# My MSI Experience (or why I won't buy another MSI product)



## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

Hi all,

I figured I would explain my experience with MSI and their RMA department. I'm not the best writer, so please bear with me.

I purchased an MSI X99A SLI Krait Edition on 12/2/2015 from Newegg. The board worked faithfully without issue until 7/13/16, when I went to reboot my PC and it never POSTed. I troubleshot the board by testing each RAM stick individually, different PSUs, different graphics cards, etc. I deemed the motherboard to be the issue.

MSI offers me an RMA to which I oblige. I send the board back and several weeks later I receive a refurbished board on 8/9/16. The replacement board also suffers from the same issue as the original board. At this point, I believe it might be one of my other components, so I test all of those at a friends house with his X99 board - everything works.

I call up MSI, they arrange an RMA and also pay shipping this time around. I do not receive my replacement board until 9/30/16. I test the board and receive the same exact issue for a third time now. I bring the board and all of my components to a friends house and we test some more. Same result. He tried his components in the board as well to no avail.

Now it is time to RMA the board for a third time. This time, the board actually arrives in a timely fashion (within 2 weeks). My excitement is short lived, however. This board exhibits the same exact symptoms. No POST, no beeps (I hooked up a POST speaker), and the onboard debug LED isn't working.

I finally caved and bought a competitor board, an Asrock Taichi X99. The board arrives, I throw in all my components, and it works like a charm. Boots to Windows on the first try. That was two days ago.

I called MSI yesterday to see if there was anything they would do. All they offered to do was RMA the board again. I don't want a fifth MSI board after my terrible experiences with the first four. I was without a computer from 7/13/16 - 11/2/16, and the only saving grace was a motherboard from another manufacturer.

I tried contacting Newegg (I didn't expect them to do much because of how much time had lapsed) and they said the only thing they can do is contact the manufacturers on my behalf to setup an RMA.

I'm hoping this post serves as a warning to others regarding MSI's RMA process and QA. It has been less than stellar from my point of view.


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## P4-630 (Nov 4, 2016)

I hope I never need it... My videocard is MSI but I live in Europe, may be better here.


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## FreedomEclipse (Nov 4, 2016)

We have an MSI rep lurking around these forums. I cant remember his name but im sure he might be able to help if not direct you to someone within the business who can .


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

FreedomEclipse said:


> We have an MSI rep lurking around these forums. I cant remember his name but im sure he might be able to help if not direct you to someone within the business who can .



That would be awesome. I used to be a lot more active here and remember seeing them around.


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## FreedomEclipse (Nov 4, 2016)

@neliz used to be the MSI guy but seems he has jumped ship and turned into gigabyte guy. 

I am currently unaware if we have an MSI rep on these forums


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## jboydgolfer (Nov 4, 2016)

that sucks...from what Ive heard, MSI boards are generally fairly decent, but exceptions happen, I personally , ONLY buy Asrock for My own PC's, I have NEVER had a issue that wasnt resolved with a simple Call to the RMA Dept, and that situation was a simple Dead Fan header. I hope it works out for You.

you might be able to reason with them, and request a differentr model board, maybe that would help.....I doubt they would give You an upgrade, (genrally Companies only go that route when THEY are at fault) , but if your stuck in this position, You might be able to request a Slight downgrade, IMO it would be worth it IF it leaves You with a working board, and PC...just a thought.


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## 64K (Nov 4, 2016)

That's some crappy customer service there. I've not had to RMA anything MSI but that kind of experience is inexcusable. There used to be a MSI rep here that I recall @MSI Staff but he hasn't been around in a long time.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

jboydgolfer said:


> that sucks...from what Ive heard, MSI boards are generally fairly decent, but exceptions happen, I personally , ONLY buy Asrock for My own PC's, I have NEVER had a issue that wasnt resolved with a simple Call to the RMA Dept, and that situation was a simple Dead Fan header. I hope it works out for You.
> 
> you might be able to reason with them, and request a differentr model board, maybe that would help.....I doubt they would give You an upgrade, (genrally Companies only go that route when THEY are at fault) , but if your stuck in this position, You might be able to request a Slight downgrade, IMO it would be worth it IF it leaves You with a working board, and PC...just a thought.



I had considered this, but I just don't trust their boards anymore. I bought a new Asrock board (which I should have done from the get-go, considering Asrock has never given me a problem). I have an MSI board in my wife's PC which has audio problems. Apparently, with a quick Google search, I found out it's a common issue and the only way to resolve it is to either reboot the PC until the audio device is detected or just buy a sound card. I went with the latter.


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## GreiverBlade (Nov 4, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> I hope I never need it... My videocard is MSI but I live in Europe, may be better here.


It is... I RMA'ed a MSI R9 270 gaming (although, not a too recent event) and albeit the issue being probably my fault they exchanged it, after testing it, and sent me  a new one under 2 weeks total work time. 

So far the best RMA service I (the worst in my  experience are Corsair and EVGA, nothing but complications with, respectively, a H60, H80 and a GTX 460) 

Other brands I can't say, never needed another RMA outside those 3.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

GreiverBlade said:


> It is... I RMA'ed a MSI R9 270 gaming (although, not a too recent event) and albeit the issue being probably my fault they exchanged it, after testing it, and sent me  a new one under 2 weeks total work time.
> 
> So far the best RMA service I (the worst in my  experience are Corsair and EVGA, nothing but complications with, respectively, a H60, H80 and a GTX 460)
> 
> Other brands I can't say, never needed another RMA outside those 3.



That's interesting, I had to RMA a Corsair PSU and they were super accommodating. I also have had about 3-4 experiences with EVGA RMA who were, in my opinion, the best in the business.

But, yeah, everyone is going to have different experiences.


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## GreiverBlade (Nov 4, 2016)

Well for me it was like your msi experience  3 to 4 send/return each Time a failing unit no other option than re RMA not even a fault recognition coupled to a refund


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## EarthDog (Nov 4, 2016)

Sorry it happened, and thank you for sharing. 

I would bet my life says 95% of people don't have this experience and shouldn't even worry about it though.


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## Liviu Cojocaru (Nov 4, 2016)

Since I've arrived in the UK around 3 years ago I've only did 2 RMA's one was the Corsair H80i (the fillets in the radiator problem) this was a really good exp I got a new sealed H80GT from SCAN in less than a week. The second was my over 900£ monitor from Acer...I had some ugly bleeding and the mon was unable to hit 100hz refresh, with this guys I had to be a bit pushy as at first they refused to do anything and advised me to use a custom configuration for colors and brightness. I've told them that if this is the case I won't buy any Acer products anymore and as my work field is IT I will advise all the people I know not to buy their products anymore...this seemed to work as they've told me to send the mon over and they replaced the panel and now my mon works fine 100hz with almost no bleeding.  

On another note my MB is MSI and I did not have any issues with it since I got it around 2 and a half years ago, fingers crossed.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

EarthDog said:


> Sorry it happened, and thank you for sharing.
> 
> I would bet my life says 95% of people don't have this experience and shouldn't even worry about it though.



Yeah, I completely agree. It was enough to sour my experience, but I don't discourage others. I just wanted to give a full disclosure account of my experience.

Funnily enough, the reason I bought an MSI board (aside from owning them previously) was because I heard their RMA experience was awesome.


