# First Intel machine in 7 years. Intel CPU's? Q6600 vs. E8400?



## AddSub (Apr 28, 2008)

I'm putting together a new machine for myself. It will probably be Intel based, for the first time in 7 years, after nearly a dozen AMD machines. Problem is, I don't have a good grasp of what's good and what's not, Intel-wise. I've been reading articles and reviews on various Intel platforms and I still can't really decide which way to go. 

*CPU-wise*, I was either thinking a E8400 or a Q6600, or maybe E6850? Not sure. They are all similarly priced. I will be doing a lot of gaming along with standard web-browsing, listening to music, encoding videos every now and then. I do gfx work and I hear quad-cores are really good for that, but not so good for gaming. I will be overclocking, of course, but probably with a stock fan, at the start at least. I noticed decent Intel HS/fan combos are a bit expensive ($60+) and sub-$50 coolers are not that much better than a stock cooler. 

*Motherboard-wise* I have no idea. Everybody is recommending P35 based motherboards, but I have a GeForce 8800GTX and I might be getting another one soon, so I need an SLI motherboard. Again problem is, 680i motherboards seem buggy and 780i ones are overly expensive. I'm looking for something SLI-wise (not necessary though) with dual Gb LAN and at least some expandability (2-3 standard PCI slots).

*RAM-wise* I am also a bit confused. With AMD, timings are really what mattered, especially with DDR and in relation to gaming. I see that for Intel, overall bandwidth is more important. I found plenty of 2x2GB kits on Newegg, but I have no idea which is better then the other. They are priced about the same. I would be getting 8GB RAM-wise (two 2x2GB kits)

I would appreciate any assistance. Easy way for someone to pump up their "Thanked" count.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Apr 28, 2008)

GEil evo's for ram ...if ur gaming get a 8500/8400 and a xigmatek 1283


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## ShadowFold (Apr 28, 2008)

Heres what I suggest.
E8400, Foxconn P35A, and ADATA RAM. A-DATA's work well with Foxconn's so im getting a cheaper pair for my self


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## AsRock (Apr 28, 2008)

AddSub said:


> I'm putting together a new machine for myself. It will probably be Intel based, for the first time in 7 years, after nearly a dozen AMD machines. Problem is, I don't have a good grasp of what's good and what's not, Intel-wise. I've been reading articles and reviews on various Intel platforms and I still can't really decide which way to go.
> 
> *CPU-wise*, I was either thinking a E8400 or a Q6600, or maybe E6850? Not sure. They are all similarly priced. I will be doing a lot of gaming along with standard web-browsing, listening to music, encoding videos every now and then. I do gfx work and I hear quad-cores are really good for that, but not so good for gaming. I will be overclocking, of course, but probably with a stock fan, at the start at least. I noticed decent Intel HS/fan combos are a bit expensive ($60+) and sub-$50 coolers are not that much better than a stock cooler.
> 
> ...



I like my 8400 but maybe i should of gone quad as i am not like a lot here which upgrade much more often than me.  Buying a quad would of helped later down the road.

As for Mobos's i'm realy liking my Asus Maximus Formula x38.  Well except for the det ram that pops up every so often other wise it's been good and comes with a 3 year warranty.

I like the G.Skill with this Mobo there support has been very responsive as well. If overclocking or benchmarking is not a big thing to you this is good ram...  And no they DO NOT use Micron chips but seem to run there rated speed without issue's for me.


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## Kreij (Apr 28, 2008)

It would help if you posted an approximate budget that you are willing to spend.

Also, there are sub $60 coolers that are much better than the stock one. For instance, the Nirvana that I use (in specs) is under $50 at the egg and holds its own against a TRUE except in extreme OC'ing.


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## lemonadesoda (Apr 28, 2008)

Unless you are going to use RAM at 1333, then with the E8400 you've got a RAM/FSb divider going, and therefore the higher FSB of the E8400 over the Q6600 is moot.

Since the price is similar, and they typically both overclock easily to 3.3-3.4, I'd go with the Quad core. There are certain tasks that it will EAT compared to the E8400, like your encoding tasks.







Heres a good review to help you decide: http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=499

Remember the review statistics are at STOCK. So  putting the Q6600 at the same speeds as the E8400 only improves its position.


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## farlex85 (Apr 29, 2008)

I'd do the 8400, p7n 750i sli mb, and some g.skill ddr2 1000 memory (2x2gb), all found at the egg. The q6600 is leaving, if you want quad I would at least do the q6700, as its cheap enough now to warrant it and that extra multi will help you. Although, I personally would get the q9450 or x3350. Yes I know they don't clock as fast as the 65nm ones, but they are faster clock for clock and use less heat and power and such, achieving the highest oc is not the end all be all of a chip.


