# Weird PCI Express x16 @ x1 problem



## baholete (Apr 15, 2010)

For about 1 month now i have a weird problem with my computer. PC specs are core2duo e4500 (2.4ghz), 2gbram ddr2, an asus mobo p5ld2-se and an asus v.card en8600gts silent.

Almost every time when i start it i need to reboot it once (force reboot from the button). When it's being started the first time he gives out 4 weird beeping sounds and just stays like that until restarted. After the manual reboot everything worked normal ... or so i thought.
Yesterday i found out something weird about the problem. I've installed Gpu-Z cause i wanna upgrade my video card and i noticed that my video card pci express slot was running at x1 speed instead of x16. Had no idea that this is related to the problem. Searched google for a good while for some solutions but none of them worked.
Today, my pc started without problems (no need for force restart, it happens to start like this rarely) and starting GPU-Z i noticed the slot running at full x16 speed. I thought maybe that the change to the slot frequency (from bios) fixed it but at next start of computer (with a forced restart) it was back at x1 speed. 

So, every time when the pc starts from first try the pci express slot runs normally at x16 speed. When the first start fails and i need to force restart, it works at x1 speed. I don't know if anyone knows what x1 speed does, so ill give a small example: running youtube movies at higher then 480p resolutions effectively crashes the browser, it lags like hell. I have to start task manager and end the process.

Sry for the wall of text, i wanted to be sure that i explained this very well, so maybe i can get help from anyone that encountered this problem before or heard of it. Help please


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## W1zzard (Apr 15, 2010)

power saving switches off pcie lanes .. put some 3d load on the card 

why is it that basically every day someone asks teh same question? what can i change in the user interface to make this more clear?


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## baholete (Apr 15, 2010)

I'm sorry, i know you're helping me here and that the answer is clear for you, but i have no idea what you just said.
What exactly is the problem? And what can i do to fix it? 
Why is it that sometimes (rarely) it starts fine and sometimes it doesn't? 
Sorry if i'm annoying you.

Edit: ok, i understood what you said and i tried it. The slot stood constantly at x1 speed what ever i pushed at the card... and it works like sh1t. From what i understood, x1 speed is even slower then AGPx1 which is ancient.

And i believe you didn't read all my post, you just jumped to that conclusion. The only moment the slot works at x16 speed si when the pc starts without failing at first. And when it starts like that, the slot is constantly at x16 no matter of power saving or w/e you can think of. I was thinking of maybe updating the mobo bios, but this problem appeared about a month ago, it worked fine until then. Is it maybe some faulty hardware? And if yes, why not always? And what could be the problem? Mobo or video card?


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

No one that can help me?


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## Mussels (Apr 16, 2010)

some times you get a bad mobo or card (or just a bad connection) and it drops to 1x.

the rest of the time, its just power saving slowing it down - and its asked about a looooot.


try blowing any dust out of the slot, and cleaning the cards copper contacts with a dry cloth.


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

Ok, understood. Gonna turn off the pc and clean it up. Gonna come up with the result later.


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

Nope, same problem. The pc fails the first start like in 95% of cases and pci express slot is stuck at x1 speed.

Maybe i should mention that, i had this problem since like forever. More exactly, i used to have a faulty start once every week or so. When this happened i used to turn off the power completely to the pc (unplug the power cord) for a few minutes then it would work normally for another week. 
But since 1 month ago the roles kinda reversed. It starts normally about once a week or so. And when it happens this, the slot works normally at x16 speed and all of the time until next restart. And cutting the power solution doesn't work anymore. 
Does this look like broken mobo? Or video card? I'll go test the card today at a friend and see how it works.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 16, 2010)

sounds like a possible PSU issues - one of my friends use to have a similar issue with cold starts all the time because the power supply he was using wasnt good enough for the job - that changed when he got a new one though.

whats the wattage & the make/brand name of your powersupply??


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## qubit (Apr 16, 2010)

Sounds like you have a hardware fault. The most likely culprits are the mobo, PSU & graphics card in that order.

FreedEclipse's PSU question is pertinent and should be answered.

