# MSI B450M Gaming Plus and 3500X



## sepheronx (Dec 10, 2019)

Hello everyone.

So I purchased a AMD Ryzen 3500X and while it will take a while to come in, I am now looking at motherboards.  Since this is a budget build for a customer, I am wondering if the MSI B450M Gaming Plus is a good option?  Reason why I chose it is because its relatively cheap (I can price match it lower by $10 CAD from Newegg) and since it has a bios flashback capability, it would be safe to purchase so I can update the bios to support the Ryzen 3000x series.  Anyone with experience with this board?  Looking for cheap 3200 memory as well, any suggestions?






						MSI B450M GAMING PLUS w/ DDR4-2666, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit LAN, PCI-E x16 - AMD AM4 Boards - Memory Express Inc.
					






					www.memoryexpress.com


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 14, 2019)

sepheronx said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> So I purchased a AMD Ryzen 3500X and while it will take a while to come in, I am now looking at motherboards.  Since this is a budget build for a customer, I am wondering if the MSI B450M Gaming Plus is a good option?  Reason why I chose it is because its relatively cheap (I can price match it lower by $10 CAD from Newegg) and since it has a bios flashback capability, it would be safe to purchase so I can update the bios to support the Ryzen 3000x series.  Anyone with experience with this board?  Looking for cheap 3200 memory as well, any suggestions?
> 
> ...



It will probably come already supporting 3000 series chips.

No slower than 3200mhz memory (board be lucky to support this speed) because it's a 450 chipset, was built for Zen+ support, more so than Zen2.
But cheap memory is cheap memory. Go with known good brands, and you'll be ok there. Timings, just be sure they are 16-16-16 opposed to 16-17-17 or the like.

Personally, I've always liked Asus boards over MSI. Gigabyte for my second choice. But really any B450 chipset will work fine IMO.


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## sepheronx (Dec 14, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> It will probably come already supporting 3000 series chips.
> 
> No slower than 3200mhz memory (board be lucky to support this speed) because it's a 450 chipset, was built for Zen+ support, more so than Zen2.
> But cheap memory is cheap memory. Go with known good brands, and you'll be ok there. Timings, just be sure they are 16-16-16 opposed to 16-17-17 or the like.
> ...



I was thinking all the same but you specify using the 16 timings because AMD ryzen does still have issues with the 15 timings, correct?  Most ram I am looking at is cheap. $85 CAD for RAM isn't too bad, but I am just curious if I may have problems with GSkill ram with these boards?  Gskill Ripjaws V to be specific.

Thanks for the suggestion.  I will also check out some Asus boards.  Got any recommendations?


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## GorbazTheDragon (Dec 14, 2019)

AMD can only run even timings for CAS, can't remember for the other timings...

I would say stick to the MSI boards for B450, these are the ones I usually look for.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 14, 2019)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> AMD can only run even timings for CAS, can't remember for the other timings...



That's not a true statement my friend..





Board is system spec <---


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## GorbazTheDragon (Dec 14, 2019)

Seen various symptoms from unstable with 15-15-15=>stable 14-15-15 to reported CAS latency changing up by 1 in certain CPU-Z versions or no difference between 16 and 15 for CAS latency.


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## Khonjel (Dec 14, 2019)

I'd take Asrock b450*M* steel legend. More features, better audio etc. etc. Even M Pro4 is better featured than most of the MSl b450 boards except Gaming Pro carbon.


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## sepheronx (Dec 14, 2019)

Remember, I'm trying to keep a very strict budget. System has to come to about ~$800 - $900 CAD.  The MSI board I chose is about $114 CAD here and why I chose it is because of the BIOS flashback feature. I would say that yes while most of the bios' should already be updated for all 450 mobos, there is a chance they may not be. And places like memory express will charge $50+ just to update it for you.

Heck, I could even choose the cheaper $80 CAD boards if I could but the VRM's (and lack of passive cooling for them) were very worrying hence why I figure customers using the one I chose got at least a half decent board. Only thing I was ho hum on was the I/O ports or lack of many features.

I usually go through CA.pcpartpicker then I will search sites individually for pricing since I noticed it isn't exactly 100% accurate on who has cheaper prices.

Plus trying to find a half decent case at a good price is a challenge. Especially when case fans are stupid in price for most part.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 14, 2019)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> Seen various symptoms from unstable with 15-15-15=>stable 14-15-15 to reported CAS latency changing up by 1 in certain CPU-Z versions or no difference between 16 and 15 for CAS latency.



