILM / AMD Bolt-Thru-Kit – Thermalright
					






					thermalright.com


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 10, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> I came across this cooler that MIGHT be able to fit in a T3610. You would have to make your own narrow ILM bracket and maybe take the MB out to bolt it down. Do your own measuring. I don't have one of these computers. Also if you own one of these it might be worth trying to seeing which RAM slots can be left empty and still have 4 channel RAM.
> Maybe a small allen wrench can be snaked down in there to tighten button head screws? You would have to have the cooler in your hands to try this.
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like it'll fit and the measurements say it should. There's always the "if" though.



Retrorockit said:


> And this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd go with the bequiet and take out the middle fan. Just me though..


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 10, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> I'd go with the bequiet and take out the middle fan. Just me though..


I just noticed that the AMD pattern resembled the Narrow ILM LGA2011, and when I searched it I came up with that somewhat universal bracket kit. If I owned  a T3610 I would have one in my tool box.


----------



## Durkhead (Jan 15, 2020)

Excuse me if I'm posting this on the wrong place but I have a ques bout Intel turbo boost and how it works like if I bought a 9100f and had good motherboard and good cooling could I run it at Max speed as long as the temp was good, would I need throttlestop to do that? or if I got an optiplex with i5 4570 could I make that run at Max speed for long period of time I'm interested in getting a new PC for emulation which needs high clock speed but only uses 2 or three cores


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 15, 2020)

Intel CPUs can run at full turbo speed indefinitely as long as they are not overheating and as long as they are not exceeding the turbo power limit. Some boards will allow you to set the power limits sky high. Other boards will lock the power limit register so even with software you will not be able to exceed the TDP limit.

Unless someone has used your exact combination, it is impossible to say what is possible.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 15, 2020)

First thing I need to say is we don't know what works until someone tries it.
But here are the principles we try.
Throttlestop, and Intel XTU can "often" control Voltage and multiplier on unlocked CPUs on locked systems.
1-So your first stop should be userbenchmark.com to see if the system your interested in has any unlocked CPUs running there.
2- Get a feel for the CPU score of that CPU at base speed, and look for "outliers" with a noticeably higher CPU score. That's evidence of a successful overclock of "some kind". If there aren't any that means you're the guinea pig. If you try it and it  doesn't work post here anyway. The information is still useful to others.
3- Throttlestop has the ability to be text edited in a word processor to only overclock 2 cores of a 4 core CPU. 6+ core IDK. Maybe 2, maybe 3 cores. Newer stuff perhaps the cores are more tightly integrated.
4-MAYBE if you change the file name you could open a 2nd TS window and underclock the other cores since that's Throttlestops purpose in notebooks. I don't think Volatge can be separated though. Has never been tried ASFAIK..
 5- I would be looking at a surplus workstation. ECC capability and higher performance VRM and memory subsystems make older workstations perform better than newer Optiplex. Optiplex almost all have a 95W CPU limit. Workstations are 130+W capable. This almost always translates to higher overclock performance.


----------



## OEMOC (Jan 18, 2020)

Durkhead said:


> If I got an optiplex with i5 4570 could I make that run at Max speed for long period of time I'm interested in getting a new PC for emulation which needs high clock speed but only uses 2 or three cores



Hey Durk, I'm _really _into emulation and have emulated most consoles up to the switch, ps3, and 360. Before you go out and decide an OEM PC to buy for emulation please PM me what consoles you're looking to emulate and I'll help you decide what sort of build would be best for you as well as a few tips to help smooth out gameplay on newer console emulation.


----------



## dhrag5t (Jan 23, 2020)

Does anyone know if the T3500 dual front fans can be modified to run at 100% all the time? Ideally through software. I want to see how much of an improvement I can get on my overclock by actively cooling the northbridge heatsink (x58 get notoriously hot) and cooling the VRM's on the motherboard. Basically want to cool down the PC as much as possible to see the true overclocking limit for this platform through Throttlestop. 

With my current setup I've tried upping the TDP and TDC to 200 each for a 4.4 ghz overclock (33x multiplier on all cores) but it keeps crashing as soon as I start Cinebench. Even at the 32x multiplier (4.26 ghz) now, it's stable enough for day to day use but on more intensive CPU tasks I've recently had a few BSOD's over the past month or so. So even if I can't get to a stable 4.4 ghz, getting back to a 100% stable 4.26 like before would be great.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 23, 2020)

dhrag5t said:


> Does anyone know if the T3500 dual front fans can be modified to run at 100% all the time?


To my knowledge, there is no such method. The only alternative is to mount non-Dell 120mm fans that have sufficient speed to do the work you need and are powered by the PSU directly instead of the motherboard. You will need to replace the 120mm fans with 92mm or 80mm Dell fans to keep the BIOS from alerting you at every bootup. One can be mounted to the CPU heatsink and the other to the motherboard chipset.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 23, 2020)

I've had good results on other Dells by adding heatsinks to the VRM MOSFETS and had more Voltage become available.

HWInfo 64 has a fan speed utility you can try. Removing the blue PWM lead also sends the fans to 100% in fail safe mode.
Does it crash when you start Cinebench. or does it crash when the fans speed up? Some motherboards lose CPU Voltage then. I've powered the main fan off of a Molex and just used the PWM and RPM wires from the MB. A small chipset fan can be used to avoid errors. Fan errors need to be cleared manually in the BIOS on some Dells. You might look at the big fan/cooler mod I did on pages 8,9. Basically without the HD Tray the 150x50mm fan from the older 2 CPU machines and 90mm cage fan fit in the case. But the stock cooler is in the dead zone on that fan. This is a 256cfm fan @ 2000 rpm. So it's fairly quiet. It needs 1.8A. by itself. On the old BTX machines the MB can supply that at the fan header. But the T3500 has 2x.9A fans so it's risky to just plug it in. In 120mm format I've used the 3.4A. GFB1212VHG 120x50mm 2 motor fan off of Molex. But expensive, hard to find and not as good as the 150mm.














						YouTube
					

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.




					www.youtube.com


----------



## OEMOC (Jan 24, 2020)

dhrag5t said:


> Does anyone know if the T3500 dual front fans can be modified to run at 100% all the time? Ideally through software.




You can unplug the front panel header which will get the fans to run at 100% speed 100% of the time. Alternatively, I use speedfan version 4.52 which automatically detects both fans and allows full control of them both.

Also here is a post of mine giving some cheap VRM cooling suggestions. I'm fairly certain between cooling your VRMs, upping the stock fan's speeds, throwing a fan onto the northbridge, and throwing a fan onto the cpu heatsink you'll get your 4.26ghz oc stable.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 24, 2020)

OEMOC said:


> You can unplug the front panel header which will get the fans to run at 100% speed 100% of the time.


You don't want to do that.


OEMOC said:


> Alternatively, I use speedfan version 4.52 which automatically detects both fans and allows full control of them both.


Really? Last time I used speedfan it failed to do anything.. I'll have to try again, might have missed something.


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## OEMOC (Jan 25, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Really? Last time I used speedfan it failed to do anything.. I'll have to try again, might have missed something.


Yup, I just installed it and didn't do anything special. It saw and allowed me to control my t3500's front fans natively as well as my HD 7770's fan.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 25, 2020)

There was simpler cooling mod in here with a Dynatron G17 cooler and a 90x38mm 132cfm Nydec fan that works in the same footprint as the stock cooler. Around Page 25 somehwere. You can keep the HDD tray which does have a ducting effect.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 25, 2020)

OEMOC said:


> Yup, I just installed it and didn't do anything special. It saw and allowed me to control my t3500's front fans natively as well as my HD 7770's fan.


Just downloaded and ran it. Here what it does on this T3500;


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## OEMOC (Jan 30, 2020)

This is what I was met with the first time I started speedfan on my T3500.


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 30, 2020)

OEMOC said:


> This is what I was met with the first time I started speedfan on my T3500.


Hmm. What's your BIOS version?


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## Retrorockit (Feb 4, 2020)

I just found a source for assorted memory modules of the type and size we use including non ECC, and UDIMMs for the overclockers and gamers among us. They also list them by x64, x72, and single or dual rank specs. which can be hard to find sometimes. Hard to find capacities there also. 4GB DDR2, and 8GB single rank 1024x64 DDR3 at 1066 and 1333 speeds.
Many are OEM branded.





						RAM Memory Upgrade
					

Check out our huge database for the memory upgrade needs for your desktop or notebook. Apple or IBM based. Brands like, Crucial, Samsung, Micron, Kingston and many more




					starmicroinc.net
				



I've used these guys for CPUs many times and never had a problem. . They've been around a long time.
I called and asked and was told that memory upgrades are all NOS even for older sytems but CPus are not. So factor that in when comparing prices to used online stuff with no support.


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## OEMOC (Feb 7, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Hmm. What's your BIOS version?




I'm on A17.


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## ratkailaszlo (Mar 7, 2020)

Hey Guys!

I found a way to overclock Dell Precision T3610 + E5 1650 v2!

Installed XTU, TS 8.7.  Set up all to unlimited in XTU or 4095 in TS.

Disable C states in Bios, enable speedstep, but in TS you have to disable it!

The only remaining is that you have to do a sleep in Windows, than turn on pc, woalla, your multiplier unlocked!

You need some heatsinks for the VRM to do 4400-4500 MHz(of course you need a decent chip), but with stock cooling the temps peaked at 78 C.

Dell computers (ex mine M4800) can step over TDP limitations, or weak PSU problems , aftermarket batteries when you do a sleep in Windows.

https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserR...bslH-SSV-9tgk_6mk6OeoJ7WJMqd3ni-yCxDR_Sg9KLUg


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## ManGupta (Mar 7, 2020)

ratkailaszlo said:


> Hey Guys!
> 
> I found a way to overclock Dell Precision T3610 + E5 1650 v2!
> 
> ...



Wow .......... That's GREAT!  

Which PSU 425 /685 / 1300 Watt PSU in yr System ??

What Mods did you do to Cool the VRM ?

Did you made any Mods for CPU Cooler ?

What were temps for NB & SB ?

Any attempt at RAM OC ??



lexluthermiester said:


> Just downloaded and ran it. Here what it does on this T3500;
> View attachment 143164
> QUOTE]
> 
> Did you enabled Dell Support in SpeedFan Configuration ?


----------



## Retrorockit (Mar 7, 2020)

The T3610 has been there waiting to be done. The HP guys have been  ahead of us on this. The proprietary PSU scares everyone away I think. But then again that sort of thing can make them inexpensive on the used market.
There are aftermarket coolers for LGA2011 narrow ILM. Dell usually goes their own way on attaching hardware so be prepared for that. Thermalright hardware has bridged the gap for me in the past on other Dells.








						Noctua NH-D9DX i4 3U, Premium CPU Cooler for Intel Xeon LGA20xx (92mm, Brown) - Newegg.com
					

Buy Noctua NH-D9DX i4 3U, Premium CPU Cooler for Intel Xeon LGA20xx (92mm, Brown) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				



I would play around with some cardboard and see if ducting adds anything to that, or not.
  Throttlestop has been the only game in town for older sytems, but for newer Than LGA1366 stuff it looks like XTU is the way to go.
That CPU has AVX support that the X58 stuff doesn't.
Here's where the HP guys are at with those CPus.








						z420/z620 overcklock
					

Hello, i whant to overcklock 1650 v2 in z420/z620 v2.  For start i am use XTU and it is capeble to overcklock all threads to 3.9GHz  Then i find out that if i ran ThrottleStop and set multipler to 42 after this i can increase overcklock in XTU to 42 too, and 1650 v2 work in 4.2GHz. But in heavy...




					h30434.www3.hp.com
				



The OP misspelled Overclock which makes it very hard to find.


----------



## Durkhead (Mar 8, 2020)

ratkailaszlo said:


> Hey Guys!
> 
> I found a way to overclock Dell Precision T3610 + E5 1650 v2!
> 
> ...


So If i have a dell laptop that won't recognize an aftermarket batt if I let windows go to sleep it will charge it I have a dell Inspiron 1420 and I bought a new batt for it but dell won't recognize it


----------



## ratkailaszlo (Mar 8, 2020)

ManGupta said:


> Wow .......... That's GREAT!
> 
> Which PSU 425 /685 / 1300 Watt PSU in yr System ??
> 
> ...



Hello There,

The 685W PSU broken, i did it with the older T3600's 625W.
No cooling mods yet, i ordered some copper heatsinks from Amazon.
Cooling is stock by far.

I'll do a benchmark with games, and some syntethic test with results and temps.


----------



## ManGupta (Mar 8, 2020)

ratkailaszlo said:


> Hello There,
> 
> The 685W PSU broken, i did it with the older T3600's 625W.
> No cooling mods yet, i ordered some copper heatsinks from Amazon.
> ...



Good Bro .... do keep  us posted .....

Now we have one more information .....

PSU for T3600 will work in T3610 ....... previously there was skepticism on that as well.


----------



## Gdublu (Apr 30, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> @lexluthermiester - You have the low power C1E state enabled in your last two pictures.  When this C State is enabled, the CPU multiplier and CPU voltage are rapidly cycled up and down to decrease power consumption.  If the CPU has something to do, the multi and voltage go high; CPU is idle with nothing to do, CPU multi and voltage go low.  This is happening continuously hundreds of times per second and each thread can enter various C States individually.  ThrottleStop uses high performance timers within the CPU and is able to calculate a very accurate average multiplier while this is happening.  The data looks very strange but it is accurate.
> 
> Your first picture shows a nice even 25.00 multiplier.  I had a look at the Intel docs and it shows that the X5675 also has access to a 26 multiplier.  CPU-Z confirms that your CPU supports a 26 multiplier.  This higher multiplier is only available if you have either C3 or C6 enabled and it is only used when 1 or 2 cores are active and the other cores are resting in C3 or C6.  Click on the C6 button and have a look in the ThrottleStop C State window to see if your CPU is spending any time in either of those two C states.  I am pretty sure you are going to see 0.0 for all of the entries which would confirm that C States are disabled in the bios, either accidentally or on purpose.  If you want to do some testing, re-boot, enable at least C3 in the bios and then once Windows has settled down, try running a 1 Thread TS Bench test.  While the CPU is loaded and this test is running, you should be seeing a multiplier higher than 25.00.  Look in the C State window while testing and you should see various cores going into C3 and or C6.
> 
> ...


Hi Guys. Im having issuesgetting x5670 to 25 time multiplier on my t3500. Any suggestions?


----------



## unclewebb (Apr 30, 2020)

@Gdublu - The X5670 is a locked CPU. The 25 multiplier is only available when 1 or 2 cores are active. When 3 or more cores are active, the maximum multiplier decreases to 24. These CPUs have a 95 Watt TDP rating so when heavily loaded, you might not even see that. Default multiplier is 22. If the CPU is turbo throttling, the multiplier will rapidly throttle between 22 and 24. ThrottleStop will accurately report this.

If you want to see a 25 multiplier or higher, best to get an unlocked CPU with unlocked power limits.  The W3680 is my fav. Good bang for the buck and you can run a 30 or 31 multiplier across all 6 cores while fully loaded.









						Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs
					

Yes, but not on my mainboard :D Thats the problem. Otherwise the x5650 would be enough.   That was general information to help others who may want to try this. They are socket 1156 CPUs. When I first posted that I wasn't aware the i5 655K was 2 core so I added that info as a clarification.  The...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Retrorockit (May 1, 2020)

Gdublu said:


> Hi Guys. Im having issuesgetting x5670 to 25 time multiplier on my t3500. Any suggestions?


 We've found that all of the X5xxx series CPUs are locked multiplier. They're popular with overclockers using aftermarket unlocked motherboards because they're cheap and work well. But there are just a few unlocked X58 Xeons.
W3680,W3690 are the most popular X58 chips. The older 4 core W3570,W3580 are unlocked also. But not very popular due to 45nm vs 32nm architecture. Unlocked CPUs are the key to Throtttlestop and Intel XTU overclocking of locked BIOS computers.


----------



## Gdublu (May 3, 2020)

Yes thank you. I just recieved w3680 today. Will TS only take me to 4.2ghz? Please advise bios and TS settings for highest clock. I hVe added fan to u016 heatsink and have 3 fan rx570 also for cooling


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 3, 2020)

Gdublu said:


> Will TS only take me to 4.2ghz?


That's a silicon lottery situation I'm afraid. You might get 4.4ghz, you might only get 3.9ghz. It just depends on the die and the power quality the system it's going into can deliver. You'll need to experiment to discover the limits of your particular Xeon CPU.

It's not unreasonable to think you should be able to get 4ghz. More would be a bonus round! Make sure you have *good cooling* as you go beyond 4ghz that CPU will start putting out the heat!


----------



## Gdublu (May 3, 2020)

blue screen with 31x. Set tpd to 180. Could that cause blue screen or just multiplier?


----------



## unclewebb (May 3, 2020)

Gdublu said:


> just multiplier?


My W3680 was only 100% stable on my Dell with the 30 multiplier. It could run some light benches like userbenchmark at 31. Back off to 30 and see how it goes.


----------



## Gdublu (May 3, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> My W3680 was only 100% stable on my Dell with the 30 multiplier. It could run some light benches like userbenchmark at 31. Back off to 30 and see how it goes.


 Thank you. 30 on all still shut down.  I appear stable with 30 on two and rest on 29 which still lets those first two cores hit 4ghz


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 3, 2020)

Gdublu said:


> Set tpd to 180.


That is WAY too high. That CPU is a 130W TDP part. Setting it to 140 or 145 is more than enough to get a solid OC out of it. 140 should allow the board to give it enough voltage to get to 4ghz/30multi, perhaps even 31. Giving it more than 145 will actually cause it to be given too much power. Keep it modest and see what you can get.


----------



## Gdublu (May 3, 2020)

30 on all cores test if I only bench 4 cores. If i try to bench all 6 I got white noise screen and restart. This one doesnt like 30+

Is it ok to ise different multipliers on each core? The 30, 30 29 seems to be as much as I can get without blue screen, white screen restarts unless there is anything in there to try


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 3, 2020)

Gdublu said:


> Is it ok to ise different multipliers on each core?


Yeah, pretty sure that'll work for you. I've never tried until just now, but it's working on my T3500's(I own 2). Of course mine are set that way by default as they are locked.


Gdublu said:


> The 30, 30 29 seems to be as much as I can get without blue screen, white screen restarts unless there is anything in there to try


What power level are you pushing to it?


----------



## Gdublu (May 3, 2020)

31 works if I do it on two cores then set the remainders to 29



lexluthermiester said:


> Yeah, pretty sure that'll work for you. I've never tried until just now, but it's working on my T3500's(I own 2).
> 
> What power level are you pushing to it?


Only 525 watt psu. Could that be the issue?


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 3, 2020)

Gdublu said:


> 31 works if I do it on two cores then set the remainders to 29


Looks like you are getting it sorted. That's a solid OC and nothing to scoff at.



Gdublu said:


> Only 525 watt psu. Could that be the issue?


If it's a Dell PSU, you should be good. Wouldn't hurt to get a 750W, but it's not a necessity. What GPU are you running?


----------



## unclewebb (May 3, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> That is WAY too high. That CPU is a 130W TDP part. Setting it to 140 or 145 is more than enough to get a solid OC out of it.


My definition of a solid overclock is as fast as it will go for as long as possible. In that situation, bumping the TDP up to 180 is a good place to start testing. 









						Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs
					

Yes, but not on my mainboard :D Thats the problem. Otherwise the x5650 would be enough.   That was general information to help others who may want to try this. They are socket 1156 CPUs. When I first posted that I wasn't aware the i5 655K was 2 core so I added that info as a clarification.  The...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Anything less and my W3680 was throttling in the TS Bench test. For Prime95, I had to go higher than that or else the multiplier would be throttling. For gaming I am sure you can get away with a lot less than this. For maximum performance, you have to significantly increase the TDP limit.



Gdublu said:


> Is it ok to ise different multipliers on each core?


You are not using different multipliers on different cores. This setting controls what multiplier the CPU uses based on how many cores are active. When 1 or 2 cores are active, if you have this set to 31, the CPU will use the 31 multiplier. Any core that is active can end up using this multiplier in this situation.


----------



## Gdublu (May 3, 2020)

Gdublu said:


> 31 works if I do it on two cores then set the remainders to 29
> 
> 
> Only 525 watt psu. Could that be a issue?





lexluthermiester said:


> Looks like you are getting it sorted. That's a solid OC and nothing to scoff at.
> 
> 
> If it's a Dell PSU, you should be good. Wouldn't hurt to get a 750W, but it's not a necessity. What GPU are you running?


Yes dell 525. Rx560 on this one. I have a gtx1660 running in my other t3500 with x5675 so no TS OC there but that system kills games as is. Cant wait to play this one at 3.9-4 I have running solid for the last hour. No temps over 80c in heavy stress test.



Gdublu said:


> Yes dell 525. Rx560 on this one. I have a gtx1660 running in my other t3500 with x5675 so no TS OC there but that system kills games as is. Cant wait to play this one at 3.9-4 I have running solid for the last hour. No temps over 80c in heavy stress test.


Sorry rx 570



unclewebb said:


> My definition of a solid overclock is as fast as it will go for as long as possible. In that situation, bumping the TDP up to 180 is a good place to start testing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My t3500 is not liking TDP increase seems like 145 is limit



Gdublu said:


> Yes dell 525. Rx560 on this one. I have a gtx1660 running in my other t3500 with x5675 so no TS OC there but that system kills games as is. Cant wait to play this one at 3.9-4 I have running solid for the last hour. No temps over 80c in heavy stress test.
> 
> 
> Sorry rx 570
> ...


Seems like the tx bench freezes up if I go over 145 TDP. This is the best multiplier I can get without a crash.



Gdublu said:


> Yes dell 525. Rx560 on this one. I have a gtx1660 running in my other t3500 with x5675 so no TS OC there but that system kills games as is. Cant wait to play this one at 3.9-4 I have running solid for the last hour. No temps over 80c in heavy stress test.
> 
> 
> Sorry rx 570
> ...


Seems like the tx bench freezes up if I go over 145 TDP. This is the best multiplier I can get without a crash.

This is the t3500 w/ w3680 and Rx570oc. I even did a case mod and added rgb


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 3, 2020)

Gdublu said:


> rx 570


I would swap them. Stick your 1660 with your W3680. Best GPU with the best CPU. The GTX1660 actually uses less power than the RX570 by a significant amount. It's a better combination. And because the GPU is using less power, you might get a better stable result from your W3680.


----------



## Gdublu (May 3, 2020)

Ok ill try in tomorrow for sure. Thank you for the help!


----------



## Retrorockit (May 3, 2020)

Gdublu said:


> 30 on all cores test if I only bench 4 cores. If i try to bench all 6 I got white noise screen and restart. This one doesnt like 30+
> 
> Is it ok to ise different multipliers on each core? The 30, 30 29 seems to be as much as I can get without blue screen, white screen restarts unless there is anything in there to try


 Throttlestop could be text edited on LGA775 4 core CPUs to just overclock 2 cores. I'm not sure how the 6 core CPUs are laid out. Since there are 4 core versions I'm guessing they're 3x2core dies. So assigning TS to cores 0,1 should let you do this for gaming. I think Notepad would do it. I'm planning on trying this with a QX6800 to see if i can break the 4GHz barrier with that CPU.


----------



## Gdublu (May 3, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> Throttlestop could be text edited on LGA775 4 core CPUs to just overclock 2 cores. I'm not sure how the 6 core CPUs are laid out. Since there are 4 core versions I'm guessing they're 3x2core dies. So assigning TS to cores 0,1 should let you do this for gaming. I think Notepad would do it. I'm planning on trying this with a QX6800 to see if i can break the 4GHz barrier with that CPU.


I was able to set to 31,31, 29,29,29,29 and and getting the 4 on the two cores with no crashing. It throttles between 3.888 and 4.1. This should be pretty good for games right now until they start utilizing more cores i beleive.

4.1!



lexluthermiester said:


> I would swap them. Stick your 1660 with your W3680. Best GPU with the best CPU. The GTX1660 actually uses less power than the RX570 by a significant amount. It's a better combination. And because the GPU is using less power, you might get a better stable result from your W3680.


X5675 in other system. Im looking for a good board to run that on so I can take it to 4.5. Any suggestions on the right board or will w3680 go higher?



lexluthermiester said:


> I would swap them. Stick your 1660 with your W3680. Best GPU with the best CPU. The GTX1660 actually uses less power than the RX570 by a significant amount. It's a better combination. And because the GPU is using less power, you might get a better stable result from your W3680.


X5675 in other system. Im looking for a good board to run that on so I can take it to 4.5. Any suggestions on the right board or will w3680 go higher?


unclewebb said:


> My definition of a solid overclock is as fast as it will go for as long as possible. In that situation, bumping the TDP up to 180 is a good place to start testing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oooohhhh, I wonder if I can get away with 4 @ 31x is two good enough for gaming?...Im building the systems for my sons to game on since we are stuck at home. I couldnt afford x58 when it came out so im like a kid in a candy store. Im not even going to use them but just love running this tech against new stuff. The system with the 1660 is running as well as same gpu and i5 9400f

T3500 - Xeon W3680 - 20gb ddr3 in weird 4x4 with 2x2 in remaining slots. Dell board doesn't seem to have any issue with it.
Win.10, ssd, powercolor Red Devil 3fan rx570. Total cost under $200 but I got three T3500's for free.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 3, 2020)

Gdublu said:


> X5675 in other system. Im looking for a good board to run that on so I can take it to 4.5. Any suggestions on the right board or will w3680 go higher?


I'd leave the W3680 in the Dell as it's the only one that will OC in it. The X5675 will do well with BCLK OC's in plenty of 1366 boards from ASUS, EVGA, Gigabyte and MSI.



Gdublu said:


> T3500 - Xeon W3680 - 20gb ddr3 in weird 4x4 with 2x2 in remaining slots. Dell board doesn't seem to have any issue with it.


While it'll run, it's doing so in single channel mode. Take out the 2x2GB a one of the 4GB and just do 4x4GB in triple channel, your RAM performance will increase dramatically. 12GB of RAM will be more than enough for any gaming and whatnot you be doing on that T3500.



Gdublu said:


> Win.10, ssd, powercolor Red Devil 3fan rx570. Total cost under $200 but I got three T3500's for free.


Damn good deal!


----------



## Gdublu (May 4, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> I'd leave the W3680 in the Dell as it's the only one that will OC in it. The X5675 will do well with BCLK OC's in plenty of 1366 boards from ASUS, EVGA, Gigabyte and MSI.
> 
> 
> While it'll run, it's doing so in single channel mode. Take out the 2x2GB a one of the 4GB and just do 4x4GB in triple channel, your RAM performance will increase dramatically. 12GB of RAM will be more than enough for any gaming and whatnot you be doing on that T3500.
> ...


The corsair in there is three channel 4gb. Just leave those right and take the rest out?



Gdublu said:


> The corsair in there is three channel 4gb. Just leave those right and take the rest out?


Also the corsair is 1600mhz. Will that slow the dell or will it jist run it at 1333


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 4, 2020)

Gdublu said:


> The corsair in there is three channel 4gb. Just leave those right and take the rest out?


Yuppers!


Gdublu said:


> Also the corsair is 1600mhz. Will that slow the dell or will it jist run it at 1333


It'll run at 1333, but very likely at tighter timings from the SPD profile. So yeah, you'll be good! CPUZ should show you what those timings are in the Memory Tab.


----------



## Retrorockit (May 4, 2020)

IDK what aftermarket board would be good but you could ask in the X58 Xeon Club at Overclock.net








						[Official] - X58 Xeon Club -
					

- X58 Xeon Club -    X58 users unite! The X58 has been shadowed for some time now, but the platform is still viable. I thought I'd make this topic for X58 users who are running Xeons. That means ANY Xeon, not just Hexa-cores. With so many people upgrading to Xeons I felt that this would be a...




					www.overclock.net
				



BCLK overclocking is a very complex process.
You might look into the 4C/8T X5687. They sell for around$20.








						Free shipping Intel Xeon X5687 LGA 1366/Socket B (SLBVY) CPU Processor 3.6 GHz  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Free shipping Intel Xeon X5687 LGA 1366/Socket B (SLBVY) CPU Processor 3.6 GHz at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 4, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> BCLK overclocking is a very complex process.


I never had many problems BITD. With modest adjustments my old i7-920 went to 3.8ghz in a 201 BCLK. I don't remember the exact settings but I remember it wasn't difficult. The MSI board I had at the time was an exceptional overclocker. Can't imagine a 6-core X56XX or W36XX will be too difficult to BCLK OC.


----------



## EarthDog (May 4, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> BCLK overclocking is a very complex process.


There is more involved than an unlocked cpu.. but i wouldnt actually  call it difficult. 








						3 Step Guide To Overclock Your Core i3, i5, or i7 - Updated! - Overclockers
					

So many users are searching around the net these days looking for advice on how to overclock their new systems but don't know where to start.




					www.overclockers.com


----------



## Retrorockit (May 4, 2020)

At OCN 4.5GHz is considered normal. That gets into QPI links, various Voltage offsets, RAM timings and. Almost 1000 pages of it. That's why I started a separate forum for TS overclocking.
They have almost nothing in common.
 The word I used was "complex", not "difficult".


----------



## Retrorockit (May 4, 2020)

I found this chart looking up X5687 overclocks at CPUZ.








						Intel Xeon @ 6003.15 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[025um0] Validated Dump by DR4G00N (2016-02-27 16:23:28) - MB: Gigabyte X58A-OC - RAM: 4096 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				



Most interesting to me is the Dell T5500 @5GHz not only beating the dual CPU EVGA Classified SR2 dual CPU machines, but hyperthreading at the same time.
I have absolutely no idea how this was done.

Actually looking closer I'm seeing a multiplier of 38 on a locked CPU so I'm going to say it's bogus.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 4, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> Most interesting to me is the Dell T5500 @5GHz not only beating the dual CPU EVGA Classified SR2 dual CPU machines, but hyperthreading at the same time.
> I have absolutely no idea how this was done.


Link?


Retrorockit said:


> Actually looking closer I'm seeing a multiplier of 38 on a locked CPU so I'm going to say it's bogus.


Given that info, I would lean that way as well.


----------



## Retrorockit (May 4, 2020)

I hope somebody will prove me wrong about that.


----------



## EarthDog (May 4, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> At OCN 4.5GHz is considered normal. That gets into QPI links, various Voltage offsets, RAM timings and. Almost 1000 pages of it. That's why I started a separate forum for TS overclocking.
> They have almost nothing in common.
> The word I used was "complex", not "difficult".


Fine. More complex than mindlessly flipping the CPU multi, I'll give you that. But it's easy to wrap your head around it. If I can do it......lol....


Retrorockit said:


> Actually looking closer I'm seeing a multiplier of 38 on a locked CPU so I'm going to say it's bogus.





Retrorockit said:


> I hope somebody will prove me wrong about that.


It doesn't appear to be bogus. I see over 200 bclk with using a lower multipler than max... quite common on that platform.

EDIT: Here are other results (including that same one) from hwbot.org. You'll see all CPUz screenshots are showing the same thing with that CPU (high bclk, middling multi). 






						CPU Frequency overclocking records @ HWBOT
					

Overclocking records




					hwbot.org


----------



## Retrorockit (May 4, 2020)

The CPU can do that.
It's the 5GHz Dell T5500 that appears bogus. I edited this link in but it got dropped, so I'll try again here.








						Intel Xeon @ 5053.24 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[zqtdfm] Validated Dump by AILEM-PC (2016-07-06 21:17:25) - MB: Dell 0CRH6C - RAM: 11262 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				



 I would love to have someone tell me how to get 38x133 on a pair of HT X5687 in a Dell T5500 workstation. Even single CPU.
 The reason for the "mindless" multiplier overclocking is it's the only game in town for Dell and HP workstation overclocking. Also many other OEM systems. It really is a separate subject than BCLK overclocking. Completely different computers in most cases.
HWBOT is useful for Intel XTU overclocking of systems newer than X58 and relevant to HP Z420, or Dell T3610 workstations. But again it requires unlocked CPUs. Usually the unlocked Xeons are the best choice.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 4, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> The CPU can do that.
> It's the 5GHz Dell T5500 that appears bogus. I edited this link in but it got dropped, so I'll try again here.
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps it's a hardware+software(bios) mod? I wonder what role Thottlestop might be playing, if it's real?


----------



## Retrorockit (May 4, 2020)

I've seen a lot of these at CPUZ on locked multiplier CPUs. Basically any X5xxx dual QPI Xeon with a multiplier overclock looks bogus.
I'm used to seeing them in first place there, and on an Asus MB. But now the Dell workstations are getting in the act.
But it's just a mindless multiplier overclock. So  I'm sure Underdog can do it easily.

There were unlocked dual CPU LGA771 CPUs. May be there is a pinmod multiplier unlock out there? But I've seen a lot of them at CPUZ and if so the secret is well kept. Not just the specific method, but not even a hint of the practice existing. Also no known LGA775/771 unlocks which would be the logical starting point for that.


----------



## EarthDog (May 4, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> HWBOT is useful for Intel XTU overclocking of systems newer than X58 and relevant to HP Z420, or Dell T3610 workstations. But again it requires unlocked CPUs. Usually the unlocked Xeons are the best choice.


I'm not sure what you are saying here. I simply linked hwbot to show you that running a high bclk and lower cpu multi is possible on that CPU. Those aren't unlocked CPUs, the X5687s (are they?).



Retrorockit said:


> But it's just a mindless multiplier overclock. So I'm sure Underdog can do it easily.


Why are you insulting me? Did I miss something?

If you are calling BCLK overclocking complex (which I conceded to, more or less), isn't CPU multiplier overclocking easier? It's pretty mindless to just add multi and vcore. You don't have to worry about the other 'complexities' mentioned. My hardcore subambient overclocking days started just before X58 so I am intimately familiar with the platform (though my memory blows!).

EDIT: I have no idea on the Dell.

EDIT2: You meant the Dell in the first place I guess? Apologies man... but there isn't a need to be flippant in your response and twist my name around...


----------



## Retrorockit (May 4, 2020)

This thread is about software overclocking locked BIOS computers.
So BCLK overclocking except SetFSB or Clockgen is pretty much OT here.
That's why I refer people to other sites for that information. Politely.
To call multiplier overclocking "mindless" pretty much insults everyone here. We're all doing it on locked BIOS computers that most people think can't be overclocked at all. BCLK doesn't work on our computers.
We have our own space for this so as not to disturb people who prefer the more traditional methods.
Starting an argument over which overclocking method is better or worse is basically just trolling.
We're overclocking different computers. Some people get these old workstations for free.
Since you're not familiar with this I will help you.
Discovering unlocked CPUs is job #1 here. Especially the undocumented unlocked Xeons.
CPUZ has a problem with posting high multiplier overclocks on locked CPUs. It's a known issue here.
Here's a W5580 5.6Ghz Nehalem at CPUZ showing a 42x overclock. It's in 1st ranking on an Asus P6T.








						Intel Xeon W5580 @ 5612.23 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[81teia] Validated Dump by 123456-PC (2016-01-19 05:52:34) - MB: Asus P6T - RAM: 4096 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				



We tried it. It's locked. Even an ES somebody tried was locked.
 This may be confusing to traditional overclockers because the 2QPI Xeons are quite popular for that method. But they won't work at all for what we're doing here.
The only LGA1366 2 CPU overclocks that are known to be legitimate are the EVGA SR2. All BCLK method.
There has been some small success with a 2 CPU overclock using SetFSB on a Dell T7500 but without Voltage control it doesn't amount to much.


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## EarthDog (May 4, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> This thread is about software overclocking locked BIOS computers.
> So BCLK overclocking except SetFSB or Clockgen is pretty much OT here.
> That's why I refer people to other sites for that information. Politely.
> To call multiplier overclocking "mindless" pretty much insults everyone here. We're all doing it on locked BIOS computers that most people think can't be overclocked at all. BCLK doesn't work on our computers.
> ...


Calling a method (you arent even using?) mindless isn't insulting anyone. It is the process that is easy/mindless, not the users doing it. This wasn't about preference of anything or to argue (your hackles went up instantly, though..). I simply tried to help, but seems that was misplaced...my apologies but there is no need to be insult anyone like that...wow...


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## 95Viper (May 5, 2020)

Stay on topic and take any personal things to PMs.

Thank You and Have a Nice Day.


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## lexluthermiester (May 9, 2020)

After recent discussions and having taken in a few W3680's at my shop I wanted to try them out and use them. ThrottleStop easily allowed for an OC in both of my T3500's.

Of the 3 W3680's I have, one of them is limited to 3.86ghz OC, seemingly due to silicon lottery. The other two however both got to 4.13ghz(31multi). One needed settings in the "TPL" screen to be raised to 140w TDP and 114 TDC. The other needed 135w TDP and 112 TDC.

What surprised me was that while CPU benchmarks increased by levels that would be expected, GFX and game benchmark didn't increase by much. This strongly suggests that my systems are not CPU bottlenecked. I found this very interesting.


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## Retrorockit (May 9, 2020)

What GPU are you using? At userbenchmark that setup should be good for about an 80% CPU ranking. Typically workstations are underendowed in that area. Even with a high spec. workstation GPU gaming is not that great. I think it would take a pretty strong GPU to choke one of these things. The front runners at userbenchmark are running GTX1080/2080.


			UserBenchmark: Dell Precision WorkStation T3500   Compatible Components


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## lexluthermiester (May 9, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> What GPU are you using? At userbenchmark that setup should be good for about an 80% CPU ranking. Typically workstations are underendowed in that area. Even with a high spec. workstation GPU gaming is not that great. I think it would take a pretty strong GPU to choke one of these things. The front runners at userbenchmark are running GTX1080/2080.
> 
> 
> UserBenchmark: Dell Precision WorkStation T3500   Compatible Components


In one I have my EVGA RTX2080, which is my main gaming machine. In the other I have a GTX980. It had a GTX1070, but my daughter wanted to play a gaming that the GTX980 was struggling with so I traded her.


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## Retrorockit (May 9, 2020)

So the base clock W3680 doesn't bottleneck a RTX2080. It's a good thing the overclock is free.
Sounds like you need to add another GPU to solve your "problem".
Since you have a good GPU in one of these could you run Supersposition and get a score there? IDK if any one has run that with one of these.


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## lexluthermiester (May 9, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> So the base clock W3680 doesn't bottleneck a RTX2080. It's a good thing the overclock is free.
> Sounds like you need to add another GPU to solve your "problem".


Right? I was going to upgrade my gaming system, but nothing I'm running is lagging. So I'm good for a little while.


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## Retrorockit (May 10, 2020)

Some benchmark don't always read TS correctly. The computer boots one clock in the BIOS and then another with TS in Windows. Sleep/ Restore gets them in synch. . Geekbench was funny. It refused to accept a run unless I did the 2 step, and then it charted the performance increase on the graph, but at the base CPU speed.
Do you think another subsytem is holding it back? Or the GPU doesn't need the help?


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## lexluthermiester (May 10, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> Do you think another subsytem is holding it back? Or the GPU doesn't need the help?


Honestly, I think it depends on the game/program. For example, GTA5 doesn't run so well until I turn a few things down. I have to drop to 1080p to get a solid 120fps. With all the benchmarking I did, everything was running at 720p so that CPU would have to work harder than the GPU. This is how I discovered these W3680 are not bottlenecking the GPU's they're paired with.


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## Retrorockit (May 11, 2020)

So that's a good thing then. But the overclock didn't help? Hmmmmmmmmm. Just wondering what latency and speed RAM you have. I'm assuming 1333, but did you go with ECC or not?


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## lexluthermiester (May 11, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> So that's a good thing then. But the overclock didn't help? Hmmmmmmmmm. Just wondering what latency and speed RAM you have. I'm assuming 1333, but did you go with ECC or not?


I think I wasn't very clear. The OC increased performance by a percentage that was expected. It's the overall results of the testing which showed that I'm not fully CPU bottlenecked. It seems right on the edge of it. I think if I were to put a 2080TI or an RTX Titan in the system, the CPU would become the bottleneck. I never expected that result.


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## Retrorockit (May 11, 2020)

I'm relieved to hear the OC worked as expected. I'm not much of a gamer so dropping down from 1080 to load the CPU is not intuitive for me. I doubt if my X5470 Xeon would benefit from a bump up to 1440K very much.
 From  what I understand the first lap of a good racing sim with 30 cars on track tests a CPU due to the large number of physics problems it presents. I have no idea if any of them can access multiple cores. But even then  the overclock should show it's merit.
 I think a lot of people attribute bottlenecks to the CPU when it's a RAM capacity or bandwidth issue. 2 things the T3500 shouldn't have an issue with.


