# 5800x (and other Zen 3 chips) PBO settings/Temperature fix



## Mussels (Jun 25, 2021)

The 5800x is well known for having heat issues on stock settings, because it's single 8 core CCX design shares the same power limits as the 2x6 (dual 6 core CCX) 5900x - so it's got a lot less space to cool itself with.


A Zen 3 chiplet (whether it has 4 cores or 8) is 80.7mm square -modern intels are over 200mm square. *Four times the surface area to cool with.*
It doesn't matter how big a heatsink you slap on top, what matters most is the quality of the contact, and the quality of heatsink base.

All the dual CCX Zen 3 chips look like this, with three sources of heat (lower is the IO die, upper two are the CPU chiplets)
A 5950x with two 8 core chipsets, a 5900x with two 6 core chiplets and a 5800x with one 8 core chiplet all have the same 140W PPT target

It's simple to imagine that a 5800x having the wattage of both CCX's shoved into just one is going to be harder to cool and fussier about the heatsink contact on top.
You can either fight with a really high-quality cooler to get the contact exactly right... or tweak the PBO values and stop the chips from sending so much power out. You could throw 30W more for less than a 1% boost, so why not trim the excess?





When compared to intel, you can see they have a MUCH larger surface area to spread the heat out over, which is why they can report lower temps despite having much higher wattages



Skipping the explanation, heres some recommended settings from our various forum users and myself!
Regardless of which chip you have, you can simply do some minor tweaks to match your chip better: if these settings work super cold (like they do for me on custom water) - you can simply up the values for more performance if you want it. Just make sure to scale them together

Also, single threaded and multi threaded temps are usually very similar, because Ryzen reports the temp of the hottest core

*5600x*


Spoiler



5600x settings per Zach_01
Default limits of 5600X are:
PPT: 76W
TDC: 60A
EDC: 90A


And some higher performance settings:
PPT: 90W
TDC: 75A
EDC: 100A



*5800x*
Exclusively with this chip due to heat density you'll find very diminishing returns past 100w PPT - expect lapped heatsinks and liquid metal for high values.
100-115W seems to be where people have the best results, curve offsets allowing higher clocks at the lower wattages



Spoiler



GerKNG's highly efficiet 5800x settings are as follows:

Max efficiency:
PPT: 95W
TDC:60A
EDC: 90A
56C, 4.2GHz all core load, 4.9GHz boost
Note how the PBO values all match at 100% all together - Gherkin King here really tuned these in!




And then I tested some higher values, since i have custom water cooling on mine:
You'll notice that getting even 100Mhz more, adds 10C


5800x custom water
+200Mhz
Curve optimiser: -10 all core
PPT: 110W
TDC: 90A
EDC: 100A
R23: 4.45GHz all core, 63C (4.925GHz 1T)



5800x custom water
+200Mhz
Curve optimiser: -10 all core
PPT: 120W
TDC: 75A
EDC: 110A
These were tuned in like Gerkngs so they all hit 100% together to please my OCD
R23: 4.5-4.55Ghz all core, 69.5C - (5.025GHz 1T)






Spoiler: Matt Ferris 5800x



For each setup, curve optimizer was: -23 on best cores; -30 on "bad" cores
Initial Setup

PPT: 142
TDC: 95
EDC: 125
Max Temp Multi-Core: 82C
CB23: 15134
Second Test

PPT: 124
TDC: 85
EDC: 127
Max Temp Multi-Core: 76C
CB23: 14957
Third Test

PPT: 120
TDC: 75
EDC: 110
Max Temp Multi-Core: 69.8C
CB23: 14653
Fourth Test

PPT: 117
TDC: 80
EDC: 120
Max Temp Multi-Core: 71.3C
CB23: 14862










These should work on any Zen 3 chips, but watch out for differences in the CCX and core counts.
2x6 cores on a 5900x has far more surface area to cool with, vs a single 8 core CCX on a 5800x - so it can handle higher values.


Two more tips follow:
1. Watch out for two seperate PBO settings on some motherboards, on my Asus board i have one in 'Ai Tweaker' and one in advanced. Only the AI tweaker settings work and apply, the Advanced ones are ignored (except for curve optimiser, which is only visible there)

2. Curve optimiser is great, but watch out for random crashes at idle or moderate load situations. Some of my cores go to -30, some will only go to -5 without issues. Be patient, and only test this when you're 100% sure your system is already stable, or you could waste a lot of time with testing it out. I ended up settling on -13 all core, instead of tweaking them all individually.
I m about to follow some advice here and start using core cycler to test out the offsets in an automated way
GitHub - sp00n/corecycler: Stability test script for PBO & Curve Optimizer stability testing on AMD Ryzen processors


----------



## freeagent (Jun 25, 2021)

Mussels said:


> on my Asus board i have one in 'Ai Tweaker' and one in advanced. Only the AI tweaker settings work and apply, the Advanced ones are ignored (except for curve optimiser, which is only visible there)


Sweet man!

I just wanted to note that I do my overclocking from the Advanced menu, not AI tweaker..  

They fixed my board a few flashes ago 

Edit:

If I use both menus I get a high clock but lower effective by a couple hundred MHz


----------



## birdie (Jun 25, 2021)

Mussels said:


> PPT/TDC/EDC
> 105/70/95: A little faster than stock, about 70C on my 5800x



This absolutely tanks performance in CB R23.

By default: ~15500, with these settings ~14100.

I've settled on PPT 125W and that's it. Now CB R23 shows ~15100 and I'm OK with that. Temps are lower.

There's a discussion about the best PPT/TDC/EDC settings on Reddit 



Spoiler: reddit





__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/kfpele



 but I've tried their best settings (120/75/110) and they are not very good.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 25, 2021)

You can simply tune the settings to suit your needs and temp preferences

In my case, i get my full 5.05GHz single core boost, and lost only 75MHz off my multi threaded - this DOES seem to vary board by board, so you gotta adjust.


----------



## mtcn77 (Jun 25, 2021)

I think I have told on occasion that PPT has to be 10% higher than EDC which is what you have done.









						Ryzen Master Performance Boost Overdrive EDC vs. PPT showdown
					

Hi, https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cnykxh/3700x_frequencyvoltajepower_on_pbo_custom/  I just found this on Reddit which I happened to consider to be useful for comparison's sake between EDC vs. PPT settings. Normally, you would think power regulation via PPT should fare better. That is...




					www.techpowerup.com
				






mtcn77 said:


> Spoiler: 10%
> 
> 
> 
> On r7, the option to decrease edc *10%* less than ppt is found to work best.





Spoiler: 10%






mtcn77 said:


> Previous observations developed the understanding that *10%* lower EDC than PPT is a good threshold to start.





mtcn77 said:


> Unless you want single threaded performance, you don't need EDC all that much either and even if you are overclocking you should only make PPT *10%* higher than EDC, no more. Again, these are best practice measures.





mtcn77 said:


> First thing is first, ppt has to be *10%* higher than edc.





mtcn77 said:


> If you are looking for ST scores you clamp PPT, and otherwise for MT you keep PPT just *10% *above EDC.





mtcn77 said:


> I suggest decreasing EDC from its 140 default to 130 such that there is a *10% *gap from PPT which was a key point in former Ryzen generations.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 25, 2021)

For fast single core stuff like superpi 32m I use 200/130/130. It will ignore those settings and take what it wants when it comes to multi core. For instance yes 200/130/130 is set, but it will take 215/140/180. Stock is 143/140/90 I think. I might have some of those numbers mixed up tdc and edc always trip me up.


----------



## mtcn77 (Jun 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> For fast single core stuff like superpi 32m I use 200/130/130. It will ignore those settings and take what it wants when it comes to multi core. For instance yes 200/130/130 is set, but it will take 215/140/180. Stock is 143/140/90 I think. I might have some of those numbers mixed up tdc and edc always trip me up.


It is all correct since you said single thread in the beginning.


----------



## GerKNG (Jun 25, 2021)

birdie said:


> This absolutely tanks performance in CB R23.
> 
> By default: ~15500, with these settings ~14100.


weird i have almost your stock 15500 with the 95W "as efficient as possible" Powerlimits.


----------



## birdie (Jun 25, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> weird i have almost your stock 15500 with the 95W "as efficient as possible" Powerlimits.



I'm quite sure you didn't just set PPT to 95W, you have a lot more optimizations.


----------



## GerKNG (Jun 25, 2021)

birdie said:


> I'm quite sure you didn't just set PPT to 95W, you have a lot more optimizations.


95/60/90 (and +50Mhz which has no influence on the score (it hurted single core))
1X Scalar, no other changes.
the only thing that the user should do is playing with the curve optimizer.
but i did not tweaked anything else.


----------



## birdie (Jun 25, 2021)

GerKNG said:


> the only thing that the user should do is playing with the curve optimizer.



This is like crazy important and decides everything and you're glossing over it as if it's nothing.

Again, even with _"95/60/90 (and +50Mhz)"_ the multithreaded benchmarks results will be abysmal and the performance loss will be extreme.


----------



## GerKNG (Jun 25, 2021)

birdie said:


> This is like crazy important and decides everything and you're glossing over it as if it's nothing.
> 
> Again, even with _"95/60/90 (and +50Mhz)"_ the multithreaded benchmarks results will be abysmal and the performance loss will be extreme.


the curve optimizer is mentioned in mussels post.

but in my case even an unstable -20 across all cores makes a difference of 1-2 percent.

stock vs stock and Curve optimizer vs curve optimizer with these limits results in the same gains.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 25, 2021)

Honestly most of the time I just run @ stock clocks with -30 set and no pbo. Runs great even with plain old 3200c14. 3D runs at the top of the clock scale, heavy duty stuff drops the clocks a bit but it’s still very productive.


----------



## mtcn77 (Jun 25, 2021)

freeagent said:


> 3200c14


That's overclocker grade expansion.


----------



## freeagent (Jun 25, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> That's overclocker grade expansion.


They can boogie 

They are almost wasted on AMD..

CO rox


----------



## kiddagoat (Jun 25, 2021)

I don't have much issues with CB23..... My first run was in the 19200 range and my 2nd one attached is in the 18800 range.  Seems good to me. 
I am simply using the "a little faster than stock" settings with a Negative 15 on my PBO Curve Optimizer on all cores.  ** I think when I opened and used the Snip & Sketch tool, might have played a role in the drop of my score, but close enough. **


----------



## tabascosauz (Jun 25, 2021)

kiddagoat said:


> I don't have much issues with CB23..... My first run was in the 19200 range and my 2nd one attached is in the 18800 range.  Seems good to me.
> I am simply using the "a little faster than stock" settings with a Negative 15 on my PBO Curve Optimizer on all cores.  ** I think when I opened and used the Snip & Sketch tool, might have played a role in the drop of my score, but close enough. **



That's quite a bit of a drop for a 5900X, why limit it to 105W? Bone stock 5900X @ 142W is in the 21000 range, MT loads run pretty cool even on a bog standard air cooler. I'm sitting at a hair under 22000, all on air, with a variable per-core CO. It's a bit different for them 5800X owners, but we don't really have their heat problems here on the 12-core, single-thread is what runs hotter at stock.

You don't have to run 10 min worth of CB R23 just to get a score. You can go to File > Advanced Benchmark, turn off minimum test duration.


----------



## Tomgang (Jun 25, 2021)

I can´t really talk much about temp on zen 3 yet. As i have yet to complete my build based on a Ryzen 5 5600X and a Ryzen 9 5950X. Bofh CPU´s are air cooled. So i have only had a little time to test them at stock and with a prime 95 test with the most heat generating test. As said this is with all at stock settings. i have only activated momory XPM profile. Else nothing is touched, so i have yet to fine tune. The below temps are right out of boks with stock voltage.

Cooling setup:
5600X is cooled by a low profile noctua nh-l9x65 se-am4 cooler. With fan a round 1900 RPM it hits 70-71 degress celcius and with the fan at 2500 RPM it comes down to 67 degree celsius with a prime 95 test in the most heat generating test. The little fan is even covered a little by the GPU. Ilde at 45 degree celsius with the fan at 1000 RPM. Some peeple even told me this little cooler, cut not handle a 5600X, But at stock it handles it just fine. All throw this little cooler do limit the overclock potential. But overclock whas never the idea with the 5600X any way.

5950X is cooled by a Noctua NH-D15 chromax black and stock fans has been replaced by Noctua IPPC industrial 3000 RPM fan. One 140 MM and one 120 mm. Here i have so far only testet with the fans a 1600 RPM and not the maximum 3000 RPM. But with a prime 95 test it stabilized around 55 degree celsius and my gues with 3000 RPM temp can get down to around 50 degree celsius. Ilde sits at 35 degree celsius with fans a 1100 RPM.

This is the exsperience i have had so far with Zen 3. So i really dont have a heat issue. Again i so also have the CPU with the lowest TDP and the CPU with the best binned chiplets and most cores to spread the wattage out on. So that will off cause help on the heat.

Some screenshots and a image of my nearly completed system, to give an idea of what´s going on at how airflow is in my system.


----------



## outpt (Jun 25, 2021)

I have not played with optimizing each core,but as little as -5 in CO causes system to become unstable. so i have turned it off and set pbo2 to +100mhz. it now boosts to 4.95ghz with 4.9ghz being more common

edit: doesn't like pbo2 either guess i have a bum chip!


----------



## Mussels (Jun 26, 2021)

outpt said:


> I have not played with optimizing each core,but as little as -5 in CO causes system to become unstable. so i have turned it off and set pbo2 to +100mhz. it now boosts to 4.95ghz with 4.9ghz being more common
> 
> edit: doesn't like pbo2 either guess i have a bum chip!


dont rule out that it could be something else borderline stable, like SoC voltage, DRAM voltage, and so on.


----------



## outpt (Jun 26, 2021)

ok ppt=125,edc=90,tdc=70. pbo2=+50. 4.9ghz stable so far.
pbo2 @ +75mhz yielded 4.95 ghz but unstable in SoTTR.


----------



## turbogear (Jun 26, 2021)

@Mussels If one is using custom cooling then one of the problems is that most of the water blocks are optimised for cooling hotspot in the middle of the CPU, but on Ryzen 3000/5000 there is an offset due to chiplet design.

One of the solution is to consider this Der8auer offset kit:









						Drop Temperatures on RYZEN 3000 CPUs: der8auer RYZEN 3000 OC Bracket
					

der8auer OC Bracket: http://bit.ly/38NACVq---------------------------------------------------------Support me on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/der8auer---...




					www.google.com
				




There are some blocks like TechN that is specifically designed für Ryzen 5000 taking the chiplet design and offset of hotspot into consideration:








						TechN CPU Waterblock against Watercool Heatkiller IV Pro and EK Quantum Magnitude - AMD’s Zen3 may come | igor'sLAB
					

The new CPU waterblock from TechN (here as AM4 version for 99 Euro RRP) has to prove itself in today's test with the quasi classic cooler in the form of the Watercool Heatkiller IV Pro AMD (from…




					www.igorslab.de
				




I changed from XSPC RAYSTORM to TechN and I was able to reduce about 4°C in Cinebench on multiple thread when I had 5800X Curve Optimized.

I don't have the CPU now anymore in my computer as I went to 5900X but I am still using TechN bock.
The 5800X will go to my son's computer in a few weeks when I have the other components for building it up.


----------



## Mussels (Jun 27, 2021)

turbogear said:


> @Mussels If one is using custom cooling then one of the problems is that most of the water blocks are optimised for cooling hotspot in the middle of the CPU, but on Ryzen 3000/5000 there is an offset due to chiplet design.
> 
> One of the solution is to consider this Der8auer offset kit:
> 
> ...


The derbauer kit doesnt fit with modern EK blocks, and i've got one of the modern AM4 exclusives meant to fix that issue

Trust me, i bought it, drained the loop, disassembled everything and then cried when it wouldnt fit (the screwholes are too small)


----------



## outpt (Jul 11, 2021)

finally got pbo to work. boost to 4.925ghz. returned all settings to stock except, temp. limit to 80C,VDDP=0.900 and VDDG=0.950,pbo=+75mhz.
the VDDP and VDDG values i got from a thread at guru3d where posters were having random reboots at idle or doing very little when heavy work loads would not crash.
cinebech23 gave me mt=15553 and single thread was about 1600 or so.


----------



## mtcn77 (Jul 11, 2021)

outpt said:


> ok ppt=125,edc=90


Wrong setup. If you need these settings your cooling is too slow to respond, or you are pushing your limits.
Again, happy to see you found about undervolt limits, but it still delineates the same issue. You are pushing the chip in opposite directions. First of all, you cannot play with pbo and ppt-edc both. One is an overclocker, the others are undervolter settings. One pushes pb settings up which waste what edc is trying to do, the others alternate between p states which don't overboost to the turbo states.
When I had the puny 6800K I couldn't even apply llc, everything had to be within fixed offset for "maximum vdroop" under load to keep temperature down - how can you guys play around so brazenly, I really have to congratulate AMD engineers for hiding the impact of power output. You should have abstained from "all" scalar, LLC what not, but since you didn't you're constantly troubleshooting, imo.


----------



## outpt (Jul 11, 2021)

ppt,edc etc., are at stock settings as stated in my post. Only modification are temps and pbo boost settings along with voltage settings as posted.so what’s wrong? the system likes it and I’m happy.


----------



## mtcn77 (Jul 11, 2021)

outpt said:


> ppt,edc etc., are at stock settings as stated in my post. Only modification are temps and pbo boost settings along with voltage settings as posted.so what’s wrong? the system likes it and I’m happy.


Well, there are good settings and there are better settings. While edc<90% of ppt will do a fine job throttling the cpu, I don't think it is the intention should you want to get a good score.
PS: llc, scalar, curve, optimise, pbo - all bad, overclocker trash.

PS 2: 
	
	



```
125w PPT, 90A EDC
```
 vs previously established configurations 
	
	



```
105w PPT, 95A EDC
```
 or 10% higher 
	
	



```
115w PPT, 105A EDC
```
 are good checkpoints.

Essentially he landed on the same settings(120w PPT, 110A EDC). I haven't seen any guidelines on TDC, so his findings are uncontested.


Spoiler: Reddit





__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/kfpele


----------



## outpt (Jul 11, 2021)

Away from the house I have not gone back at this point and plugged in the ppt and so forth settings I was using. The main point is that the voltages I changed made pbo usable for me. There are no more system crashes. Not threw testing at this point. There are such things as using the computer.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 12, 2021)

Gah i keep getting confused since neither of you have profile pics, and your default colours look the same

good work on sorting it out Outpt


----------



## mtcn77 (Jul 12, 2021)

If you could fix moving picture avatars, I have a good solution.


Mussels said:


> Gah i keep getting confused since neither of you have profile pics, and your default colours look the same
> 
> good work on sorting it out Outpt


----------



## outpt (Aug 4, 2021)

fixed my temperature problems! I can not believe that my brand new 240 aio has been dead out of the box i now have my corsair h60 a 120ml cooler installed and it cools like a champ.
i am major pissed-off. Corsair from now on.


----------



## mtcn77 (Aug 4, 2021)

It could be the ihs-coldplate incompatibility, straight cut vs convex, you never know...


----------



## AleXXX666 (Aug 4, 2021)

Mussels said:


> You can simply tune the settings to suit your needs and temp preferences
> 
> In my case, i get my full 5.05GHz single core boost, and lost only 75MHz off my multi threaded - this DOES seem to vary board by board, so you gotta adjust.


single core is nothing but benchmark, i like 8 HT cores @ 5 GHz beter


----------



## Mussels (Aug 4, 2021)

AleXXX666 said:


> single core is nothing but benchmark, i like 8 HT cores @ 5 GHz beter


yeah... because that's possible on zen 3, sure.


----------



## gerardfraser (Aug 5, 2021)

Mussels said:


> yeah... because that's possible on zen 3, sure.


Not common but possible for sure. 5800X 5000Mhz all 16 threads all core overclock with HWinfo64. 
I would never do what Alexxx666 suggest he is running ,half CPU at higher speed but people actually do.The higher speeds are for e-peen and do nothing in reality.5800X is a beast at default for CPU.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 5, 2021)

Playing video games at 5GHz is one thing.. what else can it do at 5GHz.. everything?


----------



## Mussels (Aug 5, 2021)

gerardfraser said:


> Not common but possible for sure. 5800X 5000Mhz all 16 threads all core overclock with HWinfo64.
> I would never do what Alexxx666 suggest he is running ,half CPU at higher speed but people actually do.The higher speeds are for e-peen and do nothing in reality.5800X is a beast at default for CPU.


" This would not be prime95 stable or even be able to run P95 for 1 minute.It is a PC game."

yeah, nah.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 5, 2021)

These things are just big calculators.. what's the point in running your calculator fast if its just going to spit out bad answers all the time, or worse it cannot compute


----------



## gerardfraser (Aug 5, 2021)

Mussels said:


> " This would not be prime95 stable or even be able to run P95 for 1 minute.It is a PC game."
> 
> yeah, nah.


Oh so if you can not run prime95 stable then CPU is no good ,yeah lol


----------



## Mussels (Aug 5, 2021)

gerardfraser said:


> Oh so if you can not run prime95 stable then CPU is no good ,yeah lol


he says its not even stable for ONE MINUTE
and yes, if its not stable in prime95... its not stable.


these pointless comments about someone doing suicide runs at 5GHz with unsafe voltages and an unstable machine are really pointless, and derailing the thread from the PBO topic


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 5, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Well, there are good settings and there are better settings. While edc<90% of ppt will do a fine job throttling the cpu, I don't think it is the intention should you want to get a good score.
> PS: llc, scalar, curve, optimise, pbo - all bad, overclocker trash.
> 
> PS 2:
> ...



Lately I keep brooding over it more than I'd like to admit. It's _supposed _to be a fix for the 5800X, but being unhappy with 5900X thermals lately I thought why not take a crack at it. After all I only have MT performance to lose, since on the bigger chips the power limits don't really govern ST performance much at all.

Stock thermals were alright but Curve Optimizer made thermals.........interesting, to say the least, and not in a good way. I thought I'd start cutting down on the limits a bit, so I tried 130/90/120:






It seems like Curve Optimizer wasn't the catch-all solution AMD promised - it improves perf all around but only reduces temps on ST. So for cooling down ST we need Curve Optimizer, and for cooling down MT we still need PPT/TDC/EDC control. Unfortunately I wasn't able to do much about ST since the two usable ST cores run into a wall at -2 and -7.

But seeing the results I'm a happy camper so far. In the next few weeks I want to see if there's still room for refinement.

I found that another benefit of reducing power limits is that it reduced the core temp deltas a little bit. At stock with CO, Core 8 is almost always 13C hotter than Core 7 in an all-core load.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 5, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Lately I keep brooding over it more than I'd like to admit. It's _supposed _to be a fix for the 5800X, but being unhappy with 5900X thermals lately I thought why not take a crack at it. After all I only have MT performance to lose, since on the bigger chips the power limits don't really govern ST performance much at all.
> 
> Stock thermals were alright but Curve Optimizer made thermals.........interesting, to say the least, and not in a good way. I thought I'd start cutting down on the limits a bit, so I tried 130/90/120:
> 
> ...


You should try a new generation Thermalright cooler.. the coldplate and mounting pressure are fantastic. I saw a 6-8c drop by switching from LGMRT to FC140. And I thought LGMRT was godly..  Also the AMD mount is nearly identical to Noctuas.. I think. Very easy to install.

Wow FC140 is now available in white.. dammit looks good.

Thermalright TR FC140 AGHP heatpipe Dual Tower CPU Cooler with C12PRO G+D14X Cooling fan TPC 275W for 115X 1200 2011 2066 AM4|Fans & Cooling| - AliExpress

And I saw the PA120 when I was buying FC140.. I still might buy it for my 5600X. I like it.

Thermalright PA120 WHITE ARGB 6 Heatpipe Double 120mm PWM Fan For LGA2066 1200 115x AM4 CPU Cooling fans|Fans & Cooling| - AliExpress


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 5, 2021)

freeagent said:


> You should try a new generation Thermalright cooler.. the coldplate and mounting pressure are fantastic. I saw a 6-8c drop by switching from LGMRT to FC140. And I thought LGMRT was godly..  Also the AMD mount is nearly identical to Noctuas.. I think. Very easy to install.
> 
> Wow FC140 is now available in white.. dammit looks good.
> 
> ...



I only have 144mm of cooler clearance    otherwise I would've switched to the U12A long ago

I can only fit the Fuma 2 (not really better), TF Silver Arrow 130 (not better), Dark Rock TF (not better), or any of TF's 120-on-tiny-heatsink "Mini" coolers (definitely not better). And none of them can provide airflow for the B-die unfortunately


----------



## outpt (Aug 5, 2021)

after cooler change and some pbo + co tuning  72C.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 5, 2021)

outpt said:


> after cooler change and some pbo + co tuning  72C.



72C in Bench or Stress Test? I can do "72C" at 142W too, it becomes 78-79C when I actually stress test.

CPU-Z MT benchmark lasts like a total of 5 seconds


----------



## outpt (Aug 5, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> 72C in Bench or Stress Test? I can do "72C" at 142W too, it becomes 78-79C when I actually stress test.
> 
> CPU-Z MT benchmark lasts like a total of 5 seconds


i will take care of that brb

not to bad. no temp. limits. on a Corsair H60


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 5, 2021)

outpt said:


> i will take care of that brb
> 
> not to bad. no temp. limits. on a Corsair H60



Thats decent. What about Stress Test in CPU-Z for 5-10min?


----------



## outpt (Aug 5, 2021)

here's what i have done: PPT=115W,EDC=90A,EDC=110A,PBO+25mhz
VDDG CCD 0.900V,VDDG IOD 0.950V DRAM 1.370V
Curve Optimizer -3,-7,-15,-14,-15,-14,-13,-14 this is for cores 0-7   not though here.
CO and PBO do not play together thus the +25mhz
Memory at stock
Most up to date bios for mother board.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Aug 5, 2021)

I'm running a 5600x I've been scoring 11,720-11,660 on all core and only 1,502-1444 on single thread. I'm only running my ram at 3266mhz it's only 3200mhz ram Corsair Vengeance pro RGP 16Gbs. I think my Infinity fabric might be a bottleneck now ?
I seem to be stuck at 4,730mhz all core, and single thread 4848mhz. The temps are only 73C on all core and only like 53C on single thread  I'm on an AIO corsair H150i elite.


----------



## AleXXX666 (Aug 10, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Playing video games at 5GHz is one thing.. what else can it do at 5GHz.. everything?


i run my 10700K 24/7@5 GHz. why use it at stock, lol. 0,3 GHz free boost, but still!


----------



## freeagent (Aug 10, 2021)

AleXXX666 said:


> i run my 10700K 24/7@5 GHz. why use it at stock, lol. 0,3 GHz free boost, but still!


I was referring to the 5800X with an all core OC @ 5GHz. Modern Intel CPU’s should be able to do 5GHz without batting an eye with near stock volts lol. I just had my doubts on stability with the 5800.


----------



## authorized_to_ill (Aug 18, 2021)

EDIT: Hoping someone call help me identify where I went wrong with my attempt to cool this cpu. After 2 weeks of seemingly being stable I started getting WHEA 18 (APIC ID: 0) restarts. These consistently happen when I attempt to download through the Microsoft Store.

My specs:

Ryzen 7 5800x
EK AIO 240
Asus Crosshair VIII Dark Hero
G. Skill Triden Z Neo 16GBx2 3600 CL16-16-16-36
Asus ROG Strix 3070
Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1TB
Seasonic Focus GX-850

First I set DOCP to Standard (timings were automatically set to 16-16-16-36) and set FCLK ot 1800.
In an attempt to tame temps, I messed with CO and did -5 on all cores (didn't realize even that could be too much for one of them at the time).
Later I learned about PBO and ultimately settled on the same settings I found from the mentioned Reddit discussion (PPT=120, TDC=75, EDC=110).

Everything seemed stable. However, the restarts started happening when I attempted to download Sunset Overdrive from the MS store.
Disabling CO (or set to Auto?) didn't help. Then I changed PBO to settings I thought were previously stable. Nothing. So finally I hit F5 in bios and defaulted to "Optimized settings", then changed DOCP to 3200mhz (same timings) and FCLK ot 1600.

Issue seems to have disappeared. Was able to download again and no more WHEA errors. However, I am back to high temps and my RAM is now below the advertised 3600mhz.

I hope someone can help me better understand where I went wrong and how I might still be able to help my cpu temps. I've seen some of the success posts like those from @outpt, but since I don't fully understand it I don't want to just copy and paste settings. Especially since ram and FCLK seemed to have played a major part in my particular instance. Any insight or advice would be incredibly appreciated.


----------



## Cheese_On_tsaot (Aug 18, 2021)

Sitting at a comfy 4750mhz max boost and only hitting 66c on my cooler.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 18, 2021)

I am using 200 ppt 140 tdc and 180 edc -30 +200 and she boosts pretty good.

Edit:

Whoops mistook the 8 for a 9.. but. I run that with my 5600X too.


----------



## Space Lynx (Aug 18, 2021)

Cheese_On_tsaot said:


> Sitting at a comfy 4750mhz max boost and only hitting 66c on my cooler.



this is the best way to be, find the perfect balance between great temps, and enough cpu speed -99.99% of games don't even know the difference between a few hundred mhz


----------



## natr0n (Aug 18, 2021)

I got a 5800x coming in a day or 2. Very excite !!!


----------



## Mussels (Aug 18, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> this is the best way to be, find the perfect balance between great temps, and enough cpu speed -99.99% of games don't even know the difference between a few hundred mhz


yep, this is my results after 24 hours of gaming and mining










70C max (GPU pre-heating the loop, with gaming and mining at the same time... cpu alone is around 50C) and seeing the true max boost of a 5800x, at 5.05GHz


----------



## outpt (Aug 18, 2021)

_1.525V is normal for you in this instance. I’ve seen 1.5V on mine but  never higher _


----------



## authorized_to_ill (Aug 18, 2021)

I've edited my previous post to contain the most relevant information. Hoping someone can help me out or point me in the right direction.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 18, 2021)

outpt said:


> _1.525V is normal for you in this instance. I’ve seen 1.5V on mine but  never higher _


Pretty sure I’ve seen 1.55 a couple of times  

Usually between 1.5-1.535 at the tippy top for single core stuff.


----------



## Cheese_On_tsaot (Aug 18, 2021)

Wow is 1.5v not high as fck for ZEN 3?

If not then I have loads of headroom, my chip only boosts on 1.41v of voltage.


----------



## freeagent (Aug 18, 2021)

Cheese_On_tsaot said:


> Wow is 1.5v not high as fck for ZEN 3?
> 
> If not then I have loads of headroom, my chip only boosts on 1.41v of voltage.


Yup its out of my hands 

Edit:

I saw similar behavior with my old 3600XT and my 5600X


----------



## outpt (Aug 18, 2021)

authorized_to_ill said:


> I've edited my previous post to contain the most relevant information. Hoping someone can help me out or point me in the right direction.


reset to docp settings and now test. leave off any CO settings. my chip dose not any combination of CO and pbo overclocking. you might be in the same boat. i have ran core cycler over night without any errors.  my main testing platform is any tomb raider(SoTTR or RoTTR). core cycler dosen't equal stability. your problem is a down load. how high are our temps.?
what kind of whea errors are you getting?


----------



## authorized_to_ill (Aug 18, 2021)

outpt said:


> reset to docp settings and now test. leave off any CO settings. my chip dose not any combination of CO and pbo overclocking. you might be in the same boat. i have ran core cycler over night without any errors.  my main testing platform is any tomb raider(SoTTR or RoTTR). core cycler dosen't equal stability. your problem is a down load. how high are our temps.?
> what kind of whea errors are you getting?



According to HWinfo, when I use Cinebench R23 my max temp on CPU (Tctl/Tdie) = 86, CPU Die (average) = 85.6, and CPU CCD1 (Tdie) = 87.5. When I adjusted PBO (when I thought I was stable) my max temps were in the low 70s.

For whatever reason attempting to download a game through the MS store consistently made my PC restart when I had the PBO and CO settings adjusted (and DOCP at 3600 FCLK at 1800).
Event viewer showed the following:

"A fatal hardware error has occurred.

Reported by component: Processor Core
Error Source: Machine Check Exception
Error Type: Bus/Interconnect Error
Processor APIC ID: 0"

Resetting the bios and bring the DOCP down to 3200mhz and FCLK to 1600 made the issue go away.


----------



## outpt (Aug 19, 2021)

That’s the  memory controller, infinity fabric error. Memory problems are beyond my knowledge.


----------



## authorized_to_ill (Aug 19, 2021)

outpt said:


> That’s the  memory controller, infinity fabric error. Memory problems are beyond my knowledge.



I kept assuming that the FCLK power was revealing an issue with the CPU. I guess I need to research more into the potential issue with the memory itself.  Either way, thank you for trying to help.


----------



## natr0n (Aug 20, 2021)

My chip is hitting 5050 and i even reduced volts -1.14

I can go to 1900 mclk fclk uclock too, Last chips would do 1833

have more testing to do.  also extreme excite


----------



## cobhc (Aug 20, 2021)

Can anyone explain to me why setting the same power limits results in different core clocks on different motherboards, as well as different voltages? I'm genuinely interested.

My 5800x on an Asus B550 Strix-E using 95/60/90 results in the chip drawing about 1.1V and only boosting to 4.1ghz or so in Cinebench R23 compared to the 1.2v and 4.5ghz clock that @Mussels gets in the OP.

Any knowledge on this would be appreciated, especially if I can change any settings to do with this?


----------



## freeagent (Aug 20, 2021)

cobhc said:


> Can anyone explain to me why setting the same power limits results in different core clocks on different motherboards, as well as different voltages? I'm genuinely interested.
> 
> My 5800x on an Asus B500 Strix-E using 95/60/90 results in the chip drawing about 1.1V and only boosting to 4.1ghz or so in Cinebench R23 compared to the 1.2v and 4.5ghz clock that @Mussels gets in the OP.
> 
> Any knowledge on this would be appreciated, especially if I can change any settings to do with this?


Are you using the curve optimizer? if not you should be


----------



## cobhc (Aug 20, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Are you using the curve optimizer? if not you should be


I have, but I feel like I'd need to be at -40 to get the clocks up to be near stock with the power limits set as I mentioned.


----------



## mtcn77 (Aug 20, 2021)

cobhc said:


> Can anyone explain to me why setting the same power limits results in different core clocks on different motherboards, as well as different voltages? I'm genuinely interested.
> 
> My 5800x on an Asus B500 Strix-E using 95/60/90 results in the chip drawing about 1.1V and only boosting to 4.1ghz or so in Cinebench R23 compared to the 1.2v and 4.5ghz clock that @Mussels gets in the OP.
> 
> Any knowledge on this would be appreciated, especially if I can change any settings to do with this?


It is because pbo encounters this as a three pronged solution and temperature holds the higher priority. All things being equal, just by plugging the chip on a "faster", but hotter motherboard will lead you to a lower pbo setting.


----------



## cyberloner (Aug 20, 2021)

natr0n said:


> My chip is hitting 5050 and i even reduced volts -1.14
> 
> I can go to 1900 mclk fclk uclock too, Last chips would do 1833
> 
> have more testing to do.  also extreme excite


cut voltage and higher boost mhz doesn't means you a re running the cpu top performance...... benchmark vs the default cpu you will know


----------



## Mussels (Aug 21, 2021)

Cheese_On_tsaot said:


> Wow is 1.5v not high as fck for ZEN 3?
> 
> If not then I have loads of headroom, my chip only boosts on 1.41v of voltage.


For single core boost its fine, as its the total amperage that is a danger to zen 3 - not peak voltage

all core at 1.5V would be a nice roasted CPU



cobhc said:


> Can anyone explain to me why setting the same power limits results in different core clocks on different motherboards, as well as different voltages? I'm genuinely interested.
> 
> My 5800x on an Asus B550 Strix-E using 95/60/90 results in the chip drawing about 1.1V and only boosting to 4.1ghz or so in Cinebench R23 compared to the 1.2v and 4.5ghz clock that @Mussels gets in the OP.
> 
> Any knowledge on this would be appreciated, especially if I can change any settings to do with this?



Slight variance between CPU's is normal, and then boards have different sensors that give different readings=
If you're getting lower clocks, temps and voltages - raise the limits another 10%

core offset also changes things, and may result in lower clocks (its magic and confusing, doesnt always work as expected)


----------



## outpt (Aug 21, 2021)

2 questions
how do i test memory controller/infinity fabric for errors?
what should be the voltage on the 12v rail? i am seeing 11.976v under extreme stress in occt.
my cpu is at stock settings and i am still getting whea 41 errors.

nvm I goggled it


----------



## jayjr1105 (Aug 21, 2021)

Any suggestions for a 5600X on a MSI B450 Gaming Plus (same VRM as Tomahawk with smaller heatsink)

Mostly interested in good overall performance.  Productivity isn't a big deal but game boosting would be nice.

RN I have it set to 95/80/120.  My cooler is a ID Cooling SE 225 XT with good case airflow.


----------



## outpt (Aug 21, 2021)

i THINK it is the cpu going bad!????
it passes all test trying to isolate the problem ie. cc,memtest,occt,sofroth and so on.
have gone back to a earlier bios version
set bios to opimized settings bsod/black screen reset. the cpu still boost to 4.85ghz. disable pbo, it will still boost to 4.85ghz.,but it is rock stable. what the hell is going on?


----------



## mtcn77 (Aug 21, 2021)

outpt said:


> what should be the voltage on the 12v rail?


More than 11.4v.


outpt said:


> have gone back to a earlier bios version
> set bios to opimized settings bsod/black screen reset.


As you can tell, much of the cpu's drivers come on board the bios in ryzen series. You get a uniform performance across various platforms without having to sort out motherboard OEM brand differences, so don't expect different bios versions to be the same default as before. They do change the motherboard characteristics significantly.


----------



## outpt (Aug 21, 2021)

is it not strange that pbo enabled gives 4.85ghz and bsod, but disabling pbo still gives 4.85ghz with no bsod. this is what i do not understand.


----------



## mtcn77 (Aug 21, 2021)

outpt said:


> is it not strange that pbo enabled gives 4.85ghz and bsod, but disabling pbo still gives 4.85ghz with no bsod. this is what i do not understand.


Yes, pbo sets hundreds of profiles and profile switches which one of them is more likely to crash then your oversupplied one profile. I'm not even beginning about the curve crap...


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 21, 2021)

outpt said:


> is it not strange that pbo enabled gives 4.85ghz and bsod, but disabling pbo still gives 4.85ghz with no bsod. this is what i do not understand.



It's not strange at all. I had it on certain early BIOSes on the B550M TUF and the B550M Steel Legend with the 3700X, PBO was unusable due to instability. Vendors often don't do a very good job of implementing AGESA so various features are wonky or broken. Well, it's a bit strange that it happens this late in the lifecycle, but even the current AGESA 1.2.0.3b hasn't been so kind to me either, poor CPU performance on the B550I Gaming Edge Wifi, and piss poor iGPU performance on the B550I Aorus AX.

Yes, PBO _shouldn't_ be unstable, but there are no guarantees.

PBO isn't guaranteed to give you more boost. Boost Override is what gives you more frequency over the default global freq limit, but it still depends on what your cores are capable of hitting. eg. 5900X has a ceiling of 5150MHz at +200, but mine can only do 4900-4950ish, so I don't run PBO since it already achieves those speeds at +0; 5700G has a ceiling of 4850MHz at +200, but mine top out at about 4775.


