# 9600KF Project Phase III: major case upgrade + another supplemental radiator



## storm-chaser (Feb 17, 2021)

*Best look that's got me hooked right now are white ATX enclosures. *So that's what I went with for Phase three of this project. The old coolermaster case is pretty much a moot point anyway since it was just an experiment to use the same case *last built* with my father and thermal testing with the six core 9600KF @ 5.0GHz. It was never intended to be practical.

I have a bit of a blank check on this one so I wanted to run it by you guys. But the major core pieces are staying such as the MSI MEG Z390 ACE motherboard, the six core chip and the HEATKILLER copper water block. Seeing as the case is a major upgrade what else do you think I should do here to spruce this build up? I will get pics soon, but right now it has an alphacool monsta 120mm x 80mm rad and one extra 360mm rad looped in from a Fractal designs S31 kit. I will be adding a third radiator as well so I'm pretty much all ears at this point if you have a recommendations on best cooling options.

Not sure at this point how much ceiling I have left with this chip but I do intend to push it harder once the upgrades arrive.

Old Case (The 360mm cooler just fits in the bottom of the case):







New Case for this build.... (alongside a smaller gamers storm case that I wanted to show with it because they match ):


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## Toothless (Feb 17, 2021)

I think you should've gone with a case with more cooling capacity over looks. You're short a copper IHS and more radiator but at least if you upgrade you'll have enough cooling for anything. 

I wonder how the Ryzen 5xxx would run since the new update allows for 5ghz easy on all that cooling.


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## FireFox (Feb 17, 2021)

@storm-chaser 
What's those tubing diameter?


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## storm-chaser (Feb 17, 2021)

Toothless said:


> I think you should've gone with a case with more cooling capacity over looks. You're short a copper IHS and more radiator but at least if you upgrade you'll have enough cooling for anything.
> 
> I wonder how the Ryzen 5xxx would run since the new update allows for 5ghz easy on all that cooling.


Sounds interesting, but I have heard they don't work well with the 9th gen chips? Something like excessive pressure on the motherboard and die? Or do you have a source for 9th gen copper IHS? Seems like it might be overkill though a good recommendation nevertheless. I am just a little leery of delidding my chips.


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## Toothless (Feb 17, 2021)

storm-chaser said:


> Sounds interesting, but I have heard they don't work well with the 9th gen chips? Something like excessive pressure on the motherboard and die? Or do you have a source for 9th gen copper IHS? Seems like it might be overkill though a good recommendation nevertheless. I am just a little leery of delidding my chips.


We're honestly past the line of overkill for an i5.

I've seen the IHS floating around ebay but can't confirm on how it works. Newest Intel I have is Haswell/DC and until they're replaced, no delidding for me.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 17, 2021)

Knoxx29 said:


> @storm-chaser
> What's those tubing diameter?



PrimoFlex Advanced LRT 3/8in. ID x 1/2in. OD Tubing Bundle (10ft Pack) - Crystal Clear​Amazon.com: PrimoFlex Advanced LRT 3/8in. ID x 1/2in. OD Tubing Bundle (10ft Pack) - Crystal Clear: Computers & Accessories


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## storm-chaser (Feb 17, 2021)

Toothless said:


> We're honestly past the line of overkill for an i5.


How do you mean?


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## storm-chaser (Feb 17, 2021)

Toothless said:


> I think you should've gone with a case with more cooling capacity over looks. You're short a copper IHS and more radiator but at least if you upgrade you'll have enough cooling for anything.
> 
> I wonder how the Ryzen 5xxx would run since the new update allows for 5ghz easy on all that cooling.


Also I am questioning the relevance with this comment, considering the case has provisions for a 360mm radiator AND a 240mm radiator below the drive bays cooling is incredible. Way "overcool" on the cooling capacity, I could probably run a 9900K at 5.5GHz in this case no problem with decent rads/ pump components.

