# Intel owners who have switched to AMD



## freeagent (Nov 19, 2020)

Hi, just curious how you like the AM4 platform? Is it as smooth as running an Intel? Any quirks? Regrets? Would you do anything different? 

I am running a Z77 system and would like to move into something newer. Years ago I told myself I would have to try AMD again when they are beating Intel again. Looks like the day is here. The last time I ran AMD it was a little quirky.. Performance was excellent, but stability.. eh.. not so much. In these crazy days my money is limited, and I don't want to waste it on a system I may end up regretting. My family uses my computer so the stability isn't just for my sanity. If I did end up rolling with AMD, who makes the most stable boards? I dont mind spending a few bucks if its worth it. I probably wouldn't be going with the newest that's out, but maybe something second gen-ish.

Thanks!


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 19, 2020)

I don't see how this is a valid question. Both makers produce dozens of different processors all the way from $50 up to $2800. No one brand leads in every single category so you cannot compare "all" Intel processors to "all" AMD processors based on "anecdotal" experiences with just one or two.

Most stable boards? Again, no such beast. All the major makers produce "stable" boards. All the major makers sell dozens at all price points and feature sets.

The truth of the matter is, both CPU makers produce excellent processors and all the major motherboard makers make reliable boards.

Stability is not based on the board alone. Stability comes from the board, CPU, memory, graphics and power, among other things, working in concert.

What you need to do first and foremost is define the purpose for this computer. The second thing is to set a budget.

Then, pick a processor brand. It truly does not matter. Either can form the foundation for an excellent (and stable) platform. If you like blue, pick blue. If you like red, pick red. If you don't know which you want, toss a coin!

Choose a quality case. I see you like Fractal Design. Great cases. Choose a quality PSU but wait until you have selected everything else first, then determine your power needs and buy accordingly.

Edit comment: fixed typo


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## freeagent (Nov 19, 2020)

Fair enough.


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## jayseearr (Nov 19, 2020)

I like it and it's been smooth as a baby's behind for me. switched over a few months from intel z97 system.
I can't/won't speak for anyone else as far as stability goes, but i have had literally zero issues
as far as best board makers, like bill said there isn't a such thing. just do your homework before you buy and make sure the vrms are good and it's got the features you need. Same thing with the memory, do a little research make sure it pairs with your board and it has good reviews. These are recommendations i would make to someone building ANY system, not just AMD.


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## freeagent (Nov 19, 2020)

Excellent, that's what I like to hear.


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## EarthDog (Nov 19, 2020)

I've only benchmarked and tested between systems... but, both systems have always been 'as peppy' for me. The only time I really noticed a difference just putzing around was anything pre Ryzen vs Intel. Since Ryzen came out, and without benchmarks, you'd be hardpressed to tell a difference. Now, that performance has flipped where AMD is a bit faster, but most users would hardly notice a difference without a counter/result staring them in the face.

It really is a good time to be a PC user/gamer. 

AMD (CPUs) is the best buy and way to go right now. As far as stability goes, it's a new CPU so there are potential growing pains, but it's stable. Get a decent board, QVL memory, quality PSU and it's no different than Intel.


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## Khonjel (Nov 19, 2020)

Switched from ancient i5 2400 and H61 system to Ryzen 5 3600 and B450 last year. No issue. No regrets. As for stable boards I don't think any of them are unstable. And you aren't getting first gen anything. If you get 5000 series CPU you're getting 4th gen Ryzen basically. And if you're getting X570 or B550, you're basically getting the third (and last) chipset on AM4 socket.


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## Vayra86 (Nov 19, 2020)

No complaints from the Ryzen systems I've built and used myself and for others.

For some reason in the house all (two) desktops are still Intel rigs; this 8700K is showing no signs of age and the 3570K downstairs is plenty fast for an HTPC.
We have a Ryzen low-end laptop and its not super fast but as expected. Usable and definitely stable.

No complaints from my end, and since Ryzen 2xxx no compatibility issues encountered. Took a bit of a longer look at RAM at the time, but even that is easier now.


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## TheLostSwede (Nov 19, 2020)

I would put out a few words of caution here. Not to scare you away, but some things you should be aware of.

First of all RAM. XMP might not work and either which way, it's not running at ideal settings for AMD, since it's an Intel standard. This means configuring the RAM manually for best performance.
You're going to want to invest in fast RAM, at least 3600MHz, maybe even 3800 or 4000MHz. 4000MHz isn't guaranteed though and not all 5000-series CPUs will do it. The 3000-series maxes out at around  3800MHz.
This is 1:1 with the Infinity Fabric, as if you end up having the IF running slower than 1:1 with the RAM, you introduce a lot of memory latency, which is a no-no for Ryzen CPUs.
If you have the cash, go for a decent set of Samsung B-die modules.
In case you missed it, two dual rank or four single rank modules gives you a nice little performance boost (this apparently applies to Intel too).

Then we have motherboards, UEFI and AGESA. People here are saying no problems. Well, yes, my system has been rock solid for over a year now, but early on, it was from doing everything that was promised by AMD. Expect some issues with the 5000-series CPUs, depending on the motherboard you get. Some people are having problems with RAM speeds over 3200MHz on some MSI boards for example. There might be some other quirks with the 5000-series as well, I don't have one, but the obvious one is that AMD has already promised improved support for 4000MHz RAM/IF down the road, as they've said they're going to improve the support in future AGESA releases. As such, expect to be updating the UEFI at least a few times. My board is at release 31 at this point and it's less than 18 months since it was launched.

There's no integrated graphics in AMD's CPU, so to get the system going, you need a graphics card. Some motherboards have display outputs, but unless you get an APU, they're non functional. Some people here wasn't aware of it, so I'm just making sure you're aware.

That said, compared to the first gen Ryzen, things are vastly much better and the overall platform has improved a lot.

Beyond that, there's nothing else I can think of that really matters vs. Intel. There are benefits like PCIe 4.0, which might be worth keeping in mind when you get an NVMe drive.
Also, liquid cooling is recommended if you want to get the most out of your CPUs boost speed.

If you're bored and want to compared nitty gritty details of motherboards, there's a huge spreadsheet someone has put together.


			https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/


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## freeagent (Nov 19, 2020)

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. Ok I'm going to try a new AMD system! Scary lol.. I haven't used one since Conroe came out, so I'm a little out of the loop that way. I've seen how they bench, and it looks great, even the not so new stuff. Since there isn't much in the way for overclocking it seems it would come down to the user experience now. I'm pretty sure I don't need to go out and spend loads of cash to get something decent now. I probably wont clock it (much  because old habits die hard.) 

I just want something a little more modern, maybe with a little bling from RGB, but not much.. just a little. It doesn't even have to clock that well, as I'm sure it would destroy my 3770K in just about every possible way.


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## Vayra86 (Nov 19, 2020)

Overclocking these days really is down to how you cool it more than anything else. Things are tweakable, but everything hinges on load temps. (That is, I take it you're going to look at some good performant chip).

Dual stack air or water is no luxury.


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## freeagent (Nov 19, 2020)

Actually it will probably be just a middle of the road system, nothing crazy. Probably not the nicest.. As for cooling, I have a couple of Thermalright coolers, A 212, and an H100 that needs a bit of a top up and a bunch of thick fans. I can run my 3770K semi passively on my Le Grand Macho RT with a 1GHz overclock, I could probably get away with the same on something like a 2600 or something.. maybe.


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## freeagent (Nov 19, 2020)

I know right? I started with Intel slot 1, s370, than AMD socket A, 939, than to 775, 1366, 1155 and soon I guess AM4. 

I will always have some dirty AMD in me 

It just took awhile for me to go back.. besides.. nothing lasts forever. 

Because you know I will have my new AMD for 6 months and then Intel will drop another Conroe because that is my luck.


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## jayseearr (Nov 19, 2020)

overclocking is not same with AMD. There is not as much benefit to be had from it on amd (generally speaking), plus you made it seem as if though a stable family p.c was at the top of your priorities. Overclocks do not equal more stability they equal less stability. My advice would be leave it alone, let it do it's thing on auto boost. unless you are a competitive benchmarker looking to dethrone Kingpin or a hardcore esports gamer looking to squeeze out EVERY LAST fps and get signed to faze that should be more than enough for you


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## freeagent (Nov 19, 2020)

My z77 is pushing a pretty heavy oc and my family uses it daily. Like I said I probably won’t clock it but I’ll see what I can get.. nothing crazy as it would be just air, but am confident I could get a little more than Max boost. Again, at stock I’m sure it would manhandle my 3770K. So no real need to overclock it. I have been overclocking since ~2002-2003 so I will tweak it a bit because it’s just what I do. Can’t leave well enough alone and I have to push buttons.


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## jayseearr (Nov 19, 2020)

That is of course your call to make, I'm just saying...if you're an avid overclocker then sticking with intel wouldn't be a bad play either. At the end of the day I'm just saying there's ALOT of reason to switch over to the AM4 platform from what you got now, but overclocking capabilities isn't one of them. just my opinion.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 19, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> The only time I really noticed a difference just putzing around was anything pre Ryzen vs Intel. Since Ryzen came out, and without benchmarks, you'd be hardpressed to tell a difference. Now, that performance has flipped where AMD is a bit faster, but most users would hardly notice a difference without a counter/result staring them in the face.


This illustrates my point about valid - or rather invalid - comparisons. Both makers make dozens of processors at all sorts of price points and performance levels. 

_Anything_ pre Ryzen?​AMD is a bit faster?​Most users?​
So that scenario could pit a i3 against a Ryzen 9. Or an i9 against a Ryzen 3. Those are invalid scenarios. We must pit a specific AMD against a specific Intel for any comparison to be valid. 

The top of the line does not define the entire brand! 

As for most users and without benchmarks - here's a blanket statement. I bet no user can tell if the computer is AMD or Intel based in a blind test. That is, all the user sees is the keyboard, mouse, and application being run on the monitor. He or she is given no information as to CPU brand or model, # of cores, speeds, amount of RAM, drives, network connection, motherboard, GPU, etc. 

The placebo effect rules.


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## freeagent (Nov 19, 2020)

Okay Mr Bright, you are forgetting that I have not used a modern AMD system, or Intel for that matter. My baseline is on a nearly decade old computer.

Obviously I am not going to pit an i3 vs R9. Cmon now.

It’s all good my man. I’m just saying it seems like you are expecting me to know how these products feel without using them. At least that’s how I am reading into your reply’s. I was asking about user experience rather than overclocking or anything like that. Yes you picked up on keywords like stability. I asked because I saw a prominent member here mention some time ago that he made the switch and ended up going back. I’m sure he isn’t the only one.. and that’s why I mentioned it.


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## Calmmo (Nov 19, 2020)

The numbers speak for them selves but you're looking for an excuse (..??..) to buy Intel regardless.
From a user experience pov you won't notice any difference running your computer with a 5900x or 10900k. (good luck finding them not overpriced)
If you want the best right now buy the one brand, if you don't care stick with the other brand and win loyalty and/or imaginary stability bucks.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 19, 2020)

No, I am 


freeagent said:


> Okay Mr Bright, you are forgetting that I have not used a modern AMD system, or Intel for that matter. My baseline is on a nearly decade old computer.
> 
> Obviously I am not going to pit an i3 vs R9. Cmon now.


Cmon now? Ummm, did you notice I was not really responding directly to you, but to the crowd? I was not suggesting you were going to compare an i3 vs R9. I was pointing out how using blanket statements about the brands to justify purchasing one brand over the other could pit those two against each other. Therefore, not valid arguments. 

It does not matter that you have not used a modern AMD or Intel, or that your baseline is 5, 10 or 20 years old. The fact remains, you cannot, with any "technical" validity, chose AMD or Intel based on just a few CPU models from the entire lineup. To suggest that every model from Brand A is better than every model from Brand B in every task is just wrong. 


freeagent said:


> It’s all good my man. I’m just saying it seems like you are expecting me to know how these products feel without using them.


No! Not at all. What I am saying is what I said in my first post. You need to define the primary purpose for this computer (gaming, graphics design, graphics editing, CAD/CAE, statistic analysis, updating Facebook and watching videos, whatever), set your budget, then pick models the fit your budget, for example Model 123-C from Brand A and compare it to Model XYZ-3 from Brand B. 

And note your first posts were all about stability and running smooth - nothing about which "brand" is faster, or which has the highest Prime95 scores. 

As Calmmo suggests, it is the user experience that matters. All the highest scores gets you in benchmarks is bragging rights. They do not suggest you will enjoy the game any more, or any less. Both AMD and Intel make excellent processors that are reliable and stable. 

Now if you want to talk pickup trucks, then clearly my blue Ford F-150 is better than that red Chevy Silverado in all categories - therefore, all Fords must be better than all Chevys.


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## freeagent (Nov 19, 2020)

Well I may have read into things a little more than I should have.. it happens from time to time sorry about that.. the problem is on my end lol. I'm probably going to go with a second gen Ryzen because I am a little frugal at the moment, and I really don't need anything bleeding edge. My kids can have my Z77 system, it should last, its still quick.. sorta.. but not for any kind of video work other than maybe a game.

Thank you all for your replies, you are awesome just so you know..

So I'm thinking about selling some old systems that I have in boxes.. what do you think they are worth roughly? Looking for an easy sell locally.. but I am not sure of their worth if there is still any left. Everything works minus 1 fan header on each board.. I have a little 92x38 that should never be hot plugged.


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## Bill_Bright (Nov 19, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Well I may have read into things a little more than I should have.. it happens from time to time sorry about that.. the problem is on my end lol.


LOL No problem. Another thing to consider, especially if the budget matters is the graphics solution. Depending on the task, often money is better spent (in terms of overall performance) on a better graphics solution (and RAM and a SSD) than on the CPU itself. 

As far as your old electronics, you will never get what you think it is worth, unless you really find a sucker. I ended up cleaning out my basement storeroom by taking all my old electronics to a local electronics recycling center. They paid me $80 for the aluminum and steel junk value, and for the precious metals in the CPUs and RAM. Most importantly, it all was properly recovered and recycled to keep the hazardous waste out of landfills.


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## freeagent (Nov 19, 2020)

I should have mentioned that. I have several cases.. I have my Define R4, I have a Meshify C, and I have a Define Mini C. So I can use any of those minus the latter unless I get an matx board.. For my cooler I have Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT, or True Spirit 140 Power that I will be using, not sure which one yet.. I am going to keep using my CM M2 850 PSU, and my 980 Classified for now. My kids would have a 970 FTW to use and a 650w PSU.


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## NoJuan999 (Nov 19, 2020)

A 2600 on a decent mid level B450 or X470 motherboard with either of those coolers should work very well for you.
And as for OCing you should be able to OC a 2600 to 3.9 - 4 GHz (possibly even 4.1 GHz) with either of those coolers and good case airflow.
The Meshify C you have is a good case for airflow.
Just be sure to get 2933-3200 RAM that is compatible with the Motherboard and CPU you end up choosing.
Ryzen CPU's like fast RAM.

I have a 2600 (OC'd to 4 GHz) on an Asus ROG Strix B450-F using an Arctic 33 eSports cooler.
Look at my Signature for the full specs of my 2600 rig.

PS
The 2600 rig is my First ever AMD rig and I am Very happy with it and even Happier with my newer 3700x rig.


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## seth1911 (Nov 19, 2020)

The IPC of
Zen 1 is under Haswell
Zen + on pair with Haswell
Zen 2 is 6% over Comet Lake

If a Consumer dont need 12 or 16 Cores theres no reason to buy any AMD.

Zen 3 maybe, but 300$ for a 6 Core in 2020  


My latest AMD are Phenom x6 1055T and A10 6800K


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## FinneousPJ (Nov 19, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Hi, just curious how you like the AM4 platform? Is it as smooth as running an Intel? Any quirks? Regrets? Would you do anything different?
> 
> I am running a Z77 system and would like to move into something newer. Years ago I told myself I would have to try AMD again when they are beating Intel again. Looks like the day is here. The last time I ran AMD it was a little quirky.. Performance was excellent, but stability.. eh.. not so much. In these crazy days my money is limited, and I don't want to waste it on a system I may end up regretting. My family uses my computer so the stability isn't just for my sanity. If I did end up rolling with AMD, who makes the most stable boards? I dont mind spending a few bucks if its worth it. I probably wouldn't be going with the newest that's out, but maybe something second gen-ish.
> 
> Thanks!


I switched from X58 i7 920 to AMD R7 1700 to R5 5600X. I'm very happy with it.

If money is tight I wouldn't recommend upgrading right now. What is lacking in your current level of performance?


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## Sithaer (Nov 19, 2020)

Switched from a i 3-4160 in 2018 may after using the i 3 for 3 years or so.

I mainly had AMD systems tho, only ever had that i 3 and a very old celeron but that wasn't my own system so it doesn't really count.

With this Zen 1 + B350 / 1600x system I only had XMP issues with a certain earlier BIOS version that gave me random BSOD  but after they fixed that its rock solid ever since. _'I'm not ocing anything'_

Now that I think of it this system is more stable now than the i 3 system I had, for some reason that system had a hang up/freeze issue completely randomly and nothing really fixed it.


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## Frick (Nov 19, 2020)

NoJuan999 said:


> A 2600 on a decent mid level B450 or X470 motherboard with either of those coolers should work very well for you.
> And as for OCing you should be able to OC a 2600 to 3.9 - 4 GHz (possibly even 4.1 GHz) with either of those coolers and good case airflow.
> The Meshify C you have is a good case for airflow.
> Just be sure to get 2933-3200 RAM that is compatible with the Motherboard and CPU you end up choosing.
> ...



