# NVIDIA Readying GM200-based GeForce GTX 980 Ti



## btarunr (Mar 27, 2015)

NVIDIA is preparing its second GeForce graphics card based on its 28 nm GM200 silicon, which powers the $1,000 GTX TITAN-X. There are several rumors surrounding what NVIDIA could name the card. Some sources suggest NVIDIA could name it the GeForce GTX 980 Ti, while others point at names such as the GTX 990 (to set it sufficiently apart from the smaller GM204-based GTX 980). 

The SweClockers report that sides with GTX 980 Ti for the name, mentions that the card could feature the chip's full complement of 3,072 CUDA cores, but feature 6 GB of memory, compared to 12 GB on the GTX TITAN-X. The memory bus width will stay at 384-bit. NVIDIA could allow its add-in card (AIC) partners to come up with custom-design cards, and so we could expect some cards with meaty cooling solutions (that keep the chip away from its 84°C temperature-throttle), and factory-overclocked speeds, to make the GTX 980 Ti even faster than the GTX TITAN-X. NVIDIA could time its launch with AMD's launch of the Radeon R9 390X.





*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## mroofie (Mar 27, 2015)

Woop Woop Nvidia


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## RCoon (Mar 27, 2015)

I hope the Titan X owners enjoyed them for the few days they lasted.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 27, 2015)

Nvidia is a shit and if I am their customer (fortunately I'm seeing this and will never ever be until I'm alive and sane), I would be highly insulted by their arrogant and stupid behaviour.

How is it possible to launch Titan X for 1000$ (and in Europe even much more than that) and to try to convince everyone how great it is, and then suddenly launch an inferior series card which is faster and cheaper.

Then, why the heck did you launch the titin, you assholes?!


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## silapakorn (Mar 27, 2015)

Apparently it's coming this summer at $699(?).
http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-ti-coming-summer/


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## RCoon (Mar 27, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> why the heck did you launch the titin



VRAM + professional work. Also, take your language elsewhere.



silapakorn said:


> Apparently it's coming this summer at $699(?).
> http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-ti-coming-summer/



Judging by past experience, WCCFTech are 100% making stuff up usually. I trust a dodgy Chinese leak over those guys.


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## Chaitanya (Mar 27, 2015)

I thought they would release this after AMD has released their long rumoured replacement to R9-290 series of video cards. Also I would like to see replacement for the 750 series of cards before this one hits the market. Both 750 series video cards lack h.265(for strange reasons only the GTX 960 supports it) encoding and now there are cameras starting to appear which are using this codec and would be nice for the people building HTPC/SFFs.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 27, 2015)

RCoon said:


> VRAM + professional work



I do not know what you are speaking about. The card is castrated with its features, for instance double precision ( and you need to show me where exactly professionaly it would work).


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## CTMxGMG (Mar 27, 2015)

What should a Titan X owner would feel after reading this...


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## NC37 (Mar 27, 2015)

Meh, GM series is all overpriced. I refuse to buy nVidia again until 04s are in the x60 models. Which won't happen this year. The only decent GM series is the 970 and nVidia botched that by cutting corners. 

Think next GPU will be AMD. 460s have hit their limit with Star Citizen and I'm feeling the upgrade itch. Been a good run with nVidia tho. Probably the longest time I've been with either of them. Come on AMD, gimmie some good deals in June.


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## bogami (Mar 27, 2015)

the hard-working frequency can be judged to have had highly facilitate the operation that could benchmarks with AMD 390X and demonstrates that there is a new TITAN-X killer on the way. And what will again postpones 20 nm product? These liars (never again will not happen!) has long pulled my eggs and such prices as it is in Europe TITAN-X € 1,120 + so 800€ minimum for GTX 980ti. Greedy consuming the already old 28 nm technology, the production of which is much cheaper naw.


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## Caring1 (Mar 27, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> Nvidia is a shit and if I am their customer (fortunately I'm seeing this and will never ever be until I'm alive and sane), I would be highly insulted by their arrogant and stupid behaviour.
> 
> How is it possible to launch Titan X for 1000$ (and in Europe even much more than that) and to try to convince everyone how great it is, and then suddenly launch an inferior series card which is faster and cheaper.


Has past experience not taught you anything?
History, always repeats


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## buggalugs (Mar 27, 2015)

Yup, I raised this point in the TitanX thread. The same thing happened with the original titan. Some people have short memories.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 27, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> Has past experience not taught you anything?
> History, always repeats



I know something which nvidia won't like a lot: it turns out that under DX12 the R9 290X is faster than GTX 980 by the significant 33%.

Published by AMD Gaming in FB:

*Good news: the results of the PC Perspective 3DMark API Overhead Feature Test are out. Best News: The AMD Radeon™ R9 290X graphics card delivers up to 33% higher performance than others. Game on.*

http://community.amd.com/community/...t?hootPostID=047918477ec53f38115dc3ee9bee9ff0

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/3DMark-API-Overhead-Feature-Test-Early-DX12-Performance


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## 20mmrain (Mar 27, 2015)

I can't mention how I know...but this card will not be faster than the Titan X. The GTX 980 ti will have less Ram and cost less (about $700) then the GTX titan X. Call me a lier if you want.... just remember you heard it here first.
So for those who bought the new titan feel good about your purchase. However this card will not be released until AMD gets closer to releasing their R9 390X card.


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## Caring1 (Mar 27, 2015)

Actually I already read an article saying the same thing
The 980Ti will be slower and lower priced.


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## Caring1 (Mar 27, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> I know something which nvidia won't like a lot: it turns out that under DX12 the R9 290X is faster than GTX 980 by the significant 33%.


Also around the same percentage higher in power consumption.
The upcoming 390x is meant to address that and decrease power usage.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Mar 27, 2015)

While the R9 390X is going to be a "game changer" for AMD, I highly doubt about the reduced power consumption since they said "most" cards are based on rebranded R9 200 series chips. Hopefully they did it right once it's out. Anyways, to those who bought the Titan X, stay proud & ignore those naysayers who thinks AMD is the better choice in terms of performance/price ratio while not bothering about thermal issues & absurd power consumptions. Efficiency goes hand in hand with performance now & then, not like last time.


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## mroofie (Mar 27, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> I know something which nvidia won't like a lot: it turns out that under DX12 the R9 290X is faster than GTX 980 by the significant 33%.
> 
> Published by AMD Gaming in FB:
> 
> ...


did you miss the part where he said not to compare the performance of the R9 290x vs the gtx 980 ?


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## Animalpak (Mar 27, 2015)

There is my next GPU !!


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## qubit (Mar 27, 2015)

RCoon said:


> I hope the Titan X owners enjoyed them for the few days they lasted.


Indeed!

Let's hope we get the power without the extortionate price this time.


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## mroofie (Mar 27, 2015)

qubit said:


> Indeed!
> 
> Let's hope we get the power without the extortionate price this time.


$ 700 maybe ?


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## qubit (Mar 27, 2015)

lol.


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## erixx (Mar 27, 2015)

Now we just need those over and over announced "photorealistic" games!!!!


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## 64K (Mar 27, 2015)

Videocardz is saying the GM200 will be clocked faster than the Titan X and will be priced at $600.
$600 doesn't seem right to me considering the much slower GTX 980 is $550. Possibly if Nvidia is thinking of reducing the 980 to $450 then that might happen but I think it will be $700. That would fall in line with the Kepler releases of the GK110 780 Ti with half the VRAM of the Titan for $700 which was faster than the Titan when the Titan was $1000.

http://videocardz.com/55299/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-ti-to-be-released-after-summer

One thing remains to be seen. With a non-reference cooler could the GM200 be OC higher than a Titan X could be OC even if the GM200/6 GB were a little slower than the Titan X out of the box. W1zzard said his Titan X throttled after 1 minute of gameplay due to the GPU temp hitting 84 degrees. A superior cooler might prevent that and allow higher clocks on top of that.

We will also probably see the dual GM200 GPU Titan ZOMG card sometime this year. It will be a little slower than 2 Titan X for $1,000 more than 2 Titan X.  Much weeping and gnashing of teeth will ensue all over the tech/gaming sites when/if that does happen.


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## dj-electric (Mar 27, 2015)

With NVIDIA's own foot-shot restrictions on TITAN X, if 980 TI will use 100% of its internal components, i have 0 doubt it will be far supirior because of the use of custom PCB and coolers


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## GreiverBlade (Mar 27, 2015)

... well ...

wahahaahahahahahahhahahahaha 

okay ... now i can go work with a huge smile on my face ... bahaha
hint "lube edition Ti"


second thought ... well nvidia you are finished for me, no more GTX card i'm fed up.
my 290 will surely hold enough long until some 390X will hit the 2nd hand market (well ... i might keep nvidia as a favorit for SOC ... my Tegra K1 is a beauty in my shield tablet but for GPU nah ... nothing more to see )


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## RCoon (Mar 27, 2015)

64K said:


> Videocardz is saying the GM200 will be clocked faster than the Titan X and will be priced at $600.
> $600 doesn't seem right to me considering the much slower GTX 980 is $550.



With Kepler, the 780ti replaced the 780 in the product stack's pricing point on release (when 780 released, it was £550, when the 780ti released, it was £550, and the 780 was reduced to compete based on its performance). I believe the same will happen with the 980 and ti variant. 980 will probably see a price reduction to compete with the 390X based on price/performance.



Dj-ElectriC said:


> far supirior because of the use of custom PCB and coolers



This is why the ti will be faster than the Titan X. AIB custom cards, better parts and better cooler, reducing or eliminating throttling from heat.


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 27, 2015)

qubit said:


> Indeed!
> 
> Let's hope we get the power without the extortionate price this time.



My money is on GTX 780 release prices, adjusted for inflation. They are following the kepler release script for the most part. The only think I am seeing different is this time the cut down GM200 isn't starting a new product line number.


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## Bjorn_Of_Iceland (Mar 27, 2015)

Bend over edition


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## qubit (Mar 27, 2015)

Let's hope the 390x is a real performance monster and forces nvidia to reduce its prices.


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## DinaAngel (Mar 27, 2015)

i might sell my titan x later in the year. maybe wait until pascal. i need it for now


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## newtekie1 (Mar 27, 2015)

Did anyone not see this coming?  I mean, honestly, if you though nVidia wasn't going to release cut down version of GM200 for better values than Titan-X you're an idiot.


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## DinaAngel (Mar 27, 2015)

newtekie1 said:


> Did anyone not see this coming?


even if u buy a 980TI then it will be replaced in February next year or so.
buy when u need and replace.
iv bought new almost every year

i got a 690 laying around, and 3 7970s, and got 2 780s.
its getting crowded


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## 64K (Mar 27, 2015)

Just basing the GM200/6GB on price/performance compared to the GM204 980 using the Kepler releases for a reference point $600 for GM200/6GB is just too low. When the GK110 780 came out for $650 the GK104 GTX 680 refresh (GTX 770) was $400. If Nvidia sticks with that pricing then the GM200/6GB at $600 would need to push the 980 back to $350. I don't see that happening when people are happily paying $550 for their 980s. That's why I think the GM200/6GB will be $700 and probably dropping the 980 to $500 at the same time.



qubit said:


> Let's hope the 390x is a real performance monster and forces nvidia to reduce its prices.



I suspect, once again based solely on rumors, that the R9 390X will be at least as fast as the GM200/6GB and possibly beat it by a little. The pricing will be critical to it's success though imo. If AMD can retail the card for $600 and if the GM200/6GB retails for $700 then the 390X will probably be the winner in price/performance.


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## Fluffmeister (Mar 27, 2015)

Faster cards coming in the future, AMD fans in uproar!


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## 64K (Mar 27, 2015)

DinaAngel said:


> even if u buy a 980TI then it will be replaced in February next year or so.
> buy when u need and replace.
> iv bought new almost every year
> 
> ...



Your hoard pile needs to be reduced.  Time for a sale.


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## DinaAngel (Mar 27, 2015)

64K said:


> Your hoard pile needs to be reduced.  Time for a sale.


lol, yeah ill be giving my 780s to Maban, he might sell them.

they got permanent waterblocks on. soldered pretty much


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## BarbaricSoul (Mar 27, 2015)

DinaAngel said:


> even if u buy a 980TI then it will be replaced in February next year or so.
> buy when u need and replace.
> iv bought new almost every year
> 
> ...



You really ought to sell stuff when you replace it. Costs a lot less that way, and you don't have to worry about storage space.

I bought my 780ti very shortly after it's release. Paid about $740 total for it. I have no regrets with that purchase and the card itself. The GTX 980ti and 390X are the first cards that has me thinking about upgrading my 780ti. 

And about replacing it next Feb? Hell, I've had my ti since Dec 2013, and it looks like it will be another 4-5 months before this 980ti/390X will be released. That's getting close to two years of use and still staying in the top three single GPU performance level. The only single GPU card that clearly beats my 780ti is the 980, but only by around 5%. The 290x and the +1 ghz 780ti trades blows back and forth. It will be interesting to see what happens and which comes out on top when the next King of the Hill cards are released.


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## theGryphon (Mar 27, 2015)

I'm pretty sure it will be a GM200 core with one or two of the clusters cut. It makes perfect sense not only to create value out of the chips that don't perform at full specs, but also to avoid cannibalizing Titan X. Something with this Titan X is that it's not the prosumer card the Titan brand used to represent. It's a glorified gaming card. If they let 980Ti be faster than Titan X, they would destroy the Titan brand for good.


