# "World CEP2 Challenge" planning thread



## Peter1986C (Aug 13, 2013)

Let me first of all quote two posts from the TPU WCG team thread:



Chevalr1c said:


> There has been a thought in my mind, but I don't think it is a good idea, I suppose. The proposal would be to have a CEP2 challenge from 6-13 oktober (letting the challenge run (more or less) in parallel to the World Solar Challenge 2013), but because of practical reasons we probably won't do that. Not everyone has an internet connection capable of doing (many) CEP2 WUs and I am not able to asess the researchers ability to suppy enough WUs during a spike in crunching activity; especially if we will attempt to seek a wider audience than only those teams already crunching for WCG.
> So _if_ such a challenge will be there, it will be similar to the Mothers' Day Challlenge I suppose, w.o.w. only asking existing WCG members to join.
> 
> So, will we consider a CEP2 challenge to be held in that period and if we do, will we be only asking current WCG teams or will we be asking other BOINC teams to join the challenge as well?





Norton said:


> October is a good month for a challenge- we could do all projects but with a caveat that CEP2 has to be run as well. Would you want to follow the World Solar Challenge 2013? (ex-10/19-10/27).
> 
> You're free to start a planning thread in the WCG section here to discuss like we've done in the past. As usual- count me in



Well, becaue our Assistant Captain Norton already gave his "permission" to start a challenge in october, I gave the details a bit more thought.

I suggest that we will run the challenge from 6 october 2013 @ 0:00 UTC until 14 october 2013 @ 0:00 UTC, more or less in paralel to the World Solar Challenge 2013. I also suggest choosing either "results returned" or "increase in results" as the type of chalenge, selecting the Clean Energy Project - Phase 2 as the challenge project. The two challenge types I suggested will make sure that participating WCG teams will not be "forced" to crunch only CEP2 WUs (because CEP2 can be a nut too tough to crack for some because of heat/power and/or the WU size).


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## Norton (Aug 13, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> Well, becaue our Assistant Captain Norton already gave *his "permission"* to start a challenge in october, I gave the details a bit more thought.



   As stated in the Team thread- count me in! 

  Just to clarify regarding "permission"- It's not like that at all, my apologies if you felt as such... not my intention nor is it my place to do so. Anything that I posted are suggestions or comments only. Planning threads tend to bring all of the ideas and planning forward w/o getting diluted through the Team thread. 

  Any Team member is free to suggest, plan, discuss, or take the lead on participating in any challenge, contest, or project. Final project, whatever it is, will still be subjected to forum rules and our Captain's approval.

  Sound good?


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## Peter1986C (Aug 13, 2013)

eee-yep


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## manofthem (Aug 13, 2013)

Count me in, always enjoy the challenges.  

Oh, and I hope there will be giveaways


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## Norton (Aug 13, 2013)

FYI- here's the list of challenges past, present, future from the WCG website as a reference:

https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.o...lterType=0&filterOpen=-1&pageNum=1&listType=3

My suggestion would be to either:

A- post the challenge on WCG as total points or total runtime for All projects and then require WCG-TPU members to include CEP2 in their project list as an internal Team requirement or a Team prize drawing requirement.

or

B- post the challenge on WCG as a CEP2 challenge (type of challenge TBD)

  Personally I prefer A over B due to the issues that CEP2 has with large download sizes, long runtimes, and elevated system requirement compared to other projects. Example- I can't run CEP2 exclusively on at least two of my rigs due to the download sizes (scavenging a free wifi connection on those rigs to get work uploaded/downloaded on them atm )

My $0.02


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Aug 14, 2013)

Count me in, hell always count me in. LOL


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## manofthem (Aug 14, 2013)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Count me in, hell always count me in. LOL



Thats right!  Don't even ask, just tell us what challenge we are going to do.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Aug 14, 2013)

manofthem said:


> Thats right!  Don't even ask, just tell us what challenge we are going to do.



Yeppers.


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## Nordic (Aug 14, 2013)

I would like to participate but half my crunchers have froze up from a cep2 wu. Only one was overclocked.


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## Peter1986C (Aug 14, 2013)

Norton said:


> FYI- here's the list of challenges past, present, future from the WCG website as a reference:
> 
> https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.o...lterType=0&filterOpen=-1&pageNum=1&listType=3
> 
> ...



I also think that A is the best possible choice, the concerns you give are the very reasons I started discussing things early.


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## Arjai (Aug 14, 2013)

Count me in. My little ASUS Ultrabook can handle them! Although each one runs for about 14 hours. So, it is unlikely I will contend against the mighty cruncher machines on this team, I will participate towards a personal goal.

Whatever that may be. 

I can try to not be last!


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## Peter1986C (Aug 14, 2013)

Fourteen hours is very reasonable, actually.


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## sabre23 (Aug 14, 2013)

I have selected The Clean Energy Project - Phase 2 on my WCG profile last month but still didnt get any WUs of the same. No problem in other 2 project's WUs though.


