# A question about thermal paste - Keratherm KP 12



## TheHunter (Oct 22, 2013)

I found this Keratherm KP 12, by specifications it looks better then anything out on the market atm, even indigo extreme - by thermal resistance



> KERATHERM®are highly flexible products comprising thermally conductive and electrically insulating single or multi-component polymers filled with ceramic or heat-conducting materials.
> 
> KERATHERM®, when mechanically reinforced by the incorporation of fiber-glass or other materials, offers the user a versatile product that is superior in many aspects to conventional ceramic or mica discs.
> 
> ...








http://www.kerafol.com/fileadmin/us...ärmeleitpastenKP_96_KP_97_KP_98_KP_12_ENG.pdf

Well now im using Noctua NH-T1 and to be honest original pre-applied Shin-Etsu x23 on H90 cooler worked better 2-4C.


I see they put some serious work to make all those measurements/calculations.. They know their stuff very well 
http://www.kerafol.com/en/innovation-in-thermal-management/keratherm.html

What do you all think, is this KP 12 really that good?


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## Peter1986C (Oct 23, 2013)

You dont want electrically conductive paste just in case esp. if you will use it for e.g. GPUs (larger risk of "bleeding" because GPUs are usually without IHS and having a small surface area).


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## a_ump (Oct 23, 2013)

by specifications, the KP 98 would be better as it has no electrical conductivity and still has better thermal conductivity than indigo extreme. 

Also you probably did make a mistake switching out the TIM on your HSF, shin etsu is good paste.


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## TheHunter (Oct 23, 2013)

^
Yeah.. 

Hmm that KP 98 has less thermal conductivity 6.0 instead 10.0, wouldnt it be less efficient? 


Btw, how bad is this electrical conductivity? 

Would it be ok if I put mini pea sized drop on cpu and then H90 cooler on it (I think its copper), as long as it doesn't touch cpu pcb (go over the edges)?


Edit: what about this one, it appears to have higher heat tolerance -60C - +200C and same 10w/mk
http://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/189070/

spec
http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/d...70-da-01-en-WL_DISP_KP92_WAERMELEITP_3_ML.pdf


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Oct 23, 2013)

AS5 is conductive and has been used quite widely, but mainly because it's reign started before most knew the danger and there wasn't much competition. Now with so many non-conductive good performing options I wouldn't bother with any conductive paste.


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## Mussels (Oct 23, 2013)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> AS5 is conductive and has been used quite widely, but mainly because it's reign started before most knew the danger and there wasn't much competition. Now with so many non-conductive good performing options I wouldn't bother with any conductive paste.



AS5 is capacitive, not conductive.


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## TheHunter (Oct 23, 2013)

Hi, thanks for all replies 


Well I took the plunge and ordered it anyway 


Actually I ordered 1x KP 12 and 1x KP 92 non electrically conductive - guess I'll use only this one though.. 

This KP 92 still looks better then anything out atm, hopefully it really delivers 
http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/d...70-da-01-en-WL_DISP_KP92_WAERMELEITP_3_ML.pdf




//Will post back how this KP  92 goes, I should get it sometime next week.


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## GreiverBlade (Oct 23, 2013)

10W/mK wow ... looking forward your test results 

my favorit atm are 2 classics Arctic MX-4 (yep Arctic Cooling not the other Arctic) and Prolimatech PK-3


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## TheHunter (Oct 23, 2013)

^
The max I saw so far without being electrically conductive was Prolimatech PK-3 with 11.2w/mK, but it has much lower thermal impedance. 


I also reapplied Noctua NH-T1, now I made like a thin layer with a spreader, will see how this goes until i get that KP 92.  
Well it is better in idle atm 1-2C (26-27C) vs small rice grain line (28-29C).


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## GreiverBlade (Oct 23, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> ^
> The max I saw so far without being electrically conductive was Prolimatech PK-3 with 11.2w/mK, but it has much lower thermal impedance.
> 
> 
> ...



gah! since i got my tube of PK-3 with a 2nd hand MK-26 i didnt know the W/mK  otherwise i would have use it instead of the MX-4 today when i  cleaned my 2 Matrix 

iirc Mx-4 is 8.5 

wait W/mK is not comparable to W/mC right? whats the conversion between Celsius and Kelvin allready?  and im sure im horribly wrong ... silly Prolimatech website ... W/mC


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## TheHunter (Oct 23, 2013)

Its kinda confusing, I think W/mK is the right one.

For example here by Indigo extreme it shows the same W/mK, they mention AS5  lower then usual 8.7 W/mK, with only 1.12 W/mK. 
http://indigo-xtreme.com/comparison.html


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## GreiverBlade (Oct 23, 2013)

i dont like Arctic, the fake ... not AC (Arctic Cooling) wich renamed to Arctic (the real, swiss ... quality ... watch ... precision.... uh wait ... nope ) 

well W/mK is the right usual one ... but 11.2W/mC is used on the official site of prolimatech and afaik K and C refere to Celsius and Kelvin (m for Mili iirc)

rahhh and indigo comparison show the Shin Etsu ... wich is discontinued if i remember ... sad ...