----------



## outpt (Aug 21, 2021)

going to leave settings as they are. it seems stable of course i have said that before. was hoping for 5ghz just not going to happen so its no big deal. might get a 5900x to play with.


----------



## mama (Aug 22, 2021)

I am surprised that you don't have more instability with an edc that low.

Maybe I have it all wrong but I've settled on PPT 185 TDC 125 EDC 170 for my 5900x.  I've also slapped -25 on all the cores with PBO2 except for the first and second cores for each CCD which are at -2. +50MHz on the clock and it runs super stable and cool.  Clocks boost to 4950MHz.


----------



## mtcn77 (Aug 22, 2021)

mama said:


> I am surprised that you don't have more instability with an edc that low.
> 
> Maybe I have it all wrong but I've settled on PPT 185 TDC 125 EDC 170 for my 5900x.  I've also slapped -25 on all the cores with PBO2 except for the first and second cores for each CCD which are at -2. +50MHz on the clock and it runs super stable and cool.  Clocks boost to 4950MHz.


If you don't post it while running, the residency won't be reported properly.

PS: I also don't see any core temperature measurements and too much information hiding the fact.
If you think 70°C is good, think what 60°C will become. You gain a lot of performance if you limit the temperature ramp by allowing only enough EDC for a single ccx to turbo. You can reduce quite a lot of temperature fluctuations and voltage discrepancies if you decrease EDC down to TDC.


----------



## mama (Aug 22, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> If you don't post it while running, the residency won't be reported properly.
> 
> PS: I also don't see any core temperature measurements and too much information hiding the fact.
> If you think 70°C is good, think what 60°C will become. You gain a lot of performance if you limit the temperature ramp by allowing only enough EDC for a single ccx to turbo. You can reduce quite a lot of temperature fluctuations and voltage discrepancies if you decrease EDC down to TDC.


I'm not hiding anything.  Just played Doom Eternal for an hour at 4K:


----------



## Mussels (Aug 22, 2021)

outpt said:


> i THINK it is the cpu going bad!????
> it passes all test trying to isolate the problem ie. cc,memtest,occt,sofroth and so on.
> have gone back to a earlier bios version
> set bios to opimized settings bsod/black screen reset. the cpu still boost to 4.85ghz. disable pbo, it will still boost to 4.85ghz.,but it is rock stable. what the hell is going on?


BIOS could be the issue with its PBO settings messing with your LLC settings or something similar?


----------



## outpt (Aug 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> BIOS could be the issue with its PBO settings messing with your LLC settings or something similar?


Any type pbo, co,ctr and the system becomes unstable or bios. Just going to leave as is. That 5900x beginning to look better.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 22, 2021)

outpt said:


> Any type pbo, co,ctr and the system becomes unstable or bios. Just going to leave as is. That 5900x beginning to look better.


I've heard of other people having that with various boards

Are you using the +200MHz (or lower) offset? I can imagine higher clocks causing issues, PBO itself should not break anything unless the BIOS has problems


----------



## mtcn77 (Aug 22, 2021)

mama said:


> I'm not hiding anything.  Just played Doom Eternal for an hour at 4K:


I cannot offer you any more help, Core 3 and 5 seems to be the heaviest duty runners. If they run on the same ccx(I believe), you already run with the lightest pbo setup and there is no further suggestion for me.

Had it been otherwise, I would suggest you run with a lower edc until either ccx ran with cpb and this might help with decreasing the temperature load availing better pbo activity.

Always iterate on that: temperature ramp is slower with a lower EDC limit. You might play around with a higher PPT to insure steady supply. You have a real high ratio of inactive versus active thread count. Big chips could take a lower edc to ppt ratio for this instance. I would go as low as 70% in order to test it out. Try 140A EDC, 200w PPT and slowly approach them to your regular setting, imo. If you use shortcuts while testing, you might get a result free of idle zone and this might help you figure which setting operates the cores at the highest average frequency. Even minute differences at the average cpu clock might be significant.


----------



## outpt (Aug 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I've heard of other people having that with various boards
> 
> Are you using the +200MHz (or lower) offset? I can imagine higher clocks causing issues, PBO itself should not break anything unless the BIOS has problems


As long as pbo is disabled there are no issues. pbo enabled is a crash fest. I just don’t know what the problem is. Have gone to amd forums and read all kinds of theory’s some are out there. bios changes do not resolve the issue. Really considering a rma  and getting a 5900x.
These crashes have gotten much worse over time. When I first installed the processor I could use curve optimizer without problems, not so anymore. Maybe the cpu was never stable to begin. Gaming is where all of the problems are so far.


----------



## mtcn77 (Aug 22, 2021)

outpt said:


> These crashes have gotten much worse over time.


You only need to explain what the settings are. LLC, scalar and what not... you definitely have something wrong.


----------



## jayjr1105 (Aug 23, 2021)

Man what a beast PBO is if you put the time into dialing it it.  Spent about 3 days tinkering and I think I'm finally happy with performance and thermals.  For those interested I'm using a 5600X with a ID Cooling SE-225-XT cooler in push pull config.  PBO enabled with an undervolt in curve optimizer set to -5 in BIOS.  PPT 100, TDC 70, EDC 90

This is a load with OCCT (large data set, avx2 and normal mode)


----------



## Mussels (Aug 23, 2021)

Yup! It's all about finding the right point to limit the chip, so you get 95% of all that performance, at half the damn wattage!


----------



## outpt (Aug 23, 2021)

Mussels said:


> BIOS could be the issue with its PBO settings messing with your LLC settings or something similar?


i have update to the latest  beta bios for my msi mag b550 tomahawk and it "seems" stable so far. i have set pbo limits to ppt=115,tdc=90,edc=110. no CO or added pbo oc. there have been no bsod,lockups etc. gaming is the acid test so far so good.

this chip has been out a while why are there just figuring out these bios bugs. this is crazy.


----------



## mtcn77 (Aug 23, 2021)

outpt said:


> i have set pbo limits to ppt=115,tdc=90,edc=110


I think we have told a couple of times not to do that. EDC should be 90% of PPT at most. TDC does not have to be more than 70 since it is an emergency setting. What you are trying to do is push record highs while running into issues.


----------



## jayjr1105 (Aug 24, 2021)

So I messed with the curve optimizer some more.  Set to -15 and started getting some errors in OCCT.  Set down to -10 and still a few errors but less.  Is this the only way to clear these errors up?  Does adjusting EDC/TDC/PPT do nothing for these?  Can I force PBO to just not boost as high?  I'd be happy with a 4.5 all core tubo instead of 4.6.

I guess if I bring PPT down it will naturally downclock on all core loads correct?


----------



## mtcn77 (Aug 24, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> So I messed with the curve optimizer some more.  Set to -15 and started getting some errors in OCCT.  Set down to -10 and still a few errors but less.  Is this the only way to clear these errors up?  Does adjusting EDC/TDC/PPT do nothing for these?  Can I force PBO to just not boost as high?  I'd be happy with a 4.5 all core tubo instead of 4.6.
> 
> I guess if I bring PPT down it will naturally downclock on all core loads correct?


No. Curve optimizer pushes all bins to a lower voltage afaik? You are trying to run the chip with a huge vdroop as it practically won't.
If you want to decrease fluctuation play with EDC-PPT, not with the curve. You'll make the chip hit adaptive clock vdroop correction more frequently if you play with the curve.


----------



## jayjr1105 (Aug 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> No. Curve optimizer pushes all bins to a lower voltage afaik? You are trying to run the chip with a huge vdroop as it practically won't.
> If you want to decrease fluctuation play with EDC-PPT, not with the curve. You'll make the chip hit adaptive clock vdroop correction more frequently if you play with the curve.


I'm a little confused by your reply.  So set the curve back to -5 like I had it a couple days ago and then play with PPT/EDC?


----------



## mtcn77 (Aug 24, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> Can I force PBO to just not boost as high?


You want it to slow in ST or MT? ST:EDC, MT: PPT, but readjust EDC under the threshold too if you tune PPT because you will lose its throttling along with PPT if you lower the PPT margin(EDC won't respond if PPT is the limit, will try to overshoot ST boost). Basically, watts are 2 orders less restrictive than voltage w=*i²**r. (I know I said voltage when EDC controls ampere).


----------



## outpt (Aug 24, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> So I messed with the curve optimizer some more.  Set to -15 and started getting some errors in OCCT.  Set down to -10 and still a few errors but less.  Is this the only way to clear these errors up?  Does adjusting EDC/TDC/PPT do nothing for these?  Can I force PBO to just not boost as high?  I'd be happy with a 4.5 all core tubo instead of 4.6.
> 
> I guess if I bring PPT down it will naturally downclock on all core loads correct?


Do not go all core you will lose gaming performance. I have mine set to: ppt-120,tdc-70,edc-103. These should lower temps. but keep turbo to 4.85ghz. There is no need to add +200 to your pbo oc. unless the cpu can do more. this works well for me as my chip does not like co plus 200 to pbo
Turn off CO.


----------



## mama (Aug 24, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> I'm a little confused by your reply.  So set the curve back to -5 like I had it a couple days ago and then play with PPT/EDC?


I like your fox avatar by the way.

I suggest you reset CO2 settings to 0.  Set the PPT, TDC and EDC to the default settings for the chip.  Ideally start with a fresh BIOS.  Try to find the curve in PBO2 for your chip to begin with.  Remember that the best performing cores will need more voltage so *less* of an undervolt.  You will know you have gone too far when you get WHEA errors on certain cores.  You can identify the core creating the error by using Eventviewer and CPUZ report.  Pull back the undervolt on those cores which create errors until you get a stable system.  Cinebench is okay for testing for errors but ideally you want to run the system in general use for a while.  After some testing, you might want to look at adding 25-200MHz to the clocks to see if a higher clock will hold.  Once you are happy then move on to PPT, TDC and EDC.  Step up the values but try maintaining the default ratios.  Use Cinebench to see if the changes you make are beneficial until you reach a point where you are not comfortable with the temperatures.  As another member has pointed out to me, controlling temperature is the key.

This process is not a quick fix and I'm sure others do it differently but this is the way I approach it if it's of any help.


----------



## jayjr1105 (Aug 25, 2021)

NGL, I'm kinda burned out for the time being on tweaking.  Seems very stable and cool unless I run OCCT with Large FFT's I get some errors.  Small FFT set and it's free of any errors, likely because the extra heat forces the all core turbo to 4.2 or so instead of Large FFT's hitting 4.6.  I will likely lower the CO offset from -10 to -5 and call it a day.  System is running great otherwise with all the PBO stuff and my 3060ti undervolted.

It's weird, it just seems OCCT with Large data set, normal mode, avx2 it just hates my CPU.  I can run every other combination and no errors.  Just hates large data and always throws errors.  This combination does allow the chip to all core boost to over 4.6.  I am probably too heavily tuned for all core boost when I should be more towards single core boost for gaming like you guys said.


----------



## jayjr1105 (Aug 26, 2021)

Okay I did spend a little time messing around again.  I'm 100% stable, no more errors.  I'm still unsure on how to sway the PBO to focus on single threaded performance vs. an all core turbo.  If I run a CPUZ benchmark, I am slightly above average on single core and way above average on multi.

Also just realized I'm like 3 BIOS updates out of date.  Any harm in going fully up to date with a beta BIOS on MSI B550 Gaming Plus?


----------



## mama (Aug 27, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> Okay I did spend a little time messing around again.  I'm 100% stable, no more errors.  I'm still unsure on how to sway the PBO to focus on single threaded performance vs. an all core turbo.  If I run a CPUZ benchmark, I am slightly above average on single core and way above average on multi.
> 
> Also just realized I'm like 3 BIOS updates out of date.  Any harm in going fully up to date with a beta BIOS on MSI B550 Gaming Plus?
> View attachment 214296


No harm in my view.  I'm on the most recent BIOS for my MSI board and it's an improvement with my testing of it.


----------



## outpt (Aug 27, 2021)

using the latest beta bios for my b550 tomahawk and it has cured a lot of problems. instabilites with the cpu and some usb disconects.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 27, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> NGL, I'm kinda burned out for the time being on tweaking.  Seems very stable and cool unless I run OCCT with Large FFT's I get some errors.  Small FFT set and it's free of any errors, likely because the extra heat forces the all core turbo to 4.2 or so instead of Large FFT's hitting 4.6.  I will likely lower the CO offset from -10 to -5 and call it a day.  System is running great otherwise with all the PBO stuff and my 3060ti undervolted.
> 
> It's weird, it just seems OCCT with Large data set, normal mode, avx2 it just hates my CPU.  I can run every other combination and no errors.  Just hates large data and always throws errors.  This combination does allow the chip to all core boost to over 4.6.  I am probably too heavily tuned for all core boost when I should be more towards single core boost for gaming like you guys said.



All-core tests are not how you test Curve Optimizer. Granted, for a stock 5600X with no +200 it's probably acceptable since all-core non-AVX and ST non-AVX shouldn't be far apart on clocks, but the point is to use OCCT or Corecycler to test one core at a time so it can test stability at the highest achievable ST boost clock. Once you set it up properly (been a while since I tested OCCT, a little rusty on how to set it up the core cycling mode), run it through all the cores one at a time for a fair amount of time each - Large FFT works well in both OCCT and Prime95.

The more cores you load, the more AVX you use, the more the freq drops (minimal for up to 2-3 cores, but drops appreciably after that). The more the freq drops, the more pointless the test is because the point is to see if your current curve (eg. -5) is stable on any given core at its highest boost clocks. You can still test AVX loads after making sure the SSE test is stable, just to be extra sure, but that comes after.

If all the cores are easily hitting the freq limit (4650MHz global stock limit), might be some value in trying out +200 boost override as it sounds like they have some extra ST headroom. eg. my 5600G and 5700G easily did 4650MHz (+200) and 4775MHz (+125) over their stock limits, with minimal undervolt.


----------



## jayjr1105 (Aug 27, 2021)

Here are OCCT's core cycling settings.  Should I adjust anything here?  BTW, I am now PBO + 200MHz and it's been very stable and very good temps.  Games Boost to near 4.8 at times and all around I think I am close to my goal.


----------



## tabascosauz (Aug 27, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> Here are OCCT's core cycling settings.  Should I adjust anything here?  BTW, I am now PBO + 200MHz and it's been very stable and very good temps.  Games Boost to near 4.8 at times and all around I think I am close to my goal.
> View attachment 214402



I think I set mine a little longer than the default 3 seconds. About a minute per core. I tested stability using an extremely long Corecycler config, not OCCT. Just ran OCCT later for shits and giggles. In any case OCCT offers a lot of monitoring during the graphs so you can easily tell if it's actually working as intended. 

Curve Optimizer stability is a pretty broad sliding scale in terms of what is acceptable for daily use and what isn't. It's up to you what you can put up with.

Completely meaningless: able to boot Windows
Potentially stable enough not to crash: able to run Cinebench
Probably good enough for gaming: able to pass corecycler default config
Probably good enough for most use cases: able to pass OCCT on decent
Probably good enough for 99.9% of use cases: able to pass 5+ iterations of All FFT corecycler


----------



## Mussels (Aug 28, 2021)

OCCT is stepping up! nice


----------



## Jadz1ra (Sep 1, 2021)

Hello Guys,

I am a new user here and I would like share something pretty weird with 5800x.

Below you'll see what happens to the CPU at 100% as maximum state of the CPU and at 99%.
It was recorded in idle, no background apps running, only cpu-z and windows powerplan.

how CPU Ryzen 5800x react to maximum state of CPU - Powerplan

I would like to get to know if something similiar happen to you and if it is normal for cpu to change clock speed every single second.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 1, 2021)

Jadz1ra said:


> Hello Guys,
> 
> I am a new user here and I would like share something pretty weird with 5800x.
> 
> ...


Yes. You're using a program that shows the speed of *one* core on an 8 core CPU, so its bouncing around showing various cores.
You have not locked it to 100% by changing that setting, that is NOT what it does.


----------



## Taraquin (Sep 1, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> So I messed with the curve optimizer some more.  Set to -15 and started getting some errors in OCCT.  Set down to -10 and still a few errors but less.  Is this the only way to clear these errors up?  Does adjusting EDC/TDC/PPT do nothing for these?  Can I force PBO to just not boost as high?  I'd be happy with a 4.5 all core tubo instead of 4.6.
> 
> I guess if I bring PPT down it will naturally downclock on all core loads correct?


Use core cycler and set CO individially  Some core might handle - 30, some might only do - 5.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Sep 2, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Yes. You're using a program that shows the speed of *one* core on an 8 core CPU, so its bouncing around showing various cores.
> You have not locked it to 100% by changing that setting, that is NOT what it does.


My core 3 is my best on Ryzen master and preferred core in windows. cpu-z allows you to right click and select which core you're looking at.

In CTR2.1, this 5600X is rated golden sample, My cinebench23 scores do not reflect this at all. Although I'm only running Sata SDD and not a NVMe drive. My bios is set to CSM instead of UEFI too.
I did how ever bump my SOC voltage by one step, which seemed to have given me a boost, Ryzen master shows that it's I.O die wattage double, almost tripled in some instances which is odd.
I think I'm going to bump the bus speed up very slow. My ram is rated for 3200mhz but will do 3400mhz fine.


----------



## freeagent (Sep 2, 2021)

5600X is 65w right? Overclocked it can do over 130w ppt..


----------



## outpt (Sep 2, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Use core cycler and set CO individially  Some core might handle - 30, some might only do - 5.


Core Cycler does NOT equal stability in every situation. I have used the program overnight and longer. Switch to gaming and it blue screens in less than 2 minutes.
Have gone -30 all core and various other settings. I am not though with the program at this point. According to event viewer every time it blue screens it’s core 4. I have put #4 to 0 and running to see what happens. Core 3 is at -30 as it “seems “ to be the most stable.


----------



## jayjr1105 (Sep 2, 2021)

outpt said:


> Core Cycler does NOT equal stability in every situation. I have used the program overnight and longer. Switch to gaming and it blue screens in less than 2 minutes.
> Have gone -30 all core and various other settings. I am not though with the program at this point. According to event viewer every time it blue screens it’s core 4. I have put #4 to 0 and running to see what happens. Core 3 is at -30 as it “seems “ to be the most stable.


Lately I run a small window of heaven benchmark or kombuster while stressing the CPU to get some heat from the GPU and to just give it some variety to potentially crash it if unstable.


----------



## outpt (Sep 2, 2021)

Use a lightly threaded workload for stability.
As you stated unigine heaven is good. You don’t need to run the cpu full tilt. Just something that will loop.
I assume that you know this just covering the bases.


----------



## freeagent (Sep 2, 2021)

Superpi 32m is good for single core stuff..


----------



## Taraquin (Sep 3, 2021)

outpt said:


> Core Cycler does NOT equal stability in every situation. I have used the program overnight and longer. Switch to gaming and it blue screens in less than 2 minutes.
> Have gone -30 all core and various other settings. I am not though with the program at this point. According to event viewer every time it blue screens it’s core 4. I have put #4 to 0 and running to see what happens. Core 3 is at -30 as it “seems “ to be the most stable.


I did not say that, but corecycler can identify instability in many cases, but should be supplemented with other tests like occt, tm5 usmus etc


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Sep 3, 2021)

freeagent said:


> 5600X is 65w right? Overclocked it can do over 130w ppt..


I'm right up to about 124 w PPT but I have PPT set to 310w ? only gets to about 40% on everything. :/

I'm so noob at this, I'm too use to ye olde phenom II/FX and A.O.D 

I Think I might have to Nuc this windows; setup with UEFI bios setting instead of CSM. Also Switch from Sata SSD for NVMe. 

I can't get over 1600 in cinebench23  in single thread 4,850mhz. My mutli-thread seems fine though 11,900-12,200 4550-4,700mhz


----------



## Mussels (Sep 4, 2021)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I'm right up to about 124 w PPT but I have PPT set to 310w ? only gets to about 40% on everything. :/
> 
> I'm so noob at this, I'm too use to ye olde phenom II/FX and A.O.D
> 
> ...


you can set BIOS limits to a billion, but the chip has hardcoded limits the BIOS cannot go past - which is around 130W for that chip


----------



## jayjr1105 (Sep 10, 2021)

Well since I can't ever leave well enough alone, I splurged on a 5800X and will likely sell my 5600X to a friend.  Looks like my gamble paid off so far.  Seems the silicone for the more recent 5800X's are pretty good at least for thermals.  Messed around for a good bit with PBO and such and this thing is barely warmer than my 5600X on all core loads and gaming and I haven't even touched curve optimizer yet.  I did buy a new cooler last week (Fuma 2) and paste (MX-5) and perhaps those are helping as well.  I liked the idea of having the most possible cores on a single CCD plus antonline ebay store had them for $350.  Right now PPT 125 TDC 85 EDC 120

Alright guys, what's wrong here.  After some reddit discussion, it appears my CPU won't get hot even with all PBO limits turned off during CB23.  I even reset my BIOS and pulled the CMOS battery for a good 20 minutes.  Re-enabled PBO and it just doesn't want to go higher than 120ppt on its own.  What's the deal?


----------



## Taraquin (Sep 12, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> Well since I can't ever leave well enough alone, I splurged on a 5800X and will likely sell my 5600X to a friend.  Looks like my gamble paid off so far.  Seems the silicone for the more recent 5800X's are pretty good at least for thermals.  Messed around for a good bit with PBO and such and this thing is barely warmer than my 5600X on all core loads and gaming and I haven't even touched curve optimizer yet.  I did buy a new cooler last week (Fuma 2) and paste (MX-5) and perhaps those are helping as well.  I liked the idea of having the most possible cores on a single CCD plus antonline ebay store had them for $350.  Right now PPT 125 TDC 85 EDC 120
> 
> Alright guys, what's wrong here.  After some reddit discussion, it appears my CPU won't get hot even with all PBO limits turned off during CB23.  I even reset my BIOS and pulled the CMOS battery for a good 20 minutes.  Re-enabled PBO and it just doesn't want to go higher than 120ppt on its own.  What's the deal?


What MB do you have? Could it be MB lims for that CPU? Try curve optimuzer and I bet you would be pleased with the performance at 120 ppt


----------



## jayjr1105 (Sep 12, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> What MB do you have? Could it be MB lims for that CPU? Try curve optimuzer and I bet you would be pleased with the performance at 120 ppt


MSI B550 Gaming Plus.  Should be able to dump enough power into a 5800X.  I eventually set limits to disabled in bios instead of motherboard.  This was still the hottest I could get the chip


----------



## VulkanBros (Sep 15, 2021)

Should I be worried? Just bought a 5800X and an EK-AIO 360 D-RGB.......haven't installed it yet......but after reading this thread, I am beginning to get a bit worried


----------



## Mussels (Sep 15, 2021)

VulkanBros said:


> Should I be worried? Just bought a 5800X and an EK-AIO 360 D-RGB.......haven't installed it yet......but after reading this thread, I am beginning to get a bit worried


nah, some of them just run hotter than they should with single threaded loads, until you tweak PBO a little


----------



## outpt (Sep 30, 2021)

i get zero whea errors.
What can cause event I.D 41 kernal power. everything in the system SEEMS ok.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 14, 2021)

Damnit i was about to update this, but i'm on W11 with the CPCC2 bugs and cant just yet


----------



## freeagent (Oct 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Damnit i was about to update this, but i'm on W11 with the CPCC2 bugs and cant just yet


Yup I had to snip 50MHz off the top with 11, might have been ok with just 25, but I didn't want to put the time into it..


----------



## OneMoar (Oct 15, 2021)

I can't seem to break 14k in r23 in multi thread
I got a pretty good single core score of 1562
PTT 140 
TDC 110
EDC 150
she licks about 90C during the cinbench run I may accually need to water cool this one 
gaming temps are reasonable at about 65-72c 

I how ever can not touch the max boost clock override at all setting it to ANYTHING other then 0 and it bsods on boot every time


----------



## Mussels (Oct 15, 2021)

OneMoar said:


> I can't seem to break 14k in r23 in multi thread
> I got a pretty good single core score of 1562
> PTT 140
> TDC 110
> ...


I've seen that complaint before with gigabyte boards - do you have *two* options for that, one in the main overclocking menu and one in advanced settings?
IIRC you gotta use the second one (the same one the curve voltage is in) - but i may be the other way around


----------



## OneMoar (Oct 15, 2021)

best I could get into windows was at +25
something is bugged I wonder if its falling on its face during the hand off between bios and chipset driver voltage control
my best run is 14678 maby the lotto just kicked me in the ass this time
edit: nope even +25 bsod'd after a few minutes of bf4


----------



## outpt (Oct 21, 2021)

W11 with L3 fixes and newest chip set drivers
Prefered cores are being used correctly.
i have gone in to the bios  set pbo to advanced and added 75mhz; 100mhz bombed and restarted system.
Core 4 seems to be the worst core i have never getting above 4.6ghz. went into bios and set it to -30 reboot
Core 4 now boost to ~4.825ghz. Cores 6 and 7 clock to 4.9ghz
In testing 4.825ghz is as high as it will go despite what hwinfo records. 4.775ghz is more the norm.
Running beta bios for my b550 tomahawk.


----------



## Athlonite (Oct 21, 2021)

interesting stuff I just bought an 5800X so looks like I might be an avid reader in here


----------



## Mussels (Oct 21, 2021)

Athlonite said:


> interesting stuff I just bought an 5800X so looks like I might be an avid reader in here


They're *amazing* chips, the short version is PPT (total wattage) can blow up to 140W on certain mobos, which just runs too hot for a single CCX chip.


----------



## jayjr1105 (Oct 22, 2021)

Will the PBO2 stuff apply to the 5600/5700G chips as well?  A friend has a 5600G/RTX3060 system I'm going to help him tweak a bit.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 22, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> Will the PBO2 stuff apply to the 5600/5700G chips as well?  A friend has a 5600G/RTX3060 system I'm going to help him tweak a bit.


The 5800x is unique in that it's the only CPU with all 8 cores on one CCX - and a 105W TDP (140W with PBO on)
The 5950x has 2x8 cores - but the same 105/140W limits (so with half the power per CCX on averge, duh - they run colder)

5600g and 5700g are 65W parts, so they're trouble free on the heat side as well.


----------



## Athlonite (Oct 26, 2021)

Mussels said:


> They're *amazing* chips, the short version is PPT (total wattage) can blow up to 140W on certain mobos, which just runs too hot for a single CCX chip.


ok so new CPU arrived and I installed it but the damn thing wont clock over 3800MHz it's like the 3700X that would wouldn't auto clock upwards either so had to set a all core clock of 4375 and just left it at that


----------



## Mussels (Oct 26, 2021)

Athlonite said:


> ok so new CPU arrived and I installed it but the damn thing wont clock over 3800MHz it's like the 3700X that would wouldn't auto clock upwards either so had to set a all core clock of 4375 and just left it at that


You have the same board as me, that's not correct behaviour, or a good overclock


----------



## outpt (Oct 26, 2021)

Athlonite said:


> ok so new CPU arrived and I installed it but the damn thing wont clock over 3800MHz it's like the 3700X that would wouldn't auto clock upwards either so had to set a all core clock of 4375 and just left it at that


Should do 4.85ghz out of the box or close and about 4.7ghz all core.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 26, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> Will the PBO2 stuff apply to the 5600/5700G chips as well?  A friend has a 5600G/RTX3060 system I'm going to help him tweak a bit.



Yes, full Curve Optimizer functionality on the 5600G and 5700G. I'm up to around -10 on all cores with the 5600G and 5700G, albeit I think -8 or -9 for the preferred cores. Haven't finished my corecycler testing for it yet. 

Both are trivially easy to cool if you have any 120mm tower cooler or better. 

Max +200MHz on the 5600G is 4650MHz single core and was easily achievable for every core even without CO. 5700G not so much as it's up to 4850MHz, a bit harder to max out.


----------



## Athlonite (Oct 26, 2021)

Mussels said:


> You have the same board as me, that's not correct behaviour, or a good overclock


I have the 5800X sitting on an 4550MHz all core all the time and yeah PBO just doesn't seem to work right for me and never has it's just weird


----------



## jayjr1105 (Oct 26, 2021)

Update BIOS, update chipset driver, enable PBO advanced in BIOS, set PBO to +200MHz and disable PBO limits or set them manually.  My 5800X sits at 4800MHz or so with most games.


----------



## Athlonite (Oct 26, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> Update BIOS, update chipset driver, enable PBO advanced in BIOS, set PBO to +200MHz and disable PBO limits or set them manually.  My 5800X sits at 4800MHz or so with most games.


have done that (+200 & set limits manually ) as per on here it just does act like I know it should so I've just pushed an all core OC of 4550MHz and I'm done with it


----------



## jayjr1105 (Oct 26, 2021)

PBO won't kick in for all core loads.  It's only for lightly threaded applications and gaming.  You'll never see 4.8GHz on all core loads with PBO.


----------



## Athlonite (Oct 26, 2021)

I'm semi happy with where it's at right now later when I have the time and patience I'll do some proper oc'ing and get it running right


----------



## freeagent (Oct 26, 2021)

jayjr1105 said:


> PBO won't kick in for all core loads.  It's only for lightly threaded applications and gaming.  You'll never see 4.8GHz on all core loads with PBO.


If you enable Asus performance enhancement things like TM5 will run at 4850 if it’s cool enough. 3DMark should be hitting those clocks or higher. Without APE I see 4750 in TM5. Not that it really matters anyways.. it’s just a memory tool  but 3D stuff should be making the most of those clocks..


----------



## Mussels (Oct 27, 2021)

outpt said:


> Should do 4.85ghz out of the box or close and about 4.7ghz all core.


4.4 all core with 4.85 single threaded is default behaviour

4.7 all core is extremely uncommon



Athlonite said:


> I'm semi happy with where it's at right now later when I have the time and patience I'll do some proper oc'ing and get it running right


I can literally send you my settings bruh, i could actually save my BIOS settings to a file and send it 
Make sure you're on the new W11 happy BIOS as it has other improvements, i'll go take a photo for ya
Make sure to use the advanced menu PBO, not AI tweaker
I also have negative 10 on core optimiser (lower can hurt boost clocks, but help MT. gotta find the balance)


1.15v SOC and 1.4V DRAM let me go all the way to 4GHz on this ram totally stable (but with WHEA errors) so if you wanted to try OCing the ram later, thats how


----------



## outpt (Oct 27, 2021)

4.7ghz all core and not brake a sweat. About the only thing uncommon for my cpu 


Mussels said:


> 4.4 all core with 4.85 single threaded is default behaviour
> 
> 4.7 all core is extremely uncommon


----------



## Mussels (Oct 27, 2021)

outpt said:


> 4.7ghz all core and not brake a sweat. About the only thing uncommon for my cpu


You have a 5900x, not a 5800x


----------



## OneMoar (Oct 27, 2021)

Lowering the max boost over-ride increases all core boost
50/100 seems to be the sweet spot between single thread boost and all core
Whea Warnings mean your system is unstable fullstop
it causes stuttering and other performance loss as re-transmission data is slow 
@mussles whats your IOD voltage ?


----------



## Athlonite (Oct 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> 4.4 all core with 4.85 single threaded is default behaviour
> 
> 4.7 all core is extremely uncommon
> 
> ...


Bar the ram settings that's pretty much what I have in my BOS settings and yeah already running the 4021 BIOS


----------



## Mussels (Oct 27, 2021)

OneMoar said:


> Lowering the max boost over-ride increases all core boost
> 50/100 seems to be the sweet spot between single thread boost and all core
> Whea Warnings mean your system is unstable fullstop
> it causes stuttering and other performance loss as re-transmission data is slow
> @mussles whats your IOD voltage ?


Interesting, i didnt know that

IOD is at stock, whatever that may be


----------



## OneMoar (Oct 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Interesting, i didnt know that
> 
> IOD is at stock, whatever that may be


welp there is your problem
under the vddg voltages there is two settings
vddg ccd and vddg iod

set the iod to 1.040-1.060 _imc/ i/o die voltage
set the ccd to 1.020-1.040  voltage for the ccd complex and interconnects doesn't usually need much over stock doesn't really scale with more voltage
and your wher warnings will go away keep those voltages at least 0.040 below Your LOAD vsoc voltage

*warning some boards only control that voltage as a whole number so use 1060 and not 1600 lol


----------



## Mussels (Oct 27, 2021)

OneMoar said:


> welp there is your problem
> under the vddg voltages there is two settings
> vddg ccd and vddg iod
> 
> ...


I've been doing this since the 386 days, my brain is *melting* at all these new controls and voltages


----------



## Athlonite (Oct 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I've been doing this since the 386 days, my brain is *melting* at all these new controls and voltages


How do think I feel I've doing this since the 286 days so my brains actually have leaked out onto the floor and slid away and hid someplace


----------



## Mussels (Oct 27, 2021)

OneMoar said:


> welp there is your problem
> under the vddg voltages there is two settings
> vddg ccd and vddg iod
> 
> ...


System did not like those voltages at all, led to a lot of bootlooping and fails


----------



## outpt (Oct 27, 2021)

i have run iod at .950 and ccd at .900. don't know what stock is anyway. don't make any difference in stability. I was able to get 4.925ghz stable by setting cores 2,3,4 to -30 in bios pbo to +75. tried to set pbo higher but, 4.925ghz is all it's going to do so end of story here. setting the cores as stated  killed mt performance as in 4.2ghz. using ppt=125,tdc=80,tdc=110 every thing else is stock other than docp enabled. 4.85ghz does it for me.
btw i do have a 5900x that I have not used I may sale both processor's and buy a 5950x and call it a day for the next serval years.


----------



## OneMoar (Oct 27, 2021)

Mussels said:


> System did not like those voltages at all, led to a lot of bootlooping and fails


interesting you might have one with negative voltage scaling
my research indicates that
-some chips like vsoc and nothing else
-some chips like more iod voltage and nothing else
-some chips scale negatively with more voltage usually above 1.100 VSOC but sometimes iod/>950
iod/ccd is .700 most boards set it to .900 or 1.0 when enabling xmp
amd has made this quiet 'fun'
run zen timings to get your current iod/ccd voltage


----------



## freeagent (Oct 27, 2021)

AMD has no consistency like the “other” guys. That my guess on why every chip is so different.


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2021)

Whats the max PBO settings for a 5800x? Because My D15 arrives soon 
(As in PTT TDC EDC)


----------



## outpt (Oct 28, 2021)

about 4.85ghz out of the box. Some tinkering around 5.05ghz is possible but no guarantees.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 28, 2021)

Oasis said:


> Whats the max PBO settings for a 5800x? Because My D15 arrives soon
> (As in PTT TDC EDC)


999 in every field is the max


----------



## outpt (Oct 28, 2021)

Default for ppt:142,tdc:90,edc:140


----------



## Oasis (Oct 28, 2021)

Which power settings should I have for a bit above stock? Because I have temp headroom


----------



## mtcn77 (Oct 29, 2021)

Oasis said:


> Which power settings should I have for a bit above stock? Because I have temp headroom


Take EDC .9x of PPT. Either elevate PPT to 156W, or reduce EDC to 126A.


----------



## outpt (Oct 29, 2021)

That’s where the 


Oasis said:


> Which power settings should I have for a bit above stock? Because I have temp headroom


this is where the fun starts, if you are a masochist.


----------



## Oasis (Oct 29, 2021)

Thanks


mtcn77 said:


> Take EDC .9x of PPT. Either elevate PPT to 156W, or reduce EDC to 126A.


so like PPT 156, EDC 140 and then how much for TDC?  90? 100?


----------



## outpt (Oct 29, 2021)

there is a lot more to it than ppt,tdc,edc, that's just the tip


----------



## Oasis (Oct 29, 2021)

outpt said:


> there is a lot more to it than ppt,tdc,edc, that's just the tip


I Already adjusted my Ram speed/timings, GPU, PBO2 CO and Auto OC


----------



## outpt (Oct 29, 2021)

Oasis said:


> I Already adjusted my Ram speed/timings, PBO2 CO and Auto OC


stability testing will tell you if you are going in the right direction.


----------



## Oasis (Oct 29, 2021)

outpt said:


> stability testing will tell you if you are going in the right direction.


Those tuned parts are all stable and because I'm replacing my NH-L12s to a D15 I need to adjust my PBO power settings


----------



## outpt (Oct 29, 2021)

4.7ghz AC of course.


----------



## Oasis (Oct 29, 2021)

outpt said:


> 4.7ghz AC of course.


PBO/PBO2 settings?


----------



## freeagent (Oct 29, 2021)

Oasis said:


> PBO/PBO2 settings?


Looks like an all core clock


----------



## outpt (Oct 29, 2021)

CO core 2,3,4 -30.


----------



## Oasis (Oct 29, 2021)

outpt said:


> CO core 2,3,4 -30.


Which are you best cores and pbo power limits?


----------



## outpt (Oct 29, 2021)

let's see: CO to -30 all core @4.7ghz. no real score change, but max voltage dropped from 1.431v to 1.313v


----------



## Oasis (Oct 29, 2021)

outpt said:


> let's see: CO to -30 all core @4.7ghz. no real score change, but max voltage dropped from 1.431v to 1.313v


Any AutoOC?


----------



## outpt (Oct 29, 2021)

Oasis said:


> Oasis said:
> 
> 
> > Any AutoOC?





Oasis said:


> Any AutoOC?


No RM auto over clock. Clock speeds to 47 multiplier, docp enabled. Don’t set temp limits just CO -30
Since voltages are down wonder if I can push up all core


----------



## Oasis (Oct 29, 2021)

outpt said:


> No RM auto over clock. Clock speeds to 47 multiplier, docp enabled. Don’t set temp limits just CO -30


so you can do a static overclock and PBO2 CO at the same time?


----------



## outpt (Oct 29, 2021)

Curve optimizer is under pbo. I was able to. ymmv
Since 5ghz was a no no got to make it up some way


----------



## Mussels (Oct 29, 2021)

Oasis said:


> Thanks
> 
> so like PPT 156, EDC 140 and then how much for TDC?  90? 100?


It's not like the numbers arent in the first post 

(although i do intend to tidy up the text at some point)


----------



## OneMoar (Oct 29, 2021)

-20 all core 
nothing to report


----------



## Mussels (Oct 29, 2021)

outpt said:


> let's see: CO to -30 all core @4.7ghz. no real score change, but max voltage dropped from 1.431v to 1.313v


curve optimiser doesnt work with all core clocks... neither does PBO
You're seeing VID, the requested voltage - it may not be applying that actual voltage.
And 1.4v is going to degrade that CPU hella fast

What wattage and amperage are you drawing during those tests?


----------



## mtcn77 (Oct 29, 2021)

Oasis said:


> Thanks
> 
> so like PPT 156, EDC 140 and then how much for TDC?  90? 100?


Since your cpu is currently on manual multiplier, it wouldn't apply to you.
Post your temperatures which is so essential that I'm surprised you haven't already done so.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 29, 2021)

VID and actual voltage are different, you cut off most relevant readings
seeing amps/watts is a better way to know what's being used


----------



## outpt (Oct 30, 2021)

Mussels said:


> curve optimiser doesnt work with all core clocks... neither does PBO
> You're seeing VID, the requested voltage - it may not be applying that actual voltage.
> And 1.4v is going to degrade that CPU hella fast
> 
> What wattage and amperage are you drawing during those tests?


