# NVIDIA Fermi-based GeForce GPU Further Delayed?



## btarunr (Dec 29, 2009)

NVIDIA's next-generation GeForce GPU based on the Fermi architecture is reportedly further delayed to March 2010, up from its originally expected time-frame of January. NVIDIA on its part maintained that Fermi-based GeForce GPUs will be released sometime in Q1 2010, and with a March launch, that would still stand true. 

Fermi's development history is marked with late arrivals. The DirectX 11 compliant architecture was announced in October 2009 to counter the market-available DirectX 11 compliant ATI Radeon HD 5800 GPUs. Then in mid-November, the company released the first products based on the architecture - GPGPU accelerators under the NVIDIA Tesla HPC banner. An alleged working prototype GeForce accelerator was spotted around the same time, with word doing rounds that NVIDIA will be ready with the new GeForce GPU in early Q1, probably coinciding with the CES event. Faced with further delays, NVIDIA reportedly notified its partners that the new GPUs will be released to the marked only in March.

NVIDIA plans to launch the 40 nm Fermi-GF100 GPU which is DirectX 11 compliant and supports GDDR5 memory in March, and will launch a GF104 version. Till then, the mainstream-thru-performance segments will be left to be defended by GeForce GTS 250, GT 240, GT 220, 210, 9800 GT, against a fortified mainstream lineup by AMD consisting of ATI Radeon HD 5670/5650 (codenamed "Redwood"), and ATI Radeon HD 5450 (codenamed "Cedar"). These DirectX 11 compliant GPUs from AMD will be released in January.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## pr0n Inspector (Dec 29, 2009)

As expected.
Good thing I don't need a new computer anytime soon.


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## TooFast (Dec 29, 2009)

ATI has a huge lead now... by march we should see a 5890 etc....


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## v12dock (Dec 29, 2009)

o lordy lord what ever will nvidia do....


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## Deleted member 3 (Dec 29, 2009)

TooFast said:


> ATI has a huge lead now... by march we should see a 5890 etc....



Is that so? How many people actually have 5000 series cards then?


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## ste2425 (Dec 29, 2009)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> Is that so? How many people actually have 5000 series cards then?



quite allot actually, or are planning on gettin them


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## Weer (Dec 29, 2009)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> Is that so? How many people actually have 5000 series cards then?



Happy 1,000th thank!


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## Imsochobo (Dec 29, 2009)

> Is that so? How many people actually have 5000 series cards then?



900 000 has the 5xxx.
550 000 has the 57xx
do the math and 350 000 has the 58xx.
350 000 divided by two is 175 000 (ati gets 50% 5850 and 50% 5870 at the moment)
175 000 has 5870
175 000 has 5850.
More exact than that cannot anyone else than ATI give.

Huge lead? yes.


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## TAViX (Dec 29, 2009)

Probably ATI with the new 5xxx series beat up also the unreleased "Fermi", so they are trying now to further improve the drivers, or even the GPU, who knows... Therefore, I'm 80% sure that the new top GPU solutions from Nvidia will be faster than ATI's similar. By how much, remains to be seen. What is certain, is that by that time, ATI will have a nice market share.


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## newfellow (Dec 29, 2009)

lead? perhaps momentary.

ATI kicked the dust for so long I can't say they 'lead' anything. Just their time I think to take the share. Own some 58x0 cards and not planning to go to Fermi. Although, NVIDIA current cards are way better than ATI anything even now thanks to ATI driver support.


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## DrPepper (Dec 29, 2009)

They have a lead in the DX11 market. Since there are no competitors then its hard not to lead. That market is still tiny compared to DX10 cards and DX9. 

That said this news will make some people who are waiting for Fermi to switch to ATI since waiting til an almost obsolete card arrives is futile.


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## LittleLizard (Dec 29, 2009)

now that has been confirmed this is nothing but more bad news for the green side.


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## Mattgal (Dec 29, 2009)

*Nvidia Fail*

great!! was going to buy a new pc around February. new i will have to either wait another month or "screw nvidia" and buy a HD5850!


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## Tatty_One (Dec 29, 2009)

ste2425 said:


> quite allot actually, or are planning on gettin them



What? with stocking levels at only 50% worldwide and in Europe at only 35%... it's more of a case of finding one without paying a huge premium (outside of N America that is).  All credit to AMD for getting to the market place MUCH sooner than NVidia but c'mon, there is a long way for them to go before they top NVidia's market share, I would guess that the vast majority of graphic card sales worldwide in the last quarter have not been HD5XXX series cards, simply because of availability and the fact that most users are not "enthusiasts"..... the biggest market of course being OEM which demand either integrated graphics or lower level mobile chips.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 29, 2009)

this is going to really hurt nvidia sales FTL.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Dec 29, 2009)

TAViX said:


> Probably ATI with the new 5xxx series beat up also the unreleased "Fermi", so they are trying now to further improve the drivers, or even the GPU, who knows... Therefore, I'm 80% sure that the new top GPU solutions from Nvidia will be faster than ATI's similar. By how much, remains to be seen. What is certain, is that by that time, ATI will have a nice market share.



A company that is going to be over a half a year behind (when new GPU generations almost come out yearly) is going to jump ahead when it's been a few months since the top GPU hit the market? By the time March rolls around ATI is going to have an abundance of time to release another 58xx card, thats if they already aren't able to. Right now there is no point, the instant the GT300 is announced to land, expect a 5890 to be announced to crush the party.


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## Fourstaff (Dec 29, 2009)

So its GT300 Vs 6XXX now?


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## Cold Storm (Dec 29, 2009)

I really don't think that it's going to hurt anything.. Nvidia has more going on for them then ATI. Their development of Tegra has allowed them to gain more following in other area's then just the PC GPU market. They have a tablet in the works for them also.. Yes, right now maybe slow. But, their just getting their stuff together before they let it all go. 

This isn't a stant from a Nvidia person. I'll have a amd/ati rig up and running in a few weeks.. I just prefer Nvidia for ther all around use. IMO of the whole ATI/Nvidia aspect


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## Marineborn (Dec 29, 2009)

did i read a article that nvidia says the few month lead ati has doesnt mean shit, that article should read the year lead ati has doesnt....OH SHIT!! a year lead. lol


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## TAViX (Dec 29, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> Right now there is no point, the instant the GT300 is announced to land, expect a 5890 to be announced to crush the party.



Haha, agree.


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## theorw (Dec 29, 2009)

We must not forget that 5xxx series will have a price drop as soon as fermi hits he selves so they will be even more tempting!
I d much prefer a 260-280 euros 5870 or a sub200EURO 5850 than a 400+ or so GT300 no matter the performance difference cos both will handle my FULL HD monitor no problem.My 5770 does so 58xx will be fine!Am i correct or what?


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## TAViX (Dec 29, 2009)

theorw said:


> My 5770 does so 58xx will be fine!Am i correct or what?



Not to mention that a 5770 in Crossfire is faster than any 58xx...


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## Cold Storm (Dec 29, 2009)

We'll see a price drop, but hopefully we'll see it to where their not out of stock.

Yep the 5770's are sweet cards. I can't wait to have my hands on two.


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## Bo$$ (Dec 29, 2009)

all speculation and utter crap, non of you really know whats up, wait and see what happens, even lower end cards are fine in modern games, 9800gt SLI is fine in dirt 2 @40FPS 1920x1080, 3850 is fine at crysis @35FPS 1920x1080, 5XXX series and GT3XX series is un-needed power which is a waste of money at the end of the day


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## Marineborn (Dec 29, 2009)

*Stares at bo$$* there is no such thing as uneeded POWER!!! what if i need 2 run to versions of crysis at the same time! DONT ASK QUESTION!!! it is needed. lol


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## Cold Storm (Dec 29, 2009)

But, it's not all about the games... GPU's are used in more then games.. Rendering, Photoshop, Cad, Video editing.. There's more to it then just Games.. I love the fact that it doesn't take as long for my GTX 295 to render a project. That's what I grabbed a High end card..


