# Help me fix slow and unreliable POST on Asus Prime X470-pro with Ballistix LT sport 3200



## Maxson (May 9, 2020)

Hi . I joined here to ask for help as this is the home of 1usmus  and the Ryzen DRAM calculator. I've been building and rebuilding my own PCs for 20+ years although I'm no expert on the latest hardware I have some experience. I feel like I'm very close to getting my RAM to POST quickly and reliably but it needs something and I don't know what yet. Since I built this new PC 6 moths ago I've asked on other forums, tried various suggestions people have made and tried ideas of my own and not quite got there. So I hope someone here will help me out.

I have a ASUS Prime X470-pro with R5 3600 cpu, 16gb 3200 ballistix LT sport (micron E die according to thaiphoon) and a Strix GTX960 and the newest BIOS. The fist thing I want to know is what is happening when my GPU fan is spinning fast and loud for about 8 seconds before my PC screen comes on? The GPU didn't do this on my old Asus P6T motherboard. Is the motherboard trying to train the RAM with many different settings and failing? Is it a Ryzen thing? Is it because my motherboard doesn't have the right built in settings as my RAM is not on the QVL?

I've tried various things and the only thing that affects this is changing the memory settings. So far if the PC will boot a memory test will find no errors and everything else will run with no errors. If I load optimised default settings in the BIOS it will set the RAM to run at 2400 and the GPU fan will spin fast and loud for what seems like a long time before the screen comes on and the PC boots up. At least it will boot up the same every time like this, but it's far from ideal.

If I activate DOCP in the BIOS the RAM runs at 3200 and Post/boot is the same most times but sometimes it gets stuck at the loud GPU fan stage and never boots until I press the reset button several times or hold the power button until it turns off and then turn it on again it might do the 8 seconds loud part and then boot.

I've been experimenting with the Ryzen DRAM calculator and with 3200 V2 safe settings all entered in the BIOS, sometimes the PC will boot very fast with the GPU fan only spinning for an instant before turning off and the screen coming on. Which is a tantalising glimpse of how good it can be but if I turn it off and switch off at the wall the next boot will have the loud GPU period of slow POST.

These are that settings I'm working from:


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## Maxson (May 10, 2020)

So can anyone offer advice on the best thing to try next?


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## harm9963 (May 10, 2020)

AMD Ryzen Memory Tweaking & Overclocking Guide
					

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## Maxson (May 10, 2020)

I've read that and used the calculator and I'm not sure what to try specifically for better POST reliability. I will get the new version of the calculator which I wasn't aware of.


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## Maxson (May 20, 2020)

So I've used the new calculator and the settings are better for my E-die based kit. I've got the memory running at 3600 and that's good. I'm still getting the 8 seconds of irritating GPU whine every boot up which could potentially wake my wife or a neighbour. Is there some other setting I can change to help? Is the only way to avoid that to use an Intel based build instead?

These are the settings I'm using:


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## tabascosauz (May 20, 2020)

Maxson said:


> So I've used the new calculator and the settings are better for my E-die based kit. I've got the memory running at 3600 and that's good. I'm still getting the 8 seconds of irritating GPU whine every boot up which could potentially wake my wife or a neighbour. Is there some other setting I can change to help? Is the only way to avoid that to use an Intel based build instead?
> 
> These are the settings I'm using:



I suspect full-speed-fans-phase is a firmware commonality on most 300- or 400- boards that have been BIOS updated to support Ryzen 3000. It happens on every boot on my B450I Aorus with a 3700X on the latest BIOSes, but is not present on the same B450I Aorus that my friend uses for a 2600X, as he uses the original F8 BIOS. It's also confirmed on other 400-series Gigabyte boards, but only when they run Matisse CPUs.

I've not found a way around it. Mine is about 5 seconds of full speed fans on an optimized Hynix DJR kit of Trident Z RGB, running at 3600 16-19-19-37-58-471-1T. The period can be longer if your RAM is less stable or runs at JEDEC 2133 speeds, as RAM training appears to take place during that noisy phase. The first kit I attempted to use, a Corsair Vengeance LPX kit, could only boot on one stick and was unstable at that - that kit would result in RAM training and noisy fans exceeding 30 seconds, after which it would finally POST (or not, half the time).

For the record, my 3200 Trident Z Samsung E-die kit did the same. My 3600 Trident Z RGB DJR kit does the same regardless of whether it's running 17-19-19-39 XMP, 16-19-19-39 XMP minus 1 tCL, the now deprecated DRAM calc recommendation 16-19-20-32, or the current faster and more stable 16-19-19-37.