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## 64K (Mar 27, 2015)

BarbaricSoul said:


> You really ought to sell stuff when you replace it. Costs a lot less that way, and you don't have to worry about storage space.
> 
> I bought my 780ti very shortly after it's release. Paid about $740 total for it. I have no regrets with that purchase and the card itself. The GTX 980ti and 390X are the first cards that has me thinking about upgrading my 780ti.
> 
> And about replacing it next Feb? Hell, I've had my ti since Dec 2013, and it looks like it will be another 4-5 months before this 980ti/390X will be released. That's getting close to two years of use and still staying in the top three single GPU performance level. The only single GPU card that clearly beats my 780ti is the 980, but only by around 5%. The 290x and the +1 ghz 780ti trades blows back and forth. It will be interesting to see what happens and which comes out on top when the next King of the Hill cards are released.



That's true. That 780 Ti especially with the ACX cooler was a heck of performer and still is. If TSMC had gotten their act together with the 20nm process for Maxwell that would have allowed greater room for performance increase for Maxwells due to even greater efficiency provided by the 20nm process.

It will be a sad state of affairs if TSMC isn't ready for 16nm by the end of this year and the first Pascals have to come out on 28nm early next year.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 27, 2015)

64K said:


> It will be a sad state of affairs if TSMC isn't ready for 16nm by the end of this year and the first Pascals have to come out on 28nm early next year.



AMD and nvidia can switch to GF and Samsung for future graphics cards production.

It is already reported that.


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## Nate00 (Mar 27, 2015)

Looks like Nvidia is Sh$ting bricks knowing that the new R390 is going to kill it's sales on there top end this time.
It will be interesting to see how fast the R390 will be especially the 4GB Version compared to NV Titan x 12GB.

TITAN X  was a desperate attempt at trying to save some face.  I mean come on , $1000 +  for a card that was never really designed for gaming ?  12GB of memory ?  LMAO .


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## dados8756 (Mar 27, 2015)

I wonder what will happen to Titan X user right now if they read this -_-" throwing their card??? selling their card???crying??? or hunt down Jen-Hsun Huang and fapped his P*nis in public ??? the choice is yours...


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## Caring1 (Mar 27, 2015)

dados8756 said:


> I wonder what will happen to Titan X user right now if they read this -_-" throwing their card??? selling their card???crying??? or hunt down Jen-Hsun Huang and fapped his P*nis in public ??? the choice is yours...


Yeah, let's start a witch hunt before we have all the facts


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 27, 2015)

dados8756 said:


> I wonder what will happen to Titan X user right now if they read this -_-" throwing their card??? selling their card???crying??? or hunt down Jen-Hsun Huang and fapped his P*nis in public ??? the choice is yours...



Why would they? Anyone who watched all this happen with Kepler would know the Titan-X wasn't going to be the end of the line.


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## the54thvoid (Mar 27, 2015)

20mmrain said:


> I can't mention how I know...but this card will not be faster than the Titan X. The GTX 980 ti will have less Ram and cost less (about $700) then the GTX titan X. Call me a lier if you want.... just remember you heard it here first.
> So for those who bought the new titan feel good about your purchase. However this card will not be released until AMD gets closer to releasing their R9 390X card.



I believe what you've been privvy to but:

Warning ---logic train of thought ahead---

1 - Titan X has about 10-20% OC head at stock volts, therefore GM200 can def go faster
2 - Titan X is 30-40% faster than GTX980
3 - R9 390X is as yet 'unknown' for performance - rumours suggest good potential.
4 - Nvidia wont play 2nd fiddle to AMD

So, if Nvidia says "No, 980ti wont be as fast as Titan" and 390X releases and IS faster than Titan, Nvidia just lost.  Given point (1) above, Nvidia can easily beat Titan with a 6Gb vendor OC'ed GM200 with different card thresholds.  Nvidia might well be saying - 980Ti is going to be slower but that makes no sense if 390X is a real threat to their position.

So...

a) Either Nvidia knows that Titan X is faster already than 390X or,
b) They're lying to their partners about how fast 980ti is going to be (to stop Titan X sales dropping), or
c) They know 390X is so good, they can't compete (really?).

I can't see a scenario where Nvidia will release a card in Summer than can't compete with 390X (but if they can't, I'm getting me a 390X).  So if what you're saying is true, 390X sux ass or kicks ass (Titan X is already better or Nv have no answer).

There is no logic in NV releasing a card that is between 980 and Titan X performance, not with a 390X in the wings.


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## heydan83 (Mar 27, 2015)

Men I predicted this in so many forums and everyone laugh of me, I feel bad for all the 980s and Titan Xs buyers, Im including 980s owner because I think this new 980ti would be the same price as a 980 to compete to 390x and the same if not better performance than the Titan X, but with less vram so the Titan X can be kind of "useful" with 12 GB, because I doubt amd will release the 390x for more than 600 dlls.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 27, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> I know something which nvidia won't like a lot: it turns out that under DX12 the R9 290X is faster than GTX 980 by the significant 33%.
> 
> Published by AMD Gaming in FB:
> 
> ...


that API overhead test is not to be used to compare hardware, it says that in the description of the test. Its solely to compare APIs.


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## RyneSmith (Mar 27, 2015)

How are people on a tech forum shocked about this release? It's like this every time... open your eyes.

980 Ti will be faster than the Titan-X, why would they release a card to compete vs AMD that's slower than the already release Titan-X?

Titan-X isn't/wasn't a gaming card no matter the marketing. 980 Ti is the gaming card, will be fastest simple.


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## DinaAngel (Mar 27, 2015)

RyneSmith said:


> How are people on a tech forum shocked about this release? It's like this every time... open your eyes.
> 
> 980 Ti will be faster than the Titan-X, why would they release a card to compete vs AMD that's slower than the already release Titan-X?
> 
> Titan-X isn't/wasn't a gaming card no matter the marketing. 980 Ti is the gaming card, will be fastest simple.


noone said they was shocked. and like me, i bought a titan x due to i didnt want to wait. ill just buy a 980TI when it comes too lol. its not a big deal


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## Caring1 (Mar 27, 2015)

RyneSmith said:


> How are people on a tech forum shocked about this release? It's like this every time... open your eyes.



We're not, thank you.


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## RyneSmith (Mar 27, 2015)

DinaAngel said:


> noone said they was shocked. and like me, i bought a titan x due to i didnt want to wait. ill just buy a 980TI when it comes too lol. its not a big deal



One example, sure more are to follow:

"Nvidia is a shit and if I am their customer (fortunately I'm seeing this and will never ever be until I'm alive and sane), I would be highly insulted by their arrogant and stupid behaviour." Sony Xperia



Caring1 said:


> We're not, thank you.



Not saying you are, was just a general statement. This "Nvidia sucks" state of mind for releasing multiple cards/prices/performance/etc is just old to me, but such is life.


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## heydan83 (Mar 27, 2015)

RyneSmith said:


> How are people on a tech forum shocked about this release? It's like this every time... open your eyes.
> 
> 980 Ti will be faster than the Titan-X, why would they release a card to compete vs AMD that's slower than the already release Titan-X?
> 
> Titan-X isn't/wasn't a gaming card no matter the marketing. 980 Ti is the gaming card, will be fastest simple.



The worse is that, Titan X it is a gaming card, the fact that even now it doesnt have the double-precision feature makes it even more a gaming card, and I think that worse than the shocked you´re talking about, it is people buying the Titan X, knowing that in the past both amd and nvidia in no time released cards faster and cheaper than the Titan, that it´s just a shit of a product that only fan boys buy, and hahaha even worse is the fact that those same fan boys are gonna sell their Titan Xs and buy 980ti, men this people are so brainwashed.


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## Fluffmeister (Mar 27, 2015)

People don't want to wait for the best performance... what is naive is thinking these people don't know that cheaper and faster products will come out some time in the future.

A fella on another forum i frequent just put a new rig together with four Titan X's, he seems happy with it.


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## btarunr (Mar 27, 2015)

RCoon said:


> VRAM + professional work.



Just a reminder, Titan-X does not have full double-precision floating point.

So the only thing Titan-X will have going for it vs. GTX 990, is 12 GB memory.


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## heydan83 (Mar 27, 2015)

Fluffmeister said:


> People don't want to wait for the best performance... what is naive is thinking these people don't know that cheaper and faster products will come out some time in the future.
> 
> A fella on another forum i frequent just put a new rig together with four Titan X's, he seems happy with it.




Obviously there would be always faster and cheaper products, but for what we have seen for these GPU makers it is around a year-year and a half Im not saying to this people to wait for the next gen because it will be always a new next gen, Im talking about wait a few months for the release for the same product but cheaper, men if the rumors are true we are talking here about the 980ti with even better performance than the Titan X and if the same happens like past generations even less price just for wait a few months...


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## 64K (Mar 27, 2015)

Fluffmeister said:


> People don't want to wait for the best performance... what is naive is thinking these people don't know that cheaper and faster products will come out some time in the future.
> 
> A fella on another forum i frequent just put a new rig together with four Titan X's, he seems happy with it.



good lord! What kind of monitors setup is he using?



btarunr said:


> Just a reminder, Titan-X does not have full double-precision floating point.
> 
> So the only thing Titan-X will have going for it vs. GTX 990, is 12 GB memory.



hmmmm so you think the GM200/6GB will be called a GTX 990? Well, that makes more sense than 980 Ti since that links it in some people's mind to a fast 980 which it is not.


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## Captain_Tom (Mar 27, 2015)

theGryphon said:


> I'm pretty sure it will be a GM200 core with one or two of the clusters cut. It makes perfect sense not only to create value out of the chips that don't perform at full specs, but also to avoid cannibalizing Titan X. Something with this Titan X is that it's not the prosumer card the Titan brand used to represent. It's a glorified gaming card. If they let 980Ti be faster than Titan X, they would destroy the Titan brand for good.



The Titan Series was _always_ a glorified gaming card.  Period.

Nvidia is faced with a big dilemma right now:  Let Titan X remain their Top Dog and preserve the Titan Brand, or release the 980 Ti substantially stronger than it was meant to be and have a chance at trading blows with the 390X.

The thing is the 390X is likely to decimate the Titan X by 10-20% anways, so imo the Titan branding will be killed either way.  My guess is Nvidia will release two new cards: 

-985 as the cut die with 5+1GB of VRAM to compete with the 390, and then the 985 Ti full die to compete with the full 390X.


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## the54thvoid (Mar 27, 2015)

Captain_Tom said:


> The thing is the 390X is likely to decimate the Titan X by 10-20% anways, so imo the Titan branding will be killed either way.



Umm. Wasn't aware a 10% edge was tantamount to decimation.  Titan certainly doesn't decimate its little brother and that's 30%+.

390X needs to be (by your estimate) up to what, 70% faster than 290X to be 20% faster than Titan X.  I suppose we'll see in June.

Either way, win win for me and my next gfx purchase.


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## DinaAngel (Mar 27, 2015)

btarunr said:


> Just a reminder, Titan-X does not have full double-precision floating point.
> 
> So the only thing Titan-X will have going for it vs. GTX 990, is 12 GB memory.


until dx 12 comes out with shared memmory across cards


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 27, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> We're not, thank you.



Actually, @RyneSmith is correct. Even on TPU. Check out the GTX 980 hybrid announcement. There are several people on there saying Titan-X is the only full Maxwell, or saying that any talk of a cut down gm200 is fantasy, etc, etc. A bunch of clueless folks posting stuff like that in there. I gave up trying to educate them yesterday, only to be vindicated by the now unofficial "official" rumor later in the day.


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## 15th Warlock (Mar 27, 2015)

Both GPUs will have the same GM200 core, and putting it under water will always yield better performance than any 3rd party manufacturer cooler may be strapped to these cards. My card in particular already is 12~15% faster than vanilla Titan-X out of the box, so I can't wait to let it stretch its legs once I can get some water cooling on it 

Anyway, I find funny how a lot of fellow forumites start criticizing Titan -X owners, the card is here, now, and the fun of putting together a dream rig with these cards, and sharing the experience with you guys, is part of what compels me to post updates to my current rig build, but as a previous Titan owner, I knew a lot of hatred would be coming my way, been there, done that 

The way I see it, both the 980Ti and 390X will once again raise the bar in terms of performance, and if that performance can be available to more ppl (and therefor, game developers find new ways to further push the envelope) the better. I've said it many times before, this is an exciting time to be a PC gamer!

As for all the nasty comments towards Titan-X owners, bring it on  some ppl have been blessed to be able to afford the card right now (and trust me, I work really hard to earn my money) and it's always a fun experience to share building machines I only dreamed of back when I was in college. I came to this country with nothing but what little clothes I could fit in my luggage, and after working really hard for many years to get where I'm, splurging on these exotic cards and custom water coolers, is sort of like therapy to relax after a hard day at work.

The comments of people who have encouraged me to post more pics or show the progress when building my rigs, is reward enough for me to continue doing it, those people are the ones I consider my real friends in this community, you know who you guys are


----------



## Fluffmeister (Mar 27, 2015)

64K said:


> good lord! What kind of monitors setup is he using?



LG 34UM95-P and some SONY 4K TV apparently.



heydan83 said:


> Obviously there would be always faster and cheaper products, but for what we have seen for these GPU makers it is around a year-year and a half Im not saying to this people to wait for the next gen because it will be always a new next gen, Im talking about wait a few months for the release for the same product but cheaper, men if the rumors are true we are talking here about the 980ti with even better performance than the Titan X and if the same happens like past generations even less price just for wait a few months...



Oh I don't disagree, but like I said plenty of people don't want to wait, and history tells us the cards also sell just fine regardless. Besides the Titan X was ready, might as well sell it at a healthy price with the competition still months away.


