# The movie industry is dictating that DRM be built into Intel's new line of CPUs.



## Nick89 (Jan 4, 2011)

January 3, 2011



> Intel on Monday said that it was building a hardware security layer in its next-generation Core chips to prevent streaming movies from being copied.
> 
> The chip feature, called Insider, includes an end-to-end protection layer and management feature to unlock high-definition movies from online streaming services, said Karen Regis, consumer Consumer Client Marketing Manager at Intel.
> 
> ...



*Full story:* http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...pcoming_Core_chips_to_secure_streaming_movies

Looks like another reason for me to not buy Intel.


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## {JNT}Raptor (Jan 4, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> January 3, 2011
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So you admit to wanting to pirate online videos??...and are upset at Intel for trying to stop you?? LMAO


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## Nick89 (Jan 4, 2011)

{JNT}Raptor said:


> So you admit to wanting to pirate online videos??...and are upset at Intel for trying to stop you?? LMAO



No, I'm not upset. I do not agree with DRM being built into our processors, its an invasion of privacy on some level. A processor should be a processor, it should not monitor what we watch.


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## Mussels (Jan 4, 2011)

{JNT}Raptor said:


> So you admit to wanting to pirate online videos??...and are upset at Intel for trying to stop you?? LMAO



please, dont be stupid.


every time one of these DRM discussions comes along, someone always goes "OMG ALL WHO OPPOSE, CONDONE PIRACY/CHILD PORN/ETC"


its a ridiculous statement to make.


just let this conversation be about hte new DRM and how its going to screw our lives over in a few year with more ridiculous security measures.


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## Mr McC (Jan 4, 2011)

{JNT}Raptor said:


> So you admit to wanting to pirate online videos??...and are upset at Intel for trying to stop you?? LMAO



Why do you assume that the objective of DRM is to curb piracy? What evidence do you have that DRM effectively decreases and deters piracy? Is it not the case that DRM is simply a means of forcing paying customers to pay more whilst ensuring that media distribution is placed in the hands of an increasingly limited number of companies? Such companies want you and I to forsake all ownership rights and enter into a lease contract, are you willing to accept this without a fight simply because they suggest that piracy must be attacked?


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

Mr McC said:


> Such companies want you and I to forsake all ownership rights and enter into a lease contract, are you willing to accept this without a fight simply because they suggest that piracy must be attacked?



Yes, I am willing to accept that. I don't mind paying people for thier work, and no, I don't need to own everything eternally. DRM has no real impact on my life that is negative, and I spend more time on my PC than most.

I just dropped $2500 on yet another Gibson guitar. I hate to say it, but DRM ensures that that purchase was possible.

I guess it might not seem useful to those without any "need" for it, but as someone involved in the creation of media, DRM is ultimately essential to protect my own rights.

I don't have any real care for "privacy" either, so I guess my opinion may be skewed.


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## sneekypeet (Jan 4, 2011)

Whoa Deja Vu!


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## Mussels (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Yes, I am willing to accept that. I don't mind paying people for thier work, and no, I don't need to own everything eternally. DRM has not real impact on my life, and I spend more time on my PC than most.
> 
> I just dropped $2500 on yet another Gibson guitar. I hate to say it, but DRM ensures that that purchase was possible.
> 
> I guess it might not seem useful to those without any "need" for it, but as someone involved in the creation of media, DRM is ultimately essential to protect my own rights.



DRM has an effect on my life.


i want to connect my z5500 speakers to the SPDIF output of my TV and get 5.1 sound from my PC/games consoles, but i cant. DRM requirements of HDCP/HDMI dictate that HDMI sources into a TV only allow 2.0 stereo PCM audio out of SPDIF.


you may think 'im a legit user, it doesnt concern me!' but i assure you, it does. crippled features are abundant with this crap. how would you feel if you couldnt watch HD youtube content without a specific video card, CPU and OS combination? no reason you cant do it, except that you MAY record it/download it for your own nefarious purposes, copying and spreading that pirated copy of a sleeping dog sleepwalking its way into a wall.


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

It's no big deal for me to go buy the parts required. It's called researching your purchases. That purchase also translates to those dollars paying employees, etc...

I don't really care for DRM, however, I do not see it as a bad thing. Eventually it will be seemless..unnoticed...


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## Beertintedgoggles (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> It's no big deal for me to go buy the parts required. It's called researching your purchases. That purchase also translates to those dollars paying employees, etc...
> 
> I don't really care for DRM, however, I do not see it as a bad thing. Eventually it will be seemless..unnoticed...



I actually think its a big deal if I'm required to go buy more parts to do what my computer hardware should already be capable of doing, streaming high def. content to whatever destination I choose (whether it be a TV, monitor, or my hard drive).  Additionally, now there might be the situation where only an Intel processor can give you access to online content and if you're stuck with an AMD cpu, well too bad.  True if this catches on then maybe AMD will implement the same 'feature' on their processors but I'm getting pretty tired of the movie industry dictating hardware/security requirements to the PC industry.  Their intent isn't for any advancement or progress, simply how to make their bank accounts grow.


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## Marineborn (Jan 4, 2011)

i find what there doing kinda rediculous, they have no place to be putting that in a processor and even if they do i give it a couple months and someone finds some wacky work around, to get rid of that crap. and i say goodriddance, i dont pirate stuff either, i agree that a procoessor should be a processor, i have always been amd, but if this catches on, who knows what thell be doing next, nip it in the bud i say


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

Well, I see all these things as extras in life, that I do not require to survive. You may see it as inconvinience, I see it as a luxury, and as such, you must maintain that luxury. Like a classic car, it needs maintenence, and done right, numbered parts, etc...memberships to special clubs, etc...

Welcome to life with real money, dude. Money is NOT important. Spending it is what it's intyended for, not holding on to it. You hold on to the ideas and media to ensure that you have a constant strema to spend, but you don't hesitate when it comes time to pay the bills.


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## copenhagen69 (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> I don't really care for DRM, however, I do not see it as a bad thing. Eventually it will be seemless..unnoticed...




If by seamless and unnoticed you mean that everyone will have a big bearded guy standing behind you with a club so that everytime you think about doing something remotely close to illegal on a computer you get whacked in the head .... then yes, extremely seemless


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## Mussels (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Well, I see all these things as extras in life, that I do not require to survive. You may see it as inconvinience, I see it as a luxury, and as such, you must maintain that luxury. Like a classic car, it needs maintenence, and done right, numbered parts, etc...memberships to special clubs, etc...
> 
> Welcome to life with real money, dude. Money is NOT important. Spending it is what it's intyended for, not holding on to it. You hold on to the ideas and media to ensure that you have a constant strema to spend, but you don't hesitate when it comes time to pay the bills.



its the opposite to a classic car. its a new car with speed limits (so you cant accelerate faster than a set rate or pass a certain speed) where the seats cant be adjusted and you cant attach a tow ball to use a trailer.

giving a decent analogy here: the new car (despite its lack of features) is 30% more fuel efficient. the philosophy is that if you dont agree with it, you obviously hate the environment, murder puppies and agree with all evil things about pollution.


(if you still dont get it: SUPPORT OUR CRAP DRM OR YOU ARE A PIRATE. screw legit users, they're probably pirates anyway)


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

Sure, I get that, but you are not making music or video for sale, are you?


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## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

I think this is a great thing . Maybe this will stop all the pirates from hacking and stealing shit ! 
I do not like people that steal no reason for it ! I am poor and I do not steal .


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## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> I think this is a great thing . Maybe this will stop all the pirates from hacking and stealing shit !
> I do not like people that steal no reason for it ! I am poor and I do not steal .



i am proud of you, great ethics.

however it is naive to think this will solve ANYTHING.  it is equally naive to think piracy has a large enough effect on profits  to warrant the lengths they are going to.

the real reasons movies are losing profit is the majority are unoriginal drivel, and so many have moved to games as their primary source of entertainment.  I only watch movies/tv when i am tired of gaming.
*
there are reasonable lengths, and then unreasonable.  hardware-hardcoded DRM in my legally purchased legally owned components is unreasonable.*


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## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> i am proud of you, great ethics.
> 
> however it is naive to think this will solve ANYTHING.  it is equally naive to think piracy has a large enough effect on profits  to warrant the lengths they are going to.
> 
> ...



While I agree with you I still think that it helps . And if it helps keep them from stealing then I say go for it .


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## assaulter_99 (Jan 4, 2011)

Hmm interesting. I'm sure some dude in a basement will come out with a way to bypass this. It has always been the case anyways. Hardware or not, I'd bet a wager there is someone willing to do it for a challenge either with software or hardware! (remember the ps3?)


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## panchoman (Jan 4, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> No, I'm not upset. I do not agree with DRM being built into our processors, its an invasion of privacy on some level. A processor should be a processor, it should not monitor what we watch.



i agree. i will not be buying a sandybridge now. i don't want drm bullshit inside my processor. my processor is suppossed to be a damn high performance piece of sillicon made to crunch numbers, not to check whether the video i'm watching is pirated or not. 

this is on top of the new intel remote killswitch feature, which is also a gross invasion of my privacy. 

sandy bridge, you shall not near a motherboard while you're on my property.


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## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> While I agree with you I still think that it helps . And if it helps keep them from stealing then I say go for it .



yeah but how long?  when next they require you to enter a special code every time you want to watch a movie, or use a usb dongle?  you still may not care at that point, and i am sure it can get MUCH worse.

you have to compare the actual damage of piracy, to the cost of research and development of these technologies, as well as the effect it has an buying decision, for example - my next processor will now be amd.

they are talking about people pirating STREAMED movies, which guaranteed has an effect NEGLIGIBLE compared to warehouses of dvd copiers pumping out disks to sell on street corners. the kid trying to save an offline copy of a movie to MAYBE give a friend or family members is hardly worth adding unnecessary complications to my hardware!

*long story short, there is no way the threat warrants the reaction.  and even if it helps a little bit , it's just allowing them to make HUGE leaps in taking over my purchases, for little benefit.  a few more, and soon i don't even own my computer anymore.*



Icejon said:


> I hate DRM not because it prevents me from being a pirate, but it prevents me from fair use of the content I buy.
> 
> For example I buy a DVD of the Little Princess, DRM prevents me from decoding and converting that DVD to a video that works on my N900. DRM's purpose is to allow the movie companies to sell me one copy of any content per device.  It's pure greed.  I know that DRM is one way of a company trying to control media.  Since when should a manufacturer control all legal uses?
> 
> My car drives to the park equally as well as it drives to the zoo.  My gun can shoot at cans or save my life in a home invasion.  Imagine if your life depended on a product that had so many restrictions to be utterly useless unless within a narrowly defined usage.  That is why I hate DRM, it is a tool for control that assumes everyone are pirates.



VERY well said!


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## Icejon (Jan 4, 2011)

I hate DRM not because it prevents me from being a pirate, but it prevents me from fair use of the content I buy.

For example I buy a DVD of the Little Princess, DRM prevents me from decoding and converting that DVD to a video that works on my N900. DRM's purpose is to allow the movie companies to sell me one copy of any content per device.  It's pure greed.  I know that DRM is one way of a company trying to control media.  Since when should a manufacturer control all legal uses?

My car drives to the park equally as well as it drives to the zoo.  My gun can shoot at cans or save my life in a home invasion.  Imagine if your life depended on a product that had so many restrictions to be utterly useless unless within a narrowly defined usage.  That is why I hate DRM, it is a tool for control that assumes everyone are pirates.


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

LoLz. It's interesting to see the comments.

How do you protect your stuff? Your family? Yourself?

This is artists protecting themselves. They HAVE TO PUT A GUN TO YOUR HEAD. because nothing like honor exists for most people today. those not part of the industry wil lnever understand, and that's OK, but OMG...


Someone who is not an artist wil lnever understand the purpose or intent of DRM, as they have no "need" for it.

But suck it up, princess...if you want to watch my movies, or listen to my music, you'll do it how and when I say, as they are not just entertainment...they are part of me as a person, and character.

You steal parts of me, I'm coming to your house to take them back. You take my mind, I take your soul.


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## Widjaja (Jan 4, 2011)

^ ^ Just the question I was looking for.
I rip all my DVDs and convert them to either .mkv or .avi s I don't have to insert a disc everytime I want to watch a movie.

Not only that I wonder if doing something like this wo9uld also affect me downloading TV programs as there is a couple of TV series only screen in the US which I have to download to watch.


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## sneekypeet (Jan 4, 2011)

you assume you are going to keep buying DVDs (BR, CDs, whatever)...ponder that

My issue isnt so much on what this DRM may cause me in pain later, I'm more worried about the window it opened.


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## wolf (Jan 4, 2011)

I wish this DRM nonsense would stop, now it's being built into hardware?

where does it end?


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## entropy13 (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> LoLz. It's interesting to see the comments.
> 
> How do you protect your stuff? Your family? Yourself?
> 
> This is artists protecting themselves. They HAVE TO PUT A GUN TO YOUR HEAD. becuase nothing like honor exists for most people today. those not part of the industry wil lnever understand, and that's OK, but OMG...



Wrong. They already got mugged by the labels so they're not protecting anything. They already willingly "sold" those songs to the labels. The labels now owns those songs, it just so happens that they were the creators.

Don't forget that when one artist himself made a torrent of all his songs, his label filed legal action for that.

I remember as well when some Latin American singer's contract has already expired, Sony-BMG Music still keeps on distributing his albums to stores, and even justified it as "cleaning out the stock", wherein no mention was ever made for that in the now-finished contract. And because the contract was already done, they don't have to pay the singer anything for those newer copies of the album sold. IIRC the singer already won the case and got paid substantially.


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

If DRM leads to job creation, and maybe helps the economy, I'm all for it. It defiantely isn't going to make jobs dissappear.

Entropy...don't bring contracts into it...That's just stupid people not understanding what they sign. There are idiots everywhere.


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## Marineborn (Jan 4, 2011)

sneekypeet said:


> you assume you are going to keep buying DVDs (BR, CDs, whatever)...ponder that
> 
> My issue isnt so much on what this DRM may cause me in pain later, I'm more worried about the window it opened.



exactly the window it is opening what i said earlier, you think this is small, whats next putting monitoring chips in the processor, but nobody will think thats a big deal, im of course exegerating this to make a point, this is a bad bad sign.


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Jan 4, 2011)

This is where big spending companies start to remove the "P" from PC. 

I know you're playing devils advocate dave but DRM won't have any impact on the economy.


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## panchoman (Jan 4, 2011)

how soon before this thread gets locked?


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## Icejon (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Someone who is not an artist wil lnever understand the purpose or intent of DRM, as they have no "need" for it.
> 
> But suck it up, princess...if you want to watch my movies, or listen to my music, you'll do it how and when I say, as they are not just entertainment...they are part of me as a person, and character.
> 
> You steal parts of me, I'm coming to your house to take them back. You take my mind, I take your soul.



The problem is, unless you are good at marketing and self publish you are only getting 1-10 cents per song.  That $7 single you make $6 is eaten by a failed business model.  Have you seen the freeware game marketing idea? These game companies gave away their games for a donation of 0-XXX$ dollars.  Their content was good, and they made over a $500,000 dollars in donations.

How good is your content? If I don't buy it, you don't put a gun to my head.


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

Marineborn said:


> this is a bad bad sign.


BUT why?


What do you need to keep so private?


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## assaulter_99 (Jan 4, 2011)

wolf said:


> I wish this DRM nonsense would stop, now it's being built into hardware?
> 
> where does it end?



It shall never stop! Next : there'll be drm in women/men, which I guess will try to prevent males from hacking into other females than their gf's/wifey's and vice versa. At least this one works both ways!


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

assaulter_99 said:


> It shall never stop! Next : there'll be drm in women/men, which I guess will try to prevent males from hacking into other females than their gf's/wifey's and vice versa. At least this one works both ways!



Nah, you'll just need a captcha to kiss, a captcha to touch...you get where I'm going....?