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## rGBurninator (May 11, 2020)

Hey everyone, Sorry to intrude in the middle of any conversations that might be going on. I am new to the forum but not this page as I have read literally all 37 pages of this thread to help me with achieving the best performance out of my T3500. I started my T3500 adventure off with a X5570, 12gbs ECC 800 RAM, Raedeon HD 6950 Sapphire and stock case. It has been a long time since I have played with computers and really needed to build one with a tight budget in mind, so I did ALOT of research and that is what brought me to this machine, which I am really enjoying. I love getting the most out of older products by infusing modern technology into it, just gets me all kinds of jazzed. So anyway, before reading this forum I picked up a X5687 on eBay for $30 and a EVGA GTX 1060 SSC GPU for $75 locally, a free case, a USB 3.0 PCIe card, 24gbs of 10600 ECC RAM, Cooler Master 212 RGB Black Edition Cooler, Thermaltake 700w PSU and added 2 SSD's and a HDD, but wasn't super happy, just satisfied. After reading this post I realized I should have went with an unlocked CPU but after installing the ThrottleStop and applying turbo lock I am achieving pretty close to what I would get out of an unlocked CPU with a stock Dell system. Also I used EVGA's Precision OC software and played with numbers for a while to get the to that 60% mark on the GPU, I am very satisfied with this build and so with all that said I would like to introduce Red Beauty. 

User Benchmark


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## Retrorockit (May 11, 2020)

You're more than welcome to join the conversation. The X5687 is an excellent choice. I see you have a nice aftermarket heatsink installed. The 212 is a nice budget cooler. ATX case swap too!
The conversation going on now is Lexluthermeister is the first one here to install a modern gaming GPU in one of these. GTX2080 and he's finding no CPU bottleneck.
37 pages of reading requires some commitment, but trying to find this information in the other 1,000+ page overclocking forums or notebook modding sites is almost impossible.


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## rGBurninator (May 11, 2020)

Well thank you! Yes, that 212 cooler was very inexpensive and works very well and yes a ATX case swap! haha, it took some modifying to get the MB to fit even with the case being a Cooler Master Haf X!! These CPU's amaze me more and more every time I read about them! No bottle necking is very impressive! Yes, it took about 3 days to read it all (full time work, dad and husband) but I go through it and man did it help! I was introduced to this particular forum page by william p over on Toms hardware. What did you think of the bench mark? Anything to improve?


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## Retrorockit (May 11, 2020)

Benchmark is nice. You're getting more out of the 2 fan GPU than my single fan version can provide.
For a budget build I would have tried a RAID 0 which the T3500 BIOS supports with 2x, or even 3x small SSDs. Theoreticallly RAID0  3x SATA2 beats SATA3
That could have certainly handled the 6GB GTX1060 easily. But they are more expensive.
FWIW the X58 HP Z400 follows the ATX platform more closely than Dell. But the PSU pinout and MB versions need some attention.
It looks like you started with a MB and went from there. But the Dell T3500 case and PSU would work just fine. But the Dell case is designed to run sideways and is kind of thin due to that. Hard to fit a good ATX cooler in them.
But since overclocking X58 MB still go for  $150 it's a good deal.
My guess is the overclocked 6 core would be beyond the capability of the Hyper 212 ATX cooler. What kind of temp. are you getting with the 4 core 212 setup? What you have may be a good match.
 You might try turning off hyperthreading and see if the single core CPU rating goes up any. The overall CPU score is right in there with the best 6 cores but they would be weighted more towards the multicore end of the scale. The overall may be lower but the single thread might improve some. You're at 74% single core, and the overclocked W3690 is at 78%. Maybe for gaming you can catch them.


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## rGBurninator (May 11, 2020)

The GPU  I have currently have is what was available to me at the time given, granted I could have waited for a good deal on a 6gb bu who wants to wait! Same for the hrad drives, I only bought one of the SSD's the others we laying on a shelf in the garage given to me a while back from a buddy. I started with a complete Dell T3500 PC and really did not like the case and also wanted to do something that was different and I didn't seem to find many people that did a case swap on these units. Also, I know the stock PSU would work but I wanted a little bit more for comfort and also I had a gift card to Best Buy lol.
As far as temps go, at idle I am sitting around 26C -30C but haven't really done a stress test on it yet, the highest I have seen it while running a game or average use was about 40C. All the case fans and CPU cooler fan are running directly off the PSU at 12V and not very noisy at all to me. I will try to disable hyperthreading and see what kind of numbers I can get but being at 74% is pretty good for my standards as it is right now.


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## Retrorockit (May 11, 2020)

Doing what you want with your computer is what we're all about here. For overclocking we run the CPUs that we have to, but the X5687 is great choice. Too bad it's not unlocked, it would be a real screamer." If you've seen one Dell workstation you've seen them all" is not too far from the truth..


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## lexluthermiester (May 11, 2020)

rGBurninator said:


> Hey everyone, Sorry to intrude in the middle of any conversations that might be going on.


No worries at all!


rGBurninator said:


> I am new to the forum but not this page as I have read literally all 37 pages of this thread to help me with achieving the best performance out of my T3500.


Welcome to TPU, and we hope you've found things here helpful. There is a Dell Workstation thread that you are welcome to browse;








						Dell Workstation Owners Club
					

There have been a ton of posts lately about Dell workstation PC's in other threads that have begun to derail things a bit. Thought it might be a good idea to create this thread for people to share/post info/pics and ask questions.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Retrorockit (May 12, 2020)

Getting back to Lex's situation, I think that if going down to 720P doesn't choke the CPU with a GTX2080. Then putting in a more potent GPU may cause that to happen, but that's not  a realistic scenario for one of those GPUs anyway. Anyone with an actual interest in 720P gaming would be running a GTX750Ti. It would be a very expensive way to prove a somewhat moot point. It seems to me that it has more in it.
I've seen some CPUs list in their spec. sheet another thermal limit number. The TDP is how much power the CPU comsumes at it's rate level. But there was another limit listed sometimes Maximum Power Dissipation. I don't have a figure for the W3680 but it's listed for the W3580 as 224W. This is how much power the heatspreader can dissipate. It's shown just above the TDP number. It does take a pretty massive heatsink to use that figure since it's approaching twice the TDP. For comparison a QX9650 shows 159W.


			http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon%20W3580%20-%20AT80601002274AB%20%28BX80601W3580%29.html
		

FWIW The Thermalright Macho 120 (on page 9)has a TDP rating of 200W. The bigger 140mm Macho rev.C is 240W.


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## lexluthermiester (May 12, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> Getting back to Lex's situation, I think that if going down to 720P doesn't choke the CPU with a GTX2080.


The idea of setting everything to 720p was to force the CPU into a maximum load situation.


Retrorockit said:


> It seems to me that it has more in it.


True, I think that too. However, I worry about the VRM's on the motherboard. I attached heatsinks to each of them, but they're still getting a bit warmer than I'd like.


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## Retrorockit (May 12, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> True, I think that too. However, I worry about the VRM's on the motherboard. I attached heatsinks to each of them, but they're still getting a bit warmer than I'd like.


IDK about where you are, but at Harbor Freight or one of the similar outfits an inexpensive laser thermometer can be purchased, and you can see how hot they run in normal use. You may be surprised. My thinking on them is that they aren't an etched integrated circuit component but more of a ceramic material with electrical properties. I don't think they fail, but just quit producing more power when they get too hot. But coming from me that's definitely an uneducated guess. In a $6000 workstation environment with serious data at risk I would be a loose cannon. With a $40 surplus MB on the line ????????? Dell made that to run 24/7 @ 130W with the reliability of an anvil and no heatsinks.
My experience with the Dimension E520 was adding heatsinks made more Voltage available for the overclock. So I assume they got too hot to work w/o them, but when I added the heatsinks they weren't damaged and produced higher voltage. I ran about 1.50V. continuos, and 1.5875V. for validation runs on a 65nm CPU. I doubt if we're getting anywhere near that on the 32nm procs. I think the CPU circuitry is going to be the weak link. Another $40 "fuse".


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## lexluthermiester (May 12, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> IDK about where you are, but at Harbor Freight or one of the similar outfits an inexpensive laser thermometer can be purchased, and you can see how hot they run in normal use.


I do have one. That is how I know they're getting warmer than I'd like. It's what motivated the installation of the heatsinks on the VRM's.


Retrorockit said:


> In a $6000 workstation environment with serious data at risk I would be a loose cannon. With a $40 surplus MB on the line ????????? Dell made that to run 24/7 @ 130W with the reliability of an anvil and no heatsinks.


Ah, but keep in mind, with ThrottleStop we're pushing an OC on parts that were never intended to do so. We have to take extra precautions to account for such.


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## Retrorockit (May 12, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ah, but keep in mind, with ThrottleStop we're pushing an OC on parts that were never intended to do so. We have to take extra precautions to account for such.


 But the W3680/90 is AKA the i7-980/990X which was specifically intended for overclocking. The MB wasn't, so it remains to be seen how far it can go. The Optiplex office computers are usually limited, often by weak VRM, but the workstations and multimedia machines can sometimes surprise you. Especially the BTX versions which were designed for high clock speeds. The only blown MB isssues I've seen/heard of were the known bad capacitors on Dells from a certain era. But the standard overclocking techniques all apply. Heatsinks on VRM,CPU coolers/ fans, fancy TIM, and lapped heatspreaders all play a part. The more you do the more you get. Dell did everything they could to block overclocking on the Dimension E520 and it went to 2nd place at CPUZ anyway. It was 10 years old when it did that. Bad caps and all.


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## unclewebb (May 12, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> with the reliability of an anvil


The T3500 I built seemed very solid. There were no issues even when I was full load testing the W3680 at 4.00 GHz with the TDP set to 180 Watts. A cheap fan ghetto tied to the heatsink kept the temps ridiculously low. Great heatsink that just needed a fan attached to it. My nephew installed an Nvidia GPU and has been using this T3500 for gaming, etc., every day for many hours a day without any issues. Definitely money well spent.

These were expensive computers designed for reliable business use. They tended to be over built. Dell was probably sourcing capacitors and VRMs from the high priced bin, not the bottom of the barrel.


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## Retrorockit (May 13, 2020)

Actually the 10 year old E520 went to 2nd place at 3.73GHz. But the next fsb overclock was just a few MHz behind. I figured he could just mindlessly flip a few MHz and catch me. So I just added another 266fsb multiplier for 4GHz and was in 2nd and 3rd spots at the same time. I lost 3rd to another E 520  who was getting the full 266.6MHz bus.Mine was only making 265Mhz. But it's OK because I taught him how to do it, and he taught me the T3400 4.15Ghz mod. So it had the grunt for 2nd place +1 multiplier at CPUZ in 2015. So yes, Dell definitely overbuilds some of their stuff.
The E520 was an Optiplex MT sized multimedia computer.


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## unclewebb (May 25, 2020)

@lexluthermiester - I know a while ago we were talking about how much power a W3680 really needs. I finally found a screenshot which shows the results while doing some Prime95 torture testing. To avoid any multiplier throttling, CPU power consumption has to go way beyond the default 130W TDP to get full performance out of a W3680. 



http://imgur.com/WTU1huC


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## Retrorockit (May 25, 2020)

How much difference in speed and temperature would turning off Hyperthreading make?

Also I found listed for the Nehalem W3580 a Maximum Power Dissipation rating of 224W. I haven't found this listed for any of the other CPUs that interest us. But that's what Intel says they can do in a worst case scenario.


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## lexluthermiester (May 26, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> @lexluthermiester - I know a while ago we were talking about how much power a W3680 really needs. I finally found a screenshot which shows the results while doing some Prime95 torture testing. To avoid any multiplier throttling, CPU power consumption has to go way beyond the default 130W TDP to get full performance out of a W3680.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/WTU1huC


Interesting. I did not need to use those settings to get to 4ghz all core and stress with Prime95. Granted, I have HT turned off to mitigate the vast majority of all the vulnerabilities the popped up in the last few years.

I set TDP for 135 and TDC for 140. Perfectly stable, no throttling and it ran cool. However this is not a 24/7 thing. I ran it to test and play around with what the CPU could do. I've only ran it twice at 4ghz during tasks that needed the extra CPU power.

To get 4.13ghz it needed TDP 145 and TDC 160 to run stable, but that got warmer than I was ok with. 4ghz at a mild bump? Yes please!


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## Retrorockit (Jul 2, 2020)

To whom it may apply. LGA775 2 core 65W SLGYP








						Top 15 Highest frequencies for Pentium(R) Dual-Core  CPU      E6500  @ 2.93GHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

CPU-Z VALIDATOR is the world-recognized standard for system analysis & performance validation




					valid.x86.fr
				



I don't have my hands on one yet. Prices and availability vary wildly. I'm not going to spell out what this is. Certainly not for everyone.


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## agent_x007 (Jul 2, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> To whom it may apply. LGA775 2 core 65W SLGYP
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just FYI : I'm pretty sure all results above 6GHz are errors that got validated.


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## rGBurninator (Jul 2, 2020)

I finally got my W3680 and my EvGA x58 sli3 board today and will be setting it all up tomorrow. I have never had experience overclocking but I have been reading about it for the entire time I waited for my CPU (2months). I am hoping to get more than 4ghz but will have to see how it goes.


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## Retrorockit (Jul 2, 2020)

agent_x007 said:


> Just FYI : I'm pretty sure all results above 6GHz are errors that got validated.


I've seen plenty of bogus multiplier overclocks there on locked CPUs. So no idea really. But nothing in the top 15 under 5GHz is what get's my attention. Those were only sold in China, and Intel disabled SSE4 on those Wolfdale CPUs. So it is what it is. But my Optiplex 380 with a 120W Xeon should be able to push one of those pretty far. And I have a few Optiplex XE POS computers with 4 phase VRM that might take it all the way.
It will be at least a month before I get my hands on one.
 The listings there with 11x multi are probably the SLGUH CPU , and not the SLGYP I refered to. CPUZ seems to lump them together.


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## unclewebb (Jul 2, 2020)

rGBurninator said:


> I am hoping to get more than 4 GHz


With an EVGA X58 board, you should be able to get 4 GHz stable at default voltage. With a little more voltage, 4.4 GHz is possible. With lots of voltage, you might get 4.7 GHz more or less stable. With lots and lots of voltage, a suicide run at 5.0 GHz is possible. This old hardware is fun to play with.

With an EVGA board, you should have went cheap and got the W3670. This CPU has a locked multiplier but your motherboard allows BCLK overclocking. Bumping the BCLK from 133 MHz to 200 MHz or so is a good way to see some positive results.



http://imgur.com/0XxLLWh


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## rGBurninator (Jul 2, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> With an EVGA X58 board, you should be able to get 4 GHz stable at default voltage. With a little more voltage, 4.4 GHz is possible. With lots of voltage, you might get 4.7 GHz more or less stable. With lots and lots of voltage, a suicide run at 5.0 GHz is possible. This old hardware is fun to play with.
> 
> With an EVGA board, you should have went cheap and got the W3670. This CPU has a locked multiplier but your motherboard allows BCLK overclocking. Bumping the BCLK from 133 MHz to 200 MHz or so is a good way to see some positive results.
> 
> ...


So i purchased the W3680 way before I decided to get an EVGA board so I was already stuck with the W3680. So with that I have some questions...

Can I "bump" the BCLK on the W3680 to 200MHz? 
I have a 700w power supply, will putting the voltage higher say like enough to get 4.4ghz stable?

I would love to overclock this W3680 to a stable 4.2 -4.5GHz, that would be my goal. I also need to update my bios to 83 but both of my USB flash drives are write protected without option to disable read only lol!!


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 3, 2020)

rGBurninator said:


> I am hoping to get more than 4ghz but will have to see how it goes.


You should be able to easily reach that speed. Upwards of 4.3 or 4.4 ghz is where you're going to start hitting the wall.


rGBurninator said:


> Can I "bump" the BCLK on the W3680 to 200MHz?


Yes. I would recommend 201mhz BCLK as my experience has shown that most 1366 samples seem to like it better than straight 200mhz. Not sure why, just a quirk of the platform. So start with 201mhz as a base, keeping the multi at 16 until you find that voltage sweetspot.

Take screen shots of all the menu's so we can walk you through each setting. However, let's do that in a new thread so we don't derail this one.


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## Retrorockit (Jul 3, 2020)

Thanks Lex. The simplicity of TS overclocking does get lost in the minutiae of the BCLK method.
It would be interesting to see what an aftermarket MB with aftermarket cooling would do with a TS overclock.
Then do the traditional method and see how they compare. My guess is TS should produce about the same clock speed, but the traditional method could gain some extra performance from the increased RAM and BCLK speeds.
I hope he'll do a TS run here, and then come back with a comparison. The comparison would have value for those trying to decide between a 10 yearold $150 X58 Gaming MB vs. an $80 T3500  complete system. The T3500 with ECC support could have an advantage for some users.
  Since he's not an experienced overclocker his POV on the difficulty of each method may be relevant to many others also. There's an opportunity here to produce some useful information.

The 201MHz may have to do with the 3 channel RAM. 201 is evenly divisible by 3.


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## lexluthermiester (Jul 3, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> The 201MHz may have to do with the 3 channel RAM. 201 is evenly divisible by 3.


Possible! I've never actually dug into it enough to find out why, just went with it. Makes sense though.


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## Retrorockit (Jul 29, 2020)

Well I finally dug into my junk pile and started a Throttlestop project of my own.
I fired up a Dell XPS 420 (LGA775, BTX, DDR2, X38). I just wanted to test some DDR2 4GB modules to see if they were low density. But when they were compatable things started to happen.
QX9650, 12GB DDR2 800, GTX1060 6GB. Alphacool skived copper heatsinks on the VRM MOSFETs. I tried an XPS 720 CPU cooler but it wasn't up to the task, so I installed my custom made 150x50mm Delta (259cfm) fan conversion using that heatpipe (8mm pipes) cooler. Problem solved.
I played with SetFSB and got up to 374MHz, then applied Throttlestop and got to 4.3GHz. No stability there to speak of. But I'll get back to that later.
With Just TS 12.5x333=4.15GHz which is the "normal" overclock for X38 BTX computers. There are few of them at userbenchmark in the Dell T3400 lists.


			Dell Precision WorkStation T3400 Performance Results - UserBenchmark
		

What I really need to do is start over with a pinmod to 400fsb and nail down 10.5x400fsb for 4.2GHz.
That would give a nice base clock of 9.0x400=3.6GHz (nice step up from my existing Optiplex 380 Xeon 3.33Ghz).
A couple of options in the 4-4.2Ghz range, either SetFSB, or TS.
And the nuclear option of editing TS to overclock just 2 cores and try for something in the 4.3-4.4Ghz range.
I was planning on saving the XPS 420 for last after testing on a T3400. But it was laready running, and so I used it to test the 4GB DDR2 modules I had. It's much nicer looking computer than the T 3400 or XPS 410. And this one was owned by a little old lady and only driven on Sundays. It has a 2ndary USB based display on it that can show Temp. Voltage, and clock speed info. I've heard it can be made to work in Win7.
So far I've just run this in the car porch with no internet, and 90*F. Florida weather. Just an OS and some tuning apps. loaded.
I'm using the Dell 425W PSU from a T3400. This gets the wiring length right for a BTX Mid tower, and 3x18A rails available.
It has 2x 6 pin PCIe cables  vs. the single one the 2 rail 375W it came with had.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 1, 2020)

Trying to put some captions in here somewhere. Picture of the XPS420 Multimedia computer.
CPUZ@ 4.32GHZ- all TS overclock 13x333. stable enough to run the short TS benchmark. Out doors PWM fan speeed.
Other CPUZ 4.15GHZ running full TS long benchmark. 4.2GHz faked this with SetFSB 324fsb to represent 10.5x 400 TS overclock. I don't have enough Voltage at boot to do the pimod yet. I'm running the OC utilities form a DVD.
Cooling there's a lot more to be had. The fan barely speeds up. As far as speed I need to get in climate control and rev the fan up and see what happens. This is all 4 cores so far no 2 core overclock yet.




This is whats inside it. A lot of bodging to get the heatpipe cooler with 8mm pipes in there. and then splice 2 different shrouds together to mate up with the AFC1512DG 150x50mm 259cfm fan. So I covered it up with some wood trim.
The front HDD cage was removed and this left room for a 120x38mm cage fan mod. It's a 150cfm version from a T3500. That was a mod for the 2 GPU T3400 but it fit in here so I used it. Both fans are a press fit. A lot of the extra wiring is for the HDD harness which used to run all the way across the case. The big fan was used to cool 2x 130W CPU workstations.


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## SamirD (Aug 2, 2020)

I love it!  It's a stock looking system with a whole lot of mods under the hood.  In the car enthusiast world it would be known as a 'sleeper'.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 2, 2020)

I prefer the term "Flying Shitbox". I've owned a few of them.
Dell could have built and sold this 12 years ago. Alll the pieces were there.


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## KLiKzg (Aug 23, 2020)

Hi all,
have seen that you talk mostly about DELLs here. As I also have one T5500, which I got in Croatia for sthg like $300.
It came with slower 2x E5645, 48GB RAM, ATi 7790 Radeon HD card & HDD.

Update was done to run it on 2x X5670, nVidia 1650 GTX & SSD.
Had some problem booting, but that was fixed with correct cable.
Also added 1 fan in the back of the case, to keep the more airflow going.

As I'm doing the calc on WCG & Asteroid@home or GPUgrid, so working this computer 24/7.
Keeping my temps down is done with Tthrottle problem to keep CPUs under 85°C & GPU under 75°C.

Has anybody got any suggestion for *coolers upgrade* without removing the HDD/SDD bracket?


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## lexluthermiester (Aug 23, 2020)

KLiKzg said:


> have seen that you talk mostly about DELLs here. As I also have one T5500


Throttlestop works on any system from any OEM that has a CPU with an unlocked multi. Dell's just happen to be the most popular for various reasons.


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## ManGupta (Aug 24, 2020)

KLiKzg said:


> Has anybody got any suggestion for *coolers upgrade* without removing the HDD/SDD bracket?



If you are using this CPU Cooler on one of the CPU then you need to replace it first with the copper heatpipe one.




like this one (Dell 0U016F)  

 or this one (Dynatron G17 )



I use Nidec M35105-57 fan attached to he back of the cooler (it costs $2.4 on Aliexpress)  ......... you can go through the post on Page 24 & 29 of this thread.









						7.78US $ 10% OFF|TA350DC M35105 58 NIDEC 92*92*38mm 9238 9cm 12V DC 1.8A 21.6W 130CFM 5700RPM Schneider Inverter Axial Cooling Fan|HVAC Systems & Parts|   - AliExpress
					

Smarter Shopping, Better Living!  Aliexpress.com




					www.aliexpress.com
				




In case of T3500, I use extra fans to cool the NB & SB, but T5500 already have active chipset cooling.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 24, 2020)

The Nidec M35105-57 fan attached to he back of the cooler will help a lot. It's self regulating so just 12V. and Grd. will get it running.
Mangupta runs it in India without A/C  and reports good results. ModDiy has them for $20 new, but it's just an old Dell Dimension Pentium 4 era CPU fan. So they can be found for scrap prices with a little digging around. Due to the thermistor control they need to be outlet only from the CPU
On page 24 there is a Dynatron G17 cooler swap shown on a T5500 MB. It fits the footprint of the stock cooler.








						Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs
					

Always wanted an older Mac Pro...Where'd you put the pics?




					www.techpowerup.com
				



I don't have the 2nd CPU riser to play with so you're on your own there. If it works for that also please post photos here, or in the Dell Workstation Owners Club.


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## KLiKzg (Aug 24, 2020)

ManGupta said:


> If you are using this CPU Cooler on one of the CPU then you need to replace it first with the copper heatpipe one.
> 
> View attachment 166506
> 
> ...


Thanks, though Nidec is not available in Croatia, EU. So will need another one to get, unless I go over internet.



Retrorockit said:


> The Nidec M35105-57 fan attached to he back of the cooler will help a lot. It's self regulating so just 12V. and Grd. will get it running.
> Mangupta runs it in India without A/C  and reports good results. ModDiy has them for $20 new, but it's just an old Dell Dimension Pentium 4 era CPU fan. So they can be found for scrap prices with a little digging around. Due to the thermistor control they need to be outlet only from the CPU
> On page 24 there is a Dynatron G17 cooler swap shown on a T5500 MB. It fits the footprint of the stock cooler.
> 
> ...


That Dynatron is not also available in Croatia.

So far only found Noctua NH-D9DX i4 3U, which is supposed to be under 110mm for 1st fan.
But it's about $90 & for that price I can get water cooling - which is way more better & efficient!

So now, thinking about this Cooler Master Hyper T20, but not sure if will it fit to T5500, as it's not for 1366 processors.
Which is only TDP130, but I have 95W processors...& could even try it without the fan.

Though I'm more concerned about the 2nd one, as that one has so much smaller fins, that it gets clogged frequently. ‍♂
Anybody tested something on 2nd CPU on T5500?


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## ManGupta (Aug 25, 2020)

KLiKzg said:


> So now, thinking about this Cooler Master Hyper T20, but not sure if will it fit to T5500, as it's not for 1366 processors.
> 
> 
> Though I'm more concerned about the 2nd one, as that one has so much smaller fins, that it gets clogged frequently. ‍♂
> Anybody tested something on 2nd CPU on T5500?



Cooler Master Hyper T20 have a Clip Mount System. If the CM CPU Holder Base doesn't fit  you will have to search for another one on internet. On Aliexpress you can get it for 1-2 USD.









						2.28US $ 7% OFF|Desktop All Models 3in1 Cpu Cooler Fan Bracket Heatsink Holder Base For Lga775 1150 1156 1155 775 1366 Or 2011 Am2 Am3 Am4 1700 - Pc Components Cooling & Tools - AliExpress
					

Smarter Shopping, Better Living!  Aliexpress.com




					www.aliexpress.com
				




Regarding 2nd CPU Cooler, If this is your 2nd CPU Cooler, it should be fine. 


It is a cooper Heatpipe cooler with Fan attached. Most of users of T5500 reports that it works fine. T5500 is non overclockable , so the Copper Heatpipe Cooler with  80-90 mm fan should be adequate , even with 24 X 7 Use. Issues like cleaning and maintenance apply on any system - pre-built or custom made.

Most of the T5500 users report issue only with this cooler.

 . Even if you replace it with this cooler 

 and attach a 80-90 mm fan to it, it should be adequate for a Non-Overclockable System. Because most of T3500 users with W3680 find this cooler (with a 80-90 mm fan attached) adequate even for Overclocking.


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## Retrorockit (Aug 25, 2020)

Many overclockers just attach any 80-92mm fan to the heatpipe cooler and report good results. 
There are many other fans available. The 92mm fans come in 25mm,32mm, and 38mm thickness. The thicker fans can move more air at lower rpm and can be quiet due to that. The 2nd CPU fan can be a 4 wire PWM, and run off of the fan header. But Dell uses their own connector and pinout.
The added 1st CPU fan should be thermal control. These are 3 wire fans with a usually blue thermistor visible on the motor because it sticks up into the airflow. The big Nidec was the cooling fan on higher powered Dell Dimension socket 478 computers. Many of them have been discarded over the years. This being the overclocking thread I tend to show the biggest stuff that will fit. But there are a lot of other options for your situation.


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## KLiKzg (Aug 26, 2020)

ManGupta said:


> Cooler Master Hyper T20 have a Clip Mount System. If the CM CPU Holder Base doesn't fit  you will have to search for another one on internet. On Aliexpress you can get it for 1-2 USD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, though the item cams with all parts in: https://edigital.hr/univerzalni-int...r-hyper-t20-ventilator-rr-t20-20fk-r1-p636037


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## ZeusAlpha (Aug 31, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> W3570/80 i7-965/975 are the unlocked 4 core 8T 45nm, and w3680/90 are the 32nm 6 cores 12T. i7-980X/990X also. That's it for LGA1366 The Xeons are 1333 RAM, the i7s 1066.
> LGA775 is all Core2 extremes  65nm X6800,QX6700/6800/6850 45nm QX9650, and 400fsb QX9770 and LGA771 QX9775 unlocked SMP. There are  some mobile Core2 extremes also.
> ASFIK if it boots an unlocked CPU TS can OC it. I haven't tested anything newer. I see a lot of people with 2500K in Dell Optiplexes but nobody seems to be trying this. A lot of computers keep the unlocked CPUs out with a CPU Wattage limit in the BIOS, or Chipset, and some OC will be limited by a weak VRM that won't support Voltage increases. I always check userbenchmark.com for unlocked CPUs running before I would buy one.
> PM me if you want to do the Macho 120. I ended up making a drill fixture to get the holes in the right place. I underestimated it the first time I tried and it bit me.



Hi Retrorockit, I realize this is a very old thread, but I hope you are still around and doing well.  I have several T7500's and am very impressed by your work and guts.  I've been searching all over looking for an "aftermarket" solution that wouldn't require drilling out the motherboard, but it seems that's what you resorted to?  I'd love to learn more about your technique to do the Macho 120.  I already ordered some U016F and plan to add a 90mm fan, which I've read works decently well.  I'm also curious if you could help point me in the right direction for the VRM heatsink, which I have on some of my D881F's.  But I can't find the part number for this anywhere.  I've been considering slapping something in, but I'd really like to find the right ones if they can be found for a fair price.  Thanks in advance.  This is my first post on this forum, but I've been tinkering with and repairing PC's since the first generation 8086.


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## ManGupta (Aug 31, 2020)

ZeusAlpha said:


> Hi Retrorockit, I realize this is a very old thread, but I hope you are still around and doing well.  I have several T7500's and am very impressed by your work and guts.  I've been searching all over looking for an "aftermarket" solution that wouldn't require drilling out the motherboard, but it seems that's what you resorted to?  I'd love to learn more about your technique to do the Macho 120.  I already ordered some U016F and plan to add a 90mm fan, which I've read works decently well.  I'm also curious if you could help point me in the right direction for the VRM heatsink, which I have on some of my D881F's.  But I can't find the part number for this anywhere.  I've been considering slapping something in, but I'd really like to find the right ones if they can be found for a fair price.  Thanks in advance.  This is my first post on this forum, but I've been tinkering with and repairing PC's since the first generation 8086.



Do you use app like Real Temp / Hardware Monitor/ HWinfo ? What CPU temps are you getting Now ?  Are the temps in alarming Zone ?

How do you measure temps of VRM ? Do you use Infrared Thermometer ?

You can search for Retrorockit's earlier post on Dell Workstation Owners Club thread. The one large Aluminium HS, the pic of which you posted may have issue of expansion & Contraction due to heat resulting in the contact with mosfets becoming loose over time.

Retrorockit had suggested many smaller copper HS to apply individually on each mosfet separately like  Alphacool smaller Copper Heatsinks which is also used on GPU RAM.









						Dell Workstation Owners Club
					

But The RDIMM question has merit. The more I read about systems that are socket 1366 based, some of which can use RDIMMS, the more it seems likely that this may be doable. DDR3 RDIMMS are cheap right now. Thinking I might try this with 1rank and 2rank modules and report the results.




					www.techpowerup.com
				












						Dell Workstation Owners Club
					

Internal Speaker for giving Diagnostics Beep Codes This.




					www.techpowerup.com
				












						Dell Workstation Owners Club
					

Internal Speaker for giving Diagnostics Beep Codes This.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Retrorockit (Sep 1, 2020)

The Thermalright hardware works with the Dell heatsink mounting bosses. It's the same thread, no drilling required. Just a little adaptation for height.
be careful with the VRM heatsinking. Some of the components next to them are a little taller, especially on the 2 CPU machines. Also all the VRM are not the same height. A bunch of small individual heatsinks is one solution, the other is a thick enough thermal pad to clear the components and even out the level of the MOSFETs. The T7500 had an even taller cooler available due to the HDD being mounted next to the PSU and not over the CPU1 heatsink. U402F it doesn't get mentioned much because I believe it's too tall to fit in the T3500/5500 cases.


			https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fsc02.alicdn.com%2Fkf%2FHTB1f6wcRpXXXXb4XXXXq6xXFXXXq.jpg&f=1&nofb=1


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## KMO_2000 (Sep 20, 2020)

I recently decided to finally do something nice to my old Asus P6T Deluxe with Core i7 920, and started off down the six-core Xeon rabbit hole, so found my way here. I've spent many hours reading this thread - great stuff. My thanks to all the contributors.

I went with an X5675 initially, but the way it hit the locked 95W TDP limit regularly and wouldn't hold max turbo bugged me, so I decided to go nuts and give the thing a W3690.

I'd always wanted to play around with an unlocked CPU - never did particularly like the "brute force" BCLK approach, so was interested in trying a "softer" overclock, using the multipliers and turbo as designed, retaining the option to go slow. So I started experimenting with BCLK=133MHz.

Learnt lots of interesting things in this thread, but also picked up a number of other tips I think it would be worth sharing. Maybe a few years too late for the X58-specific bits, but hey... Most of this should be applicable to locked X58 T3500-type platforms, and I think some remains applicable to current multiplier-unlocked CPUs. Work done on Windows 7, but I don't think much has changed in Windows 10.

First point is that a BCLK overclock forces the core to go faster, all the time. Whereas if you're using Throttlestop and turbo multipliers, you have to kind of _persuade_ your machine to enter the "turbo zone" to use your increased multipliers. All sorts of subtle settings become important.

One of the most important is the rarely-mentioned "energy-performance bias" MSR register in the CPU, which I've seen very little discussion of, outside of some Linux folks. (I've been monitoring and messing with MSRs using the RW-Everything utility).

Windows sets this energy-performance bias from the selected power plan. Balanced sets it to "5", at which point the W3690 seems very reluctant to enter turbo state given just a single-thread load. Even with Windows telling it to enter power state "27 T" (as Throttlestop would call it) via the PERF_CTL MSR, PERF_STATUS usually reports back at "26", and you see x26.0 in Throttlestop. No Turbo. It's possible that this is due in part to the way Windows smears a single thread across multiple cores - no single core is loaded 100% long enough to trip the "turbo" threshold, perhaps. OS keeps requesting 100%/turbo, CPU can't be bothered, despite there being a flat-out single-thread workload to process, hopping between the cores. An apparently horrible Windows-vs-Intel-Turbo interaction. I gather Linux works better.

When you set Windows to "High performance", it sets the "energy-performance bias" MSR to "0" - ie maximum performance. At that point the W3690 actually seems to ignore PERF_CTL, ie any request for lower processor state, and PERF_STATUS shows it always as "27 T". Multipliers only drop when idle. And Turbo is always attempted. Yay!

(It's important to know that the Power plans have a lot of hidden settings - not just the ones you can modify by default. They are different. You can expose a lot of settings with powercfg commands, but some like the CPU "energy-performance bias" seem to be totally hidden and hard coded: "High performance"=0, "Balanced"=5, "Power saver"=7. Manually poking the register with RW-Everything confirmed that this is the key make-turbo-work difference for "High performance", not any of the other setting differences).

The next point I found important is to *actually use the per-core multiplier settings*. You've got an unlocked core, so do what Intel do by default, and run fewer cores faster. You don't _have_ to limit yourself to your 12-thread stable speed.

In my tests (with auto voltage and standard Vdroop), I established that I was linx/prime95 stable at x29 (3.87GHz), but with immediate linx death at x30 (4GHz). I was then able to get quite a bit better on fewer cores; apparently stable stock voltage multipliers were 29/29/30/30/31/32. I can single-thread linx or prime95 happily at 4.27GHz, stock voltage.  Similarly, overvolting (Vcore 1.4125V, standard droop, CPU PLL 1.86V), I got stable with 32/32/33/33/34/35, so 6-core 4.27GHz, 1-core 4.67GHz. 

I believe to some extent this arises naturally from the Vdroop. As the number of active cores decreases, current goes down, voltage goes up, so maximum speed increases.  And obviously 1-core 4.67GHz is much less of an overheating problem than 6-core would be... 

(Stability testing to establish fewer-core multipliers was using 1-4 threads in linx and prime95. I guess for full robustness I should shut off physical cores in the BIOS or msconfig to let me load 2 threads per core with fewer cores, but in practice the Windows scheduler should never be loading a second thread on a core until all 6 cores are active anyway. If you've activated a fewer-than-6-core multiplier, you're basically not hyperthreading.  I've also not done corresponding testing with LLC compensation - my guess is that there is less to be gained.)

Next, with a 400MHz difference between 6 core and 1 core, you need to actually get into the fewer-core states as much as possible to keep the multiplier up. Again, the Windows scheduler doesn't seem to help - its tendency to spread tasks across all cores tends to push you towards lower multipliers with too many cores active. One tip I found for Windows 7 (maybe not needed for Windows 8+) was to mess with powercfg to unlock the "Processor performance core parking core override" setting, and disable it. When enabled (as by default) Windows 7 always keeps 1 thread per physical core unparked, which encourages the scheduler to spread work across all 6 cores, reducing your turbo multiplier. Once disabled, it will fully park some cores, reducing the number of cores that low-thread loads are spread across.

This seems to work in theory - at least it makes my Throttlestop average multipliers more like "34.6" rather than "34.1", for example - but whether it helps in real life scenarios is harder to say. Should we squeeze extra work into the 4th core, competing with its other users, or do we slow all 4 cores a bit and bring a 5th online for the new work? And I understand there can be latency effects of the parking/unparking, and many like to disable it.

This little chart of all my stable speeds nicely illustrates the difference between a BCLK and a turbo multiplier overclock. The 920 and 5675 were BCLK overclocked, and their +2 or +3 turbo boost is fairly incidental, if you even bother to leave turbo on. But if you're pushing an unlocked chip without raising BCLK, like the W3690 here, the difference between base and turbo frequency becomes huge, and you really have to make sure you don't end up pootling at 3.5GHz.





Given the above - the W3690 does have one minor advantage over the cheaper W3680 - the locked base multiplier is one step up. So if for whatever reason the turbo does fail to engage,  you're left on a faster base clock. That means you may often get better performance in "Balanced" or "Power saver" modes, and there may be a slight responsiveness benefit there. But once you've got the turbo engaged in "High performance" with overclocked multipliers, there's no real difference.

Another tip is to set a sensible TDP limit. You don't have to set it to "high enough to never lower the multiplier". Set it to "high enough to never limit in a real interactive application". Letting maniacs like linx or prime95 get power-limited seems reasonable, if it's going to stop your CPU frying and your fans going berserk. My tests showed that 150W was sufficient for sustained 4.27GHz in Cinebench, and stopped linx getting close to 90C, so I've left it there. (Just raising it when I _want_ to stress it).

Given all of this, a BCLK overclock is certainly more consistent for peak performance, but the multiplier overclock turns out to be great fun with just as many knobs. Maybe can't quite reach the heights of a BCLK overclock, but perhaps a better daily drive.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 21, 2020)

KMO_2000 said:


> I've spent many hours reading this thread - great stuff. My thanks to all the contributors.


I think I can speak for everyone here when I say Welcome to TPU! Glad you found our discussions helpful! Looks like you had some fun!


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## Retrorockit (Sep 21, 2020)

Thanks for that comparison. Most people take an either or approach to this, but you've done the research on BCLK, VS TS on an aftermarket MB.
Many of us here use TS on locked BIOS computers and workstations which can be very affordable. I've felt for a while that an overclock on 1 or 2 cores would be better if you don't need 12 cores.
FWIW it's possible to edit TS in a word processor to only apply to 2 cores # 0,1 .
It's nice to have a knowledgeable BCLK overclocker give TS overclocking a good comparison test.


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## KMO_2000 (Sep 21, 2020)

Been doing a bit more stress testing. I think my default-voltage 29/29/30/30/31/32 was a bit optimistic for the fewer-core multipliers. Had a couple of failures in normal use, despite no problems in the stress tests. Still working on it.

Looked into shutting cores down for maximum stress, so I can run all-thread linx/prime95 on fewer cores. There are 2 apparent ways to do this - set the number of processors to 8 in msconfig, or set the number of cores to 4 in the BIOS. For some reason limiting the processors in msconfig stops turbo ever activating. Don't know why, and seen no discussion of it. But if you set to 4 cores in the BIOS, you can turbo fine on the 4 cores. And that did show 8-thread 4-core x30 linx wasn't stable. Dialled that back to x29, and I'll see if that helps with my normal-workload stability.

