# help with undervolting 5800x3d



## Jacks. (Oct 15, 2022)

i'm trying to do undervolting 5800x3d with pbo2 but it's not working at all i tried from -5 to -50 but nothing
idle is 43 under load is 90 cb r23
i did follow the method here 5800x3d-owners but nothing it's like it's not applying the setting i enter the only thing that works is on the limits > temp limit i can set it to 80 and it apply and work anything else is not working,i did flash back to bios 4006 and tried but got nothing  my specs are 
asus viii ch hero wifi
bios 4201
lian li galahad 360
32 gb crucial ballistix ram 3600mhz
asus 3080 ti
win 10
everything is up to date


----------



## cvaldes (Oct 16, 2022)

Not possible:









						AMD's Ryzen 7 5800X3D doesn't support overclocking or PBO. Zilch
					

AMD's newest chip doesn't overclock, undervolt, or support PBO.




					www.pcgamer.com
				




There's likely a much more technical explanation floating somewhere on the Internet. If you have the level of technical knowledge to comprehend such a discussion you should be able to find it with a search engine.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 16, 2022)

@Jacks. you have the right idea, but CO on any CPU only goes up to -30.

5800X3D is hard locked to 4550MHz (in reality 4450MHz due to the difficulty of actually reaching 4550 in anything other than benchmarks). It has no Boost Override like other Zen 3 CPUs, so it's hard to tell if your undervolt actually improves anything, until you set a bigger offset than say -15. Even then, it's easy to get to 4450MHz with good cooling, so the performance boost is minimal.

As for temps, you need to set lower power limits in addition to setting curve optimizer, to get the biggest temp reduction. I run -30 all core on mine, combined with 90/65/90 limits.

PBO2 Tuner settings will reset after every reboot, because of how the 5800X3D works. You can create a Task to run it on boot. I'll send the link to the guide later.


----------



## Colddecked (Oct 16, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> i'm trying to do undervolting 5800x3d with pbo2 but it's not working at all i tried from -5 to -50 but nothing
> idle is 43 under load is 90 cb r23
> i did follow the method here 5800x3d-owners but nothing it's like it's not applying the setting i enter the only thing that works is on the limits > temp limit i can set it to 80 and it apply and work anything else is not working,i did flash back to bios 4006 and tried but got nothing  my specs are
> asus viii ch hero wifi
> ...



Do you have armory crate installed?



cvaldes said:


> Not possible:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Its very possible, I'm using PBO2 tuner on mine.


----------



## cvaldes (Oct 16, 2022)

Colddecked said:


> Its very possible, I'm using PBO2 tuner on mine.



I stand corrected.

TPU Participant 1 - 0 AMD Tech Marketing

Curious that AMD said it couldn't be done. And that PCGamer believed them. Or perhaps the more likely they gave the answer that pertains to all but the most persistent amateur overclockers.

Is it stable?


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 16, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> @Jacks. you have the right idea, but CO on any CPU only goes up to -30.
> 
> 5800X3D is hard locked to 4550MHz (in reality 4450MHz due to the difficulty of actually reaching 4550 in anything other than benchmarks). It has no Boost Override like other Zen 3 CPUs, so it's hard to tell if your undervolt actually improves anything, until you set a bigger offset than say -15. Even then, it's easy to get to 4450MHz with good cooling, so the performance boost is minimal.
> 
> ...


i'm trying to use pbo tuner it does not matter what value i enter it wouldn't work and i'm no looking for performance boost just temps that doesn't reach 90c ,i did follow a guide from the page i mentioned in the post but got me nothing but if you have a better one please share it 


Colddecked said:


> Do you have armory crate installed?


yes why?


----------



## Mussels (Oct 16, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> Not possible:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes it is.
It depends on your motherboard and BIOS as much as anything else - a lot of settings are hidden away in the AMD sections of the BIOS, after being disabled in the 'brand name' area.


Make sure to do a CMOS reset and 'load optimised defaults' as that helped mine get off the 5800x settings from the previous CPU.



cvaldes said:


> I stand corrected.
> 
> TPU Participant 1 - 0 AMD Tech Marketing
> 
> ...


You cant do a TRADITIONAL overclock. You can lower PBO settings and adjust the temp limits on almost any board with the software, and some boards like mine let you set an offset voltage - too low and it lowers performance, but balanced just right its free performance.


Heres a link to one of the modded BIOS that allows more settings to work in the BIOS for the Crosshair 8 - make sure it matches your board, read the thread and look for your exact variant
ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Overclocking & Discussion Thread | Page 565 | Overclock.net


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 16, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> i'm trying to use pbo tuner it does not matter what value i enter it wouldn't work and i'm no looking for performance boost just temps that doesn't reach 90c ,i did follow a guide from the page i mentioned in the post but got me nothing but if you have a better one please share it
> 
> yes why?



I'm pretty sure you need to remount your 360mm AIO if you're reaching 91C at 95W...... I'm at something like 82C at 120W on a dinky air cooler with -30. Or about 85C at 100W no CO.

What is "wouldn't work"? If you quit PBO2 Tuner after applying -30, and it shows -30 when you open the program again, then it was already set correctly. Make sure your cooler contact is good.


----------



## puma99dk| (Oct 16, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm pretty sure you need to remount your 360mm AIO if you're reaching 91C at 95W...... I'm at something like 82C at 120W on a dinky air cooler with -30. Or about 85C at 100W no CO.
> 
> What is "wouldn't work"? If you quit PBO2 Tuner after applying -30, and it shows -30 when you open the program again, then it was already set correctly. Make sure your cooler contact is good.



The Ryzen 7 5800X3D has so much potential even if there ain't overclocking present just find the sweet spot when undervolting but that 360 Galahad is up to no good even with default volts on my Dark Hero board my Noctua NH-D15 chrome.max does better.

@Jacks. welcome to TPU and please also fill out System Specs it helps out a lot instead of just writing it in the post


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 16, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I'm pretty sure you need to remount your 360mm AIO if you're reaching 91C at 95W...... I'm at something like 82C at 120W on a dinky air cooler with -30. Or about 85C at 100W no CO.
> 
> What is "wouldn't work"? If you quit PBO2 Tuner after applying -30, and it shows -30 when you open the program again, then it was already set correctly. Make sure your cooler contact is good.


cooler contact is good i checked that twice ,i was able yesterday to get it under control with modifying the values in the limits tab didn't exceed 87c in cb r23 scoring 14200 no matter what values i enter in the curve tab it didn't do anything and yes it shows -30 when i open the program again , i will check the mount for the third time i just ordered Kryonaut Thermal Paste for absolutely no reason except being very sure of everything
i'm still waiting for this guide 


puma99dk| said:


> The Ryzen 7 5800X3D has so much potential even if there ain't overclocking present just find the sweet spot when undervolting but that 360 Galahad is up to no good even with default volts on my Dark Hero board my Noctua NH-D15 chrome.max does better.
> 
> @Jacks. welcome to TPU and please also fill out System Specs it helps out a lot instead of just writing it in the post


the Galahad is not good  you're kidding right ?!! it was doing a good job on 5600x and 5700x i can't afford to buy another cooler
btw you have Dark Hero board i heard that curve optimizer is available in the bios on it is that true?


----------



## Colddecked (Oct 16, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> i'm trying to use pbo tuner it does not matter what value i enter it wouldn't work and i'm no looking for performance boost just temps that doesn't reach 90c ,i did follow a guide from the page i mentioned in the post but got me nothing but if you have a better one please share it
> 
> yes why?


I believe something in armory crate interferes with however pbo2 tuner works because it also doesn't work on my asus laptop with zen3 cpu.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 16, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> cooler contact is good i checked that twice ,i was able yesterday to get it under control with modifying the values in the limits tab didn't exceed 87c in cb r23 scoring 14200 no matter what values i enter in the curve tab it didn't do anything and yes it shows -30 when i open the program again , i will check the mount for the third time i just ordered Kryonaut Thermal Paste for absolutely no reason except being very sure of everything
> i'm still waiting for this guide
> 
> the Galahad is not good  you're kidding right ?!! it was doing a good job on 5600x and 5700x i can't afford to buy another cooler
> btw you have Dark Hero board i heard that curve optimizer is available in the bios on it is that true?



The guide is for making PBO2 Tuner start at boot, not for troubleshooting:









						How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner
					

Get the Most out of your 5800X3D using PBO Curve Optimizer! - How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/README.md at main · PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2...




					github.com
				




Didn't know about Armoury Crate, that's a good thing to check. 4006 and 4201 both working on Impact for me, I don't use Asus software.

Use HWInfo for better monitoring, and watch Effective clock during R23 for changes to clocks. 87C for stock isn't really all that bad, but 87C for -30 is pretty bad. The low score is kinda understandable on 4201 (AGESA 1207 bad for clocks) but your temps are just strange, even stock


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 16, 2022)

That's one hot sucker you got there....Even my air cooled i7 12700K runs much cooler during Cinebench R23 in the summer...

What is you ambient (room) temp?


----------



## puma99dk| (Oct 16, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> cooler contact is good i checked that twice ,i was able yesterday to get it under control with modifying the values in the limits tab didn't exceed 87c in cb r23 scoring 14200 no matter what values i enter in the curve tab it didn't do anything and yes it shows -30 when i open the program again , i will check the mount for the third time i just ordered Kryonaut Thermal Paste for absolutely no reason except being very sure of everything
> i'm still waiting for this guide
> 
> the Galahad is not good  you're kidding right ?!! it was doing a good job on 5600x and 5700x i can't afford to buy another cooler
> btw you have Dark Hero board i heard that curve optimizer is available in the bios on it is that true?


