# Build A versus build B (with visual illustration): Which will be cooler?



## Emiliano85 (Jan 6, 2020)

Hi guys.

Okay finally i have narrowed down all the components for my new build. Last thing though, is i keep going back and forth between air cooling and having a more "boring" look, or aio cooling with a fantastic looking rig (imo anyway).

Initially i swore to a clean, closed-case look with no rgb. Just a discrete monster of a machine. But underway while doing my research for parts, cases and general setup of a new build (as this is my first), i fell in love with the look of the Lian Li O11 Dynamic. So now i can't make up my mind, one day i wake up ready to order all the parts for setup A, and the next i feel for going all in on setup B.

It must be said that i usually prefer quality over looks, but as i stated the Lian Li case really caught my eye - and if i can manage to keep the performance of my finished setup in that case on par, or only slightly "worse" (hotter) than building in an air cooled Define R6, i would prefer to go for it. But if the setup A below will be much hotter than setup B, i will not risk it and go with the latter, ditching the "good looks" in return of superior performance/cooling.

I know exactly how i want both setups, i simply can't decide which one to go for, and therefore could use a little feedback from some of you with good experience in building. I will not be OC'ing (at least not for now) and will use the machine for everyday work (light to medium video editing, photoshop and normal office use) + some gaming from time to time. Please spare me the "overkill" comments, and save them for another good time .

These are the components going into the build regardless if i go air or aio (*marked with green borders in the illustration further down*):

_* Text marked in bold are already bought, waiting to be used
(X) Number before each component in this list, is to show location in illustration further down _

(1) Motherboard: ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Hero Wifi x570
(2) CPU: *AMD Ryzen 3950x*
(3) GPU: *ASUS GeForce RTX 2080 Ti ROG STRIX OC 11GB*
(4) Ram: 64 GB G. Skill Trident Z Neo DDR4-3600MHz CL16-19-19-39
(5) Storage: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB SSD
(6) Additional storage: Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB SSD
(7) PSU: Corsair RM850 (2019 model)
So this is the base, no matter if i go left and right from here.

Now to the tricky part. I will add the parts from list A if i go aio, or the parts from list B if i go air. *All have been marked with yellow borders in the illustrations.*

*Setup A: Lian Li O11 Dynamic - Water (aio) cooled:*

(8A) AIO: Deepcool Castle 360EX - *top-mounted *(≤17.8 dB)
(9A) Rad fans: 3 x 120 mm. specially tuned TF120S PWM stock fans (500~1800 RPM±10%, 64.4 CFM, 2.33 mmAq, ≤32.1 dB) - *exhaust*
(10A) Side/front fans: 3 x 120 mm. Antec Prizm 120 ARGB PWM fans (500~2000 RPM±10%, 45.1 CFM, 2.56 mmAq, ≤32.6 dB) - *intake*
(11A) Bottom fans: 3 x 120 mm. Noctua NF-S12A PWM Chromax fans (700~1200 RPM±10%, 63.2 CFM, 1.19 mmAq, ≤17.8 dB) - *intake*
Thinking of adding 1 x 80 mm. Noctua NF-A8 PWM Chromax fan as exhaust in the back if needed.

*Setup B: Fractal Define R6 - Air cooled:*

(8B) Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 Chromax (≤0 dB?)
(9B) Rad fans: 2 x 140 mm. Noctua NF-A15 HS-PWM Chromax stock fans (max. 1500 RPM±10%, 82.5 CFM, 2.08 mmAq, ≤24.6 dB)
(10B) Front fans: 2 x 140 mm. Noctua NF-A14 PWM Chromax fans (max. 1500 RPM±10%, 82.5 CFM, 2.08 mmAq, ≤24.6 dB) - *intake*
(11B) Back fan: 1 x 140 mm. Noctua NF-A14 PWM Chromax fan (max. 1500 RPM±10%, 82.5 CFM, 2.08 mmAq, ≤24.6 dB) - *exhaust*
So to the million dollar question(s):

Which build will be cooler in general?
Which build will be quieter in general?
What will the estimated differences roughly be in temperatures between the two?
Under build A (Lian Li with aio): Would you add a 10th fan in the back (the 80 mm. Noctua NF-A8 PWM Chromax)?
Any (not radical) tweak suggestions are welcome.
Thanks in advance .


