# AMD FX 8 Core and 4 Core Processor Systems Seen Running at E3



## btarunr (Jun 7, 2011)

At the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) 2011, AMD made its revival of the FX brand identifier official. The company steered clear of actually launching anything, but reran the audience through the AMD Bulldozer architecture, something AMD first did way back in August 2010 (yeah, it's been that long!). Knowing the audience needed a lot more than just that, AMD ran live demos of gaming PCs running the new FX series processors, again, without giving away any performance figures. 

AMD first showed the final box art design. The box of the eight-core FX Black Edition processor is a classy metal canister, while the quad-core FX chip is housed in a more common-looking paperboard box, the design of which matches the one revealed in a box-art exposé back in March. The gaming rigs shown run the eight-core FX processor on an ASUS Crosshair V Formula motherboard, with Radeon HD 6900 series graphics, with an Eyefinity display setup. 



 

 

 




An instance of next-generation AMD Overdrive software is running, displaying a surprisingly low 19°C temperature on all cores. This could be a glitch, probably because AOD doesn't support the sensor interface of the new FX chips properly, yet. The other thing AOD reveals is that each of the eight cores is running on its own BClk multiplier value, ranging from 1.00 GHz (5 x 200 MHz), to 3.20 GHz (16 x 200 MHz). The core voltage for all the cores is displayed as 1.4V, again we suspect a low-level interface glitch.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Damn_Smooth (Jun 7, 2011)

19C is 66F, so that isn't too unreasonable if they are right next to an air conditioning vent, in a building meant to hold a lot of people, in what I would think would be high outside temperatures at this time of year in Los Angeles.

Whew, I'm the master of the run-on sentence.


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## erocker (Jun 7, 2011)

Damn_Smooth said:


> 19C is 66F, so that isn't too unreasonable if they are right next to an air conditioning vent, in a building meant to hold a lot of people, in what I would think would be high outside temperatures at this time of year, in Los Angeles.
> 
> Whew, I'm the master of the run-on sentence.



There's no way it's cooler than 66F in that convention center. It's most likely 72-80F. Looks like they're still using the old broken temp sensors.


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## cheesy999 (Jun 7, 2011)

erocker said:


> There's no way it's cooler than 66F in that convention center. It's most likely 72-80F. Looks like they're still using the old broken temp sensors.



Gotta love those temp sensors


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## TheLaughingMan (Jun 7, 2011)

erocker said:


> There's no way it's cooler than 66F in that convention center. It's most likely 72-80F. Looks like they're still using the old broken temp sensors.



Or the software is not reading the sensor correctly because the sensor itself is now different.

Interesting display none the less. Now they just need to let me borrow one of the production samples for a more...hands-on testing so I can be sure its what I want in the near future.


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## inferKNOX (Jun 7, 2011)

After building up to this degree of suspense, if AMD fail, it'll be the most Ultimate Supreme EPIC & Unforgivable Fail!
It doesn't have to be a mega leap in technology, it'll be enough if it at least looks SB straight in the eye, but dammit, it better not be fail!!


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## Batou1986 (Jun 7, 2011)

That guy looks pretty uncomfortable trying to use those huge screens


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## Yellow&Nerdy? (Jun 7, 2011)

A metal box? Literally re-designing everything eh...? Now let's see those benchies...


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## happita (Jun 7, 2011)

Yellow&Nerdy? said:


> A metal box? Literally re-designing everything eh...?



I saw that...hmmm, doesn't it cost more than paper? I'm sure the price is insignificant to the consumer, but for AMD they might lose a few million over something not so important to me.


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## _JP_ (Jun 7, 2011)

happita said:


> I saw that...hmmm, doesn't it cost more than paper? I'm sure the price is insignificant to the consumer, but for AMD they might lose a few million over something not so important to me.


I would love if they had a tray option. Just the damn processor, forget the rest....except the warranty.


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## Disparia (Jun 7, 2011)

Nice.

Sooner they get them out, more likely I'll be to buy one. Otherwise they'll just be butting up too closely with LGA2011.

No problem with a couple more bucks for a tin. New stash container...


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## seronx (Jun 7, 2011)

http://ascii.jp/elem/000/000/611/611175/

felt like posting this here as well


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## HalfAHertz (Jun 7, 2011)

seronx said:


> http://i.imgur.com/Erqeq.jpg
> 
> http://ascii.jp/elem/000/000/611/611175/
> 
> felt like posting this here as well



Very interesting. I was led to the impression that only the entire modules would be able to run at different frequencies but it seems they scaled it further down to the cores.


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## fullinfusion (Jun 7, 2011)

erocker said:


> There's no way it's cooler than 66F in that convention center. It's most likely 72-80F. Looks like they're still using the old broken temp sensors.


But then again as btarunr quoted.....An instance of next-generation AMD Overdrive software is running, displaying a surprisingly low 19°C temperature on all cores. This could be a glitch, probably because AOD doesn't support the sensor interface of the new FX chips properly, yet.

I wouldn't go saying using broken temp sensors, but time will tell right!


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## chaotic_uk (Jun 7, 2011)

they still using the stock crappy fan/hs


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## seronx (Jun 7, 2011)

fullinfusion said:


> But then again as btarunr quoted.....An instance of next-generation AMD Overdrive software is running, displaying a surprisingly low 19°C temperature on all cores. This could be a glitch, probably because AOD doesn't support the sensor interface of the new FX chips properly, yet.
> 
> I wouldn't go saying using broken temp sensors, but time will tell right!



Broken temp and broken voltage


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 7, 2011)

Damn these bastards! I WANT BENCHES!

Until then heres a hot chick.

http://www.browtf.com/wp-content/uploads/hot-chick7.jpg


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## seronx (Jun 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Damn these bastards! I WANT BENCHES!



Next month, July



They announced this already :|

But, I forgot the link...


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## fullinfusion (Jun 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Damn these bastards! I WANT BENCHES!
> 
> Until then heres a hot chick.
> 
> http://www.browtf.com/wp-content/uploads/hot-chick7.jpg


you and me both!!! you getting one mailman? if so lets troll the intel threads posting some big numbers lol 

Holy shit, hot chick alert


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## treehouse (Jun 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Damn these bastards! I WANT BENCHES!
> 
> Until then heres a hot chick.
> 
> http://www.browtf.com/wp-content/uploads/hot-chick7.jpg



ahhhh 

thanks for that


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## _JP_ (Jun 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Damn these bastards! I WANT BENCHES!
> Until then heres a hot chick.
> http://www.browtf.com/wp-content/uploads/hot-chick7.jpg


Ah, refreshing. Thanks TheMailMan!
I could get lost in those boobs, err...I mean, those eyes...those big, beautiful eyes...


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## chaotic_uk (Jun 7, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Damn these bastards! I WANT BENCHES!
> 
> Until then heres a hot chick.
> 
> http://www.browtf.com/wp-content/uploads/hot-chick7.jpg



seen better tbh


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## CDdude55 (Jun 7, 2011)

The tin can is awesome cause you can you can store a bunch of crap afterwards, like old Baseball cards or marijuana.


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm gunna have to say, this really seems like a pointless demo, especially given it shows, that this close to launch they are still having issues (all be it minor ones), with temp sensors, and I really doubt those voltages are legit either.


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## v2.0HeLLBRinGeR (Jun 7, 2011)

Sorry if this is off-topic, but why I can't comment on the 2011 Computex 2011 Show Girls article. Marilyn Monroe was there advertising a smartphone.


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 7, 2011)

[H]@RD5TUFF said:


> I'm gunna have to say, this really seems like a pointless demo, especially given it shows, that this close to launch they are still having issues (all be it minor ones), with temp sensors, and I really doubt those voltages are legit either.



i think, its due the team that programs AOD...i think they are not very good programmers, 
as till today i had not one single board where it worked as intended....  i kept myself to K10Stat and an FSB changing tool, of the manufacturer of the board i had then, when i wanted to tweak settings in bios... but AOD... hell, what a useless tool! Crashy, Buggy and locking/unlocking certain functions as it likes to... and no update i ever DLed of it, did ever brought real change to it


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## happita (Jun 7, 2011)

CDdude55 said:


> The tin can is awesome cause you can you can store a bunch of crap afterwards, like old Baseball cards or marijuana.



So THAT'S why they're tin canning black edition FX processors! I knew AMD secretly liked the stoner crowd 

Anyway.....it's interesting to see that all those cores are about to run at different frequencies. I thought that only one core would be overclocked and the rest at a set clock. I guess it's different with these "modules".


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## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

erocker said:


> There's no way it's cooler than 66F in that convention center. It's most likely 72-80F. Looks like they're still using the old broken temp sensors.



the sensors are not "broken" they read correctly at 65C.


