# AMD B550 Chipset Detailed, It's Ready for Zen 3, Older AM4 Motherboards not Compatible



## btarunr (May 7, 2020)

In their briefing leading up to today's Ryzen 3 3100 and 3300X review embargo, AMD disclosed that its upcoming "Zen 3" 4th generation Ryzen desktop processors will only support AMD 500-series (or later) chipsets. The next-gen processors will not work with older 400-series or 300-series chipsets. This comes as a blow to those who bought premium X470 motherboards hoping for latest CPU compatibility running into 2020. At this time only B550 is available, but we expect more news on enthusiast chipsets as the Zen 3 launch date comes closer. AMD B550 is a fascinating new mid-range chipset by AMD. Launching today as a successor to the popular B450 chipset, B550 is a low-power silicon with roughly the same 5-7 W TDP as the older 400-series chipset. Although AMD won't confirm it, it's likely that the chipset is sourced from ASMedia. It brings a lot to the table that could draw buyers away from B450, but it also takes some away.

The AMD B550 currently only supports 3rd generation Ryzen "Matisse" processors. Ryzen 3000 "Picasso" APU are not supported. What's more, older Ryzen 2000 "Pinnacle Ridge," "Raven Ridge," and first gen Ryzen 1000 "Summit Ridge" aren't supported, either. The Athlon 200 and 3000 "Zen" based chips miss out, too. AMD argues that it ran into ROM size limitations when trying to cram AGESA microcode for all the older processors. We find that hard to believe because B450 motherboards with the latest ComboAM4 AGESA support 2nd gen and 3rd gen processors, including APUs and Athlon SKUs based on the two. On the bright side, AMD assured us (within its marketing slides for the B550), that the chipset will support upcoming processors based on the "Zen 3" microarchitecture. The company also came up with a new motherboard packaging label that clarifies that the processors won't work with the 3400G and 3200G. 



 

 




AMD B550 motherboards will feature partial PCI-Express gen 4.0 support. The main PCI-Express x16 slot, and one of the M.2 NVMe slots that are wired to the "Matisse" processor will be PCI-Express gen 4.0, however, all downstream PCIe lanes put out by the B550 chipset are gen 3.0. This is still a step up from 400-series "Promontory" chipsets, which are limited to gen 2.0. B550 puts out eight PCIe gen 3.0 lanes, which combine with the 20 usable processor lanes from "Matisse" to take the platform's total PCIe budget to 28 lanes (x16 gen 4.0 + x4 gen 4.0 + x8 gen 3.0). The B550 chipset itself connects to the "Matisse" processor via a PCI-Express 3.0 x4 connection. 

In terms of connectivity, AMD's B550 chipset puts out up to six SATA 6 Gbps ports with AHCI and RAID capability; two each of 10 Gbps USB 3.2 gen 2 and 5 Gbps USB 3.2 gen 1 ports; and six USB 2.0 ports. PCIe, SATA, and USB connectivity from the "Matisse" processor is unchanged: four 10 Gbps USB 3.2 gen 2 ports, and up to two SATA 6 Gbps ports. 



 

The processor includes a PCI-Express 4.0 x16 PEG connection that can be split between slots. AMD is allowing motherboard designers to have multi-GPU capability with the B550, where the x16 PEG link is split between two x16 slots (electrical x8). Previously this capability was limited to the top-tier X370 and X470 boards. The processor also puts out one PCI-Express 4.0 x4 link meant to drive one M.2 NVMe slot or U.2 NVMe port. Every B550 motherboard we've seen so far features one M.2 PCIe gen 4.0 x4 (64 Gbps) slot.



 

As with both its predecessors, the B350 and B450, the new B550 chipset enables full multiplier-based CPU overclocking, along with broad memory overclocking support. Motherboard designers are at liberty to kit out the B550 with the most elaborate CPU VRM solutions. Expect some of the pricier B550 boards to match their X570 counterparts in overclocking capability.

Motherboards based on the AMD B550 chipset are expected to launch on June 16, 2020. Prices start at $100, according to AMD.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## ChristTheGreat (May 7, 2020)

Well, I'll grab a lower price 3700/3800/3900 , except if zen 3 is incredible. Inwant to swap my 1700 for my 3600x for faster IPC.

Well, it will be the time to upgrade my Sister's computer


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## bug (May 7, 2020)

> Although AMD won't confirm it, it's likely that the chipset is sourced from ASMedia.


What do you mean AMD won't confirm it? i thought this was common knowledge from day 1.


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## the54thvoid (May 7, 2020)

Wait? No. So my planned 3 generation CPU path on one, original mobo is shafted? I'm pretty sure it was never promised but I'm certain future upgrade on the old X370 was spoken on for Zen 3?

If true, this sucks big time.


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## R-T-B (May 7, 2020)

the54thvoid said:


> Wait? No. So my planned 3 generation CPU path on one, original mobo is shafted? I'm pretty sure it was never promised but I'm certain future upgrade on the old X370 was spoken on for Zen 3?
> 
> If true, this sucks big time.



I thought Ryzen was always only promised out to Ryzen 2, aka you get a refresh and a new arch, but thats it.  Could be wrong though...  I rode that train quite a while ago.


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## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

I guess people that have invested in an X470/B450 motherboard are going to be pissed off that they can't use a Ryzen 4000 CPU in their boards...

Shame the CPU uplink isn't PCIe 4.0.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

the54thvoid said:


> Wait? No. So my planned 3 generation CPU path on one, original mobo is shafted? I'm pretty sure it was never promised but I'm certain future upgrade on the old X370 was spoken on for Zen 3?
> 
> If true, this sucks big time.


Same here bro , though I was waiting on x670 in the hope it will support Ryzen 3#££ , I wanted pciex  4 but it's looking dubious.


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## trom89 (May 7, 2020)

After waiting for the B550 boards so long, gave up on a B450+3600... not being able to upgrade to the next gen kinda sucks.


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## Caring1 (May 7, 2020)

"The company also came up with a new motherboard packaging label that clarifies that the processors won't work with the 3400G and 3200G."


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## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Same here bro , though I was waiting on x670 in the hope it will support Ryzen 3#££ , I wanted pciex  4 but it's looking dubious.


From what I've been told, there is no X670.

Also, if those board images are of actual B550 boards, there's going to be sooooooooo much consumer confusion, as half of the slots are never going to be usable, based on the PCIe lane count of the platform. I think this is a poorly done job by the board makers.


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## dj-electric (May 7, 2020)

dj-electric said:


> ...
> Wait until they hear about 400 series support for upcoming Zen3 chips
> ...


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## Space Lynx (May 7, 2020)

Wait I was planning on upgrading my 3600 to a 4800x on my b450 tomahawk max... now your telling me I can't... wtf????


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## Chomiq (May 7, 2020)

Lots of people will be upset by this.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> From what I've been told, there is no X670.


What ever?, I have not heard anything about it tbf but they're going to release zen 3 on something.
Or is x570 expected to last until am5


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## Space Lynx (May 7, 2020)

Luckily I am in the refund window still thanks to extensions. I will be refunding my tomahawk max now and waiting for B550, wow this is a shitty move, everyone told me it was a safe move to go from 3600 to 4800x on tomahawk max b450.

I have a half a mind to sell my ryzen 3600 cpu now and just go back to intel and z490 since its about to come out, if I have to buy a new mobo every two generations might as well go with Intel, and Navi drivers are a disappointment, so might as well stick with tried and true Intel and Nvidia combo yet again. so long AMD you had a good run


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## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> What ever?, I have not heard anything about it tbf but they're going to release zen 3 on something.
> Or is x570 expected to last until am5


Possibly, yes. This is coming from people I know at the motherboard makers. Maybe there's no point for another chipset from AMD's side, until they move to their DDR5 and potentially PCIe 5.0 supporting CPUs. Keep in mind that the X570 was sort of forced, since ASMedia couldn't deliver on PCIe 4.0, so they took the I/O die of the Zen 2 and turned it into a chipset.
I don't have a source at AMD, so maybe they're planning something else, but so far, it's not something that's known outside of the company, if that's the case.



lynx29 said:


> Luckily I am in the refund window still thanks to extensions. I will be refunding my tomahawk max now and waiting for B550, wow this is a shitty move, everyone told me it was a safe move to go from 3600 to 4800x on tomahawk max b450.
> 
> I have a half a mind to sell my ryzen 3600 cpu now and just go back to intel and z490 since its about to come out, if I have to buy a new mobo every two generations might as well go with Intel, and Navi drivers are a disappointment, so might as well stick with tried and true Intel and Nvidia combo yet again. so long AMD you had a good run


Everyone being? People on forums? But AMD never said this would be the case, right?
If you'd bought into the first gen Ryzen, you could've used your CPU on an X370 board, so that's three generations...
Sorry you feel like you got screwed, but it's not really the case.


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## Nioktefe (May 7, 2020)

Waiting for zen 4 it is then, what a bad move, thanks crybaby motherboard maker


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## Space Lynx (May 7, 2020)

first gen ryzen couldn't keep ram stable for it's life. so not really, 2 generations if we talking stable performance.


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## bug (May 7, 2020)

the54thvoid said:


> Wait? No. So my planned 3 generation CPU path on one, original mobo is shafted? I'm pretty sure it was never promised but I'm certain future upgrade on the old X370 was spoken on for Zen 3?
> 
> If true, this sucks big time.


Yeah, well, I already pointed out the X570 doesn't support first gen Zen, we already knew only a couple generations are supported at one time.
Here's hoping X570 _does_ support Zen3 (considering how AMD blames the lack of space for enough AGESA variations).


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## ShurikN (May 7, 2020)

The slide says Ryzen 3000 not supported on X370, but if I recall correctly, a lot of X370 boards support 3rd gen Ryzen. I wouldn't be surprised if board vendors give X470/B450 support for 4th gen Ryzen.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> first gen ryzen couldn't keep ram stable for it's life. so not really, 2 generations if we talking stable performance.


That's a skewed perspective, yes Ryzen 1 was shit at Xmp but if you got compatible memory and didn't try to exceed it's limit it worked stable and without issue, I have two within my fixit remit that I have not fixed in two years and their owners are not enthusiasts and are very happy with them but I did learn the hard way.


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## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

Nioktefe said:


> Waiting for zen 4 it is then, what a bad move, thanks crybaby motherboard maker


What does this have to do with the board makers?



lynx29 said:


> first gen ryzen couldn't keep ram stable for it's life. so not really, 2 generations if we talking stable performance.


Huh? What are you talking about? There was some compatibility issues, especially at higher speeds, but mine work fine for two years at 2933MHz and later 3000MHz. It wasn't ideal maybe, as it was a 3200MHz kit, but it was stable as stable could be.
My 3800X was just as flaky and it wouldn't run that memory over 3000MHz either. It took three months of updates until my current system worked properly.



bug said:


> Yeah, well, I already pointed out the X570 doesn't support first gen Zen, we already knew only a couple generations are supported at one time.
> Here's hoping X570 _does_ support Zen3 (considering how AMD blames the lack of space for enough AGESA variations).


It's in the slide up top...


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## dicktracy (May 7, 2020)

Always knew they were scumbags after increasing mainstream and HEDT prices. Don’t let their cultists tell you otherwise!


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## bug (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> It's in the slide up top...


Indeed it is.


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## Cheeseball (May 7, 2020)

Wooooooo so it was a good idea to invest in a X570 board early on.


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## apoklyps3 (May 7, 2020)

now this is an intel like dickmove )


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## trom89 (May 7, 2020)

ShurikN said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if board vendors give X470/B450 support for 4th gen Ryzen.



And miss the opportunity to sell new boards? Dunno.
*This official "not supported" from AMD is the perfect scapegoat. *


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## TristanX (May 7, 2020)

too small ROM, hahahaha
It is very difficult, to prepare ROM with limited / removed support for Ryzen 1000 / 2000 just to make space for Ryzen 4000.


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## bug (May 7, 2020)

TristanX said:


> too small ROM, hahahaha
> It is very difficult, to prepare ROM with limited / removed support for Ryzen 1000 / 2000 just to make space for Ryzen 4000.


These boards being mainstream, probably don't pack 256Mbit ROMs


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## Space Lynx (May 7, 2020)

just set up my refund for my b450 tomahawk max, will be going z490 and intel 10 core, and ampere. fk it


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## logain (May 7, 2020)

I can understand leaving out the 1st and 2nd gen Ryzen CPU support. Leaving out 3200g and 3400g support is just stupid. Either they don't care about APU's anymore, or there are some new ones coming soon, that we are just not aware of.


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## Cheeseball (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> just set up my refund for my b450 tomahawk max, will be going z490 and intel 10 core, and ampere. fk it



Just go for a 3800X/3900X and a X570 and call it a day. Hell, go for 3950X if you got the budget. Amazon US has it for $720 at the moment and I'm trying not to be tempted.


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## bug (May 7, 2020)

logain said:


> I can understand leaving out the 1st and 2nd gen Ryzen CPU support. Leaving out 3200g and 3400g support is just stupid. Either they don't care about APU's anymore, or there are some new ones coming soon, that we are just not aware of.


You do realize 3200G and 3400G ARE 2nd generation Ryzens, don't you?


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## Space Lynx (May 7, 2020)

Cheeseball said:


> Just go for a 3800X/3900X and a X570 and call it a day. Hell, go for 3950X if you got the budget. Amazon US has it for $720 at the moment and I'm trying not to be tempted.



nah, Z490 is almost here. might as well go with that will get the $169 MSI Z490 board and the $499 Intel 10 core, and hopefully rtx 3080 will be out before cyberpunk 2077 comes out. i really enjoy overlcocking gpu and navi was never able to deliver on that stable, i won't be overclocking cpu so ryzen is still decent, but i might as well go with z490 now that its here. it will be faster in most games i expect, 9900k still beats amd by 5-10 fps across the board. i expect it will be around same here if not a little more.


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## Apocalypsee (May 7, 2020)

Mobo manufacturer can bypass this, you can see A320 boards supporting Ryzen 3000 series no problem at all.


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## bug (May 7, 2020)

Apocalypsee said:


> Mobo manufacturer can bypass this, you can see A320 boards supporting Ryzen 3000 series no problem at all.


Yes, but they do it by dropping some features. Whether that affects you or not will vary, official support would have been nicer.
Personally I'm not fretting over this, but supporting several generations with the same chipset _was_ one of Ryzen's selling points, I can see how some are getting a dose of reality check now.


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## IceShroom (May 7, 2020)

Is the slide showing out of box compatibility?? X370/B350 boards defenetly support Mattise cpus with updated UEFI, but the slide only showing it supports X470/B450.


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## R0H1T (May 7, 2020)

bug said:


> Yes, but they do it by dropping some features. Whether that affects you or not will vary, official support would have been nicer.
> Personally I'm not fretting over this, but supporting several generations with the same chipset _was_ one of Ryzen's selling points, I can see how some are *getting a dose of reality check now.*


The issue is supporting Zen3 on x3xx or x4xx boards will mean a lot of compromise & workarounds for AMD, board partners & consumers. Then when something doesn't work or a (low quality?) board craps out the user will bring his *tiki torch* for the MB vendors &/or AMD, this is definitely unexpected though the move to PCIe 4.0 & 16 core necessitated it!


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## bug (May 7, 2020)

IceShroom said:


> Is the slide showing out of box compatibility?? X370/B350 boards defenetly support Mattise cpus with updated UEFI, but the slide only showing it supports X470/B450.


The slide shows what AMD mandates. Support for anything else is up to the manufacturer.


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## logain (May 7, 2020)

bug said:


> You do realize 3200G and 3400G ARE 2nd generation Ryzens, don't you?



Yes, but there is no justifiable reason not to include them, as they are a starter CPU, for many. I can understand leaving the 2nd gen CPU's out, but these APU's should be included.


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## bug (May 7, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> The issue is supporting Zen3 on x3xx or x4xx boards will mean a lot of compromise & workarounds for AMD, board partners & consumers. Then when something doesn't work or a (low quality?) board craps out the user will bring his tiki torches for the MB vendors &/or AMD, this is definitely unexpected though the move to PCIe 4.0 & 16c ore necessitated it!


Which is why I didn't give Intel any grief over changing sockets. But there are those that disagree with my view 



logain said:


> Yes, but there is no justifiable reason not to include them, as they are a starter CPU, for many. I can understand leaving the 2nd gen CPU's out, but these APU's should be included.


I don't think you understand how this works. Support is added for the entire architecture, not on a per SKU basis.


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## xman2007 (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> first gen ryzen couldn't keep ram stable for it's life. so not really, 2 generations if we talking stable performance.


Don't be silly I've ran several mismatched kits on ryzen 1 and b350 since the very first bios which are nowhere near as refined as today's and had no problems, and even overclocked them, yes people had issues though you can't make out like it was the whole platform, it wasn't, and it has been 3 generations, some people are still rocking x370/b350 boards with ryzen 2



logain said:


> Yes, but there is no justifiable reason not to include them, as they are a starter CPU, for many. I can understand leaving the 2nd gen CPU's out, but these APU's should be included.


They're zen+ not zen2 though


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## R0H1T (May 7, 2020)

bug said:


> Which is why I didn't give Intel any grief over changing sockets. But there are those that disagree with my view


Intel did this every gen, even when it wasn't needed. They're not at all comparable in the least.
ASUS is on record saying Z370 boards didn't need to exist, for 8700k, yet Intel forced the change. False equivalence there


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## trom89 (May 7, 2020)

bug said:


> These boards being mainstream, probably don't pack 256Mbit ROMs



Most of the MSI "MAX" boards have 256Mb (32MB), we shall see...
From my opinion I would gladly trade the GUI bullcrap (hate it btw), StoreMI and even raid support for Zen2 support.


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## Cheeseball (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> nah, Z490 is almost here. might as well go with that will get the $169 MSI Z490 board and the $499 Intel 10 core, and hopefully rtx 3080 will be out before cyberpunk 2077 comes out. i really enjoy overlcocking gpu and navi was never able to deliver on that stable, i won't be overclocking cpu so ryzen is still decent, but i might as well go with z490 now that its here. it will be faster in most games i expect, 9900k still beats amd by 5-10 fps across the board. i expect it will be around same here if not a little more.



If budget is of your concern, the 12-core 3900X is also at $432, which is good deal. I use a 2080 Super in mine and I don't have any problems. I would only go Intel if I absolutely need high FPS and even then thats only for competition.


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## bug (May 7, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> Intel did this every gen, even when it wasn't needed. They're not at all comparable in the least.
> ASUS is on record saying Z370 boards didn't need to exist, for 8700k, yet Intel forced the change. False equivalence there


Let's not go there again. All I said was I wasn't bothered then and I'm not bothered now.


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## R0H1T (May 7, 2020)

Sure but again they're not comparable, at least *IMO*.


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## IceShroom (May 7, 2020)

bug said:


> The slide shows what AMD mandates. Support for anything else is up to the manufacturer.


You also need to check the slide carefully , casuse there is a footmark with this line -> *Planned feature support,Subject to change. 
And there is nowhere says AMD mandates it.


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## windwhirl (May 7, 2020)

Cheeseball said:


> Wooooooo so it was a good idea to invest in a X570 board early on.


Yeah, same thought here. Bah, I had to buy a motherboard anyway (coming from Intel), so it wasn't like I was investing in something that I could potentially not need.



bug said:


> These boards being mainstream, probably don't pack 256Mbit ROMs


I'm not sure that ROM size limits are the true reason why AMD won't support 300 and 400 chipsets for Zen 3, but I don't know how much space is needed to support each Ryzen gen. And thinking about it, if Zen 3 really needs a lot of space, it would be a nightmare to have a BIOS version to support Zen & Zen 3 (for upgrading from a Ryzen 1700 on a X470 board to a Ryzen 4700X, for example), another to support Zen+ & Zen3, and another one to support Zen2 and Zen3. And we still haven't taken into account the UI that mobo makers add for the BIOS and some other stuff, I guess.

That aside, how much more expensive would it be for a consumer if motherboard makers used 256 Mbit ROMs? I think someone said it was like just an extra dollar per board to switch from 128 to 256Mbit per ROM chip...


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## bug (May 7, 2020)

windwhirl said:


> I'm not sure that ROM size limits are the true reason why AMD won't support 300 and 400 chipsets for Zen 3, but I don't know how much space is needed to support each Ryzen gen. And thinking about it, if Zen 3 really needs a lot of space, it would be a nightmare to have a BIOS version to support Zen & Zen 3 (for upgrading from a Ryzen 1700 on a X470 board to a Ryzen 4700X, for example), another to support Zen+ & Zen3, and another one to support Zen2 and Zen3. And we still haven't taken into account the UI that mobo makers add for the BIOS and some other stuff, I guess.
> 
> That aside, how much more expensive would it be for a consumer if motherboard makers used 256 Mbit ROMs? I think someone said it was like just an extra dollar per board to switch from 128 to 256Mbit per ROM chip...


I don't know specifics, but when Zen2 support was added to (some?) 128Mbit boards, features were lost in the process. Non-essential features, of course, but it's never nice to lose something you paid for.


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## IceShroom (May 7, 2020)

windwhirl said:


> That aside, how much more expensive would it be for a consumer if motherboard makers used 256 Mbit ROMs? I think someone said it was like just an extra dollar per board to switch from 128 to 256Mbit per ROM chip...


If the MB maker put more money on big  ROM chip, they cant put more useless RGB and RGB header on the board. RGB is more usefull than bigger ROM chip.


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## logain (May 7, 2020)

bug said:


> I don't think you understand how this works. Support is added for the entire architecture, not on a per SKU basis.



Granted it is up to the motherboard manufacturer, with regards to their bios support, but support, on a per SKU basis can be done, and has been done, in the past. Or look at old FX. While it was the same architecture, 760g didn't support beyond the FX 8350. Even if a motherboard manufacturer made a 760g board, with adequate VRM support, 760g didn't support FX 9xxx CPU's. Same arch different SKU's.

Or look at Intel requiring a different chipset, for Skylake, or better, E3 Xeons, because they didn't like people scooping them up, and dropping them into their regular consumer chipset equipped boards.


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## Cybrshrk (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> Luckily I am in the refund window still thanks to extensions. I will be refunding my tomahawk max now and waiting for B550, wow this is a shitty move, everyone told me it was a safe move to go from 3600 to 4800x on tomahawk max b450.
> 
> I have a half a mind to sell my ryzen 3600 cpu now and just go back to intel and z490 since its about to come out, if I have to buy a new mobo every two generations might as well go with Intel, and Navi drivers are a disappointment, so might as well stick with tried and true Intel and Nvidia combo yet again. so long AMD you had a good run



Hahahahaha

This is exactly why I canceled my 1800x x370 order in 2017 once I knew it didn't have the IPC to keep up with Intel. I always knew this dream was a half promise at best. Now I'm finally ready to upgrade and a 10900k and z490 is looking really good at least Ill get at least one cpu upgrade out of it. Lol

Truth be told it's a stupid idea to begin with u wouldn't want to keep my outdated motherboard today and slot in the 10900k for my 7700k. I don't even have addressable rgb just the old style not to mention no Pic express 4.0 or 2.5/10g ethernet. 

I find the upgrade window of every 3 years with a new cpu AND motherboard to be perfect fit. 

Well AMD the one excuse you had that others tried to use as a reason to go with you is gone and with it the final thought of me going with one at this point what's the point? 

Like the guy above said and stability and reliability just isn't anything close to Intel. 

I'm tired of troubleshooting booting problems for my friends who were duped into a ryzen setup.



TheLostSwede said:


> Possibly, yes. This is coming from people I know at the motherboard makers. Maybe there's no point for another chipset from AMD's side, until they move to their DDR5 and potentially PCIe 5.0 supporting CPUs. Keep in mind that the X570 was sort of forced, since ASMedia couldn't deliver on PCIe 4.0, so they took the I/O die of the Zen 2 and turned it into a chipset.
> I don't have a source at AMD, so maybe they're planning something else, but so far, it's not something that's known outside of the company, if that's the case.
> 
> 
> ...



No but my buddy who just bought a b450and a 3700) which he thought he'd get to upgrade to a much newer cpu in a year or 2 isn't going to be able to. 

He might as well have waited a week or 2 and went Intel.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> That's a skewed perspective, yes Ryzen 1 was shit at Xmp but if you got compatible memory and didn't try to exceed it's limit it worked stable and without issue, I have two within my fixit remit that I have not fixed in two years and their owners are not enthusiasts and are very happy with them but I did learn the hard way.


 my buddy with a confirmed kit and running within spec still has boot issues and finds he has to randomly remove 1 of the 4 sticks to get it running and it changes which one and in which slot. 

It's gotten so old he just ends up running 24gb ram 99% of the time.


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## R0H1T (May 7, 2020)

You don't have PCIe 4.0 on 10xxx chips


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## Cybrshrk (May 7, 2020)

apoklyps3 said:


> now this is an intel like dickmove )



Yes I'll take my dicking from the front and not behind my back also take it with reliable/stable system operation and the fastest gaming performance.



lynx29 said:


> just set up my refund for my b450 tomahawk max, will be going z490 and intel 10 core, and ampere. fk it



It's exactly what I did got my z490 board already in pre-order.

This was the final sign that I was making the right choice to stick with old reliable (and not to mention the best performance) I'll pay a bit more to never have to troubleshoot insane boot problems. I've already had to do it more than enough for friends.



Cheeseball said:


> Just go for a 3800X/3900X and a X570 and call it a day. Hell, go for 3950X if you got the budget. Amazon US has it for $720 at the moment and I'm trying not to be tempted.




It still doesn't (even being hundreds more) beat a 500 Intel cpu at gaming. That's all that matters to me and it's never going to be a crown amd wears.



Cheeseball said:


> If budget is of your concern, the 12-core 3900X is also at $432, which is good deal. I use a 2080 Super in mine and I don't have any problems. I would only go Intel if I absolutely need high FPS and even then thats only for competition.


My goal is 4k/120hz gaming (my displays native Max) and with a upgrade to whatever the fastest hdmi 2.1 gpu there is in my future I will not "settle" for amd and the one trick they had that was weighing on me is now gone and I'm free to choose Intel without any guilt.


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## dyonoctis (May 7, 2020)

Haha. I don't know why AMD couldn't annouce that sooner. Now we are having lots of knee jerk reaction from people feeling betrayed, and AMD went back to being a trash company with uncompetitive product. The little bit of faith that they painfully managed to get from some people is now gone forever. Ah well, they still managed to shook intel enough to make them react.

As usual, YMMV, but I never had any stability issues with my b350/1700x with 3000mhz memory. Some people are acting as if they really were interested in AM4, when they seemed to had a preference for Intel all along, and they are now rubbing it in the face of those who prefered AMD. "Now we are the one with an uppgrade path"


----------



## Cybrshrk (May 7, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> You don't have PCIe 4.0 on 10xxx chips


No but I (more than likely) have support for it if I decide to upgrade to a later cpu (a move that amd is now missing out on).


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

Cybrshrk said:


> Hahahahaha
> 
> This is exactly why I canceled my 1800x x370 order in 2017 once I knew it didn't have the IPC to keep up with Intel. I always knew this dream was a half promise at best. Now I'm finally ready to upgrade and a 10900k and z490 is looking really good at least Ill get at least one cpu upgrade out of it. Lol
> 
> ...


Individual issues are not the sole remit of AMD but you can if it makes you feel good imply that one equals everyone.

As for your friends they might want to take their pc to the shop for a proper setup .


----------



## TheinsanegamerN (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> I guess people that have invested in an X470/B450 motherboard are going to be pissed off that they can't use a Ryzen 4000 CPU in their boards...
> 
> Shame the CPU uplink isn't PCIe 4.0.


Count me in among them. I bought a X470 crosshair, and currently have a 2700x, was planning on grabbing a 4900x. When AMD said "we will support AM4 through 2020" everyone assumed, rightly, there would be forwards compatibility. If you're not going to support forward compatibility, why bother using the same socket?

I've put up with the random issues this board and CPU have with OCs, memory stability, and odd boot times on the promise of the 4900x. Serves me right for thinking AMD would hold up their end of the bargain, and given that Intel is STILL faster in games, might as well go back to intel.


----------



## Cybrshrk (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Individual issues are not the sole remit of AMD but you can if it makes you feel good imply that one equals everyone.
> 
> As for your friends they might want to take their pc to the shop for a proper setup .


Lol I'm a 22 year vet of the pc repair world they know who to go to when it's time for pc advice. 

Some of them still even call me for over the phone help after moving 4 states away. 

I'm much more knowledgeable than the kids they hire at geek squad. ( I would know I worked with many a bozo when I was younger).


----------



## tfdsaf (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> Luckily I am in the refund window still thanks to extensions. I will be refunding my tomahawk max now and waiting for B550, wow this is a shitty move, everyone told me it was a safe move to go from 3600 to 4800x on tomahawk max b450.
> 
> I have a half a mind to sell my ryzen 3600 cpu now and just go back to intel and z490 since its about to come out, if I have to buy a new mobo every two generations might as well go with Intel, and Navi drivers are a disappointment, so might as well stick with tried and true Intel and Nvidia combo yet again. so long AMD you had a good run



That is INSANE! Intel literally changes mobo chipset every new generation, which has been their old generation for the past 5 years. With AMD you had 3 generations of the same chipset that supports all the way up to Ryzen 3000.  So if you want to upgrade new mobo every year for the same processors with new names, you should definitely go back to Intel and stop shilling about them!


