# Titan ITX status. (placeholder)



## Lazzer408 (Dec 2, 2011)

*Titan ITX status. New Pics!*

Some of you know I've been working on an ITX based mini gaming/HTPC system for some time. I thank you for all the input on it. Here's the update.

3d drawings almost complete. As soon as I approve them, they go to the water-jet then CNC-folded into the base and cover of the chassis. Faceplate drawings were dropped at the machine shop this afternoon and should have the production prototype by Monday. Once approved, the design heads to CNC for production. Web domain TitanITX.com reserved for e-store and support forum. Host servers are online but the site isn't up yet. Stay tuned.

As far as the system itself, here's some of the details.

-Anodized (black) brushed aluminum front faceplate. (Power LED recessed so LED is not directly visable from the front. Flush mounted power button)
-Aluminum chassis (base, cover, faceplate, brackets)
-HDD LED removed from front of chassis. (Anoying in low-light HTPC setting)
-Change was made to allow for one 2.5" SATA -and- one 3.5" SATA drive. I may make the 3.5" HDD accessable from outside the chassis if desired. (aka. built-in trayless mobile rack)
-Optical drive is SATA slot load. (only option at this time)
-450w 80+ PSU using single 80mm fan. (quieter then 2x 60mm fans) (load testing pased)
-Mounting option for two 70mm case fans. (required for some graphics cards)
-Changes to internal bracketing to allow for easier disassembly.
-Support for one full-height PCIe x16 graphics card up to 12" in length. (two slot width)
-Custom solid copper CPU cooler. (Will not support stock or aftermarket coolers)
-ROHS compliant.
- ~.27cu-ft internal volume.

The design has been a long haul working a little here and there to develop the product. My goal was to create a very powerful ITX gaming system in as little space as possible and also have good thermal management. It hasn't been easy. The final product is actually very simple but this wasn't by accident. I think some of you will be impressed by both it's simplicity and function. Those involved have been quite impressed by it.

Some things I need to address are; Front USB ports, card reader, and LCD display on the front faceplate. I will sell the chassis as designed and later offer a replacement faceplate with the added features. It is a fairly easy process to swap them.

Cost? I'm working on that. I didn't want to cut corners just to save a quarter here and a nickel there but throughout the process I've kept production costs in site. This is American designed and American built. There are some foreign components used but I didn't outsource the production. If I do, I hope it is to keep up with demand. 

Now all I need is a trusted review site to send a sample for testing. Any recomendations? 

That's all for now.


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## Athlon2K15 (Dec 2, 2011)

Tweaktown!!!!


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 2, 2011)

AthlonX2 said:


> Tweaktown!!!!



I hope that was scarcastic.


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## stupido (Dec 2, 2011)

why just one site?


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 2, 2011)

stupido said:


> why just one site?



What do you mean?


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## stupido (Dec 2, 2011)

Lazzer408 said:


> What do you mean?



I mean why only one site/reviewer? 
For example why not in this web site? Maybe just send your example to Darksaber for a review?

also as far as I understood, you want to produce that case, so for a good marketing you'll need to send your sample(s) to more than one web site for a review...


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 2, 2011)

stupido said:


> I mean why only one site/reviewer?
> For example why not in this web site? Maybe just send your example to Darksaber for a review?
> 
> also as far as I understood, you want to produce that case, so for a good marketing you'll need to send your sample(s) to more than one web site for a review...



I was kinda kidding around. Of course I'd like to have it reviewed here.


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## stupido (Dec 2, 2011)

Lazzer408 said:


> I was kinda kidding around. Of course I'd like to have it reviewed here.


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## cadaveca (Dec 2, 2011)

Lazzer408 said:


> I hope that was scarcastic.



No, he's just making his loyalties known, for those that weren't aware.



stupido said:


> Maybe just send your example to Darksaber for a review?




This is good advice. Send W1zzard or DarkSaber a PM to explore the option of having your stuff reviewed here..


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 2, 2011)

cadaveca said:


> No, he's just making his loyalties known, for those that weren't aware.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Already dropped w1z a message. 

I just got off the phone with the water jet people to set up an appointment and go over some of the drawings. A few of the pieces will be jetted out monday. I wanted a sample of their fabricating abilities.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 8, 2011)

Quick update.

I've been working with my cad guy to optimize the assembly to reduce manufacturing costs and ease serviceability. It's a bit trickier for some to work with an ITX chassis vs. a full size chasis so I've spent a little more time revising parts to make it easier to assemble. One example. The 2.5" drive has to be removed in order to access the graphics card. So, I made it's bracket removable with a single screw. Another example. To avoid having to increase the depth of the chassis, in order to allow room for the motherboard to slide clear the IO shield for service, I made the internal bracketry easy to remove without having to remove the components from the brackets. The devil is in the details.

I'm happy with how the chassis has progressed from a concept into a product worthy of TPU reviews. Hang in there. It's coming.

www.TitanITX.com is leased but who wants to design the website?


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## DrunkenMafia (Dec 8, 2011)

I want one!!  there are some kick ass itx boards out there these days!!  can't wait to see the design.  I may even order one.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 8, 2011)

The first test faceplate was completed today. Here's a pic of the power button and LED before brush finishing and anodizing.


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## erocker (Dec 9, 2011)

Looking good!

Also, I'm going to warn the two people who's posts I just deleted to keep your personal transgressions off of the forum.


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## MoonPig (Dec 9, 2011)

erocker said:


> Looking good!
> 
> Also, I'm going to warn the two people who's posts I just deleted to keep your personal transgressions off of the forum.



[yt]dx0Shn5Hvpc&ob=av3n[/yt]

Anyways...

Are there and models of this? Curious about design.


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## garyinhere (Dec 9, 2011)

MoonPig said:


> Are there and models of this? Curious about design.



I personally wouldn't put a "pre-production" model up for others to copy/steal the design of... Especially if you don't have legal backing to stop whoever steals your design. Especially if you don't have the capabilities to go into mass production right away, or a Tax Id to sell it.

I don't understand why a site would preview a product that has no manufacturer to sell it? Seems to go against what a review is for.


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## MoonPig (Dec 9, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> I personally wouldn't put a "pre-production" model up for others to copy/steal the design of... Especially if you don't have legal backing to stop whoever steals your design. Especially if you don't have the capabilities to go into mass production right away, or a Tax Id to sell it.
> 
> I don't understand why a site would preview a product that has no manufacturer to sell it? Seems to go against what a review is for.



Email me it then. I swear i won't sell the info to the Chinese.

Edit: I hear Tweaktown has a good case reviewer. That's the only place i go for my case reviews.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 9, 2011)

garyinhere said:


> I personally wouldn't put a "pre-production" model up for others to copy/steal the design of... Especially if you don't have legal backing to stop whoever steals your design. Especially if you don't have the capabilities to go into mass production right away, or a Tax Id to sell it.
> 
> I don't understand why a site would preview a product that has no manufacturer to sell it? Seems to go against what a review is for.



Have you seen Intel's "confidential" CPU test samples? Like Intel, my "pre-production" model/sample (production prototype) is based on what the production unit will be. When it gets to market, you will recieve the same unit as the reviewer's sample (unless the reviewer points out something that should be revised). The design is great but I do like to hear others opinions. That's my main reason for seeking a review. As far as manufacturing, I've already sourced various suppliers and manufacturers to produce the parts in quantity. I have a sample of one of the parts sitting next to me for inspection. I'm confidant they can do the job. Initial assembly will be done by yours truly until demand calls for larger quantities. I have enough financial support to kick start production. After the first few pieces, the product will pay for itself. The business end of things (tax ID, estore, legal maters) is also in the works.

Want to know one of the hold-ups? The power switch.  I have a dozen samples sitting here but there's something about each one I don't like. The feel, the look, the sound, the price, and the availability. The taste? Awful! I was chewing on one earlier. I had a great switch picked out only to find out later the manufacturer discontinued it.  I'm not ordering 4000pcs just to have it put back into production. Not unless you guys want a $100 chassis with a $300 power switch. 

Oh, MoonPig, I tried selling the design to MANY chassis manufacturers. Their typical response? "We already have our own designers, thank you." Well, their designers fail in the ITX department and drop the ball again and again and again. L.L Look at all those balls!


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## MoonPig (Dec 9, 2011)

Lazzer408 said:


> Oh, MoonPig, I tried selling the design to MANY chassis manufacturers. Their typical response? "We already have our own designers, thank you." Well, their designers fail in the ITX department and drop the ball again and again and again. L.L Look at all those balls!



I'll be honest, there's is literally only one case in the mITX Market that i like. It's the only one that ticks the mITX box for me. It's the Wesena Mini ITX2.


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## (FIH) The Don (Dec 9, 2011)

i KNOW for a fact that the "guy" at tweaktown wont do review/previews like this.

already asked him about it regarding my own case im designing.

you would have to have the case in production, or similar to get it reviewed there. and i think that goes to MANY other "big" sites aswell


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 9, 2011)

MoonPig said:


> I'll be honest, there's is literally only one case in the mITX Market that i like. It's the only one that ticks the mITX box for me. It's the Wesena Mini ITX2.



That suits the low power market with basic computing needs. It'll never game.


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## MoonPig (Dec 9, 2011)

Lazzer408 said:


> That suits the low power market with basic computing needs. It'll never game.



No, no. I mean, to my mITX is to be as small as possible. That case does just that. 

Most other mITX cases are nearly as big as an mATX case. What's the point in that?


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 9, 2011)

MoonPig said:


> No, no. I mean, to my mITX is to be as small as possible. That case does just that.
> 
> Most other mITX cases are nearly as big as an mATX case. What's the point in that?



I hear you. My chassis is 12.5" x 12.5" x 3" which is 4.74" larger and a hair taller then the one you've mentioned, which is 7.76" x 7.76" x 2.95". I'm _far _from a micro-ATX size chassis though. If I could make it smaller I would but that would require too many custom components resulting in a significant increase in cost. You have to consider, this isn't -just- an ITX case. It's an ITX _gaming _case that will hold a 12" long full size graphics card and anough power to run it. Most, if not all, of the current ITX cases significantly increase in size to accommodate a large graphics card and the ones in between use half-height cards.

It's impossible to design a one-size-fits-all case and I feel there's a market for a small ITX gaming chassis. The demand may be small, but there _is _a demand. That's why the project was started in the first place. Necessity is the mother of invention.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 10, 2011)

Bad news leads to good news.  It just keeps getting better. 

I've been going over the tooling/machining steps one by one to reduce the production costs.  After speaking with the fabricator, there seems to be a complication with asthetics at the rear corner of the chassis.  In other words, they can't make one of my seams look good.

I'm very picky about these things.  I will not cut corners (pun intended) and ruin my design just to make something fit.  If I have to, I'll find another solution, or even redesign the whole chassis.  Luckily, it didn't come to that.  The solution was to incorporate the rear panel into a removable motherboard tray.  We went over the idea, and a few variations of it, and found that we can eliminate multiple bends, screws, inserts, and time.  This adds up to a _significant _reduction in cost while making the unit even easier to assemble and work on.  The entire internal assembly is now removable with just 4 screws. 

I thought I'd let you know what's been going on.  I expect to have my production sample by January.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 15, 2011)

Changes:

-Aluminum extruded sides.  This design change required the height to be increased from 3" to 3.5".  The change was made for cost saving and asthetic reasons but you will get the added benefit of the chassis  being easier to work on.  It has everything mounted to a single tray which is removable with only 4 screws.

-Fans.  Some felt that the chassis should come with fans as long as they are quiet. Although not required, I've added the option of two 70mm fans in the side of the chassis.  They will be powered off a 3-pin motherboard header.

I had designed the chassis to work with graphics cards that vent their heat out the rear panel. Many cards do this but some, mainly Nvidia, dump a significant amount of heat into the enclosure they're installed in.  The two 70mm fans will help deal with this problem.  They may also allow the user to choose a graphics card with an "orb-style" GPU cooler, or even a passive cooler, but this has not been tested.

Current hang-ups:

-Waiting on production quotes.
-Power switch.

You would not believe how hard it is to find a cost effective power switch (that I like).

That's all for now.


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## pantherx12 (Dec 15, 2011)

Subbed!

I know how great your work is lazzer


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## ReaperX87 (Dec 15, 2011)

I have seen this build of his in person it is awesome, guarentee one of a kind. Keep up the good work on it Lazzer. Looked great man. Cant want to see the finished model.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 15, 2011)

Thanks Pantherx12 and Reaperx87. Reap, that was just the prototype.  I too can't wait for the final product. I've been working side-by-side with the 3D modeler for weeks and have the pleasure of watching it take shape in virtual form. Seeing the final complete assembly rendered was a treat. It's exactly how I envisioned it just alot more refined. 

Tonight is our last meeting to going over everything one last time. I'll get a screenshot of the outside of the model but you'll have to wait until it's in production to see the magic inside. 

Maybe Townshend will let me call it the "squeeze box" because the hardware is really squeezed in there.


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## ReaperX87 (Dec 15, 2011)

Yeah well seeing the final product in action will be sweet. Good luck and keep me updated.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 16, 2011)

Since I'm waiting on quotes, I fiddled around with some dimensions. They won't effect the quotes. Things were nudged a bit here and there to give a little more room for wire, fans and knuckle clearance. As I mentioned, it will accept two 70mm fans. They can now be up to 25mm in width. A wide fan can turn slower and produce less noise but still move the same amount of air as the narrow ones. The wider fans tend to whine less.

The 70mm fans mount to the same bracket as the SSD. I flipped this bracket around so the screws were accessable, without having to remove the bracket, for easy drive or fan replacement. I think you will all be pleased with how easy it is to work with this chassis. Wire management is also in place but not for asthetic reasons (hiding wires) but rather the wires will lay nicey in the chassis to keep them from getting pinched or blocking airflow.

A fan converter/controller and 3-pin Y will be included. This controller can take the PWM signal from a 4-pin motherboard header and drive the two 70mm side fans. Unfortunatly, those two fans have no effect on the chipset or CPU temps but at least you'll have the ability to adjust the fan speed in the BIOS. The fan controller also has a manual adjustment knob (internal) in case your board does not have a 4-pin PWM fan header.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 21, 2011)

I know your waiting for pics so here's a shot of the cad drawing. Sorry it's not photorealistic but the software doesn't do texturing or rendering. The vents in the side are ugly but they are not finalized. It's just to show that vents will be there. The SSD is shown in light purple. The GFX card in red. The eject button will be unfinished aluminum for the first production run. Power button will be flush, black, and is made of plastic with a concave surface.

Any requests for LED color? Blue? Red? Green? UV? 

Also, I recieved one of the quotes and it's looking good. I don't have pricing at this time but I'm trying my best to keep this affordable without any sacrifice to quality.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 22, 2011)

Which eject button to you guys like? The one on the left or the one on the right? The left button is spring loaded and stays in the front panel. The button on the right just sits in the hole and if you tip the case back (without the drive in place) it'll fall out, but it's inexpensive.


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## 1freedude (Dec 22, 2011)

Cool.  I would scrap the button and go with a hole...remember closet door unlocking?  How often will the optical be used (rhetorical)?

Addition:  besides, any modern OS will have a "eject" in context menu.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 22, 2011)

I know what your saying but personally I'd like to be able to walk up and hit a button to swap out a movie or a cd. There's alot of old-school people out there who still prefer buttons and switches. I'm one of them. I hate having to rely on software to do everything for me. I can't remember a time I've ever ejected a disc without the button. Just my thoughs about it.
Does a MCE remote have an eject button? (heads to google)


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## Winston_008 (Dec 22, 2011)

Hmmm im quite a fan of mitx systems, and can never find one that suits my gaming and can fit a standard graphics card. This looks to be better than any solutions currently on the market. I had a sugo sg5 but that was much taller than your case. Too bad i wont be able to buy when you mass produce these as im in new zealand lol.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 22, 2011)

Winston_008 said:


> This looks to be better than any solutions currently on the market.



Bingo. 

I'll ship worldwide my friends.


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## Darkleoco (Dec 22, 2011)

Going to keep my eye on this


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 22, 2011)

I had some updated parts test cut on some scrap today. Here's the 13.5x3.5" rear panel. Judging by the I/O shield, you can get a better idea of it's size.


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## Lazzer408 (Dec 24, 2011)

Wow. I tried to do this over at AnandTech to let them know what it was and ask for more opinions and I got banned for spamming. Just goes to show how corporate America runs the show and why American made hardware costs so much. They just slammed the little guy. Looks like I'll just have to build it my way and pay for marketing and let the customer eat the bill... NOT!

Long live TPU!!


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 6, 2012)

A few of the quotes finally came back. Many of the companies involved took a long holiday vacation. Everything is coming back with a cost below what I was expecting which is great. Some samples are on the way as type. I can _finally_ get some production units built to verify it all goes together as intended and get some real product images.

Monday I'm meeting with a rep from Apem and hopefully get this switch problem sorted out. If it turns out they can't provide me the cap I need, I have a local friend who owns injection molding facilities who's willing to float me the cost of injection dies. That said, what shape and finish do you guys prefer for the power button? A flat button with a chamfered edge? A concave button? A domed button? Gloss or matte finish?

The power button in the image below is the concave gloss finish button.

View attachment 44624


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## Winston_008 (Jan 8, 2012)

I think the power button in the picture looks good, nice and simple.

Also will the case take sfx psus or the longer tfx variety. Cause if its sfx ill just stick my silverstone sfx one in .


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 8, 2012)

Winston_008 said:


> I think the power button in the picture looks good, nice and simple.
> 
> Also will the case take sfx psus or the longer tfx variety. Cause if its sfx ill just stick my silverstone sfx one in .



It uses an SFX/mATX power supply. There are more SFX options available then TFX. The supply I use has custom cable lengths and connectors. There isn't enough room in the chassis to stuff 15" worth of cable with half a dozen connectors on it. You can use your supply of choice but you may need to modify the cables or use lots of zipties. 

I can offer the chassis with or without the power supply. There will be other options as well such as a solid or vented top cover. Choosing the vented top cover will allow you use a wider varity of CPU coolers.

Current power supply specs:

450w Active PFC 80+
80mm fan (thermally controlled)

+3.3v 21a
+5v 22a
12v1 18a
12v2 18a
+5sb 2.5a
-12v 0.5a

+3.3v and 5v = 120w max.
Total continuous output 450w.

1x 24pin
1x 4+4 EPS
1x 6+6 PCIe
1x SATA (on cable "a" for HDD)
1x Molex (on cable "a" for optical)
1x Molex (on cable "b" for LCD/acc.)


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 12, 2012)

I've sourced suppliers for the fans, controller, and the Y cable provided to drive both fans.

The Delta fans shown are high speed models and not ideal for my application. Don't bother looking them up. The fans used in production will be around 3000rpm 70x15 (chassis supports up to 70x25) and either PWM controlled or manually set using the controller provided. Both modes are supported by this controller. One fan being considered is the Delta AFB0712MB. Specs here. http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/download/pdf/AFB/AFB70x70x15mm.pdf

The fans are located near the rear of the chassis next to the graphics card and assist in removing heat around the card and around the 3.5" drives.

This fan "package" will be sold as an option that can be selected during checkout. There will be other options such as a ventilated top cover (for using more standard CPU coolers), solid cover (for use with my custom cooler), and an optional bracket that's used to install two more 3.5" drives for those not needing the space for a graphics card. Example: HTPC users content with on-board graphics but wouldn't mind two additional 3.5" drives for mass media storage. This amounts to a total of three 3.5" drives and you still have room for a 2.5" SSD.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 24, 2012)

Update, questions, and teaser pic...

The extrusion FINALLY came. Now I can get this production proto rolling. Also my hook up came through with the injection molding which dropped the switch/LED assembly costs considerably. Have to compete right? Every bit help.

Question for you guys. Pay attention to dimension. The current chassis is 13.5(w)x12.5(d)x3.5(h)" which is revised from the original 12.5x12.5x3" to accommodate for 2 fans, more HDD options, and to account for a wire clearance issue with the gfx card. At this point in time it would be easy to make the adjustments to allow for an ATX power supply. The main reason I'm considering this is due to the high cost of a quality mATX supply. To fit an ATX unit, the chassis size would increase to 14~14.5(w) x 13.5(d) x 4"(h). I'm deviating from my origlnal design because I keep stuffing more options into it, but, the ATX supply would be significantly more alluring to people.

Do it? Opinions?

Teaser alert!


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## Winston_008 (Jan 25, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> Update, questions, and teaser pic...
> 
> The extrusion FINALLY came. Now I can get this production proto rolling. Also my hook up came through with the injection molding which dropped the switch/LED assembly costs considerably. Have to compete right? Every bit help.
> 
> ...



For me personally, i wouldnt increase the size, as it would just put it closer in size to other similar competing products in the htpc/small gaming case. The allure of this case is its size and ability to fit a flagship graphics card and cpu in the smallest size possible.

Unless of course you plan to offer 2 variants of the case. One the smaller size and one the atx psu size. Which depending on how you want to go about it, could be a good idea.

Nice work so far though


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 25, 2012)

Winston_008 said:


> For me personally, i wouldnt increase the size, as it would just put it closer in size to other similar competing products in the htpc/small gaming case. The allure of this case is its size and ability to fit a flagship graphics card and cpu in the smallest size possible.
> 
> Unless of course you plan to offer 2 variants of the case. One the smaller size and one the atx psu size. Which depending on how you want to go about it, could be a good idea.
> 
> Nice work so far though



Thank you. 

