# Best sound card for gaming



## bamdaman14 (Oct 16, 2012)

Hey guys I just need recommendations for a sound card thats good for gaming. Not too expensive.


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## tacosRcool (Oct 16, 2012)

ASUS XONAR DG

ASUS XONAR_DG 5.1 Channels PCI Interface Xonar DG ...

$25


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 16, 2012)

I second the Xonar. If you have multi channel speakers and want more than mere simulated surround though, you'll have to go with something a bit more expensive than the DG.

This is the one I'd get. Only $32 after rebate and the HUGE plus is it has DTS Connect.
ASUS Xonar DS 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Inter...

Note that the games do not have to be encoded in DTS for it to play them in DTS. This card can take the PCM signal from the games and encode them with DTS. That's what DTS *Connect* is.

Just make sure your MB has a free PCI slot, esp if you use or plan to use SLI or Crossfire.


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## silapakorn (Oct 16, 2012)

If you want the best then it normally has to be expensive.
Personally I use an x-fi titanium HD, which is superb for gaming, movie and music.


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 16, 2012)

Yeah, well his title is a bit misleading, but the post clarifies affordable. You don't have to spend over $100 to get better than onboard sound. Hell, most onboard chips only produce up to 16,000Hz. IMO the ASUS cards are the only way to go in an affordable price range. 

Creative has never put much into their cards. Did you know with mods available on the net you can basically turn an inexpensive Audigy card into an X-Fi? That is because Creative has a cheap, cookie cutter way of manufacturing, and varies their product mostly via software. 

It's getting even worse with Creative's latest DSP based Recon product. They're basically putting all the sound quality into mere firmware now. Worse yet, Creative's driver support is always the worst of any sound card on the market.


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## btarunr (Oct 16, 2012)

I use Creative SB Recon3D. Its Scout Mode is helpful in BF3.







And then there's this (how I talk to strangers):






Inb4 "creative bad drivers herp derp" nonsense.


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## KingPing (Oct 16, 2012)

I used a Creative X-Fi Titanium and i totally recommend it, now i have a Creative Titanium HD and it's even better. Also this weelk i'll be getting an Asus Xonar DX (seems pretty good, we will see) to connect my Analog 5.1 speakers since the Titanium HD doesn't have 5.1 analog out, but my headphones are connected to the Titanium HD. The Recon 3D seems pretty good for gaming, not so good for music, but no worse the the onboard, don't have one though.

Never had any issued with creative drivers so far, except that you can't install 2 sound cards with are similar, because i was planing to have both the Titanium HD and the X-Fi Titanium in the same PC, but now i will replace the X-Fi Titanium for the Xonar DX.

Also what's "not too expensive" for you?


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## hat (Oct 16, 2012)

It's not nonsense, it's the truth. Just a really old truth that's been gone over for years.

I had a Xonar DG for a while before my friend sent me his old X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro. It was a good card, I liked it... the headphone amp was a nice feature as well. The only other thing I really have to add to this is that I have a friend who swears up and down that you want a PCI-E card, not a PCI card. Something about collisions on the PCI bus and somesuch... not sure if it's better for performance, sound quality or both.

If you were looking at the Xonar DG, consider this:
ASUS Xonar DGX 5.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Expre...

or, the PCI-E variant of the D1:
ASUS Xonar DX 7.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interfac...

Note that sound cards are only good for analog audio. If you're already running optical, hdmi, or coaxial spdif to a home theater receiver, then a sound card will do little more than nothing for you.


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## btarunr (Oct 16, 2012)

I've never faced any problems with any Creative drivers, ever. And I've been using Creative sound cards since the days when you had to load drivers using autoexec.bat and config.sys


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## hat (Oct 16, 2012)

I've run into that memory leak issue here and there, and I'm not the only one I know who has. Seems to happen a lot with CMSS/Stereo Expand and Ventrilo... and their solution is "well don't use those features then". MS and Creative bouncing the blame for the problem back and forth and nobody does anything to fix the issue.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 16, 2012)

heh ISA!

Never had any issues with CL other than driver support being dropped after a few years, plus the Fiasco in Windows Vista-8.

Heard gripes about Xonars though

http://brainbit.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/

might want to use those drivers


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## KingPing (Oct 16, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> Heard gripes about Xonars though
> 
> http://brainbit.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/
> 
> might want to use those drivers



Yeah i will use those from day one.


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## Jetster (Oct 16, 2012)

I just got a ASUS Xonar DGX with the Unified Drivers and Love it. I hear stuff that makes me jump all the time


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## Nordic (Oct 16, 2012)

I bought a dg, was $15 with rebate if that is still going on. It was certainly an improvement over my onboard. Gaming is not the same anymore without it. I can not say for anything better, but for the xonar dg is a heck of a deal.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 16, 2012)

james888 said:


> I bought a dg, was $15 with rebate if that is still going on. It was certainly an improvement over my onboard. Gaming is not the same anymore without it. I can not say for anything better, but for the xonar dg is a heck of a deal.



n this is where AIBs rock over onboard audio


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## GLD (Oct 16, 2012)

I have my pci X-Fi Fatal1ty Extreme Gamer I am looking to sell for $30. Real good card. In a smaller place and don't have my 5.1's hooked up so I really don't need it to game with headphones.


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 16, 2012)

On the mention of Pci-Ex vs PCI, PCI was mostly a problem with Creative cards. When they went to Pci-Ex, most of the complaints of crackling audio went away.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Oct 16, 2012)

A sound card is like the only thing I will miss going mini-itx. Gonna use onboard optical out to my Z-5500s. Not great solution but no other options that I know of...


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 17, 2012)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> A sound card is like the only thing I will miss going mini-itx. Gonna use onboard optical out to my Z-5500s. Not great solution but no other options that I know of...



USB Sound cards


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## Wrigleyvillain (Oct 17, 2012)

Which are worth a damn? The Z5500s do have a DAC albeit not a great one (also far from an audio expert here).


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## Am* (Oct 17, 2012)

btarunr said:


> I use Creative SB Recon3D. Its Scout Mode is helpful in BF3.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/121015/bta091.jpg
> 
> ...



I partially agree. Can't say Scout Mode helps in BF3 much, but it does in COD, L4D and a few other games. The problem with using it in BF3 is, it also amplifies explosions in the background, over which you cannot hear anybody's footsteps (heh).