I understand but with that argument, you havent listed all variables and explained why its not stable.

My Jedec #6 is 15-15-15 stock auto what ever. Boots and runs just fine.


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## freeagent (Dec 14, 2019)

Every time I see all of that red I wonder why these boards keep being recommended? If they can’t drive a top end cpu how can it drive a high end oc? Or is it just the budget factor that is being recommended? Pardon my ignorance..


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## potato580+ (Dec 14, 2019)

sepheronx said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> So I purchased a AMD Ryzen 3500X and while it will take a while to come in, I am now looking at motherboards.  Since this is a budget build for a customer, I am wondering if the MSI B450M Gaming Plus is a good option?  Reason why I chose it is because its relatively cheap (I can price match it lower by $10 CAD from Newegg) and since it has a bios flashback capability, it would be safe to purchase so I can update the bios to support the Ryzen 3000x series.  Anyone with experience with this board?  Looking for cheap 3200 memory as well, any suggestions?
> 
> ...


ofcourse msi is good, i used b350 has been a year, even w/o update anything, anyway for a 3.2ghz ram, the cheaper brand at here, around $43 for a 2x8 16gig

quite popular here heh, but i sugest you just add more cash and get teamgroup/klevv those are cheap aswell, better performance


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 14, 2019)

freeagent said:


> Every time I see all of that red I wonder why these boards keep being recommended? If they can’t drive a top end cpu how can it drive a high end oc? Or is it just the budget factor that is being recommended? Pardon my ignorance..


Price. The man needs to make a profit or its not worth building.
I assume its for a person that just needs a bouse pc not really being built for overclock or gaming.....


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## sepheronx (Dec 14, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Price. The man needs to make a profit or its not worth building.
> I assume its for a person that just needs a bouse pc not really being built for overclock or gaming....



I don't see why it can't be used for gaming. On contrary, the 3500X does quite well at gaming.  Issue is prices in Canada are rather very high. A 1660 Super is about $330 CAD average for example.  3500X was 160 CAD while best other option is the 3600 which is $230 CAD.  So I'm trying to create a gaming system that average person (people who aren't overclocking but Ryzen 3000 series doesn't OC well anyway) can use to play games.












freeagent said:


> Every time I see all of that red I wonder why these boards keep being recommended? If they can’t drive a top end cpu how can it drive a high end oc? Or is it just the budget factor that is being recommended? Pardon my ignorance..


Budget factor.  Prices on electronics are stupid here. Just browse through CA.pcpartpicker for examples.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 14, 2019)

I didnt say it wouldnt game....
You didnt mention the PC use, so Im assuming its for someone that needs a new pc. You know face book pictures and music maybe some streaming..... 
Im sure itll game fine. My 1400 games ok and probably not as well as a 3500x for sure.....


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## sepheronx (Dec 14, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> I didnt say it wouldnt game....
> You didnt mention the PC use, so Im assuming its for someone that needs a new pc. You know face book pictures and music maybe some streaming.....
> Im sure itll game fine. My 1400 games ok and probably not as well as a 3500x for sure.....



Sorry, I should have been specific.

Most people here play games or want to game on PC but usually 1) cannot afford it or 2) have no idea where to start.  So I am trying to kinda streamline a setup that would cost roughly $1000 CAD to be able to game at med/high settings.  So I singled out to a 3500X and well, a RX580 8GB or a 1650 Super.  Both are within the $250 CAD price which makes it affordable yet at 1080p resolution would be playable at decent fps.  My aim is simply just have a streamline hardware and provide budget gaming to people here.  I just compare to what retailers are charging for pre built machines and I am trying to make similar for hundreds cheaper.  Hard but so far I have done it.  But I had to rely a lot on sales of components and since I couldnt get the 3500X here, I had to order from china.  Now they (Chinese retailer) did offer to give discount if I purchase in bulk so I just ordered it in order to test the CPU out to make sure I can get it to work with whatever motherboard.  Cant take too many risks at the moment.

Its just that in past I relied upon used and cheap hardware.  This time I want to get new and streamline (3500X, Maybe 5500XT) while I can just get different motherboards (rather also streamline that too), SSD/HDD, PSU etc.

Which BTW, what would you guys recommend for a PSU as well?


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## GorbazTheDragon (Dec 14, 2019)

Why a 3500x then? Why not a 1600(x)/2600(x)?


