# NVIDIA Turing is a Crypto-mining Chip Jen-Hsun Huang Made to Save PC Gaming



## btarunr (Feb 15, 2018)

When Reuters reported Turing as NVIDIA's next gaming graphics card, we knew something was off about it. Something like that would break many of NVIDIA's naming conventions. It now turns out that Turing, named after British scientist Alan Turing, who is credited with leading a team of mathematicians that broke the Nazi "Enigma" cryptography, is a crypto-mining and blockchain compute accelerator. It is being designed to be compact, efficient, and ready for large-scale deployment by amateur miners and crypto-mining firms alike, in a quasi-industrial scale. 

NVIDIA Turing could be manufactured at a low-enough cost against GeForce-branded products, and in high-enough scales, to help bring down their prices, and save the PC gaming ecosystem. It could have an ASIC-like disruptive impact on the graphics card market, which could make mining with graphics cards less viable, in turn, lowering graphics card prices. With performance-segment and high-end graphics cards seeing 200-400% price inflation in the wake of crypto-currency mining wave, PC gaming is threatened as gamers are lured to the still-affordable new-generation console ecosystems, led by premium consoles such as the PlayStation 4 Pro and Xbox One X. There's no word on which GPU architecture Turing will be based on ("Pascal" or "Volta"). NVIDIA is expected to launch its entire family of next-generation GeForce GTX 2000-series "Volta" graphics cards in 2018.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 15, 2018)

They're making dedicated gaming cards, dedicated mining cards, dedicated AI cards, dedicated prosumer cards whatever the hell that means, dedicated self driving car chips and tegra.
Interesting to see whether this card changes things. It might but time will tell, it's a good move from nvidia.


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## xkm1948 (Feb 15, 2018)

If this turns out true I would be so happy


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## Fabio (Feb 15, 2018)

this will be useless. When all the mining cards are gone, miner start buying geforce, and if profittable, maybe less profittlable, they ll buu them all. No mattere how many cards there will be


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 15, 2018)

I wonder if this means any delays for next gen geforce cards. They're making Volta and now this one, probably in ridiculous amounts. TSMC will have their hands full.

This will only be useless if supply can't meet demand. Miners will swallow it and burp, then be back to buying geforce again. If they can saturate the market tho, it means a lot of good things for gaming card prices.


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## btarunr (Feb 15, 2018)

What if (big what if) Volta-based GeForce cards have artificially-crippled blockchain performance from their drivers/CUDA_CL?


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 15, 2018)

btarunr said:


> What if (big what if) Volta-based GeForce cards have artificially-crippled blockchain performance from their drivers/CUDA_CL?


Some mining nut will come up with an un-crippled driver.
It has to be done at HW level.


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## RejZoR (Feb 15, 2018)

Casual miners won't buy dedicated mining cards because they can't be sold as a gaming card later. And all these idiots think they'll make easy money with mining and then sell whole rigs for 50k bucks. It'll just never work unless they are absolutely forced to do it via locked BIOS and driver restrictions. At this point I don't care if hardcore overclockers are punished for it, bigger things are at stake than hardcore overclockers having their access to BIOS and GPU.


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## dj-electric (Feb 15, 2018)

btarunr said:


> What if (big what if) Volta-based GeForce cards have artificially-crippled blockchain performance from their drivers/CUDA_CL?



Only HW level will stop mining. People use open-source drivers on linux mining rigs that are out of nvidia's control


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## techy1 (Feb 15, 2018)

if this is true - I love him and his wierd leather jacket


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## cadaveca (Feb 15, 2018)

I only have one question... what fab line is going to make these chips so that they actually have an impact on supply? Fab time is a limited resource.


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## techy1 (Feb 15, 2018)

for spectics thinking that "casual miners"* will not switch to this and continiue to use theior gpus as they used to - if this Turning has significantly increased price/performance - there will be NO choice for miners - dificulty will skyrocket in a heart beat. old systems wont cover electricity costs - no matter how you feel about them and miners will have to decomplect their rigs and sell as fast (and low priced) as possible! just like with bitcoin happened when ASIC's hit the market - done with gpu mining for ever - like it or not! and that is a good news for all of us (not miners). and if this Turning has significantly increased performance/watt - then this will be a good news for planet too.
_____
* - what ever that term is these days - a guy with  just two gtx 1070s? or a guy just 3 rigs of 8 cards (each)?


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## Fabio (Feb 15, 2018)

techy1 said:


> for spectics thinking that "casual miners"* will not switch to this and continiue to use theior gpus as they used to - if this Turning has significantly increased price/performance - there will be NO choice for miners - dificulty will skyrocket in a heart beat. old systems wont cover electricity costs - no matter how you feel about them and miners will have to decomplect their rigs and sell as fast (and low priced) as possible! just like with bitcoin happened when ASIC's hit the market - done with gpu mining for ever - like it or not! and that is a good news for all of us (not miners). and if this Turning has significantly increased performance/watt - then this will be a good news for planet too.
> _____
> * - what ever that term is these days - a guy with  just two gtx 1070s? or a guy just 3 rigs of 8 cards (each)?


the only good news for the planet is a fast reaction of the governments to definitely knock down the crypto plague, along with the mining


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## evernessince (Feb 15, 2018)

So either I'm missing something or there's not many details here.  I'm looking for release dates.  This don't mean much if it's launched 2 years from now and the coin bubble has popped.


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## the54thvoid (Feb 15, 2018)

Casual miners haven't been the villains of GPU price inflation. It's semi-pro miners, looking to make a constant and moderate income. Buying 2 cards to mine is casual. Buying 8, requiring mobo modding or a bespoke mining set up with risers etc, that's the start. The real culprits though are even more industrial.
Hobby miners were never to blame. It was the investors and then the gold rush.  These cards, if true, would help.


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## Upgrayedd (Feb 15, 2018)

evernessince said:


> So either I'm missing something or there's not many details here.  I'm looking for release dates.  This don't mean much if it's launched 2 years from now and the coin bubble has popped.


It's all still speculation. Nobody knows really. Don't know why this got put as factual news. One of the sourced articles said April 12th. Reuters vaguely mentions Turing as a gaming chip. Crypto carrying this train hard af.


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## TheGuruStud (Feb 15, 2018)

Little Huang is blowing smoke up your bungholes. It's another attempt at inflated prices for something specialty that excels at nothing and has no resale value.

How much you wanna bet it's Pascal with only compute and minimal amount of fast ram?


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## ZoneDymo (Feb 15, 2018)

This just seems pointless to me


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## dj-electric (Feb 15, 2018)

TheGuruStud said:


> Little Huang is blowing smoke up your bungholes. It's another attempt at inflated prices for something specialty that excels at nothing and has no resale value.
> 
> How much you wanna bet it's Pascal with only compute and minimal amount of fast ram?



And that's not fine because?


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## Xzibit (Feb 15, 2018)

Upgrayedd said:


> It's all still speculation. Nobody knows really. Don't know why this got put as factual news. One of the sourced articles said April 12th. Reuters vaguely mentions Turing as a gaming chip. Crypto carrying this train hard af.



Almost every techsite says the same thing verbatim and using the Feb 9 Reuters report. Almost like a presser went out and every ones reporting the same thing in 1-2 days span


			
				Reuters said:
			
		

> The new GPU gaming chip, code named Turing, is expected to be unveiled next month.



Nvidia GTC is scheduled next month March 26-29. Nvidia is calling it "AI & Deep Learning Conference"

Maybe the name got lost in translation and Turing = To Ring, in more moneys!!!

We can all hope for something like a GTX 2080 Founders Turing Edition


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## TheGuruStud (Feb 15, 2018)

dj-electric said:


> And that's not fine because?



Probably b/c it will be priced too high and it's still using RAM needed for gaming cards...  It's a cash grab or at attempt. Time will tell.


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## Aldain (Feb 15, 2018)

Dear site..

What is with the messianic titile in the topic? Yeah Nvidia CEO is making this card to save pc gaming and not ot make profit from it . You made a topic based on a rumor from Reuters and made it into a puff piece.. Are you CNN and WCCFTECH all in one?


