# USB-powered Recording Interface Noise



## robot zombie (Jul 5, 2018)

I have been looking to get a new USB recording interface going with my PC. Unfortunately my old, dedicated power one is not long for this world.

I'm running into an issue... ...noisy USB power. I've said for years that USB is not for audio and this is why I avoid it like the plague.

When I plug in any of these new interfaces, I get what sounds like a robot thinking coming through my JBL LSR305's. I have Tried a Behringer Uphoria, the Focusrite Scarlett Solo 2nd gen, and now I've got a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 2nd gen. All take ONLY USB bus power. The first two had unbalanced RCA outs, which I assumed was a big part of the problem. I tried different isolators... ...DI ground lift. Nothing. Noise is still unusably loud. They're just carrying the interference right up to the monitors. But doing that tells me it starts inside the computer, not between the box and the speakers. It must be there BEFORE it even reaches the outputs.

The 2i2 I have now has balanced TRS outs, which I am feeding to the balanced XLR connectors on my monitors. The robot noises got a lot quieter by switching to balanced. It's rejecting some of the noise. But it's still the same noise, just lower. And it corresponds to things happening with my computer. When I do certain things such as open a browser or something, it gets louder and more nuanced.

So now I'm sitting here like WTF. Why do none of these budget interfaces have an optional wall wart? If I can't isolate from the USB power I can't use them with my PC without awful noise. It's like some kind of cosmic joke... ...that none of the people making these things considered including a way to plug them into the wall for power instead of relying on the extremely variable element that is the power coming from people's laptops and PC's. Common sense from an audio standpoint says its a terrible idea. We all know how bad mobo audio can be for this exact reason. No isolation. USB data transmission isn't hurt by this, but then it isn't designed for audio so why would anyone expect it to work?

Any ideas? Understand I have tried all of the standard ground loop fixes short of modding ports and cables. I need to find a way to isolate the 2i2 from the USB ground.

I'm considering one of these with the optional power brick at this point. Sucks, but it beats cycling components in the computer to maybe fix the problem :/ I'm also considering a Schiit Wyrd. Seems to do about the same thing. I'm waiting to hear back from them.


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## Jetster (Jul 5, 2018)

Weird, I use the JBL LSR305 and The Scarlett 2i2. I have no issues and using balanced TRS Cables
Maybe coming from your inputs, Guitar? Mic?

Do the headphones make the noise too?


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## robot zombie (Jul 5, 2018)

Jetster said:


> Weird, I use the JBL LSR305 and The Scarlett 2i2. I have no issues and using balanced TRS Cables
> Maybe coming from your inputs, Guitar? Mic?
> 
> Do the headphones make the noise too?


Nope, headphones don't carry the noise.

It's not the speakers either. I just tried with my old M-Audio BX5's. Same problem. The noise actually starts pre-boot... ...as soon as I turn on the computer and the 2i2 starts up, it's there.

And it's not coming from the inputs. First thing I did was record a little guitar through them. It's not there on the recorded tracks! And yet I can't isolate it from my speakers.

And like I said, this happens to me with every bus-powered interface I try to use with this PC. I can only assume one thing there.


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## Jetster (Jul 5, 2018)

Yep try another PC, or house


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## robot zombie (Jul 5, 2018)

Jetster said:


> Yep try another PC


Hehe yeah... ...shoulda mentioned that does fix the problem. The super-budget $400 build in the living room is fine. As is the 8-year-old HP laptop.

Problem is, this is the computer I need to be using to actually be able to run production software and vsti's. Those two can't handle it without being a total PITA. So I have no choice but to find a way to make it work.

Question is... ...is it the mobo, ports themselves, or the PSU... ...the first two I can do nothing about, but the PSU, I can change. I could also run a USB card off of the spare header, though who knows if that'll really change anything. Stuff like that is just... ...how would I even know what to look for to guarantee cleaner USB power?

To me it just seems like there has to be a non-rediculous way. It's clearly a problem with the USB power. My Modi 2 Uber DAC uses USB for data but runs off a dedicated SMPS and has no issues, even though it uses unbalanced RCA outs. Quiet as can be. I figure if I can find a way to take this thing off of the USB power bus, while retaining data, I'll be golden.

The guys over at Schiit seem to think I have a good chance of having the Wyrd work. What it does is reclock the data, omit the power coming from the PC, and instead supply power to the device downstream via its own linear power supply. Basically more consistent data and much cleaner power. 99% sure this is what I need.

I'm think I'm gonna go for it next week. Can't tell you how sick I am of trying to fix this problem. Been fighting it with this PC for over a month and a half.

And unfortunately "buy another interface" means spending a couple hundred bucks more, as none of the good budget interfaces now run on anything but bus power, I guess because they all have to be portable. Been down that road. Such a stupid problem... ...I still just kind of shake my head at the idea that any engineer worth his salt would think it was wise to assume that every USB 2.0 port these things will be plugged into has suitably clean power. But apparently they all do! <_<


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## Jetster (Jul 6, 2018)

Unplug everything you can and try it, mouse keyboard, USB, drives besides C sound card, DVD, printer, fans, front header, USB header, USB hub. Obviously leave the DAC
Then try another PSU

It might be the onboard sound not being shielded correctly


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## jsfitz54 (Jul 6, 2018)

Have you tried "Ferrites" :  https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...d=0ahUKEwja-pj5k4ncAhUuqlkKHUcfCwIQ_B0I8QEwEg


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## robot zombie (Jul 6, 2018)

Jetster said:


> Unplug everything you can and try it, mouse keyboard, USB, drives besides C sound card, DVD, printer, fans, front header, USB header, USB hub. Obviously leave the DAC
> Then try another PSU


I hadn't considered a few of those. But I had no luck there.



> It might be the onboard sound not being shielded correctly


What do you mean? If I'm not using onboard at all, why would it matter?



jsfitz54 said:


> Have you tried "Ferrites" :  https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51n5lh70xEL._SY355_.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.amazon.ca/Ferrite-Core-Cord-Noise-Suppressor/dp/B0002MQGEK&h=355&w=355&tbnid=g_oMvvRQmUbjUM:&q=ferrites&tbnh=186&tbnw=186&usg=__hLN9Qwgs9bQS8LjuTZ-aCZFiQMg=&vet=10ahUKEwja-pj5k4ncAhUuqlkKHUcfCwIQ_B0I8QEwEg..i&docid=oWrONBxORDM2IM&itg=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwja-pj5k4ncAhUuqlkKHUcfCwIQ_B0I8QEwEg


Yeap... and different cables with chokes already fitted on em.

I really wish I had a mic to catch this noise man, it's something else.


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## Jetster (Jul 6, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> What do you mean? If I'm not using onboard at all, why would it matter?


Try disabling the driver on the onboard. Its a long shot but maybe
Its something causing it you just have to narrow it down


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## Solaris17 (Jul 6, 2018)

you said this hum was constant right at boot? If you were in the BIOS do you hear distortion from the speakers? My scarlett solo 2nd gen is USB powered but I do not have any kind of noise either.


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## robot zombie (Jul 6, 2018)

Jetster said:


> Try disabling the driver on the onboard. Its a long shot but maybe
> Its something causing it you just have to narrow it down


No effect.

Oh it's something... ...and unfortunately I think I know what that something is. I think that something is the mobo. :/



Solaris17 said:


> you said this hum was constant right at boot? If you were in the BIOS do you hear distortion from the speakers? My scarlett solo 2nd gen is USB powered but I do not have any kind of noise either.


