# Very limited choice to buy a Router



## Black Panther (May 25, 2008)

And I know about routers like I know how to speak chinese...

I have a 2Mbps connection, I want something which doesn't slow that down, is easy to install and versatile in that it can have my rig in my specs and a 333Mhz Celeron (using Windows XP as well) use the same connection (I can get the Celeron connect on its own) etc...

Here are the choices I have:

http://www.mmd-trading.com/index.php?p=prod_det.php&cat_code=WRL&prod_code=BLW-54MR
http://scanmalta.com/item.php?WebCategory=WIRELESS&ProductCode=WIR-L20328
http://scanmalta.com/item.php?WebCategory=WIRELESS&ProductCode=WIR-L18183
http://scanmalta.com/item.php?WebCategory=WIRELESS&ProductCode=WIR-L17614


Should I just go for the cheapest one or is there more stuff one should look into before deciding?


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## mrhuggles (May 25, 2008)

those will all crash under normal use, you have been warned, you can find alot of good info around other posts in this forum, really great info too


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## AsRock (May 26, 2008)

Go wired if your a gamer.


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## lemonadesoda (May 26, 2008)

Try to keep the MODEM and the ROUTER separate. Why?

1./ Typically more reliable
2./ You can upgrade the modem in the future without having to change the router
3./ "Consumer" devices are the modem-router-wireless all in ones. They try to do too much with flakey firmware and under-powered emebdded processors.
4./ Enterprise setups use separate devices, ie Modem + router + access point as separate boxes.  There's a reason they do this. And I recommend that approach.

My setup: "basic modem" from t-online, "business router" Netgear FVL328, "business AP" Netgear WG302. EUR 5 + 25 + 45 = EUR 75

Works 100%. No crashes. No freezes. Top speed.

All bought on ebay.


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## mrhuggles (May 26, 2008)

http://www.amazon.com/review/produc...pr_redirect/105-0346746-7688444&tag=tec06d-20

they ever get that fixed?


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## Triprift (May 26, 2008)

Im not sure if ya got em in Europe but id reccomend this not so beautiful to look at but supa reliable and easy to set up one http://www.scorptec.com.au/product/17318/


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## mrhuggles (May 26, 2008)

http://203.147.133.62/forum-replies-archive.cfm/715516.html

have those issues been fixed yet?


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## Triprift (May 26, 2008)

A couple of my mates use that one and as far as i no thay havnt had any real probs with it so dunno. Interesting thread man im a member of whirlpool but never saw that one


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## mrhuggles (May 26, 2008)

there are hundreds of different threads about it all around the internet

i am always on the look out for consumer routers that done have extreme issues, especialy with being used!!!!

if you know of any let me know, the only thing i can find is like, openWRT, or DD-WRT is pretty good, ive heard a few good things about a couple other opensource or third party programs, but even the routers that come with linux seem to have really bad issues when you use them hard enough, my openWRT never has any issues at all what so ever


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## lemonadesoda (May 26, 2008)

mrhuggles said:


> http://www.amazon.com/review/produc...pr_redirect/105-0346746-7688444&tag=tec06d-20
> 
> they ever get that fixed?


RE: Netgear FVL328
Yep, you'll have to go back to first firmware release 2003 to get complaints like that.  The v2.xx firmware is rock solid. I wouldnt be recommending it, from experience, unless I meant it. But yes, it seems to have had a terrible reputation on launch, with the early beta software.

However, it is (now) a classy product at a dirt cheap price. I also recommend the FVS338 and FVS336G. I think one of the reasons that the FVL328 is so cheap... and yet has such a high specification... is exactly due to the "launch reputation kill".  And now, in 2008, people still see those 2003 reviews with the beta firmware, and stay away from the product. Trust me, its good.

Lots of people recommend the linksys. I have no experience wth it, or installing mod firmware. For stock firmware the Netgear Pro Safes are top. The netgear consumer is BS. The only warning with the linksys is... be careful on the model number. Some dont take the mod firmware.


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## Cybrnook2002 (May 26, 2008)

This what im using and I love it. Sturdy and port forwarded correctly for torrents. Its limited to G, but I dont have any draft N cards yet anyways. Plus its cheap.
http://reviews.cnet.com/routers/d-link-di-524/4505-3319_7-30839580.html

Im also in Europe, you can pick one of these up for about 20 - 30 euros


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## mrhuggles (May 26, 2008)

there was a reason i posted that particular link :?


