# No Retention Bracket!!



## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

my new am2 processor just came! i opened up my case took out my old heatsink to find that there was no retention bracket on my mb!!! the old cpu is an am2 athlon 64 x2, and so is the new one, but the new one i got requires you to clip the heatsink into a retention bracket, on my old heatsink the whole thing just screwed into the MB! here is a pic of my MB without the heatsink in.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 here is a pic of my old heatsink.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 here is a pic of my new heatsink.. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



as you can see the old heatsink screwed directly into the mb, and the new heatsink didnt come with a retention bracket... I need a retention bracket!!! will any am2 retention bracket work??? can some1 link me to some sites i can buy some off of?? my pc is a gateway gt5220 and my mb model is: C51PVGM-GB 4006136R


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> as you can see the old heatsink screwed directly into the mb, and the new heatsink didnt come with a retention bracket... I need a retention bracket!!! will any am2 retention bracket work??? can some1 link me to some sites i can buy some off of?? my pc is a gateway gt5220 and my mb model is: C51PVGM-GB 4006136R



Any AM2 Bracket should work. You MIGHT be able to send gateway an e-mail asking for one, for an upgrade, or find one second-hand.

The reason you don't have one is because it was a gateway board (And their custom heatsink). The retention bracket is part of the AM2 spec, and Gateway uses a custom solution (Which is why the AMD CPU came with a heatsink requiring the bracket).


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## BrooksyX (Jul 24, 2009)

Why can't you just use the old heatsink? The included AMD heatsink won't perform much better.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jul 24, 2009)

BrooksyX said:


> Why can't you just use the old heatsink? The included AMD heatsink won't perform much better.



This would probably work fine also. Just re-apply thermal paste properly.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

well im scared. wut if it doesnt and the cpu fries and i cant return it cuz i voided the warrenty cuz i used a heatsink that didnt come with the cpu.... and the original heatsink is like 4 years old.. and btw i do have arctic silver 5.... but im too scared to use the old heatsink... maybe if i got more opinions on it i would feel better doing it. and also can some1 help me find some am2 retention brackets?


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

COME ON PPL I WANT ANOTHER OPINION FROM SOME1 PLZ OMG IM FREAKIN OUT


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## Nick89 (Jul 24, 2009)

Facepalm/ 

Then dont use the new processor or make up your mind. Just because the old heat sink is 4 years old does not mean it will not work. USE the old heat sink.

There is NO reason the old heat sink would cause youre new processor to die....


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

if i get this retention bracket, http://www.cwc-group.com/am2retention.html, will i need this, http://www.xsfans.com/index.php?mai...id=535&zenid=0b3d9c3841673b3741f900c1e7783f3b ?


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## pbmaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Yes you will. If you're going to all this trouble for a stupid bracket why not man up and get an aftermarket cooler as well?


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

i wasnt sure if i needed the backplate or not but why would i need it? couldnt i just screw the retention bracket into the 4 holes in the motherboard?


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## pbmaster (Jul 24, 2009)

Yes, now that after looking more closely I think you could....and upon even further inspection the back plate might not even fit. Just hope the bracket lines up with the holes.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

why wouldnt it line up with the holes? its an am2 motherboard and an am2 processor. is there some type of problem i might run into with the bracket not fitting on the motherboard?


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## BrooksyX (Jul 24, 2009)

Just use the old heatsink! An amd retention bracket might not even fit your motherboard. It looks like the old heatsink doesn't have a fan though. Unscrew the fan from the amd heatsink and screw it into the old heatsink. The old heatsink will work just fine.


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## denice25 (Jul 24, 2009)

i like your new heatsink!!! very nice!!


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

ok brooksy but why would it might not fit???


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

Well since that mobo was never designed to have a retention bracket fitted you have 2 options - use the old heatsink and stick a fan onto it if you're really worried or get a new motherboard which will have a bracket on (any AM2 motherboard you'd be able to buy from an etailer will have a bracket).

TBH that old heatsink will do ok at stock speeds, it's made of metal so the age really doesn't matter. If your cpu did overheat it would slow itself down to reduce its heat output and you'd get a lot of warning beeps from your motherboard telling you there was a problem. If a cpu continues to get too hot it will eventually shut itself down as those mobos will probably have overheat protection which can't be disabled.

**edit**

A retention bracket won't fit that mobo because the capacitors have been placed so that they are where the retention bracket would need to be if you tried to fit one, so it cannot physically fit on that motherboard.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> why wouldnt it line up with the holes? its an am2 motherboard and an am2 processor. is there some type of problem i might run into with the bracket not fitting on the motherboard?



