# HDTV Plasma for PC monitor



## 2Charlie (Jul 22, 2012)

I just bough a Panasonic TC-P50UT50 and hooked up to my computer via HDMI. Two problems I've seen. First, even in landscape mode, the whole window still goes beyond the screen that I had to manually go into Nvidia control/Display/Adjust desktop size and position/Size tab and re-size the screen from 1920x1080 to 1824x1036. 

My second problem is a bigger one. The screen (especially against white background) looks like the screen is not still/stable. It looks like things are moving against white background. This looks to me when the refresh rate is set incorrect; however, I did set to 1920x1080 at 60hz. What else can I do or troubleshoot this issue. I previously had a Sony Bravia KDL-40SL140 LCD HDTV and it was working just fine. So, I understand why it was not working better under a plasma HDTV. I already noticed that playing MKV file is way better under this plasma than the Sony LCD HDTV I previously had. If I can only resolve this refresh symptom like problem, I'm golden.

Any help is much appreciated.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 22, 2012)

Plasma suffer from burn-in like CRTs do.  The start menu bar, icons on the desktop that never move, and the wallpaper (if never changed) will get burned in to the screen.

According to the specs, it appears that the screen is only 48 Hz, hence the non-smooth image:
http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P50UT50?t=specs

Your Bravia was a CCFL LCD.


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## Jstn7477 (Jul 22, 2012)

The first problem deals with display scaling, which is either a setting on the TV or in the NVIDIA control panel. This is why I disliked having a 22" HDMI TV as my monitor before going with a real computer monitor.

Secondly, Plasma TVs are not exactly ideal for computer use (other than gaming or movies) because they have to constantly shift the pixels around to prevent burn in from static images. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_shifting


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## AsRock (Jul 22, 2012)

Scaling might make it look a lot better and you might want to try gaming mode on the TV too.  You could all so check to make sure it's on the latest firmware.

EDIT: Ooh make sure you have the aspect ratio set right on the TV.


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## techguy31 (Jul 22, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Plasma suffer from burn-in like CRTs do.  The start menu bar, icons on the desktop that never move, and the wallpaper (if never changed) will get burned in to the screen.
> 
> According to the specs, it appears that the screen is only 48 Hz, hence the non-smooth image:
> http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P50UT50?t=specs
> ...



Actually, new gen plasmas don't suffer from burn-in anymore.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 22, 2012)

Okay, so the main story is, LCD/LED is better being PC monitor than plasma?


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 22, 2012)

Yup.



techguy31 said:


> Actually, new gen plasmas don't suffer from burn-in anymore.


Yeah, they do.  There's technologies in them that make it take longer (like pixel shifting) but they will still burn.


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## qubit (Jul 22, 2012)

You should be able to set a 1:1 pixel ratio to avoid the overscanned picture.

Also, plasmas _do_ still suffer from burn in. It sounds like  the pixel orbiter is active on your TV (which is there to prevent burn in...) so you want to disable it while trying to adjust the picture.


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## techguy31 (Jul 22, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Okay, so the main story is, LCD/LED is better being PC monitor than plasma?



Yes, but if you want spectacular picture, I would go for plasmas.  Reason is because plasmas produce the most accurate and stunning picture and color.  All that LED/LCD gimmick will never be able to produce the same or accurate color and picture as a plasma.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 22, 2012)

Okay, so back to my question #2. How do minimize (if any) about the refresh rate like issues? This problem is especially apparent against white background? What does this issue even called?



> You should be able to set a 1:1 pixel ratio to avoid the overscanned picture.


Where and how do I do that? Are you saying setting the pixel on the TV remote control or on my Nvidia control panel? I did try to set the video "format" on the TV's remote control but it didn't really do anything.


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## qubit (Jul 22, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Where and how do I do that? Are you saying setting the pixel on the TV remote control or on my Nvidia control panel? I did try to set the video "format" on the TV's remote control but it didn't really do anything.



