# AMD Passes On Catalyst 14.1 beta to the Press, Public Release Shortly



## btarunr (Feb 1, 2014)

After last minute hiccups, AMD managed to release Catalyst 14.1 beta to the press. The driver brings along the first release of Mantle, AMD's ambitious 3D graphics API to rival Direct3D and OpenGL. Installing the driver was less than straightforward. We couldn't just install the driver over our Catalyst 13.12 WHQL installation like we normally do. A driver cleanup and reinstalling did the trick. Catalyst 14.1 beta enables the 3D renderer option in Battlefield 4, which lets you choose between DirectX 11.1 and Mantle. 

Our first (subjective) impression, is that we couldn't tell the difference. Our Radeon R9 290 already offered frame-rates well above 60 FPS (1920 x 1080, Ultra, 4x MSAA), on Direct3D, and so we never really stood to gain anything that makes the game more playable than it already was. What could have been interesting, was to see how Mantle makes the lives of R9 270X owners better, who could see frame-rates drop below 60 FPS at our settings. According to a change-log of the driver posted by Guru3D, AMD hasn't optimized Mantle for any of the Graphics CoreNext (GCN) based GPUs other than Radeon R9 290 series, R9 260X, and A-Series "Kaveri" APUs.



 

 

 




We gave Battlefield 4 and the Catalyst 14.1 a quick spin. Our test bed included an AMD FX-8350 chip at stock frequencies, 8 GB of DCh DDR3-1333 memory, an AMD 990FX motherboard (ASUS M5A99FX-PRO R2.0, 2201 BIOS, UEFI mode); Windows 8.1 64-bit, and of course, a Radeon R9 290 (BIOS: 015.042.000.000.003747). The GPU is into high-end territory, but the rest of the bed is still what we'd like to call an "aspirational mainstream" build (one that's penny-pinching but shouldn't bottleneck high-end GPUs). Game settings included 1920 x 1080 pixels resolution, disabled V-Sync, "Ultra" preset, HBAO, and 4x MSAA. We used the "PerfOverlay.FrameFileLogEnable 1" console command to spit out CSV files with frame-times in ms, from which we drew average frame-times (time in ms taken to draw a frame), and derived frames per second. Switching between renderers requires game restarts.

The screenshots above are not from the testing session. In the first run, we chose the Direct3D renderer. Battlefield 4 takes advantage of DirectX 11.1 (feature-level 11.1) on the R9 290. We employed a 167-second play through the single-player campaign chapter "Fishing in Baku," with a constant save-point, where our heroes are fighting their way through hordes of enemies to reach their extraction point. We obtained an average frame-time of 16.26 ms, which works out to 61.5 fps. For Mantle, we overshot the 167-second mark, and played on for 184 seconds (we quit at the same point in in the game as our Direct3D run). The average frame-time was 14.45 ms, which works out to 69.2 fps. Overall, a 12.5 percent performance uplift. On a side-note, in the screenshots above, which we took merely to show you that the Mantle renderer is active, the game is doing 1280 x 720 pixels, and windowed. This is a CPU-limited scenario. The performance uplift is higher. 

Overall, Mantle is far from being termed vaporware. It works like gangbusters, and we couldn't visually tell the difference in game effects between it and Direct3D. Performance gains are tangible, and if AMD gets it to work like it should on mid-thru-performance segment GPUs such as the R9 270 series and R9 280 series; not to mention HD 7800 series and HD 7900 series, AMD owners could be in for a neat free performance upgrade, heck even lower-mainstream chips like the R7 260X and HD 7790 should turn from being 1080p-capable to 1080p-worthy. Mantle works to reduce the API-level overheads imposed on the rest of the system (the CPU, main memory, etc.), in processing graphics. The more CPU-limited the scenario, the better the performance uplift. AMD tells us that public release of Catalyst 14.1 beta should be posted on the company website shortly.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Cheeseball (Feb 1, 2014)

GIVE IT TO ME ARRGHHG#@!#!@^*#%*!%!*^#%!*^%#123#!@#(*&^UPTON


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## Fluffmeister (Feb 1, 2014)

Some nice tests here involving a 290X and GTX 780 Ghz using various processors:

http://pclab.pl/art55953-3.html

That 780 sure hates being CPU limited, Mantle could do it wonders.


