# AMD's Graphics going under?



## Super XP (Oct 13, 2012)

Is AMD insane? What's with the bloody board of directors, if this news is true, why on earth would you try to disintegrate the department that's running efficient and making the company profit?

Link:
*AMD’s layoffs target engineering
Board incompetence dooms the company*
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/10/12/amds-layoffs-target-engineering/


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## Phusius (Oct 13, 2012)

semi accurate... lol


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## trickson (Oct 13, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Is AMD insane? What's with the bloody board of directors, if this news is true, why on earth would you try to disintegrate the department that's running efficient and making the company profit?
> 
> Link:
> *AMD’s layoffs target engineering
> ...



It wouldn't surprise me at all.


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## Aquinus (Oct 13, 2012)

No wonder AMD is only 2.74 USD a share.


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## trickson (Oct 13, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> No wonder AMD is only 2.74 USD a share.



I think it is because AMD has lost it edge it once had and is sliding into some kind of weird Over Clocking PR game and NOT giving Intel a real run for it's money.
AMD should be using every thing they have to retake the lead not just jack up the CPU speed and put out the lames ass shit Over clocking crap they have been doing. All there PR is backfiring on them!


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## erocker (Oct 13, 2012)

It's been a gradual downward spiral for AMD since around 2007. It's a real shame how management can really screw things up like this. Time will tell what happens of course, but this is indeed bad news. On the bright side AMD's stock can't really get much lower, perhaps it's time to buy... If you like to gamble.


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## Aquinus (Oct 13, 2012)

erocker said:


> It's been a gradual downward spiral for AMD since around 2007. It's a real shame how management can really screw things up like this. Time will tell what happens of course, but this is indeed bad news. On the bright side AMD's stock can't really get much lower, perhaps it's time to buy... If you like to gamble.



I've been debating it. It's a huge gamble though. It may be worth throwing at least a little money in to see what happens. Maybe enough where if you succeed you have enough to pay yourself back and buy you and your buddies a round at the bar.


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## happita (Oct 13, 2012)

The graphics division isn't really what's been putting them in the shitter these past few years. Lots of reasons why they aren't doing so good, not just because of their dwindling CPU division.


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## Xzibit (Oct 13, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Is AMD insane? What's with the bloody board of directors, if this news is true, why on earth would you try to disintegrate the department that's running efficient and making the company profit?
> 
> Link:
> *AMD’s layoffs target engineering
> ...



Thats simple.

AMD is stuggling not because their Graphic department isnt selling but because they fumbled the CPU role-out Lliano.  They couldnt co-ordinate product roll out properly and they were siting on inventory for months on end.

The graphic division has been gaining market share on Nvidia 2 quarters in a row.  It be silly for them to sell something thats doing well to prop-up the CPU division.

I expect next quater conference call for AMD to alert there investors that there is a possibility of a sale much like Nvidia had to do last year.  Qualcomm and Microsoft might be the obvious buyers with the capital to spare to ride the current enviroment out and bring it back once global markets show stability.

If the current enviroment persist you can expect Nvidia soon to follow.  There operational cost has been a concern for investors for over a year and they havent been able to grow into those cost which keep growing.  Bad timing is also against them with there ARM investment and the company they are trying to immulate with ARM base cpus Applied Micro has seen 1yr of contraction.  Another area AMD invested in by buying SeaMicro early this year.


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## BlackOmega (Oct 13, 2012)

This is just getting stupid. I don't like to agree with Charlie, but he's been semi-accurate a lot of times.

 What AMD REALLY needs to focus on is their graphics, pretty much the only thing that's been keeping it afloat. 
 They need to get their drivers in order and really start putting out some nvidia crushing products. 

 Sad to see what's become of them.


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## Kreij (Oct 13, 2012)

In my humble opinion, the thing that is hurting AMD the most if their lack of any consumer based marketing.
The average Joe does not know who they are, or what they make.


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## trickson (Oct 13, 2012)

Kreij said:


> In my humble opinion, the thing that is hurting AMD the most if their lack of any consumer based marketing.
> The average Joe does not know who they are, or what they make.



I agree. But this is because they are focused on over clocking records not real performance and REAL marketing. You can not have a product and not advertise it! It is just not going to do well. They needed to step up there adds and have FAILED miserably at it! Intel is always in some computer commercial! No one knows because they do not tell any one about there product! 
Being a house hold name is getting your product on the Idiot box that MILLIONS watch EVERY DAY!


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## ThE_MaD_ShOt (Oct 13, 2012)

Kreij said:


> In my humble opinion, the thing that is hurting AMD the most if their lack of any consumer based marketing.
> The average Joe does not know who they are, or what they make.



I agree here. They need more advertising.


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 13, 2012)

My gaming chronology goes like this...

Three years on a Ti 4200 w/ AMD CPU
Four years on an X800XT w/ Intel CPU
Three years on an X1950Pro w/ Intel CPU
Last two years on a GTS 250 w/ Intel CPU

I'm prefacing my post with this to clarify I've given ATI/AMD plenty chance. As you can see, 10 of my 12 years of gaming have been spent using either one of their processors or GPUs.

The way I see it, drivers have ALWAYS been their underlying Achilles heel. Even in their Athlon hey day. When Intel went on their full bore Halfnium die shrink plan with well executed details, AMD tried to beat them to it. By the time they ironed out Phenom's bugs, it was too late. It already had gotten so much bad press it hurt them badly.

Bulldozer really SHOULD have been marketed as a workstation CPU, with another more game oriented design along side it that can handle lesser threading more efficiently.

Graphics wise though, their hardware engineers should be praised. I don't know if AMD writes their graphics drivers, installers, control panel, etc  in house, or sources it out, but it's clear it can be done much better.

When you see a crack team of non profit, volunteer enthusiasts from sites like Guru3D, Rage3D, and XtremeSystems get together to collaborate via an extensive ongoing process to offer such tools like RadeonPro because CCC never ever improves, it's clear AMD are crippling even their best dept with poor software support.


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## Phusius (Oct 13, 2012)

i like boobs


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 13, 2012)

erocker said:


> It's been a gradual downward spiral for AMD since around 2007. It's a real shame how management can really screw things up like this. Time will tell what happens of course, but this is indeed bad news. On the bright side AMD's stock can't really get much lower, perhaps it's time to buy... If you like to gamble.


2006*

1. AMD bought out ATI.  They didn't have the resources for it and still don't.  Instead of buying out ATI, they should have put that money into making a better product or a mass marketing campaign.

2. Intel released Core 2 Duo which trounced not only everything AMD had available, but everything they planned on releasing too (specifically Phenom/Phenom II).


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## Phusius (Oct 13, 2012)

I wish I had some money to buy AMD stock, if all three next gen consoles are using AMD as rumored...


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## mediasorcerer (Oct 13, 2012)

I hope they come back up, we as consumers, whether you like amd or not, DESPERATELY NEED the competition of amd in the market, or otherwise intel and nvidia will gouge us worse than they already do, and they are both prudes too, amd is not.


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## FordGT90Concept (Oct 13, 2012)

Phusius said:


> I wish I had some money to buy AMD stock, if all three next gen consoles are using AMD as rumored...


GPUs, not CPUs, and they barely sell them for more than cost.  Before the buyout, AMD's processor division was about 20x larger than ATI.  No matter how well the graphics division does, it will never be enough to keep the processor division afloat.


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## newtekie1 (Oct 13, 2012)

Where AMD's processor division seems to shine is the lower end market. Just today I was at my local best buy picking out a desktop computer for a client, and in the under $400 range there were 6 AMDs available and one Intel.  And the cheapest AMD was a dual-core machine for $150!  I shit you not, an entire working tower with a dual-core processor, 2GB of RAM, 500GB hard drive, and DVD-RW for $150. The cheapest Intel was $379...  Yeah, the Intel was more powerful for sure, but the AMD machine is perfect for a office system, I don't know why anyone buying for that purpose would ever spend the money on the Intel.

People want to talk about AMD not competing at the top level, well there isn't a lot of money at the top level so why chase it?  The money is in the lower and middle levels, and that is where AMD is focusing, and they actually aren't that bad.


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 13, 2012)

mediasorcerer said:


> ...whether you like amd or not, DESPERATELY NEED the competition of amd in the market, or otherwise intel and nvidia will gouge us worse than they already do...



So true, and it's not just pricing. I really don't like this voltage lock down Nvidia is implementing, then scaring most of their GPU vendors into adhering to it or losing their warranty support. Lock downs are for hardened criminals, not gamers.


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## NC37 (Oct 13, 2012)

To be fair, the driver problem was ATI's not AMD's. AMD just inherited it and didn't do anything to fix it. 

nVidia has been through a mess in PR as well but they've stayed up there. Part in fact due to their preconceived notion of performance and quality. But I've been wondering for years how long till it catches up. Some of their business moves have been beyond the moronic level that AMD has done.

