# Big Problem!



## GSquadron (Jun 20, 2010)

Hi guys!
I bought the new cooler and it really cools too much, even the back of my graphic card.
I was touching the graphic card during the operation and i touched even the hdd.
Now i got a disk check for the both partitions of my hdd. In fact the hdd made a sound like a scrach and i touched it even in the green board. It only says to me format the hdd now. Is there a way i can save the files in my hdd??? Or even save the hdd!


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## _JP_ (Jun 20, 2010)

Was the computer turned on when you touched it?
Anyways, you should always avoid touching directly the components on a board and grab the by the edges, and the disks by the body (sides).
Failing in doing so can damage the components and, in worse cases, cause shorts with finger residue you may leave behind (always keep your hands clean when you touch electronics and grounded).

Well chances are you won't get your data back if you only get those options. Remove the HDD and try it on another computer with a different boot disk. See if windows can recognize it and thus recover the data. 

The other way would be to replace the green board from a similar disk (same size, maker, firmware, etc...), since you most likely killed it.

I can't really come up with anything, because from what you're saying the HDD really went kaput.

P.S.: Why would you go touching the green board on the HDD??


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## GSquadron (Jun 20, 2010)

yes the computer was turned on T_T
I am using a program named: partition Recovery master server edition to get my data back. As far it has found 150 files. I got a garantee for the hdd about 6 months so i am in the garauntee. Do they replace the hdd with another one??? Cuz it got really killed
I touched it in order to see if it was hotter than last time i touched it or not, but i didnt see the green board cuz it was down side.
I am using another hdd in order to recover data. The computer recognizes it, but it says is not formatted. I am using my old 160 gb sata hdd.


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## qubit (Jun 20, 2010)

How can you have too much cooling?? It's always the more the better.

It sounds like you've messed up the data on the HD somehow. Partition it, format it and reinstall. I doubt your HD is defective.

And next time backup your data.


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## _JP_ (Jun 20, 2010)

qubit said:


> And next time backup your data.



+1
External HDD are very good for this and they aren't that expensive.

Well, I really got to ask, what were you thinking?!

The fact that it was turned on makes the hypothesis of the dead HDD more confirmed. In that case I don't really believe another Windows would recognize it.
Option 2 would still be a salvation. 
You see, in this cases the data is still in the disk, but the HDD board, that contains the controller and all the other electronics, is damaged. That doesn't mean data loss, the disk just got inaccessible by normal procedures. 

Also, warranty doesn't cover improper use and non-technician installation. I guess you could hide that you touched the board and see if they would believe it and still give you the new HDD, but for your data you would have to ask for them to recover it and that would cost you...very much.

And another thing, there are programs to check on temperatures. These are really good and take advantage of the S.M.A.R.T. program on the HDD to read the internal temp on the HDD, which is the one that matters. I can name a few if you want.


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## GSquadron (Jun 20, 2010)

Well i can't even believe in touching the hdd would destroy it. Anyway thanks for the replies.
I would do my best to get the new hdd with the warranty.


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## _JP_ (Jun 20, 2010)

When it's not working, it isn't advised that you touch (because of static electricity) it but chances are slim that it would get it destroyed (if you're properly grounded). But when it's working, besides being advised or almost mandatory not to touch it, touching more than two electronic components or pins causes the odds of causing a short-circuit sky-rocket. And it's really easy to touch a board surface and be touching a couple of resistors or a dozen of pins of a chip.
This is basic electrical/electronic knowledge.

And, as I said, the HDD isn't likely to be destroyed, the data is still in the plates. The HDD board, that makes the HDD work, may have been damaged, making it malfunctioning in the view of the operating system.


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## DrPepper (Jun 20, 2010)

Did you touch the naked circuit board ? 

If you did you could have short circuited it.


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## qubit (Jun 20, 2010)

Just touching the PCB of a graphics card, HD or other device with your bare fingers is extremely unlikely to damage it. You have to apply some force (pushing or impact) catch on a component and pull it off or touch with a metallic object to short it out.

The fact that you can recover files with that recovery program tells you that the HD is working. You messed up the partitions in some way that you haven't told us. It's really not that hard to trash the data on a HD.