On some soft reboots, the noisy fans only run for less than 1 second, but it is very much the rare exception.

I suspect a B550 or X570 board made with Ryzen 3000 out of the box will not share the same behaviour. That may extend to MSI MAX boards.


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## nguyen (May 20, 2020)

This probably occur when the board does some memory training, stress test to check if your RAM are stable then activate *fast boot* in Bios (no more memory training, faster boot).

My X570 Aorus Elite does this too (max GPU fan speed) with Hynix RAM, when I switched to Samsung B-die it no longer happen. Ryzen 3000 is still a little finicky with RAM ICs :/


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## Assimilator (May 20, 2020)

It's definitely memory training, AKA your CPU not being happy with something about your RAM.

Stupid question, you *have* updated to the latest BIOS for your board, right? Also, I assume you have 2x 8GB sticks? Please update your system specs with that info.

First things first, stop trying to overclock the RAM. Concentrate on getting it stable at its rated speed first and foremost to rule out the possibility that you have bad sticks. I would suggest using the DOCP profile and bumping the RAM voltage up a notch, e.g. to 1.375v.

I have a 3600X in a Crosshair VI Hero (X370) and the same Ballistix Sport LT E-die memory (although I have 2x 16GB and mine is only 3000MHz, but overclocked to 3200 100% stable) and don't have any RAM training or boot issues - my Win10 resumes from sleep almost instantly. Will check my BIOS settings later and let you know.


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## Maxson (May 20, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> I suspect full-speed-fans-phase is a firmware commonality on most 300- or 400- boards that have been BIOS updated to support Ryzen 3000. It happens on every boot on my B450I Aorus with a 3700X on the latest BIOSes, but is not present on the same B450I Aorus that my friend uses for a 2600X, as he uses the original F8 BIOS. It's also confirmed on other 400-series Gigabyte boards, but only when they run Matisse CPUs.
> 
> I've not found a way around it. Mine is about 5 seconds of full speed fans on an optimized Hynix DJR kit of Trident Z RGB, running at 3600 16-19-19-37-58-471-1T. The period can be longer if your RAM is less stable or runs at JEDEC 2133 speeds, as RAM training appears to take place during that noisy phase. The first kit I attempted to use, a Corsair Vengeance LPX kit, could only boot on one stick and was unstable at that - that kit would result in RAM training and noisy fans exceeding 30 seconds, after which it would finally POST (or not, half the time).
> 
> ...



It's good to hear that it's not just me. It could well be a motherboard BIOS issue.



nguyen said:


> This probably occur when the board does some memory training, stress test to check if your RAM are stable then activate *fast boot* in Bios (no more memory training, faster boot).
> 
> My X570 Aorus Elite does this too (max GPU fan speed) with Hynix RAM, when I switched to Samsung B-die it no longer happen. Ryzen 3000 is still a little finicky with RAM ICs :/



Fast boot on or off seems to make no difference. I have been wondering if changing to a Samsung B-die based kit but it would have to be guaranteed b-die. I would have to work out if it's worth it to fix what's just an annoyance now my existing kit is running as fast as I want it to.




Assimilator said:


> It's definitely memory training, AKA your CPU not being happy with something about your RAM.
> 
> Stupid question, you *have* updated to the latest BIOS for your board, right? Also, I assume you have 2x 8GB sticks? Please update your system specs with that info.
> 
> ...



Yes, I have the newest BIOS for my motherboard. I did get it stable at 3200 first, then I tried it at 3000 to see if the post issue would go away, then I tried 3400 settings and now 3600 settings are working. The post goes the same at all of those speeds with the setting from the calculator.

The only downside of 3600 is the CPU runs hotter at the faster RAM speed with the CPU still at stock which must be something like the increased voltages such as the soc voltage etc are higher in the 3600 settings. My ambition was to have the memory at 3400 so I may use that as my daily driver speed for the lower CPU temp.


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## Maxson (May 21, 2020)

Is there a time limit on editing my own posts? I wanted to edit and clarify my previous reply which I did in a bit of a hurry but I can't see an edit button.

Edit: Yes there must be a time limit.

I could try some good samsung b-die instead but it might not make any difference.  I could change to an X570 board but that doesn't seem that guaranteed either. If I'm changing board maybe I should wait for Ryzen 4000 and X670 and RAM designed for it or something like that.

So it doesn't look like there is a setting or combination of BIOS settings that can fix this 8 seconds of GPU fan whine.


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## tabascosauz (May 21, 2020)

Maxson said:


> Is there a time limit on editing my own posts? I wanted to edit and clarify my previous reply which I did in a bit of a hurry but I can't see an edit button.
> 
> Edit: Yes there must be a time limit.
> 
> ...