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## TAViX (Dec 29, 2009)

Marineborn said:


> What if i need 2 run to versions of crysis at the same time! DONT ASK QUESTION!!! it is needed. lol



Why 2??? You can barely play fluently (and not on all levels) Crysis on a 5970 card...



Cold Storm said:


> But, it's not all about the games... GPU's are used in more then games.. Rendering, Photoshop, Cad, Video editing.. There's more to it then just Games.. I love the fact that it doesn't take as long for my GTX 295 to render a project. That's what I grabbed a High end card..



Then you should have bought a professional 3D card like Quadro...


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Dec 29, 2009)

Delayed eh? Ima just wait then ^^. And would still wait a bit longer for the price to settle down on the post hype plateu .


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## Cold Storm (Dec 29, 2009)

TAViX said:


> Then you should have bought a professional 3D card like Quadro...



I don't do professional end stuff, so a Quadro would be more of a waste of money then just getting a high end card.


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## Bo$$ (Dec 29, 2009)

Marineborn said:


> *Stares at bo$$* there is no such thing as uneeded POWER!!! what if i need 2 run to versions of crysis at the same time! DONT ASK QUESTION!!! it is needed. lol




seriously i JUST upgraded to dual 9800gt crysis at X4AA @1920X1080 a solid 40FPS


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## Bo$$ (Dec 29, 2009)

Cold Storm said:


> But, it's not all about the games... GPU's are used in more then games.. Rendering, Photoshop, Cad, Video editing.. There's more to it then just Games.. I love the fact that it doesn't take as long for my GTX 295 to render a project. That's what I grabbed a High end card..



rendering takes less than a few seconds on most apps with these cards, i use all of the above and few are GPU accelerated anyway


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## Sasqui (Dec 29, 2009)

Reading this makes me happy that I splurged on a 5870... at least happy for the moment!

Though I am ATI loyal, I hope the 300 GPU brings another "Leap Frog" performance jump.  Competition is a good thing


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## Cold Storm (Dec 29, 2009)

Bo$$ said:


> rendering takes less than a few seconds on most apps with these cards, i use all of the above and few are GPU accelerated anyway



Yeah, there is a few that are GPU accelerated, but you can say the same thing with DirectX 11... Just a few out there.

I know ATI cards can render, but I'm stating as in where Nvidia has went with the companies to go and work to use their products.. 


I just feel, Nvidia is a better well rounded card then ATI. Not that ATI isn't good. I do like ATI, It just for me, Nvidia helps me out more then ATI.



Now to everyone.. Do you feel that Nvidia gave ATI the stuff due to all the legal stuff that went down this year with Nvidia/ati? I'm not saying that ATi didn't do a stand up job at getting a great series of cards out. I'm just thinking the reasoning for the push back might be legal terms they came up with due to the legal blows that happened...


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## PP Mguire (Dec 29, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> They have a lead in the DX11 market. Since there are no competitors then its hard not to lead. That market is still tiny compared to DX10 cards and DX9.
> 
> That said this news will make some people who are waiting for Fermi to switch to ATI since waiting til an almost obsolete card arrives is futile.



ATI have the market lead in a market that dosent exist yet. DX11 games are .... 1. By the time Fermi comes out we might have.... 2. So how is the card obsolete? Nvidia dosent give a crap about ATIs puny attempt at a GPU considering their year and a half to 2 year old GPUs are still keeping up with ATIs current DX11 gen. So i say, how is Fermi gonna be obsolete by the time it hits shelves? The DX11 market wont have even begun yet and it will just be another ATI stomping party. No nvidia fanboy, just i hate to see misinformed and uneducated posts like this flying around in a topic such as this. Coming from somebody who knows Fermi chips are gonna own.


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## mdm-adph (Dec 29, 2009)

btarunr said:


> Fermi's development history is marked with late arrivals. The DirectX 11 compliant architecture was announced in October 2009 to counter the market-available DirectX 11 compliant ATI Radeon HD 5800 GPUs. Then in mid-November, the company released the first products based on the architecture - GPGPU accelerators under the NVIDIA Tesla HPC banner. An alleged working prototype GeForce accelerator was spotted around the same time, with word doing rounds that NVIDIA will be ready with the new GeForce GPU in early Q1, probably coinciding with the CES event. Faced with further delays, NVIDIA reportedly notified its partners that the new GPUs will be released to the marked only in March.



That's funny -- just not too long ago I was being told that the G300 had always been on schedule for late December 2009, there's never been ANY real delays, and everything was going smoothly.

I wonder if Newtekie will _finally_ admit that the G300 is behind schedule now.  



newtekie1 said:


> The Q4 2008 and Q1 2009 dates were nothing more than extremely early speculation based on nothing, it was never official from nVidia. Just a bunch of news reporters saying it "could" be out by Q4 2008, or it was comeing out "as early as" Q1 2009.
> 
> Q4 2009 has been the official release schedule since nVidia announced it back in December 2008.
> 
> So, no, it was never Q4 2008, then Q1 2009. It has always been Q4 2009.





PP Mguire said:


> ATI have the market lead in a market that dosent exist yet. DX11 games are .... 1. By the time Fermi comes out we might have.... 2.



I still don't understand this reactionary response to declare the 5000 series as only leading in the "DX11 market."  

Last I checked, the 5000 series were also the fastest-performing DX10 cards.

I bet they're fastest in DX9, as well.

And let's not get started on DX8.


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## Mussels (Dec 29, 2009)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> Is that so? How many people actually have 5000 series cards then?



quite a lot, really. 5770's are rather popular, and dont seem to have shortage problems.





> NVIDIA reportedly notified its partners that the new GPUs will be released to the *marked* only in March.



marked = market?


the point is, while the 5k cards may have a useless lead in DX11, its a few months where people come and ask "what do i buy?" to websites, friends, family, and coworkers. and the longer it takes for nvidia to get a DX11 card out, the more and more people will reccomend people buy a DX11 ATI card for "future proofing".

its a slow, gradual effect - its not going to take them out of business or anything, but its still a negative for nvidia.


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## mdm-adph (Dec 29, 2009)

Mussels said:


> the point is, while the 5k cards may have a useless lead in DX11, its a few months where people come and ask "what do i buy?" to websites, friends, family, and coworkers. and the longer it takes for nvidia to get a DX11 card out, the more and more people will reccomend people buy a DX11 ATI card for "future proofing".
> 
> its a slow, gradual effect - its not going to take them out of business or anything, but its still a negative for nvidia.



Screw DX11-capabilities -- I'm already recommending ATI's 5000 series just for EyeFinity and superior OpenCL support.


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## PP Mguire (Dec 29, 2009)

Im considering a 5770 just for a cheap replacement for my 4850


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## Cold Storm (Dec 29, 2009)

mdm-adph said:


> Screw DX11-capabilities -- I'm already recommending ATI's 5000 series just for EyeFinity and superior OpenCL support.



Eyefinity.. I forgot all about that.. I knew there was a reason that I wanted to pick up a ATI card to play with..


Wasn't with the 4xxx series that everyone went for a 4850 due to how the performance was? Just like the 5770's?


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## Mussels (Dec 29, 2009)

eyefinity, openCL, direct compute, DX11, extremely good power efficiency (stunning at idle)


yes, nvidia will come out with a beefy card. but if they cost $500 and use 250W of power, most people arent going to touch it.

I guess a lot of fanbois need to remember that Nvidia hasnt always been on top, in the GF4 and FX series, ATI managed to take the lead for some time. Its certainly possible for another time like that to roll around.


as to those defending nvidia with the "wait and see" approach, lets try that:

ATI: cards already out.
Nvidia: nothing.

Hmm.. so far, i see ATI in front. and since i cant predict the future (accurately), i'm going to stick with the idea that "ATI is in front, and will be for a few months"


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## PP Mguire (Dec 29, 2009)

For a few months compared to the few years Nvidia is out in front. My ti4600 kicked my uncles 8500 btw.