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 14, 2019)

sepheronx said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> So I purchased a AMD Ryzen 3500X and while it will take a while to come in, I am now looking at motherboards.  Since this is a budget build for a customer, I am wondering if the MSI B450M Gaming Plus is a good option?  Reason why I chose it is because its relatively cheap (I can price match it lower by $10 CAD from Newegg) and since it has a bios flashback capability, it would be safe to purchase so I can update the bios to support the Ryzen 3000x series.  Anyone with experience with this board?  Looking for cheap 3200 memory as well, any suggestions?
> 
> ...


That's a good board. Unless you want/need a MATX board I would go with the following;





						MSI B450-A PRO w/ DDR4-2666, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit LAN, CrossFire - AMD AM4 Boards - Memory Express Inc.
					






					www.memoryexpress.com
				



It's full ATX and would allow for expansion should you wish to add in cards, and it's only $10 more ATM.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 14, 2019)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> Why a 3500x then? Why not a 1600(x)/2600(x)?



That's not a bad idea. It'll keep costs low, game just fine.

PSU? Quality is important. Seasonic 550w-650w would be suitable.


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## silkstone (Dec 15, 2019)

freeagent said:


> Every time I see all of that red I wonder why these boards keep being recommended? If they can’t drive a top end cpu how can it drive a high end oc? Or is it just the budget factor that is being recommended? Pardon my ignorance..



The red doesn't mean they can't run the chip. It means they shouldn't run the chip overclocked due to power draw.



sepheronx said:


> Sorry, I should have been specific.
> 
> Most people here play games or want to game on PC but usually 1) cannot afford it or 2) have no idea where to start.  So I am trying to kinda streamline a setup that would cost roughly $1000 CAD to be able to game at med/high settings.  So I singled out to a 3500X and well, a RX580 8GB or a 1650 Super.  Both are within the $250 CAD price which makes it affordable yet at 1080p resolution would be playable at decent fps.  My aim is simply just have a streamline hardware and provide budget gaming to people here.  I just compare to what retailers are charging for pre built machines and I am trying to make similar for hundreds cheaper.  Hard but so far I have done it.  But I had to rely a lot on sales of components and since I couldnt get the 3500X here, I had to order from china.  Now they (Chinese retailer) did offer to give discount if I purchase in bulk so I just ordered it in order to test the CPU out to make sure I can get it to work with whatever motherboard.  Cant take too many risks at the moment.
> 
> ...



If you can, definitely go for a 5500 XT, or even a 5700, if your budget will stretch that far. Both can overclock pretty damn well.

As for the motherboard, Gigabyte make an X370 board that runs lower end Ryzen just fine. You'll find the AX(AB)-370M-DS3H for around $50 USD. ASRock also have a similarly priced B450 Board which is better, but maybe $10 more.


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## sepheronx (Dec 15, 2019)

GorbazTheDragon said:


> Why a 3500x then? Why not a 1600(x)/2600(x)?



Newer and it also scores very well in games as seen above video.

But I am also considering the 2600X as well.  Maybe some builds of that too.  But at $160 CAD, its a rather steal for a newer Ryzen 3000 series CPU.

Gentlemen, since Seasonic series was recommended for PSU, would the SeaSonic S12III series be sufficient?


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## tabascosauz (Dec 15, 2019)

As much as you can, search up the RAM kits that you are interested in, online. Try and find out from others what that exact SKU is actually using in terms of DRAM chips.

Samsung B-die has been the "holy grail" for a long time, but it's been discontinued so a number of kits formerly confirmed to be B-die may have moved onto different chips. A tad bit overhyped, too, indicative of a time when decent competition didn't exist.

Samsung E-die is also a decent contender, and while potential isn't always quite as high as B-die, E-die generally has tight timings on account of being Samsung. Stay away from Samsung D-die and S-die. That shouldn't be too hard, the former is rare.

Hynix CJR (C-die) is a good choice for Ryzen. Timings are looser than B-die, but this is not always reflected in the latency and they OC well. Hynix DJR (D-die) is beginning to show up as of this quarter, as the evolutionary improvement over CJR; details are sparse on its abilities, but it should be just as good as or better (in my case, shouldn't be the exception) than CJR. Stay away from Hynix MFR.

Micron E-die is a rival to CJR and does pretty well.

As for power supplies, the S12 platform is really getting long in the tooth. Component choice is good, but just about every big brand can do that nowadays. Seasonic's Focus Plus Gold line is their new budget oriented line, and pretty much takes the cake with performance and quality much higher than the price suggests. I built with a 550W Focus Plus Gold, and I personally have a 550W Focus Plus Plat, both are stellar and silent. If you're looking to get by, Seasonic will never let you down. But the Focus line has pretty firmly established itself to usurp the S12s and M12s once and for all.

