# Does anyone know how to tell if the new MSI B550 mobo's are 50A or 60A power stages?



## Space Lynx (Jun 8, 2020)

basically all the MSI b550 mobo's are up for pre-order and their MSI official pages are listed. I am leaning towards the Tomahawk it 100% has 60 amp power stages listed on its product page, however, when I look on the other B550 product pages I can't find out for sure.  Anyone know how to check the others? The MSI B550 A-Pro is $40 cheaper than the Tomahawk, but has the same 10+2 phases, so does that mean it uses the same 60 amp power stages?


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jun 8, 2020)

Looking at the picture its using shitty separate high and low side mosfets on the A pro. Also looking at the memory support I'm guessing the PCB of the Tomahawk is much better or at the very least it has much better memory traces.


I could be wrong but going by the verbage both are actually 5 phase vcore vrm with 2 power stages in each phase.


Untill we get pcb breakdowns Its going to be hard to know how the vrms are set up on these boards

I know the strix e is most likely a 6 phase with 2 50amp power stages in each phase and the aorus master is a true 16 phase with 70 amp power stages but with most other boards we will have to wait for buildzoid to get a hold of them.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 8, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Looking at the picture its using shitty separate high and low side mosfets on the A pro. Also looking at the memory support I'm guessing the PCB of the Tomahawk is much better or at the very least it has much better memory traces.
> 
> 
> I could be wrong but going by the verbage both are actually 5 phase vcore vrm with 2 power stages in each phase.
> ...



the tomahawk product page says the b550 tomahawk is 6 layer PCB, and 60 AMP,  but the b550 A-Pro, while being same 10+2 phase says neither of those things. so my guess is the tomahawk is worth the extra $40, since it has that plus all the other bonus stuff like an actual high end 20 gps type c, pre-installed IO shield...

I only wish it had wifi instead of dual-LAN, seriously I will never understand these companies... probably like 0.001% of people use dual LAN... and it costs $20 to add that on to a board according to buildzoid.  would have much rather had wifi. meh


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jun 8, 2020)

This is the diagram for the Tomahawk where its obviously power stages




This is the A pro where is obviously budget separate high and low side mosfets



Like you say the Tomahawk seems to be a 6 layer pcb vs a 4 layer for the A pro as well.



After MSI huge fail with their budget boards on X570 I would wait for Hardwareunboxed to do vrm testing before buying any of these. I doubt MSI would make the same mistake twice but you never know.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 8, 2020)

Yeah, I saw those pictures too, but I am not versed enough to make that difference, thank you for explaining it. Honestly, if the B550 Tomahawk has 60 amp power stages, that will be same as the x570 tomahawk... and honestly I only need 1x pci gen 4 lane for big navi in september, i have no need for for the bells and whistles of x570 otherwise. i'll never own more than 1 m.2 so im safe there too so meh.

looks like the b550 tomahawk will be the winner for me personally, especially since x570 tomahawk will prob cost $230 or so. im in no rush

msi seems to have redeemed themselves, and i think they will continue to do so. im not worried but im not buying until september


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jun 8, 2020)

The X570 tomahawk is a twelve phase using 60 amp power stages accomplished by using doublers..... The b550 version looks like a 2 power stage per phase 5 phase vrm so they're actually quite different.


either way I would wait till the B550 version is looked at by buildzoid or hardware unboxed..... Assuming MSI hasn't messed it up somehow it should still be slightly better than the Tuf vrm wise.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 8, 2020)

Even if the Tomahawk and the two Mortars are 50A DrMOS parts, you're not remotely going to run into problems with pure VRM output for 3900X or 3950X (let's not go that far, I don't know) on normal cooling. As long as MSI doesn't intentionally gimp features and properly mounts heatsinks with thermal pads (cough Asus cough X570I Strix cough), they'll be just fine. The B450 Tomahawk has discrete MOSFETs and works just fine.

Where Ryzen runs into problems is where AIBs only put true phases on small ITX or super budgetboards, don't have space to double/twin the phases, *and *implement an artificial amperage limit for no reason. The B450-I Aorus which I have ticks all of these boxes, and not even its 50A PowIRs can save it because it is literally artificially prevented from running higher core count parts, and would suffer from having only 4 true phases, on IR3556, even had it not had that limit. On the other hand, the MSI and Asus ITX B450 boards have true 6-phase with 60A and 40A PowIRs respectively; no problems whatsoever with 3900X on that phase count.