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## Peter1986C (Aug 14, 2013)

Probably because the buffer settings you chose do not have enough room ("days of extra work" on >1 is recommended)


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## librin.so.1 (Aug 17, 2013)

kekeke
I am definitely in. As for some time now CEP2 is my "bread and butter" 
(running much more CEP2 than all the other projects combined [which is FAAH and SN2S at the moment])


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## [Ion] (Aug 17, 2013)

Certainly count me in--I might as well make use of the unlimited internet connection as well


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## adulaamin (Aug 18, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> Probably because the buffer settings you chose do not have enough room ("days of extra work" on >1 is recommended)



How is that done? I've also been getting FighAIDS@Home and Say No To Schistosoma WUs for quite some time, mostly the previous one. Ever since I've installed BOINC it's been on default settings. 

BTW count me in too!


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## Peter1986C (Aug 18, 2013)

In your device profile settings, scroll the page down to "Workunit Cache Settings" and fill in "0" and for example "1.5" in the first respectively second field you see there.


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## Arjai (Aug 23, 2013)

Device settings...

These two settings are what, mostly, got them started for me.

I also had to allow a bit more space for BOINC to use on my hard drive. I moved it up to 3GB and now they load up every day, or so when they are done.


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## Norton (Sep 4, 2013)

Bumping this thread back up to keep the interest in it going 

I'm going to propose/organize a "warm up" Challenge for September 20-22 in order to get some of the interested TPU membership thinking WCG before this larger challenge gets here. I'll offer up a $25 Paypal gift at the end and work with Manofthem on setting up a game giveaway to kick it off.

Stay tuned- I'll post something up tonight 

**EDIT**
Thread started here:
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190156


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## [Ion] (Sep 4, 2013)

Awesome!  I'm happy to throw in prizes as well--Norton, I'll drop you a PM!


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## manofthem (Sep 4, 2013)

Norton said:


> Bumping this thread back up to keep the interest in it going
> 
> I'm going to propose/organize a "warm up" Challenge for September 20-22 in order to get some of the interested TPU membership thinking WCG before this larger challenge gets here. I'll offer up a $25 Paypal gift at the end and work with Manofthem on setting up a game giveaway to kick it off.
> 
> Stay tuned- I'll post something up tonight



Sounds great Norton! I just got your PM and will be responding soon. I'll also check to see if I have anything in the way of prizes too. 

Btw I think its a great idea because I'm currently not running any CEP2 and this would be a great beginning, plus iron out all the kinks before the challenge starts.


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## Peter1986C (Sep 5, 2013)

BTW, shall we rename the "World CEP2 Challenge" "October Challenge"? This because we are likely to not focus on CEP2, making the play on words with "CEP2" and "World Solar Challenge" a bit unsuitable.

*Note:* I got to leave soon but tonight or tomorrow I will still expand this post with info on the way I want to organise things (with your agreement).


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## Norton (Sep 5, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> BTW, shall we rename the "World CEP2 Challenge" "October Challenge"? This because we are likely to not focus on CEP2, making the play on words with "CEP2" and "World Solar Challenge" a bit unsuitable.



IMHO we should leave it at World CEP2 Challenge (or a name you choose/fits in the challenge application system)... only a small change is necessary to run more work units and many have been researching what's needed to improve their CEP2 output (myself included). 

There are only 3 projects currently but we shouldn't penalize those who can't run CEP2 effectively.... hence the "all projects" suggestion

Your call


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## Peter1986C (Sep 6, 2013)

We keep it named the "World CEP2 Challenge", then. We could certainly leave it on "all projects". How can we handle the "eligible for prices" stuff best? A certain amount of CEP2 units? If so, what would be the most reliable way to see stats on that?


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## Norton (Sep 6, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> We keep it named the "World CEP2 Challenge", then. We could certainly leave it on "all projects". How can we handle the "eligible for prices" stuff best? A certain amount of CEP2 units? If so, what would be the most reliable way to see stats on that?



Prize qualification could include:

- Earn "x" amount of points, complete "y" valid CEP2 work units
- Points qualification can be verfied on FreeDC
- CEP2 qualification will require the prize winner to submit a screenshot showing the valid work... which is available on WCG

My thoughts anyway- what do you think?


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## Peter1986C (Sep 6, 2013)

Seems good. BTW, I suppose the prizes will be TPU only? Just asking, 'cause I would like to know.


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## Norton (Sep 6, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> Seems good. BTW, I suppose the prizes will be TPU only? Just asking, 'cause I would like to know.



We usually limit to WCG-TPU Team members... the thoughts of some type of trophy or prize for the Team that wins the challenge has been discussed in the past but we've never done such a thing.


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## Peter1986C (Sep 6, 2013)

Maybe I will do a small encouragement prize in form of a PP donation to a non-TPU member but I still have to consider that.


