# Help choose between these B450 boards



## Khonjel (Jul 21, 2019)

ASUS B450 Strix-F vs AsRock B450 Steel Legend vs MSI B450 Tomahawk vs Pro Carbon AC. All priced roughly same. I know in terms of VRM performance the MSIs are better. But I'm not here for that.

1) Which has the best BIOS and does it matter? I heard ASUS has the best BIOS in terms of OCability, features and memory tightening/OC. Is it true? I heard AsRock has problem with memory OC. But I also heard they have a very robust BIOS otherwise. I heard MSI was having issues with their Ryzen 3000 BIOS. Ultimately does it matter in day to day operation vs better VRM in MSI?

2) How can the WiFi antenna in the B450 Pro Carbon AC be used other than just connecting to the WiFi. I'll connect the PC with Ethernet to the router. So what interesting use case does it have?

3) Ultimately which brand has better BIOS for overclocking. I'm moving from a non-OCing intel platform to Ryzen and have no experience OCing. But I'm eager to learn.

I can also add Gigabyte B450 Aorus Pro WiFi in there but I've heard Gigabyte BIOS is the worst.

Truthfully I'm kinda inclined against ASUS and Gigabyte because of their abysmal VRM performance in HardwareUnboxed temp test. And they tested the AsRock K4, not Steel Legend. Only Tech Yes City tested the Steel Legend and it's 90c in OC, although I don't know if he tested it with case fan on top.

TL;DR B450 Strix-F vs Steel Legend vs Tomahawk vs maybe Aorus Pro. VRM performance vs BIOS OCability and features. Any benefit of having WiFi.


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## Mussels (Jul 21, 2019)

1. My Asus B450 has a LOT of BIOS options, more than my Aorus or MSI did. I use almost none of them.
At present, Asus are behind the others with the AGESA updates, which can hamper memory overclocks if updates improve them in the future.

2. Internal wifi also has internal bluetooth. Simply may not be useful for you.

3. You dont overclock ryzen, unless you got a first or second gen budget chip. 100% serious, just let the CPU do its magical auto overclocking, they maxed it out and left no room in the tank for manual OC. This also means you dont need a board with crazy VRMs, except for unreleased 16 core CPU's in the future.
Buy 3200-3600MHz ram, a decent CPU and dont stress. Its an awesome platform for that.

Gigabytes BIOS isnt great, but its not terrible either. They all get the job done, various models have BIOS issues but that doesnt cover the brand as a whole.


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## Space Lynx (Jul 21, 2019)

Mussels said:


> 1. My Asus B450 has a LOT of BIOS options, more than my Aorus or MSI did. I use almost none of them.
> At present, Asus are behind the others with the AGESA updates, which can hamper memory overclocks if updates improve them in the future.
> 
> 2. Internal wifi also has internal bluetooth. Simply may not be useful for you.
> ...




I thought Ryzen 3600 doesn't auto overclock? I thought it had to have an x at end of name for that to happen?

@Khonjel I would get the steel legend, its only $89 over at Amazon, will be in sotck July 25th, which also means it will have updated and latest BIOS too, so should be no issues popping in a new ryzen chip.


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## biffzinker (Jul 21, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> I thought Ryzen 3600 doesn't auto overclock? I thought it had to have an x at end of name for that to happen?









From the 3600 TPU review:
As you can see, Ryzen 5 3600 boosts to a single clock speed of 4.2 GHz all the time, no matter how many cores are active. The Ryzen 5 3600X in comparison boosts slightly higher for low-threaded workloads, but with eight or more threads loaded, it ends up at pretty much the same 4.2 GHz as the Ryzen 5 3600.









						AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Review
					

Ryzen 5 3600 is the most affordable Zen 2 processor in AMD's lineup. At just $200, it offers six cores and twelve threads, yielding a significant advantage in applications against the competition from Intel. Gaming performance is also improved nicely as it is around 10% higher than with previous...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Space Lynx (Jul 21, 2019)

@biffzinker thanks, not sure why that went over my head.


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## silentbogo (Jul 21, 2019)

Khonjel said:


> I can also add Gigabyte B450 Aorus Pro WiFi in there but I've heard Gigabyte BIOS is the worst.


I'm using x470 Aorus Ultra at home, and a couple of days ago installed B450 Aorus M for a client, and so far I have no complaints about BIOS.
All overclocking features are present, voltage control is just as good/weird as on other boards (but works perfectly once you get a hold of it). Plus, most sAM4 boards from Gigabyte are pretty good at memory overclocking. Even my super-old HyperX DDR4-2133 kit went up to 2733MHz, where Z170/270/370 failed to do anything above 2400. I'm still going to upgrade to 3200+, but at least it saved me the immediate expense.
Another thing I like about AORUS boards, is that they come with a decent M.2 heatsink.

