# [TechSpot] China declares all cryptocurrency transactions illegal, Bitcoin price plummets



## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

China declares all cryptocurrency transactions illegal, Bitcoin price plummets
					

The People's Bank of China on its website wrote that all cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin and Tether, are not fiat currency and cannot be circulated on the market....




					www.techspot.com
				




Source ^

_Elsewhere, China's economic planning agency said it is urgent that the country root out crypto mining and the crackdown is essential in its efforts to meet carbon goals._

It's nice to see some countries still care about climate change.

It will only take a few more countries of the 1st world level of market power to declare the same thing for BTC and all crypto to be at less $5 a coin within two weeks.  Sadly, there is too much corruption in most 1st world governments, so this will never happen. @lexluthermiester

edit:









						Old coal plant is now mining bitcoin for a utility company
					

Bitcoin is breathing new life into another ailing power plant.




					arstechnica.com
				




Added this just because... yeah... what a pathetic existence... humans = capable of so much, yet so little.


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## Khonjel (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> China declares all cryptocurrency transactions illegal, Bitcoin price plummets
> 
> 
> The People's Bank of China on its website wrote that all cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin and Tether, are not fiat currency and cannot be circulated on the market....
> ...


Lol. Everybody in this forum who I've interacted with can attest that I'm one of the biggest China-hater in the forums. But even I will admit that it’s just fancy talk to keep the population in control rather than the magnanimous goal of fighting climate change. Otherwise I don’t give a rat's arse about chinese and miners and specifically chinese miners either way. So carry on being tough guy on your citizens, CCP.


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## mtcn77 (Sep 24, 2021)

It is ironic that china was the country with the most mining activity, though.


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## nguyen (Sep 24, 2021)

Sweet, waiting for cheap used Ampere GPU flooding the market any moment now.....


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## ThaiTaffy (Sep 24, 2021)

They only care about their climate as far as I can tell, I live on the Mekong Delta upstream in China they have started fitting hydro electric dams over the last decade. Downstream in other countries the fishing industry has been destroyed and they have massive droughts.


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## Ferrum Master (Sep 24, 2021)

ThaiTaffy said:


> Downstream in other countries the fishing industry has been destroyed and they have massive droughts.



I think that was not a coincidence mate... it was a design plan.


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## ThaiTaffy (Sep 24, 2021)

As I said they care about their own climate

Don't think Thailand is high on their friends list at the moment either due to its US relationship and the fact we told the world about Covid


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## Khonjel (Sep 24, 2021)

ThaiTaffy said:


> As I said they care about their own climate
> 
> Don't think Thailand is high on their friends list at the moment either due to its US relationship and the fact we told the world about Covid


Ehh... You guys are getting closer to China lol. Since U.S. publicly likes to show they don't like military junta or more specifically military junta they didn't approve off. But otherwise there's no friends in geopolitics so let's not expect even allied nations to be benevolent towards each other.


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## ThaiTaffy (Sep 24, 2021)

Though I can promise you China will offload their gpu's here, prices are insane. I'm seeing 3090s going anywhere between £6000-£8000


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## Ferrum Master (Sep 24, 2021)

ThaiTaffy said:


> I'm seeing 3090s going anywhere between £6000-£8000



They can choke on them, just ignore till they get EOL anyways.


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## ThaiTaffy (Sep 24, 2021)

Khonjel said:


> Ehh... You guys are getting closer to China lol. Since U.S. publicly likes to show they don't like military junta or more specifically military junta they didn't approve off. But otherwise there's no friends in geopolitics so let's not expect even allied nations to be benevolent towards each other.


It's whatever people perceive the big CIA blacksite that was in the news a few years ago which everyone claimed didn't exist is down the road from me you can't tell me the junta allowing them to run that didn't earn brownie points. Also Americans here get alot more privileges than any other nation.


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## Khonjel (Sep 24, 2021)

ThaiTaffy said:


> It's whatever people perceive the big CIA blacksite that was in the news a few years ago which everyone claimed didn't exist is down the road from me you can't tell me the junta allowing them to run that didn't earn brownie points. Also Americans here get alot more privileges than any other nation.


Fair enough. I won't claim to know more than someone who lives there.


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## ThaiTaffy (Sep 24, 2021)

Anyway back to topic, now it's just waiting to see if over the next few weeks the 2nd hand market is flooded with gpu's or the mining outfits just pack up and move somewhere else if they can with the pandemic going on.



Khonjel said:


> Fair enough. I won't claim to know more than someone who lives there.


I'm not that interested in the whole geo politics thing but one example as a British expat I need to jump through alot of hoops and pay alot to start a business here where as an American can just start one like any other Thai citizen.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 24, 2021)

I thought China were making they're own crypto currency though, or is that now not happening.

As for cryptos death, yeah but no, I doubt even China could end it.


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## ThaiTaffy (Sep 24, 2021)

TheoneandonlyMrK said:


> I thought China were making they're own crypto currency though, or is that now not happening.
> 
> As for cryptos death, yeah but no, I doubt even China could end it.


That's the big point this all boils down to them not being able to regulate or control something they want to make their own crypto to have control they can't control the current currencies so it's easier to ban them under the pretext of saving the planet.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 24, 2021)

ThaiTaffy said:


> That's the big point this all boils down to them not being able to regulate or control something they want to make their own crypto to have control they can't control the current currencies so it's easier to ban them under the pretext of saving the planet.


So as I thought then, Ty.

Also, surely there's a lot of hodlrs in China that are now about to break the law to get they're savings back in fiat currency.
And BTC dropped to 30K in the UK from 36.

That's a normal fluctuation here.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

I appreciate the Love boys!  @nguyen @Khonjel 

Here is to hoping our species figures out a way to be civil and honorable before the animal side fully takes over... this is a start.


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## Chomiq (Sep 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> It is ironic that china was the country with the most mining activity, though.


Nowadays in China it's called data research and storage:








						China Intensifies Hunt for Cryptocurrency Miners in Hiding
					

China’s campaign against the cryptocurrency industry is now targeting miners who tried to disguise themselves as data researchers and storage facilities to stay in business, according to people with knowledge of the situation.




					www.bloomberg.com
				





> China’s campaign against the cryptocurrency industry is now targeting miners who tried to disguise themselves as data researchers and storage facilities to stay in business, according to people with knowledge of the situation.





> Concern over the country’s power supplies for the upcoming winter season is one reason for the urgency, they said.



Ps.
Why do we need another thread if we have one for Crypto Market Trend discussion?


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## Vya Domus (Sep 24, 2021)

Seems like the China news are having a lesser and lesser effect on prices, this is arguably the first actual "crypto ban" amidst the frequent China related FUD in last few years. Prices dropped a lot less than I would have expected.


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## Liquid Cool (Sep 24, 2021)

When the words stop working...legislation is just around the corner.

From my perspective.  In China, the cryptocurrencies have served their purpose.  

Best,

Liquid Cool


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## Rithsom (Sep 24, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> Seems like the China news are having a lesser and lesser effect on prices, this is arguably the first actual "crypto ban" amidst the frequent China related FUD in last few years. Prices dropped a lot less than I would have expected.



It is still too early to tell. But yes, we've seen China try to destroy crypto before.

In order for crypto to really drop to nothing, we would need to see all of the developed countries with big economies ban it. Countries like the USA, Germany, Japan, etc.


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## neatfeatguy (Sep 24, 2021)

I guess folks like me, that have no interest in taking part in crypto (yet I can't say I'm against it or for it, either), to see how things continue to turn out. Interesting to see China on the frontline of this, but then again, they either have some underlying agenda or just hate what they can't control.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> China declares all cryptocurrency transactions illegal, Bitcoin price plummets
> 
> 
> The People's Bank of China on its website wrote that all cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin and Tether, are not fiat currency and cannot be circulated on the market....
> ...


I'm at a loss. I thought this would have happened sooner if it was going to happen at all. However, given the reasons they've stated for making this all-out ban, the US and EU might actually join them.


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## ThrashZone (Sep 24, 2021)

Hi,
Yep taxing it to death like other things guess wouldn't be fast enough lol


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## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> I'm at a loss. I thought this would have happened sooner if it was going to happen at all. However, given the reasons they've stated for making this all-out ban, the US and EU might actually join them.



yep the EU and USA are going to look like fools at the next Paris Climate gathering progress update, when China gets up the podium and calls them out on it. lol


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## Melvis (Sep 24, 2021)

Well done China, if only other countries had the balls to follow suit!

