# EVGA NU Audio Sound Card



## Inle (Mar 6, 2019)

EVGA surprised just about everyone by releasing a high-end PCIe sound card, a product from a category many consider as good as dead. We thoroughly tested the NU Audio with a wide range of headphones and speakers, and saw truly amazing results and were blown away by its amazing performance.

*Show full review*


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 6, 2019)

Share the results 24-bit/96 please. 

One channel acts weird, your wires are ok? Tried swapping them to deduce that out? The ADC performance looks bad. Really AK5572, it should do more... there's a derp somewhere. Will look more in the evening after job.


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## Prima.Vera (Mar 6, 2019)

So no 5.1 analogs, no mini HDMI output...
*Useless* card for gaming or a surround system, sorry.


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## tomfuegue (Mar 6, 2019)

Great analysis, but I have a question, which sound card is better to listen to music from the computer in a very good headphones (Meze 99) or from good monitors like the JBL LSR305?.

Thanks.


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## Inle (Mar 6, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> Share the results 24-bit/96 please. One channel acts weird, your wires are ok? Tried swapping them to deduce that out? The ADC performance looks bad. Really AK5572, it should do more... there's a derp somewhere. Will look more in the evening after job.



Here you go, a full 24-bit/96 kHz report:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhnym7yihumabl9/NU Audio 24 96.zip?dl=0

My cables are definitely OK, I'm using good quality AudioQuest and Fisual cables. Tried both while doing the RMAA loopback tests.



tomfuegue said:


> Great analysis, but I have a question, which sound card is better to listen to music from the computer in a very good headphones (Meze 99) or from good monitors like the JBL LSR305?.
> Thanks.



Not sure if I understood your question mate, could you clarify? If you're wondering if this is a good sound card to give you the best that the Meze 99s have to offer (love those headphones BTW, especially in the Massdrop-only "Noir" variant ), then the answer is yes, with the EVGA NU Audio you'll make the most out of your headphones. I can't think of an another consumer-grade sound card that would be as good for stereo music.


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 6, 2019)

Inle said:


> Here you go, a full 24-bit/96 kHz report:
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhnym7yihumabl9/NU Audio 24 96.zip?dl=0



Well thanks. I meant swapping Right and Left channel. It is a RCA plug, so you can poke around and then see what happens in the graph. It it swaps, then the fault is in the DAC, if not then the ADC.


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## The Quim Reaper (Mar 6, 2019)

And yet with no backplate and for purely aesthetic reasons....I don't want it in my system


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## bug (Mar 6, 2019)

tomfuegue said:


> Great analysis, but I have a question, which sound card is better to listen to music from the computer in a very good headphones (Meze 99) or from good monitors like the JBL LSR305?.
> 
> Thanks.


I always advocate for external DACs (whether in USB or more standalone form). That way you don't have to deal with noise from within the case. I got me a Dragonfly Red for that. And at home I still go through my DVD (yup) player to decode what's coming out TOSLINK.

Also, iFi is Asian now?


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## goodeedidid (Mar 6, 2019)

2004 called, they want their sound cards back.


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## Assimilator (Mar 6, 2019)

NU = No U?


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## Fx (Mar 6, 2019)

I think I just found the first sound card to make me actually want to buy a sound card in over a decade. Seriously.


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## Joss (Mar 6, 2019)

I'd like to see pics of the card without the shroud, is that possible?


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## Totally (Mar 6, 2019)

Joss said:


> I'd like to see pics of the card without the shroud, is that possible?


 Bare pcb picture can be found in the announcement thread from a few weeks back.


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## murkyincident (Mar 6, 2019)

Prima.Vera said:


> So no 5.1 analogs, no mini HDMI output...
> *Useless* card for gaming or a surround system, sorry.


Actually, it's even worse than that (for now). Drivers for this sound card don't actually support SPDIF passthru for Dolby/DTS, despite the spec sheet claiming 5.1 support. If you try to pass Dolby/DTS through the card's optical out, you get silence or an error message. EVGA is supposedly working on a fix, possibly arriving in a couple weeks. 

Currently, this card is useless for surround, full stop.


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 6, 2019)

Prima.Vera said:


> So no 5.1 analogs, no mini HDMI output...
> *Useless* card for gaming or a surround system, sorry.



Yeah. I mean its not like the top end logitech 5.1 speaker sets or entry level 5.1 home theater setups dont have  optical am i right?

Some higher tier 2.1 setups have optical too. but those arent cheap. Im sure nobody games on headphones either* /S*


In any case, I cant remember the last time (or the first time) i heard of any soundcard coming with a mini HDMi port. I remember Auzentech and Asus made cards with HDMi ports for audio but those were discontinued some  years ago. I dont even think Asus or creative cards come with one for the same price.


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 6, 2019)

The card is poorly designed, lack of engineering experience? I might have tried putting the card in another PCIe slot further from GPU or PSU. There should be some sort of catch, like sucking some stray EMI. Or the card is a dud.

A simple comparison, took my old saved results. First one is the EVGA, second my ZxR and the third is a PCM1794A based Dual Mono external DAC. 24/96, as we see 50Hz mains ripple reeks in doing external device test while using ADC of the internal card. I have an external ADC coupled via optical, so it is electrically isolated, but I am too lazy, as the plot doesn't differ that lot.

