# Soldering Guide Help



## eidairaman1 (Feb 11, 2020)

Here is a Pretty Good Video for soldering technique for THT and SMD.






























Disclaimer:
This is a guide and you are the person responsible for any improper soldering/damage, not anyone else.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Feb 11, 2020)

Thanks. Anyone that doesnt do a lot of soldering should watch it.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 11, 2020)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> Thanks. Anyone that doesnt do a lot of soldering should watch it.



It would help people who knocked off caps/resistors on their gpus...


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 11, 2020)

It is  not a good video. It is not done like that anymore... like student level. You need a preheater under and sum up the energy in order not to damage the part an PCB, often you will not be able to heat up the part off the multi layer PCB due to thick copper layer, you will burn the upper PCB black but the solder will not melt. Especially like for ones that knocked a cap off the PCB. 

SMD parts are put on using air gun and prehater... that's the most harmless way for the part and PCB. Soldering gun more for robust through hole devices. They have longer legs and don't heat up the semiconductor core damaging it.

With method like soldering all the pins together in many cases PCB traces will pop off and permanently damage the board. Plain isopropanol cannot be used for cleaning semiconductors as it was held in aluminum barrels thus it has metal ions, as a result the MCU will soak it and start to hang up often. Those things are bitten through like 20 years ago.

Also guys and galls... doing much SMD soldering without a microscope or at least some magnifying glass will instantly put you on prescription glasses queue.


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## delshay (Feb 11, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> It is  not a good video. It is not done like that anymore... like student level. You need a preheater under and sum up the energy in order not to damage the part an PCB, often you will not be able to heat up the part off the multi layer PCB due to thick copper layer, you will burn the upper PCB black but the solder will not melt. Especially like for ones that knocked a cap off the PCB.
> 
> SMD parts are put on using air gun and prehater... that's the most harmless way for the part and PCB. Soldering gun more for robust through hole devices. They have longer legs and don't heat up the semiconductor core damaging it.
> 
> ...



Spot on what you are saying, iv been soldering most of my life & I have not stopped to this very day. When dealing with SMD components you have to shield sensitive components otherwise it could get damaged.


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 11, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> It is not a good video. It is not done like that anymore... like student level.


I disagree and believe it is a good video - especially for small shops and the home enthusiasts. As for the student level comment, well, I feel that is just nonsense, if not offensive. That video was not geared to a professional tech who assembles and populates and/or repairs PCBs all day long for a living.



delshay said:


> When dealing with SMD components you have the shield sensitive components otherwise it could get damaged.


 So because the 11 *minute* video did not address shielding nearby components, it is bad video? 

When I used to maintain USAF air traffic control radio communications systems, me and another tech were fortunate enough to be sent to a PACE Training Center to learn "Micro Miniature Soldering Techniques" using a PACE soldering station. This was a 60 *hour* course! Many of the techniques shown in that video were exactly what we were taught in that 60 hour course. No way everything we learned could be jammed into a tiny 11 minute video.



DeathtoGnomes said:


> Anyone that doesnt do a lot of soldering should watch it.


That soldering techniques course I took probably consisted of about ~16 hours of actual classroom instruction on the various soldering techniques, temperature requirements, heat sinking and shielding, types of solder, etc. The remaining hours were spent practicing, practicing and then practicing some more - before assembling our final project for critical analysis, operation and certification.

And for the record, speed was one of the criteria used during the certification process - and that was NOT for increased productivity. It was because lingering around for too long while applying heat can damage surrounding components. My point being, with practice, shielding is not needed except for very densely populated boards - which were NOT used in that very fine video.

So for anyone who wishes to do his or her own soldering, I recommend get some old circuit boards and practice your soldering, desoldering, mounting and unmounting techniques before working on the final product. And this practice recommendation applies to experienced experts too. Soldering is a skill that must be hone and maintained.


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## sneekypeet (Feb 11, 2020)

Moved thread to Cases, Modding, & Electronics. Unstuck old solder guide with dead image links, moved this into its place.


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 11, 2020)

@Bill_Bright

Because of such low quality videos people damage their equipment while attempting to do repairs. Got their warranties rejected, money and time lost.

This video is student level. It will matter for those who attempt to make some diy piece of tech. Trial and error, a bit like this is lowest level and expired.

Doing repairs, like knocked off cap? They will damage the board and part. It must be used with caution.


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## sneekypeet (Feb 11, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> @Bill_Bright
> 
> Because of such low quality videos people damage their equipment while attempting to do repairs. Got their warranties rejected, money and time lost.
> 
> ...



