# Do any AMD GPUs pass thorough 5.1 via HDMI?



## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

*Do any AMD GPUs do 5.1 encoding via HDMI?*

(Title and first post edited)

*Do any AMD GPUs do 5.1 encoding via HDMI?*

It seems I'm reaching a dead end regarding Nvidia based cards being able to do a true 5.1 encode via HDMI, so I'm now looking to see if any AMD GPUs do.

In a digital audio pass through, I've read the hardware has to have 5.1 encoding firmware such as Dolby Digital LIVE, and DTS Connect to get true 5.1 surround from games.

My ASUS P6X58D-E does not support DDL or DTSC, and it's too soon for me to upgrade to another MB. I'd also prefer not having to get a sound card if I can avoid it.

So, the question is, do any AMD GPUs do 5.1 encoding via HDMI?


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## exodusprime1337 (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm not sure if it does do the passthrough.  I've been dealing with an issue regarding my sound card not outputting 5.1 in games via an optical cable, i finally just bit the bullet and put analog 5.1 cables back on, sounds awesome now


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## Jetster (Sep 27, 2012)

Anything 400 Nvidia and 5000 AMD or higher will bit stream DTS-HD and Dolby Digital HD Audio.  And actually the 200 Nividia will bit stream 5.1 just not HD

Some AMD cards require a Realtek HD driver for ATI installed on the motherboard.  The sound does it via the HDMI cable from the sound card its self. You have to select the sound device in the sound manager. It may also help to have CCCP codex pack installed

http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads...=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false
http://cccp-project.net/

What are you trying to bit stream too?


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## Mussels (Sep 27, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> It seems I'm reaching a dead end regarding Nvidia based cards being able to do a true 5.1 pass through via HDMI, so I'm now looking to see if any AMD GPUs do.
> 
> In a digital audio pass through, *I've read the hardware has to have firmware such as Dolby Digital LIVE,* be it a MB's onboard sound, a sound card or GPU with HDMI audio chip.
> 
> My ASUS P6X58D-E does not support Dolby Digital LIVE, and it's too soon for me to upgrade to another MB. I'd also prefer not having to get a sound card if I can avoid it.





that only applies to coax/SPDIF, where it had to be compressed. HDMI can do true 5.1 easily, so long as you have a HDMI receiver.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 27, 2012)

AMD GPUs have an audio device built in that drives the HDMI audio:






You select that as the output device and that's where the audio goes.  I'm pretty sure it supports 7.1.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

Sorry to say guys, but I can't be too optimistic about this since EVGA, the largest Nvidia partner, has their pre sales techs saying their video cards do not in fact pass through 5.1 from games via the HDMI connection. The device it's sent from, be it GPU, MB or sound card, has to encode it into the signal first.

Backing up, I realized I did not make it clear I was talking specifically about *game* audio, in case you were thinking otherwise. The problem is, game audio always comes in the form of PCM, which has to be encoded into DD or DTS to get true 5.1. Otherwise your receiver will only convert it to Pro Logic II at best.

This is why you see a handful of MBs and several sound cards incorporating Dolby Digital LIVE or DTS Connect, which is firmware that encodes the PCM signal with DD or DTS, then your receiver decodes it. Gigabyte made some MBs that supported this type of encoding, not sure they still do.

The cheapest fix I've found so far is the ASUS Xonar DS for $33 after MIR, which has DTS Connect. I've always wanted to play games in DTS, and as far as I know this would allow you to play any game in DTS. ASUS Xonar DS 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Inter...


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## TRWOV (Sep 27, 2012)

Well, you asked about "pass through" not DDL encoding, that's different. The GPUs won't encode the game audio to 5.1, they'll just pass through the PCM signal.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

Yeah sorry, that's my bad for not writing the title and first post clearly enough, I've edited it.

That said, ARE there any AMD GPUs with HDMI that DO encode the PCM signal, or am I stuck having to get a sound card?

OR, does anyone for any reason think the Nvidia 700 series might support this?


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## Jetster (Sep 27, 2012)

Why dont you list all your hardware. And explain what your trying to do


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

This is all the hardware that need be mentioned for this application, because it's the only type that ever has DD/DTS encoding.

No sound card
ASUS P6X58D-E MB
Palit GTS 250 1GB (being updated to MSI 660 Ti PE OC)
Yamaha RX-V371 receiver capable of DD and DTS decoding

I simply want to use a digital optical pass through and get DD or preferably DTS sound from games out of my receiver. Ideally I'd prefer a GPU with HDMI output that encodes the PCM signal with Dolby Digital or DTS, but it's looking like no Nvidia based cards do, and I'm not sure I want to switch back to ATI even if any of their's do, though I'd like to know which if any do anyway.

Thus the cheapest get me by solution seems to be a cheap sound card that supports Dolby Digital LIVE or DTS Connect. ASUS sound cords use DTS Connect, which I'd prefer over Creative sound cards, which use Dolby Digital LIVE.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 27, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> Backing up, I realized I did not make it clear I was talking specifically about *game* audio, in case you were thinking otherwise. The problem is, game audio always comes in the form of PCM, which has to be encoded into DD or DTS to get true 5.1. Otherwise your receiver will only convert it to Pro Logic II at best.


PCM can be "true 5.1" if it has 6 channels.  PCM is the raw audio stream which games do their own spacial processing on (e.g. a noise to the left rear of the player will predominently sent to the left rear channel).  In other words, you don't need and you shouldn't want DD/DTS or other signal processing on gaming audio.  DD and DTS are mostly for stereo in surround speaker systems.  Add to it the fact that signal processing is going to add latency (albeit minute) and it's an all-round bad idea.

Again, any digital-capable receiver should be able to handle a 6 channel PCM signal which doesn't require decoding.    All versions of HDMI (1.0-1.4) support 8 channel LPCM (192 kHz, 24-bit) so all HDMI receivers should too.


No AMD GPUs will encode a PCM signal to Dolby Digital.  Only sound cards will do that.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

From what I'm reading and most that I've talked to or read chat of are saying, Pro Logic II is merely simulated surround by creating 6 channels from stereo, whereas Dolby Digital starts out as 6 discrete channels. DTS is even better.

While I DO get decent stereo separation in the front channels, dialog separation in the center channel, and a separate sub channel using Pro Logic II in games, the rear channels, positional audio and overall sense of ambient surround I get in Dolby Digital TV broadcasts far surpasses it in depth and realism, so I beg to differ.

So yeah, my receiver (and most any) will "handle" a PCM signal by playing it as Pro Logic II, but Dolby Digital has much more fullness and presence. There's a reason ASUS goes with DTS Connect instead though. DTS IS a bit better sound than DD.