Show those greedy bastards!


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 24, 2021)

BTW, Techspot is citing Reuters;








						China's top regulators ban crypto trading and mining, sending bitcoin tumbling
					

China's most powerful regulators on Friday intensified a crackdown on cryptocurrencies with a blanket ban on all crypto transactions and mining, hitting bitcoin and other major coins and pressuring crypto and blockchain-related stocks.




					www.reuters.com
				



And they do their homework. This is for real folks.
(I state this for the people who are going to claim this is old news being rehashed. This is a preemptive STHU!)


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## R0H1T (Sep 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> It is ironic that china was the country with the most mining activity, though.


Not ironic at all, they'll unban them when the plebs start making more profits (using mining?) for the kleptocrats!



Melvis said:


> Well done China, if only other countries had the balls to follow suit!
> 
> Show those greedy bastards!


Well done? You realize they've done this probably about a dozen times already?








						China Reiterates Crypto Bans From 2013 and 2017
					

Regulators cite the dangers of speculative trading.




					www.coindesk.com
				




Then undone it, I bet when mining or some other stuff in cryptoland makes more sense they'll unban it.


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## freeagent (Sep 24, 2021)

A small part of me was hoping to double my money on my GPU purchase.. dammit. This might throw a wrench into things a bit. I really wanted that 3080Ti


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## Chomiq (Sep 24, 2021)

neatfeatguy said:


> I guess folks like me, that have no interest in taking part in crypto (yet I can't say I'm against it or for it, either), to see how things continue to turn out. Interesting to see China on the frontline of this, but then again, they either have some underlying agenda or just hate what they can't control.


Oh they do have an agenda, it's called:





						China’s e-currency is the world’s first sovereign digital currency
					

China is creating a digital yuan in an attempt to make their currency stronger and more global.




					business.cornell.edu


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## xkm1948 (Sep 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> BTW, Techspot is citing Rueters;
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would consider a PRC based news source as primary source. SCMP IMO has better credibility when it comes to East Asia related news.


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## GLD (Sep 24, 2021)

I want a new GPU at MSRP, as many of other hard working people do. I hope the rest of the world follow's China and flushes crypto.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> I would consider a PRC based news source as primary source. SCMP IMO has better credibility when it comes to East Asia related news.



Reuters is about as good as it gets imo.

@lexluthermiester ty for the info


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## defaultluser (Sep 24, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Sweet, waiting for cheap used Ampere GPU flooding the market any moment now.....




Even worse for this sales crackdown in the country is the fact that Ether is moving to Proof of Stake in December

The top two GPU compute  demands will suddenly be taking  a Permanent Holiday


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## dhklopp (Sep 24, 2021)

Again. Yawn!


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## xkm1948 (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Reuters is about as good as it gets imo.
> 
> @lexluthermiester ty for the info




I trust translation tool plus whatever the native sources. I don't like 2nd hand info. Lots of things are lost or added in between primary source and 2ndary news agencies. Not particular to Reutuers but to journalism as a whole when it involves news from a vastly different language system


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## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> I trust translation tool plus whatever the native sources. I don't like 2nd hand info. Lots of things are lost or added in between primary source and 2ndary news agencies. Not particular to Reutuers but to journalism as a whole when it involves news from a vastly different language system



Your argumentation is fair and I agree with it on the surface. Reuters is about as trusting and objective as it gets these days though.


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## xkm1948 (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Your argumentation is fair and I agree with it on the surface. Reuters is about as trusting and objective as it gets these days though.




Browsing some top PRC news site,, like sina and baidu, it does appear to be the case with translation






						央行：虚拟货币不具有与法定货币等同的法律地位
					

央行：虚拟货币不具有与法定货币等同的法律地位




					news-sina-com-cn.translate.goog
				





Notice on Further Preventing and Disposing of the Risk of Hype in Virtual Currency Trading

So previously it was clamping down on mining. This time is more focused on exchange and exchanging platforms


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## the54thvoid (Sep 24, 2021)

Like a few have said, this has nothing to do with carbon emissions. China has a very complex political philosophy but ultimately, Xi, at the top, is the only person that matters. And he has presided over a failed attempt to make capitalism work for communism. This was reported recently by a well-versed journalist, his point being that Xi thought moderating the political system to allow capitalist growth would have that fabled and bullshit 'trickle-down' effect. It didn't - lo and behold, Chinese wealth is the same as Western wealth, only a few have the highest levels and this does not fit well with the model of communism Xi is after (though to be fair, under Xi, . Crypto-mining has allowed a few major players in China to hold vast wealth, and in mining, there is no trickle down. No chain of stores from which to employ more people to sell more goods to then put back into the system. No, Crypto wealth is the antitheses of 'shared' wealth. Commodity based capitalism (of physical purchases) is where 'trickle-down' occurs. But as technology advances, it pushes the balance to fewer and fewer players with more and more wealth. 

This is why China is cracking down on crypto. They're also targetting many other private wealth owners. People who have exorbitant wealth that don't benefit the rest. Just like the west. The irony.

Xi won't take China back to Communist era economics - he knows they'll fail, but he is already making his move on the wealthy elite. And of course, yes, he is one of them. 

Related article from SCMP:









						Can Xi’s fight against inequality and corruption end China’s ‘Gilded Age’?
					

America’s Gilded Age provides a historical lens for assessing Xi’s actions and suggests China’s current problems do not spell doom. Xi is trying to start China’s Progressive Era by command and control, though no government has yet overcome the side effects of capitalism by decree.




					www.scmp.com


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## thesmokingman (Sep 24, 2021)

Xi is bringing China back to 1999.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Sep 24, 2021)

People who have exorbitant wealth that don't benefit the rest. Isn't this the western model? Football players getting payed a million a match, F1 drivers a million+ a race. Places like Beverley hills in America, or Chelsea in London, Greed is society's driving force.

Glad China have done this, looking forward to buying a cheap fucked, hammered mining card now yaaay


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## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

the54thvoid said:


> Like a few have said, this has nothing to do with carbon emissions. China has a very complex political philosophy but ultimately, Xi, at the top, is the only person that matters. And he has presided over a failed attempt to make capitalism work for communism. This was reported recently by a well-versed journalist, his point being that Xi thought moderating the political system to allow capitalist growth would have that fabled and bullshit 'trickle-down' effect. It didn't - lo and behold, Chinese wealth is the same as Western wealth, only a few have the highest levels and this does not fit well with the model of communism Xi is after (though to be fair, under Xi, . Crypto-mining has allowed a few major players in China to hold vast wealth, and in mining, there is no trickle down. No chain of stores from which to employ more people to sell more goods to then put back into the system. No, Crypto wealth is the antitheses of 'shared' wealth. Commodity based capitalism (of physical purchases) is where 'trickle-down' occurs. But as technology advances, it pushes the balance to fewer and fewer players with more and more wealth.
> 
> This is why China is cracking down on crypto. They're also targetting many other private wealth owners. People who have exorbitant wealth that don't benefit the rest. Just like the west. The irony.
> 
> ...



Of course it is the real reason, but it doesn't matter, the Common Man and the Herds read the headlines only, not the article itself. 

China will now have grounds to call out other first world nations for not also banning it in the name of climate change, it is a win win for China, and for climate change.  So meh



Gruffalo.Soldier said:


> People who have exorbitant wealth that don't benefit the rest. Isn't this the western model? Football players getting payed a million a match, F1 drivers a million+ a race. Greed is society's driving force.
> 
> Glad China have done this, looking forward to buying a cheap fucked, hammered mining card now yaaay



a million a match? thats poor people money.  quarterbacks get like 10 million a match these days. lol


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## Deleted member 24505 (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> a million a match? thats poor people money. quarterbacks get like 10 million a match these days. lol



It was an example, but yeah, no one deserves that much pay, not an astronaut or brain surgeon. Wages should scale, the more they benefit society the more pay, but that's probably in some far future world where we are nought but dust


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## xtreemchaos (Sep 24, 2021)

ive nothing against mining apart from the GPU shortage and power use . but Well Done China !. i hope more states follow.


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## R0H1T (Sep 24, 2021)

Gruffalo.Soldier said:


> Isn't this the western model?


That's the human (capitalistic) model, it isn't limited just to the West! Heck China is on track to make "their model" a case study in how *grift works* & *honesty never pays* for scholars to study decades or even centuries down the road.


