# "New" PC keeps freezing / crashing!



## drboon (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi 

HARDLY AN INTRODUCTION
Well my (fairly) new computer keeps crashing . I'll just post the most important components of the build first before going into detail.

COMPONENTS
1x ASUS Striker II Extreme nForce 790i Ultra SLI
1x PC Power&Cooling Quad Silencer (750W)
1x Intel Core 2 Quad Extreme QX9770 (@3.2GHz, cooler: Thermalright IFX-14)
2x EVGA 9800GX2 SSC (1 card's disconnected from the PS atm)
1x Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer
1x 2GB OCZ PC3-12800 CL7 XTC Platinum
3x 3.5" WD Raptor X (WD1500AHFD)

=> The system is running with Windows XP (32-bit) and Windows Vista (64-bit).

THE PROBLEM
That system was built about a year ago. Everything looked good at first, but after setting up everything nicely I couldn't help but notice that the computer keeps freezing / crashing. I was - and still am - deadly certain that it's not caused by software, so I looked for any unusual temperature values.

TEMPERATURES (IDLE)
http://www.zshare.net/image/63094204be2e2865/

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that there's any unusual temperature value in this listing. I'm not quite sure about the NB and SB though: 70-80°C (under load - saw this in the temperature monitor of the BIOS) seems pretty high (?).

The RAM has also been checked (no errors).

So, after doing this:  for quite some time I'm finally asking you guys to help me fix this


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## Fatal (Jul 24, 2009)

When does it crash with media and gaming or it happens in time? 

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/252088-30-solution-790i-freezes 

Found that it says about freezing up for the 790i. 

Edit:I do not know much about intel but I am sure some one will come along that can assist you.


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## IINexusII (Jul 24, 2009)

2x EVGA 9800GX2 SSC (1 card's disconnected from the PS atm)

remove the card completely if your not using it


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## kyle2020 (Jul 24, 2009)

Im surprised the system would even boot with a card installed that isnt getting any power 

Remove that card and see what happens.

Could also be down to the motherboard needing flashing to the latest bios - try that.


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## drboon (Jul 24, 2009)

@Fatal: its crashing random

@IINexusII: why would I have to do that? I was afraid that the SB suffers from the heat of the second card but now that its not connected to the PS its not heating up at all.


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## drboon (Jul 24, 2009)

already flashed the bios to 1104


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## MaximusE (Jul 24, 2009)

upgrade your bios. also update ur drivers to the latest. also use a auslogics disk defrag program. is free. and scan ur pc. also check ur temps and ur cards ar properly connected from the psu


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## MaximusE (Jul 24, 2009)

1x 2GB OCZ PC3-12800 CL7 XTC Platinum? if u can upgrade to 4 gb


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## drboon (Jul 24, 2009)

1. the bios is up-to-date
2. latest drivers for all components are already installed
3. how does defragmenting help me fix deadlocks ?:>
4. temps are up there^^
5. the card does not need to be connected (consider it as not plugged in - i detached it from the psu yesterday for those of you who insist on connecting it to fix the problem )
6. I don't think that additional ram will fix the problem..I'm solely using winxp32bit so I'm more or less hitting the cap anyways


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## MaximusE (Jul 24, 2009)

use registry defrag and disk defrag and u will see.

why the cards not need to be connected? what u mean

of course the additional ram will increase the power. if u check now u using around 1.5 gb on process. 2 gigs with this rig is not usual. use 4


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## drboon (Jul 24, 2009)

with all do respect but defragmenting or cleaning up the registry does not solve that kind of a problem (i reinstalled xp about a month ago anyways). 

I detached the 2nd card yesterday -> I'm having these problems for about a year now (with the 2nd card connected - obviously ).

additional ram won't help either since I'm not looking for more power but stability 
1.5gb of unreserved memory is more than enough to run winxp - and as I said: it's crashing randomly so just leaving it in idle mode for some time suffices to make it freeze.


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## 95Viper (Jul 24, 2009)

Just a thought. Try moving that ram from the A1 (blue) slot to the A2(white) slot or vice-versa...and see if it still has random crashes.

In Vista goto the admin tools and look at event viewer to see if it gives any info on the crash.

If it blue screens write down the info and codes it gives you.

Random crashes are a pain sometimes, Goodluck


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## phanbuey (Jul 24, 2009)

your MCP may be overheating... Mine was causing crashes until I put an 80MM fan over it.  Just a thought.  I have the 750i with circupipe cooling on my nb.


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## drboon (Jul 24, 2009)

already did both - the event log doesn't show any errors.

yep..sounds kinda strange but I wish the OS would smack me with a bluescreen to get some sort of clue


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## phanbuey (Jul 24, 2009)

so it crashes regardless of quad SLI, or does that make the crashes worse?  

Have you tried overclocking at all?  

Have you tried turning off c1e or any other bios power management?

More juice to the processor?

Can you post a CPU-z shot?

/20 questions  - it sounds like a processor issue - you checked the mem and that was fine, so you should not be getting crashes due to bad sticks... although hard locks can be caused by not enough voltage to the CPU - possibly the cpu is being fed wrong volts, maybe due to power management being borked on the MB.. or it is degraded (did it have a previous owner) and needs more powah.