You don't even need a mid tier motherboard, and overclocking is sorta pointless, just turn the boost on and let it handle itself. I just bought the cheapest B450 motherboard I could find and it's a-ok. Granted I was gifted the 2600x, but still... Had a Haswell i3 prior to that. I did get a Ryzen 5 1400 and even that was a nice boost compared to the i3, at least in what I did.


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## thesmokingman (Nov 19, 2020)

I went from an oc'd 7820x to a 3900x. I don't miss the 7820x at all.


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## sam_86314 (Nov 19, 2020)

Went from an i7-2600K to an R5 2600X. No regrets at all. It performs noticeably better in all workloads.

Hoping to snag a cheap 3900X in the near future.


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## Mats (Nov 19, 2020)

freeagent said:


> For my cooler I have Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT, or True Spirit 140 Power that I will be using, not sure which one yet..


IIRC, those models lacked AM4 support back in the day, and the parts needed from TR were hard to find.
It probably depends on when you bought them, as I believe newer ones supports AM4. Probably not impossible to solve, but just a heads up.
Edit: Found this link, dunno if still valid: http://thermalright.com/2017/02/21/thermalright-amd-am4-cpu-mount-upgrade/

As a side note, if you happen to have one of the TR mounting brackets with an adjustable angle, you should know that the diagonal of the 115x/1200 mounting holes is *almost* the same as for AM4. The holes aren't very tight to begin with, it should work with a different back plate.

1151 = 106.07 mm
AM4 = 104.96 mm


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## NoJuan999 (Nov 19, 2020)

Frick said:


> You don't even need a mid tier motherboard, and overclocking is sorta pointless, just turn the boost on and let it handle itself. I just bought the cheapest B450 motherboard I could find and it's a-ok. Granted I was gifted the 2600x, but still... Had a Haswell i3 prior to that. I did get a Ryzen 5 1400 and even that was a nice boost compared to the i3, at least in what I did.


OCing a 2600 was definitely NOT pointless for me.
My OC'd 2600 outperforms a stock 2600x.








						AMD Ryzen 5 2600 @ 4018.3 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
					

[fc46tt] Validated Dump by DESKTOP-SCDEG4D (2019-08-15 18:46:01) - MB: Asus ROG STRIX B450-F GAMING - RAM: 16384 MB




					valid.x86.fr
				



4 GHz all core OC made a Big difference for me when encoding videos.

On my 3700x that is true though, OCing is pretty pointless IMO.


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## Stewen1967 (Nov 19, 2020)

If you will allow me to tell you my own opinion.
I started my first IBM AT 286 20mhz.
There was no such thing that OC had only minimal bios to adjust for  better performance. 386, 486, Intel amd platform was all kinds.
Then the OC craze came to me 10 years ago.
My conclusion is that no matter what platform, it is stable only at factory values. I can gain more and stable operation with operating system optimization than with an OC processor or RAM.
What’s more, technology is still there today that OC is pre-installed and embedded in motherboards, overcrowded processors and RAMs by default. I don't have to deal with that either.
My today processor starts at 3800MHz and goes up to 5100Mhz Factory settings.. AMD is also a similar platform. Which one is better?
None of them.


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## Toss (Nov 19, 2020)

I switched from Intel.
0 Crashes so far in 1 week. Intel was crashing in sony vegas constantly.

Also opening videos full screen, in youtube 4k is faster somehow.


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## Mats (Nov 19, 2020)

Like a certain Steve of youtube fame said, comparing new brand X with old brand Y doesn't really tell us much. 
Not a direct quote, and not directed at anyone specific..


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## R-T-B (Nov 20, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> The top of the line does not define the entire brand



But you can grade the overarching core design on IPC, which is what he was referring to, pretty certainly.



seth1911 said:


> Zen 1 is under Haswell



As a former Zen 1 owner, it is more like equal to Haswell on IPC alone.


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## seth1911 (Nov 20, 2020)

nope it isnt  

If im doing cinebench on same clocks on 1 core Haswell is a few % faster than Zen1, only Zen+ is similar


Or a funnyer thing, benchmark points over a few benchmarks, booth are quad cores:
Ryzen 3 1200 @ 3.4 GHz scores 1534
I5 4590s @ 2.8 GHz scores 1512


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## PooPipeBoy (Nov 20, 2020)

seth1911 said:


> Zen 3 maybe, but 300$ for a 6 Core in 2020



Oh come off it. Core count is only half of the story, if that. We're talking about a 6-core that can compete with the 8-cores from the previous generation in multi-threaded work and destroys in gaming with the fastest graphics card you can get. Everyone bitches and whines about the extra $50 like they're having to snip off their left nut with scissors, meanwhile I paid for mine with no complaints and I don't even have a steady income.


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## seth1911 (Nov 20, 2020)

Yeah a 5600X for 300$ is about 25% faster than a 10400F for 150$ 
But for 300$ u get a 10700F which is a 8 Core/ 16 Thread CPU


Yeah in 2020 u get an AMD 6 Core / 12 Thread CPU for the same price like a 8 Core / 16 thread CPU from  Intel (300$) 
Ill never thouht AMD wanna go higher than Intel, but they did it, and the Fanbase is cherring them


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## Mussels (Nov 20, 2020)

I sold my last intel hardware yesterday, after getting my first zen 3 chip.


Oh lordy is it ahead of intel... well, of anything really.

Positives:
Single threaded is amazing (i'm getting 5,050Mhz boost)
Multi threaded is world class
Low power consumption/total heat output

Negatives:
Heat density. Doesn't matter how big your cooler, it's gunna run 80C+ in heavy multi threaded loads, but they are designed for this (its the boost mechanism)
Currently only really usable on boards with BIOS flashback, unless you have a zen 2 CPU and feel like using a BETA BIOS on a B450 or X470


If they do a refresh and find a way to get the heat out of the chips easier (improved solder TIM?) these things will get even better.


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## PooPipeBoy (Nov 20, 2020)

Mussels said:


> I sold my last intel hardware yesterday, after getting my first zen 3 chip.
> 
> Oh lordy is it ahead of intel... well, of anything really.
> 
> ...



5GHz with the 5800X? Good griefus.

FYI on the multi-threaded thermals, I found that disabling PBO brings down the all-core frequency by a few hundred MHz but also reduces temps by ~12C on my 5600X. Mine was also pegged at 80C when it was enabled. The single-core performance remains unaffected from what I've seen with my testing. Could be worthwhile for long stints of rendering.


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## Atomic77 (Nov 20, 2020)

My Desktop was Intel i5 my laptop is Ryzen 5. I think the Ryzen is better.


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## Hachi_Roku256563 (Nov 20, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> There's no integrated graphics in AMD's CPU, so to get the system going, you need a graphics car


Uhhhhh athlon 300ge 3200g 3400g?


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## Khonjel (Nov 20, 2020)

seth1911 said:


> Yeah a 5600X for 300$ is about 25% faster than a 10400F for 150$
> But for 300$ u get a 10700F which is a 8 Core/ 16 Thread CPU
> 
> 
> ...


Ughhh I thought when people on reddit downvoted others for excessive emojis it was childish. But jesus christ I wanna puke on a cat after reading your posts.

As for 5600X, there's been rumors for weeks now that non-X will release sometime later at $220.

And funny how Intel fans flipped in the matter of two years. Previously it was "Intel is still better at gaming" and now it's "Intel is better value"? Lol.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 20, 2020)

Khonjel said:


> Ughhh I thought when people on reddit downvoted others for excessive emojis it was childish. But jesus christ I wanna puke on a cat after reading your posts.
> 
> As for 5600X, there's been rumors for weeks now that non-X will release sometime later at $220.
> 
> And funny how Intel fans flipped in the matter of two years. Previously it was "Intel is still better at gaming" and now it's "Intel is better value"? Lol.



Lol. It's a cat and mouse game. 

Fast/er really depends on how you measure things. 
An FX processor was faster than Intels at unzipping for example (in that time period)

AMD finally beats Intel's performance. Finally passed 8700K by a little bit while Zen2 just still wasn't there yet.
Honestly, happy to see AMD with a spectacular product as always, but it's hyped up and late the the game. 

Intel's chips got cheaper and AMD's got more expensive. The scale is balancing out finallly.


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## AsRock (Nov 20, 2020)

If i was building another system it be another AMD build for sure, even more so now the new cpu's have been released.


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## Khonjel (Nov 20, 2020)

AsRock said:


> If i was building another system it be another AMD build for sure, even more so now the new cpu's have been released.


btw what the hell is a "ASRock AM4 Pro 4" motherboard? Is it B350? B450? B550? X370? X470? X570?


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## dgianstefani (Nov 20, 2020)

I have a 5950x system that hits 5.25ghz boost with smt disabled in a 13L case. AMD is a no brainer right now.


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## thesmokingman (Nov 20, 2020)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Lol. It's a cat and mouse game.
> 
> Fast/er really depends on how you measure things.
> An FX processor was faster than Intels at unzipping for example (in that time period)
> ...



That reads like it pained you to write that.


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## TheLostSwede (Nov 20, 2020)

Isaac` said:


> Uhhhhh athlon 300ge 3200g 3400g?


Really? Those are still APUs and they're Athlons, not Ryzen   
Was the OP asking about Athlons?


----------



## biffzinker (Nov 20, 2020)

Mussels said:


> If they do a refresh and find a way to get the heat out of the chips easier (improved solder TIM?) these things will get even better.


The smaller the process tech (7nm to 5nm?) is the harder it will be to remove the concentrated heat from a eight cores die irregardless of the solder tim used.


----------



## birdie (Nov 20, 2020)

One thing which I've noticed is that my PC idle power consumption has increased vs. my previous Intel build. That's caused by the fact that Ryzen 3000/5000 CPUs have an IO chip which never really idles and consumes from 10 up to 27W. In my case it's around 17W.

Another thing which I'm not a fan of, is the fact that Ryzen 3000-5000 CPUs "idle" at much higher temps vs. previous Intel CPUs. To eliminate the issue I've disabled boost on my Ryzen 3700X CPU and by doing that I've limited the CPU frequency to 3600MHz and lowered the idle temps from the 45-57C range to the 33-45C range.

Other than that, everything has been smooth.


----------



## Frick (Nov 20, 2020)

birdie said:


> Another thing which I'm not a fan of, is the fact that Ryzen 3000-5000 CPUs "idle" at much higher temps vs. previous Intel CPUs. To eliminate the issue I've disabled boost on my Ryzen 3700X CPU and by doing that I've limited the CPU frequency to 3600MHz and lowered the idle temps from the 45-57C range to the 33-45C range.



Does this have an effect on power consumption? And what do you mean with "idle"?


----------



## birdie (Nov 20, 2020)

Frick said:


> Does this have an effect on power consumption? And what do you mean with "idle"?



By "idle" I mean e.g. browsing light web sites (I'm using NoScript + uBlock Origin, which means I don't see banners and pages are generally static, i.e. no animations, WebGL or anything like that), working with text documents and using a file explorer. So, the PC is not 100% idle but the load is generally very very low.

Of course, power consumption is a _whole lot_ lower.

I do enable boost when I have to run long-running applications which create a decent load, e.g. video re/encoding, compression, compilation, etc. This way I'm OK with my CPU consuming as much power as it really needs to because the CPU temperature is steady and high (60-65C).


----------



## Frick (Nov 20, 2020)

birdie said:


> By "idle" I mean e.g. browsing light web sites (I'm using NoScript + uBlock Origin, which means I don't see banners and pages are generally static, i.e. no animations, WebGL or anything like that), working with text documents and using a file explorer. So, the PC is not 100% idle but the load is generally very very low.
> 
> Of course, power consumption is a _whole lot_ lower.



How much lower compared to when boost is on?


----------



## birdie (Nov 20, 2020)

Frick said:


> How much lower compared to when boost is on?



A quick and dirty test:

7z b with boost disabled: ~53W (~4.5W per core)
7z b with boost enabled: ~90W (~9W per core)

Of course you're losing quite a lot of performance.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 20, 2020)

Awesome! Hey you guys thanks for sharing your experiences, this is the kind of stuff I was hoping to see. I saw Intel dropped their prices.. impressive. I also saw AMD raised their prices.. dammit! Lol. I’m going to try an AMD build. I don’t have anything against Intel, they treated really well for the most part. So my old crap is worthless eh? Should I try to get a hundred bucks for that complete x58 setup and maybe 50 for the x48? Seems a bit low but then again it’s pretty old stuff.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 20, 2020)

Definetly get the most you can for your old stuff  but try to at the very least go ryzen 3000 or wait for cheaper ryzen 5000 stuff like the rumored 5600 non X it really is a very large jump over Ryzen + and especially Ryzen 1st gen. I did a lot of 1st/+/2nd gen builds and have to say I'm by far the most impressed with the 3000 series so much so that I'm replacing my 9900k with a 5950X when I can get one.... 

I really like my 3900X system but my wife has mostly claimed it as her own.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 20, 2020)

Wow that really says a lot. Ok it’s a bit more than I wanted to spend but I’m worth it and honestly I would rather spend the money on new stock rather than new old stock. Yay new toys


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 20, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:
			
		

> The top of the line does not define the entire brand





R-T-B said:


> But you can grade the overarching core design on IPC, which is what he was referring to, pretty certainly.


No! Come on! Let's be realistic here, okay? You are suggesting the design of the maker's upper-most flagship processor is the same design used all the way down the line to their lowest level, entry models. That's not reality. And grading any product on one spec alone is just as unrealistic. 

Is the fastest car in the world the best car in the world? What if the buyer is looking for the "smoothest" ride? The most quiet interior? The best gas mileage? 

And is the best CPU for playing Warhammer 2 the best CPU for playing Far Cry 5? What about for AutoCAD? Or Maya? Or Ableton Live 10?

The $100 Ryzen 3 3200G 4-Core 65W is nothing like the $800 Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core 105W processor other than the fact they both branded AMD and use the AM4 socket (comparison). And you certainly cannot compare the R3 3200G with a $2000 i9-9880XE 18-Core 165W processor. 

In terms of efficiency and power consumption at idle, is that really a factor in buying decisions? I mean how many hours and hours on end each day is the computer sitting at idle, being non-productive and wasting energy?

Set aside the facts the CPU is but one component sucking power and that often the graphics solution is the most power hungry devices in our systems. If my system is idle, that means I'm sitting there doing nothing too. At that point my two lit-up monitors are pulling more power than my idle processor. And if my computer is idle, in 15 minutes those monitors are going to sleep and 5 minutes later, my computer is goes to sleep too. 

I'm using my computer ~5 to 6 hours each day. And when I am using my computer, very little of that time, in comparison, is my computer sitting there idling and doing nothing. It is minutes versus hours. Is that really different from how most people use their computers? I'm betting not. 

The tree-hugger side of me does worry about energy consumption. I'm not an extremist in this matter, but I do believe in the science; global warming is real and we need to do our parts to heal and protect the Earth for future generations. So I am concerned about power consumption and energy efficiency (and of course, heat) - but when my computer is being tasked, not at idle. For this reason, I go for the gold - 80 PLUS Gold, that is.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 20, 2020)

Big shocker the new AMD CPUs are sold out. The last time I looked at 3rd gen zen prices were a bit lower. Intel has some decent deals. I’ll hold my horses for a bit. I’ve got my spare parts for sale locally so maybe I’ll sell something. I’ve got the x58 with CPU and ram listed for 250 and the X48 listed with cpu and ram for 150, obo on everything of course. Also that is in beaver bucks so here’s hoping  

It’s really easy to blow through a budget so I’ll do some more reading.


----------



## Glaceon (Nov 20, 2020)

I prefer my Ryzen 9 3900X build to my i7-8700 build by a TON. Quieter, draws less overall power and fantastic performance. Waiting on my quad 3600 16-16-16-36 kit now.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 20, 2020)

Glaceon said:


> I prefer my Ryzen 9 3900X build to my i7-8700 build by a TON. Quieter, draws less overall power and fantastic performance.


Oh? And each has a comparable motherboard, the exact same CPU cooler, the exact same case and the exact same case cooling setup with the exact same graphics solution, RAM and power supply, right? If not, then your statement is just anecdotal at best, meaningless more likely. It certainly does not suggest all AMD are better (whatever that means) than Intels. It just means you like your AMD better. Nothing wrong with that, its just meaningless for this discussion.


----------



## Glaceon (Nov 20, 2020)

... that's exactly what I mean

I like this build better

I'm not here to explain why AMD is better than Intel or vice versa

I answered the question of the thread. Sometimes I feel like not even visiting this forum at this point

I also did not use the exact same CPU cooler and RAM. Only things that were transferred between builds were GPU and PSU. The others are irrelevant


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 20, 2020)

Glaceon said:


> I prefer my Ryzen 9 3900X build to my i7-8700 build by a TON. Quieter, draws less overall power and fantastic performance. Waiting on my quad 3600 16-16-16-36 kit now.


Sorry for the OT, but no idea how your new system draws less power. A 3900x uses a lot more power than a locked 8700... even an unlocked 8700K... by quite a fair margin too.








						AMD Ryzen 9 3900X Review
					

The flagship of AMD's new Ryzen 3000 lineup is the Ryzen 9 3900X, which is a 12-core, 24-thread monster. Never before have we seen such power on a desktop platform. Priced at $500, this processor is very strong competition for Intel's Core i9-9900, which only has eight cores.