In other words, there is no "mythical" trade off here between looks and performance. It's a package deal. Not sure where you are coming from with this far fetched notion that I'm trading looks for performance.

You might want to watch this review, should be pretty enlightening for you. Its a sick case, bottom line with an emphasis on performance. And just happened to look incredible as well.

(40) InWin 101C RGB PC Builders DREAM Case - YouTube

EDIT: from a thermal perspective this case does really well. In fact it performs on par with the $160 corsair 750D, which is a full size airflow beast with 140mm fans. This case holds the same temps with 120mm fans just FYI.


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## Toothless (Feb 17, 2021)

storm-chaser said:


> Also I am questioning the relevance with this comment, considering the case has provisions for a 360mm radiator AND a 240mm radiator below the drive bays cooling is incredible. Way "overcool" on the cooling capacity, I could probably run a 9900K at 5.5GHz in this case no problem with decent rads/ pump components.
> 
> In other words, there is no "mythical" trade off here between looks and performance. It's a package deal. Not sure where you are coming from with this far fetched notion that I'm trading looks for performance.
> 
> ...


Well, comments are comments..

I've seen some nifty cases with dual 360mm with room for a 240 and/or 120. Yes its "overcool" but I thought that was the goal for the chip was pushing as far as possible, which is why I also mentioned the copper IHS. 

Now i never got into custom water for cooling and all that stuff so I'm certainly not an expert in it. Just figured if you wanted to go bigger on processor or add things to the loop that having an option for that later would be a plus. 

I've also seen some cases where form over function was a thing, but then again I don't get time to check every review out there that's outside my filter list of requirements. I'll check out the video when I get a hot second.


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## dgianstefani (Feb 17, 2021)

Toothless said:


> We're honestly past the line of overkill for an i5.
> 
> I've seen the IHS floating around ebay but can't confirm on how it works. Newest Intel I have is Haswell/DC and until they're replaced, no delidding for me.





Toothless said:


> I think you should've gone with a case with more cooling capacity over looks. You're short a copper IHS and more radiator but at least if you upgrade you'll have enough cooling for anything.
> 
> I wonder how the Ryzen 5xxx would run since the new update allows for 5ghz easy on all that cooling.


His builds have never been about logic or ideal, they're just pet projects for fun, don't bother.


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## Toothless (Feb 17, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> His builds have never been about logic or ideal, they're just pet projects for fun, don't bother.


Some of my builds are for fun. Isn't that what a hobby is? Something to do that you think is fun?


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## dgianstefani (Feb 17, 2021)

They can be both fun and practical/best component choices for the budget. OP had another build a while back where he insisted on using a $100+ MSI plastic fake carbon air tower that performed worse than a hyper 212.


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## dgianstefani (Feb 17, 2021)

Spending $hundreds, plus time, on custom watercooling a 6c/6t skylake is not the definition of logic, regardless of how fun it is. No judgement, just warning you to not try and convince him, it's a waste of time.


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## Toothless (Feb 17, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> They can be both fun and practical/best component choices for the budget. OP had another build a while back where he insisted on using a $100+ MSI plastic fake carbon air tower that performed worse than a hyper 212.


I remember that, but it's also his money. Not everyone here makes the smartest choices and there are some obvious examples on the forums.


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## dgianstefani (Feb 17, 2021)

storm-chaser said:


> If you want to trap yourself in a self imposed box be my guest.


Look in the mirror. Peace out.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 17, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> They can be both fun and practical/best component choices for the budget. OP had another build a while back where he insisted on using a $100+ MSI plastic fake carbon air tower that performed worse than a hyper 212.


Yes just like some people insist on a hyper 212, I chose to do my own thing and put the haters down with a nice 5.0Ghz all core all day OC with the msi core frozer XL dual 120... Lol the irony here is it probably looks better in terms of aesthetics and performs better or on par with any air cooler you've owned. With all due respect you are living in pleasentville lol.


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## dgianstefani (Feb 18, 2021)

All one of them?


