# X850XT - ATITool isn't helping at all!!



## VyxerioN (Feb 17, 2006)

First of all I have a PowerColor ATI Radeon X850XT PCI-E videocard.

Now, I've downloaded this "seemingly" wonderful tool but have found absolutely no or VERY little results.

My defaults are set @ 520/540 right now, and I'm deathly afraid to touch ANYTHING on this program just because of the undesirable effects I've received.

I made sure to read a tutorial and an outline of the software and how it operates; fairly straightforward. Max core and max mem to find your maxs - once they're reached the software pulls them down a little.

This is what's happening for me:

*@ 540+ Max Core* - Rendering window freezes disappears and then comes back with the notification that VPU Recovery had to reset the settings because there was no response from driver commands.

*@ 605 *(I think somewhere around there) *Max Mem* - As it got to I believe around 610 I started seeing bright yellow patches in the cube, and they became bigger as temp continued to rise, then...disaster...the whole screen went into technicolor vertical stripes.


As you can tell I'm quite discouraged to use this program until I receive some serious assistance.

Please feel free to email me about anything that may help me or this program, as I'm very concerned and enthusiastic to unlock the potential of my videocard WITHOUT damaging it

Thank you very much


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## zekrahminator (Feb 17, 2006)

540/600are very respectable clocks on an X850XT with stock cooler...if you want to bring them up higher, I suggest you get an ATI silencer 5 (its not as scary as it look). If you want to find your max stable overclock WITHOUT changing your cooler, do the following...
A)Open up one of your favorite games (or just stick with the rendering window, I'd reccomend the game because the game is your actual performance)
B) Slowly inch up the clock until you either see random dots across the screen or ATItool reports temps that alarm you (anything over 50*C you should be wary, 60*C is just plain hot, about 70*C you can really see the overheat)
C) Do the same for memory clock, but this time wait for lights to not render correctly, or for things to not be rendered correctly at all (a circle with little shards of glass sticking out of it...)
D) Game for a while, clock down as needed, and then you will have your max stable settings!
E) A word of warning...the higher your temps, the shorter your card will last. I took several months off my card's life by overclocking with tiny stock cooler lol


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## OpTicaL (Feb 17, 2006)

I have the exact same card as you but in AGP form. You can safely overclock your card to PE speeds without damaging your card, but keep in mind that you must set your variable fan speed manually or else your card will keep rising in temperature and you get the techincolor screen again, because for some reason the default speed is always at 15%. Mine actually went up to 95C before shutting off. All I can say is anything over 60C you should set your fan speed to 100% because the noise difference @ 70% and 80% is the same thing.

If you can't stand the noise, get a aftermarket cooler. I recommend the zalman vf700-cu (i have one installed) if you have an extra $28 to throw around. There are two modes on the zalman, silent and normal. I left mine on "normal" mode and I can't hear any noise coming from the fan, even with my side door open. This Zalman cooler is absolutely amazing.


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## VyxerioN (Feb 17, 2006)

Thanks a lot for all your help, guys - Just so you know, you are what prevents me from fragging a perfectly good X850XT 

Optical you said your X850XT runs the fan default @ 15%? Mine is a constant 5% :\
Yeah I got a little into the variable fan speed but wondered about any harmful effects. I tried setting it on "Keep the card at 70C" but it was pretty loud and after 65C I didn't hear that the the fan speed was decreasing after achieving a cooler state. There's also that PWM feature that's checked and I didn't want to touch (I know what PWM is and I'm weary to disabling an automated fan control).

I have looked into getting an aftermarket cooler a while ago because my X850XT is by far the loudest of the 6 fans running in my PC. I initially was looking at an ATI Silencer 5 until Optical mentioned the Zalman vf700-cu and I wonder about the performance difference - mainly the difference in heat flow control and disipation. The Zalman doesn't draw the heat from the coils into a fan and out the back as the ATI Silencer 5; the Zalman is very open in design, and I'm just a bit questionable to which might work better.

Again thanks for the sound advice. Optical if you have a suggested fan control variable table to give me a little guideline that'd be awesome. This is what I'll start with:

0 - 30      = 15%
above 30  = 25%
above 40  = 40%
above 50  = 60%
above 60  = 100%

That look fine?


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## trog100 (Feb 17, 2006)

your fan settings look okay.. perhaps alittle too much speed at 40 and 60 with the noisy stock fan..  the artic vga cooler will drop your temps by about 8 to 10 degrees C.. it will also run near silent with the correct fan speed settings.. here is how i have mine set with the artic cooler.. 







u wont get your core clocks much higher your memory clock will benifit the most cos the artic cooler does a good job with that.. atitool is just a tool for adjusting your cards speeds and other things.. it wont make it go any faster than it will go.. it just enables u to take it there.. if u get artifacts or lock-ups that your cards limits.. its not the fault of atitool.. 

if u are after quiteness while browsing and such use the atitool furry dice thing.. when its not running your fans can go slow.. when it starts running your fans should speed up.. maximum coolness at idle isnt important.. your card has two temperature ranges.. cool in 2D mode u need slow fans.. hot in 3D mode u need faster fans.. mine goes from low 30s in 2D mode to low 50s in 3D mode.. there is no in betweens as such.. 

the furry dice thing puts the card in 3D mode and makes it work.. its only in 3D mode u need to worry about heat.. the priority in 2D mode is quietness..

i also have no idea why so many people say use the zalman cooler.. the artic one does a better job..  it exhausts the heat out of the case the zalman dosnt.. it also lets atitool control its fan speeds the zalman one dosnt.. the zalman has nothing going for it except its name.. 

trog


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## OpTicaL (Feb 17, 2006)

You need PWM checked or else your card will make this funny squeaking sound, it's pretty much a design issue of the fan control circuit.

As for the fan variables, once you load anything that requires the use of your video card it will heat up past 55C really fast so any variable you set under 55C is pointless. Just make sure you don't set a variable where the fan has to spin up and spin down consistantly.

First of all found out your maximum temperature by leaving the fan @ 100%. Running the 'scan for artifacts' heats up the gpu pretty fast. My max temp was 72~76C. Once you find out your max temp. set your fan to spin @ 100% once it passes 3-5C below your max temp. For example my max temp was 72C so I would set the fan to spin at 100% once it passes 68C. If I set my fan to spin at 100% once it hits 72C any minor drop in temperature will have your fan constantly spinning up and down, which is very annoying. Btw, fan speed at 75% and 100% makes no difference in temp during my experiment.

Although alot of people, in theory, thinks that using the ATi silencer 5 will push the hot air out the rear vents, in reality hot air is *trapped* in that tiny box waiting for the fan to push it out. That in turn is not as efficient as the zalman where air can dissipate freely and much faster than the silencer but that's just my opinion of efficiency. There are also people that argue that using zalman's open design will increase case temperature but from my 24 hour experiment after I got the zalman, my case temp was only 30C 24hrs later compared to 28C when my cpu and vga is idle. Any amount of intake air from the front of the case to push air to the back of the case is fine.

Just to give you an idea, my x850xt is oc'ed to PE speeds when I had my stock cooler my idle temps where 45/41 and max load was 75/53. After the zalman my idle temps are 32/30 and max load is 58~61/41. These temps where taken after a 24hr test. Zalman has 2 speed modes, silent 1350rpm and normal 2650rpm @ 18.5dB and 28.5dB respectively. I left mine on normal mode (side panel removed) and found the fan to be inaudible unless I put my ear right next to the card and even then I can only hear a tiny 'whoosh' sound that any type of spinning fan makes and with the side panel on it is completely dead silent.

Zalman is not 'brand' like how trog100 puts it, they are proven to be silent and efficient or they wouldn't be popular in the first place.


