# help me decide



## Deleted member 67555 (Oct 12, 2009)

Microsoft Visual Studio pro or Java/macromedia/shockwave
Which would you start with and Why

MS VSpro is free....


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## exodusprime1337 (Oct 12, 2009)

VSpro because it's free in a way.  I find it funny you're asking that, i'm thinking of getting into this stuff myself


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 12, 2009)

Java has no standard IDE, Adobe pisses me off, and Visual Studio is the best overall IDE bar none.  Especially with .NET, all you really have to know is "Microsoft," "System," and the syntax of the language.  Everything else just falls in place.


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## Laurijan (Oct 12, 2009)

I would start with Java cause there are always jobs for Java programmers here in Oulu, Finland availible


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## A Cheese Danish (Oct 12, 2009)

VS hands down. Love it!


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## Deleted member 67555 (Oct 12, 2009)

*Thanks*



exodusprime1337 said:


> VSpro because it's free in a way.  I find it funny you're asking that, i'm thinking of getting into this stuff myself


Yeah Visual Express 2008 is free, and I think it's a natural progression of interest..I hope you do get into as well, I've been thinking about this for some time now i just haven't "Done it"



FordGT90Concept said:


> Java has no standard IDE, Adobe pisses me off, and Visual Studio is the best overall IDE bar none.  Especially with .NET, all you really have to know is "Microsoft," "System," and the syntax of the language.  Everything else just falls in place.


All good to know, and helps a lot thanks Ford



A Cheese Danish said:


> VS hands down. Love it!


I think I will too, thanks



Does anybody know if it's worth downloading the MSDN libraries now, or should I just wait till I need em?


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## Deleted member 67555 (Oct 13, 2009)

*Diregard other languages as english will be used but which of these should I donwload*

Besides Visual Studio of course 
 	 MSDN Library for Visual Studio 2005 - CD1  	 Windows
	MSDN Library for Visual Studio 2005 - CD2 	Windows
	MSDN Library for Visual Studio 2005 - CD3 	Windows
	MSDN Library for Visual Studio 2008 (x86 and x64 WoW) - DVD 	Windows
	MSDN Library for Visual Studio 2008 (x86) - DVD (German) 	Windows
	Visual Studio .NET 2003 Prerequisites (Deutsch) 	Windows
	Visual Studio .NET 2003 Professional - Full Install 	Windows
	Visual Studio .NET 2005 Professional - Full Install 	Windows
	Visual Studio .NET Academic Student Tools 2003 	Windows
	Visual Studio .NET Academic Teaching Tools 2003 	Windows
	Visual Studio .NET Professional 2003 CD1 ISO 	Windows
	Visual Studio .NET Professional 2003 CD2 ISO 	Windows
	Visual Studio .NET Professional 2003 Prerequisites ISO 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2005 Professional Edition CD1 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2005 Professional Edition CD2 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2005 Standard Edition CD1 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2005 Standard Edition CD2 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2005 Team Foundation Server Trial Edition 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2005 Team Suite - CD1 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2005 Team Suite - CD2 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2005 Team Suite - CD3 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2005 Tools for the Microsoft Office System 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2008 Express Edition with SP1 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2008 Professional Edition (x86 and x64 WoW) - DVD 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2008 Professional Edition (x86 and x64 WoW) - DVD (Spanish) 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2008 Professional Edition (x86) - DVD 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2008 SP1 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2008 Team Foundation Server Workgroup Edition (x86 and x64 WoW) - DVD 	Windows
	Visual Studio 2010 Professional Beta 1 (x86) - DVD 	Windows
	Visual Studio Team System 2008 Team Foundation Server SP1 	Windows
	Visual Studio Team System 2008 Team Foundation Server Standard Edition (x86) - DVD 	Windows
	Visual Studio Team System 2008 Team Foundation Server Workgroup Edition (x86) - DVD 	Windows
	Visual Studio Team System 2008 Team Suite (x86 and x64 WoW) - DVD 	Windows
	Visual Studio Team System 2008 Team Suite (x86) - DVD (Spanish) 	Windows


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 13, 2009)

The best: Visual Studio Team System 2008 Team Suite (x86 and x64 WoW) - DVD Windows
Update for it: Visual Studio 2008 SP1 Windows

I highly recommend to get SP1 before going to Microsoft Update for the updates.  One of the updates screws up Add/Remove programs.  SP1 fixes the the security hole in addition to not breaking Add/Remove.

The DVDs have MSDN included.  I occassionally use MSDN to check stuff I frequently forget (like the syntax to defining jagged/multi-dimension arrays).


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## Deleted member 67555 (Oct 14, 2009)

Wow 79mb's short of 4gb Downloading now
Hope you don't mind me bugging you about this often....