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## Damn_Smooth (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> the sensors are not "broken" they read correctly at 65C.



Are you there? If so, I'm jealous as hell.


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## lashton (Jun 8, 2011)

*i concur*

The sensors are NOT i repet NOT broken they read correctly


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## Damn_Smooth (Jun 8, 2011)

lashton said:


> The sensors are NOT i repet NOT broken they read correctly



So what's the deal? How do you know?


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## damric (Jun 8, 2011)

I dig the metal box.


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## Damn_Smooth (Jun 8, 2011)

damric said:


> I dig the metal box.



It's shiny.


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## erocker (Jun 8, 2011)

lashton said:


> The sensors are NOT i repet NOT broken they read correctly





Damn_Smooth said:


> So what's the deal? How do you know?



I'm interested to know as well.

I must of missed this great new technology AMD has that allows their processors to run under ambient temperatures using a stock air cooler.

So with that being said. I repet, the temperature sensor(s) are not giving accurate readings.


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## damric (Jun 8, 2011)

Damn_Smooth said:


> It's shiny.



If I had a stash, I would surely stash my stash in it.


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## JATownes (Jun 8, 2011)

I believe that the temp sensor might be like the PIIs, whereas the temp is not correct at low temps, but as it starts to scale up, the readings become accurate.  Could be wrong though, just a guess.


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## fullinfusion (Jun 8, 2011)

Damn_Smooth said:


> Are you there? If so, I'm jealous as hell.


cdawall has some idea whats going on, I wouldn't put it past him if he's already running an ES X8 chip


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 8, 2011)

fullinfusion said:


> cdawall has some idea whats going on, I wouldn't put it past him if he's already running an ES X8 chip



whereever he got that from
Im not sure if he has one, but im pretty sure he knows someone that has one


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## Damn_Smooth (Jun 8, 2011)

fullinfusion said:


> cdawall has some idea whats going on, I wouldn't put it past him if he's already running an ES X8 chip



That would make me as jealous as being at E3. If not more.


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## micropage7 (Jun 8, 2011)

wow, i love the box


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## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

lashton said:


> The sensors are NOT i repet NOT broken they read correctly



they don't read correctly at anything below 65C there is a temp delta built into them.


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## xenocide (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> they don't read correctly at anything below 65C there is a temp delta built into them.



He's taking the Apple approach, disregard evidence, reap profits.

I agree that this was a pointless demo, until they show any benchmarks or viable performance numbers, I will assume these are at best on par with SB CPU's.


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## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

xenocide said:


> He's taking the Apple approach, disregard evidence, reap profits.
> 
> I agree that this was a pointless demo, until they show any benchmarks or viable performance numbers, I will assume these are at best on par with SB CPU's.



what do you mean by that there is no evidence these chips are not out. i am telling you what i know. i have also never mentioned performance nor do i care too.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 8, 2011)

v2.0HeLLBRinGeR said:


> Sorry if this is off-topic, but why I can't comment on the 2011 Computex 2011 Show Girls article. Marilyn Monroe was there advertising a smartphone.



How did she smell?


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## Strider (Jun 8, 2011)

19C is easily possible, just don't think it's going to happen on stock cooling. haha

I am at 20C on my soon to be outmatched 1090T at 4.1GHz at the moment. Then again, I am also not doing much save for running a single sever and reading up here at TPU. Well, that, and I am also running a Thermaltake Frio cooler. lol

Can't wait to get my greedy geeky hands on one of these 8 cores....


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## erocker (Jun 8, 2011)

Strider said:


> 19C is easily possible, just don't think it's going to happen on stock cooling. haha
> 
> I am at 20C on my soon to be outmatched 1090T at 4.1GHz at the moment. Then again, I am also not doing much save for running a single sever and reading up here at TPU. Well, that, and I am also running a Thermaltake Frio cooler. lol
> 
> Can't wait to get my greedy geeky hands on one of these 8 cores....



The point is that it is impossible for a CPU to run below ambient (room temperature). So if it is 21c in your room, your CPU cannot run at 20c.


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## kid41212003 (Jun 8, 2011)

Cool N Quiet didn't seem to work right .

Each core had different frequency, but the voltage stayed the same.


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## Damn_Smooth (Jun 8, 2011)

I don't know if anybody saw this, but the official website is up.

http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/processors/Pages/fx-processor.aspx


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## MatTheCat (Jun 8, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Damn these bastards! I WANT BENCHES!
> 
> Until then heres a hot chick.
> 
> http://www.browtf.com/wp-content/uploads/hot-chick7.jpg



Hot chick?

U mean that fkn plastic spastic fake tits barbie doll?

Show some class man!


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## Strider (Jun 8, 2011)

erocker said:


> The point is that it is impossible for a CPU to run below ambient (room temperature). So if it is 21c in your room, your CPU cannot run at 20c.



Well, not on a stock air cooler your not. The right liquid cooler or thermal electric you sure can. 

Though you can actually get a degree or two under room ambient on high-end air in a highly ventilated case. Depends on humidity and how much air you got moving through the cooler and case itself. So you will cool to the ambient of the air being forced over the cooler, and that can indeed be slightly less than the air temps in a room with stagnate air. To a point anyway. lol


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## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

Strider said:


> Well, not on a stock air cooler your not. The right liquid cooler or thermal electric you sure can.
> 
> Though you can actually get a degree or two under room ambient on high-end air in a highly ventilated case. Depends on humidity and how much air you got moving through the cooler and case itself. So you will cool to the ambient of the air being forced over the cooler, and that can indeed be slightly less than the air temps in a room with stagnate air. To a point anyway. lol



when you can figure out how you get cpu temps below the temp of the room come tell me because it is not possible. google thermodynamics.


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## Strider (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> when you can figure out how you get cpu temps below the temp of the room come tell me because it is not possible. google thermodynamics.



Moving air can be cooler than standing air. The air that is actually being moved over your heatsink can indeed be cooler than the ambient air temperature in the room the PC is located in. 

I did not say you can cool below the air temperature, I said the air temperature can be lower when it's moving than when stagnate. So you can indeed cool slightly under the rooms ambient temperature outside the case. 

Thanks


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## CDdude55 (Jun 8, 2011)

Considering all mainstream coolers use the air around your computer in one way or another (even watercooled) i don't see how you can get below that. You'll generally always be hotter then your ambient temps. 

The only exception to that would be extreme cooling that takes the parts below zero.


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## CDdude55 (Jun 8, 2011)

Strider said:


> Moving air can be cooler than standing air. The air that is actually being moved over your heatsink can indeed be cooler than the ambient air temperature in the room the PC is located in.
> 
> I did not say you can cool below the air temperature, I said the air temperature can be lower when it's moving than when stagnate. So you can indeed cool slightly under the rooms ambient temperature outside the case.
> 
> Thanks



I don't understand, when you move hot air, it's still hot air. Fans don't cool the air down,


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## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

Strider said:


> Moving air can be cooler than standing air. The air that is actually being moved over your heatsink can indeed be cooler than the ambient air temperature in the room the PC is located in.
> 
> I did not say you can cool below the air temperature, I said the air temperature can be lower when it's moving than when stagnate. So you can indeed cool slightly under the rooms ambient temperature outside the case.
> 
> Thanks



no its not. moving air has the same temp as stationary. also fans increase air temps electric motor add heat into the air.


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## alexsubri (Jun 8, 2011)

ooohh boy! I've been waiting all year for this, can`t wait till the release and some benchies! This is my must have 2011! What was the default clock speed?


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## cadaveca (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> however they have a little more respect for agreements signed with AMD



What does that mean?



What does that have to do with how CPUs are available in retail? Um...


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## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> What does that mean?
> 
> 
> 
> What does that have to do with how CPUs are available in retail? Um...



the parts all come out at pretty much the same time. these chips are in the hands of people on every major country there. the reason you see so many chinese BS reviews 2 months early is they dont care about NDA.


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## mastrdrver (Jun 8, 2011)

Cdawall is right about the sensors. They do read correctly.........at 19C. Outside of that, who knows.  



cdawall said:


> no its not. moving air has the same temp as stationary. also fans increase air temps electric motor add heat into the air.



Crazy I tell you!  Where do you come up with your stuff?


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## cadaveca (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> the reason you see so many chinese BS reviews 2 months early is they dont care about NDA.



Um, this thread is about the systems and benchmarks shown @ E3 by AMD, not unsanctioned reviews...

Doesn't always take signing an NDA to get pre-release hardware.