BTW, B450 Aorus Pro WiFi is based on the same PCB as my Ultra. Probably the exact same VRM.


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## Space Lynx (Jul 21, 2019)

silentbogo said:


> I'm using x470 Aorus Ultra at home, and a couple of days ago installed B450 Aorus M for a client, and so far I have no complaints about BIOS.
> All overclocking features are present, voltage control is just as good/weird as on other boards (but works perfectly once you get a hold of it). Plus, most sAM4 boards from Gigabyte are pretty good at memory overclocking. Even my super-old HyperX DDR4-2133 kit went up to 2733MHz, where Z170/270/370 failed to do anything above 2400.
> Another thing I like about AORUS boards, is that they come with a decent M.2 heatsink.
> 
> BTW, B450 Aorus Pro WiFi is based on the same PCB as my Ultra. Probably the exact same VRM.



Do you know if there is an estimated timeline when B550 boards will come out?  X570 just seems out of reach, but seems like it might be worth it if it comes down to $150, simply because it does ram so much better.


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## Mussels (Jul 21, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Do you know if there is an estimated timeline when B550 boards will come out?  X570 just seems out of reach, but seems like it might be worth it if it comes down to $150, simply because it does ram so much better.



definitely not any time soon, B450 is the budget board for the time being (and in all honesty, apart from PCI-E 4 you wont notice a difference)


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## Space Lynx (Jul 21, 2019)

Mussels said:


> definitely not any time soon, B450 is the budget board for the time being (and in all honesty, apart from PCI-E 4 you wont notice a difference)



I thought a lot of people struggle with ram timings and clocks pre-x570 though?  So if I were to buy, say the Steel Legend B450, would XMP p[rofile work on a CAS14 3000 g.skill ram set? 2x8gb?  or would i run into issues, x570 seems to have no more issues regarding this.  or is it the ryzen 3600 chip itself that will make the ram timings work easier?


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## IceScreamer (Jul 21, 2019)

Khonjel said:


> ASUS B450 Strix-F vs AsRock B450 Steel Legend vs MSI B450 Tomahawk vs Pro Carbon AC. All priced roughly same. I know in terms of VRM performance the MSIs are better. But I'm not here for that.
> 
> 1) Which has the best BIOS and does it matter? I heard ASUS has the best BIOS in terms of OCability, features and memory tightening/OC. Is it true? I heard AsRock has problem with memory OC. But I also heard they have a very robust BIOS otherwise. I heard MSI was having issues with their Ryzen 3000 BIOS. Ultimately does it matter in day to day operation vs better VRM in MSI?
> 
> ...


At least for the time being, I would avoid MSI's B450 boards with Ryzen 3000 series, they are plagued with issues, being unable to boot half of the time, unsuccessful BIOS flashing and so on. MSI is aware of the issue and is working on a fix. 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/MSI_Gaming/comments/ce3ift


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## silentbogo (Jul 21, 2019)

lynx29 said:


> Do you know if there is an estimated timeline when B550 boards will come out? X570 just seems out of reach, but seems like it might be worth it if it comes down to $150, simply because it does ram so much better.


No one knows for sure... most likely next year. Meanwhile B450 or even X470 is the best budget option. 
Don't sweat too much about RAM. Most 400-series boards do just fine with memory, and if you are planning on getting a DDR4-3000 kit - it'll work just fine. Plus XMP profiles always have lax timings, so there's room for improvement.


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## Mussels (Jul 21, 2019)

i ran DDR3200 just fine with hynix ram on x370 with a r7 1700, the issues with RAM are pretty rare with modern BIOS.


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## X800 (Jul 21, 2019)

I did buy the Asus Tuf B450-Pro Gaming motherboard and Ryzen 5 3600 with 3600mhz ram. Boosting and auto overclocking works. Singlecore boosting to 4.3ghz + and all core 4ghz+.


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## Khonjel (Jul 21, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> From the 3600 TPU review:
> As you can see, Ryzen 5 3600 boosts to a single clock speed of 4.2 GHz all the time, no matter how many cores are active. The Ryzen 5 3600X in comparison boosts slightly higher for low-threaded workloads, but with eight or more threads loaded, it ends up at pretty much the same 4.2 GHz as the Ryzen 5 3600.
> 
> 
> ...


