# BSOD Memory_management



## IceScreamer (Jan 13, 2019)

So from about a month ago I have been getting random blue screens with memory_management warnings. In about 5 times out of 7 it happens when using Firefox, a tab would crash, then Firefox would freeze and a BSOD happens.
Out of the possible fixes suggested I reset the BIOS, swapped memory sticks, updated my drivers, ran sfc /scannow, no problems reported, nothing changed, I still got a BSOD. 
Last night I ran memtest86 for about 6 hours. It did 5 passes with no errors reported. There is no overheating present and everything works perfectly, apart from the said issue.
It doesn't allow me to upload *.dmp files here for some reason so I linked them to a google drive folder. If there is a more secure way to upload these files do let me know.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1DTtx9OHDWX3kubHgMv3ZguTsk0Uia-jh?usp=sharing
All of them show a problem in the kernel, so I'm stumped. Can anyone with more knowledge analyze this and point me in the right direction?


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## er557 (Jan 13, 2019)

clean install a stable windows 10 version(LTSB?) on another partition in dual boot mode, and test that install for issues. Than you'll know if it's an issue with the computer or just a windows glitch.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 13, 2019)

er557 said:


> clean install a stable windows 10 version(LTSB?) on another partition in dual boot mode, and test that install for issues. Than you'll know if it's an issue with the computer or just a windows glitch.


I was trying to avoid this, I'm strapped for time but I guess I'll have to.


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## biffzinker (Jan 13, 2019)

Could try a small bump to voltage, I've had memory stress tests pass but Firefox crash or BSOD with memory management.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 13, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Could try a small bump to voltage, I've had memory stress tests pass but Firefox crash or BSOD with memory management.


Hmm, will check that too thanks, the problem is I can't really force the BSOD on demand.


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## Regeneration (Jan 13, 2019)

Memory management BSOD is mostly related to memory modules/memory controller/memory configuration but sometimes to the entire bus.

MemTest86 is outdated, intended for single-core processors with discrete memory controller and shouldn't be used in 2019.

Run MemTest64 or HCI MemTest in safe mode to stress test the memory modules and configuration.

Prime95 custom torture test of 512K to 4096K with 90% of the RAM should stress the memory controller.

Check out the memory configuration in the BIOS. If its not overclocked, make sure the voltage and timing are set correctly according to the SPD information.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 13, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> Memory management BSOD is mostly related to memory modules/memory controller/memory configuration but sometimes to the entire bus.
> 
> MemTest86 is outdated, intended for single-core processors with discrete memory controller and shouldn't be used in 2019.
> 
> ...


Will do that, thanks.

EDIT: Just did 11 loops of MemTest64 in safe mode, no errors reported.
EDIT2: Prime95 set up as mentioned, 9 tests, 33 mins, 0 warnings 0 errors.


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## Regeneration (Jan 13, 2019)

You need to run each for a few hours.

According to your dump files, it is 0x1A, 0x41790 BSOD (corrupted page table). Bad mapping of physical memory to virtual memory.

Check the OS drive for errors, check the SMART data, re-create the pagefile, if you installed some driver recently, try to uninstall it.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 13, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> You need to run each for a few hours.
> 
> According to your dump files, it is 0x1A, 0x41790 BSOD (corrupted page table). Bad mapping of physical memory to virtual memory.
> 
> Check the OS drive for errors, check the SMART data, re-create the pagefile, if you installed some driver recently, try to uninstall it.


Currently unable to do the tests for more than an hour, projects coming up. The hard drive is a month old, SMART data is showing no errors. Only driver that was installed was the NVIDIA one and I installed and reinstalled that one a couple of times. I will try the pagefile rebuild.


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## Regeneration (Jan 13, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> So from about a month ago I have been getting random blue screens with memory_management warnings.





IceScreamer said:


> The hard drive is a month old



Did you make any other alterations to the PC?


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## IceScreamer (Jan 13, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> Did you make any other alterations to the PC?


Nope, tho I did clone my old hard drive to this one. I mean I doubted that could be issue but there were no errors and everything booted and worked fine.


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## Regeneration (Jan 13, 2019)

Sounds like the pagefile is corrupt, or the clone went bad, or the new drive is defective.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 13, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> Sounds like the pagefile is corrupt, or the clone went bad, or the new drive is defective.


The drive is definitely not defective, I tested it a couple of time. The clone could be bad but I thought I'd be having other issues too. 

Is there a way to repair the pagefile, or does just disabling/rebooting/enabling fixes it?


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## Regeneration (Jan 13, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> The drive is definitely not defective, I tested it a couple of time. The clone could be bad but I thought I'd be having other issues too.
> 
> Is there a way to repair the pagefile, or does just disabling/rebooting/enabling fixes it?



Disable, reboot, make sure the file is gone, and enable again.


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## er557 (Jan 13, 2019)

I would disable the page file altogether, and work like that to see if issue persists, also try enable the large system cache tweak, or change priority in memory management from applications to background processes. The setting is somewhere in advanced "this pc" properties, performance section.
After some time of stability, re-enable the page file to automatically assigned size, to another drive.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 13, 2019)

I rebuilt the pagefile and now I'll see and report if something happens. Thanks for all the suggestions.


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## silentbogo (Jan 13, 2019)

Had the exact same issue at work this fall.
Built a brand-new PC, and every attempt at installing windows would result in memory management BSOD. 
At first I thought it was bad motherboard(lots of complaints about that cheap B250 board from Gigabyte and its memory-related issues), but came out to be defective DDR4. 
But since you've already tried swapping memory in your PC, I'd assume that motherboard could be a problem.



Regeneration said:


> According to your dump files, it is 0x1A, 0x41790 BSOD (corrupted page table). Bad mapping of physical memory to virtual memory.