The holes should be standard. The screws also should hold the bracket on to the motherboard just fine if you choose to go that route. However, the old cooler will most likely work fine. You could order the bracket and give the old heatsink a shot in the meantime if you want to use it in the end anyways. Using the old heatsink should in no way "fry" your CPU. Just watch your temperatures regardless. If the CPU gets too hot it should either reduce its clockspeed, or shut itself down. You should be able to run it without a heatsink, and it still survive (albeit not remain stable most likely), IDEALLY, if it was designed properly.

Just clean the bottom of the heatsink well, apply arctic silver properly, and you will most likely be fine.

Use a temperature monitor. If they are above 50-60C I would go with the bracket and new heatsink.

Also make sure there is good airflow around the heatsink from the case, regardless.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

ok but human error has a good point. would the bracket fit since there are capacitors in the way? the old heatsink sat on top of the capacitors... so wouldnt the bracket just sit on top of them too?


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

also the bottom of the old heatsink is weird... the thing that sticks out on the bottom is placed on there diagonally. will that in any way reduce cooling?


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

On that image i've highlighted the problems with fitting a amd bracket to that mobo - most are just small resistors which may be ok if you are very careful and fix some sort of thin foam pad between them and the bracket (if you don't and the bracket has any kind of movement you could break free from its solder and break the mobo).

The large caps and mofoset on the bottom right area don't have enough space between them for the retention bracket to fit between - you'd have to try and cut the bracket to fit to the mobo, which may weaken it to a point where it could break easily OR you'd brak the mobo (neither are good options).

This is of course using the black plastic standard AMD retention bracket.

**edit**

The old cooler would fit because it does not need to be flush to the motherboard, which is why it has that diamond shaped area which is lower than the rest of the cooler so it can make contact to the cpu - the rest is raised away from the mobo so it doesn't tough the other parts.

The diamond shape contact to the cpu is fine - the metal cover on the cpu is larger than the core itself - the diamond would cover all the area which the core would be under on the cpu, which is fine as the coreners won't produce any heat as there is nothing under them.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

ok dont forget to take a look at my post right above urs... we posted at the same time ;o


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

and all those things you got circled are almost TOTALLY flat. they are very small bumps on the mb even tho they look like they stick out a little.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> and all those things you got circled are almost TOTALLY flat. they are very small bumps on the mb even tho they look like they stick out a little.



The resistors around the North, east, west sides of the picture should be fine, yes, but the only "problem" might be the caps on the south side.

If the mobo was designed within AM2 spec, there is no reason for the bracket to not fit.

Consider a new mobo, if you aren't comfortable with the old heatsink, and/or placing a bracket on that. A new one (www.newegg.com) will come with a bracket already installed, for sure, and will save you the $10-$30 of trying a replacement bracket beforehand.


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> and all those things you got circled are almost TOTALLY flat. they are very small bumps on the mb even tho they look like they stick out a little.



i have edited my previous post with more info - plus they are very flat yes, but the amd retention bracket lies completely flat against a motherboard - as i said you'd need a foam pad between the bracket and those resistors to prevent damage (i've seen a mobo where someone refitted a retention bracket after they bought a new cooler and didn't protect the resistors with anything - the bracket was slightly loose and managed to damage a couple of them, after that his mobo was useless.

That is all moot anyway as the space between the cap and mofoset i highlighted isn't be enough to the bracket to fit between, soyou can't physically fit a bracket there.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

ok.. im about to try the old heatsink... you are totally sure the old one wont fry my processor or damage it in any way?
the old heatsink does have a fan but its on the side it isnt attached to it


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> ok.. im about to try the old heatsink... you are totally sure the old one wont fry my processor or damage it in any way?



it should be fine, if it would damage the processor you'd get plently of warning to turn the computer off - when you load up run coretemp and get prime95 - tell us what the temps are on coretemp with prime95 running any of its tests and we can say if it can cool the cpu enough.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

k. i have speedfan. with my old cpu my normal temps were 28-30c idle and 38-40 under full load


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> k. i have speedfan. with my old cpu my normal temps were 28-30c idle and 38-40 under full load



what was your old cpu and what is your new one? (model numbers like 5800+ will be enough info).


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

old one was 3800+ 2.0ghz, new one is 5600+ 2.8ghz


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> old one was 3800+ 2.0ghz, new one is 5600+ 2.8ghz



Higher speed, so you will get slightly higher temps.

