# "Not So Fast": Bungie Automatically Bans Destiny 2 PC Players With Overlays



## Raevenlord (Oct 25, 2017)

Urgent message to all would-be Destiny 2 PC players: Bungie has enabled an extremely strict, no holds-barred permanent account-banning system with Destiny 2, which activates so long as you have any kind of application with process hooks / overlay features. This is true for Twitch, Discord, MSI Afterburner, OBS, XSplit, Skype, TeamSpeak, HWMon, AIDA, as well as some hardware vendor overlays such as ASUS Tweak and Corsair Link software, GeForce Experience's FPS counter... The message screen, "Not so Fast", indicates that players have been banned, without forewarning or any further explanation.

There's a meltdown going on in Bungie's official PC Support forums, where most of the threads have been started - and then added to - by banned users. In some cases, users are banned even before entering the character creation screen; some more fortunate ones can even get to thew first three minutes of the intro video. A post from a Bungie Forum moderator didn't do much to instill confidence: "In Destiny there are account restriction and bans,", Bungie moderator "Kellogs" writes. "Restrictions are only temporary but must be waiting out while bans are permanent. Please note that Bungie will not discuss or overturn account restrictions or bans."



 

 

 



It's interesting to note that the same moderator indicated that some apps that might be incompatible with Destiny 2 - read, all of the above - would result in the game not launching, but not on a ban. This seems to be in line with Bungies' terms and conditions on PC overlay support, but nevertheless, hasn't stopped many, many users from calling that claim an outright lie. Apparently, a not insignificant number of users have seen themselves banned, instead of a game application fail to run instance.



 



If you've bought a digital Battle.Net key for the game, and have been banned due to this inexcusable usage of blind banning, you may have some luck in requesting a refund directly from Blizzard support. Users who have bought a physical version fo the game, however, will see their refunds be much less likely.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Rehmanpa (Oct 25, 2017)

What the fuck has this world come to... this is absolutely ridiculous. Guess I know what game I'm not buying (not like I would after the horrible first one)


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## silentbogo (Oct 25, 2017)

Same thing started in Quake Champions not too long ago. It's more lax and bans can be appealed, but the auto-ban system is pretty much the same.
Yet, it took "only" 5 months of complains about aimbot users for ID to finally admit that they have a cheater problem.
Though, it's not as strict and probably has a whitelist for Steam Overlay, NV Shadowplay, Twich, Teamspeak, Afterburner and other popular software, cause so far there were only few complaints from users, who also forgot or refused to mention the exact overlay they were using.

Seems like Bungie went overboard on this anticheat - the game barely came out and there are probably no aimbots or other hacks for this game yet.


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## StrayKAT (Oct 25, 2017)

silentbogo said:


> Seems like Bungie went overboard on this anticheat - the game barely came out and there are probably no aimbots or other hacks for this game yet.



I think overboard is an understatement.. especially considering how it screws people with stuff like Corsair link and the Asus software (AISuite?). It's just bad design. As I said in another thread, they seem to just develop this crap willy nilly and live in their own world where compatability isn't a factor (when it's ALWAYS a factor).


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## Rehmanpa (Oct 25, 2017)

StrayKAT said:


> I think overboard is an understatement.. especially considering how it screws people with stuff like Corsair link and the Asus software (AISuite?). It's just bad design. As I said in another thread, they seem to just develop this crap willy nilly and live in their own world where compatability isn't a factor (when it's ALWAYS a factor).


I'd say it's worse than bad design, it's basically illegal. How can you sell a $60 game and instantly ban someone without even forewarning them about running other programs? Seems illegal to me.


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## natr0n (Oct 25, 2017)

There is gonna be a shitstorm on the horizon.


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## wiak (Oct 25, 2017)

bungie bans overlays, they forgot that everyone has one kind of overlay, steam has one BY default, AMD Relive has it on by default, Geforce ShadowPlay has it by default, Xbox DVR which is built into windows has it

so this is insanely stupid of them to do, they simply wiped most of their fcking player base lol


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## Gmr_Chick (Oct 25, 2017)

Rehmanpa said:


> I'd say it's worse than bad design, it's basically illegal. How can you sell a $60 game and instantly ban someone without even forewarning them about running other programs? Seems illegal to me.



To echo your point, I'd say it's basically illegal, not to mention a very f*&^ed up way of doing things. Cheaters are one thing, but banning somebody who just wants to play the game they spent $60 on, but doesn't know of this crap Bungie is trying to pull? That's just f^&$ed


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## Prima.Vera (Oct 25, 2017)

I think a warning should be issued first like, "please disable your overlay thing and restart the game" would be perfect. But blocking without warning is the most idiotic and cretin thing ever.