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## [Ion] (Sep 8, 2013)

Norton said:


> Prize qualification could include:
> 
> - Earn "x" amount of points, complete "y" valid CEP2 work units
> - Points qualification can be verfied on FreeDC
> ...



That seems like a very solid strategy 

What sort of 'x' and 'y' values are you thinking of?  Obviously there's a huge difference in terms out output among different members, so it would have to be tailored to that..


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## Chicken Patty (Sep 8, 2013)

[Ion] said:


> That seems like a very solid strategy
> 
> What sort of 'x' and 'y' values are you thinking of?  Obviously there's a huge difference in terms out output among different members, so it would have to be tailored to that..



I agree with it as well!


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## Norton (Sep 8, 2013)

[Ion] said:


> That seems like a very solid strategy
> 
> What sort of 'x' and 'y' values are you thinking of?  Obviously there's a huge difference in terms out output among different members, so it would have to be tailored to that..



Well the challenge will last about a week so for prize qualification my suggestion would be either:

- 10k points (FreeDC) and 10 completed CEP2 wu's

OR

- 5k points (FreeDC) and 5-7 completed CEP2 wu's

Thoughts?


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## [Ion] (Sep 8, 2013)

Norton said:


> Well the challenge will last about a week so for prize qualification my suggestion would be either:
> 
> - 10k points (FreeDC) and 10 completed CEP2 wu's
> 
> ...



Not entirely sure.  I'd like to make sure that people are actually crunching consistently.  10k points would require a Core 2 Quad or pretty much any gen Core i3 running consistently over the course of the week (my Q6600 does about 1.9k and the i3 2100s do about 1.8k each).  Unfortunately, this would disenfranchise many people just running a C2D (although a 4GHz E8400 running Linux can do 20k in a week without too much difficulty).  I suppose that the number of people running E6400s or similar at this point is probably very slim, so that's probably OK.


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## Peter1986C (Sep 9, 2013)

Shall we settle on 8K points (Free-DC) and a minimum of 8 CEP2 WUs?


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## [Ion] (Sep 9, 2013)

That sounds fair to me


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 9, 2013)

I may have to reconfigure a rig or 2 to make the 8 cep2 quota. I checked and I have 4 valid results, 2 pending and 5 in progress for the last 2 weeks. If this is a trend the prize entrants is going to be a small list. Is that what we are aiming for for this challange, is to have people only crunch CEP2 wu's? I will try a reconfigure on 1 rig and see how it goes. If it doesn't spool up or doesn't go right I may pull myself from the contest. I will still crunch though.


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## Arjai (Sep 9, 2013)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> I may have to reconfigure a rig or 2 to make the 8 cep2 quota. I checked and I have 4 valid results, 2 pending and 5 in progress for the last 2 weeks. If this is a trend the prize entrants is going to be a small list. Is that what we are aiming for for this challange, is to have people only crunch CEP2 wu's? I will try a reconfigure on 1 rig and see how it goes. If it doesn't spool up or doesn't go right I may pull myself from the contest. I will still crunch though.
> 
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/130909/cep2.jpg



Do I detect a voice of dissonance? I was under the impression this was a "CEP2 Challenge."

The key word? 'Challenge.'

As in this is not easy, maybe even not possible.

But, in a somewhat watered down, all-inclusive twitch, it has become a compromise. Why? Again?

Something about prizes. Something about too many uber crunchers? Big deal. What about just doing what you can, maybe learning something about your system and it's limits, and doing a drawing amongst the participants so, Uber crunchers and little laptops are playing the same cards.

I say, all in! Or skip it Skippy! LOL!


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 9, 2013)

I am saying that if I have only had 4 valids in the past 2 weeks with the horsepower I have where will that leave the rest of the team that aren't running but 1 or 2 rigs? I am thinking to pull myself to to maybe open a spot for someone else to have a chance and maybe the requirements can go down. Actually I am going to pull myself out of the hat for the running of prizes. I will just crunch as I have and it will be what it is. 


Arjai I have been on this team long enough for people to know I am not thinking of myself here. I am thinking of the other team members as to why I am pulling myself. If a challange is made that is impossible for 90% of the team to compete in then maybe the rules need to be changed and weighted towards the one with less to work with. Also there are new members and others that just don't feel comfortable with changing options and configs. I mean hell I am running 5 decent rigs and you see what I did in the last 2 weeks. I have to change profiles to have a chance.


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## librin.so.1 (Sep 9, 2013)

Nonsense!
Over the last 7 days, my "7+ year old grandpa" dual-core Athlon 64 X2 running at 2.3GHz alone crunched 5 CEP2 WUs _while still working on FAAH & SN2S *AND* with crunching being stopped ~6 hours each day due to my father using it_.
Thus, if running _only_ CEP2 and running 24/7, most should manage those 8 WUs without too much problem, I believe.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 9, 2013)

Vinska said:


> Nonsense!
> Over the last 7 days, my "7+ year old grandpa" dual-core Athlon 64 X2 running at 2.3GHz alone crunched 5 CEP2 WUs _while still working on FAAH & SN2S *AND* with crunching being stopped ~6 hours each day due to my father using it_.
> Thus, if running _only_ CEP2 and running 24/7, most should manage those 8 WUs without too much problem, I believe.



