# New anti-piracy laws coming to town near you



## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

Looks like the UK is about to pass new laws regarding anti-piracy. I've also heard this story on G4 and how if/when it comes to the US it will expect isp's to forward notices and warning will lead to permanent disruption of your internet service.

I personally think this is a great idea bec. it may lead to higher revenues in dvd, cd and game sales therefore stimulating the creation of newer and better games...possibly. This could help the PC gaming world.

Any fool can see how piracy has affected us personally, it leads to lower revenue for companies trying to support the PC software community and gives that same community a bad rep and the consequence is fewer and fewer support for PC gamers. I think if there were a little more enforcement on piracy then the PC community would only benefit.

the government wants to enforce your ISP to monitor and enforce piracy laws. And if after the 3rd strike your ISP will terminate YOUR service or they will be fined by the Govt that made them responsible for YOU/ME..

theyre not going to ban the guy stealing off your router, they are going to ban YOU.. and if they don't they eat $80k fines per offense.

so instead of preaching to the people about anti-piracy, they are trying to make it unlawful for an ISP to allow it. The ISP becomes the responsible party and they can easily dictate whether or not you will continue to have high speed internet.

I'm not trying to protect piracy and boycott this move. I just think this is going to change things for everyone, good and bad.

thoughts?

source


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Nov 24, 2009)

shevanel said:


> Looks like the UK is about to pass new laws regarding anti-piracy. I've also heard this story on G4 and how if/when it comes to the US it will expect isp's to forward notices and warning will lead to permanent disruption of your internet service.
> 
> I personally think this is a great idea bec. it may lead to higher revenues in dvd, cd and game sales. this could also help the PC gaming world.
> 
> ...




Thoughts ... none ...


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

thank you for coming by and letting us know. your opinion has inspired me.


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## v12dock (Nov 24, 2009)

My ISP has been doing this for over a year now.


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## erocker (Nov 24, 2009)

As long as it doesn't affect non-pirates in any way or infract upon any personal freedoms, I have no problem with it. Judging by the people I have to talk to on the phone or the workers who come by my house from my ISP, I doubt they are capable of doing such a thing anyways.


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

What? Sending you warnings?


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## dir_d (Nov 24, 2009)

Nothing will change...alot of people already encrypt everything so im not sure how the isps will track these sort of things. It might detour the average user but most people that are determined to pirate will find a way.


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

Well, it could lead to bandwidth caps, latency and the amount of usage on your line could also be limited.

what good is a torrent/pirate if your max monthly limit is 5gb

most people burn up 3-4gb a month just on web browsing and windows updates alone.


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## dir_d (Nov 24, 2009)

shevanel said:


> Well, it could lead to bandwidth caps, latency and the amount of usage on your line could also be limited.



Yea Comcast already has a 250Gig/month Cap but im sure as the speeds of the net in America finally grow to the speeds in Europe that cap will lower by alot.


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

The amount of money that isp's could pay in fees/penalties could also result in higher bills for us.

there is alot of things to think about here. when the gov. steps in and puts pressure on a company to be responsible for the actions of it's customers then things will get ugly.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Nov 24, 2009)

Well piracy will go back to the old days of hand to hand if they cap it .. pirates cant be stopped, arrggghh


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## Mussels (Nov 24, 2009)

its been like this for years here in Au, you get caught pirating your ISP suspends your internet until you call them up and tell them you were away on holidays with an unsecure wireless connection...


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## niko084 (Nov 24, 2009)

dir_d said:


> Yea Comcast already has a 250Gig/month Cap but im sure as the speeds of the net in America finally grow to the speeds in Europe that cap will lower by alot.



Supposedly anyways..

I can tell you for sure, I am one for certain who goes over that limit never gotten a letter or warning or phone call, non of it.

No it's not done with torrents either.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 24, 2009)

This just sounds like another damn gimmick for ISPs to have an excuse to cap us. "We are caping to stop piracy! Think of the children!"


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## niko084 (Nov 24, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> This just sounds like another damn gimmick for ISPs to have an excuse to cap us. "We are caping to stop piracy! Think of the children!"



So they can oversell their lines like the Cell companies 

That on top of a few thousand layoffs because "Everyone dropped their high speed" and the board can buy all their grand children brand new BMWs


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## psyko12 (Nov 24, 2009)

Meh my internet is already capped rofl 3mbps for sufring goodness... LMAO, downloading stuck with 20KB/s nothing higher


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## Polarman (Nov 24, 2009)

Piracy is bad but child porno is a million times worse.

You can't put a price on the victims.


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## Mussels (Nov 24, 2009)

Polarman said:


> Piracy is bad but child porno is a million times worse.
> 
> You can't put a price on the victims.



while i agree with you, i'd rather not see this thread closed due to the inevitable arguments such a topic will bring up.

lets keep this focused on ISP's and piracy


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

People say "ah i always do this and i never get warnings" while that may be true, there is also that old saying "all good things come to an end"

I hate to imagine having to be bandwidth capped.


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## Polarman (Nov 24, 2009)

ISP's should have a blocked website listing on their side to counter piracy.


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## Mussels (Nov 24, 2009)

shevanel said:


> People say "ah i always do this and i never get warnings" while that may be true, there is also that old saying "all good things come to an end"
> 
> I hate to imagine having to be bandwidth capped.



the average Australian thinks 12GB (upload and download combined) is good enough. They get shaped to 64Kb/s (8KB/s) when they breach it.

I can almost imagine you cowering in fear.


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

the amzing thing is.. for someone to obtain illegal copyrighted material it's so easy these days.. pretty much anything you would want is for the taking without much concern for punishment. <and that's not a good thing in reality

it's not like back in the day where you at to frequent the old and slow #"name here" irc's and etc... 

and as for the blacklisting of websites.. can an isp blacklist any website they want? without needing any reason to do so?


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## ShRoOmAlIsTiC (Nov 24, 2009)

niko084 said:


> Supposedly anyways..
> 
> I can tell you for sure, I am one for certain who goes over that limit never gotten a letter or warning or phone call, non of it.
> 
> No it's not done with torrents either.



Porn?


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## BUCK NASTY (Nov 24, 2009)

ShRoOmAlIsTiC said:


> Porn?





Mussels said:


> while i agree with you, *i'd rather not see this thread closed due to the inevitable arguments such a topic will bring up.*
> 
> lets keep this focused on ISP's and piracy




Will you not heed Mussels warning? Content is a Pandora's Box, so don't open it.


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## a_ump (Nov 24, 2009)

ney! open the box and amazing things happen . eh i got satellite so my pirating days ended a while ago. i'm all for it lol


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## BUCK NASTY (Nov 24, 2009)

a_ump said:


> ney! open the box and amazing things happen . eh i got satellite so my pirating days ended a while ago. i'm all for it lol


Tell them they need to drag some fiber optics over them mountains so you can have at least "some bandwidth".


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## a_ump (Nov 24, 2009)

haha i was actually thinkin of calling the cable company in the nearest town and asking if i paid em if they would run the cabling out. i miss CSS and L4D :'( lol


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## ChewyBrownSuga (Nov 24, 2009)

So does this mean no more free songs???
I dont pirate games or movies but songs is a whole another thing


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## a_ump (Nov 24, 2009)

idk, i too thought of limewire as that would still affect me with satellite internet. I'd say this is more directed towards game and software(like photoshop) pirating, i mean the music industry has been getting pirated for alot longer than pc games and the like and just now something _may_ be done bout pirating.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Nov 24, 2009)

SO why not block botnets and virii?


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 24, 2009)

The only pirates making significant money are those that boot leg copies in Asia (namely, China).  They don't use the Internet for that activity beyond selling their product.  This law does nothing to even hinder illegal activity but it does a lot in terms of "big brother."  Your freedoms are fading into oblivion.  My business is my own.