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## LemmingOverlord (Feb 15, 2018)

Uhm, maybe this is a dumb questoin, but why would a crypto-mining ASIC-like piece of silicon be based on Volta or Pascal?


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## Fluffmeister (Feb 15, 2018)

Smart business, well played Nvidia.

Another bumper year for you.


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## john_ (Feb 15, 2018)

xkm1948 said:


> If this turns out true I would be so happy



Nvidia will be happier, making a gazillion of dollars. But it could bring prices for ALL graphics cards down, which would be great.


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## Vya Domus (Feb 15, 2018)

So if it's not an ASIC ... then what is it ? Because if they start from current designs it can't get much faster at miming than it already is. The only thing I can image as to what they can do is eliminate some of the critical stages for the graphics pipeline like the rasterizer and what not and fill the remaining die space with more SIMD lanes. Which will make it better at compute and useless for graphics.

Thing is , this is pretty much guaranteed to eat away the very wafers that are being used for their consumer graphics , there's no other way. Seems like everyone might get played again by our boy Huang , they aren't saving jack shit , they are optimizing their products for mining. Nvidia has never been a long term company for the most part , they are always for the profit in the here and now. This is exactly that.


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## BorgOvermind (Feb 15, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> They're making dedicated gaming cards, dedicated mining cards, dedicated AI cards, dedicated prosumer cards whatever the hell that means, dedicated self driving car chips and tegra.
> Interesting to see whether this card changes things. It might but time will tell, it's a good move from nvidia.


...while it's 99% the same card with various things and tweaks enabled or not.


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## bug (Feb 15, 2018)

TheGuruStud said:


> Probably b/c it will be priced too high and it's still using RAM needed for gaming cards...  It's a cash grab or at attempt. Time will tell.


Yeah, we should ban companies that release products only to make money


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## Fluffmeister (Feb 15, 2018)

bug said:


> Yeah, we should ban companies that release products only to make money



I suspect Nvidia's investors and share holders are glad a lot of these forum warriors don't run the company.


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## qubit (Feb 15, 2018)

@btarunr Do you have a source link for this Turing development?


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## First Strike (Feb 15, 2018)

TheGuruStud said:


> Probably b/c it will be priced too high and it's still using RAM needed for gaming cards...  It's a cash grab or at attempt. Time will tell.


Oh, grabbing cash from mining industry, sounds good to me, except that is completely non-sense.

This is as ridiculous as to say somebody exploits Wall Street fund managers. They calculate expenditure/income to extreme, and you want to cash-grab them?


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## iO (Feb 15, 2018)

It might be a compute chip without any graphics pipeline and even some optimisations to typical blockchain workloads. But nothing purely mining specific, too volatile and risky


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## intelzen (Feb 15, 2018)

well this article (information) is about near future - and  everyone can interpret as he likes... but lets us agree on some information about present days, that are based on facts (that are less for interpretation):
1) all gpus are sold out for x2 price right now (so no waffers and fab resources are avalible for you gamer to get at this point).
2) nvidia and amd are making money of it right now.
3) more miners enter the game - more difficulty rises and less money miners get.

so how exaclty these news are bad for gamers? gamers wont get cards, because nvidia will use existing waffers to produce miner cards? 
answer - gamersdoes notand wont get any gpu anyway - nor 2 year old gtx 1070 nor potential new gtx 20XX if this situation in mining does not collpase or market will be flooded with more powerfull rigs that can increase difficulty significantly, and Jen-Hsuns pockets will be filled with miners cahs anyway. So look at this at the bight side, if this architecture is more optimized for mining, and it hits the mining market - then dificulty will rise and mining will be less profitable with existing rigs, even when Jen-Hsuns used up all your waffers in the process and filled his pockets - still you will get second hand cards then - because those millions of existing mining rigs will hit ebay and compete with each oter.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 15, 2018)

btarunr said:


> What if (big what if) Volta-based GeForce cards have artificially-crippled blockchain performance from their drivers/CUDA_CL?


That has been talked about. But the problem is that driver level limitations can be overcome if an open-source cryptocurrency focused alternative is used.


Aldain said:


> Dear site..
> What is with the messianic titile in the topic? Yeah Nvidia CEO is making this card to save pc gaming and not ot make profit from it . You made a topic based on a rumor from Reuters and made it into a puff piece.. Are you CNN and WCCFTECH all in one?


If you don't like it, don't come here. Whining about it will only get you some cheese.. And not the good kind.


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## jabbadap (Feb 15, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> So if it's not an ASIC ... then what is it ? Because if they start from current designs it can't get much faster at miming than it already is. The only thing I can image as to what they can do is eliminate some of the critical stages for the graphics pipeline like the rasterizer and what not and fill the remaining die space with more SIMD lanes. Which will make it better at compute and useless for graphics.
> 
> Thing is , this is pretty much guaranteed to eat away the very wafers that are being used for their consumer graphics , there's no other way. Seems like everyone might get played again by our boy Huang , they aren't saving jack shit , they are optimizing their products for mining. Nvidia has never been a long term company for the most part , they are always for the profit in the here and now. This is exactly that.



Well chip with very low power and enough compute perf. and memory bandwidth should do it. 

Wonder if nvidia is the one behind TSMCs custom cryptoasic order, samsung has some crypto manufacturing asic deals too. But knowing close relationship between nvidia and tsmc, the former is safe bet.


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## Gasaraki (Feb 15, 2018)

cucker tarlson said:


> I wonder if this means any delays for next gen geforce cards. They're making Volta and now this one, probably in ridiculous amounts. TSMC will have their hands full.
> 
> This will only be useless if supply can't meet demand. Miners will swallow it and burp, then be back to buying geforce again. If they can saturate the market tho, it means a lot of good things for gaming card prices.



They recently signed a deal with Samsung also to start making chips. Don't know if it's Volta processors or Turing.


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## Nicholas Peyton (Feb 15, 2018)

There must be a solution to this.

My idea would be to include a display-port or HDMI port as normal. But to have a *lower *hard limit on voltage. Miners typically always under-volt their mining cards.

For example if I mine on my own 1080Ti it will draw up to 336 watts at only 0.9v. _(it does 1999Mhz at 0.9v)_

Even at stock the voltage would actually be 1.06v which would put power draw up to nearly 500 watts. Which would soon kill a card if left mining at that current/voltage throughput continuously.

By limiting voltage (at hard level) to lower than that of the GeForce counterparts, it would deter gamers from buying them *initially*.

*But *would still offer a cheap Ebay bargain for a gamer that doesn't care about overclocking and who doesn't mind their card being effectively "down-tuned" compared to a regular card. This would enable resale of the card as people would love to snap up a bargain on a down-tuned variant.  Moreoever they'd have the peace of mind knowing that although the card has been used for mining, voltage has always been kept low. In other words the card will have been "broken in" gently.

This also wouldn't affect mining performance because no miner who is trying to turn a profit (while paying electric) is running their card at stock voltages. And certainly isn't overclocking.

I estimate my card is probably actually most efficient at about 0.8 to 0.85v


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## mouacyk (Feb 15, 2018)

Only the Codename of Turing seems to be news.  Various AIBs have already announced mining-specific GPUs last year and have already sold mining-specific cards for a while.
See Asus GP106 model without any outputs here: https://www.asus.com/Graphics-Cards/MINING-P106-6G/gallery/
Pascal mining news from 2017: http://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics...-gpu-cryptocurrency-mining-solution-pictured/

This is really just NVidia ramping up (current Pascal and next-gen) die production for those mining cards.  They had their chance to "save" the gamers for a while now, but they didn't fearing the volatility of the crypto-coins just like Steam did.  What changed is that the crypto-coins didn't burst, so analysts and investors are putting pressure on NVidia because they are 10x bigger than the competitor.  If you piece  NVidia news together for the last 6 months, it's very cohesive and centered around the dynamics of crypto -- particularly BTC.


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## bug (Feb 15, 2018)

Nicholas Peyton said:


> There must be a solution to this.
> 
> My idea would be to include a display-port or HDMI port as normal. But to have a *lower *hard limit on voltage. Miners typically always under-volt their mining cards.
> 
> ...