----------



## Cybrshrk (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Individual issues are not the sole remit of AMD but you can if it makes you feel good imply that one equals everyone.
> 
> As for your friends they might want to take their pc to the shop for a proper setup .


Sad thing too is I had started actually believing in my recommendation to go ryzen (I didn't in the beginning and is why I canceled my 1800x and left my friend dealing with those issues alone) and I still recommended them for my friend with a 2700x build that took me two days over the phone to get working properly. Now a 3rd friend has taken my advice and went 3700/b450 after my speech about how he will have "support" for upgrade for a while now. 


Oops but again it's my turn to upgrade and Intel has landed the answer just like the last time with the 1800x/7700k launches.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> nah, Z490 is almost here. might as well go with that will get the $169 MSI Z490 board and the $499 Intel 10 core, and hopefully rtx 3080 will be out before cyberpunk 2077 comes out. i really enjoy overlcocking gpu and navi was never able to deliver on that stable, i won't be overclocking cpu so ryzen is still decent, but i might as well go with z490 now that its here. it will be faster in most games i expect, 9900k still beats amd by 5-10 fps across the board. i expect it will be around same here if not a little more.


So you're getting a cheapo board with a super power hungry CPU? Makes perfect sense...
It's also hardly comparable with what you just bought, so it seems like you're just having an angry reaction to a press release for no apparent reason.



Apocalypsee said:


> Mobo manufacturer can bypass this, you can see A320 boards supporting Ryzen 3000 series no problem at all.


And you know this how?


----------



## Cybrshrk (May 7, 2020)

tfdsaf said:


> That is INSANE! Intel literally changes mobo chipset every new generation, which has been their old generation for the past 5 years. With AMD you had 3 generations of the same chipset that supports all the way up to Ryzen 3000.  So if you want to upgrade new mobo every year for the same processors with new names, you should definitely go back to Intel and stop shilling about them!


Keyword HAD! 

It literally doesn't matter as they've shown their "promises" to be quite hollow at times and who wants to take that risk. 

Not when Intel is STILL delivering better gaming performance and that's all I care about. 

The 7700k was the right move in 2017 and the 10900k is again in 2020. 

I'm a gamer on this pc above everything else and amd NEVER has been able to meet or exceed Intel where it matters most to me. 

And any benefits they did have over Intel (and were weighing on me heavily to just go with them) have now been proven to be a "hope" at best.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> Count me in among them. I bought a X470 crosshair, and currently have a 2700x, was planning on grabbing a 4900x. When AMD said "we will support AM$ through 2020" everyone assumed, rightly, there would be forwards compatibility. If you're not going to support forward compatibility, why bother using the same socket?


It's quite clear those assumptions were not right.

The socket is being supported, everyone's assumptions are what aren't supported.

They simplifies motherboard OEM build support by retaining features like pciex and the socket, that's actually the simple bit to explain, less to learn equals good.

I'm in the same boat but my assumptions were measured by fact from the start so I'm less surprised by this it seams.

@Cybrshrk that was banter, but naming one occasion and implying it's the norm will bring out such comments , personally I found there's memory that's supposed to work that's flakey.
So I stopped buying that for Ryzens, since buying patriot viper for such systems all my issues and theirs evaporated but there are other memory suppliers putting adequate test and spec in place, Corsair is not and are a good example of dodge and avoid, Even labeled supported memory from them is not great.

Then there's the boards, total shitshow at the mid to low end, but again that's my perspective it doesn't mean shit verses the world and I wouldn't suggest any different since YMMV.


----------



## Cheeseball (May 7, 2020)

Cybrshrk said:


> It still doesn't (even being hundreds more) beat a 500 Intel cpu at gaming. That's all that matters to me and it's never going to be a crown amd wears.
> 
> My goal is 4k/120hz gaming (my displays native Max) and with a upgrade to whatever the fastest hdmi 2.1 gpu there is in my future I will not "settle" for amd and the one trick they had that was weighing on me is now gone and I'm free to choose Intel without any guilt.



Sure, it doesn't beat it at *high framerate/FPS gaming* and that's only because the CPU is able to boost beyond the 4.7 GHz of the 3950X. I only see this as an advantage if you are a pro-gamer (e.g. you join a league or such that pays for your wins) or online streamer that needs to minimize 1% lows.

Aiming for 4K @ 120 Hz doesn't help with this at all and is only for the average action-filled game or if you're going for visual fidelity. This can be achieved with any modern AMD or Intel CPU now, with AMD being more efficient with their products at the moment.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

logain said:


> Yes, but there is no justifiable reason not to include them, as they are a starter CPU, for many. I can understand leaving the 2nd gen CPU's out, but these APU's should be included.


AMD's APUs are one generation behind in terms of the model name vs. the CPU core, so these are 2nd gen.


----------



## Cybrshrk (May 7, 2020)

Cheeseball said:


> Sure, it doesn't beat it at *high framerate/FPS gaming* and that's only because the CPU is able to boost beyond the 4.7 GHz of the 3950X. I only see this as an advantage if you are a pro-gamer (e.g. you join a league or such that pays for your wins) or online streamer that needs to minimize 1% lows.
> 
> Aiming for 4K @ 120 Hz doesn't help with this at all and is only for the average action-filled game or if you're going for visual fidelity. This can be achieved with any modern AMD or Intel CPU now, with AMD being more efficient with their products at the moment.


When you're aiming for the most fps and throwing as much gpu as you can you need to cpu to back it up. I don't want to be a 90 fps when I COULD be at 100-110.

Im just using an example and don't know how close these gpu/cpu combos will get to my goal but it's a hard goal to reach and every bit extra helps. 

And I mean why would I SETTLE for less than when I don't have to?


----------



## tfdsaf (May 7, 2020)

logain said:


> Yes, but there is no justifiable reason not to include them, as they are a starter CPU, for many. I can understand leaving the 2nd gen CPU's out, but these APU's should be included.


If the mobo doesn't support ANY 1st and 2nd gen, how can they support 2nd gen 3200g and 3400g? 

Why they don't support older gen? Probably because everyone whines and cries like little babies if they try to run B550 with a old R5 1600 and its got issues or instability or whatever, everyone readies their pitchforks. AMD would rather not deal with that shit, and have a clean slate, where they can focus on having amazing and stable experience for the 3000 and 4000 series!

Why hear you cry like baby if it has issues, demanding endless support, maybe some would like Athlon 64 support too on these boards? 

Intel literally changes chipset compatibility every year, every generation, no one cries about it, everyone accepts it as if its word from god, but AMD does it in order to have a clean slate and be better positioned for stability and good experience and everyone brings their torches and pitchforks! 

They can't win, everyone is so freaking entitled!


----------



## logain (May 7, 2020)

Cybrshrk said:


> Yes I'll take my dicking from the front and not behind my back also take it with reliable/stable system operation and the fastest gaming performance.



Enjoy spending more for that meager performance gain. The cost to get that meager CPU performance gain is enough to move up to a better tier of GPU. B550 pricing shouldn't be much different than B450 pricing, for motherboards. So you could get a 3700x, and a B550 board, for not much more than the cost of the i7 10700k, by itself. Right now you can do a 3700x, and a B450 Tomahawk max, for around $410. The tray pricing, on the i7 10700k is $374, and you still have to buy a cooler.  Factor in the board cost, for the Intel chip, and the cooling to tame such a beast, and you are easily moving up to a higher tier of GPU, which is going to matter far more. Very few people are going out an buying 2080ti's, but I bet if people are left with having to choose between a 2060s and and a 2070s, or a 2070s vs a 2080s due to CPU choice, they are going to rather have that better GPU. 

That is what is so great about Ryzen, now. People have a real choice, after years of just recommending Intel for everything. Until my 3700x, I ran nothing, but Intel, for my main rig, since core 2. Price/peformance is where I shop, and right now, AMD has that crown.


----------



## Cybrshrk (May 7, 2020)

Cybrshrk said:


> When you're aiming for the most fps and throwing as much gpu as you can you need to cpu to back it up. I don't want to be a 90 fps when I COULD be at 100-110.
> 
> Im just using an example and don't know how close these gpu/cpu combos will get to my goal but it's a hard goal to reach and every bit extra helps.
> 
> And I mean why would I SETTLE for less than when I don't have to?


Also I'm not playing counter strike or league of legends here I'm talking real games that actually put a demand on a system.

Cyberpunk 2077 for example.


----------



## R0H1T (May 7, 2020)

Cybrshrk said:


> No but I (more than likely) have support for it if I decide to upgrade to a later cpu (a move that amd is now missing out on).


We don't even know if Intel will allow PCIe 4.0 on z490 let alone a new(er) gen CPU with native PCIe 4.0 on it. Having said that (more) options is a good thing, would be interesting if the x6xx MB from AMD will have dual support for DDR4/5 & possibly more than 2 gens of CPU supported.


----------



## TheinsanegamerN (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> It's quite clear those assumptions were not right.
> 
> The socket is being supported, everyone's assumptions are what aren't supported.
> 
> ...


"fact" What fact? AMD is supporting the socket, except it inst if you have the first two generations. That wasnt stated back in 2017. 

Given AMD's history, it was reasonable to assume there would be forwards compatibility for all generations. AM2 motherboards could run AM3 CPUs, hell a few could run AM3+, and AMD didnt even have to promise those. 

If the newest CPUs only support certain chipsets, then pray tell how is this any different then Intel switching sockets every 2 years? If you want to move forward you have to buy a new mobo either way.


----------



## Cybrshrk (May 7, 2020)

logain said:


> Enjoy spending more for that meager performance gain. The cost to get that meager CPU performance gain is enough to move up to a better tier of GPU. B550 pricing shouldn't be much different than B450 pricing, for motherboards. So you could get a 3700x, and a B550 board, for not much more than the cost of the i7 10700k, by itself. Right now you can do a 3700x, and a B450 Tomahawk max, for around $410. The tray pricing, on the i7 10700k is $374, and you still have to buy a cooler.  Factor in the board cost, for the Intel chip, and the cooling to tame such a beast, and you are easily moving up to a higher tier of GPU, which is going to matter far more. Very few people are going out an buying 2080ti's, but I bet if people are left with having to choose between a 2060s and and a 2070s, or a 2070s vs a 2080s due to CPU choice, they are going to rather have that better GPU.
> 
> That is what is so great about Ryzen, now. People have a real choice, after years of just recommending Intel for everything. Until my 3700x, I ran nothing, but Intel, for my main rig, since core 2. Price/peformance is where I shop, and right now, AMD has that crown.


I feel ya and it's why Ive recommended amd for most of my friends the last couple years but it's also why Ill be sticking with Intel. 

I don't want to settle I want what's best and if I'm going to spend that money it's going to be what's the best value as well and my only measurement is gaming performance (it's a gaming pc after all).


----------



## ERazer (May 7, 2020)

Cybrshrk said:


> Sad thing too is I had started actually believing in my recommendation to go ryzen (I didn't in the beginning and is why I canceled my 1800x and left my friend dealing with those issues alone) and I still recommended them for my friend with a 2700x build that took me two days over the phone to get working properly. Now a 3rd friend has taken my advice and went 3700/b450 after my speech about how he will have "support" for upgrade for a while now.
> 
> 
> Oops but again it's my turn to upgrade and Intel has landed the answer just like the last time with the 1800x/7700k launches.



hopefully by your next next upgrade intel got 7nm out


----------



## Cybrshrk (May 7, 2020)

R0H1T said:


> We don't even know if Intel will allow PCIe 4.0 on z490 let alone a new(er) gen CPU with native PCIe 4.0 on it. Having said that (more) options is a good thing, would be interesting if the x6xx MB from AMD will have dual support for DDR4/5 & possibly more than 2 gens of CPU supported.


My chances with Intel are now just as good as going with amd! Lol

That's the whole point its back to the old days of "who knows" and I'm OK with that it just makes my guilt in choosing in not choosing amd even less.


----------



## logain (May 7, 2020)

tfdsaf said:


> If the mobo doesn't support ANY 1st and 2nd gen, how can they support 2nd gen 3200g and 3400g?
> 
> Why they don't support older gen? Probably because everyone whines and cries like little babies if they try to run B550 with a old R5 1600 and its got issues or instability or whatever, everyone readies their pitchforks. AMD would rather not deal with that shit, and have a clean slate, where they can focus on having amazing and stable experience for the 3000 and 4000 series!
> 
> ...



They can do a per sku support. It has been done before, as I mentioned earlier. It might be 2nd gen based, but it is still a 3000 series CPU, which not having support, on B550, is going to do nothing but confuse people, that are not as tech inclined as many here would be. 

This is nothing about entitlement. 

Intel's chipset compatibility is a bs move, on their part, as well. Hate to think of how many threads, that I have seen, on other forums, of non tech savvy people dropping an Intel CPU into their board, that was socket, but not chipset compatible.


----------



## sepheronx (May 7, 2020)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> "fact" What fact? AMD is supporting the socket, except it inst if you have the first two generations. That wasnt stated back in 2017.
> 
> Given AMD's history, it was reasonable to assume there would be forwards compatibility for all generations. AM2 motherboards could run AM3 CPUs, hell a few could run AM3+, and AMD didnt even have to promise those.
> 
> If the newest CPUs only support certain chipsets, then pray tell how is this any different then Intel switching sockets every 2 years? If you want to move forward you have to buy a new mobo either way.



Intel didn't event switch sockets every two years. They have been on 1151 for a while now but switched chipsets instead.   So you can't upgrade from 6xxx series to 7xxx series without a new motherboard.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (May 7, 2020)

Kinda feel bad for recommending the B450 Tomahawk now..... Nothing is ever guaranteed though people should also know that buying older chipsets is always a risk for future compatibility. 3 gens of cpu on 1 platform is still pretty decent  compared to intel where we typically get 2 max. 


Although I must be in the minority because the new motherboards excite me as much as the new cpu's


----------



## Cybrshrk (May 7, 2020)

ERazer said:


> hopefully by you next next upgrade intel got 7nm out


That would be perfect I like to upgrade when it's a serious upgrade (a 7700k did me just fine at 5.0ghz delid for 3 years) and now a 10900k will hopefully be just as good to me. I also like the fact that the motherboards are ACTUALLY coming with real upgrades that I'll actually enjoy having (2.5g ether net is going to be an amazing cheaper alternative to 10g and I'm already set to go with wifi 6.

Not as big a deal but my board didn't even have a-rgb just the old style and now I'll have that too. 

My rig isn't just some box it's a bit of a show piece for my work and rgb sells.


----------



## logain (May 7, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> Intel didn't event switch sockets every two years. They have been on 1151 for a while now but switched chipsets instead.   So you can't upgrade from 6xxx series to 7xxx series without a new motherboard.



Yea reminds me of the LGA 775 days. New CPU, new chipset, same socket.


----------



## HD64G (May 7, 2020)

ShurikN said:


> The slide says Ryzen 3000 not supported on X370, but if I recall correctly, a lot of X370 boards support 3rd gen Ryzen. I wouldn't be surprised if board vendors give X470/B450 support for 4th gen Ryzen.


Exactly! The best selling and made B450, X470 boards will get BIOS for Zen3 CPUs. My 5c.


----------



## windwhirl (May 7, 2020)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> If you're not going to support forward compatibility, why bother using the same socket?



The thing about it is that keeping the same socket allows for some "mobility", so to speak, between CPUs and mobos from different generations:

You could use Zen1 with a 300 series board or 400 series board. Both series also allowed you to use Zen 1 or Zen+ CPUs while at least most of them (the full 400 series and a range of 300 series boards) support Zen 2. X570 supports both Zen+ and Zen 2, and now we know that Zen 3 will be supported too, while keeping the same socket.

Regarding 300 and 400 series being not officially supported for Zen 3, one could argue that everyone should have seen it coming after the woes to support Zen 2 on 300 series chipsets, but the problem in my opinion lies mostly in AMD's communication. AMD should have said "hey, we are supporting AM4 through 2020, but older chipsets may not be supported as newer processor microarchitectures come out"


----------



## sepheronx (May 7, 2020)

I watch techyes and I recall seeing an A320 Mobo running a ryzen 3500x which if I recall as well it wasn't officially supported at first.  I know this can ruffle some feathers and seeing some of the overreaction going on; it has. But I wouldn't jump the gun just yet.  I'll wait and see. I myself was waiting for B550 anyway but I'll wait and see.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> "fact" What fact? AMD is supporting the socket, except it inst if you have the first two generations. That wasnt stated back in 2017.
> 
> Given AMD's history, it was reasonable to assume there would be forwards compatibility for all generations. AM2 motherboards could run AM3 CPUs, hell a few could run AM3+, and AMD didnt even have to promise those.
> 
> If the newest CPUs only support certain chipsets, then pray tell how is this any different then Intel switching sockets every 2 years? If you want to move forward you have to buy a new mobo either way.


So when one came out they stated the socket would be supported through 2020.

That's all she wrote back then.

You can assume what you want that doesn't mean AMD said or that your right.

Every two year's, that's not always the case though it is at the moment. 

AMD legit did three, one better.

And it's more the case that the OEM decided support by their initial part selection.

They picked it will do for now style small ROMs, it was there choice.

With Ryzen 4000 not out yet who knows what has changed.


So in 2017 they should have had the next four years mapped out, knowing Intel's every move and counter, had a plan and pre designed generations of chip's, cool story bro but it doesn't align well with competitively producing generational improvement or countering an opponent company in any way.


----------



## dyonoctis (May 7, 2020)

Even AMD partners (XMG) are confused by this move :





edit: mmhhh. blame the small bios memory ?








						The Exciting Future of AMD Socket AM4
					

In 2016, we made a pretty bold commitment to you: we would continue to support AMD Socket AM4 until 2020. It was a big promise, especially given what people were accustomed to with other platforms. In the four ensuing years, the humble Socket AM4 has been on an incredible trajectory:   4X more...




					community.amd.com


----------



## trparky (May 7, 2020)

btarunr said:


> AMD disclosed that its upcoming "Zen 3" 4th generation Ryzen desktop processors will only support AMD 500-series (or later) chipsets.


Wait. What?!?!


----------



## dyonoctis (May 7, 2020)

trparky said:


> Wait. What?!?!


Apparently the bios chips aren't large enough to store data about every single cpu


----------



## bencrutz (May 7, 2020)

ShurikN said:


> The slide says Ryzen 3000 not supported on X370, but if I recall correctly, a lot of X370 boards support 3rd gen Ryzen. I wouldn't be surprised if board vendors give X470/B450 support for 4th gen Ryzen.



yep, running a 3950X on X370 taichi here.....


----------



## trparky (May 7, 2020)

Yeah, but they could have at least allowed for the X470 boards by making it so that the X470 boards dropped support for 1000 and 2000 series chips while gaining support for 4000 series chips.


----------



## ilyon (May 7, 2020)

Wait and see.

According to this slide, no support of Ryzen 3000 on AMD 300 series motherboards.


----------



## ensabrenoir (May 7, 2020)

....good thing i only paid $50 for my Asus Rog Strix B450-F gaming.  Bought it new off someone who couldn't finish their planned build.  Looking to do the same again on this upcoming generation.


----------



## dyonoctis (May 7, 2020)

trparky said:


> Yeah, but they could have at least allowed for the X470 boards by making it so that the X470 boards dropped support for 1000 and 2000 series chips while gaining support for 4000 series chips.


The only reason that i could think of is that they wanted to avoid horror stories about people constantly uppgrading their uefi, and then wonder why their system doesn't post anymore...


----------



## milewski1015 (May 7, 2020)

Can see why people feel cheated since AMD stated the AM4 socket would be supported through 2020, but I don't recall them ever mentioning anything about chipset forward compatibility. Does seem kind of silly to keep the same socket if the chipset won't be forward compatible though. Was thinking of picking up an X570 Tomahawk Wifi once that's released (or maybe a B550 board depending on how their reviews are) to replace my B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC anyway.


----------



## trparky (May 7, 2020)

milewski1015 said:


> Can see why people feel cheated since AMD stated the AM4 socket would be supported through 2020, but I don't recall them ever mentioning anything about chipset forward compatibility.


Sounds like AMD was speaking out of both sides of their mouth.


----------



## djisas (May 7, 2020)

Good thing I didn't cheapen on my mobo when everyone was crying to get a B450, I knew from the start i would be running into upgrade issues...
Though a 100€ mobo would be very limiting anyway...


----------



## AnarchoPrimitiv (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> I guess people that have invested in an X470/B450 motherboard are going to be pissed off that they can't use a Ryzen 4000 CPU in their boards...
> 
> Shame the CPU uplink isn't PCIe 4.0.



I have an X470 with a 2700x and plan on upgrading to Ryzen 4000, and even if I could put a Ryzen 4000 CPU in my X470 board, it'd be a waste as I'd be denying myself most of the newest features.  I'm not disappointed at all.



lynx29 said:


> Luckily I am in the refund window still thanks to extensions. I will be refunding my tomahawk max now and waiting for B550, wow this is a shitty move, everyone told me it was a safe move to go from 3600 to 4800x on tomahawk max b450.
> 
> I have a half a mind to sell my ryzen 3600 cpu now and just go back to intel and z490 since its about to come out, if I have to buy a new mobo every two generations might as well go with Intel, and Navi drivers are a disappointment, so might as well stick with tried and true Intel and Nvidia combo yet again. so long AMD you had a good run




Anyone else think this guy is just an Intel Fanboy lying about owning a B450 motherboard?  Yeah, sure, go back to intel to gain absolutely nothing AND lose better IPC...go ahead and cut your nose off to spite your own face....maybe he's not a fanboy, but I find it exceptionally weird and peculiar, that anyone would return a SUPERIOR platform and CPU to return to an inferior one, all because AMD isn't letting a motherboard support four generations of CPUs and just three, which BTW, is still way better than intel....so it just sounds completely disingenuous that someone would go from a superior platform on all metrics to an inferior one, over a single issue in which AMD is STILL better than intel....that makes absolutely no sense.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

trparky said:


> Sounds like AMD was speaking out of both sides of their mouth.


Did you receive a full report from Intel in 2017 about what their socket support was or for what chips were due out?, No.

Neither did AMD they cannot compete with Intel's present evolved strategy and retain support for a board without all the hardware to support the chip anyway.

X370/470 simply doesn't fully support the third generation , IMHO it's fair enough that technology has evolved beyond them, I want that.


----------



## Metroid (May 7, 2020)

Well i guess it could not be helped given the size of the bios of the older boards, my msi b450 gaming plus hit the bios size limit with ryzen 3xxx, I fully understand why my board cant support newer not yet released cpus but given some boards have enough room for that magic upgrade where bios size is not an issue, amd let them down. I think AMD should have given the choice to board partners whether or not they decide to support 4xxx in their old boards.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

windwhirl said:


> That aside, how much more expensive would it be for a consumer if motherboard makers used 256 Mbit ROMs? I think someone said it was like just an extra dollar per board to switch from 128 to 256Mbit per ROM chip...


Less than that in the kind of quantity we're talking about. However, when you make a million plus boards, that's a million plus dollars in your pocket...



IceShroom said:


> If the MB maker put more money on big  ROM chip, they cant put more useless RGB and RGB header on the board. RGB is more usefull than bigger ROM chip.


Headers are virtually free. But yeah, I agree.


----------



## djisas (May 7, 2020)

If bios size is an issue, cant they just make a bios with support for a specific cpu generation saving rom space?


----------



## trparky (May 7, 2020)

You, @AnarchoPrimitiv, might want to retract that statement of @lynx29 being a possible Intel fanboy. I got dinged pretty badly in another thread for saying something similar, I have the warnings to prove it.


----------



## AnarchoPrimitiv (May 7, 2020)

apoklyps3 said:


> now this is an intel like dickmove )



Why is it that everyone treats AMD with a double standard?  Nvidia jacks up prices on RTX, that's ok, but when AMD prices Navi similarly for similar performance, everyone gets hysterical because I guess they have an expectation that AMD, and only AMD, should sell them whatever they want dirt cheap.  Intel has a chipset support a single generation, but then when AMD supports 3 generations with a Chipset, everyone gets hysterical, because I guess they expect AMD, and only AMD, to allow them to use their crappy B350 board forever.



trparky said:


> You, @AnarchoPrimitiv, might want to retract that statement of @lynx29 being a possible Intel fanboy. I got dinged pretty badly in another thread for saying something similar, I have the warnings to prove it.


Dinged?


----------



## Countryside (May 7, 2020)

Bios size is a lame excuse this is plain capitalism.


----------



## trparky (May 7, 2020)

AnarchoPrimitiv said:


> Dinged?


Yeah, the moderators came down on me. Just saying, you might want to retract that statement and not get a possible warning from the moderators.

If you delete your comment, I'll delete mine just so that the moderators don't need to get involved and we all stay happy.


----------



## windwhirl (May 7, 2020)

dyonoctis said:


> The only reason that i could think of is that they wanted to avoid horror stories about people constantly uppgrading their uefi, and then wonder why their system doesn't post anymore...



Last I knew, BIOS/UEFI updates were the absolutely last measure applied to fix or solve an issue, with a giant warning in every step of the process. And if you do that without bothering to read the changelogs, well, that's kinda your fault. Not AMD's.

But yeah, it would be troublesome to clean that up.



TheLostSwede said:


> Less than that in the kind of quantity we're talking about. However, when you make a million plus boards, that's a million plus dollars in your pocket...



I'd say makers would ultimately pass the cost of a bigger ROM chip to the consumers, but they still have to make the money transfer first...


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

dyonoctis said:


> Haha. I don't know why AMD couldn't annouce that sooner. Now we are having lots of knee jerk reaction from people feeling betrayed, and AMD went back to being a trash company with uncompetitive product. The little bit of faith that they painfully managed to get from some people is now gone forever. Ah well, they still managed to shook intel enough to make them react.
> 
> As usual, YMMV, but I never had any stability issues with my b350/1700x with 3000mhz memory. Some people are acting as if they really were interested in AM4, when they seemed to had a preference for Intel all along, and they are now rubbing it in the face of those who prefered AMD. "Now we are the one with an uppgrade path"


Why are you saying that? I'm very happy with my system (once they and Gigabyte worked out all the kinks) and this makes me lose zero faith in AMD. Then again, I'm not normally someone that puts any trust or faith in any technology company, as they're after all, for profit businesses that are in this to make money, not to make their customers feel good.

I don't get the whole preference thing, we're nothing to these corporations, yet we treat them as they're our best friend that either just brought us a keg of cold beer, or just cheated with our girlfriend on us...


----------



## AnarchoPrimitiv (May 7, 2020)

Really?


bencrutz said:


> yep, running a 3950X on X370 taichi here.....


REally?

Just out of curiosity, because I'm honestly curious when people have a configuration like yours, and I absolutely mean no offense, but how is it possible that you could afford a $750 CPU, but then not have $200 for an X570 motherboard (there's X570 boards down to $160)?


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> Count me in among them. I bought a X470 crosshair, and currently have a 2700x, was planning on grabbing a 4900x. When AMD said "we will support AM4 through 2020" everyone assumed, rightly, there would be forwards compatibility. If you're not going to support forward compatibility, why bother using the same socket?
> 
> I've put up with the random issues this board and CPU have with OCs, memory stability, and odd boot times on the promise of the 4900x. Serves me right for thinking AMD would hold up their end of the bargain, and given that Intel is STILL faster in games, might as well go back to intel.


But they are supporting AM4, the socket isn't changing... 
They never specified that future CPUs would work with all boards. This is what you read into that message.
Sure, I agree, they made it sound like you would be able to run a 4th gen Ryzen CPU in an X370 board, but considering the mess with the 3rd gen Ryzen, I didn't have high hopes. 
I guess  you didn't buy that system after X570 and Ryzen 3000 was announced?

Since you don't have any system specs listed, I have no comments to add with regards to your current machine, beyond, did you update to the latest UEFI?


----------



## AnarchoPrimitiv (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Why are you saying that? I'm very happy with my system (once they and Gigabyte worked out all the kinks) and this makes me lose zero faith in AMD. Then again, I'm not normally someone that puts any trust or faith in any technology company, as they're after all, for profit businesses that are in this to make money, not to make their customers feel good.
> 
> I don't get the whole preference thing, we're nothing to these corporations, yet we treat them as they're our best friend that either just brought us a keg of cold beer, or just cheated with our girlfriend on us...



The answer is a phenomenon in psychology called "Social Identity Theory" and "In group/Out Group psychology"....google either one of those alone with "Brand loyalty" and you'll quickly come upon research that explains the seemingly irrational behavior of fanboys with quite rational explanations.


----------



## klf (May 7, 2020)

haha like my x399 and 2990WX-2500 usd  become dead platform after just one year,,, when i complain on that, reddit amd ban me for this and all amd fans say me - " but ist different than new tr40 chipset" .... aaand now when they must eat salt from amd,, they sttart whinning ...