It'll be a combination of the nvidia control panel and your TV's options. I can't speak for the specifics of your TV, but in the nvidia control panel, go to Display > Adjust desktop size and position. Then set scaling to no scaling and a resolution of 1920x1080 at 60Hz. You'll then have to figure out the appropriate option on your TV. It is a 1080p TV isn't it? If not, then that TV doesn't haven't a hope in hell of displaying a 1080p picture properly.

And yes, if course your TV supports a 60Hz input, unlike the 48Hz limit you were advised back there.


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## Aquinus (Jul 22, 2012)

I have a plasma and it will burn in. If you do decide to use plasma, I recommend hiding your start menu, setting a low duration for your screen saver, and having your background shift every 5 minutes or so.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 22, 2012)

I tried this:





The format that are available on my particular Panasonic HDTV plasma is Full, Just, 4:3, and Zoom. It's still not right. The windows quick launch bar (Window's orb/start up) is way/hidden on the bottom as well as all other three sides. Any other suggestion is appreciated.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 22, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> I have a plasma and it will burn in. If you do decide to use plasma, I recommend hiding your start menu, setting a low duration for your screen saver, and having your background shift every 5 minutes or so.



For screen saver, is it better to pick the "Blank" option instead of other option such as bubbles or rotating photos?


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## qubit (Jul 22, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> I tried this:
> 
> http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n334/justLor/Nvidia-scalling.jpg
> The format that are available on my particular Panasonic HDTV plasma is Full, Just, 4:3, and Zoom. It's still not right. The windows quick launch bar (Window's orb/start up) is way/hidden on the bottom as well as all other three sides. Any other suggestion is appreciated.



Yes, you have the right control panel settings there and it sounds like Full or Just should have worked. Are there any other adjustments available on that TV? What about using a different input?

It's niggles like this that make it better to use a computer monitor than a TV, generally. Also, is it a 1080p TV? This is critical.


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## Aquinus (Jul 22, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> For screen saver, is it better to pick the "Blank" option instead of other option such as bubbles or rotating photos?



Blank will use less power, but anything that is moving or displays nothing. The key is not having the same thing (static image in the same place,) up for a long period of time.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 22, 2012)

qubit said:


> Yes, you have the right control panel settings there and it sounds like Full or Just should have worked. Are there any other adjustments available on that TV? What about using a different input?
> 
> It's niggles like this that make it better to use a computer monitor than a TV, generally. Also, is it a 1080p TV? This is critical.



Yes, it's a full 1080P HDTV plasma. There's nothing I've found so far on the TV to set it.

What about my second problem stated in my initial post?


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## qubit (Jul 22, 2012)

It's possible that the TV just won't play well with the PC then, unfortunately. Without being able to faff around with it myself I'm out of options. You could try updating the driver if its not the latest version, but I don't think that will help.

Ok, can you describe that second problem in a bit more detail, please? What kind of instability are we talking about? Is it a kind of rotating movement? Perhaps that's the pixel orbiter doing its job?

I'd say that both problems are equally important.


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## Aquinus (Jul 22, 2012)

You know, I have the 42" version of that TV so maybe I can help out a little bit. Mine does the same thing with all of my displays. I think it is how the TV scales the image. I don't have a nVidia card handy, but I tend to have to adjust the overscan at 1080p. Where my laptop might handle one set of settings, my PC will be completely different (even though they're both AMD GPUs, Mobility Radeon 3650 on the laptop and the 6870 on my tower). I haven't experienced the jitter you describe though. I run it at 1920x1080 with overscan/underscan adjustments that usually work pretty well. I'm assuming you're refresh is set to 60hz? Do you have any options for adjusting that?

Also does the jitter exist on other devices? qubit could be right and it might just be the pixel orbiter.


