# Need upgrade for BC2



## Zen_ (Apr 19, 2010)

Currently running:

e5200 @ 3.75 GHz
XFX 4770 @ 875/1000 MHz 
MSI Neo3-F 
2x1GB Muskin DDR2 6400
Akasa AK-965
550w Corsair VX

Looking to upgrade to:

Phenom II X4 955BE - $160
GPU- ???
Gigabyte GA-770TA-UD3 AM3 - $80
2x2GB whatever is on sale DDR3 1600
Sunbeamtech Core Contact Freezer - $25
620w Seasonic S12II - $80 (want to use old PSU in another rig)

I'm really undecided about video cards and whether I should even upgrade at all. BC2 is suppose to be quad optimized (according to DICE, like they would ever exaggerate right). I get 45-100 FPS as is in 32 player servers with all low settings and no AA/AF @ 1680x1050, but big time dips in high action and when there's lots of destruction physics, which makes me think I really do need a quad. And I'd like to get back on an AMD platform anyway. Would also like to get 4GB ram for Win 7 64 bit but it doesn't seem to make much sense to buy more DDR2 at this point time. 

Video cards, it hardly seems worth it to upgrade to a 5770 from a 4770 (not worried about DX11 yet). The 5830 got mixed reviews but has come down to around $225. The 5850 is still running around $300 and I think the only one that will fit in my case are the older reference models because it seems most of the newer custom PCB's are the longer 5870 PCB. I have 10.75" to work with for a graphics card. Also considering a used 4890 if a Sapphire Toxic comes up on eBay. Just not sure here though...

Any advice would be great.


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## Mussels (Apr 19, 2010)

quads not needed, just a better video card.

slap a 5770 in there and you wont need much else changed (more ram would be good, and you'd better go an x64 OS )


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## Jamborhgini313 (Apr 19, 2010)

BC2 loves Quads. Don't upgrade PSU. That PSU has 41amps which is enough for a  Quad and any Single Video (except GTX 400's). I would upgrade the CPU, Mobo and Card


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## boomstik360 (Apr 19, 2010)

He could find a nice 775 quad for cheap and slap it in there 

The other way would just be for a better upgrade path. Either way would work great.


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## Mussels (Apr 19, 2010)

boomstik360 said:


> He could find a nice 775 quad for cheap and slap it in there
> 
> The other way would just be for a better upgrade path. Either way would work great.



775 quads dont really have any good value for money chips.


IMO video card first (my 2x 4870's cant max it out smoothly all the time, his 4770 would be struggling) and then work on a core system upgrade next (i5/AM3)


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## Nick89 (Apr 19, 2010)

Zen_ said:


> Currently running:
> 
> e5200 @ 3.75 GHz
> XFX 4770 @ 875/1000 MHz
> ...



*DO NOT GET the Sunbeam tech core contact freezer. It is a POS.* 

I did a review on it.


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## Zen_ (Apr 19, 2010)

I thought about getting a used Q6600 or Q9550, but the 775 platform is dead and I know this mobo won't overclock well with low multiplier CPU's like the quads that need to go 400+ FSB for a good overclock. 

Thanks for the heads up on the CCF too, what are some good heatsinks that mount sideways (blowing out the back) on AM3 sockets? Also needs to be under 170mm tall to fit in my case. Zalman CNPS10X maybe?


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## Hayder_Master (Apr 19, 2010)

nice chose for upgrade, GPU 5770 looks nice or if you handle more money for 5850 and core i5 system will be great


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## OnBoard (Apr 19, 2010)

I game BC2 in 1680x1050 HBOA off, details&effects medium rest high 2xAA/8xAF and still get over 50fps with 5770.

It would be a perfect card for you. low->med is a whole different looking game.


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## Wile E (Apr 19, 2010)

Video card is the most important factor in gaming. Spend the most money there. You may also just be a little short on ram, thus the lag spikes. 2GB is not enough for some of the newest games anymore.