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## windwhirl (Sep 24, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yep taxing it to death like other things guess wouldn't be fast enough lol


Tax doesn't work that way in countries like the USA, where one might argue it's confiscatory and get the courts to back you up and nullify a law


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## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

R0H1T said:


> That's the human (capitalistic) model, it isn't limited just to the West! Heck China is on track to make "their model" a case study in how *grift works* & *honesty never pays* for scholars to study decades or even centuries down the road.



I'm pretty sure America has the worse model for scholars, get in 20 years of debt because you like to read books, with compounding interest. But in America you can go max out your credit cards in sex toys, then file bankruptcy, and start your life over in 7 years once your credit score starts to get back to normal in year 7.  But god forbid you read books in America!   (they won't let you file bankruptcy if your humanities degree ended up not working out, even though they spent all of middle and high school brainwashing you to major in it)


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## R0H1T (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I'm pretty sure America has the worse model for scholars,


Nah, pretty sure *social credit score* (system) is worse 

And a near 24*7 surveillance system which could put NSA to shame!

*lynx29 *looks like you post got deleted (or moderated?) any way here's my response ~ That's all fun & games, but wait till you like that* Winnie the Pooh* video


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 24, 2021)

xkm1948 said:


> I would consider a PRC based news source as primary source. SCMP IMO has better credibility when it comes to East Asia related news.


While I will not disagree, for the english speaking world Reuters is an excellent source of reliable information. They also have some of the best translators in the world working for them. It's one of the few news sources I actually have faith in.


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## Metroid (Sep 24, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Sweet, waiting for cheap used Ampere GPU flooding the market any moment now.....


 The interesting thing is that you dont even need to buy a second hand gpu, reason the new gpus are expensive is because second hand market is also expensive, meaning, as soon as the second hand crashes hard, retail will also crash hard, so you will buy a new gpu below msrp.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

Metroid said:


> The interesting thing is that you dont even need to buy a second hand gpu, reason the new gpus are expensive is because second hand market is also expensive, meaning, as soon as the second hand crashes hard, retail will also crash hard, so you will buy a new gpu below msrp.




not to mention AMD will go max to probably $699 or $749 (msrp reference card) for their next gen 7800 XT gpu.  and the markets will be stable when that comes out.


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## Metroid (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> not to mention AMD will go max to probably $699 or $749 for their next gen 7800 XT gpu.  and the markets will be stable when that comes out.



The way things are I will likely skip these 8nm gpus and jump on the 5nm gpus. I do have 2 3080, one used for deep learning and the other for gaming. Those new 5nm gpus willl be very cheap compared to how things are right now, around 600 usd for a rtx 4080 I believe and as crypto will have crashed to hehell, all rtx 4080 will be free lhr hehe


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## R-T-B (Sep 24, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> It is ironic that china was the country with the most mining activity, though.


It isn't anymore.  

They are just reiterating the same statements they always do.  It seems they like to do this regularly, despite nothing really changing, to crash the price.



nguyen said:


> Sweet, waiting for cheap used Ampere GPU flooding the market any moment now.....


This is all lip service.  No real long term change expected.  The miners all fled China earlier this year.



Chomiq said:


> Why do we need another thread if we have one for Crypto Market Trend discussion?


For more drama.



lexluthermiester said:


> I state this for the people who are going to claim this is old news being rehashed. This is a preemptive STHU!


It IS old news being rehashed...  by China.  That said, the impacts are real.

This is even in your articles if you read them.



xkm1948 said:


> This time is more focused on exchange and exchanging platforms


That's always been what it was...  lol.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> It isn't anymore.
> 
> They are just reiterating the same statements they always do.  It seems they like to do this regularly, despite nothing really changing, to crash the price.
> 
> ...



The Democrats of USA, Canada, and Europe will never be able to live this one down either.   China will always have a an excuse from now on when it comes to climate change talks at the table.   Either way it is a win win for China, and the left wing has truly shown it's colors by not following China's lead on this one.  Corruption will destroy the West (already is as we can see here), and China is laughing all along the way and still playing the long term game. I feel bad for the younger generations, its going to be a China superpower world in less than 20 years. Corruption = ineptness + no honor which in turn = eventual collapse.


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## R-T-B (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Either way it is a win win for China


By banning trading but still allowing mining?

That's the ban that's being rehashed.  Granted it has the same impact (why mine if you cannot sell?), but the way it's done is for control, not the environment.  Their priorities are clear and have been since the initial statement from the central bank in 2013.

Sorry, but we have a thread for this we don't need a second.  See you there if you want to discuss without added drama.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Sep 24, 2021)

This don't matter, the worlds second biggest polluter just says screw the rest of you and keeps driving 8 litre cars.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 24, 2021)

Metroid said:


> The interesting thing is that you dont even need to buy a second hand gpu, reason the new gpus are expensive is because second hand market is also expensive, meaning, as soon as the second hand crashes hard, retail will also crash hard, so you will buy a new gpu below msrp.


We can hope...



R-T-B said:


> It IS old news being rehashed... by China. That said, the impacts are real.
> 
> This is even in your articles if you read them.


I did. Maybe you missed something?


R-T-B said:


> By banning trading but still allowing mining?


No, mining is banned also.


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## R-T-B (Sep 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Maybe you missed something?


I'm very doubtful.



lexluthermiester said:


> No, mining is banned also.


I'm going to need a citation there.  Even your reuters article only says this:



> China’s central People’s Bank of China (PBOC) said it was illegal to facilitate cryptocurrency trading and that it planned to severely punish anyone doing so, including those working for overseas platforms from within China.



Which is in line with the translated pdf from the www.boc.cn website I am referencing. (Homepage for China's central bank).

The only possibly new thing here is two departments saying they will work together to enforce existing law.


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 24, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'm going to need a citation there.


How about the opening paragraph?


> China's most powerful regulators on Friday intensified a crackdown on cryptocurrencies with a blanket ban on all crypto transactions and mining








R-T-B said:


> I'm very doubtful.


I'm very certain you missed a few things as demonstrated above.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

Ten bucks says Elon trolls the **** out of everyone within 24 hours and tweets baby doge or some other stupid ****.


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## R-T-B (Sep 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> How about the opening paragraph?


I'd advise going to the horses mouth.

For those not interested in dealing with weird central bank website, and wanting the original text of the 2013 ruling to translate themselves, here it is:



> 中国人民银行等五部委发布《关于防范比特币风险的通知》
> 
> 字号 大 中 小     文章来源：沟通交流     2013-12-05 15:39:14
> 打印本页　 关闭窗口
> ...



If anyone can find a more up to date version stating something actually new, post it.

In english courtesy google translate:



> Five ministries and commissions including the People's Bank of China issued the "Notice on Preventing Bitcoin Risks"
> 
> Font Size Big Middle Small Article Source: Communication 2013-12-05 15:39:14
> Print this page 　 Close window
> ...


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 24, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> I'd advise going to the horses mouth.


No thank you, Reuters is MORE than good & trustworthy enough. If you can't accept that, YOU have the problem.


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## R-T-B (Sep 24, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> No thank you, Reuters is MORE than good & trustworthy enough. If you can't accept that, YOU have the problem.


Than the banks own statements?  Ok then.  That's comical.
EDIT:  To avoid confusion, please don't quote me here.  Continue in the appropriate existing thread for stuff like this.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

VATICAN FINANCE price today, VAT to USD live, marketcap and chart | CoinMarketCap
					

Get the latest VATICAN FINANCE price, VAT market cap, trading pairs, charts and data today from the world’s number one cryptocurrency price-tracking website




					coinmarketcap.com
				




Apparently even the Pope and Catholic Church are accepting Etheruem? If I am reading that right, which I probably am not. Pathetic. Dante's Inferno may have a new circle added to it, ROFL


R-T-B said:


> I'd advise going to the horses mouth.
> 
> For those not interested in dealing with weird central bank website, and wanting the original text of the 2013 ruling to translate themselves, here it is:
> 
> ...



why are you linking a document from 2013 to refute a headline made in 2021? the end of the document literally has it dated 2013...


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## R-T-B (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> why are you linking a document from 2013 to refute a headline made in 2021? the end of the document literally has it dated 2013...


Because that's how old the ruling they keep restating to crash the market is.  #notmyfaultpeoplearestupid

See the other thread for a forbes article substantiating this.  And then, if anyone finds something newer, please do post it.  This is literally ancient news that comes up every 4 years like a bad movie.  Do a google news search if you don't believe me.