----------



## sepheronx (May 7, 2020)

AnarchoPrimitiv said:


> Really?
> 
> REally?
> 
> Just out of curiosity, because I'm honestly curious when people have a configuration like yours, and I absolutely mean no offense, but how is it possible that you could afford a $750 CPU, but then not have $200 for an X570 motherboard (there's X570 boards down to $160)?


Not him but depends where one is from. Some x570 motherboards just aren't that good (MSI MPG). And maybe some features aren't as important vs cost savings?

I mean, I myself would sell the old board to help pay for new board but not everyone can.  I know cpu is expensive but possible all savings went to it.  All around different situations.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

Cybrshrk said:


> When you're aiming for the most fps and throwing as much gpu as you can you need to cpu to back it up. I don't want to be a 90 fps when I COULD be at 100-110.
> 
> Im just using an example and don't know how close these gpu/cpu combos will get to my goal but it's a hard goal to reach and every bit extra helps.
> 
> And I mean why would I SETTLE for less than when I don't have to?


Ok so best FPS or naught, so why are you here?

Seriously you made an account to comment on b550, it's not even the pre eminent board for Ryzen and despite 22 years in the game it took b550 to Make your mind up that you want Intel to slap your ass more.

Cool story bro , pass me your contact list I'll sort them out  ,you been confused about shit for a while since this whole time you were in doubt while intel had those extra 5-10fps already.

Even the doubt you show about how close the performance is between these platforms screams of noob , read up, none of this shits new especially in Intel's case they been selling the same shit plus plus100mhz for year's.


----------



## Metroid (May 7, 2020)

djisas said:


> If bios size is an issue, cant they just make a bios with support for a specific cpu generation saving rom space?



Yes they can but they wil not do. I think that will fit what customers will want in a future not distant. however, that feature is few years away. Also this free extra not guaranteed support does not help board manufactures, i mean, best b450 boards were being sold for $100, best x570 boards $500 ~ $999, and a comparable good x570 board x best b450 board was around $250. So boards manufactures lost $150 each b450 sold instead of a x570, make that thousands x $150. I guess my point here is at least x570 boards will support 4xxx like b450 supported 3xxx, if i had to wait for a x570 to get to where I live then i would not have bought the r5 3600,  cpus here got a month earlier than x570 boards.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Kinda feel bad for recommending the B450 Tomahawk now..... Nothing is ever guaranteed though people should also know that buying older chipsets is always a risk for future compatibility. 3 gens of cpu on 1 platform is still pretty decent  compared to intel where we typically get 2 max.
> 
> 
> Although I must be in the minority because the new motherboards excite me as much as the new cpu's


Well, at least with AMD, there has been a reason to go from an X370 or X470, to an X570 chipset based board, as there was a lot of new features that came with that upgrade.

With Z490, there's mainly a promise of potentially getting PCIe 4.0 in the future, on some slots, if you upgrade your CPU. The rest isn't really new, apart from the socket that is and the four lanes of PCIe from the CPU for an NVMe drive.

I like drooling over pictures of motherboards too


----------



## ShurikN (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> nah, Z490 is almost here.


By that logic 11th gen and Zen3 are also almost here... why buy something that will be obsolete in 4 months.


----------



## Jism (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> I guess people that have invested in an X470/B450 motherboard are going to be pissed off that they can't use a Ryzen 4000 CPU in their boards...
> 
> Shame the CPU uplink isn't PCIe 4.0.



Sigh. Like a 3950x is already a bottleneck, let alone the use of PCI-E 3.0 vs 4.0. There's not a single graphics card to fully tap 3.0 either. And if it's for NVME storage or so; really there's only a few type of workloads that *could benefit* from more transfer speeds then ever, but it aint much. And in that case PCI-E 3.0 still offers sufficient bandwitdh for any type of day system you need.


----------



## evernessince (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> nah, Z490 is almost here. might as well go with that will get the $169 MSI Z490 board and the $499 Intel 10 core, and hopefully rtx 3080 will be out before cyberpunk 2077 comes out. i really enjoy overlcocking gpu and navi was never able to deliver on that stable, i won't be overclocking cpu so ryzen is still decent, but i might as well go with z490 now that its here. it will be faster in most games i expect, 9900k still beats amd by 5-10 fps across the board. i expect it will be around same here if not a little more.



Please buddy.  You spend 10 posts trashing AMD and now you expect us to believe you are going from a 3600 and a mainstream motherboard to Intel's most expensive processor + Z490.  Makes zero sense. You aren't here to discuss, you are here to troll.  Bugger off.


----------



## windwhirl (May 7, 2020)

djisas said:


> If bios size is an issue, cant they just make a bios with support for a specific cpu generation saving rom space?


I had the same thought, but this is also what came to my mind:


windwhirl said:


> I don't know how much space is needed to support each Ryzen gen. And thinking about it, if Zen 3 really needs a lot of space, it would be a nightmare to have a BIOS version to support Zen & Zen 3 (for upgrading from a Ryzen 1700 on a X470 board to a Ryzen 4700X, for example), another to support Zen+ & Zen3, and another one to support Zen2 and Zen3. And we still haven't taken into account the UI that mobo makers add for the BIOS and some other stuff, I guess.


----------



## ZoneDymo (May 7, 2020)

obi-wan "you were the chosen one" .jpg


----------



## Calmmo (May 7, 2020)

ShurikN said:


> By that logic 11th gen and Zen3 are also almost here... why buy something that will be obsolete in 4 months.



Can't use those with a 10900k barbeque tho. Multitasking master.


----------



## dyonoctis (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Why are you saying that? I'm very happy with my system (once they and Gigabyte worked out all the kinks) and this makes me lose zero faith in AMD. Then again, I'm not normally someone that puts any trust or faith in any technology company, as they're after all, for profit businesses that are in this to make money, not to make their customers feel good.
> 
> I don't get the whole preference thing, we're nothing to these corporations, yet we treat them as they're our best friend that either just brought us a keg of cold beer, or just cheated with our girlfriend on us...


I was just annoyed by the people who currently own a ryzen platform, but instead of waiting and see what zen3 brings, they would rather jump the ship right now and buy a new Intel cpu and a new motherbaord. I don't have much of a brand loyalty, i don't like Nvidia as a company, but I need CUDA, so i'm buying from them anyway. But some of the post on this thread seems to have an agenda, instead of just being a matter of being the better product, or the more reasonnable choice. You want to buy Intel just because of that incident ? okay. But you don't have to talk about how ryzen is an inferior platform (while the issues has been smoothed out) on your way out.


----------



## djisas (May 7, 2020)

Metroid said:


> Yes they can but they wil not do. I think that will fit what customers will want in a future not distant. however, that feature is few years away. Also this free extra not guaranteed support does not help board manufactures, i mean, best b450 boards were being sold for $100, best x570 boards $500 ~ $999, and a comparable good x570 board x best b450 board was around $250. So boards manufactures lost $150 each b450 sold instead of a x570, make that thousands x $150. I guess my point here is at least x570 boards will support 4xxx like b450 supported 3xxx, if i had to wait for a x570 to get to where I live then i would not have bought the r5 3600,  cpus here got a month earlier than x570 boards.



I waited all I could, bought a new GPU thinking I could hold a little longer for Zen 3, but that did not work and after a couple weeks researching mobos and hearing out ppl, B450 was out of question because it was EOL and lacked in features, started by looking at X470, but those where 50€ away from X570, so it was also a no go and also the cheaper X570, the decent one like the TUF was like 270€ so at 300€ seemed like the sweet spot for a future "proof" mobo...

But yeah, only was of mobo manufactures making money is by selling new ones, new bios cost them money...


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

milewski1015 said:


> Can see why people feel cheated since AMD stated the AM4 socket would be supported through 2020, but I don't recall them ever mentioning anything about chipset forward compatibility. Does seem kind of silly to keep the same socket if the chipset won't be forward compatible though. Was thinking of picking up an X570 Tomahawk Wifi once that's released (or maybe a B550 board depending on how their reviews are) to replace my B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC anyway.


I take it you're not involved in product manufacturing? The fact that the current stock of a part, which has come down in price by a significant level over multiple years, due to high volume demand, means that the board makers can make more margin per product. It's not as if they're going to complain if they can continue to use the same parts, especially if they happen to have a few still in stock.


----------



## Metroid (May 7, 2020)

djisas said:


> new bios cost them money...



Yes, first like you said they will lose sale of new boards and second, they need programmers to work out on the bios code and that takes a lot of time before they deploy those bios for use and imagine how many boards they have and going each one and upgrade it, reason Intel doesn't want to be bothered about it any more hehe


----------



## apoklyps3 (May 7, 2020)

AnarchoPrimitiv said:


> Why is it that everyone treats AMD with a double standard?  Nvidia jacks up prices on RTX, that's ok, but when AMD prices Navi similarly for similar performance, everyone gets hysterical because I guess they have an expectation that AMD, and only AMD, should sell them whatever they want dirt cheap.  Intel has a chipset support a single generation, but then when AMD supports 3 generations with a Chipset, everyone gets hysterical, because I guess they expect AMD, and only AMD, to allow them to use their crappy B350 board forever.
> 
> 
> Dinged?


why?
because X570 super expensive and I have waited 1 year for B550 until I finally gave up and got a B450 and paired with a 3700x. While B550 is nothing more than a X470 with limited PCIe 4.0 support, now I'm locked from upgrading to 4000 series when it comes out.
It's a dickmove, just like disabling PCIe 4.0 on older boards was.
AMD can't afford dickmoves...they just recently got on top. that's not the way to stay there


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

djisas said:


> If bios size is an issue, cant they just make a bios with support for a specific cpu generation saving rom space?


In theory, yes. However, it takes time to make these things and even more so, test them. As such, it's something I can't see the board makers being willing to do, unless there's a really good reason for them to do so. I mean, after all, they've already sold the product to you and would rather sell you another, than continuing adding support for new CPUs to an old board. This is capitalism for you.


----------



## apoklyps3 (May 7, 2020)

Cybrshrk said:


> Yes I'll take my dicking from the front and not behind my back also take it with reliable/stable system operation and the fastest gaming performance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah nobody cares about your "I'll pay million if intel asks it for the lowest end celeron, just because Intel is intel fanboyism".
grow up. it's 2020
on the other hand I get why all of you intel fanboys are stuck in the past...you're on par with their manufacturing process


----------



## Camm (May 7, 2020)

Whilst I'm only disappointed, not angry at the 4000 incompatibility announcement, I think it is time however to be angry at the shitty situation of Ryzen APU's.

A gen behind, but tagged with the current generation part number. Release your damn APU's along with the actual CPU architecture they go with.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

Jism said:


> Sigh. Like a 3950x is already a bottleneck, let alone the use of PCI-E 3.0 vs 4.0. There's not a single graphics card to fully tap 3.0 either. And if it's for NVME storage or so; really there's only a few type of workloads that *could benefit* from more transfer speeds then ever, but it aint much. And in that case PCI-E 3.0 still offers sufficient bandwitdh for any type of day system you need.


I think you misread what I wrote. The uplink between the CPU and chipset. As the chipset has more PCIe 3.0 lanes than the uplink, plus SATA, USB 3.x etc.
As with most chipsets, this is the bottle neck and although it doesn't effect most people in a daily usage scenario, it's a bottleneck regardless. 
Same issue for Intel and their chipset interconnect as well, so nothing unique to AMD.
Not asking for the B550 chipset to support PCIe 4.0 for it's PCIe lanes, the X570 already does that.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 7, 2020)

milewski1015 said:


> Can see why people feel cheated since AMD stated the AM4 socket would be supported through 2020



They don't, you're just seeing dormant fanboys and trolls, ironically this is controversial because of the insane number of incompatible sockets/chipsets Intel released over the years, not AMD. You know times are rough when you end up complaining of something your favorite company did relentlessly for a decade .

AMD promised interoperability between chipsets and CPUs and that the socket wont change for 4 years. Let's see, first gen Ryzen was released back in 2017 now we're mid 2020, that's about ... 4 years. For the most parts with a couple of issues here and there they've kept their promise. If you've bought into the AM4 platform back then you still have so many options for an upgrade now that it makes any platform Intel ever released a laughing stock. I mean you _could _go from a 4c/4t to a 16c/32t CPU with more IPC and clock speed if you really wanted, that's crazy.



trparky said:


> You, @AnarchoPrimitiv, might want to retract that statement of @lynx29 being a possible Intel fanboy.



That guy has been spamming forums about why he's going for Intel/AMD for as long as I remember seeing him on here. That's basically all he posts about.


----------



## midnightoil (May 7, 2020)

Two  things.

1)  You will be able to use Ryzen 4xxx on 4xx and 3xx, if your motherboard vendor supports it .... AMD won't support it.  The motherboard vendors would not thank AMD for *forcing* them to fully support and update BIOS on all 1st gen motherboards for a 4th gen CPU, and they couldn't force them to anyway.

It's exactly the same as the A320, B350 and X370 boards that support Ryzen 3xxx (virtually all of them). AMD don't support it, and the motherboard vendors don't support them as much as the newer boards, but it works fine.

2)  There has never been X670.  This has been common knowledge since June of last year.

P.S.  The staff at this site, every other PC News site, and all the tech YouTube channels all know this.  But they're not telling you because clickbait.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

apoklyps3 said:


> why?
> because X570 super expensive and I have waited 1 year for B550 until I finally gave up and got a B450 and paired with a 3700x. While B550 is nothing more than a X470 with limited PCIe 4.0 support, now I'm locked from upgrading to 4000 series when it comes out.
> It's a dickmove, just like disabling PCIe 4.0 on older boards was.
> AMD can't afford dickmoves...they just recently got on top. that's not the way to stay there


Disabling? I don't think you understand what went on. I have explained this before.
To adhere to the PCI Express specification, products have to be certified. Without certification, you can't claim compatibility.
Some older boards were nearly good enough to be certified for PCIe 4.0, but sadly they didn't pass the certification requirements and you can't support a standard to 98% and pass certification. What mad the matters worse, is that most boards were nowhere near passing the certification tests. So in as much as AMD hadn't disabled PCIe 4.0 operation in the AGESA, they never explicitly 1. told the board makers to implement it and 2. that it would be a guaranteed feature. 
In the end, they decided it couldn't happen, as the X470 and B450 boards weren't made to such a level that they could pass the certification requirements.


----------



## evernessince (May 7, 2020)

People saying this is the end of AMD, obvious trolls are obvious.

This should go without saying but it is highly likely that motherboard vendors add support for these new processors on older motherboards.  After all the exact same thing happen when the 3000 series released.  Both B350 and X370 motherboards for the most part received 3000 series support despite not being mandated by AMD.


----------



## 1d10t (May 7, 2020)

Here's hoping i can keep another Gen for my B450 
Okay then, just give me a goddamn good mATX boards already! I'm stuck with crappy Galax in here!


----------



## gamefoo21 (May 7, 2020)

I saw this coming with how 300 series boards were basically mothballed for Zen 2.

If I bought a B450/X470 recently, I'd be livid.

Chipsets are only getting 2 generations of support... AMD doing Intel things.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

1d10t said:


> Here's hoping i can keep another Gen for my B450
> Okay then, just give me a goddamn good mATX boards already! I'm stuck with crappy Galax in here!


Well, Biostar is ready and waiting for your cash...








						Assortment of Five AMD B550 Premium Motherboards Pictured
					

Here are the first pictures of an assortment of five premium AMD B550 chipset motherboards by five different manufacturers. With PCI-Express gen 4.0 (where it matters), CPU+memory overclocking, and multi-GPU being enabled for the B550, and more importantly, the chipset not needing any...




					www.techpowerup.com
				






gamefoo21 said:


> I saw this coming with how 300 series boards were basically mothballed for Zen 2.
> 
> If I bought a B450/X470 recently, I'd be livid.
> 
> Chipsets are only getting 2 generations of support... AMD doing Intel things.


What's the point of being livid? Technology moves forward, new stuff comes out, it's only with PCs you can upgrade at all.
What if you'd bought a new phone and two weeks later, a new model is announced. Would you be livid then too?


----------



## IceShroom (May 7, 2020)

apoklyps3 said:


> why?
> because X570 super expensive and I have waited 1 year for B550 until I finally gave up and got a B450 and paired with a 3700x. While B550 is nothing more than a X470 with limited PCIe 4.0 support, now I'm locked from upgrading to 4000 series when it comes out.
> It's a dickmove, just like disabling PCIe 4.0 on older boards was.
> AMD can't afford dickmoves...they just recently got on top. that's not the way to stay there


B550 is not X470 rebadge. X470/X370/B450/B350 do not support PCI-e 3 from chipset , but B550 does.
Edit : Also more PCI-e lane than the previous chipset.


----------



## ObiFrost (May 7, 2020)

Not sure why is everyone astonished. AMD clearly said compatability support until "2020", that's between 2019-01-01 and 2019-12-31.


----------



## gamefoo21 (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Well, Biostar is ready and waiting for your cash...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Livid being AMD has been dead silent, while saying AM4 was getting at least Zen 3. The reviewers, YouTubers, and sites all suggested B450 for value builds because of upgrade path.

AMD did worse than Intel.

I agree that tech moves forward but AMD basically lied to consumers, IMHO.


----------



## trparky (May 7, 2020)

Alright, I'm stepping away from this thread. It might as well be nuclear waste at this point. I don't need any more warnings, three is enough for me. I made my suggestions to stop with things that might cause moderators to come down on all of us but I guess nobody heeded my warning.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

gamefoo21 said:


> Livid being AMD has been dead silent, while saying AM4 was getting at least Zen 3. The reviewers, YouTubers, and sites all suggested B450 for value builds because of upgrade path.
> 
> AMD did worse than Intel.
> 
> I agree that tech moves forward but AMD basically lied to consumers, IMHO.


Tell me, how many companies out there pre-announce products? Did Apple tell their customer base that they were moving all USB-C/Thunderbolt before they announced the products?

AMD NEVER said that, they said they would support AM4 into 2020. Whatever we read into that, is our own fault if anything.
What is being suggested by random people on the internet, can't be blamed on AMD.  

How did AMD do worse than Intel? Intel doesn't tell you that they're going to change socket before a product announcement either.
Leaks and rumours don't count.

And no, AMD didn't lie, they are continuing to use the same socket. You forget that when they have announcements, it's for their industry partners, not you and me as consumers.

On top of that, you have an X570 board, so what are you crying about? None of this will affect you.


----------



## 1d10t (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Well, Biostar is ready and waiting for your cash...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think I'll pass, Biostar never uses top tier sound chip and never give 6 USB type A either in their mid range 



gamefoo21 said:


> I saw this coming with how 300 series boards were basically mothballed for Zen 2.
> If I bought a B450/X470 recently, I'd be livid.
> Chipsets are only getting 2 generations of support... AMD doing Intel things.



I recently switched to MSI B450M Mortar MAX from my previous Gigabyte X370 Gaming K5, at first glance I see this news like a betrayal, but then I remembered there was no word from AMD that they keeping "chipset" until X timeframe, they only said retain AM4 until 2020. I guess I'm just hang my expectation too high


----------



## chstamos (May 7, 2020)

A large part of Ryzen's appeal was having a larger range of updates than intel CPUs. So congrats AMD for ruining that. Don't get me wrong, Ryzens are still great CPUs, but there are a lot of use cases where someone who might otherwise go AMD for a new setup now has significantly less reason to do so. I'm already burned, having bought a X470 only one month ago. My girlfriend's next PC upgrade will probably be intel. Save ourselves the annoyance of those endless ram compatibility lists too.


----------



## gamefoo21 (May 7, 2020)

ObiFrost said:


> Not sure why is everyone astonished. AMD clearly said compatability support until "2020", that's between 2019-01-01 and 2019-12-31.



AMD's reasoning is


TheLostSwede said:


> Tell me, how many companies out there pre-announce products? Did Apple tell their customer base that they were moving all USB-C/Thunderbolt before they announced the products?
> 
> AMD NEVER said that, they said they would support AM4 into 2020. Whatever we read into that, is our own fault if anything.
> What is being suggested by random people on the internet, can't be blamed on AMD.
> ...



*Sigh*

I know better, you'll defend AMD until your dying breath.

AMD's excuse is bios size... Uhhh... What? It's called monetary gains.

They did a shitty thing, and yes they should have said something rather than just gagging the outlets, so they all look like shit for recommending a dead end build yesterday.

Your phone analogy is flawed, a PC is a PC because it's flexible and upgradable. AMD has been honking about support, about one socket, and hell they left it up to the manufacturer's to add Zen 2 to 300 series boards, which many did. There was no previous hint that AMD was going to pull a bios locked upgrade path.

If they stalled the B550 because of this, that's even worse. They basically left dead end products on the market to run out the clock on the 2020 support thing. That's callous. The other option is they can't keep the gen 4 lock out in place on the 400 series because of B550, so they just scrapped support.

It's likely a combination of greed and stupidity.

AMD did bad, and they should be called out on it.  I defended them for the 5600XT launch, but this is not cool. The situation with the APUs is also a going to be a bloody mess.


----------



## ensabrenoir (May 7, 2020)

...digital pitchforks. Tar and feathers......come and get your digital pitchforks,  tar and feathers.... $10 a person lowest price on the internet!!!!  I upgrade at random  so.....I'll be getting  the new platform anyway.    AMD will eventually  go all dark side  and join the Sith and whatever but till then their prices are still a bit better than intel. Till then I'll just enjoy the new tech.


----------



## Patriot (May 7, 2020)

ObiFrost said:


> Not sure why is everyone astonished. AMD clearly said compatability support until "2020", that's between 2019-01-01 and 2019-12-31.



They have said through many times in the past, not until, but they have always said AM4 not a specific chipset.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

gamefoo21 said:


> AMD's reasoning is
> 
> 
> *Sigh*
> ...


I'm not defending anyone. I'm asking you, how many companies pre-announce products so consumers don't buy their older products? NONE.

I agree, the flash size excuse is a bit lame. Yes, it's a limitation, but it seems like AMD should figure out how to refine its AGESA code at the same time, since that seems to be the bulk of the problem. 

I highly doubt AMD gagged anyone, they don't have that kind of clout. Please don't make up silly things like that.

AMD didn't do anything. They did what all profit seeking companies do, they made a new product. That the new product doesn't meet your standards, isn't their fault. The fact that are used to being upgrade computers shouldn't be taken for granted. Look at what Intel wants us to buy with their NUC ecosystem. Those are not upgradable at all. We live in a throw-away capitalism world, so that anyone is surprised that at some point, they have to buy new parts to upgrade their PC, really baffles me.


----------



## Dave65 (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> just set up my refund for my b450 tomahawk max, will be going z490 and intel 10 core, and ampere. fk it



Yeah Intel would never do this right?


----------



## freeagent (May 7, 2020)

Wow you AMD users were lucky enough to keep your board for two or three cpu generations, and now you are getting upset because you need to buy a new board? Way to sound like an Intel user lol. 

I kid, sort of. It was a good run!


----------



## Camm (May 7, 2020)

gamefoo21 said:


> AMD's excuse is bios size... Uhhh... What? It's called monetary gains.



It should be noted that AMD might not even be the culprit here, both Gigabyte & MSI had issues even updating support for 2nd and 3rd gen Ryzen chips due to the smaller size UEFI chips they used on some boards. 

Still, two-three generations of support on older motherboards is pretty good considering the amount of single generation chipsets we've had from Intel.


----------



## Fouquin (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> first gen ryzen couldn't keep ram stable for it's life. so not really, 2 generations if we talking stable performance.



My launch day 1600X just turned 3 years old and has been running 3300MHz CL16 since day zero.


----------



## windwhirl (May 7, 2020)

ensabrenoir said:


> AMD will eventually  go all dark side  and join the Sith



With all that red marketing, we should have seen the signs? LOL

Also, a lot of people trash/trashed AMD for power consumption, but that's just because Force lightning is really taxing.


----------



## R-T-B (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> first gen ryzen couldn't keep ram stable for it's life. so not really, 2 generations if we talking stable performance.



I mean it's still a generation like it or not.  And FWIW, my Ryzen 1800X was able to run Samsung b-die at 3200Mhz quad kit no problem.

It was picky with ram, but when it worked, it worked well.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2020)

got my z490 mobo pre-ordered. take care AMD, I won't miss your Navi drivers that's for sure. hopefully Ampere is the big powerhouse I expect it to be, all I care about is FPS not brand loyalty.



Dave65 said:


> Yeah Intel would never do this right?



all I care about is max fps. intel and nvidia still wins.


----------



## djisas (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> got my z490 mobo pre-ordered. take care AMD, I won't miss your Navi drivers that's for sure. hopefully Ampere is the big powerhouse I expect it to be, all I care about is FPS not brand loyalty.
> 
> 
> 
> all I care about is max fps. intel and nvidia still wins.



Good luck spending 500€ for 10fps...


----------



## Camm (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> got my z490 mobo pre-ordered. take care AMD, I won't miss your Navi drivers that's for sure. hopefully Ampere is the big powerhouse I expect it to be, all I care about is FPS not brand loyalty.
> 
> 
> 
> all I care about is max fps. intel and nvidia still wins.



You know, I find it highly improbable that someone who had a low end board ordered suddenly raged and returned the board to go for the absolute high end of a competitors product..... lol.


----------



## 1d10t (May 7, 2020)

Nah..let him be.He just another justifiable buyer, sees anything from his own optics 
Seriously, max fps, in 60Hz monitor ? Yeah highest graph is more readable than lower graph such as minimum or low percentage


----------



## Assimilator (May 7, 2020)

Pretty glad I went for a second-hand X370 board when I was building a Ryzen system at Christmas. Got a Crosshair VI Hero, which is packed to the brim with features and overclocks better than many "premium" X570 boards, for 2/3 of what the cheapest brand new X570 board was going for. Only thing it's missing is an extra M.2 slot - a cheap Chinese add-in card solved that, and is usable on any system I build going forward, to boot.

This is a bit of a dick move from AMD, but it's almost certainly a response to Intel's continuing failure to provide any sort of competition to Zen. As an enthusiast I can't say that I like it, but I understand it from a financial viewpoint.


----------



## Fouquin (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> got my z490 mobo pre-ordered. take care AMD, I won't miss your Navi drivers that's for sure. hopefully Ampere is the big powerhouse I expect it to be, all I care about is FPS not brand loyalty.
> 
> 
> 
> all I care about is max fps. intel and nvidia still wins.



You flip flop between upgrades faster than the transistors in these chips. This has to be the third or fourth time I've seen you in a thread shunning something that you spent months hyping up.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

gamefoo21 said:


> Livid being AMD has been dead silent, while saying AM4 was getting at least Zen 3. The reviewers, YouTubers, and sites all suggested B450 for value builds because of upgrade path.
> 
> AMD did worse than Intel.
> 
> I agree that tech moves forward but AMD basically lied to consumers, IMHO.


Lied, show proof AMD said any of the sort.


While you're at it find a review that says get b450 for the upgrade path I recall none using that argument.

Then while you're at it slap yourself and re read what you wrote which in part is true except the who.

SOME people said not AMD...   ...

Learn a lesson about hearsay and rumours.

@lynx29 grow up , run off buy what you want and crack on with it, AMD and not a single reader of your drivel(I'm certain) gives the slightest shit what you want, or me.

Kin AMD n intel the shit bastard's I wanted 64 cores and more importantly 64 pciex4 lanes for mainstream money.

Thankfully due to the war (processor)that might now happen , sure as f### not because of intel though.

Roll on 2023.


----------



## Turmania (May 7, 2020)

AMD will get away with it, from it`s fanboys.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

Turmania said:


> AMD will get away with it, from it`s fanboys.


Get away with what exactly? If you're going to make accusations, at least spell them out.


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Get away with what exactly? If you're going to make accusations, at least spell them out.



The fact they promised "support until 2021" what does this mean to you? Supporting a socket means nothing if you some AM4 chipsets don't support part of the CPUs that come out for it.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 7, 2020)

gamefoo21 said:


> AMD did worse than Intel.



Let me get this straight, you think AMD is worse because some youtuber and whoever else recommend people to buy something in particular ? Or are they worse because they supported more CPUs than any other platform Intel ever had ? Sorry, I can't figure it out.

You know what, buy from Intel then and never touch anything made by AMD if you think that. No matter what will happen people will always come up with the most bewildering explanations on why a brand is worse or better. Just pick your favorite color buddy and sparse us this nonsense, you don't need to explain yourself at the end of the day for anything.

If you like to pay extra for the privilege to get ripped off the most from a particular company, knock yourself out.



Camm said:


> You know, I find it highly improbable that someone who had a low end board ordered suddenly raged and returned the board to go for the absolute high end of a competitors product..... lol.



He's a troll at best or suffers from cognitive dissonance at worst, spends most of this time on this forum going back and forth why Intel/AMD/Nvidia is dead or the best.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

oxidized said:


> The fact they promised "support until 2021" what does this mean to you? Supporting a socket means nothing if you don't support part of the CPUs that come out for it.