40-50C is fine.


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## newtekie1 (Jul 24, 2009)

Old heatsink should be fine, it might run a little hotter than some would like, but it won't damage the processor.

Processors have protection built in to prevent overheating.  Either the computer will shut down before any damage is done, or the CPU will throttle itself to slower speeds to stop itself from overheating(I don't know if AMD CPUs do this).


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

40-50 under full load? and whats the highest temp the cpu should get b4 its too high


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

The 3800+ and 5600+ have the same TDP so they will be able to run with the same heatsink, but as others have said it will run hotter as it's the same core just at a higher speed.

I normally don't worry about heat damaging my cpu until ~80 degrees C, although my current one has been upto 100 degrees before i shut the pc down to prevent damage (it isn't damaged as far as i can tell).

**edit**



newtekie1 said:


> Processors have protection built in to prevent overheating.  Either the computer will shut down before any damage is done, or the CPU will throttle itself to slower speeds to stop itself from overheating(I don't know if AMD CPUs do this).



Yeah AMD procs have overheat protection in-built (since K7 days at least), they will shut down if way too hot and will downclock if they get too warm - all before they take any damage. Also your mobo will have cool'n'quiet enabled permenantly so it will keep the processor as slow as possible when idling to keep your temps down as low as possible, so no problem.


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## newtekie1 (Jul 24, 2009)

I generally really start to worry at 75°C.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

k. i also got 2 120mm fans on the side of the case, one intake one outtake to help airflow


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

im uploading another picture. i managed to get about 99% of the old paste that was on the heatsink. theres still a tiny tiny tiny bit left in the little grooves in the hs so do i have to get it totally 100% out or is this fine... wait a min for my pic


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)




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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

that'll be fine, the area where the cpu makes contact with the heatsink is clean which is the main thing. You can use 100% rubbing alcohol to really clean the heatsink well but considering the small difference in temps it would make <1 degree it won't be worth it on your heatsink.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

im using 70% rubbin alcohol. thats all the store had


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> im using 70% rubbin alcohol. thats all the store had



That's good enough  (don't tell anyone but i never bother with cleaning my heatsinks off properly - i just wipe the surface with kitchen paper  , usually as i only remove them to put a new heatsink/waterblock on to replace them  )


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

ok. im done cleaning it now ima wait about 5mins so it can get totally dry


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

when i got 28-30, 38-45 temps b4 that was also with cheap paste that came with the pc. i have as5 now


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## MilkyWay (Jul 24, 2009)

2 options so far, put the old heatsink back on and hope it keeps it reasonable at stock or get a new mobo and a cheapo cpu cooler (anything is better than that hunk or iron ore) so you can oc a little the stock one that comes with AMD cpus can do small oc like a few 100 mhz nothign drastic tho


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

im not overclocking, and the heatsink has a 120mm fan too, it just isnt sitting on top of the heatsink and its not connected so u dont c it...


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

might be 90mm idk.. its a tad bigger than 80mm but not as big as 120.


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

The only way you can be sure that the cpu cooler is good enough is to watch the temps while running prime95 for a good hour or two, that'll really push the temps up.

P.S. a little off-topic but it is forum rules to not make 2 or more consecutive posts, you can add more info to a pre existing post using the edit button in the bottom right of your post.


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## MilkyWay (Jul 24, 2009)

look a bit weak should do okay for stock, that my friend is 90mm, get a ruler out or something

80mm? never seen that before


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

how did i do with the paste? too much too little? its very thin. i used the amount about the size of an uncookd grain of rice, then smeard it around with a baggie til it was all even and thin


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## pbmaster (Jul 24, 2009)

An almost translucent layer is good. Pressure will do the fine spreading, so your layer doesn't have to be perfect.


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## hat (Jul 24, 2009)

That cooler should be fine since it has that fan shroud thing.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

ok i jus screwd on the hs... i screwd it on, not that tight but to the point it stopd going down. i didnt use too much force in the screwing, but would it hurt if i screwd it a little too tight?


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## BobBarr (Jul 24, 2009)

Freaking Gateway Man.


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## hat (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> ok i jus screwd on the hs... i screwd it on, not that tight but to the point it stopd going down. i didnt use too much force in the screwing, but would it hurt if i screwd it a little too tight?