And I can say that the Recon3D is the first glitch-free and stable sound card I've ever had in Windows 7 and I used the Xonars (DG & D2) & the Creative Xtreme Gamer before getting this card (all of which had problems in W7). And since the Recon3D unofficially fully supports EAX and DirectSound through ALchemy, I can safely say, there's not a single sound card out there that does GAMING better on Windows 7 than the Recon3D (don't even get me started on the terrible Xonar GX emulation crap, which does not even remotely come close).

P.S. How did you manage to change the colour of the control panel? Or is yours the non-Fatality version, hence the blue control panel colour scheme (mine's red)?


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## xBruce88x (Oct 17, 2012)

hat said:


> It's not nonsense, it's the truth. Just a really old truth that's been gone over for years.
> 
> I had a Xonar DG for a while before my friend sent me his old X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro. It was a good card, I liked it... the headphone amp was a nice feature as well. The only other thing I really have to add to this is that I have a friend who swears up and down that you want a PCI-E card, not a PCI card. Something about collisions on the PCI bus and somesuch... not sure if it's better for performance, sound quality or both.
> 
> ...



The PCIe one would be the one I'd pick... seems to have higher quality caps and such on it. Also... my gpu is currently blocking all my PCI slots... 

As for Creative... The cards seem to work fine until you turn on hardware acceleration in games... audio lags like crazy... though I think this is a DX issue since my realtek chipset does the same thing when using the 3D sound back drivers and such.

I miss the old days of EAX and such.


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## btarunr (Oct 17, 2012)

Am* said:


> I partially agree. Can't say Scout Mode helps in BF3 much, but it does in COD, L4D and a few other games. The problem with using it in BF3 is, it also amplifies explosions in the background, over which you cannot hear anybody's footsteps (heh).
> 
> P.S. How did you manage to change the colour of the control panel? Or is yours the non-Fatality version, hence the blue control panel colour scheme (mine's red)?



Scout mode hotkeys look after that. If you're lurking or capturing key bases on foot, it helps. Yes, mine is the non-Fatal1ty variant.


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## bamdaman14 (Oct 17, 2012)

btarunr said:


> I use Creative SB Recon3D. Its Scout Mode is helpful in BF3.
> 
> I'm thinking about getting this card because I do a lot of gaming.


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## Hood (Oct 19, 2012)

*Creative - King of Marketing*

Creative has always used cutting edge graphics on their packages and their software looks all futuristic and cool, but the truth is Creative's hardware and software is bottom rung crap that rarely works properly together - witness the dozens of third party drivers that have been written for Creative hardware in an attempt to address these problems.  I used Kx Mixer for my Audigy 2 card just to get it to work in XP.  Nothing I tried would get it to work properly in Win 7.  Yes, it's old hardware, but how hard is it to continue support on your own hardware when each legacy unit that's still in service is a testament to the manufacturers quality and longevity?  Almost every other PC hardware company maintains a driver database to cover any hardware that will still plug into a slot or port, and the O.E.M.'s drivers are almost always the best ones to use.  Not in Creative's case, though - their driver problems are legendary and their  lack of solutions in the face of universal criticism also reveals their total lack of concern for their customers.  Of course, all the above is just my opinion as a long time sufferer.   Yes I could have bought a different brand, but locally only Creative is available and I was young and foolish.  I am now using the on board Realtek ALC892 that came on my Asus P8Z77-V, and it works great using the optical SPDIF at 24 bit 96,000 Hz.  So stay away from Creative and go with any Asus card that fits your budget.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

Hood said:


> Creative has always used cutting edge graphics on their packages and their software looks all futuristic and cool, but the truth is Creative's hardware and software is bottom rung crap that rarely works properly together - witness the dozens of third party drivers that have been written for Creative hardware in an attempt to address these problems.  I used Kx Mixer for my Audigy 2 card just to get it to work in XP.  Nothing I tried would get it to work properly in Win 7.  Yes, it's old hardware, but how hard is it to continue support on your own hardware when each legacy unit that's still in service is a testament to the manufacturers quality and longevity?  Almost every other PC hardware company maintains a driver database to cover any hardware that will still plug into a slot or port, and the O.E.M.'s drivers are almost always the best ones to use.  Not in Creative's case, though - their driver problems are legendary and their  lack of solutions in the face of universal criticism also reveals their total lack of concern for their customers.  Of course, all the above is just my opinion as a long time sufferer.   Yes I could have bought a different brand, but locally only Creative is available and I was young and foolish.  I am now using the on board Realtek ALC892 that came on my Asus P8Z77-V, and it works great using the optical SPDIF at 24 bit 96,000 Hz.  So stay away from Creative and go with any Asus card that fits your budget.



Might have to force XP mode in 7.

ya I experimented with KX drivers for a PCI 512 in XP, I wound up going back with the original drivers since i figured out how to install everything manually from the Setup CD (Which wanted to install everything)

that card Had the best MIDI file playback i ever seen.


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## KingPing (Oct 19, 2012)

My new ASUS Xonar DX arrived today, it works like a charm along the Creative Titanium HD. I won't be using headphones with it, that's what the Titanium HD is for. Both music and games with my 5.1 sounds miles better than the onboard.


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## Kusuri (Oct 19, 2012)

I was about to start a thread like this, so I hope it's ok I can get some answers as well in regards to the Asus Xonar cards.

Unfortunately I'm in the market for a new sound card, as my Auzentech X-Fi Forte started to fail. I was very happy with it for about 2 years until it started giving off random popping noises ...

The noise started 1 year ago, but it's so random I could more or less live with it... but it seems to be back in full force.

I just use a 5.1 set of Logitech speakers (G-51) and mainly play games. I was looking at the Xonar DG, but I must ask what's that about "simulated surround" Frag Maniac mentions and does that affect me considering I'll simply use the 3 usual green/black/orange analog jacks (front/rear/center)?

With the current X-Fi Forte I'm not even using Dolby or DTS, just Gaming mode + speakers set to 5.1.

Do you think I will notice any difference in sound quality in games?


