# Bulldozer, AM3 or new socket?



## Fourstaff (May 30, 2010)

Just wondering what you guys think, because I have received conflicting information. I have heard that Bulldozer is a new architecture, therefore new platform. I have also heard that it is going to be compatible with AM3, because AM3 is still quite new. Links to sources will be welcome


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## JrRacinFan (May 30, 2010)

I myself heard it's also going to be a completely new socket.


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## lyndonguitar (May 30, 2010)

I think you got the conflicting infos from my thread right? anyway, I think its a new socket because, Intel changed its sockets so AMD also will probably do it.


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## cadaveca (May 30, 2010)

Both? 

Seriously though, here's the info you are looking for:



> In 2011 we get Bulldozer and it comes in the form of the Zambezi CPU (AMD’s codenames are such fun). You’ll see four and eight core versions of Zambezi. Both will support DDR3 and both will work in Socket-AM3. Obviously guaranteeing motherboard support this early in the game is difficult, but AMD is usually good about maintaining socket compatibility. You may be able to slip a Zambezi into your current day Socket-AM3 motherboards.



http://www.anandtech.com/show/2871/2

My own info says support for up to 1866mhz mem, too.


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## wahdangun (May 30, 2010)

but usually desktop part was based from opteron and current opteron use new socket(because use quad chanel ram).

so if what u saying is true then Bulldozer will be not released in server or doesn't have opteron counterpart


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## cadaveca (May 30, 2010)

Next Opteron Socket will be Mangy-Cours...quad channel mem. That will form the new socket, AFAIK, while AM3 still has a gen of cpus left to go. Kinda like AM2+ and AM3 now...

So, 8c8t Zamezi might go into Opteron, in new socket, but AMD very purposefully re-uses sockets, and has two in use at any given time, so sockets don't have short upgrade life.


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## wahdangun (May 30, 2010)

so that's mean amd will still use dual Chanel MC in bulldozer ?

Btw magny Mangy-Cours have been released


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## _JP_ (May 30, 2010)

I can only see it with a new socket, because even if it were with the same socket but a new revision (say AM3+ or AM4), the CPUs would have to have a big architectural redesign in order to support all of the new technology in it. 
AMD is planning to integrate a GPU in the chip plus a PCI-e controller and new RAM controller, thus following Intel's innovations. But Intel saw that the current sockets wouldn't suffice so new ones had to be made. Also the architectural design of the chips had to be different.


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## cadaveca (May 30, 2010)

wahdangun said:


> so that's mean amd will still use dual Chanel MC in bulldozer ?
> 
> Btw magny Mangy-Cours have been released



I cannot answer that, but ganged/unganged makes me think it's more than possible to get quad channel on AM3.

And as Mangy-Cours is already out, I do not understand confusion about this. I mean, Mangy-Cours was out in April...

Well ,actually, I do understand, but it seems most likely that maybe Zambezi will be early as well...unless Zambezi needs some sort of major change to improve performance. But at this point I am very confident, as many people were not thinking Thuban would debut so early as well, so only AMD knows exactly what is coming when...but I do not expect any socket changes in the desktop space until next year, with Mangy-Cours in desktop form. AM3 will straddle this socket, and then begin to be phased out completely in 2012.


I don't think Thuban actually has a long life-span. But it's not like I got insider info or anything lke that...the only difference between me and msot other info sources is that I read all tech propaganda, and also listen to/attend investor meetings and the like. Investors get better info than media...


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## Fourstaff (May 30, 2010)

lyndonrakista said:


> I think you got the conflicting infos from my thread right? anyway, I think its a new socket because, Intel changed its sockets so AMD also will probably do it.



Yes, it from your thread. Personally, I think its going to be a new socket, because sticking with AM3 will somewhat hold back the Bulldozer. However, if rumors such as "bulldozer targets mainstream" are true, then I think it might well be in AM3.

Edit: @cadaveca I have read the Anandtech article, but I am still not convinced.


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## wahdangun (May 30, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> I cannot answer that, but ganged/unganged makes me think it's more than possible to get quad channel on AM3.
> 
> And as Mangy-Cours is already out, I do not understand confusion about this. I mean, Mangy-Cours was out in April...
> 
> ...




yeah, but i'm torn apart, in one side i want to see bulldozer but other side of me said 12 Core would be rock  

but in the end a new socket or not won't effect me because i will buy new board when what-ever CPU will be released.