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## CrackerJack (Oct 15, 2009)

Microsoft Visual Studio Hands Down, tons of features. Helpful Online Help Support, comes with samples (download more from the main site, FREE) and to me I feel like I have more control....... lol




exodusprime1337 said:


> VSpro because it's free in a way.  I find it funny you're asking that, i'm thinking of getting into this stuff myself



Yeah there's no real big difference between Basic and Pro that I've seen. Try Basic before you get Pro though


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## Kreij (Oct 15, 2009)

The only thing that would prevent one from using VS is if they want to do Java programming. 
VS does not support Java at all anymore, after Sun sued MS for bastardizing the Java standard in their own implementation of it, Sun won a 20 million dollar verdict, and MS bailed on Java.


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## CrackerJack (Oct 15, 2009)

Kreij said:


> The only thing that would prevent one from using VS is if they want to do Java programming.
> VS does not support Java at all anymore, after Sun sued MS for bastardizing the Java standard in their own implementation of it, Sun won a 20 million dollar verdict, and MS bailed on Java.



True... Didn't think about that.

Well I'll ask for the both of us. Whats the best Java Programmer Software. I'm taking Java next semi and don't know much about it. Was more into VB and C


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## Kreij (Oct 15, 2009)

I don't know diddly about Java, so I pulled the latest JDK with the NetBeans IDE.
Works fine, but when I dug into the underlying code fo things, my brain exploded and I had to to scrape it off my computer desk and pour it back into my ear.
No big deal, that happens from time to time with new programming adventures.


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 15, 2009)

Eclipse is the closest Java IDE to Visual Studio.  It isn't as finely tuned but it is the best I tried.

Here's a pic of Eclipse (copy and paste it):

```
http://www.linuxlinks.com/portal/content/reviews/converting/Screenshots/Screenshot-Eclipse.png
```




jmcslob said:


> Wow 79mb's short of 4gb Downloading now
> Hope you don't mind me bugging you about this often....


Burn it after you download it then you won't have to download again unless you decide to go for 2010 once it is out of beta.




Kreij said:


> The only thing that would prevent one from using VS is if they want to do Java programming.
> VS does not support Java at all anymore, after Sun sued MS for bastardizing the Java standard in their own implementation of it, Sun won a 20 million dollar verdict, and MS bailed on Java.


Not completely...  The full story is that Visual Studio 6 had J++ which is its own brand of IDE/compiler which used Sun's Java Run Time (JRT).  Sun got their undies in a bundle, as you stated, and sued.  Microsoft felt that a standard library like Sun's JRT is the future. so they took a 4 year hiatus (1998-2002) making their own known as the .NET Framework.  Microsoft made their own Java friendly language for it too known as J# (J Sharp).  Sun couldn't bitch and moan about .NET nor J# because they were practically reversed engineered/coded from the ground up.  However, J# didn't have one thing Java did: cross-platform support.  Developers, therefore, saw no reason to switch to J#.  J# support was terminated in .NET Framework 2.0.

C# is a lot like Java in syntax and general scheme of things.  .NET Framework is vastly superior than JRT (better laid out, more features, 100% object oriented) but JRT has the advantage of being cross-platform.  People who only care about Windows, C# wins hands down.  People who care about more than just Windows will most likely use Java.


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## Deleted member 67555 (Oct 15, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Eclipse is the closest Java IDE to Visual Studio.  It isn't as finely tuned but it is the best I tried.
> 
> Here's a pic of Eclipse (copy and paste it):
> 
> ...


It's funny you should mention that I Keep all of my important ISO's on a separate External HD + I usually make a Backup Disc, However I ran out of Blank DVD's and was to Lazy to go get some from the store...this explains the rest...http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=106097
Again thanks Guys...The extra info is Fantastic...I'm enrolled in school but i won't start taking any classes of any Value till @least next fall and as the classes i take now are easy and BS I figured I'd get a huge head start.


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 15, 2009)

By the way, once you have VS2008 and then MSDN installed, ignore the option to get updates on the disk.  First install Visual Studio 2008 SP1 and then use Microsoft Update to get the rest of the updates.  If that Microsoft Update URL takes you to Windows Update, click on "Microsoft Update" at the top and follow the prompts.  Microsoft Update updates all Microsoft products from Office, to Windows, to SQL Server, to Visual Studio, to Streets and Trips (takes a lot longer to scan though).


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## Kreij (Oct 15, 2009)

@Ford
I loaded NetBeans 6.7.1 and it looks pretty close to the VS IDE. 
From you posted image, NetBeans and Eclipse look pretty close to each other too.
Is there something that Eclipse does inparticular that makes it your preference?


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## Deleted member 3 (Oct 15, 2009)

Personally I like VS (like most here), though seeing how you speak of  macromedia/shockwave. Will you build desktop applications or web? In the latter case you might end up with Visual Web Developer and ASP(x) basically tying you to IIS.

Also, please use decent thread titles next time.


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 15, 2009)

Kreij said:


> @Ford
> I loaded NetBeans 6.7.1 and it looks pretty close to the VS IDE.
> From you posted image, NetBeans and Eclipse look pretty close to each other too.
> Is there something that Eclipse does inparticular that makes it your preference?


It pulls up a menu as you type.  E.g. java.awt. would pull up the awt members/descriptions.


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