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Glaceon (Nov 20, 2020)

Ran the same Prime95 test on both builds, 3900X drew 120W while my 8700 rated at """65W""" drew 130W+

But I am out of this thread as I'd like to preserve my sanity, answered the title question, moving on


----------



## Bill_Bright (Nov 20, 2020)

Glaceon said:


> I answered the question of the thread. Sometimes I feel like not even visiting this forum at this point


I understand your feeling and I apologize if my comment was upsetting. But the question of the thread is invalid because it is WAY WAY to general. The question of the thread was about the "smoothness" and "stability" of AMD vs Intel - as in the entire brand of AMDs vs Intel. That's not a valid comparison because each maker produces many processors and frankly all are smooth and stable when properly used in compatible setups. Plus stability and smoothness has as much to do with the motherboard, RAM, graphics, power, cooling and more as it does with the CPU itself.


----------



## INSTG8R (Nov 20, 2020)

Went from 4790K to 3700X saw some minor FPS losses in my benches but overall pleased with performance the BIOS feels very old school compared to Intel as far as settings etc.I built it for Zen3 anyway so this setup is just a placeholder.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 20, 2020)

Glaceon said:


> Ran the same Prime95 test on both builds, 3900X drew 120W while my 8700 rated at """65W""" drew 130W+
> 
> But I am out of this thread as I'd like to preserve my sanity, answered the title question, moving on


Is that at the wall or software?


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 20, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Is that at the wall or software?



Did you not know that Intel cpus and their advertised tdp is a joke?


----------



## NoJuan999 (Nov 20, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> I understand your feeling and I apologize if my comment was upsetting. But the question of the thread is invalid because it is WAY WAY to general. The question of the thread was about the "smoothness" and "stability" of AMD vs Intel - as in the entire brand of AMDs vs Intel. That's not a valid comparison because each maker produces many processors and frankly all are smooth and stable when properly used in compatible setups. Plus stability and smoothness has as much to do with the motherboard, RAM, graphics, power, cooling and more as it does with the CPU itself.


His post was absolutely valid, the OP just asked for personal experiences and opinions:


freeagent said:


> Hi, just curious how you like the AM4 platform? Is it as smooth as running an Intel? Any quirks? Regrets? Would you do anything different?


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 20, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Is that at the wall or software?


I'd imagine actual. When I've reviewed B550/X570 using a 3900x, using AIDA64 stress test (CPU/FPU/Cache), Those systems peaked around 210W at the wall.




thesmokingman said:


> Did you not know that Intel cpus and their advertised tdp is a joke?


Indeed.

You may want to read my link though. There isn't a situation that W1z tests with (including a stress test) where the 95W 8700K (other dude has a locked 65W 8700) uses more power. It could depend on the test? Who knows... but gaming and other real world, it doesn't seem to.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 20, 2020)

Glaceon said:


> Ran the same Prime95 test on both builds, 3900X drew 120W while my 8700 rated at """65W""" drew 130W+
> 
> But I am out of this thread as I'd like to preserve my sanity, answered the title question, moving on



IIRC Intel calculates their TDP from the base clock. Once boost is enabled you're going to see more power draw than you expect. It's so utterly dumb.



birdie said:


> One thing which I've noticed is that my PC idle power consumption has increased vs. my previous Intel build. That's caused by the fact that Ryzen 3000/5000 CPUs have an IO chip which never really idles and consumes from 10 up to 27W. In my case it's around 17W.
> 
> Another thing which I'm not a fan of, is the fact that Ryzen 3000-5000 CPUs "idle" at much higher temps vs. previous Intel CPUs. To eliminate the issue I've disabled boost on my Ryzen 3700X CPU and by doing that I've limited the CPU frequency to 3600MHz and lowered the idle temps from the 45-57C range to the 33-45C range.
> 
> Other than that, everything has been smooth.



Ryzen 3000 also consumes more power at idle when the memory frequency is 3600MHz or higher. Details in my signature.

Are you just disabling PBO? I've tried disabling it myself but I still get all-core of 4.0GHz and single core boosting to 4.6GHz. Which is fine by me, but it's not being limited to base clock like others are saying.


----------



## birdie (Nov 20, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Are you just disabling PBO? I've tried disabling it myself but I still get all-core of 4.0GHz and single core boosting to 4.6GHz. Which is fine by me, but it's not being limited to base clock like others are saying.



I've never enabled any OC'ing including PBO ;-) The CPU cost me too much to play any "Void my warranty" games.

As to disabling boost: you go to Power Options, choose your current power plan and limit your Processor power management->Maximum Processor State to 99%. That effectively disables Boost (i.e. frequencies above 3600MHz). No BIOS shenanigans are required.


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 20, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> You are suggesting the design of the maker's upper-most flagship processor is the same design used all the way down the line to their lowest level, entry models.



The base core design has been that way across the product stack for years bill.  They don't make different core architectures for different pricepoints, they simply downclock or disable this or that.  It's
 all the same uarch.  But they sometimes (rarely) reuse last gen in the current product stack as a budget product.  Either way my point applies.



Bill_Bright said:


> And grading any product on one spec alone is just as unrealistic.



IPC is used as a standard for this for a reason.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 21, 2020)

Even my 3770K fully loaded pulls a surprising amount at the wall when it’s clocked.

So.. I may have sold my X58.. the newest Ryzen is not in the cards for me right now.. what do you think of the 3600XT? It’s 20 bucks more than the 3600X, which is the same price as 3600. A 2600 is 199..


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## EarthDog (Nov 21, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Even my 3770K fully loaded pulls a surprising amount at the wall when it’s clocked.
> 
> So.. I may have sold my X58.. the newest Ryzen is not in the cards for me right now.. what do you think of the 3600XT? It’s 20 bucks more than the 3600X, which is the same price as 3600. A 2600 is 199..


3600xt is a solid choice. Its a bit faster than the 3600 and for $20, whu not. 



R-T-B said:


> The base core design has been that way across the product stack for years bill.  They don't make different core architectures for different pricepoints, they simply downclock or disable this or that.  It's
> all the same uarch.  But they sometimes (rarely) reuse last gen in the current product stack as a budget product.  Either way my point applies.
> 
> 
> ...


I looked at that post (have to click to see it  ) in response to mine and see typical carrying on after... It isnt even worth a reply man. Dude just... yeah. Got better things to do than split hairs with that character, lol.




birdie said:


> I've never enabled any OC'ing including PBO ;-) The CPU cost me too much to play any "Void my warranty" games.


AFAIK, PBO doesn't void your warranty. For Intel, you can pay for an additional warranty that covers overclocking.


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## freeagent (Nov 21, 2020)

I was reading that AMD CPUs can still be pulled from the socket when removing the cooler, is that true? Its happened to me in the past, got some neat pin spiral patterns after. Was most unimpressive.


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## EarthDog (Nov 21, 2020)

freeagent said:


> I was reading that AMD CPUs can still be pulled from the socket when removing the cooler, is that true? Its happened to me in the past, got some neat pin spiral patterns after. Was most unimpressive.


Yes. The socket hasn't changed. Twist and pull... do it warm.


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## freeagent (Nov 21, 2020)

That sucks. I did have a Brisbane a few years ago and warmed it up with some p95 and twisted the cooler off and the CPU still came with it. This puts a bit of a damper on my plans.

Im still looking at the 3600XT  I might just go ahead and pull the trigger. Its still going to be better than my 3770K.


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## EarthDog (Nov 21, 2020)

It shouldn't put a damper on your plans. Its not like you take off the cooler daily/weekly/monthly.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 21, 2020)

Just don't use the amd stock paste and you'll be fine that shit might as well be glue.


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## freeagent (Nov 21, 2020)

Exactly. Ok! I was looking at Intel stuff, but I really am not interested in more of the same. 

Ok so here is where I'm at..

2600 for 199, 2600X for 229, 2700X for 289, 3600 for 309, 3600X for 309, and 3600XT for 329. I don't really want to spend more on a CPU because I'm trying to squeeze bang for the buck..


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 21, 2020)

Get the best you can/want to afford. Don't make it harder than it is.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 21, 2020)

I know I'm terrible for that.


----------



## frituq (Nov 21, 2020)

Switched from a venerable i5-4690K to a 3300X (4.2Ghz@1.04v) and the price/performance is really good, even so when I transformed my NAS to a gaming rig and I did not see any bottlenecking issue while playing 4k@60 on my TV


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 21, 2020)

I would go 3600X or 3600XT with a nice budget ish B550 board like the msi a pro..... Even at it's budget ish price I'd skip Ryzen plus and at least here in the states the better B450 board's aren't much cheaper but if you can get a b450 mortar max or Tomahawk max for substantially cheaper go for it.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 21, 2020)

Thanks man, I appreciate it. I’m going to go with the XT I think. After tax it’s 375 so a little more than I want to spend but I like the clocks and don’t really need more than 6 cores.


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 21, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> It isnt even worth a reply man. Dude just... yeah.



Call me a glutton for punishment but I don't use ignore.


----------



## Frick (Nov 21, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> Call me a glutton for punishment but I don't use ignore.



It's the only way to live man.


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## R-T-B (Nov 21, 2020)

Frick said:


> It's the only way to live man.



Sometimes it feels like brushing with a steel fiber toothbrush, but agreed.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (Nov 21, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Hi, just curious how you like the AM4 platform? Is it as smooth as running an Intel? Any quirks? Regrets? Would you do anything different?
> 
> I am running a Z77 system and would like to move into something newer. Years ago I told myself I would have to try AMD again when they are beating Intel again. Looks like the day is here. The last time I ran AMD it was a little quirky.. Performance was excellent, but stability.. eh.. not so much. In these crazy days my money is limited, and I don't want to waste it on a system I may end up regretting. My family uses my computer so the stability isn't just for my sanity. If I did end up rolling with AMD, who makes the most stable boards? I dont mind spending a few bucks if its worth it. I probably wouldn't be going with the newest that's out, but maybe something second gen-ish.
> 
> Thanks!


Still use both and no issues with either, ATM.


----------



## newtekie1 (Nov 21, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Hi, just curious how you like the AM4 platform?



I own and use both daily. the TL;DR is I prefer the Intel platform, it is definitely more refined and smother running for an enthusiast that tinkers.  However the AMD platform definitely has some pros. The NVMe port directly attached to the CPU, thanks to the extra 4 PCI-E lanes from the CPU, is nice.



freeagent said:


> Is it as smooth as running an Intel? Any quirks?



It definitely isn't as smooth running as Intel. Yes, it has quirks.  Overclocking on Intel is better implemented, to the point that I just don't overclock my AM4 platform.  Not that it really matters, the AMD all core overclocks are usually below the max turbo of the processor anyway, and for most people just leaving them at stock often results in better performance.

Then there is the whole RAID and SATA driver shit.  AMD's storage drivers is just totally jacked up. If you never plan to use RAID with the AMD platform, you'll be fine.  But if you do decide to try to put things in RAID mode, it turns into a nightmare.  For example, switching the SATA ports to RAID doesn't automatically put the M.2 NVMe ports in RAID mode.  Then when you install the SATA RAID drivers, your NVMe ports outright break until you go into a totally different area of the BIOS to enabled NVMe RAID.  Oh, and then you find out that putting the platform in RAID mode breaks TRIM support on SSDs! Intel has had TRIM with RAID enabled for years now, AMD still hasn't figured it out.  So then you try to switch things back, so you install the standard non-RAID drivers and switch everything in the BIOS back to non-RAID and your NVMe ports once again don't show up at all in Windows.  How fun!



freeagent said:


> Would you do anything different?



Yeah, forget about trying to use the AMD platform for any type of RAID.

Honestly, I've always had both running side by side. The Intel platform is old, it hasn't really changed much since Skylake, they've just been refining it for the past 5 years. They drivers are solid and there aren't really that many quirks. That said, the AMD platform is good too. It has a few quirks, but most won't be noticed unless you tinker. If you just want to build a computer and use it the AMD platform is just fine.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 21, 2020)

Thanks man! I know.. I have a 10600K in my cart.. I’m a little disgusted with myself but it’s not the first and probably won’t be the last time 

My wife is rolling her eyes and saying just buy it.. it’s just a little more than the XT I was looking at..


----------



## Bluecarz77 (Nov 21, 2020)

ive had intel all my life, 2600k, 6600k, 6700k, 7700k, 8700k, and have run 3 ryzen cpus in the last 3 years and in my experience the intel ones are fool proof right out of the box. they always just work, throw it in, overclock it a full ghz, little extra voltage and bam just works. and they are beasts when at 5.1ghz, 1.3 volts and idling at 27c, max temp while gaming 57c on a 120 rad, ive had issues with all my ryzen cpus spike at 1.495 volts out of the box and running at 45c in the bios at an idle with the same cooler. no matter what anyone tells you, it doesn't need that much voltage when opening the my pc desktop icon. i have my 3700x set at 1.2V at 4.2 ghz and ran tests on it all night, no crashes and idling 15c cooler. if you need a reliable setup that still performs decent, intel. if you want lots of cores and are somewhat bios savy, amd is just fine. i really like my 3700x and msi gaming plus motherboard. i just had to set cpu setting properly.




freeagent said:


> Thanks man! I know.. I have a 10600K in my cart.. I’m a little disgusted with myself but it’s not the first and probably won’t be the last time
> 
> My wife is rolling her eyes and saying just buy it.. it’s just a little more than the XT I was looking at..


hey man intel is awesome. dont let any amd fanboy tell you they suck. They always work with no issues. or at least for me


----------



## seth1911 (Nov 21, 2020)

My experience with AMD is really bad with Ryzen,
i had the chance to get a 3300X for 95$ but it didnt boot up cause the CPU or the Mainboard had some Problems with the RAM (GSkill Value RAM),
took another RAM again 3 days to wait, again it didnt boot (HyperX 3200 2x 8GB).

Now i have a I3 10100F and works pretty well with the GSkill Value RAM


AMD isnt bad since ryzen, its just junk. 
In my HTPC its working a A10 6800K so dont be mad AMD fanboys, but since ryzen they are junk, with many cores.


----------



## Naito (Nov 21, 2020)

I went from an Intel system with an i7 3770 paired with an Asrock Z77 Extreme4 to an AMD 3600X with an Asrock Phantom Gaming 4. Only issue I has was XMP didn't seem stable so I dialed in my own timings and clocks. Haven't had any problem with it since. Very reliable system. A BIOS update may have fixed it, but I haven't bothered going back and trying. Looking at getting a 5800X soon.


----------



## xman2007 (Nov 21, 2020)

seth1911 said:


> My experience with AMD is really bad with Ryzen,
> i had the chance to get a 3300X for 95$ but it didnt boot up cause the CPU or the Mainboard had some Problems with the RAM (GSkill Value RAM),
> took another RAM again 3 days to wait, again it didnt boot (HyperX 3200 2x 8GB).
> 
> ...


I think you're talking out of your proverbial backside mate, it didn't boot with 2 sets of RAM?? I call major BS even if the RAM was the worst of the worst it would boot up at standard jedec speeds at the very least! not too mention you had 2 separate RAM kits not boot up on the same system, either the CPU or board was faulty, just the fact you couldn't even figure that out for yourself speaks volumes, but hey, life is all peachy now that you have your glorious Intel system 

BTW I have had a Ryzen system from the very first month they were released back in 2017 with a 1600 and b350 board, ran mixed sticks of old ddr4 2800 dual/single rank on even the earliest AGESA bios and have always managed to run at the rated speed or at very least jedec spec when the board/CPU didn't like the RAM speed or timings, but have NEVER failed to boot with any RAM let alone 2 kits, I think your inexperience/biased fanboyism for Intel *yea we can see your other posts.... ) is clouding your judgement


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 21, 2020)

xman2007 said:


> I think you're talking out of your proverbial backside mate, it didn't boot with 2 sets of RAM?? I call major BS even if the RAM was the worst of the worst it would boot up at standard jedec speeds at the very least! not too mention you had 2 separate RAM kits not boot up on the same system, either the CPU or board was faulty, just the fact you couldn't even figure that out for yourself speaks volumes, but hey, life is all peachy now that you have your glorious Intel system
> 
> BTW I have had a Ryzen system from the very first month they were released back in 2017 with a 1600 and b350 board, ran mixed sticks of old ddr4 2800 dual/single rank on even the earliest AGESA bios and have always managed to run at the rated speed or at very least jedec spec when the board/CPU didn't like the RAM speed or timings, but have NEVER failed to boot with any RAM let alone 2 kits, I think your inexperience/biased fanboyism for Intel *yea we can see your other posts.... ) is clouding your judgement



He's never even booted into Windows with a Ryzen and says they're junk. That's like reviewing a car and saying it's crap without driving it.

Pretty much every computer out there is prone to memory issues. When I upgraded the memory on my 4670K I got a Kingston 2x8GB 1600MHz HyperX kit that spit out memory errors everywhere and I had to RMA it. Then I went to a Corsair Vengeance Pro 2x8GB 2133MHz kit and it was great. Shit happens.