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## Yellow&Nerdy? (Feb 1, 2014)

A bit disappointed over the limited GPUs that support Mantle thus far: seems like only GCN 1.1 GPUs are supported. Hopefully support for GCN 1.0 GPUs will soon follow.


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## btarunr (Feb 1, 2014)

Yellow&Nerdy? said:


> A bit disappointed over the limited GPUs that support Mantle thus far: seems like only GCN 1.1 GPUs are supported. Hopefully support for GCN 1.0 GPUs will soon follow.



DICE has a driver that gives them similar performance gains on an HD 7970. So a public release with optimizations for other GCN GPUs shouldn't be too far off.


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## tokyoduong (Feb 1, 2014)

Yellow&Nerdy? said:


> A bit disappointed over the limited GPUs that support Mantle thus far: seems like only GCN 1.1 GPUs are supported. Hopefully support for GCN 1.0 GPUs will soon follow.




Oh man, free stuff, so disappointing.

*Q: What hardware is supported with Mantle?*
A: At this time, the following Graphics Core Next-based products are supported:


AMD Radeon™ R9 Series graphics
AMD Radeon™ R7 Series graphics
AMD Radeon™ HD 7000 Series graphics
AMD Radeon™ HD 8000 Series graphics
2014 AMD A-Series APUs (“Kaveri”)


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## Yellow&Nerdy? (Feb 1, 2014)

btarunr said:


> DICE has a driver that gives them similar performance gains on an HD 7970. So a public release with optimizations for other GCN GPUs shouldn't be too far off.


That's one of the reasons I'm a bit confused about it... But I guess the driver doesn't run stably enough on GCN 1.0 GPUs yet for AMD to give it out to the public.


tokyoduong said:


> Oh man, free stuff, so disappointing.


I'm not complaining about Mantle itself; I'm excited to get it, that's why I can hardly wait to give it a go.


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## TheGuruStud (Feb 1, 2014)

Fluffmeister said:


> Some nice tests here involving a 290X and GTX 780 Ghz using various processors:
> 
> http://pclab.pl/art55953-3.html
> 
> That 780 sure hates being CPU limited, Mantle could do it wonders.



Ugh, PClab is garbage. They'll show a 780 beating a 290(X) in D3D while every other reviewer shows the 780 being easily surpassed

This is the same crap that was posted in the anand thread about mantle drivers (people were arguing about multithreaded driver support from AMD and pclab benchmarks were posted for a 780 that owned everything....only for real results to be posted in response showing it to be a little faster than a 7970, which is correct).


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## tokyoduong (Feb 1, 2014)

Yellow&Nerdy? said:


> That's one of the reasons I'm a bit confused about it... But I guess the driver doesn't run stably enough on GCN 1.0 GPUs yet for AMD to give it out to the public.
> 
> I'm not complaining about Mantle itself; I'm excited to get it, that's why I can hardly wait to give it a go.



If your system runs the game fine right now, then i wouldn't worry about it. There will be glitches you will encounter. What you should really look forward to is the future games. EA is not pushing Mantle on BF4 for BF4. They are pushing Mantle for their Frostbite engine. It sounds like most of their AAA titles in the future will utilize Frostbite 3. Mantle support for BF4 sounds more like a trial run for them. 

I'm waiting to see how this will affect Tom Clancy's Division. That game already look awesome. If I can get high/ultra settings on my lowly 7850, that would be awesome. I miss the old 8800GTX days where it lasted for years instead of just 1.