I would then say, stop arguing with Bill, find us a better video, or make a tutorial of your own. 
Many who would attempt such things and need help, need rudimentary steps to get the hang of things, and will evolve as bill stated. Also with that group are those that are likely out of warranty either by time or the fact they physically broke the bit they are repairing.


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 11, 2020)

sneekypeet said:


> I would then say, stop arguing with Bill, find us a better video, or make a tutorial of your own.
> Many who would attempt such things and need help, need rudimentary steps to get the hang of things, and will evolve as bill stated. Also with that group are those that are likely out of warranty either by time or the fact they physically broke the bit they are repairing.



I would say - ask for professional help.

You don't do fix your toothache by itself too? Or still a dentist is an option? Prolly you can find videos also for that.

Such things cause more harm than good when given to masses. That is my point.

Father asks his son, why on earth you did broke the board? But daddy I saw it on TPU, they said it is okay.... sigh...


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## sneekypeet (Feb 11, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> I would say - ask for professional help.
> 
> You don't do fix your toothache by itself too? Or still a dentist is an option? Prolly you can find videos also for that.
> 
> ...



You are taking this way too far. Users are trying to help others here, it is as simple as that. At this point, it seems you just came in to argue with off tangent comments. I assume you spend all day on YouTube commenting on all the videos that could potentially cause harm too?


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## delshay (Feb 11, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> I disagree and believe it is a good video - especially for small shops and the home enthusiasts. As for the student level comment, well, I feel that is just nonsense, if not offensive. That video was not geared to a professional tech who assembles and populates and/or repairs PCBs all day long for a living.
> 
> So because the 11 *minute* video did not address shielding nearby components, it is bad video?



If your going to break something during soldering then yes. Some IC are very expensive, plus some are very hard or impossible to get hold of.

When I changed the capacitors on my R9 Nano here on TechPowerup a lot of shielding went into protecting the GPU core.

One thing that's different here to most users here is, I use a microprocessor digital control dispenser for my solder paste. Manual (foot pedal) or fully automated (programmable). So I can solder-in BGA device with no solder balls (not  recommended) but i did it to test my soldering  skill.


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 11, 2020)

sneekypeet said:


> You are taking this way too far. Users are trying to help others here, it is as simple as that. At this point, it seems you just came in to argue with off tangent comments. I assume you spend all day on YouTube commenting on all the videos that could potentially cause harm too?



I don't comment youtube at all.. I don't consume low quality material. If I see endorsement for such things here it just amuses me and make me sad.

Such things as soldering need proper scholarship, not a youtube video. You must attend some sort of real courses with a teacher and equipment and play on with things, there are electronics circles everywhere around the world, use them. Not doing the stuff from first time and damage it even more as it usually ends up. It ain't that simple. It ain't fixing a broken power cord. We are talking about high tech SMD part soldering... not some plain simple through hole one layer PCB. Things have changed in the last 10 years very fast due to rapid tech development. Home repairs are not a reasonable thing to recommend to someone.


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 11, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> This video is student level. It will matter for those who attempt to make some diy piece of tech. Trial and error, a bit like this is lowest level and expired.
> 
> Doing repairs, like knocked off cap? They will damage the board and part. It must be used with caution.


I agree with sneekypeet. 


sneekypeet said:


> You are taking this way too far.


Who are tutorial videos for but someone seeking to learn (AKA, a student)? And for the record, I've spent a couple hundred hours in classrooms as a student years into my career after I got my electronics degrees and certs. I have gone "back" to school dozens of times for refresher courses AND to learn new technologies. There is NOTHING wrong with being a student. 

Something I feel both you and delshay have overlooked or just ignored is where both me and that video author emphasized multiple times to practice! 


delshay said:


> When I changed the capacitors on my R9 Nano here on TechPowerup a lot of shielding went into protecting the GPU core.


Okay. So? That's just anecdotal. Your sample size of one experience with one card does not render the whole point moot, nor does it suggest the information presented in that video is bad, or not useful for everyone for every project. Nor does it even suggest you would have damaged the GPU core had you not used shielding. I would pose with practice, you could have done the repairs and not caused collateral damage. 


Ferrum Master said:


> Such things as soldering need proper scholarship, not a youtube video. You must attend some sort of real courses with a teacher and equipment and play on with things, there are electronics circles everywhere around the world, use them.


Oh, bullfeathers! That's just silly and totally impractical for many - and I say that as a formally trained, educated, and "certified master electronics technician" (see the link in my sig)! And it took me over 2 years of formal classroom and "on-the-job" follow-on training and certification evaluations before I could even think of calling myself that. But some of the best technicians (and auto-mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, etc.) I know are totally self-taught.