Yep, it starts at boot. With all 3 of the USB bus interfaces I've tried. And it changes depending on how hard my computer is working. At bios it is fainter. Picks up gradually and adds a few new sounds as the OS does its thing booting up. Load up a couple of applications and it goes crazy, though music easily drowns it out, voices not so much. Get the GPU going with some games and I can hear it prominently over the game audio. It's crazy, man... ...I think my SMD's are trying to reach out to me via the USB... ...they're trying to send out a message across the data lines.

I'm willing to bet most people will never have this issue. I have two PC's here that dont. And no other PC before has. But I bet other people with the same mobo would if they tried it. It's a really sinister compatibility problem.

I've been back and forth with Focusrite about this for a while now. They weren't even surprised. It's not unheard of to them either. They knew exactly what I was talking about and added that some people just cannot get any of their USB-powered interfaces to work with their computers without this same noise - and it has to do with the USB power, they agree that USB power itself is problematic with some machines. All they could say to me was they would pass on what I mentioned about wall warts potentially fixing it. Two separate people told me that it would fix the problem, but they didn't include them because they wanted better portability, and that this was an unfortunate side-effect of that. They told me the only way they could guarantee that this wouldn't happen was with their higher end interfaces, which run off wall warts out of necessity.

I've heard of this kind of stuff happening in the audiophile world with USB powered DACs. It happens regularly enough that I still remember it anyway, which is rare  People tend to frown on USB audio for being noisy and jittery because it really just is. When it works it works (and it usually does,) but when it doesn't, its bad.

USB power isn't always the best in terms of consistency or isolation... ...sometimes the power end picks up interference from other components on the board... ...not as in like your HDD or your optical drive or your PCIe cards... ...actual chips soldered on the board. From what I gathered reading about this wayyy back, it can depend on the layout of the power rails on the board and the positioning of the chips. The more they get put to work, the more interference they toss towards the USB. Dunno how true that actually is...

I dunno, it's very much off of the beaten path and into whooey blewwey world but to me it does make sense. It's not a design consideration. USB isn't supposed to be used for audio. I know it sounds strange, but there's not nothing to it, either. Whatever it is that's causing this with the USB doesn't affect normal operation... ...it's only when you try to stretch it and make it do audio. A printer or a phone don't care about this problem, you'll never know there's any interference. I don't think as far as standard use it's not even considered a problem.

I have always avoided USB audio explicitly for this reason - I never recommend anything that runs on USB bus because I don't want to have them come back to me if this crap happens... and now that I actually have to use it I am unlucky enough to actually have it affect me. Does USB know I don't like it? Do you think it knows?


Sorry for the rant. It's just an issue I'm willing to bet nobody would have to deal with if these devices were designed a little differently. If I can't figure it out by the time I get the Wyrd, I'll be super interested to see how that goes. I really, highly suspect that giving the 2i2 something to munch on other than my mobo's USB power will help. I'm willing to bet that if I spliced the ground of a USB cable, the noise would go away... ...only problem then is that I'd start getting dropouts/disconnects. When I decide which cable to sacrifice, I'll try it.


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## OneMoar (Jul 6, 2018)

likely culprit
ground loop either on the case front panel or motherboard
try a ground loop isolator
old skool but works


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## robot zombie (Jul 6, 2018)

OneMoar said:


> likely culprit
> ground loop either on the case front panel or motherboard
> try a ground loop isolator
> old skool but works


I'm going to test for this with a groundless USB cable. If that fixes it a ground loop isolator will work. I can tell you that using them on the output to the speakers does nothing. Same as using a DI box to lift the ground. I'm almost thinking the hot signal itself is suspect.

The big issue with those isolators is, most of the decently priced ones only support USB 1.1. The 2i2 needs 2.0 to work properly and not drop out. It also needs the full 500ma of power that 2.0 supplies, so most of those OG isolators will be a no go. I have to get a fancy audiophile one.

Like I said, I'll try Schiit's flavor and eat the restocking fee if it doesn't work. If it works, I get linear power as a bonus.


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## OneMoar (Jul 6, 2018)

what you could do is hack up a 5v 2amp power supply and a usb cable 
power the amp from the power supply and only leave the datalines intact

that being said its likely the ground fault is on the datalines anyway
a lot of cheap boards do this


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## robot zombie (Jul 6, 2018)

OneMoar said:


> what you could do is hack up a 5v 2amp power supply and a usb cable
> power the amp from the power supply and only leave the datalines intact


Haha that's clever. I could. I think I have one somewhere. May do it just for fun. I think if it worked though, I'd still want something a little less rigged 



> that being said its likely the ground fault is on the datalines anyway
> a lot of cheap boards do this


Ground fault on the data lines? Really?! I hope not. I'd figure there'd be more problems with that than just this if it were true. I mean its an Asus ROG B350 so I wouldn't be surprised.

Just occured to me... ...I have a DAC that can use USB for input and it doesn't have this problem. It's data-only - no power. Maybe something's just different with it, but I'm thinking if a fault on the data end was causing this the DAC would have the same problem, even though it has dedicated power.


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## OneMoar (Jul 6, 2018)

a audiophile interface usb is not
which is why I rock htomega cards


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## Solaris17 (Jul 6, 2018)

hm I feel your pain. Unfortunetely in this case back in the day anyway my woes were caused by a PSU. However in all of these cases (audio) not just stand alone DACs it usually boils down to three things from what iv seen over time.

-PSU
-MOBO
-Case

Can you budge on atleast testing a combination of these theories? Maybe a diff case and PSU?


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## robot zombie (Jul 6, 2018)

OneMoar said:


> a audiophile interface usb is not


Nope! Totally agree there. My DAC also takes optical and coaxial SPDIF. I use the optical input instead of USB. No dropouts and I swear it sounds better.

It just sucks because I really need this particular type of interface to do what I do... ...recording guitars fed through VST amp sims and FX requires very low latency for real-time monitoring. That's where these types of interfaces differ. They're made to have no delay taking input over to output, sort of like  fake direct monitoring through an oldschool mixer. I need to be able to hear what I'm playing as I play it. Very few, outside of the high-end stuff, use anything but USB and most use bus power. I hate that they do it that way. They advertise themselves as being professional level products but a lot of them boast only consumer RCA outs and run off of USB bus power... ...it's a joke to find a recording interface that gets it right on the budget end. And the worst part is it's not the cost that makes it that way.

Basically because of wanting to market to the lowest common denominator laptop user, I have no choice but to pick one of many USB interfaces that are gimped on the power and output side or toss up more cheese than I should need to. So I really do have no choice but to try and make it work.



Solaris17 said:


> hm I feel your pain. Unfortunetely in this case back in the day anyway my woes were caused by a PSU. However in all of these cases (audio) not just stand alone DACs it usually boils down to three things from what iv seen over time.
> 
> -PSU
> -MOBO
> ...


I can test all three. I have two builds running right now. I can try and swap the cases and PSU's. That'll have to wait till Saturday, but I will try it.


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## Solaris17 (Jul 6, 2018)

I really think it will help. and while it is a mega long shot you could try changing our your surge protector if you have one and or simply trying a diff outlet. It would be a shame to jockey so many parts only to find out your outlet (or room) has developed a hot ground.


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## robot zombie (Jul 6, 2018)

Solaris17 said:


> I really think it will help. and while it is a mega long shot you could try changing our your surge protector if you have one and or simply trying a diff outlet. It would be a shame to jockey so many parts only to find out your outlet (or room) has developed a hot ground.


Thank you I will give it a shot. 

Believe it or not that was one of the first things I tried, haha. I brought my computer and speakers into another room. I even tried running the speakers on another room's circuit and vice-versa.