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## Eroticus (Feb 1, 2014)

Thanks ! waiting to files


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## VulkanBros (Feb 1, 2014)

Hmm - I guess I´ll have to ditch my GTX 770 for a R290X.......
Oh well - lets see some reviews and tests first


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## Divide Overflow (Feb 1, 2014)

btarunr said:


> Overall, Mantle is far from being termed vaporware. It works like gangbusters, and we couldn't visually tell the difference in game effects between it and Direct3D. Performance gains are tangible...


Exciting news!   Thanks for the quick feedback!!


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## m0nt3 (Feb 1, 2014)

I want to see minimum framerates. Especially some of the maps that have bad drops into the 30's fps(paracel storm at B, Hainan Resort at C are the biggest problem areas) and that is regardless of quality/resolution settings.


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## west7 (Feb 1, 2014)

i've been waiting for TPU nembers thank you sir


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## progste (Feb 1, 2014)

I wonder how mantle affects frame stability other than raw fps, can't wait to see more about this tech


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## bogami (Feb 1, 2014)

Idea is not new and has long been known !since the beginning of the development and use dual-core processors ! we want to use their full potential .That the engines coming Finally, I will say.
Only the rights are turning the big bucks  and stick to another outdated technology they in every way they wish to sell ! 
Finally, I will say for a few sentences of software supportwhich is becoming virtually obligatory for emerging technologies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## progste (Feb 1, 2014)

bogami said:


> Idea is not new and has long been known !since the beginning of the development and use dual-core processors ! we want to use their full potential .That the engines coming Finally, I will say.
> Only the rights are turning the big bucks  and stick to another outdated technology they in every way they wish to sell !
> Finally, I will say for a few sentences of software supportwhich is becoming virtually obligatory for emerging technologies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


google translate doesn't work that well, does it?


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## HumanSmoke (Feb 1, 2014)

TheGuruStud said:


> Ugh, PClab is garbage. They'll show a 780 beating a 290(X) in D3D while every other reviewer shows the 780 being easily surpassed


Keep calm.....deep breaths....
PCLabs is using a GTX 780 GHz Edition - usually a stand-in for the 780 Ti where that card isn't available (performance being roughly equal). As you can see, the 1019 base/1072 boost frequencies indicate it isn't your usual run of the mill 780






[Source]



TheGuruStud said:


> This is the same crap that was posted in the anand thread about mantle drivers (people were arguing about multithreaded driver support from AMD and pclab benchmarks were posted for a 780 that owned everything....only for real results to be posted in response showing it to be a little faster than a 7970, which is correct).


Yes, it's clearly a giant conspiracy. You've done well uncovering it.


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## Kovoet (Feb 1, 2014)

Cannot wait to try this on my 7970's


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## aussiebear (Feb 1, 2014)

This linked article shows why the driver has been delayed...
=> http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_mantle_preview,1.html



> *Knows issues with the current Mantle driver build:*
> 
> Now I am not too interested in the issues as they will be solved and this is a Beta driver, but it does tell the current state of what current product are actually supported, have a peek.
> 
> ...


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## Rottenapple (Feb 1, 2014)

I really wish Arma 3 adopt Mantle as it is the most cpu limited game I've played.


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## morphy (Feb 1, 2014)

hmm this might help me since I'm still on i7-920.

Only one big problem -  I'm on Nvidia card


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## broken pixel (Feb 1, 2014)

Driver leak please, it has been before. I want to test my 3930k with 2x 290x.