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## Bytales (Oct 25, 2017)

I played last night up to Level 7, i believe, then my Internet crashed at about 3 PM CEST. I tried to Launch fraps to see my FPS and it didnt work. Didnt thought much of it though !
Lucky me i wasnt running any "ilegal" applications in the Background.

Anyways, this is messed up. If they are really serious about it, they should have the game not Launch if illegal applications are detected, not permaban accounts if a detection of illegal applications occur.

This is messed up. I cant believe i waited 2 months to Play Destiny 2 only to risk of loosing my account if my wife decides to run an illegal application while i'm away and leave it running.

I guess i'll have to check what applications are running every time i start the game.
This is messed up.

And speaking of this. Is there any way to see my FPS while ingame, since Fraps is not working!

Later EDIT:
They say Teamspeak doesnt work? How about Blizzards built into blizard launcher Team Speaker ? It would be the most idiotic Thing ever for the Blizzard Team speak to create an account ban ! This is an interesting theory since a Player who reportedly tried to Play the game on a new Laptop with nothing but the Windows installed, still got banned.

I hope my account isnt banned when i arrive at home today because i had the nerve to run fraps yesterday.

Man, they Need to fix this sh up ! Im smeling a shit Tornado on the Horizon.


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## StrayKAT (Oct 25, 2017)

Rehmanpa said:


> I'd say it's worse than bad design, it's basically illegal. How can you sell a $60 game and instantly ban someone without even forewarning them about running other programs? Seems illegal to me.



That too. My bad. That's the worst part of it. But I mean tech wise, this was stupidly shortsighted.

I'm not sure how they even came to these decisions. They're not even _trying _to be sensible.


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## Bytales (Oct 25, 2017)

I believe People should gather, and sue Bungie, in a People vs Company process, like they did with nvidia Geforce 970, a Class Action suit its called.
This is basically theft, what they are doing, which is a shame, because i think i will enjoy the game a lot.


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## bug (Oct 25, 2017)

Rehmanpa said:


> What the fuck has this world come to... this is absolutely ridiculous. Guess I know what game I'm not buying (not like I would after the horrible first one)


Nothing out of the ordinary, really. People flock to games that take control out of their hands and puts it in some else's. Some else takes advantage of that. It's not even mildly surprising.


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## Liviu Cojocaru (Oct 25, 2017)

Oh crap this is so messed up, I feel bad for the people trying to play this...this is why I rarely pre-order games


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## AlienIsGOD (Oct 25, 2017)

from 27 minutes ago

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...pc-players-for-using-third-party-applications


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## Th3pwn3r (Oct 25, 2017)

AlienIsGOD said:


> from 27 minutes ago
> 
> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...pc-players-for-using-third-party-applications



Not taking any responsibility either,you can't fix stupid. I'd fire the guy in charge personally.


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## Darmok N Jalad (Oct 25, 2017)

I take it all overlays are banned because a cheater could spoof an innocent overlay to inject his/her cheat? Seems like the game should just alert the user and fail to launch unless the overlay is disabled. It’s certainly a sad state for gaming, but doesn’t this follow the console model fairly closely where any exploit attempt results in a console ban?


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## Mike0409 (Oct 25, 2017)

There's lots of speculation here..  In the IT world lot's of weird "shit" happens.  A zero response from Bungie doesn't mean they aren't listening but it does take time to gather the data and logs behind the reports from incoming players and they need to sort out all the bad eggs, especially if there were some hacks in that.

I can understand the public outcry, but facts need to be found before an actual statement can be issued to the public.  I can bet that no one at Bungie got sleep last night as they scour code and logs to try and find the issue behind this.  Will be interesting to see the facts unfold, as I for one spent a good 2 hours streaming to twitch using Geforce Experience last night before losing power to bad storms. Be interesting to see if I am banned when I get home from work.


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## TheinsanegamerN (Oct 25, 2017)

Man, bungie has fallen so far since the days of halo 3.



Mike0409 said:


> There's lots of speculation here..  In the IT world lot's of weird "shit" happens.  A zero response from Bungie doesn't mean they aren't listening but it does take time to gather the data and logs behind the reports from incoming players and they need to sort out all the bad eggs, especially if there were some hacks in that.
> 
> I can understand the public outcry, but facts need to be found before an actual statement can be issued to the public.  I can bet that no one at Bungie got sleep last night as they scour code and logs to try and find the issue behind this.  Will be interesting to see the facts unfold, as I for one spent a good 2 hours streaming to twitch using Geforce Experience last night before losing power to bad storms. Be interesting to see if I am banned when I get home from work.