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## freeagent (Feb 18, 2021)

Pretty cool!

Its a hobby, just for fun. I stuck a full blown X58 with hexacore cooled by H100, 570s in sli with revodrive in an Antec Sonata. No logic there just fun, and it worked mostly lol..

Enjoy it man, do it for you


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## bogmali (Feb 19, 2021)

BLUF (bottom line up front): it's the OPs money, let him spend it the way he wants it. No need to argue and troll because you don't like it


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## Aquinus (Feb 19, 2021)

bogmali said:


> BLUF (bottom line up front): it's the OPs money, let him spend it the way he wants it. No need to argue and troll because you don't like it


Sure, but doesn't opening it up for critique invite these kinds of observations? They're not wrong and neither are you.

Maybe people (not you @bogmali) need a reminder that sometimes it's not what you say, it's how you say it.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 19, 2021)

Unless of course, you don't see the HP z820 as "practical or logical" either, I'm guessing, and just for fun. buddy you gonna call my Dell PowerEdge C4130 a illogical and illegitimate choice for my GP/GPU cluster as well? Should have gone with the C4140, right




dgianstefani said:


> dSpending $hundreds, plus time, on custom watercooling a 6c/6t skylake is not the definition of logic, regardless of how fun it is. No judgement, just warning you to not try and convince him, it's a waste of time.


That's right. An overclocked 9600KF will easily hang with the flagship 9900K when it comes to gaming. Nearly identical performance, in fact. Try like 2 frames per second more from the 9900K with both in stock form. This is within the margin of error. They perform nearly identically for workstation and gaming tasks as well. Obviously multi core utilization will go to the 9900K but no thanks (not for my usage type). I could do the same thing and get the same performance results for hundreds less than the folks that went out hellbent on getting a 9900K because somebody told them the 9th gen i5-9600KF is already obsolete. This is marketing 101. There are is literally an army of online influencers that extend the marketing campaigns of these tech giants to computer forums around the globe imploring people to embrace the core count craze.


dgianstefani said:


> They can be both fun and practical/best component choices for the budget. OP had another build a while back where he insisted on using a $100+ MSI plastic fake carbon air tower that performed worse than a hyper 212.



*The MSI Core Frozr XL was purchased for aesthetics over performance and I was very clear about that in the original build thread.*

People are beginning to see through this carefully constructed, thin veil of a negative attitude that permeates from a select few members who refuse to let owners chose the parts they want in their personal build. Ludacris, isn't it? Because that's exactly what this guy is doing.

It's a legit high end air cooler that has killer looks and definitely performs better than a hyper 212 on overclocked chips. Remember it's only about 4 degrees off the leader of the pack in terms of air cooling!!! *You are making a big stink over 4 degrees?* Got to remember people, this guy was in the negative camp saying that my MSI Core Frozr XL wouldn't be enough to cool a 9600KF at 5.0GHz, last year, during phase 1 of this build. *I proved them all wrong with a successful 5.0GHz all core daily overclock.* A small but vocal group of enlightened members reflected this same sentiment and really bashed it hard, with apparently zero ability to comprehend the notion of purchasing it primarily for the aesthetics, which was a reason I clearly emphasized multiple times in the first build thread. *In other words, it was obvious I purchased it for the looks, yet years later, case in point, you still have people failing to accept my reasons for selecting it. *I also clearly pointed out I did it for numbers matching purposes (primarily rooted in MSI components) and for the red / black themed build. Your flawed logic would go like this: You purchased a Ryzen 9 3900X? Oh My God. What were you thinking? What an illogical decision. That's a total joke. If you want to be taken seriously by some of the elite members go return your 3900X and replace it with the #1 rated CPU in it's class, the Ryzen 9 5950 X. Wow, some people just make the worst hardware choices. And this is where I flip the script. The 9600KF is clearly the more desirable option for most consumer based builds, NOT the 9900K.