This one today,

2017,

2013

Probably more.  tl;dr you can only ban something once.  They never "reallowed it."  They just enjoy crashing the market.


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Because that's how old the ruling they keep restating is.  #notmyfaultpeoplearestupid
> 
> See the other thread for a forbes article substantiating this.



well the Pope is on your side.  rock on bro.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> well the Pope is on your side.  rock on bro.


I'm just on the truths side.  I don't care really.


----------



## R0H1T (Sep 24, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> The miners all fled China earlier this year.


Did they, I mean literally?


lynx29 said:


> well the Pope is on your side. rock on bro.


*If *they were even remotely serious the likes of Binance would probably go bankrupt overnight!
And that's a big fucking if ~ & of course they're not serious, forget all the histrionics around this


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 24, 2021)

R0H1T said:


> Did they, I mean literally?


Pretty much, except criminals.  You can't sell, why would you stay?



lynx29 said:


> well the Pope is on your side.  rock on bro.


Did some reading.  He isn't.



> The Vatican City never would take this initiative by itself, but this project has been born in order to make things easier to the Vatican and the catholic Church, with a well defined strategy and roadmap, including building a payment system and building a charity fund.



It's a dumb altcoin.


----------



## windwhirl (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Apparently even the Pope and Catholic Church are accepting Etheruem? If I am reading that right, which I probably am not. Pathetic. Dante's Inferno may have a new circle added to it, ROFL


Seems like a religion-equivalent of fan-made project lol

Also, "the money of God"



Are you freaking serious? I thought gods need not to issue money 

For real, though, it's like a fanbase of the Catholic Church decided to make a fan-project to help the Vatican of all things




So, no, neither the Vatican State nor any of its officials are involved. At least not in a official manner. And considering what this is about, I don't think they would involve themselves with it, much less with the Pope's way of thinking regarding money and related affairs.


----------



## R0H1T (Sep 24, 2021)

windwhirl said:


> Are you freaking serious? I thought gods need not to issue money


Well Gods do need miracles to keep the plebs in check ~ we'll just call it hush hash money!


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

windwhirl said:


> Seems like a religion-equivalent of fan-made project lol
> 
> Also, "the money of God"
> View attachment 218113
> ...



Nice find mate, it was confusing to me. lol  that's good at least.


----------



## thesmokingman (Sep 24, 2021)

lol... writing is on the wall.

uh-uh, no it not!


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

thesmokingman said:


> lol... writing is on the wall.
> 
> uh-uh, no it not!



No one ever said it was, even in my original post I said the only way crypto will fall is if other first nations follow China's lead and ban the mining and all transactions from all crypto in name of carbon emissions. Apparently you didn't read post 1 though.  /shrug

Spoiler:  I also said that won't ever happen due to corruption in the western nations.


----------



## thesmokingman (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> No one ever said it was, even in my original post I said the only way crypto will fall is if other first nations follow China's lead and ban the mining and all transactions from all crypto in name of carbon emissions. Apparently you didn't read post 1 though.  /shrug
> 
> Spoiler:  I also said that won't ever happen due to corruption in the western nations.


Haha, I wasn't referring to you specifically. That was a cliff of the thread.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> No one ever said it was, even in my original post I said the only way crypto will fall is if other first nations follow China's lead and ban the mining and all transactions from all crypto in name of carbon emissions. Apparently you didn't read post 1 though.  /shrug
> 
> Spoiler:  I also said that won't ever happen due to corruption in the western nations.


Anyone who claims he knows exactly what's going to happen with crypto is lying.


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 24, 2021)

Old coal plant is now mining bitcoin for a utility company
					

Bitcoin is breathing new life into another ailing power plant.




					arstechnica.com
				




What a lovely world we live in boys.  

keyword here is:  *another* power plant... keep up boys.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Old coal plant is now mining bitcoin for a utility company
> 
> 
> Bitcoin is breathing new life into another ailing power plant.
> ...


Bitcoin is also sponsoring the USAs largest solar farm.

It's a mixed bag, like most indistries.  This one just happens to be growing.

BTW, this is that same greenidge coal plant from earlier headlines.  Not another one.  I sense a trend of repeat headlines from the media.

Here is it's story in a nutshell.  Tl:dr, bitcoin or not, the plant was staying open, they just are operating it in a more economically feasible full load:



> Which is why an investor-owned utility has dropped a containerized data center outside a coal-fired power plant 10 miles north of St. Louis. Ameren, the utility, was struggling to keep the 1,099 MW power plant running profitably when wholesale electricity prices dropped. But it wasn’t well suited to running only when demand was high, so-called peaker duty. Instead, they’re experimenting with running it full-time and using the excess electricity to mine bitcoin.



Either way, no, not "another" plant.  Same plant.  I believe the other project they are refering to is actually nuclear.  Maybe the Montana Solar one.  Dunno.

Bottom line.



> Across the entire grid, cryptocurrency mining operations could “add a lot of value, particularly how fast they can move up and down, Joshua Rhodes, a research associate at the University of Texas at Austin, told E&E News. “It can have a positive emissions impact if it’s run the right way,” he said. “It can also increase emissions if it’s not.”



Your article.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Sep 24, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Old coal plant is now mining bitcoin for a utility company
> 
> 
> Bitcoin is breathing new life into another ailing power plant.
> ...



Would be America, land of the greedy


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 25, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Would be America, land of the greedy


I mean, I'm not really disputing that.  If we weren't land of the greedy, it would be easy to build a larger solar farm than a friggin bitcoin project...  but no.  That might cost taxes.


----------



## LordFarquaad (Sep 25, 2021)

China is the world's biggest polluter by a large margin, they open more coal fired power stations than the West closes in a year, does anyone really think this has ANYTHING to do with climate change? Ithink China cares as much about climate change as it does about the US growing stronger on the world stage? this is China setting out it's position on competing crypto-currencies since they have introduced their own CCP-backed digital currency, that is tied into their social credit system, why in the world would they want to have to compete with de-centralised, non government backed crypto when they can do what they have always done to their own people and control everything? the naivety in some comments like China care about the rest of the world is simply laughable


----------



## trog100 (Sep 25, 2021)

this is all pure hypocrisy.. some years back the west used to make its own stuff and create its own pollution.. then we exported our manufacturing industries and our pollution to china.. now we accuse them of not being green enough..  he he..

here in the UK they are talking about a winter of discontent.. power price increases and possible black outs.. in truth the push for green is turning into a f-cking disaster.. so was exporting our manufacturing industries to china..

china might well be the worlds biggest polluter but it also makes all the worlds stuff.. we cant have it both ways.. if we want the stuff we have to put up with what goes with it.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 25, 2021)

trog100 said:


> this is all pure hypocrisy.. some years back the west used to make its own stuff and create its own pollution.. then we exported our manufacturing industries and our pollution to china.. now we accuse them of not being green enough..  he he..
> 
> here in the UK they are talking about a winter of discontent.. power price increases and possible black outs.. in truth the push for green is turning into a f-cking disaster.. so was exporting our manufacturing industries to china..
> 
> trog



doesn't matter. with the incoming mass famines and climate change displacing billions of people, probably within 5-10 years, currency in any form won't matter anymore very soon   def within our lifetimes.  enjoy it while you can.  human hubris knows no bounds.


----------



## trog100 (Sep 25, 2021)

think about Lemmings lynx.. they breed too successfully every so often they run out of food and have to migrate to pastures new.. 

on the way they die in the millions.. what comes first i dont know.. enough of them dying or finding pastures new..  maybe it dosnt matter.. 

its all part of a natural cycle lynx.. stop worrying about things you have no control over.. live your life as best you can and be happy.. 

my own thinking goes this way.. we have our own natural cycle and i dont think this is the first time around for us and i dont think it will be the last.. 

trog


----------



## claes (Sep 25, 2021)

Thinking about the world in terms of individualism in this way inevitably leads to nihilism. I’m not saying it’s possible, given the conditions we live in, but the only solution to global catastrophe is organizing the plebes together, across national boundaries, against a multinational class that will survive this crisis with or without us. /boredom


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 25, 2021)

claes said:


> Thinking about the world in terms of individualism in this way inevitably leads to nihilism. I’m not saying it’s possible, given the conditions we live in, but the only solution to global catastrophe is organizing the plebes together, across national boundaries, against a multinational class that will survive this crisis with or without us. /boredom



I don't think of it is as nihilism at all, in fact I find it all very beautiful, the cycles of life and species, and the infinite cosmos.  Quite a lovely self-aware state, yet ironically, we still behave as animals. I find it more curious than nihilistic. Earth will be dust someday, another solar system will harbor life, maybe Elon Musk in his final moments will realize it is his duty to load up every rocket with various lifeforms and launch them to whatever planets James Webb Space Telescope finds are the golden zone... his Mars dream is a foolish one, but perhaps giving diverse life another chance on another planet is indeed the role of any species that is lucky enough to become self-aware... who knows such things.