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## KainXS (Nov 24, 2009)

this law won't do much of squat in the end, if they want to stop piracy they need to put the laws in effect where the servers are, IE, mainly germany, asia, and korea,

but i don't live in UK


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## xfire (Nov 24, 2009)

Maybe pirate bay will get into the ISP business


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Nov 24, 2009)

xfire said:


> Maybe pirate bay will get into the ISP business



Id subscribe


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## AsRock (Nov 24, 2009)

dir_d said:


> Yea Comcast already has a 250Gig/month Cap but im sure as the speeds of the net in America finally grow to the speeds in Europe that cap will lower by alot.



Don't believe it's a cap.  As i understand it they just start charging you overages.


Tot he OP  it hopfully help PC and XBox games as both are pirated to hell.  Which is one thing that pisses me off no end with Gamestop and there crappy policy's and killing of EB bit by bit.

Thats why i download of my games these days as Gamestop is all we have since CompUSA went down.


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## allen337 (Nov 24, 2009)

They need to make these games and software where you want to buy it. I download a lot of games and software free or however you want to put it to try it out. If its a good game or good software I purchase it, if its already free I donate. kinda like the new game COD, downloaded it tried it NO dedicated server, deleted it, moved on. Same thing with crysis and ut3 and I own multiple copies of both now.


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## Marineborn (Nov 24, 2009)

hmmm,  this is getting close to being harrasing, im highly doubting isp's would even cooperate do to the chance of lose of buisness


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

If it's made a law then you have no chance of not cooperating without a heavy fine.


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## Taz100420 (Nov 24, 2009)

The only reason I d/l some games is a "try b4 u buy". I dont want to go out and spend $40-$50 on a game I may play once. So I d/l the game, the demo isnt really fulfilling. If I like the game, I will go out and spend the money on it. Almost all my games have been d/l'ed. I have bought all of them since.

I havent had a warning from my ISP b/c I only d/l a game every month or so.


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## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

JUSt to say Pirates survived till now they will survive again, nuthing is gonna stop em . Offcourse there is an option of   12/12/2012 
Bottomline: There is always a way!


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

There is always a way, but at what cost to people that do not pirate.


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## Steevo (Nov 24, 2009)

Umm, hello. FTP sites spread between friends still can't stop the piracy!










They will just stop the average user from pirating everything they can get tiehr hands on and infecting their Dell and making it another spambot.



So more power to them. Now exscuse me while I download this Linux distro from my friend........


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## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

Well the people who dont pirate well they are bieng ripped off by manufacturers...
The other day i went to sell my World at war, the shop keeper said she give me $16 for it, i pointed out why? the ones used in the shelf are $49, she said well i dunt make the prices, 
same at gamespot, told them had a brand new xbox360 arcade, still has 1yr9months warrant how much would you buy it for, his price offer was $90, and when i asked him if he had used 360's he was selling it for $160, a repaired 2006 model!!! WTF


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## Steevo (Nov 24, 2009)

They ahve to stand the warranty, labor expense, insurance for employees, overhead.



Don't go there and bitch, if you don't like ti just don't go there.


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## erocker (Nov 24, 2009)

maq_paki said:


> Well the people who dont pirate well they are bieng ripped off by manufacturers...
> The other day i went to sell my World at war, the shop keeper said she give me $16 for it, i pointed out why? the ones used in the shelf are $49, she said well i dunt make the prices,
> same at gamespot, told them had a brand new xbox360 arcade, still has 1yr9months warrant how much would you buy it for, his price offer was $90, and when i asked him if he had used 360's he was selling it for $160, a repaired 2006 model!!! WTF



Lol, that's why you don't sell stuff to retail stores! ebay, craigslist, internet forum buy/sell/trade threads will work better.


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## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

Yh i suppose


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## Mussels (Nov 24, 2009)

Taz100420 said:


> The only reason I d/l some games is a "try b4 u buy". I dont want to go out and spend $40-$50 on a game I may play once. So I d/l the game, the demo isnt really fulfilling. If I like the game, I will go out and spend the money on it. Almost all my games have been d/l'ed. I have bought all of them since.
> 
> I havent had a warning from my ISP b/c I only d/l a game every month or so.



thats exactly why things like this never work.

People try before they buy, and maybe one in ten buys.

If there was no pirated 'trial' - there would be zero out of ten buyers.


Piracy doesnt cost them money, cause the pirates never would have bought the product anyway!


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## Taz100420 (Nov 24, 2009)

Mussels said:


> thats exactly why things like this never work.
> 
> People try before they buy, and maybe one in ten buys.
> 
> ...



Well I guess Im one in a few lol. I actually do go buy the game after I "try" it. The pirated versions of the game are almost always buggy I.E. they crash or dont have all the files with them.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 24, 2009)

Quick cap the interwebz! Think of the children!


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 24, 2009)

Mussels said:


> Piracy doesnt cost them money, cause the pirates never would have bought the product anyway!


Except bootlegs: duplicate the software including packaging and sell it at a discounted price.  Some bootlegs are so good, it is difficult to tell the official copy from the bootleg besides looking at the price.

Piracy via downloading has little profit in it, as you stated. 9 out 10 won't pay money for the product no matter what so it's like asking a kitten for coin.  It's silly nonsense.


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## Nick89 (Nov 24, 2009)

This wont affect me.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 24, 2009)

Please don't monitor what I do big brother.


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## i789 (Nov 24, 2009)

new law, new regulation, new DRM, and they are doing all they can and still fail to stop people copy their softwares. What are they going to do next, round people around the block and install security cam at every home?? It is a losing war, and they should just give up!


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

Next up-  using our SSN to register our games.


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 24, 2009)

shevanel said:


> Next up-  using our SSN to register our games.


I'd believe it.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 24, 2009)

shevanel said:


> Next up-  using our SSN to register our games.





FordGT90Concept said:


> I'd believe it.



For certain things you already do. People who forgot there Credit Cards have to give a date of birth and type in SS. Its being asked more and more often.


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

Do you already compare your games to your credit cards?

I can see Microsoft making a move to where you have to buy a special optical drive for gaming. this optical drive is used for reading the copyright protection mechanism, similar to a console. The games of the future will not play on standard cd/dvd drives but only on these decrypting "gaming" drives.

Then after all the hassle and millions spent, it's hacked and were back to square one.

After the whole infinity ward thing and the notion they may be abandoning pc gaming has left me thinking about what would happen if over the years PC gaming becomes obsolete and NV/ATI only compete for who's chip goes in which console because of the lack of software being developed for pc. It could happen. 

In the lifespan of the next gen video cards we will start to truly know where PC gaming is headed. 

As for piracy, it only hurts the consumer, it's as bad as people who don't pay their taxes.

Musicians hurt the most from piracy if I had to guess, which I am.


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## MoonPig (Nov 24, 2009)

I've always been puzzled by one concept:

Say i download a program (In HD) that is on TV as im downloading it. So it airs at 8pm... i set it off in the morning so it's downloaded around a similar time. Am i breaking any laws considering i can easily access the same thing by turning on my TV? Im paying for a licence... and im not downloading any boxsets. Also, it's saved to my PC... but isn't Sky+ doing the same thing? I can just rip from it's hard-drive to my PC... easily. 

Reason i do it is so i can have it in HD and not SD.

Never had anything said to me, from the ISP, about downloading (except when i downloaded my Steam folder when i got my PC... 60GB in a day and i got capped to 56K for a week! 'Unlimited' ... yea...). I don't download games, films or new music... So, i think my ISP has bigger people to go after.