Just wrote out a load of stuff urging unclewebb to look into exposing the energy-performance bias (EPB) register, but seems I've been somewhat fooled by Throttlestop's adaptive UI. It _does_ already have the corresponding EPP control for newer CPUs. So, my request would be: expose the EPB control instead if EPP ("SpeedShift"?) is not enabled. Looks like if you poke the MSR, Windows doesn't touch it again until you change power plan. I imagine whatever setting flow you've found works for the EPP MSR in Windows will also work for EPB.

For comparison, it looks like Linux only lets you set it to 0,4,8 or 12. There was a recent patch to let you set more values to the EPP register, for finer-grained tuning, although the older EPB register is still limited to 4 values.

Done a bit of fiddling, and it's possible that in the W3690, it isn't particularly fine-grained. Not convinced I can see a difference from 0-3, and 4 is the point at which it starts getting resistant to single-thread turbo, similar to Balanced's 5. Given that the original Linux EPB code (dating back to Nehalem) only bothered with 4 values, and it was implemented by an Intel guy, it seems likely that only 2 bits of the 4-bit value are significant for that chip. It's possible there's finer EPB control on later chips, but maybe not until EPP is available anyway.

Regardless, exposing the EPB setting in Throttlestop would let you do things like running Balanced power plan (for the balanced SpeedStep/PERF_CTL response), but with low EPB, so the core isn't reluctant to Turbo once the Windows governor has requested 100% via PERF_CTL. I imagine this would already work for people with new chips and EPP - if they show the same turbo reluctance.

After more targetted stress testing, using reduced core count in the BIOS, I've scaled my multipliers back to 29/29/29/30/31/31 (default auto voltage, about 1.28V) and 32/32/33/33/34/34 (1.41V). Lost the +1 multiplier bonuses for single-core, and had to not speed up at 4-core at default voltage.

Another thing to think about - if you're running a limited-core boot to do synthetic soak tests for your limited-core multipliers, your "100% load" tests won't run as hot as an all-core system could get. So I took manual control of the fans to get the temperature back up to the same level as the all-core tests to run them hot, so I don't get caught out by a hot shift to fewer cores in a normal boot.


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## KMO_2000 (Sep 23, 2020)

KMO_2000 said:


> One tip I found for Windows 7 (maybe not needed for Windows 8+) was to mess with powercfg to unlock the "Processor performance core parking core override" setting, and disable it. ... Once disabled, it will fully park some cores, reducing the number of cores that low-thread loads are spread across.



Okay, don't do this. Yes it does what I described, but the downside is significant latency problems. Don't know why I didn't notice sooner - probably running too many synthetic loads 

People do generally recommend turning core parking off altogether to solve latency problems - if you turn that override off so it parks more than half the cores, latency problems are severe. (Audio pops, mouse pointer judder, and like 20x the "good" latency measured in LatencyMon when I checked). This is no doubt why the override was added in the first place.

Having backed off on that, I went to dig deeper into core parking - some claim it's there to help balance hyperthreading, by shutting off one thread per physical core when it can. Others go further and claim it's the only part of the Windows scheduler that understands hyperthreading, so the scheduler doesn't work properly at all without it.

I found that's not true - the scheduler understands logical cores fine and tries to distribute work on different physical cores when possible, even if everything is unparked. It's not always obvious, as it can look like all cores are busy in the task manager, but if you look carefully, you'll see that when running 6 tasks on a 12-thread CPU, the usage graphs within each pair are mirror images. Logical core 1 is busy when logical core 0 isn't.

The Windows scheduler is quite lax about keeping stuff on a core long term, but it does try short term. This old article talks a bit about the way it works, and I've got some good diagrams showing exactly how it works in practice. Bit off topic for the thread, but I think it'll interest people who are very interested in being in Turbo mode.

Here is a timeline of a fraction of a second running 5 linx tasks, captured on Windows 7 using Windows Process Recorder:





As we start, the system is lovely and stable, with the 5 linx tasks each on 5 separate physical cores. Minor background tasks are tending to favour the free physical core (6/7).

Then there's a burst of activity at 19.495s. For some reason the second task jumps from CPU 2 to CPU 4 - there are now 2 tasks on one core (CPUs 4/5).

But a short while later (19.525s), the system has some sort of periodic audit and realises it's settled in a bad situation and it tidies up, shoving the third task from CPU 5 to CPU 7 to get back to 1 task per physical core.

The rest of the trace is nice and balanced with background work mainly using the now-idle second core. Somewhat later there's another slight shuffle at 19.60s, but that's just a thread moving within one core, so uninteresting.

Now, if cores had been parked, there might be less scope for random shuffling, and we might have avoided that 30ms of double-loading a core, BUT there would also be fewer free threads to run background tasks on, so there could have been more interference with the linx tasks anyway. My guess is that core parking may have been necessary for good HT performance in older scheduler versions, but it's no longer necessary, and is not active by default in Windows 10.

Now, we can look at WHY the task jumped. It's actually somewhat rational, from a scheduling point of view, and given the way the scheduler works (which appears consistent with that 1997 article).






What happened at 19.49275s is someone (Steam!) decided to fire off 7 parallel tasks of work in red. And on top of that, a couple of other apps decide this is a good time to do some processing in green, light blue and yellow. This might be coincidence, or it might be several applications all using a low resolution clock and all deciding to do their work at the same time ("on the hour" sort of thing).

At first we're fine. If processors are idle, then new ready tasks are assigned to them. The 7 Steam tasks start the 7 idle logical CPUs and run on them. But then there's more work. When the light blue task is ready, we are out of CPUs. That light blue task last ran on CPU 2, and as there are no CPUs free and it is deemed more important than the linx task currently on CPU 2, the linx task is booted off.

When the red Steam tasks finish, other tasks take over on the CPUs. By chance, very soon after being booted off CPU 2, the linx task is chosen to take over CPU 4. (If that red task had finished a tiny bit earlier, the light blue would have gone there in the first place). So there are now 2 linx tasks sharing a core, but at this point there are 10 tasks active, so someone has to share. And it stays there, while the light blue then green task use the second core it was on.

When the system calms down again, so there are 6 or fewer active tasks, at that point the scheduler takes time to recheck distribution and rebalance the tasks still running on the same physical core, which we saw in the previous diagram.

I found those diagrams interesting - you can see at a micro level why there's so much noise in the task manager. Whenever there are more than 12 tasks running at once, things all shuffle. And that is quite common. Sometimes a physical core will be double-loaded, but it doesn't persist long.

In all my traces, it was Steam, just sitting there on the task bar, causing the most disruption, periodically spawning those 7 simultaneous threads, when it probably could have run 1 thread. (It's more multithreaded than most games!). I'm sure it could have done whatever it was doing 1 at a time. It's those sort of tasks that the core parking basically tames, stopping them from immediately running on all cores until the load is more sustained.

And that is why hyperthreading sometimes wins and sometimes loses with light loads - depends whether the benefit of having more free threads outweighs the losses from brief intervals where the system is incorrectly balanced.

The scheduler could be more aggressive at rebalancing, I'm sure, but there would be another cost to that - it's yet another move, which has a cache cost, and the move might turn out to be unnecessary. Maybe one of the tasks on the double-load core was about to finish anyway.

TLDR - the Windows scheduler isn't totally dumb. It may look like chaos in the Task Manager, but it's putting some effort in. And if you see yourself not getting close to your target 1-core or 2-core average multiplier, it's because there really are lots of silly little tasks that keep wanting to run in the background, briefly waking other 3rd, 4th or more cores.


----------



## KLiKzg (Sep 24, 2020)

ManGupta said:


> Cooler Master Hyper T20 have a Clip Mount System. If the CM CPU Holder Base doesn't fit  you will have to search for another one on internet. On Aliexpress you can get it for 1-2 USD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just put yesterday Cooler Master Hyper T20 in my system, though not T5500, but on Intel DP35DP board running X3360 on 100% load in BOINC...achieved only 75°C.

The DELL version of cooler from T7500 View attachment 166614  is on it's way to me...so going to put "original equipment" into my workstation. Costed me around $20.

Now I'm running 2x 80mm fans on exit of T5500, so it's quite the draft there! Will see how the temp. will come down in T5500, as they run now on 85°C (limit what Tthrottle was set).


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## KMO_2000 (Sep 26, 2020)

*Juggling voltage + multipliers during sleep on Nehalem/Westmere*

I'm having sleep problems, but it's because I'm trying to get clever and modify voltage while running. 

I've been running with the BIOS set to auto core voltage, and ThrottleStop has my 29-31 multipliers for that in its default profile. That's plenty fast enough most of the time - don't have to always run hot. Only the Vtt is raised by default for the 3.2GHz Uncore and DDR1600.

I can use Asus TurboV while running to shift up to 1.4V, and then select my high voltage 32-34 multiplier profile in ThrottleStop. (Taking care not to click "Save", cos I don't want that reselected next boot).





This works fine, unless I sleep. The problem is that after sleep the system initially comes up at auto voltage. The TurboV app does restore the higher voltage, but apparently not fast enough. The system often crashes when waking, presumably because it's briefly on high multipliers and auto voltage.

If ThrottleStop could lower the multipliers when sleeping and/or delay re-raising them a bit, that would work. (I haven't checked whether the sleep restores previous multipliers or BIOS defaults, so maybe it just needs a delay).

Is there any way to achieve this? I can see some discussion of some experimental option here, but can't see it in current version 9.2.

Obviously I can switch Throttlestop profile myself before sleeping, but I have to remember, and no good if it's an automatic timed sleep.

Or are there any other utilities out there I could try instead of Asus TurboV to play with the PMBus voltage controller? (ASP0800/ Asus EPU 2). HWiNFO 64 can read its registers but can anything poke it? If I had something with a command-line I could make sure that ThrottleStop ran it before selecting the higher multipliers (preventing instant death if I accidentally click on that profile at low voltage), and maybe that would cover the sleep case.

At least I did learn one useful thing - I was annoyed that TurboV has no "auto voltage" option, so I couldn't properly revert raising to 1.4V. But if I quit the TurboV app then sleep/resume, then that l end up back to the BIOS "auto" default.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 26, 2020)

KMO_2000 said:


> This works fine, unless I sleep.


Turn off sleep. I never use it because generally it causes more problems than it is meant to solve, like yours for example.


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## unclewebb (Sep 26, 2020)

@KMO_2000 - ThrottleStop cannot control the CPU voltage on Nehalem or Westmere processors. That experimental feature you found is only for 4th Gen and newer processors that have an integrated voltage regulator.

ThrottleStop does have a few hidden features including a time delay profile switching feature. If your computer resets the turbo multipliers to their default values during sleep, it might be possible to use some features that ThrottleStop already has to solve your problem. I just added a couple of lines of code to ThrottleStop to prevent the turbo multipliers from being immediately applied after resuming from sleep. This should give TurboV some time to increase the voltage first. The amount of time before the turbo ratios are applied can be adjusted by setting an option in the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file. 

I have a soft spot in my head for the W3680 / W3690. Amazing processors for their day. With extra voltage they can run fully loaded at almost 4.7 GHz just by using the 35 multiplier.

Give me a few hours and I will send you a message with a download link and instructions on how to set this new feature up.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 26, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> I have a soft spot in my head for the W3680


I'm running them in several systems. That CPU is the cream of the crop for the systems they're in. Thanks to TS, OCing them is a breeze. Can't thank you enough!


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## KMO_2000 (Sep 27, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> Give me a few hours and I will send you a message with a download link and instructions on how to set this new feature up.



You're a gent. Seems to work nicely. (Sent more technical feedback via message).

Here's my Cinebench R20 results:

First using auto core voltage at x29/29/29/30/31/31 (I estimate the chip's max core auto VID as 1.275V; Vtt is manually raised to 1.275V for the DDR1600).



And voltage pumped up to 1.4125V for x32/32/33/33/34/34:



Power limit is set to 150W; all-core runs held x29.0 (3.87GHz) and x32.0 (4.27GHz), and single-core runs averaged around x30.6 (4.1GHz) and x33.6 (4.5GHz). All-core temps maxed at 66C and 75C as shown (with a quiet fan profile, so that would have been at ~50% and ~80% CPU fan).

Don't really want to push my only W3690 any higher than that. Not that desperate for speed, and at that voltage LinX or prime95 get super hot. It's good air cooling, but not a miracle worker, and my GF gets annoyed if I blow too hard 

I have raised the high-voltage Vtt a bit recently for stability - I will have to experiment to see if I can now dial back the core a little.

Quite happy with this set-up. I'm using a modified High-Performance profile with the minimum processor state at 0% so it can spend a lot of its time chilling down at 0.96V. But being a High-Performance profile it will jump straight up to 100% processor state as soon as there's load, and the chip will go straight to full turbo.

*Update:*

Just figured out one of my other instability problems - I thought I'd set the BIOS to x29 multiplier (so 29/29/29/29/29/29 turbo), then ThrottleStop could take over with 29/29/29/30/31/31.

Made the whole thing unstable.

Reason is simple - in the Asus P6T BIOS, if you set x29, then "Auto" voltage sets a fixed 1.225V, rather than tracking the VID output. Presumably they think they're increasing it for an overclock, but this chip has a high VID, so that actually lowers it. The chip requests 1.275V at x29 or higher.

So it's vitally important - at least for me - to set "Auto" multiplier in the BIOS.


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## unclewebb (Sep 28, 2020)

KMO_2000 said:


> Don't really want to push my only W3690 any higher than that.


No worries. The W3680 is down to $40 bucks on EBay. An unlocked multiplier and lots of guaranteed fun at that price. Too bad there is not a TurboV or similar program available to increase the CPU voltage when using these unlocked CPUs on a Dell or HP motherboard. Some more voltage is usually good for another 500 MHz, 600 MHz or 700 MHz, depending on how crazy you want to go.


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## DanielLong (Oct 3, 2020)

Hello guys! I would have some tips for the developers of ThrottleStop but I don't know how to reach them.
Basically I have 3 thoughts:

Please remove all the functions from the main GUI which are obsolete, because I think it just makes the tool user-unfriendly and less intuitive. Half of the options cannot be used anymore, like clock modulation, speedstep, etc. Instead of them, I would add here the power limit of the CPU, because in my opinion that is a much more important setting.
Please somehow make it more visible that the Speed Shift EPP value can be set differently for each profile. It was not obvious for me.
Please make the CPU power limit configurable for each profile. In my opinion this would be the best option, because for example 15W is far enough for me on battery mode, but running on AC I would prefer 30-35W.
Or please point me to the topic where I could get into contact with the developers!


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## Retrorockit (Oct 4, 2020)

DanielLong said:


> Hello guys! I would have some tips for the developers of ThrottleStop but I don't know how to reach them.
> Basically I have 3 thoughts:
> 
> Please remove all the functions from the main GUI which are obsolete, because I think it just makes the tool user-unfriendly and less intuitive. Half of the options cannot be used anymore, like clock modulation, speedstep, etc. Instead of them, I would add here the power limit of the CPU, because in my opinion that is a much more important setting.
> ...



Uncleweb is the developer of Throttlestop. But Notebook Review has a large Throttlestop forum for notebook users. This thread is a spinoff for overclocking desktop PCs.





						TechnologyGuide
					

Thank you for visiting the TechnologyGuide network. Unfortunately, these forums are no longer active. We extend a heartfelt thank you to the entire community for their steadfast support—it is really you, our readers, that drove




					forum.notebookreview.com
				



 I actually use the obsolete settings to overclock old Dell BTX computers but I use version 6.00 to do this so I don't have to bother with all the newer settings.
 I think Uncleweb does a pretty good job of providing something for everyone ( even a retro grouch like me).


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## unclewebb (Oct 4, 2020)

DanielLong said:


> some tips for the developers of ThrottleStop


There is only one ThrottleStop developer. Just me. I would love to redesign the ThrottleStop user interface but user interface design is obviously not my strength. None of the features like FIVR voltage control and turbo power limits existed when I first started working on ThrottleStop.  One tool that supports everything from Core 2 Duo to 11th Gen Core i has resulted in the user interface becoming a bit of a mess. If ThrottleStop was a commercial app, I could hire a team to fix it up. With zero revenue, any team I hire is not going to last very long.



DanielLong said:


> remove all the functions from the main GUI which are obsolete


Some 8th and 9th Gen computers do not use Speed Shift Technology. They still use SpeedStep and the Set Multiplier function to control the CPU speed. Clock Modulation, Disable Turbo, BD PROCHOT and C1E are used on every Intel Core i CPU released since 2008. If I start removing or hiding the features that are not important to you, I will immediately have a pile of complaints from users that still use these features. 

ThrottleStop is a utility program. Check a few boxes and minimize it to the system tray like everyone else does. 

Being able to set different power limits for each profile is a great idea. If I have time, I will add that feature to ThrottleStop this winter. 



DanielLong said:


> where I could get into contact with the developers


I am not too hard to find. Have a look in your ThrottleStop folder. My name and email address should be in the ReadMe file.


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## KLiKzg (Oct 18, 2020)

ManGupta said:


> If you are using this CPU Cooler on one of the CPU then you need to replace it first with the copper heatpipe one.
> 
> View attachment 166506
> 
> ...


Recently I bought one cooler on eBay.
Unfortunately, it came:
- bent:





- corroded









So asked for a return of money & purchased another one.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 18, 2020)

KLiKzg said:


> Recently I bought one cooler on eBay.
> Unfortunately, it came:
> - bent:


That doesn't look too bad, just gently bend it back.


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## unclewebb (Oct 18, 2020)

KLiKzg said:


> So asked for a return of money


If it worked OK I would not have bothered. 

When you get the new one, remember to cable tie a case fan or similar to the side of it. Those coolers work great with a little bit of airflow going through them. 



http://imgur.com/Ft1cXJz


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## ManGupta (Oct 25, 2020)

KLiKzg said:


> Recently I bought one cooler on eBay.
> Unfortunately, it came:
> - bent:
> 
> ...



Although with some effort it was workable but since you already returned ...... so when you get another one .... remember to lap the bottom of HS to  get rid of any corrosion. just add a 90 mm  or 80 mm fan to it for airflow, and it will work fine.


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## KLiKzg (Oct 25, 2020)

Just wondering, did anyone experiment with a original cooler from extra slot, to be on MBO?
Or put sthg else, from later years T76xx series on T5500?


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## Retrorockit (Oct 25, 2020)

The 2nd slot cooler is the same except for no notched corner to clear the wiring harness. The t7500 had a taller cooler that would require removal of the HDD tray and might not fit inside the T3500 case anyway. At various places in this thread there have been other coolers/fans installed in these. But I just did the physical installation to see what would fit and didn't test them.
 The T3xxx, and T5xxx are thin mid towers designed to be rack mounted. The T7xxx are monstrous in all dimensions.


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## KLiKzg (Oct 27, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> The 2nd slot cooler is the same except for no notched corner to clear the wiring harness. The t7500 had a taller cooler that would require removal of the HDD tray and might not fit inside the T3500 case anyway. At various places in this thread there have been other coolers/fans installed in these. But I just did the physical installation to see what would fit and didn't test them.
> The T3xxx, and T5xxx are thin mid towers designed to be rack mounted. The T7xxx are monstrous in all dimensions.


Was thinking more of these:





has anyone tried to fit them into Tx500 cases?


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## Retrorockit (Oct 27, 2020)

In post#584 here the similar Dynatron G17 was installed with a bigger fan mod.
Dell stayed with the LGA1366 footprint on the T3500 but went their own way with mounting hardware.
There are not a lot of people modding these computers. So in many cases you will be the first one to try something. But that looks like a very good choice. Basically Dell created a different heatsink for almost every system they sold, and sometimes more than 1 depending on the CPU options. Sometimes they interchange easily, sometimes they don't. It usually doesn't cost very much to try one.


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## Nisargadatta (Oct 31, 2020)

Hey guys, I have a W3680 on a Z400 and wondering if it's possible to increase multiplier by .5 increments through .ini file or registry. Btw, theres a way to also increase fsb using setfsb to at least 136 on the HP Z400:










Hopefully you guys on the Dell's have already found a way to do this, if not maybe someone has time to find the right pll on the list...

EDIT: The person above has since posted video at 138 fsb speed, where I was only able to get mine up to 136.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 31, 2020)

Throttlestop can increase multiplier easily on a W3680 to any setting the CPU provides, and with a little tweaking of power settings raise the voltage also. Around page 4 of this thread Unclewebb goes through the process. If you want to you you should be able to use Throttlestop to raise the Voltage and maybe get more out of SetFSB. The Z400 follows the ATX layout more closely than the T3500 but has a borked PSU MB pinout that you need to be careful of. They stayed with a 4 pin CPU connector and added a couple extra 12V. leads to the 24 pin cable. Throttlestop deals directly with the unlocked CPU through Windows and doesn't need the PLL number to do so. This thread is not a  Dell only forum. It seems that way because of my own personal hobby of overclocking Dells, and their ready availability. But your Z400 is very welcome here. Throttlestop software should produce a very good result on that. Especially if you get some aftermarket cooling installed.
For SetFSB I would look at the X5687 4C/8T which has 3.86GHz turbo speed to start with. The Voltage and multiplier are locked, but the 4 cores may allow the FSB to go higher.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 31, 2020)

Nisargadatta said:


> Hey guys, I have a W3680 on a Z400 and wondering if it's possible to increase multiplier by .5 increments through .ini file or registry.


That would be a hard no. Unfortunately, the 1366 platform was not made with any way to do fractional increments to the multiplier.


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## Retrorockit (Oct 31, 2020)

The fractional increments probably applied to LGA775/771 where the FSB was already higher in the 266/333 range. At 133 BCLK it's already the same thing.
I would suggest TS for the main overclock and tweak with SetFSB for incremental tuning.


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## Nisargadatta (Oct 31, 2020)

I forgot to mention I am already using Throttlestop but thanks for the reply Retro. And thanks for clearing that up for me Lex!

I agree with what you mention about  using SetFsb for incremental tuning. And since that method also increases both ram and cpu uncore speeds, it makes sense to find how high you can go with that first...if available ofc.  Though it seems like the fsb increases one gets on oem platforms are very very small 

EDIT: reading this over maybe it's not clear I agree with you to use both ThrottleStop and Setfsb along side each other.  Just saying to increase fsb speed as far as you can before increasing the multiplier with Throttlestop on unlocked cpus like the W3680/W3690. This of course if one in interested in squeezing every last little bit of performance on a locked oem platform.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 1, 2020)

My approach would be to see how far you can get with TS because it's so easy and so stable due to not changing a lot of other settings.
Get whatever cooling mods you need working,then I would start dropping  multipliers and see what you can get back with SetFSB.
Sometimes with SetFSB it's lack of Voltage, sometimes the chipset just doesn't cooperate. Each system will respond differently to FSB vs Multiplier overclocking.
We would all be interested in seeing what results you are getting with that system.


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## Nisargadatta (Nov 2, 2020)

I don't do any crazy 24 hr stress testing or anything like that, but I have yet to crash during any gaming at 4,080 mhz(((TS multiplier of 30 + Setfsb 136mhz))) . I run a tweaked windows with dwm disabled so I can't take screenshots without re enabling it first. But I have managed a score of 932 on Cinebench R15, but that was at a clock speed of over 4.1ghz.  At those speeds a game like BFV will just close so I don't ever go above that. The performance in that game is not great either with this old system, going under 60fps whenever there's a lot happening on screen. Understandable of course since it is a decade old platform and that game is quite cpu intensive. 

I will try to get some screenshots and pics of this old set up when I have a bit more time. I got a Deepcool Gammaxx 400 on the cpu and it never goes into 60's, a 90mm delta fan on the vrm and a similar 80mm fan on the northbridge heatsink. Forgot to mention I use a Rx 580 on this thing powered by an extra psu...it's quite a monstrosity. The main/original psu is 475 watts so I don't wanna be pushing it to its limits since it's so old.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 2, 2020)

You didn't mention your RAM setup. Some of the Z400 MB had 4 RAM slots, But I think with the W3680 yours should have 6.
They all should support 3 channel RAM. Sometimes this gets overlooked,and it makes a big difference.
But you're getting about the same speed as Dell T3500 users, and have that advantage of using aftermarket cooling solutions that many people may already own.
 Could you do a run at userbenchmark.com. It's not much of a stress test, but it shows how your system compares to about 3000  other Z400 computers. The other overclocks I saw there were  3.9GHz, so you might have the highest CPU score.


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## Nisargadatta (Nov 2, 2020)

6 slot triple channel ..12 gb ram.

Its mixed ram, I think the userbenchmark didnt like that....just ran that right now:



			HP Z400 Workstation Performance Results - UserBenchmark
		


The cpu clockspeed was at the mentioned 4,080mhz but it doesnt seem to show that.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 2, 2020)

Sometimes software overclocks aren't detected correctly. It depends on when they load relative to what's being sampled. It may be SetFSB that's getting undetected.
With userbenchmark you could probably run it at the highest clock speed. But it looks like  83% CPU is what those systems do.
The RX580 equals a GTX1060 6GB, so the midrange GPU is holding it back. But there is a huge price jump to get anything better, so probably the right choice for an old budget gaming rig.
 The memory score may be based on latency which would be average and not take into account the 50% bandwidth increase 3 channel provides.
They're all scoring at that level. Even the ones gaming at 116%.
 These things don't tend to have any bottlenecks. An expensive GPU can be moved forward to a later system. I think 60fps is pretty reasonable for a mid range GPU.
 A GTX 1070 would help a lot, but it would want 18GB of RAM to support it. Turning off Hyperthreading may allow a higher speed for single thread gaming.
 Thanks for bringing your Z400 to the forum. i don't see any reason they shouldn't be as popular  as the Dell T3500.


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## unclewebb (Nov 2, 2020)

Retrorockit said:


> Sometimes software overclocks aren't detected correctly.


Windows calibrates some of the timers it uses when you first boot up. After using SetFSB, you have to make sure that your Windows timers are still in sync. If the timers are not in sync and a benchmark program does not compensate for this, it might show zero improvement even when there was an improvement.

@Nisargadatta - If you want to test for this problem try running WinTimerTester for about a minute. It will show you if your internal Windows timers are running in sync or not.

WinTimerTester 1.1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0dpSo9k93jDZlZ6NWNlV0RTcUU/view?usp=sharing

Run the program for about a minute. This should be long enough to test if your timers are working properly. Both timers should measure an equal amount of time so the ratio between these timers should quickly trend towards 1:1.


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## Nisargadatta (Nov 3, 2020)

Retro, thanks for the tips. I would probably have HT off is it wasn't for battlefield games loving all the cores and threads it can get. The max fps may be higher with HT disabled, but the 1% and .1% lows are lower in those games.

Hey unclewebb, I just remembered that I have HPET disabled so it's probably that messing things up along with setfbs. I did run WinTimerTester and it shows a frequency of around 3.2 mhz with a ratio quickly switching between .99999 and 1. I have also forced a timer resolution of .5 using ThrottleStop which is probably affecting things as well. Reason for all these shenanigans is that I find my pc to be far more responsive with all these tweaks. I even have an alternate shell on windows that makes the system run nicely with the lack of dwm in the background.

I probably wouldn't have bothered with all this on a more modern platform tbh. The lack of AVX support also means some applications will run poorly or will just not run at all. Horizon Zero Dawn, a game that came out on Pc this year won't even launch on any x58 chip. Don't get me wrong, I love this old hardware and it can do very well in many applications. I know you regulars on this forum are very aware of it's limitations but just felt I should leave this here for those with less experience.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 3, 2020)

Throttlestop supports newer CPUs, and Intel XTU with support form HWBOT becomes a similar option also. This looks like a Dell/X58 forum because that's what users have chosen to pursue. HP Modders have overclocked the Z420 with XTU. So later CPUs can be overclocked on locked BIOS computers. Dell threw a couple curves on the T36xx series by using a 2 cpu chipset, and CPUs on the single CPU workstations. Plus a proprietary server style hot swappable PSU. So HP may become more popular for newer CPUs. There are many unlocked V series Xeons out there. There are also some firmware updates that will lock some of them back up. So AVX support is available to anyone who feels the need for it.


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## Nisargadatta (Nov 3, 2020)

ThrottleStop is an awesome tool and I use it on my 8th gen intel laptop as well. From my experience, it is way better than what I've ever been able to do with XTU...even raised the temp limits on my laptop thanks to unclewebb's latest versions.

I think old x58 Oems are still great if one can find them either for free or for a very low price. The chips are dirt cheap and since there's a large surplus of them, the Chinese have been putting together "new" motherboards just to get rid of them. The same can be said for x79 and x99 chipset, though those processors still demand higher prices...especially the unlocked versions. You see a few youtubers shilling these things, and it just doesn't make sense when you can find 1st and 2nd gen Ryzen on the used maket that will outperform these for not much more cost.

 This thread is great and I know its not limited to any particular brand or platform. Personally, I think people should stay away from these Frankenstein Chinese motherboards and go with an OEM as long as the price is right.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 3, 2020)

The Ryzen is a game changer for budget computing. I haven't priced the many unlocked Sandy/Ivy Bridge Xeons, too many to keep track of. Unofficail unlocked CPUs can be a bargain compared to the extreme series CPUs. The workstations that run them still bring a few hundred dollars though.
Thanks for the comparo on TS vs. XTU.
 I just didn't want anyone new to the thread to think TS overclocking didn't support AVX due to the focus on X58 that exists here.


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## Nisargadatta (Nov 4, 2020)

Yeah sorry, what I meant to say was that the x58 processors do not have the AVX instruction set. And its very possible more and more games and applications will require AVX/AVX2 to run.  Just something to keep in mind for those looking through this thread, wanting to get into the 1366 platform at this point in time. Even though it is old, it's still amazing at what it can do in certain applications.

Maybe now that Ryzen has gotten a lot better, Intel will become the new budget option.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 4, 2020)

Nisargadatta said:


> And its very possible more and more games and applications will require AVX/AVX2 to run.


This is true. I haven't seen it personally, but it's only a matter of time.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 4, 2020)

Now a 4GHz  QX6800 without SSE4 has some real limitations!


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## Goldbricker (Nov 5, 2020)

Hi, Retrorockit let's move the discussion over here. My Dell E520 system DOES have a QX6800:







So, as a safe first step I could set the Voltage higher say 1.45 and multiplier 13 that seems sensible? 

One thing that confuses is that in TS I set the voltage to 1.45 and Multiplier to 13 but I don't see any increase in core speed. Am I missing a step? Previously I found that rebooting applied the change but this seems a bit risky.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 5, 2020)

Goldbricker said:


> So, as a safe first step I could set the Voltage higher say 1.45


1.4v would be a wiser step, even for the 65nm process Kentsfield's.

BTW, welcome to TPU!


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## unclewebb (Nov 5, 2020)

Goldbricker said:


> One thing that confuses is that in TS


Post a screenshot of ThrottleStop so I can see your settings. After setting your voltage and multiplier did you press the Turn On button?


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## Retrorockit (Nov 5, 2020)

Glad to see you have The G0 Version of the QX6800. Those MB don't make a lot of Voltage stock. If you put in a setting  it can't  produce you just get a lower Voltage. Heatsinking the VRM Mosfets is worth about .05V.  Thin copper flags glued to the vertically mounted MOSFETs works. You have to be careful of the ones near the cooling shroud that they aren't too high, and that air can get to the ones behind the mounting post for the cooler.
In a couple places Enzotech MOS1 copper sinks which can be bent like copper wires work well.
The real increase in Voltage comes when you power the Fan off of a Molex. This is worth .1V. It allows your voltage to start .05V. lower, and go .05V higher. The starting .05V. lower for the same clock speed is worth doing and helps with Lex's concern of high Voltages. A small fan on the NB wired to the +,- terminals of the fan header will avoid a fan fail BIOS error that must be cleared manually. Don't use superglue, it off gases when heated and will ruin the optical drives. I use the 2 part Arctic epoxy that's made for this. Use the blue and yellow leads from the MB fan header for RPM, and PWM to control the fan. If it crashes when the fan speeds up then you need this.
Lex is a more by the book workstation user than I am. When these were $1000 chips caution was well advised. My approach is to keep the temperature within reason ,and have some fun with them. You should be able to run games and GPU benchmarks at 3.73Ghz, and CPUZ runs at 4Ghz like the one in my sig. The AFC 1512DG fan is cheap and just about a drop in for those. It's 150x50mm and 1.8A. 260CFM The Dell BTX MB header can handle it. But Molex power will be needed to get to 3.73GHz.
For cooling I always lap my heatsink and CPU. Worth about 3*C.
I'm assuming you have the  D9729 heat pipe cooler that fits those. It's an old school tight fin cooler and might benefit from a Nidec M35105-57 fan stuck to the back of it. This is an old Dell fan that can be found cheap. It just needs 12V. to run. It has a thermistor control built in.
The T9303 cooler has different heatpipe layout but fits otherwise and has a wider fin spacing and cools better. Probably doesn't need the Nidec.
Bad capacitors were common on those systems, and that's what took mine down. So look them over before you invest too much effort into this.
The big fan powered off of Molex mod will probably get you to 3.73Ghz. I had done the MOSFET coolers first so can't be sure. BTX MOSFET cooling is very good to start with.
Back in 2015 when I was doing that I ran the GFB1212VHG 2 motor fan which is not as good as the AFC1512 mod.
I have a recapped MB, and some more extreme cooling mods to try on an E520 to push it a little further. But I've been busy with other things lately. When you get this up to speed the guys at the TPU Nostalgic Hardware Club would probably get a kick out of it.
 I had an aftermarket single rail PSU in mine  EVGA Supernova B2 which has enough 5V. power for those older computers. I mention this because at 3.73GHZ you might be drawing too much power for the multi rail Dell PSU. It has a 215W limit on each rail.


----------



## Goldbricker (Nov 5, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> Post a screenshot of ThrottleStop so I can see your settings. After setting your voltage and multiplier did you press the Turn On button?







I tried running UNLCK then dropping the Voltage from 14.5 -> 14 then pressing "Turn on". I should see the VID change in the top left and also on CPU-Z I presume.


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## unclewebb (Nov 5, 2020)

@Goldbricker - You have SpeedStep disabled. The multiplier and VID voltage requests only get sent to the CPU when SpeedStep is enabled. On older CPUs, it is a good idea to enable SpeedStep in the BIOS. Some Dell computers can get locked to the 6 multiplier when SpeedStep is disabled in the BIOS.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 5, 2020)

I do recall having to reboot to get my OC recognized by the benchmarks. I just used sleep mode and lived with it. Unclewebb may have a more technically correct solution. I also ran Prime 95x3 "workers" which produced about an 80-85% CPU load that I thought was realistic.
Yours has a full 266FSB, mine only did 265, and got pushed down the charts by other E520s with the same settings due to that.
This was probably one of the hardest Dells to OC. No pinmods to 333fsb, Set FSB did nothing at the time, and there was no resource to resolve the issues  I found along the way. It also turned out to be one of the most rewarding. 3.73Ghz was good for 2nd place at CPUz in 2015, But I raised that to 4GHz just because that was the next TS setting. It held up for a couple years. But others have gone 3.73 on these since then. Not bad for something that originally had Pentium4 and PentiumD CPUs.
It also help to have a high performance user profile set in Windows.


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 5, 2020)

unclewebb said:


> Some Dell computers can get locked to the 6 multiplier when SpeedStep is disabled in the BIOS.


That generally only applies to laptops though.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 6, 2020)

There are 2 Dell part# for the Delta AFC1512DG fan. NC466 which usually comes in a plastic housing that is useful for installation in a  T3500, and DG168 which usually comes with a chrome grille which is nice for the T3400 and other BTX computers. It takes some work to get it into the mid tower BTXs, but drops right into the Micro BTX Optiplexes and E520 computers.


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## OEMOC (Dec 8, 2020)

I just wanted to thank you all for the help you gave me months ago when I was looking into the t3500, and it's overclocking abilities. Between nabbing the t3500 for almost free, and finding a w3680 being thrown out for free I now have a budget gaming rig to let a great friend of mine borrow.

Specs:
w3680 @3.7x ghz w/ 150w tdp set through throttlestop
3x 4gb @1333mhz
r9 380x (using a 6 to 8pin adapter)
Stock dell 5xxW PSU 

I have a 92mm fan on the CPU heatsink which keeps the CPU in the low 60s under stress testing. Between having no heatsink on the VRM, no additional NB cooling, using a 6 to 8 pin power adapter, and running the stock 5xxw Dell PSU I'm not looking to push the CPU OC any more than 3.7x ghz.

This ought to be a night and day upgrade for the guy as he's coming from an ivy bridge gaming laptop that requires CS:GO, Witcher 3, and Read Dead Redemption 2 to be run at sub 1080p at lowest settings:
i7-3xxxQM (4c8T)
8gb 1600mhz ddr3
860m 2gb (equivalent-ish to 750ti)


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 8, 2020)

OEMOC said:


> r9 380x (using a 6 to 8pin adapter)
> Stock dell 5xxW PSU


That'll be ok. Fairly rock solid actually.



OEMOC said:


> This ought to be a night and day upgrade for the guy as he's coming from an ivy bridge gaming laptop that requires CS:GO, Witcher 3, and Read Dead Redemption 2 to be run at sub 1080p at lowest settings:
> i7-3xxxQM (4c8T)
> 8gb 1600mhz ddr3
> 860m 2gb (equivalent-ish to 750ti)


Yup, that'll be one hell of an upgrade!


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## Retrorockit (Dec 8, 2020)

Nice to know the 190W GPU is running on the Dell PSU.
When you can use the Dell PSU it let's you put the money into a GPU or RAM upgrade. Their overload protection is first rate, so no reason to "upgrade" that part.


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## OEMOC (Dec 8, 2020)

I had thoughts of running a 6 to 8 pin adapter AND a molex to 8 pin so I could throw a 290x (275w TDP) in there, but after doing some plugging that into a PSU calculator I decided it wasn't worth the risk.

If he ends up putting in parts that can be transfered into his own rig later (2.5in SSD, PSU, GPU) I'll definitely be keeping the stock dell PSU as those things are rock solid.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 9, 2020)

That Dell PSU has 3x 216W rails (12v X18a=216W). So potentially about 650W@ 12V. available.
The 12v. wiring will be white/yellow/ blue color codes for each rail. If you get the entire blue rail powering the GPU, and 75W from another rail through the MB header there should be enough power. Moving the HDD/SSD into the floppy bays usually helps with this.
The UL rated PSU is very unlikely to catch fire, or damage components if it's overloaded. It should simply shut down safely.
But looking at the GPU hierarchy chart for legacy GPUs the 380X and 290X are not much different in performance. The 290X is  a badge engineered  HD series card, and the 380X is newer tech.
 It might be interesting to see if the PSU can handle it, and then look for a newer card of similar power later on.
 2 things I don't hesitate to add to old computers are PSU, and GPU upgrades because they can move forward to newer system when the time comes.
On Dells you have to look at the 5V. rail on the original PSU and make sure there is enough power there on the new PSU. EVGA is pretty good about this. But budget can be a very real consideration so what you've already done is quite respectable.


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## OEMOC (Dec 9, 2020)

So my take away is to plug in the Vega 64 I have laying around into the T3500, remove the Vega's power limits and let it suck down all the watts? 

Just kidding. I also went with the 380x because it doesn't give off as much heat as the 290x. He doesn't keep his room as cold as mine and I wanted to be sure everything would be ok when the days warm up.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 9, 2020)

The Vega 64 at it's 3 lower power settings 206W, 220W, and 273W falls between the GTX 1070, and 1080 in performance.








						AMD Radeon RX Vega 64 8 GB Review
					

Our AMD Radeon RX Vega 64 review confirms that the company achieved major performance improvements over their last-generation Polaris and Fiji cards: Vega is faster than the GTX 1080. We tested six different performance configurations of the Vega 64, with surprising results.




					www.techpowerup.com
				



It seems like exactly the right card for that system.
You might not want to give it away, but it would provide some interesting benchmarks.
If I were running an 8GB GPU I would bump up the system RAM to 18GB or so.


			Dell Precision WorkStation T3500   Performance Results - UserBenchmark


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## frankr2994 (Jan 27, 2021)

Hey all. looking for help. system is a dell precision T5810 with a intel 1650v3 xeon 32gb ddr4 ecc ram. Got it overclocked to 4.5Ghz without much issue. Trying to go to 4.6 triggers some throttles. Sadly I just don't know what they mean to know what I can adjust. Here is my screen shots for trying to go to 4.6. I'm also pretty sure that I can't use 4.6 right now. the stock heatsink does ok at 4.5 but i'll need better for 4.6. but i'll need the knowlege none the less


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## totalfreq (Jan 28, 2021)

Retrorockit said:


> The Vega 64 at it's 3 lower power settings 206W, 220W, and 273W falls between the GTX 1070, and 1080 in performance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would imagine a w3680 will bottleneck a vega64. 

