# Gabe Newell Calls Windows 8 a "Catastrophe"



## Ravenas (Jul 26, 2012)

> “We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well. It’s a hedging strategy. I think Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space. I think we’ll lose some of the top-tier PC/OEMs, who will exit the market. I think margins will be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that’s true, then it will be good to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality.



http://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-future-of-games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/

I agree 100% with it being a catastrophe.


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## Sasqui (Jul 26, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> I agree 100% with it being a catastrophe.



Why?  From what I've seen, they are definitely trying to "boil the ocean", and already have 2 major OS's for software vendors to support (ok a lot more with 64 and 32 bit permutations and if you count Vista).  I can't speak to the usability of Win 8 myself, I haven't even looked at the Beta.


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## Black Panther (Jul 26, 2012)

This was what impressed me most in the entire article



> Newell, who has a desk on wheels so he can quickly roll over to his favorite projects within the company


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## Ravenas (Jul 26, 2012)

Black Panther said:


> This was what impressed me most in the entire article



 I lol'ed when I read that. I wish there was a picture.


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## brandonwh64 (Jul 26, 2012)

Just imagine a mustang frame with a 5L 302 V-8 engine and instead of a dash there is a full desk area HAHAHA


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> http://allthingsd.com/20120725/valves-gabe-newell-on-the-future-of-games-wearable-computers-windows-8-and-more/
> 
> I agree 100% with it being a catastrophe.



Hes not saying its a catastrophe because the OS is bad. Hes saying its catastrophe because its a move towards a closed OS much like OSX........nevermind Steam is closed as hell.


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## Ravenas (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Hes not saying its a catastrophe because the OS is bad. Hes saying its catastrophe because its a move towards a closed OS much like OSX........nevermind Steam is closed as hell.



Thank you captain obvious.


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## theubersmurf (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Hes not saying its a catastrophe because the OS is bad. Hes saying its catastrophe because its a move towards a closed OS much like OSX........nevermind Steam is closed as hell.


Steam's not an operating system/operating environment.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> Thank you captain obvious.



Hes a hypocrite that all I'm saying.



theubersmurf said:


> Steam's not an operating system/operating environment.



Its a platform and its closed as hell.


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## Munki (Jul 26, 2012)

Just from the screenshots I haven't even bothered to do any beta testing on it. I'm rather afraid to have to deal with it being a sys admin. Maybe I can convince the big boss man to skip this version.


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## Ravenas (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its a platform and its closed as hell.



It extremely closed. However, it is also extremely open in a sense that it provides an outlet for indie developers out there to actually sell their product to a mass maket that they might have otherwise not had the chance to do.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

Ravenas said:


> It extremely closed. However, it is also extremely open in a sense that it provides an outlet for indie developers out there to actually sell their product to a mass maket that they might have otherwise not had the chance to do.



Its the same with most "app" stores. Valve is it afraid MS might be stepping on thier toes.


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## theubersmurf (Jul 26, 2012)

Have you seen the Xbox8's specs? This thing is designed to replace the home PC in an effort to "monetize" everything you do on the PC. Xbox live and Zune and all the other crap they do on a proprietary PC designed by actuary.

This is not the same as steam. Steam may be closed and a form of DRM, but it doesn't attempt to make things which were previously free and make them proprietary.


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## Ravenas (Jul 26, 2012)

Munki said:


> Just from the screenshots I haven't even bothered to do any beta testing on it. I'm rather afraid to have to deal with it being a sys admin. Maybe I can convince the big boss man to skip this version.



You won't have to do much convinicing. The Windows 8 is built for touch users. Honestly, that is how you get the best experience out of it. Otherwise, just stay with Windows 7.

Microsoft could imposs a DirectX standard on Windows and make people want to upgrade. Similar to what happened from Windows XP to Vista.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

theubersmurf said:


> Have you seen the Xbox8's specs? This thing is designed to replace the home PC in an effort to "monetize" everything you do on the PC. Xbox live and Zune and all the other crap they do on a proprietary PC designed by actuary.
> 
> This is not the same as steam. Steam may be closed and a form of DRM, but it doesn't attempt to make things which were previously free and make them proprietary.