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## MainframeTM (Jul 22, 2012)

A couple months or so back I picked up a 60inch plasma 3dhd tv and love hooking my pc up to it sometimes. The colors seem better then my 45inch lcd hdtv I use as my primary monitor. All in all a good experience and as mentioned no real issues with burn in anymore. Thou not my primary due to the sheer size and having to sit so far away. But I'd still tell anyone to give it a go. If you can set it up just right it adds so much more to your favorite games.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 22, 2012)

Jstn7477 said:


> The first problem deals with display scaling, which is either a setting on the TV or in the NVIDIA control panel.



I have found that the first problem is more to do with Nvidia's resizing feature being a bit tricky to use, esp in W7. Worse yet it has NO indication how to use it properly.

Most assume when the image doesn't fit the screen they have to accept a smaller pixel size after it's resized, well, no, you don't. A neighbor of mine had this issue with his Dynex HDTV after switching to W7. In XP when it resized it kept the full 1:1 pixel mapping, meaning the res stayed the same, as it should. If a display scaling feature is working properly, it should only change pixel size, not res.

I recently bought my first LCD HDTV, a Panasonic, and I had the same problem in W7. Before you resize, make sure your TV is in it's 1:1 pixel mapping AR mode. For my TV it's called "Full". The wording varies from brand to brand. When you resize a given resolution, say 1920x1080p, if you go back into the resolution settings and change from the newly made res size back to 1920x1080p, the 1080p res will now also fit the screen properly.

What's even more weird is sometimes you have to resize each res you use, and sometimes certain resolutions will just automatically fit the screen. I'm not sure Nvidia are even aware of this, and it may even vary from driver to driver as far as what you experience. 

My friend was certain it was specifically a MS screw up in W7, but after finding out how to fix it, I'm almost certain Nvidia are just at much if not more responsible for it. Just the fact that they don't seem to acknowledge it or tell you how to work around it in the Nvidia Control Panel makes them look rather irresponsible.

As for the other problem, I don't know what could be causing that, and I've never owned a plasma before, although it could very well be a refresh setting issue as suggested.


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## qubit (Jul 22, 2012)

It sounds like a bug in the nividia driver, frag maniac. I think you might have hit on the solution.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> I run it at 1920x1080 with overscan/underscan adjustments that usually work pretty well. I'm assuming you're refresh is set to 60hz? Do you have any options for adjusting that?
> 
> Also does the jitter exist on other devices? qubit could be right and it might just be the pixel orbiter.



I already tried those options: overscan/underscan and it is already in 60hz but I still see the jittering. It was not too bad against black or dark background though.


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## qubit (Jul 23, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> I already tried those options: overscan/underscan and it is already in 60hz but I still see the jittering. It was not too bad against black or dark background though.



Have you tried what frag maniac suggested? I think that might be the solution.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

qubit said:


> Have you tried what frag maniac suggested? I think that might be the solution.



Yes, I did try. I also did a driver re-installation and it's the same problem. Here's what I did:





 For now as far as the screen size go, I may have to stick with that; however, the white background jittering is going on. I'm not sure where else to set, Nvidia, Windows 7, or the TV itself.

Many thanks for those have responded to my questions.


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## qubit (Jul 23, 2012)

It should work without resizing from the driver. Resizing must in fact must be turned off, or it will destroy 1:1 pixel mapping. Setting the driver to no scaling and the TV to Full/Just as apprpriate should give a proper picture. By the sound of it though, you've tried this and it didn't work.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

qubit said:


> It should work without resizing from the driver. Resizing must in fact must be turned off, or it will destroy 1:1 pixel mapping. Setting the driver to no scaling and the TV to Full/Just as apprpriate should give a proper picture. By the sound of it though, you've tried this and it didn't work.



Yes, I've tried that and it didn't work...thus, what I've shown in the picture above is my last resort.

Another thing with my Panasonic HDTV plasma, it changes the brightness if I've launched an application, window, or anything that has a white background and then TV will slowly brighten up to normal again. Is there a way to turn this off?


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## Aquinus (Jul 23, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Yes, I've tried that and it didn't work...thus, what I've shown in the picture above is my last resort.
> 
> Another thing with my Panasonic HDTV plasma, it changes the brightness if I've launched an application, window, or anything that has a white background and then TV will slowly brighten up to normal again. Is there a way to turn this off?