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## robot zombie (Jul 7, 2018)

Came home from a long day of work, glugged down a beer, sat down, got up... ...started taking my computers apart... ...and after a couple of hours/beers of swapping stuff around I've discovered it is indeed the mobo. Which PSU in which case with which mobo doesn't matter. Wherever I take that mobo, the noise follows.

It's an Asus ROG Strix B350-F, for reference.

So from here I suppose I have a couple of options. But I want to confirm the issue, before I go buying anything... ...unless someone can come up with a better way to use this thing with this machine or more I can look into.


Drinking and splicing wires is something I'm not too keen on, but now that I can isolate it to the mobo I'm feeling antsy to see what particularly with the USB is causing this. First guess is ground loop. Low-mid-level Asus board supports this notion. I just hope that by severing the ground I can still keep up enough data transfer to see if the noise is gone. Likely not but I can try. I've done it before with dropouts every few minutes to every 30 seconds. So I may get lucky. Depends on Scarlett's temperament. I have a ton of throwaway USB 2 cables to contribute to the cause. I am a little iffy about taking the ground off of something that takes power from USB, though.

I might try wiring in an SMPS, too, if I can find a suitable 5v one. I think I saw one pretty cheap at the local hardware - one of those switchy multibricks. Probably wise to plug-in something I'm okay with frying before I kill my shiny new 2i2, though. That's more just for fun. If it works I'll have a good laugh.

Tomorrow is another day for hokey stuff like that. I feel like I'm soooo close to solving this, though. Hurrr


EDIT: I wanted to update on my progress today. I tried snipping the ground on a USB cable with limited success. The 2i2 powered up and the noise was gone, but I couldn't keep it up for long enough to run output through and see if it was really even working, or if the noise was just gone because the data was too.

So I need to keep the ground somehow.

I've been reporting everything I was trying to Focusrite and at first they had plenty to say. But ever since it was looking like the mobo they've been quiet.


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## gadgetboss (Jul 10, 2018)

robot zombie said:


> *I'm running into an issue... ...noisy USB power. I've said for years that USB is not for audio and this is why I avoid it like the plague.*




Dude - I have the Behringer and Tascam. I get ZERO noise. 

I don't think it's your interface. Also USB is not good for microphones (Which does produce noise) but it shouldn't happen with your audio interface. You might want to just get another unit or exchange it.


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## robot zombie (Jul 10, 2018)

gadgetboss said:


> Dude - I have the Behringer and Tascam. I get ZERO noise.
> 
> I don't think it's your interface. Also USB is not good for microphones (Which does produce noise) but it shouldn't happen with your audio interface. You might want to just get another unit or exchange it.


That's the thing man! It's not the interface. This is the third different interfaces I've tried. One behringer and two focusrites... ...always the same, distinct noise. It's crazy... ...something on my mobo is causing that interference. And I'm not using it for mics. I don't even own one. It's for guitar, which I've used pretty successfully through these for a long time. When it got so complicated, I'll never know 

It really is just nature of the beast with USB, it seems like every single one I plug in is susceptible to the same noise. And with this computer, it's likely all of them will. It's not exactly the most common problem but it actually does happen. That's why I say USB is not for audio... ...not all USB 2.0 ports are created equal in that department. Sometimes, they're just unusably noisy. They can and do pick up electrical noise from components inside of the machine. And then there's throughput issues, which is is why people complain of dropouts, popping noises, complete disconnects, etc. I had another PC that was like that, where occasionally my USB audio devices would pop and reset themselves because the data was dropping off. And they all had this connection problem where if I happened to move the cable - and I mean, any cable on any port on any audio device - it would drop out.

And again I do agree its not the interface. And yet, every single time I read reviews of USB interfaces, there are inevitably people complaining of "defective" units with these same problems. Digital audio is a specialized application for which USB is simply not designed to begin with. It's by luck that it tends to work okay and gets used the most only because everyone has them. I think of it as a design weakness... ...one I very badly need a workaround for. Simply replacing the unit is not gonna fix it. I've already verified that all 3 work with both my bare-bones rig and even my dying laptop. The USB ports on my one semi-decent rig just hate USB audio.

I'll tell you this... ...I would kill for a decent budget unit with SPDIF... but as far as I can tell, they don't exist.


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## robot zombie (Jul 17, 2018)

Alright... ...Wyrd didn't fix it either. I was smart and got it via amazon prime - after free shipping the cost was the same as buying direct from Schiit, AND I can throw that money right at a new mobo as soon as the box scans out.

Was really hoping that cutting out the power from the USB bus would solve the problem. Since neither using that to provide clean power, nor actually isolating the USB ground has worked, I can only assume the data line is actually being messed with. Like I said before. If it's not the PSU, it can only be one thing...

New mobo it is...

Fuckin USB audio man... ...it's gotten so far beyond ridiculous. Just to have low-latency monitoring w/amp sims. Worst thing ever to happen to me. USB is for freaking printers, mice/keyboards, hard drives, not audio man... ...after this I don't think I can ever recommend a USB audio device to anyone. Anybody ever heard of a mobo that advertises audio-friendly USB? :/

There just has to be a better way. We should've found it by now...


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## Beastie (Jul 17, 2018)

To be fair, if there is an issue with the usb on your motherboard, that isn't the fault of the usb standard itself.

 I've been using a focusrite usb interface for 2 or 3 years without any problem (mine is powered from its own brick from the wall, not from usb though).
 Initially I was a bit sceptical about using usb but it works fine IME.

 Well done for figuring out the source of the problem anyway.

 Any decent mobo should be fine, if the usb isn't faulty.
 The PSU is very important too, but it sounds like you've isolated the mobo as the culprit.
 Quality of power is always going to be critical for audio, if you feed it dirty power it will be hard for it to make clean sounds.


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## robot zombie (Jul 17, 2018)

Beastie said:


> To be fair, if there is an issue with the usb on your motherboard, that isn't the fault of the usb standard itself.
> 
> I've been using a focusrite usb interface for 2 or 3 years without any problem (mine is powered from its own brick from the wall, not from usb though).
> Initially I was a bit sceptical about using usb but it works fine IME.
> ...


See, that's the thing. I don't think the USB actually is faulty. I think it's a design weakness. I think the choice in components/layout will probably make any of this particular model have the same problem. And you know? The ports do function just fine otherwise. I can't fully say they're bad just because one specific type of device doesn't work with them. For your typical range of common USB devices, they work perfectly fine with no power or throughput related issues. I've gathered/borrowed almost every different kind of USB device looking for one that suffers from this. I don't know if its out there. For 99% of people, they'd never know how dirty the ports on this board are. Most applications will not suffer from this. Not even all audio devices suffer from this. So to me, the more commonsense assumption is to blame the device for not working with the computer, not the other way around. Obviously it's not that simple but it's like you have one device that doesn't work with something and a whole pile that do... ...logical thing is to look at that device.

USB's just generally not good for timing or noise sensitive applications. And most of the time it doesn't have to be. Pick any other random USB device and chances are it doesn't care. Why would mobo manufacturers spend the money improving something that they think most people won't benefit from or be willing to pay more for? I think coincidentally many do throw down where it counts for USB audio without even realizing they're preventing problems there. Maybe it's not even cheapness, but a simple unforseen design vulnerability? USB audio's not really a consideration, outside of it being expected to work like any other device that can plug into that port. I don't even know that they could predict it if they wanted to. Sure, USB audio is huge now, but USB isn't really seen as an audio port in the same way that say, SPDIF variants are because truly, it isn't. It often works for that, but not because it was meant to. USB is kinda weak and unreliable for audio. When it works, it works. But when it doesn't, it just won't. Digital audio is a specialized application. USB is a general solution. What would typically be considered acceptable for USB standards doesn't always line up with what audio demands. I think it's too complex to be expected to work like other things do with USB.

