# 5 months old SSD hot at 63º average and only 78% health



## qwak (May 21, 2020)

It's quite new (5 months) and wasn't so hot before. I just reset Windows and checked on different days so it's too hot always.

It is a SK hynix BC501 SSD that comes in a HP laptop that I got some months ago. Also, the health is only 78% when it should be 100%.

When I start the laptop in the morning it is at 30º and jumps to 65º in a minute.

EDIT: I got it refurbished from Amazon sold by Amazon and I run the tests on arrival and said the SSD had like 500GB usage and 30 hours on. I can send it to repair for free or refund, that's no problem, my concern is if I can still use it without risk of damage of other components until Amazon reopens the repair service which is suspended until COVID passes and so on. I am super happy with it for the great price (value 600€ but paid 380€) and don't want to return it. I also have a quite new EVO 860 in my older laptop that I can always use. The laptop is a HP 15-db0045ns. 


Here go the screenshots. Any suggestion?


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## xtreemchaos (May 21, 2020)

lappy ssds do get warmer than in a desktop but yours is on another level, my lappys gets to about 50c after a long day, id deff say theres something not right, id back up and be looking for another ssd but saying that its still saying the ssd good, its a tricky one bro. maybe a duff sensor.


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## btarunr (May 21, 2020)

If a new SSD has 10 TB lifetime writes, then it's very likely a refurbished SSD. Whoever refurbished it thought flashing the user area or rewriting the firmware would do the trick (it doesn't reset SMART counters).

Here's my WD Black, which I popped out of its box and started using in January 2019. With my super heavy use that involves several game reinstalls, gigabytes of images, temporary files, etc., per weekday, I only managed to burn 12.8 TB into my drive.





So I'm fairly sure you've been punked. Return the drive.


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## Assimilator (May 21, 2020)

qwak said:


> Any suggestion?



10TB lifetime writes on a "quite new" drive is a dead giveaway that you've been scammed. Return it.

edit: bta beat me to it.

The fact that the drive is so hot likely means that the controller is working overtime, probably because it's reorganising blocks away from failing NAND cells due to all the writes. Regardless, it's a ticking time bomb. Return it.


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## qwak (May 21, 2020)

xtreemchaos said:


> lappy ssds do get warmer than in a desktop but yours is on another level, my lappys gets to about 50c after a long day, id deff say theres something not right, id back up and be looking for another ssd but saying that its still saying the ssd good, its a tricky one bro. maybe a duff sensor.





btarunr said:


> If a new SSD has 10 TB lifetime writes, then it's very likely a refurbished SSD. Whoever refurbished it thought flashing the user area or rewriting the firmware would do the trick (it doesn't reset SMART counters).
> 
> Here's my WD Black, which I popped out of its box and started using in January 2019. With my super heavy use that involves several game reinstalls, gigabytes of images, temporary files, etc., per weekday, I only managed to burn 12.8 TB into my drive.
> 
> ...





Assimilator said:


> 10TB lifetime writes on a "quite new" drive is a dead giveaway that you've been scammed. Return it.
> 
> edit: bta beat me to it.
> 
> The fact that the drive is so hot likely means that the controller is working overtime, probably because it's reorganising blocks away from failing NAND cells due to all the writes. Regardless, it's a ticking time bomb. Return it.


Thanks a lot for the replies. I download huge amounts of data every day and actually I have it for 5 months already (just checked) and when I got it the tests showed no use and perfect state. So if the major concern is the abnormal 10TB, that's probably my usage.

For the rest, the temperature can be lowered somehow? Thanks a lot. (I attached new tests screenshots in the first post showing it's ok)



btarunr said:


> If a new SSD has 10 TB lifetime writes, then it's very likely a refurbished SSD. Whoever refurbished it thought flashing the user area or rewriting the firmware would do the trick (it doesn't reset SMART counters).
> 
> Here's my WD Black, which I popped out of its box and started using in January 2019. With my super heavy use that involves several game reinstalls, gigabytes of images, temporary files, etc., per weekday, I only managed to burn 12.8 TB into my drive.
> 
> ...


Actually it was refurbished from Amazon indeed, sold by Amazon itself, and the question is that the price was so much chaeaper that I'm still very happy with it and will not be worth to return it as I hace another Samsung 860 Evo SSD from my older laptop which is fairly new too.

However, I run all these tests when I first received this laptop and it was fine temperature, 100% health and 500GB usage.

So, you say that someone did some trick to hide a much bigger usage with some software trick and now it's been revealed?

In any event, I can get the EVO from the older laptop but the problem is that this new one is closed, it has no access to the disk, meaning I'd need to take the risk of forcing it and try to replace it with my low knowledge and it is risky in many ways.

I am extremely happy with the laptop for the price I paid, my main concern is if it can stop working or I can go ahead with this temperature indefinetely.

THANKS!!

*EDIT: Actually... I only download around 10GB a day, which in 5 months means like 150 days x 10GB = 1500GB = 1,5TB... very far from the 10TB...

Do you know if there can be something downloading without my knowledge such as that bitcoin mining thing (I know nothing about it)


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## Chrispy_ (May 21, 2020)

btarunr said:


> If a new SSD has 10 TB lifetime writes, then it's very likely a refurbished SSD. Whoever refurbished it thought flashing the user area or rewriting the firmware would do the trick (it doesn't reset SMART counters).
> 
> Here's my WD Black, which I popped out of its box and started using in January 2019. With my super heavy use that involves several game reinstalls, gigabytes of images, temporary files, etc., per weekday, I only managed to burn 12.8 TB into my drive.
> 
> So I'm fairly sure you've been punked. Return the drive.


what's the endurance rating on your WD Black? Hopefully more than 10TB ;D


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## btarunr (May 21, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> what's the endurance rating on your WD Black? Hopefully more than 10TB ;D


300 TBW rated by WDC.


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## mstenholm (May 21, 2020)

qwak said:


> Do you know if there can be something downloading without my knowledge such as that bitcoin mining thing (I know nothing about it)


Girl friend/wife.   Not mining, you would know with to constant 100% CPU/GPU load.


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## Regeneration (May 21, 2020)

My primary workstation SSD has 10TB writes and been using it for 710 days.


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## qwak (May 21, 2020)

mstenholm said:


> Girl friend/wife.   Not mining, you would know with to constant 100% CPU/GPU load.