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## trog100 (Feb 17, 2006)

i think u are wrong about the trapped in the box thing optical.. the plastic box warms up as it would with hot air going thru it and some of this heat will pass into the case.. but the vast majority of the heat generated by the grfx card gets pumped out of the case rear and dosnt heat the case.. 

the zalman just puts the total amount of heat generated by the grfx card  into the case and in affect acts as case heater.. if the grfx card generates 100 watts of heat that heat gets used as case heater with the zalman.. simple as that..

the artic pumps most if not all of that 100 watts out of the case and helps heat the room the PC is in but not the case.. if the zalman feels nice and cool to the touch its only cos its doing a grand job of shifting that card heat into the case.. 

some card heat gets onto the case no matter what.. just a lot less with the artic than with the zalman..

the thing that makes me dislike the zalman thow is the inability to software control its fan speed .. i think its a major downside with the zalman.. they should alter the fans plug to connect up to the cards fan socket and be done with it.. or at least include the option it wouldnt cost much..

being able to run slow fan speeds while in 2D mode and only run fast fan speeds when needed is a must in my books.. in this respect the zalman is a downgrade to the stock cooler.. my zalman 9500 cpu cooler came with the same manual speed adjuster thing.. i just didnt use it and connected straight up the motherboards socket.. with the vga cooler u cant do this without some wireing plug changeing mod..

trog


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## zekrahminator (Feb 17, 2006)

I have to agree with trog on this one...zalman LOOKS like an awesome cooler but it cant compete with the fan blowing over the copper heatsinks and OUT of the case. I have experience with the VGA silencer, the air isnt as trapped as you think lol. heat dissipates evenly across fins, and the air blows over the fins (unlike the stock ATI cooler, which sucks air over the copper, a design I find to be better for home heaters rather then VGA coolers) the zalman takes heat off the card and dissipates it...back into the case. need I say more? lol


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## VyxerioN (Feb 17, 2006)

*Improvements*

Alright I listened to your advice and it helped tons!

I took everything into consideration and here are the results. Optical, I did the test for max temp by your method and found my max temp range was *58-61C*; it was about 80% of the time at 60C the whole time for 40 minutes.

Fan Settings
abv 0C - 14%
abv 42 - 50%
abv 55 - 100%

*@ 629 Memory* 1st artifact seen, abort initiated.
*@ 559 Core* process interupted: Vpu Recovery has taken action due to lack of response to driver commands

Summary
I have my defaults in effect (520/540), but I did save a profile with max core/temp being *547.36/611.18*. I'm still not sure if these are acceptable so I came here first to post these results.

For added reference I managed to run a 3dMark on default and after OC the X850XT test and here are my scores
@ Default VGA (520/540)
*SM2.0 score*: 1049
*CPU score*: 786
*Total Score*: 1966

@ Overclocked VGA (547.36/611.18)
*SM2.0 score*: 1142
*CPU score*: 809
*Total Score*: 2123


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## OpTicaL (Feb 18, 2006)

trog100 said:
			
		

> some card heat gets onto the case no matter what.. just a lot less with the artic than with the zalman..
> 
> the thing that makes me dislike the zalman thow is the inability to software control its fan speed .. i think its a major downside with the zalman.. they should alter the fans plug to connect up to the cards fan socket and be done with it.. or at least include the option it wouldnt cost much..
> 
> trog



I don't see how hot air can get trapped inside the case. Does your case NOT have intake and exhaust fans? If you don't then I would understand why you say hot air is trapped inside the case, but as long as you have exhaust hot air is always pulled out of the case. That is also why it is important a computer case should have efficient air circulation....because no one wants hot air constricted inside the case.

If it is so important to have hot air from heat generating parts of the computer to be "tunnelled" out the rear of the case, then why are 95% of all CPU coolers open design? It's because the designers of CPU coolers decided it was unecessary.



			
				trog100 said:
			
		

> being able to run slow fan speeds while in 2D mode and only run fast fan speeds when needed is a must in my books.. in this respect the zalman is a downgrade to the stock cooler..



Whats the point of controlling fan speed when the zalman fan runs dead silent in the first place? You only want control because the fan is noisy at high speeds but the zalman is silent, dead silent. You only need fan control to control noise at high speeds because the silecner is noisy @ 100% but the Zalman runs at 100%(2650rpm) and it's silent so whats the point of having fan control?

Downgrade? How can you call (max load)75C/53C -> 58C/41C a downgrade?



			
				zekrahminator said:
			
		

> I have to agree with trog on this one...zalman LOOKS like an awesome cooler but it cant compete with the fan blowing over the copper heatsinks and OUT of the case. I have experience with the VGA silencer, the air isnt as trapped as you think lol. heat dissipates evenly across fins, and the air blows over the fins (unlike the stock ATI cooler, which sucks air over the copper, a design I find to be better for home heaters rather then VGA coolers)



So your saying the Zalman isn't blowing on a massive mushroom finned copper heatsink? It's common sense that a open design dissipates heat faster than a constricted design.



			
				zekrahminator said:
			
		

> the zalman takes heat off the card and dissipates it...back into the case. need I say more? lol



Like I said previously, if it is so important to have hot air from heat generating parts of the computer to be "tunnelled" out the rear of the case, then why are 95% of all CPU coolers open design? Why don't designers make a tunnel design instead of having the heat dissipated inside the case? It's because the designers of CPU coolers decided it was unecessary and because every computer case has exhaust. If YOUR computer case doesn't have exhaust then tunnelling would be necessary. R u saying you don't have exhaust fans on your computer?

VyxerioN, if your planning to get a ATi Silencer I would think twice after reading this article: http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=4012&highlight=silencer

So much for adjustable fan speeds if the manufacturer themselves tell you to connect it directly to the PSU. I can see Rev. 3 coming out soon! LOL

So far, I don't see any complains about the Zalman cooler. Zalman just a name? Does Zalman need a Rev. 2? No, Zalman = Reliability, Efficiency and above all Peace and Quiet!


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## VyxerioN (Feb 18, 2006)

*Zalman or Arctic?...*

I can't deny the fact you make Optical: heat does dissipate better over an open design, and as for the silence factor, I'm going to take your word on the Zalman being quieter since I haven't been able to test both.

But the big difference is Arctic doesn't heat the case and directs it out the back, at the same time the heat flow is restricted to the cooler's casing and the rate the fan can push that heat mass.

The Zalman doesn't direct the heat flow in any direction at all, but in theory, works less as it doesn't have a constricted heat mass to "push". Instead, it rather pulls and spreads it. This could also be why it could be quieter.

This is what I think: In all honesty I wanted the Arctic to begin with, then thought about Zalman, then back to the Arctic - gee it looks great and hey warm air comes straight out of my computer...cool.  But I also have a Thermaltake Kandalf case loaded with 4 fans, so heat dispersal through my case isn't too much of an issue (I've got heatsinks on my RAM and Intel coolers on my Xeons). I start to look at the big picture and I'm looking towards the Zalman cooler. I'm not going to bash the Arctic because both coolers have their advantages and disadvantages based on the user's case design; had my case have been a more closed design with less fans then yeah I'd definitely go for the Arctic, but in this case the Zalman's may do just fine...however the Zalman "looks" thick and I hope it gives reasonable clearance (I wouldn't want any of those fins close to a future wireless PCI card I'm soon to install - my X850XT goes in upside-down).

...and that thread I read about the Arctic, well I can't explain what's going wrong but something is and I get discouraged by things that don't work, lol. Now show me a thread that says the Zalman coolers are failing...I couldn't find any. Anyways, I was very surprised to read this thread.

If anybody wishes to comment on the relevance of the use of the Arctic or Zalman and an open or closed case design please feel free. 

Oh and my results, are these acceptable?