Ultimately AMD does need a new overlord to reorganize. But lets be realistic. They can't just drop everything and change course easily. If they stopped now their CPU division would be out of action for awhile getting new designs ready. This isn't a, stop, redo, then fight Intel toe to toe next week situation. Without them in the picture, then what, Intel just gets bigger with no competition till ARM RISC designs catch up in performance.

M$ has courted with AMD before, but I don't think M$ is in a buying mood with Flopper 8 launching. They are still more software focused rather than hardware. It would put them in control over the GPU of choice for all the next gen consoles, which won't bode well for the industry. 

So who else has a wad of cash stockpiled and works closely with AMD and AMD has supported in the past...uh huh, yeah thats right, I'm thinkin it. But why would they buy AMD when they have Intel as a partner? Because the relationship with Intel hasn't been all lovey lovey and because APUs are wonderful designs for gadgets or appliance computers. Plus if they owned AMD, they could eventually move to a complete closed system like they want. All hardware, software, and design done in house.


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## v12dock (Oct 13, 2012)

IBM just buy AMD already


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## xenocide (Oct 13, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> Where AMD's processor division seems to shine is the lower end market. Just today I was at my local best buy picking out a desktop computer for a client, and in the under $400 range there were 6 AMDs available and one Intel.  And the cheapest AMD was a dual-core machine for $150!  I shit you not, an entire working tower with a dual-core processor, 2GB of RAM, 500GB hard drive, and DVD-RW for $150. The cheapest Intel was $379...  Yeah, the Intel was more powerful for sure, but the AMD machine is perfect for a office system, I don't know why anyone buying for that purpose would ever spend the money on the Intel.
> 
> People want to talk about AMD not competing at the top level, well there isn't a lot of money at the top level so why chase it?  The money is in the lower and middle levels, and that is where AMD is focusing, and they actually aren't that bad.



Is catering only to the bottom level working out for them?  Unfortunately not as well as you would think.  In order to make good profit on selling with slim profit margins, they have to be able to move massive quantities of CPU's, and they just aren't.


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## Aquinus (Oct 13, 2012)

The problem is a lot of companies go with Intel because Intel will make an agreement with them saying "We'll give you our processors at a reduced rate, however, you must only offer Intel CPUs". There is a reason why you don't see a Dell with an AMD processor anymore. It's a damn shame and it's things like that which are going to kill AMD.


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## Nyte (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm praying for a good severance package 

Anyone can suggest a company for someone with my credentials to apply to??

Here's my LinkedIn profile if you're curious or don't believe me:

http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/stephen-co/2/ba4/810


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## FreedomEclipse (Oct 13, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> The problem is a lot of companies go with Intel because Intel will make an agreement with them saying "We'll give you our processors at a reduced rate, however, you must only offer Intel CPUs". There is a reason why you don't see a Dell with an AMD processor anymore. It's a damn shame and it's things like that which are going to kill AMD.



They got in trouble in the U.S and Europe for doing that. they got fined heavily by both courts for anti-competitive behaviour.

Obviously Id like to say that Intel has learnt to behave itself but no one knows what goes behind closed doors unless some whistleblower decides to make it public


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## Crap Daddy (Oct 13, 2012)

It seems to be true but it's not mentioned that the graphics division will be hit harder.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...ces-said-to-plan-to-cut-as-many-as-2-340-jobs


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## v12dock (Oct 13, 2012)

Nyte said:


> I'm praying for a good severance package
> 
> Anyone can suggest a company for someone with my credentials to apply to??
> 
> ...



Go help Intel


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## FreedomEclipse (Oct 13, 2012)

v12dock said:


> Go help Intel



I think Intel would already have their own people....


Go help ARM - they could do with your expertise and experience as they are hoping to get into desktop CPU market


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## Jetster (Oct 13, 2012)

Maybe there called Simiaccurate for a reason


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## Nyte (Oct 13, 2012)

FreedomEclipse said:


> I think Intel would already have their own people....
> 
> 
> Go help ARM - they could do with your expertise and experience as they are hoping to get into desktop CPU market



I'm a graphics guy   More specifically, I specialize in PCI-Express


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## Crap Daddy (Oct 13, 2012)

Nyte said:


> I'm a graphics guy   More specifically, I specialize in PCI-Express



Maybe they will keep you but in the long run I think it's good to find an alternative.
Nvidia maybe?


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## Nyte (Oct 13, 2012)

Crap Daddy said:


> Maybe they will keep you but in the long run I think it's good to find an alternative.
> Nvidia maybe?



Which means I gotta move sigh (assuming I even get a position there) 

I should have become a dentist... everyone needs clean teeth right?


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## FreedomEclipse (Oct 13, 2012)

Nyte said:


> I'm a graphics guy   More specifically, I specialize in PCI-Express



Ok..... Im gonna be honest with you.

1. Gather your team - or people from other departments who you think will be useful.

2. Give them an epic moral boosting speech

3. Start a mutiny aboard U.S.S AMD

4. All get laid off (c'mon - you all had it coming anyway)

5. out of the group of rebels pick your right hand man

6. make a new company with the rebels guys you left AMD with.

7. Sell your GPUs

8. Profit!



Of course the mutiny part is optional. 

-- Im referencing this plan to the guys who left Nokia to form their own company and made a new handset using the tech that Nokia never used.


I dont think you guys could call yourself ATi as AMD probably has the rights to it, but you'd be working in ATi's stead to bring back what was so awesome about ATi back before they got bought out by AMD.

Just make sure you tiptoe around any tech that could probably land you in court with AMD with their dogs sniffing around for patent infringements


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## Liquid Cool (Oct 13, 2012)

Two points...

1) Have you seen the weekly chart of AMD lately?  It's heading well under a buck...and isn't coming back any time soon.  The standard deviation from here would net you 10 cents a share.

2) A company that produces discrete graphics cards going forward simply won't make it.  The demand curve is on the back side...

Smells like a strategic move to me...although, I don't follow tech companies, but I do read Charlie...not many realists in this sector.

I'll say it again...you're on the top of a Depression - dead ahead...

Best,

Liquid Cool


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## _JP_ (Oct 13, 2012)

FreedomEclipse said:


> They got in trouble in the U.S and Europe for doing that. they got fined heavily by both courts for anti-competitive behaviour.
> 
> Obviously Id like to say that Intel has learnt to behave itself but no one knows what goes behind closed doors unless some whistleblower decides to make it public


No it hasn't. Just look at netbooks. A manufacturer can say that there's almost an equal percentage of models with processors from both companies, but guess what, when you get to a store, the story changes dramatically. At least here.


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## FreedomEclipse (Oct 13, 2012)

_JP_ said:


> No it hasn't. Just look at netbooks. A manufacturer can say that there's almost an equal percentage of models with processors from both companies, but guess what, when you get to a store, the story changes dramatically. At least here.



AMD's new line of APUs are just hitting the market. dont be so quick to jump the gun my friend. give them time to grow and get settled


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## _JP_ (Oct 13, 2012)

Lack of marketing and being late to the market makes that task way much harder. Plus, netbook buyers are clueless. AMD's APUs @1GHz or 1.2GHz (compared with Atoms @ 1.6GHz), and not clearly stating which are dual or single core makes it worse. Intel has established itself almost as the netbooks hardware provider (consumer mentality-wise). AMD either cranks-up its marketing, or they won't sell much.
Then again, I'm basing this on what I see around here. I have no idea if this happens on other countries.


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## FreedomEclipse (Oct 13, 2012)

Consumer wise - most know the difference between dual core and single core. They might not know a lot but they know enough. most have enough savvy to ask if it is a single/dual/quad core netbook/laptop they are buying

they might not know everything down to the nittygritty but dont be so quick to lump all the general consumers as totally mindless when it comes to pc tech.

Dual Core Atoms have been on more netbooks then i can imagine - It is the standard. In the early days when netbooks were new to the market a single core would have been adequate as all it would be running was Windows XP.

My AMD E-350 is 1.6GHz, my sisters E-450 is 1.65Ghz (Brazo's APUs for netbooks go upto 1.7Ghz but meh)

AMD APUs are quite popular here in the UK. and there are a lot of ACER & Samsung netbooks with them installed. 

and people that know about these APUs know they are better then Intel atoms. 

Unless the Atom was paired with an ION/ION 2 platform then there is no way that it can match the AMD. though I do admit that the Atom is generally more power efficient but then its not an APU and it cant game like an AMD APU or run 1080p/720p movies like an AMD APU can because the CPU and the GPU it comes with are just too weak.