@sepheronx I see that you're just on the other side of the Rockies. Makes it a bit easier to search up pricing and recommend products. Focus Plus Gold is generally available enough that you can walk into ME or CC and pick one up; Amazon and Newegg have you covered too. Where were you able to get your hands on a 3500X? From what I can see, the 2700 and 2700X have been massively discounted all over North America these past few months and represent insane value propositions if you don't mind a little less IMC capability and lower single thread performance.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 15, 2019)

sepheronx said:


> Newer and it also scores very well in games as seen above video.
> 
> But I am also considering the 2600X as well.  Maybe some builds of that too.  But at $160 CAD, its a rather steal for a newer Ryzen 3000 series CPU.
> 
> Gentlemen, since Seasonic series was recommended for PSU, would the SeaSonic S12III series be sufficient?



Yea, for 160cad that's a good price. 
How much is the 2700x? (threads)


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 15, 2019)

sepheronx said:


> Gentlemen, since Seasonic series was recommended for PSU, would the SeaSonic S12III series be sufficient?


Simple answer, yes. Seasonic is one of those few companies that doesn't have any junk in their lineup. You'll be fine.


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## sepheronx (Dec 15, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Yea, for 160cad that's a good price.
> How much is the 2700x? (threads)



About $280


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## tabascosauz (Dec 15, 2019)

sepheronx said:


> About $280



CC is holding the 2700X at $220 until Dec 28. That also happens to be the lowest price of the 2700 right now. Banger of a deal if I ever saw one. Still comes with BL3 or Outer Worlds, which I missed out on by just 2 weeks, being an early adopter.

CPU-Z database seems to hold the 3500X closer to the 2700X's single thread score than the 3700X's, which makes sense from the 3500X's max turbo freq.

Don't think CC has an Alberta store, but they have plenty of stock for online. Maybe you could get ME to price match, but I really dunno if they're willing to cut 50% of their price tag for that.


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## sepheronx (Dec 15, 2019)

tabascosauz said:


> CC is holding the 2700X at $220 until Dec 28. That also happens to be the lowest price of the 2700 right now. Banger of a deal if I ever saw one. Still comes with BL3 or Outer Worlds, which I missed out on by just 2 weeks, being an early adopter.
> 
> CPU-Z database seems to hold the 3500X closer to the 2700X's single thread score than the 3700X's, which makes sense from the 3500X's max turbo freq.
> 
> Don't think CC has an Alberta store, but they have plenty of stock for online. Maybe you could get ME to price match, but I really dunno if they're willing to cut 50% of their price tag for that.


They have a policy of price match + 5% further discount if cheaper elsewhere. I could give that a try for sure.


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## sepheronx (May 10, 2020)

Alright, so I had the machine for about a couple of months.  Tested it thoroughly and worked no problem.  I turned it off and left it off.  Now, when it powered on it had a blue screen, rebooted and now it will not post to bios.

My only assumption is the RAM is no good.  What you guys think?

Full system setup:
MSI B450 Gaming Plus Motherboard
AMD 3500X CPU
2x8GB GSKILL Flare DDR4 3200 RAM
WD Blue 550 NVME 500GB SSD
ASUS TUF GTX 1660 Super
Gigabyte 750W Gold PSU

I pulled the battery and left for the day and put it in and still no go.  I am planning to pull it out of the case and just try it out of the case.  But since I do not have any spare parts to test, I may have to take it into a shop that does have the parts to figure out which part is dead.  But I am also planning to get RAM from a local shop (memoryexpress) and test to see if that is the problem and then return the good ram and send back the old ram for RMA.  But I also feel that this is a scummy idea and I just dont feel right doing that.


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## tabascosauz (May 10, 2020)

So you can't POST, eh? RAM is probably the easier thing to troubleshoot.

Have you tried using only one stick, trying every slot, and trying the other stick? Some kits that won't POST can do so on one stick.

I'm not sure how the Calgary and Edmonton locations are faring under COVID, but all the ME locations here are still open at least for pickup. ME is pretty good on the 14 day returns.

For no-POST, the only other thing I can think of is the GPU, which you could explore with either an APU or low end GPU, again making use of ME returns policy. But RAM first is a good way to go.