Icejon said:


> How good is your content? If I don't buy it, you don't put a gun to my head.



True. but with so many users living on the seas of piracy, there's no other option but to hold a gun to EVERYONE's head.


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## Frick (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> LoLz. It's interesting to see the comments.
> 
> How do you protect your stuff? Your family? Yourself?
> 
> ...



You live in a reality where artists work like corporations. Protip: They usually don't. I download tons of music from artists THAT WANT ME TO DOWNLOAD THEM FOR FREE. If I like it, I buy the CD's some of them are selling. Not all of them do though.

I'm usually ok with DRM, but this is a bit too much.


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## assaulter_99 (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Nah, you'll just need a captcha to kiss, a captcha to touch...you get where I'm going....?



Jeez, so that means no quickies? I'll be damned!


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## entropy13 (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Entropy...don't bring contracts into it...That's just stupid people not understanding what they sign. There are idiots everywhere.



The contract was already THROUGH, so your point was inconsequential. The issue there is that Sony kept on selling his albums even without a contract. IIRC the singer got paid but only by the amount "earned" by the newer albums sold after litigation. Sony was quite willing to "pirate" his music too LOL


Don't forget that the RIAA claims TPB "stole" $382 trillion, i.e. 46 times all of the dollars in the world that exists.


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

Frick said:


> You live in a reality where artists work like corporations. Protip: They usually don't. I download tons of music from artists THAT WANT ME TO DOWNLOAD THEM FOR FREE. If I like it, I buy the CD's some of them are selling. Not all of them do though.




Thank you. Yes, this would be the right way to do it, however, what precluded the ability to do something like this was investment.

Investors want to guarantee thier investment, and DRM is one of those guarantees.


No real artist WANTS DRM, but it's a fact of life if you want INVESTMENT.


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## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

Maybe if they just killed all torrent sites and all porn sites and all music sites and all facebook sites there would be no need for DRM ?


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> Maybe if they just killed all torrent sites and all porn sites and all music sites and all facebook sites there would be no need for DRM ?



might as well kill the internet.


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## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> This is artists protecting themselves. They HAVE TO PUT A GUN TO YOUR HEAD. because nothing like honor exists for most people today. those not part of the industry wil lnever understand, and that's OK, but OMG...
> 
> 
> Someone who is not an artist wil lnever understand the purpose or intent of DRM, as they have no "need" for it.
> ...



that is absolutely ridiculous, especially with the number of ARTISTS who absolutely disagree with the practice.
not to mention, i would like to call you a number of names for ASSUMING that the majority of people are pirating.  that is A JOKE.

these methods will do NOTHING to stop the real act of pirating.  it will not stop people downloading ripped dvds or buying one on the street, and that is where the majority of it is done.
i don't give a flying $#%^ what you feel you need to do for yourself, you put a gun to my head for whatever reason, literally or metaphorically, you are - some more of those names i will not type , out of respect for TPU alone.

you need to get over yourself dave, your WANTS do not supersede my RIGHTS.


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## entropy13 (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Thank you. Yes, this would be the right way to do it, however, what precluded the ability to do something like this was investment.
> 
> Investors want to guarantee thier investment, and DRM is one of those guarantees.
> 
> ...



Those investors must be stupid then because it failed, is failing, will fail, will have failed, will be failing, would be failing, etc. LOL


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## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> might as well kill the internet.



Yeah this would make them happy . I just want them to stop crying and whining about this shit is all . Maybe this will make them stop once and for all . But no this will only happen when they have complete control over the internet and all the content there of .


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> you need to get over yourself dave, your WANTS do not supersede my RIGHTS.



Actually ,i tihnk you got it wrong. Your rights shall not impose conditions on others' rights.

You don't have any right to buy a PC without DRM. Please show me where that right is set in stone, and I'll agree with you. I do have a right to protect my intellectual property, however.


I'm also very financially secure..i bet that makes you jealous, too.



entropy13 said:


> Those investors must be stupid then because it failed, is failing, will fail, will have failed, will be failing, would be failing, etc. LOL



Sure. and that's where the real issue is, isn't it. I write a song, I want people to have it, spread it around, and if they like it, to toss me a bone.

But those I sell the music too...they want to protect that sale.

I don't want to sell my music...but I gotta, to feed my family. So I go see those investors, and I play by thier rules...not mine.


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## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> Yeah this would make them happy . I just want them to stop crying and whining about this shit is all . Maybe this will make them stop once and for all . But no this will only happen when they have complete control over the internet and all the content there of .


and not even then will it stop.  with complete control they can only LIE further about the effect piracy has.  

"those people with cameras in their glasses. being the only way they can record from their own television, are *ruining the industry!*"


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## DannibusX (Jan 4, 2011)

As long as it doesn't interfere with fair use, it doesn't really matter.


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## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Actually ,i tihnk you got it wrong. You rights shall not impose conditions on others' rights.
> 
> You don't have any right to buy a PC without DRM. Please show me where that right is set in stone, and I'll agree with you.
> 
> ...



jealous? so you assume i'm not(financially secure)?  you also assume i don't create for a living?

grow up dave, and get over yourself.  you do not have a right to have hardware installed on my computer, for any reason whatsoever.  I do have a right to the reasonable expectation of privacy, and of PRIVATE INDUSTRY, let alone GOVERNMENT, not taking my rights as a consumer away from me.


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## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

When will you people really see the light NO ONE HAS rights ! The facts are in front of your face . Corporations and big business run the world the constitution is just a piece of paper no longer guarantying rights or granting them !


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## AphexDreamer (Jan 4, 2011)

Making billions and billions of dollars is obviously not enough for these people, they want more.


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## DannibusX (Jan 4, 2011)

Too much arguing over nonsense makes your penis small.

Remember that.


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## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> When will you people really see the light NO ONE HAS rights ! The facts are in front of your face . Corporations and big business run the world the constitution is just a piece of paper no longer guarantying rights or granting them !



so you're saying, just accept that?


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## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

DannibusX said:


> Too much arguing over nonsense makes your penis small.
> 
> Remember that.



Speak for yourself !


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## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

AphexDreamer said:


> Making billions and billions of dollars is obviously not enough for these people, they want more.



no matter how "financially secure" in they end, it is basic greed.



DannibusX said:


> Too much arguing over nonsense makes your penis small.
> 
> Remember that.



right, Intel including hardware whose sole purpose is to LIMIT what i can do with my own property, is nonsense.


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## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> so you're saying, just accept that?



What els can you do ? You think that you can CHANGE any of it ? try .


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## entropy13 (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Sure. and that's where the real issue is, isn't it. I write a song, I want people to have it, spread it around, and if they like it, to toss me a bone.
> 
> But those I sell the music too...they want to protect that sale.
> 
> I don't want to sell my music...but I gotta, to feed my family. So I go see those investors, and I play by thier rules...not mine.



So you recognize them as a problem...but you want to keep on using them?


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## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

The only thing that matters is the rights of the company's not the people . We are just pones in there game and they will tell us how it is going to be no matter what you think your rights are !


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

TRIPTEX_CAN said:


> I know you're playing devils advocate dave but DRM won't have any impact on the economy.



I'm not playing games. Here's the guitar, in a picture I took last Friday:










entropy13 said:


> So you recognize them as a problem...but you want to keep on using them?



Sure, they feed me and my family. I do not see this as giving up my rights...I see it as a way of life.


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## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> What els can you do ? You think that you can CHANGE any of it ? try .



not within the system, any longer.  but with the internet.  joining forces with other like minded people instead of just saying "what can you do".

even if it never makes a dent, imo it's much better then sitting back and saying "hit me again ike"


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## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> I'm not playing games. Here's the guitar:



so your point is most of the people who bought your music, did so ONLY because of DRM?
why don't you send an email to all of them, and see how many buy your next album.

come on, unless you're just greedy - you're obviously financially secure enough to risk it!

i think, with a view like yours of the world, you are worse than a "pirate".  you belittle humanity.


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## Thatguy (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Yes, I am willing to accept that. I don't mind paying people for thier work, and no, I don't need to own everything eternally. DRM has no real impact on my life that is negative, and I spend more time on my PC than most.
> 
> I just dropped $2500 on yet another Gibson guitar. I hate to say it, but DRM ensures that that purchase was possible.
> 
> ...



  So you think musicians make money selling records ? Do you belive that lie ? Most sucessful musicians make money touring, always have always will. Most recording artists get 20 points if they are lucky. thats 20cents per record. figure out how many records a artist would have to sell to make a million dollars. 

   Secondly. This won't even put a dent in piracy. Its only going to piss people off more.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> not within the system, any longer.  but with the internet.  joining forces with other like minded people instead of just saying "what can you do".
> 
> even if it never makes a dent, imo it's much better then sitting back and saying "hit me again ike"



Yes. EXACTLY.

But how do you propose that artists then protect thier intellectual property? I'm all ears for good alternatives...

See, another part of the problem is that many forget that artists are supposed to be STARVING ARTISTS...not rich ones.


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Yes. EXACTLY.
> 
> But how do you prose that artist then protect thier intellectual property.
> 
> See, another part of hte problem is that many forget that artists are supposed to be STARVING ARTISTS...not rich ones.



they protect by forming a relationship with their fans, and making them WANT to OWN a piece of their ART.


instead of make a copy of that one cool song from a $20 cd.


----------



## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> not within the system, any longer.  but with the internet.  joining forces with other like minded people instead of just saying "what can you do".
> 
> even if it never makes a dent, imo it's much better then sitting back and saying "hit me again ike"



Fact is you are just asking Ike to keep hitting you . There is NOTHING you or I can do at all . They will implement what ever it takes to take control over you , your computer and your daily life , Think NOT ? Just take a good look around you for once . Tell me JUST how much " Freedom " do you really have in this country or any other ? And what do you think you can do to stop DRM or any other tech from taking your rights from you ? You can choose not to have a computer get on line and just live in the woods as far from every thing you can ( This is the only real solution you have ) .


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> Fact is you are just asking Ike to keep hitting you . There is NOTHING you or I can do at all . They will implement what ever it takes to take control over you , your computer and your daily life , Think NOT ? Just take a good look around you for once . Tell me JUST how much " Freedom " do you really have in this country or any other ? And what do you think you can do to stop DRM or any other tech from taking your rights from you ? You can choose not to have a computer get on line and just live in the woods as far from every thing you can ( This is the only real solution you have ) .



and no matter what they try, as long as we stick together there will be a way around it.  there is no fighting the force of singular resolve by a large number of people. 

with no weapons at all you can take down an army, with a large enough force.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> so your point is most of the people who bought your music, did so ONLY because of DRM?
> why don't you send an email to all of them, and see how many buy your next album.
> 
> come on, unless you're just greedy - you're obviously financially secure enough to risk it!
> ...



NO, my point is that the guitar wouldn't be in my house without DRM. It's nessecary evil, and it works for me.




digibucc said:


> they protect by forming a relationship with their fans, and making them WANT to OWN a piece of their ART.
> 
> 
> instead of make a copy of that one cool song from a $20 cd.



OK, but it's already been proven countless times that this doesn't always work. there needs to something more sucure than the honor system.


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> NO, my point is that the guitar wouldn't be in my house without DRM. It's nessecary evil, and it works for me.



and if it works for you, it doesn't matter the negative effects it has on others?

and you are just mincing words.  how are you not saying all of your fans are pirates, while saying you would not have a nice new guitar without drm.  i see them as going together unless you can explain how they don't.



cadaveca said:


> OK, but it's already been proven countless times that this doesn't always work. there needs to something more sucure than the honor system.



and there already is, but how far should you be allowed to go?

i say screwing with the hardware i legally purchased is TOO FAR.


----------



## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> and no matter what they try, as long as we stick together there will be a way around it.  there is no fighting the force of singular resolve by a large number of people.
> 
> with no weapons at all you can take down an army, with a large enough force.



LOL . Funny how many are blind and how few rights you have now compared to 50 years ago .
Fact is things are not going to get better for you or me . DRM is just the first step in taking over what you do with your property and what you buy with your hard earned cash . Take a good look around you and you will see I am right . This will only get worse once they have this what is stopping them from having all your computer information and every thing you do NOW is also seen by any one and every one . There is NO privacy at all . NONE !


----------



## DannibusX (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> i say screwing with the hardware i legally purchased is TOO FAR.



You haven't purchased it yet.  Don't do so.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> and if it works for you, it doesn't matter the negative effects it has on others?
> 
> and you are just mincing words.  how are you not saying all of your fans are pirates, while saying you would not have a nice new guitar without drm.  i see them as going together unless you can explain how they don't.
> 
> ...



When you find my music, let me know. My relationship with the industry makes DRM nessecary. I don't have "FANS". I have customers. They protect the work I do, to protect the investment they made. I don't see any negative impact here...what so negative about it?


I don't see this as "screwing with the hardware". Again, if you don't like it, don't buy! very simple...but the fact of the matter is that people WILL BUY, and not give it a second thought.


----------



## Widjaja (Jan 4, 2011)

Here's another thought when it comes to music piracy
This does not good for the musician in general but I do believe it says something important to the musician.

If you see your music in torrents being seeded and leeched big time, you know you have made it big as a musician.

BTW cadaveca:-
Interesting Les Paul you have there....modded with push pull pots or something?
Never seen one like it before.


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> LOL . Funny how many are blind and how few rights you have now compared to 50 years ago .
> Fact is things are not going to get better for you or me . DRM is just the first step in taking over what you do with your property and what you buy with your hard earned cash . Take a good look around you and you will see I am right . This will only get worse once they have this what is stopping them from having all your computer information and every thing you do NOW is also seen by any one and every one . There is NO privacy at all . NONE !



while i agree with your premise, your conclusion is false.
simply because as i said, there is always a way around it.

proxy servers, firewalls, offline machines, different operating systems.
hackers, crackers, wetworkers, thieves.  in a perfect world none of them would exist, but when as you said, we truly have no rights - SOME of their work can become necessary.



Widjaja said:


> Here's another thought when it comes to music piracy
> This does not good for the musician in general but I do believe it says something important to the musician.
> 
> If you see your music in torrents being seeded and leeched big time, you know you have made it big as a musician.



i posed a similar question to my good friend lemode.

basically, would you rather you had less people who appreciated your work?  if that one pirate, or one hundred pirates, decided and got others to purchase, you then made money from piracy.

would you rather never have made that money, or would you rather those first fans pirated your work, albeit temporarily.


----------



## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

Thing is this is just a stepping tool for even bigger things we will soon see a huge increase in privacy inception . Trust me I could care less as this will not have any impact on me I listen to music on the radio and watch T.V. and movies on my payed for direct TV system . But this is just one more way to take from you and me and this will lead to bigger things trust me .


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> Thing is this is just a stepping tool for even bigger things we will soon see a huge increase in privacy inception . Trust me I could care less as this will not have any impact on me I listen to music on the radio and watch T.V. and movies on my payed for direct TV system . But this is just one more way to take from you and me and this will lead to bigger things trust me .



without a doubt, it's all tiny steps that add up to total control. and the whole time most people say, it doesn't affect me, or what can i do.

*but again, for every big whig trying to control us, there is a hacker in his basement just as smart or smarter, tearing down those walls for those who care to pay attention.

the point being, just pay attention.*


----------



## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> without a doubt, it's all tiny steps that add up to total control. and the whole time most people say, it doesn't affect me, or what can i do.



Soon they will infiltrate your bodily fluids !


----------



## DannibusX (Jan 4, 2011)

> Intel on Monday said that it was building a hardware security layer in its next-generation Core chips to prevent streaming movies from being copied.


This technology is going to be used to ensure that you can’t copy a movie streaming over the internet, not for a DVD or Blu-Ray you legally purchased or even a file you may have torrented.  Just streaming.  Netflix, Blockbuster and various On-Demand services will use this and as a result more content will become available.  Yes, it’s DRM and yes, it will be embedded in future generations of Intel Core processors.