And I can only repeat to back up your data. I can't stress enough how important this is. Was it just the OS that got trashed with no backup, or personal data such as emails, pictures, music etc? This is the stuff that's critical to back up.


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## GSquadron (Jun 20, 2010)

Yes i have touched the naked circuit board with foots naked T_T
How can i circuit it out?
And EVERYTHING got trashed, cuz i have all things in the hdd. OS and everything you can think of.


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## crush3r (Jun 20, 2010)

Moisture from your fingers could connect two components that aren't supposed to be connected, blowing it


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## _JP_ (Jun 20, 2010)

crush3r said:


> Moisture from your fingers could connect two components that aren't supposed to be connected, blowing it



Not to mention the skin itself is a electrically conductive surface.


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## crush3r (Jun 20, 2010)

_JP_ said:


> Not to mention the skin itself is a electrically conductive surface.



Agreed!

Also, if he was charged staticly he could've damaged the components by touching them.


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## GSquadron (Jun 20, 2010)

Well what happened has happened. What to do now?


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## qubit (Jun 20, 2010)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Well what happened has happened. What to do now?



Did you recover your files? Yes? Then reinstall as I said above.


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## GSquadron (Jun 20, 2010)

To recover files it says i need more than 10 days T_T
Should i use a screwdriver to short it out?


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## _JP_ (Jun 20, 2010)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> To recover files it says i need more than 10 days T_T



If that's how long it needs and if your data is very important to you...just let it finnish.



Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Should i use a screwdriver to short it out?



Please explain yourself, because what you just said doesn't sound right to me.


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## WhiteLotus (Jun 20, 2010)

Why the hell would you be poking around your case when the power is on?? This is computing 101, it's just not worth it. If you wanted to know the temperature of your components there are monitoring programs that allow you to do this.

Shame you learnt the hard way.


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## qubit (Jun 20, 2010)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> To recover files it says i need more than 10 days T_T
> Should i use a screwdriver to short it out?



What the hell is T_T??! Short out what?

Do you have any idea what you're doing? People want to help you, but then you talk gibberish in almost every post.


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## _JP_ (Jun 20, 2010)

qubit said:


> What the hell is T_T??! Short out what?
> 
> Do you have any idea what you're doing? People want to help you, but then you talk gibberish in almost every post.



I think "T_T" = 
It's just another way of doing it.
Electronics is not strong with this one.


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## GSquadron (Jun 20, 2010)

Yes T_T=crying
@qubit
You said: catch on a component and pull it off or touch with a metallic object to short it out
Now i just can't figure what exactly are you trying to say, but what i got is touching a screwdriver with the hdd green board will short it out. If i am wrong pls reply!


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## Black Panther (Jun 20, 2010)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Yes T_T=crying
> @qubit
> You said: catch on a component and pull it off or touch with a metallic object to short it out
> Now i just can't figure what exactly are you trying to say, but what i got is touching a screwdriver with the hdd green board will short it out. If i am wrong pls reply!





Please DON'T try to short anything out.

It won't make your HDD do its recovery any faster. If anything it would make your HDD fail all the more.

Perhaps try to be a bit more cautious next time. Do some research on the net or ask about it here.... *before* and not after...


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## _JP_ (Jun 20, 2010)

I think Qbit was referring to what has to be done  in order to cause a short-circuit, not what you will have to do to save your HDD.
Again, causing short-circuits IS BAD!

Not only will it not resolve your problem, it will aggravate the situation by definitely killing what is left of your HDD. 
Take the time needed to recover the data, then do as Qbit said: Format and reinstall.


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## qubit (Jun 20, 2010)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Yes T_T=crying
> @qubit
> You said: catch on a component and pull it off or touch with a metallic object to short it out
> Now i just can't figure what exactly are you trying to say, but what i got is touching a screwdriver with the hdd green board will short it out. If i am wrong pls reply!



I was just saying that if you accidentally catch on a component, you can pull it off and damage the board. As I said before, just touching a board with your fingers is extremely unlikely to damage it. Especially if it's plugged into the motherboard, where any static is likely to be dispersed before it can harm it.