----------



## Animalpak (Mar 27, 2015)

BarbaricSoul said:


> You really ought to sell stuff when you replace it. Costs a lot less that way, and you don't have to worry about storage space.
> 
> I bought my 780ti very shortly after it's release. Paid about $740 total for it. I have no regrets with that purchase and the card itself. The GTX 980ti and 390X are the first cards that has me thinking about upgrading my 780ti.
> 
> And about replacing it next Feb? Hell, I've had my ti since Dec 2013, and it looks like it will be another 4-5 months before this 980ti/390X will be released. That's getting close to two years of use and still staying in the top three single GPU performance level. The only single GPU card that clearly beats my 780ti is the 980, but only by around 5%. The 290x and the +1 ghz 780ti trades blows back and forth. It will be interesting to see what happens and which comes out on top when the next King of the Hill cards are released.




Its logic you get the best of your GPU only when you buy it at day one like you did ...

There are new graphics cards every year that is the problem.

The faster you enjoy the latest tech the better is.

The bad thing you buy at the premium price like the Titan X.

But who cares? The Titan X are sold like hotcakes today.

The success of Nvidia able to sell products at $ 1,000 and make believe that it is totally normal and routine to people.


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## N3M3515 (Mar 27, 2015)

Acording to http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/geforce-gtx-980-ti-has-3072-cuda-cores-and-6gb-of-gddr5.html 
The 980Ti should be on average 10% faster than titan x.
So it would be trading blows with the 390x if not surpasing it by a few % maybe.


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## Captain_Tom (Mar 27, 2015)

the54thvoid said:


> Umm. Wasn't aware a 10% edge was tantamount to decimation.  Titan certainly doesn't decimate its little brother and that's 30%+.
> 
> 390X needs to be (by your estimate) up to what, 70% faster than 290X to be 20% faster than Titan X.  I suppose we'll see in June.
> 
> Either way, win win for me and my next gfx purchase.



Early benchmarks are showing a 70% gain, and lol while I don't think the Titan X is strong enough it does crush the 980 by 30-40% which is A LOT.


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## 64K (Mar 27, 2015)

N3M3515 said:


> Acording to http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/geforce-gtx-980-ti-has-3072-cuda-cores-and-6gb-of-gddr5.html
> The 980Ti should be on average 10% faster than titan x.
> So it would be trading blows with the 390x if not surpasing it by a few % maybe.



Thanks for the link. Looks good to me. ~12% faster core clocks than Titan X right out of the box and with a decent non-reference cooler probably better overclocking potential versus Titan X overclocking without overheating and throttling like the Titan X.


----------



## vega22 (Mar 27, 2015)

Stockholm syndrome, more than just depression for the swedes.

great to see what a high end card from nvidia looks like.

the 780ti seems so long ago...


----------



## L337One91 (Mar 27, 2015)

20mmrain said:


> I can't mention how I know...but this card will not be faster than the Titan X. The GTX 980 ti will have less Ram and cost less (about $700) then the GTX titan X. Call me a lier if you want.... just remember you heard it here first.
> So for those who bought the new titan feel good about your purchase. However this card will not be released until AMD gets closer to releasing their R9 390X card.


 
Titan X Owner detected. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purchase_rationalization


----------



## Slizzo (Mar 27, 2015)

RCoon said:


> With Kepler, the 780ti replaced the 780 in the product stack's pricing point on release (when 780 released, it was £550, when the 780ti released, it was £550, and the 780 was reduced to compete based on its performance). I believe the same will happen with the 980 and ti variant. 980 will probably see a price reduction to compete with the 390X based on price/performance.
> 
> 
> 
> This is why the ti will be faster than the Titan X. AIB custom cards, better parts and better cooler, reducing or eliminating throttling from heat.



GTX780 released at $650. I bought one on release day. When the 780Ti launched it was $700, and the 780 got bumped down to $550.


----------



## RCoon (Mar 27, 2015)

Slizzo said:


> GTX780 released at $650. I bought one on release day. When the 780Ti launched it was $700, and the 780 got bumped down to $550.



I guess different countries' retailers got different deals


----------



## jabbadap (Mar 27, 2015)

Wonder if this could have 6GB/8Gbps memories...


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## the54thvoid (Mar 27, 2015)

15th Warlock said:


> *I find funny how a lot of fellow forumites start criticizing Titan -X owners*, the card is here, now, and the fun of putting together a dream rig with these cards, and sharing the experience with you guys, is part of what compels me to post updates to my current rig build, but as a previous Titan owner, I knew a lot of hatred would be coming my way, been there, done that




Well, it's because they're assholes dummy!


----------



## BorisDG (Mar 27, 2015)

15th Warlock said:


> Anyway, I find funny how a lot of fellow forumites start criticizing Titan -X owners


Because Titan card are sign of stupidity - pay 1k$ and some months later for almost half of the price, we have faster card.  I already feel bad about you.  Before we had at least double precision .. now only more gigs but for what?


----------



## 15th Warlock (Mar 27, 2015)

the54thvoid said:


> Well, it's because they're assholes dummy!



Yup, prime example can be found above this post 



BorisDG said:


> Because Titan card are sign of stupidity - pay 1k$ and some months later for almost half of the price, we have faster card.  I already feel bad about you.



Well, thank you very much for proving my point, I really appreciate you feeling bad about me, I already feel much better because of it, have a nice day sir


----------



## heydan83 (Mar 27, 2015)

15th Warlock said:


> Yup, prime example can be found above this post
> 
> 
> 
> Well, thank you very much for proving my point, I really appreciate you feeling bad about me, I already feel much better because of it, have a nice day sir





Hi, I dont want to offend anyone, I just want to give my opinion in the subject, and maybe I can be wrong, but I think that buying a Titan it is just to be buying a false label of "Enthusiast" or "The most powerful GPU on earth" attach with a ridiculous price that nvidia want to makes people to think and really feel that if they own this product they will be really enthusiasts, but I think that buying an expensive product doesn't make you a real enthusiast, I know people who doesn't have  the money to build an extreme rig, but they are passionate just by building a $700 dollar rig, by choosing wisely the components of their rigs with the knowledge for technology they have because that´s what they like to do. So I think a true enthusiast buys their components wisely and a true nvidia fan boy buys a titan.


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## d1nky (Mar 27, 2015)

@15thwarlock how do those titans power that monitor and is that monitor good gaming with gsync? thats like a dream build right there!

  hopefully this release will lower prices on everything else! 

p.s to the haters, have you seen the reviews/vids showing an oc'd titanx against sli980s and 4k.... jeez some power! let alone sli titanx!


----------



## RejZoR (Mar 27, 2015)

I just wish they won't waste performance gains just to add bunch of useless effects in games like they've done with stupid tessellation. Instead of keeping same visual fidelity and increasing performance with it, they ALL opted to churn 24759376837563964 billion polygons on fucking everything, dragging performance to new depths of hell. And we can barely see any in-game difference where performance benefits would mean more players would be able to enjoy games on weaker systems.

And I bet you, I bet you they'll do the same with DX12. Wooohooo, we got tons of extra power reserves, lets stick bunch of useless crap into games and make them equally slow as they were before DX12. They always do this kind of shit...


----------



## Cybrnook2002 (Mar 27, 2015)

15th Warlock said:


> Yup, prime example can be found above this post
> 
> 
> 
> Well, thank you very much for proving my point, I really appreciate you feeling bad about me, I already feel much better because of it, have a nice day sir


It's okay Warlock, I spend unnecessary amounts of $ on cards too. Mine arrived today (as if I need it)  - 2nd card is on the way. 

Will likely pick up a 390X when they drop too.


----------



## 15th Warlock (Mar 27, 2015)

Cybrnook2002 said:


> It's okay Warlock, I spend unnecessary amounts of $ on cards too. Mine arrived today (as if I need it)



Congrats on your new card! I'm pretty sure you'll love it, are you gonna put it under a water block also? 



heydan83 said:


> Hi, I dont want to offend anyone, I just want to give my opinion in the subject, and maybe I can be wrong, but I think that buying a Titan it is just to be buying a false label of "Enthusiast" or "The most powerful GPU on earth" attach with a ridiculous price that nvidia want to makes people to think and really feel that if they own this product they will be really enthusiasts, but I think that buying an expensive product doesn't make you a real enthusiast, I know people who doesn't have  the money to build an extreme rig, but they are passionate just by building a $700 dollar rig, by choosing wisely the components of their rigs with the knowledge for technology they have because that´s what they like to do. So I think a true enthusiast buys their components wisely and a true nvidia fan boy buys a titan.



Hi Heydan, yes, I understand what you're trying to say, but that doesn't mean spending more money on your rig means ppl are less passionate about their PCs.

It could be argued that ppl who spends thousands of dollars on exotic cars are just as passionate about their hobby as much as someone who invest weekends working under a car they've built with their own hands.

I'm not a believer of the word enthusiast defining only ppl who spend a certain amount of money on any given hobby. Also, I don't like throwing the word fanboy lightly, many ppl get the best cards from AMD and Nvidia alike, as well as play on consoles so if anything, would you call those ppl gaming fanboys?



d1nky said:


> @15thwarlock how do those titans power that monitor and is that monitor good gaming with gsync? thats like a dream build right there!
> 
> hopefully this release will lower prices on everything else!
> 
> p.s to the haters, have you seen the reviews/vids showing an oc'd titanx against sli980s and 4k.... jeez some power! let alone sli titanx!



That 4K monitor is awesome for gaming! To be honest with you I like it better than the swift.

And yes, this release, will lower the price of admittance for both AMD and Nvidia gamers, which is good all around 

Now that both AMD and Nvidia are focusing on adaptive frame sync, gaming on 4K monitors is more fluid than ever, and both the 980Ti and the 390X will make single GPU 4K gaming a reality at last


----------



## Cybrnook2002 (Mar 27, 2015)

15th Warlock said:


> Congrats on your new card! I'm pretty sure you'll love it, are you gonna put it under a water block also?


YOU KNOW IT!  Can't have my babies sitting at 84/86 C   I am shooting for 60's under load. Have my blocks on order from PPCS (Just came back in stock yesterday/today) So once they come in, I will test em out.

Side note, cant wait for the damn Acer Predator to drop... Ungh....


----------



## 15th Warlock (Mar 27, 2015)

Cybrnook2002 said:


> YOU KNOW IT!  Can't have my babies sitting at 84/86 C   I am shooting for 60's under load. Have my blocks on order form PPCS (Just can back in stock yesterday/today) So once they come in, I will test em out.
> 
> Side note, cant wait for the damn Acer Predator to drop... Ungh....



Yup, I think the NVTT cooler has finally reached the end of the line, and Maxwell begs to be put under water, my 980s scream at 1500MHz core speed well under 50 degrees under water!

Can't wait for my EK blocks to arrive, GM200 will be a monster of a GPU if properly cooled, both the Titan-X and 980Ti owners are in for one hell of a ride! 

And what Acer monitor are you referring to if I may ask?


----------



## Cybrnook2002 (Mar 27, 2015)

A good, and expensive, time to be a gamer/enthusiast


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## BorisDG (Mar 27, 2015)

All of your cards with Hynix memory? What about the ASIC quality of the chips?


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## Captain_Tom (Mar 28, 2015)

BorisDG said:


> Because Titan card are sign of stupidity - pay 1k$ and some months later for almost half of the price, we have faster card.  I already feel bad about you.  Before we had at least double precision .. now only more gigs but for what?


Bingo.  Sometimes people are made fun of for a reason.  You may see a halo product that everyone else wishes they had, but really what we see is some guy who fell for Nvidia's BS marketing.


----------



## johnspack (Mar 28, 2015)

Just get them out already.  I'm tired of my 480,  want a 970,  but don't want to pay 400 for the darn thing....  was going to pull on a 770 at almost 300 but then ncix cleared them out and replaced
with the 400+ 970s.  Always such a small margin of affordability when Canadian suppliers keep small stocks.....


----------



## Shihab (Mar 28, 2015)

I personally bet on the card being slower or equal to the Titan X. A safe bet would place it midway between the X and the 980. Assuming the folks at Nvidia aren't idiots enough to think 12GB of memory is the only marketing point it takes to sell a card. 

There's also the possibility that the 980Ti's GM200 be crippled in some aspect. Lower OC headroom, less/slower ROPs to limit performance at high resolutions (or so I believe the effect would be), etc, etc.



RejZoR said:


> I just wish they won't waste performance gains just to add bunch of useless effects in games like they've done with stupid tessellation.



Tessellation wasn't useless. Misused most of the time, but not useless. Heck, if applications such as Unigine Heaven's were to become mainstream, that would've been cool! 
Come to think of it, screw tessellation! Let every model be a high poly one! And while we are at it, let's path trace everything! Render at 4x native res! Physically simulate every hair strand! Infinite LoD!


----------



## ensabrenoir (Mar 28, 2015)

........the vast majority of Titan critics/haters don't get it...... Those who can afford to buy a titan do so because they want to and they can.....when something faster pops up......they'll buy it regardless of their Titan.   Its like buying a Bentley...... they are faster, better engineered even more luxurious cars out there........but regardless.....if you bought one...... you still got a Bentley.  This card don't belong in any conversation about price/performance.  Its just simply a prestige piece.  I'm looking to buy a first gen Titan....for double precision...


----------



## btarunr (Mar 28, 2015)

20mmrain said:


> I can't mention how I know...but this card will not be faster than the Titan X. The GTX 980 ti will have less Ram and cost less (about $700) then the GTX titan X. Call me a lier if you want.... just remember you heard it here first.
> So for those who bought the new titan feel good about your purchase. However this card will not be released until AMD gets closer to releasing their R9 390X card.



Something like MSI TF5-top or GBT WF3-450W will keep the GM200 well away from its 84C throttle, yielding more performance. Titan-X hits the thermal limit too often under heavy load, and NVIDIA restricts AICs from launching custom-design Titan_X (other than ones with factory-fitted water blocks (not AIO coolers)). Also GTX 990 factory-OC could make it faster than Titan-X. 6 GB vs. 12 GB doesn't matter. So yeah, anyone who's held off on a Titan-X purchase will buy the GTX 990, and have a great friday-night with the $350 saved.