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## seronx (Jun 8, 2011)

http://twitter.com/#!/seronx/status/78302032339013632

I asked the E3 AMD guys


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## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

mastrdrver said:


> Cdawall is right about the sensors. They do read correctly.........at 19C. Outside of that, who knows.
> 
> 
> 
> Crazy I tell you!  Where do you come up with your stuff?



pure craziness man 



cadaveca said:


> Um, this thread is about the systems and benchmarks shown @ E3 by AMD, not unsanctioned reviews...
> 
> Doesn't always take signing an NDA to get pre-release hardware.



man i never knew that  one of those been there done that things and E3 is kind of a big deal hence why things go there first.


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## cadaveca (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> E3 is kind of a big deal hence why things go there first.



Question is, where do they go after? 

Temp sensors aren't made to report correct temperatures @ idle...they are made to work @ temps that might harm the CPU, so that it throttles correctly, and doesn't blow out the magic blue smoke.


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## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Question is, where do they go after?
> 
> Temp sensors aren't made to report correct temperatures @ idle...they are made to work @ temps that might harm the CPU, so that it throttles correctly, and doesn't blow out the magic blue smoke.



most are returned to AMD as part of their NDA's there are some that slip out and others that get "destroyed" by overclockers. 


my meaning of the temp sensor being correct at 65C was that. these chips silicone wise are still ok all the way up to 100C. however this will lead to heavy degradation. AMD rates there chips to temp XX because they have tested the chips to run at that temp stable and last until the warranty is up.


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## seronx (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> most are returned to AMD as part of their NDA's there are some that slip out and others that get "destroyed" by overclockers.
> 
> 
> my meaning of the temp sensor being correct at 65C was that. these chips silicone wise are still ok all the way up to 100C. however this will lead to heavy degradation. AMD rates there chips to temp XX because they have tested the chips to run at that temp stable and last until the warranty is up.



I want to ask where was this 65*C coming from because the temps we saw are all 19*C-20.5*C


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## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

seronx said:


> I want to ask where was this 65*C coming from because the temps we saw are all 19*C-20.5*C



because i know what the chips are rated at and what the temp sensors specs are.


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## cadaveca (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> most are returned to AMD as part of their NDA's there are some that slip out and others that get "destroyed" by overclockers.



Ever read a real NDA? Most of them say that disclosure of the NDA terms themselves is a breach of the NDA.

First rule of Fight Club...

I've got a fair bit of pre-release hardware with no NDA, but not from AMD directly. I only wish. I don't need an NDA to keep my lips tight.


And yeah, I know what you were on about with the sensor. I think perhaps I might understand a bit more than the avg joe.


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## Wile E (Jun 8, 2011)

Strider said:


> Moving air can be cooler than standing air. *The air that is actually being moved over your heatsink can indeed be cooler than the ambient air temperature in the room the PC is located in. *
> 
> I did not say you can cool below the air temperature, I said the air temperature can be lower when it's moving than when stagnate. So you can indeed cool slightly under the rooms ambient temperature outside the case.
> 
> Thanks



No it can't. Moving air is not cooler. Moving air makes you feel cooler because it is pulling heat away from your body as it moves over you, not because it is actually cooler.





TheMailMan78 said:


> lol at 6.1 I would fail as a dwarf.



Yeah, but you're ugly enough to be one.


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## erocker (Jun 8, 2011)

Stay on topic.


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## MikeMurphy (Jun 8, 2011)

inferKNOX said:


> After building up to this degree of suspense, if AMD fail, it'll be the most Ultimate Supreme EPIC & Unforgivable Fail!
> It doesn't have to be a mega leap in technology, it'll be enough if it at least looks SB straight in the eye, but dammit, it better not be fail!!



I think you lack appreciation of just how quickly Intel has progressed with nehalem and sandy bridge.  If BD comes close to single and multi-threaded nehalem performance it will be a huge 'win'.  Forget SB performance.


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## TheLaughingMan (Jun 8, 2011)

I really wanna see one of the test chips up close and personal.  Must remember to beg and/or bribe the right people in the next few hours.

I expect the top of the line FX to fall just above the 2600K in everything, but video encoding. I hope the FX completely blows it out of the water and falls just under the upcoming 2011 chips, but that is a glorious pipe dream.

I also don't care how it gets done either. Modules, cores, hyper threads, default clock rates, blah blah blah.  In the end, it is chip vs. chip with AMD in a corner. And like a trapped mouse, AMD better bear its claws and teeth and fight for their lives.

P.S.  Dear AMD, advertisements work best when posted on sites other than your own.  Just saying.


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## kid41212003 (Jun 8, 2011)

No one seemed to notice that even though the frequency for each core did go down, but the voltage did not...


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 8, 2011)

kid41212003 said:


> No one seemed to notice that even though the frequency for each core did go down, but the voltage did not...




if you read all the posts you would have noticed a few people have said this, its also likely a software glitch, or even a bug in the bios.


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## cadaveca (Jun 8, 2011)

TheLaughingMan said:


> Dear AMD, advertisements work best when posted on sites other than your own. Just saying.



Whadda you mean? They use Facebook and Twitter! What else is there?


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## seronx (Jun 8, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Whadda you mean? They use Facebook and Twitter! What else is there?



Techpowerup, Exclusive reviewer



I like your graphs TPU


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## rakesh_sharma23 (Jun 8, 2011)

I have been in PC making from Pentium series time.. i was happy with the Intel till Pentium III CPU.. then came AMD Athlon... It just changed my choice... Since then i was truly AMD Fan.. used AMD and suggest AMD only to every one i know..

Even Intel Core i7 (first Gen) failed to shift me to Intel (was very expensive).......
BUT but........ Sandy Bridge changed whole story...

Now I am having i7 2600k in my rig... and very pleased with the performance ..fare good then AMD X6... 

This is the same story of many AMD lovers..... SandyBridge made then switch to Intel....

If AMD Fx performs better then SandyBridge than there is some hope for AMD,,,
Even equal performance will lead to loss the battle for AMD.. cos Intel socket-2011 cpu are ready to fight against FX.....

Cross my fingers for AMD Fx.....


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## Thrackan (Jun 8, 2011)

Seriously? A *STOCK* cooler blocking a RAM slot?


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## Andrei23 (Jun 8, 2011)

rakesh_sharma23 said:


> I have been in PC making from Pentium series time.. i was happy with the Intel till Pentium III CPU.. then came AMD Athlon... It just changed my choice... Since then i was truly AMD Fan.. used AMD and suggest AMD only to every one i know..
> 
> Even Intel Core i7 (first Gen) failed to shift me to Intel (was very expensive).......
> BUT but........ Sandy Bridge changed whole story...
> ...




I don't believe AMD has the resources to keep up with Intel anymore. Until I see real benchmarks that prove otherwise, I don't believe that AMD's upcoming lineup will be able to beat Intel's current one.


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## Funtoss (Jun 8, 2011)

need benchmarks!!!


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## Thrackan (Jun 8, 2011)

Andrei23 said:


> I don't believe AMD has the resources to keep up with Intel anymore. Until I see real benchmarks that prove otherwise, I don't believe that AMD's upcoming lineup will be able to beat Intel's current one.



AMD will keep beating Intel in price, which is why I will keep siding with them  The huge budget market is what will keep AMD alive, unless Intel goes back to making illegal deals with suppliers...


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## FordGT90Concept (Jun 8, 2011)

Paraphrasing Patrick Henry, "Give me benchmarks or give me silence!"


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## DriedFrogPills (Jun 8, 2011)

Thrackan said:


> Seriously? A *STOCK* cooler blocking a RAM slot?



Looks like Scythe Shuriken to me


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## Thrackan (Jun 8, 2011)

DriedFrogPills said:


> Looks like Scythe Shuriken to me



Not to me, and I've had the original and I'm currently running a Big Shuriken


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## HTC (Jun 8, 2011)

Thrackan said:


> Seriously? A *STOCK* cooler blocking a RAM slot?



That's perspective aggravated by the fact that the cooler is crookedly assembled. I'm pretty sure if the cooler is placed as is supposed to, the RAM slot won't be blocked.


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## Thrackan (Jun 8, 2011)

HTC said:


> That's perspective aggravated by the fact that the cooler is crookedly assembled. I'm pretty sure if the cooler is placed as is supposed to, the RAM slot won't be blocked.



True, but both problems are a bit much for an AMD demo system...


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## filip007 (Jun 8, 2011)

Glitch, no Techpowerup has low glitch in his head...

As you noticed that CPUs runs from 800MHz to 3.2GHz so that means that they are not at full 100% as all together, so that 20°C is in normal range then!

This CPUs are scalable, maybe if you turn off two and overclock to 4GHz or more, that should be fun...


----------



## HTC (Jun 8, 2011)

Thrackan said:


> True, but both problems are a bit much for an AMD demo system...



This isn't the first time this sort of thing happened.

