# [VR-Zone]DirectX 11 screens...



## InnocentCriminal (Nov 18, 2008)

... I'm sceptical at the best of times so I'm calling BS on these screens, but I thought it might bring up a decent debate. 



























Not out of the realms of possiblity, but these pictures, I highly doubt these are screens for a DX11 demo (with some clever dick behind the keyboard I wouldn't be surprised if this sort of thing could be done in DX10.1 or even 9) - I'd like to be proven wrong though. 

Source.


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## Nick89 (Nov 18, 2008)

LOL this is a joke right?


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## DaC (Nov 18, 2008)

Assuming FSX 10 ss hoax..... this is totally BS


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## Binge (Nov 18, 2008)

Fake, I've seen these pictures somewhere else, and they are related to ray tracing.  I remember the industry/microsoft deciding DX11 wasn't going to go Ray Tracing~ so yeah I call hoax.


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## DaMulta (Nov 18, 2008)

I don't call it BS.


look when Shader 2.0 was around total thread length was 96. Then when Shader 3.0 came out it went to 64000 maximum length That's a big deal correct?

Well it would be buy only 2 games really pushed the limit then. FEAR a 2.0 game, and Far Cry a 3.0 game. Both look about the same, because the thread length was pushed more.

The average game then had 19-25 length threads the majority of the time.

Now we have sharder 4.0 and it is supposed to have no limit. Does that mean that they will use that?


As you can still see today only a few games really push the limit. When we should be seeing games like Futermark is showing off!!!!

Developers simply are catching a little bit at a time when we are doing all this upgrading. If they sat down and just focused on something cool based on one GPU they could pull some amazing things off. Just like they do on the 360......


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## r9 (Nov 18, 2008)

Who gives a f***k. Like DX 10 bullshit the best looking game is DX9 Crysis.
The whole point of DX10 was its efficiency over DX9 but how come all games works slower at DX10 mode.


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## DaMulta (Nov 18, 2008)

r9 said:


> Who gives a f***k. Like DX 10 bullshit the best looking game is DX9 Crysis.
> The whole point of DX10 was its efficiency over DX9 but how come all games works slower at DX10 mode.



bad coding


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## InnocentCriminal (Nov 18, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> I don't call it BS.
> 
> 
> look when Shader 2.0 was around total thread length was 96. Then when Shader 3.0 came out it went to 64000 maximum length That's a big deal correct?
> ...



Arrrh someone with an objective retort. Nice one dude! I'm only calling BS on these images being officially DX11 screens. I'm not saying DX11 won't look similar or have the same prowess, just look at Crysis in DX9 like r9 said.

You make a valid point though.


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## iStink (Nov 18, 2008)

i say bs.  We aren't even near the processing power it would take to generate such random scenes.


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## DaMulta (Nov 19, 2008)

iStink said:


> i say bs.  We aren't even near the processing power it would take to generate such random scenes.



We are closer than you think we are.....


Everything today is coded horrible.

Just to use things you have to do this


> A first-generation programming language is a machine-level programming language.





> Second-generation programming language is a generational way to categorize assembly languages. The term was coined to provide a distinction from higher level third-generation programming languages (3GL) such as COBOL and earlier machine code languages. Second-generation programming languages have the following properties:
> 
> * The code can be read and written by a programmer. To run on a computer it must be converted into a machine readable form, a process called assembly.
> * The language is specific to a particular processor family and environment.






> A third-generation language (3GL) is a refinement of a second generation programming language. Where as a second generation language is more aimed to fix logical structure to the language, a third generation language aims to refine the usability of the language in such a way to make it more user friendly. This could mean restructuring categories of possible functions to make it more efficient, condensing the overall bulk of code via classes (eg. Visual Basic). In a Nutshell, a third generation language benefits over a second by having more refinement on the usability of the language itself from the perspective of the user.





> A fourth-generation programming language (1970s-1990) (abbreviated 4GL) is a programming language or programming environment designed with a specific purpose in mind, such as the development of commercial business software[1]. In the evolution of computing, the 4GL followed the 3GL in an upward trend toward higher abstraction and statement power. The 4GL was followed by efforts to define and use a 5GL.
> 
> The natural-language, block-structured mode of the third-generation programming languages improved the process of software development. However, 3GL development methods can be slow and error-prone. It became clear that some applications could be developed more rapidly by adding a higher-level programming language and methodology which would generate the equivalent of very complicated 3GL instructions with fewer errors. In some senses, software engineering arose to handle 3GL development. 4GL and 5GL projects are more oriented toward problem solving and systems engineering.
> 
> ...





> A fifth-generation programming language (abbreviated 5GL) is a programming language based around solving problems using constraints given to the program, rather than using an algorithm written by a programmer. Most constraint-based and logic programming languages and some declarative languages are fifth-generation languages.
> 
> While fourth-generation programming languages are designed to build specific programs, fifth-generation languages are designed to make the computer solve the problem for you. This way, the programmer only needs to worry about what problems need to be solved and what conditions need to be met, without worrying about how to implement a routine or algorithm to solve them. Fifth-generation languages are used mainly in artificial intelligence research. Prolog, OPS5, and Mercury are the best known fifth-generation languages.
> 
> These types of languages were also built upon Lisp, many originating on the Lisp machine. ICAD is a good example. Then, there are many frame languages, such as KL-ONE.





> Operating modes
> 
> [edit] Real mode
> 
> ...





So do you get it?



There is a reason for our programs installing Gigs of information. It is because we build on top of another, and another, and another. We always reuse what there was before. We have never went back and did it all over again.

So you write the 101010101010 code
Then you right the ABCDEFG code
Then you right the code that can take ABCD and make new programs.
Then you take that new program and you build on this
It goes on
and 
on
and
on
and
on

Each time it has to talk all the way down to 01010101011


Today if we dropped all our codes and went back to 010101010 it would be almost imposable to catch up to where we are. At the same time if we did, we would not use as much space, and we would not need the house power that we use to day to do the things that we do today.

Install windows 95 or nt on a 3Ghz Quad and just watch how fast it starts.

That is because there is less code to talk all the way down too 01010101011.


Video cards should have a driver written on the card, and when you kick in a game it should load the whole thing into ram. Then handle it all in assemble code. Then you would have the images above that you see.


All we do today, could of been done on computers 20 years ago. It just took longer to code than it does now, because most of the train tack has already been laid.


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## dark2099 (Nov 19, 2008)

I personally won't state my opinion of if I think they are real or not, but some looks amazing, and others look doable in DX10.  Personally I'll just wait for now.  Oh, and DaMulta, I think that is the longest post I've seen.


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## Wile E (Nov 19, 2008)

dark2099 said:


> I personally won't state my opinion of if I think they are real or not, but some looks amazing, and others look doable in DX10.  Personally I'll just wait for now.  Oh, and DaMulta, I think that is the longest post I've seen.



If that's the longest post you've seen, you clearly weren't around for the APK days. lol.

At any rate, I think these screens are fake.