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## Liviu Cojocaru (Nov 4, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> Yeah, I completely agree. It was enough to sour my experience, but I don't discourage others. I just wanted to give a full disclosure account of my experience.
> 
> Funnily enough, the reason I bought an MSI board (aside from owning them previously) was because I heard their RMA experience was awesome.


 Apparently not for everybody )


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## Papahyooie (Nov 4, 2016)

Sounds like my issues. Every single MSI board I have is plagued by the dreaded "Hypertransport Sync Flood Error".


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## GreiverBlade (Nov 4, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> Funnily enough, the reason I bought an MSI board (aside from owning them previously) was because I heard their RMA experience was awesome.


it's based on the user ... 

 well i might not be joking here, it hold a bit of truth (edit then) "in computer, 95% of the issues are tied to the interface "chair-Keyboard" or also known as: the organical component, 5% are ... well ... shit happens ... you know"
[joke]my R9 270 misadventure was my fault, yet they still replaced it, proof: i am a more valuable customer with a R9 270 than you are with a X99 board, (another proof that the X99 platform is a scam  ). [/joke]

big fat red warning the "[joke][/joke] is an indication that i am not serious at all between them and thus, called a joke   or am i ...  (nah seriously i am just joking ... )




Papahyooie said:


> Sounds like my issues. Every single MSI board I have is plagued by the dreaded "Hypertransport Sync Flood Error".


not mine ... strange ... well at last MSI never failed me neither in hardware nor in RMA ... i think i am just extremely lucky on that side ...

oh wait ... yes my MSI K8D Master 3 133 did crap out ... but... it was the previous user's fault ... crap ... it does not count either, oh well i tried


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## qubit (Nov 4, 2016)

Damn, that's some awful customer service there. 

Since all the boards had the same fault, I wonder if they just kept sending you the same board back, unfixed. Did you check the serial numbers?

Great to hear that Asrock have such good customer service. I'll definitely consider them for my next purchase.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

qubit said:


> Damn, that's some awful customer service there.
> 
> Since all the boards had the same fault, I wonder if they just kept sending you the same board back, unfixed. Did you check the serial numbers?
> 
> Great to here that Asrock have such good customer service. I'll definitely consider them for my next purchase.



I actually tracked the serial numbers for that exact reason. It was a different board each time.


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## qubit (Nov 4, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> I actually tracked the serial numbers for that exact reason. It was a different board each time.


Ok, that's weird then.


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## Jetster (Nov 4, 2016)

They probably have some RMA manager that needs to go. Try e mailing up the food chain. Apathy can be an issue when the wrong people get in some positions. Hopefully they are willing to recognize the issues and make changes


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

Jetster said:


> They probably have some RMA manager that needs to go. Try e mailing up the food chain. Apathy can be an issue when the wrong people get in some positions. Hopefully they are willing to recognize the issues and make changes



I tried to escalate, but they would not let me speak to a supervisor or manager. I'll have to Google and see if I can find some higher-ups to email.


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## Jetster (Nov 4, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> I tried to escalate, but they would not let me speak to a supervisor or manager. I'll have to Google and see if I can find some higher-ups to email.



Yep, that right there is a symptom that tells you some heads need to roll. MSI is a great company and I'm sure someone in upper management would love to here this story and compensate you for the trouble. They might not but its worth a try. I never let this kind of stuff go. Its kind of an hobby of mine



*Tel: *1-626-913-0828  Just ell them you don't want to talk to the RMA dept


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

Jetster said:


> Yep, that right there is a symptom that tells you some heads need to roll. MSI is a great company and I'm sure someone in upper management would love to here this story and compensate you for the trouble. They might not but its worth a try. I never let this kind of stuff go. Its kind of an hobby of mine
> 
> 
> 
> *Tel: *1-626-913-0828  Just ell them you don't want to talk to the RMA dept



Awesome, thank you!


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## OneMoar (Nov 4, 2016)

I am not entirely sure you don't have something else going on with that machine
3 boards in a row ... that smells fishy to me


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## r9 (Nov 4, 2016)

To me it looks like they really tried to fix the issue.
What its the chance that they sent you 5 dead boards.
Sending those will cost them more money than just sending one working.
Even though your components work on the other main board still might be some sort of compatibility problem imo.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

OneMoar said:


> I am not entirely sure you don't have something else going on with that machine
> 3 boards in a row ... that smells fishy to me



Yet all the components worked fine in 2 other motherboards? It was barebones testing - motherboard, cpu, ram, gpu, psu. Everything worked fine in other boards.

How is that possibly fishy?



r9 said:


> To me it looks like they really tried to fix the issue.
> What its the chance that they sent you 5 dead boards.
> Sending those will cost them more money than just sending one working.
> Even though your components work on the other main board still might be some sort of compatibility problem imo.



Wouldn't be a compatibility issue. The original board worked fine for 8 months. There was no BIOS update needed on any of the boards either - it supported all my hardware on the original BIOS revision. I've been doing this 20 years, I'm by no means green.



OneMoar said:


> I am not entirely sure you don't have something else going on with that machine
> 3 boards in a row ... that smells fishy to me



Also, keep in mind - there are numerous other people in Newegg reviews, MSI's forums, etc., that are on their 3rd or 4th RMA.


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## jboydgolfer (Nov 4, 2016)

qubit said:


> Damn, that's some awful customer service there.
> 
> Since all the boards had the same fault, I wonder if they just kept sending you the same board back, unfixed. Did you check the serial numbers?
> 
> Great to hear that Asrock have such good customer service. I'll definitely consider them for my next purchase.



thats why i ALWAYS mark my RMA's in some way. 
For motherboards, I usually use a black Permanent marker, and put a dot on the side of the Rear speaker block housing....and then another on a side of a Sata interface, or on the CPU back brace on the rear of the MoBo. I may be a bit paranoid, but i rather KNOW they sent me a new one, if thats what is supposed to happen.


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## thebluebumblebee (Nov 4, 2016)

My 2 cents:
You should have a state agency that does "consumer protection"  Find them and inquire into what they will do for you, but don't start anything..., yet.  Contact MSI, (customer service, not RMA) and explain what has transpired in a very business like manner, like you did in the OP.  Explain to them that you expect a full refund including all but one of your return shipping costs and that if they don't comply, you will be contacting that state agency.  Vendors don't want to have to deal with government agencies, so this threat normally gets you exactly what you want.
Hope that helps. 


Spoiler: Not important FYI



Back in the early 80's, I mail ordered a camera from a NY City camera store.  They used terrible handwriting on the mailing label (I had used my best drafting handwriting) and it ended up getting delivered to the wrong location.  I was at a Navy school at the time and had to leave the area.  I went home on leave, went to a temporary assignment, to another school, then another school, then leave again, and finally reported to my first ship.  It was very hard in those days to receive an incoming call in the Navy.  By this time, I had a folder with my evidence, which I had then forwarded to NY's - I don't recall what agency, might have been the SAG's office.  I finally got to talk to someone and explained to him what I had sent.  I still remember the moment he realized what the documents were that he was holding.  I think he said something like, "Oh, no problem."  I got a full refund in the mail 2 weeks latter, which was really fast back in the snail mail days.  I should mention that I went into the Navy while a resident of NY.  Time frame? ~October 1982 to ~May 1984!