There's a memtesthelper DDR4 OC guide for both Intel and Ryzen 3000 platforms. There's a lot of advice in there on what to do with specific subtimings, which ones make a difference, and the tweaking rules that they follow. Give it a shot and see if it results in better boot times for you.

It may or may not make a difference. Ryzen DRAM calc is not the holy grail of DDR4; it only makes general, often flawed or broken recommendations, and the subtimings can be laughably off even in the Fast presets. For example, the old CJR DJR preset before 1.7.0 disobeyed the tRAS rule and added an unnecessary performance and latency penalty for no reason.

Your best bet would honestly be a X570 board, but I can't sit here and speculate on ehat might or might not fix a problem that's not well documented.

Even if you buy higher end B-die kits, the quality of the IC isn't guaranteed, much less the boot behaviour on your particular board. But if they have a generous no frills return policy in the first 2 weeks, you could try.


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## nguyen (May 21, 2020)

Maxson said:


> Is there a time limit on editing my own posts? I wanted to edit and clarify my previous reply which I did in a bit of a hurry but I can't see an edit button.
> 
> Edit: Yes there must be a time limit.
> 
> ...



Nah I have the X570 Aorus Elite that has the same issue as yours, basically with Hynix RAM my board would cycle boot 2-3 times before it boot normally (turn on with max GPU fans then off then on again). I think this issue is because Manufacturer did a bait and switch with its memory IC where they use a different memory IC after a while, making the board sort of confused. The Hynix ram I got was the Aorus RGB memory that supposedly use samsung b-die (even say Samsung IC in the QVL) but my sticks are Hynix. 

After that I tried 2 sticks of real samsung b-die and the problem was gone, clock it to 3600mhz 16-16-16-32 1T and the board boot up lightning fast.

Now there are easy way to look for Samsung b-die, you can check with the Asus Memory QVL for the RAM Serial which have Samsung IC. Usually with G.Skill the 3600mhz kit with 16-16-16-36 timing use Samsung and 3600mhz 16-18-18-38 use Hynix.


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## Maxson (May 22, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> There's a memtesthelper DDR4 OC guide for both Intel and Ryzen 3000 platforms. There's a lot of advice in there on what to do with specific subtimings, which ones make a difference, and the tweaking rules that they follow. Give it a shot and see if it results in better boot times for you.



This guide? https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md There's lots of info in there to read! This is the only setting mentioned to specifically help with training:

"In this case, the voltage to increase for more successful RAM training is VDDG CCD."​
So I'm going to try increasing VDDG CCD voltage a little to 1.05 and see if that helps.

Also ProcODT is mentioned as helping boot stability. Has anyone had success with that?



> It may or may not make a difference. Ryzen DRAM calc is not the holy grail of DDR4; it only makes general, often flawed or broken recommendations, and the subtimings can be laughably off even in the Fast presets. For example, the old CJR DJR preset before 1.7.0 disobeyed the tRAS rule and added an unnecessary performance and latency penalty for no reason.


Most seem to treat the DRAM calc as the be all and end all so that's an eye opener!


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## Assimilator (May 22, 2020)

I had a look in my BIOS, and the only thing I can see that may affect memory training is under Extreme Tweaker > DRAM Timing Control > Mem Over Clock Fail Count - mine is set to Auto.



Maxson said:


> Most seem to treat the DRAM calc as the be all and end all so that's an eye opener!



It's a recommendation, that's all it ever can and will be, because everybody's CPU and motherboard and RAM are different, and there are so many different combinations. The setting it suggests for my E-die kit don't allow my system to boot, but I honestly didn't expect a magic bullet.


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## tabascosauz (May 22, 2020)

Maxson said:


> This guide? https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/master/DDR4 OC Guide.md There's lots of info in there to read! This is the only setting mentioned to specifically help with training:
> 
> "In this case, the voltage to increase for more successful RAM training is VDDG CCD."​
> So I'm going to try increasing VDDG CCD voltage a little to 1.05 and see if that helps.
> ...



That's the guide, yeah. Most of it is an amalgamation of advice and overclocking experience from different forum members. It's a little bit hectic, and some aspects don't make clear whether all ICs can do it or if the suggestion is only for B-die, but there are certainly a number of implementations that you can experiment with.

procODT seems to be different depending on which Ryzen family your CPU is from. I think Matisse requires a lower 20-40ohm procODT, but don't quote me on that. I don't think the old recommendation of 40+ on Ryzen 1000/2000 works anymore.