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## AddSub (Apr 29, 2008)

lemonadesoda, would any PC6400/DDR2-800 RAM @ 4-4-4-x or 5-5-5-x do? Or do I have to aim for something better? I can get 8GB of 5-5-5-x DDR2-800 for about $130. Also, how far will stock cooler get me with Q6600 or E8400? OC-wise...


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 29, 2008)

farlex85 said:


> I'd do the 8400, p7n 750i sli mb, and some g.skill ddr2 1000 memory (2x2gb), all found at the egg. The q6600 is leaving, if you want quad I would at least do the q6700, as its cheap enough now to warrant it and that extra multi will help you. Although, I personally would get the q9450 or x3350. Yes I know they don't clock as fast as the 65nm ones, but they are faster clock for clock and use less heat and power and such, achieving the highest oc is not the end all be all of a chip.



Totally agree with this. If all you do is game AddSub then e8400 would be the sweet spot. Also, hold off on that 2 2x2gb kits, get one for now rated for PC8500 CL5.


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## AddSub (Apr 29, 2008)

What about two of these kits?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227284

or maybe two of these?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227269


Someone told me having all DIMM's filled can lower the overall CPU overclock. True?


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 29, 2008)

Not totally true, you have to up your northbridge voltage a tad more. Reapers are very nice. If you have the $$ get them.


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## deathbyburk (Apr 29, 2008)

I had the same decision to make and went with the e8400 and dont regret my decision 1 bit.


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## cdawall (Apr 29, 2008)

if your going to do gfx and video editing get a Q6600/Q6700 3.5ghz+ isn't exactly bad for gaming umm i will build you a rig really quick

cpu: Q6600

mobo: MSI P7N SLi

ram: OCZ reapers

cooler: Xigmatek S1283


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## BarbaricSoul (Apr 29, 2008)

> Since the price is similar, and they typically both overclock easily to 3.3-3.4



Ah, my 8400 goes to 3.8 without changing anyother bio's setting. It can OC up to 4500 mhz with the stock cooler. The 8400 for gaming beats the 6600, but only for gaming as games don't use all 4 cores of a quad.

My suggestion would be 8400 cpu, evga 750ftw motherboard, 3 gig's of ddr2800 ram(4 gig if your gonna run a 64 bit OS), psu in the 650-750 watt range and a 9800 gtx or gx2 (EVGA preferred for thier step up program and excellent customer support)


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## AddSub (Apr 29, 2008)

Hmm, nice setup. Thanks. Would this be a better mobo choice? 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130080

It has few extras like dual Gb, Creative Sound, and better RAID setup and few others. Same cash too (well $5 less)


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## ShadowFold (Apr 29, 2008)

AddSub said:


> Hmm, nice setup. Thanks. Would this be a better mobo choice?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130080
> 
> It has few extras like dual Gb, Creative Sound, and better RAID setup and few others. Same cash too (well $5 less)



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188026

750i = revised 680i. EVGA makes great stock boards. I know my friend has the EVGA 780i and he has his Q6600 at 3.8ghz or something around there  Plus PCIe 2.0 could be useful in the future!


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## BarbaricSoul (Apr 29, 2008)

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6278/testjl6.png


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 29, 2008)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131232 Only cons to this board, no dual Gb LAN, and does not do tri sli (if your truly interested in that).


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## BarbaricSoul (Apr 29, 2008)

AddSub said:


> Hmm, nice setup. Thanks. Would this be a better mobo choice?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130080
> 
> It has few extras like dual Gb, Creative Sound, and better RAID setup and few others. Same cash too (well $5 less)



IMHO, like I said in my 1st post, EVGA preferred for thier step up program and excellent customer support


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## AddSub (Apr 29, 2008)

Well dual SLI would be fine. Triple is not really cost effective. I really need dual Gb LAN because of my current network setup. Lot of high bandwidth VNC traffic and such. Lot Gb to Gb direct lines running between various nodes. (Much better and faster than having several expensive Gb switches) 

So, RAM-wise, anything DDR2-800 will do? And the whole 4-DIMM overclocking myth is just that, a myth?


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## JrRacinFan (Apr 29, 2008)

Only a myth IF you run 1066 sticks and dont mind upping your NB voltage a lil higher than normal. I think the best person to answer this would be other members though that own 4 sticks.


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## BarbaricSoul (Apr 29, 2008)

AddSub said:


> So, RAM-wise, anything DDR2-800 will do? And the whole 4-DIMM overclocking myth is just that, a myth?



