# Cheap DDR3 Capable of 2000MHz+



## Regeneration (Jan 26, 2019)

The following eBay merchant sells cheap Samsung DDR3 1600MHz 4GB memory modules:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-RAM-1G...AM-DIMM-Intel-240Pin-for-Samsung/132426515500

Despite no heatsink and incomplete SPD, those are genuine Samsung modules, capable of 2000MHz+ CR1 with manual timing. Tested on M378B5273DH0-CH9.




Use the following timings as reference:

@ 1200 MHz 9-11-11-31 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 42-193-3-7-16-10-10-28-7 (RC-RFC-CR-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP-FAW-WCL) *1.65v*
@ 1000 MHz 9-11-11-31 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 42-193-2-6-16-9-9-28-7 (RC-RFC-CR-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP-FAW-WCL) *1.55v*
@ 800 MHz 11-11-11-28 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 39-128-5-12-6-6-24 (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP-FAW)
@ 761 MHz 10-10-10-27 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 37-122-5-12-6-6-23 (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP-FAW)
@ 685 MHz 9-9-9-24 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 33-110-5-11-6-6-21 (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP-FAW)
@ 609 MHz 8-8-8-22 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 30-98-4-10-5-5-19 (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP-FAW)
@ 533 MHz 7-7-7-19 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 26-86-4-8-4-4-16 (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP-FAW)
@ 457 MHz 6-6-6-16 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 22-74-3-7-4-4-14 (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP-FAW)

Some voltage boost may be required. Test stability with MemTest64.


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## MrGenius (Jan 26, 2019)

Wow. I'm impressed. And I'm not being sarcastic. My spendy Team Xtreem 2666 modules won't do CL9 @ 2400 no matter how many volts I run them with. I can only get 10-12-12-32 CR1 fully stable with ~1.58V. They'll do 10-12-11-31, but not fully stable(again, regardless of raising voltage). And I paid about 2x as much per GB as those. Actually slightly more than 2x as much. Damn. I think I might have to grab some of those. And if they do as good as yours....sell the spendy sticks. Since I'm only running them @ 2400. They'll clock higher. But it doesn't do me no good if I never run them at higher clocks anyway.


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## Regeneration (Jan 26, 2019)

Some expensive DDR3 modules have a lousy tRFC (300) resulting in a copy bandwidth of 28GB/s. The cheap Samsung memory gives 32GB/s even @ 2000.


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## Reefa_Madness (Feb 1, 2019)

> The following eBay merchant sells cheap Samsung DDR3 1600MHz 4GB memory modules:



I'm just a little confused by part of the above quote...I believe that those M378B5273DH0-CH9 should be spec'ed at DDR3-1333, not DDR3-1600. The "DH0-CH9" model # indicates that they have HCH9 chips on them. It is a DDR3-1333 part. See link below.

https://starmicroinc.net/samsung-4g...-rank-desktop-memory-module-m378b5273dh0-ch9/

I am not surprised that you were able to achieve those results. With add'l voltage they might even have a little more in them. There was a thread over at Xtreme Systems back in 2012 where member Dumo binned a bunch and found some that could hit 2600 CL10 at 1.7v and even 2800 CL11 at 1.75. They actually hold up quite well to the add'l voltage.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...msung-generic-HCH9-dbl-sided-2X4GB&highlight=

These HCH9 are the chips that were used by all of major ram players for years. They were binned and used in the DDR3-2133 & 2400 CL9 (@ 1.5v) and the DDR3-2600 & 2666 CL10 (@ 1.65v). Later, the infamous Samsung Low Profile / Low Voltage "Wonder Ram" came out with the then newer 30nm HYK0 chips. Those were rated at DDR3-1600 by Samsung. The HYK0 started being used for the high-end parts, along with the HCH9, as they both were capable of meeting the clock / timing / voltage requirements.

Sometime in later (2012 / 2013 ?) another variant became available, the HC15. These were not quite as good as the earlier ones, but since production ceased on the HCH9 & HYK0, there wasn't any choice for ram manufacturers. And as the existing supply of the HCH9 / HYK0 ran out, so did the availability of those high-clocking CL9 & CL 10.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 1, 2019)

16 GB Gskill Ripjaws X 2133 (2400 OC, 10-10-12-20-20, 1T, 1.65V)

Pretty much Trident with tighter timings than they have. This is DOCP oc with manual timings, no FSB bump.


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## MrGenius (Feb 1, 2019)

Reefa_Madness said:


> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...msung-generic-HCH9-dbl-sided-2X4GB&highlight=


Thanks for posting that. It prompted me to double down. What do I mean by that? Well...I'd already pulled the trigger on 16GB of the M378B5273DH0-CH9(should arrive today as a matter of fact). But...in case those don't do as well as I'd like...I just ordered another 16GB of the M378B5273DH0-CK0. Since it looks like the HCK0 is just about as good as, every bit as good as,  or maybe even better than, the HCH9. So I just increased my odds of getting something better than what I have by ~2x. And all said and done, it still cost me a little less for 32GB of the Samsung than 16GB of the Team Xtreem(which I actually have 32GB of too). Anyway...price isn't really much of an issue with me lately. I'll play around with the Samsung's and see which ones perform better. And either sell the rest of my DDR3 collection...or hoard it. Whatevs...


Reefa_Madness said:


> ...the *infamous* Samsung Low Profile / Low Voltage "Wonder Ram"...


That's an oxymoron. Since you used infamous instead of famous. Which is a common mistake. But I'm a bit of a grammar Nazi. So I have to point it out. Sorry. 

*in·fa·mous*
/ˈinfəməs/

_adjective_

well known for some bad quality or deed. wicked; abominable.


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## Reefa_Madness (Feb 1, 2019)

In addition to "wicked",  "notorious" is another of the definitions, and at times both are used in the same way as the word "bad" is used to mean good...such as in "that is some bad-ass weed". By your own admission, the word infamous is commonly used instead of famous. It may not be in the dictionary that way, but it is in the vocabulary of folks.