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## dirtyferret (Jan 6, 2020)

Which build will be cooler in general? *the Lian Li with the 3 x 120MM fan AiO cooler*
Which build will be quieter in general? *the R6 with less fans at lower RPM and the Noctua cooler*
What will the estimated differences roughly be in temperatures between the two?* maybe 3-5c on the CPU and a wash on the GPU (nothing game breaking) *
Under build A (Lian Li with aio): Would you add a 10th fan in the back (the 80 mm. Noctua NF-A8 PWM Chromax)? *yes more on that below*
Any suggestions (not radical) changes are welcome.
The R6 is built for silence not air flow so if cooler temps are your priority then its a simple choice.  It's not that the R6 is a bad case, its an excellent case, but you would be relying on two front silts to create adequate intake air flow.  If you want an R6 with air flow, get the Meshify v2 or the Phanteks P600s.

That said on the Lian Li; bottom front fan and the bottom side are going to be fighting each other.  You may actually get lower GPU temps with no fans on the bottom and just let the GPU fans suck air in from the vented PCI slot covers and open bottom (maybe one fan to help bring in air on the bottom but away from the side fans).

GN did some tests and the side fans clearly help the GPU more then the bottom fans






I would also definitely add a rear fan even if it is a 80mm.


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## oobymach (Jan 6, 2020)

12 fans vs 7, air cooled will be quieter because of that, but I would liquid cool it if you're seriously considering the 3950x because of higher overclocking potential.


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## Emiliano85 (Jan 6, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Which build will be cooler in general? *the Lian Li with the 3 x 120MM fan AiO cooler*
> Which build will be quieter in general? *the R6 with less fans at lower RPM and the Noctua cooler*
> What will the estimated differences roughly be in temperatures between the two?* maybe 3-5c on the CPU and a wash on the GPU (nothing game breaking) *
> Under build A (Lian Li with aio): Would you add a 10th fan in the back (the 80 mm. Noctua NF-A8 PWM Chromax)? *yes more on that below*
> ...



Thanks for your inputs dirtyferret, appreciated!

I've been looking at the Meshify S2 (i suppose that's the one you refer to right?), but ditched it last minut only because of the looks compared to the R6 - if i go air with this build, i want it as clean and minimalistic as possible, and i find the R6 cleaner looking than the S2 - primarily because of the mesh in front of the latter, which i'm not sure what to think about. But would definetely consider it, if you tell me it would dramatically lower temps compared to the R6. What are your estimations be on temp change if i go S2? Aio solution still cooler or?

In regards of the airflow in the Lian Li, i did consider the interuption of air in the lower right hand corner with my setup. I went with the 3 fans on bottom per HardwareCanucks video below, and general reviews on the best fan setup for the Lian Li O11:










Would having a softer airflow (less RPM) from one of the directions not help - let's say the air from below is being pushed harder than the one from the side - according to my (limited) case fan knowledge, i would assume the bottom intake air would "beat" the side/front intake, resulting in 1) Good GPU cooling and 2) cool air reaching high up in the case (at least from the bottom fan on the right), where it will be pushed towards the left, assisted by the rear 80 mm. exhasut fan, which would pull the air over the CPU/ram/heatsink area. Or am i wrong here?

Also one thing i'm a little worried about: The 3 front aRGB fans i would go for if i choose the Lian Li setup (Antec Prizm) look fantastic, and are one of very few decently performing fans with both Aura Sync and the rgb ring style (which i really like) on both sides of the fan (a must here as they will be set on intake) - but they are not entirely fantastic fans (Noctua, Be Silent ect. league) - would they be ok for the job still? I have considered Corsairs QL120 but they are equally "decent", cost a lot more (even though budget is not an issue) and won't sync with the rest of the rgb in my system. Alternatively i could go for the Thermaltake Riing Trio ones, they will sync with an additional controller of theirs, but from benchmarks they perform a little worse than the Prizm ones (45.1 vs 41.13 CFM), and are maybe also a little too bright for my liking.



oobymach said:


> 12 fans vs 7, air cooled will be quieter because of that, but I would liquid cool it if you're seriously considering the 3950x because of higher overclocking potential.