What we see? Creative has pulled every bit from PCM1794A and doesn't suffer being inside the PC as many glorify external DAC's(it's better only by a fraction), it doesn't matter, there are really bad devices everywhere, just pick your poison. Latter both has the same signature distortions, the Texan DAC does it  by design for everyone, and cannot be rid of. Sill the AK4493EQ doesn't win versus a Texas Instruments device made around 2004. You can flush those 384kHz/32-bit modes like fake news, as it doesn't deliver better even on 24/96. Harsh, yea I am kinda sorry, but that's the data.

Personally I don't need to read the listening experience, I just need these graphs. If the ADC is working right. The card is overly bright, harsh due to sporadic distortion behavior, as a result of some rising noise past 3K, that's pretty unusual sight, right channel goes haywire even more and that's a HW fault(ADC or DAC part, I am guessing here). Someone may like it actually, if the headphones are with less sensitivity at the highs none will bat an eye. The results are really worse than Samsung Galaxy S8 mobile phone lol, but it ain't bad by any means, because phone outputs are lately pretty acceptable, I've attached result zip for the curious ones. Shame I've lost Xonar STXII results also, it died few months ago anyways, they were a bit better in some places, traded blows, because slightly different IC also.

MY RESUME - 
For this damn price? I say this card is rubbish basing on the data we have here. Sorry EVGA, it is not worth more than 50$.


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## murkyincident (Mar 6, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> The card is poorly designed, lack of engineering experience? I might have tried putting the card in another PCIe slot further from GPU or PSU. There should be some sort of catch, like sucking some stray EMI. Or the card is a dud.


Someone posted some RMAA results on EVGA's own review forum...
Not sure if I can post links, but here it goes: https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2925931

TBH, I don't know how to interpret those charts, but it seems to be less noisy  (-111dB) than the one reviewed here?


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 6, 2019)

murkyincident said:


> Someone posted some RMAA results on EVGA's own review forum...
> Not sure if I can post links, but here it goes: https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2925931
> 
> TBH, I don't know how to interpret those charts, but it seems to be less noisy  (-111dB) than the one reviewed here?



The results are botched, almost like both have equalizer on. The RMAA conclusions like good, excellent are useless... the floor has to be flat, test signal without harmonics etc it is not that hard. The spectrum is very broad, it depends, like bunch of small errors, or like two very hard loud distorting errors? What's worse? If mathematically looks same. But we hear those few spikes in pain more. You have to see the plots.

I have found a STX result in the net. I had pretty similar results with the card... thanks to the original sharer, whoever he may be.


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## gasolina (Mar 6, 2019)

is it better than a blaster x7 + burson v5i upgrade in term of music for stereo speakers set up or headphones ?


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## FreedomEclipse (Mar 6, 2019)

gasolina said:


> blaster x7



I would honestly stick with the X7 unless you want to mod the EVGA with Bursons


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## bug (Mar 6, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> The card is poorly designed, lack of engineering experience? I might have tried putting the card in another PCIe slot further from GPU or PSU. There should be some sort of catch, like sucking some stray EMI. Or the card is a dud.
> 
> A simple comparison, took my old saved results. First one is the EVGA, second my ZxR and the third is a PCM1794A based Dual Mono external DAC. 24/96, as we see 50Hz mains ripple reeks in doing external device test while using ADC of the internal card. I have an external ADC coupled via optical, so it is electrically isolated, but I am too lazy, as the plot doesn't differ that lot.
> 
> ...





murkyincident said:


> Someone posted some RMAA results on EVGA's own review forum...
> Not sure if I can post links, but here it goes: https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/2925931
> 
> TBH, I don't know how to interpret those charts, but it seems to be less noisy  (-111dB) than the one reviewed here?


But that just the thing about internal sound cards. They'll work fine for many people. But once in a blue moon they'll not like some components inside your case (it can be something as simple as a wire) and boy does that suck when it happens.


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## Mescalamba (Mar 6, 2019)

Can be some interference from mobo or PSU. Audio is picky about this.

Mostly the Win 10 is biggest obstacle in getting good audio.. :/


There should be PSU listed in the article.


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## Vario (Mar 7, 2019)

bug said:


> But that just the thing about internal sound cards. They'll work fine for many people. But once in a blue moon they'll not like some components inside your case (it can be something as simple as a wire) and boy does that suck when it happens.


Had that problem but fixed it with a $5 SYBA SD-CM-UAUD.  It all sounds the same to me.  No ground loop now though.


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## Metroid (Mar 7, 2019)

I wonder how this fares x the Asus Xonar Essence STX and does anybody know if soundcards like this or the Asus xonar are better to drive lets say a hifiman 4xx better than amps/dacs?

