# Firefox 4 has apparently even more stability problems



## RoutedScripter (Jun 23, 2011)

Win7x64


Apparently, Firefox 4 is aparently crashing without erors, unable to open it after error, etc etc ... it's worse than FF 3.6 in terms of stability, but FF3.6 started crashing like crazy when FF4 came out, is this a purposely done SABOTAGE to get everyone to upgrade to FF5 ?



Is there any note that FF5 fixes that ... i didn't searched for the whole readme yet


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## qubit (Jun 23, 2011)

I agree, FF4 definitely has worse stability than previous versions. I've only had FF5 for a day or so, but it does feel more stable and faster. Anyway, regardless of the situation, it's a no-brainer to upgrade to the latest one.

Tell you what though. I went to www.mozilla.com and I couldn't find a changelog for it.


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## RoutedScripter (Jun 23, 2011)

qubit said:


> I agree, FF4 definitely has worse stability than previous versions. I've only had FF5 for a day or so, but it does feel more stable and faster. Anyway, regardless of the situation, it's a no-brainer to upgrade to the latest one.
> 
> Tell you what though. I went to www.mozilla.com and I couldn't find a changelog for it.



upgrading to the latest one would take time, this is not a sunday install, i don't want to to bits of improvements for the next half a year on FF5 - i do this in single run, (just like installing win7, i do all the tweaks/Customization in the days after, huge lists of settings and registery tweaks ... it's called "being organized" )

I have to check all my addons, tweaks, plugins and Gerasemonkey scripts, if they work with FF5

Then goes all the other customizations , and profile stuff.

Have a lot of bookmarks as well as backups , trying to find a way merging 3 huge bookmark files from 3 different FF version , from 3 different windows installs and one of them was XP ... huh

Plus there probably isn't a 

Since Im using Older themes and UI packs , i didn't liked the 3.5 UI either , so i doubt there's 

I don't know from whihc version it is, but Elad Karako called it "Old School Classic theme for new firefox"


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## qubit (Jun 23, 2011)

Crikey! I guess if you have that level of cusomization, then it's not such a no-brainer, lol.

To help you though, use MozBackup (which I'm sure you know about ). This has to be the best free utility on the planet.  Just backup your current FF to a .pcv file first and every last addon and configuration will be saved with it. When restoring, simply install a vanilla FF4, then run MozBackup and it's back exactly as you last had it! It's very reliable, too.

This way, you can just slap on FF5, see how things work, addons, glitches etc and you can just roll back to FF4 if something major breaks.

Let us know how you get on.


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## pr0n Inspector (Jun 24, 2011)

I delete and rebuild my profile for major updates.


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## slyfox2151 (Jun 24, 2011)

RuskiSnajper said:


> Win7x64
> 
> 
> Apparently, Firefox 4 is aparently crashing without erors, unable to open it after error, etc etc ... it's worse than FF 3.6 in terms of stability, but FF3.6 started crashing like crazy when FF4 came out, is this a purposely done SABOTAGE to get everyone to upgrade to FF5 ?
> ...



i swear you have more software problems then anyone else on this forum 




Not a personal attack or troll


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## entropy13 (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't know the problem of the OP. LOL


Anyway, Firefox 3.6, 4.0, 4.0.1, 5.0 all crash for me too, but I don't think it's through Mozilla sabotaging their own browser. Unless Mozilla now owns Adobe...


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## Jetster (Jun 24, 2011)

I haven't had one issue with FF in over a year and I always update.


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## kid41212003 (Jun 24, 2011)

Jetster said:


> I haven't had one issue with FF in over a year and I always update.



He said something about optimizing his PC (tweaks).

I guess that's the reason why. If nothing is wrong, then why should we touch it?


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## FreedomEclipse (Jun 24, 2011)

Im still on FF 3.6. and OCD prevents me from upgrading because some of my favorite themes & plugins havent even caught up with FF4 yet let alone FF5


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## remixedcat (Jun 24, 2011)

I have some performance stats on my blog about FF5. 

I will say quickly though.... my RAM/Commit usage is on average 20-220MB lower then on FF4. 

It also feels faster as well.

I will also note that the only plugin/ext of mine that doesn't work is the realplayer video downloader one.... lots of people have let realnetworks know so hoping they get on it. it's been 5 days. we shall see. ...


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## claylomax (Jun 24, 2011)

Firefox 4.0 would crash all the time, I stopped using it.


