# b-die tweaking, timings ok?



## Fry178 (Jan 17, 2022)

finally found the cause for my "instability" (board added 0.01-0.08 Mhz to Bclk after cold boot scramble bios),
im finally able to tweak ram.
i got a corsair 3600c14/1T/1.45v LPX kit (2x8gb), and wanted to double check the timings.
im able to pass 100% of HCI (dos) with 14 flat, but want to tweak all other timings, before running 1000% pass,
and i still have trouble figuring what is interconnected/affected, or what makes (more) sense, vs just going lowest.
trying to go as fast as possible (within reason), but dont need to get the last 0.001% 

5800x in eco mode, Gb Ultra x570, soc 1.05, vddp 0.95, vddg 1.0, proct 40, GD and PD are off.

(14-14-14-14)-30-46/1T
CWL ?
FAW 16
WR 8 (10/12)
RTP 5 (8)
RFC 288/280/272/264/256
RRD S 4, L 4
WTR S 4, L 8
WRRD 1
RDWR 8
cKe 1
RD SCL 4 (3)
WR SCL 4 (3)
WR SC 1, SD 7, DD 7
RD SC 1, SD 5, DD 5


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## freeagent (Jan 17, 2022)

Fry178 said:


> soc 1.05, vddp 0.95, vddg 1.0


For 3600?

I would do 1.1 SOC, and for just 1800 I have my VDDG's @ stock as well as CLDO. But for over 1833 I will bump them to .999 IOD @ 1.055, .999 and it runs fine. SOC gets a bump to 1.125 and is good for 1900. I am using the boards default subs for 2133 15-15-15..


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## Fry178 (Jan 18, 2022)

yeah, thought that was enough (?!)
have fluctuations, so i tried not to have it go too high, 1.05 is 1.06-1.07 eff,
so i lowered it a bit, as it seemed to mess with usb.

vddg got set to "amd oc" to 1.05 after i set everything else, so i manually set it to 1v, to match soc.

just trying to see if timings are off, e.g. i set faw to 16, but you and others have higher numbers,
cke to 1 (stable with cl16), but see others running 3-7, and dont know much about things like proc/drv str.
all connected to the higher IF, or just not able to run lower (or even if it makes sense)?


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## Ibizadr (Jan 18, 2022)

I have my gskill kit 3600 cl16 to 3800cl14 @1.5v. It's a b die kit so give it a try. I think it's the same chip gskill advertise 3600 cl14 @ 1.45.


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## tabascosauz (Jan 18, 2022)

procODT usually no reason to touch if nothing wrong or obscenely off, not a performance enhancer. Same with drive strength unless you want 1T. Same with tCKE, varies with board/kit. None of them exist on a sliding scale where bigger or smaller number is "faster". Also don't copy others' procODT and tCKE *especially* if not single rank like yours.

3600 should be pretty chill but if you want 3800 then VDDG_IOD and VSOC gonna have to come up. At 3600 I think I was at 0.95V for both VDDGs and something like 1.03V VSOC.

For me 3600 14-14-14 and 3800 15-15-15 run the exact same VDIMM stable. Once I went to a loop I no longer had the ability to cool more than 1.45V so 15s is fine.

Generally no need to have VDDP any higher than 0.95V, doesn't seem to help anything, it's usually on VSOC and IOD to make a difference for IF if you struggle with IF stability.


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## Fry178 (Jan 18, 2022)

lol, had hoped the usual suspects could comment 

forgot to mention i wont touch if or cpu for now, as even in eco mode its fast enough.
im done buying fast kits (e.g. 4000@19) and hope lower timings at lower speeds will work,
so went with the 3600c14/1T, to have an easier starting point for timings.

didnt see a drop in latency with rfc264, so i upped to 280.
or should i go 1 more step up/down?
besides stability, anything on 2nd/3rd timings that can lower perf if too low?
as in, it might make sense to go with say 2/3/4/5/6 vs my 1 (cke/RD/WR stuff)?

thanks for all answers btw.


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## Fry178 (Jan 19, 2022)

what volt is usually causing the usb trouble (sticks switch between  off/online, kb/mouse acting up)...
still have it now and then.


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## freeagent (Jan 19, 2022)

Fry178 said:


> what volt is usually causing the usb trouble


RMA your CPU. I have two Ryzen 5000 series chips and none have usb issues.

Ram looks ok.. way tighter than I run mine


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## Taraquin (Jan 19, 2022)

Fry178 said:


> what volt is usually causing the usb trouble (sticks switch between  off/online, kb/mouse acting up)...
> still have it now and then.


