# Soundblaster Z or ....?



## johnspack (Jun 16, 2016)

I'm building a rather large audio collection at this point,  with many audiophile quality 24bit 192khz recordings.  My old x-fi titanium will only do 96khz,  and it's quite old at this point,  time to upgrade.
As usual,  I'm poor as p*** so I want to keep the cash outlay as low as possible.  My akgs would probably like a nice $300-500 dac instead,  but that's not feasible.  Is there anything better for not much more than the Z?
Which I should mention runs $129can up here as it is,  so 150+ delivered....  Also,  have to be able to get it from Ncix.com.


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## Ferrum Master (Jun 16, 2016)

mate... those numbers mean nothing, do you understand that it is just a sign on the wall... 

how much $$$ you got?


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## Jetster (Jun 16, 2016)

http://www.ncix.com/search/?qcatid=0&q=asus+Xonar


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## RejZoR (Jun 16, 2016)

You can't go wrong with Sound Blaster Z's. They are great all around soundcards with no problems old Creative cards had. And they are cheaper while still delivering great audio.


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## Kursah (Jun 16, 2016)

I knew this was almost a deja vu thread topic!...

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...192khz-32-bit-sound-card.223357/#post-3472440



What model AKG's you listening to? I have 553 Pro's and love em, I feed them sound through an old first-gen AuneT1, excellent DAC/AMP combo. Though they are pretty sensitive so I can drive them from my Sansa Fuze or OnePlus One quite eaisly too.

Also, don't over focus on getting the highest Khz, mW, etc. Get something quality. Being in a budget...my question is...beyond you stating your current sound card is "quite old at this point", does it still produce the sound you enjoy?

If not, I'd look at something with an HP amp...I don't recall if that card you have now does or not..but I do know folks still recommend buying and using those cards for consistently good sound quality...so you might be just fine honestly. If it ain't broke and sounds good...don't replace it. To me it seems more like you have the upgrade itch. You could also consider getting a dedicated HP amp or AVR and run a digital connection to it as well. You might be able to snag a nice used Aune T1 in your budget, and that's a damn good unit. Focus on quality components more than output specs and you'll be much happier. And again, if you're content with what you have...then keep running it. 

You're not missing out on as much as you think you are sound quality wise IMHO, sure there are better DAC's that you *might* notice a difference, more-so you're missing out on output. I didn't look up the DAC specs on your card, but when I research X-Fi, that's the card folks recommend time and time again on places like Head-Fi. Remember some folks' ears are more sensitive to changes than others...you might spend all your budget and not notice a difference between your "old" sound card and new device. To me that's not worth the risk unless you need more clean output power or have noise/isolation issues with a sound card being in your system or major driver issues or something where your current card is actually causing issues. Just my 2 cents though...

And why make a new thread? Sure it is in the correct topic, but the other one was just as relevant to this question...


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## johnspack (Jun 19, 2016)

Oops,  must have forgot about that other thread,  I've been agonizing over this for so long.  My Q701s are easy to drive,  but are sensitive to the quality of the source.  I hear a huge difference between 24bit/96khz and 16bit/44.1khz even at 1 to 1 rips.  I would love to hear the difference at 192khz,  even if it's small.  And I would prefer not having to go through my amp to get enough volume,  and I think that would result in a cleaner sound as well.  I guess the soundblaster z has a hp amp,  but not sure how good.  Not sure who'll I'll pass this x-fi card on to,  everyone I know has a mobo that supports 192khz at this point.  I'll grab the Z for now,  until I can afford a proper dac unit.


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## ZoneDymo (Jun 19, 2016)

I would say the only option is the Asus Xonar STX-2
In terms of quality it has been reviewed very favourable.

Or you could wait a bit and see where EVGA's upcoming soundcard goes (which I for one am quite interested in).


