# Artic Silver, or something else....??



## Rickkins (May 4, 2018)

Ok, maybe a silly question, but for years I've always used AS for my thermal paste.

I seem to be out, so I simply used what came on my heatsink with my 7-2700.

The results are higher than I might have anticipated. So,n I wondering what is the current "best", so to speak.


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## AsRock (May 4, 2018)

I come to trust MX-4 personally, the difference is small i do believe just that i have used to for so many years it's never let me down.


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## Rickkins (May 4, 2018)

I seem to be ranging from 34°C to 54°C

I suppose I figure the idle should definitely be lower....


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## newtekie1 (May 4, 2018)

It is hard to outright pick a "best". 

If temps are all you are concerned about, then Liquid Metal is your choice.  However, Liquid Metal has a lot of draw backs, it is hard to apply, it is conductive, and it eats aluminium.

After that, most of the "well known" pastes perform pretty close to eachother, with the temperature difference only being 2-3°C.  So it is largely going to come down to personal preference.  A lot of people still swear by AS5, and while it still performs well, it too has some issue that other pastes don't.  Noctua NT-H1 and Arctic MX-4 are probably two of the most popular ones, because they both perform very well, are easy to apply, and are relatively inexpensive. Thermal Grizzle Kryonaut is probably the pest performer right now(outside of liquid metal), but it is stupid expensive, IMO, and not worth it.  The IC Diamond pastes perform very well too, but again are a little expensive, and given the issues that we've seen on these forums, as well as the customer service response to those issue, I really recommend people avoid their products.

Me personally, I use MX-4 because I bought a huge tube of it and it will probably last me a life time.



Rickkins said:


> I seem to be ranging from 34°C to 54°C
> 
> I suppose I figure the idle should definitely be lower....



If you are talking about the Wraith Spire, then the problem isn't the thermal paste, it's the heatsink.  It's shit.


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## Rickkins (May 4, 2018)

Yea, it is the Wraith spire.

Guess maybe I'll look at a different cooler , down the road...

Thanks guys...


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## RejZoR (May 4, 2018)

Thermal Grizzly solutions are highly praised lately. I still have some MX-4 in my drawer. Have re-applied it on many components and devices and it was always better than factory stuff. Makes you wonder what a difference Grizzly stuff would make...


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## Jetster (May 4, 2018)

Between all the *major* players there is very little difference.  If you are not skilled in placement of paste may I suggest a non electrically conductive one


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## newtekie1 (May 4, 2018)

RejZoR said:


> Thermal Grizzly solutions are highly praised lately. I still have some MX-4 in my drawer. Have re-applied it on many components and devices and it was always better than factory stuff. Makes you wonder what a difference Grizzly stuff would make...



Not a whole lot, Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut is only about 1.5°C better than MX-4.


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## RejZoR (May 4, 2018)

It has a red calipers effect. You may think it's only 1.5°C, but it's actually 15°C.


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## cucker tarlson (May 4, 2018)

You mean 34 idle and 54 full load ? That's a good range. I suspect your idle is higher either cause of ambient temps,the cpu not being completely idle or voltages in idle higher than recommended. 
If your cpu is only 54 degrees in full load then you don't have any problem with the cooler or paste.


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## Bill_Bright (May 4, 2018)

The two most important points are (1) use TIM (thermal interface material) and (2) apply it properly. And note proper application includes thoroughly cleaning the mating surfaces before applying a fresh, new, super thin but thorough layer of TIM. 

I agree with Jetster. Between the major makers, there is little difference. And if you "need" the few degrees going with the best may provide to keep your system stable and away from the thresholds where thermal protection features [hopefully] kick in, then you have bigger problems than your choice of TIM. You need to be looking at case cooling or ensure your CPU cooler's fan spins properly. 

A couple other points. Some TIMs take some time to thoroughly "cure" and reach peak efficiency. This time depends on time itself, and the number of power (heat up and cool down) cycles and may result in a few degrees improvement. 

Keeping our processors properly cooled is critically essential but cooler does not necessarily mean better. That is, as long as you keep the temps comfortably within the processor's normal operating range, that's fine. For example, running a CPU at 30°C does NOT improve performance, stability, or longevity over running the CPU at 50°C.


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## Bones (May 4, 2018)

I've been running AS5 Ceramique for years now in both everyday and benching setups and it's worked fine. Also use it because I'm always reTIM'ing stuff and it's cheap, that works out for me.
TX4 is good stuff and even TX2 is good, currently have TX2 in my current setup for daily use now and it's doing just fine.

I can't add much to what's been said about other things except I won't use anything with diamond dust in it, while it does work it WILL scratch up a cooler's mounting surface with impunity. Noctua NT-H1 is really good stuff too but again there really isn't alot of difference between them all for real world use.

It's when you're going for world records (Like I do at times) you'd notice a difference between them and most of use here just aren't doing that.

I'd suggest what many have said to use, namely TX4 and be done with it.


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## INSTG8R (May 4, 2018)

Was an AS5 and Ceramique user for years but now it’s MX-4. Like Newtekie I have a big tube so I’m set “for life” it’s great paste and much easier to work compared to those others.


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## FreedomEclipse (May 4, 2018)

If you really need to spend cash Prolimatech PK-3 is better than mx-4 and it doesn't cost over the top either


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## LightningJR (May 4, 2018)

Yep, I would say go for whatever you can find on sale as long as it's a well known brand. I would say Noctua's paste is great top tier performer and top tier price same goes with Prolimatech's stuff. MX-4 is a great paste for a middle of the ground price and AC Ceramique as the bulk order  I have myself a large syringe of the stuff I use on random things. I use the tiny Noctua paste that came with my NH-D15 on things I want the absolute lowest temp I can get. But there's probably only 5C between them all.

The best of the best is obviously LM.


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## eidairaman1 (May 4, 2018)

Ive had good luck with AS5 and MX4, so either will do fine.


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## Tomgang (May 5, 2018)

Used Artic Silver 5 before, but my new favorite is thermal grizzly kryonaut. That is one of the apselute top class pate out there, but price are also there after.


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## jboydgolfer (May 5, 2018)

Arctic Silver
Noctua NT-H1
Phobyia HE Grease
Gelid GC extreme

Or any of the others you might find when googling top TIM.  I personally like the ones above, but just about anything will work, even OEM prepacked syringe's ,like you get fron dell, HP, etc.  just don't use liquid metals,  its senseless to take a risk with TIM travel ,for less than 3°C possible improvement over traditional pastes.


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## Athlonite (May 5, 2018)

I've also been an AS5 user for years if you're comfortable using it then just get more you know how it goes on and how it cures and how it performs why change just for the sake of change sometimes the known quantity is the best


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## Rickkins (May 5, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> *Dont be stupid with Bios flashing your video cards*



Yanno, I never even knew that one could flash their video card bios....


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## jboydgolfer (May 5, 2018)

Rickkins said:


> Yanno, I never even knew that one could flash their video card bios....



oddly enough, thats often the same truth of people who flash theyre VGA bios', often the same day they discover it too.


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## hat (May 5, 2018)

MX-4 is my choice. It's easy to apply, clean up, performs well and isn't electrically conducive.

Supposedly kryonaut performs better, but I'm not sure if it's electrically conducive or not.


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## xkm1948 (May 5, 2018)

MX-4 was OK.

I used Noctua NT-H1 and it has been pretty good. For my most recent assembly I switched to Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut. Knocked down temp even more compared to NT-H1.

Personally I recommend either NT-H1 or Kyronaut






https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-comparison,5108-9.html


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## Bill_Bright (May 5, 2018)

That's 3° difference from worst to best. As noted above, if you "need" those 3° to prevent thermal stability issues, you have other problems besides your choice of TIM you need to deal with first. 

The only real reason those 3° sould matter is for bragging rights only.


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## newtekie1 (May 5, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> That's 3° difference from worst to best. As noted above, if you "need" those 3° to prevent thermal stability issues, you have other problems besides your choice of TIM you need to deal with first.
> 
> The only real reason those 3° sould matter is for bragging rights only.