OK, that doesnt excuse their, pardon my french, Fucking shittastic PR response. If they were just investigating, they should have said "we are investigating a potential issue and will let you know when developments occur" or something like that. You dont say "We will NOT be discussing or unbanning banned players" because that is  a great way to get your community from 0-100% pissed off and see your sales plummet, and does not indicate any investigation whatsoever, but rather a horribly ignorant AAA mindset that they are above the players. 

This is a rookie PR mistake you expect from an indie dev, not a multi million dollar dev with one of the biggest names of the industry. If a hidden rule is violated, you warn the player, not just ban them from using the $60 piece of software they just bought from you with no recourse. Such behaviour should not be tolerated.

Hopefully someone sues the everlasting hell out of bungie and activision for this.


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## bug (Oct 25, 2017)

Mike0409 said:


> There's lots of speculation here..  In the IT world lot's of weird "shit" happens.  A zero response from Bungie doesn't mean they aren't listening but it does take time to gather the data and logs behind the reports from incoming players and they need to sort out all the bad eggs, especially if there were some hacks in that.
> 
> I can understand the public outcry, but facts need to be found before an actual statement can be issued to the public.  I can bet that no one at Bungie got sleep last night as they scour code and logs to try and find the issue behind this.  Will be interesting to see the facts unfold, as I for one spent a good 2 hours streaming to twitch using Geforce Experience last night before losing power to bad storms. Be interesting to see if I am banned when I get home from work.


I wonder if you'd be so understanding after spending $60 (+tax) only to be greeted with a day 1 ban 
Plus, this would have been easily avoided if Bungie was able to accept that no anti-cheat system is perfect from the start and gave it a few days before starting banning people.


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## CounterZeus (Oct 25, 2017)

Luckily I had no overlays running yesterday. Hopefully I can play tonight without being banned.. I paid €90 for this game


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## Mike0409 (Oct 25, 2017)

bug said:


> I wonder if you'd be so understanding after spending $60 (+tax) only to be greeted with a day 1 ban
> Plus, this would have been easily avoided if Bungie was able to accept that no anti-cheat system is perfect from the start and gave it a few days before starting banning people.



I did spend $60 on the game through battle.net. Now I haven't been banned yet, but doesn't mean it won't happen when I power up tonight! 

I'm not sure if this anti-cheat system was enabled during the Beta and there were no reports at that time of these things happening. There was also posting's on their website about OBS and streaming during that time.

But how are we even sure it's their anti-cheat system that is causing these bans? Issuing hasty responses without facts can be just as bad as not issuing a statement. 

Who know's maybe it is a bad batch of game keys part of hardware bundles, or these keys were stolen and or obtained otherwise and they are scrubbing their system of these bad keys and that results in a ban?


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## RejZoR (Oct 25, 2017)

And yet people just continue to buy stuff from such companies. When will you all learn?

Refund their garbage game en mass. They'll beg you all to come back. And then don't. That will teach the greedy assholes.


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## bug (Oct 25, 2017)

Mike0409 said:


> I did spend $60 on the game through battle.net. Now I haven't been banned yet, but doesn't mean it won't happen when I power up tonight!
> 
> I'm not sure if this anti-cheat system was enabled during the Beta and there were no reports at that time of these things happening. There was also posting's on their website about OBS and streaming during that time.
> 
> ...


I was just saying, they put themselves in a position to issue a statement, I wouldn't cut them any slack over this.
They could have done this analysis prior to starting banning people and then they could have answered any question promptly. But they chose not to.


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## Gasaraki (Oct 25, 2017)

Mike0409 said:


> I did spend $60 on the game through battle.net. Now I haven't been banned yet, but doesn't mean it won't happen when I power up tonight!
> 
> I'm not sure if this anti-cheat system was enabled during the Beta and there were no reports at that time of these things happening. There was also posting's on their website about OBS and streaming during that time.
> 
> ...



It was there in beta. They said no overlays will work or allowed.


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## Mike0409 (Oct 25, 2017)

bug said:


> I was just saying, they put themselves in a position to issue a statement, I wouldn't cut them any slack over this.
> They could have done this analysis prior to starting banning people and then they could have answered any question promptly. But they chose not to.



Hate to say it but a lot of these systems rely on automation.  No company has the staff to review/examine all bans or instances of a ban. They program the system and let it run, or program in a certain set of parameters such as stolen game keys. Then they filter out the mess when people being to report issues.

And analysis on a Day 1 launch? No one is going to be re-active on that, all pro-active responses.  

I'm also reading that bans are being lifted now from a number of users on Bungies forums.