DRAM calc is a great place to get started, because the initial overclocking steps in the memtesthelper guide require a lot of time (take each timing one at a time, lower by 1 until it can't boot anymore, etc).


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## Maxson (May 23, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> I had a look in my BIOS, and the only thing I can see that may affect memory training is under Extreme Tweaker > DRAM Timing Control > Mem Over Clock Fail Count - mine is set to Auto.



I can't find that setting in my BIOS.


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## Mac2580 (May 23, 2020)

Maxson said:


> I can't find that setting in my BIOS.



AI Tweaker 》DRAM Timing Control》its right at the bottom. I have to say that the board does worry me at times. Im running a R5 1600X at stock no boost with QVL memory. Now and then (1/20 boots) i get no display output at all and holding down case power button doesnt turn PC off until i toggle the PSU switch. No major issues other than that but I do find it odd. Especially with the "forgiving" components im using.


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## Maxson (May 24, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> That's the guide, yeah. Most of it is an amalgamation of advice and overclocking experience from different forum members. It's a little bit hectic, and some aspects don't make clear whether all ICs can do it or if the suggestion is only for B-die, but there are certainly a number of implementations that you can experiment with.
> 
> procODT seems to be different depending on which Ryzen family your CPU is from. I think Matisse requires a lower 20-40ohm procODT, but don't quote me on that. I don't think the old recommendation of 40+ on Ryzen 1000/2000 works anymore.
> 
> DRAM calc is a great place to get started, because the initial overclocking steps in the memtesthelper guide require a lot of time (take each timing one at a time, lower by 1 until it can't boot anymore, etc).


So I tried upping procODT to 53.3 and VDDG CCD voltage to 1.06 and that didn't help.

The guide and the calc don't have info on these settings in my BIOS: TRCPAGE, TRFC2 and TRFC4 and I'm wondering if those will help.

Also I'm wondering if any of these voltages at the bottom of my bios screen will help:





And after searching the internet I found the advanced tab on the calculator:





Has anyone tried using these advanced settings? I found out that VTT DDR = 1/2 * vDRAM, so 0.68.


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## tabascosauz (May 24, 2020)

What are you trying to achieve? I really don't think POST behaviour can be changed that much just by tweaking settings on one kit, especially not when you dislike the pre-POST fan behaviour and are looking to eliminate it entirely. 

tRCPAGE, tRFC2 and tRFC4 should be left on auto. tRCPAGE is never included in DRAM calc profiles, and the board will automatically calculate tRFC2 and tRFC4 based on tRFC. I'm not sure why you set procODT so high; it's not on a scale like Vdram and more is definitely not better.

As to the voltages, BZ has probably mentioned some of them in one video or another on his X570-I. 

You might have to try different RAM kits, then different boards if that doesn't change the POST behaviour. I sound like a broken record when I reiterate that this is a 3200/16 kit; this combination of freq/timings is the PC community's equivalent of a mystery meat doner kebab - you never know what ICs you're going to get because there's a dozen different possibilities, and half of them are going to be garbage quality chips. Step up to 3200/14 or 3600/16 if you want some semblance of quality standards.


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## Maxson (May 24, 2020)

Mac2580 said:


> AI Tweaker 》DRAM Timing Control》its right at the bottom.



It's not there on mine:





My guess is they removed it as it has potential to make your system fail to boot, leading to too many RMAs of non-faulty boards.



> I have to say that the board does worry me at times. Im running a R5 1600X at stock no boost with QVL memory. Now and then (1/20 boots) i get no display output at all and holding down case power button doesnt turn PC off until i toggle the PSU switch. No major issues other than that but I do find it odd. Especially with the "forgiving" components im using.



That's one of the things that used to happen on mine until I used settings from the 1.7.3 calculator. QVL is not the be-all and end-all of RAM stability. It's just not that easy on Ryzen for many people it seems.



tabascosauz said:


> What are you trying to achieve? I really don't think POST behaviour can be changed that much just by tweaking settings on one kit, especially not when you dislike the pre-POST fan behaviour and are looking to eliminate it entirely.
> 
> tRCPAGE, tRFC2 and tRFC4 should be left on auto. tRCPAGE is never included in DRAM calc profiles, and the board will automatically calculate tRFC2 and tRFC4 based on tRFC. I'm not sure why you set procODT so high; it's not on a scale like Vdram and more is definitely not better.
> 
> As to the voltages, BZ has probably mentioned some of them in one video or another on his X570-I.



I read either on the guide you suggested or on 1usmus guide on techpowerup that increasing procODT as high as 60 can help with POST. It didn't

Having gone from sometimes not booting at all on XMP settings to booting every time, I feel like the more settings I adjust the better it might get! I know I might be flogging a dead horse with this 8 second GPU fan period though.