Also, my ISP give me such a bad connection to seeders in torrents that i'd be surpised if they could see me (if they were hiding as seeders). Like now, (12538) on the tracker, (518) in the client, (17) i have available. If some anti-piracy company was one of these 17... i'd be damn unlucky...

/Rant.


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## W1zzard (Nov 24, 2009)

i doubt that any jurisdiction blocking internet access for you will hold up in any larger court. most countries see access to ifnormation as a basic right (thats why they cant take your tv away), make a proper case in front of the judge and you will get your internet back.

uh uh i'm a muslim extremist and i need to know what's going on so i can prepare to execute important events that are part of my beliefs. <--- information AND religion!


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## JTS (Nov 24, 2009)

The only true way to stop the widespread proliferation of pirated material is to abolish the Internet entirely.

Obviously that's never going to happen.  Whatever deterrent methods that are implemented, will just as quickly be circumvented.  Depending on the methods used, it may slow down some, but it will never stop.  Piracy is here to stay.

In regards to games, the damage has already been done.  Piracy has killed the golden age of gaming.  This is evidenced by the ever increasing amount of ports and the ever decreasing amount of PC only titles.  Sadly, this is a trend that will not be reversed.


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

JTS said:


> The only true way to stop the widespread proliferation of pirated material is to abolish the Internet entirely.
> 
> Obviously that's never going to happen.  Whatever deterrent methods that are implemented, will just as quickly be circumvented.  Depending on the methods used, it may slow down some, but it will never stop.  Piracy is here to stay.
> 
> In regards to games, the damage has already been done.  Piracy has killed the golden age of gaming.  This is evidenced by the ever increasing amount of ports and the ever decreasing amount of PC only titles.  Sadly, this is a trend that will not be reversed.



Sadly, I agree. i couldn't have said it better.

and it's fun to read it with an accent


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## W1zzard (Nov 24, 2009)

JTS said:


> The only true way to stop the widespread proliferation of pirated material is to abolish the Internet entirely.



it is not possible to stop piracy. before internet, people traded via mailboxes (bbs), befre digital copies they traded tapes and vhs copies. you can always make analog copies of audio material. hell i'm sure in the middle ages they conscripted some peons to handwrite unlicensed copies of books like the bible.

the only way to significantly reduce it is to lower prices, would you pirate a song that costs 5 or 10 cents to download? of course this means less profits for companies so why not fight with their usual tactics, in the big picture this costs a lot less than would be lost by drastically reducing content prices

i guess in their situation i would do the same. hell i would give everyone who reports a pirate 100/1000/10000 free songs to download


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

Internet piracy is on a much larger scale than anything that precedes it. 

Plus, people do not usually pay for the pirated material they obtain and the "middle man" is the site that helps you find what you're looking for. 

Much like a drug deal, the person buying the goods doesn't get punished as heavily as the guy selling and in this case does the torrent site become the dealer or is the blame passed onto the ISP?

(just saw you add that line about reporting piracy, local cable companies give 1 year free service or $500 if you report a person stealing cable and they are convicted/proved of stealing cable -mostly as a scare tactic I'd say. People fear snitches more than they fear the law itself)


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 24, 2009)

Is it really even piracy?  Piracy prior to the 19th century involved stealing something like fancy jewlry, raiding a Spanish treasure ship, or copying the Mona Lisa and selling it as original.  Today, trillions of copy operations are performed on copyrighted material every second and that number is growing at an unstoppable rate.  Google, being the number one violator.

Piracy didn't kill PC gaming, PCs did.  Most gamers out there don't want to go through the hassel of configuring a PC and trouble shooting all the problems.  With consoles, you need only know four things:
1) How to turn it on and off.
2) How to plug it in to a TV (not necessary for most).
3) How to stick a game in.
4) How to call Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft if it doesn't work to which, they reply, send it to this address and we'll get it fixed for you (as in, not spend 30+ minutes on the phone troubleshooting something).

I can't even make a list of problems users encounter with just a single PC game because it would number well into the hundreds, if not thousands with many solutions for problems not being definitive.

The only solution I see, is Microsoft develops a standard for PC gaming that is akin to consoles.  It can plug in to a TV, it will play all the games certified to play on it, and if there is a problem, call the manufacturer to have it replaced.  In doing so, however, you practically end up with an Xbox 360 less all the RRODs.


And the other facet: developement costs.  The "golden age of PC gaming" was back in the 8-bit and 16-bit era where anyone with some time on their hands could author a game like Doom.  Today, it takes years to develop a game from the ground up and all that time is comprised of expensive labor costs.  Instead of being innovation driven, the market is now make it pretty and fast driven.  Consoles, because they are developing for a singlular platform, naturally gravitate to the "fast" part.  Innovation, on the other hand, is handled by the manufactuers of the consoles.


Simply put, the PC market has vanished because the gamers did.  Piracy made the Spanish queen poorer but it is hard to blame piracy if the Spanish never even had treasure ships in the first place, no?



Dirt cheap prices would definitely cause a lot of converts in terms of piracy.  $60 for a game that would be doing good to entertain you 10 hours is a blatant rip off yet, they wonder why every gets the games without paying.


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

Taking this pic from the mw2 thread that eastcoasthandle posted, i wouldn't begin to say that "PC gamers have vanished" this is A and half way through C and this is online-mulitplayer games only.







If the next XBOX has something like a 5870 then I fear for PC gaming.. developers will certainly jump ship and get on the console bandwagon pulled by jackasses. Bring a mouse and KB to the next MS console and I might bite.


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## W1zzard (Nov 24, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> The only solution I see, is Microsoft develops a standard for PC gaming that is akin to consoles.



it's called directx and xbox 360. the xbox is really just a standardized pc with simple gui and developer tools



shevanel said:


> People fear snitches more than they fear the law itself



yep, my country has a proud history of such things working in the short term


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 24, 2009)

shevanel said:


> Much like a drug deal, the person buying the goods doesn't get punished as heavily as the guy selling and in this case does the torrent site become the dealer or is the blame passed onto the ISP?


They strike at the ISP because that's the only accessible target.  They have to subpoena and/or coerce the ISP in order to get user information, at which point they can attack the individual.  Because attacking the individual rarely works, they're trying (wine & dine) to make governments turn ISPs into a policing force.




shevanel said:


> Taking this pic from the mw2 thread that eastcoasthandle posted, i wouldn't begin to say that "PC gamers have vanished" this is A and half way through C and this is online-mulitplayer games only.


"Max players" is often seen only in the first month on a single day, never to reach that number ever again; moreover, the highest number on that list is 915,000.  There's 300,000,000 in the USA alone.  The numbers are much lower than they could be.

Battlefield 2 and Counter-Strike are both quite old.  Call of Duty 4 is the only noteworthy game on the list. IMO, but even it isn't a new title.




W1zzard said:


> it's called directx and xbox 360. the xbox is really just a standardized pc with simple gui and developer tools


DirectX doesn't certify the hardware is capable of running a game.  Microsoft would have to create levels.  For example, "2009 Windows Gaming Certificate" logo which has very thorough specifications which include a set of hardware guarenteed to run the game as intended including the amount and speed of RAM, the processor requirements, hard drive size and speed, half a dozen or so video cards, a compliant audio device, and an operating system with a focus on HTPC and gaming.

Manufacturers create a prototype machine that matches these requirements and sends it to Microsoft.  Microsoft runs a battery of tests to make sure games with the "2009 Windows Gaming Certificate" perform as expected and without problems.  If the machines pass the certifcation, they may be branded as a "2009 Windows Gaming" certified PC.  You buy it (it would be more expensive than a console but not by much), plug it in to a monitor or TV, stick your games in, and play like you would a console.  At the same time, you could take that game, stick it in a traditional Windows machine, install, and play it there.  The configuration settings would be unlocked (e.g. AA, AF, view distance, etc.) in a traditional PC whereas, in the consolized PC, there would be next to no configuration options (except game and controller).