Overall, I'd say you don't need a quad. Just more ram and a better video card.


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## HalfAHertz (Apr 19, 2010)

Wile E said:


> Video card is the most important factor in gaming. Spend the most money there. You may also just be a little short on ram, thus the lag spikes. 2GB is not enough for some of the newest games anymore.
> 
> Overall, I'd say you don't need a quad. Just more ram and a better video card.



100% agreed. Keep your current system and just add 2gb more and a nice 5850/ 470. You could get a sige 5770 as well for now and later when it can't keep up, upgrade to CFX if your board supports it. Corsair makes some decent PSUs  so you shouldn't have any problem with that


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## BarbaricSoul (Apr 19, 2010)

well it does look like a quad might help him some, this is after playing the level snowblind in BF:BC2







If you can find a decent deal on a quad, go for it, but a new GFX card would definently give a better performance boost. First thing I would get would be a 5850/gtx470 and go from there.

BTW, that spike on the first 3 core was me completing the level


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## Mussels (Apr 19, 2010)

a quad would help, but 775 quads arent worth it - thus get the viddie first.


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## Zen_ (Apr 19, 2010)

Think I'll go with the MSI Hawk 5770, overclocked it looks like a great value for gaming at @ 1680x1050. 

Still undecided about a heatsink, read Nick89's post and some others complaining about the Core Contact Freezer poorly fitting on AM2/AM3 sockets. I want a 120mm tower cooler that can mount with the fan pushing air out the back rather than up into the PSU. Doesn't look like the CNPS10X Quiet or HDT-S1283 can do that. Anyone know about the Hyper 212 Plus or Thermalright Ultra 120?


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 19, 2010)

Mussels said:


> 775 quads dont really have any good value for money chips.
> 
> 
> IMO video card first (my 2x 4870's cant max it out smoothly all the time, his 4770 would be struggling) and then work on a core system upgrade next (i5/AM3)



Wait what? Your two 4870s have a problem with it? Why? My single 5850 eats it up.



Zen_ said:


> Think I'll go with the MSI Hawk 5770, overclocked it looks like a great value for gaming at @ 1680x1050.
> 
> Still undecided about a heatsink, read Nick89's post and some others complaining about the Core Contact Freezer poorly fitting on AM2/AM3 sockets. I want a 120mm tower cooler that can mount with the fan pushing air out the back rather than up into the PSU. Doesn't look like the CNPS10X Quiet or HDT-S1283 can do that. Anyone know about the Hyper 212 Plus or Thermalright Ultra 120?



Dude if two 4870s have an issue running it maxed out the 5770 will get raped.


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## boomstik360 (Apr 19, 2010)

I have an msi hawk 5770 brand New in box I'll sell you for 160 shipped.


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## boomstik360 (Apr 19, 2010)

My friend has an i7 setup with a 5770 runs it on max with like 45 min gps, forgot which res I think it was 1080p. He said on high


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 19, 2010)

boomstik360 said:


> My friend has an i7 setup with a 5770 runs it on max with like 45 min gps, forgot which res I think it was 1080p



I don't doubt you man but if Mussels is having an issue with two 4870's then a 5770 has no hope. Of course thats assuming Mussels rig is running at 100%.


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## boomstik360 (Apr 19, 2010)

He runs it on high not ultra. Unless he is lying to me. Look up battlefield bad company 2 performance it shows it for th 5770 too. Seriously I will find the link


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## boomstik360 (Apr 19, 2010)

http://www.techspot.com/article/255-battlefield-bad-company2-performance/page5.html


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 19, 2010)

boomstik360 said:


> http://www.techspot.com/article/255-battlefield-bad-company2-performance/page5.html



Like I said. I didn't doubt you. I just question Mussels results compared to yours.


