# To lose weight, have dessert for breakfast



## twilyth (Apr 4, 2012)

This has been widely reported in the popular press, but I'm presenting you with the good shit from from Eureka.org.  Not that watered down slop you get from the news.

A full breakfast that includes a sweet dessert contributes to weight loss success, say Tel Aviv University researchers



> When it comes to diets, cookies and cake are off the menu. Now, in a surprising discovery, researchers from Tel Aviv University have found that dessert, as part of a balanced 600-calorie breakfast that also includes proteins and carbohydrates, can help dieters to lose more weight — and keep it off in the long run.
> 
> They key is to indulge in the morning, when the body's metabolism is at its most active and we are better able to work off the extra calories throughout the day, say Prof. Daniela Jakubowicz, Dr. Julio Wainstein and Dr. Mona Boaz of Tel Aviv University's Sackler Faculty of Medicine and the Diabetes Unit at Wolfson Medical Center, and Prof. Oren Froy of Hebrew University Jerusalem.
> 
> ...


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## the54thvoid (Apr 4, 2012)

Very important for the study to be understood.  I can see some idiots misrepresenting this as having a dessert for breakfast keeps you slim.  The actual message is that a (non-specified) amount of a dessert/sweet combined with a nutritious breakfast will help stave off hunger in the long term.
I'd like to know how much 'dessert' was in the breakfast.  That composition is important for health reasons - i.e. diabetes.

Also, it was as part of a very calorie controlled diet.  It was the calories that caused the weight loss, not the dessert.  Allowing the dessert kept the psychological factors relating to addiction at bay, helping the diet succeed.


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## Frick (Apr 4, 2012)

the54thvoid said:


> Also, it was as part of a very calorie controlled diet.  It was the calories that caused the weight loss, not the dessert.  Allowing the dessert kept the psychological factors relating to addiction at bay, helping the diet succeed.



this and this. imo the best way to loosing weight is to control your intake and how much you burn, through balansed meals and excercise (walks counts). it's what holds up in the long run. of course if there's extreme obesety involved drastic measures would be appropiate.


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## twilyth (Apr 4, 2012)

Those are good points, but you can't rely on will power 24/7.  That's the situation some people are in.  It's hard for me to fathom and hard probably for most people to fathom.

Will power is important, but imperfect.  It is only one element in the equation.


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## qubit (Apr 4, 2012)

Haven't had a chance to read it yet and I'm off out now, but coming from you, I know it's good.


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## twilyth (Apr 4, 2012)

qubit said:


> Haven't had a chance to read it yet and I'm off out now, but coming from you, I know it's good.



Thanks Q.  You made me realize that although they talk about ghrelin, they don't really explain what it is, what it does or how it relates to the appetite control system.  I wouldn't attempt an explanation on my own, so I poked around for something that gives a good overview and found this from Weight Watchers.



> *Leptin, Ghrelin, Cortisol and Weight*
> 
> We take a look at leptin, ghrelin and cortisol, three of the most talked about hormones related to weight and weight-related behaviors.
> Article By: The Weight Watchers Research Department
> ...


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## Frick (Apr 4, 2012)

twilyth said:


> Those are good points, but you can't rely on will power 24/7.  That's the situation some people are in.  It's hard for me to fathom and hard probably for most people to fathom.
> 
> Will power is important, but imperfect.  It is only one element in the equation.



Well of course, but in the end everything short of those stomach operations are about willpower. And then there are ways to make it easier on yourself, having a small snack to your morning coffee is a good way to do just that.


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## twilyth (Apr 4, 2012)

Frick said:


> Well of course, but in the end everything short of those stomach operations are about willpower. And then there are ways to make it easier on yourself, having a small snack to your morning coffee is a good way to do just that.



No, it's not that simple.  You're assuming that everyone else has the same appetite control mechanism that you do and that it functions in the same way.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  It's like comparing a Trabant to a Ferrari.  Both are cars, but have little else in common.

Please read my previous post and you will see what I mean.