Yep, and only 2° between Kryonaut and MX4. And for the cost of a tiny tube of Kryonaut, you can get a literal lifetime supply of MX4.


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## xkm1948 (May 5, 2018)

newtekie1 said:


> Yep, and only 2° between Kryonaut and MX4. And for the cost of a tiny tube of Kryonaut, you can get a literal lifetime supply of MX4.



If you are a hardware tester then ya getting the cheaper stuff and use it forever. For regular folks who don't apply thermal paste every week getting premium stuff is well worth it.


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## newtekie1 (May 5, 2018)

xkm1948 said:


> If you are a hardware tester then ya getting the cheaper stuff and use it forever. For regular folks who don't apply thermal paste every week getting premium stuff is well worth it.



No, it's really not.  2°C is not worth a dime extra.


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## hat (May 5, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> That's 3° difference from worst to best. As noted above, if you "need" those 3° to prevent thermal stability issues, you have other problems besides your choice of TIM you need to deal with first.
> 
> The only real reason those 3° sould matter is for bragging rights only.


Gotta admit I agree with you there. 3c won't realistically help you. Personally I believe if you're in the market for paste and the price doesn't bother you, it won't hurt to go for the best, but it's not going to help you overclock any more or solve any heat issues that another paste couldn't.


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## Bones (May 5, 2018)

newtekie1 said:


> Yep, and only 2° between Kryonaut and MX4. And for the cost of a tiny tube of Kryonaut, you can get a literal lifetime supply of MX4.



Ceramique is probrably the cheapest of the bunch by volume, I have 4 big tubes of it and all that was less than you'd think.
It's good for when doing as I do, testing and running different chips all the time plus it does work well for setups you'd normally leave alone. I've used NT-H1 for sub-zero before and it did the job, it's clearly useable for LN2 use if you're doing that.

In fact I'd suggest a paste like NT-H1 or Kryonaut for LN2 use, for DICE Ceramique does well enough I use it for that but it's not suitable for LN2 mainly due to problems with TIM cracking once it gets so cold. 

All TIMs have the potential for that problem, Gelid GC, NT-H1 or Kryonaut would be what I'd run for LN2 use - Can't say if TX4 would work but it's certainly possible.


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## newtekie1 (May 5, 2018)

Bones said:


> Ceramique is probrably the cheapest of the bunch by volume, I have 4 big tubes of it and all that was less than you'd think.



I've got a huge tube of AS Alumina at work, it was like $5.  It still performs extremely well, and is easily enough for re-pasting customer computers(still better than the stock TIM).


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## Bones (May 5, 2018)

The current price of what I have as of this post is $6.90 from the egg for a 25 gram tube (Ceramique).
All I can say is it's cheap and a tube even with my use lasts for awhile - I won't have to buy any for a year or more at least if I use it correctly.


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## MrGenius (May 5, 2018)

Cheap out on TIM? Why? Pretty much the cheapest "part" you can buy for your build. Does it _really_ need to be cheaper, and/or less effective, for some stupid/penny-pinching reason? But go ahead and buy the cheap stuff that doesn't work as good. Then buy yourself a cheeseburger with the money you saved.


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## xkm1948 (May 6, 2018)

MrGenius said:


> Cheap out on TIM? Why? Pretty much the cheapest "part" you can buy for your build. Does it _really_ need to be cheaper, and/or less effective, for some stupid/penny-pinching reason? But go ahead and buy the cheap stuff that doesn't work as good. Then buy yourself a cheeseburger with the money you saved.




Exactly. It is not like you are applying and removing thermal paste every day. I just don't get why people cheap out on such things. Sure you can even put tooth paste on there, cost nothing.


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## MIRTAZAPINE (May 6, 2018)

Thermal paste reviews are usually not quite a good guide without explaining the methodology it is test for. The production batch of a thermal paste also would affect the result if you compared with different sites.

I remember a few years back the best thermal paste review I found was from the site skineelabs, it is no longer around now. It was a great site, if I am not wrong each thermal paste test was done 5 times at least. That means after a long test, it would be dismantled and a new paste would be remounted. The results would be averaged out. Their tested on an overclock i7 980x if i recalled right. I don't know how much patience it take to do a full that much.

I also learned that the "best" thermal paste depended on how good a contact your cpu have with your heatsink. Heatsink or cpu can be concave or convex and depending on the situation resulting in poor contact where both surfaces are not touching each other well. Skinnee also tested each thermal paste with "poor contact", "good contact" and "excellent contact". For poor contact use very thick thermal paste like shinetsu worked very well, their pretty much like a thermal pad in a tube. Good contact on Shinetsu paste result in better temperature though the change is not as major as it is design well for contact errors.

Artic Silver 5 on the other hand performed poorly at poor contact and temperature improvement took a big jump upon going to good contact and excellent. Even for then Artic silver 5 was already outclassed by better thermal paste then like Shinetsu and then MX2 before MX4. The best then was the Prolimatech PK1 test by Skinnee which is almost as forgiving for poor contact like shinetsu and perform better than it in good contact.

I am personally using the NT-H1 as that is what my cooler comes with. I would go with the MX4 or PK3 if I run out on my noctua paste.


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## Bill_Bright (May 6, 2018)

xkm1948 said:


> If you are a hardware tester then ya getting the cheaper stuff and use it forever. For regular folks who don't apply thermal paste every week getting premium stuff is well worth it.


More like the other way around. 

It is okay if your TIM dries out once it has been applied. The solids that remain behind are still occupying the microscopic pits and valleys in the mating surfaces, preventing insulating air from getting in. It is important to note the ONLY reason TIM comes in a liquid format is so it can be squeezed out of the tube and spread evenly over the processor die. Once properly applied, it is okay if the liquid materials dry out.

Once you open the tube, the contents of that tube can start to dry out. You might then risk squeezing little bits of solid TIM on your processor die, preventing a smooth distribution across the TIM that would be bad. 

So IMO, if you test hardware, or do repairs or builds for a living, buying the TIM in quantities that are likely to be consumed before drying out makes sense. Buying a tube of the premium TIM that, once opened, may sit on a shelf for a couple years does not make sense. 

Now if planning to mount a cooler then pull it off  a 1/2 hour later, sure! No need to waste the expensive TIM. But unless you are doing extreme overclocking, the one time or infrequent user does not need the expensive stuff either.


MIRTAZAPINE said:


> The production batch of a thermal paste also would affect the result if you compared with different sites.


If the quality of TIM varied that much from batch to batch, then that suggests very poor quality control - NOT typical of any major brand. 

As for concave or convex, not really buying that these days. Manufacturing techniques today are such that those type curvature defects don't happen. This is why "lapping" is no longer, or at least rarely ever done by computer enthusiasts anymore. The heatsink and CPU mating surfaces already are flat enough to ensure maximum "metal to metal" contact which provides the most efficient transfer of heat.

Instead, TIM is needed to fill those microscopic pits and valleys in the mating surfaces and no more. Any excess TIM is actually in the way and counterproductive to that most efficient transfer of heat - regardless how good the TIM is.


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## Solaris17 (May 6, 2018)

Rickkins said:


> I seem to be ranging from 34°C to 54°C
> 
> I suppose I figure the idle should definitely be lower....



Actually, in my experience idle temps only generally drop of the previous application was really bad or it was just time in general. Again from my experience the gain in thermal pastes is seen at load temps.


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## Bill_Bright (May 6, 2018)

Solaris17 said:


> Actually, in my experience idle temps only generally drop of the previous application was really bad or it was just time in general.


In my experience, when users see any significant drop in idle temperatures after replacing TIM, the previous application was done improperly as you noted, or while in the process of replacing the TIM, the user also cleaned the heatsink and case interior of heat trapping dust.

And again, TIM does not need to be replaced just because X amount of time has passed. NOT ONE TIM maker, CPU maker, GPU maker, motherboard or computer maker, or cooler maker recommends regular TIM replacement just because X amount of time passed. NOT ONE!


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## Solaris17 (May 6, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> And again, TIM does not need to be replaced just because X amount of time has passed. NOT ONE TIM maker, CPU maker, GPU maker, motherboard or computer maker, or cooler maker recommends regular TIM replacement just because X amount of time passed. NOT ONE!