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## TheHunter (Oct 23, 2013)

yeah, now this noname KP 92 with 10W/mK and thermal resistance Rth only 0.008 K/W (indigo xtreme 0.04 K/W) sounds almost unreal


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## GreiverBlade (Oct 23, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> yeah, now this noname KP 92 with 10W/mK and thermal resistance Rth only 0.008 K/W (indigo xtreme 0.04 K/W) sounds almost unreal



thats why i wait on your feedback  im glad its not me who test it (in case it is not up the tech spec obviously) thanks to you and other people who want to do such things, we have some reliable test other than spreadsheet and WOW spec from manufacturer (for every manufacturer their product is "the best ever!")

i made once the mistake to test a TIM ... well that was the worst one i ever got ...

Spire Bluefrost 2.8W/mK (i wasnt aware that time of what W/mK was  ) it turned to be Spire BlueWorst


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## TheHunter (Oct 24, 2013)

btw what is a better method for a paste with average viscosity - that can also spread alone under cooler?

- around pea sized ball in the middle (capacitor size, if flatten a bit)
- spreading a thin layer on pc with a plastic card


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## GreiverBlade (Oct 24, 2013)

TheHunter said:


> btw what is a better method for a paste with average viscosity, that can also spread alone under cooler?
> 
> 
> - around pea sized ball in the middle (capacitor size, if flatten a bit)
> - spreading a thin layer on pc with a plastic card



i usually use the pea sized drop 1-2 for CPU and GPU without IHS 5-6 square-cross patern for huge gpu IHS 

i changed the TIM of my matrix and i checked the spreading : its pretty even distributed on the IHS

by the way (sorryyyy i cant resist)


TheHunter said:


> - spreading a thin layer on pc with a plastic card



its better if you spread it on the CPU/GPU/chip instead of "ON" the PC, 1st its not efficient 2nd its pretty sticky and it attract dust and cats


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## TheHunter (Oct 24, 2013)

right, yes I meant cpu there 


Well today I tried this spreading method and its around the same temp. wise like by a bit bigger pea sized drop (my 1st try), still nothing like that preapplied Shin-Etsu though -_-


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## Peter1986C (Oct 24, 2013)

A pea size may be a pit much, maybe a rice grain size is better (at least it is what I do).


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## GreiverBlade (Oct 24, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> A pea size may be a pit much, maybe a rice grain size is better (at least it is what I do).



oh my peas are really little where i live ... pretty much in winter due to the cold weather, don't worry


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## Peter1986C (Oct 24, 2013)

Well, I know you meant regular peas and not chickpeas, lol.


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## GreiverBlade (Oct 24, 2013)

Chevalr1c said:


> Well, I know you meant regular peas and not chickpeas, lol.



nono they are even smaller than regular peas ... more like hum ... wait you're right ... Rice grain


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## Peter1986C (Oct 24, 2013)




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## TheHunter (Oct 25, 2013)

It was't thaaat big, maybe just a little larger then this small pea sized you two talk about lol


And I just found this while checking Shin-Etsu X23 pdfs,


 looks very interesting wish I had such hand movements


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## micropage7 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sometimes it depends on the chip, larger chip may use more paste than smaller chip. I usually use about single dot or 4 dots for larger chip. But any method that you use, little paste is better


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## TheHunter (Oct 26, 2013)

Ok I got it today and its not so good, at least KP 92.

K12 looks a bit thick with low viscosity, I tested  on a piece of paper (mini pea sized ball) and it didn't spread much, half compared to noctua NT-H1 or KP 92.

K92 is more fluid, spreads quite smooth, but yeah its at least 6-8C worse compared to Noctua NT-H1 in Cinebench tests.. 

Cinebench15 or 11.5
---------------------
Default preapplied Shin-Etsu ~71-70-70-60C
Noctua NT-H1 75-72-70-61C
KP 92 84-79-79-70C

Guess I had to high expectations, or maybe it needs some curing idk... So far its really a mess 1-2hrs using it. 

Idle is around the same as Noctua 27-29C  



Idk about KP12, in one document it said its slightly electrically conductive, but in this pdf its market as -, just like by KP 92.
http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/d...n-WL_DISP_KP12_WAERMELEITP_SILBERFREI_3ML.pdf


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## TheHunter (Oct 26, 2013)

Ok, I re-applied NT-H1 back.. Not worth the hassle. 


Now max temp. in normal windows use @ 4.7GHz 1.28v; 
NT-H1: 45-37-40-37C; 
before KP 92: 55-48-42-40C, kinda says it all. 

Ah well 10€ down the drain :shadedshu


Edit: now full load Cinebench15, I think I also did a better job re-appling the paste 

72-69-67-59C



I'll just stick with this atm and call it a day. Thanks all for your time.


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## GreiverBlade (Oct 26, 2013)

MX-4: 25-29-25-22 idle max in a average use 30-34-32-29 (no ful load atm) and since its a Xeon E3 i dont OC


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