My personal preference is Crucial Ballistics Tracer. I just recently bought 3 GIG of ddr2 800(two 1 gig sticks and two 512 meg sticks) for about $100 off newegg. I see alot of people recommend G-skill RAM also, probably the most out of all ram brands. Corsair, Patriot, and Kingston(not value RAM though) all make a good product that I have used before and I have never had a memory problem. Make sure you do get RAM with a cas latency of 4, not 5 though(better performance)

I have no problem with 4 sticks of RAM, and mine is OC to 950


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## cdawall (Apr 29, 2008)

how about some of these?

the el-cheapo patriot extremes


my 24/7 @ 2.3v






i was trying to get high 3.0 clocks also 2.3v






best 3.0 clock i could get






and here is one that shows stock profiles





mine were not $35 and these are D9s
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220174


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## spearman914 (Apr 29, 2008)

Get a DFI DK P35 T2RS , E8400, and Mushkin DDR2 800 2 x 2 gb. I don't know why mushkin is not popular but its way better then you think it is. With that combination pwning 4.4 GHz + on high-end air is quite easy.


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## farid (Apr 29, 2008)

AddSub said:


> I'm putting together a new machine for myself. It will probably be Intel based, for the first time in 7 years, after nearly a dozen AMD machines. Problem is, I don't have a good grasp of what's good and what's not, Intel-wise. I've been reading articles and reviews on various Intel platforms and I still can't really decide which way to go.
> 
> *CPU-wise*, I was either thinking a E8400 or a Q6600, or maybe E6850? Not sure. They are all similarly priced. I will be doing a lot of gaming along with standard web-browsing, listening to music, encoding videos every now and then. I do gfx work and I hear quad-cores are really good for that, but not so good for gaming. I will be overclocking, of course, but probably with a stock fan, at the start at least. I noticed decent Intel HS/fan combos are a bit expensive ($60+) and sub-$50 coolers are not that much better than a stock cooler.
> 
> ...



If you wanna go 2-way SLi I extremely recommend you to get E8400+EVGA 750i FTW+2GB Corsair Dominator 1066 MHz Cas 5; thats my rig and it goes very smooth and very well 

The Mobo supports 1066 DDR2 as memory standard, and OC the E8400 very very well, 2-Way SLi plus that mobo price is reasonable, at least for me.

Good luck


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## AddSub (Apr 29, 2008)

Well, I've been looking over various Intel/775 motherboards on Newegg, and I must admit, they are pretty crappy compared to what is offered by identical manufacturers on AMD platform (AM2). I'm talking about DFI, ASUS, Jetway, etc.

I don't know if all the good Intel motherboards are out of stock, or sold out, or something, but on average, a plain SLI (full 16x16 SLI, not cut-down 8x8)  motherboard, with decent RAID setup, HD audio, dual Gb LAN, debug LED, and plenty of expandability (PCI slots that is) is much harder to find for/on Intel platforms. Seriously, if you use the advanced filter on Newegg to find motherboards with such feature sets, you will only find maybe few (about 2 for Intel) and about dozen or more for AMD platform. In addition Intel options seem to be severely overpriced vs. their AMD counterparts. 

I did check out DFI's website as well as other manufacturers and it seems there are more Intel motherboards out there, except they are nowhere to be found in North America. The few I found, DFI LanParty ones, can only be bought in Asia or Europe.

Ugh! Now I know why I stayed away from Intel. It wasn't the CPU's. 

Well, I already sold my primary machine (one the in specs), so I will have to get something in the next day or two. Otherwise I will have to start using one of my media boxes or my server for every day tasks.


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## farlex85 (Apr 29, 2008)

Thats odd, there's plenty of great intel boards at decent prices I thought. Do you really need the dual gb lan and a debug led? Sacrifice those and you will have plenty of options on the p35 front. If your going sli, msi p7n is hands down the way to go, and it is priced pretty well.

But hey, if amd mb are fitting your bill better, stick w/ them. I personally think their advantages vastly outnumber the cons, whether your talking mb or cpu.


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## AddSub (Apr 29, 2008)

Well thing of it is, my old socket 939 EVGA motherboard, from my primary that I sold, had dual Gb, full 16x16 SLI capability (not 8x8 that I see on many 6xxi and 7xxi motherboards), it had stable feature-packed RAID setup, plenty of expandability, decent onboard Audio (that I didn't use), and I only paid about $80 +s&h for it on Newegg, and that was few months after it was launched.

I'll be damned if I'm going to pay nearly three times that amount for a motherboard, Intel or AMD, that doesn't have half those features.


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## farlex85 (Apr 29, 2008)

Well, yeah, I guess that sucks. Can't really offer much advice then. If you want all that stuff if intel doesn't got it, then stick with amd i guess. The dual gb lan is really gonna be the tough one to find probably, the other things can be had. If you can sacrifice some of it for a more powerful cpu, then choose that route (sorry, I know I just stated the obvious).


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## AddSub (Apr 29, 2008)

Yeah, it seem like that. More CPU power with Intel CPU's and motherboards straight out of Dell OEM catalogues, 

*OR* 

a much, MUCH, weaker AMD CPU option with motherboards that are feature-packed. Motherboards where designers just went crazy and stopped only when they ran out of room on the PCB.