Or if you're a nerd like me, you'd spend the $350 saved on choosing an X99 platform over a Z97 one, if you're building afresh.


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## Vlada011 (Mar 28, 2015)

It would be nice to NVIDIA launch GM200 with full CUDA only cheaper. But 6GB is nothing special.
Only someone who have more than 6-8GB can use cards 2-3 years. OK custom models are advantage, but now in some games GTX980 is on edge of limits.
If someone pay SLI he will stay without video memory with 20-30% GPU power unused. Because of that TITAN X is better investment than GTX980 SLI.
Even for 2 years TITAN X owners could play games with x2 AA or AA Off with 5-6-7GB memory usage if need. 
From other side if game need 4.-4.2GB 100 fps will look as 20. Cards as TITAN X are always good and I would not think at all on some 6GB version only TITAN X is expensive. And price is special high for Europe. 
I don't like only because last weeks every 2 days some new rumor or possible project from AMD show up on net and nothing from their card. 
They can't move attention from TITAN X on that way, without R9-390X on table.


----------



## RejZoR (Mar 28, 2015)

Shihabyooo said:


> I personally bet on the card being slower or equal to the Titan X. A safe bet would place it midway between the X and the 980. Assuming the folks at Nvidia aren't idiots enough to think 12GB of memory is the only marketing point it takes to sell a card.
> 
> There's also the possibility that the 980Ti's GM200 be crippled in some aspect. Lower OC headroom, less/slower ROPs to limit performance at high resolutions (or so I believe the effect would be), etc, etc.
> 
> ...



Tessellation was meant as a more fluid replacement to multistage LOD. Instead they degenerated it entirely into something that always made performance horrible with hardly any visual benefits.


----------



## ISI300 (Mar 28, 2015)

BorisDG said:


> Because Titan card are sign of stupidity - pay 1k$ and some months later for almost half of the price, we have faster card.  I already feel bad about you.  Before we had at least double precision .. now only more gigs but for what?


Can't tell if you're serious. With that logic, anybody who is willing to pay 1 mil for a Ferrari the Ferrari is stupid.
I would prefer the term money-enabled.
You can't blame people for having the money to spend on s**t they want to have, that's the rule of the land. And if I or you are unable to do the same calling out the people who can "stupid" is the most knee-jerk reaction you could possibly come up with.


----------



## the54thvoid (Mar 28, 2015)

Captain_Tom said:


> Bingo.  Sometimes people are made fun of for a reason.  You may see a halo product that everyone else wishes they had, but really what we see is some guy who fell for Nvidia's BS marketing.



I hope AMD pull through for you in Summer, I really do. 

FTR, Titan X is the current halo product. I'm not willing to shell out for one, though I can quite easily afford to do so.

I'm holding off till June for AMD to destroy Nvidia. Then I'll buy their magical product.  I'll even but it if its as much as the Titan.

But for now, Titan is the go to card and if you want to buy it, that's the buyers choice. If you want to keep crying about it and offend those that want to buy THE fastest single GPU on the planet, then you're obviously out of your little tech mind.
I think in your honour I'll upgrade to the next 1000 dollar Intel chip and sli Titans, just to hear you cry some more.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 28, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> Tessellation was meant as a more fluid replacement to multistage LOD. Instead they degenerated it entirely into something that always made performance horrible with hardly any visual benefits.



Why? What's happened?


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 28, 2015)

ISI300 said:


> Can't tell if you're serious. With that logic, anybody who is willing to pay 1 mil for a Ferrari the Ferrari is stupid.
> I would prefer the term money-enabled.
> You can't blame people for having the money to spend on s**t they want to have, that's the rule of the land. And if I or you are unable to do the same calling out the people who can "stupid" is the most knee-jerk reaction you could possibly come up with.




My sentinments exactly.  Well put...

...And I can't afford a Titan for the record.



Sony Xperia S said:


> Why? What's happened?



They sprayed it all over everything like they had a spray can with unlimited capacity, killing performance.


----------



## BiggieShady (Mar 28, 2015)

The problem here is that they are cherry picking the best GM200 dies for the cheaper card ... more expensive card for professionals gets less overclock-able chips


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 28, 2015)

People who whine about other people who spent money on a top-tier product really do suffer from a lack of vision above anything else.

These people do not realise that the top tier products are the ones that enable progress for future generations. Look at the Tesla S, for example. Marketed and sold as a top tier product, early adopters pay the investment for the future, including all the technological advances it brings in refueling/charging stations, infrastructure, etc. etc.

Similarly, Titan X has the price it has because it is the first iteration of a big chip, one that will suffer from lower yields especially early in its lifetime. The high price on Titan X pays for the fully enable GTX parts later down the line. And it has a healthy margin because it is a top tier product. Early adopters ALWAYS pay the highest price and always suffer the majority of problems. Their payoff is 'being first', nothing else. They get to pioneer new technological advances. The value of this is very personal.

Don't get me wrong, I always frown at paying 1k for a GPU, or buying a car at half the price of a house. But I have learned that 'I' am never the common denominator, nobody really is. Once you learn this you can look at products and prices normally and see how every price point / product niche has its market.

About GTX 980 ti / 990.... yeah. Been there done that, nothing new, 980ti will be faster than Titan X in actual gaming and still be cheaper, there is a difference in DP performance between Kepler and Maxwell, and none of it really matters to anyone. All these cards still have a market, simply because they are going to get kicked down the line in the future. GK110 still sells today for obvious reasons, hell even Titans sell today because, again, there is a niche for them still and the new generation has made them more affordable. One or two years from now we will have the exact same discussion with the exact same conclusion.


----------



## ypsylon (Mar 28, 2015)

I was planning on getting 980 or 970 then decided to wait what AMD will show. It should be a cracker.  I always was in the green camp (I hate red color  ), but if new 3xx series is as good or better (both performance and power efficiency) I will defo consider a switch.


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 28, 2015)

ypsylon said:


> I was planning on getting 980 or 970 then decided to wait what AMD will show. It should be a cracker.  I always was in the green camp (I hate red color  ), but if new 3xx series is as good or better (both performance and power efficiency) I will defo consider a switch.



I can safely say to you: performance will be greater than Titan X, power efficiency will be worse than Titan X. Performance/watt might get close but AMD will still be slightly behind on that too. Pricing will be around the 800 dollar mark and drop quickly after we see a 980ti released at a similar price point.

In addition, the first couple of months of release the R9 390(x) will have broken drivers. After that all will be fine.

Mark my words.


----------



## renz496 (Mar 28, 2015)

CTMxGMG said:


> What should a Titan X owner would feel after reading this...



nothing? AFAIK they should well aware what they getting at. even nvidia did not hide the fact that titan x will have weak DP during their official presentation at GDC 2015. and after what happen to the original titan and GTX780 i think most people buying titan x know what to expect.


----------



## renz496 (Mar 28, 2015)

NC37 said:


> Meh, GM series is all overpriced. I refuse to buy nVidia again *until 04s are in the x60 models.* Which won't happen this year. The only decent GM series is the 970 and nVidia botched that by cutting corners.
> 
> Think next GPU will be AMD. 460s have hit their limit with Star Citizen and I'm feeling the upgrade itch. Been a good run with nVidia tho. Probably the longest time I've been with either of them. Come on AMD, gimmie some good deals in June.



and probably not anytime soon. heck probably will never again if AMD did not step up their pace.


----------



## Uplink10 (Mar 28, 2015)

@Vayra86
Do not compare Tesla Motors to Nvidia. They want to change the world and do not want only money like Nvidia. You can be sure if Tesla Motors had the same market share like Nvidia in video card market they would not sell overpriced products as Nvidia does. This is like comparing apples to oranges.


----------



## Tsukiyomi91 (Mar 28, 2015)

@64K well, we have to see whether AIB vendors will use their popular cooling solutions for the 980 Ti not just to give more headroom, but also to ensure that thermal limits are not so easily reached under OCed mode. For the Titan X case, one of the few reasons why it throttled was the paint. Using black powder coat may give it a cool look, but at the same time it absorbs heat faster, so no surprise there when the card starts to lower it's clock speeds. Maybe a custom watercooler kit could be the only way to keep it cool as liquid-cooling VGA cards is becoming a trend in the PC modding scene. Anyways, I dun think we'll be seeing another dual GPU card real soon unless vendors like ASUS ROG did it again like their MARS VGA card for example.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Mar 28, 2015)

@Uplink10: "Overpriced" is such a petty word that oozes with envy and resentment. Nvidia cards are not overpriced. They are priced to what people will pay for them. If they were truly overpriced, they would not be successful as a business model. If anything, you should be upset with the masses that are perfectly willing to pay Nvidia's prices.


----------



## Ferrum Master (Mar 28, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> @Uplink10: "Overpriced" is such a petty word that oozes with envy and resentment. Nvidia cards are not overpriced. They are priced to what people will pay for them. If they were truly overpriced, they would not be successful as a business model. If anything, you should be upset with the masses that are perfectly willing to pay Nvidia's prices.



The right thing to say is we are gaining too small for the dough we leave in GPU department... At last the 980ti is solid 2 times faster than a 7970... during the old days we were used to such boost every time we upgrade... there are 3 years past since the debut of Tahiti.

There is kind of empty unsatisfied feeling when taking more expensive card... and yet the gains are kind of... not worthy... For example like 7970 vs 290x was really... same 680 vs 780... OK Ti wasn't bad, but still it ain't a double. The tendency to make a second tier card as flagship for while is irritating.


----------



## 64K (Mar 28, 2015)

Uplink10 said:


> @Vayra86
> Do not compare Tesla Motors to Nvidia. They want to change the world and do not want only money like Nvidia. You can be sure if Tesla Motors had the same market share like Nvidia in video card market they would not sell overpriced products as Nvidia does. This is like comparing apples to oranges.



Have a look at this

Net Profit Margins

Intel +20.95%

Nvidia +13.47%

AMD -7.32%

AMD will be bankrupt if they continue the way they are. Yes, you enjoy getting GPUs from AMD for less money but do you see where that is taking AMD? Red is not just their trademark color, it's also the color of ink in their financial statements. They are in debt currently for the same amount as their Market Cap and are struggling to service their current debt and will only need to borrow more to continue.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 28, 2015)

Vayra86 said:


> People who whine about other people who spent money on a top-tier product really do suffer from a lack of vision above anything else.
> 
> These people do not realise that the top tier products are the ones that enable progress for future generations. Look at the Tesla S, for example. Marketed and sold as a top tier product, early adopters pay the investment for the future, including all the technological advances it brings in refueling/charging stations, infrastructure, etc. etc.....................



This is painfully wrong and not fair.

Progress for future generations is allowed by all the money flowing through a company. The profit comes from all products, you are basically saying that the high volume mainstream products don't contribute at all or are not of so heavy importance. Which is basically wrong.

A company can drive its progress and in general progress even without profit at all. They just need to be at the zero point where their costs equal their incomes.
The huge amounts of profit are for the greedy to buy yachts, personal airplanes, to waste time and money on expensive unnecessary extras.

I do not know how that gave you all the thanks for nonsense.



rtwjunkie said:


> @Uplink10: "Overpriced" is such a petty word that oozes with envy and resentment. Nvidia cards are not overpriced. They are priced to what people will pay for them. If they were truly overpriced, they would not be successful as a business model. If anything, you should be upset with the masses that are perfectly willing to pay Nvidia's prices.



Look, nvidia is practically or close to a market with monopoly or duopoly. People simply have NO CHOICE. Because they are hardcore fanboys and don't wanna hear about AMD.

In that caase, yes, nvidia's products are extremely overpriced and the business model is working because technically there is no alternative from elsewhere.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Mar 28, 2015)

and obviously AMD's business model is not working. If they keep lowballing prices they will be out of business, as @64K pointed out. That's not good for anyone.

People still have a choice. They can always buy AMD, or choose not to buy the top-tier Nvidia products and buy mid-range. Bottom line is ANY well run business is about making a profit, and will always charge what people are willing to pay. If the day comes when people refuse to buy a $1,000 GPU come then Nvidia won't charge that much.


----------



## 15th Warlock (Mar 28, 2015)

BorisDG said:


> All of your cards with Hynix memory? What about the ASIC quality of the chips?



Hynix:






The ASIC quality on mine is 72.3


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 28, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> People still have a choice. They can always buy AMD, or choose not to buy the top-tier Nvidia products and buy mid-range.



That's an illusion for choice, not a real choice. My real choice to have a deal for 500$ for the TitanX. When the company doesn't deliver this and offer me an underperfoming product for this money, then the most natural thing is to be unhappy about that.

All is enforced by the governments and those who "lead the way" and if they don't give you Titan X for 1000$, they would prefer to throw it to the trash instead of giving it away at fair prices.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Mar 28, 2015)

@Sony Xperia S: I've said it before, I wish you'd study economics. The definition of "fair price" is- "The price, as of a commodity or service, at which both buyers and sellers agree to do business.".

That condition exists now. If it didn't, Nvidia wouldn't make a profit.


----------



## ensabrenoir (Mar 28, 2015)

Ferrum Master said:


> The right thing to say is we are gaining too small for the dough we leave in GPU department... At last the 980ti is solid 2 times faster than a 7970... during the old days we were used to such boost every time we upgrade... there are 3 years past since the debut of Tahiti.
> 
> There is kind of empty unsatisfied feeling when taking more expensive card... and yet the gains are kind of... not worthy... For example like 7970 vs 290x was really... same 680 vs 780... OK Ti wasn't bad, but still it ain't a double. The tendency to make a second tier card as flagship for while is irritating.