I'm considering 3 variations. The design allows me to do this with little to no re-tooling cost. A model line-up could consist of the smallest model supporting an ITX board (not limited to Atom-based), 1U (flex) 300w PSU, one 3.5, one 2.5, and slim optical, 10(w)x11?(d)x2.5"(h)" depending on drive configuration. Next is a medium model which is the current design, 13.5(w)x12.5(d)x3.5(h)". The largest model could support an ATX PSU, two 3.5, one 2.5, slim optical, two 80mm case fans, can support dual-GPU cards like the HD6990 and would be 14(w)x13.5(d)x4(h)". Wouldn't that make for a tasty little ITX gamer?


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## DanD3n (Jan 25, 2012)

Hi,
found your post on google, looking for similar gaming mini itx projects. 

I have a similar project in mind, to build the smallest gaming mini itx possible. I'm not planning going commercial with it, just building one for myself. Right now the case is in SketchUp drawing phase.

The case you are building was one of the two variants i had in mind, at least when it comes to exterior dimensions. But it's not the smallest possible.  The other variant, the one i plan to build, is the one you can see in the pictures bellow. I have not finished the Sketchup drawing of the casing, it's only a mock-up and i've not decided on how all the case panels will mount together... 

The total case dimensions should be: 6.8"(H) x 4.7"(W) x 12.5"(D); standard 2 slots video card cooler and 60mm total height for cpu cooler. Direct air path, positive pressure only. Perfect cooling, no dust, but also no noise reduction.

-no optical drive, as i don't need one anymore (everything i have is on usb sticks or external hdds)

-the video card is connected with a 16x pci express flexible extension card; i bought one like this and replaced the cable with an ~8 inch longer one. Tested and it works fine, no performance or stability issues.

-only room for 2x 2.5" drives (maybe 3, i don't know exactly), but it's fine for me, as i plan to use an SSD for the OS and programs: one 128 GB SSD and one 1 TB 2.5" hdd.

-the video card can be as long as 11", with any standard 2 slot default cooling. But i plan to use a Scythe Setsugen 2 cooler, the only 2 slot custom gpu cooler that i know of. Direct air path.

-for the CPU i plan to use a Scythe Big Shuriken 2 cooler, with its slim fan. Maximum cooler height should be no more than 60mm. But the decision on this is not final, maybe i'll add ~0.5" to the case height, to accommodate a normal 120mmx25mm fan. Direct air path, the air will be pushed by positive pressure alone, to the sides of the case (haven't decided yet where the exhaust slots should be, maybe only to the back).

-SFX PSU (400w-450W by Fortron or Silverstone).

-custom shorter cables everywhere, including for the PSU. I don't think you can hide the default PSU cables without increasing the length of the case by an inch or so. I plan to replace the fan also, so it's not a problem for me, but could be for a commercial case.

This is the absolute smallest possible mini itx system that accepts a full length powerful video card, by total volume. I've tried several other positions of these components, but this is the most compact one with little to no space wasted. The case could stand vertical, with no legs, or orizontal, but with legs, so the video card can get some air from below.


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## stupido (Jan 25, 2012)

Ha! Nice to see in picture my idea of putting the GPU under the motherboard tray...
Thanks DanD3n!


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 25, 2012)

DanD3n said:


> .
> The case you're building was one of the two variants i had in mind, at least when it comes to exterior dimensions. But it's not the smallest possible.



Show me a dozen smaller designs and I'll show you a dozen reasons why it's not ideal.  I've had this in development for over 2 years with dozens of prototypes to test. Some designs worked better then others. I settled on a design that offered good cooling performance AND was cost effective to reproduce in large quantity. The latter was more work then designing it.

PCI flex extensions do have issues. I've tested many of them with many different graphics cards. Some cards would work ok, some are unstable, some won't work at all.

Good luck with your project. If you need any ideas, look my up.

By the way... with 4.92" allowed for psu depth, plus 1.2" for the AC plug, You should have 6.12" min. from the front edge of the mobo to the front of the chassis. That's plenty of room for a 3.5" drive using 90deg connectors. There's also the problem of the PSU's DC cables hitting the mobo or the cooler depending on where they come out of the psu you intend to use.


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## DanD3n (Jan 25, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> Show me a dozen smaller designs and I'll show you a dozen reasons why it's not ideal.  I've had this in development for over 2 years with dozens of prototypes to test. Some designs worked better then others. I settled on a design that offered good cooling performance AND was cost effective to reproduce in large quantity. The latter was more work then designing it.


Have you tried something similar to my design? Any problems with cooling? I haven't tested my design, only in theory. I thought that if every component draws fresh air directly from outside, it shouldn't have any problems. The air will be forced inside and pushed outside (positive pressure inside the case). That works for the Xbox 360 slim, for example. But that's in theory, i could be wrong.

Anyway, i don't want to hijack your thread with my design, i just have the same goal as you. Could you post a pic of the inside of your case, please? I'm curious to where and how you've placed the psu and hdds. And if the GPU is facing down, how is the cooling? Is there enough room under the video card and the bottom of the case?




Lazzer408 said:


> PCI flex extensions do have issues. I've tested many of them with many different graphics cards. Some cards would work ok, some are unstable, some won't work at all.


Could you please elaborate on this? I'm very, very interested in this, since my whole design depends on a flexible 16x pcie cable. I only tested my cable with a nvidia 560 TI video card and it worked fine. Why do you think some of your cards didn't worked? I'm guessing all your video cards were using pci express 16x, right? Different cables helped or it didn't matter? A problem of length maybe? Or not enough shielding on the ribbon cable, a problem of quality? After all, if the normal riser cards work fine (as i assume from your design), then it's something to do with the ribbon cable used in flexible riser cards, but what?



Lazzer408 said:


> By the way... with 4.92" allowed for psu depth, plus 1.2" for the AC plug, You should have 6.12" min. from the front edge of the mobo to the front of the chassis. That's plenty of room for a 3.5" drive using 90deg connectors.


That will add to the height of the case and i want to avoid that. The sfx psu in my sketchup is using a normal 80mm fan, not a slim one as that used in the Silverstone psu. Even with the lower height of the Silverstone sfx psu, the 3.5" drive will still rise the height of the case. Not to mention it will create a heat hazard there. It could fit in front of the video card, in the bottom chamber, maybe there you meant and i didn't understand. If so, than yes, there's space there, but only with that video card, any longer video card would not fit. And i was planning to use a part of that space for some front usb connectors and a power button.



Lazzer408 said:


> There's also the problem of the PSU's DC cables hitting the mobo or the cooler depending on where they come out of the psu you intend to use.


I know, i will shorten the cables as much as i can and maybe move the psu a little bit, to make room there.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 26, 2012)

Have you tried something similar to my design? *Yes*
Any problems with cooling? *No*
And if the GPU is facing down, how is the cooling? *Great*
Is there enough room under the video card and the bottom of the case? *Yes*
I'm guessing all your video cards were using pci express 16x, right? *Yes*
Different cables helped or it didn't matter? *Didn't matter*
A problem of length maybe? *Not sure*
Or not enough shielding on the ribbon cable, a problem of quality? *Yes*
After all, if the normal riser cards work fine (as i assume from your design), then it's something to do with the ribbon cable used in flexible riser cards, but what? *Lack of ground plane*


My PCIe extension was much shorter that what you intend to use. The first sample I recieved didn't have any shielding, much like an IDE cable. Without any shielding, it wouldn't work at all and if the board managed to post, it revert back to the onboard video as if the gfx card wasn't even installed. I tried placing aluminum tape to shield both sides of the ribbon and although this helped significantly (bios would find it every time) there were still problems with stability and some cards still didn't work at all. Symptoms would be the computer hanging, bsod, video goes black, reboots, or powers on with no video. It has to do with signal losses, echoing, and cross-talk. Some cards can apperently handle a little noise, some don't. I've seen someone use an extension that was 12" long and it worked fine for their setup but this was back in the GeForce 5k/6k series days. The riser cards I've got my hands on all have a ground plane layer in the pcb and some even have additional capacitors on the power rails to provide a little extra filtering. Lets say a card's ground reference floated above zero, say 0.5v, and the logic signaling is supposed to be between 0 and 1v, what you wind up with is signal switching between .5 and 1v. This is one possibility that would reek havoc on a digital circuit but I'm not a digital signal expert. Interestingly, Thermaltake uses a ribbon in their Mozart SX (VC7001SNS) chassis.

The toughest thing about designing a product is the trial and error and the learning curve. If you have engineering experience it's alot easier but there's still hurdles to overcome. If this chassis was a standard ATX chassis it would be a cakewalk but it's not. I've had to nudge things .005" here and .020" there and really know beyond a shadow of a doubt that everything is going to function as designed before I drop a huge investment on parts. The devil IS in the details. I've seen him!


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 26, 2012)

Top and bottom covers for one of the prototypes are finished. I still have the faceplate and internal brackets to do.


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## t_ski (Jan 26, 2012)

subbededededededdeddddededdededededed until the alcohol waerassasds offfffff


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 26, 2012)

t_ski said:


> subbededededededdeddddededdededededed until the alcohol waerassasds offfffff



I thought you never finish anything? I bet you finished a few tonight!


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## t_ski (Jan 26, 2012)

two really strong onez. lotsa kettle one + peach ssssschnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaappppppppppppppppppppppssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss + un pequito jugo de naranjajajajajajaja


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## DanD3n (Jan 26, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> I've seen someone use an extension that was 12" long and it worked fine for their setup but this was back in the GeForce 5k/6k series days. The riser cards I've got my hands on all have a ground plane layer in the pcb and some even have additional capacitors on the power rails to provide a little extra filtering.


I think my pci express flexible card has a ground plane, i can see that the rings around the mounting holes on the pcb are made of copper, so there should be a copper ground plane. Maybe. No capacitors, though. But it works fine and, as i've said, i have a medium GPU from the latest generation nvidia cards (560TI)...Maybe i got lucky with a quality cable? Or maybe when my next upgrade will come, it will not work; and i can't be sure right now, without trying this particular cable on multiple cards. :sigh:

Anyway, about your case, where do you place the SFX PSU? I'm guessing it's on the mobo side, with the exhaust slots on the side (or top?). And under the dvd drive there should be the 3.5" hdd, right? Without an internal picture available, i can only imagine the internal layout. 

About the GPU card, have you tried in your designs to rise it to the top of case, letting more space at the bottom, making possible for mounting bigger, custom, heatsinks? And you could try isolating it from the rest of the case, so the hot air wouldn't go in the cpu/hdd/psu area. Something similar was done the new Alienware X51 slim case, but it's not very efficient because i don't think they made it that way for the cooling, but for the ease of installation. But the idea remains.

ps: are the sides made out of solid blocks of extruded aluminium? And the back and front plate are screw mounted directly on those two plates, right? Isn't this more expensive to make? It's certainly better than other mounting designs, easier to assemble and much more solid all around, but i think it will add to the costs (and weight). Btw, when do you think (or hope) it will be available for sale?


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 27, 2012)

The PCB is likely to have proper shielding. It's the ribbon itself that causes the problems.

Custom heatsinks are a small market. It's impossable to design a product to suit everyone's needs. My design is intended to support a wide range of retail graphics cards and I'm sure there's many cards out there that would have cooling issues in this chassis. Mainly those with large orb-style coolers that just blast heat 360deg hoping the case fans can get it out of the chassis. It's best to use a graphics card that vents most of it's heat out the rear slots.

The extrusion is fairly cheap to manufacturer but it's a large investment to begin production. The die cost alone can be $1500-$2000 and you have to buy 1000-2000lbs of aluminum billet to be extruded. If this makes 2000pcs, for example, then the die cost is diluted to $1 a piece. That's not so bad. Add the extrusion time, length cut, deburing and finishing, and anodizing and it starts to add up quickly but is still relatively cost effective especially in low profile enclosures. As you have pointed out, the fit and finish of the final product using extrusion can not be beat by folded sheet metal. 

The design of the "Titan ITX Mini" is complete.  I've given the CAD files to various fabrication shops to see who can do what and at what cost.  Some of the components are made in China (power switch/LED, fan, fan Y-cable, fan controller, power supply, screws) and it takes alot longer to hear from them. Everyone is on vacation for Chinese Newyear.  The extrusion, sheet metal, and final assembly is all made in America by American companies.  The country may be in need of face lift but you simply can not compair the quality of some of the samples I've recieved. They all do very good work. I would like to see this hit the shelfs, or at least my website store, by summer so long as politics don't bring me down.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 27, 2012)

Which screw do you like? The hex cap screw recessed flush into the face, or the flat head screw flush with the face?


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## Norton (Jan 27, 2012)

How about these?


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 27, 2012)

Norton said:


> How about these?
> 
> View attachment 45480



Sure, torx is an option. That's just a matter of swapping out the screws. I have to machine the faceplate and choose which countersink gets chucked in the CNC. I can countersink a hole deep enough that the large head of a cap screw can sit in, or countersink a bevel for a flathead screw. You can always swap out a philips for a torx once you recieve it but the screw head will have to be one style of countersink or the other.


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## Norton (Jan 27, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> Sure, torx is an option. That's just a matter of swapping out the screws. I have to machine the faceplate and choose which countersink gets chucked in the CNC. I can countersink a hole deep enough that the large head of a cap screw can sit in, or countersink a bevel for a flathead screw. You can always swap out a philips for a torx once you recieve it but the screw head will have to be one style of countersink or the other.



IMHO the black screw complemented your aluminum panel and Torx is a much hardier fastener than phillips head.... Phillips head fasteners usually get chewed up pretty good after a half dozen or so tightenings.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 27, 2012)

Norton said:


> IMHO the black screw complemented your aluminum panel and Torx is a much hardier fastener than phillips head.... Phillips head fasteners usually get chewed up pretty good after a half dozen or so tightenings.



I'll agree with that. The retail product will be anodized black. Some chrome screws would accent the black well.  Philips is always handy for those without tool boxes. Also, there's no reason to ever remove the faceplate. The entire assembly slides out the back for service.


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## Norton (Jan 27, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> I'll agree with that. The retail product will be anodized black. Some chrome screws would accent the black well.  Philips is always handy for those without tool boxes. Also, there's no reason to ever remove the faceplate. The entire assembly slides out the back for service.



Chrome on black definitely nice 

If cost is similar- Torx will likely make manufacturing cleaner (same idea regarding tightening- less quality control work checking for chewed up phillips head screws)


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 27, 2012)

Price isn't a deal breaker on a screw. I'm not concerned about a few pennys on only 4 screws per unit. Which one of these do you like?


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## Norton (Jan 27, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> Price isn't a deal breaker on a screw. I'm not concerned about a few pennys on only 4 screws per unit. Which one of these do you like?
> 
> http://www.modelsport.co.uk/_images/products/normal/15457_01.jpg
> 
> http://www2.gpmd.com/image/h/hpic1539.jpg



I like them both but the bottom ones in a countersunk hole gets my vote


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 27, 2012)

The button head you posted isn't bad either. The chassis has rounded edges all around with a rounded power button and a radius around the power button and around the optical slot. It might blend well with everything. I'll order a few of each and see how it looks. Thanks for the input.


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## stupido (Jan 27, 2012)

My vote would go to the flat ones if they are the same color as the aluminium panel. But... (there is always one but(t)   ) the round one might look better is used as decoration (they should be different color than the aluminium plate)...

maybe direct comparison will tell the best...


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## DanD3n (Jan 27, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> The PCB is likely to have proper shielding. It's the ribbon itself that causes the problems.


When i replaced mine, i simply took one from an old IDE cable and cut it to size. Applied 3 layers of alu shielding and it worked. If other video cards will not work, then it seems that not all video cards are built the same, and some are more sensible than others to the signal level that travels through a ribbon cable. In your flexible riser cards try-outs, haven't you encounter one cable that worked on all the video cards tested? 
I have second thoughts of my design, because of the uncertainty of future video card upgrades, caused by this flexible extension. 



Norton said:


> I like them both but the bottom ones in a countersunk hole gets my vote


+1
I also like the bottom ones, they add to the industrial, built like a tank look.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 27, 2012)

DanD3n said:


> When i replaced mine, i simply took one from an old IDE cable and cut it to size. Applied 3 layers of alu shielding and it worked. If other video cards will not work, then it seems that not all video cards are built the same, and some are more sensible than others to the signal level that travels through a ribbon cable. In your flexible riser cards try-outs, haven't you encounter one cable that worked on all the video cards tested?
> I have second thoughts of my design, because of the uncertainty of future video card upgrades, caused by this flexible extension.



That's why I'm not using it. If there was so much as ONE issue what so ever with it, then it's out. There were many issues. 1: Not working 100% with 100% of tested cards. 2: Have to tape every one of them. (try that with a 1000 pieces.) 3: Ribbon cables can fail espicially in a friction type connection and the number of wires multiplies the failure rate. 4: Cost. (I couldn't find them cheap enough.)

In your design, you have one thing over mine when it comes to this PCIe riser and that is it's away from many of the interference sources. It's also up against the bottom side of the motherboard tray. Can you get your hands on a bunch of cards to test?

If you thought "good enough", your not finished. When you think "Perfect", your finished.


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## DanD3n (Jan 27, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> 3: Ribbon cables can fail espicially in a friction type connection and the number of wires multiplies the failure rate. 4: Cost. (I couldn't find them cheap enough.)


I think that once it's mounted in the such a case, it's rarely moved again. It's the same as with older IDE hdd cables, but those got much, much more friction, due to hdds being swapped more frequently. They're quite resistant, iirc. About cost, in my search i found that it varies quite much, from vendor to vendor. I payed 20 usd on mine (it was bought from amazon, but i saw it in other places, too)...



Lazzer408 said:


> In your design, you have one thing over mine when it comes to this PCIe riser and that is it's away from many of the interference sources. It's also up against the bottom side of the motherboard tray.


I was even thinking sandwiching the cable between two metal plates (currently only one, between the mobo and video card), so it's shielded from both sides. Add this to the triple alu tape i already applied, i think it will be overkill. 



Lazzer408 said:


> Can you get your hands on a bunch of cards to test?


Unfortunately, not, but i'm thinking about it.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 27, 2012)

DanD3n said:


> I was even thinking sandwiching the cable between two metal plates (currently only one, between the mobo and video card), so it's shielded from both sides. Add this to the triple alu tape i already applied, i think it will be overkill.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, not, but i'm thinking about it.



One layer should be fine and if you can extend a tab off the end of it to grab one of the mounting holes (to ground the tape) that would be even better. If it was 1 card out of 100 that caused problems I may overlook it, but it was more like 1 out of 10. It was 2 out of 12 actually. I think one was the 8800 (or 9800) and the other was an older all-in-wonder I had laying around. One has PCIe power connections and the other does not but both failed. The newer ATI/AMD 4k 5k 6k cards didn't have any issues. I didn't want to accept any issues with any cards and in my case it was easier to go with another option like the riser card. I've had zero issues with those.

I should mention that the problem showed it's head right away. It didn't take 3 hours of Furmark to crash it. If the BIOS detected the card it and managed to boot, it would fail as soon as the driver loaded.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 28, 2012)

The first faceplate came home tonight. I still have work to do but here's a progress shot.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 31, 2012)

Slowly but surely. This is a cheap display but it shows the option. Anyone know any good displays? One with an IR reciever would be best.


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## DanD3n (Jan 31, 2012)

Matrix Orbital LCDs are pretty neat, esp those VFD.


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 31, 2012)

DanD3n said:


> Matrix Orbital LCDs are pretty neat, esp those VFD.



Thank's. I'll look into it.

EDIT - Price? o.o I'll keep looking.


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## Norton (Jan 31, 2012)

Maybe you can hunt down the OEM supplier of industrial remote displays similar to these?

http://www.vorne.com/applications/remote-displays.htm


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 31, 2012)

Norton said:


> Maybe you can hunt down the OEM supplier of industrial remote displays similar to these?
> 
> http://www.vorne.com/applications/remote-displays.htm



I can find vfd displays but they don't typically come with software that interfaces with media applications. The retail models (like the pro-lcd) come with it.


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## Norton (Feb 1, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> I can find vfd displays but they don't typically come with software that interfaces with media applications. The retail models (like the pro-lcd) come with it.



Check and see if someone can write a windows based program for it... or look around to see if an interface program is available open source.


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## Lazzer408 (Feb 9, 2012)

Tool time!

It was decided that much of the forming can be done in-house. I'm in the process of purchasing the required equipment to do so. After going over the water jet vs. laser samples, the laser was chosen do to the quality of the cut and finish. Chassis rigidity and airflow has also been improved with some of the more recent changes. The basic design remains unmodified with the exception of the 2.5" drive location. You can even sneek in another 2.5" drive if you mount it with double-sided tape. SSD RAID + 3.5" storage is possible. Everything is a tight fit but to be honest, I can assembly or break down this build in half the time it takes me to do a tower. It's easy to replace any single component without having to remove another to do so.


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## Lazzer408 (Feb 16, 2012)

Not much to update. Some PSU samples arived over the last few days. A 520w model looked promising but failed within one hour under 75% rated load. 

The bracket for two extra drives was cut down to one. There was going to be a clearance issue with the VFD.  Here's a pic of a mock-up bracket in the prototype. Ignore those ugly pan-head screws with washers. I have some nice truss-heads on the way.


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## Winston_008 (Mar 25, 2012)

Bump, hows the case going man?


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## Lazzer408 (Apr 4, 2012)

Good just a bit slow to get into production. Here's some updates.