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## Solaris17 (Nov 19, 2008)

i think they could be real but maybe some rendered DX11 images at best imo...but i hold hope those are operating renderes man i hope DX11 looks like that TEHHHHH SEEXXXX


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## DaMulta (Nov 19, 2008)

Clearly you guys have not seen real tech demos where they push shit to the limit of what it can really do.
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1066650&postcount=5

I hope one of these days, you guys get to sit in front of a terminal too a supercomputer. Then run one of their demos that shows you what the supercomputer can render or not render for you.


In the earily 90s I see demos that would be judged against our best games to day. That was on a SGi computer that took the whole room up and only ran at 80Mhz.

They used to read computers in mips(million instructions per second). I wish they still did today because Ghz and Mhz is a stupid way to rate computer parts.


If I can send 10000000million things in 1Ghz and you can only send 5000 thousand things in 1Ghz. 

Which one if faster?

Then tell me why we rate them in speed, and why we don't judge them on what they can do in a set amount of time.


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## James1991 (Nov 19, 2008)

All i will say is if the first and last ones are real then stop making games that look like S**T and use the full potential of DirectX


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## Wile E (Nov 19, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> Clearly you guys have not seen real tech demos where they push shit to the limit of what it can really do.
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1066650&postcount=5
> 
> I hope one of these days, you guys get to sit in front of a terminal too a supercomputer. Then run one of their demos that shows you what the supercomputer can render or not render for you.
> ...


Most of us know what tech demos are. We are claiming this is not one of them.


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## Solaris17 (Nov 19, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> Clearly you guys have not seen real tech demos where they push shit to the limit of what it can really do.
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1066650&postcount=5
> 
> I hope one of these days, you guys get to sit in front of a terminal too a supercomputer. Then run one of their demos that shows you what the supercomputer can render or not render for you.
> ...





i think your doubting alot of people and too much....for example other than the fact its by some random japanese web site i dont trust even if it is DX11 which imo is very probably you and i both know it will be a few years before our rigs can do it....i wouldnt go calling "i wish you guys" iv been inside unix farms were they use CPU clusters to render images and movies 1 frame at a time each frame taking hours because of how incredably precise it is and the images beautiful their is no doubt nor are people as stupid as you MAY think (not saying you think anyone is stupid) im just saying be a little more carefull i mean i took no offense but their are people like me that have seen this shit right up close others that have and do work at these places. and we have seen know and worked on thse things first hand im not doubting todays tech im doubting user end because some of that kind of stuff is locked so tight we wont see it in our TT armors or hack boxes for years to come.


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## DaMulta (Nov 19, 2008)

Wile E said:


> Most of us know what tech demos are. We are claiming this is not one of them.



I know that, but they could render those things.


The house alone is something they have been doing for years with Cad cards.


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## DaMulta (Nov 19, 2008)

Solaris17 said:


> i think your doubting alot of people and too much....for example other than the fact its by some random japanese web site i dont trust even if it is DX11 which imo is very probably you and i both know it will be a few years before our rigs can do it....i wouldnt go calling "i wish you guys" iv been inside unix farms were they use CPU clusters to render images and movies 1 frame at a time each frame taking hours because of how incredably precise it is and the images beautiful their is no doubt nor are people as stupid as you MAY think (not saying you think anyone is stupid) im just saying be a little more carefull i mean i took no offense but their are people like me that have seen this shit right up close others that have and do work at these places. and we have seen know and worked on thse things first hand im not doubting todays tech im doubting user end because some of that kind of stuff is locked so tight we wont see it in our TT armors or hack boxes for years to come.



I do doubt a lot, and there is a TON that I have no understanding of.

Most people do not know how things work on a basic level tho......that's true.

Sorry if I seem to be in a bad mood...........long long long day.


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## Wile E (Nov 19, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> I know that, but they could render those things.
> 
> 
> The house alone is something they have been doing for years with Cad cards.



Oh, I know. If it weren't possible to render, we wouldn't be seeing the images. The images alone prove it's possible for these to be rendered. i just don't happen to believe these are DX11 renders. I bet they are 3DsMax or similar.


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## Solaris17 (Nov 19, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> I do doubt a lot, and there is a TON that I have no understanding of.
> 
> Most people do not know how things work on a basic level tho......that's true.
> 
> Sorry if I seem to be in a bad mood...........long long long day.



i know dude and i understand i have a migrane im almost out of ciggs and my room is hot but i think before you diss you should try to give some credit i mean if you whanna talk sophisticated F intel and AMD sparcs are were its at i have an old box at my cousins house thats running solaris 10 8 cores 4 threads per core 32 logical threads 1Ghz operating frequncy its a niagra based Ultra sparc and that rig would destroy mainstream CPU's if normal OS's supported it..


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## DaMulta (Nov 19, 2008)

Solaris17 said:


> i know dude and i understand i have a migrane im almost out of ciggs and my room is hot but i think before you diss you should try to give some credit i mean if you whanna talk sophisticated F intel and AMD sparcs are were its at i have an old box at my cousins house thats running solaris 10 8 cores 4 threads per core 32 logical threads 1Ghz operating frequncy its a niagra based Ultra sparc and that rig would destroy mainstream CPU's if normal OS's supported it..



I have been awake for two days now lol

and went to work both days


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## Solaris17 (Nov 19, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> I have been awake for two days now lol
> 
> and went to work both days



ugh nthats rough you need fukitol good stuff

now go look at the "how you use your os" thread i want to know what you think of my multi tasking beacause i live through TPu's replies to me like a highschooler craving myspace.


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## erocker (Nov 19, 2008)

Real.  These images were from Micosofts DX11 demo from a month or two ago. XNA Gamefest if I'm not mistaken.


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## Wile E (Nov 19, 2008)

erocker said:


> Real.  These images were from Micosofts DX11 demo from a month or two ago.



I still say they weren't rendered in DX11. I bet they are just concept renders. I remember the DX10 "renders" they posted before it released. Those renders never made it in a tech demo for some reason. Hmmmmmm.


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## DaMulta (Nov 19, 2008)

erocker said:


> Real.  These images were from Micosofts DX11 demo from a month or two ago.





Love it then


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## DaMulta (Nov 19, 2008)

Wile E said:


> I still say they weren't rendered in DX11. I bet they are just concept renders. I remember the DX10 "renders" they posted before it released. Those renders never made it in a tech demo for some reason. Hmmmmmm.



Even if it takes 10 mins for every frame to render, and then play it back. It still rendered them IMO.


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## erocker (Nov 19, 2008)

Wile E said:


> I still say they weren't rendered in DX11. I bet they are just concept renders. I remember the DX10 "renders" they posted before it released. Those renders never made it in a tech demo for some reason. Hmmmmmm.



Very true!