----------



## Bluecarz77 (Nov 21, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> He's never even booted into Windows with a Ryzen and says they're junk. That's like reviewing a car and saying it's crap without driving it.
> 
> Pretty much every computer out there is prone to memory issues. When I upgraded the memory on my 4670K I got a Kingston 2x8GB 1600MHz HyperX kit that spit out memory errors everywhere and I had to RMA it. Then I went to a Corsair Vengeance Pro 2x8GB 2133MHz kit and it was great. Shit happens.


hey there is always someone who has bad experiences with every product on the planet. i like both. there both great


----------



## RainingTacco (Nov 22, 2020)

This days testing teams are small becasue of costs, so they release a product and then consumers are actually beta testing it[consumers today have low standards]. Seems that AMD is more keen on that approach than intel, given track records with zen,zen+ and zen2. I hear that zen3 also have some problems resurfacing, that were apparently fixed in older zens. Same for AMD gpu drivers. After 5700 xt im not gonna trust them, both with CPU and GPU. My advice is to always wait few months with AMD, and then buy, you will be less dissapointed.
AMD fans have all these stupid theories about intel or nvidia doing shady shit to undercut AMD, but in reality they are on top because of consumer appeal. And that appeal wasn't built on marketing alone...


----------



## John Naylor (Nov 22, 2020)

PCs are tools an , as such, we recommend the user select that which performs best in applications they actually use.   When we receive a build list to look over before a build, we ask what made you choose this particular CPU.

Good Answer - "I looked at reviews on line and reviewed the tests in the applications I use and, weighting those by ones used most often, I selected [insert CPU Brand model here]" ..... to which we respond "well done".

Terrible answer - "My friend said I should use this CPU because it had more cores." ... to which we respond "Do your applications benefit from ore cores ? ....    "I don't know"

Terrible answer - "I read on the internet that I should use this CPU because it had advanced technology using a smaller die" ." ... to which we respond "Does your applications benefit in any way  from the smaller die size ? ....    "I don't know"

If you are buying a CPU / GFX card in any given price range versus the competition for any other reason than it makes you more productive, (with secondary reasons being power, heat, noise and lifetime costs) you are doing it wrong.  

If you are building a box where the primary application is AutoCAD for 2D / 3D Drafting and you select an AMD processor, you are doing it wrong.

If you are building a box where the primary application is rendering those CAD Drawings and you select an Intel processor, you are doing it wrong.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 22, 2020)

Heck no I’m not that smart. Just games and internetty stuff. Maybe some transcodes here and there, and since it’s new some benchmarks. Other than that it’s nothing that’s going to be productive outside of some office stuff.  It’ll be a 5GHz+ Roblox box.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 22, 2020)

For gaming specifically the 10600k is better than the 3600XT but unless you have something faster than a 2080 super you will not notice unless you're an esports gamer and plan on rocking them potato settings. If you do go that route don't skimp on the mobo that way if rocket lake is actually good but uses 300w in it's sleep you might at least have the option to upgrade to it down the line whenever its discounted.


----------



## PooPipeBoy (Nov 22, 2020)

RainingTacco said:


> This days testing teams are small becasue of costs, so they release a product and then consumers are actually beta testing it[consumers today have low standards]. Seems that AMD is more keen on that approach than intel, given track records with zen,zen+ and zen2. I hear that zen3 also have some problems resurfacing, that were apparently fixed in older zens. Same for AMD gpu drivers. After 5700 xt im not gonna trust them, both with CPU and GPU. My advice is to always wait few months with AMD, and then buy, you will be less disappointment.
> AMD fans have all these stupid theories about intel or nvidia doing shady shit to undercut AMD, but in reality they are on top because of consumer appeal. And that appeal wasn't built on marketing alone...



It depends on how many unknowns there are. Zen 3 was a pretty safe upgrade even on launch day because the motherboards and 7nm node are already well refined platforms. In that situation there's not much to go wrong. But yeah generally being an early adopter is a pain in the a$$ and it's not recommended. Windows 10, anyone?


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 22, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Heck no I’m not that smart. Just games and internetty stuff. Maybe some transcodes here and there, and since it’s new some benchmarks. Other than that it’s nothing that’s going to be productive outside of some office stuff.  It’ll be a 5GHz+ Roblox box.



To bring the thread back on topic, I went from a 4790K to a 3700X in August of last year. Because it was soon after launch and Ryzen 3000 brought a lot to the table, there was a fair bit of firmware woes before they went away pretty much fully by the end of 2019. Getting a 3600XT now, there should be no issues whatsoever.

Depending on your GPU, you might notice better frame consistency and 1% lows. I certainly did on some games, and I kept my 1070 before and after. Depending on how fast you RAM was, how optimized your Windows was, and how fast your SATA SSD was, you may notice some general improvements in responsiveness. I think you'll appreciate most the much more modern platform and all its features (USB3.2 Gen2, 3.0 or 4.0 x4 NVMe, etc.).

If going for Comet Lake over AMD, I'd spend a little more on the board. Yes, any Z490 board will do, but Comet Lake is a little harder on the VRMs across the product stack than AMD.


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## freeagent (Nov 22, 2020)

As much as I'd love to, I cant swing a full system right now. Just bought a bunch of Christmas gifts, bills are paid and I haven't bought myself a new pc since x58 was new lol. so for now it will just be CPU, mobo and ram. Everything else in my sig will get hooked up to the Z490 in my Meshify C. Any recommends on a good midrange board? There was a time 300 CAD used to buy you a good board, that looks like its the new midrange now? I was looking at Asus and ASsRock.. but I am open minded since I am out of the loop.

I'm ready to buy a CPU tonight, and a board will have to wait 2-3 weeks. I think she might buy me some ram for Christmas.. I am avoiding credit because I hate bills and have enough of them. But cash works


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## Toothless (Nov 22, 2020)

Like tabascosauz, went from 4790k to 3700x. Everything runs so much gooder now. 

More details, upgrade was due to I was running out of CPU when doing daily stuff and things. Double the core/thread while maintaining IPC performance or greater? Yes pls. Ended up with a 3700x that beats a 3800x in multithread and my girlfriend got my old 4790k that ran at 4.6 easily.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 22, 2020)

This maybe as far as Asus goes but its really a mid range board








						ASUS PRIME Z490-A Intel Z490 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com
					

Buy ASUS PRIME Z490-A LGA 1200 (Intel 10th Gen) Intel Z490 SATA 6Gb/s ATX Intel Motherboard (14 DrMOS Power Stages, Dual M.2, Intel 2.5Gb Ethernet, USB 3.2 Front Panel Type-C, Thunderbolt 3 Support, Aura Sync RGB) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.ca
				




None of the Asrock boards in that general price range are any good 

This is one of the better budget boards. 








						MSI PRO Z490-A PRO LGA 1200 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com
					

Buy MSI PRO Z490-A PRO LGA 1200 Intel Z490 SATA 6Gb/s ATX Intel Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.ca
				




I could be wrong but going by the prices you listed I'm guessing you are north of the boarder from me.


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## freeagent (Nov 22, 2020)

Thank you sir, yes I am in Canada. Just had a big price drop, I can afford a 9900K now, but that's pretty much the top of my budget. Crazy times. I considered a stretch to a 10700K but nah..

Newegg Processors - Desktops | Newegg.ca


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 22, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Thank you sir, yes I am in Canada. Just had a big price drop, I can afford a 9900K now, but that's pretty much the top of my budget. Crazy times. I considered a stretch to a 10700K but nah..
> 
> Newegg Processors - Desktops | Newegg.ca




The 9900K is really hard to cool compared to the 10th gen K chips even with a low ambient a 360 radiator is barely adequate for 5ghz just giving you a heads up you might end up spending more just to cool it vs a 10700k and other than the top couple z390 boards most were pretty terrible. Even my Code which is just a fancy hero isn't that great

At Stock its ok and MCE is ok on a decent cooler Noctua D15 level if you are on air.


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## INSTG8R (Nov 22, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> Then there is the whole RAID and SATA driver shit. AMD's storage drivers is just totally jacked up. If you never plan to use RAID with the AMD platform, you'll be fine. But if you do decide to try to put things in RAID mode, it turns into a nightmare. For example, switching the SATA ports to RAID doesn't automatically put the M.2 NVMe ports in RAID mode. Then when you install the SATA RAID drivers, your NVMe ports outright break until you go into a totally different area of the BIOS to enabled NVMe RAID. Oh, and then you find out that putting the platform in RAID mode breaks TRIM support on SSDs! Intel has had TRIM with RAID enabled for years now, AMD still hasn't figured it out. So then you try to switch things back, so you install the standard non-RAID drivers and switch everything in the BIOS back to non-RAID and your NVMe ports once again don't show up at all in Windows. How fun!


BS! I have 2 SATA SSD/HDD RAID arrays(RAID0 and RAID1 + legacy SATA SSD/HDDs and 2 NVME literally every storage port used, Why would you expect SATA RAID to activate NMVE RAID? they’re separated as they should be. TRIM works fine even on the RAID array  Pretty much EVERYTHING you said is wrong...


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## Toothless (Nov 22, 2020)

I hope whichever brand, color, hot sauce, car tires, underwear fit that you pick, that you keep that beautiful x5690 in service until the caps pop. I hear WCG is always hiring..


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## freeagent (Nov 22, 2020)

Toothless said:


> I hope whichever brand, color, hot sauce, car tires, underwear fit that you pick, that you keep that beautiful x5690 in service until the caps pop. I hear WCG is always hiring..


Thank you sir! I tried to sell it lol.. I had one offer of 80 bucks for just the board, I had to pass. The x58 was listed for 250 for the board cpu and ram, then 200, yesterday I lowered it to 150, and this morning I pulled the ad. Looks like she’s mine lol. Tough crowd in this town where everyone wants something for nothing. Current events probably don’t help.

The sale ends Tuesday, probably won’t go with a 9 series chip, 10600K is still in my cart, after I have a coffee I will click buy now hopefully. I’m such a chicken. And I’m trying to get myself up to speed on what’s what and what sits where. Winter is upon us and that ten six would be happy with me I think.


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## Taraquin (Nov 22, 2020)

I switched earlier this year after 14 years of Intel only, I still have my i5 coffee lake, but rarely use it. No problems so far, feel I get much more bang for bucks and very satisfied. It was not until Zen 2 I felt comfortable upgrading as I 3600 with 3733cl15 ram now beats the crap out of my i5 8400 2666cl13 in productivity and most games. Had Intel been a bit more user friendly and allowed for ram/cpu-oc on budget motherboards I might still have used Intel.


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## freeagent (Nov 22, 2020)

I haven't clicked buy now yet, but I do have the 10600K, and an ASUS Prime Z490-P in my cart. Looking at ram now.. Nothing crazy just enough to get me in the door and maybe tweak a little. Good thing I watched those videos, I have an Asrock right now and was looking at the one he said don't buy. I thought it would have been decent since this one is pretty good.


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## Taraquin (Nov 22, 2020)

freeagent said:


> I haven't clicked buy now yet, but I do have the 10600K, and an ASUS Prime Z490-P in my cart. Looking at ram now.. Nothing crazy just enough to get me in the door and maybe tweak a little. Good thing I watched those videos, I have an Asrock right now and was looking at the one he said don't buy. I thought it would have been decent since this one is pretty good.


I would say a 5600X and a B550 gives you more bang for bucks. They cost about the same, but the 5600X i faster stock and even slightly faster with both OCed.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 22, 2020)

freeagent said:


> I haven't clicked buy now yet, but I do have the 10600K, and an ASUS Prime Z490-P in my cart. Looking at ram now.. Nothing crazy just enough to get me in the door and maybe tweak a little. Good thing I watched those videos, I have an Asrock right now and was looking at the one he said don't buy. I thought it would have been decent since this one is pretty good.



Asrock really dropped the ball on the budget z490 boards both asus and msi boards in that price range are substantially better.


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## freeagent (Nov 22, 2020)

Taraquin said:


> I would say a 5600X and a B550 gives you more bang for bucks. They cost about the same, but the 5600X i faster stock and even slightly faster with both OCed.


I know but those are all sold out, or else there is a strong possibility that I would have.



oxrufiioxo said:


> Asrock really dropped the ball on the budget z490 boards both asus and msi boards in that price range are substantially better.


It really is too bad. I didn’t hold a high regard for them until I got my z77 oc formula. That board changed my mind about them. I actually looked to them first before Asus. Bummer. The MSI looks good too, I have never considered them in the past, but they are in the books now.


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## DR4G00N (Nov 22, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Asrock really dropped the ball on the budget z490 boards both asus and msi boards in that price range are substantially better.


I don't think they did at all, I'm pretty sure they just figured that putting high-end vrm on a _budget_ mid-range board was unnecessary.
I mean if your running a 10900k under ln2 then it might have an issue but why would you use a mid range board for that anyway?


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 22, 2020)

DR4G00N said:


> I don't think they did at all, I'm pretty sure they just figured that putting high-end vrm on a _budget_ mid-range board was unnecessary.
> I mean if your running a 10900k under ln2 then it might have an issue but why would you use a mid range board for that anyway?



Because they can't even handle a 10600k at 5ghz let alone a 10900k while other boards at the same price range do easily.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Nov 22, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Yes. The socket hasn't changed. Twist and pull... do it warm.



I still think intels socket is better, they put the pins on the cheaper part, the board, depending what cpu you buy of course. IMO it’s easier to damage the pins on a amd chip than a intel socket.



John Naylor said:


> PCs are tools an , as such, we recommend the user select that which performs best in applications they actually use.   When we receive a build list to look over before a build, we ask what made you choose this particular CPU.
> 
> Good Answer - "I looked at reviews on line and reviewed the tests in the applications I use and, weighting those by ones used most often, I selected [insert CPU Brand model here]" ..... to which we respond "well done".
> 
> ...


 Lots of ryzen buyers only do so because they get more cores for their money, which is pointless if you don’t use apps that utilise them. Also hyper cores are not real cores, wish people would understand this. A 6 core hyper chip is still only 6 core, making a core do twice the work doesn’t make it two cores.


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## grammar_phreak (Nov 22, 2020)

When Ryzen and Threadripper first came out there were stability issues but those were more or less growing pains that come with a new platform. When Ryzen first came out back in 2017 there were a lot of users that were having a hard time finding the right RAM for their system and sometimes those people had to spend a little bit more on DDR4-3200 cl14 RAM that has Samsung B-Dies. As of late though I haven't heard too much about there being many issues because the issues have been resolved with BIOS and AGESA updates.

It seems like you're looking for a reliable motherboard. What I've always done is gone to newegg and looked at reviews because when people get a dud they usually write a 1-star review. A couple years ago I built my brother a system with a Crosshair VII Hero board and a R7 2700x but after the retailer return window closed the board started having issues. It took 2 months and 2 RMA's to get Asus to replace the board. IMO, if I had tested that board more thoroughly then I might have been able to find the issue. Thus I could have exchanged the board with the retailer without any hassle. So no matter what you buy, you might get a dud that needs to be exchanged.

I don't know what you can get out of your lga775 parts because I've seen parts like the Gigabyte EP45-UD3P and a q9650 sit on craigslist and offerup for months on end. The Rampage III board might be easier to sell I don't see you getting much over $100 out of that combo. I know these things sell on ebay for a lot more but it seems like local buyers are looking to get something for next to nothing. I'd still suggest listing those parts for close to ebay prices because you never know if there's someone who is looking for that specific part.  Lately I've seen a few 3770k's going for $85-100 and decent 1155 board going for around $60-80.

The 4 systems that I use have a Xeon E5-1680 v2, i7-2600k, i7-3770k and a Ryzen 9 3900x with SSD boot drives. When it comes to surfing the web or watching videos I'm not able tell the difference between my 2600k system and R9 3900x system. My youngest brother had a system paired with a 3770k and GTX 1070 and that thing was still a gaming beast but he upgraded to an 8700k and 1080ti because he wanted more muscle for his 1440p/144hz monitor. So if you want to see the difference then you'd have to have the use case that call for it. I think upgrading to a 5800x or 10700k would feel underwhelming if you're still gaming on a 1080p/60hz display.


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## freeagent (Nov 22, 2020)

Would it be worth the stretch to a 10700K? I think it might be. It’s a little more then I want to spend, but I’m probably going to use it for a few years so I might as well get something I’m going to be happy with. Apparently I keep them so long they aren’t worth anything when I’m done with them. I was thinking of getting a Asus Prime Z490-A to run with either.. It will only be driving my 980 Classified for a couple of months.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 22, 2020)

Kinda comes down to how much you need the additional cores for gaming specifically they will be pretty similar I personally would invest in a better motherboard and go with a 10600k if my budget was limited but that's just me only you can decide whats best for your needs.


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## freeagent (Nov 22, 2020)

Indeed, thanks for your insight. Back to the ten six, and back to reading


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## DR4G00N (Nov 22, 2020)

If what your doing is mainly gaming then it doesn't make a significant difference whichever one you choose, they're all going to be about the same.


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## freeagent (Nov 23, 2020)

Ok, I’m going to try AMD I think.

Ive got in my cart:

3600XT $309
Asrock B450M Steel Legend $90 after rebate
2x8 G.Skill Trident Z 3600 $130

Not too shabby..


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## Caring1 (Nov 23, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Ok, I’m going to try AMD I think.
> 
> Ive got in my cart:
> 
> ...


Pick a better Motherboard.


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## EarthDog (Nov 23, 2020)

We still haven't made a decision and waffling? Wowzas!