Also, please fill out your system specs (accurately and detailed) so people can help you better.


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

No idea what brand it is but it's a pretty old one. It is from an old computer that got an upgrade. Only the chasis, psu and hdd were kept from it. It writes on the sticker on it "total output is 330W max."
I wanna get a new v.card anyway, a hd5770 so i guess a new psu is needed anyway. But, is this really the problem?

PC specs:
Proc: core2duo e4500 (2.4ghz),
Motherboard: asus p5ld2-se
Ram: 1+1 GB ddr2 800 kingmax
V. card: asus en8600gts silent 256mb

Anything else that u want to know and is relevant here?


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 16, 2010)

the psu would the the issue then im guessing



> The minimum requirements are :
> 
> Minimum of a 400 Watt power supply.
> (Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 22 Amp Amps.)
> ...



if the power supply your using is a really really old one then chances are its highly likely that that would be causing the issues

.:EDIT:.

most sites recommend having at least 450watts


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

I would believe so but then again, why did it worked fine for ~1 year or so? 
Anyway, im goin' now to a friend and im gonna test everything. First his PSU on my system, then my v card on his. This should show which of psu, mobo or v card is the culprit.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 16, 2010)

everything works fine untill you push them so hard they eventually break down. & this is what seems to be the case here.


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

Posting with new PSU now, it behaves exactly the same. So it isn't the PSU problem. Gonna try my v card on his system now.

Freedom, none of the components were overcloacked.


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

His system didn't even start with my video card and my system started perfectly with his 8800gts. 

So the video card is busted. Is it any danger to my other components if i continue to use it until i get a new card?


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 16, 2010)

I wouldnt risk it personally. & i would still recommend getting a new PSU as that 'unbranded' 330watt amp seriously limits your choices for upgrade as you have to pick the card that consumes the least amount of power. 

Even if you cant afford the higher end units - even a lowly Corsair CX400 (400watts) its still amazing value for money, has the right amount of amps & should be able to power most non-high end systems.

I wouldnt trust your current powersupply - buying a well known brand might cost more but you can garantee that all the components in it are top grade & is something you can trust even when it does come to overlocking.

Just because the powersupply is cheap doesnt mean quality parts went into it. & if the powersupply fails to regulate the voltage it could may well kill your pc


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## qubit (Apr 16, 2010)

baholete said:


> Posting with new PSU now, it behaves exactly the same. So it isn't the PSU problem. Gonna try my v card on his system now.
> 
> Freedom, none of the components were overcloacked.



So what is this "new" PSU then? Is it another underpowered and well-used no-name brand? You have to be more specific if you want quality help. 

Most likely the problem is a combination of dodgy motherboard and/or dodgy PSU.

Fill in your specs too please, like I advised.

Giving out vague info is just wasting everyone's time.


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

The new PSU was my friends, a 400W one but sadly, i did not look at what brand it is. Anyway, his pc works perfect so, if my PSU was the problem it shoudl've worked fine with his. 

Now i have another problem, i'm gonna lay out the tests that i've done in order.

1) Firstly, i used his PSU on my pc and it behaved identical as with my own PSU;
2) Secondly, i installed my video card on his system but it didn't worked. The pc started, you could hear it loading and entering windows but the monitor didn't lit up;
3) Thirdly, i installed his asus 8800gts on my pc and it worked flawlessly. Even with my underpowered PSU. I even shut down the pc a few times and started again to be sure it works fine. Not even once did the computer failed to start;
4) He gave me a spear video card he had in his house, an older ati card (x800 or x1150, something like this anyway) and, surprise surprise, i had the same problem again. The pc failing to start every time and pci express port running at x1 speed.

My specs are posted above, if u need to know anything else that is relevant i can say.
This problem is worthy of x-files, at least from my point of view. With his asus 8800gts pc worked perfect. With my asus 8600gts or his x1150 ati card the pc fails to start every time. His monitor does not lit up with my video card on his system. 
So, what the hell is wrong here? Maybe just the motherboard?