That's why I go easy on mobo manufacturers for this. I don't see it as their job to know that USB can be finicky for audio - that's just audio in general. The developers on the audio side of things should know this perfectly well, though. So to me, it is on them to find a way to mitigate the noise vulnerability and still make their devices accessible. Interface manufacturers aren't on this, though. And I've let them know. I mean... I know it's possible. I'm sitting here with a Schiit Modi 2 Uber USB dac that is whisper quiet taking that same crummy USB signal that the Focusrite and Behringer barfed out into my speakers. If it doesn't work on every USB port that is up to the generally accepted quality standards for USB, that's a problem. It's long been known that USB can be noisy and have real-time throughput issues. And that's why most of the devices designed to interface that way don't demand clean, consistent throughput. They're perfectly content to drop packets and deal with noise because to them data is still just data. At the end of the day it'll eventually get constructed 1 to 1. Doesn't work so well with a continuous, but fluctuating data stream that needs to be shot through and built-up accurately in real-time. Minor interference that would normally get discarded becomes a real problem.

I'm not saying it's right to make motherboards with crappy USB ports... ...it's just when the flaws generally do not affect the intended use and only appear when you're going off of the beaten path (such as with audio,) it's hard not to blame the choice to use USB in the first place. It just so happens that what has generally floated by with USB standards for years isn't necessarily good enough for audio. And you can't expect USB to change for audio when there are other options that are better. The audio devices can change, though.

FWIW I don't think USB audio sounds shitty or anything. In my limited use of the 2i2 I actually really like it and can't wait to use it. The headphone out is powerful and sounds good. I've used USB audio for years on other machines with few complaints. Like I said, it's fine when it works. It's just that chance that it just wont work, for reasons you can't know, but are predictable, that makes it hard to defend for me. You know what I mean? There is nothing worse than having to replace a major component that actually works as it was made to, just because it won't work for one specific thing that you'd usually expect it would, even if it's not explicitly meant to. By going with USB as a standard I feel like we're kind of putting an expectation on it that it was never actually meant to handle. And not surprisingly, it doesn't always. Which sucks because when that happens you're pretty much out of options. And because of that I'm now out $120 on a mobo that works as advertised. If I'm lucky Asus will take it back with 7 months on it.

Just my opinion on it. At the end of the day I AM getting a new mobo 


> The PSU is very important too, but it sounds like you've isolated the mobo as the culprit.
> Quality of power is always going to be critical for audio, if you feed it dirty power it will be hard for it to make clean sounds.


Yepyep. My first thought was power. Any time there's noise, it's an issue with either power, isolation, or both. Fortunately I have two completely unique builds to test with or I'd never know.


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## Beastie (Jul 20, 2018)

Maybe I dodged a bullet by paying more for the focusrite with its own PSU brick.
 Though that wasn't on my mind at the time, I just wanted something with a SPDIF out and went for the appropriate spec.

 You're right though, a thumb drive or xbox controller will be much less fussy than audio.

  Fingers crossed and the new mobo will be a goodun.


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## robot zombie (Jul 20, 2018)

Beastie said:


> Maybe I dodged a bullet by paying more for the focusrite with its own PSU brick.
> Though that wasn't on my mind at the time, I just wanted something with a SPDIF out and went for the appropriate spec.
> 
> You're right though, a thumb drive or xbox controller will be much less fussy than audio.


Haha yeah the brick and SPDIF out are the way to go. I don't even need the SPDIF with my modi 2 but I use it anyway.

Any time I've heard of anyone having these issues, its with a USB-powered dac, interface, or headset. It's definitely a thing. Though weirdly enough, I actually tried a Schiit Wyrd, which completely does not connect to the power on the USB hub and instead injects its own linear 5v. And even that didn't seem to work. For what its worth it reduced the noise, just not enough. I'm betting if I put a ground loop isolator after it would've. Just gotta put your dongle in the hub 



> Fingers crossed and the new mobo will be a goodun.


Thanks. I'm hoping so, too. I nabbed a like new Strix X370 for the same money I had tied up in the returned Wyrd. Couldn't pass it up for 120 shipped. Why? Well I guess I just like to gamble. I honestly really liked the Strix B350, so I wanted something like it with maybe a little better quality. Costs me nothing at this point anyway. So help me if this board fucks me I will never buy Asus again.

Nah but if that works, all I have to do is get Asus to help me out on the B350. If I ever get that money back, I'll nab another 8 gigs of ram and call it zen harmony and just have an all around better setup in the end. I meant to have a scarlett solo with unbalanced outs hooked up to this B350, Ryzen 3, 8GB of ram machine. Instead I'll be running a 2i2 on an X370/Ryzen 3 with 16GB of ram. I'm okay with this outcome.


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## nomdeplume (Jul 20, 2018)

Alright, here is what you do.  

Buy an externally powered USB hub.  Buy a medical grade outlet from your local big box hardware store.  

More than likely this $15 outlay will isolate the recording interface from USB noise and help eliminate issues stemming from other powered household items.


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## robot zombie (Jul 20, 2018)

nomdeplume said:


> Alright, here is what you do.
> 
> Buy an externally powered USB hub.  Buy a medical grade outlet from your local big box hardware store.
> 
> More than likely this $15 outlay will isolate the recording interface from USB noise and help eliminate issues stemming from other powered household items.


I only wish it was that easy. I have tried hubs, I tried ground-isolating dongles, and I tried a really fancy $100 hub - this, which works to isolate power like a powered hub might, only with a fancy linear power supply.

Never heard of people using hospital grade receptacles, that's a good idea. May actually do that anyway, heh.

But yeah, after a lot of back and forth before and after isolating it to the motherboard I've decided to just swap in a different board... ...as much as a pain in the ass as that is.


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## Solaris17 (Jul 20, 2018)

awaiting the new board I really want to know how it ends. Though a board is technically the only thing left in my eyes and the power circuitry driving the usb system.


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## robot zombie (Jul 20, 2018)

Hush, you! Don't jinx it. You don't know my luck.

If amazon is on their game, I'll have it in my hands on Saturday. We shall see...


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## nomdeplume (Jul 20, 2018)

Obviously you had a new mb enroute which should fix at least one major leading cause.  In general the order of operation for assuring good sound starts with removing as much junk off the power feeding everything as possible.  You seem to have a decent idea about linear psu and sound quality so I'll expand on this slightly.  The idea to keep in mind is there are myriad problems and you only need to introduce solutions that fix the ones you have.  There is no point in using a powered hub, introduces yet more circuitry and potential signal loss in the audio chain, if it doesn't actively fix anything.

Take a look at your breaker box and figure out what else is on the same circuit with your troublesome computer.  I know this is going to be to hard to swallow for many but LED bulbs/lights dump an amazing amount of noise back into the power lines.  Same for a fridge when the compressor kicks on or an air conditioner.  Unplug something and see if it has a noticeable effect.  If it does try to put it on a different outlet or in another location that isn't directly connected to your computer.

What the medical grade outlet does is help assure the physical wiring makes as good a connection as possible so there is no leakage or unintentional grounding.  Obviously a more expensive outlet will have more sophisticated construction and more expensive parts used.  This doesn't mean it will work better for your situation than a $10 one.  Merely that is purpose built for a specific implementation or power draw cycle/device instead of being more general purpose.  Nerd out enough and rewards are worth the effort.