Well something is going on if with 5 rigs I have only 4 valid cep2 wu's and as I said some people may not be comfortable changing there profiles to only crunch CEP2. I can change all 5 of mine and make the requirements easily. There isn't an issues there. What I am saying is if I didn't do 8 in the past 2 weeks with being a top 5 cruncher on the team, what about the rest of the team. The 8k ppd is good but I think the 8 cep2 wu requirement maybe tough on alot of people.  Just my 2 cents and my sole opinion. What happens is up to the rest of the team, not my decision and since I pulled myself from the running I guess it really doesn't pertain to me. So i'll let you all have at it.


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## librin.so.1 (Sep 9, 2013)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> as I said some people may not be comfortable changing there profiles to only crunch CEP2.



And



ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> The 8k ppd is good but I think the 8 cep2 wu requirement maybe tough on alot of people.



While my 0.02€ would be: Well this IS a CEP2 challenge afterall. So anyone who wishes to participate in a _CEP2 Challenge_ should be ready to crunch all-CEP2.
(And I actually think 8 WUs is a bit too little, even.)


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 9, 2013)

Vinska I do understand your point. I really do. With team challenges in the past we normally haven't made it to where you "had" to alter your crunching style and we have weight it towards new and the lower output team members. If this challenge is different that's cool with me we just need to make it known in the op that you will have to make changes to your crunching profile for it. That way team members will know in advance what they need to do. Also a little tutorial for those that don't know how to customize there crunching profile wouldn't hurt. I just want things to be fair for the whole team, and have more members able to be accepted in the challenge.

Oh example being, when we did the gpu wu challenge, we did not have any requirement on having to complete gpu wu's and we made to total points for the challenge really low to accommodate those that didn't crunch on there gpu's.


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## brandonwh64 (Sep 9, 2013)

I have noticed that time to completion are doubled for any WU/projects I run. right now CEP is doing 1WU per 13Hr's 

What would cause this?


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 9, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> I have noticed that time to completion are doubled for any WU/projects I run. right now CEP is doing 1WU per 13Hr's
> 
> What would cause this?



I think mine are like 13hrs to complete also Brandon. I will check when I get home.


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## brandonwh64 (Sep 9, 2013)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> I think mine are like 13hrs to complete also Brandon. I will check when I get home.



ok cause I have seen places were they are suppose to be around 7 hours


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## Norton (Sep 9, 2013)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> I think mine are like 13hrs to complete also Brandon. I will check when I get home.



My rigs also run in that 12-13hr range per wu.

As far as requirements go.... let's all take a step back and take it down a notch. This is a planning thread so just put your thoughts out there.

On the # of wu's crunched.... I was also getting very few until I upped the # of them that WCG would send me at a time (currently 8) and I do get more than I used to w/o affecting the other projects I'm currently crunching.


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## Peter1986C (Sep 9, 2013)

brandonwh64 said:


> I have noticed that time to completion are doubled for any WU/projects I run. right now CEP is doing 1WU per 13Hr's
> 
> What would cause this?





ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> I think mine are like 13hrs to complete also Brandon. I will check when I get home.



Sometimes they have an estimated time left of a few hours and yet decide they are done (before those 14h). Additionally, 10-15 hours is pretty normal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Given the circumstances, I am starting to think that the challenge would be less messy if we turn this in to a CEP2-only, and do not use the rules as we made them now.

1) It might be an incentive to make sure the rig is really stable (so that the CEP2 WUs actually run well with no time/energy wasted. It is an energy related issue after all ).
2) It avoids the risk of teams getting a high score in the challenge rankings with little or no CEP2 WUs.
3) It avoids some confusion about what projects count for the challenge/prizes, especially to newbies.
4) Focussing on one projectwill give a clearer challenge feel to the matter.
5) It's easier to direct newbie crunchers to an effective challenge strategy.
6) "Results returned" is an easy to handle measurement scale (more importantly, *it avoids confusion between the various stats sites and WCG-unique points counting system)*.

_Important notice on the prizes:_ I think I will add a small PP donation for a lucky draw among the *lower* 50%, excluding TPU of the participating *teams*, as long as they have crunched at least 5*N CEP2 WUs during the challenge (N=the number of members; this makes it adjust for team size well enough I think). I will leave it up to their respective captains to decide how to divide the money within their team (so they will get the money, I hope this is "secure" enough).
The *top* 50%, excluding TPU, will be able to win a small PP donation of mine as well, a slightly bigger one than the aforementioned. Once again, I will leave it up to their respective captains to decide how to divide the money within their team.