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 16, 2010)

baholete said:


> 4) He gave me a spear video card he had in his house, an older ati card (x800 or x1150, something like this anyway) and, surprise surprise, i had the same problem again. The pc failing to start every time and pci express port running at x1 speed.



well that doesnt help much, the X800 is a more power hungry card & requires at least 480watts to be on the safe side. The X1150 is a radeon mobility card last time i looked so it couldnt of been that one as they only come with laptops.

------

stop using unbranded power supply units as the unit stats are very often misleading so you dont actually know if it has the same power output it claims it does. unlike a more well know brand such as Antec, Corsair or OCZ etc etc.


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## Mussels (Apr 16, 2010)

theres no danger, i've ran cards with this problem before.


my advice, is to look at w1zzards reviews on either the GTX  280 or HD 5870 where he tested PCI-express scaling - i've noticed some cards/boards with this issue can be 'fixed' by taping over some of the PCI-E lanes - you know, the card doesnt work at 16x so it drops to 1x, but thats not to say 4x or 8x wont work fine.


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

FreedomEclipse said:


> stop using unbranded power supply units as the unit stats are very often misleading so you dont actually know if it has the same power output it claims it does. unlike a more well know brand such as Antec, Corsair or OCZ etc etc.



Let's forget for a second about the PSU brand. Just explain me this:
Why is the 8800gts working on my pc flawlessly and the 8600gts plus the x<something> old ati card aren't, while on his pc both the 8800gts and the ati card work while the 8600 doesn't lit the monitor?
Only conclusion i can draw is that his mobo had a compatibility issue with my 8600gts and my mobo has a hardware problem.. But then again, WHY did his 8800gts worked perfect on my mobo?

And btw, i started my pc using his more powerful and 'branded' PSU and i still had the same problem...


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## Mussels (Apr 16, 2010)

baholete said:


> Let's forget for a second about the PSU brand. Just explain me this:
> Why is the 8800gts working on my pc flawlessly and the 8600gts plus the x<something> old ati card aren't, while on his pc both the 8800gts and the ati card work while the 8600 doesn't lit the monitor?
> Only conclusion i can draw is that his mobo had a compatibility issue with my 8600gts and my mobo has a hardware problem.. But then again, WHY did his 8800gts worked perfect on my mobo?
> 
> And btw, i started my pc using his more powerful and 'branded' PSU and i still had the same problem...



please read the post i made just above yours - i've dealt with this issue before, whereas most people in this thread are relying on logic and intuition.


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

Mussels said:


> please read the post i made just above yours - i've dealt with this issue before, whereas most people in this thread are relying on logic and intuition.



I understand what ur saying, to start the card on x4 or x8 but then again, what if somewhere down the line i'm gonna start having the same problem as with x16? I want to know what exactly is the problem so i can fully fix it, not a cheap bypass. 

Like i said, until a month ago it worked perfect, like it should, to it's fullest (the pc). Since then, something broke. Something that makes my pc fail to start in 95% of cases (or even more) and i have to force restart it to work. But when i do this, the pci express slot works at x1 speed. If the pc starts from first try, the slot works at x16 normal speed.
*WHAT* the hell broke? I'm ripping hair from my head over here, help me ppl 

What should i buy? A new psu (this will be changed certainly anyway)? A new mobo? A new videocard?


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## Mussels (Apr 16, 2010)

baholete said:


> I understand what ur saying, to start the card on x4 or x8 but then again, what if somewhere down the line i'm gonna start having the same problem as with x16? I want to know what exactly is the problem so i can fully fix it, not a cheap bypass.
> 
> Like i said, until a month ago it worked perfect, like it should, to it's fullest (the pc). Since then, something broke. Something that makes my pc fail to start in 95% of cases (or even more) and i have to force restart it to work. But when i do this, the pci express slot works at x1 speed. If the pc starts from first try, the slot works at x16 normal speed.
> *WHAT* the hell broke? I'm ripping hair from my head over here, help me ppl
> ...



the problem is the cards bad. you cant fix it. your testing already confirmed its the GPU thats the problem.

And theres nothing to say the problem wont re-occur later at 8x or 4x... but who cares, you'd get another 6 months out of it.