That is certain, I guess I should clarify my definitions of "bad" and "overtime" In reality and I am assuming here that you quantify any thermal wear over time to be a bad application, and you would be right. I however take that same stance and just split it between two families. Bad applications (heat degradation over time via drying) and terrible applications (IE thermal application within the span of a year that drives a user to replace there TIM) both of which I believe are conditions of "bad applications" (again im assuming this is what you quantify a bad application as being (heat degradation over time due to drying)) I just take that and split it into two groups.


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## Bill_Bright (May 6, 2018)

Solaris17 said:


> In reality and I am assuming here that you quantify any thermal wear over time to be a bad application,


Ummm, no I don't. I don't accept there is such a thing as "thermal wear" that, to any significant point, affects cooling. If there was a bad application, it would be apparent at the first power up.


Solaris17 said:


> (heat degradation over time via drying)


 It would seem you did not read my comments above about drying. It does not matter if your TIM dries out once properly applied. The solids (which are the heat transferring components of TIM) left behind are still there doing their job.  See my post #35 above. See also: The Heatsink Guide and note where it says (my *bold* added), 





> Thermal compound normally does not get hard, it will stay sticky for years. But depending on the solvents used in the making of the compound, it may dry over the years. This is not a reason to worry; it will still do its job when dry, and *there is no reason to replace dried thermal compound*.



You keep trying to throw time into the equation when it does not apply! Again, show one TIM, motherboard, computer, processor, or cooler maker who says time is a factor! NOT ONE does.

It is true that over time, the efficiency of some TIMs (depending on formula) may degrade a few degrees. But again if a few degrees puts the processor temps over the threshold causing stability issues, you have greater issues to deal with - likely case cooling. Because the temps never should have been that close to the threshold in the first place.

It is important to note that it is the case's responsibility to provide an adequate supply of cool air flowing through the case. And of course, it is the computer designer and user who are responsible for setting up proper case cooling. 

The CPU cooler need only toss up the CPU's heat into that air flow. Of course, if the ambient (room) temp is excessive, no amount of air flow from fans, or heat transfer through heat sinks will help. But hopefully users are not using their computers in 100°F environments.

Ironically, I have found one of the most common causes for the cured bond between the CPU and heatsink to break is users over-twisting the heatsink to see if the cured bond is broken! 

Rough handling during transport is another cause - especially with tall and heavy, vertically oriented coolers that "hang" off the motherboards in tower cases.


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## Solaris17 (May 6, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Ummm, no I don't. I don't accept there is such a thing as "thermal wear" that, to any significant point, affects cooling. If there was a bad application, it would be apparent at the first power up.
> It would seem you did not read my comments above about drying. It does not matter if your TIM dries out once properly applied. The solids (which are the heat transferring components of TIM) left behind are still there doing their job.  See my post #35 above. See also: The Heatsink Guide and note where it says (my *bold* added),
> 
> You keep trying to throw time into the equation when it does not apply! Again, show one TIM, motherboard, computer, processor, or cooler maker who says time is a factor! NOT ONE does.
> ...



ah yup your right we certainly dont agree on this subject at all.


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## Bill_Bright (May 6, 2018)

Then please, show us show one TIM, motherboard, computer, processor, or cooler maker who says TIM needs to be replaced just because X amount of time has elapsed. I've been a certified electronics technician since 1971. I have never seen any tech manual, white paper, TIM maker data sheet, or component maker who requires it. I maintained "mission critical" air traffic control radio and navigational aides systems for the US military for many years and never saw any TIM that "went bad", even in systems over 10 years old. I've been maintaining PCs since before the IBM PC came out never saw where any maker required it. 

So please, show us one - just one!


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## xkm1948 (May 6, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Then please, show us show one TIM, motherboard, computer, processor, or cooler maker who says TIM needs to be replaced just because X amount of time has elapsed. I've been a certified electronics technician since 1971. I have never seen any tech manual, white paper, TIM maker data sheet, or component maker who requires it. I maintained "mission critical" air traffic control radio and navigational aides systems for the US military for many years and never saw any TIM that "went bad", even in systems over 10 years old. I've been maintaining PCs since before the IBM PC came out never saw where any maker required it.
> 
> So please, show us one - just one!




Yep. Thermal paste does NOT need to be constantly re-applied. Which is why I go with the premium stuff. Apply once and good for a long time.

Also OP should look at these themal pads. Pretty awesome.


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## Solaris17 (May 6, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Then please, show us show one TIM, motherboard, computer, processor, or cooler maker who says TIM needs to be replaced just because X amount of time has elapsed. I've been a certified electronics technician since 1971. I have never seen any tech manual, white paper, TIM maker data sheet, or component maker who requires it. I maintained "mission critical" air traffic control radio and navigational aides systems for the US military for many years and never saw any TIM that "went bad", even in systems over 10 years old. I've been maintaining PCs since before the IBM PC came out never saw where any maker required it.
> 
> So please, show us one - just one!



None of those qualifications mean jack shit and expertise from that period in time means nothing to modern day computing. I am not being accusatory, I just don't believe you. And no you personally wont be able to convince me. Sorry, but thermal paste is supposed to be viscous by nature if it dries out (for whatever reason bad application, by nature etc) I would need someone qualified to tell me that doesn't affect it. You don't hold those credentials. I never once even said you were wrong, you just attacked my opinion (which I clearly defined as such), I don't have the burden of truth here. and you don't hold the credentials to tell me otherwise. We don't need to agree sorry.


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## Bill_Bright (May 6, 2018)

Those pads are interesting. Not sure I would go with the reusable part though - mainly because it might get contaminated with dirt and dust if exposed. I guess they can be cleaned.



Solaris17 said:


> And no you personally wont be able to convince me.


Then I ask one more time, show us one TIM, motherboard, computer, processor, or cooler maker who says TIM needs to be replaced just because X amount of time has elapsed. The fact you can't should tell even you something. And note I did provide a link so you would not have to believe me.

For the record, the way an electron or heat flows through a conductor work the same way it did 50 years ago. Modern day electronics is no different. If anything, TIM has improved.



Solaris17 said:


> I never once even said you were wrong


No, just that you don't believe me. Not sure there is a distinction. 

As far as my credential, I disagree. And you can follow the link in my sig to see if I might know a little bit about how electronics and its proper cooling works. 

But again - DON'T BELIEVE ME! Believe the makers! 

Why wouldn't AS or MX or whoever say their TIM needs regular replacing if it needed it? They would not want their users to claim it failed on them. And it would mean more sales.


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## MrGenius (May 6, 2018)

Those pads are totally reusable. But they're shit because they're too thick. So despite having very high thermal conductivity properties, they aren't any more effective than low/mid grade pastes.

On the lapping thing. It's still quite common. And for good reason. The IHS on a CPU comes from the factory with a slight concavity, with high points at the 4 corners. Every one I've ever seen. Leading me to a strong conclusion that it's an intended design feature. I imagine it helps eliminate TIM pump out. And moves more of the clamping load to the 4 corners, likely for improved stability and clamping load retention. Anyway, *IF* lapping the IHS is becoming less common these days, it's only because you can buy custom solid copper IHSs for many modern CPUs these days. That are relatively cheap, and milled perfectly flat and smooth. So just buying one of those to use instead is far more convenient. I wish they were available the last time I lapped an IHS. I would definitely have sprung for one, instead of going through the hassle of lapping the one I had.

https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/copper-ihs-for-lga-1150
https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/products/copper-ihs-for-lga-1150-1151

Oh, and even though I agree with you, but just to play Devil's Advocate, here's your one.


> The DimasTech® Thermal Grease HTX-EE the latest high-level for gamers, modders and Enthusiast, is able to meet the needs of a wide range of applications, intended for the hobbyist to' the Extreme Overclocker who  uses non-conventional cooling like as a phase change or LN2 / Dry ice, a field whichDimasTech has been dedicated to. The DimasTech® Thermal Grease HTX-EE is not electrically conductive and *has a long life*, *being able performance for 2 years without any maintenance*.


http://www.dimastechusa.com/dimastech-thermal-grease-htx-ee-heat-transfer-extreme-enthusiast-edition


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## Bones (May 6, 2018)

I have to say I've ran into the dried out TIM thing before and yes, it was the cause in at least a few cases of a machine running hotter than it should have.
Note with these machines it was the cheaper, older factory style TIM used in things like a Dell or HP.