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## Zyon (Jun 24, 2011)

So my decision of sticking to Chrome and to a lesser extent, IE, wasn't a bad one afterall, always wanted to try FF4 until I saw this thread :O


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## remixedcat (Jun 24, 2011)

try FF5


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## pantherx12 (Jun 24, 2011)

RuskiSnajper said:


> upgrading to the latest one would take time, this is not a sunday install, i don't want to to bits of improvements for the next half a year on FF5 - i do this in single run, (just like installing win7, i do all the tweaks/Customization in the days after, huge lists of settings and registery tweaks ... it's called "being organized" )
> 
> I have to check all my addons, tweaks, plugins and Gerasemonkey scripts, if they work with FF5
> 
> ...




Seems to be it isn't FF4 being unstable, but a metric crap ton of customizations 

I never had a single problem with ff 4, not even when it was in alpha and then beta.

Still not having problems with aurora 6.02b .


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## Zyon (Jun 24, 2011)

remixedcat said:


> try FF5


FF5? Or Final Fantasy 5?

That was the first two results that Google returned 

For those who used FF4, did they solve the memory usage problem? I remember using 3.5 and it slowed all my applications just because I played Runescape on it :O


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## Bundy (Jun 24, 2011)

I was almost tempted to try ff until I read this thread. What is so good about this browser that you guys would put up with all this?


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## pantherx12 (Jun 24, 2011)

Bundy said:


> I was almost tempted to try ff until I read this thread. What is so good about this browser that you guys would put up with all this?



Massive customization.

Also I've never had a single problem with it.

Fire fox + macro fox helped Rick Astley get nominated for that mtv award a while back 

( over 1000 votes from me! )


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## Red_Machine (Jun 24, 2011)

Dude, FF5 is out now.  It fixes all of these problems.


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## entropy13 (Jun 24, 2011)

Bundy said:


> I was almost tempted to try ff until I read this thread. What is so good about this browser that you guys would put up with all this?



Customization, and the problem (note the lack of pluralization) that I usually encounter with Firefox isn't restricted to it anyway.


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## remixedcat (Jun 24, 2011)

Zyon said:


> FF5? Or Final Fantasy 5?
> 
> That was the first two results that Google returned
> 
> For those who used FF4, did they solve the memory usage problem? I remember using 3.5 and it slowed all my applications just because I played Runescape on it :O



Firefox 5 LOL 



Bundy said:


> I was almost tempted to try ff until I read this thread. What is so good about this browser that you guys would put up with all this?



the addons and customization. IE will never ever have this level! 



Red_Machine said:


> Dude, FF5 is out now.  It fixes all of these problems.



yup mem usage is a lot lower and so is commit charge usage and page fault delta is much lower as well.  averages are 220MB lower for RAM/179-250MB lower for commit charge and PF delta is 800 points  on low and 3200 on high. compared to FF4 @ 1800 on low and 6500 on high



entropy13 said:


> Customization, and the problem (note the lack of pluralization) that I usually encounter with Firefox isn't restricted to it anyway.



when I get my RealPlayer video downloader back it'll be even better!!!


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## RoutedScripter (Jun 25, 2011)

slyfox2151 said:


> i swear you have more software problems then anyone else on this forum
> 
> 
> 
> ...



these are minor app specific stuff

 the PC optimizuations weren't errors , those were things that i wanted to do , but they all included problems from crappy software which had bugs on it's own.

i don't have BSODs or any stability, hardware , low-level setting kind of problems, the machine's perfect


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## RoutedScripter (Jun 25, 2011)

remixedcat said:


> Firefox 5 LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't use Pagefile so i don't have any faults there,  and it's still crashes twice or 3 times per week (firefox 3 never crashed in months...)

Currently i have 5 windows and 21 tabs opened.
Much of these are forums, google searches, gaming news sites , articles
no active videos, just 2 jutubes - very short non-HD vids that finished playing ...
(but my system is turned on for like 24h now ... so i did a lot yesterday, but left throught the night this what's now)

ANd Firefox 3.6 has now 512 MB firefox.exe and 445 MB plugin-container.exe ... that's 1 GB. And i have 6 GB RAM (total - no virtual)


Note: updated my specs on the left...


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## qubit (Jun 25, 2011)

Ruski, you really should migrate to FF5. The stability is much better (yes, FF4 tended to crash for me too) and the speed is improved too.

It sounds like all the customizations will make it a pain, but it's worth it. FF4 is now a dead product and really should be scrapped.


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## RoutedScripter (Jun 25, 2011)

lolz , let me get all my profiles and organize , and i'll try it ...

but you can't run 2 version separate on same computer ?


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## pantherx12 (Jun 25, 2011)

RuskiSnajper said:


> I don't use Pagefile so i don't have any faults there,  and it's still crashes twice or 3 times per week (firefox 3 never crashed in months...)
> 
> Currently i have 5 windows and 21 tabs opened.
> Much of these are forums, google searches, gaming news sites , articles
> ...