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## boomstik360 (Apr 19, 2010)

No I know lol I just wanted to back myself up anyway. Mussels have you tried the 10.4 beta's? Sooo much better lol


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## kid41212003 (Apr 19, 2010)

I believe his current card is as fast as 8800GT?

I had the 8800GT, and FPS was reasonable in medium setting and DX9 (>40).

BC2 have alot of physics, and it depends alot on CPU. So I think he will get better min FPS with a quad-core, higher-unstable FPS with better vids.

EDIT: beside the all the new gen cards are expensive (premium price).


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## Wile E (Apr 19, 2010)

I have a 4870X2, and I can max it with HBAO off. HBAO on causes lag spikes (and I don't think it looks as good anyway).


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## TheMailMan78 (Apr 19, 2010)

Wile E said:


> I have a 4870X2, and I can max it with HBAO off. HBAO on causes lag spikes (and I don't think it looks as good anyway).



I used to get lag with HBAO also. However with the 10.4 it runs like a dream now.


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## Zen_ (Apr 19, 2010)

Wile E said:


> I have a 4870X2, and I can max it with HBAO off. HBAO on causes lag spikes (and I don't think it looks as good anyway).



I play with HBAO off and all settings on low with DX9. Will be using DX10 when I build my new rig and finally upgrade to Win 7 for DX10/11 though. 

Again, from my first post FPS is acceptable for me right now (~45-100, average about 65) and I don't really care about eye candy, *the problem is physics and FPS dips in large servers*. For instance, nearby wall starts collapsing from a tank shell, FPS dips to under 40 and it's hard to aim. Also noticing a lot of FPS dips with sighted weapons and shaking from explosions that make it difficult to aim. Ever since BF1942 introduced vehicles and large multiplayer server it seems to be a rule of thumb that you always want as much raw CPU as possible to avoid huge FPS dips from physics.

I am kinda curious what sort of FPS people with high end rigs (i7, 5850+) get on 32 player servers.


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## BarbaricSoul (Apr 19, 2010)

Zen_ said:


> I am kinda curious what sort of FPS people with high end rigs (i7, 5850+) get on 32 player servers.



Haven't played it online, but single player, everything turned on and maxed out, I get between 60-80 FPS at 1920*1200 resolution.


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Apr 20, 2010)

Mussels said:


> a quad would help, but 775 quads arent worth it - thus get the viddie first.



New 775 quads for the money are not really worth it but BC2 runs like gangbusters on quads. The CPU core scaling in this game is impressive. 

@ Zen - If you can get a used s775 quad for around $100-150 USD it's worth it to go that rout. I got my quad for a bit more than that this winter and it's been my best CPU yet. Despite being out of production for a while now S775 system are still very capable for games. With that said I think you should dump that mobo for something a little better. A mobo that support at least 4Gb is ESSENTIAL. Finding a good deal on a used mobo/CPU combo would be the best think you could to. I got my mobo/RAM/CPU all from the buy/sell section here at TPU. 


You specifically asked for advice in upgrading for BC2 and here it is. Quad cores MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE. You should have at least 4gb of ram, BC2 wont use all of it but your system processes + BC2 will use quite a bit. Any GPU worth upgrading MUST have 1Gb on board not just for BC2 but most current games and most future will make great use of the extra memory on the card. 

I read some people in here saying that a quad is not necessary in this game but it is simply the most important factor for playing this game the way it was designed. 



			
				some dude said:
			
		

> Battlefield Bad Company 2 BETA
> This was just released a few days ago and dispite some server issues, has been filled with players non stop.
> This game takes after Bad Company that was a console game which was very successful.
> To get these results I ran a good 30 minute game online. I wanted to get a long game in to insure a good average fps. I used FRAPS to record my results.
> ...


http://www.overclock.net/pc-games/659536-contagion-review-dual-core-vs-quad.html

http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/battlefield_bad_company_2_tuning_guide,7.html


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## Wile E (Apr 20, 2010)

Zen_ said:


> I play with HBAO off and all settings on low with DX9. Will be using DX10 when I build my new rig and finally upgrade to Win 7 for DX10/11 though.
> 
> Again, from my first post FPS is acceptable for me right now (~45-100, average about 65) and I don't really care about eye candy, *the problem is physics and FPS dips in large servers*. For instance, nearby wall starts collapsing from a tank shell, FPS dips to under 40 and it's hard to aim. Also noticing a lot of FPS dips with sighted weapons and shaking from explosions that make it difficult to aim. Ever since BF1942 introduced vehicles and large multiplayer server it seems to be a rule of thumb that you always want as much raw CPU as possible to avoid huge FPS dips from physics.
> 
> I am kinda curious what sort of FPS people with high end rigs (i7, 5850+) get on 32 player servers.



Even if you really need the power of a quad, buying a 775 quad and a 4GB ram kit is still your cheapest solution. Q9400's go for $190 and a decent 2x2GB 800Mhz CAS4 kit goes for $100. That's still a hell of a lot cheaper than a full build. Even better is grabbing a used 775 quad.

If your mobo didn't support quads, I would agree with the Phenom II build, but you have a mobo that's already capable of supporting a quad, with quads available for it at reasonable prices, so the Phenom II build is an unnecessary expense. 

The money you save by getting a 775 quad and 4GB ram kit allows you more money for the video card, which is still the most important factor. The 775 quad upgrade is the best bet in your case.


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## boomstik360 (Apr 20, 2010)

Mussels said:


> 775 quads dont really have any good value for money chips.
> 
> 
> IMO video card first (my 2x 4870's cant max it out smoothly all the time, his 4770 would be struggling) and then work on a core system upgrade next (i5/AM3)



I was just meaning that along with new GPU instead of a total full upgrade.


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## Mussels (Apr 20, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Wait what? Your two 4870s have a problem with it? Why? My single 5850 eats it up.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude if two 4870s have an issue running it maxed out the 5770 will get raped.



i get lag spikes at 1080P maxed out with 4x AA in DX10.1

i guess its possible its related to me having just a dual core, but shit if thats the case people are screwed, i've got a monster of a dual core...



boomstik360 said:


> No I know lol I just wanted to back myself up anyway. Mussels have you tried the 10.4 beta's? Sooo much better lol



no i havent, they dont work on 4K cards yet. i need the new ones to be released this week.


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## Lionheart (Apr 20, 2010)

Well if you've got the money and want to fully upgrade, go with the AM3 setup you mentioned, if your limited in funds, go with mussels idea and grab a HD5770 and a 4gig kit of RAM


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## BarbaricSoul (Apr 20, 2010)

Mussels said:


> i get lag spikes at 1080P maxed out with 4x AA in DX10.1
> 
> i guess its possible its related to me having just a dual core, but shit if thats the case people are screwed, i've got a monster of a dual core...



Well the game keeps my Q9650 1 core maxed and the other 3 cores loaded at 50-70%. Think the days of dual cores being a good choice for a gaming rig are about over. I do have to disagree with your statement that a socket 775 quad isn't worth upgrading to. It gonna be a long time before Ill actually have a need to replace my quad. Granted, I would not advise buying a brand new +$300 q9650 or a $280 9550, but if the OP could find a used one for around $150-200, it would definently be worth buying instead of building a whole new AMD rig which would not out perform a 775 quad system.


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Apr 20, 2010)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Well the game keeps my Q9650 1 core maxed and the other 3 cores loaded at 50-70%. Think the days of dual cores being a good choice for a gaming rig are about over.



If you set affinity to 3 cores (removing the pegged core) and then set it back to 4 cores you'll see ~70% usage on all 4 cores.


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## OnBoard (Apr 20, 2010)

TRIPTEX_MTL said:


> If you set affinity to 3 cores (removing the pegged core) and then set it back to 4 cores you'll see ~70% usage on all 4 cores.