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## Maxson (May 25, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> You might have to try different RAM kits, then different boards if that doesn't change the POST behaviour. I sound like a broken record when I reiterate that this is a 3200/16 kit; this combination of freq/timings is the PC community's equivalent of a mystery meat doner kebab - you never know what ICs you're going to get because there's a dozen different possibilities, and half of them are going to be garbage quality chips. Step up to 3200/14 or 3600/16 if you want some semblance of quality standards.



I can understand a less premium kit not overclocking so high but for it to cause my PC to never boot as it should? It actually overclocks well, I got it to 3600 and apparently it will do 3800 and yet it seems impossible to get it to boot quickly from cold:









I'm disappointed that reviewers and build guide makers etc don't talk much about this problem that seems to be related to memory training. In build guides it's often just enable DOCP and off you go. I can understand they want to make PC building seem fun and easy but the truth is it sometimes isn't and it seems like lots of people are having the same trouble I am.

I'm at the point where I want to try some samsung b-die. The kit has to be definitely b-die and these kits actually say that in the details: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pc-components/memory/ddr4?ckSuppliers=432&ckTab=0&sPage=1&sSort=3 and I like the 3600 CL14: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3600mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-001-8p.html

Alternatively Buildzoid rates these Patriot kits and says they are B-die: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/product...16-gb-2-x-8-gb-ddr4-4000-memory-pvs416g400c9k

These kits are 2x the price of my Ballistix so I hope it will be worth it.


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## tabascosauz (May 25, 2020)

Maxson said:


> I can understand a less premium kit not overclocking so high but for it to cause my PC to never boot as it should? It actually overclocks well, I got it to 3600 and apparently it will do 3800 and yet it seems impossible to get it to boot quickly from cold:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And therein lies the issue of AM4's socket longevity. Each vendor provides individual BIOS updates for each of their last-gen boards, and they make absolutely no guarantees as to the functionality (aside from basic CPU support) or performance. If you happen to have a high-volume board from a popular vendor, chances are things will be just peachy. If you have a niche board from a vendor not known for timely or quality BIOS updates, then good luck.

Besides, how many of these sponsored Youtubers are going to complain on camera about the UEFI on the boards they've been sent? At least buildzoid has had a long working relationship with Gigabyte, and Gigabyte has always been relatively open to constructive criticism. Yeah, they make BIOSes that look and sometimes function like crap, but try getting that kind of transparency from Asus.

Everyone believes that this undying platform is reason for joyous celebration, but it always cuts both ways. Intel almost never has to accommodate major architectural changes on any one given socket; that's why their products are indisputably much more no-frills and plug-and-play than AM4 will ever be. The vast majority of the Intel sockets only ever had to accommodate a die shrink on the 2nd generation.

Good B-die will never be "affordable" compared to Rev.E and CJR, because you get what you pay for. If it's not a serious financial decision, I think you haven't got much to lose to try some buildzoid-approved B-die.


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## Chomiq (May 25, 2020)

Sport LTs 3200 CL16 here on x570. Fans always spin at max on boot, no matter what settings I use. So no, upgrading to x570 won't solve your issues. 10-12 sec boot is the fastest you can get with fast boot enabled and nvme. Except that might still show power 41 errors in event log, despite system powering off correctly. Disabling fast startup in windows made that go away with no major increase in boot time. 3600 cl16 is stable on mine, 3733 requires tweaking.


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## Maxson (May 25, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> Besides, how many of these sponsored Youtubers are going to complain on camera about the UEFI on the boards they've been sent? At least buildzoid has had a long working relationship with Gigabyte, and Gigabyte has always been relatively open to constructive criticism. Yeah, they make BIOSes that look and sometimes function like crap, but try getting that kind of transparency from Asus.


You don't even hear youtubers that favour intel mentioning this issue with AMD platforms. It seems strange. I haven't seen a video explaining this issue and promoting a b-die kit that resolves it. You would think that was a good video to get sponsored by a memory kit maker!



> Everyone believes that this undying platform is reason for joyous celebration, but it always cuts both ways. Intel almost never has to accommodate major architectural changes on any one given socket; that's why their products are indisputably much more no-frills and plug-and-play than AM4 will ever be. The vast majority of the Intel sockets only ever had to accommodate a die shrink on the 2nd generation.


Could be a problem with the age of the DDR4 standard as well. I've learned that all these kits and the AMD CPUs are made to run memory overclocked and outside of the DDR4 standard so it must be hard to make a BIOS that works perfectly with everything all the time.