You should have some pagefile, some applications actually require it, think FF might actually be one of those applications.


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## qubit (Jun 25, 2011)

RuskiSnajper said:


> lolz , let me get all my profiles and organize , and i'll try it ...
> *
> but you can't run 2 version separate on same computer ?*



That's a damned good question and I don't know, never tried it. Perhaps try it on a virtual machine or install another Windows on a separate HD or partititon?

The Mozilla help pages might have the answer.

My gut tells me they will clash.


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## pantherx12 (Jun 25, 2011)

You can run betas at the same time as regular builds.

Not sure if it only applies to betas but installing in another location is worth a try.


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## qubit (Jun 25, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> You can run betas at the same time as regular builds.
> 
> Not sure if it only applies to betas *but installing in another location is worth a try.*



Ruski has a highly customized FF4 installation with lots of critical plugins, so I don't recommend this. Trying it on a separate Windows install is the only safe way to test it.

EDIT: MozBackup might actually work just fine for a rollback. Ruski simply downloads the latest FF4 installer and MozBackup and runs it, preserving everything. If FF5 goes tits up, then simply uninstall it, install FF4 and then run MozBackup and applying the backed up configuration. MozBackup is an excellent FF cloning tool. 

Still, depending on how critical everything is, a separate Windows install is still the only way to go.


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## remixedcat (Jun 25, 2011)

and here's how to run multiple versions of firefox at the same time as well:
Install firefox to a new directory like:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox5\firefox.exe

Run the following command from start>run>:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox5\firefox.exe" -p -no-remote

that'll bring up the profile manager

create a new profile for FF5

now, do not click to use the new profile yet. we'll need to leave the profile's folder blank.

navigate to your firefox profile directory:
C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\93fdjdfu.default (or whatever your profile's name is)

copy all files in that directory to the blank new profile dir

now run the command:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox5\firefox.exe" -p -no-remote

now click the new profile and it will copy all settings, and stuff like that and you can now run any amount of versions of FF even at the same time!

I have 3.6,4.0.1, and 5 and I can even run them all at the same time. this is good for devs and people who want to retain thier older versions.


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## RoutedScripter (Jun 26, 2011)

qubit said:


> ruski has a highly customized ff4 installation with lots of critical plugins, so i don't recommend this. Trying it on a separate windows install is the only safe way to test it.
> 
> Edit: Mozbackup might actually work just fine for a rollback. Ruski simply downloads the latest ff4 installer and mozbackup and runs it, preserving everything. If ff5 goes tits up, then simply uninstall it, install ff4 and then run mozbackup and applying the backed up configuration. Mozbackup is an excellent ff cloning tool.
> 
> Still, depending on how critical everything is, a separate windows install is still the only way to go.



hmm .. FF3.6


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## Wile E (Jun 26, 2011)

RuskiSnajper said:


> I don't use Pagefile so i don't have any faults there,  and it's still crashes twice or 3 times per week (firefox 3 never crashed in months...)
> 
> Currently i have 5 windows and 21 tabs opened.
> Much of these are forums, google searches, gaming news sites , articles
> ...


Running with no page file is a mistake. Many programs do not operate properly without one.


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## qubit (Jun 26, 2011)

Wile E said:


> Running with no page file is a mistake. Many programs do not operate properly without one.



Quite. XP used to have a fixed size one by default which can cause low virtual memory warnings (I've seen enough of these at work ) but Vista & 7 by default run it on the Auto setting, which eliminates this.

BTW This is post 4000.  Only another 1000 to go until my custom title.


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## remixedcat (Jun 26, 2011)

I have my peak P/F set at 8GB.... Photoshop needs so much paging file/scratch disk it's mad!!!!


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## RoutedScripter (Jun 26, 2011)

pantherx12 said:


> You should have some pagefile, some applications actually require it, think FF might actually be one of those applications.





Wile E said:


> Running with no page file is a mistake. Many programs do not operate properly without one.



I don't use it for like a year now and everything works fine. I couldn't use it before because i only had 2 GB of RAM (because i thought it was enough, until i got more experienced and realized 90% of game lag/temp freezes/unresponsivness/right-click lag/desktop UI lag/ comes from pagefile), now i have 6 GB.

I don't do photo/video/model/compiling , if i do, it's not a big project, so it doesn't really matter, got enough ram for pretty much everything else.