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## kn00tcn (Feb 1, 2014)

tokyoduong said:


> I'm waiting to see how this will affect Tom Clancy's Division. That game already look awesome. If I can get high/ultra settings on my lowly 7850, that would be awesome. I miss the old 8800GTX days where it lasted for years instead of just 1.



strange choice of numbers, did you mean 8800gt? but most people with that were on lower resolutions, i cant imagine what they had to deal with at 1080p if a 4850 was faster (& i had a 4870x2 where a lot of games werent hitting 60 on a single 4870 at 1080p/1200p)

8800gtx was a $600+ high end card, a 7850 is not a $600 high end card, a 7970 would be the right comparison, but both of these 7 series are going strong for 2 years onward

everything lasts as long as you want it, it's still few games that want to cram a ton of eye candy in them, depending on the resolution you're trying to hit of course

only big paradigm shifts seem to be the brick walls, like when games started getting very shader heavy (i've seen crysis on a 7900gs, it ran 2fps compared to 20+ on an 8800gt at the same settings), or when dx9b games stopped appearing which blocked x800 & 9800 users


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## mastrdrver (Feb 1, 2014)

Basically, the more CPU limited the your setup is, the greater the improvement Mantle will make over DX.

I'd like to see something like an old Athlon x2 paired with a R9 xxx. Would be interesting.


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## Thefumigator (Feb 1, 2014)

mastrdrver said:


> Basically, the more CPU limited the your setup is, the greater the improvement Mantle will make over DX.
> 
> I'd like to see something like an old Athlon x2 paired with a R9 xxx. Would be interesting.



Exactly, I would add that affordable gaming laptops with Kaveri APUs will be interesting to see too.


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## GC_PaNzerFIN (Feb 2, 2014)

Ran lots of BF4 Multiplayer tests in Siege of Shanghai 64 players today D3D11 vs Mantle.

@ 1440p, ultra settings:

Mantle 7.3 % faster than DirectX11 on average. Mantle has lower minimum fps due to quite rare random high latency frames.

@ 1440p, low settings

Mantle 16.5 % faster than DirectX11 on average. Mantle has lower minimum fps due to quite rare random high latency frames.

Test setup:

3930K @ 4.2GHz
Asus Rampage IV Formula
32GB 2133MHz CL9 ram
AMD R9 290X @ stock "uber"
Samsung 840 Pro 256GB
1000W PSU

Win 8.1
Cat 14.1 Beta

Some stability problems ? were present. Crashing randomly with Mantle API. But not bad for first try.


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## broken pixel (Feb 2, 2014)

Link to the driver? Or is it secret still?


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## happita (Feb 2, 2014)

btarunr said:


> AMD tells us that public release of Catalyst 14.1 beta should be posted on the company website shortly.


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## GC_PaNzerFIN (Feb 2, 2014)

broken pixel said:


> Link to the driver? Or is it secret still?



Sorry, still confidential. 

Besides, Press driver is FAR from standard driver installer. Let the guys at AMD fix it for a bit more.


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## NinkobEi (Feb 2, 2014)

Has AMD announced if it will add support for 6xxx cards? And will Mantle be linux compatible? (looking at you, SteamOS)


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## slevinsok (Feb 2, 2014)

14.1 beta driver will be release monday


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## slevinsok (Feb 2, 2014)

NinkobEi said:


> Has AMD announced if it will add support for 6xxx cards? And will Mantle be linux compatible? (looking at you, SteamOS)



no your out of luck .....and who the hell still uses the 6xxx series lol


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## NinkobEi (Feb 2, 2014)

slevinsok said:


> no your out of luck .....and who the hell still uses the 6xxx series lol


Really? It runs all the games I play just fine so I havent had a need to upgrade it. No need to get all high and mighty-elite on your 2nd post.


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## Divide Overflow (Feb 2, 2014)




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## broken pixel (Feb 2, 2014)

GC_PaNzerFIN said:


> Sorry, still confidential.
> 
> Besides, Press driver is FAR from standard driver installer. Let the guys at AMD fix it for a bit more.



I think us amature pc builders that started computing on VIC 20s can handle it, lol! PM me the uploaded driver my PC and I will tell not a soul. X- ♡


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## GC_PaNzerFIN (Feb 2, 2014)

broken pixel said:


> I think us amature pc builders that started computing on VIC 20s can handle it, lol! PM me the uploaded driver my PC and I will tell not a soul. X- ♡


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## Fluffmeister (Feb 2, 2014)

Sorry chaps, the paid press get priority over their paying customers.