What agesa you on? Try a later agesa and see if it helps. I had those issues with agesa 1.1.0.0, got fixed with agesa 1.2.0.0. I would try running ram at 3800cl15, it will improve speed at bit and doesn`t require that much more voltage. Mine run 3800cl15 1t 100% stable at 1.07v soc, 0.98v iod and 0.82v ccd and vddp. Running in eco mode I would consider curve optimizer, gives you 5-10% extra performance at same consumption\temp etc.


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## Fry178 (Jan 19, 2022)

its not the cpu, as a 3800xt on different board does the same (with identical settings),
nor do i have it with stock use.

1.2.0.4A


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## tabascosauz (Jan 20, 2022)

Fry178 said:


> what volt is usually causing the usb trouble (sticks switch between  off/online, kb/mouse acting up)...
> still have it now and then.





Fry178 said:


> its not the cpu, as a 3800xt on different board does the same (with identical settings),
> nor do i have it with stock use.
> 
> 1.2.0.4A



USB issue really isn't something you can just easily tweak away......you could try changing VSOC either direction or IOD. 

AGESA 1200 and 1201 were supposed to fix the USB shenanigans and they did the most pressing concerns but I've never had a B550 board that didn't have the occasional disconnect sound. B550M TUF, B550I Aorus AX, B550 Unify-X. My current X570 Impact is the only board that's completely problem-free on all BIOSes I've tried.


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## Fry178 (Jan 20, 2022)

not the known usb issue, just minor things like num lock turning off etc.
not happing outside the oc, just didnt want to apply randomly, but expected it to be those.
i had them on the lower end, adding .01 fixed it.


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## Chomiq (Jan 20, 2022)

> The a patch of agesa 1.2.0.4 has a VDDG CCD and IOD bug that puts them fixed 1V no matter what u have selected in BIOS




__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/rh6s7q
Can't confirm that as I opted for one bios before 1.2.0.4a.

Aren't USB disconnects related to buggy AGESA?


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## Ibizadr (Jan 20, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> What agesa you on? Try a later agesa and see if it helps. I had those issues with agesa 1.1.0.0, got fixed with agesa 1.2.0.0. I would try running ram at 3800cl15, it will improve speed at bit and doesn`t require that much more voltage. Mine run 3800cl15 1t 100% stable at 1.07v soc, 0.98v iod and 0.82v ccd and vddp. Running in eco mode I would consider curve optimizer, gives you 5-10% extra performance at same consumption\temp etc.


Its any benefit in try to lower VSOC vddg vddp?


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## Taraquin (Jan 20, 2022)

Uses less power on IO-die so CPU clocks boost higher. On dual ccds you usually need higher ccd than on single.


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## Fry178 (Jan 20, 2022)

AGAIN, never had any issues with disconnects.
only with KB/mouse not working as expected on manual config.

@Chomiqcve
you need to tell that to my crappy Gb board, can set all (needed) volts manually, and able to see the difference
guess my bug collection cancels each other out 
should i still go back to pre 1.2.04?


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## Ibizadr (Jan 20, 2022)

Taraquin said:


> Uses less power on IO-die so CPU clocks boost higher. On dual ccds you usually need higher ccd than on single.


So by your point maybe I have to much power on ccd and vddp? I think I can't lower my iod what you say about?


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## Taraquin (Jan 20, 2022)

Ibizadr said:


> So by your point maybe I have to much power on ccd and vddp? I think I can't lower my iod what you say about?


It may be needed, but if you can run them lower you can get a bit more performance since IO-die uses less. Try aida, if latency increases atleast one volt is to low. Suggestion: try iod 1000mv, ccd 950mv and vddp 900mv, it may be to low for you, but will probably work, maybe you cab run as low as me.


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## Fry178 (Jan 25, 2022)

Still had blck fluctuating, and while it now stays below 101 (101-109Mhz before),
prev release seems to need more soc (1.031xxV) to prevent cold boot trouble.

gonna keep it set like this for a few days before redoing ram tweak.


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## freeagent (Jan 25, 2022)

You can turn spread spectrum off and that should keep your clocks steady.


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## Taraquin (Jan 25, 2022)

freeagent said:


> You can turn spread spectrum off and that should keep your clocks steady.


And it might stabilize ram oc, did that for me


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## Fry178 (Jan 25, 2022)

lol, not sure why anyone would assume i have it enabled, even without looking at bdie or tweaking secondary/tertiary timings,
as this should never be used enabled for 99% of users.


the bsclk (only one affected) is set to 100.00, changes happen after a cold boot messes up bios settings,
short of reflashing bios and reapplying (prior) profile it keeps happening with stock/auto SOC V..


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## freeagent (Jan 25, 2022)

Did you try a touch more vdimm?


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## Fry178 (Jan 26, 2022)

board already boosts V to 1.46x
rn i just wanna observe soc/cold boot for a few days, just to make sure i dont have reflash after starting tweaks.


