# Darth Flatulence the second



## zekrahminator (Feb 22, 2007)

Well guys, I thought I'd spread the news today...Darth Flatulence is starting to have motherboard problems (various issues connection to things like hard drives/ optical drives). And as you know, that means that Darth Flatulence isn't rock-hard stable anymore. I told my dad (who has alot of important stuff on that computer), and he agreed that we need to replace Darth Flatulence. This gives me some choices...
A- Accept his offer for my box for $500 USD (see specs under avatar).

B- Ask him to pay for new rig for $750 (I'll explain specs if you really want, will have Vista, 1GB RAM, 7100GS, A64 3800 AM2).

C- See if I can find any deals on s939 parts, and effectively move Darth Flatulences copy of XP to that computer (reformat/reinstall is out of the question, considering all the important documents and pictures on that computer). 


Thoughts/comments?


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## pt (Feb 22, 2007)

(a) 500€ only?
(b) 7100gs - wtf?
(c) nah


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## pt (Feb 22, 2007)

russianboy said:


> Yeah, don't use a legal OS, saves money.



that also, m$ already has too much money


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## zekrahminator (Feb 22, 2007)

Oh, this isn't for me, Darth Flatulence the second would be for stability and power...it wouldn't see many games other than the occasional flash-based one. And PT, that's 500 *dollars*... I wish it was euros, they're worth more . I'm liking A at this point, I get $500 in the bank, I'm forced to spend less time on the computer, and I'm that much closer to getting my drivers license.


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## pt (Feb 22, 2007)

sell your (a) get a am2 based system

ps: keep the gfx, and ask more than 500$ 

edit:
sell mobo+cpu+ram+hdd = 400$

buy:
AMD AM2 Athlon 64 3200+ - 75$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819103637

mushkin (2 x 512MB) DDR2 667 with EPP Profile Dual Channel Kit - 147,99$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820146092

DFI INFINITY NF SLI-M2 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX - 94,99$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813136021

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 200GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s - 70.99$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148146

for 388.97$ 
spend the 12$ on a very cheap gfx for yours dad pc


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## zekrahminator (Feb 22, 2007)

Well, it's not really worth more than $500, especially when you factor in the "dad paid for monitor and XP" factor. 
Case- $70
PSU- $40
CPU- $90
CPU cooler- $10
VGA- $100
VGA cooler- $30
RAM- $100
hard drive- $40
Soundblaster- $20
DVD-RW- $30

Oh wait yes it is, math says $530, but then again that would be brand-spanking new.


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## pt (Feb 22, 2007)

forget the mobo 
and convince dad to pay more


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## zekrahminator (Feb 22, 2007)

Thanks, that's another $60....$590 would be a sweet price to get for this thing, but it is a bit used, I'll be happy with $500.


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## pt (Feb 22, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> Thanks, that's another $60....$590 would be a sweet price to get for this thing, but it is a bit used, I'll be happy with $500.



used? nah
isn't the psu, mobo and cpu new?  (or almost)


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## zekrahminator (Feb 22, 2007)

Just about everything is recent, Not a thing in the box much more than a year old, graphics card just turned a year old .


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## pt (Feb 22, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> Just about everything is recent, Not a thing in the box much more than a year old, graphics card just turned a year old .



sell the mobo+ram+cpu+hdd+(buy a cheap gfx) 
and get the parts i posted


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## PVTCaboose1337 (Feb 22, 2007)

Thats pretty easy...  bargin w/ your dad for more!


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## Ketxxx (Feb 22, 2007)

$500 is nowhere near enough for your system, $800 or so would be more realistic. Just gotta break it down to see that. Deffinately dont take less than $650.


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## zekrahminator (Feb 22, 2007)

Well, my parents bought XP and the monitor, so...that's a good chunk of the system.