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## FordGT90Concept (May 30, 2010)

Bulldozer will have a GPU integrated into it.  An integrated GPU means it needs pins for the display.  More pins means new socket.  I also highly doubt the new socket will have any DDR2 support which would greatly simplify the memory controller design.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (May 30, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Bulldozer will have a GPU integrated into it.  An integrated GPU means it needs pins for the display.  More pins means new socket.  I also highly doubt the new socket will have any DDR2 support which would greatly simplify the memory controller design.



No reason to retain DDR2 support at this point.  Will support DDR3 only.


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## TheMailMan78 (May 30, 2010)

My money is on a new socket.



cadaveca said:


> I don't think Thuban actually has a long life-span. But it's not like I got insider info or anything lke that...the only difference between me and msot other info sources is that I read all tech propaganda, and also listen to/attend investor meetings and the like. *Investors get better info than media*...


 Yeah says who? I'm an investor in AMD. 14k worth and I never hear shit.


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## jagd (May 30, 2010)

AMD clearly told desktop parts of buldoser family will use AM3 socket .We will hear more things in 3 months i think 
TPU news http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108095
for lazy ones  
"It is in 2011, that processors up to 8 cores, based on the Bulldozer architecture, start to appear. AMD went as far as to disclose that the enthusiast-grade processor carrying the codename "Zambezi" will continue to come in the AM3 package, so now it is clear that the socket has a long road ahead. "

Page 9 at pdf
http://sites.amd.com/us/Documents/FAD_2009_Platform_and_Processor_Roadmaps.pdf

Edit :Bulldozer is cpu only ,Llano is cpu+gpu one


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## TheMailMan78 (May 30, 2010)

jagd said:


> AMD clearly told desktop parts of buldoser family will use AM3 socket .We will hear more things in 3 months i think
> TPU news http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108095
> for lazy ones
> "It is in 2011, that processors up to 8 cores, based on the Bulldozer architecture, start to appear. AMD went as far as to disclose that the enthusiast-grade processor carrying the codename "Zambezi" will continue to come in the AM3 package, so now it is clear that the socket has a long road ahead. "
> ...



I'm not sure it reads that way. 

I could be looking to far into it but it almost sounds like the Zambezi is in fact not part of the 8 core CPU based off of the Bulldozer and is in fact the last installment of the K10.


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## jagd (May 30, 2010)

Zambezi is codename for desktop bulldozer parts (bulldozer is codename for new cpu architecture including server/desktop/notebook ones) 


TheMailMan78 said:


> I'm not sure it reads that way.
> 
> I could be looking to far into it but it almost sounds like the Zambezi is in fact not part of the 8 core CPU based off of the Bulldozer and is in fact the last installment of the K10.


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## TheMailMan78 (May 30, 2010)

jagd said:


> Zambezi is codename for desktop bulldozer parts (bulldozer is codename for new cpu architecture including server/desktop/notebook ones)



I re-read the pdf you posted and you are 100% correct. I can run AM3 socket CPUs on my board but I doubt Bulldozer will have DDR2 support.


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## cadaveca (May 30, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> My money is on a new socket.
> 
> Yeah says who? I'm an investor in AMD. 14k worth and I never hear shit.



 You must not attend or listen to the meetings then. I was one of few people saying AMD was gonna buy ATI when everyone else said no. I thoroughly enjoyed that period of time...



FordGT90Concept said:


> Bulldozer will have a GPU integrated into it.  An integrated GPU means it needs pins for the display.  More pins means new socket.  I also highly doubt the new socket will have any DDR2 support which would greatly simplify the memory controller design.




You mean Bobcat and Llano? Llano is the intergrated gpu part, will be both in desktops and notebooks. Bobcat is specialized low-power part.



Fourstaff said:


> Edit: @cadaveca I have read the Anandtech article, but I am still not convinced.



Just read the link I posted, and see that there was a news article here as well on this stuff...it's actual info direct from AMD, but is also about 6 months old, so things might have been adjusted a bit. The actual product info, and plans for chipset/etc, is basically set in stone as this point, as it takes a couple of years to develop this sort of stuff...any product coming in the next two years has been in progress for some time now, so really isn't up for speculation, except on final performance, and launch date. The actual product families will remain regardless. I mean, I knew launch date of 890FX and Thuban...why? I wasn't the only one, either....


Also, Mailman, having 14K in stock doesn't make you an investor. The fact you DON'T have info clearly says this. The investors are the driving force for the company(which is true of any company). Investors=voting shares. Not that I am an investor, but a fly on the wall.