Is that remembered or one time thing? Got to try it, not that I think it will bring performance increase, just that it would be nicer not to max one core if it's not needed.

edit: tried that, worked pretty nice. Highest core was hitting 78%, two others in the 60% range and one in 25%.


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Apr 20, 2010)

OnBoard said:


> Is that remembered or one time thing? Got to try it, not that I think it will bring performance increase, just that it would be nicer not to max one core if it's not needed.



It has to be done manually as far as I know unless you know a way to remember affinity setting per process... I've never really looked for a way. Performance should be about the same but the game should crash less if you don't keep one core maxed out. 

This idea came from exodusprime1337.


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## Mussels (Apr 20, 2010)

BarbaricSoul said:


> Well the game keeps my Q9650 1 core maxed and the other 3 cores loaded at 50-70%. Think the days of dual cores being a good choice for a gaming rig are about over. I do have to disagree with your statement that a socket 775 quad isn't worth upgrading to. It gonna be a long time before Ill actually have a need to replace my quad. Granted, I would not advise buying a brand new +$300 q9650 or a $280 9550, but if the OP could find a used one for around $150-200, it would definently be worth buying instead of building a whole new AMD rig which would not out perform a 775 quad system.



the value for moneys just not there unless you can get one cheap... all the affordable 775 quads have tiny amounts of cache and low multis


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## crazyeyesreaper (Apr 20, 2010)

if i remember correctly a 940be was pretty much on par with 9550/9650 and half the price  and a 955 with DDR3 was about the same. so i dont think 775 is that much better Barbaric. but eitherway any quad should show an improvement in this game even my buddies old Phenom 9600 at stock is faster then his athlon II x2 240 in that particular game even with the x2 at 3.6ghz the extra cores on the old phenom give better stable frame rates. So in that sense even a cheapo Athlon II x4 would show a marked improvement so... $100 athlon II x4 $75 785g board $90 DDR3 4gig kit and problem solved on the cheap really


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## Mussels (Apr 20, 2010)

crazy: athlon II's take a pretty big performance hit from the lack of cache.


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## MT Alex (Apr 20, 2010)

Zen_ said:


> I want a 120mm tower cooler that can mount with the fan pushing air out the back rather than up into the PSU. Doesn't look like the CNPS10X Quiet or HDT-S1283 can do that. Anyone know about the Hyper 212 Plus or Thermalright Ultra 120?



The HDT-1283, as well as any cooler, can easily be set up to any orientaion:  http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=100689

Good luck.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Apr 20, 2010)

and you miss my point mussels  phenom 9600 with same mobo and gpu ram shows far more stable frame rates not as large a gap as Triptex posted but when theres over a 1ghz difference old arch vs new arch and the old arch shows its better when allowed to apply itself still holds value  i know tiger direct nearly gives away the old quads and my major point here is athlon II x2 at 3.6ghz is an old dog compared to a first gen Phenom 9600 in THIS particular game granted the x2 steam rolls it in everything else but it does make you wonder if games were as multithreaded as BC2 was you really wouldnt need the cpus we have now lol 

eitherway if his mobo supports it just grab a used q6600 on the cheap overclock it a bit and just hold out for now. would be my suggestion


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## Mussels (Apr 20, 2010)

a 9600 is a good choice, i was merely stating WHY its better than an athlon II - its faster per clock thanks to the cache, let alone cores


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## BarbaricSoul (Apr 20, 2010)

> the value for moneys just not there unless you can get one cheap... all the affordable 775 quads have tiny amounts of cache and low multis



read my post alittle closer Mussels



> Granted, I would not advise buying a brand new +$300 q9650 or a $280 9550, but if the OP could find a used one for around $150-200, it would definently be worth buying



Never said anything about advising him to buy new. A q9550 just sold for $165 in TPU's B/S/T forum. A deal like that is what I was reffering to.




> so i dont think 775 is that much better Barbaric.