Asus Xonar essence has the "
*High quality DAC*
The Burr-Brown PCM 1792A Digital-to-Analog Convertor (DAC) converts signals at 127dB signal-to-noise ratio.
*Swappable OPA Sockets*
Tune up your unique sound - OPAMP sockets allow simple, solder-less alteration for user-preferred sound color.
"
The marketing headline says "*124 dB SNR / Headphone Amp card for Audiophiles* "

"Equipping the *Xonar Essence STX* with the best components and the finest design, the *STX* delivers a top-of-the-line audio experience with a 124 dB SNR rating. With a built-in *headphone amp* that can power *headphones* up to 600 ohms and 6.3 mm *headphone* jacks, the *STX* makes a perfect pair with high-end *headphones*. "

https://www.asus.com/us/Sound-Cards/Xonar_Essence_STX/

I have a denon AH-d5000 and together with the xonar is really good. I wonder if it would be better with an dedicated proper headphone amp or if the xonar essence would do just good.

some references, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/xonar-essence-stx-as-headphone-amp.436613/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/better-external-dac-amp-than-essence-stx.683474/

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/3l5kiz


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## Mistral (Mar 7, 2019)

So... that EVGA or an RX-V385?


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## Prima.Vera (Mar 7, 2019)

This was the last best sound card ever produced from all points of view:






Has everything that's needed.


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## SetsunaFZero (Mar 7, 2019)

Prima.Vera said:


> This was the last best sound card ever produced from all points of view:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

I have an old Creative Xfi Ti from 2008. Some months ago i replaced all Cap due to ageing failure.
Next I'm gonna try this mod https://www.head-fi.org/threads/almis-x-fi-mod-hotrodding-sound-blaster-x-fi-models.589078/


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## hat (Mar 7, 2019)

Prima.Vera said:


> This was the last best sound card ever produced from all points of view:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Still using mine. Mostly because my soundbar's optical input is now used by my ps3, and I wanted higher quality analog output to the soundbar from my PC. Maybe it saves a few CPU cycles on sound processing as well? Not sure.


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## Inle (Mar 7, 2019)

Mescalamba said:


> Can be some interference from mobo or PSU. Audio is picky about this.
> Mostly the Win 10 is biggest obstacle in getting good audio.. :/
> There should be PSU listed in the article.



My PSU is the Asus ROG Thor 1200P, basically a Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum with beefier heatsinks, quieter fan and some RGB/OLED display nonsense. The sound card is as far from the graphics card as it can possibly be. It's very hard to determine what's causing the buzzing on the mic input or why certain plots look like they do. That's one of the reasons why I'd much rather spend 100+ hours doing A-B testing and comparing than do a 1 minute RMAA test and draw all of my conclusions from that. I ran across a DAC/amp with mediocre measurements but great actual sound quality more than once. Having said that, I'd never say anything bad about someone who's focusing strictly on measurements - I absolutely understand and appreciate your point of view. For what it's worth, the EVGA NU Audio sound card is now my go-to choice for all of my headphones, even though I have some pretty nice external DAC/amps (mentioned in the review) sitting on my table. The NU Audio just drives my headphones better than any of them.



Metroid said:


> I wonder how this fares x the Asus Xonar Essence STX and does anybody know if soundcards like this or the Asus xonar are better to drive lets say a hifiman 4xx better than amps/dacs?



I have both the Asus Xonar Essence STX and the HiFiMan HE4XX. EVGA's NU Audio has more power and makes the headphones sound better than the Xonar Essence STX. I actually wrote about my experience with those exact headphones and the NU Audio in my review:

_It's not all about the power, though. The sound produced by the EVGA NU Audio is crystal clear even at very high volumes, with rich dynamics, a great balance of depth and bite, and wonderful musicality. When the sound card is combined with a good pair of headphones, you're in for a real treat. But there's hope even if your headphones of choice are lacking in some department because of he 10-band equalizer offered within the NU Audio software driver. The equalizer is handled by the xMOS xCORE-200 DSP. One particular pair of headphones I own, the Massdrop-exclusive HiFiMan HE4XX, are excellent in almost every regard, but they don't go as low or hit as hard in the bass region as I'd like. At the same time, their planar magnetic drivers respond very well to equalization; it's very hard to get them to distort regardless of what you do with the equalizer. Thanks to that, the EVGA NU Audio allowed me to permanently tune those headphones to my liking, effectively giving me an even better pair of headphones I now enjoy using even more. _



Mistral said:


> So... that EVGA or an RX-V385?



Now that's quite a dilemma  What do you plan to use it for? The NU Audio sound card has a better headphone output (I'm comparing it to the RX-V483, which I own). The RX-V385 has more features but it's a completely different type of product. For a living room, where you'll likely use passive hi-fi speakers and connect your AV receiver with your TV/STB/Chromecast, RX-V385 all the way. The YPAO calibration can do some nice things in terms of room correction as well. For PC usage, I'd stick with the NU Audio, even though I'm writing this from my office, with the RX-V483 sitting on the table next to me and driving my (passive) speakers


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## Mescalamba (Mar 7, 2019)

Inle said:


> My PSU is the Asus ROG Thor 1200P, basically a Seasonic Prime Ultra Platinum with beefier heatsinks, quieter fan and some RGB/OLED display nonsense.



Based on tests also worse in everything. I sincerely doubt they improved filtering, more like other way around. :/

Would definitely try it with different PSU. Or different PCIe slots.



Metroid said:


> I wonder how this fares x the Asus Xonar Essence STX and does anybody know if soundcards like this or the Asus xonar are better to drive lets say a hifiman 4xx better than amps/dacs?
> 
> Asus Xonar essence has the "
> *High quality DAC*
> ...



If you want to game with 3D sound, then its Creative or nothing.