Xbox 8 Specs? Really?



Ravenas said:


> You won't have to do much convinicing. The Windows 8 is built for touch users. Honestly, that is how you get the best experience out of it. Otherwise, just stay with Windows 7.
> 
> Microsoft could imposs a DirectX standard on Windows and make people want to upgrade. Similar to what happened from Windows XP to Vista.



Yeah good luck sticking with Windows 7 forever.


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## Ravenas (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Its the same with most "app" stores. Valve is it afraid MS might be stepping on thier toes.



They have been stepping on Valve's toes for some time now. Take "Games for Windows Live". Microsoft is doing something that developers are already doing on their platform.




TheMailMan78 said:


> Yeah good luck sticking with Windows 7 forever.



Forever is a harsh word MailMan.  Windows 9 maybe?


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## Munki (Jul 26, 2012)

No kidding, Windows 9 will be in Beta a week after Windows 8 hits the shelves.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

Munki said:


> No kidding, Windows 9 will be in Beta a week after Windows 8 hits the shelves.



No it wont. You guys are kinda blind where the industry is going. iOS, OSX will soon be merging. Windows 8 is just taking that step sooner. Desktops and tablets will all soon share the same OS. This is all going to cloud computing. What you are seeing in Windows 8 is the future guys. Love it or hate it the game is changing.


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## Easy Rhino (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Hes a hypocrite that all I'm saying.
> 
> 
> 
> Its a platform and its closed as hell.



Lul. Comparing an OS to a software application is dumb. U should feel dumb.


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## Ravenas (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> No it wont. You guys are kinda blind where the industry is going. iOS, OSX will soon be merging. Windows 8 is just taking that step sooner. Desktops and tablets will all soon share the same OS. This is all going to cloud computing. What you are seeing in Windows 8 is the future guys.



Apple has done the same thing with Lion and Mountain Lion you just seem to downplay this fact. 

Anyhow, it is obvious this is happening. It makes the operating system evolve from a dedicated "Windows only" platform to an ecosystem for many many consumer products. Great... Awesome. However, I don't want to spend 10 minutes searching for applications that can be found in 30 seconds max on Windows 7 all because I don't want to use a touch screen. Seriously, I don't want to play Starcraft 2 on a touch screen. I don't want to use Solid Works on a touch screen. I don't want to do jack sh*t on my computer with a touch screen. I like doing that on iPad or iPhone. However, not on my desktop.


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## theubersmurf (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Xbox 8 Specs? Really?


I love having to spell this out to people. The Xbox is designed to replace the Home PC since most people use it as a multimedia device. The people who run any productivity software will have to buy a different PC, but for most people, the Xbox will be a PC that runs everything they need it to. The Xbox will be a host to a ton of "monetized" services, You'll need xbox live for internet access, and a host of other subscription services. All this on a software platform you can't replace (secure boot).

Windows 8 is an attempt for all of those monetized services to be the norm on your PC courtesy of secure boot. They don't need to allow the platform to remain open for other developers any longer if they can close the PC platform on the software side. 

I'm not going to go into the whole explanation because it's too long, but the Xbox is a cheap PC that serves most people's purposes with tons of subscription content attached.

If they can close the platform up, they don't have to let developers write anything for the platform. Services like steam could just be denied access.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

Easy Rhino said:


> Lul. Comparing an OS to a software application is dumb. U should feel dumb.



Ever heard of Steambox? No? 



Ravenas said:


> Apple has done the same thing with Lion and Mountain Lion you just seem to downplay this fact.
> 
> Anyhow, it is obvious this is happening. It makes the operating system evolve from a dedicated "Windows only" platform to an ecosystem for many many consumer products. Great... Awesome. However, I don't want to spend 10 minutes searching for applications that can be found in 30 seconds max on Windows 7 all because I don't want to use a touch screen. Seriously, I don't want to play Starcraft 2 on a touch screen. I don't want to use Solid Works on a touch screen. I don't want to do jack sh*t on my computer with a touch screen. I like doing that on iPad or iPhone. However, not on my desktop.



