# Sooooo, is it an acceptable time to build a computer yet?



## CoachRig (Jun 5, 2021)

I know things were crazy over the past year, but I am dying to start my first build. Is it an acceptable time to start my build? How inflated are the prices right now compared to pre-covid years?


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## 80-watt Hamster (Jun 5, 2021)

Graphics is still nuts, motherboards and power supplies are up, everything else is more-or-less acceptable except high-capacity storage, though anything can vary by region.  You can still find OK prices on boards and PSUs with patience.


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## Rock N Roll Rebel (Jun 5, 2021)

you can have a system built for you by artesian builds Artesian (artesianbuilds.com) they have good prices and you can watch your system being built on twitch.tv plus you can get free upgrades from people who gift subs


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## erocker (Jun 5, 2021)

Takes a couple minutes to check prices and decide for yourself.


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## CoachRig (Jun 5, 2021)

80-watt Hamster said:


> Graphics is still nuts, motherboards and power supplies are up, everything else is more-or-less acceptable except high-capacity storage, though anything can vary by region.  You can still find OK prices on boards and PSUs with patience.


Appreciate the insight and opinion.


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## ixi (Jun 5, 2021)

skellattarr said:


> you can have a system built for you by artesian builds Artesian (artesianbuilds.com) they have good prices and you can watch your system being built on twitch.tv plus you can get free upgrades from people who gift subs



Uhtii, this is something new. But those prices are not good at which they are selling pc... took default amd setup. 1 500 euro. By default it is 3600, when you add 5600x it is +300e, so no, thanks no. They don't minus  price from previous component...



Back to case. GPU prices are still far off... I'm waiting almost 1 year to build my own pc. I'd say wait more. There is no joy to overpay for components.


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## Khonjel (Jun 5, 2021)

Since ETH 2.0 got delayed to 2022 from later this year (as always), your best bet is waiting until late July for EIP 15-something to take place. It's supposed to slash mining profit. Hopefully seasonal miners give up during that time. Actually mining profit is already down for almost a month now. Plus China crackdown-related price crash didn't help anyone engaging in ETH. So many a few miners quit already. If EIP thingy slashes profit even more, you can bet that'll be the end of mining-enduced shortages.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 5, 2021)

CoachRig said:


> I know things were crazy over the past year, but I am dying to start my first build. Is it an acceptable time to start my build? How inflated are the prices right now compared to pre-covid years?


If you have a more recent system, a few upgrades might serve you better than a full build.

Care to share what your systems specs are? It's easier to help you gauge an upgrade path if we know where you're at hardware wise.


erocker said:


> Takes a couple minutes to check prices and decide for yourself.


Oh come now, you more than most know it's not as easy as that...


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## xtreemchaos (Jun 5, 2021)

in a word NO, but it can be done if you dont mind paying the price. im not looking at any new builds for till at least the end of the year unless i get some hand me downs.


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

In my area, RAM prices are up, but it's possible to build a working system if you don't mind waiting for a graphics card, and using an Intel CPU and/or whatever graphics card you currently have (if you have one) for the time being.


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## ThrashZone (Jun 5, 2021)

Hi,
Regions differ on prices except for gpu's then all are whack


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## welly321 (Jun 5, 2021)

If you have a GPU already, its a great time to build a computer. There are some awesome CPUs out right now. I am still rocking an i7 7700k with a 3060ti but I am planning to build a new computer soon and just reuse my GPU. The 5 series AMD processors are excellent and have better thermals than the equivalent intel processors.


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

welly321 said:


> If you have a GPU already, its a great time to build a computer. There are some awesome CPUs out right now. I am still rocking an i7 7700k with a 3060ti but I am planning to build a new computer soon and just reuse my GPU. The 5 series AMD processors are excellent *and have better thermals than the equivalent intel processors*.


That isn't necessarily true. May I recommend my build log as an example of the opposite:








						Small form factor gaming - build log and support forum for new builders
					

I'm starting this thread as a build log, but if anyone wants to join with their systems, or just to seek advice, feel free.  I've been a PC gamer since 1998, and have been building my own computers since 2004. In the last 7 or 8 years, I've been specialising in small form factor builds. I find...




					www.techpowerup.com
				



With the rest of your post, I agree.


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## welly321 (Jun 5, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> That isn't necessarily true. May I recommend my build log as an example of the opposite:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


interesting, thank you for the info. I have been debating getting an i7 11700 or a ryzen 5 and mostly I am concerned about thermals because I like to use smaller cases and air coolers. AIO water coolers fail much to often for my liking and I don't plan on building a custom watercooling solution.