If you dont need that, then maybe. But word of advice, ASUS has horrible drivers and even modded ones solve only a bit of issues. Best sound solution for PC will be most likely DAC outside PC.

I do have Xonar Essence STX and I do like (really like) sound output, but drivers and overall issues.. unsure if its really worth it. Also it has slight heat problems, if you dont have enough ventilation near it. It develops over time (year or so). Definitely bit of moving air towards it is helpful.


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## 15th Warlock (Mar 7, 2019)

Prima.Vera said:


> This was the last best sound card ever produced from all points of view:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Still have mine, it’s useful when gaming with headphones, it has true 7.1 analog outputs 



https://img.techpowerup.org/190109/20190109-081112.jpg

It doesn’t look out of place next to an RTX 2080 Ti if you ask me


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## Mistral (Mar 7, 2019)

Mescalamba said:


> If you want to game with 3D sound, then its Creative or nothing.


I'm sorry, when was the last time any game did anything sound specific to Creative? And I'm someone still running an Auzentech Forte.


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## Metroid (Mar 7, 2019)

Inle said:


> I have both the Asus Xonar Essence STX and the HiFiMan HE4XX. EVGA's NU Audio has more power and makes the headphones sound better than the Xonar Essence STX. I actually wrote about my experience with those exact headphones and the NU Audio in my review:
> 
> _It's not all about the power, though. The sound produced by the EVGA NU Audio is crystal clear even at very high volumes, with rich dynamics, a great balance of depth and bite, and wonderful musicality. When the sound card is combined with a good pair of headphones, you're in for a real treat. But there's hope even if your headphones of choice are lacking in some department because of he 10-band equalizer offered within the NU Audio software driver. The equalizer is handled by the xMOS xCORE-200 DSP. One particular pair of headphones I own, the Massdrop-exclusive HiFiMan HE4XX, are excellent in almost every regard, but they don't go as low or hit as hard in the bass region as I'd like. At the same time, their planar magnetic drivers respond very well to equalization; it's very hard to get them to distort regardless of what you do with the equalizer. Thanks to that, the EVGA NU Audio allowed me to permanently tune those headphones to my liking, effectively giving me an even better pair of headphones I now enjoy using even more. _



I checked the specs and from what I saw, the evga nu audio seems much better than the xonar essence, component wise and sound wise, overall it looks a much better product, its an updated hardware product and this is good cause asus will have to do something to improve to compete x it. I purchased the asus xonar essence stx when it was launched in 2009 - 2010.

This is a good reference for people to understand onboard x dedicated sound card.

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/high-end-pc-audio,review-32894-11.html


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## MrAMD (Mar 7, 2019)

No backplate EVGA? Was ready to upgrade / sidegrade from my current Creative sound card purely due to aesthetic reasons.


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## SetsunaFZero (Mar 7, 2019)

15th Warlock said:


> Still have mine, it’s useful when gaming with headphones, it has true 7.1 analog outputs
> View attachment 118181
> https://img.techpowerup.org/190109/20190109-081112.jpg
> 
> It doesn’t look out of place next to an RTX 2080 Ti if you ask me


Put the sound card in the lowest PCI-e slot possible. The heat from your Gfx card will dry up the capacitors on your soundcard, you will first notice failed caps by clipping and cracking audio. That's the reason i had to replace all my capacitors on my xfi Ti. cheers


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## CityCultivator (Mar 8, 2019)

16bit/48KHz sampling rate is an important metric - Windows spatial audio API outputs at that sampling rate.
That means that any game on PC with Dolby Atmos for Headphones is affected by 16bit/48KHz.
Some additional testing for 16bit/48KHz with possible added Dolby Atmos for Headphones might be a useful addition for the review.


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## yeeeeman (Mar 8, 2019)

Nice name. NU Audio means no audio in my language...
So why would I pay money for no audio?


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## bug (Mar 8, 2019)

yeeeeman said:


> Nice name. NU Audio means no audio in my language...
> So why would I pay money for no audio?


Maybe in case you want to listen to the sound of silence?  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sound_of_Silence)


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## kilis (Mar 8, 2019)

Hi Inle, thanks for the review,

İ have Asus essence stx2  card and i am planning to purchase Adam A7X active speaker and connect it to asus with unbalanced rca cables.
Assuming you did same with Evga and Adam A7x during the listening test,
Did you experience any noise,hiss or similar unpleasant sound from Adam speakers due to unbalanced connection ?


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## Slacker (Mar 9, 2019)

I wonder how this would stack up against the Sound blaster zxr w/ Burson V6 vivids


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## Kovoet (Mar 9, 2019)

Look even nicer with a back plate


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## Prima.Vera (Mar 11, 2019)

Mistral said:


> I'm sorry, when was the last time any game did anything sound specific to Creative? And I'm someone still running an Auzentech Forte.


I might be wrong, but the latest Metro:Exodus is using Dolby Atmos tech via Hardware OpenAL. 
And it's the best sounding game I've played in the past 10 years.


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## CityCultivator (Mar 11, 2019)

Prima.Vera said:


> I might be wrong, but the latest Metro:Exodus is using Dolby Atmos tech via Hardware OpenAL.
> And it's the best sounding game I've played in the past 10 years.