Not neccesarily?

With more fans i guess i would be able to run them all on lower RPM = less noise, contrary fewer fans which would have to work harder each to reach the same level of cooling = more noise?

Excuse me if i'm being wrong here, as mentioned i'm new to building. It's just the general impression i've got from doing less vs. more fans research.


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## Vayra86 (Jan 6, 2020)

This is an assumption, but I think you need to let go of the 'more fans is always better' idea in your head.

Airflow and most other things in a PC are about efficiency and balance, not sheer amount. A smart setup and a 'less is more' approach tends to work fairly well most of the time. Another rule of thumb is that of diminishing returns, it happens big time with anything you do past the norm or trying to get past 'temperature equilibrium' or try to lower the temp at which that happens. A good example is fan speeds. The gain from going to 100% fan is minimal at best, over a non-jetplane like speed.

The norm is 2x front IN / 1x back OUT. Anything on top of that needs to have a specific purpose. The reality is that air is everywhere and your case is the warmer part of the room so simple physics will do your work for you. You only want to assist them and remove obstruction (=efficiency).

I cannot tell you in detail which setup will be cooler specifically for these parts. But some considerations I do have;

- Pick ONE airflow direction and shy away from multiple *intake *airflow directions. Having a second intake at a 90 degree angle is bad. Outtake not so much; hot air just needs to go out asap. That is why you see exhaust at the top for AIOs, because GPU heat will already 'fill' the outtake at the back; you risk capturing heat above the GPU.

- Bottom > top airflows have a general problem and that is you are passing cool intake past the hottest and usually highest TDP part in your PC. If the GPU works, it usually takes all of its TDP budget. The CPU however is much more efficient most of the time and has far more idle time. Furthermore, that cool intake is then blocked by a bulky GPU before reaching the CPU. Additionally, the heat coming from the GPU back(plate) gets little to no airflow either and rises to the CPU heatsink.

- Front intake has the advantage of providing the same cool air to both GPU and CPU as you use the entire front height. No obstructions either.

- Side fan for GPU is usually spotted around the second half toward the back of the case; basically, your front intake is already turning into an outtake there, and the side fan just provides some extra cool air to the rear end of the GPU, and then quickly flows to the outtakes. Its barely an obstruction but I'd only use one if you see above the norm GPU temps, and only AFTER having added more front intakes.

All said and done, but this is personal preference; the AIO route will give you little gain, even for overclocking. If you want to chase low temps, get a custom loop. If you want to chase silence, go the Noctua / dualstack tower air build. An AIO really isn't something I'd recommend easily over air and if you're on the fence, don't even think further about it, stick to air. Its cheaper, quieter, easier to repair and clean, and it lasts.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 6, 2020)

aio pump running along 3x120mm fans = forget about quiet.

the noise from 140mm airflow optimized fans sounds completely different than 120mm pressure optimized fans and the aio pump.

I'd rather put two quality 140mm fans in my case than have 4 of any fans.
d15s on the CPU and 1x140mm intake + 1x140mm exhaust with SilentWings3.Top cover open.Front dust filter off.


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## dirtyferret (Jan 6, 2020)

Emiliano85 said:


> Thanks for your inputs dirtyferret, appreciated!
> 
> I've been looking at the Meshify S2 (i suppose that's the one you refer to right?), but ditched it last minut only because of the looks compared to the R6 - if i go air with this build, i want it as clean and minimalistic as possible, and i find the R6 cleaner looking than the S2 - primarily because of the mesh in front of the latter, which i'm not sure what to think about. But would definetely consider it, if you tell me it would dramatically lower temps compared to the R6. What are your estimations be on temp change if i go S2? Aio solution still cooler or?