Eh forgot no CO on all core oc


----------



## OneMoar (Oct 30, 2021)

1.4 - 1.5 is normal for lighter loads
All Core Manual OC do not exceed voltage is 1.300


----------



## Ibizadr (Oct 30, 2021)

Curve optimizer isn't only put a random number in cpu cores and puffff magic happens and it runs at high clock with low voltage.
I'm in a run at least with one month off CO and corecycler runs. I'm able to run my games at 4.8+ GHz with no problems at max 60ºc. For example I have some cores at -26 and have cores at -10. Every cpu is different, what works for me can't work to others. If anyone want more info about how I'm testing and setting my pbo+Co I gave all info I have


----------



## mama (Oct 30, 2021)

Oasis said:


> Those tuned parts are all stable and because I'm replacing my NH-L12s to a D15 I need to adjust my PBO power settings


Wait for the cooler then get into it.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 31, 2021)

OneMoar said:


> 1.4 - 1.5 is normal for lighter loads
> all core do not exceed voltage is 1.300


^ this
Auto can do higher volts because it obeys power limits, all core OC doesnt.
High amps kills the CPU's, and while no one really knows for sure we do have advice from some of the top tier OC'ers that degradation on zen 3 starts... somewhere

*Edit: this info may be incorrect. Play safe with voltages.*
Actually found a chart released by AMD about zen3, this might actually be a goldmine: "1.35v for sustained multithreading" -so i may change my recommendation to 1.35V all core if you're brave on zen 3 (but recommend 1.3v or lower)






This also makes sense, the more cores - the lower the safe voltage
(The voltages they list under "Stress" would be the goal here, i assume they accounted for Vdroop in the original number)





Apparently pre-launch, the 5800x was a 65W 5700x and they changed the PBO and rebranded it... it'd make sense why the 5800 performs so bad thermally if thats correct


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Oct 31, 2021)

Mussels said:


> ^ this
> Auto can do higher volts because it obeys power limits, all core OC doesnt.
> High amps kills the CPU's, and while no one really knows for sure we do have advice from some of the top tier OC'ers that degradation on zen 3 starts... somewhere
> 
> ...


Great info, however....
In that image in the link with the Infinity fabric that is chiplet to chiplet doesn't exist at all.
it's only the one from the chiplet to the IO die and back that's why going from CCD to CCD has a large latency hit still.

I've been watching my HWinfo on single cinebech my chip rarly uses it's 4,850mhz single thread it's usually only at 4,040mhz-4,339mhz most the run which makes no sense unless I'm temperature limited. I'm at 76C all core load is a bit high imo. I think I'm around 58C in single thread. This AIO is only a 25mm thick aluminum 360mm Radiator.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 31, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Actually found a chart released by AMD about zen3, this might actually be a goldmine: "1.35v for sustained multithreading" -so i may change my recommendation to 1.35V all core if you're brave on zen 3 (but recommend 1.3v or lower)



That official slide is sus as hell for alleging that ~1.35V is *stock *all-core Vcore for Ryzen 5000. There is not _a single instance_ of any 5600X/5900X/5950X that pulls more than even 1.25V in any respectable *all-core workload*, under *stock *conditions. One of the defining characteristics of Ryzen 5000 across the board is its revised boost algorithm that keeps Vcore low during all-core work, which is where those relatively amazing temps came from, compared to their Ryzen 3000 counterparts.

Unfortunately AGESA now imposes crippling limits on whatever it deems a power virus, so P95 is no longer a useful tool to test the chip's fitness limit and go off that. If you try that Vcore will be uselessly down at 1.0V. But I can tell you with certainty, that it isn't 1.35V.

Yes, stories of Ryzen 5000 degrading are far rarer than stories of Ryzen 3000 degrading, whatever that reason people believe. But the principles haven't changed. It's never been a matter of voltage, it's a matter of *current *combined with *temps*. Assuming you set the same OC, 4.6 @ 1.35V on a 5900X, for example:

If you're only ever gaming on your computer, you will probably never see any ill effects during your ownership, because you will probably only be loading ~2 cores (stock Vcore for that would already be higher at ~1.35-1.45V due to only 2 core load). Ballpark 80-100W at most.
If you're crunching/folding/rendering/chasing Cinebench scores for hours upon end every day, don't expect the chip to continue like that. Doubly so if you can't keep your temps under 75-80C.
Want to make sure your CPU will last? Don't run an all-core exceeding stock all-core Vcore, while loading it with all-core workloads frequently every day, at temps exceeding 75-80C.

There's a reason why the boost algorithm works the way it does.

More cores? Vcore goes down.
"Heavier" load (ie. heavier instructions, AVX)? Vcore goes down.
Temps are higher? Vcore goes down.
When deciding on an all-core OC, your thinking should work the same way.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 31, 2021)

That info was from 5000 series pre-release from MSI, there is a chance its wrong - if so i'll edit that post for people checking this thread in the future


----------



## OneMoar (Oct 31, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> That official slide is sus as hell for alleging that ~1.35V is *stock *all-core Vcore for Ryzen 5000. There is not _a single instance_ of any 5600X/5900X/5950X that pulls more than even 1.25V in any respectable *all-core workload*, under *stock *conditions. One of the defining characteristics of Ryzen 5000 across the board is its revised boost algorithm that keeps Vcore low during all-core work, which is where those relatively amazing temps came from, compared to their Ryzen 3000 counterparts.
> 
> Unfortunately AGESA now imposes crippling limits on whatever it deems a power virus, so P95 is no longer a useful tool to test the chip's fitness limit and go off that. If you try that Vcore will be uselessly down at 1.0V. But I can tell you with certainty, that it isn't 1.35V.
> 
> ...


All Core manual overclock is NOT the same as Precision boost you loose a lot of safety margin with you go all core as you are can run the cpu WIDE OPEN with no throttling other then the TDP Limit which means parts of the core that may get REALLY HOT but not necessary trip a thermal event are at risk 
I would suspect that degradation starts at some ware around 95-110A@85c for an all core manual overclock 
at 120A @ 90c I would expect the cpu to incur instantaneous damage and we know a heavy AVX workload can get you there 

and most games these days will use 4 or more threads so that point is moot a example of this is COD:Warzone It will bring 3 or 4 cores to 90%


----------



## Mussels (Oct 31, 2021)

All core disables the safeties, basically.

They poll every 1ms, a thousand updates a second - that's where clock stretching and all that comes in, but it also lets cores disable or downclock to keep things safe.

Basically, static overclocks are scary on ryzen.

Page one is updated.

If you want your settings and info reported in the first post, post a screenshot of:
1. CPU model and cooling
2. PBO settings used
3. Open Hwinfo before you start R23 and wiggle your mouse around or whatever, so it can record your boost clock too.
Then start R23 and take a screenshot near the end of the 10 min run, so we can see the all core clocks under load and heat on those settings

Example:
5800x custom water
Curve: -10 all core
+200Mhz
PPT: 110W
TDC: 90A (notice how this wasnt at 100% like the others, its too high)
EDC100A
R23: 4.45GHz all core, 63C (4.925GHz boost)




And then @GerKNG efficiency settings:
Max efficiency:
PPT: 95W
TDC:60A
EDC: 90A
56C, 4.2GHz all core load, 4.9GHz boost
Note how the PBO values all match at 100% all together - Gerky really tuned these in!




A few dozen reboots later, my "performance" values are:
Curve: -20 all core
+200Mhz
PPT: 120W
TDC: 75A
EDC: 110A

Even on custom water it sits at 70C, and the clocks ease off a little at those temps making it fluctuate
Add in some GPU heat and i can see there being zero gains at all, vs the more efficient settings

Big oof: Ran OCCT's tester changing core every 3 minutes, but just one core at a time

All core: 70C

Single core: 80C ... cause the heats more densely packed


----------



## Oasis (Oct 31, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> Since your cpu is currently on manual multiplier, it wouldn't apply to you.
> Post your temperatures which is so essential that I'm surprised you haven't already done so.


I will post PBO settings and Temps with the D15 after some more ram tuning


----------



## mtcn77 (Oct 31, 2021)

Oasis said:


> I will post PBO settings and Temps with the D15 after some more ram tuning


There has been a change of plans: post now, tune later. I wouldn't recommend  too much perfectionism, it is a destination travelled not reached...


----------



## outpt (Nov 1, 2021)

i can't help my self:4.95ghz. maybe there is hope and it's stable.


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 1, 2021)

Not sure if its just margin of error but i get somewhat a little bit more score on R23 on my older bios (Beta January 2021) vs the newer one (september, MSI Mag B550M Mortar), or maybe perhaps i just missed to teak something, gonna take a look back on my other settings 
PPT 120, TDC 85, EDC 110, CO Best core negative 5, 2nd best negative 8, the rest is 13, max temp 82C on a Corsair H60 push pull (ST: ~4850Mhz, MT ~4550Mhz - ~4650Mhz)


----------



## Mussels (Nov 1, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> Not sure if its just margin of error but i get somewhat a little bit more score on R23 on my older bios (Beta January 2021) vs the newer one (september, MSI Mag B550M Mortar), or maybe perhaps i just missed to teak something, gonna take a look back on my other settings
> PPT 120, TDC 85, EDC 110, CO Best core negative 5, 2nd best negative 8, the rest is 13, max temp 82C on a Corsair H60 push pull (ST: ~4850Mhz, MT ~4550Mhz - ~4650Mhz)
> View attachment 223178



For reference, my last test yesterday got me 15,565 in R23

Hwinfo is so much better than CPU-Z, its not worth posting CPUz screenies these days

(Okay -30 DOES crash for me, but only at true idle. any kind of load is stable.)


----------



## Athlonite (Nov 1, 2021)

Mussels said:


> For reference, my last test yesterday got me 15,565 in R23


that's a whole 100 points more than I currently get with a 4.55GHz all core OC


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 1, 2021)

When I ran moneromining on my 5600X I set at tdp limit of 45W. Using 4000cl16 tuned ram, +200 pbo and -30x4 -29x2 on CO all core speed in CB23 was actually 3.7GHz, max temp is 53C. Didn`t expect that high frequency. Voltage during load stayed at 850-856mv. IO-die uses 20-21W so the cores actually run allcore 3.7 using 24-25W. That is impressive and very efficient! At same CO+PBO and stock 76W limit it runs at 4.55-4.6GHz allcore, 72C max temp.


----------



## Ibizadr (Nov 1, 2021)

This is what I got with my CO and 10min of cinebench R23


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 1, 2021)

Mussels said:


> For reference, my last test yesterday got me 15,565 in R23
> 
> Hwinfo is so much better than CPU-Z, its not worth posting CPUz screenies these days
> 
> (Okay -30 DOES crash for me, but only at true idle. any kind of load is stable.)


Oh ok, i forgot i also have HWinfo installed on mine for a while now
Most apps remain stable on my 15-20 negative offset on curve optimizer, even cinebench, however some other CPU intensive apps such as RCPS3 PS3 emulator (while running god of war 3 in particular) are veery sensitive to CPU tuning, ive used this to determine stability of my system last time on tweaking curve optimizer and it's kind of reliable.  RyujinX a switch emulator is same but not as cpu heavy.
I wish there are some sites who use emulators as well as benchmark tools, i remember anadtech used some dolphin emulation benchmark but that is already very old.
Some may argue about the stability of emulation but from what ive tested for years, they are pretty decent


----------



## Oasis (Nov 1, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> There has been a change of plans: post now, tune later. I wouldn't recommend  too much perfectionism, it is a destination travelled not reached...


Very nearly done the memory testing around 1000% HCI Memtest, going for 1500% or so for my daily settings.  should that be enough?
I will also post my Temps for my D15/NR200(P) with different PBO settings/CO/AutoOC

I got to 1460% at I got one error  

Anyways onto PBO testing (125/90/125 w/AutoOC+200Mhz and CO -30 -23 -28 -11 -14 -24 -30 -21)
*This is on a D15 and very low fan speeds (<1000RPM) (It's easily 5-10c less at max RPM)*


----------



## Mussels (Nov 2, 2021)

I may have dremeled out the mount on my EK block, used a derbauer offset mount and put liquid metal on...

PPT: 125W (seems stuck around 121W)
TDC:75A
EDC: 110A

15,739 in R23 at 66.5C


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 2, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I may have dremeled out the mount on my EK block, used a derbauer offset mount and put liquid metal on...
> 
> PPT: 125W (seems stuck around 121W)
> TDC:75A
> ...


So the offset mount really works nicely?


----------



## Mussels (Nov 2, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> So the offset mount really works nicely?


It helps a little, as does the LM

EK shrunk the thread for the screw holes, so it didnt fit without help




Needed some badly applied LM TIM:


And now she's ready to go


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 2, 2021)

Mussels said:


> It helps a little, as does the LM
> 
> EK shrunk the thread for the screw holes, so it didnt fit without help
> 
> ...


What's your temp before using this? Some Arctice Freezer users that also comes in with an offset mount only had few/minor degrees improvement


----------



## Mussels (Nov 2, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> What's your temp before using this? Some Arctice Freezer users that also comes in with an offset mount only had few/minor degrees improvement


It was on the previous page, around 77C


----------



## Oasis (Nov 2, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I may have dremeled out the mount on my EK block, used a derbauer offset mount and put liquid metal on...
> 
> PPT: 125W (seems stuck around 121W)
> TDC:75A
> ...


Because Blender and R23 has basically the same temps as I found, isn't that a still a bit high for custom water cooling? As my little ITX PC with a D15 is only a few C higher while having higher power settings. I will test your PBO settings and R23 today  

Also which chipset driver version are you on and fan speeds?


----------



## Mussels (Nov 3, 2021)

Oasis said:


> Because Blender and R23 has basically the same temps as I found, isn't that a still a bit high for custom water cooling? As my little ITX PC with a D15 is only a few C higher while having higher power settings. I will test your PBO settings and R23 today
> 
> Also which chipset driver version are you on and fan speeds?


It shares with an RTX 3090, in aussie weather. 20C ambient is "cold" for the current season here. Fans and pump are static and dont change.


----------



## mattferris (Nov 3, 2021)

With respect to curve optimizer, if it is the case that stability problems mostly occur at idle or near idle state, would setting a Windows power plan to High Performance instead of Balanced keep the processor out of one of the lower power states where instability occurs? I.e., would we be able to realize the efficiency of a higher curve offset at full boost without suffering the instability at idle?


----------



## Mussels (Nov 3, 2021)

mattferris said:


> With respect to curve optimizer, if it is the case that stability problems mostly occur at idle or near idle state, would setting a Windows power plan to High Performance instead of Balanced keep the processor out of one of the lower power states where instability occurs? I.e., would we be able to realize the efficiency of a higher curve offset at full boost without suffering the instability at idle?


No, disabling C-states is a better choice there


----------



## mattferris (Nov 4, 2021)

Mussels said:


> For reference, my last test yesterday got me 15,565 in R23
> 
> Hwinfo is so much better than CPU-Z, its not worth posting CPUz screenies these days
> 
> (Okay -30 DOES crash for me, but only at true idle. any kind of load is stable.)


Are you running similar/same power/current PBO limits to your original post, or something new that you'll share when you finish testing?


----------



## Mussels (Nov 4, 2021)

mattferris said:


> Are you running similar/same power/current PBO limits to your original post, or something new that you'll share when you finish testing?


I've got that setting as my final OC, and i'm working on a power efficient one (although Gerkngs settings appear to be pretty good alread)

One efficient and one performance profile is all i'll need, since we have ECO mode for people who want to minimise it completely


----------



## outpt (Nov 4, 2021)

I have one performance mode(4.95ghz) and using the motherboards 95 watt eco settings. Things are alright. I have no idea why my 5800x has decided to act right unless the psu was on the way out. Think I might play with my 5900x and see what it can do other than taking up desk space


----------



## mattferris (Nov 5, 2021)

Hi. I have another question. If I set -30 curve offset on core 0, should the max Core 0 VID be lower than 1.500V by the offset? I'm trying to figure out how to tell if my curve offsets are actually taking effect.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 5, 2021)

mattferris said:


> Hi. I have another question. If I set -30 curve offset on core 0, should the max Core 0 VID be lower than 1.500V by the offset? I'm trying to figure out how to tell if my curve offsets are actually taking effect.
> 
> View attachment 223765


I dont believe VID is altered, just voltage
So it may show 1.5V there, but voltage could be lower

I guess you'd notice by lower wattage consumed, or higher clocks achieved


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 5, 2021)

mattferris said:


> Hi. I have another question. If I set -30 curve offset on core 0, should the max Core 0 VID be lower than 1.500V by the offset? I'm trying to figure out how to tell if my curve offsets are actually taking effect.
> 
> View attachment 223765



Setting an offset can have an impact on VID, but VID doesn't mean anything on Ryzen. It's not what the cores are being fed.

You're also misunderstanding what CO is about. The CO offset shifts the V-F graph. What you're describing is the traditional Vcore offset, which would for example reduce your max Vcore to 1.47V for a -0.03 offset because it's applying the same, dumb, blind offset all the time, regardless of what the CPU is doing (so -0.03V at idle, same -0.03V at full load).

With a -30 offset you should easily be able to see a difference in benchmark scores. There should be little to no difference in observed power draw, that's not how CO works.

If you want to check voltage alone, go off of SVI2 TFN and load only one specific core (corecycler script, OCCT core cycler, etc). Watch the SVI2 TFN Vcore before and after to verify the offset is working.


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 5, 2021)

Is it me or after updating bios, my 5800X can't boost to 4.55 to 4.65Ghz all core anymore on C23, with same bios settings.

Edit: My bad, forgot to set the CO type from Positive to negative for individual cores. New Bios seems to make CO a bit more stable on higher negative values, RPCS3 in particular is very sensitive to it.


----------



## mattferris (Nov 5, 2021)

I got adventurous with my system today. I have a 5800X seated on a CH8DH with a NH-D15 cooler. I ran a series of tests to try to hone in on a comfortable PBO setup. Here is what I found across four configurations. Temps were the max seen during a 10-minute CB23 MC run.

For each setup, curve optimizer was: -23 on best cores; -30 on "bad" cores
Initial Setup

PPT: 142
TDC: 95
EDC: 125
Max Temp Multi-Core: 82C
CB23: 15134
Second Test

PPT: 124
TDC: 85
EDC: 127
Max Temp Multi-Core: 76C
CB23: 14957
Third Test

PPT: 120
TDC: 75
EDC: 110
Max Temp Multi-Core: 69.8C
CB23: 14653
Fourth Test

PPT: 117
TDC: 80
EDC: 120
Max Temp Multi-Core: 71.3C
CB23: 14862

My board has something called dynamic OC switching where it can flip to a manual overclock when you cross a current threshold. I wanted to see how this stacks up against PBO so I came in initially with a 1.2V VID 46.5 multiplier (4.650GHz) switch. This seemed to work great in CB23. It was stable for a 30 minute run. Temps were in the 60s. It seemed like a slam-dunk. 

Here's the issue. I loaded Prime95 torture test and temps went into the 80s and I had a hardware failure on core 0 (in Prime95, not a WHEA or anything Windows detected). Okay, so the system is not stable. I put the multiplier down to 44.5 and tried again. Prime95 is stable there, but there are two issues that I wanted to get your opinions on.
1. Temps were hitting 80C and were really unstable
2. I was watching Ryzen master during Prime 95 and TDC was 105A, which scares the hell out of me. How scared of this should I be?

PBO usually downclocks the chip massively during a prime95 run, but the manual OC just tries to do whatever you tell it to do. Should I just switch over to Test Four from above for the safety? The reason I tried out the auto OC switcher was because the voltages I was seeing from PBO were regularly in the 1.48V area (which sounds super high to me). But it looks like the trade-off is that PBO can keep you out of dangerous situations with loads that look like Prime95.

Sorry for the long post. I've been learning a ton lately and hope to pick a few more things up today.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 6, 2021)

mattferris said:


> I got adventurous with my system today. I have a 5800X seated on a CH8DH with a NH-D15 cooler. I ran a series of tests to try to hone in on a comfortable PBO setup. Here is what I found across four configurations. Temps were the max seen during a 10-minute CB23 MC run.
> 
> For each setup, curve optimizer was: -23 on best cores; -30 on "bad" cores
> Initial Setup
> ...


Added to the front page, under a spoiler in the 5800x section

I dont think we really know what the limit for amps are with danger on these chips, tbh

Tested out what dropping the values 10% would do:
over 10C drop

Combining the remount with LM and that 10% drop in values, i'm down to 65C full load in R23, and lots lower in everything else


----------



## mattferris (Nov 6, 2021)

I have an update on mine.

I have to confess, first, that I didn't believe Mussels on not using the curve optimizer in Extreme Tweaker. All of my other PBO settings were working fine from the Extreme Tweaker menu, so I assumed my Curve Optimizer settings were in effect. Out of curiousity, I moved all of my settings over to the AMD Overclocking menu. My voltages are much lower and I'm boosting 200MHz higher than I was before.

On the settings from my fourth test (above), my CB23 score went from 14862 to 15541.

I can't stress this enough. If you are using a Crosshair VIII Dark Hero, avoid the PBO menu in Extreme Tweaker.

Edit: And this means I probably need to stress test to see if my previous curve offsets are stable, since they were never working in the first place.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 6, 2021)

Yup the PBO in the Tweaker menu is for 3000 series I think, the AMD overclocking section works best for 5000 series was my finding too.


----------



## mattferris (Nov 6, 2021)

A couple of other interesting points I should make:
1. I bought a Crosair H115i Pro XT AIO (280mm) two weeks ago to test it vs. the Noctua NH-D15. Temps were about 4C worse on the AIO
2. Now that I have curve offsets correctly applied as of this morning, I'm seeing single core boosts sustain at 5050 (I think this is the max). Gaming temps down about 5C


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Nov 6, 2021)

mattferris said:


> A couple of other interesting points I should make:
> 1. I bought a Crosair H115i Pro XT AIO (280mm) two weeks ago to test it vs. the Noctua NH-D15. Temps were about 4C worse on the AIO
> 2. Now that I have curve offsets correctly applied as of this morning, I'm seeing single core boosts sustain at 5050 (I think this is the max). Gaming temps down about 5C


you Know I've got this Corsair H150i capllex and I'm thinking I could get better out of say a alphacool Solo pump and a alphacool 360mm or even up to 560mm full copper radiator, and distilled water. Just too bad the 560mm won't fit in this Corsair 4000D airflow nice case but too small for me.


----------



## outpt (Nov 6, 2021)

What gives? Hwinfo show’s 4.95ghz but, 4.85 is sustainable all day long while I have seen 4.95 once and that was a very brief moment. pbo +150 should give me 5ghz. is this “clock stretching? Damn thing isn’t getting close to being hot.
I can turn off pbo and do 4.85 all day long.


----------



## mattferris (Nov 6, 2021)

outpt said:


> What gives? Hwinfo show’s 4.95ghz but, 4.85 is sustainable all day long while I have seen 4.95 once and that was a very brief moment. pbo +150 should give me 5ghz. is this “clock stretching? Damn thing isn’t getting close to being hot.
> I can turn off pbo and do 4.85 all day long.


Mine wouldn't go past 4.95 until I got my motherboard to use my curve offsets. HWInfo would record spikes over 5GHz, but I never saw it sustain without the curve offsets


----------



## outpt (Nov 6, 2021)

mattferris said:


> Mine wouldn't go past 4.95 until I got my motherboard to use my curve offsets. HWInfo would record spikes over 5GHz, but I never saw it sustain without the curve offsets


That’s the problem with this cpu: pbo+ or CO it will not do both together in any shape,form or fashion.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 6, 2021)

mattferris said:


> I have an update on mine.
> 
> I have to confess, first, that I didn't believe Mussels on not using the curve optimizer in Extreme Tweaker. All of my other PBO settings were working fine from the Extreme Tweaker menu, so I assumed my Curve Optimizer settings were in effect. Out of curiousity, I moved all of my settings over to the AMD Overclocking menu. My voltages are much lower and I'm boosting 200MHz higher than I was before.
> 
> ...


Fixed 

And yeah, it's a huge waste of time re-testing everything



mattferris said:


> Mine wouldn't go past 4.95 until I got my motherboard to use my curve offsets. HWInfo would record spikes over 5GHz, but I never saw it sustain without the curve offsets


And yes, you could be experiencing clock stretching, VRM limits, or PBO limits

Hell or temp limits, mine boosted further when i did the LM and remount


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 7, 2021)

After testing more rcps3 on new bios with negative CO offset of 15 and negative 5 on best cores, its a lot more stable, gonna try pushing it to negative 20


----------



## outpt (Nov 7, 2021)

Set pbo+200mhz boost behavior is 4.9ghz on cores 6&7 quite often with 4.95ghz eh showing more but not in any meaningful help. One that needs to be replaced is the aio cooler which may help.


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 8, 2021)

I ended up setting my PBO back to +50 and -30 allcore CO. Been running +200 pbo and -30x4/-29x2 for a month now. The extra 150MHz gives me 2% perf in single core, but voltages shots to 1.33-1.35V, temps to 70-75C and CPU cooler gets quite noisy for a few secs when opening apps etc even though powerdraw is only 35-45W. +50 rarely exceeds 65C, voltage maxes around 1.2-1.22V and I never hear the CPU cooler. Pwrdraw is almost the same at 30-40W, but I guess the very small hotspot due to SC boost is much cooler. I traded silence for a very slight performancedrop


----------



## Mussels (Nov 8, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> I ended up setting my PBO back to +50 and -30 allcore CO. Been running +200 pbo and -30x4/-29x2 for a month now. The extra 150MHz gives me 2% perf in single core, but voltages shots to 1.33-1.35V, temps to 70-75C and CPU cooler gets quite noisy for a few secs when opening apps etc even though powerdraw is only 35-45W. +50 rarely exceeds 65C, voltage maxes around 1.2-1.22V and I never hear the CPU cooler. Pwrdraw is almost the same at 30-40W, but I guess the very small hotspot due to SC boost is much cooler. I traded silence for a very slight performancedrop


I think thats what i'm seeing too, even with LM and custom water 75C is.... meh.

I'll try +100 and see if those bursts are tamer.


----------



## outpt (Nov 8, 2021)

Wonder how well these chips scale above say 4.8 to 4.85ghz. My 5800x doesn’t show much gain even though pbo +200 goes beyond 4.85 and holds the boost fairly well and it’s stable which is what I am more concerned with. It’s fun to play with these cpus.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 9, 2021)

My temps are still high, boosting to 75C on core 8 (and 60's on the rest)
May have done something wrong with the LM install, yay another rebuild


Update:
Okay user error: I used the derbauer ryzen 3000 offset doodad, and it had simply shifted out of place before i tightened it in. Derp.

No more 75C at idle, more like:


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 9, 2021)

Mussels said:


> My temps are still high, boosting to 75C on core 8 (and 60's on the rest)
> May have done something wrong with the LM install, yay another rebuild
> 
> 
> ...


Pbo+100 and CO? Ypu can probably run CO lower with +100 vs 200 which will boost allcore freq


----------



## Mussels (Nov 9, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Pbo+100 and CO? Ypu can probably run CO lower with +100 vs 200 which will boost allcore freq


The new temps are with +200

The temps were simply a mounting issue - and +200 doesnt seem to hurt my all core clocks


----------



## Mussels (Nov 11, 2021)

Right i think i know why i'm seeing 75C bursts:
Because i'm getting 4.85GHz all core while gaming...


----------



## freeagent (Nov 11, 2021)

Taraquin said:


> Pbo+100 and CO? Ypu can probably run CO lower with +100 vs 200 which will boost allcore freq


Your power limits are set too low if that's how its acting. Something like TM5 on both my 5600 and 5900 run at 4850. But for something more hardcore 4600-4700ish should be showing. I haven't run my 5600X is awhile, I almost forget its characteristics. I do remember it doesn't appreciate Linpack with an all core clock of 4700. I got CPU overheat warning at 85c


----------



## Mussels (Nov 11, 2021)

Okay so this is the final results of tweaking PBO to medium levels, and undervolting my 3090 to keep the loops water temp down:

(This screenshot had the values reset, so it wasnt showing results from prior to the undervolt)
seeing solid 4.8GHz all core while gaming at 60C, and the whole system (screens included) at 370W


----------



## Taraquin (Nov 11, 2021)

freeagent said:


> Your power limits are set too low if that's how its acting. Something like TM5 on both my 5600 and 5900 run at 4850. But for something more hardcore 4600-4700ish should be showing. I haven't run my 5600X is awhile, I almost forget its characteristics. I do remember it doesn't appreciate Linpack with an all core clock of 4700. I got CPU overheat warning at 85c


I meant since you probably must reduce the neg CO value quite a bit going from +100 to +200  That eats into the pwr-budget, but can be offset by more PPT, EDC etc.


----------



## Suunto (Nov 11, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Okay so this is the final results of tweaking PBO to medium levels, and undervolting my 3090 to keep the loops water temp down:
> 
> (This screenshot had the values reset, so it wasnt showing results from prior to the undervolt)
> seeing solid 4.8GHz all core while gaming at 60C, and the whole system (screens included) at 370W
> View attachment 224746



What final settings did you end up with in PBO + CO if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 12, 2021)

11.11 sale on my area and manage to order an Arctic Freezer II 240 rev4 (with updated ryzen 3000/5000 offset mount) for 80usd, time to return my ol H60 AIO to my ol 3770K office pc, can't wait to test it


----------



## Mussels (Nov 12, 2021)

Suunto said:


> What final settings did you end up with in PBO + CO if you don't mind me asking?



I dont recall if it was these, or 10% lower (thats how i was doing it, just taking 10% off and retesting and then stopped when i lapped the chip)
PBO just seems to keep boosting higher and higher as long as temps are low, and seeing all cores at 4.85 in gaming is insane


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Nov 12, 2021)

I need to redo all my setting my 5600x is too hot I'm seeing 77.8C on the hottest temperature on HWinfo. 
My I/O die doesn't even break 32C, I think I've got a chip ready for LN2 >.> I'm on Corsair 360mm H150i Capplex AIO.
either that I'm going to buy an Chrome Alphacool solo and And full copper alphacool radiator and soft tubing along with distilled water too. I might buy two cause I've got plans later on for two of them.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 12, 2021)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I need to redo all my setting my 5600x is too hot I'm seeing 77.8C on the hottest temperature on HWinfo.
> My I/O die doesn't even break 32C, I think I've got a chip ready for LN2 >.> I'm on Corsair 360mm H150i Capplex AIO.
> either that I'm going to buy an Chrome Alphacool solo and And full copper alphacool radiator and soft tubing along with distilled water too. I might buy two cause I've got plans later on for two of them.


I'm seeing spikes like that too occasionally, it's not an issue. Sometimes the chips deliberately send all the power to one core for a boost of performance, and they spike hot for a super brief period of time... the issue is if those spikes are 80+ (as the target seems to be 75C) or if constant load gets it that hot


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Nov 12, 2021)

Mussels said:


> I'm seeing spikes like that too occasionally, it's not an issue. Sometimes the chips deliberately send all the power to one core for a boost of performance, and they spike hot for a super brief period of time... the issue is if those spikes are 80+ (as the target seems to be 75C) or if constant load gets it that hot


I've been running Intel Burn test for about 8 hours or more. It never goes above that 77.5C
I'm just wondering how consistent Hwinfo is for something like cinebenchR23 cause I've noticed all threw my single core test for 90% of the test it shows the current speed to be only 4,022mhz I end up with a score around 1598-1612 for single thread. If the chip isn't hitting it's single thread load more consistently it's lacking a lot of speed. My multi core test I've had a low of 11,450ish and a high of 12,278. I see max cpu in HWinfo says 4850mhz sometimes 4875mhz but it just doesn't seem to pin it there for the cinebench single test ever. On the current in HWinfo I'll sometimes see a spike of 4,335mhz. The all core load it's consistently at 4,700-4694mhz. I'm running pbo with +200.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 12, 2021)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I've been running Intel Burn test for about 8 hours or more. It never goes above that 77.5C
> I'm just wondering how consistent Hwinfo is for something like cinebenchR23 cause I've noticed all threw my single core test for 90% of the test it shows the current speed to be only 4,022mhz I end up with a score around 1598-1612 for single thread. If the chip isn't hitting it's single thread load more consistently it's lacking a lot of speed. My multi core test I've had a low of 11,450ish and a high of 12,278. I see max cpu in HWinfo says 4850mhz sometimes 4875mhz but it just doesn't seem to pin it there for the cinebench single test ever. On the current in HWinfo I'll sometimes see a spike of 4,335mhz. The all core load it's consistently at 4,700-4694mhz. I'm running pbo with +200.


Clock stretching
Zen 2 and 3 poll at 1ms (1,000 times a second) - if you hit a thermal or power limit, they can lower down in clock speed to stay within the limits, then be right back up to max clock before it's polled again.
Remember that ST can bounce from core to core to core, within those periods and therefore not get super accurate results either - try locking it to a single core in task manager and see if the results are more consistent
Cinebench is a heavy single threaded load, you just wont see single core max off that. You see it during lighter loads, like windows use.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 12, 2021)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I've been running Intel Burn test for about 8 hours or more. It never goes above that 77.5C
> I'm just wondering how consistent Hwinfo is for something like cinebenchR23 cause I've noticed all threw my single core test for 90% of the test it shows the current speed to be only 4,022mhz I end up with a score around 1598-1612 for single thread. If the chip isn't hitting it's single thread load more consistently it's lacking a lot of speed. My multi core test I've had a low of 11,450ish and a high of 12,278. I see max cpu in HWinfo says 4850mhz sometimes 4875mhz but it just doesn't seem to pin it there for the cinebench single test ever. On the current in HWinfo I'll sometimes see a spike of 4,335mhz. The all core load it's consistently at 4,700-4694mhz. I'm running pbo with +200.



What's your polling rate? Something's not right here because your scores are fine but it's definitely not running at 4022MHz. ~1600 ST is around 4.7-4.8GHz iirc

Yes, Zen 3 does bounce the load around, but if your chip is functioning correctly it will only bounce between 2 cores on CB R23.

Try using Snapshot Polling in HWInfo settings, and try upping your polling rate. Faster polling rate should cost you a tiny bit of performance but let's see what say 200ms or 500ms looks like. Cinebench R23 ST is a pretty consistent ST test, so I honestly don't know why it's happening to you.

How hard are you pushing this 5600X that you're at 77C on a 360mm rad?


----------



## Valantar (Nov 13, 2021)

Thought I'd post my results here as I'm in the process of tuning my 5800X's BPO and Curve Optimizer settings. Currently at +100 offset, -11 for cores 0 and 1 ("best" cores), -20 for the rest, PPT 120, TDC 95, EDC 120. Cooling is my custom loop, single Corsair XR5 280mm rad in a Meshlicious with 2x Arctic P14 fans (intake, pull), Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM in a Nouvolo Aquanaut pump+block combo, PowerColor Liquid Devil Ultimate 6900 XT. "RAM+VRM" fan is a Noctua NF-A12x15 stuck inside of one side panel blowing over the pump, VRMs and RAM to aid in RAM overclocking. An EK flow indicator with the rotor removed as a micro reservoir/bubble catcher. Quick disconnects between all components, so some added restriction here. No idea about flow rates. Measurements in HWinfo were started about two minutes into the CB23 run. Running my "dynamic fast" fan/pump profile which is a bit more reactive than my typical "really quiet" profile that only reacts to changes in liquid temperatures. Still pretty quiet.



I'm not quite done tuning my CO; I was testing out -12 on the best cores yesterday but had a game crash to desktop out of the blue, so I'm back to -11 which seems stable (neither gave errors in Corecycler). Next up is increasing the offset on the remaining cores.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 13, 2021)

Valantar said:


> I'm not quite done tuning my CO; I was testing out -12 on the best cores yesterday but had a game crash to desktop out of the blue, so I'm back to -11 which seems stable (neither gave errors in Corecycler). Next up is increasing the offset on the remaining cores.



Dunno when exactly I'll move to a custom loop whether it's in this case or the next, but it looks like I will have to consult your knowledge frequently  but may require your expertise much much sooner for Aquasuite, fingers crossed

What's your setup for Corecycler? Are you still using the out of the box config without changing anything? Default config can generally get you pretty close to stable/generally indistinguishable or not problematic, but from long hours spent on Corecycler I'd be very hesitant to trust the default config with anything more than light web browsing. So far I haven't really encountered a need to test AVX, but I believe there is a lot of value in testing a much broader range of FFTs (All FFTs) for a much longer amount of time per iteration (1hr+). If you value _complete _stability for your daily system, for instance. But chances are if -12 can already pass default config repeatedly, then knocking 1-2 off that number should be just fine, if you don't want to spend endless hours on comprehensive corecycler testing.


----------



## Valantar (Nov 13, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Dunno when exactly I'll move to a custom loop whether it's in this case or the next, but it looks like I will have to consult your knowledge frequently  but may require your expertise much much sooner for Aquasuite, fingers crossed
> 
> What's your setup for Corecycler? Are you still using the out of the box config without changing anything? Default config can generally get you pretty close to stable/generally indistinguishable or not problematic, but from long hours spent on Corecycler I'd be very hesitant to trust the default config with anything more than light web browsing. So far I haven't really encountered a need to test AVX, but I believe there is a lot of value in testing a much broader range of FFTs (All FFTs) for a much longer amount of time per iteration (1hr+). If you value _complete _stability for your daily system, for instance. But chances are if -12 can already pass default config repeatedly, then knocking 1-2 off that number should be just fine, if you don't want to spend endless hours on comprehensive corecycler testing.


Let me know if I can be of any help  My Aquasuite knowledge is of the "I don't really know what I'm doing, but my hacky solutions work for me" type, which ... well, as I said, it works for me  I'm still figuring out how to use profiles and all the various logic you can set up for automatically switching between them - if anything this application has a bit too many options. But that also makes it really cool. There's also a ton of customization you can do if you are a programmer (at lest in the visualizations) which I understand exactly nothing of, and I'm constantly bumping up against limitations in the preset widgets (like there being no native way of having two datasets display in the same graph), leading me to some ... well, questionable solutions - but again, they kind of work. My per-core CPU clock+load indicator at the bottom is just a bunch of variously transparent and colored bar graphs stacked on top of each other, for example (and probably the part of the whole setup I'm the least happy with). Oh, and for some reason the default display page for the Quadro comes with some really good visualizations that don't exist as presets in the software itself, so I've been duplicating and modifying them to fit my needs. Pretty happy with its current state though!

I'm just running the stock Corecycler config, given that I started trying it out yesterday or the day before I really haven't had the time to consider whether there are better configurations. I've been running -10 all core for a couple of months, so I know that is stable as a baseline, yesterday was spent figuring out which cores were failing at -15 and where the threshold for stability for those cores lies. Seems like -11 is it, at least for now at +100. Tbh I don't have much of an idea of what I want to test for beyond "I hope nothing crashes"  My previous, entirely uninformed CO experiments showed me that instability can be _really_ unpredictable with this, so for now I'm just running Corecycler to identify any glaring issues and then using the PC as normal, hoping for the best.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Nov 13, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> What's your polling rate? Something's not right here because your scores are fine but it's definitely not running at 4022MHz. ~1600 ST is around 4.7-4.8GHz iirc
> 
> Yes, Zen 3 does bounce the load around, but if your chip is functioning correctly it will only bounce between 2 cores on CB R23.
> 
> ...