This is an example I ran into sometime ago.
After blowing out the fans and making sure they were working in the first place tests showed the system running very warm to hot and this was observed with the readings obtanied in the BIOS of the board - Not claiming these readings as being 100% accurate but instead, using it as a reference to determine the amount of temp change if any. From my initial observation blowing dust bunnies out the cooling fan only changed it by about 7 - 10C or so from the original/baseline reading I saw but there was a change.

After removing the cooler and seeing what was there I cleaned it up and applied fresh TIM only to the cooler and CPU, the TIM itself being a stock type of stuff, nothing fancy.
After reassembly I started the machine and noted a further drop of temps, by about an addtional 12 - 16C from what I originally saw before any cleaning of the fan(s) was done.
Maybe not a monster difference but it was there.

Also note the age of the TIM used vs what's available today, clearly things are better than from when that stuff was applied.
I will say in addition not every TIM I"ve ever seen HAS to still be in a fluidic/paste-like state to work, an example I've seen in the past is TX2.... It will eventually dry out to a grey, chalky/plastic like substance yet it still works fine.
The liquid part of many TIM's I've seen is for making the stuff apply correctly across a given surface(s), not for helping with the actual act of passing heat along.

So... There is credence to BOTH sides of the arguement but it's really based on what TIM you are using, when it was actually made (Per exact ingredient formula used at the time of manufacture ) and the like.


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## LightningJR (May 6, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> It is okay if your TIM dries out once it has been applied. The solids that remain behind are still occupying the microscopic pits and valleys in the mating surfaces, preventing insulating air from getting in. It is important to note the ONLY reason TIM comes in a liquid format is so it can be squeezed out of the tube and spread evenly over the processor die. Once properly applied, it is okay if the liquid materials dry out.



I have no idea if drying out changes thermal resistance of the paste or not, I am not a chemist and neither are you (afaik). So I wont comment on it since I don't know.

What I will say is I wouldn't buy a TIM that dries out a lot. Move your PC one time and the possibility of the heatsink to move and the TIM to crack leaving gaps is high not to mention if you just work on your PC and hit you HS/F by mistake and the same can happen. If a TIM does dry out a lot then imo it's a design flaw and can introduce issues that a slimy  TIM just wouldn't have.


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## AsRock (May 6, 2018)

FreedomEclipse said:


> If you really need to spend cash Prolimatech PK-3 is better than mx-4 and it doesn't cost over the top either



Maybe you shop some were else but for me Prolimatech PK-3 cost around $7 for 1.5g were as MX-4 costs about $7 for 4g


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## LightningJR (May 7, 2018)

AsRock said:


> Maybe you shop some were else but for me Prolimatech PK-3 cost around $7 for 1.5g were as MX-4 costs about $7 for 4g



Yeah this is true, where you live matters. Here in Canada Prolimatech's stuff is difficult to get. On Newegg Canada a 5G tube of PK1 is $36 with $15 shipping. A 20G tube of MX-4 is (regular price, it's on sale $5 off atm) $25 with $6 shipping. So yeah where I live there's no point in getting the PK1 stuff..


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## Valantar (May 7, 2018)

Ever since I ran out of Gelid GC Extreme last year, I've been using this gargantuan syringe of TG Kryonaut. Both are a good viscosity, easy to apply, spread well, and are easy to clean off. Not really expensive either. The huge syringe of Kryonaut cost a bit, but that's 'cause it's huge. The only drawback is that I don't need the "spreader" applicator that comes with the Kryonaut, which leaves me squeezing paste out of the rather large screw mount for the applicator. Perfect for rice grain size applications, though!


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## FreedomEclipse (May 7, 2018)

AsRock said:


> Maybe you shop some were else but for me Prolimatech PK-3 cost around $7 for 1.5g were as MX-4 costs about $7 for 4g



Well when i bought mine, the price sat in the middle between MX-4 and GC-Extreme. Temps were closer to the GC-Extreme and i fancied a change from MX-4 so i bought a tube of PK-3.

I absolutely agree that the MX-4 is an absolute no brainer given its its price/performance ratio and its non conductive and spreads like toothpaste too!


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## Nuckles56 (May 7, 2018)

The  only time I see something like the kryonaut being worthwhile is in a laptop that runs near Tj all the time, and then those 2 degrees are probably actually worth it over something cheaper. They were in the case of my laptop which would run at 96 C on the CPU (prior to repasting with PK-3) when rendering or gaming due the the GPU and CPU sharing heat pipes, having it run 3 C cooler with the PK-3 vs some cooler master crap that I'd used previously meant that the laptop stopped throttling all the timeand was a lot more pleasant to use for gaming especially


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## John Naylor (May 7, 2018)

I don't get the 3C doesn't matter logic as a cooler that does 3C better can cost ya an extra $60.

As for AS5, I do not recommend it for two reasons ... the reasons the manufacturer gives us on their web site;

http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm



> Not Electrically Conductive: Arctic Silver 5 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity.  (While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 5 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is very slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems  if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.)
> 
> Important Reminder: Due to the unique shape and sizes of the particles in Arctic Silver 5's conductive matrix, it will take a up to 200 hours and several thermal cycles to achieve maximum particle to particle thermal conduction and for the heatsink to CPU interface to reach maximum conductivity.  (This period will be longer in a system without a fan on the heatsink or with a low speed fan on the heatsink.) On systems measuring actual internal core temperatures via the CPU's internal diode, the measured temperature will often drop 2C to 5C over this "break-in" period. This break-in will occur during the normal use of the computer as long as the computer is turned off from time to time and the interface is allowed to cool to room temperature. Once the break-in is complete, the computer can be left on if desired.



Other than the Liquid Metal Typew the top of the line Grizzly product (not their 2nd thru 4th tier products) comes out on top in most tests but it runs $30 or so and with limited availability, i don't often feel the need to go there.   On the other hand, Shin Etsu G751 matches AS5s thermal properties but with none of AS5s capacitance and curing issues.  If building a box for someone, they usually don't want to wait 3 weeks till the TIM cures.  Until it does, it's not possible to set up that "Day 1" baseline to serve as a base point to monitor thermal performance over time.  It also costs between $3 and $4 a tube so.... not a bad price to pay for a top notch product.  

https://archive.benchmarkreviews.co...k=view&id=150&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=12

https://www.directron.com/g751.html...MIpMeqwLfy2gIVEweGCh3V7AVyEAYYAiABEgK4qvD_BwE


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## MrGenius (May 7, 2018)

John Naylor said:


> I don't get the 3C doesn't matter logic as a cooler that does 3C better can cost ya an extra $60.


Because...*cheeseburger bro!* I'm not going to rob myself of a Big Kahuna Burger just so my GPU/CPU can be 3°C cooler. I mean come on. Is it really worth it?


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## hat (May 7, 2018)

Eh, both sides have a point. It's not a bad thing to pay a little more for the best, especially when you're not going to be replacing it often... but the difference isn't really going to help you much, either.

You can get a huge 65g tube of MX-2 for less than an 11.1g tube of kryonaut on newegg. MX-2 is just an older version of MX-4, it's mostly just as good.


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## Athlonite (May 7, 2018)

John Naylor said:


> I don't get the 3C doesn't matter logic as a cooler that does 3C better can cost ya an extra $60.
> 
> As for AS5, I do not recommend it for two reasons ... the reasons the manufacturer gives us on their web site;
> 
> ...



I've used AS5 for years now it's easy to apply in a very thin coat so no chance of bleed out or accidental contact of other electrical components if you were to put the whole 3.5g tube on your IHS then your an idiot and deserve everything you get as there are literally dozens of how to's for applying thermal paste online AS5 even provide clear instruction on there website as to how to do it so there really isn't an excuse to over do it and screw ya shit up


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## hat (May 7, 2018)

AS5 was good in its day, but there's better performing paste that doesn't carry the hazard of electrical conductivity (usually MX-4).