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## erocker (Apr 4, 2012)

No, I think you can rely on "willpower" 24/7. The mind can be the strongest organ in your body. Have a balanced diet, exercise and you won't have to worry about losing weight. Better yet, if you want to "trick" your metabolism, eat fruit in the morning. Natural is healthier and better for you.


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## twilyth (Apr 4, 2012)

erocker said:


> No, I think you can rely on "willpower" 24/7. The mind can be the strongest organ in your body. Have a balanced diet, exercise and you won't have to worry about losing weight. Better yet, if you want to "trick" your metabolism, eat fruit in the morning. Natural is healthier and better for you.



OK.  I'll rely on your wisdom rather than that of the NIH.  That's probably a smart move anyway.


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## Black Panther (Apr 4, 2012)

erocker said:


> No, I think you can rely on "willpower" 24/7. The mind can be the strongest organ in your body. Have a *balanced diet, exercise* and you won't have to worry about losing weight. Better yet, if you want to "trick" your metabolism, eat fruit in the morning.* Natural is healthier *and better for you.



I took the liberty to bold the very true parts. 

My husband tests his blood at 7:00AM before eating or drinking anything and his sugar is up to 9.5mmol/L. Not good...
He tests it again at midday after eating 2 oranges, and it's down to 5mmol/L.
Recently he started exercising on the cross-trainer and got it down to 4.8mmol/L, which is perfectly normal.


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## twilyth (Apr 4, 2012)

Black Panther said:


> I took the liberty to bold the very true parts.
> 
> My husband tests his blood at 7:00AM before eating anything and his sugar is up to 9.5mmol/L. Not good...
> He tests it again at midday after eating 2 oranges, and it's down to 5mmol/L.
> Recently he started exercising on the cross-trainer and got it down to 4.8mmol/L.



That's because your liver produces glucose from fat in the absence of dietary glucose.


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## Black Panther (Apr 4, 2012)

twilyth said:


> That's because your liver produces glucose from fat in the absence of dietary glucose.



That argument doesn't make sense because why doesn't that happen to him after he's fasting 10+ hours? There'd be no dietary glucose, no?


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## erocker (Apr 4, 2012)

Black Panther said:


> That argument doesn't make sense because why doesn't that happen to him after he's fasting 10+ hours? There'd be no dietary glucose, no?



No, it's true. I'm a diabetic and my blood sugar will spike after waking up. The liver is somewhat programmed to release glucose when waking up naturally to.. I suppose kick-start your body by giving it a bit of energy.



twilyth said:


> OK.  I'll rely on your wisdom rather than that of the NIH.  That's probably a smart move anyway. http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x206/twilyth/smileys/thumbs_up.gif http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x206/twilyth/smileys/thumbs_up.gif http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x206/twilyth/smileys/thumbs_up.gif



C'mon now, fruit can be a dessert. The mind can control the rest. I've been doing it for years. Willpower isn't as hard as people make it out to be. I quit hard drugs using the same method.


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## the54thvoid (Apr 4, 2012)

erocker said:


> Willpower isn't as hard as people make it out to be. I quit hard drugs using the same method.



There is something endearing about that statement after spending 17 years facing people looking for the easiest least effort way out of being unfit/overweight or wanting to get 'buff'.

I've not eaten chocolate for two years through willpower - now it's part of my life (or the absence of it is).

Yet can i give up internet pronography? 

Incidentally erocker, what catalyst drivers you use? I put a post in AMD forum, I've got a 7970 coming tomorrow.  Sorry for OT.


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## erocker (Apr 4, 2012)

the54thvoid said:


> There is something endearing about that statement after spending 17 years facing people looking for the easiest least effort way out of being unfit/overweight or wanting to get 'buff'.
> 
> I've not eaten chocolate for two years through willpower - now it's part of my life (or the absence of it is).
> 
> ...



I stick to the WHQL's . Pretty sure they're 12.3's at the moment. Whatever AMD tells me to install. Can't say I have a single issue with them.


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## Black Panther (Apr 4, 2012)

erocker said:


> The liver is somewhat programmed to release glucose when waking up naturally to.. I suppose kick-start your body by giving it a bit of energy.