The technology could supercede the Xbox 360, easily, being pretty much the same thing but more readily serviable and upgradable (so long as it still compiles with the standards).

Every year, Microsoft would have to reevaluate the "2009 Windows Game Certified" recommendations, upgrading them if necessary.  Developers would have to decide to which year of certification they would like to design their game for, much like a console.  Either they could go with the most recent specification for eye candy or they could go a few years back to reach a broader market.  Upgrade packages could turn a 2009 machine, for example, in to a 2010 machine.


Effiectively, it would sit right on the line between console and PC.


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## W1zzard (Nov 24, 2009)

what i meant is that the xbox is a pc with standardized components, that is running directx


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## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

Okey one way to end piracy is well i just saw a review here on tpu long ago, if you guys remember, its a box provided by some company, it just shows you the game on your tv, but the game is played on the company's computer, you need highspeed internet to run the game in SD,
That method really seems affective, where you just get a live feed of the game you are playing, no game downloads, no bugs, as they have the game running (they checked everything) And well in that senario you just cant download games or anything, at it is the simple solution to Anti-piracy.... but I dont remember it completely, maybe it has flaws or something, but it seems a better way than having any anti-piracy laws being made


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

I'd rather go back to playing scrabble, monopoly or uhh don't say it.. SPADES.. before i watch a bounced feed of me playing off of some A.C. server..

WTF dude

back on topic..

the government wants to enforce your ISP to monitor and enforce piracy laws. And if after the 3rd strike your ISP will terminate YOUR service or they will be fined by the Govt that made them responsible for YOU/ME..

theyre not going to ban the guy stealing off your router, they are going to ban YOU.. and if they don't they eat $80k fines per offense.

so instead of preaching to the people about anti-piracy, they are trying to make it unlawful for an ISP to allow it. The ISP becomes the responsible party and they can easily dictate whether or not you will continue to have high speed internet.

I'm not trying to protect piracy and boycott this move. I just think this is going to change things for everyone, good and bad.


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## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

Um i dont know but if the hardware came out and was running good without lag then why not, it would be same as playing a game on your tv with a keyboard or controller which ever.... But that i see as a Anti-Piracy thing Nothing else


----------



## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

Um i have been downloading pretty much since couple of months without the isp complaining...
But if this concerns,  Bak in my country you could have a internet connection, get the downloading goin which i enjoyed there, even though kinda slow... but No way the isp is gonna ban you off the internet, and well no one gives a dam about our government and then we have major crysis to ever be concern of the Anti-Piracy or internet at all  so i would be safely downloading there


----------



## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

Ronnie said he has been having sex with random bar chicks without a condom for a couple of months.. and he is still disease free.. so relax there is nothing to worry about 

and to reply to your post below this..

everything leaving your PC travels through your ISP first.. not around it and over it.


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## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

Well i think maybe the isp would have hard time tracking a hackr? i mean with all the firewall and isp changer etc and hacking power to control the isp it self it wont reall happen to some but yet most of us


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## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

shevanel said:


> Ronnie said he has been having sex with random bar chicks without a condom for a couple of months.. and he is still disease free.. so relax there is nothing to worry about



   
Maybe Living to the exteme  but you never know


----------



## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

shevanel said:


> Ronnie said he has been having sex with random bar chicks without a condom for a couple of months.. and he is still disease free.. so relax there is nothing to worry about
> 
> and to reply to your post below this..
> 
> everything leaving your PC travels through your ISP first.. not around it and over it.



Sure but some genius may find a hack around it some day? or maybe not


----------



## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

Maybe off topic, but as Pc world comes to an end before or after 2012, As people have came up with emulators, for the consoles, it wont be long before we see a 360 emulator and a ps3 emulator on pc playing the newest of the titles, by the way people have modded thier 360 to play backups, how come ps3 users never came up with a crack? Do they hate it so bad not to even care? Couldnt be so hard as they cracked a 360? 
Maybe someone can enlighten me?

 And well we will be having a xbox 720 somewhear near so maybe a ps4, well that would be an end to ps3 and 360 in 2 years  no?


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## shevanel (Nov 24, 2009)

man that is a quadruple post... consolidate lol

goodnight tpu.. don't lose any sleep thinking about your isp checking in on your odd bandwidth usage.


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## Triprift (Nov 24, 2009)

shevanel said:


> I'd rather go back to playing scrabble, monopoly or uhh don't say it.. SPADES.. before i watch a bounced feed of me playing off of some A.C. server..
> 
> WTF dude
> 
> ...



Same thing is happening here with Perth based ISP iiNet. Iinets in federal court defending accusation from the film industry that they didnt do enough the stop its users from illegal use of films and tv programmes.


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## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

Triprift said:


> Same thing is happening here with Perth based ISP iiNet. Iinets in federal court defending accusation from the film industry that they didnt do enough the stop its users from illegal use of films and tv programmes.



Dude its the game that you are playing being bounced off, maybe its something diff there but you have a video reciver showing you your video of the game you are playing rite now, but the game is running on some other computer server,


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## <<Onafets>> (Nov 24, 2009)

I don't think there's anything ISP's can do to stop piracy...what happens if you download a file with random letters and no's as it's name and all you have to do is change the file type to a rar file to get free music or some shit?


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## Mussels (Nov 24, 2009)

<<Onafets>> said:


> I don't think there's anything ISP's can do to stop piracy...what happens if you download a file with random letters and no's as it's name and all you have to do is change the file type to a rar file to get free music or some shit?



exactly. same with encrypted data, files split into .rar's ....


----------



## Flyordie (Nov 24, 2009)

shevanel said:


> The amount of money that isp's could pay in fees/penalties could also result in higher bills for us.
> 
> there is alot of things to think about here. when the gov. steps in and puts pressure on a company to be responsible for the actions of it's customers then things will get ugly.




I speak for an independent organization who is more or less in line with the FCC in most instances, this is one instance where the FCC has hit gold... its "Net Neutrality" rules.  I have seen the rough draft and the general word out of the office is plain and simple- not much will change from the rough draft.  This thing Shev brings up will violate those rules, and therfore will not be adopted. RIAA and MPAA both fear these new rules and have spent millions trying to battle them.  So my 2 cents is this- Europe can try, USA will flat out reject.


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 24, 2009)

They can find it assuming all the data is hitting the same routers.  The problem is, it comes at an enormous hardware cost they don't want to pay without policing the Internet...


ISPs are a lot like the film, music, and game industry in that they look at the situation with drunk goggles.  The film, music, and game industry see people downloading stuff and think: "These people owe me money," instead of "they wouldn't pay unless I spend thousands of dollars in legal fees that most likely won't be won anyway."  ISPs are the same in that either they feel "these people owe me extra money for using the service" or "they paid for the connection, they can do with it what they please."  The former mindsets of both is that of a thief, no better than the pirate they seek out.  The latter is how the courts see it (you get what you pay for, literal): the  people that did not purchase something have no basis for damages (no one is making money and no one is losing money) and people that pay for their connection ought not to be ordered what they can do with it (that would be akin to saying you paid your taxes but you can't drive on a road).



Someone in this thread stated that they'll start making disk drives that have some hyper advanced, impossible to break security system.  That's what DVD and especially Blu-Ray started out as.  In order to gain access to the contents of any disk, you have to have software packaged with it to read it.  Such practice is self-defeating.  The reason why software is so easily pirated with PCs as compared to consoles is because Operating Systems (Windows and Linux) are very open to such activities.  Consoles, on the other hand, are not.  In order to perform the same activities, one has to find, and exploit, a hole in the console's operating system.  Console manufacturers are very quick to fill those holes where as Microsoft/Linux authors only do enough with their operating systems to not get sued.