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

Ok, so, why did i have the same problem with the ati card? Does it have exactly the same problem? 
And this ati card works perfect on his pc.


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

Still need help over here 
I wanna buy a his 5770 1gb tomorrow BUT i wanna be sure that my mobo is working fine. Cause if the the mobo is busted, ill have to replace that first.


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## FreedomEclipse (Apr 16, 2010)

> ATI Radeon™ HD 5770 System Requirements
> 
> * PCI Express® based PC is required with one X16 lane graphics slot available on the motherboard
> * * 450 Watt or greater power supply with one 75W 6-pin PCI Express® power connectors recommended (600 Watt and two 6-pin connectors for ATI CrossFireX™ technology in dual mode)
> ...



no point buying decent hardware if your not going to get a decent power supply to run them. with that said, it seems we are going in circles here & you dont seem interested in listening. so I shall leave it here & wish you the best of luck which ever path you choose to take.


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

baholete said:


> What should i buy? A new psu (*this will be changed certainly anyway*)? A new mobo? A new videocard?



I already said i'm gonna change this, ofc ill buy a new psu with the new v.card. From the answers i got it seems that almost no one is carefully reading what i say and THAT'S why we move in circles.


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## jagd (Apr 16, 2010)

relax man take a look here you are not buying anything until visit that page  http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=522&pgno=0


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## baholete (Apr 16, 2010)

I've visited that page before i created this thread and tried what it said there. The only thing that worked was changing the slots frequency. From first try i modified it to 110 and the pc worked fine for 1 day. It was started about 5-6 times and every time it worked fine.
The next day the problem appeared again and changing the pci express slot frequency didn't help this time. 
I really REALLY don't know what is wrong and what component to replace.


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## qubit (Apr 17, 2010)

baholete said:


> Ok, so, why did i have the same problem with the ati card? Does it have exactly the same problem?
> And this ati card works perfect on his pc.





baholete said:


> I've visited that page before i created this thread and tried what it said there. The only thing that worked was changing the slots frequency. From first try i modified it to 110 and the pc worked fine for 1 day. It was started about 5-6 times and every time it worked fine.
> The next day the problem appeared again and changing the pci express slot frequency didn't help this time.
> I really REALLY don't know what is wrong and what component to replace.



I'm telling ya man, ya have a bad mobo and that iffy PSU certainly doesn't help. Your comment about moving the card nails it.

Look, I work in IT and repair and troubleshoot PCs as part of my hobby and as a living. So I know a thing or two about this and I like nothing better than helping fellow enthusiasts, especially if they're just starting out.  So, please listen to my advice. It isn't possible to tell with certainty what the problem is by leaving all the components together; there's just too many possibilities.

All this crap about changing frequencies and it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, just tells me that it's on the way out. Even digital electronics can go haywire and semi-random; I know, I've been there. You shoulda seen that mental digital answering machine I had a decade ago. The little fucker was possessed, I tell ya.  Out of warranty, it found its way to the bin pretty sharpish.

You need to troubleshoot it by separating the damn things. You've already done part of it by trying the graphics card in another PC and seeing it work right. This tells you the mobo's bad; it can't be the PSU - it would crash solid instead or shutdown, stuff like that. It's even better to get a double verify by using another card and seeing it do the same thing. Unfortunately, these problems are often marginal, temperamental and intermittent, making this difficult, but you have to try. There's lots of little things you can try when you swap your cards too, such as wiggling them and so on, but there's too much to go into here, so just have a think when you fit the spare card.

To get a properly functioning PC, you need a new mobo and PSU, no doubt. This is good advice and please listen to the others in this thread too, they obviously have experience as well.

Good luck m8. 

And you still haven't filled in your system specs. You really should do that when asking for troubleshooting help. You can't expect people to scour the thread to find this out in order to help you.


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## Mussels (Apr 17, 2010)

baholete said:


> Ok, so, why did i have the same problem with the ati card? Does it have exactly the same problem?
> And this ati card works perfect on his pc.



i missed that, it may be on the motherboard side then.


remember that you can have more than one problem at a time, so its possible that the PCI-E slot and video card crapped out at the same time


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## baholete (Apr 17, 2010)

Ok i've put fast some stuff in that profile. 