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## Upgrayedd (Oct 25, 2017)

They want you banned so you go buy a 2nd copy. Its that simple. They will say "we told ya so, sorry" and you can't do anything about it except buy another copy. Ez $.


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## Mike0409 (Oct 25, 2017)

Upgrayedd said:


> They want you banned so you go buy a 2nd copy. Its that simple. They will say "we told ya so, sorry" and you can't do anything about it except buy another copy. Ez $.



Except you can do something about it, and there are laws surrounding consumer purchases..  it's called the "Cooling-Off Rule" and allows 72 Hours (3 Days) from purchase to receive a refund.


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## SPLWF (Oct 25, 2017)

Easy fix for this.

Class action lawsuit for the ones who were already banned, etc..

Everyone else should boycott this game and not purchase it AT ALL.

I'll tell my friends and cousins, that's like 10 people right there..spread the word...


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## Prince Valiant (Oct 25, 2017)

It's a shame that games aren't retail anymore. Bungie could learn the very harsh lesson of mass returns.


On the bright side, at least they aren't trying to sue people like Epic is or Blizzard did.


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## Upgrayedd (Oct 25, 2017)

Mike0409 said:


> Except you can do something about it, and there are laws surrounding consumer purchases..  it's called the "Cooling-Off Rule" and allows 72 Hours (3 Days) from purchase to receive a refund.


It will say it somewhere, very fine print, about 2 sized font. "Any unauthorized programs/scripts etc running while the Bungie Anti-cheat is active will result in permaban".. I Ireally hope not though. Im just glad I have no interest in this game.


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## cadaveca (Oct 25, 2017)

So, when will a user here get banned? Until that happens...


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## RejZoR (Oct 25, 2017)

Mike0409 said:


> Except you can do something about it, and there are laws surrounding consumer purchases..  it's called the "Cooling-Off Rule" and allows 72 Hours (3 Days) from purchase to receive a refund.



Not just not buy this game but not buy ANY game from Bungie EVER again. Only that way we can teach greedy companies and their dumb busines practices. I'm doing this with Ubisoft for years and I don't miss any of their shit.

If you just bitch on forums and then buy their stuff again, you're a hypocrite and an idiot. There are enough developers and publishers as well as games that you can easily do this where they can't afford mass loses of consumers.

EDIT:
Also, has Bungie never heard of whitelisting? They could easily whitelist MSI Afterburner and other known clean stuff. Valve does that. All serious developers do this for their anti-cheat.


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## thesmokingman (Oct 25, 2017)

Glad I didn't throw any duckats their way.


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## Manu_PT (Oct 25, 2017)

And this is how you DONT do to stop hacking. And some PC gamers still say hacking is not a problem no PC lmao, laughable. Companies are desperate. Look what´s happening on fortnite and pubg


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## Th3pwn3r (Oct 25, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Not just not buy this game but not buy ANY game from Bungie EVER again. Only that way we can teach greedy companies and their dumb busines practices. I'm doing this with Ubisoft for years and I don't miss any of their shit.
> 
> If you just bitch on forums and then buy their stuff again, you're a hypocrite and an idiot. There are enough developers and publishers as well as games that you can easily do this where they can't afford mass loses of consumers.
> 
> ...


After reading this I don't think I know what a hypocrite is.


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## Mike0409 (Oct 25, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> Not just not buy this game but not buy ANY game from Bungie EVER again. Only that way we can teach greedy companies and their dumb busines practices. I'm doing this with Ubisoft for years and I don't miss any of their shit.
> 
> If you just bitch on forums and then buy their stuff again, you're a hypocrite and an idiot. There are enough developers and publishers as well as games that you can easily do this where they can't afford mass loses of consumers.
> 
> ...



A consumer will do what they want at the end of the day.  Those that were marked with the unforeseen ban hammer will have a bitter taste for Bungie for the formidable future. A lot of consumers might have their faith restored once the issue is identified and fixed the explanation given to the public.

Your assuming that Bungie doesn't do whitelisting, where in fact they very well could. Facts and data need to be presented and validated before drawing any conclusions as to what caused this shit show to kick off.  The forums are a melting pot of truth and bullshit right now.


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## RejZoR (Oct 25, 2017)

People don't just get mass banned for no reason. And this isn't some indie garage developer with 2 people working on a project, they are a AAA developer.


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## ZoneDymo (Oct 25, 2017)

Ban first, explain rules or offer options later, its the new Bungie way


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## Mike0409 (Oct 25, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> People don't just get mass banned for no reason. And this isn't some indie garage developer with 2 people working on a project, they are a AAA developer.



No people do not get mass banned for no reason. The details will come out once the root cause is identified, a fix has been prepared and then an announcement will be made.