This is a dangerous path we tread and it will have far reaching consequences on the future.  Imagine an internet where search engines are forbidden because, by their very nature, they have to store and copyrighted information.  No one will be able to find anything anymore unless they know exactly where to look.

The digital age is the age of piracy.  We can't have one without the other.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 24, 2009)

But What About The Children! How Can We Protect Their Unless We Cap Your Interwebz?!







The chilllllllldren!


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## Mussels (Nov 24, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> But What About The Children! How Can We Protect Their Unless We Cap Your Interwebz?!



thats easy. you need a licence to get online. any and all activities conducted under said licence are the legal responsibility of the owner of the licence.

After this licence comes into play america will invade canada - they'll need the land to build enough prisons to house all the americans who break the law on the interbutts.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 24, 2009)

Mussels said:


> thats easy. you need a licence to get online. any and all activities conducted under said licence are the legal responsibility of the owner of the licence.
> 
> After this licence comes into play america will invade canada - they'll need the land to build enough prisons to house all the americans who break the law on the interbutts.



OHHHH! I wanna be first to be water boarded! Pick me! Pick me!


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## MatTheCat (Nov 24, 2009)

shevanel said:


> Looks like the UK is about to pass new laws regarding anti-piracy. I've also heard this story on G4 and how if/when it comes to the US it will expect isp's to forward notices and warning will lead to permanent disruption of your internet service.
> 
> I personally think this is a great idea bec. it may lead to higher revenues in dvd, cd and game sales therefore stimulating the creation of newer and better games...possibly. This could help the PC gaming world.
> 
> ...



Oh yeah....and piracy supports terrorism, money laundering, and human trafficking as well. Cos all those kiddies with their illegal mp3's, modded 360's, and downloaded DivX files have spare money to send off to thier favorite terrorist cause and/or spend it on hiring out a chinese illegal immigrant slave to tidy their rooms up for them (or something).

So it it is only reasonable that the government take yet another measure to completely monitor our actions and record everything that we do in the name of combatting such evils. Hey, I have nothing to hide so I got nothing to fear right. Yeah, MI5 can come around and stick a speroscope up my ringpiece anyday of the week......all clean up thier m8.

More power to the government and the shadowy eilite of bankers pulling thier strings I say. Afterall, we need someone who 'knows better' in order to look after us properly and arrange our, wars, stock crashes, political upheaval, etc etc.

I am all for it!


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 24, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> OHHHH! I wanna be first to be water boarded! Pick me! Pick me!


Wouldn't you rather be stretched?  Water boarding is too wet.


----------



## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

MatTheCat said:


> More power to the government and the shadowy eilite of bankers pulling thier strings I say. Afterall, we need someone who 'knows better' in order to look after us properly and arrange our, wars, stock crashes, political upheaval, etc etc.
> 
> I am all for it!



Yh for now but not later when it will happen in couple of years when the econmy goes bust,
Then maybe you will have a change of thinking when rich become rich and everone else goes poor including you me and everyone,


----------



## razaron (Nov 24, 2009)

this is kind of flawed because of its efficiency.

most pirating is done via torrents. not all torrents=pirate. meaning its going to take them forever to look for whos pirating via torrents. 
i use torrents all the time, and have 69 (lol coincidence) seeding now but they are all 100%-legal-to-download-for-free-anime meaning im one extra person the ISP will always have to check (if they search for people using torrents)


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## TheCrow (Nov 24, 2009)

While i think this is a good idea. i cant imagine the uk isp's being able to police it.

Maybe on the asdl lines it will be easy to monitor / track the pirates. But for those on cable it is a common known fact modems are getting cloned left right and centre.

Hell i used one for a while and its a doddle to clone your neighbours, etc internet connection.

Fining the isp's because they are incapable of policing the new laws will only lead (in my eyes) to our connection getting worse as they will not be able to afford to mantain/upgrade the technology.

This will end up just like the whole "had a trip or fall? Sue the bastards" saga, everyone will be out for what they can get their hands on and the isp's will pass their sufferings down onto us the customers.

If movie companies, record labels want us to buy their stuff maybe they should think about lowering their prices a bit. I for one get really annoyed when i see these actors and musicians showing off in their ferrari's, private jets and mansions. If they are stupid enough to be flash and rub it in our faces then in my eyes they can afford to put more money into stopping their releases getting leaked onto the internet, etc.

Software i feel a bit differantly about, but only because i dont know how much money is in it. 

Anyway thats just my two pence worth, no doubt i will be flamed to death!


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## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 24, 2009)

Softwares are way to over priced, if you look at games maybe they sometimes take more effort to get everything right, but yet Windows, even the old ones still cost heck alot maybe close to 100 or 70, softwares costing $300 way to much


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## Steevo (Nov 24, 2009)

W1zzard said:


> it is not possible to stop piracy. before internet, people traded via mailboxes (bbs), befre digital copies they traded tapes and vhs copies. you can always make analog copies of audio material. hell i'm sure in the middle ages they conscripted some peons to handwrite unlicensed copies of books like the bible.
> 
> the only way to significantly reduce it is to lower prices, would you pirate a song that costs 5 or 10 cents to download? of course this means less profits for companies so why not fight with their usual tactics, in the big picture this costs a lot less than would be lost by drastically reducing content prices
> 
> i guess in their situation i would do the same. hell i would give everyone who reports a pirate 100/1000/10000 free songs to download



I pirate your software on a regular basis.


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## dan7777 (Nov 25, 2009)

well... i download stuff like game demo"s etc... and the odd film and game but i always buy the games i really like long live it.


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## MatTheCat (Nov 25, 2009)

maq_paki said:


> maq_paki said:
> 
> 
> > Yh for now but not later when it will happen in couple of years when the econmy goes bust,
> > Then maybe you will have a change of thinking when rich become rich and everone else goes poor including you me and everyone,



I was only kidding. (irony, we call it).

Any move at all by governments that further impinges upon the privacy of the individual has got to be seen as a very negative thing indeed, no matter what arguments that they are putting forward. Frankly, anyone who cant see that is an idiot that deserves to live in a police state (and have either them or thier kids end up in a state correction / terrorist containment / concentration camp).


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## MatTheCat (Nov 25, 2009)

TheCrow said:


> If movie companies, record labels want us to buy their stuff maybe they should think about lowering their prices a bit. I for one get really annoyed when i see these actors and musicians showing off in their ferrari's, private jets and mansions. If they are stupid enough to be flash and rub it in our faces then in my eyes they can afford to put more money into stopping their releases getting leaked onto the internet, etc.
> 
> Software i feel a bit differantly about, but only because i dont know how much money is in it.
> 
> Anyway thats just my two pence worth, no doubt i will be flamed to death!



Nope, not flamed, but thanked.

I pirate left right n centre......but it aint money lost to the moviemakers/musicians/publishing companies, cos if I didnt get their stuff for nuttin then I would simply go without it.

Games for me are different....If I really like, then I will buy....but only if I can afford it.

However, as for some of the software packages out their.....these things are damn extoritionate. Take Rosetta Stone for example....costs hundreds of pounds to buy and that is just for one language set. There is nothing special about this program...it is just a bunch of written and audio language files with a bunch of pictures. Furthermore, its an utterly crap way to learn a language. I got far more from my £10 German Grammar book followed by playing Gothic 2 in german (bought for 10 Euros) than I ever could from Rosetta Stone. And that is just one example of bundles of well known and grossly overpriced software titles around. Photoshop adobe would be another one. Who can afford to pay £2000 on a pile of arts packages?