While everything you said is true... both manufacturers aren't making gpus that are yearly upgrades of each other.  Intel is doing the same thing.  Those who buy yearly can because they can but they know they're getting <10% performance increase.  Honestly there should only be new cpus and gpus every 2-3 years to justify the price/performance increase.


----------



## Prima.Vera (Mar 28, 2015)

The question is, why to pay for an over expensive video card, if there are 0 quality games out there to require such investment?
The best game released this year, "Pillars of Eternity", can run even on a budget video card from 2 years ago with full details, while the graphics and gameplay is still splendid.
So again, why?


----------



## the54thvoid (Mar 28, 2015)

Prima.Vera said:


> The question is, why to pay for an over expensive video card, if there are 0 quality games out there to require such investment?
> The best game released this year, "Pillars of Eternity", can run even on a budget video card from 2 years ago with full details, while the graphics and gameplay is still splendid.
> So again, why?



Because The Witcher III


----------



## ensabrenoir (Mar 28, 2015)

Prima.Vera said:


> The question is, why to pay for an over expensive video card, if there are 0 quality games out there to require such investment?
> The best game released this year, "Pillars of Eternity", can run even on a budget video card from 2 years ago with full details, while the graphics and gameplay is still splendid.
> So again, why?



Human nature..... we jump out of airplanes, climb mountains and buy 500bhp cars with a top speed of 190mph to drive on roads with a 55mph speed limit.  It doesn't make sense but its ok.....because we're human.  The Titan is a prestige/ Halo product thats awesome but not cost effective.  Just like a Rolex.  You can get one for $30,000.00..... yes a wrist watch that cnt do anything other that tell time and sparkle...


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 28, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> @Sony Xperia S: I've said it before, I wish you'd study economics. The definition of "fair price" is- "The price, as of a commodity or service, at which both buyers and sellers agree to do business.".
> 
> That condition exists now. If it didn't, Nvidia wouldn't make a profit.



Economics in general is a dirty area all by human "laws", or all artificial. Laws enforced by those who have the weapons.

There are businesses, and of course you would not mention them, in which the buyer sets the rules and the seller is always on the losing side. And they have no choice because they will lose the business once and for all.

Try, for instance with automotive industry suppliers and automotive manufacturers.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Mar 28, 2015)

I mention nothing except the accepted principles of economics. If, as in your example the seller is always on the losing side, it's still the fair price, because that is what both sides agree to conduct the transaction at. Your ignorance of economics is apparently limitless.


----------



## the54thvoid (Mar 28, 2015)

ensabrenoir said:


> Human nature..... we jump out of airplanes, climb mountains and buy 500bhp cars with a top speed of 190mph to drive on roads with a 55mph speed limit.  It doesn't make sense but its ok.....because we're human.  The Titan is a prestige/ Halo product thats awesome but not cost effective.  Just like a Rolex.  You can get one for $30,000.00..... yes a wrist watch that cnt do anything other that tell time and sparkle...



Almost exactly.  Except a Rolex wrist watch does not tell time better than a quartz digital watch. In fact the only relative analogy really is the CPU equivalent, the 5960 versus 5930.  One is marginally better (or greatly better for massively threaded ops) but for other purposes, they are both very much indistinguishable.  Titan to 980 is very similar but less so.  However, the fps jump at 4k (in BF4 for example) is 29.1-38.8 (33% improvement - or comparing to 290X, a 53% increase).  Arguably the increase in fps doesn't match the price increase but it's still what you need to pay for the pleasure.



rtwjunkie said:


> I mention nothing except the accepted principles of economics. If, as in your example the seller is always on the losing side, it's still the fair price, because that is what both sides agree to conduct the transaction at. Your ignorance of economics is apparently limitless.



lol, I'm assuming you're replying to someone whose posts I can't see anymore


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 28, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> I mention nothing except the accepted principles of economics. If, as in your example the seller is always on the losing side, it's still the fair price, because that is what both sides agree to conduct the transaction at. Your ignorance of economics is apparently limitless.



So because they agree, it means that they are both happy and it's fair?! 

Oki.


----------



## 64K (Mar 28, 2015)

Ferrum Master said:


> The right thing to say is we are gaining too small for the dough we leave in GPU department... At last the 980ti is solid 2 times faster than a 7970... during the old days we were used to such boost every time we upgrade... there are 3 years past since the debut of Tahiti.
> 
> There is kind of empty unsatisfied feeling when taking more expensive card... and yet the gains are kind of... not worthy... For example like 7970 vs 290x was really... same 680 vs 780... OK Ti wasn't bad, but still it ain't a double. The tendency to make a second tier card as flagship for while is irritating.



We are not seeing an upgrade in performance that we have become accustomed to from a new generation but Nvidia is not to blame for that. TSMC is to blame for fumbling the 20nm process which Maxwell was supposed to be on. The greater efficiency would have allowed for more performance for the same watts.

The bottom line is that it cost just as much in engineering, research, staff, facilities, cost of manufacturing GPU, supplying board partners with GPUs etc to bring us the Keplers as it did to bring us the Maxwells and that is why Nvidia is charging the same price for the Maxwells even though they are not as large of a performance increase as we are used to generation over generation.


----------



## GhostRyder (Mar 28, 2015)

Well, I'm surprised we are already hearing anything rumor or not about the fabled GTX 980ti (or GTX 990?). Seems like that was a quick run over all for Titan X but then again people this is all just rumors for the most part and not an actual release.  They are probably waiting at least a month or so before releasing (most likely coinciding with R9 390X) unless they want to immediately butcher Titan X sales which is doubtful since Nvidia is smarter than that (I bet I know quite a few people who would return Titan X almost immediately is the release was close at hand).

I hope they choose the GTX 990 name over 980ti personally as they need to spread the two GPUs further apart in my opinion.

Also, anyone saying Titan X is more for the professional world and not marketed for gaming needs to read the box.




It's only major professional aspect is the ram which is good for people who do rendering for instance. (Not saying a box label is the only metric but it does point the card more one direction)


----------



## BiggieShady (Mar 28, 2015)

People are dissing Titan X for not having specific double precision cores and the double precision is so rarely used that it makes perfect sense not to add DP cores keeping homogeneous architecture and simpler scheduling that made Maxwell architecture so efficient (since they've pushed the power envelope and they are cleverly keeping Titan Z at its price for its DP capabilities).
They realized most of the compute is done in video content creation, where billions of frames need to be rendered to finish the movie, these studios are always looking to have faster iteration of their production process.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 28, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> So because they agree, it means that they are both happy and it's fair?!
> 
> Oki.



Uh...  yeah?  That's kind what agreement means.

You act like NVIDIA is running into peoples houses, grabbing their wads of cash while they sleep and leaving Titan X's under their pillows.


----------



## 64K (Mar 28, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Uh...  yeah?  That's kind what agreement means.
> 
> You act like NVIDIA is running into peoples houses, grabbing their wads of cash while they sleep and leaving Titan X's under their pillows.



lol Don't get Sony Xperia wound up or we will have a lecture about how businesses are evil because they want money and how Jesus ran the merchants out.


----------



## nolafotoknut (Mar 28, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> There are businesses, and of course you would not mention them, in which the buyer sets the rules and the seller is always on the losing side. And they have no choice because they will lose the business once and for all.


There is no business in business to not make money unless it's a non profit organization!  Fair market value is what a buyer is willing to pay and the seller is willing to sell!  Sellers know their bottom line on what they need to make money.  As for your example, the automotive industry, the MSRP is the manufacturers suggested retail price, dealerships may sell below this price; however, they will still make money in the end.


----------



## BorisDG (Mar 28, 2015)

15th Warlock said:


> Hynix:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


PCI-E 2.0 wut?


----------



## nolafotoknut (Mar 28, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> So because they agree, it means that they are both happy and it's fair?!


Then Nvidia is fair!


----------



## the54thvoid (Mar 28, 2015)

64K said:


> lol Don't get Sony Xperia wound up or we will have a lecture about how businesses are evil because they want money and how Jesus ran the merchants out.


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 28, 2015)

Uplink10 said:


> @Vayra86
> Do not compare Tesla Motors to Nvidia. They want to change the world and do not want only money like Nvidia. You can be sure if Tesla Motors had the same market share like Nvidia in video card market they would not sell overpriced products as Nvidia does. This is like comparing apples to oranges.



Do you have ANY idea how naive that sounds?

Some years back people said this very same thing about 'do no evil' Google.
Elon Musk is a businessman. Businessmen want to make money, and they also know that premium product lines have the highest margins. It really is that simple. The fact that you can't see through his business strategy and that he touts it as a 'do no evil' strategy, only says something about your insight and how effective his strategy really is.

He is pushing electric driving on all fronts because he KNOWS he will sell more Tesla's in the long run if they are supported by a strong ecosystem.

Wake up.

@Sony Experia S: I am not even going into this cesspit of disaster with you. It is pointless. Flagships are the cards that sell a company and the rest of its product lines. The effect is an indirect sale, not necessarily selling all those flagship products themselves. Economics.


----------



## 15th Warlock (Mar 28, 2015)

BorisDG said:


> PCI-E 2.0 wut?



If you click the link in my Sig you can see I was testing my card on my X79 as there's no point in tearing my X99 water loop apart until my new EK blocks arrive.

Satisfied now? 



the54thvoid said:


> Because The Witcher III



You took the words right out of my mouth man!


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 28, 2015)

Vayra86 said:


> Flagships are the cards that sell a company and the rest of its product lines.



Wrong. And you will think more deeply to say why.



Vayra86 said:


> Economics.



Bullcrap.


----------



## arbiter (Mar 28, 2015)

If 390x has performance of 980TI would i would expect both would be about neck and neck. Issue for AMD is they have been playing catch up last many years on top of trying to look like good on pricing side, they have priced themself into where they are. If 390x performance is around were 980ti is, being 28nm part as well, going by history i would expect 350 to maybe as much as 400watt part to keep pace, So they end up might having to underclock it to get power down. Don't think DX12 even though AMD loves idea to help their cpu's could in end up being double edge sword for AMD as it will mean increased power draw as cpu will run more near max. That could be something to compare similar cpu class and gpu amd rig vs intel/nvidia


----------



## BorisDG (Mar 28, 2015)

15th Warlock said:


> If you click the link in my Sig you can see I was testing my card on my X79


Weird. Mine works on PCI-E 3.0 also X79.


----------



## the54thvoid (Mar 28, 2015)

Off topic but related to the competition:


http://fudzilla.com/news/graphics/37373-amd-fiji-has-two-gpus

Tag as rumour from unreliable source but as a discussion point it makes a heck of a lot of sense.

Started thread for frenzied discussion.

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/is-fiji-xt-a-dual-gpu.211101/


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 28, 2015)

Yeah, sure 

Wondering why AMD would need to launch a dual_GPU card slower than Vesuvius....


----------



## 15th Warlock (Mar 28, 2015)

BorisDG said:


> Weird. Mine works on PCI-E 3.0 also X79.



It does if you add a registry patch to force gen 3 PCIe on X79, as it is not officially supported by Nvidia for that particular chip set.

I've done it in the past, when I had quad SLI 680s, but for two cards I didn't notice any performance difference, so I haven't bothered to apply the patch in a long time, not since last I formated this rig, at least.


----------



## lilunxm12 (Mar 28, 2015)

15th Warlock said:


> It does if you add a registry patch to force gen 3 PCIe on X79, as it is not officially supported by Nvidia for that particular chip set.
> 
> I've done it in the past, when I had quad SLI 680s, but for two cards I didn't notice any performance difference, so I haven't bothered to apply the patch in a long time, not since last I formated this rig, at least.


My 4930k rig shows 3.0 without any modification.
It should be an issue tied to snb-e not x79. AFAIK, snb-e is capable to achieve 8GT/s howerver it's not officially certified so NVIDIA chooses to disable pcie 3.0 on snb-e systems.


----------



## Uplink10 (Mar 28, 2015)

Prima.Vera said:


> The question is, why to pay for an over expensive video card, if there are 0 quality games out there to require such investment?
> The best game released this year, "Pillars of Eternity", can run even on a budget video card from 2 years ago with full details, while the graphics and gameplay is still splendid.
> So again, why?


This. You are absolutely right. DX12 would enable use to ran new and old video games on older hardware but the publishers probably won`t urge developers to make remastered old games (Crysis series,Skyrim, COD series,...) with DX12. Right now buying new graphic cards is pointless, wait till 2016 to see what publishers and developers decide and on new AMD CPUs.



the54thvoid said:


> Because The Witcher III


While Wither 3 is a great game, developers decided not to update it to DX12 which is a disappointment.



Vayra86 said:


> Elon Musk is a businessman. Businessmen want to make money, and they also know that premium product lines have the highest margins.


Elon Musk is not your tipical billionare, if he was he would not do that:
http://www.nextpowerup.com/news/9618/tesla-opens-car-design-patents.html
He want`s all people to use the electric cars and that is why he is supporting this kind of action.


----------



## 15th Warlock (Mar 29, 2015)

lilunxm12 said:


> My 4930k rig shows 3.0 without any modification.
> It should be an issue tied to snb-e not x79. AFAIK, snb-e is capable to achieve 8GT/s howerver it's not officially certified so NVIDIA chooses to disable pcie 3.0 on snb-e systems.



Yes, you're absolutely right, it is a limitation of Sandy Bridge E processors, on the X79 platform. Ivy Bridge doesn't have that problem.

PCIe 3.0 can in fact be used for SB-E when using the registry patch I mentioned.

Just haven't got around double clicking and adding the patch to my registry, is it really that big of an issue?


