# Water cooled system overheating?!



## ManillaForce (Dec 21, 2012)

CPU is overheating on boot! Can't get past the BIOS, temps are 65+.
Leak tested for hours and ran good. Using distilled water.  Any suggestions?


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## [Ion] (Dec 21, 2012)

I'm almost certain that there isn't proper contact between the CPU block and the CPU.  I'd make sure that it's mounted properly and that the thermal paste is spreading properly.


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## cadaveca (Dec 21, 2012)

What is posted above. BUt...



ManillaForce said:


> CPU is overheating on boot! Can't get past the BIOS, temps are 65+.
> Leak tested for hours and ran good. Using distilled water.  Any suggestions?



Looks like loop goes from GPU, then CPU?

Honestly, I think that your loop is too complex for that single pump. I'd re-route it, res-pump-CPU-RAD-GPU-RAD, or CPU-GPU-RAD-RAD.


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## ManillaForce (Dec 21, 2012)

[Ion] said:


> I'm almost certain that there isn't proper contact between the CPU block and the CPU.  I'd make sure that it's mounted properly and that the thermal paste is spreading properly.



That was my first thought, shall give it a try.


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## ManillaForce (Dec 21, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> What is posted above. BUt...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Loop goes CPU-GPU-PUMP-RAD-RES-RAD


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## cadaveca (Dec 21, 2012)

ManillaForce said:


> Loop goes CPU-GPU-PUMP-RAD-RES-RAD



Normally res goes before pump?


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## drdeathx (Dec 21, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Normally res goes before pump?



+1 loop is not configured correctly.


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## ManillaForce (Dec 21, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Normally res goes before pump?



Mmm ok. I'll remount and reapply my CPU first to see if temps drops and if not I'll look into redoing the loop


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## MT Alex (Dec 21, 2012)

That's a DDC style pump with an after market top, so it should have enough head for the two rads and blocks.  I'm assuming since you did all the leak testing that you can see movement in your res, so water is flowing.  The res before the pump is a great rule of thumb, but with the location of your pump it's not going to be starved of water.  I'm betting things will be just fine after a remount, but honestly, things have to be really jacked up mounting wise for the cpu to get that hot so quickly, the problem should be visible to the naked eye.  I don't think too much TIM would screw things up that badly, your block would have to be cockeyed, or the sticker would still have to be on the bottom of the block.  You have fans on the top of your upper rad?


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## ManillaForce (Dec 21, 2012)

MT Alex said:


> That's a DDC style pump with an after market top, so it should have enough head for the two rads and blocks.  I'm assuming since you did all the leak testing that you can see movement in your res, so water is flowing.  The res before the pump is a great rule of thumb, but with the location of your pump it's not going to be starved of water.  I'm betting things will be just fine after a remount, but honestly, things have to be really jacked up mounting wise for the cpu to get that hot so quickly, the problem should be visible to the naked eye.  I don't think too much TIM would screw things up that badly, your block would have to be cockeyed, or the sticker would still have to be on the bottom of the block.  You have fans on the top of your upper rad?



I took the sticker off before hand, and yes I have 2 fan for the top 240 rad.


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## the54thvoid (Dec 21, 2012)

I think you've got air in that loop.

It's a very poor logical flow system you have there.  You fill the reservoir which drops water  into the pump via radiator.  But... the water wont simply fill the loop up to reservoir height - it'll get caught by air pockets in the radiator.  And when you switch the pump on it'll just suck air which will end up being circulated around that reservoir (especially if it's a bay res).

Unless you spent hours trying to fill it to the brim, I think air in loop.  Ideally your pump should be fed cleanly by the fill point (reservoir or fill port).  Otherwise air is going to be a problem.

So if you reseat your cpu block and still have the problem, change your loop orientation.


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## MT Alex (Dec 22, 2012)

It's a closed loop, and once you put the cap on the reservoir it is pressurized.   I imagine both the intake and exits of the res are at the bottom, so air won't magically get sucked into the loop.  Regardless, even if the pump was below the res, most loops have the res in or around that position in the case  .Sure, it's not ideal, but there isn't any hydraulic flaw with the loop.


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## drdeathx (Dec 22, 2012)

Take the side of the case off and post a photo.


