# legit users screwed by xp activation hell :mad:



## redwing26 (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi I would appreciate it if people would read my reply to a very good windows xp activation article as I would like to share my disgust from this day forth with microsoft and their utter disregard for their end users ....see my reply below ......Ive have covered the following below but I urge like minded users to think about what its like to be treated like you are 

1. a thief
2. are extremely dumb and actually believe that xp activation actually benefits you and cannot see microsofts real motives ....however see below 

article reply start---
Hi initially i must say that I think your article is very good ......and it shocked me to find the methods microsoft are using for the activation such as checking hardware configurations .......the minute I was read this I thought OMG what if i want to do some major upgrade on my machine and then offcourse I read the next few questions and find the article author obviously realised this as well. 

Now to my situation.......I am passionate about PCs and I live in my house with my 2 parents who are pensioners ......anyway I was using windows millinium and I decided to buy a legitamate copy of xp pro oem for home use for myself and also put it on my parents machines , I assumed everything would be ok(silly me should have read the small print) and my computer with windows millinium on it was running fine so I decided to install xp pro on my fathers machine as it needed some maintenance after being running sometime ......anyway I installed it on my machine today and got the activation screen so I thought I would go through the process and it would be fine but to my utter disgust I only have a 30 day trial.......anyway one of my parents phoned up the support line while I got my installation id and he explained to them that theres just the 3 off us in the house and were all home users with no bussiness and the persons attitude was terrible .......they basically tried to say that it was for the benefit of customers(ME and others like me  )and to help prevent piracy .....hmm kind of stupid considering we explained we have a legitamate copy......I then took the phone and became extremely angry ........basically microsofts solution is for people who are in low paid jobs or unemployed to purchase 1 copy per machine .......hence I was expected to buy 3 copys (HOW RIDICULOUS) which would total approximately £255 ....... At the end of the day we are a family who are FAR from rich as implied we dont get lots of cash; we all chip in together to make ends meet and it is unrealistic to expect anyone other than the extreme rich or software pirates to be able to use microsoft windows......the ironic thing is I have in the past said to people that microsoft isnt that bad.......that is until they have brought out this activation crap whos only purpose is to line the pockets of the microsoft directors. I personally will be more motivated to port to a linux flavour now and I also feel that it is about time users started boycotting the companies that quite frankly are treating users like thieves who are also severely dumb. One final thing .......I realise I made a mistake purchasing the oem version but the standard version was way out of my price range and is not worth the hefty price tag.........a more potent issue than that is the fact that microsoft are checking a systems spec and using it against legitamate users in a way that feels like spyware to me. 

Regards
David

article reply end----


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## Solaris17 (Jan 19, 2006)

Actually that is kinda rediculouse i would be so angry.....


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## aff1nity (Jan 19, 2006)

It sounds like linux would be perfect for you =)

I understand your pain about this whole microsoft windows ordeal, but if your parents don't do any kind of gaming or 3d design or any of that sort of thing that runs mostly on windows (which I suspect they don't) I can imagine working fine. Have you heard of ubuntu? Not only is it free, but it's also much easier to use than most linux distributions (still has a slight learning curve) but is based on Debian (and is very stable!) You also don't have to worry about your parents going off to some random site or link and getting infected with a virus.

Best of all it's free and the software included is actually fairly high quality. (OpenOffice... etc)

Not all is lost =) You can use one system for the programs that require windows and just have the other systems running linux (ubuntu or mandriva.)


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## Solaris17 (Jan 19, 2006)

^ well put exellent infact!   A++


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## Polaris573 (Jan 19, 2006)

I can see it now...

Buy your copy of Windows Freedom version today!  With new, imporved security protocols that log every action on your PC to provide maximum security and ease of use* to you, the end-user!



*Windows Freedom® runs best on Microsoft© hardware.


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## Solaris17 (Jan 19, 2006)

Polaris573 said:
			
		

> I can see it now...
> 
> Buy your copy of Windows Freedom version today!  With new, imporved security protocols that log every action on your PC to provide maximum security and ease of use* to you, the end-user!
> 
> ...


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## Thermopylae_480 (Jan 19, 2006)

Polaris573 said:
			
		

> I can see it now...
> 
> Buy your copy of Windows Freedom version today!  With new, imporved security protocols that log every action on your PC to provide maximum security and ease of use* to you, the end-user!
> 
> ...



*Cough... Patriot Act.


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## wazzledoozle (Jan 19, 2006)

There are ways around activation.

In the time it took you to write all this, a simple google search could solve your problems.

But I wont stop you, go on, keep bitching.

And I second Ubuntu for ordinary tasks. You could even set it up to boot off a cd so nothing can get messed up.


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## Thermopylae_480 (Jan 19, 2006)

I would have to agree, in part, to wazz's reply.  There are many ways to get around Windows activation; I would say that they are technically legal too.  You have already purchased the program, you are not making any illegal copies, editing any code or distributing the product for profit or otherwise.  You would have fooled a the annoying "feature" which supposedly protects you and is for your benefit.  I feel its no different than not registering a game you have bought, just a little more evasive.

I have to disagree with your Unnesessarily harsh berating of redwing however.  His post is in the correct location, he has not offended anyone with his thread, he has made perfectly clear what his problem is in a way that many of us can sympathize. He may not have been aware of ways to get around activation; it should not be assumed that he should be able to arrive to this conclusion on his own.  I feel this site is primarily a tool to support, and share technological experiences; with a more human element than google offers.  The purpose of this site would therefore be negated if we all went to google with our problems.  This thread has, in additon, followed its correct form; An idea was proffered > it was discussed > and a solution was found.  If it contained a human element in the original question, I feel that only enriches the experience offered by the website.