You don't need a touch screen for Windows 8. Its just cross platform thats it. It just takes you longer to find things because its new. Not because its slower. OSX is behind windows 8 in this aspect.



theubersmurf said:


> I love having to spell this out to people. The Xbox is designed to replace the Home PC since most people use it as a multimedia device. The people who run any productivity software will have to buy a different PC, but for most people, the Xbox will be a PC that runs everything they need it to. The Xbox will be a host to a ton of "monetized" services, You'll need xbox live for internet access, and a host of other subscription services. All this on a software platform you can't replace (secure boot).
> 
> Windows 8 is an attempt for all of those monetized services to be the norm on your PC courtesy of secure boot. They don't need to allow the platform to remain open for other developers any longer if they can close the PC platform on the software side.
> 
> ...


 They are also closing it to deter piracy. I have no issue with it because I pay for everything. I guess its ok for Apple and Valve but not MS?


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## theubersmurf (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Ever heard of Steambox? No?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To some extent yes, the install base for windows is much larger. If it becomes the norm, many services we're used to being free may not be anymore. We already pay for an ISP, should we need to pay a gatekeeper (for Xbox live) just because they wrote that limitation in?


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

theubersmurf said:


> To some extent yes, the install base for windows is much larger. If it becomes the norm, many services we're used to being free may not be anymore. We already pay for an ISP, should we need to pay a gatekeeper (for Xbox live) just because they wrote that limitation in?



You are free to use Linux.


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## W1zzard (Jul 26, 2012)

Gabe just wants to promote his closed-source Linux DRM, so he can make more billions

Apparently mentioning "Windows 8 sucks" gets his statement posted everywhere -> more people now know that there is Steam for Linux, next he can go to publishers and say "look everybody knows about Linux Steam. If you make a crap console port to Linux, we will only take 50% of the game cost as service fee for Steam"


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## brandonwh64 (Jul 26, 2012)

If they could make games work on linux along with having good gpu drivers I would try it out.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

W1zzard said:


> Gabe just wants to promote his closed-source Linux DRM, so he can make more billions



And boom goes the dynamite.


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## theubersmurf (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You are free to use Linux.


I may be doing that, but finding mobos without windows secure boot may become hard.

Don't get the wrong idea, While I'm sure Microsoft would love to do this, not every other company with any leverage wants this. (Though I'm wondering if enough care to stop it) I'm sure other figures involved in this situation are aware of the implications, and don't really want Microsoft to "own all of computing."


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## theubersmurf (Jul 26, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> If they could make games work on linux along with having good gpu drivers I would try it out.


Good linux drivers would likely be driven by demand. You'd need more people wanting better drivers in order for there to be enough pressure to make the gpu vendors write good drivers.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

theubersmurf said:


> I may be doing that, but finding mobos without windows secure boot may become hard.
> 
> Don't get the wrong idea, While I'm sure Microsoft would love to do this, not every other company with any leverage wants this. (Though I'm wondering if enough care to stop it) I'm sure other figures involved in this situation are aware of the implications, and don't really want Microsoft to "own all of computing."



They don't. They have a cozy relationship with Apple to starve off any anti-trust suits that might come their way. They don't wanna control all the world. Just enough to not get sued.



theubersmurf said:


> Good linux drivers would likely be driven by demand. You'd need more people wanting better drivers in order for there to be enough pressure to make the gpu vendors write good drivers.



Not gonna happen. NVIDIA and AMD have way to much invested in making games run good on consoles and Windows.


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## theubersmurf (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> They don't. They have a cozy relationship with Apple to starve off any anti-trust suits that might come their way. They don't wanna control all the world. Just enough to not get sued.


True.





TheMailMan78 said:


> Not gonna happen. NVIDIA and AMD have way to much invested in making games run good on consoles and Windows.


If steam comes to Linux, that could change.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

theubersmurf said:


> True.If steam comes to Linux, that could change.



Its coming to Linux due to Steam box. But that means you will have the source engine and a bunch of indie games. AAA titles will remain DX driven.