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## Cold Storm (Dec 29, 2009)

Oh yeah, ATI will be in front for sometime to come. For me, I'm happy that it's happening. A lot more can come out from this.


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## shevanel (Dec 29, 2009)

more time to save up that $699 I'm going to need if I want to play with one of the cheap ones.

even when it does launch.. will they have enough supply? will ati's stock be fortified enough to lure in the people out looking to buy sold out GT3s?


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## Mussels (Dec 29, 2009)

PP Mguire said:


> For a few months compared to the few years Nvidia is out in front. My ti4600 kicked my uncles 8500 btw.



well duh, radeon 8500 was the competitor to the Geforce 3, not the GF4 Ti.

http://www.guru3d.com/review/ati/radeon8500/


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## PP Mguire (Dec 29, 2009)

The G3 was the competitor but 4000 was the answer to 8500. My 4600 even rivaled the mighty 9700pro in some areas when overclocked. 9800pro ftmfw. Way off topic though


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## AsRock (Dec 29, 2009)

Well there both having issue's with 40nm and and if not sorted out the ATI 6xxx range will be getting to that point were it's in the same boat as nV.

This to me is allowing ATI to catch up on whats on the GPU it's self but once that die size gets bigger the more issue's start for ATI too.

And if there was no 40nm issue for ATI i'm sure nV would be doing a lot better too.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2009)

TAViX said:


> Why 2??? You can barely play fluently (and not on all levels) Crysis on a 5970 card...
> 
> 
> 
> Then you should have bought a professional 3D card like Quadro...



no that would be stupid. a quatro is good if you need to do fast openGL or something. but in all honesty i dont even think their all that faster. its all a matter of perspective really i mean pixar may want the extra 2 hours it would take my 4GPU's to render it put them twords another frame. but imo 2 hours isnt worth an extra 4k. ill just get a BJ and skip down to the mall get some dunkins and another vid game. come back and it will be done.


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## LaidLawJones (Dec 29, 2009)

If Crysis is now for all intent and purpose, playable, does it really matter if Fermi is a powerhouse of a card? All of the games seem to be made for console's first and PC second. From what I can gather, console/PC games do not really use the power of a PC to full capacity. Being designed for PC is what made Crysis such a good game.

So if Fermi beats ATI, then what will be the claim to fame? To be able to say this card plays 10fps over that card is not really very impressive when there is only one game to test with. 

The 5870 owned all of the games except Crysis, so what is the point of hyping  a better card for games if you are already at or over (sometimes way over) 100fps?

They should be working on the angle that this is THE card for DX11 and future games and will win over ATI. Until we see a lot of DX11 games made for the PC, we just have two cards battling for Crysis supremacy and what they may do with programs and games that haven't been written yet.

DX10/.1 is lying on the canvas. This round may belong to whomever can convince the public that their card is better at running programs that don't exist.


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## cdawall (Dec 29, 2009)

DanTheBanjoman said:


> Is that so? How many people actually have 5000 series cards then?



more people have 4xxx series cards than 5xxx series cards even here on this forum





PP Mguire said:


> The G3 was the competitor but 4000 was the answer to 8500. My 4600 even rivaled the mighty 9700pro in some areas when overclocked. 9800pro ftmfw. Way off topic though



my 4200 rivaled the 9800PRO when i oc'd it. they all carried the same cores just different clock speeds on them and i was lucky enough to have a 4800's core on my 4200  340/680 all day long on that card


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## Mussels (Dec 29, 2009)

my ti 4200 OC'd to 4600 speeds as well. Nv had the lead there. they didnt next generation.

a question to PP's comments about the 8500 vs 4600:

In your mind, is fermi going to be the counter/equal to ATI's cards that are out NOW, or out at the time fermi comes out?

To me, its got to counter the cards that come out when fermi does. Thats going to be ATI's refresh, and ATI has a 6 month lead there. That is why i beleive ATI is ahead here. (NV's first gen cards tend to be hot, power hungry, fast, and expensive. look at 8800GTX and GTX 280) - vsing something like that against something even more power efficient than ATI's 5K cards... well, i know which one average joe is going to get - the one that doesnt make his PSU explode.


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## Easy Rhino (Dec 29, 2009)

must...resist...buying...gtx...275...


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## Mussels (Dec 29, 2009)

Easy Rhino said:


> must...resist...buying...gtx...275...



come to the red side. we have DX11, eyefinity, and santa.


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## kid41212003 (Dec 29, 2009)

Look like the $ is staying in my wallet for a bit longer now.


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## Marineborn (Dec 29, 2009)

Mussels said:


> come to the red side. we have DX11, eyefinity, and santa.




and cookies, most importantly cookies


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## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2009)

Mussels said:


> come to the red side. we have DX11, eyefinity, and santa.



i was going to tell him to get the 275....but santa is a pretty good barganing chip. well played


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## Mussels (Dec 29, 2009)

Marineborn said:


> and cookies, most importantly cookies



thats the firefox team, not the ATI team.


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## Easy Rhino (Dec 29, 2009)

Mussels said:


> come to the red side. we have DX11, eyefinity, and santa.



yea but no folding!!!!!!!!!!!


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## HossHuge (Dec 29, 2009)

So by the time Nvidia rolls out Fermi,  ATI will roll out their HD5890 according to WIKI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...ocessing_units#Evergreen_.28HD_5xxx.29_series


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## Easy Rhino (Dec 29, 2009)

HossHuge said:


> So by the time Nvidia rolls out Fermi,  ATI will roll out their HD5890 according to WIKI
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...ocessing_units#Evergreen_.28HD_5xxx.29_series



and?


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## Binge (Dec 29, 2009)

I don't get it... FAIL LOSE DEFEAT?

NV never said when in Q1 they would release consumer Fermi based cards.  One source said January, another March, and yet another source says April.  Witchcraft!


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## Easy Rhino (Dec 29, 2009)

Binge said:


> I don't get it... FAIL LOSE DEFEAT?
> 
> NV never said when in Q1 they would release consumer Fermi based cards.  One source said January, another March, and yet another source says April.  Witchcraft!



they should be burned at the stake!


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## pr0n Inspector (Dec 29, 2009)

HossHuge said:


> So by the time Nvidia rolls out Fermi,  ATI will roll out their HD5890 according to WIKI
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...ocessing_units#Evergreen_.28HD_5xxx.29_series



I believe you mean "according to an article written by some random anonymous persons on the Internet with few citations".


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## Binge (Dec 29, 2009)

Easy Rhino said:


> they should be burned at the stake!



I'm more apt to hunt rabble rousers.



Easy Rhino said:


> must...resist...buying...gtx...275...



I'll have a 280 soon enough if all goes well.  I can get it to you on the cheap.


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## HossHuge (Dec 29, 2009)

Easy Rhino said:


> and?



And ATI will continue to rule the world!!



pr0n Inspector said:


> I believe you mean "according to an article written by some random anonymous persons on the Internet with few citations".



OK, I admit it.  It was me.....


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## theonedub (Dec 29, 2009)

If F@H would get their GPU3 client out I would rock ATI in a heartbeat- that is after I get a look @ the PPD  Im getting tired of waiting for Fermi and it looks to be hot and expensive- two things I am not big on..


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## gnesterenko (Dec 29, 2009)

*Facts suggest otherwise*



Tatty_One said:


> What? with stocking levels at only 50% worldwide and in Europe at only 35%... it's more of a case of finding one without paying a huge premium (outside of N America that is).  All credit to AMD for getting to the market place MUCH sooner than NVidia but c'mon, there is a long way for them to go before they top NVidia's market share, I would guess that the vast majority of graphic card sales worldwide in the last quarter have not been HD5XXX series cards, simply because of availability and the fact that most users are not "enthusiasts"..... the biggest market of course being OEM which demand either integrated graphics or lower level mobile chips.