I was running a 1070ti on a T7500 with dual X5697 and 48gb ram and getting a 30% penalty. A gtx 1060 runs full out but the 1070ti was severely handicapped.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 28, 2021)

Ok just an update. I've tried increasing turbo limits, disabling turbo limits, using powercut and increasing pp0 power limit. no luck. however lowering my voltage 100mv made it take longer before throwing those same throttle flags. however at that lower voltage that frequency is not stable and I got BSOD. soooo ya. I did increase the voltage 100mv as well and it instantly and more severely throttles the cpu.


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## SamirD (Jan 28, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> Ok just an update. I've tried increasing turbo limits, disabling turbo limits, using powercut and increasing pp0 power limit. no luck. however lowering my voltage 100mv made it take longer before throwing those same throttle flags. however at that lower voltage that frequency is not stable and I got BSOD. soooo ya. I did increase the voltage 100mv as well and it instantly and more severely throttles the cpu.


I'd think that keeping it cooler would help with your goal, so if the cpu and case fans aren't already at 100%, I'd manually set them to 100% and see if that helps.  Aside from that, you may need to do a cooler upgrade.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 28, 2021)

Ok I'll turn the jet engine up to 100 lol. And no I haven't set it that high. I'm assuming the fan is probably 75% when trying for 4.6 before it throttles.  I would still like to know what power budge, edp current, and max turbo limits are. I really can't assume much because I think I tried modifying enough settings that I should have seen one of those flags go away.


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## totalfreq (Jan 28, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> Ok I'll turn the jet engine up to 100 lol. And no I haven't set it that high. I'm assuming the fan is probably 75% when trying for 4.6 before it throttles.  I would still like to know what power budge, edp current, and max turbo limits are. I really can't assume much because I think I tried modifying enough settings that I should have seen one of those flags go away.


TCase is 66.7C on that chip, looks like you are hitting a max core temp of 77C. Depending on your cooling solutions, thermal paste etc. You can be anywhere from 10-20c different in your core vs TCase max temps but you're already showing at 10C difference which means you are likely already close to that limit. I'd agree heat is likely causing the instability and either improving the transfer material (repaste or change the cooling system) or turn up the cooling as high as you can and try and get that core temp down if you want to clock higher.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 28, 2021)

The last one I overclocked which was the same system specs t5810 with a 1650v3 I put that chip in there and used artic silver. Temps ran hotter on that chip and I was only able to get 4.3 out of it. The heat pipes on the bottom of the Dell cooler have space beside them. It's not totally flush and it requires a ton of paste to make a good connection. The paste that Dell uses seems to be much thicker in viscosity and I thought it seemed to work better on their poorly designed heatsink. So if it really is just temps causing it I should be able to max the fans out to test. If it works I'll be buying another better cooler.


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## totalfreq (Jan 28, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> The last one I overclocked which was the same system specs t5810 with a 1650v3 I put that chip in there and used artic silver. Temps ran hotter on that chip and I was only able to get 4.3 out of it. The heat pipes on the bottom of the Dell cooler have space beside them. It's not totally flush and it requires a ton of paste to make a good connection. The paste that Dell uses seems to be much thicker in viscosity and I thought it seemed to work better on their poorly designed heatsink. So if it really is just temps causing it I should be able to max the fans out to test. If it works I'll be buying another better cooler.


I believe your chip maxes out at 1.3v so I wouldnt go doing a liquid nitrogen or fish tank cooler setup but you may have room to go with a little more airflow and contact. Also depends on the paste between the chip and ihs unless you've already delidded and lapped.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 28, 2021)

I will not be delidding. It's not worth it to have a better chance than not of ruining it.  I do however have a decent supply of various chips that are worthless. Maybe sometime I'll play with yanking the lids


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## unclewebb (Jan 28, 2021)

@frankr2994 - I search the forums day and night and I do not ever remember seeing POWER BUDGET light up red in Limit Reasons. I had a look at the Intel documentation for this and MAX TURBO. 


> Power Budget Management Status
> When set, frequency is reduced below the operating system request due to PBM limit.
> 
> Multi-Core Turbo Status
> When set, frequency is reduced below the operating system request due to Multi-Core Turbo limits.


That is useless information. No explanation of what causes either of these or what needs to be changed to try and fix the problem. I think you have hit the wall.



totalfreq said:


> TCase is 66.7C


This specification is only for system builders so they can design heatsinks and system fans. It can only be accurately measured by embedding a temperature sensor into the top of the CPU. This is done by cutting a groove into the heat spreader on top of the CPU with a Dremel or similar tool. Intel does not want their retail customers hacking up their CPUs so they included core temperature sensors at the hottest spots on the core. The temperature data from these core sensors is the only information used to control thermal throttling. The TCase temperature cannot be easily measured so it is not used to control anything.



frankr2994 said:


> I will not be delidding.


Good idea. The lids on these CPUs are soldered on to the CPU cores. You are more likely to destroy a good CPU than accomplish anything productive.


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## totalfreq (Jan 28, 2021)

unclewebb said:


> @frankr2994
> 
> This specification is only for system builders so they can design heatsinks and system fans. It can only be accurately measured by embedding a temperature sensor into the top of the CPU. This is done by cutting a groove into the heat spreader on top of the CPU with a Dremel or similar tool. Intel does not want their retail customers hacking up their CPUs so they included core temperature sensors at the hottest spots on the core. The temperature data from these core sensors is the only information used to control thermal throttling. The TCase temperature cannot be easily measured so it is not used to control anything.


Agreed. Impossible to calculate without a sensor at the contact point but does it not usually fall within 10-20c of core temps? I know when I've entered the +10-20c range I'm approaching the point of diminishing returns and the end of the road is in sight.

And I understand you know a lot more than me so please correct if i am wrong.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 28, 2021)

Wow unclewebb you are a much better searcher than me. Atleast you got a description. I couldn't find that anywhere. With those descriptions I'll do a little bit more digging. I'm new to most of this as usually I'm just constructing oems for friends and family and don't go modifying anything for others. This is my rig so ya lol.  And I don't think I have thanked you for your throttle stop software which is just outstanding. Completely destroys what I've found with xtu.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 28, 2021)

Thanks for the comparo to XTU., and posting your newer CPU/Dell project here. A lot of people thought this was an X58 forum.


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## unclewebb (Jan 28, 2021)

Intel included overclocking as an option for these Xeons but probably intended for this feature to only be available in the BIOS. That might be why XTU does not fully support the Xeons. Great to see ThrottleStop pumping some new life into an old CPU.

@frankr2994 - Thanks for sharing your E5-1650 v3 adventure. The Dell workstations with these CPUs are still expensive where I live. It might be a while before I find one at a decent price.

Did you try increasing or decreasing VCCIN 0.10V? I remember my laptop would get confused and would report lower power consumption when I increased the VCCIN. This trick allowed for more MHz while staying within the power budget. I took VCCIN all the way to 2.30V in the name of science. Surprisingly, that CPU still works fine.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 29, 2021)

I had to increase the vcci to 2 volts. I've been reading up on overclocking the I7-5820k which is sorta the same chip. I did increase beyond that and it didn't help. It seems to me with the limits presented that maybe it just flat out can't get enough power in. I may try heatsinks on the mosfets and vrm. I mean it was a calculated load of 155 watts and with 2v vcci that's what 77.5 Amps getting processed by that row of mosfets which seems crazy. Amps cause heat and heat causes resistance which increases the load rinse and repeat. I've currently been running settings for 4.5ghz all day at full load with folding at home. Came home and the computer was still up and running so I think I'm passing my stability test for 4.5ghz anyways.



unclewebb said:


> The Dell workstations with these CPUs are still expensive where I live. It might be a while before I find one at a decent price.



They flooded the market here about a year ago. There are gaps in this stuff though. Over a year ago nothing was cheap and it's been about 3 or 4 years that the T3610 flooded the market. The T5810s are just about done. Lease return stock seems to be getting low so the prices will go up. I've been watching the T5820s for when they hit but I'm guessing 2 years until that happens. I never paid any attention to any of the dual cpu workstations because that to anything I could do is Overkill.


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## totalfreq (Jan 29, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> I've currently been running settings for 4.5ghz all day at full load with folding at home. Came home and the computer was still up and running so I think I'm passing my stability test for 4.5ghz anyways.


Folding is a solid test but have you tried linpack or prime95. I've found it's an excellent way to quickly shake out the bugs on system. Folding and Crypto Mining, add a steady load on the processors but it's more stabile and symmetrical. If the system isnt being used for gaming or 3d/video editing then you are probably fine, but if you need to render a large bim model or play GTA V you may hit a load that BSODs.

Just a suggestion if you havnt used those for testing. Have your core temps surpassed 77c?


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## Retrorockit (Jan 29, 2021)

I've had good results heatsinking Dell MOSFETs. It does make more power available. Dell always seems to leave them off, probably for cost reasons. I found an extra .05V  on a BTX with vertically mounted MOSFETs right next to the fan, so the cooling was already pretty good there.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 29, 2021)

totalfreq said:


> Folding is a solid test but have you tried linpack or prime95. I've found it's an excellent way to quickly shake out the bugs on system. Folding and Crypto Mining, add a steady load on the processors but it's more stabile and symmetrical. If the system isnt being used for gaming or 3d/video editing then you are probably fine, but if you need to render a large bim model or play GTA V you may hit a load that BSODs.
> 
> Just a suggestion if you havnt used those for testing. Have your core temps surpassed 77c?


Prime 95 seems evil. I read that there were issues with my system and using it but it takes like 3 seconds for every limiter to go red and the computer shuts off. Now that was before folding which I actually did have to raise my voltage to get folding stable so I could try prime again. And max temp folding all day was 82c


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## totalfreq (Jan 29, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> Prime 95 seems evil. I read that there were issues with my system and using it but it takes like 3 seconds for every limiter to go red and the computer shuts off.


A xeon is built for 100% load for 1095 days straight so I highly doubt the person who used prime 95 had a solid system to begin with or was overclocking. Now when overclocking, if you cant offset AVX, use prime 95 version 26.6 to avoid the AVX voltage spike. 

But if you are afraid of Prime95 have you tried linpack? US National Laboratories and large manufacturers like IBM use linpack as the defacto scoring system for supercomputers. If they were worried linpack would break their systems they definately wouldnt be using it on multimillion/billion dollar systems. Some of these systems run 60kW per rack node which is absolutely insane.

But I'm not encouraging you to break your computer.  If folding is getting the stability you normally need then so be it. I've just found that when I OC my systems if I dont run a heavy CPU test like prime/linpack and a heavy GPU test, I'll find my computer BSODing in the middle of a huge raid in warcraft or playing witcher, gta v, CoD or doing the final render on a high poly count BIM model. If you dont game on ultra settings with max resolutions or are not an architect/engineer, then I'm sure your tests are sufficient. I would also recommend if you have mission critical data stored on the system you use a full burn in test or you may risk corruption down the road. I've had to send systems out for deep recovery before and 500gb of data will cost around USD$1500 to recover if it gets corrupted.

But I have to say this conversion really has me interested in seeing what my E5s can do. I have a T620 with dual E5-2667v2 sitting around and now I'm itching to see if I can even squeeze a few % out of it. As rocket said, thank you for exploring outside of the typical X56 we have been playing with in this thread.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 29, 2021)

Could you run your T5810 at userbenchmark.com
There are only 4 examples of that system there but the E5-1650v3 is sampled there at about the same performance level as an OC T3500.
It's a very soft benchmark. I wouldn't be surprised if you could run it at 4.6GHz.


			UserBenchmark: Dell Precision T5810 Compatible Builds


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## frankr2994 (Jan 29, 2021)

I will try linpak.  Ultimately I'll probably game at 4.5ghz and otherwise it will probably be around 4.2 for actual work. My drives will also be a mirrored refs storage pool. Not fool proof but it's atleast it's designed to fight corruption. 

And for user benchmark I did run it. A few times actually. I was comparing my xeon with others on the list. However I was not logged in and I can no longer find my score. At 4.6 I know one of my scores was 96.4%. there were slower speeds scoring better but the 100% belongs to someone that got it to 4.7


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## totalfreq (Jan 29, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> but the 100% belongs to someone that got it to 4.7


They may be using a liquid cooling solution, fish tank cooler or some other form...also I had friends way overclock a system to get the highest user benchmark/CPU-Z score while holding a can of dust off upside down and spraying the heatsink. They got the top scores but it was unsustainable.

 For instance I can pass a cpu-z at 5.386ghz on an off the shelf AIO, but at those temps I'm risking catastrophic failure so I dont actually run there.  So I wouldnt compare your 4.6 against the 4.7 and feel unworthy...ultimate benching and stabile overclocking are completely different things. It's possible they hit 4.7 stabile by just hitting the silicon lottery too.









						Intel Core i7 8086K @ 5386.71 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[icwqxj] Validated Dump by TotalFreq (2018-11-13 03:53:14) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS X CODE - RAM: 16384 MB




					valid.x86.fr


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## Retrorockit (Jan 29, 2021)

Here's a better link for that system at Userbenchmark. Apparently the word"Tower"5810 is required to find them.


			UserBenchmark: Dell Precision Tower 5810 Compatible Builds
		



frankr2994 said:


> And for user benchmark I did run it. A few times actually. I was comparing my xeon with others on the list. However I was not logged in and I can no longer find my score. At 4.6 I know one of my scores was 96.4%. there were slower speeds scoring better but the 100% belongs to someone that got it to 4.7


So this system has mid 90% CPU capability with a software overclock. certainly a nice bump up from the T3500.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 30, 2021)

ok not out of the woods yet. got linpak up and running. turns out prime 95 wasn't evil..... so I can run the long bench on TS 12 thread no problem. I can run F@H for 16 hours full tilt no problem. 3 seconds running prime 95 or linpak does those same 3 throttles in red. The only clock speed that it doesn't do that on is 3.8GHz which is the stock turbo speed. What I have noticed because its easier to catch at the lower speeds is the PKG Power. when only running 3.9GHZ power is like 80 watts and temp is around 65 running 100% load. all of a sudden PKG Power goes to about 158 watts my VID drops atleast .500 volts and all the throttles light up. I'm really clueless here because apparently from a stability standpoint I have only accomplish all core turbo which the computer typically doesn't do.


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## unclewebb (Jan 30, 2021)

If you do not plan to run Prime95 then using 12 threads of it for testing is overkill. It is not unusual for it to put a load 30% or 40% greater on your computer compared to any other load you are likely to run. When throttling starts, the MHz and VID voltage will both drop to try to reduce power consumption. Try running a 6 thread test instead of 12 threads. Even 6 threads of Prime95 is a bigger load than most apps are going to put on your CPU.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 30, 2021)

4 threads on linpak still does it. at 2 threads its not an issue.


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## totalfreq (Jan 30, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> 4 threads on linpak still does it. at 2 threads its not an issue.


Are you OCing bclk or just multiplier? If so are you more than 103mhz? I find most systems get funny if I go more than 2% up, some can get to 103mhz but past that is always unstable.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 30, 2021)

just the multiplier. I have no way of changing bclk.

I'm really starting to think this is a vrm issue. Didn't find any monitoring for them and don't have a laser temp gun only metallic thermocouple that I'm not going to move around my motherboard lol. The vrm is marked for a heatsink but doesn't have one I'm thinking I could go with little mosfet heatsinks or maybe an alienware one will work. But here's a few pictures. I yanked the cpu cooler and you can see that awesome contact patch....I'm going to replace that too.






And the vrm heatsink that I think may work https://www.newegg.com/p/2S7-05E8-012G6


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## Retrorockit (Jan 30, 2021)

That's a very nice heatsink, but looking at the airflow in that system I think it will be sitting sideways in the air stream. Arctic Cooling offers a bag of assorted small heatsinks in their accessory section.





						Accelero Xtreme III - Heatsink Set
					

VRM and VRAM Heatsinks for Accelero Xtreme III and Twin Turbo II




					www.arctic.de
				



You could get them pointed into the wind.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 30, 2021)

Good point. Being so small I didn't even notice the direction of the cooling fins. As far as an oem heatsink I can't find them on any of the motherboards until I hit a 7920. That has a bunch of passive coolers and a big fan module similar to hp workstations. I'm willing to bet the vrm on all the other motherboards was provisioned to have a heatsink if liquid cooling was ever going to be an option which I believe you could order a 7810 with liquid cooling. I still may buy the alienware heatsink. If it's the right size I'll shave all the fins off of it and just use it like a heat spreader for universal heatsinks.  I also want to use a cpu cooler off a t7810 which is larger and looks like it has a raised section to go over the vrm. It would be nice to actually tie those 2 together right there.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 31, 2021)

Dell Typically doesn't put heatsinks on their VRM MOSFETs. Probably costs less, but if you add them it gains some head room for overclocking.
Most of the dual CPU systems, and some of the singles use a narrow ILM heatsink mounting. Most mainstream computers use the standard square Intel heatsink layout. Thermalright has some narrow ILM kits.
You might grab a Nidec M35105-57 fan. It's 92x38mm 130cfm and runs off of just 12v. No PWM. It's exhaust only due to thermistor control.
Hanging one off the back of the stock heatsink usually improves things quite a bit.They can be found for about $5.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 31, 2021)

Well because I was close on the thermals I wanted I'm going to try a t7810 2nd cpu heatsink. It's a decent amount larger and shouldn't require an adapters or fan connecters. They are also pretty cheap on ebay.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 4, 2021)

Ok I bought 2 things...or wasted money on 2 things. Got an alienware vrm heatsink..... doesn't fit. Got a dell t7810 cpu heatsink. Never thought it would be a square ilm especially being a dual cpu and my single socket is a narrow ilm. The heatsink is awesome though. It's big,has more heat pipes and even has a shroud to direct air onto the vrm. Does anyone know of brackets to put on a narrow ilm to fit a standard 1150 cooler? I'd lose 2 dimm slots which....bothers me a little bit not enough lol.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 5, 2021)

If it has removable brackets, look at the fan and see what brand it is. If it's AVC (Asian Vital Components) there may be other AVC ILM coolers that can help.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 5, 2021)

No removable brackets. Big thick chuck of aluminum with the hold down screws through but cut in a way that I can't relocate the screws in the cooler. I'll take pictures later. The cooler was only 35 bucks. I'll hack it up to make it work if it can be made to work. I honestly like the design of this better than the small market of aftermarket coolers that should fit this system.

Stock 5810 cooler on left in all photos. Comparing to the 7810 cooler.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 5, 2021)

I've found that Thermalright hardware kits have the same threads as Dell workstation MB, and they have narrow ILM brackets available.
Suggestion #1- Maybe an adapter could be made to bolt to the MB with countersunk screws to make it a wide ILM pattern. A couple strips of
1/2"x 3 1/2" steel or aluminum strap should do it. Does that heatsink fit between the memory sockets at all?
#2- Try the $5 fan I suggested added to the 5810 heat sink until you find something better.
Dell cooling mods are always a challenge. They make enough of each system that they treat them all as unique designs. Not at all like the world of ATX computers where everything fits everything else. I have some Dell MB that don't seem to follow any standards at all for cooler bolt pattern.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 5, 2021)

Best I can come up with is this.
Supermicro 4U Active CPU Heat Sink Socket LGA2011 Square and Narrow ILMs (SNK-P0050AP4)

It should clear the dimm slots and the ilm bracket doesn't look like a joke. I've seen a few brackets that I know can't be putting enough pressure down.





And looking at modding mine.... about the only thing I could do would be to mill it out the same way as say this super micro cooler and bolt a narrow ilm bracket to it. Would not be able to access any of the screws through once done so it's a no go. I'll toss it back on ebay for less than I paid to get rid of it. Once I have a cooler that works I'll be able to see how tall my heatsink has to be for the vrm to get it in good airflow.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 6, 2021)

Supermicro participates in the same server, workstation marketplace that Dell does.

As far as adapting a cooler to a MB, I'm a build as you go kind of guy. But I was  thinking of adapters matching the MB to  the cooler, not modding the cooler to match the MB. That way the hidden screws would already be in place before the cooler is installed.

But the Supermicro solution looks even better to me. The fan extends below the fins on the heatsink, so VRM airflow should not be a problem.
That's one of the good things about the old BTX format. VRM was specified as being right next to the fan, and got cooled before the CPU.

FWIW Supermicro computers might be a good candidate for overclocking. They follow ATX more closely than Dell, and maybe the BIOS isn't as locked down, either as is, or for BIOS modders.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 7, 2021)

Retrorockit said:


> FWIW Supermicro computers might be a good candidate for overclocking. They follow ATX more closely than Dell, and maybe the BIOS isn't as locked down, either as is, or for BIOS modders.



Looked a little bit and couldn't find a good deal. If I could find a single xeon v3 server/workstation from them under 400 bucks I'd sell off the Dell. I've been buying Dell business grade stuff for a few years now for everyone I know. It's cheap it's good and the driver support is crazy good. My personal laptop is a e6430s and it has full driver support for xp through win 10 lol. I used to just switch out the hard drive in it for whatever os I needed. My 5810 was 370 shipped with that cpu,32gb ram 685 watt psu and a win 10 license. I couldn't come close to building anything for that...


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## Retrorockit (Feb 7, 2021)

Most of us here are Dell modders. So no reason to jump ship just yet. But if a deal is found on one it would be interesting. IDK about the others here but I'm pretty lame at BIOS overclocking from being immersed in Dells for so long. But there are plenty of experts available.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 11, 2021)

I looked up Supermicro overclocking and found this. Dual CPU LGA2011 overclocking.





						Supermicro X9DAX range, overclocking from Supermicro
					

Just spotted these new Dual LGA2011 CPU range of motherboards supporting overclocking, unheard of from Supermicro till now. What's in the range:  X9DAX-iF Key Features  1. Dual socket R (LGA 2011) supports     IntelÂ® XeonÂ® processor E5-2600 2. Supports Overclocking 3. IntelÂ® C602...




					forums.servethehome.com


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## frankr2994 (Feb 12, 2021)

Well I'll keep a look out in the future. Chances are this Dell is going to over shoot what I actually need it to do whenever I actually get it done. I got that super micro heatsink , Dell 5 pin to 4 pin fan adapter and I stole a vrm heatsink out of an old ibm server I had that I can cut down and drill and I have spring pins from an old quadro card to attach it to the motherboard. I also got some thermal pad for it. Was all supposed to be here today but I think the recent weather here in the northeast screwed that up. Going away for the weekend so hopefully Monday or Tuesday I can report back with some good clock speeds. Another side note I made another thread on here about the caps for the vrm thinking I had a solder issue. I borrowed my friends usb microscope and did not find any bad solder joints. If my power issue persist after this I'll have to start monitoring psu voltage to possibly replace the psu or I'll do all the caps for the 12v rail on the motherboard


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## Retrorockit (Feb 12, 2021)

I would take a look at the power rating on the Dell 5 pin fan vs the Supermicro. Dell tends to use powerful fans, and tone them down with a lazy PWM curve.
The Dell fan with the Supermicro cooler might be the way to go.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 13, 2021)

Ok got my stuff....not enough though lol. I was hoping I would be able to drill the narrow ilm bracket for the Dell hold down screws but it doesn't look like I'll be able to. Not enough material. So I have to buy another ilm bracket from digikey that has the threaded post in it opposed to using the threaded post attached to the case underneath the motherboard. Second thanks for the fan tip and this is what I've come up with. Factory 80mm fan draws .36amps new 92mm fan draws .35amps lol. Obviously I'm not going to put an 80mm fan on a 92mm heatsink but my case fans are 92mm and they draw 1.5amps...big step up. They are a 4 wire 4 pin pwm fan vs the 4 wire 5 pin factory cpu fan. Same pins and same pinout so I'll swap that over to the 5 pin connector and it will plug right in. Another 9 bucks buys me another case fan and I may buy 2 and utilize the hdd fan port on the motherboard and add a rear exhaust fan. Also bonus the new cooler clears the dimms. I'd have to pull it to add memory but it's just a hair taller than the sticks so it all fits


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## Retrorockit (Feb 14, 2021)

When modding Dells it's normal to end up with a pile of spare parts that didn't quite work out one way or another.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 14, 2021)

Retrorockit said:


> When modding Dells it's normal to end up with a pile of spare parts that didn't quite work out one way or another.


This is so true!


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## frankr2994 (Feb 16, 2021)

Ok half way up and running now. Heatsink drilled for Dell hold down screws. Mounted a case fan on the cooler and modified an ibm vrm heatsink to go onto my vrm. Have another case fan on order. So far running diag test bios is happy with the case fan as a cpu fan but I stuck the cpu fan in as a case fan and it doesn't like that lol. Vrm heatsink gets just warm. Chokes beside the mosfets actually get hot so I'm probably going to get some of those little copper stick on sinks for those. Here is some pictures. One thing I'd like an opinion on is keeping the dimm fan shrouding. I'd have to cut it up to get it to fit but without them I still have air passing through the system I don't know if they are needed.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 16, 2021)

I'll give you my thoughts on this. The fan/cooler setup looks good.
But IDK for sure what will happen when you power up a 1.5A fan on a MB header that had a .35A. before?
Since you're buying another fan anyway. The one I listed before is 92x38mm and 1.8A. You will need to reverse the cooler to a pull through setup. Then the fan can run off of any 12V. line since it's non PWM. It regulates off of the air temperature flowing through it. For blow through you could also just wire the thermistor to the back of the cooler  if that pleases you. It was a CPU fan back in the Pentium4 PentiumD days. It can cool a high Watt CPU.
To avoid a fan fail message any small PWM chipset fan/blower can be stuck on the MB header. Once a fan error is set you may need to manually remove it in the BIOS. They don't usually go away when you resolve the problem. The thermistor fan curve is more aggressive than the Dell PWM curve.

As far as RAM cooling goes. Dell has used organized airflow in their systems since BTX days. ATX aftermarket overclocking with more chaotic layouts has gone to heatsinks on the RAM Modules. Forced RAM cooling started with the FBDIMM DDR2 that had actual controller chips on each module. I suppose with the faster DDR4 speeds it may be needed again. TS overclocking doesn't change the RAM speed. Probably nothing really needs to be done there.

You asked about the shrouding on the cooler. I would leave it. The cheaper Dynatron cooler just fold the fins over to close in the sides of the cooler to form a duct. But the closed sides introduce a boundary layer of non moving air in the corners. the fact that there is a shroud, and it's cut away to relieve the boundary layer tells me some thought went into it. The Dell cooler probably had a full duct, but some gap between the cooler and the shroud. That's actually the technically correct solution. But the  bean counters won't allow any more cooling than is actually required. Supermicros may cost more for a reason. Less of a mass market approach to things.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 16, 2021)

Ok. I actually wasn't asking about the shrouding for the cooler itself just that the dimm shrouding hits it. I'm pretty sure I'm leaving the dimm shrouding out. As far as the fan I ran dells epsa for a while last night. It has no problem with that big fan on the cpu now I plugged in the old stock cpu fan to the system fan header and it didn't like that. That fan was spinning faster than the other 92mm fans. Nice thing is those 92mm fans have zero problem ripping up to it insane rpm so it thinks everything is ok on the cpu cooler. I booted up and lit up TS. Runs cooler but still has a crap fan curve but I can't make it hit 80c anymore. I can run linpak up to about 4.4ghz without fault. If I try 4.5 I get the same current limits. Ts bench lets me run 4.5 but hits current limits at 4.6. My vrm heatsink can get hot under load and my chokes get too hot to touch. I may add heatsinks to those. I'd really like to find a way to increase the iccmax which is greyed out for me in TS. Not positive that's what is going on but I'd sure like to try.


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## unclewebb (Feb 16, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> increase the iccmax which is greyed out for me in TS


Unfortunately the IccMax setting only applies to the newer CPUs. There is a Current Limit in the ThrottleStop TPL window for the 2nd to 4th Gen Core i based CPUs.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 16, 2021)

My current limit is locked at 208. Could this be the reason for my problem?


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## unclewebb (Feb 16, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> Could this be the reason for my problem?


EDP throttling is caused by the current limit being set too low so yes, this could cause throttling.

No way around this unless you can find a modified BIOS with this setting unlocked.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 17, 2021)

I found a discussion on another forum that a member was able to change the scale for cpu power to make it think it was using half the wattage. That person was asked multiple times in that thread how to do said trick and the response was that it was dangerous to do.....not sure if it was even real or not.  I have been looking into ways to mod the bios but it quickly gets over my head. I may try getting another t5810 motherboard and setting it up as a test bench and maybe try some stuff on that and not panic if I brick it lol. But for right now I am fighting with the pc not wanting to go to sleep which I need for TS to work. I'm probably just going to settle for a stable 4.2 all core clock and just be happy it's not 3.5.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 17, 2021)

HWInfo 64 can let you tweak the fan curve some ( raise idle speed). But basically you're at the mercy of the Dell PWM curve no matter what PWM fan you have.
The new fan may only be drawing a few Watts more power than the old fan if it's still under PWM control.
A sacrificial MB is a good idea. Then you can disconnect the blue PWM lead from the 1.5A. fan and see if the MB header can actually handle it at full power. The Dell 5 pin header on the old BTX could all handle a 1.8A fan. But IDK if that's still true on the later computers.
 I have taken a hot air gun and dimpled the blue plastic RAM shroud on other Dells to clear bigger coolers. IDK about the black stuff.
 But aftermarket RAM heatsinks would add some bling, and gain some street cred with the ATX gang.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 17, 2021)

I've already had the fans at 100 percent through the bios. Again everything seemed fine. Way way too loud at 100 percent. I played with the fan control in hwinfo. I think I could do something with that but it's vague on setting up. From the software I don't actually know what fan it's spinning up. I'll actually have to feel around in the case to see what's pushing more air. You can actually build a full curve based on temp but again it's going to take some playing. Right now I'm investigating getting another bios chip and a flash tool. I'd love to see if I can make a custom bios and actually have full control on everything. That's totally out of my realm of experience but this pc is just a play thing for me. At some point it has to turn into more but until I can buy a gpu at msrp it's just a play thing .


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## Retrorockit (Feb 18, 2021)

A few of the guys at BIOSmods.com know how to mod the Dell BIOS at some level. But mostly added CPU support from what I've seen.





						Bios Mods -The Best BIOS Update and Modification Source
					






					www.bios-mods.com
				



IDK if anyone has added controls that aren't already there. TS/HWInfo comes about as close as anything I've seen, by reaching back from the OS.
I like the Dell 1.8A. fans but I run the big 150x50mm ones that are also quiet. But at 100% fan speed even though it's loud you can test to see what the added cooling does for your overclock. Then you will know if a bigger ( quieter) cooler/fan setup has anything to offer.
But most people here get a Dell workstation, add some simple cooling mods, and enjoy an easy TS overclock. Bang for the buck is usually pretty good.
 You've definitely raised the bar here! Thanks.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 18, 2021)

Well I downloaded amibcp last night. Bios is obviously locked out so I can't pull a dump file for it. I'm going to order a flash programmer and hook it up to the bios chip and play. Programmers are really cheap and maybe just maybe I can totally unlock this motherboard and do whatever the hell I want with it. If I can pull a file and figure out how to configure it at that point I'll buy another motherboard as a test bench because ultimately I want my current system to stay operational and I don't know what I'm doing lol. Different subject. I found information that there was a t5810XL which I guess is a larger chassis. I can't find any but if anyone knows where I could buy a bare case that would be awesome. Actually have room for hard drives.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 18, 2021)

Dell DCCU is a useful utility. It's used to update BIOS files remotely. The modders use it to install modded BIOS files.
The datasheet for your PLL chip should give you some insight into how the BIOS is locking down the FSB. TME is the method I've come across.
If you get it unlocked the frequency is usually just the desired setting converted to Hex. There was an old laptop hardmod to pull down the TME input signal, But they usually add a 33mhz clock output on that pin to defeat it.
RWEverything is another program that gets you into hidden registers and settings for many of the IC chips on the MB.
I taught my self how to read the PLL settings, but never advanced to changing any of them.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 19, 2021)

Did a bunch of reading and it does look like there are ways around and back doors but it seems that if you have a 10 dollar programmer it just skips all the BS. It's on order and something like that I should be able to use at work too. Typically send chips out to have them flashed...maybe I'll learn how to change the tune in early fuel injected cars instead of paying for it.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 19, 2021)

I'm a retired truck mechanic, so you're much more advanced than I am at this. My thinking is the back doors will point you at what needs to be done in the BIOS when you get there. If there aren't any menus there, each setting could require a BIOS mod. Somewhere at the BIOSMods site they gave instructions on how to make the checksum add up.
Early EFI ? You just hammered the copper washer under fuel pressure regulator thinner when you hung a turbo on them.
Actually that was the early Bosch injectors which were mostly mechanical with a few sensors added for emission control.
 Batch fire,TBI, Lambda sensors. Aaaaaaaaaaarghh.
 I went over to diesel trucks around the end of the carburetor era. Good career, move bu, ruined it as a hobby.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 19, 2021)

Yep and you can buy a resistor on ebay to make your mass air flow sensor show it's getting more air lol. Usually like to have better control on mixture and timing on track cars. We get a number of chips flashed and occasionally do stand alone units.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 20, 2021)

Ok back to TS overclocking. Waiting on a flash programmer and a atx psu bench kit to really get into this but for now.. turning hyperthreading off gives me alot of headroom. Not saying I want to leave it off but can I use this to find a stable voltage at higher clocks? Right now I can run 4.7 non hyperthreaded and I think I can get 4.8 out of it. Just trying to see if I can get an idea what I'll need.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 21, 2021)

You can text edit TS to overclock even fewer cores than that.
Since you're the first one doing this system there's not much we can tell you about what to expect.  Half the fun here is that we're not just copying what others have  done many times already.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 21, 2021)

Well I more or less thought that was a general question. I guess to rephrase would voltage requirements be the same with HT on or off? If so I could find a stable voltage at high clocks but keep my current requirements below the threshold

Oh and a little update on linpak. Threads running is not relevant to hyperthreading. Running benchmarks it will only run 6 threads regardless of HT on or off. With it on it shows 50 percent utilization however it was designed to feed info into the cpu so efficient that it's really 100 percent load. Watts and temp rise the same if it was loaded 100 percent. Ive also found out that it was not a mosfet shutting down ripping my wattage up and voltage down. The hard limit seems to be 158 watts. Running at lower clocks I can see a large portion of the stress test running at 70 watts then Jumping to 120+ watts. No throttle flags. Bumping the clock watching it hit above 140 watts throws yellow throttle flags with no actual throttle happening. Going a little higher smacks the 158 watt limit resulting in red throttle flags and a decrease in voltage. The highest it will possibly go is 158 watts no matter of voltage or clock speeds so I know this is a hard limit I will need to change. Changing turbo limits and time does nothing to change this behavior and my temps stay below 80c. Usually in the low 70s. My system is fully put back together as I got my other case fan in the mail yesterday and have it installed. Lots and lots of airflow and I have the mosfets cooled with a decent aluminum heatsink leaving just the chokes to have something installed on them.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 22, 2021)

There is a hardmod to spoof the VSENSE pin on the Voltage controller chip with a pull down trim pot. This also requires adding a digital Voltage display to a VRM choke so you will know what you're now getting. If the wattage is "calculated" VxA=W then this should spoof the watt limit also. If it directly measures Voltage inside the CPU it won't work. Of course the die shrunk newer CPUs may not be able to tolerate the 200+Watts that 45nm, and 32nm CPUs could.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 22, 2021)

Well playing with some different software yesterday I was able to unpack a bios exe from Dell downloads. Opening it up in ami configuration shows that all the menus for adjusting everything are there and just hidden from view. So if I get my programmer and a little help from the biosmods or winraid folk I should.....be able to have a fully unlocked system.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 22, 2021)

The 2 security features I'm aware of are the Checksum which I believe has been solved at BIOSMods, and digital signing. Dell offers BIOS updates for many years so I'm not sure choronologically when this started, or exactly what it does. But my Optiplex 380 didn't have it until BIOS A07. So I had BIOS A05 moddded to avoid whatever it does. DCCU has a setting to allow installing older BIOS files. IDK if this can defeat that or not. Maybe the oldest BIOS for that won't have it? Maybe the chip burning method makes all this moot?
Some of the newer BIOS files lock down the unlocked Xeons. Plus the performance hit for Spectre/Meltdown protection (but may be very important to some users).


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## frankr2994 (Feb 22, 2021)

As far as I can tell the programmer makes all the security stuff irrelevant. I know checksums and file size are still very important.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 22, 2021)

A lot of people advise to get the latest BIOS file available. But I've found that's not always the best idea lately. At least not for performance modding.
Great news that the menus are actually in there!


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## frankr2994 (Feb 24, 2021)

Well I haven't gotten a response over on the other forums about modding the bios. I've read to make the menus visible to set them from default to user and if that's really it i guess I'm good to go. It's just really everything is set to default so it's obviously coded for default to have a different meaning for each variable. Before I flash anything I'll go into the bios on the 5810 and just go down through making sure I set everything I don't see to User and hopefully that will be the fully unlocked bios. There are alot of options and it did take me a while to find tdp settings as they are not part of the overclocking menu

Oh and FYI I still plan to use TS for my overclock. I very much like being able to change everything as I test and not having anything saved for when it's not right and crashes. Still should save a ton of time vs only changing settings in the bios. So it should still all be relevant to this thread.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 24, 2021)

I started the TS thread because it was the only game in town for overclocking locked BIOS computers. But I'm open to other methods as long as it doesn't turn into another aftermarket overclocking forum. Modding office computers, workstations, and other locked down systems is hard to find information on. The little bit that exists gets lost or "talked over" in other forums. So it's welcome here. Lex has a Dell workstation thread for more conventional users, but pretty much anything goes here.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 24, 2021)

Totally get that. I was thrilled when I found this thread and would love to convince more to take a more economical route to having an awesome computer.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 24, 2021)

One thing I do ask is if you try something, and it doesn't work, post that too. With these computers it's easy to bang your head against the wall trying things that don't work. What works on one system may not work on another. Especially with Dells that don't always follow  industry standards.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 24, 2021)

Retrorockit said:


> One thing I do ask is if you try something, and it doesn't work, post that too. With these computers it's easy to bang your head against the wall trying things that don't work. What works on one system may not work on another. Especially with Dells that don't always follow  industry standards.



Hasn't most of my post been about it not working


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## Retrorockit (Feb 25, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> Hasn't most of my post been about it not working


 I just like to get that in the thread every now and then. When I was answering Dell Optiplex questions at Tomshardware I found that many things that failed on one system would work just fine on a different one. What didn't work for one guy may solve somebody else's problem.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 26, 2021)

Got the programmer. Still haven't received any input from other forums so I'm going ahead. I pulled power and ground from the usb socket,soldered pins and attached an old fan lead into my atx breakout on the 3.3v rail. The 3.3v regulator on the board dropped this down to 2.4v though.....grabbed a jumper from and old hard drive and jumped the 5v and 3.3v pin on the programmer. I now have a totally controlled 3.3v programmer capable of supplying the amperage of the backfeed on the motherboard when hooking up to the bios chip. Next step is learning how to do a bios dump.

Used a program called asprogrammer . Was able to successfully pull 3 bios dumps and all of them have the same file size and all of them open up just fine in amibcp which is an ami bios configuration tool. I read something about a boot guard that won't let the pc boot with a modded bios and it has to do with intel me. Still reading up on what I have to do with that. But bright side my voltage mod on the programmer worked great! I have to check the files with a hex editor to verify the dumps are exactly the same and if so I'll start modding one of them. Hopefully by the end of the weekend I'll have an unlocked workstation.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 26, 2021)

The subject of Supermicro servers came up. I found this news story. Kind of OT but may be of interest to some.