I would not be surprised that you are right about the AMD GPUs not supporting DD encoding though. Seems a waste of a perfectly good HDMI port to use it for mere Pro Logic II. I'm hoping future GPUs will support DD or DTS encoding via their HDMI port.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 27, 2012)

The chances of that happening are none.  Dolby wants money and most people buy video cards for graphics, not sound.  AMD and NVIDIA would have a tough time justifying the expense of paying fees to Dolby to license their technology.


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## Jetster (Sep 27, 2012)

Do not use Optical its an old standard. It will not do HD audio. The GPU and HDMI will pass digital HD audio just fine to your receiver. You source has to be DTS or DD to end up with it. Nothing will "encode" the audio and change the format to DTS from PCM that I'm aware of. It has to start as DTS. Just like to cant make a standard movie to HD. If will end up being Prolgic which your correct is simulated 5.1.

Talk to Bumblebee I think thats his name. He know more than I do


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## erixx (Sep 27, 2012)

Hi Frag,
You don't want to change the mobo, i know, but there are mobos that have onboard audio with digital output. Sorry if I am being mr. obvious.

And... How would you redirect the audio from the AMD HDMI VIDEO cable to your amplifier anyway? First to the monitor and then using "Audio out" from monitor to receiver? Isn't that too complex or non functional? Sorry but I am totally disconnected from TV tech (and usage).


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## cadaveca (Sep 27, 2012)

Jetster said:


> Nothing will "encode" the audio and change the format to DTS from PCM that I'm aware of.



My ASUS Xonar D2X does. It will take in almost any source, and live decode and then encode to almost any format.


I went down this road, with DVD playback, then BluRay...blah, blah, blah blah blah...

Unfortunately, even though the D2X is technically capable of doing DTS-HD and DolbyHD audio, it doesn't actually support it. Then I gave up. 

Oh, and software support is required, too.


Unfortunately, for PC audio, and games, really, the best bet is to use analogue outputs, and that requires an amp that has the proper inputs. Fortuantely, I got all that, but I still jsut use Stereo. 



erixx said:


> Isn't that too complex or non functional? Sorry but I am totally disconnected from TV tech (and usage).



Usually, yes.

Oh, and the reason why..isn't becuase of liscensing..it's because of how the HDCP stuff works. That's why ASUS has a specific card for adding audio to the HDMI signal...and guess what...that card has some killer analogue outputs, too. Same reason why it's a problem on the PC, too.


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## TRWOV (Sep 27, 2012)

you'll likely need an Asus Xonar to achieve what you want.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

@FordGT,
No doubt correct. I don't know what Dolby and DTS are charging for their codec licensing, but when GPU chip vendors compete within $5-$10 dollar amounts like a Wal-mart on steroids, you know they want to go as cheap as they can on price points.

My argument is they could at least offer ONE model in their line that does. When you figure that HDMI offers superior audio signal throughput to optical, and DD and DTS being better than sim surround, it would be quite a bit better actually. And what about HTPC needs?

They tested the waters with a funky GTX 260 that accepts S/PDIF pass through via a very strange little cable, yet they won't try so much as ONE HTPC/gaming card that has audio encoding via HDMI?

@Jet,
Don't you think I'd use something better than optical if I could? I kinda made it apparent already that I'm shooting for A) better and simpler audio/video connectivity, and B) better surround sound.

Yes HDMI will pass digital audio, but regarding games, mere PCM that can only be decoded to Pro Logic II. The "HD" part regarding games is kinda an oxymoron though, because no game uses HD audio. It's all compressed.

@erixx,
It would not be mere "digital" audio I'd be looking for on a MB, were I even to be needing/wanting such an upgrade at the moment. It would be one that might encode DD or better yet DTS. A MB's optical or digital coaxial output will always use PCM, which is merely a "digital" audio storage format using Pulse Code Modulation. Thus not all things digital are created equal.

Now there WERE some MBs made that encoded DD and even DTS via Dolby Digital LIVE and DTS Connect, but they are pretty rare and maybe even non existent anymore. Gigabyte seems to have made most of them in the more recent years, and dubbed the feature Dolby Home Theater in the latter models.

@TRW,
Yes, that's the conclusion I'm coming to, specifically the Xonar DS mentioned, which can be had for $33 after rebate. I have reservations due to the infamous sound card driver debacle, doubts about how long PCI slots will be used, and even whether there will be as much sound difference as I'm hoping for.

However a quick check showed even Z77 MBs still commonly sporting up to 3 PCI slots though, and feedback on the Xonar DS indicates with proper install of drivers there's much less chance of problems.


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

@ Frag Maniac

There is no need to do any encoding as this just brings in compression artifacts and more cpu cycles.

AMD GPU's can do full PCM 7.1 output via HDMI to receivers, for PCM if memory serves HD 2xxx and above can do and for HD Audio, the HD 5xxxx and above support this. In my case I set this as 5.1 and this acts as if a sound card with analogue outputs was set to 5.1 and no need for rubbish like DD/DTS encoding.










Take a look at the above images and it should give you an idea what your receiver is negotiated to support and then setup as required.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

In my findings it's not so much what the receiver supports as what the audio codec doing the pass through supports, in this case, a Realtek HD ALC889 on my ASUS P6X58D-E MB. However when I look in the properties of the Realtek Optical Output in Advanced settings I only get 2-channel options.

In searching for answers I found this interesting thread. The 2nd post on this page shows the settings page where I only get 2-channel options. If you scroll about a third way down the page, scorrpio's post explains why that may be. http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/759896.aspx

As for a 5.1 or 7.1 PCM output option, I've never seen such a thing. After all, PCM IS a stereo signal that merely contains surround encoding IF it's encoded at all. Show me any sound setting option for your sound device that states 5.1 or 7.1 "PCM" and I'll eat my hat.

Honestly, I'd settle for 5.1 PCM if there were such an option, but I (and I'm sure pretty much everyone) only ever get a 2.1 result at best on the receiver end when using straight PCM. Keep in mind I'm not comparing DD and DTS to PCM here either, I'm comparing them to Pro Logic II.

I'm fully aware PCM is a loss-less signal converted to digital, but the primary reason it exists and was created was to carry surround encoding. It's being loss-less in the application of gaming also has no significant value, since game audio is compressed to begin with.

Typically the only time you see PCM used in it's raw, loss-less form is on DVD's that have it as one of the playback options, primarily concert DVDs that offer PCM stereo. Even some Blu-ray concert discs still have PCM stereo as an option.

The "Encoded Formats" list at the bottom of your first pic likely contains one of the formats your system is outputting, not PCM. PCM is only a stereo carrier signal, much like AVI is a container, not an actual video codec. Loss-less audio is not a reality in gaming.