I had some stuff really high, but one thing I know this chip has improved speeds just with voltage bump. The voltage bump on the board here is says cpu NB/Soc voltage. The single thread jumped up about 200-600 points. Just from bumping that buy +1 setting.
High like up in the 335 PPT 175 TCD 165 ECD . I doubt it did anything past 125PPT. Also and curve optimizer at like negative 15-17. My all core was sustained 4,700mhz-4,705mhz My single thread was something like 4,850mhz-4875mhz. I did throw in a bump in my bus speed. Because for some reason this boards bus speed is never what it states even on auto it's like 99.8-99.5. If I set 100.065. it comes up 99.9 :/ and that's only the minimum bump for the bus speed.
Went back to what's recommended on here as a start now. The radiator is in the case it's corsair 4000D air flow. How ever I noticed behind the radiator when the fans are at full blast there isn't much air going threw the radiator, with my hand behind it, doesn't feel like a lot was being forced threw. I might just take the fans from push and put them as pull fans instead. only trouble is how to mount the radiator to the front as the fans are what's mounted to the front. Last I could use better thermal paste too, stuff I got isn't' too great.


----------



## outpt (Nov 14, 2021)

Need brains
ppt:120,tdc:75,edc:108.
cores 2,3,4, -30 other cores set to -0.
Sottr will run theses cores if i set the affinity to do so with no problems. if I set the affinity to all cores I get a system restart. these cores have been thoroughly tested. backing off the curve adds no help. does this make any sense?
btw I finally got 5.025ghz out of this thing


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 14, 2021)

Valantar said:


> Let me know if I can be of any help  My Aquasuite knowledge is of the "I don't really know what I'm doing, but my hacky solutions work for me" type, which ... well, as I said, it works for me  I'm still figuring out how to use profiles and all the various logic you can set up for automatically switching between them - if anything this application has a bit too many options. But that also makes it really cool. There's also a ton of customization you can do if you are a programmer (at lest in the visualizations) which I understand exactly nothing of, and I'm constantly bumping up against limitations in the preset widgets (like there being no native way of having two datasets display in the same graph), leading me to some ... well, questionable solutions - but again, they kind of work. My per-core CPU clock+load indicator at the bottom is just a bunch of variously transparent and colored bar graphs stacked on top of each other, for example (and probably the part of the whole setup I'm the least happy with). Oh, and for some reason the default display page for the Quadro comes with some really good visualizations that don't exist as presets in the software itself, so I've been duplicating and modifying them to fit my needs. Pretty happy with its current state though!
> 
> I'm just running the stock Corecycler config, given that I started trying it out yesterday or the day before I really haven't had the time to consider whether there are better configurations. I've been running -10 all core for a couple of months, so I know that is stable as a baseline, yesterday was spent figuring out which cores were failing at -15 and where the threshold for stability for those cores lies. Seems like -11 is it, at least for now at +100. Tbh I don't have much of an idea of what I want to test for beyond "I hope nothing crashes"  My previous, entirely uninformed CO experiments showed me that instability can be _really_ unpredictable with this, so for now I'm just running Corecycler to identify any glaring issues and then using the PC as normal, hoping for the best.



I'm probably just gonna use it for a few fans at first to get used to Aquasuite as I don't plan on going to water just yet. VIII Impact has some really weird fan header placements, hopefully the Aquaero can take over for some of the case fans so that I don't have to use the stupid PUMP header for DC case fans (only >60% speed for DC).

The default corecycler config is fine for a ballpark estimate of stability. I was a little harsh in my previous post. If all the cores can pass 5-10 iterations each, then it's fine to use that as a baseline.

After that you can go to a wider range of FFTs. Just make sure you adjust the iteration time to be appropriate for your choice of FFT. All FFT is very time-consuming, but it's hard to beat if you have the time for it. Otherwise, Heavy (30min) and HeavyShort (10min) seem to be recommended and seem to cover a good range, they're in the config file.





Better to focus on one or two cores at a time, lest you want a wack journey that looks like this (not mine):


----------



## Mussels (Nov 14, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> Dunno when exactly I'll move to a custom loop whether it's in this case or the next, but it looks like I will have to consult your knowledge frequently  but may require your expertise much much sooner for Aquasuite, fingers crossed
> 
> What's your setup for Corecycler? Are you still using the out of the box config without changing anything? Default config can generally get you pretty close to stable/generally indistinguishable or not problematic, but from long hours spent on Corecycler I'd be very hesitant to trust the default config with anything more than light web browsing. So far I haven't really encountered a need to test AVX, but I believe there is a lot of value in testing a much broader range of FFTs (All FFTs) for a much longer amount of time per iteration (1hr+). If you value _complete _stability for your daily system, for instance. But chances are if -12 can already pass default config repeatedly, then knocking 1-2 off that number should be just fine, if you don't want to spend endless hours on comprehensive corecycler testing.


Custom loops are silly fun.

Be prepared for a lot of system downtime, and ordering in extra pieces you didn't think you'd need like angled fittings, extenders, joiners, face huggers and so on.

Just remember that on ryzen you wont really get much lower temps, but you may get more sustained boosts


----------



## Valantar (Nov 14, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm probably just gonna use it for a few fans at first to get used to Aquasuite as I don't plan on going to water just yet. VIII Impact has some really weird fan header placements, hopefully the Aquaero can take over for some of the case fans so that I don't have to use the stupid PUMP header for DC case fans (only >60% speed for DC).
> 
> The default corecycler config is fine for a ballpark estimate of stability. I was a little harsh in my previous post. If all the cores can pass 5-10 iterations each, then it's fine to use that as a baseline.
> 
> ...


Wow, that is some mess. And, what, a month and a half of testing according to the dates (and likely as much before that)? No thanks!  At least I seem to have a stable baseline at my current -11/-20 setup, and I'm already pretty happy with that. We'll see how much more effort I'm willing to put into it.

The Aquaero series always kind of scared me - it has so many features and functions I wouldn't know where to begin with setting one up. Luckily the Quadro covers exactly what I need (DC fan control would be nice, but it's not a necessity). If you're just using it for a few fans it shouldn't be too overwhelming though, and I think it's a good idea to start out simple and get used to the software. That way you can have more of an idea how you want to run things once you move to water.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 14, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Custom loops are silly fun.
> 
> Be prepared for a lot of system downtime, and ordering in extra pieces you didn't think you'd need like angled fittings, extenders, joiners, face huggers and so on.
> 
> Just remember that on ryzen you wont really get much lower temps, but you may get more sustained boosts



I'm counting on it being out of commission for a long time. Whenever there's downtime I just swap with the tiny PC upstairs





I have some idea of the main components that I would use if I were to do it right now (Optimus/EK block, alphacool rads, 10/16 zmt tubes, D5 if no airflow DDC if yes airflow, etc) but the little things are really offputting for me bc I realize that I really know nothing. Fittings, choice of additives, leak testing, drain plug, etc. Which is why I'm putting it on the backburner. Not to mention the 2060 Super FE is a pain in the ASS for waterblocking, iirc Corsair and Barrow kinda can work but idk if it's worth the money on a 2-year-old midrange GPU like this



Valantar said:


> Wow, that is some mess. And, what, a month and a half of testing according to the dates (and likely as much before that)? No thanks!  At least I seem to have a stable baseline at my current -11/-20 setup, and I'm already pretty happy with that. We'll see how much more effort I'm willing to put into it.
> 
> The Aquaero series always kind of scared me - it has so many features and functions I wouldn't know where to begin with setting one up. Luckily the Quadro covers exactly what I need (DC fan control would be nice, but it's not a necessity). If you're just using it for a few fans it shouldn't be too overwhelming though, and I think it's a good idea to start out simple and get used to the software. That way you can have more of an idea how you want to run things once you move to water.



Unless you get Windows corruption or crashing/WHEAs, you can probably just leave it and be fine as long as you get past that default config baseline. Past default config corecycler, I've never had any BSODs/reboots, but I did get one Cache Hierarchy from trying something stupid.

How's the resource usage on Aquasuite? Light like HWInfo or cancer like iCue/CAM?


----------



## Mussels (Nov 14, 2021)

So make a CPU only loop for now, with the plan for adding in your next GPU.
Gives you time to learn how it all works, with a less complicated setup initially.

I used a spare test bench system and made a practise loop with no PC attached, initially - and then my budget AM4 rig after that
Key was learning how the fittings i'd chosen worked, and what made them grip tightly/come undone before going anywhere near my main system
(Main soft tubing tip: Dont get lazy and twist the tubing to tighten a fitting. it unscrews the other end... always unscrew, push hose on, re-screw)


----------



## Valantar (Nov 14, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm counting on it being out of commission for a long time. Whenever there's downtime I just swap with the tiny PC upstairs
> 
> View attachment 225099


That's a good plan - a first time custom loop will inevitably result in you missing something and needing to wait on some random fitting, especially if you're buildning somewhat small. That's the reason why I have a mix of EK, Alphacool and Barrow fittings - had to get what was available with decent delivery times while building.


tabascosauz said:


> I have some idea of the main components that I would use if I were to do it right now (Optimus/EK block, alphacool rads, 10/16 zmt tubes, D5 if no airflow DDC if yes airflow, etc) but the little things are really offputting for me bc I realize that I really know nothing. Fittings, choice of additives, leak testing, drain plug, etc. Which is why I'm putting it on the backburner. Not to mention the 2060 Super FE is a pain in the ASS for waterblocking, iirc Corsair and Barrow kinda can work but idk if it's worth the money on a 2-year-old midrange GPU like this


Some general advice: I'd strongly advise getting an air pump leak tester. It's an extra expense, but makes things _so _much easier. ZMT tubing is awesome, but be aware that you won't be doing any tight bends with it. For filling and draining, my choice would be to just add some QDCs to the loop - it's no more of a hassle than adding fill/drain ports, valves, etc., and you get the added advantage of modularity. It also makes for drastically easier filling and draining as you can just attach an external reservoir if needed (or just stick the ends of some spare tubing into your coolant bottle. I use Alphacool's industrial nylon QDCs, which while not drip-free (they lose 1-2ml of liquid per connection cycle, so keep some paper towels handy) are affordable, secure, not very restrictive, lightweight, durable, easy to install, and generally just great to work with. I exclusively use clear premix coolant - it's not necessary, but at ~€10/L and my loop requiring less than half a liter, it's not much of a cost. I left one of my previous setups for two years without draining and had zero corrosion, gunk, growth, or anything really. Didn't clean the loop at all for more than four years, and it was still pretty much spotless. I've used both EK Cryofuel and Aquacomputer DP Ultra, and both have been great. Premix saves me the hassle of figuring out which additives are worth my attention, which I like. For fittings, I have good experiences with pretty much everything I've used, though my Barrow 90° rotary connectors have stiffened to such a degree that they can't really be rotated any longer. Alphacool's rotaries feel rather loose/wobbly but don't leak, while my EK AFs are in-between, less loose and a bit harder to turn than Alphacool but still very usable after several years in service. I use barb fittings for the most part (with zip-ties), but I have some EK compression fittings for places where there's a sharp bend near the fitting, as the ZMT does have a tendency to slip off of shorter barbs if under tension. Compression fittings are a pain to screw on (always rubs my fingers raw), but are extremely secure. If you plan your loop reasonably you can avoid compression fittings entirely tough, which is a significant cost savings.


tabascosauz said:


> Unless you get Windows corruption or crashing/WHEAs, you can probably just leave it and be fine as long as you get past that default config baseline. Past default config corecycler, I've never had any BSODs/reboots, but I did get one Cache Hierarchy from trying something stupid.


Sounds good. I'll keep an eye out for anything weird.


tabascosauz said:


> How's the resource usage on Aquasuite? Light like HWInfo or cancer like iCue/CAM?


The application window when open uses ~250MB of RAM and .5-1% CPU, the main service sits between 70-120MB of RAM and .1-.7% CPU (mostly in the lower part of the range), and the profile switcher service is another 35MB of RAM and .2% CPU. Perfectly fine IMO.


----------



## ViperXTR (Nov 14, 2021)

Im good with this for now i think, tested on a hot afternoon, on fairly decent weather, max temps are 75C. I have yet to get an ACU on my new apartment


----------



## mattferris (Nov 18, 2021)

Just chiming in here with an endorsement for useful software from Mussels' original post to help tune your 5800x.

The core cycler utility is really nice for ironing out any lingering "stability" issues that might be hiding from you. It's customizable (via a well-documented ini file) and it will tell you which cores had errors. I set mine up to cycle through each core for a long time. I left, did stuff outside the house, came back and hit ctrl+C to kill the script and it spit out a message that I had errors on cores 1 and 3. I backed off my curve offsets by 2 in each core and reran without errors. 

This is a lot better than (but not necessarily a substitute for) setting a custom filter in the Windows Event Viewer and waiting for a WHEA error (which might never happen).

Obviously,I had nice soft errors in my Prime95 runs. You could get a more catastrophic error and black screen reboot. In this case, you wouldn't get to see the errors spit out by core cycler and you'd have to check event viewer for the APIC ID when you get back into Windows.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 18, 2021)

Honestly i'd forgotten to use corecycler after my latest rounds of tweaking - Mattferris reminded me





Core 3 is my highest clocking one that windows prefers a lot, kinda logical it wants more juice

Brainfart time: BIOS counts from 0, is this 3 the BIOS 3, or would it be BIOS 2 (since 1 is 0?)


----------



## mattferris (Nov 18, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Honestly i'd forgotten to use corecycler after my latest rounds of tweaking - Mattferris reminded me
> 
> View attachment 225608
> 
> ...


It’s 3 in your BIOS. Core cycled counts from 0


----------



## St54Kevin (Dec 20, 2021)

Hey guys, just joined the chat with my 5800X.
I started optimizing my CPU some weeks ago because of very bad Temps with default bios settings hitting 88-90C on a prime run. I even RMA'd my first 5800X because of it and got a new MB but nothing changed.

*First of all, my specs:*
ASUS Prime X570-Pro latest BIOS v4021
R7 5800X
4x8GB 3200 CL18 Vengance
Artic Liquid Freezer II 280mm
All Fans maxing out above 75C

*These are the settings I came up with:*
LLC Auto
PBO +50Mhz
*Limits set to keep max 80C in my CB tests:*
PPT 140W
EDC 105
TDC 100
CO (-20,-30,-30,-30,-30,-25,-30,-15)
CO values upped by 5 on the WHEA core (couple of weeks 8h/day usage, values above), I need to try this CoreCycler tool

*And these are the results I get with them (room temp 23C):*
- Idle 37C
- CB20 Multi 6152, max. 80C (average 4,692Ghz, 1,291v)
- CB20 Single 627, max. 56C (average 4,900Ghz, 1,325v)
- CB23 10min Multi 15839, max. 80C (average 4,692Ghz, 1,290v)
- Prime95 3min smallestFFT, max. 85C (average 4,560Ghz, 1,192v)
- Prime95 3min smallFFT, max. 84C (average 4,532Ghz, 1,176v)

I tried to play with the PBO Freq offset to get my single thread higher than 4900MHz, but it will either crash or skyrocket my temps to uncomfortable territories again.

BTW, I just tried the new HYDRA, but it gives me worse results at higher Temps not even running stable (reboots).

I'm open for any tips I can improve  Cheers


----------



## Mussels (Dec 20, 2021)

your curve optimiser is really aggressive, that's why you're crashing out with higher than +25Mhz


Use corecycler since you say you havent already


----------



## St54Kevin (Dec 20, 2021)

Yeah it's running for an hour now. So far no core crashes. I will let it run through the night and see wether there are errors in the morning.


----------



## Nordic (Dec 20, 2021)

I have been running all cores -10 despite ore cycler suggesting otherwise. It gives really good performance and stability is adequate for my needs. I he had one crash in 6 months.


----------



## St54Kevin (Dec 21, 2021)

Do I understand it correctly? I need to raise the CO values in order to be able to raise the boost? How much per 25MHz?


----------



## ViperXTR (Dec 21, 2021)

negative values for CO are basically undervolting steps, tone them down to be able to get more stable boost. Also those aggressive negative values may be stable on some stress test but to much CO can crash your system on low load or idle as well, find the balance.
Also, are you using Rev4 offset mount?


----------



## Mussels (Dec 21, 2021)

St54Kevin said:


> Do I understand it correctly? I need to raise the CO values in order to be able to raise the boost? How much per 25MHz?


Well of course, higher clocks need higher voltages

No one knows, every chip is different - and every core on every chip is different


----------



## St54Kevin (Dec 21, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> negative values for CO are basically undervolting steps, tone them down to be able to get more stable boost. Also those aggressive negative values may be stable on some stress test but to much CO can crash your system on low load or idle as well, find the balance.
> Also, are you using Rev4 offset mount?


I'm running this config for months now. Had to adjust two times because of a WHEA but never again. It's running fine and stable, I ran long cb23 and prime sessions to double check. No problems at all. I do not know what Rev4 offset is, so I guess not 

Also when I up the values I get into the 80s C again, despite my top of the line AIO. Because my system seems to have temp problems in general I don't want that

BTW my overnight corecycler didn't give any errors


----------



## ViperXTR (Dec 21, 2021)

St54Kevin said:


> I'm running this config for months now. Had to adjust two times because of a WHEA but never again. It's running fine and stable, I ran long cb23 and prime sessions to double check. No problems at all. I do not know what Rev4 offset is, so I guess not


If its stable on idle and on load i guess its fine. Offset mount on our arctic liquid freezer is basically an optional feature for Ryzen 3000/5000 cpus where the core of the CCD is offset the main package chip, using the offset mount makes the cold plate on the center so it will cool optimally.
You can take a look at the manual and/or under your arctic cooler box and see what revision it is. The 4th revision is the best one so far for Zen3, if you dont have it, i think you can just ask arctic about it and they will send you rev4 kit.


----------



## St54Kevin (Dec 21, 2021)

Oh yes I'm using the offset mount of my mounting system. I need to check the revision though

Okay now Im very confused. I think im not using the offset. There are different manuals online and videos mounting the cooler differently despite using 3000/5000 series. Does it need to go towards the GPU or away from it?

So it was indeed mounted in the standard holes (away from GPU)  I checked again and gained about 3C on every test except in prim95 where its the same, at least something, right?  Thanks for pointing it out again



Mussels said:


> Well of course, higher clocks need higher voltages
> 
> No one knows, every chip is different - and every core on every chip is different


Of course, but the thing with CO on my system is, with lower voltage I get higher boost clocks. I just tried to just up every CO value by +20 and did my tests again: 2-3C highter temps but in all tests nearly 150Mhz less clock. I may have already found my CPUs sweetspot


----------



## Mussels (Dec 22, 2021)

St54Kevin said:


> Of course, but the thing with CO on my system is, with lower voltage I get higher boost clocks. I just tried to just up every CO value by +20 and did my tests again: 2-3C highter temps but in all tests nearly 150Mhz less clock. I may have already found my CPUs sweetspot




Reducing voltage is giving you higher clocks, because you have less heat to deal with and/or it's keeping you within your PBO voltage limits.

If you cant get higher clocks without the massive undervolts, then it would imply your cooling or PBO settings cant keep up with the added boost


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Jan 2, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Reducing voltage is giving you higher clocks, because you have less heat to deal with and/or it's keeping you within your PBO voltage limits.
> 
> If you cant get higher clocks without the massive undervolts, then it would imply your cooling or PBO settings cant keep up with the added boost



Wait what do you mean PBOI can't keep up?
I get the cooling part, but PBO too :-/
What should be my single core score for 4850mhz (5600x)? I can't get higher than 1600 in cinebenchR23. 
I'm going to try a negative offset on Stock PBO set up late tonight when I get home from work. See if that changes anything


----------



## mama (Jan 2, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I had some stuff really high, but one thing I know this chip has improved speeds just with voltage bump. The voltage bump on the board here is says cpu NB/Soc voltage. The single thread jumped up about 200-600 points. Just from bumping that buy +1 setting.
> High like up in the 335 PPT 175 TCD 165 ECD . I doubt it did anything past 125PPT. Also and curve optimizer at like negative 15-17. My all core was sustained 4,700mhz-4,705mhz My single thread was something like 4,850mhz-4875mhz. I did throw in a bump in my bus speed. Because for some reason this boards bus speed is never what it states even on auto it's like 99.8-99.5. If I set 100.065. it comes up 99.9 :/ and that's only the minimum bump for the bus speed.
> Went back to what's recommended on here as a start now. The radiator is in the case it's corsair 4000D air flow. How ever I noticed behind the radiator when the fans are at full blast there isn't much air going threw the radiator, with my hand behind it, doesn't feel like a lot was being forced threw. I might just take the fans from push and put them as pull fans instead. only trouble is how to mount the radiator to the front as the fans are what's mounted to the front. Last I could use better thermal paste too, stuff I got isn't' too great.


Push is usually better than pull for fans and radiators.  Maybe get an extra set of fans and set up a push/pull setup?


----------



## Mussels (Jan 3, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> *Wait what do you mean PBO can't keep up?*
> I get the cooling part, but PBO too :-/
> What should be my single core score for 4850mhz (5600x)? I can't get higher than 1600 in cinebenchR23.
> I'm going to try a negative offset on Stock PBO set up late tonight when I get home from work. See if that changes anything


If you set it to 35W it's not going to boost high

Set it too high, and it'll add extra heat for no performance gain


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Jan 3, 2022)

Mussels said:


> If you set it to 35W it's not going to boost high
> 
> Set it too high, and it'll add extra heat for no performance gain



I only see that in Prime95 with AVX.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 3, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I only see that in Prime95 with AVX.


Because AVX is more power hungry than any other extension
That's why intel has an AVX offset, underclocking when AVX is used


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Jan 3, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Because AVX is more power hungry than any other extension
> That's why intel has an AVX offset, underclocking when AVX is used


I think I've found a bigger problem
widespread core temperature difference




My IOD die must be bowed outward cause it's cool but the chiplet seems to have poor contacnt on the IHS. Almost 20C difference.


----------



## phanbuey (Jan 3, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I think I've found a bigger problem
> widespread core temperature difference
> View attachment 231121
> 
> My IOD die must be bowed outward cause it's cool but the chiplet seems to have poor contacnt on the IHS. Almost 20C difference.



Or that thermal diode is off slightly or inaccurate, or the indium solder wasn't uniform or base of the cooler/mounting etc.  

Quite a few possibilities tbh.  Has remounting done anything?


----------



## Mussels (Jan 4, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I think I've found a bigger problem
> widespread core temperature difference
> View attachment 231121
> 
> My IOD die must be bowed outward cause it's cool but the chiplet seems to have poor contacnt on the IHS. Almost 20C difference.


That would have me remounting the HSF and reapplying thermal paste - IF the load levels are the same between the cores - you needed to scroll down lower and see if they were all given the same wattages under core power


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Jan 6, 2022)

Mussels said:


> That would have me remounting the HSF and reapplying thermal paste - IF the load levels are the same between the cores - you needed to scroll down lower and see if they were all given the same wattages under core power


They're like hovering around 0.8 watts to 0.5 watt difference 
I did remount it same results. I think the chiplet is concaved or something under the IHS seems core 0 and core 4 are always cooler.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 6, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> They're like hovering around 0.8 watts to 0.5 watt difference
> I did remount it same results. I think the chiplet is concaved or something under the IHS seems core 0 and core 4 are always cooler.


Yes, they are concave - as well as one side being closer to other heat generating parts of the core... but the temp difference should be well under 5C


Turns out my recent temp spikes were due to coolant clogging up my loop... AGAIN


doing another vinegar flush, sigh


----------



## Athlonite (Jan 6, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> seems core 0 and core 4 are always cooler.


You might find that they're the shit cores that won't clock as high


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Jan 6, 2022)

Athlonite said:


> You might find that they're the shit cores that won't clock as high


Nope, this chip is actually a really good clocker it's actually the opposite according to HWinfo lol
My effective all core load clock is 4695-4699mhz. Where those two cores effective clock speed is 4,816mhz
With a little bus speed overclock these two cores have high 4,950mhz. I'm not using an NVMe SSD here, just a Sata SSD.
I probably should get a better power supply, because I don't have the 4pin cpu plug plugged in because this corsair CX 650M PSU only had the 8 pin CPU plug.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 6, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> Nope, this chip is actually a really good clocker it's actually the opposite according to HWinfo lol
> My effective all core load clock is 4695-4699mhz. Where those two cores effective clock speed is 4,816mhz
> With a little bus speed overclock these two cores have high 4,950mhz. I'm not using an NVMe SSD here, just a Sata SSD.
> I probably should get a better power supply, because I don't have the 4pin cpu plug plugged in because this corsair CX 650M PSU only had the 8 pin CPU plug.


Dude a 4 pin can probably handle your CPU, let alone 8 or 12


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Jan 23, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Dude a 4 pin can probably handle your CPU, let alone 8 or 12


I know when fully loaded the GPU and CPU and it only puts out about 400 watts in total. Coming from a phenom II 1090T that would pull up around 300 watts on over clock at 4.2Ghz on water for the cpu alone; a HD 5870 2GB Eyefinity edition in crossfire (_I've had great luck with cpu's lately_) to this whole setup being only 100 more than the cpu with a gpu's that's about 12 times faster and a cpu that's around almost 3 times faster in single thread and 4 times faster in multi was huge step up. I'm probably going to Drop in more ram and a that 5800x 3D when out. Then bundle sell the cpu, powersupply, and ram, throw in a 1030 GT for someone on the cheap.


----------



## pf100 (Jan 30, 2022)

I tried lots of different pbo settings as recommended in this thread and settled on manually setting my 5800x's pbo settings to what "eco mode 95w" sets it to which is ppt 128w, tdc 80a, and edc 125a. Then I set curve optimizer to all core -5 because it crashed once at -10 so I just left it at -5. I left clock override at stock. Now I have 10 degree cooler temps with my noctua nh-d15s with an added nf-a12x25 fan on the front. It was running at 82c at sustained full load stock and now it's around 72c. Gaming performance is awesome and is around 70c. With full load multicore I lost a little performance but I don't care because it's not a lot and I don't do full load multicore stuff very often anyway. I like it like this and it works so well I'll probably never touch it again.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 30, 2022)

pf100 said:


> I tried lots of different pbo settings as recommended in this thread and settled on manually setting my 5800x's pbo settings to what "eco mode 95w" sets it to which is ppt 128w, tdc 80a, and edc 125a. Then I set curve optimizer to all core -5 because it crashed once at -10 so I just left it at -5. I left clock override at stock. Now I have 10 degree cooler temps with my noctua nh-d15s with an added nf-a12x25 fan on the front. It was running at 82c at sustained full load stock and now it's around 72c. Gaming performance is awesome and is around 70c. With full load multicore I lost a little performance but I don't care because it's not a lot and I don't do full load multicore stuff very often anyway. I like it like this and it works so well I'll probably never touch it again.


Next up is tweaking individual cores with the optimiser and finding which ones can go lower

Some can do -30 while others do -5
I used OCCT with its core swapping setting, corecycler can do it too

Just remember that if you change the setting that lets you add upto 200Mhz boost, it'll possibly become unstable and require tweaking again


----------



## pf100 (Jan 30, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Next up is tweaking individual cores with the optimiser and finding which ones can go lower
> 
> Some can do -30 while others do -5
> I used OCCT with its core swapping setting, corecycler can do it too
> ...


Thanks for the OCCT tip. I didn't know about that method. I found a reddit post about it here saying to use OCCT's Small Data Set, SSE instructions, 1T and set affinity to the core you're testing. If you have more or better info on methods to set and test curve optimizer with the least amount of agony I would appreciate it. I'd like to avoid having to reboot 100 times and spend a whole day on it. About core boost, I've had set it to +200 before and it boosted to 5050 mhz but I don't think that actually matters in real life over the stock setting does it? I ask because I just left it stock because I figured it would increase stability and reduce crashing. I'm extremely impressed with the performance of the 5800x and is the first cpu I've ever had that I didn't feel a need to overclock it, but I do want the best performance for the least heat.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 31, 2022)

OCCT has a setting to cycle cores, or lock the affinity - makes it pretty simple.

Set -5, test all of em
If stable, try -10
etc

The moment you start getting errors on any cores, drop back to the stable setting and manually lower the ones that had no issues, and test away... it can be slow, but stressing just the one core i have no issues using web/gaming at the same time


----------



## Cutechri (Jan 31, 2022)

Kind of pointless to worry about temps on Zen 3, an aggressive architecture designed to redline your CPU temps for the highest boosts possible. If the CPU's voltage regulator is running (which it is if you leave the CPU stock), you don't need to worry about anything unless there's significant cooler noise due to the increased temps, but this has been an issue since Zen 2. In that case just tune the fan curves or get better cooling.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 31, 2022)

Cutechri said:


> Kind of pointless to worry about temps on Zen 3, an aggressive architecture designed to redline your CPU temps for the highest boosts possible. If the CPU's voltage regulator is running (which it is if you leave the CPU stock), you don't need to worry about anything unless there's significant cooler noise due to the increased temps, but this has been an issue since Zen 2. In that case just tune the fan curves or get better cooling.


the 5800x behaves different to every single other zen 3 chip, thats why theres so much focus on it

Theres a bit of silicon lottery too, with ~15C variance between samples depending on IHS flatness and internal TIM solder quality (i've had someone troubleshooting temp issues swap out CPU's between systems,  and some simply run hotter)


----------



## Cutechri (Jan 31, 2022)

Mussels said:


> the 5800x behaves different to every single other zen 3 chip, thats why theres so much focus on it
> 
> Theres a bit of silicon lottery too, with ~15C variance between samples depending on IHS flatness and internal TIM solder quality (i've had someone troubleshooting temp issues swap out CPU's between systems,  and some simply run hotter)


Yeah, it is indeed the hottest Zen 3 part and that's no surprise given the die layout.


----------



## kiddagoat (Feb 2, 2022)

I decided to go with an all-core OC.  The PBO was giving me up to 80C on my 5900x even with some tweaking and curve optimizations.

Now I don't go over 60C ever and I can keep a solid 4.2GHz clock on my CPU.  My system startup appears to be snappier and I don't see any slowdowns in gaming or other tasks.

DVDFab seems to like it more as well.


----------



## Ibizadr (Feb 2, 2022)

I don't understand but my 5800x with artic liquid freezer 240, stays in gaming never passes 60ºc and on r23 multi 72ºc. And I have my PPT, EDC and TDC at +35% from original and +200mhz. PBO2 - 30 all core, except for 3, best core do - 17 second best - 11 and for some reason core 7 only reach - 20 on curve optimizer. Never have issues or crashes


----------



## freeagent (Feb 2, 2022)

The quieter my system runs the warmer it runs.. I am only guessing, but many people focus on silence rather than high performance.


----------



## Ibizadr (Feb 2, 2022)

freeagent said:


> The quieter my system runs the warmer it runs.. I am only guessing, but many people focus on silence rather than high performance.


I think that too since I have my fan rad at full throttle at 60ºc


----------



## mama (Feb 2, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> I don't understand but my 5800x with artic liquid freezer 240, stays in gaming never passes 60ºc and on r23 multi 72ºc. And I have my PPT, EDC and TDC at +35% from original and +200mhz. PBO2 - 30 all core, except for 3, best core do - 17 second best - 11 and for some reason core 7 only reach - 20 on curve optimizer. Never have issues or crashes


So what's the problem?


----------



## Mussels (Feb 2, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> I don't understand but my 5800x with artic liquid freezer 240, stays in gaming never passes 60ºc and on r23 multi 72ºc. And I have my PPT, EDC and TDC at +35% from original and +200mhz. PBO2 - 30 all core, except for 3, best core do - 17 second best - 11 and for some reason core 7 only reach - 20 on curve optimizer. Never have issues or crashes


the liquid freezer/II are literally the best AM4 AIO's on the planet

Low threaded is where mine bounces to the moon at stock settings, i can get 60C multi threaded but 80C bursts dragging minesweeper around


----------



## Ibizadr (Feb 2, 2022)

mama said:


> So what's the problem?


Only a PoV why you quoted?



Mussels said:


> the liquid freezer/II are literally the best AM4 AIO's on the planet
> 
> Low threaded is where mine bounces to the moon at stock settings, i can get 60C multi threaded but 80C bursts dragging minesweeper around


Yeap the burst on this processor bounce temperature radically. Only open hwinfo and its spikes from idle 3xºc to 4xºc in a second, but after it returns to its normal. This is aio its absolutely nuts, the only mistake I made was buy 240 when 280 its the correct one for me. I buy it to put it on top and then my rams and my case don't let me put it on top so on front 280 was a better deal.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 2, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> Only a PoV why you quoted?
> 
> 
> Yeap the burst on this processor bounce temperature radically. Only open hwinfo and its spikes from idle 3xºc to 4xºc in a second, but after it returns to its normal. This is aio its absolutely nuts, the only mistake I made was buy 240 when 280 its the correct one for me. I buy it to put it on top and then my rams and my case don't let me put it on top so on front 280 was a better deal.


I'd see spikes of 80-85C, while load was at 60C


Half the issue is the motherboards IMO, certain brands do dumb shit to boost performance that you cant disable


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Feb 3, 2022)

I run my 5800X at Eco 65w which is an 87w PPT.  This translates to an all-core clock of around 4.2 GHz and about 60C temp.

Without Eco 65w, it would run with an 141w PPT, 4.6 GHz. and 95C temp (with fan screaming bloody murder all of the time).

This is BOINC 100% load.  400 MHz isn't worth nearly doubling the power draw, in my view.


----------



## Hoper (Feb 12, 2022)

my rig is ballin out of control

5800x
x570 unify
5050 mhz
64 gig 3600
nvme raid
1500 watt ups
1000 watt psu
gtx 970 4 gig
all on water.
tops @ 60 c


----------



## ntdouglas (Feb 13, 2022)

Is anybody getting this kind of boosting on there 5600x? This blows away my 3600 to say the least. It'll  stay all core like this for 10-12 seconds.


----------



## mama (Feb 13, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> Is anybody getting this kind of boosting on there 5600x? This blows away my 3600 to say the least. It'll  stay all core like this for 10-12 seconds.


Yep.  And it gets better with a bit of Curve Optimisation...


----------



## ntdouglas (Feb 13, 2022)

Never messed with that. Care to elaborate?


----------



## Mussels (Feb 13, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> Never messed with that. Care to elaborate?


Semi-automated undervolting, less volts means less heat - so higher boost

Do it too far and it's unstable at idle, usually


----------



## thesmokingman (Feb 13, 2022)

Cutechri said:


> Yeah, it is indeed the hottest Zen 3 part and that's no surprise given the die layout.


No, look at the TDP divided by the number of cores. The 5800 has more power available to each core vs any other part in its lineup.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 13, 2022)

thesmokingman said:


> No, look at the TDP divided by the number of cores. The 5800 has more power available to each core vs any other part in its lineup.


Both views are correct
By Die layout, they mean 8 cores in a single CCX - and then it has the high wattage on top.

The newest AGESA might be working on that with the 1.45V VID cap


----------



## thesmokingman (Feb 13, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Both views are correct
> By Die layout, they mean 8 cores in a single CCX - and then it has the high wattage on top.
> 
> The newest AGESA might be working on that with the 1.45V VID cap


I don't think so as far as die layout. The 5800 is no different than low core count dies which then get the full TDP classification cpus in other segments like the 3960x which is a 24 core TR which gets a lot more power per core. The fact is each core is getting more power, running at a much higher state. Just guessing that its cuz there's 8 cores in a die is just guessing. You guys do realize that AMD have other chips with 8 core per die as a normal starting base right? And then with the TR Pro lineup they released even more low core count TR with higher TDP. Compare the 5900x vs the 3945x, note the staggering difference in TDP class.


----------



## tabascosauz (Feb 14, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> Is anybody getting this kind of boosting on there 5600x? This blows away my 3600 to say the least. It'll  stay all core like this for 10-12 seconds.



That's not all-core, that's just another application that isn't programmed to read Effective/average/snapshot frequency. If it was actually 4850MHz all-core load you wouldn't be looking at 45C even with your AIO. Run HWInfo on another monitor if you have one, and you can see what the cores are actually doing.

Cores-wise Ryzen 5000 doesn't behave differently at a fundamental level. It just clocks higher with less Vcore and has a bigger CCX to work with.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Feb 14, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> Is anybody getting this kind of boosting on there 5600x? This blows away my 3600 to say the least. It'll  stay all core like this for 10-12 seconds.


I've gotten up 4,915mhz on my 5600x with a slight Bus speed bump. You have a golden sample like mine in CTR 
Might does that too usually I read HWinfo for the real.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 14, 2022)

Giving this new BETA bios with the AGESA update a shot


----------



## HD64G (Feb 14, 2022)

FordGT90Concept said:


> I run my 5800X at Eco 65w which is an 87w PPT.  This translates to an all-core clock of around 4.2 GHz and about 60C temp.
> 
> Without Eco 65w, it would run with an 141w PPT, 4.6 GHz. and 95C temp (with fan screaming bloody murder all of the time).
> 
> This is BOINC 100% load.  400 MHz isn't worth nearly doubling the power draw, in my view.


Me thinks that disabling PBO at stock settings and settings the power limit at 105W could be the best combo for performance/temps/acoustics.


----------



## Hoper (Feb 14, 2022)

none of this oc matters. there is only 2 options to consider.
1. thermal ceiling limit
2. the 200 mhz overboost.

Now that we got that out of the way. We are all stuck with a glaring problem.... Cooling.
If you want better cooling. get a delta fan @ 10,000 rpm. 
AIO and Open loops are just too weak to cool any further.
We need an entire new thinking on how to cool these processors and no one has come up with a viable solution.


----------



## Taraquin (Feb 14, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> Never messed with that. Care to elaborate?


In bios under advanced you can select curve optimizer and set a undervolt offset pr core. What this does is running the selected core at a lower voltage. Only risk is unstability, but it cannot destroy components.

On my 5600X I currently run C1: -27, C2: -29 and rest on -30 and PBO + 200. In cinebench this ups my boost at 76W PPT from 4.3GHz- avg to 4.6GHz avg at same temp\consumption which boost score by 6%. In SOTTR I got about 5% more fps using this setting vs stock with no CO+PBO. If you wanna try it use core cycler to find the rough scheme, then adjust cores individually after checking event viewer if you get reboots later. Corecycler gets it 99% stable. I had to lower core 1 by 2 more and core 2 by 1 after a few months.



FordGT90Concept said:


> I run my 5800X at Eco 65w which is an 87w PPT.  This translates to an all-core clock of around 4.2 GHz and about 60C temp.
> 
> Without Eco 65w, it would run with an 141w PPT, 4.6 GHz. and 95C temp (with fan screaming bloody murder all of the time).
> 
> This is BOINC 100% load.  400 MHz isn't worth nearly doubling the power draw, in my view.


Try curve optimizer and +200 pbo, you can still run 65W, but you will get +200 single core and about 2-300MHz more allcore if you are lucky with binning, a PPT of around 100W would probably get you to around 80C max and using CO you will probably get allcore of 4.6 then


----------



## Athlonite (Feb 14, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Giving this new BETA bios with the AGESA update a shot


Keep us in the loop I have the same mobo and was looking at it the only thing that was putting me off flashing it was it's Beta designation otherwise I would have been on it like white on rice


----------



## pf100 (Feb 14, 2022)

Hoper said:


> none of this oc matters. there is only 2 options to consider.
> 1. thermal ceiling limit
> 2. the 200 mhz overboost.
> 
> ...