----------



## hemm (Mar 29, 2015)

GhostRyder said:


> Well, I'm surprised we are already hearing anything rumor or not about the fabled GTX 980ti (or GTX 990?). Seems like that was a quick run over all for Titan X but then again people this is all just rumors for the most part and not an actual release.  They are probably waiting at least a month or so before releasing (most likely coinciding with R9 390X) unless they want to immediately butcher Titan X sales which is doubtful since Nvidia is smarter than that (I bet I know quite a few people who would return Titan X almost immediately is the release was close at hand).
> 
> I hope they choose the GTX 990 name over 980ti personally as they need to spread the two GPUs further apart in my opinion.
> 
> ...



990Ti is more likely for a 3072sp chip,leave 990 for the 2560sp one.


----------



## Prima.Vera (Mar 29, 2015)

ensabrenoir said:


> Human nature..... we jump out of airplanes, climb mountains and buy 500bhp cars with a top speed of 190mph to drive on roads with a 55mph speed limit.  It doesn't make sense but its ok.....because we're human.  The Titan is a prestige/ Halo product thats awesome but not cost effective.  Just like a Rolex.  You can get one for $30,000.00..... yes a wrist watch that cnt do anything other that tell time and sparkle...


While I can agree with this, however there are some slight differences. For example I buy a sport car not only for the engine power, but also for the looks, engine sound, etc. With the video card, I just stick it inside the case and done. Nobody will know what is it or how it looks like . Same for the watch, I only pay 30K for the looks not for the functionality. 
We cannot say the same about a boring video card used exclusively only for its GPU.


----------



## N3M3515 (Mar 29, 2015)

Whoever said that amd is doing bad because they sell cheaper than nvidia is dead wrong.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Mar 29, 2015)

N3M3515 said:


> Whoever said that amd is doing bad because they sell cheaper than nvidia is dead wrong.



Actually, no one said that. Those of us that follow businesses and economics know there are multiple bad business decisions that put them in the hole.

However, money continues to pour out of the company like water from a pipe. In order to stop bleeding money they have tried layoffs, firings, and cut way back on R&D. The only thing left to them is to charge what their cards are worth. Yet they don't. What do they do? They slash prices. All that does is increase sales for the short run, and cut profits even further in the long run. AMD still is paying on the acquisition of ATI I believe. Since they can't even pay that off, they keep refinancing. They won't be able to do that much longer. They need to be selling their cards at a higher price point, because short of being bought by another corporation, or making a higher profit from an increased GPU price point, they will slide further and further into the red.


----------



## TheGuruStud (Mar 29, 2015)

Vayra86 said:


> Do you have ANY idea how naive that sounds?
> 
> Some years back people said this very same thing about 'do no evil' Google.
> Elon Musk is a businessman. Businessmen want to make money, and they also know that premium product lines have the highest margins. It really is that simple. The fact that you can't see through his business strategy and that he touts it as a 'do no evil' strategy, only says something about your insight and how effective his strategy really is.
> ...



There is one difference. No one else will use their own money to fund their ventures LOL. He at least has the balls to drop 2 billion b/c he believes in it. No one at Nvidia, even if they were a billionaire, believes in it. They are there to cash in and nothing more.


----------



## qubit (Mar 29, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Actually, no one said that. Those of us that follow businesses and economics know there are multiple bad business decisions that put them in the hole.
> 
> However, money continues to pour out of the company like water from a pipe. In order to stop bleeding money they have tried layoffs, firings, and cut way back on R&D. The only thing left to them is to charge what their cards are worth. Yet they don't. What do they do? They slash prices. All that does is increase sales for the short run, and cut profits even further in the long run. AMD still is paying on the acquisition of ATI I believe. Since they can't even pay that off, they keep refinancing. They won't be able to do that much longer. They need to be selling their cards at a higher price point, because short of being bought by another corporation, or making a higher profit from an increased GPU price point, they will slide further and further into the red.


They still haven't paid for ATI? WTF?!  AMD sounds like a basket case.

I didn't know they were haemorrhaging money that badly. How did they manage to survive until now? No wonder Samsung is looking to buy them (rumoured). They really need some better top management that will let their engineers breath and design the products they want to without annoying penny-pinching which hurts performance and sales. Two examples are those useless stock coolers that cause the cards to throttle and make noise, plus the stupid siamesed shared resource module design of their CPUs since Bulldozer which slows them down.


----------



## Ebo (Mar 29, 2015)

Ive just finished reading all 144 comment, uha it took some time.

Titan X is a primium card, so the price is fair since people are willing to pay it. I dosent really matter if GFX 980TI or GFX 990(whatever name its going to get) is faster, spends less power, its about having the best of the best for the time being.

If R9 390X is going to be that beast, everybody expects(myself included) and can deliver grafics on par or even better than Titan X, then the price dosent really matter to me. 
It would be very nice if the price could be down just about the 700 dollar mark, but even if it costs 800, for me that dosent matter if the preformance is there.

The way I read it, is some people have commented that the price is too high for top tier cards, thats wrong in my book. 
They want top preformance but dosent want to pay the price it costs, well to me thats their problem. 

That being said, I get a bit offended by them, because Im cabable and willing to pay the money for a top product, IF price/preformance makes sense to me.

Envy is an ugly feeling, so if you cant or you wont pay the price, you have to settle for something less, simple as that, still that dosent give you the right to tell other people who can pay a 1000 dollars for a GFX, that they have done something wrong, they can still spend their money the way the want, who are you to judge.


----------



## RejZoR (Mar 29, 2015)

Prima.Vera said:


> While I can agree with this, however there are some slight differences. For example I buy a sport car not only for the engine power, but also for the looks, engine sound, etc. With the video card, I just stick it inside the case and done. Nobody will know what is it or how it looks like . Same for the watch, I only pay 30K for the looks not for the functionality.
> We cannot say the same about a boring video card used exclusively only for its GPU.



If you buy high end graphic cards just to brag around, you're doing it wrong. I buy new graphic cards because a certain technology interests me and because they deliver the performance I need. Especially if it's a tech that doesn't require special coding for it to function. Like EQAA, MLAA, FXAA, DSR/VSR, stuff that works everywhere, even in older games. Don't really care much about proprietary stuff where it takes several years before anyone even decides to use it and you never get the chance to experience it in games that have already been released.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 29, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> I buy new graphic cards because



I buy a new graphics card when I see that the deal is excellent for me and if there are heavy promotions.

For example - the Radeon HD 4890 when it was the top dog for only ~195$. 

A card for 1000$ (or even 550$ for that matter) will never be a go even if it could do blow jobs....


----------



## RejZoR (Mar 29, 2015)

I disagree. There are people who actually need such setups. For example, TotalBiscuit has dual GTX 980. But he does gaming reviews pretty much for a living. It's similar as buying expensive excavators, because you know you'll make money with them and they'll be reliable. Or if you're a businessman who spends half of his life on road, you naturally buy a higher end car for better comfort and safety. But you don't need excavator if you just want to do something tiny in your garden or buy a 100k saloon for a job that is 4 kilometers from your home...


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 29, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> I disagree. There are people who actually need such setups. For example, TotalBiscuit has dual GTX 980. But he does gaming reviews pretty much for a living. It's similar as buying expensive excavators, because you know you'll make money with them and they'll be reliable. Or if you're a businessman who spends half of his life on road, you naturally buy a higher end car for better comfort and safety. But you don't need excavator if you just want to do something tiny in your garden or buy a 100k saloon for a job that is 4 kilometers from your home...



I also have my personal needs for entertainment. But not at any cost.

I am saying that they are evil, shit and assholes not for nothing but because they never respect your salary amount and that you have plenty of other needs and costs and 99% of them are more important - like travelling, health, other entertainments, food, other electronic appliances for home, etc.


----------



## R-T-B (Mar 29, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> I also have my personal needs for entertainment. But not at any cost.
> 
> I am saying that they are evil, shit and assholes not for nothing but because they never respect your salary amount and that you have plenty of other needs and costs and 99% of them are more important - like travelling, health, other entertainments, food, other electronic appliances for home, etc.



Did you even read what you quoted?  We aren't talking about for entertainment.  His justification was that some people need such boards for a LIVING.  As in, for their very jobs.


----------



## 64K (Mar 29, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> I also have my personal needs for entertainment. But not at any cost.
> 
> I am saying that they are evil, shit and assholes not for nothing but because they never respect your salary amount and that you have plenty of other needs and costs and 99% of them are more important - like travelling, health, other entertainments, food, other electronic appliances for home, etc.



Is this where you are coming from?

*Economics*

Particularly in the early 19th century, several utopian ideas arose, often in response to their belief that social disruption was created and caused by the development of commercialism and capitalism. These are often grouped in a greater "utopian socialist" movement, due to their shared characteristics: an egalitarian distribution of goods, frequently with the total abolition of money, and citizens only doing work which they enjoy and which is for the common good, leaving them with ample time for the cultivation of the arts and sciences. One classic example of such a utopia was Edward Bellamy's _Looking Backward_. Another socialist utopia is William Morris' _News from Nowhere_, written partially in response to the top-down (bureaucratic) nature of Bellamy's utopia, which Morris criticized. However, as the socialist movement developed it moved away from utopianism; Marx in particular became a harsh critic of earlier socialism he described as utopian. (For more information see the History of Socialism article.) In a utopian society, the economy, concurrent with the ongoing theme, is perfect; there is no inflation, and perfect social and financial equality. However, in 1905 H.G. Wells published _A Modern Utopia_, which was widely read and admired and provoked much discussion. Also consider Eric Frank Russell's book _The Great Explosion_ (1963) whose last section details an economic and social utopia. This forms the first mention of the idea of Local Exchange Trading Systems (LETS).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia


----------



## rtwjunkie (Mar 29, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> I also have my personal needs for entertainment. But not at any cost.
> 
> I am saying that they are evil, shit and assholes not for nothing but because they never respect your salary amount and that you have plenty of other needs and costs and 99% of them are more important - like travelling, health, other entertainments, food, other electronic appliances for home, etc.



Why would Nvidia respect your salary amount? You don't NEED s top-level graphics card. How are they evil? Because they don't sell you something top-level that you can afford? That's your problem, not theirs. I can't afford them either without saving for awhile, because it's not a critical need. How are they evil? Because their goal is to make a profit?

It's a BUSINESS. Otherwise they would be a NPO. It's unbelievable your lack of knowledge of economics. That in itself would be fine if you weren't spouting off and showing the world how ignorant you are of how things are.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 29, 2015)

Oh, come on, you guys really are starting to be really irritating.

If some people are willing to pay 1K for cards for living, why would everyone else have to do the same?

And why should I stay with low-end card because I wasn't born in a country which sucks the resources from the whole globe, like the states or some western countries with colonies?

It's the ugliest discrimination based on country of origin.

Because you do nothing and can afford everything and I can have two-three jobs and not sleeping, risking my health, for surviving and not being able to afford.

Think like humans, not like evil profit-oriented reptiles.


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 29, 2015)

Um yeah, I and everyone else do nothing. If you only knew how many people in the U.S. Are at or below the poverty line, and how many that aren't there have to work two to 3 jobs just to barely survive you'd stop the "rich" accusations.


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## nolafotoknut (Mar 29, 2015)

@Sony Xperia S...I put myself through college so I COULD afford nice things!!  Green really doesn't suit you well!  Business is business no matter where a company is located in the world!


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## qubit (Mar 29, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> *Think like humans, not like evil profit-oriented reptiles.*


Really?


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## JMccovery (Mar 29, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> Oh, come on, you guys really are starting to be really irritating.
> 
> If some people are willing to pay 1K for cards for living, why would everyone else have to do the same?
> 
> ...



You act like you *need* a high-end GPU, but you don't. Nvidia believes such cards should cost that much, and the people that buy them agree. Those that can't afford/choose not to buy said cards don't, and settle for lower performance.

If while working two or three jobs you can't afford high-end equipment, you do what a lot of people (including several that purchase $1k+ cards); *live within your means*. Either figure out a way to make more money to buy the toys you want, or be content with what you can afford.

I can't drop $1k on a GPU, but you don't see me complaining that Nvidia shouldn't charge what people are willing to pay.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Mar 29, 2015)

@Sony Xperia S like the rest of the folks here, I put my hard work & studies 1st before rewarding myself with something cool with my hard-earned money. Just because you think vendors like Nvidia is "Evil" does not give you an entitlement to "hate" them. If this is plain jealousy towards others who have work their asses off & get the things they want, then I say you're being an immature prick barking up at the wrong tree. If you want it, work for it. No such thing as shortcuts in life. This is reality. Upgrading may be a daunting task for some, but those who dedicate their time, money & effort for it IS rewarding & gives the ultimate bragging rights.


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## 15th Warlock (Mar 29, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> Oh, come on, you guys really are starting to be really irritating.
> 
> If some people are willing to pay 1K for cards for living, why would everyone else have to do the same?
> 
> ...



This is really getting out of hand, you talk about discrimination? I work 6 days a week, am a single parent raising a 5 year old, wake every morning at 6AM to prepare everything so he can go to school, then go to my workplace for 9 hours straight, and basically don't stop working until 9PM when my son goes to bed.

Evil profit oriented reptiles? Who are you to judge other people for what they can or cannot afford? Who gave you that right? How old are you? 12?

News flash: some people bust their asses to earn their money day in and day out, all around the world, some were fortunate enough to be born in countries were luxury goods are readily available for those who can afford them, some people don't have that fortune. Some like me fought their way up to leave their countries of origin and were lucky enough to be able to move to a country where honest hard work is properly recognized and mostly well rewarded.

But for you to pass judgement on other human beings just based on such a frivolous thing as being to able to buy a expensive video card, or the corporations that charge pretty penny for such things, that is just plain wrong.

Did your parents teach you to throw rocks at people driving by on a Mercedes or a BMW just because they can afford it? No, right?