Even though AMD dont spend a ton of money on marketing, there are try-hards such as myself out there that know this stuff well enough to recommend it to everyone else and so the word spreads and keeps on spreading.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 13, 2012)

Course those APUs pack more power than the Atom, both in CPU and graphics



FreedomEclipse said:


> Consumer wise - most know the difference between dual core and single core. They might not know a lot but they know enough. most have enough savvy to ask if it is a single/dual/quad core netbook/laptop they are buying
> 
> they might not know everything down to the nittygritty but dont be so quick to lump all the general consumers as totally mindless when it comes to pc tech.
> 
> ...


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## _JP_ (Oct 13, 2012)

Well then, I guess the scenario is different here. I do my share of recommendations too. It doesn't surprise me anymore that most people (here) don't even know what an "AMD" is. They just want a computer. Whichever looks "prettier" will do nicely.


FreedomEclipse said:


> Ok..... Im gonna be honest with you.
> 
> 1. Gather your team - or people from other departments who you think will be useful.
> 
> ...


Defib S3. I think it's stuck in limbo (HTC) but could be brought back.


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## Crap Daddy (Oct 13, 2012)

FreedomEclipse said:


> My AMD E-350 is 1.6GHz, my sisters E-450 is 1.65Ghz (Brazo's APUs for netbooks go upto 1.7Ghz but meh)
> 
> AMD APUs are quite popular here in the UK. and there are a lot of ACER & Samsung netbooks with them installed.
> 
> and people that know about these APUs know they are better then Intel atoms.



While this is true the concept of netbooks is going down. They are finished. People are either getting tablets or smartphones or if they want more, laptops.


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## FreedomEclipse (Oct 13, 2012)

_JP_ said:


> Well then, I guess the scenario is different here. I do my share of recommendations too. It doesn't surprise me anymore that most people (here) don't even know what an "AMD" is. They just want a computer. Whichever looks "prettier" will do nicely.
> 
> Defib S3. I think it's stuck in limbo (HTC) but could be brought back.




I think that would demand a lot more capital to pull off. I dunno though... then again if investors started throwing their money into this new company that splits from AMD. who knows how it could end up.

I for one would really like to see a split. all of the old ATi crew need to distance themselves from AMD and push forward under their own steam. so long as they can build a solid GPU and can come out with some good tech, then im sure investors wont be far behind waiting to throw money at them.



Crap Daddy said:


> While this is true the concept of netbooks is going down. They are finished. People are either getting tablets or smartphones or if they want more, laptops.



Ultrabooks?


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## GC_PaNzerFIN (Oct 13, 2012)

ARM is a big bear chasing AMD and Intel in consumer market. Now it looks like Intel pushed AMD to the ground and is running away as fast as it can while ARM is eating AMD shoes already.

Of course, I am referring to the latest strategic choice of AMD to focus in low-power segment. Something they still have some foothold. But not very long at the development rate of ARM.


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## Crap Daddy (Oct 13, 2012)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Ultrabooks?



Another fail story until now. That hurts Intel mostly. Windows 8 will not help much either since it's more a mobile, tablet-centric OS. We are living some hard times for the PC world and the first to fall are the weaker ones, like AMD.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 13, 2012)

sad to see Nyte adding some weight to this story, hope its not as bad as stated.

I do hope it all turns good for you Nyte i might add


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## de.das.dude (Oct 13, 2012)

AMD needs better marketing. thats the end of the line. amd has pretty decent products for their price. not most of the people try to get the most bang for buck. its a shame AMD hasnt been able spread its knowledge. i can bet that atleast 30% of computer consumers havent heard of AMD yet.

AMD needs to market its APU line a lot better. just some demos now and then wont do. they need to increase the interaction with the base consumer directly.


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## os2wiz (Oct 13, 2012)

*Anti-trust conspiracy*



Aquinus said:


> The problem is a lot of companies go with Intel because Intel will make an agreement with them saying "We'll give you our processors at a reduced rate, however, you must only offer Intel CPUs". There is a reason why you don't see a Dell with an AMD processor anymore. It's a damn shame and it's things like that which are going to kill AMD.



Such agreements are wholely illegal. Capitalism should be illegal as well.


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## de.das.dude (Oct 13, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> Such agreements are wholely illegal. Capitalism should be illegal as well.



and intel paid up for it once, if i am not mistaken.


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## tacosRcool (Oct 13, 2012)

Kreij said:


> In my humble opinion, the thing that is hurting AMD the most if their lack of any consumer based marketing.
> The average Joe does not know who they are, or what they make.



also there was that thing with Intel and PC makers to not include AMD chips in computers or very little. You still don't see enough AMD chips about especially with Windows 8


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## os2wiz (Oct 13, 2012)

de.das.dude said:


> and intel paid up for it once, if i am not mistaken.




 The problem is according to the Sherman Anti-trust Act they should have paid TRIPLE damages. They never even paid the full damages let alone triple damages done to AMD in lost revenue.  That is the proof there is no such thing that these capitalist pundits called the "free market". It is rigged and has been rigged in almost every industry since the days of the Standard Oil Trust. The basic law of capitalism is that the capitalist must maximize their profits. If that takes bribery, gouging the consumer, and even murder that is all part of the game. Every day 80 workers die on the job due to industrial accidents. in the US. Worldwide that number would be 8 times that number. look at the hundreds if not thousands that perish in fires every year in Pakistan and Bangladesh, where they are locked inside their factories.
 Point made subject closed.


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## trickson (Oct 13, 2012)

tacosRcool said:


> also there was that thing with Intel and PC makers to not include AMD chips in computers or very little. You still don't see enough AMD chips about especially with Windows 8



If I am not mistaken Intel lost the lawsuit that AMD brought against them for this very thing and yet once they did win they dropped the ball. I think AMD should have focused on there CPU department and should have NEVER bought out ATI. We all knew some thing like this was going to happen when AMD did this it just took longer is all. Now AMD could turn this around with some real marketing or even selling off ATI.


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## Aquinus (Oct 14, 2012)

trickson said:


> Now AMD could turn this around with some real marketing or even selling off ATI.



One of the points of acquiring ATi was getting the Radeon developers and licenses so they could do the APUs. Most users (in general) won't need something stronger than an APU, like a 5800k so I think AMD has been focusing on the right things. Their marketing strategy sucks though. There are still a lot of Intel-only vendors out there and it sucks for AMD.


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## Super XP (Oct 14, 2012)

Kreij said:


> In my humble opinion, the thing that is hurting AMD the most if their lack of any consumer based marketing.
> The average Joe does not know who they are, or what they make.


Agreed. This is why everybody heard of Intel. Remember "INTEL INSIDE". This strategy helped convince consumers that oh, this must be good its an Intel.  Though we are talking about people that think your PC case is called a harddrive, and don't know jack about components.


trickson said:


> I agree. But this is because they are focused on over clocking records not real performance and REAL marketing. You can not have a product and not advertise it! It is just not going to do well. They needed to step up there adds and have FAILED miserably at it! Intel is always in some computer commercial! No one knows because they do not tell any one about there product!
> Being a house hold name is getting your product on the Idiot box that MILLIONS watch EVERY DAY!


Agreed. It's nice for individuals to OC and brag about it, but AMD's marketing department need to put more trust in there hardware and stop this nonsense OC'ing marketing strategy that ultimately voids warranty anyway.

1st generation Bulldozer may have not been what we all expected. But it still runs and does anything I throw at it. As generations mature, this will get better, until then stay away from Bloody OC'ing and concentrate on the CPU's strengths.


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## de.das.dude (Oct 14, 2012)

man, amd marketing sucks so bad, i would work for their marketing dept for free.


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## GC_PaNzerFIN (Oct 14, 2012)

http://allthingsd.com/20121012/exclusive-amd-to-cut-up-to-30-percent-of-workforce/?

Sad news.


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## Nordic (Oct 14, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> The problem is according to the Sherman Anti-trust Act they should have paid TRIPLE damages. They never even paid the full damages let alone triple damages done to AMD in lost revenue.  That is the proof there is no such thing that these capitalist pundits called the "free market". It is rigged and has been rigged in almost every industry since the days of the Standard Oil Trust. The basic law of capitalism is that the capitalist must maximize their profits. If that takes bribery, gouging the consumer, and even murder that is all part of the game. Every day 80 workers die on the job due to industrial accidents. in the US. Worldwide that number would be 8 times that number. look at the hundreds if not thousands that perish in fires every year in Pakistan and Bangladesh, where they are locked inside their factories.
> Point made subject closed.



If you feel like discussing the underlying structure and "the game" send me a pm.