						Supermicro spy chips, the sequel
					

- It really, really happened, and with bad BIOS and more, insists BloombergServer maker says latest article is 'a mishmash of disparate allegations'Following up on a disputed 2018 claim in its BusinessWeek publication that tiny spy chips were found on Supermicro server motherboards in 2015...




					www.nexusnewsfeed.com


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## frankr2994 (Feb 27, 2021)

Ok flashed my modded bios. Didn't brick it but I also didn't accomplish anything......bios menu is identical to how it was before. I pulled another dump and verified my new modded bios was indeed installed. Not sure what the hell is going on.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 27, 2021)

Some of the locking happens in the PLL chip. Whether it's the BIOS that activates this, or it's burned in at the factory, or hardwired IDK. There's a user from China at BIOSMods.com named Genius239 that does some Dell BIOS modding. He modded an early Optiplex/ Xeon BIOS for me to avoid digital signing. Perhaps if you start a thread there, or PM him directly you can get one of those guys interested. I know on the PLL chip there is a locking pin that gets a locking signal (input) at startup, and then has an output for the USB bus after that to avoid spoofing the signal. Perhaps the BIOS chip has a similar scheme, or may be hardwired to activate a locking feature to do this. The datasheet for the chip itself may reveal this.
One approach could be to mod some memory modules for reduced latency using RWEverything instead of raising the bus speed. If you can get a low Voltage module to call for standard Voltage there should be some headroom there. On the one PLL I investigated there was one setting to lock the PLL, but another to select which FSB it was locked to. No one here has tackled Dell BIOS modding. It's there to be done. I wish I could be more help, but it's outside of my very limited experience. I do TS overclocking because it's usually very simple.

Did you change any settings when you flashed the BIOS, or just try to unlock the menus?


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## frankr2994 (Feb 27, 2021)

I did not change any settings. Well one I defaulted enable oc settings. That just should make menu items not gray if I actually could see them. I have threads on biosmods and winraid. The only 2 places I've found that deal with this. It seems that the main people over there that seem to help everyone have not been active over there for a couple months. I received my first reply at one of them about hex editing. Need more info and hopefully I'll get it. I started both threads about a week prior to trying anything as I was hoping to get some info and tips before my first attempt


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## Retrorockit (Feb 27, 2021)

I've tried to find books about Hex editing and got nowhere. The little I've picked up has been from datasheets, and looking at SetFSB screens.
SetFSB PLL list hasn't been updated since the late LGA775 era. I read the datasheet and look at the screen and I can see what's going on, but how to fix it in the BIOS is beyond me. Once TME is activated on the PLL chip it's not going to raise the FSB. I've seen videos on Youtube that unlock the PLL TME in Clockgen  on some very old Dells (XPS9200, Dimension E520 from 2005) but I don't understand what's being done there.
One approach I've thought of is to find the FSB setting which will be in Hex, and transpose whatever digits you find there into something better, so as to preserve the checksum value. Maybe you can get some better values locked in at boot?


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## frankr2994 (Feb 27, 2021)

You know one thing I didn't think to look through are all the IT books I bought for college. Some were given to me and most were not needed for a class. I got no answer idea how far some of them go in depth but I'm going to dig them out.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 27, 2021)

"When" a BIOS signal is sent is important too. Some like the TME locking are sent before POST is run. Others like the bus speed outputs, and maybe FSB speed  limit selected are applied after the Power Good signal. So the locking signal, and the speed selected as the limit may need to  be approached separately. If you can't remove the limit, but can raise the limit selected then it should become possible by some means to select any speed lower than the new limit.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 28, 2021)

Ok so the individual you recommended is helping me out. I have received 4 different modified bios files. At first look through the ami configuration software I can see no changes made. However alot of hex code has been changed. I tried studying it myself and I have no idea....I was told if these files don't work the it's above their skill level. So hopefully it's a go. I'm trying to pull a good dump file now to verify I'm hooked up good to do the first flash.

Ok tried all 4 modded bios files. All boot fine and after all these flashed I haven't bricked once lol. No changes though. I'm currently going through my bios file making changes that I hope will take affect I just won't be able to see them. Hopefully with said changes in place I can use all the TS features. It's rather odd reading the description of features atleast in the editor. Some give an explanation and that's not always clear. I try to Google it and I'm not coming up with anything. I would assume in a totally unlocked ami bios for well anything it would be worded the same way anyways.

Ok I extracted a module from my bios. Extracted that to a text file. It contains all the variables I should need to change. I have no idea how to compress it back into my bios but that will come. It looks like there is no way I can make any settings visible in my bios so I need to know every last limit I need to adjust to get the most out of TS.  I also plan on increasing my memory frequency because I have the settings to do it and I read the ecc memory can be overclocked to about 2600 without changing anything else.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 1, 2021)

If you can get a datasheet for your PLL, and VRM controller chip you can see what they require in the way of hex to set them up. The TME setting is usually writeable before POST, but not rewriteable after  POST, partly because they cover it up with an output to defeat hardmods. It will give a step by step  order for booting the CPU settings. The TME lock will be very early in the boot sequence.
When I looked at this I saw the possibility on my PLL of changing the TME setting from H to L to disable it ,and then modding the FSB limit higher by changing one value from L to H to maintain the checksum. But that was LGA775 which had several default FSB to choose from. But your PLL may still have those options.
ECC RAM loses some latency due to error checking. If you get the FSB to move the RAM speed usually increases also. But chasing latency can have just as much benefit as RAM speed. Non ECC low latency RAM is one thing to look at on a TS overclock.


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## unclewebb (Mar 1, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> I can use all the TS features.


What features are not working for you? Many TS features only apply to the newer CPUs. 

Changing the BCLK is probably not going to get you very far. I think you are still going to be up against the same power limits that are holding you back now.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 1, 2021)

I guess it was really my current limit or my tdp level. I could not change current above 208 and I could not set my tdp in level 2 in TS. I see options in my bios setup though. And I was not talking about a bclk speed increase. I'm obviously new to overclocking but what I read was someone with a similar setup to me set the frequency higher for their ecc memory. They stated that they got 2600mhz without modifying anything else voltage wise. I have an option in the bios to set my memory frequency. Maybe it's just BS and I'll be the first to admit I don't really know what I'm talking about here. I've put lots of memory in different machines over the years and never cared other than I made sure to buy the right kind.


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## unclewebb (Mar 1, 2021)

Some CPUs only have TDP Level 0 and Level 1 available. Not all CPUs support TDP Level 2. If ThrottleStop only allows you to access 0 and 1 then that is all your CPU supports. No BIOS mod will change that.

If you can find a way to unlock your current limit, that might help you to overclock further without triggering any throttling. Some of the other things lighting up red in Limit Reasons are unusual and are likely to limit you even if you get the current limit unlocked. I have no idea what needs to be changed to try to get around some of the other throttling that is being triggered. 

The Xeons might hard lock the max memory speed. 

Keep hacking away. You never know what you might discover. I keep checking the local classified ads for a T5810 so I can have some fun too.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 5, 2021)

So no update yet. Still going to try just haven't had the time. I cannot get someone to tell me how to modify a module/efi bios file. I can extract it out to read it in text view which is how you figure out what you need to edit but the text is not something you can edit. I don't know where to go from there lol. I know the guys over at bios mods and win raid know how to do that but I don't think I can get the point across for them to explain it to me.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 31, 2021)

Ok I've figured out a bunch of things. Found some new software to mod the bios and have an understanding on how it all works. I have a friend who is a software developer looking at some code for me. Regardless I've ordered a e5-1691v3 cpu. 14 core unlocked. Should be fun.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 1, 2021)

I'm  just trying to get an E6500K to run in my Optiplex 380! LOL


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## Retrorockit (Dec 22, 2021)

OK no updates in this thread for a while.
I just found a TS overclock at OCN. An HP Z820 workstation. 8c/16t, 48GB @4.5GHz.








						HP Z820 performance build using unlocked Xeon 1680v2...
					

Sigh... Isn't it nice to be able to use overclocking and xeon in the same sentence?   Just purchased this bad boy for $300. Yes, I have a serious addiction to the z820....  The plan with this rig is either one of these (or something else entirely)  Option 1: Dual processor, liquid cooled, with...




					www.overclock.net
				



HP water cooling. I think it's a 2CPU machine running a single CPU.


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## frankr2994 (Dec 22, 2021)

Guessing that would be an e5-1680 xeon. Very cool. I looked into the HP water blocks. Stupid narrow ilm in my Dell doesn't let me use anything cool. And yes I see this thread has been sorta dead. I have not had time to play with my PC in a bit. I've set some more machines up for friends and family but the no gpu thing has me down on doing more with my rig. F'n pandemic.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 22, 2021)

It was an e5-1680 "v2" which is one generation newer.
Thermalright makes some Narrow ILM brackets. Their hardware has the same threads as Dell coolers also.





						Narrow ILM BTK – Thermalright
					






					thermalright.com
				



My best guess for a cooler would be this one. Height may be an issue.





						Macho 90 – Thermalright
					






					thermalright.com
				



My favorite Nidec 90x38mm fan is listed elsewhere in this thread.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 22, 2021)

Retrorockit said:


> It was an e5-1680 "v2" which is one generation newer.


That's a great CPU!


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## frankr2994 (Dec 22, 2021)

I mis spoke a little. I did something badass just couldn't use a self contained oe water block like I wanted. This is a super micro 4u cooler with a Dell high pressure system fan on it. I had to drill the ilm bracket out to use the Dell screws and set the tension back up with washers. Also modded another heatsink for the vrm


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## Retrorockit (Dec 22, 2021)

That high pressure fan is a good match for the dense fin count of that cooler .I'm not sure a 120mm water cooler will cool as well as what you have already.
Heatpipes are phase change devices, and water loops are not. They usually have to be much bigger to perform better.
Thanks for the photo showing what can be done to OC newer Dell workstations. Dell cooling mods have never been off the shelf projects.
Also I notice you gained some room by populating the outer bank of memory slots. That's worth knowing also.


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## frankr2994 (Dec 22, 2021)

No they are not. Only downside is those are not direct contact heatpipes. Doesn't matter if that fan is at 30 percent or 100 it cools the same. Can't get the heat into the cooler fast enough to pull it out. Works fine though I just thought I could get it down around 60c to see if I could over clock it more. It will not hit 80c no matter what so that's a bonus


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## Retrorockit (Dec 22, 2021)

Is that an 80mm fan or 90mm? I forgot it might be smaller than I thought. Never owned a narrow ILM so I don't have a feel for them.
Did you try lapping the heatsink and CPU? I think it's worth about 3*C. headroom.
 It may be those CPUs didn't have the soldered heatspreader. If it's glued on then the cooler probably isn't the problem.
This can vary between Xeons and mainstream CPUs. I would search that CPU at OCN and see what they've found.
Delidders would know.


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## frankr2994 (Dec 22, 2021)

I think it's considered a 92mm fan?? Its the same fan that case has 3 of. No I didn't try lapping it and really didn't want to de lid. I got myself into a situation where I was out of time and actually needed to use the computer lol. Drilling out that ilm bracket was fun in itself. Hardened steel ate a couple of my cobalt drill bits. I took the fan that came with the heatsink and re pinned it to fit a Dell motherboard header and plugged it into the HDD fan header and mounted it as exhaust. If I spin all the fans up it's no different than a big blade server now lol.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 22, 2021)

Ivy Bridge heatspreaders are a known issue.








						Ivy Bridge Temperatures Could Be Linked To TIM Inside Integrated Heatspreader: Report
					

PC enthusiasts with Ivy Bridge engineering samples, and reviewers at large have come to the consensus that Ivy Bridge is a slightly warmer chip than it should be. An investigation by Overclockers.com revealed a possible contributing factor to that. Upon carefully removing the integrated...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




92mm should be big enough. The HP guy is getting a 50% OC so the potential is there.

 The aftermarket went away from high fin counts because air sticks to the fins (boundary layer) and doesn't really want to move. The wide fin spacing let the air pass through w/o noisy fans, and they put holes and tabs in there to break up the boundary layer. Supermicro is trying to cram a lot of cooling into the narrow ILM footprint and doesn't care if it sounds like a server.
But with TIM inside the CPU who knows what will work best?


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## frankr2994 (Dec 23, 2021)

Well I put the fan on there lol. The super micro fan isn't nearly as aggressive. I thought what the hell and ordered another case fan and stuck it on there. The vrm heatsink is off an old IBM server I had and modded a little bit. I ultimately hit a brick wall with an amperage limit that I couldn't bypass. I tried modding my bios a whole bunch of times with no success. If anyone ever figures out how to mod a Dell uefi bios I'd pay for it.


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## frankr2994 (Dec 23, 2021)

Well I looked into it anyways. My chip is supposedly soldered so no delidding. I had toyed with the idea of milling the bottom of the heatsink to expose the heat pipes and then modding my hold down to compensate. But at the end of the day I can't go any further. I'm on the lookout for a reasonable eatx or atx x99 motherboard to build. But damn are name brand ones expensive.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 24, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> Well I looked into it anyways. My chip is supposedly soldered so no delidding. I had toyed with the idea of milling the bottom of the heatsink to expose the heat pipes and then modding my hold down to compensate. But at the end of the day I can't go any further. I'm on the lookout for a reasonable eatx or atx x99 motherboard to build. But damn are name brand ones expensive.


Congrats on the soldered chip.

I'm not sure machining will get what you want with the heatpipes. They're usually swedged flat on one side for that. Thermalright coolers are polished, and slightly convex which seems to work just as well. Also there are usually gaps that need to be filled with thermal paste. Lapping gets the paste as thin as possible. I think the polished and machined stuff probably works just as well.
Lapping the CPU is not that hard, and the stamped covers can be far from flat in some cases. I keep an old mirror around and some 3M # 03006 fine sand paper assortment (#1000-#2500) from an auto parts store. I start with 600-800 grit, to get it flat, then work my way to #2500 grit paper. I tape the end of the sheets to the mirror so it doesn't slide around.
Personally I think that's just as important as the cooler base.
Thermalright does make a Silver Arrow ITX cooler. It will turn the airflow sideways, and no idea if it will actually fit but it does overclock fairly well. 103mm wide and 165mm high. Very quiet even overclocked. I think this would equal the HP H2O setup, or better. My guess is the heatpipes will hit at the top. One solution would be to space the whole cover up. The TR Macho 120 I put in the T3500 is only 150mm high and it hit the cover. How this balances out against going aftermarket ATX all the way IDK. But the cooler wouldn't be wasted if you do.









						Thermalright Silver Arrow ITX Review
					

Thermalright is shaking things up with the Silver Arrow ITX. It features a tweaked design that offers better compatibility with Mini-ITX motherboards, especially the ASUS ROG line. With solid performance, exceptional style, and near-silent operation, the Silver Arrow ITX manages to hold its own...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




TDP 240W!


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## frankr2994 (Dec 24, 2021)

I already had to mod the cover decently for my current cooler to work. Never finished it but I no long have the door latch on it....at all. I have to reach in to open it up lol. And ya I didn't consider how not flat the stamped heat spreader may be. That would actually be worth my time. I have some granite at work that I tape sandpaper on to lap stuff. I do disagree with milling the heatsink though. There is a decent amount of aluminum between the cpu and the heatpipes. The closer I could get them the better. I keep saying though I need a Dell bios guru to actually push this further. I've been all over bios modding sites and have had more than one person try to help me out. Really need a Dell or AMI firmware developer to chime in.

Oh and looking I see that thermalright has a narrow ilm bracket available separately....you show me where the hell you can buy it lol. eBay doesn't even have one.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 25, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> I already had to mod the cover decently for my current cooler to work. Never finished it but I no long have the door latch on it....at all. I have to reach in to open it up lol. And ya I didn't consider how not flat the stamped heat spreader may be. That would actually be worth my time. I have some granite at work that I tape sandpaper on to lap stuff. I do disagree with milling the heatsink though. There is a decent amount of aluminum between the cpu and the heatpipes. The closer I could get them the better. I keep saying though I need a Dell bios guru to actually push this further. I've been all over bios modding sites and have had more than one person try to help me out. Really need a Dell or AMI firmware developer to chime in.
> 
> Oh and looking I see that thermalright has a narrow ilm bracket available separately....you show me where the hell you can buy it lol. eBay doesn't even have one.


Thermalright is a German Company I believe. Maybe go straight to them. But yes the Macho 120s are hard to find too. Try a part number search. Look at images and see if it's just a bolt pattern mod of the AMD bracket they all come with.
maybe Thermalright.de and Google translate will get you something.

The HP guy got 4.5Ghz at 45x100 using just Throttlestop.
"45x100 daily at 1.312v, 48GB of ECC RAM at 1600MHz. Served for a few years as compiling server, media server, file server, and web/mysql server."

With 4 channel RAM I'm not sure BCLK BIOS modding has much to offer anyway. It (the CPU) supports 1866 RAM, and then chase  lower latency parts for more speed that way. Ditching ECC (if possible) helps with that.

You're right. Removing some aluminum would remove some thermal resistance. But getting to the wide footprint of the bare copper heatpipes against the CPU that aftermarket coolers have wouldn't be possible.


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## frankr2994 (Dec 25, 2021)

Oh I can run 4.6 as long as I'm not doing a avx stress test. But the way that chip wanted to overclock I know there is more in it. I wanted to bypass current limits that hold me back. I don't even care if I trash the motherboard I'll just buy another barebones PC to rape another from lol. I'd go further in cpu cooling and vrm cooling if I could get more current pushed. I don't want to do any bclk adjusting. If I remember without reading back though all my post was edp power limit and once it hits I loose all my speed as it dials way back.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 25, 2021)

frankr2994 said:


> Oh I can run 4.6 as long as I'm not doing a avx stress test. But the way that chip wanted to overclock I know there is more in it. I wanted to bypass current limits that hold me back. I don't even care if I trash the motherboard I'll just buy another barebones PC to rape another from lol. I'd go further in cpu cooling and vrm cooling if I could get more current pushed. I don't want to do any bclk adjusting. If I remember without reading back though all my post was edp power limit and once it hits I loose all my speed as it dials way back.


I've never found much going on in Dell BIOS modding. partly because it's difficult, and partly due to lack of any real interest.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 10, 2022)

Well I had some time yesterday in my office and decided to play some more. The whole prime 95 stress test was more or less impossible because of power limits in the past. I did some playing and Ive seem to got a stable 4.0 all core turbo running prime95 blended 6 core hyper threaded. Not quite 4.0 because I brought the bclk down one notch using TS. I'll play more this week with it. If I can find a way to hit 4.2 with prime 95 I'll settle. For the hell of it I was pricing some stuff out to see what it would cost to have something "better". You know it's still pretty damn hard to beat a 4.0 6 core with 40 pcie lanes . Anything with a decent amount of pcie lanes seems to cost too much in the motherboard department. Granted I'm comparing my full system ram , storage ect. Costing me like 400 bucks lol


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## Retrorockit (Jan 10, 2022)

I came across an interesting tool while looking for something else. It's for a VRM hardmod that isn't well known except to some GPU overclockers.
The mod is kind of simple.
The VRM controller chip has a VSENSE pin. This reads the CPU Voltage and the controller maintains it at the specified value.
If you install a resistor to GRD there it will pull down the Voltage the regulator senses, and the VRM will add more power until it senses the proper value again.
The actual Voltage supplied will be higher due to the spoofed feedback signal. You can install a potentiometer to make it adjustable. In the past a V. gauge was added to know the actual Voltage produced.
Now there is an app that calculates the Voltage change with various potentiometers.
You input the existing CPU Voltage in mV, and the resistance to GRD at the VSENSE feedback pin. The app produces a chart with the resulting mV each potentiometer setting will produce at the CPU.








						vMod Calculator - Apps on Google Play
					

Easy calculation to choose you potentiometer and predict voltage output




					play.google.com


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## frankr2994 (Jan 11, 2022)

Just did something similar to that with a 36v battery charger the other day lol. Never thought of that. I would think though that its going to be hard for me to identify my vsense pin on the motherboard though. I can do it physically looking at wires but even taking voltage readings really won't tell me what pin it is. And I damn well know that dell didn't publish it lol. If I can figure it out I'll try it.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 11, 2022)

You can look for the datasheet from the VRM chip manufacturer. Pin 4 is one of the usual suspects. That's what it is on the Dimension E520 anyway. I had moved on to other things by the time I found that out. but this mod would get past Intels 1.60V CPU limit. I could probably take the QX6800 past 4GHz if I wanted to with the tricks I've learned since 2015. But the QX9650 goes right past that in the T3400 workstation anyway. You might get lucky and find a trace on the MB that's labeled VSENSE. But you're absolutely right Dell will be of no help with this at all.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 20, 2022)

While researching a CPU Voltmod I found out that Vsense is now a CPU pin.  So the VRM may be on the CPU since  LGA1366.


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 20, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> So the VRM may be on the CPU since LGA1366.


No it's not.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 20, 2022)

I'm glad to be wrong about that. That means there's hope for a VSENSE mod.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 21, 2022)

Well I haven't found anything but I also haven't pulled my motherboard out of the case to try and figure it out on my own lol. Slightly off topic I just picked up an EVGA 1070sc yesterday. I wanted a new gpu but ya can't go that route. This one cost me 300 US and they are going for over 400 now. What I thought was funny is that I never new that the 1070 and 1080 are the dells of gpus. Power limit locked down. Any overclock results in a hard throttle lol. The card is 100 times better than the Quadro k2000 I had in there but I was looking for a card so my kid and I could play steam VR. This works but it would be nice if it worked better...bonus I ran VR with my cpu overclocked to 4.2ghz. steam VR used all 12 logical cores at about 20 percent while my GPU was maxed out.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 23, 2022)

While looking into some LGA775 mods I found a patch to add SSE4 support to CPUs that don't have it. This got me wondering about AVX support for X58.
What I found is that a lot of newer games are releasing patches to run on non AVX systems. Apparently there was enough backlash form X58 owners that they bothered to do this.
VR seems to require AVX. No patch for the computer itself to add AVX fubctionality that I can find. So there seems to be some work being done in this direction.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 23, 2022)

I would suspect alot of newer games are going to start supporting older tech but not because of cpu limitations. There is alot of chatter out there about people switching over to console gaming because they can't upgrade from say a gtx960 due to the market. I'm not a kid but have kids and like to do a little light gaming myself and it took me over a year to find a "deal" on a card that was released in 2018.....can I buy a card that cost 1200 bucks...ya but I wouldn't be able to hear my game over my wife yelling at me.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 23, 2022)

I'm not a gamer at all but I need to buy fairly recent cards so my results don't get buried in the back pages at userbenchmark. My $20 Optiplex 380 needed a GTX1060 3GB to stay near the front of the chart due to 1500 other examples of that system. I found an HP OEM GTX1660Ti that would fit. But getting my hands on one proved difficult. Also a 6GB GPU in an 8GB system doesn't make a lot of sense. I have added a 2 fan GTX1660TI 6GB OC to my collection. My T3400 and XPS 420 can run 16GB DDR2 800 (which is also not cheap). One of the original Throtttlestop Overclocks in a  T3400 QX9650 @ 4.15GHZ got buried there due to a GTX760GPU. Unclewebbs T3500 overclock is hard to find there for the same reason. I think he landed on page 7 or 8 with the fastest CPU score there.
It takes a GTX1080 to make the front page on that system.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 23, 2022)

Well my user benchmark has my cpu 5th on the list using TS. My system as a whole though....I would need a 3090 to compete. I run user benchmark for shits and giggles though. I don't really care. If I build something for someone I show them the results to demonstrate how badass it is at least for what they need to do with it.  Ideally I really only want a good GPU to push multiple monitors while coding a developing. This is what I would love to do with my spare time.

And as far as building the rest of my PC. Still need 2 more nvme drives, 2 4tb hdds, 4 more 8gb ecc modules and a dual controller USB 3.2 card. Then I'll have everything my little heart desires for a few years. 64gb of ram,fast cpu,fast GPU and 4tb of fast access mirrored storage


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## Retrorockit (Jan 23, 2022)

The T3500 Xeon overclocks are finally at the front at userbenchmark. By a decent percentage too. I can't afford to buy every system and every GPU that TS could help.  I have a couple T3500s but I personally don't need the power, and I can't think of anything new for me to do to them. LGA775 on the other hand I actually have a couple of new tricks to try there. I'm sure a 4GHz Optiplex 380 will impress absolutely no one!


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## frankr2994 (Jan 25, 2022)

Hey I've been browsing the forums here instead of the usual 2 threads and came across some software called power monkey. It applies settings before booting. Now I'm not concerned with using many of the features there because TS just makes things too easy. However there is a TDP option in power monkey. Would it just be a waste of time to see if that could unlock it prior to booting since TS can't change it? If I unlock TDP I'm certain I could run a very stable 4.6ghz even in stress test.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 26, 2022)

I came across this benchmark of Various Dell computers form Purdue Universities IT dept.








						Dell Model Benchmarks
					






					engineering.purdue.edu
				



The Precision T3600/5600 is still king of the hill. So frankr2994  TS OC project is still relevant.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 26, 2022)

Never said it wasn't relevant. But all this benchmark talk maybe I need to set my clock back up and run a passmark to see if my 5810 scores higher than your old precisions lol. Still curious if this new software can bypass my TDP level to allow me to use TS to have a higher stable clock


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## Retrorockit (Jan 26, 2022)

That's the T3600 benchmarks.. This thread has mostly been about the older T3500 . But no AVX on the X58 CPUs leaves them behind for modern gamers.
But the OC T3500 at userbenchmark runs mid 80's CPU scores. A bit faster than the T3600s there.
There are only 5 samples of T5810 there . I thought you had the T3600. I don't have a feel for what the T5810 is. The T3600 looks ripe for an overclock. Just for the AVX support.
T3500 https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-WorkStation-T3500--/2522
T3600 https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T3600/1882
T5810 https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Dell-Precision-T5810/157256


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## frankr2994 (Jan 26, 2022)

Lol ya I have a t5810. Not all that old technically. A 5810 is really just a next gen t3610. When they went to a 3620 that was a different PC all together. I believe based off the t1700. So instead of the 5000 series keeping dual CPUs they made it a single socket.  Here is my user benchmark run at 4.5ghz 6 cores.https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/49845914


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## Retrorockit (Jan 27, 2022)

Your link leads to a larger T5810 sample than I was finding. Most of them about equal an OC T3500 but a few like yours get up to 90%CPU score which the T3500 won't do.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 27, 2022)

Well remember I can't keep a 4.5 O.C. . If I managed to load up more than a few cores I'd be drawing over limit. 4.2 is as high as I can go and not worry about throttling. That doesn't lower my score too much though as most of the samples of the e5-1650v3 show all cores clocked at 3.55.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 29, 2022)

I put a request in at BIOSMods.com for a QX9650 BIOS for the Dell Optiplex 380. They're the guys who did the Xeon BIOS for that system. The 120W X5470 ran just fine. The G41 chipset lists a 130W limit and support for the C2X. The Opti 380 is funny. They offered it with 32 bit OS, and 4GB RAM as the standard config. It would be funny if it turns out to be the most potent of the LGA775 Optipods.
So I'm at the mercy of the BIOS Mod Gods. Maybe offerings of burnt silicon would help?


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## frankr2994 (Jan 29, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> I put a request in at BIOSMods.com for a QX9650 BIOS for the Dell Optiplex 380. They're the guys who did the Xeon BIOS for that system. The 120W X5470 ran just fine. The G41 chipset lists a 130W limit and support for the C2X. The Opti 380 is funny. They offered it with 32 bit OS, and 4GB RAM as the standard config. It would be funny if it turns out to be the most potent of the LGA775 Optipods.
> So I'm at the mercy of the BIOS Mod Gods. Maybe offerings of burnt silicon would help?


You can try win-raid as well. Useful people on both. The main person that seemed to be able to do anything was lostnbios and they haven't sign on in a long time.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 29, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> You can try win-raid as well. Useful people on both. The main person that seemed to be able to do anything was lostnbios and they haven't sign on in a long time.


Genius239 at BIOSMods was the Dell Optiplex guy. He did the Xeon BIOS for me. For a donation he custom made mine  out of the version I asked for to avoid digital signing. Unlocking a Dell BIOS is almost mission impossible. But adding CPU support seems to be known art. But I'll look at them also. The thread starter page at BIOSMods was almost useless. I was blaming them, but maybe it's MY browser choice. I'l look at it again.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 29, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> Genius239 at BIOSMods was the Dell Optiplex guy. He did the Xeon BIOS for me. For a donation he custom made mine  out of the version I asked for to avoid digital signing. Unlocking a Dell BIOS is almost mission impossible. But adding CPU support seems to be known art. But I'll look at them also. The thread starter page at BIOSMods was almost useless. I was blaming them, but maybe it's MY browser choice. I'l look at it again.


Genius 239 gave it a few shots helping me out. My bios proves to be bullet proof. I could also tell there was a language barrier there making things slightly difficult going back and forth on ideas. Very nice person no less trying what they did for me.

Also if all your looking to do is add certain support I believe it's as simple as injecting modules. I know your on an older system but the tool of choice is usually uefitool. With a little bit of research I'm sure you could figure out how to do it yourself. May want to have a spi programmer on standby if you brick it lol.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 29, 2022)

I'm a retired truck mech. On my own with all of this. Genius 239 says his BIOS should already have the microcode I need. This is a 2nd Opti 380 MB so i'm starting fresh with this one. This is also my daily driver computer. I'll flash his 771  BIOS and see what happens. He says it has all the microcodes. I was so shocked an Optiplex would run over a 95W CPU (X5470) I didn't really think of trying to make the QX9650 run. But I'm seeing it running  on G41 in a few places. The only other 130W one was the Opti 745 which had Pentium D support, but no 333fsb or 45nm CPU suppport. The Opti 380 is Dell Legacy  BTX era BIOS so anything named uefi probably won't work.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 30, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> I'm a retired truck mech. On my own with all of this. Genius 239 says his BIOS should already have the microcode I need. This is a 2nd Opti 380 MB so i'm starting fresh with this one. This is also my daily driver computer. I'll flash his 771  BIOS and see what happens. He says it has all the microcodes. I was so shocked an Optiplex would run over a 95W CPU (X5470) I didn't really think of trying to make the QX9650 run. But I'm seeing it running  on G41 in a few places. The only other 130W one was the Opti 745 which had Pentium D support, but no 333fsb or 45nm CPU suppport. The Opti 380 is Dell Legacy  BTX era BIOS so anything named uefi probably won't work.


You and I have talked about this before. I'm a not retired mechanic lol. Apparently what we do with these dells no one else really does. Everytime I try and research more on my system I keep coming across my own post on varying sites sometimes just talking to myself. Still baffles me though. My system is current enough to be like modern good and it's dirt cheap. Wish more people would go that route.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 30, 2022)

But you are obviously more experienced with the programming side of computers than I am. I just put together another web crawler so I can work on the Opti 380. I'll be thrilled if this bottom feeder Optiplex can run a  QX9650 and TS overclock it decently.
My web crawler has an unlocked 2 core. E6500K. No SSE4 so not the greatest CPU. But it's unlocked and in a Optriplex XE Desktop (no XE towers) with 12GB DDR3 and a GTX1050Ti 4GB. The 2 slot full height 1050 is stuffed in there sidways with a Dell 90* bracket  they have for the Opti desktops. I've got a 150cfm fan for it on the way form China, and a nice 130W Pentium D cooler that I can cram in there when the fan gets. The 4 phase VRM might actually add up to something. But for now I have the stock 95W heatpipe cooler and fan in it. The 2  core cooler for these heavy duty computers was a nice all copper soldered fin heatsink, not the usual Optiplex aluminum lump. Whatever I get with the E6500K I'll try to duplicate via pin mods on an E7600 to get SSE4 support. Not the most exciting project. Everything is just a bit less than what the Opti towers can handle except the 12GB RAM.


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## Retrorockit (Jan 31, 2022)

Well the Opti XE wouldn't boot the China only E6500K. So it has a Q9505s instead. The reason for the backup is I want to try for a QX9650 in the Opti 380. Then it will be a TSOC project.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 3, 2022)

I blew up my Dell XPS420 testing QX9650s. It wouldn't be a big deal except I just bought a new ASUS GTX1660Ti  for it. Fortunately I have a big enough pile of old Dell crap I just started over and converted it to an XPS430. Everything is the same except now It's DDR3 and X48 instead of DDR2 and X38. So now 400fsb is official. This is about the only kind of Dell MB swap that works. When they add just one feature like newer RAM. So It's QX9650, 12GB DDR3 @1333, and GTX1660Ti. I couldn't heatsink the VRM because my tube of heatsink cement had dried up. So I'm at the average Throttlestop overclock for these of 4.15GHz. ASUS tried to make the card look big and tough, so I had to cut it down to size to get it in the Dell BTX. Just a a little plastic surgery. So I was at the point of no return (literally) with this one. I'm surprised I had 32GB of DDR3 laying around since I've almost never needed it before (maybe that's why I still have it?). 12GB in an Opti XE, 12GB in the XPS430, and 8GB in the Opti 380. I even have enough left over for a couple X58 projects.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 3, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> So It's QX9650, 12GB DDR3 @1333, and GTX1660Ti.


Nice!


Retrorockit said:


> I couldn't heatsink the VRM because my tube of heatsink cement had dried up.


Superglue. I use it all the time. Just a tiny amount after using sandpaper to lightly rough up the heatsink and bob's-ur-uncle. Works like a charm. 

And before anyone says it, no, SuperGlue is not a the thermal insulator everyone claims it to be. It's not a perfect thermal conductor, true, but in such a small amount and with EVERY crack & gap being filled & sealed, it works a fair treat.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 3, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> I blew up my Dell XPS420 testing QX9650s. It wouldn't be a big deal except I just bought a new ASUS GTX1660Ti  for it. Fortunately I have a big enough pile of old Dell crap I just started over and converted it to an XPS430. Everything is the same except now It's DDR3 and X48 instead of DDR2 and X38. So now 400fsb is official. This is about the only kind of Dell MB swap that works. When they add just one feature like newer RAM. So It's QX9650, 12GB DDR3 @1333, and GTX1660Ti. I couldn't heatsink the VRM because my tube of heatsink cement had dried up. So I'm at the average Throttlestop overclock for these of 4.15GHz. ASUS tried to make the card look big and tough, so I had to cut it down to size to get it in the Dell BTX. Just a a little plastic surgery. So I was at the point of no return (literally) with this one. I'm surprised I had 32GB of DDR3 laying around since I've almost never needed it before (maybe that's why I still have it?). 12GB in an Opti XE, 12GB in the XPS430, and 8GB in the Opti 380. I even have enough left over for a couple X58 projects.


 When I have more free time I can get another t5810 motherboard for 45 bucks. Probably cheaper if I hunt. I have enough stuff here to put it together without fear or actually hurting what I need to use. Maybe I can blow stuff up too. Avx workload on that 1650 v3 overclocked I'm sure is around 200 watts........


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## Retrorockit (Feb 3, 2022)

I grab spare motherboards when I can. I picked up a couple T3400 boards for $14 each. It's the same as the XPS420 with some different I/O options. I'm going to do my CPU  experiments on one of those.
I also have 3 of the Opti XEs. They came with a T3500 for $80. So they were either free or $20 each. Shopping by Dell part# instead of system description can get you better pricing sometimes. I didn't need the XPS430 MB until I did. The more parts I threw at the XPS 420 the more it beeped at me. I'm going to try for a RAID0 with a couple 120GB SSDs in it. The manual says the BIOS can do it.
When I got the MB out I found a copper heatsink that was too close to the BTX cooler mounting had come loose. I t may have shorted something out. Whether it's permanent damage or not IDK. To test it I would need another XPS420 front I/O panel and cable. Rare and expensive stuff.



lexluthermiester said:


> Nice!
> 
> Superglue. I use it all the time. Just a tiny amount after using sandpaper to lightly rough up the heatsink and bob's-ur-uncle. Works like a charm.
> 
> And before anyone says it, no, SuperGlue is not a the thermal insulator everyone claims it to be. It's not a perfect thermal conductor, true, but in such a small amount and with EVERY crack & gap being filled & sealed, it works a fair treat.


That's not the problem with Superglue. It offgasses and ruins optical drives. Puts a film on the lasers. I think Gorilla glue is different. But IDK how good it is for heatsinks. I got that from an old timer who fabricates prototypes of electronic devices.
 The problem I had was using Alphacool copper sinks that need to be opened up like a fan. I should have put a vertical part in one place like an Enzotech MOS10. The BTX cooler don't drop straight down. This one heatsink got in the way.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 3, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> It offgasses and ruins optical drives. Puts a film on the lasers.


Never had that experience. Once Superglue cures, which is fully complete in minutes, it's vapors are gone. So that's really a very, very minor concern.


Retrorockit said:


> The BTX cooler don't drop straight down. This one heatsink got in the way.


Small heatsinks shouldn't be a problem.

I didn't make my comment to criticize, just to offer advice for future.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 3, 2022)

I got that from an  old German machinist who made a video about what he does. When it gets hot things may change. On CSI shows they use Superglue vapor to reveal fingerprints.
Anyway that expert makes a point of not using it around electronics. I don't doubt that it will attach a heatsink, and it will work. But I'm going to "stick" with stuff made for the purpose. 
When "working" on 12 year old computers there's no point in being in a hurry.

Here's something I tried that worked out as "planned". I actually couldn't see the result unitl I tried it. But it applies to the locked BIOS computer most of us have here.
Here's a CPUZ of my Opti 380 with generic DDR3 1333RAM running at the 1066 speed this Dell allows. Timings are 7-7-7-20








						Intel Core 2 Quad Q9505S @ 2826.28 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[kw5tpl] Validated Dump by 20DOLLARDELL (2022-01-09 13:33:40) - MB: Dell 0HN7XN - RAM: 8192 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				




 I then installed some Crucial Ballistix Sport RAM CAS9@1600. At 1066 speed it's now 6-6-6-16








						Intel Core 2 Quad Q9505S @ 2825.98 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[74uad7] Validated Dump by 20DOLLARDELL (2022-02-03 15:44:41) - MB: Dell 0HN7XN - RAM: 8192 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				




 Since we can't change FSB and memory speed on these. Better latency is something to look for.
It would be pretty easy to go from CAS9, or even CAS11 ECC RAM to CAS7@1333 on an X58 workstation. That's what these modules would run at.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 4, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> I got that from an old German machinist who made a video about what he does. When it gets hot things may change. On CSI shows they use Superglue vapor to reveal fingerprints.
> Anyway that expert makes a point of not using it around electronics. I don't doubt that it will attach a heatsink, and it will work. But I'm going to "stick" with stuff made for the purpose.
> When "working" on 12 year old computers there's no point in being in a hurry.


That's interesting. SuperGlue emits vapors only in an uncured, liquid state. Once it solidifies, there are no more vapors. I have never had any negative experience using it on and around electronics. But no worries, was just offering an option.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 4, 2022)

On the whole thermal adhesive topic what works good. I've been looking into it recently finding all different types of tape and glue that everyone says doesn't work. I'd still like to add something onto the chokes for my vrm and I'd have to "stick" them on.


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## Susquehannock (Feb 4, 2022)

Masking tape only on the corners, spread favorite TIM, remove tape, apply small drop of glue on bare corners, apply heatsink.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 4, 2022)

Susquehannock said:


> Masking tape only on the corners, spread favorite TIM, remove tape, apply small drop of glue on bare corners, apply heatsink.


I like it. And since I don't need my optical drive....ever I'll use super glue lol. Thanks for the tip


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## Retrorockit (Feb 4, 2022)

I[ve been paying the price and making the mess using Arctic 2 part silver epoxy. But I did stick 1 Enzotech heatsink back on with superglue.  finally broke down and did it.
It an XPS420 again!
The heatsink came off because the oversized ASUS GPU had me sllding the heatsink forward and then up. I either have to trim the GPU shroud some more, or take the video card out first.
I think I need to take the bigass ASUS card out and put an MSI GTX1060 6GB in while I'm working on it so the heatsink can come off and on easily.
 The heatsinks on the 420 MB did get me up to 4.32GHZ @ 1.425V running about 70*. The 150x50 delta fan has no trouble holding that at just slightly raised speed. if I go to 1.435V and try to go higher it crashes.
Now that I think about it I've seen this Voltage problem before. Raise the Voltage, the fan speeds up, and it crashes. I need to move the Big Delta fan off of the MB header. I'll run  it on the GPU rail.
 Probably the 3 phase VRM is at it's limit. It runs the TS long benchmark OK at that speed. CPUZ scores 390 single core, and 1495 multicore in their benchmark. Pretty close to i7-2600k @ 3.40GHz.
270 and 1049 were the base scores. I did get the 2 SSDs in RAID0. My internet is just 1 cable to one computer so it hasn't been online yet.
I dropped the other lapped CPU on a tile floor so I'm going to test it on a T3400 first. I may try a couple other tricks there too. I might be able get a little more out of it The 400 fsb is there to play with. If I can get a base speed of 3.6GHz I'll try for a 2 core TS overclock. with 400 fsb. 4.4Ghz might happen. But if I end up at 4.2GHz 4 core that's good too.