 Chicken writes...

Why don't you load 3.29u and see if it is still as stable. Come on, take one for the team 

er..that is what I have -> 3.29u.
Do you mean another f/w version? I'm happy to try it  if you can direct me to another version that is stable...

Do you know if there is a particular reason I cant connect thru PPPoA? or is that just ISP specific? 





lemonadesoda said:


> Yep, you'll have to go back to first firmware release 2003 to get complaints like that.  The v2.xx firmware is rock solid. I wouldnt be recommending it, from experience, unless I meant it. But yes, it seems to have had a terrible reputation on launch, with the early beta software.
> 
> However, it is (now) a classy product at a dirt cheap price. I also recommend the FVS338 and FVS336G. I think one of the reasons that the FVL328 is so cheap... and yet has such a high specification... is exactly due to the "launch reputation kill".  And now, in 2008, people still see those 2003 reviews with the beta firmware, and stay away from the product. Trust me, its good.
> 
> Lots of people recommend the linksys. I have no experience wth it, or installing mod firmware. For stock firmware the Netgear Pro Safes are top. The netgear consumer is BS. The only warning with the linksys is... be careful on the model number. Some dont take the mod firmware.


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## mrhuggles (May 26, 2008)

http://reviews.pricegrabber.com/wireless-networking/m/2411131/ut=4722b41dd5633659
over the years these problems have been fixed with newer firmware releases?




Cybrnook2002 said:


> This what im using and I love it. Sturdy and port forwarded correctly for torrents. Its limited to G, but I dont have any draft N cards yet anyways. Plus its cheap.
> http://reviews.cnet.com/routers/d-link-di-524/4505-3319_7-30839580.html
> 
> Im also in Europe, you can pick one of these up for about 20 - 30 euros


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## Black Panther (May 27, 2008)

I appreciate the feedback however I sooo don't know anything about routers that I didn't understand half of what was posted. I never had a router, never even seen one and how it works... 

What does it mean keeping router and modem separate?

Wired router? So the ones I posted were all wire-less?

Apologies for the n00bness again.

Maybe I should do a re-wording of what I need:

I have my rig in system specs. It's connected to the internet through an external DSL modem at 2Mbps speed.

Then in another room like ~40 or ~50 feet away I have an old Celeron 333Mhz using XP. I've connected it to the internet, using the same modem I use for my rig. But that means I have to unplug and carry the modem over to that other pc to get online from there. And obviously in the meantime I can't get online from my rig... because the modem is in use elsewhere...
*
I want something which will enable me to use the same internet connection, on 2 separate pc's, at the same time.*
I do some light online gaming on mine (mainly RTS games like Settlers VI though in the future I think I'll increase online gaming). The other pc will mainly be playing flash-games on cartoonnetwork and that kind of stuff.

I wouldn't bother if the router isn't pretty or anything (though I'd be preferring something black with blue lights ) or whether it's wired or wireless (might be a problem running a 40-50ft cable from one room along corridor into another room..)

What I want is that my internet speeds remain as they are now. I wouldn't mind if the other pc has somewhat slower speed, well I think kiddo wouldn't be analyzing the difference 



mrhuggles said:


> those will all crash under normal use, you have been warned



Your comment worried me  If something crashes _under normal use_ then it shouldn't be on the market at all as I understand it, otherwise what use are they for?

I can order something from Overclockers UK.

If my speed is only 2Mbps though, am I right in saying that the majority of them there being over 54Mbps are really big overkill?


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## Cybrnook2002 (May 27, 2008)

check my previous post out


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## lemonadesoda (May 27, 2008)

A picture replaces a thousand words.

1./ You can replace/upgrade any component in a separates solution INDEPENDENTLY

2./ The quality/reliability of a separates solution is USUALLY better

3./ With a proper Access Point, you can do something called WIRELESS BRIDGING. This is not possible with built-in router wireless. A wireless bridge will *link* two or more separate wired LAN segments, so that it works as one.

4./ There are no "enterprise" all in one solutions. All the big-boy networks are built like the first picture

5./ "Consumer" all in one solutions quickly choke. They cannot cope with a lot of wireless traffic and wired traffic (esp. hundreds of connections if P2P), esp. if WEP/WPA is turned on.