A Delta fan at 10,000 rpm wouldn't make any difference. There's a limit to the heat that can be transferred away from the cpu. The problem is that you have one tiny chip on the corner of the 5800x that produces all the heat. You can't improve that without de-lidding it and since it's soldered on and would break the chip to take the lid off, there's nothing you can do about that. So the viable solution is what this thread is all about: use a great cooler with good contact and thermal paste and limit the power in such a way that it doesn't reduce performance.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 15, 2022)

HD64G said:


> Me thinks that disabling PBO at stock settings and settings the power limit at 105W could be the best combo for performance/temps/acoustics.


the 95-115 range is where i found its sweet spot

The heat issue isnt about the cooler, its about the IHS.
It's like when intel went away from soldering, except users cant fix this one.

AMD needs a re-design, the 3D cache may help work as a heatsink/better IHS contact


----------



## ntdouglas (Feb 15, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Semi-automated undervolting, less volts means less heat - so higher boost
> 
> Do it too far and it's unstable at idle, usually



Mussels whats man. ts been awhile. Yeah I've been reading about it. Might try might not. I'm not quite the tinkerer I used to be lol. Last night I put a -5 all core and didnt see anything.



DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I've gotten up 4,915mhz on my 5600x with a slight Bus speed bump. You have a golden sample like mine in CTR
> Might does that too usually I read HWinfo for the real.


Hope so. The game was just loading thats why the temps are so low. It maxes out around 63c. But still getting 4800-4825 all core boost. What did you bump the bus up tp?


----------



## taakefyrsten (Feb 18, 2022)

In case someone with the same questions as I do come and read here. These are some data for reference about thermals and performance.

_5800X
3080TI Air cooled
Gigabyte Aorus elite ax v2 rev 1.0
Meshify C - 2x NF-A14 Front intake, NF-A14 top rear exhaust, NF-A12x25 Rear exhaust. Fans running at 40-50% until 65c, then slowly ramp up to 100% at 85c_

Tested at ~22c ambient

*PPT *111 *EDC *74 *TDC *117
Curve offset: -21 -15 -30 ... -30

*CPUZ*
SC: 660-670 
MC: 6850

*R23  *
SC: ~1600
MC: 153XX-low 15400 | *NH-U12A* - _75-76c_ | *SilentiumPC Fera 5 DualFan* _80-81c_

*R20 *
SC: 624 |  _*NH-U12A *_- _64c_
MC 6020 |  _*NH-U12A *_- _75c_*







PPT *130w *EDC *xx *TDC *xx
Cinebench R23 multicore 
*NH-U12A*_ - 89.8c - 15300_



*Cyberpunk 10 minute idle*
NH-U12A - 74-75c
SilentiumPC Fera 5 DualFan 77-82c

*Metro Exodus numbers of the top of my head from playing the game*
NH-U12A - 63-70c
SilentiumPC Fera 5 DualFan 65-75c

*Jedi Fallen Order*
NH-U12A - 64-73c
SilentiumPC Fera 5 DualFan N/A

Note that the Fera5 was a fantastic cooler for the price, but the single tower cooler saturates very quickly and the fan has to ramp for minor stuff such as opening a program which the U12A doesn't have to ramp for.


----------



## ntdouglas (Feb 23, 2022)

So I messed with this all weekend on and off with no positive results so I got fed up and put pco back to default settings and disabled it. Now my 5600 is boosting 200 mhz slower. Rebooted and went into bios and reset to optimum settings and I'm still down 200 mhz. Kinda stumped. But I was thinking with over 2 dozen bios changes would cmos reset be in order? Also I seen that mussels recommends using the pbo section in Ai tweaker. Everything I've read says to use pbo in the advanced menu so what gives? What is everybody here using? Any input would on both questions would be appreciated.


----------



## de.das.dude (Feb 23, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> So I messed with this all weekend on and off with no positive results so I got fed up and put pco back to default settings and disabled it. Now my 5600 is boosting 200 mhz slower. Rebooted and went into bios and reset to optimum settings and I'm still down 200 mhz. Kinda stumped. But I was thinking with over 2 dozen bios changes would cmos reset be in order? Also I seen that mussels recommends using the pbo section in Ai tweaker. Everything I've read says to use pbo in the advanced menu so what gives? What is everybody here using? Any input would on both questions would be appreciated.



maybe i can help? what are you boosting to?


----------



## ntdouglas (Feb 23, 2022)

I was 4.85ghz. Now 4.65-4.7.


----------



## de.das.dude (Feb 23, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> I was 4.85ghz. Now 4.65-4.7.


well mine does 4.65 with default settings on all cores.

i have never seen it go to 4.85.

At 4.65 it is already at 110W consumption. which is almost double the designed power.

are you sure it was on all cores? because few cores goes that high


----------



## ntdouglas (Feb 23, 2022)

Look at my screeshot on page 13. Do you have autooc enabled?


----------



## Ibizadr (Feb 23, 2022)

Do





ntdouglas said:


> I was 4.85ghz. Now 4.65-4.7.


 Do you update your bios recently?


----------



## ntdouglas (Feb 23, 2022)

Yep on the latest. 4021


----------



## Mussels (Feb 24, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> I was 4.85ghz. Now 4.65-4.7.


You have to add the +200Mhz in PBO to get the higher boost

If you're on the new agesa, it boosts lower than previous BIOS did


----------



## ntdouglas (Feb 24, 2022)

What's up mussels. Yeah 200mhz is enabled. I was gonna clear cmos but then I thought maybe it's the ambient Temps up here in Chicago. It was in the 50's for 2 days. Colder than hell tonight though. I'll check it out tonight.

I'm on bios 4021 stable. Are you talking about the beta you flashed?

What about ai tweaker verses advance menu for pbo Mussels? I think most use advanced pbo menu for overclocking. Your findings?


----------



## de.das.dude (Feb 24, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> Look at my screeshot on page 13. Do you have autooc enabled?


that game screenshot one?
its not even loading all the cores. so that screenshot really has no value. PBO works by optimizing how much cooling you get under load, while taking into account your silicons TDP etc.
since its very hard to reach tdp with a few cores, that limit wont be hit and you will almost always get higher clocks.

run some aida64 stress test or cinebench to load all cores at 100%. that is the real boost clock and use hwbot to monitor.

i have seen it randomly jump to 4.8ghz on few cores while gaming, but that is meaningless.

the real clock is what you end up with after 30mins of full load. for me its 4.65 and i dont have a really good radiator. just a normal 100$ antec one with good fans in push pull as an intec.
Plus its stupid hot here.


----------



## Ibizadr (Feb 24, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> Yep on the latest. 4021


Maybe it's not a bug maybe it's a "feature"
If you do some research with last agesa bios most of people can't get the max boost you got in the past.


----------



## Taraquin (Feb 24, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> Maybe it's not a bug maybe it's a "feature"
> If you do some research with last agesa bios most of people can't get the max boost you got in the past.


There is a voltage limit in agesa 1.2.0.5 that is a bit lower than previous agesas. If you don't use CO then boost might be limited due to this.


----------



## ntdouglas (Feb 24, 2022)

de.das.dude said:


> that game screenshot one?
> its not even loading all the cores. so that screenshot really has no value. PBO works by optimizing how much cooling you get under load, while taking into account your silicons TDP etc.
> since its very hard to reach tdp with a few cores, that limit wont be hit and you will almost always get higher clocks.
> 
> ...


I was wondering why it was boosting when not all were loaded. But still something has changed because it doesn't do that since I tried undervolting. Weird.


----------



## OneMoar (Feb 24, 2022)

not sure I have a problem with the voltage limit of ~1.46v

what I really want is a way to tell pbo to stop going into boost clocks when the cpu isn't doing anything
at <20% utilization it should not be boosting all cores


----------



## Ibizadr (Feb 25, 2022)

OneMoar said:


> not sure I have a problem with the voltage limit of ~1.46v
> 
> what I really want is a way to tell pbo to stop going into boost clocks when the cpu isn't doing anything
> at <20% utilization it should not be boosting all cores


I think this is normal. On my system it's normal and I think it's because even at<20 utilization the cpu need to handles a lot of things so I think it's normal but I'm not an engineer.


----------



## Mussels (Feb 25, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> What's up mussels. Yeah 200mhz is enabled. I was gonna clear cmos but then I thought maybe it's the ambient Temps up here in Chicago. It was in the 50's for 2 days. Colder than hell tonight though. I'll check it out tonight.
> 
> I'm on bios 4021 stable. Are you talking about the beta you flashed?
> 
> What about ai tweaker verses advance menu for pbo Mussels? I think most use advanced pbo menu for overclocking. Your findings?


I mean, i've got an entire two asus boards here: of course yours may behave different. I think its mostly a problem if the two pages have different settings - i think i've seen PBO settings listed upto four times on one board.

The new AGESA does boost less, but in reality the performance loss is tiny. It's going to reduce those temp spikes for a lot of people as well


----------



## ntdouglas (Feb 27, 2022)

Been tuning each core a little bit. Probably a stupid question but here goes. In ryzen master cores 2 and 4 are preferred and all cores are numbered 1 through 6. In curve they are numbered 0 through 5. Is core 2 from ryzen master really core 1 in curve?


----------



## OneMoar (Feb 27, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I mean, i've got an entire two asus boards here: of course yours may behave different. I think its mostly a problem if the two pages have different settings - i think i've seen PBO settings listed upto four times on one board.
> 
> The new AGESA does boost less, but in reality the performance loss is tiny. It's going to reduce those temp spikes for a lot of people as well


id like to test it but the VDDG voltage control is still broken  I have opened multiple tickets with gagablow and they keep closing them saying they can't reproduce the issue despite multiple other people also opening tickets


----------



## pf100 (Feb 27, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> Been tuning each core a little bit. Probably a stupid question but here goes. In ryzen master cores 2 and 4 are preferred and all cores are numbered 1 through 6. In curve they are numbered 0 through 5. Is core 2 from ryzen master really core 1 in curve?


The way to handle that is to look at whatever you're using, no matter what utility or bios, and see what number the core count starts and ends with, as long as it shows the correct number of cores and compare them that way. Ryzen Master starts at 1 and in your case ends in 6. In the bios the core count starts at 0 and ends with 5. So yes, core 2 in Ryzen Master is core 1 in the bios. In any case where the number starts with 1 compared to something where it starts with 0 it will be that way.


----------



## ntdouglas (Feb 27, 2022)

pf100 said:


> The way to handle that is to look at whatever you're using, no matter what utility or bios, and see what number the core count starts and ends with, as long as it shows the correct number of cores and compare them that way. Ryzen Master starts at 1 and in your case ends in 6. In the bios the core count starts at 0 and ends with 5. So yes, core 2 in Ryzen Master is core 1 in the bios. In any case where the number starts with 1 compared to something where it starts with 0 it will be that way.


Thanks man. I thought so but just wanted to make sure.


----------



## Athlonite (Feb 28, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> Been tuning each core a little bit. Probably a stupid question but here goes. In ryzen master cores 2 and 4 are preferred and all cores are numbered 1 through 6. In curve they are numbered 0 through 5. Is core 2 from ryzen master really core 1 in curve?


in PC world 0 is always the first number so 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 so yes core 1 is actually the second core on your CPU


----------



## pf100 (Feb 28, 2022)

Athlonite said:


> in PC world 0 is always the first number so 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 so yes core 1 is actually the second core on your CPU


Obviously not because Ryzen Master starts at core 1.


----------



## outpt (Feb 28, 2022)

Did not Intel start the Core 0 naming scheme and some but not all label it as they wished? You can always use cpu-z if there’s any doubt


----------



## Athlonite (Feb 28, 2022)

pf100 said:


> Obviously not because Ryzen Master starts at core 1.


Task Manager starts at 0


----------



## pf100 (Mar 1, 2022)

Task manager starts at 0. Bios starts at 0. Ryzen Master starts at 1. CPU-Z starts at 0.
You have to look at the number that whatever you're using starts at.
Almost everyone is missing that everything doesn't start at 0.
If you're using Ryzen Master or any other utility that starts at 1, and you're thinking "everything starts at 0" you will be wrong and you'll be doing things with the wrong core.


----------



## Hoper (Mar 1, 2022)

5800x
x570 unify
CB-23 of 16050
5,050 ghz @ 38c idle @ 82c ish max load
WUT?


----------



## Mussels (Mar 2, 2022)

Hoper said:


> 5800x
> x570 unify
> CB-23 of 16050
> 5,050 ghz @ 38c idle @ 82c ish max load
> WUT?


That is bang on for what a 5800x should do, with the +200Mhz in the BIOS


Hell, you can go back and find me with screenshots basically the same - even our stsock RAM speeds are similar


----------



## freeagent (Mar 2, 2022)

Yup should be able to at least kiss 5050


----------



## OneMoar (Mar 2, 2022)

I am not getting anything close to 1600 in r23 without cranking on the power limits 
127/95/140 gets me barely 14k


----------



## Mussels (Mar 2, 2022)

OneMoar said:


> I am not getting anything close to 1600 in r23 without cranking on the power limits
> 127/95/140 gets me barely 14k


Checked your IF is 1:1?
Getting WHEA errors?

Yo ram be crazy fast, has me suspishus


----------



## OneMoar (Mar 2, 2022)

never did update that ram in the specs its crucial micron e die 3600 CL 16
and yes its running 1:1
even with pbo limits on auto I barely clip 15k at 140w
not a single whea error out of this system ever since I exchanged the cpu

Even setting it to board defaults the score is barely 15k

other then cinebench being wierd it games all day at 4750-4800Mhz at <65c


----------



## Mussels (Mar 2, 2022)

Uhh, cause you're hitting 90C and throttling?

That um, explains it all

Lower your PPT and use a curve, your cooling cant handle it.


----------



## OneMoar (Mar 2, 2022)

naa doesn't matter I get about the same scores at 125/95/140 at <80c
I have the thermal throttle limit manually set to 90c


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 2, 2022)

why does it seem like PPT means more than anything for temperature? 

EDC and TDC don't change much on my chip, maybe all core over clock or single thread changes a little bit. Like not all cores are consistent at the same clock then. From 100w down to 90w ppt yields lower temps while scoring about the same in cinebenchr23.

Last night I tested the 5600x setting on here the 90w/ 75TDC / 100 EDC then tried 100w/75TDC/100 EDC score didn't change too much, temps were 10C lower with 90w PPT.
The tried 90w / 85TDC / 110 EDC scores about the same maybe only 5c lower temps.

I don't know if I should trust HWinfo, it shows that if I set 125w PPT but EDC at 120 it will stop at 120w PPT and won't go any further in HWinfo.


----------



## OneMoar (Mar 2, 2022)

PPT is basicly personal pref as much as your cooler can handle because all-core is heavily affected by this 
lower edc = higher boost clocks
tdc no idea what this does really


----------



## Athlonite (Mar 3, 2022)

OneMoar said:


> I have the thermal throttle limit manually set to 90c


I think it's HW64 showing wrong temps because I'm getting the same sort of reading and I know damn well it aint that hot


----------



## Mussels (Mar 3, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> why does it seem like PPT means more than anything for temperature?
> 
> EDC and TDC don't change much on my chip, maybe all core over clock or single thread changes a little bit. Like not all cores are consistent at the same clock then. From 100w down to 90w ppt yields lower temps while scoring about the same in cinebenchr23.
> 
> ...


PPT is the all core wattage limit, basically.

These chips lose efficiency  after 100W, where the heat builds up fast with minimal performance gain - so it comes down to choosing a value between 100W and 142W (the chips max) that works within your cooling.
Overheating and hitting 90C is going to lower your clocks and performance
 keeping the wattage lower is gunna be colder AND faster.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 3, 2022)

Mussels said:


> PPT is the all core wattage limit, basically.
> 
> These chips lose efficiency  after 100W, where the heat builds up fast with minimal performance gain - so it comes down to choosing a value between 100W and 142W (the chips max) that works within your cooling.
> Overheating and hitting 90C is going to lower your clocks and performance
> keeping the wattage lower is gunna be colder AND faster.


I haven't gotten above 82C on prime95 with just Small FFT with *AVX on*, cinebenchr23 is 10C lower it's also like 300mhz higher lol
My current issues seems to be my VRM loop 1 is hotter then VRM loop 2 whey they should mirror each other. I wonder if it just has bad contact.
Just now change my EDC from 125 to 85 = better Cinebenchr23 score both single and Multi. guess I'll try to lower the wattage and see what it gets.


----------



## Taraquin (Mar 3, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> why does it seem like PPT means more than anything for temperature?
> 
> EDC and TDC don't change much on my chip, maybe all core over clock or single thread changes a little bit. Like not all cores are consistent at the same clock then. From 100w down to 90w ppt yields lower temps while scoring about the same in cinebenchr23.
> 
> ...


For 5600X there is little point going above 76W default limit, especially uf you use CO. Running -30 CO allcore and +50 pbo I get multicore boost in CB to 4.6-4.65GHz if temp is below 71-72C. If I set 90W limit consumption gets to 85W and allcore sits at 4.675-4.7GHz. This gives me 200points in CB23, but noise and heat is up significantly. 

CB23:
- 200 pbo and CO -27,-29,-30x4, 90W: 76C, 88W, 4.75-4.6GHz, 12050p, voltage max 1.34v, fan rpm 1200.
-50 pbo and CO -30x6, 90W: 74C, 85W, 4.7-4.675GHz, 12050p, voltage max 1.22v, fan rpm 1200
-50 pbo and CO -30x6, 76W: 70C, 76W, 4.625-4.6GHz, 11850p, voltage max 1.22v, fan rpm 1200

I use the latter since sustained clocks are higher due to lower temp. My CPU gets a 50-100MHz drop in allcore frequency if temp goes from 71 to 76C.


----------



## ntdouglas (Mar 6, 2022)

Is this in line with most 5600x.


----------



## oobymach (Mar 6, 2022)

I found with the 5600x running -30 allcore gave a system freeze/fubar as soon as a demanding task ended. -25 with the +50 pbo runs fine though until it gets hot.

I stopped messing with pbo because of the throttling I kept running into, p95 second round is a killer when all workers are running it I got throttling regardless of the pbo settings.

Atm I'm running a 1.2v manual 4.65ghz and temps have never been lower, idling in the 30's and p95 maxes out at 62 degrees.


----------



## oobymach (Mar 9, 2022)

Decided to try pbo again with the 5600x after running into issues with the 1.2v manual, running +200mhz with -8 allcore and 125watt 75a 100a and the maintained boost during p95 is higher now by over 200mhz and p95 happily solved 5 rounds of workers before I stopped it.


----------



## ntdouglas (Mar 9, 2022)

oobymach said:


> Decided to try pbo again with the 5600x after running into issues with the 1.2v manual, running +200mhz with -8 allcore and 125watt 75a 100a and the maintained boost during p95 is higher now by over 200mhz and p95 happily solved 5 rounds of workers before I stopped it.


Nice. Try running occt and see what your all core is.


----------



## oobymach (Mar 10, 2022)

Not familiar with occt, ran into an issue with the -8 allcore (system freeze but mouse still moved), tried -5 allcore but boost frequency was lower so now I'm testing with single core -5 -8 -5 -10 -10 -10, sustained boost is about the same with the -8 allcore, 4800-4850mhz on the first round of p95, 4675-4700mhz on the second round.

On auto all cores would drop to 4400-4500mhz on the second round.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 11, 2022)

seems like the curve just gives a more effect clock speed on all cores doesn't seem to do much for single thread for me.


----------



## oobymach (Mar 11, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> seems like the curve just gives a more effect clock speed on all cores doesn't seem to do much for single thread for me.


After looking into it more you're supposed to have your 2 best cores with the lowest undervolt, after checking ryzen master mine are cores 2 and 3 so I revised the +200 boost with -10 -5 -5 -10 -10 -10 and have been playing with it for a few hours, gaming, stressing, internet and watching vids and it's stable so far.

I had a bsod with the -5 -8 -5 -10 -10 -10 and a freeze with -5 -5 -5 -12 -12 -12 so still trying to find a reasonable stable curve.


----------



## Taraquin (Mar 11, 2022)

oobymach said:


> After looking into it more you're supposed to have your 2 best cores with the lowest undervolt, after checking ryzen master mine are cores 2 and 3 so I revised the +200 boost with -10 -5 -5 -10 -10 -10 and have been playing with it for a few hours, gaming, stressing, internet and watching vids and it's stable so far.
> 
> I had a bsod with the -5 -8 -5 -10 -10 -10 and a freeze with -5 -5 -5 -12 -12 -12 so still trying to find a reasonable stable curve.


when you get bsod run event viewer in windows, you should find which core that failed there. No need to change the whole curve. I bet some of your cores can do anove -20.


DemonicRyzen666 said:


> seems like the curve just gives a more effect clock speed on all cores doesn't seem to do much for single thread for me.


Yeah, it does not affect single cores. 

Curve optimizer only does the following:
At a given speed your CPU runs at a given voltage, negative CO tells the CPU to use less voltage at that given speed. If you use the standard powerlimit a 5600X runs at 76W max. Running stock if temp is kept below 70-71C (temp increases consumption) you can expect around 4.3GHz in cinebench. If you can run -30 on allcores like I do I get 4.6-4.65GHz allcore, in both cases it uses 76W. If temp rises to 75C speed drops to 4.55-4.575GHz.

You can remove the powerlimit and get a allcore speed of the same as your single core speed if cooling is good enough, but if you then use negative CO your consumption will drop. If I use -30 CO I can set powerlimit to 65W and the CPU runs at 4.3GHz allcore like it did without CO at 76W


----------



## oobymach (Mar 11, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> when you get bsod run event viewer in windows, you should find which core that failed there. No need to change the whole curve. I bet some of your cores can do anove -20.


That would be great only I have no Idea what to look for or where to look, or how to understand what I click on when I do find something, most of it looks like binary gibberish and I have no idea how to read binary.


----------



## Taraquin (Mar 11, 2022)

oobymach said:


> That would be great only I have no Idea what to look for or where to look, or how to understand what I click on when I do find something, most of it looks like binary gibberish and I have no idea how to read binary.


You must find the windows logs - system. Find the time of the reboot and you can see what core crashed. Generally the report as WHEA18. If I were you I would start with a baseline like -10 on all. Find which ones crash, the ones that don`t try running -15 or higher. Corecycler can be useful for many


----------



## tabascosauz (Mar 11, 2022)

oobymach said:


> That would be great only I have no Idea what to look for or where to look, or how to understand what I click on when I do find something, most of it looks like binary gibberish and I have no idea how to read binary.



Event Viewer > Custom Views > Administrative Events > sort by Source column to find WHEA-Logger events

For core-related errors you're looking for either Unknown Source or Cache Hierarchy as the Error Type. The APIC ID will tell you what core is the problem - iirc it doesn't count SMT threads (don't quote me on that) and starts from 0 like most programs, so you'd be looking at a number between 0 and 5.

The one below is a Bus/Interconnect so a different IF-related type, and not core-specific so APIC ID 0


----------



## oobymach (Mar 11, 2022)

I have no event id 18 nor whea logger events in the requested folder, there are 39k events in the list, my whea list is error free.


----------



## Taraquin (Mar 11, 2022)

oobymach said:


> I have no event id 18 nor whea logger events in the requested folder, there are 39k events in the list, my whea list is error free.
> 
> View attachment 239423
> View attachment 239424


Try to find what kind of error you get when the bsod occured


----------



## freeagent (Mar 11, 2022)

Ppt is important for getting single core up, as well as for sustained all core loads. In my limited experience curve is based off of your ppt tdc and edc settings. If those aren’t right then curve won’t work well.


----------



## outpt (Mar 11, 2022)

oobymach said:


> I have no event id 18 nor whea logger events in the requested folder, there are 39k events in the list, my whea list is error free.
> 
> View attachment 239423
> View attachment 239424


Look under txt in cpu-z it will tell you what core crashed.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 11, 2022)

freeagent said:


> In my limited experience curve is based off of your ppt tdc and edc settings. If those aren’t right then curve won’t work well.




My curve isn't perfect, but its fairly tight overall I think.



Edit:

Playing with Core Cycler now..

Edit again:

Well, it’s just as I suspected. My CPU is shit. It won’t even do +50 with an all core -15 or 10.. which loads it at 4950 in core cycler. But for everything else my original settings were cock solid, except core cycler. I could bench, fold, crunch something.. game do whatever with no errors, bluescreams, hardware errors.. nothing 

The last time I played with CC I think it failed at stock settings. 

Should I RMA it?


----------



## Mussels (Mar 12, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> seems like the curve just gives a more effect clock speed on all cores doesn't seem to do much for single thread for me.


Yes, that's what it does.

It lowers the wattage/amperage at any given clock speed, and those limits are most easily reached multi threaded.


Free: personally, i don't believe in RMA'ing because it wont overclock.
-15 is a large undervolt, few chips are stable past -10 (remember they're unstable at IDLE, so many people make bullshit claims and say its stable when its not)


----------



## freeagent (Mar 12, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Yes, that's what it does.
> 
> It lowers the wattage/amperage at any given clock speed, and those limits are most easily reached multi threaded.
> 
> ...


Ok good, thank you 

I wont RMA it because it was working fine for the way I used it. I have flashed to the latest AGESA, went back to a clean install of 11. Boost and voltage are waaay down, but it still runs ok. I am not going to fuss over it.. I ran it completely stock and it felt just fine. 1600 1:1, factory limits and boost.. it was ok. Games were fine, it wasn't a massive loss of performance.. because I play at 60fps I didn't notice any loss lol.. Power has gotten a lot more expensive here, and will continue to do so..


----------



## oobymach (Mar 12, 2022)

Thanks for trying to help, now testing with -10 -5 -5 -10 -15 -10 after crashing more aggressive undervolts on the curve all over, I'm learning this new shit as I assume many of you already did by trial and error, figuring out what I can do and what I can't by testing both low and heavy loads and figuring out what works and what doesn't.

Passed 12 rounds of p95 because I forgot it was on.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 12, 2022)

oobymach said:


> Thanks for trying to help, now testing with -10 -5 -5 -10 -15 -10 after crashing more aggressive undervolts on the curve all over, I'm learning this new shit as I assume many of you already did by trial and error, figuring out what I can do and what I can't by testing both low and heavy loads and figuring out what works and what doesn't.
> 
> Passed 12 rounds of p95 because I forgot it was on.


like mine error on core 3 with in 3 minutes in prime95
Later on, error on core 6 with 18 minutes in prime95. 
These chips are so weird.


----------



## Athlonite (Mar 12, 2022)

freeagent said:


> My curve isn't perfect, but its fairly tight overall I think.
> 
> View attachment 239462
> 
> ...


No just stop using Core Cycler as obviously that's the issue


----------



## freeagent (Mar 12, 2022)

Athlonite said:


> No just stop using Core Cycler as obviously that's the issue


I did, but again like the last time it kind of bugs me.

I also went back to the old voltage pumping bios.. still on 11 though.. so pretty.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 12, 2022)

I'm thinking the lowered voltage/amperate is related to the intended changes for the 5800x3D


----------



## ntdouglas (Mar 13, 2022)

+200 
-15 crashes any higher
-19 fastest core
-23
-19 fastest core
-23
-23
power limits
130 
80
130
these power settings seem high compared to others but running occt the ppt and the 3rd one (edc?) are close to maxing out. Single core boost isnt quite what it was before this journey but temps are down 10-12 degrees. Multi core is pegged at 4.74 at 72c though. One run of occt I know I seen cores 2 and 4 flash 4.95 for a second or two. I want to get to 5ghz single core. Any ideas


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 13, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> +200
> -15 crashes any higher
> -19 fastest core
> -23
> ...


The only way to get higher on a 5600x is to use a slight bump in bus speed. Which means you have to lower you ram divider before you even try a higher bus speed to counter act it.  It won't take much to get a decent bump anyways even something like 100.03 is still a bump for Ryzen. I know I got pretty high on my bus speed, but I'm not using an NVMe SDD. I'm using a Sata SSD. I'm not sure what the usually is for high bus speed, but you don't need to get anywhere near 101.0 on bus speed. Tiny bus speed increments in Ryzen can throw up a lot of speed increase.


----------



## ntdouglas (Mar 13, 2022)

Would raising it slightly effect nvme drives?



DemonicRyzen666 said:


> The only way to get higher on a 5600x is to use a slight bump in bus speed. Which means you have to lower you ram divider before you even try a higher bus speed to counter act it.  It won't take much to get a decent bump anyways even something like 100.03 is still a bump for Ryzen. I know I got pretty high on my bus speed, but I'm not using an NVMe SDD. I'm using a Sata SSD. I'm not sure what the usually is for high bus speed, but you don't need to get anywhere near 101.0 on bus speed. Tiny bus speed increments in Ryzen can throw up a lot of speed increase.


Even with pbo limits disabled?


----------



## freeagent (Mar 14, 2022)

I dropped my 5600X in and ran CC with no problems, I guess my 5900X just does not like that program..

Core 3 was cranky with 4850, so I chose +150 instead..


----------



## oobymach (Mar 14, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I dropped my 5600X in and ran CC with no problems, I guess my 5900X just does not like that program..
> 
> Core 3 was cranky with 4850, so I chose +150 instead..
> 
> View attachment 239706


I tested with CC and had a core 2 fail with +200 even when undervolt was 0 for that core (-5 0 -5 -10 -15 -10 curve) so I'm just going to ignore it since 12 rounds of regular p95 passed. CC is large fft, my cpu ran at 71 degrees during the test.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 14, 2022)

oobymach said:


> I tested with CC and had a core 2 fail with +200 even when undervolt was 0 for that core (-5 0 -5 -10 -15 -10 curve) so I'm just going to ignore it since 12 rounds of regular p95 passed. CC is large fft, my cpu ran at 71 degrees during the test.


I played with it for a couple of hours, it was pretty depressing. For absolutely everything else it never once gave me a problem with my settings. But.. I am enjoying my 5600X for now. My system is so quiet. Even when it gets a bit busy they barely lift from idle. Unlike 5900X which breathes fire lol.


----------



## oobymach (Mar 14, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I played with it for a couple of hours, it was pretty depressing. For absolutely everything else it never once gave me a problem with my settings. But.. I am enjoying my 5600X for now. My system is so quiet. Even when it gets a bit busy they barely lift from idle. Unlike 5900X which breathes fire lol.


I'm testing an extra -2 per core (-12 -7 -7 -12 -17 -12 curve) @ +150 and core 2 crashes again in CC. Dif in single core is 8-10 points in cpuz so not a huge drop vs +200 but CC still doesn't like it, I'm just going to go back to +200 and pretend CC isn't a thing.


----------



## Taraquin (Mar 15, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I played with it for a couple of hours, it was pretty depressing. For absolutely everything else it never once gave me a problem with my settings. But.. I am enjoying my 5600X for now. My system is so quiet. Even when it gets a bit busy they barely lift from idle. Unlike 5900X which breathes fire lol.


Seems only 5600X is the quiet one of the 5XX0X-brotherhood for now. I have a bit of hope for 5700X and 5600, they should be good.

Or 5950X is possibly the best of cooler is good, lower allcore clocks might be the reason:


----------



## mattferris (Mar 15, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I haven't gotten above 82C on prime95 with just Small FFT with *AVX on*, cinebenchr23 is 10C lower it's also like 300mhz higher lol
> My current issues seems to be my VRM loop 1 is hotter then VRM loop 2 whey they should mirror each other. I wonder if it just has bad contact.
> Just now change my EDC from 125 to 85 = better Cinebenchr23 score both single and Multi. guess I'll try to lower the wattage and see what it gets.


Prime95 is a weird load compared to Cinebench or other more traditional workloads. The heavy AVX Prime95 computations will slam you into your TDC limit before PPT or EDC (unless you have PPT and EDC lowered sufficiently). This can lead to weird outcomes like you saw above.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 17, 2022)

mattferris said:


> Prime95 is a weird load compared to Cinebench or other more traditional workloads. The heavy AVX Prime95 computations will slam you into your TDC limit before PPT or EDC (unless you have PPT and EDC lowered sufficiently). This can lead to weird outcomes like you saw above.


I've been doing a little tinkering I let the motherboard set all the setting by just hitting the + button in the bios from auto

this is what it set

PPT 500W
TDC 143a
EDC193a

Then I ran Prime95/cinbenchr23 it only used this % of those settings on HWinfo.
500w 25%
143a 56.5%
193a 59.9%

which then looks like this
ppt 125w
TDC 78a
EDC 115a

I did notice that even if I switch the TDC with EDC
PPT 125w
TDC115
EDC 78

PPT won't make it up past 87.5 watts then. Think I'm going to test some static overclocks now


----------



## freeagent (Mar 17, 2022)

Using 200/140/180 with my 5600X capped at +150 can put out over 140w PPT using Linpack Xtreme. The most I saw was just over 150w PPT on 5600X. Static OC should be easy on that CPU.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 18, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Using 200/140/180 with my 5600X capped at +150 can put out over 140w PPT using Linpack Xtreme. The most I saw was just over 150w PPT on 5600X. Static OC should be easy on that CPU.


 Well, I tried 1.375 at 4,750mhz it only pulled 117watts on PPT. 
Temps only went up 4C 
With PBO2 On I can't get to let it go past 107w on PPT
Maybe my chip just needs to go under LN2 lol


----------



## freeagent (Mar 18, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> Well, I tried 1.375 at 4,750mhz it only pulled 117watts on PPT.
> Temps only went up 4C
> With PBO2 On I can't get to let it go past 107w on PPT
> Maybe my chip just needs to go under LN2 lol


Maybe mine is just a pig


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 18, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Maybe mine is just a pig
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 240236


I found my issue had turn on something wasn't hitting near PPT limit. Now I'm right at it now. bumped right into 135 watts a 74C.

Apparently, I had to turn on this custom setting in the bios "CPU_VDD_SOC current optimization" this wasn't in earlier bios settings.








^ This is with it at auto












all PBO settings are the same on both of those.


----------



## ntdouglas (Mar 18, 2022)

Has anyone tried flashing back to the previous bios that boosted better? Or should I not try.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 18, 2022)

ntdouglas said:


> Has anyone tried flashing back to the previous bios that boosted better? Or should I not try.


I did.


DemonicRyzen666 said:


> all PBO settings are the same on both of those.


You hit 150w PPT with PBO?

Nice.. I hit 150w at 4700 static, 

Most impressive..


----------



## ntdouglas (Mar 18, 2022)

Did you go back to 4005?


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 19, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I did.
> 
> You hit 150w PPT with PBO?
> 
> ...


I can probably hit higher, but I have no idea what these settings do as these came up in a bios update and there isn't anything in the Manual about or on PDF's about it.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 19, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I can probably hit higher


Dude.. I would be impressed if you could.


----------



## oobymach (Mar 19, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I did.
> 
> You hit 150w PPT with PBO?
> 
> ...


Yeesh 150w on a 5600x? I found if I set anything higher than 130w 75a 100a my cpu stops hitting 4.85ghz under stress, 200w 140a 180a p95 hovers on +-4.8ghz for the first test, changing the values back to what I have it stays 4.85ghz all cores p95 first test, second test my settings maxes out around 124w. Only those 3 values were changed.

Now testing with override + offset voltage and it's maintaining boost with about 1.256v vs 1.375v auto, thinking this is the way to go for long term pbo use, passed first round of p95 @ 4.85ghz all cores and 50-51 degrees, second round wattage is lower- 105-107w vs 125w on auto, 66-67 degrees and passed all workers without issue.

Single and multi core scores are down in cpu-z now, on to more testing.


----------



## freeagent (Mar 19, 2022)

oobymach said:


> Yeesh 150w on a 5600x?


Yeah it’s pretty intense.. it was a static all core clock of 4700 running Linpack.. pretty brutal. Probably close to the limit of what an air cooler can deal with on such a little slug.


----------



## Taraquin (Mar 19, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Using 200/140/180 with my 5600X capped at +150 can put out over 140w PPT using Linpack Xtreme. The most I saw was just over 150w PPT on 5600X. Static OC should be easy on that CPU.


Scaling above 4.6GHz is terrible to 5600X. At -30 CO and only +50 pbo at 76W it runs at 4.575-4.625 depending on temp. Removing pwr limit it runs at 4.7 AC using 84W. Running allcore 4.8GHz@1.32v it uses 115W+.


----------



## OneMoar (Mar 19, 2022)

static overclocks are great way to fry cpus


----------



## freeagent (Mar 19, 2022)

OneMoar said:


> static overclocks are great way to fry cpus


So far they just freak out and reboot when amps and temps get out of hand. I haven't run a static oc long enough on these Ryzen's to cause any noticeable damage.



Taraquin said:


> Scaling above 4.6GHz is terrible to 5600X. At -30 CO and only +50 pbo at 76W it runs at 4.575-4.625 depending on temp. Removing pwr limit it runs at 4.7 AC using 84W. Running allcore 4.8GHz@1.32v it uses 115W+.



You have a beautiful chip good sir


----------



## Taraquin (Mar 19, 2022)

freeagent said:


> So far they just freak out and reboot when amps and temps get out of hand. I haven't run a static oc long enough on these Ryzen's to cause any noticeable damage.
> 
> 
> 
> You have a beautiful chip good sir


Yes, I'm lucky, ram bin is mediocre though  Coming from a terrible binned 3600 (4.1GHz@1.25v, stock allcore 3.925GHz@88W vs 4.7GHz@1.27v and 4.3/4.6GHz allcore stock/-30CO@76W on 5600X) I felt I deserved it


----------



## oobymach (Mar 19, 2022)

OneMoar said:


> static overclocks are great way to fry cpus


Maybe if you feed your cpu a high voltage, I ran my 3600x @ 4.2ghz 1.25v for years, no degradation, I'm running my 5600x @ 4.65ghz 1.25v no issues, p95 stable.

The 7nm process was designed for 1.3v, you will not harm a ryzen feeding it 1.3v manual.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 19, 2022)

Oh, I have load line calibration set to mode 8 on cpu and SOC/NB in the motherboard and the voltage set to "AMD overclocking" on both of those with curve on (-30/-30/-10/-30/-30/-30). My all-core load voltage is/was only at like 1.244 for 4.4ghz in prime95 last time I looked. I might have also had a negative offset on a one point too. The crazy part about this is the temperatures haven't really changed at all.
Cinebemchr23 still around 72C
Prime95 small FFT still around 81C

Changing the wattage does change some things but I keep bumping to one thing or another either EDC or TDC
remember I said my chip was rated golden by CTR. this chip will do 4,750mhz but it will be 1.375 volts I can't even get 4,600mhz without 1.325 volts on a static overclock  how is this golden?


----------



## Broken Processor (Mar 23, 2022)

I've not overclocked since my 3600x and want to take my 5600x for a spin is PBO the preferred way to go now Instead of ryzen tuner?


----------



## Taraquin (Mar 23, 2022)

Broken Processor said:


> I've not overclocked since my 3600x and want to take my 5600x for a spin is PBO the preferred way to go now Instead of ryzen tuner?


PBO+CO. If you have a good cooler I would try to max out PBO, if you have a okay cooler or budget cooler prioritize negative CO. PBO+CO is superior to allcore OC on my 5600X.