Where did you mount the rad top or front? if you have it in the front I would try the top and wise versa to find the best cooling portenial.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 16, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Use HWInfo for better monitoring, and watch Effective clock during R23 for changes to clocks. 87C for stock isn't really all that bad, but 87C for -30 is pretty bad. The low score is kinda understandable on 4201 (AGESA 1207 bad for clocks) but your temps are just strange, even stock


so i gave it another shot here btw this was the guide i followed which you posted here anyway here is the result note that not limits were applied only curve and i have shutdown every asus task form task manager before the test ,note the temps in the pic ? it dropped very quickly after the test finished doesn't that mean that the cooler is working fine ?


 i'm completely lost and i don't know what to do i have no spare mb to try and no other cooler plus i starting to think i got a bad silicon


P4-630 said:


> What is you ambient (room) temp?


i have no idea like maybe 28 or 29


puma99dk| said:


> Where did you mount the rad top or front? if you have it in the front I would try the top and wise versa to find the best cooling portenial.


top exhaust and i have 2x 200mm fans in the front the problem is the air coming out of the radiator isn't that hot really which is strange you would expect hell of heat coming out what does that mean ?


----------



## QuietBob (Oct 16, 2022)

Please update HWinfo to the current version and do not run HWmonitor at the same time. What does it show for maximum CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) following a complete run of R23 MT?


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 16, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> i have no idea like maybe 28 or 29


Quite warm, that's one reason of it's high idle/load temps.....

Summer is gone where I live, I see ambient temps of around 20~22 degrees now.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 16, 2022)

@Jacks. this is why you use HWInfo, not HWMonitor. "Core clock" looks fine but note your effective clocks are only 4.3GHz, about right for low 14000s. Remember when using HWInfo to enavle Snapshot Polling in main settings (right click tray of icon), otherwise Core Clock is borderline useless.

I observed similar behaviour on 4201, I just attribute it to bad AGESA 1207 performance. But 4006 worked fine for me.

What BIOS settings have you changed? Try 4006 again, and clear CMOS to be sure (Asus does it auto after bios flash but clearly something else is going on here).

Your HWInfo is quite old, I was using 7.02 more than a year ago.

If it idles at 43C per core temps, thermals are still a problem. At around 25C ambient I still idle around 31-32C core temps.

Run R23 with only up to date HWInfo, and observe CPU Voltage SVI2 TFN value during test.


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Oct 16, 2022)

@Jacks. In the screenshot: cpu v-core almoats 1.3V, way to high for stock behaviour(~1.25V -/- 12.5mV)

Le: When I had set mine to or close to 1.3V , it was almoast instant at 90^C(1second).
After figuring some stuff, it boosts allcore to 4.6GHz or a bit more @ 1.28V(SMT off, if on >instant 90^C).


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 16, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> Please update HWinfo to the current version and do not run HWmonitor at the same time. What does it show for maximum CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) following a complete run of R23 MT?


here 





tabascosauz said:


> @Jacks. this is why you use HWInfo, not HWMonitor. "Core clock" looks fine but note your effective clocks are only 4.3GHz, about right for low 14000s. Remember when using HWInfo to enavle Snapshot Polling in main settings (right click tray of icon), otherwise Core Clock is borderline useless.
> 
> I observed similar behaviour on 4201, I just attribute it to bad AGESA 1207 performance. But 4006 worked fine for me.
> 
> ...


bios settings i have tried now is
AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Enabled
AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled
AMD CBS > CPU > Global C-State Control Enabled
got that from here https://www.overclock.net/threads/5800x3d-owners.1798046/
i did enable Snapshot Polling and updated HWInfo
i did flash back now to 4006 and bios is default didn't do anything even the ram are running 2666 and i got 87c with -30 pbo tuner and score of 14600 do you think it's the ram? that's the only thing that changed it's pulling 1.3v when docp is running i think i can make work at 1.27 or something but don't know if it will stable 
please keep in mind i'm not an overclocker this is my first time




dont whant to set it' said:


> @Jacks. In the screenshot: cpu v-core almoats 1.3V, way to high for stock behaviour(~1.25V -/- 12.5mV)
> 
> Le: When I had set mine to or close to 1.3V , it was almoast instant at 90^C(1second).
> After figuring some stuff, it boosts allcore to 4.6GHz or a bit more @ 1.28V(SMT off, if on >instant 90^C).


yeah i know and i have no idea how to bring it down and what stuff you figured out ? and yes smt is set to auto


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 16, 2022)

@Jacks. 1.1-1.15V is pretty normal for all core Vcore at -30. If curve wasn't applying and you were at 0, you'd be looking at 1.2V+ for sure. The 4.3xGHz clocks is probably a AGESA 1207 problem, but the fact you're pulling just 95W and hitting 90C is clearly a cooling problem. Everyone knows the 5800X3D is warm but this level of cooling is inexcusable even for an upper-midrange air cooler.

I'd expect you to land around 120W stock in R23, at this point I just don't know if the low power draw is due to AGESA, the fact you're hitting 90C (unlikely, mine still draws normal power at 90C), or something else.

First thing I'd do after going back to 4006 BIOS is to check with another cooler if you can. If you aren't able to test that, or find same results with a different cooler, I'd go exchange the 5800X3D for another one.

All your temps are high.
IOD hotspot should realistically never exceed 50C on any Zen 3 chiplet CPU.
Caches should be the same, hovering in the mid-40s max.
All symptoms point to a bad cooler, since you've already ruled out the mounting.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 16, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> First thing I'd do after going back to 4006 BIOS is to check with another cooler if you can. If you aren't able to test that, or find same results with a different cooler, I'd go exchange the 5800X3D for another one


exchange ? you mean rma ? oh god this gonna be hell don't wanna go near that they will not rma this is not the us mate i'm from africa-egypt here you bought it it's done unless it's not working at all
have you took a look to my post above ? i have edited it


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 16, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> All your temps are high.


Including his ambient temp if you missed that...


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 16, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Including his ambient temp if you missed that...



His ambient is 4 degrees warmer than mine and he idles 10-15c higher on core, IOD and cache

I know people like to parrot that the 5800X3D runs hot but this is not how it behaves


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 16, 2022)

@tabascosauz
take a look to my post above  i have edited it


----------



## QuietBob (Oct 16, 2022)

@Jacks. 
The -30 CO offset is getting applied properly, otherwise you'd be seeing 1.25-1.30V max CPU Core Voltage in R23. There seems to be a general problem with thermals in your system, though. This may be due to high room ambient. Could you verify your room temperature? It seems to me it may be well over 30C. 

This is what I got after 30 minutes of R23 in a 25C room, with -30 CO on all cores:


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 16, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> The -30 CO offset is getting applied properly, otherwise you'd be seeing 1.25-1.30V max CPU Core Voltage in R23. There seems to be a general problem with thermals in your system, though. This may be due to high room ambient. Could you verify your room temperature? It seems to me it may be well over 30C


i have no idea but it feels like 28 i got nothing to measure it with


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 16, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> exchange ? you mean rma ? oh god this gonna be hell don't wanna go near that they will not rma this is not the us mate i'm from africa-egypt here you bought it it's done unless it's not working at all
> have you took a look to my post above ? i have edited it



my condolences

I assumed that if it was a recent purchase, you could make use of return policy.

Your CPU isn't really behaving out of the ordinary so far which is good news, most of my suspicions still rest with your cooler. If ambient is to blame then your room would have to be like 35C......is it that hot?

Again, if you can get your hands on another decent cooler, it should help shed light on this problem.


----------



## 3x0 (Oct 16, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> This is what I got after 30 minutes of R23 in a 25C room, with -30 CO on all cores:


With which cooler?


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 16, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I assumed that if it was a recent purchase, you could make use of return policy.


it's a recent purchase only 4 days ago


tabascosauz said:


> If ambient is to blame then your room would have to be like 35C......is it that hot?


no it's not that hot feels like 28c really and have you seen the last post with the pic in it ? i did report on going back to 4006 and test also the ram i did run cyberpunk 2077 benchmark didn't exceed 75c no idea if this is helpful btw just to be sure what is your definition of a good cpu mount ? i'm sure mine is it's locked tight but just in case


----------



## freeagent (Oct 16, 2022)

I have to run it at 143w PPT for it to get up to 80, these things run pretty nice.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 16, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> it's a recent purchase only 4 days ago
> 
> no it's not that hot feels like 28c really and have you seen the last post with the pic in it ? i did report on going back to 4006 and test also the ram i did run cyberpunk 2077 benchmark didn't exceed 75c no idea if this is helpful btw just to be sure what is your definition of a good cpu mount ? i'm sure mine is it's locked tight but just in case



So...is ambient actually 28C or not? What it "feels" like doesn't make it any clearer.

Motherboard temp is not quite ambient but in relative terms, I'm at about 30C mobo in the morning with an ambient of about 22C ish. 

Yes, I did see your pic. No, Cyberpunk benchmark is not helpful, 5800X3D is usually at most in the 50-60s during gaming. 

Like I said, 90C running full stock, no curve, and pulling 110-130W is normal for any 5800X3D. You're hitting 90C at 95W, with what should be a top of the line cooler.

Is the Galahad new?


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 16, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> So...is ambient actually 28C or not? What it "feels" like doesn't make it any clearer.


i don't know honestly


tabascosauz said:


> Is the Galahad new?


yes bought it new a year ago
EDIT: 
ok let's talk about coolers what is the best of the best cooler for my cpu ?
keep in mind the hot zone i live in


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 17, 2022)

I would say PPT-limits, -30 CO and probably lowering SOC, IOD etc is mandatory on 5800X3D unless you have really good cooling.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> cooler contact is good i checked that twice ,i was able yesterday to get it under control with modifying the values in the limits tab didn't exceed 87c in cb r23 scoring 14200 no matter what values i enter in the curve tab it didn't do anything and yes it shows -30 when i open the program again , i will check the mount for the third time i just ordered Kryonaut Thermal Paste for absolutely no reason except being very sure of everything
> i'm still waiting for this guide
> 
> the Galahad is not good  you're kidding right ?!! it was doing a good job on 5600x and 5700x i can't afford to buy another cooler
> btw you have Dark Hero board i heard that curve optimizer is available in the bios on it is that true?