That's not the pagefile, that's related to paging of the physical memory.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 13, 2019)

silentbogo said:


> Had the exact same issue at work this fall.
> Built a brand-new PC, and every attempt at installing windows would result in memory management BSOD.
> At first I thought it was bad motherboard(lots of complaints about that cheap B250 board from Gigabyte and its memory-related issues), but came out to be defective DDR4.
> But since you've already tried swapping memory in your PC, I'd assume that motherboard could be a problem.
> ...


By swapped memory stick I meant swapped their position in the memory slots, not completely different sticks.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 13, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> By swapped memory stick I meant swapped their position in the memory slots, not completely different sticks.



Ok test 1 module at a time now.


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## Shambles1980 (Jan 13, 2019)

have you bent any socket pins?


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 13, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> swapped memory sticks


Swapped with what? Totally different sticks?


Regeneration said:


> MemTest86 is outdated


No its not.


Regeneration said:


> intended for single-core processors with discrete memory controller and shouldn't be used in 2019.


Ummm, sorry, but that is totally inaccurate. 

Do not confuse MemTest86 with other "outdated" products of similar (and even the same) names. This tester from PassMark is actively being maintained current, and under constant development to ensure it remains current. Note the most recent version, 8.1 was just released less than 2 weeks ago on Jan 4, 2019. 

So MemTest86 from Passmark is, by far, the most current, and is fully capable of working with multi-core processors. 

That said, no software based memory tester is 100% conclusive. If MemTest86 reports any errors (even just 1) the RAM is bad. But it may not report any errors and the RAM still fails when installed and used with real-world applications, or when paired with other RAM. To conclusively test your RAM, you need to use sophisticated and very expensive test equipment, like this $2,495 Memory Tester (and that's for the cheap model)! So it is usually easier (and cheaper!) to swap in known good RAM and see what happens.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 13, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> Ok test 1 module at a time now.


Will try if it crashes again.


Shambles1980 said:


> have you bent any socket pins?


Pretty sure I didn't but I might check if it crashes again.


Bill_Bright said:


> Swapped with what? Totally different sticks?
> No its not.
> Ummm, sorry, but that is totally inaccurate.
> 
> ...


Swapped places of the two sticks, like stick from slot A to slot B and vice versa, I know that this sometimes fixes these sort of issues.


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## Mr.Scott (Jan 13, 2019)

Had exact same issue only using Google Chrome.
Chrome was actually causing a memory leak. Un-installed Chrome and re-installed, problem gone.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 13, 2019)

Mr.Scott said:


> Had exact same issue only using Google Chrome.
> Chrome was actually causing a memory leak. Un-installed Chrome and re-installed, problem gone.



Sounds like Firefox at times too


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## Regeneration (Jan 13, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Ummm, sorry, but that is totally inaccurate.
> 
> Do not confuse MemTest86 with other "outdated" products of similar (and even the same) names. This tester from PassMark is actively being maintained current, and under constant development to ensure it remains current. Note the most recent version, 8.1 was just released less than 2 weeks ago on Jan 4, 2019.
> 
> ...



Despite being maintained by PassMark, MemTest86 is still a single-threaded application at core, incapable of real multi-threading without producing false positives. Insufficient for today's hardware and must be written from scratch.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 14, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> Despite being maintained by PassMark, MemTest86 is still a single-threaded application at core, incapable of real multi-threading without producing false positives. Insufficient for today's hardware and must be written from scratch.


I sure wish people would do their homework before posting. 

PassMark's MemTest86 has tested in multi-thread mode since 2011 - where the hardware supports it.

And so what? You are testing the RAM, not the CPU. And that is the same issue with your HCI MemTest so why would you suggest it if it "should not be used in 2019"? That makes no sense and, as I noted, is just not accurate.

*RAM testing does not care how many threads or cores on the CPU you are using* - except to improve testing speeds. That is why it is incorrect to say it is "_intended for single-core processors with discrete memory controller and shouldn't be used in 2019._"  

I've been doing hardware tech support since the early 70s and MemTest86 on DEC and Vax systems since the late 80s. I have never - not once seen a "false positive" (with any decent tester!). A false positive would be where the program reports the RAM is faulty, but it is really good. If any error is reported, the RAM is bad. The problem is, no errors might be reported, but the RAM is still faulty - but that is the case with any software based memory tester, including your suggested HCI MemTest.

And to your HCI MemTest, there is nothing in its documentation about multi or single threaded application. 

As I noted above, no software based program is conclusive. But to suggest it cannot do its job because it is single threaded (which was wrong to begin with), or that it should not be used in 2019 is just bad information and advice.

Sorry. Nothing personal. Those are just the facts and that's what matters here.


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## Regeneration (Jan 14, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> I sure wish people would do their homework before posting.
> 
> PassMark's MemTest86 has tested in multi-thread mode since 2011 - where the hardware supports it.
> 
> ...



Ever since Nehalem, memory bandwidth is somehow capped per core, unless other cores are in deep sleep.

To fully stress test memory modules, the memory must be accessed by several cores simultaneously. Otherwise, it will fail to detect some errors (bad configuration, overheating, lack of voltage, wrong timing) even after 10 hours.

HCI MemTest is outdated too, but you can run several instances of it, and assign each to a core / virtual core.

You should be using MemTest64 / AIDA64 Memory Stress Test / several instances of HCI MemTest to check for RAM errors.







Single core operation, obsolete in 2019, will only detect extreme errors or defective memory chips.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 14, 2019)

Gee whiz.  In other words, you are now confirming what I said all along - that is, no software based program is conclusive therefore users need to swap in known good RAM to see if the problems recur.


Regeneration said:


> To fully stress test memory modules, the memory must be accessed by several cores simultaneously


Which MemTest86 does - again if you did your homework you would see. 

I see no reason to continue this side discussion so I'm done here. Have a good day.


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## silentbogo (Jan 14, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> Ever since Nehalem, memory bandwidth is somehow capped per core, unless other cores are in deep sleep.