Best I can get with allcore OC is 4.7 and that uses 85-90W (1.26V) in CB23 getting me 12050 points, with PBO I can get 4.85 single and 4.7 allcore, in CB23 I still get 12050 but consumption is 76W (1.2-1.22V during load )


----------



## oobymach (Mar 23, 2022)

EDC has negative gains over 100a so set 130w 70a 100a limits for 5600x if you have a good cooler (TDC 60a and EDC 90a are the default values).

After not getting anywhere with the offset voltage (it will happily run on a lower voltage but performance is lower) I started playing with CPU LLC and modes 1-4 don't offer any performance increase modes 5-8 offer a load voltage reduction with 5 and 6 offering near identical to auto performance 7-8 offer further reduced voltages with only multi core losing a few points, single core still high through all tests. Mode 8 caused a BSOD with my new curve.

Mode 6 looks like it runs the cpu around 1.34-1.35v as opposed to auto which hovers around 1.375v with PBO.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 23, 2022)

oobymach said:


> EDC has negative gains over 100a so set 130w 70a 100a limits for 5600x if you have a good cooler (TDC 60a and EDC 90a are the default values).
> 
> After not getting anywhere with the offset voltage (it will happily run on a lower voltage but performance is lower) I started playing with CPU LLC and modes 1-4 don't offer any performance increase modes 5-8 offer a load voltage reduction with 5 and 6 offering near identical to auto performance 7-8 offer further reduced voltages with only multi core losing a few points, single core still high through all tests. Mode 8 caused a BSOD with my new curve.
> 
> Mode 6 looks like it runs the cpu around 1.34-1.35v as opposed to auto which hovers around 1.375v with PBO.


I can't break 9,500 in cinebenchr25 with those settings. 130w 70a 100a


----------



## oobymach (Mar 23, 2022)

11,901cb r23 multi core with 5600x @ +200mhz offset PBO -11 -6 -6 -10 -16 -11 curve and 130w 70a 100a limits.

If I go above 100a EDC my cpu stops holding 4.85ghz in p95 blend first round and doesn't gain any extra speed when the load increases but EDC will happily go as high as 132a when uninhibited but I've noticed the cpu doesn't gain any performance as a result.

I get more of a performance boost from a tiny increase on the fsb.

What bios version are you running? 1.2.0.3c is the best for 5000 series cpu. Also the less voltage you give the cpu the slower it runs, when I run mine @ 1.25v with PBO I lose over 600pts in the cpuz multi core bench.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 30, 2022)

Broken Processor said:


> I've not overclocked since my 3600x and want to take my 5600x for a spin is PBO the preferred way to go now Instead of ryzen tuner?


PBO + CO, or a static all core clock at an efficient setting (ex: mine at 4.6GHz all core needs 1.21V)



My brother got me to install his 5900x yesterday, it's annoying how much colder it runs than my 5800x, despite the higher wattages


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Mar 30, 2022)

Mussels said:


> PBO + CO, or a static all core clock at an efficient setting (ex: mine at 4.6GHz all core needs 1.21V)
> 
> 
> 
> My brother got me to install his 5900x yesterday, it's annoying how much colder it runs than my 5800x, despite the higher wattages


debating to get a regular old 5800x or wait for the 5800x 3D to see how limited it's PBO really scales.
Microcenter about 20 miles away got the 5800x for $319.99 Amazon also has it for $339.99
Or start getting a custom water setup for a new build ready.


----------



## Taraquin (Mar 30, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> debating to get a regular old 5800x or wait for the 5800x 3D to see how limited it's PBO really scales.
> Microcenter about 20 miles away got the 5800x for $319.99 Amazon also has it for $339.99
> Or start getting a custom water setup for a new build ready.


Get 5700X or 5800X3D, not 5800X


----------



## pf100 (Apr 5, 2022)

I'm not sure if I should post this here or if a new thread should be started, but yesterday I watched a video (that I link to here) showing that if you set CPU Boost Clock Override to -200 in the bios, so that it runs at 4650 mhz, it lowers the temperature by a lot, so I tried it using Cyberpunk 2077 as a load. With a Noctua NH-D15s cooler and PBO power limits set to stock disabled settings (142, 95, 140) and with Curve Optimizer enabled and CPU Boost Clock Override set to +200, my 5800x ran at 78c. Next I tried only changing CPU Boost Clock Override to -200 and my 5800x's temperature was 68c, so 10 degrees cooler (at CPU Boost Clock Override set to 0 it was 74c). The performance wasn't noticeably different, just a few fps slower, so I thought I would mention this. The video's thumbnail shows -20c, but for me it was -10c, but other than that I though it was useful information. I do realize that lowering PBO limits will allow single core loads to boost much higher than setting boost clock override to -200.
As for me, nowadays I'm running my 5800x with PBO power settings at 142, 95, and 140 with no boost clock override, even though it's stable at +200, and tuned curve optimizer.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 6, 2022)

pf100 said:


> I'm not sure if I should post this here or if a new thread should be started, but yesterday I watched a video (that I link to here) showing that if you set CPU Boost Clock Override to -200 in the bios, so that it runs at 4650 mhz, it lowers the temperature by a lot, so I tried it using Cyberpunk 2077 as a load. With a Noctua NH-D15s cooler and PBO power limits set to stock disabled settings (142, 95, 140) and with Curve Optimizer enabled and CPU Boost Clock Override set to +200, my 5800x ran at 78c. Next I tried only changing CPU Boost Clock Override to -200 and my 5800x's temperature was 68c, so 10 degrees cooler (at CPU Boost Clock Override set to 0 it was 74c). The performance wasn't noticeably different, just a few fps slower, so I thought I would mention this. The video's thumbnail shows -20c, but for me it was -10c, but other than that I though it was useful information. I do realize that lowering PBO limits will allow single core loads to boost much higher than setting boost clock override to -200.
> As for me, nowadays I'm running my 5800x with PBO power settings at 142, 95, and 140 with no boost clock override, even though it's stable at +200, and tuned curve optimizer.


 Yep, its a great little feature. I played around with it here too, but my chips low voltage at 4.6 all core just sealed the deal on that one... until i run into something that actually needs more single threaded grunt


----------



## Tomgang (Apr 29, 2022)

i have palying around with my 5950X and think i have gotten some desent settings now. All cores are capable of reasing 5 GHz (that means the worst cores as well) and the best cores can go to 5.25 GHz.






Prime 95 temp arent so bad either. My CPU is only aircooled. Peaked at 77 C, thats when it boost to the 5.25 GHz and all core load hovering around the 4.6 GHz holds a steady 72-73 C. I think thats desent for air cooling.


----------



## MaddoggMiranda (Jul 6, 2022)

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/n8n0ho/_/gxm6c95

I found this Super Helpful along with some recommendations on this thread. The PBO Curve was pretty easy, Voltages is what i suffered with 3 days took me to figure out voltages, Till i remembered 1usmus Ryzen D RAM Calculator. I set my ram as Bad Bin (worst case scenario) and then copied recommended voltages into my bios and thankfully it worked. no more whea BSOD's SOC IOD CCD VPPD voltages was my problem.


----------



## Taraquin (Jul 6, 2022)

MaddoggMiranda said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/n8n0ho/_/gxm6c95
> 
> I found this Super Helpful along with some recommendations on this thread. The PBO Curve was pretty easy, Voltages is what i suffered with 3 days took me to figure out voltages, Till i remembered 1usmus Ryzen D RAM Calculator. I set my ram as Bad Bin (worst case scenario) and then copied recommended voltages into my bios and thankfully it worked. no more whea BSOD's SOC IOD CCD VPPD voltages was my problem.


Auto voltages on a lot of mobos are terrible, 1.2v soc or 1.05v sov and vddp can be both 0.9 and 1.1v, usually setting them lower or higher fixes most of the issues.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 21, 2022)

installed a 5700x into a friends PC yesterday and the insanely low temps have me jealous
25c idle, 55C R23 load on a be quiet AIO


I wonder if they fixed the IHS contact, or if copying the PBO settings from a 5700x would cool down a 5800x


----------



## Taraquin (Aug 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> installed a 5700x into a friends PC yesterday and the insanely low temps have me jealous
> 25c idle, 55C R23 load on a be quiet AIO
> 
> 
> I wonder if they fixed the IHS contact, or if copying the PBO settings from a 5700x would cool down a 5800x


The latter. Mainly PPT, also voltage curve vs frequency etc. Just setting a 76W limit on 5800X will make them very similar multicore. Look at the TPU test, even the 5600 is over 5C cooler than 5600X, only difference being 200MHz.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 21, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> The latter. Mainly PPT, also voltage curve vs frequency etc. Just setting a 76W limit on 5800X will make them very similar multicore. Look at the TPU test, even the 5600 is over 5C cooler than 5600X, only difference being 200MHz.


Lower single core is what I dream of.
It's weird seeing 60C MT, and 75C ST, even with PBO off.

I know it's just spikes for milliseconds and whatever, but it annoys my OCD.


----------



## Taraquin (Aug 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Lower single core is what I dream of.
> It's weird seeing 60C MT, and 75C ST, even with PBO off.
> 
> I know it's just spikes for milliseconds and whatever, but it annoys my OCD.


Negative pbo would have been awesome


----------



## LifeOnMars (Aug 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> installed a 5700x into a friends PC yesterday and the insanely low temps have me jealous
> 25c idle, 55C R23 load on a be quiet AIO
> 
> 
> I wonder if they fixed the IHS contact, or if copying the PBO settings from a 5700x would cool down a 5800x


Mine are lower on a Vetroo cheapo Air cooler. I told you when i got mine, these chips are insanely cool runners.


----------



## Zach_01 (Aug 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> installed a 5700x into a friends PC yesterday and the insanely low temps have me jealous
> 25c idle, 55C R23 load on a be quiet AIO
> 
> 
> I wonder if they fixed the IHS contact, or if copying the PBO settings from a 5700x would cool down a 5800x


As said its the difference in PPT.
76W vs 142W, almost doubled.
Or 5700X is a 88W? I'm not sure... (5600X is definately a 76W CPU)



Mussels said:


> single core is what I dream of.
> It's weird seeing 60C MT, and 75C ST, even with PBO off.
> 
> I know it's just spikes for milliseconds and whatever, but it annoys my OCD.


Of course you can set PPT what ever you like on the 5800X, lets say 80~90W, but this wont keep it completely from (temp) spiking on low-middle threaded situations as 5800X is hardcoded with higher ST clocks. You can set a negative PBO override (-25~50MHz) but that will hurt performance also.
Cant eat the cake and have it too...

You can always play around with values inside PBO, with limits, curve and override and find something that suits you.
My 5900X has exactly the same peak temp on ST and MT. (4.9GHz vs 4.5GHz) Around 75C and maybe on MT is a little lower as I keep PPT at 135W (142W stock) with some negative curve.


----------



## HD64G (Aug 21, 2022)

Me thinks that for whoever lives in hot climats or the summer there is hot and humid, Zen2&3 are very easy to be agjusted just by lowering the power limit up to where the cooling in that PC is enough to sustain good enough temps. Not much performance to lose after all. Max 10% me thinks (at least for gaming and most apps) from 140W going to as low as 90W. If videoediting or any multithreaded app is used for long, better cooling is the best solution.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 22, 2022)

I just get the impression the 5700x should have launched a lot, lot sooner.
Performance is so close to the 5800x, without the heat issues.


----------



## Taraquin (Aug 22, 2022)

Mussels said:


> I just get the impression the 5700x should have launched a lot, lot sooner.
> Performance is so close to the 5800x, without the heat issues.


Agreed. 5600 also, but AMD had superior products compared to Intel 10/11th gen so they made the most money they could.


----------



## Andrea87 (Aug 27, 2022)

I've got a 5800x, played around a bit with it. First went to full OC, then tried to get it into a more "reasonable" power setting. So far I've settled on a good setup, giving me still above 15K R23 scores and keeping the cpu at around 70-71°C.
PPT 110W
TDC 80A
EDC 100A
+200MHz PBO All Core
-0.1125V offset undervolt
PBO2 with five cores at -29, the remaining -22/-18/-8
All core boost in R23 4.65-4.7GHz
Ram at 3200MHz CL16

27°C Ambient, Thermalright PA120 maxes out at about 71°C with fans below 1200rpm.

I've managed to hit 16K in R23 with this cpu, but at almost 150W cpu draw and 81-82°C... 5% more is not worthy the +25% power draw.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 29, 2022)

Andrea87 said:


> I've got a 5800x, played around a bit with it. First went to full OC, then tried to get it into a more "reasonable" power setting. So far I've settled on a good setup, giving me still above 15K R23 scores and keeping the cpu at around 70-71°C.
> PPT 110W
> TDC 80A
> EDC 100A
> ...


The best efficiency seems to be in the 100-120W range (depending on undervolt luck)


----------



## The King (Sep 23, 2022)

@Mussels I need some help here please.

Leave it to me to buy a 5800X the week before ZEN 4 launches. 

So the issue I am having is that this CPU wont do PB0 +50 without bluescreening.  Both my 5600 and 5600X can do PB0 +200 and -CO on top of that.
Stock perofmance seems slighly lower than the TPU review. So far I am not that happy with this CPU but it could be because it behaves differently from my 5600 and 5600X.

Here are the core ratings in HYDRA. With PBO disabled. So is it normal for a 5800X to not be able to do PB0 +50? I have tried +25 it can boot into windows but  +50/+75 etc mostly unstable crashed before windows loads or after I log in. I am considering requesting a return and exchange on Amazon but before I do that I wanted to check with someone who has more experience with this CPU.


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 23, 2022)

don't use hydra I could never get that pos to produce a stable result
make sure you have the latest board bios this matters on AM4 recent bios's change the boost curve a bit 
that being said I had the same problem on my  first 5800x it would not run at any boost clock override


Andrea87​undervolting is going to lead to clock stretching, you need to check against benchmark scores to ensure that it's accually performing because it will report 4.8Ghz but reality its operating closer to 4.6 ect ect effectively (this is not the same as effective clock the only way to tell is to run benchmarks and compare scores)
a undervolt of -0.036 costs me 500-700pts in cinebench despite it reporting the same frequencies' throughout the run


----------



## freeagent (Sep 23, 2022)

Give it the beans in PBO.. 200/140/180 to start 

+200


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 23, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Give it the beans in PBO.. 200/140/180 to start
> 
> +200


he needs to spray the contact point of the cooler with PAM first tho
so when the cpu slags he can peel the melted ihs off and at least save the cooler


----------



## The King (Sep 23, 2022)

I have not used Hydra to OC this CPU. I only enabled PBO advanced in the BIOS and PB02 Tuner -25 all cores .

Heat does not seem to be a problem at the moment at stock it barely goes over 80 degress

My Phanteks PH-TC14PE seems to be doing a good job cooling the CPU no thermal throttling that I could see.


----------



## freeagent (Sep 23, 2022)

OneMoar said:


> he needs to spray the contact point of the cooler with PAM first tho
> so when the cpu slags he can peel the melted ihs off and at least save the cooler


What? Nooo..

I am running my 5600X with those settings right now, it won't take the full 200PPT. or the full TDC and EDC because it's so itty bitty. I set mine like that because I lost the paper I wrote my settings down on for it lol. I was using them on my 5900X when I had it on my Strix-F. I give my 5900X 235/160/190 PPT TDC EDC. Works great with my curve


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 23, 2022)

a 5800x wil and will go right to 95c and throttle into the ground at those settings

the thermal density is much higher on the 5800x being a single ccd

@The King those scores are fine whats the vcore doing 0.296 is awful low for idle
which may explain why pbo is crashing if its dropping back to idle and not ramping voltage fast enough
edit:thats a b450 board


----------



## The King (Sep 23, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Give it the beans in PBO.. 200/140/180 to start
> 
> +200


I tried this but with +100 and it seems ok now in windows at the moment. Will do some stability testing.


OneMoar said:


> a 5800x wil and will go right to 95c and throttle into the ground at those settings
> 
> the thermal density is much higher on the 5800x being a single ccd
> 
> ...



HWINFO also shows idle voltage down to 0.200V is that not normal for this CPU? Yes B450M Mortar MAX


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 23, 2022)

iv never seen one idle that low every one I have seen the idle voltage is 0.900 - 0.950
check *vcore* NOT VID minimum voltage if you see minimum *vcore* voltages below 0.800 the board/cpu is doing some weird shit
on most 5800x samples* vcore* needs to be >1.42v for boost clocks over 4.7-4.8


----------



## The King (Sep 23, 2022)

OneMoar said:


> iv never seen one idle that low every one I have seen the idle voltage is 0.900 - 0.950
> check *vcore* NOT VID minimum voltage if you see minimum *vcore* voltages below 0.800 the board/cpu is doing some weird shit
> on most 5800x samples* vcore* needs to be >1.42v for boost clocks over 4.7-4.8


This CPU is Rev B2 not sure if that makes a difference. Under Vcore the min is 1.032V and CPU Core Voltage min is 1.013V.
Will have to look at this again tomorrow. Enabling +200 overide did boost the best cores ratings in hydra from 150 to 158 but boost seems to be still capped at 4800/4850.


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 23, 2022)

The King said:


> This CPU is Rev B2 not sure if that makes a difference. Under Vcore the min is 1.032V and CPU Core Voltage min is 1.013V.
> Will have to look at this again tomorrow. Enabling +200 overide did boost the core ratings in hydra from 150 to 158 but boost seems to be still capped at 4800/4850.


5.2 is the max and its exceptionally rare to get a sample that will do that without lots of voltage
4.8 seems to be the bar on  the most recent bioss

if you can hold 4.6 thoughout  cinebench run without throttling into the ground you are in pretty good shape
that should net you a score of 1530-1580k
if you get to 16k you got a good sample and its likely not going to get the extremely high peak boost clocks


----------



## The King (Sep 23, 2022)

OneMoar said:


> 5.2 is the max and its exceptionally rare to get a sample that will do that without lots of voltage
> 4.8 seems to be the bar on  the most recent bioss
> 
> if you can hold 4.6 thoughout  cinebench run without throttling into the ground you are in pretty good shape
> ...


Ok that wasn't hard to get im sure this can do more. Thanks for the help and your time will play around with this tomorrow its midnight here.


----------



## freeagent (Sep 23, 2022)

OneMoar said:


> a 5800x wil and will go right to 95c and throttle into the ground at those settings


My 5600X is ok with it.. 130w with PBO lowest all core is 4625 during Linpack


----------



## Zach_01 (Sep 23, 2022)

OneMoar said:


> @The King those scores are fine whats the vcore doing 0.296 is awful low for idle
> which may explain why pbo is crashing if its dropping back to idle and not ramping voltage fast enough
> edit:thats a b450 board





The King said:


> I tried this but with +100 and it seems ok now in windows at the moment. Will do some stability testing.
> 
> 
> HWINFO also shows idle voltage down to 0.200V is that not normal for this CPU? Yes B450M Mortar MAX
> View attachment 262784


When we are talking voltage on a Ryzen3000/5000 at least, we only talking about SVI2 TFN sensor. Everything else is not what the CPU is getting.

CPU-Z only uses the board's sensor (inaccurate) to display voltage.
HWiNFO "Core VID(s)" also is not the CPU/core voltage. These are just a request from the cores.

The final and only voltage request is the "CPU Core VID (effective)" and the true (closer to reality) Core Voltage is the "CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN)". Both polled straight from CPU and most accurate when Snapshot CPU Polling is enabled.


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 23, 2022)

in my setup vcore =[ svii2 tfn I must have renamed the sensor lol
ops


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 23, 2022)

@The King are you still running -25 all core? You're really not guaranteed any amount of undervolt offset. There's not really much correlation between the undervolt offset you can run and the quality of the CPU, it's only relative to what AMD has set the V-F table at for each core.

I wouldn't use the CPPC metric either. On my 5900X the actual SP of each core (esp. after CO) is not the same as the CPPC ranking or ratings that AMD has given.

-25 may be stable at stock because the global limit is 4850, but if you open up override above +0 be prepared to dial back your undervolt if you worked on your CO at 4850 only. At 4850 you are only using a portion of your V-F curve so it can mask instabilities. Closer you get to +200 (5050MHz) V-F curve gets steeper.

Like I've said before, if you want to know your actual idle Vcore look at either Ryzen Master, hope you get lucky watching the Vcore box in CPU-Z, or buy a ROG Crosshair board. VID isn't Vcore, and SVI2 Vcore in HWInfo doesn't care for idle.


----------



## Zach_01 (Sep 23, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> @The King are you still running -25 all core? You're really not guaranteed any amount of undervolt offset. There's not really much correlation between the undervolt offset you can run and the quality of the CPU, it's only relative to what AMD has set the V-F table at for each core.
> 
> I wouldn't use the CPPC metric either. On my 5900X the actual SP of each core (esp. after CO) is not the same as the CPPC ranking or ratings that AMD has given.
> 
> ...


I dont understand perfectly what you mean about SVI2 Vcore not caring about idle.

HWiNFO by default has a 2000ms sampling rate. A lot of things happen in 2000ms (2sec) on a CPU. At least 100times (if not more) changing voltage/frequency. From my observations idle voltage can vary a lot from session to session depending on what is happening on background and/or on Systray. I tend to run a lot of things in systray. Even if the CPU is by average using 1core total, frequency and voltage stays high. 1.3~1.4V and 4.2~4.3GHz avg freq for most active cores (peak at 4.95~5GHz). If I close them (apps) almost all and wait enough avg voltage drops to 1.0V and avg (discrete) freq around 4GHz if not lower. Avg active cores are at 0.5 then. These voltage readings on SVI2.

You can set HWiNFO sampling at 1000ms which makes it a little more accurate for shorter times, but not lower like 500ms because this keep the CPU too awake not letting it fall into lower C-States.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 23, 2022)

Zach_01 said:


> I dont understand perfectly what you mean about SVI2 Vcore not caring about idle.
> 
> HWiNFO by default has a 2000ms sampling rate. A lot of things happen in 2000ms (2sec) on a CPU. At least 100times (if not more) changing voltage/frequency. From my observations idle voltage can vary a lot from session to session depending on what is happening on background and/or on Systray. I tend to run a lot of things in systray. Even if the CPU is by average using 1core total, frequency and voltage stays high. 1.3~1.4V and 4.2~4.3GHz avg freq for most active cores (peak at 4.95~5GHz). If I close them (apps) almost all and wait enough avg voltage drops to 1.0V and avg (discrete) freq around 4GHz if not lower. Avg active cores are at 0.5 then. These voltage readings on SVI2.
> 
> You can set HWiNFO sampling at 1000ms which makes it a little more accurate for shorter times, but not lower like 500ms because this keep the CPU too awake not letting it fall into lower C-States.



Sometimes it falls to 0.9V sometimes (maybe lower), but HWInfo is the only software that's way off and thinks that Ryzen regularly stays at 1.4V for 90% of its life. It's really not that hard to get Ryzen to fall to lower (higher) C-states, but it is if you only use HWInfo as a reference.

Deep idle (~0.2V) is harder to get to with any applications open, but it's easy enough to check simulnateously both Ryzen Master and board-based die sense Vcore circuit and see that the CPU is usually hanging out around the 0.9-1.1V mark at "normal" idle (die sense is obviously slower because reliant on HWinfo polling rate, but the two are generally close outside of spikes)...............unless you're about to claim that both of those are wrong and only HWInfo is right.

You can easily see what the CPU waking cores looks like (spikes) in both die sense and RM, they are still rare unless you're actively doing something and don't change the overall average for idle, although RM still catches more of the spikes due to faster polling.

Of course, put some load on it and SVI2 quickly gets in line.


----------



## Zach_01 (Sep 23, 2022)

If it was true the SVI2 wouldn't avg below 1.4V ever. But it does if nothing major is happening, or if any app opened does not cause spikes regularly.

Right now (100min session) I have SVI2 1.31V avg but look at task bar...





If I close half of them SVI2 avg is falling at 1.0V = cant think that 90% of time is 1.4V if avg is 1.0V

5900X is relatively new to me (2+ months) and I haven't see any core request 0.2V (VID) so far like my previous R5 3600. That CPU had much easier lower SVI2 avg. Seems like AGESA, windows or something else is treating the 5900X more aggressively.
Reading, calculation and reporting of CPU parameters (v, f, T) is a top secret in RM and none really knows how it does all that. Few that may know are on life NDA for the AMD proprietary method and probably easy for AMD to spot them if ever disclose anything.


----------



## The King (Sep 24, 2022)

I did this run in R23 this morning ECO mode 95W custom -CO.



Spoiler: R23









Using Hydra got 16031 but its definitely not optimal a 4650 all core run should be doable.



Spoiler: R23 Hydra OC


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 24, 2022)

All core is extremely dangerous if you don't know what you are doing and your edc/tdc is set high you can insta-cook a core


----------



## The King (Sep 24, 2022)

OneMoar said:


> All core is extremely dangerous if you don't know what you are doing and your edc/tdc is set high you can insta-cook a core


The 16031 R23 run was done with 4625 all core temps we around 92 degrees still some headroom left.
I am reaching the limits of my Dual tower Air cooler may make  a switch to AIO.


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 24, 2022)

The King said:


> The 16031 R23 run was done with 4625 all core temps we around 92 degrees still some headroom left.
> I am reaching the limits of my Dual tower Air cooler may make  a switch to AIO.


the problem with manual/all core is pbo isn't there to keep you from spiking 200A though the core and cooking it 
a AIO may or may not help the 5800x is a single CCD, at a certain point you just can't get the heat out of the core fast enough the die is physically to small to transmit enough heat to the IHS

above 12 or 15w per core its just not worth pushing it harder there is no gain except excessive temps and power consumption


----------



## freeagent (Sep 24, 2022)

OneMoar said:


> the problem with manual/all core is pbo isn't there to keep you from spiking 200A though the core and cooking it
> a AIO may or may not help the 5800x is a single CCD,


That will not happen with 1.35v or under.

 I can’t do 200a, but 190a is pretty routine on my 5900X, and not a big deal.


----------



## Zach_01 (Sep 24, 2022)

freeagent said:


> That will not happen with 1.35v or under.
> 
> I can’t do 200a, but 190a is pretty routine on my 5900X, and not a big deal.


Only time will/can tell.

Me, you or anybody else can’t determine right now if EDC 180+A is ok in the long term, or if 1.35V is safe.
You can’t just isolate voltage or current or frequency or temperature as operating parameters and say they are ok. 
Under what conditions these are safe? How many of them are in excess limits/conditions together? what kind of load? How frequently? For how long?

EMI and silicon degradation has no warning signs unless it’s too late. Keep that in mind before you (all in general) set up those limits too high and push the silicon through benchmarks and stress tests for the bragging rights.
If you need more MT power for real then there are other ways to get it.

Just a friendly reminder.


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2022)

Just wondering, but why do all of you bother overclocking CPU's? I imagine most of you are gamers, and 100-300 mhz extra doesn't change anything fps wise for games. So why waste time navigating it all?

I used to find overclocking fun, but that was on the i5-2500k when I could see actual gains in real world usage.


----------



## Athlonite (Sep 24, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> Just wondering, but why do all of you bother overclocking CPU's?


Because we're all ePeen whores and we like to brag


----------



## LifeOnMars (Sep 24, 2022)

CallandorWoT said:


> Just wondering, but why do all of you bother overclocking CPU's? I imagine most of you are gamers, and 100-300 mhz extra doesn't change anything fps wise for games. So why waste time navigating it all?
> 
> I used to find overclocking fun, but that was on the i5-2500k when I could see actual gains in real world usage.



Indeed, I game at 4k with eco mode on my 5700x 

Unofficial answer - We're all after that unattainable perfect level of smooth experience in every game ever created, it feels like that extra 25mhz will give us this. Humans are never happy and strive for more, it's in our DNA.


----------



## freeagent (Sep 24, 2022)

Zach_01 said:


> Me, you or anybody else can’t determine right now if EDC 180+A is ok in the long term, or if 1.35V is safe.


If you have a completely stock CPU, and an Asus board and you enable Asus Performance Enhancement, it will boost your stock EDC to 180, no PBO required., as well as raise your clocks, though not past global limits. So 180 has to be ok for the CPUs that can use it.


Zach_01 said:


> or if 1.35V is safe.


I wouldn't run 1.,35 manually 24/7.


Zach_01 said:


> Under what conditions these are safe? How many of them are in excess limits/conditions together? what kind of load? How frequently? For how long?


If you use PBO, its all safe. Because PBO wont let you hurt your CPU.


Zach_01 said:


> EMI and silicon degradation has no warning signs unless it’s too late. Keep that in mind before you (all in general) set up those limits too high and push the silicon through benchmarks and stress tests for the bragging rights.


Pay attention to how the CPU is operating. If it can use the power, let it have it, if the extra power is a hinderance, and the CPU struggles don't use it.


Zach_01 said:


> If you need more MT power for real then there are other ways to get it.



Not by running lower limits..

All I have are my 2 CPU's. My CPU's have not degraded.


----------



## Zach_01 (Sep 24, 2022)

freeagent said:


> If you have a completely stock CPU, and an Asus board and you enable Asus Performance Enhancement, it will boost your stock EDC to 180, no PBO required., as well as raise your clocks, though not past global limits. So 180 has to be ok for the CPUs that can use it.
> 
> I wouldn't run 1.,35 manually 24/7.
> 
> ...


Don't fall into that trap of board vendors. Board limits can work a CPU to what I call a stupid high level so vendors can brag and sell their boards as the best. They are competing in stupidity right there.
PBO the way is implemented by boards (on any auto level) can be potentially unsafe. Especially when users take it for granted. Dont ever trust board vendors that trying to pass their marketing for something you/we need or something that can be done easily. They even set their boards to report wrong telemetry to the CPU to push them further to absolute silicon limit if not more. Who really knows.

I didn't say your CPU(s) are degraded or that they surely be one day. I'm just saying (or trying) that when you play with fire you can get burned. If you or anyone like to risk their hardware for 5~10% more performance its ok. What I wouldn't like to see is that this kind of configuration is the normal, fine, routine and without any risks. Just because ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, AsRock or any other want to market their products.
Its un-purposely misleading to the unaware user.

You can get more performance by getting a faster CPU too.


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 24, 2022)

No amperage is Amperage and the only thing that lets you run more amperage is colder temps VASTLY colder temps

I would not run more then 160A through a 5800x unless you could keep it below 75c (which is impossible on anything but subambient or direct die loop) not sustained its different with pbo because you are not sustaining that draw for long

its physics the die can handle X amount of current at a given temperature
thats it thats the only limiting factor

stability doesn't matter
the cpus happiness doesn't matter
what you had for lunch last tuesday doesn't matter

the whole point of this thread is to limit the power consumption because the 5800x being a single die approaches a thermal run-away scenario  beyond 140PPT/150EDC this because you are drawing so much power that you can't get the heat out of the die


----------



## freeagent (Sep 24, 2022)

140PPT is a bit hard on my 5600X, don't think it likes it that high too much. At least not with the cooler it has on right now.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 29, 2022)

way too many watts stock......thank god for PBO2 tuner, seems like this chip runs -30 with no complaints

Close to 100W core power stock is insanity. My 5900X runs 100W cores power across 2 CCDs...


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Sep 29, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> way too many watts stock......thank god for PBO2 tuner, seems like this chip runs -30 with no complaints
> 
> Close to 100W core power stock is insanity. My 5900X runs 100W cores power across 2 CCDs...
> 
> View attachment 263538 View attachment 263537



I'm not sure what AMD were thinking with the default voltage curve on these.  I was also hitting 90c out of the box on stock.  MSI has a 'Kombo Strike' option in their latest BIOS that provides three all core CO options.  I now get 80c under full load using level 3.  Supposedly that's a -30.


----------



## The King (Sep 29, 2022)

Something to try before using CO is to try negative offset on the CPU in the BIOS then test if R23 score are going higher or lower.
With my 5800X its offset - 0.0500V this gets the highest score any lower or higher performance drops.

Then use CO on top of that and you should have better performance and efficiency.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 29, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> I'm not sure what AMD were thinking with the default voltage curve on these.  I was also hitting 90c out of the box on stock.  MSI has a 'Kombo Strike' option in their latest BIOS that provides three all core CO options.  I now get 80c under full load using level 3.  Supposedly that's a -30.



I learned about the Kombo Strike thing earlier today and kinda wish Asus had it too. Though, the convenience of tweaking CO and limits on-the-go in Windows is just too good to pass up.



The King said:


> Something to try before using CO is to try negative offset on the CPU in the BIOS then test if R23 score are going higher or lower.
> Once you get the highest score with my 5800X its offset 0.0500V this gets the highest score any lower or higher performance drops.
> 
> Then use CO on top of that and you should have better performance.



I will definitely try that. Just still trying to figure out how this CPU behaves - it seems to behave differently in a lot of ways than any other Zen2 or Zen3 CPU I've come across. Some people on reddit and OCN were speculating that the cache is calling the shots on how boost behaves. Makes some sense. ST boost is very lazy compared to other Zen3. Whereas 5900X might spike close to Fmax just opening an application (lightning fast), 5800X3D just kinda sits around and so the difference is definitely felt.

I have not succeeded in hitting 1900Mhz Fabric yet. Tried a lot of things, just won't train. Funny because at 1800 the VSOC and VDDG characteristics are pretty much identical to my 5900X but it just refuses to train 3800.


----------



## The King (Sep 29, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I learned about the Kombo Strike thing earlier today and kinda wish Asus had it too. Though, the convenience of tweaking CO and limits on-the-go in Windows is just too good to pass up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am also having an issue getting 1900 FCLK boot consistently with 4 dimms. With 2 DR DIMMS no problems even 2 SR DIMMS it boots fine. You may need to adjust ProcODT


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 29, 2022)

The King said:


> I am also having an issue getting 1900 FCLK boot consistently with 4 dimms. With 2 DR DIMMS no problems even 2 SR DIMMS it boots fine. You may need to adjust ProcODT
> View attachment 263542



Yeah, no bueno I think. Tried most of the procODT options. I'm out of tricks at the moment - I am up to 3733 though. No problem at all, no WHEAs, VSOC is still low and a logical increase, just don't know why it refuses to train 3800.





The static Vcore offset needs a bit more testing - I was already kinda losing perf at -0.025. Temps were pretty good, with no need for setting limits really.


----------



## QuietBob (Sep 29, 2022)

Ran it today in a 22c room, with CO -30 on all cores:





With 25c ambient maximum Tctl/Tdie was 83c stock and 75c with CO during 30min stability test.


----------



## The King (Sep 30, 2022)

So apparently PB02 tuner thinks my 5800X has 16 cores.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 30, 2022)

The King said:


> @Mussels I need some help here please.
> 
> Leave it to me to buy a 5800X the week before ZEN 4 launches.
> 
> ...


Don't forget that +anything is overclocking and may not mix with any undervolting at all, curve or static

Hydra never worked great for me either, it's optimised for certain boards and glitchy on the rest



CallandorWoT said:


> Just wondering, but why do all of you bother overclocking CPU's? I imagine most of you are gamers, and 100-300 mhz extra doesn't change anything fps wise for games. So why waste time navigating it all?
> I used to find overclocking fun, but that was on the i5-2500k when I could see actual gains in real world usage.


Because we get more for our money?

Theres something to be said for finetuning what you own, it's the same reason i grease the chain on my garage roller door - it's perfectly usable while squeaking but why not spend time and make it better at what it does?

You're right that overclocking isn't what it once was, these days it's more about getting the most performance within your wattage limit rather than sheer clockspeed.
I've got my 4.6GHz overclock locked in, shaving a good 50W off the PBO alternative, 30C less and still gaming away easily at 4k 144


At stock settings, i'm the same (or worse) performance for over 150W more power consumption


----------



## The King (Sep 30, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Don't forget that +anything is overclocking and may not mix with any undervolting at all, curve or static
> 
> Hydra never worked great for me either, it's optimised for certain boards and glitchy on the rest


First day I got the CPU I wanted to see what Boost override would work at stock. (CPU AUTO) Only +25Mhz would go into windows and run stable without BSOD.
I was abit worried about that when I posted that because both my 5600 and 5600X can do +200MHz overide no problems.

After a few days of tinkering I can get +100Mhz to boot into windows and run stable by having CPU voltage -.0.0500V offset.

Now I run PBO disabled in the BIOS so no Boost overide no CO in the BIOS only -0.0500V. Everything else is set with Hydra and I have no issues. +16K in R23. CPUZ  ST 680 MT 6811 on Air.

Overall Im very happy with this CPU. Gaming performance is also really great, Games do seem to run abit smoother compared to my 5600/X


----------



## Zach_01 (Sep 30, 2022)

The King said:


> First day I got the CPU I wanted to see what Boost override would work at stock. (CPU AUTO) Only +25Mhz would go into windows and run stable without BSOD.
> I was abit worried about that when I posted that because both my 5600 and 5600X can do +200MHz overide no problems.
> 
> After a few days of tinkering I can get +100Mhz to boot into windows and run stable by having CPU voltage -.0.0500V offset.
> ...


Did you check for any WHEA?


----------



## The King (Sep 30, 2022)

Zach_01 said:


> Did you check for any WHEA?


WHEA is fatal when it comes to CPU OC. I immediately get BSOD if clocks are unstable or CO.

I managed to get +200Mhz Override to run eventually it was just one core that was boosting way too high. I adjusted that and now its fine.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 30, 2022)

The King said:


> WHEA is fatal when it comes to CPU OC. I immediately get BSOD if clocks are unstable or CO.
> 
> I managed to get +200Mhz Override to run eventually it was just one core that was boosting way too high. I adjust that and now its fine.



4.9 effective is already pretty good, man. You're pretty close to my 5900X (~4.93 for 687 CPU-Z and 1640 R23). Sub 4.7GHz Zen 3 is crazy consistent now but I find once you get to about 4.8GHz it's all a crapshoot, 5800X/5900X/5950X all beating or losing to each other on 1T clock left and right, SP is still too random.

My 5800X3D seems to be making it easy for me, -25 is stable and -30 seems alright too before testing. 5900X took me like 2.5 weeks to fully test because the distribution is like -2/5/30/10/20/15/20/20/20/20/20/20. Wack.


----------



## Andrea87 (Oct 1, 2022)

Following on this thread, I've experimented a little bit more with my 5800x.

Reduced the total power allowed to 100W, TDC 75A and EDC 90A. Max Boost +100MHz, offset voltage -0.0625V. Coming from 110W/80A/100A, I've seen almost no drop in cinebench - 15248 vs 15300ish, while temps fell a solid 5-6°C. Went from 67-68°C to 62.5 max in a 20°C Room.

I'll stability test the system properly with a few OCCT runs, then start tuning the memory. My brother has the same kit, should be able to hit 3600MHz without too much hassle.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 2, 2022)

The King said:


> First day I got the CPU I wanted to see what Boost override would work at stock. (CPU AUTO) Only +25Mhz would go into windows and run stable without BSOD.
> I was abit worried about that when I posted that because both my 5600 and 5600X can do +200MHz overide no problems.
> 
> After a few days of tinkering I can get +100Mhz to boot into windows and run stable by having CPU voltage -.0.0500V offset.
> ...


As a sidenote to this, my RAM overclock is unstable when my CPU passes 75C
Raising my SoC voltage made the RAM OC higher, but also raised the CPU temps bringing that instability back in


Part of the reason you're struggling could be higher ram clocks, higher ram rank counts, or the IMC's temps when you had PBO on

You can do +200Mhz, but limit the PPT and cTDP (hard temp limit)


----------



## The King (Oct 2, 2022)

Mussels said:


> As a sidenote to this, my RAM overclock is unstable when my CPU passes 75C
> Raising my SoC voltage made the RAM OC higher, but also raised the CPU temps bringing that instability back in
> 
> 
> ...