Dont forget that AIO's can just die - 2022 was the year of AIO failures.

New a year ago could mean its failed now, I'll see if Lian Li was specifcally hit with any of these issues


----------



## The King (Oct 17, 2022)

Have you guys with the 5800X3D played around with CPU LLC?

I can get up to +/-400 extra points in R23 using LLC 3 On my MSi mobo but this can vary from board to board and different brands.
You guys should go through a few settings and see if there is any improvement in R23 scores running different LLC levels.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 17, 2022)

Weird website name, but they've got some complaints about the galahad here

Lian Li Galahad AIO, Worse than you think. – NVIDIAS



The King said:


> Have you guys with the 5800X3D played around with CPU LLC?
> 
> I can get up to +/-400 extra points in R23 using LLC 3 On my MSi mobo but this can vary from board to board and different brands.
> You guys should go through a few settings and see if there is any improvement in R23 scores running different LLC levels.


It's like the voltage and clock speed are tied together, a positive offset on the voltage boosts too


----------



## The King (Oct 17, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Weird website name, but they've got some complaints about the galahad here
> 
> Lian Li Galahad AIO, Worse than you think. – NVIDIAS


Thanks for posting that I narrowed my AIO choice to the Artic freezer II 280 expensive (overpriced in local market) and the Lian Li galahad which is cheaper here.
Any other good AIO options for a 5800X ? Deepcool castle 280EX?


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Oct 17, 2022)

Positive offset also boosts temps like no tomorrow.
LLC helps.
1.2Vcore at all-core load is or should be more than sufficient for 4GHz to 4.45GHz all-core speed.

I cant set SMT to on at~4.6GHz all-core without it  reaching temps into high 80s-low 90s C within seconds. Gotta pursue a monoblock remount and add fans to radiator(one 120mm atm).


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 17, 2022)

Ok let's say that my cooler failed or it can't handel this much heat 
what are my options? Air and liquid?


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> Ok let's say that my cooler failed or it can't handel this much heat
> what are my options? Air and liquid?



There's no chance your 360mm AIO "can't handle" the heat if it was working properly. You really don't need anything fancy for 5800X3D, especially if you can use PBO2 Tuner. You're not making it past 4450MHz all-core anyway, without BCLK overclock. I'm using the equivalent of a NH-U14S, and with -30 and 90W limits I'm at 76C in R23.

Cinebench is a good reference for temps, but in games the 5800X3D should always run significantly cooler than Cinebench. And if you bought the 5800X3D to run Cinebench you've got your priorities seriously wrong lol.

Even assuming your place has a 35C ambient (I'm sorry for your loss), an air cooler will still be fine. This isn't like a 5950X where a crappy cooler will seriously hold your clocks or performance back. A lot of people will hit 90C at stock, but if you haven't noticed, pretty much everyone's scores in R23 fall between 14000-15000pts. 5800X3D is designed to deliver the gaming performance without high end cooling or expensive RAM.

Just get literally any cooler that is NH-U12S level performance or better that won't break the bank, and use it to verify if your Galahad is working properly. Then you'll have a cooler that can keep you going while you RMA the AIO, if it's indeed the problem.


----------



## Jun (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> Ok let's say that my cooler failed or it can't handel this much heat
> what are my options? Air and liquid?


I'm using Cooler Master's MA612 a single tower air cooler for my 5800x3d in a small SFF case. I live in a very hot place sometime reaching 40c feel, it was reaching 85c underload but putting CO to -30 all cores kept it under 80c. I can't imagine 360mm AIO reaching that high, so I think there's something wrong with the cooler.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 17, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Just get literally any cooler that is NH-U12S level performance or better that won't break the bank


i was thinking going to Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black it's too big and pricey it will fit with the rest of my hardware what do you think ?  
a friend mentioned Thermalright FC140 CPU Air Cooler but it's not being sold here it's 61 us dollars plus 95 dollars to ship to egypt which is ridiculous 
i really need suggestions 
and yes i bought it for gaming but right now i'm disappointed and frustrated


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 17, 2022)

Noctua NH U12A


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> i was thinking going to Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black it's too big and pricey it will fit with the rest of my hardware what do you think ?
> a friend mentioned Thermalright FC140 CPU Air Cooler but it's not being sold here it's 61 us dollars plus 95 dollars to ship to egypt which is ridiculous
> i really need suggestions
> and yes i bought it for gaming but right now i'm disappointed and frustrated



Not sure why a D15 wouldn't fit a normal Hero in a normal ATX case. FC140 is just as big as D15 if size is a concern for you.

You can get FC140 off Aliexpress, no?

There's a couple of cheap but good coolers, Vetroo V5 off the top of my head. NH-U12S redux is also fine if you can find one. I don't think you're reading what I said. I only suggested you get a cooler to troubleshoot what's wrong with your Galahad, and RMA it if necessary. I did not say that you need to break the bank for a 5800X3D.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 17, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Noctua NH U12A


i don't see the difference between it and NH-D15 chromax just fan size i guess right?


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> i don't see the difference between it and NH-D15 chromax just fan size i guess right?



The D15 is much larger...











						NH-D15
					

Built on the basis of the legendary NH-D14 and carrying on its quest for ultimate quiet cooling performance, Noctua’s flagship model NH-D15 is an elite-class dual tower cooler for the highest demands. Its expanded heatpipe layout and two premium grade NF-A15 140mm fans with PWM support for...




					noctua.at
				




U12A











						NH-U12A
					

The NH-U12A is the latest, 5th generation of Noctua’s award-winning NH-U12 series of 120mm size premium-quality quiet CPU coolers. Conceived to push the envelope of the 120mm form factor, it combines two of Noctua’s flagship model NF-A12x25 PWM 120mm fans with a completely redesigned heatsink...




					noctua.at
				




I'm running an i7 12700K with this U12A cooler.

The 7-heatpipe U12A has almost similar performance as it's 6-heapipe D15 larger brother.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 17, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> You can get FC140 off Aliexpress, no?
> 
> There's a couple of cheap but good coolers, Vetroo V5 off the top of my head. NH-U12S redux is also fine if you can find one. I don't think you're reading what I said. I only suggested you get a cooler to troubleshoot what's wrong with your Galahad, and RMA it if necessary. I did not say that you need to break the bank for a 5800X3D


Aliexpress is a no here, also NH-U12S redux it's here but they wouldn't sell it with out a complete build it's a common practice here bad thing i know most of the hardware here you can't but separately you have to buy a full pc to get it you have no idea what i did to get my build done anyway ,troubleshoot and RMA the Galahad i don't think they will honor the RMA policy or whatever they call it that's why i skipped the troubleshooting part it's a great loss for me i just hope to find a way to buy u12a or d15


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> u12a or d15



Whatever cooler you buy, be sure they fit your motherboard(vrm heatsinks) , memory height and case...


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> Aliexpress is a no here, also NH-U12S redux it's here but they wouldn't sell it with out a complete build it's a common practice here bad thing i know most of the hardware here you can't but separately you have to buy a full pc to get it you have no idea what i did to get my build done anyway ,troubleshoot and RMA the Galahad i don't think they will honor the RMA policy or whatever they call it that's why i skipped the troubleshooting part it's a great loss for me i just hope to find a way to buy u12a or d15



Fair enough. D15 should be fine with Ballistix height, your case has plenty of clearance, your x16 slot is moved down a slot so it shouldn't interfere with GPU

If you're going for an all black aesthetic, the U12A Chromax is usually obscenely overpriced for what it is. But it's similar to a D15 in a smaller package size. 

You can also look for Scythe Fuma 2, Deepcool AK620, etc.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 17, 2022)

ok this is the last attempt at it take a look new paste remount close all asus programs fingers crossed


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 17, 2022)

Looking better now, 82 degrees.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 17, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> Looking better now, 82 degrees.


so am i clear ? please tell i don't need a new cooler or that i have a bad cpu i had to really tighten the screws down not much though there is still maybe a round or two left should i tighten it more ? i don't remember doing that for the last 2 cpus i had this is not my first time building i'm a 42 this January i have more than 20 years of experience in building computers maybe i'm getting old but this is the first time i had to tighten the screws hard like this
btw this is the only cooler i found Noctua NH-D15S


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 17, 2022)

According to AMD:

_It is best to keep temperature at least in the low 80c at maximum loads if possible._






						5800X3D and 6900XT Safe Operating Temps?
					

I recently purchased the above products and even with 11 fans in my Lian case, I can't stop the GPU (GPU hotspot) from hitting temps in the 90s (and very rarely, 100C) and my CPU (Tctl/Tdie) gets into the lower 70s at times.   The CPU is being water cooled by Corsair H115, but the GPU is air...




					community.amd.com


----------



## Colddecked (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> so am i clear ? please tell i don't need a new cooler or that i have a bad cpu i had to really tighten the screws down not much though there is still maybe a round or two left should i tighten it more ? i don't remember doing that for the last 2 cpus i had this is not my first time building i'm a 42 this January i have more than 20 years of experience in building computers maybe i'm getting old but this is the first time i had to tighten the screws hard like this
> btw this is the only cooler i found Noctua NH-D15S


Yes that is a normal temp for a large air cooler like the d15.  Did you end up uninstalling armory crate?  Does pbo2 tuner load automatically now?