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## freeagent (Nov 23, 2020)

I told you I was terrible. I really wanted to give AMD a chance. I’m chasing my tail now.. I was up late last night setting that up. Bah. Ok well I’ll figure something out and post back


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## Flanker (Nov 23, 2020)

Congratz OP, you're as bad as I am


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## tabascosauz (Nov 23, 2020)

freeagent said:


> I told you I was terrible. I really wanted to give AMD a chance. I’m chasing my tail now.. I was up late last night setting that up. Bah. Ok well I’ll figure something out and post back



If you're also in Canada, then man, you missed the $275 3600X. One of my friends picked one up this weekend. $309 3600XT isn't so bad, though.

If you can get in on it quick, you can snag the B450 Gaming Plus MAX, $114 CAD. Get it while it lasts. Far better board than the Steel Legend. It's out of stock online but a bunch of ME stores across the country still have it. Friend also picked that one up as well. All the B550 boards are more expensive, and all of them in the $100-150 price range here in Canada all suck donkey nuts except maybe for the MSI mATX B550.

But you need to get in on it quick, the MSI board is a black friday deal. Reserve it online so you can pick it up in store.

As for the RAM, the two Trident Zs at $130 are 3600CL19 and complete shite. If you want G.skill, get the 3600CL16 Ripjaws at $100. If you can do without G.skill, get the white Ballistix 3600CL16 at $103.


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## freeagent (Nov 23, 2020)

Sweet thanks man! I did miss that deal for 275, I lived on Newegg this weekend and did not see it. Though the XT dropped in price at about 130 am to 309 same as the 3600 and the X. Good to know about B550, it’s not in the cart anymore

Ok I’ve got my 3600XT, MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max, and 16gb Ballistix CL 16. Timings seem like crap now, where all the cl 13 and 14 lol.


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## EarthDog (Nov 23, 2020)

Why B450? Are you sure that board will support 5000 series when you upgrade? I recall B450 won't or not all will... (not sure). This is why everyone (almost?) suggest B550 or X570 so at least you have a drop in upgrade to 5000 series.

That board hasn't had a BIOS update since July... So far it doesn't accept 5000 series and stuck on an older AGESA.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 23, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Why B450? Are you sure that board will support 5000 series when you upgrade? I recall B450 won't or not all will... (not sure). This is why everyone (almost?) suggest B550 or X570 so at least you have a drop in upgrade to 5000 series.
> 
> That board hasn't had a BIOS update since July... So far it doesn't accept 5000 series and stuck on an older AGESA.



B450 beta BIOS is coming in early 2021. And if there's any X470/B450 boards that can take the upgrade without problems, it's MSI's MAX boards because they have the 32MB BIOS chip. MSI committed to bringing Ryzen 5000 support to its B450s in Jan 2021.

Initial AGESA 1100 releases on even B550 boards haven't exactly been problem free. The first 1100 release for my Asus B550 spat out WHEA and USB errors like there was no tomorrow. The first 1100 release for my Gigabyte B550 had half-baked settings menus and started corrupting itself. May as well wait an extra month for a proper release after Robert Hallock's promised "better firmware" for 5000. 

Besides, CPU is a 3600XT.


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## NoJuan999 (Nov 23, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> B450 beta BIOS is coming in early 2021. And if there's any X470/B450 boards that can take the upgrade without problems, it's MSI's MAX boards because they have the 32MB BIOS chip.


Asrock (officially released), Asus and Gigabyte (leaked) all have B450 Beta BIOSes that support Ryzen 5000 CPU's.
#8 (techpowerup.com)


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## freeagent (Nov 23, 2020)

That steel legend supported 5 series


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## tabascosauz (Nov 23, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Sweet thanks man! I did miss that deal for 275, I lived on Newegg this weekend and did not see it. Though the XT dropped in price at about 130 am to 309 same as the 3600 and the X. Good to know about B550, it’s not in the cart anymore
> 
> Ok I’ve got my 3600XT, MSI B450 Gaming Plus Max, and 16gb Ballistix CL 16. Timings seem like crap now, where all the cl 13 and 14 lol.



Just going to have to get used to it    thought the same thing when I moved off the 4790K, looked at 3200CL16 kits and was like wtf is up with tCL. But the fundamentals still work the same way.

3600CL16 is a good place to be. 3200CL16 and 3600CL19, less so. The Ballistix also overclock quite well if you want to get into DDR4 OC, but leaving it at XMP is a good solution too.


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## EarthDog (Nov 23, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> B450 beta BIOS is coming in early 2021. And if there's any X470/B450 boards that can take the upgrade without problems, it's MSI's MAX boards because they have the 32MB BIOS chip. MSI committed to bringing Ryzen 5000 support to its B450s in Jan 2021.
> 
> Initial AGESA 1100 releases on even B550 boards haven't exactly been problem free. The first 1100 release for my Asus B550 spat out WHEA and USB errors like there was no tomorrow. The first 1100 release for my Gigabyte B550 had half-baked settings menus and started corrupting itself. May as well wait an extra month for a proper release after Robert Hallock's promised "better firmware" for 5000.
> 
> Besides, CPU is a 3600XT.


right.. just thinking about the future. 

I won't hold my breath and would rather b550/x570 personally.


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## DuxCro (Nov 23, 2020)

I switched to ZEN and...........


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 23, 2020)

That b450 steel legend is pretty bad even the B550 variant is outclassed by cheaper alternatives if you're dead set on getting a B450 board stick with a max variant from MSI for sure. 

The gaming plus isn't great but its still better than the steel legend.

I'd save up if you're cutting it that close for a b550 board which while also offering pcie gen 4 have substantially better vrms


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## freeagent (Nov 23, 2020)

Oh no I’m not dead set on anything, I’m a total noob and almost completely ignorant to the current state of affairs with modern computers and have been in a bubble for many moons. I am on a crash course right now, there is a lot to take in. Thanks for helping 

What do you think of the STRIX B550-F GAMING (WI-FI) ? I found one open box for a good price..


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 23, 2020)

If you don't mind open box it's more than adequate for any ryzen cpu and substantially better than any b450 board.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 23, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> If you don't mind open box it's more than adequate for any ryzen cpu and substantially better than any b450 board.



I mean, if we're moving up to the $150+ CAD mark, then things get interesting. Unfortunately, it's still the case that the first relatively decent, actual ATX sized 500-series board is the B550 Gaming X at a whopping $179 - given the quality of that board, it's pretty apparent how weak the Canuckistan peso is right now.

The Mortar has moved down in price, so at $170 it's a great choice over the others at that range (including the Bazooka which is for some reason same price). But it is mATX...if that's a consideration. For all the ATX boards that actually start getting high end features like 2.5Gbe LAN, 50A DrMOS, and AX Wifi, you're looking at $200+. 

But if that open box Strix-F piques your interest, go for it. Strix-F, Tomahawk and Aorus Pro all seem pretty comparable (read: highly decent).


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## freeagent (Nov 23, 2020)

I just had to keep scrolling to find the unsealed version for like 15 more haha. Ok so I guess I have my system now.

3600XT for the same price as a 3600 @ 309
Asus ROG Strix B550-F WiFi for 239
Ballistix 3600 c16 for 103

Sweet!

It should be a solid bump from my Z77. I did try to cheap out a little bit probably for the best I don’t do it too much. I’ll be using this or my kids will be using this for a few years.. think the 3600XT will be ok or should I get a 3700X? There will be a GPU upgrade in the near future..


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## NoJuan999 (Nov 23, 2020)

A 3600XT will work well for gaming.
But if you do any multi threaded work, like encoding videos, etc., I'd go with the 3700x.
Ryzen 5 3600XT vs Ryzen 7 3700X Benchmarks in 2020 | Techy Bench

PS
I am a Big fan of that Asus ROG Strix B550-F WiFi.
If I was looking to upgrade my motherboard to a B550 that one would be at/near the top of my list.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 23, 2020)

Looking good, the 3700X is solid but for 90 Cad more you likely won't notice the difference I'd save that 90 cad to put towards a better gpu.

If you can utilize the extra 2 cores go for it though.


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## Deleted member 202104 (Nov 23, 2020)

freeagent said:


> think the 3600XT will be ok or should I get a 3700X? There will be a GPU upgrade in the near future..



Go with the 3600XT and save the extra to apply to a 5000 series in 12-18 months.


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## EarthDog (Nov 23, 2020)

weekendgeek said:


> Go with the 3600XT and save the extra to apply to a 5000 series in 12-18 months.


This. QFT.


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## Kissamies (Nov 23, 2020)

Had a Ryzen 5 2600 for about 1½ years. Sold those in May, went for a while with old i7-2600K and now I have Ryzen 5 3600. Nothing to complain here with Ryzens.


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## newtekie1 (Nov 23, 2020)

weekendgeek said:


> Go with the 3600XT and save the extra to apply to a 5000 series in 12-18 months.



If you are going to do that, get a 3100. It's enough for a few months.  Plus, the 3700X is actually cheaper than the 3600XT.  The 3700X is only $280 compared to the $309 for 3600XT.


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 23, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> If you are going to do that, get a 3100. It's enough for a few months.  Plus, the 3700X is actually cheaper than the 3600XT.  The 3700X is only $280 compared to the $309 for 3600XT.



Op is Canadian so  quoting us prices is pretty pointless

309 cad vs 399 cad









						AMD RYZEN 7 3700X 8-Core 3.6 GHz Desktop CPU Processor - Newegg.com
					

Buy AMD Ryzen 7 3rd Gen - RYZEN 7 3700X Matisse (Zen 2) 8-Core 3.6 GHz (4.4 GHz Max Boost) Socket AM4 65W 100-100000071BOX Desktop Processor with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.ca


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Nov 23, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> If you are going to do that, get a 3100. It's enough for a few months.  Plus, the 3700X is actually cheaper than the 3600XT.  The 3700X is only $280 compared to the $309 for 3600XT.



Poster is in Canada so prices are a bit different, and the resale value of a 6-core part (or re-purposing of) is going to be better than a 4-core part, especially the 3100 with its split compute units.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 23, 2020)

Yes, sorry I am Canadian, and our prices kind of suck.

this is the choices I have:









						Newegg,Socket AM4 Processors - Desktops | Newegg.ca
					

Shop Newegg,Socket AM4 Processors - Desktops on Newegg.ca. Watch for amazing deals and get great pricing.




					www.newegg.ca
				




I think the 3600XT will be fine


----------



## newtekie1 (Nov 23, 2020)

Oh, sorry, I saw newegg and just assumed US.  In that case, yeah go with the 3600XT.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 24, 2020)

Ok! Making some progress.. 

I really fought the urge to buy Intel. It was hard. I sure hope I don't rip that CPU out of the socket I will be so choked.

This is what I bought so far. I have my loan payment coming out so I had to keep myself in check.. Next check I will get a board..

AMD Ryzen 5 3600XT 3.8 GHz Desktop Processor - Newegg.ca 

And the ram.. its not the fastest but it should still do ok.. if not well.. I don't know I'll figure that out later.

G.SKILL Trident Z Royal Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin RGB DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-16GTRG - Newegg.ca 

Its CL14 so it should still do ok.. maybe. Its the only reason I bought it I swear lol. Not sure about the gold and bling and omg lol. I almost feel ridiculous now maybe Ill sharpie it later. It was also on the QVL list for the board I was looking at, one of the first entries for that size and speed heh..

And this is the board I will be getting.. Unless I persuade myself to get an X570. I almost typed X58..

ASUS ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING (WI-FI) AM4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.ca


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 24, 2020)

Rams fine other than the price pretty sure you should be able to get a 3600 CL16 kit for that

Like this Bdie kit









						G.SKILL Trident Z Neo (For AMD Ryzen) Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin RGB DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C16D-16GTZN - Newegg.com
					

Buy G.SKILL Trident Z Neo (For AMD Ryzen) Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin RGB DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3600 (PC4 28800) Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C16D-16GTZN with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.ca


----------



## freeagent (Nov 24, 2020)

Uhoh I thought those were the ones. I already paid for them. Shit. Should I send them back and get those?


----------



## INSTG8R (Nov 24, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Uhoh I thought those were the ones. I already paid for them. Shit. Should I send them back and get those?


I would,  3600 lets you run 1:1 with the Infinity Fabric on the CPU


----------



## freeagent (Nov 24, 2020)

Ok will do.

Do you think those gold tridents will run 3600 with the same or tighter timings as the other stuff? Probably not eh?


----------



## INSTG8R (Nov 24, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Ok will do.
> 
> Do you think those gold tridents will run 3600 with the same or tighter timings as the other stuff? Probably not eh?


Well they are CL14 and probably decent ICs so loosening to say CL16 they may be able to hit 3600.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 24, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Ok will do.
> 
> Do you think those gold tridents will run 3600 with the same or tighter timings as the other stuff? Probably not eh?



That's a tricky one. Generally, the 3200/14s _should _be of a better bin than the 3600/16 B-dies, meaning they will overclock better and/or at lower voltage. But the 3600 kit will offer better out of the box performance. I would expect a 3200/14 to do 3600/14 without issue.

In terms of B-die, both are alright. Personally, I feel that $200+ is a steep price to pay for a single rank B-die kit here, especially one that you _will _need to learn to overclock to get the most out of it, but I paid $135 for my 4133 Viper Steels so I might be biased lol. But if you're open to learning, there's nothing here that can't be quickly picked up.

These are two 8GB single rank sticks in a 4 DIMM motherboard, there shouldn't be thermal problems at all. Thus being Bdie, if you want to overclock, you should honestly be going straight to 1.45/1.5V and seeing what you can get out of it. At 1.5V, both 3200/14 and 3600/16 should be able to do 3600/14 without a worry in the world. 1.45V, a little less certain.

Moral of the story, unless you really genuinely care this much about learning about memory overclocking that doesn't exactly impact real performance by much, save the money and stick with the $100 Ballistix 3600/16 I told you about. Even that one will let you learn and tweak, different ICs have different characteristics but the basics remain the same.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 24, 2020)

All 6 of my 3200CL14 kits do 3800 16-16-16-32 or better with decent subtimings most at 1.4-1.45V none of them do 3800 CL 14-14-14 though at least at voltages I'm comfortable with running 24/7

So it really comes down to how much you want to tweak them and how much you love the gold heatspreader and the crystal rgb I have a 4000 CL15 kit of the silver variant and they look amazing but for most the cost difference just doesn't make sense.

Stock XMP/DOCP is usually pretty terrible so regardless of what ram kit maybe other than the 3800 CL14 kit you'll need to tweak to get the most out of them but if you don't plan on tweaking at all I would definitely go with a 3600 CL16 kit.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 24, 2020)

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it! I knew I should have ran it by you guys. I assumed they were good sticks, my mistake. 25 bucks of that cost was shipping from the states, and those other ones that were linked will also cost the same to import. Those white ones were only 20 to import. You guys are all awesome, I will have to look to the forum for tips and tricks. I don’t think I’m going to start overclocking right away. As for learning to clock again, I don’t mind.. maybe I’ll just buy another set and sit on these ones. I can’t escape high prices, even people selling used stuff around here are wanting close to retail. Sickening. So those Ballistix weren’t on the QVL for the mobo I was looking at, is that still a bit of an issue these days? If not I will just buy them. Maybe I’ll keep the golds for an Intel build. She has a great job right now and I don’t have to support a family of four by myself anymore so money should be a little easier for me to come by in the future.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 24, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it! I knew I should have ran it by you guys. I assumed they were good sticks, my mistake. 25 bucks of that cost was shipping from the states, and those other ones that were linked will also cost the same to import. Those white ones were only 20 to import. You guys are all awesome, I will have to look to the forum for tips and tricks. I don’t think I’m going to start overclocking right away. As for learning to clock again, I don’t mind.. maybe I’ll just buy another set and sit on these ones. I can’t escape high prices, even people selling used stuff around here are wanting close to retail. Sickening. So those Ballistix weren’t on the QVL for the mobo I was looking at, is that still a bit of an issue these days? If not I will just buy them. Maybe I’ll keep the golds for an Intel build. She has a great job right now and I don’t have to support a family of four by myself anymore so money should be a little easier for me to come by in the future.



The Royals aren't bad sticks. Neither are the RGBs. Anything that can _only _be B-die - 3200/14, 3600 16-16-16, 4000/15, 4000 18-19-19, 4400 19-19-19 - isn't "bad" by any stretch of the imagination. The only "bad" B-die is the Corsair stuff that isn't readily identifiable as B-die and that you only got as luck of the draw out of the billion other possible ICs that you can potentially get in that kit.

The Royals are just very expensive, because they're Royals.

QVL makes a lot more sense when we're talking about bargain basement $50-100 4-layer PCB motherboards, some of which literally struggle with running dual rank sticks at 3600MT/s because their memory trace design is so bad; you shouldn't have issues with the white Ballistix on your Strix-F. My guess is probably that it's either 8Gb Micron Rev.E or the peculiar 16Gb-cut-down-to-8Gb Micron Rev.B, both of which are easy overclockers and are made for good compatibility with Ryzen.



oxrufiioxo said:


> All 6 of my 3200CL14 kits do 3800 16-16-16-32 or better with decent subtimings most at 1.4-1.45V none of them do 3800 CL 14-14-14 though at least at voltages I'm comfortable with running 24/7



Makes me feel a bit better about not being able to do 3800/14 on my Viper Steel   knowing that the good G.skills have trouble too


----------



## EarthDog (Nov 24, 2020)

If you're 16x posts, in to a build thread, I'd stick to the motherboard QVL list just to make sure. All this 'die' talk is great information, but not terribly relevant considering you're going to set XMP/DOCP/AXMP and go (right)?.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 24, 2020)

Thanks man, this thread is full of great info! I’ll probably buy those Ballistix anyways just because of the cost of shipping.. like throwing fifty bucks away. I did buy the XT for tweaking a bit if I’m honest. I don’t intend to clock right away, but if the bios looks inviting and I can decipher what’s going on then maybe sooner than later.. like first boot to get the ram running 1:1 lol.