----------



## yotano211 (Sep 25, 2021)

Tigger said:


> People who have exorbitant wealth that don't benefit the rest. Isn't this the western model? Football players getting payed a million a match, F1 drivers a million+ a race. Places like Beverley hills in America, or Chelsea in London, Greed is society's driving force.
> 
> Glad China have done this, looking forward to buying a cheap fucked, hammered mining card now yaaay


You should see the sponsors of the America's cup sailing races. Its considered the most expensive races in the world.


----------



## R0H1T (Sep 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> we still behave as animals.


Well we are, unless you've grown roots in recent years 

Despite civilization & all the advances humanity has conjured over the last few millennia, on law rules supreme ~ *survival of the fittest*!

So yeah call it greed or whatever we're all doomed anyway, just enjoy whatever time you have left on this earth & don't try to deliberately step on others to reach new heights ~ that's about the only thing I'd like to preach.


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 25, 2021)

R0H1T said:


> Well we are, unless you've grown roots in recent years
> 
> Despite civilization & all the advances humanity has conjured over the last few millennia, on law rules supreme ~ *survival of the fittest*!
> 
> So yeah call it greed or whatever we're all doomed anyway, just enjoy whatever time you have left on this earth & don't try to deliberately step on others to reach new heights ~ that's about the only thing I'd like to preach.



Anything you do is an indirect way of stepping on others though. Even something as simple as buying a smartphone to make business calls is stepping on others to get ahead, for the smartphone contains Coltan mineral, which requires slave labor, sometimes even child labor, as most of it is mined in the Congo about 80% of the worlds supply... so just depends on how you interpret step on.


----------



## yotano211 (Sep 25, 2021)

Tigger said:


> This don't matter, the worlds second biggest polluter just says screw the rest of you and keeps driving 8 litre cars.


my truck is 14.8 liters engine


----------



## R0H1T (Sep 25, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Anything you do is an indirect way of stepping on others though


Yes & that's why I said deliberately stepping over others, I'm sure I do a lot of things that directly or indirectly affect many others mostly unknowingly though. On the other hand something like  cryptocurrencies ~ they don't make sense to me (right now) & I know they're not exactly green & as yet I've not invested a penny in them. Part of the reason is that I don't like the volatility, then regulation & probably last on the list is energy consumption ~ now if it could be regulated well & be not a major drag on the electricity grid I'd probably be fine with them.



lynx29 said:


> as most of it is mined in the Congo about 80% of the worlds supply... so just depends on how you interpret step on.


Yes I remember that & I also remember the roadside tea vendors in my area ~ who employ child laborers, sometimes their own sons & daughters to make ends meet every day!* It's not all cut & dry as we're made to believe*, but it's also true that the current capitalistic/nihilistic system is untenable for the vast majority of us. Cryptocurrencies are in some sense the same manifestation of greed & the same BS *accumulation of wealth at the top that I'm totally against*.


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 25, 2021)

R0H1T said:


> Yes & that's why I said deliberately stepping over others, I'm sure I do a lot of things that directly or indirectly affect many others mostly unknowingly though. On the other hand something like  cryptocurrencies ~ they don't make sense to me (right now) & I know they're not exactly green & as yet I've not invested a penny in them. Part of the reason is that I don't like the volatility, then regulation & probably last on the list is energy consumption ~ now if it could be regulated well & be not a major drag on the electricity grid I'd probably be fine with them.
> 
> 
> Yes I remember that & I also remember the roadside tea vendors in my area ~ who employ child laborers, sometimes their own sons & daughters to make ends meet every day!* It's not all cut & dry as we're made to believe*, but it's also true that the current capitalistic/nihilistic system is untenable for the vast majority of us. Cryptocurrencies are in some sense the same manifestation of greed & the same BS *accumulation of wealth at the top that I'm totally against*.



Not sure I would equate roadside tea vendors to working in coltan mines under men with AK 47's, but yeah, other than that you make sense to me. lol



Khonjel said:


> Lol. Everybody in this forum who I've interacted with can attest that I'm one of the biggest China-hater in the forums. But even I will admit that it’s just fancy talk to keep the population in control rather than the magnanimous goal of fighting climate change. Otherwise I don’t give a rat's arse about chinese and miners and specifically chinese miners either way. So carry on being tough guy on your citizens, CCP.



I actually disagree with you here, even rich people living in China have to deal with wearing a mask (even before covid) because of horrible pollution in the air, based on a simple line of logic, one can come to the conclusion that eventually living in those kinds of conditions one would eventually get ******* tired of it, and try to regulate energy consumption better. I think China does genuinely care about climate change, because they have always played the long term game from a strategic stand point, they know it won't be much longer and America will crumble under its 30+ trillion debt. They will be the sole superpower, it's only a matter of time really. While American students keep debating pronouns and gender identity, their students are becoming engineers/scientists in mass. While American stock brokers only focus on short term greed, China plays feint cards and is calculating the long term. The list goes on and on. 

I do agree though, I wouldn't want to live in China personally. It doesn't change the fact they will be the sole superpower someday, especially when the debt we owe them comes up short and we can't pay it. I believe right now we are only paying China are interest rates we owe them, we are not even paying down the principle balance... I read somewhere that in 4 years we will owe China a big lump sum payment on one of those loans, and who knows where we will get the money for that... considering social security is about to collapse, and Congress keeps spending money like there is no tomorrow.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 26, 2021)

R0H1T said:


> just enjoy whatever time you have left on this earth & don't try to deliberately step on others to reach new heights


That is very reasonable and civilized advice.


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 26, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> That is very reasonable and civilized advice.



It is. I think the sadness though for me is quite simple really, as I have said many times over the years, "we are capable of so much, yet so little".  To be self-aware, and to squander it, in the infinite cosmos, the rarest of chances...


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Sep 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> It is. I think the sadness though for me is quite simple really, as I have said many times over the years, "we are capable of so much, yet so little".  To be self-aware, and to squander it, in the infinite cosmos, the rarest of chances...



Shame the top 10% of humans are the ones that don't give a fuck, and do the most damage.


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 26, 2021)

Tigger said:


> Shame the top 10% of humans are the ones that don't give a fuck, and do the most damage.



Perhaps the species that comes after us, when they study us, they will discover that inflated ego's led to an imbalanced power. When the ego lessens, greater awareness occurs. Hmm. An interesting math problem to be had someday!

Now that being said... it is important to make sure people know that being smart = does not equate to being rich. For example, Bezo's found a loophole very early on that allowed him to sell to other states tax free, as long as the item did not ship from that same state. That loophole has since been fixed, but I can't help but think that loophole played a huge huge part in Amazon taking over physical stores due to the initial undercutting of prices by such a large amount across the board, but who knows such things. 

Now it is time!!! For me to play more Magic the Gathering, farewell threads of the infinite void!


----------



## Shrek (Sep 26, 2021)

China declares all cryptocurrency transactions illegal, Bitcoin price plummets | TechSpot

I would not call that plummets


----------



## ThaiTaffy (Sep 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I don't think of it is as nihilism at all, in fact I find it all very beautiful, the cycles of life and species, and the infinite cosmos.  Quite a lovely self-aware state, yet ironically, we still behave as animals. I find it more curious than nihilistic. Earth will be dust someday, another solar system will harbor life, maybe Elon Musk in his final moments will realize it is his duty to load up every rocket with various lifeforms and launch them to whatever planets James Webb Space Telescope finds are the golden zone... his Mars dream is a foolish one, but perhaps giving diverse life another chance on another planet is indeed the role of any species that is lucky enough to become self-aware... who knows such things.


Problem with this is someone will send a breeding pair of goats, who will eat everything slowly evolve into homosapiens and screw that planet up because everyone knows goats are arseholes.