Actually you want it to be as tight as possible to the heatsink makes the most direct contact with the cpu as possible, but not so tight that you break the screw


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

all done, turning it on now


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## newtekie1 (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> http://i26.tinypic.com/1ex85x.jpg



After seeing that, the heatsink might benefit from a little lapping if your temps seems a little high.  Maybe a project for another time though, you probably just want the computer up and running at this point. I know I would.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

ok my pc recognizes it. works good so far. got an idle temp of 36. running cpu stability test 6.0 now ill leave it running for a while. its been going for a few mins already and the temp is at 51.. im using speed fan and it has a little flame icon next to the temp  but i thought 51 wasnt bad? and wuts the max temp i should let it get to b4 i take it out and go for the new retention brackets?


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

use coretemp - i find the program to be more accurate than speedtemp plus the tjmax value is the max temperature for your cpu (should be ~90ish degrees i'd say) - hotter than that and the cpu will lower its speed to prevent damage.


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## newtekie1 (Jul 24, 2009)

Like I said, start to worry about 75°C, turn it off right away at about 80°C.

Try running OCCT, it basically has coretemp built into it, and will automatically stop the test if the CPU gets too hot.  The default test is just a front end for Prime95, and the LinPack test will really torture the CPU.  If it doesn't overheat under LinPack, it won't overheat at all.


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## hat (Jul 24, 2009)

speedfan is terrible... use coretemp instead. coretemp will probably give you a higher reading since it measures the temp of the core and not the cpu socket

anything under 65c in coretemp is fine


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

ok im gettin coretemp rit now. ill use lin..w/e in a min


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

core temp shows the same temps as speedfan, and i dont see the max temp on core temp... where is it?


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> core temp shows the same temps as speedfan, and i dont see the max temp on core temp... where is it?



It is the "Tj. Max" value.

Normally i see speedtemp showing lower readings than coretemp, havn't used it in a couple of years though so they may have improved it.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

i dont see tj anything... and cpu test has been runnin for 16mins and the max temp ive seen is 54, its usually on 53 tho. getting linpack now




edit

i cant get linpack to work, and in case u mean TCase Max, theres nothing on that, its greyd out


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> i dont see tj anything... and cpu test has been runnin for 16mins and the max temp ive seen is 54, its usually on 53 tho. getting linpack now



you should see something like this (with less cores though)


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

this is wut it says for me.


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## newtekie1 (Jul 24, 2009)

It is called T.Case Max with AMDs, and with the older Athlon X2's might not have anything in it.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

hmm ill look on google. im gona run cpu stability test for an hour at least ill keep u updated


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

im using intelburntest v2.3 and so far the temp has gotten up to 58


edit


the intelburntest got up to 59 degrees C, and i think its the same prog as linpack with a dif name.
can some1 tell me if this is correct and if that temp is good?


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> im using intelburntest v2.3 and so far the temp has gotten up to 58



Should be fine then, looks like you cpu wont go over 65 degrees which is what i always aim to keep a system below when under load for a while on intelburn (other than heavily overclocked systems of course  )

**edit**

59 degrees is fine.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

well intelburn only ran the test 5 times took it about 10mins. was that long enuf?


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## human_error (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> well intelburn only ran the test 5 times took it about 10mins. was that long enuf?



you can always run it for longer, usually with active coolers (coolers with fans on them - i count your cooler as one with a fan) 10-15 mins is normally long enough for intel burn to reach the hottest the cpu should get (intel burn gets cpus very hot, so 15 mins on intel burn is the same as a lot longer with normal apps running the cores at 100% load). If it had no fan i'd say run it a couple of hours to see hot the heat builds up, but you don't need to do that.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

kool. thx guys you were all big help! now i cant wait for my new psu and gpu 2moro ;s i hope the psu isnt gona be a bitch like the cpu was -.-


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## eidairaman1 (Jul 24, 2009)

Nick89 said:


> Facepalm/
> 
> Then dont use the new processor or make up your mind. Just because the old heat sink is 4 years old does not mean it will not work. USE the old heat sink.
> 
> There is NO reason the old heat sink would cause youre new processor to die....



He voids the warranty of Gateway by upgrading the processor himself, if i'm not mistaken.


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## Nick89 (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> kool. thx guys you were all big help! now i cant wait for my new psu and gpu 2moro ;s i hope the psu isnt gona be a bitch like the cpu was -.-



Oh dear, did you just say new PSU with a Prebuilt gateway.  LMAO HAHAHAHA.... oh man I'm sorry...

Hopefully Gateway doesn't use custom PSU connecters like DELL. 



eidairaman1 said:


> He voids the warranty of Gateway by upgrading the processor himself, if i'm not mistaken.