EarthDog said:


> If you're 16x posts, in to a build thread, I'd stick to the motherboard QVL list just to make sure. All this 'die' talk is great information, but not terribly relevant considering you're going to set XMP/DOCP/AXMP and go (right)?.


Probably..


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 24, 2020)

Ryzen memory tweaking is much easier than intel and Bdie you should be able to tweak in your sleep if shipping it back cost you money just keep it and tweak it whenever you feel up to it.

until you get a much faster gpu 3200 is gonna feel just like 3800 and even then we are talking 3-5% once both are heavily tuned in cpu limited scenarios.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 24, 2020)

I’m sure it will rock compared to ddr3 1866 9-10-9-28-2T 

I love my Z77 but it’s time to move on. She doesn’t owe me a thing. After I get a mobo I’ll grab a new GPU. I looked on the weekend and anything worth buying IMO was sold out.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 24, 2020)

Yeah just rock the 980 till the gpu market calms down not sure what your budget is but the 6700XT/3060Ti should both be very good at around the 520-550 cad mark just a guess because they should be around 399 usd


----------



## freeagent (Nov 24, 2020)

Yup that’s what I was looking at, and maybe a 3070 cuz I’m feeling saucy. I knew the AMD cards would have been sold out. Lots of people flexing their credit cards lately


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 24, 2020)

I looked at one (6800XT) for a couple minutes on newegg and was tempted but going to wait for a 3080 ti and if that never materializes I'll likely just grab a 3090 at some point.


----------



## newtekie1 (Nov 24, 2020)

INSTG8R said:


> I would,  3600 lets you run 1:1 with the Infinity Fabric on the CPU



The Infinity Fabric and RAM always run at 1:1 unless you manually change it.  This is one of the reasons that Ryzen processors see a significant performance improvement when using 3200-3600MHz RAM over say 2400MHz. The IF clock goes up to match the faster RAM. With 2400MHz RAM, the IF runs at 1200MHz.  With 3200MHz RAM the IF runs at 1600MHz.  The faster IF makes quite a bit of difference.  Of course you start to hit diminishing returns after about 3200MHz.  So the sweet spot for RAM tends to between 3200 and 3600MHz RAM.

I personally wouldn't waste my time returning 3200MHz RAM for 3600MHz RAM, the difference isn't noticeable in actual use.



oxrufiioxo said:


> I looked at one (6800XT) for a couple minutes on newegg and was tempted but going to wait for a 3080 ti and if that never materializes I'll likely just grab a 3090 at some point.



I'll be picking up a 3090 for sure, but not until next year some time, when the hype dies down and their are plenty of models in stock to pick from.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 24, 2020)

Ok!

CPU and ram are on the way.. should be here by Friday. Think I should send the XT back and get the 10600K?
Lol.. I’ve seen the Croods a lot, anything new is bad lol


----------



## thesmokingman (Nov 24, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Ok will do.
> 
> Do you think those gold tridents will run 3600 with the same or tighter timings as the other stuff? Probably not eh?



Generally speaking one should buy the fastest ram at the rated speed you want to run at. The ram is binned for that speed. Buying ram at a lower speed, means your buying ram binned for a lower speed and you are taking a chance they will run at a higher speed. Sometimes this works sometimes it doesn't. It just depends on how much padding they binned into it. A lot of guys will say buy the lower speed stuff and oc it, except they don't have to guarantee anything to you they just sound boastful and proud and you have to deal with the real issues. Keep that in mind.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 24, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Ok!
> 
> CPU and ram are on the way.. should be here by Friday. Think I should send the XT back and get the 10600K?
> Lol.. I’ve seen the Croods a lot, anything new is bad lol



Looks like we're going to be building together  gotta build my friend's 3600X setup this weekend


----------



## freeagent (Nov 24, 2020)

Awesome man! I am genuinely excited for this. I’m also ok with it not being the fastest. It’s still pretty good though. I can always build another rig if I’m not happy, but I think it will be fine. A good step up from what I had and that’s what counts.


----------



## INSTG8R (Nov 25, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> The Infinity Fabric and RAM always run at 1:1 unless you manually change it.  This is one of the reasons that Ryzen processors see a significant performance improvement when using 3200-3600MHz RAM over say 2400MHz. The IF clock goes up to match the faster RAM. With 2400MHz RAM, the IF runs at 1200MHz.  With 3200MHz RAM the IF runs at 1600MHz.  The faster IF makes quite a bit of difference.  Of course you start to hit diminishing returns after about 3200MHz.  So the sweet spot for RAM tends to between 3200 and 3600MHz RAM.
> 
> I personally wouldn't waste my time returning 3200MHz RAM for 3600MHz RAM, the difference isn't noticeable in actual use.
> 
> ...


My point was 1800mhz is max speed of IF on Zen 2 so 3600 is the “highest“ no need to be pedantic about what I meant about 1:1 and it certainly improves performance.


----------



## Sandbo (Nov 26, 2020)

switched from Intel Z170+6700K to AM4+2700X then 3600X, never looked back.


----------



## newtekie1 (Nov 26, 2020)

INSTG8R said:


> My point was 1800mhz is max speed of IF on Zen 2 so 3600 is the “highest“ no need to be pedantic about what I meant about 1:1 and it certainly improves performance.



If that is what you meant, then you should have said that. Because what you said originally was wrong.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 26, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> Generally speaking one should buy the fastest ram at the rated speed you want to run at. The ram is binned for that speed. Buying ram at a lower speed, means your buying ram binned for a lower speed and you are taking a chance they will run at a higher speed. Sometimes this works sometimes it doesn't. It just depends on how much padding they binned into it. A lot of guys will say buy the lower speed stuff and oc it, except they don't have to guarantee anything to you they just sound boastful and proud and you have to deal with the real issues. Keep that in mind.


Ha! I recommended a friend of mine to buy faster RAM and underclock it 
Mostly because RAM is quite cheap at the moment so...


----------



## freeagent (Nov 26, 2020)

I'm having a hard time choosing a board. I was originally going to go with the Strix B550-F but had second thoughts because of some of the Newegg reviews. Not sure if its a problem on the user side with being new, or if it genuinely has some issues. TPU review looked good, and so did some others. I was looking at X570 and they are pricy if you want something decent? Its crazy how some B550 have more useable features than X570. That Strix is on sale for a really good price right now. Dammit.

My biggest fear with this build right now is those dam pins at cooler removal.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 26, 2020)

freeagent said:


> I'm having a hard time choosing a board. I was originally going to go with the Strix B550-F but had second thoughts because of some of the Newegg reviews. Not sure if its a problem on the user side with being new, or if it genuinely has some issues. TPU review looked good, and so did some others. I was looking at X570 and they are pricy if you want something decent? Its crazy how some B550 have more useable features than X570. That Strix is on sale for a really good price right now. Dammit.
> 
> My biggest fear with this build right now is those dam pins at cooler removal.



I thought you bought the board already ?!  

No need to worry yourself sick over the PGA socket. Just don't yank it like you would Intel. Undo the cooler mounting mechanism so that the paste is the only thing holding it together, then gently massage/wiggle the cooler until you feel the paste starting to give, then keep going until it comes off. Slow and steady wins the race.

Unless you use the stock cooler with the pre-applied glue paste, then you're boned.  

As for boards, the B550-F, X570-F, X570 Tomahawk, B550 Tomahawk, X570 Aorus Pro and B550 Aorus Pro all sit around the same mark. Asus BIOS is undeniably the easiest to navigate and work with, but the other boards have their own perks.


----------



## toname (Nov 26, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Really? Those are still APUs and they're Athlons, not Ryzen
> Was the OP asking about Athlons?


Here are some RYZEN APUs


			https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-with-graphics


----------



## TheLostSwede (Nov 26, 2020)

toname said:


> Here are some RYZEN APUs
> 
> 
> https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-with-graphics


Sorry, what? 
I'm 1. not sure why you're quoting me 2. not sure what you're replying to and 3. not sure what relevance this has.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 26, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> I thought you bought the board already ?!
> 
> No need to worry yourself sick over the PGA socket. Just don't yank it like you would Intel. Undo the mounting mechanism so that the paste is the only thing holding it together, then gently massage/wiggle the cooler until you feel the paste starting to give, then keep going until it comes off. Slow and steady wins the race.
> 
> ...


I know, I'm a total worry wart, got the white hair to prove it lol. Ok, shouldn't be completely new to me, I did run 939 and had it happen a couple of times. But I had that cooler off probably a hundred times. I think it was from AS5, but cant be certain.. I don't use that anymore. Alright, I will pull the trigger on a board today, I was going to wait.. but I get paid in a couple of days and have an overdraft if I need it, as well as CC I suppose, but trying not to use it. And she is working now so that is a huge bonus. Huge. Ok, I'm going to get the B550 Strix, or maybe was looking at the B550 Extreme4.. just a little more initially but cheaper after mail in rebate. Those are the 2 B550 boards I am interested in. I checked the Asrock QVL but my tridents aren't on the list, but the Asrock is on G.Skills QVL.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 26, 2020)

freeagent said:


> I know, I'm a total worry wart, got the white hair to prove it lol. Ok, shouldn't be completely new to me, I did run 939 and had it happen a couple of times. But I had that cooler off probably a hundred times. I think it was from AS5, but cant be certain.. I don't use that anymore. Alright, I will pull the trigger on a board today, I was going to wait.. but I get paid in a couple of days and have an overdraft if I need it, as well as CC I suppose, but trying not to use it. And she is working now so that is a huge bonus. Huge. Ok, I'm going to get the B550 Strix, or maybe was looking at the B550 Extreme4.. just a little more initially but cheaper after mail in rebate. Those are the 2 B550 boards I am interested in. I checked the Asrock QVL but my tridents aren't on the list, but the Asrock is on G.Skills QVL.



If anything, I wouldn't worry about Asus' QVL as on the 6-layer and better Asus boards they generally know what they're doing designing memory traces, and it's a special achievement to make a 6-layer board that can't run dual rank 3600 lmao. ASRock, however...let's just say that memory isn't their strong suit and leave it at that. Don't want to relive that experience again. 

Wouldn't take anything else over Asus BIOS too. Gigabyte BIOS decent if you get to know it inside and out, MSI BIOS hard on the eyes but knows what it's doing for memory training, Asus best all-round. But that's just my opinion.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 26, 2020)

Thanks man, ok going to order the Asus 

Ok I bought it! I didn’t get the WiFi version though. I would have but I like money too, and don’t really need WiFi on my pc.









						ASUS ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING AM4 ATX Motherboard - Newegg.com
					

Buy ASUS ROG STRIX B550-F GAMING AM4 AMD B550 SATA 6Gb/s ATX AMD Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.ca
				




I also found AM4 mounting hardware for one of my Thermalright coolers. It will work for both so I don’t need to use the stock cooler. I tried for 3 days to contact Thermalright for a mounting kit, no reply. Not impressed. But I have the parts for one I think so it’s fine I suppose.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 26, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Thanks man, ok going to order the Asus
> 
> Ok I bought it! I didn’t get the WiFi version though. I would have but I like money too, and don’t really need WiFi on my pc.
> 
> ...



Easy enough to add with a PCIe Wifi card later.

Dunno if you have any preferences for paste, but I've had an easier time with cooler removal moving from NT-H1 to MX4. MX4 is pretty runny by comparison and less "dry" so when it comes time to repaste it's been an easy affair for me, regardless of the size of cooler from my smallest U9S all the way to the chunky Dark Rock Pro 4. You'll get used to repasting AM4 regardless of what you use.

Obviously if you're the type to use Kryonaut or even Conductonaut, MX4 probably won't float your boat thermally


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 26, 2020)

I use Kryonaut on all my amd system zero issues repasting although I use aio cooling on all of them..... The only issues I've ever had is with the stock amd paste which is just nasty imo.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 26, 2020)

Just wanted to thank you guys. Thanks for taking the time out to help, explain, and for sharing your thoughts. It is very much appreciated. Everyone who replied is awesome. 

As for paste, I have been using TF8 for about a year now, that stuff is great. I remember AS5 thickens up quite a bit when it’s cured, this stuff doesn’t. So it might be ok.. I’ll try to heat it up before I dismount. I’ll check IHS for flatness and go with the best mate. I’ve got a cooler with 6x 8mm pipes and one with 7x 6mm pipes.. I hope they work as good on AMD as they did on my Intel systems. I think the plate on my LGMRT is machined a little nicer. My TS140P is a little more convex. I’m guessing it’s down to the machine operator at that point it and the care he took in loading the part to be machined. I know of another guy who has my coolers and his TS140P is about 5c better than his LGMRT, where mine is the opposite. Either way, I’m fairly happy. Even though I spent a little more on ram, I still saved about a hundred bucks and 14% tax. Next up is a GPU lol 

After Christmas..


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Nov 26, 2020)

With the way the gpu market is going it may be February or March before you can grab anything decent.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 26, 2020)

That’s ok, I can start saving in January and get something decent by then. I’m still at 1080p/60 so my 980 is still ok for now for the games I own. My Epic library is becoming.. epic lol.

Well, my first part came!


----------



## Flogger23m (Nov 26, 2020)

AM4 was a mess in the early days but it wasn't that bad; just couldn't get RAM to run at full speed. After around a year of BIOS updates it worked great. I upgraded my CPU then to a 2700X and now to a 3700X. Now I can run my RAM at full speed. Zero issues since. 

It was a $110 side grade from my 4670K to the 1600, but it was worth it when you factor in my current CPU and BIOS updates. If I hadn't hesitated the side grade would've been $90 originally. Passed up some coupons but finally bit.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 26, 2020)

I’m pretty stoked if I’m honest! I love my z77.. though it did suffer the recent loss of its P8Z77-V, and was replaced with a beastly Z77 OC Formula. My previous system was X58.. I am excited to see what nearly a decade of technology has done for the pc since I have not seen anything newer running lol. It should be good!


----------



## MikeMurphy (Nov 26, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Hi, just curious how you like the AM4 platform? Is it as smooth as running an Intel? Any quirks? Regrets? Would you do anything different?
> 
> I am running a Z77 system and would like to move into something newer. Years ago I told myself I would have to try AMD again when they are beating Intel again. Looks like the day is here. The last time I ran AMD it was a little quirky.. Performance was excellent, but stability.. eh.. not so much. In these crazy days my money is limited, and I don't want to waste it on a system I may end up regretting. My family uses my computer so the stability isn't just for my sanity. If I did end up rolling with AMD, who makes the most stable boards? I dont mind spending a few bucks if its worth it. I probably wouldn't be going with the newest that's out, but maybe something second gen-ish.
> 
> Thanks!



I just went from an overclocked 6700k to a 5900x.  The performance increase is astounding, both from the 20%+ IPC increase and having 3x as many cores.  For context my R20 multicore score went from 2300 to 8200 and I'm using rubbish slow RAM on the 5900x.

Even puttering around Chrome and Windows is noticeably faster.

Highly recommended.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 28, 2020)

I just scooped a 500GB WD Black SN750 
Just needs a GPU now

And maybe a faster nvme after that..

And then a 5 series??


----------



## newtekie1 (Nov 28, 2020)

freeagent said:


> And maybe a faster nvme after that..



Don't waste your money, you won't notice the difference.


----------



## freeagent (Nov 28, 2020)

I’m hoping Le Grand Macho RT will fit nicely. It should.. my biggest fear is having to use the stock cooler lol 

I just cleaned up my Meshify C so she’s clean and shiny again, Just need some parts to install and I’ll be happier.


----------



## Arjai (Nov 28, 2020)

Good luck! I have 2 2700's running 24/7 100% Crunching World Community Grid. 1 to 1, my 2700 out numbers the T-3500 Dell w/ Xeon 5670 and does it for about 1/2 the power! At the time, the CPU and b450m Aorus MB cost me about the same as one of my T-3500 Workstations. 

I also, recently, built a 3700x, for crunching. It is now motoring along 24/7 @99%, to save a miniscule amount of money, over time. The 3700x though, got an h-60, AIO 120mm liquid cooler, cause air wasn't cutting it. But, like I said, 24/7 99%, You don't probably need that for the 3600x. That is a monster, as you will soon know!

 Best wishes and good luck w/ the build! Have fun!! P.S. I like building them, dare I say, more than using them? IDK, close but, I do love building them up and collecting the parts for it!


----------



## freeagent (Nov 29, 2020)

A bit of a development.. I have a Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT and True Spirit 140 Power, only one came with an AM4 mount. And I am missing one plastic spacer out of four for the AMD mount. Dammit. I did order their bolt through kit for that one plastic spacer lol. Bonus to that is I now have a mount for my Ultra 120 Extreme lol. Le sigh.