Do you reckon 3600X can reach the 4.4 Ghz boost with better bios in the future? Or is it thermally limited?



silentbogo said:


> I'm using x470 Aorus Ultra at home, and a couple of days ago installed B450 Aorus M for a client, and so far I have no complaints about BIOS.
> All overclocking features are present, voltage control is just as good/weird as on other boards (but works perfectly once you get a hold of it). Plus, most sAM4 boards from Gigabyte are pretty good at memory overclocking. Even my super-old HyperX DDR4-2133 kit went up to 2733MHz, where Z170/270/370 failed to do anything above 2400. I'm still going to upgrade to 3200+, but at least it saved me the immediate expense.
> Another thing I like about AORUS boards, is that they come with a decent M.2 heatsink.
> 
> BTW, B450 Aorus Pro WiFi is based on the same PCB as my Ultra. Probably the exact same VRM.


The reason why I didn't even consider Gigabyte was because of the abysmal VRM temp result in the Hardware Unboxed vid. Steve put a 120mm fan on top of the heatsink (or heat trap) and still it was mid 80s iirc.



IceScreamer said:


> At least for the time being, I would avoid MSI's B450 boards with Ryzen 3000 series, they are plagued with issues, being unable to boot half of the time, unsuccessful BIOS flashing and so on. MSI is aware of the issue and is working on a fix.


Yeah it's been a shitshow from what I hear. Hopefully it all irons out before I buy a few weeks later cause I'm very interested in them.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jul 21, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> At least for the time being, I would avoid MSI's B450 boards with Ryzen 3000 series,


Look for new (MSI) stock that will have MAX in the name.








						MSI MAX AM4 Boards Real: 32MB BIOS ROMs and Ryzen 3000 Out-of-the-Box Support
					

MSI is among the motherboard manufacturers who had to significantly modify their UEFI firmware packages to cram in AGESA ComboAM4 1.0.0.3ab microcode on their AMD 300-series and 400-series chipset motherboards, due to firmware ROM size limitations. Most older MSI AM4 motherboards have 128 Mbit...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## IceScreamer (Jul 21, 2019)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Look for new stock that will have MAX in the name.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh I've heard about the MAX line, but after seeing a discussion on a different forum, the bigger BIOS will "only" solve the CPU compatibility and restore cut features. In the end it is still the same board, unless there are more changes under the hood.


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## Khonjel (Jul 21, 2019)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Look for new stock that will have MAX in the name.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's just double capacity to cram in more animation and stuff. The problem is most boards aren't posting with the 3000 chips. While some post but don't after a reboot.


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## thebluebumblebee (Jul 21, 2019)

Khonjel said:


> That's just double capacity to cram in more animation and stuff. The problem is most boards aren't posting with the 3000 chips. While some post but don't after a reboot.


Are you saying that concerning the MSI "MAX" boards?


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## Samiam66 (Jul 21, 2019)

Hello

The tomhawk is a solid board ..Yes the ASUS had wicked VRM problems up and down the brand offerings X-470 included...
Which is really dissapointing like thier bios layout...  

Just returned a X-470 ASUS Pro and got a Asrock Taichi board . the ultimate ran 80 dollars more to get Crazy lan speed which I didnt need


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## Tatty_One (Jul 22, 2019)

In terms of power delivery I would probably go.......
1.Pro Carbon
2. Strix F

From the list.  If it was based purely on the whole package probably the Strix F.


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## Ergastolano (Jul 23, 2019)

What do you think about the ASUS TUF B450M-PRO GAMING?


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## X800 (Jul 23, 2019)

I bought the Asus Tuf B450M-Pro Gaming with the Ryzen 5 3600 our board worked right out of the box. But you must have the newest bios installed. Only thing i had to fix was the infinity fabric speed that should be half of memory speed.


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## Ergastolano (Jul 23, 2019)

X800 said:


> I bought the Asus Tuf B450M-Pro Gaming with the Ryzen 5 3600 our board worked right out of the box. But you must have the newest bios installed. Only thing i had to fix was the infinity fabric speed that should be half of memory speed.


Thanks for your return. So if I understood you have some problem with you ram?


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## X800 (Jul 23, 2019)

No problem with ram. I have 2 sticks off Gskill 3600mhz ram . All i did was choose the xmp profile and thats it. The 570 boards have the same issue when you choose the memory speed the infinity fabric should be half off memory speed but you set that yourself so its no big deal. I haven´t had any issues like msi boards have.


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## Final_Fighter (Jul 23, 2019)

go with the asrock board. they are solid and asrock did a good job on the bios. they made sure to not fill it with a lot of bloat and it gets the job done.