You can also look at a power conditioner, UPS, if your power service is prone towards instability.  This is about the most I would expect to spend to improve an interface at home unless you are doing some serious work with it.  From there it gets very expensive in time and money to create a bubble for your audio against the outside world.  Especially if you live in an apartment.  The Schiit device, if you read carefully or ask them nicely, is built around the idea you have all of the above in place.  They only promise it has capability to work a set amount.  Meaning if you start from a good place it will make larger improvement that are very satisfying and noticeable.  If it is fighting a polluted atmosphere the qualitative effect will be lessened considerably even though it has the exact same amount of effect.  If you like I may be able to dig up a place or two where Jason said this explicitly.  Effectively I'm comparing exerting the same amount of force on a ball to try rolling it across a smooth even floor or through mud.  

Hope at least some of this helps and you get back to enjoying using your interface.  



*Bonus audio related video I was surprised to find on the Gamers Nexus channel.


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## robot zombie (Jul 22, 2018)

Welp, got my new Asus Strix x370 in. It went okay, aside from minor annoyances routing cables. Left me with a few issues on the Windows 10 end of things... ...windows really just doesn't like that. Swap a mobo and suddenly the darnedest things go haywire. Things not even related.

So tonight I'll be checking/fixing that stuff. Should be no big deal. Done it all before. Just a pain in the ass how much can depend specifically on the mobo. At least it all booted and detected my drives properly. I couldn't believe it.

But here's the kicker. THE NOISE IS STILL THERE. No more beeping and such. Just a constant humming on boot now. And then when booted to windows I hear these little scratchy noises. Pretty faint. A hell of a lot more livable, I guess...

But still. Not. Fixed. Maybe it's a combination of weaknesses with the mobo and power supply. Maybe neither of my PSU's are up for it. Who knows? It's possible something I did before might fix the issue now. I may have just eliminated the mobo as a factor. Safe to say that's not the source, though apparently my older one was more susceptible than this one, seeing that the noise changed pretty noticably. And oh WOW, scratch that it's gotten worse. Loud, pulsing humming.

Here's a fun change... ...the modi 2 now does it when I hook it up via usb, too, though its quieter than the 2i2. Doesn't matter if I have it actively set to usb. It's still there when I set it to optical. Just having the usb connected is enough.

At this point I am so lost and defeated I don't even wanna think about it anymore. I'm not touching it today, nor tomorrow or the next day. I'm working for the next several days and I'm not going to think about it. I've got a million other things to worry about. I've never troubleshooted something so simple for so long. It's really stressing me out so for my health I'm going to take my time. I've given up on designating some time period in my head when this shit is going to work...

I'll make a day out of this on Thursday. I'm all for ideas, here. If anybody has any ideas that require me to get things, let me know what you're thinking now so I can try to get them by then. I'll probably run through everything that I can, again, too. Maybe I've missed something. It's gonna be a long, long afternoon...


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## Solaris17 (Jul 22, 2018)

It must be a combination of things, but seriously at this point id throw in the towel drop the $$ and get one that is powered via outlet.


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## robot zombie (Jul 22, 2018)

Solaris17 said:


> It must be a combination of things, but seriously at this point id throw in the towel drop the $$ and get one that is powered via outlet.


Yeah. That would be nice. But I'm not even convinced that'll solve the problem, now. My Modi 2 takes power from a wall wart and is now giving me the same noise when I hook it up via USB. Basically anything audio hooked up via USB = noise. Even data-only.

What I'd really like is one that does everything over SPDIF. But I think then I'd need a separate SPDIF input and output. I'd have to get a card with both to handle the interface. Mobo only has a single SPDIF output. Which works great for the Modi 2. Honestly I don't even know if its doable.

I feel like I kinda have no choice but to try and solve it. It's now looking like I can't even count on self-powered devices to solve it. Leaves me pretty much screwed no matter what I buy, seeing as how alternatives to USB are nil in the recording interface world. The only thing I can think might work to get around it is to track down a self-powered interface that uses anything but USB for data, and getting a PCIe card to hook it up to.

Honestly, I'm thinking about taking my setup to someone else's house to see if it works there. I dunno there has to be SOMETHING going on with this rig that I've missed. Like I said, I've got a bottom-budget A8-9600, $50 mobo, $20 PSU, $30 case build here that has no issues. If that can work, so should this. Thinking about adding another PSU into the mix... ...the one in this build is nothing special. It's just a 550w EVGA Supernova G3.

*EDIT:* I couldn't leave it be. I took this rig and one of my speakers out to the living room, where the other computer is. And guess what? Noise is finally gone! SO I say okay... and I try plugging everything into a different outlet in the room it goes in. Again, NO NOISE. I'm recording and playing back audio and it's crystal clear. Go back to the original outlet and the noise is back. So it's not the circuit, just that outlet.

I can only conclude two things here. Number one, the original mobo was actually bad, as previously it didn't matter which outlet I plugged the machine into, the noise would be there. Believe me, I tried just about every outlet in the house, and even tried running the speakers on different circuits as I did so  I literally had the two computers side-by-side in the living room, sharing an outlet, and there was still noise on this machine and not that one. Now, they're both quiet.

Number two, cheap outlet. Probably one of those $2 econo decora ones. At this point it is at least 10 years old. For now, I will drop a basic new one in to get me going and then look at maybe getting one of those hospital grade ones later. Looks like this is going to be the final solution. Thank sweet baby jesus.

Fun side-story... ...Asus wants to try and fix the b350. Think I'll send it in and see how it goes. If it works after I get it back, then we'll know if I'm full of shit about USB or not. I don't know what I know at this point but it would be interesting to see if the noise would still be there after I change the outlet and have the board sent out. I'll slap together a breadboard build with it after I get the new outlet wired in. If the noise is still there, I'll send it out and see if its even fixable. Chances are I will receive a different, refurbished board. I assume so anyway. It would be interesting to try another Strix B350.

Thanks to all who contributed and followed along. It's been quite an adventure! Christ man, the things I go through just to be able to plug a guitar into a computer!

Reminds me of an old troubleshooting parable. "When you've already tried everything that _should_ work, look to the things that _shouldn't_ work."


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## Beastie (Jul 22, 2018)

Well done, persistence paid off .

Have a look behind the problematic outlet to see if there are any loose or burnt connections or bare wires, and that the polarity is right.


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## nomdeplume (Jul 22, 2018)

You sound like you could use some relief after all this.  I'd look for a Hubbell or Pass & Seymour commercial or hospital quality outlet.  Make sure you really secure it good inside the wall.  Otherwise you are likely to rip it out the first time try removing a plug.


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## robot zombie (Jul 23, 2018)

Well, I think it's all over now. The bad outlet is gone and so is the noise.

Well... ...mostly. After breadboarding my old B350 with known-good parts, that thing is still noisy on the new outlet. And others! Kind of a relief, honestly. I was beginning to feel like some kind of idiot. Now, to see if the B350 that Asus sends me in place of this one has the same problem... ...I'm really curious to see if this is a bad board or a design flaw.



Beastie said:


> Well done, persistence paid off .
> 
> Have a look behind the problematic outlet to see if there are any loose or burnt connections or bare wires, and that the polarity is right.


Yep, looks all good. It was wired correctly. I'm assuming ground isolation on the old one wasn't so good. Who knows what happened there. Just age. Wiring shows no sign of stress or arcing... ...insulation is still soft and copper still shiny and not work-hardened. It was an easy swap out compared to others I've done.



nomdeplume said:


> You sound like you could use some relief after all this.  I'd look for a Hubbell or Pass & Seymour commercial or hospital quality outlet.  Make sure you really secure it good inside the wall.  Otherwise you are likely to rip it out the first time try removing a plug.