IIRC, Btarunr posted a news from Spire cases where it showed the motherboard within the case. Thing is it was mounted pretty much as this cooler: crookedly. I joked about it and someone from Spire replied and said something like: "We're not very good at assembling" (not exactly this, but close). That made me laugh, hehe 

I'm sure there are other instances as well.


----------



## Assimilator (Jun 8, 2011)

Pretty packaging but no benchmarks, a temperature sensor that can't correctly report temperatures, and "new" overclocking software that doesn't even work properly with their own new chips?

AMD, you're doing a great job convincing us... that Bulldozer is going be be even worse than Phenom, and you're marketing the crap out of it to cover up the fact that you can't make competitive CPUs anymore.


----------



## filip007 (Jun 8, 2011)

There is nothing wrong with software, why would they show something broken. Better wait for more official stuff...


----------



## bucketface (Jun 8, 2011)

what overclocking software? 
the temps and volts are probably the result of software incompatability with the program displaying them. maybe on purpose? 
still want benchies...


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Jun 8, 2011)

Who gives a shit about what the new CPU's or the boxes they come in look like? BENCHMARKS ARE WHAT COUNTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jpierce55 (Jun 8, 2011)

inferKNOX said:


> After building up to this degree of suspense, if AMD fail, it'll be the most Ultimate Supreme EPIC & Unforgivable Fail!
> It doesn't have to be a mega leap in technology, it'll be enough if it at least looks SB straight in the eye, but dammit, it better not be fail!!



It reminds me of the Phenom hype.


----------



## btarunr (Jun 8, 2011)

jpierce55 said:


> It reminds me of the Phenom hype.



For Phenom, AMD started hyping _Barcelona_ right when Intel released the Core 2 series. That hype campaign was a lot more aggressive. You had senior VPs of AMD publicly saying that Barcelona will "crush" Core 2. 

That isn't happening now. The "FX" name first became public via leaks, AMD hasn't commented on performance to the public till now. When talking about the Bulldozer architecture, AMD avoided claiming it to be the fastest processor architecture, or something that will be the fastest in the market. 

If AMD was confident that FX will lead, you can bet your bottom penny that they would have launched FX months ago, or would have made benchmarks public.


----------



## TheLaughingMan (Jun 8, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Whadda you mean? They use Facebook and Twitter! What else is there?



I see what you did there. lol


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 8, 2011)

TheLaughingMan said:


> I see what you did there. lol



I got AM3+ boards...hopefully they'll send me a CPU...soon.


----------



## HD64G (Jun 8, 2011)

Strider said:


> Well, not on a stock air cooler your not. The right liquid cooler or thermal electric you sure can.
> 
> Though you can actually get a degree or two under room ambient on high-end air in a highly ventilated case. Depends on humidity and how much air you got moving through the cooler and case itself. So you will cool to the ambient of the air being forced over the cooler, and that can indeed be slightly less than the air temps in a room with stagnate air. To a point anyway. lol



Exactly!


----------



## Widjaja (Jun 8, 2011)

Idk this hype reminds me of the HD2900s :/

I'll be very pissed off if AMD has another fail like the Gen 1 Phenom.
If they do I'm most likely going to Intel.


----------



## trickson (Jun 8, 2011)

Widjaja said:


> Idk this hype reminds me of the HD2900s :/
> 
> I'll be very pissed off if AMD has another fail like the Gen 1 Phenom.
> If they do I'm most likely going to Intel.



I am reminded of the Phenom days when Chines guys were doing this very same thing ! It would seem that every time the Japanese or Chines kids get these CPU's they do this EVERY TIME . I do not see benchmarks ! 
If this "FX" Chip was all that and a bag of Chips I would think AMD would be handing them out to be test by every one ! Not just to the chines ! This is JMHO ! I highly doubt that there "FX" Chip will be able to hold a candle to Ivy ! BD ='s Big Disappointment !


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jun 8, 2011)

Everyone keeps talking about hype. WTF hype has there been from AMD? The Phenom and 2900 had MAJOR hype. All I have seen is box art for the FX. I would hardly call that hype.

I figure this bulldozer will be on par with Sandy. Maybe just a tad slower but for a better price and thats me being optimistic. All one has to do is look at the price and see the FX for what it is.


----------



## mstenholm (Jun 8, 2011)

mastrdrver said:


> Cdawall is right about the sensors. They do read correctly.........at 19C. Outside of that, who knows.
> 
> 
> 
> Crazy I tell you!  Where do you come up with your stuff?



The man is not crazy. That is common knowledge to people with an engineering degree. 

The sensors read wrong!


----------



## arroyo (Jun 8, 2011)

The battle between Sandy Bridge and Bulldozer is all like a battle between super cars:

- Every super car is fast, some of them are faster than others (SB vs Phenom II)
- Price does not scale with performance (old i7 vs SB)
- Some people like Porsche and some Ferrari even if they know that Ferreri is faster (AMD vs Intel)
- With speed over 200+ Mph performance does not make any difference for the driver (3,5GHz+)

To summarize it:
*I will buy Bulldozer instead Sandy Bridge even if it will be slower just because I like Porsche*


----------



## trickson (Jun 8, 2011)

arroyo said:


> The battle between Sandy Bridge and Bulldozer is all like a battle between super cars:
> 
> - Every super car is fast, some of them are faster than others (SB vs Phenom II)
> - Price does not scale with performance (old i7 vs SB)
> ...



Again thing is there is no real tests being done on the BD at all . Nothing concrete so right now it is all speculation and hype . TO say that this is a Porsche would be more like hopping it is at this point . I guess I have a ford pinto then ?


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## jpierce55 (Jun 8, 2011)

Yes, but it is a Pinto with a v8 and a blower


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

cheesy999 said:


> i thought they fixed the broken temp sensors in the latest phenom ii release?



its not broken


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## cheesy999 (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> its not broken



yeah i know, that was my point


----------



## bucketface (Jun 8, 2011)

whats with all this talk about hype? AMD is being very tight lipped about BD at least performance wise.. i think they may be doing almost the complete opposite of what they did with phenom, not making any promises or hyping it up until release.


----------



## gifted1 (Jun 8, 2011)

bucketface said:


> whats with all this talk about hype? AMD is being very tight lipped about BD at least performance wise.. i think they may be doing almost the complete opposite of what they did with phenom, not making any promises or hyping it up until release.



The dude has a point....so back to the jerkin and wait for the benches!!


----------



## cadaveca (Jun 8, 2011)

bucketface said:


> whats with all this talk about hype? AMD is being very tight lipped about BD at least performance wise.. i think they may be doing almost the complete opposite of what they did with phenom, not making any promises or hyping it up until release.



Well, with the Phenom I launch, we had Leslie Sobon hyping 3 GHz CPUs that never materialized. I think they learnt from that mistake, because many users, that I could tell, held off on buying, waiting for that product to materialize. I know I personally did.

Instead, what we have this time is fairly good info on core design, a tidbit of memory support(1866 MHz), and backwards compatibility for existing sockets(although there are some things that won't be available on older chipsets).

This seems like a fairly standard launch to me, and a good one, at that. AMD and thier partners have shown they are listening to enthusiasts this time around, and while it would be nice to have Bulldozer bulldoze the competition, even at the top end, I am far more concerned, personally, with how the performance will fit in price points compared to the other options already on the market. If, say, for $200, and $300, they offer more @ stock performance levels, I will have no choice but to declare Bulldozer as a success...

I keep thinknig of the story of the tortise and the hare. Good ol' floppy ears was fast, for sure, but the slow and steady shellback won the race in the end.


----------



## cheesy999 (Jun 8, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Well, with the Phenom I launch, we had Leslie Sobon hyping 3 GHz CPUs that never materialized. I think they learnt from that mistake, because many users, that I could tell, held off on buying, waiting for that product to materialize. I know I personally did.



amd planned phenom ii to scale up to 10ghz so they must always be a bit optimistic when they design these things


----------



## trickson (Jun 8, 2011)

bucketface said:


> whats with all this talk about hype? AMD is being very tight lipped about BD at least performance wise.. i think they may be doing almost the complete opposite of what they did with phenom, not making any promises or hyping it up until release.



I think they are doing this for a reason , Like the Phenom days when there release was almost silent , because of the Performance ? I am not sure but I think if AMD had a real killer CPU here they would spouting off and dancing around benchmarks . But time will tell if BD is a real Bulldozer and not a Big Disappointment ! I hope to see some real action not just some kid in China testing out a fake chip !


----------



## inferKNOX (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> no its not. moving air has the same temp as stationary. also fans increase air temps electric motor add heat into the air.





Wile E said:


> No it can't. Moving air is not cooler. Moving air makes you feel cooler because it is pulling heat away from your body as it moves over you, not because it is actually cooler.