Yeah, touching the board with a screwdriver could possibly kill it, depending on exactly how it happens. In most instances I would expect either nothing to happen, or a malfunction from the short which can be cleared with a reset, or switching the PC off and on again.

The fact you can recover your files, suggests that the HD is physically ok and the data is simply corrupted.

Are you trying to recover the operating system, or personal data? If it's the OS, don't bother and just reinstall it.


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## GSquadron (Jun 20, 2010)

Normally the thread name is big problem. So i am trying to recover all the data except the os cuz i already installed it in my old hdd.


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## Black Panther (Jun 20, 2010)

Aleksander, are you online from this same computer right now?


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## GSquadron (Jun 20, 2010)

Yes. I have connected my old hdd with my 1TB and i am trying to recover all the data for 10 days or even more.


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## Black Panther (Jun 20, 2010)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Yes i have touched the naked circuit board with foots naked T_T
> How can i circuit it out?
> And EVERYTHING got trashed, cuz i have all things in the hdd. *OS and everything you can think of.*







Black Panther said:


> Aleksander, are you online from this same computer right now?





Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Yes. I have connected my old hdd with my 1TB and i am trying to recover all the data for 10 days or even more.



 How did you manage to boot if the OS is in the 'trashed' HDD?


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## _JP_ (Jun 20, 2010)

So is everything stable and running?

Seems weird to me that although you touched a running board with bare fingers and, as you said, bare feet on the ground, the "probable" short-circuit you caused didn't made more damage to the drive. I guess you just got really lucky and the controller just went messed up, not corrupting the entire data, but not leaving you with a expensive paperweight either.

After you finish recovering your data (all of it), I advise you to download the HDD manufacturer's diagnostic tool, make a boot disk/floppy/USB pen and run some tests to check on the integrity of your HDD. Although you are able to recover the data, something might still be malfunctioning.

Also, being the first who said it, next time you want to check the temperatures, download a monitoring program. I can recommend you a few if you want, just ask.
These programs are designed to read the temperatures of the equipment and help avoiding the situation of having to "put your finger". They read the temperature where it matters and gives you the correct reading.

@Black Panther:


Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Normally the thread name is big problem. So i am trying to recover all the data except the os cuz i already installed it in my old hdd.



Does it help?


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## GSquadron (Jun 20, 2010)

I had two partitions in my 1 TB hdd. One had the OS and one had all the data i have gathered for 4 years computing. Now i used the windows xp 64-bit disc, formated the 160 GB samsung and the OS in my 1 TB hdd, but i didn't format the partition where all the data have been. I installed the OS in my samsung hdd. Not in the 1 TB partition cuz after format it said: FATAL ERROR

@_JP_
I had opened a thread before mentioning the temperature of my rig (cpu for instance)
I just was curious of touching the hdd, cuz before it had a lot of high temperature, so when i touched it, it was very hot.
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=124734


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## Formula350 (Jun 21, 2010)

Looks like the partition table got screwed up to me... There is still the chance something else happened though.

I've had a lot of things happen to me when it comes to computers, 90% of the time nothing bad happens. The most related accident I encountered was just a few weeks ago, with a hard drive. I've got limited desk space and since I've been toying with my computer so much, I haven't put it in my computer case. Instead I made a cheap tech-bench with an old motherboard tray. What that leaves is no where to put the hard drives, so I had them stacked flat, one on top of the other. What happened was when I was moving one over (can't remember why, to check a model number maybe?),it slid off the top of the other one and the PCB contacted the cover of the other, which is metal  Heard a little pop and the short triggered the power supply's Short Circuit Protection, shutting my PC down. I winced at the pain of my error and proceeded to fire the PC back up. Not a thing happened, everything works as if it never occured! 

Now I'm not saying I wasn't lucky, but I've touched bare PCB many of times in the past, to check temps of a component typically (a chip, a voltage regulator, memory, etc) and never had anything occur. 