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## Jetster (Sep 27, 2012)

So did you try this Realtek HD driver and software? 

http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads...=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

Your question now is very different to your original post, on-board audio is inherently basic and poor vs any add-on solution. Yes as the SPDIF is limited to a max of a 1.5mbit stream, it can do stereo PCM or DD/DTS bitstreams at best you cant expect more from it.

Regards to PCM being stereo in nature and just containing surround encoding IS NOT true, PCM fully supports 7.1 @ 24/192 with ease over HDMI. PCM is to WAV as DD/DTS is to MP3 in simple terms.

PCM is the best output you could want via any digital output outside bitstreaming the audio from DVD/Bluray etc directly to the AVR, in my case its 5.1 @ 24bit/96kHz to my AVR for games and music etc and bitstreaming for media playback.

So to the basic question for AMD GPU's supporting this, disable onboard sound use the sound card on the AMD GPU and set as required to use HDMI to the receiver and you will have the best and simplest option. The exception would be if you have a AVR with poor DAC's and a sound card that focuses on high quality DAC's then going analogue to AVR would be a better option.

EDIT: as towards your Bluray PCM statement, this was mostly done on early disk's to be done cheaply and quickly. Any new well mastered disk should be using DTA-MA now and not LPCM. I have a number of disk's that use 5.1 LPCM tracks.

Over this, last edit: SPDIF =! PCM. You asked about HDMI now focusing on SPDIF so think you are confusing yourself. ALL formats come from PCM as such as this is the raw audio which then gets encoded to formats such as MP3/DD/DTS and etc. SPDIF is simply an inferior and obsolete tech which cant deal with the bandwidth requirements of multichannel PCM whereby HDMI has no such limitations and fully supports native multichannel PCM. Dolby Pro Logic II or similar have nothing to do with PCM, its simply a technology for channel expansion.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

If that's true, it would be tempting to try an AMD GPU just for that alone, but then if that were true, what some are saying about Nvidia HD audio outputting 5.1 would be as well, yet EVGA's pre sale's techs say otherwise. Then again I was asking the EVGA specifically about gaming.

A bit of more searching revealed talk of 5.1 PCM, so I won't doubt you on that. We are talking GAME PCM here though, which is always stereo. So while AMD, and perhaps Nvidia cards, may very well output PCM 5.1, they won't with games because games don't come with anything more than PCM stereo.

I know where you're coming from when you imply PCM stereo is old school. God knows I conveyed the same thing along with no gaming GPUs encoding 5.1 keeping us in the stone ages to the EVGA guy today. 

DD and DTS may not be loss-less like PCM, but since A) game audio is compressed to begin with, and B) it's carried via a *stereo* PCM signal, they're still a MUCH better option than Pro Logic II if you want surround sound.

So, bottom line, while PCM may exist in forms other than stereo, in the application I'm referring to, it only ever exists in stereo, so 5.1 or 7.1 PCM is kinda moot to the conversation unfortunately.


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

I AM using 5.1 from my AMD GPU (7970) over HDMI to my Yamaha receiver for games, there is no debate to be had.

Games for most part output their audio where it be stereo or 5.1 to the windows mixer, this then takes your audio drivers/setup and outputs as appropriate which will be 5.1 on a properly configured system with HDMI and receiver.

Any recent Nvidia card is the same or recent intel integrated graphics, only the 1st nvidia ones to support HDMI audio but simply used a SPDIF header from motherboard would not apply here which is what I think you may have.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

That's great news if true, but hard to believe at this point after what I've read and heard. It still doesn't explain why none of the settings pages you showed had any PCM 5.1, only the aforementioned other formats and a few others.

So when you play games, does your receiver display show PCM as the decoded audio format and all 6 channel icons? Can you post a pic of your advanced page of the sound options as shown in scorrpio's post on the thread I linked to? I'd be interested in what it says.

I'll have to try and ask an Nvidia tech about this if I can get a hold of one. Ideally I want just an HDMI cable from my video card and that's it. HDMI is so much better for audio than optical it's ridiculous. The sound still won't be loss-less even if it IS PCM, since it's compressed on the game end, but at least the loss ends there.


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

Windows output is PCM, as PCM is uncompressed audio.
This is what my receiver shows, end of story.


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## Mussels (Sep 27, 2012)

all i seem to  be reading over and over in this thread, is confused information regarding old 5.1 standards (via SPDIF and coax) and HDMI.


they're different. can people please get their information straight.



if you want 5.1 over the old digital standards - you need dolby digital live, or DTS connect.

If you want it over HDMI, you just need HDMI. thats it.


if you want HDMI to the TV, and optical out to a receiver, then you need the old standards (DD/DTS C)




Frag Maniac said:


> If that's true, it would be tempting to try an AMD GPU just for that alone, but then if that were true, what some are saying about Nvidia HD audio outputting 5.1 would be as well, yet EVGA's pre sale's techs say otherwise. Then again I was asking the EVGA specifically about gaming.
> 
> A bit of more searching revealed talk of 5.1 PCM, so I won't doubt you on that. We are talking GAME PCM here though, which is always stereo. So while AMD, and perhaps Nvidia cards, may very well output PCM 5.1, they won't with games because games don't come with anything more than PCM stereo.
> 
> ...



If you're going to keep talking about what someone else has said - quote the information, and link to its source in full. it sounds like you've misinterpreted information. (again with old standards vs HDMI - early nvidia cards used SPDIF inputs, which meant the old DDL/DTS connect limits applied. modern hardware has no such limitation.)


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

OK, sorry, but a slight change of direction here. Some good news, some bad. I'd forgotten my Palit GTS 250 1GB Green Edition does in fact have HDMI out. The reason I had not used it was I had PC speakers prior via analog out on my MB and no receiver. Plus my case is close to the HDMI port and my beefy Belkin Pure HDMI cable wouldn't fit in it. 

I just got done trimming a bit of rubber off the edge of the grip on the HDMI cable plug and got it to fit OK. I also installed the mini S/PDIF pass through cable that came with my GPU, which connects the S/PDIF out header on my MB to the S/PDIF in on my GPU.

I have checked directions in the MB and GPU manuals, along with close up pics on the net, and I'm sure I have both installed correctly. The HDMI port/cable carries the video signal to my display no problem, but I'm seeing no Nvidia HDMI option in W7 sound panel.

I've checked and there seems to commonly be problems with this ranging from no HDMI option to no sound even with an HDMI option, etc. I have checked my Nvidia install folder and it shows HD Audio having been installed. I also reinstalled driver 306.23 with a clean install just to make sure it is.

I don't even see anything but Realtek HD Audio in Device Manager either. There's no other High Definition Audio devices shown anywhere. I'm kinda at a stand still not knowing what to try next. I also see no option for enabling HDMI audio in the NCP.

I was hoping the worst of it would be possibly not being able to get ARC to work for anything but TV broadcasts with the current HDMI hookup I have, and I worried about adding input lag if I took the HDMI from the PC into the receiver vs the TV.