Is that why up until only recently you couldn't even order one off NewEgg because they were constantly out of stock? Even now, there are 4 or 5 models that are unavailable with the invite to be notified once they get more stocks in. Sure the 4xxx series are selling like hot cakes because they are cheap and stores want their inventory cleared, but the fact that the 5xxx chips were so hard to come by until literaly after Chrismas means that they've been selling pretty well too. Of course part of the problem is the supply is low - TMSC yields are still very poor - but the fact that ATI is sellin em almost as fast as they can make em is nothing short of devastating to nVidia. The green team is quickly headed to where ATI was up until they put out the 4870/4850 that turned the market upside-down. I doubt the Fermi is going to do that for nVidia - maybe the G400 series will?

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."


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## DrPepper (Dec 29, 2009)

PP Mguire said:


> ATI have the market lead in a market that dosent exist yet. DX11 games are .... 1. By the time Fermi comes out we might have.... 2. So how is the card obsolete? Nvidia dosent give a crap about ATIs puny attempt at a GPU considering their year and a half to 2 year old GPUs are still keeping up with ATIs current DX11 gen. So i say, how is Fermi gonna be obsolete by the time it hits shelves? The DX11 market wont have even begun yet and it will just be another ATI stomping party. No nvidia fanboy, just i hate to see misinformed and uneducated posts like this flying around in a topic such as this. Coming from somebody who knows Fermi chips are gonna own.



Did I say Fermi will be obsolete when it arrives ? No I said it would almost be obsolete because as you may know in the tech world it changes monthly. 

Also you say my post is uneducated and misinformed ? I don't see how it is because I made an obvious statement, being that they were the only competitors in the DX11 market and that DX10/9 is a bigger market. 

I do not see any year and a half old cards keeping up with ATi's 5850,5870 and 5970. Ati's mainstream performance card the 5770 is almost on par with a 260 216 which was nvidia's mid range card but cheaper at release than the 260. This is not misinformation this is fact. 

Also your totally being "fanboyish" in that whole post so please reflect on your own post before calling mine uninformed uneducated crap.


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## Abir053 (Dec 29, 2009)

40-nm yields have stabilized according to many sources. so from now on we are not going to see any shortages of ati 5000 series. that means the actual sale-rate starts from now on......

amd knows how to do business.

Nvidia sucks big time, i have no idea what they'r doing. i've been an nvidia fan since geforce 3ti but now they r veryyy unpredictable.

I bought my first ati card, sapphire 5870 a few days ago and to be honest it's freakin awesome.....an outstanding performer.


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## EastCoasthandle (Dec 29, 2009)

Binge said:


> I don't get it... FAIL LOSE DEFEAT?
> 
> NV never said when in Q1 they would release consumer Fermi based cards.  One source said January, another March, and yet another source says April.  Witchcraft!



How soon we forget about the 4th Quarter 2009 release:
On Sept 24, 2009:


> *OFFICIAL: NVIDIA says GT300 on schedule for Q4 2009, yields are fine*​Our sources [and the senior managers] are still saying that the GT300 is slated for a Q4 2009 launch. This means that you should expect the new GT300 to show up around the end of November. This is most likely a follow up to Editor's Day that should happen at the beginning of November.  Most likely nVidia is pitching the GT300 chip exactly three years after its revolutionary G80 [also known as NV50] architecture, pitching it right around Thanksgiving, however from what we are hearing it is looking more like the very end of November or early December.


source


Followed by their GPU Technology Conference.  In which many thought there would be a 4th Quarter release.  :shadedshu


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## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2009)

EastCoasthandle said:


> How soon we forget about the 4th Quarter 2009 release:
> On Sept 24, 2009:
> 
> source



ya but that doesnt count. so they released the 310...zomg thats cool. too bad its the same as what was the card? a 210 or 220. that isnt the real 3xx series thats some crap.


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## department76 (Dec 29, 2009)

fermi delayed?  that's a real shocker.  i can't wait to see how they run though, it better be realllllllll good for nvidia not to take a big hit.  i guess it is better to wait and get it right than to rush something to the market that still had major issues *cough* first phenom  *cough*


5990 anyone?  it's just as possible as other people's wild claims hahaha.


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## EastCoasthandle (Dec 29, 2009)

Actually it does count.  Because during that time the release date was never refuted. Also, BSN wasn't the only source reporting a 4th Quarter release.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 29, 2009)

EastCoasthandle said:


> Actually it does count.  Because during that time the release date was never refuted. Also, BSN wasn't the only source reporting a 4th Quarter release.



well then i suppose "count" is a matter of perspective because in my mind the 3xx series launch is when we get a DX11 card NOT a rebrand from a previous series...which i will add is a rebrand from the series before...which makes a GT310 the equivilent to like an 8400GS


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## department76 (Dec 29, 2009)

just thought of something else too, although it could have already been mentioned i didn't actually read all 3 pages of this thread lol.

so even if fermi comes out "on time" in march and is price/performance competitive, nvidia is still leaps and bounds behind in the mobile market.  by march i'm imagining mobility 5xxx to be in laptops everywhere.  when will we see a real mobile geforce 3xx that isn't just a rebrand(expecting it to happen again)?  could be an entire year from now.

don't you just love speculation threads


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## dir_d (Dec 29, 2009)

I really dont think there will be a 5890 this time. I think because ATI wants to change up the architecture and go down to 28nm that they will skip the 5890 let the green camp have their lead and try to get the 6xxx series out and try to take the lead with a more efficient GPU and APU even.


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## Bo$$ (Dec 29, 2009)

wow in 2-3 hours this thread has gone wild   , nothing but useless banter about something that doesn't exist yet :shadedshu :shadedshu :shadedshu

have fun


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## Edito (Dec 29, 2009)

its funny cause we all know that current nvidia cards deliver great performance and tech (cuda+physx+great drivers) and the current games work just fine on nvidia cards and i prefer tu keep my GTX285 and play all the current games on max setting except DIRT 2 with Dx11 that i just can't differ from Dx10 and pay $50 or $100 just for that less than 5 games with Dx11 and some frames per second... Fermi will rock like all other nvidia cards since 8800 series... ATi better RUN and improve as much as they can cause March will be the deadline for them...


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## KainXS (Dec 29, 2009)

basically what happened was they were supposed to be demo'd in Q4 2009 to investors and whatnot and shipped to vendors in January 2010, but now they are going to be shipped in march by the looks, if you count in the time it take for vendors to recieve the cards(shipping takes a few weeks) your looking at a very late march release, more than likely a solid april release.

I wonder what exactly happened though because the high end telsa the C2070 was delayed (more than likely connected to this problem) but the other one wasn't, maybe its a problem with high binned cores.


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## Kantastic (Dec 29, 2009)

KainXS said:


> basically what happened was they were supposed to be demo'd in Q4 2009 to investors and whatnot and shipped to vendors in January 2010, but now they are going to be shipped in march by the looks, if you count in the time it take for vendors to recieve the cards(shipping takes a few weeks) your looking at a very late march release, more than likely a solid april release.



Goodie, that's close to my birthday so I'll have an excuse to upgrade my 5770 to something more powerful.


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## Binge (Dec 29, 2009)

EastCoasthandle said:


> How soon we forget about the 4th Quarter 2009 release:
> On Sept 24, 2009:
> 
> source
> ...



I didn't forget it, but I also didn't forget more current news.  When more recent news from NV states Q1 I tend to ignore the idea of a Q4 release.  Also it's the end of Q4... they say Q1, and what do I think?  It could be any time between the beginning and end of Q1.  It would be retarded to speculate, and doing so would just express my hopes for a new card to be released.


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## my_name_is_earl (Dec 29, 2009)

The current hd5970 can pretty much handle any game without lagging. Don't see anyone in their right mind to upgrade to a faster card beside bragging rights. If ATI doesn't have a new card to answer Fermi on their release then I think ATI will have more hd5xxx card availability for their advantage.