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## lilhasselhoffer (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> They are also closing it to deter piracy. I have no issue with it because I pay for everything. I guess its ok for Apple and Valve but not MS?



I can get behind most of what you say, but this is absolute crap.

I bought a Sony cd, and it installed a rootkit on my computer.  I legally paid for my content, but still got the raw end of the deal.


Windows 8 is an attempt to merge the OS for several devices, close the doors to outside developers, monetize everything, and make it all so seamless that most consumers don't realize what it going on.  Newell can see this as a logical extension of the GFWL mentality, whereby MS gets a chunk of all sales and does little work for this extra money.  Conversely, Steam made this mentality possible by proving that transparent DRM integration was acceptable to the consumers.

I don't like where things are going.  Valve is stating the obvious, that MS closing off their systems is bad for all types of developers.  Newell pointing out the obvious is nothing new, so why is this a big deal.  It'll be November before EA makes a similar statement, but they will.  I'm looking forward to the day that most consumers are forced out of Windows, by the slipshod practices of MS.  By then Linux should be truly user friendly and easy to adopt for most consumers.  MS will be moaning about their lost sales (due to ...piracy...), can't you see it already...?


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> I can get behind most of what you say, but this is absolute crap.
> 
> I bought a Sony cd, and it installed a rootkit on my computer.  I legally paid for my content, but still got the raw end of the deal.
> 
> ...



Not a chance in hell. MS and Sony both make consoles. As long as they are the main players in the game ports will ALWAYS be for Windows and not Linux. Also Windows is industry standard for 99% of ALL business operations in the world.


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## rodrigox (Jul 26, 2012)

Looks like Windows 7 is gonna have a long life!!


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## robal (Jul 26, 2012)

W1zzard said:


> Gabe just wants to promote his closed-source Linux DRM, so he can make more billions



I'm happy for him to do that. As long as it helps Ubuntu/Linux gain more popularity.


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## VulkanBros (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Not a chance in hell. MS and Sony both make consoles. As long as they are the main players in the game ports will ALWAYS be for Windows and not Linux. Also Windows is industry standard for 99% of ALL business operations in the world.



99% - that must be desktop office and home users? that is some, I admit........

Where I come from, 90% of the production enviroments are running UNIX or Linux adaptions.

Why? - Stability, speed and the option to fine tune things your self - ohh and then some more stability. - and not some fancy GUI - tablet's or not - I don´t really care....


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## NinkobEi (Jul 26, 2012)

It sounds like he is worried about windows monopolizing the online game distribution market. If they really are including their own built-in version of steam with every single windows distribution. It Reeks of the whole "Internet Explorer v Netscape" anti-trust suit where Micro$oft ended up paying billions, since having the service built-in discourages alternatives to standard non-power users.

And it sounds like MS will be making it more difficult to code a program like Steam. Maybe making it run less effectively/efficiently, requiring more resources. That would certainly be grounds for anti-trust.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

VulkanBros said:


> 99% - that must be desktop office and home users? that is some, I admit........
> 
> Where I come from, 90% of the production enviroments are running UNIX or Linux adaptions.
> 
> Why? - Stability, speed and the option to fine tune things your self - ohh and then some more stability. - and not some fancy GUI - tablet's or not - I don´t really care....



Linux is maybe 2% tops of the market. Granted 99% was a number I pulled out my ass but Ill bet you Windows controls the vast majority of the market. Well into the 60 percentile.



NinkobEi said:


> It sounds like he is worried about windows monopolizing the online game distribution market. If they really are including their own built-in version of steam with every single windows distribution. It Reeks of the whole "Internet Explorer v Netscape" anti-trust suit where Micro$oft ended up paying billions, since having the service built-in discourages alternatives to standard non-power users.



That whole suit was BS IMO.


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## Crap Daddy (Jul 26, 2012)

Well he might be up to something. Just tried to test Crysis 2 with high-res pack DX11, Steam game on Windows 8 RP. This is how it looks like: 







Have checked the web. There is no fix.