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

KingPing said:


> My new ASUS Xonar DX arrived today, it works like a charm along the Creative Titanium HD. I won't be using headphones with it, that's what the Titanium HD is for. Both music and games with my 5.1 sounds miles better than the onboard.



i wore headphones for 7 years in the military, im tired of them honestly


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## KingPing (Oct 19, 2012)

Kusuri said:


> I was about to start a thread like this, so I hope it's ok I can get some answers as well in regards to the Asus Xonar cards.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm in the market for a new sound card, as my Auzentech X-Fi Forte started to fail. I was very happy with it for about 2 years until it started giving off random popping noises ...
> 
> ...



 Simulated surround or virtual surround, simulates a 5.1 or 7.1 surround when you use a 2.1 speakers or headphones, if you already have a 5.1 system like the G-51 there is no need to simulate anything as you already have real surround.
 Dolby or DTS are digital signals to connect the PC to receivers etc. through optical cable, your G-51 is connected through an analog signal (3 cables).


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## Kusuri (Oct 19, 2012)

KingPing said:


> Simulated surround or virtual surround, simulates a 5.1 or 7.1 surround when you use a 2.1 speakers or headphones, if you already have a 5.1 system like the G-51 there is no need to simulate anything as you already have real surround.
> Dolby or DTS are digital signals to connect the PC to receivers etc. through optical cable, your G-51 is connected through an analog signal (3 cables).



Thanks! So I guess the Xonar DG would be good enough for me. I did read a review on Amazon of someone who said it even rivals his Forte. I sure hope so because the loud popping/crackling coming at random when I'm least expecting is driving me nuts. I'm afraid it'll even damage my speakers if this goes on.

Seems like I'm not the only one with the Forte issues (it's kinda funny, but also sad):
Auzentech Forte sound card machine gun sound issue...
X-fi Xfi Hometheater HD Bug Auzentech Creative Kna...
X-Fi Forte 7.1 - YouTube

As for the whole X-Fi thing (which I suppose the Asus Xonar DG doesn't have) it doesn't matter with recent games nowadays or does it? I think the only game I can remember that even has an option to make use of it was BF2, and I had BSODs because of it until Auzentech or Creative finally decided to release a patch to fix them in late 2011... Yeah right when I was no longer actually playing it anymore.

I played some old games with the ALchemy thing too, but don't really do that anymore nowadays either, so I guess now I don't really need that as well.

I would keep this card if there was some way to fix it though, what a shame.


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## Miguel2013 (Oct 19, 2012)

on what games does a sound card helps? I been playing games with and without sound card and the performance is the same!


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

Ubuntusario said:


> on what games does a sound card helps? I been playing games with and without sound card and the performance is the same!



with what speakers and headset?


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## KingPing (Oct 19, 2012)

I would buy a Xonar D1 or DX, IMO are worth the price, though the DG isn't bad either. Whatever Xonar you buy, use these drivers http://brainbit.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/ because ASUS ones are crap.

 The Xonars have some sort of EAX 5.0 emulation, i didn't test it properly yet so i can't give you any advice on that.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

KingPing said:


> I would buy a Xonar D1 or DX, IMO are worth the price, though the DG isn't bad either. Whatever Xonar you buy, use these drivers http://brainbit.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/ because ASUS ones are crap.
> 
> The Xonars have some sort of EAX 5.0 emulation, i didn't test it properly yet so i can't give you any advice on that.



the brainbit drivers are just Asus drivers that have been tweaked/fixed.


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## KingPing (Oct 19, 2012)

Ubuntusario said:


> on what games does a sound card helps? I been playing games with and without sound card and the performance is the same!




In all, IMO the difference is huge, the speakers and headphones are as important as the soundcard.


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## BumbleBee (Oct 19, 2012)

a headphone or speaker is the most important component in the chain. source is second.

computers are a good transport or mixing and mastering but all those components are outside the case because computers use switching power supplies that can be cheap, sound cards have a lot of limitations and inside a case can be really noisy (EMI/RFI).

if you take two components and stack them like this then put a compass on top the compass will behave erratically.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

KingPing said:


> In all, IMO the difference is huge, the speakers and headphones are as important as the soundcard.



dont get me wrong dude but i did notice a difference from going from onboard to onboard (P4 with Asus P4S8X- to AsRock 970 Extreme 4), and the speakers used are 10+ years old now. Labtec Spin 70s.

I also noticed sound cards do improve sound quality and have better EMI shielding compared to onboard audio (way less noise when all sound parts are isolated from a motherboard)


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## BumbleBee (Oct 19, 2012)

the EMI shielding is a gimmick.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> the EMI shielding is a gimmick.



what im saying about that is due to isolation away from the motherboard, it doesnt mean it cant still be affected but i notice more onboard audio has noise come across whether from a HD thrashing or even just a mouse being moved, whether board was in a case or not.


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## BumbleBee (Oct 19, 2012)

none of the metal shields surround the whole card and even if they did I can demonstrate what happens to a compass when a power supply gets to close to another and this is with components much more expensive. some of these sound cards even have plastic. it's purely cosmetic.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 19, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> none of the metal shields surround the whole card and even if they did I can demonstrate what happens to a compass when a power supply gets to close to another and this is with components much more expensive. some of these sound cards even have plastic. it's purely cosmetic.



ya because every electronic device have a magnetic field (Induction occurs often)

i can only guess they would reduce it but not eliminate it because it is not possible


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 22, 2012)

If you believe EMI shields do nothing, then I suppose you'd have to believe none of the many products made that use it (such as coax and other video cables), or the huge corporations like 3M that manufacture such things as shield tape are a mere hoax.

One of the most common materials used for such shielding is aluminum, which is known for it's ability to reflect electric fields. 

The problem with assessing the usefulness of such things as alu EMI shields on sound cards is it's totally dependent on the quality of parts on the sound card and other components within the system, their distance from one another, and the way the shield is built.


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## BumbleBee (Oct 23, 2012)

I never said I don't believe in EMI shielding. sound cards are designed to be low cost solutions that's the bottom line. Creative is not above decoration.


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 23, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> I never said I don't believe in EMI shielding. sound cards are designed to be low cost solutions that's the bottom line. Creative is not above decoration.



My post about EMI shielding was not at all intended to defend Creative's sound card designs, just something I thought necessary to clarify the basics about shields given what had been said against them.

I also made it clear an EMI shield is only as good as it's design, and that their usefulness depends on the application. It could be argued either way, but the fact is, you can take a lot of products and make them look useful or useless depending how they're made and used.