My biggest problem with eating memory is when i run games while having 10 firefox windows opened with 25 tabs, that eats 1.5 GB , then i receive low-memory warnings from Win7 , but it's a reason i kept that warning enabled, i ignore the recomendations, there's no need to close any programs, because the warning popus up where there's still ~300 MB unused.

Aside from that, i've disabled any other windows naggies and annoyances, but i never ever seen any program-specific "low virtual memory" errors.

The last time i received a "low virtual memory" error was like 3-4 years back when i had a crappy OEM PC with windows XP.


My win7x64 is also tweaked so i have probably about 700 MB of fresh boot RAM requirement, down from 1200 MB vanilla.

I will probably skip/ignore Win8, just like i did Vista.  This tweaking comes with a price, you need time, and im not going to do this every freaking year reinstall.



remixedcat said:


> I have my peak P/F set at 8GB.... Photoshop needs so much paging file/scratch disk it's mad!!!!




Photoshop is extremely demanding , but it's probably because the program is so advanced in terms of features and convenience, so memory has to be sacrifices, because it's all still loaded in memory, all those UNDOs ... and the fact that it's "editing", ofcourse it takes up ram.
But the amateur stuff that i use PS for never really errored on me.

It's not an error, if you run out of memory with pure ram, it's a freeze, instability, and can lead to OS hardlocking in which case you lost all data. That's what i sacrifice for performance  I don't have any life-important data either 


Firefox acts funny when there's low memory, it doesn't make an error , just the whole windows keeps losing UI icons and everything seems dull, images stop displaying in websites ...etc


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## remixedcat (Jun 26, 2011)

most of the time I just run FF and media jukebox and two explorer windows at the same time and I normally have 1.5GB RAM remaining...and when I open PS I have about 500-700MB rem. 

I got 4Gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2800

my current commit is 2.8GB right now with 2 explorer.exe windows, media jukebox with a 100 song playlist, firefox 5.0 with 28 tabs, and one notpad window. 

my current RAM usage is 2.5GB.


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## Widjaja (Jun 26, 2011)

I have Firefox 5 now and I do notice a huge difference in speed.
But now Iam not able to sue one plug in which dpesn't really matter.
I can run it in Internet explorer if a need it.
I felt Firefox 4 was a huge performance drop from the previous version.


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## remixedcat (Jun 26, 2011)

mabye that is why mozilla is ending support for FF4 soon


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## Widjaja (Jun 26, 2011)

remixedcat said:


> mabye that is why mozilla is ending support for FF4 soon



Ah yes I remember the animated things on Firefox 4.
BUt for some reason I only recall them the first time I was using Firefox.


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## Wile E (Jun 26, 2011)

RuskiSnajper said:


> I don't use it for like a year now and everything works fine. I couldn't use it before because i only had 2 GB of RAM (because i thought it was enough, until i got more experienced and realized 90% of game lag/temp freezes/unresponsivness/right-click lag/desktop UI lag/ comes from pagefile), now i have 6 GB.
> 
> I don't do photo/video/model/compiling , if i do, it's not a big project, so it doesn't really matter, got enough ram for pretty much everything else.
> 
> ...


Some programs don't give low virtual memory errors. They just crash. I'm telling you, disabling it is a mistake, regardless of how much ram you have. Some programs need it, even if you still have free memory left. If you have enough ram, you can just create a virtual ram disk, and throw it on that.

And why are you bragging about low memory usage in Windows 7? I'm guessing you disabled Superfetch? If so, that's another mistake. You slowed your PC down doing so. It puts your memory to good use, by caching your most used programs in memory, making them launch immediately. Not using the memory to your advantage is just wasting electricity. If another program needs that memory, Windows dumps the cache and gives it to the program needing it.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Jun 26, 2011)

RuskiSnajper said:


> I will probably skip/ignore Win8, just like i did Vista. This tweaking comes with a price, you need time, and im not going to do this every freaking year reinstall.



Those tweaks take all of 10 minutes to reapply if you just bother to document what you did. For instance I have a list of my 70+ service tweaks and I just remember the rest.


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## RoutedScripter (Aug 14, 2011)

I installed firefox 5 a week ago.

One or 2 days just been transferring profiles and merging stuff , installing all the 

Thankfully found a working CLASSIC theme but it's not the ELADKARAKO version - but it's the best i could get.

Somehow got the bottom status bar to work - but the URL does not show in it (shows above it - and it's auto hide)

Then i got the STOP button extension that makes it separate from the reload button.

Pretty much im back to what i wanted but ... like 85% there ... acceptable but not perfect.

Because the classic theme is not totally correct there is no drop-down button for the CURRENT HISTORY of the Window .... i have to supidly HOLD the Backward button to open that menu -- whihc is still an accepable alternative but not perfect - i would totally stop using firefox if that feature would be disabled.