Wild guess: those that build the cards know best how to limit/prevent mining and their solution was to build cheap silicon in the form of Turing.


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## mouacyk (Feb 15, 2018)

Nicholas Peyton said:


> *But *would still offer a cheap Ebay bargain for a gamer that doesn't care about overclocking and who doesn't mind their card being effectively "down-tuned" compared to a regular card. This would enable resale of the card as people would love to snap up a bargain on a down-tuned variant.  Moreoever they'd have the peace of mind knowing that although the card has been used for mining, voltage has always been kept low. In other words the card will have been "broken in" gently.


It is a great overall solution, one that NVidia would NOT be interested in.  Market segmentation is a classic business strategy (for profits).  Any business will do everything they can to NOT hurt their future profits (especially from sales).


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## Totally (Feb 15, 2018)

xkm1948 said:


> If this turns out true I would be so happy



Alas it sounds too good to be true.


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## Steevo (Feb 15, 2018)

cadaveca said:


> I only have one question... what fab line is going to make these chips so that they actually have an impact on supply? Fab time is a limited resource.




The one powered by the Jen fan club. Since he and his leather jacket are here to save us, and not make profit.


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## xytras (Feb 15, 2018)

Fabio said:


> this will be useless. When all the mining cards are gone, miner start buying geforce, and if profittable, maybe less profittlable, they ll buu them all. No mattere how many cards there will be



Assumption they will not have stock of Crypto-Cards. Smells like Nintendo and the NES Classic.


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## Casecutter (Feb 15, 2018)

RejZoR said:


> they can't be sold as a gaming card later


And is environmental boon-dog-gal. Huge energy to make a chip, energy to mine, and no after life other than a landfill. Isn't Technology wonderful!


cadaveca said:


> Fab time is a limited resource.


Amen, you can't give use gaming card now how is moving production to attend to this hugely profitable market going to save gaming?  More like abandoning gaming might be the Headline!


techy1 said:


> if this Turning has significantly increased price/performance


Then they seem to have been working for awhile designing such new technology, or is a few tweaks to Pascal able to make that much difference?


the54thvoid said:


> mining set up with risers etc, that's the start. The real culprits though are even more industrial.


Agreed, but even Egg is the one bundling 6 Vega's with risers so they are selling.


TheGuruStud said:


> and it's still using RAM needed for gaming cards


That's another big issue...


Aldain said:


> Yeah Nvidia CEO is making this card to save pc gaming and not ot make profit from it


More abandoning a low volume high maintenance market, for a new higher volume/profit market.


Vya Domus said:


> Because if they start from current designs it can't get much faster at miming than it already is.


That is if the ceased working on gaming designs some time ago to place engineer resources in developing a design better suite for hash/power improvements and forgo developing improved gaming engineered designs.

All what is here are good topics, and they point less to be for aiding the gaming community.


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## dozenfury (Feb 15, 2018)

I think most miners have known this is the eventual end-game for gpu-based crypto.  It will almost certainly follow the same evolution as cpu mining did when it shifted to industrial/ASIC mining which made it no longer viable for small-scale miners.  We just happen to be in the window now (which btw has lasted much longer than I expected) before we get there.  But it sounds like the clouds are forming for it to finally happen.  

You're still going to have the moderate-sized miners that have a garage full of rack mining systems at home that have invested $50k+.  But it would definitely kill off small scale mining, and those are really the people paying 200%+ premiums for video cards thinking they'll get rich quick.  Large-scale miners aren't the ones paying $500 for a 1060 or 580, or $1500 for a 1080ti, they are buying in bulk (even by the pallet) at close to MSRP.  So making small-scale mining unprofitable would definitely bring prices down for the gaming masses.


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## Vya Domus (Feb 15, 2018)

Casecutter said:


> That is if the ceased working on gaming designs some time ago to place engineer resources in developing a design better suite for hash/power improvements and forgo developing improved gaming engineered designs.



They stopped working and pouring money into consumer graphics maybe as far back as Maxwell. Most of their cash and work has been put into working with TSMC and slowly shifting the focus on compute.


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## kruk (Feb 15, 2018)

Instead of ramping up the gaming GPU production and thereby reducing market pressure/prices, they decided to produce a accelerator that will *probably* *be useless for gaming* and will start *filling landfills *in third world countries when mining on these chips won't be profitable anymore. And as nVidia loves vendor lock-in, they will almost 100% produce a proprietary mining software (which might or might not be pay 2 use) and significantly gimp everything open source.

As others said, there is really nothing to cheer about ...


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## Fluffmeister (Feb 15, 2018)

Steevo said:


> The one powered by the Jen fan club. Since he and his leather jacket are here to save us, and not make profit.



Jen is easily my fave ex-AMD employee!


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## yotano211 (Feb 15, 2018)

Fun reading anyone that posted that this "card" will save PC gaming. Another rumor with tons of hot air.


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## dicktracy (Feb 15, 2018)

This is just speculation from Digital Trend


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## Franzen4Real (Feb 15, 2018)

Upgrayedd said:


> It's all still speculation. Nobody knows really. Don't know why this got put as factual news. One of the sourced articles said April 12th. Reuters vaguely mentions Turing as a gaming chip. Crypto carrying this train hard af.





Xzibit said:


> Nvidia GTC is scheduled next month March 26-29. Nvidia is calling it "AI & Deep Learning Conference"



I have to agree. The article seems to take the Alan Turing cracked crptyography, therefore this is a crypto mining card approach and ran with it. I know talking about mining all the time is the trending thing to do at the moment, however, he is also responsible for the Turing Test, which evaluates a machines ability to learn and behave like a human being. As Xzibit pointed out Nvidia GTC is scheduled next month March 26-29. Nvidia is calling it "AI & Deep Learning Conference", I feel it is FAR more likely that this card will have something to do with the later, not the former.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

  nVidia has shown they are very committed to the deep learning and AI sector, which has amazing long term potential and benefits across hundreds of use cases.
  Crypto currency and mining on GPUs could be gone just as fast as their prices rise and fall, it's a very volatile. If it is true that releasing a mining card on a mass scale will drastically ramp up difficulty to mine on a GPU, why would they base an entire business model on something that will essentially create its own demise? (as in, the more people buy these cards> the more people will mine> the more difficult mining gets> the less return/value/reason there is to mining>the less people will buy the cards). 

  Because of this I would be shocked if this ends up being a mining specific card. But you never know, maybe it will be. Maybe they just want to cash in while the getting is great, and throw a bone to gamers. This is why I am not the head of nVidia I guess. All I can say is if it is a mining card, they need to disable mining on the GeForce brand completely, just as they have disabled the use of the GeForce brand in datacenters.


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## jabbadap (Feb 15, 2018)

cadaveca said:


> I only have one question... what fab line is going to make these chips so that they actually have an impact on supply? Fab time is a limited resource.



Maybe the fab line which does not make gpus in the first place, like TSMCs 12nm FFC or GF 12nm FDX. I would be more concerned about graphics memory shortages, than fab lines though.


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## RealNeil (Feb 15, 2018)

evernessince said:


> I'm looking for release dates.



They're kicking around a March release date. (not set in stone yet)


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## RejZoR (Feb 15, 2018)

It's hilarious how everyone is concerned over landfills getting filled with unused crypto cards, but no one has an issue with burning of terawatts of power to calculate meaningless numbers to make money. Which is essentially what cryptocurrency is.


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## Captain_Tom (Feb 15, 2018)

So if Nvidia wanted to, they could take V100 and:

1) Cut the amount of HBM down to 6GB, but clock it faster.
2) Remove the tensor cores and manufacture these cards on 16nm (instead of the more expensive 12nm).  
3) Use a smaller core, but clock it faster; and then turn the fan up to 70% to mitigate the extra heat.

^ With these tweaks they could probably make the thing do ~80-100 MH/s ETH @200-250w out of the box.  With those numbers they could easily charge $1500.   I could also see a cut-down 50 MH/s @200w GDDR6 variant sold for $600.


