# Water Cooling Project Log



## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

Ok...Thought i would jump into some water cooling and try my hand at it!!
This will be my first time water cooling so im a total noob at it!!
Here are the parts ill be working with!!
APOGEE™ GT Extreme Performance Universal CPU water-block 
MCR220 Quiet Power Series DUAL120mm Heat Exchanger 
MCP655™ 12 Volts Industrial Pump with speed controller
Custom built acrylic reservoir
7/16" clear tubing


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## etrigan420 (May 22, 2009)

Outstanding  

One of these days I'm gonna jump in and try it...

It will be excellent to hear things from a first timers perspective.


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## HammerON (May 22, 2009)

Once you start water cooling..........
Air cooling sucks


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

etrigan420 said:


> Outstanding
> 
> One of these days I'm gonna jump in and try it...
> 
> It will be excellent to hear things from a first timers perspective.



Yea going to be qite a ride im sure!!
Just got my case stripped...Post pic in a sec.


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

Heres the case ill be useing!!
This case doesnt have great cable management but ill do my best!!
Its nice and roomie though so thats a plus!!


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## Duxx (May 22, 2009)

I'm a noob also, and quite interested in some H2o cooling, will be following   Good luck!


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## etrigan420 (May 22, 2009)

Asylum said:


> Heres the case ill be useing!!
> This case doesnt have great cable management but ill do my best!!
> Its nice and roomie though so thats a plus!!
> http://img.techpowerup.org/090521/IMG_0350.jpg



Nice and roomy...AND a kickass modular PS.  I've got a frikkin rats nest.

Mind telling us where you purchased the WC parts from and how much you paid?


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

etrigan420 said:


> Nice and roomy...AND a kickass modular PS.  I've got a frikkin rats nest.
> 
> Mind telling us where you purchased the WC parts from and how much you paid?



I picked them up here on the for sale forums!!
Payed $130 shipped for all of it!!


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

Got the rad mounted!!
Would not fit on the inside so i took the fans off and mounted
them to the inside and the rad on the back!!
Had to go buy some longer screws to make it work!!
Ill just have to decide where im going to route the lines!!
Heres a couple of pics!!


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## MRCL (May 22, 2009)

I'll be watching this, since I was a n00b too not long ago.
If you have questions, feel free to ask.

And yes, once you went h20, air cooling is just not the same...


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## Deleted member 24505 (May 22, 2009)

Turn the rad upside down if you can,it will mean easier/shorter pipe routing to the inside of the case.

Oh and H2o FTW.


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

tigger said:


> Turn the rad upside down if you can,it will mean easier/shorter pipe routing to the inside of the case.
> 
> Oh and H2o FTW.



Would it be better to have the fittings at the bottom?
I thought you would have better flow threw the rad if they were on top!!
Like i say im a noob at this so all imput is helpful!!


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## Sasqui (May 22, 2009)

Asylum said:


> Would it be better to have the fittings at the bottom?
> I thought you would have better flow threw the rad if they were on top!!
> Like i say im a noob at this so all imput is helpful!!



Less chance of trapping air the way you've got it.  Swiftech does make a 220 with a built-in resevoir for flipping it the other way.  Did you consider a radbox for mounting it?


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

Sasqui said:


> Less chance of trapping air the way you've got it.  Swiftech does make a 220 with a built-in resevoir for flipping it the other way.  Did you consider a radbox for mounting it?



No i dont even know what a radbox is!! lol


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## Dia01 (May 22, 2009)

HammerON said:


> Once you start water cooling..........
> Air cooling sucks



I agree totally.  I don't OC half as much as some of the guys on TPU but for some reason, H20 draws me in!


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## Sasqui (May 22, 2009)

Asylum said:


> No i dont even know what a radbox is!! lol



Hahaa... no problem - took me a while to figure it out till I saw one in a build log.  It's basically a plastic cage that pushes the radiator away from the back of the case for better airflow without having to remove case metal.

