# Regarding 7.1 headsets and their performace



## Prima.Vera (Nov 12, 2016)

Hello guys,

Just wanted some professional opinion on regarding buying (or not) a 7.1 headset for games and movies.
I am only asking because I've read a couple of reviews, but none of them were CLEARLY specifying if the 3D positioning is there like on a 7.1 real environment or is just a crappy surround...
I know there are a lot oh good headsets in the market ranging from 50 to 500 bucs, however I am more interested of how exactly is the sound positioned on a 7.1 setup by using only left/right headset speaker?

Anyone got a good experience with this?

Thank you very much in advance.


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## Dethroy (Nov 12, 2016)

I've tried several 5.1 & 7.1 headsets (a friend of mine is running his own business and sells hardware; but I never bought one myself) and so far none was able to impress me. I get far more enjoyment out of good stereo headphones with Dolby Headphone.

Pretty sure that is not the answer that you likely wanted to hear. But nevertheless this is what my experience with surround sound looked like.


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## Kursah (Nov 12, 2016)

If you want 7.1, then you should have a 7.1 sound system.

With that said, most headsets use 2 speakers and software emulation to give you their claimed 7.1 sound. Some actually do maintain decent sound...but I prefer good stereo quality myself. For movies, games and music. Good stereo imaging will help with positioning, though I don't play competitively so I might not be the best one to suggest.

I also do prefer a real pair of headphones over gaming headsets and using a desktop mic. I really enjoy my Massdrop AKG K553 Pro's + Aune T1 Mk1 + Samson GoMic...excellent combo! I use it for all my audio needs...in Windows I use EqualizerAPO + PeaceUI for a 32-band EQ to tune my sound how I want it. I've tried the emulated audio...and expensive gaming headsets...but I always go back to my headphones.

Are you looking purely for positional accuracy or does sound quality matter? Do you prefer bass or not? Do you prefer detail or speed? Over ear or on-ear? Portable vs. full size?

Hopefully we can give you some good suggestions, or at least more info to research so you can make a good decisions! 

Edit: Also feel free to review the TPU Headphone/Headset thread in my sig...the OP has some reviews dating back a long time now...but there are reviews scattered throughout the pages of that thread...plus TPU has headphone reviews as well that FrederikS does an excellent job with!


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## Filip Georgievski (Nov 12, 2016)

Gaming headsets are nothing too fancy in terms of sound quality.
7.1 surround gaming headsets are just a marketing thing in my experience.
You would be better of buying full size pro sound headset from JBL, SONY, AKG or some other known and respected brand.
Sony's budget lineup of headsets that cost not more than 25€ or 30$ deliver more better sound quality than for ex. Steelseries 7.1 headset that costs more than 50€.


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## Prima.Vera (Nov 12, 2016)

Thank you for the updates. 
Personally I could never understand why and how a stereo headset can be marketed as a 5.1 or 7.1... Initially I was unde the impression that 1 speaker contains actually  multiple speaker arranged in that way that the ear could distinguish between front/side/rear without any software tricks.
And naturally, I love deep bass, clear sound of professional speakers, however those are above 200$.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 12, 2016)

There is just no way they can get the full spatial separation with headphones. The biggest problem is we use both our ears to pinpoint ("triangulate" on) the location of sounds. While a surround sound headset can simulate left rear sound in the right side, it can only simulate it. And no matter how good that simulation is, that left rear sound is still coming from the sides of your head.

This simulation process does provide some discernable separation, but IMO, it is not realistic. And if it is not realistic then it is not the "faithful reproduction" of the original source. And if it is not the faithful reproduction of the original source, then it not "high fidelity".


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## jboydgolfer (Nov 12, 2016)

I think they get away with marketing headsets as 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound using the qualifier "synthetic".

 But I may very well be wrong


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## Dethroy (Nov 12, 2016)

It's simple physics. Two big speakers vs several tiny speakers... What's more likely to sound better? Analogue to: two big floor speakers or several tiny satellite speakers?


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 12, 2016)

Dethroy said:


> It's simple physics. Two big speakers vs several tiny speakers... What's more likely to sound better? Analogue to: two big floor speakers or several tiny satellite speakers?


Not really - at least not for this topic. Physics sure plays into it, but not really in the way implied here -except for LFE (low frequency effects). Sure, sound is all about sound pressure levels and larger speakers can move a lot more air. But tiny speakers just an inch or two from your ear and when confined inside such a tiny space don't have to move a lot of air to reproduce quality sound.

But this topic is about "_surround_" sound and surround sound is about the number and placement of those speakers - not their size.


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## Kursah (Nov 12, 2016)

There are some multi drivers headsets out there still...I had some Turtle Beach HPA2 5.1 that had 6 drivers per cup. At first I though it was cool...but the tiny speakers and small space didn't make it sound nearly as good as I thought when compared to some decent quality stereo headphones..at the time.$35 JVC ha-rx 700. 

The HPA2s were okay for sound...and did pretty good at basic positioning which worked for gaming I suppose ..but compared to software emulation now-a-days its no better and I believe its getting pretty rare to buy a gaming headset with a handful of drivers shoved in each cup. Good stereo imaging plus some software tuning has proven equally or more effective at tricking our ears...I still can't tolerate it for long. 

Though that said and a few years ago...multi driver items became a big hit and I know a few brands do multi driver headphones for added bass by adding a subwoofer type driver like the JVC SZ2000. These are obviously different in goal from surround sound though.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 12, 2016)

You still cannot have "surround" sound headphones with just one driver/speaker per side - even with the best software emulation. IMO, all those software emulation programs do is simulate the "venue". That is, the attempt to make it seem you are in a philharmonic concert hall, football stadium, the Hollywood Bowl, or plain old sound stage.