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## trog100 (Feb 19, 2006)

"So far, I don't see any complains about the Zalman cooler. Zalman just a name? Does Zalman need a Rev. 2? No, Zalman = Reliability, Efficiency and above all Peace and Quiet!"

i have just made two u just waffled em away with what amounts to nonsense.. and yes it does need a rev 2 to put right the deficiencies it suffers from at the moment.. 

firstly the new intel specifcations do require cpu cooling air to be both drawn in and exhausted from outside the case.. it is based on a tunnel system.. the air is drawn in from the front passes thru the tunnel cools the cpu on the way and is exhausted straight out the back of the case.. the idea again is simple the air coming in is as cool as it can be and it dosnt heat the case any more than it has to whilst cooling the cpu..

so some people do think its important..

as for software controled fans.. my cpu speeds are software controled.. my grfx card speeds are software controled.. my cpu cooler fan is software controled.. my vga cooler fan is software controled.. my case fans are software controled 

the aim is pretty simple keep things as quite as possible whilst maintaining adequate cooling.. note the use of the term adequate as opposed to maximum.. 

nothing needs to run maximum speed all the time whilst browsing or doing none gaming activities.. the slower the hardware runs the less heat it generates and the slower the fans have to run to cool it .. this keeps down noise it also keeps down the amount of dust being drawn into the case.. i would magine it also lengthens the life of all the components and also saves energy..

as for case fans taking away case heat.. of course they do.. but the less things heating up the case the less heat the case fans have to remove.. which mean less case fans or slower less noisy case fans.. the zalman pumps all the card heat into the case fact of life no ifs or buts.. which means u need an equivalent extra case fan to shift it out.. far better to do it the artic way.. let the vga cooler fan shift it out in the first place..

the case has two main heaters.. the gpu and cpu.. the artic gets rid of one of them.. there is no easy to get rid of the other at the moment..

let me put it this way.. if a powerfull grfx card generates 100 watts of heat that is like a powefull light bulb.. imagine sticking one of those in your case.. the artic vga cooler dosnt it shifts the heat out the back.. the zalman makes no attempt at doing this it just pumps that 100 watts into the case..

how many extra case fans does it need to get rid of that 100 watts of heat ???..

in fact if u could do the same with cpu cooler that would be another 100 watts of case heater done away with.. u probably could run without any case fans except the power supply one running slowy.. a decent design power supply and u could get rid of that fan..

how many extra case fans does it need to get rid of that 200 watts of heat with the zalman and the cpu cooler acting as case heaters.. he he he

the artic cooler running software controled is near silent in operation by the way to suggest its  noisy is just not true..

so far in my book its artic 2 zalman 0.. he he he.. i aint anti zalman by the way i do use a zalman 9500 aero flower cpu cooler.. i think the zalman 9500 is a better cpu cooler than the artic freezer pro.. mind u the artic cpu cooler dosnt cost as much.. praps thats another plus for em.. they cost far less than zalmans..

trog

ps.. i aint trying to convince anyone to buy an artic by the way just argueing the toss about which is best.. i like a good arguement.. both of em will cool the grfx card adequately..


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## OpTicaL (Feb 19, 2006)

With all that discussion about cooler A vs cooler B I forgot to reply about your results. A max temp of 58-61 is very good with the stock cooler. My max core and memory speeds is almost identical to yours. Here's a screenshot of my 3DMark06 scores with stock speeds: http://home.att.net/~v_spec/3DMark06_Score.JPG

Here is my score with OC'ed speeds: http://home.att.net/~v_spec/3DMark06_Score_OCed.JPG

As you can see, my CPU sucks (P4 2.6c oc'ed to 2934) therefore limits the full potential of my video card, however I think using 3DMark06 to benchmark performance is not as accurate as using 3DMark05 because '06 was designed for dual-core, dual-video, HDR and SM 3.0 benchmarking. I don't know how many people out there that meets that criteria but I know I don't.

Here's a pic of my x850 xt oc'ed to PE speeds at idle temp: http://home.att.net/~v_spec/GPU_Idle.JPG

Here's a pic of my x850 xt with load: http://home.att.net/~v_spec/GPU_Load.JPG

If you want to know everything about overclocking (from CPU to GPU, mods, etc, etc...) visit: http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com
They are one of the most respected and popular overclocking forums online with over 42,000 members. Anything and everything about overclocking can be found on that site.


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## zekrahminator (Feb 19, 2006)

lol from what I can tell, it looks like its turned into one big Arctic vs. Zalman discussion...I really think its a personal opinion. from what I can tell, if you want to take a small risk with the fan speed changes offered in ATItool/some OCing software, go with Arctic. if you just want something silent that works, go with Zalman. but in my opinion, the Arctic will do a better job, and no, I dont have anything to back it up aside from past experience


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## OpTicaL (Feb 19, 2006)

trog100 said:
			
		

> and yes it does need a rev 2 to put right the deficiencies it suffers from at the moment..



Amen, I have more trust in companies that get it right the *FIRST TIME.* A little FYI, Gigabyte, a third party video card maker has decided to use Zalman VGA coolers on all their new cards since mid december '05 and in the future. I wonder why.....



> firstly the new intel specifcations do require cpu cooling air to be both drawn in and exhausted from outside the case.. it is based on a tunnel system...



Get real, you talk about 'specifications' then why are 95% of all makers of CPU coolers still using a open design? Why hasn't any of the popular brands of CPU coolers taken the first step to make a tunnel system? Those makers aren't dumb, they have their reasons which are pretty much the same as mine. You don't need tunneling if your case has sufficient circulation.



> this keeps down noise it also keeps down the amount of dust being drawn into the case.. i would magine it also lengthens the life of all the components and also saves energy..



Why do I need to keep the noise down when my Zalman fan doesn't make any noise in the first place? Dust? anything with a moving part will attract dust, more dust less dust it's still dust, why does it matter? Lengthens life span? How long are you planning to keep these fans? 3yrs? 5yrs? 7yrs? 10yrs? By that time water cooling will become standard.



> the zalman pumps all the card heat into the case fact of life no ifs or buts.. which means u need an equivalent extra case fan to shift it out.. far better to do it the artic way.. let the vga cooler fan shift it out in the first place..



After a 24hr GPU *AND* CPU stress @ 100% load, my case temp. went up by 2C to 30C from the original 28C. Thats alot of heat being generated by my CPU and GPU at the same time but why did it go up by *ONLY* 2C? Maybe because my case is circulated extremely well? One 120mm fan in front and one 120mm fan in the back running @ 2050rpm, my PSU has 2 fans, one on bottom for suction and one in the rear for exhaust. I have a ZALMAN CNPS7000B-Cu LED for my CPU and a VF700-Cu LED for my GPU. Total fans: 6 Noise: Inaudible to my ears.



> how many extra case fans does it need to get rid of that 100 watts of heat ???..



*ZERO* if your case already has good air circulation.



> u probably could run without any case fans except the power supply one running slowy.. a decent design power supply and u could get rid of that fan..



Impossible, with the current trend CPUs & GPUs making more power and more speed there is no way a PSU can run without a fan because of all the power these parts need. Your imagination is so far away from reality.



> how many extra case fans does it need to get rid of that 200 watts of heat with the zalman and the cpu cooler acting as case heaters.. he he he



Your hypothesis on heat dissipation is dissappointing, it shouldn't even be called a hypothesis more like a wild guess. You base your facts on assumptions more than real world tests results. I would never trust a person's opinions based solely on a unproven theory.



> the artic cooler running software controled is near silent in operation by the way to suggest its  noisy is just not true..



Running the artic cooler against the Zalman at 100% has already been proven that the artic is way way noisier. Tests where conducted using *REAL WORLD TEST* results. Youc an easily find comparisions with a simple google search.

I'm not trying to preach which cooler is better or which one anyone should get, but when I see people making false assumptions about something they haven't tested personally or done any research on they're just asking to be enlightened.


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## OOTay (Feb 19, 2006)

I personally like the artic over the zalman. And i would love to have trog as my lawyer...


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## VyxerioN (Feb 19, 2006)

Wow, this has become a full on assault...seemingly. I kinda feel guily for bringing so much "heat" to the table so to say, lol  

Well Optical, Trog, you both have some very good points but I'm, again, back to being indecisive.

*Why I'd buy the Arctic:* Trog is right about not having to have your cooler running at max during most gameplay and this can compensate for the less silent Arctic. I've seen many wind tunnel cooler designs - I had to do some shopping for Xeon coolers and found that educating as well, and they have a better sense in direction to where to throw the unwanted heat. And of course heat in the case is not good at all.

*Why I'd buy the Zalman:* Optical does make some strong points about most cases being sufficiently ventilated, and the tests to show. Zalman is also quieter, however omnidirectional in how it displaces the heat. And seeing things work for the first time no if ands or buts is good...but everybody is suceptable to a little unforseen bad luck

Now I have one last question, I have a Thermaltake Kandalf, that's all aluminum with 4 case fans:
Intake:    1x 120mm fan
Outake:   1x 120mm fan, 1x 90mm fan, 1x 90mm fan
Diagram of airflow below:
http://thermaltake.com/product/Chassis/fulltower/kandalf/+sha_image/Kandalf_pic/cooling_all.jpg

The question:  Taking into consideration my case and circulation efficiency that I have, which would outright be the better buy?