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

welly321 said:


> interesting, thank you for the info. I have been debating getting an i7 11700 or a ryzen 5 and mostly I am concerned about thermals because I like to use smaller cases and air coolers. AIO water coolers fail much to often for my liking and I don't plan on building a custom watercooling solution.


If you ask me, Ryzen 5/7 is nice, but you need at least a tower cooler for it - Coolermaster Hyper 212 or similar. Top-flow and other low profile constructions won't do. The Core i7 is nice too, but you'll need to be careful about your motherboard choice. Some boards will only run it safely with the stock power limit, while some other boards can't even do that. 

It's easier to choose a motherboard for AMD, but it's easier to choose a cooler for Intel, I guess.


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## X71200 (Jun 5, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> If you ask me, Ryzen 5/7 is nice, but you need at least a tower cooler for it - Coolermaster Hyper 212 or similar.



If you know so much, why are you even suggesting the 212? Gelid Phantom right now costs 5 bucks less and walks all over it. It's by no means a great cooler and throttles with higher TDP coolers, while the Gelid can handle most things you'll throw at it.


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## Colddecked (Jun 5, 2021)

X71200 said:


> If you know so much, why are you even suggesting the 212? Gelid Phantom right now costs 5 bucks less and walks all over it. It's by no means a great cooler and throttles with higher TDP coolers, while the Gelid can handle most things you'll throw at it.



Dang 30 bucks for a dual tower cooler, which comes with good paste as well is a great deal thanks for the tip.  I think he was just saying the 212 is the bare min though...


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## X71200 (Jun 5, 2021)

Tbh the 212 hasn't been the go-to in ages. Even back some 5-10 years ago, it was getting stumped by Cryorig products at the same price level.


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## Colddecked (Jun 5, 2021)

But its often on sale for peanuts.  For alot of people, there's no reason to get anything better.

That being said, I agree with you, there's much better bang for the buck nowadays if you put alittle effort into researching it.


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## freeagent (Jun 5, 2021)

It was only popular because it was cheap, and better than stock. Oh you will find die hard enthusiasts for the 212 make no mistake.. I threw mine away because that's what I thought of it lol.. My bro gave it to me..


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

X71200 said:


> If you know so much, why are you even suggesting the 212? Gelid Phantom right now costs 5 bucks less and walks all over it. It's by no means a great cooler and throttles with higher TDP coolers, while the Gelid can handle most things you'll throw at it.


If you knew how to read, you'd know that I never said that the Hyper 212 is the best tower cooler money can buy. I simply picked a random model that (almost) everybody knows and trusts as an example.


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## X71200 (Jun 5, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> If you knew how to read, you'd know that I never said that the Hyper 212 is the best tower cooler money can buy. I simply picked a random model that (almost) everybody knows and trusts as an example.



Nobody said you mentioned it to be the BEST tower cooler money can buy, seemingly you can't comprehend your own comment. Go to the TPU benchmarks here to see how trustable of a cooler it is, throttles with various higher end chips.


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

X71200 said:


> seemingly you can't comprehend your own comment


But you can, right?


X71200 said:


> Go to the TPU benchmarks here to see how trustable of a cooler it is, throttles with various higher end chips.


Nobody talked about higher end chips. The post I commented to mentioned a Ryzen 5. Seemingly it's not me who has trouble with comprehension.

Besides, my friend that bought my R5 3600 cools it with a cheap noname tower cooler (Abconcore or something), so a 212 should be enough too.


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## X71200 (Jun 5, 2021)

Fact of the matter is, you DO NOT need those coolers with a 3600. The stock is perfectly suffice. I own one and have used it.


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

X71200 said:


> Fact of the matter is, you DO NOT need those coolers with a 3600. The stock is perfectly suffice. I own one and have used it.


That I agree with - if by "suffice" you mean just about keeping it from throttling.


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## X71200 (Jun 5, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> That I agree with - if by "suffice" you mean just about keeping it from throttling.



I'm out on this one. You seem to think the 3600 stock cooler is just about keeping it from throttle point, please do your research and come up with less nonsensical statements next time.


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

X71200 said:


> I'm out on this one. You seem to think the 3600 stock cooler is just about keeping it from throttle point


I don't need to _think_ that. I used to own one. In fact, the reason why I sold it is because it was impossible to cool in a thin SFF case without dragging its PPT down.



X71200 said:


> please do your research and come up with less nonsensical statements next time.


I'd appreciate it if you stopped telling me what to do. Next insult will result in a report. Thanks.