First of all, i've tried my video card on 2 other systems and both of them had the monitor not starting like the pc was turned off. Yes, you could hear windows loading but the monitor wasn't starting. Don't know exactly what mobo's they had, but one was an older asrock one and the other was a pretty new intel board.

And second, i've tried 3 graphics cards on my system. One is mine, 2nd is an older asus ati card (somewhere on it, it says "EAX550HM512/TD/256M/A") and the third is an Asus 8800GTS 320M model. 
And this is were the sh1t hits the fan. While both the 8600gts and the older ati card were starting the pc, they both had the problem i laid out in the first thread. PC failing first boot and pci express slot running at 1x speed.
The 8800GTS on the other hand, worked *PERFECT*. The PC started from first try every time and the pci express slot worked at x16 speed every time, all of the time.

I don't know what to make of this. Anyway, i've decided to get the new HD5770, a good PSU and a new mobo with crossfire support for a 2nd HD5770 a little later down the line.

*BUT*! I would love if someone can tell me what is broken from my components taking in consideration what i said above.


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## Mussels (Apr 17, 2010)

the X550 is a radeon X550

http://www.summagoods.com/product/1...k_eax550hm512_td_graphics_card,1897491_7.html


with the information you gave, i think power. the slots wonky (inside the mobo perhaps, bad capacitor, whatever) and therefore, only cards which draw most of their power from an external source (8800GTS) work.


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## qubit (Apr 17, 2010)

Ok, baholete, firstly, thanks for filling in those specs - 'crap system 9000' is a nice touch.  I don't blame you.

From your latest description, it's beginning to sound like your original graphics card is bad for sure and your mobo likely. Your PSU is very likely causing funnies too, judging by that 8800GTS working fine. It could also be an issue with the mobo BIOS... see what I mean about endless possibilities?! lol

The thing to do now, is to beg, borrow or steal a *decent** branded PSU (420W or higher) from a friend and see if those three graphics cards start up normally. It really wouldn't surprise me if you have three duff components there, my friend; it does happen unfortunately. Heck, you could throw in your original card, now confirmed bad... bet it works fine just to have you tearing your hair out! 

The other thing you need to do, is to have the barest minimum connected to make the system boot and give you a picture ie only CPU, mobo, *one*** stick of RAM and graphics card. Unplug literally _everything_ else, including the mouse. This eliminates the possibility of a duff component screwing with your mobo and confusing it. Heck, you can even remove the keyboard, but then you obviously can't control the PC. Again, there's too many fine details to try, so can't go into all the possibilities here and is the sort of thing that becomes apparent to one as your fiddling with the system.

Another thing to do is to clear the CMOS RAM, as in removing the battery, using the clear jumper and loading defaults. This one's quite important to do (and don't forget to put the battery back!) Also, if you have any other jumpers on that board, set them to their safest or default positions. I would like to recommend you flash your BIOS to the latest version too, but your system is too flaky for that right now and a bad flash will brick it instead, so don't do it. You may want to consider it if the system is running stable with that spare PSU though, but please run it past us first.

At the risk of you having answered this earlier, your system isn't overclocked right now is it? Everything must be running at stock speed for troubleshooting.

*Corsair, Enermax etc (not so keen on Antec anymore; tend to have problems, from experience and forums)

**You can try swapping sticks if system still acting weird


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## baholete (Apr 17, 2010)

I've changed the bios to the last 3 versions and with all of them i had the same problem.
What i want to do, and wanted to do some time ago is to clear the CMOS RAM. 
BUT, i didn't knew how to remove the battery. What i mean, is that it wouldn't come out easily and i didn't wanna force it out (stupidest thing that can be done) so, please, can someone show me an walkthrough or something on how to do this. Exactly the steps that i need to take.

And no, nothing is overcloacked. I tried a few months ago to use the mobo's bios overclock profiles but whatever i choosed, after reboot, i got an error that looked something like this:
"overclock failed, loading default values".
The profiles were like this: 
"5% overclock"
"10% overclock"
"etc."
So i gave up : ). Didn't dared to try manually if even the built in profiles weren't working.