Unlike v4 which you are probably thinking about, the modern implementation is completely based on UEFI (can even be installed as a UEFI App on your PC). Legacy stuff has been completely removed (incl. BIOS support, PAE-based addressing, etc). New version does not have any downsides of the legacy version. Even devs themselves stated that v5 was re-written from scratch in order to address all issues at once.
Plus you are forgetting the main purpose of memtest: it was created to detect memory errors, like in OPs situation (e.g. faulty cells, banks etc). Overclocking stability testing is just a side-effect which over time grew up to be a full feature.



Regeneration said:


> You should be using MemTest64 / AIDA64 Memory Stress Test / several instances of HCI MemTest to check for RAM errors.


That's a good way to test memory bandwidth and overall performance, but that' where it ends.
You will get jack shit for accurate error testing, since: a) you don't have access to the entire memory pool; b) your tests are running behind a dozen levels of abstraction; c) even if you do get errors, you don't know what's the cause due to *. *
Even something as banal  and boring as running mdsched will give you more accurate results.

As much as I like what W1zzard has done with the tool, it's pretty much useless. Tested it on several Asus Zenbooks with some dead RAM just for fun (rarely booted between BSODs), and 4-5 runs wouldn't find a single error, cause the problematic addresses were out of userland's reach (reserved by system). Legacy memtest86 v4 found consistent errors on the first run within minutes.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 14, 2019)

No point in argiung when @IceScreamer hasn't been back to post results...


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## IceScreamer (Jan 14, 2019)

Oh, I was gonna write that everything is fine so far. So from now on, if I don't post anything it means that everything is ok. It appears that the pagefile rebuild helped.


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## trparky (Jan 14, 2019)

OK, this may seem like a really dumb question but wouldn't the page file be rebuilt every time you reboot the system? Think about it, when you reboot the system you're essentially starting out with a clean memory slate. Any and all stuff in memory is wiped out so what is in the page file is useless. Right?


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## IceScreamer (Jan 14, 2019)

trparky said:


> OK, this may seem like a really dumb question but wouldn't the page file be rebuilt every time you reboot the system? Think about it, when you reboot the system you're essentially starting out with a clean memory slate. Any and all stuff in memory is wiped out so what is in the page file is useless. Right?


To be honest I know very little about this, but I figured since it is a file that is being written to it could have gotten corrupted somehow, especially when I cloned the drive. But as I said, I could be wrong.

EDIT: So I found this: "As most of you know, whenever you shut down your system, the contents of the memory (RAM) are automatically lost due to the loss of power. But when it comes to the pagefile, the content stays intact unless Windows removes them. This makes it possible for others to probe for data in the pagefile. "


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## Regeneration (Jan 14, 2019)

trparky said:


> OK, this may seem like a really dumb question but wouldn't the page file be rebuilt every time you reboot the system? Think about it, when you reboot the system you're essentially starting out with a clean memory slate. Any and all stuff in memory is wiped out so what is in the page file is useless. Right?



Not by default to quicken shutdown time. Where data security is crucial, registry entry ClearPageFileAtShutdown can be used to force pagefile cleanup at shutdown. But rebuilding the pagefile will tear down SSDs more quickly, slow down boot and shutdown time. Full disk encryption is a better option.


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## trparky (Jan 14, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> Not by default to quicken shutdown time. Where data security is crucial, registry entry ClearPageFileAtShutdown can be used to force pagefile cleanup at shutdown. But rebuilding the pagefile will tear down SSDs more quickly, slow down boot and shutdown time. Full disk encryption is a better option.


I didn't think about that. That makes sense.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 14, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> To be honest I know very little about this, but I figured since it is a file that is being written to it could have gotten corrupted somehow, especially when I cloned the drive. But as I said, I could be wrong.
> 
> EDIT: So I found this: "As most of you know, whenever you shut down your system, the contents of the memory (RAM) are automatically lost due to the loss of power. But when it comes to the pagefile, the content stays intact unless Windows removes them. This makes it possible for others to probe for data in the pagefile. "




I would say it's imperative for critical items to be cleared out of the paging file. There is a command and windows that you enable via either Group Policy editor or the registry and it will delete the paging file on shut down every single time. Minor warning is that Windows might take a little bit longer to shut shutdown and startup.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 15, 2019)

trparky said:


> OK, this may seem like a really dumb question but wouldn't the page file be rebuilt every time you reboot the system?


Yes. While the file itself may stay on the disk, the priority of the data within it is reset every time you reboot - or even as you keep using Windows and open and close programs. For example, if you use Word and Windows stuffs data about Word in the PF, it that data is not going to stay as a priority if you close Word and move on to other tasks. Windows is smarter than that. The PF is there as part of the "virtual memory" the OS uses for "high priority" data. If Word is closed, that data is no longer high priority and it will be replaced, if the space is needed for newer, high priority data.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 15, 2019)

Well, this now got even weirder. I just got a BSOD again, but now its QUOTA_UNDERFLOW. 

This is the exact text from WhoCrashed:

*On Tue 15.1.2019. 9:01:57 your computer crashed or a problem was reported*
crash dump file: C:\Windows\MEMORY.DMP
This was probably caused by the following module: Unknown (0x000000000BFCCDF7) 
Bugcheck code: 0x21 (0xFFFFFA800884A510, 0x2, 0xC000071, 0xBFCCDF7)
Error: QUOTA_UNDERFLOW
Bug check description: This indicates that quota charges have been mishandled by returning more quota to a particular block than was previously charged. 
A third party driver was identified as the probable root cause of this system error. 
Google query: QUOTA_UNDERFLOW

I think I'll have to nuke this from orbit. It just keeps happening so randomly. Googling the module number that apparently caused the issue returns nothing so I can't even troubleshoot this.


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## silentbogo (Jan 15, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> Googling the module number that apparently caused the issue returns nothing so I can't even troubleshoot this.