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## X71200 (Jun 5, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I don't need to _think_ that. I used to own one. In fact, the reason why I sold it is because it was impossible to cool in a thin SFF case without dragging its PPT down.
> 
> 
> I'd appreciate it if you stopped telling me what to do. Next insult will result in a report. Thanks.



I see you're not understanding the difference between a thin SFF setup and a regular ATX rig. But after your previous comments, I'm not surprised.


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

X71200 said:


> I see you're not understanding the difference between a thin SFF setup and a regular ATX rig. But after your previous comments, I'm not surprised.


Oh but you said, the factory cooler is enough, so technically, it should be enough in a SFF setup too. 

I've only built SFF computers for the last 8 or so years, so I totally don't have any experience in the topic.


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## X71200 (Jun 5, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Oh but you said, the factory cooler is enough, so technically, it should be enough in a SFF setup too.



Common sense says it's enough in a standard ATX PC with proper intake and exhaust. Your specific scenario is not relative and therefore a nonsensical example.

What you're saying is basically a small boat with X engine will do 60 knots whereas the same engine in a bigger boat will only do 40 knots. You're pushing the limitations of the cooler due size strains, just like how you're pushing the engine while trying to go with the bigger boat.


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

X71200 said:


> Common sense says it's enough in a standard ATX PC with proper intake and exhaust. Your specific scenario is not relative and therefore a nonsensical example.


So basically, every form factor that is smaller than ATX is "not relative and nonsensical" because "common sense" says PC = ATX. Got it... I only wonder why motherboard and case manufacturers don't know this. I also wonder why I have no issues cooling my Core i7-11700 with a manually adjusted 100 Watt PL1 in the same case with the same cooler (yes, I tried the 3600 with the Shadow Rock LP).

Maybe we should stop this conversation and agree to disagree.


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## X71200 (Jun 5, 2021)

No the point was a slim SFF rig which goes straight into the "niche" bin. You should know and understand the limitations of such setup better than I do... any setup smaller than ATX doesn't equal to bad airflow. However in your case, it sounded like you definitely have worse airflow than ATX / M-ATX w/e.


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

X71200 said:


> No the point was a slim SFF rig which goes straight into the "niche" bin. You should know and understand the limitations of such setup better than I do... any setup smaller than ATX doesn't equal to bad airflow. However in your case, it sounded like you definitely have worse airflow than ATX / M-ATX w/e.


That's right, I do have worse airflow than a standard ATX case with 12 cm fans, as I only have an 8 cm intake and exhaust. Still, the AMD Wraith Stealth cooler is fine for the Ryzen 3 3100, but not enough for the 3600. That's why I recommended a tower cooler - _any_ tower cooler with it. 

Edit: Also, worse than standard airflow doesn't equal no chance to cool. My i7-11700 behaves just fine with the Shadow Rock LP under these low airflow situations. That's why I'm saying Intel has the better platform _for SFF builds_.


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## X71200 (Jun 5, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> That's right, I do have worse airflow than a standard ATX case optimised for airflow, as I only have an 8 cm intake and exhaust. Still, the AMD Wraith Stealth cooler is fine for the Ryzen 3 3100, but not enough for the 3600. That's why I recommended a tower cooler - _any_ tower cooler with it.



Which is incorrect:



			https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/1871/bench/Temps-p.webp
		


The cooler is perfectly fine and functional, again your specific case of use can be misleading.

Any tower cooler also doesn't mean it's good or worth it. Some tower coolers can be bad, in noise for example - or just not cool very well (such as the case of Hyper 212).


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

X71200 said:


> Any tower cooler also doesn't mean it's good or worth it. Some tower coolers can be bad, in noise for example - or just not cool very well (such as the case of Hyper 212).


That is true. Though probably all of them are better than the stock cooler.



X71200 said:


> Which is incorrect:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also from Techspot: "You can enable PBO with the box cooler, but it won’t do much as you’re already near the thermal limit. Basically we gained 25 MHz for a 4 degree increase in temperature... needless to be said, we don’t recommend using PBO with the box cooler." And this is said with measurements taken in "ideal" test conditions.


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## X71200 (Jun 5, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> That is true. Though probably all of them are better than the stock cooler.
> 
> 
> Also from Techspot: "You can enable PBO with the box cooler, but it won’t do much as you’re already near the thermal limit. Basically we gained 25 MHz for a 4 degree increase in temperature... needless to be said, we don’t recommend using PBO with the box cooler." And this is said with measurements taken in "ideal" test conditions.



You're disregarding the fact that it's a temp rating that came up at the end of a 1 hour blender test, aka a complete hotbox mess.