I am quite sure that when you read my post you knew exactly what I meant, and after all, isn't that the real purpose of communication?  

As for the HCK0, I've had some, and I've seen other posted results (I believe there might even be some in that XS thread I linked above), and in my experience it does not match HCH9, nor HYK0, but granted, those have been small samples so it will be interested to see how yours fare.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Infamous as always meant famous for a bad/negative reason...


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## Reefa_Madness (Feb 1, 2019)

And bad has always meant bad...until it began to mean good. 

Come on guys, this is a computer enthusiast forum, leave your red pencils at the office for when you are reviewing drafts, proofreading proposals, or grading term papers, whatever the case may be. Don't turn this into something it doesn't need to be.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Reefa_Madness said:


> And bad has always meant bad...until it began to mean good.
> 
> Come on guys, this is a computer enthusiast forum, leave your red pencils at the office for when you are reviewing drafts, proofreading proposals, or grading term papers, whatever the case may be. Don't turn this into something it doesn't need to be.



Same goes for you lol


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## Reefa_Madness (Feb 1, 2019)

> Same goes for you lol



Seriously? I'm focusing on your choice of words within a post, instead of the substance of the post? OK, if you say so.


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## Sasqui (Feb 1, 2019)

Holy wow, even for 1600 speed, that's a great price at $17.89 / 4gb

It ships from China, that's the only catch I see.


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## Regeneration (Feb 1, 2019)

Both M378B5273DH0-CH9 and M378B5273DH0-CK0 are equipped with awesome K4B2G0846D-HCxx memory chips capable of high clocks and low timings. Manufactured on week 50, 2018. Most expensive 2000+ kits from other vendors use those chips. $17 for 4GB stick is a bargain.


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## natr0n (Feb 1, 2019)

I hope not every ass hole and there cousins buy all these up.


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## MrGenius (Feb 1, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> Manufactured on week 50, 2018.


You sure about that chief? The four M378B5273DH0-CH9 sticks I just installed are all from 2012 week 17(date code 1217). Someow I doubt they were still making them through 2018. I'd pretty much need to see a pic for proof of that...to believe it.

These M378B5273DH0-CK0 I ordered today are 2013 week 24(x1) and week 38(x3).





Anyhow...I've been messing around with these M378B5273DH0-CH9s for about an hour now. Aaaaaaaaaaannnnd…NO LUCK AT ALL!!! So far I can't even get them to run 1333 9-9-9-24 1T. They won't boot at anything but 9-9-9-24 2T w/1.5V. Which is...sickening...

But...I'll keep banging away at it. Maybe I'll find a way to get something worthwhile out of them...


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## NdMk2o1o (Feb 1, 2019)

MrGenius said:


> You sure about that chief? The four M378B5273DH0-CH9 sticks I just installed are all from 2012 week 17(date code 1217). Someow I doubt they were still making them through 2018. I'd pretty much need to see a pic for proof of that...to believe it.
> 
> These M378B5273DH0-CK0 I ordered today are 2013 week 24(x1) and week 38(x3).
> View attachment 115508
> ...


Give um some volts man  ddr3 is good for AT least 1.65v as that's within spec, you should be able to go higher without going crazy


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## Regeneration (Feb 1, 2019)

This is what I got:


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## MrGenius (Feb 1, 2019)

NdMk2o1o said:


> Give um some volts man  ddr3 is good for AT least 1.65v as that's within spec, you should be able to go higher without going crazy


I started out trying to get them to run like what I had @ 2400 10-12-12-32 1T. Pumped the volts all the way up to 1.9V. Nothing. Not havin' it. That's pretty much when I realized...these just aren't gonna cut it. And I think I just figured out why too. *They're M378B5273DH0-CH9 sticks...BUT...THEY ARE NOT HCH9 CHIPS!!!* *THEY'RE BCH9!!! WHAT THE FLYING FINKLEFOCKLE IS THIS BULLSHIT?! *






I bought them from this guy.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-M378B5273DH0-CH9-LOT-4-x-4GB-16GB-DDR3-PC3-10600U-Desktop-Memory-RAM/123496951995?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

And if you look at the pic he's showing, it clearly shows some with HCH9 chips.




So yeah...buyer be-fricken-ware.

*NOT ALL M378B5273DH0-CH9 STICKS HAVE HCH9 CHIPS!!!!!!!!*

**


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## NdMk2o1o (Feb 1, 2019)

MrGenius said:


> I started out trying to get them to run like what I had @ 10-12-12-32 1T. Pumped the volts all the way up to 1.9V. Nothing. Not havin' it. That's pretty much when I realized...these just aren't gonna cut it. And I think I just figured out why too. *They're M378B5273DH0-CH9 sticks...BUT...THEY ARE NOT HCH9 CHIPS!!!* *THEY'RE BCH9!!! WHAT THE FLYING FINKLEFOCKLE IS THIS BULLSHIT?! *
> 
> View attachment 115514
> 
> ...


Charge back man, item not as described/pictured


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## Regeneration (Feb 1, 2019)

That's not the source I linked to. You bought used modules. My link is for new modules. And the worst part, you paid the same price.

Try to adjust the timings. You can't use the exact ones from another kit.


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## MrGenius (Feb 2, 2019)

I'm not pointing any fingers at you. I know exactly what the deal is. And it has nothing to do with who I bought them from, or that they're used, or how much I paid for them. None of which means shit to me(frankly, because it's all totally irrelevant). They are the same model/part #/SKU that you bought. But it turns out they don't all have the same ICs as the ones you got. Apparently some have HCH9 and some have BCH9. Ya live ya learn. I didn't hear anybody saying that was the case with them. So I didn't know that was even a possibility. I did, however, know that I might not be getting something I'd ultimately be happy with. Which is why I ordered the other set with HCK0 chips.