1) replace memory with known working sticks
2) Run memtest86 (or at least mdsched if you manage to boot into windows)
3) Check HDD for defects (use Victoria HDD, do a full surface scan)
4) If nothing helped - replace the MoBo.
Since your previous BSODs were also related to system memory and you did not install any new drivers recently, it's safe to assume that it's not a software problem.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 15, 2019)

silentbogo said:


> 1) replace memory with known working sticks
> 2) Run memtest86 (or at least mdsched if you manage to boot into windows)
> 3) Check HDD for defects (use Victoria HDD, do a full surface scan)
> 4) If nothing helped - replace the MoBo.
> Since your previous BSODs were also related to system memory and you did not install any new drivers recently, it's safe to assume that it's not a software problem.


I mean the computer works great up to that point, Word, AutoCAD, Inventor, games, everything works, and then it just crashes, and not regularly.
Will have to source some new sticks for no.1. I ran memtest86 but I'll run it again for good measure and after that will check the HDD.
This is all so baffling, especially since I can't look up the module that causes these issues. I'm having more and more doubts about a bad HDD clone.


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## silentbogo (Jan 15, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> I'm having more and more doubt about a bad HDD clone.


Did you clone the drive from a PC with different arch, or was it just the storage upgrade on this PC?


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## IceScreamer (Jan 15, 2019)

silentbogo said:


> Did you clone the drive from a PC with different arch, or was it just the storage upgrade on this PC?


It was the same PC as this one, I cloned my old WD 160GB to this new WD 1TB drive, and the only hardware change was a CPU upgrade from i3 2100 to i5 2400, and a CPU cooler upgrade, but that was a while ago.


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## Regeneration (Jan 15, 2019)

Can you upload the dump file?


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## IceScreamer (Jan 15, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> Can you upload the dump file?


I was going to but it's a MEMORY.DMP file, 500MB in size. I mean I could but not till afternoon.


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## Regeneration (Jan 15, 2019)

Well, it seems you know what you're doing. My guesses are bad driver, bad cloning, bad memory, or bad HDD.

Scan the drive for errors (surface scan), scan the memory, try a fresh OS installation (complete re-partition). Make sure the BIOS/UEFI is updated and configured properly.

If you cloned from another PC (even with same hardware), it is possible for drivers to misbehave. Reinstall all drivers.

Look at the bright side, the BSOD code has changed, that's an improvement.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 15, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> Well, it seems you know what you're doing. My guesses are bad driver, bad cloning, bad memory, or bad HDD.
> 
> Scan the drive for errors (surface scan), scan the memory, try a fresh OS installation (complete re-partition). Make sure the BIOS/UEFI is updated and configured properly.
> 
> ...


Yup, I just did another memtest86 scan, this time with the latest version, still no errors. About to do an HDD surface scan too. If that shows no errors then I'll try to use the PC as little as possible, only for the necessary stuff till I get a reasonable time window to reinstall the OS and download all my software. Thanks again for the help.


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## trparky (Jan 15, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> Yup, I just did another memtest86 scan, this time with the latest version, still no errors.


How long did you run it for? I'd suggest running it for no less than 24 hours.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 15, 2019)

trparky said:


> How long did you run it for? I'd suggest running it for no less than 24 hours.


This version does 4 runs on it's own, lasts about 2-3 hours. Previous one I ran for 12 I think, also no errors.
HDD surface scan also showed no errors.


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## Regeneration (Jan 15, 2019)

First uninstall ALL drivers and reinstall them.

I assume your previous HDD was SATA2, and the new one is SATA3.

Try a new SATA cable and then try using the secondary SATA controller.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 15, 2019)

Id get a fresh drive, no os at all, fresh OS, not image, test if it crashes then its probably ram


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## IceScreamer (Jan 15, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> First uninstall ALL drivers and reinstall them.
> 
> I assume your previous HDD was SATA2, and the new one is SATA3.
> 
> Try a new SATA cable and then try using the secondary SATA controller.


Tried a different cable, will change the SATA port.



eidairaman1 said:


> Id get a fresh drive, no os at all, fresh OS, not image, test if it crashes then its probably ram


I can't get a new drive tho I will reinstall the OS as soon as I can.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 15, 2019)

Not from a image either


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## IceScreamer (Jan 15, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> Not from a image either


Yea, I might actually install W10 finally.


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## trparky (Jan 15, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> Yea, I might actually install W10 finally.


If all else fails, nuke the system from orbit and repave it.


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## Regeneration (Jan 18, 2019)

I had a similar issue couple of years ago before the SSD revolution.

Stable system throwing memory-related BSODs after HDD upgrade.

In that case, it was the advanced power management (APM) kicking in after a second of idle.

I disabled both AAM and APM with CrystalDiskInfo and it stopped.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 18, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> I had a similar issue couple of years ago before the SSD revolution.
> 
> Stable system throwing memory-related BSODs after HDD upgrade.
> 
> ...


Thing is, could that happen while the system is using data, as in not idle? Because I never entered a room and got a BSOD while the desktop is idle, it's always during usage. Just yesterday it happened again, right in the middle of playing a game. I removed one of the sticks for now so I'll see what happens, but this is driving me insane, RAM shows no errors whatsoever during testing.


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## Regeneration (Jan 18, 2019)

The system isn't constantly reading/writing data to the HDD.

It was a 1TB Samsung HDD used as a OS drive.

I remember some WD Green 1TB drive that gave me trouble because of a brutal idle timer.

Try to disable AAM/APM/WDIDLE, set the controller to AHCI, and update RST driver to the latest version.

Try to contact WD and see if is there any firmware update for that HDD.

And please post a screenshot of the S.M.A.R.T. data.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 18, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> The system isn't constantly reading/writing data to the HDD.
> 
> It was a 1TB Samsung HDD used as a OS drive.
> 
> ...


I did a verifier.exe run, and it detected a driver fault. Checked with each stick of RAM in the same slot, 2 times to make sure. The driver at fault is tcpipreg.sys. Now to find out how to fix/update that.

The SMART data is ok, screenshot is down below, setting the controller to AHCI causes a BSOD because the installation was in IDE and changing it requires messing with regedit and I don't really want to.


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## Regeneration (Jan 18, 2019)

tcpipreg.sys is a known false positive in Driver Verifier.