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## imperialreign (Nov 19, 2008)

r9 said:


> Who gives a f***k. Like DX 10 bullshit the best looking game is DX9 Crysis.
> The whole point of DX10 was its efficiency over DX9 but how come all games works slower at DX10 mode.
> 
> 
> ...




agreed - although, IIRC, DX10.1 was supposed to address the eff-up with DX10 - supposedly more efficient or otherwise.  I can't say from experience as to if it's truly faster or not, as I don't run DX10 (prob should, I've got the damn hardware to do so )


As to the images, the first one I don't really believe to be real - visually that's way far and above DX10, IMO . . . the second image - possibly, it's a little hard to say, but I'd think DX10 could easily pull that off . . . same with the third.

Definitely DX10 on the 4th - something about that image just looks way off to me . . . I think it has to do with the shadows, and with the color of the grass and plants . . .


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## DaMulta (Nov 19, 2008)

Shaders are unlimited now. 


> Shader Model 4.0, which included full support for integers and bitwise operators among other features





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct3D#Direct3D_11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX


> A major update to DirectX API, DirectX 10 ships with and is only available with Windows Vista; previous versions of Windows such as Windows XP are not able to officially run DirectX 10-exclusive applications.[4]There are unofficial ports of DirectX 10 to XP, however[5]. Changes for DirectX 10 were extensive.
> 
> Many former parts of DirectX API were deprecated in the latest DirectX SDK and will be preserved for compatibility only: DirectInput was deprecated in favor of XInput, DirectSound was deprecated in favor of XACT and lost support for hardware accelerated audio, since Vista audio stack renders sound in software on the CPU. The DirectPlay DPLAY.DLL was also removed and was replaced with dplayx.dll; games that rely on this DLL must duplicate it and rename it to dplay.dll.
> 
> ...





> New featuresirect3D 10
> 
> * Fixed pipelines[13] are being done away with in favor of fully programmable pipelines (often referred to as unified pipeline architecture), which can be programmed to emulate the same.
> * New state object to enable (mostly) the CPU to change states efficiently.
> ...





> Direct3D 10.1
> Direct3D 10.1 sets a few more image quality standards for graphics vendors, and gives developers more control over image quality.[15] [16] Features include bigger control over antialiasing (both multisampling and supersampling with per sample shading and application control over sample position) and more flexibilities to some of the existing features (cubemap arrays and independent blending modes). Direct3D 10.1 level hardware must support the following features:
> 
> * Mandatory 32-bit floating point filtering.
> ...





> A tessellation or tiling of the plane is a collection of plane figures that fills the plane with no overlaps and no gaps. One may also speak of tessellations of the parts of the plane or of other surfaces. Generalizations to higher dimensions are also possible. Tessellations frequently appeared in the art of M. C. Escher. Tessellations are seen throughout art history, from ancient architecture to modern art.
> 
> In Latin, tessella was a small cubical piece of clay, stone or glass used to make mosaics.[1] The word "tessella" means "small square" (from "tessera", square, which in its turn is from the Greek word for "four"). It corresponds with the everyday term tiling which refers to applications of tessellation, often made of glazed clay.








A tessellated plane seen in street pavement.
and more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tessellation

    *   Down-level hardware and operating system support
    * Improved multithreaded device
    * New hardware stages for tessellation
    * Improved texture compression
    * Shader Model 5.0
    * Compute shader
    * Additional features

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3759/sponsored_feature_introducing_.php?print=1


> Down-Level Hardware and Operating System Support
> 
> Windows Vista and DirectX 10 were engineered to improve the underlying Windows Display Driver Model (WDDM) and create significant opportunities for driver performance improvement. In addition, the DirectX 10 API was designed to be cleaner and simpler, with the near full removal of capability bits, thereby making client code easier to write and removing development pain. DirectX 11 brings enough new features to be a full version update, however, since it builds upon and extends DirectX 10. Anyone familiar with DirectX 10 and 10.1 will feel immediately at home with DirectX 11. With DirectX 11, it is possible for developers to target hardware feature levels 10, 10.1, and 11 by using a single set of functions.
> 
> ...




They could render everyone of those pics with the right code. IMO


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## JC316 (Nov 19, 2008)

Wile E said:


> I still say they weren't rendered in DX11. I bet they are just concept renders. I remember the DX10 "renders" they posted before it released. Those renders never made it in a tech demo for some reason. Hmmmmmm.



Agreed. The DX10 stuff looked real, funny that Crysis, Bioshock and the rest don't look quite so real. I would love to see games look like that, but I doubt that DX11 will do it.


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## niko084 (Nov 19, 2008)

I could believe it, what its capable of in solid frame is different from fast action.
Also yes you are right, dx10 could do the same thing, but in a less efficient way.


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## Wile E (Nov 19, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> Shaders are unlimited now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


D, stop it already. lol. We are not saying it can never be done. We are saying that these pics are not DX11 renders.


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## DaMulta (Nov 19, 2008)

Hey now, that was good information for me to even to go back over

E done said they were real too hahaha U already lost the game


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## Wile E (Nov 19, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> Hey now, that was good information for me to even to go back over
> 
> E done said they were real too hahaha U already lost the game



No, I didn't. They were part of a DX11 press release. That does not mean they were rendered with DX11. We had similar slides with DX10, yet nothing like that was ever rendered in DX10, including tech demos.

I would bet money these were rendered in 3Dsmax or similar, just to show what they think DX11 will be able to do.


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## DaMulta (Nov 19, 2008)

Ok point to me those pics you are talking about, and then we will really( I will ) try and find those tech demos........



They were part of a DX11 press release. That does not mean they were rendered with DX11.

That does not makes any sense lol....


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## Solaris17 (Nov 19, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> Ok point to me those pics you are talking about, and then we will really( I will ) try and find those tech demos........
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you should find the demos id like to watch them the movment and shadow manipulation means alot ot me.


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## Wile E (Nov 19, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> Ok point to me those pics you are talking about, and then we will really( I will ) try and find those tech demos........
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It makes perfect sense. Stop and think about it for a minute D. All they showed were these pictures already completed. They did not show them being rendered. It was part of a series of slides on what DX11 should be capable of. They do this with every major DX release. Because DX11 should be capable of this stuff, does not mean they used DX11 to make the images. It's a hell of a lot cheaper for them to make the slides using Maya or 3Dsmax, as those 2 programs don't require render farms to emulate an API that currently has no compatible hardware.

As far as the DX10 slides, search around in TPU. Probably the news section.


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## erocker (Nov 19, 2008)

Wile E said:


> It makes perfect sense. Stop and think about it for a minute D. All they showed were these pictures already completed. They did not show them being rendered. It was part of a series of slides on what DX11 should be capable of. They do this with every major DX release. Because DX11 should be capable of this stuff, does not mean they used DX11 to make the images. It's a hell of a lot cheaper for them to make the slides using Maya or 3Dsmax, as those 2 programs don't require render farms to emulate an API that currently has no compatible hardware.
> 
> As far as the DX10 slides, search around in TPU. Probably the news section.



I'm siding with WileE on this one D.  The DX11 screens are most likely a representation of what Direct X 11 will be.