First things first though. If I can't even get an HDMI option to show in the sound panel, I'll have to go back to using the optical cable, which btw, I DID unplug before doing all this. Any suggestions on how to get this working? Is this common with these older S/PDIF pass through GPUs? I wonder if S/PDIF pass through is only supported on older drivers, or just glitchy depending what MB/GPU combo you have.


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## CJCerny (Sep 27, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> (Title and first post edited)
> 
> *Do any AMD GPUs do 5.1 encoding via HDMI?*
> 
> ...



OP, to answer your question, the answer is no. There aren't any ATI or Nvidia cards that do any kind of encoding of games to 5.1 DD. The HDMI connectors on them only serve as a passthrough for whatever the source is--for games, that would typically just be 2.0 PCM. If your only goal in life is to send games in true Dolby 5.1 digitally to a receiver, you need to buy a sound card that can do DD Live encoding and then connect that sound card to your receiver digitally.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

"Only goal in life", a bit harsh don't you think?

We've already passed the point you're commenting on anyway. Read my last post, that's where I'm at now. If I can't get this working, hopefully I can at least get HDMI audio to work on the 660 Ti I'm considering.

Ideally I'd like to get it running like Vip's is and forgo any lossy encoding. I DO have a Yamaha receiver, although maybe a lower end model than his. Right now it's a matter of getting my feet wet with this HDMI audio option stuff to gain a little confidence before I even decide on getting a better card that supports it.

Hopefully it's just these older one's with a separate S/PDIF pass through that are finicky.


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## Mussels (Sep 27, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> OK, sorry, but a slight change of direction here. Some good news, some bad. I'd forgotten my Palit GTS 250 1GB Green Edition does in fact have HDMI out. The reason I had not used it was I had PC speakers prior via analog out on my MB and no receiver. Plus my case is close to the HDMI port and my beefy Belkin Pure HDMI cable wouldn't fit in it.
> 
> I just got done trimming a bit of rubber off the edge of the grip on the HDMI cable plug and got it to fit OK. I also installed the mini S/PDIF pass through cable that came with my GPU, which connects the S/PDIF out header on my MB to the S/PDIF in on my GPU.
> 
> ...



those old cards had no HDMI. its  using the SPDIF output of your motherboard - so output the sound via that, in windows.


also, its SPDIF. so i repeat yet again - you will only get SPDIF signals. stereo PCM, or DD live/DTS connect (which depends on your soundcard, NOT the video card since you're using the soundcard as the audio source). 
Make sure you're got a compatible output method selected.


also, not all of the older cards supported it, despite the hardware being there. i had 50/50 odds with that.


As a clarification:

With that nvidia card, you are using DVI (video card) and SPDIF (from your onboard) in the shape of a HDMI cable. you are not using true HDMI audio. This is not going to be anything similar to what you would get with a true HDMI audio capable video card (and i assume, HDMI capable receiver)


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

@ Frag Maniac

While the fact that your nvidia card uses HDMI physically to transport the audio, this in practise is no different from using SPDIF from on-board sound as it just does a pass though from the motherboard SPDIF header. Any new graphics card that supports HDMI should allow for full HDMI audio functions but as always look for confirmation.

@ CJCerny

True the cards don't support DD/DTS encoding but this would be be a complete waste of time. Any current graphics product with recent HDMI spec will output audio as transparently as any analogue sound card when set appropriately.


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## CJCerny (Sep 27, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> "Only goal in life", a bit harsh don't you think?
> 
> We've already passed the point you're commenting on anyway. Read my last post, that's where I'm at now. If I can't get this working, hopefully I can at least get HDMI audio to work on the 660 Ti I'm considering.
> 
> ...



Wasn't trying to be harsh. Was trying to point out that you won't be able to do you want even with a brand new video card with a perfectly working HDMI output. The HDMI output on a recently manufactured video card is only capable of outputting what it is handed by the software that is doing the handing. Games, when running under Win 7, don't have the ability to hand DD/DTS 5.1 to the HDMI output. Pre-recorded soundtracks like those on a DVD or Blu-ray disc will travel over the HDMI output, if the app you are using to play the disc is capable of passing that kind of soundtrack. Think of it as a dumb conduit that can't do anything but send what the app you are running tells it to send. Does that make sense?


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

CJCerny said:


> Wasn't trying to be harsh. Was trying to point out that you won't be able to do you want even with a brand new video card with a perfectly working HDMI output. The HDMI output on a recently manufactured video card is only capable of outputting what it is handed by the software that is doing the handing. Games, when running under Win 7, don't have the ability to hand DD/DTS 5.1 to the HDMI output. Pre-recorded soundtracks like those on a DVD or Blu-ray disc will travel over the HDMI output, if the app you are using to play the disc is capable of passing that kind of soundtrack. Does that make sense?



Any recent game will look at the current configuration of the primary audio device and use it as appropriate, if the game supports 5.1 it will give 5.1 to the windows mixer. At this point HDMI, analogue etc have nothing to do with the output other than providing the game the knowledge of what default output is currently in use. At this point it is then up to the drivers to output this as configured to the external device. There is actually no different in output options between HDMI and analogue other than HDMI gets negotiated to what the receiver will support and limit options based on this.


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## CJCerny (Sep 27, 2012)

VipZUK said:


> Any recent game will look at the current configuration of the primary audio device and use it as appropriate, if the game supports 5.1 it will give 5.1 to the windows mixer. At this point HDMI, analogue etc have nothing to do with the output other than providing the game the knowledge of what default output is currently in use. At this point it is then up to the drivers to output this as configured to the external device. There is actually no different in output options between HDMI and analogue other than HDMI gets negotiated to what the receiver will support and limit options based on this.



That isn't quite right. A properly coded game does look at the Windows mixer. That doesn't mean a game is going to pass as 5.1 Dolby or DTS. It is going to pass it as 5.1 PCM. It takes hardware or software to turn PCM into Dolby or DTS. If the OP's receiver is fine with 5.1 PCM, then he should be happy, but if it is Dolby or DTS that he really wants/needs, then he is sunk.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

@Mussels,
It DOES have an HDMI *port* anyway, and as I said it's currently working via at least video as I type this. Whether this particular card in this particular system hardware config can support it's S/PDIF pass through properly, now that's another question, and it may be driver punctuated as well. What worries me is I don't even see an Nvidia HDMI audio option in the W7 sound panel, and no one's offering any ideas on how to solve that in itself, so it's looking grim, at least for this card.

I get the feeling you're saying there actually shouldn't be any Nvidia HDMI audio option showing with this type of card though, correct? Realtek S/PDIF Optical Output still shows as an option and is enabled. I was just assuming there'd have to be something to designate the actual physical connection from the PC to the display when using HDMI vs Optical.