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## trickson (Jul 26, 2012)

Windows8 is more for phones than computers. Windows 8 sucks! I tried it out and man it looked like shit! Went back to windows7. IMHO, It will be some time before Micro$oft comes out with anything that will take it's place.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 26, 2012)

Crap Daddy said:


> Well he might be up to something. Just tried to test Crysis 2 with high-res pack DX11, Steam game on Windows 8 RP. This is how it looks like:
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/120726/Untitled.png
> 
> Have checked the web. There is no fix.



Do you have Photoshop CS5 or earlier? If so can you install it and let me know if it works?


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## Crap Daddy (Jul 26, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Do you have Photoshop CS5 or earlier? If so can you install it and let me know if it works?



Sorry, I don't. But apart from these problems I'm getting the hang of it. Coming from Vista on this rig 8 is flying. Just copied from an external Sammy HDD through e-sata onto my old internal HDD a large file and it maintained around 100MB write speed. (You know you can watch a real-time graph sgowing you the speed?)


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## DannibusX (Jul 27, 2012)

None of this is getting Half-Life 3 here any faster.


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## RoutedScripter (Jul 27, 2012)

Everyone's taking this out of context a bit

I'm all over the news, it's not about digital, it's more about how the OS sucks by it self.

Remember my prediction: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2455784&postcount=382

http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/search?q=windows+8


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## Depth (Jul 27, 2012)

Crap Daddy said:


> Sorry, I don't. But apart from these problems I'm getting the hang of it. Coming from Vista on this rig 8 is flying. Just copied from an external Sammy HDD through e-sata onto my old internal HDD a large file and it maintained around 100MB write speed. (You know you can watch a real-time graph sgowing you the speed?)



You... upgraded from Vista to Win 8?


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## lilhasselhoffer (Jul 27, 2012)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Not a chance in hell. MS and Sony both make consoles. As long as they are the main players in the game ports will ALWAYS be for Windows and not Linux. Also Windows is industry standard for 99% of ALL business operations in the world.



I don't get it.

Perhaps I'm stuck on an artificial number, but most businesses I know use a variant of Linux to run their server side.  The sheer cost of a Windows Server installation is daunting, unless you absolutely have to have it for your business.

As far as the desktop market, yeah.  MS wins the business desktop like a giant's foot wins against an ant.  The problem with all of this is that it doesn't address GAMING.  The point of the article, as I read it, was that a gaming industry giant is saying that their gaming platform was stretching out into Linux because they fear what Windows 8 spells.  


I don't care about business, because my business PC never sees gaming and might benefit from some of the Windows 8 changes.  I care about gaming because my 3930 is raring for something that challenges it, rather than an OS shackling to keep it down.


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## phanbuey (Jul 27, 2012)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> I don't get it.
> 
> Perhaps I'm stuck on an artificial number, but most businesses I know use a variant of Linux to run their server side.  The sheer cost of a Windows Server installation is daunting, unless you absolutely have to have it for your business.
> 
> ...



Yeah but most games will still be made for windows, and last time i checked DX 11 was way above and beyond anything that OpenGL had, so...  I do like that valve is branching out, but I dont see people switching over to linux for gaming or anything else any time soon.

What this guy doesnt mention, is that even with all of the problems with windows 8 UI (and people will always, and always have, bitch and moan about UI changes), Linux has massive driver issues with a huge variety of hardware - and the last thing anyone wants to do is to spend 4 hours on wikis trying to figure out why the OS goes into a kernel panic everytime they load up the linux version of Skyrim.

So... sorry Gabe, I dont see a linux distro challenging windows in gaming anytime soon.

And in any case, what will happen is that 8 will come out, bomb like vista, and then 9 will come out by the end of 2013 and everyone will pretend like it never happened, just like Win ME.


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## Crap Daddy (Jul 27, 2012)

Depth said:


> You... upgraded from Vista to Win 8?



No. I have a second machine that's running Vista Ultimate (OEM) 32 bit and after four years it was about time to do a clean install so I decided to give win 8  64 bit a run. On the main rig I have 7 (retail) and don't plan to change anything.