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## DaMulta (Nov 19, 2008)

Microsoft has HARD CORE test put in place. There is a reason why AMD releases a driver every month on the dot. They have a in-house microsoft person there.

Also everyone keeps pointing at Crysis for this massive DX10 game, and when in fact it is a DX9 game IMO(just look how far before DX10 they started making it). The just used more coding to do it. This is why you can go in and edit the settings and DX10 looks almost the same.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb205073(VS.85).aspx


> Direct3D 9 to Direct3D 10 Considerations (Direct3D 10)
> 
> The following page provides a basic outline of key differences between Direct3D 9 and Direct3D 10. This documentation is preliminary and incomplete; it serves as a prelude to a comprehensive Direct3D 9 to Direct3D 10 porting and cross-platform development guide which will be provided in a future release of the DirectX SDK. The outline below provides some initial insight to assist developers with Direct3D 9 experience to explore and relate to Direct3D 10.
> 
> ...




http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173249(VS.85).aspx


> DXUT Reference
> 
> This section contains reference information for the elements provided by DXUT in the DXUT.h header file. DXUT makes Direct3D samples, prototypes, and tools as well as professional games more robust and easier to build. It simplifies the Windows and Direct3D APIs for typical usage.
> 
> ...




http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd229887(VS.85).aspx


> Compiling the DirectX SDK Samples
> 
> The DirectX SDK samples will not build properly until the DirectX include, library and tool directories have been added to the VC++ directories option in Visual Studio.
> Adding the DirectX directories to the VC++ build path
> ...





DX10 samples


> Samples for Direct3D 10
> 
> The following samples demonstrate the newest techniques incorporated into Direct3D 10:
> 
> ...





Download the latest SDK


> Direct3D 11 Technical Preview
> 
> Included in the November 2008 DirectX SDK is a technical preview of Direct3D 11 and associated components and tools. Direct3D 11 is an update to Direct3D 10.1 enabling new hardware features as well as improving the breadth of configurations supported by Direct3D. As such, Direct3D 11 enables developers to create applications and games that work on Direct3D 10, Direct3D 10.1, and Direct3D 11 hardware when it becomes available. With the addition of WARP and Direct3D 10 Level 9, Direct3D 10.1 and Direct3D 11 have the ability to target fast software rasterization and Direct3D 9 hardware.
> 
> ...





> manifest authoring warning 81010002: Unrecognized Element "requestedPrivileges" in namespace "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:asm.v2".
> 
> This is a known issue with the manifest tool (mt.exe) that ships in Visual Studio 2005 SP1. In order to remove this warning, developers should update their versions of mt.exe to the version that ships in the Windows SDK. Developers should update the three instances of mt.exe that ship in Visual Studio 2005 SP1:
> 
> ...



Good to see also
http://developer.download.nvidia.com/SDK/10/direct3d/samples.html


> NVIDIA Direct3D SDK 10 Code Samples
> 
> In each release of our SDK you will find numerous code samples, complete with carefully commented source code, whitepapers, and videos to help you take advantage of the latest technology from NVIDIA.
> 
> ...






 2008    Presentations and Audio Recordings
http://www.xnagamefest.com/presentations.htm#GRAPHICS_


> Performance Tools Update
> 
> 
> Karen Stevens
> ...



More N 
http://developer.nvidia.com/page/directx.html


> Selected Developer Presentations
> 
> NVISION08
> Introduction to the Direct3D 11 Graphics Pipeline
> ...





* youtube*
Radeon HD 2900 Global Illumination 

Radeon HD 2900 Skin Animation

Radeon HD 2900 GS NPatch Tessellation

Radeon HD 2900 Skin Animation recapture

nVIDIA Cascades Demo

----DX11
xNormal 3.16.3 realtime vector displacement mapping

Now what you were saying about 3dsmax

Just one of the plugs
After its enormous success on the market VRay has become the renderer of choice in big production studios across the world. Feature film productions, multi-million dollar game productions, huge and small architectural visualizations have trusted their visuals to VRay.
http://www.vray.us/vray_bundle.shtml





Yes this is pre rendered, but could be used in a game......could

And all of the plug ins can be used to make the game.

So yes, if microsoft wants to build non-real-time demos they can, but they go off their set of rules of what it will be in the end.

Or what it could be in the end......


But it sounds like they are using visual studio
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_XNA


> Microsoft XNA ("XNA's Not Acronymed", in other words, XNA is not an acronym[1]) is a set of tools with a managed runtime environment provided by Microsoft that facilitates computer game development and management. XNA attempts to free game designers from writing "repetitive boilerplate code"[2] and bring different aspects of game production into a single system. [3] The XNA toolset was announced March 24, 2004, at the Game Developers Conference in San Jose, California. A first Community Technology Preview of XNA Build was released on March 14, 2006. XNA Game Studio 2.0 was released in December of 2007, followed by XNA Game Studio 3.0 on October 30, 2008.
> 
> At GDC 2008, Microsoft announced plans to enable a community publishing pipeline for the Xbox 360 and Zune in the next version of XNA, version 3.0.[4]




XNA Framework

The XNA Framework is based on the native implementation of .NET Compact Framework 2.0 for Xbox 360 development and .NET Framework 2.0 on Windows. It includes an extensive set of class libraries, specific to game development, to promote maximum code reuse across target platforms. The framework runs on a version of the Common Language Runtime that is optimized for gaming to provide a managed execution environment. The runtime is available for Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Xbox 360. Since XNA games are written for the runtime, they can run on any platform that supports the XNA Framework with minimal or no modification. Games that run on the framework can technically be written in any .NET-compliant language, but only C# and XNA Game Studio Express IDE and all versions of Visual Studio 2005 are officially supported. [1]



> The XNA Framework thus encapsulates low-level technological details involved in coding a game, making sure that the framework itself takes care of the difference between platforms when games are ported from one compatible platform to another, and thereby allowing game developers to focus more on the content and gaming experience. The XNA Framework integrates with a number of tools, such as XACT, to aid in content creation. These tools can help author the visuals or sounds in the game, and model characters with life-like dynamism.
> 
> The XNA Framework provides support for both 2D and 3D game creation and allows use of the Xbox 360 controllers and vibrations. XNA framework games that target the Xbox platform can currently only be distributed to members of the Microsoft XNA Creator's Club which carries a $99/year subscription fee.[1] Desktop applications can be distributed free of charge under Microsoft's current licensing.