All the quotes are back and below what I was expecting to pay which is a good thing. I will be doing the folding in-house to reduce the area needed to store the parts. Takes alot less room if it's all flat pieces. I'm building my own press to do the repeated bends. Press parts are jetted and sitting in my office. I got a great deal on anodizing. I'm also fighting with the factory to get the PSU cost down. The PSU I'm after is a SFF 550w (480w continous) Active PFC with 2x60mm speed controlled fans and custom cables. Aiming for $80-100 retail on the PSU. It beats every SFF unit I could get my hands on to test including another model from the same company that I blew two of during load tests. Stay away from the KDM 550w without power factor correction. It'll pop within an hour at 375w load.  The design has been completed for the most part. I gave up outsourcing this CAD crap because they all bail on me. That's why I'm building the press. Once I know my bend radius (I'll measure the darn K factors myself) I can complete the drawings myself and send them to the lazer.

I also leased an office/warehouse building thats about 1400sq-ft. The move has been taking most of my time lately. I've been here about a month now. I'm here now actually.  I can fab and store just about anything here.


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## atek3 (Apr 9, 2012)

Forget about all the haters on Anandtech. I've been waiting for about a year for someone to come out with exactly the case layout you're proposing. Please hurry so I don't have to buy an X51 just for the case 

atek3


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## Lazzer408 (Apr 10, 2012)

atek3 said:


> Forget about all the haters on Anandtech. I've been waiting for about a year for someone to come out with exactly the case layout you're proposing. Please hurry so I don't have to buy an X51 just for the case
> 
> atek3



Aw but the x51 is so CUTE!  I think it only holds single slot cards and I don't know how long it will accept. The PSU is pretty limited as well so you may want to spec your power needs and if it'll even power what you intend to stick in there.

I don't know what Anandtech's problem is. This product is partially designed by you (forum) guys. Every bit of input I've recieved is taken into consideration. That's why I redesigned the brackets for more harddrives. Maybe the mods think I'm a corporation marketing on their forums. Ah well. Their loss. TPU FTW!


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## atek3 (Apr 11, 2012)

The x51 will take a double slot card, but the power envelope limits you to roughly 7870 class cards. Somebody actually stuffed a 7950 in there but that's mucho overkill:
http://en.community.dell.com/owners-club/alienware/f/3746/t/19442269.aspx

My plan isn't to drive an 5760x1200 eyefinity array, I just want a machine that can competently handle 1080p.

atek3


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## Lazzer408 (Apr 12, 2012)

atek3 said:


> The x51 will take a double slot card, but the power envelope limits you to roughly 7870 class cards. Somebody actually stuffed a 7950 in there but that's mucho overkill:
> http://en.community.dell.com/owners-club/alienware/f/3746/t/19442269.aspx
> 
> My plan isn't to drive an 5760x1200 eyefinity array, I just want a machine that can competently handle 1080p.
> ...



Stuffed a 7870 in there? lol That's not too bad actually. What I find amusing is I approached Dell with this idea about 2 years ago. I wonder who caught wind.


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## Kantastic (Apr 12, 2012)

atek3 said:


> Forget about all the haters on Anandtech. I've been waiting for about a year for someone to come out with exactly the case layout you're proposing. Please hurry so I don't have to buy an X51 just for the case
> 
> atek3



Anandtech is a worthless forum anyway, nbd. 

Lazzer, would it save you space to completely chuck the space for a 3.5" drive? I would assume most people who buy this case would plop in a 120GB SSD and be done with it.


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## Lazzer408 (Apr 12, 2012)

The 3.5" hdd is at the rear of the chassis. It doesn't have an external opening but you could probably mod one in if you wanted. There isn't any benifit in eliminating it. It's not currently in the way. If you don't want to use a 3.5" drive, you could put two 2.5" SSDs on a RAID in it's place.

For me, I've always found it easier to plug the USB cable right into my camera. I've have card readers in my last few builds but never used them. That's just me though. I don't know if I can cram a card reader in the ITX chassis or not. Depends how small the reader is I guess. Maybe SD only?


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## atek3 (Apr 24, 2012)

Update? 

Your call, but I wouldn't waste much real estate on an SD card reader. I'd focus on clean aesthetics. In fact I'd appreciate a version with a plain faceplate (ie no cutout to insert DVD's).

thanks
atek3


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## Lazzer408 (Apr 24, 2012)

It costs more to make 2 versions of any part but it had been considered. The more versatile I make the design the more it costs. Typically, every part requires a set-up fee even if it's something as simple as editing the drawing and blanking a hole. I'm working with a new machine shop now and I'll ask them if they can blank it out for a few pieces.

Not much more to update.

The biggest hurdle at the moment is production costs (lowering them). I could purchase a nice car for what material and tooling is costing me. The extruded pieces are purchased 2000lbs at a time. This makes 1000+ more chassis worth of material then needed for my first production run but I need the extrusions for some other products I'm working on.

The second issue is the power supply. I could sell the chassis without one and leave the end user to mess with it but I don't feel that's fair to those who can't cut/solder/splice custom cables. I may have to start pre-selling these supplies.

The last PSU tested is 485w continuous 520w max and has thermally controlled fans and active PFC. I'd rather have passive PFC (because it's more efficient) but their passive PFC model has major issues. The PSUs will have custom wiring, designed for this chassis, to eliminate cable management issues and increase airflow. I haven't settled with the factory on pricing but the cost to the end user should be well under $100.


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## atek3 (Apr 24, 2012)

I wouldn't go too crazy trying to shoehorn a massive PSU into a shoebox sized case. With a modern IVB chip at 77W and powerful GPU's in the ~200W range, Anything more than 350W would seem to be gravy. I mean my first concern would be heat output of a 7970 inside a small case then power concerns. 

I have an idea. Only make one case face, but ship the piece of aluminum that fills the hole smoothly. That way customers can choose ODD or no ODD.


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## Lazzer408 (Apr 25, 2012)

It's a SFF supply rated at 485w continuous. That leaves quite a bit of headroom for overclocking and future upgrades. There are other supplies to choose from like the FSP Group aka. Silverstone that's fairly common... FSP450-60GHS(85)-R  FSP Group FSP450-60GHS(85)-R 450W Micro ATX12V   8... ...but the quality of that supply is terrible. It did run my test system but it runs hot. The rectifiers use the steel case for a heatsink and it gets uncomfortably warm back there. They skimped on caps as well. I wouldn't trust it to last. My goal was to find a QUALITY supply and that happens to be a variant of a KDM that's 485w.

As far as GPU heat... If I fix the GPU fan at a set RPM, it runs cooler in this chassis then it does in my desktop. If I let the card's thermal management handle the fan, the GPU winds up at the same temp but the RPM is lower in the small chassis. Cooling the components was the first step in design. That was solved early during the testing of half a dozen prototypes with a dozen cooling options. The next step was determining which solution was cost effective to mass produce. I wouldn't have invested the time and money I have and "hope it works".


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## atek3 (Apr 25, 2012)

looks good. When do you think the first batch will ship


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## Lazzer408 (Apr 28, 2012)

atek3 said:


> looks good. When do you think the first batch will ship



I don't have a launch date set. I'm aiming for sometime this summer.


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## atek3 (May 7, 2012)

Ivy Bridge Dual Cores hit Q3. I'd be sweet if you released your case at roughly the same time... A Core i3-3220 would be the perfect CPU for a super thin gaming machine.

atek3


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## Lazzer408 (May 8, 2012)

That CPU would bottleneck the graphics capabilities.


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## atek3 (May 8, 2012)

In theory yes, but in practice, intel's fast dual cores are smoking hot:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-fx-pentium-apu-benchmark,3120.html

Look at the performance of the Core i3-2100. I agree on very CPU heavy games like SC2 and Civ5 you might be leaving a few frames on the table, but in any FPS, your GPU be far more important. Not to mention the fact that the Core i3-3220 is going to be between 10-15% faster than the Core i3-2100.


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## SI51 (May 13, 2012)

What city do you plan on shipping from? If close enough are pick-ups permitted? 

Thanks for your time,
Mike


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## illli (May 19, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> At this point in time it would be easy to make the adjustments to allow for an ATX power supply. The main reason I'm considering this is due to the high cost of a quality mATX supply. To fit an ATX unit, the chassis size would increase to 14~14.5(w) x 13.5(d) x 4"(h). I'm deviating from my origlnal design because I keep stuffing more options into it, but, the ATX supply would be significantly more alluring to people.




just wanted to say that i was thinking of designing something very, very similar to your concept you've posted. i would say just extend the height another half inch. the difference between 3.5 and 4 inches is not that noticeable. also it would solve the hassle of finding a decent power supply, people could just use their own. 

there might be an issue with longer cables etc, but what if you could raise up the motherboard a half inch or an inch? then you could just stuff all the extra cable underneath


oh and i'm not a huge fan of these buttons http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44811&stc=1&d=1324513827  aesthetically speaking, they seem to clash with each other, one is extruded, one is recessed.  would there be a way to make the buttons more flush with the faceplate?

i like your other concept too http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45440&d=1327499538 
 i like how there is a separate compartment for the video card. i'm guessing it might help keep the other components cooler.


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## Lazzer408 (May 20, 2012)

SI51 said:


> What city do you plan on shipping from? If close enough are pick-ups permitted?
> 
> Thanks for your time,
> Mike



Ships from 60002. Where are you located?



illli said:


> just wanted to say that i was thinking of designing something very, very similar to your concept you've posted. i would say just extend the height another half inch. the difference between 3.5 and 4 inches is not that noticeable. also it would solve the hassle of finding a decent power supply, people could just use their own.
> 
> there might be an issue with longer cables etc, but what if you could raise up the motherboard a half inch or an inch? then you could just stuff all the extra cable underneath
> 
> ...



The buttons in that image were a test of raised vs. recessed buttons. For cost reasons, the optical drive's eject button is a slightly raised solid aluminum button. The power button is flush with the faceplate. They are not next to each other either.

The chassis uses a SFX supply which are fairly common. There are many off-the-shelf SFX supplies that can power an ITX build+GPU. I was attempting to locate the best SFX supply I could find and order them with custom cables to offer a better solution then a retail unit.

The last link you posted is not my design but I do use a compartmentalized layout.


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## illli (May 20, 2012)

but including a psu would add additional cost, wouldn't it?  say compared to someone with a standard atx, they could just drop theirs in and go. i dont have numbers or research, but seems like having room for a standard sized psu would offer a lot more options for people.  designing one of these is tough b/c the bigger you make it the more flexibility you have.. but then you run the risk of losing the whole idea of building an itx system in the first place 

 but if you were to decide to go for smaller powersupplies, what about something such as the ones shuttle makes? Shuttle PC63 500W Power Supply Upgrade Kit for Shu...  theres also a few "tfx" sized ones as well..  Computer Hardware, Computer Cases, Power Supplies... not sure what the difference is between them and sfx.  theres even a modular 1u one http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=277 but the benefit of it being modular is debatable, and it is not too quiet  

btw i had a thought while typing this. if you were to somehow manage to lift the motherboard up high enough, you could fit the optical drive underneath.  so it might could serve dual purpose: psu cable management, and (maybe) reduce the overall footprint, it might not reduce it by much, but its an idea  http://i48.tinypic.com/2ziar69.jpg


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## SI51 (May 20, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> Ships from 60002. Where are you located?



60010 haha


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## Lazzer408 (May 21, 2012)

illli said:


> but including a psu would add additional cost, wouldn't it?  say compared to someone with a standard atx, they could just drop theirs in and go. i dont have numbers or research, but seems like having room for a standard sized psu would offer a lot more options for people.  designing one of these is tough b/c the bigger you make it the more flexibility you have.. but then you run the risk of losing the whole idea of building an itx system in the first place
> 
> but if you were to decide to go for smaller powersupplies, what about something such as the ones shuttle makes? Shuttle PC63 500W Power Supply Upgrade Kit for Shu...  theres also a few "tfx" sized ones as well..  Computer Hardware, Computer Cases, Power Supplies... not sure what the difference is between them and sfx.  theres even a modular 1u one http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=277 but the benefit of it being modular is debatable, and it is not too quiet
> 
> btw i had a thought while typing this. if you were to somehow manage to lift the motherboard up high enough, you could fit the optical drive underneath.  so it might could serve dual purpose: psu cable management, and (maybe) reduce the overall footprint, it might not reduce it by much, but its an idea  http://i48.tinypic.com/2ziar69.jpg



To answer some of this...

The chassis can be purchased with or without a supply.  I just wanted to offer a high quality supply that was custom designed for the chassis to avoided wiring problems for the builder. It is also quiet, powerful, runs cool, tested/verified to work, has 3yr warranty, and reasonably priced. The supply would be around $80-90 retail. I'm still working with the factory though and they are not ready yet. I've only recieved a test sample for...testing. It passed with great results. Their first two test samples (of other models) ran hot and failed miserably.

The Newegg link is TFX. The Shuttle link is a Flex-ATX. A Flex-ATX was the supply used in the very first (of 6) concept prototypes. Is was rejected due to the fan noise. TFX was rejected because it's a bit of an odd-ball size. SFX (aka, Micro-ATX) was small, more common, and had higher power availability. ATX was rejected due to the size.

Lifting the motherboard will decrease the clearance between the top of the CPU and the top of the chassis. This limits the number of coolers that fit. All the area unused under the board (board area - optical area) becomes unusable. It's better suited for airflow and coolers. The only advantage to relocating the optical would be room for another 2.5" drive (with alot of wasted area around it). I played with many layout options before the first concept proto was built. Even then, it took 6 of those to decied on one that fit the requirements listed below...

A chassis may seem like a simple enough product, which is true for the most part, but a SFF chassis takes ALOT of thought. A designer has to balance performance, cooling, noise, expandability, upgradability, options to suit the widest range of users, room for future models without complete redesign, esthetics, and finally cost. Once the layout was finalized in the concept prototypes, I proceeded to have parts machined that are as close to the production model as they can be. One-off maching is big bucks but it allowed me to verify the design before I pull the trigger on production runs. I mentioned it awhile ago but one of the biggest pain in the ass things to design was the power button. Cost was the biggest issue. Injection molding is extremely expensive in small (read: less then 1,000,000) quantities. Just one mold, for something as simple as the little plastic holder for switch, is $1000s. Say a mold is $5000. Say the plastic for one part is $.05. That amounts to $5.25 a piece for 1000pcs. It's .055 a part if I get 1,000,000pcs. Now do that for every part in the chassis. The unfortunate reality is the $55,000 investment for ONE part. I'm in the middle of all this cost balancing. That's what's causing the delay. That and Sweeta has the slowest comunications of all the suppliers. 



SI51 said:


> 60010 haha



Flatlander!


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## illli (May 21, 2012)

oh, well lifting the motherboard idea was just something i wondered about if you decided to raise the total height of the case. say you increased the height of the case by a half inch, and you raised the mobo a half inch, the clearance would be the same as previous   seems like the dimensions are pretty set though. 

hm. about that power button.  have you considered maybe placing it in the back and using something like this http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/pu...Bju-KTojcdpZmodvDGviln5WN1BvhJbTbB2iXrvQi7sAL

does not look as pretty but, at least in my household, we hardly turn our machines on or off (most of the time just hibernate).  evaluating the use vs. cost of a button.. seems expensive for such little use.


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## Lazzer408 (May 22, 2012)

illli said:


> oh, well lifting the motherboard idea was just something i wondered about if you decided to raise the total height of the case. say you increased the height of the case by a half inch, and you raised the mobo a half inch, the clearance would be the same as previous   seems like the dimensions are pretty set though.
> 
> hm. about that power button.  have you considered maybe placing it in the back and using something like this http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/pu...Bju-KTojcdpZmodvDGviln5WN1BvhJbTbB2iXrvQi7sAL
> 
> does not look as pretty but, at least in my household, we hardly turn our machines on or off (most of the time just hibernate).  evaluating the use vs. cost of a button.. seems expensive for such little use.



Thanks but I think the power button is sorted out but my mold is based off 'X' switch using 'Y' buttons except that the seller of those buttons hasn't got back to me with MOQs. If they dont, the people molding my switch retainers can machine the buttons into the same mold. Either way the design is still the same.


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## illli (Jun 8, 2012)

you might find this interesting http://www.kitguru.net/components/p...1st-modular-sfx-psu-goes-extreme-on-high-end/


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 8, 2012)

illli said:


> you might find this interesting http://www.kitguru.net/components/p...1st-modular-sfx-psu-goes-extreme-on-high-end/



Thanks for that info. That would be PERFECT for making custom cabling.


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## t_ski (Jun 8, 2012)

Silverstone does make a short cable set for their modular PSU's.


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 9, 2012)

t_ski said:


> Silverstone does make a short cable set for their modular PSU's.



Hence custom.

I can get the connectors and make a much nicer cable set then then PSU makers can do. The MOQ for custom cabling is expensive.


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 19, 2012)

There's delays but my other quote for the faceplates is back and it's less then 1/2 of the first quote. Found a great place for anodizing as well. All of the aluminum pieces will be refinished after machining then anodized by the same company so they will all have the same finish and color. Now I need to figure out if I want to drop ship 2000lbs of aluminum extrusions or do them a batch at a time. I'll most likely do batches. I'm going to need a bigger warehouse. o.o"


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## atek3 (Jun 20, 2012)

Summer still your target release date?

(Also, did you see that Afox released a half-height 7850 )


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 21, 2012)

atek3 said:


> Summer still your target release date?



It is summer but it's not done yet. I leased a 1200sqft building at the begining of the year so I have to play catch up for a little bit. Business is good though. The first month we made profit. That's a good thing. If you can break even in America, your a successful business. lol


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## atek3 (Jun 21, 2012)

how are you breaking even if i haven't been able to buy a case?


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 21, 2012)

atek3 said:


> how are you breaking even if i haven't been able to buy a case?



I opened a computer store a few months back. It has been profitable since the doors opened. I needed the space to store parts anyways. I can't exactly shove 2000lbs of aluminum in my bedroom closet.  The "breaking even" comment was scarcastic towards the poor American economy. As if statistically "breaking even" was a "successful business".

I'm only one guy over here making this case in my spare time. If I had a team of designers and a marketing department it would have been done months ago. It's very hard for a "nobody" to walk into a shop and get parts quotes. Most of the shops want annual production figures of very large volumes of parts. Sure I could have any job shop pop out a dozen cases but you won't want to pay $500 for it?


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## deleted (Jun 21, 2012)

If you're not completely set with your power switch choice, how about setting up a touch sensor so you can just tap the front of the case to turn it on, and turn it off in the OS (so you don't accidentally tap your computer and lose all of your work)? They're not unreasonably expensive (off the shelf touch lamp sensors are $5) and it would be an interesting way to set your case apart from the rest of the pack.


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 21, 2012)

deleted said:


> If you're not completely set with your power switch choice, how about setting up a touch sensor so you can just tap the front of the case to turn it on, and turn it off in the OS (so you don't accidentally tap your computer and lose all of your work)? They're not unreasonably expensive (off the shelf touch lamp sensors are $5) and it would be an interesting way to set your case apart from the rest of the pack.



Touch lamp sensors would not be off-the-shelf compatable with a PC. I'd have to gut the electronics from it and modify it for PC use. I'm paying 1/2 that for a PC snap switch with wiring and connectors, button (molded), and mount (molded).


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## illli (Jun 24, 2012)

i'm curious, do you plan on having some front usb/audio ports?  
also, about the pci-e riser, will it be 3.0 compliant? i dont know much about risers. are they all basically the same?  or are some better than others?


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 24, 2012)

illli said:


> i'm curious, do you plan on having some front usb/audio ports?
> also, about the pci-e riser, will it be 3.0 compliant? i dont know much about risers. are they all basically the same?  or are some better than others?



I will be adding front USB 3.0 in v2 of the chassis. The current design doesn't have any front ports. If I can source a USB cable before the faceplates are produced I'll add it. As for risers... Some are better then others. I've seen PCB risers that lack any ground plane in the PCB layers and others with extra filter caps on the riser itself. The ribbon style risers gave me problems but have worked for others. The riser I'm using is short with a ground plane and caps. I'm not sure what the PCIe standard allows for in terms of riser cards.

The chassis design lets me do just about anything I want to the faceplate. Any combination of LCD, Audio, USB 2.0, USB 3.0, or even firewire can be easily placed on front. If the graphics card isn't used, a 3.5" removable drive could even be made to fit.


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## TRWOV (Jun 24, 2012)

subd


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## illli (Jun 24, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> I will be adding front USB 3.0 in v2 of the chassis. The current design doesn't have any front ports. If I can source a USB cable before the faceplates are produced I'll add it. As for risers... Some are better then others. I've seen PCB risers that lack any ground plane in the PCB layers and others with extra filter caps on the riser itself. The ribbon style risers gave me problems but have worked for others. The riser I'm using is short with a ground plane and caps. I'm not sure what the PCIe standard allows for in terms of riser cards.



there are these little usb kits, not sure if it is universal, but i suppose it probably is http://www.aerocooler.com/shop.cart?action=ITEM&prod_id=CASSG11303260
 not sure if that is cheap or expensive, but thats just one usb kit i found. 

about the bracket, i had read some previous replies about the experience with ribbon cables, so i was starting to rule those out for myself.  i originally had this weird concept where i would make a case but have the video card kind of fold back and sit above the motherboard (was using an h100 so heatsink clearance was no issue).  it all hinged on using a ribbon cable, but after reading your comments i dont think that idea would work very well because of those problems you described.  on the other hand i dont know too much about the brackets either.  in the end it seems like your concept is the closest to what i had been planning. so if/when you sell them i might end up buying one of your cases and seeing about modifying it. 

ps. i forgot to ask this earlier but the space you have for optical drive, does it allow for 3.5 inch size or restricted to those laptop drives?  and about "Custom solid copper CPU cooler. (Will not support stock or aftermarket coolers)"  ...is this still in the works too?