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## sneekypeet (Dec 22, 2012)

drdeathx said:


> Take the side of the case off and post a photo.



There is an attachment in the OP

@ OP...Do you hear and gurgling when the loop is running?


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## Finners (Dec 22, 2012)

What rad is that in the front? seems to fit well. 

Is the pump defiantly coming on? and the quickest way I can see that would put the loop into a better order would be to swap the hose coming off the bottom of the GPU with the hose going from the RES to the big Radiator at the front


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## cadaveca (Dec 22, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> There is an attachment in the OP
> 
> @ OP...Do you hear and gurgling when the loop is running?



Read loop order.


Pump-rad-res. He's pumping water into the res only, the rest of the loop, the 240 rad up top, the CPU, and the GPU, are running off of pump vacuum and gravity. I don't see how it is even working at all. 

IF he flipped the pump around...OK...


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## sneekypeet (Dec 22, 2012)

Res will still build pressure against the trapped air wouldn't it? 
In no way would this be the way I ran a loop, but if the res is showing movement I'd go with that. IMHO the draw of the pump would collapse the tube if the flow was insufficient.


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## cadaveca (Dec 22, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> Res will still build pressure against the trapped air wouldn't it?
> In no way would this be the way I ran a loop, but if the res is showing movement, the draw of the pump would collapse the tube if the flow was insufficient.




Yeah, but how much pressure? enough to suck minimal water into the res. I bet the pump isn't even delivering half it's flow.

Like, it's so odd...I dunno wtf is going on there, but high temps, to me, are unsurprising.


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## MT Alex (Dec 22, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> Res will still build pressure against the trapped air wouldn't it?
> In no way would this be the way I ran a loop, but if the res is showing movement I'd go with that. IMHO the draw of the pump would collapse the tube if the flow was insufficient.



Yup.  I agree.

Remember:  It's a pressurized loop.  Pump placement doesn't mean doodley squat.


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## cadaveca (Dec 22, 2012)

MT Alex said:


> Yup.  I agree.



Not if the water is sitting there idle keeping the tubing rigid. There's no way with that restriction it's pulling much water.

pump placement matter for flow rate, no?


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## MT Alex (Dec 22, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Not if the water is sitting there idle keeping the tubing rigid.



Check my edit.


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## cadaveca (Dec 22, 2012)

Sneaking this one in before your new edit


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## sneekypeet (Dec 22, 2012)

I still say if the tube from GPU to pump isn't collapsing he has mounting issues or trapped air. Even with minimal flow he should be able to boot without overheating it. I could see under stress, but I have booted air coolers with the plastic still on the base and they boot to windows at 50some degrees.


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## cadaveca (Dec 22, 2012)

I wonder how much coolant is in the loop...


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## Finners (Dec 22, 2012)

excuse the crude edit but its late over here, this would be the easiest fix for your loop order imo


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## drdeathx (Dec 22, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> Read loop order.
> 
> 
> Pump-rad-res. He's pumping water into the res only, the rest of the loop, the 240 rad up top, the CPU, and the GPU, are running off of pump vacuum and gravity. I don't see how it is even working at all.
> ...



Your pump is working against gravity...


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## SirKeldon (Dec 22, 2012)

I'm agree with cadaveca that changing circuit direction will solve the problem, or it should, don't know that pump but ... if you guys say that has enough room and power to lift the water all way up through GPU and CPU i will suggest this just moving the deposit and maximizing the heat dissipation rad to rad







Anyway, that temps aren't normal for watercool if everything it's mounted ok ... only real advice is make your loop as you want but the link pump-reservoir for me it's mandatory as they told you, also, to avoid flow restriction at the beginning i don't like to pump directly into a rad and then a block, i prefer to maximize the flow on the blocks in case you need to use 45 or 90 degrees fittings (or equivalent bends as you have)

Hope you get it solved soon!


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## ManillaForce (Dec 22, 2012)

the54thvoid said:


> I think you've got air in that loop.
> 
> It's a very poor logical flow system you have there.  You fill the reservoir which drops water  into the pump via radiator.  But... the water wont simply fill the loop up to reservoir height - it'll get caught by air pockets in the radiator.  And when you switch the pump on it'll just suck air which will end up being circulated around that reservoir (especially if it's a bay res).
> 
> ...