Usually, my bad luck comes in the form of a screw driver slip where I hit the PCB  SO many of the times I have somehow gotten lucky enough where nothing has happened, *but* there has been a time or two where I've knocked off a really small resistor  The most memorable case was with the first PC I ever built, the Athlon 550 Slot-A right when it came out! After having it for awhile, for some reason I had the ambition to pull the plastic cover off AND the front heatsink aluminum plate, which required removing 4 veeerry small e-clips. The only way to really get them off is either a screwdriver and pushing/prying, or if it is out in the open grab it with a pliers. It wasn't in the open, it was being pressed on by the spring-steel retention "clip". Long story short, the screw driver slipped off the e-clip and slid against the back side of the CPU area of the PCB knocking of 3 or 4 resistors  I was shaking I was so worried! But, that I think was the begining of my luck with computers, as it worked just fine O_O Sold it to a friend of a friend, and it lived out it's life working fine for him heh

[/story]

If I ever touch a component while the PC is on, I do one of two things: Make sure my finger is dry (sweat is basically salty water, which conducts electricity much better), or I use my knuckle. If it's a small space or component, I'll use my pinky finger since it won't contact a large area 

Now I'm not condoning the action of touching live components, but if you are going to I'm just trying to offer some helpful advice. If you feel the need to touch a component, do it with extreme caution! Not just because the PC is on, but some components get *far far* hotter than you might think! Some of those big black squares (chokes are their name, some have a 2R on them) can get blistering hot! I learned that the hard way  It was a on a laptop motherboard that I was diagnosing (it was old and my own, chill out people lol), never would I have thought it would have ever be that incredibly hot O_O 

As for the person who said "use monitoring software", well I guess I'm going to go to you since you must know of some repository of magical software to do this!  Not a lot of things on computer parts can have their temps read :\ And some things like RAM, only certain manufacturers have modules that you can read the temps. Same with video card memory. I've also never owned a component that can read MOSFET or VRM temps  That leaves either a IR temp gun or a temperature probe, both of which wouldn't work all _that_ well when so many components are in a small space where temperatures differ greatly from one to the next. Only way to get a good idea is by using the Finger Probe, which is free and gives instant feedback


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## GSquadron (Jun 21, 2010)

Yeah you are right when saying finger probe, just why i did. Now i am going to format all the hdd cuz it didnt find any other data after blackout T_T (well it really happens here)


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## Formula350 (Jun 21, 2010)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Yeah you are right when saying finger probe, just why i did. Now i am going to format all the hdd cuz it didnt find any other data after blackout T_T (well it really happens here)



Well you could still attempt to get it back by fixing the partition table. Might also be the Master Boot Record, but I really don't know. The software side of HDDs is one of the ares I'm not that knowledgeable on 

I'd give Partition Magic a go. Otherwise if there isn't anything it can do, there are lots of programs around that can read data off a "dead" HDD. Since yours isn't really dead, it should be able to easily get what you want off of it. Now sadly, I can't offer any suggestions to a program, because the last time I ever used one was a good 7 years ago, and it was a DOS program which sucked lol I have a feeling you would need to use DOS anyways though for direct hardware access.


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## _JP_ (Jun 21, 2010)

Formula350 said:


> *As for the person who said "use monitoring software"*, well I guess I'm going to go to you since you must know of some repository of magical software to do this!



Is it me?  
I bet it is me...
I want to know if it is me...


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## Steevo (Jun 21, 2010)

Touching the wrong two resistors, or pins on a controller chip on a running HDD can send power to the heads causing it to write to the disk. It takes very little power. My 2TB was experimented on by me and yes, damaging a partition especially the first one is easy by just touching certain pins/resistors.


The back of your graphics card is unlikely to cause issues though as it deals with amps and volts, not millionths of amps and tenths of volts.


Sweat is salt water, and thus conductive.


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## qubit (Jun 21, 2010)

Steevo said:


> The back of your graphics card is unlikely to cause issues though as it deals with amps and volts, not millionths of amps and tenths of volts.



I beg to differ. Shorting any kind of electric/electronic circuit will cause it to malfunction. And on a graphics card, where the power usage is way higher than a HD (ie the volts and amps are much bigger) the short circuit current can well kill it in milliseconds. Therefore, keeping a graphics card short circuit free is a really good idea.

Now, how conductive is sweat at 3v, 5v? Enough to cause a malfunction? I dunno, so I'll leave that one open. It's certainly not a good idea to leave it there and can cause corrosion if not wiped off.