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## Bones (May 7, 2018)

It's been years since I've ran the original AS5 stuff yet I have a small tube of it here. 
I've been using Ceramique for so long I've found as of late other tubes of stuff I had but forgot about and misplaced, this is where the TX-2 I'm using now in this machine came from. 

Since I have several delidded chips I can't use the original stuff (AS5) with those, Ceramique is fine for that use and as said above MX-4 and even MX-2 can be used.


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## Caring1 (May 7, 2018)

MrGenius said:


>


That's what I tell my missus all the time


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## Athlonite (May 7, 2018)

hat said:


> AS5 was good in its day, but there's better performing paste that doesn't carry the hazard of electrical conductivity (usually MX-4).



It's not electrically conductive it is however mildly capacitative


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## Valantar (May 7, 2018)

My 11g syringe of Kryonaut cost 4.3x what a 4g syringe of MX-4 would have cost, so 1.54x the price per weight. That's borderline negligible for something that is this cheap to begin with. Not to mention that I now won't have to buy thermal paste for a few years, even if I keep repasting all the laptops and other stuff in the house every two years or so.

However, the smaller (5.5g) Kryonaut syringes are noticeably more expensive per weight. That's noteworthy.

Then again, if you're building a budget-constrained PC, you'll likely be fine with the paste that comes with your cooler. I've used the stuff Cooler Master includes with their cheap coolers (TX3 Evo, 212 Evo) several times. It's perfectly fine.

The way I see it, third-party thermal paste is something you buy to get something _better_. Which is worth spending the extra few dollars required on. Of course, you're entirely allowed to disagree with that sentiment


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## Bill_Bright (May 7, 2018)

MrGenius said:


> On the lapping thing. It's still quite common.


I know it is still happening, but it used to be much more common among extreme enthusiasts. That said, it may be because we are not seeing as many hard core enthusiasts. There are some extreme overclockers still around but IMO, the fun and challenge of overclocking is not the same as it was years ago. I go way back on this when motherboard runs had to be cut and jumpers had to be soldered to boards to change voltages/clock speeds. And there was a real adrenaline rush in dealing with the real risk of frying your very expensive CPUs and boards. Today, motherboards even come with easy to use utilities, and there are so many thermal protection routines coded into processors and boards to protect them from thermal damage. So where's the challenge? 

Not to mention, today's processors are already so capable and today's games play so well even on lessor hardware it is very unlikely users will actually (honestly) "see" any performance gains, except in benchmarks.

The thickness of those graphite pads gave me concern too. Not because I felt it was too thick to properly conduct heat - the video demonstration showed us it does that exceptionally well. My concern was the thickness _might_ result on too much force needed to secure the heatsink assembly mounting clamps. 

As far as being a chemist, no, I am not. But this isn't about chemistry.


John Naylor said:


> I don't get the 3C doesn't matter logic


It is more that 3°C shouldn't matter. If your system is running so hot that you need those extra 3°C to prevent stability issues or thermal protection features from kicking in, you really have bigger cooling issues to deal with first as you should NOT be running so close to those thresholds in the first place. 

Proper cooling is absolutely essential. Getting the coolest temps possible is not. Running at 30°C does not offer better performance, better stability, or longer life than running at 55°C.


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## Vario (May 7, 2018)

Has anyone ever actually fried anything with Arctic Silver 5?
I use AS5 because it seems to have the right amount of tackiness so it withstands moving the case and it gives me the same results as NTH-1, PK3, and other pastes I have lying around.  It also seems to last longer, I have had it last upwards of 10 years.  I have used it on videocards as well as CPUs, with good results.  I have actually never noticed the cure phenomenon to be any different from any other paste.




Virtually the same performance as NT-H1.  But from my experience, the NT-H1 seems to thin and pump out after a few thermal cycles.


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## Bill_Bright (May 7, 2018)

Vario said:


> Has anyone ever actually fried anything with Arctic Silver 5?


If something fries, it is only because something else failed - while not common, it can happen. A faulty CPU, for example may fail to shut itself down quickly enough, or fail to throttle back properly if it gets too hot. 

I have seen power transistors in high wattage radio transmitters, audio amplifiers and other power supplies fry (totally "open" electrically) due to heat issues. But thanks to advanced thermal protection features in modern computer components, I have not in many years seen devices actually get destroyed due to heat. The most recent was probably an old 936 CPU socket from years ago that warped due to heat from an overclocked Athlon 64 FX that was run near threshold all the time. The heat itself was not technically excessive but the long constant exposure to high heats in an inadequately cooled case eventually damaged the socket. Took awhile to figure that one out too. If the socket did not look unevenly discolored, we may never have discovered the problem.


Vario said:


> I have actually never noticed the cure phenomenon to be any different from any other paste.


It will typically improve a few (2 - 3) degrees after curing for a couple days or few power (heat up/cool down) cycles. But I agree, I have found it to be really consistent after that. 

It should be noted that fans, including CPU fans, tend to slow down as they age too. I'm just saying there are many reasons for CPUs temps to rise as the computer ages.


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## eidairaman1 (May 8, 2018)

Athlonite said:


> I've used AS5 for years now it's easy to apply in a very thin coat so no chance of bleed out or accidental contact of other electrical components if you were to put the whole 3.5g tube on your IHS then your an idiot and deserve everything you get as there are literally dozens of how to's for applying thermal paste online AS5 even provide clear instruction on there website as to how to do it so there really isn't an excuse to over do it and screw ya shit up



Same here, or MX4, I might get some akasa shinetsu pads for mass system builds lol, great pad there.

I have never shorted out anything with AS5.


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## Komshija (May 8, 2018)

I still see no reason for replacing excellent and price-friendly Arctic MX-4 for some two, three or more times expensive TIM which will lower the temps by 1-2°C.


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## Caelestis (May 8, 2018)




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## Valantar (May 8, 2018)

Caelestis said:


> View attachment 100732


Nice! What CPU (wattage) is that tested on, and with what kind of cooler? Also wonder what the margin of error for that testing is. I wish AnandTech (with their custom variable-wattage hot plate test rig (which isn't vulnerable to a PC's whims in terms of background tasks and throttling)) would do a roundup like this.

It's also worth mentioning that mounting pressure plays a role with high viscosity pastes; they generally work better on LGA than PGA sockets due to the increased mounting pressure specs of these. Not many pastes are actually high viscosity these days, though, but I remember struggling mightily a decade or so ago with some diamond-based (I think) stuff that required soaking the syringe in boiling water before application, and STILL was a pain to even get onto the IHS.

Anyhow: buy what you're willing to pay for and think is easy/convenient to work with. Apparently even thermal adhesive tape is okay eek, though I'd guess that's dependent on the actual wattage and cooler in question.


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## Bill_Bright (May 8, 2018)

Discarding to the two stupid ones in that chart (denture adhesive and toothpaste), it should be noted the worst up there, the CoolerMaster "tape" still achieved 40.2°C which is still a very respectable and "cool" temperature for a "torture test".

I find it disappointing, however, they did not test and include plain, basic, generic and "standard" silicone compound to establish a "baseline".


Valantar said:


> Nice! What CPU (wattage) is that tested on, and with what kind of cooler?


Not sure that matters as this is just a comparison. And while you are right about pressures, that too should not matter because with all liquid format (not pads) TIM, the objective should be to "ONLY" fill the microscopic pits and valleys in the mating surfaces. That means to spread it as thin, but evenly as possible. Not slather it on like grape jelly. The most efficient transfer of heat comes from direct metal to metal contact so the any excess TIM is in the way and counterproductive to the transfer of heat, regardless how effective the TIM is. So as long as it is still spreadable, viscosity should not be a factor when properly applied.



Valantar said:


> Apparently even thermal adhesive tape is okay


No - not really. "Adhesive" TIM should only be used with heatsinks that do not have clamping or fastening mechanisms. That is, where the only way to attach a heatsink is to glue it on top of the processor. Many chipsets are like this. So are VRMs and surface mounted RAM chips. Using adhesive TIM on removable processor could result in damage to the socket and/or processor lid if the heatsink ever needs to be pulled again.