EDIT: Just took a closer look at the pic of those M378B5273DH0-CK0 sticks I ordered today. Son of a ...can you freaking believe my luck?! Looks like I'm (probably) getting shafted on those too. The chips on those are *BCK0!!!* *NOT HCK0 like they're supposed to be either!!! GREAT!!! *

So...here we go again...BUYER BEWARE...

*NOT ALL M378B5273DH0-CK0 STICKS HAVE HCK0 CHIPS!!!!!!!!*

Anywho...I sorta know what I'm doing as far as OCing some RAM(been at this for QUITE a few years now ). So I don't really need any advice there. Thanks anyway.

Bottom line: It looks like I might have them stable @ 2400 11-15-15-43 2T with ~1.81V. Which, surprisingly, yields performance similar to the sticks I had already @ 2400 10-12-12-32 1T with ~1.58V. And is significantly better than yours @ 2000 9-11-11-31 1T.







What I had already. The only thing that's better is the latency(and not by much).






PS, I have no intention of bothering the seller with a return either. I agreed to his conditions when I purchased them. As in, I read that he doesn't accept returns, and whaever I got I was gonna be stuck with. I knew he had a number of different sets of the same memory. And that I might not get a "good" set out of those. That's the way the cookie crumbles. I ain't mad at him in the slightest. I am a little ticked off at Samsung for selling the same model/part #/SKU with different ICs. You should be able to buy the same thing and get the same thing. These ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same thing. But whatever. I ain't gonna cry about it. And I'm not going to return them or try and sell them to someone else...so someone else can be disappointed too. I'm better than that. I'm just going to eat it and move on. Cuz that's the kinda guy I am.


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## Reefa_Madness (Feb 2, 2019)

@ MrGenius,

You stated earlier how theses generics HCH9 were perhaps even better than your Team 2666 CL10. You might be interested in knowing that in the thread from XS that I linked earlier one of the fellas posted pics of Team DDR3-2600 CL10 (slightly lower bin than yours) and guess what was under the hood? Yep, BCH9. He had also posted a pic of onether kit with HCH9 so it appears that Team was using both at the time. That being the case, it is entirely possible that your 2666(s) might also have BCH9.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...-sided-2X4GB&p=5159318&viewfull=1#post5159318

Another thing I noticed from your screenshots is the MSI Z77 MPower motherboard you are using. I recall reading discussions when this board was first released about the difficulties that board had clocking the Samsung 4GB modules. Subsequent BIOS revisions attempted to fix this, but I have no idea as to whether they were successful. I know that I personally sent some pretty good HYK0 to a friend of mine to use on his and he returned them because they wouldn't do squat for him, yet for me they were hitting over 2400 on an LGA 2011 rig with less than 1.65v in a quad config. 

Have you previously been able to achieve significantly better clocks with other Samsung based ram on that same cpu / motherboard combo you are currently using?


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## MrGenius (Feb 2, 2019)

@Reefa_Madness I did go back through that thread and see the mentions of BCH9 chips. I'm guessing at this point that I just didn't win "The Silicon Lottery" with the set I got. But they're not really that bad when you put it in perspective. I can't get them running with "tight" timings at higher speeds, and can't get CR1 at any speed(stock or above anyway). I can actually get them running seemingly stable with quite a bit better timings than what I can boot with. They pretty much refuse to boot @ 2400 with anything but 11-15-15-43 2T. They seem to run fine in the OS @ 2400 with 11-11-11-31 2T though(and the same ~1.81V they need to boot w/ 11-15-15-43). It's also worth noting that @ 2400 they're +80% OCed. Which ain't bad when you think about it. And, for whatever reason, they still perform pretty much equally to my other kit that I run @ 2400 with tighter timings. They just need a bit more voltage to do it. But even tightened up as tight as I can get them they don't gain me any performance over what I had. Which is...well...what it is. Hopefully the BCK0 sticks I have coming will do better. I even went hog wild and ordered another set of what I hope shows up as HCH9(a matching set of 2011 week 39s). I've lost my mind at this point...somebody stop me!

About the board and other Samsung RAM. The board seems capable of running whatever I throw at it as fast as it'll go. I haven't thrown a lot at it at this point though. I have no idea what brands what I've ran are based on(besides the Samsung generics). All I've got(besides the BCH9) are the Team Xtreem 2666 11-13-13-35 2T 1.65V and a 4GB stick of G.Skill Ripjaws 1333 9-9-9-24 1T 1.5V. Which might all be Samsung for all I know. Or all something else. I haven't a clue. I do know that the Ripjaws stick will run 2400 10-12-12-32 1T w/ 1.65V. So, if it's Samsung, it's better than the BCH9s that I have(well...tighter timings and less volts "better" that is).


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## Reefa_Madness (Feb 2, 2019)

@MrGenius 

I personally like playing around with OEM / generics, and have done so since the days of DDR. You have to go into it with the mindset that since these are not binned, anything extra you get is a bonus. It would appear that you understand the need to have that mindset.

You've raised another question for me. I thought your Team was a 2666 CL10, but now you've posted that they are CL11. If that's the case then they may not be Samsung at all, but instead, Hynix. If they are single-sided modules then they are probably MFR, and if double-sided they should be CFR. Neither are likely to run CL9 at 2400. If you download the free version of Thaiphoon Burner it will identify the manufacturer of the ram chips.

http://www.softnology.biz/files.html



> 4GB stick of G.Skill Ripjaws 1333 9-9-9-24 1T 1.5V



What are the first 8 digits of the serial number printed on the last line of the module's label. The first 3 or 4 indicate the manufacturing year and week, and then the next 3 are used by GSkill to denote the manufacturer of the chips used to produce the module. The coding was changed by GSKill around April of 2012 so you really need the combination of numbers to get a better idea as to what is being used. The 8th digits is usually a zero, but sometimes there will be a letter. I don't know for sure what it represents, but appears enough that it must mean something.