Lol. Tak for det. Det er umuligt, jeg bor stadig med mine forældre 

Please guys, is it dangerous to use it at 63º average or it's OK as long as it doesn't go over 70º? Should I try to change it for my EVO 860 or can I not bother with it by now?

THANKS


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## TheLostSwede (May 21, 2020)

qwak said:


> Lol. Tak for det. Det er umuligt, jeg bor stadig med mine forældre
> 
> Please guys, is it dangerous to use it at 63º average or it's OK as long as it doesn't go over 70º? Should I try to change it for my EVO 860 or can I not bother with it by now?
> 
> THANKS


The temperature isn't an issue, in fact, the NAND flash itself has better data retention at high speeds, as long as the drive gets to cool down before you power it off. So maybe invest in one of those ugly laptop coolers to leave it on for 10 minutes before you power off your notebook?
I suggest you read this article.








						The Truth About SSD Data Retention
					






					www.anandtech.com
				




That said, obviously the SSD controller will throttle at high temperatures, which means slower write speeds.


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## qwak (May 21, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> The temperature isn't an issue, in fact, the NAND flash itself has better data retention at high speeds, as long as the drive gets to cool down before you power it off. So maybe invest in one of those ugly laptop coolers to leave it on for 10 minutes before you power off your notebook?
> I suggest you read this article.
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, so it's not dangerous I understand, just maybe lower performance, but I'm happy with it anyway. 

Tack så mycket 

*EDIT: Hey guys, sorry to ask again but I started downloading stuff and the temperature raised to 77º stable, that is dangerous, isn't it?


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## Assimilator (May 21, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> The Truth About SSD Data Retention
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Did _you_ read that article? It's only applicable to drives *that have reached their maximum amount of data written*.



qwak said:


> Ok, so it's not dangerous I understand, just maybe lower performance, but I'm happy with it anyway.
> 
> Tack så mycket
> 
> *EDIT: Hey guys, sorry to ask again but I started downloading stuff and the temperature raised to 77º stable, that is dangerous, isn't it?



Yes, SSDs are generally rated at up to 70º C. *Replace the damn thing already unless you like losing your data.*


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## AsRock (May 21, 2020)

What does HDS say in the temp section ?, that might show how long this has been going on for ( daily and Average ), although you only have 32 days of info but still.


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## qwak (May 21, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Did _you_ read that article? It's only applicable to drives *that have reached their maximum amount of data written*.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, SSDs are generally rated at up to 70º C. *Replace the damn thing already unless you like losing your data.*


But the only risk is losing my data or it can damage other components? 

Because I really have no data to lose, all stuff is in the cloud, I just have videos and music and games.

My concern is mostly the risk of hurting other hardware components.



AsRock said:


> What does HDS say in the temp section ?, that might show how long this has been going on for ( daily and Average ), although you only have 32 days of info but still.


You mean this?


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## Bill_Bright (May 21, 2020)

Your SSD temps are up there but I agree, are not, by themselves, your problem - not when your CPU is sitting at 51°C. That is, I don't believe your SSD temps are causing your problems. I think there is a problem with your SSD causing your high SSD temps. 

I also agree it looks like you got ripped off. Note that is 10TB writes in just 32 days. With only 32 days, the health should easily still be at 100% too. 



qwak said:


> But the only risk is losing my data or it can damage other components?


Well, never say never. It is always possible the failure in one electronic device can result in a "cascade" event where the failed device takes out other connected devices. But probable? No. 



qwak said:


> It's quite new and wasn't so hot before.


How new?


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## P4-630 (May 21, 2020)

Bill_Bright said:


> How new?





qwak said:


> I have it for 5 months already (just checked) and when I got it the tests showed no use and perfect state. So if the major concern is the abnormal 10TB, that's probably my usage.


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## Aquinus (May 21, 2020)

qwak said:


> Thanks a lot for the replies. I download huge amounts of data every day and actually I have it for 5 months already (just checked) and when I got it the tests showed no use and perfect state. So if the major concern is the abnormal 10TB, that's probably my usage.


What in the world are you doing with the SSD where you're writing that much? Each of the 120GB SATA SSDs in my tower have >40,000 hours of on time, but only 14.2TB worth of writes each and you're saying that you've done that in just 5 months and that when you got it, everything was low?

Just for clarity, that's like writing about 60GB every single day for 5 months. That seems excessive under most situations.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you use this machine for?


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## TheLostSwede (May 21, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> Did _you_ read that article? It's only applicable to drives *that have reached their maximum amount of data written*.



The write temperature is still correct though, no? The NAND flash doesn't take damage from high temperatures, unless you go beyond the rated temperature of the NAND itself. I think you skimmed that article a bit as well...


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## newtekie1 (May 21, 2020)

qwak said:


> Thanks a lot for the replies. I download huge amounts of data every day and actually I have it for 5 months already (just checked) and when I got it the tests showed no use and perfect state. So if the major concern is the abnormal 10TB, that's probably my usage.



I think the health issue is related to the drive being almost full and you writing a lot to it.  I assume you are downloading and deleting a lot of data.  You have less than 25% of the drive free, which is going to drastically limit the controller's ability to wear level when writing to the drive.  This means it is going to have to write to the same flash cells a lot more than a drive that isn't a full. So the small amount of cells that it can write to are going to wear out faster.



Bill_Bright said:


> I also agree it looks like you got ripped off. Note that is 10TB writes in just 32 days. With only 32 days, the health should easily still be at 100% too.



Try reading some of his posts.  He said when he got the drive it was in fact sold as refurbished, he check then and it was only 500GB written, he downloads a lot of data to the drive each day, he recently did a Windows refresh(which writes a ton of data to the drive), and power on cycles are 564 which means he's either hibernating or shutting down the laptop a lot and each time that's all the contents of RAM being written to the SSD.


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## qwak (May 21, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> What in the world are you doing with the SSD where you're writing that much? Each of the 120GB SATA SSDs in my tower have >40,000 hours of on time, but only 14.2TB worth of writes each and you're saying that you've done that in just 5 months and that when you got it, everything was low?
> 
> Just for clarity, that's like writing about 60GB every single day for 5 months. That seems excessive under most situations.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, what do you use this machine for?