@Vip,
OK, physically it's HDMI, but effectively a S/PDIF pass through. Sounds a lot like what Mussels just said. So you guys are saying I SHOULD still see Realtek Optical out as the one to use, vs Nvidia HDMI out? Does this mean provided I have the pass through mini cable connected properly my receiver should get audio?

Haven't actually gone that far and tested audio yet, since I assumed there had to be an Nvidia HDMI out option showing. Should I leave the PC connected to the TV with the main out on the receiver hooked to the main in (ARC) port on the TV? Does ARC actually work for more than just TV broadcasts? I'd probably get less video input lag with it hooked this way.

@CJ,
How does one know if their receiver is PCM 5.1 capable? I have the Yamaha RX-V371. I may be getting a Pioneer Elite VSX-60 in a few months though.


----------



## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

CJCerny said:


> That isn't quite right. A properly coded game does look at the Windows mixer. That doesn't mean a game is going to pass as 5.1 Dolby or DTS. It is going to pass it as 5.1 PCM. It takes hardware or software to turn PCM into Dolby or DTS. If the OP's receiver is fine with 5.1 PCM, then he should be happy, but if it is Dolby or DTS that he really wants/needs, then he is sunk.



I never mentioned anything about DD/DTS as this is not relevant in any way. Also I would think its impossible to find an HDMI receiver which support DD/DTS decoding but not PCM.



Frag Maniac said:


> @Vip,
> OK, physically it's HDMI, but effectively a S/PDIF pass through. Sounds a lot like what Mussels just said. So you guys are saying I SHOULD still see Realtek Optical out as the one to use, vs Nvidia HDMI out? Does this mean provided I have the pass through mini cable connected properly my receiver should get audio?



In this case I would recommend sticking with realtek and forget trying to pass though via nvidia. The realtek is still actualy doing the work anyway when going through the graphics card, its simply an option to remove a cable requirement.


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## CJCerny (Sep 27, 2012)

A newer receiver like the Yamaha RX-V371 should have no problem with 5.1 PCM. There were plenty of receivers early after Dolby Digital was intruduced that were only able to handle 2 channel PCM.


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

CJCerny said:


> A newer receiver like the Yamaha RX-V371 should have no problem with 5.1 PCM. There were plenty of receivers early after Dolby Digital was intruduced that were only able to handle 2 channel PCM.



While this is very true, I doubt that they actually had HDMI inputs, only the typical SPDIF and analogue inputs. PCM is the raw base requirement for any HDMI audio and was designed for 7.1 from the start it, would only possibly apply to receivers not deserving of their name or rubbish AIO systems.

@Frag Maniac, that AVR is a decent entry level one. You may want to upgrade your graphics card before a new AVR to get the most out of them.


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## CJCerny (Sep 27, 2012)

The bottom line is that the OP is at the mercy of how each and every game is coded. If the game only wants to send 2 channel PCM across that HDMI cable no matter what the Windows mixer is set to, his only option is to do post-processing on it in the receiver. There isn't a "all games must pass DD 5.1" standard for the PC like there is for the PS3 or 360.


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

Yes that's very true, but think that's bit off topic as that is purely down to the game and API changes in Vista+. Windows does allow for speaker fill etc but I prefer all my audio native, stereo to be stereo and 5.1 to be 5.1 or if I really want to up mix I would go set windows to 2.0 and let AVR do the rest.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

CJCerny said:


> A newer receiver like the Yamaha RX-V371 should have no problem with 5.1 PCM. There were plenty of receivers early after Dolby Digital was intruduced that were only able to handle 2 channel PCM.



Please then, tell me why no matter what audio source via PC, be it games, YouTube vids, anything, I get only PCM 2.1 when I run the receiver in "Straight" mode? I can then hit the "Movie" button and scroll through to "Action Game", "Role Playing Game", etc, but then it just goes from saying PCM 2.1 to "Pro Logic II Game 5.1".

If I'm in Straight PCM 2.1 mode to begin with, then hit Surround Decode, it still reverts to a Pro Logic II 5.1 format. If you think this receiver is capable of 5.1 PCM, I'd sure as heck like to know how.

BTW, I tried testing for audio with the HDMI cable connected to the TV, then with it connected to the receiver. I only get video if it's connected to the TV. I get no audio either way. Thus I hooked my optical cable back up.

Sad to say I'm lacking confidence in whether even a 660 Ti would carry both audio and video over HDMI, with this OR an Elite receiver. Hopefully it's just these old S/PDIF pass through models being finicky or inept though.


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## CJCerny (Sep 27, 2012)

Go to the Control Panel. Select the Sound option. Select the HDMI audio device. Click on Configure. How many speakers do you have configured?


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

Frag Maniac, you have got mixed up again. You get 2.0 PCM at best due to the limitations of SPDIF, you need you upgrade your graphics card to get true HDMI audio output and not like the initial Nvidia hacky SPDIF passthought like you currently have.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

CJCerny said:


> Go to the Control Panel. Select the Sound option. Select the HDMI audio device. Click on Configure. How many speakers do you have configured?



If you're talking about the W7 vs Nvidia control panel, I already said several times I cannot get Nvidia HDMI Audio to even show up in the sound control panel, nor Device Manager for that matter.


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## CJCerny (Sep 27, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> If you're talking about the W7 vs Nvidia control panel, I already said several times I cannot get Nvidia HDMI Audio to even show up in the sound control panel, nor Device Manager for that matter.



The Windows mixer needs to be set to 5.1 speakers too. That doesn't mean your current set up will work, but that is one piece of the puzzle that needs to be in place.


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> If you're talking about the W7 vs Nvidia control panel, I already said several times I cannot get Nvidia HDMI Audio to even show up in the sound control panel, nor Device Manager for that matter.



You don't have a Nvidia sound card due to it simply doing a physical passthough from onboard sound.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

VipZUK said:


> Frag Maniac, you have got mixed up again. You get 2.0 PCM at best due to the limitations of SPDIF, you need you upgrade your graphics card to get true HDMI audio output and not like the initial Nvidia hacky SPDIF passthought like you currently have.



LOL, yeah Vip, I'll try to use that as a confidence booster and maybe go ahead and get the MSI 660 Ti PE OC I've been tempted by. I shouldn't let this hacky smacky crap spoil my opinion of HDMI on GPUs I guess. 

Truth be told this old 250 I got for $70 over a year and a half ago has served me better than I thought it would. It's a measly 675MHz down-clocked green edition I've been running at slightly higher speeds than the highest factory OCed ones with no over-volting (isn't possible anyway without a mod) and no problems. Runs pretty cool too.

Regardless of how it's doing that pass through and whether or whether not there should be any HDMI audio option showing, I sure as heck can't get any sound out of it, so not so sure it's passing anything through audio wise at this point. Well, it was worth a shot, even if I did hack up my cable a bit in the process.