This link below, also from XS, has the coding, both before and after April 2002. I think the codes have been changed again since the introduction of DDR4, but I don't know if these are recapped anywhere. I don't have any parts that use DDR4 so I have not had the need to look those up.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?283666-Figuring-out-G-Skill-s-SNs

Some additional info can be found in the attached image, which is nothing more than my recap of info that others discovered. By utilizing the dates and coding, along with the info from Thaiphoon Burner, you can get a reasonably good idea of what's under the hood of GSkill's modules.

I realize that all of this is off-topic of sorts from the subject of this thread, so my apologies to the OP.


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## MrGenius (Feb 2, 2019)

@Reefa_Madness 

Yeah...TB don't tell me shit. For the Team sticks or the G.Skill stick. The Team are 2666 11-13-13-35 2T 1.65V, that I run @ 2400 10-12-12-32 1T 1.58V, because they're more stable like that with my 3770K.

Here's those(double-sided 8GB modules, which I think you're probably right about being Hynix CFR).




Here's the G.Skill stick. It says "310" and "2015 Jan" in the hologram(that the flash blew up). I can't say I fully understand how to determine the IC manufacturer from the serial number. You tell me.


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## Reefa_Madness (Feb 2, 2019)

@MrGenius

TB didn't give you a screen that looks like the attachment below? It displays after you click on "Read" and select one of the channels listed. In my attached S/S, note that if you look under "Dram Components" you see the Part Number, however, it doesn't show if it is BFR or CFR. However, at the bottom it does show timings for various different clock speeds, including 800MHz so it has to be a DDDR3-1600 part (CFR) otherwise it would have only listed timings up to 667MHz (BFR),

As for the red GSKill module, starting from the left, we have a mfg date of year 2015 week 02 (YYWW  format). Looking at the codes for after April 201, the next 4 digits of 140H indicate Hynix and based on your pic your 4GB module appears to be a single-sided module therefore we are looking at a 4Gb density chip like MFR, instead of a 2Gb chip like CFR (or Samsung's HCH9). Because they are from 2015 it is possible that they could be MFR. There is (was?) a C-die and a Q-die. IIRC, there is also an AFR variant. Tried to locate a confirmation of that but couldn't find it.

Every now and then you get a kit that has a letter instead of a digit in that last spot of the 4-digit IC code like yours does. I seems that I've noticed the letter in kits originating outside of the US and others have expressed similar findings, but it really isn't confirmed.

So, in summary, none of those "name brand" modules are Samsung, but instead are Hynix.

BTW, when trying to identify what's under the hood, this thread, also from XS, is slap full of good info.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?285767-DDR3-IC-thread


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## MrGenius (Feb 3, 2019)

Reefa_Madness said:


> TB didn't give you a screen that looks like the attachment below? It displays after you click on "Read" and select one of the channels listed. In my attached S/S, note that if you look under "Dram Components" you see the Part Number, however, it doesn't show if it is BFR or CFR. However, at the bottom it does show timings for various different clock speeds, including 800MHz so it has to be a DDDR3-1600 part (CFR) otherwise it would have only listed timings up to 667MHz (BFR),


I get this with the Team sticks. So they're BFR then.




I get this with the G.Skill.




I didn't realize there was any useful info to be gleaned from any of that. I was partially right though. Since there ain't much.


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## Reefa_Madness (Feb 3, 2019)

@MrGenius 

I don't know where my brain was yesterday, perhaps off on holiday, but I misread some of the info off the TB screen. Several corrections are needed.

First off, when I looked at your Team labels I saw "8GB" and thought that was the total kit capacity, when in fact that is the individual module's capacity. I went back and looked at it again because the info on the TB screen didn't match up with what should be on an 8GB kit. It shows a 4Gb density module with a rated speed of 1333. Your double sided Team 2666 CL11 are Hynix MFR.  The info was staring me right in the face so I have no excuse. You can read all that from the screenshot under the captions of "Speed Grade" and "Die Density".  Another one of my misreads...the timings at the bottom of the image are first, the JEDEC standards and then below those are the timings the manufacturer has binned them for, in your case, 1333MHz or DDR3-2666 at CL11. For what it's worth, these are some of the best binned 16GB kits that were available, as most were CL12 at these speeds. I previously alluded to those being one more of the JEDEC timings when determining whether it was a 1333 or 1600 part and that was incorrect.



> I didn't realize there was any useful info to be gleaned from any of that. I was partially right though. Since there ain't much.



Yeah, it isn't perfect. It is just one of the tools that you use, in conjunction with other available info, to make the best educated guess. In the end, removing the spreaders and looking at the actual chips is the best way. Even that isn't 100% as sometimes the chips have been relabeled. At that point you're left with measuring the size of the chips, the method used to mount them to the PCB and other technical means. I've never gone to that level. Most I'll do is remove the spreaders, and only on kits that I know the warranty is void, for example if I bought them second hand.

Note that the GSkill module doesn't have that last group of timings that the Team does and that would be because it's speed and timings ratings from GSKill are the same as the JEDEC standards for DDDR3-1333. Don't know if some of the other missing info on the GSkill is due to it not being programmed into the SPD, or read failure on the part of TB. It would be interesting to see what info CPU-Z could return for that module, as this is the basic stuff usually available from the CPU-Z Memory tab.

Speaking of available info, in case you don't know, Corsair uses version numbers in the same way GSKill uses their IC code. Kingston also used a numbering system on their packaging, and a letter code on the module labels. More about that is detailed here:

https://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/755487-DDR3-Memory-Chip-Information-Sources

Again, I keep forgetting the purpose of this thread was to make note of the Samsung chips available on eBay and we have certainly gone off on a tangent. Once again my apologies to the OP.

And in keeping with the HCH9 theme of this thread...for those in the US, or with friends in the US, I ran across these just a few minutes ago during my daily trip down eBay's "Memory Lane". 

Well binned HCH9 from GSkill:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/G-SKILL-Tr...h=item4434613f77:g:7mEAAOSwnjZcTi6Z:rk:9:pf:0


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## MrGenius (Feb 4, 2019)

Bah...the nightmare continues...

Got the M378B5273DH0-CK0 sticks with the BCK0 chips in today (Sorry about the pic quality...my phone needs charged...had to use the backup cam).