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## Valantar (May 8, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Not sure that matters as this is just a comparison. And while you are right about pressures, that too should not matter because with all liquid format (not pads) TIM, the objective should be to "ONLY" fill the microscopic pits and valleys in the mating surfaces. That means to spread it as thin, but evenly as possible. Not slather it on like grape jelly. The most efficient transfer of heat comes from direct metal to metal contact so the any excess TIM is in the way and counterproductive to the transfer of heat, regardless how effective the TIM is. So as long as it is still spreadable, viscosity should not be a factor when properly applied.


That sounds a bit oversimplified. Pressure matters if you don't spread the TIM yourself ('rice grain' applications and so on. A viscous TIM and low mounting pressure will likely mean less than perfect IHS coverage, which might affect temperatures noticeably. On the other hand, if you spread it manually, getting it thin enough while still covering everything (and not making a mess) is challenging.

As for testing at different temperatures and wattages, this is mainly to rule out heat soak scenarios or chemical compounds susceptible to degradation and thermal runaway. Generally differences here will be fewer than with coolers (which have more variables - contact area, fan speeds, fin area, number of heat pipes, and so on), but some TIMs can react poorly under certain circumstances, or perform better at lower thermal deltas than at higher.



Bill_Bright said:


> No - not really. "Adhesive" TIM should only be used with heatsinks that do not have clamping or fastening mechanisms.


Well, duh  I meant 'okay' as in "didn't overheat". Perhaps not _that_ surprising given that (non-adhesive, but still) thermal pads work on ~100C/4-5-6W heat output 5x5mm VRM components, but still made me blink a bit. Anyone who uses anything adhesive between a component and a removable cooler deserves whatever pain they subject themselves to 

By the way, did any of you catch the recent LTT video with the weird reusable graphite "thermal pad"? Interesting concept, and seems to work surprisingly well, even if it's kind of terrifying putting a sheet of highly conductive material onto your CPU. Then again, it should be clamped tightly in place before turning on the power. At least it'll never dry out!


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## Bill_Bright (May 8, 2018)

Valantar said:


> Pressure matters if you don't spread the TIM yourself


Huh? So you are going to buy TIM and have someone else apply it? If so, they need to know how. And in either case, my point stands. The TIM needs to be spread as thin as possible as it only needs to fill the pits and valleys. 

Oversimplified? Not even! Proper application of TIM is a very simple concept. Thin as possible, but even distribution. And any excess is in the way. It is that simple. 



Valantar said:


> On the other hand, if you spread it manually, getting it thin enough while still covering everything (and not making a mess) is challenging.


No it isn't. Like many things that take careful hand-eye coordination, you may have to practice a couple times, but it is not hard. The hardest part is seeing what you are doing when your own hands are in your way. This is why, when possible, I always mount the heatsink before mounting the motherboard.

For the record, what I do is snip off the end of plastic shaft cotton swab (Q-Tip). Then I bend the cut end over about 1/2 inch in to form a little "hockey stick" applicator. Do NOT go by that grain of rice nonsense. There are 1000s of varieties of all different sizes. Just apply a small dot. And remember it is always easy to add more than to remove excess. You will soon learn how big that dot should be.

If you are making a mess, you used WAY too much!



Valantar said:


> By the way, did any of you catch the recent LTT video


Really? Did you read through this thread before posting? Ummm, clearly not.  See Post #42 and note all the replies about it. 



Valantar said:


> At least it'll never dry out!


----------



## Valantar (May 8, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Huh? So you are going to buy TIM and have someone else apply it? If so, they need to know how. And in either case, my point stands. The TIM needs to be spread as thin as possible as it only needs to fill the pits and valleys.
> 
> Oversimplified? Not even! Proper application of TIM is a very simple concept. Thin as possible, but even distribution. And any excess is in the way. It is that simple.
> 
> ...


You, my friend, need to express yourself more clearly. Are you advocating manually spreading the TIM (as in not only applying a dot, but also actually spreading it out _before _mounting the cooler), or not? You seem to be saying both, and thus we seem to not be understanding each other. Oh, and if you don't understand that "spreading the TIM yourself" is as opposed to applying a dot and letting the cooler spread it, especially in that context, you _really_ need to work on your reading comprehension. Seriously.

For low viscosity pastes, there's zero reason to spread it, as even low mounting pressure on a cooler will spread it sufficiently. There's plenty of data to show this, with all kinds of "how to apply thermal paste" guides, videos and comparisons out there. For GC Extreme and Kryonaut, I've never needed to spread it manually, whether that be in a laptop (extremely low mounting pressure, but also very small surface area on the exposed die) or my Ryzen CPU. Heck, my GF's Threadripper was even covered very well by applying the AMD-recommended X-with-dots-in-between pattern. The flat surface of the cooler will spread it far more evenly than any scraping or spreading could ever. Oh, and if the size difference between various types of rice confuses you, you're overthinking things. The _only_ advantage of spreading before applying the cooler is that you can then scrape off any excess if you're prone to using too much. I've never had that problem.

As to what I called oversimplified, it had nothing to do with application, but rather of your expressed understanding of TIM behaviour under different conditions. Again, reading comprehension. It's nice.

I was reasonably sure I had read the thread, but apparently I missed a series of posts. Oh well. My bad, I suppose? So sorry for bringing it up.


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## peche (May 8, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> If something fries, it is only because something else failed - while not common, it can happen. A faulty CPU, for example may fail to shut itself down quickly enough, or fail to throttle back properly if it gets too hot.



bill he means fried cuz AS5 is electrically conductive, 



Vario said:


> Has anyone ever actually fried anything with Arctic Silver 5?



there was a video on you tube about some tests with AS5 and a fried or shorted board, but by myself i haven't seen anything like that,  despite the paste being electrically conductive...


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## Bill_Bright (May 9, 2018)

Valantar said:


> You, my friend, need to express yourself more clearly.


I would say you do too.

When I apply TIM, I place a dot on the die then I spread it out evenly with my hockey stick spreader, like spreading icing evenly over a cake. Letting pressure from the heatsink mounting mechanism distribute the TIM is not the better way because it does NOT ensure an even spread due to the way the HSF is secured in place by the clamping mechanism from side to side, instead of evenly straight down.


Valantar said:


> The flat surface of the cooler will spread it far more evenly than any scraping or spreading could ever.


No it doesn't. You attach the cooler on one side of the CPU, then apply the pressure to secure the clamp on the other. This causes the force to be applied from one side to the other side instead of straight down evenly.

Pulling the heatsink later easily reveals my way results in a more uniform distribution because it starts out more evenly distributed. Your way is like plopping a few thick blobs of icing on the first (middle) layer of cake, then squishing down on the second layer - from left to right - to spread it out.

But to that, you are right and viscosity would matter if you use the clamping mechanism to apply the distribution pressure. But I am saying it is much better spread it yourself to ensure full and even AND as thin as possible coverage. And for the record, I was taught that method in electronics tech school as part of my formal training as a certified electronic technician.


peche said:


> bill he means fried cuz AS5 is electrically conductive,


 No its not. That's an old false rumor that keeps floating around because people fail to verify facts before repeating them.  While electrical and heat conductivity often go hand in hand, they don't always and don't here.

From Arctic Silver: 





> *Not Electrically Conductive*:
> Arctic Silver 5 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity.


But even if it was conductive, it would only be a problem if the user was not careful and made a mess. Or they applied way too much and a bunch squished out making a mess. And while AS5 is, like many TIMs capacitive, again it only matters if the user is careless when applying and gets it all over the motherboard.



> you _really_ need to work on your reading comprehension. Seriously.


I _really_ can comprehend just fine. What I can't do is read minds. And I avoid, when possible, assuming I know what a poster means since many don't know the jargon or have the expertise. If you had said initially you meant letting pressure from the cooler distribute it, it would have been easy to understand you.