I just had to chime in here, that (and it's been a while so I may be rusty) theoretically as the air is propelled through the case, if the exhaust fan(s) have a higher suction strength than the intake fans, so as to allow the pressure within the case to decrease, the Avogadro's constant would dictate that the number of molecules per unit volume inside the case would be lower than that of the rest of the room.
That would allow for increased inter-molecular spacing, meaning that for a given volume of air the number of molecules and thus total energy, as held by the molecules, is lower; allowing for a greater gradient between the energy of the heated surface & the air, ie, the air would be essentially cooler.
So technically Strider's hypothesis, which although is very unlikely here, is plausible.


----------



## Steevo (Jun 8, 2011)

cheesy999 said:


> amd planned phenom ii to scale up to 10ghz so they must always be a bit optimistic when they design these things



Wow, where did you ever read that?


Under LH they do overclock very well, but that claim is just absurd unless you are counting cores by frequency. In that case a quad at 2.5Ghz makes it.


----------



## cheesy999 (Jun 8, 2011)

Steevo said:


> Wow, where did you ever read that?
> 
> 
> Under LH they do overclock very well, but that claim is just absurd unless you are counting cores by frequency. In that case a quad at 2.5Ghz makes it.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_K10


> In 2003, AMD outlined the features for upcoming generations of microprocessors after the K8 family of processors in various events and analyst meetings, including the Microprocessor Forum 2003.[7] The outlined features to be deployed by the next-generation microprocessors are as follows:
> Threaded architectures.
> Chip level multiprocessing.
> Huge scale MP (multi-processor) machines.
> ...



for those who don't want to read it says that in 2003 AMD announced the next gen of processors would be at 10ghz, and we haven't even got half of that now


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

inferKNOX said:


> I just had to chime in here, that (and it's been a while so I may be rusty) theoretically as the air is propelled through the case, if the exhaust fan(s) have a higher suction strength than the intake fans, so as to allow the pressure within the case to decrease, the Avogadro's constant would dictate that the number of molecules per unit volume inside the case would be lower than that of the rest of the room.
> That would allow for increased inter-molecular spacing, meaning that for a given volume of air the number of molecules and thus total energy, as held by the molecules, is lower; allowing for a greater gradient between the energy of the heated surface & the air, ie, the air would be essentially cooler.
> So technically Strider's hypothesis, which although is very unlikely here, is plausible.



and the fans will still heat the air going over the HS as will the intake fans. it is not possible to lower the temp of air using a fan irregardless to a negative pressure inside of the case.


----------



## inferKNOX (Jun 8, 2011)

cheesy999 said:


> amd planned phenom ii to scale up to 10ghz so they must always be a bit optimistic when they design these things



I think you're getting Intel & Pentium, mixed up with AMD & Phenom II there buddy.


----------



## cheesy999 (Jun 8, 2011)

inferKNOX said:


> these things
> I think you're getting Intel & Pentium, mixed up with AMD & Phenom II there buddy.



hey i've already posted my Wikipedia quote, thanks for other example of tech companies aiming high and failing badly


----------



## inferKNOX (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> and the fans will still heat the air going over the HS as will the intake fans. it is not possible to lower the temp of air using a fan irregardless to a negative pressure inside of the case.



The quantity of heat that the average fan dissipates to the fluid it displaces is generally negligible.
Bear in mind, though, that I'm just saying that what Strider proposed is plausible and not crazy as you guys seemed to suggest, but I'm not saying it is the case in this scenario.


----------



## inferKNOX (Jun 8, 2011)

cheesy999 said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_K10
> 
> 
> for those who don't want to read it says that in 2003 AMD announced the next gen of processors would be at 10ghz, and we haven't even got half of that now



Intel announced their belief that they'd get the P4 to 10GHz by 2011.

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-121841.html
http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/intel-predicts-10ghz-chips-by-2011-20000726/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_4


> At the launch of the Pentium 4, Intel stated NetBurst-based processors were expected to scale to 10 GHz (which should be achieved over several fabrication process generations). However, the NetBurst microarchitecture ultimately hit a frequency ceiling far below that expectation – the fastest clocked NetBurst-based models reached a peak clock speed of 3.8 GHz. Intel had not anticipated a rapid upward scaling of transistor power leakage that began to occur as the die reached the 90 nm lithography and smaller.



AMD were no-doubt just trying not to look bad by failing to match Intel's claims.


----------



## bucketface (Jun 8, 2011)

out of curiosity, does anyone here actually know what the exact ambient temp was in the room, as well as the ambient within the case... because otherwise it is all supposition. 
though it is unlikely that they had the aircon at a setting that would produce an ambient temp of 19°C or below.. just saying... why are we still arguing/disscussing this? o.0


----------



## inferKNOX (Jun 8, 2011)

bucketface said:


> out of curiosity, does anyone here actually know what the exact ambient temp was in the room, as well as the ambient within the case... because otherwise it is all supposition.
> though it is unlikely that they had the aircon at a setting that would produce an ambient temp of 19°C or below.. just saying... why are we still arguing/disscussing this? o.0



Sorry, I was late to the discussion, but had to comment.

BTW, to all those saying there's hype, it's not hype, it's suspense guys...
Suspense as in _Lost_, not hype as in _Harry Potter movies_.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

inferKNOX said:


> The quantity of heat that the average fan dissipates to the fluid it displaces is generally negligible.
> Bear in mind, though, that I'm just saying that what Strider proposed is plausible and not crazy as you guys seemed to suggest, but I'm not saying it is the case in this scenario.



it is outlandish and impossible. otherwise everyone would just make all the fans exhaust fans.


----------



## mstenholm (Jun 8, 2011)

No news but they sure got our attention


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## inferKNOX (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> it is outlandish and impossible. otherwise everyone would just make all the fans exhaust fans.


Probably outlandish, but definitely not impossible.
The fans required to drop the pressure enough to significantly alter the internal temperature of a case would probably need to have impractically high strength and thus would probably be uncomfortably noisy.
It remains, however, physically possible to achieve such result.


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

inferKNOX said:


> Probably outlandish, but definitely not impossible.
> The fans required to drop the pressure enough to significantly alter the internal temperature of a case would probably need to have impractically high strength and thus would probably be uncomfortably noisy.
> It remains, however, physically possible to achieve such result.



No it won't the air inside could never reach a level of cooler than that of its intake


----------



## inferKNOX (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> No it won't the air inside could never reach a level of cooler than that of its intake


You sir, need to study some physics (perhaps during that self prescribed break you speak of in your sig) before proposing such an erroneous statement.
That's the last I'll say on the matter.


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## X1REME (Jun 8, 2011)

*AMD Hype?*

I cant remember AMD saying anything about the Radeon 6 series trashing thier opponents, although they clearly knew that would be the case until nvidia releases 580/590 etc. why?

We can also see this with the Atom vs Zacate, it was a clear victory for AMD, but AMD choose to stay silent. why?

AMD has not hyped anything, its all but ones ego and bias against amd vs intel rubbish. By Saying the BD will be worse then Phenom is hilarious 

imho AMD is going to rape Intel (Multitasking, dunno about games or single) this round, the stepping B2 is to make sure it competes with intels incoming cpu`s (speed bumps mostly)... IB wont do much for intel next year, where amd BD has the advantage of major improvements for 2012....


----------



## [H]@RD5TUFF (Jun 8, 2011)

X1REME said:


> imho AMD is going to rape Intel (Multitasking, dunno about games or single) this round, the stepping B2 is to make sure it competes with intels incoming cpu`s (speed bumps mostly)... IB wont do much for intel next year, where amd BD has the advantage of major improvements for 2012....



I'll take 2 of whatever your smoking / snorting .. . .  it's nice to dream . . .


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

inferKNOX said:


> You sir, need to study some physics (perhaps during that self prescribed break you speak of in your sig) before proposing such an erroneous statement.
> That's the last I'll say on the matter.



without a heat exchanger of sorts explain to me how you plan on lowering something temperature. air does not just loose its temp. i kind of deal with air conditioning everyday. cool >800F bleed air down to <-30F. it doesn't happen by magic gotta use something in between to dissipate the heat.


----------



## inferKNOX (Jun 8, 2011)

@X1REME:
I've had a silent hope that AMD is holding back the numbers so that Intel won't be prompted to be over-aggressive on preparing their counter-attack and is hence trying to catch Intel... off-guard, so to speak.
I'd realistically estimate it, though, to be more-or-less on par with SB.
Sigh... the _sheer suspense_!!


----------



## [H]@RD5TUFF (Jun 8, 2011)

inferKNOX said:


> @X1REME:
> I've had a silent hope that AMD is holding back the numbers so that Intel won't be prompted to be over-aggressive on preparing their counter-attack and is hence trying to catch Intel... off-guard, so to speak.
> I'd realistically estimate it, though, to be more-or-less on par with SB.
> Sigh... the _sheer suspense_!!