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## erocker (May 30, 2010)

Everything I've seen so far leads me to believe it will be AM3. Here, straight from AMD:







It will most likely be AM3. Socket doesn't make much of a difference in this case. I find the poll results funny but typical.


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## TVman (May 30, 2010)

where do people get the idea that there is going do be a new socket for bulldozer? seriosly any links or your pulling that out of you ass ?


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## wahdangun (May 30, 2010)

so this mean we will not get 12 core quad chanel CPU, instead we get bulldozer thats still AM3 ?


EDIT:
@TVMAN : because usually AMD  desktop part was based on server, and right now, opteron use new socket for quad chanel (just like shanghai a server version of deneb). so it's only natural if we assumed that next amd cpu use different socket


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## TVman (May 30, 2010)

wahdangun said:


> so this mean we will not get 12 core quad chanel CPU, instead we get bulldozer thats still AM3 ?
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> @TVMAN : because usually AMD  desktop part was based on server, and right now, opteron use new socket for quad chanel (just like shanghai a server version of deneb). so it's only natural if we assumed that next amd cpu use different socket



thats what i expected just wild quessing without any real data  not trying to troll just dont like people saying shit without any real evidents *cough*_Mr.Pachter_*cough*


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## MilkyWay (May 30, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I re-read the pdf you posted and you are 100% correct. I can run AM3 socket CPUs on my board but I doubt Bulldozer will have DDR2 support.



AM3 cpus are backwards compatible because of the memory controller, also to do with the number of pins. Ah but you know that.

I guess it will be a new mem controller so that it can run DDR3 over 1333mhz without overclocking. I mean i can do higher on my board but its technically overclocking over 1333mhz.


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## manchesterutd81 (May 30, 2010)

i think they have to change things up... like kierand said ddr3 at 1333mhz isn't going to cut it... i want a whole new chip i want a whole new board to take advantage of faster ram, faster gpu, and a faster chip that can eat through anything... Even space and time.. i want it to open a worm hole up and suck me into the matrix... 

But seriously as an AMD enthusiasts don't we want to see change and something new to tinker with..?

josh


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## Lionheart (May 30, 2010)

manchesterutd81 said:


> i think they have to change things up... like kierand said ddr3 at 1333mhz isn't going to cut it... i want a whole new chip i want a whole new board to take advantage of faster ram, faster gpu, and a faster chip that can eat through anything... Even space and time.. i want it to open a worm hole up and suck me into the matrix...
> 
> But seriously as an AMD enthusiasts don't we want to see change and something new to tinker with..?
> 
> josh



I agree


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## Fourstaff (May 30, 2010)

I think we pretty much established that Bulldozer going to use AM3, now then, will it need a new mobo or we can use the current 8xx mobo's to power them?


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## Dent1 (May 30, 2010)

Fourstaff said:


> I think we pretty much established that Bulldozer going to use AM3, now then, will it need a new mobo or we can use the current 8xx mobo's to power them?



I believe that there might be 2 versions of the bulldozer.

I think there wil be a high end Phenom with integrated GPU featured on a new socket and lowend Athlon/Sempron version without the integrated GPU which will have AM2+AM3 support.

^ That is the best way to implement some backward compatibility whilst still moving forward.


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## manchesterutd81 (May 30, 2010)

Fourstaff said:


> I think we pretty much established that Bulldozer going to use AM3, now then, will it need a new mobo or we can use the current 8xx mobo's to power them?



Ok given that... I have to have a larger MOB,,,,, seriously.. a fool would want to keep these small MOB.... I need more space... i have 2 sapphire 4870X2 and they block the other ports for me to have a killer sound card or anything else i want to use...   The next boards better be larger which i do believe they are going to be... but take people like me into consideration... i just put my rig together less than a month and i already want a HAF X and a larger board... but i wont do it until i can fit 2 5xxxX2 series cards with arctic fans on it and have more room to play with in my case.

I hope the next mob for amd has something up its sleeve and makes use of all the new chips powers!

josh


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## Fourstaff (May 30, 2010)

You have the Crosshair IV and you are complaining that you don't have enough space?!


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## manchesterutd81 (May 30, 2010)

Fourstaff said:


> You have the Crosshair IV and you are complaining that you don't have enough space?!



Yes, yes I am complaining..

I know I sound like a fool but, i want a sound card and i have no way of shoehorning it in,,,

Is there a bigger board I'm not aware of...