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## Ketxxx (Feb 22, 2007)

well, that amounts to like $200 or so tops. Best thing would be to see just what you can buy for $500, which tbh, probably isnt that much given you would have to squeez a monitor into that.


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## zekrahminator (Feb 22, 2007)

Mmhmm, I see what you mean, a fresh AM2 system with 7300GT would cost roughly $600 with the parts I'd be able to play with...I'll just pocket the cash, work a bit, save more cash, get my drivers license, and then see where I am financially/part-wise. I only "need" one computer, but I certainly want like five .


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## Ketxxx (Feb 22, 2007)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138026 $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103639 $65
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820220066 $67
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130075 $70 after MIR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144415 $53
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106041 $29
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811164040 $25
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817170017 $30
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824179029 $157

Thats about as low as it gets without it being junk thats bought.


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## Alcpone (Feb 22, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> Well guys, I thought I'd spread the news today...Darth Flatulence is starting to have motherboard problems (various issues connection to things like hard drives/ optical drives). And as you know, that means that Darth Flatulence isn't rock-hard stable anymore. I told my dad (who has alot of important stuff on that computer), and he agreed that we need to replace Darth Flatulence. This gives me some choices...
> A- Accept his offer for my box for $500 USD (see specs under avatar).
> 
> B- Ask him to pay for new rig for $750 (I'll explain specs if you really want, will have Vista, 1GB RAM, 7100GS, A64 3800 AM2).
> ...



Get your important data backed up, imagine if the hard disk decided to explode 1 day, I know you think its fine but things do happen now and again! Get a new mobo for it and keep your system for school! You will miss it if you sell it, even though it will still be in your house, im sure it will be moved from where it is now, i.e your bedroom!


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## technicks (Feb 22, 2007)

The first thing to do is change the name of your rig.


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## zekrahminator (Feb 22, 2007)

Ha ha very funny, I think I found a better solution for all parties 'cept me (I could certainly use that $500). The only thing broken in Darth Flatulence is the motherboard. That means fully operational processor, IDE drives, PSU, RAM, and VGA. Like anyone's going to use a P3 for anything other than a linux server anymore. I'll sell the PC133 RAM sometime, and might yank out the P3 later. The motherboard is riveted into the case (stupid Gateway), so using that case is out. Replace case with $40 thing with free shipping. Still need new motherboard, RAM, and processor. If I use the right AM2 motherboard, I can keep my AGP 6200. If I get this $50 Biostar motherboard, I can use all my IDE drives and my 6200. I also save $5 on a $65 A64 3000. I then replace the RAM with a gig of nice $75 GEIL DDR2 667, and I have something that'll turn on. And because CRT monitors suck so much, why not upgrade to a $160 17" Viewsonic? A complete rebuild of Darth Flatulence (no more Vista ) now costs $400. You'll see the remainder of the parts in the BSTG threads later .


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## zekrahminator (Feb 24, 2007)

Heh heh, trying to keep Darth Flatulence working is starting to feel more like plugging holes in a sinking ship. Linux installation attempts result in the inabliity to mount drives/read installation media (trust me, it's not the disk). Add this to random and unpredictable "black screen" crashes, and the motherboard is definitely going out....unless of course all my IDE drives just so happen to be going out at the exact same time.


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## zekrahminator (Mar 3, 2007)

Mmkay, my parents and I have agreed it's time to replace Darth Flatulence. 

The replacement will be called either "Refried" or "Nessie". 
-Gigabyte mATX motherboard using Intel 865G chipset
-1GB DDR RAM
-Intel Pentium 4 631 (3GHz, 65nm)
-Some cheap case, free shipping 
-The whole thing will use the 17" LCD that I'm using right now, while I get a brand new 19" widescreen . My dad only asked for $100 for the $180 monitor...now THAT's a good deal.


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## pt (Mar 3, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> Mmkay, my parents and I have agreed it's time to replace Darth Flatulence.
> 
> The replacement will be called either "Refried" or "Nessie".
> -Gigabyte mATX motherboard using Intel 865G chipset
> ...



p4....... 
 

how much did it cost?