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> China declares all cryptocurrency transactions illegal, Bitcoin price plummets | TechSpot
> 
> I would not call that plummets



the article was written before markets had opened for the day. also journalism is journalism.  /shrug you should know that by now.


----------



## pavle (Sep 26, 2021)

Even a broken clock shows the right time twice a day, in this case that's China. I'm quite pleased with their ending of cryptocrap. 

A Waylon Jennings song "Wrong" is appropriate for this theme - "when the future looks too bright, can't be anything but right, wrong!"


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 26, 2021)

Andy Shiekh said:


> China declares all cryptocurrency transactions illegal, Bitcoin price plummets | TechSpot
> 
> I would not call that plummets


It did, just rebounded slightly and has now taken another dip..








						Coinranking | Cryptocurrency Price List - Top 50 Coins Today
					

View the list with all cryptocurrency prices of today. View live values of Bitcoin, Ethereum and thousands more.




					coinranking.com
				



Select the 7day or 30day chart and you will see it. Almost every single coin has tanked since the China full ban announcement..


----------



## trog100 (Sep 26, 2021)

crypto negative news generates lots of comment on this forum.. crypto positive news generates next to none.. 

i have my own thoughts on the why of this but its definitley a fact..

the current bitcoin price is at 43K it was at 44K before this news was announced.. all in all the world seems to think this is a none event.. i am inclined to agree.. 

trog


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 26, 2021)

Bitcoin mining company buys Pennsylvania power plant to meet electricity needs
					

Mining the top cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum requires vast amounts of power. A single Bitcoin transaction, including the resources needed to mine the coin and...




					www.techspot.com
				




_A holding company in Pennsylvania recently purchased the financially challenged Scrubgrass power plant. The plant currently produces enough power for 1,800 Bitcoin miners, with output increases planned to support more than 20,000 miners by 2022._

The failure of the Democrats to take action while they are in power speaks volumes. China truly is the new superpower, even if part of their rhetoric isn't about climate change, part of it is... no reason first world nations of the world shouldn't follow the lead on China on this one.   1800 miners to 20,000.... truly truly sad... this the 5th power plant this year... truly pathetic species we are, I never thought I'd see the day I'd agree China is leading the way on something so vastly important.

the silence from the Democrats is loudest thing I ever heard in my life.


Also, to those of you who say China does not care about climate change, due to the rhetoric you hear over the news, etc. Keep in mind China has a very very ancient history. They still do care about environment in ways we probably don't even understand, see below about Chinese Aesthetics:


The ancient Chinese thought system and cultural practice of Feng Shui (風水): a
way to negotiate how the natural environment and human constructions can
cohabit without destructing each other.

China often builds this way, its just we don't see that part of China in the news, due to the narrative our media tries to play, like they do with all topics sadly. There are many examples of Feng Shui in modern China.

Also the concept: jiaoganhexie (交感和谐) – a state of total harmony and mutual dependence

We might call this concept symbiosis in English, but I think the Chinese equivalent is like an even greater idea of symbiosis, but I may be wrong on my understanding of it.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Bitcoin mining company buys Pennsylvania power plant to meet electricity needs
> 
> 
> Mining the top cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum requires vast amounts of power. A single Bitcoin transaction, including the resources needed to mine the coin and...
> ...


This is when we know we have a serious problem.


----------



## ThaiTaffy (Sep 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Bitcoin mining company buys Pennsylvania power plant to meet electricity needs
> 
> 
> Mining the top cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum requires vast amounts of power. A single Bitcoin transaction, including the resources needed to mine the coin and...
> ...


As I said in my earlier post they do care about the environment, their own from what I see as a neighbor to China is everyone else can go suck eggs.


----------



## ThrashZone (Sep 26, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> This is when we know we have a serious problem.


Hi,
Jokes on them feds were going to shut it down anyway soon lol


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 26, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Jokes on them feds were going to shut it down anyway soon lol



How do you know this? I hope you are correct, but how do you know?


----------



## ThrashZone (Sep 26, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> How do you know this? I hope you are correct, but how do you know?


Hi,
Coal is on the lib hit list pocahontas will have fun with this purchase lol


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 26, 2021)

pavle said:


> I'm quite pleased with their ending of cryptocrap.


From 2013.  Yeash you guys are suckers.



ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Coal is on the lib hit list pocahontas will have fun with this purchase lol


Yeah that's not a policy citation.


----------



## chrcoluk (Sep 26, 2021)

Mining cant die soon enough, its not just expensive GPUs been the problem, but the UK now has a energy crisis with rampant inflation on Electricity.


----------



## erocker (Sep 26, 2021)

So, it looks like this has done nothing. It's still up for the year and on a slight downward trend for the month but relatively flat.


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 26, 2021)

erocker said:


> So, it looks like this has done nothing. It's still up for the year and on a slight downward trend for the month but relatively flat.



Yes, we all already came to this conclusion. Because western governments are so corrupt and actually don't care about energy grids or climate change they won't join China in this ban.

Let's just say climate change isn't real, and have another thought. 

@ThrashZone Let's say I agree with you and climate change isn't real, its no secret that coal plants can cause asthma issues, and environmental issues in real time, and it is a worrying trend to see yet another coal plant being fired up, as I said number 5 within a year this time in state of PA and they intend to ramp up production to go from 1800 BTC miners to 20k BTC miners. During the industrial revolution there were loads and loads of issues with pollution across the world, until we got it sorted, this is honestly a worrying trend in the wrong direction. I will however agree with you though, that the Dems should have allowed the Canada oil pipeline to be built, for national security reasons, but I also think alongside that national security of having that oil pipeline we should also slowly be building or incentivizing climate change RnD technology, we don't spend enough on proper high level RnD anymore.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Sep 26, 2021)

erocker said:


> So, it looks like this has done nothing. It's still up for the year and on a slight downward trend for the month but relatively flat.


Where are you looking? Last 30 days have been a steady downward slope..


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 26, 2021)

chrcoluk said:


> Mining cant die soon enough, its not just expensive GPUs been the problem, but the UK now has a energy crisis with rampant inflation on Electricity.


Which means probably everyone stopped mining there.  Economics.



lexluthermiester said:


> Where are you looking? Last 30 days have been a steady downward slope..
> View attachment 218332


5.5% on ethereum ain't much.


----------



## Space Lynx (Sep 26, 2021)

I honestly wouldn't mind crypto if it didn't require so much energy or it was tied to folding at home /wcg etc projects (yes I know this was attempted and it failed, but I mean like hypothetically early on the person who invented BTC, I wish they had used their genius to figure it out early on). Instead of wasted energy proof of work, at least we would be having a win win situation.  @trog100 Do you at least agree with me on this?


----------



## xcescxa (Sep 27, 2021)

Title makes this sound like a joke.


----------



## The red spirit (Sep 27, 2021)

Liquid Cool said:


> When the words stop working...legislation is just around the corner.


To be honest, quite a few countries nowadays suffer from overconsumption than underconsumption. And some people lost their jobs, careers, some became disabled. You really can't blame them for going to crypto and doing other things to stay afloat.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 27, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> yes I know this was attempted and it failed,


It hasn't failed.  It just isn't as big.  "Failed" would mean GRIDcoin and such were gone.  They aren't.

They aren't as valuable as bitcoin, but, is that what it's about?

Sadly, of course it is.



The red spirit said:


> To be honest, quite a few countries nowadays suffer from overconsumption than underconsumption. And some people lost their jobs, careers, some became disabled. You really can't blame them for going to crypto and doing other things to stay afloat.


People who lost their jobs aren't setting up big mining farms.  They probably make up a massive minority of miners.


----------



## The red spirit (Sep 27, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> People who lost their jobs aren't setting up big mining farms.  They probably make up a massive minority of miners.


You can't really know. Perhaps not a farm, but they can take out savings and rent industrial space and buy cards, I wouldn't be surprised if some fools go into debt right now just to get those sweet mining dollars. Honestly, all this mining shit that we hear today isn't really an investment, but as long as people feel it is, they continue doing it. In reality it's a lot like day trading and those two are almost gambling. There was a significant stock dip recently and those who bought at lower prices, they could cash out 40% capital increase. That's not an awful gamble, knowing that historically poor times mean stock price dips and usually quick rebounds. Still, those who invest long term, they weren't really negatively affected. And if you need quick cash, investing is a bad idea, but when people are desperate and some are in panic, they don't think straight.