6./ Security and access control is usually better on a dedicated AP. Plus the throughput is better.

7./ Wireless is notoriously flaky. Better to separate your wired LAN from your Wireless LAN. In an all in one, the router takes everything out. In a separates solution, only the failed component goes down. Everything else is still running. That means you can still work, and means debugging is easier... and if you are short on time... the rest of the network works until you have time to fix the broken bit. With all in one, everything goes down. DEAD.

Downside

1./ More cabling and more wall sockets

2./ A bit more expensive to set up that an all-in-one solution. But then you do get better quality products for each box. ebay is your friend. (Although maybe diff. in malta)


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## Black Panther (May 27, 2008)

Cybrnook2002 said:


> check my previous post out



I seen that but there are some problems 

-- Doesn't seem to be available in Malta,from OcUK, or any supplier which ships to Europe;
-- The main 'con' is mediocre performance..... :shadedshu
-- The main 'pros' are "_extensive security features, easy setup, small and light with wall mounts and rubber feet_".
Now "_extensive security features_" that's okay.
"_Easy setup_" --- uhhh I read some of the comments among which say "setup is possible but tricky under winXP", "finally works" and "firmware xxx fixes many problems" and those comments somewhat put me off...


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## Cybrnook2002 (May 27, 2008)

Black Panther said:


> I seen that but there are some problems
> 
> -- Doesn't seem to be available in Malta,from OcUK, or any supplier which ships to Europe;
> -- The main 'con' is mediocre performance..... :shadedshu
> ...



Ahh, you could say for every router there are problems and what not. I bought mine from a store called Saturn in Austria for 30 euros. I have had no problems what so ever in Vista or XP. This router comes out of the box ready to go. There is an installation cd that walks you through the process and installation of your network if your unsure of what your doing. I have a normal cable internet line and I DL on average of 500 - 1MB kbs on good torrents, my girlfriend on the wireless portion of it usually downloads around 300-400 Kbs. So for mediocre performance, IM HAPPY. I did upgrade the firmware out of the box. However the new ones might have the firmware preloaded, but thats easy to check and upgrade if you need to.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (May 27, 2008)

I still use my old WRT54Gv3, with DD-WRT opensource installed.  I have a small fan on top to keep it from overheating, as I have increased the range.


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## Cybrnook2002 (May 27, 2008)

PVTCaboose1337 said:


> I still use my old WRT54Gv3, with DD-WRT opensource installed.  I have a small fan on top to keep it from overheating, as I have increased the range.



And like PVT said, you could always flash an open source firmware. HOWEVER, I think this may be out of your ball game as its mostly linux based and can be tricky for networking newbies.


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## thoughtdisorder (May 27, 2008)

I've used this one and been quite happy for some time. You don't have to use the wireless capability if you don't want to. Check it out....


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## Black Panther (May 27, 2008)

Cybrnook2002 said:


> I have a normal cable internet line and I DL on average of 500 - 1MB kbs on good torrents, my girlfriend on the wireless portion of it usually downloads around 300-400 Kbs.



Well on 2Mbps DSL I never have downloads higher than 275Kbps on good torrents which means that if that router keeps up with your connection it should keep up with mine. 

It would still work even though mine is DSL and yours is cable?

And yes I'm a networking n00b so please keep it simple  (I don't know what G or N means...)

*Lemonadesoda*: so that means that ultimately all the receiving computers are hooked on to the router and not to the modem, whether the modem is kept separate or not?


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## Cybrnook2002 (May 27, 2008)

Black Panther said:


> Well on 2Mbps DSL I never have downloads higher than 275Kbps on good torrents which means that if that router keeps up with your connection it should keep up with mine.
> 
> It would still work even though mine is DSL and yours is cable?
> 
> ...



Sure it will work. Your phone line plugs into your modem, your modem plugs into the "wan" port on the router, then you have wireless up to 100 PC's at one time, or 4 directly plugged in pc's into the back of the router. Sure it will keep up with your speed, no worries. And ABGN they all stand for different standards. I use wireless G which is wireless 54 MB per second.