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## cadaveca (May 30, 2010)

Dent1 said:


> I believe that there might be 2 versions of the bulldozer.
> 
> I think there wil be a high end Phenom with integrated GPU featured on a new socket and lowend Athlon/Sempron version without the integrated GPU which will have AM2+AM3 support.
> 
> ^ That is the best way to implement some backward compatibility whilst still moving forward.



Bulldozer is the core without a gpu. The core with a gpu is Llano.



manchesterutd81 said:


> i think they have to change things up... like kierand said ddr3 at 1333mhz isn't going to cut it... i want a whole new chip i want a whole new board to take advantage of faster ram, faster gpu, and a faster chip that can eat through anything... Even space and time.. i want it to open a worm hole up and suck me into the matrix...
> 
> But seriously as an AMD enthusiasts don't we want to see change and something new to tinker with..?
> 
> josh



Again, Zambezi should have mem support up to 1866 mhz. Thuban shows that this is more than possible(Over 2000mhz has been shown so far). We are jsut waiting on JEDEC for better specs.

And on that note, we just got thuban a month ago. Tinker with that until the next cpus are released.


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## Fourstaff (May 30, 2010)

manchesterutd81 said:


> Yes, yes I am complaining..
> 
> I know I sound like a fool but, i want a sound card and i have no way of shoehorning it in,,,
> 
> Is there a bigger board I'm not aware of...



What? Crosshair 4 have 7 expansion slots the last time I took a look at them. 4870X2 takes 2, so 2 of them takes 4. that still leave you with 3 more, unless they magically disappear?


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## cadaveca (May 30, 2010)

Fourstaff said:


> What? Crosshair 4 have 7 expansion slots the last time I took a look at them. 4870X2 takes 2, so 2 of them takes 4. that still leave you with 3 more, unless they magically disappear?



Eyefinity needs more than 3 Cypress gpus, and CH4 Formula doesn't support 3 and a sound card. Extreme will support 4 gpus...but a sound card? Probably not all at the same time. I want 10 slot boards too.


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## Fourstaff (May 30, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> Eyefinity needs more than 3 Cypress gpus, and CH4 Formula doesn't support 3 and a sound card. Extreme will support 4 gpus...but a sound card? Probably not all at the same time. I want 10 slot boards too.



2x5970s, and egg tells me that the CH4 can take in 4 PCIe  

More than enough space if you ask me.


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## manchesterutd81 (May 30, 2010)

Fourstaff said:


> What? Crosshair 4 have 7 expansion slots the last time I took a look at them. 4870X2 takes 2, so 2 of them takes 4. that still leave you with 3 more, unless they magically disappear?



   now if you can find a spot ill put it in    






Shot at 2010-05-26






Shot at 2010-05-27





Shot at 2010-05-26




LOL all in good fun


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## manchesterutd81 (May 30, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> Eyefinity needs more than 3 Cypress gpus, and CH4 Formula doesn't support 3 and a sound card. Extreme will support 4 gpus...but a sound card? Probably not all at the same time. I want 10 slot boards too.



Yes 10 or more... i hate that this is the future and my first build in like 10yrs and i ran out of space on the baddest MOB out there.... 

DARN YOU FUTURE TECHNOLOGY!!!


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## erocker (May 30, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> Eyefinity needs more than 3 Cypress gpus, and CH4 Formula doesn't support 3 and a sound card. Extreme will support 4 gpus...but a sound card? Probably not all at the same time. I want 10 slot boards too.



Onboard sound on the CH4 is actually the best onboard I've ever used if that's good for anything. I am pleasantly surprised with it.


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## Fourstaff (May 30, 2010)

That's unfair, you didn't tell me you were using aftermarket coolers!  Your rigs look very good though.


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## cadaveca (May 30, 2010)

erocker said:


> Onboard sound on the CH4 is actually the best onboard I've ever used if that's good for anything. I am pleasantly surprised with it.



Actually, you are very right, and most onboard "soundcards" today are almost equivalent to add-in cards, at least 100% feature-wise.

However, to get DoblyHD or DTS HD over HDM istill currently requires an add-in card. I'd love to be able to get an HTPC that can game in HD as well...


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## manchesterutd81 (May 30, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> Actually, you are very right, and most onboard "soundcards" today are almost equivalent to add-in cards, at least 100% feature-wise.
> 
> However, to get DoblyHD or DTS HD over HDM istill currently requires an add-in card. I'd love to be able to get an HTPC that can game in HD as well...