For the masses, you either pirate or you dont use these apps. Simple as that. Anyone who flames me or comes riding on thier moral high-horse is either or all of the following:

a) a C*ck.
b) a Hypocrit
c) outrageoulsy wealthy.


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## Steevo (Nov 25, 2009)

I am all. I have a big one, I eat like a hipo, and I have a few dollars compared to a poor person.


I choose to purchase what i want, when I want and can resonably afford it. Stop your bitching and moaning, they set the price on their goods, and they have the right to, as everything is worth what the seller will pay.


Lets say you perform some work on a PC, and when all done they don't pay you and laugh about it. Sucks to be you.


But hen the story would change, you would feel wronged. Or lets say your employer decided for all lthe fucking around you do at work to withhold all your last check to help offset the cost of your ass. That OK with you?


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## Mussels (Nov 25, 2009)

Steevo said:


> I am all. I have a big one, I eat like a hipo, and I have a few dollars compared to a poor person.
> 
> 
> I choose to purchase what i want, when I want and can resonably afford it. Stop your bitching and moaning, they set the price on their goods, and they have the right to, as everything is worth what the seller will pay.
> ...




thats not the argument people are making.

The argument made here is that if a user repaired their own PC, they would be sued because it cost the PC repair company money. you STOLE their income.


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## Steevo (Nov 25, 2009)

No, piracy is stealing SOMEONE ELSES work.


Be it a CD, Movie, game, pictures, software.


You have it, have not paid their asking price, and are using it.


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## Tom20 (Nov 25, 2009)

I told my father about this and he don't believe me. Personally, I hope it does go ahead because it will stop my dad downloading when I try and play a game online! Not good because my pings are sky high and I hate it.


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## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 25, 2009)

Steevo said:


> No, piracy is stealing SOMEONE ELSES work.
> 
> 
> Be it a CD, Movie, game, pictures, software.
> ...



Actually i just downloaded it off a website that said free hosting  and well the people who put them up never mention the price they just ask for couple of thanks? so its not piracy


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## dan7777 (Nov 25, 2009)

anything downloaded is piracy really but if ya can get it free why not there aint much free in life.


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## Reefer86 (Nov 25, 2009)

This is aload of shite, thats been circulating for a while (same story) the laws never ever get passed. Remember alot of the anti piracy stuff is just scare tactics. The Government in the UK tried to pass a law to make ISP's do what is adsactly what is stated here and it has been thrown out several times. Isp's in the UK are not willing to police what people do and has been there stance for along time, plus its not good business sense to kick about 30% of the people off your network. 
Believe me ive read similar crap for along time, the isp's send you the crappy letters, (ive never ever had one) Because they want to make you use less bandwidth, the dont care what you download.


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## dan7777 (Nov 25, 2009)

Reefer86 said:


> This is aload of shite, thats been circulating for a while (same story) the laws never ever get passed. Remember alot of the anti piracy stuff is just scare tactics. The Government in the UK tried to pass a law to make ISP's do what is adsactly what is stated here and it has been thrown out several times. Isp's in the UK are not willing to police what people do and has been there stance for along time, plus its not good business sense to kick about 30% of the people off your network.
> Believe me ive read similar crap for along time, the isp's send you the crappy letters, (ive never ever had one) Because they want to make you use less bandwidth, the dont care what you download.


+1 although i did have a letter once about 5 years ago thats it since love live the internet.


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## Reefer86 (Nov 25, 2009)

As for fines being put in place, that would be a joke, they would have to take me to court and prove what i have downloaded, which would cost a shit load to do that to every person. Beleive me im from the UK and this is shite, where ever you got this info from is a crap website. Some of this stuff about fines and 3 chances is actually wrong to what the government in the UK was trying to get passed. Sounds like some editor got a message from someone else and Chinese whispers incurred.

UTTER SHITE! It's Scare tactics and will never ever happen, but the goverment in the UK got what they wanted getting it on a shitty website, and 'scaring' the people that are more naive about anti piracy/ISP's and what is going on with them.

What the UK government wanted to do was enforce UK Isp's to make the 3 Strike rule. This would be that an ISP would have to by law monitor everyones usage (yeah right LOL) and if they were to find out that you were using ilegal downloads, you would be warned a few times by the Isp, then the Isp would kick you. This would be your first strike. Then you have 2 more left and the same would happen with diffrent ISP's untill you use all three and would be kicked off the internet. Of course ISP's would not agree to this, as it would cost a fortune for the ISP's to monitor everyone and then to kick paying customers...yeah right. I mean come on, why do you think they give us 50 meg broadband with the slogan, ' you can download a HD film in 15 mins' and ' A Music track in 15 seconds' 

They know alot of people download ilegal stuff but would they ever kick me or anyone else that downloads a few things .....errr nope.   


This Law was never passed as the courts said it's not down to the ISP's to police what people do and is a Breach of Human rights. Finally the human rights laws benefit me!


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## Johnny5 (Nov 25, 2009)

Good thing in the US the lawmakers(Democrats) are putting together a bill to stop ISP's from  monitoring your traffic while you are connected to the internet.


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## MatTheCat (Nov 25, 2009)

Steevo said:


> I am all. I have a big one, I eat like a hipo, and I have a few dollars compared to a poor person.



I will wager that you are full of ($h)it.

Sitting thier with your Dual Boot Vista/7 Ultimate x64 system. Admit it, your operating systems are hookey. Both of them.

You are telling me you dont have a healthy collection of mp3s you never paid for?

Never watched a downloaded film codec?

Never copied a video game?

I call bollocks!

You are:

a) a C*ck
b) a hypocrite


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Nov 25, 2009)

MatTheCat said:


> I will wager that you are full of ($h)it.
> 
> Sitting thier with your Dual Boot Vista/7 Ultimate x64 system. Admit it, your operating systems are hookey. Both of them.
> 
> ...


I smell infraction.....

Not all of us steal MatTheCat. Some of us work hard and buy the things we want or just not have them at all. Its called integrity.


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## FordGT90Concept (Nov 25, 2009)

Johnny5 said:


> Good thing in the US the lawmakers(Democrats) are putting together a bill to stop ISP's from  monitoring your traffic while you are connected to the internet.


That's the FCC, not lawmakers, and that's not what the new net neutrality rules include.  ISPs (specifically, ISP owned routers) must look at the traffic in order to route it.  The new rules basically say they can't block "lawful" data, applications, devices, and competitor entry into the market.  They also can't discriminate any of the above and provide information that they are compliant with these rules.

In one statement: they *can* monitor traffic but they cannot interrupt it if it is lawful.


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## Triprift (Nov 25, 2009)

Johnny5 said:


> Good thing in the US the lawmakers(Democrats) are putting together a bill to stop ISP's from  monitoring your traffic while you are connected to the internet.



I wish they would have something like that here but with the likes of Stephen Conroy in government i rekon weed see hell freeze over before stuff like that happens.

And matthecat mate just chill no need to get nasty you dont know Steevo so why the comments?


----------



## MatTheCat (Nov 25, 2009)

Like I said before, I pirate. I also have original copies of various CD's, DVD's and software (generally games) but probs the majority of media that I have I never paid for (and wouldn't have paid for most of it anyway if I couldnt get it for nowt. Unless you are of the economic class whereby spending a few hundred quid (or sometimes even thousands) for a computer app you may or may not like is no more a hassle than entering your card details into a computer then it is utterly inconceivable in this day and age of the cyberspace 'free n easy' that a person will not just help themselves, especially when it is so easy to do, no adrenaline, no physical pain or harm inflicted. Yet why is it always Americans who all seem to publically proclaim 'divine honesty' when it comes to these things?

Is it something to do with Jesus?

Is it something to do with the fact they (as a general rule) are much more full of crap (without even realising it) than their european counterparts?