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## broken pixel (Feb 2, 2014)

http://www.computerbase.de/downloads/treiber/grafik/amd-catalyst-komplettpaket/

sssssshhh


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## Fluffmeister (Feb 2, 2014)

Dear God! Give us real results already!


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## btarunr (Feb 2, 2014)

Fluffmeister said:


> Sorry chaps, the paid press get priority over their paying customers.








Now to count my fat roll of Benjamins.


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## DEATH-NZ (Feb 2, 2014)

im stoked they have this mantle on the way...BUT have AMD actually worked on this 'black screen' issue that is screwing with a high pecentage of their card owners ??   i have a asus 290x 4gb and it is getting annoying.   I cant find out anywhere if a fix is in this new driver.    i hope so...if its 3 months between drivers thats a long wait to actually enjoy my new card without this annoying issue.


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## GC_PaNzerFIN (Feb 2, 2014)

I don't know who gets paid but I sincerely doubt it is me because there is a nice negative number related to R9 290X in my bank account.


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## btarunr (Feb 2, 2014)

DEATH-NZ said:


> im stoked they have this mantle on the way...BUT have AMD actually worked on this 'black screen' issue that is screwing with a high pecentage of their card owners ??



Is black-screen issue the one in which your screen blacks out, and audio appears to drag out? If so, no. My card black-screened on me once today (when playing with Mantle).

Black screen issue is caused by AMD not optimizing the GPU to timings of Elpida-made memory chips. There could be a BIOS update in the works. My 042 BIOS reduced black-screens greatly, but not eliminated the issue. You can find it in our BIOS DB.


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## Fluffmeister (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm just trying to get over being virtually hugged.


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## GC_PaNzerFIN (Feb 2, 2014)

btarunr said:


> Is black-screen issue the one in which your screen blacks out, and audio appears to drag out? If so, no. My card black-screened on me once today (when playing with Mantle).
> 
> Black screen issue is caused by AMD not optimizing the GPU to timings of Elpida-made memory chips. I'm hearing that they're testing a BIOS update for reference boards and that they're having good results. My 042 BIOS reduced black-screens greatly, but not eliminated the issue. You can find it in our BIOS DB.



Interesting... I have few Black Screenin AMD cards here. One of them is Engineering Sample R7 260X reference board. Elpidas I presume.


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## DEATH-NZ (Feb 2, 2014)

Mine black screened a few times during game....but of late it only does it when I log into Windows.   It will let me click the user then when loading windows just black screens....I can only use safe mode...and today it's been very bad...12 times in a row.  I spend a grand on this card 4 weeks ago and feel a bit ripped at the moment.


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## broken pixel (Feb 2, 2014)

14.1 beta 1.6
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=386270

No registration req.

Thanks asder00


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## m0nt3 (Feb 2, 2014)

Thanks Broken Pixle it works. All the low fps I would get in like sige of shanghai into the 30's gone, rarely below 70. gives some life to my Phenom II X6 CPU useage is high instead of 60-70 i hang around 80-85.


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## broken pixel (Feb 2, 2014)

slevinsok said:


> 14.1 beta driver will be release monday



They lied to you, lol.


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## broken pixel (Feb 2, 2014)

m0nt3 said:


> Thanks Broken Pixle it works. All the low fps I would get in like sige of shanghai into the 30's gone, rarely below 70. gives some life to my Phenom II X6 CPU useage is high instead of 60-70 i hang around 80-85.



Awesome man! That is good news.


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## ensabrenoir (Feb 2, 2014)

slevinsok said:


> no your out of luck .....and who the hell still uses the 6xxx series lol



......my wife still uses a 6870.......for publisher


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## el etro (Feb 2, 2014)

m0nt3 said:


> I want to see minimum framerates. Especially some of the maps that have bad drops into the 30's fps(paracel storm at B, Hainan Resort at C are the biggest problem areas) and that is regardless of quality/resolution settings.