Good news first? They boot @ 2666 12-15-15-47 2T with 1.76V. If you can call that good. They were cheap too...I guess. $45 shipped for 16GB.

Bad news? Oh...there's plenty of that. My motherboard hates them. Or something. I don't quite get it. The problem...I think... is the amount of RAM it detects and, therefore, it not running them in dual channel. If I reset the CMOS and go into the BIOS it says 16GB installed. I can check the memory pages that say there's 4 x 4GB installed with all the correct info. But as soon as I save and exit the BIOS...8GB go missing...ish. It's a total *WTF?* situation. 

What do I mean by that? Depending on what I check it says one thing or another thing. Almost all of it being wrong in one way or another. CPU-Z says I have 16GB installed, 4GB per slot x4, with all the rest of the details as they should be...EXCEPT running in *single* channel. HWiNFO says exactly what CPU-Z says. How TF can I have *all 4 slots filled* and be in *single* channel? That's not even possible. MSI Control Center says I have 4 slots filled, 4GB per slot, dual channel, but the timings for channel A are all out of whack(channel B timings are fine, as in the same that everything else reports). AIDA64 says I have *4 x 4GB* DIMMs installed for a total of *8GB*? What the math? MemTest64 says Modules 0 and 1 are empty, but Modules 2 and 3 are 4GB DIMMs. Thaiphoon Burner sees a 4GB DIMM in each of the 4 slots. But Windows 10 also says I only have 8GB installed. And, like I said, if I go back into my motherboard BIOS after saving and exiting it says there's only 8GB now...but it also says all 4 slots are still filled with 4GB DIMMs.  There doesn't appear to be a dead stick or sticks. They all seem to work. But my system just says "fock that snot...not havin' it! not all of it anyway!".

I dunno. I tried flashing a different BIOS on my mobo. Swapped the sticks around in the slots. Nothing. Same deal. I don't know if I even have the patience to try and figure this one out. I'm thinking I'll probably just  return them and get my money back. Seller offers returns within 30 days and pays for the return shipping.


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## DR4G00N (Feb 4, 2019)

These are not bad for the price, I have some from years ago. The particular speed bin isn't really important so long as it's D-die and they're all hit and miss oc'ing wise.
Only one of my six sticks will do 2800 9-12-12 @ 2.1V The rest need 10-13-13 @ 2.2V. 2666 9-12-12 @ 1.9V is bit more doable with 4 dimms.

One thing to note, 2GB dimms will oc better but they will be a bit slower overall compared to the 4GB dimms.


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## MrGenius (Feb 5, 2019)

DR4G00N said:


> ...they're all hit and miss oc'ing wise.


You got that right. It's an incredibly naive thing to think that you can get 4 of these sticks to overclock the same and/or with the same voltage. I'm learning that the hard way. You've got to bin each individual stick to see what they'll do. "This week or that week is a better batch" they say. BULLSHIT!!! You'll be goddamn lucky if you can get 2 from the same week's production to overclock the same and/or with the same voltage. Let alone 2 from different week's productions. Thinking you can get 4 out of 4, even from the same week? YOU'RE HIGH!!! So far it's looking like out of this latest batch I got, I've got 2 from 1338 that'll do 2666, one from 1338 that'll only do 2600, and the one from 1324 might barely do 2400. None of them with "tight" timings and/or "low" voltage. All barely do CL12 at those speeds with around 1.6V to 1.76V(haven't got stupid with the volts yet, and I'm not sure I intend to, I'm looking for daily-drivers). And they're ALL D-die(the BCH9s and the BCK0s).

EDIT: So...yeah. If you were guessing that's what the problem was. Good guess!!! You were right! Looks like my motherboard is smart enough to kick the duds to the curb and run the fastest pair in single channel all on its own. Which is pretty cool...in a way. But...not exactly what I'd want it to do.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 5, 2019)

MrGenius said:


> Bah...the nightmare continues...
> 
> Got the M378B5273DH0-CK0 sticks with the BCK0 chips in today (Sorry about the pic quality...my phone needs charged...had to use the backup cam).
> View attachment 115728
> ...



Could be Timings too tight for the amount installed and Clock speed.

I saw that happen on my platform when I tried my 16GB kit of Ripjaws X 2133 at 2400 speed with a CAS of 9. The bios would detect all of it but windows at that point could only utilize only half of it.

Once I bumped it back to 10 it was fine.

Now at 2133 my kit can run at 9.

I am unsure if it can run 8 or 7 though.


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## MrGenius (Feb 5, 2019)

This "kit"(not even a good name for it AT ALL) is just a clusterfrick nightmare. Every stick is so different from every other stick as far as timings, clock speeds, and voltage they want to run stable at...I can hardly get 2 of them to run...OVERCLOCKED AND OVERVOLTED...with the same settings at the same time. Total garbage for OCing in my book. They run stock as perfect as they possibly could though. Good thing I didn't pay a lot for 'em. Cuz I sure ain't gonna get a lot out of 'em... 

I don't know what else to even say at this point. I have learned a valuable lesson though. I'll NEVER go down this road again. That's FOR SURE!!! "Buy generic RAM and OC it to the point that it performs as well as, or better than, the spendy stuff" they said. Yeah...right. Go to Vegas and gamble the money instead. You've got just about as much chance of coming out a winner. There's nothing wrong with budget RAM per say. It's the idea that you can get more than what you pay for that's...well...a crock of shit. You either get lucky...or you don't. And that's all there is to it. Trying to get lucky does not a good idea make. 