 You can't even compare this to a indie developer working out of a garage as they don't have the layers of complexity going into their development that Bungie has. On top of it, just because your a AAA developer doesn't mean everything works 100%. Especially in the PC market where software and hardware is completely customized, this isn't a closed architecture like a PS4/Xbox.


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## bug (Oct 25, 2017)

Mike0409 said:


> No people do not get mass banned for no reason. The details will come out once the root cause is identified, a fix has been prepared and then an announcement will be made.
> 
> You can't even compare this to a indie developer working out of a garage as they don't have the layers of complexity going into their development that Bungie has. On top of it, just because your a AAA developer doesn't mean everything works 100%. Especially in the PC market where software and hardware is completely customized, this isn't a closed architecture like a PS4/Xbox.


Stop being that dense.

This has nothing to do with root cause analysis, it's about user grief that could have been easily avoided.


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## TheLaughingMan (Oct 25, 2017)

If someone wants to get me the game, I will gladly get banned since 3 of those programs run on my PC 24/7.


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## thesmokingman (Oct 25, 2017)

Hey, on second thought this is a genius way to reduce the load on your overtaxed servers!


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## Mike0409 (Oct 25, 2017)

bug said:


> Stop being that dense.
> 
> This has nothing to do with root cause analysis, it's about user grief that could have been easily avoided.



Not sure why you think I am being dense.  I appreciate it tho, as I am thick headed!  

How do you stop user grief on an unforeseen problem? Can you rectify grief without having an understanding of the issue at hand?


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 25, 2017)

Glad I'm not alone. Had no clue why I was banned. Demanded a refund and when refused, I called my card company who instantly reversed the transaction. Bungie needs to pull their head out of their bum and start doing things the right way.


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## Assimilator (Oct 25, 2017)

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why you don't preorder games, or buy them on release day.


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## dwade (Oct 25, 2017)

Can't blame Bungie. Too many damn cheaters on the PC is why I prefer the superior multiplayer experience on consoles.


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## PopcornMachine (Oct 25, 2017)

Was really thinking about getting this game. Not going to happen now.

Just amazing business decision by a game company.  Just about every PC gamer uses one of these things.

Afterburner?  Who doesn't use that.  Might as well not issue a PC game.

Hopefully hurts the company bad. Real bad.


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## SomeOne99h (Oct 25, 2017)

Hahaha!

* Shawctober *
*  @ShockAndShaw  *
*PC Project Lead at Bungie. Titan. Rogue. Husband. Dad. Maker.*

"*We do block programs from pushing their code into our game. Most overlays work like that. We don't ban for that tho. That's internet BS*."

8:50 PM - 24 Oct 2017 

Source:
https://twitter.com/ShockAndShaw/status/923033887269257216?ref_src=twsrc^tfw


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 25, 2017)

dwade said:


> Can't blame Bungie. Too many damn cheaters on the PC


Oh yes we can blame them for what amounts to shitty DRM. And this kinda of problem is no excuse for treating paying customers like criminals. This is one more reason why I love GOG.


dwade said:


> why I prefer the superior multiplayer experience on consoles.


Consoles don't offer keyboard and mouse support, ATM. There are a great many gamers who *will not* play FPS type games without that functionality. For FPS games, controllers are irritatingly clunky and cumbersome by comparison. Some games work well with a controller and indeed require it for best experience. FPS and RTS type games are not in that group. Additionally, not everyone cares[at all] about multiplayer functionality. Some of us buy games to enjoy a good story and adventure.


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## natr0n (Oct 25, 2017)

http://www.pcgamer.com/bungie-third..._source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 25, 2017)

natr0n said:


> http://www.pcgamer.com/bungie-third..._source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw


Yeah, not buying that nonsense. I couldn't get into the game at all. It would start to play the intro and then drop out. And after a few tries, it refused to login altogether.


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## Freez (Oct 25, 2017)

Activision. What a bastards.
Game sucks, but.. it's just (don't get me wrong) oldfags don't buying anything from Activision. 
P.S. Banned streamers and young ones now is like "outrage".


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## bug (Oct 25, 2017)

Mike0409 said:


> Not sure why you think I am being dense.  I appreciate it tho, as I am thick headed!
> 
> How do you stop user grief on an unforeseen problem? Can you rectify grief without having an understanding of the issue at hand?


Why do you keep insisting this is unforeseen?


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## StrayKAT (Oct 25, 2017)

bug said:


> Why do you keep insisting this is unforeseen?



Like I said in the beginning of this thread, I'm amazed that anyone would even be working at a company this big if they were the type of developer that lost in their own little space of applications.