Wasn't saying the 775 quad would be faster, I said the AMD quad set up would not be faster than the 775 quad.



> instead of building a whole new AMD rig *which would not out perform* a 775 quad system.



Why spend the money to build a whole new system when he can upgrade his current system for less money and still get the same performance as building a new AMD system?


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## Dyno (Apr 20, 2010)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frostbite_Engine

Recommended Frostbite PC Specifications
Processor: 2.0 GHz *Quadcore*
RAM: 2GB
Graphics card: *GeForce GTX* *260* / *ATI Radeon* *4870*
Graphics memory: 512MB
OS: Windows Vista or Windows 7
Direct-X: 10, 11

Note:
These are current specifications announced by DICE for current PC game projects with the Frostbite engine and could be subject to change depending upon the game(s).

*GTX 260 vs. ATI 4770*
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/compare,1186.html?prod[2463]=on&prod[2482]=on&prod[2481]=on

*BattleField Bad Company 2 Benchmark*
http://www.overclock.net/8335172-post1.html


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## crazyeyesreaper (Apr 20, 2010)

BarbaricSoul said:


> read my post alittle closer Mussels
> 
> 
> 
> ...



which is why i suggested a Q6600 used  there a great alternative and oced to 3ghz they will be more then enough think about it if a phenom 9600 at 2.3ghz with low cache can max BC2 with better minimum frame rates at a dual core at 3.6 tells me a q6600 is more then enough as its far faster then a Phenom 9600 

my major point here is upgrade as cheap as possible to get more longevity out of the system and then when the time comes do a full overhaul to a new rig later q6600 will give him more muscle at a cheaper price and will get the job done.

also mussels you gotta remember the older phenoms had tiny L 3 cache aka 2mbs L3


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## Wile E (Apr 21, 2010)

Mussels said:


> the value for moneys just not there unless you can get one cheap... all the affordable 775 quads have tiny amounts of cache and low multis



It has more value for the OP's money as opposed to having to buy a whole new setup.

I disagree with you Mussels. The 775 quad clearly makes more sense for him in this case. He already has a board capable of using it.

If his board didn't support Yorkfield, I would agree with you, but his board does, so it's definitely the most logical choice. For the same price as the AMD and board, he can have a Q9505, which is the better cpu than a 955. Or, he can save himself $50 over both options, and just go with a Q9400, which will give him exactly what he wants, and leave him a little cash in his pocket for a game or a new mouse or hookers or something.

And lets face it, hookers > Phenom II.


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## boomstik360 (Apr 21, 2010)

Wile E said:


> It has more value for the OP's money as opposed to having to buy a whole new setup.
> 
> I disagree with you Mussels. The 775 quad clearly makes more sense for him in this case. He already has a board capable of using it.
> 
> ...



 Wow. 

If I were him, I would find a used cheap quad core, and buy a nice 5770/5830. That should be fine for a nice while.


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## Zen_ (Apr 21, 2010)

I looked into used 775 quads, Q6600 is around $150 and Q9550 around $200. Problem is though I don't have an enthusiast grade mobo that can do high FSB speeds. I've read elsewhere that it (MSI Neo3-F) will do around 380, maybe 400 MHz if you're lucky. So I wouldn't be able to do much overclocking with the lower multiplier quads unfortunately. 

Figured the difference between upgrading to a new AM3 setup or upgrading what I have now would be under $100 anyway. Might be the difference between a 5770 or 5850 but I don't think the 5850's will fit in my case due to the length. Still looking for size info on the dual fan Gigabyte 5850 with the power connectors on the side rather the rear. 

And thanks for those links TRIPTEX_MTL, that was exactly what I've been looking for (dual vs. quad online).


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## Jamborhgini313 (Apr 21, 2010)

I run the game at 1920x1080 16xCSAA HBAO On High quality on a 4Ghz i7 and GTX 295 stock. On a 32 Player map, I get around 50-70FPS avg and 35 min


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