# Water Cooling Dilemma



## Bractastic (Nov 27, 2008)

Currently, I am having the biggest problem on deciding which is the best setup for my system...  I have selected the parts I want to get already, they are listed below:


Radiators:
-Feser X-Changer 120mm Single
-Feser X-Changer 120mm Triple (17mm Fan Spaced)
-Black Ice Micro 2 80mm Dual

Tubing:
-Tygon 3603 3/8" ID 1/2" OD

Reservoir:
-EK MultiOption 150 Res.

Pump:
-Swiftech MCP-655 w/Controller

CPU Waterblock:
-Koolance CPU-340 

VGA Waterblock:
-Koolance VID-428 (GTX 260/280 Waterblock)

Motherboard Chipset Waterblocks:
-Koolance CHC-122 (NB)
-Koolance CHC-125 (SB)

HDD Waterblock:
-Koolance HD-06 w/Dual HDD Kit

Fittings:
Koolance 3/8" ID 1/2" OD Compression Fittings x 22

Optional Cooling Parts:
-Koolance COV-PMP450A
-Thermal Star Thermo/Fan Bus


This is basically what I have been looking at.  Yes, I know its going to cost some cash, but I have already invested some duckets in this beast of a build.

The dilemma arises when I draw out the loop.  I will have to draft it later and post what I am talking about, cuz it is turkey day...  Anyways, I want to run two loops with one pump.  I know it is possible, since the pump cover Koolance offers has two sets of inlets/outlets.  

Please let me know if the parts I am choosing are worth it.  Should I be adding/removing stuff from this loop?  I will try and get the drawing up here tonight.  Anyways, have a happy Thanksgiving and enjoy!!!

-Bractastic


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## Binge (Nov 27, 2008)

A lot of what you have there I am selling :O!  Sounds bad but it's not.  Those are good parts.


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## Bractastic (Nov 30, 2008)

Now with the pump, is it posible to run two outlets and  one inlet?

I want to run two loops with that single pump (MCP-655), and have the loops merge when close to the inlet.


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## EastCoasthandle (Nov 30, 2008)

You will need pretty big Y tubing.  Something like 5/8" ID IMO.  That way you reduce restriction.  If, I understood your correctly you want Y tubing coming out the exit of the pump and Y tubing at the entrance to the rad?  If this is what you have planed go to your local hardware store for it.


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## Woody112 (Nov 30, 2008)

You need to run two loops with 3 radiators. You will see a big hit in performance if you mix in that black ice micro with two high flow feser x-changers in series. Even if you do parallel with the mico with a Y adapter like your saying, you will have a drop in pressure over the rest of the loop, this would add a few degrees Celcius rise in temp over the rest of the system. 
My advice would be to run two loops.
All you'd have to do is purchace a second pump and if you wanted a second resivor.
I have a single 120mm feser cooling a QX9770 and a 4870x2 temps stay reasonable with the CPU running at 4ghz. 
Reasonable being 55-60c on the CPU under full load and 45-50c on the GPU's under full load.
Full load with prime 95 and the fur ball on ati tool.

Just an Idea on a set up. Might give you some more idea's
Loop 1:CPU with the sgl 120mm radiator
Y connector to the 80mm radiator for your hdd coolers
Loop 2:NB SB GPU with the Tpl 120mm radiator
OR
Loop 1:CPU NB with the TPL radiator, Y connector from pump to the 80mm radiator for your HDD coolers
Loop 2:SB GPU with the sgl 120mm radiator.
This would only require two smaller pumps. Say for example two Koolance PMP 450 pumps. With the optional adapter plates for discrete mounting. Gives a clean install as you can change the direction of the inlet and outlet.
Hope this helps


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## Bractastic (Dec 1, 2008)

I actually saw someone else's setup where they had three MCP-355 pumps running in series (actually connected to eachother at the inlet side, amazing).