If you want to check the OS files, use 'sfc /scannow' and then view the log: findstr /c:"[SR]" %windir%\Logs\CBS\CBS.log >"%userprofile%\Desktop\sfcdetails.txt"

Intel RST sometimes solves compatibility issues with storage devices, consider using AHCI.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 18, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> tcpipreg.sys is a known false positive in Driver Verifier.
> 
> If you want to check the OS files, use 'sfc /scannow' and then view the log: findstr /c:"[SR]" %windir%\Logs\CBS\CBS.log >"%userprofile%\Desktop\sfcdetails.txt"
> 
> Intel RST sometimes solves compatibility issues with storage devices, consider using AHCI.


I just followed this fix https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...pipreg-sys-following-a-reboot-after-driver-ve
Now I'll continue using it as standard and see what's gonna happen. I did sfc /scannnow a couple of times already and it reports no errors/missing files/corrupted files. I will think about switching to AHCI.


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## er557 (Jan 18, 2019)

switch to AHCI, it's fairly easy with a small registry change. After which, you might consider going the other route and change storage controllers driver to standart microsoft ata controller, built-in in windows 10. It's very stable and fast; , also if not installed, i would then hold off on intel rst, as it changes storage driver to intel's own, with few benefits if any.


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## Regeneration (Jan 18, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> I just followed this fix https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...pipreg-sys-following-a-reboot-after-driver-ve
> Now I'll continue using it as standard and see what's gonna happen. I did sfc /scannnow a couple of times already and it reports no errors/missing files/corrupted files. I will think about switching to AHCI.



Check the SFC log manually, sometimes it won't report corrupt files.


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## er557 (Jan 18, 2019)

In OP's place, I would go as far as upgrading the OS to latest insider build, they usually are more advanced and sometimes even more stable, also every single driver and major application on the pc must be upgraded to latest version, such as anti virus, any resident tray apps, etc.
Also, I would try to unclutter the system as much as possible, using autoruns to disable any services and startup items that are not absolutely necessary.
As mentioned, one of the easiest diagnostics is to install LTSB version of windows in dual boot on another partition, and check that for problems, rather than mess with the crippled system.


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## Assimilator (Jan 18, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> setting the controller to AHCI causes a BSOD because the installation was in IDE and changing it requires messing with regedit and I don't really want to



There is no registry editing required in Win10, just typing (or rather copy/pasting) a couple of commands into Command Prompt and rebooting a few times: http://support.thinkcritical.com/kb/articles/switch-windows-10-from-raid-ide-to-ahci

You are losing out on a lot of performance with IDE mode and switching it is so easy that why you wouldn't is beyond me. JUST DO IT!


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## IceScreamer (Jan 18, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> Check the SFC log manually, sometimes it won't report corrupt files.


I will check that next, thanks.


er557 said:


> In OP's place, I would go as far as upgrading the OS to latest insider build, they usually are more advanced and sometimes even more stable, also every single driver and major application on the pc must be upgraded to latest version, such as anti virus, any resident tray apps, etc.
> Also, I would try to unclutter the system as much as possible, using autoruns to disable any services and startup items that are not absolutely necessary.
> As mentioned, one of the easiest diagnostics is to install LTSB version of windows in dual boot on another partition, and check that for problems, rather than mess with the crippled system.


All programs and drivers are on their latest versions, and the system is running as lean as possible. OS reinstall is currently out of question as I am in the middle of projects and I have to use the crippled system as is, and redownloading software would take too much on my connection.


Assimilator said:


> There is no registry editing required in Win10, just typing (or rather copy/pasting) a couple of commands into Command Prompt and rebooting a few times: http://support.thinkcritical.com/kb/articles/switch-windows-10-from-raid-ide-to-ahci
> 
> You are losing out on a lot of performance with IDE mode and switching it is so easy that why you wouldn't is beyond me. JUST DO IT!


I am on W7 currently.


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## Regeneration (Jan 18, 2019)

NCQ improves performance on HDDs but it requires the controller to be in AHCI mode.

Just a small registry change is required for Windows 7.


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## er557 (Jan 18, 2019)

I assume chances are, if you in-place upgrade your OS from win 7 to win 10, as recent as possible, the issue will be resolved. You dont need to lose any projects, you can image the OS drive beforehand, and regardless, after the upgrade your files and settings should be intact as well.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 18, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> NCQ improves performance on HDDs but it requires the controller to be in AHCI mode.
> 
> Just a small registry change is required for Windows 7.


I'll edit that after I test this as is, just to find the root of the problem.


er557 said:


> I assume chances are, if you in-place upgrade your OS from win 7 to win 10, as recent as possible, the issue will be resolved. You dont need to lose any projects, you can image the OS drive beforehand, and regardless, after the upgrade your files and settings should be intact as well.


Eh, I did an update for a friend, from 7 to 10, and it didn't go as planned. The same software I'm using, Autodesk Inventor, outright stopped working on 10 after the upgrade, so I'm a bit wary of in place upgrades.


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## er557 (Jan 18, 2019)

So do capture an image of the drive, so you can revert if any breaking issues appear, with say Macrium Reflect. Your software can always be reinstalled or repaired, without affecting projects. you can also export it's settings to a config file.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 27, 2019)

Sorry for the late answer, but it crashed again, on a fresh W10 install on an SSD, so it's a hardware problem it seems. I don't know my next course of action.


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## Regeneration (Jan 27, 2019)

What is the error code?


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## silentbogo (Jan 27, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> Sorry for the late answer, but it crashed again, on a fresh W10 install on an SSD, so it's a hardware problem it seems. I don't know my next course of action.


I've already outlined it for you earlier:
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/bsod-memory_management.251481/post-3976220
Proceed to next steps, like checking your PC with 100% working RAM, or if that still causes BSODs - replacing motherboard.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 27, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> What is the error code?







silentbogo said:


> I've already outlined it for you earlier:
> https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/bsod-memory_management.251481/post-3976220
> Proceed to next steps, like checking your PC with 100% working RAM, or if that still causes BSODs - replacing motherboard.