Has a single one of you neg's got the slightest bit of proof of what you allege AMD said , I was listening I heard none of that please do show?.

@Turmania dangerous word that usually weilded by one and often like with you, f all facts just vitreal.

Were 7 pages deep mostly on irrelevant shit that's nowt to do with b550 , time for facts proof and some to stop trolling and start backing up their BS.


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Has a single one of you neg's got the slightest bit of proof of what you allege AMD said , I was listening I heard none of that please do show?.
> 
> @Turmania dangerous word that usually weilded by one and often like with you, f all facts just vitreal.
> 
> Were 7 pages deep mostly on irrelevant shit that's nowt to do with b550 , time for facts proof and some to stop trolling and start backing up their BS.



They promised support of the AM4 socket until 2021, maybe they never said specifically that every CPU gen would be supported on every Chipset gen, but they also never denied that, and again as i said, saying you're "supporting AM4 socket until 2021" means nothing if not what everyone understood initially, stop defending at all costs your favorite brand.

This deserves as much bashing as intel for their stuff.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

oxidized said:


> They promised support of the AM4 socket until 2021, maybe they never said specifically that every CPU gen would be supported on every Chipset gen, but they also never denied that, and again as i said, saying you're "supporting AM4 socket until 2021" means nothing if not what everyone understood initially, stop defending at all costs your favorite brand.
> 
> This deserves as much bashing as intel for their stuff.


Maybe you specifically have proof??

Do show

It costs f all I'm bored cos of Rona but tbf I'm getting more bored with they said!

Should we all join in berating even if a we as an engineer understand the why, no mate.


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Maybe you specifically have proof??
> 
> Do show



Are you for real, they've stated that multiple times, recently changed that to 2020, which changes nothing honestly.

And they stated this even today.






						The Exciting Future of AMD Socket AM4
					

In 2016, we made a pretty bold commitment to you: we would continue to support AMD Socket AM4 until 2020. It was a big promise, especially given what people were accustomed to with other platforms. In the four ensuing years, the humble Socket AM4 has been on an incredible trajectory:   4X more...




					community.amd.com
				










This here is a recent slide, it says 2021.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

oxidized said:


> Are you for real, they've stated that multiple times, recently changed that to 2020, which changes nothing honestly.
> 
> And they stated this even today.
> 
> ...


Of course you realise that says 2020!

You can't find 2021 cos it's in your head.

And points out exactly what this says 550/570/ only for zen3.

And say's why.


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Of course you realise that says 2020!
> 
> You can't find 2021 cos it's in your head.
> 
> ...



It changes nothing because 4000 series is going to be on AM4 too

And touting support of a socket means nothing if you don't intend to support most of AM4 CPUs on most Chipsets gens, and that's people understood indeed, that's why many are so pissed right now.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

oxidized said:


> No it changes nothing because 4000 series is going to be on AM4 too


With different features and chipset, features older board's already do Not support but the same socket.
Ffs how many incompatible 1151 board types have intel released, I have a b250 I know.
They never said either btw.

As for that slide you made coal out of beans on toast it says nothing of the sort and if you got full backwards support from that you need help dealing with information.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

oxidized said:


> The fact they promised "support until 2021" what does this mean to you? Supporting a socket means nothing if you don't support part of the CPUs that come out for it.


They promised AM4 support, what that means, they never explained and clearly no-one asked the question either, until now and all of a sudden, everyone's shocked. Again, AMD doesn't address you and me, it addresses its customers when it makes these announcements, so just because some people thought it meant something, it doesn't mean that's what AMD meant.


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> With different features and chipset, features older board's already do Not support but the same socket.
> Ffs how many incompatible 1151 board types have intel released, I have a b250 I know.
> They never said either btw.



And there we go! Let's talk about intel now shall we?



TheLostSwede said:


> They promised AM4 support, what that means, they never explained and clearly no-one asked the question either, until now and all of a sudden, everyone's shocked. Again, AMD doesn't address you and me, it addresses its customers when it makes these announcements, so just because some people thought it meant something, it doesn't mean that's what AMD meant.



Support AM4 to do what if not support most CPUs on most Chipsets? Cmon guys you're really trying your hardest here, stop that honestly, this move was sh** if confirmed, just as shit as intel's, with the aggravating component which is touted support of AM4 until 2021 or 2020, which changes nothing.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

oxidized said:


> Support AM4 to do what if not support most CPUs on most Chipsets? Cmon guys you're really trying your hardest here, stop that honestly, this move was sh** if confirmed, just as shit as intel's, with the aggravating component which is touted support of AM4 until 2021 or 2020, which changes nothing.


Please read my previous response to the same question earlier in this thread, as I'm not writing that again.


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Please read my previous response to the same question earlier in this thread, as I'm not writing that again.



I read it good the first time, it's not a response, so wait let me rephrase my question. Why tout about AM4 support until 2020(2021) when you plan on forcing old customers to buy another motherboard anyway? I mean in the end whether i buy a new mobo because the old one has a chipset doesn't support the CPU i want to buy, or because the old one has a socket which doesn't support the CPU i want to buy, i'm still forced to buy another motherboard, so again what was the goal of touting about supporting AM4 socket until 2021 if in the end many will have to buy a new motherboard anyway?


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2020)

djisas said:


> Good luck spending 500€ for 10fps...



huh? MSI Z490 mobo I just pre-ordered is $169.99 and the CPU will be around $400-500 which various version I get, hoping the non-integrated graphics variant is a touch cheaper.



TheLostSwede said:


> They promised AM4 support, what that means, they never explained and clearly no-one asked the question either, until now and all of a sudden, everyone's shocked. Again, AMD doesn't address you and me, it addresses its customers when it makes these announcements, so just because some people thought it meant something, it doesn't mean that's what AMD meant.



that's shady as crap wording. lol  intel and amd are the same, there is no point in brand loyalty its capitalism.  neither of these companies care about you. so im picking the best performance for only 5% more money. later homies.


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> that's shady as crap wording. lol  intel and amd are the same, there is no point in brand loyalty its capitalism.  neither of these companies care about you. so im picking the best performance for only 5% more money. later homies.



This, this and this


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

oxidized said:


> I read it good the first time, it's not a response, so wait let me rephrase my question. Why tout about AM4 support until 2020(2021) when you plan on forcing old customers to buy another motherboard anyway? I mean in the end whether i buy a new mobo because the old one has a chipset doesn't support the CPU i want to buy, or because the old one has a socket which doesn't support the CPU i want to buy, i'm still forced to buy another motherboard, so again what was the goal of touting about supporting AM4 socket until 2021 if in the end many will have to buy a new motherboard anyway?


Maybe you read it, but you clearly didn't understand it. The support isn't for you or me, it's for the board makers and their parts suppliers. Know that they have four or five generations of products using the same socket, means that they can plan far ahead in the future and place orders accordingly. That matters a lot when you run a business.



lynx29 said:


> that's shady as crap wording. lol  intel and amd are the same, there is no point in brand loyalty its capitalism.  neither of these companies care about you.


Yes, they're profit seeking enterprises, so I don't get why everyone's so surprised. They make products to sell to us so they can make money. It's not stranger than that.


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Maybe you read it, but you clearly didn't understand it. The support isn't for you or me, it's for the board makers and their parts suppliers. Know that they have four or five generations of products using the same socket, means that they can plan far ahead in the future and place orders accordingly. That matters a lot when you run a business.



Meaning they planned to backstab us from the beginning using facts they should've only told manufacturers, to advertise their CONSUMER products at CONSUMER targeted events too, So well that changes nothing, they could at least have specified that chipsets would have not guaranteed support for all the CPUs throughout the period they intended to support AM4, instead they didn't, and nobody asked because it sounded obvious that it was meant as everyone understood it.


----------



## Sonicjms (May 7, 2020)

Eh, I'll wait and see if my b350 gets a bios update, technically according to that chart it shouldn't have 3000 series support but it does and if one manufacturer does it they all have to in order to keep up appearances


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

Sonicjms said:


> Eh, I'll wait and see if my b350 gets a bios update, technically according to that chart it shouldn't have 3000 series support but it does and if one manufacturer does it they all have to in order to keep up appearances


Hopefully.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Yes, they're profit seeking enterprises, so I don't get why everyone's so surprised. They make products to sell to us so they can make money. It's not stranger than that.



Exactly, so I will pay 5% more and get max performance with z490 and ampere. and since navi 2 prob won't overclock stably similar to navi, once overclocked a 2070 super matches a 2080 super easily. ampere will prob oc very well as well, so i will oc a 3080 and obliterate navi 2. as history as shown this is almost every recent generation, i doubt it changes.


----------



## Kissamies (May 7, 2020)

I still guess that it's more up to motherboard manufacturers, just like 300-series shouldn't had an official Zen2 support.

(didn't read previous posts here, sorry)


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> Exactly, so I will pay 5% more and get max performance with z490 and ampere. and since navi 2 prob won't overclock stably similar to navi, once overclocked a 2070 super matches a 2080 super easily. ampere will prob oc very well as well, so i will oc a 3080 and obliterate navi 2. as history as shown this is almost every recent generation, i doubt it changes.



I don't understand why you're talking about GPUs tho


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> Exactly, so I will pay 5% more and get max performance with z490 and ampere. and since navi 2 prob won't overclock stably similar to navi, once overclocked a 2070 super matches a 2080 super easily. ampere will prob oc very well as well, so i will oc a 3080 and obliterate navi 2. as history as shown this is almost every recent generation, i doubt it changes.


Rattle fully thrown out of pram then, go you.

@oxidized  I think you need to get a grip mate soo emotional, damn AMD for innovation damn AMD for not having the foresight to tell us Exactly what's occuring in three years.

Wtaf mate show me an example of any company being that specific about a product three to four no,,,  find one that specific even a year ahead of them even f#£ing designing it,  please do.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2020)

oxidized said:


> I don't understand why you're talking about GPUs tho



because AMD is a company is still disappointing me as a whole. Navi driver instability 8 months after release is a bit unacceptable. you still can't use msi afterburner to do a mild oc on Navi without it crashing.

this reflects on AMD as a collective whole. this news is the just the nail in the coffin for me. so time for z490 and ampere, stability and quality. as history has shown.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> Rattle fully thrown out of pram then, go you.
> 
> @oxidized  I think you need to get a grip mate soo emotional, damn AMD for innovation damn AMD for not having the foresight to tell us Exactly what's occuring in three years.
> 
> Wtaf mate show me an example of any company being that specific about a product three to four no,,,  find one that specific even a year ahead of them even f#£ing designing it,  please do.



im thankful for AMD for kickstarting competition, time to go back to quality though.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> because AMD is a company is still disappointing me as a whole. Navi driver instability 8 months after release is a bit unacceptable. you still can't use msi afterburner to do a mild oc on Navi without it crashing.
> 
> this reflects on AMD as a collective whole. this news is the just the nail in the coffin for me. so time for z490 and ampere, stability and quality. as history has shown.
> 
> ...


Don't forget that time they brought out Polaris only to over do the pciex ,you still here.


----------



## Tom Yum (May 7, 2020)

I'm rocking a 3900x on my X370 ASRock Taichi which according to AMD isn't supported. And that is ok, because it is the motherboard manufacturers who ultimately decide what their motherboards support and don't support. Some motherboard manufacturers skimped on small 16mb bios chips, they will always struggle to support newer chips. Others however did better, like the X370 Taichi and therefore have been able to accommodate 3rd gen. The latest asrock bios for my board recommends against upgrading in you run older Ryzen's, likely because they are preparing to drop support for older generations to make room for newer ones. 

I think AMD doesn't want the uncertainty of saying 'your motherboard may or may not support 4th gen Ryzen', so it is easier to draw a hard line at X570/B550 yes, everything else no'. I'm confident though that the vast majority of X470's and B450 boards will get support, 1) because history has shown us that is generally the case, and 2) 4th gen remains electrically and physically compatible to AM4.


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> @oxidized  I think you need to get a grip mate soo emotional, damn AMD for innovation damn AMD for not having the foresight to tell us Exactly what's occuring in three years.
> 
> Wtaf mate show me an example of any company being that specific about a product three to four no,,,  find one that specific even a year ahead of them even f#£ing designing it,  please do.



What? Not sure you smoked something honestly, nobody asked that AMD should've supported their "socket" until 2021, they promised it, and now they're basically not keeping that promise, because although they're supporting AM4, many will still have to buy a new mobo, so the result is the same.



lynx29 said:


> because AMD is a company is still disappointing me as a whole. Navi driver instability 8 months after release is a bit unacceptable. you still can't use msi afterburner to do a mild oc on Navi without it crashing.
> 
> this reflects on AMD as a collective whole. this news is the just the nail in the coffin for me. so time for z490 and ampere, stability and quality. as history has shown.



Their CPUs are fantastic, what are you talking about, besides talking about GPUs is out of place here, it's totally offtopic, and doesn't really makes you credible, because you're sounding pretty much a fanboy with these.


----------



## Patriot (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> im thankful for AMD for kickstarting competition, time to go back to quality though.



XD  nothing quality about having to use a water chiller to hit 5.4ghz to win an old benchmark on an older OS that doesn't have the scheduler updates for your competition and having to remove SGX because you were incapable of fixing it.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

oxidized said:


> What? Not sure you smoked something honestly, nobody asked that AMD should've supported their "socket" until 2021, they promised it, and now they're basically not keeping that promise, because although they're supporting AM4, some will still have to buy a new mobo, so the result is the same.
> 
> 
> 
> Their CPUs are fantastic, what are you talking about, besides talking about GPU is out of place here, it's totally offtopic, and doesn't really makes you credible, because you're sounding pretty much a fanboy with these.


Your chatting absolute rubbish mate , your facts are your interpretation and it's lead to delusion.

Shout me up when you , no don't.


----------



## apoklyps3 (May 7, 2020)

I wonder how many "+"s intel can add to their stonage era 14nm process before fanboys figure out it's a scam


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Your chatting absolute rubbish mate , your facts are your interpretation and it's lead to delusion.
> 
> Shout me up when you , no don't.



Oh, MY interpretation? Well ok then maybe you haven't read many posts here or around other forums, that's anyone's interpretation, anyone with no bias.


----------



## apoklyps3 (May 7, 2020)

how intel fanboys feel when they pay 500+ more $ for 10 extra  fps in random junk like fortinte


----------



## TheinsanegamerN (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Maybe you read it, but you clearly didn't understand it. The support isn't for you or me, it's for the board makers and their parts suppliers. Know that they have four or five generations of products using the same socket, means that they can plan far ahead in the future and place orders accordingly. That matters a lot when you run a business.


So AMD let the hype train build by marketing this socket to AMD DIY customers knowing well that this was a lie. If Intel marketed, say, LGA 1200 as having a 4 year life-cycle and then artificially segmented their boards with chipsets, only allowing certain CPU to work with certain chipsets, you'd be saying their were scumbags taking advantage of customers. The VERY people that ripped intel apart when it was revealed there was no technical reason the 8700k needed to be on a different socket are now jumping to AMD's defense when they do the exact same thing. There is no reason they cant support ryzen 4000 on x370. They could have mandated a 256Mbit ROM to hold future iterations of CPU microcode. But no, they backstabbed customers and sold on their long history of forwards compatibility only to run rough-shot over their consumer base.

If you have to buy a new motherboard for a CPU 2 years after the first iteration, then you are no better then intel. Ryzen came out the same year as LGA 1151, and now the same time Intel is moving to a new socket those earlier AMD customers have to buy new motherboards too, and dont even get the potential benefits of having a new socket, like better power delivery or more PCIe lanes.

The difference here is Intel tells you up front they are going to punch you in the face, AMD pretends to befriend you only to hit you on the back of the head with a wrench. There are plenty of AMD customers, myself included, that would not have bought into AM4 if they know the generation would be segmented like this, how curious AMD didnt bother defining this until the last generation was ready. Curious.....Almost like they were squeezing money out of their customers before spitting in their face. (after all, the 4 year support was NOT defined as "for manufacturers only" and never did AMD say "you wont be able to use 4000 series chips on 300 and 400 series motherboards". How....convenient for them.)



apoklyps3 said:


> I wonder how many "+"s intel can add to their stonage era 14nm process before fanboys figure out it's a scam


I wonder how many node changes AMD will need before AMD fanboys admit AMD still cant match Skylake in gaming performance.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> Exactly, so I will pay 5% more and get max performance with z490 and ampere. and since navi 2 prob won't overclock stably similar to navi, once overclocked a 2070 super matches a 2080 super easily. ampere will prob oc very well as well, so i will oc a 3080 and obliterate navi 2. as history as shown this is almost every recent generation, i doubt it changes.


Great story, but no-one cares.


----------



## Turmania (May 7, 2020)

I dont care about intel or amd. I just buy one that suits me and my wallet.  What I never understood is both companies are out there to milk you and they have when they had the advantage.


----------



## Space Lynx (May 7, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Great story, but no-one cares.



don't care about your opinions either, but here we are, reading the same the thread. neat stuff.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> don't care about your opinions either, but here we are, reading the same the thread. neat stuff.


Some what ironically you hate AMD the topic of this thread he isn't arsed but is non dramatic and reality based.


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Some what ironically you hate AMD the topic of this thread he isn't arsed but is non dramatic and reality based.



Reality only you red boyos see?


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

oxidized said:


> Reality only you red boyos see?


Quite the opposite, it's the reality you expected that's the issue, it's based on a slide that ended at 2021 and had no more than ten letter's on it, never mind a specific list of future support for a design on the drawing board that would if theoretically possible to explain, would have alerted your competitors to your intentions, that would be bold.


----------



## TheinsanegamerN (May 7, 2020)

Turmania said:


> I dont care about intel or amd. I just buy one that suits me and my wallet.  What I never understood is both companies are out there to milk you and they have when they had the advantage.


You dont care about either platform, but if you bought into one platform because of the promise of future support and that support was taken away, you'd probably be a little pissed, as many who bought a X470 motherboard last year are that their motherboards are now EOL after just a year while AMD was touting AM4 being supported through 2020, especially as many were willing to support AMD with the idea of taking the final chip, ryzen 4000, and getting 5+ total years of use out of their motherboards while being able to upgrade with better performance and more cores without a full system rebuild. 

Both companies milk their fanbases, but when they twist the nipples after milking, they get a very negative reaction.


----------



## ppn (May 7, 2020)

A320 Asrock does support even x3950, so that makes the above information untrue. Because it shows that A320 is out of the line for 3000 series as well as 4000 series. In the end old chipset just miss pcie4.0. not the entire support. That said 4000 series is useless, end of the line, and the motherboards for it are dead ends in the wake of ddr5.


----------



## olymind1 (May 7, 2020)

djisas said:


> But yeah, only was of mobo manufactures making money is by selling new ones, new bios cost them money...



They only get money, if you buy a new motherboard from them, because you trust them that you'll get good support from them. Maybe you stay loyal to them... 
If they withdraw support, you'll start thinking if they are trustworthy and not worth spending money at them on you next system...

By the way, i wonder how long AMD know this, know is the wrong word, when they decided to cut support / upgrade path for older chipsets/motherboards. 

Last year i waited for Zen2, but it was expensive for me at that time, so i settled for a 2600, AMD released x570 PCIe 4.0 chipset, but delayed B550 chipset, so i bought an MSI B450 Tomahawk, because there were no B550.. When bought this board, they probably had a good laugh too: next year or the year after that, if you'll want the new Zen3, you'll have to upgrade to a new MB anyway  

Even before Zen2 release AMD and MB manufactures know about the small bios size issues, they had to for months, they designed them, yet said nothing, just continued to sell those. Don't tell me they couldn't anticipate how much free bios space needed for the new cpus.

I'm not saying my current system is bad, just this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  But will see if MSI release some kind of Zen3 support bios.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 7, 2020)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> You dont care about either platform, but if you bought into one platform because of the promise of future support and that support was taken away, you'd probably be a little pissed, as many who bought a X470 motherboard last year are that their motherboards are now EOL after just a year while AMD was touting AM4 being supported through 2020, especially as many were willing to support AMD with the idea of taking the final chip, ryzen 4000, and getting 5+ total years of use out of their motherboards while being able to upgrade with better performance and more cores without a full system rebuild.
> 
> Both companies milk their fanbases, but when they twist the nipples after milking, they get a very negative reaction.


If I had bought an x470 last year when x570 was out I'd be pissed, I would slap my Pcmr go-to guy in the effin face for shit advice, always buy that year's motherboard for the best possible compatibility with next year's CPU, that is not new.
I bought x470 on release, I'm a bit miffed, but having seen this kind of mega dramma play out I'm not at all arsed , things can change and if they don't I'll either wait for x670 or weva ,or buy a x570 when they're both needed and cheaper.
No one is forced to buy.


----------



## oxidized (May 7, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Quite the opposite, it's the reality you expected that's the issue, it's based on a slide that ended at 2021 and had no more than ten letter's on it, *never mind a specific list of future support for a design on the drawing board that would if theoretically possible to explain,* *would have alerted your competitors to your intentions, that would be bold.*



Lmao ridiculous

Go read the other posts, AM4 or not AM4 people still need to buy a new motherboard unless mobo makers will make their mobo support those CPUs. Keep climbing


----------



## sepheronx (May 8, 2020)

I find it rather ironic that people praising Intel are going after AMD for having to tell customers that they need a newer chipset after 3 Ryzen iterations working on current boards, to work on Ryzen 4000; when Intel is now talking of Socket 1700 when 1200 isn't out yet.

People, simply go for best price to performance based setup.  If you have either or, you will be stuck having to buy a new board for either new processor anyway. And we already know Intel is looking at a new socket as is.

And really, I thinks it's best to wait and see what the final outcome is.  Like A320 support for Ryzen 3000 series I expect some motherboard makers will offer a bios update.


----------



## dyonoctis (May 8, 2020)

Selective reading at it finest.

The past showed us that bios memory was an issue, with some board from MSI not being able to accept every AM4 CPU, or even some functionality like sata raid when it's supposed to be a standard. It was already a mess because it means that some brands had full am4 compatibilty, when some other had a selective compatibility.

Now AMD is saying because of that same reason (aka motherboard makers being cheapstakes) they literally can't have every single am4 motherboard be compatible with every am4 cpu. Ryzen gen 1 was scrapped from having official support for 500 chipset, but...some x570 motherboard are compatible with gen 1 ryzen :








The issue ? not all board might be able to handle that because again, all manufacturer don't use thet same bios chip. So you can't just say that x570 support is official when it's going to be a case by case possibilty. That's just a nightmare for the consumer.

And you can't either start to sell some b450 with a bios only compatible with zen 2 and zen 3. Some guy might still want to get a cheap zen+, another one with zen 1 might have his old board dying on him, but suddenly a few b450 dropped support for his cpu, so you gotta look wich brand, wich model can support your cpu...
Then you get that guy with his shiny new ryzen 4000 cpu, and shiny new* b450 motherboard...who won't work because it's one that use a small bios chip.

It's a mess, but not a mess where amd is the only one at fault, motherboard makers made is so that full compatibility with every AM4 motherboard isn't possible across the board, without introducing some hellish headache when you wonder if x board will work with x cpu, because of all the different bios running around.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> Lmao ridiculous
> 
> Go read the other posts, AM4 or not AM4 people still need to buy a new motherboard unless mobo makers will make their mobo support those CPUs. Keep climbing


They made a bad choice, I get people being pissed about that, if you bought X450/70 and a ryzen3@@@ cpu you made a bad choice, based on an interpretation of very very slim details not confirmed facts and in no way detailed.

But notwithstanding that you also sacrificed Pciex4 support, it's stand out feature.

PBO2 ,no x470 board does as well in boost terms without a static clock.

and improved memory support and some boaRD dependant features.

Soo, you wanted good enough and cheaper, and it went wrong, I too wanted support through to the end too but what with AMD exceeding my expectations of what they would improve in a year never mind two given the core increases and pciex4 ill allow a pass after 3 years of cpu support which i got two upgrades out of, personally I don't swap yearly, few do, fewer still, in reality, buy with swapping a cpu next year in mind but your probably beyond seeing that.


----------



## freeagent (May 8, 2020)

Hopefully they ditch those stupid ****ing pins. I rolled with them from s462 to AM2 and I have always hated them. And I still do lol. Call me what you will, I have enjoyed my time with both companies, and that does give me the right to be pissy with them about whatever I choose because I'm not going to lie, they both have pissed me off over the years. I hear Intel still make a better motherboard than AMD.. depends on who you ask I suppose..

You guys are putting so much emotion into this, it’s crazy. They only care about you’re money. They don’t actually care about you, other than if you want to spend more money.

Be like me, don’t buy anything until they make something that’s worth you’re money. 

Fuck cinibench too lol.

I only say that because my hardware is old.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

freeagent said:


> Hopefully they ditch those stupid ****ing pins. I rolled with them from s462 to AM2 and I have always hated them. And I still do lol. Call me what you will, I have enjoyed my time with both companies, and that does give me the right to be pissy with them about whatever I choose because I'm not going to lie, they both have pissed me off over the years. I hear Intel still make a better motherboard than AMD.. depends on who you ask I suppose..
> 
> You guys are putting so much emotion into this, it’s crazy. They only care about you’re money. They don’t actually care about you, other than if you want to spend more money.
> 
> ...


heartily agree, choose via wallet ,debate for fun, roll with what you get with a smile.

F### I love pins, I have got hundreds of pounds of CPU ,for little a fair few times and only lost once on a Xeon ironically v5 ,can i find a board for it cheap, won't work in my b250.

I once got a 2700X with 60 pins flat to the base ,it lived the cheap shit ,my cousin loves it, took Time though.


----------



## Caring1 (May 8, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> I have a half a mind to sell my ryzen 3600 cpu now


While you are only using half your mind, shoot me a PM if you are serious about selling that 3600  
I'm looking for a reasonably priced one.


----------



## freeagent (May 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> heartily agree, choose via wallet ,debate for fun, roll with what you get with a smile.



My phone is stronger then both of my computers lol.



			Intel Xeon X5690 Benchmarks  - Geekbench Browser
		



			Intel Core i7-3770K Benchmarks  - Geekbench Browser
		



			iPhone XS Max Benchmarks  - Geekbench Browser


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

freeagent said:


> My phone is stronger then both of my computers lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Apple will get exposed for bench cheating next don't sweat it, if it works doing your tasks your good if not well , keep smiling try n get some OT in at work.


----------



## ARF (May 8, 2020)

Every AM4 board can support every AM4 CPU. Just make 2 BIOS versions for each, so people can grab the one that suits them right.
Everything else is a betrayal from AMD.
They don't even offer a normal full-sized Ryzen 3000 lineup.
They should start ditching the old quad cores as low-end entry level offerings, and instead move the entire lineup up to the 8-core for Renoir. Only the things above Renoir should be chiplets.


----------



## freeagent (May 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Apple will get exposed for bench cheating next don't sweat it, if it works doing your tasks your good if not well , keep smiling try n get some OT in at work.



I love a good scandal. Oh yeah just need a phone, nothing crazy.. it was certified pre owned because I am that cheap.

No O.T. but lucky we still have a job cranking out parts. We are considered an essential worker because of the parts we make and who we make them for. So for that I am thankful, because I know others who have lost their incomes.


----------



## oxidized (May 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> They made a bad choice, I get people being pissed about that, if you bought X450/70 and a ryzen3@@@ cpu you made a bad choice, based on an interpretation of very very slim details not confirmed facts and in no way detailed.
> 
> But notwithstanding that you also sacrificed Pciex4 support, it's stand out feature.
> 
> ...



Here's the blabbering again, we're talking about oranges and you mix in apples, pasta, sushi and kebab, good job, again. They never even cared to explain that they didn't mean for all chipsets to support every CPUs, they just went on with "we're supporting AM4 until 2021" what does this mean for person with a normal functioning brain? "Cool i'm to keep my mobo (give i buy a decent one) and can swap my CPU with better ones as they come out, sick" remember they used that during consumer targeted events and questions concerning durability of their platform.

Also has anyone thought about the fact that next chipset generation, which is supposed to be 600 is going to get launched only for ryzen series 4000? Since after that they drop the support for AM4.


----------



## ARF (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> Also has anyone thought about the fact that next chipset generation, which is supposed to be 600 is going to get launched only for ryzen series 4000? Since after that they drop the support for AM4.



There is no problem to have X670 with higher DDR4-4000+ support, lower chipset power consumption, passive chipset cooling, some other cool new features.
Many people dislike X570, anyways.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> Here's the blabbering again, we're talking about oranges and you mix in apples, pasta, sushi and kebab, good job, again. They never even cared to explain that they didn't mean for all chipsets to support every CPUs, they just went on with *"we're supporting AM4 until 2021" what does this mean for person with a normal functioning brain? "Cool i'm to keep my mobo (give i buy a decent one) and can swap my CPU with better ones as they come out, sick" remember they used that during consumer targeted events and questions concerning durability of their platform.*
> 
> Also wehas anyone thought about the fact that next chipset generation, which is supposed to be 600 is going to get launched only for ryzen series 4000? Since after that they drop the support for AM4.