You'll never see those temps, ever in your everyday usage scenarios such as gaming.


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

X71200 said:


> You're disregarding the fact that it's a temp rating that came up at the end of a 1 hour blender test, aka a complete hotbox mess.
> 
> You'll never see those temps, ever in your everyday usage scenarios such as gaming.


I can't agree or disagree, as I never got to test gaming on my 3600. Though I can say that the 5950X I had before that ran hotter in games than in Cinebench multi as a result of a less balanced load on fewer cores, higher boost and higher voltage. The same can be said about my 11700, but not my 3100 as it basically maxes out its boost under every load.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 5, 2021)

Folks, let's get back on topic, helping the OP decide on an upgrade path.


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## X71200 (Jun 5, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> I can't agree or disagree, as I never got to test gaming on my 3600. Though I can say that the 5950X I had before that ran hotter in games than in Cinebench multi as a result of a less balanced load on fewer cores, higher boost and higher voltage. The same can be said about my 11700, but not my 3100 as it basically maxes out its boost under every load.



Sounds like a weird core balance management issue, which can also happen when you toy with some of the AMD CBS settings - but Blender is supposed to be a stress test and you don't Cinebench for 1 hour so... eh.

To answer OP's question, his best bet would probably be a pre-built. There are some deals again on Newegg, you can get a 2060 PC for a grand easily, with 16gb RAM and 10400.


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## AusWolf (Jun 5, 2021)

X71200 said:


> Sounds like a weird core balance management issue, which can also happen when you toy with some of the AMD CBS settings - but Blender is supposed to be a stress test and you don't Cinebench for 1 hour so... eh.


I didn't touch CBS (especially not on the 11700 as it doesn't have it). I think it's normal behaviour with CPUs that have large differences between single and multi core boost.



lexluthermiester said:


> Folks, let's get back on topic, helping the OP decide on an upgrade path.


Right. Sorry for the detour.

OP: Looking at UK prices, the only thing that got slightly more expensive lately is RAM. Ryzen 5000 series CPUs are a bit on the expensive side too, but as a one-time investment, I wouldn't worry - or I'd rather buy Intel just to use the iGPU until graphics cards are back in stock. The only reason you can't build a gaming PC right now is graphics card unavailability. If you're happy with integrated graphics for a while, I see no reason not to build.



X71200 said:


> To answer OP's question, his best bet would probably be a pre-built. There are some deals again on Newegg, you can get a 2060 PC for a grand easily, with 16gb RAM and 10400.


That is a good option too.


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## ixi (Jun 5, 2021)

X71200 said:


> If you know so much, why are you even suggesting the 212? Gelid Phantom right now costs 5 bucks less and walks all over it. It's by no means a great cooler and throttles with higher TDP coolers, while the Gelid can handle most things you'll throw at it.


Gelid phantom is great cooler. I'm using it with 4650G, no regrets. When playing apex via hwmonitor cpu temp maxes at 40.


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## Kabouter Plop (Jun 5, 2021)

If you can avoid it then avoid it, if you other choice please do not pay scalper prices for hardware, like if you wanna buy gaming pc first time, maybe try buy a gpu first at msrp and then buy the rest, cos gpu is probably hardest to get, im sure i could buy another 6900 XT with enough luck on amd.com if i tryit as i know what kind of prep it requires, however you never can prepare for bad luck, im not sure how easy it is buying nvidia gpu i would imagine harder, especially evga notify queue.


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## ThrashZone (Jun 5, 2021)

Hi,
People don't even know what part of the planet the op lives in lol


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## erocker (Jun 5, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Oh come now, you more than most know it's not as easy as that...


No, it is literally that easy. OP knows their budget and where to purchase hardware based on their location. You look up the hardware, prices and then determine based upon your individual needs and budget if it's a good time to buy computer hardware or not.


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## biffzinker (Jun 6, 2021)

X71200 said:


> Tbh the 212 hasn't been the go-to in ages. Even back some 5-10 years ago, it was getting stumped by Cryorig products at the same price level.


The 212 Black Edition hasn’t been insufficient for me cooling a 3800X.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 6, 2021)

erocker said:


> No, it is literally that easy. OP knows their budget and where to purchase hardware based on their location. You look up the hardware, prices and then determine based upon your individual needs and budget if it's a good time to buy computer hardware or not.


If the OP has come here looking for advice they obviously need it. If you don't want to help, feel free to visit another thread.


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## 95Viper (Jun 6, 2021)

Stop the off-topic side arguments/discussions.
Stay on course, please.

Thank You and have a great night.