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 11, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> know are totally self-taught.



You are missing the point. This video is not aimed at first timers doing repairs. It does more harm than good, as the content is done with bad and wrong techniques. You cannot apply them them repairing modern tech. It works only for basic level DIY PCB, where you have nothing to loose.


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 11, 2020)

No, I have not missed the point. As SP noted, it is you who have taken this way too far. Nobody suggested that video was for first timers, nor for full time professionals either. But you seem to think it should cover every aspect of electronics soldering in 11 minutes and since it doesn't, it is bad and wrong, and will do more harm than good, and suggest only formally trained people with the latest soldering equipment can solder correctly.


Have a good day.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 11, 2020)

I just watched that video and didn't see any problems in particular. Going to have to agree with @eidairaman1 and @Bill_Bright. This is an excellent instructional video on soldering for beginners. The comments bemoaning same are without purpose or aim and just seem to be trolling to pick a fight.


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 11, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> Have a good day.



From the same point, we have tons of people who always do not save their VGA BIOS and the same OP usually helps those buggers out... there are loads of them.

Why? Because some buggers told it is piece of cake somewhere on youtube etc, and some always mess up, and that's only with software.

I work in still in electronics business for nearly 20 years, warranty and out warranty cases with failed repair attempts are often a amusing sight, especially the shame as in the process it ended up making the device totally dead. Do we really need that and endorse it even more?


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## silentbogo (Feb 11, 2020)

I'll have to side with @Ferrum Master on this one - the video is a good example of soldering "bad habits".
First of all, you don't jam a soldering iron into the bent lead, you heat up the pad until the solder "flows" around the lead. That's the best way to get some cold joints or half-assed joints.
Second of all, using cheap rework station *MUST* include disclaimers, such as:
1) Cheap chinese hot air stations must be calibrated
2) This is super-important: you should always pre-heat the hot air station until temps stabilize on the output. As soon as you have a slight drop and nichrome heater kicks in, your temps will rise from 280C to 400+C at the exhaust. This is why you don't do hot air rework by pointing the tip 1cm away from the target component, otherwise you'll burn everything as soon as heater tries to compensate.
3) If you have sensitive components, or if you work with lead-free solder, or if you do BGA rework, it's a good idea to invest into a pre-heater. The cheapest one is like $30. Not critical, but it makes your life much easier.



sneekypeet said:


> I would then say, stop arguing with Bill, find us a better video, or make a tutorial of your own.


Just check out Dave Jones on YT. While I don't always agree with the dude, he did a nice set of tutorials awhile back.
*Soldering Playlist*
Also, there are lots of re-posts of old tech training videos with proper soldering techniques.



Ferrum Master said:


> Such things cause more harm than good when given to masses. That is my point.


@Ferrum Master , at least it's not one of our local DIY miracles, where dudes are poking into 0603 caps with finger-thick soviet soldering iron, and use solid pine rosin as flux.
I'm getting infuriated, when I need to clean up that shit after some basement-scientist decides once again that any electronic fault can be fixed by re-capping or reflow.


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 11, 2020)

silentbogo said:


> finger-thick soviet soldering iron, and use solid pine rosin as flux



I call those - soldering gun for buckets. I've used those only back in the day repairing old TV sets.


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## delshay (Feb 11, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> You are missing the point. This video is not aimed at first timers doing repairs. It does more harm than good, as the content is done with bad and wrong techniques. You cannot apply them them repairing modern tech. It works only for basic level DIY PCB, where you have nothing to loose.



Thank you.

Video title "how to solder "properly" 

If you break something like in the video, then that's not soldering properly.


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## Ahhzz (Feb 11, 2020)

Definitely at least two sides to the discussion, which is fine and encouraged. Name calling and trolling, not so much. Make your points, agree to change your mind, or to disagree, and let it go without attacks. Thanks!


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## trickson (Feb 11, 2020)

I do TONS of soldering and this is great thanks! 
Always looking for new cool ways to do things.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 11, 2020)

Ahhzz said:


> Definitely at least two sides to the discussion, which is fine and encouraged. Name calling and trolling, not so much. Make your points, agree to change your mind, or to disagree, and let it go without attacks. Thanks!


I have to agree 100%. 

People, this is a help thread and the negativity is needless. If us users want to offer alternate methodologies for soldering, thats one thing.


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## trickson (Feb 11, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> I have to agree 100%.
> 
> People, this is a help thread and the negativity is needless. If us users want to offer alternate methodologies for soldering, thats one thing.