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## zekrahminator (Mar 3, 2007)

The whole kit was around $245, add monitor and the cost was around $430.

Edit: 
I can understand why many of you are going . I'm trying to build a family-friendly and reliable computer for the rest of my family, while keeping the gaming rig for myself. 19" widescreen with 5ms response times mmmm . Besides, once I get the Prescott installed, Darth Flatulence will have really warm exhaust .


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## pt (Mar 3, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> The whole kit was around $245, add monitor and the cost was around $430.
> 
> Edit:
> I can understand why many of you are going . I'm trying to build a family-friendly and reliable computer for the rest of my family, while keeping the gaming rig for myself. 19" widescreen with 5ms response times mmmm . Besides, once I get the Prescott installed, Darth Flatulence will have really warm exhaust .



wich prescott? 
and no p4 is a family-friendly, at least you should have wen't with d805


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## BXtreme (Mar 3, 2007)

agreed, pd's come in gd prices  then y p4 ?


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## zekrahminator (Mar 3, 2007)

I went with the P4 because....
It was cheap
It was 65nm
I ain't looking to build for games, I'm looking to build for reliability. 
The 65nm P4's fix the heat problems very nicely, and yes I know they don't hold a candle to A64.


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## pt (Mar 3, 2007)

couldn't you get a athlon 64 for cheaper?
and btw, that 631 isn't a prescott, i don't remenber the code name, and don't wan't to search for it


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## zekrahminator (Mar 3, 2007)

Trust me PT, I searched long and hard for A64. The P4 631 was $75, the A64 3000 was $65. So I took a look at motherboard support for the rest of the system (I can't afford to upgrade anything other than the core parts). The results...s754 had some old Nforce3's in stock, s939 had my old ASRock mobo out of stock, and AM2 had some crappy VIA chipset in everything AGP. I do a quick search of Intel things that hold AGP, and voila, Intel 865G chipset saves the day. 

If I had the option to switch to PCI Express, I'd be joining that AM2 club of yours PT .


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## pt (Mar 3, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> Trust me PT, I searched long and hard for A64. The P4 631 was $75, the A64 3000 was $65. So I took a look at motherboard support for the rest of the system (I can't afford to upgrade anything other than the core parts). The results...s754 had some old Nforce3's in stock, s939 had my old ASRock mobo out of stock, and AM2 had some crappy VIA chipset in everything AGP. I do a quick search of Intel things that hold AGP, and voila, Intel 865G chipset saves the day.
> 
> If I had the option to switch to PCI Express, I'd be joining that AM2 club of yours PT .



why don't go with integrated gfx?
give me the shop, where you going to buy the stuff, and budget, and i will get rid of that p4 for you


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## craigo (Mar 10, 2007)

I would possibly look at a different mainboard, sounds like flatulence is suffering teh gigabyte disease.....i smoked two intel based gigabyte boards in teh 478 days and thus dont touch them any more....maybe try for an asus or if its build quality and stability not features that you want buy a genuine intel board..


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## zekrahminator (Mar 10, 2007)

Too late . 


Greetings from Darth Flatulence the second. The Gigabyte wonderboard booted up the very second I pressed the power button, no errors whatsoever. The Corsair budget RAM works fine, and the case is easy to work with (but flimsy). The Pentium 4 Cedar Mill is AMAZING, runs about 25C on a normal day with tons of tasks running in the background. And the overall system responsiveness is way the fuck up....best $400 I've ever (asked my parents very nicely to) spend.


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## ex_reven (Mar 11, 2007)

lucky you
my old prescott is soooo slow

lucky its at school
collecting dust for when i feel the need to blast music through the art block


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## Eric_Cartman (Mar 12, 2007)

so he is on a P3 right now?

why not just build him a cheap semperon machine?

that is what i would do


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## Chewy (Mar 12, 2007)

Check out his last posts he´ll explain why he picked a p4 631. 29, 31 and 34.