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

thebluebumblebee said:


> My 2 cents:
> You should have a state agency that does "consumer protection"  Find them and inquire into what they will do for you, but don't start anything..., yet.  Contact MSI, (customer service, not RMA) and explain what has transpired in a very business like manner, like you did in the OP.  Explain to them that you expect a full refund including all but one of your return shipping costs and that if they don't comply, you will be contacting that state agency.  Vendors don't want to have to deal with government agencies, so this threat normally gets you exactly what you want.
> Hope that helps.
> 
> ...



This helps greatly. I think that's a great plan of action.


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## biffzinker (Nov 4, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> I purchased an MSI X99A SLI Krait Edition on 12/2/2015 from Newegg. The board worked faithfully without issue until 7/13/16, when I went to reboot my PC and it never POSTed.


Had the same happen to a Asrock Z97 Pro3. Difference for me was I shutdown my PC for the night, then the following morning no POST, and all the case/CPU fans were stuck spinning at full speed. I didn't bother with a RMA through Asrock, and instead bought the ASUS board listed in my System Specs.

Edit: Still no problems with the components I transferred from the dead Asrock board.


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## EarthDog (Nov 4, 2016)

You have to wonder if all the boards had the same issue. I would bet my life they didn't. Now, what went wrong, no idea... but to get 3 bad boards in a row, you are more likely to hit the lottery. Something else was going on... a short that only happened on that board (something contacting it shouldn't just on that MSI because of where its located, etc...) I don't know. But to get 3 bad boards in a row with the same issue WEEKS (and therefore batches) apart....... doesn't happen. Something else was going on for sure IMO. Not saying it was PEBKAC, but something else was up.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

EarthDog said:


> You have to wonder if all the boards had the same issue. I would bet my life they didn't. Now, what went wrong, no idea... but to get 3 bad boards in a row, you are more likely to hit the lottery. Something else was going on... a short that only happened on that board (something contacting it shouldn't just on that MSI because of where its located, etc...) I don't know. But to get 3 bad boards in a row with the same issue WEEKS (and therefore batches) apart....... doesn't happen. Something else was going on for sure IMO. Not saying it was PEBKAC, but something else was up.



Yeah, I mean each board was also tested with components from my friend's build. That's what makes this particularly odd.


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## cadaveca (Nov 4, 2016)

EarthDog said:


> You have to wonder if all the boards had the same issue. I would bet my life they didn't. Now, what went wrong, no idea... but to get 3 bad boards in a row, you are more likely to hit the lottery. Something else was going on... a short that only happened on that board (something contacting it shouldn't just on that MSI because of where its located, etc...) I don't know. But to get 3 bad boards in a row with the same issue WEEKS (and therefore batches) apart....... doesn't happen. Something else was going on for sure IMO. Not saying it was PEBKAC, but something else was up.


System was working, then it died. Change out board, no fix. What is part most likely to degrade over time?

That said however, it sucks that that board doesn't have POST display, as this would help. "No boot" scenarios are usually pretty straight-forward.



mrw1986 said:


> Yeah, I mean each board was also tested with components from my friend's build. That's what makes this particularly odd.



Unfortunately, that doesn't say too much about what the problem really is. For all we know, MSI got the board back from you tested it with the parts they have, and it worked fine.


That's not to say that you are at fault, but like its been said, it's pretty weird to have a few boards all with the same problem, unless it is a compatibility issue.

Normally in this situation I'd point a finger at ram, but MSI uses Kingston ram a lot.


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## EarthDog (Nov 4, 2016)

I was thinking compatibility too, but how would that suddenly pop up unless it was after a BIOS flash or something. He isn't at windows yet so it can't be Windows...

Weird.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

EarthDog said:


> I was thinking compatibility too, but how would that suddenly pop up unless it was after a BIOS flash or something. He isn't at windows yet so it can't be Windows...
> 
> Weird.



No BIOS flash was done, additionally, all of my hardware was supported with the first BIOS version.


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## cadaveca (Nov 4, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> No BIOS flash was done, additionally, all of my hardware was supported with the first BIOS version.


Plextor device is not on their list. You list PX-512M6S, they list PX-G512M6e.

Not to say that's the problem, but that does stand out to me. Just like ram isn't on QVL.

And yeah, I know you say it was working before, but sometimes stuff like this happens. It's unfortunate. Same goes for any brand... you have to match QVL or sending stuff in for RMA is problematic, since they do not have the same stuff to test with.

I run into some issues with some board often since I get boards before they are released to public. If the brand does not have the stuff I have, and I have a problem, getting it resolved can be a huge headache. It doesn't matter what brand I deal with.

For example, I have 8 sticks of Crucial ram (4 GB), didn't work with a board. I got replacements from Crucial, same part number, but single-sided, and it works fine. Board maker could not test because there wasn't stock of this ram any more at Crucial. And similar story... worked for a bit, then nothing.


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## jboydgolfer (Nov 4, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> This helps greatly. I think that's a great plan of action.



 A less official and professional way to handle it is to go on their Facebook page and voice your concern in a polite way. That way  they are a little more determined to resolve your issue amicably because if not they know you may likely post a negative experience on the Facebook page for everyone to see

 Unfortunately a lot of times when  A complaint is lodged within an organization like the Better Business Bureau the companies parent name is listed so even though your issues with MSI it'll say something like tagasake Namco Corporation


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## thesmokingman (Nov 4, 2016)

OneMoar said:


> I am not entirely sure you don't have something else going on with that machine
> 3 boards in a row ... that smells fishy to me



I had a similar thing happen with Corsair and my K95 keyboard. The LEDs kept dying over and over. On the 2nd RMA I ask if this is it, this is all there is, because I'm blowing a lot of money sending these K95's back. That's when they agree to swap me to the new K95 RGB. After 3 tries at most, it's time to do something. There are lemon laws for this reason. Got my K95 RGB six months ago, no dead LEDs. I would have gone thru two rmas in that time before lol.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

cadaveca said:


> Plextor device is not on their list. You list PX-512M6S, they list PX-G512M6e.
> 
> Not to say that's the problem, but that does stand out to me. Just like ram isn't on QVL.
> 
> ...



This was a barebones, test bench run of only the Mobo, CPU, RAM, graphics card, and PSU. So that eliminates the "incompatible ssd" (which we know is BS anyway). Additionally, my RAM is on their QVL, here's the model number: HX426C15FBK4/32.

All of that completely eliminates any incompatibility.

UPDATE: I called MSI (who don't have a general customer service number) and spoke to someone in technical support. They told me an RMA for the same board is my only recourse. I said I would be forced to report them to the Consumer Protection agency unless they complied. Still nothing. I've now lodged a complaint with the California Department of Consumer Affairs, as you must file the complaint in the state the business operates from.


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## cadaveca (Nov 4, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> This was a barebones, test bench run of only the Mobo, CPU, RAM, graphics card, and PSU. So that eliminates the "incompatible ssd" (which we know is BS anyway). Additionally, my RAM is on their QVL, here's the model number: HX426C15FBK4/32.
> 
> All of that completely eliminates any incompatibility.


You're missing the point. If they do not have the exact same model of parts, it might be impossible for them to replicate the problem. Same goes for any brand. That might explain why you had the same issue over and over with replacement boards.