Get a life, there are way more important things in life than wasting your time passing judgment on people just because they like sharing their opinion on a tech forum.

I'm done with this thread, I tried, in a constructive way to contribute to it, even replying to some people criticizing me and other fellow forum users, with mostly respectful posts, but some people are just trolls, cannot be reasoned with, some people just want to see the world burn.

As far as the original topic, I've said it before, and I say it again: I'm extremely excited about Nvidia releasing the 980ti, if the level of performance I can get with my current card can be enjoyed by others at a much lower price, then the more power to my fellow PC gamers! 

Same for the 390X, I really hope the card can be every bit as fast as people expect it to be, who knows, if it is so, and is relatively affordable, it may even find a home in my current CF 290X rig. God knows AMD needs every single break they can get, and WE need a healthy AMD to keep both Intel and Nvidia in check.

I said the exact same thing when the 780Ti and 290X came out, live and let live man, we are all fellow gamers, part of a thriving community, let's just focus on what matters the most and realize we live in exciting times for anyone who enjoys gaming


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Mar 29, 2015)

I buy Nvidia based cards for a REASON, not just by the numbers from benchies or from marketing gimmicks. All I know is that their newer line up has proved to be efficient, stronger, faster & doesn't eat much power than AMD cards for the same range. While I do know AMD cards are kinda decent for it's class but what makes me disappointed is they haven't make a fresh new chip from the ground up but to rely on 3 year old chips. How are you suppose to fight a competitor that has brand new arsenal that's theoretically worlds apart in terms of everything? Slashing prices on current products WILL NOT give enough profit if one wants to keep the company rolling.


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## qubit (Mar 29, 2015)

@15th Warlock +1, well said and respect. I don't understand why some people just don't get something so basic. Yeah, we all want the good stuff, whatever it is, but companies will charge what the market will *bear*, not what is *"fair"*, it's as simple as that. That's capitalism at work.

Perhaps Sony is actually a kid, which could explain it and we could cut him some slack if we knew that to be the case.

@Sony Xperia S are you a kid?


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Mar 29, 2015)

No, I think he's just like us but somewhat jealous at us who work hard, play hard & get the good stuff as a reward while getting/unlocking achievements in our personal lives... He somehow reminded me of a certain Singaporean dude who has a strong characteristics of a jealous human being just because others are hard-working while he just idly sit by, watching them with envy & then snapped a nerve.


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## the54thvoid (Mar 29, 2015)

qubit said:


> @15th WarlockPerhaps Sony is actually a kid, which could explain it and we could cut him some slack...



If that was the case they should show respect.  None is ever shown.  I'm glad I can't see (through the forums) what is being posted.  If he's attacking people like 15thWarlock he should be handed the fucking ban stick.  TPU mods seem to be way too tolerant of disruptive trolls.    I understand the whole freedom to express but *in a community* of like minded people, there has to be rules to abide to.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Mar 29, 2015)

Old Confucius said: "A thoughtful man thinks before he speaks while the arrogant man speaks before he thinks." If you hate something, give a few solid reasons why instead of baseless assumptions. Always do your research 1st before doing so is important or else them like-minded folks will think of it the other way 'round.


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## qubit (Mar 29, 2015)

@the54thvoid I know what you mean about the trolls. However, the situation seems to have gotten better in the last few months, although it still has some way to go. I've had a quite a few pm's about this with mods over these few months and I like to think it's made a difference here, as I'm often the target of these idiot trolls.


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## 15th Warlock (Mar 29, 2015)

the54thvoid said:


> If that was the case they should show respect.  None is ever shown.  I'm glad I can't see (through the forums) what is being posted.  If he's attacking people like 15thWarlock he should be handed the fucking ban stick.  TPU mods seem to be way too tolerant of disruptive trolls.    I understand the whole freedom to express but *in a community* of like minded people, there has to be rules to abide to.



He wasn't attacking me in particular, just plain trolling, filling this thread with hatred, nothing constructive, perhaps I should do the same thing you did and ignore his posts, problem is, when you see 5-6 people replying to the same person for trolling, you start wondering when it'll be dealt with.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Mar 29, 2015)

don't worry. There are some who also hit me because I can afford something they can't & over-reacting at the news about GTX970's "memory controversy", "has 3.5GB VRAM instead of 4" & whatnots. I dun give a shit. Sometimes you just have to strike them hard to ensure they dun have a chance of fighting back with their BS made-up stories.


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 29, 2015)

Honestly, I don't think Sony is trolling.  I think they believe that bull about corporations and profit being evil and everything should be affordable to everyone who wants a product, no matter how unnecessary it is.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Mar 29, 2015)

In the world of economy, competition is fierce. It's practically everywhere, from small scale, self-established supplier to mega-billion dollar companies. That is somewhat true. Corps & profits being an "evil entity" is not entirely true unless you're talking about China where they dun give shit about QC but wants to make fast cash while end users suffer & then gets bashed by health organizations along with others for the ride.


----------



## moproblems99 (Mar 29, 2015)

So, I have been staying out of this thread for the most part mainly because I thought all titan owners were idiots for buying the card priced that high and screwing it up for the rest of us.  However, after reading the thread I came to some realizations and would like to apologize to all the titan owners for the bad things I said to myself. 

While I still don't think the titans are worth the asking price, others do and that's ok.  While, technically, I think the 970 and 980 are mid-range GPUs by naming scheme - their performance is comparable to the top tier of their competitors.  It is crappy but also truly amazing what they have done with their products to be able to have a "mid range" card compete with top tier hardware from AMD.

That said, my 6850's are beyond their usefulness so whether the 980 is my next card, or the 390, life will be good.

For the record, I can't really afford the titan but I certainly do not believe I am entitled to purchase one for what I can afford, that is ludicrous.  And yes I have a nice fat debt since I am paying for my BS degree.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 29, 2015)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> In the world of economy, competition is fierce. It's practically everywhere, from small scale, self-established supplier to mega-billion dollar companies. That is somewhat true. Corps & profits being an "evil entity" is not entirely true unless you're talking about China where they dun give shit about QC but wants to make fast cash while end users suffer & then gets bashed by health organizations along with others for the ride.



Actually, China is one of the best partners in the world now because their strategy is very customer-oriented with high quality products which correspond to the western products but are at a fraction of their cost.

One of the most prefered and valued partners (better than working with expensive western europe products) and I will push for strong partnership in that direction.

In this case it is absolutely fair that China was and will be the world's top economy.


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## rooivalk (Mar 29, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> Actually, China is one of the best partners in the world now because their strategy is very customer-oriented with high quality products which correspond to the western products but are at a fraction of their cost.
> 
> One of the most prefered and valued partners (better than working with expensive western europe products) and I will push for strong partnership in that direction.
> 
> In this case it is absolutely fair that China was and will be the world's top economy.


Believe me man, you need some medications.


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## nolafotoknut (Mar 29, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> Actually, China is one of the best partners in the world now because their strategy is very customer-oriented with high quality products which correspond to the western products but are at a fraction of their cost.


Because companies pay their workers very little wages!  In Beijing, the average hourly wage is ~16 CNY which is equivalent to 2.57 USD.


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## arbiter (Mar 30, 2015)

Ebo said:


> If R9 390X is going to be that beast, everybody expects(myself included) and can deliver grafics on par or even better than Titan X, then the price dosent really matter to me.
> It would be very nice if the price could be down just about the 700 dollar mark, but even if it costs 800, for me that dosent matter if the preformance is there.



Yea rumor says 980ti is probably 700$ which it would be about right. But Rumor is that is price point for 390x, if its base card from amd's slides it will be 4gb card. At that point does comes to performance if they run neck and neck which sounds like they will, won't be good for AMD if that 390x uses power it looks like it could use.


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## 64K (Mar 30, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> Actually, China is one of the best partners in the world now because their strategy is very customer-oriented with high quality products which correspond to the western products but are at a fraction of their cost.
> 
> One of the most prefered and valued partners (better than working with expensive western europe products) and I will push for strong partnership in that direction.
> 
> In this case it is absolutely fair that China was and will be the world's top economy.



Most of the products that come out of China are junk. You get what you pay for Sony Xperia. That's how it works. You work for money to live or someone is supporting you with their money. Wanting money isn't evil.


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## arbiter (Mar 30, 2015)

64K said:


> Most of the products that come out of China are junk. You get what you pay for Sony Xperia. That's how it works. You work for money to live or someone is supporting you with their money. Wanting money isn't evil.



Yea "High quality" and "Chinese" don't belong in same sentence let along paragraph. Cost to make stuff in china is going up, its near point its same price as it is to make it in country you are selling it. Costs in china are still going up cause wages and shrinking work force, Pollution is also another nasty problem over there too.


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## Caring1 (Mar 30, 2015)

Way things are going we'll need a new third world country as a source of cheap labor, we've already had made in Japan, Hong Kong, China, and Taiwan, next it will be electronics from Bangladesh.


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## Sony Xperia S (Mar 30, 2015)

rooivalk said:


> Believe me man, you need some medications.



An evil troll detected.


And yeah, wanting money in excess quantity, which you do not need for living or surviving, or to push your power upon others, is nothing but evil.

Here, I will excuse, all of you, because probably you have NO CLUE what China manufactures and exports. Probably you see only the cheap Chinese toys for under 1$ and that's why you think everything they sell lacks quality.

Which is some serious ignorance.


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## HammerON (Mar 30, 2015)

Please just stop. Your opinion has been well stated in multiple threads and multiple posts within those threads. You are derailing this thread. Move along.


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## Vlada011 (Mar 30, 2015)

That will be great if NVIDIA launch full GM200 with 6GB.
No way something to force me on 4GB card. Such good model not exist.
And I think AMD is completely crazy if they launch R9-390X 4GB but people should stop to talk about AMD before they launch card. They need 8GB card, special because they will not launch next generations so fast as NVIDIA. But maybe is their plan to customers feel lack on 4GB and to upgrade later on 8GB version, same as R9-290X 8GB.
It's enough of their rumors, and 4GB at the end of 2015 will be same as now 3GB or even worse.
Under 6GB not interest me, and that's not perfect size, even if now look enough, but for someone who don't want to upgrade on every 12-24 months and that's not perfect size. I would say 8-12GB is ideal for long term.


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## Assimilator (Mar 30, 2015)

HammerON said:


> Please just stop. Your opinion has been well stated in multiple threads and multiple posts within those threads. You are derailing this thread. Move along.



Can't you just ban him? He contributes nothing to this forum, all he ever does is troll.


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## arbiter (Mar 30, 2015)

Vlada011 said:


> That will be great if NVIDIA launch full GM200 with 6GB.
> No way something to force me on 4GB card. Such good model not exist.
> And I think AMD is completely crazy if they launch R9-390X 4GB but people should stop to talk about AMD before they launch card. They need 8GB card, special because they will not launch next generations so fast as NVIDIA. But maybe is their plan to customers feel lack on 4GB and to upgrade later on 8GB version, same as R9-290X 8GB.
> It's enough of their rumors, and 4GB at the end of 2015 will be same as now 3GB or even worse.
> Under 6GB not interest me, and that's not perfect size, even if now look enough, but for someone who don't want to upgrade on every 12-24 months and that's not perfect size. I would say 8-12GB is ideal for long term.



There will be 8gb model as well, but since new memory they are using, if 700$ is base 4gb price, 8gb probably be 900-1000$ range. gddr5 4gb to 8gb was 120$ premium last i looked a few weeks ago but that is gddr5 ram which is plentiful. The AMD slide that was leaked and they had here on the TPU, said "up to 8gb" so would support a 4gb version.


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 30, 2015)

N3M3515 said:


> Whoever said that amd is doing bad because they sell cheaper than nvidia is dead wrong.


More a case of AMD sell cheaper because they are not in a dominant position. Selling cheaper then impacts ASP's and ultimately revenue, which leads to less resources available for R&D, which translate to longer product cycles - and old product is a tough sell when you don't have top of the mind branding. The latest R&D figures reflect those companies leading their respective markets, and carrying little or no debt burden to drain funds away from their product cadence. AMD are caught in a brutal economic cause and effect situation.







qubit said:


> They still haven't paid for ATI? WTF?!  AMD sounds like a basket case.


AMD paid $5.4bn for ATI, which was twice what it was actually worth. AMD sustained a couple of hefty write-downs - a $1.68bn impairment charge in Q4 2007, and a further $880m in Q2 2008 - basically half ATI's sale price. Covering that loss has meant AMD carrying debt (currently at $2.04bn) to the current day and for some years to come.
AMD would undoubtedly be a vastly different company had Ruiz paid closer to ATI's actual worth, or worked out a deal to licence ATI's graphics IP.


arbiter said:


> Yea rumor says 980ti is probably 700$ which it would be about right. But Rumor is that is price point for 390x, if its base card from amd's slides it will be 4gb card. At that point does comes to performance if they run neck and neck which sounds like they will, won't be good for AMD if that 390x uses power it looks like it could use.


The first order of business is to be competitive performance wise. AMD will incur higher costs - an AIO, HBM + large interposer aren't cheap in comparison to GDDR5's commodity pricing and the now-standard Nvidia blower shroud. Estimates seem to put HBM alone at twice the relative cost per bit of LPDDR3/LPDDR4 (which is fairly pricy in itself)




...but at this point, AMD has little option if they want to make a run at maintaining a viable halo product and its trickle down marketing effect on the rest of the product stack.

As for the GTX 980 Ti - It is nothing  less than expected. Hopefully the 390X lives up to its billing and both cards allow the enthusiast to actually be enthusiastic for a change.


----------



## Sony Xperia S (Mar 30, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> Selling cheaper then impacts ASP's and ultimately revenue, which leads to less resources available for R&D, which translate to longer product cycles - and old product is a tough sell when you don't have top of the mind branding.