Not so sure about the underlined part. Usually Windows spatial sound API is used for atmos.
Google do not mention nothing for metro eexodus openal.


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## Inle (Mar 11, 2019)

kilis said:


> Hi Inle, thanks for the review,
> 
> İ have Asus essence stx2  card and i am planning to purchase Adam A7X active speaker and connect it to asus with unbalanced rca cables.
> Assuming you did same with Evga and Adam A7x during the listening test,
> Did you experience any noise,hiss or similar unpleasant sound from Adam speakers due to unbalanced connection ?



Sounds like a plan, the Adams are monsters  I didn't have any such issues when connecting them to the EVGA NU Audio through RCA. Do keep in mind that many studio monitors do exhibit a tweeter hiss, which can be heard pretty much whenever they're turned on (even when not connected to anything). On the A7X it's extremely quiet though - I can only hear it if I press my ear against the tweeter. Completely inaudible from a normal sitting distance. A friend of mine got himself the new Adam T7V recently and claims that the tweeter hiss on them is annoyingly loud. I didn't check it out in person so I can't comment on it being true or not. The A7X is a better speaker though, compared to anything from the T-series.


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## bug (Mar 11, 2019)

Prima.Vera said:


> I might be wrong, but the latest Metro:Exodus is using Dolby Atmos tech via Hardware OpenAL.
> And it's the best sounding game I've played in the past 10 years.


What's "hardware OpenAL"? It sounds like "hardware DX" or "hardware Vulkan" to me.


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 11, 2019)

bug said:


> What's "hardware OpenAL"? It sounds like "hardware DX" or "hardware Vulkan" to me.



Are you joking, right? You know what a dedicated hardware DSP means.


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## bug (Mar 11, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> Are you joking, right? You know what a dedicated hardware DSP means.


Read the examples I gave. I am not joking.


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## skates (Mar 12, 2019)

Do I need to add this to my custom water loop?
Will this run without incorporating some type of RGB?
Will I finally hear foot steps in Battlefield V?


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## John Naylor (Mar 12, 2019)

I remember J J from Asus answering a question  during an AMA IIRC, in which he responded that their on board sound on the enthusiast boards w/ Whatever supreme moniker they used for their ALC 1150 implementation was equivalent to their $75 - $90 sound cards.   I find them all well and good for the intended usage/  As for investing in higher proceed options, it's akin t listening to music on a $500 pair of headphones thru an iphone's $12 sound subsystem.  Just not worth the investment.

The starting point for a quality audio sound systm is " the room" and placement.   With the toical desk in corner of rooms scenario, spending money doesn't improve room acoustics.


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## SetsunaFZero (Mar 13, 2019)

Inle could you give us a high res Pic of the PCB with out the PCB shielding?


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## W1zzard (Mar 13, 2019)

SetsunaFZero said:


> Inle could you give us a high res Pic of the PCB with out the PCB shielding?


https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/NU_Audio_Card_Preview/4.html


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## user112 (Mar 25, 2019)

the purpose of a sound card should be to add the extra jacks needed to run surrond sound directly from pc speakers+subwoofer not connect the expensive card to a more expensive receiver.


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## bug (Mar 25, 2019)

user112 said:


> the purpose of a sound card should be to add the extra jacks needed to run surrond sound directly from pc speakers+subwoofer not connect the expensive card to a more expensive receiver.


You're opening up a can of worms here.
You can't get high quality sound from an electrical noisy enclosure, no matter how expensive your sound card is (you can if you get lucky or if you're old enough, but I cinsider these special cases). The best choice will always be to use a digital out.
As the user becomes more demanding, their sound setup goes: onboard sound + plastic speakers -> dedicated sound card + better plastic speakers -> onboard or (imho) unnecessarily expensive sound card + above average speakers.
Regardless of the progression above, what each individual considers "the best" setup is a never ending discussion.


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## user112 (Mar 26, 2019)

no worms exist here because it's not hard to EMI-sheild devices and cables 100% from outside interference. because you can create this thing called a faraday cage around the card. we even have special films and tapes with EMI-sheilding properties in this day and age.


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## Mescalamba (Mar 26, 2019)

user112 said:


> no worms exist here because it's not hard to EMI-sheild devices and cables 100% from outside interference. because you can create this thing called a faraday cage around the card. we even have special films and tapes with EMI-sheilding properties in this day and age.



Could probably re-use that metal shield it already has? Or am I wrong? (as base for shielding)


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## bug (Mar 26, 2019)

user112 said:


> no worms exist here because it's not hard to EMI-sheild devices and cables 100% from outside interference. because you can create this thing called a faraday cage around the card. we even have special films and tapes with EMI-sheilding properties in this day and age.