*The runtime is available for Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Xbox 360.*



Sony has their own tool PhyreEngine but can only go up to DX9c like 360
http://cuernavacajoven.com/phyreengine/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=31



> During the opening period of GDC 2008, only a few unique development middleware were announced, at that moment SONY computer entertainment Europe (SCEE)  announced their "PHYRE ENGINE". During his session entitled "PHYRE ENGINE-The New Hotness", Richard Forster (SCEE R&D -Research & Development- and Senior Engineer) did the introduction of this new engine: The pronunciation "of PHYRE ENGINE" is..., (whisppering can be heard) ..."Fire Engine" - because FIRE (the fire) is the feeling/idea which was put together in doing it. It was designed to be the pipeline of art data preparation/processing as an engine. Together with the Engine it comes a module full of source support, the package contains the engine itself, samples of games (70+ samples) and their full code source and artwork, also the full documentation and manuals. In wath it seems a "late start" (by SONY, related to XNA and other competitors) PhyreEngine comes out in great condition and it can become the main 3D game engine in the industry.
> 
> In Japan, the engine is not very well known, but in Europe, licenses were given already. For example, in the Xbox LIVE Arcade, a few games are already  offered, one of such is "Grip Shift"(Xbox 360 Exclusive by Sidhe Interactive), in the PSN Sotre is offered "flOw" plus its Expansion pack (PS3 Exclusive by Jenova Chen) and "Colin McRae: DiRT "(for PS3/Xbox360/PC by Codemasters). So, SONY made "PHYRE ENGINE" not only for PS3, but also to be the leading engine in the development of Xbox360 titles and PC games. Does "PHYRE ENGINE" mean Xbox360 Games will be made by SONY?; "PHYRE ENGINE" main feature is the fact that it is cross-plataform, at least it is how it is described by SCEE: "It does not matter if you call it Windows and/or Xbox360, the migration/exportation to these systems is designed to be utmost easy". The engine core has been designed so that it supports and optimizes the use of multiple core CPU sets especially the PS3 multicore: Cell.




So DX11 I think will affect PC/360/PS3/Wii

All of them in some manor......not all the way, but with more balance than there is now.


----------



## spearman914 (Nov 20, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> bad coding



And higher rendering quality.


----------



## Wile E (Nov 20, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> Microsoft has HARD CORE test put in place. There is a reason why AMD releases a driver every month on the dot. They have a in-house microsoft person there.
> 
> Also everyone keeps pointing at Crysis for this massive DX10 game, and when in fact it is a DX9 game IMO(just look how far before DX10 they started making it). The just used more coding to do it. This is why you can go in and edit the settings and DX10 looks almost the same.
> 
> ...


I didn't say it had to be 3DsMax. I said something LIKE 3Dsmax. I was just using it as an example. Quit getting hung up on technicalities. Posting all of the specs of DX10 and DX11 does not make these pictures real DX11 renders, either.

And your Vector displacement example doesn't say anything about being DX11, from what I can tell.

Now, you need to get something straight, because you seem to be misunderstanding something here. At no point in time did I ever say DX11 wouldn't be capable of such things. All I said was that these particular pictures were not rendered with DX11.


----------



## DaMulta (Nov 20, 2008)

LOL LOL

I'm just fing off.......

You said could be.....I didn't mean to say them only


...I was showing above, that MS had had test to show how to do it, before hand......

It's all above in that post....I learned things. 

Hope u did if you didn't know some of it either......

visual studio is what they said to use on MSN to render DX11 test right now.

You can import things from things like 3Dsmax or others.....with a Shader Debugger

Are we back at the same point yet lol


Posting all of the specs of DX10 and DX11 does show how it all works together. And how DX9 can work with DX10.

There is a point in looking at the specs IMO.


_
I am reading all of this before I post it BTW_


----------



## Lillebror (Nov 20, 2008)

If people dont belive that dx10 and dx11 brings any new stuff, they should go and watch some 64k demo's! Hardcore graphics demo's, that only uses 64kilobyte, but still manages to do some pretty nice graphics - and thats only dx7-8-9! If game programmers startet to use dx10 as a base for the games, they could make em so much better looking and faster!


----------



## DaMulta (Nov 20, 2008)

Bioshock seems to be getting a cool update

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lz7ApglZ2BQ


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## DaC (Nov 20, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> Bioshock seems to be getting a cool update
> 
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lz7ApglZ2BQ



LoL... so fake.... =]
I remeber the same video being as dx9 vs dx10 =]


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 20, 2008)

either way - DX11 isn't too much further off . . . I've read rumor that ATI plan on implimenting DX11 support next year with the HD5000 series - if they do, they'll more than likely beat nVidia to the punch.

I'd like to see MS not make DX11 OS specific like they did with DX10.  Sad thing is, we all know XP could've run DX10, MS has even admitted it was a major error on their part to not spend the money for DX10 + XP support; the user community had even made a strong effort in getting a project underway to port DX10 to XP, but fell apart.

Now, I couldn't imagine XP ever getting official DX10 support, and we know there's no way in hell it'll see DX11 . . . but at least allow DX11 to run on Vista, just incase OS7 turns into Vista-bomb^2.0, those of us forced to move up to Vista-bomb^1.0 won't be getting shafted in the DX department again.



Or - how about game devs drop DX altogether and start supporting OGL more?!!  Hell, OGL 3.0 specs are already available, and last I looked, OGL 2 was capable of pulling of renders that DX10 was capable of.  And it's free to use, as well - no OS dependancies!  

I'm sorry, but OGL is very much underrated and under appreciated.


----------



## johnnyfiive (Nov 20, 2008)

If those are real... everyone planning to build a new Nehalem rig might as well just save your money. I don't think any current hardware is going to run DX11 at a playable frame rate according to those screens.


----------



## DaMulta (Nov 20, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> either way - DX11 isn't too much further off . . . I've read rumor that ATI plan on implimenting DX11 support next year with the HD5000 series - if they do, they'll more than likely beat nVidia to the punch.
> 
> I'd like to see MS not make DX11 OS specific like they did with DX10.  Sad thing is, we all know XP could've run DX10, MS has even admitted it was a major error on their part to not spend the money for DX10 + XP support; the user community had even made a strong effort in getting a project underway to port DX10 to XP, but fell apart.
> 
> ...



XNA Framework/PhyreEngine

With those two above, you can make one game on all systems, BUT Apple and Linux.....I know what you are saying tho.


"Id" is the master of OpenGl


DX11 to me is going to be more about more cores than more video horse power. That way it can affect all systems and not just the PC.


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## imperialreign (Nov 20, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> XNA Framework/PhyreEngine
> 
> With those two above, you can make one game on all systems, BUT Apple and Linux.....I know what you are saying tho.
> 
> ...





yeah - ID software has paved the way for OGL implimentation . . . and when 3DFX was still alive and kicking, they hand a great hand in it as well with their Glide API (which was really just a streamlined, performance oriented OGL).

BTW, I thought OGL 3 supported multi-core as well?


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## DaMulta (Nov 20, 2008)

3dFx all the way!!!

It would run fast on almost any system you put one in. PCI or AGP it did not matter.



I hated OpenGL wrappers........


F-32bit color GIVE ME SPEED

E sent me a dual Voodoo 5 card over the summer

I wish I had a agp 1 motherboard to put it in.......


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 20, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> 3dFx all the way!!!
> 
> It would run fast on almost any system you put one in. PCI or AGP it did not matter.
> 
> ...