In other words, the 9600KF is the practical choice over a 9900KF. Heads will explode, you just watch. The 9600KF is essentially Intel's best bang for the buck relative to all other 9th Gen processors. Because you don't have to compromise. Nearly identical gaming performance and nearly identical everything else up to six cores and most users will never be able to capitalize on all the performance the 9900K leaves in purgatory.


Interesting review on this cooler can be found here. Interesting how I purchased it for the exact reasons listed below.
MSI Core Frozr XL RGB Air Cooler Review – Page 6 – KitGuru
So, overall, the *MSI Core Frozr XL* is definitely a good product. It doesn’t blow us away, but it does the job *and will likely appeal strongly to those with other MSI products, or if you simply have a black and red color scheme and are looking for a complimentary cooler.

Very sick cooler and easy on the eyes. *


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## storm-chaser (Feb 19, 2021)

Aquinus said:


> Sure, but doesn't opening it up for critique invite these kinds of observations? They're not wrong and neither are you.
> 
> Maybe people (not you @bogmali) need a reminder that sometimes it's not what you say, it's how you say it.


No, they are trolling, the mods already had to clean up the thread once. They refuse to accept the fact that I purchased the cooler for aesthetic purposes, TWO YEARS AFTER THE FACT!


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## storm-chaser (Feb 19, 2021)

*Everyone can play nice now. Lets leave the past in the past. 
-The hardware is NOT changing, so whining about it only serves to muck up the waters
-The vision for this build is exclusively MY OWN!
-You dont get to chose the parts I want for my build
-Enjoy whats to follow in the next few days  it's going to be a kick ass rig when said and done
-This upgrade will be the final iteration in the evolution of this build.
-Please post an example of one of your own personal builds so I can analyze your hardware choices (in a positive light)*


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## tabascosauz (Feb 19, 2021)

The case looks like a big step up for minimalism but airflow looks tough. On the topic of delid I just remembered this from a few months back:

Direct Die Kit - Intel 9th Gen - Complete – RockItCool (myshopify.com)
Copper UPGRADE Kit - Intel 9th Gen – RockItCool (myshopify.com)

They are soldered but I remember the 9th gen STIM being pretty shitty compared to 10th gen. 

For all-out fun, why not? That said there's this big banner on the site right now about the Texas storm stopping shipping.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 19, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> The case looks like a big step up for minimalism but airflow looks tough. On the topic of delid I just remembered this from a few months back:
> 
> Direct Die Kit - Intel 9th Gen - Complete – RockItCool (myshopify.com)
> Copper UPGRADE Kit - Intel 9th Gen – RockItCool (myshopify.com)
> ...


Just doesn't appeal to me, that's the bottom line. De-lidding your CPU you risk damage to the core and not to mention it will totally kill the re-sale value of the chip. Also I collect CPUs and no doubt when I eventually retire this rig the 9600KF will go in said collection in stock, unmolested form.

FWIW, actually the 9th gen chips have an excellent STIM (and definitely not "shitty") making delidding a bad choice because there are no / minimal gains to be had. Besides, I already daily drive this thing at 5.342GHz and thermals are a non issue. Any other recommendations guys?

Current specs of the build:




Patriot Viper 16GB 4133 CL19 @ 4166 CL18




Loving that single core result


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## storm-chaser (Feb 19, 2021)

dgianstefani said:


> Spending $hundreds, plus time, on custom watercooling a 6c/6t skylake is not the definition of logic, regardless of how fun it is. No judgement, just warning you to not try and convince him, it's a waste of time.


It's a waste of time, exactly correct. Contrary to popular belief, you can chose your own CPU as personal preference.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 19, 2021)

Toothless said:


> I remember that, but it's also his money. Not everyone here makes the smartest choices and there are some obvious examples on the forums.