It's like they imagined only one user scenario, where every gamer was running a "Destiny kiosk".


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## Static~Charge (Oct 25, 2017)

> A post from a Bungie Forum moderator didn't do much to instill confidence: "In Destiny there are account restriction and bans,", Bungie moderator "Kellogs" writes. "Restrictions are only temporary but must be waiting out while bans are permanent. Please note that Bungie will not discuss or overturn account restrictions or bans."



Bungie's rules of operation:

Rule #1 - Bungie is always right.

Rule #2 - If Bungie is ever shown to be wrong, see rule #1.


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## dicktracy (Oct 25, 2017)

Bungie already addressed this. The game doesn't automagically ban players. They "manually" banned 400+ players for outright cheating.


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## bug (Oct 25, 2017)

StrayKAT said:


> Like I said in the beginning of this thread, I'm amazed that anyone would even be working at a company this big if they were the type of developer that lost in their own little space of applications.
> 
> It's like they imagined only one user scenario, where every gamer was running a "Destiny kiosk".


It's possible they used an off-the-shelf solution or something built by another team within the company and didn't think much about integration. However, that is completely irrelevant from users' point of view.
However, like @RejZoR said above, if users rage about this and then turn around and buy Bungie's next title, I have no sympathy for them either.

Edit: And about developers, they always get lost in their own space. It's inevitable when you do the same thing over and over and over and over again. That's why there's an architect somewhere and that's why, imho, the dev team should never sign off on anything. QA should.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 25, 2017)

dicktracy said:


> Bungie already addressed this. The game doesn't automagically ban players. They "manually" banned 400+ players for outright cheating.


Ok, maybe "banned" isn't the right word. How about "kicked off" or "unable to play" or even "unable to login after a few attempts to play". I wasn't cheating. Wanted to play the *single player* campaign I paid for. No matter what you want to call it, it's clearly a serious problem.

Getting tired of big companies screwing up, and playing serious problems off like it's somehow the fault of us users, you know, the paying customers that keep them in business.


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## StrayKAT (Oct 25, 2017)

bug said:


> It's possible they used an off-the-shelf solution or something built by another team within the company and didn't think much about integration. However, that is completely irrelevant from users' point of view.
> However, like @RejZoR said above, if users rage about this and then turn around and buy Bungie's next title, I have no sympathy for them either.
> 
> Edit: And about developers, they always get lost in their own space. It's inevitable when you do the same thing over and over and over and over again. That's why there's an architect somewhere and that's why, imho, the dev team should never sign off on anything. QA should.



Makes me wonder what QA was even using. A lot of the software listed is pretty common among PC gamers.


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## xorbe (Oct 25, 2017)

dicktracy said:


> Bungie already addressed this. The game doesn't automagically ban players. They "manually" banned 400+ players for outright cheating.



What's all the hub-bub about then?  Social media attack by a banned cheater?  [Serious question!]


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## Th3pwn3r (Oct 26, 2017)

Assimilator said:


> And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why you don't preorder games, or buy them on release day.



Pre-ordering makes a lot of sense for the purpose of PRE-LOADING. Can you imagine a bazillion players all trying to download the game all at the same time? Probably wouldn't work out too well.


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## Th3pwn3r (Oct 26, 2017)

xorbe said:


> What's all the hub-bub about then?  Social media attack by a banned cheater?  [Serious question!]



According to Bungie those insta bans were done after accounts were 'flagged' manually by a person reviewing accounts on the beta for cheating. So...however you want to take that, I don't totally believe it. Even if that is true...Bungie was perfectly fine with taking people's money and then banning the purchaser instantly? That is a scumbag move if I've ever heard one.


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## Gmr_Chick (Oct 26, 2017)

RejZoR said:


> And yet people just continue to buy stuff from such companies. When will you all learn?



To be fair though -- I'll use myself as an example -- say I just paid $60 (or in some cases more, depending on if it's a special edition or something) for this game, never having played the 1st Destiny but wanted to give this new one a try because it looked interesting or whatever, and I didn't know ANYTHING about this issue being discussed (and to be fair, if I haden't read the OP, I probably still wouldn't have known about it) only to get banned, kicked off, locked out, whatever you want to call it, for having something like Afterburner in the background. Then I find out the reason I got banned was BECAUSE I was using Afterburner. I'd be very fucking pissed off. The point is, there are more than likely PC gamers like me out there who actually don't know about this issue...until it happens to them. 



lexluthermiester said:


> Consoles don't offer keyboard and mouse support, ATM. There are a great many gamers who *will not* play FPS type games without that functionality. For FPS games, controllers are irritatingly clunky and cumbersome by comparison. Some games work well with a controller and indeed require it for best experience. FPS and RTS type games are not in that group. *Additionally, not everyone cares[at all] about multiplayer functionality. Some of us buy games to enjoy a good story and adventure.*



You can count me as one of those people. I basically grew up around single player (or at the most, two player) games so I prefer them over multiplayer. And you can bet I'd buy a game with great story and adventure over a "thrilling" multiplayer-centric title any day of the week  

When it comes to control methods, I think I'm in the minority, as I only play my PC games using a controller, but that's because it feels more natural and familiar to me than the more traditional mouse/keyboard setup. About the only PC game I use a mouse and/or keyboard for is Sims 3 and 4.