I've also in fact said in recent posts that Creative if anything uses cookie cutter manufacturing, varying their card generations by little more than mere software, and now firmware in their Recon product.

Are you really surprised the bulk of the Recon DSP is mostly a plastic shroud that does nothing? I suspected it when I first saw them. Why Creative has so many faithful followers is beyond me.

Back on topic, I maintain that this is the best deal in a budget sound card. Then again, I base that on what MY personal first priority would be in buying one, sound quality.
ASUS Xonar DS 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Inter...

If you really want and feel you need gimmicks that enhance quiet sounds to hear footsteps of enemies, Creative isn't exactly the only choice, and using such a feature can become a misleading crutch. When it comes right down to it, good kill/death ratios are built on skill and smart tactics, not gimmicks.


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## BumbleBee (Oct 23, 2012)

Creative has been around since the beginning but hasn't really been the same since Vista. the new Creative Sound Blaster ZxR ($250) looks at least interesting.

http://personalaudio.ru/review/sound-cards/foto_kart_sound_blaster_z_i_zxr_iznutri/

it comes with a daughter board which is the DA converter and a control pod like the Asus Xonar Phoebus


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## RejZoR (Oct 23, 2012)

I'm also waiting for the Sound Blaster ZxR/ZxG. They at least look like a proper flagship soundcard compared to current crappy cheapo Core3D...


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## btarunr (Oct 23, 2012)

Lol this thread isn't about audiophile sound cards. It's about affordable sub-$100 cards that are good for gaming. The Recon3D is as low as $65 on Amazon, and its Scout Mode and CrystalVoice work really well with a lot of FPSes and online games.


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## wat (Oct 24, 2012)

I got a Xonar DX and I highly recommend it. I didn't notice the sound quality too much compared to my integrated, but I really noticed it when using my 5.1 speakers. The sound coming from the rear was just way too quiet compared to the front. The Xonar DX fixed that...


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## BumbleBee (Oct 24, 2012)

RejZoR said:


> I'm also waiting for the Sound Blaster ZxR/ZxG. They at least look like a proper flagship soundcard compared to current crappy cheapo Core3D...



unless the russian site has a prototype.. I don't see any molex connectors. the daughter board even gets powered by the main board.


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## j924 (Oct 24, 2012)

I really like my Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD. It's very overkill for just gaming but I got mine for about 1/3 of normal price from an amazing Newegg sale.


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 25, 2012)

LOL, $250 for a Creative sound card? I would SO get a receiver instead at that price.


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## bamdaman14 (Oct 25, 2012)

Hey guys so I decided to get the asus xonar dg card and so far
It's working great.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 25, 2012)

bamdaman14 said:


> Hey guys so I decided to get the asus xonar dg card and so far
> It's working great.



what drivers?


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## BumbleBee (Oct 25, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> LOL, $250 for a Creative sound card? I would SO get a receiver instead at that price.



$250 doesn't get you a lot in a receiver. I never spend less than $500 on a receiver and it has to be a Marantz or Denon.


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## mDee (Oct 25, 2012)

I used to have a Creative X-Fi Extreme Music. Worked well but I found the drivers and the plethora of software annoying. When ASUS started offering sound cards I gave them a try and bought the Xonar DX. Love it. Stable drivers, easy interface (I'm a bit software retarted ), competitive price, and it sounds great to me. I listen to a lot of movie scores and soundtracks and loved the Xonar more than the Creative. 

At the time the cheaper gamer-oriented Xonars (the DG, DGX, and the DS) weren't out yet, but based on what I know about my DX I'd say those gaming Xonars are good budget buys.


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## Drone (Oct 25, 2012)

> Best sound card for gaming



Actually I always wondered what difference does it really make for gaming? 
Expensive sound for professional audio engineering, some experiments or just for good old audiophiles and for people who just love to listen to some flacs makes sense but how it's for gaming with its drone monotonous music? Maybe it's just beyond my ken lol I dunno.


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## Wile E (Oct 25, 2012)

hat said:


> It's not nonsense, it's the truth. Just a really old truth that's been gone over for years.
> 
> I had a Xonar DG for a while before my friend sent me his old X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro. It was a good card, I liked it... the headphone amp was a nice feature as well. The only other thing I really have to add to this is that I have a friend who swears up and down that you want a PCI-E card, not a PCI card. Something about collisions on the PCI bus and somesuch... not sure if it's better for performance, sound quality or both.
> 
> ...


Actually, a good sound card can be better than either coax or optical. spdif can only do 2 channel uncompressed or multichannel compressed. A good sound card will do 7.1 uncompressed, and has high enough quality analog outputs to actually sound better than compressed spdif. HDMI is the only digital connection that can match the analog output of a good sound card.



eidairaman1 said:


> USB Sound cards



No better than onboard if he's using the digital out.



Hood said:


> Creative has always used cutting edge graphics on their packages and their software looks all futuristic and cool, but the truth is Creative's hardware and software is bottom rung crap that rarely works properly together - witness the dozens of third party drivers that have been written for Creative hardware in an attempt to address these problems.  I used Kx Mixer for my Audigy 2 card just to get it to work in XP.  Nothing I tried would get it to work properly in Win 7.  Yes, it's old hardware, but how hard is it to continue support on your own hardware when each legacy unit that's still in service is a testament to the manufacturers quality and longevity?  Almost every other PC hardware company maintains a driver database to cover any hardware that will still plug into a slot or port, and the O.E.M.'s drivers are almost always the best ones to use.  Not in Creative's case, though - their driver problems are legendary and their  lack of solutions in the face of universal criticism also reveals their total lack of concern for their customers.  Of course, all the above is just my opinion as a long time sufferer.   Yes I could have bought a different brand, but locally only Creative is available and I was young and foolish.  I am now using the on board Realtek ALC892 that came on my Asus P8Z77-V, and it works great using the optical SPDIF at 24 bit 96,000 Hz.  So stay away from Creative and go with any Asus card that fits your budget.



The Audigy2 on my kids' computer works fine in Win7. Worked fine in my rig as well, until I replaced it with the Forte.



Kusuri said:


> I was about to start a thread like this, so I hope it's ok I can get some answers as well in regards to the Asus Xonar cards.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm in the market for a new sound card, as my Auzentech X-Fi Forte started to fail. I was very happy with it for about 2 years until it started giving off random popping noises ...
> 
> ...