> Intel is adding specialized hardware accelerators to quickly encode and decode video. The feature, called Quick Sync, allows users to transfer high-definition video into a format suitable for smartphones in a matter of seconds. The hardware accelerators are faster than software, which could take minutes to transfer video.
> Intel is also upgrading its Wi-Di technology, which enables users to wirelessly transmit images and video from a PC to a high-definition TV. Users will now be able to stream 1080p content, an improvement from the previous 720p resolution. Users will also be able to stream protected movies from the Intel Insider feature, Regis said.


This isn’t even going to stop you from doing what you want to do with your content, which is stream it from your computer to your TV.
DRM is bad for business, but you don’t have to buy the hardware.  Vote with your wallet.


----------



## Thatguy (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Yes. EXACTLY.
> 
> But how do you propose that artists then protect thier intellectual property? I'm all ears for good alternatives...
> 
> See, another part of the problem is that many forget that artists are supposed to be STARVING ARTISTS...not rich ones.



   You can't protect media, period, ever. Let it go. what you do is perform. Thats how you stop being a starving artist.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

Thatguy said:


> You can't protect media, period, ever. Let it go. what you do is perform. Thats how you stop being a starving artist.



Ok, but this technology is all about protecting the media. A recording artist, yes, performs, but what about the movie industry? Perhaps that side of the industry is where I work, where performance ina  live setting is near impossible?


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## AphexDreamer (Jan 4, 2011)

Its funny cause the record executives going on and on about these downloads hurting the industry are the ones really ripping off artists.

Most piracy statistics are skewed/biased anyways.

http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2007/02/8813.ars

http://www.azoz.com/newsarchive/2009/03/piracystats.html

and I'd say any piracy done is actually a good sign for an artiest.


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> When you find my music, let me know. My relationship with the industry makes DRM nessecary. I don't have "FANS". I have customers. They protect the work I do, to protect the investment they made. I don't see any negative impact here...what so negative about it?
> 
> 
> I don't see this as "screwing with the hardware". Again, if you don't like it, don't buy! very simple...but the fact of the matter is that people WILL BUY, and not give it a second thought.



i won't buy, but the industry won't stop until i have no choice.  as in, either buy that or nothing.  so then my option is to not own a computer, or stick with this one for the rest of my life?  that's fair, simply to save a small percentage of profits?

instead, why don't you get the money from your industry, that systematically rips off it's artists.and i now do not not consider you an artist.  if you have customers, you are a businessman. you can call yourself what you like but your motivation is clear - money, not art.

what's negative is you coming into my home and dictating what i can do with my hardware, when i never would have bought one of your cds anyway!  you should have NO impact on my life, provided i am not PIRATING!
but drm affects honest buyers MORE than it affects pirates!  it is MUCH, MUCH easier to get a hassle free copy of ANYTHING illegally, than to get ANYTHING with drm hassle free.

think more about your "customers" and less about your own greed.


----------



## Thatguy (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Ok, but this technology is all about protecting the media. A recording artist, yes, performs, but what about the movie industry? Perhaps that side of the industry is where I work, where performance ina  live setting is near impossible?



  I'd feel to aweful if big studio productions stopped comming out. In fact I'd shed a tear if local artists could make a reasonable living performing well written material instead. Broadway shows us this can and does work. 

  Also most movie studios make way more on merchandise then they do on media sales. My suggestion is, quit bitchen and figure it out. The age of recording arts is over and it didn't last very long.


----------



## Widjaja (Jan 4, 2011)

Just took a quick look on the torrents engine.

It seems unless you are a hip hop artist, Katy Perry or Taylor Swift in your style of music, you don't have much to worry about.


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

Thatguy said:


> I'd feel to aweful if big studio productions stopped comming out. In fact I'd shed a tear if local artists could make a reasonable living performing well written material instead. Broadway shows us this can and does work.
> 
> Also most movie studios make way more on merchandise then they do on media sales. My suggestion is, quit bitchen and figure it out. The age of recording arts is over and it didn't last very long.



I'm not complaining..clearly making cash is no issue of my own. The issue arises from those feeling that they are losing thier rights via DRM...but I must question..what right?


Thatguy said:


> Also most movie studios make way more on merchandise then they do on media sales. My suggestion is, quit bitchen and figure it out. The age of recording arts is over and it didn't last very long.



I am not a recording artist...and yes, I am a businessman.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jan 4, 2011)

folks, there are trolls out there willing to say things just to piss you off. i would suggest not feeding them.

that being said, if you dont like DRM then don't buy music from companies that support it both intel and the music industry.


----------



## AphexDreamer (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> I'm not complaining..clearly making cash is no issue of my own. The issue arises from those feeling that they are losing thier rights via DRM...but I must question..what right?



Privacy


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> I'm not complaining..clearly making cash is no issue of my own. The issue arises from those feeling that they are losing thier rights via DRM...but I must question..what right?



well if you mean legal rights, that's different the world over.  and many "moral" rights differ as well.

but when i say it, i mean my right:
to play my legally purchased media on whatever device i own.  
to not be treated like a criminal every time i want to use aforementioned legally purchased media.
to not have corporate interests inject themselves into law, for the sole purpose of making even MORE money from me.

as was said, this individual change will have little to no effect on me.  i won't buy it and i don't stream movies anyway(on my pc).  but each little step adds up, and eventually i will only have the rights that corporations decide i deserve, and i don't quite think THEY DESERVE that kind of power


----------



## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> The issue arises from those feeling that they are losing thier rights via DRM...but I must question..what right?



That is the big question . WHAT RIGHTS do we really have any more ? I say take a good look at your world today and you will see cameras every were on almost every building , street corner , Cop vans , inside phones and every were you go ! No privacy any more no clear choice whether or not you want your face on a tape or camera . NOPE we live for knowing what you do every minute of every day . This is just another way to do this . One step closer to reaching into your home and seeing what you do every second of every day ! Suck it up people you have to .


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> folks, there are trolls out there willing to say things just to piss you off. i would suggest not feeding them.
> 
> that being said, if you dont like DRM then don't buy music from companies that support it both intel and the music industry.



which is what i will do, truthfully though, i don't appreciate the ultimatum. 

to be told "if you don't like it, @#$%! off" , when all i want is to use my legally purchased media in the manner that fits my needs.  when all i want is to buy a game that won't install hooks into the deepest levels of my system, i don't see what i am doing wrong in that instance.  i don't see why they have the right to invade my life and home in such a way, and my only option is to not enjoy something i want and am willing to pay good money for.

what more do they want from me?

granted there is no legal recourse, but i don't even see how people can ethically think that is ok.  so pirates are a scourge that must be stopped, and if it means turning advanced pcs into machines that are so limited in use as to be unrecognizable - i think is wrong.  that's not what i bought into.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> which is what i will do, truthfully though, i don't appreciate the ultimatum.
> 
> to be told "if you don't like it, @#$%! off" , when all i want is to use my legally purchased media in the manner that fits my needs.  when all i want is to buy a game that won't install hooks into the deepest levels of my system, i don't see what i am doing wrong in that instance.  i don't see why they have the right to invade my life and home in such a way, and my only option is to not enjoy something i want and am willing to pay good money for.
> 
> what more do they want from me?



don't take it as me telling people who don't like it to screw off. instead, people should take it as me advising them to support other businesses that don't do DRM. personally i think AMD is crap but if they don't do what intel is doing in this regard then my next rig will be AMD. see what i'm saying?


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> to not have corporate interests inject themselves into law, for the sole purpose of making even MORE money from me.



that is not a right, unfortuantely. Although I agree with the logistical side of it, part of doing business is shaping the landscape you harvest from to meet your needs. If it was a right, it wouldn't be possible, but it is.

I think this...It's teh CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS....rights, and freedom, are not one and the same, there are seperate things.


----------



## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> which is what i will do, truthfully though, i don't appreciate the ultimatum.
> 
> to be told "if you don't like it, @#$%! off" , when all i want is to use my legally purchased media in the manner that fits my needs.  when all i want is to buy a game that won't install hooks into the deepest levels of my system, i don't see what i am doing wrong in that instance.  i don't see why they have the right to invade my life and home in such a way, and my only option is to not enjoy something i want and am willing to pay good money for.
> 
> what more do they want from me?



They want you to be there slave ! Just look at the world around you and you will see this to be true .


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

Easy Rhino said:


> don't take it as me telling people who don't like it to screw off. instead, people should take it as me advising them to support other businesses that don't do DRM. personally i think AMD is crap but if they don't do what intel is doing in this regard then my next rig will be AMD. see what i'm saying?



oh for sure, i didn't for a second think that's what youa re saying, but rather - that's what the companies are saying.

and fighting with your purchase only goes so far.  there will NEVER be a large enough group of people doing so to make an impact. ever.


----------



## Bo$$ (Jan 4, 2011)

so if i buy an AMD CPU im fucked so to speak?


----------



## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> that is not a right, unfortuantely.
> rights, and freedom, are not one and the same, there are separate things.


And we no longer share or have .


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> that is not a right, unfortuantely. Although I agree with the logistical side of it, part of doing business is shaping the landscape you harvest from to meet your needs. If it was a right, it wouldn't be possible, but it is.
> 
> I think this...It's teh CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS....rights, and freedom, are not one and the same, there are seperate things.



but you (and i suppose my comment) are looking at it in black and white.

i can understand a company fighting for a fair environment.  lobbying for mutual positive good, but that is not what happens.  it is based on greed, and from the same corporate machines who already hold 99% of the wealth in the world.

like the wolf who cried sheep 

and NOT that your economic status determines your worth or rights, but quite the opposite.  money should not buy you into another system unreachable to "normal folk" and that is exactly what corporate money does.  it gives them a whole new set of laws, and allows them to disobey ours.

also, flat out - a corporation is not a person, and should NEVER have the same rights as one.


----------



## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

Bo$$ said:


> so if i buy an AMD CPU im fucked so to speak?



How ? They still think that DRM is not an issue for them to place on there hardware and this may even make it faster than Intel .


----------



## garyinhere (Jan 4, 2011)

So everyone is mad because you think you should have the Right to access privately owned media the way you see fit instead of how the owner wants to channel it to you?


----------



## Easy Rhino (Jan 4, 2011)

i think i'm gonna unsubscribe from this thread before i get a headache and then get myself into trouble


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## Bo$$ (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> but you (and i suppose my comment) are looking at it in black and white.
> 
> i can understand a company fighting for a fair environment.  lobbying for mutual positive good, but that is not what happens.  it is based on greed, and from the same corporate machines who already hold 99% of the wealth in the world.
> 
> ...





trickson said:


> How ? They still think that DRM is not an issue for them to place on there hardware and this may even make it faster than Intel .



Legally i wont be able to watch HD films, meaning ALL future AMD owners will become/be considered pirates to put it crudely


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

Bo$$ said:


> Legally i wont be able to watch HD films, meaning ALL future AMD owners will become pirates to put it crudely



that escaped me, good point.

though as of now that is not the case, i am sure that would be their plan if amd doesn't follow suit as well.


----------



## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

One way to stop all this madness is stop buying all media and stop DL all media . Do not go to movies , Do not buy lady gaga CD's . Stop buying there crap and you will see a huge out cry from them . Make them really starve by keeping your cash at home .


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> One way to stop all this madness is stop buying all media and stop DL all media . Do not go to movies , Do not buy lady gaga CD's . Stop buying there crap and you will see a huge out cry from them . Make them really starve by keeping your cash at home .



right-

if you don't like it, @#%^& off.

and again, there will never be enough people doing so to make an impact. NEVER. we are a consumer society, and that is not going to change by our own hand.



garyinhere said:


> So everyone is mad because you think you should have the Right to access privately owned media the way you see fit instead of how the owner wants to channel it to you?


when they are more concerned about making even MORE money, when they already have most of it (than giving customers an enjoyable experience)  - yeah, that makes me very mad.


----------



## Bo$$ (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> that escaped me, good point.
> 
> though as of now that is not the case, i am sure that would be their plan if amd doesn't follow suit as well.



if they do then what is the point of the DRM at all, there are no pirate CPUs. then what about mobile devices, like new phones with HDMI outputs, see what i mean for intel to take this on is a serious risk.


----------



## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> right-
> 
> if you don't like it, @#%^& off.
> 
> and again, there will never be enough people doing so to make an impact. NEVER. we are a consumer society, and that is not going to change by our own hand.



Yep this is why we are constantly under surveillance and watched every were we go . No one has spoken out against it no one cares any more . There job there life is too fast paced and we are all too ready to lay down our rights and get felt up at air ports to really care any more !


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> Yep this is why we are constantly under surveillance and watched every were we go . No one has spoken out against it no one cares any more . There job there life is too fast paced and we are all too ready to lay down our rights and get felt up at air ports to really care any more !



i didn't say ACCEPT it, i said you can't change it.  you can however, do what you want and just not get caught.

as long as you are being ethically "good" i see no problem with it.  just because something is a law or a rule doesn't mean it's right.
there are many laws that are simply not enforced, because no one wants them too.  
laws don't determine whether people live "good or bad" right or wrong, but rather give an accepted recourse against those who don't

if there were no laws, you couldn't punish people without others getting in a tizzy.  
however that doesn't mean that laws actually DETERMINE right or wrong. we do that.

come on mailman, i know you are authoritarian and guess you'd have to be ripping your hair out at that


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 4, 2011)

I support DRM. Some of you guys may remember I fought a one man battle with about 10 members about DRM in an old thread. I am 100% for anything that may stop pirating. However DRM in my CPU? WTF? No way man.


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## streetfighter 2 (Jan 4, 2011)

I blame the Jews in Hollywood.  You know-- Spike Lee, Francis Ford Coppola, Quentin Tarantino, etc. 

Did I mention I don't know what the hell I'm talking about?


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> come on mailman, i know you are authoritarian and guess you'd have to be ripping your hair out at that



WTF are you talking about!? I hate authoritarian governments. Anyway lets not derail this.


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## Bo$$ (Jan 4, 2011)

soon a DRM in Windows


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 4, 2011)

Bo$$ said:


> soon a DRM in Windows



Where have you been for the last 10 years?


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## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> WTF are you talking about!? I hate authoritarian governments.



im saying in the way you see the world, not in your preferred governmental system.
you came across to me, that you believed (stronger than i at least) that rules and laws are very important, moreso than individual ethics.

i am very sorry if i got that wrong, and it was obviously wrong for me to assume and say so.  
that is though, the perception i have gotten in the past, from discussions like these.


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## Bo$$ (Jan 4, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Where have you been for the last 10 years?



What DRM does windows have? i havent ever personally bought a copy of windows, the last copy my dad bought was XP no DRM there 

I wonder how Windows 7 is running right now


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

Bo$$ said:


> What DRM does windows have? i havent ever personally bought a copy of windows, the last copy my dad bought was XP no DRM there
> 
> I wonder how Windows 7 is running right now



xp had activation & keys, that's drm.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> im saying in the way you see the world, not in your preferred governmental system.
> you came across to me, that you believed (stronger than i at least) that rules and laws are very important, moreso than individual ethics.
> 
> i am very sorry if i got that wrong, and it was obviously wrong for me to assume and say so.  that is though the perception i have gotten in the past, from arguments like these.



No problem. I am about laws the fit within our Constitution "American". Nothing more. Nothing less. If you are from another nation then thats your business not mine. However people now make "laws" that fit their "ethics". They do not care if it tramples others liberty's. Oh and I use "ethics" and "laws" loosely. Replace "laws" with bureaucrats and "ethics" with business deals and you get my drift. There is a big difference in doing what you "feel" and doing the right thing.