Turns out I'm and idiot...see post below.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 5, 2019)

MrGenius said:


> This "kit"(not even a good name for it AT ALL) is just a clusterfrick nightmare. Every stick is so different from every other stick as far as timings, clock speeds, and voltage they want to run stable at...I can hardly get 2 of them to run...OVERCLOCKED AND OVERVOLTED...with the same settings at the same time. Total garbage for OCing in my book. They run stock as perfect as they possibly could though. Good thing I didn't pay a lot for 'em. Cuz I sure ain't gonna get a lot out of 'em...
> 
> I don't know what else to even say at this point. I have learned a valuable lesson though. I'll NEVER go down this road again. That's FOR SURE!!! "Buy generic RAM and OC it to the point that it performs as well as, or better than, the spendy stuff" they said. Yeah...right. Go to Vegas and gamble the money instead. You've got just about as much chance of coming out a winner. There's nothing wrong with budget RAM per say. It's the idea that you can get more than what you pay for that's...well...a crock of shit. You either get lucky...or you don't. And that's all there is to it. Trying to get lucky does not a good idea make.



I havent used value ram in some time, I know kingston used to be top for that. I found mushkin just to be as good or better.

But yeah random builds these people pull ram from= box o chocolates


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## Regeneration (Feb 5, 2019)

My second order from China arrived and I've been lucky again.





M378B5273EB0-CK0 with K4W2G0846P-HC15 chips.

Don't have time to test it yet, but a Google search shows the chips are used on G.Skill 1600 CL7 and 2133+ kits:

https://ru.gecid.com/prtart.php?id=36984

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/gskill-ripjaws-2133-is-using-gddr3.208003/

https://www.hkepc.com/11617/RipjawsX_DDR3-1600_C7登場_G.SKILL_F3-12800CL7D-8GBXM/page/2


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## MrGenius (Feb 5, 2019)

Well...I've sort of had a change of heart about the "kit" I was having problems with. As I've been able to sort out the issues to a fairly satisfactory extent(basically just had to unlink the timings between channel A and B, so they'd boot and all be detected). And, once again, in the end they aren't nowhere near as bad as I thought they were. And it turns out they too are a pretty spectacular bargain in terms of price vs. performance. I didn't really get the boost in performance I was after. But...this "kit", like the other, performs pretty much the same as the "kit" I've been trying to upgrade from. Which is damn good, considering I only paid about half as much as the first Samsung "kit". And only about a third as much as the spendy "kit" I'm trying to upgrade.

Yadda yadda yadda...this is how they stack up.

16GB Team Xtreem LV 2666 @ 2400 10-12-12-32 1T w/ 1.58V $150




16GB Samsung M378B5273DH0-CH9(BCH9) 1333 @ 2400 11-11-11-30 2T w/ 1.81V $80




16GB Samsung M378B5273DH0-CK0(BCK0) 1600 @ 2400 12-12-12-34 2T w/ 1.5V $45




As you can see...pretty much equivalent in performance(within margin for error). The only thing significantly different is the price.

But...I've got one more Samsung "kit" on the way too. So there's still a chance I picked a REAL winner(in terms of price to performance ratio).


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## Regeneration (Feb 5, 2019)

Glad to see you're happy with the cheap Samsung memory.

The one i got today (M378B5273EB0-CK0) runs at 11-11-11-30 and somehow beats my expensive G.Skill 2400 10-12-12-31 kit.


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## DR4G00N (Feb 5, 2019)

BTW for D-die you want to run the tRCD & tRP two or three increments higher than the tCL, eg. 9-12-12, 10-12-12, 10-13-13, ect.

@MrGenius
The likely reason they're not doing great is probably because your on Ivy. Ivy IMC is not nearly as good as Haswell especially when loaded with all four dimm's. 2400 @ 2T is probably the best you'll get with four dimm's without loosening the timings up a lot more. M-power is also not the most amazing mem clocker overall, Asus Z77 or Z77 OC Formula smoke it.

Newer DDR3 platforms will always oc mems better than older ones. These samsung's on X58 need 2.2V for 2220 8-10-10 1T as an example.


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## Bones (Feb 5, 2019)

I'll throw this in as an example from a run I did sometime ago, these being a set of G. Skill PSC chipped sticks with a stock rating of CL6-8-6-24.




This example is a newer kit of DDR3 from Corsair, you can see what they are as indicated by the CPU-Z SPD tabs, rated as PC 2800 sticks.




For a set of G. Skill DDR3 PSC chipped sticks the 5th through 8th numbers of it's model string are "1040". If you see a set of DDR3 sticks from G. Skill with that on them, they are PSC chipped sticks and what you'd want to get.
I'll also say unless I "Know" what I'm seeing are the actual sticks I'm buying I'll pass on listings that say they have some but what you see may or may not be what you get....
Or those using stock photos.


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## MrGenius (Feb 5, 2019)

DR4G00N said:


> BTW for D-die you want to run the tRCD & tRP two or three increments higher than the tCL, eg. 9-12-12, 10-12-12, 10-13-13, ect.
> 
> @MrGenius
> The likely reason they're not doing great is probably because your on Ivy. Ivy IMC is not nearly as good as Haswell especially when loaded with all four dimm's. 2400 @ 2T is probably the best you'll get with four dimm's without loosening the timings up a lot more. M-power is also not the most amazing mem clocker overall, Asus Z77 or Z77 OC Formula smoke it.


I'm not having any problems running the tRCD and tRP the same as the tCL. That works just fine. The problem I have with this motherboard(and my Z77A-GD65 Gaming) is once it decides what the tCL(and CR) should be...that's as good as it'll do. Everything else I can mess with to an extent. Also voltage only helps with the clocks and not the timings AT ALL. But it is what it is. And as far as 2400 @ 2T with 4 DIMMs...it'll do better than that actually. I can run the 4 x 8GB Team sticks @ 2400 10-12-12-32 1T w/ 1.58V stable as a table all day long.