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## PaulC2K (Jan 19, 2006)

Personally i think its a bit rich to expect Microsoft to be all friendly with someone who is effectively installing software onto machines which dont own a licence which allows them this privellage.
You get a CD and a licence for the installation onto 1 computer, thats microsofts view on things anyway, so to expect them to be fine with multiple installations per licence is too them as much of a joke as you expecting them to understand your financial circumstances.

Personally i understand your situation, I barely earn enough money just to cover CC repayments let alone to actually live a little, and it is a pain in the backside having to pay out for all those machines, with the exception of my current machine i've never installed a geniune OS since win98 (those before werent purchased by me, but were legit though) and had it not been for the fact that this machine came with the licence then that cycle wouldnt have ended either! 
Personally i'd have said it might have just been easier to stick with WinME or something that once installed you were all set and didnt have anything to worry about.

p.s 
3 computers in 1 house, and an extra $60 per licence sounds ridiculus to you?
Sell one and theres at least the licence fee for the other, are all 3 really used at the same time all that frequently??
not knocking you, just something to think about while your asking Microsoft to understand your situ.


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## Polaris573 (Jan 20, 2006)

Why can't you put software that you own. On more than one computer that you own.  I could understand if you weren't allowed to put it on a friends computer.  It's like buying gas in a gas can and having the gas station tell you to pay for it again if you put it in more than one lawnmower.


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## PaulC2K (Jan 20, 2006)

Then what about businesses?
Do they only need to pay for 1 licence for the machines they install something onto?

Im no fan of microsoft here, but its not like they're doing something terrible while all the others say sure, stick it on every machine you own wink wink.
Games say you have to have the disc in the drive to play, if you dont have a disc you cant play it, so they stop you from running it on multiple devices at the same time. Other software companies also forbid you from using purchased software on more than one machine, what these companys are selling you is the right to use there software, for life, for a year, whatever, but its the right to use that peice of software on a specific machine of your choice.
Norton use the 365 days method for there AV software so come the end of the year you either pay for another years licence or just buy the new version, but they're selling you a service of which your paying to use to the agreement of they're terms & conditions.

btw, im more than aware you can install the game elsewhere and still play it, but an OS or AV software isnt something you'd stop using so you could run it elsewhere, so they dont need a 1 machine policy, but having that CD/DVD proves at least you have a right to run that software to there terms.

This goes much further than MS really, there just an easy target because almost everyone runs there OS and cos frankly they're a bunch of greedy.......


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## DevilDriver (Jan 20, 2006)

I have to agree with PaulC2K.
Its not like this is a new thing, or a hiden fact. Its the way its been since the release of xp. when you purchase any copy of xp other than a VLK version you have purchased the right to install the oc on one machine, and one machine only.
Do I agree with this policy? NO. but its the way it is  
Read any EULA and you will see that you do not own the software you have purchased, but rather a licence to use the software under there terms.


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## Thermopylae_480 (Jan 20, 2006)

I guess it comes down to, if you don't like the activation don't be a part of the problem and buy the liscense for additional computers.  I'm sure Microsoft will put the additional Billions in profit to keeping Windows stable and IE secure  .  Personally I don't think it would hurt Microsoft's sales if the uped the amount of computers you could install your purchased copy of windows on to 3.  It would be and excellent public relations gesture since most people have about 2-3 computers, and it is unrealistic to think the majority of global citizens can afford to pay the equivalent $268 for the an OEM 3 pack of Windows XP HOME.  Or the $438 OEM 3 Pack of XP Pro.  Lets face it, the only reason they can charge so much is because they have a virtual monoply for the IBM Compatable PC market.  Yes I know there are alternative OSs, but if you want to use most main stream apps, you are still stuck with Windows.


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## trog100 (Jan 20, 2006)

nice plan really.. windows must be the most pirated piece of software on ther planet.. has been for years.. microsoft could be considered to be one of the riches and most monopolistically powerfull companies on the planet..

kinda put the two together and it kinda suggests "permitted" piracy kinda helped MS become what it is today.. the really clever bit is now we are all dependant on windows (and we are really) they somehow manage to make all the (dependant) users actually pay rip off prices for it..

or more accurately pay to use it.. one copy (payment) per machine of course.. he he

trog


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## redwing26 (Jan 21, 2006)

Hi folks thanks for your replys .............and I appreciate peoples honest opinions , Im actually in the process of installing gentoo although ubuntu seems like it would be good so I may go with that. Also Im glad that in general the users of the forum saw my post for what it is, which is to highlight my experience in the hope that other users in a similiar situation may avoid the traps that I have fallen into and also to highlight(argubly) how quite a large number of home users and others feel. 

I cant go back to the site where I initially started the thread basically because I felt that there were some provocative comments and I didnt want the site where the initial article was to descend into a flame war; I took quite a bit of flak on this site (which is to be expected I guess) for stating a valid opinion.......however if your interested here is the link 

http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/winxp/1137816876

Im going to start a thread about ubunto its just I installed gentoo ....I have an ati radeon 128 and my display is corrupted and also my internet doesnt work after install even though i read the docs (i will learn eventually i guess  ) , I also intend to install wine to try and get my windows games working

Some really good views and common sense ideas on this forum  

Regards
David


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## Steven B (Jan 21, 2006)

i dont know anyone who buys more than 1 copy of xp for more than 1 machine, except for businesses and corporations.... thats all im saying.


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## aff1nity (Jan 21, 2006)

Oooh... gentoo? Even though I haven't tried that, I heard it's a harder linux OS to start with, since it involves much more initial customization than mandriva or ubuntu, which both have easier install processes (I'm pretty sure) But good luck!


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## Solaris17 (Jan 21, 2006)

^ ya i whanted to try Gentoo sooo bad i have the distro but i tried to install it once and was like....bout that...restart.