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 17, 2022)

Colddecked said:


> Yes that is a normal temp for a large air cooler like the d15. Did you end up uninstalling armory crate? Does pbo2 tuner load automatically now?


this is not the d15 it's still my 360 aio and i just for now exited all asus stuff from task manager and no i didn't add pbo2 to task scheduler


----------



## freeagent (Oct 17, 2022)

If it helps I get like 73c in R23.









						Post your Cinebench R23 Score
					






					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 17, 2022)

freeagent said:


> If it helps I get like 73c in R23.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



His ambient temp is around 29 degrees C.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 17, 2022)

P4-630 said:


> His ambient temp is around 29 degrees C.


Mine was not


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 17, 2022)

new windows installation nothing but drivers no asus soft at all and i can't say weather it's the same or worse after like 5 or 6 attempts iod reached 57 to 58 but the good news -if there is any- is that the cores never pushed passed 87 in any time i guess asus soft didn't have any effect at all btw no one told me if nh-d15s is a good cooler or not should i buy it or what?
any other test before connecting back my m.2 that has my games and my old os? i have to take out my gpu to that

ok last one no more i just don't care anymore


----------



## Colddecked (Oct 17, 2022)

Other than your cores not reaching 4550, it looks fine.  Do you have voltage regulation settings like load line calibration on?

d15 is a great air cooler but you already have a 360 aio, cooling isn't the issue.


----------



## QuietBob (Oct 17, 2022)

3x0 said:


> With which cooler?


Deepcool Assassin III



Jacks. said:


> ok last one no more i just don't care anymore


It looks like your CPU isn't running full speed. You may have lowered the default PPT/TDC/EDC limits, which are 142/95/142 for the 5800X3D:





Also, your case or radiator fans do not spin up under load. What did you plug into Chassis 1/2/3 connectors?


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 17, 2022)

Colddecked said:


> d15 is a great air cooler but you already have a 360 aio, cooling isn't the issue


will everyone suspects it's faulty since it doesn't do the job and I think I'm not reaching 4550 cause of bios i flashed back to 4006 don't know if i should flash 4201 
btw no don't let that last pic fool you that test happened  like 40 minutes after the one before it and the pc was off so i think it didn't reach equilibrium 


QuietBob said:


> What did you plug into Chassis 1/2/3 connectors?


it's case fans i lowered the speeds to test only the cpu coolers just to see how much air it will push didn't want to unplug them since it's a hassle but everything is connected really right as for the limits i may have lowered it i know i did to test more i did a ton of testing in the last 4 hours


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> will everyone suspects it's faulty since it doesn't do the job and I think I'm not reaching 4550 cause of bios i flashed back to 4006 don't know if i should flash 4201
> btw no don't let that last pic fool you that test happened  like 40 minutes after the one before it and the pc was off so i think it didn't reach equilibrium
> 
> it's case fans i lowered the speeds to test only the cpu coolers just to see how much air it will push didn't want to unplug them since it's a hassle but everything is connected really right as for the limits i may have lowered it i know i did to test more i did a ton of testing in the last 4 hours


Your last screen shot shows 4450mhz.. we'll a little bit under because of spread spectrum. So never ever a steady 100.00mhz bus frequency. 

So maximum looks to be reached. 

14k+ CB R23, looks good to me?

Is there a specific conundrum? Should this score be higher than average? Goal?


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> will everyone suspects it's faulty since it doesn't do the job and I think I'm not reaching 4550 cause of bios i flashed back to 4006 don't know if i should flash 4201
> btw no don't let that last pic fool you that test happened  like 40 minutes after the one before it and the pc was off so i think it didn't reach equilibrium
> 
> it's case fans i lowered the speeds to test only the cpu coolers just to see how much air it will push didn't want to unplug them since it's a hassle but everything is connected really right as for the limits i may have lowered it i know i did to test more i did a ton of testing in the last 4 hours



I don't know anyone running 4550MHz all-core on it with an unmodded BIOS or without BCLK. Single core occasionally, in benchmarks.

I'm not sure what you're after anymore. You said you didn't care about performance. The performance looks fine for 90W, it's the temps that don't really add up. They're looking a bit better now.

Reset your limits in PBO2 Tuner (leave CO alone) and see if you draw more power. If at 142/95/140 you land between 100-120W then it's pretty normal, and then you can stop trying to worry about 3 different things at the same time.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 17, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> I don't know anyone running 4550MHz all-core on it with an unmodded BIOS. Single core occasionally, in benchmarks.
> 
> I'm not sure what you're after anymore. You said you didn't care about performance. The performance looks fine for 90W, it's the temps that don't really add up. They're looking a bit better now.
> 
> Reset your limits in PBO2 Tuner (leave CO alone) and see if you draw more power. If at 142/95/140 you land between 100-120W then it's pretty normal, and then you can stop trying to worry about 3 different things at the same time.


no I'm not after performance at all just reasonable one with good temps whatever it is and survive next summer without needing to pay anymore that build cost me a lot any way i did what you said here are the result no limits were applied and co is 0 i still think it's bad temp but you know more than me about that cpu so tell me btw should i stay on 4006 or 4201?


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> no I'm not after performance at all just reasonable one with good temps whatever it is and survive next summer without needing to pay anymore that build cost me a lot any way i did what you said here are the result no limits were applied and co is 0 i still think it's bad temp but you know more than me about that cpu so tell me btw should i stay on 4006 or 4201?



Weren't you already on 4201 and it didn't make a difference? 

106W stock looks pretty normal, all things considered. 

We already established like a page ago that probably the easiest way to figure this out is to use a different cooler and see. Not sure where all the indecision is coming from. Is it not possible to return purchases or something?

Either:

Your place is a lot hotter than you think it is
Something's up with the AIO


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 17, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Weren't you already on 4201 and it didn't make a difference?


that's right i was just asking 


tabascosauz said:


> We already established like a page ago that probably the easiest way to figure this out is to use a different cooler and see. Not sure where all the indecision is coming from. Is it not possible to return purchases or something?
> 
> Either:
> 
> ...


yeah i'm still trying to find something good or fix the one i have how talked about returns anyway there is no such thing here unless it's completely dead in a day or two of you purchasing it not after a year and even then it will be a hassle the good news is it's not the cpu it's just that damn cooler i'm still trying to decide between these two
Noctua NH-D15S 
thermalright fc140
both i will buy from us amazon cause they wouldn't sell it here unless i buy a full pc with it


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> i'm still trying to decide between these two
> Noctua NH-D15S
> thermalright fc140
> both i will buy from us amazon cause they wouldn't sell it here unless i buy a full pc with it



I have both of those coolers.  To me, with a CPU that's under 150w I see no practical difference.  I'd choose whichever is less expensive, with maybe a slight advantage to the Thermalright because it includes a second fan over the single fan D15S.


----------



## QuietBob (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> it's case fans i lowered the speeds to test only the cpu cooler


Why on earth would you set all case fans to minimum? There's no point in testing CPU temperature when you've eliminated practically all air flow like that. Re-set your case fans so that they max out when the CPU reaches 70C. Zen 3 retains its maximum boost clock under 75C. Increase fan spin-up delay so they don't ramp up on momentary loads.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 17, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> Why on earth would you set all case fans to minimum? There's no point in testing CPU temperature when you've eliminated practically all air flow like that. Re-set your case fans so that they max out when the CPU reaches 70C. Zen 3 retains its maximum boost clock under 75C. Increase fan spin-up delay so they don't ramp up on momentary loads.




the front fans are just stock cooler master 200mm fans and the back one is stock also 140mm it doesn't make a difference take a look


----------



## freeagent (Oct 17, 2022)

That... is one hot CPU. 30c ambient shouldn't drive it into the 90s like that, my vote is something else is up, possibly with your AIO.


----------



## QuietBob (Oct 17, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> the front fans are just stock cooler master 200mm fans and the back one is stock also 140mm it doesn't make a difference take a look


Then it's either high room temperature (please verify with a cheap thermometer) or indeed the AIO has gone kaput. Or both. In any case you can lower your CPU idle temps by setting the power plan to balanced and the power slider to best energy savings:


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 17, 2022)

@Jacks.

if that's how it is, then if you can't find a Fuma 2 for a good price, I'd just get the D15. I don't know about Scythe, but Noctua has good warranty support wherever you are. Last year I got 3 defective L12 coolers off Amazon and sent an email to Noctua about it - they sent me a return label so they could take a look at the coolers, and sent me a replacement L12 straight from Austria via UPS Saver.

Even if you still end up using the AIO in the end, the D15'll be a stout cooler that you'll want to keep around. If a new socket comes out just ask them for an upgrade kit.

D15S performs a bit worse, but is still way more than enough for a 5800X3D, and less worries about RAM height.


----------



## kapone32 (Oct 17, 2022)

The King said:


> Thanks for posting that I narrowed my AIO choice to the Artic freezer II 280 expensive (overpriced in local market) and the Lian Li galahad which is cheaper here.
> Any other good AIO options for a 5800X ? Deepcool castle 280EX?


InWin SR36


----------



## The King (Oct 18, 2022)

kapone32 said:


> InWin SR36


Looks great but not available in local market. 

Actually having a hard time finding a good AIO that outperforms my Phanteks PH-TC14PE by a significant amount to justify the high prices of these things.

I may just look at using another thermal paste from the current MX4 and try some Thermal Grizzly to bring temps down by a few degrees under OC and full load.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 18, 2022)

The King said:


> Thanks for posting that I narrowed my AIO choice to the Artic freezer II 280 expensive (overpriced in local market) and the Lian Li galahad which is cheaper here.
> Any other good AIO options for a 5800X ? Deepcool castle 280EX?