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 24, 2012)

illli said:


> there are these little usb kits, not sure if it is universal, but i suppose it probably is http://www.aerocooler.com/shop.cart?action=ITEM&prod_id=CASSG11303260
> not sure if that is cheap or expensive, but thats just one usb kit i found.
> 
> about the bracket, i had read some previous replies about the experience with ribbon cables, so i was starting to rule those out for myself.  i originally had this weird concept where i would make a case but have the video card kind of fold back and sit above the motherboard (was using an h100 so heatsink clearance was no issue).  it all hinged on using a ribbon cable, but after reading your comments i dont think that idea would work very well because of those problems you described.  on the other hand i dont know too much about the brackets either.  in the end it seems like your concept is the closest to what i had been planning. so if/when you sell them i might end up buying one of your cases and seeing about modifying it.
> ...



That front panel board is a bit pricy.

Ribbon risers work if you shield them with aluminum tape.

The optical drive is a slot-load slim (laptop) SATA drive. The 2.5" HDD/SSD mounts below the optical drive. I think you mean 5.25"? Not in this little box. lol

The case will work with OEM coolers (and quite a few of the slim aftermarket coolers including the 120mm ones) IF the top cover is vented. The cable management gets tight with 120mm coolers because -someone- decided ITX boards were going to relocate the SATA ports to the other corner of the board. Idiots.  I have to order longer SATA cables now and they have to be routed to the other end of the board using stick-on cable ties or something of that nature.


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## illli (Jun 24, 2012)

yeah sorry 5.25 lol
 i havent gone back and read it, but i thought from what you wrote earlier, that a ribbon kind of worked but it did not seem too reliable.  i'd take reliability any day, so i'm not sure i'd take the chance on halfway maybe working on my near $500 video card i just bought.  unless i can find one that is guaranteed to work  
 however one of the worries i have with the other type bracket is it faces the card downward. i'm curious about if being so close to the bottom, that would 'starve' it for cooler air.  i think that is probably how i was considering the ribbon, that i'd be able to flip the card over and have the fans on the videocard near the top of the case with little airflow restrictions as opposed to the having it cramped near the bottom.


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 24, 2012)

illli said:


> one of the worries i have with the other type bracket is it faces the card downward. i'm curious about if being so close to the bottom, that would 'starve' it for cooler air.  i think that is probably how i was considering the ribbon, that i'd be able to flip the card over and have the fans on the videocard near the top of the case with little airflow restrictions as opposed to the having it cramped near the bottom.



There's a .200" gap between the removable component tray and the bottom of the chassis. It's wider then the gap between two cards in an SLI configuration. Blowers are able to draw air in through a narrow gap unlike axial fans. The chassis also sits on feet which allow me to vent the bottom cover if I wanted to but it wasn't necessary. The space between the tray and the bottom cover has vent slits in the rear (not show in the pics). A GPU will run cooler this way then with it's blower's inlet facing into the chassis where it can draw in warmer air. Even if the chassis is only 10c warmer inside, that's a 10c rise in GPU temp -or- the GPU fan will have to run faster to maintain it. Even with some overclocking, I didn't have any issues with heat. If I did, I'd still be working on the design.


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## illli (Jun 25, 2012)

thats interesting indeed.  i thought the opposite would happen, but if it runs cooler in a face down position then thats great


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## triclops41 (Jun 26, 2012)

looking forward to this, and feel free to share as many pics as you want!
I have an alienware x51 with a 7850 in there, but i am always on the lookout for something even better.


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## triclops41 (Jun 26, 2012)

i know its kinda late in the build to go fiddling around with major configurations, but I was wondering what your thoughts were on the accelero hybrid as part of the build.  Fitting a 120mm fan and the cooling block wouldn't take up much space, and would provide flexibility for choosing where the heat would be exhausted.  It would also make the system quite silent.  Just throwing the idea out there.
This looks absolutely great.


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 26, 2012)

triclops41 said:


> i know its kinda late in the build to go fiddling around with major configurations, but I was wondering what your thoughts were on the accelero hybrid as part of the build.  Fitting a 120mm fan and the cooling block wouldn't take up much space, and would provide flexibility for choosing where the heat would be exhausted.  It would also make the system quite silent.  Just throwing the idea out there.
> This looks absolutely great.



For one, you're right it won't fit and would take too many modifications to make it fit. For two, overclocking graphics cards yeilds little performance gains. Spend your Accelero Hybrid cost ($150) on a better GPU. 

Next thing you guys are going to want CF/SLI in a SFF computer... oh wait, that's already on the drawing board.


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## illli (Jun 26, 2012)

yeah that accelero is way too expensive.  one could just buy the dwood antec kuhler bracket for like $10 and fit one of those on a video card (and saving about $90 if not more in the process)


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## Winston_008 (Jun 27, 2012)

is this the same layout as your case, just wondering
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168254


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 27, 2012)

Apperently Falcon Northwest, who when contacted was "uninterested in getting into the SFF market", has now built a system that's almost EXACTLY like what I showed them two years ago. So, anyone buying the Falcon can thank me for it.  Now where's my lawyers number...

Sorry guys. There's just NO ROOM IN AMERICA for an entrepreneur. It takes one corporate theft to kill a dream.


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## illli (Jun 27, 2012)

well from what i saw, it looks like they wont be selling that case individually.  i only saw mention that you'd have to buy an entire system from them, which i would not do.  some might, but i know a lot of us like to build our own


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 27, 2012)

If they designed it and had it built in China then China is already making them. It's only a matter of time before the market is swamped with mITX gaming cases.


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## MarioDeshon (Jun 27, 2012)

very good.


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## triclops41 (Jun 27, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> If they designed it and had it built in China then China is already making them. It's only a matter of time before the market is swamped with mITX gaming cases.



I would not be so sure that cases will be available outside of FNW.  The Alienware x51 cases are nowhere to be found, yet those things came out in January.  If your case had been out by then, there is no way I would have bought an X51, and there are many of us in the same boat.

Just like the boutique GPU cooling solutions of iBuypower, FNW has an interest in making that case unavailable separately.  If one could buy it and put together one's own system for much less, that is a huge hindrance to FNW selling many of these things.  They need to make that case hard to find in order to protect the large margins on these systems.

Don't get discouraged.


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## Avelict (Jun 27, 2012)

I smell legal action with FNW...

But srsly, super excited about your product, always been a fan of ITX builds, as far along as you are in the project, do you have a rough estimate of a shelf price? If so, what is it?!


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## ChronoDog (Jun 28, 2012)

Please don't get discouraged because of FNW, it's not the same.
They will make damn sure their case will not be available anywhere, and to be honest
even if your case ends up costing $500, I'd still buy it - and so would many others here.

One thing you should definitely do is start some sort of legal action against them before
you start selling your finished product - otherwise they'll do it to you 

Either way, keep up the great work you're doing and keep us posted!


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## Kantastic (Jun 28, 2012)

ChronoDog said:


> Please don't get discouraged because of FNW, it's not the same.
> They will make damn sure their case will not be available anywhere, and to be honest
> even if your case ends up costing $500, I'd still buy it - and so would many others here.
> 
> ...



I'm not going to lie, if I can get a similar case for a fraction of the cost, I would. I'm all for supporting the little brother or the underdog, but at the end of the day it all depends on which product offers me the most for my money. Still, I hate to see Lazzer get shafted by FNW so I hope justice takes its course.


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## ChronoDog (Jun 28, 2012)

Kantastic said:


> I'm not going to lie, if I can get a similar case for a fraction of the cost, I would. I'm all for supporting the little brother or the underdog, but at the end of the day it all depends on which product offers me the most for my money. Still, I hate to see Lazzer get shafted by FNW so I hope justice takes its course.


I highly doubt it that any company would be able to offer a full-aluminum case with all of these features
for much less than that, just look at the pricetags on the likes of the Luxa series by Thermaltake.

Either way, I think that this original idea is worth fighting for, and would be quite sad to see Lazzer just giving up
on it altogether after all of this time and effort. There has to be a way!


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## Mindweaver (Jun 28, 2012)

Lazzer408 said:


> Apperently Falcon Northwest, who when contacted was "uninterested in getting into the SFF market", has now built a system that's almost EXACTLY like what I showed them two years ago. So, anyone buying the Falcon can thank me for it.  Now where's my lawyers number...
> 
> Sorry guys. There's just NO ROOM IN AMERICA for an entrepreneur. It takes one corporate theft to kill a dream.



I hope you get justice. If you don't then... Falcon Northwest is known for selling whole systems. I doubt they would hit the same market as you.. Unless you plan to sell whole systems, and not just the case. Plus Fnw isn't known for selling cheap stuff so you could actual under cut them, and still make out well based on there prices. If it's any help.. I like your brushed aluminum look better than there painted case.


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 29, 2012)

Thanks everyone for all the support. It's always been very encouraging from day one to see so much interest in the project. I'm too far along to throw in the towel but it is a disappointment that FNW hit the streets with something before I finished. As far as pricing goes. My goal was to keep it below $200. I'd really like to see it come with the PSU for under $200 but that doesn't look like it's going to happen until I can get larger volumes of supplies. So, under $250~275ish with PSU, under $200 without. That's about where pricing stands for now.

I have documentation from 2008 when I was dabbling in the idea of this chassis and documentation on it's progress since then. There's price quotes, parts orders, and other legal history to prove that. It's my own mistake of going to FNW and Dell in the first place. Corporations don't like us little guys.


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## Norrec69 (Jun 29, 2012)

If you case came out before the x51 I wouldnt have bought it either. I love the form factor of these type of cases. Hope your case comes out.


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## strider999 (Jun 29, 2012)

First off, I love the concept and I am in the market for a small itx gaming rig case. 

You said that v2 will have front usb ports and audio, and I cant stress how important that is for me as a gamer. I am constantly on ventrillo, mumble, gtalk, and skype, and I need front audio ports to plug my headset into. And I need to easily unplug it when I am not gaming.

If internal space is a concern, I would get rid of the optical drive bay completely. I havent used optical discs in forever, and I wouldnt mind getting an external dvd drive if I really need one. Space for hard drives is much better internal use than an optical drive, imo. 

I just purchased an asrock z77e itx board and a xfx 7850 video card and i think they are beautiful pieces of hardware. A plexiglass "L" shaped window to show off the motherboard and video card would really be icing on the cake.

If you are also thinking about building other itx oriented cases, I would love to see what you come up with in regards to an itx case that fits a full length video card(~280+mm), atx or matx powersupply, and full sized cpu fan and heatsink, in a small form factor. The only case that really accomplishes this is the Abee T20R which is no longer manufactured and was only sold in japan. Abee acubic T20R


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 30, 2012)

strider999 said:


> If you are also thinking about building other itx oriented cases, I would love to see what you come up with in regards to an itx case that fits a full length video card(~280+mm), atx or matx powersupply, and full sized cpu fan and heatsink, in a small form factor. The only case that really accomplishes this is the Abee T20R which is no longer manufactured and was only sold in japan. Abee acubic T20R



The model I've focused on can hold a 12" card (304.8mm). The chassis design is aimed at being thin vs. a cube. It will fit a OEM heatsink if that's what you mean by "full-sized". If you mean the large 120mm towers then no, they don't fit.


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## Avelict (Jun 30, 2012)

Keep on kicking ass Lazzer, screw FNW and put me down for an order when you finish!


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## Lazzer408 (Jul 7, 2012)

We're kicking ass that's for sure. My computer business (Titan Computers) is doing well and today I received the approval on the new location.  I've only been open for a few months and limited to 600sq-ft to work. The new location is right smack in the middle of downtown with 1700sq-ft to work with. Retail sales and service should blossom and help fund my goal of bringing the line of ITX chassis to market. I have a great partner working his but off to help make it happen.

As for the USB ports you've asked about... I can do 2 USB +phones/mic in front. You'll could choose between a USB 2.0 or 3.0 port set depending on the boards your using. I didn't want to leave out the 2.0 option for those still running perfectly capable older hardware. -OR- I'm still looking into it but if I can locate a 3.0 to 2.0 adaptor (on the motherboard side) I may simply equip 3.0 ports and include the adaptor. More cost effective that way.


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## ChronoDog (Jul 11, 2012)

One could always order this Corsair adapter or a similar product from Coolermaster


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## illli (Jul 21, 2012)

looks like you might be getting some competition   http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...hassis-(100-aluminum-ITX-and-made-in-America)


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## Winston_008 (Jul 21, 2012)

illli said:


> looks like you might be getting some competition   http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...hassis-(100-aluminum-ITX-and-made-in-America)



Looks like it uses a power brick instead of an sfx psu. Whilst being a bit smaller i think it has a more narrow market than lazzers, because you can put in a 7970 or such, instead of being limited to a 180w brick. You gotta wonder though if he copied or not though?


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## pantherx12 (Jul 21, 2012)

Why am I not subbed to this thread?

SUBBED!



Winston_008 said:


> Looks like it uses a power brick instead of an sfx psu. Whilst being a bit smaller i think it has a more narrow market than lazzers, because you can put in a 7970 or such, instead of being limited to a 180w brick. You gotta wonder though if he copied or not though?



I doubt they copied, I've wanted to build a case that's very similar for ages.

I just don't have access to the materials/tools/money.

Although I was planning on somehow jamming a full size PSU inside ( Without it's casing/fan etc)


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## illli (Jul 21, 2012)

i dont know if he got copied.   there really isnt too many ways a person can make a small case like this.  you either go horizontal or vertical.  either it ends up looking like a shoebox, as what you see in sugo and shuttle cases, or it looks like nfc/titan.   
 i forgot to mention though, the guy building the nfc case commented he wont be selling them separately. i missed the part about the power brick. i never liked those.


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## illli (Jul 24, 2012)

silverstone now has a product page up for the ST45SF-G  http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=342&area=usa


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 6, 2012)

I'm still tied up with the new shop and it's been one mess after another.  I guess that's to be expected of a building built in 1904 that's been nothing but retail since. Here's a couple pics of the progress. Check out that wood floor that was burried under 4 layers of carpet and tile. Part of that floor was damaged beyond reasonable repair costs so only the front half was refinished. I estimate it was laid down in the 40s or 50s then burried. The service shop is up and running so some money is coming in but I seem to be spending it just as fast as I make it. I'm at least a week behind schedule for the opening mainly due to electrical issues. There's 9 can lights and one of them had a short to "ground". Well, what was supposed to be ground wasn't. Everything was grounded together but no ground back to the panel so everything that should have been grounded was live. Yeh, we found that out the hard way when my partner lit himself up grabing a box while leaning on another box that WAS grounded. I spent a week+ pulling romex wiring and running everything new in conduit. I would appreciate all this work a lot more if I actually owned the building.

I hired on a tech part time to help catch up on things while I build the showroom. He used to be the lead tech for Tiger direct.

Here's the before and after pics. Take a look at the lighting in the first pic. There were 1760w worth of 8' fluorescent fixtures from the 60s lighting the place through 4x2 diffusers dropped in the ceiling tracks that are 3' below the fixtures. I now have 4' T8 fixtures totaling 240w and it's a lot brighter in here. Also notice the new wall to hide my messy shop from the customers. It's really not that messy. The 3rd pic is one of two L shaped work benches behind the wall. Eventually I'll have the monitors wall mounted but for now at least I can get something done. And the 4th is shot looking forward to the front of the store.

*BEFORE*





*AFTER*




*THE SHOP*



*THE SHOWROOM*


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## illli (Aug 10, 2012)

thats a lot of modification!  but those wood floors look pretty sweet 

ps. if anyone is interested they are listing the psu on amazon so they should be hitting the market pretty soon elsewhere  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008VQ2Y4K/?tag=tec06d-20

edit: showing up on newegg now too  SILVERSTONE ST45SF-G 450W SFX12V SLI Ready CrossFi...

wonder how loud the fan is


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## TheRealEdwin (Aug 24, 2012)

Hey Lazzer408,

I registered here just to show you support on your mini ITX case that FNW seems to have copied. I am in the process of building speccing out a machine and would love to get a case that is similar to the Tiki, which apparently you designed first.

Have you considered doing a Kickstarter or IndieGoGo to raise funds? This may be a great way to capital for finishing the design, getting prototypes made and then actually getting them into production.

I wish you the best of luck in your new store and the case. I'll be keeping an eye out on the thread.

-Edwin


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## Lordlegend (Sep 6, 2012)

I've been watching the progress of this project for a while and it looks very promising.
I was just wondering the status of this project and if there were any timelines.
Also, have the final specs/options been set? Pricing?

thx
LL


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## MightyMouth (Oct 11, 2012)

*Is there any progress on this?*

I came across these forums while searching for exactly this type of case and would buy one today if it were available. Any news on when we can give you our money?


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 11, 2012)

Yes there is still progress on the project. Awhile back I had some incompatibility issues with the CAD file format I had it drawn in. There's 2 guys working on 3d models again to optimize costs and fix an issue with the bend radius on the sheetmetal. We had to reverse engineer the K factor based on the dies used in forming. The powersupply manufacture seems to have withdrawn from the project as he's no longer in contact with me since blowing 2 sample units at much less then rated load.


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## ChronoDog (Oct 21, 2012)

Lazzer, please let us start throwing our money at you already!
I want that case of yours so badly, after trying a few different layouts myself, none of which proved to be efficient enough...
If the power supply is the only thing holding you back, then please, sell me one without a PSU - I'll manage


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## illli (Oct 21, 2012)

yeah i dont understand that either.  just let us use that silverstone psu that i've posted about above (unless that was actually the one that blew up lol)


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 21, 2012)

I would sell it without the PSU...once it's in production. I didn't have any problem with that. The project was stalled for awhile because my CAD guy bailed on me 95% into the project. I have a new guy solid modeling it now. He said he'd be working on it this weekend.

I'm a hardware guy, not software. With hardware, it's in my hands and I say what goes and we all get along. With software, if something doesnt work I know it's because some idiot designed it not to in the code.


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 22, 2012)

Anyone have a USB 3.0 slot cover?

EDIT - NVM. I just ordered 4 samples. Yes, you guys will get your 2.0 -or- 3.0 front ports.


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 23, 2012)

There are two ways to go with USB ports in front. I've doodled two locations A and B on the faceplate. The other pic is the USB 2.0 and 3.0 samples I recieved. They are easy to get and fairly inexpensive. The long one (blue) is a 3.0 cable that would reach from the mainboard to position A. The 2.0 cable will only reach position B. My opinion is that position A is a better location for the ports. I'll have to search around for a longer 2.0 cable to reach position A. I'd like to offer the faceplate with options of no ports, 2.0 ports, and 3.0 ports.

Opinions?


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## ChronoDog (Oct 23, 2012)

Position B is awkward either way you put the case - both horizontally and vertically, since whatever you plug in it will sort of be "stuck in the middle".
I vote for position A, but perhaps closer to the middle of the panel (height-wise), that would make more sense imho.


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## illli (Oct 23, 2012)

i'm more of a fan of 'clean' front.  i know it was not an option, but what about placing them on the left or right panel, or even the top panel?  or maybe vertically above the power button?


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 23, 2012)

illli said:


> i'm more of a fan of 'clean' front.  i know it was not an option, but what about placing them on the left or right panel, or even the top panel?  or maybe vertically above the power button?



Because if someone wants to use it in a home theater environment, they may not have access to the sides or top.

Chronodog - It will be centered. I drew B first to allow clearance for the optical drive. I drew (doodled?) A at approximately the same height.

Anyone know of a slim SD/USB all-in-one PCB that's small enough to fit on the left side in position A?

Something like this...


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## illli (Oct 24, 2012)

i realize that, but if someone wanted a cleaner/unblemished front then they would not have access to -any- front usb ports at all


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 24, 2012)

illli said:


> i realize that, but if someone wanted a cleaner/unblemished front then they would not have access to -any- front usb ports at all



If I had the capitol, I'd put a door in the front. Care to donate?  Thermaltake, for example, has a revenue of $3.1B. Companies like that can afford million unit runs that dilute those costs over many units (and many products). They can also afford to rip me off.


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 25, 2012)

Some good news...

We are now Titan Computers LLC.


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## stupido (Oct 26, 2012)

Congrats!

As for the plates, I personally would like to be able to reroute all rear USB's to front...

so in short - front plate could have opening that by default could be closed, or if option requested, plate removed and other plate with 4 USB connectors placed...

just a stupid idea...


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## Lazzer408 (Oct 26, 2012)

No ideas are ever stupid. If someone has an idea, it's usually to solve a problem that makes their life easier. 

Most it'll have are 2 ports in front. You could velcro a hub to the side if you need more?


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## Lazzer408 (Nov 18, 2012)

The other CAD designer bailed on me. He got tied up doing work projects. I'm back to searching for someone to finalize these drawings. >.<


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## Diverge (Jan 12, 2013)

I like the looks of your prototype. I'd be interested in buying one without the display, or any card readers, ect. Just a power button, and 1/2 usb ports is all you need. IMO displays aren't practical. I bought like a $400 Oregon AE case to build a HTPC because I loved the idea of the display.... but in actual use it's useless, and most software for them just suck.

So my suggestion to you would be to go without one. Keep it minimalistic looking, and save some $$$. 

I actually have some new PC components laid out on my desk, hooked up and working, in the same configuration as your case. Next week I have some Openbeam parts coming, and I was going to see what I could make. If I could buy the prototype of yours I saw some pages back w/o the display I would. I like it alot. Nice and clean looking.

edit: Here's a picture of how I envision the layout:











Ideally the case would be as think as the Seasonic X750 PSU there, or a little thicker to accommodate the AXP-140 heatsink and fan I plan to use. motherboard CPU would pull in air from one side, and GPU and ATX supply from the otherside. With the PSU oriented as show, you have just enough clearance for the modular cables to pass out over the backside of the GPU, and for the AC cord use a right angle to a rear mounted socket, with the exhaust out that side.