But see im over the top so i want a Fatal1ty Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Professional Series sound card... i think its awesome and will fill up one of my drives like no other... here is a shot of the rig from the front... i have a Aerocool 1000 and a Scythe fan controller on the way they are both single bay ones, dont know which one i will pick to keep once i  see them in the bay... but i still want a blue ray and all bays filled when i am done







Shot at 2010-05-27


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## erocker (May 30, 2010)

manchesterutd81 said:


> But see im over the top so i want a Fatal1ty Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Professional Series sound card... i think its awesome and will fill up one of my drives like no other... here is a shot of the rig from the front... i have a Aerocool 1000 and a Scythe fan controller on the way they are both single bay ones, dont know which one i will pick to keep once i  see them in the bay... but i still want a blue ray and all bays filled when i am done
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Show your stuff in the PC ATM thread or the case gallery. Let's keep on topic.  Your cards are beasts btw!


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## manchesterutd81 (May 31, 2010)

ok ok, sorry,,, ok well back on topic... will the new chip force new changes in MOB...? I think so.. I hope so... i really do... I want a larger board and less need to push the board to work with my ddr3 2000.

josh


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## TVman (May 31, 2010)

well the memory controller is on the cpu not on the motherboard....so it is not the motherboards fault,it is the memory controllers fault!!!,and the bigger mobo wish is just stupid. i mean seriosly dont get 2 3 slot cards if you want space in your computer


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## manchesterutd81 (May 31, 2010)

TVman said:


> well the memory controller is on the cpu not on the motherboard....so it is not the motherboards fault,it is the memory controllers fault!!!,and the bigger mobo wish is just stupid. i mean seriosly dont get 2 3 slot cards if you want space in your computer




Its in companies best intrest to allow me to have dual-tri-quad-or X-? fired cards...Mo-money and more FUN!

If i could do dual X6 with like 4 4870X2 i would.. but they dont make a crossfire bridges for MOB... do they?

But i degress back to the point... i would need to dream of try to hook 2 MOB up if they would just give me a larger MOB and engineer a whole new chip that is worthy of 2010 and till the end of the Mayan Calender... or maybe thats how the time ends... AMD gives us the key


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## TheMailMan78 (May 31, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> Actually, you are very right, and most onboard "soundcards" today are almost equivalent to add-in cards, at least 100% feature-wise.
> 
> However, to get DoblyHD or DTS HD over HDM istill currently requires an add-in card. I'd love to be able to get an HTPC that can game in HD as well...



My onboard supports DTS.


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## Dent1 (May 31, 2010)

^ DTS is different from DTS HD, likewise Dolby Digital is different from Dolby Digital True HD.

The HD variants support higher bitrates and you need a special HD receiver to use these technologies, they can only be pass through HDMI as well (not fibre or coaxial).


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## DriedFrogPills (May 31, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> Actually, you are very right, and most onboard "soundcards" today are almost equivalent to add-in cards, at least 100% feature-wise.
> 
> However, to get DoblyHD or DTS HD over HDM istill currently requires an add-in card. I'd love to be able to get an HTPC that can game in HD as well...



does the 7.1 sound chip in the 5****'s cover this?


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## El_Mayo (May 31, 2010)

125W 6 cores currently support AM2+ w/ DDR2

that's gonna be my next upgrade, not bulldozer


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## Dent1 (May 31, 2010)

DriedFrogPills said:


> does the 7.1 sound chip in the 5****'s cover this?



Interesting question, I actually did not know the answer to this so I did a quick search on the net. From what I understand the 58xx video cards can not bit stream DTS MA HD 7.1 or DD True HD 7.1 through its HDMI output to a supported receiver. However it can output PCM 8 channel and regular DTS 5.1 and DD 5.1 from pre-encoded DVD/BluRay movies.

From what I understand you need a specialist soundcard like the Auzentech Home Threater or Xonar HDAV1.3 in conjunction with PowerDVD to output DTS MA 7.1 or True HD 7.1 via HDMI from pre-encoded DVD/BluRay movies.

This is a area I was slightly iffy about, so if there is a mistake somebody point it out.


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## FordGT90Concept (May 31, 2010)

If it is AM3, that is very bad news, very bad news indeed.  That basically means it stands no hope against Intel LGA 1366 platform because it can't keep up on memory demands.  There's no way AMD could get tri- or quad-channel memory support out of AM3, there simply isn't enough pins.