The thing is, I don't know how much case real estate that will give me.  I ordered a Lian-Li v2010b (freaking huge btw), and with two pumps, three rad's, 6hdds (Raid setup) and a mess of waterblocks in the system...  it seems my space is going to be slammed with watercooling parts.  Aren't those pumps strong enough to push quite a bit of water in the first place?

I do want to run two loops, but after talking with Binge (thanks for the advice btw), it poses a heating problem when directing everything back to the pump.

Give me some ideas on running a single pump setup, with multiloop or single loop.  I have a draft of one series.  I will put more up later.

-Bractastic


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## Bractastic (Dec 1, 2008)

EastCoasthandle said:


> You will need pretty big Y tubing.  Something like 5/8" ID IMO.  That way you reduce restriction.  If, I understood your correctly you want Y tubing coming out the exit of the pump and Y tubing at the entrance to the rad?  If this is what you have planed go to your local hardware store for it.




I was planning on running 3/8'' ID tubing on the outlet side.  When/if merging a 2-loop setup back to inlet, 1/4'' ID would be used.  Any suggestions?


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## Woody112 (Dec 1, 2008)

Bractastic said:


> I actually saw someone else's setup where they had three MCP-355 pumps running in series (actually connected to eachother at the inlet side, amazing).
> 
> The thing is, I don't know how much case real estate that will give me.  I ordered a Lian-Li v2010b (freaking huge btw), and with two pumps, three rad's, 6hdds (Raid setup) and a mess of waterblocks in the system...  it seems my space is going to be slammed with watercooling parts.  Aren't those pumps strong enough to push quite a bit of water in the first place?
> 
> ...


Those mcp 355 are much smaller than what you are wanting to get. 
If you want to save real estate go for this set up as you can place them pretty much any where they will fit and not worry about fixed inlets and outlets.

http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...t_info&manufacturers_id=102&products_id=22586
wit this adapter plate
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...t_info&manufacturers_id=102&products_id=21467

or if you need more flow rate go for one of these.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...t_info&manufacturers_id=102&products_id=21689
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...t_info&manufacturers_id=102&products_id=24724

or

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=201&products_id=24737

Just trying to save you a headache on your new build bro, and these pumps will do just that.
These a re G1/4 thread and have lots of options for fittings to choose from.
Swivel head, angle swivels etc... allow you to mount these things practicly anywhere.


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## Woody112 (Dec 2, 2008)

Bractastic said:


> I actually saw someone else's setup where they had three MCP-355 pumps running in series (actually connected to eachother at the inlet side, amazing).
> 
> The thing is, I don't know how much case real estate that will give me.  I ordered a Lian-Li v2010b (freaking huge btw), and with two pumps, three rad's, 6hdds (Raid setup) and a mess of waterblocks in the system...  it seems my space is going to be slammed with watercooling parts.  Aren't those pumps strong enough to push quite a bit of water in the first place?
> 
> ...


The diagram you are showing just will not work. The problem is that the black ice micro, HDD cooler and your SB water block are going to be way to restrictive and will slow the flow rate on the rest of the system causing a large rise in temps.
Here is a quick diagram of what you could do. The idea is to maintain a good flow rate and seperating the heavy heat load example CPU, GPU, NB from the restictive side. Which in your case is the SB, HDD coolers, and the 80 mm micro radiator. You want these in their own little world or it will hammer the cooling effectivness of your system.


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## EastCoasthandle (Dec 2, 2008)

Bractastic said:


> I was planning on running 3/8'' ID tubing on the outlet side.  When/if merging a 2-loop setup back to inlet, 1/4'' ID would be used.  Any suggestions?



Try to get a ID close to the OD of your tubing (keep in mine of your tube's flexibility).  That was the only way I could remove restriction with those Y tubes. 


Side note, the diameter I mentioned earlier was for 1/2" ID tubing.