Oh man, you have no idea. So happy to have it all behind me. I have, in a single day, successfully troubleshooted infinitely more complex problems. And yet this simple one had me by the balls for countless weeks. It's always the stuff you think will be simple that winds up throwing you off. I mean, at the end of the day it was fairly simple and just basic logic and repitition would have solved it much faster - all I had to do was try the mobo in my budget build on the bad outlet and I would've known this a couple of weeks ago! Never think you've verified something you've only observed once, I suppose. Always verify what you verify. That's what I get for not taking my time. I thought it would be over so quickly... ...over and over again <_<

Thanks for the tips. I'll definitely look into those. I can tell you the box it'll go in is super stable... ...but it's still just plastic so I'm wary of screws pulling out. At the end of the day I'm comfortable ripping out some drywall and stud-mounting a better box. I'm experienced in doing that to run new circuits. I have access to everything, too. At that point I could run a dedicated line for sensitive stuff. But I'd rather not if I don't have to, you know? 


This brought to my attention some other issues with this place. Looking at the panel, some rooms have dedicated lighting circuits while others don't. And there's really no logic to it. They're scattered across the place randomly. Some rooms have more fixtures, but lighting is tied to the mains, while others with less possible draw overall have lighting. Plenty of spare slots in the box, and amperage headroom enough to spare for heavier circuits. Bizarre.

The big thing that blew my mind... and I'm surprised it hasn't caused problems. The room I'm in shares a circuit with another small bedroom behind it. Single 15-amp breaker. Both have single fan/light fixtures and 5 outlets. Seems like not a lot of headroom. What if I wanted to put in window units? They're small rooms but even two 5000BTU units would pretty much cap both rooms out. And even more puzzlingly, beyond the other room is the porch, where there's a GFCI also tied to the same circuit these rooms are on! Trip that thing and everything in these rooms goes. Kinda blew my mind. Clearly wired in a hurry. Convenience over headroom.


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## nomdeplume (Jul 23, 2018)

Now you're thinking with a clear head.  Actually sounds like you got off light with bad electrical choices made by contractors and/or previous owners.  Seems like you have fairly modern wiring and components.  From experience, things that don't make sense normally make too clear of it once you dig in though.  When you decide to play elec-chicken put on your thinking cap a moment before spending money or fruitless effort in the wrong direction.  

It is amazing how much more comfortable removing these small unnoticed stresses makes just being at home feel.  Even just knowing the cause behind lights and appliances not working as well as they should is mentally calming.  I can promise you music is drastically more enjoyable even without the building threat of audible distractions.  Glad you were able to get all of this sorted out in one go.  Just how much it was wearing on you was pretty obvious.


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## robot zombie (Jul 23, 2018)

nomdeplume said:


> Now you're thinking with a clear head.  Actually sounds like you got off light with bad electrical choices made by contractors and/or previous owners.  Seems like you have fairly modern wiring and components.  From experience, things that don't make sense normally make too clear of it once you dig in though.  When you decide to play elec-chicken put on your thinking cap a moment before spending money or fruitless effort in the wrong direction.


Too true. I really should've suspected. This place is not much over a decade old, but yeah, looking around I can see where shortcuts were taken everywhere. I'm sure when it was new it looked like one of those realtor "model" homes. But really that's all it is. And yes, I do agree that I've gotten off easy. Just a lot of stuff that's ehh... ...it's borderline. I could write a few pages on that, heh. I'll be diving into some of that soon.

And haha, I'm a certified sparky. I come from a family of electricians, carpenters, maintenance guys, etc so it's kind of in my blood to get down and work on stuff from that angle. I've done more serious electrical work for myself and family than I'll ever admit to in a court of law.  Seriously though... I do get my permits, do everything by the books, and can access real professional consultation to get things done well. If all I have to do is change an outlet that's nothing to me lol. Such an easy fix.



> It is amazing how much more comfortable removing these small unnoticed stresses makes just being at home feel.  Even just knowing the cause behind lights and appliances not working as well as they should is mentally calming.


I feel that, man. I haven't been here for very long so I haven't gotten to much yet, but I learned from my first place the virtue of really inspecting everything and sort of picking away at solutions. My first place of my own was a $3000 trailer built in the late 70's. Oh my god the things I was constantly discovering in that trailer. By the time I sold it, I had completely overhauled it... ...I mean the only thing I didn't do was re-frame it and re-roof it. But I think what really made the difference for me were all of the little things I bothered to do right where somebody else just let it go and did bear-minimum crap. All stuff you could easily ignore, you know? And after a while it stars dwindling and that feels really good. It really does make it feel like a home, even if nobody else knows or cares - its _your_ home. It makes you want to be there, like there's a piece of you in it. Not all that different from working on a custom PC build, when you think about it.

Like to have that mindset and the abilities that grow with it, I find, is something that benefits me in all areas of my life. Being able to fix stuff around the house is nothing special. People act like that's just for some people, but not them. I feel like everybody should get a little bit of home repair under their belts. It's beneficial, no matter who you are. As you said, it's satisfaction and peace of mind to add one more thing taken care of right to the list. Not to mention, it's the only way a lot of things get fixed!



> I can promise you music is drastically more enjoyable even without the building threat of audible distractions.  Glad you were able to get all of this sorted out in one go.  Just how much it was wearing on you was pretty obvious.


Oh man, that is such a huge understatement I can't even. To put it into perspective, I have been playing guitar for 15 years now. It's been my favorite thing in the world since I started at age 13, and maybe the only thing to stay the same about me for so long. For these past few years I've been kind of burnt out on recording and writing music... ...I completely overdid it, no balance. Kept playing but never did anything with it. This year I started getting the itch and now it's really the only thing that I want to do. Reckon that's a sign that its time to get to work again. Probably never learn my lesson. My goal is to fully transition into doing that seriously by the end of the year. So yeah, running into crap like this is frankly pretty frustrating and even devastating at times. It definitely wore me down.
It just sucks when all you can do is think about what you _really_ wanna wake up and be doing. All part of the journey though. Just makes it that much more worth it.


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## qozzie (Nov 24, 2018)

@robot zombie hey mate, I just happened to come across your thread while researching the 'advantages' of linear power supplies with entry level DACs as I was debating a this upgrade instead of splashing out on a 'proper' DAC... seems like I'll have to upgrade my Novation DAC.

It just might be that I have something you can try regarding your USB noise problem.

I've spent a L O T of time researching the issue(s) and doing listening tests of different system setups and spending a L O T of money on line isolators, upgraded cables, shielded cables, power conditioners, noise filters on power sockets etcetera. I'm going to be a little verbose about it in case one of the tiny details could help you.

I personally cannot recommend using ferrite magnets to reduce noise on any audio gear unless the RF/EMI noise is so bad that eliminating it is more important than sound quality. I did listening tests with these on multiple devices (DAC, amplifier, power cord) and found that they actually reduced the quality of sound in my setup, and in some bizarre cases, added another weird layer of noise that made things worse.

I found that this tiny device: https://ifi-audio.com/products/idefender3-0/ was just as good at killing my USB ground loop noise issue from my iMac 2010 as my more expensive and cumbersome isolator https://www.juno.co.uk/products/palmer-pro-pli03-dual-channel-line-isolation/647607-01/ -the isolator needed another set of RCA cables, the iDefender doesn't. Both are great products but I wish I had discovered the iDefender earlier.

*The iDefender can also bypass the pre-existing USB power source, either with any normal 5v micro power supply or iFi's own 'low-noise' version which gets good reviews on the web https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipower/. *_*please note: apparently using a battery source is very noisy, and only mains power is suitable. I haven't tried using separate power on the iDefender because I found the culprit for my noise issues (below)._

I ended up discovering after lots of A/B listening with the myriad of combinations possible with my now ridiculously complicated setup, that the main 'cause' of noise in my system was my Allen & Heath mixer. This did at least allow me to remove all the now unnecessary line isolators from my system.