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## OOTay (Feb 19, 2006)

i have the armor which is a veriation of that case style, i would still go with the artic just becuase it will increase the amount of heat that is moving out of the case more efficiently.


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## VyxerioN (Feb 19, 2006)

Yeah if I take the front inner panel and side doors off the Kandalf it instantly and exactly becomes the Armor.

My one concern with the Zalman is that the cooler will be directly blowing on my PCI wireless card and everything else in every PCI-e and PCI-X slot (my PCI-e x16 is at the top of all my slots).

Also with the Enermax 600W ATX v2.0 I have a LOT of wires (still need to tidy up in there). But hey I saw a pic of this guy who was selling a gfx card with a Zalman installed - I saw pics of his setup and his case was absolutely crammed with wires and 1 randomly placed fan just sitting on the wires.  

But the Kandalf/Armor provides LOTS of room.  I just figure...
more space = less density of heat
which works for the Zalman, BUT...
less space = higher density of heat....now put a fan on it and you've effectively localized the heat and now have a solution for directing it better.

So I see both are equal in their own ways. Some have had installation issues with the Arctic but hey, they back it up with good enough of a warranty to cover it.


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## trog100 (Feb 19, 2006)

OOTay.. i spend a lot of time going against the herd view on forums.. in fact i have spent a lifetime doing this in real life .. he he..  i do have a pretty good line of arguement..

thow sadly where forums are concerned.. the herd majory view very often totally destroys logic.. 

i have made pretty much a %100 case for the artic vga cooler.. if certain folks cant see that its purely cos they dont want to.. which is very often the case..

i hate lawyers but thanks for your compliment.. he he

its still artic 2 zalman 0.. factor in value for money and it would be artic 3 zalman 0..

thow i will add one little interesting snippet.. the latest artic accelero vga cooler or whatever its called dosnt bother to exhaust out of the rear of the case.. it too will pump up to 200 watts of heat straight into the case if used in sli mode.. he he he

and Zalman also make a fatal1ty gaming vga cooler aimed at those who dont care about noise just maximum cooling.. cooler reviewers have lot to answer for when a review is based as they mostly are on maximim cooling only.. 

the bottom line here is that any fool can make a super cooler that sounds like an aircon unit and any manufacturer that goes for the sensible compromise between adequate cooling and quite operation dosnt sell many products.. 

which leads us back to why the artic cooler fan can be noisy if run flat out.. they have to do this so as they can sell their coolers to kiddy overclockers .. in truth only a fool would run one flat out.. cos it isnt ever nessesary.. the fact the fan goes too fast for silent operation is only to satisfy cooler reviewers that go for maximum cooling and bugger the noise.. as do a lot of kiddy overclockers which do make up a large percentage of the market.. such people usually run a dozen case fans and are proud of it.. in fact the more have they the better.. he he.. which again leads us back to exhausting heat out of the case directly not being on the cooler makers high priority list any more..

trog

ps.. and optycal would probably make a better lawyer than me.. he has presented a good case even thow his argument is mostly nonsense.. thats the mark of really good lawyer.. he he..


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## OpTicaL (Feb 20, 2006)

It's funny how trog proclaims he has a 100% case when he has not provided a spec of evidence to prove the Artic is a better choice over the Zalman. False assumptions, unproven theories, and just blind faith in your cooler will not make a case, let alone an arguement  

You would have a case probably 10%, but definitely not 100% LOL. So far I have proved every false statement you made about the Zalman wrong. I can provide concrete evidence and you cannot. You can't even provide pictures of atitools to show ur idle and load temps with your artic!

It's ironic how my book tells me it's Zalman 3 and artic 0 (#1 Zalman is quieter, #2 cools better, and #3 works with ATi *AND* Nvidia across a massive line of cards. Artic doesn't work with Nvidia, period, ATi cards before 9600 and 90% of all cards on the market today; artic will be useless if you upgrade in the future because of it's limited compatibility. Flexibility, that makes Zalman 4 and artic 0 doesn't it?



> and Zalman also make a fatal1ty gaming vga cooler aimed at those who dont care about noise just maximum cooling.. cooler reviewers have lot to answer for when a review is based as they mostly are on maximim cooling only..


Fatal1ty is just a waste of money, it's just a repainted vf700 with a bigger fan and fins and every overclocker knows that. I don't know why you brought up such nonsense that has no relation to the topic.

Truth in fact, you can give praise to the artic all you want. Overclockers and 3rd party (Gigabyte) VGA companies all perfer the Zalman over the Artic. All overclocking forums online give praise to the Zalman and not the Artic. Newegg has 259 user reviews for the Zalman VF700-CU while the Artic only has 26. Even Zalman's 2/3 aluminum 1/3 copper hybrid VF700-ALCU has more user reponses(74) than the Artic.  

PS: *I just found out the artic doesn't work on 80% of all ATi built and 3rd party 9600s which artic says it supports! How's that for a reliable company? LOL*

Just read the reviews on Newegg! hahaha
I couldn't find a review on the Zalman lower than 4 stars for a 100 reviews! With the Artic? After the first 3 reviews it already has a *ONE* star rating!!!

trog100, if you really want to make a case you can at least try *ONE* very simple thing: *show me the evidence!* Instead giving a bunch of _if this_ and _if that_ from *your own* personal views.

In the end it's up to you VyxerioN to choose which cooler you want because it's your money and your card. Personally, I wouldn't want to waste money on a cheaper cooler which so many negative reviews and responses. Don't take my word for it, just look at the facts! Like the old saying goes, you get what you pay for!


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## VyxerioN (Feb 20, 2006)

I feel like a thrown around ragdoll to be quite frank.  

I don't have much more to say either, except everytime I come back here I see another point in defense.

*scratches his head*
I have a chance to get a Zalman vf-700cu for $20 and the Artic for $50...I'm going with the Zalman. 

Sorry trog but I can't back out on a deal like this. Optical, I hope you're right about this, lol.
But I'm sure you are; I haven't even checked out Newegg.

Woah I have mine OC'ed at 546/613 on stock cooler...is that ok?
One more question, in F.E.A.R. I'm running at max quality but I get lag spikes in game [especially in areas before combat and savepoints], what fixes that (besides reducing quality)? raising max mem?


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## OpTicaL (Feb 20, 2006)

VyxerioN said:
			
		

> I have a chance to get a Zalman vf-700cu for $20 and the Artic for $50...I'm going with the Zalman.
> 
> Sorry trog but I can't back out on a deal like this. Optical, I hope you're right about this, lol.
> But I'm sure you are; I haven't even checked out Newegg.
> ...



$20 for the copper Zalman is a extremely good deal, I got mine for $28.50 out the door at a local computer store. Keeping in mind Newegg has the copper one for $29.99+$5.99 shipping so $20 is a steal. I don't know how the Artic can go for $50 when Newegg has it listed for $17.99, $12 cheaper than the Zalman.

546/613 is a very high oc with stock cooler, have you run the artifact scan to make sure it's stable at that speed? I have F.E.A.R and it's known to cause problems being run at max settings in addition I can't tell a difference in graphical appearance running it at max settings anyway.

If you want to get more toubleshooting info on F.E.A.R you might want to check out their own support forums.


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## trog100 (Feb 20, 2006)

fear loads its new textures in a different way than most games.. plus they are very big at the higher levels.. that lag is when its doing it.. it usuall picks places like going up some stairs of just before u go thru door to do it.. but its just the down side to super big texure sizes.. games used to pause and a load bunch then run to the next pause.. fear just tries to do it as it goes along.. 

i dont think there is any answer to it.. u have to live with it..

as for those coolers both companies produce good products..  both will cool your grfx card adequately and i feel sorry for anyone that is anal enough to have to agonize over which one to buy.. he he

a pic just for opitcal..






trog


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## KennyT772 (Feb 20, 2006)

well with all this concerned there are things to do that forcably move air out of your system.
take this pic into your perspective.



i recently upgraded from a single to dual fan design and it works great. theres a 7c difference accross the board when its on. i just took a few fans i had and spliced them together. i also took the stronger of the 2 and put it on the end. it effectivly channles the air between my video card, mobo, and soundcard. all of my pci slot covers are open to let the air out. now it may not be as drastic as what the artic silencer does but it could make the zalman perform better and quieter depending on the fans used.