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## shovenose (Jun 19, 2016)

I owned a SBZ at some point in the past, and thought it sounded really good. I gave it to a friend at some point because it didn't fit in my build at that time - he uses it with a really expensive set of headphones and says it is much better than onboard audio in his pricey Asus mobo. Yet a different friend, who does audio stuff, uses a SBZ as well, and beyond some weird driver issues (that were resolved in an update after a few months), he's happy with it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's a good card. I will say that $150+ does seem like a rip off... that costs $100 here on Amazon, or $70 refurbished on eBay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Creative-So...und-Card-Beamforming-Mic-SB1500-/360869943118


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## johnspack (Jun 19, 2016)

Yeah,  the Z just went on sale,  so I guess It's calling to me.  Do want that STX-2 however,  but for 329can,  I think I could find a serviceable dac for that much.  I guess spending 119 + tax + shipping to get the same sound that most get with their
onboard sound is reasonable.....


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## Jack1n (Jun 19, 2016)

johnspack said:


> Yeah,  the Z just went on sale,  so I guess It's calling to me.  Do want that STX-2 however,  but for 329can,  I think I could find a serviceable dac for that much.  I guess spending 119 + tax + shipping to get the same sound that most get with their
> onboard sound is reasonable.....


SBZ sounds significantly better then any thing on board a motherboard.


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## Scrizz (Jun 19, 2016)

you can also try looking for a Titanium HD.
It's great for music!

http://www.head-fi.org/products/creative-labs-x-fi-titanium-hd-pci-e
http://support.creative.com/kb/ShowArticle.aspx?sid=85594


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## johnspack (Jun 19, 2016)

Yes,  titanium hd is 192khz,  but one gen old.  SBZ is newest tech.  Should be even better for music.


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## R-T-B (Jun 19, 2016)

I have the AKG K7XXX's, which are customized AKG K702's, which are very similar to the q701s.  Long story short we have kinda similar sets of headphones and I know what you know about source quality.  I used to be ok with MP3s...  I can't bear them now.  It's a blessing and a curse having these headphones, when they sound awesome they sound completely awesome, but they are VERY sensitive to source quality.

Let us know how the Z works out.  If you haven't ordered it, I have a DAC/amp combo unit that runs off Toslink I could ship you pretty cheaply (like grand total $70.00 including shipping from USA, and 25 bucks of that is shipping as you know I'm sure).  It was driving my headphones until recently.  But if you got the SBZ already don't worry, I'm sure it will work fine.  My amp/dac is kinda a weird Chinese brand anyhow (but surprisingly good for the money)

Here's the unit I have, if you're remotely interested:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A2QLPJM/?tag=tec06d-20


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## johnspack (Jun 22, 2016)

Yep,  ordered the Z.  I will probably be looking for a small,  clean amp to go with it though.  Turns out the headphone dac in the Z only does 96khz,  you have to buy the ZxR at 300+ to get a real headphone amp.  The Z does put out 192khz,  but in direct stereo mode only,  so only front stereo out is capable.  Arg.  Now to get it to compare sound with my old Titanium on my 192k vinyl rips......


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 22, 2016)

Z is the Key


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## johnspack (Jun 24, 2016)

Yep,  the Z did it. Amazing sound quality,  highly recommended.  Unfortunately the process resulted in my 7 yr old mobo no longer seeing 5 of my 6 ram sticks.  Running 4gigs in single channel now.
It's been doing this for a while,  knew it become permanent eventually.  Anyone know any good deals on an sb-e mobo and cpu?


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## johnspack (Jun 24, 2016)

Again,  barring my little tradegy...  the Z is f'ing amazing for sound quality.  I'm running my hd flac library through it now.  Using both headphone dac,  and stereo direct.  When using 192k flacs,  stereo direct is perfered.
96k flacs are fine with both regular stereo and headphone dac.  The headphone dac is 96khz,  and has very good output.


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## AsRock (Jun 24, 2016)

Left all this crap a long time ago and just got a real amp with real speakers. Might pay a little more but dam the experience is much better.


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## Jetster (Jun 24, 2016)

AsRock said:


> Left all this crap a long time ago and just got a real amp with real speakers. Might pay a little more but dam the experience is much better.



Little more? I have like 1100 in my sound. Its crazy how much you can spend


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## R-T-B (Jun 24, 2016)

Jetster said:


> Little more? I have like 1100 in my sound. Its crazy how much you can spend



I have about $600 in my headphone setup, and you can obviously spend much more (even in just headphones).