Jabtech has them... along with some good pictures to show how they help mounting:

http://www.jab-tech.com/Swiftech-RadBox-MCB-120-Revision-2-Black-pr-3337.html

Scroll down on the page... you can even have your barbs facing the case


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

Sasqui said:


> Hahaa... no problem - took me a while to figure it out till I saw one in a build log.  It's basically a plastic cage that pushes the radiator away from the back of the case for better airflow without having to remove case metal.
> 
> Jabtech has them... along with some good pictures to show how they help mounting:
> 
> ...



Thats pretty sweet...I might look into that later when i get this first setup under my belt!!


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## Deleted member 24505 (May 22, 2009)

Personally,i found having the rads upside down made no differance.You can always leave it unscrewed while you bleed the air from it,then screw it on.

Like sasqui said,you can use a rad box and have the barbs facing the back of the case.If you have the rad the way it is,it will mean long pipe runs down to the pci slots,were i guess they are gonna go through.

I would also consider replacing the plastic barbs with metal ones too,just personal preferance though i guess.


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

Im at work right now but i have the water block installed on the mother board 
and everything layed out ready to go!!
Ill jump on it as soon as i get home and set this thing up!!
Ill post some pics when i get the mother board in!!


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## MRCL (May 22, 2009)

Asylum said:


> Im at work right now but i have the water block installed on the mother board
> and everything layed out ready to go!!
> Ill jump on it as soon as i get home and set this thing up!!
> Ill post some pics when i get the mother board in!!



Keep us updated  Made a project log myself when I built my first loop, its really fun to do and document the stuff. I wish you luck that you don't encounter any leaks


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## Sasqui (May 22, 2009)

MRCL said:


> Keep us updated  Made a project log myself when I built my first loop, its really fun to do and document the stuff. I wish you luck that you don't encounter any leaks



Ditto!  If you haven't already done a leak test, EastcoastHandle put together a really good summary:  http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=52032
There's a section on shorting pins on the PSU to run the pump without having any jiuce to the motherboard (Don't forget to remove other power connectors like the 4 pin CPU and PCIe if you do this).


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## MRCL (May 22, 2009)

Sasqui said:


> Ditto!  If you haven't already done a leak test, EastcoastHandle put together a really good summary:  http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=52032
> There's a section on shorting pins on the PSU to run the pump without having any jiuce to the motherboard (Don't forget to remove other power connectors like the 4 pin CPU and PCIe if you do this).



Its best if you run the pump on a seperate PSU. That way you eliminate the chance of forgetting to remove a plugged in wire.


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

I have a couple power supplies laying around!!
So i can hook one of those up if i need to!!
In case i have a leak or something and have to drain it!!


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## computertechy (May 22, 2009)

so you did jump in on the action! 

good job mate

btw for securing your pipe i have never liked those nylon hose clips!(if your using them)

use some jubilee clips aka worm drive but dont do them up too tight as you are using blastic nylon barbs

good luck my brudda!


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

Thanks man...Ill be home in about  30 minutes and get this thing rolling!!


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## Deleted member 24505 (May 22, 2009)

I use jubilee clips,not the best looking,but leak proof.

Enjoy them lower temps


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

Ok i got my water block installed on my mother board and installed in my case!!
Going to install my res next!!
Looks like ill be putting it in the back by the mother board!!
Heres a pic of the mother board installed with water block!!


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## HammerON (May 22, 2009)

Looking good!


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

I will also be installing these!!
Im not putting them in my water loop yet!!
Need to get some experence first!!


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## MRCL (May 22, 2009)

Asylum said:


> I will also be installing these!!
> Im not putting them in my water loop yet!!
> Need to get some experence first!!
> http://img.techpowerup.org/090522/IMG_0349.jpg



Haha I did like that too. One month later my cards where also liquid cooled, I couldn't resist


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

Ok got my res installed!! It was pretty simple!!
Just lined it up like i wanted it and drilled the screws in!!
Also installed my graphics cards and run some of my wireing!!
Heres a pic!!


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

I have started on the tubing now and everything seems to be going fine!!
Going to take a quick smoke break and ill be right back to finish up!!
Post some pics in a bit!!