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## trog100 (Feb 21, 2006)

i have three small slow running case fans and the power supply one running very slow blowing out.. so thats three blowing in two on the rear and one on the side.. all running very quiet.. the artic blows out out course.. it works better than my old XP system with about six fans all running flat out sounding an aircon unit..

my case runs about 1.5c over room ambient..  praps more luck than judgement i dunno.. and the artic blowing out might help but i dont know by how much.. all i know is the whole lot runs cooler than my old XP system with a fraction of the noise.. ???

and after about five weeks of being together u can see why i worry about dust.. he he







trog


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## VyxerioN (Feb 21, 2006)

Yeah I thought that the Artic was way high:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1576907&CatId=498

The one I'm getting is the AlCu, but slightly used - worth it? ($15-20)

Wow thanks for all the pics, they really help me give me an idea of what to expect (Optical I've been folllowing your settings carefully). Oh, and by the way I brought my Mem and Core down just for now till I get a better cooler. Yeah, I scanned for artifacts with stock cooler @ 546/613 and no problems whatsoever.

Yeah I figured as much on FEAR how it loads, it just bugs me because I go in to rush and hit a lag spike then I'm face to face with 3 enemies and have to slam my slo-mo button just to compensate for the lag that threw me in the open, lol

I'd really like to show you guys the custom mods I did to my case and such but the filesize is hellabig and I'm hella-lazy at the moment - plus right now I have just 1 Xeon 2.8GHz/800fsb, which I recently found out to be an engineering sample (no EM64T or HT:shadedshu ) which I'm not incredibly happy/proud about, but I did get it for free  

Well I think I'm going to tune down the settings in FEAR, besides, who needs to visually identify the cracks in people's lips and lashes on their eyes anyways? 

One more question: what's the best fancontrol software to use? 
I have 3 fans monitored in my BIOS (excluding my cpu cooler), 120mm intake, 120mm exhaust and a 90mm exhaust on my PSU. I have just one more spot available for a fan connector I think I'll reserve for the vf700.


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## trog100 (Feb 21, 2006)

the zalman comes with molex connector.. unless u modify the connector u wont be able to software control it.. which takes us back to a prior arguement.. he he he

trog


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## OOTay (Feb 22, 2006)

hey trog i was just wondering why you have your zalman facing upword? just for better heat dissipation?


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## OpTicaL (Feb 23, 2006)

OOTay said:
			
		

> hey trog i was just wondering why you have your zalman facing upword? just for better heat dissipation?



The Zalman facing upward/downward is because of the motherboard's design (i could be wrong) because the the CNPS7000 I have is right side up (the sticker) while the one in my friend's machine is upside down. Of course it would be best if the fan was facing towards the rear of the case then all the air would blow right out.

Thanks for the pic trog but that pic doesn't show the max temperature your card an achieve. My pic shows me running 'scan for artifacts' for 10mins.



			
				VyxerioN said:
			
		

> The one I'm getting is the AlCu, but slightly used - worth it? ($15-20)
> 
> Yeah, I scanned for artifacts with stock cooler @ 546/613 and no problems whatsoever.



Used is fine but try to get new if possible, the price margin isn't that big. Just make sure to check for scratches at the base where it goes in contact with the gpu, bent fins and other cosmetic damages.

613 memory is really good OC on your card. Mine goes unstable once I pass 607 and dies out (monitor shuts off) at 615.


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## VyxerioN (Mar 2, 2006)

*New Problems - Overheat*

Alright, maybe this tool is taking it out on my card but some bad things I've noticed...

1) My idle temp is now 2 - 4C higher (was 35-37, is now a steady 40)  (max temp remains the same)
2) My marks in 3DMark06 have dropped about 70pts on my card 

I dropped my OC settings to 522/576
My fan settings are:

abv 0 - 14
abv 47 - 55
abv 57 - 100

Am I doing something wrong? Is my card dying?
Also one more thing, is that I have ATItool load every startup on the specified saved profile.  Is that good?


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## noichigo (Mar 2, 2006)

*trying to get most of X850XT*

Hi all,

I have just began to check limits of Sapphire X850XT I bought. I read this toppic AFTER I got my Ati Silencer 5 for it - and as well after reading this AS5 got connected directly to 12V power cables, and the yellow cable is plugged to the mobo's "system fan 2" so I can check the fan speed (but I cannot change it) its about 2500 rpms all the time (and it's not very loud - there are 3 12x12cm and one 8x8 fans in the case so one more on the GPU... ) BUT original ATI fan was terrible...


About my test:

Ati Tool max mem and gpu test crashed (without any artifacts) at gpu 612 and mem 648 MHz, temperature (with Ati Silencer at full throtle all the time) was 74-75.

Right now I'm testing if it will be stable for my card to run @ 590/620 (I know, I know - I'm crazy ) and I will also make 3DMark benchmarks. The temperature is 73-74 with those settings and it wors stable for about 20 min now. (For final OC I think I will try to get to 68-70 degrees).

Then I think it will be fun to make those test using CCC (as someone on the forum wrote that he can get better benchmarks with the same OC using CCC rather then Ati Tool).

All the best to you, going back to tests  (next stop will be CPU OCing - Athlon X2 3800+ - hope it will be fun as well 

noichigo


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## OpTicaL (Mar 3, 2006)

VyxerioN said:
			
		

> Alright, maybe this tool is taking it out on my card but some bad things I've noticed...
> 
> 1) My idle temp is now 2 - 4C higher (was 35-37, is now a steady 40)  (max temp remains the same)
> 2) My marks in 3DMark06 have dropped about 70pts on my card
> ...



Are you still using the stock cooler? It's normal that your card is around 40~43C on idle with OC. Mine was 43/41 idle when I oc'ed with my stock cooler. Honestly all you need to do is OC to PE speeds and thats good enough already. Anything higher is just for benchmarking and your not going to notice any difference in gaming performance.

In the end numbers don't matter, it's how well the game plays.


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## VyxerioN (Mar 3, 2006)

OpTicaL said:
			
		

> Honestly all you need to do is OC to PE speeds and thats good enough already




Still using stock (loud-ass) cooler. but yeah, what are the freqs for PE speeds?
Man I need a cooler upgrade! It's hard to indiscriminately play games at 2am with low volume


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## zekrahminator (Mar 3, 2006)

PE speeds are 540/590 . Stock cooler may be loud, but it can be used. set fan speeds to about 43% under load (remember to check to box "dont change PVM frequency...it wont damage your card, but it will silence it just a bit) and 5% idle...that should fix it. Under load is defined as 40*C or higher...my temps are 32*C idle no more then 60*C under load (generally between 50 and 60*C, depending on the game)


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## VyxerioN (Mar 4, 2006)

zekrahminator said:
			
		

> PE speeds are 540/590 . Stock cooler may be loud, but it can be used. set fan speeds to about 43% under load (remember to check to box "dont change PVM frequency...it wont damage your card, but it will silence it just a bit) and 5% idle...that should fix it. Under load is defined as 40*C or higher...my temps are 32*C idle no more then 60*C under load (generally between 50 and 60*C, depending on the game)



Thanks a LOT for the handy tip!
So, for [abv 47C] I'll have it set to 47% rather than 55%.
I also realize this is the first time my GPU has ever been "pushed"; also playing more demanding games like FEAR at high settings, and benchmarking. I can't emphasize how becomingly apparent it is that I need a cooling solution, lol.

Still trying to get an affordable VF700 (maybe with an LED would be another nice accent) - I decided not to get the used cooler offer; I mean where am I going to get reapplicable adhesive pads for the ram heatsinks?

Anyways, this has been nothing short of an educating and very fun experience 
I want to thank all for the posts and help!! I'm recommending this forum to all local enthusiasts


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## noichigo (Mar 4, 2006)

I'm just finishing Sapphire X850XT testing with following settings:

520|540
540|590
550|590
560|590
570|600
590|600

The highest OC went through the 2 hour artifact scan and another 1 hour 3d test without any errors.
I have also got to 624 MHz GPU STABLE with the Catalyst Control Center (mem 548) AND ... it scored almost same as 590|600 (so OCing memory IS important too), soon (in about 2 hours) I will post results all above settings with:

1. bundled drivers + ATI Tool
2. Catalyst 6.2 drivers + CCC
3. Catalyst 6.2 drivers + ATI Tool

Hope you will like it 

btw - I took out my card and reassembled Arctic Silencer 5 to get out the thermal paste out and gave it very thin film of arctic silver 5 - temp went down 4-5 degrees - now load with ati tool @ 590 MHz GPU gives it 70 degrees.

all the best
noichigo


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## zekrahminator (Mar 5, 2006)

you want reaplliable GPU RAMsinks? Thermaltake has the answer for you! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835116012 just remember to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL how you mount them, and mount them before seating the main cooler. you will COOK your graphics memory if you're not careful with putting them on.