Yeah, that's the dynamic contrast feature. It's kind of annoying.


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## qubit (Jul 23, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Yes, I've tried that and it didn't work...thus, what I've shown in the picture above is my last resort.
> 
> Another thing with my Panasonic HDTV plasma, it changes the brightness if I've launched an application, window, or anything that has a white background and then TV will slowly brighten up to normal again. Is there a way to turn this off?



That sounds like automatic brightness level control at work there. If there's no override in the options, then no, there's no way to turn it off. Try lowering the overall brightness by say, 30% and see if you still get this. If not, keep turning it up bit by bit until you start seeing this effect again and then back off slightly.

I'm surprised that this TV is giving you so much trouble. I've got two friends with Panasonic plasmas and they don't have any problem with them.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

Aquinus said:


> Yeah, that's the dynamic contrast feature. It's kind of annoying.



Yeah, so, is there a way to turn it off? You're right, it's annoying. I have a plasma Samsung hdtv that does that too depending on brightness of the room.


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Jul 23, 2012)

Feature? Sounds just like the well known bug the models had from last year, but that should have been fixed by now. Mine does it but it's far less noticeable on the 42" models.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 23, 2012)

It's worked on my Panny TV ever since I stumbled on that workaround via trial and error through several driver updates and it works even on my friend's Dynex, despite his skepticism that it would.

Make sure when you do it that you apply the resize (vs just resizing) and go back to the res selector to make sure it shows as a slightly downsized res. Then and only then reset it to 1080p. 

Also, before you do anything make sure your TV is set to it's AR mode that's 1:1 pixel mapping. For a Panny that would probably be the one that says "Full", accessed via the Format button on the remote.

Part of what made my friend skeptical is his lack of faith in W7, but it was also that he wasn't taking the proper steps in doing the resizing as I'd instructed him.

As for the other problem, what was said about either auto contrast or brightness is likely it. As far as I know though, Panny always has a way in their menu to turn off such features. 

I worried about it last year when narrowing down my choices to a Panny set I was considering, then in my relief I found it could be turned off. I'm sure even if by some slim chance they've changed it so you can't turn it off, it could likely still be shut off via the service menu.

I'll check for the manual of that model and have a look and get back to you...

...moments later.

Yes, that set has C.A.T.S. (Contrast Automatic Tracking System). You turn it off simply by accessing Menu\Picture, and then scroll down to C.A.T.S. and set it to Off. Note that C.A.T.S. automatically adjusts contrast AND brightness, which can indeed cause a subtle flashing effect. Most don't seem to like it, I don't know why they bother putting it in every year. Maybe just keeping up with the Joneses in offering it perhaps. At least you can turn it off.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> Make sure when you do it that you apply the resize (vs just resizing) and go back to the res selector to make sure it shows as a slightly downsized res. Then and only then reset it to 1080p.
> 
> Also, before you do anything make sure your TV is set to it's AR mode that's 1:1 pixel mapping. For a Panny that would probably be the one that says "Full", accessed via the Format button on the remote.



I think that's what I did in my screen grabbed above. The screen seems to be fine under Windows 7 Screen Resolution, it's on 1920x1080 now although in Nvidia's Size tab, it's still under the resize resolution.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 23, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> I think that's what I did in my screen grabbed above. The screen seems to be fine under Windows 7 Screen Resolution, it's on 1920x1080 now although in Nvidia's Size tab, it's still under the resize resolution.



Thinking is not necessarily knowing my friend. I would double check to make sure. Also, if the res selection method via the W7 res slider doesn't work, try using the res selection option in NCP, where all standard and newly resized res options are shown. I think the latter is the way we had to do it with my friend's Dynex.

If this way doesn't work...






..try this way.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

Yes, both windows resolution selection and nvidia control panel shows 1920x1080 @ 60hz.