Yep still having the same problem. Will change the loop design. Sorry first time watercooling


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## MxPhenom 216 (Dec 22, 2012)

ManillaForce said:


> Yep still having the same problem. Will change the loop design. Sorry first time watercooling



water cooling is all about planning. Dont just buy the stuff and throw something together. It wont work.


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## ManillaForce (Dec 22, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> There is an attachment in the OP
> 
> @ OP...Do you hear and gurgling when the loop is running?



Yes i do...


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## MxPhenom 216 (Dec 22, 2012)

ManillaForce said:


> Yes i do...



That means you have air in the loop.


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## ManillaForce (Dec 22, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> That means you have air in the loop.



Would the best approach be to remount the pump under the res so it intakes liquid first before running through the rads and blocks?


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## MxPhenom 216 (Dec 22, 2012)

ManillaForce said:


> Would the best approach be to remount the pump under the res so it intakes liquid first before running through the rads and blocks?



that wont change the air in the loop. You just need to have it running without the rest of the system components, and tilt the case all around to get rid of the air. I had to turn the pump on and off tilt the front of the case up pretty high to get rid of the air in my loop when i was bleeding it at first.


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## ManillaForce (Dec 22, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> that wont change the air in the loop. You just need to have it running without the rest of the system components, and tilt the case all around to get rid of the air. I had to turn the pump on and off tilt the front of the case up pretty high to get rid of the air in my loop when i was bleeding it at first.



Wow ok, will give that a try! Would you say the loop design is too restrictive or best too get rid of air pockets first and then recheck temps?


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## MxPhenom 216 (Dec 22, 2012)

ManillaForce said:


> Wow ok, will give that a try! Would you say the loop design is too restrictive or best too get rid of air pockets first and then recheck temps?



get rid of the air lol. Took me nearly 3 hours till i felt like it was okay to have the system completely running. The system will be drastically quieter when most of the air is gone.


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## ManillaForce (Dec 22, 2012)

Much thanks to everyone, will work on the issue and let know when it is resolved!


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## Kast (Dec 22, 2012)

Are you sure the water is flowing through the pump ? The way you have it set up now I would think the pump has to do too much to pull the water from the res. It has to pull from the res through the rad on top then cpu then gpu just to reach the pump. Go res pump and see how that goes.


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## Pehla (Dec 22, 2012)

i was reading post of all of u guys..,and i must agree with phenom..first get rid of air buble then reloop thing if nececery!!i was wondering how he fill up the loop?
let us know if u fix it!!


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## Aquinus (Dec 22, 2012)

SirKeldon said:


> I'm agree with cadaveca that changing circuit direction will solve the problem, or it should, don't know that pump but ... if you guys say that has enough room and power to lift the water all way up through GPU and CPU i will suggest this just moving the deposit and maximizing the heat dissipation rad to rad
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/121221/option1.jpg
> 
> ...



Your proposed loop leaves the res out.


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## SirKeldon (Dec 22, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> Your proposed loop leaves the res out.



Nope, i said him to move the reservoir (deposit) to that white space ... pump takes from reservoir and heads it to the GPU-CPU-Rad-Rad and the return of the rad to the reservoir again, how is "out" ?

I said to him that the only "mandatory" thing is that, to link the inlet of the pump to the outlet of reservoir, the rest of element disposition is up to you trying to avoid kinks, curves and big jumps cause in the end ... IMHO the temperature is gonna equilibrate in almost all the parts of the circuit w/o caring too much about the order of the elements, just the pump-reservoir one is a "must-to-have".

Also phenom is right ... once the loop is mounted flip your case around with the circuit running to let the air escape from blocks and radiators (specially this last one)


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## MT Alex (Dec 22, 2012)

Nothing "must-to-have" about the res.  It's a rule of thumb, nothing more, it's not affecting his flow rate at all.  The position of his res is no different than him having a T-line.  Granted, I'd never plumb a loop like that unless under sever circumstances, but there is no real reason to re-plumb after he properly bleeds and mounts.