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## trog100 (Jan 21, 2006)

they tried this kinda stuff when XP first got announced.. bad press got em to loosen things off a bit.. most folks get their copy of windows when they get there new computer and that is only intended to be used on the machine it came installed with..

the current thing anti-piracy wise is the new authenification software that gets installed as soon as u attempt to update anything.. security updates still work but nothing else will if the mothership dosnt like your system/key combination..

combine the authenification software with auto updates and MS have acces to your machine anytime they like.. in theory they could just switch it off if they thought u were running a pirate version of windows.. perhaps thats the next step... he he he

trog


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## Thermopylae_480 (Jan 21, 2006)

In my opinion corportate invasion of personal privacy is almost as bad as the government doing it.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jan 21, 2006)

aff1nity said:
			
		

> Oooh... gentoo? Even though I haven't tried that, I heard it's a harder linux OS to start with, since it involves much more initial customization than mandriva or ubuntu, which both have easier install processes (I'm pretty sure) But good luck!




If your wanting to learn, dont try gentoo... 

Id say ubuntu, or maybe mandriva...


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## AMDCam (Jan 22, 2006)

Oh thermo, I hope you don't mean that. The good thing is you're american so you have the right to insult us, but that probably means you're a democrat too. I'm not gonna hijack the thread and turn this political, but blatent insults to our government just pisses me off. Sorry


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## mex (Jan 23, 2006)

Well I have to say I have read through all of your comments and there is a lot of controversy and defiantly two ends to this issue.

The Bottom line for Microsoft is the more copies of an OS they push people into buying the more money they are going to make.  I am sure that some of that money is going to go back into research and design and keep technology evolving. However, they run the company to be successful and make money which is what they are doing.

But on the other hand there are people that can’t even afford to buy a single copy of a Microsoft OS and that means they are forced to break the law. And that to me is outrages!  This is especially true when Microsoft actually Give free software to secondary schools including Microsoft’s full range so that young people will become familiarized with Microsoft products and therefore more likely to buy MS in the future! That’s great if you can afford it but what have MS done if you can’t?

I own legitimate copies for all my computers but that’s because I don’t want to support any black market for this type of thing. But if Microsoft don’t start doing something soon they will be equally responsible for supporting fraud by making there home used software unaffordable to everyone! There must be a compromise.

I would like to see MS to be a little more forgiving with there OS and perhaps increase there licensing to at least 3 computers per copy of Home edition or lowering the cost of a basic version so everyone can enjoy it. Let’s face it without Microsoft where would we be But they must be reasonable!!


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## djbbenn (Jan 23, 2006)

I got caught up on activation on the weekend... I changed hardware more than 3 times on my main system, so it wouldn't activate. Personally, I think that's very wrong. You bought the OS; it's retarded that they limit you on how many time you can change hardware and still install the OS!

-Dan


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## trog100 (Jan 23, 2006)

"I own legitimate copies for all my computers but that’s because I don’t want to support any black market for this type of thing."

it has been said that the black economy is the oil that enables the gears of the legitimate economy to keep turning.. or in my own words that the two are part of a "whole" and one cannot exist without the other..

before any piece of software becomes the "norm" it has to be either given away free (winzip was good example of this) or be kinda carelessly left laying around so that folks can steal it.. he he he..

if the only way u could listen to music was to pay ten dollars for a CD.. folks would find other ways to pass their time.. the entire music industry would not exist.. if the only way u could fill up your 20 gig ipod was to pay $10.000 to legitimately download mps another industry would not exist..

a lot of folks might dissagree.. but the entire mass market (cheap) PC industry would not exist without software piracy.. what folks seem to forget is that to make one of those (cheap) $500 PCs do anything usefull it has to be loaded with software.. we are back to the ipod situation here.. 

either way the anti-piracy lobbies statement that each pirate copy equals a lost payment in revenue is total utter rubbish..

the truth.. some kind of weird symbiotic relationship exsists between legit and none legit.. things aint quite as simple as they seem..

one thing is clear human being are "gatherers" by nature.. if u dont have some effective means of preventing other "gatherers" from "gathering" what u claim to be yours.. there aint much point in claiming ownership.. with things of a digital nature.. that effective means dosnt exist and i cant see how it ever will..

trog


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jan 24, 2006)

djbbenn said:
			
		

> I got caught up on activation on the weekend... I changed hardware more than 3 times on my main system, so it wouldn't activate. Personally, I think that's very wrong. You bought the OS; it's retarded that they limit you on how many time you can change hardware and still install the OS!
> 
> -Dan



You're not actually limited.. it just reacts once you change a large portion.  Its perfectly legal to reactivate it if you swap some parts... as its still a single computer, which is well within the license agreement..


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## djbbenn (Jan 24, 2006)

Well all I know it wouldn't activate... doesn't matter now though.

-Dan


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## tony929292 (Jan 24, 2006)

when my bother bulit his computer he used a copy of a dell oem xp home had to phone in the actavtion told them that he just purchsed a new hard drive and they give him the activtion code he didnt reuse 1 thing from the dell (besides the xp cd)


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## infrared (Jan 24, 2006)

damn. I tried to use the dell oem cd on mine, and i got an error message saying something along the lines of 'this xp installation disk can only be used on a dell pc'...

.. So i used the cd off my old blown-up laptop!


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## Jimmy 2004 (Jan 24, 2006)

In my opinion, if you want a pirated copy of windows, use one. Microsoft's main aim is for profit, and their economists and managers have decided that having the price of windows as it is will get them the most money... every business works like that.


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## mex (Jan 24, 2006)

Well you should all get two activations per full copy of XP except for the Copies with dell.

If when you first install windows XP you should only select Activate Now and not to register.

If you were to phone up and tell them your dilemma and that in your Knowledge this software is only installed on one computer they will be happy to read you another activation code.

However, if when you go though a validation period because you are trying to use windows updates from two different hardware configs you will be refused the updates.

A little tip though, and I guess I shouldn’t say this but people who cant afford any valid activation codes could very easily go to Dixon’s or PC world and read of the side of one of there brand new pre installed windows xp machines and use that. Because it can be activated twice the person who buys the computer won’t even know the difference.