Your input please.


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## Arjai (Sep 9, 2013)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> ...Also a little tutorial for those that don't know how to customize there crunching profile wouldn't hurt. I just want things to be fair for the whole team, and have more members able to be accepted in the challenge.



Want to run 100% CEP2 WUs? Here's how...

Some of these new crunchers are killing it with their new stuff.  When I started crunching, it was on a Socket A worth about 500 ppd running 24/7. There were challenges then, I believe. I found and built a little p4 to up my points to maybe get into some challenges, then I acquired a special AMD 64x2.  And I was ready to rock! 

Well, about then I stumbled. I have recovered enough to land this little lappy top and I am gonna burn this sucker to the ground to get in on my first challenge!

I don't want it to be all watered down after working this hard. I want everybody all-in or what is the point? If you don't want prizes, fine. But why quit? This is bigger than than me, I know, which is why we should all jump in feet first! 

Think of how much research can be done by this team solely concentrating on one goal, pumping out as many WU's they can!

Points for Pie, be damned! Let's make some noise and Kill this CEP2 project!!



Rant, over.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 9, 2013)

Arjai you still have that special system?


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## Arjai (Sep 9, 2013)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> Arjai you still have that special system?



The MAD Cruncher, is safe and sound. It is currently sleeping in a friends closet, waiting for me to get back on my feetsies. 

It will shine again, all blue and stuff, soon!


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## Norton (Sep 9, 2013)

Just a quick comment on one item....



> 2) It avoids the risk of teams getting a high score in the challenge rankings with little or no CEP2 WUs



I believe this part is a non-issue as WCG does the math for challenges. You may want to check on this first.

**EDIT**

FYI- these are the results from the CEP2 challenge issued by WCG (i.e. not by a Team) in Feb. 2012
http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/team/challenge/viewTeamChallenge.do?challengeId=4660

I think we'll do OK...


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## Chicken Patty (Sep 9, 2013)

Honestly guys, it is indeed a planning thread so no need to get all rowdy about anything.  One thing I will throw out there is the following.  If all these years, the requirements have been set low and easy, why change it now?  While prizes are great, we also do challenges to recruit new members.  Once they join, they crunch, they post, they get a feel for the "family like" feeling of this forum.  You know what happens after that?  Some go, as expected, but most stay.  After a while a few start to dissappear, I won't lie but a few from years ago are still around and post regularly.  I'm all up for a challenge, I truly am, but setting the requirements high will only discourage members to join.  My two cents would be lower them a bit to where an "average" system can still meet it, but this is not only about me so I want to know what everyone thinks.


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## Peter1986C (Sep 10, 2013)

What kind of system is the MAD cruncher, Arjai?



Norton said:


> Just a quick comment on one item....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is what we get when indeed setting it on a one-project challenge. That is why I was stating we should not put it on "all projects" like we initially wanted. 



Chicken Patty said:


> Honestly guys, it is indeed a planning thread so no need to get all rowdy about anything.  One thing I will throw out there is the following.  If all these years, the requirements have been set low and easy, why change it now?  While prizes are great, we also do challenges to recruit new members.  Once they join, they crunch, they post, they get a feel for the "family like" feeling of this forum.  You know what happens after that?  Some go, as expected, but most stay.  After a while a few start to dissappear, I won't lie but a few from years ago are still around and post regularly. I'm all up for a challenge, I truly am, but setting the requirements high will only discourage members to join.  My two cents would be lower them a bit to where an "average" system can still meet it, but this is not only about me so I want to know what everyone thinks.



Of course you are right. My challenge-wide prizes will be having no minimum WU count, as long as there has been at least 2 WU submitted (instead of the 5*N I propsed before). I do not know what the requirements will be for the TPU-only prizes.


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## Arjai (Sep 10, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> What kind of system is the MAD cruncher, Arjai?



An AMD 64x2, It's in my specs.


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## Peter1986C (Sep 10, 2013)

Okay, so it is a dual core desktop on Linux? Should give nice PPD once you can run it again.


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## Chicken Patty (Sep 11, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> Of course you are right. My challenge-wide prizes will be having no minimum WU count, as long as there has been at least 2 WU submitted (instead of the 5*N I propsed before). I do not know what the requirements will be for the TPU-only prizes.



Well I meant the limit should be low in general for the prizes as well.  People join for the prizes... message wasn't intended to anyone specific, just said it in general.


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## [Ion] (Sep 11, 2013)

Chicken Patty said:


> Honestly guys, it is indeed a planning thread so no need to get all rowdy about anything.  One thing I will throw out there is the following.  If all these years, the requirements have been set low and easy, why change it now?  While prizes are great, we also do challenges to recruit new members.  Once they join, they crunch, they post, they get a feel for the "family like" feeling of this forum.  You know what happens after that?  Some go, as expected, but most stay.  After a while a few start to dissappear, I won't lie but a few from years ago are still around and post regularly.  I'm all up for a challenge, I truly am, but setting the requirements high will only discourage members to join.  My two cents would be lower them a bit to where an "average" system can still meet it, but this is not only about me so I want to know what everyone thinks.