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## Ketxxx (Mar 5, 2006)

VyxerioN said:
			
		

> First of all I have a PowerColor ATI Radeon X850XT PCI-E videocard.
> 
> Now, I've downloaded this "seemingly" wonderful tool but have found absolutely no or VERY little results.
> 
> ...



well its quite simple really, DONT play with anything your not 100% sure about! but if you insist on attempting things still, the first step should always be to at very least take your stock cooler off, clean off the cheap thermal crap used and apply some arctic silver ceramique and put the cooler back on.

in ati tool, start with the core, bumping it in 15MHz steps, applying and testing with "scan for artifacts" option, when yellow bits start to appear, back off 5mhz at a time until they go away, same procedure applies when ocing the mem.


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## zekrahminator (Mar 5, 2006)

sadly, its like that with ALL his games. these past 4 pages are all about attempts to get the poor guy's card working. one more thing...do you have the 2-slot cooler on your X850XT or the 1 slot cooler? both are loud, but the 1 slot cooler I know nothing about, and setting your fan speeds to 43% under load could nuke your card because I dont know how that cooler performs. You dont rush into battle with a plan you used from a completely different battle lol.


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## noichigo (Mar 5, 2006)

*OCing results before and afters Catalyst 6.2*

Hi all,

these are my results for X850XT tested with 3DMark 05 Free Edition

before installing Catalyst 6.2 (using only bundled drivers), OCed with ATI Tool .024 beta 13

	NORM 520|540: 5866
	OC 540|590:     6172	
	OC 560|590:     6315
	OC 570|600:     6415
	OC 590|600:     6580

I didnt know then that I wont be able to go up to 600 MHz for memory using Catalyst Control Centre (CCC), next bencharks are made for mem @ 590 MHz max

after instaling C6.2, OCing with CCC:

	CC6.2 NORM:	6060
	CCC 540|590:	6367
	CCC 560|590:	6497
	CCC 570|590:	6546
	CCC 580|590:	6614
	CCC 590|590:	6690
	CCC 624|548:	6640 (this is automatic setting of CCC for max OC)


after installing C6.2 but OCing with ATI Tool:

	ATI CC6.2 NORM:		6031
	ATI CC6.2 540|590:	6347
	ATI CC6.2 560|590:	6472
	ATI CC6.2 570|590:	6542
	ATI CC6.2 580|590:	6609
	ATI CC6.2 590|590:	6667

As these results are rather similar using CCC and Ati Tool so it's most about the drivers up to date.

"That's all folks"  hope it can be helpful to someone :

all the best
noichigo


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## VyxerioN (Mar 5, 2006)

*Stepping forward - Thermal paste*



			
				zekrahminator said:
			
		

> do you have the 2-slot cooler on your X850XT or the 1 slot cooler? both are loud, but the 1 slot cooler I know nothing about, and setting your fan speeds to 43% under load could nuke your card because I dont know how that cooler performs. You dont rush into battle with a plan you used from a completely different battle lol.



Right, I have the 2-slot cooler. It's big, it's loud and yeah I'm loosing 1 PCI-X (64-bit) slot because of it .  A while ago I managed to buy this thermal paste off eBay, and it claims to be better than arctic silver and ceramique. I don't have it with me but I can tell you it's a very light grey compund, not metallic. I'm really weary about taking the X850XT apart and applying the compound (like how thick to apply it, etc).

Here's a link to directly where I got it:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/SUPERCOOLING-CPU...854594202QQcategoryZ80144QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Sorry, I meant to mention any reference I've provided in regards to 3dMark is related to the newest version 3dMark 06 - The marking system is VERY different I see now.

I am 100% about everything now, so the situation has changed dramatically since when I first came to this forum and made my initial post.

...maybe today I'll take the stock cooler off and apply the new paste after I get one more reply on proper ways to apply it, hehe. I mean if it will really make a difference, then sure I'll do it without minding I'll have to do it yet again when I get a new cooler. I have to put in a wireless PCI card today anyways


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## trog100 (Mar 5, 2006)

thermal paste isnt a very good heat conductor.. not as good as direct contact between the two parts u which to pass heat thru.. its job is just to allow for air gaps (air being an even worse conductor) that are present due to uneven or machine finished surfaces..

basically u dont want to apply any more of the stuff than u have to.. apply a very small amount.. press the two surfaces together.. see if a thin smear of paste covers the two surfaces.. try doing it again till it dosnt quite cover the two surfaces.. 

just enough but not too much.. the thicker the paste the harder it is to not put too much on.. it should just be enough to fill any air gaps.. but no more..

oh and use 2005 for card scores.. it means more to more folks than the other piece of rubbish..

trog

ps.. and its nice to see i am okay with old cat 5.11 no ccc drivers.. my X850 beats all those scores at 540/600..


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## zekrahminator (Mar 6, 2006)

I think its hilarious how us overclockers treat our systems...we push our systems to their limits, go past a bit and really hope there wasn't any permanent damage. we promise ourselves that we won't overclock again...and then we fix the problem. our response? "how high can I push it THIS time?"


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## VyxerioN (Mar 6, 2006)

*Pasted*

Alright so I used some of that paste.
- both surfaces scrubbed of existent thermal grease
- new thermal grease applied
- VGA card reassembled

Here are the results:
*The Good*
On the initial run (before running scan for artifacts) I found my idle temp was actually 5-6C cooler!

*The Bad*
After running "Scan For Artifacts" I found my max temp to be a whopping 7C hotter!!! 

*The Ugly*
My idle temp now sits at an indifferent 39C (maybe 1-2C cooler). So I assume I didn't use enough thermal paste or I'm not too sure at all. I did apply a thin coat...quite thin but I saw no light between the contacts

....soooooo what do you guys think? Am I going to have to reapply a thicker coat?


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## zekrahminator (Mar 6, 2006)

no, that means that either that cooler is a crock or that thermal paste is a fraud lol. hey, at least its not crashing...oh, and I need to tell you my X850XT OC...594/555 BY ATI DRIVERS


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## VyxerioN (Mar 6, 2006)

I think I'll take it apart and redo it

Maybe I wound the retention screws a little too tight

But wicked thanks for the advice on the cooler at 43%...it sounds nicer


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## trog100 (Mar 6, 2006)

"I think I'll take it apart and redo it"

yes.. but thats the problem with the super efficient just enough.. its a lot harder to arrive at than the not so efficient far too much.. he he he..

the manufactuers tend to err on the too much side.. its the safer bet.. which is where the gain comes from by doing it yourself.. have several goes if u have to.. 

trog


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## VyxerioN (Mar 7, 2006)

Alright I reapplied the compound, this time a little thicker and I didn't screw the retention screws in so tightly onto the GPU.

EXACT same results.

I'm absolutely furious and have sent an email to the seller of this compound, "demanding" a full refund. (however it did bring my idle temps down...whoopty-doo)

I don't think it'll get any better than this so I have no choice but to get a VF700 asap!

Since my max temps now are around 68~69C, would you recommend running any of my high-demand games like FEAR and the such? I thought I may lay off those games and stick with just CounterStrike in the meantime.


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## trog100 (Mar 7, 2006)

yes those temps wont do any harm at all.. buy a better cooler if it makes u happy.. but u will be okay till u get it.. he he he

70c really isnt to hot for a grfx card.. some come passive cooled and run up to 90c.. and with the makers blessing.. 

trog


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## zekrahminator (Mar 7, 2006)

...whats so bad about the ATIsilencer?  jk either cooler will do fine. and the whole "air is trapped because the plastic cooler box gets hot" thing...load of crap. the heatsink radiates, and that warms up the rest of the cooler. obvious solution for tough problems lol


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## zekrahminator (Mar 8, 2006)

something I should add to my "run fan at 43%" post...you MIGHT be able to get away with the fan running at 32%, at that level it sounds like a normal PC


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## KennyT772 (Mar 8, 2006)

ok dude u put a little on and smooth it out. then u put the heatsink on and move it around a bit to smooth it out further. then you let it sit. as the compound thickens heat transfer increases so dont bitch at artic cooling b/c the AS5 doesnt give immidiet results. if i remember correctly it takes 200 heat cycles (load/idle/load) to fully setup the tim. its like 50 for ceramique. just chill and give it time..