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> No problem. I am about laws that fit within our Constitution "American". Nothing more. Nothing less. If you are from another nation then thats your business not mine. However people now make "laws" that fit their "ethics". They do not care if it tramples others liberty's. Oh and I use "ethics" and "laws" loosely. Replace "laws" with bureaucrats and "ethics" with business deals and you get my drift. There is a big difference in doing what you "feel" and doing the right thing.


this just proves another thought of mine (that i fail to recognize often enough  )
huge differences on the surface can often be explained, and people are a lot more alike than they seem or may think at first.

i perfectly get your drift, and totally agree.  I would not have thought that would be the case.


and im sorry for the derail (to everyone)  i think (hope) most has been said though.


----------



## hat (Jan 4, 2011)

I don't want DRM in my processor (or anywhere else). I don't want someone holding my hand to make sure I don't steal. I don't want to be restricted to what I can and can't rightfully do based on the hardware I own, either. Those who will steal will do so. Someone will find a way around whatever "protection" is in place. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users.


----------



## Mr McC (Jan 4, 2011)

DRM is big news in Spain at the minute: the law whereby web sites could be closed for hosting content deemed to infrige the rights of third parties via administrative rulings, without the need for a judicial decision, was rejected in the upper house of parliament. They are currently redrafting to present a revised version. Artists such as Javier Bardem and Alex de la Iglesia have spoken out in favour of the law and in support of the minister in question, whilst criticising weak ministers and a culture that views piracy as acceptable. Other artists and musicians have pointed out that most of their revenue is obtained via live performances and the publicity acquired through Internet hits, even where this involves illegal downloads, actually aids this endeavour. Associations in favour of consumers' rights point out that such laws protect corporate interests at the expense of personal freedoms. The argument is more or less mirrored in this thread and will be encountered with increasing frequency as "our" politicians and large corporations appear to be on the offensive.

I side with digibucc and against Cadaveca: politicians were voted in to protect my rights rather than corporate rights, amongst a host of other reasons that have already been better expressed by digibucc.

It seems to me that the companies advocating DRM are intent on attempting to retain an absolete business model: somebody is making money from all these downloads, if it's not the artist (and it never is), we have laws in place to deal with that already and if its not these companies, I'm not willing to recompense them beyond a certain point for failing to adapt, either in the form of more money, less freedoms or greater inconvenience.

The States recently passed a similar law, if I am not mistaken, along with a law guaranteeing Internet freedom: how can we guarantee Internet freedom whilst pushing DRM specifically designed to ensure that certain companies retain or develop monopolies? Again, money is being made, is it simply a case of their dissatisfaction with a slice that many would view as more than ample?

Realistically, these processors will be built, will include the DRM and will sell, but, in any event, I choose to stand with the loosing party.


----------



## hat (Jan 4, 2011)

We passed no law. That's the FCC pushing their Net Neutrality nonsense, without going through the rest of the government (Senate, House, then on to the President). People creating laws out of thin air seems to be popular around here.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 4, 2011)

hat said:


> I don't want DRM in my processor (or anywhere else). I don't want someone holding my hand to make sure I don't steal. I don't want to be restricted to what I can and can't rightfully do based on the hardware I own, either. Those who will steal will do so. Someone will find a way around whatever "protection" is in place. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users. DRM only screws over legitimate users.



Ill just toss this in. "If you are doing nothing wrong, what do you fear" is a classic response to this. My response is "If you trust the people and are not trying to control them what do you fear?"


----------



## Mr McC (Jan 4, 2011)

hat said:


> We passed no law. That's the FCC pushing their Net Neutrality nonsense, without going through the rest of the government (Senate, House, then on to the President). People creating laws out of thin air seems to be popular around here.



Yes, that's what I was referring to, cheers.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I support DRM. Some of you guys may remember I fought a one man battle with about 10 members about DRM in an old thread. I am 100% for anything that may stop pirating. However DRM in my CPU? WTF? No way man.



But the move to hardware-based solutions may mean that there is a complete stop to the obtrusive software that so many complain about.


I mean, the days of StarForce and thier annoying DRM that killed your drive are come and gone...

If in the end, the DRM has no effect, and is seamless in such a way that it has no impact on your experience, then what's the issue?

All the actual complaints i hear in here have nothing to do with DRM, nor any of the limitations contained within DRM itself...it's more an outcry about "Big Brother" poking thier nose in your "business".


There's no loss of freedoms...no loss of rights...not ones that are real rights or freedoms, anyway. There are things that limit your choices when it comes to consumable content, but as none of these actaully impact your health(other than maybe mental health), I find any complaints about DRM as kinda close-minded about the entire situation as a whole. Limitation of choices pertaining to goods produced solely for comspumption and purchase, and that are completly optional purchases, makes sense. 


The problem of piracy exists. DRM seeks to be the solution. While it may not take the avenues most want, I cannot see any legitimate restrictions placed by DRM that aren't warranted...nor are they against any law.


----------



## streetfighter 2 (Jan 4, 2011)

Mr McC said:


> I side with digibucc and against Cadaveca: politicians were voted in to protect my rights rather than corporate rights, amongst a host of other reasons that have already been better expressed by digibucc.


The opposing (which isn't to say my) perspective might say: in order to preserve the prospering society with which you live in, the interests of the rich (read corporations) must be protected so that they'll give jobs to poor useless worms like us.  Also given that a huge, huge, absolutely unfathomably large chunk of the cheddar in the USA is nothing more than intellectual property...



hat said:


> We passed no law. That's the FCC pushing their Net Neutrality nonsense, without going through the rest of the government (Senate, House, then on to the President). People creating laws out of thin air seems to be popular around here.


They're just extending jurisdiction; that with which many argued they had domain way back when Al Gore was inventing tubes.  The Judiciary can still tell them to STFU NOOBS N4W GBTW!


----------



## crazyeyesreaper (Jan 4, 2011)

meh i could care less im tired of spending hard earned money on media that sucks because to test it before hand would make me a pirate.

Im tired of buying something and being told how exactly i can use what i already paid for

might as well tell me if i buy gas at the gas station i can only put it in my car to have any other use would be illegal

that if i feed my dog bread i should go to jail because the bread is expressly made so i can make a sandwich or toast only.

People need to get a grip theres something to be said about protecting intellectual property but we have hit the wall where if they start putting it into hardware ill stop buying hardware. If i cant try a product before i buy it i refuse to buy it. I dont buy movies or even go to the movies anymore i dont buy CD's we have a thing called radio so i dont really give a shit. Games are fun but you know what if. This gets any further out of control ill just stop buying all forms of media.

I dont need the internet i dont need movies music or games. To be honest ill keep the $700-1000 i spend every year on games and media expenses and ill take up some other hobby. Ill start fishing or hunting. or get back into building Model trains again. We are at a crossroad now where we dont actually own anything anymore.

Buy a house you supposedly own it but you pay taxes to the extent its actually cheaper to just rent then it is to own where i am and let the owner fix the problems. I already dont own the CD i bought i dont own the movies on DvD i dont own anything. Adding DRM to my pc hardware you might as well say i dont own my GPU my CPU or RAM that i dont own the Monitor in front of me or my keyboard. By extention i own nothing so tell me if i already own nothing why am i busting my ass every day at work? why bother seems to be if i dont own anything i buy im better off being a slob and collecting a check from the government with which to buy that which i dont own.

Theres something to be said of law order and rights but im sorry i really dont think i want to live in a society that i basically rent and can use something only as long as im allowed to and then its magically gone.

Buy a console spent $60 on a game at launch u can play online wait till the price drops to $20 the servers for online play are already shut down so cant game with friends. Society is fast paced for sure but fuck it id rather you put me 6 feet under so i can turn over in my grave already cause this shit just keeps getting even more ridiculous. 

and as far as artists go i know alot of them in the game industry and not a damn one likes drm or supports it, they only accept it because no drm means no funding. Then again every games a sequal and just regurgitated shit from last year and the year before so these artists that need to eat well if they made something that wasnt recycled crap ive seen over and over every year for 5+ years maybe people might be willing to pay for it, but no everyones expected to eat the shit sandwich and smile because if you dont spent $60 for the game $50 for all the DLC and say yes master thank you master every time someone bones you in the ass your obviously a pirate. I think its time i just said fuck the media and go back outside. Id rather waste my money hitting on women at the bar then to buy something i cant actually enjoy do to all the random fucking restricitions.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> But the move to hardware-based solutions may mean that there is a complete stop to the obtrusive software that so many complain about.
> 
> 
> I mean, the days of StarForce and thier annoying DRM that killed your drive are come and gone...
> ...



So you trust the company to keep something like this strictly to DRM? I'm sorry but I don't trust anyone like Intel like that. At least with software you can control it. With a CPU its game over. I understand what you are saying. I just trust human natures predictability better.

This is what will happen.
1.DRM in CPU
2.DRM in CPU circumvented
3.DRM in CPU+Software
4.DRM in CPU+Software circumvented
5.DRM in CPU+Software+Government monitoring via both hardware and software.

Screw this. I'm putting on my tin foil hat now and going back to my speak and spell!


----------



## Mr McC (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> But the move to hardware-based solutions may mean that there is a complete stop to the obtrusive software that so many complain about.
> 
> 
> I mean, the days of StarForce and thier annoying DRM that killed your drive are come and gone...
> ...



I'll concede that point, but stating that a lobotomised patient is unaware that he has been lobotomised appears to be a similar argument.



streetfighter 2 said:


> The opposing (which isn't to say my) perspective might say: in order to preserve the prospering society with which you live in, the interests of the rich (read corporations) must be protected so that they'll give jobs to poor useless worms like us.  Also given that a huge, huge, absolutely unfathomably large chunk of the cheddar in the USA is nothing more than intellectual property...



Trickle-down economics is a fallacy: people are too greedy.




streetfighter 2 said:


> They're just extending jurisdiction; that with which many argued they had domain way back when Al Gore was inventing tubes.  The Judiciary can still tell them to STFU NOOBS N4W GBTW!



I have not lost all faith in Americans.


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> So you trust the company to keep something like this strictly to DRM? I'm sorry but I don't trust anyone like Intel like that. At least with software you can control it. With a CPU its game over. I understand what you are saying. I just trust human natures predictability better.
> 
> This is what will happen.
> 1.DRM in CPU
> ...



Ok, I can agree with that. 


IF DRM leads to such, maybe...


However, if it does, it's those that are fighting it that will cause it to go that way. Plain and simple. It's those that complain and act to circumvent the "problem" that forces the hand that DRM holds. No two ways about THAT.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Ok, I can agree with that.
> 
> 
> IF DRM leads  to such, maybe, however, if it does, it's those that are fighting it that will cause it to go that way.



Its not "IF" its WHEN. Assholes are predictable man. Its a catch 22 if you will. However they are just using DRM in THIS fashion for more control IMHO.


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

OK, but I live in a different country, with different rules, and different people in control. The context that might suit your situation most definately does not suit every situation.

Remember, us Canadians are the "MAIN SOURCE OF PIRACY". 

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/national/story.html?id=b3dea202-82da-4ad9-b6f8-277923bc1f6b


http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=3047997


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> OK, but I live in a different country, with different rules, and different people in control. The context that might suit your situation most definately does not suit every situation.



Keep telling yourself that man. Everyone is different yet everyone is the same.



cadaveca said:


> OK, but I live in a different country, with different rules, and different people in control. The context that might suit your situation most definately does not suit every situation.
> 
> Remember, us Canadians are the "MAIN SOURCE OF PIRACY".
> 
> ...



I forgive you. Yall have great weed!


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

> U.S. legislators condemned Canada, China, Mexico, Russia and Spain on Wednesday for failing to crack down on piracy of movies, music, videogames and other copyrighted works.
> 
> Read more: http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=3047997#ixzz1A5yqBxCB



Interesting group, isn't it? I know the exact same list by a different title.


----------



## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> OK, but I live in a different country, with different rules, and different people in control. The context that might suit your situation most definately does not suit every situation.



HAHA ! Haven't you heard of the new world order ? It is coming to a country near you as well . There is no more we the people or a United states for the people by the people . Not any more one world one government one world order ! This is but one tinny step towards all this .


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## erocker (Jan 4, 2011)

Who in the hell wastes their time copying streaming movies? If there's a movie out there I want to watch and am too cheap to pay for there are various sources. This doesn't affect my purchasing decisions whatsoever.


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## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> HAHA ! Haven't you heard of the new world order ? It is coming to a country near you as well . There is no more we the people or a United states for the people by the people . Not any more one world one government one world order ! This is but one tinny step towards all this .


*I AM* the NWO.


 


Amateurs. :shadedshu


----------



## crazyeyesreaper (Jan 4, 2011)

all ican say is if theres DRM in my cpu wheres the shit that keeps drunk drivers from driving or automatically drives my car without me actually driving it or etc i think the world has bigger issues then OMG stop ppl from copying are shit NOAW!!!!.  seriously this is retarded


----------



## trickson (Jan 4, 2011)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> all ican say is if theres DRM in my cpu wheres the shit that keeps drunk drivers from driving or automatically drives my car without me actually driving it or etc i think the world has bigger issues then OMG stop ppl from copying are shit NOAW!!!!.  seriously this is retarded



Yeah well it is easier to put DRM on hardware than to keep drunks from driving and killing people .


----------



## BrooksyX (Jan 4, 2011)

Wow another reason I am so glad I switched back to amd.


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## robal (Jan 4, 2011)

DRM is wrong.

When I was younger (and had little money), I had no trouble getting stuff to run after proper "patching". There are still ways, and *always will be*, to circumvent DRM.
It won't prevent piracy. Just makes it more fun.

Now, I've got money, so I pay for everything I use. I'd never steal stuff now, knowing that I'm able to reward it's creators.
Still, even now, I have to use cracks from time to time, because of some stupid DRM that prevent's me from using stuff I've paid for.

Think now. How many times a faulty Securom detection... or online activation, or other crap prevented you from running your game ?
How many times you had HDCP issue ? DVD region issue ?  iPlayer (UK) deleting your stuff ?  Steam showing "this application is unavailable at this time" ?


Soon, we'll have DRM built in our fridges. And we'll have pay-per-minute licensing for OS and games. And you're naive if you think that it will make playing them cheaper for you.


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

streetfighter 2 said:


> The opposing (which isn't to say my) perspective might say: in order to preserve the prospering society with which you live in, the interests of the rich (read corporations) must be protected so that they'll give jobs to poor useless worms like us.  Also given that a huge, huge, absolutely unfathomably large chunk of the cheddar in the USA is nothing more than intellectual property...





Mr McC said:


> Trickle-down economics is a fallacy: people are too greedy.



and they would be false, streetfighter.

not everyone is too greedy.   but everyone has it in them to be so, and the more the temptation is there, the more opportunity there is, and the more people (peers) around you acting on it - the more likely you will too.


----------



## Thatguy (Jan 4, 2011)

trickson said:


> Yeah well it is easier to put DRM on hardware than to keep drunks from driving and killing people .



  death penalty on the first offense, think you'd see alot of drunk drivers then ??


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

robal said:


> Think now. How many times a faulty Securom detection... or online activation, or other crap prevented you from running your game ?
> How many times you had HDCP issue ? DVD region issue ?  iPlayer (UK) deleting your stuff ?  Steam showing "this application is unavailable at this time" ?




Honestly, it happens so infrequently to me that i cannot remember when the last time was that I had any issues with DRM. I have well over 200 games in STEAM, never any issues with DVD's, and never had any content I have purchased disappear. 


I do have a drive in my basement killed by StarForce...like 5 years ago...


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## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Honestly, it happens so infrequently to me that i cannot remember when the last time was that I had any issues with DRM. I have well over 200 games in STEAM, never any issues with DVD's, and never had any content I have purchased disappear.
> 
> 
> I do have a drive in my basement killed by StarForce...like 5 years ago...




wasn't able to use my steam account for a week while internet was down, because i did not set it to "offline" BEFORE i unexpectedly lost connection.
that means unable to play hundreds of games i own, thousands of dollars i have spent unusable - because i am automatically considered a thief.
unable to legally (it's dark grey)  make a copy of a movie i purchased, to play on a portable player.  do not have an alternative 80% of the time, because rather than spending money ADAPTING to the world - the companies spend money, FIGHTING PROGRESS.

ubisoft protection - spend 60$ on the new version of settlers, to be unable to play it as internet in my area is spotty.  i would get 10 or so mins before it did a quick drop and kicked me out of the game.

i have to wait minutes to watch a movie that i legally purchased - so they can try to sell me more crap - and also tell me every single time that i am liable for 100,000 times the media's worth if i make a copy.
if you don't care - you don't care.  but if you do, there are more than enough examples of the inconvenience it adds for legit consumers - while doing little to nothing to stop piracy.