I know you did and I appreciate it, I'm trying to source some new sticks, motherboard will be a different issue altogether. Also, a quick question, could this possibly be caused by the PSU?


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## silentbogo (Jan 27, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> Also, a quick question, could this possibly be caused by the PSU?


It could. That's why you need to test it component by component. Haven't dealt with FSP Hexa. Reviews are OK, but imaginary wattage and 80+ ratings always make me sceptical.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 27, 2019)

silentbogo said:


> It could. That's why you need to test it component by component. Haven't dealt with FSP Hexa. Reviews are OK, but imaginary wattage and 80+ ratings always make me sceptical.


I replaced the PSU for now, as soon as I get my hands on some memory stick I'll check on that.


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## Regeneration (Jan 27, 2019)

1. Take off the CMOS battery.
2. Re-seat the CPU and check the pins aren't bent.
3. Take off the memory and clean it and the socket.
4. Put the CMOS battery back.
5. Load default BIOS configuration.
6. Use AIDA64 to read the RAM's SPD information, and enter timing manually in the BIOS.
7. Make sure DDR, IMC, cache voltages are set correctly.
8. Some motherboards change the memory RTL value on reboot. Try to set RTL manually.
9. If there is a RAM turbo feature in BIOS, try to disable it.
10. Try to increase DDR voltage from 1.5v to 1.52v.

Use MemTest64 and Prime95 blend to test for stability. But long runs, if a single memory chip is failing, it will take time to catch it.


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## Shambles1980 (Jan 27, 2019)

try and loosen the memory timings and run at lower ram speeds.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 27, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> 1. Take off the CMOS battery.
> 2. Re-seat the CPU and check the pins aren't bent.
> 3. Take off the memory and clean it and the socket.
> 4. Put the CMOS battery back.
> ...


I actually did exactly all that, apart form the CPU re-seat, will have to try that as well. All the voltages and timings are correct, will try to loosen them up a bit or adding a bit of voltage. The BIOS does have the memory turbo/normal option and that was the first thing I changed and it gave a BSOD on both options.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 27, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> I replaced the PSU for now, as soon as I get my hands on some memory stick I'll check on that.


Hold on! One step at a time. You replaced the PSU. Wait and see if that fixed your problem before testing, removing, replacing, reseating, increasing, loosening or changing anything else.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 27, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Hold on! One step at a time. You replaced the PSU. Wait and see if that fixed your problem before testing, removing, replacing, reseating, increasing, loosening or changing anything else.


Of course, I really wanna get to the bottom of this, I'll wait and see if this fixes it, and if it doesn't, move forward. Problem is, I can't seem to force the BSOD, everything worked fine on W10 for a couple of days and this morning it just crashed randomly while browsing the internet.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 27, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> Problem is, I can't seem to force the BSOD


Duplicating a problem "at will" is always a desired goal when troubleshooting any problem. If you can duplicate it "at will", then you typically can easily (or more easily) isolate the fault, and repair or replace the offender. That's why troubleshooting intermittent problems are the most difficult. 

But that is also why you must take one step at a time. If you do several things at once, and it fixes the problem, you will not know what step fixed the problem - in other words, you don't learn how to prevent recurrence in the future, or how to fix it should you encounter it again (on this machine or another).


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## IceScreamer (Jan 27, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Duplicating a problem "at will" is always a desired goal when troubleshooting any problem. If you can duplicate it "at will", then you typically can easily (or more easily) isolate the fault, and repair or replace the offender. That's why troubleshooting intermittent problems are the most difficult.
> 
> But that is also why you must take one step at a time. If you do several things at once, and it fixes the problem, you will not know what step fixed the problem - in other words, you don't learn how to prevent recurrence in the future, or how to fix it should you encounter it again (on this machine or another).


I know that, but with the things they are now, this is a waiting game, my BSODs can sometimes be weeks apart from what I've gathered.


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## Bill_Bright (Jan 27, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> but with the things they are now, this is a waiting game


Exactly! So "_Patience, Young Grasshopper!_" One step at a time. 

I must also point that BSODs weeks apart may be totally unrelated to each other too! And of course, in that time frame, it is likely Windows and perhaps drivers and other programs will be updated too - that ends up resolving the problem without you ever know what was wrong.


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## Regeneration (Jan 28, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> I actually did exactly all that, apart form the CPU re-seat, will have to try that as well. All the voltages and timings are correct, will try to loosen them up a bit or adding a bit of voltage. The BIOS does have the memory turbo/normal option and that was the first thing I changed and it gave a BSOD on both options.



Gigabyte X58 motherboards used to set extreme RTL values time to time causing memory corruption. The trick was to add +5 to RTL for each channel.


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## ArbitraryAffection (Jan 28, 2019)

This might be completely unrelated but I'mma put it here anyway just in case. A while ago I was getting almost constant BSODs playing Fallout 4 with MEMORY_MANAGEMENT on my PC. I had 2600X and Vega 56 at the time. It was all at stock so I assumed it was windows or the game being derpy. I thought nothing of it but now its stopped.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 28, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> Gigabyte X58 motherboards used to set extreme RTL values time to time causing memory corruption. The trick was to add +5 to RTL for each channel.


I can't seem to find the RTL option to modify.


ArbitraryAffection said:


> This might be completely unrelated but I'mma put it here anyway just in case. A while ago I was getting almost constant BSODs playing Fallout 4 with MEMORY_MANAGEMENT on my PC. I had 2600X and Vega 56 at the time. It was all at stock so I assumed it was windows or the game being derpy. I thought nothing of it but now its stopped.


Maybe that happens to me too, but I'd rather find out what's wrong tbh.


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## Regeneration (Jan 28, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> I can't seem to find the RTL option to modify.
> 
> Maybe that happens to me too, but I'd rather find out what's wrong tbh.



It's in RAM timing. RTL or round trip latency. Gigabyte has a secret hotkey (CTRL+F1) for advanced options.


