# WTF is that noise?



## Easy Rhino (Dec 29, 2015)

Whenever I move my mouse when the volume of the speakers is turned up I hear a whine. WTF?


----------



## Ferrum Master (Dec 29, 2015)

Easy Rhino said:


> Whenever I move my mouse when the volume of the speakers is turned up I hear a whine. WTF?



Hello brother...

Those are fine boards we both have, ain't it . I had few in my life.

Solutions.

Disable speed step.
Disable CPU VRM eco modes, like disabling phases in idle.
Set the mouse on lowest polling rate at 250.

Well mouse has a special thing... a low level irq request that overrides everything and wakes up everything. It causes such audiable fluctations in coils... and it resonates everywhere . If the supply ripple filtering is poor... it also winds through the audio... my current board does that at heavy OC. The noise comes from CPU vrm coils... I had a board that does this at stock and also in speakers via integrated audio... lol

You will have to swap the board to mend it.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 29, 2015)

Ferrum Master said:


> Hello brother...
> 
> Those are fine boards we both have, ain't it . I had few in my life.
> 
> ...



Thanks. How do I set the polling rate? Can't find much info...


----------



## qubit (Dec 29, 2015)

Ferrum Master said:


> Hello brother...
> 
> Those are fine boards we both have, ain't it . I had few in my life.
> 
> ...


Jeez, that's one helluvannoying problem  and I've never seen this before, either.

Hope you get it under control Easy, even without changing the mobo.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Dec 30, 2015)

Easy Rhino said:


> Thanks. How do I set the polling rate? Can't find much info...



If the mouse is non gaming... it should be at the slowest setting already... you will have to use other options.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 30, 2015)

Ferrum Master said:


> If the mouse is non gaming... it should be at the slowest setting already... you will have to use other options.



i think the fact this is an old MB means it sucks for audio


----------



## Ferrum Master (Dec 30, 2015)

Well... you sure you have muted every possible recording in?

And yes... USB sound may be a solution...

Btw have you tried to distance the speakers... the audio signal cable away from the radio source via different route?

If it is old just disable the C states... even C1... the CPU will run on max... at least try if it works for you too.


----------



## uuuaaaaaa (Dec 30, 2015)

Try to use Audacity to record the sound! (Maybe plug your line out to the line in? not sure if this will work or brick anything...)


----------



## qubit (Dec 30, 2015)

Perhaps try a soundcard in it and see if the noise goes away? I'd suggest a better quality model rather than an ultracheap as it's likely to have better interference suppression.

I know that people swear at Creative soundcards due to driver problems, but I've been lucky and never had a problem with them, plus the old X-Fi cards sound great.


----------



## AsRock (Dec 30, 2015)

I have had it once before i just used a different sound card, saying it's the same thing but sounds like it. Although when i have had it it was really low and only noticed it when the sound was turned up fairly high.

all so other things could be doing it too like speakers near the mouse or a phone near to the speaker and mouse.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 30, 2015)

Just updated my specs. Forgot to show that I have a 24bit PCI creative card in there.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 30, 2015)

I disabled the C state crap in BIOS and that "seems" to have removed the whine. I will know more tomorrow because I can't crank it out tonight without waking my kids...


----------



## Iceni (Dec 30, 2015)

Sounds like you have some floating ground problems. 

Try a different USB for the mouse. An isolated one using one of the internal connectors may work.

Also try a different power outlet for the whole PC. If the ground is floating and a different socket stops the problem then I would have someone look at the offending outlet.

The other thing it might be is feedback from any amplifiers that the sound card is plugged into. If the amp is boosting it's input lines that could feedback through the PC. An audio ground loop isolator would fix this.


----------



## DarthBaggins (Dec 30, 2015)

This is where I'm glad I route my audio through my Marantz receiver (my Rotel is up in storage at the moment)

But sounds like a bad ground in the port you're using


----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 30, 2015)

Thanks. Just took a chance and cranked it and the whine is still there despite BIOS settings. That does make me think I have some sort of crap grounding going on. Will experiment and report back.
Edit: just checked the SPDIF line out to a headset and no noise at all. thinking the aux out to the receiver is bad.


----------



## Zakin (Dec 30, 2015)

Easy Rhino said:


> Thanks. Just took a chance and cranked it and the whine is still there despite BIOS settings. That does make me think I have some sort of crap grounding going on. Will experiment and report back.
> Edit: just checked the SPDIF line out to a headset and no noise at all. thinking the aux out to the receiver is bad.


Not surprised, SPDIF carries digital that is then converted on the other side, where as AUX is already throwing analogue trash from your motherboard most likely.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 30, 2015)

Zakin said:


> Not surprised, SPDIF carries digital that is then converted on the other side, where as AUX is already throwing analogue trash from your motherboard most likely.



Would a better aux cable make any difference? The one I am using now is pretty old and I think I got it from Radio Shack back in 2006...