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## os2wiz (Oct 14, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Is AMD insane? What's with the bloody board of directors, if this news is true, why on earth would you try to disintegrate the department that's running efficient and making the company profit?
> 
> Link:
> *AMD’s layoffs target engineering
> ...



  Not sure if the insanity of capitalism is the issue, but they are burning through venture capital and bank financing at an incredible pace and probably have been told by their creditors to make the move. I would have held back the news until a few weeks after trinty and vishera release so they can see if things are improving. I guess selling off ATI will raise money for them and since they have already milked that technology it buys them time to right the cpu business. It is extremely severe and means if vishera and trinity and their tablet ventures don't expand as hoped they will be in the toilet before next summer.
    I really hope this is NOT what happens. as I do NOT wish to have to change my motherboard and cpu to the over-priced Intel moniker.


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## erocker (Oct 14, 2012)

From what I've read so far this seems like management is squeezing the company dry. Hopefully not but this seems to be almost common practice with predatory capitalism. I'll get worried when hardware stops releasing.


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## xenocide (Oct 14, 2012)

erocker said:


> From what I've read so far this seems like management is squeezing the company dry. Hopefully not but this seems to be almost common practice with predatory capitalism. I'll get worried when hardware stops releasing.



It's 21st Century Neo-Conservative Capitalism at work.  As someone who works for a big blue three letter company (although only at the base level) I can tell you it's not just AMD doing this kind of thing.  These companies are all about cutting costs and maximizing profits quarter to quarter.  If it means cutting a third of your work force, so be it.  It's going to lead to problems down the road, but they don't seem to mind sadly...


----------



## erocker (Oct 14, 2012)

xenocide said:


> It's 21st Century Neo-Conservative Capitalism at work.  As someone who works for a big blue three letter company (although only at the base level) I can tell you it's not just AMD doing this kind of thing.  These companies are all about cutting costs and maximizing profits quarter to quarter.  If it means cutting a third of your work force, so be it.  It's going to lead to problems down the road, but they don't seem to mind sadly...



Yes, hence the "common practice" comment.


----------



## xenocide (Oct 14, 2012)

erocker said:


> Yes, hence the "common practice" comment.



It's quite a shame to.  A lot of these companies would be doing a lot better if they just buckled down and invested looking forward.  Nothing sucks worse than seeing production fab-wide held up for "Down for spending".


----------



## crazyeyesreaper (Oct 14, 2012)

meh who cares im with erocker untill products stop releasing or drivers stop coming i dont care untill then its nothing but bs

a company that fails must restructure, AMD has been constantly failing in certain regards it either fixes itself or goes under thats the way it works. Untill then i wont worry about it.


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## os2wiz (Oct 14, 2012)

xenocide said:


> It's quite a shame to.  A lot of these companies would be doing a lot better if they just buckled down and invested looking forward.  Nothing sucks worse than seeing production fab-wide held up for "Down for spending".



  Yes the problem of this shorted sighted corporate policy, pasted on top of global financial crisis= global depression, is leading to a global race to the bottom. Wage cuts, mass unemployment, and falling per capita incomes plus fiscal austerity means the second global collapse comes very soon. It will be more intense and permanent. Only global war with mass extermination of the "surplus labor force" (the unemployed) and destruction  of the means of production of your competitor states can lead to the basis for a capitalist recovery. The hideous murder of millions and the misery forced on the whole of humanity makes the alternative of communist revolution with the hardships faced in building a better , more rational, and caring world pale in comparison to the coming inter-imperialist war driven by rivalry. That is why the drive towards a police state and micromanagement of the work force is all important to the bosses and their state. They need a compliant and patriotic working class to buy into the global warfare strategy.           

    Watch out for the Chinese, they just built their first nuclear aircraft carrier and already have a handful of nuclear subs.They are planning to project their growing naval power into the Indian Ocean, South China Sea, and the Straits of Molucca where their oil tankers make the trip to the Persian Gulf.  The Seventh Fleet will no longer have domain in that region within 5 years. That will be the tinder box for global war.


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## Xzibit (Oct 14, 2012)

xenocide said:


> It's 21st Century Neo-Conservative Capitalism at work.  As someone who works for a big blue three letter company (although only at the base level) I can tell you it's not just AMD doing this kind of thing.  These companies are all about cutting costs and maximizing profits quarter to quarter.  If it means cutting a third of your work force, so be it.  It's going to lead to problems down the road, but they don't seem to mind sadly...



Yes cause in good times when money is rolling-in and business is good a company can maintain growth and hire workers but when times get tough and the business needs to be maintained while sales and growth arent there.  How dare a company do with less to survive in a competative invorment during a global financial slow-down.


Yes lets keep all our worker so we all go down with the ship at a much faster pace.  Keep piling up debt and investors with capital will not invest. The possibility to get a loan to keep the company afloat will dry up faster. No-one survives and we are all out of a job.


How dare businesses act like businesses.  Shame on them right . 

Time to go work pro bono.  You mean volunteering doesnt pay


----------



## trickson (Oct 14, 2012)

This tell it all.


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## ensabrenoir (Oct 14, 2012)

*Nuts...*



de.das.dude said:


> AMD needs better marketing. thats the end of the line. amd has pretty decent products for their price. not most of the people try to get the most bang for buck. its a shame AMD hasnt been able spread its knowledge. i can bet that atleast 30% of computer consumers havent heard of AMD yet.
> 
> AMD needs to market its APU line a lot better. just some demos now and then wont do. they need to increase the interaction with the base consumer directly.



The market amd is aiming for doesn't care if the cpu is made by fisher price....all they want is the cheapest.  And they buy once every 2 - 4 years. The small businesses and professionals want the best for their needs at the best prices.  They invest in what ever and when ever it as long as itll grow their business.   I sell more intel based laptops than amd....yet get more returns on amd based products because it couldn't  handle the clients needs or multitasking.  This cost small businesses time and money...something no one can afford to loose.  Marketing is only 1/2 of the solution gotta walk it too.  They should sell off their gpu business(so it'll survive) or stop the slow death thing and do a total ground up restructure and relaunch.


----------



## os2wiz (Oct 14, 2012)

Xzibit said:


> Yes cause in good times when money is rolling-in and business is good a company can maintain growth and hire workers but when times get tough and the business needs to be maintained while sales and growth arent there.  How dare a company do with less to survive in a competative invorment during a global financial slow-down.
> 
> 
> Yes lets keep all our worker so we all go down with the ship at a much faster pace.  Keep piling up debt and investors with capital will not invest. The possibility to get a loan to keep the company afloat will dry up faster. No-one survives and we are all out of a job.
> ...



  When the working class is driven to revolution they will seize these businesses and the state that that backs them up. 30% unemployment does not phase you. Just watch out friend. A lot of angry jobless people out there are thinking otherwise. There is a quantum point of no return and the capitalist world is reaching it. Read my explanation of the global crisis and that it will lead to global war. This is real, not fantasy.  If you were upset by Occupy Wall Street , wait intil the the s--t really hits the fan when the double dip begins in the coming year.


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## xenocide (Oct 15, 2012)

Xzibit said:


> Yes cause in good times when money is rolling-in and business is good a company can maintain growth and hire workers but when times get tough and the business needs to be maintained while sales and growth arent there.  How dare a company do with less to survive in a competative invorment during a global financial slow-down.
> 
> 
> Yes lets keep all our worker so we all go down with the ship at a much faster pace.  Keep piling up debt and investors with capital will not invest. The possibility to get a loan to keep the company afloat will dry up faster. No-one survives and we are all out of a job.
> ...



The problem is they are laying off employees from branches unrelated to the problem.  It would make sense if they trimmed their CPU division which is bleeding money, but they aren't, they are letting go people who have done a good job in their graphics division.  My problem isn't them running like a business, it's the idea that companies working on profit quarter to quarter is acceptable.  Do you think Intel fires crap loads of employees to raise their profits a little bit here and there?

Do you think AMD losing money has affected CEO or other Executive pay?  I doubt it.  They are unequally cutting back, by continuing to pay Rory crap loads to his excellent work, and cutting jobs for engineers in a successful division to compensate, how is that fair?


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## Aquinus (Oct 15, 2012)

xenocide said:


> Do you think AMD losing money has affected CEO or other Executive pay? I doubt it. They are unequally cutting back, by continuing to pay Rory crap loads to his excellent work, and cutting jobs for engineers in a successful division to compensate, how is that fair?


It's not. Unfortunately the people who probably should be replaced are the ones who make those kinds of decisions. 


os2wiz said:


> If you were upset by Occupy Wall Street , wait intil the the s--t really hits the fan when the double dip begins in the coming year.


I was upset with what led to the Occupy protests. It all boils down to one word: Greed. It can make as much as it can destroy.