3DFX, IMO, has become a very respected and honored name . . . those of us who owned their accelerators were blessed (or possibly crazt, considering how much a VooDoo was compared to the competition).

I've still got a VooDoo 3 2000 AGP chillin here - damn, those cards ass-whipped every competitor on the market at the time . . . and if that wasn't enough, 3DFX also gave us the software with our driver packs necessary for OCing the GPU/DRAM.  IIRC, they were the first to be so lienant - it wasn't until which card series did either nVidia or ATI start offering that capability?  Matrox sure as hell didn't, and neither did Titan with their Hercules cards.

3DFX?  Those boys were off their rockers.  But they must've been doing something right to get so many other companies wanting to partner up - hell, Creative even released a VooDoo based 3D accelerator   It was a shame to see them fold, though - and screw nVidia for how they dicked us 3DFX owners.  They bought the company, and then dropped any further support for any 3DFX card :shadedshu

Not only was the VooDoo insanely fast, but let it run some OGL applications, and it was even more impressive - should that application also support their Glide API (e.g. Quake, Quake II), and not only were you kicking some FPS ass, but looking good doing it, too.

I once had a shootout with a buddy who swore his brand new ATI Rage 128 Pro AGP was faster than my VooDoo 3 - so we agreed to a spoils-of-war bench, the winner keeps the losers accelerator.  I was sure outright the VD3 would smack his card around, even at stock speeds . . . he didn't know mine was OCed, either 

Someday, I intend to mount my VD3 in a shadow box . . . it deserves a place of honor! 


BTW - you ever see this article: http://www.x86-secret.com/articles/divers/v5-6000/v56kgb-1.htm

The original boyz of the multi-GPU solution.

Gotta love their company slogan too "So powerful, it's kind of ridiculous." 


and, I must acknowledge as well - the original SLI:


----------



## Mussels (Nov 20, 2008)

*brain explodes* informative thread guys. pity those are pre-renders.


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## DaMulta (Nov 20, 2008)

Thats the card he gave me


I want to run doom 3 on vista on it lol


It should do it.......


I HATED they way N bought them. They closed their website like on day one, and boom 3dfx was dead. TOTAL BS.

Then they released the TNT2 card and it sucked so much ass. Everything sucked for years.....


3dfx was all about the parties and having fun and that's what lead them to the green team DOOR.

I didn't buy a N card for many years over the whole mess.



NO company has had the balls that they did. Now PALiT 
GTX 280 with  nickel DD block/ You can't go to Dangerden.com and order that block. Also do you see a block that nice on the EVGA cards?





I have other pics but I'm under a NDA.

BAD ASS

There is more, we want to push vmod. BUT when people do them no warranty


If you just look 8800Gs Sonic/9600GSO/9600GT/8800GT all non reference with a vmod on a water block will all run at 900Mhz stable.

NO SHIT



The tripple slot cooler bad ass, and who cares if the heat goes inside your case? Pump it out.....it's not like people install giant coolers on their CPU......
That 4870 triple slot cooler is something no one would release  at all.......

The Sonic cards do work. 

1 last thing just because I seen it in a review I can tell it. Palit has had only 1% fail rate on all the cards sold. WHICH IS CRAZY!

It's bad times right now, on all video card sales. If you happen to go to a lan event these days. You can see by just looking at all the cut backs on prizes, and how they setup the event. They just don't have the money. PALiT has been playing it safe in my book, and not dishing out 1 million different cards. They are just being here during the bad times.
There is much much more I wish I could share.........


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 20, 2008)

considering some of that info - I won't quote the post 


yeah - it was horrible how green shafted 3DFX owners, add in a couple of bad tech-support run-ins, and I'll never purchase an nVidia product (although I'll accept a gift  - they just won't get _my_ money).


I do miss the old days, though - back when a fragmatch was fun, and people were cool with each other - everyone was a good winner and good loser, no hard feelings during a match, shit happens . . .

nowadays, you can't go 15-30 minutes without having some name thrown your way, or a deragatory comment made; people accuse each other of hax left and right . . . for the moment, I've completely given up on MPing.


Companies are wanting to play it safe too - we don't have any company on the market right now that just stirs stuff up . . . sure, there's a whole lotta 90210 going on between the companies, but that's all mud-slinging and legal threatening - nothing like it was back in the day.  That's another reason why I miss 3DFX, when they started losing their performance lead with the VooDoo4, they started implimenting more multi-GPUs on one PCB solutions . . . which sent ATI, Matrox, nVidia, Titan and everyone else scrambling over each other back to the drawing boards.

All 3DFX had to do was release a statment with the words "We're developing a . . ." - and they'd all tuck tail and start burnign the midnight oil doing R&D.


Now - everyone just wants to play it safe; AMD is too hurting to do anything overly adventurous; Intel is just re-inventing their own wheels and then sandbagging.  nVidia has gotten their heads so far up their rear they swear they haven't dropped a stank turd in decades.  Who knows how ATI will go ATM - they've been fairly straight forward with nVidia recently, you can easily see their renoun confidence with the HD4000 series (seriously, I thought it hilarious when ATI pretty much called nVidia a friggin tech dinosaur ).



Damn - hard to think the good 'ol days were 8-12 years ago already


----------



## DaMulta (Nov 20, 2008)

Well thank u


IMO it's time to kick the door in and bring something fresh out.


----------



## JC316 (Nov 20, 2008)

Add me to that 3dfx lot. They were the best cards ever made IMO. My Voodoo 3 3000 PCI was a beast, but dear God the drivers were a pain to install. OpenGL and Glide were the bomb in the day. I wish they still used them.


----------



## DaMulta (Nov 20, 2008)

Now the mix of people at AMD right now with ATi is simply amazing right now.

They do have ideas rolling, and people do not see those ideas.

Remember when you used to see INQ post ATi stuff everyday......that has now stopped for the most. Wonder why????....

AMD is hurting, but ATi is not(and are because they are with AMD). They have kept them apart for different reasons.
If they had the cash that Intel has.........
I know they are working with one another on ideas. They all go to trade shows together..... Friends share ideas. I don't even have to know them to know that. Just look at us and what we talk about.

They are also the bunch that went through that fun stage. ATi has not backed down, and AMD has not either. What they have now may suck, but you need to look at where they are going, not where they are now.

Just look at all the low low watt CPUs from AMD. Companies loves that 1000 machines running under the electric of a light bulb hell yea. BIG$$$ savings.

When AMD Quad gets ready to really roll, and it will. Just look at the HD2900XT. And the 4870 same damn card, but unlike N they are improving it, and tweaking it. The next big cards are going to be shockers.

Everyone likes to say that AMD is scared, and I don't think that is the case. Even tho I have not talked to them in a long time. They are being competitive in the market on stock clocks. They know that people love to OC.

Just look at all the black CPUs they have out. They are catering to the people that OC just for fun in a cheap price. Intel you have to pay to play that way.

To have a unlinked-memory motherboard is $$$$$$ so to do that with Intel is going to cost.