 This is a GREAT must see video! I literally watched the entire thing this guy is AMAZING wished I could solder that good my old ass hands shake like a paint mixer!


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 11, 2020)

@Ferrum Master, the video portion showing Solder paste was sweet, never knew it existed myself.

As I said it's beneficial for GPUs



Ferrum Master said:


> It is  not a good video. It is not done like that anymore... like student level. You need a preheater under and sum up the energy in order not to damage the part an PCB, often you will not be able to heat up the part off the multi layer PCB due to thick copper layer, you will burn the upper PCB black but the solder will not melt. Especially like for ones that knocked a cap off the PCB.
> 
> SMD parts are put on using air gun and prehater... that's the most harmless way for the part and PCB. Soldering gun more for robust through hole devices. They have longer legs and don't heat up the semiconductor core damaging it.
> 
> ...



Did you watch the entire video? He covers that.



lexluthermiester said:


> I have to agree 100%.
> 
> People, this is a help thread and the negativity is needless. If us users want to offer alternate methodologies for soldering, thats one thing.



I agree, TPU community, either add Soldering tips or,  just step away from the keyboard.



Ferrum Master said:


> I don't comment youtube at all.. I don't consume low quality material. If I see endorsement for such things here it just amuses me and make me sad.
> 
> Such things as soldering need proper scholarship, not a youtube video. You must attend some sort of real courses with a teacher and equipment and play on with things, there are electronics circles everywhere around the world, use them. Not doing the stuff from first time and damage it even more as it usually ends up. It ain't that simple. It ain't fixing a broken power cord. We are talking about high tech SMD part soldering... not some plain simple through hole one layer PCB. Things have changed in the last 10 years very fast due to rapid tech development. Home repairs are not a reasonable thing to recommend to someone.



Scholarship really?


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 11, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Scholarship really?



More like a drivers license... As I said, I have nothing about repairing a domestic simple thing. You need to attend basic courses, where you know the consequences if you want to do more. It is like giving a grenade to monkey often.

But an advanced SMD repair... GPU? Nuts... this video shows nothing, but bad for it. This one is a specialized case about soldering home brew thin DIY project PCB. Yeah, then do what you wish... it is tech level around 1980 ties incliding the Atmega MCU, still a intel 8051 core in the heart, so the 80ties indeed... is good for a starter? Also no.

It is 2020, acting around the board with a wick and poking elements with a hot soldering gun raised my eyebrows too much. It is a bad example really.


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## delshay (Feb 11, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> More like a drivers license... As I said, I have nothing about repairing a domestic simple thing. You need to attend basic courses, where you know the consequences if you want to do more. It is like giving a grenade to monkey often.
> 
> But an advanced SMD repair... GPU? Nuts... this video shows nothing, but bad for it. This one is a specialized case about soldering home brew thin DIY project PCB. Yeah, then do what you wish... it is tech level around 1980 ties incliding the Atmega MCU, still a intel 8051 core in the heart, so the 80ties indeed... is good for a starter? Also no.
> 
> It is 2020, acting around the board with a wick and poking elements with a hot soldering gun raised my eyebrows too much. It is a bad example really.



I use a full infrared BGA workstation.  I will upload photo of all my soldering tips soon. I have around 20 different type of soldering tips which I can change on-a-fly. Must use the correct soldering tip for the right task. So I'm always swapping soldering tips, but a photo will show a rack of many types of soldering tips.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Feb 12, 2020)

delshay said:


> I use a full infrared BGA workstation.  I will upload photo of all my soldering tips soon. I have around 20 different type of soldering tips which I can change on-a-fly. Must use the correct soldering tip for the right task. So I'm always swapping soldering tips, but a photo will show a rack of many types of soldering tips.


sounds like you can prolly make tutorial just for what solder  tips to use.


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## C1ff0 (Feb 12, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Here is a Pretty Good Video for soldering technique for THT and SMD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've already seen al of them, as a hobbyst, they work for me. another video that i have find usefull, for sdm work it's from the madmad Ben Heck.


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## silentbogo (Feb 12, 2020)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> sounds like you can prolly make tutorial just for what solder tips to use.


There are those on the net as well   
I have around 20 hakko tips as well, plus a spare 6-pack of needle-point tips. I think I'm set for the next decade or so, cause so far I only needed to replace one needle-point (and only cause I f'ed up with upkeep).


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## delshay (Feb 12, 2020)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> sounds like you can prolly make tutorial just for what solder  tips to use.



Getting my camera out, give me 15 mins to upload photo(s).