Thanks I never knew about that.
I am serious, our doc said that the lowest ever glucose reading was after fasting 10 hours but I don't believe him 
It makes no sense for my husband to be a borderline diabetic early in the morning and then be "normal" throughout the day and the following night. (He's been testing 4 times daily and the worst one is just upon waking up in the morning).

On the other hand, my own readings are always 3 point-something whenever I take a reading. A friend nurse told me they're low. I do feel very dizzy occasionally but thought it was low blood pressure. But whenever I checked my blood pressure it was always 75/120 and that's supposed to be normal isn't it?


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## erocker (Apr 4, 2012)

Black Panther said:


> Thanks I never knew about that.
> I am serious, our doc said that the lowest ever glucose reading was after fasting 10 hours but I don't believe him
> It makes no sense for my husband to be a borderline diabetic early in the morning and then be "normal" throughout the day and the following night. (He's been testing 4 times daily and the worst one is just upon waking up in the morning).
> 
> On the other hand, my own readings are always 3 point-something whenever I take a reading. A friend nurse told me they're low. I do feel very dizzy occasionally but thought it was low blood pressure. But whenever I checked my blood pressure it was always 75/120 and that's supposed to be normal isn't it?



Yes, it seems as if you are a little hyperglycemic, that would cause the dizziness. Does this happen during certain times of the day? Blood pressure looks good to me.


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## W1zzard (Apr 4, 2012)

every time i see this thread in new posts i want to go grab some cookies. end up being too lazy


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 4, 2012)

erocker said:


> Yes, it seems as if you are a little hyperglycemic, that would cause the dizziness. Does this happen during certain times of the day? Blood pressure looks good to me.



living up to the super mod tag their dude

is a diet of mostly desert good or bad then


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## niko084 (Apr 4, 2012)

I think the biggest thing here is eat a big breakfast... It's healthier for many reasons, smallest meal at night. You wont find a nutritionist to argue that I'll bet, I sure haven't...


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## Black Panther (Apr 4, 2012)

W1zzard said:


> every time i see this thread in new posts i want to go grab some cookies. end up being too lazy


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## cadaveca (Apr 4, 2012)

W1zzard said:


> every time i see this thread in new posts i want to go grab some cookies. end up being too lazy



So your diet consists of being lazy? 





I went from 210 lbs to 150 lbs in 2 months with exercise and diet changes. Now I'm down to 135, which is where I should be according to my doc. With 4 kids, we eat very well-balanced meals, and almost no junk food, no pop, and very little sugar. We all eat 3-4 pieces of fruit per day, and snacking is usually home-baked stuff, where we can control what gets put into stuff.

I think back to when I was 210, and back then, I was lazy, but now that I'm in fantastic shape, I have to keep moving as I find I have TOO MUCH energy at times.

What's funny about all of this is that I usually have a pear or an orange with my breakfast, which fits fit the articles "dessert with breakfast" idea, and it really has paid off for me, but on my part, that's pure fluke... I just like eating fruit in the morning!


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## _ALB_R3D X (Apr 4, 2012)

erocker said:


> Yes, it seems as if you are a little hyperglycemic, that would cause the dizziness. Does this happen during certain times of the day? Blood pressure looks good to me.



Now that I'm thinkin about it,I feel a bit strange,dizzy or tired everyday at the same time..aroun 14.00 - 15.00 and all goes away after eating something or having a coffee!
Lately I thought it was because I just quit on smoking and maybe it's a side effect but maybe is hyperglycemi???


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 4, 2012)

imho thats the best pic ive seen all week and a worthy avatar for me

imho people are hung up on being hungry when it like pain is a natural normal part of being alive and something worth learning to truley accept ,you will yearn ,it will hurt.
 and my BM<I is 19.5 ,so the cakes arent killing me yet


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## phanbuey (Apr 4, 2012)

cadaveca said:


> So your diet consists of being lazy?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow that's an incredible amount of weight loss.