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## Lazzer408 (Feb 3, 2013)

They keep trying... but god does it look like crap. That's exactly the reason I'm not having some sheetmetal job shop bang out powder-coated garbage.

http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadbolt.asp?id=771127&price=$1,599

"cool and quiet" Not with a 1U supply. Ben there done that. It was ruled out very early in the development stage.


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## Sean.Crees (Feb 20, 2013)

Love the layout, sent you a PM with some questions because I hadn't read this whole thread yet and thought you might have thrown in the towel after seeing FNW steal your idea.

One problem I keep seeing with all these other boutique sellers make is the cases only work vertically.  

There are only 2 issues I have with your design.  

First, the optical drive.  People still use those?  I suppose I can just try to ignore the unused slot on the front panel and just not put an optical drive in it, but a clean front would be preferable.  

Second is the lack of space for three slot GPU cooling solutions.  I asked in the PM if you could flip the GPU with a pci-e flexible cable, then read in this thread why you don't want to do that.  Could you instead do a normal riser card but raise the graphics card up one more slot?  You would lose the optical drive.

I come from a silencing PC perspective.  70mm fans are NOT quiet.  How about 120mm fans on the top and bottom for CPU and GPU cooling?  I'd probably use the scythe big shuriken CPU cooler, and for the GPU I'd want to use something like the Arctic Cooling Twin Turbo II without the fans and use a Nexus 120mm fan on the bottom of the chassis blowing cool air onto the heatsink.  Three expansion slots would allow for that.  Also people could use that third expansion slot for other things, like fan control, light control, extra USB connectors etc.

Have you thought about doing a crowd sourcing project like these guys?  http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ncase-m1-prototype-a-mini-itx-case?c=home


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## Lazzer408 (Feb 20, 2013)

Sean.Crees said:


> One problem I keep seeing with all these other boutique sellers make is the cases only work vertically.
> 
> 70mm fans are NOT quiet.  How about 120mm fans on the top and bottom for CPU and GPU cooling?



The chassis can sit horizontally or vertically. The two 70mm fans are thermally controlled and when the GPU isn't under load (and blowing hot air on them) they are very quiet. When under load, the GPU fan made more noise. I haven't had a chance to test axial fan cooled cards. The chassis was intended to use GPUs with a "reference-style" blower but many manufactures have started using the cheaper axial fan coolers. The 70mm fans can be controlled from a 4-pin mobo fan header if you wanted. A suitable PWM controller will be in the accessories section. The controllers, fans, and 3pin splitters are in stock.

Many people still have large DVD collections or enjoy copying collections to the hard drive. A bluray drive could also be used. The slot itself, if I remember correctly, is a 0.160" high 5" wide oval with a radiused edge around it's opening. Once anodized, it's not much of an eye sore. I chose slot-load drives over tray-load to keep the face aesthetically pleasing.

120mm fans won't fit and are not needed. 

Crowd sourcing or pre-sale group buys was considered but there's always the risk of something going wrong and I'd hate to be a letdown to my customers if a deadline wasn't met, the required amount of funds wasn't reached, or manufacturing delays interfered with a proper release.


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## Sean.Crees (Feb 20, 2013)

Any fan spinning faster than 1000rpm is too loud, and a 70mm fan spinning that slow isn't going to push enough air.  Also there are tonality issues with 70mm fans.  Finding quiet 80mm, or 120mm fans is much easier.  The bigger the fan, the slower it can spin and still give proper cooling.  Personally I don't run any fans over 800rpm in any of my systems.

Also all stock GPU heatsink/fans are too loud, hence necessitating some sort of aftermarket cooling.  All aftermarket air coolers I can find are 3 slot solutions only.

That all said, my biggest hurdle has always been finding the right sized enclosure, and your enclosure is as close to the perfect size I've been able to find.  I can always just buy a riser card one slot higher and mod your chassis to fit it.  There appears to be enough vertical clearance for it to fit.  Then just use a 4.75" hole saw to cut fan holes in the top and bottom.  I'd probably want top and bottom panels without vents so the final product looks clean.  I'd rather have wire fan grills than stamped vents in the case panels.


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## Lazzer408 (Feb 21, 2013)

Sean.Crees said:


> Any fan spinning faster than 1000rpm is too loud, and a 70mm fan spinning that slow isn't going to push enough air.  Also there are tonality issues with 70mm fans.



The fans don't need to move alot of air when the system is idle. When under load they will kick up but the GPU is still louder. Aftermarket coolers are quieter but if you raise the GPU, you will loose the optical, 2.5", and 3.5" mounts. You can probably stick a 2.5" on top of the PSU. At this point there's enough room there.

What you intend with 120mm fans will take some moding. I don't think your going to get a 120mm fan anywhere in here (except above the CPU) unless you raise the GPU and use a 2-slot GPU cooler. Then you will have room for a 120mm and a drive or two.


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## Sean.Crees (Feb 21, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> The fans don't need to move alot of air when the system is idle. When under load they will kick up but the GPU is still louder. Aftermarket coolers are quieter but if you raise the GPU, you will loose the optical, 2.5", and 3.5" mounts. You can probably stick a 2.5" on top of the PSU. At this point there's enough room there.
> 
> What you intend with 120mm fans will take some moding. I don't think your going to get a 120mm fan anywhere in here (except above the CPU) unless you raise the GPU and use a 2-slot GPU cooler. Then you will have room for a 120mm and a drive or two.



All I need is a single 2.5" drive bay.  I only use SSDs in my systems and use external NAS for mass storage.  Keeps the computers quiet and allows the data to be used by multiple systems.

Your case is 3.5" thick which is the same as 2U cases.  2U allows for 75mm high CPU coolers.  The Big Shuriken is 45mm, and the 120mm nexus is 25mm, leaving 5mm to spare.  So no problems with a 120mm fan on the CPU.

I have found 2U cases with 3 horizontal expansion slots, so I know I can get a riser card one higher than what you are using now and it'll fit.  That would give me enough space under a 2 slot GPU for a 120mm fan.

That gives me a system with 2 120mm fans running at 800rpm, and the PSU fan with no mechanical HDDs.  The loudest thing would probably be the 80mm fan in the PSU.


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## Sean.Crees (Feb 21, 2013)

What about making the GPU 1 slot higher and putting the optical/drive bays under the GPU instead of above it?  It shouldn't affect price, size, or drive capabilities, and it would allow those that don't want an optical drive and instead a 3 slot GPU to do so.


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## Lazzer408 (Feb 21, 2013)

I wanted the GPU inlet on the bottom of the chassis. If the GFX were to draw in say ~10c warmer air (from inside the chassis) the GFX's fan would have to run faster. Remember, this was designed to suit a wide market and offer as many features as I could fit in the space allowed. There are likely more people who would use a 3.5" or 3.5"+SSD then there are -only- an SSD with a 3-slot GFX card. In addition, those who do not want to use a GFX card can add another 3.5" drive. If someone wanted to make a 2-drive NAS out of this (plus an SSD for OS), they can.


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## Sean.Crees (Feb 21, 2013)

Well either way ill be buying one as soon as they are available.  Speaking of which, any idea when they might be available to buy?

Just don't be upset if the first thing I do with it is hack it up with a dremel and hole saw.


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## Sean.Crees (Feb 25, 2013)

So i was wondering if you knew where the cheapest place to get a 1 off steel chassis made?  You seem to have contacted numerous contractors to get lots of quotes for this case, i thought maybe you might be able to recommend someone to me.

Here are some pics of what I'm thinking of, it's 12.5" x 12.5", x 3.5".  I drew up the case and a basic layout for it in Sketchup.  I left the PC components intentionally vague so as to not slow down Sketchup when panning view around.  The black parts are a foam duct and thermal barrier.  As you can see i had to shave about 2mm off the top of the SFX PSU to get the 120mm fan to fit above it.

The case is very detailed though, and i left out cutouts on purpose.  I figure the hardest part is getting the case the right size.  I can do all the hole cutouts and internal structural work myself.  I wanted to keep it as simple as possible so as to keep cost of production down.  I'd only want 1, so i don't have to worry about spending a bunch of time cutting holes for every case like you do. 

What do you think?  See any potential pitfalls?  You've been through this process further than i have, so i figure you would have more insight than I.


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## Lazzer408 (Feb 25, 2013)

Sean.Crees said:


> So i was wondering if you knew where the cheapest place to get a 1 off steel chassis made?



I don't. Parts are all fairly expensive due to the setup time for the machines. I personally know the owners of the shops in my area so it was somewhat inexpensive for me to get rapid prototyping. I would suggest going to a local shop (bring your completed and accurate prints, dxf, dwf, step, cad, etc) and speak with someone there. Some shops don't mind knocking out a part or two to help get you started.


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## Sean.Crees (Feb 27, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> I had some updated parts test cut on some scrap today. Here's the 13.5x3.5" rear panel. Judging by the I/O shield, you can get a better idea of it's size.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44830&stc=1&d=1324597525



So i was going over the sketchup I'm making for the case i want, and i noticed a discrepancy with your backplate.  I'm designing mine to use a 2U riser card just like you said you're doing with yours, but my backplate cutout for expansion cards is a full slot higher than yours.  Are you using a 1U riser card by mistake, or by design?

This is what the back of my case looks like so far.


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## Sean.Crees (Feb 28, 2013)

I think i have finally finished this sketchup model.  I have double and triple checked every measurement.  Here are pics with the top cover closed.  If you'd like i can send you the sketchup i have, maybe it could help you with your case.


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## Lazzer408 (Feb 28, 2013)

Google sketchup is ok to whip up concept drawings but I don't think it will output a format that can head straight to the shop for production. A laser or waterjet would likely use a DXF format that's ready to go with all your edges, holes, bend radius/k-factors, and relief radiuses in place. Those values will depend on the material type, thickness, and machines being used.

That seems like an aweful lot of air flow.  Just a heads up on axial fans... They do not function well when placed near an object (on it's inlet side) closer then roughly the fans thickness. A 120x25mm fan, for example, should be 25mm away from anything. Try it on the desk when you get a chance. The 360 slim uses an axial as a puller right against the heatsink. I bet that fan is opperating below 50% of it's rated cfm. It was cheap and easy for MS though.



Sean.Crees said:


> I think i have finally finished this sketchup model.  I have double and triple checked every measurement.  Here are pics with the top cover closed.  If you'd like i can send you the sketchup i have, maybe it could help you with your case.


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## Sean.Crees (Mar 1, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> Google sketchup is ok to whip up concept drawings but I don't think it will output a format that can head straight to the shop for production. A laser or waterjet would likely use a DXF format that's ready to go with all your edges, holes, bend radius/k-factors, and relief radiuses in place. Those values will depend on the material type, thickness, and machines being used.
> 
> That seems like an aweful lot of air flow.  Just a heads up on axial fans... They do not function well when placed near an object (on it's inlet side) closer then roughly the fans thickness. A 120x25mm fan, for example, should be 25mm away from anything. Try it on the desk when you get a chance. The 360 slim uses an axial as a puller right against the heatsink. I bet that fan is opperating below 50% of it's rated cfm. It was cheap and easy for MS though.



I was reading online, and there is a free utility i can get to convert the sketchup into any of the CAD formats.  I was very detailed in all of my measurements, sometimes down to 6 decimal places of a millimeter.  The only thing i wasn't sure how to do was bend radius', i just did 90 degree bends.  

The three axial fans on top are intake, so there wont' be anything near the inlet side, the inlet side is the top of the case.  I am going to use Scythe Gentle Typhoons which are known to have great static pressure, and are double ball bearing so using them in a horizontal position won't hamper them at all.  Gentle Typhoons are also one of the quietest fans on the market if you get the 800rpm version.  They are around 30CFM each.  The only axial fan that may have issues is the thin one under the graphics card, it only has around a 1/4" space under it, but it's just there to provide some sort of airflow to the VRM's, it doesn't have to be a lot, just as long as it's better than nothing.  It's more to direct air, not to move air, and i may not even need it i just put it there in case i do.  There are no exhaust fans, this is a positive air pressure design.  PSU air is directed out the side via a foam duct, so PSU air won't increase internal case temperatures at all.  All other hot air from the CPU and GPU are exhausted out the back of the chassis.


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## Lazzer408 (Mar 1, 2013)

Sean.Crees said:


> The only thing i wasn't sure how to do was bend radius', i just did 90 degree bends.



Depends on the dies and materials. As long as you have the folded od the shops can figure it out.


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## jobsmxli (Mar 9, 2013)

So I my suppose this product is not going that well. Anyway, I'll find the ml05 fun to play with.


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## darckhart (May 4, 2013)

found your thread while googling. very interested in this project. any new progress?


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## OneMoar (May 9, 2013)

anything on this little bit of awesome ? I want one


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## Lazzer408 (May 13, 2013)

It amounts to me not being able to find a cad guy willing to work on the side. Those that own the software paid 1000s for it and charge just as much to draw with it. It's a shame really because I know a fluent designer could whip this up in a few hours. That and my hands are tied between my store and my vehicle. The store is doing well and soon I'll have the funds to bite the bullet and pay these guys.

Everything is sourced though and just waiting on production quality drawings. Sorry about the delays.


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## Main Performance PC (Jun 4, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> It amounts to me not being able to find a cad guy willing to work on the side. Those that own the software paid 1000s for it and charge just as much to draw with it. It's a shame really because I know a fluent designer could whip this up in a few hours. That and my hands are tied between my store and my vehicle. The store is doing well and soon I'll have the funds to bite the bullet and pay these guys.
> 
> Everything is sourced though and just waiting on production quality drawings. Sorry about the delays.



Hi Lazzer,

Can you please PM me your contact information?  My company is interested in your design.


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## GeoffreyK (Jun 11, 2013)

I've been obsessing for the last week or so about just how small I could make a potent new machine.  I've currently got an i7-920 and a GTX 275 in a Lian-Li PC-A05N; my goal with that build was "smallest possible system, off-the-shelf, with full-size components".  Now, I look at ATX and think... what am I doing?  I only ever use one expansion slot, what a waste!

So, I've been fantasizing about how small things could get with an mITX board and a SFX PSU.  Things like the FT-03 Mini... and then I found this thread, along with things like the FNW Tiki and the Alienware x51.

And then, I happen to run across this article today: http://www.techpowerup.com/185264/s...es-raven-to-mini-itx-gaming-build-worthy.html

The plastic shroud/surround is pretty hideous, but it looks like Silverstone's about to start competing in your niche!


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 11, 2013)

It's funny how all these companies crawl out of the woodwork with an ITX chassis about a year after I contact them.


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## stupido (Jun 11, 2013)

GeoffreyK said:


> I've been obsessing for the last week or so about just how small I could make a potent new machine.  I've currently got an i7-920 and a GTX 275 in a Lian-Li PC-A05N; my goal with that build was "smallest possible system, off-the-shelf, with full-size components".  Now, I look at ATX and think... what am I doing?  I only ever use one expansion slot, what a waste!
> 
> So, I've been fantasizing about how small things could get with an mITX board and a SFX PSU.  Things like the FT-03 Mini... and then I found this thread, along with things like the FNW Tiki and the Alienware x51.
> 
> ...



I was doing the same as you for some time and finally few weeks ago I update my computer with mini-ITX build (see my system specs)...
in my case I decided to go with Prodigy simply because I already had the Termalright Archon which is one of the tallest heatsinks... I wanted to keep it because I like the performance of it: both cooling & *noise* wise; so in my case, Prodigy was the *only* case capable of accepting it...
however, the only point I miss from my previous, ATX based setup, is the external sound card...
I do hear difference between cheap XtremeGamer and onboard audio with the same headset (Roccat Kave); note that Kave is not an audiophile grade gear, but apparently good enough to show difference between analog audio paths (the main difference between onboard and add-on sound card)


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## stupido (Jun 11, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> It's funny how all these companies crawl out of the woodwork with an ITX chassis about a year after I contact them.



That is probably because they realized that mini-ITX is the next mATX format...  the same as white cases - the white became the new black, the same as black became new beige...


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 27, 2013)

Titan ITX production prototype soon. (You'll love what I've done with the place)

What is everyone's opinions (pros and cons) of the following chassis/systems.

x51 (Alienware)
Tiki (Falcon Northwest)
Revolt (iBuypower)
Bolt (Digital Storm)
Raven ITX (Silverstone)


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## illli (Jun 27, 2013)

Revolt:  i don't like the type of psu they use.  plus its very ugly. 
Bolt:  i don't like the type of psu they use. 
Raven:  looks a little big
Tiki: near complete rip-off of your design. 
x51: uses external psu. not a bad decision, but limits you in terms of what you can use for components.


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## MightyMouth (Jun 29, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> Titan ITX production prototype soon. (You'll love what I've done with the place)
> 
> What is everyone's opinions (pros and cons) of the following chassis/systems.
> 
> ...




x51 - Would look ok under the TV as a Steam box console replacement - Overpriced, the chassis must be 1/3 of the price considering the components.

Tiki - Nice, sleek and stylish.  How much? They are charging at least $800 for the chassis because the components work out to less than $900.

Revolt - Ugly but might be a decent alternative to the x51 - again way over priced

Bolt - Fugly, way over priced. wouldnt even consider.

Raven - Not sure what they are thinking with this one, their cases are usually quite nice looking but this looks like a left over desktop PC from 2003. If they made it look a little more like the RV04 then I would consider it. Saying that, out of this lot, this is the one I would buy because I want a self build and this is the only option until the Titan-ITX is available. I think I will hold out for yours.

Come on, release yours already!!! 

ps. I would be happy to buy a prototype


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 29, 2013)

MightyMouth said:


> Come on, release yours already!!!
> 
> ps. I would be happy to buy a prototype



I can't help the delays. I just don't have the resources of a large company. These prototypes weren't cheap. You could get a fully loaded Civic for less. 

The production model will be competitively priced. I did make a revision to one of the models that I think a lot of us can appreciate, ATX power.   It's still smaller then a Tiki and has placement for four 80mm fans if you want them. It currently has 500w of continuous power with 36 to 44 amps of 12v power depending on which supply I go with. I'm having too many issues with SFX supplies being able to meet the power requirements of a GTX Titan and a OC'd 4770k. Titan's SFX model is 3.5" thick. All models are very "mod friendly".


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## illli (Jun 29, 2013)

i'm curious how you managed to fit an atx psu into it.  is it an off the shelf part?


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 29, 2013)

illli said:


> i'm curious how you managed to fit an atx psu into it.  is it an off the shelf part?



Yes, the PSU housing itself is standard ATX but the cabling is modified to eliminate some of the bulk.


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## illli (Jun 29, 2013)

but you were able to put in a standard sized psu without increasing the case size? i thought standard atx height was closer to 4 inches


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## MightyMouth (Jun 29, 2013)

Have you got any time-frame at all?


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## Lazzer408 (Jun 29, 2013)

illli said:


> but you were able to put in a standard sized psu without increasing the case size? i thought standard atx height was closer to 4 inches



Sorry if there's confusion. The model we had been discussing in this thread uses a SFX (Micro ATX) PSU. Due to the inherent problems with SFX PSUs *reliably* powering a large graphic card (and the accompanying noise level) a revised second model was designed to accommodate an ATX supply. The ATX version is the first model that will go into production.

An ATX supply is 86mm which is about 3.4".



MightyMouth said:


> Have you got any time-frame at all?



Couple months hopefully.  The US companies have great lead times (1-2 weeks) but some of the parts are coming from over seas. I should have the files ready for the laser by the end of next week. I'll then have to wait for everything to get here first for finishing (anodizing) so they're no issues with color matching separate batches.


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## illli (Jun 30, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> An ATX supply is 86mm which is about 3.4".



oh thats right.  when i was thinking 4 inches i was using some numbers based on a design i was coming up with    i remember thinking i'll just make it 4 inches in height, to give me more room/flexibility for fans and heatsinks etc.


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## GeoffreyK (Jun 30, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> Titan ITX production prototype soon. (You'll love what I've done with the place)
> 
> What is everyone's opinions (pros and cons) of the following chassis/systems.
> 
> ...



x51: Boo plastic exterior and cheap rolled-steel chassis.  Boo custom power supply, with large external brick.  Pros... for everything in such close proximity, seems relatively well-ventilated, though I have to wonder where the GFX is supposed to be getting its fresh air, with the blower intake smushed up against a hard drive...
Tiki: I like almost everything about the Tiki, except its price (and the granite base is just silly; gotta justify that price somehow, I guess).  I'm not the biggest fan of vertically oriented, slot-loading optical drives.
Revolt: Hideous, and cheaply made to boot.  Unsure how I feel about the use of 1U PSUs (tiny fans aren't exactly known for their quiet operation).  Also unsure as to how I feel about placing the hard drives opposite/above the CPU.
Bolt: Layout seems acceptable, and is certainly not as hideous as the Revolt, but it certainly looks cheap (all of the visible folds, and the awkward "base").  If a modder built it from scratch, I would be floored, but as a mass-produced case, I expect more polish.  Same concern as to the 1U PSU as with the Revolt...
Raven: Have I mentioned that I don't like plastic?  I'm not sure where other people are getting it when they say this looks big to them; given the component layout, seems similar in size to the Tiki and your Titan.  Aside from the plastic surround, I generally like this case.


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## Draekris (Jul 12, 2013)

*Shiny!*

I've been looking around for a case this size with this capability for a long time and upon finding this thread I made an account to tell you I'd happily put down $300 for this case (and psu).  It looks fantastic and given the amount of time that's been spent on it I expect it'll perform wonderfully once it's finished.  By the way I'm in Illinois and could pick one up if that becomes an option at some point.  Keep up the hard work and persistence!