It was somehow picking up noise/acting as an antenna to RF/EMI noise, despite being attached to the power conditioner and/or electrically isolated from the devices in my system as much as possible. Bypassing the mixer solved all my noise issues and surprisingly none of my other gear was picking up or causing (except for the iMac) any RF/EMI noise (as far as I could tell).

It may be that your mobo is doing the same thing as my mixer. It may be the your mobo simply has a faulty ground/chip somewhere.

So yeah _maybe:_
try out the iDefender,
if that doesn't work then try it with a 5v power supply,
and if that doesn't work, try the iSilencer https://ifi-audio.com/products/isilencer3-0/.
Might be easier than a new mobo but of course, its your call.
Hope this proves helpful in some way,
Quoc outta Berlin, Germany

My system:
- iMac 2010 on High Sierra
- iDefender connected via an Audioquest Tower USB cable to an iPurifier
- Novation Audiohub 2x4 DAC (this has Focusrite internals) connected via Focal RCA cables to an Allen Heath Xone 43 mixer
- XLR outputs from the mixer to XLR inputs on the KRK subwoofer
- XLR outputs from the subwoofer to Focal active studio monitors
- all connected to a Furmam power conditioner AND an Ehmann RF/EMI power noise filter

Other notes:
- using mains 5v power on my DAC didn't have any effect on noise (it is possible that my DAC doesn't isolate USB power even with the power brick plugged in, unlike the iDefender)
- while the iPurifier didn't reduce any of the USB noise, it did have a surprising effect on the clarity and definition of the sound in my system
- using triple shielded cables from Focal instead of the Audioquest Tower cables I already had had no effect on noise but I'm a Focal fanboy so I kept them
- using a power conditioner from Furman and trying every connection configuration of connecting the devices in my system didn't reduce any of the noise in my system. It did however improve the bass (cleaner, more defined/sustained) of my KRK subwoofer which was a nice surprise
- using another line isolator on the XLR outputs (both from the mixer, and between the sub and monitors) had no effect
- using a power socket noise filter had no effect in my system, but I'm still glad I have it (for no logical reason at all)


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## Fiorda (Jan 27, 2019)

Hi there, sorry for writing in a pretty old thread but I just came across the same issue and I though I could contribute. Looking at the description and all the facts and tests it looks really similar, except I use a Line 6 pod 2 box which also has got no external power.
Anyway it worked fine for years here and I started to have noise issues as I had to swap the laptop. Old one had a Corei5 and the new one is a Core i3. By digging into the resource monitor and events I found out the noise was more present when there was an increase or a spike in the CPU activity.
I could fix it by increasing the buffer size for USB streaming, this lowers the CPU activity even though it increases the latency. he Line6 equipment has this setting and I bet most of these cheap boxes also have this.
Still checking but I had this noise either in Cubase or using an mp3 player, now it seems to have disappear.
Sorry for any repetition if you discuss it already, some posts are quite long ones, but that worked for me and wanted to share. Good luck!


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## robot zombie (Jan 27, 2019)

Fiorda said:


> Hi there, sorry for writing in a pretty old thread but I just came across the same issue and I though I could contribute. Looking at the description and all the facts and tests it looks really similar, except I use a Line 6 pod 2 box which also has got no external power.
> Anyway it worked fine for years here and I started to have noise issues as I had to swap the laptop. Old one had a Corei5 and the new one is a Core i3. By digging into the resource monitor and events I found out the noise was more present when there was an increase or a spike in the CPU activity.
> I could fix it by increasing the buffer size for USB streaming, this lowers the CPU activity even though it increases the latency. he Line6 equipment has this setting and I bet most of these cheap boxes also have this.
> Still checking but I had this noise either in Cubase or using an mp3 player, now it seems to have disappear.
> Sorry for any repetition if you discuss it already, some posts are quite long ones, but that worked for me and wanted to share. Good luck!


Its cool, maybe some poor soul will happen upon it and it'll help them.

My issue was actually a multitude of things. It took... alot lol. The nature of the noise was persistent as well, as in as soon as I powered on. Additionally, recorded input was squeaky clean. Only output to the speakers came out dirty.

I caught the buffer size trick too, but for dual tracking intricate guitar work the latency was too much. It did bring the noise low enough for adequate monitoring though.

Interesting you mention CPU usage though. I believe VRMs were somehow involved in my case, as undervolting my CPU helped to a degree. Additionally if I took a piece of pipe to my ear and listened around I could actually hear similar noises coming straight from the main VRM heatsink. Maybe inductor whine? I'm not sure. Ultimately I swapped the mobo and the noise was reduced.

Next issue was an evga PSU. That thing whined and clicked subtly enough that i didnt catch it until I removed it from the case, and it carried through to the speakers. To make things worse, I would go on to try two different, brand new Seasonic Focus Golds that would SCREAM the entire time the power was on. The noise coming directly from those was louder than the noise in the speakers! Crazy, right? Seasonic, man!

Okay, so I finally settle on a nice quiet Corsair RMx. Noise is all but gone. The last of it went when I swapped an RX 580 for my evga GTX 1050.

Along the way I also discovered my outlet was bad. Things got better after changing it. I still have another to change.

Basically just being attacked on all sides man. Everything contributed. I wouldnt believe it if I hadnt painstakingly troubleshooted it myself. Insane. I still have the affected components. Ive had the opportunity to do several commission builds this year and I can tell you for sure that if you throw any one of those components in with any other components, even out of a case, you will have noise on the output side of any USB audio peripheral.

It is hard for me to accept that anyone could be that unlucky, but its all Ive got now  At the end of the day I still chalk it up to the shortcomings of USB audio. All USB boxes are bound to be suceptible.


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## OneMoar (Jan 27, 2019)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GB4CQQ3/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
*only does usb 1.2 12MBit/s
works fine with my FiiO E10k make sure to use a good ext power brick if needed

keep in mind that 9600Khz x 24bit x 2ch =  57600 bytes/s so usb 1.2 is plenty you would need to play roughly 40 tracks at once to saturate the buss


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## Mittenz (Mar 1, 2019)

OP whats your motherboard?


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## robot zombie (Mar 2, 2019)

Mittenz said:


> OP whats your motherboard?


The one with the worst problems was a Strix B-350-F. Now I've got the X370 version and that eliminated the mobo as an "intensifier" of the noise. But it's worth mentioning that in my case there were many factors. There was also a bad outlet, PSU, GPU... An Evga GTX 1050, couple of different Evga PSU's. Many, many different things. Changing any of them would change the character of the noise. Replacing pretty much all of them made the noise go away. If I wanted to swap any of those parts in today, the noise would probably come back. And the funny thing is, the components I have in this build are not dead quiet either. My Strix 2060 has slight, but noticeable coil whine when running wide-open. The Corsair rm650x PSU I have in now also has a slight, but steady sort of clicky whine to it. Can't really hear it until you put your ear up, but it's there. And yet I now have zero noise problems with any audio device, USB or otherwise.

It's just one of those things... ...a freak occurrence and a troubleshooter's nightmare. I probably couldn't reproduce it if I tried, save for with one of those components.


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## Mittenz (Mar 3, 2019)

Thank you! I was going to guess B350 or B450, Literally Asus has EMI and MAJOR audio issues with their new motherboards.
Never go Asus today if you care about audio, company lost quality control in their engineering.