However I am _very _ skeptical about how much effort Nvidia will actually put into making these cards truly worth it.   After all, everything I just stated was in reference to mining Ethereum; but there are SO many other cryptocurrencies that these cards would not be as good as the price would suggest they should be.  Let us not forget that Vega 64 beats V100 at both Monero mining, and relative dual-mining capabilities while utilizing half the die size and a smaller bus...

*What would truly be remarkable is if Nvidia managed to make Turing substantially more efficient at ETHash, ETHash dual mining, Equihash, cryptonight, X17, and basically any emerging mining algorithms they think are on the horizon.  And then they also included 1 x HDMI 2.1, and 1 x Displayport 1.4 in case someone eventually does want to use one of these cards for gaming.*


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## Fluffmeister (Feb 15, 2018)

RejZoR said:


> It's hilarious how everyone is concerned over landfills getting filled with unused crypto cards, but no one has an issue with burning of terawatts of power to calculate meaningless numbers to make money. Which is essentially what cryptocurrency is.



I did laugh too, Nv have announced nothing yet and it's already in landfill causing environmental damage!


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## kruk (Feb 15, 2018)

RejZoR said:


> It's hilarious how everyone is concerned over landfills getting filled with unused crypto cards, but no one has an issue with burning of terawatts of power to calculate meaningless numbers to make money. Which is essentially what cryptocurrency is.



And people burn terawatts of power to calculate meaningless pixels to play games ... At least gaming cards can be reused for years (I still use a 15 years old Geforce 6000 series card) which won't be the case for mining only cards.

Landfills in poor countries might seem a joke to you (and others), but those who daily inhale the toxic fumes coming from them aren't laughing ...


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## Casecutter (Feb 15, 2018)

Franzen4Real said:


> (as in, the more people buy these cards> the more people will mine> the more difficult mining gets> the less return/value/reason there is to mining>the less people will buy the cards).


It is a strange scheme that only those who got in at the top make money. ▲ Well until it's taken by a hacker(s) that seems to be the better side of the equation to get in on.



RejZoR said:


> It's hilarious how everyone is concerned over landfills getting filled with unused crypto cards, but no one has an issue with burning of terawatts of power to calculate meaningless numbers to make money. Which is essentially what cryptocurrency is.


It is the whole eco-system energy to design, produce wafers, create them into boards, packaging, ships/trucks to move them, then energy to run them to do what actual work! (at least Folding did help do something).  At least most GPU's that don't fail at least go on to a second even third use-life before retired.  Such crypo-only-cards are fairly useless the moment the hash/watt equation moves and they're no longer profitable.

There are always folk who can't discuss the ramification of an action until too late.
Bullets fly, and it's to soon to talk about... time passes and why are you talking about that, no ones got time for that anymore!  As human we gotten into weird mentality of apathy or playing into others diversion tactics. _(or both)_


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## Fluffmeister (Feb 15, 2018)

Bullets flying and a lack of apathy seems apt... or maybe not, hey ho.


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## efikkan (Feb 15, 2018)

If true, this has got to be one of the most useless pieces of technology in a long time. Mining of cryptocurrency is only computational demanding to regulate the generation of new currency. Cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin have a fixed of currency generation and a cap on total volume, so advancing mining hardware is nearly pointless. This workload is just wasted power, it's not like it contributes to anything useful. Bitcoin mining already consumes energy comparable to a country like Ireland, all of it completely unnecessarily.


----------



## Xzibit (Feb 15, 2018)

qubit said:


> @btarunr Do you have a source link for this Turing development?



Its speculation which a lot of the tech sites are doing now a days for whatever reason.

*Digital Trends - Nvidia may reveal dedicated ‘Turing’ cryptocurrency mining cards in March*



			
				Digital Trends said:
			
		

> Nvidia is expected to introduce new graphics cards for the gaming market, *possibly* codenamed “Turing,” during its GPU Technology Conference (GTC) starting March 26.



Which again site the Feb 9 Reuters that everyone is using as source.  @btarunr says its a Crypto card but the article he sources from Digital speculates its a gaming card at first they arent even sure themselves. Whoops!!!!



			
				Digital Trends said:
			
		

> *Everything going forward most likely is still Volta. But the Ampere and Turing code names may be used to describe cards for two different markets* given the new landscape: Gaming and cryptocurrency mining. *Previous rumors pointed to Ampere code-named gaming cards while Turing likely references to cryptocurrency mining cards. Those names may be reversed too*, but highly unlikely.



Its always beneficial to read the links/sources themselves in their entirety.



dicktracy said:


> This is just speculation from Digital Trend



Pretty much now slap a sensationalize Headline to get traffic for your website.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 15, 2018)

Can't see it happening like this , no cited source , and regardless not enough memory to go round so the big rescue if it existed isn't going to work.

So

A. It's all balls

B. It's Spesh and a stupid idea given the market would be awash with mint ish seconds for months

C. Same old shit repackaged , tweaked a bit with a price hike.

I know which one it definitely isn't B.


----------



## Sandbo (Feb 15, 2018)

I am not saying this is a good practice (in fact really bad),
Nvidia might just disable the support on CUDA/GPGPU on their gaming cards, which will probably solve the problem.....


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 15, 2018)

Sandbo said:


> Nvidia might just disable the support on CUDA/GPGPU on their gaming cards



Can't be done.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 15, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Can't be done.


Oh, don't kid yourself. It can be done in the official drivers.


----------



## Casecutter (Feb 15, 2018)

Fluffmeister said:


> Bullets flying and a lack of apathy seems apt... or maybe not, hey ho.


I think the word you wanted was "Empathy" as in; you seem to lack any...


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 15, 2018)

I just want to see how this plays out.

If it works Great, if not, no one is getting a hold of my 290 VaporX lol


----------



## kuwlness (Feb 15, 2018)

Called this one to a T on Tuesday. Booyah!! We miners gonna keep on mining! Haters keep on hating. 

"This card should be an exceptional crypto miner. They're obviously going after AMD/Radeon with this one since Radeon cards are great for mining Ethereum and nVidia has always lagged here. Ethereum is a "Turing" Complete blockchain."


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 15, 2018)

lexluthermiester said:


> Oh, don't kid yourself. It can be done in the official drivers.



While PTX , Nvidia's high-level assembly language for CUDA, is closed source and controlled through the driver the actual shader assembly generated by it is available to anyone. Meaning that "disabling CUDA" would be absolutely useless. It's like saying that without Intel's closed compiler you can never write a program for their microarchitecture again , clearly not true.

Therfore , it can't be done. No question about it.


----------



## Fluffmeister (Feb 15, 2018)

Casecutter said:


> I think the word you wanted was "Empathy" as in; you seem to lack any...



No definitely apathy, as it doesn't concern me (or those in power). But after Sandy it's hard to have any empathy...


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 15, 2018)

Even disabling Cuda wouldn't stop it ,direct compute, open CL/GL still exists essentially the algorithms are similar to some parts of game code soo ,yeh turn it off for consumers and see physx as what??


----------



## Fluffmeister (Feb 15, 2018)

So basically what you are all saying is... what ever Nvidia release will sell like hot cakes and make them loads of money?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Feb 15, 2018)

Fluffmeister said:


> So basically what you are all saying is... what ever Nvidia release will sell like hot cakes and make them loads of money?


The law , and they normally abide.


----------



## Fluffmeister (Feb 15, 2018)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> The law , and they normally abide.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 16, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> While PTX , Nvidia's high-level assembly language for CUDA, is closed source and controlled through the driver the actual shader assembly generated by it is available to anyone. Meaning that "disabling CUDA" would be absolutely useless. It's like saying that without Intel's closed compiler you can never write a program for their micro-architecture again , clearly not true. Therfore , it can't be done. No question about it.


You seem to have misunderstood. If *Nvidia* wants to lock such out of *their* driver, they *can do so*. Can the community come up with an alternative? Sure. And I think that's already been done.


----------



## Aquinus (Feb 16, 2018)

Jen-Hsun Huang made it with his own bare hands, with magic, using rarefied silicon, to save the glorious PC master gaming race.
The Price: Your left kidney.