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## bogmali (Feb 6, 2019)

If you don't have anything to contribute besides hurling insults-stay away please. Thread cleansed


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## MrGenius (Feb 7, 2019)

The M378B5273DH0-CH9(HCH9) sticks came in today. I've had time to test them, and form my final conclusions on this subject. Foremost of which is the realization that I'm limited by what my Z77 motherboard(MSI Z77 MPower) and CPU(i7-3770K) will do with these Samsung ICs. And limited by the Z77 platform in general. I've not been able to get any RAM(Samsung or other) 100% stable above 2400. I've gotten 2600, 2666, and even 2800 to boot and run some quick benches. But 2400 is where I cap out for 100% stability. Regardless of how much is installed, and/or how fast it's rated for/capable of, and/or how "tight" the timings are(or aren't), and/or whatever amount of voltage I throw at it. Which is all stuff I pretty much knew already. I was really just trying to get something that performed a little better @ 2400(than my Team Xtreem LV 2666 kit). Which I just barely might have succeeded at. At a fairly high cost(in terms of $). But whatever. I'm over that. It's all good in the hood! 

So...this is how it all played out. I was able to get all 12 4GB Samsung sticks to run stable @ 2400 with 1.5V. The only difference was the timings I could get them running stable with. I was able to get 8 Samsung sticks to boot @ 2600 with a little bit more voltage. And the other 4 Samsung sticks to boot @ 2666 with a little bit more voltage. None of them(Samsung) would boot above 2666. That boiled down to this(as far as what sticks do what):

*Samsung M378B5273DH0-CH9(BCH9)*
Boots @ 2600
Stable @ 2400 11-11-11-31 2T 1.5V
Price = $70 for 16GB ($4.38 per GB)

*Team Xtreem LV 2666*
Boots @ 2800(1 stick out of 4) or 2666(4 sticks out of 4)
Stable @ 2400 10-12-12-32 1T 1.58V
Price = $300 for 32GB ($9.38 per GB)

*Samsung M378B5273DH0-CH9(HCH9)*
Boots @ 2600
Stable @ 2400 11-12-12-33 2T 1.5V
Price = $80 for 16GB ($5 per GB)

*Samsung M378B5273DH0-CK0(BCK0)*
Boots @ 2666
Stable @ 2400 12-12-12-34 2T 1.5V
Price = $45 for 16GB ($2.81 per GB)

As far as performance(it's basically as shown above...but specifically as below):

1. *Samsung* *M378B5273DH0-CH9(BCH9)* are just barely faster in latency than *Samsung* *M378B5273DH0-CH9(HCH9)* & *Samsung* *M378B5273DH0-CK0(BCK0)*(and performance as close as possible to identical to those in all other aspects), and barely faster write speed than my *Team Xtreem LV 2666* sticks @ 2400 10-12-12-32 1T 1.58V(and performance as close as possible to identical to those in all other aspects).

2. *Samsung* *M378B5273DH0-CH9(HCH9)* & *Samsung* *M378B5273DH0-CK0(BCK0)* perform identically to each other(or as close to it as possible), with barely faster write speed, but slightly slower latency, than my *Team Xtreem LV 2666* sticks @ 2400 10-12-12-32 1T 1.58V(and performance as close as possible to identical to those in all other aspects). So...basically a tie for second place for those 3.

*And...the winner by a nose is...Samsung M378B5273DH0-CH9(BCH9)!!! *

*THE END*


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## Regeneration (Feb 7, 2019)

Don't forget about the price. $100+ vs. $34 for dual. Memory vendors ripped us off all this time.


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## MrGenius (Feb 7, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> Don't forget about the price.


Added.


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## MrGenius (Feb 8, 2019)

Well...I thought it was all said and done. Turns out it wasn't. Close...but not quite.

What happened was I decided to try and see if I could push any of these Samsung's to a little higher clock speed than I got them up to previously. Like start with whatever they did before and add a little BCLK to it. Since I was running them all, as I always do for daily use, with the BCLK @ stock(100MHz). Anyhow...in the process of which things turned out a bit differently than I stated previously. I'll just cut to the chase. This is how that all turned out(except for the *Samsung M378B5273DH0-CK0(BCK0)*, which I sold to another member here yesterday, and couldn't retest):

*Samsung M378B5273DH0-CH9(BCH9)*
Boots @ 2746(*+106%* *OC*) 11-15-15-48 2T 1.81V(4 x 4GB)
Stable @ 2400(*+80% OC*) 11-11-11-31 2T 1.5V(4 x 4GB)
Price = $70 for 16GB ($4.38 per GB)

*Team Xtreem LV 2666*
Boots @ 2866(*+7.5% OC*)* 12-14-14-37 2T 1.98V(1 x 8GB), or 2666(*rated speed*)* 11-13-13-35 2T 1.65V(4 x 8GB)
Stable @ 2400(*-10%* *UC*)* 10-12-12-32 1T 1.58V(4 x 8GB)
Price = $300 for 32GB ($9.38 per GB)

*Samsung M378B5273DH0-CH9(HCH9)*
Boots @ 2744(*+105.9%* *OC*) 11-15-15-48 2T 1.83V(4 x 4GB)
Stable @ 2400(*+80%* *OC*) 11-12-12-33 2T 1.5V(4 x 4GB)
Price = $80 for 16GB ($5 per GB)

Nothing changed stable performance wise. I was just able to clock the Samsung's quite a bit higher than I did before(needed some more SA and IO volts to get them in the 2600+ range). And I failed to mention that the one 8GB Team stick that clocks higher than the other 3, actually clocks a bit higher than I mentioned previously. But, in actuality, I haven't tested each individual Team stick for the highest clock it will run yet(I just know only one of them will boot @ 2800+, and the rest boot @ 2666 at least). I also added some CPU-Z Validator links for proof, plus the voltages, # x capacity of DIMMs, and timings for the Boots @(but not stable @) clocks too. I have a feeling I could have gotten the *Samsung M378B5273DH0-CK0(BCK0) *sticks to boot @ 2800+ CL12. But, like I said, *SOLD*. Oh well. Wouldn't have done me any good if they did. Just bragging rights...

*Technically these were built using chips *rated for* *1333*. So @ 2400(*+80% OC*), @ 2666(*+100% OC*), and @ 2866(*+115% OC*)...if you prefer.