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## MRCL (May 22, 2009)

Asylum said:


> I have started on the tubing now and everything seems to be going fine!!
> Going to take a quick smoke break and ill be right back to finish up!!
> Post some pics in a bit!!



Smoke breaks are important.


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

Yea got to have that smoke when your doing some detailed work
on something!! 
Relieves the stress a bit!!
Got it all hooked up and filling it now!!
Will post a pic of it up and running in a few!!


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## MRCL (May 22, 2009)

Asylum said:


> Yea got to have that smoke when your doing some detailed work
> on something!!
> Relieves the stress a bit!!
> Got it all hooked up and filling it now!!
> Will post a pic of it up and running in a few!!



Lets hope all goes well Its a fantastic feeling when you first see the water rushing through the tubing... I always enjoy that moment


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

Ok its up and running!!
Havent seen any leaks so far!!
Shook it around a bit to make sure all of the air was out of the lines!!
All seems well!!
This pump must kick arse cause the water flow is moving very fast and i have it turned down on 2 out of 5!!
Heres a pic!!


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## MRCL (May 22, 2009)

That looks very nice!
How exactly is your loop designed? Is it pump - rad - block - res -pump?
And that upper connection of the pump there... That looks like an unhealthy kink; or does it just look like that?


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

Its pump - rad - block - res -pump..just like you thought!!
Is that the right way or should it go different?
Top of the pump looks fine to me..It doesnt seem to be restricting at all!!


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## MRCL (May 22, 2009)

Asylum said:


> Its pump - rad - block - res -pump..just like you thought!!
> Is that the right way or should it go different?
> Top of the pump looks fine to me..It doesnt seem to be restricting at all!!



I'm not an expert in water cooling or thermic physics... but if the water goes to the rad first, then to the block, it heats up. If it then goes into the res, the water there heats up aswell, and... no wait, either way, the CPU should get colder water. I was just thinking too far again


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## Sasqui (May 22, 2009)

Asylum said:


> Ok its up and running!!
> Havent seen any leaks so far!!
> Shook it around a bit to make sure all of the air was out of the lines!!
> All seems well!!
> ...



Nice   - I took 4 months, you did it in a day or two!  Granted, I modded the pump and cannabalised a Koolance system, modded a HAF 932 case, yada, yada, yada...

And as for turning the pump down, things will probably stabilize and you'll find yourself turning it up to full.  Mine is almost dead silent.



MRCL said:


> I'm not an expert in water cooling or thermic physics... but if the water goes to the rad first, then to the block, it heats up. If it then goes into the res, the water there heats up aswell, and... no wait, either way, the CPU should get colder water. I was just thinking too far again



Yea, he's pumping water to the rad (coldest), then to the CPU (hottest).  Hell, in a closed system, I don't think it'd make a big diff either way though


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## Asylum (May 22, 2009)

I just checked my temps and they suck!!
E8600 @ 4.25  1.4 volts  idle @ 48c and 65c @ load!!
Hell thats no better than my air cooler!!
Dont see any air in the lines and ive leaned it side ways to see if it had any in the block or rad and shook it on the way back up and no air came out!!
Then took the block off and checked the seal to the CPU and the paste was even on both sides!!
Reapplied new paste and remounted block and still have same temps!!
What could be wrong?
The water is flowing very well...I can see it in the res shooting up!!
Any ideas?


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## Assassin48 (May 23, 2009)

Do a push pull if you can

Also watercooling starts to show when you start overclocking


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## Asylum (May 23, 2009)

The pump is turned all the way up (my bad) it just looked that way!!
Dont know what it is...There are no kinks in my line and the flow looks good!!


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## Deleted member 24505 (May 23, 2009)

You may need a bigger rad for that quad.

I'm running my 4850 and my 6750 oc'd to 3.6ghz(1.41v) off a 120.2 and my temps are fine.


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## erocker (May 23, 2009)

Asylum said:


> Its pump - rad - block - res -pump..just like you thought!!
> Is that the right way or should it go different?
> Top of the pump looks fine to me..It doesnt seem to be restricting at all!!


That is the correct way to do it.