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## mrhuggles (May 27, 2008)

almost all consumer routers with the default firmware crash constantly under what any heavy users would call normal use, and they pretty much all crash eventually, which is sad because if you run dd-wrt you will find that it will almost completely never crash, and openWRT never crashes
also, it has packages just like linux

that WRT54GL is an acceptable router, but only basic acceptable, it has 4mb of flash space, and 16mb of memory, 4mb of flash space should be a bare minimum to buy, and 16mb is technicly enough, but really,.. most ppl would want more like 8mb of flash space and 32mb of memory

i personaly have a WRT54G v2.0 with 32mb memory, and 4mb flash space, anyhow, i feel really bad because the consumer routers are so horrible, people bounce between brands, like ppl will buy a netgear and then itl crash all the time so they swear it off and move to d-link and they say d-link is so great, but it still has to be rebooted maybe once a week and crashes on its own 20 times a day and they dont even notice cuz it doesnt record uptime, thats a completely fabricated "story" i guess but its just what ive been seeing happen from all companys to all companys, so i try to help people find solutions that will be relyable and cost effective for them

the best thing you can do for yourself is go on ebay and get a WRT54GS v1.0 to v3.0
measure twice, cut once, if you get one of those it will last you relyably with openWRT + X-Wrt for life, and i say openWRT + X-Wrt above dd-wrt becuase dd-wrt is, well, everything in it is all broken, right now the best thing there is is openWRT, and its not that good for newbies cuz its all linux and most people arnt familiar with that, but X-Wrt is a package for openWRT that replaces the default web interface with something very useable, its easy to figure out, and it gives controll of everything, even if your new its easy to figure out and any time you have any questions there are tons of places to read about stuff, and people who can and will help you out

if you think for 1 second that any model of router is good just find the model number and go to google and search for it with crash at the end like "WRT54G crash" without the quotes

the companys dont care cuz usualy crashes are related to like "torrents" but in reality, if you had say 4 or 5 users on your network and they were all doing stuff normaly that could easily be too much, and my router can handle 20+ users doing alot of things at once and go years without crashing :? well my current all time best uptime was only like 70 days thats because of the power

maybe u dont need something that would go a whole year without crashing, but you definatly want something that isnt gonna crash right in the middle of your game or whatever your doing!

also, i like the QoS in openWRT its pretty great, you end up being able to download and play things at the same time without any serious impact, lotsa users playing games at once, it works out really well.


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## Black Panther (May 29, 2008)

I'll look into the WRT54GL. 

Was suggested like twice in this thread, and in the link above all the reviews are positive.

Hope it will work on my computers... keep in mind one is 3.0Ghz and the other is only at 333Mhz...


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## francis511 (May 29, 2008)

If you have two pcs on a wired connection , gigabit is really worth using !


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## grunt_408 (May 29, 2008)

http://www.amazon.com/review/produc...pr_redirect/105-0346746-7688444&tag=tec06d-20
I have one of these and its a good little modem


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## thoughtdisorder (May 29, 2008)

Black Panther said:


> I'll look into the WRT54GL.
> 
> Was suggested like twice in this thread, and in the link above all the reviews are positive.
> 
> Hope it will work on my computers... keep in mind one is 3.0Ghz and the other is only at 333Mhz...



It's a worthy piece of hardware! The link I provided earlier in this thread is to one of the sites you mentioned you could easily buy from. (Fyi)


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## mrhuggles (May 29, 2008)

WRT54GL + openWRT + X-Wrt

but you can get versions of the WRT54* that have more memory and flash space... you should get someone to let you play around with theirs befor you deside, having only 16mb memory and 4mb flash space thats like a minimum nessisary and if you see any packages you wanna install you should get something bigger.


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## Black Panther (May 29, 2008)

Wait a sec, I know this sounds stupid but I think I have something missing... (pls bear with me for I have never ever even touched a router).

So it goes like this:

Connect router to wall power supply. Connect modem to router. Connect modem to pc. Assuming I do everything wired on rig in my system specs. Then pray that I can get online...

Now as regards the old celeron in the other room, how's that going to 'pick up' the wireless connection from the router?

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I'd either need a very long cable or a pci card with an antenna which looks like this?

Certainly going wired will be very messy :shadedshu


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## lemonadesoda (May 29, 2008)

Black Panther said:


> Certainly going wired will be very messy :shadedshu


Not really. You get "him indoors" to install a couple of ethernet wall sockets in the house. It's a bit of work to do... but once done... all neat and tidy.


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## Black Panther (May 29, 2008)

But the antenna pci card is just as good isn't it?


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