Chomiq said:


> Sport LTs 3200 CL16 here on x570. Fans always spin at max on boot, no matter what settings I use. So no, upgrading to x570 won't solve your issues. 10-12 sec boot is the fastest you can get with fast boot enabled and nvme. Except that might still show power 41 errors in event log, despite system powering off correctly. Disabling fast startup in windows made that go away with no major increase in boot time. 3600 cl16 is stable on mine, 3733 requires tweaking.



Thanks for confirming this. Knowing that X570 isn't the answer could save me £100s and lots of time. This Ballistix kit we're using is presumably made for Intel systems and will boot properly on those. According to the Crucial website and asking their support the kit is fully compatible with my mobo and CPU. I know lots of people will just run the motherboard at default settings and the RAM therefore at 2400 and put up with the slow boot. To me if it behaves the way it does it's not fully compatible and they shouldn't say it is.


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## Chomiq (May 25, 2020)

Maxson said:


> Thanks for confirming this. Knowing that X570 isn't the answer could save me £100s and lots of time. This Ballistix kit we're using is presumably made for Intel systems and will boot properly on those. According to the Crucial website and asking their support the kit is fully compatible with my mobo and CPU. I know lots of people will just run the motherboard at default settings and the RAM therefore at 2400 and put up with the slow boot. To me if it behaves the way it does it's not fully compatible and they shouldn't say it is.


Fans spinning up at boot AFAIK is standard behavior for Ryzen 3000, no matter what kit you use. You can fight it, swap memory kits, boards but it probably won't disappear.

Either way it's the cheapest e-die that can pull off 3800-3733 when paired with ryzen 3000. I have no regrets about buying it.


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## Maxson (May 25, 2020)

This standard behaviour for Ryzen 3000 feels like a downgrade from my 10 year old PC. I had high hopes for for fast booting with UEFI.


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## CubanB (May 28, 2020)

These are the little things that people don't talk about often with AMD vs Intel.  It's benchmarks or price, but not the little intangible things that contribute to a good or bad experience overall.  I understand if there's a post delay but I don't understand why the fans need to spin so loudly and why there couldn't be a provisional that makes them spin at 50% during this process instead of 100%.

Either way, I've found this thread very helpful.. I must say, I'm new here but this forum is a great resource.  Sorry that I can't help the OP anymore than that, as I'm new to Ryzen.


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## Caring1 (May 28, 2020)

CubanB said:


> .....
> Either way, I've found this thread very helpful.. I must say, I'm new here but this forum is a great resource.  Sorry that I can't help the OP anymore than that, as I'm new to Ryzen.


Welcome.


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## CubanB (May 29, 2020)

Cheers.  Is that Sunshine Coast QLD?  If so, we live a few hours away.


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## Caring1 (May 29, 2020)

CubanB said:


> Cheers.  Is that Sunshine Coast QLD?  If so, we live a few hours away.


Sure is.


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## Maxson (May 30, 2020)

So I ordered some 3600 CL14 Samsung b-die RAM and it's arrived and installed. I got this one: https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3600mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-001-8p.html

This is what Thaiphoon shows:






I enabled DOCP and this is what CPUZ shows, not sure why tRC is so high.



Unfortunately it failed to boot from cold the next time until I pressed the reset button. What's the next thing to try? According to 1usmus guide I should tune proc ODT and RTT next. Most people suggest upping the SOC voltage as one of the first things to do.


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## tabascosauz (May 30, 2020)

@Maxson 









						MemTestHelper/DDR4 OC Guide.md at master · integralfx/MemTestHelper
					

C# WPF to automate HCI MemTest. Contribute to integralfx/MemTestHelper development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com
				




There shouldn't really be a need for SoC over 1.1 on Ryzen 3000. Safe SoC voltage is different than it used to be on Summit and Pinnacle, so don't follow those old recommendations from 2018 reddit threads.

Use this program called ZenTimings (simple program found on Github) to easily check all your current timings in Windows:









						Releases · irusanov/ZenTimings
					

Contribute to irusanov/ZenTimings development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com


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## sneekypeet (May 30, 2020)

Personally, looking at this thread, I have to say your issue is not with the RAM. To have both kits giving you issues with DOCP enabled tells me it is not the RAM.

I use a 3600X with a Crosshar Hero Wi-Fi, and I have yet to have a sampled set of DDR4 fail to run on DOCP settings, no matter when they were made, no matter the ICs. (I should specify that the previous comment applies to two-stick kits, I have had 4 stick kits not make the rated speed due to density)
My guess would be a crap IMC on that 3600 CPU, or you have some sort of BIOS/motherboard issues going on. You really should not have to go through all of this to get it to run.