I would like to see the 8 core model come in at around 2-3% faster than a 2600k Sandy Bridge, in my opinion anything less than this is just AMD falling short of the mark. I also have my concerns with how these chips will overclock, with Sandy Bridge chips hitting 4.5+ on air (some as high as 5 Ghz), that's a huge mountain to climb right out the starting gate.

But all the speculation in the world is worth less than this demo, time will tell. I do hope AMD can surprise us all and get a chip that is actually competitive, and cause intel to drop it's prices, but given AMD's history, I am sad to say that is just not likely to happen. :shadedshu


----------



## largon (Jun 8, 2011)

kid41212003 said:


> No one seemed to notice that even though the frequency for each core did go down, but the voltage did not...


That's because it would not be feasible to make a motherboard that allowed each core to have a dedicated voltage source. No CPU/platform does that, anyways.


----------



## pantherx12 (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> without a heat exchanger of sorts explain to me how you plan on lowering something temperature. air does not just loose its temp. i kind of deal with air conditioning everyday. cool >800F bleed air down to <-30F. it doesn't happen by magic gotta use something in between to dissipate the heat.



No need for a heat exchanger.

Thing is he's right the fans needed would have to be phenomenal  Basically if there is less hot objects in their ( atoms and such) then there will be less heat.

As say you had 20 hot things in something x size. You'd have a tdp of 20 ( sorry for easy numbers, can't be arsed)

Where as if you had 10 hot things in x size you'd have a tdp of 10.


The theory is there it's just not possible with conventional designs.

(think about air high up in our atmosphere, it's cold as there's less air up there)


----------



## Disparia (Jun 8, 2011)

Air temp, yes. But then wouldn't the CPU itself be hotter as there is umm... less air in the air? 

We need to compress our cases so there's more medium to move the heat away!


----------



## cdawall (Jun 8, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> No need for a heat exchanger.
> 
> Thing is he's right the fans needed would have to be phenomenal  Basically if there is less hot objects in their ( atoms and such) then there will be less heat.
> 
> ...



its less dense in the upper atmo hence cooler that wont happen on the ground with conventional fans



largon said:


> That's because it would not be feasible to make a motherboard that allowed each core to have a dedicated voltage source. No CPU/platform does that, anyways.



each core is adjustable volts wise on AMD server chips


----------



## wolf (Jun 8, 2011)

X1REME said:


> I cant remember AMD saying anything about the Radeon 6 series trashing thier opponents, although they clearly knew that would be the case until nvidia releases 580/590 etc. why?



what exactly did the 6 series trash? don't get me wrong it's a fantastic series. and the only card that really trashes anything is the 6990. the 6970 is _on par_ with a GTX480, hardly a trashing. AMD are kicking ass with the top top card (dual GPU) and thats it as far as brute force GPU's go. 

the perspective of trashing in AMD's recent years is all about what you get for your money, there they are making a killing.



[H]@RD5TUFF said:


> I'll take 2 of whatever your smoking / snorting .. . .  it's nice to dream . . .



some for me too! gotta share bro 

thing is at least for most of us here at TPU, were either enthusiasts (read: overclockers, or at elast call it optimisers if you will)or at least 'in the know', I just dont think BD will be for us. again I feel they will take the value segment of the market and have utterly staggering performance for your hard earned cash, but when it comes to the fastest, SB and IB will still be on top IMO. especially with overclocking added to the mix.

Like you say in a later post, most 2500/2600K's hitting 4.5ghz ++ on air is something AMD is going to have a ridiculously hard time matching, and trying to sell their unlocked chips as competition to that...


----------



## seronx (Jun 8, 2011)

wolf said:


> what exactly did the 6 series trash? don't get me wrong it's a fantastic series. and the only card that really trashes anything is the 6990. the 6970 is _on par_ with a GTX480, hardly a trashing. AMD are kicking ass with the top top card (dual GPU) and thats it as far as brute force GPU's go.
> 
> the perspective of trashing in AMD's recent years is all about what you get for your money, there they are making a killing.
> 
> ...



and that is why AMD 32nm SOI processors use

http://www.intel.com/technology/silicon/high-k.htm

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/fast_forward_hkmg_masses

HKMG


----------



## wolf (Jun 8, 2011)

seronx said:


> and that is why AMD 32nm SOI processors use
> 
> http://www.intel.com/technology/silicon/high-k.htm
> 
> ...



yes I knew that, but that in itself does not guarantee massive overclockability like SB already has. AMD has a lot of work to do to appeal to the enthusiast-extreme overclocker.


----------



## seronx (Jun 8, 2011)

wolf said:


> yes I knew that, but that in itself does not guarantee massive overclockability like SB already has. AMD has a lot of work to do to appeal to the enthusiast-extreme overclocker.



They had 5 years to figure out what to do and how to do it

2007 Bulldozer the architecture was annouced

2009 was when Bulldozer was going to release with 45nm SOI HKMG but since GloFo decided not go for mass production of 45nm HKMG AMD had to wait for the next SOI version of HKMG (45nm could have been used for ES samples though)

2011 5 years since Bulldozer announced


----------



## Velvet Wafer (Jun 8, 2011)

wolf said:


> yes I knew that, but that in itself does not guarantee massive overclockability like SB already has. AMD has a lot of work to do to appeal to the enthusiast-extreme overclocker.



Lets see... AMD already reached 4-4.2 ghz maximum clock, for a good percentage of their processors (since 965 c3) even if NONE of them sports HKMG.... so i guess, with it, the maximum clockability will be quite noticeable.... given, that it works correctly, and as intended (like in Intel processors)
5 Ghz doesnt sound SO unrealistic anymore, if you look at that fact

Only thing that we dont know, which is even more important, is the performance clock for clock... i suppose for BD beeing a little weaker there, than SB, especially in singlethreaded apps.

But especially in multicore apps, the Technology implemented by AMD is supposed to bring much greater Benefits, than the Hyperthreading Technology by Intel. 
It even was suggested by Anand, that Bulldozer maybe has AVX instructions, like SB, due to the pair of 128bit fmacs on die.

Then, there is Magny Cours....Just look at how far they already came, with 12 cores... dont you think that the technological sucessor, will sport even greater performance, with even less power consumption? Remember, even Magny Cours, was not HKMG. 
Its still ordinary 45nm SOI


----------



## pantherx12 (Jun 8, 2011)

cdawall said:


> its less dense in the upper atmo hence cooler that wont happen on the ground with conventional fans




I know man.

I even said it in that post.


----------



## seronx (Jun 8, 2011)

Velvet Wafer said:


> Lets see... AMD already reached 4-4.2 ghz maximum clock, for a good percentage of their processors (since 965 c3) even if NONE of them sports HKMG.... so i guess, with it, the maximum clockability will be quite noticeable.... given, that it works correctly, and as intended (like in Intel processors)
> 5 Ghz doesnt sound SO unrealistic anymore, if you look at that fact
> 
> Only thing that we dont know, which is even more important, is the performance clock for clock... i suppose for BD beeing a little weaker there, than SB, especially in singlethreaded apps.
> ...



BD should have the same as SB to 4x SB

IPC = Integer Performance(ALU) (Right?)

A BD Module has 2 ALUs per core

I read somewhere not sure where that the SB only has 1 ALU per thread or was it just 1 ALU all together?


----------



## Velvet Wafer (Jun 8, 2011)

seronx said:


> BD should have the same as SB to 4x SB
> 
> IPC = Integer Performance(ALU) (Right?)
> 
> ...



I dont think we can be really sure about that, as said, until there are benches to actually throw in some facts into the specualtion... but the signs are not bad, even tho, they arent too good either

IPC is Instructions per Clock if im not wrong 

I guess what you mean is, that BD has only one FPU per 2 core module, so 4 total for 8 cores shared?


----------



## seronx (Jun 8, 2011)

Velvet Wafer said:


> I dont think we can be really sure about that, as said, until there are benches to actually throw in some facts into the specualtion... but the signs are not bad, even tho, they arent too good either
> 
> IPC is Instructions per Clock if im not wrong
> 
> I guess what you mean is, that BD has only one FPU per 2 core module, so 4 total for 8 cores shared?