I'm using a dry Thermal Grizzly graphite TIM pad. TX-4 might do better, and I have another QX9650 that's lapped. Those and a more aggressive fan profile on the Delta fan can probably improve that.
It's holding 70* because Dell waits that long to speed up the fan.


I'm using a Dell PSU. The 425W  XPS420 version. Dell PSUs aren't bad, they're just misunderstood.
To know what you actually have you need to look at the label and count the power on each rail. And remember Dell kept using the +5V. rail for a long time, so if you go aftermarket don't ignore that.
Here are a few examples.
Optiplex XE 1x18A 12V. rail 1x 3A. 24V. USB rail, rated 300W. This little desktop PSU has 216W of 12V. power. 72W on the 24V. line.                                          300W=216W 12V.
Old Optiplex MT 305W PSU. 2x18A 12V. rails. Do the math. That's 432 Watts of 12V. power. On a test bench it WILL make over 400W. No GPU cable.               305W= 400W 12V.
Dell T3400 375W PSU. 2x18A. 12V. rails. It adds a 75W GPU cable. The rating goes up because the connector is there to use it.                                                    375W=400W 12V
Dell XPS 420 #L425P 425W PSU 3x 18A 12V. rails. It adds a 2nd 75W GPU cable. But they both run off of their own 216W rail. It may have 425W of connectors,425W= 600W 12V.
They will all do what Dell says they will do. But some of them can do a whole lot more.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 4, 2022)

Not sure if it means anything since I've never had anyone explain to me on modifying the hex code for a bios but I think I have something figured out. I managed to re write in the intelRCSetup and change my default tdp to level 2. I now need to change my pp0 current to max. These are both settings that are supposedly easy to change on everything else using amibcp which is an AMI bios editing GUI but those settings don't stick with whatever Dell did. My thought is if I can make the default settings the ones that I want then it should work. If I manage this then the only failsafe will be when I burn a MOSFET out of my board.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 5, 2022)

Sometimes you can see the settings you want, and maybe change them. But there is sometimes another locking bit somewhere. It can even be listed as read only. On PLL it's called TME. I've looked at Hex but never figured out how to do anything with it myself.

On the locked BIOS memory mod front I've ordered some Ballistix Tactical modules iwth CAS 8 @1600. Uisng Neweggs Memory Finder Tool they came up as being good for an Opti 780.
So maybe I can go from previous CAS7 to CAS5 @ 1066 on the Opti 380.
Here is a calculator that converts RAM clock speed, and Latency to an actual nS speed.








						RAM Speed Calculator | XBitLabs
					

This is a calculator to determine an absolute RAM latency or RAM speed.




					www.xbitlabs.com
				



1066 @ CAS 7 = 13.1ns Previous Hynix RAM
1066 @ CAS 6 = 11.3ns Opti 380 now CBS RAM @ 1066
1600 @ CAS 9 = 11.3ns Same damned thing! Crucial Ballistix Sport RAM rated speed.
1600 @ CAS 8 = 10.0ns Ballistix Tactical RAM
1066 @ CAS 5 = 6.3ns  which may or may not actually happen. Nobody publishes this info.
But the X48 can run at 1333 so maybe CAS 6 there?
1333 @ CAS 6 = 9.0ns Faster than 1600 @ CAS 8.
Any way it's possible to put a number on this mod.

BTW 800 @ CAS 5 = 12.5ns which is what I'm trying to get in DDR2 for the XPS 420, or T3400.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 5, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> On the locked BIOS memory mod front I've ordered some Ballistix Tactical modules iwth CAS 8 @1600. Uisng Neweggs Memory Finder Tool they came up as being good for an Opti 780.
> So maybe I can go from previous CAS7 to CAS5 @ 1066 on the Opti 380.
> Here is a calculator that converts RAM clock speed, and Latency to an actual nS speed.
> 
> ...



Now that's some good info. I've never made much effort with ram before other than buying gskill. That's a brand that I've never had a failure on so I stuck to it. I've often wondered about some of the crazy high speeds out there and how they compare with an equally high latency. Never knew there was a way at doing the math. Supposedly I can change some things with my ecc memory in my bios but 1 step at a time lol.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 5, 2022)

The older Dells require X64 low density RAM and Crucial is good about that. It's even in the part# of most of the Crucial brand. 51264=4GB 25664=2GB. Right there in plain sight.
In my situation I've had older GSkill run, and newer ones with the same part# replaced under warranty not work at all.  I suspect they would both run in newer systems. 
The worst thing about LGA775 is the 2 channel memory. So any improvement there is worth pursuing. But it's a dirty little secret of multiplier overclocking that you don't necessarily have to leave anything on the table vs. FSB overclocking. BTW, X48 chipset supports XMP memory profiles. So the XPS430 board may get heatsinked and used after all.
 There is DDR2 CAS4 10ns out  there. But 4GB modules would be a big ask, and much of it is overvolted anyway.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 6, 2022)

It's interesting where the low latency memory showed up in the scores at userbenchmark. My CPU is now rated 95% ranking for it's type at stock speed, and my GPU is at 98%. I'm not sure if it's at stock speed or if MSI Afterburner is still in play. But it's a single fan card so OC may not explain it all. The RAM score is still low % because the same RAM is running in 3 channel, and 4 channel systems. I had the same thing with the X5470 Xeon due to it being a dual socket CPU. Stuck in the bottom 50%.


			Dell OptiPlex 380 Performance Results - UserBenchmark
		

This isn't on the leaderboard because my best run was my Xeon tweaked with Setfsb ( not much there on G41) and tuned up GPU. Xeon was 58%,59% GPU. The Q9505s is 57.3% and GPU is 57.7%. Considering the 1.5 multiplier difference, and twice the cache, with a 65W CPU versus a 120W that's a pretty good deal.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 9, 2022)

I came across the Dell factory overclock settings for the X58 Alienware systems. They're doing it in the BIOS. But it might give some starting point for a T3500 TS overclock.





						RE: Alienware Area 51 ALX i7 LGA1366 X58 System Main Motherboard J560M
					

Resetting System Setup (BIOS) Defaults Clears Overclocking Settings on the Alienware Aurora and Area 51   When resetting the System Setup (BIOS) to its default settings on the Alienware Aurora and Area 51, whether using the jumper or in BIOS keyboard commands, the factory shipped overclocked...




					www.dell.com


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 9, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> I came across the Dell factory overclock settings for the X58 Alienware systems. They're doing it in the BIOS. But it might give some starting point for a T3500 TS overclock.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That would be kinda cool!


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## unclewebb (Feb 9, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> They're doing it in the BIOS.


ThrottleStop already allows you to overclock the T3500. The Extreme Core i7-980X and 990X and the Xeon W3680 and W3690 can be overclocked by using ThrottleStop because all of these CPUs have an unlocked multiplier. You can also use ThrottleStop to increase the TDP and TDC values as long as the CPU is not locked.

Any decent X58 desktop motherboard allows BCLK overclocking but this has to be done in the BIOS before Windows boots up. BCLK overclocking while in Windows can screw up the accuracy of some of the internal clocks and should be avoided.

Same thing for voltage control. You can adjust this in the BIOS on desktop boards. Core i 1st Gen CPUs do not have an integrated voltage regulator (FIVR) so software voltage adjustment by using ThrottleStop is never going to be possible.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 9, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> ThrottleStop already allows you to overclock the T3500.


I think he means the bclk and multi overclocking that seemed to have been present in the Alienware BIOS in systems Dell built.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 9, 2022)

It's a little confusing because Throttlestop does adjust Voltage on the unlocked LGA775 CPUs which also don't have FIVR.  It's done directly by choosing Voltage.
  X58 seems to do it by choosing an "offset". But I have no idea where or how the "offset" takes place. Also no idea what the actual resulting Voltage would be.
I have one of the Alienware  Aurora boards sitting around here. It would be my first ATX build since socket 7 days. There were a couple Aurora versions with different factory OC limits and I think mine is the more restricted version. The AW MB is an MSI product so it may have aftermarket features other Dells won't have.
It's interesting that LGA1136 uses the same VRD 11 Voltage table as LGA775. But VID6 is set high which limits Voltage to 1.2125 or less. I haven't found the LGA1366 socket pinout to go further.
But there seems to be some LGA775 DNA in there somewhere.
Anyway there are some Dell approved TDP and TDC settings to work from.


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## unclewebb (Feb 9, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> It's a little confusing because Throttlestop does adjust Voltage on the unlocked LGA775 CPUs


Software CPU voltage control is possible on the older Core 2 Duo based CPUs and it is possible on the 4th Gen and newer CPUs that have the FIVR. Unfortunately it is not possible to use software to control the voltage of the 1st, 2nd or 3rd Gen Core i CPUs. For these CPUs, voltage control is only possible in the BIOS. I think desktop motherboards feed voltage to the CPU directly and ignore the VRD voltage table. Intel XTU and ThrottleStop have never allowed voltage control of the early Core i CPUs because there is nothing there to control. 



Retrorockit said:


> some Dell approved TDP and TDC settings


Those Dell recommended values look familiar. I used a TDP value of 180W to run the TS Bench at full speed without any throttling when overclocking a T3500 - W3680. I think TDC was OK at its stock value. This thread has been going for quite a while now. 









						Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs
					

Yes, but not on my mainboard :D Thats the problem. Otherwise the x5650 would be enough.   That was general information to help others who may want to try this. They are socket 1156 CPUs. When I first posted that I wasn't aware the i5 655K was 2 core so I added that info as a clarification.  The...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




It is always best to increase TDP and TDC as much as necessary so there is no power throttling. ThrottleStop accurately tracks the CPU multiplier so it is easy to see when these limits are set too low.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 10, 2022)

From what I saw in the VRD11 datasheet VID6 which has a value of -.400V. (from 1.6125V.) is always high on LGA1366 and then excluded from what the CPU can select.  It looks like the MSI mother board BIOS uses pull down resistors on the Voltage regulator to create an offset from whatever CPU Voltage is already there. So the Voltage IS fixed on the unlocked LGA1366 CPUs. At least as far as OEM systems are concerned. It looks like any changes will need to be done in hardware. I wonder if the W3690 is just binned higher than the W3680, or if it could have a higher VID setting also?
Can Throttlestop still reduce the Voltage on these CPUs if it was modded a little too high?


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## unclewebb (Feb 10, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> Can ThrottleStop still reduce the Voltage on these CPUs


ThrottleStop has zero control of voltage on the the 1st Gen Core i CPUs.

The W3680 and W3690 are basically identical coming down the assembly line. It is likely that the CPUs that needed the least amount of voltage to run reliably became W3690 processors and the ones that needed a little more voltage became W3680 processors. A W3680 would likely have a voltage table that is slightly higher than a W3690.  

Intel has been doing this since the beginning of time. They make slight changes to MHz and voltage so they can create a wide variety or retail products. This allows them to sell as many CPUs off the wafer as possible. They do the same thing with the 10850K and 10900K. The CPUs that can run each core reliably at 5.3 GHz at reasonable voltage become 10900K. The ones that cannot run this speed reliably are given extra voltage, they are slowed down 100 MHz to 5.2 GHz and these become 10850K. 

I have one of these 10850K. Below 5000 MHz, the default voltage curve is very similar to a 10900K. Trying to run at 5.3 GHz is possible but it takes high voltage which creates an insane amount of heat. Not worth it so it is best to run this chip at a maximum of 5.2 GHz.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 10, 2022)

OK thanks for the reply. That means if i want to try a VID tapemod I will have to go directly to the desired Voltage, and not overshoot and then adjust back down.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 18, 2022)

I looked into the VID tapemod option and found that they have multiplexed some signals onto the VID pins. But they're used before Powergood, and not to run the computer after boot. One of them activates VRD11.1 which is more restrictive than VRD11. A VRM hardmod might be the easy way out.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 20, 2022)

So can I make what I think is a reasonable assumption? Doing a vrm hard mod on something with no documentation such as my 5810. I have a 6 phase vrm, 6 MOSFETs, 6 chokes for the cpu. There are 4 caps placed in front of them assume they feed the vrm. Infront of the caps are 4 resistors. Would this be the same situation as I see with GPU modding where I figure out the resistance of those resistors and just solder on the same resistor on top to trick it into thinking half current? I don't need to trick voltage as I believe I don't have a lock there. Or going up past 1.3v is going to give me more heat than I can deal with anyways. If these are just shunt resistors this should work shouldn't it? I can only find Intel documentation for vrm layout on first gen xeons. The schematics I found appear to be much more simple than what I have.

Other than that here is a photo of the vrm and I have the data sheet on the MOSFETs. 


The MOSFETs are rated for 45amps. Right now as far as I can figure with efficiency loss the voltage and wattage I can see that I'm running I'd be pulling about 22 amps through each MOSFET.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 20, 2022)

Most Dell computers are not operated by the people who own them. Some of them ( maybe all?) are mission critical to someone. So anti tampering is a legitimate consideration for those applications.. If you don't own it don't do this. Overclocking without Voltage increase is fairly benign. This is not!

It's done between that area and the 12V power connector. There will be some MOSFETS and capacitors there too. The VRM chip is usually square with 36 or 40 pins. Unfortunately I only know the specific pinout for the Dimension E520. But the VSENSE pin is a feedback to the VRM chip to confirm proper regulation. If you pull that down with a resistor to GRD (trim pot.)  you will have a Voltage adjustment. But it may need a direct measurement of Voltage installed also. The mod is done at the step down regulator from 12V. to CPU Voltage, not at the CPU itself. Since most enthusiast motherboards already have Voltage control it's more common among GPU modders. Understand that if you install a 20k trim pot. your initial Voltage will be that of a 20k pulldown resistor. Your 5810 may be quite different than the LGA1366 systems. You might have other options. Since the CPU reads the VSENSE pin it should be spoofed bt this mod also. If you install a fixed resistor it will create an offset.
The reason for the mod on the E520 is the 65nm CPUs it ran can actually use more than Intels 1.6V. cutoff limit. Especially for short CPUZ validation runs. The VRD 11.1 table the 32nm X58 chips use is 1.2V max. due to a .4V pulldown pin (VID 6) that is active in all instances on VRD 11.1. Any more than that needs to come from the MB itself. Dell for legitimate warranty and service contract considerations does not provide this.
You might be the first person in the history of the world to do this mod on that system. That's not unusual in this thread. The data sheet for your socket, your CPU, and your VRM chip will probably give you what you need.

I'm a retired truck mechanic with no electronics background. Someone else explained this mod to me. You may get better advice form someone else.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 20, 2022)

I guess what I'm confused about is the voltage vs current. In GPU hard modding they are only going after shunt resistors. Now the mod is still changing the voltage out of the resistors. It's programmed in that if you pass 12v through 20k ohm the voltage out of the resistors will vary based on load. I'm not in tune enough to make quick determinations on figuring out how many amps it takes to drag it down to 11.8 or anything. But all I'm getting at is if you change the voltage sense coming from a shunt resistor then all your doing is altering the sensed load. Voltage seen going through the vrm should be untouched and read accurately. Just playing around today I managed to get a stable 4.3ghz all core. Really dragged the voltage down to do it. As long as it stays under 140watts sustained it's good. And I know I have a good chip since all core 4.3 is happening at 1.16v. from what I read on the i7-5630 which is really the same cpu people have to push way more voltage to get clocks like that. Also my fans never ramped up and temps stayed at 70c for an hour of cinibench.
If it matters I'd like to stay away from using a pot in anything. If I used a fixed resistor of the same resistance then I know my shown current draw just needs doubled. I honestly bet that getting close to 280 watts wouldn't be all that hard with this chip as you approach 5ghz. If possible I'd like to stay at or below the 1.3v threshold. If I can get there that should lead to a stable 4.8ghz based off the 2 thread test I've done with that voltage.

And for anyone else and I'll verify this next week on the 5810 I just bought my son. I believe that the 1650v3 can be clocked to 4.2/4.3 completely stock in this machine. With as low as I have the voltage I don't really see the need for the cooling mods that I did. 6 cores hyper threaded at that speed is still pretty respectable in 2022 no matter what you need the PC to do.



Retrorockit said:


> You might be the first person in the history of the world to do this mod on that system. That's not unusual in this thread. The data sheet for your socket, your CPU, and your VRM chip will probably give you what you need.


Fyi everything I search for custom anything for my system goes back to all the sites I've posted on. Since this has been going on for over a year now sometimes I think I've found something only to come across my username in the thread lol.





This is the controller I found on my board. Anyone care to help me make sense of it?

And this. its a 3566A. The only difference I can see is that the B version was certified for something intel wanted. otherwise I believe the are identical. except the data sheet for the B (the one I have) does not show anything other than that pinout.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 21, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> The MOSFETs are rated for 45amps. Right now as far as I can figure with efficiency loss the voltage and wattage I can see that I'm running I'd be pulling about 22 amps through each MOSFET.


I would glue heatsinks to the top of them and call it good. Replacing them would render minimal gains given their ratings and you expected usage level.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 21, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> I would glue heatsinks to the top of them and call it good. Replacing them would render minimal gains given their ratings and you expected usage level.


Photo is old. Had a heatsink on them for some time now. Wasn't questioning replacing them but more on how can I trick them into reporting lower current. Was only making reference to the headroom I have with them to pull some more power.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 21, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> Wasn't questioning replacing them but more on how can I trick them into reporting lower current. Was only making reference to the headroom I have with them to pull some more power.


Ah. Missed that part of the conversation. Sorry.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 21, 2022)

The mod I'm discussing is Voltage regulation. I haven't looked at your system so I can only discuss the general modification. The VSENSE pin reports the regulated Voltage back to the VRM chip. A parallel resistor running to GRD will lower the returned value. The regulator will increase Voltage output to "correct" for this shortage. It's like putting a calibrated leak in a turbo wastegate actuator line ( I know you're a car guy).
Volts x Amps=Watts. So the current A can stay the same, but the power W will increase with V. So "Current" is a distraction for this mod.The Volt Mod calculator I posted earlier will show the resistance needed to produce a desired Voltage offset if you know the existing Voltage, and the resistance to GRD of the VSENSE pin. Those tables are in mV. Just add your own decimal point.
Be aware that Dell PSUs are multi rail and have 216W per rail (12V x 18A=216W). If you don't have 2- 12V rails  ( or an aftermarket PSU) feeding the CPU connector you will only get so far. The MB fan header is running off of this also. If you increase the Voltage the fan may speed up due to heat and it can crash due to the extra draw on that  circuit.. I've run the power leads from the fan to a different 12V. rail, and run the power leads from the MB fan connector to a small chipset fan to avoid a fan fail message. I also make sure all my drives are on a different rail than the CPU. Usually this means SSDs in or around the front drive bays. The 12V rails will be Yellow, White, or Blue. Then striped to add more if needed. With your newer CPU some of this may not be needed.  An 800W Dell PSU may only be providing 216W to the CPU and fans. In the case of my original TS QX6800 project getting the fan off of the MB header was the biggest improvement there was. That was even with an EVGA single rail PSU installed.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 21, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> The mod I'm discussing is Voltage regulation. I haven't looked at your system so I can only discuss the general modification. The VSENSE pin reports the regulated Voltage back to the VRM chip. A parallel resistor running to GRD will lower the returned value. The regulator will increase Voltage output to "correct" for this shortage. It's like putting a calibrated leak in a turbo wastegate actuator line ( I know you're a car guy).
> Volts x Amps=Watts. So the current A can stay the same, but the power W will increase with V. So "Current" is a distraction for this mod.The Volt Mod calculator I posted earlier will show the resistance needed to produce a desired Voltage offset if you know the existing Voltage, and the resistance to GRD of the VSENSE pin. Those tables are in mV. Just add your own decimal point.
> Be aware that Dell PSUs are multi rail and have 216W per rail (12V x 18A=216W). If you don't have 2- 12V rails  ( or an aftermarket PSU) feeding the CPU connector you will only get so far. The MB fan header is running off of this also. If you increase the Voltage the fan may speed up due to heat and it can crash due to the extra draw on that  circuit.. I've run the power leads from the fan to a different 12V. rail, and run the power leads from the MB fan connector to a small chipset fan to avoid a fan fail message. I also make sure all my drives are on a different rail than the CPU. Usually this means SSDs in or around the front drive bays. The 12V rails will be Yellow, White, or Blue. Then striped to add more if needed. With your newer CPU some of this may not be needed.  An 800W Dell PSU may only be providing 216W to the CPU and fans. In the case of my original TS QX6800 project getting the fan off of the MB header was the biggest improvement there was. That was even with an EVGA single rail PSU installed.


I'll try and draw a diagram up tonight if how I think it should work. But I don't believe I have separate rails. My PC takes a server psu. 12v 1 rail. My cpu power is a 10 pin eps. That's huge and should be able to handle anything. But my idea doesn't change any reported voltage only reported current....which is technically done by voltage but not in the sense your talking about.

Ok I think I'm yanking the motherboard tonight. Stumbled across this by accident but if you look at my physical photo of the vrm you will see a "large" resistor next to each one. Those almost have to be the shunt resistors I'm talking about. One side should have no resistance back to the eps plug and the other end should go straight to vccin of the MOSFET. I can check all this with my meter. If that's the case I should be able to measure the resistance across and just buy 6 more shunt resistors and solder them on top . The vsense off of these should just be millivolts. That millivolt reading is what is relaying current drawn. If I cut the millivolt reading in half then half current should be reported without changing any actual voltage regulation.

Ok mb pulled. 2 things. Sorry you are right I have multiple 12v rails on that psu. I'll figure out how many the cpu uses. Next I believe the 4 components Infront of the 4 caps for the vrm are the shunts. Very low resistance. Too low for my fluke to measure accurately. I'll have to see if the fluke I have at work goes lower. But I have a direct path to vccin to my MOSFET and a direct path to my eps socket. Designation on the board is "LP"


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## Retrorockit (Feb 22, 2022)

Your at the point where my ability to help is probably at  it's end. You might try a TV repair shop, or cell phone repair shop and see if you can find someone local with experience doing this sort of mod. Maybe Badcaps.net could help. I'm afraid my vocabulary is limited to simple electrical work. We seem to be using 2 different vocabularies. With a newer CPU 1- 216W rail may be all you need if you can move other components off of it. Some of my LGA775 stuff goes beyond that power level. The PSU on that is very proprietary so your options are probably limited there.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 22, 2022)

I did do a pinout on my psu. 5 wires 2 on 1 rail 3 on another. So yep have 2 rails on my 10 pin. And ya i think I may find a radio repair shop. I've talked with some of those guys in the past local to my area on older car circuit boards. I found out today that my other fluke meter nor any meter in the shop can accurately read milli ohms so testing is pretty much impossible. I could really use a full schematic on the motherboard.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 22, 2022)

Dell publishes very few pinouts. Mostly the standard connectors. Schematic is probably not going to happen.
My CB radio guy is afraid of 6 layer boards. But does reflash/repair automotive ECMs. It's hit or miss with those guys. But usually someone will know someone  who does this. He referred me to a TV tech for MB work. He used to repair TVs there himself. So it varies. The younger guys tend to be in the cell phone shops.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 23, 2022)

On another note I'm still waiting for the e5-1650v3 to show up for my boys PC. I got sick of waiting and since mine is tore down I just took my cpu and stuck it in his. I have found in a short amount of time I became spoiled. After installation I got TS up and did a 4.0 overclock. Easy on this chip real easy. First thing is the stock cooler with arctic 5 on it runs at 77c at 4ghz. My cooler has no fan ramp up and keeps it at 70c at 4.3 full load. Next I installed cinibench for a little test. Not really needed since I know where this chip clocks. I have a 2.5 SSD in this system. Just extracting the cinibench files drove me mad. I've gotten so used to my nvme drive ripping through things like extracting a bunch of files. So in all I said a bit ago I bet I could run 4.3 on a bone stock system. That doesn't work. I didn't try it but since the fans were already ramping up I think it's safe to say it needs a bigger cooler which unfortunately is a PITA to do. So 4.0ghz for anyone browsing is what you can do with TS using a bone stock T5810 with an E5-1650v3 cpu.qnd I almost forgot. Just having voltage control makes this system 10 times better. Without changing anything this Dell is at pretty much every throttle at idle with the stock power curve. Even if you don't overclock a touch more voltage will make this chip stay up high.

Also I just posted a thread over at badcaps. Thanks for the recommendation. I've never been on that forum before and it looks promising by some of the info floating around over there. I'll keep you guys posted on any updates.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 25, 2022)

So I found this. https://www.sqltechbloq.com/motherboard.html#contact/

Requires some survey Bs to get the download. Seemed endless to me and I don't know if I'm being redirected or what. I tried posting a comment saying that I'd be willing to straight up pay the author for the download but I was not able to do so. Would someone else mind checking this out and telling me if you think it's legit?



frankr2994 said:


> So I found this. https://www.sqltechbloq.com/motherboard.html#contact/
> 
> Requires some survey Bs to get the download. Seemed endless to me and I don't know if I'm being redirected or what. I tried posting a comment saying that I'd be willing to straight up pay the author for the download but I was not able to do so. Would someone else mind checking this out and telling me if you think it's legit?


NVM it's total Bs found the thread where the user posted the link....for a totally different PC with the exact same post and user replies. It's just an auto generated scam replacing the PC name with whatever your searching for.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 26, 2022)

Ok found this today. Back side of the motherboard there are 6 resistors measuring approximately 2.4 ohms. They are right underneath the 6 MOSFETs. Only difference is I was looking for something inline with the positive circuit. These are on the ground side and by design anyways they look much more like the shunt resistors I've seen. 





Also found another pwm controller ncp6133 . I don't know how this fits into the circuit yet. But this is off the data sheet for it. Looks like I'm on the right track. My office is being occupied by my 3 year old niece tonight so tomorrow is another day lol.
"Total Current Sense Amplifier
The NCP6133 uses a patented approach to sum the phase
currents into a single temperature compensated total current
signal. This signal is then used to generate the output voltage
droop, total current limit, and the output current monitoring
functions. The total current signal is floating with respect to
CSREF. The current signal is the difference between
CSCOMP and CSREF. The Ref(n) resistors sum the signals
from the output side of the inductors to create a low
impedance virtual ground. The amplifier actively filters and
gains up the voltage applied across the inductors to recover
the voltage drop across the inductor series resistance (DCR).
Rth is placed near an inductor to sense the temperature of the
inductor. This allows the filter time constant and gain to be
a function of the Rth NTC resistor and compensate for the
change in the DCR with temperature.
Figure 8.
-
+
CSN1
CSN2
CSN3
SWN1
SWN2
SWN3
Rref1
Rref2
Rref3
10
10
10
Rph1
Rph2
Rph3
Cref
1n
CSREF CSCOMP CSSUM
Ccs1
Ccs2
Rcs2 Rcs1
82.5 k 35.7 k
Rth
100 k
The DC gain equation for the current sensing:
VCSCOMP−CSREF -
 −
Rcs2  Rcs1*Rth
Rcs1Rth
Rph * IoutTotal * DCR
(eq. 2)
Set the gain by adjusting the value of the Rph resistors.
The DC gain should set to the output voltage droop. If the
voltage from CSCOMP to CSREF is less than 100 mV at
ICCMAX then it is recommended to increase the gain of the
CSCOMP amp and add a resister divider to the Droop pin
filter. This is required to provide a good current signal to
offset voltage ratio for the ILIMIT pin. When no droop is
needed, the gain of the amplifier should be set to provide
~100 mV across the current limit programming resistor at
full load. The values of Rcs1 and Rcs2 are set based on the
100k NTC and the temperature effect of the inductor and
should not need to be changed. The NTC should be placed
near the closest inductor. The output voltage droop should
be set with the droop filter divider.
The pole frequency in the CSCOMP filter should be set
equal to the zero from the output inductor. This allows the
circuit to recover the inductor DCR voltage drop current
signal. Ccs1 and Ccs2 are in parallel to allow for fine tuning
of the time constant using commonly available values. It is
best to fine tune this filter during transient testing.
FZ -
 DCR @ 25° C
2 * PI * LPhase
(eq. 3)
FP -
 1
2 * PI * Rcs2  Rcs1*Rth@25° C
Rcs1Rth@25° C
 * (Ccs1  Ccs2)
(eq. 4)"


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## frankr2994 (Feb 28, 2022)

I need to bring my needle point leads home for my meter to continue testing. I really do think if it happens it's going to be all me lol. I have all this info on 2 separate electronics forums and no response. The one I've been on for a while and I know there are very knowledgeable people. But getting into 50+ pins on a pwm controller is probably out of many people's scopes of knowledge. I have some feelers out there on getting a motherboard schematic and I'm going to call a company tomorrow that specializes in motherboard repair. It's a long shot but maybe I can pay a diagnostic fee for them to share something if they have it. Right now it isn't much help as all I have for components in question is typical circuit examples. And obviously on our multilayer circuit boards I can't visually follow traces. There is a chance if I can figure this out it can be applied to the 5820 as well. I've already read on the Dell forum the new w series xeons are " too powerful" to be used without constant throttle.running stock.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 28, 2022)

I looked at some high resolution photos of your board and I can't see where it goes from 12V to CPU Voltage. So I can't help. The PWM controller, and the VRM controller are probably 2 different things. Dell does a very good job of locking down the PWM. That's the whole reason for Throttlestop multiplier overclocking. The Nehalem based CPUs brought some things with them from LGA775 to X58.  Your's is a lot newer, so much has probably changed.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 28, 2022)

I have 12v all the up to the MOSFETs I had a heatsink over. The main pwm controller for those is a 6+1 phase controller. I'm not sure if they are even using the +1 phase for the memory due to there being more than 1 set of MOSFETs for the memory. The other pwm controller I found is listed as a 1/2/3 phase cpu controller. It's the only thing I've found that had pins to gather and report current usage.

What I really don't know is if 1 controller is in charge of the other or if they are totally separate. Hopefully with my needle leads tonight I'll be able to sort it


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## Retrorockit (Feb 28, 2022)

I think the trend at Dell has been to eliminate the lower Volatge rails, and drop everything straight from 12V. Buck transformers don't seem to care what the input Voltage is. You can probably get the datasheet for your CPU socket, and specific CPU and learn something about how things are being done in that generation of CPU. Dell has been moving away from the 24 pin ATX connector for some time now. Unfortunately they haven't standardized on anything else.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 28, 2022)

Ya cpu pinouts on x99 are well not great. Some basic things are identified from what I can find but I haven't found a full schematic.


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## Retrorockit (Feb 28, 2022)

Here are 900+ pages of it. Theoretically it will contain some useful information.




__





						X99 dtatsheet at DuckDuckGo
					

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.




					duckduckgo.com
				



Of course VID now stands for Vendor ID register.


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## frankr2994 (Feb 28, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> Here are 900+ pages of it. Theoretically it will contain some useful information.



Quote of the day there. Everything I look at work or at home theoretically helps.... usually never does lol.  I will start browsing through it regardless. Thanks for the homework in tracking that down.

Ok think the 2nd pwm controller I found is for the memory. I've found 2 of them. So back into the 6 phase vrm controller. Pins 5 and 6 are vsen and vrtn. I have 100 ohms of resistance to my 2.2 ohm resistors in question. This was measured with everything off the board so 100 ohms being alot still means it's in the circuit. I really just don't know how to make this schematic out on what I should be seeing at those pins.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 1, 2022)

If you want to experiment I would suggest a 20Kohm potentiometer to GRD from VSEN. The 20K value should give a slight bump in initial Voltage, and includes all lower values by adjustment.
If you can find a point to measure CPU Voltage then the effect of the mod can be determined. The initial value of the trim pot. will affect the initial Voltage bump, and the sensitivity of the adjustment. Less is more in both cases.
You could adjust the potentiometer to lower values (15K or 10K) and test to find what you need for a fixed resistor, or other trim pot. value solution. 20K is .5% change in value form 100 Ohm. My guess is it would be a safe starting point But it's an uneducated guess..


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## frankr2994 (Mar 1, 2022)

See what I just don't know and ya I guess it would just be an experiment is if vsen is just a voltage monitor and I trick it. Obviously that will let me apply more voltage. IF that has nothing to do with the current measurement then the PC may think there is only .8v but still show the correct 140 watts and throttles back. I posted a question on the community forum that makes the vrm controller. I'm starting to think that maybe I need to trick the 6 isen circuits. Again this goes back to all the reading I did on the GPU hard mod. When the modify the shunt resistors near the power connectors the are purely changing reported current. Actual die voltage continues to be read correctly. But there are 2 separate mods and I haven't looked into the 2nd much. It's my understanding that voltage control is non existent on some gpus and they also have to trick that to get another 10th or so volt. I would assume that's more in line with the mod your speaking of. I haven't played much with overclocking on my 1070 due to the immediate throttle it hits so I can't even say if I really could change the voltage. I also won't be experimenting with that since it just cost me 300 bucks and I can buy another t5810 for 200 lol.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 2, 2022)

I play with LGA775 for a reason. They're dirt cheap, and in the case of Optiplexes totally expendable.
The thinking is if you spoof the VSENS pin the regulator will spoof the 6 VRM channels all at once. But if you've found a community for that VRM then you're way ahead of me.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 2, 2022)

Got a response. According to them they can't help without the motherboard schematic. Go figure.

"Re: IR3566B current sense 
Hello ,

There are dedicate sense pins (ISENx) for the measurement and the telemetry for voltage, current and temperature of both the loops are read through PMBus/I2C interface. Unfortunately, we cannot offer more help since there is no detailed schematic available for your product. Request your understanding. "

And I got another response from a source that tried to help me out. Dell got back to him and said the schematic is under a nda. I'm going to do some more poking around before I try the experiment. I'm cool with wrecking the board but I'd rather not burn up a cpu.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 9, 2022)

I came across this video. It shows you can get better performance with a mid range GPU than a high end GPU with low end CPUs, and AMD is better for this than Nvidia by over 20%. A lot depends on what resolution and detail level you're running at. But you can get better performance with a low end CPU if you get the right GPU , and also save some money on high end monitors too. It's long and complex because this guy did a lot of work to produce this. This may change the GPU hierarchy for older CPUs.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 9, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> I came across this video. It shows you can get better performance with a mid range GPU than a high end GPU with low end CPUs, and AMD is better for this than Nvidia by over 20%. A lot depends on what resolution and detail level you're running at. But you can get better performance with a low end CPU if you get the right GPU , and also save some money on high end monitors too. It's long and complex because this guy did a lot of work to produce this. This may change the GPU hierarchy for older CPUs.


That is bizarre.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 9, 2022)

In this thread I'll take that as a compliment.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 10, 2022)

Now is there any way that amd will just play better together? That wouldn't be the craziest thing out there if I heard that there is some little micro code somewhere letting that happen. Someone donate a bunch of GPUs to me and I'll test them on my xeon for a more relevant test lmao.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 12, 2022)

It seems that less microcode is more with aging CPUs. They did play that game a while back with Crossfire, and SLI needing different chipsets or motherboards. Probably best not to go there.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 20, 2022)

Ok news...I did not do any hard mods and actually good thing. I have zero idea what the hell changed here but whatever it is....is awesome. I do not have an overclockable chip for myself at the moment. My 1650v3 is now in my son's computer. I tossed a e5-2640v3 I had laying around in mine....8 cores of suck. Playing with TS shown me that like every limit is hit all the time and it turbos to 2.8ghz...however I ticked the power it uCode 0x43 box and it worked for showing reduced pkg power. Didn't help this cpu out at all but it was showing 12 watts at full load. So I immediately ran into my kids room and brought up TS and ticked the box. Cranked turbo up to 4.4ghz and upped the voltage. Absolutely no limit reasons ran flawlessly. Reported like 18 watts package power. Now I had to set it back down because his stock cooler can't cope but WTH.. I know I ticked that box like 40 times before with no results. On my kids 5810 it's running the most recent bios and I even have the tpm 2.0 firmware installed for possible win 11 at some point. I've wasted like a million hours with bios mods and trying to figure out how to hard mod and there is no need. I'll be buying an e5-1660v3 here soon. 8 cores unlocked. It's f'n awesome I'm just going to be thermal limited.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 20, 2022)

Don't feel bad. I spent 6 months thrashing my Dimension E520 at 3.45Ghz. Then took the fan off of the MB and 4Ghz happened. All the other stuff I'd been doing suddenly added up to something.

HWBOT shows average overclock on air is 4.24GHz and water is 4.5GHz so it's looking pretty respectable now.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 20, 2022)

Well because my kid actually does something with his PC as in gaming vs me just pissing around. I won't take the cpu back out......I was however very close to swapping coolers and my butchered case cover. I'm shopping now. I'd like to get a 1680v3 but they are 200 bucks. A 1660v3 is around 100. The 1680 seems pointless at that price because I could go up to a 6950x for 250. I fear the 6950x would cook though on my super micro heatsink. I think that chip is reserved for liquid cooling.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 20, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> In this thread I'll take that as a compliment.


It certainly wasn't meant as a insult.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 20, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> Well because my kid actually does something with his PC as in gaming vs me just pissing around. I won't take the cpu back out......I was however very close to swapping coolers and my butchered case cover. I'm shopping now. I'd like to get a 1680v3 but they are 200 bucks. A 1660v3 is around 100. The 1680 seems pointless at that price because I could go up to a 6950x for 250. I fear the 6950x would cook though on my super micro heatsink. I think that chip is reserved for liquid cooling.








						Intel Xeon E5 1650 v3 @ HWBOT
					

774 submissions, 45.647/100 hw index




					hwbot.org
				




How does your son feel about adding the cooler? It seems 4.4Ghz would be good for gaming with 4 channel RAM.


----------



## frankr2994 (Mar 21, 2022)

My kids at the stage that if he doesn't see lag he's happy. Other than that I'm sure he'd love some RGB.  he's just too young yet. I have him very interested in PC's but I'm still talking Greek to him about cpu speed. Besides his PC being like 90 percent stock means no problems like ever. I go juicing it up I'll be getting nagged all the time for something lol. My kid is 9 btw. If you think that's to young for his own computer your probably right lol.


----------



## Retrorockit (Mar 21, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> My kids at the stage that if he doesn't see lag he's happy. Other than that I'm sure he'd love some RGB.  he's just too young yet. I have him very interested in PC's but I'm still talking Greek to him about cpu speed. Besides his PC being like 90 percent stock means no problems like ever. I go juicing it up I'll be getting nagged all the time for something lol. My kid is 9 btw. If you think that's to young for his own computer your probably right lol.



He's not at peer pressure age yet. I'm not sure RGB will add much cool factor to a Dell workstation. Only one way to find out.


lexluthermiester said:


> It certainly wasn't meant as a insult.



"Bizzare"  usually has a negative connotation. But workstation overclocking, and secret unlocked Xeons CPUs all fall into that category, so it fits in here. More of comment on the nature of this thread than anything else.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 21, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> "Bizzare" usually has a negative connotation.


I've never perceived it that way. And as a general rule, in the english speaking world, it's not intended in an insulting context. It's a way of stating that something is strikingly strange or amazingly weird. Now that I think about it, I've never actually heard/seen the word "Bizarre" used in an insulting way. But I digress, we're meandering from the topic..


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## Retrorockit (Mar 21, 2022)

I don't think I ever used the word "insulting". That notion originated with you. I think the word I actually used was "compliment". I think the word "bizarre"  at least here in the US has a connotation of something "disturbing". Not the same as "insulting" at all. But sometimes words acquire a different implication in different places (or not). Even different parts of the US.
Since this thread is essentially disruptive in nature, that is the aspect of "bizarre" that I took as a compliment.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 21, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> He's not at peer pressure age yet. I'm not sure RGB will add much cool factor to a Dell workstation. Only one way to find out.



It'll be hard for peer pressure to set in on material items. Parents today are odd to me. At least I see with other families I know is cool stuff is bought for the parents and the kids get the tail end of it. I'm the other way around. Almost no money spent on myself. Kids get all the stuff. Maybe a little spoiled but I don't care. I'll make sure as he ages I'll work the hell out of him labor wise. And his 144hz gaming monitor he has...that's like 3 b days worth of money he had saved up I made him use for it. Ask for RGB. If he wants it he'll have to buy that too lol. Computers,VR,game consoles,4 wheeler and he already has 2 rifles (complements of my dad....) He has enough not to get bullied on objects for a while lol.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 21, 2022)

He's not competing for girls yet. The need for oneupmanship hasn't arrived yet.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 21, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> He's not competing for girls yet. The need for oneupmanship hasn't arrived yet.



Ask my wife is she gives a flying F&@$ about my PC rig lmao.