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## Maxson (May 30, 2020)

tabascosauz said:


> @Maxson
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll have a look at zentimings in the morning, thanks. I'm going to clear CMOS as well before trying anything else.


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## Assimilator (May 30, 2020)

sneekypeet said:


> Personally, looking at this thread, I have to say your issue is not with the RAM. To have both kits giving you issues with DOCP enabled tells me it is not the RAM.
> 
> I use a 3600X with a Crosshar Hero Wi-Fi, and I have yet to have a sampled set of DDR4 fail to run on DOCP settings, no matter when they were made, no matter the ICs. (I should specify that the previous comment applies to two-stick kits, I have had 4 stick kits not make the rated speed due to density)
> My guess would be a crap IMC on that 3600 CPU, or you have some sort of BIOS/motherboard issues going on. You really should not have to go through all of this to get it to run.





Maxson said:


> This standard behaviour for Ryzen 3000 feels like a downgrade from my 10 year old PC. I had high hopes for for fast booting with UEFI.



I agree with peet, what you are experiencing is NOT NORMAL - as I've said before, my Crosshair VI Hero + 3600X + Ballistix 2x 16GB boots quietly and quickly.

Found this random thread where a person with the same board and issue was sorted via a CMOS clear: https://forums.tweaktown.com/asus/66618-asus-prime-470-pro-post-windows-boot-time.html - you've already said you're going to clear CMOS so let us know if it helps. If not, I'd suggest contacting Asus directly.


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## Maxson (May 31, 2020)

sneekypeet said:


> Personally, looking at this thread, I have to say your issue is not with the RAM. To have both kits giving you issues with DOCP enabled tells me it is not the RAM.
> 
> I use a 3600X with a Crosshar Hero Wi-Fi, and I have yet to have a sampled set of DDR4 fail to run on DOCP settings, no matter when they were made, no matter the ICs. (I should specify that the previous comment applies to two-stick kits, I have had 4 stick kits not make the rated speed due to density)
> My guess would be a crap IMC on that 3600 CPU, or you have some sort of BIOS/motherboard issues going on. You really should not have to go through all of this to get it to run.



Maybe it's because your CPU and motherboard are better than mine. In another forum it's been suggested that flashing to an older BIOS with AGESA 1.0.0.3 ab might fix this issue. I think I'd prefer to wait for a new BIOS to come out than use an old one.



Assimilator said:


> I agree with peet, what you are experiencing is NOT NORMAL - as I've said before, my Crosshair VI Hero + 3600X + Ballistix 2x 16GB boots quietly and quickly.
> 
> Found this random thread where a person with the same board and issue was sorted via a CMOS clear: https://forums.tweaktown.com/asus/66618-asus-prime-470-pro-post-windows-boot-time.html - you've already said you're going to clear CMOS so let us know if it helps. If not, I'd suggest contacting Asus directly.


I shouldn't have to do all this and it seems my motherboard is doing something wrong but if I can tweak a couple of settings and get it nearer where I want to be then it doesn't matter if my experience is normal. Maybe it's because my motherboard choice is unusual but I had my reasons, features I wanted to have and not wanting an X570 with the fan though I've since found out that the fan on X570 doesn't normally come on during day to day use.

On the other hand there are people reporting the same issues with an X570 chipset in this thread.

I've done a full CMOS clear by removing the battery. Without changing any memory settings in the BIOS so it's running at 2400 I've had my first fast boot from cold so that's progress although I don't want to run my at 2400. The next boot from cold I had 4 seconds of the loud GPU period. From there I've enabled DOCP to get the memory running at XMP speed and the next cold boot wasn't fast but not the slowest. I'll see how it goes with the next few power cycles.


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## Deleted member 193792 (May 31, 2020)

I have the exact same issues. Ryzen 3600/X470 with 64GB RAM (4 DIMMs, Hynix CJR, DR) @ 3600 MHz CL16. 14 sec POST time (only with CSM, pure UEFI is longer <-- go figure!). Windows 10 booting with NVMe isn't particularly fast either (could be the GPU driver stalling or Razer bloatware, dunno).

Sometimes it fails POST, sometimes it doesn't. I've tried literally everything. MemTest doesn't give me any errors during stress test.

What's funny is that whenever if fails POSTing and goes back to JEDEC 2133 MHz, I just enter the BIOS, re-select the OC profile and it boots just fine!

TBH, I don't mind the GPU noise, I consider it as an acoustic feedback for DRAM training failures.  I just wish POST never failed again! It happens once in every 5-10 reboots or something. Sometimes during cold boot as well.