What I see is in the end of 2009/These quads were a bad mojo headache from what I heard on making them/ They are also under NDA so do not say what they can or can not do. They can say just wait, and look you in the eye.

Intel does not have this, nor does Nvidia.

You make high-end GPU for PC console and more. You make High-end CPU, AND with chipsets.

You can't tell me someone has not thought of hey lets make all this work together........

I point to the Dragon that they are talking about. HUGE increase in speed. 

AM3(then the + )


----------



## Hayder_Master (Nov 20, 2008)

so any compare with dx10 or dx 10.1 , cuz i think there is no different


----------



## H82LUZ73 (Nov 20, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> 3dFx all the way!!!
> 
> It would run fast on almost any system you put one in. PCI or AGP it did not matter.
> 
> ...



I have an old MSI one.......Have to look at here in a few hours and get back too you it is still in a case.


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 20, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> Now the mix of people at AMD right now with ATi is simply amazing right now.
> 
> They do have ideas rolling, and people do not see those ideas.
> 
> ...





I completely agree - I've never said AMD has been scared of their competitors, nor ATI.  I think their biggest weaknesses they've displayed over the years, both companies have a knack for not advertising enough . . .

but, both companies are also very well known for pushing new technological advances, moving forward . . . something doesn't work out well, they go back to the drawing board and take a fresh approach - once they figure something out that works well, they continue to improve it . . . look at ATI's R500 series of GPUs . . . how long were those out on the market, and continued development?


I think one of their biggest strengths is that both companies are confident in their hardware, and it's capabilities - they don't advertise stuff that their hardware can't do, nor do they blow it out of proportion.  They've always taken the rough criticisms of their competition with grace, and don't fall into the name calling and mud-slinging (usually).

Out of all the major companies on the market, I look forward to the red camp's new hardware, simply to see what new technology they're pushing.  Like I said earlier, I'm fairly certain ATI will be the first graphics manufacturer with DX11 support (they woulda been first with DX10, but the merger delayed the HD2900), and they'll be the first with PCIE3.0 support - when was the last time nVidia brought a "tech first" to market before ATI?  DX10, and that's it, IIRC.


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## DaMulta (Nov 20, 2008)

No they would of been the first with DX10


Nvidia could not do the real deal DX10.....they could not pass the MS test.

Microsoft had to go back and change it, and then we have what today is called 10.1....which is not what MS wanted.

ATi was ready, and Nvidia was not. It forced ATi to change a few things so that Nvdia would not get kicked out of the door.


Do you not remember the first N vista drivers LOL.....


----------



## Polarman (Nov 21, 2008)

DirectX 10 -10.1 -11.

All i can say is that i do not have any games that requires it yet.

BTW, I'm not cheap... I'm just a bad consumer.


----------



## Solaris17 (Nov 21, 2008)

JC316 said:


> Add me to that 3dfx lot. They were the best cards ever made IMO. My Voodoo 3 3000 PCI was a beast, but dear God the drivers were a pain to install. OpenGL and Glide were the bomb in the day. I wish they still used them.



i love 3dfx i have a creative 3dfx banshee 4mb and i have a bottle cap as the HS on it i can throw that card drop it bury it under stuff submerge it under water and the thing will still give me video when other cards wont


----------



## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

I would love to get my hands on a Voodoo5 5500 PCI Graphics Card
So I could just play with it from time to time in any machine
I do have the AGP card thanks to Erocker, but I don't have a AGP1 board




There are still people writing drivers for 3dfx LOL

A review ROFL
http://hothardware.com/Articles/3dfx-Voodoo5-5500-PCI/?page=1


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 21, 2008)

I think it's pretty 1337 that people keep writing drivers for the VooDoo series.

I'm with ya on still wishing for an AGP board, I'd love to run Q2/Glide with my VooDoo3 just for old-times sake . . . but no AGP board here, either 



I also think it's sad how MS caved to nVidia over the DX10 thing . . . nVidia also screwed us out of DX10/DirectSound capability as well.

Little known fact, but during development of the Vista OS, MS was working with nVidia _and_ Creative Labs for devlopement of DirectSound support.  For some reason, nVidia dropped the project altogether, and MS abandonded it as well - leaving Creative about 3 months to get "new" Vista drivers ready for Vista's launch.  I say _new_ because their original drivers were desgined for an OS that _would have had_ DS support.  Big reason, IMO, why Creative was almost 6 months late with official Vista drivers - and even then they were more of a beta state.


----------



## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

U think that is 1337 LOL


Look doom 3 on voodoo cards

http://www.3dfxzone.it/enboard/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1462
many more pics


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## imperialreign (Nov 21, 2008)

and still - at playable frame rates! 



I don't know if you ever saw these screen images - rendered by a VooDoo 5 6000:

http://www.x86-secret.com/pics/divers/v56k/doom3_2_hq.jpg

http://www.x86-secret.com/pics/divers/v56k/doom3_1_hq.jpg


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## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

One of those cards went for sale last year.....big bucks


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## imperialreign (Nov 21, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> One of those cards went for sale last year.....big bucks



no shit?!   How much did it sell for?!

I didn't even think any of those went into production - I'm sure if it was an engineering sample, that'd be a geek collector's item right there.


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## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

They are worth around 1000USD


It really depends on WHO wants it.


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## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> and still - at playable frame rates!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would play it JUST FOR FUN and the 

The whole game


----------



## imperialreign (Nov 21, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> They are worth around 1000USD
> 
> 
> It really depends on WHO wants it.





I'm sure - although, 10 years down the road, it'd still be a collector's item, and still be just as honored and respected as the VooDoos we hold in our hand.

Hell, even Sol's Creative Banshee, IMHO, is a collector's item - one of the few lines of video cards that were ever released under the Creative Lab's logo, and stouting a Banshee GPU as well.

They are cards that wrote GPU history, broke the boundaries of performance for their time - rewrote the rules that everyone was playing by . . . e.g. we know the cards were 16b, and 24b display capable, but the 24b dither wasn't applied until the frame ready in the frame buffer - which is why the screenshot don't do the cards any justice.  What you're seeing is the 16b render before the final filtering for display is done.


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## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

That is why I have 80286 boards, FM Hard drive with Controlers, all sorts of old odd cards, a eaily 90's sun machine. The first real apple in my eyes Macintosh 128K. WHICH still works I started it up not to long ago.....





not my pic

If you open the case on mine! You see that all the main people that went into creating it signed it. One of the FIST ones off the line.


----------



## Wile E (Nov 21, 2008)

So, what the hell has you so wound up lately, D? lol.


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## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

Good mood


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## Wile E (Nov 21, 2008)

So what pills did they give you now? 


And can I have some?