Did I say anything about a warranty?



stayplation3 said:


> if i get this retention bracket, http://www.cwc-group.com/am2retention.html, will i need this, http://www.xsfans.com/index.php?mai...id=535&zenid=0b3d9c3841673b3741f900c1e7783f3b ?



The back plate and bracket will not fit the mobo for two reasons: there are capacitors in the way of the bracket, and the heatsink actually holds your mobo to the mother board tray so a back plate would not fit.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

if the psu doesnt fit ill get a new case and mb. and how would amd even kno if i used a different heatsink? if this one fails i can just say the old one didnt work, and when they get it and if they test it and it works ill play stupid and say it didnt work in my pc. ;o and besides it only got up to 59c with the cpu tester.. and with the tester i used itl never get over 59


edit

found a page of people talkinbg about psu's in gateways, it will work just fine! =] http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=46712


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## Nick89 (Jul 24, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> if the psu doesnt fit ill get a new case and mb. and how would amd even kno if i used a different heatsink? if this one fails i can just say the old one didnt work, and when they get it and if they test it and it works ill play stupid and say it didnt work in my pc. ;o and besides it only got up to 59c with the cpu tester.. and with the tester i used itl never get over 59



Thats good if its not getting over 59C.


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## newtekie1 (Jul 24, 2009)

eidairaman1 said:


> He voids the warranty of Gateway by upgrading the processor himself, if i'm not mistaken.



Last time I checked with Gateway's warranty department on upgrading their computers, they told me upgrading didn't void the warranty, they just wouldn't warranty the parts I upgraded.

So his original processor and the new processor both won't be covered by Gateways warranty.  The new processor should be covered by AMD's warranty though.


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## Dippyskoodlez (Jul 24, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> Last time I checked with Gateway's warranty department on upgrading their computers, they told me upgrading didn't void the warranty, they just wouldn't warranty the parts I upgraded.
> 
> So his original processor and the new processor both won't be covered by Gateways warranty.  The new processor should be covered by AMD's warranty though.



Correct. There is a federal law preventing specific user servicable parts like Hard drives and Memory voiding a whole systems warranty.(I upgraded my Macbook Pro's Hard drive/Ram and apple still services it.)

CPU should be no exception. It's easy enough.

Unless *you* screw it up.


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## stayplation3 (Jul 24, 2009)

lol the gateway is like 3 years old the warrenty on it ran out, and if you use a hs/fan that didnt come with the cpu it voids the warrenty


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## stayplation3 (Jul 25, 2009)

the power supply i got slipped in like butter and works great in meh btx case http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=D15-1202


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## hat (Jul 25, 2009)

looks like a decent psu, although I don't remember hearing from that brand before...


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## Dreadnought33 (Jul 25, 2009)

Neither have I. It seems that uses pasive PFC:shadedshu


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## hat (Jul 25, 2009)

That's not really a problem... just make sure it's set to the right voltage


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## newtekie1 (Jul 25, 2009)

stayplation3 said:


> if you use a hs/fan that didnt come with the cpu it voids the warrenty



Well you don't tell them you didn't use the stock HSF when you try to RMA it...

And I would spend the extra $10 and get this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104034


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## hat (Jul 25, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> Well you don't tell them you didn't use the stock HSF when you try to RMA it...



yeah really, they would never know lol

Besides, it's not as if you could actually get an aftermarket cooler that's *worse* than the stock cooler... the only thing worse than the stock cooler is a proprietary cooler like what he has. Most retail systems I've seen actually look like they have better cooling than the stock cooler, lol


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## stayplation3 (Aug 15, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> Well you don't tell them you didn't use the stock HSF when you try to RMA it...
> 
> And I would spend the extra $10 and get this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104034



what extra $10? and why do i need that power supply?


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## 95Viper (Aug 15, 2009)

Just a little trivia for you.

At the time period your Gateway was built they were using the BTX form factor.  That is why your board setup is a little different from the atx, m-atx, and mostly still used form factors.
There is nothing wrong with this type of setup, but it was never fully embraced by the public or system/MB builders as it introduced additional cost over existing atx type form factor.  And other business reasons...

Here is a good starting point for info:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTX_(form_factor)

EDIT:

Here is the spec on that form factor:http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/BTX%20System%20Design%20Guide_1.1.pdf
Section 2.4.5.1.2 shows you why the heatsink for the cpu is shaped as it is.


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