Last question... have you tried raising the volts and bumping the FSB term on the cpu?


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## drboon (Jul 24, 2009)

1. yep, its not affected by quad sli
2. nope, manufacturer timings
3. all additional features are turned off
4.0 CPU voltages: VCore - 1.2875V, PLL - 1.5V, VTT: 1.3V
4.1 Mem voltage: 1.88V (its actually running at 1.9V)
5. CPU-Z (under load): Screenshot
=> no previous owner
6. which one of these would I have to change to do that? Voltage settings (these are NOT my settings. it's just a random pic of the available voltage settings)


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## phanbuey (Jul 24, 2009)

drboon said:


> 1. yep, its not affected by quad sli
> 2. nope, manufacturer timings
> 3. all additional features are turned off
> 4.0 CPU voltages: VCore - 1.2875V, PLL - 1.5V, VTT: 1.3V
> ...



 thanks for answering all that i have to do some research on the optimal GTL ref settings of the proc - its might where your problem lies as your other voltages look absolutely fine.  

*BUT* Your V-core shows 1.344V in CPU-Z but you say it is set at 1.2875V, thats a massive difference.  Maybe loadline calibration (LLC) is upping the V's too much at load?  Or worse, the motherboard is having issues controlling processor voltage.

Can you verify your load voltage using everest or speedfan and that the setting in the bios is 1.2875V?  Because if so, and your CPU is jumping to 1.344v during load that's a pretty big deal.

Also FSB Term = VTT voltage... usually its fine to leave GTL refs on auto, unless youre trying for some insane clocks... Also - what is your NB voltage?  this should be probably at least around 1.4+v as the 7-series chipsets are known for having comparatively weak NB's for quads.


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## drboon (Jul 24, 2009)

Thanks for looking up the GTL ref settings  I tried to do that myself but couldn't find anything :\

Agreed - the vcore's actually pretty high compared to the voltage in the bios. Should I disable LLC at this point?

NB voltage is 1.5V.


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## phanbuey (Jul 24, 2009)

drboon said:


> Thanks for looking up the GTL ref settings  I tried to do that myself but couldn't find anything :\
> 
> Agreed - the vcore's actually pretty high compared to the voltage in the bios. Should I disable LLC at this point?



yes... and watch the proc's vcore at idle... see if its dipping. 

1. Motherboard power
2. North Bridge shenanigans

Ill brb with the gtl's

EDIT: 1.5v  that's what mine is at too - (1.51v) has to be or it craps out ... i have to have active cooling on it to keep stable at that though.

EDIT: 
From Anubi @XSforums:


> You adjust each Reference voltage separately. They aren't dependent on each other, they each do a specific function.
> 
> ...There are reference voltages for the DIMMs, for the memory controller, for the FSB controller in the NB, and for the FSB controller in the CPU. They do the same thing in each case. The controller uses the reference voltage to determine if the signal it is receiving is high, giving a logic 1, or low, giving a logic 0.
> 
> ...



And *this* source advocates the best FSB and CPU GTL's as 67% of VTT - which at 1.3 would be ~.871-.872


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 24, 2009)

I can't believe no one has said this yet...

1. Set everything back to default. No OC at all anywhere. No volt adjustments. No nothing.
2. Run OCCT for an hour and get back to us.

If that clears then it isnt a hardware problem. Then slowy tweak and test each adjustment there after until she bombs again. That should be it man.

This forum is full of HIGHLY intelligent individuals. However some lack common sense sometimes.


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## phanbuey (Jul 24, 2009)

Basically it seems the 790i is notorious for hard locking if the vcore of the processor goes below a certain level... it definitely seems like a motherboard power issue - 

One way to make sure that windows power management doesn't kick in is to go into vista power options>advanced settings> processor>min processor state *100%*

@Mailman:  Im sure he has done that already - he pretty much knows what he is doing.  Also the 790i is known for this problem at stock. (read link below)

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/252088-30-solution-790i-freezes


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## m4gicfour (Jul 24, 2009)

MaximusE said:


> 1x 2GB OCZ PC3-12800 CL7 XTC Platinum? if u can upgrade to 4 gb



Wow. That's as bad as Compaq telling me to buy more ram for my laptop when I asked them if there was any difference between compaq's - 2005 - display driver package and ATi's :shadedshu (turned out that a crappy overlay for the volume control buttons needed compaq's version... I sacrificed that and took the _double_ frames per second from updated ATi drivers. 

On topic, I don't know about your specific hardware, but on my DFI board the NB was showing ~50-60C and I was having lockups when the OS power management was enabled. I removed the heatsink, took the crappy thermal pad off, reapplied a quality thermal grease, and added a fan. Temps dropped to ~30-45C and I stopped having lockups.

Your chipset may be able to take that kind of heat, but mine sure couldn't. I could have increased voltage too, but lowering temps seemed a better option.


also, if you haven't already, you could try running memtest (although memory errors in my experience cause bluescreens rather than hard-locks).