Asylum said:


> I just checked my temps and they suck!!
> E8600 @ 4.25  1.4 volts  idle @ 48c and 65c @ load!!
> Hell thats no better than my air cooler!!
> Dont see any air in the lines and ive leaned it side ways to see if it had any in the block or rad and shook it on the way back up and no air came out!!
> ...



Take the block off and reseat it.  Make sure your pump is actually running.

***The bend going to the top of your pump looks pretty restrictive to me.


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## Hayder_Master (May 23, 2009)

nice setup , good work


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## mlee49 (May 23, 2009)

Hey great setup man. I'm impressed that this is your first setup.

I agree about the bend on your tubing from your pump.  Any bends in the tubing will restrict flow.


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## Asylum (May 23, 2009)

Drained the loop and reversed the flow but my temps only went down 1c
Took the block off and checked...Seems to be making good contact!!
What could it be?


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## JrRacinFan (May 23, 2009)

Whats your ambient temp Asylum?

Oh also...

I'm working on a watercooling loop myself.


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## Asylum (May 23, 2009)

70f


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## Deleted member 24505 (May 23, 2009)

Thats a high ambiant.Mines usually no more than 20ish.


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## JrRacinFan (May 23, 2009)

Asylum said:


> 47c





tigger said:


> Thats a high ambiant.Mines usually no more than 20ish.



Yeah, exactly why your having a hard time keeping those temps low. No offense but something you should have considered from the start. Granted the loop looks great man!


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## MRCL (May 23, 2009)

47c, you live in the desert or what?  

And overclocked chips need big heat transfer. I have a triple and a single rad, granted two cards than run hot also. It goes just as high as 65° above 1.45v, thats why a seperate loop is due soon.
A dual rad, especially as thin as yours can have a hard time dealing with those temps.


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## BumbleBee (May 23, 2009)

that reservoir is as big as your ambient temp. i'll be honest i'm not a fan of your case I really don't like Apevia cases. this will be a great learning experience your loop is much better than mine was I had a external fish tank pump, old grout bucket for a reservoir, modified auto radiator I got from a mcse class mate and some no name tubing from the local hardware store but this was when liquid cooling market was born. I have always setup my loops in Reservoir -> Pump -> CPU -> Radiator -> Reservoir. forget Push and Pull, Push and Pull favors High Speed Fans and since High Speed Fans favor Thick Radiators with large Fin Density stick with Low Speed Fans in Pull until you can purchase a new Radiator. lol at smoke break when you have a smoke make sure you play some punch-out.


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## Sasqui (May 23, 2009)

Asylum said:


> I just checked my temps and they suck!!
> E8600 @ 4.25  1.4 volts  idle @ 48c and 65c @ load!!
> Hell thats no better than my air cooler!!
> Dont see any air in the lines and ive leaned it side ways to see if it had any in the block or rad and shook it on the way back up and no air came out!!
> ...





JrRacinFan said:


> Whats your ambient temp Asylum?
> 
> Oh also...
> 
> I'm working on a watercooling loop myself.





Asylum said:


> 47c





MRCL said:


> 47c, you live in the desert or what?
> 
> And overclocked chips need big heat transfer. I have a triple and a single rad, granted two cards than run hot also. It goes just as high as 65° above 1.45v, thats why a seperate loop is due soon.
> A dual rad, especially as thin as yours can have a hard time dealing with those temps.



Asylum - ambient means the air temp in the room.  47c is about 117f!  And that's one HELL of an overclock!!!

I have a triple rad and see idle temps around 38c and load temps up to 52c with my E6600 CPU only at 3.2 right now (still messing with dividers and shit).  Air temp is about 24c (75f).

What are you using for temp monitor?

Bumblebee has good points, good airflow through the rad is as important as it is with an air cooler.


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## Asylum (May 23, 2009)

Sorry guys thought he meant idle temps!!
The temps in my house stay around 70f


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## douglatins (May 23, 2009)

Dude put the rad inside more awesome/ better


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## Asylum (May 23, 2009)

Wont fit inside!!
Plus that would just make temps hotter!!