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## erocker (Jun 6, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> If the OP has come here looking for advice they obviously need it. If you don't want to help, feel free to visit another thread.


I gave them all the help they need for a rather simple question. 

Take care!


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## X71200 (Jun 6, 2021)

biffzinker said:


> The 212 Black Edition hasn’t been insufficient for me cooling a 3800X.



It's no better than what comes out of the box of that CPU, just less noise. If I had to choose between it and tens of other coolers which edge it by some 20 degrees at load, I'd pick the other coolers. It's not worth it to buy the Hyper for saving what is pocket change money.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Jun 6, 2021)

if it dosnt include a GPU, then yes


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## X71200 (Jun 6, 2021)

That's been bit of a trend lately in some sellers. They sell machines with no GPUs or non-gaming capable GPUs, makes the prices look better..


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Jun 6, 2021)

erocker said:


> Takes a couple minutes to check prices and decide for yourself.


I know right ?

A lot of these thread are popping up lately, a simple google search on online retailers would answer their own questions.

Its funny really, a lot of these questions answer themselfs anyway lol


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## NotHereMan (Jun 6, 2021)

CoachRig said:


> I know things were crazy over the past year, but I am dying to start my first build. Is it an acceptable time to start my build? How inflated are the prices right now compared to pre-covid years?


For gaming? No. In my area, everything is going up: resales(eBay)/food/services/cars/apartments. The only thing that hasn't gone up is my salary. They say the price inflation is temporary and set by the businesses themselves, but we'll see. If you want to establish a career in IT or make computers a hobby, then THAT would be acceptable. But, you don't need a $1K-$2K graphics card that's only worth a fraction of that. If you live near a microcenter, getting everything else at MSRP will be much easier.


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## RealKGB (Jun 6, 2021)

Only if you don't mind:
1. Getting a computer without a GPU (running off of integrated graphics)
2. Getting a really old GPU such as this GTX 670 that I found on eBay.


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## biffzinker (Jun 6, 2021)

The stock Wraith Prism is 92C vs 85C for the 212 Black Edition. Tested on a 3900X at 4 GHz


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## X71200 (Jun 6, 2021)

Which goes along with my saying of it being more or less the same performance within the margin or error. The Prism is loud though I'll give you that... not that at those temps the Hyper would be actually good acoustically.


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## AusWolf (Jun 6, 2021)

X71200 said:


> Which goes along with my saying of it being more or less the same performance within the margin or error. The Prism is loud though I'll give you that... not that at those temps the Hyper would be actually good acoustically.


Besides, the 3600 (non-X) comes with the Stealth, not the Prism.


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## Paganstomp (Jun 6, 2021)

Ordered this new GIGABYTE G5 KC laptop today. Might be the cheapest way to get an RTX 30xx. This is not a replacement for my gaming desktop. My old laptop is based on an AMD A12 APU and you can forget about playing anything on that these days.









						GIGABYTE G5 KC - 15.6" FHD IPS Anti-Glare 144Hz - Intel Core i5-10500H - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU 6 GB GDDR6 - 16 GB Memory - 512 GB SSD - Windows 10 Home - Gaming Laptop (G5 KC-5US1130SH) - Newegg.com
					

Buy GIGABYTE G5 KC - 15.6" FHD IPS Anti-Glare 144Hz - Intel Core i5-10500H - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Laptop GPU 6 GB GDDR6 - 16 GB Memory - 512 GB PCIe SSD - Windows 10 Home - Gaming Laptop (G5 KC-5US1130SH) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com


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## robot zombie (Jun 6, 2021)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> I know right ?
> 
> A lot of these thread are popping up lately, a simple google search on online retailers would answer their own questions.
> 
> Its funny really, a lot of these questions answer themselfs anyway lol


I think a lot of people are probably just hoping... "Let's ask the PC enthusiasts, maybe they'll know something I don't." Everyone knows the answer, but I can TOTALLY understand hoping. My heart goes out to people really needing a build right now. It's a terrible time to get into... a lot of things. Basically anything material... especially tech, it seems. Really a multi-pronged illness, but I mean... you have a pandemic clogging logistics and development, making things scarcer and thus much more costly. And then on top of that, you have a whole bunch of people with a lot of spare time for hobbies. Those who had the money to fuel their newfound desperation for fulfillment, spent it. And here we are in the resulting stagnation.

Of course, so many other SPECIFIC factors involved. But I'm seeing this with so many hobby interests right now. Supply and demand is all over the place when it comes to cool stuff.