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## manchesterutd81 (May 31, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> If it is AM3, that is very bad news, very bad news indeed.  That basically means it stands no hope against Intel LGA 1366 platform because it can't keep up on memory demands.  There's no way AMD could get tri- or quad-channel memory support out of AM3, there simply isn't enough pins.



Exactly so they have to be giving us a whole new platform...!


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## jagd (May 31, 2010)

? what about intel 1156 cpus ?what is the difference between dual channel 1156 8xx cpus and triple channel socket 1366 i7 9xx cpus at real life applications clock for clock ? Sooo early to predict  doom and gloom

PS:Excluding crippled pci-e lanes at socket 1156.


FordGT90Concept said:


> If it is AM3, that is very bad news, very bad news indeed.  That basically means it stands no hope against Intel LGA 1366 platform because it can't keep up on memory demands.


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## FordGT90Concept (May 31, 2010)

When you got 8 cores (32 threads) all craving data (which Bulldozer probably will reach before it is all said and done), memory becomes a choke point.  That's why Intel added tri-channel support (6 cores, 12 threads + two way capable) and there's already talks of quad-channel coming.  The more channels you got, the more collective bandwidth is available.

And yes, there's that bit of being able to hand more bandwidth to the motherboard (memory aside).


If they don't increase the number of contacts, they have to increase the workload each contact carries.


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## Wile E (May 31, 2010)

FordGT90Concept said:


> If it is AM3, that is very bad news, very bad news indeed.  That basically means it stands no hope against Intel LGA 1366 platform because it can't keep up on memory demands.  There's no way AMD could get tri- or quad-channel memory support out of AM3, there simply isn't enough pins.



Yeah, I'm gonna have to say new socket as well. I just don't believe they'll stick it back on AM3. If they do, that tells me they are still way behind Intel in the IPC per core race.


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## FordGT90Concept (May 31, 2010)

And I'd certainly hope not.  4 threads per core is unprecedented.  At the same time, there really isn't a connection between IPC and contacts.


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## btarunr (May 31, 2010)

Those which are APUs will have a new socket, but the same dual-channel DDR3 memory. Those without, will continue to have a slightly developed AM3 socket.

The first APUs are based on K10.


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## Fourstaff (Jun 1, 2010)

btarunr said:


> Those which are APUs will have a new socket, but the same dual-channel DDR3 memory. Those without, will continue to have a slightly developed AM3 socket.
> 
> The first APUs are based on K10.



Are you saying that we will have 2 flavours of Bulldozer, one which goes into AM3 and the other into a new socket?


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## jagd (Jun 1, 2010)

No ,not 2 flavours of bulldozer , Llano (cpu +gpu one ) will not have bulldozer core but 32nm athlon X4 core +gpu at first .
What btarunr said is we will have 2 sockets one for integretad gpu (codename Llano ) and AM3 for reguler cpus.


Fourstaff said:


> Are you saying that we will have 2 flavours of Bulldozer, one which goes into AM3 and the other into a new socket?


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 1, 2010)

I'm so F@#king confused now.


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## IINexusII (Jun 1, 2010)

it could just be am3 but with a new chipset like 980fx?


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## jagd (Jun 2, 2010)

sorry for confussion  ,
1-AMD told new desktop bulldozer parts will use socket AM3
2-New cpus with integrated graphics (codename Llano ) will have tweaked athlon X4 on cpu side first (not bulldozer core Fourstaff thought ,it was what i wanted to say ) bulldozer cores with integrated graphics will come later (noone knows how much later at the moment but AMD told architecture is very flexable ) . Llano cpus will have a new socket according to rumours .
Result : One socket for Llano (integrated graphic ones ) and one socket (=AM3  ) for reguler cpus (without integrated graphic)
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/02/10/amd-finally-outs-32nm-llano-core/



TheMailMan78 said:


> I'm so F@#king confused now.


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## DriedFrogPills (Jun 2, 2010)

i thought the lower end parts the APU/Lliano parts where going to be based on the Bobcat core not bulldozer


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## nt300 (Jun 10, 2010)

Zambezi
Family: *Bulldozer*
Cores: 4 to 8
Process: 28nm
*Socket: AM3*
Onboard GPU?: No
Platform: Scorpius
Role: Performance Desktop
Launch date: Late 2010

Ontario
Family: Bobcat
Cores: 2-4
Process: 28nm
*Socket: N/A*
Onboard GPU?: Yes
Platform: Brazos
Role: Ultra Thins, Netbooks
Launch date: 2011

Llano
Family: Stars (Athlon II)
Cores: 4
Process: 28nm
*Socket: N/A (AM3 rumored)*
Onboard GPU?: Yes
Platform: Brazos
Role: Mainstream notebook, mainstream desktop
Launch date: 2011


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## _JP_ (Jun 10, 2010)

nt300 said:


> Zambezi
> Family: *Bulldozer*
> Cores: 4 to 8
> Process: 28nm
> ...