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## xenocide (Oct 15, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> It's not. Unfortunately the people who probably should be replaced are the ones who make those kinds of decisions.



That's the part that pisses me off.  Good people doing good work losing their jobs so rich assholes high up in the company can add an extra 5-10% onto their yearly bonus, it's just not fair.


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## Nordic (Oct 15, 2012)

xenocide said:


> That's the part that pisses me off.  Good people doing good work losing their jobs so rich assholes high up in the company can add an extra 5-10% onto their yearly bonus, it's just not fair.



That is a matter of ethics. Some businesses have them, some don't. We all know what the problems are. Solutions are a far harder to come by. Most proposed solutions I hear seem worse than the problem.


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## xenocide (Oct 15, 2012)

james888 said:


> That is a matter of ethics. Some businesses have them, some don't. We all know what the problems are. Solutions are a far harder to come by. Most proposed solutions I hear seem worse than the problem.



It definitely is a problem here in the West.  I know CEO compensation in the US is ridiculously high compared to other places.  I remember seeing that news special about the Japanese CEO of the biggest airline in Japan, who cut his pay to like the median income of employees within the company, and declined his bonus because the company started doing poorly.  He took the bus to work, ate in the cafeteria with the rest of the employees, and helped out where he could (going as far as answering phones and such even).  You would never see something like that in the United States.  His rationale was; "Why should I be rewarded if the company is doing poorly?"


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## Altered (Oct 15, 2012)

Sad no doubt. I fear the worst but possibly old ATI _could_ come out good depending where or who they end up with. I worked for a huge company that spun off our division. We excelled and made a excellent profitable company out of it. In this case I don't see AMD making it out alive for many reasons already stated. Inferior product, almost zero advertisement, The lack of capital to rebuild/reorganize, lost expertise (fired crucial employees), and even if they over came all of the above it is as obvious as it was with General Motors the ones in charge A. are incompetent or B. dont give a damn. Both of which ultimately run a business in the ground.


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## Aquinus (Oct 15, 2012)

xenocide said:


> It definitely is a problem here in the West.  I know CEO compensation in the US is ridiculously high compared to other places.  I remember seeing that news special about the Japanese CEO of the biggest airline in Japan, who cut his pay to like the median income of employees within the company, and declined his bonus because the company started doing poorly.  He took the bus to work, ate in the cafeteria with the rest of the employees, and helped out where he could (going as far as answering phones and such even).  You would never see something like that in the United States.  His rationale was; "Why should I be rewarded if the company is doing poorly?"



If only every company was like that. The US has this greed complex where the rich always want more and the people who are just getting by struggle and work hard just to make ends meat. This drives me up a wall as well and it is one of the reasons why I enjoy working where I do. I work for a online high school as a System Admin and Developer and I'm the only full-time system admin/developer. (My boss, the CIO is actually only part time. He is finishing up his masters in philosophy, but we just had to go through the process to renew our charter as a charter school in the state of New Hampshire. When the charter renewal committee came in we had to give them access to all of our records and get interviewed by them. In the end we got our renewal without much effort. They also said that VLACS (where I work,) felt less like a workplace and more like a family.

With that said, VLACS has been constantly growing for the last 5 years since the institution was started and has dropped yet. I've been here for 4 years, don't get paid nearly as much as other System Admins and Developers, but you know what? I get  provided a Mac laptop (right now I have a 13" Macbook Air with an Ivy Bridge i5,) I get to work from home half of the week, and the admin chain is small enough where my boss' boss is the end of the food chain.

The other day I found that I was struggling with how much I was getting paid so I took my boss aside and told him that I wanted more. He looked at me and smiled and said, "For the last 2 years I've been vouching for you to get a higher pay." Did they give me exactly what I wanted? No. Did they help me enough to enable me to support both my wife and daughter off my own income. Yes.

That is why big business blows, it doesn't work that way, people get stressed out, and the people who "can't be bothered" with being stressed out takes it out on the people that they don't even know to make their own life better. Where I work, everyone knows everyone, and losing anyone is felt throughout the institution.

I think this is the case for AMD, the problem is that management doesn't understand how much it is harming the institution because they're still living a cushy lifestyle with absolutely no change with how they conduct their lives. While AMD engineers get laid off, benefits cut, and left upstream without a paddle even though they worked hard and did good work.

That is what pisses me off and capitalism will fail for that simple reason. We need a Swedes to tell us how awesome that a generous social welfare state is and how when everyone does well, the country does well.


----------



## largon (Oct 15, 2012)

de.das.dude said:


> and intel paid up for it [illegal rebates] once, if i am not mistaken.


I'd say Intel rather _invested_ in it.


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## FreedomEclipse (Oct 15, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> If only every company was like that. The US has this greed complex where the rich always want more and the people who are just getting by struggle and work hard just to make ends meat. This drives me up a wall as well and it is one of the reasons why I enjoy working where I do. I work for a online high school as a System Admin and Developer and I'm the only full-time system admin/developer. (My boss, the CIO is actually only part time. He is finishing up his masters in philosophy, but we just had to go through the process to renew our charter as a charter school in the state of New Hampshire. When the charter renewal committee came in we had to give them access to all of our records and get interviewed by them. In the end we got our renewal without much effort. They also said that VLACS (where I work,) felt less like a workplace and more like a family.
> 
> With that said, VLACS has been constantly growing for the last 5 years since the institution was started and has dropped yet. I've been here for 4 years, don't get paid nearly as much as other System Admins and Developers, but you know what? I get  provided a Mac laptop (right now I have a 13" Macbook Air with an Ivy Bridge i5,) I get to work from home half of the week, and the admin chain is small enough where my boss' boss is the end of the food chain.
> 
> ...



Fact: you don't know what you've got till its gone.


I hold a small hope that the engineers who do get given the boot will be able to turn the situation around by forming a new company. with 20-30% of the workforce going mainly aimed at designers and engineers, Im sure they can gather enough people to make the whole thing work.

pull together a team of maybe 100-300 people, put all their ideas on the table. any designs that were good, that could have been used by AMD but didnt get the greenlight. then take what they have to some investors and see if they can get some capital to move the ball forward.

But i think that any oldskool ATi employees could possibly hold a lot of influence and sway some of the investors.



30% = hope, 70% = Passion (for doing the thing they love)


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## Aquinus (Oct 15, 2012)

FreedomEclipse said:


> I hold a small hope that the engineers who do get given the boot will be able to turn the situation around by forming a new company. with 20-30% of the workforce going mainly aimed at designers and engineers, Im sure they can gather enough people to make the whole thing work.
> 
> pull together a team of maybe 100-300 people, put all their ideas on the table. any designs that were good, that could have been used by AMD but didnt get the greenlight. then take what they have to some investors and see if they can get some capital to move the ball forward.
> 
> But i think that any oldskool ATi employees could possibly hold a lot of influence and sway some of the investors.



That's a lot of investment resources to start from scratch. Don't forget, AMD still holds the patents and rights on all of ATi's hardware. It would be a hell of an undertaking and you know what? I would support it 100%.


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## FreedomEclipse (Oct 15, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> That's a lot of investment resources to start from scratch. Don't forget, AMD still holds the patents and rights on all of ATi's hardware. It would be a hell of an undertaking and you know what? I would support it 100%.



If some ex-Nokia staff managed to do the exact same thing and come out with a new handset that was based off designs that werent used by Nokia then im sure they could do the same. There has to be loads of ideas or schematics that someone has drawn up but didnt take to the board meeting to be discussed and put into production. engineers/designers don't just 'turn off' when they get home, they might at home but that doesnt mean they wont take pen to paper and come out with something thats totally just awesome. 

who knows?? maybe they took the design to the board meeting and the CEO just laughed and dismissed his idea as it might of taken a complete redesign of the current architectures to work and then some.


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## xenocide (Oct 15, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> If only every company was like that. The US has this greed complex where the rich always want more and the people who are just getting by struggle and work hard just to make ends meat.



I always make it a point to distinguish between Capitalism and _American_ Capitalism for that exact reason.  The way the US operates is completely absurd.  But I am glad you have a great job that you love and is willing to provide for you and your family as needed.  Most people don't even have that.

As for a new competitor in the GPU space, I have severe doubts, but there have definitely historically been companies that start small and combine some of the best talent with the will to make an exceptional product, and the results have been fantastic.


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## Derek12 (Oct 17, 2012)

Like or not, I think SoC are the future, and more probabily ARM ones. That if not embeeded systems.


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## 20mmrain (Oct 17, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> 2006*
> 
> 1. AMD bought out ATI.  They didn't have the resources for it and still don't.  Instead of buying out ATI, they should have put that money into making a better product or a mass marketing campaign.
> 
> 2. Intel released Core 2 Duo which trounced not only everything AMD had available, but everything they planned on releasing too (specifically Phenom/Phenom II).