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## Bo$$ (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> xp had activation & keys, that's drm.



oh ok, i meant sort of REALLY intrusive DRM, like Securom and that bullshit


----------



## streetfighter 2 (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> and they would be false, streetfighter.
> 
> not everyone is too greedy.   but everyone has it in them to be so, and the more the temptation is there, the more opportunity there is, and the more people (peers) around you acting on it - the more likely you will too.


They would be wrong, but they also happen to be a significant chunk of the voting population.  I don't care whether they're greedy, stupid and/or overweight, they exist and that's what matters to me.


----------



## hat (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> But the move to hardware-based solutions may mean that there is a complete stop to the obtrusive software that so many complain about.
> 
> 
> I mean, the days of StarForce and thier annoying DRM that killed your drive are come and gone...



Replacing software DRM with hardware DRM doesn't make DRM go away just because there's no more software DRM (which will never happen, we know it will be both hardware AND software).



cadaveca said:


> If in the end, the DRM has no effect, and is seamless in such a way that it has no impact on your experience, then what's the issue?
> 
> All the actual complaints i hear in here have nothing to do with DRM, nor any of the limitations contained within DRM itself...it's more an outcry about "Big Brother" poking thier nose in your "business".



Let's ask Mussels how much he likes using his Z-5500 setup to get 5.1 content from his TV.




cadaveca said:


> There's no loss of freedoms...no loss of rights...not ones that are real rights or freedoms, anyway. There are things that limit your choices when it comes to consumable content, but as none of these actaully impact your health(other than maybe mental health), I find any complaints about DRM as kinda close-minded about the entire situation as a whole. Limitation of choices pertaining to goods produced solely for comspumption and purchase, and that are completly optional purchases, makes sense.
> 
> 
> The problem of piracy exists. DRM seeks to be the solution. While it may not take the avenues most want, I cannot see any legitimate restrictions placed by DRM that aren't warranted...nor are they against any law.



No, DRM does not reach into my guts and tie my colon in a knot when I launch a Steam game, however, the list of bullshit that DRM introduces to *legitimate users* is quite long... and pirates don't get affected by the same issues. The only thing pirates have to deal with in terms of DRM cockblocking them out of a feature that I know of is being able to play games online, but that doesn't stop them from playing a multitude of singleplayer games, or pirating everything else that's not a game.


----------



## Batou1986 (Jan 4, 2011)

Easy solution Don't buy Intel stuff, The wallet speaks louder then the mouth to corporations.


----------



## TheMonkey (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> LoLz. It's interesting to see the comments.
> 
> How do you protect your stuff? Your family? Yourself?
> 
> ...




Tom, I'm standing in South Park, Colorado, where the rock band, MOOP, has refused to play. The strike started yesterday and could go well into next week.


Tom, we're now entering the second day of the rock band MOOP's refusal to play, and the second day of absolutely no other news to report on. In a recent poll we asked people if MOOP's refusal to play would stop them from downloading music off the Internet. One percent said yes. Two percent said no. And ninety-seven percent said, "Who the hell is MOOP?!" Back to you, Tom.


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## Bo$$ (Jan 4, 2011)

Comunism got a whole new home...


----------



## hat (Jan 4, 2011)

Bo$$ said:


> Comunism got a whole new home...



Karl Marx said something along the lines of: Americans will never accept Communism as a whole, but slip it to them piece by peice and they'll never know the difference.

Same thing happening here... always some small piece of the puzzle being slipped in, through DRM, remote shutdown tech, etc... all in the name of safety, security, protection... but you end up with less and less control over your own stuff, more and more restrictions.


----------



## Frick (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> wasn't able to use my steam account for a week while internet was down, because i did not set it to "offline" BEFORE i unexpectedly lost connection.
> that means unable to play hundreds of games i own, thousands of dollars i have spent unusable - because i am automatically considered a thief.
> unable to legally (it's dark grey)  make a copy of a movie i purchased, to play on a portable player.  do not have an alternative 80% of the time, because rather than spending money ADAPTING to the world - the companies spend money, FIGHTING PROGRESS.
> 
> ...



Sadly, people with spotty connections will get kicked out of society all together imo. My mom have for years now spoken about how in the future we all have chip implants that dictates your money, your job and your personality. Take the idea further and it'll be in everything. I fear she might be right.


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:
			
		

> But suck it up, princess...if you want to watch my movies, or listen to my music, you'll do it how and when I say, as they are not just entertainment...they are part of me as a person, and character.
> 
> You steal parts of me, I'm coming to your house to take them back. You take my mind, I take your soul.



and that's a little dramatic.  maybe at the most they are making a copy of something that you made one time - not the same as stealing a part of you.  to even infer(let alone proclaim, aggressively) that it is , is ridiculous.


----------



## hat (Jan 4, 2011)

We already have all that, Frick. It's just not physically a part of our bodies yet.


----------



## Frick (Jan 4, 2011)

hat said:


> We already have all that, Frick. It's just not physically a part of our bodies yet.



In some ways, yes.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> inconvenience



Key word. Break it, circumvent it, and it will just get WORSE. I decide to chose my battles, and yes, this is one I do not find worth fighting. Did I mention that it WORKS for me? Oh, yeah...I did. Sry.


Oh, and BTW, read your EULA...you don't OWN a single piece of software. You OWN the RIGHT to use a certain peice of software, within the writer's explicit rules as to how, when, and where.

If the writer decides to change the rules(and this is usually in most EULAs), you may be forced to forfeit that right of use, and this right of usage is not eternal.



digibucc said:


> and that's a little dramatic.  maybe at the most they are making a copy of something that you made one time - not the same as stealing a part of you.  to even infer(let alone proclaim, aggressively) that it is , is ridiculous.




Yes, possibly so, but I think that the whole uproar over DRM is just as ridiculous. Like for like...


----------



## Bo$$ (Jan 4, 2011)

hat said:


> Karl Marx said something along the lines of: Americans will never accept Communism as a whole, but slip it to them piece by peice and they'll never know the difference.
> 
> Same thing happening here... always some small piece of the puzzle being slipped in, through DRM, remote shutdown tech, etc... all in the name of safety, security, protection... but you end up with less and less control over your own stuff, more and more restrictions.



I guess this chunk was too large for you guys 

and yes as the cadaveca said earlier the EULA state we never own the software we buy


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Key word. Break it, circumvent it, and it will just get WORSE. I decide to chose my battles, and yes, this is one I do not find worth fighting.
> 
> 
> Oh, and BTW, read your EULA...you don't OWN a single piece of software. You OWN the RIGHT to use a certain peice of software, within the writer's explicit rules as to how, when, and where.
> ...


that is a horrible attitude.  do the real world effects of piracy not come into play at all?  the fact that it, in reality, does much less to hurt sales
than advertised , doesn't matter?  they have a right to just keep making it worse and worse for ME, because someone ELSE bypassed their protection?  that's stupid.

i do own my hardware - and they should not be allowed to limit it further, by assuming i am a thief.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 4, 2011)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> all ican say is if theres DRM in my cpu wheres the shit that keeps drunk drivers from driving or automatically drives my car without me actually driving it or etc i think the world has bigger issues then OMG stop ppl from copying are shit NOAW!!!!.  seriously this is retarded



<<<(Channels inner Sam Kinison) IF WE DON"T DRIVE DRUNK HOW IN THE F@#K DO WE GET THE CAR HOME?!? NO BODY WANTS TO DRIVE DRUNK. YOU DON'T GET DRUNK TO SEE HOW WELL YOU DO ON A TEST DO YOU?! WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO? RIDE THE F#$KING BUS?! AWAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAA







<< (Now TheMailMan sits back and waits for the younger members to google Sam Kinison)


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> << (Now TheMailMan sits back and waits for the younger members to google Sam Kinison)



no need - in the vein of hicks, my personal favorite


----------



## Bo$$ (Jan 4, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> (Now TheMailMan sits back and waits for the younger members to google Sam Kinison)



Keep waiting big boy


----------



## Frick (Jan 4, 2011)

Bo$$ said:


> I guess this chunk was too large for you guys



No, it's too true for quoting (plus I didn't read that post). 

Anyway, what about the countries that doesn't have many laws regarding piracy? Will US laws be forces on them through hardware?


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

Frick said:


> No, it's too true for quoting (plus I didn't read that post).
> 
> Anyway, what about the countries that doesn't have many laws regarding piracy? Will US laws be forces on them through hardware?



uh, yes.



Frick said:


> It was more of a rethorical question.



i know i'm sorry, couldn't help it


----------



## Frick (Jan 4, 2011)

It was more of a rethorical question.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 4, 2011)

First HDCP, now this.  Come on Intel, grow a pair!  You aren't pirating anything so the MPAA has no authority over you.  Why do you bow to empty threats?


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 4, 2011)

Bo$$ said:


> Keep waiting big boy



Well if you don't know who he is then you are missing out.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> that is a horrible attitude.  do the real world effects of piracy not come into play at all?  the fact that it, in reality, does much less to hurt sales
> than advertised , doesn't matter?  they have a right to just keep making it worse and worse for ME, because someone ELSE bypassed their protection?  that's stupid.
> 
> but i do own my hardware - and they should not be allowed to limit it further, by assuming i am a thief.






OK, in that context, sure, you may be right. It's NOT fair...but life never is.

Frankly, I don't understand jsut one side of your argument...where do you think that you have the right to buy products such as hardware as you want them? I mean, if that's teh case, shouldn't you be maknig your own hardware?

But you cannot, can you? So you have no choice but to take what they give you, or have none. Are you forced to live under these restrictions? No..you simply need not buy. YOU made the choice to invest in hardware and software, probably full well knowing that things like this were possible, and eventual, so to complain now...seems...wrong?

It's not like any of this is new. You bought UBI software, even when it was made known well before relase that this DRM was quite "controlling"...again..you chose to make that purchase under the conditions already imposed...again...YOUR CHOICE...

I mean, I hear where you are coming form, but no, I do NOT think you ahve any right at all to dictate how and what hardware is made with, or what technologies it contains, unless you ow nthe company making the product. Consumerism is thus.


----------



## Frick (Jan 4, 2011)

FordGT90Concept said:


> First HDCP, now this.  Come on Intel, grow a pair!  You aren't pirating anything so the MPAA has no authority over you.  Why do you bow to empty threats?



I'm thinking they are bought.

At least this is limited to a single service.

"The feature in time will trickle down to Intel's other consumer chip offerings, Regis said. Intel is also partnering with more studios and announcements will be made in the upcoming months."

I just hope that doesn't mean it'll trickle down to other things as well.


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> OK, in that context, sure, you may be right. It's NOT fair...but life never is.
> 
> Frankly, I don't understand jsut one side of your argument...where do you think that you have the right to buy products such as hardware as you want them? I mean, if that's teh case, shouldn't you be maknig your own hardware?
> 
> ...



as i said 
"accept it or #$%@ off"

but that's not right.  and just because life is never fair doesn't mean i have to be ok with it.
it's not like intel said "hey, i want to piss off my customers , how can i do that?  i know! let's add DRM to HARDWARE.  
I wouldn't be ok with that either, but at least that would the hardware manufacturer's idea.

the way it is now, they do what they can to get the most powerful, efficient hardware to me at a reasonable price - or they suffer market consequences.
but if media corporations have their say, the main goal would be to have hardware that is uncrackable - with performance and price an afterthought.  i am not ok with that.

no one wrote a contract saying i have a right to my hardware always being open - but that doesn't mean i am wrong for expecting and wanting it.  
that is the way it has been, and the way it should be.  media corp should not be given all power to stand in the way of progress, by demanding certain things impossible.  
whatever they are.

also, a personally-built pc is not really a consumer electronic.  
if dell or gateway wanted to do this, no problem.  but to make it impossible to buy a new intel processor without drm built on, is ridiculous.


----------



## Bo$$ (Jan 4, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> <<<(Channels inner Sam Kinison) IF WE DON"T DRIVE DRUNK HOW IN THE F@#K DO WE GET THE CAR HOME?!? NO BODY WANTS TO DRIVE DRUNK. YOU DON'T GET DRUNK TO SEE HOW WELL YOU DO ON A TEST DO YOU?! WHAT ARE WE GONNA DO? RIDE THE F#$KING BUS?! AWAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAA
> 
> http://newshawker.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Sam-Kinison.jpg
> 
> << (Now TheMailMan sits back and waits for the younger members to google Sam Kinison)


on a tangent
Oh i remember this guy now  
cant believe i forgot his name 


intel gotta smarter than this, hopefully they ditch this retarded plan


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> ~snip~


"you can please some of the people all the time, or all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time."

Intel needs investment. The got it from Hollywood. It's not like they had any other option...you really...cannot fault them. Intel want PCs in every living room, and this is how they must do it.

I mea really, these cpus are for laptops and thin clients...not really desktops. They aren't really supposed to be in the desktop space...so this cpu you have issue with..isn't even intended for YOUR type of uses.

maybe the same will follow for skt 2011...or whatever the X58 replacement is, but notice in the Intel relases, even, they talk ALOT about laptops and such.

And understanding why this sort of tech belongs specifically in those devices, and not in a desktop computer...well..that should be obvious. Hopefully Intel thinks so too.

 I mean really..P67 has no video outputs, yet the gpu is there in every 1155 product...WTF is P67 for? H67, ok, I understand, but why would you buy a cpu with an integrated gpu, and put it in a board where the gpu will never ever get used? Why do these boards exist?

Anyone got  some answers for me?


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> ...



i understand and recognize that. as i said i don't stream movies on my pc. if i did i likely would not be trying to copy them.  if i wanted to i am sure there would be a way around their protection, hardware software or otherwise.

but i have a problem with big media having this kind of power.  every instance like this adds up, and before too long it's illegal to have more than 5 people at your house watching a movie!  (without paying a fee per person)

left to their own devices, corporations will rob us blind.  the last thing we need to do is just be ok with all these advances, because each little one doesn't affect me.  before long, one will - and by then the precedent is set and the momentum built - it's much harder to stop.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

Read my Edit(sry, sometimes I type slow lol).

Again though, I do nto think this product is even geared towards desktop users. And the platforms that it is...well...like I said..answer my questions, and maybe this will make senes, becuase it doesn't to me...yet.


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

to be perfectly honest, i didn't read the article and don't know the specs. i don't even care to.

i have a problem with the idea itself, and that's what i was arguing against.


----------



## DannibusX (Jan 4, 2011)

digibucc said:


> to be perfectly honest, *i didn't read the article and don't know the specs. i don't even care to.*
> 
> i have a problem with the idea itself, and that's what i was arguing against.



You should run for office!


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 4, 2011)

DannibusX said:


> You should run for office!



If he votes on bills the same way I smell the next President!


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

DannibusX said:


> You should run for office!





TheMailMan78 said:


> If he votes on bills the same way I smell the next President!



lol i know, i know.

i rarely do that, promise   but in this case i felt comfortable.  the facts were simple enough - 
the specs or target segment make no difference in my opinion, so i didn't see it being necessary...
i would think the majority of posters here did the same.

and, i promise not to do that when i read the bills, and run for office


----------



## pantherx12 (Jan 4, 2011)

I imagine it's been said, but DRM doesn't stop piracy or pirates it only restricts normal users.

Pirates and hackers can get round pretty much anything.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

OK, so I'd like you to think about my homenetwork, DRM, and how it all rolls together.