You're right though, you have one of the few 2666 kits they say support for 8 sticks.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

cadaveca said:


> You're missing the point. If they do not have the exact same model of parts, it might be impossible for them to replicate the problem. Same goes for any brand. That might explain why you had the same issue over and over with replacement boards.
> 
> You're right though, you have one of the few 2666 kits they say support for 8 sticks.



I got your point and that makes sense. I still shouldn't have to deal with this issue when they outright list support for all of my components.

I also tried the replacement boards with other components from my friends X99 build and had the same result. No POST beeps, the LED diag light was not lit, nothing. Surely, I would get something if a component didn't work.


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## cadaveca (Nov 4, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> I got your point and that makes sense. I still shouldn't have to deal with this issue when they outright list support for all of my components.
> 
> I also tried the replacement boards with other components from my friends X99 build and had the same result. No POST beeps, the LED diag light was not lit, nothing. Surely, I would get something if a component didn't work.


Not always. Could be PSU; read their test report, and they haven't tried that PSU.

https://www.msi.com/file/test_report/TR7_3331.pdf

Like, I feel for ya, this totally sucks. But it can and does happen. That doesn't make it acceptable; just trying to point out the things that can cause such problem to exist on RMA.


You really need to have EXACT match to all parts when testing issues, which includes software versions. I went through something similar with Gigabyte recently and when they finally got all the parts I had, and same software, they found the problem, had updated BIOS for me, and everything was great. But prior to that, they insisted everything was fine on their end.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

cadaveca said:


> Not always. Could be PSU; read their test report, and they haven't tried that PSU.
> 
> Like, I feel for ya, this totally sucks. But it can and does happen. That doesn't make it acceptable; just trying to point out the things that can cause such problem to exist on RMA.



Yeah, definitely. I also tried 4 other PSU's, which again, all worked fine. And it would make no sense for it to work for 8 months then stop.

MSI has had a less than stellar reputation for motherboards as of the last couple of years.


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## cadaveca (Nov 4, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> MSI has had a less than stellar reputation for motherboards as of the last couple of years.




For me, they are great, but they do tend to pre-test stuff before sending it to me. I've been using MSI VGAs in my review rigs for a really long time, and we have our cooler reviewer using MSI board product as well. They've dramatically improved things as of late.


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## Ungari (Nov 4, 2016)

jboydgolfer said:


> A less official and professional way to handle it is to go on their Facebook page and voice your concern in a polite way. That way  they are a little more determined to resolve your issue amicably because if not they know you may likely post a negative experience on the Facebook page for everyone to see
> 
> Unfortunately a lot of times when  A complaint is lodged within an organization like the *Better Business Bureau *the companies parent name is listed so even though your issues with MSI it'll say something like tagasake Namco Corporation



I hope everyone realizes that the BBB is not affiliated with any government, and is private for profit business that actually accepts money from companies to sell them their endorsement.
When a company displays a BBB Member logo in the window or on the wall, I actually become suspicious of them.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 4, 2016)

Ungari said:


> I hope everyone realizes that the BBB is not affiliated with any government, and is private for profit business that actually accepts money from companies to sell them their endorsement.



Yep, that's why I completely ignore them for consumer affairs.


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## Aquinus (Nov 4, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> No BIOS flash was done, additionally, all of my hardware was supported with the first BIOS version.


Mine seemingly was too on my P9X79 Deluxe when I first built it but, the motherboard had a slightly older bios than what the QVL list had reflected and I needed to flash the BIOS just to get the machine to boot (good thing it has USB Flashback.) Unless you used all of the same parts except the motherboard, I would be very skeptical to think its the motherboard if it has happened with every replacement. I do think hardware can fail or be defective often, it happens with a monitor with me but, it was never the same problem.

It simply could be the combination of the hardware you have but, if the BIOS isn't at the latest version and I was having your problem, the very first thing I would do it get it up to the latest version.


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## EarthDog (Nov 4, 2016)

That was the problem, he couldn't get anywhere to flash it. 

It was also the same hardware on the board.

... its perplexing...


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## thesmokingman (Nov 5, 2016)

MB's should not be this perplexing in 2016. It's not like its 1997 where irq's base memory had this black box magic to it. It should just work and since it was confirmed that his gear works on a new board, it sounds like they just kept sending the same board back to him lol. Well that's my first thought. OP, did you mark the board by chance? RMA will often do that, just keep sending the same crap back to you until you give up and stop calling them. Iirc, I got screwed on a Big Bang board a few years back... just remembered it now. I'd forgotten I had sworn off MSI MB's lol.


----------



## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

thesmokingman said:


> MB's should not be this perplexing in 2016. It's not like its 1997 where irq's base memory had this black box magic to it. It should just work and since it was confirmed that his gear works on a new board, it sounds like they just kept sending the same board back to him lol. Well that's my first thought. OP, did you mark the board by chance? RMA will often do that, just keep sending the same crap back to you until you give up and stop calling them. Iirc, I got screwed on a Big Bang board a few years back... just remembered it now. I'd forgotten I had sworn off MSI MB's lol.



I tracked the SN, this wasnt my first rodeo


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## qubit (Nov 5, 2016)

mrw, you've pretty much done everything I would and it's particularly strange and unlikely that all the boards had the same failure.

I suggest the following if you're gonna RMA this latest board:

- Mark the board with a felt tip or some other way in a couple of places that you'll recognize. Make the marks small and discreet
- When you get a board back, check for these markings as well as the serial number. Who knows, perhaps the buggers are committing fraud by sticking new serial numbers onto your old board. By this point, even this starts to become possible

- Connect the minimum hardware you have to for a functioning computer with a display (use the IGP) like you have done previously
- Connect a different PSU and make it a decent branded one. Very important, as obscure PSU funnies can cause POST failure
- Just in case there's some unforeseen short, _don't_ mount the mobo in the case, but instead on some insulating surface such as wood or plastic - and be very gentle with it! 

If you still see the same thing then I dunno, maybe they really all do have the same fault, as unlikely as it seems. Let me know if you have any ideas to add to the above list.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

qubit said:


> mrw, you've pretty much done everything I would and it's particularly strange and unlikely that all the boards had the same failure.
> 
> I suggest the following if you're gonna RMA this latest board:
> 
> ...



Definitely good advice. This is exactly what I've been doing (aside from marking the board). All my PSUs are rated at least 9/10 on Jonny Guru and are from reputable brands such as Corsair, NZXT, etc.

Everything is always tested on a test bench to avoid any chance of shorting, as well.


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## qubit (Nov 5, 2016)

You really do have it covered. 

Yeah, so try the marking thing, otherwise I'm out of ideas other than they've got a whole load of crap boards with the same fault and the RMA department are trying to ruin MSI's reputation by just giving them out as "repairs".

Did googling for the fault turn up recurring failures with this model, especially with these symptoms?


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## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

qubit said:


> You really do have it covered.
> 
> Yeah, so try the marking thing, otherwise I'm out of ideas other than they've got a whole load of crap boards with the same fault and the RMA department are trying to ruin MSI's reputation by just giving them out as "repairs".
> 
> Did googling for the fault turn up recurring failures with this model, especially with these symptoms?



It actually did, on their official forums and a few other tech forums.