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 24, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> Basically it seems the 790i is notorious for hard locking if the vcore of the processor goes below a certain level... it definitely seems like a motherboard power issue -
> 
> One way to make sure that windows power management doesn't kick in is to go into vista power options>advanced settings> processor>min processor state *100%*
> 
> ...



Never under estimate some people. The guy could build a space shuttle from a can of tooth picks doesn't mean he can change a tire


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## phanbuey (Jul 24, 2009)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Never under estimate some people. The guy could build a space shuttle from a can of tooth picks doesn't mean he can change a tire


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## TheMailMan78 (Jul 24, 2009)

If he had done what I suggested he would already know what the problem is. Or at least narrowed it down.


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## m4gicfour (Jul 24, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> Basically it seems the 790i is notorious for hard locking if the vcore of the processor goes below a certain level... it definitely seems like a motherboard power issue -
> 
> One way to make sure that windows power management doesn't kick in is to go into vista power options>advanced settings> processor>min processor state *100%*
> 
> ...



This sounds similar to the problem I had on my DFI, the chipset overheats and can't stay stable when power management lowers the volts on everything. Mine had an AMD790FX-SB600 chipset. Is 70-80C normal for a 790i?

He should be able to disable power management from BIOS aswell. I found that easier when I was troubleshooting my DFI (although my lockups were near instantaneous so it was hard to change settings in windows)


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## phanbuey (Jul 24, 2009)

m4gicfour said:


> This sounds similar to the problem I had on my DFI, the chipset overheats and can't stay stable when power management lowers the volts on everything. Is 70-80C normal for a 790i?



Its high, for sure, but thats under load.  I have 750i and it will BSOD/hardlock above 75C - so I have to have a fan above it.  At 1.5V the NB gets melting hot on these boards.


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## drboon (Jul 24, 2009)

@TheMailMan78: I adjusted my voltages >because< the system kept freezing a whole lot with stock settings.

@phanbuey: I uninstalled vista  I'll keep an eye on the vcore though (and adjust the gtl voltages).

@m4gicfour: I recently read that somewhere about the whole 790i series..ASUS seems to be screwing up the thermal paste of the built-in heatsink of them quite often. I'll eventually remove the heatsink to check that if the system keeps freezing with the new voltages.


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## phanbuey (Jul 24, 2009)

drboon said:


> @TheMailMan78: I adjusted my voltages >because< the system kept freezing a whole lot with stock settings.
> 
> @phanbuey: I uninstalled vista  I'll keep an eye on the vcore though (and adjust the gtl voltages).
> 
> @m4gicfour: I recently read that somewhere about the whole 790i series..ASUS seems to be screwing up the thermal paste of the built-in heatsink of them quite often. I'll eventually remove the heatsink to check that if the system keeps freezing with the new voltages.



aww you uninstalled Windows Fail Edition?  (Windows 7 RC is the bomb)

anyways, I would do the changes that tom's recommended, and make sure that Windows was not dropping the proc voltages/frequencies at idle... last but not least - before you change thermal paste or anything - see if you can cool the NB with a fan (if you got one laying around), your problems may just go away.

If not, write Asus death threats until they send you a new motherboard worthy of that chip.


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## Fatal (Jul 25, 2009)

phanbuey said:


> aww you uninstalled Windows Fail Edition?  (Windows 7 RC is the bomb)
> 
> anyways, I would do the changes that tom's recommended, and make sure that Windows was not dropping the proc voltages/frequencies at idle... last but not least - before you change thermal paste or anything - see if you can cool the NB with a fan (if you got one laying around), your problems may just go away.
> 
> *If not, write Asus death threats until they send you a new motherboard worthy of that chip*.



 I should do the same to DFI...... Well it seems there are many issues with the 790i running at stock with every thing and you still have issues I would send the board back. There may be nothing you can do to solve the issues.


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## KH0UJ (Jul 25, 2009)

If you`re doubting on the high temps. open your side case and get an electric fan and point it directly on the mobo and set it to high speed and see what happens, just to check if it still crash


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## drboon (Aug 2, 2009)

*Calculating GTL ref voltages*

I'm not quite sure whether I'm calculating the GTL ref voltages the right way (haven't applied them yet anyways):

NB: VTT x 0.67
CPU: VTT x 0.68

not sure about the 67%/68% either..read that somewhere on the interwebz 

VTT (auto): 1.12V
VTT (new): 1.3V

NB (VTT auto): 1.12V x 0.67 = 0.7504V
NB (VTT new): 1.3V x 0.67 = 0.871V
NB (resulting GTL): 0.871V - 0.7504V = 0.1206V = 121mV

same thing for the CPU using 68%: 122mV.

Looks pretty wrong to me


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## francis511 (Aug 2, 2009)

Hdd or psu problems would cause freezing imo.


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## Bundy (Aug 2, 2009)

I doubt GTL's are your problem if it's unstable at stock. First, do what the mailman said and put everything at stock. Then do what phanbuey said and check your NB temps, try a fan. Resume OC when the problem is solved.

I've had a 680i with similar issues. The NB and SB needed extra volts to be stable and I needed active cooling to keep it cool.


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