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## sepheronx (May 10, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> So you can't POST, eh? RAM is probably the easier thing to troubleshoot.
> 
> Have you tried using only one stick, trying every slot, and trying the other stick? Some kits that won't POST can do so on one stick.
> 
> ...




The ME's here are open but limited to 10 people in store.

I wish I had the parts to test but nope.  And since the mobo only has 2 RAM slots I tried both slots with both sticks and nothing.  The thing is it did work and then it blue screened, rebooted and wont post period.  Fans are all running at full speed though.


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## Caring1 (May 10, 2020)

Pull the Nvme drive and then try.


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## tabascosauz (May 11, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> The ME's here are open but limited to 10 people in store.
> 
> I wish I had the parts to test but nope.  And since the mobo only has 2 RAM slots I tried both slots with both sticks and nothing.  The thing is it did work and then it blue screened, rebooted and wont post period.  Fans are all running at full speed though.



Hah, sounds better than here. The limit is 3 people in the store, and some people evidently just want to buy up the entire store, from the time they spend in there.

A number of AM4 Gigabyte boards, mine included, seem to run the fans at full speed before POST. It might only occur on BIOS revisions supporting Ryzen 3000, because I know my board doesn't do it with initial firmware and a 2600. If it runs like that indefinitely, or keeps on bootlooping before it reaches the logo screen (where you'll find the shortcuts for BIOS, Q-flash, bootmenu, etc.), it's a pretty common symptom of bad RAM preventing the system from POSTing. It's the same deal with questionable RAM that may require a lot of time training (which is what usually takes place during the 100% fan period, and causes bootloops as well) for the system to find stable timings. I had a bad kit, with which the system would just do the 100% fan thing forever until shut off.

If the Windows installation is bad, that still takes place after POST. And if the drive is dead or unrecognisable, that should also be an issue that takes place after POST.

On the other hand, from what I know about Intel systems, a bad GPU _won't_ necessarily prevent POST from taking place, but because most AM4 CPUs don't have iGPUs I don't know if that's still the case. But I'm very surprised that the system has been functioning just fine for months, up until now.


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## sepheronx (May 11, 2020)

But the screen doesnt show anything.  It is completely black so you cant see bios or anything.  Keyboard doesnt light up either.  So it wont even get to post.

So it went from - Getting into Windows then blue screened to now not even showing Bios period.  Which leads me to believe RAM issue as I had this long ago with a old 775 system that did same thing showing dead RAM.  Unless CPU is no good


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## tabascosauz (May 11, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> But the screen doesnt show anything.  It is completely black so you cant see bios or anything.  Keyboard doesnt light up either.  So it wont even get to post.
> 
> So it went from - Getting into Windows then blue screened to now not even showing Bios period.  Which leads me to believe RAM issue as I had this long ago with a old 775 system that did same thing showing dead RAM.  Unless CPU is no good



You haven't messed with Vcore or PBO during your time with the 3500X, have you? I assume you've tried resetting the CMOS jumper before pulling the CMOS battery?

It's supposed to be like that. POST concludes when the logo screen comes on, then you can access the BIOS. There's not supposed to be any video during that time. 

You don't have to feel "scummy" for getting new RAM for testing purposes. I returned my Vengeance LPX because it was straight up shit and I wasn't going to put up with only using half of it at JEDEC speeds and being unstable at that. And if my first Trident Z kit (now my backup kit) didn't do the trick, I was going to go back and forth and try different kits until I got one that worked. I let the guy at the counter know exactly what I was doing, what I needed. You're a decent guy, you know how to handle electronics, you'll return the product exactly as it came to you so that it's ready for the next guy - as long as you're not damaging the sticks, they really don't care. 

'tis the Ryzen life, trying RAM until you find one that works. Our atonement for being spoiled by Intel for a decade


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## sepheronx (May 11, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> You haven't messed with Vcore or PBO during your time with the 3500X, have you? I assume you've tried resetting the CMOS jumper before pulling the CMOS battery?
> 
> It's supposed to be like that. POST concludes when the logo screen comes on, then you can access the BIOS. There's not supposed to be any video during that time.
> 
> ...



Not the jumper, no.  I will give it a shot with the RAM.  Hopefully that is all the issue is.  No, I haven't messed with any bios setting except enabling XMP.  But the cmos battery being pulled should have reset it all to default.


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## sepheronx (May 17, 2020)

So my initial concern was correct - I replaced the ram with GSKILL Ripjaw V 3200 2x8GB modules and it fired up no problem.  So the GSkill Flare X are dead.  Gotta RMA it now.


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