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## WeStSiDePLaYa (Mar 12, 2007)

Ketxxx said:


> $500 is nowhere near enough for your system, $800 or so would be more realistic. Just gotta break it down to see that. Deffinately dont take less than $650.



Are you kidding me? 500$ is more than reasonable.

All of that stuff is dirt cheap now.

Cpu-40$
Mobo-50$
Ram-75$
GFX-75$
PSU-30$
Case-55$
HDD-40$
Soundcard-10$
DVD-15$
LCD-90$
O/S-No Value

TOTAL:480$

Also, Im being pretty generous here as well. 

Its a 939 system,  its DDR1, its a small HDD, a small slow LCD, an old sound card, its single core.

Dualcore AM2's are very cheap, as in 85$ new for the 3600+ X2. Motherboards are also extremely cheap. You can get 250GB hard drives for 60$ new.

That video card is very old and slow. And doesnt support SM3.0. Then consider you can get the 7600GT for 100$ new, and the 7900GS for 150$ new.

Then the ram is only DDR1, and only 1GB, which is not up to par these days.

The LCD is only 17", which is small, and 12ms response time, which isnt fast enough for gaming.

DVD drives, dirt cheap, sound blasters, dirt cheap, TT psu's dirt cheap. 


So, ive shown you my reasoning and price break down, lets see how you reach this "realistic 800$"


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## ex_reven (Mar 12, 2007)

WeStSiDePLaYa said:


> 12ms response time, which isnt fast enough for gaming.



Since when?


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## Easy Rhino (Mar 12, 2007)

good job! looks like you found the best solution for the best price. your parents should be happy with what you built them.


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## WeStSiDePLaYa (Mar 12, 2007)

ex_reven said:


> Since when?



Since 12ms has been 12ms. 

12ms leaves horrible trails. Playing any game with fast action is headache inducing.

Even 8ms isnt fast enough to have a constantly sharp image.


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## ex_reven (Mar 12, 2007)

are you sure?

ive never heard anyone complain about it.

btw did you mean Black to Black or Grey to Grey?
this difference in refresh rate measurement can make or break the spec


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## WeStSiDePLaYa (Mar 12, 2007)

ex_reven said:


> are you sure?
> 
> ive never heard anyone complain about it.
> 
> ...



Are you kidding me? There was tons of people speaking of it when it was still an issue, but most people now know better. Some simple research can show you the issues, and no I wont provide you with it.

And WTF are you talking about? When did I mention refresh rate? I said RESPONSE TIME, refresh rate is measured in Hz, and is not directly related to response time.

If you think response time, and refresh rate are the same, Im not even going to bother continuing this talk.


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## ex_reven (Mar 12, 2007)

Refresh rate is the exact same thing as response time. They simply apply to different methods of activating and deactivating pixels, in this case CRT and LCD monitors. And yes they are related and CAN be compared. Hertz is a measurement of electromagnetic impulse frequency which on the simplest level is a measurement of time an impulse spends from one "off" to the end of one "on" stage. Just as milleseconds is a measurement of the time a pixel, i.e. a photon of light AKA a form of electromagnetic impulse, takes to go from inactive, to active and back to inactive.

And no, simple research doesnt show me the issues because google aint my friend.


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## WeStSiDePLaYa (Mar 12, 2007)

ex_reven said:


> Refresh rate is the exact same thing as response time. They simply apply to different methods of activating and deactivating pixels, in this case CRT and LCD monitors. And yes they are related and CAN be compared. Hertz is a measurement of electromagnetic impulse frequency which on the simplest level is a measurement of time an impulse spends from one "off" to the end of one "on" stage. Just as milleseconds is a measurement of the time a pixel, i.e. a photon of light AKA a form of electromagnetic impulse, takes to go from inactive, to active and back to inactive.
> 
> And no, simple research doesnt show me the issues because google aint my friend.