My Forte did that for a while too. I just had to clean the slot and reseat it. Your mileage may vary, of course.



BumbleBee said:


> $250 doesn't get you a lot in a receiver. I never spend less than $500 on a receiver and it has to be a Marantz or Denon.



Or in a pinch, Yamaha or Onkyo. Although Onkyo has been slipping steadily in the last few years. 

I'm thinking my next receiver will be Marantz.

As for $250 receviers, they're still better than computer-specific oriented audio products.


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## BumbleBee (Oct 25, 2012)

Drone said:


> Actually I always wondered what difference does it really make for gaming?
> Expensive sound for professional audio engineering, some experiments or just for good old audiophiles and for people who just love to listen to some flacs makes sense but how it's for gaming with its drone monotonous music? Maybe it's just beyond my ken lol I dunno.



the DSP and DAC make it sound better?



Wile E said:


> Or in a pinch, Yamaha or Onkyo. Although Onkyo has been slipping steadily in the last few years.
> 
> I'm thinking my next receiver will be Marantz.
> 
> As for $250 receviers, they're still better than computer-specific oriented audio products.



anything is better than computer audio products 

I don't like Yamaha proprietary technologies or the way Onkyo designs their receivers. it's a personal thing.


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## KingPing (Oct 25, 2012)

Drone said:


> Actually I always wondered what difference does it really make for gaming?
> Expensive sound for professional audio engineering, some experiments or just for good old audiophiles and for people who just love to listen to some flacs makes sense but how it's for gaming with its drone monotonous music? Maybe it's just beyond my ken lol I dunno.





 Games sound better (if the games has good sound), better surround effects than onboard for 5.1/7.1 speakers, voices sound clearer. In games like CS you can hear the footsteps very clearly and have a pretty good idea where the enemy is, it's almost like cheating if the other person isn't using a similar setup, the same applies for explosions, etc. The amount of sound effects you can hear in Arma 2 is amazing. 

 I mostly use headphones (Audio Technica ATH A700 or a Razer Carcharias) using a Creative Titanium HD.


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 25, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> $250 doesn't get you a lot in a receiver. I never spend less than $500 on a receiver and it has to be a Marantz or Denon.



It does if you know when and where to make your purchase. At the right time of year with the right vendor you can get receivers for close to half the full price. It gets even better if you look for deals on last year's models. Receivers can be had at discount prices much easier than sound cards can because it's such a bigger market.

It also depends quite a lot on what brands you shop for on anything that retails for $600 or less. In that price range Pioneer rules on sound quality. They're also 2nd best to Yamaha on reliability.

As for Denon and Marantz, they're both owned and made by the same company and Denon has been in financial trouble since some of their higher end retail vendors dropped business with them. 

Denon went on a binge to offer low priced models and sell all their product at numerous vendors, including some online ones that were undercutting prices of retail stores drastically, which is what caused some retail vendors to stop doing biz with them.

Another thing that is hurting Denon is they've made their product in such a way that it heats up too easily and causes parts to burn out. I've encountered numerous complaints about this and the support afterwards, esp now that Denon is hurting, is not so good.

There are actually guys in the biz of buying used Denons for cheap, installing several fans inside them, and making a slight profit off them with no warranty because Denon has such a huge fanbase despite the problems they've had. IMO that just makes it obvious they're poorly designed. 

Onkyo used to have such problems, but they've redesigned their latest models to run much cooler, but then I've also noticed Onkyo no longer has any models under $850 with MultEQ like they used to. Likely a tradeoff of affording the retooling. I doubt Denon could even afford such a retooling at this point, and the sad thing is, they may bring Marantz down with them if things don't improve.

The fact is if you pay upwards $600 or more, a lot of receivers sound good, esp if you buy $1000+ units on sale for that price. Even Best Buy Magnolia has closed out Yamaha RX-A1010s for $600. I don't think most gamers are going to want to spend $600 or more on a receiver though, and it's just not necessary. I've heard first hand what a drastic improvement even sub $300 receivers can yield over even decent sound cards.

One thing a lot of people seem fooled by is thinking that a $250+ sound card is going to give you the fullest quality of sound it's capable of, but the PC speakers most use with them bring the sound quality back down due to their cheaply made amps. There's also not even enough room on a sound card to use the components necessary to really give you full sound.


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## BumbleBee (Oct 25, 2012)

Pioneer outsources a lot of their products to other companies. Pioneer does not make their own receivers. I don't like the Onkyo design period. I have never had a problem with Marantz or Denon receivers. I like the technologies they license and i'm familiar with their designs and interfaces. 

I spend no less than $500 because my receivers end up being nothing more than a surround sound processor, HDMI switch box and pre-amp. I always have separates connected to it like a power amplifier and video processor.


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## m1dg3t (Oct 26, 2012)

Whats wrong with YPAO? Works just as good as audyssey, if not better lol. Or is the "CinemaDSP" not up to par? Yamaha & Pioneer make some great units! Audio is very subjective but you definately can't go wrong with a quality unit from any of those mfg's. Denon/Marantz included...

Edit: Regarding getting deals; usually around christmas/boxing day, end of the year you can get wicked deals! I have many times saved over half retail on items


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## BumbleBee (Oct 26, 2012)

m1dg3t said:


> Whats wrong with YPAO? Works just as good as audyssey, if not better lol. Or is the "CinemaDSP" not up to par? Yamaha & Pioneer make some great units! Audio is very subjective but you definately can't go wrong with a quality unit from any of those mfg's. Denon/Marantz included...
> 
> Edit: Regarding getting deals; usually around christmas/boxing day, end of the year you can get wicked deals! I have many times saved over half retail on items



Audyssey is more advanced. it has more filters and listening positions. I only use it after I measure and treat my rooms.


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 26, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> Pioneer outsources a lot of their products to other companies. Pioneer does not make their own receivers. I don't like the Onkyo design period. I have never had a problem with Marantz or Denon receivers. I like the technologies they license and i'm familiar with their designs and interfaces.
> 
> I spend no less than $500 because my receivers end up being nothing more than a surround sound processor, HDMI switch box and pre-amp. I always have separates connected to it like a power amplifier and video processor.