Sure, I explained this before. Something is not right. When I received from Amazon (refurbished) I run the HD tests and they said it had only like 500GB usage and something like 30 hours on.

I just use it for normal home and entertainment use, I download movies, games, etc, I watch a lot of youtube, sometimes Amazon Prime Video... not a big deal, and was estimating around 10 GB per day, which is certainly much higher than reality, maybe just 5 GB per day average, so my estimations must be totally short and wrong and it's not my own usage. That is why I wasked if there can be some sort of trick to hide the real usage that has come to light now for some reason, like tricking the kilometers counter of an old car. Is this possible?

So the question is that after a month or so I had to send it back to Amazon to repair because the touchpad and keyboard weren't working and they fixed it. Maybe they changed the SSD for an older one and I didn't notice. This laptop costs 600€ new and I paid only 380€ and I am super happy assuming that Amazon covers 2 years guarantee and they fixed it for free. Its very light, slim, fast.. so I take some defects. Additionally I happen to have an EVO 860 quite new too in my older laptop, so not much is lost if I have to replace it but Amazon told me they would fix this one too when the COVID thing passes and they resume working (everything is closed here for 2 months and a half).

Do you know if something other than bitcoins mining can be using my SSD without me noticing? My CPU temp is usually low around 45º-50º, but it's true that the fan runs too often for unknow reasons, and in that noise moment I always check the task manager and it's always normal at 40-50% RAM and normal CPU %, so it's kind of a mystery but maybe the CPU or motherboard are damaged too. It would be great to find out as Amazon still offers me repair and refund and still have 19 months guarantee.

MANY THANKS for your help to all of you!!


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## Regeneration (May 21, 2020)

Bitcoin mining doesn't use 10TB of bandwidth. It is possible to fake SMART data.

Something is either wrong with the drive, or you just keep writing and delete data nonstop, or it was the Amazon people.


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## GreiverBlade (May 21, 2020)

78% on a new SSD after 5 month is fishy ... even my 7yrs old 120gb OS drive is at 97% (26tb read 36tb write)




Regeneration said:


> Something is either wrong with the drive, or you just keep writing and delete data nonstop.


very very verrrryyyy wrong imho


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## qwak (May 21, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> I think the health issue is related to the drive being almost full and you writing a lot to it.  I assume you are downloading and deleting a lot of data.  You have less than 25% of the drive free, which is going to drastically limit the controller's ability to wear level when writing to the drive.  This means it is going to have to write to the same flash cells a lot more than a drive that isn't a full. So the small amount of cells that it can write to are going to wear out faster.
> 
> 
> 
> Try reading some of his posts.  He said when he got the drive it was in fact sold as refurbished, he check then and it was only 500GB written, he downloads a lot of data to the drive each day, he recently did a Windows refresh(which writes a ton of data to the drive), and power on cycles are 564 which means he's either hibernating or shutting down the laptop a lot and each time that's all the contents of RAM being written to the SSD.



Exactly. Yes I always suspend it, every day a few times, always suspend by night and occasionally I hibernate or turn it off. So what of these options is better for the SSD preservation and the temperature problem? Suspending is just very practical but if it is causing damage I might turn it off. I any case a new SSD costs 50€ not a big deal, a bigger problem is opening the laptop for replacing it as it is a closed model...

And I have reinstalled Windows a few times from the pendrive as I had these previous touchpad/keyboard problems and wanted to try to fix it. It was not refreshing but fresh installs, lets say 3-4 times in 5 months. Does it make sense for the 10TB usage? Any other advice about SSD preservation? Should I delete all those movies and games and try to keep the SSD as empty as possible? How full maximum do you recommend? It's really no problem, I just have it full because I thought it was no problem but I can have it very empty without any problem, I keep videos for ages without watching them...

THANKS!!


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## qwak (May 21, 2020)

Regeneration said:


> Bitcoin mining doesn't use 10TB of bandwidth. It is possible to fake SMART data.
> 
> Something is either wrong with the drive, or you just keep writing and delete data nonstop, or it was the Amazon people.


This is the SMART data?





Since I always have uTorrent and eMule open, does uploading use hard my SSD? That could be the reason? I have no clue on how many GB or TB I have shared with other users. Could be millions. (But I don't do anything bad or ilegal or professional, just normal use at home, I always have those programs open and don't notice what the others download from me).


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## newtekie1 (May 21, 2020)

Uploading doesn't use the SSD, that would be reads not writes.  Only the writes wear the drive.

What laptop is this exactly?  Perhaps there is space for a second SSD that you can install that you can dedicate to your downloads to save wear and space on your main system SSD. Or just put in a bigger SSD if it doesn't have space for a second drive. HPs usually have pretty good service manuals that make it really easy to open them up.


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## Regeneration (May 21, 2020)

Yeah, but setting offset isn't a real modification. That screenshot you just posted reveals the real problem.




"Media and Data Integrity Errors" is too damn high. Something is defective with that SSD and it needs to be replaced.


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## newtekie1 (May 21, 2020)

Regeneration said:


> Yeah, but setting offset isn't a real modification. That screenshot you just posted reveals the real problem.
> 
> "Media and Data Integrity Errors" is too damn high. Something is defective with that SSD and it needs to be replaced.



HD Sentinel is interpreting that value wrong. The other programs that show the smart data show that the raw value for that field is 0, I'm not sure why HD Sentinel is showing a crazy high value.  That's not even a realistic number...


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## Ahhzz (May 21, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> HD Sentinel is interpreting that value wrong. The other programs that show the smart data show that the raw value for that field is 0, I'm not sure why HD Sentinel is showing a crazy high value.  That's not even a realistic number...


I have seen HD Sentinel show some _odd_ values on SSD drives. I recommend using the manufacturer's software for SSD/NVMe drives.


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## qwak (May 21, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> HD Sentinel is interpreting that value wrong. The other programs that show the smart data show that the raw value for that field is 0, I'm not sure why HD Sentinel is showing a crazy high value.  That's not even a realistic number...


This  is AIDA64 SMART test





It's probably the SSD defective anyway, it's acting weird from the beginning and the fan running fast for no reason in the Task Manager, is there any way to check if it is the SSD or the motherboard? As long as it was to replace the SSD I would assume it happily as I have the oher one EVO 860 and Amazon still offers repair and refund but just to know.



newtekie1 said:


> What laptop is this exactly?