Some reviewers have this hard-on for true phases, but when you can't get that many true phases, doubled/twinned is miles better than only having half as many true phases. Whether the controller is decent enough to provide clean power/not droop like crazy/not spike like crazy is another question, but generally not an issue.

What I hope is that ASRock and MSI are using "smarter" powerstages and controllers in their Steel Legend and Mortar/Tomahawk boards respectively that can report current and temperatures in a detailed and accurate manner.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jun 8, 2020)

I know that they're skimping on the Mortar as far as PCB as its only a 4 layer but it does have 8 60 amp power stages in a likely 4 phase configuration....


The Steel legend looks like its going to be the better of the two just as far as VRM goes maybe not 10 50 amp vs 8 60 amp should be interesting.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 8, 2020)

I'm honestly leaning toward the MSI B550 Tomahawk, I don't really need any of the bells and whistles it has, but I feel it will be a good sweet spot, I intend to get a Ryzen 4800x on release day, so I don't think I want the MSI B550 A-Pro, probably should get the beefier VRM/thicker PCB, and better power stages. That being said, I don't need to spend the $40-50 extra on the MSY X70 tomahawk, as I feel that board really is more for the 4900x or 4950x and 3900x and 3950x.  

I will for the life of me never understand this DUAL LAN crap though. I suppose if one ever died on me, it would be nice to have a backup, so there is that I guess. though I have never heard of this happening lol


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jun 8, 2020)

The X570 Tomahawk was originally suppose to be $199 or $210 but my guess is MSI figures it would make most their b550 lineup pointless at that price lol.

I personally wouldn't buy a board without a post code but at least with AMD that seems reserved for 250+ usd  boards which is pretty crappy..... I guess color coded led are better than nothing.

I guess z490 is pretty much the same though.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 8, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> I will for the life of me never understand this DUAL LAN crap though. I suppose if one ever died on me, it would be nice to have a backup, so there is that I guess. though I have never heard of this happening lol



It used to be more of a "professional"-oriented feature, but it may have relevance for the next few months on Z490 or B550 because of the Intel i225's throughput and reboot bug issues. On 1Gbe, Intel had a better reputation; my H97N-WIFI has one each of Intel and Qualcomm, and the i217 is more consistent. That said, the throughput issue is supposedly already fixed to some degree and won't be a problem going forward because of a new hardware stepping for future boards; the other is a driver issue that should be fixed on the next software version. Also not an issue because the Tomahawk gets 2 Realteks instead  but so far the Realtek 2.5 is the more problem-free compared to Intel's i225, so pretty good deal.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 8, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> The X570 Tomahawk was originally suppose to be $199 or $210 but my guess is MSI figures it would make most their b550 lineup pointless at that price lol.
> 
> I personally wouldn't buy a board without a post code but at least with AMD that seems reserved for 250+ usd  boards which is pretty crappy..... I guess color coded led are better than nothing.
> 
> I guess z490 is pretty much the same though.



if the MSI X570 Unify was 90amp power stages and just as good as the Z490 Unify (both cost the same at $299), I might have considered that. It does kind of irk me they are ok with gimping the x570 Unify and going balls to the wall with the Z490 variant.  meh


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Jun 8, 2020)

Well a 10900k uses about the same amount of power as a threadripper cpu so it makes sense.... All the 300+ boards are pretty overkill unless Ryzen 4000 draws 300+ watts lol.



Actually the most overkill sub 300 amd board is the B550 Aorus Master.... Still can't believe Gigabyte put the vrm from the extreme on it.



I don't think those 90 amp parts were available at a price they could put them onto a 300 usd board at the time..... Those first started on TRX40 boards and then migrated over to Z490,,,

if X570 gets refreshed or X670 is a thing there will definitely be pointlessly overkill 16 phase 90 amp vrms on them lol.


----------



## Assimilator (Jun 8, 2020)

Ugh, I hate this so much.

First it was so-called enthusiasts demanding MOAR PHASES, so manufacturers rushed to add as many unnecessary phases to their boards as they could cram on.
Now enthusiasts are demanding HIGHER AMP PHASES so manufacturers are once again complying.