 Mantle helps the CPU behavior in the game engine in every way.


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## m0nt3 (Feb 2, 2014)

Official Drivers 

http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/latest-catalyst-windows-beta.aspx


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## GC_PaNzerFIN (Feb 2, 2014)

I did not observer much change in minimum fps if you exclude the odd glitched frames from mantle.


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## broken pixel (Feb 2, 2014)

m0nt3 said:


> Official Drivers
> 
> http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/latest-catalyst-windows-beta.aspx



Are these different than the 14.1 beta 1.6 driver that was released earlier?

Edit: Yup the same.


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## Suka (Feb 2, 2014)

m0nt3 said:


> Thanks Broken Pixle it works. All the low fps I would get in like sige of shanghai into the 30's gone, rarely below 70. gives some life to my Phenom II X6 CPU useage is high instead of 60-70 i hang around 80-85.


You gave me hope man though i have a 5800 series


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## m0nt3 (Feb 2, 2014)

It plays like a new game. There is an ocasional pause/stutter. Once the kinks are worked out it will be amazing (which it already is) I feel you suka, i bought an R9 290 on release day to replace my 6950 because it could barely handle it. I would have needed a new CPU but I knew mantle was coming out so I held off, glad I did!


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## Relayer (Feb 2, 2014)

aussiebear said:


> This linked article shows why the driver has been delayed...
> => http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_mantle_preview,1.html



Well, considering the game patch was released one day prior and the drivers were going to be released the same time but were delayed due to an install bug, I don't know if we can know who to point the finger at. If the game patch came out the end of Dec. and the drivers weren't released for a month, then it would be pretty obvious. The game patch was delayed though as well. So, who knows why?


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## RejZoR (Feb 2, 2014)

Every driver gives me 20% boost, even if it doesn't support my card or no boosts were listed for it. You know, it's like red brake calipers on cars. They give you instant 15 HP no matter what.  Installing the drivers on my system right now...


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## GreiverBlade (Feb 2, 2014)

wasn't it  only 4 chips at launch?

i did just read that on the beta page.

"

AMD Mantle Beta driver is currently supported on:
AMD Radeon™ R9 Series GPUs (presumably the whole 2xx so?)
AMD Radeon™ R7 Series GPUs
*AMD Radeon™ HD 7000 Series GPUs*
AMD Radeon™ HD 8000 Series GPUs
AMD A10-7000 Series and AMD A8-7000 Series APUs

For additional details please see the AMD Mantle Technology FAQ on amd.com"


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## RejZoR (Feb 2, 2014)

Strange, Comodo jumped because the package was not recognized. Checked the file and is actually not signed by AMD. That's a bit weird. But since it's from their page, fine...


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## Suka (Feb 2, 2014)

m0nt3 said:


> It plays like a new game. There is an ocasional pause/stutter. Once the kinks are worked out it will be amazing (which it already is) I feel you suka, i bought an R9 290 on release day to replace my 6950 because it could barely handle it. I would have needed a new CPU but I knew mantle was coming out so I held off, glad I did!


Am getting my 1090t soon but am not upgrading my 5870. I hope multi-threaded games will keep coming to ensure longevity of the 1090t. For now no Mantle for me


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## mastrdrver (Feb 2, 2014)

Guru3d did a little review of Mantle (link). Several different setups show very large gains to be had when BF4 is CPU limited. Example would be a ~56% increase when using a10 7850k with 290x with Medium settings at either 720p or 1080p resolutions. Yes, it's not normal settings you would use with that setup, but he used it to show what's possible.

Like I said earlier, it would be interesting to see this done with an old Athlon X2 and even something like a 7870.


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## west7 (Feb 2, 2014)

Rottenapple said:


> I really wish Arma 3 adopt Mantle as it is the most cpu limited game I've played.


 try to play total war games i had an i3 with 7950 and i was stuck with 20fps upgraded to i5 now i'm getting 30fps so a mantle will be nice


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