My 360 is also a cable box. My pc can stream recorded shows off of that box.

I can also use netflix on my 360....and then stream the netflix out to the laptop.

I have IPTV over FIOS.

together all these technologies, with the added SandyBridge DRM, allows me alot of extra functionality that just isn't there without it.

the DRM allows them to keep the movies and such streamed via PPV or such to be locked up, and movies too. Now, the moment a movie comes out at the theatre, I might be able to buy it, and watch it from home. however, becuase it's at the same time at the theatre, the only way for them to keep the theatre market alive is to restrict how that streaming is handled, and what can be done with it.

this tech is far more invasive than even you imagine. And it's well along in the marketplace too...you just don't hear much about it. And while there could be many potential issues that arise from such tech, it does also offer me functionality that is not available iwthout it.


----------



## digibucc (Jan 4, 2011)

yeah but i highly doubt it will equal getting movies in homes faster, or at least much faster.

it's much more likely they will use it to limit the current possibilities further, imo.


----------



## Bo$$ (Jan 4, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> I imagine it's been said, but DRM doesn't stop piracy or pirates it only restricts normal users.
> 
> Pirates and hackers can get round pretty much anything.



last 5 pages filled with that 

AMD you got a fuck load of new customers, bring on bulldozer!!


----------



## KainXS (Jan 4, 2011)

aaahhh i hope it doesn't happen, when shit like this happens it always gets used in ways it wasn't intened by both sides, these companies and the government use a back door, hackers hack the hell out of it any way they can.

where do you point the finger, i point it to the companies and the governments pockets(cause thats all they give a shit about) and hackers epenis's(bigger epenis= profit???)

a neverending war that only hurts the consumer and prevents upcoming artist from wanting to do anything.


----------



## hellrazor (Jan 4, 2011)

I'll settle this argument right now:
More > less

In every way possible. Take Linux for example, over 70% of the kernel development may be done by paid proffesionals BUT they are from different companies. Now Winblows is only made by Microsoft, and anybody that has experience with both of them can tell you which one runs faster, is more secure, more customizable, gets upgrades quicker, etc., etc.

Now take piracy, somebody puts DRM on their game and nobody likes it, within the day I can go to TPB and download the full game+cracked .exe and have it running smoothly.

For hardware DRM, the easiest way to get around it would be to fool the processor into thinking normal shit is going on. Just get a hook on whatever you're using to watch the movie, encrypt the data, decrypt it as you save it to your hard drive, easy-peasy, problem solved. Ask FRAPS or Afterburner. Or you can simply go fullscreen, get a program that can copy the raster from the video card (maybe the program you're using to stream the movie), watcha gonna do now? Processor think it's suspicious your saving a direct copy to your hard drive? Encrypt it, send it over the network (fighting fire with fire?) to another computer (one with an AMD processor, maybe), step 2:???? step 3rofit. Anyone?

And I'm just one person, think what more people can do.


----------



## Nick89 (Jan 4, 2011)

Mussels said:


> its the opposite to a classic car. its a new car with speed limits (so you cant accelerate faster than a set rate or pass a certain speed) where the seats cant be adjusted and you cant attach a tow ball to use a trailer.
> 
> giving a decent analogy here: the new car (despite its lack of features) is 30% more fuel efficient. the philosophy is that if you dont agree with it, you obviously hate the environment, murder puppies and agree with all evil things about pollution.
> 
> ...



Well siad Mussels! well said!



wolf said:


> I wish this DRM nonsense would stop, now it's being built into hardware?
> 
> where does it end?



They are human, their greed will never end.


----------



## hellrazor (Jan 4, 2011)

Nick89 said:


> They are human, their greed will never end.



Not even greed, more like retardeness. How much money has it taken to develop this? How much money to crack it like an egg? Seriously, within a month of it being released somebody with nothing to do will make omelets out of this in 15 minutes of work.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 4, 2011)

hellrazor said:


> Not even greed, more like retardeness. How much money has it taken to develop this? How much money to crack it like an egg? Seriously, within a month of it being released somebody with nothing to do will make omelets out of this in 15 minutes of work.



yes, but the actions that do that will only make it worse. One bad apple...one bad apple.


----------



## Munki (Jan 4, 2011)

Intel must be run by a bunch of morons...they know good and well that a good deal of the people who buy their processors do something at one point or another 'illegal' for want to do something that the DRM will prevent. They are greedy, there is no question. Well, if your greedy and want more money, why piss off the buyer? Well, this should be good.


----------



## MaxAwesome (Jan 5, 2011)

Is this even confirmed? 

And is it present in every LGA 1155 CPU? 

How will this affect us? As I understand, it is only a measure to make it harder to pirate streamed movies when using Intel's Insider Video Service?

Nothing else?

This won't affect games, or music, I believe. Or most movies, for that matter.

If you happen to download a movie from you-know-where, your CPU isn't going to report you to the authorities, or stop working, or BLOW UP.


----------



## LAN_deRf_HA (Jan 5, 2011)

You can argue about the ethics of hardware drm to no end, but for this particular instance ask does this really effect you? If I'm gonna pirate I'll grab a torrent or rip from a bluray. I'm not renting some 1080p stream just to rip it. The vast majority of pirates just download someone else's work.


----------



## Kwod (Jan 5, 2011)

If piracy is such a problem, why don't they do something with pricing?.....$38-$48 for some 90min blurays in Australia.
What would happen if games for example were $38 instead of $78....?


----------



## Thatguy (Jan 5, 2011)

Kwod said:


> If piracy is such a problem, why don't they do something with pricing?.....$38-$48 for some 90min blurays in Australia.
> What would happen if games for example were $38 instead of $78....?



   oh god, less profit.


----------



## Kwod (Jan 5, 2011)

Thatguy said:


> oh god, less profit.



But hang on, "if" piracy is such a big problem, and lower prices reduces piracy and generates larger sales volumes, where's the problem...?


----------



## cdawall (Jan 5, 2011)

hmmm well now they have remote kill switches and DRM intel is going to anger alot of people...wonder how much they are getting paid to add DRM. no big deal i'm sure hackers will figure out how to emulate the DRM and then burn the stream without it. 

more than likely it will be a nuisance to most normal people just like DRM on games i legally purchase from a store :/ if i have to jump through hoops and own _exactly_ the correct copy of windows i am not going to stream anything because it will be easier for me to buy the damn bluray. however if this works correctly and is integrated into windows and netflix or whatever it may come out ahead and may end up in AMD and via chips just like SSE instructions. however if this ends up being a bloatware that slows cpus i will be very unhappy myself i work very hard to try and remove spy/adware from my pc if intel comes out and creates an instruction on my cpu that is a gateway for hollywood ads everytime i watch a movie that cannot be disabled i will be purchasing other companies chips. now if i can click in the BIOS to kill this just like AMD live or executive bit disable it makes no difference to me it will be on the group of things i shut off in the BIOS


----------



## hellrazor (Jan 5, 2011)

Kwod said:


> But hang on, "if" piracy is such a big problem, and lower prices reduces piracy and generates larger sales volumes, where's the problem...?



They think it'll be cheaper to put DRM on everything. Therefore, the illusion of less profit.


----------



## btarunr (Jan 5, 2011)

Intel is shooting itself in the foot with this. AMD still has decent processors and chipset IGPs which most consumers can use without any BS nanny microcode.


----------



## cdawall (Jan 5, 2011)

btarunr said:


> Intel is shooting itself in the foot with this. AMD still has decent processors and chipset IGPs which most consumers can use without any BS nanny microcode.



hmmm that brings a good point think intel will add a porn blocker to its microcode next? or how about a torrent blocker and while we are at it lets make overclocking impossible except on like 3 chips and remove the warranty from them since only overclockers will buy them


----------



## Mussels (Jan 5, 2011)

Kwod said:


> If piracy is such a problem, why don't they do something with pricing?.....$38-$48 for some 90min blurays in Australia.
> What would happen if games for example were $38 instead of $78....?



because they spent all their money on the anti piracy methods.




for a completely perfect example, look at the recent steam sales. i know a LOT of people who had pirated games, and bought them because they were suddenly cheaper.


if movies and games were cheaper, many pirates would just buy them to save the hassle.


----------



## Steevo (Jan 5, 2011)

I started watching movies for free on questionable sites when the movie I rented wouldn't play on a hardware accelerated S-video connection to my projector as it wasn't DRM compatible. Then I grew even more hate when a favorite site of mine was shutdown, not for actually hosting content, but for providing links to other very popular sites. 

No Timmy, you cannot tell others where to get the lemonade, your going to jail. But Suzy can continue to provide out lemonade for free that she steals and we know its there......


----------



## cdawall (Jan 5, 2011)

Mussels said:


> because they spent all their money on the anti piracy methods.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



agreed coming from a person with a few freebies


----------



## hat (Jan 5, 2011)

Yeah, about 1/3 of the games I legally own on Steam (or otherwise legally own and added to my Steam games list manually) were games I pirated previously. Most of those games are games that don't even have multiplayer, or games that I didn't care for the multiplayer in them very much and never played it, so legally owning it got me no benefit.


----------



## SuPeR FlYYY (Jan 5, 2011)

Mussels said:


> please, dont be stupid.
> 
> 
> every time one of these DRM discussions comes along, someone always goes "OMG ALL WHO OPPOSE, CONDONE PIRACY/CHILD PORN/ETC"
> ...


----------



## qubit (Jan 5, 2011)

*@cadaveca*

I've read some of this thread and can't believe just how pro DRM and misguided your are about it. :shadedshu DRM is bad, period. It screws the honest consumer every time and is ineffective at stopping people making copies.* I will not call them that deliberately nasty and misleading mis-label, "pirates". Pirates are violent criminals of the high seas, nothing more.

Here's a very good article from TechDirt that I think you should read. The subject of DRM has many angles and this one is a good eye opener: An Economic Explanation For Why DRM Cannot Open Up New Business Model Opportunities It basically can only contain one - and shafts the legitimate user in the process. 


*It's inherently broken. Here's why: with normal encryption, A wants to share a file with B without letting C see it. A gives B the key and then sends the file, encrypted. B decrypts the file using the key and is now free to whatever they want with that file, including making a zillion copies of it if they want to.

If C wants to crack the encryption, it can well be impossible to do it within a lifetime, given today's technology if implemented properly. Therefore the file is secure from C.

This is not so with DRM.

In this scenario, A is the content producer, while the the user is _both_ B _&_ C. In other words, the user has the content _and_ the key. Perhaps you can now start to see the inherent weakness?

All DRM does is try to authorize the _use_ of that key in certain prescribed ways, as defined by A. However, A's problem is that there's always _some_ way to get to that key and break the encryption, allowing BC to get past their damned access control. It's only a matter of time and usually it's broken within a day to a week. Heck, just watching a DVD is "breaking" the encryption! Just one more hurdle with Macrovision and the vision and sound can be recorded in analog form in real time. Not very efficient and there's some loss of quality, yet a very good copy has still been made.

Even the HDCP DRM encryption which stood up for a few years was recently broken and devices are being made and sold which will copy a HDCP stream without any problem. And good on them! 

Content producers need to stop messing with this shit and find a new business model. TechDirt has already listed many ways in which this can be done and is well worth a read.

Finally, it's being proven as we speak that digital content still sells well even without DRM. Just look at iTunes and the Amazon music stores. No DRM there and they're making nice fat profits... and so are the bloody music industry who keep bleating about unproven "incalculable losses". The liars.   Heck, CoD: Black Ops was the most pirated game of last year and yet funnily enough, also sold shitloads and made their makers multiple millions, didn't it? Losses from "piracy", my ass. Most likely it helped fuel sales.


----------



## Frick (Jan 5, 2011)

qubit said:


> Heck, CoD: Black Ops was the most pirated game of last year and yet funnily enough, also sold shitloads and made their makers multiple millions, didn't it? Losses from "piracy", my ass. Most likely it helped fuel sales.



I totally believe that some of the pirates would buy the game if there was no pirate version. I can pretty much guarantee it. Do the creators/publishers loose a sale for every pirated copy? No. But it does affect sales, it's the entire reason piracy exists: They do not want to pay. Sadly though, the companies seem to have the same economical views as the ones saying you save money when you buy more things. 

Anyway, I think this DRM thing isn't that bad as of yet as it's tied to services, probably paid services on top of that.

EDIT: I wonder what the EU think of this?


----------



## Completely Bonkers (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Yes, I am willing to accept that. I don't mind paying people for thier work, and no, I don't need to own everything eternally. DRM has no real impact on my life that is negative, and I spend more time on my PC than most.
> 
> I just dropped $2500 on yet another Gibson guitar. I hate to say it, but DRM ensures that that purchase was possible.



Seriously, WTF? You shouldnt be allowed to buy a guitar! You should only be allowed to rent it. And, BTW, Gibson only gives you a license to use the guitar such that all "notes" still belong to them FTW! You think you have performance rights? What about their instrumentation rights?

I'll get them so send you a bill


----------



## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Jan 5, 2011)

Mussels said:


> ..copying and spreading that pirated copy of a sleeping dog sleepwalking its way into a wall.


Saw that.. I think it was sleep-running.


----------



## Wile E (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> But the move to hardware-based solutions may mean that there is a complete stop to the obtrusive software that so many complain about.
> 
> 
> I mean, the days of StarForce and thier annoying DRM that killed your drive are come and gone...
> ...


No matter what you do, the hardware will require software to do it's job. It will be bypassed. Apple's DRM on OS X is hardware based. that didn't last long, did it?


----------



## Frick (Jan 5, 2011)

Completely Bonkers said:


> Seriously, WTF? You shouldnt be allowed to buy a guitar! You should only be allowed to rent it. And, BTW, Gibson only gives you a license to use the guitar such that all "notes" still belong to them FTW! You think you have performance rights? What about their instrumentation rights?
> 
> I'll get them so send you a bill



This is  a problem. People treat information (aka programs) the same way as guitars or cars or whatever.


----------



## HalfAHertz (Jan 5, 2011)

Can someone explain the principle of Intel's planned DRM?

So they have some on die silicon dedicated to: a)provide a key that lets you watch online HD content, meaning that you can watch it only if you buy intel's chips or b)tries to detect if you're trying to copy the digital HD content and stop you or c) detect the online HD content, isolate it and encrypt it preventing you from doing anything else but view it or d) HaH, you dummy it's none of the above


----------



## Frick (Jan 5, 2011)

HalfAHertz said:


> Can someone explain the principle of Intel's planned DRM?
> 
> So they have some on die silicon dedicated to: a)provide a key that lets you watch online HD content, meaning that you can watch it only if you buy intel's chips or b)tries to detect if you're trying to copy the digital HD content and stop you or c) detect the online HD content, isolate it and encrypt it preventing you from doing anything else but view it or d) HaH, you dummy it's none of the above



I'd say it's "c". Keys is not a very good idea, the same goes for copy detection. At least that's what I think.


----------



## HalfAHertz (Jan 5, 2011)

Frick said:


> This is  a problem. People treat information (aka programs) the same way as guitars or cars or whatever.



WTF you mean to tell me that all the little 1s and 0s are not the same as real physical objects? Do you even realize how much harder it is to have to press CTRL+C and CTRL+V compared to making some silly wooden guitar by hand? OMG guys lynch this blasphemer!

Edit: if it's option b) or c) both of them will have some kind of overhead and slowdowns because extra computation will be involved, unless of course that extra silicon is not a fixed function unit. In that case Intel may use the option as a leverage against their competitor's product - they'll be doing all the work in hardware when the competition will have to do it all in software.


----------



## Frick (Jan 5, 2011)

HalfAHertz said:


> Edit: if it's option b) or c) both of them will have some kind of overhead and slowdowns because extra computation will be involved, unless of course that extra silicon is not a fixed function unit. In that case Intel may use the option as a leverage against their competitor's product - they'll be doing all the work in hardware when the competition will have to do it all in software.



That's what it looks like to me.