EDIT: A couple of tips are the same but this should give you an idea of how many soldering tips I have. Most are new & some are missing from the list. Close-up photo to follow so you can see the part number.  ..cancelled you can see the part number by zooming in.

Update: These are 24v soldering tips with the heating element built-in, so you can't break this soldering iron. With these set of tips along with the others missing from the photo, I can do anything I want. I have a box full of spare soldering tips.


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## C1ff0 (Feb 12, 2020)

delshay said:


> I use a full infrared BGA workstation.  I will upload photo of all my soldering tips soon. I have around 20 different type of soldering tips which I can change on-a-fly. Must use the correct soldering tip for the right task. So I'm always swapping soldering tips, but a photo will show a rack of many types of soldering tips.



I'm a bit envious......   I really need to upgrade my workbench.....


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## Frick (Feb 12, 2020)

Watched some of it and I definitely agree that there's some bad stuff there. But I've also seen worse. It ain't "proper soldering" though. Decent for a hobbyist.



Ferrum Master said:


> Such things as soldering need proper scholarship, not a youtube video. You must attend some sort of real courses with a teacher and equipment and play on with things, there are electronics circles everywhere around the world, use them. Not doing the stuff from first time and damage it even more as it usually ends up. It ain't that simple. It ain't fixing a broken power cord. We are talking about high tech SMD part soldering... not some plain simple through hole one layer PCB. Things have changed in the last 10 years very fast due to rapid tech development. Home repairs are not a reasonable thing to recommend to someone.



I would say it depends on the goal. I do messy soldering, but it's for myself and it works. Some stuff I'm decent at but generally not PCB work (mostly because of lack of tools and patience) but I'm getting better. You can mess around with stuff at home (old NICs are great for that) just to see how different things behave in different circumstances. You need the basics of course, and proper courses helps there (the IPC cert course I did was hugefully helpful at the time) but you most of all need patience and experience. And the basics can definitely be aquired online.

but all this is assuming the individual has basic electronics knowledge and know how heat and conductors work. Also bad habits are bad habits and should be shunned even on a hobbyist level, but a part of me will always have a soft spot for pure, ugly DIY.


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## delshay (Feb 12, 2020)

C1ff0 said:


> I'm a bit envious......   I really need to upgrade my workbench.....



Yes, but I still need external soldering iron to repair the workstation when it breaks down. So I have a external soldering unit that share the same soldering tips as the workstation. So effectively I have two soldering irons, one stationary & the other portable.


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## DR4G00N (Feb 12, 2020)

Frick said:


> but a part of me will always have a soft spot for pure, ugly DIY.


What, like this genuine masterpiece right here?


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## trickson (Feb 12, 2020)

DR4G00N said:


> What, like this genuine masterpiece right here?
> 
> View attachment 144631


PERFECT!


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## delshay (Feb 12, 2020)

DR4G00N said:


> What, like this genuine masterpiece right here?
> 
> View attachment 144631



There's only one person that I know of that do something like this. The best part is the tub in the top right hand corner that say's "danger"


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## trickson (Feb 12, 2020)

delshay said:


> There's only one person that I know of that do something like this. The best part is the tub in the top right hand corner that say's "danger"


  

This is an EPIC pic! AMAZING! I LOVE IT! THAT can with Danger Flammable / Irritant! WTF!!! And it's as close to that electrical PCB board as humanly possible! AND to top that there is an Allen- wrench that the PCB board is resting ON!
PERFECT!


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## DR4G00N (Feb 12, 2020)

trickson said:


> This is an EPIC pic! AMAZING! I LOVE IT! THAT can with Danger Flammable / Irritant! WTF!!! And it's as close to that electrical PCB board as humanly possible! AND to top that there is an Allen- wrench that the PCB board is resting ON!
> PERFECT!


It's just the camera perspective, it's not actually anywhere near the stuff in the background. Besides I move those bottles well away when doing anything with high temp.


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## trickson (Feb 12, 2020)

DR4G00N said:


> It's just the camera perspective, it's not actually anywhere near the stuff in the background. Besides I move those bottles well away when doing anything with high temp.


Whatever you need to tell yourself, YOU ARE THE MAN! YES!!!  

You don't have to convince me, But the Fire martial is another issue.


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## silentbogo (Feb 12, 2020)

delshay said:


> Update: These are 24v soldering tips with the heating element built-in, so you can't break this soldering iron.


Is that for T12 handle? If yes, tell me if it's any good...
Just thinking about buying a spare iron for home projects. Bouncing between small T12 kit and one of those TS100 portables.