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## csendesmark (Dec 30, 2009)

_I am waiting for the next-gen ati _


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## Tatty_One (Dec 30, 2009)

gnesterenko said:


> Is that why up until only recently you couldn't even order one off NewEgg because they were constantly out of stock? Even now, there are 4 or 5 models that are unavailable with the invite to be notified once they get more stocks in. Sure the 4xxx series are selling like hot cakes because they are cheap and stores want their inventory cleared, but the fact that the 5xxx chips were so hard to come by until literaly after Chrismas means that they've been selling pretty well too. Of course part of the problem is the supply is low - TMSC yields are still very poor - but the fact that ATI is sellin em almost as fast as they can make em is nothing short of devastating to nVidia. The green team is quickly headed to where ATI was up until they put out the 4870/4850 that turned the market upside-down. I doubt the Fermi is going to do that for nVidia - maybe the G400 series will?
> 
> "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."



Most of what you say agrees with me, the important thing however is that you think they are being made available at sufficient levels and are selling so quick that there is never enuff to meet the consumers requirements, when in fact the position is...... IMO (outside of N.America.... which was my origional point), they are not selling well because they have NEVER been readily available, and those that are (in most cases) are being sold well above AMD's suggested retail price...... my point being that sales are not going very well because of limited availability.

Now you will see from my specs that I am not a "green" supporter, however, if NVidia launched a series of what is clearly a ground breaking architecture and they were not readily avialable to the masses..... many would shout..... "paper launch".... my point being that AMD, if they could throw out double the numbers that they are would really saturate the market and perhaps make more money, the fact that they are unable to (based on the fact that I would buy a 5870 if they were available and at suggested UK retail prices) suggests to me that they are missing a trick somewhat!


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 30, 2009)

thats 1 thing tmsc is falling apart, and i suspect the 6000 hd radeons to be done by GF.


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## jimmyme (Dec 30, 2009)

omg.... ppl relax.
there is so much  fan-boy-ism in this thread it makes one ill.
ATi had a large lead and this latest -`delay` to a hardware noone on the planet is yet to witness- makes it all the larger. FINISHED. 
Actually Im more concerned with Nvidia`s affixation with creating bland, uninteresting comics about Intel`s lack of a GPU to worry about the fact they themselves have none?!?!?!? OMFG?!?!???! 
Peraonlly, I`m believe never buying another Nvidia GPU because of their childish, demeaning, arrogant appraocach to business... ohh well
Fact is Nvidia need to wake up... FINISHED....
The only real loser is the consumer... shame really...


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## Tatty_One (Dec 30, 2009)

As of Q3 2009 (latest figures), intel is the world leader in Graphic solutions with a Market share of 52.7%, whilst NVidia enjoy 24.9% and AMD enjoy 19.8%.

Clearly IGP Motherboard solutions rulz!


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 30, 2009)

obviously because of the common user is the majority, they only care about if it turns on and that is about it. When it comes to fixing their stuff they come to the enthusiasts for help.


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## EastCoasthandle (Dec 30, 2009)

Solaris17 said:


> well then i suppose "count" is a matter of perspective because in my mind the 3xx series launch is when we get a DX11 card NOT a rebrand from a previous series...which i will add is a rebrand from the series before...which makes a GT310 the equivilent to like an 8400GS


Odd, I wasn't talking about their re-branding which we are already aware of (and most dislike).  But their attempt to take some of the 5000 series attention away by allowing the rumors of a Q4 2009 release of their competing card.  Ultimately it didn't work.  And, now it's clear they weren't ready in Q4 2009 and it's still sketchy when they will be ready in 2010.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 30, 2009)

EastCoasthandle said:


> Odd, I wasn't talking about their re-branding which we are already aware of (and most dislike).  But their attempt to take some of the 5000 series attention away by allowing the rumors of a Q4 2009 release of their competing card.  Ultimately it didn't work.  And, now it's clear they weren't ready in Q4 2009 and it's still sketchy when they will be ready in 2010.



o my bad then i must have missed that.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Dec 30, 2009)

PP Mguire said:


> ATI have the market lead in a market that dosent exist yet. DX11 games are .... 1. By the time Fermi comes out we might have.... 2. So how is the card obsolete? Nvidia dosent give a crap about ATIs puny attempt at a GPU considering their year and a half to 2 year old GPUs are still keeping up with ATIs current DX11 gen. So i say, how is Fermi gonna be obsolete by the time it hits shelves? The DX11 market wont have even begun yet and it will just be another ATI stomping party. No nvidia fanboy, just i hate to see misinformed and uneducated posts like this flying around in a topic such as this. Coming from somebody who knows Fermi chips are gonna own.



1 game? Dirt 2, Battleforge, STALKER call of Pripyat? BF BC 2 beta is out in less than a month supporting DX11 also, and AVP is slated for Q1 2010 also DDO and LOTRO are both slated to be running DX11 in Q1 2010. 

And no a GTX 285 is not a 2 year old GPU, (maybe its based off one but its still not 2 years old), if you mean the year old 285 keeps up with the budget top end 5850, thats exactly what was intended, to release a whole line of cards over $300 for all of them would be stupid. 

If you over see all of that, saying your not a NV fanboy seems kind of pointless. That list of games that are out or will be out before NV even makes it to the party is a real nice list of games. I mean I want to see some competition here, so far 5850's and 5870's have increased in price. But to say NV isn't worried, or for some people to think that they are going to come back from a half a year slouch to grab the crown and expect ATI to have taken a half year off and done nothing, thats just crazyness.



Bo$$ said:


> wow in 2-3 hours this thread has gone wild   , nothing but useless banter about something that doesn't exist yet :shadedshu :shadedshu :shadedshu
> 
> have fun



It's a thread about a product that isn't out yet, that has some harsh competition. There isn't going to be anything in here except people guessing the future, I'm not sure what else you expect from a thread like this?


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## 1c3d0g (Dec 30, 2009)

:shadedshu I believe something resembling an intelligent discussion would be more appropriate on such a site rather than watching a crowd of angry toddlers flinging mud at each other while their favorite Fortune 500 corporations are laughing all their way to the bank.

This is why I don't give a d@mn about PC gaming anymore. In 6 months both cards are superseded by new ones anyways, so who gives a f*ck? Really?!? Mine is bigger than yours, yours is bigger than mine, crybaby here, crybaby there...JUST SHUT THE F*CK UP! Let the best GPU win, and remember to fold for a good cause. Flame me all you want, I really do not care at all and I won't read this garbage of a thread because I'm too busy playing my favorite games *right now* instead of thinking which game I might want to play in 2011.

/me goes back to his console, quietly enjoying his games without worrying which driver will work this time, is it 12.54321.98 or will 12.54321.97 be enough?

Some food for thought.


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## imperialreign (Dec 30, 2009)

I'm getting the feeling nVidia might be heading into some turbulent waters here, soon . . .

Fermi seems to be so far off track at this point, it makes one kinda curious as to how this has happened . . . is it due to the fact that it's been so long since nVidia have R&D anything "new" that doing actual R&D has set them back?  It defi can't be a funding issue . . . Perhaps they've run more into performance issues, and the new hardware isn't living up to expectations?  

IDK . . . I don't really care, either.

I'm interested to see what these cards will be capable of . . . when they come out . . . but I can't help but get the impression that nVidia is trying to compete with vaporware at this point.  Trying to build up hype, and keep the name in the headlines, whilst ATI are still rolling their thunder.



Whatever, though - it'll be interesting the closer it gets to release.  I'm definite that ATI will have something up their sleeve . . . the last few series releases have been executed remarkably from ATI, a "counter-attack" at near the same time nVidia makes a move.  I'm sure They have plans for a 5890, and/or a stockpiling of 5970s that they're going to drop on the market at the same time nVidia throw the GT300 series out . . . couple with ATI's typical price drops with new card releases, Fermi is going to have MAJOR competition across the board . . . and more than likely, ATI's 6000 series won't be more than a few months off at that point, either . . .


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 30, 2009)

they have been in turbulent waters since the G92.


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## TAViX (Dec 30, 2009)

Solaris17 said:


> no that would be stupid. a quatro is good if you need to do fast openGL or something. but in all honesty i dont even think their all that faster. its all a matter of perspective really i mean pixar may want the extra 2 hours it would take my 4GPU's to render it put them twords another frame. but imo 2 hours isnt worth an extra 4k. ill just get a BJ and skip down to the mall get some dunkins and another vid game. come back and it will be done.