----------



## Athlonite (May 9, 2018)

Once again for those ding dongs who keep saying AS5 is conductive please read carefully *IT IS NOT CONDUCTIVE!!!..* It is however slightly *CAPACITATIVE* which is not the same thing so get it through your thick heads finally *AS5 IS NOT CONDUCTIVE!!!*

sorry for the yelling but needs must when the same BS is peddled over and over again

I will always choose the spread a thin ASF coat over the IHS method over the Dot or grain of rice method everytime I apply AS5 or any other thermal paste for that matter as it
a: does a better job
b: doesn't create waste squeezing out from the sides from applying to much
c: makes it much easier to clean off when you need to


----------



## hat (May 9, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> I would say you do too.
> 
> When I apply TIM, I place a dot on the die then I spread it out evenly with my hockey stick spreader, like spreading icing evenly over a cake. Letting pressure from the heatsink mounting mechanism distribute the TIM is not the better way because it does NOT ensure an even spread due to the way the HSF is secured in place by the clamping mechanism from side to side, instead of evenly straight down.
> No it doesn't. You attach the cooler on one side of the CPU, then apply the pressure to secure the clamp on the other. This causes the force to be applied from one side to the other side instead of straight down evenly.
> ...



Wouldn't your method be prone to inviting lots of little air gaps in between the heatsink and processor, as opposed to just squishing it with the heatsink? I've had better luck with the squishing method in the past.



Athlonite said:


> Once again for those ding dongs who keep saying AS5 is conductive please read carefully *IT IS NOT CONDUCTIVE!!!..* It is however slightly *CAPACITATIVE* which is not the same thing so get it through your thick heads finally *AS5 IS NOT CONDUCTIVE!!!*



Would you mind explaining the difference? Not being a dick, genuinely curious on this.


----------



## Bones (May 9, 2018)

hat said:


> Wouldn't your method be prone to inviting lots of little air gaps in between the heatsink and processor, as opposed to just squishing it with the heatsink? I've had better luck with the squishing method in the past.



The spreading method does in fact create alot of teeny-tiny air pockets, you can do what some have before with a cooler and a piece of glass to see it yourself. I use the drop method with about anything I apply TIM to. 

A tip if you have to TIM a cooler onto a piece that has no mounting brackets is to use a tiny drop of super glue at opposing corners of the cooler when you set it in place. This way you don't have to worry about the cooler getting permentally attached to the chip,  you can still get the cooler off via Acetone. 

As for capacitive vs conductive, I don't care - If it has the ability to pass along or transfer electrical energy (Electrons  ) I won't use it on things I worry about getting damaged such as delidded chips and the like.
This is why I too can say AS5 never hurt anything of mine..... Because it never had the chance to in the first place.


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## eidairaman1 (May 9, 2018)

Bones said:


> The spreading method does in fact create alot of teeny-tiny air pockets, you can do what some have before with a cooler and a piece of glass to see it yourself. I use the drop method with about anything I apply TIM to.
> 
> A tip if you have to TIM a cooler onto a piece that has no mounting brackets is to use a tiny drop of super glue at opposing corners of the cooler when you set it in place. This way you don't have to worry about the cooler getting permentally attached to the chip,  you can still get the cooler off via Acetone.
> 
> ...



Or example mix half AS5 compound with AS epoxy to make a bond that can be removed by normal mechanical load.


----------



## Bones (May 9, 2018)

I was wondering how you'd do that as a mix.... Or if it was even possible to do - Now I know.


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## eidairaman1 (May 9, 2018)

Bones said:


> I was wondering if there wasn't a way to do that - Now I know.



Did it on a M18 GPU (Radeon 9800 256MB R420/R423) for bga ram-put tweakmonster ramsinks on, worked like a charm.


----------



## RejZoR (May 9, 2018)

When in doubt, Artic MX-4. It's still regarded as high performance thermal paste and I'm still using it on everything. Cleaned few laptops and reapplied it, reapplied it on chipset of my former X58 mobo, countless reapplications on my CPU's (even current 5820K speeding at 4.5GHz). It just works and it's super easy to apply. I'm always doing full IHS coverage with flat screwdriver and it's super easy to spread out super thin on IHS. Still have it for few applications and I've had the syringe for several years now lol


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## Athlonite (May 9, 2018)

> Would you mind explaining the difference? Not being a dick, genuinely curious on this.



conductance means an electric current will travel through something easily like a piece of copper wire. This is not the case however with AS5 
capacitative means it will actually store a charge however it's a very small charge according to Arctics website 

but if you don't go getting it all over the place you shouldn't have any problems with it at all


----------



## Zyll Goliat (May 9, 2018)

Interesting comparison check it out:


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## Vario (May 9, 2018)

Athlonite said:


> Once again for those ding dongs who keep saying AS5 is conductive please read carefully *IT IS NOT CONDUCTIVE!!!..* It is however slightly *CAPACITATIVE* which is not the same thing so get it through your thick heads finally *AS5 IS NOT CONDUCTIVE!!!*
> 
> sorry for the yelling but needs must when the same BS is peddled over and over again
> 
> ...


Like you I spread it thin, I use my finger in a baggy.  I have tested dot, grain, line, x, and thin spread and I always get better temperature results spreading AS5 thin.



peche said:


> bill he means fried cuz AS5 is electrically conductive,
> 
> 
> 
> there was a video on you tube about some tests with AS5 and a fried or shorted board, but by myself i haven't seen anything like that,  despite the paste being electrically conductive...



Thats my point, it isn't conductive and it will not fry your equipment.  Not to mention you'd have to be a very clumsy person to squirt it all over your stuff in the first place.  People have been using AS5 for nearly two decades and I have never heard of a single person damaging their equipment with it, besides the idiots that squirt it into the CPU socket or other dumb stuff.


----------



## Bill_Bright (May 9, 2018)

hat said:


> Wouldn't your method be prone to inviting lots of little air gaps in between the heatsink and processor


No. Again, any excess TIM is in the way. So again, make it as thin as possible then there is no worry about air gaps. 

*If careful*, I will assume the "dot and squish" or the "dot and spread" methods are equally effective and from there is it is just a matter of personal preference AS LONG AS thorough and as thin as possible coverage is obtained. All I can say is I've been applying TIM to devices since first taught how in tech school in 1971 - 72 and again several years later when I went back to school for advanced digital training and have had no problems keeping devices properly cooled - in properly cooled cases.

I _suspect_  some makers recommend the "dot and squish" method because it involves less physical contact with ESD sensitive devices. Many who have not been formally trained never heard of ESD or how to prevent it. Many take no ESD precautions when handing ESD sensitive devices like processors and RAM chips.   It personally and professionally bothers me when I see in forums like this, people suggest replacing TIM with no mention of ESD destruction or necessary precautions. 

So my greater concerns (in no particular order) over the method used to apply TIM are (1) that TIM be used, (2) the mating surfaces are properly cleaned first, (3), essential ESD precautions be observed, (4) the TIM is evenly distributed as thin as possible across the whole die surface. And lastly, (5) that misinformation not be spread about TIM; it does not need to be replaced because X amount of time has passed, and if it dries, it is still doing its job.

Debating which application method is better is not worth it. My Ford pickup is better than your Chevy anyways.


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## xkm1948 (May 9, 2018)

I remember always over applying thermal paste for my Athlon XP. Always ended up oozing everywhere due to the lack of IHS. MX-4 or similar stuff were fine those days as well as these days. The way I see it, if you are investing in aftermarket cooling solutions might as well spend a few extra bucks for the best thermal paste. Why cheap out on probably the cheapest part of a build? To each its own I guess.


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## Caring1 (May 10, 2018)

Vario said:


> ..... you'd have to be a very clumsy person to squirt it all over your stuff in the first place.


Or a frog 
He knows who he is


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## R-T-B (May 10, 2018)

Caring1 said:


> Or a frog
> He knows who he is



It deserved what it got.

I now have a guy for these things.  Because I can't be trusted...  but it's a disability.  That means I get free Windows 10, damnit!