Literally, X470 versions (Some not all), alot of b350 and b450 tons of customer complaints about this even on amazon but personally ive tested this myself.
When they shrunk alot of boards down (lost a few inches to the right) they exceeded EMI specifications on the silicon and it bleeds across pathways and gets in resonance is what were hearing.

Asus is a POS company, they dont take responsibility for their engineering flaws.
Im happy you got it fixed like I did, drove me nuts! Did you hear your mouse move when you had headphones on?

The one thing i noticed helped slightly was checking to make sure good motherboard screws were used as their grounded through these. Alot of people use whatever screws thread but doesnt ground to spec sometimes.


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## kalmatar (Mar 28, 2019)

I have ASUS prime X470-Pro and Focusrite Scarlett 2i4.
I had clicks coming from speakers, which were connected with balanced cables.
I put a *powered USB hub* between PC and Focusrite, this ended the hissing and USB derived crackling for me.


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## Mittenz (Mar 29, 2019)

Asus is a brand to avoid on AM4 motherboards. Sad to see more users suffering with this, and even Asus most high end boards have EMI interference from bad board design. Buying all those extras only show one thing, if you use analog audio out, you'll hear it... and if you use a ground loop isolator for audio 3.5mm lines it destroys the sound quality. 

So for anyone building a system, keep in mind Asus has engineering flaws that a simple RMA cant fix.


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## Roma PX Development (Apr 2, 2019)

The USB Audio has always noise and never can be stop or fixing. that's just because the laptop or pc uses impulses power supply (ATX) but it exist better recording systems you can try Roland recorder ot Motu 896 mk3 Hybrid Audio Card. My Setup is Motu with Steinberg Nuendo 8 Software it bring a little bit more loud noise but its not too bad. Motu cards Uses standard XLR Balanced connectors witch means low noise but its always depend of the quality of the product and quality of the software working with this product. when you use USB connection with XLR output connectors there is no other noise than White its just little bit more louder when you increase the volume. So I prefer normal standalone recording systems of Roland because USB AUDIO is not Good quality


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## Ferrum Master (Apr 2, 2019)

USB indeed is over glorified, and suffers from the same issues as every audio interface near a RF source like PC. It is constant fight always and in terms of quality related to stray RFI noises. Motherboard makers are gimping on that. Just look at the boards, they are deserted, they lack any kind of element base to do filtering. Cheap out on max.

I use ADUM USB based USB isolators if the speed is not a concern and fall back to USB 1.1 speeds . You can achieve galvanic isoaltion using optical SPDIF in between the devices also.


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## Roma PX Development (Apr 2, 2019)

Just because Power supply ATX Use - (minus) as Ground and chassis ground but standard power supply uses 0 (zero volts) as ground and chassis that's the biggest problem. the professional Audio systems with USB uses 0 volts with means 0 noise the pc uses -12v as ground and when you connected usb with chassis 0v to pc with chassis -v for all voltages you will have always noise just because -12v is always electricity inside and is not like battery -12v yes when u use battery like laptop on battery you will never have noise but when you connect the charger the noise comes


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## Mittenz (Apr 2, 2019)

I've bought laptops that had noise, ironically it was an Asus back in 2013 ended up with a mac and it was solved. 
With my experience if you have a quality PSU and have USB and 3.5mm noise its bad board design and rarely a one off defect that an rma will fix. 

I've bought dozens of AM4 boards and ive seen this problem alot as they shrunk board sizes down this generation on some models and with it comes EMI bleed into lines we dont want it. 
Just go read dozens and dozens of amazon reviews on the board you have, dig on google if its problematic you'll see customers complaining about it there.


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## Roma PX Development (Apr 2, 2019)

@Mittenz the problem is not of motherboard because every motherboard is the same also 3.5mm have much noise than XLR its power supply problem not motherboard


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## Deleted member 24505 (Apr 10, 2019)

I'm using a topping VX2 connected by usb from a asus b350 board, and the audios is very good. It does have it's own power brick though

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/full...a326-class-d-2x-40w-4-ohm-silver-p-10477.html


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## willapp (Oct 2, 2019)

Thought I would join this thread, having just posted a new topic: https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...noise-on-external-usb-audio-interface.259737/

I think we have the same problem. Based on your solution, I'm going to try hooking my equipment up in another room to see if it's my wall sockets causing the problem (tried two different outlets, but both in the same room so will be on the same ring). Question is, I bought a UPS to try and rule out bad power, so would this suggest that's not the problem?

I don't have a spare mobo or PSU to test and I'm running out of ideas without throwing money randomly at new kit! It's driving me crazy!!!


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## Mittenz (Oct 2, 2019)

"because every motherboard is the same"

100% Wrong.

MSI for example they isolate their audio to specifically "prevent EMI" ive tested this deeply ive bought 15 different am4 motherboards and Asrocks low end, Gigabytes low end and almost every ASUS board upto their most expensive have EMI issues; MSI across the board didnt.

Its 100% shoddy design, and I honestly will never buy another Asus board for them lying to me. Shit company designed product with proper QA. Their amazon page is loaded with similar complaints about EMI and audio issues. Its a massive issue on their AM4 platform. 

Anyway needless to say, no more EMI audio issues.

Could care less about everyone elses basic trouble shooting advice; their wrong. when you test boards with an APU, then a non apu with various GPUs different ram and PSUs on a anti conducting mat, and in cases to prove its the board itself over 20+ hours; i think i have all the proof i need.


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## willapp (Oct 2, 2019)

Mittenz said:


> MSI for example they isolate their audio to specifically "prevent EMI" ive tested this deeply ive bought 15 different am4 motherboards and Asrocks low end, Gigabytes low end and almost every ASUS board upto their most expensive have EMI issues; MSI across the board didnt.



I wish I shared your experience with MSI. I'm having what seems like the same issue as the OP, and I'm running a fairly new MSI Z390 Gaming Plus mobo. If it is noise from the VRMs or other motherboard components then I might have to replace it to try and solve the problem.


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## MartyTheSoundGuy (Apr 22, 2020)

I was just dealing with the same problem. Was driving me crazy. I tried a separate USB 3.0 PCI Card and BAM noise gone....


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## fendermeister (Jul 13, 2020)

MartyTheSoundGuy said:


> I was just dealing with the same problem. Was driving me crazy. I tried a separate USB 3.0 PCI Card and BAM noise gone....


i can't listen to the original noise uploaded, could you send me a link so i can hear the issue? i am also dealing with noise particularily in the 2k-6k range.

when i use amp vst's it just gets even more exaggerated because of the gain stage.

i'm thinking of buying a pci-e card if it would fix my noise issue when using interfaces with amp Vsts (i use bias FX mostly)


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## IgorCherny (Jul 7, 2021)

Guys, I met the same problem with my Behringer 204HD. It’s also powered from USB. My friend gave me one brilliant suggestion: you should remove the middle contact (ground) from your monitor power plug. It works perfect! I don’t have any noise now.


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## DAWMan (Jul 7, 2021)

fendermeister said:


> i can't listen to the original noise uploaded, could you send me a link so i can hear the issue? i am also dealing with noise particularily in the 2k-6k range.
> 
> when i use amp vst's it just gets even more exaggerated because of the gain stage.
> 
> i'm thinking of buying a pci-e card if it would fix my noise issue when using interfaces with amp Vsts (i use bias FX mostly)



PCI-e 1X cards are the way to go with Audio/MIDI interfaces.

Streaming audio works on USB but using VSTi’s, especially if the card is placed for direct to CPU lanes is the way to achieve the lowest latency and noise free performing.

I use a 1U design I made and install the card using a Ribbon extender on 16X, a waste of lanes actually but I don’t need them since it’s a custom made VSTi PC.


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