The laptop is a HP 15-db0045ns. I really don't need more space, I just have lots of videos that I dont need to keep at all.


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## thesmokingman (May 21, 2020)

qwak said:


> It's probably the SSD defective anyway, it's acting weird from the beginning and the fan running fast for no reason in the Task Manager, is there any way to check if it is the SSD or the motherboard?



There is no fan on the SSD.


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## qwak (May 21, 2020)

thesmokingman said:


> There is no fan on the SSD.


So what is this terrible noise that happens all the time sounding like a fan? Even the CPU temperature goes high while the noise...


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## Regeneration (May 21, 2020)

I looked at all the screenshots you posted. It is normal for that SSD to operate up to 70c.

Don't see any technical problem. Maybe, you just download alot and generate a lot of writes.


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## qwak (May 21, 2020)

Regeneration said:


> I looked at all the screenshots you posted. It is normal for that SSD to operate up to 70c.
> 
> Don't see any technical problem. Maybe, you just download alot and generate a lot of writes.


I have sent an email to the maker (I didnt know that brand SK) if they reply I will inform here in case it might be of help for future users. THANKS!!!!


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## Aquinus (May 21, 2020)

Look folks, even in a laptop, an NVMe SSD isn't going to usually get that toasty unless the SSD is actively being written to. I have an NVMe in my HP Spectre and when it's just idling, the NVMe temps aren't even above 30 degrees. It sounds like something on the OP's machine is just doing a ton of writing. This doesn't sound like an issue with the drive, but rather something with the software running on the OP's laptop. For example, my NVMe's temp on my laptop is only 25.9*C on sensor 1 and 26.9*C on sensor two. Then if I got to my tower (which has been turned on all day,) the NVMe drive there is 32.9*C on sensor 1 and 39.9*C on sensor two (with no heatsink or active cooling.)

I wouldn't be surprised if the OP has some malicious software that's using his disk for who knows what. I'd suggest looking at what's actively doing any I/O while the machine is on and start from there.


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## R0H1T (May 21, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> Just for clarity, that's like writing about 60GB every single day for 5 months.


Not really, I'm doing a TB write every 2-3 weeks on a recent TLC drive, if it was MLC I'd be less conservative & probably do 2x of that. As for the OP's usage, it's likely due to the downloads which exaggerates a lot of writes e.g. with a download manager. They download at a separate location, in parts, & then combine these to save them generally in the downloads directory. Just speculating here but I do know, from experience, that constant downloads will keep a drive hot for an extended period of time!


Aquinus said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the OP has some malicious software that's using his disk for who knows what. I'd suggest looking at what's actively doing any I/O while the machine is on and start from there.


Yes could be, but I'm betting it's something to do with the downloads maybe he can reveal what & where he's downloading from ~ if he *wants* to? There's also process hacker or any other utility he can use to check what program is doing the most writes.


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## newtekie1 (May 21, 2020)

qwak said:


> So what is this terrible noise that happens all the time sounding like a fan? Even the CPU temperature goes high while the noise...



The CPU fan...



R0H1T said:


> Not really, I'm doing a TB write every 2-3 weeks on a recent TLC drive, if it was MLC I'd be less conservative & probably do 2x of that. As for the OP's usage, it's likely due to the downloads which exaggerates a lot of writes e.g. with a download manager. They download at a separate location, in parts, & then combine these to save them generally in the downloads directory. Just speculating here but I do know, from experience, that constant downloads will keep a drive hot for an extended period of time!



Plus considering the computer has been powered down, put to sleep, or hibernated 564 times.  Every time the hiberfile.sys file is written with the entire contents of the system RAM and video RAM, that could easily be 4-5TB written right there.  Plus he said he's done clean installs of Windows multiple times over the last 5 months, thats probably another 1TB or more when you consider all the updates and crap that gets re-installed every time.

I think the 10TB written isn't unrealistic given what we know about the OP's use of the drive over the past 5 months.


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## qwak (May 21, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> Look folks, even in a laptop, an NVMe SSD isn't going to usually get that toasty unless the SSD is actively being written to. I have an NVMe in my HP Spectre and when it's just idling, the NVMe temps aren't even above 30 degrees. It sounds like something on the OP's machine is just doing a ton of writing. This doesn't sound like an issue with the drive, but rather something with the software running on the OP's laptop. For example, my NVMe's temp on my laptop is only 25.9*C on sensor 1 and 26.9*C on sensor two. Then if I got to my tower (which has been turned on all day,) the NVMe drive there is 32.9*C on sensor 1 and 39.9*C on sensor two (with no heatsink or active cooling.)
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if the OP has some malicious software that's using his disk for who knows what. I'd suggest looking at what's actively doing any I/O while the machine is on and start from there.


This you mean?





I don't do much special about the downloads. As I said, I get videos, music, software or games, by uTorrent or eMule, but the day by day is movies from download sites such as the ones below, very popular ones (in Spain). Movies now a days can be very big sized.

MANY THANKS.

* Concerning possible malicious software I always install FormatFactory for editing audio, video, etc, and not long ago I had a very bad experience as it installed a form of fake Chromium that was impossible to uninstall and had to reset Windows to get rid of it. I'll be taking a look. It's very good free software but dangerous for the malware.


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## Aquinus (May 22, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> Plus considering the computer has been powered down, put to sleep, or hibernated 564 times. Every time the hiberfile.sys file is written with the entire contents of the system RAM and video RAM, that could easily be 4-5TB written right there.


The screenshot the OP provided makes me think that you might be right about this one, but I'm still a little skeptical. Normally a machine doesn't suspend to disk unless the battery is practically dead, otherwise modern laptops typically go to sleep. Even my HP Spectre right now has its lid closed, is asleep, but it's not suspended to disk, and it can be this way for a week and only lose maybe 10% charge. Even if the OP is letting the battery die every day, that's only 12-16GB to write to disk, assuming it's not compressed. That's still a lot less than the 60GB a day that would be required to go from practically nothing to 10TB of writes in a 5 month timespan.

What you're saying makes total sense, but the numbers seem to indicate that a whole lot more is going on if that's actually the case.