Yeah, well, you can hit nails on the head with a microscope, too. Doesn't mean you're doing it the easy way


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 26, 2019)

bug said:


> Yeah, well, you can hit nails on the head with a microscope, too. Doesn't mean you're doing it the easy way



You are exaggerating. It is not that difficult to design a card inside a PC. Look up at the measurements, noise floor. Can you see any bad things? I compared external vs internal device with similar DAC. If your assembled hardware is defective and doesn't comply with EN 55022 blame yourself. The more if you live near ar radio tower, the heck even a rouge phone wall charger near even your dedicated interfaces will suffer, You have to do checkup of your gear, no matter if its inside or outside the case, same rules apply for both. Actually external devices also induct a loop and gimp on proper multilayer board design often, it doesn't apply as rule that they all are better. I wonder during early years people were happy using EMU cards, and some still use, also Lynx2 for professional needs. Their measurements using spectrum analyzers were fine. I haven't seen on the scope anything alien in the noise floor also unless the device is defective, the limiting factor is the DAC implementation, experience and targeted cost. It is much easier to develop for newer dac like ESS as they reside even more robust internal PSRR and you can gimp on external parts, and that's the reason they appear already on motherboards. They are very immune to your stated problems, that was a serious issue years before. Maybe you can share your experience with examples.

Because respectable manufacturers states specs of their devices also noise floor(the new or shady ones hide it, look at the Kingston Mic at front page news, they hide most important parameters, look up at the Blue and there they are I wonder why lol). If it would suck in something, someone for sure would file an class action suit for claiming false advertising.


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## bug (Mar 26, 2019)

@Ferrum Master It's hard to make 100% sure your card will not pick up noise in _any_ PC setup. A rogue wire or something is all it takes. So yeah, it can be done, but it's just not the easy route.
I just got myself a Dragonfly Red instead


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## Ferrum Master (Mar 26, 2019)

bug said:


> @Ferrum Master It's hard to make 100% sure your card will not pick up noise in _any_ PC setup. A rogue wire or something is all it takes. So yeah, it can be done, but it's just not the easy route.
> I just got myself a Dragonfly Red instead



Write a review about it... why not?

Wires are fine, just you have to use proper one for each task. Inductors also never hurt... I use them a lot. Thing is as usual - everything made by man can be broken. You can even manage to oscillate a PA system in a dedicated rack mount. Laptops also aren't the holy grail, chargers are very HF noisy, also the due to lack of space their power supply circuitry doesn't have much space to filter out voltages from SMPS caused noises, also more filtering = more power consumption and for a mobile device the decision goes to the other side towards economy, there are trade offs in every decision we make especially when we create something. USB is really also a double edged sword, seldom who fully isolates the bus from the PC, but some do. Using mainstream parts aimed for the masses takes its toll, why server/military/medical grade parts exist even in the first place? If you really are a professional you will find your solution and someone will help from the industry for sure.

If the _any _PC setup actually doesn't comply with the regulations by PCI-SIG, EN 55022 CISPR 22, oh well... it sucks. But I usually test things out, measure, if not, within the time of two weeks I have the right to return the merch simple as that. But PC component quality is a major theme for another thread, let's not do it here, it is known that certain manufacturers are getting worse and worse.

I really suggest you Henry W. Ott books. EMI Troubleshooting Cookbook for Product Designers and Noise Reduction Techniques in Electronic Systems(Electromagnetic Compatibility Engineering(depends on the year released) to quite the science fiction talk and back to the job how it is done... for years. It ain't something that new.


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## Zubasa (Apr 8, 2019)

What I don't understand is why they keep putting a front audio header on these cards.
Connecting to the front of the case with the shitty case cable defeats the purpose of these cards.
All you get are the electrical noise from what ever else is around.


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## Ferrum Master (Apr 8, 2019)

Zubasa said:


> What I don't understand is why they keep putting a front audio header on these cards.
> Connecting to the front of the case with the shitty case cable defeats the purpose of these cards.
> All you get are the electrical noise from what ever else is around.



I don't know. In my understanding it is just idiotism. Clutter. If you really wish the function, there is a USB there. I did a mod for a fractal case, it had enough room to solder a USB hub and share USB to a simple sound interface. And voila, you have the header, no clutter with wires, just USB, the mod costs around 5$


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## Dumbassrevealer (Apr 9, 2019)

Here is a measurement of Nu Audio taken on line out taken with a Audio Precision APx555 and a little bit of care with cables etc. Simply having the RMAA loopback wires droop onto the mains inlet can spoil your measurement: -120dB is one millionth of the audio signal signal, -150dB is 1/31,000,000th of the audio signal. So, you can imagine how careful you have to be to make meaningful measurements. It's also important to disable the RGB lighting if you wan the lowest noise performance from the card. The PSU is a Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium, but the mobo, especially some power saving modes will also generate noise, more than the PSU more often than not.

It depends what you want, the ultimate audiophile experience, something that just sounds good, or not bother with any special setup measures or PC components. Whichever the case, you have accept your own personal set of compromises.








Zubasa said:


> What I don't understand is why they keep putting a front audio header on these cards.
> Connecting to the front of the case with the shitty case cable defeats the purpose of these cards.
> All you get are the electrical noise from what ever else is around.



If there was no header people would complain just as much about that, there is no way to win.


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## Ferrum Master (Apr 9, 2019)

Dumbassrevealer said:


> Simply having the RMAA loopback wires droop onto the mains inlet can spoil your measurement:



Idealizing measurement conditions showing the card's capability to coop with oscillation issues and disabling RGB?? Get a life man, build a proper product next time.


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## Dumbassrevealer (Apr 9, 2019)

Groan...What are you talking about 'oscillation issues'? You mean EM susceptibility?

Moving wires away from a source of uncontrolled noise is idealising the test conditions is it? Same as disabling RGB? The option is there in the GUI in case you want to use it to gain a few dB of noise floor.