That is very nice, 
but can you give the source, please?


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## cadaveca (Jun 10, 2010)

I dunno that his source is AMD directly, however, that IS the info that has been given by AMD.

I mean really, look at erocker's post on the first page...same stuff I said, too, although many argued against AM3 socket being used for Bulldozer...

Just one bit there seems wrong though...Stars should come on an "updated" S1 socket...


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## cdawall (Jun 10, 2010)

i'm going AM3+ with quad channel support there are enough pins for it to work AM3 still carries blanks


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## _JP_ (Jun 10, 2010)

cadaveca said:


> I dunno that his source is AMD directly, however, that IS the info that has been given by AMD.
> 
> I mean really, look at erocker's post on the first page...same stuff I said, too, although many argued against AM3 socket being used for Bulldozer...
> 
> Just one bit there seems wrong though...Stars should come on an "updated" S1 socket...



Yeah, I argued too. 
But I just can't see AMD fitting all that tech that I saw on press releases + all of the one you said here (that I wasn't yet aware of) in that socket (Even with blank pins). Even Intel had to change their sockets to accommodate new tech and architecture...but I guess that is corporate policy for them anyways. 

And, I also was wondering about the mobile platform. It has been S1 for so long...and currently is S1G2. The shift to an AM3 desktop socket doesn't make much sense. I would bet on a renewed S1 socket (like S1G3)...or a new one, named S2. But that's just my 2 cents...


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## cdawall (Jun 10, 2010)

_JP_ said:


> Yeah, I argued too.
> But I just can't see AMD fitting all that tech that I saw on press releases + all of the one you said here (that I wasn't yet aware of) in that socket (Even with blank pins). Even Intel had to change their sockets to accommodate new tech and architecture...but I guess that is corporate policy for them anyways.
> 
> And, I also was wondering about the mobile platform. It has been S1 for so long...and currently is S1G2. The shift to and AM3 desktop socket doesn't make much sence. I would bet on a renewed socket...or a new one. Named S2. But that's just my 2 cents...



intel changes there socket just because they feel like it (1156 dead 1155 now) anyone remember socket 423?


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## _JP_ (Jun 10, 2010)

cdawall said:


> intel changes there socket just because they feel like it (1156 dead 1155 now) anyone remember socket 423?



Sure I do, not only it made my socket 370 P!!! look outdated after I bought it in 4 or 5 months, a socket 423 P4 @ 1.6GHz would cost some bloody 500€ (or something like that).


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## cdawall (Jun 10, 2010)

_JP_ said:


> Sure I do, not only it made my socket 370 P!!! look outdated after I bought it in 4 or 5 months, a socket 423 P4 @ 1.6GHz would cost some bloody 500€ (or something like that).



comparing AMD to intel sockets is night and day AMD has a much better track record of keeping sockets for extended periods of time


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## _JP_ (Jun 10, 2010)

True. I currently own a motherboard with the longest lasting Intel socket, that I can think of. The 775 has lasted very long and withstood AMD's change from 939 to the AMx sockets.
But even AMD could realize that changing the socket now isn't that bad. If they do it right, the new one could last as long as the current AM2/+/3 series, carrying the new technology and leaving room for even more.


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## cdawall (Jun 10, 2010)

_JP_ said:


> True. I currently own a motherboard with the longest lasting Intel socket, that I can think of. The 775 has lasted very long and withstood AMD's change from 939 to the AMx sockets.
> But even AMD could realize that changing the socket now isn't that bad. If they do it right, the new one could last as long as the current AM2/+/3 series, carrying the new technology and leaving room for even more.



only thing i complain about 775 is that even if it lasted try popping a 8600 into a i945 board no pop a thuban into a geforce 6100 board all it took was a bios update (i understand 580x died but all of those boards are phenom II capable with a BIOS update they just lack the update)


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## nt300 (Jun 11, 2010)

_JP_ said:


> That is very nice,
> but can you give the source, please?