You, are an idiot.

Refresh rate and response time are not the same.

Provide me one link that shows others, and Ill show you ten to support that they are different.

Also, you do realize that I know your spurting out big words that you dont fully understand, so you can attempt to look smart.

For one, a pixel is not a photon of light, like you have stated, also, a photon of light is not and electromagnetic impulse.

Simply put, Refresh rate is how many times a second the entire image is updated.

Response time is how long an individual pixel takes to change once its charge has been updated.

And since you claim that "Refresh rate is the exact same thing as response time."

That would mean that changing the refresh rate would change the response time. Since you claim they are the same, that means a LCD panel running at a refresh rate of 75hz, would have a response time of 0.8ms.(since Hz is number of cycles/second, and 60 ms in a second 60ms/75=0.8ms)

Which is untrue. So please explain to me how "Refresh rate is the exact same thing as response time."

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/specs.htm

Theres a start for your reading.


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## BXtreme (Mar 12, 2007)

I quite agree on this one.
BUT, response time mostly matters when playing games at high fps. For normal use 8ms is sorta ok, but 12ms it too horrible


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## ex_reven (Mar 12, 2007)

WeStSiDePLaYa said:


> You, are an idiot.
> 
> Also, you do realize that I know your spurting out big words that you dont fully understand, so you can attempt to look smart.
> 
> For one, a pixel is not a photon of light, like you have stated, also, a photon of light is not and electromagnetic impulse.



Someone skipped science.

A pixel is shown by a photon of light on a specific spot on the screen.

Also for your information, light IS electromagnetic energy as i stated earlier, which you did not read...

oh and look its even handily described on wikipedia

"*Light* is *electromagnetic radiation* with a wavelength that is visible to the eye (visible light) or, in a technical or scientific context, electromagnetic radiation of any wavelength. The elementary particle that defines light is the *photon*." 

and just in case you cant link the dots

"*Radiation* in physics, is the process of emitting *energy*"



> That would mean that changing the refresh rate would change the response time. Since you claim they are the same



Incorrect, as they are a non interchangable technology. I DID however say that they could be compared in terms of the measurement of electrical impulses/frames.

To quote my original post:


> Refresh rate is the exact same thing as response time.



I agree that i am incorrect on the account of "exactness".

However Im not wrong on the below information. Which you said "response time is not directly related to refresh rate"
In which I see it is, since the  energy/impulses/electromagnetic radiation or ANY term you care to use can be measured and related in some way shape or form.



> They simply apply to different methods of activating and deactivating pixels, in this case CRT and LCD monitors. And yes they are related and CAN be compared. Hertz is a measurement of electromagnetic impulse frequency which on the simplest level is a measurement of time an impulse spends from one "off" to the end of one "on" stage. Just as milleseconds is a measurement of the time a pixel, i.e. a photon of light AKA a form of electromagnetic impulse, takes to go from inactive, to active and back to inactive.


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## zekrahminator (Mar 12, 2007)

Guys, you are seriously not fighting about *monitors*. 

Westsideplaya, you're right, my computer isn't worth the full $800. However, my decision is my decision, and I'm extremely happy with the P4 631 I got, with a gig of DDR1, a case, and the only AGP/DDR motherboard that supports Core 2 Duo. Now the next person that I catch fighting about monitors is going to take a half-day break from TPU.


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## BXtreme (Mar 12, 2007)

hey zek, how is it performing btw ?


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## zekrahminator (Mar 12, 2007)

Well, basically, my games actually run, and most of them at high settings  (6200 is kinda holding it back a bit).


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## BXtreme (Mar 12, 2007)

which games ?


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## zekrahminator (Mar 12, 2007)

Halo, UT2004, and soon Half Life 2 .