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## newtekie1 (May 22, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> Normally a machine doesn't suspend to disk unless the battery is practically dead, otherwise modern laptops typically go to sleep.



The default power plan for most laptops has Hybrid Sleep enabled.  This means when it goes to sleep it still writes the hiberfile.sys file. It does this so that if the battery goes completely dead when it is asleep, it can still wake up from hibernation and pick up right where the user left off.  So, effectively, every time you are putting it to sleep you are writing to the disk like you are hibernating it too.

As to how much data can be written to a drive in a short amount of time, I bought a 1TB XPG 8200 Pro back in late November, a little less than 6 months ago.  It is used as my download drive for..."_things"_...and it currently has 53TB total writes.  So, yeah, doing those things can definitely rack up the writes.


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## qwak (May 23, 2020)

Is it normal to have an average of 35 GB writes and 243 GB reads per day?? I sware I just downloaded some videos not so big at all, 2-5 GB average.





Oh and the maker SK Hynix replied my email saying they only give technical support if you buy the disks, not a laptop with their disks.



> Thank you for reaching out to *SK Hynix* support team.
> 
> Please be kindly advised that this support page will only provide a solution for a retail customer who purchased SK Hynix SSD drive.
> According to the product details of your PC, it has been developed by the use of PC manufacturing company.
> ...


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## Vya Domus (May 23, 2020)

Sounds faulty, I had an ADATA drive that behaved similarly.


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## qwak (May 23, 2020)

Vya Domus said:


> Sounds faulty, I had an ADATA drive that behaved similarly.


Yes, but can I claim for a replacement when the range of normal temperature is up to 70º and it's usually stable at 63º?


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## gojinii (May 25, 2020)

If you haven't yet claim for replacement or were not able to claim for it, you can at least try setting your power option to balanced or lower down your minimum processor state to 5%?. That's what I did to get my Kingston 2.5 inch SSD to idle at sub 40C from above 50C. 

Although, I did update my BIOS, install intel rapid storage, intel inf and intel management engine before that. But I didn't see any major improvement only until I change the power settings.


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## newtekie1 (May 25, 2020)

qwak said:


> Is it normal to have an average of 35 GB writes and 243 GB reads per day?? I sware I just downloaded some videos not so big at all, 2-5 GB average.



Yep, totally normal bittorrent behavior.  I assume you're seeding those movies too.


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## qwak (May 28, 2020)

So I emptied the disk quite much and the temperature remains stable around 63º and the health has lost one more point being now only 77%.

Emptying it didn't help.

Is it easy to switch the hard disks so I could use the quite new EVO 860 from my older laptop instead (which I don't use anymore)?

Do you know any tutorial to do so? I would need to switch them and I guess I need to extract them and install a fresh Windows but have no clue how to do it.

Many thanks.


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## TheLostSwede (May 28, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> Yep, totally normal bittorrent behavior.  I assume you're seeding those movies too.


Reading data doesn't put any strain on the flash.


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## newtekie1 (May 28, 2020)

qwak said:


> So I emptied the disk quite much and the temperature remains stable around 63º and the health has lost one more point being now only 77%.
> 
> Emptying it didn't help.



Emptying the drive will not bring back health, the damage is done. Emptying the drive will only slow the wear moving forward.



TheLostSwede said:


> Reading data doesn't put any strain on the flash.



Every read results in a write to the drive. So, yes, it does.


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## TheLostSwede (May 28, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> Every read results in a write to the drive. So, yes, it does.


Sorry, what? That's not how flash memory works, but ok...
Only P/E cycles would cause degradation of the physical flash.
Sure, read operation can, in a worst case scenario, cause data degradation or in extreme cases loss of data retention, but it doesn't affect the cells in the flash in a negative way until they're erased again.


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## Aquinus (May 28, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Sorry, what? That's not how flash memory works, but ok...
> Only P/E cycles would cause degradation of the physical flash.
> Sure, read operation can, in a worst case scenario, cause data degradation or in extreme cases loss of data retention, but it doesn't affect the cells in the flash in a negative way until they're erased again.


On Linux, access times are stored in the file system, but I would like to emphasize that this is a very small amount of data, even at scale, so I wouldn't even consider that a substantial source of disk writes.


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## TheLostSwede (May 28, 2020)

Aquinus said:


> On Linux, access times are stored in the file system, but I would like to emphasize that this is a very small amount of data, even at scale, so I wouldn't even consider that a substantial source of disk writes.


Linux stores a lot more than that in the file system, hence why for example on a RPi, you want to consolidate all that crap in RAM first and then write a larger chunk of data to the micro SD card at a time. A lot of inexperienced people have fried their micro SD cards in a matter of months due to logging in Linux alone.


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## dorsetknob (May 28, 2020)

qwak said:


> I got it refurbished from Amazon sold by Amazon and I run the tests on arrival and said the SSD had like 500GB usage and 30 hours on. I can send it to repair for free or refund, that's no problem, my concern is if I can still use it without risk of damage of other components until Amazon reopens the repair service which is suspended until COVID passes


With the Deteriorating Health of that SSD  i would recomend A RMA.


> As for the repair service which is suspended until COVID passes


  i would want a agreed post dated RMA.
Otherwise your Drive is going to fail and Amazon might refuse the RMA because you failed to notify them of the problem in a timely fashion.
I know Amazon are good with their response to RMA's and its not your/Amazon's fault re Covid 19 problems.
but i would still like a formal acknowledgment from Amazon that the Drive needs RMA as soon as convienent.


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## qwak (May 28, 2020)

dorsetknob said:


> With the Deteriorating Health of that SSD  i would recomend A RMA.
> i would want a agreed post dated RMA.
> Otherwise your Drive is going to fail and Amazon might refuse the RMA because you failed to notify them of the problem in a timely fashion.
> I know Amazon are good with their response to RMA's and its not your/Amazon's fault re Covid 19 problems.
> but i would still like a formal acknowledgment from Amazon that the Drive needs RMA as soon as convienent.


What is RMA?

I already notified Amazon and they acknowledged it.


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## dorsetknob (May 28, 2020)

qwak said:


> What is RMA?


 A return merchandise authorization (*RMA*),


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## qwak (May 30, 2020)

dorsetknob said:


> A return merchandise authorization (*RMA*),


THANK YOU!