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## thesmokingman (Nov 5, 2016)

Yea, you need to mark the actual board. They can replace serial numbers.


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## EarthDog (Nov 5, 2016)

Really? You think they swap S/N??? You think its actually a big enough concern to mark your board? Without a doubt I see a need for checking the s/N, but not marking the board up...

I really need to invest in stocks for tinfoil. lol


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## Jetster (Nov 5, 2016)

What if they just repair the board


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## hapkiman (Nov 5, 2016)

Hey, I hear you bro.  An experience like that would sour anyone's opinion of a company.  I had a similar experience with a Gigabyte graphics card, and haven't bought any of their products since (3 RMAs in a row of the same card).   I will tell you this - I've got quite a few builds under my belt and my go to brand for boards is either ASUS or MSI.  My current board is an MSI Z170A Gaming M7, and it has hands down been the best and most trouble free mobo I've ever had.  I can't remember exactly how many MSI products I've had or bought over the years (a bunch), but I can only remember one MSI RMA I did on a Z97M board for a friend's build.  I was an easy peasy RMA, and the replacement worked fine.  I also remember an ASUS RMA for a card and it went pretty much trouble free as well.  EVGA is probably #1 in customer service from my experience (they do cross shipping and you get the RMA in a few days), but I didn't think MSI was that bad.  Seems really strange that you were sent three boards in a row that were bad (makes me suspect something: RAM, etc... was incompatible).  On my 3 Gigabyte RMAs, each one had a new and different issue (#1 was dead, #2 had artifacts, and #3 was only a cosmetic issue, the card's shroud was cracked, but it worked fine).

If you are happy now with your current board I'd stay with it, but I'd go ahead and RMA the MSI board and then test it, and sell it either on eBay or Craigslist, or you might even check a brick and mortar computer store if you have one in your area and see if they buy used components.  Yeah, you'll take a loss and prob have a dislike for MSI products, but at least it's better than getting nothing for it.

At least the rig is working now.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

hapkiman said:


> Hey, I hear you bro.  An experience like that would sour anyone's opinion of a company.  I had a similar experience with a Gigabyte graphics card, and haven't bought any of their products since (3 RMAs in a row of the same card).   I will tell you this - I've got quite a few builds under my belt and my go to brand for boards is either ASUS or MSI.  My current board is an MSI Z170A Gaming M7, and it has hands down been the best and most trouble free mobo I've ever had.  I can't remember exactly how many MSI products I've had or bought over the years (a bunch), but I can only remember one MSI RMA I did on a Z97M board for a friend's build.  I was an easy peasy RMA, and the replacement worked fine.  I also remember an ASUS RMA for a card and it went pretty much trouble free as well.  EVGA is probably #1 in customer service from my experience (they do cross shipping and you get the RMA in a few days), but I didn't think MSI was that bad.
> 
> If you are happy now with your current board I'd stay with it, but I'd go ahead and RMA the MSI board and then test it, and sell it either on eBay or Craigslist, or you might even check a brick and mortar computer store if you have one in your area and see if they buy used components.  Yeah, you'll take a loss and prob have a dislike for MSI products, but at least it's better than getting nothing for it.
> 
> At least the rig is working now.



Yeah, my only recourse may be an RMA and selling the board...which is a shame.


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## BiggieShady (Nov 5, 2016)

Jetster said:


> What if they just repair the board


Well, they always send refurbished boards AFAIK so the original repaired board will go to someone else


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## Aquinus (Nov 5, 2016)

BiggieShady said:


> Well, they always send refurbished boards AFAIK so the original repaired board will go to someone else


The re-certified drives I get from Western Digital to replace failed ones are almost always rock solid. More rock solid than the ones I buy. Refurbished does mean it has had to go through usually more rigorous QA because it used to have a problem they want to make sure it has been resolved (because RMAs cost companies money and time too.)

So, @mrw1986. When you tested your current machine, was it always in your tower and was it also in your tower when you tested the other motherboard? Did you ever try to boot the bad board ouside of the chassis to make sure what you were encountering wasn't something like a short?


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## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> The re-certified drives I get from Western Digital to replace failed ones are almost always rock solid. More rock solid than the ones I buy. Refurbished does mean it has had to go through usually more rigorous QA because it used to have a problem they want to make sure it has been resolved (because RMAs cost companies money and time too.)
> 
> So, @mrw1986. When you tested your current machine, was it always in your tower and was it also in your tower when you tested the other motherboard? Did you ever try to boot the bad board ouside of the chassis to make sure what you were encountering wasn't something like a short?



It was always tested on a test bench in a bare bones environment. I've been doing this 20 years, so it's not my first rodeo 

To add to that, all boards were tested in a 100% identical environment.


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## Athlon2K15 (Nov 5, 2016)

I had tons of similar issues with my MSI X99 Gaming 9 ACK, I ended up throwing it in the trash and getting an Asus.


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## qubit (Nov 5, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> (because RMAs cost companies money and time too.)


Yes indeed, so it does make me wonder why companies play games like the OP is seeing. Makes no sense at all. I suspect internal politics and cutbacks in the company may have something to do with it.


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## Aquinus (Nov 5, 2016)

qubit said:


> Yes indeed, so it does make me wonder why companies play games like the OP is seeing. Makes no sense at all. I suspect internal politics and cutbacks in the company may have something to do with it.


You say this like they are playing a game, it costs them money to pay for shipping back to their facility and to try and repair or replace the board. They is absolutely no reason to just send the old board back unless they were unable to reproduce the problem. I have serious reservations about the same problem happening to several replacement boards. Same thing happened to my dishwasher and it ended up being a completely different part because the part that was going bad (a thermistor,) was still registering a valid voltage range for the sensor so it wasn't throwing a code. Problem was that it was detecting 200 degrees Fahrenheit at room temperature but, 200 degrees isn't an unrealistic temperature for a washing machine with the heating element turned on.

So, while it may look, feel, and taste like the motherboard. Just remember that it might be something completely non-obvious that's connected to the motherboard. I just have a hard time believing the same exact problem was had on several different replacements and that it's probably more likely that it's the combination of hardware than an individual device like the motherboard.

It's too bad that it doesn't look like that motherboard has a 7-segment display to output BIOS codes. That's the first thing I check on both my tower or gateway server when it doesn't POST.


----------



## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> You say this like they are playing a game, it costs them money to pay for shipping back to their facility and to try and repair or replace the board. They is absolutely no reason to just send the old board back unless they were unable to reproduce the problem. I have serious reservations about the same problem happening to several replacement boards. Same thing happened to my dishwasher and it ended up being a completely different part because the part that was going bad (a thermistor,) was still registering a valid voltage range for the sensor so it wasn't throwing a code. Problem was that it was detecting 200 degrees Fahrenheit at room temperature but, 200 degrees isn't an unrealistic temperature for a washing machine with the heating element turned on.
> 
> So, while it may look, feel, and taste like the motherboard. Just remember that it might be something completely non-obvious that's connected to the motherboard. I just have a hard time believing the same exact problem was had on several different replacements and that it's probably more likely that it's the combination of hardware than an individual device like the motherboard.
> 
> It's too bad that it doesn't look like that motherboard has a 7-segment display to output BIOS codes. That's the first thing I check on both my tower or gateway server when it doesn't POST.