The bastard's how dare they, I wonder if intel will or perhaps they'll be late to pciex5 and ddr5, I agree stop all updates, freeze no one improve anything until all the butt hurt are sorted.

Kinda laughable bios support is always a joke no matter the board you get.
That's my experience a year maybe two.

You realise I own an x470!

Whereas you don't, odd.

*And again with the making shit up ,do show something to back that nonesense up.

its your kind of miss information that causes this , well you and Intel's comedy pr team.

if AMD had a comedy pr team it would be an improvement.*


----------



## oxidized (May 8, 2020)

ARF said:


> There is no problem to have X670 with higher DDR4-4000+ support, lower chipset power consumption, passive chipset cooling, some other cool new features.
> Many people dislike X570, anyways.



No problems it's just so intel style.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> The bastard's how dare they, I wonder if intel will or perhaps they'll be late to pciex5 and ddr5, I agree stop all updates, freeze no one improve anything until all the butt hurt are sorted.
> 
> Kinda laughable bios support is always a joke no matter the board you get.
> That's my experience a year maybe two.
> ...



You really can't help but raving huh? You keep adding and talking about stuff nobody never mentioned and are not of use in the argument like pciex5 or ddr5, you have a very weird way of talking, i mean you're british you should make sense, instead reading you is like reading someone who's been drinking for the whole day.
I'm not making anything up, the only thing going on here is you trying to defend your boyos at all costs, and i don't give a steaming sh** about intel, they could close down tomorrow and i wouldn't even be blinking, not everyone is fan of PC components companies like yourself, i don't honestly give a damn about who i'm buying from, the only thing i give a damn about is my wallet and my experience with what i buy.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> No problems it's just so intel style.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Alright ,did you buy x470 or not,, they're not my boyos ,and I apologize for being a fan of pc components ALONE with no bias but this is a tech forum ,one of few places my kind of geek can chill, I own a bit of everything and moan about them all from time to time don't worry, so long as you're choosing with your wallet your on track ish.

I sware you read half, if not less of anything I replied to you, have been quite insulting, and completely oblivious to the fact I both understand your main point, I agree if I had just bought a board (x470) I'd be unhappy, the only part we disagree on, is who is to blame and the evidence of this, and the degree of offence, so a bit then but not everything.

Point is your calling me a fan boy for looking into a thread about future support for my type of board while you have no coin in the game yet are still here, tut.


----------



## Ammar (May 8, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> I guess people that have invested in an X470/B450 motherboard are going to be pissed off that they can't use a Ryzen 4000 CPU in their boards...
> 
> Shame the CPU uplink isn't PCIe 4.0.



invested in a X470-F. smh


----------



## Gam3n (May 8, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> In theory, yes. However, it takes time to make these things and even more so, test them. As such, it's something I can't see the board makers being willing to do, unless there's a really good reason for them to do so. I mean, after all, they've already sold the product to you and would rather sell you another, than continuing adding support for new CPUs to an old board. This is capitalism for you.



No, that's not capitalism, that's greed, and those are two different things. In capitalism you have greed balanced by the fear of losing customers. AMD seem to not care about that. Many people were hyping the supposed longevity of the platform in 2017, which was a big departure from what Intel did for many years. And AMD also had in the past support for AM3+ processors on some AM2 boards. Did anyone from AMD come out and say clearly "guys, when we say 2020, we mean the same socket, not compatibility". No, they didn't. It's completely ok to drop support of X370 and B350, they really do have a small BIOS and are getting quite old. But X470 are still sold parallel to X570, and the only difference is PCI gen 4 support. MSI had the MAX refresh on their 4xx series boards, which had 256 Mb BIOS and Support for Ryzen 3000 out of the box. I bought one of those recently, since my X370 Asrock was getting on my nerves, and decided to get some money for it while it was still worth something. And many listings of similar boards on ebay pointed out the compatibility with Ryzen 3000, which surely helped keep the resale value. If AMD is concerned with BIOS size, then at least have the 256 Mb 4XX boards get that support. Just drop Ryzen 1000 like on X570 boards, which also have 256 Mb by the way. 

It can't be that last year most manufacturers released BIOS with support for 3000 series on their X370 and B350 boards, but this year they can't, because they will lose sales and the testing costs time and money. Didn't they think last year, that an update of X370 will cost them the sale of an X570 board? They did, so why did they released it? Because customer loyalty, that's why. The move made so many owners happy that their investment will get them through another generation without additional cost, or that they will get more money when they sell a board that supports the latest gen CPUs. I can't remember anyone bashing AMD or the manufacturers for doing that. It was all praise. Naturally, when they do the exact opposite now, they will get flack. And all it takes is one manufacturer to say eff it, we are releasing our own BIOS (if AMD are not complete d's about it and hard block based on chipset). Then everyone will know, this one manufacturer is consumer friendly, and will flock to them. And the others will have no choice but to follow.


----------



## dyonoctis (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> Here's the blabbering again, we're talking about oranges and you mix in apples, pasta, sushi and kebab, good job, again. They never even cared to explain that they didn't mean for all chipsets to support every CPUs, they just went on with "we're supporting AM4 until 2021" what does this mean for person with a normal functioning brain? "Cool i'm to keep my mobo (give i buy a decent one) and can swap my CPU with better ones as they come out, sick" remember they used that during consumer targeted events and questions concerning durability of their platform.
> 
> Also has anyone thought about the fact that next chipset generation, which is supposed to be 600 is going to get launched only for ryzen series 4000? Since after that they drop the support for AM4.


One can assume that it might have been the initial plan, but when they realised that they couldn't make the bios small enough, they had to do that(16Mo bios chips from MSI FTW). Notice how B350/X370 is shown as not being compatible with Ryzen 3000, when a fair amount of B350/X370 can make them work without any issue. Imo, the next time AMD should make some guidelines for their partners so that we avoid those kind of situation again.

As for the 600 chipset, the ryzen 4000 are going to be the last cpu's with support for DDR4, I don't know the details about those chipset, but I doubt that it's going to be a loss for Ryzen 3000 owner, The next big changes are going to be after the switch to ddr 5 (usb4, pci-e 5). If the feature set is the same, you might as well just get a cheaper 500 motherboard if you plan to get a cheaper ryzen 3000 anyways.

Now that I think about it, people where far less angry when they announced that Threadripper zen2/TR40 would basically be a new platform without backward compatibilty. a few ranted for 3 pages then quickly moved on. Here it's 10 pages and counting   .



> MSI had the MAX refresh on their 4xx series boards, which had 256 Mb BIOS


The Max refresh only went from 16mb to 32mb:








						MSI Expands its B450 MAX Series with Gaming Pro Carbon MAX WiFi and Bazooka MAX WiFi
					

MSI, a world-leading motherboard manufacturer, proudly introduces two new B450 MAX motherboards, B450 GAMING PRO CARBON MAX WIFI and B450M BAZOOKA MAX WIFI. For the 3rd Gen Ryzen processors, the new MAX motherboards are optimized with best compatibility in every aspects. These two new MAX...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Gam3n (May 8, 2020)

AnarchoPrimitiv said:


> Why is it that everyone treats AMD with a double standard?  Nvidia jacks up prices on RTX, that's ok, but when AMD prices Navi similarly for similar performance, everyone gets hysterical because I guess they have an expectation that AMD, and only AMD, should sell them whatever they want dirt cheap.  Intel has a chipset support a single generation, but then when AMD supports 3 generations with a Chipset, everyone gets hysterical, because I guess they expect AMD, and only AMD, to allow them to use their crappy B350 board forever.



You must be from a parallel universe, it was never OK that Nvidia jacked up the prices of RTX so much. It was noted by every reviewer and in every article and forum. The ridicule was off the charts, expecially the meme-worhty "it just works". GN tore a new one on that Tom's Hardware guy that tried to defend Nvidia. It was also never OK that intel forced a new chipset for chips that are using the same power, same architecture and same node. When AMD says they are better than Intel and Nvidia, people tend to expect they don't do the same dick moves, yes.



dyonoctis said:


> Now that I think about it, people where far less angry when they announced that Threadripper zen2/TR40 would basically be a new platform without backward compatibilty. a few ranted for 3 pages then quickly moved on. Here it's 10 pages and counting   .


The user base of threadripper is like many orders of magnitude smaller than normal desktop ryzen.



dyonoctis said:


> The Max refresh only went from 16mb to 32mb:



That's 32 MB from 16 MB, 256 Mb is 32 MB. Bits and Bytes.


----------



## oxidized (May 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Alright ,did you buy x470 or not,, they're not my boyos ,and I apologize for being a fan of pc components ALONE with no bias but this is a tech forum ,one of few places my kind of geek can chill, I own a bit of everything and moan about them all from time to time don't worry, so long as you're choosing with your wallet your on track ish.
> 
> I sware you read half, if not less of anything I replied to you, have been quite insulting, and completely oblivious to the fact I both understand your main point, I agree if I had just bought a board (x470) I'd be unhappy, the only part we disagree on, is who is to blame and the evidence of this, and the degree of offence, so a bit then but not everything.
> 
> Point is your calling me a fan boy for looking into a thread about future support for my type of board while you have no coin in the game yet are still here, tut.



I did not buy any AMD platform yet, but i was interested in that in the future (i said so in one of the first posts i made here), but my complain here is about what AMD kinda promised and what actually delivered, or will deliver, but anyway apparently mobo makers could actually mantain compatibility if they want to so that's to be seen, i just expected that they wouldn't have forced nobody to buy a new motherboard for their last gen on AM4, making that motherboard totally useless after that, like intel did these years back, who is there to blame? Everyone man, but mainly AMD, because they can decide and give guidelines, i'm a fan of PC components too, but just don't care to defend or to attack randomly, i only do if i feel they did wrong stuff, like this here, again hopefully mobo makers will make this all go away but still! Anyway i'm off, good night.




dyonoctis said:


> One can assume that it might have been the initial plan, but when they realised that they couldn't make the bios small enough, they had to do that(16Mo bios chips from MSI FTW). Notice how B350/X370 is shown as not being compatible with Ryzen 3000, when a fair amount of B350/X370 can make them work without any issue. Imo, the next time AMD should make some guidelines for their partners so that we avoid those kind of situation again.
> 
> As for the 600 chipset, the ryzen 4000 are going to be the last cpu's with support for DDR4, I don't know the details about those chipset, but I doubt that it's going to be a loss for Ryzen 3000 owner, The next big changes are going to be after the switch to ddr 5 (usb4, pci-e 5). If the feature set is the same, you might as well just get a cheaper 500 motherboard if you plan to get a cheaper ryzen 3000 anyways.
> 
> Now that I think about it, people where far less angry when they announced that Threadripper zen2/TR40 would basically be a new platform without backward compatibilty. a few ranted for 3 pages then quickly moved on. Here it's 10 pages and counting   .



Yeah if this turns out to be the same, you're well right AMD should make guidelines and make sure everyone respects them! 

My point is 600 chipset mobo will be useless after that, since AMD will be dropping AM4 (not complaining about this, after 4 years i guess it's time) sounds like what intel has been doing and that's also why i don't really like that, mobo maker will want to sell series 600 mobos, and if they make ryzen 4000 work on older mobos they would lose sales, and that's why they might not make it, but anyway, we'll see.


----------



## dyonoctis (May 8, 2020)

Gam3n said:


> The user base of threadripper is like many orders of magnitude smaller than normal desktop ryzen.
> 
> That's 32 MB from 16 MB, 256 Mb is 32 MB. Bits and Bytes.



Yes, but even the reaction of the TR clients were more toned down. And the whole thread quickly moved to be more civilised and brainstormed about the why/eventual benefits, when here "told you so" people came out to say :"Intel ain't that bad now ain't it ? Ryzen was never that great to begin with"

My bad, I'm not familiar with the Bits measurement.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> I did not buy any AMD platform yet, but i was interested in that in the future (i said so in one of the first posts i made here), but my complain here is about what AMD kinda promised and what actually delivered, or will deliver, but anyway apparently mobo makers could actually mantain compatibility if they want to so that's to be seen, i just expected that they wouldn't have forced nobody to buy a new motherboard for their last gen on AM4, making that motherboard totally useless after that, like intel did these years back, who is there to blame? Everyone man, but mainly AMD, because they can decide and give guidelines, i'm a fan of PC components too, but just don't care to defend or to attack randomly, i only do if i feel they did wrong stuff, like this here, again hopefully mobo makers will make this all go away but still! Anyway i'm off, good night.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your expectations will never be met then , what comes next for AMD and Intel, you may know the names all else is gossip, no,.  Specifications get released when the product does,, before then they are subject to change.
And before then they are a competitive secret.


At the end of the day they make what they can of the millions of chips and sell that then when they know what they Will do.

And then board maker's do whatever makes commercial sense not normally to help the user

With not owning one at least you can choose still chill..

Another thing if you bought a 3600X thinking of upgrades you do still have options ,a 3950X if you got that your probably sticking a year at least.


----------



## bencrutz (May 8, 2020)

AnarchoPrimitiv said:


> Really?
> 
> REally?
> 
> Just out of curiosity, because I'm honestly curious when people have a configuration like yours, and I absolutely mean no offense, but how is it possible that you could afford a $750 CPU, but then not have $200 for an X570 motherboard (there's X570 boards down to $160)?



why not? this board serves me well, very strong VRM - don't make a sweat with 3950x fully loaded, got T-topology vs the previous crosshair vi i owned which was giving me headache when 4 dimms fully populated

i don't feel the urge to upgrade the board - don't use any pcie 4 device & especially X570 all with daisy chain memory, don't think i wanna shell out money just to test em out like i did when AM4 first comes out


----------



## PYRO1125 (May 8, 2020)

Using a Asrock X470 Taichi. If I recall the B350 & X370 boards didn't have official support from AMD for the Ryzen 3000 series CPU's yet, the companies who make those boards  support those CPU's with a simple BIOS update.
This might be the case for us X400 series owners once Zen3 finally comes out. I have my fingers crossed  I'm going to take a guess that the Zen3 chips will support higher RAM frequency and that the x400 series boards will have a hard time to enable whatever frequency is the base for Zen3. That's if the Zen3 chips will work in x400 series boards we have to all wait and see. If not well I have my eye on the 3950x to drop in, and I'm sure a price drop once Zen3 comes out. Would also like to add that it has 16 Power Phase design capable of providing extra 300W for CPU. I'm sure this is overkill for Zen3 and AMD knows that the 400 series will support Zen3 but they want everyone to buy a new mobo. They are still not as bad like Intel, yet  Yet being the key word lol


----------



## oxrufiioxo (May 8, 2020)

apoklyps3 said:


> how intel fanboys feel when they pay 500+ more $ for 10 extra  fps in random junk like fortinte




To be fair AMD fanboys would feel the same way.


----------



## windwhirl (May 8, 2020)

apoklyps3 said:


> how intel fanboys feel when they pay 500+ more $ for 10 extra  fps in random junk like fortinte



Say what you want about Star Wars prequels, it gave us so much meme material lol


----------



## Deleted member 190774 (May 8, 2020)

It's not ideal for sure, but hey, I bought a ROG Zenith Extreme with 2950X explicitly thinking I'd be able to put a 3960X in it when they were released - but no, 'expected to buy an AU$1400 motherboard to go with an AU$2600 processor! That mobo costs almost as much as your whole computer


----------



## Prince Valiant (May 8, 2020)

R-T-B said:


> I thought Ryzen was always only promised out to Ryzen 2, aka you get a refresh and a new arch, but thats it.  Could be wrong though...  I rode that train quite a while ago.











						AMD reaffirms commitment to AM4 socket until 2020
					

AMD's support for AM4 is a huge strength for the company




					www.overclock3d.net
				











						AMD's Zen 4/Ryzen 5th Gen CPUs will likely require a new socket - They told us in 2017
					

Today's rumours don't include new information




					www.overclock3d.net
				




The PR slide at the bottom of the second one shows up to 2020 and there's an asterisk.


----------



## Vya Domus (May 8, 2020)

ppn said:


> A320 Asrock does support even x3950, so that makes the above information untrue. Because it shows that A320 is out of the line for 3000 series as well as 4000 series. In the end old chipset just miss pcie4.0. not the entire support. That said 4000 series is useless, end of the line, and the motherboards for it are dead ends in the wake of ddr5.



You guys don't get it, you could have had motherboards that supported new CPUs even after a decade officially or not, the trolls and fanboys would've still came out of the woodwork to complain. Picture this, most of these people complaining on here wouldn't have touched anything made by AMD anyway. I admire their dedication to talk so much about something they don't even care about.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> Apple will get exposed for bench cheating next don't sweat it, if it works doing your tasks your good if not well , keep smiling try n get some OT in at work.



They are not cheating per say, they simply optimize their SoCs for certain workloads that are used in benchmarks.


----------



## Flanker (May 8, 2020)

Maybe we will get boards with huge ROM sizes as premium features


----------



## apoklyps3 (May 8, 2020)

the next logical step intel has to take to further humiliate them is to release trial motherboards.
no longer will they have to worry if the next chip will still on work on the current mobo. no your mobo will only be good fore a few months. then you have to buy a new one.
I really feel that intel fanboys have stockholm syndrome.
No mather how many stinky dumps intel takes on them, their bone to pick is still with the , now, far superior, AMD products.


----------



## Countryside (May 8, 2020)

So am i the only one here who sees the problem that im now forced to buy a new cpu if i buy an b550 board, but if i want to keep my 2600x my only option is to get an expensive x570 board.


----------



## dyonoctis (May 8, 2020)

Prince Valiant said:


> AMD reaffirms commitment to AM4 socket until 2020
> 
> 
> AMD's support for AM4 is a huge strength for the company
> ...









The lesson is to always read what's written in small. They did say  that it might change, we just didn't bothered to read what was written in small. Sadly, you can't make marketing with " You may or may not upgrade your CPU without buying a new motherboard". That kind of message written in big just doesn't inspire confidence.


----------



## Countryside (May 8, 2020)

dyonoctis said:


> View attachment 154246
> View attachment 154245
> The lesson is to always read what's written in small. They did say  that it might change, we just didn't bothered to read what was written in small. Sadly, you can't make marketing with " You may or may not upgrade your CPU without buying a new motherboard". That kind of message written in big just doesn't inspire confidence.



Like they say peasants can't be choosers


----------



## PYRO1125 (May 8, 2020)

AsRock x470:
------------------
- 16 Power Phase design
- Capable of providing extra 300W for CPU
- Supports ASRock Hyper BCLK Engine II 
- 256Mb AMI UEFI Legal BIOS with GUI support 


AsRock x570:
------------------
- 14 Power Phase design
- Capable of providing extra 300W for CPU
- Supports ASRock Hyper BCLK Engine II 
- 256Mb AMI UEFI Legal BIOS with GUI support 


Both have the same size BIOS and the x470 has a higher power phase design.
Something ain't right lol.  This looks like to me that AMD wants to push their PCI-e 4.0 on the 500 series boards and now make up some BS that Zen3 won't support 400 or even 300 series. 
Heres to hoping by the time Zen3 comes out the mobo vendors will have their own BIOS that will support Zen3 on 400 or maybe even 300 series mobo's.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (May 8, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> Luckily I am in the refund window still thanks to extensions. I will be refunding my tomahawk max now and waiting for B550, wow this is a shitty move, everyone told me it was a safe move to go from 3600 to 4800x on tomahawk max b450.
> 
> I have a half a mind to sell my ryzen 3600 cpu now and just go back to intel and z490 since its about to come out, if I have to buy a new mobo every two generations might as well go with Intel, and Navi drivers are a disappointment, so *might as well stick with tried and true Intel and Nvidia combo yet again. so long AMD you had a good run*



Seriously? Something doesn't happen the way you want it to and so you just join the other team without so much as giving your current one another chance? 



lynx29 said:


> just set up my refund for my b450 tomahawk max, will be going z490 and intel 10 core, and ampere. fk it



Gotta say, I'm disappointed you think this way, friend, as it doesn't seem like a logical thought. I say that because everybody and their effing grandma knows the Intel chips are going to be hot, energy sucking monsters (kinda like how AMD's FX CPUs were, ironically enough) that will need a super beefy $80+ air cooler at minimum to keep cool -- liquid cooling would be more appropriate though, which adds even more to the cost of adopting Intel's 10 core chip. You can get the Ryzen 9 3900x for $431 @ Amazon right now and not only spend less, but get two more cores and 24 threads AND a lower TDP! Just seems like a no brainer to me if you have the budget. 



lynx29 said:


> nah, Z490 is almost here. might as well go with that will get the $169 MSI Z490 board and the $499 Intel 10 core, and hopefully rtx 3080 will be out before cyberpunk 2077 comes out. i really enjoy overlcocking gpu and navi was never able to deliver on that stable, i won't be overclocking cpu so ryzen is still decent, but i might as well go with z490 now that its here. it will be faster in most games i expect, *9900k still beats amd by 5-10 fps across the board*. i expect it will be around same here if not a little more.



Sorry, but big whoop. 5-10fps is a negligible. So you get 5-10 more fps in games with an Intel chip...but at what cost? Sorry, but I just can't see the appeal *shrug*



dyonoctis said:


> Haha. I don't know why AMD couldn't annouce that sooner.* Now we are having lots of knee jerk reaction from people feeling betrayed, and AMD went back to being a trash company with uncompetitive product. The little bit of faith that they painfully managed to get from some people is now gone forever. *Ah well, they still managed to shook intel enough to make them react.
> 
> As usual, YMMV, but I never had any stability issues with my b350/1700x with 3000mhz memory. *Some people are acting as if they really were interested in AM4, when they seemed to had a preference for Intel all along, and they are now rubbing it in the face of those who prefered AMD. "Now we are the one with an uppgrade path"*



You picked up on this too, eh? I'm still not quite sure why Intel can get away with doing things like this and still be put on a pedestal, but when AMD does something similar, it's "grab yer pitch forks, we're rioting!". 


Cybrshrk said:


> Keyword HAD!
> 
> It literally doesn't matter as they've shown their "promises" to be quite hollow at times and who wants to take that risk.
> 
> ...



Can I play you some Marvin Gaye to go with that Intel BJ? It'll help set the mood.


----------



## YAYgee (May 8, 2020)

Does B550 support Zen 2 and Zen 3 APUs? You'd expect that but it was left out on their slide.


----------



## apoklyps3 (May 8, 2020)

how intel fanboys feel when intel forces them to upgrade their whole system by adding one more pin to their otherwise identic platform:


----------



## ARF (May 8, 2020)

dyonoctis said:


> View attachment 154246
> View attachment 154245
> The lesson is to always read what's written in small. They did say  that it might change, we just didn't bothered to read what was written in small. Sadly, you can't make marketing with " You may or may not upgrade your CPU without buying a new motherboard". That kind of message written in big just doesn't inspire confidence.




I guess that this report that anything besides X570 and B550 (which actually doesn't even retail or exist just yet) won't support Ryzen 4000 series is just pure false/fake news and it comes from the possibility that AMD simply protects itself from probable legal proceedings because not all AM4 motherboards could support all AM4 CPUs. So, they simply state as a support the minimum guaranteed support and will let the motherboard makers deal with the rest.


----------



## Melvis (May 8, 2020)

Id be lying if I said I wasn't a bit pissed off as I bought my X470 motherboard for exactly that reason for been able to upgrade to a 4000 series CPU in the future and this Motherboard wasn't cheap! If this does end up to be true then its not to bad as I can jump to a 3950X which from the 2700X is a good upgrade but still.....this wasnt the initial plan and If I knew this was going to be the case I would of jumped onto Ryzen earlier.....

The part thats even worse is I have built many clients Computers all mainly on the B450 motherboards and saying to all my clients you be fine all the way through till the end of 2020, got yrs of upgrades to choose from, now I look like a total lair! 

The whole BIOS thing is complete and utter BS, you only ever update your BIOS for when a new CPU comes out so your mobo can support it, you dont ever need to update your BIOS to go backwards in CPU's lol you only do it for upgrades.....so if a new BIOS was out and it removed support for older Gen 1 Ryzen CPU's then who cares! your not going backwards anyway, and if you ever do for some reason go backwards then flash it back, not hard! 

isn't Ryzen 4000 series just a refresh of the current 3000 series? that work in 90% of all boards? so what gives!


----------



## Caring1 (May 8, 2020)

Melvis said:


> The part thats even worse is I have built many clients Computers all mainly on the B450 motherboards and saying to all my clients you be fine all the way through till the end of 2020, got yrs of upgrades to choose from, now I look like a total lair!


If your systems can't last 7 months until the end of 2020, you have bigger problems.


----------



## Countryside (May 8, 2020)




----------



## ARF (May 8, 2020)

Melvis said:


> Id be lying if I said I wasn't a bit pissed off as I bought my X470 motherboard for exactly that reason for been able to upgrade to a 4000 series CPU in the future and this Motherboard wasn't cheap! If this does end up to be true then its not to bad as I can jump to a 3950X which from the 2700X is a good upgrade but still.....this wasnt the initial plan and If I knew this was going to be the case I would of jumped onto Ryzen earlier.....
> 
> The part thats even worse is I have built many clients Computers all mainly on the B450 motherboards and saying to all my clients you be fine all the way through till the end of 2020, got yrs of upgrades to choose from, now I look like a total lair!
> 
> ...




Nope, I would recommend to avoid the Ryzen 9 3950X unless it's a very cheap deal.
Ryzen 4000 is about to redefine the competitive landscape with groundbreaking IPC, clock uplifts, and better gaming and much better overall performance and offerings.


----------



## Melvis (May 8, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> If your systems can't last 7 months until the end of 2020, you have bigger problems.


That wasnt the point I was making lol the point was that you get 4yrs worth of CPU's to choose from and you can upgrade to said CPU in many yrs from now.


ARF said:


> Nope, I would recommend to avoid the Ryzen 9 3950X unless it's a very cheap deal.
> Ryzen 4000 is about to redefine the competitive landscape with groundbreaking IPC, clock uplifts, and better gaming and much better overall performance and offerings.



Well of course.....who would upgrade there CPU from a 2700X to a 3950X in just over a yr.....thats just silly, i meant in 4-5yrs from now.

Haha nice one! naturally its going to be better......but ground breaking? I dont think so.


----------



## hzy4 (May 8, 2020)

AMD has to justify the high price of x570 boards, so they decided Ryzen 3 will not be supported on X370 and x470 boards. Otherwise it would make no sense to pay 200+ for X570 starter boards like the TUF Gaming, when the X370, X470 are lower priced and offer much more OC settings. This was my thinking when Ryzen 2 released. I bought a low end X570 with the mindset to jump on Ryzen 3 in the future.


----------



## R0H1T (May 8, 2020)

Melvis said:


> The part thats even worse is I have built many clients Computers all mainly on the B450 motherboards and saying to all my clients you be fine all the way through till the end of 2020, got yrs of upgrades to choose from, *now I look like a total lair*!


That's not necessarily true, unless you said specifically zen 3 ~ in which case, yeah totally 

Also remember Ryzen 4xxx would first start with the (zen2) APUs so technically you'd be (partially?) covered. Anyway the point is an upgrade to Zen 2, say 3950x, from Zen or Zen+ chips is a major leap & something like 4950x would be better though not necessarily more than 10-20% faster on avg than the current MSDT king. On the other hand 3950x will come down in price appreciably over the course of its lifetime, if history is anything to go by.


----------



## zlobby (May 8, 2020)

bug said:


> What do you mean AMD won't confirm it? i thought this was common knowledge from day 1.


Yep, it's not just confirmed if there will be backdoors as in the previous versions yet. My bet is placed, however.


----------



## ARF (May 8, 2020)

Melvis said:


> Well of course.....who would upgrade there CPU from a 2700X to a 3950X in just over a yr.....thats just silly, i meant in 4-5yrs from now.
> 
> Haha nice one! naturally its going to be better......but ground breaking? I dont think so.




You have to read the Zen 3 microarchitecture updates. It will now have an 8-core CCX which should dramatically improve the gaming performance.

Informations are for 17% IPC uplift ON AVERAGE + 6-7% clock uplift.

I expect, fully expect the 12-core Ryzen 4900X to be as fast as Ryzen 9 3950X.


----------



## Turmania (May 8, 2020)

I do not mind if both AMD and Intel releases a new motherboard with every genaration of cpu released as long as the new cpu's are backwards compatible with the older in the same architecture family of motherboards.If they change the architecture of a cpu yeah i agree on new socket and compatibility changes.  Both Intel and AMD are doing it. Intel for this tenth gen should not have done it as well or at least release it but let it be compatible with z390 and etc. In short, they so it and getaway with it.none of them are your friends,there is no need for brand royalty unless you are on their share holders.


----------



## tfdsaf (May 8, 2020)

Cybrshrk said:


> I feel ya and it's why Ive recommended amd for most of my friends the last couple years but it's also why Ill be sticking with Intel.
> 
> I don't want to settle I want what's best and if I'm going to spend that money it's going to be what's the best value as well and my only measurement is gaming performance (it's a gaming pc after all).