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## newtekie1 (Jun 3, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Sorry, what? That's not how flash memory works, but ok...
> Only P/E cycles would cause degradation of the physical flash.
> Sure, read operation can, in a worst case scenario, cause data degradation or in extreme cases loss of data retention, but it doesn't affect the cells in the flash in a negative way until they're erased again.



Looks up how file systems track Access times.  Every read, results in the access time being updated.  So every read results in a write.

It isn't about how the flash memory works, it's about how the OS works.



Aquinus said:


> On Linux, access times are stored in the file system, but I would like to emphasize that this is a very small amount of data, even at scale, so I wouldn't even consider that a substantial source of disk writes.



Windows is the same.  It doesn't seem like a lot of data, but imagine a file is constantly being accessed so the access time is constantly being updates.  Every access time update is a 4k sector write(assuming the default NTFS formatting was used on the drive).

This is why you'll still find a lot of people recommending against using an SSD for torrenting. It writes a shit-ton to the drive.


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## TheLostSwede (Jun 3, 2020)

newtekie1 said:


> Looks up how file systems track Access times.  Every read, results in the access time being updated.  So every read results in a write.
> 
> It isn't about how the flash memory works, it's about how the OS works.


Yeah, no, that's simply not true either. A lot of this is managed and cached in RAM first, then there's a larger write when there's sufficient data to write. Even so, that's a tiny write and wouldn't cause any kind of significant wear on the flash.

Yes, this was an issue on something like Raspbian, as they screwed up and didn't cache to RAM by default, so in some worst case situations, you could end up killing a micro SD card in three months time. However, this is NOT the case with a decent OS and on top of that, the SSD controller can also handle tiny writes and cache them up in the local RAM to prevent excessive writes. In fact, modern SSD's do a lot of management of things like this that is transparent to the OS and it's all done to reduce writes in as much as possible. This is also why, if there's a power cut, you have a bigger chance of losing some data when you use an SSD vs. a traditional hard drive.

This is old, but still explains how a lot of this works.


			https://www.snia.org/sites/default/files/SSSITECHNOTES_HowControllersMaximizeSSDLife.pdf


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## Athlonite (Jun 3, 2020)

Lets see first off you have both uTorrent and eMule running constantly they both constantly read and write to disk even if you're not down/uploading anything 
rule 1: If you're not using it turn it off
rule 2: use an HDD not an SSD for these programs

secondly your temps are high because uTorrent and eMule constantly access the SSD not allowing it to ever go into low power idle states allowing it to cool down 
refer to rule 1

thirdly I doubt any SSD manufacturer would give you an RMA for a problem you've caused


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## qwak (Jun 14, 2020)

Athlonite said:


> Lets see first off you have both uTorrent and eMule running constantly they both constantly read and write to disk even if you're not down/uploading anything
> rule 1: If you're not using it turn it off
> rule 2: use an HDD not an SSD for these programs
> 
> ...


Said and done, thanks. Off from now on.


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## qwak (Jul 20, 2020)

Hello.

So I finally sent it to Amazon due to the high temperature of the SSD (70º C average now) and they sent it back saying it was perfect within the normal range described by the maker SK hynix.

So I tried to replace the disk myself switching it with the Samsung SSD EV0 860 that I have in the old laptop which runs at 35º temperature and when I opened this laptop to do the exchange I realized that the SSD is not a normal one but a small one as in the first attached photo. I never saw a SSD like that. And in the space for the normal sized SSD there is a plug missing.

So, the temperature of this HP laptop is killing me. I have a thermometer over the keyboard and it's at 40º and my face really burns.

So, do you know if I can still install the Samsung EVO on this laptop (photos attached) and if the necessary plug or connection can be purchased somewhere?


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## Chrispy_ (Jul 20, 2020)

What you have there is called an M.2 SSD specifically one using the NVMe interface.

You can get SATA inteface drives for M.2 as well, but you do need to check the motherboard supports M.2 SATA before buying one to replace it - In a laptop that's not a guarantee.

As for the empty 2.5"drive bay on the other side of the battery, I don't think so. It looks like they've stripped the SATA connector off the board to save a few pennies:




Personally, given that it's a cheap plastic laptop and everything is working fine (despite the temperatures and health being lower than expected) I'd just make sure I had regular backups and keep using it normally.

If you really want to replace the SSD, search for PCI Express M.2 2280 SSDs, and if the shop you're searching on has the filter, look for TLC not QLC as it'll run a bit cooler and faster.

In Europe, the Crucial P1 or Intel 660P are aggresively-priced models at 500GB or 1TB capacities; I think they'll be ample for this laptop.
If you want TLC instead of QLC then the WD Blue SN550 and ADATA SX8200 Pro are usually good bets for 10-15% more money.


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## qwak (Jul 20, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> What you have there is called an M.2 SSD specifically one using the NVMe interface.
> 
> You can get SATA inteface drives for M.2 as well, but you do need to check the motherboard supports M.2 SATA before buying one to replace it - In a laptop that's not a guarantee.
> 
> ...


Many thanks @Chrispy_

Since I am a beginner, let's see if I understood right. There is no chance to install the EVO in that hole because the connector is not on sale or it's too expensive or complicated?

Thanks a lot!!


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## Chrispy_ (Jul 20, 2020)

You can't buy an adapter for that. You'd need to solder the connector on and even then there's no guarantee that the traces you solder it to are connected to power, or that the BIOS will even recognise that port when it's soldered on.

Either leave it alone or buy a new NVMe M.2 drive to replace it. I've already said that I'd just live with it myself but if the temps/health bother you then just replace it for peace of mind.

In my experience the WD Blue SN550 is a cool running and very affordable drive, and the 500GB model has been my go-to for budget builds in 2020. It ticks all the boxes:

DRAM-less for lowest possible price, without being bad (many DRAM-less SSDs are awful, this one performs fine)
TLC instead of QLC NAND, so....
faster sustained write speeds than QLC
higher lifetime endurance (the 'health' value you're so worried about)
less complexity, so a simpler/cheaper/cooler controller and lower power draw

Single-sided M.2 2280, guaranteed to fit where some double-sided M.2 SSDs (like the SX8200 Pro) may not.
5 year warranty, when other super-bargain stuff is 3 years or less.


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## qwak (Jul 20, 2020)

OK everything clear now, thanks a lot!