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

Yip, Nvidia's 1st "HDMI Audio" was a joke, avoid like the plague 

Once you get proper HDMI audio everything becomes awesome, simple non fuss drivers, 24/96 @ 5.1 output. Just a note most games don't like Windows set to 5.1 @ 24/192 and will simply not output anything and dropping down to 5.1 24/96 fixes all that.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

LOL, I thought most of us gamers let go of the audiophile 192 temptation long ago. I did anyway. Do you notice the way the high end audio dealers at places like Magnolia look down at you when they ask what the intended use is? It's like that smug, you're not worthy glance of disapproval.


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## CJCerny (Sep 27, 2012)

Getting a new video card will simplify things, for sure. If you are only going to use the receiver for sound, install the new video card, disable your onboard sound in the BIOS, set the Windows mixer for as many speakers as it will allow you to. Games will pass as many channels of sound as they are coded to to the receiver. If you want to play back DVDs, keep in mind that Media Player can only pass 2.0 PCM or 5.1 DD, not any DTS. If you want to play back Blu-ray and your receiver supports it, you will need a playback app that supports the passing of hi-res DD and DTS type soundtracks. Otherwise, you will only get regular DD tracks from your Blu-ray playback software. It's confusing, but not difficult to understand after you use such a system for a while.


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## m1dg3t (Sep 27, 2012)

Hahaha Enjoy your HDMI & PC adventures. Best you'll get with HDMI is PCM passthrough.

Take the hint from the audio card MFGs and their complete & utter removal of ANY HDMI based card/s 

4Yrs, 2 HDAV 1.3s, countless drivers/firmwares and a shitload of useless Asus "techs" later I still only get PCM...

My AVR is a Yamaha DSP z7....

Fuck Asus and fuck HDMI! Useless cash grab interface.

DVI & analogue/optical outs FTW 

Edit: Asus wont even take these cards back from me! If that doesn't say it all...


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

So yeah, the 660 Ti itself will no doubt be better audio wise, but I'm a bit concerned about the way to hook up the HDMI cables as I've been saying.

Does ARC typically work to return just TV audio to the receiver, or can it also pass PC audio from the TV to the receiver if I hook the PC to the TV vs the receiver.

I tried connecting the PC to the receiver via one of the open HDMI ports, and got no picture from the PC on the TV even when in that HDMI mode on the receiver's remote.

@CJ,
Actually I have a Panasonic Blu-ray player. I have however recently reinstalled MPC HC since I read great reviews on the latest versions running MadVR, LAV and ReClock. I thought the latest VLC had big improvements, but this blows me away.  I watched a recording of Breaking Bad on it and couldn't tell the picture and sound from an HDTV broadcast, amazing. I've yet to install the DTS HD plugin, which I forgot whom makes, but I rarely get a hold of recordings that have that anyway. That's what my Blu-ray rentals are for. Thank God for Netflix.

@m1dg,
Wise guy, eh? Are you trying to break my HDMI confidence again? Coincidentally I just saw the modern version of The Three Stooges the other night. Somehow seeing actors portraying them in color on Blu-ray just loses a lot. More is sometimes less as they say.


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> LOL, I thought most of us gamers let go of the audiophile 192 temptation long ago. I did anyway.



hehe it was a case of curiosity and why not 



I connect 7970 -> Yamaha RX-V2065 -> Sammy 40" TV
Personally haven't used ARC due to my HDMI spec on AVR and TV, but I would still opt for my current connection setup.


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## m1dg3t (Sep 27, 2012)

HDMI is shit. Get over it. Cut your losses 

The "new" 3 Stooges wont even get a 2nd glimpse from me, saw a couple previews and just shook my head. I grew up with the Stooges, shit my dad even saw them perform live back in the day! I wouldn't want to sully those memories


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

VipZUK said:


> I connect 7970 -> Yamaha RX-V2065 -> Sammy 40" TV.



OK, so I guess the obvious is you have the main out on the receiver to the main in on the TV, but what port do you run your PC into the receiver with?

Also, have you checked how that connection compares to going straight into the TV as far as input lag in games?

The way you're doing it is the way a guy at Magnolia said I should hook it up. I just don't get why I didn't see my PC boot up on the TV with it hooked up that way.

You do have just the one HDMI cable from your receiver to the TV right?

@m1dg,
I'm thinking nothing is "shit" unless most can't get it working. If most can, then there's something wrong with either product or installation that the rest are using.

That said, I HAVE read that ASUS wasn't particularly good at licensing their onboard Realtek chips for 5.1 encoding when Gigabyte was on some of their's, but then it's more common for MB manufacturers not to than to pay for that.

There was a certain amount of, shall we say, experimenting, after MS dropped HAL, but all seems more sorted as of late.


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> OK, so I guess the obvious is you have the main out on the receiver to the main in on the TV, but what port do you run your PC into the TV with?
> 
> Also, have you checked how that connection compares to going straight into the TV as far as input lag in games?
> 
> The way you're doing it is the way a guy at Magnolia said I should hook it up. I just don't get why I didn't see my PC boot up on the TV with it hooked up that way.



For most part I would say my AVR has done nothing to affect my input lag, if anything is current setup is better than just TV.

The key things would be to set the AVR to do pass though etc on the video signal and avoid AVR doing any work there. Also for example my TV, each HDMI input behaves differently, some more compatible and other sharper so this is something you could also try. So from graphics card to AVR it would be both audio/video then AVR would decode and strip the audio from the signal leaving video to go to the TV.

I also have the issue with my H67/2400S HTPC that bios/windows boot doesn't show on TV, only once in Windows does the display work. My old AMD 5850 or 7970 doesn't have this issue.


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 27, 2012)

VipZUK said:


> For most part I would say my AVR has done nothing to affect my input lag, if anything is current setup is better than just TV.
> 
> The key things would be to set the AVR to do pass though etc on the video signal and avoid AVR doing any work there. Also for example my TV, each HDMI input behaves differently, some more compatible and other sharper so this is something you could also try. So from graphics card to AVR it would be both audio/video then AVR would decode and strip the audio from the signal leaving video to go to the TV.
> 
> I also have the issue with my H67/2400S HTPC that bios/windows boot doesn't show on TV, only once in Windows does the display work. My old AMD 5850 or 7970 doesn't have this issue.



As I said I have a Yamaha too, so the menu navigation should be similar. Can you tell me where to set it for pass through video? I was also wondering if it might have been a combination of not showing the BIOS splash screen and just taking a while to do the HDMI "hand shake" thing for the first time being hooked up that way. Maybe I just didn't give it enough time.