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## Steevo (Jan 24, 2006)

Wow.


What a bunch of tight asses. 

1) Good can exist without bad.
2) You are paying for a piece of software that took many hundreds of thousands of man hours to write. I know, as I was doing beta testing on XP. In return I got some gifts.
3) Three computers? Too poor to buy a copy of XP $90 but enough to have a few compys sitting around. Nice. Imagine you have three cars, and you go buy a new paint job for one, ONE mind you. Since you like that paint so much, you want to have your other two cars painted the same. The paint is already in use one one car, but you want it on three. Get the idea?
4) Linux. It is free. Almost any version. Want one? Download it. Install that on as many computers as you want.
5) One liceanse per machine. Pretty clear. Or mebey you could lie, or steal, or cheat to get one. Just shows what kind of person you are.
6) This one is great. You DON'T have to buy the OS. Really, no one is going to shoot you if you don't. 
7) Use what you have. No spider solitare on them? You can download it from sites. I swear. Or is the pretty XP look on your machines that you desired? Or perhaps to sell them?

The fact of the matter is. you bought one copy for use on one machine. It isn't gasoline, it isn't water. It's software. If you don't like it, don't buy it.


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## Thermopylae_480 (Jan 24, 2006)

AMDCam said:
			
		

> Oh thermo, I hope you don't mean that. The good thing is you're american so you have the right to insult us, but that probably means you're a democrat too. I'm not gonna hijack the thread and turn this political, but blatent insults to our government just pisses me off. Sorry



We've butted heads on this issue before AMD, I see no reason to do it again  . 
Please review this thread for my counter argument http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=5579&page=5.  



> it has been said that the black economy is the oil that enables the gears of the legitimate economy to keep turning.. or in my own words that the two are part of a "whole" and one cannot exist without the other..



I like Trog100's very eastern philosphy here.  I just thought I would point out your allusion to the Taoist philosphy of Yin and Yang we are all familiar with.

You can not justify a monopoly, it is self perpetuating, controlling and inherently destructive to free interprise and the economy.  I get bleak satisfaction in the idea that eventually Microsoft will fall from grace.  If Linux can survive for free, then Windows can be had for a reasonable price.


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## Steevo (Jan 24, 2006)

Thermopylae_480 said:
			
		

> I like Trog100's very eastern philosphy here.  I just thought I would point out your allusion to the Taoist philosphy of Yin and Yang we are all familiar with.
> 
> You can not justify a monopoly, it is self perpetuating, controlling and inherently destructive to free interprise and the economy.  I get bleak satisfaction in the idea that eventually Microsoft will fall from grace.  If Linux can survive for free, then Windows can be had for a reasonable price.



Of corse that is the great thinking of opium smokers and people who drank from leaden vessels. Today such people end up in homes. How disturbing that it must be that our greatest thinkers are in mental homes. 

The facts are simply MS was the first on the scene with a better product for the average user and is still on the scene for that same average user. If that doesn't float your boat, there are many others.


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## Thermopylae_480 (Jan 24, 2006)

The opiate trade was not initiated until the 1800's when Britain introduced it as a way to correct a trade imbalance with China.  A sad footnote in British history.  The idea to say the great chineese thinkers were opiate addicts is perpostorous.  China flourished and was many times more advanced than the west for thousands of years.


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## Steevo (Jan 25, 2006)

Would you be offended if I laughed at that statement?

"Opium

Domesticated in the eastern Mediterranean in ancient times, opium is one of the most venerable drugs in formal and folk pharmacopoeia. Opium's healing properties were detailed in the works of Hippocrates (466-377 BC) and the Roman physician Galen (130-200 AD.) Spreading across the Asian land mass, opium was described as an effective drug in China's Herbalist Treasure of 973 AD."

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/Philosophy/Taichi/taoism.html


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## tony929292 (Jan 25, 2006)

i dont know about the rest of u but i like # 5
5) One liceanse per machine. Pretty clear. Or mebey you could lie, or steal, or cheat to get one. Just shows what kind of person you are.

i do lie steal and cheat and i am proud of who i am
if you ran you mouth like that were i live you would be one of thoses people who get there ass beat all the time
but i also could have took a copy from anthor computer but i didnt i payed for both xp home and pro 64 and i feel like i got ripped of on the crappyness of 64 but i cant return that  any way that anthor story

but when it comes to stuck up people like you it makes me wish i did steal it
and if i could reuse the paint on my car for anything esle i need to paint i would and  you

and yea i have 3 computers all top of the line and yes i have the money to buy 3 versions of xp but way the fuck would i do that (it f-in stupid)
but you dont fuck anyone over do u you have never download copyrighted music park in a fire zone or throw some trash out your window going down the highway

btw s m d
9 duce b###h


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## AMDCam (Jan 25, 2006)

Well I do have the right to talk Thermo, I am doing something for my country (USMC). I just don't like uninformed democrats, I don't care who says America sucks, it's just the republicans don't insult and complain as much, so the democrats are heard a lot more. Sorry, it's done, no more subject with this


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## Steevo (Jan 25, 2006)

tony929292 said:
			
		

> i dont know about the rest of u but i like # 5
> 5) One liceanse per machine. Pretty clear. Or mebey you could lie, or steal, or cheat to get one. Just shows what kind of person you are.
> 
> i do lie steal and cheat and i am proud of who i am
> ...




  

Its that exact thinking that sets humankind back 100 years. Great observation on me being stuck up. I simply stated if you want that sort of label, go for it. And you for example want it. A guy I work with used to have that attitude. He was in for 20 years for stealing cars, drugs, assault, armed robbery, etc... He wasted years of his life trying to prove what he was and threating others to get ahead, when a simple bit of logic and understanding was all that was needed.