----------



## yotano211 (Feb 16, 2018)

Aquinus said:


> Jen-Hsun Huang made it with his own bare hands, with magic, using rarefied silicon, to save the glorious PC master gaming race.
> The Price: Your left kidney.


The PC joke gaming race


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 16, 2018)

Fabio said:


> this will be useless. When all the mining cards are gone, miner start buying geforce, and if profittable, maybe less profittlable, they ll buu them all. No mattere how many cards there will be



It wouldn't BE profitable if this performs better.  That is the whole point.  Nature of blockchain.  If they can make these mine with roughly 2x the performance to watt ratio, no one in mining will want a consumer GPU.  Period.  Everyone wins.



RejZoR said:


> It's hilarious how everyone is concerned over landfills getting filled with unused crypto cards, but no one has an issue with burning of terawatts of power to calculate meaningless numbers to make money. Which is essentially what cryptocurrency is.



I'm honestly not concerned about either.


----------



## BiggieShady (Feb 16, 2018)




----------



## haxzion (Feb 16, 2018)

Crypto Mining is a disease.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 16, 2018)

haxzion said:


> Crypto Mining is a disease.



What symptoms should I watch for?


----------



## cdawall (Feb 16, 2018)

Captain_Tom said:


> So if Nvidia wanted to, they could take V100 and:
> 
> 1) Cut the amount of HBM down to 6GB, but clock it faster.
> 2) Remove the tensor cores and manufacture these cards on 16nm (instead of the more expensive 12nm).
> ...



He would have to outperform bitmains rumored ASIC for ethash which can push 650MH/s for 750w. Focus on Ethash is idiotic, a lot of the higher dollar algos are not ethash


----------



## Vya Domus (Feb 16, 2018)

R-T-B said:


> What symptoms should I watch for?



Greed , sudden urge to make a quick buck , the mirage that one day you'll get filthy rich , etc. However those are symptoms of being a human being in the modem world , I'd say mining isn't a disease but actually a symptom of that.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 16, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Greed , sudden urge to make a quick buck , the mirage that one day you'll get filthy rich , etc. However those are symptoms of being a human being in the modem world , I'd say mining isn't a disease but actually a symptom of that.



Great, I'm fine then.


----------



## bug (Feb 16, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Greed , sudden urge to make a quick buck , the mirage that one day you'll get filthy rich , etc. However those are symptoms of being a human being _in the modem world_ , I'd say mining isn't a disease but actually a symptom of that.


Yeah, because in the old days people dreamt of being poor. Or at least, they dreamt of working in the (actual) mines to make a living


----------



## Diverge (Feb 16, 2018)

I don't see this making much of a difference. There are already mining specific cards, and but good luck finding them. To make mining specific cards successful they'd need to take control of the products, and sell them directly from nvidia's store to prevent price gouging. Otherwise miners will just keep buying the whatever gives the most hash/cost.

If they want to change the game, they should develop a whole new system to replace the normal desktop PC motherboard systems. Make a new main motherboard (not ATX spec), and a new gpu card layout that makes it easier and more efficient to pack more compute hardware in smaller spaces, with better cooling, more control, and easier management. Similar to what they do for their scalable compute stuff. Then maybe you can separate the mining rigs from the gaming rigs. But that would likely cost too much money.... but they could save gamers that way if they were really concerned... but we know that all that matters to corporations is money and shareholders, which makes miners buying up all the gaming cards good for business - it's capitalism at work.


----------



## Captain_Tom (Feb 16, 2018)

cdawall said:


> He would have to outperform bitmains rumored ASIC for ethash which can push 650MH/s for 750w. Focus on Ethash is idiotic, a lot of the higher dollar algos are not ethash



Link?   I have not heard of this.   

If this is really true, I will stop paying attention to Turing and prepare for all-Monero mining...



Diverge said:


> I don't see this making much of a difference. There are already mining specific cards, and but good luck finding them. To make mining specific cards successful they'd need to take control of the products, and sell them directly from nvidia's store to prevent price gouging. Otherwise miners will just keep buying the whatever gives the most hash/cost.
> 
> If they want to change the game, they should develop a whole new system to replace the normal desktop PC motherboard systems. Make a new main motherboard (not ATX spec), and a new gpu card layout that makes it easier and more efficient to pack more compute hardware in smaller spaces, with better cooling, more control, and easier management. Similar to what they do for their scalable compute stuff. Then maybe you can separate the mining rigs from the gaming rigs. But that would likely cost too much money.... but they could save gamers that way if they were really concerned... but we know that all that matters to corporations is money and shareholders, which makes miners buying up all the gaming cards good for business - it's capitalism at work.



That's basically what I think too:  

1) Nvidia _could_ make some excellent mining hardware if they really wanted to, and it would essentially save PC gaming (or at least make it so cards are only 20% above MSRP lol).  Heck if they wrote official mining drivers (with real effort) they could probably boost their cards substantially.

2) But at the same time it would be somewhat risky unless they really put in the effort to make an architecture that truly is at least 2x as good at *every *mining algorithm, and not just one or two of the (currently) popular ones.   However I doubt they would put that much effort into this considering the numerous easy mistakes they could make.   

3) In reality, I think a "Turing" mining architecture is most likely to be a version of Volta with less RAM, less ROP's, and no Tensor cores.  That's it, and it will only be useful for under a year...


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 16, 2018)

Captain_Tom said:


> Link?   I have not heard of this.



You don't need a link, you simply need to type some numbers in a calculator.

For 1080's for example, ethhash is a terrible choice.  Equihash is much better.



Captain_Tom said:


> But at the same time it would be somewhat risky unless they really put in the effort to make an architecture that truly is at least 2x as good at *every *mining algorithm, and not just one or two of the (currently) popular ones.   However I doubt they would put that much effort into this considering the numerous easy mistakes they could make.



That is what is needed, and I too am pretty much a skeptic that that's what we'll get.  I think you are spot on with 3.


----------



## yotano211 (Feb 16, 2018)

haxzion said:


> Crypto Mining is a disease.


You seem to be suffering from the mad angry gamer disease.


----------



## Casecutter (Feb 16, 2018)

Captain_Tom said:


> Nvidia _could_ make some excellent mining hardware if they really wanted to, and it would essentially save PC gaming (or at least make it so cards are only 20% above MSRP lol).


But there's the crux of the issue why use their limited production in wafers sullied on market that only provides "X" amount ROI (Gaming).  When right now there's a market the has ability to provide "XXX" obscene ROI, while no sponsoring gaming houses, always fixing or creating drivers (though that wouldn't totally go away).  

Again they/any smart executive would make a about-face on the PC Gaming Industry in a Heart-Beat, if they _could!  _
And with the reduce volume they'd hold to supply gaming, it would still mean high(er) MSRP for what is offered.


----------



## Captain_Tom (Feb 16, 2018)

Casecutter said:


> But there's the crux of the issue why use their limited production in wafers sullied on market that only provides "X" amount ROI (Gaming).  When right now there's a market the has ability to provide "XXX" obscene ROI, while no sponsoring gaming houses, always fixing or creating drivers (though that wouldn't totally go away).
> 
> Again they/any smart executive would make a about-face on the PC Gaming Industry in a Heart-Beat, if they _could!  _
> And with the reduce volume they'd hold to supply gaming, it would still mean high(er) MSRP for what is offered.



Oh I agree there is a ton of _potential_ for immense profits if they handle this right, but from my perspective this can only go well  if they either 1) do the bare minimum, or 2) go ALL in on making this a full mining architecture.

Furthermore I think everyone here should watch this video:










1) In his analysis it starts to become pretty clear that around HALF of Nvidia's current profits in desktop gaming cards are coming from crypto!  *HALF!*

2) Even funnier, is the fact that Nvidia's crypto revenue seems to have accelerated immensely right around when AMD cards were completely out of stock.

3) Nvidia even goes on to say that they believe they can force more GDDR from manufacturers because of "How much bigger they are than AMD."   This is an important claim they are making too, important because AMD said they could produce 20% more GPU's if they could just get a hold of RAM.