All the people in this thread that seem to have a down to earth approach towards this topic are people outwith the good ol US of A. American culture epitomises 'hot air' and I don't buy a single one of the many high and mighty postulations from the various American posters in this thread. They are hypocrites and liars......all of them.


----------



## rampage (Nov 25, 2009)

Mussels said:


> its been like this for years here in Au, you get caught pirating your ISP suspends your internet until you call them up and tell them you were away on holidays with an unsecure wireless connection...





lol, shhhhh you are not ment to quote me "

(come back from holidays to find my account blocked.  just didnt tell them what i did b4  i went on holidays  )


----------



## Melvis (Nov 25, 2009)

As Mussels said it has been going on in AUS for yrs now, funny thing is i was only just reading up on this today and found out a few things. They cant do much about it, they can send you a email saying that your IP Address was found downloading such files and if this is found to happen again you will be disconnected from your ISP till you explain why and or move to another ISP. People will just lie and then ya back to where ya started. Piracy from what i have seen only affects less then 9% of total sales world wide, and even the makers of games admit that it isn't much of a big deal, but would like to see it be less. Even setting your VSR to tape a show off the TV is Piracy? Where do you draw the line?


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 25, 2009)

MatTheCat said:


> Like I said before, I pirate. I also have original copies of various CD's, DVD's and software (generally games) but probs the majority of media that I have I never paid for (and wouldn't have paid for most of it anyway if I couldnt get it for nowt. Unless you are of the economic class whereby spending a few hundred quid (or sometimes even thousands) for a computer app you may or may not like is no more a hassle than entering your card details into a computer then it is utterly inconceivable in this day and age of the cyberspace 'free n easy' that a person will not just help themselves, especially when it is so easy to do, no adrenaline, no physical pain or harm inflicted. Yet why is it always Americans who all seem to publically proclaim 'divine honesty' when it comes to these things?
> 
> Is it something to do with Jesus?
> 
> ...


I would rather be full of hot air than a bigoted thief.


----------



## MatTheCat (Nov 25, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I would rather be full of hot air than a bigoted thief.



I would say that lying about what mischief you get up to in reality, only then to ride a moral high horse about it is about one of the most dispicable human character traits I can think of.

And when since did making cultural observations make someone a bigot?

An American guy came up to me once when I worked in a book shop and thanked me for "all my country's help in the 2nd Gulf War in Iraq". !?! 



No other civilised nation on Earth could produce people with such a zombiesque mentality as that. And before you inquire whether this guy had 'learning difficulties' or not, no he didn't. Furthermore, I see plenty from Americans on this forum and on others that suggest that such a level of mentality is quite widespread.

I reserve all rights to pour my general scorn upon the Nation of the Lost Soul.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 25, 2009)

MatTheCat said:


> I would say that lying about what mischief you get up to in reality, only then to ride a moral high horse about it is about one of the most dispicable human character traits I can think of.
> 
> And when since did making cultural observations make someone a bigot?
> 
> ...



And what magical country do you live in oh wise one?


----------



## TRIPTEX_CAN (Nov 25, 2009)

I would download the entire internet if I could.. and I'd make a backup too, just in case.


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## Steevo (Nov 25, 2009)

He lives in the UK. And probably dreams of visiting our sinful cities. 


Lay off the name calling, there is no need for it. Only simple minded people feel the need to degrade others to make themselves feel better.


Your form of government is just as corrupt and knieving as any other, so don't try and ride a high horse about a bunch of inbreed limp wristed kings and queens and your other form of pseudo democracy. 


And the matter at hand is piracy and the attempts to stop it. I buy my music, games, and software, use trials repeatedly by editing the registry, and watch TV on Hulu and a few other sites. 


No one is attacking you for your piracy on this site, they frown on mentions of it and how it is done, but your personal choice is just that. Yours. So lay off others who choose to do it their way.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 25, 2009)

The UK? Man I am glad most people in the UK are not like you.


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## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 25, 2009)

MatTheCat said:


> I would say that lying about what mischief you get up to in reality, only then to ride a moral high horse about it is about one of the most dispicable human character traits I can think of.
> 
> And when since did making cultural observations make someone a bigot?
> 
> ...


----------



## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 25, 2009)

dan7777 said:


> anything downloaded is piracy really but if ya can get it free why not there aint much free in life.



Not really, if i am downloading anything that does not state me to pay and is bieng given out i would download it, and iam paying monthly for the downloading i do  like $60 sumthing


----------



## pantherx12 (Nov 25, 2009)

shevanel said:


> Looks like the UK is about to pass new laws regarding anti-piracy. I've also heard this story on G4 and how if/when it comes to the US it will expect isp's to forward notices and warning will lead to permanent disruption of your internet service.
> 
> I personally think this is a great idea bec. it may lead to higher revenues in dvd, cd and game sales therefore stimulating the creation of newer and better games...possibly. This could help the PC gaming world.
> 
> ...




Actually piracy makes no difference at all to the revenue of companies.

Generally the people that buy games buy games, the people that pirate games don't buy the game,and I doubt they would regardless of what's going on they'll just not buy the game still.




Also as for ISP responsibility FUCK that shit, I don't want my ISP examining what I'mup to just because I have high download/upload stats that month.

Its called privacy chaps, regardless of whether I'm doing something wrong or not I like it.


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## AphexDreamer (Nov 25, 2009)

pantherx12 said:


> Actually piracy makes no difference at all to the revenue of companies.
> 
> Generally the people that buy games buy games, the people that pirate games don't buy the game,and I doubt they would regardless of what's going on they'll just not buy the game still.



I agree and thats exactly how I am and now that I work I plan on buying games.

They will just use this as an excuse to violate your rights. I'm glad in America we have the Constitution with the 1st, 4th, and 9th dealing with the right to privacy.


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## pantherx12 (Nov 25, 2009)

Yeah I wish we had a constitution in our country : /


In my opinion Britain is heading down a very 1984 track.


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## MoonPig (Nov 25, 2009)

tbh, the arguement over piracy vs. anti-piracy is silly. Yes i torrent, and yes, i've got somethings that cost money. But do i care? no.

Like panther said, it will never change. I buy games that i know i will play alot and i like. I bought Left 4 Dead 2. I get other crap games off mates.

And why would anyone (except compaines) buy say Photoshop CS4 for over £1000 when it's one of the most seeded things. Even the upgrade between CS3 and CS4 was stupidly expensive and their was barely any difference (to me).

I've downloaded films, but on the otherhand i've got a massive collection of DVD's that i've bought... why would i go out and buy a Blu-ray player for £100+ then the films for £10+ when i can get them for free... For example, i have SinCity on DVD, but i downloaded it in 720p. Should i get raped by my ISP for that? I've bought it once...

Prices are way too high to convince people to stop torrenting. Where to attraction when buying costs alot and torrenting costs the computer on over-night?

I'd wouldn't be surprised if over 95% of this forum has illegal acquired software, OF ANY SORT.

As for the actual topic of discussion. No, i don't want my ISP monitoring me. I don't download stuff often (Heroes and Flashforward in 720p every week) anymore. I know mates that do, and i don't care about that either. One downloaded Saw (the game) yet bought MW2 and L4D2, why? because he will play MW2 and L4D2 often, Saw we know will be shit and doesn't warrant the stupid price tags companies give games these days. It seems i only have respect for Valve, in afew weeks there will be a weekend deal on L4D2 to be like £15... I'll happily buy any of their games.

And for the arguement (that's probably got this thread closed) between some UK guy and you Americans, whats the point in doing it over the internet. Everyone can act tough. Im not on any side as i know alot of US fellas that are really good people. But for the record, 'Steevo' you can't say:



> Lay off the name calling, there is no need for it. Only simple minded people feel the need to degrade others to make themselves feel better.



then



> so don't try and ride a high horse about a bunch of inbreed limp wristed kings and queens and your other form of pseudo democracy.