Personally i'll only vouch for the Arctic freezer II since they've done their warranty stuff so well, and Be quiet since they've got fill ports AND an in-hose pump preventing so many issues experienced by the pump being in the heatsink/block that other designs have.

be quiet! Pure Loop 2 FX 280 AIO Review - A Closer Look | TechPowerUp

1. No more rattles and risks of air bubbles




2. And a simple stealthed fill port at the opposite end of the rad to the pump - where it's actually practical to fill with the pump running to bleed air out.






And the freezer:
Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 A-RGB Review | TechPowerUp

1. Great AM4 mounting kit helps with temps
2. Great warranty support if things go bad with those replacement kits
3.VRM fan is genuinely helpful for most users


I would almost recommend users go air or entry level custom water loops these days - Alphacool have expandable AIO kits for example - I cant vouch for performance, but the concept of an AIO designed to be refilled that you can add your GPU into, is fantastic.


----------



## The King (Oct 18, 2022)

dont whant to set it' said:


> Positive offset also boosts temps like no tomorrow.
> LLC helps.
> 1.2Vcore at all-core load is or should be more than sufficient for 4GHz to 4.45GHz all-core speed.
> 
> I cant set SMT to on at~4.6GHz all-core without it  reaching temps into high 80s-low 90s C within seconds. Gotta pursue a monoblock remount and add fans to radiator(one 120mm atm).


What LLC are you using on your ASUS board Mode 3?

Still think the OP performance issues in R23 has to do with LLC settings on his mobo.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 18, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> so am i clear ? please tell i don't need a new cooler or that i have a bad cpu i had to really tighten the screws down not much though there is still maybe a round or two left should i tighten it more ? i don't remember doing that for the last 2 cpus i had this is not my first time building i'm a 42 this January i have more than 20 years of experience in building computers maybe i'm getting old but this is the first time i had to tighten the screws hard like this
> btw this is the only cooler i found Noctua NH-D15S


Fire up HWinfo while you have R23 running, and check the stats for clock speed and efffective clock speed while it's at full load.




If they're at 4.45GHz you're at the best the chip can do, and better cooling won't change a thing.
And seriously, these chips run hot in synthetic AVX loads like this - but they're insanely efficient and cold in gaming

90W with something like R23 vs 40-60 in regular apps and gaming is very, very different for temps










The King said:


> What LLC are you using on your ASUS board Mode 4?
> 
> Still think the OP performance issues in R23 has to do with LLC settings on his mobo.


Any undervolting on the x3D can result in clock stretching where you'll see 4.45GHz real clock but say 4.0GHz effective as the cores sleep - it's more like PWM voltage control vs DC voltage on fans.

Hwinfo *while r23 is running* can show us this


----------



## dont whant to set it"' (Oct 18, 2022)

@The King , auto yelds clock streching as @Mussels
put it, but only when fiddling cpu core freq multi.
AMD really did quite a number to lock it in.

Better results from auto , trough all 5 settings , 3 ,4 5 are top, 4,5 , very close results . Went as high with 120% current capability on l3 and l4, now 110% l5
Bare in mind that with this x3d chip installed some settings are missing entirely from the bios, no EDC,TDC,PPT, donwcore, possibly CO . Tried on two motherboards, some settings are not availabe when compared to vanilla Zen3.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Oct 18, 2022)

The King said:


> What LLC are you using on your ASUS board Mode 3?
> 
> Still think the OP performance issues in R23 has to do with LLC settings on his mobo.


Now I'm using a different platform, but with an Asus board.

LLC
It appears that XMP enabled, enables to lvl 3.
Lvl 1 system clear cmos at defaults.
Lvl 4 for manual OC on ambient "suggested"
Lvl 5 and higher for liquid cooling or better.

Lvl 1-3 typically has full load v-droop.
Lvl 4 and up, hold steady or over user input v-core at all core load.

Inexperienced user with one of the hottest chips on the market would concentrate on cooling.

Ambient temp, did I read?? 29c?? 85F??
^^
This is primary issue. Not default or user defined settings....


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 18, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Fire up HWinfo while you have R23 running, and check the stats for clock speed and efffective clock speed while it's at full load.
> If they're at 4.45GHz you're at the best the chip can do, and better cooling won't change a thing.
> And seriously, these chips run hot in synthetic AVX loads like this - but they're insanely efficient and cold in gaming
> 
> 90W with something like R23 vs 40-60 in regular apps and gaming is very, very different for temps


the best i saw was 4.3ghz cause of cooling -btw i ordered a new cooler today gonna take several weeks before it arrives- but i still think that the chip i got has lost the silicon lottery


The King said:


> Still think the OP performance issues in R23 has to do with LLC settings on his mobo.


the galahad got no software to handle it you can only change fans profile in bios if that what you mean as for installation it's top exhaust


----------



## freeagent (Oct 18, 2022)

These chips are not for overclocking, for the most part AMD made sure of that. Big deal some guy got it to 4700.. its not going to be stable for all core loads, and its stil a lot slower that its older brothers when it comes to peak MHz. A regular 5800X can do 5050MHz. 

I would just oc the fclk to get your mems up to speed and enjoy the rest of your day 

I say that about overclocking because at 143PPT this chip wants to start melting, and its only doing 4250 with Linpack.

No point.


----------



## Calenhad (Oct 18, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> so am i clear ? please tell i don't need a new cooler or that i have a bad cpu i had to really tighten the screws down not much though there is still maybe a round or two left should i tighten it more ?


Yes. This is a no-thinking mounting system, tighten the spring-loaded nuts until they can't be turned any further. If you stop prior to this, you will have to low mounting pressure resulting in poor cooling performance.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 18, 2022)

Calenhad said:


> Yes. This is a no-thinking mounting system, tighten the spring-loaded nuts until they can't be turned any further. If you stop prior to this, you will have to low mounting pressure resulting in poor cooling performance.


i know that what i was saying is the pressure is too much i heard the bracket cracking that's why i stopped not because the nuts can't be turned any further the bracket is fine -for now at least- i have used this cooler before and it didn't take that much pressure to have a good contact with the cpu and in the past i have broke amd mounting bracket cause of with the same amount of pressure, intel or any mount that take 4 screws is better than that stupid hook that amd use


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Oct 18, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> i have no idea but it feels like 28 i got nothing to measure it with


Ah yeah, there it is.
Circles and circles because high ambient temps.

No new accomplishments today. All suggestions null.
Un-watch thread. Good luck!


----------



## The King (Oct 18, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> the galahad got no software to handle it you can only change fans profile in bios if that what you mean as for installation it's top exhaust


I was refering to CPU LLC (Load-Line Calibration) its a setting in the motherboards BIOS.
On my board I had low R23 number when it was set to AUTO. Setting LLC to 3 Increased my R23 score around 400 points.

Not sure if it help you or get your clocks to that 4450 max clocks speed.
Still worth looking at has I see other in this thread hitting that 4450 with their 5800X3D.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 18, 2022)

The King said:


> I was refering to CPU LLC (Load-Line Calibration) its a setting in the motherboards BIOS.
> On my board I had low R23 number when it was set to AUTO. Setting LLC to 3 Increased my R23 score around 400 points.


yeah i did realize that after my replay still i don't care much about r23 score now i'm just focused on temps bring them down then we can talk about score


----------



## InVasMani (Oct 18, 2022)

I'd recommend drop the LLC lower and bump the offset within safe voltage constraints til you get stability at load without crashing. You're VRM temps will thank. Slightly lower temps could certainly help in your situation. If you aren't already you might consider push pull on the AIO though it's hard to believe a 360 would struggle to cool a 5800X3D that shouldn't really be the case I could see a 240 AIO having harder time with it, but 360 does not seem like it should be so that's peculiar.


----------



## freeagent (Oct 18, 2022)

InVasMani said:


> it's hard to believe a 360 would struggle to cool a 5800X3D that shouldn't really be the case I could see a 240 AIO having harder time with it,


It shouldn't struggle to cool X3D, not at all. I am doing it with a heatsink and the whole time it is super easy to cool.

It is only when you reach the limit of the chip does it get warm. Something is up with his cooling, because I ran my 5900X at 28c ambient and I did not dial back my OC at all. Kept all 235w worth cooled by my air cooler.


----------



## Zach_01 (Oct 18, 2022)

Don’t know if already someone said it but applying negative CO all it does is making the CPU to clock higher on the same voltage eventually. If max clock is already reached without CO then this affects clock sustainability. You can see this on avg discrete clock under any load (and better effectives on all core load).

Controlling temp on the 5800X3D without boost override available leaves you with the only one left. Setting a temp limit. Set it to 75~80C and then apply the negative CO that the CPU can withstand without instability and that’s it.
It will do its best within all limits.
Lowering PPT will not affect much max temp under low-middle threaded loads, like gaming.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 18, 2022)

InVasMani said:


> I'd recommend drop the LLC lower and bump the offset within safe voltage constraints til you get stability at load without crashing


sorry but what offset should i bump?


----------



## freeagent (Oct 18, 2022)

I have not used a cpu offset or LLC on the CPU when it is controlling itself. Does it do anything? I’ve used it a couple of times for static clocks, but that’s it.. because it seems counter productive to me to use LLC on a stock running cpu.


----------



## InVasMani (Oct 19, 2022)

Lower LLC reduces VRM temps, but can hinder stability if voltage is too low under load due to higher vdroop. It's good provided you aren't undercutting expected power delivery. I think it even improves transients. Offset seems to be preferred often over fixed, but there are case arguments I suppose in favor of each. I'm not 100% certain how it works with AMD and Ryzen in terms of offset and fixed voltages because it's rather clever with it's auto handling of things with PBO, but it still leaves room for manual overrides.