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## GorbazTheDragon (Jan 26, 2022)

Probably just crappy 4dimm board+GDM off


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## Fry178 (Jan 27, 2022)

Thanks for not spending the time to lock at my info nor the specs,
you can save even more time, by not posting irrelevant answers here, thanks.


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## freeagent (Jan 27, 2022)

TRFC at 282 might get you fixed up. I can run 262 easily with 2T, or needs more vdimm with gdm on..


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## ShrimpBrime (Jan 27, 2022)

1.45v Vdimm for only 3600mhz cl14's seems high. I guess the kit came that way???

Saw mention of "cold boot trouble" ?
Is that the restart deal at cold post?
If the board is equipped with memory training algorithm, the the restarts at cold post are normal. The board is training 2nds and 3rds 

Should check out what taiphoon burner says about the PCB. I know my A2 kits don't like tighter than CL13 on 1T command rate.

At any rate, some screen shots from the OP would be grand. I've only encountered screen shots from those trying to help....

GL!


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## freeagent (Jan 27, 2022)

ShrimpBrime said:


> 1.45v Vdimm for only 3600mhz cl14's seems high.


Both of my 3200C14 kits need 1.45 for 3600C14. I am assuming sticks used to do it with less voltage? That would be nice.. 

Welcome to the new normal I guess


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## Taraquin (Jan 27, 2022)

Fry178 said:


> lol, not sure why anyone would assume i have it enabled, even without looking at bdie or tweaking secondary/tertiary timings,
> as this should never be used enabled for 99% of users.
> 
> 
> ...


Spread spectrum is enabled by default and often works with OC, but it's eadier to OC without it


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## ShrimpBrime (Jan 27, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Both of my 3200C14 kits need 1.45 for 3600C14. I am assuming sticks used to do it with less voltage? That would be nice..
> 
> Welcome to the new normal I guess


Mine are fine at 1.4v. Where it's set now actually. Though I'm not home to do any proving it, but on the old 8700K and Maximus X hero... I guess that's a different story there.


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## tabascosauz (Jan 27, 2022)

ShrimpBrime said:


> 1.45v Vdimm for only 3600mhz cl14's seems high. I guess the kit came that way???



High if your standard is what, 4400CL16 XMP bins? 1.45V is pretty reasonable at 3600/14 for most run of the mill B-die.

Mine come with that XMP but I can manage down to about 1.42V at 3600/14. Rather middle of the road for this bin

Also Gigabyte boards always overvolt VDIMM without exception.


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## freeagent (Jan 27, 2022)

I think I can squeeze 1.425 on one set, the other might be 1.45.. I will have to check when I get home lol.. all good Jon I believe you


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## ShrimpBrime (Jan 28, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> High if your standard is what, 4400CL16 XMP bins? 1.45V is pretty reasonable at 3600/14 for most run of the mill B-die.
> 
> Mine come with that XMP but I can manage down to about 1.42V at 3600/14. Rather middle of the road for this bin
> 
> Also Gigabyte boards always overvolt VDIMM without exception.


Who can afford that? Oh I do have a set of 4267mhz.... cl19, A2 pcb...
But also 3600 CL 16s B-Die 1.3v, only takes 1.40v to run em cl14s which would be no better or worse bin than 3200 CL 14s. 

I've found the PCB revision has a bit more concern rather than a rated frequency at X voltage. My A2s do not like CL12 at 4000mhz 1.90v at all. But A0 and A1 kits seem to pull it off.

But let's ignore the mention of the PCB revision and pick on Shrimps voltage statement instead. Yes, my silly opinion is 1.45v seems high.

In fact running 1.2v SOC seems silly for any frequency under 4000mhz. 

However I don't run AMD for my personal use at this time. So I should digress from the thread and leave it alone. I know nothing.


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## freeagent (Jan 28, 2022)

ShrimpBrime said:


> I know nothing.


You both know more than I do.. Not afraid to say it 

And I am pretty sure memory and it characteristics would be slightly different when running on Intel or AMD..


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## tabascosauz (Jan 28, 2022)

ShrimpBrime said:


> But let's ignore the mention of the PCB revision and pick on Shrimps voltage statement instead. Yes, my silly opinion is 1.45v seems high.
> 
> I know nothing.



Hey, no need for that. We both know that you know your stuff. Just saying that 1.45v isn't so unreasonable. And because it's Gigabyte it's like, impossible to tell where VDIMM is without a multimeter.

Never seen A0 outperform A2 at just about anything, but there's a first time for everything......maybe A0 is tighter at lower speeds so you're probably right


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## freeagent (Jan 28, 2022)

You guys are all awesome, just so you know.. be kind rewind


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## ShrimpBrime (Jan 28, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Hey, no need for that. We both know that you know your stuff. Just saying that 1.45v isn't so unreasonable. And because it's Gigabyte it's like, impossible to tell where VDIMM is without a multimeter.
> 
> Never seen A0 outperform A2 at just about anything, but there's a first time for everything......maybe A0 is tighter at lower speeds so you're probably right


I wasn't saying unreasonable. Just a little high/er than I'd expect.



freeagent said:


> You guys are all awesome, just so you know.. be kind rewind


It's all good. 