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## Dragonsmonk (Jun 24, 2016)

I went for a Xonar DX to drive my Beyerdynamic 770Pro's (250Ohm) and that card does it np and sounds good as well... just putting it out there as option


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## Dethroy (Jun 24, 2016)

Creative's Soundblaster live! was simply amazing back in the days (christmas present 1998). I still remember playing Unreal for the very first time (birthday present along with a Vodoo Banshee) and getting so scared during the first skaarj encounter...








Unreal was the "benchmark" for graphics and sound for me. I showed this very scene to basically all my friends back in the days because it was so damn impressive. 

But ever since that, Creative's offerings ceased to amaze me. I couldn't be happier with my Asus Essence STX, though.


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## AsRock (Jun 24, 2016)

Jetster said:


> Little more? I have like 1100 in my sound. Its crazy how much you can spend



No need to spend that much you can do that with any thing and should know this when people come on TPU saying they going, it's crazy how much you can put in any thing and not end up needing too.

Pick up a good enough Amp or even a home theater with some secondhand speakers for 400$ if you do it right.  Not everyone needs are the same and they will do a much better job for the most part. In the end it's about how much you want to get in to it.

I was just adding that it's not the only way to go. I guess i just enjoy the no driver or what ever can crop up with add-on cards.



R-T-B said:


> I have about $600 in my headphone setup, and you can obviously spend much more (even in just headphones).



For that price i hope they are no 20-20 crap .


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## RejZoR (Jun 24, 2016)

Just a tip, Creative just released brand new drivers for Sound Blaster Z series 

Download


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## johnspack (Jun 24, 2016)

Yeah,  already updated through the app.  Spent all morning on my box and got 5 out of 6 sticks of ram working!  Possible bad stick,  oh well.  Back to listening to this card.....


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## johnspack (Jun 24, 2016)

Bah,  just so everyone knows,  you do have to dl the new update and install it.  I thought the app could update itself,  but guess not.


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## Scrizz (Jun 26, 2016)

johnspack said:


> Yes,  titanium hd is 192khz,  but one gen old.  SBZ is newest tech.  Should be even better for music.



I know you already made your purchase, but the the Titanium HD is far superior to the SBZ for music. The only new SB card that matches it is the ZxR.
Music is not like GFX. Some of the best speakers available are not new. 

Enjoy your SBZ.


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## AsRock (Jun 26, 2016)

Scrizz said:


> I know you already made your purchase, but the the Titanium HD is far superior to the SBZ for music. The only new SB card that matches it is the ZxR.
> Music is not like GFX. *Some of the best speakers available are not new.*
> 
> Enjoy your SBZ.



So true.


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## R-T-B (Jun 26, 2016)

AsRock said:


> For that price i hope they are no 20-20 crap .



Only the table the stuff sits on is crap.  I paid too much for some pieces and discarded some cheap china amps before getting here, but the end result is posted in the headphone thread.  Yes, I could've done it cheaper likely but meh, I'm happy.

Linky


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## AsRock (Jun 26, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> Only the table the stuff sits on is crap.  I paid too much for some pieces and discarded some cheap china amps before getting here, but the end result is posted in the headphone thread.  Yes, I could've done it cheaper likely but meh, I'm happy.
> 
> Linky



I cannot stand headphone's, personal option.  I like BIG sound, so big you feel the bass though the house in a controlled manner. Other reason is summer time your ear can sweat if there is no air con.

Have nothing against you \or paying that much, 20-20 is common were they don't put in good driver design in for the cost, then they are not mine so enjoy.


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## R-T-B (Jun 26, 2016)

AsRock said:


> I cannot stand headphone's, personal option.  I like BIG sound, so big you feel the bass though the house in a controlled manner. Other reason is summer time your ear can sweat if there is no air con.
> 
> Have nothing against you \or paying that much, 20-20 is common were they don't put in good driver design in for the cost, then they are not mine so enjoy.



You know how personal audio stuff is, so no point arguing, lol.


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## AsRock (Jun 26, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> You know how personal audio stuff is, so no point arguing, lol.



Indeed, but who said there was arguing .


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## eidairaman1 (Jun 26, 2016)

Sound Blaster or HT Omega


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## johnspack (Jun 29, 2016)

Well,  I got stomped on all over at head-fi...  just tried to ask why my dsd capable dac on my soundblaster z cant output dsd?  Now I actually  wonder if it is?  arg.....