It's probably best to leave the voltage control to auto and simply reduce the LLC values downward to lower values and test out stability is under load and check performance temps to gauge the impact. You can experiment with the amount of LLC vdroop to find a balance sweet spot. Buildzoid even recommends lower LLC for z670 with Intel in his Aero D vs Aorus Master comparison video and what he mentioned fell in line with my personal experiences with LLC for Intel. I found the same situation LLC can in fact work better in practice. Something he mentioned about it was overshoot voltage and how lower LLC helps.

The LLC issue should really apply pretty equally in general to both Intel and AMD. A lower LLC will always be easier on the VRM design of the board though as a rule of thumb. The key is not dropping expected voltage so low that under load it causes a system crash.

I think vdroop use to be a worse issue on older higher node chips, but today lower node higher heat density chips the vdroop actually helps especially with chips scaling higher at lower voltages and heat density being higher thus thermals being a bigger concern while quick more dynamic scaling is easier and makes vdroop less concerning on stability sort of if it's still high enough for supplied voltage at load.

It's not going to hurt to reduce the LLC And see how it impacts temps and stability and is perfectly safe at the same time. It's worth trying when temps are already a problem.

Here's the Buildzoid video if interested. 
Gigabyte z670 aorus master vs aero D comparison.

A lot of keen insight in his video analysis. What he alludes to is the same experience I shared for my earlier z170 board with LLC as well. The parts on the transients and oversight voltage are neat as well to the curious mind. It's funny where he mentions programs crashing too to voltages because there is a sweet spot on voltage being too low and causing a program crash yet not a outright system crash in certain cases. 

I've so had that same experience countless times with overclocking. I'm sure most overclocking people remember encountering those in between sweet spots where a programs stable or up to a point and another isn't. That's essentially the struggle with LLC and voltage in general being lower than expected you can encounter a delicate balance of stability and instability when voltage is too far below expectations. You could have hard full system crash or just program crash. A full system crash usually means voltage is too low or temps too high which could be CPU, GPU, system memory, or board VRM's. A soft crash means it's not entirely unstable outright, but voltage are still too low or temps too high relative to what's required and/or expected for how far you're trying to push the hardware itself.


----------



## Zach_01 (Oct 19, 2022)

Sure its not going to harm/damage anything but stability if LLC is introduced and it is a general rule for all CPUs but on Ryzens (Zen2/3) specifically there is some history info of impacting boost performance substantially under high loads if its implemented to the degree that really makes a difference.
So learning and doing/trying what affects Intel CPU could be potentially irrelevant to a Ryzen CPU.

Though as I said wont hurt to try.

We have to comprehend that most Zen3 CPU have higher (max) temps under low-middle loads and not on high-all core ones (the ones LLC is affecting more). Due to the aggressive boosting under simple tasks or gaming and also to the number of (dozens) temp sensors scattered throughout the die(s). Always one of them is near a potential hotspot.

I've tried a number of things on my 5900X to make it not hit 80~82C, even though it was only very briefly under low/simple tasks. Using boost override (-50MHz) can help a little but this is not available on 5800X3D.
Reducing PPT/EDC limit does not affect (on max temp) any Zen3 (142W) unless you set it to low (like 80W) but you may be crippling a lot of performance, especially on SMT.

What did the job eventually was setting a temp limit to 75C. So after this I never saw temp above 76~77C on HWiNFO64 and without loosing any of the stock boost/performance. What this does (eventually) is to shave off any voltage/boost overshoot and maybe high aggressiveness. The CPU still is hitting the upper boost limit even if I set it to 5.05GHz (boost override to +100MHz).
You can use it with negative CO to help sustainability of boost (effective clock) and maybe hitting max boost with lower voltage. CO alone cant tame max temp under low-middle load.

I do not see any other way to have the desired max temp and to keep boost as close to as intended or even improve it.
Better and more expensive cooler will not affect much the max temp value (especially for Zen3) as this is happening as I said very rapidly and briefly under low-middle loads. Those very very brief high temp values are happening too fast on die and should not affect Tcase or IHS temp much if any amount.

If any Zen3 CPU under all core load is having same max temp, or higher, with low-middle loads it may mean that PPT/EDC is set to high or they're completely unconstrained, like the stupid-high values the boards are setting under Auto PBO (mainboard limits).


----------



## Mussels (Oct 19, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> yeah i did realize that after my replay still i don't care much about r23 score now i'm just focused on temps bring them down then we can talk about score


Score matters.

You need to know if you've crippled performance or not, as lowering the temps the right amount keeps performance or increases it.
You need to use the PBO2 tuner tool and the -30 offset, or if your board has unlocked settings, you can undervolt

Theres nothing else other than making sure your cooler is working correctly.


----------



## Calenhad (Oct 19, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> i know that what i was saying is the pressure is too much i heard the bracket cracking that's why i stopped not because the nuts can't be turned any further the bracket is fine -for now at least- i have used this cooler before and it didn't take that much pressure to have a good contact with the cpu and in the past i have broke amd mounting bracket cause of with the same amount of pressure, intel or any mount that take 4 screws is better than that stupid hook that amd use


So, are you saying you have not tightened the nuts to the manufacturers specifications then? Creaking is the springs settling, this is normal. Tighten the nuts properly before looking for other causes.

You are complaining about high temps. Improperly mounted cooler is a pretty significant cause for higher temps than expected...


----------



## freeagent (Oct 19, 2022)

Turn the screws until they stop


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 19, 2022)

Calenhad said:


> So, are you saying you have not tightened the nuts to the manufacturers specifications then?


the nuts are tightened first by hand and then used a screw driver and what made me stop was hearing the bracket cracking that sound wasn't springs settling no and even tighten it more didn't change anything same degrees and same clocks


----------



## freeagent (Oct 19, 2022)

If you heard cracking then something isn’t right, take it apart and start over.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 19, 2022)

freeagent said:


> If you heard cracking then something isn’t right, take it apart and start over.


i got my hands on a d15 chromax today rented it from a shop to test with it and see in a few hours after work i will try again

ok got the cooler and here is the test result please tell me it's good


----------



## Colddecked (Oct 20, 2022)

You can tell its working alot better.  Score went up, max boost went up, temps went down.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 20, 2022)

this is with -30 pbo tuner do i need to do anything else ? stress test it with other programs ? or this is just enough


----------



## freeagent (Oct 20, 2022)

Much better.


----------



## Colddecked (Oct 20, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> this is with -30 pbo tuner do i need to do anything else ? stress test it with other programs ? or this is just enough


Core cycler.  Leave it on over night for a few nights.  Mine has gone over 24hrs total on it so far.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 20, 2022)

Colddecked said:


> Core cycler.  Leave it on over night for a few nights.  Mine has gone over 24hrs total on it so far.


you mean leaving cb r23 on for few nights ? or just the pc on ?
anyway here is how it ended -for now- i did get to the 15000 score in a test and then stressed it for 30 minutes with the room shut and window closed no ac working or ceiling fan the two test result are here







and this was my setting in bios 4006 then updated to 4201 to see if there is any difference 
AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Enabled
AMD CBS > NBIO > SMU > CPPC Preferred Cores Disabled
AMD CBS > CPU > Global C-State Control Enabled
and i have a ram voltage down to 1.2v 
now hardware wise i was right about lian li cooler screws there is something wrong with that after installing d15 and tightened the screws down it did stop and didn't want to move again as for the galahad that didn't happen at all it just kept going which is very odd as i said maybe i don't have an experience in overclocking or undervolting at all but i have built computers more that i can remember and don't think i saw that at all i literally heard the plastic bracket cracking and when i took it out i saw a little crack there maybe there is something faulty with the springs i don't know ,right now i stopped testing cause it's 4 in the morning and cause d15 isn't mine i have to return it tomorrow but now i know that the cpu is fine and the problem is the cooler i will be getting d15 in the next few weeks so if you see this thank you very much for helping me though this great community really glad to be a part of it and if you have more advises please tell me


----------



## Zach_01 (Oct 20, 2022)

I see PPT only goes as far as ~95W. Did you change PPT limit from stock? Isn’t it 142W stock like the other 105W TDP CPUs?

I should better ask what is the Power Reporting Daviation and PPT *during* the CB R23 multi run, because PPT alone doesn’t mean much.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 20, 2022)

Zach_01 said:


> I see PPT only goes as far as ~95W. Did you change PPT limit from stock? Isn’t it 142W stock like the other 105W TDP CPUs?
> 
> I should better ask what is the Power Reporting Daviation and PPT *during* the CB R23 multi run, because PPT alone doesn’t mean much.


no i didn't change ppt limits at all and what does this mean ? i know what ppt is but if it didn't change is this good or bad


----------



## Zach_01 (Oct 20, 2022)

I just wanted to know what is the total power consumption of the CPU.

If you’re having a Power Reporting Deviation value below or above 100% then what you see at PPT sensor is not true.

It’s an easy calculation to find the true value for total power.

For example if PRD is 80% and PPT is 90W *during* CB R23 MT then the power of the CPU package is:

90 / 0.8 = 112.5W

Note that PRD value has meaning only under full CPU load. In any other situation you just ignore it. Doesn’t mean anything and the value can be anything from 0% to several hundreds.


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 20, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> i got my hands on a d15 chromax today rented it from a shop to test with it and see in a few hours after work i will try again
> 
> ok got the cooler and here is the test result please tell me it's good



That's pretty damn good and spot on. I guess it was the AIO, whatever the reason. Maybe the mounting just wasn't that great on your kit. When mounting waterblocks it can take a lot of work to tighten it down enough, unlike air coolers, and hard to tell if it's "good enough".

For comparison I'm also basically at the 15000 mark, about 76C at -30, about 100W for that score. Considering your ambient is so much higher (I think you said 29? Mine is usually 21-22 in the mornings), your D15 is really doing good work.