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## baholete (Apr 17, 2010)

Ok, cleared the cmos memory too, even have a new PSU from a friend 450W and still the same problem. The only time when it worked fine was when i had the 8800gts plugged in. Maybe it was just a weird coincidence that it worked so i'm gonna repeat that test as soon as my friend gets home.


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## qubit (Apr 17, 2010)

Ok dude, looks like you've tried everything reasonable to nail the source of the problem. I'd say your mobo is bad - and with confidence, too. That little m/f sounds like my mental answering machine. 

Time to byte the bullet and get yourself a nice Gigabyte Ultra Durable board. 

Is this Asus POS still under warranty, perhaps? <crosses fingers>

It's kinda weird how that Asus board works with the Asus video card only though. Could just be coincidence though - mixing brands isn't normally a problem.


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## baholete (Apr 17, 2010)

Posting with the ASUS 8800GTS 320M installed aaaaand...... everything works perfect. Yep, i'm either crazy or the computer is.
The POS is out of warranty but i don't care, fack it.

Btw, both the 8600gts and 8800gts are ASUS. Difference is that one is silent (passive cooling) and other, 8800, has active cooling.


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## baholete (Apr 17, 2010)

And now i'm posting with the "ASUS en8600gts silent" installed. As u can see on the pic in this post, same problem again :|

I'm gonna buy the hd5770 and if the pc works fine with it, i'm gonna keep this mobo until i buy the 2nd 5770.


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## Corduroy_Jr (Apr 17, 2010)

did u attempt what qubit requested, with only the basic's one stick of memory/cpu/video card, if so this 450watt psu u borrowed from friend, whats the make and model?


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## jagd (Apr 17, 2010)

I heard x550s refused work on x1  before ,it is probably why did not work on your mobo.I think you have 2 problems , first died 8600gt 2nd mobo working at x1 not x16 .


baholete said:


> And second, i've tried 3 graphics cards on my system. One is mine, 2nd is an older asus ati card (somewhere on it, it says "EAX550HM512/TD/256M/A") and the third is an Asus 8800GTS 320M model.


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## baholete (Apr 19, 2010)

just a little heads up, i've just tested a gigabyte 8500GT also, and the card worked perfectly. 

So the verdict is: busted ASUS 8600GTS card.
What really made this seem like a very weird problem is, the ati x550 which had the same problem like my 8600gts. Very odd ...


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## Mussels (Apr 19, 2010)

baholete said:


> just a little heads up, i've just tested a gigabyte 8500GT also, and the card worked perfectly.
> 
> So the verdict is: busted ASUS 8600GTS card.
> What really made this seem like a very weird problem is, the ati x550 which had the same problem like my 8600gts. Very odd ...



while its very unlikely, its certainly not impossible to have two bad cards


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## jagd (Apr 19, 2010)

Welcome to PC world ,paradise of weird problems  .

I think x550 is ok and still working ,problem was your x16 slot  working at x1 and it refused work at x1 .Do me a favour test this x550 on another pc and write result .x550 was one of the first pci-e cards it should not surprise anyone if has this kind of problem ,especially hyper-memory models 

Btw working at pci-e x1  can be signal of failing card ,some users experienced this before their card failed (at my google search)  .And finally this pci-e bug is a combination of a series things and you may not  face with 5770.




baholete said:


> So the verdict is: busted ASUS 8600GTS card.
> What really made this seem like a very weird problem is, the ati x550 which had the same problem like my 8600gts. Very odd ...


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## <<Onafets>> (Apr 20, 2010)

Does anyone think his CPU will bottleneck the new card?


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## baholete (Apr 21, 2010)

Last update:
Got the new card and a poor mans PSU, a raidmax 500W, and everything worked fine until now. Yes, most probably the cpu bottlenecks it, but it will be upgraded also as soon as the budget allows it (new mobo -> 2nd v. card -> new cpu).

I'll test that x550 on other pc when i have the chance and tell you the result.


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