I don't start OCing till 1.6v  lol

Totally untuned, set 1.40v - reads 1.408 (which I like, droop is bad) -
Cpu is stock.
Memory timings only manually 14-14-14-34, the rest is auto.


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## Taraquin (Jan 28, 2022)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Who can afford that? Oh I do have a set of 4267mhz.... cl19, A2 pcb...
> But also 3600 CL 16s B-Die 1.3v, only takes 1.40v to run em cl14s which would be no better or worse bin than 3200 CL 14s.
> 
> I've found the PCB revision has a bit more concern rather than a rated frequency at X voltage. My A2s do not like CL12 at 4000mhz 1.90v at all. But A0 and A1 kits seem to pull it off.
> ...


On overclock.net the general rule us that you often can run lower timings on A0, but speed is limited vs A2. Some A0 kits can't go much past 3600, but happily do 3200cl12. There are always exceptions though 



Fry178 said:


> lol, not sure why anyone would assume i have it enabled, even without looking at bdie or tweaking secondary/tertiary timings,
> as this should never be used enabled for 99% of users.
> 
> 
> ...


For many it seems agesa 1.2.0.3b or c was the best. Tried any of them?


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## basco (Jan 28, 2022)

what sometimes helps on A2 pcb or not so strong Bdie if going for lower voltage without loosing much is cl14-15-15


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## Fry178 (Jan 30, 2022)

running ram stock/auto settings (jedec), as well as with mentioned timings, passed 1200% in hci (dos + win).
i wasnt too sure about some timing "ranges", and/or "connection" between certain timings, hence this post to get some insight,
as i know lower doesnt always equal "better", just not much clue past primary timings/voltage, especially on Ryzen...


@freeagent
no trouble with lower rfc
why i would want to go higher (as it seems to be an important non-primary).
dont remember perf diff between them, didnt write down results

@ShrimpBrime
its set because its sold as CL14/1.45v kit, and all bdie gets min 1.35, usually 1.45v recommended anywhere i looked,
and im tweaking timings right now, ram voltage isnt my focus rn.

there is no restart issue nor memory training (turned off).
with everything stock, any soc below 1.03v will lead to no-post (on next boot),
after power was removed (no difference if 10s or 10 days).

@Taraquin
yeah, back on .b, after i experienced another no post and had to reflash anyway (or risk bclk boost again).

@basco
looking at timings first, will lower v once i know what i can run...


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## Fry178 (Feb 2, 2022)

seems to be fine with 1.03 for stock, gonna see that i start testing tweak this weekend.


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## Taraquin (Feb 2, 2022)

Fry178 said:


> seems to be fine with 1.03 for stock, gonna see that i start testing tweak this weekend.


If it's fine stock the it will be fine once tweked, but what subs you can tweak can vary a bit. Big variance in tolerance for rcdrd, rp, rc and rfc on B-die. Most others like cl, cwl, rrd, faw, wr, rtp, wtr rdwr acts similar between good and bad bin and just need more or less voltage.


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## Fry178 (Feb 4, 2022)

so checking board site to see if latest bios is still beta, i saw this added by GB:

• Major vulnerabilities updates, customers are strongly encouraged to update to this release at the earliest.
Credits to "Assaf Carlsbad and Itai Liba from SentinelOne"
• Introduce capsule BIOS support starting this version.

just wanna see if anyone can chime in


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## tabascosauz (Feb 4, 2022)

Fry178 said:


> so checking board site to see if latest bios is still beta, i saw this added by GB:
> 
> • Major vulnerabilities updates, customers are strongly encouraged to update to this release at the earliest.
> Credits to "Assaf Carlsbad and Itai Liba from SentinelOne"
> ...



Gigabyte adopted an inherently vulnerable way of packaging their BIOSes, so now they're moving to the .CAP format that Asus has used since forever. It's not got anything to do with performance and iirc it's really not a matter of critical importance for home users

It's AM4, so every time you change AGESA you are pretty much spinning the lottery wheel in hopes that new AGESA doesn't randomly make your performance worse. AGESA 1.2.0.0-1.2.0.3b were pretty good in my experience on Asus/Gigabyte/MSI, 1.2.0.5 has not been regarded so favourably but ymmv


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## Fry178 (Feb 5, 2022)

thanks, ill stick to F34 then, just wanted to check before i start tweaking.

so usb doesnt work for sticks, and volt for vddp/vddg are stuck on some form of auto/normal,
and wont change to what i set, so going back to 1.2.0.4a


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