Here's link.
http://tech.icrontic.com/articles/what-we-know-about-amds-next-generation-processors/
Just change 32nm to 28nm. I think AM3 will work with 1st Bulldozer but others to come may be on another socket because more pins are needed.


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## Flanker (Jun 12, 2010)

are there any info regarding to TDP numbers yet?
it looks like the biggest drawback of amd processors atm is their power consumption, 
I'm hoping bulldozer can significantly improve efficiency


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## Wile E (Jun 12, 2010)

cdawall said:


> comparing AMD to intel sockets is night and day AMD has a much better track record of keeping sockets for extended periods of time



You mean like 939?

It seems like the one in the lead like to change sockets. I can't figure it out.


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## cdawall (Jun 12, 2010)

Wile E said:


> You mean like 939?
> 
> It seems like the one in the lead like to change sockets. I can't figure it out.



939 died when DDR2 came out....LGA775 just swapped to DDR3 and made newer chips required to go on these chipsets (P35 and later)


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## Super XP (Jun 13, 2010)

Flanker said:


> are there any info regarding to TDP numbers yet?
> it looks like the biggest drawback of amd processors atm is their power consumption,
> I'm hoping bulldozer can significantly improve efficiency


Rumored to be between 10 to 100 TDP. But looking at what's postes about Bulldozer, it should have really have a great TDP. It seems everything today is based on low power + high performance.


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## Wile E (Jun 13, 2010)

cdawall said:


> 939 died when DDR2 came out....LGA775 just swapped to DDR3 and made newer chips required to go on these chipsets (P35 and later)



DDR2 had already been out for a long while. Doesn't matter why they killed the socket, only that they killed the socket quickly. They are guilty of it too, so stop the "evil socket-changing Intel empire" crap. It gets old. If AMD was in a position to get away with it, they would do it too, but since they can't keep up, they had to change their focus to a value minded approach. People wouldn't continue to buy them if they changed sockets because they don't have the performance to get away with it.

And Intel only really forced a board upgrade when Core 2 released. Everything after is per manufacturer designs and bioses. nVidia was really the only one that had trouble with the 45nm move. So you essentially have 2 775 sockets. Early and late. And it didn't have anything to do with the chipset, it was the power layout of the boards that differed.


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## Flanker (Jun 13, 2010)

Super XP said:


> Rumored to be between 10 to 100 TDP. But looking at what's postes about Bulldozer, it should have really have a great TDP. It seems everything today is based on low power + high performance.


great TDP= high TDP or high performance/TDP 

but anyway, yeah, i'm kinda a silent pc enthusiast, low TDP = low heat = slow fan = low noise


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## nt300 (Jun 17, 2010)

I seem its low heat output and fast performance.


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## largon (Aug 27, 2010)

nt300 said:


> Zambezi
> Family: Bulldozer
> Cores: 4 to 8
> Process: 28nm
> ...


Highlighted all that's wrong.


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## Super XP (Aug 27, 2010)

Nice catch.

*Zambezi*
Family: Bulldozer
Cores: 8
Process: 32nm HKMG
Socket: AM3+
Onboard GPU?: No
Platform: Scorpius
Role: Bulldozing Desktop 
Launch date: Q1-Q2 2011
Will it kick Butt: Yes
Will it make you a Green Tea Latte: Only if you water cool the beast


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## Tokio (Aug 28, 2010)

hopefully its not a new socket..


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## pantherx12 (Aug 28, 2010)

Why are people hoping the socket isn't new?

If it is new they can stick more features in there.

If its old then they have to stick within the confines of an older socket.


I want a brand new socket : ] Especially because the am2/+/3 mounting system is just awful.

I hope they use a square shape this time instead.


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## Super XP (Aug 29, 2010)

Tokio said:


> hopefully its not a new socket..


The last think AMD wants is to stick with Socket AM3 compatibility and force Bulldozer to use Dual-Channel DDR3 instead of Quad-Channel DDR3. How on earth is a Dual-Channel going to feed all those extra cores? i.e., 8 Core Bulldozer coming in early 2011 

New socket, bring it on, I need an update anyway...


pantherx12 said:


> Why are people hoping the socket isn't new?
> 
> If it is new they can stick more features in there.
> 
> ...


Wow, you got that RIGHT. I like Intel's method vs. what AMD uses today... With AMD's method a big CPU cooler blocks one or two of your RAMs where as the Intel mounting system does not block it I beleive.


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