SB only has 1 FPU per 2 threads as well

FLOPC is the same as SB at 256bit while in 128bit FX is 2x that of SB






(Problem #1 with this slide is it referring to 1 Flex FPU or all 4 Flex FPU in Zambezi)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_cycle



> Calculation of IPC
> 
> The number of instructions per second for a processor can be derived by multiplying the instructions per cycle and the clock speed (measured in cycles per second or Hertz [Hz]) of the processor in question. The number of instructions per second is an approximate indicator of the likely performance of the processor.
> 
> The number of instructions executed per clock is not a constant for a given processor; it depends on how the particular software being run interacts with the processor, and indeed the entire machine, particularly the memory hierarchy. However, certain processor features tend to lead to designs that have higher-than-average IPC values; the presence of multiple arithmetic logic units (an ALU is a processor subsystem that can perform elementary arithmetic and logical operations), and short pipelines. When comparing different instruction sets, a simpler instruction set may lead to a higher IPC figure than an implementation of a more complex instruction set using the same chip technology; however, the more complex instruction set may be able to achieve more useful work with fewer instructions.


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Jun 9, 2011)

seronx said:


> They had 5 years to figure out what to do and how to do it
> 
> 2007 Bulldozer the architecture was annouced
> 
> ...



They spent a similar amount of time on Phenom 1 and that was a huge success .. . . oh no wait it wasn't.

Just because you give a monkey 5 years to do something doesn't mean he is going to be able to paint the Mona Lisa.

Again you can speculate all you want and talk about how AMD has some small architectural changes that will make little real world difference, but no benchies no proof!


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

[H]@RD5TUFF said:


> They spent a similar amount of time on Phenom 1 and that was a huge success .. . . oh no wait it wasn't.
> 
> Just because you give a monkey 5 years to do something doesn't mean he is going to be able to paint the Mona Lisa.
> 
> Again you can speculate all you want and talk about how AMD has some small architectural changes that will make little real world difference, but no benchies no proof!



Phenom I had cache issues(latency(L3->L2) and size(L3)) and silicon leakage issues(highest clock they could get is 2.6GHz (Stock)) and they also had to release this CPU to even get a competing cpu out

Phenom II fixed them while still having the same architecture

K10 also was in the bleak era of AMD (Scandals, Debts, and the usual)

Bulldozer is going to be in a profitable era(Intels profitable era Core 2(Wolfdale/Yorkfields) -> i7(Nehalem) -> i7(SB))

K8 Refresh announced 2006
K10(K8 Refresh) happened in 2007 <-- Production(But not optimal production rate)
1 year later Phenom I came out
2 years later Phenom II came out
4 years later 3.7GHz 980 BE II

New Architecture happened in 2007 <-- Announcement of the BD Architecture
Bulldozer happened in 2009 <-- Production(but not optimal production rate)(No HKMG)
3 years later first gen Bulldozer Enthusiast only FX
4 years later Bulldozer goes mainstream Trinity APU

It is only common sense a monkey learns to fix something once it gets punished


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## trickson (Jun 9, 2011)

I call all speculation BS I want real bench marks ! NOW AMD ! YOU HEAR ME ? NOW !


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## xBruce88x (Jun 9, 2011)

erocker said:


> There's no way it's cooler than 66F in that convention center. It's most likely 72-80F. Looks like they're still using the old broken temp sensors.



If it were cooler than 66F, it would explain why the guy is wearing a long sleeve shirt this time of year...


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## trickson (Jun 9, 2011)

19c on all cores ? I mean come on man give me a break . I water cool my shit and can't get that ! Even if they are cooler running there is just no way in hell you are going to get an 8 core CPU to run at 19c with that POS HSF on it ! WTF do they take us for any way ? I have to say this is just pure BS ! Also why are the frequencies of the cores all over the place ? I see them as low as 983MHz and the temp is still 19c ? man I can not believe this at all ! good god even the multipliers are all over the place !


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## mastrdrver (Jun 9, 2011)

The clocks and multipliers all over the place is how it is suppose to work.


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

trickson said:


> 19c on all cores ? I mean come on man give me a break . I water cool my shit and can't get that ! Even if they are cooler running there is just no way in hell you are going to get an 8 core CPU to run at 19c with that POS HSF on it ! WTF do they take us for any way ? I have to say this is just pure BS ! Also why are the frequencies of the cores all over the place ? I see them as low as 983MHz and the temp is still 19c ? man I can not believe this at all ! good god even the multipliers are all over the place !



Set your house to 64F and turn off your cpus overclock and turn on the intel's equivalent of Cool'n'Quiet, I think its called E1C or Speedstep

I haven't used intel since Pentium 4 so I wouldn't know the names, You should get the same results


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## trickson (Jun 9, 2011)

mastrdrver said:


> The clocks and multipliers all over the place is how it is suppose to work.



Not how want mine to work . If one core is 3.2GHz then 16c would not be right at least it don't seem right . Looks like an up and down roller coaster ride to me . Wouldn't the temps be just as fluctuating as well ? I do know but to me this seems like a load of BS is all . I hope they come out soon so we can all see just what they are doing in real time real life apps . All this jumping the gun and looking at some half bald china man running the chip with windows system monitor ONLY seems a bit like giving a porn video with every one waring clothes ! NO MONEY shots ? ! WTH ?


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

trickson said:


> Not how want mine to work . If one core is 3.2GHz then 16c would not be right at least it don't seem right . Looks like an up and down roller coaster ride to me . Wouldn't the temps be just as fluctuating as well ? I do know but to me this seems like a load of BS is all . I hope they come out soon so we can all see just what they are doing in real time real life apps . All this jumping the gun and looking at some half bald china man running the chip with windows system monitor ONLY seems a bit like giving a porn video with every one waring clothes ! NO MONEY shots ? ! WTH ?



The temperature did fluctuate 

1 core @ 3.2GHz = 19*C
3 cores @ 3.5-3.6 = 20.5*C

Since this AOD and not Coretemp or some other program I am not sure we should believe that 1.4volt and 19-20.5*C readings till next month when the benchies _should_ come out


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## trickson (Jun 9, 2011)

seronx said:


> Set your house to 64F and turn off your cpus overclock and turn on the intel's equivalent of Cool'n'Quiet, I think its called E1C or Speedstep
> 
> I haven't used intel since Pentium 4 so I wouldn't know the names, You should get the same results



LOL yeah I could also slap on the TEC WB I have and get even cooler temps ! 0c any one ? Even with all that this thing is running a POS Stock cooler NO Way it is that cool ! And whiel every thing else is up and down the temps ALL stay the same ? NO WAY IN HELL BROTHER ! I call Bull Shit ! 





Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

trickson said:


> LOL yeah I could also slap on the TEC WB I have and get even cooler temps ! 0c any one ? Even with all that this thing is running a POS Stock cooler NO Way it is that cool ! And whiel every thing else is up and down the temps ALL stay the same ? NO WAY IN HELL BROTHER ! I call Bull Shit !
> 
> [url]http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/5302/bullshitdetector4.gif[/URL]
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Well the AVG temp for i7 2600k with its stock cooler is 30*C which happens to be the AVG Ambient Temperature(±1*C)

and that CPU cooler is probably not the stock cpu cooler(I don't remember seeing copper heatpipes on my AMD heatsinks)


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## trickson (Jun 9, 2011)

seronx said:


> Well the AVG temp for i7 2600k with its stock cooler is 30*C which happens to be the AVG Ambient Temperature(±1*C)
> 
> and that CPU cooler is probably not the stock cpu cooler



Whatever it is whatever is going on I will not believe it till I see some real world action not some half bald china man staring at a screen of windows system tools . And another thing 1.4 Vcore ? With all this going on I am taking it with a grain of salt as my bs meter is going off the scale !


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

trickson said:


> Whatever it is whatever is going on I will not believe it till I see some real world action not some half bald china man staring at a screen of windows system tools . And another thing 1.4 Vcore ? With all this going on I am taking it with a grain of salt as my bs meter is going off the scale !
> 
> [url]http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/5302/bullshitdetector4.gif[/URL]



The 1.4 volts to power the cpu you should take as a grain of salt since the redesign of the 990FX was higher the amps lower the volts thus making the 1.4 number false

then comes to the temps are being the same... The temperature reading there is the hottest component(the center of the CPU(That is where the sensor is at))

But yes take it as a grain of salt

Then you can go on to say that 

AMD FX is on the same fab process as the Intel fab process

Both are using a version of 32nm SOI HKMG

Both can have idles below 20*C as long as the Case Ambient is also below 20*C


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## trickson (Jun 9, 2011)

seronx said:


> The 1.4 volts to power the cpu you should take as a grain of salt since the redesign of the 990FX was higher the amps lower the volts thus making the 1.4 number false
> 
> then comes to the temps are being the same... The temperature reading there is the hottest component(the center of the CPU(That is where the sensor is at))
> 
> ...