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## VyxerioN (Mar 13, 2006)

*SpectraCool replies to my complaint*

Alright, as it may or may not be aware to the subscribers to this thread, I've been having some issues with this new cooling compound on eBay.

It lowered my idle temps but allowed me to reach higher temps under max load..not good.
So I tried reapplying and also contacting the maker at the same time.

I reported to him all my specs and methods and this was his conclusion:

_Hi Tom, the best information I can find regarding the heat sensor for the GPU is that it is located in conjunction with the fan. This conclusion is supported by the fact that your bios does not report the temperature. So your perceived increase in heat is a phenomenon that occurs when for example the heat sensor is on the CPU heat sink and with increased thermal transfer it reports a higher temperature. If the sensor were located directly on the GPU then you would see a lower temperature, as do the users of SPECTRA COOL when their CPU sensor is located below the CPU. If you still prefer a refund just return the remaining portion to me and I’ll take care of seeing you get even the S&H refunded. _

So AtiTool detects GPU temps by nature of phenomenon? I wantyed to post this for you guys to get back on the credibility of this statement.


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## zekrahminator (Mar 13, 2006)

pffft I dunno  . I still think that you should just do yourself a favor and get ATISilencer5 lol


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## VyxerioN (Mar 19, 2006)

Well I went out and got a VF700-Cu, store-bought.

Just one question, about the connector...
with the 3-pin connector, couldn't just have it connected to a 3-pin header on my mobo for heat monitoring, rather than using the molex adapter?

I mean on my mobo header it's 12V and I intend to run the VF700 at Normal Mode anyways (since I see the only point in using the molex adapter is for the 5V conversion for Silent Mode)


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## Azn Tr14dZ (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, that's fine if you want to monitor your temps and speed and such with the Zalman VF700-Cu/LED.  I have the same cooler on my X800 XL and it's great but I use the included fan headers 'cause I don't really care much about speed controling.  I also use the other 3 12v and (2)5v fan header for extra fans in my comp.  I don't know why people don't like the Zalman just because it doesn't exhaust air from the case.  People should have good airflow in their systems in the first place that they don't have to worry about exhausting air. And as I do in all my posts, I have to put this smiley-


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## VyxerioN (Mar 19, 2006)

*Disappointed *

Alright, so I installed the cooler and the results are hardly great at all.

The sound is COMPLETELY eliminated and I am VERY impressed with the fact that I've reduced 60% of my computer noise...

...but the performance isn't extremely wonderful at all.
Under my max load and idle (OC'd at PE speeds 540/590) I found the VF700 brought the GPU down by a  measly 3C :shadedshu 

Optical, could you provide me with some good fan settings suggestions for the VF700?

Just to give you an idea of BEFORE/AFTER:

BEFORE (Stock Cooler)
Idle Temps: 36C/37C
Maxload Temps (@100% fan speed): 68C/54C

AFTER (VF700 Cooler)
Idle Temps: 35C/36C
Max Load Temps (@100% fan speed): 65C/46C

I have the 3-pin connector in my mobo fan header, supplying 12V (running the VF700 in Normal Mode)

Well sad to say but I am thoroughly disappointed in the results. I don't know if Zalman is to blame but they do guarantee 7-10C lower on my GPU and 10-15C lower on my RAM. If you ask me this was a waste of $40!!


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## zekrahminator (Mar 20, 2006)

$40 shut your card up pretty good...at least you have that lol. See what trog and I were telling you? ATISilencer5 all the way . If you can get a refund, get it, and then Azn will give you a link on zipzoomandfly for ATIsilencer5.


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## Frogger (Mar 20, 2006)

and how many hours will it take the thermal paste to 'burn in'  ?25 hours??? 50 hours . loop something and let it get Warm  then let it cool{idle}  and again  and again  then test temps  see if you get lower


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## Azn Tr14dZ (Mar 20, 2006)

zekrahminator said:
			
		

> $40 shut your card up pretty good...at least you have that lol. See what trog and I were telling you? ATISilencer5 all the way . If you can get a refund, get it, and then Azn will give you a link on zipzoomandfly for ATIsilencer5.


Sorry for pointing you on the Zalman direction.   Mine works fairly great though, but maybe it's because I live in Arizona and it's really hot so Zalman helped cool mine fairly well.  If you do get a refund and decide to get Arctic Cooling ATI Silencer 5 Rev. 2 heres the link that's $7 cheaper than newegg-http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=316413  You should get your refund, if you don't, then that's like a


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## VyxerioN (Mar 20, 2006)

Hey thanks a lot guys for all the support.

Yeah, the whole thing has left me utterly depressed all evening - I appreciate the closure.

I figure I'll let it sit for 3 days, and if I don't see any improvement then I have 2 options:

1. Refund
2. Use the supplied thermal grease.

Yeah I used that SpectraCool BS again, thinking maybe the guy was right in his statement of thermal sensor placement and the "phenomenom" behind it

As it stands I saw better results when I had my stock cooler in with stock thermal grease, and I didn't touch anything. But thermal grease does take some time to burn in (even now ATItool is reporting 34C/33C...maybe in 3 days it'll be 30 or 29, lol)  so I'll let it stay for a while and then I'll try the Zalman grease...if that doesn't work, I'm getting a refund and writing Zalman a formal letter on the guarantees of their product.

...I don't want that to happen though


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## Frogger (Mar 20, 2006)

used as5 on my 700-cu 850 pro 564/588      27idle/55fullload  toke 3-4 days to set  stock cooler ran.                              500/500      34  /  65


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## VyxerioN (Mar 20, 2006)

Thanks for the reference, Frogger.

What I'm gonna do is play some Doom3 (might as well beat it again) and hopefully I'll see some better results, hehe

Somebody really should check this site out; here's a URL to the manufacturer of the thermal compound I'm using:

http://www.spectracool.com/

Could I be noob enough to manage buying an incompatible compound? lol


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## zekrahminator (Mar 20, 2006)

more like "designed around older products" then "incompatible"...there is no such thing as incompatible thermal paste unless you're using maple syrup . I appreciate you using all-American paste, but...c'mon, that stuff's rated to work on OCing Pentium 2's, 3's, and P4 Northwoods. Go search for Arctic Cooling MX1. THAT stuff good.


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## VyxerioN (Mar 20, 2006)

lol...and I'm a Canadian putting my trust and money into all American product...sure why not?

Done and done.
I bought some OCZ Arctic Silver 5+ compound and will immediately use it today.
Results will be posted.

I viewed something hilarious with this guy who tested thermal compounds. And it's been determined toothpaste, yes toothpaste, is an amazing compound (maybe because of it's minty freshness).

Still entirely unsafe to use due to the fact that the toothpaste would dry up in maybe 1 or 2 heat phases, it ranked cooler than some store-bought polysynthetic compounds.

Anyways, thought you guys might get a laugh out of that


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## Frogger (Mar 21, 2006)

AND  it's still 10 green backs a tube  Hell can get tube as5 for 8


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## VyxerioN (Mar 21, 2006)

**meh**

Yeah that's ridiculous to pay for grease made for p2,p3, etc
I spent $7 on some OCZ AS5+

Ok really bad news now....

My card blew up.  the power cord to the VF700 got caught up in the fan blades, bending my mobo fan headers and ripping the videocard partially out it's slot!!!...J/K 

No seriously, I used the OCZ AS5+ and it's giving 1C higher temp!
*sigh*
Whatever...you know what? I'm just going to shut up and post back in 3-5 days to give the "proper" results.

Until then I'm reading "Patience for Dummies 101"


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## zekrahminator (Mar 21, 2006)

in my opinion you're swapping out thermal pastes too often. Those temps are really pretty good for X850XT, so I don't see why you're worrying so much...just wait a few days, play a few games. You're getting all worked up about it lol. And after a few days have gone by, if you're still not happy with the results, refund that VF-700 and get yourself ATIsilencer5.