Anyways, it's 7:30 AM here and I should have gone to bed several hours ago, so I have to catch some shut eye. Thanks for all the responses guys, and keep them coming if you have anything more to add. I'll check back in when I look and feel less like a zombie.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Sep 27, 2012)

Jetster said:


> Talk to Bumblebee I think thats his name. He know more than I do



FYI Bumblebee is not a dude. And that's pretty sweet; definitely an expert.


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## VipZUK (Sep 27, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> As I said I have a Yamaha too, so the menu navigation should be similar. Can you tell me where to set it for pass through video? I was also wondering if it might have been a combination of not showing the BIOS splash screen and just taking a while to do the HDMI "hand shake" thing for the first time being hooked up that way. Maybe I just didn't give it enough time.
> 
> Anyways, it's 7:30 AM here and I should have gone to bed several hours ago, so I have to catch some shut eye. Thanks for all the responses guys, and keep them coming if you have anything more to add. I'll check back in when I look and feel less like a zombie.



Na, you will probably be better off just looking at the manual or take a poke around in the options, the menus got quite an upgrade from the xxx65 to xxx71 from what I read. But you basically looking for video function and HDMI control. I wasn't able to fix my HTPC issue so just use VGA if I need BIOS access, not a big deal to me.


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## m1dg3t (Sep 27, 2012)

Of course! It's my fault. All my fault. PEBKAC 

Have fun pulling your hair out


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 28, 2012)

Geez, m1dg, that's not really what I implied, unless you look at only the bad half. In fact from what I've just gleaned and experienced, it often has more to do with the age and model/brand of parts you're using. That doesn't mean those parts aren't improved upon though. No manufacturer in their right mind refuses to change the way they do things after getting lots of consumers disgruntled. Keep in mind much of that was experimental evolution of video cards, not just neglect. It's part of the process of PC "progress".

Just talked to a Yam tech and he said a more modern GPU may be needed for both audio and video pass through. He says it should work with the PC connected to the TV or the receiver, but leaned toward hooking it to the TV since it's a more direct video route and there should be no latency with ARC sending audio to the receiver. Actually he said there shouldn't be any lag either way, but less chance of it that way.

As far as settings go he said leave it the way it is, with HDMI Control and ARC turned on. So now I just need to pull the trigger on that GPU, trying hard not to think I can hold out for the 700 series. I mean this 250 has gotten me by, but certainly not without some lag here and there, and it not supporting HDMI properly is making me want to retire it to back-up duties.

I'm pretty sure the 700s will just be a Kepler refresh anyway. The Maxwells aren't due out till 2014 from what I've read. Maxwells are gonna be da bomb cuz they'll have onboard CPUs and less reliance on your system processor. Could make CPU OCing less necessary too.


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## cdawall (Sep 28, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> It DOES have an HDMI port anyway, and as I said it's currently working via at least video as I type this. Whether this particular card in this particular system hardware config can support it's S/PDIF pass through properly, now that's another question, and it may be driver punctuated as well. What worries me is I don't even see an Nvidia HDMI audio option in the W7 sound panel, and no one's offering any ideas on how to solve that in itself, so it's looking grim, at least for this card.



Anything short of the fermi series of cards require you install a spidf cable from the motherboard audio output into the audio input/pass through of the GTX 2xx series cards.

Once that is complete you will have this option inside of windows







I run that into my Harmon/Kardon AVR347 when I feel like playing on the big screen. The AVR347 outputs the video from the receiver into the TV via HDMI while putting out whatever PCM the game/movie runs from 2.0 to 7.1.


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## Mussels (Sep 28, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Anything short of the fermi series of cards require you install a spidf cable from the motherboard audio output into the audio input/pass through of the GTX 2xx series cards.
> 
> Once that is complete you will have this option inside of windows
> 
> ...



if you use SPDIF passthrough, it doesnt work that way. thats how it works with native HDMI only.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2012)

Let me make this real simple:

1. Your GTS 250 only has SPDIF pass-through.  SPDIF only supports 2.0 PCM or compressed 5.1 Dolby Digital/DTS.

2.  A new video card with HDMI 1.0 will support (from Wikipedia) *7.1 LPCM*, Dolby Digital, DTS, Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, MPCM, DSD, and DST.

3. Computers, by default, always send uncompressed LPCM on HDMI (exception being NVIDIA cards with SPDIF pass-through).  PCM is the great equalizer of audio--everything with an HDMI in is going to support it.


With those facts out of the way...


Frag Maniac said:


> *Do any AMD GPUs do 5.1 encoding via HDMI?*


No, because 7.1 LPCM is the best.  Why decode in the computer, encode to some compressed format, then have the receiver decode it again?  This is wasteful which is why all computers output is LPCM.

If your aim is to get 7.1 digital audio support, a new NVIDIA (anything newer than GeForce 200 series) or AMD card will do that if they have an HDMI out.




Frag Maniac said:


> My argument is they could at least offer ONE model in their line that does. When you figure that HDMI offers superior audio signal throughput to optical, and DD and DTS being better than sim surround, it would be quite a bit better actually. And what about HTPC needs?


No!  Encode/decode is inferior to uncompressed!  HDMI offers 7.1 192kHz, 24-bit uncomrpessed audio.  That's better than even DVD-Audio disks have.

Optical, as in SPDIF, is only 2.0 channel uncompressed.

HTPCs are more than happy with 7.1 uncompressed. 




Frag Maniac said:


> Don't you think I'd use something better than optical if I could?


This is why you need a newer card that has 7.1 LPCM output support instead of SPDIF pass-through.


What's your budget for a new graphics card and in what country?  We can point you to a graphics card that will fix all your SPDIF pass-through woes.


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## BumbleBee (Sep 28, 2012)

Dolby ninjas and their trickery.


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## Jetster (Sep 28, 2012)

Wrigleyvillain said:


> FYI Bumblebee is not a dude. And that's pretty sweet; definitely an expert.



My bad  Apologies Bumblebee. Well I'm glad the audio Calvary showed up


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## cdawall (Sep 28, 2012)

Mussels said:


> if you use SPDIF passthrough, it doesnt work that way. thats how it works with native HDMI only.



Mine is native HDMI. I simply was stating the _only_ way he would see an HDMI output using a pre-fermi card was using the spidf passthrough.


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## Mussels (Sep 28, 2012)

cdawall said:


> Mine is native HDMI. I simply was stating the _only_ way he would see an HDMI output using a pre-fermi card was using the spidf passthrough.



no, you dont see anything like that appear. its passthrough, so it shows as your onboard sound.


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## cdawall (Sep 28, 2012)

Mussels said:


> no, you dont see anything like that appear. its passthrough, so it shows as your onboard sound.