I have a Phanteks P400 with both a closed front (with two slits for air intake) and a mesh front.  My CPU temps drop 5c with the mesh front.  Unless you are chasing the best OC possible or have major heat issues, 5C is not a major real world difference.  That said, if you want a minimal clean look to your case then get one.




Emiliano85 said:


> In regards of the airflow in the Lian Li, i did consider the interuption of air in the lower right hand corner with my setup. I went with the 3 fans on bottom per HardwareCanucks video below, and general reviews on the best fan setup for the Lian Li O11:



I enjoy Hardware canucks videos as well but they are more for style and less for substance.  The six fan set up looks sweet if you like RGB but I would go three fans and one rear exhaust for performance.



Emiliano85 said:


> Would having a softer airflow (less RPM) from one of the directions not help - let's say the air from below is being pushed harder than the one from the side - according to my (limited) case fan knowledge, i would assume the bottom intake air would "beat" the side/front intake, resulting in 1) Good GPU cooling and 2) cool air reaching high up in the case (at least from the bottom fan on the right), where it will be pushed towards the left, assisted by the rear 80 mm. exhasut fan, which would pull the air over the CPU/ram/heatsink area. Or am i wrong here?



Think of airflow as people entering and leaving a stadium or theater.  If I have one entrance heading into a second entrance like the side/bottom fan set up then people are going to knock each other over and you will get a big mess of people in one area with no where to go. Same thing happens in cases.  The best set up is a clear entry point with a smooth transition to a clear exit point.

GPUs are a mixed bag since video cards with multiple fans use the back of the case (your vented PCI slot covers) as a way to pull in outside cooler air as well as the front of the case and bottom of the case.  Having a high RPM case fan blow into the GPU fans can be counter productive especially if the GPU fans have easy access to outside air.

If I was going AIO with the Lian Li I would set it up with three side fans and no fans on the bottom.  The GN results above show this as the best set up.  I would then install a rear exhaust fan as well.

If I was going Air Cooler in the Lian LI (its limited in height to many coolers) then I would go with three fans on the bottom for intake and three fans on the top for outake (like the old Silverstone Raven case) and leave the side open.   That said I'm not crazy over that case for air cooling and would not be shocked if three fans on the side still beat the bottom to top air path.

The Antec fans are fine and this that is coming from a Noctua fan (no pun intended)


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## Emiliano85 (Jan 6, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> I have a Phanteks P400 with both a closed front (with two slits for air intake) and a mesh front.  My CPU temps drop 5c with the mesh front.  That said unless you are chasing the best OC possible or have major heat issues, 5C is not a major real world difference.  That said, if you want a minimal clean look to your case then get one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks again. 

So if i go 3 x intake on front/side, AIO with rad exhaust on top, and 1 x 80 mm. exhaust in the back - you still think the Prizms will be enough?


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## dirtyferret (Jan 6, 2020)

Emiliano85 said:


> Thanks again.
> 
> So if i go 3 x intake on front/side, AIO with rad exhaust on top, and 1 x 80 mm. exhaust in the back - you still think the Prizms will be enough?



Plenty, that is a good set up.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 6, 2020)

Everything depends on how the room temperature is.


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## Emiliano85 (Jan 6, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Everything depends on how the room temperature is.



Room temps 21-23 degrees. But i'm looking for difference in temps between the two, not a certain number for total temp of the setups.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 6, 2020)

1st Setup.


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## cucker tarlson (Jan 6, 2020)

Imo get x62 280mm over the 360mm from deepcool


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## Emiliano85 (Jan 6, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> Imo get x62 280mm over the 360mm from deepcool


Almost no difference as far as i see on several tests. Also the Castle syncs with Asus Aura, which Kraken unfortunately doesn't. Also i don't feel for installing mallware for fun (CAM). Was my second choice though (until i read about CAM), together with the Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML360R.