----------



## Zakin (Dec 30, 2015)

I wouldn't bet on it, I'm really betting the trash is on the inside of the motherboard, meaning a better shielded cable would just maintain the signal more efficiently. You'd be throwing a tarp over the trash basically. Analogue cables don't work like digital cables unfortunately. They don't hear a clean signal at the start.


----------



## Iceni (Dec 30, 2015)

Try an isolator on it, You can get them pretty cheap $10 perhaps even less on ebay. 

If it's analogue signal then yes but with severe diminishing returns. Gold plated connections and Oxygen free cables is about as expensive as I would go. I wouldn't bother with plated cables on a disposable cable.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 30, 2015)

It's not just his board.  I've noticed a slight whine when my video card revs up on my onboard audio on my modern gigabyte board.  It seems it's possible to happen on any board, and it's a really painful issue once noticed.  Fortunately, rather than RMA my entire mobo, I just switched to the DAC in my monitor via HDMI.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 30, 2015)

i've had this before with shit motherboards too. its basically electrical noise. most of the systems were intel based and cleared up when disabling various power saving CPU features, but overall it just made me move on from those systems asap.


----------



## Jetster (Dec 30, 2015)

radio interference


----------



## Solaris17 (Dec 30, 2015)

Iceni said:


> Sounds like you have some floating ground problems.
> 
> Try a different USB for the mouse. An isolated one using one of the internal connectors may work.
> 
> ...



im almost certain this is the issue. grounding or isolation, iv had this before and only fixed it by changing the board.


----------



## DarthBaggins (Dec 30, 2015)

Have you tried a different cable to connect to your Receiver?  Does it change if you rotate the input/output, if so that's a bad/loose connector or bad ground/connection in the 3.5mm connector.  Also what kind of setup is this being connected to  (Receiver/All in one powered desktop speaker set/etc)?


----------



## OneMoar (Dec 30, 2015)

install a active ground loop isolator and get some ferrite chokes


----------



## Vayra86 (Dec 30, 2015)

Use a grounded wall socket for your power supply, it can remove the issue. This is a common issue with laptops. I will never forget the dozens of laptop DJ"s that came onto my club floor/gig with crappy junky onboard sound, plugged it in analog, and amplified this 'annoying little whine' through a couple thousand Watts of amp.

It can also help to have a separate wall socket for your sound system and your PC. Beyond that, it is interference from the MB / power current changes throughout the PC and bad shielding on the MB. Yes you can/could solve the issue with a dedicated sound card, or you can just start thinking about a MB upgrade, recent hardware barely has this issue anymore.


----------



## Jetster (Dec 30, 2015)

Just try moving the PC to another room in the house and see if it stops


----------



## jboydgolfer (Dec 30, 2015)

i used to  get this too, then i got a steelseries sensei and viola! the whine...She's a  gone. All other components the same , just the mouse made it better. hope it works for you.

Also iirc, plugging my Headset, into the Rear headers fixed it too for me, or using the GPU's built in audio also did it, only spdif, and on front panel gave Me the issue, i dont know if its the same for You though. but You certainly arent alone with having heard it .


----------



## Vayra86 (Dec 30, 2015)

jboydgolfer said:


> i used to  get this too, then i got a steelseries sensei and viola! the whine...She's a  gone. All other components the same , just the mouse made it better. hope it works for you.
> 
> Also iirc, plugging my Headset, into the Rear headers fixed it too for me, or using the GPU's built in audio also did it, only spdif, and on front panel gave Me the issue, i dont know if its the same for You though. but You certainly arent alone with having heard it .



Correct. If it's static from the power current running through the MB, using rear ports can remove the issue, using digital outs can do the job too, and using USB mouse can also have an effect. Another funny side effect that may occur with this, is that you can hear the mouse movement more whenever there is more white/bright area on your screen. Odd but true.

Analog audio signal + power currents just don't like each other.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Dec 30, 2015)

Vayra86 said:


> Analog audio signal + power currents just don't like each other.



Everything is fine... if the manufacturers would not cheap out on layers and filtering each sub rail with chokes and CLC sections... They feed the audio section directly and rely on the RTL DAC's power supply ripple rejection ratio... there would not be such issues if it would be done nicely... It is the thing that seldom who actually catches... most of people are just deaf .


----------



## RejZoR (Dec 30, 2015)

Maybe something like this:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-jitterbug-usb-noise-filter


----------



## Ferrum Master (Dec 30, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> Maybe something like this:
> http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-jitterbug-usb-noise-filter



Snake oil... Take a ferrite choke and twist the mouse wire... same result. Actually the article says in the conlusion this thing has no effect


----------



## jboydgolfer (Dec 30, 2015)

Vayra86 said:


> Another funny side effect that may occur with this, is that you can hear the mouse movement more whenever there is more white/bright area on your screen. Odd but true.