Hmmm I never knew that.  The NV control panel shows it oddly enough that's why I thought it popped up. I used it once a couple years ago on a customers rig. It worked never looked that hard into it however


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## Frag_Maniac (Sep 28, 2012)

Already hooked up the tiny S/PDIF pass through cable my 250 came with, didn't make any difference. Still no HDMI device showing in the sound panel and as others have said (and I agree) it's probably not supposed to since it's technically passing audio through from the Realtk chip vs actually having built -in audio itself. So why would it even show as an audio device?

@FordGT and others talking about multi channel PCM,
When I see 7.1 PCM being mentioned but not 5.1 PCM, it makes me a bit worried, because I did read one post from a user that said he saw a 7.1 PCM option but not 5.1, and he was using a 5.1 audio system.


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## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> Already hooked up the tiny S/PDIF pass through cable my 250 came with, didn't make any difference. Still no HDMI device showing in the sound panel and as others have said (and I agree) it's probably not supposed to since it's technically passing audio through from the Realtk chip vs actually having built -in audio itself. So why would it even show as an audio device?


It'll show up as an SPDIF device because of pass-through, not HDMI.




Frag Maniac said:


> @FordGT and others talking about multi channel PCM,
> When I see 7.1 PCM being mentioned but not 5.1 PCM, it makes me a bit worried, because I did read one post from a user that said he saw a 7.1 PCM option but not 5.1, and he was using a 5.1 audio system.


7.1 can do 5.1, 4.0, 2.0, 2.1, 4.1 and pretty much every other combination.  It supports up to 8 channels.  You select how many speakers are plugged in, and thus, how many channels are sent to the speakers, via the Windows sound settings.


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## Mussels (Sep 28, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> Already hooked up the tiny S/PDIF pass through cable my 250 came with, didn't make any difference. Still no HDMI device showing in the sound panel and as others have said (and I agree) it's probably not supposed to since it's technically passing audio through from the Realtk chip vs actually having built -in audio itself. So why would it even show as an audio device?
> 
> @FordGT and others talking about multi channel PCM,
> When I see 7.1 PCM being mentioned but not 5.1 PCM, it makes me a bit worried, because I did read one post from a user that said he saw a 7.1 PCM option but not 5.1, and he was using a 5.1 audio system.



its detected based on your receiver and its listed at its maximum setting. 

if 7.1PCM is supported, less channels are supported as well.


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## siovhan (Mar 10, 2013)

After like 10 hours of research I finally solved this, I installed media player classic (with the Windows Essential Codec pack) and ffdshow.  Then I opened a video that has 5.1 audio and right-clicked on the video screen, went to Filters, then ffdshow Audio Decoder, I checked the "Mixer" box, beside "Output speakers configuration" I selected "same as input", then back under the Mixer box I clicked "Input/Output", checked the "AC3" box, then clicked ok.


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## Mussels (Mar 10, 2013)

siovhan said:


> After like 10 hours of research I finally solved this, I installed media player classic (with the Windows Essential Codec pack) and ffdshow.  Then I opened a video that has 5.1 audio and right-clicked on the video screen, went to Filters, then ffdshow Audio Decoder, I checked the "Mixer" box, beside "Output speakers configuration" I selected "same as input", then back under the Mixer box I clicked "Input/Output", checked the "AC3" box, then clicked ok.



thats setting AC3 passthrough (which varies depending on your player/codecs), but that will work with any digital output (optical/coax/hdmi)


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## nt300 (Mar 10, 2013)

m1dg3t said:


> HDMI is shit. Get over it. Cut your losses
> 
> The "new" 3 Stooges wont even get a 2nd glimpse from me, saw a couple previews and just shook my head. I grew up with the Stooges, shit my dad even saw them perform live back in the day! I wouldn't want to sully those memories


Don't blame the actors, but the writers which were approved by the Mow Haward's son. You know Hollywood and how hey like taking what's good and playing around with it for theer liking. But me I kind of liked the new version and hope they continue to make more. They had to adjust the film nd style for 2013, because of the gen.


Frag Maniac said:


> Already hooked up the tiny S/PDIF pass through cable my 250 came with, didn't make any difference. Still no HDMI device showing in the sound panel and as others have said (and I agree) it's probably not supposed to since it's technically passing audio through from the Realtk chip vs actually having built -in audio itself. So why would it even show as an audio device?
> 
> @FordGT and others talking about multi channel PCM,
> When I see 7.1 PCM being mentioned but not 5.1 PCM, it makes me a bit worried, because I did read one post from a user that said he saw a 7.1 PCM option but not 5.1, and he was using a 5.1 audio system.


Use HDMI from the gpu to your reciever. Install the realtek codec that is recommend for your gpu, then restart your PC. You will see ths in your Windows sound properties. Adjust how many channels are supported (test to make sure you hear the sound out of the speakers and increase the quality to studio audio) and if you want change name to AMD 5.1CH HD or what ever you like. Then go into realtek and make sure its set in thre too.


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## AsRock (Mar 10, 2013)

I use HDMI though a AV and when setup in windows right it automatically selects PCM Multi Channel.

It's never mattered made any issue's for me leaving the on-board enabled which i do as i use a mic though that card.You just have to make sure the ATI is selected for sound and that 5.1 has been all so selected and the receiver picks up the source.

And by doing so i can tell were the sounds are coming from to a near pin point.


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## Aquinus (Mar 10, 2013)

Frag Maniac said:


> HDMI is so much better for audio than optical it's ridiculous. The sound still won't be loss-less even if it IS PCM, since it's compressed on the game end, but at least the loss ends there.



A: HDMI is not better than optical for audio. It's not worse either. They're about the same because its a digital signal and the audio device doesn't impact the audio stream at this point for both HDMI, optical, or coax.

B: PCM doesn't imply lossy quality. In fact PCM ensures that the audio stream isn't compressed. It's when you start using Dolby this and DTS that where your audio starts getting compressed.

I was also under the (perhaps mistaken?) impression that to get anything over 2.0 output you need to use DTS, Dolby, or some form of a multi-channel multiplexed signal. I thought that raw 6-channel PCM was too much bandwidth for HDMI which is why anything beyond 2.0 requires DTS or Dolby, at least this is the case with my video card and digital audio devices.

Also what do you mean the audio is compressed on the game's end? You mean how the files are stored? You shouldn't worry about that because that won't change for any particular game or application any time soon.


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## Mussels (Mar 13, 2013)

Aquinus said:


> A: HDMI is not better than optical for audio. It's not worse either. They're about the same because its a digital signal and the audio device doesn't impact the audio stream at this point for both HDMI, optical, or coax.
> 
> B: PCM doesn't imply lossy quality. In fact PCM ensures that the audio stream isn't compressed. It's when you start using Dolby this and DTS that where your audio starts getting compressed.
> 
> ...




HDMI can do 5.1 uncompressed, probably 7.1 as well. remember that they keep upping the HDMI specs, so theres been improvements since it all first launched.


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