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## Draekris (Jul 12, 2013)

Thoughts on those other small gaming pcs (focusing on external appearance):
x51: Good performance and ventilation (according to friends).  I've never liked Alienware's gaudy plastic exteriors and lighting, and the power supply is less than ideal.  Overall the system does not justify the price.
Tiki: Excellent aesthetic and performance, until I get to the granite base.  It just doesn't make sense.  The price is quite high.
Revolt: The design is pretty bad, I think it's worse than the alienware, especially the triangles on the front.  I like the USB 3 on the front but other than that this has nothing going for it.  Simple, clean design is a much less embarrassing thing to have on one's desk.
Bolt: Much better looking but impractical.  The placement of the ports on the side is inconvenient if I have the case wedged somewhere and between that and the angled design there's really only one way to put the machine.  The specs are good and the price is reasonable but the port design could be a problem in everyday use.
Raven ITX: Again, the ports on the side are inconvenient, especially since I would be using the USB 3 for external drives and that would stick out uncomfortably.  The design is okay but I'm not a fan of the window and any plastic parts should be plain and clean.  The front of this system looks a bit messy.

By the way it seems standard backpacks fit about 13"x13"x4" in a single pocket, which might be nice (if one doesn't mind a monitor under their arm ).


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## Gurudaz (Jul 14, 2013)

Draekris said:


> Thoughts on those other small gaming pcs (focusing on external appearance):
> x51: Good performance and ventilation (according to friends).  I've never liked Alienware's gaudy plastic exteriors and lighting, and the power supply is less than ideal.  Overall the system does not justify the price.
> Tiki: Excellent aesthetic and performance, until I get to the granite base.  It just doesn't make sense.  The price is quite high.
> Revolt: The design is pretty bad, I think it's worse than the alienware, especially the triangles on the front.  I like the USB 3 on the front but other than that this has nothing going for it.  Simple, clean design is a much less embarrassing thing to have on one's desk.
> ...




Just thought Id see whats the update on this project, it seems that there are people that have an itch (like me) to make a tiny hi-power gaming pc, there was someone online who was in the process of making a production one but soon ran into cnc machine problems (it broke down) so this thread seems like someone is trying to make somthing of a production type model.

Tiki s chasiss is by far the slimest most powerfull gaming pc out there IMO, with a solid chassis and easily upgradable and somewhat managable. The only issue is that I would like it to have a front panel power button and DVD slot instead of at the top, basically I would love to have a gaming pc installed in my Home Theatre Rack etc.

* A note on PSU cables, I ordered a PSU directly from cooler master a few years ago, they actually allow you to customize your cables if you prefer, basically, they send you an pdf with the PSU cables and you tell them which ones you want( example X1 motherboard X2 8pin, X2 Sata etc) then you tell them the length of each cbale you require, they then send you the exact length cables you need, they shortened my MOBO cable @ 7 inches length etc.


Just thought I would provide some info if your going with a ATX PSU' you can customize cable lengths and types.


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## Lazzer408 (Jul 17, 2013)

Gurudaz said:


> * A note on PSU cables, I ordered a PSU directly from cooler master a few years ago, they actually allow you to customize your cables if you prefer, basically, they send you an pdf with the PSU cables and you tell them which ones you want( example X1 motherboard X2 8pin, X2 Sata etc) then you tell them the length of each cbale you require, they then send you the exact length cables you need, they shortened my MOBO cable @ 7 inches length etc.
> 
> Just thought I would provide some info if your going with a ATX PSU' you can customize cable lengths and types.



It doesn't look like Cooler Master currently has any supplies with 80mm fans.  An ATX PSU must use 80mm fans in order to allow the chassis to lay horizontal without needing 1" feet.  Axial fans choke from turbulence when the inlet side is too close to another surface. That's why the non-reference GPU coolers run hot/noisy when used in SLI/CF with another card next to it. It's also why XBOX slim runs hotter then it should. Flip the fan over. It'll run cooler.

You can still use an ATX PSU with a 120mm fan in my chassis but it requires the chassis to sit vertically or use some larger feet.

Which bring up an interesting point. The Tiki uses a slim 120mm fan on the radiator. The fan blows the heat inward onto the motherboard pulling through the radiator.  On the plus side, it's pulling in ambient air. On the minus side, it's CFM suffers due to turbulence. They should try placing the fan against the side cover with the radiator on top of it for a push-through configuration. It could be that it was a clearance issue for the hoses.

Here's the news... I forgot the USB 3.0/audio header!  I have sourced the 3.0 headers (with nice chrome metal audio jacks) and have samples in hand. It's been modeled and being placed in the assembly.  Also, the Antec-supplied Delta PSU I wanted is being discontinued.  I'll use the BP500U for now but it wasn't the model I wanted. It passed the load test but the fan profile isn't the greatest.


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## illli (Jul 18, 2013)

high power had some new sfx power supplies on display at computex this year  http://www.expreview.com/26086.html
 actually they are a tiny bit larger than spec, but at least they come with a 120mm fan


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## Lazzer408 (Jul 18, 2013)

illli said:


> high power had some new sfx power supplies on display at computex this year  http://www.expreview.com/26086.html
> actually they are a tiny bit larger than spec, but at least they come with a 120mm fan



Lets max out a system. Say a large GPU is crunching 200w worth of folding plus a 125w overclocked CPU. Add in a few fans, drives, and USB devices (charging a cell and burning a CD for example) for another 75w to make it an even 400w. Your pulling 500w from the wall with an 80% efficient PSU. 500*.8=400. 500-400=100. That's 100w worth of heat to get rid of.

To get rid of that heat you need surface area and airflow. Surface area is limited in a SFX/TFX/uATX/1U/TedDanson power supply so that little 40 or 60mm fan has to get spinning to create enough CFM over the small heatsinks. Having a 120mm fan in a uATX PSU (something I strongly suggested to FSP/SPI over two years ago) will help but I'd have to put a vent in the bottom of the chassis which sits very close to the table surface.

The chassis has to be just a little bit larger to accommodate the ATX supply but with this you also get the space for 80mm case fans if needed. The system will be cooler, quieter, have more performance headroom, and more reliability. It's still smaller then a Tiki. 

I will be producing the smaller (original) version but the ATX version will hit the streets first.

Does it look like THIS? That one has been around for years now.


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## illli (Jul 18, 2013)

its actually a tiny bit larger since its modular.  the info card looks to say 125mm (w) x 130mm (d) x 64mm (h) i don't much much else about it, theres no model number (that i can make out)... it might be a few months before it sees the light of day.


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## Lazzer408 (Jul 18, 2013)

Same size as the KDM supplies I was blowing up testing.


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## Lazzer408 (Jul 22, 2013)

Anyone have some good fan suggestions?  I have tried Delta, Gelid, and Silverstone. All failed the noise test. What's the noise test? If I can hear it across the room it fails. 

The Delta (DF1208BM-3) was claimed to be a ball-bearing design but after opening it was clearly a sleeve bearing. FAIL

The Gelid Silent 8 (FN-SX08-16) has a hydro dynamic bearing but has blade hum. FAIL

The Silverstone Silentmatic (SFA8025MS-12N) had very little, if any, blade hum but they have noisy bearings. FAIL

I ordered multiple samples of each brand and all samples suffered the issues above.

I guess I'll just have to start randomly ordering fans and testing them one by one. The manufactures specifications are NEVER accurate. Not only on fans, but also power supplies. It's UNREAL how full of $hit they are. No wonder nothing lasts. 

Worst case scenario, I'll ship them fan-less and you guys can figure it out.


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## Draekris (Jul 23, 2013)

Nooo!  I'd end up not putting a fan in and frying my parts.  Anyways I'd rather have blade noise than loud bearings, because then at least nothing's actively falling apart.  Also the random question thinks Apple "makes" the iPhone, which they don't really, and I wasn't sure what to answer


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## stupido (Jul 23, 2013)

Yesss...  

Fans according to me, should be a thing of personal preference; no need to add extra cost; as a matter of compromise, you could offer fans as add-on during purchase...

but I strongly believe that most enthusiasts will opt for a fan-less case (unless they like the ones you offer as add-on)


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## Vario (Jul 23, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> Anyone have some good fan suggestions?  I have tried Delta, Gelid, and Silverstone. All failed the noise test. What's the noise test? If I can hear it across the room it fails.
> 
> The Delta (DF1208BM-3) was claimed to be a ball-bearing design but after opening it was clearly a sleeve bearing. FAIL
> 
> ...



Try the cougar silent COUGAR CF-V12HPB Vortex Hydro-Dynamic-Bearing (Flu...


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## Sean.Crees (Jul 24, 2013)

Best quiet 120mm fans are the Scythe Gentle Typhoon series.  I'd say try the AP-13, and AP-12.


Check out www.silentpcreview.com for recommendations on quiet fans.  They focus primarily on fan noise.


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## Lazzer408 (Jul 25, 2013)

The larger chassis will hold four 80mm fans, two on each side.  It will ship with two.  You can place them both on the right (CPU) side, or both on the left (GPU/HDD) side, or one on each side.  Add two more fans later if you need them.

This way you'll have fans to get started but still have a little flexibility.  That's something you typically don't have in an ITX chassis.

Don't forget I left a nice little spot in the chassis for a Zalman Fanmate style controller.


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## Lazzer408 (Jul 28, 2013)

Teaser pic!

Cad model of the chassis. This is the larger version supporting the ATX power supply.  It's 15"(w) x 13.5"(d) x 4"(h).  An HD7970 will fit in it. o.0

The top and side panels were done in carbon fiber and everything else is anodized aluminum.  At the rear you can see the two of the four 80mm fans.  The other two 80s are in the same location on the other side.  USB 3.0 and audio jacks are flush-mounted.  The power and eject buttons are not in place and pardon my hella-vents. 

There were a few errors here and there and it was getting hard to explain changes to the guy who was drawing it.  So, I taught myself CAD (in two days) and this was the result of a few days drawing.  Things are MUCH easier now that I can do it.   Some of the modifications I've done lately are size reduction, weight savings, wire management, ease of assembly, mod-ability, safety (sharp corners etc.), and cost savings.

To anyone interested... As nice as some grabcad.com parts look, they are NOT drawn correctly.  I grabbed 10 different video cards off that site to verify fitment and they were all wrong.  Some too big, some too small.  It wasn't an importing or scale problem.  Good thing I caught it before I was sitting on 500 junk chassis. The grabcad motherboards were also wrong. The photo-realistic drawings are very nice looking but not suitable for engineering use.  I had to draw everything from scratch.

I spent a lot of time through email and on the phone with Zippy (power supplies) and we couldn't come to an agreement on pricing.  The cost would be ~$50 higher then a similarly spec'd FSP/Sparkle or even a Delta unit.  Considering the small volume, Zippy's cable modification price was fair.  Then it dawned on me... The chassis is much larger (in every direction) to accommodate the ATX supply and wiring modification is likely not even needed.

Bottom line? Price? Somewhere around $299.99 with a pair of silent fans and a good power supply.  I think I was over-reacting about the noise levels of some of these fans because the more fans I test the more I realize how much quieter the Silentmatic is.  A pair of them move a fairly significant amount of air and are pretty quiet doing it.  Regardless, you can replace them with any 80x25mm fans and fit a Fanmate in the chassis.


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## Gurudaz (Aug 2, 2013)

* Where is a website we can order the chassis from?

Will it fit a full size GTX TITAN card?

I sure hope so, then I will go ahead and start my gaming build ASAP!!

Do you have an actual production model? If so can you post pics?

How long until the production model is available to buy?


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 2, 2013)

The GTX Titan is only 10.5" long,  Chassis supports 12" cards.  You have room to spare. 

I'm hustling to get production moving.  I had to revise a bracket I didn't like.  The bottom edge of the bracket posed a risk to the backside of the GPU.  I redesigned the whole bracket and now all the drives mount as a single removable assembly. This made it easier to remove the GPU with less risk to the card.  It also eliminated a thumbscrew.

I also revised the power supply bracket and made it removable so the power supply can be flipped over.  It probably wasn't nessessary but the cost was the same either way so I did it.  Someone, somewhere will want to flip it over for some reason.

Speaking of power supplies. They showed up yesterday. I'm pretty impressed how cool and quiet they are.  I tested them on a trusty old 4870x2.  Why such an old car? Because it's a watt-sucking vampire drawing 370w.


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## Gurudaz (Aug 2, 2013)

* So where and when will these be available?

Can you post some pics of the stuff you have right now installed?


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 3, 2013)

There seems to be some intellectual property theft going on, and I know the "competitors" are watching this thread, so I'm a little reluctant to show off the internals until there's 100s of them sitting in my warehouse ready to sell. Most I could show you are the component cad models I've made.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 3, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> There seems to be some intellectual property theft going on, and I know the "competitors" are watching this thread, so I'm a little reluctant to show off the internals until there's 100s of them sitting in my warehouse ready to sell. Most I could show you are the component cad models I've made.



Dont post anything then, PM it to long time members that want to see it.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 3, 2013)

tigger said:


> Dont post anything then, PM it to long time members that want to see it.



W1zzard will get one of the 50 production samples for review.  He better I hope he has nice things to say about it.


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## Gurudaz (Aug 3, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> There seems to be some intellectual property theft going on, and I know the "competitors" are watching this thread, so I'm a little reluctant to show off the internals until there's 100s of them sitting in my warehouse ready to sell. Most I could show you are the component cad models I've made.



When will they be made availlable? 2-3 months?


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 3, 2013)

It will definitely be in production by then but it's in the hands of other companies lead-times.

A month ago I thought I had drawings ready to go until I noticed the GPU was sticking .010" through the back of the PCIe socket. I drew the socket so I figured it was my error but I double checked and it was dead-on. Then I measured the GFX card and it was incorrect. I didn't draw the GFX card. Then I measured the other components that I didn't draw. They were all wrong. Some were larger, some were smaller, so it wasn't a program/scaling issue or they would all be off by the same amount. This threw off everything. There's zero margin for error in a small chassis. I've since re-drawn every component from scratch and have the complete assembly finished. I've set clearances and tolerances so it should be good to go.

The first "correct" drawing was sent out this morning. I'm trying out a company that stamps out the part (rather then laser and folding) to see the results. If the stamping leaves burrs that need to be filed off it might not be cost effective. The laser left a pretty nice edge.


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## Gurudaz (Aug 3, 2013)

* Are stamped parts cheaper to make than laser/folded?

I'll be around and maybe catch some pics of the chassis.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 3, 2013)

Excluding the tooling/finishing cost, they are cheaper to stamp. It's the tooling/finishing costs that hurt. Cutting the part out with a laser is cheap because all the parts are cut at once. With the laser, the parts are nested together to make the most out of a sheet of aluminum. Once cut, a brake press operator has to fold each tab. It's man hours (laser) vs. tooling costs (stamping). If I was making millions of them, stamping is cheaper IF it produces a nice finish.

I've spent more time on reducing costs then on the design itself. Anyone can envision the layout and shape of a product. Keeping costs down is the hard part. You have to understand the manufacturing processes to do that. For example: All the sheet metal is the same gauge, the folded tabs are the same angle, they are inline with each other, and also the same size. This significantly reduces costs. I also have to keep in mind how the parts will be nested so that edges and holes in one part are inline with the next. This reduces the time the laser is moving the head around. Kinda like seek time in a hard drive. Holes all over the place is like a hard drive that is badly fragmented. It slows things down which means $$$.


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## Gurudaz (Aug 3, 2013)

* The case needs to be watercool capable, I don't see fitting a heatsink into the case.

Looking at a GTX 780 watercooled, is there room somewhere for dual 120mm radiators for cpu-gpu cooling(which I feel should be more than enough to keep them operating.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 3, 2013)

Gurudaz said:


> * The case needs to be watercool capable, I don't see fitting a heatsink into the case.
> 
> Looking at a GTX 780 watercooled, is there room somewhere for dual 120mm radiators for cpu-gpu cooling(which I feel should be more than enough to keep them operating.



Your serious right? 

This is a small form factor chassis. Small form factor computers are usually VERY limited. Your lucky to fit a video card at all, let alone power it, or have any headroom for CPU overclocking. This chassis gives you the ability to build a small form factor computer without those limits. I'm not concerned about the ~1% who want that extra 500mhz that only watercooling would provide.


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## Gurudaz (Aug 3, 2013)

* I would definatley choose water cooling for the cpu, not for OC but for heat related performance. Something that small needs heat to be removed exclusively> just like the Tiki case can.
As for GPU watercooling, I can go with air cooled if need be> but would be an intersting challange to do both.

This watercooling setup is an all in one> it basically has the pump and reservoir built into it...you can actaully use different radiators if need be.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103183


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## Gurudaz (Aug 3, 2013)

* Its funny the review for that cooler didn't go too well for someone, but the guy was trying to cool an OC 3770k @ 4.4 ghz> the 3770k's dont do well above 4.2 ghz unless you've got super cooling that will bring temps down significantly even then... they are stubborn above 4.5 ghz> people  should just leave them at 4.2> what is an extra 200mhz anyways?

The + side of this cooler is it's refillable any time> so it's cooling life can be extended with minimal hassle of purchasing a new piece> the only down side is people say the pump can be noisy, which is unfortunate.

The cooler itself can be disassembled and you can add your own tubing network> basically you can add a dual 120 mm RAD with built in reservoir, add a liquid cooled GPU to it and the pump will handle both CPU and GPU cooling @ 12v (but the pump is louder at these voltages)


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## Gurudaz (Aug 3, 2013)

* Another reason I mention this unit is because lets say, the case might not fit a long tubed liquid cooling unit such as corsair models etc> with this unit> I can basically cut and add my own tube lengths to fit inside the case etc> but that just what I would do if space is tight. I think it should work above the CPU just fine> your case is only 4" height> but I don't know how a Liquid cooled 780 will fit> I'm thinking the GPU has the hard drive bay beneath it so tubing can't be looped into that area> unless the hardrive could be mounted on the inside of the chassis wall etc.


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## adulaamin (Aug 3, 2013)

Gurudaz: You can EDIT your posts instead of double or triple posting.

On the case: I can't wait for a TPU review.


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## Gurudaz (Aug 3, 2013)

adulaamin said:


> Gurudaz: You can EDIT your posts instead of double or triple posting.
> 
> On the case: I can't wait for a TPU review.




I felt it appropiate to triple post...to disern the subject from the previous post.


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## adulaamin (Aug 3, 2013)

Gurudaz said:


> I felt it appropiate to triple post...to disern the subject from the previous post.



Isn't that what paragraphs are for? Anyway I'm not sure if it's part of the forum guidelines or not but some mods/members have issues with double/triple posting.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 3, 2013)

There isn't any magic to watercooling that allows it to break any laws of physics. Given the fact that the available space for a cooler is limited, a heatsink would outperform a water cooler in a fixed space. There are 3 things that matter in coolers. Getting the heat off of one surface, moving it to another surface, then moving it from that surface to the air.  The first step is fairly easy and heat pipes are an efficient means of moving heat from one area to another. Water is also good at it but requires many other components that decrease the overall reliability of the cooling system. All things equal it boils down to the surface area of the radiator and the airflow across it.

NASA used heat pipes for a reason. Small, light, efficient, maintenance free, cheap and reliable.

If you feel that liquid cooling is a mandatory part of your build there are many other cases out there designed to accomidate the large radiators required to cool both a CPU and GPU.


----------



## Lazzer408 (Aug 3, 2013)

adulaamin said:


> Isn't that what paragraphs are for? Anyway I'm not sure if it's part of the forum guidelines or not but some mods/members have issues with double/triple posting.



And Trolling....


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## Gurudaz (Aug 3, 2013)

I guess the case doesn't allow cpu liquid cooling?


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 4, 2013)

Gurudaz said:


> I guess the case doesn't allow cpu liquid cooling?



For what?

The smaller chassis I started with, no.  The larger version that I'm producing first, maybe, with modifications.

There's 2.92" (72mm) of space between the cpu and top cover so it'll accept a fairly wide rande of low-profile coolers. If you decide to vent the top cover, You could use a low-profile heatsink with a thicker fan. This helps move more air without as much noise as the thin fans. The way it's designed, the chassis completely slides out of the enclosure for service. You would need a way to support the radiator and fan so the chassis could slide out with the cooler attached.

A 120mm heatpipe cooler would outperform a 90mm radiator anyways.

Why the fixation on water cooling?


----------



## happita (Aug 4, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> Why the fixation on water cooling?



The guy gives off a bad vibe. I'm thinking he might be one of the "competitors" you mentioned earlier in one of your posts Lazzer and he's just trying to get some information out of you 

Can't wait to see the day your production goes live. Congrats on your vision, hope you succeed


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 4, 2013)

happita said:


> The guy gives off a bad vibe. I'm thinking he might be one of the "competitors" you mentioned earlier in one of your posts Lazzer and he's just trying to get some information out of you
> 
> Can't wait to see the day your production goes live. Congrats on your vision, hope you succeed



Thanks happita.  So far so good. 

How do you guys like this power button? I'm sending it to the injection molder on Monday.


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## t_ski (Aug 4, 2013)

Looks a little big...


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 4, 2013)

It's a whole lot of on.  It's only 0.5".


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## MightyMission (Aug 4, 2013)

I quite like it...it's a positive button! plus it breaks up the blank expanse enough to make the front of the case look professional, and slightly interesting. These things matter! I'd assume anyway haha i'm not affiliated with anyone or anything.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 4, 2013)

It's the little things. Like this screw I found for the faceplate. It looks like the audio jacks.