Intel have stagnated and you'll need a new mobo for the 10k series of their cpu's, while if you wait a little, buy a B550 board, you will have future upgrade option with the 4000 series, with Intel you are going to have to upgrade mobo again with the 20k series or whatever they call it.


----------



## Melvis (May 8, 2020)

ARF said:


> You have to read the Zen 3 microarchitecture updates. It will now have an 8-core CCX which should dramatically improve the gaming performance.
> 
> Informations are for 17% IPC uplift ON AVERAGE + 6-7% clock uplift.
> 
> I expect, fully expect the 12-core Ryzen 4900X to be as fast as Ryzen 9 3950X.



Sounds great but it better not be! or I will be even more pissed off


----------



## 1d10t (May 8, 2020)

I think it's weird if they release this B550 without anything to plug in, my bet some of motherboard manufacture are gonna support Zen 2 3000 series out of the box.


----------



## oxidized (May 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Your expectations will never be met then , what comes next for AMD and Intel, you may know the names all else is gossip, no,.  Specifications get released when the product does,, before then they are subject to change.
> And before then they are a competitive secret.
> 
> 
> ...



I have no personal expectations, i only base them on words companies say, i don't make anything up of my own. Getting a 3950X to replace a 3600X isn't an upgrade, it's different CPUs for different uses, someone that buys a 3600X isn't looking for what a 3950X can give him, he's looking for what a 3600X gave him but better.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 8, 2020)

1d10t said:


> I think it's weird if they release this B550 without anything to plug in, my bet some of motherboard manufacture are gonna support Zen 2 3000 series out of the box.


Don't worry, it's coming


----------



## R0H1T (May 8, 2020)

What do you mean


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> I have no personal expectations, i only base them on words companies say, i don't make anything up of my own. Getting a 3950X to replace a 3600X isn't an upgrade, it's different CPUs for different uses, someone that buys a 3600X isn't looking for what a 3950X can give him, he's looking for what a 3600X gave him but better.


Again with the total rubbish , your here because your personal made up bullshit skewed your perspective.
Your so stuck in said perspective you can't see common sense.
And now you know what everyone wants.
Your wasting my time.

Still no proof anyone at AMD garaunted every CPU on every socket.

Just your perspective.

Stick it mate ,you know f all, and are a troll.


----------



## oxidized (May 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Again with the total rubbish , your here because your personal made up bullshit skewed your perspective.
> Your so stuck in said perspective you can't see common sense.
> And now you know what everyone wants.
> Your wasting my time.
> ...



It's not rubbish at all! That's not my perspective, it's everyone's! It's what AMD made everyone understand with "AM4 support until 2021"

AMD said AM4 would've been supported until 2021, but again what use could it be if i have to swap my motherboard regardless?


----------



## HTC (May 8, 2020)

Wasn't aware X370's didn't support Ryzen 3000 series processors:


----------



## deksman2 (May 8, 2020)

AMD's excuse on ROM chip size being insufficient on older motherboards does NOT appear to be valid:

Here's a Google DOC comparing ROM chip sizes from B350/X370, B450/X470 and X570 mobos:


			https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/edit#gid=2112472504
		


As you can see, X570 mobos come with both 16MB ROM chips and 32 MB.
More to the point, even B350/X370 along with B450/X470 mobos also come with same sized ROM chips (depending on the mobo of course).

So, ROM chip size doesn't seem to play that much of a part... unless of course the microcode update for Zen 3 is so huge that it needs to eliminate every single previous Zen CPU (Zen1,+ and Zen2)... which is something I very much doubt because even X570's come with only 16MB ROM's.

Before Zen 2 debuted, a similar problem occurred, but it wasn't AMD who said they won't support it, it was the OEM's who created the problem of giving too small ROM chip sizes and packing the ROM's with graphically intensive UI's
But it was found that stripping those UI's to the more basic graphical representation freed up more than enough space for Zen 2 microcode updates on 16MB ROM's (which is what the mobo manufacturers did).

Heck, even my Acer Helios 500 PH517-61 has a Ryzen 2700 and Vega 56... its a desktop replacement with a proprietary B450 mobo that has a 16MB ROM chip.
Acer's BIOS/UEFI UI is rather basic (dates back to DOS style represenation), but as a result, mere 47% of the ROM chip is used... which is not even half.
Acer unfortunately stopped supporting this unit shortly it was released, so I never got a BIOS upgrade path to Zen 2 (even though they could have integrated it - and the cooling in this unit has been specifically reworked for AMD which means its running cool and quiet - even under maxed out load - so it would be able to handle both Zen 2 and Zen 3 - at least CPU's up to 65W TDP).

If ROM chip sizes are an issue for some motheroboards, why doesn't AMD leave it to the mobo manufacturers instead like they did before?
In the case of 16MB ROM chips, support for Zen 1 CPU's could be taken out (but warn users that those on B350/X370 mobos with this update and if they are still running Zen 1 would be advised to use a loaner/cheap CPU of say Zen+ variety at least which is cheap just to get through the BIOS update).


----------



## ARF (May 8, 2020)

I believe the boards makers will give support for Ryzen 4000 on the X470 and B450 (MAX) boards, too:








deksman2 said:


> AMD's excuse on ROM chip size being insufficient on older motherboards does NOT appear to be valid:
> 
> Here's a Google DOC comparing ROM chip sizes from B350/X370, B450/X470 and X570 mobos:
> 
> ...



You are right, it probably takes bytes to just add a string to the new CPU part number and the support to be there.


----------



## djisas (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> I have no personal expectations, i only base them on words companies say, i don't make anything up of my own. Getting a 3950X to replace a 3600X isn't an upgrade, it's different CPUs for different uses, someone that buys a 3600X isn't looking for what a 3950X can give him, he's looking for what a 3600X gave him but better.



Basically a 4700 is about it...


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> It's not rubbish at all! That's not my perspective, it's everyone's! It's what AMD made everyone understand with "AM4 support until 2021"
> 
> AMD said AM4 would've been supported until 2021, but again what use could it be if i have to swap my motherboard regardless?


as previously stated, see my other posts ,im not headbutting this wall all day its boring, we dissagree , goodbye.

your on an i7 2600k you will have to swap your motherboard anyway. definitely, and ill let you into some advice I learned.

no matter what anyone says support past 1 year is not guaranteed EVER ITS DOWN TO THE OEM BOARDMAKER many of whom dont give the slightest of shits because they make money on NEW boards, support for upgrades beyond 2-3 years is exceptionally rare.<  those are facts with no proof too.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> It's not rubbish at all! That's not my perspective, it's everyone's! It's what AMD made everyone understand with "AM4 support until 2021"
> 
> AMD said AM4 would've been supported until 2021, but again what use could it be if i have to swap my motherboard regardless?


Please see this post.








						AMD B550 Chipset Detailed, It's Ready for Zen 3, Older AM4 Motherboards not Compatible
					

Why is it that everyone treats AMD with a double standard?  Nvidia jacks up prices on RTX, that's ok, but when AMD prices Navi similarly for similar performance, everyone gets hysterical because I guess they have an expectation that AMD, and only AMD, should sell them whatever they want dirt...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## ruff0r (May 8, 2020)

Melvis said:


> Id be lying if I said I wasn't a bit pissed off as I bought my X470 motherboard for exactly that reason for been able to upgrade to a 4000 series CPU in the future and this Motherboard wasn't cheap! If this does end up to be true then its not to bad as I can jump to a 3950X which from the 2700X is a good upgrade but still.....this wasnt the initial plan and If I knew this was going to be the case I would of jumped onto Ryzen earlier.....
> 
> The part thats even worse is I have built many clients Computers all mainly on the B450 motherboards and saying to all my clients you be fine all the way through till the end of 2020, got yrs of upgrades to choose from, now I look like a total lair!
> 
> ...


EXACTLY what i did with my friends, myself and my clients too... this makes me really angry.
I really hope some boards will be supported for the 4000 series.


----------



## droopyRO (May 8, 2020)

HTC said:


> Wasn't aware X370's didn't support Ryzen 3000 series processors:


I had to google it, but it depends on the mobo, some do have support for 3xxx CPUs https://www.asrock.com/mb/amd/x370 taichi/index.asp#CPU


----------



## oxidized (May 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> as previously stated, see my other posts ,im not headbutting this wall all day its boring, we dissagree , goodbye.
> 
> your on an i7 2600k you will have to swap your motherboard anyway. definitely, and ill let you into some advice I learned.
> 
> no matter what anyone says support past 1 year is not guaranteed EVER ITS DOWN TO THE OEM BOARDMAKER many of whom dont give the slightest of shits because they make money on NEW boards, support for upgrades beyond 2-3 years is exceptionally rare.<  those are facts with no proof too.



Yes i already said that i'd have to swap motherboard anyway, i already said in a previous post why i'm complaining about this, besides the fact i recommended AMD in countless PC configs i made for people in these years, and who bought the crap 1000 series, might be left with a fistful of nothing and will have to swap everything, despite they bought 300 or 400 series.

So tell me why state you plan to support AM4 until 2021 in consumer addressed events, because i still haven't received an answer.




TheLostSwede said:


> Please see this post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Saw it, and again if they come out and they're perfectly compatible it'll be best for everyone, but for now facts are telling us we might not see compatibility for 4000 series on <500 series motherboards


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 8, 2020)

From what I've managed to dig out, it seems like there won't be any 4000-series CPU support on older boards, as AMD doesn't allow the board makers to enable it. This is still preliminary information, but it's what AMD has informed the board makers, so far. Not sure if this applies to APUs as well.



oxidized said:


> Saw it, and again if they come out and they're perfectly compatible it'll be best for everyone, but for now facts are telling us we might not see compatibility for 4000 series on <500 series motherboards


That was linked to the wrong post initially, see the corrected one above.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> Yes i already said that i'd have to swap motherboard anyway, i already said in a previous post why i'm complaining about this, besides the fact i recommended AMD in countless PC configs i made for people in these years, and who bought the crap 1000 series, might be left with a fistful of nothing and will have to swap everything, despite they bought 300 or 400 series.
> 
> *So tell me why state you plan to support AM4 until 2021 in consumer addressed events, because i still haven't received an answer.*
> 
> ...


They are supporting the socket, AM4 is a socket nothing more never was.

You advised people wrong, send them my way next time I'm not deluded, I read information better.

We all here had these kind of arguments when x570 came out and x470 became the poor cousin in support terms a year ago.


----------



## HTC (May 8, 2020)

droopyRO said:


> I had to google it, but it depends on the mobo, some do have support for 3xxx CPUs https://www.asrock.com/mb/amd/x370 taichi/index.asp#CPU



You missed the point: there are those running Ryzen 3900X CPUs even with B350 / X370 boards, even though that slide says they don't support it.

As such, just because the slide says Ryzen 4000 series CPUs won't work in X370 / X470 boards doesn't necessarily mean they won't actually work.


----------



## oxidized (May 8, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> From what I've managed to dig out, it seems like there won't be any 4000-series CPU support on older boards, as AMD doesn't allow the board makers to enable it. This is still preliminary information, but it's what AMD has informed the board makers, so far. Not sure if this applies to APUs as well.
> 
> 
> That was linked to the wrong post initially, see the corrected one above.



I seriously hope you're wrong because that would be pretty bad for consumers and for AMD image. I saw that post too, but again AM4 compatibility means nothing if even 1 out of 4 series of CPU required you to swap motherboard,  and it's not like writing "subject to modifications" is going to save you somehow, you're only partially covering your ass legally from class actions and such, but not from false advertisement even if you state that it could get modified at some point


theoneandonlymrk said:


> They are supporting the socket, AM4 is a socket nothing more never was.
> 
> You advised people wrong, send them my way next time I'm not deluded, I read information better.



AGAIN SOCKET COMPATIBILITY IS USELESS IF I NEED TO SWAP MY MOTHERBOARD ANYWAY

No i advised people correctly, because i AMD said "upgrade your processor without buying a new motherboard" and that's exactly my point, NOT needing to swap motherboards.


----------



## Tsukiyomi91 (May 8, 2020)

Big news for me.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> I seriously hope you're wrong because that would be pretty bad for consumers and for AMD image. I saw that post too, but again AM4 compatibility means nothing if even 1 out of 4 series of CPU required you to swap motherboard,  and it's not like writing "subject to modifications" is going to save you somehow, you're only partially covering your ass legally from class actions and such, but not from false advertisement even if you state that it could get modified at some point



Well, this is what I got from two people that I know. whom both work at motherboard makers. Take it for what it is at this point, early information, but it seems like AMD has decided to make a break here, as per their blog post.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> I seriously hope you're wrong because that would be pretty bad for consumers and for AMD image. I saw that post too, but again AM4 compatibility means nothing if even 1 out of 4 series of CPU required you to swap motherboard,  and it's not like writing "subject to modifications" is going to save you somehow, you're only partially covering your ass legally from class actions and such, but not from false advertisement even if you state that it could get modified at some point
> 
> 
> AGAIN SOCKET COMPATIBILITY IS USELESS IF I NEED TO SWAP MY MOTHERBOARD ANYWAY
> ...


Then you based your advice on shit information.

If you're advising people to put Ryzen 4000 in anything below x570 they don't get all the features they paid for.

Making your advice shit regardless of anything else.

No one today is making a motherboard that will actually see three generations of CPU.

I see your point, it was always delusional, anyone working on and with PC these last 30 year's could have told you bios updates dry up after a year on most motherboards.

They could have also pointed to history where the same fucking socket has been used for years without inter chip support.

So this new paradigm you thought was happening, never was.

It was an interpretation error by you.

Deal with it.


----------



## ARF (May 8, 2020)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> Big news for me.




Pretty shocking and scandalous.
Might make people so frustrated, that the Intel sales explode.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

ARF said:


> Pretty shocking and scandalous.
> Might make people so frustrated, that the Intel sales explode.


Probably not those customers won't be blind to the price.


----------



## bug (May 8, 2020)

Turmania said:


> I do not mind if both AMD and Intel releases a new motherboard with every genaration of cpu released as long as the new cpu's are backwards compatible with the older in the same architecture family of motherboards.If they change the architecture of a cpu yeah i agree on new socket and compatibility changes.  Both Intel and AMD are doing it. Intel for this tenth gen should not have done it as well or at least release it but let it be compatible with z390 and etc. In short, they so it and getaway with it.none of them are your friends,there is no need for brand royalty unless you are on their share holders.


And that's a reasonable expectation on the surface.
But when you really think about it, even adding a couple more cores, without changing the architecture, means different current requirements. You can artificially limit your new CPU a little so that it fits the existing socket/VRMs, but if you have to limit more than "a little", you're better off redesigning the motherboard.


----------



## oxidized (May 8, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Well, this is what I got from two people that I know. whom both work at motherboard makers. Take it for what it is at this point, early information, but it seems like AMD has decided to make a break here, as per their blog post.



Well that's pretty bad, but whatever, they decided to strong-arm their partners with the worst thing they could.



theoneandonlymrk said:


> Then you based your advice on shit information.
> 
> If you're advising people to put Ryzen 4000 in anything below x570 they don't get all the features they paid for.
> 
> ...



Information given by AMD itself, features such as? pcie 4? Useless for pretty much everyone as of now, and surely useless for those people i'm talking about.

So my information is shit but your 
_"No one today is making a motherboard that will actually see three generations of CPUs"  _
or_ 
"I see your point, it was always delusional, anyone working on and with PC these last 30 year's could have told you bios updates dry up after a year on most motherboards." 
or  
"They could have also pointed to history where the same fucking socket has been used for years without inter chip support."_

Is somehow good information and based on something solid, well then i guess i had it all wrong from the beginning


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> Well that's pretty bad, but whatever, they decided to strong-arm their partners with the worst thing they could.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes it's based on the reality the last 30 year's passed us not 10 letters on one slide with subject to change at the bottom like yours.

Incidentally every tech pr disclosure carries those same statements.

Subject to change.

It's not My fault your just fresh out the womb.

Love how you marginalised pciex4 to something no one needs yet everyone needs an upgrade path to something most keep for five years.

If I buy for five years I don't get something already out and two years old.

Oh and read the f up am5, socket 1700 ,pciex5 and ddr5.

Mean no one is getting three generations out of a board they buy now, simples.

Told ya it's about interpretation.


----------



## Countryside (May 8, 2020)

Please interpret this if i buy an B550 motherboard what do i do with my 2600x


----------



## oxidized (May 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Yes it's based on the reality the last 30 year's passed us not 10 letters on one slide with subject to change at the bottom like yours.
> 
> Incidentally every tech pr disclosure carries those same statements.
> 
> ...



I might not be as experienced as you are, but i have my 15 years of experience, and what you're saying doesn't stand, because doesn't matter how it was before, what matters is what companies say, pcie 4 is kinda useless now yes because you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between an nvme ssd running on pcie3 and one running on pcie4 as of now, since speeds are not that different on ssds at the moment, besides past a certain point i challenge you to see the difference anyway. There's no interpretation here, there's being backstabbed and not being backstabbed.


----------



## deksman2 (May 8, 2020)

To be fair, Intel has been forcing users to upgrade their motherboards with practically every new CPU generation.

AMD on the other hand provided MUCH greater flexibility and upgrade paths - which is how it should be in the first place.
So, for the most part, users with B350/X370 mobos can still mostly upgrade to Zen 2... which is quite great.

That said, in the past, new CPU support was always up to the OEM's (mobo manufacturers)... that is to say, AMD would release the microcode update, but it was up to OEM's whether or not to implement it for their BIOS - so it was never a guarantee.

This time for some reason, its AMD itself that won't include support for Zen 3 on older motherboards... which quite honestly doesn't make much sense because Zen 3 is the last iteration supported by AM4.
Seems very odd to force users to upgrade to a X550/X570 mobo just for AM4 'end of life' - of course, there would be users who would buy the newest mobos even if older ones included BIOS updates for Zen 3, but it just seems very anti-AMD to do something like this.

Mind you, AMD is just a corporation that wants to make money, so from that point of view it DOES make sense, but they also repeatedly said that users won't have to bother with mobo replacements.

As I explained before, the ROM chip bios sizes 'excuse' doesn't really fly for AMD seeing how at least several X570 mobos come with also 16MB of ROM chip (and AMD said that ALL X570 and B550 will be supported).
That means that 16MB ROM chips (which most of the B350/X370 and B450/X470 come with) is not a barrier for Zen 3.
If there are limitations to how big the microcode is, then have mobo OEM's downgrade the UEFI graphics to something less space demanding like they did just before Zen 2 was released, and possibly remove Zen 1 microcode from the new bios (or just remove a few of them).


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> I might not be as experienced as you are, but i have my 15 years of experience, and what you're saying doesn't stand, because doesn't matter how it was before, what matters is what companies say, pcie 4 is kinda useless now yes because you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between an nvme ssd running on pcie3 and one running on pcie4 as of now, since speeds are not that different on ssds at the moment, besides past a certain point i challenge you to see the difference anyway. There's no interpretation here, there's being backstabbed and not being backstabbed.


Does it not, give an example of a platform that mapped out it's support going forward.

Forget four years just show me any pc platform wherein on release they told you what and when you could upgrade and to what.

In the last 15 year's

Then try and find one with no subject to change notification.

That should keep you busy for the next 15 year's.

Backstabbing haha , your being dramatic.

It does matter what went before, it lead to this.
Technology evolves it rarely explodes into being.

Your picking and choosing what matters now you a guy with no coin in the debate believe that you know better than AMD.

Could AMD have been clearer, yes their pr team is a bit shit, like their marketing team.

Did they misslead, only if you glazed over the details and got consumed by your own wishes.

10 letters on a slide was enough for you to make up your mind, others will be similar, it will cause uppsett that I understand and agree with.

But regardless of how butt hurt I ,you and others feel ,We then were all mistaken not lied too or backstabbed just mistaken.


----------



## oxidized (May 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Does it not, give an example of a platform that mapped out it's support going forward.
> 
> Forget four years just show me any pc platform wherein on release they told you what and when you could upgrade and to what.
> 
> ...



I don't care if nobody has done it before, they say they do it, i expect them to do it, end of story, it's as simple as that.

Mistaken because they mislead anyone with that touting, they could've been much clearer on the matter or just shut their mouth on AM4 compatibility. So yeah, still backstabbed


----------



## Sunny and 75 (May 8, 2020)

Watch out, for the devil is in the detail. "Subject to future roadmap modifications". So they kept their promise, sort of!


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> I don't care if nobody has done it before, they say they do it, i expect them to do it, end of story, it's as simple as that.
> 
> Mistaken because they mislead anyone with that touting, they could've been much clearer on the matter or just shut their mouth on AM4 compatibility. So yeah, still backstabbed


So your beyond reason.

Beyond finding proof to back your claims.

And beyond any convincing otherwise.

All while owning an Intel platform.

And suggesting this has affected you somehow.


You have no chance of convincing me your right to be butt hurt.


So based on that , crack on, goodbye, and if you keep pulling me out for quotes you will be on ignore before this day is done.


----------



## oxidized (May 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> So your beyond reason.
> 
> Beyond finding proof to back your claims.
> 
> ...



What more proof do you need besides AM4 support until 2020 (2021) and "upgrade your processor without buying a new motherboard", i don't want to convince you of anything really, i just enjoy pissing off fanboys at the point they either stop posting or worse block me, because that's anything any fanboy deserve. So please do block me i'll return the favor


----------



## HD64G (May 8, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> huh? MSI Z490 mobo I just pre-ordered is $169.99 and the CPU will be around $400-500 which various version I get, hoping the non-integrated graphics variant is a touch cheaper.
> 
> 
> 
> that's shady as crap wording. lol  intel and amd are the same, there is no point in brand loyalty its capitalism.  neither of these companies care about you. so im picking the best performance for only 5% more money. later homies.


Since you have gone ultra provocative, let's see which vendors will dare not update their X470/B450 boards with Zen3 updated UEFIs (I predict none will refuse to do so) and talk again then. For now, have fun with your insecure nuclear reactor in the summer heat.


----------



## bug (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> What more proof do you need besides AM4 support until 2020 (2021) and "upgrade your processor without buying a new motherboard", i don't want to convince you of anything really, i just enjoy pissing off fanboys at the point they either stop posting or worse block me, because that's anything any fanboy deserve. So please do block me i'll return the favor


TBH AM4 is still with us into 2021. And AMD being unable to predict their every SKU 2-3 years ago was mostly expected. When they said they will keep forward compatibility, I understood that as a best effort. But in the absence of further clarification, I was sure some will take that as gospel (and that was the intended effect, otherwise AMD would have nuanced their statements then and there).

The real kicker for me is people clinging on minute differences to paint Intel as evil and AMD as a savior. Well, newsflash, they're both in the business of selling you products. That's what they'll do. When you're the underdog, of course you're all honey, open and stuff. And when you're top dog, you'll take some liberties. Case in point: AMD crushed Intel in HEDT. Did they make HEDT chips $200 and available to everyone? No, they priced Threadrippers well above what Intel ever charged for their HEDT chips. AMD gained some momentum on the desktop, they hit you with the pricey X570 and are now starting to limit support for some chips.

Is AMD evil for doing that? Hell, no. But if you don't wake up and smell the roses, you will keep being surprised by decisions like this one.

Take a step back and look at the big picture: you can buy a lot more CPU HP for $1 than you ever could, whether you are forced to upgrade the motherboard or not.


----------



## TheoneandonlyMrK (May 8, 2020)

oxidized said:


> What more proof do you need besides AM4 support until 2020 (2021) and "upgrade your processor without buying a new motherboard",* i don't want to convince you of anything really, i just enjoy pissing off fanboys at the point they either stop posting or worse block me, because that's anything any fanboy deserve.* So please do block me i'll return the favor


Which is exactly why I am arguing with you, your a troll and don't know it.

Miss information from the likes of you gets taken by others as truth, it isn't.


----------



## ARF (May 8, 2020)

> Is AMD evil for doing that?




Evil is when you throw competition out of the market, like Intel and Nvidia did with the MOAP and Nvidia GeForce Partner Program.
Evil is when you intentionally mislead the market and confuse the consumers that your products are better when they have always been inferior.

It's like black magic and it's been working for decades, and no one has woken up yet.

What AMD does is just shooting itself in the feet


----------



## oxidized (May 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Which is exactly why I am arguing with you, your a troll and don't know it.
> 
> Miss information from the likes of you gets taken by others as truth, it isn't.



I'm no troll and mine is no misinformation.


----------



## JMccovery (May 8, 2020)

PYRO1125 said:


> AsRock x470:
> ------------------
> - 16 Power Phase design
> - Capable of providing extra 300W for CPU
> ...



You'd have a point if ASRock X570 boards had the exact same CPU support like their X470 ones.

More than likely the collective AGESA firmware for Ryzen 3000 and 4000 CPUs with full board features doesn't leave enough room for Ryzen 1000 and 2000 support.

As for power phases, you can have fewer, but more efficient phases.


----------



## ERazer (May 8, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> Exactly, so I will pay 5% more and get max performance with z490 and ampere. and since navi 2 prob won't overclock stably similar to navi, once overclocked a 2070 super matches a 2080 super easily. ampere will prob oc very well as well, so i will oc a 3080 and obliterate navi 2. as history as shown this is almost every recent generation, i doubt it changes.


cmon now dont side track, its all about fps why not get 3080ti or new titan?


----------



## B-Real (May 8, 2020)

Last round only Coffee Lake was compatible with the latest mobo gen. Now for Comet Lake, you again need new mobos. And to quote from TPU's news:

"and in many cases, pricier than even AMD X570 chipset ones"



the54thvoid said:


> Wait? No. So my planned 3 generation CPU path on one, original mobo is shafted? I'm pretty sure it was never promised but I'm certain future upgrade on the old X370 was spoken on for Zen 3?
> 
> If true, this sucks big time.


I think only the same socket was promised until 2020 and it's true. And if you check the charts, there is no Zen 2 compabitility with the B350 and X370 yet you can get BIOS updates for certain B350/X370 boards so it can run Zen2 CPUs. I'm quite sure this will be the same for Zen3: some B450/X470 will get updates to run Zen3 CPUs. And you will probably get series6 mobos for the Zen3 CPUs so at least 2 compatible mobo gens are guaranteed.


----------



## kapone32 (May 8, 2020)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Individual issues are not the sole remit of AMD but you can if it makes you feel good imply that one equals everyone.
> 
> As for your friends they might want to take their pc to the shop for a proper setup .


 Or use RAM on the QVL of their motherboard.


----------



## Turmania (May 8, 2020)

PR disaster for AMD just when they are about to do a coupe de grace on Intel, they shoot themselves in the foot.


----------



## kapone32 (May 8, 2020)

klf said:


> haha like my x399 and 2990WX-2500 usd become dead platform after just one year,,, when i complain on that, reddit amd ban me for this and all amd fans say me - " but ist different than new tr40 chipset" .... aaand now when they must eat salt from amd,, they sttart whinning ...



Don't worry the 3960x will drop in price then you can upgrade to TRX40 and laugh at everyone else who won't have 88 lanes of PCIe 4.0 glory.


----------



## windwhirl (May 8, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> Or use RAM on the QVL of their motherboard.



Depending on your location, finding RAM that is listed on the QVL sometimes is a pain... I'd know, I went through that.


----------



## Durvelle27 (May 8, 2020)

I can't believe so many people are whining about this

I don't see anything wrong with upgrading boards 

My B350 has served its time with a 1700X upto the 3900X no complaints 

And people commenting about the 5 series using the same size BIOs chip yadada

It clearly states with the B550/X570 it will not support older Athlons or APUs and possibly won't even support Ryzen 1000 or 2000 to open room up for Ryzen 3000 and Ryzen 4000

Hell my B350 when i updated the BIOs for Ryzen 3000 literally lost support for Athlons and non ryzen APUs


----------



## bug (May 8, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> I can't believe so many people are whining about this
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with upgrading boards
> 
> ...


People thought that if AM4 remains unchanged, all boards will run all CPUs. And now they discover they were wrong. Since admitting you were wrong is hard, they vent here instead.
As for the Ryzen 1000 and 2000, it says pretty clear in the slides they're a no go on B550.


----------



## R-T-B (May 8, 2020)

djisas said:


> Good luck spending 500€ for 10fps...



In GPU land it's not so much about FPS as Navi just being a stability mess.


----------



## PYRO1125 (May 8, 2020)

JMccovery said:


> You'd have a point if ASRock X570 boards had the exact same CPU support like their X470 ones.
> 
> More than likely the collective AGESA firmware for Ryzen 3000 and 4000 CPUs with full board features doesn't leave enough room for Ryzen 1000 and 2000 support.
> 
> As for power phases, you can have fewer, but more efficient phases.


Hmm, I would not mind if the vendors omit 1000 and 2000 series CPUs for support of Zen3 if that would be the case.  That could well indeed work 

Worst case scenario I save a bit of my stimulus money for a new board that will support Zen3, will probably put $200 aside.