It was just one core that was causing windows to bluescreen with +200mhz. I had to give it a slight + to the CO on that 1 core.

In windows the other cores were boosting 4800 but core 2 was boosting 4925Mhz with the same voltages. so 125mhz higher than the other cores. when CO is all 0


----------



## Mussels (Oct 2, 2022)

I bought an x3D, so i'll be having all sorts of fun soon


----------



## Falcon216 (Oct 24, 2022)

I've spent a large amount of my last two weeks' free time delving into how my particular new-in-box 5800X works with my particular mobo (Asus X570 Prime-Pro) and AIO (Rev.6 420 no RGB).
Coming from a quite capable 3600 non-X which I understood very well, it's been a bit of a journey getting used to Zen3's behavior. Some of it I like, some of it could be better managed, and I believe a lot of it comes from how the motherboard has been programmed.

My particular parts combo and environment gets ~80C @ 28Cambient with a 135PPT/100TDC/125EDC.
What you'll notice in the R23 pic is I have AOC + 125Mhz -and- all-core CO -30.
I've read an All-CO -30 is guaranteed unstable, but it passes P95 blend test for 12 hours, and it passes hours of complex CPU heavy game tests like 2077, SOTR, and Civ

Which leads to my main point:
Some mobos must have implemented truly awful volt/clock behavior, like mine apparently, which is why a CPU in one board can overheat and run the same speed at 75C in another.
I've found the self reported core VIDs to be accurate for testing stability under load (they change based on how hard the core is hammered, so 1.12v for 4.4Ghz in R23 might need to be 1.18v in Prime95, like my 5800X), but my vcore out and thus SVI2 are always defaulting way higher than expected.
I've found Ryzen Master reports one voltage under load and the telemetry shows something completely different.
I've tried setting a negative offset to make SVI2 match requested core VID and it wrecked performance. I tried a positive offset and it throttled the chip.
None of my telemetry matches what the CPU indicates it wants from it's VF curve, and nothing I do or try in the BIOS, which is not a manual voltage, can match the Core VID tables/VF curves to actual supplied voltage.
It's baffling, astounding, and downright frustrating.

So if you've eliminated all variables like cooling, paste, mounting, and your BIOS options, any problem with temps and power for your expected clockspeed is likely the motherboard was programmed like trash and is the source of your hard times.
I can essentially only rely on PBO2+Boost offset with power limits, with CO maxed out -30 on all cores, to get heavy MT workload settings anywhere close to what I spent literal days checking and stability testing with p95 and R23.

Oh and then there was the time I tried to RAM overclock with DOCP enabled, not once, but three times. And had to reset my BIOS by touching the board jumpers until I figured out what I was doing wrong.
But that's just me


----------



## Zach_01 (Oct 24, 2022)

Individual core VIDs are somewhat useless.
The CPU request is only one and its the "CPU Core VID (effective)" below the SVI2 TFN sensor (by default sensor order)


----------



## BetrayerX (Oct 24, 2022)

As soon as I installed my 5800X, noticed how bad the temps where. I switched from a single tower cooler to a double tower one and still it hits 95C FAST on Cinebench. With Ryzen Master, I selected the Auto Overclock w/100+ on the speed and a Per Core optimization. LLC is set to 4 and that's all on the BIOS. Damn thing took like 75 mins to run and a few reboots.

After it got done, I kinda got the best of both worlds. Lower voltage and power consumption at idle and low workloads (everyday use) and a scary 140W power draw on high workloads. Speeds top at 4950 with the small detail that I see max temps on the low 80s instead on full workloads, compared to stock 95C (and I wonder if it throttled, didn't check, because it got hot fast). Pretty happy with the results.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 24, 2022)

Why do you have llc on if you have PBO enabled?


----------



## The King (Oct 24, 2022)

Even if you can do -30 ALL core CO that does not mean that you should do that and expect the best performance. Some cores actually loose performance going close to -30





VS higher - CO


----------



## freeagent (Oct 24, 2022)

If you lose performance getting close to -30 then you should increase power limits


----------



## The King (Oct 24, 2022)

freeagent said:


> If you lose performance getting close to -30 then you should increase power limits


PBO is on PPT 1000W.
Can't go any higher EDC and TDC at max too. Also LLC3 the secret sauce behind it all. 

To break 16K I had to use Hydra. The above R23 scores are not done using Hydra.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Oct 24, 2022)

freeagent said:


> If you lose performance getting close to -30 then you should increase power limits


I'm already 240 watts on 5600x. I do feel like this cpu could be better from lapper of direct die cooling as two cores are seemingly hotter then the others for no real reason.  I already tried remounting 5 times.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 24, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> I'm already 240 watts on 5600x. I do feel like this cpu could be better from lapper of direct die cooling as two cores are seemingly hotter then the others for no real reason.  I already tried remounting 5 times.


Try 200/140/180 all core -29 and see what happens, you should be getting 4850 solid.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 25, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> I've spent a large amount of my last two weeks' free time delving into how my particular new-in-box 5800X works with my particular mobo (Asus X570 Prime-Pro) and AIO (Rev.6 420 no RGB).
> Coming from a quite capable 3600 non-X which I understood very well, it's been a bit of a journey getting used to Zen3's behavior. Some of it I like, some of it could be better managed, and I believe a lot of it comes from how the motherboard has been programmed.
> 
> My particular parts combo and environment gets ~80C @ 28Cambient with a 135PPT/100TDC/125EDC.
> ...


curve undervolt goes unstable at idle, not at load


and yes some boards overvolt massively, which leads to the crazy variance in thermals

You may have more luck with the LLC controls instead of the offset, as the CPU performance is based on requested voltage (VID) which offsets adjust while LLC does not


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 25, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> I've spent a large amount of my last two weeks' free time delving into how my particular new-in-box 5800X works with my particular mobo (Asus X570 Prime-Pro) and AIO (Rev.6 420 no RGB).
> Coming from a quite capable 3600 non-X which I understood very well, it's been a bit of a journey getting used to Zen3's behavior. Some of it I like, some of it could be better managed, and I believe a lot of it comes from how the motherboard has been programmed.
> 
> My particular parts combo and environment gets ~80C @ 28Cambient with a 135PPT/100TDC/125EDC.
> ...



-30 is not "guaranteed unstable", stable CO is different for every CPU sample. You just need to figure yours out for each core through OCCT/corecycler if you really want to get to the bottom of it. For CO testing, you're completely wasting your time with Prime95 Blend.

VID is not useful. SVI2 TFN should only be relied on if you're under significant load (whether single core or otherwise). On the Prime-Pro you don't have another reliable die sense Vcore to rely on ("Vcore" from the Richtek controller is BS).

All DOCP/XMP does for mem OC is set a couple of voltages and major timings for you. It's your choice whether to set it or not set it when manually working on your RAM profiles, if your BIOS is made properly then it should not make a difference.

In general, your Vcore looks kinda weird. But it's hard to tell as you've scrambled the order of all the HWInfo entries. What BIOS are you running?


----------



## Mussels (Oct 25, 2022)

Oh i missed the DOCP/XMP stuff
Like everyone else on ryzen, you just need to raise your SoC voltage.

XMP raises DRAM voltage and sets the timings, but ryzen CPU's memory controller are only guaranteed to 3200 - above that, you're likely to need to raise the SoC voltage (especially for 4+ ranks)

1.15v is the higest i've needed, 1.10v is enough for 99% of people to max out what they can do (3600-3800 w/ 4 ranks) if the RAM is capable


----------



## BetrayerX (Oct 25, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Why do you have llc on if you have PBO enabled?


Just read somewhere (youtube guide I guess) it is more stable. And since all I can do is speak from my own evidence, it has worked fine.


----------



## Falcon216 (Oct 25, 2022)

Mussels said:


> curve undervolt goes unstable at idle, not at load
> 
> You may have more luck with the LLC controls instead of the offset, as the CPU performance is based on requested voltage (VID) which offsets adjust while LLC does not


I keep my system on 24/7, and haven't had any issues with any no/low load/ idle so far.

LLC has no effect (and it shouldn't) on performance or temps as long as you aren't pushing it too high and going over the requested vcore. See attached pics - one with (Asus') LLC3 and one on AMD's Auto spec. Notice how the delivered voltage to the cores is exactly the same (or would be on a longer average), but the voltage pushed out of the VRMs is necessarily higher. Notice also my CPU in R23 is basically unaffected. 
I set my LLC to provide a 20-30mv vdroop, nothing more, nothing less. In theory the only thing this effects in the physical world is some extremely minor efficiency gains for the VRMs, and in the virtual world the VID requested by the chip/platform. Again, as you can see, delivered vcore is practically the same and what I didn't include is that performance is the same 4675Mhz.










tabascosauz said:


> your Vcore looks kinda weird. But it's hard to tell as you've scrambled the order of all the HWInfo entries. What BIOS are you running?


Ok, I reset my hwinfo layout for you. Dunno why but here it is. BIOS 4403 w/ latest chipset drivers.


tabascosauz said:


> you're completely wasting your time with Prime95 Blend.


first I have ever heard that in 15 years. For me, and my experiences, if it passes P95 blend while I'm away at work, it's a functional CPU setting. simple as. This chip passed 12 hours of blend and a further 9 hours of AVX2. It works exactly as I need with no errors. That's all that matters.


tabascosauz said:


> VID is not useful. SVI2 TFN should only be relied on if you're under significant load (whether single core or otherwise). On the Prime-Pro you don't have another reliable die sense Vcore to rely on ("Vcore" from the Richtek controller is BS).


I have a few multimeters and can probe hardpoints if you really want, but the board sensors are accurate. What are you trying to say 

And just for fun here's a "cheater bench" of r23.
No other open apps except fancontrol, fans full blazing, 16C ambient (with AC running), a true OS idle, and R23 task priority set to High (it defaults to below normal), CPU receiving 1.25V from 1.281 delivered for ~4730Mhz average.





I think my settings, setup, testing, and understanding of the process works?


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 25, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> I keep my system on 24/7, and haven't had any issues with any no/low load/ idle so far.
> 
> LLC has no effect (and it shouldn't) on performance or temps as long as you aren't pushing it too high and going over the requested vcore. See attached pics - one with (Asus') LLC3 and one on AMD's Auto spec. Notice how the delivered voltage to the cores is exactly the same (or would be on a longer average), but the voltage pushed out of the VRMs is necessarily higher. Notice also my CPU in R23 is basically unaffected.
> I set my LLC to provide a 20-30mv vdroop, nothing more, nothing less. In theory the only thing this effects in the physical world is some extremely minor efficiency gains for the VRMs, and in the virtual world the VID requested by the chip/platform. Again, as you can see, delivered vcore is practically the same and what I didn't include is that performance is the same 4675Mhz.
> ...



So have you probed Vcore your physical CPU then?

"Vcore" that comes from the board's PWM is less reliable than SVI2 TFN, it's not die sense. You can probe the VRM all you want, that's not the Vcore actually getting to your CPU. SVI2 TFN can be funky at idle depending on setup, but it's the closest we have to a die sense.

You don't have to get defensive over Prime95... ? I didn't say it's a useless test, I said it's useless for undervolt testing. You're just running Blend all core. You don't test Curve Optimizer stability with all core. Run some OCCT core cycle function or the corecycler script and you'll see what I mean. You need as high as possible single core clocks to test curve optimizer settings, and all core just runs some of the lowest possible clocks because that's how boost works.


----------



## BetrayerX (Oct 25, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> And just for fun here's a "cheater bench" of r23.



What is that, or how do you do it? 1st time I see that term.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Oct 25, 2022)

BetrayerX said:


> What is that, or how do you do it? 1st time I see that term.


Taskmanager-> details->right click on CinebenchR23-> set prority -> realtime prority, Close taskmanager Click Run multi core bench. Not see it render on screen suddenly show score at the end.


----------



## BetrayerX (Oct 25, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> Taskmanager-> details->right click on CinebenchR23-> set prority -> realtime prority, Close taskmanager Click Run multi core bench. Not see it render on screen suddenly show score at the end.


Went from ~15500 to ~15900 ... so 400pts approx. Thanks for the information.


----------



## Falcon216 (Oct 26, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> You don't have to get defensive over Prime95... ?


----------



## The King (Oct 26, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> Taskmanager-> details->right click on CinebenchR23-> set prority -> realtime prority, Close taskmanager Click Run multi core bench. Not see it render on screen suddenly show score at the end.


If you running Benchmate then you can set this to Realtime permanently so you don't have to go into TM all the time to set it. Just be very careful not to set it to Realtime and do a 10 minute run because you wont be able to stop it or use your PC until the run finishes


----------



## Mussels (Oct 26, 2022)

LLC works because the CPU thinks it's getting the higher VID value so it doesn't clock down

It thinks its getting 1.20v so it runs at the clock associated with 1.20v - even if LLC makes it receive 1.15v
This is why voltage offsets hurt performance since they reduce VID after a certain threshold


as for the P95 thing, CPUs are different now. Intel for example has different multiplier settings for AVX workloads since they throttle so hard from the heat on them
Modern hardware is different, that's why R23 is commonly used since it's a fully threaded AVX workload and error sensitive


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Oct 26, 2022)

Mussels said:


> that's why R23 is commonly used since it's a fully threaded AVX workload and error sensitive


It's just not really that bad of a stress test. It's consistent and reliable way of measuring cpu render performance.

But can you get it to pass some y-cruncher or linpack extreme. Prime95 AVX2 or Intel Burn test maybe?

(I'm promoting burn testing  )


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Oct 26, 2022)

Got a 5600(non X) a few weeks ago and am just wondering what settings to use in Ryzen Master if I want a balance between good performance and temps? Running my CPU on a B550 PG Velocita with a 360mm be quiet! Pure Loop 2 FX AIO.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 26, 2022)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Got a 5600(non X) a few weeks ago and am just wondering what settings to use in Ryzen Master if I want a balance between good performance and temps? Running my CPU on a B550 PG Velocita with a 360mm be quiet! Pure Loop 2 FX AIO.



helluva cooler for 5600 lol

Temps will always be great. Stock 76W so you can try running the regular 65W  88/60/90 PBO limits to see if you gain any clocks in all-core work.

Open up PBO boost override to +200MHz - if 5600G are any indication 4650MHz single shouldn't be too hard just by raising Fmax like that. Then dial up curve optimizer to see if you get more clock improvements in all-core.


----------



## pf100 (Oct 26, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> first I have ever heard that in 15 years. For me, and my experiences, if it passes P95 blend while I'm away at work, it's a functional CPU setting. simple as. This chip passed 12 hours of blend and a further 9 hours of AVX2. It works exactly as I need with no errors. That's all that matters.


What he's saying is that Prime95 is useless for testing curve optimizer because curve optimizer only effectively comes into play under light loads or idle. You can set curve optimizer so that the cpu always crashes 100% of the time at idle and the cpu will still pass a thousand hour Prime95 test.


----------



## HD64G (Oct 26, 2022)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Got a 5600(non X) a few weeks ago and am just wondering what settings to use in Ryzen Master if I want a balance between good performance and temps? Running my CPU on a B550 PG Velocita with a 360mm be quiet! Pure Loop 2 FX AIO.


78W power limit, +200Hz override and -15 in curve optimizer and you are game! Only RAM tuning is needed after that to get the max. If you want to oc hard go for 90W of max power limit with PBO.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 29, 2022)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Got a 5600(non X) a few weeks ago and am just wondering what settings to use in Ryzen Master if I want a balance between good performance and temps? Running my CPU on a B550 PG Velocita with a 360mm be quiet! Pure Loop 2 FX AIO.


otehrs gave you good advice, but I personally like to run PBO on auto and disabled and record the values in HWinfo under R23 load and then aim in between them



ShrimpBrime said:


> It's just not really that bad of a stress test. It's consistent and reliable way of measuring cpu render performance.
> 
> But can you get it to pass some y-cruncher or linpack extreme. Prime95 AVX2 or Intel Burn test maybe?
> 
> (I'm promoting burn testing  )


It's consistent, easy to source and run - and it uses AVX.
AVX is key with modern CPU's since for a long time people didnt test with it, and then when games used AVX their overclocks went to absolute shit
Witcher 3 used it (lightly) and would either make systems unstable or force them to downlock with the AVX offsets, leading to a lot of people complaining about the game being unstable, buggy, blahblahblah


Unlike other programs because it's just the one test with an optional time limit you get a lot less user errors since some people would just fire it up without configuring first and assume alls well


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Oct 29, 2022)

Mussels said:


> otehrs gave you good advice, but I personally like to run PBO on auto and disabled and record the values in HWinfo under R23 load and then aim in between them
> 
> 
> It's consistent, easy to source and run - and it uses AVX.
> ...


Yeah, Y-cruncher is a lot more intense and consistent and easy to run also.

But I'd be willing to bet that your CB R23 stability testing won't be stable for a Y-Cruncher. At least this is the experience I have, seems quite a bit hotter than CB R23.


----------



## The King (Oct 29, 2022)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Yeah, Y-cruncher is a lot more intense and consistent and easy to run also.
> 
> But I'd be willing to bet that your CB R23 stability testing won't be stable for a Y-Cruncher. At least this is the experience I have, seems quite a bit hotter than CB R23.


Y-cruncher is also way harder on the RAM and VSOC compared to R23 which is mainly focused on the CPU

Its a great test to find out quickly if your RAM OC  and VSOC is unstable. Should run at least 3-4 cycles back to back 2.5B some run it for hours to check system stability.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Oct 29, 2022)

The King said:


> Y-cruncher is also way harder on the RAM and VSOC compared to R23 which is mainly focused on the CPU
> 
> Its a great test to find out quickly if your RAM OC  and VSOC is unstable. Should run at least 3-4 cycles back to back 2.5B some run it for hours to check system stability.


I'd like to see just a pass at 1b from a lot of braggers I've seen running around. 

Now don't get me wrong, I know this isn't an indication of gaming stability. Which is the backing argument of running CB R23 and calling it gaming stable, cause AVX. 

Nothing wrong with a burn in. Heat cycles are good for some thermal compounds like AS5 too!


----------



## Falcon216 (Oct 30, 2022)

ShrimpBrime said:


> heat cycles are good for some thermal compounds!


If Arctic could make an AS5 update I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I'll gladly trade a couple C for a "apply it once, forget it for 8 years" reliability. Thermal Grizzly makes fantastic OC enthusiast products, but those products just aren't as dependable as a "lesser performing" TIM.



ShrimpBrime said:


> I'd like to see just a pass at 1b


I still think motherboards are a huge culprit in behavior anomalies. While I understand a Ryzen 5000 should -not- work stable at -30 CO all core, my setup doesn't work -the way it's supposed to- unless I have it set to -30 CO.
I've been having a hard time looking for absolute top-end benchmark run results, as such I have zero real statistics to compare the quality of my 5800X with.
With that said, my chip just cannot do R23 at 4.95Ghz. I attempted a 14C ambient run at (fully reset/manual control) 1.365v (SVI2 input) and it ran for a whole 7 seconds before a full system crash. WHEA suggests a cache-level fault (i.e. too low voltage for the entire CCD), but I'm suspicious of temp-limit shutdowns due to the op-temp of 88C, who can even know what the real hotspot spikes are.

And to reiterate some previous posts - I still haven't had any idle/low load/light MT issues with my tested setting of 135PPT/100TDC/125EDC at -30CO. I'd expect a real world scenario of multiple RAM heavy browser + network multitasking + virtualization usage + mixed-load gaming to create SoC related errors, as I've seen in literally every PC pushed "too hard" with concurrent low/light MT RAM heavy loads in the past 15 years of my experience. These issues have not happened (yet).


----------



## The King (Oct 30, 2022)

Run Y-cruncher 2.5B at least 4 cycles with -30 all core if that can pass then you know your CO is good.

If not then its unstable. Many pass R23 with -30 all core 9/10 setups wont pass Y-cruncher with -30 all core.


----------



## Falcon216 (Oct 30, 2022)

Hmm but what if I don't need a 101% y-cruncher stable system?
Where's the functional limit for a more real, typical use case?


----------



## The King (Oct 30, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> Hmm but what if I don't need a 101% y-cruncher stable system?
> Where's the functional limit for a more real, typical use case?


Simply put that means your system is not stable with your CO settings and could crash when the RAM or VSOC is put under stress under normal usage like gaming etc.

Running R23 for hours does not mean your system is stable at all. Has I pointed earlier its only stresses the CPU and not much else. So good CPU test bad system stability test.

I can run -30 All core in R23 but if I run that while gaming after a few minutes reboot or BSOD.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 30, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> Hmm but what if I don't need a 101% y-cruncher stable system?
> Where's the functional limit for a more real, typical use case?



Unstable = unstable..........

However, if you don't want to spend too much time, you can run corecycler on just default settings (ie. not editing config file). Let it cycle through all the cores 2 or 3 times (about 6 minutes per run per core), and if error free then it should be good enough for games and daily tasks. My full testing routine for CO takes like 10 hours for 2 cores........so sometimes I'd just prefer doing default config. Didn't encounter noticeable daily stability issues with it on 5900X, 5700G (x2) and now 5800X3D.

GitHub - sp00n/corecycler: Stability test script for PBO & Curve Optimizer stability testing on AMD Ryzen processors

But like I said, it's more "should" than "will", and I'd still get in some more comprehensive testing down the line.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Oct 30, 2022)

How bad is the EDC bug on recent AGESA (newer than 1.2.0.3 C) hitting you guys? It's a major nuisance to me, like, an itch I can't scratch off. My CPU could really use the extra juice, it makes PBO worthless.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 30, 2022)

negative offsets are unstable at idle and low load



It is 0% likely that your system "doesnt work right" without it, and 100% likely something else is wrong - VRM's overheating, faulty hardware, incorrect settings - we cant know what until you figure it out either but avoid assumptions or you'll never get there.


----------



## Falcon216 (Oct 30, 2022)

You guys aren't answering my question and talking as if there aren't different levels of acceptable use case stability.
I mean, given the "tone" and ignorance, it's almost like people just want others to waste 48+ hours of time and electricity as a joke.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Oct 30, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> You guys aren't answering my question and talking as if there aren't different levels of acceptable use case stability.
> I mean, given the "tone" and ignorance, it's almost like people just want others to waste 48+ hours of time and electricity as a joke.



But there aren't. Your stuff is either stable or it has hidden flaws which *will* emerge due to how clock ramping, v/f curve etc. works. 

Giving you any advice on how to achieve an unstable overclock is just that: giving bad advice that people on the forum might also follow.


----------



## DemonicRyzen666 (Oct 30, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> You guys aren't answering my question and talking as if there aren't different levels of acceptable use case stability.
> I mean, given the "tone" and ignorance, it's almost like people just want others to waste 48+ hours of time and electricity as a joke.


I use Prime95 to test stablity, but I also don't bother running  high Infinity fabric I'm not anywere near 3800mhz In fact I'm below 3200mhz & I have Never had W.H.E.A errors, because of it. I also have never had a idle crash either. 
My chip is horribly hot running prime95 small FFT's it hits like 82C, but I've just concluded I've got a reather hot sample as no one else gets the temperatures I get. Large FFT's 72C-74C, Heck Blend I only hit about 59-60C in prime.
I'm running LLC right now with pbo it did low temps bylike 2C, but like I said I have hot a chip it likes to use a max of 1.362 for some all cores loads most 5600x don't like anything above 1.288 or less.


----------



## Falcon216 (Oct 30, 2022)

Dr. Dro said:


> But there aren't. Your stuff is either stable or it has hidden flaws which *will* emerge due to how clock ramping, v/f curve etc. works.
> 
> Giving you any advice on how to achieve an unstable overclock is just that: giving bad advice that people on the forum might also follow.


After reading from Y-Cruncher's very own website I have concluded that it and P95 Blend are essentially equal in capability, with p95 simply needing more time for an equivalent result.

From My Personal Experience: 8 hours of p95 with the highest AVX mode your CPU supports is adequate as a stability stressor. 
An 8 core cpu at 4.5Ghz is looking for 1 fault in 1e^15 cycles in this 8 hours. Moving up to 48 hours is not statistically significant enough to make a difference, and does not rule out thermal deviation induced instability or the dreaded "cosmic ray" bit flip.

So again, I don't understand the hardon for y-cruncher as a better proof over prime95.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Oct 31, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> After reading from Y-Cruncher's very own website I have concluded that it and P95 Blend are essentially equal in capability, with p95 simply needing more time for an equivalent result.
> 
> From My Personal Experience: 8 hours of p95 with the highest AVX mode your CPU supports is adequate as a stability stressor.
> An 8 core cpu at 4.5Ghz is looking for 1 fault in 1e^15 cycles in this 8 hours. Moving up to 48 hours is not statistically significant enough to make a difference, and does not rule out thermal deviation induced instability or the dreaded "cosmic ray" bit flip.
> ...



Generally, however that will also leave transient loads on the table. In addition to Y-cruncher or Prime, I also run memtest86 bootable and Realbench for some time to validate my configuration.


----------



## DAPUNISHER (Oct 31, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> or the dreaded "cosmic ray" bit flip.


I have had people look at me cross eyed when I explain that to them. They say things like "Sir, this is a Wendy's" 

When I was younger I would spend the time fine tuning, tweaking, and testing. Now? With the 5800X I'm typing from, I went in the UEFI, set it to ECO with +200MHz boost, done. I don't do anything harder than gaming though; no extended all core workloads. With a 240mm AIO in a full tower Phantek all fans on custom curve, in a large room at 23c, it might get in the high 60s during marathon gaming sessions while staying quiet. Like many others, the OOB experience was not so great.


----------



## Falcon216 (Oct 31, 2022)

DAPUNISHER said:


> I have had people look at me cross eyed when I explain that to them. They say things like "Sir, this is a Wendy's"
> 
> When I was younger I would spend the time fine tuning, tweaking, and testing. Now? With the 5800X I'm typing from, I went in the UEFI, set it to ECO with +200MHz boost, done. I don't do anything harder than gaming though; no extended all core workloads. With a 240mm AIO in a full tower Phantek all fans on custom curve, in a large room at 23c, it might get in the high 60s during marathon gaming sessions while staying quiet. Like many others, the OOB experience was not so great.


Yeh, tuning a chip has become it's own field of science, practically.
I dabble in some personal projects and the occasional use of video/image editing, but mostly use the PC as my boobtube.
As such, it will sit in the 60-70C range in the heaviest of games at my settings, and does most full-core work below 75C with the exception of truly horrifying in-cache AVX2 acceleration.

I always get a chill up my spine when per-core power wants to exceed ~13.5 watts. At less than 8mm^2 per core (cache slice included) that extrapolates out to a power density of 2 megawatt per meter square.


----------



## The King (Oct 31, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> After reading from Y-Cruncher's very own website I have concluded that it and P95 Blend are essentially equal in capability, with p95 simply needing more time for an equivalent result.
> 
> From My Personal Experience: 8 hours of p95 with the highest AVX mode your CPU supports is adequate as a stability stressor.
> An 8 core cpu at 4.5Ghz is looking for 1 fault in 1e^15 cycles in this 8 hours. Moving up to 48 hours is not statistically significant enough to make a difference, and does not rule out thermal deviation induced instability or the dreaded "cosmic ray" bit flip.
> ...


Y-cruncher Is better because it will find an Unstable CO in seconds or minutes compared to p95 that can take hours.
Example R23 almost -30 AC no issues. Ignore the score I was trying out different PPT/EDC/TDC





Same CO not even 1 minute into Y-cruncher - unstable. Running 8 hours off P95 is a waste of electricity IMHO when y-cuncher can do it in seconds.


----------



## Falcon216 (Oct 31, 2022)

The King said:


> Y-cruncher Is better because it will find an Unstable CO in seconds or minutes compared to p95 that can take hours.
> 
> Same CO not even 1 minute into Y-cruncher - unstable. Running 8 hours off P95 is a waste of electricity IMHO when y-cuncher can do it in seconds.



That's fine, so earlier today I ran Y-cruncher 5 billion a few times (got a 226.5 second run), then let it run the full test suite while I was doing my quarterly sunday house cleaning for about 3 hours. 
No crashes, no reboots, no halts, no test failures.

If you look back, read all of my speculation, and take my settings into account it may very well be that my Mobo is mucking the power settings up, my use of LLC levels is allowing a slight overvoltage (or maybe the correct voltage), and my PPT/TDC/EDC setup in conjunction with all of this is allowing a -30 CO to simply run the chip without problems.

But I have to say most of the "knowledge" regarding Zen3's behavior seems to be a mix of "It works this way for me" and "This voodoo Saturn magic from the 11th parallel alter-universe is a fact of law"
A true answer to all of this speculation would be comparing fully manual volt and clock settings, as it removes ALL variables and allows the tester to force unstable voltage levels while forcing a locked clockrate. 
Do you really KNOW your chip is stable at x clock and y volt?
I know my chip just cannot run R23 at 4.95Ghz, the voltage required slams into the 90C thermal limit, and running at 88C hotspot only gets me ~7 seconds before a reboot.
I know this because I test locked, manual settings to validate the automatic behavior I set up.
I set my PBO2 controls specifically because I want a 70-80C target, and from analyzing MANUAL locked settings -first-, I know my chip will do p95 (and now ycruncher) at 4.45Ghz at 1.135v at 75C.
From all of my testing I KNOW my particular 5800X is extremely efficient in the ~4.4-4.6Ghz range (heaviest AVX2 work to lighter AVX work), and every 50Mhz pushed requires climbing a voltage cliff that becomes dangerous after ~4600-4800Mhz.
From my hands-on manual testing I know what volt and what clock is unstable at which workload.
The "P##" word is apparently taboo and anathema to proof so I feel discouraged to talk any further about what I KNOW MY CHIP DOES.

I have not simply jacked random numbers into the settings because it gave me some R23 score I can be proud of. I set my 135/100/125 limits because it fits my cooling system and my desired temperature limits. I thus also set an all-core negative CO because after testing everything from a custom per-core based on the chip's FIT reporting, to everything from -15 to -30, the all-core -30 setting makes the voltage fall in line with the stable, known manual clockrates at such heavy benchmarking stress.

So what do you really know about how your chip functions?


----------



## The King (Oct 31, 2022)

I have been saying some of the same things if you look at my earlier post. I did say I had to use a combination of PBO and LLC to get the maximum out of my chip as well.

In my case I am limited with my Dual tower Air cooler so have not pushed my CPU beyond 4650 all core  was able to break 16K in R23 but still hit over 90 degrees so was considering getting an AIO.
I found that my chip does not drop clocks at 90C but only when it goes closer to 95C. I have not adjusted my temp limits in PBO. Still best to keep it under 90 at all times IMHO.

If I use one of the ECO mode option in the BIOS 45W/65W/95W and -CO at 30 that is much more stable than running it at MAX PBO so that is a factor to consider.
You could probably get -30 on all cores to work by adjusting PBO and other voltages


Another factor is the motherboard/BIOS/PSU power delivery etc. Some are better than others, some can deliver clean power low ripple many other factors can affect overclocking.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 31, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> A true answer to all of this speculation would be comparing fully manual volt and clock settings, as it removes ALL variables and allows the tester to force unstable voltage levels while forcing a locked clockrate.
> Do you really KNOW your chip is stable at x clock and y volt?



If this whole rant is just to disparage Precision Boost 2 in favour of fixed all-core OC, just say so lol. This is not a new topic since 2019 lol. All-core OC is neither dead nor useless, it's just unnecessarily restrictive for clocks, and not how the chips are designed. You have yourself proven that PB2 gives you lightly threaded boost that can't be reached with manual OC. But if you're happy with a fixed 4.5GHz, no one's stopping you.

How do we know it's not stable? Because the stress tests crash and error out when it's not, lol. Boost algo means there's always some variability in clocks, but it's not as if one iteration runs 4650MHz and the next one runs 4900MHz. It just needs a bit more time in testing due to that variability.

No one said _you_ have to spend 1000 hours running corecycler with P95 or ycruncher, but there's hundreds of pages of threads of other people who put in the time to figure it out. That's not "this voodoo Saturn magic from the 11th parallel alter-universe is a fact of law" just because you don't like it 

CoreCycler - tool for testing Curve Optimizer settings | Page 53 | Overclock.net



Falcon216 said:


> The "P##" word is apparently taboo and anathema to proof so I feel discouraged to talk any further about what I KNOW MY CHIP DOES.



You do know that corecycler runs Prime95 by default, right........? You know, the same default config that basically ensures "good enough" stability and only takes a couple hours at most........? lol

All everyone is saying is that CO negative offset undervolt generally is a question of single-thread stability.
To test that, you run a single threaded test that maximizes boost clock.
Running vanilla P95 Blend is not a single-threaded test. That's why we use a script that runs P95 in a useful manner.


----------



## Night (Oct 31, 2022)

DemonicRyzen666 said:


> My chip is horribly hot running prime95 small FFT's it hits like 82C, but I've just concluded I've got a reather hot sample as no one else gets the temperatures I get. Large FFT's 72C-74C, Heck Blend I only hit about 59-60C in prime.


I believe that's related to the stock cooler you have.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 31, 2022)

Dr. Dro said:


> But there aren't. Your stuff is either stable or it has hidden flaws which *will* emerge due to how clock ramping, v/f curve etc. works.
> 
> Giving you any advice on how to achieve an unstable overclock is just that: giving bad advice that people on the forum might also follow.


^ This

I changed my ram OC and had roughly one game crash a week. It passed any testing i threw at it, but something about the combination of loads from 3D gaming could trigger it over time that synthetic testing couldnt.

Just because I wasn't aware of it, didn't mean the instability wasn't there all along.


----------



## Falcon216 (Oct 31, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> :snipped:


You missed the entire context of my post.

Start with manual settings to learn where your chip's de facto hard limits are (i.e. "what does it take to run 11 watts per core, or what voltage rund AVX2 at 4.2Ghz without fail), and if it's more leaky or more "tight". Use this to know where your chip starts falling off the cliff, how it behaves under various loads.
From there, tune the PBO limits for a desired temperature min-max range, and then fine tune your CO to match the known stable voltages at the known stable clocks within those limits.

Since I know my chip doesn't work at 4.95Ghz and I've recorded the single core boost behavior at that and higher clocks, and since regardless of what AMD says is safe I want my chip to never exceed 1.35v per any core at any clock, I turn the boost down so the PBO controls match my criteria.
It's as simple as that. Do some heavy manual testing to -know- how the chip functions, and then set your PBO stuff to match what you've recorded as functional within your desired power/voltage/temp limits. From there do your final stability checks.

That, at least, is the method I used and it seems to have worked quite well, irrespective of whatever is common knowledge of what is proper for Zen 3.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Nov 5, 2022)

Falcon216 said:


> If Arctic could make an AS5 update I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I'll gladly trade a couple C for a "apply it once, forget it for 8 years" reliability. Thermal Grizzly makes fantastic OC enthusiast products, but those products just aren't as dependable as a "lesser performing" TIM.
> 
> 
> I still think motherboards are a huge culprit in behavior anomalies. While I understand a Ryzen 5000 should -not- work stable at -30 CO all core, my setup doesn't work -the way it's supposed to- unless I have it set to -30 CO.
> ...


Motherboard... Agesa used and also the memory kits. Not neccesarily 2nd'ary timings but thirds also. Primaries, obviously a pretty narrow selection on all kits such as 16-18-18 ddr4 as an example.

The Whea errors are going to be produced from two things.
Heat = cpu/chipset & memory.

So not going to focus strictly on a cpu temp, the SOC might be the culprit with high temps and whea errors (stability in general).

Just as a note, I try to remind people 70c.

Yes 70c. That's your cpu high temp alert. Designed to prevent a heat soak and throttle on default systems. This temp I recommened for many to focus on while under load.

But that temp is near impossible to obtain without chilling or super low ambient temps.

Transistors.
It's a balancing act.

How low can you adjust vcore before too many transistors stop working and create instability and lower cpu scores?

Why bother.... the vcore is not the main issue. On all 4 generations, self awareness of its running temperature reflects its boost and vcore use.

In theory, you'd use more vcore or soc or vdimm to obtain stability for any given overclock. Be it forced through pbo or not.

The draw back is cooling always.

Why cruncher?? It uses a bit of cache resources more so than CB23 for example. And most cache (memory also) doesn't particularly like overclocking and heat at the same time.

I've seen some posts of very decent overclocking. All they had in common is simply outstanding cooling solutions.


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 9, 2022)

I just got my Ryzen 7 5800X today and I saw these values in Ryzen Master when running Cinebench R23 with all cores loaded:

PPT=142W
TDC=95A
EDC=140A

Is this because of an issue with the ASRock B550 PG Velocita? Looks like PBO was set or sort of was set.


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Nov 9, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> I just got my Ryzen 7 5800X today and I saw these values in Ryzen Master when running Cinebench R23 with all cores loaded:
> 
> PPT=142W
> TDC=95A
> ...



Those are the factory defaults for the 5800x (and 5900x/5950x) without PBO.  It was pretty over-cooked out of the box.  Nothing wrong with your board.

Check out the first post in this thread for some alternate settings to cool it down.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 9, 2022)

I use PBO differently than everyone else it seems. I find the absolute maximum power that my CPU can draw, Then I change my power limits and test again, and I continue until I cannot get the CPU to draw more power. 235 PPT, 160 TDC, 190 EDC in the case of my 5900X using 1203. And with those numbers I apply my curve, whatever that may be... And I get the full boost, 5150MHz on multiple cores, and on something like Linpack it will run at 4500MHz. For WCG it will run at 4600-4650, same with F@H. No crashes, no errors, nothing. It will run Pi32M on all cores right to their limit, but always fails stock core cycler in the same spot... core 4. I think lol. But I did the same thing with my 5600X and it will pass core cycler at 4800MHz. Fuck that program lol


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 9, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I use PBO differently than everyone else it seems. I find the absolute maximum power that my CPU can draw, Then I change my power limits and test again, and I continue until I cannot get the CPU to draw more power. 235 PPT, 160 TDC, 190 EDC in the case of my 5900X using 1203. And with those numbers I apply my curve, whatever that may be... And I get the full boost, 5150MHz on multiple cores, and on something like Linpack it will run at 4500MHz. For WCG it will run at 4600-4650, same with F@H. No crashes, no errors, nothing. It will run Pi32M on all cores right to their limit, but always fails stock core cycler in the same spot... core 4. I think lol. But I did the same thing with my 5600X and it will pass core cycler at 4800MHz. Fuck that program lol


My 5600X seems to be a dud, as Chromium was randomly giving me access violation error reports, including when just scrolling down a web page, IIRC. I was randomly getting crashed tabs, when higher than 4.7 for single-core boosting. 

Your 5600X seems to be a golden sample, compared to mine.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 9, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> when higher than 4.7 for single-core boosting.


You probably just needed to raise your power limits, not mobo but your own in the advanced settings.


Edit:

I have some crap Adatas in there right now, but I still have it set to boost at 4850 even though it failed core cycler lol. It passed at 4800. I will run it again just to make sure i am not full of you know what 

Edit again...

No problems either and it's been a couple of years now


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 9, 2022)

freeagent said:


> You probably just needed to raise your power limits, not mobo but your own in the advanced settings.