Outsourcing is required to offer the sound and build quality Pioneer does at the price you can get them for, and if it's done responsibly, all it results in is a more affordable product. Their huge dominance in market share of the under $600 price range is a strong indication they have what others lack in the mainstream (eg affordable) market niche. Even Rotel outsources. That's how they can afford to put high grade Japanese parts including toroidal transformers in their units. It's done well though with Rotel overseeing production. Funny you should mention outsourcing though when Yamaha and Pioneer choose to make their own calibration software vs merely paying royalties on someone else's

I can understand why many hesitate where Pioneer is concerned though, because their display, navigation, remote and presets are terrible. Those whom are familiar with how to get good sound at a good price generally also know how much if not most of that can be avoided by merely avoiding presets and using the AV Navigator app though.

I don't really like Onkyos either, I was just exampling them because they've had similar problems Denon has and also are another brand that uses Audyssey. The difference however is Onkyo realized they needed to resolve their problems with a much needed redesign. I know there are Denon diehards that have no problems, but it seems for every one of those there's 2 or 3 others that are sick of out of warranty expenses, and it's clear why as I stated above.

I considered Marantz at one point, but I don't like that they're merged with the struggling Denon, they're affordable units are low power, and their latest non Slimline models have ridiculously tiny portal window displays that look like something you'd see on Capt Nemo's sub. I also don't feel Audyssey is as big a deal as the fanatics make it out to be. Sure it has more features you can tweak, that's the main thing people rave about with it. IMO though a software calibrator is not doing it's job properly if you HAVE to tweak it a lot after a calibration. Audyssey is probably the most over-hyped product in the receiver market.

Your last paragraph makes it even less of a point to spend a lot on a receiver.


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## BumbleBee (Oct 26, 2012)

i'm not talking about outsourcing electronic components. i'm talking about a whole product and putting your name on it. Pioneer Elite brand is not what it used to be. 

i've been building home theaters for almost 13 years. 2 weeks ago you barely had a grasp on digital audio. now your an expert.


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## Hood (Oct 26, 2012)

Back in 2001 when I was building my first computer room, I had a Yamaha amp and speakers that was one of the first ones made for PC audio.  I forget the model number, but it was about $200 and sounded better than anything else made for PCs.  Now I use a $300 Sony surround recieiver with 5 Boston Micro90X series and one of their 200w subs, sourcing from on board Realtek ALC892 Toslink SPDIF.  I mostly listen to 24 bit 96 KHz audio now, hi-res vinyl rips, and the built-in mobo audio is surprisingly clean and detailed (using optical link); I have no need for fancy audio cards or USB DAC's, at least not until I buy amps and speakers capable of appreciating them.


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## Wile E (Oct 26, 2012)

*@BumbleBee, m1dg3t, Frag Maniac:*

Pioneer doesn't have nearly the same output and THD as the other 4 mentioned, even when rated the same, at the same price point.

Onkyo, Denon, Marantz, Yamaha and even Harmon Kardon are all always underrated from the factory. Pioneer is usually exactly what they claim. They just don't have the bang for the buck as the others. Your money is much better spent on the other 5 brands.

That's not to say Pioneer is terrible or anything, just that they simply aren't as good, period.

As for heat, Pioneer doesn't put out as much because they simply don't have as much power. And Denons don't really heat up much. My Onkyos (SR606 and HT270) run way hotter than the ex's AVR-2312. 

Granted, I do have to fix the HDMI daughter board on the 606, thus my comment about their products going downhill for a while there. That's also the reason I run analog out from my Forte to it. Once I fix it, I'll be using the HDMI audio off of my 580.

Good DSPs are essential to properly tuning for the nuances of a room. I am satisfied working with any of the 5 brands I mentioned. They get the job done for me. I also don't have true high-fi speakers. I have mid-fi speakers (Polk TSi series all around, Infinity subs), so that may play into why they all work fine for me.



Hood said:


> Back in 2001 when I was building my first computer room, I had a Yamaha amp and speakers that was one of the first ones made for PC audio.  I forget the model number, but it was about $200 and sounded better than anything else made for PCs.  Now I use a $300 Sony surround recieiver with 5 Boston Micro90X series and one of their 200w subs, sourcing from on board Realtek ALC892 Toslink SPDIF.  I mostly listen to 24 bit 96 KHz audio now, hi-res vinyl rips, and the built-in mobo audio is surprisingly clean and detailed (using optical link); I have no need for fancy audio cards or USB DAC's, at least not until I buy amps and speakers capable of appreciating them.



That's fine for 2 channel audio. Go surround, and you'll start to see where the on-board is lacking.


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 26, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> i'm not talking about outsourcing electronic components. i'm talking about a whole product and putting your name on it. Pioneer Elite brand is not what it used to be.
> 
> i've been building home theaters for almost 13 years. 2 weeks ago you barely had a grasp on digital audio. now your an expert.



Outsourcing is outsourcing whether it's parts or entire builds. What matters is who designs them and oversees production. You really think outsourcing isn't common in this day and age, really?

You can say almost any brand "isn't what it used to be", after all that's "progress". Check most any reputable AV forum like AVS though and you will see Yamaha and Pioneer consistently being mentioned as THE most reliable brands.

Your experience in HT seems to have done little more than send you down the almighty path of self righteousness and bias. I've met far too many HT installers that bias themselves towards the gear that makes integration and setup the easiest for themselves short term, like LG displays for instance. Doesn't mean they're the best. 

And WTF are you talking about with the barely having a grasp on HD audio bull crap smack talk? You sound like one of the all too many digital is best fanatics. Digital is what ruined audio, get a clue.

@Wile,
Odd you should imply the DSP is the most important part because in the price range I mentioned, that is where Pioneer clearly leads in opening up the midrange, while others sound rather flat and lifeless.

All those competing brands mentioned lean more toward digital HT sound. Pioneer is the only one that in affordable price ranges can play music as well without sounding too digital. They're also the only ones putting out D class amps that don't sound as artificial with music as others do.


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## BumbleBee (Oct 26, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> Outsourcing is outsourcing whether it's parts or entire builds. What matters is who designs them and oversees production. You really think outsourcing isn't common in this day and age, really?
> 
> You can say almost any brand "isn't what it used to be", after all that's "progress". Check most any reputable AV forum like AVS though and you will see Yamaha and Pioneer consistently being mentioned as THE most reliable brands.
> 
> ...