It's not necessarily that they didn't have the resources to buy ATI..... If they would've bought ATI just to buy ATI things would've been fine. However they bought ATI to work on their CPU/GPU integration among other things.
In the end it was a risky business move and it failed. Businesses do things like that all the time.... and it just wasn't the choice of them buying ATI that made AMD fail. It was several bad business moves over the past few years that made AMD fail.

But that is what you do in business...... take risks!!..... some work out.... other end like this.


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## nt300 (Oct 17, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> That is what pisses me off and capitalism will fail for that simple reason.


Good point, but there a difference between 2 types of capitalism. 

Vulture Capitalism = Government deregulation for the rich so they can exploit the system and get richer while the middle class gets destroyed. 
Capitalism = If ran properly can help list the middleclass and get the poor into middleclass status while the rich continue to live comfortable.


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## os2wiz (Oct 17, 2012)

nt300 said:


> Good point, but there a difference between 2 types of capitalism.
> 
> Vulture Capitalism = Government deregulation for the rich so they can exploit the system and get richer while the middle class gets destroyed.
> Capitalism = If ran properly can help list the middleclass and get the poor into middleclass status while the rich continue to live comfortable.



If water was wine it would make us all happily drunk.  Water is not wine and capitalism naturally gravitates towards monopoly and tyrannical Draconian exploitation of the working class. There is no middle class. There is a petty bourgeoisie that represents small business , shop-keepers who are wannabee capitalists that mostly fail in their enterprise and are driven down into poverty. Economies of scale require capital and that capital concentrates more and more in fewer hands. The driving force is the maximizing of profit. 
Capital Volume I.  Karl Marx. The clarity with which this volume utterly and definitively defines the crisis which is still unfolding should be read by ALL.  It is undeniable truth that capitalism is its own gravedigger

   We need to finish the task by kicking its rotting carcass into its own grave and building an egalitarian world for all those who toil.There is not one ill in the world that is not either a product of capitalism or made vey much worse by capitalism. From malnutrition and starvation in spite of great agricultural land lying fallow and food by the hundreds of metric tons being thrown away to mass unemployment,war, racism, disease and pestilence abounding due to allocation of resources solely for profit instead of for human need.This will all be resolved in the coming generation by world revolution and working class seizure of power.


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## remixedcat (Oct 17, 2012)

AMD should have focused more on desktop CPU and mobile (growing market) and not wasted the money with purchasing ATI then they would have been better off.


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## Nordic (Oct 17, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> If water was wine it would make us all happily drunk.  Water is not wine and capitalism naturally gravitates towards monopoly and tyrannical Draconian exploitation of the working class. There is no middle class. There is a petty bourgeoisie that represents small business , shop-keepers who are wannabee capitalists that mostly fail in their enterprise and are driven down into poverty. Economies of scale require capital and that capital concentrates more and more in fewer hands. The driving force is the maximizing of profit.
> Capital Volume I.  Karl Marx. The clarity with which this volume utterly and definitively defines the crisis which is still unfolding should be read by ALL.  It is undeniable truth that capitalism is its own gravedigger
> 
> We need to finish the task by kicking its rotting carcass into its own grave and building an egalitarian world for all those who toil.There is not one ill in the world that is not either a product of capitalism or made vey much worse by capitalism. From malnutrition and starvation in spite of great agricultural land lying fallow and food by the hundreds of metric tons being thrown away to mass unemployment,war, racism, disease and pestilence abounding due to allocation of resources solely for profit instead of for human need.This will all be resolved in the coming generation by world revolution and working class seizure of power.



Two ways to define egalitarianism. It is defined either as a political doctrine that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights or as a social philosophy advocating the removal of economic inequalities among people or the decentralization of power.

I could be considered an egalitarian because I feel the government has grown too strong and desire to decentralize it. Governments always act in their best interests and slowly drift towards tyrannical draconian exploitation of everyone. You must be of the first definition. You must desire a revolution to take over the government and fix all the problems with force. Would all the wrongs be fixed though? No. Not even the strongest of governments can fix the problems of the worlds no matter what policies they use. You can't end unemployment by saying "Here you go, have a job." It just doesn't work for economic reasons. You can't just say "You will stop being a racist!" because it wont work. You can't stop racism at gunpoint.

We can agree on many problems in our society today. Our monetary, fiscal, and economic policies are so flawed that it does not even have a real foundation to stand on. That needs to be reformed. There are many social issues. Those need to be changed by society not government.

You speak of revolution. I talk with people all over the political spectrum. The anarcho capitalists I talk to speak of revolution also. Both are fringes in the political sphere and only small parts of the whole.


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## os2wiz (Oct 17, 2012)

james888 said:


> Two ways to define egalitarianism. It is defined either as a political doctrine that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights or as a social philosophy advocating the removal of economic inequalities among people or the decentralization of power.
> 
> I could be considered an egalitarian because I feel the government has grown too strong and desire to decentralize it. Governments always act in their best interests and slowly drift towards tyrannical draconian exploitation of everyone. You must be of the first definition. You must desire a revolution to take over the government and fix all the problems with force. Would all the wrongs be fixed though? No. Not even the strongest of governments can fix the problems of the worlds no matter what policies they use. You can't end unemployment by saying "Here you go, have a job." It just doesn't work for economic reasons. You can't just say "You will stop being a racist!" because it wont work. You can't stop racism at gunpoint.
> 
> ...



Don't condescend to marginalize me.Bold leadership with a vision based on well-grounded ideas and practice is always in a class society going to be found in small number. When they through dedication and base-building with those we work and live with over time find traction for their ideas then they can grow from small to large in almost an exponential fashion. That is quantity into quality , a law of dialectics. In your terms call it a quantum leap. It is part of the process of change in nature and in human society as well. We are off topic so I suggest we let this discussion termiinate before moderation steps in.


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## Nordic (Oct 17, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> Don't condescend to marginalize me.Bold leadership with a vision based on well-grounded ideas and practice is always in a class society going to be found in small number. When they through dedication and base-building with those we work and live with over time find traction for their ideas then they can grow from small to large in almost an exponential fashion. That is quantity into quality , a law of dialectics. In your terms call it a quantum leap. It is part of the process of change in nature and in human society as well. We are off topic so I suggest we let this discussion termiinate before moderation steps in.



So _now _you think we are off topic. Instead of asking to discuss this via pm I will pm you.


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## Derek12 (Oct 17, 2012)

remixedcat said:


> AMD should have focused more on desktop CPU and mobile (growing market) and not wasted the money with purchasing ATI then they would have been better off.



True, besides maintaning those huge divisions is costly.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Oct 17, 2012)

without ATi aquistion AMD would have been dead in the water in the mobile space, It is because of the ATi acquisition that they are still viable in that segment to begin with. Desktops are a shrinking market or soon to be so AMD in theory made the right move in aquiring ATi for what they are trying to do.  Should AMD manage to drop power consumption ever further they could enter smartphone market where they would have the edge in GPU power compared to most other companies. Regardless AMD by themselves would be in just a bad of shape without ATi as they are with them Its a rather moot point. Bulldozer has been talked about since 2004 or 2005 long before AMD acquired ATi so in that regard the chip is a fail today buying ATi didnt change that lol.


----------



## BroBQ (Oct 20, 2012)

trickson said:


> I think it is because AMD has lost it edge it once had and is sliding into some kind of weird Over Clocking PR game and NOT giving Intel a real run for it's money.
> AMD should be using every thing they have to retake the lead not just jack up the CPU speed and put out the lames ass shit Over clocking crap they have been doing. All there PR is backfiring on them!



Totally agree!


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## drdeathx (Oct 20, 2012)

2% of the market is enthusiasts. AMD's thought is in the right direction buut it may be too late. They bring in too much revenue to go by the wayside. A bigger entity will scoop them up soon like Microsoft. That is my prediction.


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## Nordic (Oct 20, 2012)

drdeathx said:


> 2% of the market is enthusiasts. AMD's thought is in the right direction buut it may be too late. They bring in too much revenue to go by the wayside. A bigger entity will scoop them up soon like Microsoft. That is my prediction.



Then we might get Amd optimized hardware...


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## drdeathx (Oct 20, 2012)

james888 said:


> Then we might get Amd optimized hardware...



What about Apple?


----------



## Super XP (Oct 20, 2012)

drdeathx said:


> What about Apple?


I hope not, or it's no more buying AMD for me if Apple buys them.


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## user21 (Oct 20, 2012)

lame...