That was with CTR under Windows 10. I was at a loss at what to change. I loved how fast it seemed, then boom, a sudden error report!


----------



## Nordic (Nov 9, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I use PBO differently than everyone else it seems. I find the absolute maximum power that my CPU can draw, Then I change my power limits and test again, and I continue until I cannot get the CPU to draw more power. 235 PPT, 160 TDC, 190 EDC in the case of my 5900X using 1203. And with those numbers I apply my curve, whatever that may be... And I get the full boost, 5150MHz on multiple cores, and on something like Linpack it will run at 4500MHz. For WCG it will run at 4600-4650, same with F@H. No crashes, no errors, nothing. It will run Pi32M on all cores right to their limit, but always fails stock core cycler in the same spot... core 4. I think lol. But I did the same thing with my 5600X and it will pass core cycler at 4800MHz. Fuck that program lol


I do something like that when I want maximum performance regardless of power consumption. I have tested at a variety of settings.


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 9, 2022)

Andrea87 said:


> I've got a 5800x, played around a bit with it.
> PPT 110W
> TDC 80A
> EDC 100A


Your ampere and watt settings made Cinebench R23 multicore score drop!


----------



## Mussels (Nov 9, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I use PBO differently than everyone else it seems. I find the absolute maximum power that my CPU can draw, Then I change my power limits and test again, and I continue until I cannot get the CPU to draw more power. 235 PPT, 160 TDC, 190 EDC in the case of my 5900X using 1203. And with those numbers I apply my curve, whatever that may be... And I get the full boost, 5150MHz on multiple cores, and on something like Linpack it will run at 4500MHz. For WCG it will run at 4600-4650, same with F@H. No crashes, no errors, nothing. It will run Pi32M on all cores right to their limit, but always fails stock core cycler in the same spot... core 4. I think lol. But I did the same thing with my 5600X and it will pass core cycler at 4800MHz. Fuck that program lol


the 8 core chiplet CPU's dont work that way, the heat density is too much

the 5600x and 5900x are 6 cores each and far, FAR easier to cool



RJARRRPCGP said:


> Your ampere and watt settings made Cinebench R23 multicore score drop!


That's kind of the point - you drop the heat and temps at the loss of some benchmark points that mean nothing in reality.
You might be faster in a 5 minute R23 run, but in real world use that lasts longer a heatsoaked cooler would result in a performance drop at some point in time

You also usually want to combine the curve undervolting with the limited PBO settings, you'll need to take time to tweak those values


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 9, 2022)

The best settings so far that are lower than the defaults in Cinebench multi-core for me:

PPT: 125W
TDC: 80A
EDC: 115A


----------



## Andrea87 (Nov 10, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Your ampere and watt settings made Cinebench R23 multicore score drop!


I would call a 16.3 - 15.5k drop insignificant, as it's 5% and I'll never notice it anywhere.

After further optimizations (ram overclocked to 3.8GHz, undervolt tuned down to 62.5mV) I've managed to hit about 15500 at 110W. That's a whopping 140 points per watt, way higher than the "fully overclocked" 110-ish p/w at 150W. I would say I get _almost the same _performance for 25% less power. 

Another thing to keep in mind, while this system is rather efficient overall compared to my old lga2011 xeon, electricity is still expensive in Europe. Prices are going back down a bit, but most contracts signed during the past six months are still in the ~0,4€/kw or higher price range. I'd rather have an optimized system than a power hungry one.


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 11, 2022)

Mine plunged down to the 15,200s, IIRC.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 11, 2022)

Andrea87 said:


> I would call a 16.3 - 15.5k drop insignificant, as it's 5% and I'll never notice it anywhere.
> 
> After further optimizations (ram overclocked to 3.8GHz, undervolt tuned down to 62.5mV) I've managed to hit about 15500 at 110W. That's a whopping 140 points per watt, way higher than the "fully overclocked" 110-ish p/w at 150W. I would say I get _almost the same _performance for 25% less power.
> 
> Another thing to keep in mind, while this system is rather efficient overall compared to my old lga2011 xeon, electricity is still expensive in Europe. Prices are going back down a bit, but most contracts signed during the past six months are still in the ~0,4€/kw or higher price range. I'd rather have an optimized system than a power hungry one.


5% in AVX all core sustained load, which will end up being 0-1% in anything else - only AVX uses that much power, and gaming doesnt use that much threads
Electricity here is ~25c per kwh

I kinda get why people in colder climates with cheap power don't care, but those of us paying a fortune to cool our house really do want that efficiency


----------



## Nordic (Nov 11, 2022)

I have cheap power and I run a maximum overclock in the winter. In the summer I can't handle the heat so I tune it back down to more efficient levels.


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 12, 2022)

Nordic said:


> I have cheap power and I run a maximum overclock in the winter. In the summer I can't handle the heat so I tune it back down to more efficient levels.


Our winters can be super-cold, especially at night! This was to my advantage with major OC'ing.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 12, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> This was to my advantage with major OC'ing


Nothing like cracking the window when it is -30 or 40c outside


----------



## The King (Nov 12, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Nothing like cracking the window when it is -30 or 40c outside


Next month will get cold here as well. 
Good time for some HWBOT record chasing benching sessions.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 12, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Nothing like cracking the window when it is -30 or 40c outside


at +40c those windows aren't safe to touch


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 12, 2022)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Got a 5600(non X) a few weeks ago and am just wondering what settings to use in Ryzen Master if I want a balance between good performance and temps? Running my CPU on a B550 PG Velocita with a 360mm be quiet! Pure Loop 2 FX AIO.


Looks like I need a cooler more like that with my 5800X, LOL!


----------



## Zach_01 (Nov 13, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Looks like I need a cooler more like that with my 5800X, LOL!


You have options before spending money.
Try first to cap temp. Set a CPU temp limit to 75°C for example (or to a temp you like) and see how the CPU behaves and if you are satisfied by it.
Alternatively you can try ECO mode. I think its 88W (87.5) for 5800X like the 5900X.
Or tweak PBO limits but that takes time and a lot of restarts and testing...


----------



## Mussels (Nov 13, 2022)

PBO limits including temps should be tried first, as they'll limit MT performance but not ST

The link in my sig has a few different suggestions from coldest, to stock performance, to above stock performance all using less power/heat than PBO going weeee


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 26, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Just remember that on ryzen you wont really get much lower temps, but you may get more sustained boosts


That reminds me of what seemed to happen with default PPT, TDC and EDC with the Cooler Master MA612 air cooler. It's like that's what's happening in CinebenchR23 for multi-core.


----------



## framebuffer (Nov 27, 2022)

Few weeks ago I upgraded my system with a 5800X and since I have not much experience with Ryzen I thought to ask a sanity check to experts in this thread

My settings

*BIOS*
PPT 142 (Auto by BIOS)
TDC 95 (Auto by BIOS)
EDC 140 (Auto by BIOS)
Curve -23 (all core)
boost override +50
(I know negative curve on PBO can lead to instability during idle/low load, not happened until now tho, so I hope it's fine)

*Cindebench R23*
Multi 16415 pts
Clock during multi: 4775~4825 (peak 4900)
Peak temp 73C

*y-cruncher*
_Benchmark Pi (5,000,000,000)_
Passed (222 sec)

_Component Stress Tester_
Passed (1 run of each test)
Notes:
- during few tests frequency dropped to 4600 on all core (*is this expected?*), on the others was comparabile to CB R23
- peak temp 77C

*Gaming*
Temp 60C (peak)
Frequency 4900 (all core)

Other system specs
- MSI MAG X570 TOMAHAWK WIFI
- 4x 8GB HyperX 3200 CL16 timings not optimised, just applied XMP profile (3200) and set 1T
- Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 (offset mount)


----------



## The King (Nov 27, 2022)

framebuffer said:


> Few weeks ago I upgraded my system with a 5800X and since I have not much experience with Ryzen I thought to ask a sanity check to experts in this thread
> 
> My settings
> 
> ...


Very good R23 scores. I never seen that high numbers without applying some manual OC certainly not alone form using CO only. Maybe Golden sample or unicorn chip.

Y-crunhcer 2.5B is a more popular way to compare your performance.

Temps are really good on the at Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280. I really like it was looking at getting one of these.

If you have time you can post your scores here using Benchmate in these two threads.








						Y-CRUNCHER - PI-2.5B Bench
					

Y-CRUNCHER - PI-2.5B, the bench is located in BenchMate, which you can download here - BenchMate 0.10.9.2 The CPU-Z - CPU and Memory partition should also be present in the picture, and the CPU partition should be the actual CPU frequency, not the one reduced by the power saving features, if...




					www.techpowerup.com
				












						Post your Cinebench R23 Score
					

you have your Fclk & uclk & memclk set to 1:2:2 ? I think you might get a bum if yo uset 1:1:2  Thanks for the suggestion. Quick OC on the cpu and a preset on the mem.  Haven't had much time on it yet.




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## framebuffer (Nov 27, 2022)

The King said:


> Very good R23 scores. I never seen that high numbers without applying some manual OC certainly not alone form using CO only. Maybe Golden sample or unicorn chip.
> 
> Y-crunhcer 2.5B is a more popular way to compare your performance.
> 
> ...



haha unicorn chip sounds good  so are my settings OK?
I posted the results in cb23 and yc threads


----------



## Dr. Dro (Nov 27, 2022)

framebuffer said:


> *Cindebench R23*
> Multi 16415 pts
> Clock during multi: 4775~4825 (peak 4900)
> Peak temp 73C



Quite good sample, you should be happy! Enjoy.


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Nov 28, 2022)

Dr. Dro said:


> Quite good sample, you should be happy! Enjoy.


My temps suck, it's like the meme of third-gen-Core i5 and Core i7. Or of course, like the stock push-pin Intel heatsink.


----------



## Dr. Dro (Nov 28, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> My temps suck, it's like the meme of third-gen-Core i5 and Core i7. Or of course, like the stock push-pin Intel heatsink.



The 5800X is a toasty chip. You can always treat yourself to a 280 or 360mm AIO sometime, perhaps a Noctua NH-D15/S.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 28, 2022)

5800x cares about the quality of your coolers baseplate and its location more than the size of the cooler (covered in the first post here)

If you want to control the temps without a better cooler, thats where you need to limit some things - you've found the maximum performance settings, now you can tune them. Find what the maximum EDC/PPT/etc was used during those runs and limit it 5/10/15% lower, and see how it affects performance. 15% less power might be 1% less performance, but take a load of heat off.


----------



## The King (Dec 6, 2022)

Hey guys so I was doing some testing with EDC today and I found some really weird results need
to verify with other 5800X users if this data is correct. Multiple runs I'm getting around +/-84W with 15K R23?

EDC 110A = 84w 15k




EDC 120A = 87w 15k



EDC 125A = 85w 15k



EDC 130A =84W 15K


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Dec 6, 2022)

The King said:


> Hey guys so I was doing some testing with EDC today and I found some really weird results need
> to verify with other 5800X users if this data is correct. Multiple runs I'm getting around +/-84W with 15K R23?
> 
> EDC 110A = 84w 15k
> ...


You're possibly getting a lower score than me, because of using Windows 10. It's possible that the scores are higher with 11.


----------



## The King (Dec 6, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> You're possibly getting a lower score than me, because of using Windows 10. It's possible that the scores are higher with 11.


My highest score is 16277 in R23 @ 152W. Not concerned about high score though its power consumption of 84W  for 15K score in R23 is that correct and what others are getting?


----------



## freeagent (Dec 6, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> My temps suck, it's like the meme of third-gen-Core i5 and Core i7. Or of course, like the stock push-pin Intel heatsink.


You need a nice Thermalright cooler to fix you up. People say X3D is a hot chip.. nah not at all


----------



## izy (Dec 6, 2022)

My 5700x with Chrome and some app in the background (dont think it makes too much difference anyway)


----------



## The King (Dec 6, 2022)

izy said:


> My 5700x with Chrome and some app in the background (dont think it makes too much difference anyway)
> 
> View attachment 273245
> View attachment 273246


Yeah weird stuff same PBO settings almost same score but showing 87W.


----------



## izy (Dec 6, 2022)

The King said:


> Yeah weird stuff same PBO settings almost same score but showing 87W.
> View attachment 273249


How is that possible? I see your 5800x is using 0.02v more your effective clock is lower and you probably have better cooling than me but the scores are the same.

Edit: Maybe the AutoOC / curve does something , i dont know.

Nice RAM OC , love to see it


----------



## The King (Dec 6, 2022)

izy said:


> How is that possible? I see your 5800x is using 0.02v more your effective clock is lower and you probably have better cooling than me but the scores are the same.


Running a dual tower aircooler. Its performing ok at the moment because of the cold temps here. What cooling are you using?



izy said:


> Nice RAM OC , love to see it


Not one of my best bins have to run RCDRD 16 on this. but not much difference in performance if it was at 15.


----------



## izy (Dec 6, 2022)

The King said:


> Running a dual tower aircooler. Its performing ok at the moment because of the cold temps here. What cooling are you using?
> 
> 
> Not one of my best bins have to run RCDRD 16 on this. but not much difference in performance if it was at 15.
> View attachment 273250


I am using ID-Cooling SE-224-XT, it does the job.


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Dec 6, 2022)

Rearranged the front case fans and got this on 11 22H2: (82C max, according to Ryzen Master, at the defaults) I noticed that when the temp gets higher, it seems to be boosting more. Windows build 22621, is indeed 11.


----------



## izy (Dec 6, 2022)

RJARRRPCGP said:


> Rearranged the front case fans and got this on 11 22H2: (82C max, according to Ryzen Master, at the defaults) I noticed that when the temp gets higher, it seems to be boosting more.
> 
> View attachment 273265


I am on win10 , what are your PBO settings / curve ? I will add some top exhaust on mine too not that i need it but why not


----------



## RJARRRPCGP (Dec 6, 2022)

izy said:


> I am on win10 , what are your PBO settings / curve ? I will add some top exhaust on mine too not that i need it but why not


I haven't changed anything yet, except when I tried some different power limits.


----------



## The King (Dec 6, 2022)

So I dropped EDC to 95A now I am getting 15.9K @ 85W




Dropped EDC to 90A and got even better score. 




So if you wondering what happens at 85A you guess it score goes up again!




Anywhoo midnight here need to hit the bed. Hope this was all not just some weird dream.


----------



## Ibizadr (Dec 6, 2022)

Later I post my results I'm on agesa 1.2.0.7 + 3800cl14


----------



## DR4G00N (Dec 6, 2022)

The King said:


> So I dropped EDC to 95A now I am getting 15.9K @ 85W
> 
> 
> Dropped EDC to 90A and got even better score.
> ...


Run with Realtime priority and you'll get a more reliable and higher result, this goes for all CB versions.

On normal priority with my 5600 @ 4.65GHz I get around 11700-11900 but on Realtime I get around 12050-12100.

Dropping the EDC from 160A to 90A (stock) yielded a higher score on normal priority but with Realtime it didn't change.


----------



## The King (Dec 6, 2022)

DR4G00N said:


> Run with Realtime priority and you'll get a more reliable and higher result, this goes for all CB versions.
> 
> On normal priority with my 5600 @ 4.65GHz I get around 11700-11900 but on Realtime I get around 12050-12100.
> 
> Dropping the EDC from 160A to 90A (stock) yielded a higher score on normal priority but with Realtime it didn't change.


Thanks for the tip but I always do all my runs in real-time only. Every CB run is only done in RT.
In Benchmate is set permanently to real time.

Refer to this post.








						5800x (and other Zen 3 chips) PBO settings/Temperature fix
					

Oh i missed the DOCP/XMP stuff Like everyone else on ryzen, you just need to raise your SoC voltage.  XMP raises DRAM voltage and sets the timings, but ryzen CPU's memory controller are only guaranteed to 3200 - above that, you're likely to need to raise the SoC voltage (especially for 4+ ranks)...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




Your 5600 score is about right I get around 12108 with mines so good score. Only noobs do their run in normal priority mode. j/K


----------



## Mussels (Dec 7, 2022)

freeagent said:


> You need a nice Thermalright cooler to fix you up. People say X3D is a hot chip.. nah not at all


x3D is freaking amazingly cold for what it is, it only warms up for AVX workloads

Isnt that EDC bug still around where once you pass a certain value, you can get a performance loss?

Effective clock is super important from HWinfo to tell if you're clock stretching, i can drop my voltage/temps a lot more on this CPU but it comes at the cost of effective clocks and therefore performance


----------



## The King (Dec 9, 2022)

The King said:


> @Mussels I need some help here please.
> 
> Leave it to me to buy a 5800X the week before ZEN 4 launches.
> 
> ...


Finally sorted out the PBO +200Mhz boost override issues I had on my B450.


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 9, 2022)

The King said:


> Hey guys so I was doing some testing with EDC today and I found some really weird results need
> to verify with other 5800X users if this data is correct. Multiple runs I'm getting around +/-84W with 15K R23?
> 
> EDC 110A = 84w 15k
> ...



I think you just found a new bug in AGESA   

Safe to say 87W would not get you to 80C, and none of the effective clock is correct for 15k (4.0, 4.2, 4.6). Did you ever figure out what setting broke everything at once


----------



## The King (Dec 9, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I think you just found a new bug in AGESA
> 
> Safe to say 87W would not get you to 80C, and none of the effective clock is correct for 15k (4.0, 4.2, 4.6). Did you ever figure out what setting broke everything at once


Not sure what is was. But did do a run with ECO mode 65W and 95W. These power figures should be more accurate than those. Temps are also lower here.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 10, 2022)

Huh go figure, my x3D is only a tiny bit behind your 5800x

as you can see with the eco mode, the effective clock dropped a fair bit - secret is to slowly raise PPT until that stops raising and you've got your max limit, and see if the temps are good there


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Dec 10, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Huh go figure, my x3D is only a tiny bit behind your 5800x
> 
> as you can see with the eco mode, the effective clock dropped a fair bit - secret is to slowly raise PPT until that stops raising and you've got your max limit, and see if the temps are good there


 Yeah, mine too. But it's not an AMD rig unfortunately. I suppose this is an ill comparison. :/


----------



## Mussels (Dec 11, 2022)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Yeah, mine too. But it's not an AMD rig unfortunately. I suppose this is an ill comparison. :/
> 
> View attachment 273908


definitely the weirdest zen CPU i've seen so far


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Dec 11, 2022)

Mussels said:


> definitely the weirdest zen CPU i've seen so far


Humps along pretty good though. When looking, it was either that or a 5600X. Which still want to do, but for my sons rig. To replace a 2700x. Just not sure if he needs 16 threads or if 12 will do ok.


----------



## MaddoggMiranda (Dec 20, 2022)

https://www.patreon.com/1usmus/posts?filters[tag]=HYDRA%20DOWNLOAD
		


1usmus Hydra is pretty awesome now for finding PBO Custom Curve as well as other things like OCing Radeon GPU's, Memory DRAM Calc etc.
You do have to subscribe to patreon to download it (until final release which will eventually be free but this could be a while yet) but its worth $9.50 as it works flawlessly for PBO in my findings. gained an extra 5%-10% performance over my manual PBO curve and it stress tests too. You can set the level of stress as well depending on your type of PC usage. Give it a try if you havent already its certainly worth a go for sure in my opinion. Hope it helps you all in more ways than one


----------



## Diceair (Dec 22, 2022)

So I played around with my limits and curve optimizer, Found the following to work for me

ppt =142
TDC = 95
EDC = 110
max boost override 100mhz
curve on -10 best cores and -26 rest

I'm on the following specs
5800x
fractal design s36 360mm
3600mhz ram g.skill overclocked to 3733 cl16-16-16-19
asrock b550 steel legend
Palit RTX 3080 ti gamerock (undervolted)
Windows 11 with latest updates

My phanteks enthoo pro case I modified so I can add 1 more fan in front so layout is as follows
2x cougar vortex pwm 70cfm fans front, 1x arctic p12 pst front
fractal cooler top as exhaust
rear 120mm arctic p12
I took the stock rear and installed it at the bottom as intake
I also removed my pci slot covers that helped with gpu temps a bit.

Now I did a test last night with everything as it is at 100% fan speed I can get about 15850-15910 4620mhz on Cinebench R23 now I have 3 extra arctic p12 fans lef over from the 5 pack so decided to literally put them on top of my case with side panel closed as exhaust and have the cable coming out the pci slot covers. I then started with 1 then 2 then 3 fans and every time I add a fan my scores increased a little bit with 2-3 fans I got consistently over 16000 points  with 3 fans or over 16050 +-4700mhz with same settings. I think if I can get them flush with the radiator it will be even better for my clock speeds.

Now I'm thinking how can I improve my temps maybe I should try push/pull on the radiator but don't know if it's a good idea to have different fans on top than on the bottom of the rad so bottom of rad stock fractal fans and top 3x arctic p12. Scared that might not be a good idea. The other thing is have to quickly look if I even did get enough screws to install another 3 fans on top.

TLDR: cooler = fractal s36, stock fans all fans in case and cooler 100% cbr23 = 15850-15910 4650mhz, Added 3x arctic p12 literally top of case full speed cinebench r23 = 16000-16050 +-4700mhz


----------



## Mussels (Dec 22, 2022)

That's a pretty good setup overall

push pull is perfectly fine with mismatched fans, that's not an issue at all other than setting them to different fan speeds (So they cant all be on the one controller, obviously)


----------



## Fry178 (Dec 22, 2022)

@Diceair 
iinm the fractal are flow, and the arctic are pressure fans, so swap that the arctic are the intake pushing onto the rad,
and the fractal pull behind it.
according to arctic, the P fans are supposed to pull when used alone,
but are better in pushing air, when used in combo (with other fans pulling).

so far seems to be working better, as my temps are same/tick lower, while running less max fan rpm), after switching the P14 to push (280 copper rad, two F14 pulling.


----------



## Diceair (Dec 22, 2022)

Fry178 said:


> @Diceair
> iinm the fractal are flow, and the arctic are pressure fans, so swap that the arctic are the intake pushing onto the rad,
> and the fractal pull behind it.
> according to arctic, the P fans are supposed to pull when used alone,
> ...


yes seems like I don't have enough screws to install 6 fans on radiator


----------



## Fry178 (Dec 22, 2022)

at least for the arctic, you might be able to use shorter screws between fan and rad,
and use the existing longer set to mount the exhaust fans from outside the case (rad/case/fans).
as long as they have the finer tread and fit the rad mount, even shorter ones should work,
mounting fans straight to the rad (no case metal between), sometimes drive/motherboard screws will fit.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 23, 2022)

Diceair said:


> yes seems like I don't have enough screws to install 6 fans on radiator


so use two screws on each, and buy some more


----------



## cyx2111 (Dec 24, 2022)

After many hours tests have some results and settings.
BEST CURVE OPTIMIZE TEMPS AND PERFORMANCE

PPT: 120W - TDC: 75A - EDC: 130A
FITSCALAR: X1
FMAX ENCH: OFF (BY ASUS)

BEST TWO CORES: (-18 AND -19)
THE THIRD MORE ACTIVE CORE: (-21)
SLEEP CORES (-28)

POWER MODE: BALANCHE MIN CPU: 5% - 100% MAX
PERFORMANCE: 100% - TURBO MODE: 0% VIA QUICKCPU PROGRAM

CB'R23 SCORE: 15.453 (12 RUNS)
PUMP: FULL RPM 100% (ARCTIC FREEZER II 360 ARGB)
FANS AIO (PUSH/PULL X6 120MM) 20C/40% 60C/70% 70C/100%

MIN TEMP: 30.1C IDDLE IN WINDOWS
MAX: 72C (RUNNING 10MINS CB'R23)
MAX: 75.5C PRIME 95 (30MINS WITHOUT ERRORS)

VRMs: 31C IDDLE - 39C MAX
CASE INSIDE TEMPS: 27C MAX VIA THERMAL CABLE
CPU CORE POWER: 1.18W IDDLE - 101.10W MAX
CORE CLOCKS: 2.880MHZ IDDLE - 4.850MHZ MAX
CPU CORE VOLTAGE: 1.22V IDDLE - 1.42V MAX

SPECS:
CASE: LIANLI DYNAMIC O11
AIO: ARCTIC LIQUID FREEZER II 360 ARGB / MX6 THERMAL PASTE
MOTHERBOARD: ASUS ROGSTRIX B550 E-GAMING
CPU: RYZEN 7 5800X
RAM: GSKILL TRIDENTZ DDR4 3200MHZ 16CL (8GB X4) 32GB
GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 3070 TI GAMING OC
PSU: CORSAIR RMX 650W GOLD - FULL MODULAR
M2: SAMSUNG EVO 970 PLUS 1TB
SSD: CRUCIAL MX500 2TB
HDD: TOSHIBA P300 3TB
CASE FANS: ARCTIC 120MM ARGB (TOTAL X12 INCLUDE AIO)
CASE FANS: ARCTIC 80MM (TOTAL X2)
MONITOR: ACER 34' ULTRAWIDE FLAT 3440X1440 GAMING 144MHZ 1MS

GAMING: 45C-67C MAX

ATTACH STOCK 5800X RESULTS - AND STANDAR OC ALL CORES 4.600MHZ @1.25V - PBO OFF - FMAX ENCH: OFF
CINEBENCH R23 BEST RESULTS (CURVE OPT. PER CORES)


----------



## Pleiades (Dec 28, 2022)

cyx2111 said:


> After many hours tests have some results and settings.
> BEST CURVE OPTIMIZE TEMPS AND PERFORMANCE
> 
> PPT: 120W - TDC: 75A - EDC: 130A
> ...


How is the CPU stability with such aggressive negative curve? I heard it can be unstable at low loads.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 28, 2022)

Pleiades said:


> How is the CPU stability with such aggressive negative curve? I heard it can be unstable at low loads.


It can take time for that instability to show up, when mine was right on the edge of stability i'd get maybe one game crash a week before i tuned it in fully


----------



## cyx2111 (Dec 28, 2022)

Pleiades said:


> How is the CPU stability with such aggressive negative curve? I heard it can be unstable at low loads.


Nothing stability when undervolting. 4 months now I  never had any crash. Have 14 titles on my main pc like WarZone 2.0, Arma 3, DayZ, Fifa 23, DCS World, NBA 2K23, F1 22, Automobilista 2, WRC Generations, ELDEN RING, Dead Stranding, The Forest and 2 more. I play 4-5 hours per day. My Pc still open 12h/24h.  Im works Photoshop and some music programs like Fruit Loops. Im ok atm with better performance and excellent temps.
With the 5600x I used Core Cycler. I'm bored now....Really I hate wasting time on something like that.
These values give the Ryzen Master after Curve Optimization by Per Core with custom settings by BIOS as:
PPT: 120W - TDC: 75A - EDC: 130A
FITSCALAR: X1 (or Auto) *with X1 is better for me.
FMAX ENCH: OFF

My board its one of the best B550 such as MSI B550 Unify, Gigabyte B550 Aorus Master......with 14+2 phases - Dual Output, VRM type DrMOS - excellent Mofset and one of the best PWM Controller.
Also the ARCTIC AIO for me is the "best AIO" ever at all. I tryed before 3 ΑIO's mores on my old 5600X: Raijintek EOS, Orcus, Thermaltake, Coolemaster. The Liquid Freezer II 360 is top on another level of performance and quiet peaks.
I can oc more +75mhz without problem with different high negative curve but I don't need it - the differences are non-existent in the gaming and i don't care to be a slave to the Cinebench scores.


Mussels said:


> It can take time for that instability to show up, when mine was right on the edge of stability i'd get maybe one game crash a week before i tuned it in fully


Yes dude, need time


----------



## Mussels (Dec 28, 2022)

Instability varies a lot depending on how you set it up
If you do the +200 for low threaded boost, you'll find it a lot harder to undervolt - my 5800x only did -5 with +200, and -15 with 0

These days we have a lot more automated tools to find problems much faster


----------



## lsevald (Dec 28, 2022)

Curious as to how zen3 fares with AVX2 stability. Particularly 1 threaded load. I'm currently building and testing a new zen4 computer, and have been plagued by random reboots at idle. Very hard to replicate, but one test I've seen that fails even at "stock" (BIOS defaults for Asus motherboards tends to be a little out of spec), is the Prime95 1 Core Smallest FFT AVX2 test (with hyperthreading turned off for single thread boosting and max clocks). I have managed to make it run stable, by lowering Vcore 0.015V and adding +5 Curve Optimizer for two problematic cores, one being Core 0 which probably is bad, and might reveal the issue I'm having, but also might not be related at all. I started this testing using P95 30.8 manually assigning affinity using Process Lasso (testing 1 thread for each core), but using Core Cycler is easier. I've attached two CoreCycler config.ini files, that should automate this (testing all cores). The torture one (rename it to config.ini before using) also includes the suspendPeriodically = 1 setting which makes it even harder stability wise, if anyone is up for giving it a try


----------



## Mussels (Dec 29, 2022)

lsevald said:


> Curious as to how zen3 fares with AVX2 stability. Particularly 1 threaded load. I'm currently building and testing a new zen4 computer, and have been plagued by random reboots at idle. Very hard to replicate, but one test I've seen that fails even at "stock" (BIOS defaults for Asus motherboards tends to be a little out of spec), is the Prime95 1 Core Smallest FFT AVX2 test (with hyperthreading turned off for single thread boosting and max clocks). I have managed to make it run stable, by lowering Vcore 0.015V and adding +5 Curve Optimizer for two problematic cores, one being Core 0 which probably is bad, and might reveal the issue I'm having, but also might not be related at all. I started this testing using P95 30.8 manually assigning affinity using Process Lasso (testing 1 thread for each core), but using Core Cycler is easier. I've attached two CoreCycler config.ini files, that should automate this (testing all cores). The torture one (rename it to config.ini before using) also includes the suspendPeriodically = 1 setting which makes it even harder stability wise, if anyone is up for giving it a try


idle reboots on zen3 are entirely related to SoC issues, too low an SoC voltage or too high infinity fabric

Everything would be stable at load and stress tests but crash at low loads - when the CPU was boosting individual cores to higher clocks vs the lower all core loads a stress test provides


----------



## lsevald (Dec 29, 2022)

Interesting, I'm going to test if this might apply in my case. It's my first Ryzen build, so I missed a lot of the "history" of previous gens.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 30, 2022)

Whats the full hardware setup of the PC?

Everyone, and i mean everyone forgets that Zen3 only supports 3200MT/s with two single rank sticks out of the box, and then tries to get 4 or 8 ranks running at 3600 off XMP and scratches their heads why it has issues






99% of the time raising SoC voltage to 1.10v or 1.15v resolves the common ryzen issues of low-load crashes and USB disconnects, because the SoC inside the CPU is memory, PCI-E and USB in one - errors or problems on one part, causes the others to risk resets or freezes (Hence PCI-E risers causing errors making USB ports reset and drop in/out)


----------



## lsevald (Dec 31, 2022)

Full specs are:

ROG STRIX B650E-E GAMING WIFI
Ryzen 9 7950X cooled with a Cooler Master 240 AIO
Kingston Fury Renegade DDR5 6400MHz 32GB (KF564C32RSK2-32), RAM speed doesn't matter for my problems, equally unstable at 4800 as 6200, and all RAM stability tests shows 0 errors
Gainward Phantom 4090
Western Digital Black SN850X 2TB (WDS200T2X0E)

I tested all the BIOS files available for this board, and played with the Infinity Fabric speed (tried 1600, 1800 and default 2000), and interestingly, with all voltages on Auto, Vsoc doesn't budge from 1.040V (BIOS thinks 1.040Vsoc is fine for 1600, 1800 and 2000IF). However, messing with RAM speed, Vsoc went all the way up to 1.335V for 6200 (4800 is BIOS default-> Vsoc=1.040V). So the BIOS ups the SOC voltage depending on RAM speed, and not IF. I tried to increase Vsoc manually (up to +0.25), but stability didn't improve. 

I posted in another thread here, that maybe I have encountered some sort of PBO/Curve Optimizer bug, that somehow survives clear BIOS/BIOS flashing/loading optimized defaults. But the more I think about it, I wonder if I'm being pranked by Ryzen Master. At some point early on when I got this system running, being new to Ryzen, I had to try Ryzen Master. And, of course, I also tried the Curve Optimizer "auto" optimizing feature. But after the initial "Reboot Required" prompt from Ryzen Master, the system refused to post. Which felt really odd at the time, and I tried powering the PSU off, let all power drain and start again, still nothing, and I had to Clear CMOS and load my good BIOS profile to get it back up. So somehow Ryzen Master made my BIOS settings unpostable. I didn't think of it at the time, but I wonder if this is where my problems started. Random reboots while gaming, hard to tell when it started, and soon also while just browsing the web. Most stability testers showed no problems however, until I tried P95 AVX2, which also made my system reboot.

So, how does Ryzen Master work? Does it mess with BIOS settings? Maybe there's some broken driver or service loaded in windows that still is trying to Curve Optimize my system...lol, I don't know, but I'm still on the same windows install.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 31, 2022)

lsevald said:


> Cooler Master 240 AIO


Be aware that's an entry level cooler and a poor one at that, it's not going to do well on a 7950x

People always forget that the memory controller is not RAM
Just because your RAM passes a RAM stability test doesn't mean that your memory controller can't have stability problems, since it's tied to other hardware as part of the SoC


6400 is too high for zen3, I'm not aware of many kits running on expo/XMP above 6000 without needing tweaking
No, auto doesnt think it's fine for X Y and Z IF - auto just has a few presets that are nothing more than guesses since DDR5 is in it's infancy, and it cant compensate for more memory modules or ranks


ryzen master literally changes your BIOS settings. That's what it does, and what it tells you it's doing before it restarts to apply them.


----------



## lsevald (Dec 31, 2022)

Yes, that makes sense. Full story is that I installed Ryzen Master, tried the Curve Optimizer once, which stopped my system from posting. After that I only used it to verify my settings in Windows (which is useful), and everything looked normal, all the PBO and CO stuff I applied in BIOS was reported as expected in Ryzen Master. I never used it to tweak my system after the first fail which didn't instill much trust (lol). But over the last few weeks I have tested many PBO and CO settings (via BIOS), and would expect anything once done by Curve Optimizer to be overwritten? I did flash my BIOS many times, Clear CMOS load Defaults. I'm thinking Ryzen Master was loading something in Windows that whacks up PBO/CO so my system became seriously flaky. And have done so completely hidden from view, not reported anywhere...

Anyway, Ryzen Master is gone now. And I will go back tomorrow and see if I can touch anything PBO/CO related again without my system going haywire.


----------



## Mussels (Dec 31, 2022)

lsevald said:


> Yes, that makes sense. Full story is that I installed Ryzen Master, tried the Curve Optimizer once, which stopped my system from posting. After that I only used it to verify my settings in Windows (which is useful), and everything looked normal, all the PBO and CO stuff I applied in BIOS was reported as expected in Ryzen Master. I never used it to tweak my system after the first fail which didn't instill much trust (lol). But over the last few weeks I have tested many PBO and CO settings (via BIOS), and would expect anything once done by Curve Optimizer to be overwritten? I did flash my BIOS many times, Clear CMOS load Defaults. I'm thinking Ryzen Master was loading something in Windows that whacks up PBO/CO so my system became seriously flaky. And have done so completely hidden from view, not reported anywhere...
> 
> Anyway, Ryzen Master is gone now. And I will go back tomorrow and see if I can touch anything PBO/CO related again without my system going haywire.


Yeah but if you loaded ryzen master again, it could have altered those settings again - even ones you're not aware of
Reset to optimised defaults and try fresh


----------



## tabascosauz (Dec 31, 2022)

lsevald said:


> Yes, that makes sense. Full story is that I installed Ryzen Master, tried the Curve Optimizer once, which stopped my system from posting. After that I only used it to verify my settings in Windows (which is useful), and everything looked normal, all the PBO and CO stuff I applied in BIOS was reported as expected in Ryzen Master. I never used it to tweak my system after the first fail which didn't instill much trust (lol). But over the last few weeks I have tested many PBO and CO settings (via BIOS), and would expect anything once done by Curve Optimizer to be overwritten? I did flash my BIOS many times, Clear CMOS load Defaults. I'm thinking Ryzen Master was loading something in Windows that whacks up PBO/CO so my system became seriously flaky. And have done so completely hidden from view, not reported anywhere...
> 
> Anyway, Ryzen Master is gone now. And I will go back tomorrow and see if I can touch anything PBO/CO related again without my system going haywire.



Can't say how AM5 has changed the layouts exactly, but in all recent Asus AM4 BIOSes there are multiple locations for both PBO and Curve Optimizer (except 5800X3D).

The most accessible PBO menu for most people is found under Tweaker tab, but when Ryzen Master changes your settings it instead edits the PBO menu found under AMD Overclocking. 

If you're testing Curve Optimizer, use your choice of something proper like corecycler, OCCT, or ycruncher with custom affinity. The "testing" tool for CO in Ryzen Master is not even on the radar in terms of effective testing


----------



## Mussels (Jan 1, 2023)

tabascosauz said:


> Can't say how AM5 has changed the layouts exactly, but in all recent Asus AM4 BIOSes there are multiple locations for both PBO and Curve Optimizer (except 5800X3D).
> 
> The most accessible PBO menu for most people is found under Tweaker tab, but when Ryzen Master changes your settings it instead edits the PBO menu found under AMD Overclocking.
> 
> If you're testing Curve Optimizer, use your choice of something proper like corecycler, OCCT, or ycruncher with custom affinity. The "testing" tool for CO in Ryzen Master is not even on the radar in terms of effective testing


the x3D can show up in both locations now too, as its been added to the latest agesa


----------



## candymancan21 (Tuesday at 10:38 AM)

On my 5800x3d i dont even have PBO... i cant change ANYthing on ryzen master.  Or in the bios.  Its on a gigabyte x570 aorus elite wifi.

I dunno if gigabyte disabled it or what is going on.. but i cant even overclock my 5800x3d if i wanted too.  First time in 23 years ive been locked outa overclocking.  Its funny.   Only thing i can do is flck and memory timings and overclock.

I mesn its fine.. i guess.. cpu does what i need it too lol.. but dang.   At least with athlon xps i could use a pencil to unlock it !!! LOL


----------



## Chomiq (Tuesday at 11:31 AM)

candymancan21 said:


> On my 5800x3d i dont even have PBO... i cant change ANYthing on ryzen master.  Or in the bios.  Its on a gigabyte x570 aorus elite wifi.
> 
> I dunno if gigabyte disabled it or what is going on.. but i cant even overclock my 5800x3d if i wanted too.  First time in 23 years ive been locked outa overclocking.  Its funny.   Only thing i can do is flck and memory timings and overclock.
> 
> I mesn its fine.. i guess.. cpu does what i need it too lol.. but dang.   At least with athlon xps i could use a pencil to unlock it !!! LOL


PBO settings for 5800x3d are dependent on the mobo vendor. Officially there's no tuning available for it. Either you get it with a BIOS update or you have to use modded BIOS. Alternative is PBO tuner in Windows with autoload on startup.


----------



## Mussels (Yesterday at 1:02 AM)

Chomiq said:


> PBO settings for 5800x3d are dependent on the mobo vendor. Officially there's no tuning available for it. Either you get it with a BIOS update or you have to use modded BIOS. Alternative is PBO tuner in Windows with autoload on startup.


He's gone. Problems in other threads.
His board doesnt have that BIOS update yet


----------