Also, diets of being lazy actually work great.  My gf was out of town for two weeks visiting her family, and I was too lazy to cook anything, and was usually in the middle of a game... ended up living off sandwiches and oatmeal for two weeks... didn't even notice but I had dropped close to 10lbs


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## cadaveca (Apr 4, 2012)

That's what everyone says, but I was very much overweight, clearly, if my doc tells me 135 is perfect. I went from serious overeating, I guess, to minimal calorie intake, and started doing cardio only, rather than weight training. I started drinking lots of water too.

The last 15 pounds, however, took years of work to get rid of. Actually, a big part of that was in the past few months, when I stopped drinking beer. I will be going for surgery soon, so I wanted to be in perfect health pre-op so that the recovery is easier. Seems my body reacts in a big way to whatever i put i it. Go figure!


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## DannibusX (Apr 5, 2012)

I'm currently changing my diet and by far the hardest thing for me to quit is soda.  Shit's the devil.  The health benefits far outweigh the deliciousness that is Coke though.

Hmmm.  Maybe swap Coke for coke and call it a day?


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## AnomalouS (Apr 5, 2012)

DannibusX said:


> I'm currently changing my diet and by far the hardest thing for me to quit is soda.  Shit's the devil.  The health benefits far outweigh the deliciousness that is Coke though.
> 
> Hmmm.  Maybe swap Coke for coke and call it a day?




you mean replace 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 with 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Not sure it works out in the long run..


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## Frick (Apr 5, 2012)

twilyth said:


> No, it's not that simple.  You're assuming that everyone else has the same appetite control mechanism that you do and that it functions in the same way.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  It's like comparing a Trabant to a Ferrari.  Both are cars, but have little else in common.
> 
> Please read my previous post and you will see what I mean.



I really don't assume that. We're all different, but a balanced regulated intake and excercise (based on yourself of course) will make you loose weight. And yes there are hormones doing stuff but we don't know much about that, and the author of the list you posted tells you the same story. The amount of food you eat and the amount of exercise must vary from person to person of course, but that's still what it's about.

And of course it's about willpower. If you don't care and you don't want to loose weight, how are you supposed to do it? Can you learn to play the guitar even if you don't want to and isn't interested in doing so? It is what it comes down to, and then of course there are ways to make help you on the way, but in the end it's up to you, me and everyone.

Now sometimes doing those hyperdiets for a while can be good to make you break a cycle. But if you want to stay healthy in the long run without eating/drinking additions you have to have a balanced, moderate diet and do moderate exercise.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Apr 5, 2012)

Or dessert before bed. It's been noted for a few years now that for some people having ice cream before bed can lead to weight loss. I couldn't tell you if it needs to be a certain type or what the rules are for this as I don't think it's been properly studied, but I've experienced it personally.


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## twilyth (Apr 5, 2012)

Frick said:


> I really don't assume that. We're all different, but a balanced regulated intake and excercise (based on yourself of course) will make you loose weight. And yes there are hormones doing stuff but we don't know much about that, and the author of the list you posted tells you the same story. The amount of food you eat and the amount of exercise must vary from person to person of course, but that's still what it's about.
> 
> And of course it's about willpower. If you don't care and you don't want to loose weight, how are you supposed to do it? Can you learn to play the guitar even if you don't want to and isn't interested in doing so? It is what it comes down to, and then of course there are ways to make help you on the way, but in the end it's up to you, me and everyone.
> 
> Now sometimes doing those hyperdiets for a while can be good to make you break a cycle. But if you want to stay healthy in the long run without eating/drinking additions you have to have a balanced, moderate diet and do moderate exercise.


As always in this particular context, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone.  I'm only trying to provide perspective and balance - sorta like what you just did.


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## The_Ish (Apr 7, 2012)

the54thvoid said:


> Also, it was as part of a very calorie controlled diet.  *It was the calories that caused the weight loss, not the dessert*.  Allowing the dessert kept the psychological factors relating to addiction at bay, helping the diet succeed.



You'd be surprised how little people know on the subject.


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