So I was going to piss around with lapping this 2640 cpu. I have prime 95 running a torture test small fft. I immediately got power budget limit set and it started throttling back from it's already slow 2.8ghz. I turned on power cut and reported wattage is 9.4 watts at a full avx workload and stays steady at 2.8ghz now. However this is not a cpu I can check to see what lapping does. Prime95 has been running for about 20 minutes now and I haven't broke 60c. I'll probably still piss around with lapping it just to get the hang of it but since I can't even get my fans to ramp up....at all I don't think I'll see a difference in temp no matter what I do.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 22, 2022)

Try HWInfo 64 or some other utility with a manual fan controller. The Dell fan curve may not do anything until 60*C. Lapping was worth about 3*C for me. But I was probably pushing around 200W through the QX6800. Numbers around 10W are hard for me to relate to.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 22, 2022)

No no the real number would be about 120 watts on that cpu. The powercut feature in TS is letting it report 10watts. The tdp on that chip I think is 95 watts which is why prime95 triggered power budget. TS fixed that. What I wanted to see was like my other chip when it got close to 80c it didn't matter if the fans were at 40 percent or 100 I couldn't draw anymore heat out.  With better heat transfer I'd like to see the fans actually accomplish something. Since at 120 estimated watts the heatsink I'm using almost doesn't need a fan it's sort of a pointless test lol.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 22, 2022)

Your other CPU has a TDP of 140W. From what I recall on other CPUs 175W is what the stock soldered heatspreader is rated to disperse. I haven't found the spec. on that one. So lapping and high quality TIM will be required. There are some TIM that are phase change (liquid when hot) and a couple are actually low temperature (100*C) solders. Turning off hyperthreading might gain some headroom also. Grizzly makes a few high end TIM products. But when just thrashing around with coolers I use Arctic Silver or TX4.
 When you get this finalized a screenshot of your TS settings would be helpful since you seem to be the first one doing this CPU with TS
What size fan does that heatsink take? Is it in the middle or hung off the end?


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## frankr2994 (Mar 22, 2022)

I have been using arctic silver 5 but just ran out. Fan is 90mm hung off the front of it blowing through. It's not the fan that came with it. I bought another system fan that's meant to go in front of my PC. It's like 35mm thick high pressure server fan. Fyi the Dell server fans and cpu fans run on the same connection but wires are switched so I had to repin. The supermicro heatsink had to have the holes drilled out so I could use dells retaining screws. You can see I have washers stacked to get the spring tension back. I'll get another shot tonight. I modified the ram shrouds to go back on.

Oh and the fan I have mounted on the back of the case is the one that came with the heatsink. I have that hooked into the un used HDD fan header. You talked about using something to change the fan curve...I've tried that. You can basically change at what temp they come on full blast nothing else with this Dell. I have the fan set to auto in the bios with base fan speed at 30 percent. Just quiet enough not to annoy. Fans don't ramp up any until it's at 70c. Full tilt is un bearable seeing that has basically 5 server fans in it right now.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 22, 2022)

Those tight fin server type heatsinks need a lot of pressure to get air to go through them. Noise is part of the deal I'm afraid. On my BTX builds I can funnel a 150x50mm 2xCPU workstation fan down to the heatsink . It's not too bad even at full speed.
It looks like you may have room in the front of the case for an AFC1512DG fan.  DG168, MC527, NC466 are some Dell part# I think DG168 comes with a chrome grille sometimes. You could hollow out a 90mm fan for an adapter and duct down to that. They go for about $10.


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 23, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> I have been using arctic silver 5 but just ran out.


You can still buy it. However, Arctic MX-5 performs better. I did a series of tests last year that showed excellent performance.








						[EOL] Arctic MX-5 is here!!Tests incoming! Completed.  Now its MX-6 testing time!
					

Oh I'll pass on that.  That's specifically for TFX.   (I got the best results on my 3090 FE (most stable core temp deltas) applying it like that. SYY-157 still needs full coverage but is easier to get on.  Anyone here use SYY-157 yet?




					www.techpowerup.com
				



Just a suggestion.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 23, 2022)

I don't know where I'd put anymore. The whole front of the PC is a 3 fan module just like in a blade server. Ducts point to pcie cards and ducts to shrouds around memory with cutouts to dump airflow over the vrm area.



lexluthermiester said:


> You can still buy it. However, Arctic MX-5 performs better. I did a series of tests last year that showed excellent performance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haven't bought anything yet. Was looking around. But hey that's nice info. Can you tell me anything about the viscosity? If I'm going to lap this I'd want to go with something pretty thin to promote straight up metal to metal contact where it can. Arctic silver 5 is just a touch too thick and I usually don't see any areas where it has completely pushed out of the way. Always a super thin layer still left on those close area's.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 23, 2022)

Never tried MX5 I guess it's newer than MX4 or the older Arctic Silver 5. Carbon nano material should crush down pretty thin and fill any tiny gap. Sounds pretty good to me.

The AFC1512DG just filled the front of the case by itself. and a 90mm fan next to it. It was cooling 2x 130W CPUs with no duct. It's in the lower right here.

__
		https://flic.kr/p/6YDhA7
 It replaces 2 of the 90mm fans.
Here's a picture of it in a T3500 with it housing MC527.


			https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachments/008-jpg.99505/


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## lexluthermiester (Mar 23, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> Can you tell me anything about the viscosity?


It is viscous and it's got a sticky quality. Takes some effort to spread, but the performance is up there with the best.



frankr2994 said:


> If I'm going to lap this I'd want to go with something pretty thin to promote straight up metal to metal contact where it can.


You should be fine. MX-5 does spread out under pressure.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 23, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> Never tried MX5 I guess it's newer than MX4 or the older Arctic Silver 5. Carbon nano material should crush down pretty thin and fill any tiny gap. Sounds pretty good to me.
> 
> The AFC1512DG just filled the front of the case by itself. and a 90mm fan next to it. It was cooling 2x 130W CPUs with no duct. It's in the lower right here.
> 
> ...



That fan is impressive. Looking around and I can't find anything"good". A fan for my 5.25 bay would blow right into the cpu fan.  A scroll fan would be ideal. There are some Chinese ones out there but I think I gather from the description that they exhaust not intake. And the reviews are pretty bad. Might have to do a diy sometime since I know I could buy everything to make it.

So I found this. Seller sent me an offer because I had it on my watch list. Really cheap but I have no idea how big anything is. I think I found the retention bracket on Amazon so I think I have that covered. Dynatron doesn't list anything like it. The pumps seem to be integrated into the fans so 2 fan connections and that's it. I do have some space top side of my case that I could cut to fit a radiator.
Btw I wasn't really looking for these. Just caught my attention with how low the offer was from the seller lol.









						DYNATRON AIO COOLER  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for DYNATRON AIO COOLER at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## Retrorockit (Mar 23, 2022)

I would definitely buy that AIO. Especially if you have the narrow ILM bracket for it. It might free up the rest of your RAM slots.

The Delta AFC1512DG is a Dell only part.
 I always have a few around and use them whenever I can.

San Ace 150 is the same size but more expensive and comes in a bunch of versions. faster, slower PWM, non PWM.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 24, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> I would definitely buy that AIO. Especially if you have the narrow ILM bracket for it. It might free up the rest of your RAM slots.
> 
> The Delta AFC1512DG is a Dell only part.
> I always have a few around and use them whenever I can.
> ...


Actually all my ram slots are available. Doesn't look like it in the pics but I did try. Slots on both sides of the cooler work just fine.

And fyi since I can't help myself. Pissing with the kids PC now. Got a 4.8ghz run on user benchmark. Good thing the cpu test is so short lol. Temp goes wild fast. I'm going to try for 5ghz lol


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## Retrorockit (Mar 24, 2022)

The info. on the RAM slots will be useful to others considering that cooler. Or maybe even something bigger that does cover those RAM slots. Is 120mm wide a possibility?
Could you get a link up to the Userbenchmark run. If you don't have a fast GPU they tend to get lost in the back pages. I wouldn't be surprised if you have the 1st OC T5810 there.

Found it. 91% CPU performance level, and 98th % ranking for that CPU.


			Dell Precision Tower 5810 Performance Results - UserBenchmark


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## frankr2994 (Mar 24, 2022)

Can't get past 4.8. I ran voltage up to 1.36 at which point it seemed that the voltage alone made it unstable. I couldn't get to the benchmark before it crashed. about 5 seconds after I applied the voltage it went down... below 1.36 it crashed at the beginning of the benchmark. So I guess 4.8 is max on that chip. 
T5810 E5-1650v3 4.8 GHZ Userbenchmark 


Retrorockit said:


> The info. on the RAM slots will be useful to others considering that cooler. Or maybe even something bigger that does cover those RAM slots. Is 120mm wide a possibility?
> Could you get a link up to the Userbenchmark run. If you don't have a fast GPU they tend to get lost in the back pages. I wouldn't be surprised if you have the 1st OC T5810 there.
> 
> Found it. 91% CPU performance level, and 98th % ranking for that CPU.
> ...


No you found the 4.7 run lol. 

If you don't care about having 8 ram slots then yes a 120mm wide heatsink would work. note that you would not be able to use the ram cooling shroud either. I did have to cut the shrouds up a little to get them to fit around the heatsink. I only have them installed not to cool the memory but because they exit out to the side going to the vrm. Other than that there is no direct airflow going to the vrm. Before I realized that damn near every other dell system out there uses a square ilm I had bought a heatsink from I think a T7920. Pretty nice design and actually had a duct in it to push some of the airflow down low to go across the vrm. Can't make it work but I'd assume it works just as good as what mine does. Narrow ILM proved to be much more difficult than what I would have imagined.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 24, 2022)

One of the German cooler companies I think Thermalright, but Maybe Arctic offers a narrow ILM kit for their coolers. TR Macho 120 was fun to put into the T3500 on page 9.
Did you try turning off HT? It doesn't look like it.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 24, 2022)

Thermalright makes coolers. I can't get them though. And yes Ht was on. I'll try it off but previously that only made a difference with heat/wattage and not max clock.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 25, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> Thermalright makes coolers. I can't get them though. And yes Ht was on. I'll try it off but previously that only made a difference with heat/wattage and not max clock.


Yes, TR is my favorite but very hard to find. The threads match Dell hardware. The Macho 120 almost fits in a Dell workstation case. Like most ATX stuff it's designed to clear RAM slots anyway. But maybe not in the right direction for the airflow. Scythe Ninja cooler are huge and non directional airflow, but the cover will need to be spaced up to use one.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 26, 2022)

Ok so I might take the plunge on the aio. Means I have to cut pretty much the entire top of my case off to mount it. Which if I'm being honest I'd love to figure something out that doesn't involve just flat out hacking my PC lol. No pun intended. Anyways if I do that I'll take alot of airflow away from the vrm area. That's when I remember all the Dell dimension PCs I've scraped. Surprisingly I didnt keep any parts(I have lots of old useless parts) the green cpu cooler shrouds. They are for a 92mm fan just like I have mounted as an exhaust fan rear of my PC. One of those shrouds would attach to that fan and pretty much duct down right on top of my vrm. Then it's all on what direction everything is moving. Right now I have 3 intakes in the front and 1 rear exhaust. The aio rad on top would make sense to be exhaust but then I think I'd have to turn the rear fan into an intake. I could also flip my front fans and turn them into exhaust and my rad and vrm cooler be intakes. I can play with all of that but I'm still stuck on rad mounting.  there is supposedly a aio designed for a 5810. If you ordered that as an option the rad mounted right over the cpu and the case cover was vented so it blew right out the side. I've never been able to find any of these parts. I'm pretty sure it was reserved for the few people that said F it and spent 18,000 on a Dell workstation. And by few I'm not actually sure there was any.

And the other thing I've noticed. I only started playing with it since I know the max clock I can hit on the 1650. The cache ratio. Default it's 12 min 30 max. I can set it to whatever I want but it only goes up to 30. From what I've read it doesn't make big gains but it's recommended to be up near clock speed. Anyone have any idea what locks that? I can adjust voltage for it to whatever and it sticks.

And for anyone with money. I was reading that the xeon w-3175x is a 28 core unlocked cpu. Uses a lga 3647 socket. It's stupid big physically. You can get over 5ghz on 28 cores but you need 1000 watt psu just for the cpu. Draws close to 800 watts lmfao. But for anyone willing I think for about 700-800 bucks you could put one of those systems together and have something faster than anything else for probably the next 4 or 5 years. I've only seen test using LN2 I'd be interested to see a "normal" liquid cooling solution to run it as a daily driver.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 27, 2022)

Won't the AIO fit across the front of the case where the intake fans were? The old non BTX Dimensions with the pull through green ducts had the nice non PWM thermal control (self regulating) fans that can go any where as an exhaust and just need 12V. to run. That's where the Mangupta fan setup came from.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 27, 2022)

I hadn't considered putting the rad in place of the system fans in the front. However I think that aio takes 120mm fans. It would need to be 92mm to fit. Which puts me into custom loop stuff. I don't think I've seen an aio with a 92mm rad...but that does give me ideas. That would be very clean.


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## Retrorockit (Mar 30, 2022)

I looked at the manual for that. It looks like they put the external drive bays on top of the cooling fans. It used to be the HDD bays there which could be discarded for SSDs.
It looks like they went to that setup from the T3600 on. Basically when they went with the plug in PSU system. Also no air intakes there any more. I suppose removing the drive cage would leave a hole.
But no easy way forward on that case setup.


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## frankr2994 (Mar 31, 2022)

I'll tear it all back down in a bit and do some measurements. I got some stuff lined up ahead of it though. I'm sick of not having a computer while playing so I'm going to get my T1700 sff up and running with windows instead of pfsense which was planned for it. I still need to run cat 6a through the house before I'm ready for that anyways. On the 5810 I've more or less gave up on the idea of using 3.5hdds in it. I may take the drive cage out of it. Spot welded in but whatever.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 2, 2022)

Now that I understand that you may actually be stuck with 92mm fans there is an option. Delta made some GFB series 2 motor fans. GFB0912xxx should get you started. 103cfm but the noise is 61db due to the lower rpm range of 2 motor fans'


			http://s3.amazonaws.com/bobspdf/mn/nn/b1eb14f3-d41a-44be-95e8-69521ca28e0c.pdf
		

Or these which are probably 7000rpm fans.








						Pair of Nidec Beta V TA350DC M35291-35 46172 Fans - Dell XPS F7533 Shroud  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Pair of Nidec Beta V TA350DC M35291-35 46172 Fans - Dell XPS F7533 Shroud at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## frankr2994 (Apr 2, 2022)

I'm a little confused. I wasn't hunting for 92mm fans. The ones I have I think are adequate. I was only going over the scenerio of water cooling which would require a 92mm rad to make it clean. The vrm cooling with that dimension shroud I listed should work fine if I went that route. Or do you have some other idea I'm missing?


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## Retrorockit (Apr 3, 2022)

I just always max out my fans. The cooler options on BTX are kind of limited so it's an old habit of mine.
You might like what these guys make. twice as thick as other coolers, and Copper construction. 440W rating for this size.





						Hardware Labs |   Nemesis M184 GTX
					






					hardwarelabs.com
				



There seems to be a Gen2 version with 21fpi instead of 16fpi fin density. Probably better for dell fans if you can find one.





						Hardware Labs |   GTX M184
					






					hardwarelabs.com
				



Just switched the GTX from suffix to prefix to find a different version.


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## frankr2994 (Apr 3, 2022)

Good find. Price isn't that bad either. I wonder if I could do something like that with a couple of nuctua fans and set the fan speed in bios to 100 percent so I could run 2 fans from system fan headers a water pump from another and run my vrm fan off the cpu header. That way it wouldn't give any warnings anyways. I was starting to lean towards not doing this but that find got me back in it lol.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 3, 2022)

I bought a couple of their 80x160mm radiators to stack for 160mm to use my 150mm fan. But water doesn't go below ambient anyway. the BTX H2C Peltier water loop is BTX and at $20 pretty much takes the cake.


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## frankr2994 (Apr 9, 2022)

Well I just ordered an e5-1680v3. We'll have to see how she overclocks in about a week and a half. I am starting to get a bug up my ass on a dual cpu system. I think I might want a Dell t7810 with dual 2687w CPUs. Can't exactly overclock then but you can pull the micro code out of the bios to let them all core turbo.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 10, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> I am starting to get a bug up my ass


That must itch something fierce! 



frankr2994 said:


> I think I might want a Dell t7810 with dual 2687w CPUs.


That would work well.


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## frankr2994 (Apr 10, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> That must itch something fierce!
> 
> 
> That would work well.



That's a common saying at least in the Pittsburgh area....looks screwed up typed out lol. And for those dual 2687s I think I could only justify that on maybe a new Plex server. Our 4th gen i7 and gtx1650 super can run about 14 simultaneous transcodes now on gig internet. Maybe if fiber internet makes its way to 2.5gb in the near future something like that system with a 3080 could probably do 40 or more transcodes. Otherwise unless I come into some nice play money (doubtful) it's just talk.


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## frankr2994 (Apr 16, 2022)

Ok proud owner of a 1680v3 now. Stuck it in and doing some early testing. So far she runs hot lol. Don't know where my voltage is going to end up but right now I'm running 1.23v at 4.0ghz all core with hyperthreading. My cooler is keeping it under 80c but not by much. I'm going to creep up on the multiplier and see how high that voltage will let me go. Hopefully it's like my 1650 which until I was in the 4.7/4.8 range I didn't really have to step up on the voltage.

Calling it for tonight. I'm not sure what's going on and I think I need unclewebbs input. I can get 4.3ghz out of it. I'm using the powercut feature and it's reading out that I'm using like 10 watts so its working however I had to go down to 1.20v now it at least in a short run seems stable but if I raise the voltage I get an edp current limit and it clocks down. I thought getting the powercut feature working solves that....I tried 4.4ghz but it hit that limit and took it to 4.3 so I pulled the voltage down to 1.19v and it crashed...so I'll get some screenshots together tomorrow. Really hoping I didn't just find the vrm limit of my board or something.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 16, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> So far she runs hot lol.


Um..


frankr2994 said:


> right now I'm running 1.23v


..that's why.


frankr2994 said:


> 4.0ghz all core with hyperthreading.


You could likely get that at 1.1v. Maybe 1.12v. But 1.23v for that chip is crazy high..


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## frankr2994 (Apr 16, 2022)

From what I can find people take the E5-1660v3 up to about 1.4v. I can't find any real info on the 1680v3 because its been too expensive in the past for people to play with. It really should be the same chip just binned higher. Anyways I'll deal with cooling somehow someway its whatever. at 4.3GHZ dropping the voltage down to 1.19 crashed the system. so I'll need to push some at at. I now have a few screenshots here with what I have goin on and my settings @unclewebb if you wouldn't mind taking a look. I took these screenshots while Cinebench R23 was running multicore.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 16, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> 4.3GHZ dropping the voltage down to 1.19 crashed the system.


What happens at 4ghz?


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## frankr2994 (Apr 16, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> What happens at 4ghz?



I can volt down like you suggested. Temps are fine. I can run 4.0 all day. Seems I can run 4.3 all day. 4.4 isn't happening right now. I'll attack temps as soon as I see I "need" to. My goal is to run 4.6ghz+. If I can't I'm faced with selling this chip and going back to a 1650v3 or buying a x99 motherboard that will let me use it...


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## unclewebb (Apr 16, 2022)

@frankr2994 - Can you try using ThrottleStop 9.4.6? I have never had my hands on an E5-1680 v3 so I am not sure how well ThrottleStop supports these CPUs. With the new version, go into the TPL window and check the MMIO Lock box near the top right. This will do a few things. It might help unlock the maximum multiplier. With some more voltage, you might be able to use the 44 multiplier across all cores.

After you boot up, if you see that the BIOS has locked the PP0 Current Limit register to 208, you cannot change it to 400. This request will be ignored.





Looks like you are having fun. Post some more ThrottleStop screenshots so I can see what needs to be fixed to better support your CPU.

If TDP Level is not locked when you first boot up, I would suggest setting that to Level 0. You have a lot of the the Lock boxes checked so I am not sure if you or the bios has locked some of these settings.


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## frankr2994 (Apr 16, 2022)

@unclewebb 
Downloaded new TS version deleted config file and started over. Here are screenshots prior to any adjustments, adjustments made, and throttles that occur. 






















And forgot to check the MMI0 lock box. Just went in and tried to do it I cannot check it.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 16, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> I can volt down like you suggested. Temps are fine. I can run 4.0 all day. Seems I can run 4.3 all day. 4.4 isn't happening right now.


That might be silicon lottery going on. With what you described, you should be able 4.1ghz all-core at 1.2v, which is a very solid boost and won't cause a lot of heat.


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## frankr2994 (Apr 16, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> That might be silicon lottery going on. With what you described, you should be able 4.1ghz all-core at 1.2v, which is a very solid boost which won't cause a lot of heat.


And your right. I can. Temps stay low 70s. But thats only slightly better than I can get out of a 1650 which is 1/3 the cost. Money means more to me. I like to play with this stuff but if it's actually not "better" then it's wasted money. And actually with the clocks I'm getting a again much cheaper 1660 would do what I'm doing just fine. Those are about half the cost of a 1680.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 16, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> But thats only slightly better than I can get out of a 1650 which is 1/3 the cost.


Yes, but also fewer cores. the 1680V3 is an 8c/16t model whereas the 1650 is only 6c/12t model.


frankr2994 said:


> And actually with the clocks I'm getting a again much cheaper 1660 would do what I'm doing just fine. Those are about half the cost of a 1680.


That might be true, but silicon lottery is always at play. You might get a 1660V3 that can't clock as high. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. The point being you have a solid CPU. Set that 4.1ghz/1.2v and call it good and done. There is value in being happy with want you have.


----------



## frankr2994 (Apr 16, 2022)

Your very wise. However I will continue my quest on trying to melt/burn/explode something on my Dell before I call it quits lol. And besides your going against America's moto of never be happy with anything. There's always more and better.  All joking aside I do appreciate the info and I do understand that what I have going on is good enough. If I needed an 8 core daily for work I'd set it there and be thrilled. But since I don't really need this PC anymore it's just a play thing that gives me a reason to hide in my office for a bit.

@unclewebb 
Don't know if this is any help to you but I made a log file for a 10min Cinebench run.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Apr 16, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> However I will continue my quest on trying to melt/burn/explode something on my Dell before I call it quits lol.


That is just sad..


----------



## frankr2994 (Apr 17, 2022)

Ok well anyways I tried my hand at lapping for the second half of the day. I did not use my new 1680 for this though. Kinda hard to kill a heatsink so I did use my good one and an old e5-2640v3 cpu which I think id have to pay someone to take. So if it's shot oh well. I have it in a bowl of rice right now because I'm not confident that I didn't fill it with water. I watched a gamers Nexus video where he and king pin lapped a cpu. King pin put a dab of grease in the IHS vent hole. So that's what I did. Pretty sure it washed out. Other thing that screwed me up was keeping sandpaper attached to the glass. I used gorilla tape and all of it worked loose with the water. I may try lapping compound straight on the glass with another cpu to see how that goes. 









Ok testing today. Running prime 95 small fft core difference before 8c max temp 60c. Today core difference 6c max temp 59c. Now my fans don't ramp up until over 70c and obviously I can't make this chip really push anything but it's nice to see I didn't ruin anything and that there is some......small gain. I'm anxious to see how nice the tim is spread out when I pull it back apart. On either cpu it was very obvious with high pressure spots.


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## Retrorockit (Apr 17, 2022)

I just dry sand them with the 3m assortment that goes up to about #2500 I think.  Start with#600-800 to get it flat, then remove the scratches step by step down to #2500.
You should end up with a mirror finish. It's a strange thing to install your CPU and see the stucco on the ceiling reflected there.


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## frankr2994 (Apr 17, 2022)

Both the cpu and the heatsink took a while with 320 grit to get flat. Had to switch out the 320 when I did the cpu. The nickel finish was hard and wore the sandpaper out. I finished with 2000 grit. It was obvious to me that I could have spent more time but as it was it took me about an hour and a half to do both. Which I found ridiculous. Like I said I'm going to practice some more with some old core 2s I have lying around. When I find a process I like I'll do the 1680 and touch the heatsink up to give them both a mirror finish.


----------



## Retrorockit (Apr 17, 2022)

The sandpaper strips can be taped to a mirror ( I use a long dressing mirror)  on the workbench. I tape them down in a progression, and just move along from strip to strip. If you start with too coarse it's a bunch of work to remove the deep scratches, too fine and it takes extra time. I would start with #800, and if it's fairly flat IHS go from there. If there are high spots then #600 just for those. Don't scratch up the whole CPU over some high spots. You don't have to take it down to bare copper, it can be flat with some nickel still there in places. Some people think you're trying to make it thinner. That's not the object of it at all. Flat metal to metal contact for the thinnest TIM layer possible.


----------



## frankr2994 (Apr 17, 2022)

I have an old all glass table out in the garage. Not being used anymore. I used a table leg thats approximately 40"x14" and about 5/8" thick. I taped all my paper down like you said and just moved down the line. Like I said the water ruined the connection of the gorilla tape to the glass so that made it a pain.


----------



## Retrorockit (Apr 17, 2022)

I MESSED around with water too. Just gave it up completely.
I found 3*C with a polished finish, but I was pushing 1.5875V. through a smaller LGA775 IHS.


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## unclewebb (Apr 17, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> Don't know if this is any help


The log file helps a lot. It shows what is going on.


```
DATE       TIME    MULTI   C0%   CKMOD  BAT_mW  TEMP    VID   POWER
2022-04-16  18:07:38  43.00  100.0  100.0       0   72   1.2241    7.2   EDP
2022-04-16  18:07:39  43.00  100.0  100.0       0   73   1.2241    7.2   EDP
2022-04-16  18:07:40  43.00  100.0  100.0       0   73   1.2241    7.2   EDP
2022-04-16  18:07:41  43.05   92.6  100.0       0   58   1.2241    7.2
2022-04-16  18:07:42  44.00   45.9  100.0       0   69   1.2241    7.7
2022-04-16  18:07:43  44.00   96.1  100.0       0   60   1.2241    7.4
2022-04-16  18:07:44  43.02   98.6  100.0       0   71   1.2241    7.2   EDP
2022-04-16  18:07:45  43.00  100.0  100.0       0   71   1.2241    7.2   EDP
2022-04-16  18:07:46  43.00  100.0  100.0       0   71   1.2241    7.2   EDP
```

When running Cinebench, after each scene is finished, the load on the CPU (C0%) briefly drops as Cinebench restarts and gets ready to draw the scene again. When the load drops, EDP throttling stops and the CPU multiplier goes back up to full speed, 44.00. When full load resumes, EDP throttling resumes and the CPU is once again limited to the 43.00 multiplier.

ThrottleStop shows that the PP0 Current Limit is locked to 208 by the BIOS. Without a modified BIOS that unlocks the current limit, I think you have hit the wall. Try running a less demanding benchmark test like 2, 4 or 8 threads of the TS Bench test. At some point, less load should result in less EDP throttling and the CPU should run consistently at full speed. ThrottleStop might report a steady 44.00 multiplier during a light load test.


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## frankr2994 (Apr 17, 2022)

@unclewebb 
I was hoping that powercut got past that 208 limitation. I guess not. Oh well. Once again greatly appreciate the input. I'm getting my laptop back today that has all my bios tools on it. My parents have had it as a loaner for a while. I have an idea on how I'm going to fix this. And yes I was able to run 4.4 and 4.5 at a lighter load. 4.6 wasn't happening as most any load hit the throttle. Voltage had to be in the 1.27 range for that speed.


----------



## unclewebb (Apr 17, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> And forgot to check the MMI0 lock box. Just went in and tried to do it I cannot check it.


Just to confirm. When you try to click on the MMIO Lock box, does nothing happen? Does a check mark not show up in that box? It will probably not solve your throttling problem but you should be able to check that box.







frankr2994 said:


> PowerCut


PowerCut reduces the reported power consumption. I guess it does not do anything to change the reported current consumption. It definitely seems to be the locked current register that is holding you back.

Not sure if you can mod the bios. MSR 0x601 - bit[31] is the lock bit. That bit needs to be cleared so you can increase the current limit.


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## frankr2994 (Apr 17, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> Just to confirm. When you try to click on the MMIO Lock box, does nothing happen? Does a check mark not show up in that box? It will probably not solve your throttling problem but you should be able to check that box.
> 
> View attachment 243892



A check mark does not show up so correct nothing happens. 

I did test another scenario. Turbo power limits. I can set them to whatever and hwinfo shows that they have indeed been changed. However I get a throttle even at the stock 3.8ghz turbo speed. Powercut is the only way past that which you've seen where that throttles. But touching anything in turbo power limits accomplishes absolutely nothing. I can leave them alone and use power cut to achieve the same results.



unclewebb said:


> Not sure if you can mod the bios. MSR 0x601 - bit[31] is the lock bit. That bit needs to be cleared so you can increase the current limit.



I have not fully tested as in installed this mod but with my bios tools I can change things marked as default using a hex editor. It took some practice but after a while I got it to show up correctly I'm amibcp. If I can set default to a different value (almost everything has multiple values in the raw bios) I should be able to go up to another limit. It will also be locked but should... should be better.


----------



## unclewebb (Apr 17, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> hwinfo shows


Some computers use a third set of turbo power limits that are controlled by an embedded controller (EC). ThrottleStop does not have access to these power limits and HWiNFO does not report what they are set to. Increasing the MSR or MMIO power limits will be ignored if the EC power limits are set lower. The lowest set power limit wins control of the CPU. PowerCut is a good trick to keep power consumption low. TS 9.4.6 finally saves the PowerCut status so it should automatically re-enable PowerCut during a sleep resume cycle. It waits for 10 or 15 seconds so the CPU has a chance to settle down before toggling the VCCIN lock bit. If you have the FIVR window open, you should be able to watch this happen after you resume. Interesting to see the PowerCut feature still being used. Someone with a low power 5th Gen Broadwell U series CPU recently contacted me to tell me about his success story while using PowerCut.  



frankr2994 said:


> A check mark does not show up so correct nothing happens.


Thanks for the info. I had a look at the code but I cannot see anything obvious why you are being prevented from checking that box. I will look some more but even if you could check this box, it will not be able to help. You need to find a way to unlock the MSR current limit or set it higher. 

This register is in units of 1/8 Amps. 208 Amps means that register should contain 1664 which converted to hex is 0x680. Find that hex number and change it to 0x980 and that should give you some more headroom.


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## frankr2994 (Apr 17, 2022)

@unclewebb 
Much appreciated. Your an awesome person. Just fyi I know that playing with this old stuff isn't really why you have this software....or even desktops in general but I'd gladly let you remote into any system I have and play as long as you'd like. Just let me know and I'll pop another drive in and make it a barebones fresh install.

Ok got my laptop back and my files. So I pulled one of my dump bins up in amibcp and found the PP0 current. Now I can't make changes here I should just be able to see if they have been made here after I'm done. When I select the current setting it lets me know on the bottom that if set to 2048 that the value is unlimited. can you tell me what the hex value is for 2048? Since I've started this I cannot figure out what hex means what. I find a word or number somewhere else that I can see what the hex value is for it and use it to copy over to make changes. 



Ok So I won't be able to test this for a couple days. I have alot to get hooked up again to start programming a modded bios but I think I made the change I needed. I extracted the module from the bios. Opened it up in IFR extractor to read the text and get the hex values, opened it up in a hex editor and searched said values and made the changes to hex, saved the file and opened the new file in IFR extractor. here is the result. 





How Dell has ami make this bios is beyond me. Very difficult. The only area in the bios I can find current is there. I changed it like I shown and it didn't show up different using amibcp. So now I'm looking at the beginning of that code that says "suppress if" what it's referring to is current manual override above it. I'm hoping after I change the hex for that it will show up different. What I don't understand is if that part of the code gets suppressed where the hell do they get a value for the current limit otherwise? I'd love to find that "hard code" area of the bios.  I have a feeling that the end of the bios marked with pages and pages just saying Intel reference over and over is encrypted code that overrides all the changes I'm trying.


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## unclewebb (Apr 18, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> I'd gladly let you remote into any system I have


I do not think I need to do that at the moment but I definitely appreciate the offer.   

My bios mod skills are zero. Just looking at your screenshot I know I could have a lot of fun in there but I have never done any bios mods to my own computers. I will just tell you what I know about that register.

There used to be a rumor that I believe Intel might have started that setting that register to 2048 (2048 / 8 = 256 Amps ) would tell the CPU to ignore this limit. I have never found that to be true. It might be true on some Intel processors but on my 10th Gen, if I set that register to 256 A, I still get lots and lots of EDP throttling when running 10 threads of Prime95 Small FFTs.






On newer CPUs, Intel changed the name of this register from the PP0 Current Limit to Power Limit 4. It is the same register, in the same location with the same layout. Other than the new name, I do not think this register has changed all that much. 

For 2nd Gen and newer CPUs, the maximum number this register can hold is 8191. Divide that by 8 and that is equivalent to 1023.875 A. If I use ThrottleStop to set this register to the maximum value (1023) or if I use ThrottleStop to set this register to 0, either way, the EDP OTHER throttling immediately stops. A setting of 0 tells the CPU to ignore this register. 

I originally suggested changing this from 0x680 to 0x980 because I thought that would be enough to give you some more headroom before throttling. You might have to go higher to eliminate all EDP throttling or it might be best to set this to 0. If you can remove the PRIMARY_PLANE_CURRENT_CONFIG_CONTROL [LOCK], that would allow you to use ThrottleStop to adjust the PP0 Current Limit. If it is set to 0 and the bios locks it, I do not think you will have to worry about this setting holding you back. 

Hopefully you can try a few different settings without creating a brick. I am looking forward to your results.


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## lexluthermiester (Apr 18, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> My bios mod skills are zero.


I'd bet real money that you'd take to it like a fish to water.


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## frankr2994 (Apr 19, 2022)

I have a friend that's a SQL developer. Most other languages he doesn't know he still seems to be able to help me out. I'm not a programmer/developer and just have a few recent college courses which well let's just say I'm not very knowledgeable in it.  So ya unclewebb with your obvious knowledge in programming and knowing the inner workings of a computer (most of my developer friends do not) you'd be great at it. Unfortunately it seems the main market for it is getting around admin password set bios on a used computer someone bought. I haven't found anyone to help me in understanding exactly what I'm trying to do with this bios but this just goes into the reason I'm doing it. It's interesting to me and I'm having fun. Eventually I'll figure something out and maybe 4 people will care that I did lol.


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## dylricho (Apr 30, 2022)

@unclewebb 

Hi buddy, I am working on a project that will extensively use LGA775 (and Socket P) processors (mostly Core2 but some newer NetBurst models as well). Can Throttlestop modify the multiplier of locked CPUs so that they could all be set to the same frequency?

For clarity, I don't wish to overclock, but instead reduce the multiplier to reach a nice round frequency, such as 2.00 GHz, and I'd rather not alter the FSB through BIOS overclocking (or underclocking in this case) as that can alter the results.

I've seen Throttlestop work perfectly for my needs with my Socket P system, but I was wondering whether I could do the same with LGA775 processors as well?


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## unclewebb (Apr 30, 2022)

dylricho said:


> I could do the same with LGA775 processors as well


I do not have access to any older hardware for testing purposes. ThrottleStop should still work OK on all Core 2 Duo and newer CPUs. 
It does not support the older Pentium 4 based CPUs.


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## dylricho (Apr 30, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> I do not have access to any older hardware for testing purposes. ThrottleStop should still work OK on all Core 2 Duo and newer CPUs.
> It does not support the older Pentium 4 based CPUs.



Thank you, my friend. 

I'm assuming the CPU merely needs to support EIST for it to work, which would make sense.

If anyone here has an LGA775 system lying around that would be willing to test it out for me, I would be most grateful.


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## unclewebb (Apr 30, 2022)

dylricho said:


> LGA775 system


A big chunk of ThrottleStop was developed on my Core 2 Quad, QX9650 while using Windows Vista. These old Quads were actually 2 completely separate Core 2 Duos set side by side under the heat spreader. ThrottleStop has a special feature so you can run each Core 2 Duo within the Quad at a unique speed. ThrottleStop definitely works with this old stuff. 

If you are using an older operating system, you might need to find an older version of ThrottleStop that is compatible. The most recent versions of ThrottleStop no longer work on older operating systems. TechPowerUp has a good selection of older versions of ThrottleStop available for download.


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## Dell Percision T3600 (Sep 25, 2022)

Hello I think I am a bit late to the thread but I own a Dell Percision T3600 with a Intel Xeon E5-1607 0 is this configuration tested with throttlestop yet?


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## unclewebb (Sep 25, 2022)

Dell Percision T3600 said:


> Xeon E5-1607


I think these CPUs are locked down by intel. Post some ThrottleStop screenshots to jog my memory. Let's have a look at the main window, the TPL and TRL windows.


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## Toothless (Sep 25, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> I think these CPUs are locked down by intel. Post some ThrottleStop screenshots to jog my memory. Let's have a look at the main window, the TPL and TRL windows.


You're correct, they don't even have a turbo clock. Plus being on a T3600 it's most likely not gonna go anywhere.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 25, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> I think these CPUs are locked down by intel. Post some ThrottleStop screenshots to jog my memory. Let's have a look at the main window, the TPL and TRL windows.


TS can still lock the all-core boost clock can't it?



Toothless said:


> they don't even have a turbo clock


Are you sure?
EDIT: Yup, you're right, that model has no boost clocks.



Dell Percision T3600 said:


> Hello I think I am a bit late to the thread but I own a Dell Percision T3600 with a Intel Xeon E5-1607 0 is this configuration tested with throttlestop yet?


First off, welcome to TPU! That CPU you've got is a bottom tier model. You should get an E5-1650 and give yourself a serious upgrade. Also, ThrottleStop can push the performance of a 1650 even higher. 
Examples;








						Intel Xeon E5-1650 3.20GHz 6 Core 12MB Cache CPU P/N:SR0KZ Tested  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Intel Xeon E5-1650 3.20GHz 6 Core 12MB Cache CPU P/N:SR0KZ Tested at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				











						Intel Xeon E5-1650 SR0KZ 3.2GHz 6 Core LGA 2011 CPU Processor *km  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Intel Xeon E5-1650 SR0KZ 3.2GHz 6 Core LGA 2011 CPU Processor *km at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				



Both $15USD and both from sellers that have excellent feedback.

Both are very inexpensive. 2 more cores, running 200mhz faster and with an 3.8ghz boost over your existing CPU.


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## frankr2994 (Sep 25, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> You should get an E5-1650 and give yourself a serious upgrade. Also, ThrottleStop can push the performance of a 1650 even higher.
> 
> 2 more cores, running 200mhz faster and with an 3.8ghz boost over your existing CPU.



And you should be able to get a heatsink from a T7810 which is actually very well designed, large and has a shroud to help cool the vrm. If you want to clock a 1650 up a ways it will need more cooling. Beats the hell out of modifying a bunch of stuff to make something else work as it should just bolt right down. Also very cheap.

Also I have never played with 1st gen e5 CPUs but with a t3610 I played with an e5-1620 v2. And I believe all throttle stop can do is get the limit reasons removed. This can help performance..... slightly. And obviously I know that with a 1650v3 you can clock the hell out of them providing you can keep it cool. I'm very curious how well a v1 can be clocked.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 25, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> And you should be able to get a heatsink from a T7810 which is actually very well designed, large and has a shroud to help cool the vrm. If you want to clock a 1650 up a ways it will need more cooling. Beats the hell out of modifying a bunch of stuff to make something else work as it should just bolt right down. Also very cheap.


The heatsink they have currently will be fine. Both parts are 130W TDP rated parts.


			https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/64619/intel-xeon-processor-e51607-10m-cache-3-00-ghz-0-0-gts-intel-qpi/specifications.html
		



			https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/64601/intel-xeon-processor-e51650-12m-cache-3-20-ghz-0-0-gts-intel-qpi/specifications.html
		


This is the heatsink the vast majority(if not all) of the T3600's came with;








						Dell 01TD00 1TD00 Precision T3600 T5600 T7600 CPU Heatsink 37-5  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Dell 01TD00 1TD00 Precision T3600 T5600 T7600 CPU Heatsink 37-5 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## unclewebb (Sep 25, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> TS can still lock the all-core boost clock can't it?


If the 1607 does not use any turbo boost then there is nothing for ThrottleStop to lock. 

Hopefully @Dell Percision T3600 can post a few ThrottleStop screenshots just to see what options are available. Probably not much.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 26, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> If the 1607 does not use any turbo boost then there is nothing for ThrottleStop to lock.


As mentioned above, yeah, I saw that. Had to look up the specs to remind myself that model was one of the few V1 Socket2011 Xeons that did not have boost.



unclewebb said:


> Probably not much.