----------



## OneMoar (Sep 27, 2021)

well that lasted about 30 seconds its already rebounded to pre-china-in-bullpen levels


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 27, 2021)

OneMoar said:


> well that lasted about 30 seconds its already rebounded to pre-china-in-bullpen levels


It's because as I said, no real money is in China anymore.  They can't ban something for the third time and expect a serious movement.  It's become "boy who cried wolf" for them.  It doesn't matter if they've extended the scope, or dedicated the peoples uber-elite special police unit to the task:  no one cares anymore.


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## Chomiq (Sep 27, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Where are you looking? Last 30 days have been a steady downward slope..
> View attachment 218332


I guess it's all a matter of perspective:


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## Vayra86 (Sep 27, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Bitcoin mining company buys Pennsylvania power plant to meet electricity needs
> 
> 
> Mining the top cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum requires vast amounts of power. A single Bitcoin transaction, including the resources needed to mine the coin and...
> ...



China has one fundamental problem. It is a totalitarian state and regime. And history repeats - every single one of those that went for unbridled growth, failed when they became very successful. This could also be the case for the US - but there is one fundamental difference there, it is not a totalitarian state, but a relatively open one, making it a more flexible one. What you're seeing with China right now is Xi front and center, the puppet becomes the master which erodes the effectiveness of the system. Its happening on daily basis now, and it started the very moment Xi Jinping started clamping down on things - from Hong Kong to chip industry to 5G... every single move is getting hard counters from the international community, however delayed they might be. And many things also start falling apart: the illusion of cheap and infinite Chinese labor, the stability of supply lines failing, Evergrande, etc etc etc.

Another fundamental problem with states like China is the apparatus and its quirks that are keen to develop major problems that will only come to light when the shit has royally hit the fan. Case in point: the early news surrounding Covid and how China didn't warn anyone until it was way too late. The reflex was to contain the problem and pretend nothing happened. Try that in an open democracy.

Who you 'are' as a state and people defines a lot going forward as it always has. The values you choose to support, all of that, is probably a more powerful force than repression and guns - _especially_ in a newborn internet society of snowflakes, where power is exercised through market share and 'influence' is the buzz you can generate. Chances are the world is soon too connected to even justify shooting.


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## joemama (Sep 27, 2021)

They probably ban cryto because of the recent electricity shortage


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## dorsetknob (Sep 27, 2021)

trog100 said:


> crypto negative news generates lots of comment on this forum.. crypto positive news generates next to none..


You can put lipstick on a pig and take it out on a date but its still a pig


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## Space Lynx (Sep 27, 2021)

as I said before, the silence from the Democrats of the western nations not following China's lead on this ban is the loudest silence I have ever heard. they don't care about anything but pronouns. if the Democrats ever claim climate change is important to them, all anyone ever needs to do is point to this moment in history to refute their claims. it's that simple.


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## R-T-B (Sep 27, 2021)

dorsetknob said:


> You can put lipstick on a pig and take it out on a date but its still a pig


Pigs make bacon.



lynx29 said:


> as I said before, the silence from the Democrats of the western nations not following China's lead on this ban is the loudest silence I have ever heard. they don't care about anything but pronouns. if the Democrats ever claim climate change is important to them, all anyone ever needs to do is point to this moment in history to refute their claims. it's that simple.


Or they just see this for the transparent move that it is.

Crypto isn't at all the biggest factor in climate change.  They honestly need to hit big industry with big regulations, mainly.  They never will of course, so you aren't completely off target.  It's depressing


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## Vya Domus (Sep 27, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Also, to those of you who say China does not care about climate change, due to the rhetoric you hear over the news, etc. Keep in mind China has a very very ancient history. They still do care about environment in ways we probably don't even understand, see below about Chinese Aesthetics:



No, no one cares about climate change, they just pretend they do for a myriad of reason. Climate change, or more specifically the influence humans have over the climate because the climate changes anyway and that can't be stopped, is a subject too messed up and politized to get into right now. The point is, I don't think crypto is the greatest thing since sliced bread even though I trade it regularly.

However, the "concerns" about it's power usage and impact on climate are pathetic and clearly bogus when China builds the most coal power plants on the whole planet. Something else is at play here, my guess is that China would like to reap the profits from crypto but they don't like how democratized it is and how anyone else can at the same time.


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## Chomiq (Sep 27, 2021)

Vya Domus said:


> No, no one cares about climate change, they just pretend they do for a myriad of reason. Climate change, or more specifically the influence humans have over the climate because the climate changes anyway and that can't be stopped, is a subject too messed up and politized to get into right now. The point is, I don't think crypto is the greatest thing since sliced bread even though I trade it regularly.
> 
> However, the "concerns" about it's power usage and impact on climate are pathetic and clearly bogus when China builds the most coal power plants on the whole planet. Something else is at play here, my guess is that China would like to reap the profits from crypto but they don't like how democratized it is and how anyone else can at the same time.


As I mentioned before - China has it's own official electronic currency which CCP wants to use to have better oversight over the citizens. If something is out of grasp of the CCP it will be banned, sooner or later.


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## Space Lynx (Sep 27, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Pigs make bacon.
> 
> 
> Or they just see this for the transparent move that it is.
> ...



ye I no longer care anymore. I'll be dead within 20 years most likely, world has chewed me up and spit me out to many times to count. I no longer care about many things. I probably will just keep watching Carl Sagan Cosmos on repeat until my end comes. I hope everyone else enjoys their shiny new iphone every year... so blinded the species is...


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## R0H1T (Sep 27, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> If something is out of grasp of the CCP it will be banned, sooner or later.


It'll not be banned completely because I'm 1000% sure CCP & the other elites in the country make money off of it. So as long they're doing that crypto or any particular cryptocurrency will not be permanently banned.


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## Vya Domus (Sep 27, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> As I mentioned before - China has it's own official electronic currency which CCP wants to use to have better oversight over the citizens. If something is out of grasp of the CCP it will be banned, sooner or later.


Which means this is inconsequential for the western world at the end of the day because they follow up with the same decisions only when there is money to be made. But in this case every country can profit from crypto irrespective from what China does.


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## erocker (Sep 27, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Where are you looking? Last 30 days have been a steady downward slope..
> View attachment 218332


Yeah that looks about right, I suppose it is more of a slope.


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## trog100 (Sep 27, 2021)

china dosnt like bitcoin because it sees it as threat to its own state run digital yuan.. no other reason.. 

its all about power and control nothing to do with using less energy..

trog


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## Space Lynx (Sep 27, 2021)

trog100 said:


> china dosnt like bitcoin because it sees it as threat to its own state run digital yuan.. no other reason..
> 
> its all about power and control nothing to do with using less energy..
> 
> trog



I don't care if that is true or not, you are missing my point.  Let's say this is the 100% truth, its still an opportunity for people who care about the environment with left wing majorities to finally try to get a win in the name of climate change (again whether or not you agree with it), and the silence from those western countries is... rather shocking.

The truth is, short term greed and self-preservation at the subconscious level conquer all humans, even though we are capable of thinking long term, we will still be a short lived species. I find it interesting, rather than actually caring, at this point.  /shrug  an odd species we are indeed.


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## Metroid (Sep 27, 2021)

BTC will crash very hard below 10k and then will stay around 15k next 4 years but for that to happen, bitcoin needs to go to at least 79k. Also like I said before, every time china headlines "bans cryptos", the effect is less and less, it's funny that people expect a headlines in order for cryptos to crash or pump, yes that is true in the past where fud used to take over, nowadays manipulators dont care about it anymore, headlines or not is crashing hard or pumping hard, meaning, be extremely careful when is very quiet, I remember that btc in 2015 crashed in january from 400 usd to 100 usd when people were not expecting a crash.