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Oct 26, 2017)

Definitely wont get it now


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## StrayKAT (Oct 26, 2017)

Gmr_Chick said:


> When it comes to control methods, I think I'm in the minority, as I only play my PC games using a controller, but that's because it feels more natural and familiar to me than the more traditional mouse/keyboard setup. About the only PC game I use a mouse and/or keyboard for is Sims 3 and 4.



I'm almost in the same category. I prefer mouse/kb with faster paced FPS (action heavy). Anything that's a bit more plodding and exploration heavy, I don't mind a controller (FO/Skyrim, horror stuff). I could probably play Destiny with a controller too... but like you, I'm more into single player -- and from what little I know from Destiny 1, it sucks for that. People just get in the way.


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## rtwjunkie (Oct 26, 2017)

Assimilator said:


> And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why you don't preorder games, or buy them on release day.


And also a reason to stick to single player games. I prefer a story anyway.


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## Frick (Oct 26, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, maybe "banned" isn't the right word. How about "kicked off" or "unable to play" or even "unable to login after a few attempts to play". I wasn't cheating. Wanted to play the *single player* campaign I paid for. No matter what you want to call it, it's clearly a serious problem.
> 
> Getting tired of big companies screwing up, and playing serious problems off like it's somehow the fault of us users, you know, the paying customers that keep them in business.



So you could play when you turned the programs off?


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## Prince Valiant (Oct 26, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, maybe "banned" isn't the right word. How about "kicked off" or "unable to play" or even "unable to login after a few attempts to play". I wasn't cheating. Wanted to play the *single player* campaign I paid for. No matter what you want to call it, it's clearly a serious problem.
> 
> Getting tired of big companies screwing up, and playing serious problems off like it's somehow the fault of us users, you know, the paying customers that keep them in business.


Even if you were cheating your arse off I don't see how it should matter when it's confined to single player.

They know they can get away with it these days. The number of times I've heard someone defending a company doing something scummy is mind boggling. It's like some people enjoy getting their rights pissed on by companies.


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## Krzych (Oct 26, 2017)

Now that was a quick fall from "all PC support and customization you may want" to "you will be banned for the will to live"


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## StrayKAT (Oct 27, 2017)

Prince Valiant said:


> Even if you were cheating your arse off I don't see how it should matter when it's confined to single player.
> 
> They know they can get away with it these days. The number of times I've heard someone defending a company doing something scummy is mind boggling. It's like some people enjoy getting their rights pissed on by companies.



Been trying to figure this out for a long time myself.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 27, 2017)

Frick said:


> So you could play when you turned the programs off?


What programs? I don't run anything when gaming. I think Firefox might have been running, but that was closed after the first time the game kicked me.


Prince Valiant said:


> Even if you were cheating your arse off I don't see how it should matter when it's confined to single player.


Right? Cheating online is abhorrent and foul. It's one of the reason I don't play online. But in a single-player game? Who cares?


Prince Valiant said:


> They know they can get away with it these days. The number of times I've heard someone defending a company doing something scummy is mind boggling. It's like some people enjoy getting their rights pissed on by companies.


The thing is, they didn't get away with it. My card company reversed the transaction. It's called a charge-back and reflects negatively on their rating with Visa. Enough people do that and it'll be enough to bump up the transaction fees they have to pay. So there's that.


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## Prince Valiant (Oct 27, 2017)

StrayKAT said:


> Been trying to figure this out for a long time myself.


Pretty strange to say the least.



lexluthermiester said:


> What programs? I don't run anything when gaming. I think Firefox might have been running, but that was close after the first time the game kicked me.
> 
> Right? Cheating online is abhorrent and foul. It's one of the reason I don't play online. But in a single-player game? Who cares?
> 
> The thing is, they didn't get away with it. My card company reversed the transaction. It's called a charge-back and reflects negatively on their rating with Visa. Enough people do that and it'll be enough to bump up the transaction fees they have to pay. So there's that.


Getting enough people to protect themselves in similar situations is the challenge.