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## Woody112 (Dec 2, 2008)

EastCoasthandle said:


> Try to get a ID close to the OD of your tubing (keep in mine of your tube's flexibility).  That was the only way I could remove restriction with those Y tubes.
> 
> 
> Side note, the diameter I mentioned earlier was for 1/2" ID tubing.



Excellent point.
Here is a revised diagram with the ID listed.

Here is a Y adapter that looks good and offers excelent performance.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/cata...ct_info&manufacturers_id=102&products_id=3913


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## Bractastic (Dec 2, 2008)

Here are two loops that I was thinking about.  The first is a series loop with all parts in the circuit.

The second splits the hdd & sb w/b's from the rest of the loop (making them independent).  It still cycles with one pump, any suggestions?

Oh yea, that PMP-450A cover has dual inlet/outlet, so I would be splitting the flow in half.  A few people here already tried this so, I am going with my instinct on this one.


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## Bractastic (Dec 2, 2008)

My brain is getting cooked trying to setup a loop....


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## Binge (Dec 2, 2008)

You're going to get into problems with flow on option #2.  Option 1 has problems with your placement of rads.  The 120.3 would do much better serving the heat coming off of the gpu.  The use of an 80.2 would do better going off of the CPU.  The 120 is all a HDD needs.  Unless you're constantly burning data on and off the drive at high RPM then you aren't going to stress them heat wise.  A lot of the heat will be taken off of your HDD anyway with good case airflow. 

If you're curious you might want to set up two temp sensors and two flow meters, one in each loop and see how it does with your 2nd loop idea.  Who knows, the length of tubing might be just fine?  Still... splitting your pressure can be described like a roller coaster that splits down the middle.  One side of the roller coaster banks left, while the other banks right.  The tracks have to be engineered with however much power is driving the split coasters in mind.  One side might have the correct pressure and distance to travel to keep the ride fast and exciting while the other may be less enjoyable.  Uhhh yeah lame description eh?   Lol the less enjoyable ride doesn't get the benefits of water cooling which is the high flow heat transfer.


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## Bractastic (Dec 3, 2008)

Binge said:


> You're going to get into problems with flow on option #2.  Option 1 has problems with your placement of rads.  The 120.3 would do much better serving the heat coming off of the gpu.  The use of an 80.2 would do better going off of the CPU.  The 120 is all a HDD needs.  Unless you're constantly burning data on and off the drive at high RPM then you aren't going to stress them heat wise.  A lot of the heat will be taken off of your HDD anyway with good case airflow.
> 
> If you're curious you might want to set up two temp sensors and two flow meters, one in each loop and see how it does with your 2nd loop idea.  Who knows, the length of tubing might be just fine?  Still... splitting your pressure can be described like a roller coaster that splits down the middle.  One side of the roller coaster banks left, while the other banks right.  The tracks have to be engineered with however much power is driving the split coasters in mind.  One side might have the correct pressure and distance to travel to keep the ride fast and exciting while the other may be less enjoyable.  Uhhh yeah lame description eh?   Lol the less enjoyable ride doesn't get the benefits of water cooling which is the high flow heat transfer.



I am going to call Six Flags and ask for help.  LOL.  Good explanation though.  Lets try this... I was looking at the new Black Ice M160.  It is basically the upgrade on the Micro2, but don't have the specs on it.

Or better yet, two 120 singles, vice the 80 dual.  Any suggestions?


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## Woody112 (Dec 3, 2008)

Bractastic said:


> I am going to call Six Flags and ask for help.  LOL.  Good explanation though.  Lets try this... I was looking at the new Black Ice M160.  It is basically the upgrade on the Micro2, but don't have the specs on it.
> 
> Or better yet, two 120 singles, vice the 80 dual.  Any suggestions?



you will be much better off with two feser 120.1 than the dual 80mm. They will have the same flow rate and performance will be more predictable because of this.