This one you mean https://shop.westerndigital.com/es-es/products/internal-drives/wd-blue-sn550-nvme-ssd#WDS250G2B0C


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## Chrispy_ (Jul 20, 2020)

Yeah, that one. It's a bit more expensive than it ought to be - I've typically seen the 500GB model for ~€75...

I see you're in Spain. Sabrent Rocket Q is probably your best 500GB option:





						Sabrent Rocket Q 500 GB NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Unidad de Estado sólido SSD Interna de Alto Rendimiento (SB-RKTQ-500): Amazon.es: Informática
					

Sabrent Rocket Q 500 GB NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 Unidad de Estado sólido SSD Interna de Alto Rendimiento (SB-RKTQ-500): Amazon.es: Informática



					www.amazon.es
				




If you can't afford 500GB, then the Kingston A2000 is the best cheap 250GB option:





						Kingston A2000 (SA2000M8/250G) SSD NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 250 GB : Amazon.es: Informática
					

Kingston A2000 (SA2000M8/250G) SSD NVMe PCIe M.2 2280 250 GB : Amazon.es: Informática



					www.amazon.es


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## qwak (Jul 20, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> Yeah, that one. It's a bit more expensive than it ought to be - I've typically seen the 500GB model for ~€75...
> 
> I see you're in Spain. Sabrent Rocket Q is probably your best 500GB option:
> 
> ...


Great. Since this one seems to degrade very fast I'll buy one of those when it dies or if just can't bear the heat. Actually I don't need more than 128 GB, all I use it for is movies and it's just unnecessary to store so many together, so it's not expensive at all. Pity that the EVO is brand new and I can't use it in this laptop. How can it be 35º colder? THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Chrispy_ (Jul 20, 2020)

In other news, if you don't care too much about gaming performance too much, those 1st-gen Ryzens can be cooled down significantly with a piece of third-party software called Ryzen Controller:

Grab the windows installer from here:








						Releases · Ryzen Controller Team / Ryzen Controller · GitLab
					

Unlock the true performance of your Ryzen Mobile Processor: https://www.ryzencontroller.com/ For Series 2xxx, 3xxx, 4xxx and 5xxx Gui for...




					gitlab.com
				




It's powerful software but you can also do harm if you change values without understanding what they do. To run it cooler, I suggest leaving *everything* unticked except the three boxes I've shown below.
Also the first time you do this, make a note of what values are in those boxes - those are the HP defaults for your laptop and it's not a terrible idea to create a preset called 'default' just so that you can refer to those values without having to uninstall/reinstall the software.

Anyway, sensible values for a plastic, single-fan 2500U are probably 65C, 15W TDP and 20W Boost.





APPLY it and then hit CREATE PRESET, then switch to the PRESETS tab, scroll down to the bottom and make sure your new preset is selected for all four scenarios in the _Auto apply preset_ section:




(ignore the 18W 75C, that's just what I've called one of my presets)

Finally, switch over to the settings tab and tick the first three boxes:





If its still too hot, try 60C, 12W TDP and 16W boost. That's still pretty comfortable performance for general web-browsing and office work but I wouldn't try to game like that; After 5-10 minutes of boost your framerate will drop in half because 12W isn't enough to feed the CPU cores and graphics simultaneously. A 2500U ideally needs about 22W for gaming without throttling the graphics. At 15W framerates are halved, and at 12W it's probably just a slide show.


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## qwak (Jul 20, 2020)

Wow thanks a lot, I'll try it following your instructions. The CPU temperature was always normal, around 45-50º, but Amazon returned it hotter, it's around 65-70º easily now. I don't know what they did but it is much higher temperature. The temperature in Spain is awful, 37º today, but still shouldn't be such a difference. Many thanks, I'll try that.


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## mtcn77 (Jul 21, 2020)

You are using the drive with split master boot record(in two partitions).
Ssd drives are different from hdd. You don't partition them, you don't even run a page file for maximum lifespan. The controller is possibly racing for rewrites for lack of space.
One big free partition is better than two %75 full ones.


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## Caring1 (Jul 21, 2020)

Or to save pennies and re-use the Samsung 860 SSD use an Optical Drive bay adapter.


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## newtekie1 (Jul 21, 2020)

TheLostSwede said:


> Yeah, no, that's simply not true either. A lot of this is managed and cached in RAM first, then there's a larger write when there's sufficient data to write. Even so, that's a tiny write and wouldn't cause any kind of significant wear on the flash.



It might be cached, but the data is still eventually written to the drive, and pretty quickly at that.  The file access times have to be updated on the drive, and that results in a write to the drive.  It might be small, but when it is constantly happening, it adds up.

Oh, and just an update on my SSD that I run torrents from, it has been almost exactly 2 months since I made the post stating it had 53TB of writes to it.  It's now right at 60TB of writes.  So torrenting has resulted in ~6TB in just 2 months.  And this is just a data drive, not the system drive in the computer.  So, again, 10TB in 5 months running torrents is totally plausible.


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## chaoshusky (Jul 21, 2020)

Damn, this is an old thread now.. But has the OP returned the drive? For one, here in the UK, prices have been crazy...but i've paid half that for a 1TB SSD that's brand new! I mean 256GB for 380 euros used? What were you thinking?! Temperature is the least of your concern.. Get your money back and get a brand new drive that isn't overpriced to all heck.. Wow.. Back when they were pricey my 500GB Evo boot SSD (970 Pro) was still cheaper! (it was £176 about..22 months ago? Still at 98% health and a ton of TBW left.. Plus the 1TB ADATA SX8200 Pro only cost me £146 and i've had that for about 18 months i think? That's still at 100% and nowhere near max TBW.. holy $hit..)


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## newtekie1 (Jul 21, 2020)

chaoshusky said:


> Damn, this is an old thread now.. But has the OP returned the drive?



Yes, that is what revived the thread. The drive was in a laptop the OP bought, he returned the entire laptop and told him there is nothing wrong with it.



chaoshusky said:


> I mean 256GB for 380 euros used? What were you thinking?!



That is what he paid for the laptop, not the SSD.


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## chaoshusky (Jul 21, 2020)

Ohh, the one time in a while i don't read through everything! I don't know the specs, but probably better than my own laptop! Haha.. Damn.. I should probably go look, but i'm tinkering with a kettle (yep, a kettle.. 4 months old and defective (not mine)! That's 'Blaupunkt' for you..)