Do I download music? Yep. From MSN.
Do I park in fire zones? Nope, not that many of them around here.
Do I litter? No reason.

Some things I do, as I am imprefect and will fail. But will I willingly go out of my way to do wrong? Nah, doesn't get you anywhere.

As for kicking my ass, well, mebey.


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## wazzledoozle (Jan 25, 2006)

Oh god. This thread has certainly exploded.


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## mex (Jan 25, 2006)

Tony and Stevo this Forum is not about who I more Macho!

This is a discussion about the Price and future of MS.

You are missing the point Tony,  There are in my opinion people in this world that being left out for the simple fact is that they can’t afford the products.

Now I agree they can go and just find a cheaper option but don’t you think that is a little unfair that some people can’t even afford to purchase an operating system for there computer. I believe that everyone should be aloud on the same level without having to break the law to get there. 

And lets face it the reasons why these activations have to be set by MS is because there were too many people who were abusing the single licence.

Well if anyone has heard but Bill Gates has some scary ideas about what he want to-do with Windows and all his software.
If he gets it his way we will all have to connect to his servers to run Windows and to buy software will only be compatible when purchased from him.

Dribbled on for long enough, just one Tip though if you are going to change your Hardware then there are 2 patches you can use and a registry adapter that will enable you to change your hardware and not need to reinstall windows. Just like good old Windows 95.


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## djbbenn (Jan 25, 2006)

This isn't getting personal now is it? Because if it is, you can take it else where. 

And some of you should lay off the language on the forums. There is no need for it.

-Dan


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## Thermopylae_480 (Jan 26, 2006)

Steevo said:
			
		

> Would you be offended if I laughed at that statement?
> 
> "Opium
> 
> ...




My apologies.  I wasn't writing a history essay and did not choose my words as carefully as I should of.  I was specifically refering to the extreme opium addiction of China in the 1800s in order to clarify that the great Chineese philosophers were in all likely hood not addicted to opium. I realize opium as a medicinal form can be traced back to ancient China.  Prior to the British introducing and marketing opium as a form of recreation, I feel opium has had a only a negligible impact on China history. When the Mongolian empire was at its height there may have been some use of opium as a recreational drug, since it was a major source of trade.  I am fully aware of opiums origins and don't appreciate your "laugh" at my statment over a matter of semantics.  I feel it would have been more proper for you to simply disagree and state why.


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## CYBERX1800XT (Jan 26, 2006)

*Windows Xp Key??*

so the general consensus is if i own a legimate purchased version of XP w/sp2(witch i do) and still have purchase reciept,,and i decide to buy a new motherboard,,or a new vid card,or any major changes to my system more than 3 times,,im forced to have to spend another 300.00 for another full operating system? i just bought one 3 days before christmas. a full edition of win_xp pro w/sp2,,and it was the full blue box retail edition. it was 299.99 at best buy. i have to spend another 300 bucks to buy another operating system for the same pc??? what in the heck?????? my goodness,,no wonder bill gates is worth over 55 billion dollars. so my posted question is i can't change hardware more than 3 times? or i cant change hardware at all?? all the posts on this issue seems a little construded. i think the best way is someone call micosoft and ask them. not totally depend on other's opinions.


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## mex (Jan 26, 2006)

If you own a full copy then After the second time you intstall it just means you have to phone up for your activation key rather than read it from the box. Thats it. Simple! It gives you a free phone number to call when you go to activate.


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## Polaris573 (Jan 26, 2006)

What's the difference between the OEM version and retail version.  With OEM you get the same software at a significantly reduced price.  Whats the advantage of the retail Package?


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## mex (Jan 26, 2006)

There is no physical difference.

You can only buy OEM version of MS Software when you perchase a peice of hardware at the same time.

Oh and the OEM version does not come with a box.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jan 26, 2006)

mex said:
			
		

> If you own a full copy then After the second time you intstall it just means you have to phone up for your activation key rather than read it from the box. Thats it. Simple! It gives you a free phone number to call when you go to activate.



Indeed. I have used it several times. you just tell the computer your key, it fails, it connects you to a human, you tell them you formatted and its oinstalled on only one pc and bam done he gives you a code.


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## infrared (Jan 26, 2006)

They keep getting really suspicious with me, and i got quite angry with the person on the other  end for treating me like a complete tard who had just stolen a disk from another pc.

I think the reason being is that i've lost the cd key for my retail disk, so am using the key off my dead laptop. So it's only being used on one computer anyway.

The whole system sucks though. One thing that really pisses me off though, is the last time i had to phone up to get the code, i was speaking to some indian person i couldn't understand, and i had to ask him to repeat himself 7 times to get the code right... I mean, ffs


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## Thermopylae_480 (Jan 26, 2006)

You can get the OEM version from Newegg.  It saves a few bucks.


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## trog100 (Jan 27, 2006)

not so long back the UK definition of theft was to "permanently deprive the owner thereof".. 

there had to be an owner and he had to lose something.. i might be way of the beam here but to me there is a big distinction tween nipping down the local shop and bunging a copy of windows in your pocket than useing your dads copy on your own machine.. 

then of course we have the theory that adding to the coffers of a pigopoly like ms aint doing the world any favours and your money is better spent somewhere else where its needed a little more..

either way most of us do spent all our money.. any money going in the direction of ms is money not going to somewhere else.. being as i cant think of many places less in need of money than microsoft i feel it hard to grieve overmuch about any that gets diverted elsewhere..

i do feel that the thread starter was little naive in thinking the pigopolist might feel sorry for him thow.. he he he.. and the poor family with three computers but only one legit copy of windows between em carries about as much credibility as the pigopolist having any compassion.. 

a couple or so years back someone had the clever idea of giving all ancient (valueless) computers to the third world for the poor and possibly deserving to be educated.. Microsoft sank the idea by demanding its ($100) piece of flesh for the ancient operating system..