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## Bones (Feb 8, 2019)

I've noted with mine sometimes using a little BCLK can squeeze a little more from them rather than stepping up to the next divider. 
Everything has a limit, some of it is in how you get it there. 
Good stuff here guys, glad to see success with this.


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## Reefa_Madness (Feb 9, 2019)

@MrGenius , it occurred to me that you've shorted the overclock % of the Team 2666 kit just a tad. 

Looking back at the TB screen from your post #27 it shows that those Hynix MFR are really a DDR3-1333 part, exactly like the Samsung HCH9 are a 1333 part. The only difference is that Team has binned the chips...then overclocked them 100% and sold them as 2666. You took them a little further when you booted up at 2866. So comparing apples to apples, by my calculations that's more along the lines of a 115% overclock over the chip manufacturer's speed rating for them.


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## MrGenius (Feb 9, 2019)

Reefa_Madness said:


> @MrGenius , it occurred to me that you've shorted the overclock % of the Team 2666 kit just a tad.
> 
> Looking back at the TB screen from your post #27 it shows that those Hynix MFR are really a DDR3-1333 part, exactly like the Samsung HCH9 are a 1333 part. The only difference is that Team has binned the chips...then overclocked them 100% and sold them as 2666. You took them a little further when you booted up at 2866. So comparing apples to apples, by my calculations that's more along the lines of a 115% overclock over the chip manufacturer's speed rating for them.


True. But I chose a different perspective. One of "they've been requalified to do this speed now". So any more than that I can consider a bonus OC. And when I run them at a lesser speed I consider it an underclock, since they've been proven to be able run faster. Technically, it's wrong. I know. But it's right, in a way, too.

I guess I'll make a note of it.


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## emissary42 (Feb 9, 2019)

@*MrGenius: *The Z77 MPower should not have issues with stability @ 2666/2800 with a 3770K unless the CPUs memory controller is really crappy. Have you tried manual subs and voltages?



Regeneration said:


> Don't forget about the price. $100+ vs. $34 for dual. Memory vendors ripped us off all this time.


Not all retail kits are rip-offs. You will have a hard timing finding original Samsung 2Gbit D-Die that can to 2666+ 10-12-12 with tight subs under 1.65V fully stable. Good retail bins can do that without issue and will have voltage tolerance to hit 2800/2933 9-12-12 with 1.85/2V. The binning costs are also factored into the retail prices among other more obvious things like warranty and such. If you understand the scaling properties for certain ICs you can very quickly see which kits are really worth their price premium... because the manufacturer had to run a very tight bin to produce them. in some cases it probably was less than 1% of the chips that cleared certain specs, which in result made those kits quite expensive (and some also kinda rare).


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## MrGenius (Feb 9, 2019)

emissary42 said:


> @*MrGenius: *The Z77 MPower should not have issues with stability @ 2666/2800 with a 3770K unless the CPUs memory controller is really crappy. Have you tried manual subs and voltages?


I've tried everything. I think it basically boils down to what I consider stable and/or safe for 24/7 OC. I'm not willing to run what I consider to be excessive/unsafe volts for a 24/7 OC. Which is a matter of opinion. But I base my opinion roughly on as follows.







That's the main thing anyway. The other thing that applies is the performance gain, or lack thereof. So far I'm not able to get what I consider to be better performance running higher than a 2400 memory divider. Which is probably due to not being able to get "tight" timings and/or CR1 with memory dividers above 2400 no matter what I do. Not only with my Z77 MPower, but also with my other Z77 board(a Z77A-GD65 Gaming, which is no slouch either, and has been capable of everything the MPower can do, but the Vcore VRMs run a bit hotter doing it). As far as one 3770K vs. another IMC wise...I've had 1 other(death from Vcore overvolt) and it was exactly the same as this one in that regard. I've also had a total of 4 3570Ks(killed 3, 1 still living) that were capable of doing the same as my 3770Ks in the memory department(on either of my Z77 boards). So...I've either never had an Ivy Bridge K with a weak IMC...or they've all been weak. IMO though...there's no such thing as a weak Ivy Bridge K IMC. All the same IMO, and/or IME. An opinion that I noticed was shared by @der8auer as well. Whom stated, much as I've experienced personally, that an Ivy Bridge K should be capable of what he calls a 24/7 memory OC of at least 2400...but any higher than that is very unlikely. Anyhow...I digress...back to the performance @ 2600+. I can't get better performance in anything but slightly faster latency running 2600+ compared to 2400. Which, like I said, is probably due to the "loose" timings and/or not being able to get CR1. Write speed usually stays about the same, but read and copy speeds either also stay about the same or start tanking hard @ 2600+(depending on which particular DIMMs). So even if I could get 2600+ "stable", it's either not going to gain me much in performance(if anything at all), and will invariably need more voltage(in one form or another) than I'm willing to run with 24/7. Not gonna run the SA or IO with more than 1.1V, or the Vmem with more than say 1.7V for a 24/7 OC. Maybe I'm being too cautious, or maybe I'm not. Regardless, nothing to be gained performance wise anyway so far as I can tell. When the sweet spot performance wise appears to be 2400 with .94V SA, 1.05V IO, and 1.5V-1.58V Vmem.

Oh...forgot about what I consider to be "stable". 20 runs of MemTest64 with 8GB of 16GB(or 16GB of 32GB) and NO ERRORS.

EDIT: Actually I lied about the CR. I can get the Team sticks to run @ 2600 11-13-13-34 1T with 1.65V. But performance, in general, is slightly less than/the same as @ 2400 10-12-12-32 1T(aside from possibly slightly faster latency, or possibly not even, basically within margin for error IMO). And they don't pass my stability testing method anyway(or at least not with voltage I'm comfortable running 24/7, and I haven't even tried with more than that, nor do I intend to, pointless).


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## emissary42 (Feb 9, 2019)

If you don't see any perfiormance gains going from 2400 to 2600+ you need to tighten the subtimings further. It is possible that your sticks are not up to it, but with a decent kit performances scales beyond 2400 no issue.

Old screen with dirty OS:


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