Ok got ya . I still want real world tests done then I can be a true believer


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

trickson said:


> Ok got ya . I still want real world tests done then I can be a true believer



Which you will see next month(HardOCP Summer AMD Event+Reviewers) or in August/September(Release date+Reviewers)


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## xBruce88x (Jun 9, 2011)

seronx said:


> and that CPU cooler is probably not the stock cpu cooler(I don't remember seeing copper heatpipes on my AMD heatsinks)



AMD does make heatsinks with pipes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmD9jWYnQSQ


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## trickson (Jun 9, 2011)

seronx said:


> Which you will see next month(HardOCP Summer AMD Event+Reviewers) or in August/September(Release date+Reviewers)



I will be more believing when W1zzard has it in his hands or more TPU people get them . I have found out the hard way that others are just not as trust worthy .


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

xBruce88x said:


> AMD does make heatsinks with pipes...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmD9jWYnQSQ



AMD heatsinks had pipes since forever(My previous statements are wrong,(I never had a stock cpu cooler always buy OEM 

Well yep that is the AMD Stock cooler(E3 comp picture)

Darn you Zalman spoiling me with your Nickel-Diamond plated copper/aluminum


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## Melvis (Jun 9, 2011)

Gaming demo of Bulldozer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn2qcOweRYY&feature=player_embedded


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

Melvis said:


> Gaming demo of Bulldozer
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn2qcOweRYY&feature=player_embedded



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQtmri400SU

LegitReviews

Looks like the case has a huge 140mm or is that 120mm fan on top so that can help that stock cooler alot xD


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## xBruce88x (Jun 9, 2011)

Melvis said:


> Gaming demo of Bulldozer
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn2qcOweRYY&feature=player_embedded



I want that projector setup!



seronx said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQtmri400SU
> 
> LegitReviews
> 
> Looks like the case has a huge 140nm or is that 120nm fan on top so that can help that stock cooler alot xD



this is gonna sound dirty but...

aww i wanted to see how well that girl could drive a stick.


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

xBruce88x said:


> this is gonna sound dirty but...
> 
> aww i wanted to see how well that girl could drive a stick.




This is gonna sound awkward but....

I am more interested in the computer


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## xBruce88x (Jun 9, 2011)

well i'm interested in the computer too... that's kinda a given being i'm on TPU


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## Wile E (Jun 9, 2011)

btarunr said:


> For Phenom, AMD started hyping _Barcelona_ right when Intel released the Core 2 series. That hype campaign was a lot more aggressive. You had senior VPs of AMD publicly saying that Barcelona will "crush" Core 2.
> 
> That isn't happening now. The "FX" name first became public via leaks, AMD hasn't commented on performance to the public till now. When talking about the Bulldozer architecture, AMD avoided claiming it to be the fastest processor architecture, or something that will be the fastest in the market.
> 
> If AMD was confident that FX will lead, you can bet your bottom penny that they would have launched FX months ago, or would have made benchmarks public.



That's exactly what I think, bta.



HD64G said:


> Exactly!



Exactly wrong. A fan moving air does not cool the air. You cannot cool below ambient even with water cooling. You have to use a TEC, or phase, or something along those lines.



inferKNOX said:


> Probably outlandish, but definitely not impossible.
> The fans required to drop the pressure enough to significantly alter the internal temperature of a case would probably need to have impractically high strength and thus would probably be uncomfortably noisy.
> *It remains, however, physically possible to achieve such result.*



Not in the conditions present in a typical computer case. This theory is not taking into account the heat that the other components dump into the case.

The simple truth of the matter is, it is impossible for the layout shown to cool below ambient using standard heatsinks or even water cooling, and it is also impossible for the typical enthusiast to build a setup capable of cooling below ambient using only fans, and standard cooling.



pantherx12 said:


> No need for a heat exchanger.
> 
> Thing is he's right the fans needed would have to be phenomenal  *Basically if there is less hot objects in their ( atoms and such) then there will be less heat.
> *
> ...



But also less heat dissipation from the cpu heatsink, as there is less to carry it away.



seronx said:


> *SB only has 1 FPU per 2 threads as well
> *
> FLOPC is the same as SB at 256bit while in 128bit FX is 2x that of SB
> 
> ...



But Intel doesn't call it an 8 core.


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

Wile E said:


> But Intel doesn't call it an 8 core.



I can't explain the difference between

AMDs SMT and Intels SMT







As you can see AMD went from CMP to CMT

CMT is a form of SMT(Same under Taxonomy)

(Kinduh funny that they planned Bulldozer in a way since 2005)


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## bucketface (Jun 9, 2011)

seronx said:


> Looks like the case has a huge 140nm or is that 120nm fan on top so that can help that stock cooler alot xD



you mean 140mm (millimetres not nanometres)
so far bulludozer perf i can see, good enough for smooth play of dirt 3... so its at least as good as ph2. so nothing particularly new from e3 about bulldozer other than it works.


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## Melvis (Jun 9, 2011)

xBruce88x said:


> I want that projector setup!



I to would love to have that setup, thats how its done!


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

Melvis said:


> I to would love to have that setup, thats how its done!



http://nthusim.com/

That is how you get it(You need $489 for the Eyefinity model)


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## xBruce88x (Jun 9, 2011)

I think I'd put the projectors in Portrait layout though to fill the bottom up a bit as well.


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## Melvis (Jun 9, 2011)

seronx said:


> http://nthusim.com/
> 
> That is how you get it(You need $489 for the Eyefinity model)



Nice, but something tells me it will cost ALOT more over here in AUS


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## largon (Jun 9, 2011)

cdawall said:


> each core is adjustable volts wise on AMD server chips


Weird, I can't find anything on such tech on the net, including AMD home. 
All there is is common split power plane (Dual Dynamic Power Management) that is, dedicated voltage sources for (1) uncore and (2) cores.


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

What we know from E3:
System A:


> FX-8K
> 6990HD
> Crosshair V 990FX
> Dominator GT 4GB(2x2GB)@1600MHz


Can run:
Game A


> Dirt 3 @ 60FPS with a 7680x1600 Resolution


Game B(Not sure on the specs)


> Dragon Age 2 @ 60FPS with a 8000x2560 Resolution


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Jun 9, 2011)

seronx said:


> What we know from E3:
> System A:
> 
> Can run:
> ...



fixed

This really tells us nothing, given neither of those games are cpu intensive.


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## seronx (Jun 9, 2011)

[H]@RD5TUFF said:


> fixed
> 
> This really tells us nothing, given neither of those games are cpu intensive.









Ya GPU intensive








> ```
> Test System Specs
> - Intel Core i7 920 (Overclocked @ 3.70GHz)
> - x3 2GB G.Skill DDR3 PC3-12800 (CAS 8-8-8-20)
> ...



590GTX is getting CPU Bottlenecked rofl!!!

Dirt 3 is the first game built for FX I guess

Dragon Age 2 is GPU dependent

Dirt 3 is a CPU intensive game having a gpu is just a plus

I told techspot to use AMD more got the ban

Techspot doesn't seem to understand that intel doesn't scale well with the nvidia gpus(i7 920 @ stock beating a i7 2600K @ stock, proof, proof 2: i7 2500K @ stock getting beat by a i5 750 @ stock)

I have a request to TPU can you do a benchmark of a AMD Phenom II 1100T(and 980BE) and i7 2600K/2500K OC'ed to 3.7GHz with a 6970,6990,590GTX with a 3 monitor setup (7680x1600) for dirt 3 and get the fps list


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## fullinfusion (Jun 11, 2011)

seronx said:


> http://static.techspot.com/articles-info/403/bench/CPU2.png
> 
> Ya GPU intensive
> 
> ...



Im pretty sure that graph is a joke and been altered. Im sure cadaveca ran a few tests of his own and he thought it was weird because those results were different then his runs.


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## cadaveca (Jun 11, 2011)

fullinfusion said:


> Im pretty sure that graph is a joke and been altered. Im sure cadaveca ran a few tests of his own and he thought it was weird because those results were different then his runs.



Yep. I even installed Dirt3 on a review setup just to check it out.

results are very similar to this, although the difference is not as large. I think that when I redo some boards, I'll be swapping Dirt3 in for F1 2010, in fact...I want to replace Civ 5 too.I think I'll await bulldozer though, and do what board I have on hand then. I don't know that I'll keep every board.:








seronx said:


> 6970,6990,590GTX with a 3 monitor setup (7680x1600) for dirt 3 and get the fps list



Get me the videocards, and I'll see what I can do.


I'm actually part way through setting up eyefinity right this moment...was gonna shut this rig down and move it over to the triple monitors, but decided to check my mail first, and here I am. So I got the monitors, and the boards/cpus/rams.

I don't do videocard reviews, and never will, and W1zz doesn't do motherboard/CPU reviews, so that's kinda asking for a bit much. Also, asking for triple 30-inch numbers is a bit silly. Common triple setup is 5760x1080, which is what I got.


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