Case closed, I guess? Enjoy your setup, you've got a good thing going. If you really really want to take a screenshot for posterity, you can close some background stuff, disable Search service and internet, or run in Safe Mode - should easily get you past 15000, you're already maxed out at 4450.

With Noctua and most good air coolers, if the screws stop, they stop. No need to try and give it more force to see if it goes further, it gives you very clear feedback when it reaches the end.

I applaud your perseverance. It's very frustrating when trying to hunt down a cooling problem and mounting/remounting all day.



Zach_01 said:


> I see PPT only goes as far as ~95W. Did you change PPT limit from stock? Isn’t it 142W stock like the other 105W TDP CPUs?
> 
> I should better ask what is the Power Reporting Daviation and PPT *during* the CB R23 multi run, because PPT alone doesn’t mean much.



The X3D is a bit strange, it's rare (if even possible at stock) to see it max out 142W even if that's what you allow it to draw. Most people fall around 100-120W area stock in Cinebench, CO may or may not affect that. Personally I haven't found that much difference between about 100W and 120W, what matters is getting to 4450MHz all core effective (since 4450 is Fmax for all-core load). There are a lot of things about this CPU that go against conventional Zen 3 wisdom.

Beyond 120W temps really start to climb, and due to Fmax and basically score cap at 15k, no point going further. AMD set way too ambitious a PPT out of the box for these. For scores I'd let it go up to 100/65/90, but honestly the usual Eco limits work just as well if not chasing that last 1% of benchmark scores (88/60/90).

With a good cooler, if you can hit that clock target, 100W should be all you really need for 15k (after 15k the only real improvements in score will come from BCLK).


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 20, 2022)

Zach_01 said:


> 90 / 0.8 = 112.5W
> 
> Note that PRD value has meaning only under full CPU load. In any other situation you just ignore it. Doesn’t mean anything and the value can be anything from 0% to several hundreds


ok here you go first pic is with co applied 



and this without co 



these were during the test not after


tabascosauz said:


> That's pretty damn good and spot on. I guess it was the AIO, whatever the reason. Maybe the mounting just wasn't that great on your kit. When mounting waterblocks it can take a lot of work to tighten it down enough, unlike air coolers, and hard to tell if it's "good enough".
> 
> For comparison I'm also basically at the 15000 mark, about 76C at -30, about 100W for that score. Considering your ambient is so much higher (I think you said 29? Mine is usually 21-22 in the mornings), your D15 is really doing good work.
> 
> ...


most of the thanks goes to you my friend you have been very very helpful and yeah the d15 is a very good cooler the only down side is it's size it will block the gpu latch and the first m.2 slot but if you want cooling then noctua got my back  i will do further testing with the galahad on another system to make sure it's working or it's just one of those which got there fins clogged


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 20, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> ok here you go first pic is with co applied
> 
> and this without co
> 
> ...



Glad you were able to sort it all out   

Very interesting how the CO is working on your board. On both my boards it reduces temps and increases clocks, but has no effect on wattage by itself. Didn't reduce wattage for my 5900X, 5600G or 5700G either. But that's just the thing with Ryzen I guess, everyone's setup can work slightly differently out of the box.

I know the struggle very well over cooler size......the Impact's SO-DIMM.2 also makes it hard to reach GPU release latch, and no way to get SO-DIMM.2 out without removing either the C14S or GPU. But Noctua has good quality especially on the mounting hardware - the C14S alone I've mounted/remounted maybe 100 times, if not more. It feels every so slightly looser now in some aspects, but it still gets 100% of the performance. 

I would be interested to see how the AIO turns out, now that there's no urgency to testing it.


----------



## Mussels (Oct 20, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> i got my hands on a d15 chromax today rented it from a shop to test with it and see in a few hours after work i will try again
> 
> ok got the cooler and here is the test result please tell me it's good View attachment 266228


We need to see that while the test is running, so we can see the clock speeds

Averages dont tell us the full story if you've had it idling - With it being open for an entire 1 minute and 41 seconds we cant really get much useful info from that


set it to a 10 minute + run and take the screenshot while it's still rendering, near the end


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 20, 2022)

Mussels said:


> set it to a 10 minute + run and take the screenshot while it's still rendering, near the end


there is a pic while it's running just up there


----------



## Mussels (Oct 20, 2022)

those results are running for 1 minute and 2 minutes

They're useless for anything other than 'current' values


----------



## Zach_01 (Oct 20, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> The X3D is a bit strange, it's rare (if even possible at stock) to see it max out 142W even if that's what you allow it to draw. Most people fall around 100-120W area stock in Cinebench, CO may or may not affect that. Personally I haven't found that much difference between about 100W and 120W, what matters is getting to 4450MHz all core effective (since 4450 is Fmax for all-core load). There are a lot of things about this CPU that go against conventional Zen 3 wisdom.
> 
> Beyond 120W temps really start to climb, and due to Fmax and basically score cap at 15k, no point going further. AMD set way too ambitious a PPT out of the box for these. For scores I'd let it go up to 100/65/90, but honestly the usual Eco limits work just as well if not chasing that last 1% of benchmark scores (88/60/90).
> 
> With a good cooler, if you can hit that clock target, 100W should be all you really need for 15k (after 15k the only real improvements in score will come from BCLK).





tabascosauz said:


> Glad you were able to sort it all out
> 
> Very interesting how the CO is working on your board. On both my boards it reduces temps and increases clocks, but has no effect on wattage by itself. Didn't reduce wattage for my 5900X, 5600G or 5700G either. But that's just the thing with Ryzen I guess, everyone's setup can work slightly differently out of the box.
> 
> ...


I guess it is unlike other 5000series and these limits are only "just names" apparently, and most likely it behaves like that because of the hard cap at clocks. So -CO does real undervolt since/if the CPU already hits the cap with out -CO.
Hence the lower wattage between the 2 runs w/ and w/o -CO.

You know the following but I'll just say it for the record
Every other 5000 will just keep boosting at +150~350MHz beyond its advertised speeds when/if possible so saving watts (when -CO is applied) is going down the drain, unless there is a hard-cap setting on power/current limit by the user.



Jacks. said:


> ok here you go first pic is with co applied
> View attachment 266243
> and this without co
> View attachment 266244
> ...


Probably this is as close as you can get to best thermals without braking the bank while having the most perf out of this CPU.

If I didn't know about the special core die configuration of the X3D I would say that 75~80C at 95~100W PPT is not all that good but this is not the case here.
Given the fact that there is an extra layer of cache on top of the "typical" Zen3 core die that thickens things under the hood I think we can say "the job is done".


----------



## tabascosauz (Oct 20, 2022)

Zach_01 said:


> I guess it is unlike other 5000series and these limits are only "just names" apparently, and most likely it behaves like that because of the hard cap at clocks. So -CO does real undervolt since/if the CPU already hits the cap with out -CO.
> Hence the lower wattage between the 2 runs w/ and w/o -CO.
> 
> You know the following but I'll just say it for the record
> ...



5800X3D generally can run even hotter than 5800X at same Vcore and power. It's pretty good for OP since their ambient is like 30C. iirc the actual cache sits over cache (middle), the core part is covered by a silicon spacer that apparently doesn't work great for thermals.

I wouldn't go into it with the expectation that CO will reduce power consumption on X3D, it is just very different depending on setup. I can adjust on the fly with PBO2 Tuner and both -0 and -30 will both land me around 120W package stock (obviously, one is at 76C and one is at 90C).

AGESA is very messy for this CPU. We can only use 1206 or 1207 BIOSes, but so far we have vendors forgetting to hide PBO menus, vendors killing performance on 1207 (mine drops from 4380 to 4250 in R23 on 1207, thankfully performance otherwise is great), and apparently 1206 can't even be modded because entire menu like CBS can't even be found



Mussels said:


> those results are running for 1 minute and 2 minutes
> 
> They're useless for anything other than 'current' values



How's it useless? R23 clocks shouldn't be all that variable over the course of a single run on any Zen 3, drop maybe 50-100Mhz at most. Unless the BIOS team at your board manufacturer was smoking a blunt at work and screwed the pooch royally

What would a 10 minute run solve, Cinebench clocks has a big dip in the few second gap between runs, I have a hard time believing Average column is somehow better than Mark 1 Eyeball watching HWInfo during the test

As long as scores are about right and snapshot core clock is close to effective, what's the issue


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 20, 2022)

Mussels said:


> those results are running for 1 minute and 2 minutes
> 
> They're useless for anything other than 'current' values


here you go 10 minutes run


----------



## Zach_01 (Oct 20, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> here you go 10 minutes run
> View attachment 266253


If you really want to do this right you have to do the following

1. Start the R23 MT
2. When squares start to fill wait 3~4sec and click reset (clock) button on HWiNFO sensors window
3. Take screenshot ~10sec before last run ends

This way you will capture the "Average" effective clocks of all cores and only during the run, and basically every other CPU sensor.

The 10min R23 run is a bit tricky for metrics as its not a continuous one but rather a cycling one with very small pauses in between. Who ever tries to interpret it will have to consider this.
I used it too though for CPU performance and boosting evaluation as I dont like burn/stress tests much.

FYI,
Core VID voltage values are not anything useful to see as these are just core requests and not what the core voltage really is.


----------



## Jacks. (Oct 20, 2022)

Zach_01 said:


> If you really want to do this right you have to do the following


i got what you said and did it before i did many testing before posting about the d15 and got the same result didn't dip below 4.4 i just can't repeat now cause i have to return the cooler


----------



## Mussels (Oct 23, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> here you go 10 minutes run
> View attachment 266253


That's at full speed.

No throttling, no clock stretching.
97-99W means the undervolt is definitely working, you're not going to get any better than this.