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## Badelhas (Jul 26, 2019)

thebluebumblebee said:


> Look for new (MSI) stock that will have MAX in the name.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When will they truly be available to buy, though? I'm waiting for the MSI B450 Tomahawk Max to buy a Ryzen 3600... 
Cheers


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## thebluebumblebee (Jul 26, 2019)

MSI AMD 400-series and 300-series MAX Motherboards Now Available
					

MSI, the world's leading motherboard brand, is proud to announce AMD AM4 300- and 400- series MAX motherboards. Since AMD Ryzen 3000 series processors launched and have attracted public attention all over the world, AM4 socket compatibility has become a contentious topic for people who are...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## Khonjel (Jul 27, 2019)

Okay final dash to buying the motherboard. Anyone has experience using both AsRock and MSI Ryzen bios?

I heard AsRock bios is hard to figure out. A la unintuitive.

On the other hand MSI bios for the longest time didn't have voltage offset. I fear to find out what else they've sacrificed because of bios memory limitation.

Not only that but which has finer oc details like lowest mV steps in voltage offset, SOC voltage, dram voltage, llc voltage etc. Lowest steps in clock rate etc.


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## Ergastolano (Jul 27, 2019)

Guys, the Asus Tuf B450M Pro Gaming don't have the Bios Flashback, it si right?
So if you need to upgrade for Ryzen 3000 and you don't have an old Ryzen cpu, you are f.... ?


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## Chomiq (Jul 27, 2019)

Khonjel said:


> That's just double capacity to cram in more animation and stuff. The problem is most boards aren't posting with the 3000 chips. While some post but don't after a reboot.


MAX boards will already have new updates installed in factory, so you can plug in 3000 series without any issues.



thebluebumblebee said:


> MSI AMD 400-series and 300-series MAX Motherboards Now Available
> 
> 
> MSI, the world's leading motherboard brand, is proud to announce AMD AM4 300- and 400- series MAX motherboards. Since AMD Ryzen 3000 series processors launched and have attracted public attention all over the world, AM4 socket compatibility has become a contentious topic for people who are...
> ...


Thing is, they aren't listed anywhere AFAIK. MSI didn't even say a word about availability in that press release. Local MSI reps couldn't give me a solid date on when the boards will be available for purchase.


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## Mussels (Jul 28, 2019)

Khonjel said:


> Okay final dash to buying the motherboard. Anyone has experience using both AsRock and MSI Ryzen bios?
> 
> I heard AsRock bios is hard to figure out. A la unintuitive.
> 
> ...



the lack of voltage offset pissed me off on MSI, but when i tested idle temps + wattages it made almost zero difference
1700 non X at 1.4v 3.8Ghz, was like 5W more at idle when measured at the wall/from my UPS


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## Khonjel (Jul 28, 2019)

Mussels said:


> the lack of voltage offset pissed me off on MSI, but when i tested idle temps + wattages it made almost zero difference
> 1700 non X at 1.4v 3.8Ghz, was like 5W more at idle when measured at the wall/from my UPS


Iirc lack of voltage offset basically meant PBO was nothing but a fancy setting in the bios.

You got MSI board? Running a 3000 Ryzen on it?

Can you tell me if anything's amiss here in Steel Legend bios:


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## Mussels (Jul 28, 2019)

had an MSI board, x370 - dont have anymore due to its weak VRMs


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## lukart (Aug 2, 2019)

Khonjel said:


> Okay final dash to buying the motherboard. Anyone has experience using both AsRock and MSI Ryzen bios?
> 
> I heard AsRock bios is hard to figure out. A la unintuitive.
> 
> ...




In my experience I like Asrock better,Msi sometimes have real trouble applying settings and a bit unstable.
Have you considered B450 Steel?


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## Ergastolano (Aug 7, 2019)

AM4 Vcore VRM Ratings v1.4 (2019-11-07)
					

AM4 Vcore VRM Ratings v1.4  AM4 Vcore VRM Ratings v1.4 (2019-11-07)  By Cr1318 (Reddit) Cautilus#5912 (Discord)  (I don't accept random friend requests on Discord, but you can send me a question on there if you share a server with me, you can find me on the discord.gg/overclock server,  otherwise...




					docs.google.com


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## johnny-r (Aug 7, 2019)

Heard about the problem with the MSI B450 gaming plus boards booting up, I have one of these boards and  I simply used the Flashback bios update method and used .17 bios version, the 2nd BIOS release that supports the 3000 series CPU's and whalah ! my PC boot up every time without any issues, done the XMP profile for my RAM and I set the CPU fan speeds properly for higher load temps, the only time I noticed it does not boot the first time is when I changed something in the BIOS and save and reboot option but it's working fine now...


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