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## cadaveca (Dec 22, 2012)

MT Alex said:


> Nothing "must-to-have" about the res.  It's a rule of thumb, nothing more, it's not affecting his flow rate at all.  The position of his res is no different than him having a T-line.  Granted, I'd never plumb a loop like that unless under sever circumstances, but there is no real reason to re-plumb after he properly bleeds and mounts.



True, but think about filling that loop. I bet the top rad, CPU block, GPU block, that whole end of the loop...it's empty.



I'm pretty sure that he's got the inlet of the res as the outlet and vice versa too, making forcing water up to the rad near impossible, especially if the res is not sealed tightly.

put the res before the pump, and you can fill it while running. His way...not so much...at least, that's what I think is going on here.


It could just be a bad mount too, of course.


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## SirKeldon (Dec 22, 2012)

MT Alex said:


> Nothing "must-to-have" about the res.  It's a rule of thumb, nothing more, it's not affecting his flow rate at all.  The position of his res is no different than him having a T-line.  Granted, I'd never plumb a loop like that unless under sever circumstances, but there is no real reason to re-plumb after he properly bleeds and mounts.



As i was saying, for me and IMHO it's a "must-to-have", maybe you got me wrong but i didn't mean a t-line in no cases, in my picture only blue tubes are the ones into the loop, not the white ones.


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## MT Alex (Dec 22, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> I'm pretty sure that he's got the inlet of the res as the outlet and vice versa too, making forcing water up to the rad near impossible, especially if the res is not sealed tightly.



He may have the block rotated, too, but it does have a specific "In" port.  That will jack things up for sure.








SirKeldon said:


> As i was saying, for me and IMHO it's a "must-to-have", maybe you got me wrong but i didn't mean a t-line in no cases, in my picture only blue tubes are the ones into the loop, not the white ones.



Nope, you were clear in your post, I was just trying to illustrate a point about having a res before the pump.


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## cadaveca (Dec 22, 2012)

MT Alex said:


> He may have the block rotated, too, but it does have a specific "In" port.  That will jack things up for sure.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/121222/Untitled.jpg




Yep, good catch. Looking at the logo on the block...that's the case too.


Either way, a loop re-build is in order.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Dec 22, 2012)

Loop rebuild and proper bleeding of the air is definitely in order.


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## ManillaForce (Dec 23, 2012)

MT Alex said:


> He may have the block rotated, too, but it does have a specific "In" port.  That will jack things up for sure.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/121222/Untitled.jpg
> 
> ...



Ahh, good eye, it is backwards! Fixing now


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## ManillaForce (Dec 23, 2012)

MT Alex said:


> He may have the block rotated, too, but it does have a specific "In" port.  That will jack things up for sure.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/121222/Untitled.jpg
> 
> ...



This was the problem! Made a world of a difference! I knew something was wrong, but I wasn't really sure what I was looking for.


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## MT Alex (Dec 23, 2012)

Glad things worked out.  Good luck in the future


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## Aquinus (Dec 23, 2012)

SirKeldon said:


> Nope, i said him to move the reservoir (deposit) to that white space ... pump takes from reservoir and heads it to the GPU-CPU-Rad-Rad and the return of the rad to the reservoir again, how is "out" ?



Simple, it looks like he has a drive bay reservoir and it isn't simply going to fit on the bottom of the chassis. Maybe you have an idea how to mount that further down? I know I don't.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Dec 23, 2012)

Nice to see you figured it out...........now go start overclocking!


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## m1dg3t (Dec 23, 2012)

Pumping _into_ your res is a bad idea. Changing the loop order should yield better performance


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## OneMoar (Dec 23, 2012)

make sure you heed t he extra advice anyway fix the direction and and bleed it properly 
that loop should keep things under 65c @ oc'd loads


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## SirKeldon (Dec 24, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> Simple, it looks like he has a drive bay reservoir and it isn't simply going to fit on the bottom of the chassis. Maybe you have an idea how to mount that further down? I know I don't.



Didn't notice about the 5,25" reservoir, thanks for pointing it out, if it's that way, maybe aligning the pump with that one (if there's room) and going res->pump->double rad->cpu->gpu->simple rad->res or not moving anything and just changing loop direction.


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