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## digibucc (Jul 27, 2012)

phanbuey said:


> Linux has massive driver issues with a huge variety of hardware - and the last thing anyone wants to do is to spend 4 hours on wikis trying to figure out why the OS goes into a kernel panic everytime they load up the linux version of Skyrim.



well i think the point is that with additional development and more companies interested it doesn't have to stay that way. will it? likely for the forseeable future, but it doesn't HAVE to.


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## phanbuey (Jul 27, 2012)

digibucc said:


> well i think the point is that with additional development and more companies interested it doesn't have to stay that way. will it? likely for the forseeable future, but it doesn't HAVE to.



right but it's a bit like a vicious cycle - adoption = more companies investing time = less driver issues. 

the fact that there are so few companies right now will keep adoption low.  it will have to take a huge push, maybe even for valve to come out with thier own blackbox linux pc/console thingy using standard parts to take off.


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## digibucc (Jul 27, 2012)

phanbuey said:


> right but it's a bit like a vicious cycle - adoption = more companies investing time = less driver issues.
> 
> the fact that there are so few companies right now will keep adoption low.  it will have to take a huge push, maybe even for valve to come out with thier own blackbox linux pc/console thingy using standard parts to take off.



true


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## Steevo (Jul 27, 2012)

Anyone can code DirectX or numerous other interfaces
Anyone can code C++ or numerous other languages. 


Windows has the market share, mature diver and hardware support, some cross-platform compatibility.


I believe with all the complaints about piracy this is both an attempt to start customers using a new layer of DRM, as well a stab in the dark at making a mediocre at best PC/Console hybrid to satisfy a minor hole in the market. 

What happens when you purchase one and three years later the eye candy gets reduced to eye cancer levels of AA/AF in order to run the next Crysis? PC, slap in new graphics card and you are off, new CPU. Slow load times, run SSD's, need huge storage, RAID HDD's. 

We are not at the point unless you are talking about Xbox 360 or PS3 level games that a PC will still NOT be able to decimate any console or hybrid unless they are specifically running forced optimizations for it, or pre-cooking scenery, and at that, why not do it on the PC as well and have yet again more detail?


No. I do not want your green eggs and ham.


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## theubersmurf (Jul 27, 2012)

I really don't think that the drivers will stay bad forever if Linux has substantial game distribution on it. I wouldn't be surprised if we see new Linux drivers released by AMD/invidia in the fairly near future in response to Valve's announcemnt.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 27, 2012)

trickson said:


> Windows8 is more for phones than computers. Windows 8 sucks! I tried it out and man it looked like shit! Went back to windows7. IMHO, It will be some time before Micro$oft comes out with anything that will take it's place.



you tried it out? For how long, most people who are saying Windows 8 will fail have used it for barely a day. I used it for a day, hated it, but kept using it and now I like it a lot more.


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## digibucc (Jul 27, 2012)

Steevo said:


> We are not at the point unless you are talking about Xbox 360 or PS3 level games that a PC will still NOT be able to decimate any console or hybrid unless they are specifically running forced optimizations for it, or pre-cooking scenery, and at that, why not do it on the PC as well and have yet again more detail?



not with 360 or ps3, but the next generations? very possibly. it happens for a time with every console generation. what makes it different now is the advent of cloud computing. you can bet microsoft and sony will be taking advantage of it in their new consoles, which will give those consoles a much longer lifespan at a lower price-point.

when you consider the fact that probably 80% of people with a desktop or even laptop don't do anything more than basic web browsing and media playing - a console will cover that. you will only need a desktop to do real work, which even that is getting easier on tablets, ultrabooks, and all in ones.

the computer is at the point where it doesn't have to be relegated to the nerd anymore. it doesn't have to be custom built or even that special to handle everything someone would throw at it. to me this means the desktop will go the way of commercial hardware: a small subset of users will own it but the vast majority will be using new technology instead, as they adopt of course.




nvidiaintelftw said:


> I used it for a day, hated it, but kept using it and now I like it a lot more.



i only used it for a day or two. I liked some changes, but specifically hate the metro screen. if it's really as cheap to upgrade from 7 as they are hinting, i am sure i will: however i do not think windows 8 is as big of a deal as windows 7 was over vista, or xp over 98, etc.