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## Th3pwn3r (Oct 27, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> What programs? I don't run anything when gaming. I think Firefox might have been running, but that was closed after the first time the game kicked me.
> 
> Right? Cheating online is abhorrent and foul. It's one of the reason I don't play online. But in a single-player game? Who cares?
> 
> The thing is, they didn't get away with it. My card company reversed the transaction. It's called a charge-back and reflects negatively on their rating with Visa. Enough people do that and it'll be enough to bump up the transaction fees they have to pay. So there's that.



Do you still have the game? Lol...


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## Frick (Oct 27, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> What programs? I don't run anything when gaming. I think Firefox might have been running, but that was closed after the first time the game kicked me.



So you had completely different issues then and were not affected by this at all.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 27, 2017)

Th3pwn3r said:


> Do you still have the game? Lol...


No. Uninstalled and deleted it.


Frick said:


> So you had completely different issues then and were not affected by this at all.


And you know that how? What are you, psychic?


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## Frick (Oct 28, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> And you know that how? What are you, psychic?



You said it yourself.



lexluthermiester said:


> Ok, maybe "banned" isn't the right word. How about "kicked off" or "unable to play" or even "unable to login after a few attempts to play".



Unlreated problem. Which you _should_ complain about, but still.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 28, 2017)

Complaining at this juncture would be a mute point, I got a refund. The reality is they have problems. A friend of mine did not, but then he's got a Radeon. Who knows what the problem is, but clearly they have one.


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## StrayKAT (Oct 28, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> Complaining at this juncture would be a mute point, I got a refund. The reality is they have problems. A friend of mine did not, but then he's got a Radeon. Who knows what the problem is, but clearly they have one.



Well, since you were a early buyer, I imagine you were looking forward to it. Sorry about that. Good thing is, there's so many other good games out.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 28, 2017)

StrayKAT said:


> Well, since you were a early buyer, I imagine you were looking forward to it. Sorry about that. Good thing is, there's so many other good games out.


Yeah, it's all good. Funny enough, The Doom collection got a discount on GOG, and after recently discovering GZDoom, I decided to get and relive them. Not quite the same as the new hotness, but it will be a grand trip down memory lane and just in time for halloween!


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## erocker (Oct 30, 2017)

So, uh... 400 people affected and overlays wasn't the issue. This story got blown out of proportion real fast.


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## Th3pwn3r (Oct 30, 2017)

erocker said:


> So, uh... 400 people affected and overlays wasn't the issue. This story got blown out of proportion real fast.


That's the fault of Bungie not explaining things, they could have easily but nope, they chose not to out of stupidity.


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## lexluthermiester (Oct 30, 2017)

erocker said:


> So, uh... 400 people affected and overlays wasn't the issue. This story got blown out of proportion real fast.


Citation please?


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## CounterZeus (Nov 2, 2017)

lexluthermiester said:


> Citation please?



Security update from Bungie. https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/46426

But it was more like:
- manually banned 400 people
- overturned 4 bans from beta
- then they updated with an 'oops', there was a group banned in error (unknown number), but nothing to do with overlays.


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## SomeOne99h (Nov 3, 2017)

CounterZeus said:


> Security update from Bungie. https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/46426
> 
> But it was more like:
> - manually banned 400 people
> ...


It wasn't just "oops". The project leader's response was lame and he said "That is Internet BS" in twitter.
Look: https://twitter.com/ShockAndShaw/status/923033887269257216

Just in case that link become nothing, This is his first reply *"We do block programs from pushing their code into our game. Most overlays work like that. We don't ban for that tho. That's internet BS."*


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## lexluthermiester (Nov 3, 2017)

CounterZeus said:


> Security update from Bungie. https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/46426
> 
> But it was more like:
> - manually banned 400 people
> ...


So basically you just confirmed, with Bungie's own updated statement, that this was not blown out of proportion and that the experiences that many have had, myself included, are in fact caused by a code problem. Thank You for that.

Dear Bungie;
Situations like this and many others[looking at you EA] are why PROPER and THROUGH beta testing is needed before releasing games and software. We, the paying public, are not your beta testers. We are tired of you treating us as such. We are tired of getting screwed over because of YOUR failures. And we are tired of being treated like criminals through sad use of garbage DRM, which has proven itself to be as effective as a screen door on a submarine.


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## JrockTech (Nov 3, 2017)

The statistical information I get from MSI afterburner is detrimental for me to choose my in game settings. I need to know what % usage my components are at.

I guess for now I will do it the old fashion way and record my stats for a few minutes then minimize and adjust. 

Anyone willing to test if they can detect Riva's 2D vector?


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