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## Formula350 (Jun 22, 2010)

_JP_ said:


> Is it me?
> I bet it is me...
> I want to know if it is me...



heh Probably was. It's on the first page, I think with in the first 10 posts.




qubit said:


> Now, how conductive is sweat at 3v, 5v? Enough to cause a malfunction? I dunno, so I'll leave that one open. It's certainly not a good idea to leave it there and can cause corrosion if not wiped off.



While I haven't specifically tested it recently, and I know that there is only the voltage passing and not amperage. With that said, I have used a multimeter a lot recently and if you are using your fingers to keep the wires against the probes, that is enough to skew the readings. I wanted to see how much voltage would pass through me and standing on the wire (bare foot of course) and gripping the probe between my fingers will pretty much read full voltage  (all DC voltage, from low 2v to 20v)

If you are really interested though I could run some tests and record the outcome


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 22, 2010)

When you get a chance buy one of these







Its a hard driver rejuventator..............





























j/k.


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## Formula350 (Jun 22, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> When you get a chance but one of these
> 
> Its a hard driver rejuventator
> 
> j/k.



I know what that _actually_ is!  Used it before as well heh


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 22, 2010)

Formula350 said:


> I know what that _actually_ is!  Used it before as well heh



Thats a 75 pounder. Should be enough to fix his HD.


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## Formula350 (Jun 22, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Thats a 75 pounder. Should be enough to fix his HD.



haha This all reminded me of this thread (read the whole thing, it's worth it, at least the posts by the OP)
http://forums.amd.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=12&threadid=130739


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## GSquadron (Jun 22, 2010)

What is even worse now i don't have the warranty with me T_T as i lost it (recycled)
Is there a way to get a service for my hdd even if not having the warranty?


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## Formula350 (Jun 22, 2010)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> What is even worse now i don't have the warranty with me T_T as i lost it (recycled)
> Is there a way to get a service for my hdd even if not having the warranty?



If it falls under the manufacturer's warranty, I don't see why not. Of the few things I've warrantied DIRECTLY from the manufacturer, I haven't been asked to provide any proof of purchase (most recent thing was my memory a few years back through Corsair). I'd go to the site and see if they provide an RMA form, as that will have addition info as to what they'll require from you. If they do require a receipt, and you bought the item online, you might be able to get a digital copy from them if you ask nicely


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## 95Viper (Jun 22, 2010)

Formula350 said:


> As for the person who said "use monitoring software", well I guess I'm going to go to you since you must know of some repository of magical software to do this!  Not a lot of things on computer parts can have their temps read :\ And some things like RAM, only certain manufacturers have modules that you can read the temps. Same with video card memory. I've also never owned a component that can read MOSFET or VRM temps  That leaves either a IR temp gun or a temperature probe, both of which wouldn't work all _that_ well when so many components are in a small space where temperatures differ greatly from one to the next. Only way to get a good idea is by using the Finger Probe, which is free and gives instant feedback



Huh?

I personally don't trust most software to be as accurate as temp probes, but...
HWinfo32 and GPU-z, as well as some others, will pull this info for VRM or MOSfets if they are built for this purpose.

HWInfo

GPU-z


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## Formula350 (Jun 22, 2010)

95Viper said:


> Huh?
> 
> I personally don't trust most software to be as accurate as temp probes, but...
> HWinfo32 and GPU-z, as well as some others, will pull this info for VRM or MOSfets if they are built for this purpose.
> ...



I'll agree that they can be quite misleading in some cases, or quite inaccurate in others. Example is a lot of people say that AMD OverDrive doesn't read CPU temps correctly, and that is probably true to a certain degree (not temp degree heh). I was bored yesterday and was looking at AOD and thought I'd do a test. So I fired up Gigabyte's EasyTune to see what it was saying for a CPU temp and compared it to AOD's list of temperatures. Turns out "Temp2" is the same as EasyTune's. Then I fired up IntelBurnTest to load up the CPU, watching Temp2 and both the Core temps, in AOD. What I found out was kind of interesting. To get Temp2's reading, you take one of the Core temp's, divide by 3, then add the quotient to the original temp (provided you are running all the cores at the same clock). So in my case (these are idle temps): Core temp was 22.5C, Temp2 was 30C. Which makes sense since 22.5 / 3 = 7.5, with 7.5+22.5 =  30! And just to make sure it wasn't a fluke, I had loaded the core up just enough to raise the temp to 25c and repeated the process, which came up with the same findings! 