With you 100% here!  We can't make anyone do anything or stick around, but if we're reasonable, realistic, and friendly, I think we can attract a few new crunchers to the team.  And while some of us can do exclusively CEP2 without too much difficulty, others don't have the bandwidth to do so.  IMO fairness trumps principle here


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## Norton (Sep 11, 2013)

[Ion] said:


> With you 100% here!  We can't make anyone do anything or stick around, but if we're reasonable, realistic, and friendly, I think we can attract a few new crunchers to the team.  And while some of us can do exclusively CEP2 without too much difficulty, others don't have the bandwidth to do so.  IMO fairness trumps principle here



It will all come together- challenge wise we generally request about 500 ppd, which is what a Phenom II X2 can output if running 12 hrs/day. We should stick with this ppd figure as well as running all projects and crunching for the duration of the challenge. This will qualify anyone for a prize drawing of donations provided by crunchers for crunchers. We have also been discussing another rig donation in PM's so expect this to be announced as well. 

As far as CEP2 goes....
I'm pulling about 20-25 CEP2 wu's per day from my fleet- for my CEP2 contribution, count me in for shooting a 50-100% increase.


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## [Ion] (Sep 11, 2013)

Awesome!  Let me know if there's anything I can contribute--I may not have time to pick up much by the time that the competition starts (seeing as it's only a bit over a week) but I can try to throw in something


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## Norton (Sep 11, 2013)

[Ion] said:


> Awesome!  Let me know if there's anything I can contribute--I may not have time to pick up much by the time that the competition starts (seeing as it's only a bit over a week) but I can try to throw in something



We're discussing the rig build for this challenge (October's)... we'll keep the prize pool small for the 9/20-9/22 Warm Up


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## [Ion] (Sep 11, 2013)

Norton said:


> We're discussing the rig build for this challenge (October's)... we'll keep the prize pool small for the 9/20-9/22 Warm Up



Ah, that makes much more sense.  Now I remember the PMs you were mentioning.  By Oct I should certainly be able to swing something in


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## manofthem (Sep 11, 2013)

[Ion] said:


> We can't make anyone do anything or stick around, but if we're reasonable, realistic, and friendly, I think we can attract a few new crunchers to the team.



Back in the day when I joined, if it hadn't been for the awesomeness of the team members, it never would have had the same for me.  I think the team has a great vibe, and that should encourage others! 

Oh yeah, it would be fantastic to gain a few new members to the team, get some fresh hardware crunching it out.


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## Chicken Patty (Sep 11, 2013)

Totally agree, its always worked.  . I don't think making people push their systems so hard or change things around too much will attract many.


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## Peter1986C (Sep 13, 2013)

But will we actually focus on the CEP then? If fairness is an 'issue', wouldn't an "All projects" challenge make more sense? I am willing to say yes to that, but we mst make sure there is clarity on this _before_ we can do any further planning.


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## Norton (Sep 13, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> But will we actually focus on the CEP then? If fairness is an 'issue', wouldn't an "All projects" challenge make more sense? I am willing to say yes to that, but we mst make sure there is clarity on this _before_ we can do any further planning.



Here's my take*:
* combining my thoughts and comments I've seen posted

   We can focus on CEP2 and open the challenge at WCG as a CEP2 challenge (points, runtime, increase in %, etc TBD..). However, Team members, existing, new, or returning, should be given the option to either run All Projects or CEP2 exclusively. We have seen several discussions going on that address various means of handling more CEP2 work as well as some of the difficulties in doing so. All of these tips (or links) can be included in the OP for the challenge thread when launched. Internal/Team prizes and etc can be addressed per previous discussion with lighter qualification requirements for such prizes. 

   Going this route, with the discussed option, would be the best of both imho. As I mentioned earlier, I will step up my output of CEP2 work, and if some of our other members opt to do the same, we will make a good showing 

   New/returning members contributing in either format will also enhance our challenge and our WCG performance.

Thoughts?


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## Peter1986C (Sep 14, 2013)

Norton said:


> We can focus on CEP2 and open the challenge at WCG as a CEP2 challenge (points, runtime, increase in %, etc TBD..). However, Team members, existing, new, or returning, should be given the option to either run All Projects or CEP2 exclusively.



Sounds good.  I presume that those running all projects will simply not be focussing on CEP2, but crunch as usual while still contributing that way to the teams (overall) performance (while the challenge will lean on the CEP2 WUs for the the team score)?


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 14, 2013)

I am going to run all projects as I have been.


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## Bow (Sep 14, 2013)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> I am going to run all projects as I have been.