Well I'm telling you, because I use Quadro at work and (used to use) my 4870X2 home, when comes to render in real-time, for example a CATIA/Solid Works assembly, the Quadro is more than 10 times faster. The same thing applies when working with big assemblies or complex surfaces models, the ATI just cannot take it.


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## imperialreign (Dec 30, 2009)

eidairaman1 said:


> they have been in turbulent waters since the G92.




Yeah - but not too many people were really willing to acknowledge it (much less nVidia).

S'all good.  Every couple of years the leader of this hardware market (not sales) shifts hands.  nVidia have maintained control for a couple of years, the time has been brewing for it to land back in ATI's hands for a couple of years.


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## Solaris17 (Dec 30, 2009)

TAViX said:


> Well I'm telling you, because I use Quadro at work and (used to use) my 4870X2 home, when comes to render in real-time, for example a CATIA/Solid Works assembly, the Quadro is more than 10 times faster. The same thing applies when working with big assemblies or complex surfaces models, the ATI just cannot take it.



......but u were comparing an ati card to an nvidia workstation card...

if you were to compair the desktop version vs its workstation = it will be better. but im saying it deff isnt worth the thousands.


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## PP Mguire (Dec 30, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> Did I say Fermi will be obsolete when it arrives ? No I said it would almost be obsolete because as you may know in the tech world it changes monthly.
> 
> Also you say my post is uneducated and misinformed ? I don't see how it is because I made an obvious statement, being that they were the only competitors in the DX11 market and that DX10/9 is a bigger market.
> 
> ...


DX11 card when it is released wont be obsolete and even if ATI manages to overclock a 5870 some more and call it a 5970 the GT300 will probably still whoop it. 

GTX260 is how old? And ATI is still trying to compete with that? Seems like Intel/AMD to me.



1Kurgan1 said:


> 1 game? Dirt 2, Battleforge, STALKER call of Pripyat? BF BC 2 beta is out in less than a month supporting DX11 also, and AVP is slated for Q1 2010 also DDO and LOTRO are both slated to be running DX11 in Q1 2010.
> 
> And no a GTX 285 is not a 2 year old GPU, (maybe its based off one but its still not 2 years old), if you mean the year old 285 keeps up with the budget top end 5850, thats exactly what was intended, to release a whole line of cards over $300 for all of them would be stupid.
> 
> ...


Yea 1 game. Dirt 2 is the ONLY game out right now that is DX11. Stalkers engine is old as the hills and only has a DX11 patch and that game as well as Bad Company 2 will be released around the time of Fermi IF its released around march. So....my point still remains.

Im talking about the G200 chip in general. We wont name rehashes like a 55nm counterpart. The GTX 280 is about 1.5 years old and with it i can get performance right under a 5870. 

And yea Nvidia isnt worried. They always come back with an ultimate GPU that completely dominates and it takes over a year for ATI to catch up. As i had said earlier, an overclocked version of a 5870 dubbed 5970 wont make much of a difference. If i was such a fanboy i would be using my 8800GS instead of a 4850 since my 280 died. So all im doing is basing facts with educated opinion on the matter. Being a reviewer i get more info than the general public where these things are concerned.

Im just tired of people bashing Nvidia for delaying and making sure the chip dosent have the faults it did when its released. Idk about yall, but i would rather Nvidia do what they normally do and take a while to make a badass chip then play EA and release buggy shit that people bitch about. Release a monster chip and make ATI play catchup for over a year


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## SNiiPE_DoGG (Dec 30, 2009)

Solaris17 said:


> ......but u were comparing an ati card to an nvidia workstation card...
> 
> if you were to compair the desktop version vs its workstation = it will be better. but im saying it deff isnt worth the thousands.



uh well yes the workstation cards are worth thousands. It's not for personal use its for business, and if you consider that the people rendering engineering assemblies in CAD or doing high budget CGI rendering are getting paid well over $100K per year to do their work - time rendering is paying the people to sit on their arses, and no business in their right mind would do that.


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## PP Mguire (Dec 30, 2009)

Workstation cards arent worth the cash. They are the same thing with a different firmware and more ram.


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## Mussels (Dec 30, 2009)

TAViX said:


> Well I'm telling you, because I use Quadro at work and (used to use) my 4870X2 home, when comes to render in real-time, for example a CATIA/Solid Works assembly, the Quadro is more than 10 times faster. The same thing applies when working with big assemblies or complex surfaces models, the ATI just cannot take it.



if you mod the drivers (or BIOS flash) cards between quadro and geforce, or radeon and fireGL - you get the performance boosts.

They deliberately cripple the gaming cards drivers, so that they can charge more for the workstation cards - often the hardware is exactly the same


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 30, 2009)

DrPepper said:


> Did I say Fermi will be obsolete when it arrives ? No I said it would almost be obsolete because as you may know in the tech world it changes monthly.
> 
> Also you say my post is uneducated and misinformed ? I don't see how it is because I made an obvious statement, being that they were the only competitors in the DX11 market and that DX10/9 is a bigger market.
> 
> ...



Example Look at what happened to Larrabee. Intel decided to cancel it due to the amt of rendering it couldn't do compared to ATIs 4800 series along with the 5000 series


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## TAViX (Dec 30, 2009)

PP Mguire said:


> Workstation cards arent worth the cash. They are the same thing with a different firmware and more ram.





Mussels said:


> if you mod the drivers (or BIOS flash) cards between quadro and geforce, or radeon and fireGL - you get the performance boosts.
> 
> They deliberately cripple the gaming cards drivers, so that they can charge more for the workstation cards - often the hardware is exactly the same



I have at work those cards, Quadro FX 4800 working in SLI, and check out this: 



			
				Tomshardware.com said:
			
		

> Transforming a gaming card like the GeForce GTX 280 into an equivalent workstation model is something that Nvidia quite naturally wants to forestall. Attempts to use workstation drivers in gaming cards by consumers just to see "if they work" are inevitable because the hardware is only minimally different. *Since Nvidia inserts special values into its video BIOSes to prevent dissimulation, such attempts are doomed to failure*.
> 
> 
> Technically, Nvidia offers significantly different drivers for its workstation cards as compared to gaming models. After the sale, Nvidia also offers significantly better product support for workstation models as well. *Higher prices for the Quadro models also commanded from a lower number of products sold, higher support costs, and a longer warranty period.* In return, buyers can expect swift responses when hardware defects are uncovered. In most cases an exchange will be made ASAP (in no more than 24 hours). Gaming card buyers, on the other hand, don't enjoy this level of service or support (but then, they don't pay for it, either).
> ...



http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/quadro-fx-4800,2258-10.html

So yes, I wont buy a professional card for gaming, but I would definitely buy one if I were running a CAD/CAM/CAE business or design/3D modeling office of some sort. The companies can afford those without any problems.


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## Mussels (Dec 30, 2009)

TAViX said:


> I have at work those cards, Quadro FX 4800 working in SLI, and check out this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



the same people said you cant run SLI on AMD boards, or old intel boards. people here at TPU hacked that a while back


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## crazyeyesreaper (Dec 30, 2009)

if i remember right its extremely easy to modify an ati 3850 to be a firegl / firestream whatever gpu a simply bios update to from the right model and a proper driver install and bingo have a few friends that work freelance one just finished a contract job with EA he needed to get some renders out and get a bit more oomph in his workstation so he flashed his cards did the job then changed them back  nvidias cards are harder to do that with but in general if u match the gpus up properly ati cards are easy to turn into workstation cards so the $2000 price tag is unneeded if u roll of your sleeves and dig a little never seen that trick used with nvidia gpus but i bet its possible

sorry my bad he used a 3850 not a 4870 that makes me wonder when can i use my 5850s as workstation gpus 

and i wonder if the same will be possible with nvidia gt300s

altho it should be said softmodding to a workstation card isnt always advisable things can go wrong alot of times


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## tastegw (Dec 30, 2009)

Nvidia, you lost a customer,  i tried to hold out as long as i could for the next gen cards of yours....just grabbed a 5850 today from newegg.....this should hold me atleast until the next generation.

sorry green, maybe next time.