Anyways, back on "off" topic lol While yes, there are some pieces of hardware that have the ability to provide temps for certain things, but that is exactly what I had said before _SOME_ do. In my case, nothing provides them. So again as I had mentioned, that leaves us with the only means we have: Finger Probe


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## _JP_ (Jun 22, 2010)

Formula350 said:


> Anyways, back on "off" topic lol While yes, there are some pieces of hardware that have the ability to provide temps for certain things, but that is exactly what I had said before _SOME_ do. In my case, nothing provides them. So again as I had mentioned, that leaves us with the only means we have: Finger Probe



I agree with you, the finger probe is the best when it comes to having an idea of how hot it is at that right moment. But I'd like you to see my point of view, so you don't go thinking I'm not aware of the issues with monitoring programs. I still recommend the monitoring programs to most people because it's safer for them to check out temps this way. It's ok to check with the finger, as long as you know what you are doing, something that Alexsander clearly demonstrated here not to know. Besides, finger probing only gives you at best 5 or 6 levels of measurement:

- Cold;
- Normal;
- Warm;
- Hot;
- Very hot;
- 2nd degree burn.

And there's still the risk of shot-circuit or static voltage.
Most of the times, you can just rely on the BIOS temperature readings to get an idea of how hot your case is running, because some components can get hot very much (e.g. graphics-cards), but they are designed or supposed to run like this (meaning they can handle it) and as long as they run in a correctly built system (air flow), there's really nothing to worry about.

I know not all hardware posses the sensor and some are not that accurate. Still, it's better nowadays compared to what it was years ago. For example, I have a Maxtor that already has S.M.A.R.T. but doesn't have the temp readings and my GPU (in the system specs) that doesn't have one either, but I've always had special attention to the case air flow and the correct cooling so I don't have to put my finger in there and so far I've had no problems related to cooling. (the only thing that worries me actually is the RiAtlo on the card, but I'll get a HS eventually)

P.S.: I wanted to reply earlier to you, Formula, as soon as you confirmed if it was me you meant to talk about monitoring programs.


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## GSquadron (Jun 22, 2010)

Guys, i got lucky this time, for real. Even if all my 4 year files collection got deleted and i didn't have the warranty, the seller identified the name and the serial number of my hdd. They said it is no need for the warranty letter or additional money, just a repair or a replace of the hdd and it is ready for tomorrow! Anyway thanks to all replies and i really learned a hard lesson i hope it never happens again to me and never happens to you all!


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## _JP_ (Jun 22, 2010)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Guys, i got lucky this time, for real. Even if all my 4 year files collection got deleted and i didn't have the warranty, the seller identified the name and the serial number of my hdd. They said it is no need for the warranty letter or additional money, just a repair or a replace of the hdd and it is ready for tomorrow! Anyway thanks to all replies and i really learned a hard lesson i hope it never happens again to me and never happens to you all!



Good to know, cheers man!


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## qubit (Jun 22, 2010)

Aleksander Dishnica said:


> Guys, i got lucky this time, for real. Even if all my 4 year files collection got deleted and i didn't have the warranty, the seller identified the name and the serial number of my hdd. They said it is no need for the warranty letter or additional money, just a repair or a replace of the hdd and it is ready for tomorrow! Anyway thanks to all replies *and i really learned a hard lesson i hope it never happens again to me and never happens to you all!*



Nice one. Glad you got the drive replaced 

Yes, that was a real hard lesson and I never want to hear again that you lost your files because of a lack of backups, ya hear buddy?!  There's only one thing you can ever guarantee about a hard drive or SSD: at some point you will lose all your data on it. Period. If it's not due to a software glitch somewhere along the line, then the hardware is absolutely guaranteed to fail eventually. Think of data that you only have one copy of as temporary. Is that really good enough? Thought not. So I say it again my friend:

_*Backup! Backup! Backup! Backup! Backup! Backup!*_


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