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## BXtreme (Mar 12, 2007)

if those @least 'Run' then you've made a gd deal


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## ex_reven (Mar 12, 2007)

zekrahminator said:


> Guys, you are seriously not fighting about *monitors*.



LOL....good point


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## BXtreme (Mar 12, 2007)

Offtopic: The users of the soprano case, pls do tell me if it's gd or not, I was thinking of buying it


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## ex_reven (Mar 12, 2007)

pinchy has one...

i hate the stupid USB port on the top of it... so gay :shadedshu


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## BXtreme (Mar 12, 2007)

ex_reven said:


> pinchy has one...
> 
> i hate the stupid USB port on the top of it... so gay :shadedshu



agreed, who would use usb on top ? Front is the best place for it, maybe a little lower.
It's fan colours and nice layout impressed me  My 2nd rig needs a case, maybe this one 
Edit : I liked this case so much, i already put it in my specs


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## zekrahminator (Mar 12, 2007)

I have the soprano . 

The front fan has dust filters, and is set up so that it really doesn't move that much air. The PCI bracket is weak, and you'll find yourself replacing it with trusty old screws. 

However, remember the spacers, don't scratch it, and you'll love it. dual 120mm fans are wonderful, that hard drive rack is nice, the tooless installation of everything except PCI devices is brilliant, and most of all the case is VERY QUIET. You won't regret buying that case .


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## ex_reven (Mar 12, 2007)

http://www.bit-tech.net/modding/2006/02/22/CMStacker_830/1.html





zekrahminator said:


> dual 120mm fans are wonderful...the tooless installation of everything except PCI devices is brilliant



Try 9 120mm fans WITH toolless installation for the fans


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## BXtreme (Mar 12, 2007)

thx 4 the info , as per it's price it's awesome  Aren't it's fans orange ? Quite matches the black themed case. It also has a side panel, which makes me go4 it. I'll surely get it, but after a week...w00t, soprano coming


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## BXtreme (Mar 12, 2007)

ex_reven said:


> http://www.bit-tech.net/modding/2006/02/22/CMStacker_830/1.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...



err...too pricey for me


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## ex_reven (Mar 12, 2007)

BXtreme said:


> err...too pricey for me


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## BXtreme (Mar 12, 2007)

ex_reven said:


>



I WAS thinking about that case, but so much for a case seemed unfair, somehow...
I always see the price/performance ratio  i.e nice hardware that are adjusted to their rightful prices.


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## ex_reven (Mar 12, 2007)

look, shutup and let me cry in peace, ok ?


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## BXtreme (Mar 12, 2007)

ok,  as you wish


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## pt (Mar 12, 2007)

BXtreme said:


> ok,  as you wish



take a look at the aerocool aeroengine 2 
great case, and great airflow


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## Batou1986 (Mar 12, 2007)

i recently built a C2D system for a friend with the black soprano case with no side window it looks nice and is very roomy and super light has decent airflow only thing is its fragile if i where to say drop a 2 liter on it it would leave a huge dent and its shiny paint takes to fingerprints and smudges real well which is why i like the matrix case i got cause its .20mm steel and its matte paint and best the whole front is meshed filtered steel which means GREAT airflow


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## craigo (Mar 12, 2007)

it has been my experience that the cheapest coolermaster will be better built than the best thermaltake....having said that i have never owned a Tt case (a few mates have though)
try and get your hands on the cases in question at your local retailer (then purchase cheaper wherever) to get a feel for build quality and go with what you can live with day to day.


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## BXtreme (Mar 12, 2007)

Here's my case budget though and constraints-
Under 100$
Side panel-Yes
Brands- Cooler Master, Thermaltake, Antec.
Beautiful- A must! lol
With any PSU-Yes (i'll exchange lol, i.e 400w give => 600w take=minimal charges paid)
Any reckons ?
My current rig has a 600W psu, but it's dying  I'll choose psu later.


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