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## RoutedScripter (Dec 30, 2009)

No surprises here ...


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## 1Kurgan1 (Dec 30, 2009)

PP Mguire said:


> DX11 card when it is released wont be obsolete and even if ATI manages to overclock a 5870 some more and call it a 5970 the GT300 will probably still whoop it.
> 
> GTX260 is how old? And ATI is still trying to compete with that? Seems like Intel/AMD to me.
> 
> ...



Seems you still forgot battleforge, and your counting an OC'd GTX 280 vs a 5870 stock.... Yes OCing is a good way to up performance, but you get what you pay for with a 5870, it overclocks much better than a 280, and OC vs OC obviously isn't much of a comparison, the 5870 is the better card, the GTX 280 is a great card, but its a cheaper card.

As far as NV coming back with the ultimate card, thats suppose to be how it works when each company schedules a release close to the others, it hasn't just been NV domination, for the last 2 generations the best bench cards were ATI cards for a long time, till the 285/295 landed. 

I'm not bashing NV for delaying anything, they need their time, then they need their time, better to get a good product out the door than a POS like the FX5500's. But I'm just saying you seriously expect a company that is a half a year behind their competition to release a card that will trounce the market? I mean thats just silly, new gens of cards come out almost every year, they are behind a half a cycle, thats a big gap. Just to get anything to the market for some competition would be great. And it doesn't matter, I do expect their top card to go toe to toe with the 5870, which is fantastic. The 5870 is more than enough to play anything out there and so would NV's equivalent. They don't need anymore than that, once they have their foot in the door with a powerful card (which I would assume wouldn't be the best since ATI has had it's sweet time) thats all they need. 

Thats all I'm saying, it does not make any sense for a company thats so late out of the gates to have the capability to release a chip that would put ATI a year back, ATI had a DX11 chip on the market before NV seemed to even begin working on one, I'm just speaking realistically here, you seem to be dreaming quite a bit.



Mussels said:


> the same people said you cant run SLI on AMD boards, or old intel boards. people here at TPU hacked that a while back



SLI on AM3? Links!


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## Mussels (Dec 30, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> SLI on AM3? Links!



http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=60844&page=101

page 101 - hope you like reading  (first post is out of date, check say.. page 90 onwards)


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## DrPepper (Dec 30, 2009)

PP Mguire said:


> DX11 card when it is released wont be obsolete and even if ATI manages to overclock a 5870 some more and call it a 5970 the GT300 will probably still whoop it.
> 
> GTX260 is how old? And ATI is still trying to compete with that? Seems like Intel/AMD to me.
> 
> ...



GT300 and RV5xx will be obsolete because there will be new designs on the table and being scheduled for release. Anyway your taking this way to personally it's a goddamn silicon chip made by a multimillion dollar company that doesn't need defending. If it owns then yay if it doesn't then it will go down as a failure because it was late and underperforming. For someone who says he is a reviewer your very biased which is worrying. Also the GTX280 is not right behind the 5870 in terms of performance, that statement is just wrong.


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## Mussels (Dec 30, 2009)

to back up Drpepper:







Yes, the 285 is the nearest card behind it. but with a 17% performance decrease... its not "on its heels" its just "the closest thing they have"

19% at a resolution more likely to find the card used on


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## DrPepper (Dec 30, 2009)

Mussels said:


> to back up Drpepper:
> 
> http://tpucdn.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/images/perfrel.gif
> 
> Yes, the 285 is the nearest card behind it. but with a 17% performance decrease... its not "on its heels" its just "the closest thing they have"



Thank you. I am not an ATi fan I am a performance fan. If I can get more fps for my money using VIA S3 I would. It so happens that the 4890 was cheaper than the GTX275 by £50 and that is a steal for the same performance.


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## 1Kurgan1 (Dec 30, 2009)

Mussels said:


> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=60844&page=101
> 
> page 101 - hope you like reading  (first post is out of date, check say.. page 90 onwards)



That thread seems to go only to page 51?



Mussels said:


> to back up Drpepper:
> 
> http://tpucdn.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/images/perfrel.gif
> 
> ...



Whats really sad is, the cheapest GTX 285 on the egg is right on the heels of a 5870's price, and the cheapest 5850 is almost $100 less than the GTX 285, yet it's a faster card... I usually buy what gets me the most for the least, like my gf's comp has a NV 9600GT cause I got a great deal on it, but when it comes to top end cards, the reasons for me to go ATI is pretty cut and dry. Just painful to see 285's prices still...


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## Mussels (Dec 30, 2009)

1Kurgan1 said:


> That thread seems to go only to page 51?


you must have changed default settings for length of pages or something.





1Kurgan1 said:


> Whats really sad is, the cheapest GTX 285 on the egg is right on the heels of a 5870's price, and the cheapest 5850 is almost $100 less than the GTX 285, yet it's a faster card... I usually buy what gets me the most for the least, like my gf's comp has a NV 9600GT cause I got a great deal on it, but when it comes to top end cards, the reasons for me to go ATI is pretty cut and dry. Just painful to see 285's prices still...



$100 more for 5% less performance, and DX10.0 vs 11

whats painful is the Nvidia fans who still insist the Nv cards are the better choice - they may have been once, but that time has passed for these cards unless their prices drop.


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## dan7777 (Dec 30, 2009)

tastegw said:


> Nvidia, you lost a customer,  i tried to hold out as long as i could for the next gen cards of yours....just grabbed a 5850 today from newegg.....this should hold me atleast until the next generation.
> 
> sorry green, maybe next time.


+1 ive just gone from NV to 5850 and its great apart from drivers being abit crappy compared to NV give me NV drivers anyday but im staying with amd for abit anyway.


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## Eva01Master (Dec 30, 2009)

I think NVidia's new GPU will be so overpowered than even if ATI launches a 5990 the very day GT300 hits the shelves, the Green team will still have the flagship in GPU power (As usual)


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## 1Kurgan1 (Dec 30, 2009)

Mussels said:


> you must have changed default settings for length of pages or something.
> 
> $100 more for 5% less performance, and DX10.0 vs 11
> 
> whats painful is the Nvidia fans who still insist the Nv cards are the better choice - they may have been once, but that time has passed for these cards unless their prices drop.



Yeah I changed my pages to be as long as possible, hated loading new pages. The only competitive prices NV card on the market (that isn't low end) seems to be the GTX 260, always has been a competitively priced card, but seems once NV starts looking at their top performance cards they could careless what the price is on the shelves.



Eva01Master said:


> I think NVidia's new GPU will be so overpowered than even if ATI launches a 5990 the very day GT300 hits the shelves, the Green team will still have the flagship in GPU power (As usual)



As usual? The 3870x2 and 4870x2 held the benching crowns for the better part of the last 2 years, got to take off the blind fold. Lets hope NV comes out with a competitive card, the 5800's could use a price drop, but I think your being a bit optimistic (more like very).


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## crazyeyesreaper (Dec 30, 2009)

i am under the impression that nvidia has heat issues i wont be surprised if we see cards overheating left and right unless they sound like a leaf blower on idle and typhoon when the fan spins up
either that or dare a say it a triple slot cooler


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## TAViX (Dec 30, 2009)

Mussels said:


> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=60844&page=101
> 
> page 101 - hope you like reading  (first post is out of date, check say.. page 90 onwards)



WAIT!!! Stupid n00b question comming: So if I have 2 nvidia 280 I cannot run them on SLI on my ASUS P5Q mobo, because the chipset is not an nvidia one??


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## Mussels (Dec 30, 2009)

TAViX said:


> WAIT!!! Stupid n00b question comming: So if I have 2 nvidia 280 I cannot run them on SLI on my ASUS P5Q mobo, because the chipset is not an nvidia one??