----------



## mikmak (May 8, 2020)

Hi,
If the issue is only a mere bios capacity to store the asic code for the new 4000 processors I hope that few motherboards manufacturers will opt to throw away the support for some old cpu's in favor of the new ones. But if there is something else that can prevent the new agesa code to run correctly on x470 and b450 boards then I guess there will not be so much to do.


----------



## dyonoctis (May 9, 2020)

oxidized said:


> I might not be as experienced as you are, but i have my 15 years of experience, and what you're saying doesn't stand, because doesn't matter how it was before, what matters is what companies say, pcie 4 is kinda useless now yes because you wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between an nvme ssd running on pcie3 and one running on pcie4 as of now, since speeds are not that different on ssds at the moment, besides past a certain point i challenge you to see the difference anyway. There's no interpretation here, there's being backstabbed and not being backstabbed.



Just a reminders that even those 3 gen of cpu support on AM4 weren't easy peazy. X370/B350 were marked up as "selective compatibility" wich was already a bad sign.





next : The introduction Of Ryzen 3000 was a pain  even with the 400 motherbaord : AMD went as far as to lend you free of charge a cpu so that you could update your bios if you bought a 400 with an old Bios. They'll probably have to do it again for Zen3 on 500 chipsets.




 For 3 gen they went out of their way to make the dream happen. Does is it suck that couldn't make it happen till the end ? Yes. Did they marketed the AM4 support  too heavily even though they weren't 100% sure about it ? Yes. But when you are building PC's, anything with a * or ² should give you pause. You weren't backstabbed, You were just too overeager. You told your client/friends that something was 100% guaranteed, when the company actually said "we'll try, but we are not sure about it". 

Glossing over details in marketing isn't new, it sucks, but we need to buy things while keeping that in mind.


----------



## kapone32 (May 9, 2020)

mikmak said:


> Hi,
> If the issue is only a mere bios capacity to store the asic code for the new 4000 processors I hope that few motherboards manufacturers will opt to throw away the support for some old cpu's in favor of the new ones. But if there is something else that can prevent the new agesa code to run correctly on x470 and b450 boards then I guess there will not be so much to do.


 
Only the best X370 and X470 boards in terms of VRM supported the 3000 series CPUs. The reason that The 3100 or 3300 will have no support for B450 lies in the fact that not just the CPU but the boards must also be PCIe 4.0 wired. In not just the top M2 but also (selectively) The top 2 x16 slots will run at PCIe 4.0x8. The problem with some boards are the BIOS chips cannot hold a larger BIOS than they were designed for. It is also obvious from the temps that these chips produce a ton of heat. Just imagine running this on the As Rock B350 Pro or the Gigabyte B450M-DS3H. Both of those boards are great for APUs but I could not see a 2700 or above being stable OC on either of those boards. There is also the fact that board manufacturers and indeed AMD are in this to make money. For me X670 must have more I/O whether it is Thunderbolt or even as B550 does allow for PCIe 3.0 (some B550 boards have more storage support than some X570). 

I am on X399 and I am not going to lie. I was a little put off that the TRX40 socket is the exact same in terms of pin layout wiht no support for my CPU, but PCIe 4.0 makes that a no go. When I thought further on it though it allowed for several things 

A. TRX40 made it possible to purchase a 2920x for $389 Canadian That is about $278 US.
B. The TRX40 boards are not overpriced for what you get. The top TRX40 board is about $1100 (Asus Zenith Extreme) and has 5 NVME PCIe 4.0 all capable of RAID 0 (without using any of the PCIe slots).
C. The 3960X will come down in price. It is the CPU I want to move to from my 2920X. All of my current cooling equipment is also fully compatible.

Having said all of that I am still going to build a B550 based PC (I hope the Strix board is not too expensive) and as I have said before get either one of the 3100 or 3300 (I have an Eisbear unit that just needs a rad to tame the heat) with a 5500XT Multi GPU array (In terms of Gaming, yes there are not a lot of games that support multi gpu) as Total War Warhammer2 supports Multi GPU in DX11 or 12 and is currently my favourite game to play I will see some wonderful FPS. The funny thing is the game I am playing the most right now (Xcom2) fully supports Multi GPU and I see over 180 FPS average at 4K.


----------



## hat (May 9, 2020)

What's so wrong with expecting AMD to do what they said? Almost every time Intel releases a new CPU: LOL new motherboard required again! AMD does it when they explicitly said they wouldn't* and it's okay? I have more of an issue with AMD screwing up compatibility than Intel requiring new boards all the time. At least with Intel, nobody bought a kickass motherboard expecting to use it in the future, only to get shafted by an asterisk. Who cares if the new chip physically fits in the same board if it doesn't boot? I need a functional computer, not a Lego set.

It seems neither one is better than the other in the grand scheme of things. Everybody sucks.


----------



## Durvelle27 (May 9, 2020)

kapone32 said:


> Only the best X370 and X470 boards in terms of VRM supported the 3000 series CPUs. The reason that The 3100 or 3300 will have no support for B450 lies in the fact that not just the CPU but the boards must also be PCIe 4.0 wired. In not just the top M2 but also (selectively) The top 2 x16 slots will run at PCIe 4.0x8. The problem with some boards are the BIOS chips cannot hold a larger BIOS than they were designed for. It is also obvious from the temps that these chips produce a ton of heat. Just imagine running this on the As Rock B350 Pro or the Gigabyte B450M-DS3H. Both of those boards are great for APUs but I could not see a 2700 or above being stable OC on either of those boards. There is also the fact that board manufacturers and indeed AMD are in this to make money. For me X670 must have more I/O whether it is Thunderbolt or even as B550 does allow for PCIe 3.0 (some B550 boards have more storage support than some X570).
> 
> I am on X399 and I am not going to lie. I was a little put off that the TRX40 socket is the exact same in terms of pin layout wiht no support for my CPU, but PCIe 4.0 makes that a no go. When I thought further on it though it allowed for several things
> 
> ...


The first part of the paragraph i don't believe. As i have a B350 board and it supports the 3100 and 3300X. They are Zen 2 based not Zen 3 so B450 should support them.



hat said:


> What's so wrong with expecting AMD to do what they said? Almost every time Intel releases a new CPU: LOL new motherboard required again! AMD does it when they explicitly said they wouldn't* and it's okay? I have more of an issue with AMD screwing up compatibility than Intel requiring new boards all the time. At least with Intel, nobody bought a kickass motherboard expecting to use it in the future, only to get shafted by an asterisk. Who cares if the new chip physically fits in the same board if it doesn't boot? I need a functional computer, not a Lego set.
> 
> It seems neither one is better than the other in the grand scheme of things. Everybody sucks.


Except AMD is doing what they stated. I don't see why people don't understand that. AMD stated AM4 support until 2020. They never stated chipset compatibility not once. And last i checked X570 and B550 are AM4


----------



## hat (May 9, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> Except AMD is doing what they stated. I don't see why people don't understand that. AMD stated AM4 support until 2020. They never stated chipset compatibility not once. And last i checked X570 and B550 are AM4



What else would you expect somebody to think upon reading "AM4 support through 2020"? You're basically getting a weaselly marketing guy going: Weeeeeeeeell... _technically_ this new chip still _physically fits_ in socket AM4... so it's supported! Too bad it doesn't boot... Like I said, I need a functional computer, not a Lego set.

I'm only asking people on the other side of the argument to pause for a moment and understand why people like me and oxidized might be upset by this. AMD stated AM4 support until 2020. Well, it's 2020, and here we are getting new AM4 chips that aren't compatible with the AM4 motherboards we may have bought, recommended or even built for others, with "support until 2020" likely playing a factor in the purchasing decision. Sneaking around the "AM4 support until 2020" statement with multiple chipsets that still use AM4, but require a new motherboard anyway, is a shady move, and quite frankly it's a fucked up maneuver. 

On the other hand, using the same socket for a long time, if you can, makes a lot of sense. If you can use the same physical socket, you don't need to re-design the socket, CPU package, and go through all that re-tooling all the time. It's a lot more economical than Intel spitting out a new socket every year or two with minor changes. As a manufacturer, you can still add new features with new chipsets and new motherboards, but you'll save a few by not having to design and manufacture new CPU sockets as well. Just don't try to advertise it as "compatible" to the masses when compatibility goes farther than things physically fitting together to have a working computer that actually boots.


----------



## Melvis (May 9, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> I can't believe so many people are whining about this
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with upgrading boards



Do you see why now?








						Buy MSI X570 Gaming Pro Carbon WiFi Motherboard [MPG-X570-GAMING-PRO-CARBON-WIFI] | PC Case Gear Australia
					

MSI X570 Gaming Pro Carbon WiFi Motherboard – PC Case Gear – Australia’s Premier Online PC Store.




					www.pccasegear.com
				






Durvelle27 said:


> It clearly states with the B550/X570 it will not support older Athlons or APUs and possibly won't even support Ryzen 1000 or 2000 to open room up for Ryzen 3000 and Ryzen 4000
> 
> Hell my B350 when i updated the BIOs for Ryzen 3000 literally lost support for Athlons and non ryzen APUs



and? So what? thats a good thing! your not going to update your BIOS To run an older CPU now are you? so just do the same for the 4000series, simple.


----------



## TheinsanegamerN (May 9, 2020)

bug said:


> People thought that if AM4 remains unchanged, all boards will run all CPUs. And now they discover they were wrong. Since admitting you were wrong is hard, they vent here instead.
> As for the Ryzen 1000 and 2000, it says pretty clear in the slides they're a no go on B550.


When you market something as being supported through 2020 VS your competitor that mandates new mobos every other release, and then renig on that promise, your customer base gets pissed.

Whowuddathunkit? Almost like deceptive marketing NEVER goes over well, no matter how many times it's tried.


----------



## ahenriquedsj (May 9, 2020)

Lucky I didn't buy b450.

I will wait for socket AM5 or something relevant from intel.

Even because these B550s should stay for a year until the new AM5 socket from AMD, correct?


----------



## rvalencia (May 9, 2020)

dyonoctis said:


> Just a reminders that even those 3 gen of cpu support on AM4 weren't easy peazy. X370/B350 were marked up as "selective compatibility" wich was already a bad sign.
> View attachment 154394
> 
> next : The introduction Of Ryzen 3000 was a pain  even with the 400 motherbaord : AMD went as far as to lend you free of charge a cpu so that you could update your bios if you bought a 400 with an old Bios. They'll probably have to do it again for Zen3 on 500 chipsets.
> ...


My ASUS ROG X570 Strix can update the BIOS without the CPU.


----------



## R0H1T (May 9, 2020)

TheinsanegamerN said:


> When you market something as being supported through 2020 VS your competitor that mandates new mobos every other release, and then* renig on that promise, your customer base gets pissed*.
> 
> Whowuddathunkit? Almost like* deceptive marketing *NEVER goes over well, no matter how many times it's tried.


Nope they said socket compatibility, not chipset. I know if I'd owned a (relatively) brand new x4xx board I'd be pissed too. But again there are too many variables here that you're ignoring, namely 16 cores, PCIe 4.0 & even *IF or memory support*.

You do realize that with the same chipset AMD & board partners will need to ensure an updated design (zen3) works just as well on an older board physically incapable of matching the newer chipsets. Now I agree with the somewhat deceptive marketing part but any comparisons with Intel are just


----------



## dyonoctis (May 9, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> My ASUS ROG X570 Strix can update the BIOS without the CPU.


You can, but what about the other ? My rog Strix B350 cannot. If motherboard makers decided to make it a standard, that wouldn't be an issue, but thats' not the case


----------



## sepheronx (May 9, 2020)

ahenriquedsj said:


> Lucky I didn't buy b450.
> 
> I will wait for socket AM5 or something relevant from intel.
> 
> Even because these B550s should stay for a year until the new AM4 socket from AMD, correct?



I'm thinking same thing. From what we gathered the 4000 was initially thought to be last of the AM4 socket and something newer will shine when DDR5 takes off.  I think I'll hold onto my Dell T3500 and just pay to expand its performance a bit (better ram, new GPU, etc) till new processors with DDR5 compatibility is released


----------



## kapone32 (May 9, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> The first part of the paragraph i don't believe. As i have a B350 board and it supports the 3100 and 3300X. They are Zen 2 based not Zen 3 so B450 should support them.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification I thought otherwise. So it will be the upcoming chips that will not work with B350 and 450 then? If that is the case then it doesn't matter when I get the 3100 or 3300 then as I have no intention of getting a X570 board.


----------



## Makaveli (May 9, 2020)

lynx29 said:


> Luckily I am in the refund window still thanks to extensions. I will be refunding my tomahawk max now and waiting for B550, wow this is a shitty move, everyone told me it was a safe move to go from 3600 to 4800x on tomahawk max b450.



Everyone told you this that was not AMD.

There was no official statement from AMD next time wait for an official source.



dyonoctis said:


> Haha. I don't know why AMD couldn't annouce that sooner. Now we are having lots of knee jerk reaction from people feeling betrayed, and AMD went back to being a trash company with uncompetitive product. The little bit of faith that they painfully managed to get from some people is now gone forever. Ah well, they still managed to shook intel enough to make them react.
> 
> As usual, YMMV, but I never had any stability issues with my b350/1700x with 3000mhz memory. Some people are acting as if they really were interested in AM4, when they seemed to had a preference for Intel all along, and they are now rubbing it in the face of those who prefered AMD. "Now we are the one with an uppgrade path"



The reason for that is there are alot of pretenders on this thread that are actually intel fanboys.



Cybrshrk said:


> No but I (more than likely) have support for it if I decide to upgrade to a later cpu (a move that amd is now missing out on).



AMD isn't going to notice anything from you going with an Intel build? Why you are just one person.

Don't forget to close the door on your way out.


----------



## PYRO1125 (May 9, 2020)

I was thinking, now I have 3 options for me. One: buy the 3900x or 3950x for the final upgrade for my x470 once the prices really come down. Two: buy a x570 or b550 board and a new 4000 series cpu. And finally three: go back to Intel LOL. I mean I like both cpu companies I had my 3770k from 2012-2018 then went to AMD and got a 2700x now using a 3700x.  I will wait and see once AMD launches their zen3 cpus and see what Intel has. All I need really is a mobo, and CPU. DDR4 works on both platforms so I'm good there , using Flare X 3200mhz CL14.  Either way I'm definitely upgrading something


----------



## oxrufiioxo (May 9, 2020)

Yeah, I don't get all the outrage either.... The i5 is finally going to be good again in 2020 but still cost nearly $300. Ryzen 3000 is still more than most people need especially the 3900X/3950X and if you want Ryzen 4000 pair it with a $130-150 B550 board with a decent vrm and be done with it.

I feel bad for those who assumed support for older chipsets but everyone should know that 3 years out that is going to be subject to change. 


I personally wish we were getting X670 boards also with similar to Z490 vrms and no chipset fan.... Maybe at the very least we will see Refreshed X570 boards.


----------



## medi01 (May 9, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> I don't see anything wrong with upgrading boards



Nor do I.

I do see what is wrong with *deceiving customers*, however.

1) AMD did nothing when partners advertised B450 mainboards as Zen 3 compatible
https://www.msi.com//blog/msis-max-motherboard-lineup
"You want a value-oriented motherboard that’ll support not only the latest AMD releases but will also have you covered for *all future AM4 product releases*."





2) AMD's promise:
https://community.amd.com/community...4-platform-longevity-getting-ryzen-3000-ready
_With the launch of the AM4 platform in 2016, we at AMD made a commitment to maintain and support socket AM4* through 2020*._


----------



## Durvelle27 (May 9, 2020)

medi01 said:


> Nor do I.
> 
> I do see what is wrong with *deceiving customers*, however.
> 
> ...


2.) It clearly states socket AM4 support through 2020. 5 series board is indeed AM4. No where does it say chipset support through 2020


----------



## bug (May 9, 2020)

medi01 said:


> Nor do I.
> 
> I do see what is wrong with *deceiving customers*, however.
> 
> ...


I can see the problem with your first point.
Your second point though, only says AM4 and AM4 will work with Zen3.

It would seem AMD played a fine gaming of being vague as much as possible (as I posted before, probably because they couldn't actually predict the future), leaving partners to take it one step further. Not cool, but since I have this policy of buying what's delivered on purchase day and not promises about the future, I'm not taking much issue with this.


----------



## PYRO1125 (May 9, 2020)

TBH, now that AMD is pretty much back on top (for now) they should have done everything in their power to keep the loyal fan base, which means keeping support for all AM4 sockets. I know a lot are now probably going to either switch sides maybe when AMD and Intel show  what they have, be it Zen3 or whatever Intel has at that time. Me I don't care  As what I stated in my previous post, I like Intel & AMD.


----------



## Makaveli (May 9, 2020)

medi01 said:


> Nor do I.
> 
> I do see what is wrong with *deceiving customers*, however.
> 
> ...



You are on an Intel build how is this even relevant to you?


----------



## Gmr_Chick (May 10, 2020)

Damn, y'all are STILL up in arms over this? AMD has only ever said that the *AM4 SOCKET* will be around through 2020. What's the problem?


----------



## windwhirl (May 10, 2020)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Damn, y'all are STILL up in arms over this? AMD has only ever said that the *AM4 SOCKET* will be around through 2020. What's the problem?



Don't restart this dumpster fire of a debate, please


----------



## Melvis (May 10, 2020)

Im just not a fan of spending $800 on motherboards (X470+X570 of the same model) to get support for a CPU only a yr+ later, when there is no excuse not to be supported on the exact same socket. 

This also applies to all my clients and the majority of AM4 users who all are running on B450 or abouts motherboards, AMD 4000 is basically now DOA for me and the majority of AMD/AM4 owners and my clients, its going to probably sell poorly because of the lack of support honestly, only new system builders will get these new CPU's, most AM4 owners from the past 2.5yrs wont spend the money just to get support for a CPU that is only going to be around for 1yr on a socket thats dead in the same time frame, its just simply not worth it.  

If B550 came out last yr and at an affordable price it might be a bit different but its just to late to the market sadly, and X570 boards here in AUS are bloody expensive!


----------



## Makaveli (May 10, 2020)

Melvis said:


> Im just not a fan of spending $800 on motherboards (X470+X570 of the same model) to get support for a CPU only a yr+ later, when there is no excuse not to be supported on the exact same socket.
> 
> This also applies to all my clients and the majority of AM4 users who all are running on B450 or abouts motherboards, AMD 4000 is basically now DOA for me and the majority of AMD/AM4 owners and my clients, its going to probably sell poorly because of the lack of support honestly, only new system builders will get these new CPU's, most AM4 owners from the past 2.5yrs wont spend the money just to get support for a CPU that is only going to be around for 1yr on a socket thats dead in the same time frame, its just simply not worth it.
> 
> If B550 came out last yr and at an affordable price it might be a bit different but its just to late to the market sadly, and X570 boards here in AUS are bloody expensive!



Easy solution upgrade to Zen 2 or wait until Zen 4 which will be DDR5 and PCIe 5 and a new motherboard anyways.



oxrufiioxo said:


> I personally wish we were getting X670 boards also with similar to Z490 vrms and no chipset fan.... Maybe at the very least we will see Refreshed X570 boards.



I think the chipset fan thing is abit overblown.

My system is very quiet and i've yet to hear it once.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (May 10, 2020)

windwhirl said:


> Don't restart this dumpster fire of a debate, please



Sorry about that, lol. Then again, I've been told I can be a bit of a shit disturber sometimes. Stirring the pot, baby!


----------



## oxrufiioxo (May 10, 2020)

Makaveli said:


> I think the chipset fan thing is abit overblown.
> 
> My system is very quiet and i've yet to hear it once.




I agree neither my Aorus Master/Hero 8 are audible but I would still prefer not having one.


----------



## Durvelle27 (May 10, 2020)

Melvis said:


> Im just not a fan of spending $800 on motherboards (X470+X570 of the same model) to get support for a CPU only a yr+ later, when there is no excuse not to be supported on the exact same socket.
> 
> This also applies to all my clients and the majority of AM4 users who all are running on B450 or abouts motherboards, AMD 4000 is basically now DOA for me and the majority of AMD/AM4 owners and my clients, its going to probably sell poorly because of the lack of support honestly, only new system builders will get these new CPU's, most AM4 owners from the past 2.5yrs wont spend the money just to get support for a CPU that is only going to be around for 1yr on a socket thats dead in the same time frame, its just simply not worth it.
> 
> If B550 came out last yr and at an affordable price it might be a bit different but its just to late to the market sadly, and X570 boards here in AUS are bloody expensive!


I'll definitely be spending money for a new board. $70-$100 for a new board is peanuts. 


I'm positive AMD could care less about all these whiners after 3 years upset over a simple board change.


----------



## Melvis (May 10, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> I'll definitely be spending money for a new board. $70-$100 for a new board is peanuts.
> 
> 
> I'm positive AMD could care less about all these whiners after 3 years upset over a simple board change.



You clearly didnt see my other post did you? $70-100? ......you gotta be joking! The same board as mine but X570 is $450! How the heck is that classed as peanuts? even the lowest end X570 is $300......

Oh your probably right but when sales of the 4000 series are alot less then expected they might start caring more.


----------



## Apocalypsee (May 10, 2020)

Actually I kinda see this is coming since they did this during AM2+/AM3 time where some CPU compatible with some board and not the others. One of the reason why I sold off my 1600+B350 combo last year, if B350 is supported older CPU is going to be discarded from the BIOS just like they removed Bristol Ridge to support new CPU because of BIOS size limitation.

Thing is, this picture is wrong:





You know B350/X370 and even A320 supports Ryzen 3000 series, heck even some reported that X570 mobo supports Ryzen 1000 series. So without jumping to conclusions and argue to no end just wait and see how far this is true. If AMD don't lock it through AGESA I think mobo manufacturer can come out with something.


----------



## Tsukiyomi91 (May 10, 2020)

the problem that AMD is having rn is BIOS ROM limitations. Sure, MSI remedied that with the MAX variant of older boards but even that won't be enough.


----------



## specopsFI (May 10, 2020)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> the problem that AMD is having rn is BIOS ROM limitations. Sure, MSI remedied that with the MAX variant of older boards but even that won't be enough.



That 32MB chip is plenty. In fact, that's as good as any X570 board. And  there are even X570 boards with 16MB chips. So no, that definitely isn't the real reason. AMD just wanted a clear-cut problem for them and MB vendors to solve. In stead of doing the work to serve their current customers, they basically went "screw them, we'll concentrate on future customers in stead". I honestly hope that their current customers make them pay for that. Supporting four generations of CPUs on three generations of MBs is a difficult task for sure, but AMD set up that challenge for themselves so they need to take the flak on not seeing it through. It's all about opportunity costs.


----------



## Prince Valiant (May 10, 2020)

Never mind.


----------



## KLMR (May 10, 2020)

I'm confused with the article's title.

Do B550 and X570 will support at least one "Zen 3" series?  AMD say yes.





						The Exciting Future of AMD Socket AM4
					

In 2016, we made a pretty bold commitment to you: we would continue to support AMD Socket AM4 until 2020. It was a big promise, especially given what people were accustomed to with other platforms. In the four ensuing years, the humble Socket AM4 has been on an incredible trajectory:   4X more...




					community.amd.com
				




So:
*AMD B550 Chipset Detailed, It's Ready for Zen 3, Older AM4 Motherboards not Compatible*

should be something like:
*AMD B550 Chipset Detailed, It's Ready for Zen 3, Older than 5-series AM4 Motherboards not Compatible*


----------



## Countryside (May 10, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> I'll definitely be spending money for a new board. $70-$100 for a new board is peanuts.
> 
> 
> I'm positive AMD could care less about all these whiners after 3 years upset over a simple board change.



Is it really hard to understand the problem here of people who bough an Zen+ which is an 2 year old cpu and now i would like to upgrade my motherboard, lets see the options avilabe at the moment if indeed Zen+ is not supported on b550 then my two options are buy new mobo+cpu or an expensive x570 motherboard.

And the price on good b550 boards will be at least 120+


----------



## Makaveli (May 10, 2020)

Melvis said:


> Oh your probably right but when sales of the 4000 series are alot less then expected they might start caring more.



I do not believe the sales for these will be as slow as you think. Even if everyone in this thread complaining about it switched to intel builds its a drop in the bucket compared to overall numbers.


----------



## Dyatlov A (May 10, 2020)

It is unbeliavable. X470 meant to be compatible. I would have buy otherwise just a cheap motherboard last summer.


----------



## Makaveli (May 10, 2020)

Dyatlov A said:


> It is unbeliavable. X470 meant to be compatible. I would have buy otherwise just a cheap motherboard last summer.



Unless you have an official source from AMD saying so then no.


----------



## medi01 (May 10, 2020)

Makaveli said:


> You are on an Intel build how is this even relevant to you?


So, it needs to touch me personally, for me to judge if something is right or wrong? (it's a rhetorical question)



PYRO1125 said:


> TBH, now that AMD is pretty much back on top (for now) they should have done everything in their power to keep the loyal fan base, which means keeping support for all AM4 sockets.


They are on top only "product portfolio" wise.
It has had an effect in Desktop CPU DIY market, which is less than 20% of all desktop CPUs sold.

AMD is still ridiculously weak in anything that depends on OEM, which is where the money is, *despite having disruptively better product*.
Just imagine what happens to them, when that advantage is gone.


----------



## Makaveli (May 10, 2020)

medi01 said:


> So, it needs to touch me personally, for me to judge if something is right or wrong? (it's a rhetorical question)



Correct why does your opinon matter when you don't even own a AM4 board. The decision made by AMD doesn't affect you at all.

The only users that have a legit bone to pick here are AM4 users on boards that are not supported.


----------



## PYRO1125 (May 10, 2020)

medi01 said:


> So, it needs to touch me personally, for me to judge if something is right or wrong? (it's a rhetorical question)
> 
> 
> They are on top only "product portfolio" wise.
> ...



Your right, I can imagine when that advantage is gone it will be like when Intel launched the core 2 duo after that AMD never recovered until the launch of the Ryzen 1000 series CPU's. That took over 10yrs.


----------



## Pepamami (May 11, 2020)

Dyatlov A said:


> It is unbeliavable. X470 meant to be compatible. I would have buy otherwise just a cheap motherboard last summer.




Relax, its fake news (they dont know what to say about support yet), the slide say about ALL FEATURES OF PROCESSOR (like PCI-E 4.0) NOT processor itself. According to slide: u cant use 3900X with A320, or B350, but u CAN, I bet motherboard makers will add 4000 support.


----------



## Melvis (May 11, 2020)

Makaveli said:


> I do not believe the sales for these will be as slow as you think. Even if everyone in this thread complaining about it switched to intel builds its a drop in the bucket compared to overall numbers.



Im not to sure about that, im sure NEW system builders will jump onto it most likely or from Intel side if there running a 3-5yr old PC then yep but for the 2.5yrs of people that are already on the AM4 platform, no way, 90% will not bother at all to jump onto a new Motherboard with that added expensive cost ontop, its just simply not worth it and there are alot of people on AM4 300-400 series mobos out there.


----------



## rvalencia (May 11, 2020)

dyonoctis said:


> You can, but what about the other ? My rog Strix B350 cannot. If motherboard makers decided to make it a standard, that wouldn't be an issue, but thats' not the case


Buy B550 with PCI-E 4.0 for PEG slot and NVMe. Next-generation game consoles are PCI-E 4.0 based systems.


----------



## Melvis (May 11, 2020)

This is exactly what I mean! Couldnt agree more with this video!


----------



## bug (May 11, 2020)

Melvis said:


> This is exactly what I mean! Couldnt agree more with this video!


Once again: did it read "Ryzen 4000 supported" on the box when you bought it?
Non-existing products are unsupported by default, you cannot blame AMD for your wishful thinking (even if they sorta encouraged it).


----------



## medi01 (May 11, 2020)

Makaveli said:


> Correct why does your opinon matter when you don't even own a AM4 board. The decision made by AMD doesn't affect you at all.
> 
> The only users that have a legit bone to pick here are AM4 users on boards that are not supported.



You don't need to own something from a company, to figure its practices are shitty.
Like in this case, when AMD hinted and explicitly stated something, which it failed to support.

If you have a problem with that, it might help to a bathroom and repeat "it's fine, if people disagree with me" 100 times.


----------



## Octopuss (May 11, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> From what I've been told, there is no X670.
> 
> Also, if those board images are of actual B550 boards, there's going to be sooooooooo much consumer confusion, as half of the slots are never going to be usable, based on the PCIe lane count of the platform. I think this is a poorly done job by the board makers.


What the hell, really? Half the reason I haven't upgraded to Zen2 was this chipset and the fucking fans on it. I hoped whatever refresh might come out, they would design in better to get rid of this.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 11, 2020)

Octopuss said:


> What the hell, really? Half the reason I haven't upgraded to Zen2 was this chipset and the fucking fans on it. I hoped whatever refresh might come out, they would design in better to get rid of this.


It's not a design issue, it's a production node issue if anything. Move to smaller node might solve that, as it should bring the thermals down.