So yeah I hope Nvidia can figure out a way to make a powerful mining arch that can be manufactured with alternative facilities to the ones foundries currently employ for gaming cards, and also that it actually has legs and can mine EVERYTHING best.  But they better be careful because there are multiple wrong moves they could make that would cut there income down by incredible amounts over night...


----------



## Casecutter (Feb 16, 2018)

Captain_Tom said:


> In his analysis it starts to become pretty clear that around HALF of Nvidia's current profits in desktop gaming cards are coming from crypto! *HALF!*


 That's a weird statement as then that's saying the other half of their Gaming GPU's are still being purchased by "non-mining" community even though and grossly inflate prices... that's not believable!  Unless that's the volume through OEM's, Discrete card on the GP107 and below and their website, but those aren't where I'd say they see half the profit.  While how can they actually even know that? 

Again it boils down to...Is there foundries that can produce complex GPU silicone right now today, that's sitting with idle capacity?


----------



## efikkan (Feb 16, 2018)

Interesting…, using the guy famous for the video about AMD's "master plan" as a source.
There is no evidence supporting that half of Nvidia's profits in the consumer market is due to mining. Keep in mind that inflated prices at retailers doesn't affect Nvidia's profits.

Most GPUs are not sold at extremely inflated prices. Firstly, the problem is localized. Secondly, even though many of the cards in stock are overpriced, doesn't meant the larger volume are sold at these prices. Popular products have large backorders, and might ship hundreds or thousands every week even if it appears to remain "sold out" for months.

The theory of a "mining shortage" fails due to AMD's claim of memory shortage. Cards are not assembled by Nvidia or AMD, but by makers such as Foxconn on behalf of AIBs. AMD GPUs are still more favorable for mining, which should lead AIBs to prioritize AMD GPUs in the event of memory shortages, but since they are prioritizing Nvidia, it becomes apparent that the primary cause is non-mining.

Additionally, keep in mind the increased demand for data centers and AI also increases the demand for high-end consumer products. Not all development and research is done on Titans and Teslas, many companies and institutions do development on high-end consumer products to save money. GTX 1080 Ti have sold incredibly well for a high-end model, and it's certainly not due to mining.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 22, 2018)

efikkan said:


> AMD GPUs are still more favorable for mining



Only in reputation.

NVIDIA has actually been better for making money this go around.


----------



## Captain_Tom (Feb 22, 2018)

R-T-B said:


> Only in reputation.
> 
> NVIDIA has actually been better for making money this go around.



I will say that is complete BS.    The only advantage Nvidia has (besides Volta lol)  is a 1070 at stock settings are more efficient than AMD.   But if you tweak AMD cards heavily, they completely smash Nvidia.

-My $500 Vega cards do 47.2 MH/s Ethereum + 1100  Pascal dual mining.  That is the equivalent of 2.5 1070's!
-My $120 R9 380's do 23 MH/s.  That's as good as a 1060 that would cost at least 2x as much (And it's 28nm lol)
-And of course RX 580's mine as well as 1070's if properly tweaked.

There is a reason RX 580's eventually started selling for the same price as 1070's, and in general AMD cards sold out WAY before Nvida...


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 22, 2018)

Captain_Tom said:


> But if you tweak AMD cards heavily, they completely smash Nvidia.


That is dependent on the card and how much it gets "tweaked". Running cards bog standard, Nvidia is the better choice. Fairly certain that's what R-T-B was getting at.


Captain_Tom said:


> AMD cards sold out WAY before Nvidia...


That is because fewer of them were/are being made, not because they're more popular.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 22, 2018)

Captain_Tom said:


> I will say that is complete BS.    The only advantage Nvidia has (besides Volta lol)  is a 1070 at stock settings are more efficient than AMD.   But if you tweak AMD cards heavily, they completely smash Nvidia.
> 
> -My $500 Vega cards do 47.2 MH/s Ethereum + 1100  Pascal dual mining.  That is the equivalent of 2.5 1070's!
> -My $120 R9 380's do 23 MH/s.  That's as good as a 1060 that would cost at least 2x as much (And it's 28nm lol)
> ...



There is also a reason they are cheaper and that is their energy consumption.  Pascal is much more efficient.  Heck, they even hold the ethereum mining crown with the Titan V.  And with less energy.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 22, 2018)

R-T-B said:


> There is also a reason they are cheaper and that is their energy consumption.  Pascal is much more efficient.  Heck, they even hold the ethereum mining crown with the Titan V.  And with less energy.


Those are good points too. And that's not to say that Radeon's aren't good, because they are. It's just that NVidia has the absolute performance edge, tier for tier.


----------



## Captain_Tom (Feb 22, 2018)

R-T-B said:


> There is also a reason they are cheaper and that is their energy consumption.  Pascal is much more efficient.  Heck, they even hold the ethereum mining crown with the Titan V.  And with less energy.



It's not.  My RX 570's are pulling ~110w just like 1060's do, and Vega has been _proven _by numerous sources to be the most efficient card you can buy (Besides Volta that costs 6x as much lol).   You can undervolt AMD Buddy, and AMD traditionally responds WAY better to undervolting than Nvidia.

Again let's look at my highly overclocked Vega's that pull ~310w: They have 1.5x the hashing power an overclocked 180w 1070 has in Ethereum, and then they are _also_ mining Pascal as well as another 1070 at the same time!   That is substantially more efficient than Nvidia's most efficient mining card, and I could clock them lower for much better efficiency if I wanted to.


Now Volta is more efficient, but it's also a lowly-clocked 12nm card with a 73% larger die size!   Of course it is better in Ethereum mining (and still worse in cryptonight)!  It also costs substantially more to produce and buy.    Nvidia would be wise to make a for-mining architecture so they don't lose sizable amounts of income if AMD cards ever come back in stock in sufficient numbers.


----------



## R-T-B (Feb 22, 2018)

Captain_Tom said:


> It's not.  My RX 570's are pulling ~110w just like 1060's do, and Vega has been _proven _by numerous sources to be the most efficient card you can buy (Besides Volta that costs 6x as much lol).   You can undervolt AMD Buddy, and AMD traditionally responds WAY better to undervolting than Nvidia.
> 
> Again let's look at my highly overclocked Vega's that pull ~310w: They have 1.5x the hashing power an overclocked 180w 1070 has in Ethereum, and then they are _also_ mining Pascal as well as another 1070 at the same time!   That is substantially more efficient than Nvidia's most efficient mining card, and I could clock them lower for much better efficiency if I wanted to.
> 
> ...



I guess I should admit that when I made that statement, I was considering the AMD stock situation.  Harder to get AMD at msrp than even nvidia.

I learned a few things though, not being a amd miner myself.  Have a thanks.


----------



## cdawall (Feb 22, 2018)

Captain_Tom said:


> I will say that is complete BS.    The only advantage Nvidia has (besides Volta lol)  is a 1070 at stock settings are more efficient than AMD.   But if you tweak AMD cards heavily, they completely smash Nvidia.
> 
> -My $500 Vega cards do 47.2 MH/s Ethereum + 1100  Pascal dual mining.  That is the equivalent of 2.5 1070's!
> -My $120 R9 380's do 23 MH/s.  That's as good as a 1060 that would cost at least 2x as much (And it's 28nm lol)
> ...



You mind showing your Vega card doing 47.2+1100 pascal sustained for any period of time?

and my 1060's ran $140-150 USD and use less than half the power those 380's do...


----------



## Captain_Tom (Feb 22, 2018)

R-T-B said:


> I guess I should admit that when I made that statement, I was considering the AMD stock situation.  Harder to get AMD at msrp than even nvidia.
> 
> I learned a few things though, not being a amd miner myself.  Have a thanks.



It's fine brah, there's a lot misinformation out there.  In fact a lot of it is intentional, like many people who still don't share their Tricks to make Vega into basically a mining ASIC lol.  If everyone knew, the network difficulty would go up.