your hardware might become worthless in ten years but ms still think the acient piece of software to run it is still worth the same as the day it was state of the art..  try buying a copy of doss.. he he he

only a pigopoly could get away with such things and ms is one.. i find it hard to have any sympathy for em..

trog


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## Steevo (Jan 27, 2006)

Thermopylae_480 said:
			
		

> My apologies.  I wasn't writing a history essay and did not choose my words as carefully as I should of.  I was specifically refering to the extreme opium addiction of China in the 1800s in order to clarify that the great Chineese philosophers were in all likely hood not addicted to opium. I realize opium as a medicinal form can be traced back to ancient China.  Prior to the British introducing and marketing opium as a form of recreation, I feel opium has had a only a negligible impact on China history. When the Mongolian empire was at its height there may have been some use of opium as a recreational drug, since it was a major source of trade.  I am fully aware of opiums origins and don't appreciate your "laugh" at my statment over a matter of semantics.  I feel it would have been more proper for you to simply disagree and state why.




Sorry Sir.

I was merly refering to the fact that the general populace of the time could.

1) Not afford leisure time to sit, smoke and think about the meaning of life and the balance of things.
2) Not afford the price of the drug.
3) Not write and or their writings are ignored, like many blogs today, but the ramblings of a president that has a lower IQ are published for many to read for centuries.

For a fact few writings of the general populace have survived, but those of the elite or noble class have. Those with money and time to spend on such things were likely not the working-common class. Is a farmer today a wise man? In 500 years who will have heard of me or you, but perhaps Brittney Speers, Paris Hilton, etc.... And so we and our time is judged. :shadedshun


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## Thermopylae_480 (Jan 27, 2006)

Steevo said:
			
		

> For a fact few writings of the general populace have survived, but those of the elite or noble class have. Those with money and time to spend on such things were likely not the working-common class. Is a farmer today a wise man? In 500 years who will have heard of me or you, but perhaps Brittney Speers, Paris Hilton, etc.... And so we and our time is judged. :shadedshun



I like that  .


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## noneed4me2 (Jan 27, 2006)

everything i read or saw a documentary of said Apple stole the whole window GUI from xerox and then Bill gaites snagged it from them when he got close enough to study it. Its great that he was innovative enough to run with it and turn it into the consumer friendly product but it seemed for awhile in that era everyone was trying to rip off everyone else and it seems to me a little poetic justice in that now he's fighting to keep something which he stole himself. I know apple is still hanging in there and with them switching to intel chips only opens up the possibilty of OSX being a better alternative. If i had the money i would go mac just cause they seem to have better issues with security and graphics. The only downside to macs is still their lack of software support. Linux wouldn't fly in my house cause all my kids use the pc and there still a bit to young to use command line, but my version of xp is not the one that came with my oem pc as i will not use a pc loaded down with trial software and AOL. But i have never had a pc that had other than the software that came with it OS wise, 95, 98, ME, 2000 i have used them all but i had no qualms using a copied version of the software with the key from my pc because restore discs are crap and the fact that computers still ship with them just shows how greedy corporations can be. Capitalism isn't perfect and reality is that if they can take your money they will. Hey i love America in that i can even dicuss this regardless of stuff like the Patriot act but when you see how corrupt governments, corporations, and even individuals can be sometimes you gotta look out for yourself and your own and vice/versa sometimes government regulation isn't all bad. For those in California remember that whole energy crisis we had a few years back, and remember how Enron got into trouble for creating false energy shortages? I never got my money back for those outrageous energy price hikes. I am sorry if this is rambling and i will admit that I'm not the most virtuous person but i am still kind enough to stop and help somebody stuck or lend a helping hand when needed, but i still take issue with the concept of paying a high price for something that was stolen in the first place.


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## Steevo (Jan 27, 2006)

Linux has better and more desktops than Windows and Mac.

Go and get a Knoppix Live CD to try it out.

Yes there was a lot of questionable trading of some software technology back in the day. But now realise, Apple not only sells the software at a higher price, but also sells the hardware at a higher price, and not just mice and keyboards. 40% profit margin. And they have a desktop. But people aren't lining up to have multiple copies of their software. Only as Apple didn't make it easy to copy.

More secure and better graphics? No, not really. The same as, any software will have security issues as it is written by people who are falliable.


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## KennyT772 (Jan 27, 2006)

wow i would have to say my uncle hooked me up and there are many ways past activation. ive never registured and corp edition doesnt need activation. yes installing sp1 and sp2 are hell but there are ways. is this bad? yes but is it worth to add another $100 to the comp no. to anyone that needs help on this i know a thing or to for when u change hardware.


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## wazzledoozle (Jan 27, 2006)

Yeah Xerox did the GUI first, then apple copied them then M$ copied apple. It was kind of the next step in computers though, no one really needed to "copy" its a simple concept.


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## trog100 (Jan 27, 2006)

"Capitalism isn't perfect and reality is that if they can take your money they will"

that about sums it up.. 

they also aint overly ethical about how they take it..  which of course on a tit for tat basis is gonna lead to a whole bunch of folks not being overly ethical about how they stop em taking it..

trog


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## noneed4me2 (Jan 28, 2006)

As far as better security it seems windows has to post more updates than mac users and isn't OSX based on the linux code so that was the reason i stated its more secure and hac proof, obviously not 100%, but better than windows. All those neat CG effects in movies are often made with macs, when i watch dvd bonus features I see people using macs for graphics design, again not all, but alot. I understand human falibity but when a corporation forces out competition thats not good for anyone and unbalances the market. As far as macs profit margin they price themselves out of alot of markets in my opinion and if they made machines cheaper i think more people would give them a try. I cannot afford to test out a mac and I love windows ease of use but apple must be doing something right to have stayed in business all these years. I don't know it all, but having experienced first hand at getting ripped of for a few thousand by a "corporation" who then goes and hides behind bankruptcy laws really sucks, especially when their intent was to defraud me of my hard earned money, and when things are paycheck to paycheck it just makes it harder. I don't mind circumventing some copyright protection when i have technically already paid for it when I purchase a computer. Almost all the games my kids play on the home PC are set to run with nocd crack or a backup, just because my 3 and 5 year old boys have destroyed to many retail cd's and we lack the funds to constantly replace these games or software. Hell if you pay for stuff you can be supporting someone else's unscrupulous act against others. If think people should just be more decent to others and respected other peoples right to have a differing opinion.