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## CoachRig (Jun 8, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> If you have a more recent system, a few upgrades might serve you better than a full build.
> Care to share what your systems specs are? It's easier to help you gauge an upgrade path if we know where you're at hardware wise.
> 
> Oh come now, you more than most know it's not as easy as that...


My starting point is so unacceptable I'm deciding I just need to start fresh. I have a computer that just barely handles the work I do and it is built in a case that is like 1.5 feet tall and 1.5 feet deep, it was just enough to get me working lol.



welly321 said:


> If you have a GPU already, its a great time to build a computer. There are some awesome CPUs out right now. I am still rocking an i7 7700k with a 3060ti but I am planning to build a new computer soon and just reuse my GPU. The 5 series AMD processors are excellent and have better thermals than the equivalent intel processors.


Great insight, thank you


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 8, 2021)

CoachRig said:


> My starting point is so unacceptable I'm deciding I just need to start fresh.


For giggles, give us a hint.


CoachRig said:


> I have a computer that just barely handles the work I do and it is built in a case that is like 1.5 feet tall and 1.5 feet deep, it was just enough to get me working lol.


Interesting.


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## pantherx12 (Jun 8, 2021)

Honestly it's cheaper to get a reputable company to build for you at the moment.

Their prices are inflated but atleast an rtx 3070 will only cost £750 to £800 not £1250.


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## X71200 (Jun 8, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Besides, the 3600 (non-X) comes with the Stealth, not the Prism.



Because it also pulls a lot less power. Surely those at AMD understand more about this than you do.


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## AusWolf (Jun 8, 2021)

X71200 said:


> Because it also pulls a lot less power. Surely those at AMD understand more about this than you do.


Less than the 3900X, not less than any other 6/8-core 65 W TDP Ryzen. All of them max out their 88 W PPT, but only the 3600 comes with the inferior cooler for some reason.

"Because it also pulls a lot less power."  - would have been a perfectly acceptable answer. You won't appear any smarter by comparing my knowledge to that of AMD engineers. Just saying.


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## X71200 (Jun 8, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Less than the 3900X, not less than any other 6/8-core 65 W TDP Ryzen. All of them max out their 88 W PPT, but only the 3600 comes with the inferior cooler for some reason.
> 
> "Because it also pulls a lot less power."  - would have been a perfectly acceptable answer. You won't appear any smarter by comparing my knowledge to that of AMD engineers. Just saying.



That depends on what settings are used with the CPU, however the 3600 is the least power consuming out of all of them, which is the reason of the smaller cooler.

Moreover, it's no longer been a chip worth buying compared to the Intel alternatives due to AMD's recent crap pricing. So whatever your point is, it is moot. Even with pre-builts, 3600 rigs still cost more than Intel ones with the ABS machines I look at.


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## AusWolf (Jun 8, 2021)

X71200 said:


> the 3600 is the least power consuming out of all of them, which is the reason of the smaller cooler.


Not true. All of them consume the same amount of power with stock settings under full load which is 88 Watts. I recommend looking up Package Power Tracking if you're unfamiliar with the term. Note how in the linked article, the 3700X consumes the same amount of power with 12 threads under load as with all 16. The 3600 maxes out its 88 W PPT just the same.



X71200 said:


> Moreover, it's no longer been a chip worth buying compared to the Intel alternatives due to AMD's recent crap pricing. So whatever your point is, it is moot. Even with pre-builts, 3600 rigs still cost more than Intel ones with the ABS machines I look at.


My point is that Ryzen doesn't always run cooler than Intel - in fact, my experiences show that 65 W Intel chips run cooler than 65 W AMD ones because they're actually locked to a 65 W power consumption with stock settings (and also probably because of the larger central die - decreased heat density). It has nothing to do with pricing, or the 3600 specifically.


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## X71200 (Jun 8, 2021)

AusWolf said:


> Not true. All of them consume the same amount of power with stock settings under full load which is 88 Watts. I recommend looking up Package Power Tracking if you're unfamiliar with the term. Note how in the linked article, the 3700X consumes the same amount of power with 12 threads under load as with all 16. The 3600 maxes out its 88 W PPT just the same.
> 
> 
> My point is that Ryzen doesn't always run cooler than Intel - in fact, my experiences show that 65 W Intel chips run cooler than 65 W AMD ones because they're actually locked to a 65 W power consumption with stock settings (and also probably because of the larger central die - decreased heat density). It has nothing to do with pricing, or the 3600 specifically.



Did I say Ryzen runs cooler than Intel? Again, it depends on the chips used AND the settings used. I personally either all core OC or toy with Precision Boost curve, those kind of things change power consumption.