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## delshay (Feb 12, 2020)

silentbogo said:


> Is that for T12 handle? If yes, tell me if it's any good...
> Just thinking about buying a spare iron for home projects. Bouncing between small T12 kit and one of those TS100 portables.



I'm not familiar with that part number but it looks compatible. But double check before you buy.

I have Aoyue BGA 9000A workstation & a seperate iron Aoyue int2900, both share/use the same type of tips. As I said in this thread, I only use the int2900 to repair the workstation when it breaks down.

int2900 can be seen here https://www.aoyue.eu/aoyue-int2900-...ring-station-smd-soldering-iron-wq-serie.html


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## silentbogo (Feb 12, 2020)

delshay said:


> I'm not familiar with that part number but it looks compatible. But double check before you buy.


It's just a reference to whichever Hakko pencil they've cloned. Chinese are keeping things simple, so it's usually Hakko T12, or Hakko 907 knock-offs. The only exception is inductive stations. 
TS100 is a tiny portable soldering pen with wide-input (12-24V), and can be powered from anything, like a power bank w/ adjustable output, car lighter socket, ASUS laptop power brick, LED strip PSU etc.
Lots of positive reviews as well, the only problem is that it uses some sort of modified version of T12 tips and they cost a fortune($5-$12 apiece, depending on quality). I'm eyeing a kit w/ 7 tips for $80 shipped, but I'm not sure if those heating elements aren't crap.


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## bobbybluz (Feb 12, 2020)

My father built his own ham radio and audio equipment plus repaired TV's in the 1950's. I learned to solder when I was around 5 years old and learned well enough to do military circuit boards and drive controllers for ships and submarines years later. Every solder joint must look exactly like the specification picture. About 10 years ago I bought one of these cheapo soldering stations off Ebay and was very surprised just how well it works. It still works perfectly today, can't be beat for the price. Make sure to also get the 4-piece replacement tip set for added versatility. https://www.parts-express.com/stahl...e-temperature-soldering-iron-station--374-100


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 13, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Here is a Pretty Good Video for soldering technique for THT and SMD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here is another good Video


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## delshay (Feb 13, 2020)

silentbogo said:


> It's just a reference to whichever Hakko pencil they've cloned. Chinese are keeping things simple, so it's usually Hakko T12, or Hakko 907 knock-offs. The only exception is inductive stations.
> TS100 is a tiny portable soldering pen with wide-input (12-24V), and can be powered from anything, like a power bank w/ adjustable output, car lighter socket, ASUS laptop power brick, LED strip PSU etc.
> Lots of positive reviews as well, the only problem is that it uses some sort of modified version of T12 tips and they cost a fortune($5-$12 apiece, depending on quality). I'm eyeing a kit w/ 7 tips for $80 shipped, but I'm not sure if those heating elements aren't crap.



With a assortment of various tip you can do some interesting hacks. It was the blade type tip that allowed me to be the first to soldered heatsinks directly to the MOSFETS. You can remove & replace MOSFETS just with the soldering iron, but this requires very high level of skill. You will learn very quickly what you can do very fast.

You can do all sorts of modifications. It's these tools I was able to change power output "in hardware" on my motherboard & R9 Nano.

I buy my tips separately, normally in twos or threes of the same type as you need spares. The tiny 0.1 tip I have more of this as this is what I use to solder-in SMT component including IC, so I have around 5 as you can break the tiny tip if you press to hard & they do go blunt over time.

I recommend never to push the temperature to the max 480c, but just below 470c, but you should never need to go this high, 440c-450c is all I need for the toughest job.

IF you have all the tips, nothing will stand in your way & there are more different types of tips out there.


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## Vario (Feb 13, 2020)

I used these ancient videos to learn some basic techniques but due to neurological stuff my hands shake a lot so I don't solder often.


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## delshay (Feb 13, 2020)

Just another heads-up.

I have completely abandoned all solder that's on a reel. All my solder is from a tub, ie solder paste. You can control the amount of solder you want on the pad better. Melting point of my solder is around 180c.

Solder paste is kept in a tiny fridge which can hold around 8  normal size can of drink.



Vario said:


> I used these ancient videos to learn some basic techniques but due to neurological stuff my hands shake a lot so I don't solder often.



Great video that's what I call proper soldering. Funny Alpha is the flux I use, very expensive, but i have others.

EDIT: One other thing, I have a motorize wire brush for cleaning the soldering tips.


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## Frick (Feb 13, 2020)

delshay said:


> Just another heads-up.
> 
> I have completely abandoned all solder that's on a reel. All my solder is from a tub, ie solder paste. You can control the amount of solder you want on the pad better. Melting point of my solder is around 180c.