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## Steevo (Jan 28, 2006)

The issue wasn't and isn't backup. I have a copy of XP Pro and Home on my PC that are backups, and I keep them up to date for builds. The issue is a person who had a choice, and made the wrong one. Simple.

If you don't like Winders, don't buy it. It is as simple as that. I have Linux on two boxes and use them for everything but gaming and photo editing. I heart Debian. More than MS products. It is free, has office built in, KDE, better themes, better browser-Konqurer, I can run three desktops and still have system resources left with a whopping 512RAM and a Cirrus PCI video card. I can use my music in WMA form off my PC, print to my photo printer, use anything I want but my games. Did I mention that it was free? And secure, and stable last reboot was power outage.

Or I know you can get Solaris for free. I haven't tried it though, I got scared by a bum wearing a solaris 8 T-shirt. 

So I fail to see the problem. If you don't agree to the terms, or don't like Windows, Bill Gates, MS, or the like. Don't use it. Simple. KISS Keep It Simple Stupid <-- Not intended to insult anyone.


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## trog100 (Jan 28, 2006)

"The issue wasn't and isn't backup"

the issue is about back ups.. and about every other piece of anti-consumer copy protection crap that the pigopolists will foist upon us..

this aint just a "windows" thing.. its spreads right thru the entire digital rights management system..  

any system that ends up turning everyday joe soap type citizens into a bunch of criminals has to be wrong.. period..

i rather like Oscar Wildes quote.. "The law is for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wisemen".. mind u he did end up in jail.. he he he

trog


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## Steevo (Jan 28, 2006)

You can backup a system. With MS's software or with any number of other programs out there.  Who here hasn't used Alcohol 120 to keep things and games safe and make them better and faster?

This is getting off topic, and the fact still remains that its wrong. Having one copy of XP on more than one machine at one time.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jan 28, 2006)

Steevo said:
			
		

> You can backup a system. With MS's software or with any number of other programs out there.  Who here hasn't used Alcohol 120 to keep things and games safe and make them better and faster?
> 
> This is getting off topic, and the fact still remains that its wrong. Having one copy of XP on more than one machine at one time.



Backing up the windows xp cd isnt hard at all lol  

Infact, of all things, its laughably easy... games however are a pain...


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## trog100 (Jan 28, 2006)

its also wrong to breach the end user agreement however u do it.. i have a sneaky suspicion that making backup copies of a windows cd is in breach of the license agrreement..

i know that if someone steals your oem pc that came with a windows installed on it u no longer have the right to retain ownership of any software that came with it.. he he he..

it also seems the oem people are not allowed to include a full windows install with their machine.. only a "backup" copy that will restore the machine exactly how it came..spyware junk and all..  so when u think u are buying windows as well as the machine u aint really just a machine with windows on it..

sooo if your new machine goes apeshit and u have lost your backup.. the only way u can use the machine u have paid good mony for is to go out and buy another copy of windows..  and to make matter worse.. all the backup cd does is to make your machine exactly the same as when u bought it.. no repair function.. the backup cd is simply a system snapshot.. so if u want to repair your windows install the only way to do it is.. u guessed.. go out and buy a real copy of windows.. he he he

weird this but having entered lots of search strings into google i cannot find any refference to something in that in real life would be simple question.. "can i copy my windows cd".. there is whole army of junk about making backups of installed software.. bugger all about the simple act of copying the cd.. odd..

trog


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## infrared (Jan 28, 2006)

Dippyskoodlez said:
			
		

> Backing up the windows xp cd isnt hard at all lol
> 
> Infact, of all things, its laughably easy... games however are a pain...



Yeah, i've never figured out why it's so easy, yet game companies go to so much effort to copy protect thier cd-roms, and have finally got to something that's reasonably difficult to get past (but never impossible!  )

In fact i think they didn't add copyright protection because each copy of xp is made unique but the activation number thingey. I use the same xp disk on all my pc's and just activate them with different serial numbers.


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## Steevo (Jan 28, 2006)

Or you can use windows backup to create periodic backups to completely restore a machine. You may have as many copies of the installation software as you want, but it may only be installed on one active machine. OEM is OK to move from one PC to another as long as a nessasary piece of hardware is moved from machine to machine *cough*. If you are good you can re-integrate all the addon crap from a manufacturer into a XP CD. The server I built for work contains weekly backups of all of our important machines, and those images can be restored to a new XP install or a blank machine using a boot disk. 

I built all but 5 PC's for my workplace, and have built many home machines. Plus I was on the beta team for XP, was invited to join Vista, and have rebuilt a friends E-machines that died. There is no issue for moving the software, my personal upgrade copy of XP that I have had around for awhile has been moved 4 times from machine to machine, upgrades, systems and trying things. I have made two calls to support to get new ID's and they were no problem when I explaned. I got 2 free copies of Pro OEM for helping, and a gift basket. MS isn't ungratefull or stupid. They are out to make a product that is easy to use and profitable.  Just like some of the people who sell flavors of Linux.