						Deepcool Gamerstorm Castle 240EX AIO review
					

Today, we are reviewing an AIO cooler from Deepcool: the Castle 240 EX. It’s one of two variants (the bigger is 360 mm) of the new series. Both are equipped with Deepcool’s exclusi... Core i7 8700K baseline test




					www.guru3d.com
				









						Deepcool CASTLE 360EX 64.4 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
					






					pcpartpicker.com
				












						Deepcool Castle 360EX Review
					

Deepcool Castle 360ex Review has a 360mm radiator with three new TF120S fans. The dimension of the radiator large in size.




					tech4gamers.com


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## potato580+ (Jan 6, 2020)

both looks good, i would say both yes


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## bonehead123 (Jan 6, 2020)

80mm fan ?  ewwww....yuk......puke...... who the hell uses these nowadays anyways (other than some  low life junk parts salesmen and/or bargin basement chino-knockoffs,)

Since you appear to like 120mm fans, stick with them all over, to keep everything balanced & symmetrical.

Both of the set-ups look as thought they will do well, but if you ask a 1000 people here, which you have done, you will most likely get about a 50-50 response ratio for one or the other rig......

Personally, I prefer the AIO set-up, based solely on my own experiences over the past 20 yrs or so, but then again, thats just me, hehehe ..........


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jan 6, 2020)

More fans doesnt always mean cooler depending on fans / airflow etc you can result in worse temps as fans compete with or cause distortions in airflow.

As for the AIO vs Noctua cooler, well the two actually trade blows (reviewed both) and suffice to say while they trade blows the Noctua is far quieter when both are pushed hard. 43 dBA vs 46 dBA.

Realistically speaking the AIO with extra fans in the Dynamic case will look pretty but otherwise is a worthless investment that won't generate any discernible difference. 

And since you have 3 intakes on bottom and 3 on the side that results in positive pressure which typically for me in my own testing results in greater dust build up. The setup will also result in more dust sticking to the glass panel making it appear dirty rather quickly. Where as a balanced Intake / exhaust or more exhaust typically means the exhaust fans collect the dust meaning a quick hit with some compressed air and a vac on the other side of the opening takes care of it quick and easy. 

Eitherway temperature wise both systems will be about the same CPU wise, GPU wise the Dynamic will be a bit lower but not enough to matter.


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## dirtyferret (Jan 6, 2020)

bonehead123 said:


> 80mm fan ?  ewwww....yuk......puke...... who the hell uses these nowadays anyways (other than some  low life junk parts salesmen and/or bargin basement chino-knockoffs,)



Perhaps if you sent a strongly worded letter to Lian Li case design they can fix the issue


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 6, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Perhaps if you sent a strongly worded letter to Lian Li case design they can fix the issue


They did, the 011 dynamic had no fan fit point at all , newer versions (not sure if they changed number) have room for a rear fan upto 120mm afaik and the case is bigger in some areas allowing a rad to more easily fit at the bottom.
I have a pc011 dynamic with custom cooling but either way I would run my air the same , 3 in fans(120) at the bottom and the side and top as exhaust (mine are both radiatorsx360).
The bottom fans and top rad are primarily linked to Gpu temp with the rear one cooling the cpu, works well.


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## Emiliano85 (Jan 6, 2020)

bonehead123 said:


> 80mm fan ?  ewwww....yuk......puke...... who the hell uses these nowadays anyways (other than some  low life junk parts salesmen and/or bargin basement chino-knockoffs,)
> 
> Since you appear to like 120mm fans, stick with them all over, to keep everything balanced & symmetrical.


Because the case doesnt support fans In the back. Even mounting the 80 mm. would have  to be a homemade custom solution which might just work. Anything bigger Will not fit there.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jan 6, 2020)

Emiliano85 said:


> Because the case doesnt support fans In the back. Even mounting the 80 mm. would have  to be a homemade custom solution which might just work. Anything bigger Will not fit there.


Ghetto Modding is in most every geeks blood.