I'm a home theater enthusiast. I always upgrade my separates. I don't keep them for 5-10 years like average consumers so reliability is not an issue and none of them are outsourced.


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 26, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> I'm a home theater enthusiast. I always upgrade my separates. I don't keep them for 5-10 years like average consumers so reliability is not an issue and none of them are outsourced.



I've come to know the word "enthusiast" as meaning anything from trial and error tinkerer to the equivalent of a free sample tester, and in and of itself the word means little more than hobbyist really.

I also fail to see any weight in your insults aimed at my level of HD audio knowledge when you don't even acknowledge the well known problems with your beloved Denon brand. The mention of you're seeing a $250 Creative card as "interesting" kinda tells it all really.

Denon is struggling and for the very reasons I exampled. I've had a Magnolia Hi Fi salesman try to hard sell me a demo Denon without remote by adding a yr on the warranty. He even tried to make is sound like Denon's warranty was 3 yrs.

It's clear that Denon has even some of their higher end vendors stooping to unethical business just to get some of their product out the door, because by now many have heard of their problems and don't trust them like they used to.

Thus it's really hard to swallow this outsourced talk as if it's been a big problem, because Pioneer isn't the brand at the bottom of the reliability barrel. There's such a thing as paying too much attention to the hype and not enough to the common sense things.


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## BumbleBee (Oct 26, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> I've come to know the word "enthusiast" as meaning anything from trial and error tinkerer to the equivalent of a free sample tester, and in and of itself the word means little more than hobbyist really.
> 
> I also fail to see any weight in your insults aimed at my level of HD audio knowledge when you don't even acknowledge the well known problems with your beloved Denon brand. The mention of you're seeing a $250 Creative card as "interesting" kinda tells it all really.
> 
> ...



I have $4500 in HiFi on my desktop. I got 2", 4" 703 and 705 traps in my office and a 6" 705 cloud above my head. I assure you i'm committed to the cause. a lot of people in my family are audiophiles and home theater enthusiast. it goes back to the Victrola. i'm going to school to take audio production and technology and electronic engineering in hopes of starting my own company one day.

yes I think the Creative Sound Blaster ZxR is interesting. don't shop at Best Buy.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Oct 26, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> I never said I don't believe in EMI shielding. sound cards are designed to be low cost solutions that's the bottom line. Creative is not above decoration.



I'd be curious to know if they really do nothing. The shield on the HD actually works and only a portion of that is metal. The window is plastic and that's right over the core. Even if it's mostly plastic it could have some sort of additive.


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## BumbleBee (Oct 26, 2012)

try removing the shield on your sound card and tell me if you hear a difference.


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## Wile E (Oct 26, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> Outsourcing is outsourcing whether it's parts or entire builds. What matters is who designs them and oversees production. You really think outsourcing isn't common in this day and age, really?
> 
> You can say almost any brand "isn't what it used to be", after all that's "progress". Check most any reputable AV forum like AVS though and you will see Yamaha and Pioneer consistently being mentioned as THE most reliable brands.
> 
> ...


I didn't imply Pioneer had poor DSP or the DSP was the most important aspect. I said it's an important tool for home theater setup. I was making a general statement, and saying that I have no preference over whose I use. I didn't mention Pioneer, because it never made it past the music tests for me, so I never used their DSPs. More on that below.

And I'm sorry, but Pioneer being the only one to play music without sounding "too digital" is a complete crock of shit. I listen to music flac through mine constantly, and used to listen to vinyl through it all the time too (need a new turntable), and trust me, no Pioneer out there does any better. Pioneers color the sound. If I wanted to color the sound of my music, I'd add the color myself. I don't. I want accuracy. I want to hear it the way it was intended to be heard. Pioneer does not deliver. It gives the music "life" by making it inaccurate.

In the same price range, the other 5 brands outshine Pioneer in almost every way, including music reproduction. Pioneer may have great DSPs, but their amplifiers are lacking, plain and simple. I got this by sampling these receivers on my speakers personally, not by some third party reviews. I went with the Onkyos both times, because they matched the other 4 I mentioned in clarity and accuracy, but were on sale and cheaper at the time. Your output is only as good as the weakest link in the signal chain.


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## BumbleBee (Oct 26, 2012)

there are friendlier, less neurotic places than AVSForums and Head-Fi.

Marantz has a warm sound signature. it's very musical. hardly lifeless.


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## Wile E (Oct 26, 2012)

Speakers play a major role in the life of your music as well.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Oct 29, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> try removing the shield on your sound card and tell me if you hear a difference.



I wouldn't. You'd need a card like a 670 that's known to give off enough EMI to screw with soundcards.


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## BumbleBee (Oct 29, 2012)

sorry baby I was being sarcastic 

people have already done it.. lol


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## Jhelms (Oct 29, 2012)

I use an E-MU 0204 pluged into a Project Sunrise II hybrid tube headphone amplifier. Headphones are Sennheiser HD650's. Same setup I use for Music


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## BumbleBee (Oct 29, 2012)

awesome


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## Frag_Maniac (Oct 30, 2012)

Implying price paid for gear = knowledge is kinda silly really, esp when you admit you've yet to get any schooling on the subject and are obviously brand biased. I only mention Pioneer as being less flat sounding in the lower price ranges, not as an across the board superior brand. I'm not here to dispute the $600 plus units because I don't shop in that range, nor do most. 

The mainstream, esp in a stressed economy is the under $600 units, and that's where Pioneer's DSPs definitely breathe more spaciousness and depth into the midrange, and that is largely, despite outsourcing, what's kept them one of the largest selling brands in that price range. Marantz units start at $400, and at that price you aren't going to get the quality of sound their higher priced units have, or much power for that matter. Their Slimline models have a mere 50 watts per channel.

I take what so called "audiophiles" say about sound coloring with a grain of salt, because what they don't get, and aren't familiar with, is how muted, muffled and constrained midrange is in most lower priced AVRs, because they never shop in that price range. Coloring or not, subtle DSP programming can considerably open up the detail and spaciousness of the midrange in lower priced AVRs, where it would otherwise sound almost non present in some respects.

The "audiophile's" answer of course is to throw money at it, often considerable amounts. Not everyone can or wants to do that depending on their budget and/or needs. I'm sure some spend far more than it's worth to get schooling on sound design only to end up just getting knowledge that serves those that buy expensive gear, while the majority go on being the mainstream and ignore them and their holy than though attitudes.