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## noneed4me2 (Jan 29, 2006)

I agree and my intent never was to put more than one copy on different machines but i did use a full version i borrowed and wiped my hard drive clean and partitioned it and installed with the cd key provided by my PC. I figured if anything went wrong i could always use the restore disks, but it wasn't till after i had reformatted my hard drive that i opened the restore discs and saw 3 blank cdr and instructions on burning them from a seperate partition that i had just wiped. If i had problems with my software from first boot i wouldve had to RMA it, if i didn't have any understanding of computers. Now who would have ended up paying for the hassle of returning the thing. All i was saying that its not really violating the spirit of the law if i used it the way i did. But the people who were affected by the activation thing and there own lack of PC knowledge, to them it would seem outrageous to pay for more licenses when they bought it outright. Maybe they should package it better with bold print "THIS IS FOR 1 PC ONLY". As far as disliking or liking Bill, MS, or whoever makes little difference; the fact is Microsoft sought out to be the only real Operating system of choice by there buisness practicess and i don't know about you but last time i was in best buy i didn't see a bunch of operating systems to chooses from, just XP, and since they are pretty much the only game in town, "new and inexperienced" users aren't gonna understand they can still use Linux or buy a mac with OSX (my dad insists macs and PCs are the same) and MS can charge pretty much whatever they want and this is how the market gets skewed.


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## mex (Jan 29, 2006)

If only Bill gates could read this thread!!! I would love to see his face!


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## Steevo (Jan 29, 2006)

Let me say it again. If you have a internet connection, or a friend has one and a burner, you can get Linux. No buying other than the cost of the CD-R.

http://www.linux.org/dist/index.html <-- Go here and find one. Or.
http://www.arklinux.org/ <--Extremely easy to install.
http://www.lycoris.com/ <-- Damn easy install. I have a copy, and a live CD.
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html <-- Run from CD, no install. I use this for a cleaning tool.
http://www.archlinux.org/
http://www.ubuntu.com/

etc...


Choose one. Burn it, install it, quitcherbitchen.


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## mex (Jan 29, 2006)

Would just like to say now that Macs have come into this discussion, that there is no comparison.
I support macs and PC and I am not saying macs are not good. In my opinion 

Macs are aimed at a user that is not interested in all the millions of things you can do on a computer but want a straight forward single operation method for achieving there task. 

With PC's there are no limit's really to where a user can take a PC and that there are so many diversities to almost every tasks it gives the user a lot of freedom compared to the Mac.


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## infrared (Jan 29, 2006)

well said mex.

Also, macs don't usually need high end hardware, since they're not usually doing anything particularly demanding. They have their uses like all things.


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## noneed4me2 (Jan 29, 2006)

i wasn't infering that different versions of Linux is not free or almost free but it isn't marketed the same as windows. Linux tends to require alot more technical knowledge to use where as windows is tons more user friendly. I think Lindows was an attempt to resolve this issue but I haven't heard much about it lately.


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## Steevo (Jan 29, 2006)

Lindows in now Lycoris. 

You are right, Linux isn't marketed at most users. And some people still fear what they don't know, like a windows setup.I had a person see me yesterday about a, one, single, BSOD on 2K. 

For those people that have more money than brains, it doesn't matter, but for those of us with a balance or less money than brains it does or should.

How many people at this site fear the unknown? Evidently many as the number of you who will bitch about XP but still chose to use it as your primary OS. For those of you who are too afraid to try linux, get some balls about you!


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jan 29, 2006)

Steevo said:
			
		

> How many people at this site fear the unknown? Evidently many as the number of you who will bitch about XP but still chose to use it as your primary OS. For those of you who are too afraid to try linux, get some balls about you!




  nice rant.


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## trog100 (Feb 1, 2006)

years ago before a PC could play games i went out and bought an atari st i think it was called..

i bought it on its superior specs compared to its competitor.. an amiga i think that one was called..  back in the floppy disk days this..

anyways a friend of my youngest son soon informed me i had bought the wrong machine.. why.. cos the huge kiddy swopping thing revolved around the amiga not the atari machine.. 

some kids bought a new game.. in fact they all bought the odd new game.. but the real thing was game swopping.. in simple terms piracy.. i soon had to buy a second hand amiga so as i could not be left behind by my kids.. he he he

what decided which machine got bought by what kid.. the availabilty of "swopped" games.. another reason why macs aint that popular.. he he he

one thing that was commonly believed at the time was that the games companies actually intrduced some "nasties" into this "swopping" system.. one particle nasty was called the ripper virus.. once it got into your machine it infected every single floppy that came near it.. 

hellishly difficult to get rid of.. mostly down to the fact of the huge number of infected floppies that got passed around.. he he he

trog


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## noneed4me2 (Feb 1, 2006)

My friend had an Amiga 128 was that the same system as your's trogg? I had the commodore 64 if anybody remembers those when i was young. I remember my mom bringing me these game magazines with assloads of code you had to input manually to play games, which really sucked for a young kid, but man once it was finally inputed right it was a blast but mostly didn't seem worth it once i got some floppya nd cartridges. It just made me envy my friends Atari 2600 even more. It also had a tape(cassette drive) but i never used it. Couldn't figure out how to play my music while playing games; wasn't till later i found out what the hell it was for. Sorry about going off topic but that amiga name just took me back. Wish i still had the thing just to mess around with it and show my kids what early computers were really like. I loved playing the text base HitchHiker's guide to the Galaxy.


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## trog100 (Feb 1, 2006)

my amiga was an A500 i think.. 512k.. thow the first real computer i had was a dragon 32.. that had a tape cassette loader.. ring of darkness and return of the ring were two games i remember.. u hit balrog 55.. balrog hits u 555.. and sidevalve the robot wishes to accompany u.. he he he

hours and hours of gameplay all bunged into 32k of memory.. i think the cpu ran at .9mhz.. makes u wonder..

showing my age here now... he he he

trog


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## ShadowFlare (Feb 2, 2006)

I have nothing against buying new copies of Windows XP for new systems.  It's just part of the cost of the system.  In my opinion, if one does not want to buy another copy of Windows XP for another computer, they should just use what they already have.  If I put together a computer with spare parts, I just install whatever I have besides XP.


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