And this 1's and 0's. They are not the same, but maybe they should be? There is no actual production involved, but they are spending as much time and resorces on development as they are with lets say cars. So in some ways they are the same thing: There is tons of money invested in the programs. It's the reason why I want to pay for programs I use. But they're not "real". Maybe it's time to reconsider what we think is real and not.


----------



## HalfAHertz (Jan 5, 2011)

Frick said:


> That's what it looks like to me.
> 
> And this 1's and 0's. They are not the same, but maybe they should be? There is no actual production involved, but they are spending as much time and resorces on development as they are with lets say cars. So in some ways they are the same thing: There is tons of money invested in the programs. It's the reason why I want to pay for programs I use. But they're not "real". Maybe it's time to reconsider what we think is real and not.



Making cars or anything for that matter involves 1) R&D 2)Ton of testing 2)Production 3)Distribution 4)shitloads of marketing, legal costs, etc. With software right off the bat you can easily get rid of the production and distribution costs. There's not much research involved and testing is easier that that of a physical product. So all in all your main cost is development.

OF course price is lower than that of a physical object in most cases, but does it truly reflect all the costs involved. For example is Call of duty really worth 60$?

What I'm saying is that if the media industry really wants to be treated like the car industry(or any other physical product) then they should follow the same rules.


----------



## cdawall (Jan 5, 2011)

Frick said:


> This is  a problem. People treat information (aka programs) the same way as guitars or cars or whatever.



I think that's kinda funny maybe drm should be added to cares you know make sure they aren't stolen but let's make it work as well as drm so you have to do a funny dance next to the car everytime you want to use it. See the funny dance is hackable like drm and stupid like drm its perfect.


----------



## sliderider (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Sure, I get that, but you are not making music or video for sale, are you?



Anyone who pirates music and movies would not have paid for that content in the first place either because they can't afford it, or because they just like "sticking it to the man". This BS sob story that MPAA and RIAA keep putting out about every download being a lost sale is just that, BS. It's like the games industry now saying they want to put Gamestop out of business because they sell used games and every used game sold replaces a new game sale. That's crap and they know it. People who buy the used game for $20 6 months later can't afford to buy the new one for $50 or $60 when it is first released. Used game trades are also a big driver of new game sales. If it wasn't for the availability of used games the console makers might also sell fewer units and that would translate to a smaller customer base for the game developers because fewer people would be able to afford to take up gaming as a hobby. All three industries are cutting their own throats by making legit users of their products suffer because the actions of a few, and in fact, may be creating more pirates rather than less as more and more people get fed up with their BS and turn to alternative channels for their entertainment needs.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

Wile E said:


> No matter what you do, the hardware will require software to do it's job. It will be bypassed. Apple's DRM on OS X is hardware based. that didn't last long, did it?



Actually, ask FITs how easy it was to get his hackintosh going. 


You guys..this is a tech forum, I covertly placed an image of a product, and you guys completely ignore it. And then continue ranting about DRM. 






Epic troll is Epic troll.



Oh, and for those wondering...this isn't just some rumour or hype...every Core Generation 2 product will have this hardware-based DRM functionality, and YES! Intel partnered with Hollywood on it.

And yes, I was trolling yesterday.


But not a "bad" troll...I am really interested in everyone's opinion on the subject. Give me a sec, and I'll glue the horns back on.




Completely Bonkers said:


> Seriously, WTF? You shouldnt be allowed to buy a guitar! You should only be allowed to rent it. And, BTW, Gibson only gives you a license to use the guitar such that all "notes" still belong to them FTW! You think you have performance rights? What about their instrumentation rights?
> 
> I'll get them so send you a bill


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Actually, ask FITs how easy it was to get his hackintosh going.
> 
> 
> You guys..this is a tech forum, I covertly placed an image of a product, and you guys completely ignore it. And then continue ranting about DRM.
> ...



Well I stop posting when you started. Trolls are like Highlanders. There can be only one.


----------



## DannibusX (Jan 5, 2011)

P67 box in the guitar photo?

Or was it your vampire like fingertoes?


----------



## Frick (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> lolz i was just trollin'



Lamest excuse in the book.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

Frick said:


> Lamest excuse in the book.



LoL. Lamest miss in the book. You can't really play both sides of the fence, and NOT be trolling. A few members recognized it...

I mean seriously, I could care less either way about DRM. I do not understand all the uproar about it either...but really...like I said, I don't care. I pay for my stuff, it works, and I cannot complain about that. And the bit about the guitars is true...I actually have many Gibson guitars. Midnight Studio, Ebony Standard, Robot Studio(Blue), Gary Moore BFG, and the White Buckethead in the pic. I'm starting a new project, so the new guitar will colour hte sound in a way others cannot, becuase it's so stinking huge...


I'm one of those "Jack of all Trades, Master of NONE". I do every little thing I can to get cash, but at the same time, I re-invest the money I make back into what got me the money in the first place. Is DRM part of that...sure...but it's not something I personally need to invest in...it's just part of dealing with that side of my life. With it being all about money, I do try to stay on top of the stuff that may affect that income.

But, I am NOT part of the movie industry.


----------



## Frick (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> LoL. Lamest miss in the book. You can't really play both sides of the fence, and NOT be trolling. A few members recognized it...



Sure you can. You're just not trying hard enough, and the only thing you achieved is that you made some people upset and I think I might have to use small words from now on because you're a retard.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

And that's what gets threads like this closed.

There are many differnt opinions about the subject, and I really want to hear all sides of it, and try to understand them, as currently, I do not.

However, I'm not the one making personal attacks. I merely explained, from what really is kinda my own point of view...how DRM can be useful.

If people got upset..it's the DRM that got them riled up, not me. As if I am that important.

Post reported.:shadedshu

I mean really, if there was no good side to DRM, it wouldn't exist. But it's very real, and very much part of almost every electronic device on the market today.


----------



## Frick (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> And that's what gets threads like this closed.
> 
> There are many differnt opinions about the subject, and I really want to hear all sides of it, and try to understand them, as currently, I do not.
> 
> ...



So.. You missed all the posts responding to that very harsch pro-DRM posts you made in the first place? Seriously, posting things you know will upset people and just play around and then take to the "lolz i'm trolling" thing is utterly utterly pointless, useless and retarded. It's one of the reasons the internet is going downhill.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

I didn't post anything i thought would upset people...if it did, agian, it's not my fault that thier perception of DRM is negative. I do not hold the same opinion, so while it may be pointless to you, it's not to me.


How very nice of you to think that your opinion is the only one that matters. I mean, I'm not even sure what posts you are talking about. Nobody reported any of my posts...so how am I to know?

please show me these posts so I don't do it again. I really do not understand, and am asking for your help here. I do not understand your posts, nor your opinion, but would very much like to.

how am I harsh? Which post(s)? If i'm a retard, please educate me on how i stepped out of line. Nobody bothered to yesterday...


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 5, 2011)

Frick said:


> So.. You missed all the posts responding to that very harsch pro-DRM posts you made in the first place? Seriously, posting things you know will upset people and just play around and then take to the "lolz i'm trolling" thing is utterly utterly pointless, useless and retarded. It's one of the reasons the internet is going downhill.



I ain't defending anyone but when in the hell was the Internet "uphill"?! I mean I've been looking at Internet wierd porn since a 14k modem was cutting edge.


----------



## digibucc (Jan 5, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I ain't defending anyone but when in the hell was the Internet "uphill"?! I mean I've been looking at Internet wierd porn since a 14k modem was cutting edge.



 lol
-----

i can almost believe the "just trolling" dave, but to say you still don't understand either or both sides of the argument? come on dude - this is not rocket science.

you went from entirely hardheaded aggressive yesterday, all the way to
"please explain i truly do not understand" today.  you are either still trolling, or deranged.

i can almost understand pre-teen kiddies going on a trolling spree - 
but once you are over the age of 16 i cannot see the attraction.

if your true goal was understanding sides, you would have played neutral - not devils advocate.  
your goal was to rile up - and now you want to say it wasn't your fault. 
 it was the entire point of your posting anything, it seems.

truthfully, i couldn't care less the reason you said anything you did.  
it was a joke then and even more so now.  either way you need to grow up.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

Deranged. 

I do not think I was agressive...If I was, we all were.


Like...what post?

I mean really, I started posting on TPU agian with the post on how the Twkr CPU was my idea. What do you expect?


----------



## Frick (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Like...what post?





cadaveca said:


> LoLz. It's interesting to see the comments.
> 
> How do you protect your stuff? Your family? Yourself?
> 
> ...



This post.

And I apologize actually, I was a bit harsh. Digibucc said it much better than I did.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

Really? Well I apologize, as well, if that post offended you.

To be honest, I really don't understand why people are so against DRM. Like sure, there are issues that have beeen directly related in the past, but I am of the opinion that fighting it is only going to make it worse.


I also do not think that if you cannot afford something, then you have a right to pirate it. That whole opinion, to me, is super-offensive. While I do not beleive that pirating amounts to sales lost, it is still stealing in my books, and as such, makes those that pirate as good old criminals.


DRM is a reality, that noone is going to eliminate...and those that fight it are the ones making it bad for those that really do pay for thier stuff. It's also not justification to pirate, either.

With that said, while my choice of words may have appeared harsh in that post, that is really how i feel. THAT was not me trolling. But alot of what followed was...not all of it, but yeah...


----------



## hellrazor (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> To be honest, I really don't understand why people are so against DRM.



It's the whole "I own my computer, it does what I tell it to and nothing else", that and DRM doesn't do anything except not work and make you work for it to not work. I have yet to see uncrackable DRM (except those damn dongle things), DRM that only pisses off it's target, or DRM that doesn't slow things down/not get in the way of legit paying customers.


----------



## Thatguy (Jan 5, 2011)

hellrazor said:


> It's the whole "I own my computer, it does what I tell it to and nothing else", that and DRM doesn't do anything except not work and make you work for it to not work. I have yet to see uncrackable DRM (except those damn dongle things), DRM that only pisses off it's target, or DRM that doesn't slow things down/not get in the way of legit paying customers.



  They have hacks for the syncrosoft usb dongles.


----------



## hellrazor (Jan 5, 2011)

Okay, then. There simply is no DRM that isn't uncrackable.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 5, 2011)

hellrazor said:


> Okay, then. There simply is no DRM that isn't uncrackable.



Apparently you are not married. Woman have the patent on unbreakable DRM.


----------



## hellrazor (Jan 5, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Apparently you are not married. Woman have the patent on unbreakable DRM.



But they start throwing dishes, my computer doesn't throw dishes at me if I get a crack for a game.


----------



## DannibusX (Jan 5, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Apparently you are not married. Woman have the patent on unbreakable DRM.



Oh, their DRM is crackable, but you'll spend 25 years in prison before DNA sets you free.


----------



## qubit (Jan 5, 2011)

Well cadaveca, seeing your comments after admitting to "trolling", I'm not sure how much of that was really trolling.

Seriously? 

You're still saying that you don't really see the problem with it and that's more or less what you said before.

Everyone, except Big Media sees exactly what's wrong with it, how can you not? Do you have a connection with Big Media, perhaps?

Did you read that TechDirt article I pointed you to? You say you want to know more, well that's an excellent site for explaining all that's wrong with DRM, but it doesn't appear that you've bothered.

Mike Masnick who runs TechDirt is excellent at outing this crap and www.techdirt.com is well worth a read.

Another excellent site is www.p2pnet.net run by Jon Newton as a personal mission and he _really_ lets them have it. 

Have a look at those sites, see the arguments against DRM and come back to us. I'll be happy to debate the issue with you then. You're welcome to PM me too, if you want.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 5, 2011)

qubit said:


> Well cadaveca, seeing your comments after admitting to "trolling", I'm not sure how much of that was really trolling.
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> ...



Artists also like DRM. I know I do.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

hellrazor said:


> It's the whole "I own my computer, it does what I tell it to and nothing else", that and DRM doesn't do anything except not work and make you work for it to not work. I have yet to see uncrackable DRM (except those damn dongle things), DRM that only pisses off it's target, or DRM that doesn't slow things down/not get in the way of legit paying customers.



Yeah, I kinda understand that, but your pc DOES NOT do what you tell it to do, unless you are not in an OS, and you've written your own. Your PC does what Microsoft and other developers tell it to do, and you liscence the ability for it to do waht they say it should, when you click.

I mean,m even you clicking is nothing but pushing a switch, and it's teh software(drivers, o, etc) that tells the pc what that click is supposed to be.


DRM being crackable isn't going to change my opinion that most taking those steps are technically breaking the law. When you install any app, you agree to use the software as it was provided, and cracking DRM is a breach of that agreement. As such, you have no rights to use the software, as the right is provided to you, again, under the agreement that you will not modify it.

You really have no control, when it's broken all down. You also have very little rights, too.



qubit said:


> Well cadaveca, seeing your comments after admitting to "trolling", I'm not sure how much of that was really trolling.
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> ...



Yes, I read your link, and thank you very much. I guess by your post you are saying that you agree with the link, but htat doesn't mean, to me, that it's right, or even true. It's still an opinion.

I'd like real reasons why DRM is bad, and specifically, this "hardware DRM" in the Core Generation 2 cpus.


----------



## qubit (Jan 5, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Artists also like DRM. I know I do.



Why? If you explained why in a previous post, I'll be happy for you to point me to it. 



cadaveca said:


> Yes, I read your link, and thank you very much. I guess by your post you are saying that you agree with the link, but htat doesn't mean, to me, that it's right, or even true. It's still an opinion.
> 
> I'd like real reasons why DRM is bad, and specifically, this "hardware DRM" in the Core Generation 2 cpus.



Ok, at least you looked at it - thanks.  Yes, it might technically be "opinion" but these are compelling arguments about what's wrong with DRM and the only reason whe're stuck with it, is because Big Media is so obscenely wealthy that they totally corrupt governments into "protecting" their interests at the expense of everyone else. It all boils down to protectionism and extortion with a "this is all perfectly legal" veneer/image over it, pure and simple.

And Masnick backs his arguments up by giving lots of examples of how business models can be built around free content. So he's not talking hot air, not by a long shot.

It looks like the cartels don't want this change, is because it removes their licence to print money by reselling the same thing over and over and over and over again. What a rippoff.

I mean, it's just shocking to think that artistic creators will have to keep creating to make a living and can't use one or two works as an early retirement option - just like the rest of us, funnily enough.  Yeah, to keep the dough coming in, keep creating/working, nothing wrong with that.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

qubit said:


> Why? If you explained why in a previous post, I'll be happy for you to point me to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, at least you looked at it - thanks.  Yes, it might technically be "opinion" but these are compelling arguments about what's wrong with DRM and the only reason whe're stuck with it, is because Big Media is so obscenely wealthy that they totally corrupt governments into "protecting" their interests at the expense of everyone else. *It all boils down to protectionism and extortion with a "this is all perfectly legal" veneer/image over it, pure and simple.*



Protectionism, yes. Extortion..well..I have issues with that word. It's outright inflammatory, and hence it's usage...you know I'm actually a psych major, right?




> And Masnick backs his arguments up by giving lots of examples of how business models can be built around free content. So he's not talking hot air, not by a long shot.



Ok, but consider the source. I mean, I'll provide him with free content, and he can sell it using his business models, meanwhile, I'll also hop on the DRM wagon, and get the media behind me as well...who do you think is going to pull more profit?



> It looks like the cartels don't want this change, is because it removes their licence to print money by reselling the same thing over and over and over and over again. What a rippoff.
> 
> I mean, it's just shocking to think that artistic creators will have to keep creating to make a living and can't use one or two works as an early retirement option - just like the rest of us, funnily enough.  Yeah, to keep the dough coming in, keep creating/working, nothing wrong with that.



I think you underestimate the actual value of creativity. And no, I do not think it should change...likewise, billions upon billions of patents exist that do the exact same thing to other goods, and people are reaping profits from those ideas, with EVERY BLOODY THING THAT'S SOLD. I create a song, I essentially patent it, and when other profit from my patent, I make them pay. DRM helps me know who those people are, and exercise the right to protect my intellectual property.