So in the mean time I will probably have to use the box cooler. I will wipe their goop off and use my own


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## INSTG8R (Nov 29, 2020)

freeagent said:


> A bit of a development.. I have a Thermalright Le Grand Macho RT and True Spirit 140 Power, only one came with an AM4 mount. And I am missing one plastic spacer out of four for the AMD mount. Dammit. I did order their bolt through kit for that one plastic spacer lol. Bonus to that is I now have a mount for my Ultra 120 Extreme lol. Le sigh.
> 
> So in the mean time I will probably have to use the box cooler. I will wipe their goop off and use my own


I’m on water but I pulled the cooler for  my 3700X out just to have a look and it’s pretty impressive for “stock cooler”


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## freeagent (Nov 29, 2020)

I haven’t pulled it out of the box yet, maybe I should instead of trying to find a picture on google lol. I’m not sure on my fan setup yet for the Meshify. I was going to start with 3 in 1 out. I’ll be using 120x38s so I won’t need many for strong front to rear flow in that tiny case. I could probably just get away with 3 fronts with no exhaust if I’m honest. I’ll have to wait and see how it runs. Using a fan on my LGMRT only gets me 200 useable MHz on my 3770K. I tested with linpack xtreme and can run semi passive up to 4500mhz and with fan can run it at 4700mhz. My ram was supposed to be here today, mobo Tuesday and I’m not sure when the nvme will be here they didn’t give me a number to track. And my mounting kit won’t be here until at least the sixth.


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## INSTG8R (Nov 29, 2020)

freeagent said:


> I haven’t pulled it out of the box yet, maybe I should instead of trying to find a picture on google lol. I’m not sure on my fan setup yet for the Meshify. I was going to start with 3 in 1 out. I’ll be using 120x38s so I won’t need many for strong front to rear flow in that tiny case. I could probably just get away with 3 fronts with no exhaust if I’m honest. I’ll have to wait and see how it runs. Using a fan on my LGMRT only gets me 200 useable MHz on my 3770K. I tested with linpack xtreme and can run semi passive up to 4500mhz and with fan can run it at 4700mhz. My ram was supposed to be here today, mobo Tuesday and I’m not sure when the nvme will be here they didn’t give me a number to track. And my mounting kit won’t be here until at least the sixth.


Definitely use an exhaust.


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## freeagent (Nov 29, 2020)

Oh I will. I used to run 7 fans in that case all of them thick and a TY-143 on the CPU, that case can flow a lot of air if you can move it


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## Deleted member 24505 (Nov 29, 2020)

MikeMurphy said:


> I just went from an overclocked 6700k to a 5900x.  The performance increase is astounding, both from the 20%+ IPC increase and having 3x as many cores.  For context my R20 multicore score went from 2300 to 8200 and I'm using rubbish slow RAM on the 5900x.
> 
> Even puttering around Chrome and Windows is noticeably faster.
> 
> Highly recommended.


So what do you actually use the 3x as many cores for? Probably just gaming and browsing like a lot of ryzen users that witter on about its better because it has more cores(that they don’t even utilise) than Intel cpu’s


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## freeagent (Nov 29, 2020)

I’m going to build an Intel rig too. But probably closer to the summer.. I’m not so sure this setup will scratch my tweaking itch.. it might, but it won’t do 5GHz+


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## oxrufiioxo (Nov 29, 2020)

By then Rocket lake should be out and maybe actually worth buying.


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## freeagent (Nov 29, 2020)

Yup, it’s gonna be good I think


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## freeagent (Nov 30, 2020)

I was looking at an ASRock board and the ram I bought was not on their QVL, they didn't have much from that manufacturer. But on G.Skills site the board showed up on their QVL. The board I ordered has the ram I bought on their QVL and the board I bought is on G.Skills QVL. Ram problems are an adventure I would rather avoid with a brand new system I know nothing about.


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## Sovsefanden (Nov 30, 2020)

I switched to Ryzen 1800X, replaced with 2700X and then switched back to 8700K because of wonky performance in tons of games and especially emulators

Things are looking way better now with 5000 series tho but I am not buying into a dead platform at this point

Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series were all about value/perf, but perf sucked in tons of stuff and clockspeeds were insanely low with all-core OC around 4 GHz (maybe 4.1 for 2000 series on average)

GloFo was (and is) a crappy node, way way worse than Intel 14nm - In reality GloFo 12nm is more like a 18-20nm node. NANOMETER has become a marketing / buzzword in later years, I look at perf



I will be waiting for 2022+ where we will see a leap, Intel will finally answer back with huge IPC uplifts (starting from Q1 2021 but won't get insane before late 21 or 22, we are looking at huge ipc uplifts)

If AMD still are competitive in 2022, I will give them a try, no doubt, but for gaming and emulation, my 8700K at 5.2 GHz simply is better er atleast as good as ANY Ryzen 5000 series, overclocked or not (no headroom on those CPUs)

2022 also means; DDR5 has been out for 1+ years and matured (higher speed, lower latency) + PCI Express 5.0 or 6.0 is out and standard

No reason at all for me to upgrade ANY COMPONENT before 2022

The rear competition starts in 2021, so far AMD has been battling Intel 2015 tech and first with Ryzen 3000 series they became relevant IMO


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## freeagent (Nov 30, 2020)

But nearly every platform from Intel is a dead platform? I mean, you can usually only use 1 generation of CPU before they drop a new one with a new chipset. Sure AM4 is just about dead, but look at the life they got from it. When was the last time Intel did something like that, LGA 775? I'm not knockin Intel, they have been very good to me over the years.

I dunno.. I already paid for it so whatever. Ill try it out and if its awesome Ill keep it, if its not awesome I know I can sell it and get most of my money back.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Nov 30, 2020)

freeagent said:


> I’m going to build an Intel rig too. But probably closer to the summer.. I’m not so sure this setup will scratch my tweaking itch.. it might, but it won’t do 5GHz+



I'm sticking with my 9600k/z390-f till i see what Intel has to offer, i'm in no rush and don't need cores i won't use anyway.


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## EarthDog (Nov 30, 2020)

2 CPUs per chipset, typically. Z490 has two, Z390 supported two... etc...



Sovsefanden said:


> 2022 also means; DDR5 has been out for 1+ years and matured (higher speed, lower latency) + PCI Express 5.0 or 6.0 is out and standard
> 
> No reason at all for me to upgrade ANY COMPONENT before 2022


With this mentality, you'll never upgrade. Because.........DDR6 will be out, PCIe 6... etc....

If you're ready to buy... just buy... (as the OP already did and this post is a day late and dollar short). DDR5 and PCIe 5.0 isn't going to mean squat.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Nov 30, 2020)

freeagent said:


> But nearly every platform from Intel is a dead platform? I mean, you can usually only use 1 generation of CPU before they drop a new one with a new chipset. Sure AM4 is just about dead, but look at the life they got from it. When was the last time Intel did something like that, LGA 775? I'm not knockin Intel, they have been very good to me over the years.
> 
> I dunno.. I already paid for it so whatever. Ill try it out and if its awesome Ill keep it, if its not awesome I know I can sell it and get most of my money back.



Tbh i don't mind buying a new board for a new chip gen, rather thatn using a new chip with a possibly 2 or 3 year old board. Onboard audio gets better so do storage controllers, Lan and USB controllers, so imo having to buy a new board for every new chip is not a minus for me. Just something for AMD fans to whine about.


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## Sovsefanden (Nov 30, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> 2 CPUs per chipset, typically. Z490 has two, Z390 supported two... etc...
> 
> With this mentality, you'll never upgrade. Because.........DDR6 will be out, PCIe 6... etc....
> 
> If you're ready to buy... just buy... (as the OP already did and this post is a day late and dollar short). DDR5 and PCIe 5.0 isn't going to mean squat.



Not really, AM4 is a dead platform now, EoL actually

DDR4 is on the way out too, came out in 2014

Wait for 2022 for DDR5, PCIe5.0+, 5nm AMD on AM5 or their next gen platform and Intel will be on 7nm (comparable to TSMC 5nm)

My crystal ball says so

There's good and bad timse to upgrade



freeagent said:


> But nearly every platform from Intel is a dead platform? I mean, you can usually only use 1 generation of CPU before they drop a new one with a new chipset. Sure AM4 is just about dead, but look at the life they got from it. When was the last time Intel did something like that, LGA 775? I'm not knockin Intel, they have been very good to me over the years.
> 
> I dunno.. I already paid for it so whatever. Ill try it out and if its awesome Ill keep it, if its not awesome I know I can sell it and get most of my money back.



Intel supports 2 gens on a platform, nothing new

AMD were about to do the same thing, but community went crazy

Good luck using a 3000 or 5000 series Ryzen on a cheap 300 chipset board tho, it's a wonky experience for the most part

If you have to upgrade a CPU after 2 years, you bought the wrong chip to begin with. It's that simple. Ryzen 1000 and 2000 series sucked pretty bad if you ask me. 3000 and 5000 are much much better.


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## EarthDog (Nov 30, 2020)

Sovsefanden said:


> My crystal ball says so


Your crystal ball is, well, it's yours, lol. There is absolutely no need right now to wait for DDR5 or PCIe 5.0.  None. PCIe 4.0 bandwidth isn't starved and won't be even with next gen GPUs. RAM bandwidth and speed isn't holding anything back if its running at the platform's max spec or overclocked. So, tell me why we should wait for it again?

That and the OP has already made his purchase so.............


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## Deleted member 24505 (Nov 30, 2020)

PCIe 5 will be more about storage/nvme controllers than GPU’s. by the time it comes along, the controllers will be ready for it.


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## freeagent (Nov 30, 2020)

Well, I am still running 3rd gen i7, I know they last heheh. I didn’t know you get 2 gens per chipset though, pretty cool, and new to me. I’m ok with buying dead hardware for now. It was still cheaper than a midrange Intel build, and my kids will love it cuz it has go fast disco lights  

I’ll build another Intel when the time is right for me.


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## MustSeeMelons (Nov 30, 2020)

Going from a 4670K to a 3600 has been a pleasure. Was not expecting to pay less than I paid for the i5 for so much more performance. 
The only thing that annoys me is that the task manager reads the frequency wrong, other than that everything has been peachy.


----------



## Samiam66 (Nov 30, 2020)

hello all

No complaints here made the switch year ago on 3700 x launch  with X470 Taichi Mb  ..and then built a second one with 2600x Cpu
on X570 phantom Gaming 4  MB ..prior to these had (5)  Hp Z420  Xeon powered  machines 

highly recommend liquid cooling and a good case that can breathe


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## freeagent (Dec 1, 2020)

Got my boot drive today, mobo should be here tomorrow, and not sure when my ram will get here.. it was supposed to be here last Friday, but was coming from the states so maybe by Friday.. not sure.


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## MikeMurphy (Dec 1, 2020)

tigger said:


> So what do you actually use the 3x as many cores for? Probably just gaming and browsing like a lot of ryzen users that witter on about its better because it has more cores(that they don’t even utilise) than Intel cpu’s



I have multiple RTSP streams to my computer and it does H264 encode on all of them in the background 24/7 365.

In addition to this encoding I actually use it for things, so the additional headroom on 12 cores is very much welcomed.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Dec 2, 2020)

MikeMurphy said:


> I have multiple RTSP streams to my computer and it does H264 encode on all of them in the background 24/7 365.
> 
> In addition to this encoding I actually use it for things, so the additional headroom on 12 cores is very much welcomed.


Bit of an exception then, at least you are actually using the cores.


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## Atomic77 (Dec 2, 2020)

Other than my iPhone, ipod and my ipad my laptop is the only other Non Intel device that I use. I believe that for most of my computing life ive been mostly on the side of intel.


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## freeagent (Dec 2, 2020)

Ram came today, shiny 




The board is supposed to be here today too but I have my doubts.. it was coming from Toronto but they had some bad weather yesterday so it might be delayed a day or so.


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## xu^ (Dec 2, 2020)

in the last week i did my 1st build in approx 13 years...

Gone from a 
Q9450@3.2ghz
Asus P5K Premium, socket 775
8gb DDR2 Corsair XMS
GTX 770
Antec 650w 80+ gold (but it was around 4/5 yrs old)

and built probably what most of you would class as outdated 

Ryzen 5 3600
MSI B450 Tomahawk Max
16gb Vengence 3600 ram
GTX 970 (after a GTX 1660 when i can find 1)
Corsair 650w 80+gold

and all i can say is wow!!! at the difference, its night and day.

Most impressed that it all started up on the 1st try with no problems, all in my old and heavily modded Thermaltake Armor case , full sized and is huge, with loads of room and cooling.
Overall im very happy with how it went and the performance ,even on the mediocre GTX970 is amazing, to me anyway.
My 1st AMD CPU since the Athlon 1.4 Thunderbird


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## freeagent (Dec 3, 2020)

Nice man! My board will be here tomorrow hoping for a seamless start too lol


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## Robert Bourgoin (Dec 3, 2020)

Coming back to AMD after my last Intel and Nvidia that crashed way too much.  So on I go back to AMD after a long time. I was a socket A fan and still have my Abit NFS-V2  that runs! I have windows 2000  on it.
I just keep it as a collection piece. Well I haven't messed with AMD since a 939 build. So here is my list of stuff I just purchased yesterday, waiting for it all in a week or so.

G.Skill F4-3600C16D-32GTZRC 2x16GB tridentz rgb series

Socket AM4

AMD Ryzen 9 3950X 16-Core, 32-Thread Unlocked

cooler master Liquid ML360 ARGB close-loop
360 radiotor,triple sickleflow  120mm 3rd generation dual chamber pump

Asus ROG Strix B550-E Gaming AMD AM4 3rd generation Ryzen ATX

Samsung 970 EVO SSD 1TB

WD Black 6TB Sata  6GB/s

XFX RX 6800 16GB GDDR6 2XDP PCIe 4.0

EVGA 1000P2 P/S

Ryybozen USB 3.0 Switch selector
2 in 4 out USB3.0 sharing switch box

Lian Li O11 Dynamic XL ROG Certified (white) ATX Full Tower Gaming Case (O11D XL-W)

Windows Pro 10


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## freeagent (Dec 3, 2020)

My board is on the truck for delivery woot. I almost pulled the trigger on a 500gb sn850, Then I almost pulled the trigger on a 1tb sn750. Both are still in my cart.. I have enough for one or the other. Sigh.

I was worried about those pins for nothing I think. There sure is a lot more than I remember.. last time I saw them was on 939 lol. Everything went together smoothly, and it fired up first boot. Windows installed in about a minute and a half lol. Somewhere around there.. the stock cooler is ok. It works.. I did wipe my photo drive by accident luckily I have a couple of backups. Oops. This thing rips. My Z77 wasn’t horrible either in retrospect.



That little cooler looks so rinkydink compared to my other coolers. Those pins had me sweating, but not as my as screwing down the stock cooler before I mounted to board in the case. The cables are a bit thick in the back but I had limited time before I had to get my kids from school.. I’ll get back to it later


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## Robert Bourgoin (Dec 7, 2020)

Robert Bourgoin said:


> Coming back to AMD after my last Intel and Nvidia that crashed way too much.  So on I go back to AMD after a long time. I was a socket A fan and still have my Abit NFS-V2  that runs! I have windows 2000  on it.
> I just keep it as a collection piece. Well I haven't messed with AMD since a 939 build. So here is my list of stuff I just purchased yesterday, waiting for it all in a week or so.
> 
> G.Skill F4-3600C16D-32GTZRC 2x16GB tridentz rgb series
> ...



I decided to go the Asus  Strix X570-E Gaming instead for the extra lanes,  also adding an M2 4th generation
TEAMGROUP T-Force Cardea Zero Z440 2TB NVMe PCIe Gen4 x4 M.2 2280 Solid State Drive SSD TM8FP7002T0C311 (Read/Write Speed up to 5,000/4,400 MB/s)
And for the Freesync: 32" AOC CQ32G1 Curved Frameless Gaming Monitor, Quad HD 2560x1440, VA panel,4 ns, MPRT,144Hrz, Freesync.

Amazon seller holding back like stealing my money, won't ship probably because he doesn't have anything to ship so on with the show!
Next up-----

GIGABYTE X570 AORUS MASTER AMD Ryzen 3000 PCIe 4.0 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.2 AMD X570 ATX Motherboard


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## Robert Bourgoin (Dec 9, 2020)

Almost got everything, waiting for my motherboard    's
Seems with a little help from Amazon support they lit a fire under the sellers A_S and decided to cooperate and presto my Asus Rog Strix570-E Gaming is one the way from California,
Humm,  problem is I gave up on that seller coming through with the board on time so I went to Newegg and purchased a Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master.
So I have two coming at the same time, same state. Which one am I building with? I really took a likening to the Gigabyte but have never  done a build from them.
Asus many times through the years, Customer service is great with returns and such. No experience with Gigabyte but I am steering that route.
What board would you go with?   Maybe keep both around till one is up and running.


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## Alyjen (Dec 10, 2020)

I went from 6600K on Z170 board to B550 with 5800X. Still waiting for decent card but with with my old GTX 970 things like Borderlands 3 or even Overwatch runs faster, and without any micro shutters or hiccups. 
Platform itself was a bit harder to set up. Memory timings, FCLK stability etc. all this was harder than I remember from Intel platform but also more rewarding  looking forward to pair it with RTX 3080


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## freeagent (Dec 10, 2020)

Sweet man! I think my plan is to give my XT to my boys when 5 series CPU’s are a little more available. I have another 16gb kit of 3200 cl14 coming today maybe pair them with a good budget board and they should be set. I ordered a tube of TFX and it arrived yesterday.. I want to paste up my cpu so I could try to clock it a bit but I don’t want to waste it on a stock cooler and my mount won’t be here for another 10 days. But I will probably pull the cooler off today anyways because I dont really have anything better to do.