This is still different from listening to a recording that was recorded using discrete, surround sound microphones.


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## Kursah (Nov 12, 2016)

There's also perception and audible tolerance and preference that go hand in hand with what I may enjoy versus you or anyone else here. You're right on the surround sound limitations but software is actually pretty damn effective at positional audio and emulating surround. But it can't and won't match a true 7.1 room setup...nor should anyone expect it to. 

But its also not completely useless in my experience. Some folks live and swear by it...and positional does work to some extent...a big part of that is headphone imaging which is based on driver(s) and enclosure design. But that's not what this thread is about necessarily. 

I will add that open back headphones allow for greater sound stages which can more closely emulate speakers in a room...but even this has obvious limitations. But that being said the sound stage my HE-400 had was amazing and a true joy...and my closed AKG 553 pros are also amazing at sound stage...but they were designed with that purpose. 

There's 1,000s of options literally...all tuned for different expectations with different sacrifices. Depending on the OPs true priorities emulated surround might just fit the bill.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 12, 2016)

Kursah said:


> There's also perception and audible tolerance and preference that go hand in hand with what I may enjoy versus you or anyone else here. You're right on the surround sound limitations but software is actually pretty damn effective at positional audio and emulating surround. But it can't and won't match a true 7.1 room setup...nor should anyone expect it to.
> 
> But its also not completely useless in my experience


I agree. Speakers are very individual items and so no one can really decide what sounds right or best to you. You have to listen to them yourself - and with a multitude of source material.

And of course, if you don't know that the sax is supposed to be in the right rear, it does not matter if it shows up in the left rear - as long as it still sounds like a sax.


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## fourletterfame (Nov 12, 2016)

Prima.Vera said:


> Hello guys,
> 
> Just wanted some professional opinion on regarding buying (or not) a 7.1 headset for games and movies.
> I am only asking because I've read a couple of reviews, but none of them were CLEARLY specifying if the 3D positioning is there like on a 7.1 real environment or is just a crappy surround...
> ...



My buddy has a Razer Tiamat from several years back, it does analog 7.1 by using distinct drivers in the earcups, he swears by them. The virtualized 7.1 I'm not sure about, likely dependent on the strength of the software backing it up.


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## Dethroy (Nov 12, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> Not really - at least not for this topic. Physics sure plays into it, but not really in the way implied here -except for LFE (low frequency effects). Sure, sound is all about sound pressure levels and larger speakers can move a lot more air. But tiny speakers just an inch or two from your ear and when confined inside such a tiny space don't have to move a lot of air to reproduce quality sound.
> 
> But this topic is about "_surround_" sound and surround sound is about the number and placement of those speakers - not their size.


Wasn't necessarily implying that 2 big speakers are better than several tiny speakers for reproducing surround sound... Rather that the sound in general will be much better. And as Kursah pointed out, surround sound emulation has gotten pretty good - in fact so good, that it'll still sound better with good headphones that have a wide sound stage and good positioning than any surround headset, since none of those headsets will come close in audio quality.

Anyone interested in this topic should give this a read: http://www.head-fi.org/t/534479/mad...-guide-3-18-2016-mrspeakers-ether-c-1-1-added


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 12, 2016)

Dethroy said:


> in fact so good, that it'll still sound better with good headphones that have a wide sound stage and good positioning than any surround headset


Nah! Than "_any_" surround headset? Nah! That is too absolute! The best discrete will always sound better than anything simulated - assuming the faithful reproduction of the original discrete sound source is the ultimate goal.

That said, if you are gaming, it probably does not matter as your sight is consuming the most brain power.


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## Dethroy (Nov 12, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> Nah! Than "_any_" surround headset? Nah! That is too absolute!


I wish you were right. But from my experience and all the reviews I've read it sadly seems true.



Bill_Bright said:


> The best discrete will always sound better than anything simulated - assuming the faithful reproduction of the original discrete sound source is the ultimate goal.


Can't argue with that. But I'd rather have high quality audio while still having pretty good (not perfect) positioning.



Bill_Bright said:


> That said, if you are gaming, it probably does not matter as your sight is consuming the most brain power.


I seldomly use my headphones for gaming nowadays. But they certainly sound better than any headset I've tried. And I've tried a lot of headsets...


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 13, 2016)

First you say, "I wish you were right", then say you "can't argue with that". Seems one contradicts the other to me.


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## Dethroy (Nov 13, 2016)

Ever heard of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts? I personally value the overall experience more than perfect positioning with degraded sound quality. Nothing contradictory. Just you taking single sentences from its context.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 13, 2016)

Degraded sound quality? I never said anything about that. In fact, I am the one from the beginning touting "faithful reproduction" of the original source as being the paramount quality. That is why synthesized effects are not desirable, no matter how good they are.


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## Dethroy (Nov 13, 2016)

Degraded clarity, neutrality, details, driver speed, bass response, etc.
If we had surround headsets that wouldn't make so many compromises we wouldn't need to have this sort of discussion.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 13, 2016)

Which takes us back to my first post in this thread.


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## Ungari (Nov 13, 2016)

Dethroy said:


> Degraded clarity, neutrality, details, driver speed, bass response, etc.
> If we had surround headsets that wouldn't make so many compromises we wouldn't need to have this sort of discussion.



Did you hear about the masochist that went out and bought a 7.1 Surround headset because he heard that the sound quality was _degraded_?


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 14, 2016)

Ungari said:


> Did you hear about the masochist that went out and bought a 7.1 Surround headset because he heard that the sound quality was _degraded_?


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