Guys, we are asked not to derail the thread. Why do you analyse AMD?!

Selling cheaper equals to higher number of sales. Selling more expensive naturally tends to decrease the sales quantity.

So, basically you are speaking about all equal conditions which I doubt will happen at this point.


----------



## HumanSmoke (Mar 30, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> Guys, we are asked not to derail the thread. Why do you analyse AMD?!


You mean the same way that you posted some not-at-all relevant bench concerning the AMD 290X, and some AMD marketing boilerplate, that even the article authors asserted wasn't a comparative study?....and has absolutely nothing to do with an unreleased Nvidia card that is the topic of this thread...


Sony Xperia S said:


> I know something which nvidia won't like a lot: it turns out that under DX12 the R9 290X is faster than GTX 980 by the significant 33%.
> Published by AMD Gaming in FB:
> *Good news: the results of the PC Perspective 3DMark API Overhead Feature Test are out. Best News: The AMD Radeon™ R9 290X graphics card delivers up to 33% higher performance than others. Game on.*





Sony Xperia S said:


> Selling cheaper equals to higher number of sales.


That would be false in this situation. AMD hasn't outsold Nvidia since the former began selling discrete graphics cards


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 30, 2015)

Sony Xperia S said:


> Guys, we are asked not to derail the thread. Why do you analyse AMD?!
> 
> Selling cheaper equals to higher number of sales. Selling more expensive naturally tends to decrease the sales quantity.
> 
> So, basically you are speaking about all equal conditions which I doubt will happen at this point.



Are you familiar with the expression "digging your own grave"?

Stop digging. You've already hit the cesspit of disaster I predicted, and went a whole lot deeper still.


----------



## GhostRyder (Mar 30, 2015)

Vlada011 said:


> That will be great if NVIDIA launch full GM200 with 6GB.
> No way something to force me on 4GB card. Such good model not exist.
> And I think AMD is completely crazy if they launch R9-390X 4GB but people should stop to talk about AMD before they launch card. They need 8GB card, special because they will not launch next generations so fast as NVIDIA. But maybe is their plan to customers feel lack on 4GB and to upgrade later on 8GB version, same as R9-290X 8GB.
> It's enough of their rumors, and 4GB at the end of 2015 will be same as now 3GB or even worse.
> Under 6GB not interest me, and that's not perfect size, even if now look enough, but for someone who don't want to upgrade on every 12-24 months and that's not perfect size. I would say 8-12GB is ideal for long term.


Well if we are to believe the leaks there will be a 4gb and 8gb model which we can either view in two different ways (IMHO).

1: There will be a 4gb R9 390 and then an 8gb R9 390X
2: There will be a 4gb R9 390X and 8gb R9 390X with the R9 390 being a mystery still.

Either way, with the GTX 980ti/GTX 990/GTX Whatever coming in at $700 as well (Rumors proving true on both ends), its going to be a tough battle and come down to performance and who does it better.  If its 4gb versus 6gb with similar performance at that price point, then the 6gb is going to obviously be the better value...

I think its still too early to decide on either card what they are going to be like.  However since we already have a taste of the GTX Titan X's performance, we can take a stab at where the GTX 980ti is going to fall being most likely a better overclocked model and having more flexibility in overclocking.  Hopefully it will also get a memory speed bump as well...


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Mar 30, 2015)

@Sony Xperia S: Can you please STOP derailing this topic? Your mentality & irrelevancy is killing it. We're talking about rumors of a soon-to-be unveiled pixel pusher from a premium vendor, not demoting it like it's the end of the world with some 3rd rate, not so trustworthy intel about the market ecology.

@GhostRyder: I think there is a possibility of releases in that manner since 8GB variants tend to be released a few months after the 4GB models. As for the R9 390 non-X release... it's still too early to tell. Stories regarding about the GTX980Ti's release will be a popular/heated topic among forumers who are anticipating it, especially who are waiting patiently for it instead of resorting to acquiring the GTX970 for their major upgrades as moving to the 980 Ti from a few months old VGA card (like the said 970) has a very small real world gain.


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## the54thvoid (Mar 30, 2015)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> Stories regarding about the GTX980Ti's release will be a popular/heated topic among forumers who are anticipating it, especially who are waiting patiently for it



Absolutely this.  Titan wasn't fast enough for me to upgrade for now but if the 390X or 980ti (or whatever) doesn't beat it in Summer, I'll be getting a Titan.  Then I'll have to void the waranty with a waterblock and a custom bios to get silly levels of awesome.  See this for evidence.


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## 64K (Mar 30, 2015)

VideoCardz is saying it may be as late as September before the 980 Ti is released. A little over 5 months. 

http://videocardz.com/55299/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-ti-to-be-released-after-summer

I suspect we will see some R9 3xx cards before then.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Mar 30, 2015)

Well, for me my GTX970 G1 Gaming on single 1080p display is more than enough to push most games at Very High to Max without problems. Upgrading to the 980Ti won't give me much differences since I OCed it to be as fast as the base 980. WindForce 3X + 1.4GHz (core) with Boost FTW =D


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 30, 2015)

64K said:


> VideoCardz is saying it may be as late as September before the 980 Ti is released. A little over 5 months.
> 
> http://videocardz.com/55299/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-ti-to-be-released-after-summer
> 
> I suspect we will see some R9 3xx cards before then.


 
I think i EXPECT they will wait until after the 390x release.  No reason for them to release before then.  And, that's about how long the Titan was on the market before the 780 release.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Mar 30, 2015)

@the54thvoid I think getting 2 units of custom GTX970 in SLI would be a better & cheaper alternative unless your budget has no qualms of getting a Titan... but benchmark numbers on this site stated that on resolutions from 1080p onwards, the Titan X is just a few percent behind SLIed 970s, all the way to 4K across demanding games. Also, once DX12 comes to us, the gains of using a mid range card will be as good as a high end card where true enthusiasts will buy it, but then again such performance gain is purely depends on whether the developers are willing to adopt the new API engine or not, which is a different thing. Well, I wish you luck getting any of the 2~ ^^

@rtwjunkie well... only time will tell. All we can do is wait. =w=


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## Tatty_One (Mar 30, 2015)

OK, you have been asked nicely to stop the derail by a Moderator already, and more AMD/NVidia "who's best" crap derailment that occurs from here on in will result in a posting holiday.  By all means discuss speculation on the news topic which for those of you that have not noticed..... is about NVidia and a GTX 980Ti launch...... thank you.


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## arbiter (Mar 30, 2015)

GhostRyder said:


> Well if we are to believe the leaks there will be a 4gb and 8gb model which we can either view in two different ways (IMHO).
> 
> 1: There will be a 4gb R9 390 and then an 8gb R9 390X
> 2: There will be a 4gb R9 390X and 8gb R9 390X with the R9 390 being a mystery still.


\
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



It says "up to 8gb" so likely to be 4gb one 4gb one to start is pretty much confirmed by AMD itself.


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## BiggieShady (Mar 30, 2015)

New flagship from AMD is roughly 50% bump from 290X (taking higher clocks into account) just like TitanX (and other GM200 beasts like soon to be 980Ti) is 50% bump from 980 ... so they will roughly have the same performance as always ... I just hope AMD improved efficiency enough


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## GhostRyder (Mar 30, 2015)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> @GhostRyder: I think there is a possibility of releases in that manner since 8GB variants tend to be released a few months after the 4GB models. As for the R9 390 non-X release... it's still too early to tell. Stories regarding about the GTX980Ti's release will be a popular/heated topic among forumers who are anticipating it, especially who are waiting patiently for it instead of resorting to acquiring the GTX970 for their major upgrades as moving to the 980 Ti from a few months old VGA card (like the said 970) has a very small real world gain.


Indeed, lots of speculation and even with what is known so far that could all change at the drop of a hat.



arbiter said:


> \
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Yes...I have seen the slide and am well aware of what they said.  There are lots of things not listed however and at least a couple of months before these are out in the public which means its subject to change.  That is why I said I saw only two options remaining (IMHO) for the cards based on what was known (IE there will be a 4gb and 8gb 390X, or the 390 will be the 4gb and the 390X will be the 8gb).  All we see from the charts are "Up to 8gb" and the mention that its the R9 390X/WCE which could all change.



rtwjunkie said:


> I think i EXPECT they will wait until after the 390x release.  No reason for them to release before then.  And, that's about how long the Titan was on the market before the 780 release.


 That is what I think personally, no reason to release the GTX 980ti unless they intentionally want to shut down the Titan X from being purchased.


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## 64K (Mar 30, 2015)

Somewhere in one of these GM200 threads a member here listed the value of 12 GB VRAM for various uses other than gaming even without DP. I don't keep up with using a video card for work so I don't know but maybe the Titan X with 12 GB will still be relevant to those customers even after the 980 Ti drops.


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## Haytch (Mar 30, 2015)

Let's just hope the specifications turn out to be what Nvidia state they will be.  We don't want another repeat of the 970 memory issue


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## HumanSmoke (Mar 30, 2015)

64K said:


> Somewhere in one of these GM200 threads a member here listed the value of 12 GB VRAM for various uses other than gaming even without DP. I don't keep up with using a video card for work so I don't know but maybe the Titan X with 12 GB will still be relevant to those customers even after the 980 Ti drops.


Anything that uses large data sets could benefit the larger vRAM capacity of the Titan X, just as the previous large framebuffer cards (Quadro K6000 for example) have found homes in compute based workloads. CG rendering isn't double precision based for the most part, and 4K (and higher) rendering definitely benefits from the larger memory capacity, and anyone involved in the industry of training neural networks would certainly consider the card rather than a K6000/M6000 _if_ the data handling required it.
Obviously, the usage scenarios are for a mere fraction of the graphics card buying market, but I don't think Titan X was ever intended for mass market appeal.


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## Tsukiyomi91 (Mar 31, 2015)

but for general gamers who plays games at Maxed out settings (without texture mods), I think it wouldn't be a beneficial thing of having too much VRAM coz according to TPU, the most for COD:AW is ~7.3GB VRAM used, in which an 8GB variant of any high end card would do. 12GB is too much for me anyways & usually I would only buy & use a card to play games that don't require crazy stuff. Maybe there is a small reason why some would willing to buy the Titan X, but for what reason I don't know. Well, by the time the 980Ti comes out, I wonder what will current 970, 980 & Titan X owners will say about it. Just my opinion.


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## 64K (Mar 31, 2015)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> but for general gamers who plays games at Maxed out settings (without texture mods), I think it wouldn't be a beneficial thing of having too much VRAM coz according to TPU, the most for COD:AW is ~7.3GB VRAM used, in which an 8GB variant of any high end card would do. 12GB is too much for me anyways & usually I would only buy & use a card to play games that don't require crazy stuff. Maybe there is a small reason why some would willing to buy the Titan X, but for what reason I don't know. Well, by the time the 980Ti comes out, I wonder what will current 970, 980 & Titan X owners will say about it. Just my opinion.



I think the 980 Ti with 6 GB VRAM will be plenty for almost everyone for gaming for a couple of years. Even people on 4K with two of these if DX12 works the way they are saying it will with Split Frame Rendering. 6 GB + 6 GB will no longer equal 6 GB as it does now with Alternate Frame Rendering.


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## mroofie (Mar 31, 2015)

64K said:


> I think the 980 Ti with 6 GB VRAM will be plenty for almost everyone for gaming for a couple of years. Even people on 4K with two of these if DX12 works the way they are saying it will with Split Frame Rendering. 6 GB + 6 GB will no longer equal 6 GB as it does now with Alternate Frame Rendering.


Forgot about that dx 12 feature 

No TitanX needed


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## xenocide (Apr 1, 2015)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> but for general gamers who plays games at Maxed out settings (without texture mods), I think it wouldn't be a beneficial thing of having too much VRAM coz according to TPU, the most for COD:AW is ~7.3GB VRAM used, in which an 8GB variant of any high end card would do. 12GB is too much for me anyways & usually I would only buy & use a card to play games that don't require crazy stuff. Maybe there is a small reason why some would willing to buy the Titan X, but for what reason I don't know. Well, by the time the 980Ti comes out, I wonder what will current 970, 980 & Titan X owners will say about it. Just my opinion.



The CoD:AW stats were an outlier.  It ran just as well with a 4GB limit, it's a wasteful game.  Realistically like 4-5GB is the most any game uses.


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## arbiter (Apr 2, 2015)

xenocide said:


> The CoD:AW stats were an outlier.  It ran just as well with a 4GB limit, it's a wasteful game.  Realistically like 4-5GB is the most any game uses.



Yea if its that wasteful, but if you give game dev's more vram to use they will use it. Least you can hope they will.


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## Prima.Vera (Apr 2, 2015)

xenocide said:


> The CoD:AW stats were an outlier.  It ran just as well with a 4GB limit, it's a wasteful game.  Realistically like 4-5GB is the most any game uses.


In 4K with 4xMSAA you have to specify that.


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## onmybikedrunk (Apr 2, 2015)

This is why I love Microcenter. Pay $60 ahead of time for a trade value equal to what I paid for my cards.  980's on loan for $60 for 8 months then returned for full credit to go to the 980 Ti's.  Rinse, repeat.


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## N3M3515 (Apr 9, 2015)

HumanSmoke said:


> More a case of AMD sell cheaper because they are not in a dominant position. Selling cheaper then impacts ASP's and ultimately revenue, which leads to less resources available for R&D, which translate to longer product cycles - and old product is a tough sell when you don't have top of the mind branding. The latest R&D figures reflect those companies leading their respective markets, and carrying little or no debt burden to drain funds away from their product cadence. AMD are caught in a brutal economic cause and effect situation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In conclusion, the cause is bad management.


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