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 20, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> Don't condescend to marginalize me.Bold leadership with a vision based on well-grounded ideas and practice is always in a class society going to be found in small number. When they through dedication and base-building with those we work and live with over time find traction for their ideas then they can grow from small to large in almost an exponential fashion. That is quantity into quality , a law of dialectics. In your terms call it a quantum leap. It is part of the process of change in nature and in human society as well. We are off topic so I suggest we let this discussion termiinate before moderation steps in.



way to go off topic. Didn't know this thread said "Political Convention!". I feel like you just went online and found something "smart" sounding and copied and pasted it.


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## trickson (Oct 20, 2012)

Why the fuck would AMD want to do this? I just do not get it! They are the best video card GPU makers in the world! TO see AMD strip them like this or even cut the work force of ATI is more than a shame! It is a reflection of just where AMD is going. It is a reflection of how fucked up the CEO's of AMD really are! Pure FUCKING DIPSHITTERY! IMHO! If I were AMD I would be pumping up the video card sector and cranking up R&D! What the hell???!!!


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## anubis44 (Oct 20, 2012)

Phusius said:


> i like boobs



Hey! This is a casual chat forum. No need to shower us with such complex rhetoric!


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## Nordic (Oct 20, 2012)

drdeathx said:


> What about Apple?





Super XP said:


> I hope not, or it's no more buying AMD for me if Apple buys them.



Could the apple factor make amd go mainstream? Just because it is apple you know.

General geeks are not wooed by apple. Amd hate threads would take to a new level also.

What about samsung?


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## DaedalusHelios (Oct 20, 2012)

james888 said:


> Could the apple factor make amd go mainstream? Just because it is apple you know.
> 
> General geeks are not wooed by apple. Amd hate threads would take to a new level also.
> 
> What about samsung?



Given Samsung's reputation I think that would be great for AMD to be bought by them. I remember reading somewhere that Samsung is the most trusted brand in the American electronics market.


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## Nordic (Oct 20, 2012)

Nevermind samsung. Apple will sue them for a patent infringement.


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## Phusius (Oct 20, 2012)

AMD is not finished just yet folks.  Keep the buyout talks on the down low.


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## Nordic (Oct 20, 2012)

I got it. Ati will buy amd...


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## DaedalusHelios (Oct 20, 2012)

Phusius said:


> AMD is not finished just yet folks.  Keep the buyout talks on the down low.



Of course it's not finished. It is a zombie. I just want to see it reach its potential again. Right now it is the homeless guy living in a tent just begging for another chance at life. IBM and Samsung could give it that must needed revenue to really succeed again.



james888 said:


> I got it. Ati will buy amd...



A subsidiary can't buy a parent company. Or were you just joking?


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## Nordic (Oct 20, 2012)

Ati could then make agu's. Advanced graphical units with heterogeneous gpu cpu design.


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## anubis44 (Oct 20, 2012)

james888 said:


> Could the apple factor make amd go mainstream? Just because it is apple you know.
> 
> General geeks are not wooed by apple. Amd hate threads would take to a new level also.
> 
> What about samsung?



Apple could make the most use of AMD of any possible investor/merger partner/buyer. 

AMD already has more experience with fusing GPUs and CPUs than any other company in the world, and that's what Apple needs to do to differentiate their ARM designs from others. AMD, with Apple's massive cash pile, could also once and for all vanquish Intel in x86 processor design - they'd actually have a LARGER R&D budget than Intel! And even if Intel could somehow revoke the x86 processor license, a merged AMD/Apple juggernaut would simply design 64 bit ARM-based cpus. (Not to mention, Apple would also get Jim Keller back!) Basically, Apple could sew up the entire computing gamut from the smallest smart phone to the world's fastest x86/GPU-accelerated supercomputers. But because this would finally once and for all guarantee Apple's final victory over Microsoft, Intel, Google and Samsung, and vindicate the perceived wrongs perpetrated against Steve Jobs, and cement Apple's dominance as the world's technological overlord for at least an entire generation, and guarantee that the iconic Apple logo would be visible on most of the devices, tablets, notebooks, desktops, and supercomputers we'll see in everyday life.... it probably won't happen! Still, it would be the smartest 'check-mate' move for Apple to make (they could buy AMD with pocket change right now and barely feel it) and certainly, Rory Read's clearing of the decks (layoffs to thin the company out) could be congruent with a preparation for a merger...

Really, my favourite scenario is an AMD/nVidia merger, so that Jen Hsun and the AMD team can take the fight directly to Intel using Steamroller x86 cores and AMD/nVidia optimized graphics cards/APUs. This would be the most dramatic and satisfying scenario for AMD. nVidia has enough money in cash to properly finance the next generation of x86 processor cores (as well as next gen ARM/fusion designs). Finally (and yes, I'm aware of the price implications of this), a combined AMD/nVidia would have a lock on the dedicated graphics card market, which would give them the money to finance their future together against Intel and other opponents.

As much as I have had issues with nVidia over the years, I see this as dramatically better than an AMD bankruptcy.


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## DaedalusHelios (Oct 20, 2012)

But anubis44, Intel still has better engineers for x86 designs. Money means something, but not everything. Intel has been buying the best and brightest for quite some time now. Are you saying they would somehow be able to get them from Intel by paying them ridiculous sums of money? I would imagine most enter a lengthy contract that would have to be bought out. Also remember Apple is focused on the emerging market and not x86 desktops. Perhaps you are saying ARM mini-desktops?

I could see Apple buy it just for patent rape of other companies though.


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## Nordic (Oct 20, 2012)

DaedalusHelios said:


> I could see Apple buy it just for patent rape of other companies though.



Apple is such a patent pedophile.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 20, 2012)

DaedalusHelios said:


> But anubis44, Intel still has better engineers for x86 designs. Money means something, but not everything. Intel has been buying the best and brightest for quite some time now. Are you saying they would somehow be able to get them from Intel by paying them ridiculous sums of money? I would imagine most enter a lengthy contract that would have to be bought out. Also remember Apple is focused on the emerging market and not x86 desktops. Perhaps you are saying ARM mini-desktops?
> 
> I could see Apple buy it just for patent rape of other companies though.



Dude, AMD has some of the best for x86/x64 (Or did lol). Who do you think produced the first successful 64 bit CPUs? Definitely wasn't Intel, as their Itaniums failed horribly. Now with every Intel CPU being sold AMD is making money of them because it uses AMDs basic 64 bit architecture, and Intel is paying the license fees.


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## DaedalusHelios (Oct 20, 2012)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Dude, AMD has some of the best for x86/x64 (Or did lol). Who do you think produced the first successful 64 bit CPUs? Definitely wasn't Intel, as their Itaniums failed horribly. Now with every Intel CPU being sold AMD is making money of them because it uses AMDs basic 64 bit architecture, and Intel is paying the license fees.



We all know that. Most also know Intel has been buying up all the talent in the last 5 years or so. They stack their dev teams like the Yankees stacks rosters. I am not really a fan of that in baseball so I stopped watching baseball about a decade ago. My point is that history teaches you that Intel was doing great long before they had the best offerings. Now that they also have the best tech in x86 they obviously have an extreme advantage. Not to mention having most of the market feeding their coffers. Even if Intel didn't have the best tech they would still be making more thanks to superior negotiating skills. So much so that the EU extorted money from them. Remember that money grab? I am surprised the EU hasn't done it to Apple yet.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 20, 2012)

i could see Google Doing the IP stuff. But i dont think AMD is going down whether CPU or GPU division


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## DaedalusHelios (Oct 20, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> i could see Google Doing the IP stuff. *But i dont think AMD is going down whether CPU or GPU division*



I hope you are right. And GPU wise they are doing great. Its the x86 I am worried about.


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## _JP_ (Oct 20, 2012)

james888 said:


> Apple is such a patent pedophile.


Since when have patents got anything to do with children?


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Oct 20, 2012)

Imho Amd's gfx division will be fine , they are unlikely to cull anything they need imho, all these companys are up against the wall at the minute becuase no ones buying its that simple, to make more drama of it isnt required,,, Amd leads the way in something yet again, market awareness.



DaedalusHelios said:


> I hope you are right. And GPU wise they are doing great. Its the x86 I am worried about.



worry not x86 is not going to stop working on Amd stuff and peoples interest in high Ipc confuses me as even the most ardent bench tester probably still watches more telly/ games and surfs more on their Pc then they run Pi, and they work fine.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Oct 20, 2012)

DaedalusHelios said:


> I hope you are right. And GPU wise they are doing great. Its the x86 I am worried about.



AMD is doing fine. Maybe not in the enthusiast market and desktop CPU market, but AMD's focus hasn't been desktop performance crown for the last year or 2 and it makes sense. Desktops aren't going to be mainstream that much longer. ITs going to be laptops, tablets, and phones. Theres a reason why AMD has been pushing these APUs, and are successful at it. Also on the enterprise front in servers and such, they are doing pretty well. People don't know what they are talking about when they say AMD is going under or are in trouble.