If your scores are lower than you expect, you've got software using those CPU cycles.



Jacks. said:


> i got what you said and did it before i did many testing before posting about the d15 and got the same result didn't dip below 4.4 i just can't repeat now cause i have to return the cooler


They run 4.45 but seeing 4.41 like you did is normal as that's just the result of say 99.9MHz being measured and rounding down


----------



## Taraquin (Oct 24, 2022)

Mussels said:


> That's at full speed.
> 
> No throttling, no clock stretching.
> 97-99W means the undervolt is definitely working, you're not going to get any better than this.
> ...


Turn off spread spectrum, that can improve MHz stability


----------



## Jacks. (Nov 21, 2022)

ok so for everyone who still interested i finally got the cooler nh-d15 today and everything went as expected the scores is the same as the pic above that end that problem so thank you all for helping


----------



## Mussels (Nov 21, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> ok so for everyone who still interested i finally got the cooler nh-d15 today and everything went as expected the scores is the same as the pic above that end that problem so thank you all for helping


Whats the temps like now?

D15 should be about as good as you can get


----------



## wolf (Nov 21, 2022)

Hijacking a little based on source content.

I have successfully done the in windows PBO2 undervolt with my X3D, -22 all core allows sustained clocks of 4450mhz all core in games, don't really feel the need to push further as it's rock stable, lower temps and not dropping clocks at all in game.

My question is, I feel like someone has previously mentioned it may be possible to find or request a custom version of my motherboard bios to allow PBO2 UV with the X3D, anyone here know who or where I would ask for that?


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 21, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> ok so for everyone who still interested i finally got the cooler nh-d15 today and everything went as expected the scores is the same as the pic above that end that problem so thank you all for helping



Awesome. Enjoy!



wolf said:


> Hijacking a little based on source content.
> 
> I have successfully done the in windows PBO2 undervolt with my X3D, -22 all core allows sustained clocks of 4450mhz all core in games, don't really feel the need to push further as it's rock stable, lower temps and not dropping clocks at all in game.
> 
> My question is, I feel like someone has previously mentioned it may be possible to find or request a custom version of my motherboard bios to allow PBO2 UV with the X3D, anyone here know who or where I would ask for that?



Ask reous or some of the other bios modders in the 5800X3D thread:









						5800X3D Owners
					

Scroll Down For Gaming Results If Not Interested In Details  TLDR: 5800X3D is a monster at gaming, is easily OCd, and runs hot and beats even a tuned 5950x in most games; for general computing the 5800x, and more importantly now, the 5700x trounce it when OCd as well but cannot match it in...




					www.overclock.net


----------



## wolf (Nov 21, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Ask reous or some of the other bios modders in the 5800X3D thread:


Thank you very much! it may have even been you that first suggested it to me 

Bonus question, is there a way to boost clock speed at all on the X3D, in windows, bios or otherwise? or is 4450mhz where the buck stops?


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 21, 2022)

wolf said:


> Thank you very much! it may have even been you that first suggested it to me
> 
> Bonus question, is there a way to boost clock speed at all on the X3D, in windows, bios or otherwise? or is 4450mhz where the buck stops?



4450 is where it stops for >3 cores, if less cores active then up to 4550

So far no one has cracked the Fmax wall, if you try increasing Fmax then CPU goes to base clock


----------



## puma99dk| (Nov 21, 2022)

Jacks. said:


> ok so for everyone who still interested i finally got the cooler nh-d15 today and everything went as expected the scores is the same as the pic above that end that problem so thank you all for helping





Mussels said:


> Whats the temps like now?
> 
> D15 should be about as good as you can get



I am running the chrome.max version of the NH-D15 with only one fan on it.

I don't do intensive loads only gaming and so far I am not disappointed good choice and I am running -50mv on my 5800X3D while gaming.


----------



## Jacks. (Nov 21, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Whats the temps like now?
> 
> D15 should be about as good as you can get


this test with background apps running without that i could get over 15000






puma99dk| said:


> I am running the chrome.max version of the NH-D15 with only one fan on it.
> 
> I don't do intensive loads only gaming and so far I am not disappointed good choice and I am running -50mv on my 5800X3D while gaming.


2 fans here and -30 didn't yet test games don't have time


----------



## Mussels (Nov 22, 2022)

wolf said:


> Hijacking a little based on source content.
> 
> I have successfully done the in windows PBO2 undervolt with my X3D, -22 all core allows sustained clocks of 4450mhz all core in games, don't really feel the need to push further as it's rock stable, lower temps and not dropping clocks at all in game.
> 
> My question is, I feel like someone has previously mentioned it may be possible to find or request a custom version of my motherboard bios to allow PBO2 UV with the X3D, anyone here know who or where I would ask for that?


asus boards have mods for it, i just googled my board name and bios mod


----------



## wolf (Nov 22, 2022)

Mussels said:


> asus boards have mods for it, i just googled my board name and bios mod


Should have bought the Asus, the Gigabyte is good and all but I miss my last Asus board, never gave me a hiccup. Doesn't look like anything is available for the Gigabyte X570 I Aorus Pro WiFi


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 22, 2022)

wolf said:


> Should have bought the Asus, the Gigabyte is good and all but I miss my last Asus board, never gave me a hiccup. Doesn't look like anything is available for the Gigabyte X570 I Aorus Pro WiFi



try asking verangry on ocn if he has made any or be willing to make any. He did a bunch of MSI BIOSes upon request when there were none, I used his A.71 mod for my Unify-X before switching back to reous' 4006 on Impact.

There's really not anything too special about the different vendors, it's just about getting them packaged back up properly to flash with flashback. Asus seems to be the only one where BIOS flashback is fussier as to the file. Doesn't hurt to ask, that's how we all started.









						5800X3D Owners
					

This means the board is modestly under reporting CPU power consumption, which will have very similar effects to increasing power limits.  Reducing power limits might allow higher or longer opportunistic boosting, depending on workload. Also, it's highly unlikely that -50 CO is actually taking...




					www.overclock.net


----------



## billeman (Nov 22, 2022)

FWIW, my 5800x3d runs best at offset -12, and is crashing and hot (85+C) at offset -30.

Temps are about 70C with offset -12 when running cinebench R23 with an ambient of 20C, and scores are the best with this offset.

My advice would be to take the time testing different offsets and check stability with corecycler. I personally take stability before performance any day, and in this case I have actually both.


----------



## Mussels (Nov 22, 2022)

billeman said:


> FWIW, my 5800x3d runs best at offset -12, and is crashing and hot (85+C) at offset -30.
> 
> Temps are about 70C with offset -12 when running cinebench R23 with an ambient of 20C, and scores are the best with this offset.
> 
> My advice would be to take the time testing different offsets and check stability with corecycler. I personally take stability before performance any day, and in this case I have actually both.


 
Mine just went to -30 and stayed there, it's very likely implemented different between boards


----------



## wolf (Dec 5, 2022)

Another Quesytion for the brains trust.

Undervolting my 5800X3D has been very successful, and I've followed the GitHub guide to apply at every start-up too. But I also now I've been dabbling with PPT, TDC and EDC, and found values I like.

It's not obvious to me how to add those 'arguments' to the scheduled task I've created, I've put my per core UV in there but don't want to break the task by getting it wrong. 

Any help appreciate, and screenshot for clarity of what portion I'm talking about.


----------



## wolf (Dec 7, 2022)

Quick bump for my previous question, hoping someone has crossed this bridge before.


----------



## 3x0 (Dec 7, 2022)

@wolf From the author https://www.overclock.net/threads/c...imizer-settings.1777398/page-45#post-28999750


> Use the following arguments order
> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ppt tdc edc fmax
> All four limits are required, use 0 to not override.
> e.g. to set only EDC limit to 320A





> 'path-to-a-binary\PBO2 tuner.exe' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 0 0 320 0'


----------



## Super Firm Tofu (Dec 7, 2022)

wolf said:


> Quick bump for my previous question, hoping someone has crossed this bridge before.




I don't use PBO2 for mine (not on windows), but found this info that you need to add the PPT, TDC, and EDC to the end with no commas, followed by a 0 (for no change to max frequency?).

120 PPT, 75 TDC, and 105 EDC in the example taken from the site.









						Ryzen 5800x3D Undervolt Easy Tutorial: Better temps, less power consumption, better CPU.
					

This amazing CPU runs too hot even with a good cooler. To my surprise doing an undervolt gave me better Cinebench 23 scores while running -12° cooler. Going to google and youtube searching for tutorials is kind of scattershot so I wanted to post the amalgamation of info found on how I made my...




					www.resetera.com


----------



## wolf (Dec 7, 2022)

@3x0 and @Super Firm Tofu many thanks for that, I'll add those arguments to my task


----------



## Mussels (Dec 7, 2022)

I'm so glad my asus board has the settings unlocked for BIOS entry


----------



## Sensates (Dec 7, 2022)

Could be irrelevant but does undervolting 5800x3d cause games to crash?

I have it at -30 for many months now, but playing new games like NFS Unbound and Warhammer Darktide crash very frequently. No issues with NFS Heat, Vermintide2, COD2022, OW2, Shatterline...etc


----------



## Mussels (Dec 7, 2022)

Sensates said:


> Could be irrelevant but does undervolting 5800x3d cause games to crash?
> 
> I have it at -30 for many months now, but playing new games like NFS Unbound and Warhammer Darktide crash very frequently. No issues with NFS Heat, Vermintide2, COD2022, OW2, Shatterline...etc


Any undervolting can cause that, yes.

The x3D seems to react differently to the undervolt than the regular chips by lowering clocks, but yeah it totally can be related - CPU's use different instructions, thread counts, etc. Even something as simple as using AVX or not


----------