The difference here is the sheer amount of testing I put everything through. There is no reason my components shouldn't have worked.

When I called MSI they informed me if the diag LED didnt light up it meant the board was defective. All the boards exhibited that symptom.

Every avenue was explored and considering this has happened to others with the same board or other MSI X99 boards it doesn't seem that far-fetched.


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## Aquinus (Nov 5, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> The difference here is the sheer amount of testing I put everything through. There is no reason my components shouldn't have worked.
> 
> When I called MSI they informed me if the diag LED didnt light up it meant the board was defective. All the boards exhibited that symptom.
> 
> Every avenue was explored and considering this has happened to others with the same board or other MSI X99 boards it doesn't seem that far-fetched.


I understand, that doesn't mean that it's not something you wouldn't expect though. If that's the equivalent of failing to initialize the CPU, that could be a lot of different things and not just the motherboard. You said you used your buddy's X99 board, did you try using his hardware with your board instead of your hardware with his board? As I said, this very well could be the combination of your hardware with this board.

I would be careful to confuse a crappy motherboard with bad RMA service. It sounds like MSI actually did a good job with RMA but, that you just kept having the same problem which may not be limited to a single defective board but rather some incompatibility or something really stupid like a loose contact on a connector.


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## alucasa (Nov 5, 2016)

You should have played lottery instead of doing RMA game.

Would have been far more beneficial.


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## Aquinus (Nov 5, 2016)

alucasa said:


> You should have played lottery instead of doing RMA game.
> 
> Would have been far more beneficial.


If this were my P9X79 Deluxe when I first got it, a 380 USD "lottery" is a freaking expensive gamble. RMA is the cheaper option than just outright buying a new HEDT board.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> I understand, that doesn't mean that it's not something you wouldn't expect though. If that's the equivalent of failing to initialize the CPU, that could be a lot of different things and not just the motherboard. You said you used your buddy's X99 board, did you try using his hardware with your board instead of your hardware with his board? As I said, this very well could be the combination of your hardware with this board.
> 
> I would be careful to confuse a crappy motherboard with bad RMA service. It sounds like MSI actually did a good job with RMA but, that you just kept having the same problem which may not be limited to a single defective board but rather some incompatibility or something really stupid like a loose contact on a connector.



I wrote in an earlier post that we used his hardware in my replacement boards, all with the same results.

Additionally, there is no logic in the board working for 8 months then suddenly not working and the problem being my components.

I also tested another set of components from a different friend with the same results (it helps to work in the tech industry with loads of friends who have high end setups).


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## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

Essentially - the problem stems from the boards. There is a greater chance the boards were bad (this wouldn't be the first time with MSI) than so many tested and working components being bad or incompatible.


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## Aquinus (Nov 5, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> I wrote in an earlier post that we used his hardware in my replacement boards, all with the same results.
> 
> Additionally, there is no logic in the board working for 8 months then suddenly not working and the problem being my components.
> 
> I also tested another set of components from a different friend with the same results (it helps to work in the tech industry with loads of friends who have high end setups).


I think saying that we don't know what's going on would be a more accurate statement than that you got several defective boards with the same issue because you really don't know why it's not working because there aren't enough details like a board outputting BIOS codes would. All I'm saying is that lack of a better explanation doesn't make your explanation correct. All we know is that your hardware with this board worked then stopped working. Your failure to try your board with hardware other than your own is a pretty big hole when trying to determine if it's a compatibility or hardware issue with the combination of hardware being used.

All you've determined is that your motherboard doesn't work with your hardware anymore. Nothing more.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

Just Google 'MSI RMA review' if you need further proof.


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## EarthDog (Nov 5, 2016)

I don't think they were playing games either. They sent a replacement board each time to the user... not trying to repair the same board. What more could they have done (outside of refunding his money)? Maybe some low level employee pulled off the top be repaired pile three times? 

Just for the record, you can Google any issue with any board or company and get hits.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> I think saying that we don't know what's going on would be a more accurate statement than that you got several defective boards with the same issue because you really don't know why it's not working because there aren't enough details like a board outputting BIOS codes would. All I'm saying is that lack of a better explanation doesn't make your explanation correct.



The board never playing POST beeps when hooked up to a buzzer is a bad sign. They didn't even beep when RAM wasn't installed (which it should be three long beeps).

And I know the buzzer works, I tested it in a different board.

MSI admitted to me that if the diag LED doesn't light it means the board is defective. All the boards did not light.


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## Aquinus (Nov 5, 2016)

EarthDog said:


> Just for the record, you can Google any issue with any board or company and get hits.


My motherboard had terrible reviews on NewEgg before I got it. Fortunately I trust our @cadaveca more than some random schmuck on the internet. 


mrw1986 said:


> The board never playing POST beeps when hooked up to a buzzer is a bad sign. They didn't even beep when RAM wasn't installed (which it should be three long beeps).
> 
> And I know the buzzer works, I tested it in a different board.
> 
> MSI admitted to me that if the diag LED doesn't light it means the board is defective. All the boards did not light.


Which means nothing if you haven't tried a different CPU. Not all motherboard carp about the same problems. My point is that there is a lot we don't know and you're making some pretty plain assumptions without actually knowing what the deal is. All we know is that it doesn't work with your hardware and that switching PSUs didn't make a difference, really nothing else.

If you didn't try a different CPU or memory module in your board, I can't say you fully tested it but in your defense, most people don't have another skt2011-3 CPU to test with.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> My motherboard had terrible reviews on NewEgg before I got it. Fortunately I trust our @cadaveca more than some random schmuck on the internet.



Many of these 'random schmucks' may be highly technically literate. It wouldn't be prudent to rule them out.

And yes, I know people are more likely to complain than praise. But why not listen to both sides?


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## Aquinus (Nov 5, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> Many of these 'random schmucks' may be highly technically literate. It wouldn't be prudent to rule them out.
> 
> And yes, I know people are more likely to complain than praise. But why not listen to both sides?


...because when you have someone like @cadaveca who you can talk to about a device that he has, you get a little more insight than just reading a review. You can also find out pretty fast if buyer reviews are garbage or not by what they're saying. I find that most aren't technically literate and are just good at regurgitating specs.


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## BiggieShady (Nov 5, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> All we know is that your hardware with this board worked then stopped working. Your failure to try your board with hardware other than your own is a pretty big hole when trying to determine if it's a compatibility or hardware issue with the combination of hardware being used.


I'm confused now ... I have read the thread and OP claims he did test hardware other than his own with all the boards they have sent, every time.

@mrw1986 did you test the board on your friend's PSU and with his CPU? If all the power connectors were connected and working, the board should at least "light up" ...


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## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

BiggieShady said:


> I'm confused now ... I have read the thread and OP claims he did test hardware other than his own with all the boards they have sent, every time.
> 
> @mrw1986 did you test the board on your friend's PSU and with his CPU? If all the power connectors were connected and working, the board should at least "light up" ...



That's correct, tested with all his hardware as well. I also used 3 of my other PSUs as well.

I'm not sure Aquinus read the whole thread, but I honestly can't blame him - it's rather long. Although, I think it's mentioned in the OP.