Regardless, your point does NOT matter. The 3600 costs more while performing WORSE than both the 10400 and the 11400, so it's not a CPU worth buying.


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## Mr Bill (Jun 8, 2021)

I don't believe anyone looking for just a personal PC will have any problems finding a nice one on eBay or building one. If you're a gamer, well I don't know, I'm not a gamer. Here's a perfect example of a decent personal PC "IMO" on eBay for surfing the web, and probably most anything else besides gaming. They're good personal PC's galore.









						Dell Inspiron 3670 Core i5-8400 2.80GHz 12GB 1TB HDD DVD+RW Desktop (O1581)  | eBay
					

This item has been successfully tested for power on/key functions and is R2/Ready For Resale.  DVD+RW Drive . The item exteriors may have minor scratches, scuffs, dents, cracks, nicks, etc.  Accessories Not Included .



					www.ebay.com


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## AusWolf (Jun 8, 2021)

X71200 said:


> Did I say Ryzen runs cooler than Intel?


Someone else did that I replied to. You just basically kept on riding on the fact that I chose a tower cooler that you don't like as a mere example (not a recommendation).



X71200 said:


> The 3600 costs more while performing WORSE than both the 10400 and the 11400, so it's not a CPU worth buying.


Did I ever recommend buying the 3600?


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## R-T-B (Jun 8, 2021)

Khonjel said:


> Since ETH 2.0 got delayed to 2022 from later this year (as always)


Wasn't the most recent announcement "in the coming months" not 2022?

When was this delay announced?


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## The red spirit (Jun 9, 2021)

X71200 said:


> Regardless, your point does NOT matter. The 3600 costs more while performing WORSE than both the 10400 and the 11400, so it's not a CPU worth buying.


Ryzen 3600 is faster than 10400


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## Why_Me (Jun 9, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> Ryzen 3600 is faster than 10400


Not in regards to gaming.









						Intel Core i5-10400F Review - Six Cores with HT for Under $200
					

Intel's new Core i5-10400F offers a large performance jump over the previous generation Core i5-9400F because of its six-core/twelve-thread design. In this Core i5-10400F review we also test the feasibility of overclocking through BCLK, or by relaxing the PL1 and PL2 Turbo Limits.




					www.techpowerup.com


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## The red spirit (Jun 9, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Not in regards to gaming.
> 
> 
> 
> ...











Seems like Ryzen is a bit more powerful and that's just gaming. In pretty much any productivity task Intel clearly loses. So Ryzen 3600 is a better chip. Anyway, they seem to be close enough to be called equal. And to be honest, I get slightly less points in Cinebench R20 test. My i5 10400F gets ~3000 and on good day ~3080, which may due to JEDEC spec 2666 MHz memory with CL19 latency. W1zzard used memory, which doesn't comply with JEDEC spec and it's a bit faster than typical memory.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> W1zzard used memory, which doesn't comply with JEDEC spec and it's a bit faster than typical memory.


That might be true but it is also irrelevant as W1zzard tests both with identical RAM settings and thus RAM performance is also identical.


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## The red spirit (Jun 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That might be true but it is also irrelevant as W1zzard tests both with identical RAM settings and thus RAM performance is also identical.


He didn't. In methodology page Ryzen systems were using 3200MHz CL14 memory. Well, you can run i5 at that speed too, but Intel locked RAM speed to 2666MHz on anything that's not Z series chipset and considering what market i5 targeted, most people will end up buying locked chipset. At least it was like that year ago, now there's B560, that lets you run memory faster, but I'm not sure if that limit it as chipset or CPU level.


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## Taraquin (Jun 9, 2021)

If you get a used placeholder gpu like 1060 3gb og rx 570/580 4gb you can build a descent 5600/B550 or 11400F/B560-combo atm.


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## PaulieG (Jun 9, 2021)

I'd say that if you are a casual gamer, don't need the latest and greatest and don't mind medium settings, the upper level 4000 series apu's and upcoming 5000 series apus are quite good and the basis for a nice little rig. I have a 5600g I've been playing with a little and I'm quite impressed with it.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> He didn't.


That would be incorrect. Please review;








						Intel Core i5-10400F Review - Six Cores with HT for Under $200
					

Intel's new Core i5-10400F offers a large performance jump over the previous generation Core i5-9400F because of its six-core/twelve-thread design. In this Core i5-10400F review we also test the feasibility of overclocking through BCLK, or by relaxing the PL1 and PL2 Turbo Limits.




					www.techpowerup.com
				





The red spirit said:


> Well, you can run i5 at that speed too, but Intel locked RAM speed to 2666MHz on anything that's not Z series chipset and considering what market i5 targeted, most people will end up buying locked chipset.