Correct, which is why MOST complaints of this issue stem from, or are referenced as occurring during web browsing....e.g. when down or up scrolling on youtube for instance, or any other seemingly infinite number of websites.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 30, 2015)

Which cables should I run through the ferrit choke?

UPDATE: I have determined that the whine is from the LEDs in the mechanical keyboard. Turning off the LEDs eliminates the constant whine. Now, when I move the mouse it makes the noise so not sure what to do about that. I also notice it does pick up slightly the SSD when it is busy loading.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Dec 30, 2015)

Easy Rhino said:


> Which cables should I run through the ferrit choke?



You can put any of them... Father Tesla told us that every loop may induce something especially in the frequency spectrum we live in nowdays...

Haven't you noticed that high quality equipment, especially Japanese have those ferrite bubbles at the ends everywhere?

PS.

I just killed Hilbert at Guru3d sound card review comment section, he accused me of being rude , I feel bad now... and he banned me lol 

UPDATE:

The SSD causes whine in CPU rails... that's a different story. But the Keyboard... It has their own pwm circuit that gets into your speakers?

Try feeding the keyboard from elsewhere. Monitor Hub? Or something like that.


----------



## RejZoR (Dec 30, 2015)

Ferrum Master said:


> Snake oil... Take a ferrite choke and twist the mouse wire... same result. Actually the article says in the conlusion this thing has no effect
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 70521 View attachment 70522



I said "something like this", not "this". The whole point is to either dissipate the noise through heat (ferrite choke) or by isolating it through double transformers where each end is physically separated. Or just by having a layer of components that filter the noise. 

Considering it's an "audiophile" webpage they were expecting magical improvement of audio, but this might actually fix the issue this user is having.


----------



## Vayra86 (Dec 30, 2015)

Holy crap, you even hear the SSD loading. That is like what. 1 watt of draw? Shitty MB is shitty 

@FerrumMaster I think you just scored a few hundred points with me. Linky linky please to Hilberts' rage? I have some popcorn here.
EDIT: nvm I think I found it already


----------



## Ferrum Master (Dec 30, 2015)

Vayra86 said:


> Holy crap, you even hear the SSD loading. That is like what. 1 watt of draw?



Actually 3W... but the thing is when it happens it usually means heavy processing, the CPU ramps up and down and thus funny noises come out of the rails... well the swing from CPU idle to max when overclocked is around 150W, well it produces some noise, like pain


----------



## Vayra86 (Dec 30, 2015)

Ah I see. Didn't know that.

By the way, the popcorn is nice, and Hilbert is being very Hilbert, I'm inclined to side with your view on that review. His GPU reviews are also getting close to the level of 'oh boy, nice product, because yeah, nice, looks good' without any basis for it. I tend to avoid them actually  How the F can you review a sound card on the basis of the set of speakers you are listening to it?! LOL. Not being very proud of my fellow Dutchman here... But hey, its for PC gamers who don't care, luckily... that comment made my pants fall off.

But anyway, offtopic


----------



## RejZoR (Dec 30, 2015)

Just remembered something from the audiophile world. You may want to check the grounding of your PC. Devices that aren't grounded properly tend to to this kind of shit. Check your wall socket if it has a functional ground, then the computer cable leading from wall socket to PC. From there on, things should be grounded as is in a standard PC.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Dec 30, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> Just remembered something from the audiophile world. You may want to check the grounding of your PC. Devices that aren't grounded properly tend to to this kind of shit. Check your wall socket if it has a functional ground, then the computer cable leading from wall socket to PC. From there on, things should be grounded as is in a standard PC.



As a european fellow, those forums also told you about differences in between grounding and earthing and bonding.  People often mess up so badly(they actually don't really know if really at home the wiring is set up properly, and do something bad).

I don't have a ground/earth at my home at all. Bonding devices causes troubles, as some devices push some voltage via Y caps to earth. Thus sparks, cracks etc things occur as other devices pick it up. For audio equipment I usually cut them of from the grounding...

One more thing... nobody uses proper audio cables, a lost art in the 70ties lol... it has to have 4 pins actually. L, R, audio ground and shield. Shield, the wire net must be connected only at one side of the device, usually the amplifier... not connected togheter with the source thus creating a hum loop... for some sensitive high gain stages it helps to reduce such interference problems.

More on that topic and also a mess...

http://www.rane.com/note151.html

But this time it is more fun. We cannot pin out where the noise starts. In audio IC part or the speaker setup via audio cable...


----------



## Easy Rhino (Dec 30, 2015)

i guess for now the simple low cost solution is to get a spdif y splitter and connect the coax spdif output on the sound card to the mixamp for my headset and one to the receiver for the speakers.


----------



## DarthBaggins (Dec 31, 2015)

That sounds like a decent solution, as long as it fixes the issue at hand


----------