----------



## Makaveli (May 11, 2020)

medi01 said:


> You don't need to own something from a company, to figure its practices are shitty.
> Like in this case, when AMD hinted and explicitly stated something, which it failed to support.
> 
> If you have a problem with that, it might help to a bathroom and repeat "it's fine, if people disagree with me" 100 times.



No you don't need to own it however your opinion carries more weight when you do. 

In your case I would be more concerned about updating your 10 year old intel rig for security purposes  than what amd is doing for board compatibility.


----------



## Xzibit (May 11, 2020)

Melvis said:


> This is exactly what I mean! Couldnt agree more with this video!



They also have skin in the game because they kept recommending B450 and earlier gen boards to no end in hopes of longevity.

Thanks for taking our advise now that it turned out to be not so good advise.


----------



## Melvis (May 12, 2020)

bug said:


> Once again: did it read "Ryzen 4000 supported" on the box when you bought it?
> Non-existing products are unsupported by default, you cannot blame AMD for your wishful thinking (even if they sorta encouraged it).



It doesnt say on any box so what the heck are you talking about?

You clearly didnt see the video did you? or you wouldnt of made such a silly post!


----------



## Countryside (May 12, 2020)

Its astoundingly stunning how many people here see this as its nothing and think that everyone else is overreacting well that's what you get when a big problem for most is a small fan on chipset.


----------



## Octopuss (May 12, 2020)

What problem are you talking about? 15 pages is a lot, something horrible must have happened.


----------



## djisas (May 12, 2020)

Countryside said:


> Its astoundingly stunning how many people here see this as its nothing and think that everyone else is overreacting well that's what you get when a big problem for most is a small fan on chipset.


And now some of the fancy new intel mb's are shipping with not one, not two, but three vrm fans, at least asrock is doing it, those new intel chips will be hell to cool...


----------



## bug (May 12, 2020)

Melvis said:


> It doesnt say on any box so what the heck are you talking about?
> 
> You clearly didnt see the video did you? or you wouldnt of made such a silly post!


What are _you_ talking about? You know very well you're just venting, if you truly thought you were cheated, you'd be taking this to a lawyer, not an internet forum


----------



## Melvis (May 12, 2020)

bug said:


> What are _you_ talking about? You know very well you're just venting, if you truly thought you were cheated, you'd be taking this to a lawyer, not an internet forum



Yep that just proves it you didnt watch the Video at all! and you clearly have no clue what your talking about or what the issues are, go back and read and watch and you might learn something, till then dont bother posting and wasting peoples time when you havent bothered to learn!


----------



## Parn (May 12, 2020)

Looks like AMD is going to employ the same strategy as Intel, 2 gens of CPUs max per chipset. AMD is winning the x86 CPU battle and gaining market share. So this has come at no surprise.


----------



## EarthDog (May 12, 2020)

Octopuss said:


> What problem are you talking about? 15 pages is a lot, something horrible must have happened.


The pure, kind, patron saint AMD took off her veil to spite all the loyal followers?

The law has a term for this... bait and switch.


----------



## bug (May 12, 2020)

Melvis said:


> Yep that just proves it you didnt watch the Video at all! and you clearly have no clue what your talking about or what the issues are, go back and read and watch and you might learn something, till then dont bother posting and wasting peoples time when you havent bothered to learn!


Of course I didn't watch the video, I was just trying to see whether you have a point on your own.


----------



## specopsFI (May 12, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> They also have skin in the game because they kept recommending B450 and earlier gen boards to no end in hopes of longevity.
> 
> Thanks for taking our advise now that it turned out to be not so good advise.



Very true. And why did they recommend B450's? Because there was nothing better in the market to recommend (for the majority of their audience). And why did they think B450's had longevity? Because AMD has been selling the whole platform with longevity. And MSI went as far as to launch a whole series of B450 MAX motherboards, marketing them as future proof products.

So where did HWU do wrong?


----------



## Melvis (May 12, 2020)

bug said:


> Of course I didn't watch the video, I was just trying to see whether you have a point on your own.



My point is the video! and what ive been saying all along, but since you STILL dont get it, just move on bud! and go to another forum page that is a little bit more toned down for you to understand! thank you!


----------



## sepheronx (May 12, 2020)

Parn said:


> Looks like AMD is going to employ the same strategy as Intel, 2 gens of CPUs max per chipset. AMD is winning the x86 CPU battle and gaining market share. So this has come at no surprise.



Technically AMD did 3 so far, so 1 ahead of Intel.  Not that I fully agree with their claim and all but still.


----------



## bug (May 12, 2020)

Melvis said:


> *My point is the video!* and what ive been saying all along, but since you STILL dont get it, just move on bud! and go to another forum page that is a little bit more toned down for you to understand! thank you!


Ah, my bad. I thought that was the poster's point. Do I feel silly now...


----------



## Rocketboy (May 12, 2020)

This is no longer possible as the 3000 series and 4000 series are good enough to crush each other (zen3 old card support). Because pricing has become difficult.


----------



## Xzibit (May 12, 2020)

specopsFI said:


> Very true. And why did they recommend B450's? Because there was nothing better in the market to recommend (for the majority of their audience). And why did they think B450's had longevity? Because AMD has been selling the whole platform with longevity. And MSI went as far as to launch a whole series of B450 MAX motherboards, marketing them as future proof products.
> 
> So where did HWU do wrong?



Its been said but still escapes the mind. AM4 Socket support doesn't equal Chipset support. The intro to the video makes it clear then it goes on to, Well they should do this or we think they should do that because of this and that.

BTW, Didn't they (HWU) have a poll and the majority of their audience/replies said it was unfortunate not bothered or will upgrade the motherboard. Only 1/4th were upset.

So its the people who take their recommendations to heart


----------



## Super XP (May 12, 2020)

the54thvoid said:


> Wait? No. So my planned 3 generation CPU path on one, original mobo is shafted? I'm pretty sure it was never promised but I'm certain future upgrade on the old X370 was spoken on for Zen 3?
> 
> If true, this sucks big time.


Speculation and all, but I believe AMD had issues ensuring full ZEN3 utilization with x370 mobo's. They did mention Socket AM4 compatibility back in the day, though I don't remember them talking about chipset clarification. A lot can happen in 3 years.


----------



## specopsFI (May 12, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> Its been said but still escapes the mind. AM4 Socket support doesn't equal Chipset support. The intro to the video makes it clear then it goes on to, Well they should do this or we think they should do that because of this and that.
> 
> BTW, Didn't they (HWU) have a poll and the majority of their audience/replies said it was unfortunate not bothered or will upgrade the motherboard. Only 1/4th were upset.
> 
> So its the people who take their recommendations to heart



I'm sure you, in principle, agree that socket support is completely pointless without chipset support? Denying compatibility for a pin-compatible product is in no way different from actually changing the socket. But that's pedantic at best.

The poll showed a rather big unhappy camp compared to market penetration of the B450/X470 chipsets. People who are not affected by any of this have a low tendency to be very upset about it...


----------



## bug (May 12, 2020)

specopsFI said:


> I'm sure you, in principle, agree that socket support is completely pointless without chipset support? Denying compatibility for a pin-compatible product is in no way different from actually changing the socket. But that's pedantic at best.
> 
> The poll showed a rather big unhappy camp compared to market penetration of the B450/X470 chipsets. People who are not affected by any of this have a low tendency to be very upset about it...


Turning this upside down, how can anyone ever be happy because of lack of support?
But there's a difference between "this doesn't work. bummer" and pulling out the pitchforks.


----------



## trparky (May 12, 2020)

I know that I said earlier that I was going to back out of this thread but I'm just going to leave this here...








Got to love the thumbnail pic for this one. Steve, you're hilarious.


----------



## windwhirl (May 12, 2020)

trparky said:


> Got to love the thumbnail pic for this one. Steve, you're hilarious.



Honestly, I was tired of all the debate and back-and-forth about this matter, but I'm gonna watch that video just because of the thumbnail


----------



## Melvis (May 13, 2020)

bug said:


> Ah, my bad. I thought that was the poster's point. Do I feel silly now...



Thats ok! we all realised how silly you where for your comments and not having the intellect to be able to view Videos or read comments, so all good! At least now you know


----------



## rvalencia (May 13, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> The pure, kind, patron saint AMD took off her veil to spite all the loyal followers?
> 
> The law has a term for this... bait and switch.


There's another term for presenting themselves as virtuous but has similar behavior has their condemned targets... hypocrites.


----------



## NoJuan999 (May 13, 2020)

I still have hope that MB manufacturers will offer support for 4000 Series CPUs on B450 and X470 motherboards via BIOS updates.








						AMD Ryzen 4000 Series "Vermeer" CPUs to be Compatible with B450 Motherboards
					

AMD's upcoming Ryzen 4000 series "Vermeer" lineup of CPUs based on the new Zen 3 core is slated to launch sometime in late 2020, and we have information about the chipset support of 4th generation of Ryzen CPUs. The laptop manufacturer XMG, known for its crazy Apex 15 laptop with 16 core AMD...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## bug (May 13, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> There's another term for presenting themselves as virtuous but has similar behavior has their condemned targets... hypocrites.


Come on. This is not hypocrisy, it's just business. When you're not at the top of your game, you pretty much _have to_ play nice (since your products are not competitive enough). And when you get on top, your shareholders will make sure they're getting paid.
And that's disregarding the possibility Zen3 is actually incompatible with chipsets built for CPUs two iterations older.

If there's anything amiss here, it's people building a mental image of a company based on company's own PR and kind words.


----------



## authorized (May 13, 2020)

Xzibit said:


> Its been said but still escapes the mind. AM4 Socket support doesn't equal Chipset support. The intro to the video makes it clear then it goes on to, Well they should do this or we think they should do that because of this and that.


AM4 support equals chipset support in context of cpu upgrades so that kind of defense seems childish. "Technically" they didn't say that, who cares, they misled people. 

I agree with what he's saying in the video, but presenting that "what they should have said" statement was very cringy.

There's a silver lining for everyone who bought a bugdet oriented B450 motherboard - even if you have to buy a new B550 motherboard, a total cost will be about the same as if you bought an X570 in the first place.


----------



## rvalencia (May 14, 2020)

bug said:


> Come on. This is not hypocrisy, it's just business. When you're not at the top of your game, you pretty much _have to_ play nice (since your products are not competitive enough). And when you get on top, your shareholders will make sure they're getting paid.
> And that's disregarding the possibility Zen3 is actually incompatible with chipsets built for CPUs two iterations older.
> 
> If there's anything amiss here, it's people building a mental image of a company based on company's own PR and kind words.


Business entity = separate legal entity from owners.

Being in business is not an excuse for behaving badly or opening the business for a class action e.g. https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...ertising-class-action-lawsuit-bulldozer-chips

It looks like AMD deserves another class action. LOL. https://community.amd.com/thread/252855


----------



## bug (May 14, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> Business entity = separate legal entity from owners.
> 
> Being in business is not an excuse for behaving badly or opening the business for a class action e.g. https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...ertising-class-action-lawsuit-bulldozer-chips
> 
> It looks like AMD deserves another class action. LOL. https://community.amd.com/thread/252855


You really think "socket support should equal chipset support" will stand in court?


----------



## las (May 14, 2020)

Just in time to cut 300 and 400 series chipset support for 4000 series 

2 gens of support on a consumer platform is enough. Lets go. Focus on new stuff and stop wasting time on supporting old stuff. Can't blame AMD for this.


----------



## rvalencia (May 14, 2020)

bug said:


> You really think "socket support should equal chipset support" will stand in court?









"Upgrade your processor without buying a new motherboard".


----------



## EarthDog (May 14, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> "Upgrade your processor without buying a new motherboard".


"subject to future roadmap modifications"


----------



## Caring1 (May 14, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> "Upgrade your processor without buying a new motherboard".


Cherry picking what the slide says doesn't help your argument.
It clearly shows *until* 2020.
Guess what year it is now!


----------



## rvalencia (May 15, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> Cherry picking what the slide says doesn't help your argument.
> It clearly shows *until* 2020.
> Guess what year it is now!


Not my problem since I don't own B450 and X470.






						AMD Community | AMD
					

Join AMD Community, a forum for members to discuss the hottest AMD topics or stop by to read the latest blogs & news about all things AMD. Check it out!




					community.amd.com
				










EarthDog said:


> "subject to future roadmap modifications"






MSI is in legal hot water.


----------



## bug (May 15, 2020)

@rvalencia You're grasping at straws at this point. Let it rest.


----------



## las (May 15, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> "Upgrade your processor without buying a new motherboard".



Yes, feel free to upgrade to 3000 series. They did not really lie.


----------



## Super XP (May 15, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> "Upgrade your processor without buying a new motherboard".


It says Socket AM4 compatibility, but mentions nothing about chipsets. I think AMD is making a good decision here IMO. Sometimes trying to support old chipsets with new processors hinders the overall system performance or that old chipset hinders the new CPU potential. 
Some might call this a cash grab, I don't, I believe AMD wants Zero performance compromise and if that's not supporting x370 then so be it. IMO


----------



## bug (May 15, 2020)

Super XP said:


> It says Socket AM4 compatibility, but mentions nothing about chipsets. I think AMD is making a good decision here IMO. Sometimes trying to support old chipsets with new processors hinders the overall system performance or that old chipset hinders the new CPU potential.
> Some might call this a cash grab, I don't, I believe AMD wants Zero performance compromise and *if that's not supporting x370 then so be it. *IMO


It's also not supporting X470, but I'm still not going to burn AMD to the stake for that 

AMD shot themselves in the foot because now more people will realize they may not be the dreamy company they paint themselves to be: they did not shy away from making vague/borderline misleading statements, first chance they got. But that's AMD's problem to deal with.


----------



## ARF (May 15, 2020)

And now what...... B550 will support only one generation because next year is AM5 and something completely different?!
Well, bad timing for a poor decision.


----------



## BerserkerGuts (May 15, 2020)

Fuuu you @#$% AMD will skip this piece of @#$% series 4xxxx not doing intel thing every mainboard need new


----------



## bug (May 15, 2020)

ARF said:


> And now what...... B550 will support only one generation because next year is AM5 and something completely different?!
> Well, bad timing for a poor decision.


B550 will support Zen2 and Zen3. Sure, it's ridiculously late for Zen2, but two generations on the same socket is about par for the course.
And I'm not sure if a Zen3+ is in the cards, that may also run on the B550.


----------



## ARF (May 15, 2020)

B550 is impossibly late for Zen 2. It's about time for end-of-support and shelf life for Zen 2, if one doesn't count the new desktop APUs.
There is no such thing Zen 3+.


----------



## Super XP (May 15, 2020)

bug said:


> It's also not supporting X470, but I'm still not going to burn AMD to the stake for that
> 
> AMD shot themselves in the foot because now more people will realize they may not be the dreamy company they paint themselves to be: they did not shy away from making vague/borderline misleading statements, first chance they got. But that's AMD's problem to deal with.


Well it's going to be a PR nightmare for AMD and deservingly so. I wonder if there will be a last minute strategy to actually support all Socket AM4 x370/x470 chipsets after all? 
Total support would be wise though IMO, because many just want to plug in a new ZEN3 CPU and nothing more. 
They aren't like us that want a new ZEN3 + a new chipset mobo built for that CPU.


----------



## BerserkerGuts (May 15, 2020)

ARF said:


> B550 is impossibly late for Zen 2. It's about time for end-of-support and shelf life for Zen 2, if one doesn't count the new desktop APUs.
> There is no such thing Zen 3+.


P0000pp00p0

OK miss this p....o.s... series 
Maybe when stop intel buisness plan new mobo buy because more upgrade +15% performance pathetic


----------



## bug (May 15, 2020)

BerserkerGuts said:


> P0000pp00p0
> 
> OK miss this p....o.s... series
> Maybe when stop intel buisness plan new mobo buy because more upgrade +15% performance pathetic


May I suggest https://translate.google.com ? It's less brutal on the English language.


----------



## Super XP (May 15, 2020)

BerserkerGuts said:


> P0000pp00p0
> 
> OK miss this p....o.s... series
> Maybe when stop intel buisness plan new mobo buy because more upgrade +15% performance pathetic


Interesting, you make it sound like the ZEN2 series is garbage? or am I not reading your post correctly? 
Those that have ZEN2 don't really have to upgrade to ZEN3, but the choice is available if they so choose so. ZEN3 is mostly for those that want to upgrade from existing ZEN, ZEN+ and Intel CPUs.


----------



## YAYgee (May 15, 2020)

ARF said:


> There is no such thing Zen 3+.



After Renoir and Cezanne the next one is a Zen 3+ APU according to AMD's internal roadmap (which also will have DDR5).



> B550 is impossibly late for Zen 2. It's about time for end-of-support and shelf life for Zen 2, if one doesn't count the new desktop APUs.



B550 was launched together with R3 3100 and 3300X. So it isn't only the APUs. Plus, later there might be a few "AF" releases. They left it late. Can't argue with that. Still the Zen 2 offerings that are out now are great value (priced even more attractively once Zen 3 gets released?). B550 is a budget option after all.

Zen 4 could very well be a CES 2022 launch. And we'd get refreshes in 2021. N7, N7P and N7+ ported to N6 (all 7nm family) should present no problem I hear.

PS to be clear I do feel bad for those that wanted to upgrade to Zen 3. Let's see if AMD clean up their act going forward.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (May 16, 2020)

BerserkerGuts said:


> P0000pp00p0
> 
> OK miss this p....o.s... series
> Maybe when stop intel buisness plan new mobo buy because more upgrade +15% performance pathetic



You created an account just to spout nonsensical BS, didn't you? 

All I can say is....


----------



## windwhirl (May 16, 2020)

Maybe, juuuuuust maybe, there is hope yet...



Spoiler: Reddit.





__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/gkgmwf








_*John Taylor is AMD's Chief Marketing Officer_

Although it will be nice if they actually get at least 400 series boards to be compatible with Zen 3, it makes me facepalm the amount of trouble/loss of reputation that AMD went through because of all this fiasco.


----------



## bmacsys (May 16, 2020)

windwhirl said:


> Maybe, juuuuuust maybe, there is hope yet...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If AMD works something out this will all be forgotten.


----------



## windwhirl (May 16, 2020)

bmacsys said:


> If AMD works something out this will all be forgotten.



Forgiven? I'd say yes (mostly), but forgotten? Never.

And honestly, if they are working something out, why didn't they work it out earlier? Or at least said so before? It would have saved them all the unnecessary consumer outrage.


----------



## rvalencia (May 16, 2020)

trparky said:


> I know that I said earlier that I was going to back out of this thread but I'm just going to leave this here...
> 
> 
> 
> ...








Hardware Unboxed compares AM4 socket support to Intel's socket LGA1151.

From Intel's Reddit forum 




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/ggblio



bmacsys said:


> If AMD works something out this will all be forgotten.


Give 400 series motherboard a proper exit.


----------



## BerserkerGuts (May 16, 2020)

Hilarious amd defenders working on 
I miss this 4000 maybe 5000 and when i say change mainboard hahaha


----------



## Caring1 (May 16, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> Hardware Unboxed compares AM4 socket support to Intel's socket LGA1151.


What's your point?
Intel kept the same socket, but CPU's had to be changed.


----------



## Aquinus (May 16, 2020)

Super XP said:


> Well it's going to be a PR nightmare for AMD and deservingly so.


Yet Intel releases a new board for literally every generation of CPU these days. I think you're overestimating the backlash. Don't forget, the squeaky wheel is always the loudest. People complain about something wrong more than they compliment when something goes right.


----------



## specopsFI (May 16, 2020)

It's super weird reading forum users so widely defend AMD's decision regarding this issue. What exactly would any of you have lost, if AMD decided to actually follow through in properly supporting AM4? I can't think of a single thing. AMD could have done it, it would have required them and the MB vendors to do some extra work, made both the new CPU market and the second-hand component market more flexible... and that's basically all. So where are the negatives of that scenario, and where do your internal arguments _for _the decision to artificially cut the support stem from?

The only reason I can see to support the decision is for having a stake in AMD, either professionally, financially or emotionally. Could you please enlighten me, if you have a technical reason? Haven't seen any yet.


----------



## bmacsys (May 16, 2020)

windwhirl said:


> Forgiven? I'd say yes (mostly), but forgotten? Never.
> 
> And honestly, if they are working something out, why didn't they work it out earlier? Or at least said so before? It would have saved them all the unnecessary consumer outrage.





I disagree. People have short memories. What they will remember is AMD supported a socket for four years- if this decision is reversed. If not it will stick in people's craw. I agree. But if the value proposition is still on AMD's side people will still vote for them with their wallets as Intel really has no arrows in their quiver that can match AMD's offerings pretty much at any price point. It will be even more one sided come ZEN 3 release.


----------



## rvalencia (May 17, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> What's your point?
> Intel kept the same socket, but CPU's had to be changed.


My point, AMD's PR nightmare for hypocrisy. 

"Zen 3" can handle PCI-E 3.0 due to B550's PCIe 3.0 link to southbridge and  PCIe 3.0 add-on cards.


----------



## bug (May 17, 2020)

specopsFI said:


> It's super weird reading forum users so widely defend AMD's decision regarding this issue. What exactly would any of you have lost, if AMD decided to actually follow through in properly supporting AM4? I can't think of a single thing. AMD could have done it, it would have required them and the MB vendors to do some extra work, made both the new CPU market and the second-hand component market more flexible... and that's basically all. So where are the negatives of that scenario, and where do your internal arguments _for _the decision to artificially cut the support stem from?
> 
> The only reason I can see to support the decision is for having a stake in AMD, either professionally, financially or emotionally. Could you please enlighten me, if you have a technical reason? Haven't seen any yet.


Well, AMD has been the darling of the Internet for a few years, so the reaction is not unexpected. Mind you, they haven't done anything wrong. But had they handled/communicated this with a little more sensitivity, it wouldn't have eroded public's goodwill as much.
To me all this is a blunder at best. But for people looking at AMD through rosy glasses, I imagine it's quite a disappointment.


----------



## windwhirl (May 18, 2020)

Quite the learning experience this video has been.










Apparently, there's also an address range limitation regarding BIOS sizes. Never knew that.


----------



## authorized (May 19, 2020)

If they did that in the first place there would be no outrage, even though it's not ideal.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 19, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> "Upgrade your processor without buying a new motherboard".


But see, that says 2020. Which year is it now? So unless AMD releases the 4000-series this year, they told the truth...



rvalencia said:


> Not my problem since I don't own B450 and X470.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How so?
Matisse 2 is still coming later this year which will work just fine.


----------



## rvalencia (May 19, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> But see, that says 2020. Which year is it now? So unless AMD releases the 4000-series this year, they told the truth...
> 
> How so?
> Matisse 2 is still coming later this year which will work just fine.












AMD Backtracks: B450, X470 Motherboards WILL Now Support Zen 3!

Your argument is flawed.


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 19, 2020)

rvalencia said:


> AMD Backtracks: B450, X470 Motherboards WILL Now Support Zen 3!
> 
> Your argument is flawed.


Argument? I was asking how MSI was in legal hot water, as AMD has Matisse 2 lined up for later this year.


----------



## Dredi (May 19, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Argument? I was asking how MSI was in legal hot water, as AMD has Matisse 2 lined up for later this year.


MSI stated support for all future AM4 products.


----------



## sepheronx (May 19, 2020)

So now we can all put this to rest.


----------



## apoklyps3 (May 19, 2020)

Intel tears


----------



## TheLostSwede (May 19, 2020)

Dredi said:


> MSI stated support for all future AM4 products.


Blame it on the Chinglish... But seriously, the Taiwanese are terrible at things like this, trust me, I live and work in Taiwan and have done plenty of freelance and full time work for local tech companies. They are masters at screwing  these kind of things up. Technically this would be a nightmare for them in Taiwan, if it says the same in Chinese, as the consumer rights organisation in Taiwan is handled by the government, so they might have to give out a lot of free boards in Taiwan.


----------



## NoJuan999 (May 19, 2020)

authorized said:


> If they did that in the first place there would be no outrage, even though it's not ideal.


It's like I had a crystal ball. 
This is what I posted in this thread last week:


> I still have hope that MB manufacturers will offer support for 4000 Series CPUs on B450 and X470 motherboards via BIOS updates.











						AMD B550 Chipset Detailed, It's Ready for Zen 3, Older AM4 Motherboards not Compatible
					

Very true. And why did they recommend B450's? Because there was nothing better in the market to recommend (for the majority of their audience). And why did they think B450's had longevity? Because AMD has been selling the whole platform with longevity. And MSI went as far as to launch a whole...




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## PYRO1125 (May 19, 2020)

Well now LOL, I have a 32mb ROM on my AsRock X470 same as the X570 so of course it will work maybe the smaller 16mb boards might have to remove Ryzen 1000 or 2000 for support of Zen3. I have a 3700x and they can remove everything below that for my board LOL. AMD should have never said that from the start that 400 series will not support Zen3. They just won back so many customers and they want to burn that now? Very bad move from the start, at least now they intend to make it right.  For me like I said (in a previous post)  I can switch CPU companys at will, Intel or AMD I'm not loyal to either I been going back and forth for years building PC's


----------



## NoJuan999 (May 19, 2020)

PYRO1125 said:


> Well now LOL, I have a 32mb ROM on my AsRock X470 same as the X570 so of course it will work maybe the smaller 16mb boards might have to remove Ryzen 1000 or 2000 for support of Zen3. I have a 3700x and they can remove everything below that for my board LOL. AMD should have never said that from the start that 400 series will not support Zen3. They just won back so many customers and they want to burn that now? Very bad move from the start, at least now they intend to make it right.  For me like I said (in a previous post)  I can switch CPU companys at will, Intel or AMD I'm not loyal to either I been going back and forth for years building PC's


Same for me.
I have a 3700x on my Asus ROG Strix X470-F (32 MB BIOS ROM) and a 2600 on an Asus ROG Strix B450-F (16 MB BIOS ROM).
My plan was always to put the 3700x onto the B450-F when I do eventually upgrade to a Zen 4000 CPU on the X470-F.
I even ran the 3700x on the B450-F for about a month just to be sure I would be happy with that combo.


----------



## PYRO1125 (May 19, 2020)

NoJuan999 said:


> Same for me.
> I have a 3700x on my Asus ROG Strix X470-F (32 MB BIOS ROM) and a 2600 on an Asus ROG Strix B450-F (16 MB BIOS ROM).
> My plan was always to put the 3700x onto the B450-F when I do eventually upgrade to a Zen 4000 CPU on the X470-F.
> I even ran the 3700x on the B450-F for about a month just to be sure I would be happy with that combo.



Now we can both upgrade to a Zen3 CPU 
What I'm going to do, is buy the top of the line Zen3 CPU for my board because that will be the final CPU upgrade might as well go for the best lol. I'm saving $$ now, and put about 700$ aside from that stimulus check for it. Did AMD say when they are releasing Zen3 CPUs? Aug. or Sept., I'm not sure.


----------



## NoJuan999 (May 19, 2020)

PYRO1125 said:


> Now we can both upgrade to a Zen3 CPU
> What I'm going to do, is buy the top of the line Zen3 CPU for my board because that will be the final CPU upgrade might as well go for the best lol. I'm saving $$ now, and put about 700$ aside from that stimulus check for it. Did AMD say when they are releasing Zen3 CPUs? Aug. or Sept., I'm not sure.


That's the plan.
I don't know when I will upgrade though as the 3700x does everything I need it to and does it quickly too. 
Ands as far as I know Zen 3 is tentatively slated for an August release date but that isn't set in stone.


----------



## PYRO1125 (May 19, 2020)

NoJuan999 said:


> That's the plan.
> I don't know when I will upgrade though as the 3700x does everything I need it to and does it quickly too.
> Ands as far as I know Zen 3 is tentatively slated for an August release date but that isn't set in stone.



Agree our 3700x CPUs are great, Aug. hmmm not so far away if it's true. Maybe in a few weeks AMD will announce something.

Gamers Nexus (Tech Jesus)  Has about a 30min run down on what AMD said:


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## djisas (May 21, 2020)

NoJuan999 said:


> That's the plan.
> I don't know when I will upgrade though as the 3700x does everything I need it to and does it quickly too.
> Ands as far as I know Zen 3 is tentatively slated for an August release date but that isn't set in stone.



But wouldn't a 4800 be a different kind of beast?
Im on a 3600, good jump from i3 2120, a step up would be a 4700, for 300ish I will think about it...


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## Bluzin (Jun 7, 2020)

I am very disappointed. I just spent the last few days trying to find the right cpu for my build and I was just about to put a Ryzen 5 3400G in the cart, and not I find out, from Amada Tech, amd is not going to support it on the new gen 4 architecture. Gen 3 Ryzen 5- 6 core cpu's apparantly don't exist with Vega 11 graphics so I settled for a quad core. I can't afford a Ryzen 7. I really wanted to build an audio studio pc, and have some decent gaming too. Motherboard manufactures have been known to patch the BIOS to support new generations of CPU's, so we can only hope they do. I think I remember having to download a BIOS update on someone elses computer, to a floppy disk, (yeah, way back) in order to flash the my bios so it could recognize an Amd k6 75 Mhz processor.


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