That's what I am doing.  Not changing a thing


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## Peter1986C (Sep 14, 2013)

I will most likely focus on the CEP2 project, putting everything else on hold except GPU work for Folding@Home.


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## Norton (Sep 14, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> Sounds good.  I presume that those running all projects will simply not be focussing on CEP2, but crunch as usual while still contributing that way to the teams (overall) performance (while the challenge will lean on the CEP2 WUs for the the team score)?



Correct- Team output will be the total of everything crunched while the Challenge score will be just the CEP2 work. 

What are the thoughts on the type of challenge? Points is the usual but there are options:
- results returned
- runtime
- points
- % increase in ouput (iirc you can use any of the above for this)
* not sure if I missed a type?


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## TRWOV (Sep 14, 2013)

I'll let the 8350s and 3770k handle the CEP2 WUs, everything else will stay on its regular All Projects regimen. We don't even know if CEP2 can handle having that many WUs deployed at a time.


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## Peter1986C (Sep 14, 2013)

Norton said:


> Correct- Team output will be the total of everything crunched while the Challenge score will be just the CEP2 work.
> 
> What are the thoughts on the type of challenge? Points is the usual but there are options:
> - results returned
> ...



Those are all the challenge types there are. Points is so common it has not my preference; and the output increase types are fairer - I think - for small teams. So I suppose we should pick the latter, maybe the increase in results returned?


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## Chicken Patty (Sep 15, 2013)

I will be running all projects as well.


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## Norton (Sep 15, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> Those are all the challenge types there are. Points is so common it has not my preference; and the output increase types are fairer - I think - for small teams. So I suppose we should pick the latter, *maybe the increase in results returned*?



   I do understand your concern- However, points is the most common as it's the easiest one to see good progress on (i.e. a larger # than results returned).

   My issue on increase in results returned (%) is that it is easier for Teams to sandbag (i.e. cut down output a bit or holding back finished work before the challenge, then turn it up to get a better percentage/better challenge ranking)... which isn't fair to the science work as the increase in work done may be smaller than the "actual" increase in work done. Also, it penalizes Teams and/or crunchers who are turning up their as early as they can ahead of the challenge to ensure that they are ready.

  Based on this, my recommendation is either points (as usual) or straight runtime (for a change of pace)- they both represent the same work so there is no difference other than how it's counted on the challenge page.

What do you think?


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## Peter1986C (Sep 16, 2013)

I forgot about the sandbagging. Good point.  Let's say runtime then, if you agree.


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## Norton (Sep 16, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> I forgot about the sandbagging. Good point.  Let's say runtime then, if you agree.



I have no issue with it.... WCG will do all of the math for it anyway.

  If there are no significant objections, the next step would be to put it all together to present to our captain for his review/approval prior to launching the official thread here and opening up the challenge at WCG.


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## [Ion] (Sep 16, 2013)

Sounds good to me!  Runtime is certainly an interesting alternative to how things are usually scored


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## Peter1986C (Sep 16, 2013)

Norton said:


> I have no issue with it.... WCG will do all of the math for it anyway.
> 
> If there are no significant objections, the next step would be to put it all together to present to our captain for his review/approval prior to launching the official thread here and opening up the challenge at WCG.



I think I will add a small PP donation for a lucky draw among the *lower 50% of the participating teams*, as long as they have a *runtime of at least 1 day* during the challenge. I will leave it up to their respective captains to decide how to divide the money within their team.
The *top 50%* will be able to win a small PP donation of mine as well, a slightly bigger one than the aforementioned. Once again, I will leave it up to their respective captains to decide how to divide the money within their team.
I will most likely exclude TPU from this draw, because we are having a prize draw of our own.

I think I will add *11 euro* and *7 euro* to the prize pot for the top ranks resp. lower ranks draws. If anyone else want to contribute to the "team prizes", let us know.


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## Norton (Sep 16, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> I think I will add a small PP donation for a lucky draw among the *lower 50% of the participating teams*, as long as they have a *runtime of at least 1 day* during the challenge. I will leave it up to their respective captains to decide how to divide the money within their team.
> The *top 50%* will be able to win a small PP donation of mine as well, a slightly bigger one than the aforementioned. Once again, I will leave it up to their respective captains to decide how to divide the money within their team.
> I will most likely exclude TPU from this draw, because we are having a prize draw of our own.
> 
> I think I will add *11 euro* and *7 euro* to the prize pot for the top ranks resp. lower ranks draws. If anyone else want to contribute to the "team prizes", let us know.



  If you're going to offer any prizes outside of TPU it would probably be best if you took the offer out to the WCG forum where the competing Teams will have a chance to see it, respond, etc... Chicken Patty usually opens a thread there upon setting the challenge at WCG and posts the links back here. That thread would be the best place to make the offer.

Now regarding our TPU prize drawings/setup for this challenge.....

Do you want to take the lead on this and set it up or do you want to defer to a volunteer?