Ugh. Well, I will keep looking.


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## lemonadesoda (Apr 29, 2008)

AddSub said:


> lemonadesoda, would any PC6400/DDR2-800 RAM @ 4-4-4-x or 5-5-5-x do? Or do I have to aim for something better? I can get 8GB of 5-5-5-x DDR2-800 for about $130. Also, how far will stock cooler get me with Q6600 or E8400? OC-wise...



1./ Getting faster RAM is always good. But I have looked into this on both DDR and DDR2. It is a price/performance balance. You get a big speed improvement by being able to run the RAM faster, e.g. 800 rather than 667, etc. (e.g. 3-10% improvement depending on task) but very little difference on timings, e.g. 4-4-4 rather than 5-5-5, etc. (e.g. 0.5%-2% improvement depending on task).

Make sure than you dont spend the cash better RAM where the SAME CASH could have got you a better CPU, GPU or HDD.  You will usually get better value out of a CPU. GPU or HDD upgrade than the 0.5%-2% on memory timings.

Notwithstanding, if you CAN get better timings, do. There's no point wasting an opportunity  But dont be disappointed by the SMALL gains.

2./ Forget the stock cooler. Get a Zalman 9700 or something. It provides a combination of quieter cooling (at stock speeds) or better cooling when overclocking.  There isnothing worse than a PC that sounds like a hairdryer. I hate that. Especially when using your PC for hours, or for media.

3./ I think SLI/Crossfire is great tech. But I'm not a buyer. They really improve performance, esp. in benchmarks, but in real workld applications, you dont REALLY need them. You can run anything quiet adequately with a HIGH-END single card solution. I prefer to spend the money on a better CPU, more ram, or maybe even 2x CPU. I was amazed when I moved from P4 3.2EE to Q6600 how much extra milage I got out of a regular x800. But it depends on WHAT you have a PC for. If ONLY for gaming, then maybe. But for workstation use, a http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a318034.html, with a 4870 or 4870x2 or somesuch is MORE THAN ENOUGH! No need to crossfire.


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## tkpenalty (Apr 29, 2008)

lemonadesoda said:


> 1./ Getting faster RAM is always good. But I have looked into this on both DDR and DDR2. It is a price/performance balance. You get a big speed improvement by being able to run the RAM faster, e.g. 800 rather than 667, etc. (e.g. 3-10% improvement depending on task) but very little difference on timings, e.g. 4-4-4 rather than 5-5-5, etc. (e.g. 0.5%-2% improvement depending on task).
> 
> Make sure than you dont spend the cash better RAM where the SAME CASH could have got you a better CPU, GPU or HDD.  You will usually get better value out of a CPU. GPU or HDD upgrade than the 0.5%-2% on memory timings.
> 
> ...



Dont get a CNPS9700CU.... such a waste, when you can get top end Air cooling for less =_=.... Get the Xigmatek HDT S1283, its rebadged by other companies as well, or get the OCZ Vendetta 2 (which is also made by Xigmatek; a custom HDT S1283), you will be more pleased with this cooler than the CNPS9700CU, which is furthermore expensive.


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## AddSub (May 1, 2008)

Well I got everything except the CPU. I'm still stuck on Q6600 vs. E8400. I've been reading reviews and very few reviewers use the stock cooler when overclocking either of these CPU's.

I have no intention of wasting $50 or more on a third-party air cooler since I intend to go back to liquid cooling in a few months (when I get my 2nd 8800GTX), but until then I wonder which CPU would overclock more on the stock cooler. Are stock coolers identical for both CPU's, or does one CPU have a better one than the other? Anyone have any personal first hand experience with stock coolers and these CPU's?

Or I might just get a cheapo E2180 or something and use it for a few months until prices drop on those new 45nm quad CPU's. But then again, a E2180 even at 3GHz to 3.2Ghz wouldn't be that much better than my old Opteron @ 2.9GHz to 3GHz.


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## BarbaricSoul (May 1, 2008)

the EVGA team has a 8400 on a 750ftw motherboard OC'ed to 4500 mhz with a FSB of around 2100 on stock cooling


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## farid (May 4, 2008)

BarbaricSoul said:


> the EVGA team has a 8400 on a 750ftw motherboard OC'ed to 4500 mhz with a FSB of around 2100 on stock cooling



Yarr 750i FTW is teh beast


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## magibeg (May 4, 2008)

I have to say that Quad core is the way to go. A lot of newer games are really starting to make use out of all of the cores. With decent cooling 3.6ghz shouldn't be that big of a problem. At 3.6ghz you also get to run 1:1 with your ram at ddr2-800. Not that a faster ram speed seems to have a significant real world performance anyway from what I've seen.


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