Most motherboards will allow RAM to be run at it's proper spec. That is a nothing concern.



PaulieG said:


> I'd say that if you are a casual gamer, don't need the latest and greatest and don't mind medium settings, the upper level 4000 series apu's and upcoming 5000 series apus are quite good and the basis for a nice little rig. I have a 5600g I've been playing with a little and I'm quite impressed with it.


Agreed, these new APU's from AMD are something to be taken seriously.


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## The red spirit (Jun 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That would be incorrect. Please review;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He did test both, but still pretty much every 10400F buyer will not have anything faster than 2666MHz memory, because...



lexluthermiester said:


> Most motherboards will allow RAM to be run at it's proper spec. That is a nothing concern.


...Intel decided that running memory faster is overclocking and official maximum RAM speed for i5 10400F is 2666MHz, thus any other chipset that wasn't Z490 was locked to "stock" speed. At least it was that way until Rocked Lake chipsets came and I'm not sure if they allow you to go beyond Intel's spec.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

The red spirit said:


> He did test both, but still pretty much every 10400F buyer will not have anything faster than 2666MHz memory, because...


Rubbish.


The red spirit said:


> ...Intel decided that running memory faster is overclocking and official maximum RAM speed for i5 10400F is 2666MHz, thus any other chipset that wasn't Z490 was locked to "stock" speed. At least it was that way until Rocked Lake chipsets came and I'm not sure if they allow you to go beyond Intel's spec.


I have yet to see a motherboard that has overclocking options and can not set RAM to it's specified speeds and timings. Intel's limitations only work if the motherboard maker follows them.


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## Dr_b_ (Jun 9, 2021)

Sure build a computer now, the biggest problem is going to be getting the GPU you want at a rational price


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## The red spirit (Jun 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Rubbish.
> 
> I have yet to see a motherboard that has overclocking options and can not set RAM to it's specified speeds and timings. Intel's limitations only work if the motherboard maker follows them.


Intel hard locked anyone from doing that. You can't bypass that, at least on H410, B460 and H470 chipsets. Only Z490 chipset can do that. That's why 10400F review specifically tested RAM at 2666MHz. Pentiums were locked to 2400MHz and i7 and i9 were locked to 2933MHz. XMP in general wasn't allowed unless it's Z490 chipset. But since Rocket Lake ban was lifted due to public backlash and poorer than expected sales. And without XMP only JEDEC spec speed was allowed and only up to what that CPU officially supports. Gee, just read about that scandal yourself. Here's a video about it:


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 9, 2021)

I could prove how oh-so-wrong you are, not mention late to that party, but I'm not going too..

We're off-topic and I'm done here...


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## OneMoar (Jun 9, 2021)

NO


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## outpt (Jun 9, 2021)

i have updated about as for as i am willing to go. see system spec. weak link evga 970 ssc. just not willing to sell my soul. i am moving away from mostly gaming to other task and yes i need a faster gpu for some of those task. its a good time for me to build as i have the funds just going to have to look harder for other componemts. it can be a good time to build depending on what you are using the machine for.


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## The red spirit (Jun 9, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I could prove how oh-so-wrong you are, not mention late to that party, but I'm not going too...


I would like to see anything faster than 2666MHz on B460 board with i5 10400F. Unless you modify motherboard itself, it's not going to happen. I'm pretty sure that you just didn't read about Comet Lake's "feature segmentation" and basing your claims on your experience with previous platforms. Comet Lake isn't like that, just read a bit about it and you won't be making a feel out of yourself. I already linked you a video about that. It can't be hard to watch first 3 minutes to understand what is going on.


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## Taraquin (Jun 9, 2021)

Cool thing is that you can OC ram to 4000+ depending on IMC on B560 on 10400F


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## AMF (Jun 10, 2021)

if u can find a used x370 rog board with current bios update  and buy u a ryzen 7 3700 pro ifu can find one  i paid 249 bucks for mine 2 month ago   it will give u a great start. also use vengence rgb pro memory  .  its best to buy a top of the line power supply for good clean power as well single rail gold or platinum certified seasonicget the biggest wattage and amp u can find and ull have it for over a decade.


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## lexluthermiester (Jun 10, 2021)

The OP seems to have made up their mind, this thread has run it's course and we're way off-topic. Recommend closing thread.


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## Tatty_One (Jun 10, 2021)

Thread closed, OP has not been around for a couple of days and it does seem to have run it's course, for him at least.


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