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## trog100 (Sep 27, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I don't care if that is true or not, you are missing my point.  Let's say this is the 100% truth, its still an opportunity for people who care about the environment with left wing majorities to finally try to get a win in the name of climate change (again whether or not you agree with it), and the silence from those western countries is... rather shocking.
> 
> The truth is, short term greed and self-preservation at the subconscious level conquer all humans, even though we are capable of thinking long term, we will still be a short lived species. I find it interesting, rather than actually caring, at this point.  /shrug  an odd species we are indeed.



you are condemning human kind for being what it is lynx.. china creates most of the worlds pollution simply because it makes most of the worlds stuff.. the west consumes what china makes..

consuming less stuff would mean less pollution.. but that aint gonna happen willingly..

from what i read china has an energy crisis.. its currently applying energy use restrictions.. factories are being are being shut down or restricted on how many days they can operate..

in short they are trying to lessen energy use without pissing off the people too much and causing revolt.. it seems they are preparing for "something".. whatever that "something" is it aint good..

here in the UK i went down to my local garage to fill up my already half full tank.. the pumps were closed.. they blame it on a truck driver shortage.. food shelves will be next..

i am not overly bothered about not being able to fill my tanks.. the summer is over and i dont plan on going anywhere soon and i could do my local trips on an electric trike i just built.. i could honestly park my truck up for six months and it would not bother me that much..

they call it panic buying but a lot of it is not keeping adequate reserves in their fuel tanks.. the same applies to food.. people have become too used to buying it as they eat it.. again they dont keep enough in reserve.. i have enough "essentials" to last at least a month.. most people dont..

i think we are looking at bad times ahead.. all i am gonna say is.. it has f-ck all to do with bitcoin.. he he..

trog

ps.. china also seems to be clamping down heavily on personal wealth.. celebs and very rich people are being "disappeared".. china is moving more communist their own digital yuan as the only "money" will give them total control over this.. any alternative such as bitcoin has to be gotten rid of..


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 27, 2021)

Chomiq said:


> I guess it's all a matter of perspective:
> View attachment 218354


Fair point. However, I'm only looking 30days back because the announcement happened within the last 30days and I'm watching the market reactions accordingly.



lynx29 said:


> so blinded the species is...


No all of us..


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## Space Lynx (Sep 27, 2021)

trog100 said:


> you are condemning human kind for being what it is lynx.. china creates most of the worlds pollution simply because it makes most of the worlds stuff.. the west consumes what china makes..
> 
> consuming less stuff would mean less pollution.. but that aint gonna happen willingly..
> 
> ...



I never said any of that shortage stuff had to do with BTC etc, imo it has to do with Brexit. From what I read about the lorry driver shortage, 14,000 lorry drivers were deported under Brexit... that is a heck of a lot of drivers...


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## las (Sep 27, 2021)

This is great news.

Let it die, like Chia.


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## r9 (Sep 27, 2021)

mtcn77 said:


> It is ironic that china was the country with the most mining activity, though.


That's what I was thinking but on the other hand they are also big of controlling their people.


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## Chomiq (Sep 27, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> I never said any of that shortage stuff had to do with BTC etc, imo it has to do with Brexit. From what I read about the lorry driver shortage, 14,000 lorry drivers were deported under Brexit... that is a heck of a lot of drivers...





> But he criticised the DVLA for the "ridiculous" numbers of HGV driver applications waiting to be processed.
> 
> The DVLA said there were more than 54,000 pending applications for licences, although some of those may be renewals and drivers can continue to work while they are dealt with.





> On Saturday, the government also announced it would offer temporary visas, lasting until Christmas Eve, to 5,000 foreign fuel tanker and food lorry drivers and 5,500 poultry workers in a bid to limit disruption in the build up to Christmas.
> Other measures include sending nearly one million letters to drivers who hold an HGV licence - to encourage them back into the industry - and plans to train 4,000 people to become HGV drivers.





> The UK had lost 72,000 drivers between the second quarter of 2019 and the same period in 2021, Ms de Jong said - partly due to people returning to the EU after Brexit.











						Fuel demand should return to normal in coming days, say suppliers
					

Ministers are still seriously considering using the Army to drive tankers, sources tell the BBC.



					www.bbc.com
				



It's a combination of Brexit, incompetence and people panic buying.


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## ThrashZone (Sep 27, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> @ThrashZone Let's say I agree with you and climate change isn't real, its no secret that coal plants can cause asthma issues, and environmental issues in real time, and it is a worrying trend to see yet another coal plant being fired up, as I said number 5 within a year this time in state of PA and they intend to ramp up production to go from 1800 BTC miners to 20k BTC miners. During the industrial revolution there were loads and loads of issues with pollution across the world, until we got it sorted, this is honestly a worrying trend in the wrong direction. I will however agree with you though, that the Dems should have allowed the Canada oil pipeline to be built, for national security reasons, but I also think alongside that national security of having that oil pipeline we should also slowly be building or incentivizing climate change RnD technology, we don't spend enough on proper high level RnD anymore.


Hi,
Think you read way too much into what I said lol


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## trog100 (Sep 27, 2021)

lexluthermiester said:


> Fair point. However, I'm only looking 30days back because the announcement happened within the last 30days and I'm watching the market reactions accordingly.
> 
> 
> No all of us..



you are looking 30 days back because  that suits your purpose better.. the "announcement" happened about five days back and basically didnt cause much of a price drop.. it was pretty much a none event.. 

as for the UK gas shortage the so called panic buying wont last long.. its just a one off happening once the tank is full its full.. 

the HVG driver shortage will however last a fair bit longer.. 

but i repeat none of this has anything to do with crypto.. 

trog


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## ThaiTaffy (Sep 27, 2021)

Unless your miners are running off a generator in which case "haha"


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## lexluthermiester (Sep 27, 2021)

erocker said:


> Yeah that looks about right, I suppose it is more of a slope.


Granted, that might change.


trog100 said:


> you are looking 30 days back because that suits your purpose better..


No, I'm looking 30 days back because the context of current events only require a look back that far. Do not assume the context of my intentions to suit your personal narrative.


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## cst1992 (Sep 27, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> It's nice to see some countries still care about climate change.


Good. About time.


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## R-T-B (Sep 27, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> ye I no longer care anymore. I'll be dead within 20 years most likely, world has chewed me up and spit me out to many times to count. I no longer care about many things. I probably will just keep watching Carl Sagan Cosmos on repeat until my end comes. I hope everyone else enjoys their shiny new iphone every year... so blinded the species is...



Just take it one day at a time man.  You never know what tomorrow might bring.


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## xkm1948 (Sep 27, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Crypto isn't at all the biggest factor in climate change.  They honestly need to hit big industry with big regulations, mainly.  They never will of course, so you aren't completely off target.  It's depressing


This exactly. Target on Crypto is just an easy scapegoat.


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## ThrashZone (Sep 27, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Just take it one day at a time man.  You never know what tomorrow might bring.


Hi,
Yeah what happened to we all only have 5 or 10 years to go ?
Seems people have been saying they for decades but at least once a week here on tpu.


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## R-T-B (Sep 27, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Yeah what happened to we all only have 5 or 10 years to go ?
> Seems people have been saying they for decades but at least once a week here on tpu.


He isn't wrong to be worried.  People died related to global warming heating in my city this very year.

But that is offtopic from the subject of fabs, and the point is, enjoy the present, do what you can, and don't borrow trouble.  It helps keep you sane


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## Barcode (Sep 27, 2021)

nguyen said:


> Sweet, waiting for cheap used Ampere GPU flooding the market any moment now.....


China doesn't spend its money in China, they spend it in the US mainly. Don't hold your breath on those miners just yet...


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## trog100 (Sep 27, 2021)

well i have just bought five 100AH lithium batteries and ten 150 watt solar panels to go on my shed roof.. i am preparing for when the lights go out.. he he he

trog


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## ThaiTaffy (Sep 27, 2021)

trog100 said:


> well i have just bought five 100AH lithium batteries and ten 150 watt solar panels to go on my shed roof.. i am preparing for when the lights go out.. he he he
> 
> trog


Make sure you wire those batteries up properly 90% of the videos online have no idea what balanced batteries are and won't last a few years and my advise would be buy yourself a good on/off grid tie in inverter so you can save some pennies till the world finally collapses.


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## trog100 (Sep 27, 2021)

ThaiTaffy said:


> Make sure you wire those batteries up properly 90% of the videos online have no idea what balanced batteries are and won't last a few years and my advise would be buy yourself a good on/off grid tie in inverter so you can save some pennies till the world finally collapses.



i have a done something similar to my RV trailer so have a vague idea of what i am doing.. 

trog


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## mtcn77 (Sep 28, 2021)

r9 said:


> That's what I was thinking but on the other hand they are also big of controlling their people.


But it is a very chinese thing to do. Look at the realty sector. The chinese only value the potential value of an investment, right up in bitcoin's speculative alley. One could say bitcoin is designed to get the chinese hooked.


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## Khonjel (Sep 28, 2021)

Binance (crypto exchange platform) started banning Singaporeans after Govt. threatened them. Let's go semi-authoritarian and authoritarian assholes. Ban crypto to the moon.


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