You'll have to come up with a far better argument than that, for me. 


And jsut so were clear...no more trolling from me in this thread. This post is not a troll. lol.


Mike Masnick is not an artist, so his opinion and business ideas mean little to me. While businessmen like him may ahve good business skills, the actual artistic side, and what's really involved in maintaining a decent level of creativity, is not something he has any idea about. Although I wouldn't mind having lunch or dinner with him.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 5, 2011)

qubit said:


> Why? If you explained why in a previous post, I'll be happy for you to point me to it.



There have been epic battles on TPU over DRM in past threads. This is just another one. But to make things short I support minor DRM as it keeps simpleminded jackasses from stealing. Does it stop pirating? No. But it does slow it down some. And that little bit it does stop goes to the makers. Believe me making a living as an artist is hard enough. Top that off with little pricks stealing your work then every little bit helps.


----------



## garyinhere (Jan 5, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Believe me making a living as an artist is hard enough. Top that off with little pricks stealing your work then every little bit helps.



What about the numerous artist that actually come out and say steal this?( & there is a lot of them) They want to get their name and product out to the masses with out the politics of the CEO's who get all the money anyways?


----------



## hat (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> Really? Well I apologize, as well, if that post offended you.
> 
> To be honest, I really don't understand why people are so against DRM. Like sure, there are issues that have beeen directly related in the past, but I am of the opinion that fighting it is only going to make it worse.



I thought my position was very easy to understand. DRM doesn't hurt pirates. I know it, you know it, we all know it. There's always a way around it. DRM does hurt legitimate users though. Again, let's ask Mussels how much he's enjoying that 5.1 content coming over his Z-5500s from his TV... or the hundreds of Steam users here who just love when they can't play their games because their internet went out, or because the server decided to be a dick and say "this game is not available at this time". I know you said you personally don't have issues with DRM, real or philosophical, but that doesn't mean that there aren't many, many more people outside your view that don't.



cadaveca said:


> DRM being crackable isn't going to change my opinion that most taking those steps are technically breaking the law. When you install any app, you agree to use the software as it was provided, and cracking DRM is a breach of that agreement. As such, you have no rights to use the software, as the right is provided to you, again, under the agreement that you will not modify it.
> 
> You really have no control, when it's broken all down. You also have very little rights, too.



Exactly, it's all about control. And you know what? I could give a shit less about breaching a "contract" that tells me I don't own what I paid for, that tells me how and when I can use it, what I can use it with, where I can use it, and with who I can use it. If I paid for it, then the artists got their slice of the pie for it, so I feel no remorse for breaching the bullshit contract. Perfectly legitimate in my eyes.




cadaveca said:


> I'd like real reasons why DRM is bad, and specifically, this "hardware DRM" in the Core Generation 2 cpus.


Have you read any of my posts?


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 5, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> What about the numerous artist that actually come out and say steal this?( & there is a lot of them) They want to get their name and product out to the masses with out the politics of the CEO's who get all the money anyways?



Most of them already have a TON of money and are doing for the cool factor. They rest are rep. building which is something you HAVE to do as an artist. Don't you think people like to make money? I know I do. Even if its a lil. Something is better then nothing.


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

hat said:


> I thought my position was very easy to understand. DRM doesn't hurt pirates. I know it, you know it, we all know it. There's always a way around it. DRM does hurt legitimate users though. Again, let's ask Mussels how much he's enjoying that 5.1 content coming over his Z-5500s from his TV... or the hundreds of Steam users here who just love when they can't play their games because their internet went out, or because the server decided to be a dick and say "this game is not available at this time". I know you said you personally don't have issues with DRM, real or philosophical, but that doesn't mean that there aren't many, many more people outside your view that don't.



your correlation is not accurate. Mussels is using a pc product connected to livingroom gear...that's called uneducated purchases.


And sorry Mussels, but htat's how I see it. You need a proper amp for your TV, and surround technologies. You need a proper soundcard to push logitech speakers, and a tv does not have this. 

Also, hat, I have never expereinced any of those issues in years, and I consume far more Pc-realted content than anyone else here. there might be one or two others here that have access to as many games as I do...

And I've never had any real issues. Once or twice maybe...in like the 7 years I've been using STEAM? Who here has more titles they've paid for than me? Wizz, on his press account?


So yeah, I ignored your points. NO offense, but really, I need better arguments than that.


And sure, DRM as it stands now doesn't hurt pirates...but it defiantely slows them down. And becuase it doesn't stop them, it will only get worse...until either pirates have no way to circumvent the measures, or what they do sends them to jail. So they can do it all they like...each and every time they circumvent it, I cheer...becuase they next version of DRM will be harder. That's progress towards true protection for my intellectual property in a digital world.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> your correlation is not accurate. Mussels is using a pc product connected to licingroom gear...that's called uneducated purchases.
> 
> 
> And sorry Mussels, but htat's how I see it. You needa  prorper amp for your TV, and surround technologies.
> ...



I agree. Steam with their fair prices and promotion of indi products makes me feel like they "get it". They are hands down the best DRM in the world IMO.


----------



## garyinhere (Jan 5, 2011)

What does DRM stand for?


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

An that's why i have so many titles on STEAM. I know they give thier artists fantastic deals for hte ocntent they sell for the artist, and in such a way that I buy titles jsut to give the game maker and steam some cash...not becuase i want it.

And more often than not, STEAM-related problems aren't due to STEAM itself.



garyinhere said:


> What does DRM stand for?



Digital Rights Management.



> Digital rights management, or DRM, is a general term used to describe any type of technology that aims to stop, or at least ease, the practice of piracy.



http://computer.howstuffworks.com/drm.htm


----------



## garyinhere (Jan 5, 2011)

So do you think the OPP would be down for the DRM in the LBC?


----------



## hat (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> your correlation is not accurate. Mussels is using a pc product connected to livingroom gear...that's called uneducated purchases.
> 
> 
> And sorry Mussels, but htat's how I see it. You need a proper amp for your TV, and surround technologies. You need a proper soundcard to push logitech speakers, and a tv does not have this.
> ...



I edited my post before you posted this, you might want to take another look at it. As for Mussels, the z-5500 is every bit as good as a "proper" amp. It's set up the same way any other home theater sound system is set up.

It seems to me that you've not _really_ read my posts. I've repeated myself about Mussels' z-5500s 2 or 3 times beforehand and just now got a response from you about it. You keep saying you don't understand why DRM is bad, why people have problems with it, what functionaltiy issues it imposes etc... but then you openly admit that you've been skipping over my posts, so what's the point of replying, repeating myself again and again?


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> So do you think the OPP would be down for the DRM in the LBC?



The OPP is Ontario Provincial Police. LBC is the Lehman Brothers. So yes, the OPP is down with DRM in LBC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehman_Brothers




hat said:


> I edited my post before you posted this, you might want to take another look at it. As for Mussels, the z-5500 is every bit as good as a "proper" amp. It's set up the same way any other home theater sound system is set up.



NO, it's not. NOT AT ALL. I really can spend the same amount on cheap HT gear, and get a better product, and more features...many inputs/outputs, various audio codec, etc...


----------



## hat (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> NO, it's not. NOT AT ALL. I really can spend the same amount on cheap HT gear, and get a better product, and more features...many inputs/outputs, various audio codec, etc...



Good, as in the quality of the system, what inputs it has etc, I wouldn't know, however, it's not less of a system just because it's geared towards PC use. It supports SPDIF, just like any other reciever, so why shouldn't it work?


----------



## garyinhere (Jan 5, 2011)

hat said:


> Good, as in the quality of the system, what inputs it has etc, I wouldn't know, however, it's not less of a system just because it's geared towards PC use. It supports SPDIF, just like any other reciever, so why shouldn't it work?



Please stay on topic


----------



## hat (Jan 5, 2011)




----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

Dude, your thing with the Z-5500 has NOTHING to do with DRM. It's an issue with hardware functionality, not DRM.


----------



## hat (Jan 5, 2011)

Mussels said:


> DRM has an effect on my life.
> 
> 
> i want to connect my z5500 speakers to the SPDIF output of my TV and get 5.1 sound from my PC/games consoles, but i cant. *DRM requirements of HDCP/HDMI dictate that HDMI sources into a TV only allow 2.0 stereo PCM audio out of SPDIF.
> ...



It is?


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 5, 2011)

Let me put it like this guys.

Artist = prostitute.
Publishers = pimp.
Customer = Johns.
Pirates = Rapist.
DRM = Pimps gun.

The prostitute hits the street to sell themselves but are constantly being raped. A pimp comes along and thinks the prostitute has potential and offers her his service in return for a cut or her profit. The pimp waves his gun in all the Johns faces in hope to scare them into paying. In a lot of cases it works. However the prostitute still gets rapped a lot. Just not as much with the pimp and his gun around.

The moral of this story is pay your hooker. Its the right thing to do.


----------



## hat (Jan 5, 2011)

Comparing publishers to pimps... well, at least that made sense.


----------



## garyinhere (Jan 5, 2011)

hat said:


> Comparing publishers to pimps... well, at least that made sense.



How do you expect a serious conversation with others if you are determined to use sarcasm against them?


----------



## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

hat said:


> It is?



Yes, the hardware in the TV is NOT set to provide surround content. the speakers should be connected to either an amp, or a cable box, etc...not the TV.

DRM may be the motivation behind that functionality, but that doesn't mean that his decision to use them in that way was the proper solution.

The only reason there is even a digital out on the TV is THANKS to DRM.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 5, 2011)

hat said:


> Comparing publishers to pimps... well, at least that made sense.



The whole post made sense. If you don't get it then your just a rapist.


----------



## hat (Jan 5, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> How do you expect a serious conversation with others if you are determined to use sarcasm against them?



Oh no, I was completely serious there. No sarcasm at all. None here either...



cadaveca said:


> Yes, the hardware in the TV is NOT set to provide surround content. the speakers should be connected to either an amp, or a cable box, etc...not the TV.
> 
> *DRM may be the motivation behind that functionality, but that doesn't mean that his decision to use them in that way was the proper solution.*
> 
> The only reason there is even a digital out on the TV is THANKS to DRM.



Well, at least now you're seeing that part of it. However, I fail to understand how DRM encourages development...



TheMailMan78 said:


> The whole post made sense. If you don't get it then your just a rapist.



See my reply to gary.


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## CarneASADA (Jan 5, 2011)

don't forget this:  REMOTE KILL SWITCH 

"From a security standpoint, the biggest addition Sandy Bridge will deliver will be the ability to remotely kill and restore a lost or stolen PC via 3G, Marek said. Previously, that capability, which delivers a "poison pill" that can remotely wipe the PC's hard drive, was only available via Ethernet or Wi-Fi. Now, if that laptop has a 3G connection, the PC can be protected, Marek said."

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369110,00.asp


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## cadaveca (Jan 5, 2011)

hat said:


> Well, at least now you're seeing that part of it. However, I fail to understand how DRM encourages development...



Maybe that's why your logic failed here.

There's no reason for a TV to have a digital output, except because the signal is already there. TV's are not surround-sound devices, there are stereo devices, so to expect surround to come out of a stereo device is foolish, IMHO.

It's no different to me than expecting a stereo amp to all of a sudden grow extra speaker jacks, and support surround.


HDMI carries both the surround signal, and seperately, the stereo signal, as well as video. The DRM chain has surround audio exit at the second last component, and the last component only gets stereo audio..because, as I said, TV's are not stereo devices, so there no reason for them to process a surround signal.

The fact that the stereo signal is there in digital format is thanks to DRM and is the only reason the connector is there.


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## THRiLL KiLL (Jan 5, 2011)

CarneASADA said:


> don't forget this:  REMOTE KILL SWITCH
> 
> "From a security standpoint, the biggest addition Sandy Bridge will deliver will be the ability to remotely kill and restore a lost or stolen PC via 3G, Marek said. Previously, that capability, which delivers a "poison pill" that can remotely wipe the PC's hard drive, was only available via Ethernet or Wi-Fi. Now, if that laptop has a 3G connection, the PC can be protected, Marek said."
> 
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369110,00.asp



i wouldn't be as worried about the built in drm as i would be this. if you can disable it, that would be good. If you cant. well..

screw dds attacks, hackers will just send the kill switch to your server.


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## DannibusX (Jan 5, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> The OPP is Ontario Provincial Police. LBC is the Lehman Brothers. So yes, the OPP is down with DRM in LBC.



O is for other, P is for people scratchin' temple.  The last P, well that's not that simple.  It's sorta like another way to call a cat a kitten.  It's five little letters that I'm missin' here.


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## cdawall (Jan 5, 2011)

i really think this thread needs to get closed its just turned into a pissing match


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## sneekypeet (Jan 5, 2011)

cdawall said:


> i really think this thread needs to get closed its just turned into a pissing match



I really think you should leave that to the moderation, and keep your inflammatory remarks to yourself.


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## hat (Jan 5, 2011)

I somewhat agree with cdawall. It's remarkable that this thread reached 11 pages without turning into a warzone. There's been some harsh comments tossed around, but nothing that we can't handle on our own without getting super pissed. The argument's pretty much boiled down to the point where everyone's expressed their views and now it's just going back and forth saying the same things, but that doesn't really mean it's closing time.


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## sneekypeet (Jan 5, 2011)

hat said:


> I somewhat agree with cdawall. It's remarkable that this thread reached 11 pages without turning into a warzone. There's been some harsh comments tossed around, but nothing that we can't handle on our own without getting super pissed. The argument's pretty much boiled down to the point where everyone's expressed their views and now it's just going back and forth saying the same things, but that doesn't really mean it's closing time.



So what is productive or on topic from your post?


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## hat (Jan 5, 2011)

I admit that post contributed next to nothing to the thread's topic; I was just making a comment. TPU's a fairly 'open' place compared to other tech forums, where we can do things like make public comments about moderation and such... however, this will be the last post I make about this issue to prevent further crapping of the thread.


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## cdawall (Jan 5, 2011)

sneekypeet said:


> I really think you should leave that to the moderation, and keep your inflammatory remarks to yourself.



i really don't think stating a basic fact is being inflammatory there are 11 pages of people either saying DRM is ok or people saying DRM is bad just like all of the intel vs AMD threads or nvidia vs AMD threads.


			
				DanTheBanjoman said:
			
		

> Posting in a thread
> 
> *Be polite, if you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all.* This includes trolling, continuous use of bad language (ie. cussing), flaming and insulting others.
> Short and pointless posts like "yeah", "me too" or "haha" can be made on the rest of the internet, not here. Post count doesn't increase your e-penis.
> ...


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## streetfighter 2 (Jan 5, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Let me put it like this guys.
> 
> Artist = prostitute.
> Publishers = pimp.
> ...


This analogy breaks down though because I need to call up the hooker every time I want some action from her.  I can only ever purchase the 5 or 6 seconds it takes me to do my best impression of an epileptic.  It would only make sense if the hooker could infinitely sell herself infinitely often, but I only needed to pay once unless I was playing WoW.  Oddly enough in the case of a pirate, the hooker is so busy getting poked infinitely many times (infinitely often) that she may or may not even realize (or care) that half the people spelunking aren't paying customers (and I'll be damned if the pimp can keep up with that much crap)...

I feel dirty now...

EDIT:  It also suddenly seems apparent to me that one could, presumably, go through the entire prostitute-client exchange without ever seeing the pimp's gun.  In the case of DRM, the pimp is waving his gun in your face saying, "Just try it mother ***** and I'll rip your ***** **** you ***** ****** ***."   So in reality, the DRM pimp is really an ultra hyperactive paranoid pimp (perhaps not undeservedly).


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## erocker (Jan 6, 2011)

The drama Llama's are being sent out to pasture.

Have a nice drama-free day.

Your pal,

erocker


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