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## Alyjen (Dec 10, 2020)

As soon as I'll get my RTX I'm going to get some extra case and build computer for my boys with this old Intel I have, I have enough spare parts now, only missing GPU & case


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## freeagent (Dec 10, 2020)

Nice man, my oldest boy will get the AMD, and my youngest will get my Z77 OC Formula with 3770K. They both like all of the lights.. so I may have to get some RGB accessories for them.


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## AusWolf (Dec 10, 2020)

To be honest, I don't really understand the question.

I came from a Core i7-7700 (non-K) in an ASUS Rog Strix B250i (mini-ITX) board. It was smooth and stable.

I now own an ASUS Tuf Gaming B550M Pro Wifi board and a Ryzen 3 3100 (waiting for a 5950X). It is just as smooth and stable as the previous system was.


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## freeagent (Dec 10, 2020)

AusWolf said:


> To be honest, I don't really understand the question.
> 
> I came from a Core i7-7700 (non-K) in an ASUS Rog Strix B250i (mini-ITX) board. It was smooth and stable.
> 
> I now own an ASUS Tuf Gaming B550M Pro Wifi board and a Ryzen 3 3100 (waiting for a 5950X). It is just as smooth and stable as the previous system was.



Because in the distant past AMD didn't run this nice, at least not for me. I was asking Intel owners who have made the switch how the felt about their experience. It wasn't bait, or anything like that. I rolled with AMD for Socket A, 939, and now AM4. Its been a good experience. I had money to buy a pc, and I remembered seeing how some guys weren't happy and went back. I didn't want to waste my money on a frustration box. I'm too old for that shit. No I'm not too old, I just didn't want to deal with bs. Myself, I haven't built a new pc since X58 was new, my last pc was Z77 that I got as a hand me down.

Side note: my TIM came in today and knocked 12c off my normal temps, I haven't put a load on it yet, just got it all back together. CPU stayed in the socket too.. yay! 

Edit:

I have my fan on turbo so I know it'll rev up to 3600 or so.. I did get it to spin.. but.. it doesn't constantly spool like it used to. I guess I only had about 1/3 of the IHS covered. I've got some TFX now, but its a bit thick to work with.. takes a bit longer.. I like a little more smoosh to it if I'm honest. Ill order some more TF8 on payday


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## AusWolf (Dec 10, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Because in the distant past AMD didn't run this nice, at least not for me. I was asking Intel owners who have made the switch how the felt about their experience. It wasn't bait, or anything like that. I rolled with AMD for Socket A, 939, and now AM4. Its been a good experience. I had money to buy a pc, and *I remembered seeing how some guys weren't happy and went back*. I didn't want to waste my money on a frustration box. I'm too old for that shit. No I'm not too old, I just didn't want to deal with bs. Myself, I haven't built a new pc since X58 was new, my last pc was Z77 that I got as a hand me down.
> 
> Side note: my TIM came in today and knocked 12c off my normal temps, I haven't put a load on it yet, just got it all back together. CPU stayed in the socket too.. yay!


Personally, I think it's placebo. I've owned Intel starting from a Celeron 300 MHz from the Pentium 2 era, through various Core 2 Duos, Core i3s and i7s (the latest one being the 7700 non-K), and AMD as well: Athlon 64, FX-8000, now Zen 2, soon Zen 3. None of these left any negative taste in my mouth. The only negative feeling I had was with of performance: the FX was extremely slow in single-core use (e.g. games), and even though my first ever Celeron was blazing fast in its first year, it suffered even with next year's games - together with the 4 MB S3 Virge graphics card it was paired with that only ran DirectX 7.


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## freeagent (Dec 10, 2020)

The part you highlighted was guys talking about chipset/memory issues, at least by the sounds of it. Which is what I had when I ran 939. No problems with Socket A.. probably was my OCZ ram lol. So far out of the box this thing is pretty good, no complaints. Much faster at just about everything than my 3770K is, that's not placebo.. that is a fact. But I would expect that after nearly a decade of using the same hardware.


----------



## AusWolf (Dec 10, 2020)

freeagent said:


> The part you highlighted was guys talking about chipset/memory issues, at least by the sounds of it. Which is what I had when I ran 939. No problems with Socket A.. probably was my OCZ ram lol. So far out of the box this thing is pretty good, no complaints. Much faster at just about everything than my 3770K is, that's not placebo.. that is a fact. But I would expect that after nearly a decade of using the same hardware.


Ah I see. Well, my nvidia nforce 150 chipset for the Athlon 64 ran extremely hot, and it was quite picky with RAM. Though I wouldn't attribute this flaw to AMD, rather than nvidia making terrible motherboard chipsets (no wonder they've left that business).


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## sil3ntearth (Dec 10, 2020)

I built my wife and sister 1st gen. ryzen systems when it came out and so far the biggest issue has been RAM, that and my wife's motherboard is a piece of crap and seems to have constant USB power issues.  

If I were building a ryzen system today the two things I'd focus most of my effort researching is RAM and motherboard.  I don't feel I have to be as picky on Intel systems outside of making sure they have the features you want.


----------



## freeagent (Dec 10, 2020)

sil3ntearth said:


> I built my wife and sister 1st gen. ryzen systems when it came out and so far the biggest issue has been RAM, that and my wife's motherboard is a piece of crap and seems to have constant USB power issues.
> 
> If I were building a ryzen system today the two things I'd focus most of my effort researching is RAM and motherboard.  I don't feel I have to be as picky on Intel systems outside of making sure they have the features you want.


Lol I hear you man. Sorry to hear.

Honestly, I checked the QVL at Asus and G.Skill they said yep we work together and I said ok. I think the test will come tomorrow.. I bought a kit of F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW and I will attempt to run them together at their rated speeds   

If they don't play nice its not a big deal.. I'm going to get a lower end board for this CPU and that ram for my boys to use with my GTX 980 until they cant use it.


----------



## Deleted member 193596 (Dec 10, 2020)

i swapped my 10850k for a 5800x (i had a lot of AMD Hardware in the last ten years)

so far the experience is great.

it sucks less power in AVX2 Prime95 (with PBO and no powerlimits) than my i9 while loading a game..
and with my current PBO settings i see around 4850 Mhz while playing games (all core) and single core boosts up to 5050 Mhz.


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## freeagent (Dec 11, 2020)

That's awesome man. I want a new CPU but they are pretty tough to come by right now. Looks like I'm hooked on hardware again lol. Just gotta wait for stock to roll in anytime now would be nice..


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## sil3ntearth (Dec 11, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Lol I hear you man. Sorry to hear.
> 
> Honestly, I checked the QVL at Asus and G.Skill they said yep we work together and I said ok. I think the test will come tomorrow.. I bought a kit of F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW and I will attempt to run them together at their rated speeds
> 
> If they don't play nice its not a big deal.. I'm going to get a lower end board for this CPU and that ram for my boys to use with my GTX 980 until they cant use it.



Yeah, I mean, basically since launch they've been ok with G.Skill Trident RAM.  I remember building one that Asus sent parts for at my last job.  1st generation promotion system.  Man that PC was a bitch to get working right.  Still gives me nightmares.  I'll probably wait until the next generation stuff comes out and build my wife a new system with the 5000 series stuff.  That 1700x is getting long in the tooth for all the video work she does.


----------



## NoJuan999 (Dec 11, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Honestly, I checked the QVL at Asus and G.Skill they said yep we work together and I said ok. I think the test will come tomorrow.. I bought a kit of F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW and I will attempt to run them together at their rated speeds
> 
> If they don't play nice its not a big deal.. I'm going to get a lower end board for this CPU and that ram for my boys to use with my GTX 980 until they cant use it.


I have been using the G.Skill Configurator to check compatibility with Ryzen systems for the last few years and it has been reliable for me so far.
That F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW is listed as compatible with your B550-F and 3600XT so I would expect it to work fine.
That will depend on your BIOS of course, some BIOS versions are better than others for RAM speeds / OCing.
RAM Configurator-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


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## freeagent (Dec 11, 2020)

I wouldn’t be too heart broken if they didnt mix well. I bought it for my boys build, that’s the start. Once the new AMD CPU’s are readily available I will get one for myself and a cheap board for my boys to use with this XT. The letter carrier came and went already, but I saw the can post parcel delivery guy a couple of streets over on my way to get some Tim Hortons for breakfast. So I might get those sticks today.. fingers crossed.


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## DR4G00N (Dec 11, 2020)

freeagent said:


> I wouldn’t be too heart broken if they didnt mix well. I bought it for my boys build, that’s the start. Once the new AMD CPU’s are readily available I will get one for myself and a cheap board for my boys to use with this XT. The letter carrier came and went already, but I saw the can post parcel delivery guy a couple of streets over on my way to get some Tim Hortons for breakfast. So I might get those sticks today.. fingers crossed.


I'd be surprised if they didn't work together considering they're identical kits other than the heatsink (that's assuming they have the same pcb layout). F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW is a pretty old model so it may have A0 or A2 depending on whether it's new or old production. I run the same kit in my rig, works great.


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## heinztvoert (Dec 11, 2020)

I switched over from an i7-2600k, 32gb Ram. There was nothing wrong with the system it was getting noticeable slow with PS, Premiere.  Switched over the a Ryzen7 3800X with a MSI x570 Tomahawk. The system is way better and programs run smoother, even with16 GB Ram.

I would have to say tho, the biggest difference are the M2 drives. Before I could go get coffee, and make breakfast and computer was still booting. Now, I turn power on and bingo, up and running in few seconds. 

Reason I went Ryzen was simply, for me, cost/benefit. Got really good deal on parts. and honestly, Intel/Ryzen - which is faster, etc. for my needs I am not into gaming so a few micro seconds does not really make much of a difference.

The Ryzen does run a heck of a lot cooler with my AIO than my older INTEL did on air. So that is a bonus.


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## jsf67 (Dec 11, 2020)

I recently built a computer for myself from parts and chose the Ryzen 7 3800X 8-Core 3.89GHz.  Over many computers I built and/or selected for myself, for relatives, and/or for work, this is the first time in decades that I selected AMD.  I think the way I use a computer increases the significance of CPU cache size (compared to more typical uses).  The price performance advantage of this AMD was even higher for cache size than the probable price performance advantage in less understandable comparison factors (that I tried and failed to research).  I haven't had a decent speed computer for such a long time before this that I have no meaningful comparison.  So I'm happy so far as I know with this CPU choice, but I wouldn't really know.
I also chose an MSI Gaming Radeon RX 5500 XT after almost all my previous experience was Nvidia.  I'm unhappy and trying to decide whether these issues are worth the trouble/cost of buying something else without black friday discounts and returning this.  It is also hard to figure out which parts to blame.  Some of the faults clearly belong to my new Acer displays, because I can compare across computers/displays.  Other faults (most faults overall) seem to be display driver bugs, but some of those could actually be issues with the new Acer monitors, and some could be Windows 10 bugs and some could be display card defects.  It can be very hard to sort out which part is at fault.
I'm using four 2560x1440 displays together as one big desktop.  One minor fault example is that maximizing a window on one display shows trash on the bottom of the display above it (while setting the window to exactly the same size and position as maximized but not set as maximized, does not have the same problem).  Lots of comments on the same problem online say it is a Windows 10 bug.  But I had one display above another on a few different Windows 10 computers (including a super slow one I still own and retested).  I never saw this problem before.  All those other systems were Nvidia, so I conclude Radeon driver bug.


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## tabascosauz (Dec 11, 2020)

@freeagent I think you can ask a mod to open up the first post and title for you to edit indefinitely. 

Despite you having already built your PC people are going to keep chiming in here without reading any of it   

That is, only if you want to keep it as your personal build thread.


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## freeagent (Dec 11, 2020)

DR4G00N said:


> I'd be surprised if they didn't work together considering they're identical kits other than the heatsink (that's assuming they have the same pcb layout). F4-3200C14D-16GTZKW is a pretty old model so it may have A0 or A2 depending on whether it's new or old production. I run the same kit in my rig, works great.


Nice man, I hope they work too to be honest.. they probably will.. but like you said they are a bit older. I mean 3200 CL14 isnt terrible.. if I cant get them to run Ill be happy until a GPU upgrade or maybe another NVME.. If they do run nicely well I guess I will have to get my boys some different ram 



tabascosauz said:


> @freeagent I think you can ask a mod to open up the first post and title for you to edit indefinitely.
> 
> Despite you having already built your PC people are going to keep chiming in here without reading any of it
> 
> That is, only if you want to keep it as your personal build thread.


Indeed, that's a good idea! I didn't know that could be done..


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## Gmr_Chick (Dec 12, 2020)

@freeagent -- ah! There are others like me who overthink parts for a build! I don't feel so alone now  

At the beginning of this year, I was wanting to upgrade my 1st gen Ryzen build to a 3000 series, and slap in a 5700 XT. Ended up buying a 3600 and the first of two motherboards, the Crosshair VIII Hero. For reasons I'm still trying to figure out to this day, I couldn't get the damn thing to display a picture everytime I fired it up, so that meant I couldn't even get into the BIOS, as I couldn't see anything. Just a black screen, even though things were clearly running. Long story short, the issue persisted on the 2nd board (returned the Hero and used the Amazon gift balance), the X570 AORUS Master. Anyway, after literally spending months -- about half the year -- trying to get my rig up and running with no luck, I made the tough call to forgo Ryzen and switched to Intel, the 10700K paired with a GTX 1660 Super. 

And ya know what? Call me crazy (wouldn't be the first time I've heard it) but damn it, I miss Ryzen! My first-ever DIY rig was based around the FX "Faildozer" series, so in a sense I have a soft spot in my heart for AMD, I guess. To put it in the oft-used car terms, the switch to Intel, for me, is like a life long Ford owner having to switch to driving a Chevy, for whatever reason. Know what I mean? I can almost hear my dad, who WAS a life-long Ford lover/driver, right now: "Why'd you get THAT for?"  

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it IS possible to be unhappy with something like the 10700K for the simple fact that it doesn't "feel right" to you. Desperation, however, makes you do things you wouldn't normally do. I dunno...maybe I really am THAT weird, lol.


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## freeagent (Dec 12, 2020)

I do tend to overthink things occasionally.. my mom and my wife bug me at times lol 

Aww sorry to hear you had a lot of trouble! Almost sounds like a GPU thing, had something like that with an old GTX 295.. some kind of weird compatibility thing. I almost feel guilty for saying this but.. it almost feels like an Intel system, but without the ease of overclocking, oh an the familiarity.. I'm genuinely surprised. I haven't even had a bluescreen yet.. oh wait yeah I did. My fault though. This thing has shut off on me a couple of times, but I was running the memory too fast and tight, so my fault again.

I don't think your crazy, building a frustration box is no fun. Intel is usually pretty good right out of the box, borderline boring even.. I like your analogy because I am a Chevy guy who will probably never buy another Chevy lol. Junk.

Well, if you ever have a change of heart, I could recommend the board I am using right now. Its not that fancy, but it seems to be pretty good. I hear you on the desperation front. One weekend I bought an AMD 4200 to clock, I already had a 4400 but these were supposed to be good clockers. I lost my Asus board and my Abit board that weekend, just got the Abit back from RMA.. so pissed. That was the weekend I moved to Intel lol with an E6300 and a P5B Deluxe Wi-Fi. Haven't looked back till now!


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## freeagent (Dec 23, 2020)

Well, my ram arrived about 9 days late, better than never I reckon.. Anywhoo, its B-Die like my Royals, but they cant run nearly as tight. I have them paired up right now and can run tight 14-14-14-34 1T @ 1600, but after that gotta loosen up a bit. Those Royals can do 1900 14-15-15-35 1T 1.45v. Those Black and Whites prefer things slightly looser. To be fair, I have not run them on their own yet, so I am not sure what they can do. I saw a review on them on OCF and looks like they can do well over 4K with looser timings. Woomack is awesome. In TB they show as pretty much the same sticks, the only outside of the model number is the B+W have a 6 where the Gold has a 4. Science! YA!

Both pairs are currently running @ 1900 16-15-15-36 1T 1.45v









Edit:

I had to get in the bios to tweak a bit since latency took a bit of a hit with 4 sticks.. I managed to get it stable with all four sticks at 1800 14-15-15-35 1T 1.4v with the latency I had before.. could still use some fine tuning but for now its great. Still waiting on my mount for my cooler. Thinking about just buying a cooler.. but.. well see.


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## freeagent (Dec 27, 2020)

Well, I haven't gotten the mount for my cooler yet. I ordered it on the sixth.. Amazon will give it till the ninth and I can ask for my money back. So... gotta say this thing is pretty boring lol. It’s pretty strong.. but man what a snooze fest. I haven’t tried to push the CPU yet because this cooler is stretched pretty thin even with a bunch of cfm from my Meshify. Not sure what to do without my Le Grand Macho lol. I played with the ram a little.. can run 1900 1:1 but I’m a chicken and didn’t give more than 1.45v on the stix. I haven’t played with cpu clocking other than pbo. Overall I’m still pretty impressed with it. It’s a solid platform I think. I wanted a Vermeer but probably won’t be getting one for a bit.. I also want a new gpu but looks like that won’t be happening for a bit too. I did order a 1TB SN750 last night. I was so torn between the speed of a 500gb SN850 and the space of the 1tb SN750. The TB was cheaper. Oh well. I could always stuff it in a pcie adapter later.. but I guess that’s enough rambling for now..

Edit:

Well maybe its not a snooze fest.. 115x was a snooze fest lol. At least with this I can dig in and play.


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