Choosing a case is always a PITA, some cases are better for watercooling like the R6 while the chosen Lian Li is ok for both. Having said that, knowing what components you have or want to install and how you want to cool it ( air/water) should be decided before choosing a case. Also, you want to consider future upgrades, like going from AIO to full custom loops.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 6, 2020)

Emiliano85 said:


> Because the case doesnt support fans In the back. Even mounting the 80 mm. would have  to be a homemade custom solution which might just work. Anything bigger Will not fit there.


It's not worth it, fitting the 80mm , it is a bit of an all or nothing case , I've been thinking about how i might fill it if I were you and honestly I would go aio at the beside the motherboard to back rad mount , the bottom and top fitted with 3x120 each, it would look as cool as is possible with max aio on show.
And three top and bottom fans with reasonably equal cross flow will cool excellent regardless of what's going inside, it really is the Optimal setup surpassing mine since fitting Any rad at the top restricts airflow and hence increases noise.
When it comes to cooling getting the heat out quickest and in a direct and short path leafs to minimalised noise and energy(to cool) use.


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## oxrufiioxo (Jan 6, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Perhaps if you sent a strongly worded letter to Lian Li case design they can fix the issue



The O11 XL fits a 120mm fan in back that's their answer to the 80mm regular version.


@Emiliano85 if budget isn't an issues buy both setups test them out and see what you like better. I vote first build but with the XL version of the case.


I Couldn't find any 3950X results with either cooler but the 3900X results with that Captain cooler which should be pretty identical if not a little lower on the 3950X are impressive.


If you run stock settings it seems you can run the cooler around 1100 rpm and only hit 71C pretty good stuff for an hour long blender test.


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## Vayra86 (Jan 7, 2020)

Be wary with those Deepcool Castles. Apparently its a new sort of pump. And as always, new is risky. That said, the x62's have Asetek pumps and while pretty quiet, are not fantastic and definitely have finite lifespans. Reading about the Castle, nowhere do I read they get fantastic results over high end air. In some cases the air setups do better, even, on recent CPUs.

Basically, you're paying a lot of money for bling bling and no additional performance plus finite lifespan. Be aware that is what you're doing. If that's fine, its fine. The system will run fine regardless of choice. My summary here is that you're making an awful lot of sacrifices for cosmetics, and that includes the case choice wrt the Lian Li.


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## oxrufiioxo (Jan 7, 2020)

These are the best professional results I could find with similar coolers. Keep in mind they do these test on an open test bench so results in any case regardless of how good the airflow is will be higher. 






						Review: AMD Ryzen 9 3950X - CPU - HEXUS.net - Page 11
					






					m.hexus.net
				





Also the 011 dynamic beats the R6 even at air cooling with 3-4 fans. 









						Lian Li O11 Dynamic XL Case Review & Benchmarks
					

The O11 Air variant impressed us somewhat less, but improved substantially when the dust filtration was removed. Now, in 2019, Lian Li is introducing the O11 XL, a larger version of the original case, still bearing the Der8auer badge for his initial work on the O11 Dynamic.  -




					www.gamersnexus.net


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## bonehead123 (Jan 7, 2020)

Emiliano85 said:


> Because the case doesnt support fans In the back. Even mounting the 80 mm. would have  to be a homemade custom solution which might just work. Anything bigger Will not fit there.



WORD:  Dremel......

And as D-T-G said "Ghetto Modding is in most every geeks blood" hehehe ...........


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## dirtyferret (Jan 7, 2020)

bonehead123 said:


> WORD:  Dremel......
> 
> And as D-T-G said "Ghetto Modding is in most every geeks blood" hehehe ...........



I'm not sure a rotary tool will do much good with that particular case to fit a fan larger then 80mm.  On one side you have tempered glass and on the other side you have your motherboard, neither of which would I recommend cutting into just to fit a 120mm fan.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jan 7, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> I'm not sure a rotary tool will do much good with that particular case to fit a fan larger then 80mm.  On one side you have tempered glass and on the other side you have your motherboard, neither of which would I recommend cutting into just to fit a 120mm fan.


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