I know using 4 sticks really pushes the IMC, but this intermittent POST failure is very weird and some people argue it didn't happen with ABBA 1.0.0.3 (I've only tried 1.0.0.4 and afterwards).

Regarding 1usmus DRAM calculator, I don't know what to say anymore. I've tried to contact Yuri myself and I got a recommendation (not all values) which is very different from v1.7.0-1.7.3 (yes, I've tried all versions) recommendations.

This guy here has a similar setup, but with a different CPU:


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/dh30dw

Does anyone know if the I/O die is of different binning quality depending on the model (i.e. 3600 vs 3900X)? I know chiplets are binned, not sure about the I/O die.


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## CubanB (Jun 3, 2020)

I don't think AMD have ever officially commented on it, but from reading AMD reddit in the last 12 months, I get the impression... that yes they are.  There's always a bit of silicon lottery about it, but it has seemed that you're more likely to a get a high performing IMC with the more expensive CPUs.  I'm not sure if there is a way to prove it definatively though.  And if this is true, it's not a huge difference between the best and worst.  The XT refresh series is said to have increased IMC/IF capability as well but that could just be rumor.  As these are yet to be officially confirmed or announced.


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## CiroConsentino (Aug 16, 2020)

I just upgraded from a 2nd gen Intel 2600 to a Ryzen 7 3700X, ASUS TUF Gaming B550-Plus motherboard, 16GB (2x8GB) Crucial Ballistix SportLT 3200MHz CL16-18-18-36 (model BL2K8G32C16U4R). I already have a RTX 2080 and I'm really worried/scared by the 3 to 4 seconds GPU "turbine" fan noise  I'm worried this will damage my very expensive video card. I've been an Intel CPU user for the last 25 years, this is my first AMD CPU, and it was not cheap (damn pandemic!). The POST on this system is slower even compared to my 9 years old Intel 2nd gen rig 
CPU-Z reports my RAM to be a DDR-4 2666MHz and not 3200MHz...

When in Windows and heavy gaming, GPU fan is super quiet, only at boot/reboot the GPU fan goes nuts... and I reboot Windows quite a lot, specially after exiting a game (don't trust Windows memory management).


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## Assimilator (Aug 16, 2020)

CiroConsentino said:


> I already have a RTX 2080 and I'm really worried/scared by the 3 to 4 seconds GPU "turbine" fan noise  I'm worried this will damage my very expensive video card.



What rational reason would cause you to believe the card would be damaged by functioning normally?



CiroConsentino said:


> CPU-Z reports my RAM to be a DDR-4 2666MHz and not 3200MHz...



You haven't enabled XMP in the BIOS.



CiroConsentino said:


> I reboot Windows quite a lot, specially after exiting a game (don't trust Windows memory management).



That's dumb. Stop doing that.


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## CiroConsentino (Aug 16, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> What rational reason would cause you to believe the card would be damaged by functioning normally?


I've been playing games with this card for almost 2 years and never seen the FANs spin at full speed like that. It got me really worried. This card is quiet and it runs cool even at full load.


Assimilator said:


> That's dumb. Stop doing that.


I've been playing in Windows 7. Started playing games with Windows 10 after the 2004 update. Win10 feels a lot more stable after the May update. Now I can start using Win10 as my main OS... finally!


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## CiroConsentino (Aug 17, 2020)

Huh, only one of the 3 FANs spin like a jet turbine, the other two FANs spin normally, as they did with my old 2nd gen Core I7 2600.


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## Maxson (Aug 18, 2020)

A new BIOS came out for my motherboard with the latest AGESA 1006 and it's definitely better. I enabled DOCP and it's booting reliably. I'm still having the GPU fan spinning fast for a few seconds at POST but I'm becoming resigned to putting up with that until the next CPU and motherboard.






						PRIME X470-PRO｜Motherboards｜ASUS United Kingdom
					

ASUS Prime series is expertly engineered to unleash the full potential of AMD and Intel processors. Boasting a robust power design, comprehensive cooling solutions and intelligent tuning options, Prime series motherboards provide daily users and DIY PC builders a range of performance tuning...




					www.asus.com


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## CiroConsentino (Aug 31, 2020)

I'm not upgrading the BIOS on my ASUS B550 new board, it's being said to cause more problems than anything else. uh-uh... no sir!


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## Maxson (Aug 31, 2020)

CiroConsentino said:


> I'm not upgrading the BIOS on my ASUS B550 new board, it's being said to cause more problems than anything else. uh-uh... no sir!


Yeah sometimes a new BIOS is not better.


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