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## Super XP (Oct 20, 2012)

AMD will continue to succeed in Servers, APU's and Graphics, while still staying competitive in the desktop space. My only concern is the decisions the company is making as of late.
IMHO, AMD is not going under, is not going to be merged anytime soon. AMD was at one point in the past in very hard times with a stock price of less than $1.50. About a year later (Athlon 64 era I believe) that stock price ballooned to over $40 per share. 

I can see AMD coming back with a vengeance in around 2013-2014 when it's Steamroller tech has a chance to circulate within the channels and Excavator adding to that success. APU's are going to play a massive role in computers, especially with how crazy expandable its module CPU design is.


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## os2wiz (Oct 20, 2012)

Super XP said:


> AMD will continue to succeed in Servers, APU's and Graphics, while still staying competitive in the desktop space. My only concern is the decisions the company is making as of late.
> IMHO, AMD is not going under, is not going to be merged anytime soon. AMD was at one point in the past in very hard times with a stock price of less than $1.50. About a year later (Athlon 64 era I believe) that stock price ballooned to over $40 per share.
> 
> I can see AMD coming back with a vengeance in around 2013-2014 when it's Steamroller tech has a chance to circulate within the channels and Excavator adding to that success. APU's are going to play a massive role in computers, especially with how crazy expandable its module CPU design is.



 In a sense you are correct, but we are mired in the first global depression in 80 years. It is not going away soon and is in fact intensifying. It is possible that AMD and a whole host of other corporations in various industries may eventually go under. I hope not , because we definitely need somebody to put the heat on Intel's monopoly and overpricing of cpus and chipsets. But their is a systemic reality out there that is very negative and not disappearing anytime soon.


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## Radical_Edward (Oct 20, 2012)

I like AMD, hope they pull their heads out of their asses and get things going right again. To loose their GPU department would be stupid at this point. 

If AMD does go down I'd be ready for Intel chip pricing to go up at least 30%.


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## DaedalusHelios (Oct 21, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> In a sense you are correct, but we are mired in the first global depression in 80 years. It is not going away soon and is in fact intensifying. It is possible that AMD and a whole host of other corporations in various industries may eventually go under. I hope not , because we definitely need somebody to put the heat on Intel's monopoly and overpricing of cpus and chipsets. But their is a systemic reality out there that is very negative and not disappearing anytime soon.



The United States is recovering. Certain EU countries are having serious trouble. Brazil is set to have serious growth when the Interoceanic Highway gets completed. They will be the bread basket of China(their food source). For the EU they may be facing just a little bit of global equilibrium coming into effect since they are getting screwed by Russian oil agreements and Chinese trade agreements at the same time. Its a gang bang, grab some popcorn.


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## Nordic (Oct 21, 2012)

This thread got derailed by a bit of politics in my opinion. I made a thread in general nonsense to discuss that aspect. http://www.generalnonsense.net/showthread.php?t=10231


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## os2wiz (Oct 21, 2012)

DaedalusHelios said:


> The United States is recovering. Certain EU countries are having serious trouble. Brazil is set to have serious growth when the Interoceanic Highway gets completed. They will be the bread basket of China(their food source). For the EU they may be facing just a little bit of global equilibrium coming into effect since they are getting screwed by Russian oil agreements and Chinese trade agreements at the same time. Its a gang bang, grab some popcorn.



  Not true, the Great Depression lasted 13 years and during it there were a few years where some similar anemic recovery came and then relapsed to the bottom again. The so called recovery actually has the number of people without jobs steadily increasing, as they cook the books by having the labor force contracting to make it like those without jobs don't want jobs so they are no longer unemployed. During the Great Depression unemployment reached 25% but they did NOT play the same game with numbers back then. Everyone who couldn't find work or wanted a job was counted. After WW II to make it look like there was full employment they changed the rules by NOT counting you as unemployed  unless you were actively seeking work every week of every month. You would magically somehow disappear from the statistics. Those who work a 14 or 20 hour week part-time job were considered employed even though they could NOT obtain a full time job and desired one.  The actual unemployment figures are approximately double of what the "official" lies the government broadcasts. Those college student s who graduate and can't find work are not counted. Those whose unemployment benefits have expired after a year are NOT counted.  There are 24 million people who are really unemployed in the US. The true unemployment rater is 18%. Even in "good" times unemployment has never actually gone below 7% of the actual labor force. In Spain they keep quite accurate unemployment numbers , not doctored ones like here. Their unemployment rate is now 24 %

  Live with the truth or die by its sword!


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## os2wiz (Oct 21, 2012)

When I replied I did NOT see James888 post.  Sorry.


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## erocker (Oct 21, 2012)

os2wiz said:


> When I replied I did NOT see James888 post.  Sorry.



I'll give you some time to copy and paste it over on the other thread before deleting it. This thread has gone off topic enough.


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## os2wiz (Oct 21, 2012)

you have been more than fair.  Thank you.


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## os2wiz (Oct 21, 2012)

anubis44 said:


> Apple could make the most use of AMD of any possible investor/merger partner/buyer.
> 
> AMD already has more experience with fusing GPUs and CPUs than any other company in the world, and that's what Apple needs to do to differentiate their ARM designs from others. AMD, with Apple's massive cash pile, could also once and for all vanquish Intel in x86 processor design - they'd actually have a LARGER R&D budget than Intel! And even if Intel could somehow revoke the x86 processor license, a merged AMD/Apple juggernaut would simply design 64 bit ARM-based cpus. (Not to mention, Apple would also get Jim Keller back!) Basically, Apple could sew up the entire computing gamut from the smallest smart phone to the world's fastest x86/GPU-accelerated supercomputers. But because this would finally once and for all guarantee Apple's final victory over Microsoft, Intel, Google and Samsung, and vindicate the perceived wrongs perpetrated against Steve Jobs, and cement Apple's dominance as the world's technological overlord for at least an entire generation, and guarantee that the iconic Apple logo would be visible on most of the devices, tablets, notebooks, desktops, and supercomputers we'll see in everyday life.... it probably won't happen! Still, it would be the smartest 'check-mate' move for Apple to make (they could buy AMD with pocket change right now and barely feel it) and certainly, Rory Read's clearing of the decks (layoffs to thin the company out) could be congruent with a preparation for a merger...
> 
> ...



  Sounds interesting , but I do NOT want another insidious monopolist to be created. I would like an invigorated AMD with capital from Apple and Samsung  to remain an independent entity. perhaps alliances , yes but not dependence.


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## anubis44 (Oct 23, 2012)

DaedalusHelios said:


> But anubis44, Intel still has better engineers for x86 designs. Money means something, but not everything. Intel has been buying the best and brightest for quite some time now. Are you saying they would somehow be able to get them from Intel by paying them ridiculous sums of money? I would imagine most enter a lengthy contract that would have to be bought out. Also remember Apple is focused on the emerging market and not x86 desktops. Perhaps you are saying ARM mini-desktops?
> 
> I could see Apple buy it just for patent rape of other companies though.



You're right that Intel does have formidable engineers. No question about that.

However, AMD still has a few superstars, and just recently got back probably the single best x86 processor engineer in the world: Jim Keller. In addition, AMD has made the right move and made Keller 'Chief Architect, Microprocessor Cores':

http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/JimKellerJoinsAMD-2012aug01.aspx

This guy designed the AMD Athlon 64 and AMD Opteron chips back in 2003-2005. He has now been given essentially all the resources of AMD placed at his disposal. He is free to design whatever he likes and to hire whomever he wants. It's true AMD has less money and fewer resources than Intel, but let's be serious here. We are still talking about a multi-billion dollar company, and I don't think Mr. Keller's request to bring on board whoever he needs to round out his CPU design team will be turned down. If you'll excuse the analogy, it's a little bit like Luke Skywalker joining the Rebel Alliance. Yes, he's one guy, but... no kidding, if you only had pick for your x86 CPU team, he's the number one draft pick. 

The forces arrayed against AMD may be formidable, but a few super-brilliant engineers like Keller can change the game, even against a 'galactic empire' like Intel, as we've already seen briefly in 2003-2006. I for one would love to see a repeat performance!


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## os2wiz (Oct 23, 2012)

anubis44 said:


> You're right that Intel does have formidable engineers. No question about that.
> 
> However, AMD still has a few superstars, and just recently got back probably the single best x86 processor engineer in the world: Jim Keller. In addition, AMD has made the right move and made Keller 'Chief Architect, Microprocessor Cores':
> 
> ...



  Extremely interesting and thought provoking post. This certainly gives reason for optimism
and puts to rest the thread "AMD throws in the towel"


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