End result, motherboards end up costing more, and those same "enthusiasts" complain that it's for no good reason.

High phase counts and high-amp phases are only relevant for extreme overclocking scenarios. Zen can't overclock. Ergo, high phase counts and high-amp phases are mostly irrelevant for Zen.

As for choosing a board... don't waste your time now, wait for the Ryzen 3 launch. Almost certainly there will be a re-release of X570 boards, maybe rebranded as X670, that will have the new features that B550 does. So B550 and current X570 will come down in price, meaning you might be able to pick up a high-end X570 WiFi model for peanuts.

And if you really really need WiFi 6, you can pick up a PCIe card with it for $30.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 8, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Ugh, I hate this so much.
> 
> First it was so-called enthusiasts demanding MOAR PHASES, so manufacturers rushed to add as many unnecessary phases to their boards as they could cram on.
> Now enthusiasts are demanding HIGHER AMP PHASES so manufacturers are once again complying.
> ...



That's assuming wave 2 of covid doesn't happen and disrupt supply lines in a harsh way. It is very likely we will get a wave 2 this Fall.


----------



## R0H1T (Jun 8, 2020)

Yeah, you'd have to be very bold to predict no second wave in the season where nCoV will likely inflict the most damage.
The last few "waves" have really only been ripples, though I'm hoping it doesn't get worse than this but there's every chance it will.


----------



## Assimilator (Jun 8, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> That's assuming wave 2 of covid doesn't happen and disrupt supply lines in a harsh way. It is very likely we will get a wave 2 this Fall.



You assume suppliers and logistics companies haven't learned from this crisis?

Yes, there will be another wave - and further waves after that - but the impact will be less with each one.


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 8, 2020)

looks like i waited to long yet again to buy B550, they are sold out everywhere and product pages are removed. going to be a game of whack a mole for another year trying to wait for a good mobo to come in stock at MSRP I bet. sigh.

and that will depend on the severity of the wave ^ post 17.  it could mutate and be much stronger and survive on objects longer, etc etc


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 8, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> looks like i waited to long yet again to buy B550, they are sold out everywhere and product pages are removed.


They dont go on sale until 6/16...lol..

Product page is there.





						MSI MAG B550 TOMAHAWK AMD AM4 DDR4 CF M.2 USB 3.2 Gen 2 HDMI ATX Gaming Motherboard
					

Powered by AMD Ryzen AM4 processors, the MSI MAG B550 TOMAHAWK inspired by the military armor design,  tuned for better performance by Core boost, DDR4 Boost, Lightning M.2 with M.2 Shied




					www.msi.com
				




No way to tell what's under the hood without looking... ive already popped the top. 



			
				assimilator said:
			
		

> High phase counts and high-amp phases are only relevant for extreme overclocking scenarios


tell that to the biostar z490gta evo with its mighty 40a 16-phase vrm that runs HOT at stock speeds with i9-10900k...


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 8, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> They dont go on sale until 6/16...lol..
> 
> Product page is there.
> 
> ...



no amazon had them on pre-order over the weekend. you could secure your spot. i guess they violated the terms on it though cause now the product pages are no longer listed, i wonder if those who pre-ordered get to keep it though


----------



## EarthDog (Jun 8, 2020)

Pre-order Amazon... say that next time, lol. Just order one on the 16th... be ready. 

But yeah... let me look at the pic I took and get back to you...

Edit: 60A power.


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 8, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> no amazon had them on pre-order over the weekend. you could secure your spot. i guess they violated the terms on it though cause now the product pages are no longer listed, i wonder if those who pre-ordered get to keep it though



Probably none legit until the actual release. The B550M-A Prime preorder was up for a couple of days at $200CAD, but for just one day there was a B550 Strix-F preorder on Amazon.ca for $580CAD, so...


----------



## Space Lynx (Jun 9, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Probably none legit until the actual release. The B550M-A Prime preorder was up for a couple of days at $200CAD, but for just one day there was a B550 Strix-F preorder on Amazon.ca for $580CAD, so...



no they were legit, shipped and sold by amazon.  i actually had my order in for the tomahawk at $179, but cancelled it after i got some responses on this thread to wait.  lol  woops


----------