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## BiggieShady (Nov 5, 2016)

Right now I'm imagining a band of evil RMA representatives stealing from their employer (and their customers) using this not so elaborate scheme:

step 1: instead of recycling non-fixable dead boards he keeps them on a pile
step 2: sends a dead board from the pile and keeps a refurb for himself
step 3: ebay profit

Unlikely but possible if their wages are low ... at least more likely than conspiracy on the company level ...

... now where did I put my tinfoil hat ... dammit gotta make a new one


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## qubit (Nov 5, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> You say this like they are playing a game, it costs them money to pay for shipping back to their facility and to try and repair or replace the board. They is absolutely no reason to just send the old board back unless they were unable to reproduce the problem. I have serious reservations about the same problem happening to several replacement boards. Same thing happened to my dishwasher and it ended up being a completely different part because the part that was going bad (a thermistor,) was still registering a valid voltage range for the sensor so it wasn't throwing a code. Problem was that it was detecting 200 degrees Fahrenheit at room temperature but, 200 degrees isn't an unrealistic temperature for a washing machine with the heating element turned on.
> 
> So, while it may look, feel, and taste like the motherboard. Just remember that it might be something completely non-obvious that's connected to the motherboard. I just have a hard time believing the same exact problem was had on several different replacements and that it's probably more likely that it's the combination of hardware than an individual device like the motherboard.
> 
> It's too bad that it doesn't look like that motherboard has a 7-segment display to output BIOS codes. That's the first thing I check on both my tower or gateway server when it doesn't POST.


I know it makes no sense to return duff motherboards all the time. Whatever the reason for it, the company can be considered to be "playing games" if they keep returning bad boards all the time, from the customer's point of view. The reason for it doesn't really matter, it's the fact that they're not fixing our stuff which does, so something has clearly failed at MSI. I was just musing on the possible reasons for it.

I agree that three boards all with the same problem seems very unlikely in the first instance, however, it's not impossible. If you read a few posts up, before and after your post, you'll see that mrw has used a completely different set of components, including the CPU and PSU, all of which resulted in the same problem. On top of that, his components and the alternate ones all worked in a different mobo. That's a double verify on a bad MSI board. Therefore, the only thing one can reasonably conclude here is that it's very likely to be three boards with the same fault, as unlikely as it seems. Clearly mrw is very technically literate, so I trust his judgement that he hasn't missed something silly, which would confound the testing.


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## qubit (Nov 5, 2016)

Sorry for the double post, but I want this to be in its own post.

@mrw1986 , just thought of something. How about clearing the CMOS and using a fresh battery? You could even try running without the battery for testing. I've seen boards look dead due to a corrupted CMOS before. You've got nothing to lose!


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## thesmokingman (Nov 5, 2016)

The OP has had a crazy number of rmas. Hard to believe? Too bad for you, it does actually happen.

I just logged into the Corsair Customer Portal. How many rma's can you count below??? 3 RMA's for the same part number, until I complained loudly, and they finally sent a completely new product. Why did I have so many RMA's for CH-9000020-NA? It's a product with a known design flaw and they just kept sending one defective replacement after the other. There is nothing built into their process to stop the madness. It would have continued if I had not said WTF Corsair?!

Ticket Number

*Subject* *Status* *Last Status Update* *Date/Time Opened
6704923* CH-9000020-NA Processing 12/15/2015 11:47 AM 11/26/2015 8:19 PM
*6636049* CH-9000020-NA Processing 8/13/2015 1:17 PM 6/15/2015 10:45 AM
*6566739* CH-9000020-NA SHIPPED   12/31/2014 8:40 PM


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## Mr.Scott (Nov 5, 2016)

qubit said:


> Sorry for the double post, but I want this to be in its own post.
> 
> @mrw1986 , just thought of something. How about clearing the CMOS and using a fresh battery? You could even try running without the battery for testing. I've seen boards look dead due to a corrupted CMOS before. You've got nothing to lose!


On three different boards?.............
I doubt it. He's done everything right so far.


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## qubit (Nov 5, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> On three different boards?.............


No, he can only clear the CMOS on the latest board as he hasn't got the others. Read my post immediately above it and you'll see why it looks very much like three boards all with the same fault.


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## Mr.Scott (Nov 5, 2016)

I read the whole thread thank you.
As I said, I doubt it.
3 dead boards from MSI is much more believable.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 5, 2016)

qubit said:


> Sorry for the double post, but I want this to be in its own post.
> 
> @mrw1986 , just thought of something. How about clearing the CMOS and using a fresh battery? You could even try running without the battery for testing. I've seen boards look dead due to a corrupted CMOS before. You've got nothing to lose!



I already tried that, along with the bios selection switch, etc. Also bought new batteries, etc.


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## qubit (Nov 5, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> I read the whole thread thank you.
> As I said, I doubt it.
> *3 dead boards from MSI is much more believable.*


Three dead boards from MSI is what I'm saying. You've misunderstood what I've said.



mrw1986 said:


> I already tried that, along with the bios selection switch, etc. Also bought new batteries, etc.


Ok fair enough.


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## Mr.Scott (Nov 5, 2016)

lol, I didn't misunderstand anything.
3 dead boards = 3 dead boards.
A new battery won't fix that. And if the guy is smart enough to check individual components in known good system and double check by using known good parts in his dead system, then I can assume he knows how to and has tried a CMOS clear. That's usually the first thing you do.


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## qubit (Nov 6, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> lol, I didn't misunderstand anything.
> 3 dead boards = 3 dead boards.
> A new battery won't fix that. And if the guy is smart enough to check individual components in known good system and double check by using known good parts in his dead system, then I can assume he knows how to and has tried a CMOS clear. That's usually the first thing you do.


You seem confused about the course of events here, but frankly I don't care for going round in circles with you. Believe what you want.


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## Mr.Scott (Nov 6, 2016)

I believe what the OP says in post #89, and in common deductive tech procedures, which rules your solutions out. The boards are dead....all of them. Yes, I'm saying he was sent dead boards for his RMA's. You can wish they can be fixed that easily, but in reality it ain't happening.
MSI still owes him at least a board.
Come and see me again when you know what you're talking about.


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## gottistar (Nov 12, 2016)

OneMoar said:


> I am not entirely sure you don't have something else going on with that machine
> 3 boards in a row ... that smells fishy to me


 i rckn its sounds like hes end, i mean what are the chances of that many returns??  ive had  MSI for years without a single return EVER !!


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## SomeOne99h (Nov 12, 2016)

BiggieShady said:


> Right now I'm imagining a band of evil RMA representatives stealing from their employer (and their customers) using this not so elaborate scheme:
> step 1: instead of recycling non-fixable dead boards he keeps them on a pile
> step 2: sends a dead board from the pile and keeps a refurb for himself
> step 3: ebay profit
> ...


Been reading Newegg reviews on motherboard part since 2006, seen many times people complaining about their motherboard dead on arrival 4 or 3 times in a raw. Sounds suspicious!


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## Dethroy (Nov 12, 2016)

Even if MSI supposedly did nothing wrong on their part regarding the RMA process, I'd still expect them to give you a refund (of some sort) after the 2nd or 3rd RMA - that's what any reputable customer service should do.


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## gottistar (Nov 12, 2016)

Dethroy said:


> Even if MSI supposedly did nothing wrong on their part regarding the RMA process, I'd still expect them to give you a refund (of some sort) after the 2nd or 3rd RMA - that's what any reputable customer service should do.