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## Jetster (May 11, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> I _suspect_  some makers recommend the "dot and squish" method because it involves less physical contact with ESD sensitive devices. Many who have not been formally trained never heard of ESD or how to prevent it. Many take no ESD precautions when handing ESD sensitive devices like processors and RAM chips.  It personally and professionally bothers me when I see in forums like this, people suggest replacing TIM with no mention of ESD destruction or necessary precautions.



The 'Dot and squish"  actually is Artics Siver's recommendation for all single core Intel CPUs or all dies covered with a heat spreader. Then a thin line on the newer ones then squish. The spread was recommended for exposed dies. Personally its not a big deal, id rather not introduce any contaminants so i just do the squish. As you know the key is just not using too much

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth/int/md/intel_app_method_middle_dot_v1.1.pdf
http://www.arcticsilver.com/intel_application_method.html#

Do NOT spread the line of thermal compound out.  When you place
the heatsink on the top of the metal cap, the line of thermal compound will spread
out like the pink oval pattern on top of the metal cap shown in photo QP4.  Allowing
the mounted heatsink to spread the thermal compound insures proper coverage of
the metal cap, minimizes air bubbles and allows an optimum bond line between the
two  surfaces.


And now a cringe worthy photo


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## eidairaman1 (May 12, 2018)

Jetster said:


> The 'Dot and squish"  actually is Artics Siver's recommendation for all single core Intel CPUs or all dies covered with a heat spreader. Then a thin line on the newer ones then squish. The spread was recommended for exposed dies. Personally its not a big deal, id rather not introduce any contaminants so i just do the squish. As you know the key is just not using too much
> 
> http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth/int/md/intel_app_method_middle_dot_v1.1.pdf
> http://www.arcticsilver.com/intel_application_method.html#
> ...



Been there to clean it up lol.

A good thing that can help keep moisture/contaminants out of a zif skt is dielectric grease


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## Athlonite (May 12, 2018)

Jetster said:


> The 'Dot and squish"  actually is Artics Siver's recommendation for all single core Intel CPUs or all dies covered with a heat spreader. Then a thin line on the newer ones then squish. The spread was recommended for exposed dies. Personally its not a big deal, id rather not introduce any contaminants so i just do the squish. As you know the key is just not using too much
> 
> http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth/int/md/intel_app_method_middle_dot_v1.1.pdf
> http://www.arcticsilver.com/intel_application_method.html#
> ...


the problem I find with their DOT n SQUISH method is incomplete coverage of the IHS leading some parts getting hotter than others hence why I use the spread it thinly regime which has worked for me for years


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## John Naylor (May 12, 2018)

MrGenius said:


> Because...*cheeseburger bro!* I'm not going to rob myself of a Big Kahuna Burger just so my GPU/CPU can be 3°C cooler. I mean come on. Is it really worth it?



When the recommended superior product is cheaper ($4) , what exactly are ya losing ?  By making the switch, not only can ya buy ya burger but "you can get fries witht hat " 

https://archive.benchmarkreviews.co...k=view&id=150&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=12
https://www.directron.com/g751.html...MIybXXqvH_2gIVQR6GCh3opgpwEAYYASABEgItKfD_BwE




Athlonite said:


> I've used AS5 for years now it's easy to apply in a very thin coat so no chance of bleed out or accidental contact of other electrical components if you were to put the whole 3.5g tube on your IHS then your an idiot and deserve everything you get as there are literally dozens of how to's for applying thermal paste online AS5 even provide clear instruction on there website as to how to do it so there really isn't an excuse to over do it and screw ya shit up



So, your advice is pay more to get less ?

Option A  - Buy AS5 for $5, with both *openly admitted* capacitive (risk of electrical problems) and curing can't do final dial in your OCs and set baseline temps for 3 weeks)  issues.

Option B - Pay $4 for Shin Etsu G751 to get the exact same temps with no curing issues and no capacitive issues .    As a system builder for 25 years, I don't want to wait that long and won't take that needless risk, however small it might be.  And yes, I have had user built machines brought in and found TIM on contacts.




Bill_Bright said:


> It is more that 3°C shouldn't matter. If your system is running so hot that you need those extra 3°C to prevent stability issues or thermal protection features from kicking in, you really have bigger cooling issues to deal with first as you should NOT be running so close to those thresholds in the first place.



Again, it's not about having issue with 3C...it's simply about having common sense.  

1.  It's should not about choosing the cheapest, it's about the best bang for the buck.   For example, Shin Etsu G751 is manufactured as an industrial product, unlike most PC oriented concerns that buy from industrial concerns and repackage it as a "PC product" at significant increase in price.   With performance within 0.5C of the best (non liquid metal) TIM on the market.   How much less than $4 does it have to before, the user says "Ohh $4 is way too much, I'll settle for 3C less" ?    Getting that much of a temp reduction from a cooler can cost you $60.

2.  75C is better than 78C, just as 5.0 Ghz is better than 4.9 Ghz ... what logic dictates that you shouldn't choose 5.0 if it comes with 0 downside ?  Same thing, .... when ya paying $4 for a premium TIM, there is no cost downside.

The 3C thing is a red herring.  That choice need never be made.  There's no logic to settling for something that cools 3C less when some of the best products (many mentioned by others in this thread) on the market are less than $5.


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## Athlonite (May 12, 2018)

John Naylor said:


> When the recommended superior product is cheaper ($4) , what exactly are ya losing ?  By making the switch, not only can ya buy ya burger but "you can get fries witht hat "
> 
> https://archive.benchmarkreviews.co...k=view&id=150&Itemid=62&limit=1&limitstart=12
> https://www.directron.com/g751.html...MIybXXqvH_2gIVQR6GCh3opgpwEAYYASABEgItKfD_BwE
> ...




I've tried shinetsu before and it was crap to apply it was thicker than most rednecks and just really horrible shite (probably really old stock coz no one wanted to buy it) so I went back to AS5 and as for your capacitative comment if your in here then you know reasonably well how to and not to apply thermal compound and I don't mind the cure time and it certainly doesn't take 3 bleeding weeks longest I've ever had to wait was 3 days and that was only because I had to be away for a day and a half. So I pay $5 for stuff I know and trust not to let me down I know how it works and I know it's foibles and what sort of temps I'll get when it's cured so you can nay say all you like but I'll stick with AS5 thanks


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## R-T-B (May 16, 2018)

This really is a matter of preference.

I will state however when I do paste on my personal components, I usually do something kinda unusual...

I buy the cheapest white crap paste money can buy.  Right now that's a huge-ass tube of mx-2...

and then (at least for my personal pc), apply TG Conductonaut liquid metal.

Why buy the cheap paste then?  Simple.  When I put the liquid metal on, I coat the edge of whatever the components "border" is with the cheap nonconductive stuff.  I've found the liquid metals seem to have a phobia to conventional paste, and will NEVER run across even a thin layer of it.  It's a safety barrier.  I even used this technique to absolutely cover my Titan XP die with LM with next to zero risk of it running and shorting something...

Just thought I would share.


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## Vario (May 17, 2018)

Athlonite said:


> I've tried shinetsu before and it was crap to apply it was thicker than most rednecks and just really horrible shite (probably really old stock coz no one wanted to buy it) so I went back to AS5 and as for your capacitative comment if your in here then you know reasonably well how to and not to apply thermal compound and I don't mind the cure time and it certainly doesn't take 3 bleeding weeks longest I've ever had to wait was 3 days and that was only because I had to be away for a day and a half. So I pay $5 for stuff I know and trust not to let me down I know how it works and I know it's foibles and what sort of temps I'll get when it's cured so you can nay say all you like but I'll stick with AS5 thanks


Agree on all of that, I had Shin Etsu and it wasn't any better than AS5, but it was harder to apply, I had to pre-warm it.  The result was the same as AS5.  I've never had any cure time observation any different from any other paste.  If it does improve, thats great.  It starts off with the same temps as any other white paste.  I usually leave the heatsink mounted for a few years.


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## eidairaman1 (May 17, 2018)

Athlonite said:


> the problem I find with their DOT n SQUISH method is incomplete coverage of the IHS leading some parts getting hotter than others hence why I use the spread it thinly regime which has worked for me for years



Considering nothing is perfectly flat. I do it that way too


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