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## IceScreamer (Jan 28, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> It's in RAM timing. RTL or round trip latency. Gigabyte has a secret hotkey (CTRL+F1) for advanced options.


Noted, will check after testing with the current change.


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## Regeneration (Jan 28, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> Noted, will check after testing with the current change.



Sorry for the mistake, but it was B2B Cas Delay causing memory corruption on old Gigabyte boards.

Errors from B2B appear fast and random per boot session. You'll need to boot to MemTest86, give it a few seconds, and reboot to MemTest86 again.


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## IceScreamer (Feb 1, 2019)

So the PSU change didn't help, still got a BSOD. 
It kept bugging me why did the BSODs start on the day they did, December 10th, so I dug around the logs and whatnot and surprsingly found nothing, no software installed or updated around that time. But, I was scrolling through my local ebay-like site messages and noticed that right around that time (a day before) I sold the Cooler Master AIO and replaced it with my current air cooler. 
That cooler has a mounting system that could possibly be overightnened, and I figured it could cause these issues. So I just took everything apart, re-seated the CPU and the cooler and made sure to tighten everything just enough, so now I wait again. Also checked for bent pins and found nothing out of order.


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## er557 (Feb 1, 2019)

It could be a start of a faulty mobo, might wanna dig a bit in that direction.


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## IceScreamer (Feb 1, 2019)

er557 said:


> It could be a start of a faulty mobo, might wanna dig a bit in that direction.


I hope not, if it gives a BSOD after this the only thing left is new memory stick which I finally got. I'll wait and see.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Typically mem management bsods relate to the ram, after that cpu and mobo


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## IceScreamer (Feb 1, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> Typically mem management bsods relate to the ram, after that cpu and mobo


I know, I mean it's in the name and all. I've done day long tests in memtest86, various versions, with both sticks and different combinations and no errors whatsoever.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 1, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> I know, I mean it's in the name and all. I've done day long tests in memtest86, various versions, with both sticks and different combinations and no errors whatsoever.



I ran into that on DDR1 on my 462 platform, I just happened to kill a module or 2...


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## IceScreamer (Feb 12, 2019)

Just to update on the situation, been more than a week and no crashes whatsoever. Seems the cooler refitting did the job. I'm guessing over tightening the mounting system messed something up the first time, looks ok now.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 12, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> Just to update on the situation, been more than a week and no crashes whatsoever. Seems the cooler refitting did the job. I'm guessing over tightening the mounting system messed something up the first time, looks ok now.



Yeah board warpage can cause a partial contact connection-possible arcing too.


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## trparky (Feb 12, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> over tightening the mounting system


On the processor and heatsink/fan assembly?


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 12, 2019)

trparky said:


> On the processor and heatsink/fan assembly?


I have seen this but it was many many years ago. These days, modern mounting mechanisms, like the quarter-turn locking screws, prevent over-tightening so not sure why it still gets mentioned.


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## IceScreamer (Feb 12, 2019)

trparky said:


> On the processor and heatsink/fan assembly?


Yea, the cooler has to be tightened to the plastic ring that is mounted on the board itself, by phillips screws, and you gotta do it by feel so I probably overdid it the first time.


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 12, 2019)

Wow. I don't see where you stated the brand and model of this cooler - so we can avoid it! No doubt, ensuring the mounting mechanism is securely fastened is important to ensure sufficient and even pressure is applied atop the CPU (and socket). But it seems some technology to prevent over tightening (and/or stripping of the screw hole too) would be easy to implement.


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## IceScreamer (Feb 12, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Wow. I don't see where you stated the brand and model of this cooler - so we can avoid it! No doubt, ensuring the mounting mechanism is securely fastened is important to ensure sufficient and even pressure is applied atop the CPU (and socket). But it seems some technology to prevent over tightening (and/or stripping of the screw hole too) would be easy to implement.


I figured since it's in my system specs I did not need to explicitly say it. The cooler itself is rather good, but yea, the mounting system is leaving a lot to be desired.


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 12, 2019)

IceScreamer said:


> I figured since it's in my system specs I did not need to explicitly say it.


Sorry - I don't normally pay attention to those system specs since many people have more than one computer, or are helping someone else with their computers.

In looking at the picture now, my worries are relieved because I see the ring you mention mounts to the motherboard with 1/4 turn screws. So it is not likely uneven or excess pressure will be applied to the motherboard, processor or socket.


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## IceScreamer (Feb 12, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Sorry - I don't normally pay attention to those system specs since many people have more than one computer, or are helping someone else with their computers.
> 
> In looking at the picture now, my worries are relieved because I see the ring you mention mounts to the motherboard with 1/4 turn screws. So it is not likely uneven or excess pressure will be applied to the motherboard, processor or socket.


Actually, those are not screws. The way this mounting system works is as follows:
- you place the plastic ring on the motherboard and push through the hollow plastic sockets in the motherboard holes
- after that, you insert and push 4 pins through the plastic sockets on the mounting ring, securing the ring in place
- you mount the cooler and place the metal cooler clips over the plastic notches on the plastic ring that is mounted on the board
- this is the step that I might have messed up, after mounting the clips you tighten 2 phillips screws on each side of the cooler, tightening the cooler in the process, from what I've seen there is no limit on how much you can tighten them (apart from the thread length)

My guess, as @eidairaman1 pointed out, is that the board might have warped enough and contact was made where it shouldn't have.

In any case, it appears that the problem is solved and I learned my lesson, tight enough.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 13, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Wow. I don't see where you stated the brand and model of this cooler - so we can avoid it! No doubt, ensuring the mounting mechanism is securely fastened is important to ensure sufficient and even pressure is applied atop the CPU (and socket). But it seems some technology to prevent over tightening (and/or stripping of the screw hole too) would be easy to implement.



Bill you could say the same about my cooler too, when I first put it on I warped my board initially but before putting in the case I backed it off to unwarp the board, im so glad i did not crack the socket, contacts, grounds, traces or broke some smds when I did that.