Edit: Okay, he was still ripped off  HP, i quite like.. But my ASUS Transformer convertible tablet thing about keeps up i think, some i7 5500U and 840M GT (eww) but at least i have a 1080p screen! Got it kinda cheap and ended up with one of those optical drive converters for it, plus the external subwoofer accessory! Bang and Olufsen (Philips..) speakers.. 250GB and 480GB SSDs, both SATA.. Does its job though! Use it for mobile music playback so it tends to get rattled by lots of bass..can't really use a mechanical in that situation  just a shame its ASUS, really! Haha xD


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## Chrispy_ (Jul 21, 2020)

qwak said:


> Wow thanks a lot, I'll try it following your instructions. The CPU temperature was always normal, around 45-50º, but Amazon returned it hotter, it's around 65-70º easily now. I don't know what they did but it is much higher temperature. The temperature in Spain is awful, 37º today, but still shouldn't be such a difference. Many thanks, I'll try that.



Ouch, If your room is 37ºC then you have my condolences, but that might explain the high temps:

My Ryzen 2700U is about 10ºC over ambient when idle, 35ºC over ambient at 12W, and about 50ºC over ambient at 18W. It's not the same model of CPU or laptop cooler, so don't take those numbers too seriously, but it is still a 1st-gen Ryzen and it is still a single-fan laptop.




Caring1 said:


> Or to save pennies and re-use the Samsung 860 SSD use an Optical Drive bay adapter.
> View attachment 162791


I did initially suggest that; Great minds think alike....

But then I edited it out of my reply on a hunch, as I was wondering whether a laptop with folding RJ45 jack would have room for a DVD drive. it looks like OP's laptop model has a common motherboard used for different chassis and his particular variant is too slim to include an optical bay. To make matters worse, HP have filled in the void left behind by no optical drive with a plastic grid to stop the keyboard from flexing into the void behind the motherboard.




(couldn't find the exact teardown, but that's a screencap from an HP 15-db0039ns which is likely just a spec/colour variant of OP's  HP 15-db0045ns model)


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## Caring1 (Jul 21, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> I did initially suggest that; Great minds think alike....
> 
> But then I edited it out of my reply; On closer inspection though, it looks like OP's laptop model has a common motherboard used for different chassis and his particular variant is too slim to include an optical bay. To make matters worse, HP have filled in the void left behind by no optical drive with a plastic grid to stop the keyboard from flexing into the void behind the motherboard.
> 
> ...


Ok, I just assumed the pic OP posted (copied below) showed an optical drive above the space where the hard drive normally sits or at least it shows the mini sata connector for one.


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## Chrispy_ (Jul 21, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> Ok, I just assumed the pic OP posted (copied below) showed an optical drive above the space where the hard drive normally sits or at least it shows the mini sata connector for one.


Yeah, that's exactly what I thought when I first replied. Turns out that's not an optical drive, it's the bottom of the keyboard.

Honestly not 100% sure but if we optimistically assume the 2.5" bay is 9.5mm tall instead of 7mm tall, you can see it's still rammed between the plastic of the palm rest and what looks to be a very thin 1mm blue foam spacer on the plastic back shell. so, internal space under the wrist rest is maybe 11mm. I'm not sure if there's room for a 9.5mm optical bay converter _and_ the keyboard assembly - especially since the keyboard is likely to recessed back from the wrist rest a bit too to avoid interference with the screen when the lid closes.


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## newtekie1 (Jul 21, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> But then I edited it out of my reply on a hunch, as I was wondering whether a laptop with folding RJ45 jack would have room for a DVD drive. it looks like OP's laptop model has a common motherboard used for different chassis and his particular variant is too slim to include an optical bay. To make matters worse, HP have filled in the void left behind by no optical drive with a plastic grid to stop the keyboard from flexing into the void behind the motherboard.



Holy shit.  So they removed the optical drive, but left the connector for it.  But left room for a 2.5" SATA drive, but removed the connector for that.  Wow, I knew HP had gotten bad, but this is just braindead bullshit.


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## dorsetknob (Jul 21, 2020)

Cannot for the life of me Remember which laptop i scrapped this came out of


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## qwak (Jul 21, 2020)

chaoshusky said:


> Ohh, the one time in a while i don't read through everything! I don't know the specs, but probably better than my own laptop! Haha.. Damn.. I should probably go look, but i'm tinkering with a kettle (yep, a kettle.. 4 months old and defective (not mine)! That's 'Blaupunkt' for you..)
> 
> Edit: Okay, he was still ripped off  HP, i quite like.. But my ASUS Transformer convertible tablet thing about keeps up i think, some i7 5500U and 840M GT (eww) but at least i have a 1080p screen! Got it kinda cheap and ended up with one of those optical drive converters for it, plus the external subwoofer accessory! Bang and Olufsen (Philips..) speakers.. 250GB and 480GB SSDs, both SATA.. Does its job though! Use it for mobile music playback so it tends to get rattled by lots of bass..can't really use a mechanical in that situation  just a shame its ASUS, really! Haha xD



Lol, no, I wasn't ripped at all, I love this laptop, it's super light and super fast, the CPU AMD Ryzen 2500U is faster than my previous Intel i5 and it has 12GB RAM, so, I love it, the price in Amazon new was 600€ and I got it used for 380€ and everything works and it has not even a scratch, it's only the high temperature of the SSD which seems to be in normal range, so I got a good deal I think. 



Chrispy_ said:


> Ouch, If your room is 37ºC then you have my condolences,



Lol, thank you very much. I guess our summer heat is like the rain or fog or cold or darkness in the northern countries, you never get used to it. 37º is almost average in July in Madrid but it gets up to 42º sometimes. However, the big problem has become air conditioning everywhere, they put it so cold that you get sick every summer. Here at home I have "only" 30º with all shutters closed and in the fresh part of the house.


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## Caring1 (Jul 22, 2020)

Obvious solution if you don't have soldering skills to fit the SSD connector is to buy a larger NVMe drive with a larger cache.
Your 256GB drive is the bare minimum I would have installed, preferably a 1TB drive.
Most will come with a heatsink strip attached as the label to aid in cooling.


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