Honestly I did it because I wanted the practice. Had not so much experience with custom water cooling before this one. People are so black and white (not you) in their thinking sometimes they cant even fathom that there may be different reasons out side the norm that they have not taken into account when assessing hardware or water cooling components of some else's build. I wanted to work with soft tube and go with top notch compression fittings so that's exactly what I did.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 19, 2021)

Slight thread modification here which should make this more interesting: this thread will actually have two parallel builds going on at the same time. Figured I might as well include what I will be doing with the Gamerstorm BARONKASE LIQUID case listed in the first post as well (its a pretty radical case as well). Will be getting a Phenom II X6 to run at 3.9-4.0GHz and a high clocking CPU-NB. I found the same kit of 8GB of 1600MHz DDR3 CL7 ram used in the original rig. I have a period correct Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 1GB GDDR5 GPU to go with it and Antec 620W High Current Gamer PSU. I also acquired the same motherboard as what originally existed in the first iteration which was shocking I've been searching once or twice every few months for that board FOR 4 YEARS and long after losing hope that I would ever find one again out of the blue I gave ebay a shot and what do you know? There it was with a $44 buy it now option. That would be the Biostar TA880GU3+ which is basically a T-Series (which is more of their high end stuff) micro-atx piece that you wouldn't expect to be a performer, but in all reality, it is a kick ass motherboard with extensive memory timings and in depth memory tweaking and had no problem holding a 4.0GHz daily driver overclock that was push hard intensively for over ten years, a testament that while nothing to write home about, the VRM section is up to the task.  With everything in place my best latency number with this board was 33.9ns which is actually better than the majority of heavily overlocked i7 and i9 processors to put that into perspective. Goal is to hit that again since I have all period correct hardware that was identical to the original build with the exception of a 970 Zosma CPU. So what's a good substitute? Well the Zosma 960T, of course. Which was also an OEM processor but sold to the public at some point so they are really easy to find and are basically the last best hope for a shot at a high end X6 unlocked build. The 960T has a base clock of 3.0GHz and a boost clock of 3.4GHz IIRC, but they seem to overclock pretty well. So that being said I have about 10 960T chips to parcel through and bin to see if I can find something to match the performance requirements of the OG build. So all of this stuff will be going in the gamerstorm case. Check out the pretty sick lighting here:

BARONKASE LIQUID GAMER STORM CASES





With identical hardware, the goal of the project we be trying to match my original latency number that I hit back in the day, which is 35.5 here but in actuality I did pull off a 33.9 ns latency near the end of my bench session. Details (will be mirroring this as much as possible, obviously this is not a daily driver overclock):





Regarding this supplemental Gamerstorm project, I am essentially putting together a nearly identical performance base relative to the *OG* Phenom II hexacore rig that I assembled almost a decade ago. That original system had a very rare OEM only 970 Zosma CPU, which comes from the factory with all six cores but two disabled, non turbo and has a base clock of 3.5GHz. Indicating, with a successful unlock you will get six cores at 3.5GHz, making it AMD's most powerful statically clocked CPU in the entire Phenom II lineup. In point of fact, *the Zosma 970 is the rarest processor in the entire Phenom II lineup.* They are basically impossible to find nowadays (you can find it's Deneb X4 counterpart all over the web, just not the Zosma one and that's much more desirable.) But if you do find one, they really perform on a very high level. My first Zosma 970 successfully unlocked into a Hexacore that was stable at 3.9-4.0 for daily driving. Also had a great CPU-NB that I was able to push to 3121MHz for benching.

Second OEM 970 (these came from overseas by the way back in like 2012) Zosma would only unlock a single core the other one was not stable, making for five cores which is still pretty decent. But what was most impressive about this particular chip is that it would clock reliably to 4.3GHz (air cooled) and I basically ran it this way for years.

This is actually a trend with OEM only chips for both intel and AMD alike. Their OEM only chips tend to be superior to their retail counterparts in some cases including higher turbo clock speeds and doing it with a lower TDP, indicating better voltage efficiency as well.