Resorting to ill informed, unsubstantiated jibes is not helping anyone here. And, incidentally, I have no intention of entering a flame war with you either, the result is there, you can take it or leave it, it's what the card is capable of - facts Ferrum, not waffle.

If you can't achieve what I have, and others have with _real_ test equipment, then you should check your system and test methodology, not to start chucking mud.


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## Ferrum Master (Apr 9, 2019)

Dumbassrevealer said:


> Groan...What are you talking about 'oscillation issues'? You mean EM susceptibility?



I was basing on what the reviewer saw. R channel is going haywire. What can you add about it? The card is a dud for him?, or the PWM driver screws the R channel(it looks like oscillation or interference pick your poison)? Did I say something wrong? EM is the biggest concern in a PC sound card. Also how the device interacts with consumer devices. Some are more prone to parasitic capacities some not. 

Moving away from a source? Cherry picking using things that average users doesn't do? Disabling power saving, sure it does create hellish noise as the base VRM generators change frequency and the concert is much quiet. Using a proper PSU is fine to me, yeah. What did you else? Used a PCIe extender and measured the card away form the PC case also? I also do that while fixing them. You are showing results with 150dB what kinda that proves what? It works well in a isolated RF cradle? I have those also. The card doesn't work in real time usage scenario? So while gaming let them eat noise? Nobody will notice it either way.

I am not that cuckoo to buy it to give you facts, I cannot give you that. Sorry. I have the equipment to measure it for sure. Was it EM, was it resistor thermal noise, poor PCB design, ground loops, not enough power rail filtering, pick your favorite. Just tell not to post dud results in the review and claim everything is fine and dandy, because obviously it is not.


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## Dumbassrevealer (Apr 10, 2019)

The review, was positive was it not? Editors Choice? I'm not the cuckoo here, Ferrum, the guy wants to kick Inle's eggs out of the nest to replace them with his own.

And, your input is based purely on opinion. And, sadly for you, your cynical way here has poisoned whatever you say about it in future. You didn't offer any advice about how to optimise a sound card, any sound card, it is just pure cynicism.

The RMAA results were good, and, any issues that Inle experience, or you did from your side of the monitor, do we have objective evidence that, in exactly the same setup, would not be experienced by another card from a different manufacturer, or, that by some optimisation of setup could not be eliminated? Your input here could have been constructive, but it wasn't.

My input is objective, that the Nu Audio card is capable of exemplary performance. And, Inle's experience, is that, regardless of what you take issue with, he found the card to sound excellent. That is what the average customer is buying the card for.

You show a GE valve box on your ID, do you not? Why not not Euler's perfect identity? Maybe because you know that there is more to sound than meets the eye anyway?

Indeed, it's possible to get more out of this card by BIOS settings, by many routes. The same is true of a GPU. What are we to do? Test Lamborghini cars on how good they are at taking shopping from the supermarket because that's your preferred test criteria? Why should we limit ourselves to your worldview?

In any case, the 'average user' RMAA result was 'Excellent'. The truth is, that this card can go way, way beyond that as I showed. Some people want to take the time, some don't. It's their choice to buy what suits them best.


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## Ferrum Master (Apr 10, 2019)

Dumbassrevealer said:


> RMAA result was 'Excellent'. The truth is, that this card can go way, way beyond that as I showed. Some people want to take the time, some don't. It's their choice to buy what suits them best.



You did a test using a APx555 , get a life man, now you say RMAA says it is fine. Your the cuckoo one for sure... make a better card next time. I showed my results making the same measuring scheme.

You cannot deny the fact, the charts were showing a hardware error.

So if i once made a tube Amp, now I am a dork? The moto is the message I liked to show, ain't it? Fix your product.


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## Dumbassrevealer (Apr 10, 2019)

What are you talking about? I need a life because I have an APx555? 

And you don't know how to set up and test an audio product? Is that my fault?


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## Ferrum Master (Apr 10, 2019)

Dumbassrevealer said:


> What are you talking about? I need a life because I have an APx555?
> 
> And you don't know how to set up and test an audio product? Is that my fault?



So basically you are attacking me about measurements, I didn't do, then make comments about me basing on my avatar.

This product is a dud. Broken or poorly designed, or both. I won't reply further, people can read everything them self.


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## Dumbassrevealer (Apr 10, 2019)

I posted my alternative result, taken on APx555 rather than loopback using RMAA. You attacked me about it, remember?

I would have liked to enter a conversation about optimising audio in the PC environment, so everyone can benefit. You prevented that from happening, which is a shame, although not the end of the world. Unfortunately stuff like this happens all the time on forums, which is what limits their usefulness  to the lowest common denominator I suppose.

About your avatar. No attack intended there, I thought that someone who knew about tubes would know about audio outside of RMAA, simple as that.

Indeed, this is a waste of time. I wish you good luck in the future.


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## Ferrum Master (Apr 10, 2019)

Dumbassrevealer said:


> You prevented that from happening, which is a shame, although not the end of the world.



You have no idea actually that in the result you have made such a bad press about this cards incapability to operate in normal conditions. And everyone can now read about it. Basically you created a external USB DAC, and putting in a PC it really doesn't work by specs, as it is prone to EMI as the design experience is lacking, you have you use it outside the PC. It is an absurd product then. Buy an external DAC. 