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## MightyMission (Aug 4, 2013)

I thought that was a blank for a w/c rad first off...
Here's a thought: if you was to have three for line in/mic/cans..you think it'd look good with a faintly glowing coloured LED surrounding the edge? green for cans pink for mic etc


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 4, 2013)

Cans? I assume that's the slang for headphones these days? 

I didn't want colored jacks. I found this front io with chrome jacks that I couldn't have designed better myself if I tried. It's a prefect fit.


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## happita (Aug 4, 2013)

The only thing I didn't particularly care for was the led above that power button. I have one that's on my speakers and it's extremely annoying. If there is an LCD screen indicator right under that cd-rom drive you have there, wouldn't that indicate that the PC is powered on anyway? 
1 less, even though small, cable to get rid of. Just a thought.

And I hope that CD-ROM drive is the small form-factor kind, like the ones that come w/ laptops, not a stand-alone you get for your desktop. Anyhow, it looks slim n fancy.


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## Vario (Aug 4, 2013)

Id think a brushed metal power button would accent better


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## Gurudaz (Aug 4, 2013)

* If I can fit a watercooler into the case then I will defintaly be trying out liquid cooling> nothing personal but feel liquid cooling is the new age of cpu cooling IMO.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 4, 2013)

happita said:


> The only thing I didn't particularly care for was the led above that power button. I have one that's on my speakers and it's extremely annoying. If there is an LCD screen indicator right under that cd-rom drive you have there, wouldn't that indicate that the PC is powered on anyway?
> 1 less, even though small, cable to get rid of. Just a thought.
> 
> And I hope that CD-ROM drive is the small form-factor kind, like the ones that come w/ laptops, not a stand-alone you get for your desktop. Anyhow, it looks slim n fancy.



I had considered the anoyance of LEDs. That's why the HDD LED was removed. The power LED is set back behind the front panel. The red light you see is shining through a .060" hole in the faceplate. It's pretty sharp looking in person. Some faceplates won't have the LCD display. You can buy it with or without. Yes it's a slim slot-loading laptop SATA optical drive.



amp281 said:


> Id think a brushed metal power button would accent better



The button attaches directly to a tiny PC power switch. The weight of a metal button might wear it out sooner. I agree it would look sharp.



Gurudaz said:


> * If I can fit a watercooler into the case then I will defintaly be trying out liquid cooling> nothing personal but feel liquid cooling is the new age of cpu cooling IMO.



There may be some laws of physics your missing.  The cooling limitation in a small chassis is surface area of the cooler NOT the transfer medium (ammonia, water, ect.). You will use up your already limited space with a pump, hoses, and manifolds. The manifolds are the small tanks on the ends of the radiators that are used to evenly disperse the fluid to the tubes.

Do you understand that the water in a water cooler is only moving the heat from one area to another? It's up to the radiator to transfer the heat into the air. The laws of physics still apply to water cooling.


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## Vario (Aug 4, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> There may be some laws of physics your missing.  The cooling limitation in a small chassis is surface area of the cooler NOT the transfer medium (ammonia, water, ect.). You will use up your already limited space with a pump, hoses, and manifolds. The manifolds are the small tanks on the ends of the radiators that are used to evenly disperse the fluid to the tubes.
> 
> Do you understand that the water in a water cooler is only moving the heat from one area to another? It's up to the radiator to transfer the heat into the air. The laws of physics still apply to water cooling.



lol no pleasing that guy


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## Gurudaz (Aug 4, 2013)

* I dunno much about watercooling, but when I did go that route, I found expelling hot air to the outside of the case form the cpu works better, than whipping hot air around inside the chassis with a heatsink assembly> or even sucking cool air into the case didn't help keeping the CPU / RAM cool, 
My case is mid tower and it's pretty tight already, pushing hot around around such a tiny area means that my GPU suffers from the expelled heat, such as would probably be with your chassis case assembly etc> Heat pipe will push hot air directly into the GPU card> $1,000 card that is, I feel that moving the heat away from the CPU and the GPU for that matters means, there's no hot air inside the case anylonger, it's tossed out with good results, CPU stays happy and so does the GPU> The 3770K runs VERY cool at stock temps> so it's not a huge deal. But watercooling


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## Vario (Aug 4, 2013)

Sounds like you should mod an external radiator all in one like the koolance styles, onto an itx with maybe a cowling to improve portability/strength.  No itx maker is going to make a serious watercooling case.  There would be not enough demand to make it worthwhile.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 5, 2013)

Gurudaz said:


> * I dunno much about watercooling...



Agreed.



Gurudaz said:


> ...pushing hot around around such a tiny area means that my GPU suffers from the expelled heat, such as would probably be with your chassis case assembly etc> Heat pipe will push hot air directly into the GPU card



Not the case.  You'll see how when it's done. 



amp281 said:


> Sounds like you should mod an external radiator all in one like the koolance styles, onto an itx with maybe a cowling to improve portability/strength.  No itx maker is going to make a serious watercooling case.  There would be not enough demand to make it worthwhile.



This case is very modable when it comes to making changes. If the right rear fan was removed it would give you the room you need for hoses to exit the chassis. The remaining fan is plenty for the ram/mobo.

I did plan on making a small companion cooling unit with pump, reservoir, 4x120mm fans, radiators, USB monitoring interface, and quick-release couplings for transport. The unit would be powered from a 12v power brick about the size of a a netbook adaptor.


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## Vario (Aug 5, 2013)

That would be very cool, especially if it could bolt securely to the main unit for carrying in addition to quick release, just to be safe.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 6, 2013)

First sample production part tomorrow.  There going to do a test run of the faceplate in the CNC to get the time/cost accurate. If I ok the sample they'll run another 50pcs.

Internal volume (ATX version) = 0.412 cubic feet.

I was kind of suprised at that figure. I thought the ATX supply would put it over 0.5.


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## Gurudaz (Aug 6, 2013)

* can you post pics of the internals of the case to see if watercooling it is feasible?


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 6, 2013)

Unfortunatly no, not yet.

The most you can fit in there is a 90mm -maybe- a 120mm slim radiator with a slim fan. I posted the space above the CPU. I believe it was around 2.9". You will still have to modify the enclosure's top cover by cutting vent slits. A standard HSF will offer better performance. You can't beat the laws of physics and more fin wins.

Most slim ITX chassis give you a half-height graphics card and limited power supply to run stock clocks. The ability to run a full size graphics card and ATX power supply in a chassis this small is leaps ahead of anyone elses offerings (for now). Some sacrifices had to be made. My goal was to sacrifice as little as possible. Watercooling was just one of the sacrifices that had to be made. If I made it big enough to support water cooling I'd loose 80% of my sales to satisfy a 2% market who want's a 5% FPS gain.


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## Gurudaz (Aug 6, 2013)

Didn't you mention in an earlier post you fit a full size gpu?


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## happita (Aug 6, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> Most slim ITX chassis give you a half-height graphics card and limited power supply to run stock clocks. The ability to run a full size graphics card and ATX power supply in a chassis this small is leaps ahead of anyone elses offerings (for now).



I have been waiting and waiting and waiting on building a small compact enough HTPC that would be powerful enough to run current games at max or close to max settings (1080p) without becoming a furnace inside a small case.

Right now, theres only about 4 PSUs on the egg that are only 80 bronze certified which are designed to fit inside mini-itx cases and don't put out too many watts. And none of them are modular :shadedshu And graphics cards, forget it. Unless your going to get the ASUS 670GTX mini, a high-end graphics card just isn't going to fit period.

I hope you designed a case that interests people like me.


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## Gurudaz (Aug 6, 2013)

happita said:


> I have been waiting and waiting and waiting on building a small compact enough HTPC that would be powerful enough to run current games at max or close to max settings (1080p) without becoming a furnace inside a small case.
> 
> Right now, theres only about 4 PSUs on the egg that are only 80 bronze certified which are designed to fit inside mini-itx cases and don't put out too many watts. And none of them are modular :shadedshu And graphics cards, forget it. Unless your going to get the ASUS 670GTX mini, a high-end graphics card just isn't going to fit period.
> 
> I hope you designed a case that interests people like me.



 I agree, anyone out there under the age of 50 will probably want a full size GPU in their gaming case, otherwise I could be blowing bubbles with a tiny mac mini that does the same thing and smaller.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 6, 2013)

Gurudaz said:


> Didn't you mention in an earlier post you fit a full size gpu?



Yes. Up too 12".



happita said:


> I have been waiting and waiting and waiting on building a small compact enough HTPC that would be powerful enough to run current games at max or close to max settings (1080p) without becoming a furnace inside a small case.
> 
> Right now, theres only about 4 PSUs on the egg that are only 80 bronze certified which are designed to fit inside mini-itx cases and don't put out too many watts. And none of them are modular :shadedshu And graphics cards, forget it. Unless your going to get the ASUS 670GTX mini, a high-end graphics card just isn't going to fit period.
> 
> I hope you designed a case that interests people like me.



Yup. ATX support (not modular ATX) and an HD7970 (11") or GTX Titan (10.5") will fit. Those SFX power supplies are hit and miss. The 4 I tested fail at about 350w. The FSP 450w held up but ran very hot. The KDM smelled like a burning electronics factory. As for cooling, I can't vouch for non-reference GPU coolers. They tend to s--t hot air everywhere and choke when the fan's inlet is near another surface.

Wiring is TIGHT. You'll have to use your zip-ties wisely. 

The ATX version was designed for power supplies using 80mm fans


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## Vario (Aug 6, 2013)

Yo dawg we herd u leik greek gods so we put a titan in yo titan so you can titan while you titan


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## happita (Aug 6, 2013)

amp281 said:


> Yo dawg we herd u leik greek gods so we put a titan in yo titan so you can titan while you titan



I lost more than a few brain cells reading that.




Lazzer408 said:


> Yes. Up too 12".
> 
> Yup. ATX support (not modular ATX) and an HD7970 (11") or GTX Titan (10.5") will fit. Those SFX power supplies are hit and miss. The 4 I tested fail at about 350w. The FSP 450w held up but ran very hot. The KDM smelled like a burning electronics factory. As for cooling, I can't vouch for non-reference GPU coolers. They tend to s--t hot air everywhere and choke when the fan's inlet is near another surface.
> 
> ...



Well, I'm sure the fact that CPUs and GPUs keep improving in the manufacturing process helps keep temps at acceptable ranges. We sure don't want a hotbox on our hands. Maybe 1 more generation of die-shrinks and things will be acceptable with stock coolers. Who knows.

Just as long as I have the ability to put a super efficient gold/platinum PSU in there, I'm good. If it can fit ATX PSUs, does it matter if its modular or not? I'm sure it doesn't affect the actual size of the unit modular vs non-modular.

Anyway, how long do you estimate you will have a working case for order? (might be asking too much)...How about...when do you tihnk you can show us a picture of what it will look like in it's final stage when it's "sellable"?


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## Vario (Aug 6, 2013)

Just doing my best Xzibit impression a la pimp my ride lol


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 7, 2013)

happita said:


> If it can fit ATX PSUs, does it matter if its modular or not?



It's designed for 150 × 86 × 140mm ATX supplies.  Most modular ATX are longer then 140mm.

Isn't it interesting how PSU efficiency keeps going up but so does the physical size? There's no need for anything over 500w in a SFF build. The power supplies sold these days are getting ridiculous. Either that or the customers are, who buy 1kw powersupplies to power a stock i7 and a single GPU. 

The power supply provided is a modified BP500 (500w Antec continuous rating). Provided connectors are 20+4, 4+4, 6 and 6+6, and two Molex+floppy on a single whip. The two sata whips containing the orange 3.3v rail are removed. A Molex to SATA Y-cable is provided to supply the SATA power. The floppy connector is used for the optical drive. The remaining Molex connector can be used for accessories or used with another Molex to SATA Y-cable to power to two additional 3.5" drives that can be mounted in place of the GPU, if desired. I felt this kept PSU cable clutter to a minimum.

The BP500 is rated at:
3.3v 30a
5v 30a
12v1 18a
12v2 18a

They could have done a better job with the fan curve but I've seen worse.

Yesterday's updates...

The plastics shop... is all set (as in paid) to produce the molds and 1000pcs each of the power button and power switch retainer. I have a 2 week lead time on those parts.

The sheetmetal shop... told me to change the thickness of the material in my drawings to .060" because that's the thickness of the aluminum they use. I was left thinking I had to relocate dozens of holes and component constraints to account for .003" difference. When I got home I measured the samples and they're exactly .063".  In that case, my drawings are right. I'll be heading over there in the morning to find out why they told me .060".

The Machine shop... recieved the material for faceplates. I should have those tomorrow.


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## juntzo (Aug 7, 2013)

I just registered so that I can order this when it is ready!

I just hope you can ship to my country.

I would even want to have the exclusive distributorship here. That is if I can afford it. How's that?


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 7, 2013)

The sample faceplates are in. One was sent for finishing. This one is raw from the CNC. I need to remember I'm not making engine parts and allow a little more clearance for things.  The audio jacks are an exact fit and could cause them to bind when the tray is inserted. I'll add a little more clearance in production.

First photo taken next to a 32oz Gatorade for size reference. Second photo shows the size difference between the SFX and ATX versions.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 8, 2013)

The project manager for the company who waterjets called me back. His waterjet operator said the lense (over the LCD) is too small and it would drop through the grate in the waterjet. I was aiming at having the lense flush with the faceplate and the dimensions are critical for a press-fit clean look.

Obvious solution... What I decided was to try having the lense drop in from the rear. After drawing it up that way I like it better because the opening better serves the size of the display.

At this point, minor changes like this don't effect the tooling that's already been made for machining the part. It's just a matter of changing a few values in the CNC program.

Here's the before and after. What do you think?

Oh, and don't forget to thumbs up my video and leave some comments.  Titan ITX's ITX Gaming chassis. Full size GPU....


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## illli (Aug 8, 2013)

i think your solution for the display looks better than your original idea


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## Vario (Aug 9, 2013)

Yep, good improvement!


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## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 9, 2013)

Definitely better.

I shared your video link on my FB page


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## Gurudaz (Aug 9, 2013)

My atech fabrication case I own has the same type of faceplate VFD> it sits behind the front panel. I like my atech case I'm still considering using it for my gaming console, but feel it might now be too large despite it being only 11" deep (which is why I purchased it originally) it's all machined aluminum, very high quality and should be good at heat disipation...*but I'm still wondering what this case might look like and see if I can mod it if necessary.*


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 9, 2013)

Gurudaz said:


> My atech fabrication case I own has the same type of faceplate VFD> it sits behind the front panel. I like my atech case I'm still considering using it for my gaming console, but feel it might now be too large despite it being only 11" deep (which is why I purchased it originally) it's all machined aluminum, very high quality and should be good at heat disipation...*but I'm still wondering what this case might look like and see if I can mod it if necessary.*



I spoke with atech years ago about producing my chassis. To put it nicely he was "aggressively uninterested".

Which model do you have?


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## Gurudaz (Aug 10, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> I spoke with atech years ago about producing my chassis. To put it nicely he was "aggressively uninterested".
> 
> Which model do you have?



Ya I spoke to them about a custom chassis as well, I think he mentioned somthing of a minimum order of about 100 units @ $800 a pop. :shadedshu


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 11, 2013)

Not much to update today. I started fiddling with the add-on hard drive bracket that holds the two extra 3.5" HDDs where the GPU goes. The solution attaches to the main drive bracket and is secured with one screw. It is also symetrical and idiot-proof to attach it. The combined drive assembly can still be removed as one unit. With the bracket, the chassis holds 3x 3.5", 1x 2.5", and 1x slim optical drives. The extra bracket will be sold separately for those uninterested in a graphics card. Mainly home theater users requiring the storage capacity which would be 12TB (3x 4TB). I think the majority of users will want the graphics card so there's no reason to add the cost of the bracket in every unit. All 3.5" drives are on anti-vibration grommets.

I was showing my woodworking friend how things are drawn and textured in CAD and slapped a Cherry wood finish on the top and side panels. He LOVED it. Now he wants one just to make a wooden enclosure for it. If I like how his turns out I may have him make a few extra. I'm sure someone, somewhere would like it.


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## de.das.dude (Aug 11, 2013)

sub!


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## micropage7 (Aug 11, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> Thanks happita.  So far so good.
> 
> How do you guys like this power button? I'm sending it to the injection molder on Monday.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=52071&stc=1&d=1375601181



TPU button 
looks pretty cool


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 11, 2013)

I think I can show some of the parts without worrying too much at this point.

The first image shows the two drive trays locked together. I removed the properties from the lower tray so it would be easier to see.

The second image shows the drives in place.

Third image with optical drive added.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 12, 2013)

micropage7 said:


> TPU button
> looks pretty cool


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 13, 2013)

Here's the anodizing sample I received. I need to have a word with them about the greasy finger marks.

The switch button isn't in yet but I stuck an LED in there so you can see what that looks like. Last pic shows the screws in the corners.


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## juntzo (Aug 14, 2013)

The big players are on it.
Look at what Silverstone is offering now! http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=411&area=en






And this:http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=395&area=en


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 14, 2013)

Neither of those hold a full size gpu. Knowing that, they're too big for their purpose.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 15, 2013)

3am update?

My plastic parts should be finished Monday. Friday I might get to see the first set drop from the mold. This week 1000s of screws, stand-offs, spacers, grommets, o-rings, rivets, fans, bags, ect. all showed up. Man this is alot of stuff. I spent half the day tagging bins, bagging, and organizing everything.

I've been tinkering with the drawing because for the life of me I couldn't figure out why one of the sheetmetal parts didn't unfold correctly. I eventually gave up and just redrew the part. Works fine now. I also had another idea. Rather then glue the lens into the faceplate, I might make retaining clips to make it easy to remove, clean, replace, re-color, whatever. I have a friend working for a company that bends wire. Don't worry, it won't add to the cost.  It's a fairly fast process. Have a look. Fastest Wire Bending in the World. AFE-2D6 ULTRA C...

Almost forgot. The eject button had a poor look/finish on the end that's visable. The button itself is stainless steel and would shine up great if I could only find a way to hold it without buffing my fingers off. I designed a tool to hold it in a drill so it can be spun to put a proper finish on it.


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## lZKoce (Aug 15, 2013)

The Silverstone stuff is nice, I was quite hyped about the ML05 (the 1st one you posted). Not just as HTPC, but daily use for me personally. But the PSU us really messing it up. Where I live I can only get standard ATX 140mm or 150mm or longer PSU's. Things like Flex PSU or SFX PSU are literally non-existent. Even if I get one, what do I do if it breaks down? And that single low-profile slot- I don't dig it. I know it's a slim chasis, but there are dual-slot low-profile cards, I just want to have the option that's all.

Keep up the good work, I really hope you can take off with your initiative.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 15, 2013)

That was Juntzo who posted those up.

There's a ton of small chassis out there but they all miss the mark one way or another. It's not easy getting alot of power into a small chassis. The biggest problem in making a small chassis fit a large powersupply is making room for all the wiring. Until the industry starts making some changes in standards, chassis will continue to have their limitations. Take SATA and Molex power connections for example. What drives/devices have ever used the current those connectors are capable of? None. They can easily be half the size they are. The industry should also ditch the 3.3v, 5v, and negitive 12v rails. Completely useless. Everything could run off a 12v rail. If other voltages are required, they can buck it down on the PCB.

Intel is producing a slim ITX that has an IO shield half the height of a standard IO shield. That's a start towards slimmer computing.

The only company I can think of that takes advantage of every square inch is Apple/Mac. They make everything so it's easy for them to optimize space.

Computers are such a competitive market that it's probable not worth the risk to make a change in standards. Anyone who does would likely get accused/sued for "creating a monopoly" if their product is "too unique". That's the other problem, lawyers, politics, greed, ect..


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 16, 2013)

Fan shopping again. Here are some options.

1.  3-pin fans and 3-pin manual fan controller similar to a Zalman Fanmate. Adjustment is internal. Fan max 2000rpm.
2.  3-pin fans and 3-pin manual controller WITH 4-pin PWM input. PWM Adjustment via. BIOS/software. Fan max 2000rpm.
3.  3-pin thermistor controlled fans. No adjustment. Fan speed 800-2000rpm.
4.  4-pin PWM fans with molex-powered controller with PWM input. Adjustment via. BIOS/software. Fan max 2000rpm.


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## t_ski (Aug 16, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> Fan shopping again. Here are some options.
> 
> 1.  3-pin fans and 3-pin manual fan controller similar to a Zalman Fanmate. Adjustment is internal. Fan max 2000rpm.



This, but put a knob on the back so you don't have to open the case to adjust the speed.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 16, 2013)

Two more down. The Silenx Effizio EFX-08-12 and EFX-08-15 (rated 1400rpm 12db and 1700rpm 15db respectively) are designed in a way that puts the edge of the blade parallel with the motor spokes. Not good. Congratulations Silenx, you've made a rotary siren.

If the fan blades are curved, they should curve in a direction opposite the motor spokes. If they line up it creates a shutter that chops the airflow which produces a tone or buzzing sound.

Here's a couple examples of what I mean.

The first image is correct. The second is incorrect.


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## de.das.dude (Aug 16, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> Two more down. The Silenx Effizio EFX-08-12 and EFX-08-15 (rated 1400rpm 12db and 1700rpm 15db respectively) are designed in a way that puts the edge of the blade parallel with the motor spokes. Not good. Congratulations Silenx, you've made a rotary siren.
> 
> If the fan blades are curved, they should curve in a direction opposite the motor spokes. If they line up it creates a shutter that pulses the airflow which produces a tone or buzzing sound.
> 
> ...



lol, there are quite a few fans like that. i wonder what the designers were thinking.