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## phanbuey (May 23, 2009)

3 suggestions - 

try water wetter - it will drop temps by a bit - by reducing the surface tension of the water (i.e. making it absorb heat better)

Put your fans in pull mode, instead of push (mount the fans outside of the case to the rad.)  Pull mode works better with <75CFM fans.

3 - check the mounting of the waterblock, and check the flatness of your chip.  You may need to lap that sucker.

Last question - what are you using to load the chip?


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## Asylum (May 23, 2009)

Prime95


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## phanbuey (May 23, 2009)

Asylum said:


> Prime95



yeah your chip should be barely making it past 50C, at max.

Try to reverse the fans for a second so that they are blowing IN to the case through the rad..  If that makes a difference then you have an airflow problem, which is easy to fix.

I used to have those same exact components with the E8500 at 4.1Ghz 1.42V  It should be performing alot better - we can fix it.


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## Deleted member 24505 (May 23, 2009)

I'm using a 120.2 with my fans in pull mode,i have also put two fan frames twixt fan and radiator,seems to make a differance.


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## phanbuey (May 23, 2009)

tigger said:


> I'm using a 120.2 with my fans in pull mode,i have also put two fan frames twixt fan and radiator,seems to make a differance.



yeah the shrouds make a big difference, always a good idea if you got the space.


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## Deleted member 24505 (May 23, 2009)

You reckon it would make any differance if i put two more frames/fans on in push/pull mode?


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## Asylum (May 23, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> yeah your chip should be barely making it past 50C, at max.
> 
> Try to reverse the fans for a second so that they are blowing IN to the case through the rad..  If that makes a difference then you have an airflow problem, which is easy to fix.
> 
> I used to have those same exact components with the E8500 at 4.1Ghz 1.42V  It should be performing alot better - we can fix it.



Ill try that out and see what happens!!


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## phanbuey (May 23, 2009)

tigger said:


> You reckon it would make any differance if i put two more frames/fans on in push/pull mode?



It would.  Martin's Liquid lab shows just the one 25MM-30MM shroud can improve t-delta by 10-15% - I don't know how much a second shroud would improve it by - never tried it since it would make cleaning dust out of the rad a PITA.


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## Deleted member 24505 (May 23, 2009)

It would make cleaning a pita,as it is now,i just take the side off and hoover the rad.Push pull is apparently better though,i might try it.


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## Asylum (May 23, 2009)

I tried the push pull method with 2 more fans on the outside and it only made 1c difference!!
Starting to think this rad or block is crap.
One or the other!!
Started out at 43c this morning when i first turned it on!!
Didnt take it long to go to 47c at idle!!
Ive checked the block 3 different times and the contact seems fine!!
Any ideas?


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## erocker (May 23, 2009)

Is this with your processor at stock?


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## Asylum (May 23, 2009)

No its overclocked...E8600 @ 4.25ghz  1.38 volts  47c @ idle and 65c @ load!!
I got that with my air cooler!!


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## phanbuey (May 25, 2009)

is the block flat?


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## Assassin48 (May 25, 2009)

i would go through the list
1 make sure its on securely
2 make sure its flat like phanbuey said you may need to lap it


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## Deleted member 24505 (May 25, 2009)

Most intel ihs are not flat,you can either try lapping the cpu,or use the fat ring that came with the apogee gt to bow th block.I just lapped my E6750 as the base on the gt is pretty flat.


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## Asylum (May 25, 2009)

I changed flow direction and moved some fans around!!
Changed to pure water and got about 3c difference!!
The block looks to be flat but ill get a blade from work and check it and the CPU tomarrow!!
Looks like to me the rads not doing a good job!!


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## phanbuey (May 25, 2009)

You can tell if its the rad by touching the rad during load.  Rads that are overloaded will be hot to the touch... that MCR 220 is one of the better rads around, and I almost guarantee that it is not the rad.  

That same rad cooled my OC'd Q6600 at 1.52V to below 55C.

If you're BOOTING at 43C, then you have a contact issue.  You should be booting at mid-20C.

Buy water wetter and add it to the loop. - it cools even better than pure water.


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