Best wishes, case closed.


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## Dumbassrevealer (Apr 10, 2019)

You might want to wipe the vitriol off your keyboard and monitor before it corrodes it.

Anyway, good luck in your future ventures.


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## Mescalamba (Apr 10, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> You have no idea actually that in the result you have made such a bad press about this cards incapability to operate in normal conditions. And everyone can now read about it. Basically you created a external USB DAC, and putting in a PC it really doesn't work by specs, as it is prone to EMI as the design experience is lacking, you have you use it outside the PC. It is an absurd product then. Buy an external DAC.
> 
> Best wishes, case closed.



Sadly, you are the not-so-clever person here.

You see, when someone (like me) buys a high end soundcard, they do everything in their power to making it perform in best possible ways.

Which means..

1) I dont have RGB at all, anywhere

2) it is sitting carefully far away from anything that could even remotely cause some issues

3) I have decent PSU, next time I get even better one (well I have one nice SeaSonic on order already)

And ofc decent pair of cans to go with it, plus all SW solutions required to make it perform.

For sure my old STX does perform really well.  It could maybe do about same even without it, but I do want it to perform best. Yea and maybe some OP-AMP switched..

You are that kind of guy, that buys top end soundcard and then uses default Windows Media Player to play music.


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## Ferrum Master (Apr 10, 2019)

Mescalamba said:


> Sadly, you are the not-so-clever person here.
> 
> You see, when someone (like me) buys a high end soundcard, they do everything in their power to making it perform in best possible ways.
> 
> ...



For sure. I am totally with you there. Maybe also try to read from the start and then spread some toxicity?


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## Dumbassrevealer (Apr 11, 2019)

Ferrum, it's you who has been toxifying this thread like an angry crop sprayer.

No one wants to play your game anymore.

Calm down, think rationally, and start talking like an engineer. Solve problems objectively, and listen to what people are saying.

I am not your enemy Ferrum.


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## Ferrum Master (Apr 11, 2019)

Dumbassrevealer said:


> I am not your enemy Ferrum.



Almost a half of your TPU posts contain remarks and bites towards me? Yea I wiped vitriol off the keyboard too, for sure. Ain't it a bit weird? Telling to someone that he is not your enemy?

I don't need to add anything, the graphs are already there, points given. Just read from the start. Anyone googling up can read up, compare and decide, what the product does. I don't need to react to anything really. Shots are fired. I am not taking anything back from it. Your remarks actually bring more irony and bad press to it. I would be fired for that.


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## Dumbassrevealer (Apr 12, 2019)

This is why I chose my avatar as dumbassrevealer.


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## Caring1 (Apr 13, 2019)

Dumbassrevealer said:


> This is why I chose my avatar as dumbassrevealer.


Because Dumbassflasher was taken?


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## Dumbassrevealer (Apr 13, 2019)

Hahaha!


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## Metroid (Jun 24, 2019)

Nowadays is better to have an external dac and amp hardware, soundcards uses 1 pcie slot and sometimes there are interference.


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## Totally (Sep 20, 2019)

Ferrum Master said:


> You are exaggerating. It is not that difficult to design a card inside a PC. Look up at the measurements, noise floor. Can you see any bad things? I compared external vs internal device with similar DAC. If your assembled hardware is defective and doesn't comply with EN 55022 blame yourself. The more if you live near ar radio tower, the heck even a rouge phone wall charger near even your dedicated interfaces will suffer, You have to do checkup of your gear, no matter if its inside or outside the case, same rules apply for both. Actually external devices also induct a loop and gimp on proper multilayer board design often, it doesn't apply as rule that they all are better. I wonder during early years people were happy using EMU cards, and some still use, also Lynx2 for professional needs. Their measurements using spectrum analyzers were fine. I haven't seen on the scope anything alien in the noise floor also unless the device is defective, the limiting factor is the DAC implementation, experience and targeted cost. It is much easier to develop for newer dac like ESS as they reside even more robust internal PSRR and you can gimp on external parts, and that's the reason they appear already on motherboards. They are very immune to your stated problems, that was a serious issue years before. Maybe you can share your experience with examples.
> 
> Because respectable manufacturers states specs of their devices also noise floor(the new or shady ones hide it, look at the Kingston Mic at front page news, they hide most important parameters, look up at the Blue and there they are I wonder why lol). If it would suck in something, someone for sure would file an class action suit for claiming false advertising.



I just bought this card on impulse (was on sale $40 off and I had a $50 gift card) and thought I'd look at the graphs, and the variances are like .4% overall, pretty sure I'm not going to notice let alone care doubt I could do better for $99.


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## Ferrum Master (Sep 20, 2019)

Totally said:


> I just bought this card on impulse (was on sale $40 off and I had a $50 gift card) and thought I'd look at the graphs, and the variances are like .4% overall, pretty sure I'm not going to notice let alone care doubt I could do better for $99.



If it fits, okay. This review is obsolete as in the wild there are already version 1.3 boards with few component changes, who knows what else in the layers, still it doesn't solve the main issues in certain scenarios. The reviewed ones are 1.00.  Just replace the OP275 if you don't believe me, then look up to the Op amps in small-signal audio design book by Doug Self.


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