AMD cards went out of stock, and _then _Nvidia cards went out of stock because people wanted anything they could get.   The one thing I will say is that the GTX 1070 @$350 was a solid competitor if you were doing large-scale mining.  They would do ~28 MH/s out of the box and consume slightly less energy than a stock RX 580.  That's important if you are setting up 1000 cards and don't have time to tweak them.  But the second the 1070 got close to 1.5-2x the price of an RX 580, it made absolutely no sense.

Heck even right now I just built yet another rig - it is 3 x RX 560's, and 3 x used R9 290's.    After Bios mods the $150 RX 560's are all pulling 14.5 MH/s @ 60w, and the $275 28nm R9 290's are doing 29 MH/s @ 185w.  That's not bad pal!    People are crazy to pay $500 for a 1070 or 580 lol.



cdawall said:


> You mind showing your Vega card doing 47.2+1100 pascal sustained for any period of time?
> 
> and my 1060's ran $140-150 USD and use less than half the power those 380's do...



1) So for some reason Nanopool's Pascal servers are under maintenance or something, but I can show you what I do when not dual mining.   48 MH/s should shut up the nay-sayers lol, and I would be happy to show my dual mining whenever the Pascal servers are back up.  So message me later for that if you want.


2) Brag all you want about your 1060's, but my point still stands.  I paid less money than you a LONG time ago to get the same hashrate.   Those R9 380's aren't as good as the 1060, but I wouldn't brag about a substantially newer 16nm card narrowly beating Tonga on 28nm lol.

Man it really never ceases to amuse me when people can't believe the performance of AMD cards.  They are _almost_ _always_ the stupidly better choice for people who are good at tweaking hardware, and care about price/perf.   Nvidia remains the brand both for people with money in need of burning, and for those who just don't have a lot of hardware knowledge.   Not trying to pick a fight with that last statement either, facts are facts as I have shown with my $500 card putting out 48 MH/s...


----------



## yotano211 (Feb 22, 2018)

Captain_Tom said:


> It's not.  My RX 570's are pulling ~110w just like 1060's do, and Vega has been _proven _by numerous sources to be the most efficient card you can buy (Besides Volta that costs 6x as much lol).   You can undervolt AMD Buddy, and AMD traditionally responds WAY better to undervolting than Nvidia.
> 
> Again let's look at my highly overclocked Vega's that pull ~310w: They have 1.5x the hashing power an overclocked 180w 1070 has in Ethereum, and then they are _also_ mining Pascal as well as another 1070 at the same time!   That is substantially more efficient than Nvidia's most efficient mining card, and I could clock them lower for much better efficiency if I wanted to.
> 
> ...


You must of been one of the lucky ones that got his/her Vega card early in pre order, but I havent seem any Vega cards in stock in months online or at the store. I dont live near any Frys or Micocenter so I cant comment on those stores. Only store near me are stupid best buy and small tech shops. 

Want I am trying to say is that, people buy cards that are in stock or pay 1k for a Vega card, and it also depends on the algorithm you are mining.


----------



## Captain_Tom (Feb 22, 2018)

yotano211 said:


> You must of been one of the lucky ones that got his/her Vega card early in pre order, but I havent seem any Vega cards in stock in months online or at the store. I dont live near any Frys or Micocenter so I cant comment on those stores. Only store near me are stupid best buy and small tech shops.
> 
> Want I am trying to say is that, people buy cards that are in stock or pay 1k for a Vega card, and it also depends on the algorithm you are mining.



Haha yeah I got up early and spammed refresh on multiple monitors to get my Vega cards when I did.   You have to put in the effort if you truly want to succeed at anything, and I totally understand that people are only capable of buying what they have access to or are willing to put in the effort for.

What I really resent though is when people start spreading FUD so they can convince themselves they were "smart" to buy one thing over the other, but in really they simply couldn't buy the best.   *If* all cards were currently at MSRP, almost no informed person would be buying Nvidia for mining.   For instance I am not going to tell people here that my new rig with R9 290's and RX 560's are better at mining than 1060's, but then again they cost less than 1/2 as much and they are honestly pretty close (Or they did, now RX 560's and 290's are sold out too lol).

Vega is the indisputable king at mining by ALL metrics, after that Polaris is the clear choice for price/perf, and even after that 28nm Fury cards are about as good as 16nm Nvidia.  After all of those options are gone: then you buy 1070's, and after that you only should buy 1060's as a last resort.   I cannot fathom why some people have actually convinced themselves 1080 Ti rigs make any sense at all...


----------



## medi01 (Feb 22, 2018)

Poland cracked Enigma.
Turing made it fast using methods unseen in that time.


----------



## cdawall (Feb 23, 2018)

Captain_Tom said:


> It's fine brah, there's a lot misinformation out there.  In fact a lot of it is intentional, like many people who still don't share their Tricks to make Vega into basically a mining ASIC lol.  If everyone knew, the network difficulty would go up.
> 
> AMD cards went out of stock, and _then _Nvidia cards went out of stock because people wanted anything they could get.   The one thing I will say is that the GTX 1070 @$350 was a solid competitor if you were doing large-scale mining.  They would do ~28 MH/s out of the box and consume slightly less energy than a stock RX 580.  That's important if you are setting up 1000 cards and don't have time to tweak them.  But the second the 1070 got close to 1.5-2x the price of an RX 580, it made absolutely no sense.
> 
> ...



I have mixed rigs and could care less on brand. Per dollar I can mine a lot of different algorithms that suck on amd with nvidia for more profits.

I also wouldn't call half the power consumption "narrowly" beating Tonga. That's an improvement and considering the 1060 is a 192 bit card I really don't find it's performance bad at all. I'll pay $30 more a card for half the wattage any day, that makes a huge difference when scaling up. 

All of my 1070's were purchased for under $350 so that might color my vision on them they all also do 32mh/s minus the one Samsung card I have that does 33.

I'm impressed with that vega. I have one it does 42mh/s and pisses me off to the point that it currently sits in my htpc. That's another reason I prefer nvidia. I don't like having to bios mod cards, run a reg edit for a driver to work, enable compute modes, pray the driver doesn't crash, find out the voltage didn't actually set in the bios or config file and have to manage it via software. For ease of use? Nvidia all day.

Not to mention let's go mine neoscrypt, Blake 2s, equihash, lyra2rev2, or any of about half a dozen algorithms other than cryptonight and ethash and watch what the mining looks like. That being said I ordered more 580's and 560's


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## Captain_Tom (Feb 23, 2018)

cdawall said:


> I have mixed rigs and could care less on brand. Per dollar I can mine a lot of different algorithms that suck on amd with nvidia for more profits.
> 
> I also wouldn't call half the power consumption "narrowly" beating Tonga. That's an improvement and considering the 1060 is a 192 bit card I really don't find it's performance bad at all. I'll pay $30 more a card for half the wattage any day, that makes a huge difference when scaling up.
> 
> ...



For Vega I didn't need to modify anything, I just used Wattman and tweaked intensity levels in claymore lol  (But I have always been very good at overclocking).  At $350 those 1070's are ok, but around that time period I was buying 570's that do 29 MH/s for $200.  You think your purchase was smarter?   Again, I only think 1070's were a good choice when they were ~30% more than a 570; and only if you are setting up a lot of them.   Otherwise you would be better off buying *two 570's for the same price.*

Second, those 380's are not using double the energy of your 1060's.  You can BIOS mod and undervolt them to the point that the fans barely even turn on.  Again though, idk why you are bragging about a 2 year newer card kinda beating an old 28nm GCN card.    Sure it's cool you supposedly got them for only 30% more money than I paid, but most people paid $250-$300 for a card that mines the same as something they could have got for less than half the price.  Oh and my cards were mining before the 1060 launched lol, and they still are.