I'm going to take it personally, but that sounded like an insult.


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## pantherx12 (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm going to go right ahead and say it, this would certainly work well for record companies if they got of their arses and actually thought of the world we live in.

Have tracks/albums/discographys availible for free download on their websites, why? sounds stupid right?

Well how much do you think people would be willing to pay to advertise on a legit free music download site?

If your answer is BAGS O MONEY then your right.

The record companies are just short sited and working with rules which were made before the internet, the internet has changed the way people get access to data, music including.

They need to work with the system not fight it.

Silly buggers.


I mean look at how much money sites like youtube/facebook/myspace bring in, and have you ever bought anything from them?


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## shevanel (Nov 25, 2009)

remeber the "million dollar website" where some dude in the UK I beleive , sold pixels of ad space and the idea was to fill every pixel and it'd be worth $1,000,000

It's a very good point that advertising revenue paid to a popular site is one of the best ways make money if not THE best.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 25, 2009)

Well I find it sad when new members come to TPU and bash other peoples cultures and when someone retaliates another established member defends the baboon who started it.

MatTheCat has to learn some manners if he's going to last on TPU. Steevo wrong but not the only guilty party.

Anyway this whole piracy thing was beat to death in the "Pirate Bay" thread a while back.


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## Kreij (Nov 25, 2009)

I agree, MM. It's probably time to say good night to this thread lest it become a total drama magnet.


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## DrPepper (Nov 25, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> MatTheCat has to learn some manners if he's going to last on TPU. Steevo wrong but not the only guilty party.



Says the man who has been banned a trillion times  

Anyway my opinion on this is if the law is effective then its for the greater good. I've always said if you can't afford it, that doesn't mean your entitled to it. For example I can't afford rosetta stone language program, that doesn't mean I'm entitled to it because I can't buy it.


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## MilkyWay (Nov 25, 2009)

Piracy will continue no matter the laws, its already illegal to do it.
Its not the ISP job to spy and monitor our traffic, but the government is going to force them to do so.

I think that its a privacy invasion, they wouldn't come and check what tv you have been watching or what mail you've had through your letterbox.

They would be able to find out our passwords for certain things, causing security issues. Like that time some guy bought an ebay server that had lots of log in information stored on it, luckily he was a old guy and was in the IT sector and knew what it was and told the police.

I commend the government for trying to clamp down on piracy but sometimes its unrealistic, if i own a movie and want it in HD i dont want to have to buy a blu ray player and the blu ray version at a premium to be able to watch it if i own the movie already. I dont think it will increase sales as some things are just too costly and some are just not worth the price they ask, those who dont buy a certain game but pirate it probly wouldnt buy it anyway.

In the UK its varied, some ISP cap bandwidth and download limits but other do not, some packages are unlimited some are not, the basic packages usually are limited.

1000 mens attitude does not define one mans attitude, what im saying is that because you are from somewhere it doesn't define who you are. If you let it then you are a sucker. A country is just a place to live in not a personality.

Maybe 1000 people from the UK think a certain way but that doesn't mean because i am from the UK i have to or should be said to be the same as them.

People will just encrypt data or something if they really want to do it. How cant they tell exactly what you are downloading anyway?

What if for example as i have done before, i have Rome total war but it snapped in the middle so i downloaded the game and used that as a backup! That is a perfectly legal use of torrents.

There is also a lot of legal torrents like linux distros and free software.#

EDIT: here is another thing i dont get if i can record LOST on my sky + box and i can watch it for free on tv then why cant i download it to my pc via torrents? its free one way so it seems illogical.


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## DrPepper (Nov 25, 2009)

MilkyWay said:


> 1000 mens attitude does not define one mans attitude, what im saying is that because you are from somewhere it doesn't define who you are. If you let it then you are a sucker. A country is just a place to live in not a personality.
> 
> Maybe 1000 people from the UK think a certain way but that doesn't mean because i am from the UK i have to or should be said to be the same as them.



That's the truth right there.


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## MoonPig (Nov 25, 2009)

MailMan, i could of easily had a go at MatTheCat, but whats the point, no matter what i say, a new member isn't going to take notice. And just because Steevo is established doesn't mean he can slate someone. 

Anyways, this has most likely got us all infractions, thus a pointless argument. This thread needs closing. Im out of here.


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## Steevo (Nov 25, 2009)

Established? Not by any means. I have no power or clout here, have no effect on the daily goings on other than to add my comments, ideas, or hopefully comedic twist on things, and a good portion of satire and stabs.


My comment was one that should apply in RL as well as here. We have different standards and values. 

I wouldn't for example pirate 99.9% of things, but I pirated a song a few months ago that was not available in the US. I do keep using trial software and clean my registry so I can keep using my trials. I use different e-mail addresses to register software. 


But do I go out and purposely think that pirating isn't stealing and taking someone else's money? Nope, I'm not deluded into justifying that. If you are, fine, you will bear the consequences if push comes to shove. If they never come than great for you.


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## Muhad (Nov 25, 2009)

And everything will still cost the same amount.   lol


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## MatTheCat (Nov 25, 2009)

Steevo said:


> But do I go out and purposely think that pirating isn't stealing and taking someone else's money? Nope, I'm not deluded into justifying that. If you are, fine, you will bear the consequences if push comes to shove. If they never come than great for you.



You bootleg way more than that. And why edit your registry yourself when you can jsut get a crack to do it for you? You think the fact that you cheat 'manually' makes you a better person some how.

Of course piracy is a form of stealing. But there are a million other ills in our societies that go totally unattended to, that require addressing well before internet bootlegging. 

So, I will continue to steal from Mr Gates, Mr Sony, and all their chums whenever I see fit. Infact, almost the only software that I own that is legit is games. That is because I appreciate good games and they are reasonably priced. However MW2 I have bootlegged cos that is definitely a title that deserves to be bootlegged. I ceratinly shall lose no sleep over it. Ooh, however will the directors of Activision pay the harbour rent for thier luxury yachts now...boo-hoo.

Its up to the publishing firms to come up with their own ways of living and squeezing a profit out of a file sharing global society, that doesn't involve encroaching upon basic human rights.


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## Steevo (Nov 25, 2009)

Basic human rights have nothing to do with your piracy. Basic human rights would mean that you still don't pirate, and if you want entertainment you entertain yourself.


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## TheMailMan78 (Nov 26, 2009)

MatTheCat said:


> You bootleg way more than that. And why edit your registry yourself when you can jsut get a crack to do it for you? You think the fact that you cheat 'manually' makes you a better person some how.
> 
> Of course piracy is a form of stealing. But there are a million other ills in our societies that go totally unattended to, that require addressing well before internet bootlegging.
> 
> ...


I don't pirate and if you do thats stealing which makes you a thief. Do I feel that I am better than the common thief? Yup.


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## erocker (Nov 26, 2009)

No more deviation from the posting guidelines. As of right now I have no tolerance for such immature behavior.

Read them!:
http://forums.techpowerup.com/announcement.php?f=14


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## troyrae360 (Nov 26, 2009)

AAHHaaa Me hartys,

Any you scallywags be knowin when me iso of assassin's creed 2 be commin, there be a bottle rum in for the first matey that be spottin it!


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## @RaXxaa@ (Nov 26, 2009)

pantherx12 said:


> Actually piracy makes no difference at all to the revenue of companies.
> 
> Generally the people that buy games buy games, the people that pirate games don't buy the game,and I doubt they would regardless of what's going on they'll just not buy the game still.
> 
> ...


 
The patriot act lets them monitor you and without giving you any right, so no privacy :shadedshu


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