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## Bractastic (Dec 7, 2008)

Sorry for the late responses guys, was out on business.  Anyways, thanks for the inputs, I think I am going to go with the two 120.1's and a 120.3

This setup should be fine in a single loop, so that is what I will be going with.  It will be similar to the first layout, I may just modify the flow of water to hit the hdd's first, and finish off with the vga.

Any suggestions?  Still going with a single pump setup btw.


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## EnergyFX (Dec 7, 2008)

Consider this:

-- Watercooled HDD is always overkill, which means you have very broad options with where to put a HDD cooler in a water loop.  The HDD cooler will still work perfectly fine if it is located AFTER a high heat source such as the GPU or CPU.  A HDD being cooled by superheated coolant will still operate perfectly fine and very stable.

-- SB watercooling is also slightly overkill.  Usually the only reasons to watercool the SB is either because youjust really want to or because the SB relied on the NB heatsink which is being removed to watercool the NB.  In any case, the SB can endure the same superheated coolant that the HDD can.  So you have wide options with it... and can confidently place it after other heat sources in a loop.

-- The HDD, SB, VID coolers are restrictive.

-- The CPU 340 is capable of a rather high flow rate.  You should take advantage of this by running a single loop straight from the pump to the CPU 340 and then splitting your loop after that.  This gives max flow to the high flow CPU 340 and splits to two restrictive loops after it.

I suggest: (image attached)


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## Bractastic (Dec 8, 2008)

FX, a Feser 120.1 will take the place of that 80.2

If I am running a raid setup, won't the southbridge get hot?  I am going to be using all 6 sata slots for hdd's (2 raptors in raid 0; 4 in raid 5)

It will definitely make that part of the board run hot when data transfer commences.

Now as far as the loop goes, a single series would not do any good?  You guys are recommending a split loop?  And finishing the the circuit with the 120.3 back to the res, then pump...  wouldn't it be better if it closed from the rad to the pump, then back to the res?  Binge (thanks for the info) said there is risidual heat that comes from the pump, so, putting it back to the res should mix up the temp slightly.

Pretty much the same setup you created FX, except swapping the res from one side of the pump to the other...


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## EnergyFX (Dec 8, 2008)

Bractastic said:


> If I am running a raid setup, won't the southbridge get hot?  I am going to be using all 6 sata slots for hdd's (2 raptors in raid 0; 4 in raid 5)
> 
> It will definitely make that part of the board run hot when data transfer commences.



Ok, your SB will run a bit warmer that most other SBs... but it still doesn't need extreme cooling.  having the SB trail another heat source will still work fine.




			
				Bractastic said:
			
		

> Now as far as the loop goes, a single series would not do any good?


Some will say absolutely "NO".  I say it will work, just not as well as other parallel or series parallel options.  You are compounding resistance and it will effect the cooling capability of the system.

Have you seen my computer? Talk about multiple sources of resistance!!  All I can tell you is what my opinion is on the matter and what I would do if it were my system.



			
				Bractastic said:
			
		

> You guys are recommending a split loop?  And finishing the the circuit with the 120.3 back to the res, then pump...  wouldn't it be better if it closed from the rad to the pump, then back to the res?  Binge (thanks for the info) said there is risidual heat that comes from the pump, so, putting it back to the res should mix up the temp slightly.



It will work either way (Pump >> Res) or (Res>>Pump).  It isn't going to affect the temperature either way.  You will get a bit of heat from the pump but putting the Res after the pump isn't going to change that unless your Res has some sort of heat dissipation qualities.  Mixing it up isn't really a factor since you aren't actually mixing it with cooler coolant from anywhere.  Everythign is coming from the same source and going to the same destination.


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## Whilhelm (Dec 8, 2008)

I would really recommend putting the Res before the pump. It makes filling and bleeding the system much easier. It is also preferable to place the reservoir above the pump. HDDs don't really need to be water cooled and will only add more heat and reduced flow to your loop.


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