Finally, I am kinda sick of people acting like most of the coins outside of Monero and Ethereum are worth bragging about.  You could argue that most of them are only being mined because they intentionally pander to Nvidia's architecture, and even then they are wholly less profitable than the real coins (especially if you HODL).  Throw in how AMD cards vastly outperform Nvidia's in dual-mining, and it's laughable to suggest Nvidia's cards are anywhere near as profitable. *  Simply put: AMD mines the most profitable coins better, and then they also dual-mine more efficiently as well.*


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## cdawall (Feb 23, 2018)

Captain_Tom said:


> For Vega I didn't need to modify anything, I just used Wattman and tweaked intensity levels in claymore lol  (But I have always been very good at overclocking).  At $350 those 1070's are ok, but around that time period I was buying 570's that do 29 MH/s for $200.  You think your purchase was smarter?   Again, I only think 1070's were a good choice when they were ~30% more than a 570; and only if you are setting up a lot of them.   Otherwise you would be better off buying *two 570's for the same price.*
> 
> Second, those 380's are not using double the energy of your 1060's.  You can BIOS mod and undervolt them to the point that the fans barely even turn on.  Again though, idk why you are bragging about a 2 year newer card kinda beating an old 28nm GCN card.    Sure it's cool you supposedly got them for only 30% more money than I paid, but most people paid $250-$300 for a card that mines the same as something they could have got for less than half the price.  Oh and my cards were mining before the 1060 launched lol, and they still are.
> 
> Finally, I am kinda sick of people acting like most of the coins outside of Monero and Ethereum are worth bragging about.  You could argue that most of them are only being mined because they intentionally pander to Nvidia's architecture, and even then they are wholly less profitable than the real coins (especially if you HODL).  Throw in how AMD cards vastly outperform Nvidia's in dual-mining, and it's laughable to suggest Nvidia's cards are anywhere near as profitable. *  Simply put: AMD mines the most profitable coins better, and then they also dual-mine more efficiently as well.*



I had trouble getting 570/580's when I got the 1070's so per dollar they were quite a bit better purchases for me. Turns out some cards are better than no cards.

$150 vs $130 also isn't 30%  and you can brag on 380's all you want they were never that great of a card. I have had a few myself. There is a reason I sold them.

There are quite a few that would argue this last point.

ZEC, BTG and we can continue from here are quite profitable coins and depending on market values have doubled ethereum on multiple occasions for profitability. Until the crash in December they all exceeded ethereum. "simply put" you are fake news. Nvidia makes a good product so does amd. Benefit for nvidia is it is more power efficient and yet again they are not let down by the driver.

I do like the mention of dual mining though. Which coin do you currently dual mine and how has it responded to the ASIC miners that dropped for everything outside of Blake 2S and keccak?


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## Vlada011 (Feb 24, 2018)

NVIDIA CEO is many things, only not PC Gaming Savior.
With their voltage locked. crippled GPU processors, overpriced... 
He could be called with different names as we can call Devil with different names...
Lucifer, Diablo, Satan, Antichrist ... but Savior No.


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## bug (Feb 24, 2018)

Vlada011 said:


> NVIDIA CEO is many things, only not PC Gaming Savior.
> With their voltage locked. crippled GPU processors, overpriced...
> He could be called with different names as we can call Devil with different names...
> Lucifer, Diablo, Satan, Antichrist ... but Savior No.


Congrats, I think you've just found the proper name for the guy that builds over two thirds of the cards used in gaming rigs.


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## Vlada011 (Feb 25, 2018)

Only company who build 2/3 of GPU could destroy overclocking and increase price to the sky.
Company without such influence is not possible to do that... Are you aware that now you could build Kawasaki Off Road KLX140 144c brand new 2017 model for one Graphic Cards with drivers in gaming.

 section.


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## kastriot (Feb 25, 2018)

This is 111th comment so far..


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## Space Lynx (Feb 27, 2018)

I don't understand why everyone is excited about this. PC Gamer just wrote an article on it today and how it will help bring GPU prices down for gamers... no not at all... Miners will buy all these Turing mining cards until out of stock, and they will also buy all the GPU's until out of stock... best thing Nvidia could have done was pay overtime to its factory workers and crank out as many gpu's possible


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## cdawall (Feb 27, 2018)

lynx29 said:


> I don't understand why everyone is excited about this. PC Gamer just wrote an article on it today and how it will help bring GPU prices down for gamers... no not at all... Miners will buy all these Turing mining cards until out of stock, and they will also buy all the GPU's until out of stock... best thing Nvidia could have done was pay overtime to its factory workers and crank out as many gpu's possible



Nvidia doesn't own the fab, that would be on TSMC


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## userwords (May 7, 2018)

So they still did not realize the fakecurrencias bubble did burst. Just that they are trying to fake it id not to get time to unload the vapormoney unto ingenuous hands to content the massive losses that leads to huge broke. Thank you for polluting like retards to make the nsa work for free bastards also.


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## Space Lynx (May 7, 2018)

cdawall said:


> Nvidia doesn't own the fab, that would be on TSMC



Nvidia has buttloads of billions in profits, they can build their own fab easily, they choose not to.


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## Vya Domus (May 7, 2018)

lynx29 said:


> Nvidia has buttloads of billions in profits, they can build their own fab easily, they choose not to.



You can bet they would if they could, there is no such thing in this industry as "they chose not to".

Unfortunately for Nvidia even their buttloads of cash aren't enough to build/buy a foundry of their own.

In addition  to that even if they would have one , there is no way they would be able to keep going. Companies like TSMC/Samsung pour billions into existing/new facilities each year just so they can remain competitive.


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## Space Lynx (May 7, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> You can bet they would if they could, there is no such thing in this industry as "they chose not to".
> 
> Unfortunately for Nvidia even their buttloads of cash aren't enough to build/buy a foundry of their own.
> 
> In addition  to that even if they would have one , there is no way they would be able to keep going. Companies like TSMC/Samsung pour billions into existing/new facilities each year just so they can remain competitive.



I think it cost Intel 8 billion to build their 7nm foundry in Arizona? Nvidia has what 200 billion in assets, I don't see why they can't... their stock is also at a record high


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## Vya Domus (May 7, 2018)

lynx29 said:


> Nvidia has what 200 billion in assets,



They wish , it's actually just a "mere" 11 billion : https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/...al-results-for-fourth-quarter-and-fiscal-2018 , you may be confusing market cap and total assets.

That being said not even Intel has that much cash , so you can see how the addition of a foundry would likely bury them. AMD didn't ditch their foundry for no reason.


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## Captain_Tom (May 7, 2018)

lynx29 said:


> I think it cost Intel 8 billion to build their 7nm foundry in Arizona? Nvidia has what 200 billion in assets, I don't see why they can't... their stock is also at a record high



They certainly have the money - but the real bottleneck is hire-able talent.  That's why you see all of these engineers constantly jumping ship back and forth between companies: They are the very small handful of people that can actually do these jobs!

However I am guessing Nvidia could pull it off if they wanted to, but it would take a lot of effort in addition to money.


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## Fluffmeister (May 7, 2018)

Nvidia don't want the burden of their own foundry, especially as nodes are shrinking to even more complex levels.

AMD had to spin off their own foundries too, despite Jerry saying "real men have fabs".


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## lexluthermiester (May 8, 2018)

Vya Domus said:


> Unfortunately for Nvidia even their buttloads of cash aren't enough to build/buy a foundry of their own.


Incorrect, Nvidia used to owned their own foundry's. They chose to contract with TSMC because it allowed them better flexibility in the market.


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## cdawall (May 8, 2018)

lynx29 said:


> Nvidia has buttloads of billions in profits, they can build their own fab easily, they choose not to.


You drug up a multiple month old thread to be flat out wrong?


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## Space Lynx (May 8, 2018)

cdawall said:


> You drug up a multiple month old thread to be flat out wrong?



I never bumped this thread actually. Get your facts straight.

Also, I like Vya's post when he clarified for me how much money Nvidia actually makes, and I did not post again until you called me out just now, but sure thing mate, you got all your facts straight about me.


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## cdawall (May 8, 2018)

lynx29 said:


> I never bumped this thread actually. Get your facts straight.
> 
> Also, I like Vya's post when he clarified for me how much money Nvidia actually makes, and I did not post again until you called me out just now, but sure thing mate, you got all your facts straight about me.



I apologize guy above you bumped a month's old thread, then you posted incorrect information.  my bad


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