That would be my guess, which is why I posted a few examples of an easy, inexpensive but solid upgrade for their system.


----------



## (00) (Sep 26, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> There is a learning curve with doing this and I will do what I can here to help with that.
> 1- Throttlestop sometimes won't save setting unless you open the program twice.


Yup, thanks for the *save twice* tip.

(00)


----------



## frankr2994 (Sep 27, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> The heatsink they have currently will be fine. Both parts are 130W TDP rated parts.
> 
> 
> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/64619/intel-xeon-processor-e51607-10m-cache-3-00-ghz-0-0-gts-intel-qpi/specifications.html
> ...



Sorry maybe it's fine. I just know since I still have my kids Dell running an e5-1650v3 CPU with a stock heatsink that I can run 4.0ghz but past that thermals run away. In my machine with the other heatsink I could run that CPU at 4.7ghz. 

Side note for new comers to dells and throttle stop. Remember you may have to do a sleep/resume cycle prior to opening TS to let it do pretty much anything. Also playing with the voltages to get the powercut to work. Then your just left with a current limit in the bios that I can't defeat lol.


----------



## Fortis91 (Nov 7, 2022)

Not sure if this thread is still alive but here goes. I resurrected this T3500 of mine with a 750w psu, an ssd, 2 m.2 drives,  24gigs of 1333mhz ram, a 3060ti and a w3690. Mods I’ve done so far and plan to do in the near future are adding a fan to the cpu heat sink, adding a fan to the northbridge and I slapped an m.2 heat sink on the VRMs. I may or may not opt for a thicker heat sink tho. Ultimately I might just watercool the whole thing as a project if I wake up bored one day. 

Using throttlestop I immediately went for a 4.1ghz overclock, it seemed stable at first but once I booted up a game it would crash after a couple minutes. So after stress testing with p95 and gaming for hours it appears to be stable at 4ghz with a 150 TDP. Any lower and it would start to throttle during p95 stress testing. Temp maxes out at 69 degrees, HT disabled.

My only problem right now is that CPUz, HW monitor, task manager and throttle stop shows the 4ghz overclock but msi afterburner doesn’t. It show 3600mhz. So I guess the question is, any idea why and how to fix it? And also is there anyway to get a higher OC that’s stable with such limited access?


----------



## unclewebb (Nov 7, 2022)

@Fortis91
Changing the CPU speed while in Windows on these old CPUs screws up some monitoring software. You will have to ignore Afterburner. Go by what ThrottleStop and CPU-Z are telling you.

Without any CPU voltage control possible, 4 GHz is the typical stable limit for the W3680 and W3690.

My W3680 was TS Bench stable at 4133 MHz but would crash in more demanding tests at that speed.









						Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs
					

Yes, but not on my mainboard :D Thats the problem. Otherwise the x5650 would be enough.   That was general information to help others who may want to try this. They are socket 1156 CPUs. When I first posted that I wasn't aware the i5 655K was 2 core so I added that info as a clarification.  The...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Retrorockit (Nov 7, 2022)

Your photo doesn't show the HDD tray installed. It provides a ducting from the system fan to the CPU cooler. Something to cover the gap there might help.
 The 90x38mm Nidec M35105-57 fan was used to cool old 130W Pentium D CPUs. It's not PWM so 12V. will make it run. It speeds up when the air gets hot off of the CPU heatsink.
Mangupta used one in this thread for cooling in India at 40*C ambient. Maybe you can squeeze a little more out of it.
Dell fan controllers are known for too little too late. HWInfo64 can bump up the fan speed profile some.
 The thread is still alive except not too many people seem to be doing this anymore.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 7, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> The thread is still alive except not too many people seem to be doing this anymore.


What? Speak for yourself. I use TS all the time.


----------



## Retrorockit (Nov 8, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> What? Speak for yourself. I use TS all the time.


I was thinking of new users coming here to try this out. Maybe they  get what they need just reading what's already here.


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## frankr2994 (Nov 8, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> I was thinking of new users coming here to try this out. Maybe they  get what they need just reading what's already here.



There is a site called greenpcgamers that is just about building old workstations. I thought it would take off and I wanted to contribute. I've come to realize very few of us care. Sorta sucks because there are a lot of these old things going to waste and they are still very much useful by today's standards. On that it doesn't matter what I need to do on my PC. I boot it up and get TS going. Might as well have a bunch of fast cores to respond to someone's email lol.


----------



## SamirD (Nov 8, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> There is a site called greenpcgamers that is just about building old workstations. I thought it would take off and I wanted to contribute. I've come to realize very few of us care. Sorta sucks because there are a lot of these old things going to waste and they are still very much useful by today's standards. On that it doesn't matter what I need to do on my PC. I boot it up and get TS going. Might as well have a bunch of fast cores to respond to someone's email lol.


Yeah I've contributed to that site as well.  The value in these workstations is sometimes impossible to beat because of things like cheap ecc reg ram, great factory power supplies and lots of ports and slots for beefy setups.  But like you said, doesn't seem like the mainstream cares--and actually that's a bit of a good thing because otherwise the prices would increase due to demand.


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## solarmystic (Nov 21, 2022)

Hello, i'm not sure if my post belongs here, but i've a 12th gen i7-12700KF that i've just upgraded to on a rather decent B660M motherboard (it had a 12400F previously and i got the 12700KF for cheap, sealed).

I was wondering whether i can do all core turbo overclocking using Throttlestop since it seems to be unlocked and unlimited in the software? Would TS be able to overwrite the B660M limitations when it comes to any form of overclocking?


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## frankr2994 (Nov 22, 2022)

solarmystic said:


> Hello, i'm not sure if my post belongs here, but i've a 12th gen i7-12700KF that i've just upgraded to on a rather decent B660M motherboard (it had a 12400F previously and i got the 12700KF for cheap, sealed).
> 
> I was wondering whether i can do all core turbo overclocking using Throttlestop since it seems to be unlocked and unlimited in the software? Would TS be able to overwrite the B660M limitations when it comes to any form of overclocking?
> 
> View attachment 271172



I don't see anything locked up so I'd give it a go. Bios can still have current limits locked down so you may only be able to get so much out of it.  Unclewebb the software creator will probably chime in. I don't think anyone has asked any questions on this thread anyways about 12th gen Intel. I have an i7-12700k on z690 motherboard still hanging out here if you need me to try anything for confirmation.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Nov 22, 2022)

solarmystic said:


> Hello, i'm not sure if my post belongs here


Yup, you're in the right place!



solarmystic said:


> I was wondering whether i can do all core turbo overclocking using Throttlestop since it seems to be unlocked and unlimited in the software?


For the CPU, the answer is yes.


solarmystic said:


> Would TS be able to overwrite the B660M limitations when it comes to any form of overclocking?


This I'm not sure about.

For that combination, I beleive you will need to disable SpeedStep and C1E to enable MAX all-core OC. I could be wrong. @unclewebb What's your say?

You're also going to have to tweak and experiment with the CPU core voltages and bump them up as you increase the multiplier and all-core TB setting.


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## frankr2994 (Nov 27, 2022)

Hey looking for anyone that has any experience with vapor chambers. I know primarily they are used in blade severs where there is just an insane amount of case fans blowing across. What I was curious about was using one in between the CPU and whatever heatsink. I found an article that cooler master was going to build just this. In their design the heatpipes for the fins where directly attached to a vapor chamber. It doesn't look like they actually ever went through with the design. In my proposed idea I would buy a vapor chamber for my socket, separate it from whatever small finned section it has and use longer hold down screws to sandwich it between the CPU and heatsink. Reason being is I've seen on my system and much more expensive systems that air coolers reach a limit on how much a fan can help before thermals run away. When I crank the fan the whole way up and watch temps creep into the 90s I'm not feeling hot air come out of the cooler. My thoughts are is that the vapor chamber will pickup all the heat out of that small area on the CPU and then give a much larger area for heatpipes to carry it off. Seems cheap enough to give it a try anyways. Here is a link to what I was thinking about buying .








						Dynatron T318 Vapor Chamber CPU Cooler For Intel Narrow Socket 2011 1U Server  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Dynatron T318 Vapor Chamber CPU Cooler For Intel Narrow Socket 2011 1U Server at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## Retrorockit (Nov 27, 2022)

Anything that you put between your CPU, and cooler will have some thermal resistance. I think they're used as a superspreader under low profile copper heatsinks where there is no room.
Here are my thoughts on heatpipes and how they work.
Most of them have water in them. They have a vacuum also to lower the boiling point of the water to a useful range. The phase change form water to vapor absorbs a large amount of heat. The water vapor transfers the heat at the speed of sound (so I've heard). At some point the heatpipe will be saturated with heat and will dry out. The water will stop condensing back to liquid.
One other fluid I've heard of being used is Acetone. It may not need a vacuum. I think the fill was almost 100%. I don't recall if there was ana dvantege except it doesn't freeze.
I'm guessing that's 4 channel RAM, so you can't leave som empty sockets to get a wider fan and cooler in there. maybe some low profile ram might find some room.
Are you running an 80mm fan/cooler or are you up to 90mm already?


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## frankr2994 (Nov 27, 2022)

90mm but it's really a non issue...I'm just sitting here thinking out loud. I've heard of acetone and ammonia to be fluid in heatpipes. Low evaporation temperatures. I suspect vacuum for no air but actual contents under pressure. Similar to any actual ac system

I also understand thermal resistance going up. However we know that that die under the ihs is much smaller and that is what is making the heat. My argument is getting that actually spread out for some of these big coolers to actually pick it up.

And honestly I'd probably test this on something like the i7-12700k I have sitting downstairs for someone that's never going to have me go set it up lol. I have a PC case sized air cooler on it that does awesome at stock clocks. I can out run it through with overclocks. I really just hate how easy it is to get to a point where you "need" water cooling.


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## Retrorockit (Nov 28, 2022)

I recall we determined that your Xeon has a soldered heat spreader, so no gain to be had there. But most thermal compound conducts in the 12W/mk area and some of the high end liquid metals claim up to 80W/mk.








						Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra vs. Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut - HWCooling.net
					

Description and resultsCoollaboratory is well known among the hardware enthusiasts, mainly thanks to its liquid metals. The model with higher thermal conductivity, Liquid Ultra, is commonly preferred with high power consumption chips since their default compounds are usually of lower quality. To...




					www.hwcooling.net
				



But if the  heatsink is already overloaded I'm not sure it will help.
I think the vapor chamber would only help if it was going to a larger heatsink with more heatpipes..
How far have you gone with the more airflow concept .Nidec M35291-35 can be found cheap. 2.3A should equal some airflow.


----------



## YHWH-Rules (Dec 6, 2022)

Will it work on a desktop with a non k series cpu? I have a Dell optiplex that im upgrading so can you do that on there? Also my Temps are very good on my pc.


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## frankr2994 (Dec 6, 2022)

YHWH-Rules said:


> Will it work on a desktop with a non k series cpu? I have a Dell optiplex that im upgrading so can you do that on there? Also my Temps are very good on my pc.


It only does something on a non overclockable CPU if something is needed. If your cpu is power or thermal throttling then this software can help. If it's working just fine then it can't do anything.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 6, 2022)

YHWH-Rules said:


> Will it work on a desktop with a non k series cpu? I have a Dell optiplex that im upgrading so can you do that on there? Also my Temps are very good on my pc.


As long as you upgrade to a "K" series CPU, yes. Otherwise the only thing you might be able to do is lock the CPU to it's all-core turbo.


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## frankr2994 (Dec 6, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> Otherwise the only thing you might be able to do is lock the CPU to it's all-core turbo.


Can you actually do that? I certainly haven't seen it all but I've loaded TS on most of the hardware Ive had through the door. Just haven't seen or maybe noticed being able to do that.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 6, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> Can you actually do that? I certainly haven't seen it all but I've loaded TS on most of the hardware Ive had through the door. Just haven't seen or maybe noticed being able to do that.


On older platforms it works. I'm not 100% on newer ones. I want to say a solid "Likely".


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## frankr2994 (Dec 6, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> On older platforms it works. I'm not 100% on newer ones. I want to say a solid "Likely".


I have a core 2 duo downstairs with a motherboard in my pile. I've never lit it up and don't know why I have it. Maybe I'll give it a shot lol


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 6, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> I have a core 2 duo downstairs with a motherboard in my pile. I've never lit it up and don't know why I have it. Maybe I'll give it a shot lol


I don't think that'll work. The Core CPU line up was multiplier locked and didn't have any boost features.


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## unclewebb (Dec 6, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> The Core CPU line up was multiplier locked


The Core 2 Duo Extreme processors had an unlocked multiplier. These came in desktop and mobile versions. ThrottleStop still supports the older Core 2 Duo based CPUs. I helped a guy just the other day overclock his Core 2 Duo X9000 Extreme mobile CPU up to 4000 MHz by simply increasing the multiplier.



lexluthermiester said:


> didn't have any boost features


The Core 2 Duo mobile CPUs had a boost feature called Intel Dynamic Acceleration. This works exactly the same as Turbo Boost does on the modern Core i processors. IDA was not very sexy so Intel changed the name to Turbo Boost when Core i was introduced.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 6, 2022)

The QX9650 is the best unlocked Coree2Duo 45nm with SSE4 instruction set.. The QX6850 would be next but is 65nm SSE3 for older MB that support 333fsb.. Thw QX6800 SLACP is the good stepping (G0) of the 266fsb 65nm chips.Some old P4 era boards can run this with a BIOS update I wouldn't bother with the others that have older steppings. They run hot.
There is an oddball E6500K in LGA775. Small cache, 2 cores, and missing SSE4 instruction set. You have to find one in China, they were only sold there. At 65W might run in some low end chipsets.
But so will a tapemodded E7600. if you have one of the low end QX chips it's possible to OC just 2 cores for a retro gaming rig. Text edit TS  for Core 0,1.
These would be the X6800 2 core, QX6700, and QX6800 SL9UK (B3) They all have much lower themal limits, and heat up sooner too. The QX6850 can sometimes be found for less than the SLACP.
TS will overclock these on locked BIOS Dells etc. There's a link in my sig. for a SLACP in a P4 era Dell.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 6, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> The Core 2 Duo Extreme processors had an unlocked multiplier.


Oh that's right, they did. My bad..



unclewebb said:


> The Core 2 Duo mobile CPUs had a boost feature called Intel Dynamic Acceleration. This works exactly the same as Turbo Boost does on the modern Core i processors. IDA was not very sexy so Intel changed the name to Turbo Boost when Core i was introduced.


Forgot about that one too. Back then it wasn't a very useful feature.


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## KLiKzg (Dec 8, 2022)

KLiKzg said:


> Thanks, though the item cams with all parts in: https://edigital.hr/univerzalni-int...r-hyper-t20-ventilator-rr-t20-20fk-r1-p636037


Guys, do NOT use this Hyper T20 cooler. Apparently they are prone to failure, after 2 years of working!


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 9, 2022)

KLiKzg said:


> Guys, do NOT use this Hyper T20 cooler. Apparently they are prone to failure, after 2 years of working!


The fan or the cooler itself? If it's just the fan, replace it. Even good fans are inexpensive.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 9, 2022)

That cooler with just 2 heatpipes is a non starter for me anyway. The un-polished base plate says cheap,cheap,cheap. I wouldn't expect the fan to be much good at that level either.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 10, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> That cooler with just 2 heatpipes is a non starter for me anyway. The un-polished base plate says cheap,cheap,cheap. I wouldn't expect the fan to be much good at that level either.


They're more effective than you might think. But yes, those kinds of heatsinks are strictly budget offerings. They're not meant for anything high-end or for OCing.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 10, 2022)

Scythe Ninja Plus Heatsink Fan Socket LGA 775  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Scythe Ninja Plus Heatsink Fan Socket LGA 775 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				



How much did they save?


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 10, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> Scythe Ninja Plus Heatsink Fan Socket LGA 775  | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Scythe Ninja Plus Heatsink Fan Socket LGA 775 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> ...


They don't cost $35. They're more like $10.


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## Retrorockit (Dec 10, 2022)

The only thing that costs more than doing it right the first time is doing it right the 2nd time.


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## KLiKzg (Dec 10, 2022)

Retrorockit said:


> That cooler with just 2 heatpipes is a non starter for me anyway. The un-polished base plate says cheap,cheap,cheap. I wouldn't expect the fan to be much good at that level either.


Well, you might be very wrong...as it is strangely very efficient, Like 60~70°C on a full load of 105W CPU.  



lexluthermiester said:


> The fan or the cooler itself? If it's just the fan, replace it. Even good fans are inexpensive.


It is the bracket, check picture!


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## Retrorockit (Dec 10, 2022)

I usually start at 130W and overclock from there. Most of the unlocked CPUs  in this thread start out at that level. So the need for 200-250W coolers is normal for me.
But I run Dell stuff so aftermarket coolers aren't really on my radar very much. Coolermaster is known for bang for the buck products. Until they actually go bang.
 Of course 105W may be a high end CPU in the modern era.


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## frankr2994 (Dec 10, 2022)

Hey I'll ask before I actually do it. I'm now an admin on a discord for a site that I have mentioned on here before. My short time there I already got a few people overclocking with TS. Didn't know if I could put the discord invite up on here or not? I don't think it's really like advertising or anything since no one is getting paid lol.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 11, 2022)

KLiKzg said:


> It is the bracket, check picture!


I didn't want to assume that was the only problem. You can get replacement brackets on Amazon or Ebay for cheap.


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## YHWH-Rules (Dec 12, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> As long as you upgrade to a "K" series CPU, yes. Otherwise the only thing you might be able to do is lock the CPU to it's all-core turbo.


Is there some setting for Overclocking if you have a k cpu?


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 12, 2022)

YHWH-Rules said:


> Is there some setting for Overclocking if you have a k cpu?


"K" series CPU's are much more flexible and TS should allow for a lot of fun! Though to be fair, if you have the right motherboard and utility from the board maker, you likely don't need TS. If you don't have such a board then TS is your ticket!


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## KLiKzg (Dec 18, 2022)

lexluthermiester said:


> I didn't want to assume that was the only problem. You can get replacement brackets on Amazon or Ebay for cheap.


No, you can't for T20...if you think you can, show me.

Also AC gives you FREE replacement bracket, if sthg like this happens.


----------



## frankr2994 (Dec 18, 2022)

KLiKzg said:


> No, you can't for T20...if you think you can, show me.
> 
> Also AC gives you FREE replacement bracket, if sthg like this happens.


What are you using this cooler for anyways? I'm in the 200watt area overclocking a xeon. My 60ish dollar modded supermicro cooler keeps me in the 70c range stressed.


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## KLiKzg (Dec 19, 2022)

frankr2994 said:


> What are you using this cooler for anyways? I'm in the 200watt area overclocking a xeon. My 60ish dollar modded supermicro cooler keeps me in the 70c range stressed.


I bought them for some old X3360, but use them on Linux based Q9550S instead. 

Also, I do not trust Supermicro, as several MBO failed on me. Those shit are not in my systems anymore! Only Intel's.


----------



## Retrorockit (Dec 20, 2022)

I'm not going to flame you for LGA775. I like them and still use them. But the starting point for TS Overclocking is a MB that supports 130W CPUs with unlocked multipliers.
Basically QX9650 for the 45nm architecture and SSE4 instruction set. Many locked OEM LGA775 MB have a 95W CPU limit.
I would suggest a Dell T3400 workstation with the T9303 heatpipe cooler. They'll hit 4.15GHz at userbenchmark.com  It's BTX so you're completely immune to Coolermaster issues.
TS is a Windows program. So Linux rules this out also. You can't even undervolt your Q9505S which would be kind of fun to do.
Mine is 1.1000V.=46*C on TSbench 100% load. My 150x50mm Delta fan doesn't even speed up for this CPU.. Undervolted 10% maybe 60W?
I don't recall exactly what my 120W Xeon X5470 did in the Optiplex 380. But I don't think it went much over 60*C under load.


----------



## frankr2994 (Dec 20, 2022)

KLiKzg said:


> I bought them for some old X3360, but use them on Linux based Q9550S instead.
> 
> Also, I do not trust Supermicro, as several MBO failed on me. Those shit are not in my systems anymore! Only Intel's.



It's in a Dell t5810. And I don't even use the fan that came with the cooler. My supermicro cooler has the hold down bracket modified slightly to use the Dell screws. Fan is replaced with an additional front panel fan. 90x35 I think. Really high rpm high pressure fan. I can't fit anything bigger in my system so as far as an air cooler goes this is about top shit for it. 

Ran overclocks on my 8 core again the other night. Tried my hand at overclocking the cache as well. I can do 4.3ghz all core turbo with hyper threading on and 3.6ghz cache. Voltage at 1.20 each. Getting the cache clocked up from 3.0ghz really pours on the heat. Temps were about 79c stressed. And once again if I go to 4.4ghz I hit edp current limit. If I try 3.7ghz cache system freezes regardless of voltage. I ran cinebench r23 for an hour with 4.3/3.6 no issues. Calculated wattage (since I can't see it due to using powercut) is 250 watts.


----------



## frankr2994 (Dec 30, 2022)

Hey still playing around with this. Can anyone tell me what the throttle limit flag "PCS LIMIT" is?


----------



## unclewebb (Dec 30, 2022)

@frankr2994 

I can show you the Intel definition for PCS throttling but no idea what it means or how to correct this type of throttling problem.



> Platform Configuration Services Status
> When set, frequency is reduced below the operating system request due to PCS limit


----------



## frankr2994 (Dec 30, 2022)

unclewebb said:


> @frankr2994
> 
> I can show you the Intel definition for PCS throttling but no idea what it means or how to correct this type of throttling problem.


Lol. No need to correct. It happened when I tried setting CPU cache frequency and voltage way down in an attempt to get current headroom on the core clock. I just couldn't believe I set a limit flag I hadn't seen before. Thanks for letting me know what it stands for even if we have no idea what it actually is lol.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 4, 2023)

Hey I found some info earlier in this thread on someone giving it a go with a Dell t3610. They mentioned it took forever to get the multiplier unlocked but didn't go into any detail. Anyone know what maybe needs to be done?


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 4, 2023)

frankr2994 said:


> Hey I found some info earlier in this thread on someone giving it a go with a Dell t3610. They mentioned it took forever to get the multiplier unlocked but didn't go into any detail. Anyone know what maybe needs to be done?


I believe the C States need to be disabled in the bios for the OS to have direct multiplier control. Those settings are either in "Performance" or "Power Management".


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## unclewebb (Jan 4, 2023)

lexluthermiester said:


> the C States need to be disabled


Disabling the C states prevents Intel turbo boost from working correctly.  I would avoid doing that.


----------



## frankr2994 (Jan 4, 2023)

Well I'm assisting someone with this project. The sleep resume cycle like what works on my 5810 did not unlock the multiplier in TS.


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 4, 2023)

unclewebb said:


> Disabling the C states prevents Intel turbo boost from working correctly.  I would avoid doing that.


Not that I've seen. In Dell systems, turbo boosting is completely independent from the c-state functionality. At minimum all-core turbo still works properly.


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## frankr2994 (Jan 4, 2023)

CPU is an e5-1650v2


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## lexluthermiester (Jan 4, 2023)

frankr2994 said:


> CPU is an e5-1650v2


Oh! There's the problem. The 1650 is not unlocked. Only the 1660 and 1680 are unlocked, AFAIK. They need an upgrade to use TS properly.

EDIT: Or I could be wrong...








						Intel Xeon E5-1650 v2 Specs
					

Ivy Bridge-E, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 3.5 GHz, 130 W




					www.techpowerup.com
				



I was thinking of the V3 series...

EDIT2: Nope, even the 1650V3 is unlocked...


----------



## frankr2994 (Jan 4, 2023)

lexluthermiester said:


> Oh! There's the problem. The 1650 is not unlocked. Only the 1660 and 1680 are unlocked, AFAIK. They need an upgrade to use TS properly.
> 
> EDIT: Or I could be wrong...
> 
> ...


You're kidding. I would have never thought that the 1650v2 was locked but the v3 was unlocked.



lexluthermiester said:


> Oh! There's the problem. The 1650 is not unlocked. Only the 1660 and 1680 are unlocked, AFAIK. They need an upgrade to use TS properly.
> 
> EDIT: Or I could be wrong...
> 
> ...



Found this

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/8mpq1h


----------



## lexluthermiester (Jan 4, 2023)

frankr2994 said:


> You're kidding. I would have never thought that the 1650v2 was locked but the v3 was unlocked.


I got it wrong. They're both unlocked. For the system you're working on, it's down to the BIOS settings. Disable everything power management related except turbo boost and see if TS can work. You can even try disabling turbo, but that shouldn't be needed.


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 4, 2023)

Post a screenshot of the ThrottleStop Turbo Ratio Limits window. It will show in there if the CPU is locked or not and if it supports overclocking.

The Xeon CPU-Z screenshot that was posted likely comes from a computer using a BIOS with the original microcode. Some CPUs are unlocked when using this microcode. Any BIOS updates removes that feature and locks the multiplier. I cannot tell by the screenshot what microcode version was being used.


----------



## frankr2994 (Jan 4, 2023)

I don't have the PC I'm helping someone thousands of miles away.

And I know I have a gen newer but overclocking is locked until a sleep resume cycle is done. I was hoping this had something similar.


----------



## unclewebb (Jan 4, 2023)

That screenshot confirms that the E5-1650 v2 is a fully unlocked CPU. This is the same as any modern K series CPU with an unlocked maximum multiplier.

On your motherboard, the BIOS has locked out this feature. After you do a sleep resume cycle, does the lock icon in the Turbo Overclocking section disappear? Can you check the OC Overclock box if it becomes unlocked?





Sometimes the BIOS forgets to relock the CPU when resuming. That is a good thing when that happens.

Checking the MMIO Lock box In the TPL window can help unlock the maximum multiplier. This is only required on some motherboards. Some motherboards have the MMIO lock already taken care of.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 4, 2023)

Dell DCCU  (Distributed Client Configuration Utility) has an option to allow previous BIOS versions to write. Some BIOS modders use this utility to install their modded files. But screwing around with the BIOS is always risky. Especially based on advice from me. So it depends on how risk averse this user is. On my antique stuff it's no big deal to brick something.


----------



## frankr2994 (Jan 4, 2023)

Retrorockit said:


> Dell DCCU  (Distributed Client Configuration Utility) has an option to allow previous BIOS versions to write. Some BIOS modders use this utility to install their modded files. But screwing around with the BIOS is always risky. Especially based on advice from me. So it depends on how risk averse this user is. On my antique stuff it's no big deal to brick something.


I'd love to know if dccu would be able to write modded files to a 3610. However because I have actually never been successful is any bios mod I'm not about to walk someone else through it....if I ever actually get something done I'll write all about it and someone else can read and attempt to follow lol.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 5, 2023)

In BIOS Mods.com somewhere there is an explanation of the algorithm Dell uses for the checksum. DCCU, since it can write BIOS over a network seems to sidestep some local security features.
My understanding of BIOS modding is very poor. I've used DDCU to load the same BIOS version I already had with a Xeon CPU family code. So not a big mod. I've used it but I basically have no idea how it works, or what it is capable of. I didn't want the latest modded BIOS because Dell started digital signing at that point. What you're working on will already have that. I can only point you to look in that direction.


----------



## frankr2994 (Jan 5, 2023)

Well I've been able to load a "modded" bios like 20 times with my external programmer. Not a huge deal for me.....it is a pain but whatever. The bitch is I have never successfully modded anything. Even with the assistance of people from bios mods or win raid. Dell has so many defaulted values in their code you can change the world in it and somehow change nothing. It's rather impressive.if I was just swapping an efi module out within the bios that's no sweat.


----------



## Retrorockit (Jan 5, 2023)

KLiKzg said:


> Well, you might be very wrong...as it is strangely very efficient, Like 60~70°C on a full load of 105W CPU.
> 
> 
> It is the bracket, check picture!


 When testing my BTX heatsink with the TS undervolted Q9505s I forgot to turn my 150x50mm fan in my Opti 380 up to 2500rpm.
Hottest core was 42*C. Sometimes they were all 41*C.
 I may actually be able to TS overclock that CPU (sort of). I'll have to fire up a different computer, but it would be fun.


----------



## frankr2994 (Friday at 3:34 AM)

Well with the t3610 we have not been able to lift the multiplier lock. I sent a DM to a user on here that was able to overclock 6 of the 8 cores with his. Hopefully they respond to me but they only have a couple post on this forum. Also found a YouTube video showing someone got an overclock and all I could find was in the comments that they didn't do anything special. Posted specs show bios revision A03. Current bios for this machine is A19.


----------



## KLiKzg (Friday at 12:23 PM)

Retrorockit said:


> When testing my BTX heatsink with the TS undervolted Q9505s I forgot to turn my 150x50mm fan in my Opti 380 up to 2500rpm.
> Hottest core was 42*C. Sometimes they were all 41*C.
> I may actually be able to TS overclock that CPU (sort of). I'll have to fire up a different computer, but it would be fun.


My temps are from BOINC calcs turned on 100%.   

Only bad thing is that Q9550S does not work on Windows 10. So I run those on older Ubuntu.
But if you put X3360, this one works with Windows 10.


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## Retrorockit (Friday at 5:41 PM)

IDK why Q9505s won't work in WIN10? I think I stuck my spare one in an Opti XE and it runs 7 on one HDD and 10 on another.


			Gigabyte GA-G41MT-S2 Performance Results - UserBenchmark
		

Here's the theory on TS OC for the Q9505s.
My Q9505s  had 1.250V. stock. It runs just fine at 1.100V. It might run even lower but that's the lowest setting available in TS. So there is some headroom for an OC.
Enter the Dell T3400 BTX workstation. Locked BIOS, locked CPU. X38 chipset. 375W PSU with GPU 6 pin. 130W heatpipe cooler. ( Bigger 2x6 pin PSU available)
The X38 has undocumented support for 400fsb. A tapemod (different pin than the Q6600 tapemod) should access that.
Set multplier in TS to 7x400fsb. Should boot at 2.8Ghz with no problem. Now start working the Multipler up with TS and see if you can get 3.4Ghz (8.5x400) This would beat an X5470 except for the Q9505s 6M cache. The Q9550s is kind of pricey. I think the unlocked QX9650 was cheaper last time I looked. You might be able to sell the Q9505s and  get one of those???
If it can run at full speed on stock Voltage then the tapemod would work in Linux also, but you would need a 400fsb capable chipset (X38,X48). Maybe try that first? You could try this method with an E8600 2 core and see how far you can go with that CPU  if you want.


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## frankr2994 (Friday at 11:47 PM)

Hey was wondering if this is any sort of good practice? Can I rely on single core testing for voltage stability? Like set voltage up high enough to run 4.5 or 4.6ghz and just let the CPU throttle down below the amp limit when all the cores are up? That way anything single threaded could have some more speed. I don't recall ever getting different clocks based on cores in the fivr screen actually working.


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## lexluthermiester (Saturday at 2:02 AM)

KLiKzg said:


> Only bad thing is that Q9550S does not work on Windows 10.


What? Sure it does, it'll even run Windows 11. I've actually tested this in one of my own machines.


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## unclewebb (Saturday at 2:14 AM)

frankr2994 said:


> I don't recall ever getting different clocks based on cores in the fivr screen actually working.


Check if the C states are enabled. Intel Turbo Boost does not work correctly if the C states are disabled.

Here is a test of a 10850K with the turbo ratios set to their default values.






While running a TS Bench 1 Thread test with the C states enabled, it is easy to see that the CPU is using the correct 52 multiplier the vast majority of the time.





When the core C states are disabled, now the CPU is limited to the 48 multiplier during the exact same TS Bench 1 Thread test.





All Core i based CPUs produced since 2008 work the same way.

Only if you have an unlocked K series CPU and you are using the same multiplier no matter how many cores are active, then having the C states enabled or disabled does not matter. At default settings, most Core i CPUs use staggered turbo ratios that decrease as the number of active cores increases. Any Core i CPU that uses staggered turbo ratios has to have at least core C3 enabled so the CPU can boost up to the highest turbo multiplier when lightly loaded.


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## frankr2994 (Saturday at 3:03 AM)

unclewebb said:


> Check if the C states are enabled. Intel Turbo Boost does not work correctly if the C states are disabled.
> 
> Here is a test of a 10850K with the turbo ratios set to their default values.
> 
> ...


Ya I have an e5-1680v3 so it's like a k series CPU. Whatever I set 1 core in fivr is what all my cores can run. I have to also use the set multiplier option on the main page. The highest number on set multiplier is the highest number in fivr. if I don't use fivr and set multiplier together then I cannot get an overclock. So I've accepted that's how that works. I was really curious on can I tell that a voltage is stable based on single thread stressing. For instance it appears that I can run 4.5ghz single threaded at 1.27v. if I push a workload that is multi threaded I'll hit my amp limit and it will automatically clock down core speed and voltage to be under the limit. Which all core stable is 4.2. so my hope would be 1.27v at 4.5 single and 1.21v 4.2 all core .

Maybe I can do this...tried TS bench and cinebench r23. Single threaded and multi threaded seemed great. Single rode 4.5ghz and multi ran 4.3...which is higher than what I've been able to get. Ran 4.3ghz for 30min on R23. Figured what the hell so I started up F@H and it maxed out at 4.3 for about 5 minutes and crashed. So I think I may have to set my voltage higher to force the CPU to clock down to 4.2 instead of 4.3. another surprising thing was TS bench 16 threads ran at 4.5ghz...made way more heat than cinebench. Max temp was 81c. Started to make my cooling solution not so great. Homemade vrm heatsink also got...hot. don't know how hot because I haven't invested in an IR thermometer for at home but the heatsink fins could damn near burn me. Even the chokes and the caps for the vrm got quite hot.


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## KLiKzg (Saturday at 8:18 PM)

lexluthermiester said:


> What? Sure it does, it'll even run Windows 11. I've actually tested this in one of my own machines.


No, it will not - without the mod. 

So, what did you change?


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## frankr2994 (Saturday at 8:33 PM)

KLiKzg said:


> No, it will not - without the mod.
> 
> So, what did you change?


Most of the links are dead. But at the most all you would need with the install is the F6 Sata or chipset drivers for win 7 64bit. They were available from Intel but those links are dead. I'm sure if I put more than the little effort I just did I'd find them.


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## Retrorockit (Saturday at 8:50 PM)

I suppose a Dell T3400 might be hard to find in Zagreb.


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## lexluthermiester (Sunday at 2:57 AM)

KLiKzg said:


> No, it will not - without the mod.
> 
> So, what did you change?


Yes it will and DOES. I have a Lenovo desktop PC running a Core2Quad. It currently is dual booting Windows XP AND *Windows 11*. Runs perfectly. If it'll run Windows 11, it'll run Windows 10. If you can't install Windows 10 on that Q9550, you're doing something wrong.


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## frankr2994 (Sunday at 1:13 PM)

I can report that you can majorly piss off a t5810 with overclock. From what I was trying the other day I had the multiplier set at 4.5ghz with my 1680 and voltage cranked a over 1.27. when I booted up last night I forgot folding at home was going to start up automatically. So when I opened up TS it started the overclock but powercut cannot auto enable without me going into fivr. So it set every throttle flag all at once and hard locked my core speed to 800mhz. I got F@h stopped but ultimately had to restart the PC to fix it.  Wattage reading got to 185w which is above PL2 so I'm guessing that's what made it go nuts. Briefly thought I ruined everything lol.


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## KLiKzg (Sunday at 3:10 PM)

lexluthermiester said:


> Yes it will and DOES. I have a Lenovo desktop PC running a Core2Quad. It currently is dual booting Windows XP AND *Windows 11*. Runs perfectly. If it'll run Windows 11, it'll run Windows 10. If you can't install Windows 10 on that Q9550, you're doing something wrong.


Well, then explain this: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006105/processors.html


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## frankr2994 (Sunday at 4:44 PM)

KLiKzg said:


> Well, then explain this: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006105/processors.html
> 
> View attachment 278162


Doesn't officially support it. And why would they. How many people really care . Now the 8th gen and newer official support for 11 is a little upsetting. But since win 10s release people have basically been able to install it on damn near everything. Maybe you end up with a bunch of unknown devices in device manager but most of that could be taken care of with a little looking around too. Also there have been workarounds for win 11 on older stuff since the beginning. I noticed recently you can make your install media with Rufus to bake the workarounds in.


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## lexluthermiester (Sunday at 7:29 PM)

frankr2994 said:


> I can report that you can majorly piss off a t5810 with overclock. From what I was trying the other day I had the multiplier set at 4.5ghz with my 1680 and voltage cranked a over 1.27.


Did you make sure to increase the power limits in the TPL screen? You have to bump the power limits when OCing by more than 10ish%.



KLiKzg said:


> Well, then explain this: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006105/processors.html
> 
> View attachment 278162


I will answer with the following;



There you go. Just because Intel, microsoft or anyone else says it's not "compatible" does NOT mean it will not work and run perfectly. It should also be noted that this install of 11 is on a WesternDigital 640GB 7200RPM mechanical hard drive from 2012. Drive performance is acceptable(read good). (forgive the notepad mistake, I moved a sentence and it pasted in the wrong place, didn't realize it had happened until after taking the screenshot)



frankr2994 said:


> How many people really care .


Anyone who doesn't want to throw away a perfectly good and working PC? Just because it's older does NOT mean it's useless.


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## frankr2994 (Sunday at 7:48 PM)

lexluthermiester said:


> Did you make sure to increase the power limits in the TPL screen? You have to bump the power limits when OCing by more than 10ish%.
> 
> 
> I will answer with the following;
> ...


Using the powercut option. TPL is irrelevant. Just didn't have time to get powercut set before I knew what was going on. I'm pulling around 250watts so there is no setting for PL1 PL2 to make that happy

And you mis understood about who really cares. I wasn't knocking the older PC exactly. What I meant was Microsoft isn't going to get backlash for not supporting something that old. No one is going to care enough to write a nasty letter lol. I have no issue myself with anyone using old hardware..as long as it can still be practical for something. If it was low end junk new then nothing makes it good later. Most of us rocking old stuff the equipment would have been thousands new making it acceptable today for well something


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## lexluthermiester (Sunday at 8:49 PM)

frankr2994 said:


> Using the powercut option. TPL is irrelevant. Just didn't have time to get powercut set before I knew what was going on. I'm pulling around 250watts so there is no setting for PL1 PL2 to make that happy


Fair enough. I was having problems with a soft OC using TS and realized I needed to up the power limits at the same time. OC was stable after that. Thought I'd mention it just in case you hadn't tried it.



frankr2994 said:


> And you mis understood about who really cares. I wasn't knocking the older PC exactly. What I meant was Microsoft isn't going to get backlash for not supporting something that old. No one is going to care enough to write a nasty letter lol. I have no issue myself with anyone using old hardware..as long as it can still be practical for something. If it was low end junk new then nothing makes it good later. Most of us rocking old stuff the equipment would have been thousands new making it acceptable today for well something


Ah yes, thinking I did misunderstand you. Companies have their own bottom lines to consider and everything they say to the public is geared in that direction, including lying about compatibility.


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## frankr2994 (Sunday at 8:54 PM)

Yep. Just remember it's never my intention to be a dick lol. I try not to bash anyone or their equipment. All the threads I monitor pretty much revolve around "outdated" equipment.


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## lexluthermiester (Sunday at 9:05 PM)

frankr2994 said:


> Yep. Just remember it's never my intention to be a dick lol. I try not to bash anyone or their equipment. All the threads I monitor pretty much revolve around "outdated" equipment.


Oh no worries! That's not how it came off. It just seemed like you were taking a particular position when you actually meant something else. Thank You for explaining.


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## Retrorockit (Monday at 3:11 PM)

KLiKzg said:


> Well, then explain this: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006105/processors.html
> 
> View attachment 278162


Sometimes those lists are only what they bothered to test and certify. The Q9505s R0 stepping is the latest of the LGA775 CPUs. I would look at a BIOS update for a possible solution.
Dell is notorious for listing RAM cpacity based on what t hey offered at the time. Usually you can double that based on what the chipset supports. But Dell would rather sell you a newer computer..
Then there is this-
Tracking (PPT) envelope, which is a measurement of the maximum amount of power delivered to the socket. The Core 2 Quad Q9450's PPT tops out at 95W, while the motherboard can pump up to 142W to the Core 2 Quad Q9505S at peak performance. That opens up much more aggressive boost behavior, on both single and multiple cores, that could widen the performance gap beyond what we see on the spec sheet.


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