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## Peter1986C (Sep 16, 2013)

I was "making the offer" here to ake sure you and te captain could see it and copy-paste it into his announcement on the WCG site.

I could take the lead in the prize area, if you think this has any benefit. Who did normally do this? I would like to discuss things a bit with that person in order to make sure everything will go smoothly.  Just sent me a PM.


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 17, 2013)

There is a thread already on WCG forums for the challenge. I also bumped it yesterday.


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## Norton (Sep 17, 2013)

ThE_MaD_ShOt said:


> There is a thread already on WCG forums for the challenge. I also bumped it yesterday.



That's for this weekend's Warm Up Challenge (the little one). There will be a fresh one for the CEP2 challenge once the planning is done and CP opens it up @ WCG


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Sep 17, 2013)

Norton said:


> That's for this weekend's Warm Up Challenge (the little one). There will be a fresh one for the CEP2 challenge once the planning is done and CP opens it up @ WCG



I musta misread, well theres a link to the warm up challenge over at WCG


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## Chicken Patty (Sep 17, 2013)

Let me know when you guys wanna open it over there.


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## Peter1986C (Sep 17, 2013)

A quick question, shall we use the same prize requirements for the TPU prize draws as for the Team prizes? With other words, shall the minimum be 1 day of RT for the TPU draw too?


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## Chicken Patty (Sep 17, 2013)

I say its fine like that.


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## Norton (Sep 17, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> A quick question, shall we use the same prize requirements for the TPU prize draws as for the Team prizes? With other words, shall the minimum be 1 day of RT for the TPU draw too?



Anywhere from 24-48hrs of runtime seems fair to me given the duration of this challenge


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## Norton (Sep 23, 2013)

Now that we have finished up our Warm Up.... time to finish up our planning for this Challenge and give it a proper launch.

*Chevalr1c*:

  You may my full support, for what it's worth, to get this Challenge going and help make it a success. Drop me a PM and/or post here to discuss.

*LET'S LIGHT THIS CANDLE!!! *


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## brandonwh64 (Sep 23, 2013)




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## Peter1986C (Sep 23, 2013)

*Summary*

I suggest that we will run the World CEP2 Challenge from 6 october 2013 @ 0:00 UTC until 14 october 2013 @ 0:00 UTC, more or less in paralel to the World Solar Challenge 2013.

It will be a CEP2 runtime challenge, but team members, existing, new, or returning, should be given the option to either run All Projects or CEP2 exclusively. We have seen several discussions going on that address various means of handling more CEP2 work as well as some of the difficulties in doing so. All of these tips (or links) can be included in the OP for the challenge thread when launched.
New/returning members contributing in either format will also enhance our challenge and our WCG performance.

*Team prizes:*
I think I will add a small PP donation for a lucky draw among the lower 50% of the participating teams, as long as they have a runtime of at least 1 day during the challenge. I will leave it up to their respective captains to decide how to divide the money within their team.
The top 50% will be able to win a small PP donation of mine as well, a slightly bigger one than the aforementioned. Once again, I will leave it up to their respective captains to decide how to divide the money within their team.
I will most likely exclude TPU from this draw, because we are having a prize draw of our own.

I think I will add 11 euro and 7 euro to the prize pot for the top ranks resp. lower ranks draws. If anyone else want to contribute to the "team prizes", let me know. 

*Internal prizes:*
We will use the same prize requirements for the TPU prize draws as for the Team prizes. With other words, the minimum is 1 day of runtime.

The internal prizes will be (?)


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## Norton (Sep 23, 2013)

Looks good! Drop the Cap'n a PM if you're ready for him to open the Challenge @ WCG 

We have the following to seed the Team members prizes for this Challenge:

- *$25 Paypal gift*- provided by Norton
- *Windows 7 Pro key * (x2)- provided by [Ion]
- *Windows 7 Pro key *- provided by Bow
* note- these are prizes from the last Challenge that I opted to hold over until this one

If anyone else would like to contribute an item for a Team drawing please let us know.

Also, if anyone is interested in a cruncher rig build for this Challenge please let me know via PM


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## Peter1986C (Sep 24, 2013)

I am ready to open it up, it's 11 days before the start so it is eally getting time to get things announced and ready to roll.


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## Norton (Sep 24, 2013)

*Short CEP2 work units*

FYI- There are some short CEP2 work units popping up- around 1 hr each on my rigs. I have run a few of them but I have little knowledge of what they are or how long they will be running. 

Keep an eye out for them and if any pop up in your BOINC Manager please post a screenshot of them running 

Would be nice if these become regular for a while- more crunchers will be more likely run them as they could help avoid the large upload and long runtime issues of the original wu's.


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## [Ion] (Sep 24, 2013)

Confirmed--count me in for those keys, and I'll see if I can swing another two more


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## Peter1986C (Sep 30, 2013)

All that want to be eligible for the prizes have to be posting in this thread so that I can put you in the list in the OP.


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