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## phanbuey (Jul 27, 2012)

nvidiaintelftw said:


> you tried it out? For how long, most people who are saying Windows 8 will fail have used it for barely a day. I used it for a day, hated it, but kept using it and now I like it a lot more.



When the ribbon for microsoft office came out, people had full blown melt-downs.

Now everyone uses the ribbon and they love it.  I think that this is a bit of a knee-jerk statement from Gabe.  Especially given the fact that the OS is supposed to be faster and lighter than 7.


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## lilhasselhoffer (Jul 27, 2012)

phanbuey said:


> Yeah but most games will still be made for windows, and last time i checked DX 11 was way above and beyond anything that OpenGL had, so...  I do like that valve is branching out, but I dont see people switching over to linux for gaming or anything else any time soon.
> 
> What this guy doesn't mention, is that even with all of the problems with windows 8 UI (and people will always, and always have, bitch and moan about UI changes), Linux has massive driver issues with a huge variety of hardware - and the last thing anyone wants to do is to spend 4 hours on wikis trying to figure out why the OS goes into a kernel panic everytime they load up the linux version of Skyrim.



1) Most games currently being released to multiple platforms are based upon DX9.  Consoles, at least current generation, don't have DX11 support.
2) The XBOX and PS3 are basically just crappy computers.  They stream media, play games, and have limited internet access.  PCs do all of this, and can be used for productivity.  The fact that the next XBOX is going (if rumors and patent applications can be believed) to have hardware expandability kinda seems to agree with this theory.
3) Skyrim has enough problems on Windows.  Console to PC changeovers are always rough, whether they be to Windows or Linux is little indication of how smooth the experience will be.  Monthly and weekly patches of games proves out this point.
4) Serious?  Most developers use a packaged engine, with their own graphical models, textures, and relative physics.  If somebody created an Unreal engine for OpenGL there's no reason that developers couldn't utilize it.  There needs to be a market for Linux games first though...




phanbuey said:


> So... sorry Gabe, I dont see a linux distro challenging windows in gaming anytime soon.
> 
> And in any case, what will happen is that 8 will come out, bomb like vista, and then 9 will come out by the end of 2013 and everyone will pretend like it never happened, just like Win ME.



Fair point.  Linux might not challenge MS for average consumers in the next five years.  How about ten?  Fifteen?  Linux is getting better, and the lack of a cost to entry is a boon in the parts (read: most) of the world that could use computers but can't afford Windows.

As far as the Windows 9 idea, I'm on that band wagon.  Every other OS from MS sucks the chrome off of bumpers.  I'm hoping that 9 is a worth while upgrade.


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## NinkobEi (Jul 27, 2012)

As long as MS offers an upgrade to Windows 8 for $30 like they did with Win7, I'm all aboard. But to hell with paying full retail price for it.


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## phanbuey (Jul 27, 2012)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> 3) Skyrim has enough problems on Windows.  Console to PC changeovers are always rough, whether they be to Windows or Linux is little indication of how smooth the experience will be.  Monthly and weekly patches of games proves out this point.



All that proves is that there are also bugs with the game engines in the process of porting.  But I'm not talking about the game engine bugs... im talking about driver issues...the interaction of the hardware with the game.  

Which we all know, when a new game comes out Nvidia and AMD are racing to get the drivers down, because otherwise there are a bunch of  'my screen goes blank when I launch BF3' support tickets.  That ain't a problem with the engine.  THAT is where linux will fall flat on its face.

Linus Torvalds calling nVidia a bunch of a$$*** is a great indication of where linux is in relation to widespread driver support today.  

At the end of the day it comes down to money.  Right now, linux (on the desktop PC) = bunch of people who do this as a hobby and have day jobs.  Until that changes, and valve comes out with a Steam Linux distro and dedicates a BUNCH of people to supporting it, everything will stay windows.


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