Would like to try at some point, but the old lead solder is universally found and I have heaps of it and solder paste cost a lot more anyway. How long does it last unopened/opened? I have looked at some and they generally say they don't last long. Is that why the fridge?


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 13, 2020)

Frick said:


> Would like to try at some point, but the old lead solder is universally found and I have heaps of it and solder paste cost a lot more anyway. How long does it last unopened/opened? I have looked at some and they generally say they don't last long. Is that why the fridge?



In general 6-12 months officially. On practice few years, depending on the packaging quality. Problem with those, many flux/compounds itself are not approved for anymore. It is internally proven to be aggressive, conductive, corrosive and not ESD safe. There is nothing much to do about it if your work under the manufacturers and he dictates the standards, as from the assembly line and further RMA experience they deduced it causes problems, the information often is closed under NDA. We only store few glues and rubber gap fillers in the fridge.

I adore these warnings. Those MAYs.


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## Frick (Feb 13, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> In general 6-12 months officially. On practice few years, depending on the packaging quality. Problem with those, many flux/compounds itself are not approved for anymore. It is internally proven to be aggressive, conductive, corrosive and not ESD safe. There is nothing much to do about it if your work under the manufacturers and he dictates the standards, as from the assembly line and further RMA experience they deduced it causes problems, the information often is closed under NDA. We only store few glues and rubber gap fillers in the fridge.
> 
> I adore these warnings. Those MAYs.
> 
> View attachment 144729



With solder paste you mean? I knew lead free solder is not as good (don't forget the whiskers!) but I know next to nothing about solder paste.


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 13, 2020)

Frick said:


> With solder paste you mean? I knew lead free solder is not as good (don't forget the whiskers!) but I know next to nothing about solder paste.



That paste also has flux mixture in it, there are 3 types of it, from that depends that the shelf life, prone to evaporation etc, new ones ain't anymore, no need for the fridge. I haven't met anyone really using it much. It is more easy to use hot plate and instantly solder everything on. Cleaning that paste often could end up as a pain in the arse, soaking up with shady solvents sensitive parts etc... it has drawbacks. Just as everything.

Lead free ain't that bad. It has higher melting point, it behaves bad with corrosive damage, it simply rots away versus the older lead based. But other than that... no real differences if you solder a fresh project... When doing repairs, that's a different story, actually the practice is adding lead solder to drop melting point and do less damage.

For special items... there are some super heat sensitive fragile parts, mostly RF transmitter department, for those we have low melting point solder, Bismuth/Indium.


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## delshay (Feb 13, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> In general 6-12 months officially. On practice few years, depending on the packaging quality. Problem with those, many flux/compounds itself are not approved for anymore. It is internally proven to be aggressive, conductive, corrosive and not ESD safe. There is nothing much to do about it if your work under the manufacturers and he dictates the standards, as from the assembly line and further RMA experience they deduced it causes problems, the information often is closed under NDA. We only store few glues and rubber gap fillers in the fridge.
> 
> I adore these warnings. Those MAYs.
> 
> View attachment 144729



If I was to replace my current solder paste I would buy something like this https://uk.farnell.com/multicore-loctite/2006905-m/solder-paste-62-36-2-179-deg-500g/dp/5091111?st=solder paste

I use lower melting point solder as I have infrared workstation. I don't want to disturb other components like PCI slots. That's the only reason why I choose lower melting point solder. All of the solder paste I buy has an expiry date on it. Zoom in on the photo of item in link, you can see the use by date (example).


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## Ferrum Master (Feb 13, 2020)

delshay said:


> I use lower melting point solder as I have infrared workstation



It depends on what you solder, for planar parts, no BGA involved. Also risk of cold joints as the melting point is way to low and the metal diffusion for some reasons doesn't happen good(nitrogen must be used), xray then needed also, etc etc. People often use some china powders, made from who knows, there we know about Chinese electronics quality problems, the root cause is actually there, the perception of things. You cannot gimp it here much anymore.

More modern is GC10, it does not need refrigeration.

It is another specific case for each of us, but it doesn't really concern starters. It is mass production mode already.


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## delshay (Feb 13, 2020)

Ferrum Master said:


> More modern is GC10, it does not need refrigeration.
> 
> It is another specific case for each of us, but it doesn't really concern starters. It is mass production mode already.



GC10? interesting never looked into that. It will be on my shopping list in next bulk buy.