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## IceScreamer (Feb 13, 2019)

Scratch everything and anything I said, it happened again.

I'll just take it outside and burn it.


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## er557 (Feb 13, 2019)

i would try to trade in each hardware piece in that pc, building another from scratch, as the only route to give you piece of mind


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## IceScreamer (Feb 13, 2019)

er557 said:


> i would try to trade in each hardware piece in that pc, building another from scratch, as the only route to give you piece of mind


I would, gladly, but not knowing what component is faulty is like selling mines wrapped as candy. 

I really don't know what I'll do, I guess I'll just splurge on a budget laptop and be done with it.


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## er557 (Feb 13, 2019)

did you google web threads with this error and possible workarounds? it could be a faulty driver


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## IceScreamer (Feb 13, 2019)

er557 said:


> did you google web threads with this error and possible workarounds? it could be a faulty driver


It was the first thing I did, all of them point to the kernel and that means that the driver is not recognized. It was supposed to be something to do with tcpipsys but it did nothing. All the codes I googled return nothing, like no results at all.


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## er557 (Feb 13, 2019)

what about trying windows 19h2 skip ahead as a radical solution? worth a shot and sometimes more stable than retail, it should release in a few days


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## IceScreamer (Feb 13, 2019)

er557 said:


> what about trying windows 19h2 skip ahead as a radical solution? worth a shot and sometimes more stable than retail, it should release in a few days


Already did, on a new drive, also got a blue screen.

I did every single test that I could think of, new windows on a new drive, every single driver install/reinstall, HDD surface tests, PSU change, memtests with one/two sticks and in different slot combinations, driver verifier check, with and without modifiers, IDE to AHCI switch. I don't know if I missed something but this thing is really giving me a headache.


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## er557 (Feb 13, 2019)

any auto optimization/ subtle overclocking in bios disabled?


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## IceScreamer (Feb 13, 2019)

er557 said:


> any auto optimization/ subtle overclocking in bios disabled?


That too, CMOS reset, defaults, any and all startup programs removed.


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## Regeneration (Feb 13, 2019)

What error codes in the BSODs are you getting?


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## IceScreamer (Feb 13, 2019)

I already posted the dumps in the OP but this is the most common one:

*On Wed 13.2.2019. 15:44:19 your computer crashed or a problem was reported*
crash dump file: C:\Windows\MEMORY.DMP
This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!PoUnregisterSystemState+0x22FD) 
Bugcheck code: 0x1A (0x41790, 0xFFFFFA800051A6E0, 0xFFFF, 0x0)
Error: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT
Bug check description: This indicates that a severe memory management error occurred. A page table page has been corrupted. 
This might be a case of memory corruption. This may be because of a hardware issue such as faulty RAM, overheating (thermal issue) or because of a buggy driver. This problem might also be caused because of overheating (thermal issue). 
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.


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## Regeneration (Feb 13, 2019)

You might have some rogue device on the 3.3v rail causing interference. Some fan perhaps. Disable automatic fan speed.

It's possible your motherboard sometimes sets aggressive B2B/RTL/channel timing. Plug a USB/DVD with MemTest86, set it as 1st boot device, run for a minute and then reboot/shutdown. Repeat 20 times.


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 13, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> Bill you could say the same about my cooler too, when I first put it on I warped my board initially


Yeah, uneven stress is always applied during initial mounting. It is like tightening the lug nuts on a car wheel. You should slowly tighten in a criss-cross pattern and not round in a circle. 

I was talking about the use of screws to mount to the motherboard. Typically there are 4 pins you push through the board, then do a 1/4 turn to lock them in place. Yes, until all 4 are locked place, uneven stress occurs. But it should not be enough to cause an over-tightening situation, or permanent damage. That's what I was getting at. 

I have seen where mounting plates are attached with small nuts and bolts (not screws). And care must be taken to avoid uneven stress or over tightening. But I have never found that to be a problem. What I have done in the past is apply a small drop of Loctite Purple to lock the nut in place, keep it from vibrating loose over time, but not bond it so strongly you cannot easily break it loose when needed. Note the "purple" series is the lowest strength in terms of bonding strenght. You can go blue, but I do not recommend red for these tiny nuts as it may take too much force to break the bond. 

Another friend/tech just uses a touch of hot-glue. It works.


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## IceScreamer (Feb 13, 2019)

Regeneration said:


> You might have some rogue device on the 3.3v rail causing interference. Some fan perhaps. Disable automatic fan speed.
> 
> It's possible your motherboard sometimes sets aggressive B2B/RTL. Plug a USB/DVD with MemTest86, set it as 1st boot device, run for a minute and then reboot/shutdown. Repeat it 20 times.


Hmm, now that you mention it, something power related could be it, and not due to the PSU (which I changed). I mean, the crashes started when I changed the cooler, and now it's clear it's not due to the possible board warp but maybe the fan or the auto-control of it?

I'll have some free time soon so I'll try these out.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 13, 2019)

Bill_Bright said:


> Yeah, uneven stress is always applied during initial mounting. It is like tightening the lug nuts on a car wheel. You should slowly tighten in a criss-cross pattern and not round in a circle.
> 
> I was talking about the use of screws to mount to the motherboard. Typically there are 4 pins you push through the board, then do a 1/4 turn to lock them in place. Yes, until all 4 are locked place, uneven stress occurs. But it should not be enough to cause an over-tightening situation, or permanent damage. That's what I was getting at.
> 
> ...



Bill i know about x pattern mounting, that didnt stop it from happening, i was overzealous.


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## Bill_Bright (Feb 13, 2019)

eidairaman1 said:


> i was overzealous.


LOL! Been there, done that!


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## Zahran14 (Nov 19, 2020)

I have same same problems with x570 master and ryzen 9 5950x - i did almost every thing you did and nothing worked also tried 4 different ram brands. I am returning the motherboard now and i will test my ram in my friend pc if it works i get a new motherboard asus or msi - not dealing with gigabyte


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