Nvidia requires you to have an nvidia motherboard to run SLI, with the exception of i5/i7 (because they have no motherboard chipsets there)

ATI/AMD allows crossfire to work on AMD chipsets and intel chipsets.


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## ToTTenTranz (Dec 30, 2009)

TAViX said:


> Not to mention that a 5770 in Crossfire is faster than any 58xx...



Not really, it's still slower than a HD5870. And it's on par with a HD5850 in most occasions.


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## TAViX (Dec 31, 2009)

Mussels said:


> $100 more for 5% less performance, and DX10.0 vs 11
> 
> whats painful is the Nvidia fans who still insist the Nv cards are the better choice - they may have been once, but that time has passed for these cards unless their prices drop.



Hehe, don't worry I can find in Japan, in some stores a 3850 at around 190$, hahaha. I think it depends on the store or something....

http://kakaku.com/item/05500415874/

Yen - Dolar conversion



ToTTenTranz said:


> Not really, it's still slower than a HD5870. And it's on par with a HD5850 in most occasions.



5770 Crossfire slower than 5870? Well, not really according to this:


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## SNiiPE_DoGG (Dec 31, 2009)

im not sure why you would use a dual card setup when the single card setup is _right_ behind it in performance... doesnt make a whole lot of sense


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## TAViX (Dec 31, 2009)

SNiiPE_DoGG said:


> im not sure why you would use a dual card setup when the single card setup is _right_ behind it in performance... doesnt make a whole lot of sense



It's simple. Because I already have 1 video card, and i can save 1 or 2 months, and buy another same card to further boost performance.

In other news, brightsideofnews.com shows some new details of the upcoming Fermi or GTX 3xx series:


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## Eva01Master (Dec 31, 2009)

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but what's the point on being pessimistic and dismiss the new releases believing the new NVidia architecture will be a fail? I can't even recall which was the last architectural fail in the Green Team (Actually I can, to me last failure was 7900GX2 which was corrected in part by 7950GX2) and BTW 4XXX X2 or whatever had nothing to do against the GTX295...


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## pr0n Inspector (Dec 31, 2009)

Eva01Master said:


> Maybe I'm being optimistic, but what's the point on being pessimistic and dismiss the new releases believing the new NVidia architecture will be a fail? I can't even recall which was the last architectural fail in the Green Team (Actually I can, to me last failure was 7900GX2 which was corrected in part by 7950GX2) and BTW 4XXX X2 or whatever had nothing to do against the GTX295...



Possibly because some people feel a need to justify their purchases to others and make themselves feel good by proving their choices are the best ones, whichever side they are on.


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## Hayder_Master (Dec 31, 2009)

bla bla bla , i win my word still no DX11 nvidia cards until 2010


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## TAViX (Dec 31, 2009)

Eva01Master said:


> Maybe I'm being optimistic, but what's the point on being pessimistic and dismiss the new releases believing the new NVidia architecture will be a fail? I can't even recall which was the last architectural fail in the Green Team (Actually I can, to me last failure was 7900GX2 which was corrected in part by 7950GX2) and BTW 4XXX X2 or whatever had nothing to do against the GTX295...



Well, actually that's the reason I don't buy (waste) another 5770 to CF, and I'm waiting 'till march to see the nvidia offerings. I hope the price will be right tho...


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## ToTTenTranz (Dec 31, 2009)

hayder.master said:


> bla bla bla , i win my word still no DX11 nvidia cards until *Q2* 2010



There, I fixed it for you. 
2010 doesn't sound that far away anymore, since it'll be in a few hours


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 1, 2010)

Eva01Master said:


> Maybe I'm being optimistic, but what's the point on being pessimistic and dismiss the new releases believing the new NVidia architecture will be a fail? I can't even recall which was the last architectural fail in the Green Team (Actually I can, to me last failure was 7900GX2 which was corrected in part by 7950GX2) and BTW 4XXX X2 or whatever had nothing to do against the GTX295...



9800GX2, Mobility Parts. 8800GTS G92


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## Eva01Master (Jan 1, 2010)

I had a 9800GX2 and it rocked my gaming rig until I sold it away. Can't say anything about 8800GTS, never had one, and G92 architecture have been reused heavily, but it's still great architecture. I wouldn't dismiss an overhauled '69 Mustang just because it's from 1969...


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 1, 2010)

If NVIDIA doesn't get rid of those ECC memory controllers on Fermi, it is going to be a crappy video card.  ECC is great for Tesla and horrible for GeForce...

I'll just say it: NVIDIA made a bad choice focusing on Tesla.  They are expecting to find a huge market but they are disowning an existing huge market in order to infiltrate another.  Because only corporations/governments looking to buy super computers would even look at Tesla, I think they overestimate how much money there is to be had in that segment.


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## ToTTenTranz (Jan 1, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> If NVIDIA doesn't get rid of those ECC memory controllers on Fermi, it is going to be a crappy video card.  ECC is great for Tesla and horrible for GeForce...
> 
> I'll just say it: NVIDIA made a bad choice focusing on Tesla.  They are expecting to find a huge market but they are disowning an existing huge market in order to infiltrate another.  Because only corporations/governments looking to buy super computers would even look at Tesla, I think they overestimate how much money there is to be had in that segment.





The graphics card market will be thrown into oblivion as soon as cloud computing is standardized..

That said, they know that pushing further into the server market will be the only way to "stay alive".


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## Fourstaff (Jan 1, 2010)

ToTTenTranz said:


> The graphics card market will be thrown into oblivion as soon as cloud computing is standardized..
> 
> That said, they know that pushing further into the server market will be the only way to "stay alive".



Cloud computing is still quite far away, and you would need a lot of bandwidth to pump all those pixels. I prefer to think that the line between the CPU and GPU is getting blurred, eg Intel trying to get into the GPU section through larabee (but failed), AMD got ATI and so in the best position, Nvidia realising that they need to migrate to the CPU side through Tesla.


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## Steevo (Jan 2, 2010)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121346

VS 


(/-\/-\/-\/-\/-\) Vapor



Mebey I should.



Cloud computing is more focused on small multi threaded jobs that can be reassembled out of order and with little impact on the rest of the job or the continuation of other parts of the job. Like folding at home, seti at home, climate computation etc....

Cloud computing will never have the bandwith, thread handling, or tasking available in the next few years to be a viable force to drive a real time 3D game. Look at DX11, it is a excesize to see how far we can take a single chip/AIB to compute multithreaded applications natively, and even with its huge bandwidth and power we still fail to fully use the core.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 3, 2010)

Seeing as Google Chrom OS got mostly frowns and it was to be the first cloud operating system, I'd say cloud computing won't see much use for at least another decade.  It really comes down to a simple fact: even the smallest of computers have more processing power than they do bandwidth.  Cloud computing, right now, would only work well in a gigabit+ network with servers hosting virtual machines and having client computers running of the LAN.  Even then, they are restricted to running simple applications like word processing, spreadsheets, and internet browsing.  We also can't forget that if you are looking to running multiple cloud computers, you are better off with multiple core CPUs and buying a cheap video card.  GPUs are pitiful at virtualization namely because they have limited access to the hard drives.

Fermi will be dead in 10 years (long replaced by something else).  Cloud computing won't see much use for 10 years.  Looks like a bad decision to me.


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## Mussels (Jan 3, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> It really comes down to a simple fact: even the smallest of computers have more processing power than they do bandwidth.



exactly my view. the other aspect to it all is the slow write speeds of HDD's, so even in a world with infinite (or 1-10Gb bandwidth), you need enough ram in the machine to fit whatever things you're streaming - and that leaves you with some severe limitations in the low power PC segment that this stuff is designed for


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 3, 2010)

RAM is more expensive per GiB than even SSDs are.  The whole idea, at this time, is ridiculous.

It is mostly Google and Intel pushing the idea of cloud computing.  Google wants your information and Intel wants corporations to buy the hardware because they have deeper pockets (8-way, 8-core Xeon platforms, anyone?).  There is little benefit here for the consumer.


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