*The Phenom II build is mostly complete in the old case, but once swapped over to the gamerstorm white case I will try matching that OC result I mentioned earlier since we have liquid cooling and better airflow. Will probably stick it outside the window on the porch to try to hit those #s. Also forgot to mention the gamerstorm case comes with a pre-installed 120mm liquid cooling loop so that is another upgrade to see about pushing a little higher than 4.0Ghz.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 19, 2021)

Seriously, can you grow up? I think everyone is getting sick of you with nothing but negative energy on what is a kick ass, high performance build that is going to look pretty sick in the new case. Please don't be our negative nancy!


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## storm-chaser (Feb 19, 2021)

tabascosauz said:


> The case looks like a big step up for minimalism but airflow looks tough. On the topic of delid I just remembered this from a few months back:


Airflow through this case is actually superb and matches the corsair $170.00 750D, which is a full size ATX monster with huge 140mm fans as opposed to 120mm fans on the case I selected. They both perform identically in terms of getting heat out of the case.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 19, 2021)

see everyone, its not a plastic cooler after all! Guess that explains why he thought it sucked so bad... I bet he literally thought it was an all plastic air cooler. LOL


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## storm-chaser (Feb 19, 2021)

lets all keep focused on the build we will not be derailed... thanks all for being respectful going forward.

Here is the GPU we will be using with the 9600KF rig.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 19, 2021)

Noctua Fans all around!




Where the new case will be perched.




All Hail MSI!


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## Vario (Feb 19, 2021)

Those white cases look very clean, good aesthetic.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 20, 2021)

HEATKILLER IV is simply dynamite!


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## storm-chaser (Feb 21, 2021)

If there is one thing certain in this life it's the small fact that my HEATKILLER water block was definitely NOT made in China! lol


























Memory (4166mhz cl 18)





MSI MEG Z390 ACE mobo


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## storm-chaser (Feb 21, 2021)

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. so it will take a number of other rigs and I'm in the process of dismantling them and harvesting what I need to complete the 9600KF build.

Regular assembly/disassembly line going on here.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 21, 2021)

I'm happy with the controversy to some extent because this thread already has over 2000 views and its only 4-5 days old. So there is a silver lining after all. The thread visibility is excellent at the moment. With more and more eyes watching I will be sure to come up with some new and creative ways and idea's to deck this build out. Stay tuned!


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## ThrashZone (Feb 21, 2021)

Hi,
Kind of like a moth to a flame lol


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## storm-chaser (Feb 24, 2021)

So instead of Noctua I decided to go to fractal for the 120mm fans to fill out the rest of the case, seeing as though I already have three of them (installed on the 360mm rad), plus the black and white color scheme matches the case and the theme of the build very nicely. So I will need at least another three of these. And yes, they are PWM.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 27, 2021)

What is the effectiveness of a passive radiator? I doubt any at all, but I wanted to run it past you guys at the very least. And I suppose it also has to do with how good the airflow is through the case. 

Reason I am asking is because I am running into a clearance issue with the 360mm radiator that is supposed to fit in the bottom of the case.

Due to a bad PCIe slot on the motherboard, I am forced to use the lower, secondary PCIe slot for my GPU and that doesn't leave much extra room for the cooler and fans.  

If I cannot get this to work effectively due to space constraints, I might save this case for a future build and go back to the original coolermaster case where I can run the 360mm radiator without issue.


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## storm-chaser (Feb 27, 2021)

Anyone out there familiar with bus speed overclocking on the z390 / 9th gen Intel Coffee lake chips? Such as my 9600KF? I can seem to get up to 150MHz easily... how far should I push it? 

And apparently, I now have a i5 9400


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## storm-chaser (Mar 4, 2021)

The haters are really going to love this little update.  

New case... psych!

Due to reservoir constraints I've put the guts of this build back into my Coolermaster case. But one good thing, airflow through the case is enough to hit 5.6GHz. So the case may be flawed but we are still breaking personal bests with it! lol The new case will be used for a future Ryzen build...


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