  Dat true, id be banging my head against the wall after the 3rd


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## MIG 29 (Nov 18, 2016)

My son received 2 DOA Z97 boards from MSI a few years ago.


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## Evo85 (Nov 18, 2016)

I have to say I have had pretty good luck with MSI personally. I have owned multiple MB's and video cards from them, and I only have had one issue which I caused when I accidentally shorted out the CPU fan header on a MB from them. I called support to see if it was repairable, and they did an RMA on it. Even though I admitted I caused the problem. 

 But, maybe support has went down hill since then....


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## MIG 29 (Nov 18, 2016)

I never had issues with their cards either , very good quality.


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## Octopuss (Nov 20, 2016)

I do have relatively fresh experience with MSI technical support. Completely useless replies written in borderline broken english. Typical trained chimps support. At least they weren't indian though. Also better than Gigabyte, where you don't even get an answer.


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## Komshija (Nov 21, 2016)

I have only good experience with MSI motherboards, starting from 645 Ultra, K7N2 Delta 2, 970A G43 to Z170A Krait Gaming 3X. But manufacturers should provide much better customer support than they are currently offering. The bigger the company, the less likely they'll reply to you - that's my experience so far with various companies and/or corporations.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 23, 2016)

Hi everyone!

So, I have an update. A couple of weeks ago I filed complaints with the BBB, California Department of Consumer Affairs, and the Los Angeles County Department of Consumer Affairs.

I received a call from MSI two nights ago stating they were responding to my complaints. They informed me that they couldn't process a refund, but they would be willing to upgrade me to a brand new, not refurbished, higher model X99 motherboard or a graphics card. They had me specify in an email what I was interested in, within reason. I told them I would like a GTX 1070. The next day, they responded and said they would be more than happy to give me the GTX 1070 in exchange for my dead board.

At first they offered me a brand new Founder's Edition GTX 1070, but I'm not a fan of the cooler on that card. They then offered me a refurbished GTX 1070 Gaming X 8GB which I told them I would gladly accept. They assured me it will carry the remainder of my motherboard's warranty, which is another 2 years. Last night they sent me the UPS Return Label and RMA slip for the motherboard. Once received, they will ship out the 1070.

There's almost a $200 price difference between the motherboard and the 1070, so in this case it seems they really went above and beyond for me, granted, it took several RMAs, many phone calls, and complaints to various bureaus.


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## P4-630 (Nov 23, 2016)




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## GreiverBlade (Nov 23, 2016)

P4-630 said:


>


seconded  good one


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## Vario (Nov 23, 2016)

I had a similar problem with Gigabyte.

My Gigabyte 7970 model GV-R797OC-3GD:  RMA'd it 3x, each time got a crappier card. These cards were not stable enough to sit in Windows let alone game on them.  Even underclocking them would not make them stable.

I think they were different cards each time because the obvious bad quality soldering repairs were in different places.  Maybe it was because of the Litecoin epidemic at the time and Gigabyte was too swamped with RMAs to bother to repair the cards properly.

I ended up buying a brand new PNY 770 2GB and selling the 7970 to a miner with some disclaimer like "factory refurbished no warranties talk to Gigabyte".  Because of Litecoin bubble, I sold the card for double what I paid for it.

I don't know if all Gigabyte videocards are terrible or if the RMA department was swamped with Litecoin damaged cards but it soured my opinion of the brand.

Too bad because the 7970 would have been a nice card to have with the 1GB more Vram and the still relevant GCN driver support.

The 770 still works perfectly and has been the most reliable graphics card I've had so atleast thats the silver lining.

My Gigabyte motherboard still works fine and is reasonably reliable.  Its a sub par overclocker with bad memory compatibility but is trouble free.  I have to run a beta bios to support my samsung greens, and I can't exactly overclock them or my CPU as far as the Asrock z77 board I used to have.

I've reached the conclusion that all the brands have shitty RMA service and its all luck whether they will escalate the claim to a competent person, or just keep churning out bad repair jobs in an endless loop until you give up.  There are Fanbois for all these brands that insist their brand is the most reliable with the best customer service, and that is bullshit.  Corsair fanbois are probably the worst in this regard.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 23, 2016)

Vario said:


> I had a similar problem with Gigabyte.
> 
> My Gigabyte 7970 model GV-R797OC-3GD:  RMA'd it 3x, each time got a crappier card. These cards were not stable enough to sit in Windows let alone game on them.  Even underclocking them would not make them stable.
> 
> ...



I think a large portion of the shitty RMA service is because most brands outsource it. I only know of a handful of brands that perform in-house RMA (EVGA being one of them).


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## Vario (Nov 23, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> I think a large portion of the shitty RMA service is because most brands outsource it. I only know of a handful of brands that perform in-house RMA (EVGA being one of them).


I buy motherboards from Amazon.com now.

Why? 30 day no hassle return.  Don't have to deal with the manufacturer.  Newegg forces you to RMA DOA boards and with that you are most likely shit out of luck.

I also don't like Amazon, and don't really give a shit about returning products to them anymore.

I had to return a DOA Z77E ITX and it was super easy. If I bought that board from Newegg I would have had to RMA it to Asrock, which would have probably resulted in a bad experience.


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## FreedomEclipse (Nov 23, 2016)

First of all -- great result. the 1070 Gaming X is an excellent card -- Im still in the process of overclocking mine but so far I have the core at +150 ontop of its original overclock. Im bumping clocks up 10-15mhz at a time after a session of BF1.



Vario said:


> I buy motherboards from Amazon.com now.
> 
> Why? 30 day no hassle return.  Don't have to deal with the manufacturer.  Newegg forces you to RMA DOA boards and with that you are most likely shit out of luck.
> 
> ...




I cant really speak for Amazon.com but with their UK dept they have always been fairly helpful when I have had issues with faulty products. I think ive had only one occasion where the amazon rep fobbed me off and sent me on an impossible task of seeking an RMA for something that didnt even cost $20 with a company that had now way of RMA'ing directly and whose website directed me back to the retailer if i needed to return something.... Went back onto livechat, made a complaint about getting fobbed off and received a small voucher to have $6 off my next purchase. 

Im actually an amazon prime member now and i recently had to get on livechat with them for the first time after not receiving a GoW4 game code with the purchase of my 1070. The amount of ass kissing was just blatantly obvious... Amazon service was good before but now they bend over backwards if youre a prime member.


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## mrw1986 (Nov 23, 2016)

FreedomEclipse said:


> First of all -- great result. the 1070 Gaming X is an excellent card -- Im still in the process of overclocking mine but so far I have the core at +150 ontop of its original overclock. Im bumping clocks up 10-15mhz at a time after a session of BF1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree, I've been a Prime member for 6 years now - they have gone above and beyond for ANY requests I've ever had. I've also received so many credits from them as compensation.


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## Ungari (Nov 23, 2016)

mrw1986 said:


> I think a large portion of the shitty RMA service is because most brands outsource it. I only know of a handful of brands that perform in-house RMA (EVGA being one of them).



I tried forever to get somebody to answer a phone, the person who answered was a mongoloid, transfers my call, and while I'm waiting I get disconnected.


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