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## KingPing (Oct 30, 2012)

Why this is in the General hardware section?, shouldn't this be in the Audio section or i am missing something?


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## Wile E (Oct 31, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> Implying price paid for gear = knowledge is kinda silly really, esp when you admit you've yet to get any schooling on the subject and are obviously brand biased. I only mention Pioneer as being less flat sounding in the lower price ranges, not as an across the board superior brand. I'm not here to dispute the $600 plus units because I don't shop in that range, nor do most.
> 
> The mainstream, esp in a stressed economy is the under $600 units, and that's where Pioneer's DSPs definitely breathe more spaciousness and depth into the midrange, and that is largely, despite outsourcing, what's kept them one of the largest selling brands in that price range. Marantz units start at $400, and at that price you aren't going to get the quality of sound their higher priced units have, or much power for that matter. Their Slimline models have a mere 50 watts per channel.
> 
> ...


I wasn't aware we were referring to the lower end of the spectrum. I was referring to the "budget for an enthusiast" part of the spectrum.

I can't comment on most low end, as I don't buy there. I've only heard some Sonys, Onkyos, and one Pioneer. Sony was a joke. I still preferred the Onkyos, but I did only hear the one Pioneer. The thing about that is, however, at the new model switch you can typically get the mid range Onkyos for the low range prices. The moral of the story here is, wait until you can get a deal.

I, also, can't comment on most true high end, because I just haven't heard most of them, other than a handful in a couple showrooms . (Which is how I found out about, and fell in love with, Paradigm speakers. Man I want some.)


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## KingPing (Oct 31, 2012)

Wile E said:


> Sony was a joke.



May i ask why?, it may be useful in the future


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## m1dg3t (Oct 31, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> Audyssey is more advanced. it has more filters and listening positions. I only use it after I measure and treat my rooms.



I have this in my living room http://ca.yamaha.com/en/product_archive/audio-visual/dsp-z7_black__b/?mode=model and this in my bedroom http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v1900_black__u/?mode=model but the Canadian version >> HTR 6290

Neither of them are lacking and i would easily put them against your Denon/Marantz or any other AVR for that matter. I don't need 3D capability.



BumbleBee said:


> I have $4500 in HiFi on my desktop. I got 2", 4" 703 and 705 traps in my office and a 6" 705 cloud above my head. I assure you i'm committed to the cause. a lot of people in my family are audiophiles and home theater enthusiast. it goes back to the Victrola. i'm going to school to take audio production and technology and electronic engineering in hopes of starting my own company one day.
> 
> yes I think the Creative Sound Blaster ZxR is interesting. don't shop at Best Buy.



You sure you want to play the numbers game BumbleBee?



Frag Maniac said:


> Implying price paid for gear = knowledge is kinda silly really, esp when you admit you've yet to get any schooling on the subject and are obviously brand biased. I only mention Pioneer as being less flat sounding in the lower price ranges, not as an across the board superior brand. I'm not here to dispute the $600 plus units because I don't shop in that range, nor do most.
> 
> The mainstream, esp in a stressed economy is the under $600 units, and that's where Pioneer's DSPs definitely breathe more spaciousness and depth into the midrange, and that is largely, despite outsourcing, what's kept them one of the largest selling brands in that price range. Marantz units start at $400, and at that price you aren't going to get the quality of sound their higher priced units have, or much power for that matter. Their Slimline models have a mere 50 watts per channel.
> 
> ...



Agreed, as with many of your comments regarding this topic. The most important thing i have learned in my AudioQuest (Shameless plug of Elitist gear lol) is that there are more AudioFools than Audiophiles in the world


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## m1dg3t (Oct 31, 2012)

KingPing said:


> May i ask why?, it may be useful in the future



Not all Sony is crap, Japanese made Sony ES gear is highly sought after by some enthusiasts


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## Kalevalen (Oct 31, 2012)

I use the  tX-USBexp made by SOtm  but then you still need a DAC  like the dX-USB HD.
http://sotm-audio.com/english/products/dx-usb_hd.php

Or for a more budget HT-Omega, ASUS Xonar


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## SaltyFish (Nov 1, 2012)

Any real internal X-Fi sound card would do you good for gaming. Creative's XtremeAudio line, the Auzentech X-Fi Bravura, and Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 are some of the false ones, as they're software emulated. The USB cards are meh. An interesting note is that Gigabyte's G1 motherboards (except the lowest end one) comes with an X-Fi chip on-board.

After that, you'll need some decent speakers or headphones.

Even if you get a nice sound card and output equipment for gaming, the biggest roadblock is Vista's killing of hardware audio. It means that games since then don't really take advantage of sound cards anymore. Windows 8 is supposed to have restored that, but I've read conflicting reports on that. Regardless of that, it's great for older (pre-Vista) games.


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## Wile E (Nov 1, 2012)

m1dg3t said:


> Not all Sony is crap, Japanese made Sony ES gear is highly sought after by some enthusiasts



Sony = crap was in reference to their bottom line units.


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## Dent1 (Nov 1, 2012)

SaltyFish said:


> Any real internal X-Fi sound card would do you good for gaming. Creative's XtremeAudio line, the Auzentech X-Fi Bravura, and Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 are some of



The Auzentech X-Fi Bravura is better than the X-Fi Xtreme Audio. Ok the Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 is average, granted.




SaltyFish said:


> It means that games since then don't really take advantage of sound cards anymore. Windows 8 is supposed to have restored that, but I've read conflicting reports on that.




I doubt that, Microsoft made a firm decision to remove Direct Sound hardware support in support for OpenAL which allows fair competition for soundcard manufacturers and less of this Creative Lab monopoly jacking up the prices for subpar and buggy hardware.



SaltyFish said:


> Regardless of that, it's great for older (pre-Vista) games.



What is the point in that? It's not like we are going to be running windows XP.


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## Jhelms (Nov 1, 2012)

RejZoR said:


> I'm also waiting for the Sound Blaster ZxR/ZxG. They at least look like a proper flagship soundcard compared to current crappy cheapo Core3D...



I see Nichicon FG caps... very good caps. I use them in my own amplifier designs.


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## KingPing (Nov 1, 2012)

It's a shame the only card worth buying is the flagship one. Still i don't like the 3D core, i will keep my Titanium HD for now.


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