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## thesmokingman (Jun 29, 2016)

johnspack said:


> Well,  I got stomped on all over at head-fi...  just tried to ask why my dsd capable dac on my soundblaster z cant output dsd?  Now I actually  wonder if it is?  arg.....




Where does Creative list that it supports DSD? Afaik, sound blasters don't support DSD. I think the Essense One does the trick but lol it's a lot of moola


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## johnspack (Jun 29, 2016)

Well crap,  then I have to wait until I can afford an X7?  At least that's the same cost as an Ti HD from the States.


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## thesmokingman (Jun 29, 2016)

johnspack said:


> Well crap,  then I have to wait until I can afford an X7?  At least that's the same cost as an Ti HD from the States.



X7? From Creative? Why, it doesn't have DSD support? Why do you need DSD? Do you have a SACD source? As mentioned at headfi, you need a DAC capable of DSD. Again, I don't think any pc soundcard supports DSD and you need a real DAC with DSD.


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## johnspack (Jun 29, 2016)

Oh well,  may never figure this one out.  Time to save up 400 for the X7 to find out I guess....  after my new mobo and cpu...  arg....


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## thesmokingman (Jun 29, 2016)

johnspack said:


> Oh well,  may never figure this one out.  Time to save up 400 for the X7 to find out I guess....  after my new mobo and cpu...  arg....




Why you want an X7??? It's an external DAC/amp so you might as well get a real hifi dac/amp with DSD. I'm confused...

Btw, the thing I don't like about the X7 is the opamp area, there's very little clearance so if you go to higher end opamps, they'll be sticking out the side of the X7. That will look so terribad.


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## johnspack (Jun 29, 2016)

That's the point,  the X7 is a real dac....
I believe it has full dsd support as well...
What else for 400 could I  get that has it's capabilities?


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## thesmokingman (Jun 29, 2016)

johnspack said:


> That's the point,  the X7 is a real dac....
> I believe it has full dsd support as well...
> What else for 400 could I  get that has it's capabilities?




Where does it list the X7 supports DSD???

Below is one of the cheapest at 500 bucks.

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-idsd/


Also, look what happens when you install Burson V5s into a X7... you can't! Iirc, the opamp section is on the bottom of the X7, so it will stick thru the X7 into the ground. Bursons are the 4 red towers below.


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## johnspack (Jun 29, 2016)

That looks like a zxr mainboard.  Very limited.  How is that the X7 external dac?


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## thesmokingman (Jul 4, 2016)

johnspack said:


> That looks like a zxr mainboard.  Very limited.  How is that the X7 external dac?




Its a decent dac, but it doesn't do dsd.  I don't like it personally cuz you can't change (very easily) the opamps to tailor the amp section to your preference. That and the fact that I don't have that sort of desk space to waste with triple displays.


Btw, the ifi units are on sale.

http://slickdeals.net/f/8886923-ifi...no-idsd-150-free-shipping?src=featured-c-9803


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## RejZoR (Jul 9, 2016)

@thesmokingman

How much are the Burson V5? Damn, thinking of sticking them to my SBZ as well, but they are huge. Not sure if it would even fit between my soundcard PCB and PSU below it...

What about Burson V5i ? These are significantly smaller. Are they for same purpose or shall I say they provide the quality as well?


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## thesmokingman (Jul 9, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> @thesmokingman
> 
> How much are the Burson V5? Damn, thinking of sticking them to my SBZ as well, but they are huge. Not sure if it would even fit between my soundcard PCB and PSU below it...
> 
> What about Burson V5i ? These are significantly smaller. Are they for same purpose or shall I say they provide the quality as well?



https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/supreme-sound-opamp-v5/

Getting four V5's is a lot of moola lol. Burson has these extenders btw, they should allow side ways mounting. You can also check the Sparkos Labs. Have you seen the big zxr vs stx thread on headfi? 

http://sparkoslabs.com/discrete-op-amps/


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## thesmokingman (Jul 10, 2016)

Oh looks like the V5i are not full discrete opamps but instead a hybrid.


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## johnspack (Jul 15, 2016)

If you have spent a pissload on hd audio,  then hit hdtracks.com and get out your credit card.  Cds are pointless.


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