I think they're trying to make firefox "slim" like chrome, which  is an EPIC FAIL. I HATE these new themes.


That's how it looks now - pretty much very similar - just the color tone of the theme is not the same which is what i got used to in a week thankfully.










AND THEN .... Firefox 6 comes out .. a few days ago







Now i would install that and all exensions could stop working ?

This is a pile of bull shit - if you ask me - stupid versioning.


Yeah it didn't made a difference, extensions for 4.0 all work for 5.0 and probably do for 6.0.

I stopped caring about the version this moment.

What i am using currently is Firefox 4.2 - and i will definitely not upgrade to 4.3 before i finding out what exactly it does.


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## qubit (Aug 14, 2011)

Right clicking that back button still gives you that drop down history. I agree this is a great feature.

What do you mean FF6 "comes out a few days ago"? We're still on v5.


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## RoutedScripter (Aug 14, 2011)

http://www.crazyengineers.com/firefox-6-download-available-before-official-release-on-august-16-791/


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## qubit (Aug 14, 2011)

RuskiSnajper said:


> http://www.crazyengineers.com/firefox-6-download-available-before-official-release-on-august-16-791/



Ok, that's great, the context makes sense now. I see that article was posted just today, too.

I'll hang on for the official release though, like I usually do.


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## Wile E (Aug 15, 2011)

RuskiSnajper said:


> I installed firefox 5 a week ago.
> 
> One or 2 days just been transferring profiles and merging stuff , installing all the
> 
> ...


To get your classic status bar back, install status-4-evar.

I hate the new style as well, but got it mostly back to my normal.


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## RoutedScripter (Aug 15, 2011)

great - now i recalled the userChrome.css mod for the URL preview in status bar

http://www.ghacks.net/2011/03/29/firefox-4-url-trimming-display-full-web-addresses/

finally my firefox is almost back.


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## 95Viper (Aug 15, 2011)

qubit said:


> What do you mean FF6 "comes out a few days ago"? We're still on v5.



How 'bout FF9 release before Christmas?  RapidRelease/Calendar

FF6 release from here:  ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/6.0/win32/en-US/

Aurora build - firefox-7.0a2.en-US.win32.installer.exe from here:  ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/2011/08/2011-08-04-04-20-02-mozilla-aurora/


And, I thought Opera was build crazy.


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## Maban (Aug 15, 2011)

Since we are on the topic of terrible ideas that Mozilla has stolen from Google. FF6 grays all but the domain name in the location bar. It can be horridly hard to read at times. Is there a way to revert it and make it all black text?

Nevermind I fixed it. For those that want to do the same, change browser.urlbar.formatting.enabled to false.


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## dir_d (Aug 15, 2011)

FF7 is nice


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## remixedcat (Aug 16, 2011)

Maban said:


> Since we are on the topic of terrible ideas that Mozilla has stolen from Google. FF6 grays all but the domain name in the location bar. It can be horridly hard to read at times. Is there a way to revert it and make it all black text?
> 
> Nevermind I fixed it. For those that want to do the same, change browser.urlbar.formatting.enabled to false.



actually.... that is taken from IE8. it brings more attention to the domain because of phishing and linkjacking.


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## remixedcat (Aug 16, 2011)

95Viper said:


> How 'bout FF9 release before Christmas?  RapidRelease/Calendar
> 
> FF6 release from here:  ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/6.0/win32/en-US/
> 
> ...



Fleshing out FF12 allready?!@?!?!?!@@@!!~~~????

what's gonna happen in 2 years we are on FF 22? or they would call it two-two or tu-tu. LMAO


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## Red_Machine (Aug 18, 2011)

Apparently Mozilla listened to our complaints about the version number inflation.

They're going to remove the version number entirely.


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## pr0n Inspector (Aug 18, 2011)

Red_Machine said:


> Apparently Mozilla listened to our complaints about the version number inflation.
> 
> They're going to remove the version number entirely.



It's not "going to" it's being considered. If you are so concerned then voice your concerns instead posting on forums the devs will never read.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678775


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## remixedcat (Aug 19, 2011)

why can't they use this format for version numbers?

version 2011.08.19


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## Widjaja (Aug 19, 2011)

Using FireFox 6 now.
To me it is the same as five.


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## Red_Machine (Aug 19, 2011)

remixedcat said:


> why can't they use this format for version numbers?
> 
> version 2011.08.19



They do.  At home the build number appears in my title bar.


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## remixedcat (Aug 19, 2011)

running firefox 9.0 HOURLY!!!!!! grab the tinderbox and build something neat.


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