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## trog100 (Mar 21, 2006)

thermal paste is only there to fill any air-gaps causes by uneven or badly finished surfaces..

used in the correct quanities (not a bloody great thick thermal pad) there aint enough there to make any noticable difference no matter what make u use..

its not magic stuff despite all the silly hype.. and its more about how its applied than what type is applied.. the best heat transfer is from direct surface to surface contact between the two parts..  so two perfectly flat parts would be better with no thermal paste..

just enough to fill any air gaps is the way.. and assuming the two mating surfaces are even vaguely flat that shouldnt require much at all..

any thermal paste that is preventing the two mating surfaces from actually touching is of negative value..  which comes back to why the oem type pads aint very good.. they do grand job of keeping the two mating surfaces apart.. he he

trog


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## Frogger (Mar 21, 2006)

VyxerioN said:
			
		

> My card blew up.  the power cord to the VF700 got caught up in the fan blades, bending my mobo fan headers and ripping the videocard partially out it's slot!!!...J/K
> Until then I'm reading "Patience for Dummies 101"



    
 Take this with a grain of salt    CABLE MANAGEMENT 101  might help to


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## zekrahminator (Mar 22, 2006)

so yeah its been a couple days...anything change? lol


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## earthbound misfit (Mar 22, 2006)

Hi guys, New to forums

I just now installed my Sapphire X850XT. I downloaded ati tool and wanted to control the fan speeds because most of the reviews at newegg on this card had HEAT as a con and said to get this program to change the fan speeds.  I have been tinkering with it but I realized quickly that I have no clue what I am doing.

First off, I don't plan on OCing at all, just leaving it at stock. But I am concern about overheating. I plan on using the stock cooler too.

So I guess I should ask: Whats a decent, safe idle heat? Right at this moment its idle and at 40c. Is that ok?  What is a decent, safe playing heat?...what temp should I try to keep it at when playing? Say it get up to 72c, is this ok? 

By just using stock speeds and stock fan, how should I set up the fan control speeds vs temp?

I read this whole thread and it lost me about page 2 and a half 

Thanks for any help!


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## trog100 (Mar 22, 2006)

idle temps dont really matter that much.. its the 3D cooking mode that matters.. 

run the furry dice thing in atitool and watch you card heat up.. set the fans to run at max speed say above 55C.. 

switch the furry dice thing off and watch your card cool down.. it depends on your need for quieter running with the dice off. but the idea is to slow your fans down for the dice off and have em come full on as the card heats up much over 50C with the dice on.. 

there is no point whatsoever in having the fan screaming in idle or 2D mode.. 

trog


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## earthbound misfit (Mar 22, 2006)

thanks trog. I have the idle set at 10% and the temp stays steady at 40c. then at 50c I have the fan speed at 50% and at 65c at 75%. anything over 70 is set at 100%. Hope this is ok.

I put in Morrowind to test the card out and it only took like 2 minutes of play before I started hearing the fan rev up to speed. I played for 10 more mins and exited out and my temps were at 73c. Is this a safe operating temp?

Regards,
Earth


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## Antikristuseke (Mar 22, 2006)

zekrahminator said:
			
		

> 540/600are very respectable clocks on an X850XT with stock cooler...if you want to bring them up higher, I suggest you get an ATI silencer 5 (its not as scary as it look). If you want to find your max stable overclock WITHOUT changing your cooler, do the following...



Guess i got really lucky with my card then, 570/620 are 24/7 clocks on my asus made x850xt with stock cooling and the highest benchstable is 586/636.
But anyway i didnt use the find max feature since that just crashed my computer and found my max clocks with some good ole trial and error.


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## zekrahminator (Mar 22, 2006)

if you're bothered by noise, set fan to 32% under load, and 43% if you start getting alarmed/have lockup or artifact issues. X850XT stock cooler is a better exhaust fan then a VGA cooler, but it still gets the job done. Just FYI, X850XT official max temp according to ATI is 105*C, so just make sure it doesn't get there and you'll be fine. My card hasn't gotten above 60*C yet


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## Frogger (Mar 22, 2006)

earthbound misfit said:
			
		

> thanks trog. I have the idle set at 10% and the temp stays steady at 40c. then at 50c I have the fan speed at 50% and at 65c at 75%. anything over 70 is set at 100%. Hope this is ok.
> 
> I put in Morrowind to test the card out and it only took like 2 minutes of play before I started hearing the fan rev up to speed. I played for 10 more mins and exited out and my temps were at 73c. Is this a safe operating temp?
> 
> ...




move it to 100% at 65 c card should then stay below 70c


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## Azn Tr14dZ (Mar 23, 2006)

73 degrees isn't too bad but still a bit too high if you ask me.  Try to get an Arctic Cooling or Zalman aftermarket cooler.  It'll still run at 73 but try to get it as low as possible until you get a new cooler.


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## earthbound misfit (Mar 23, 2006)

OK I got it set at 65*C = 100%. I'll see if this keeps it cool  

thanks for the help guys!

Regards,
Earth


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## trog100 (Mar 23, 2006)

your card has two basic tempts.. low when it isnt doing anything in 2d mode and hot when its working hard in 3d mode.. there can be a rapid 20 c rise from one to the other.. as long as the fan is coming in somewhere between 60 and 70c.. its working okay.. 70c isnt really high.. 

fitting an artic cooler will make the fan run very quite and keep the temps down to between 50 and 60c with an overclocked card.. some of these cards with passive cooling run in the 90s so 70-sh isnt high really.. the other advantage is the artic cooler exhausts card heat out of the back of the case helping the case stay cooler..

trog


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## VyxerioN (Mar 23, 2006)

I think by now nothing is really going to change. my idle/max is 36/63C.
I'm not sure what to say/think.

I'm pretty pissed abut not having the results I want and that I kinda got ripped off I believe.
Maybe over more time it'll get better? *shrugs*

my fan settings are:
abv 0C:   41%
abv 45C:  59%
abv 56C: 100%

any suggestions?


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## zekrahminator (Mar 23, 2006)

RMA that VF-700 and get ATIsilencer5, it comes with very high-quality paste. Make sure to clean all of the old thermal paste off.


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## zekrahminator (Mar 24, 2006)

hey, I know what will really shrink your temps! TT tide water...$80 is a tad rich, but it WILL make your temps go down, and its supposedly one of the easiest liquid cooling kits you will ever see (see the review) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835116017 if ATIsilencer5 doesn't solve your problems.


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## OpTicaL (Jul 31, 2006)

VyxerioN when you installed the VF700 you have to make sure the cooler is completely pressed on top of the GPU. It also has to be perfectly straight, can't have one side of the cooler higher than the other. If one side is higher tighten the screw harder on that side. You dont' have to worry about tightening it too hard because there's rubber washers in between.

Personally my card runs around 59~62C on 100% load. You have to keep in mind that ATi already runs alot cooler than Nvidia cards. My friend's 7800GTX runs around 68~70C on load even with the VF700 running on normal speeds.

The VF900 is out, you might want to give that a try. I've read alot of reviews on Newegg that users who switched from the VF700 to the VF900 got a 5~10C drop on load.

I would assume that is true because the VF900 has a much higher surface area than the VF700 and the VF900 uses heatpipes instead of regular heatsink.

I guess Zalman figured that headpipes were required after all the claims that their VF700 didn't run to spec, but how well your VF700 runs really depends how well your case is cooled and what type of environment you live in. Can't expect to have a 10C drop when your house is located in the middle of the desert.


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## robs03silvergts (Aug 2, 2006)

trog100 said:
			
		

> i also have no idea why so many people say use the zalman cooler.. the artic one does a better job..  it exhausts the heat out of the case the zalman dosnt.. it also lets atitool control its fan speeds the zalman one dosnt.. the zalman has nothing going for it except its name..
> 
> trog



I agree. Zalman is an absolute POS period. I get so sick of people recommending that fan against the Artic Silencer.

I remember seeing a few reviews of the Zalman cooler and all them were horrible and usually ended up doing a worse job than the stock cooler that was already on the card. 

My last card was an X850XT and I had a arctic silencer fan on that card and was able to run 600mhz core and 620mem. With the stock cooler I could get 585core and 600 mem.


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