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## imperialreign (Nov 21, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> That is why I have 80286 boards, FM Hard drive with Controlers, all sorts of old odd cards, a eaily 90's sun machine. The first real apple in my eyes Macintosh 128K. WHICH still works I started it up not to long ago.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...






damn!  I haven't seen a single-button mouse like that if effin' ages! Nor an old MAC like that 

almost makes me want to dig out my old C64 sometime 



damn - have we gone all nostaliga or what?!   I swear we should start a 3DFX owner's club at some point


----------



## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

Adpex...they just need to double my dose because I run out


I have not had a migraine in TWO MONTHS. I say thank you to those pills!!!! I swear for the past two years I had one every other day, and at least one every other week that would almost bring me to tears...


----------



## Wile E (Nov 21, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> Adpex...they just need to double my dose because I run out
> 
> 
> I have not had a migraine in TWO MONTHS. I say thank you to those pills!!!! I swear for the past two years I had one every other day, and at least one every other week that would almost bring me to tears...



I know your pain D. I get them so bad they make me vomit. I take Fioricet for them.


----------



## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> damn!  I haven't seen a single-button mouse like that if effin' ages! Nor an old MAC like that
> 
> almost makes me want to dig out my old C64 sometime
> 
> ...



I also have





http://www.axess.com/twilight/sock/


> From Sock Master's Tandy Color Computer 3 page:
> 
> The Tandy Color Computer 3 may well be the ultimate hobby computer. It's easy to program, easily interfaces with the real world (It has 4 analog inputs, 1 analog output, and numerous digital inputs and outputs built-in), and it's easy to create your own hardware.




I always remember my dad and his friends messing with that. They would make all sorts of programs and hardware just for fun. I think after it he never really liked computers like he did in those moments.......I think I have two, 2 fool long drawers of 1/5 floppy disc programs for it....



He did run an arcade business for 5-10 years after that. Which he would fix all the problems. In those times, a cap would fry a chip any thing all the time. You would have to read the waves of all the chips to hunt it down and fix it. My dad was VERY VERY good at it. His main job(One of the top 5 oil companies in the world) before becoming a Network Engineer was fixing computer hardware monitors to motherboards you name it. Back then it was cheaper to have a in house guy to fix the part. Now they just throw it away...even when the part is 20,000 because it would be cheaper than to fix it.

Also he is all self taught to this day for the most(only HS and 4 years in the air force). He will only take a class if forced, and he has not been forced to in over 15 years. Right now he is moving into the major airports main systems, and they are telling him he needs to get certified. He more or less said no I don't want to, and they still hired him. If you know your stuff then IMO you don't need that silly paper work.

My dad used to love this stuff like many of us do around these parts. I hate that he does not like it really at all anymore. He really does not care and he used to big time. I have told this sooo many times, but it is cool every time I say it. He and his friend(he claims, but my dad never lies about anything) made the first the first high res monitor. Then they put it in PC magazines and sold a few, but the big company's stepped in with a better idea from their idea and they went broke..the other guy from what my dad tells me more or less became a drunk on the side of the road...He does not really talk about it(even if I ask about it the topic dies real quick(only reason I know is my mom brought it up one day, and he told me about it really that 1 time only),I think it pisses him off.



I always go off talking about him. He is the one that made me love tech the way I do today. To me he is the man, even if he is not up with the times in hardware(besides network). He still knows the basics of how it all works.


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## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

To me and my dad on this stuff. It's almost why overclock it and kill it? Why not just make a faster one that works better? That's the smarter thing to do......BUT he does understand that it's what I like to do, and if I need help I can always ask......


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## imperialreign (Nov 21, 2008)

similar to how I grew up - my father was an aeromotive technician for the military for 20 years, mostly programming and troubleshooting the onboard computers of the F-14 fighters.  My father started teaching me how to program a C64 around the age of 5, and I've had my hand inside a computer chasis ever since.  Spent many a year when I was younger OCing early systems.  The only ocmponet I've ever killed OCing so far was an old Pentium Pro CPU, and mostly because I had accidentally set the switches on the mobo wrong.

even still, I don't think I'd be as far into it as I currently am if not for that upbringing.  Still rather intersting to look back on how much has changed in the last 15-20 years, though.


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## Wile E (Nov 21, 2008)

My dad taught me how to smoke weed and drink. Does that count?


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## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

I never had to overclock until I had to buy my own things(From p-2 up and that was doing my own learning not internet really. I used the net for other things(I into BBS hardcore before internet)). They would just throw the stuff away for a update all the time in those days.

I always had a board maxed out with ram or what ever. Any kind of new hard drives. Heck when video went into CD-Games I would just load the cd on a SCSi drive LOL damn cd speeds lol

I miss video being inside games

O the good times you have to remember this game on PC.

Star Wars - Rebel Assault - Gameplay Part 1/4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=359qyiXskCE

Wiki says
1993 so I was 13 teen years old.....



Wile E said:


> My dad taught me how to smoke weed and drink. Does that count?



Are you good at it? Even tho you don't do that stuff anymore?
(just messen)

How did you get into cars wile?


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## Wile E (Nov 21, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> I never had to overclock until I had to buy my own things(From p-2 up and that was doing my own learning not internet really. I used the net for other things(I into BBS hardcore before internet)). They would just throw the stuff away for a update all the time in those days.
> 
> I always had a board maxed out with ram or what ever. Any kind of new hard drives. Heck when video went into CD-Games I would just load the cd on a SCSi drive LOL damn cd speeds lol
> 
> ...


Grandfather owned a garage, and we used to go to the drag strip a couple times a month.


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## DaMulta (Nov 21, 2008)

There you go, and now I understand why you love it so much.


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## reviewhunter (Nov 22, 2008)

*Microsoft DirectX 11 Screenshots*



















more at: http://lly316.blogspot.com/2008/11/microsoft-directx-11-screenshots.html


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## smalls21 (Nov 22, 2008)

Those shots are amazing. Especially the one of the Joker. So real looking. I need to rebuild my gaming rig so that when direct x 11 comes out I can rock some sick games that will look like that..


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## Homeless (Nov 22, 2008)

I think someone posted these here and confirmed them to not be real.  I could be wrong though


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## DaMulta (Nov 22, 2008)

Lots and lots and lots of reading.....
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=76534


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## InnocentCriminal (Nov 22, 2008)

I haven't seen the Joker one before.


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## stuartb04 (Nov 22, 2008)

unreal pics.
amazing


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## James1991 (Nov 22, 2008)

DaMulta said:


> Lots and lots and lots of reading.....
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=76534


lots and lots is a bit of an under statement.

oh and was it fun trying to explain all that stuff to everyone and who knows you might have to again in this thread


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## titan_zero (Nov 22, 2008)

woo what now when I start to see the power of directx 10 they think in directx 11 this is a crazy 
i will not waste my money in a new video card that support direct x11 i have a sli that is enough for me ........


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## Morgoth (Nov 22, 2008)

wondering if this works with larrabee


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## oli_ramsay (Nov 22, 2008)

Here's a couple more that are apparently DX11 taken from vr-zone a couple of days ago.  Some say that they're actually showcasing ray tracing as oppose to DX11, either way they're pretty stunning:


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## InnocentCriminal (Nov 22, 2008)

Errr... deja vu!


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