"hey lets make this loud, so they know its working"


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 16, 2013)

I don't know what they were thinking. Probably about getting paid and going home. Not alot of pride in manufacturing anymore.

Is there much interest in a half-height GPU chassis? Something Xbox sized? I took a shot at a 10x10x2.5" version. Looks doable. Limited to a single SSD but it would have an internal 300w PSU without the need for a power brick. Something like that would come pre-built with an i5 and a GPU like that Palit GTS450 (shown below). It would be a totally proprietary system but it'll game and it's cheap.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 17, 2013)

Gurudaz - You may get you your wish. I make a bracket to hold a 120mm radiator above the motherboard. It holds the radiator but also blocks the air vents so airflow is directed through the radiator. This should allow AIO water coolers (like the Corsair H55) to fit but their 120mm fan will not be needed. Airflow would be provided by the current 80mm fans which amounts to 62cfm@2000rpm when running relatively silent. They may even outperform a 120mm fan because they're not choked up against the radiator. The H55 is slightly less at 57cfm 1700rpm. I don't have time to test a prototype right now but I'll place the required mounting holes in the current assembly and have a few brackets made to test later on.


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## lZKoce (Aug 18, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> I don't know what they were thinking. Probably about getting paid and going home. Not alot of pride in manufacturing anymore.
> 
> Is there much interest in a half-height GPU chassis? Something Xbox sized? I took a shot at a 10x10x2.5" version. Looks doable. Limited to a single SSD but it would have an internal 300w PSU without the need for a power brick. Something like that would come pre-built with an i5 and a GPU like that Palit GTS450 (shown below). It would be a totally proprietary system but it'll game and it's cheap.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=52223&stc=1&d=1376633959



Consider the realease date of that card- Palit gts450. They are much smaller now:

Sapphire HD7750 low-profile

Club 3D HD7750 

Zotac GTX 650 low profile 

They are all about 17 cm in length. Just about a Mini ITX board.

Of course there is interest. ME  Ever since I saw this little bugger. That's my home modding project. But I just want a scaled down version of Silverstone FT02- most beautiful case evar  Good thing, good people have it on SketchUp for me.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 18, 2013)

lZKoce said:


> Consider the realease date of that card- Palit gts450. They are much smaller now:
> 
> Sapphire HD7750 low-profile
> 
> ...



I know it's been around awhile but their cooling system is how everyone should be doing half-height cards, or every video card for that matter. There's zero advantage using heatsinks with axial fans that blow hot air everywhere INSIDE the already cramped space of a SFF chassis. If I built a system like that it would be much smaller, very optimized, and it looks like I'd have to make my own GPU coolers too.  Those 1U PSUs are also an issue.

I'm going to keep playing with one of the other designs because I'd still like to build the smallest ITX chassis I can that supports high end gaming. Right now it's 11.6(w) x 10.75(d) x 2.5"(h), has 300w internally and full height double wide GPU up to 10" or roughly a HD4870 sized card. I'm killing time while waiting for parts.


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## Gurudaz (Aug 18, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> I know it's been around awhile but their cooling system is how everyone should be doing half-height cards, or every video card for that matter. There's zero advantage using heatsinks with axial fans that blow hot air everywhere INSIDE the already cramped space of a SFF chassis. If I built a system like that it would be much smaller, very optimized, and it looks like I'd have to make my own GPU coolers too.  Those 1U PSUs are also an issue.
> 
> I'm going to keep playing with one of the other designs because I'd still like to build the smallest ITX chassis I can that supports high end gaming. Right now it's 11.6(w) x 10.75(d) x 2.5"(h), has 300w internally and full height double wide GPU up to 10" or roughly a HD4870 sized card. I'm killing time while waiting for parts.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=52268&stc=1&d=1376787900



*Nvdia's Volta GPU will be shrunk down considerably, when they enable the ram to be stacked on top of each other. This should equate to a high end GPU with half height form factor (or at least the card should be 7-8" long) compared to the standard 10-11" gtx680> I picked up a GTX 680 for my build and the length specs are way off> the card specs at 10.5" when in fact it's close to 11".

How does this relate to small itx chassis form factor? It means the next gen of Nvidia gpus will be shrunk down in size and reduced power consumption could be run off a 300-400 PSU with no issue. Small gaming gpu card with the 10X the performance of whats availlable now.




Volta will bring a new way of creating photo realistic graphics> what this means possibly is that now the card can render shades, objects and textures...take that data...store it in the ram where it now can be used by the gpu when it needs to recall those effects...the ram will be capable of storing 1TB of data it can access at any time...basically if you want to compare it to how  games will work...take a vehicle as an object in an environment, in that environment requires hundreds of textures and shades to be rendred...the gpu can do this but not in real time...so all those shades and textures are now stored in the ram...and called upon moment by moment as the frames progress, thus creating a more realistic lighting effect that allows to gpu to do other functions.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 18, 2013)

Gurudaz said:


> *Nvdia's Volta GPU will be shrunk down considerably, when they enable the ram to be stacked on top of each other. This should equate to a high end GPU with half height form factor (or at least the card should be 7-8" long) compared to the standard 10-11" gtx680> I picked up a GTX 680 for my build and the length specs are way off> the card specs at 10.5" when in fact it's close to 11".
> 
> How does this relate to small itx chassis form factor? It means the next gen of Nvidia gpus will be shrunk down in size and reduced power consumption could be run off a 300-400 PSU with no issue. Small gaming gpu card with the 10X the performance of whats availlable now.
> 
> ...



I agree cards will get smaller. A 6" card tomorrow will do what todays 10" card does. That doesn't mean 10" or 12" cards will stop being produced. There will always be larger sized cards because there will always be room for it, power for it, and demand for it. If they start stacking memory, the card will stay the same size but simply have more memory. It's like CPUs. As soon as they get faster, the OS gets bigger. Software will always keep hardware in check but continue to improve our experience overall. GPUs will still be $400, The OS will still be slow, average FPS will still be 30-60, but it'll look better.

Just remember, money controls advancements in technology, not human ability. We are capable of much more.


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## Gurudaz (Aug 18, 2013)

*



			Just remember, money controls advancements in technology, not human ability. We are capable of much more.
		
Click to expand...

*

* I agree, Look at the Nazi's/ Germans? they developed technology that was decades away and in 10 years they developed technologies that would obscure todays pace of technology. Once you take wall street out of the equation, then pressing the Star-Trek button becomes much more easier and frequent.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 20, 2013)

Quick update:

The injection molding is running behind but I had a chance to see the molds today. Not much to say other then it looks like my parts, inverted.  Should have them this week.

In the mean time:

I'm fiddling around with ideas that take me back to my first plan to build THE smallest mini-ITX gaming system possible. I've always looked back since this project started and I cringe every time I have to add a millimeter here and a millimeter there. All I can say about this little guy is... It's under 3" tall, less then 12" wide, and less then 11" deep. About the size of an Xbox360 but thinner. It will have an internal 400w PSU without the need for an external power brick. The PSU fan is near silent under load. The idea is to be as minimalistic as possible. That means 2.5" drives only, no optical drive, and likely only one or two USBs up front for user interfaces. If you have to load a game or app via. CD or DVD you will need an external drive but once you fill it up it's very portable. If these systems ever come to be, they will be pre-built with a GPU included. Probably something along the lines of an AMD quad or an i3/i5/i7 with up to four GPU options. Two each (high-end/low-end) from NV and AMD (an HD7870 will fit in it). That's about all you'll be able to choose from.

Today's test was with a modified 300w AthenaPower FlexATX PSU. Other options include TFX PSUs. Load was a Q9550/HD5870/Valley benchmark. That's only about 250w from the wall but it gives me a good idea how well it'll hold up.

I used a FlexATX because there isn't a form factor that complies with my intentions so I'm making it. The FlexATX PSU's normally use a 40mm fan that's ridiculously loud under load and completely unacceptable. I'll only be using it's guts but placing it in a different enclosure that allows for a larger fan and much better airflow over the heatsinks.

Attached is a pic of me screwing around at work to see if a fan blowing down on the PSU was enough to keep the 40mm fan from spinning up. If the 40mm fan stays quiet, then it must be nice and cool. If the 40mm starts spinning up when the heatsinks hit, to pick a number, 60c, then if it stays quiet they must be below 60c. Take a look at how cramped it is. No wonder that little fan has to work so hard. There's hardly any room for airflow. With the 60mm at 2500rpm blowing down on it, the hottest component was the transformer at 50c and the 40mm didn't make a peep.

The whole point was to see if these types of PSU's (that have very small PCBs) were capable of powering a somewhat high-end gaming system IF they had more optimized cooling. I would say a 150w GPU and a 95w CPU makes a fairly capable gaming rig.

The Poptarts used for size reference were eaten after the test.


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## de.das.dude (Aug 20, 2013)

take the guts out and put them on separately!


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 20, 2013)

de.das.dude said:


> take the guts out and put them on separately!



It becomes a safety issue. Quite often the heatsink on the primary side is live, as is the case with the 300w Athena Power Flex-ATX 1U supply above.

Using TFX internals is going to be the way to go. Take a look at this 300w InWin PSU. The upright heatsinks placed parallel with the airflow (altered fan placement) will likely offer better cooling then the 1U solutions. TFX supplies are available with 400~500w of claimed output.


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## Random Murderer (Aug 20, 2013)

Lazzer408 said:


> TFX supplies are available with 400~500w of claimed output.



Which, depending on OEM, model, and connected hardware, means 350-450W of good, stable power.
It also looks like(on that model, at least) the heatsink orientation is better for your purposes, and the footprint(case aside) is a bit smaller.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 20, 2013)

If the system specs were something like a 660ti or 7850 we'd see ~150w 12.5a for a GPU. An i7 4770 (overkill for the application) is only 84w 7a. The only other thing in there is the board, ram, and two 2.5" drives. Say another 50w?. 284w total. Under normal use it's probably half that and a 300-400w would be plenty.

The HD5870 tested claims 188w 15.6a and I did run into an issue with the system rebooting when exiting a 3d application. When I plugged in my PCIe filter the problem went away. My guess is there's a spike that trips the PSU's current limiter. The Flex's 12v rails are only rated for 16a. I'm playing on the edge as it is.

This particular filter provides an additional 6000uf (6x 1000uf 105c) of filtering placed near the graphics card. It significantly reduces ripple at the card. The effects even show up on the 3.3 and 5v rails. In the case of that Flex ATX it prevented PSU shutdown due to OCP tripping. I'm sure everyone and their brother will start selling them after this post. lol


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## Gurudaz (Aug 22, 2013)

* I thought most modern PSU's now have built in ripple features already.


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## Lazzer408 (Aug 22, 2013)

SATA data cables and Y power cables are in.  Arctic cooling F8 80mm non-pwm fan samples are also in.  I really like this fan. Not too loud but it really moves some air considering it's only 2000rpm.  The motor and fluid dynamic bearing are silent.  Arctic Cooling calls the fan "Perfectly Quiet" but it's not.  There's definitely some blade hum but that goes away when the speed is reduced.  Since a speed controller is being provided, I'm going to go with this fan because of it's 31 CFM rating and it's 6 year warranty.

Four of these fans moving 31 CFM add up to 124 CFM.  Chassis volume is 0.41 cubic feet.  It's volume of air is moved 300 times a minute or 5 times a second.  It will be less due to obstructions but they are impressive figures to look at.

As mentioned, the chassis will fit a 120mm radiator but uses two 80mm case fans to push air through it. These Arctic Cooling fans claim to have a high static pressure due to it's 9-blade impeller design. I would agree that the pressure is definitely higher then some of the other fans I've tested but I don't have the equipment to measure it.  I'm anxious to see how they perform with a 120mm AIO WC loop.




Gurudaz said:


> * I thought most modern PSU's now have built in ripple features already.



They have caps in the output stage that help smooth power delivery but often they're rated using a resistive load which only reflects it's ability to smooth the ripples produced by the switching in the supply.  If you watched the 12v rail on a scope and placed a 10a resistive load on it you would see noise at a fairly high frequency caused by the power supply.  The PSU's tiny caps are fine for filtering that.  Now use a GPU with a load that fluctuates (with frame rate) between 8a and 12a (10a average). Take a look at that on the scope.  It's a mess!  Even though the average load is still 10a, those 12v spikes can cause a PSU's current limiter to trip.  That was exactly the case in my test.


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## de.das.dude (Aug 23, 2013)

thats a nice psu u got there.


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## diminutive (Nov 18, 2013)

Hey Lazzer408, will you be willing to sell your PSU individually?

My friend came across a few of these: 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/G-Alantic-G...6180?pt=US_Computer_Cases&hash=item256bb7ee64


and it's practically begging to be modded with your psu.


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## Lazzer408 (Nov 29, 2013)

diminutive said:


> Hey Lazzer408, will you be willing to sell your PSU individually?
> 
> My friend came across a few of these:
> 
> ...


 
Replacement components will be available.  I have g-a cases in the shop and it won't fit.


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## Geekavenger (Dec 31, 2013)

With steam machines coming out soon I think a lot more cases of this type are going to start popping up on the market. (Examples ASrock A8 and Silverstone Raven).  I was wondering 2 things
1) do you think you will make a no-optical option now that SteamOS is coming onto the market?
2)When do you think these things will be available?


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 1, 2014)

Geekavenger said:


> With steam machines coming out soon I think a lot more cases of this type are going to start popping up on the market. (Examples ASrock A8 and Silverstone Raven).  I was wondering 2 things
> 1) do you think you will make a no-optical option now that SteamOS is coming onto the market?
> 2)When do you think these things will be available?



1 - There are variations of the chassis including a 'bare minimum' model consisting of ITX components, a 2.5" hdd/ssd, and add-on GPU, years before Steam "thought it up" 
2 - I don't have a release date yet but I'm working on a partnership with another company that may help get things moving faster then they are.


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## MattyD (Jan 8, 2014)

May I suggest that you hit market as quickly as possible? There are already competitors releasing similar product with them gradually moving into your form factors making it more difficult for you to sell in the long run.  On top of that, the steambox is seriously shaking up the market and you can see companies coming into this side of the market with similar form factors.

By selling a limited number of units at a higher margin to account for higher costs, you can put the profit back into ramping up production while simultaneously working out the minor bugs you wouldn't figure out yourself.


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## Silentmob (Jan 24, 2014)

Hey there Lazzer,

Been following this thread/case for awhile now. But very recently I decided to actually build a slimmer HTPC/gaming rig than what I currently have and this case is basically everything I've been wanting in small computer case: stylish HTPC look on the outside, enough space to fit a full sized GPU on the inside, ability to change the orientation, and a "large" PSU to run it all. So congratulations on that part.

However, I noticed that the last post was about a month ago and I just wanted to check in and make sure you were still developing this case. I have no doubt that it will generate good sales especially in today's market. With the introduction of steamOS and steam boxes many consumers are going to be looking to a case very similar to this. As far as the market goes, there are very many good mITX and mATX cases out there, but none that are slim and stylish, placing this case in a very specific setting.

Again, I just wanted to check in and see how production was going. Any idea when it is going to hit the market? And how were the reviews?

EDIT- Have you checked out the 1U server size PSU's? EVGA has a 500W 80+ Gold in their Hadron Air case


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 25, 2014)

Yes I'm still nibbling at it just much slower then expected. The two plastic parts (power switch retainer and power button) came in. 1000pcs of each. The power button doesn't have as tight a fit as I'd like so we're revising the die to place a lip on the back of the button to prevent any chance it could pop off. The devil truly is in the details.

Server power supplies are not quite. They don't have to be in a server environment. Unless EVGA had the PSU manufacturer address the issue, it will likely wind up with the same noise problem the Revolt has. Noise. During my testing, the average system load running synthetic benchmarks was 250~350w depending on the components. An i7 4770k @4ghz with an HD7870 sat around 300w. An 80% psu will use 375w worth to put out 300w. That's 75w of heat to get rid of which is just 10w less then a 4770k generates. It's not a huge amount of power but imagine cooling an i7 with a 40mm fan. I was aiming for silent to near silent operation even under heavy loads and I'm very happy with the results of the prototypes.

Sorry guys. Just hang in there.


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## happita (Jan 25, 2014)

Creating an idea like this and bringing it to fruition is much easier said than done. I'm sure Lazzer has a regular 8 hour, 5 days a week job. This might just be a hobby for him at the moment. I just hope it's worth the wait because I for one have been planning on building a small form factor ITX system for my HDTV in the living room for quite some time, but I keep on waiting for cooler CPUs (14nm Broadwell) and GPUs (20nm AMD/Nvidia) so that it would be a perfect mix of power/tdp/temps. Make us proud Lazzer!!


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## Silentmob (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm just really looking forward to the release of this case 
You do you Lazzer!


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## beefycarnivore (Feb 5, 2014)

I recently won a video card (an R9 280X), freeing up my Radeon HD 7870, so I've started looking into making my own slim PC. After a quick search, I found all of the retail cases to suck pretty bad. They're either small enough and don't fit a full size GPU, or fit a full size GPU and are too big for most entertainment centers. Glad to see someone doing it right (and like you said, way before "Steam Boxes").

Keep after it! Unfortunately I'm too cheap to buy one of your cases, but I still love what you're doing. My own design ended up being pretty similar, but is obviously not as polished as yours.

I'm making mine out of wood and calling it the "Bento Box". Japanese styled etching or woodburning.

I'm taking the guts out of PSU's I have laying around to and probably using a MicroATX board and a ribbon PCIE riser, and then just mounting all the parts to either half of the wooden box. Not slick, but it'll get me by.

I hope you get out into the market soon and kick some butt! You're the man!

PS. Things I've learned in this exercise, which I'm sure are old hat for you:

Standardized parts make this really tough. They have essentially set the shape of computers into tall, wide, boxes if you want anything with a dedicated GPU.
AMD processors use too much power for these little boxes.
There's a pretty big variation in component placement on motherboards. I've tried mocking up an intake port for the CPU (if you've ever looked inside DELL workstation boxes, you'll get the idea), but I pretty much have to wait until I decide on a board before placing it.
A 3.5" drive is NOT 3.5" wide; it's 4" 
These boxes could be a lot smaller if the power connection for the GPU wasn't on the top of the card.


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## Lazzer408 (Feb 6, 2014)

happita said:


> Creating an idea like this and bringing it to fruition is much easier said than done. I'm sure Lazzer has a regular 8 hour, 5 days a week job. This might just be a hobby for him at the moment. I just hope it's worth the wait because I for one have been planning on building a small form factor ITX system for my HDTV in the living room for quite some time, but I keep on waiting for cooler CPUs (14nm Broadwell) and GPUs (20nm AMD/Nvidia) so that it would be a perfect mix of power/tdp/temps. Make us proud Lazzer!!


 
About 84hrs a week. 6 days from 12pm to 2am.  Oh the joys of owning a gaming arena.  I only have a few hours for myself in the morning and whatever time I can sneak in during slow days.  Nose to the grindstone is an understatement.

There hasn't been much to update mainly due to the design being finalized.  I doubt you guys want to hear about how long it takes shipping my SATA cable orders from China. 

But there is some news.  A good friend in manufacturing (who's already made a couple 1000 parts for this chassis already) is teaming up to help push this to market as soon as possible.  We are hoping to start pre-sales soon and get this on Tiger's shelves ASAP.

The first run of power supplies will most likely be Delta-built Antec units that will be modified in-house.  The PSU warranty will be handled by us and PSU replacements will also be available for OOW (out of warranty) service.  General parts will be available as well should you scratch your faceplate, strip a thread, etc..  We want you to enjoy the chassis for as long as ITX is a standard.

On another note... Has anyone noticed the Steam box uses a C6 "micky-mouse" inlet connector for AC power?  I first looked at using the C6 because they're smaller (then the standard C14 PC power connector) but when I found the C6 only had a 2.5a rating, I abandoned the option.  In other words, the C6 is only rated to 300w.  The think the Steam box PSU is 450w.  I wonder how they received electrical certification.



beefycarnivore said:


> I'm taking the guts out of PSU's I have laying around


 
Do be careful. Some supplies have a live heatsink. Use an IR to measure temp. Do not touch it!


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## beefycarnivore (Feb 6, 2014)

Lazzer408 said:


> Do be careful. Some supplies have a live heatsink. Use an IR to measure temp. Do not touch it!



Thanks Lazzer. I don't plan on getting too hands on with it running, but I hadn't thought about the sinks being live. I'll check them for wiring and with a multimeter and see if I can't dig up an IR sensor for temp.

And with my box being wood, I wouldn't want to start any fires! Maybe I should call this the Tinderbox instead!

Can't wait to see your finished product and a big payoff for you!


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## BrandonFrisby (Feb 20, 2014)

If you're looking for any help with marketing, PR, or even just an interested investor, please feel free to contact me.
I love the concept behind what you're doing and I definitely think you've got a solid eye for quality and aesthetics - both key elements to really make a successful business with satisfied customers and a great bottom line. I'd love to help in any way possible to see that to reality.
Keep up the great work!
- Brandon


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## Lazzer408 (Feb 20, 2014)

I'm always open to new suggestions. Drop me an IM.


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## Sky2 (Apr 30, 2014)

So releasing this case already? At one point, you must do a first batch even if it's not absolute perfection, just like the guys with Ncase did, there now going for their 2nd batch with improvements based on the comments they received from initial launch.
Even apple don't release perfect design on the first try and improve their design year after year.

If I can add my 2 cents, i think the most compact configuration is the one (the one with no optical drive and small psu).
Don't lose your focus with by trying to make 3 different cases at the same time.


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