EDIT: I do have very cheap solder paste from EBAY. This paste is used for experimental projects. It does not need to be perfect, it just needs to work. I only use my best paste when project is complete & transferred to main PCB.


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## Vario (Feb 13, 2020)

delshay said:


> Great video that's what I call proper soldering. Funny Alpha is the flux I use, very expensive, but i have others.


Yes they have a ton of these PACE training videos this was the first in the series.  Some are antique but pretty helpful.








						paceworldwide
					

For over forty years, PACE, Inc. has provided state-of-the-art, hands-on solder training to the electronics industry around the world. Courses and support ma...




					www.youtube.com
				











						Basic Soldering Lessons 1 - 9
					

These 9 videos will educate you on the basic soldering knowledge and practices used today.




					www.youtube.com


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 13, 2020)

Yet another


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## delshay (Feb 13, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Yet another



I still have my Amiga 1200 motherboard, but I modded it many years ago & should still be working. I removed all the IC & fitted sockets.
So my A1200 motherboard is unique & different to any other A1200 motherboard. It can be repaired in 60 seconds or less if any of the IC goes faulty.

If i get request, i will dig it out & post photo.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 13, 2020)

delshay said:


> If i get request, i will dig it out & post photo.


If it's not to much trouble..


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## delshay (Feb 13, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> If it's not to much trouble..



Sorry have to scrap that, too much stuff in the way, also I just remembered the CPU & memory are not socketed, everything else should be socketed thou.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 13, 2020)

delshay said:


> Sorry have to scrap that, too much stuff in the way, also I just remembered the CPU & memory are not socketed, everything else should be socketed thou.


Fair enough. That is a very involved process and requires either a ton of time or skillful soldering work.


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## Frick (Nov 25, 2020)

I just orderes a hot air station, the ubiquitous 858D, brand name of Kaisi, for aboot €35. @silentbogo, any tips for it? Or you other people who knows everything.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 25, 2020)

Well, I certainly would not pretend to know everything. In fact, after 45+ years as an electronics tech, the one constant I have learned is that the more I learn, the more I realize there is _yet_ to learn!  But I do have a what I consider to be a very good pro tip. 

We must remember that soldering, whether using a gun, pencil iron, air soldering station, or butane torch (or a desoldering iron too), these tasks are all skills. And like virtually all skills, they require lots of practice and honing to become proficient at them. So my advice is to find yourself an old motherboard, graphics card, sound card, modem, router - something with a decent size populated PCB that you are willing to sacrifice, and practice, practice, practice before trying your hand on any board you have or are going to put into service.


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## silentbogo (Nov 25, 2020)

Oh... that's a bit of a mixed bag of beans... Pretty much the same thing as my very first Baku 858D, and while it lasted, it was still kinda crappy.
There are few things you need to remember:
1) If you have an opportunity - callibrate it as soon as you can. If you have a multimeter with thermocouple - use it. Preferably use K-type with a naked junction, not enclosed in metal pipe. Without calibration it may act funky, like burning PCBs to crisp, or not handling even basic lead-free SMD rework. Stick a TK into a nozzle, and use a tiny screwdriver in a CAL hole on the front panel to adjust temperature sensing.
2) Don't ever leave it running for a long time. Hot air wand tends to overheat, which kills the heating element faster and may occasionally melt wires and casing. 20-minute sessions at 300-350C is probably the safest limit, which is still more than enough for most work.
3) Do not use it for BGA rework!!!! Energy output of this thing is a lot lower than claimed 700W, so the most you could do with it, is solder some relatively tiny 10x10mm ICs on phones. QFN and QFP is usually fine. I've only had small issues with large SuperI/O controllers, like Nuvoton NCT6791D etc.
4) Temperature control on this thing is awful, so before using it as a daily driver, you should practice on some donor boards just to get the ballpark of which temperatures to use on which boards and chips. GPUs are the worst enemy of 858D, so I would strongly suggest not to use it. Especially on hi-end GPUs with ridiculous heat capacity. Even a simple FET replacement can turn into a nightmare.
5) If you are working with tiny SMD components, then  only use the lowest airflow setting. Your caps and resistors will fly all over the desk even on medium. That's why I switched to compressor in the first place.

On the good side - replacement parts are cheap and they don't suffer from defective triacs and other issues, like most cheap compressor-based rework stations (e.g. constant hum, or airflow won't turn off etc). Schematics for this thing are available online, so if something goes wrong or breaks - it's quite easy to fix (even easier than spending another $35 on a new one).






						Saike 858D Rework Station - Original Schematic
					

eNBeWe.de - Coding, Life and more ...




					blog.enbewe.de


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