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## Mussels (Jul 23, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Yes, both windows resolution selection and nvidia control panel shows 1920x1080 @ 60hz.



thats just the max supported res. doesnt mean its native.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

Another thing I noticed from this 50" Panasonic HDTV is the fuzziness and unsharp texts and images but especially texts. Is this all normal of all big plasma hdtv for computer monitor? Are there ways to minimize this effect?


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## Mussels (Jul 23, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Another thing I noticed from this 50" Panasonic HDTV is the fuzziness and unsharp texts and images but especially texts. Is this all normal of all big plasma hdtv for computer monitor? Are there ways to minimize this effect?



in my experience, there are two kinds of HDTV's.


cheap crap that never looks good.
expensive stuff that looks good if set right.



i've got a 1360x768 old LED screen that looks better than most cheap, modern 1080p screens (text is FAR clearer).

i've also seen 42" plasma TV's sold that only do 1024x768 as their native resolution, and they just stretch the image to be '1080p compatible'


my advice is: set overscan in your video card software to 0%, set the TV to 'just scan" or 1:1 pixel mapping (whatever its called) and on ALL your HDMI inputs* (test them ALL! try VGA if the HDMI doesnt work!) try the following resolutions:

1024x768
1360x768
1366x760
1920x1080 (30Hz/60Hz interlaced)
1920x1080 (60Hz)


*on my samsung, only one of its three HDMI ports supports 1360x768. the others only do 720p and 1080i, and while they work fine for game consoles and movie playback, they look like arse with a PC.


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## qubit (Jul 23, 2012)

Mussels said:


> i've also seen 42" plasma TV's sold that only do 1024x768 as their native resolution, and they just stretch the image to be '1080p compatible'



Yeah, those are a crock all right. More of an insult to sell them than anything.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

Mussels said:


> my advice is: set overscan in your video card software to 0%, set the TV to 'just scan" or 1:1 pixel mapping (whatever its called) and on ALL your HDMI inputs* (test them ALL! try VGA if the HDMI doesnt work!) try the following resolutions:
> 
> 1024x768
> 1360x768
> ...



Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give that a try. As it was shown above in my pictures, the HDMI connection does work and it does show 1920x1080; but the texts just like fuzzy/unsharp compare to my dead Sony Bravia KDL-40SL140 has been. The Panasonic HDTV I have right now is already set to 1:1 (Full). I did try overscan and underscan but didn't really noticed anything significant change. I change this under the Nvidia control panel, correct?


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## Mussels (Jul 23, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give that a try. As it was shown above in my pictures, the HDMI connection does work and it does show 1920x1080; but the texts just like fuzzy/unsharp compare to my dead Sony Bravia KDL-40SL140 has been. The Panasonic HDTV I have right now is already set to 1:1 (Full). I did try overscan and underscan but didn't really noticed anything significant change. I change this under the Nvidia control panel, correct?



i've got ATI, so i'm not sure how nvidia does it.

just make sure you try all the inputs, and all the resolutions.


Modern HDTV's can have inputs that dont match up to their panel. the reason its blurry is because you're missing pixels. (1920x1080 input on a 1024x768 plasma is going to  have to cut out some data to fit)

we wont know for sure if thats the case until you manage to test the resolutions and inputs.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

Could the texts fuzziness/unsharp be due to this?






I've increased to 125% because the texts was so small I barely see it.


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## Mussels (Jul 23, 2012)

shouldnt be related, but it wont hurt to change it around while testing.


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## qubit (Jul 23, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Could the texts fuzziness/unsharp be due to this?
> 
> http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n334/justLor/textResolution.jpg
> 
> I've increased to 125% because the texts was so small I barely see it.



If the desktop isn't fitting on the screen with 1:1 pixel mapping then this won't change things much. You need to fix that core problem first.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

Okay, here's another thing. I use remote desktop connection to my computer from another computer that uses Dell Ultrapsharp monitor. The screen grab in my previous post is still looking not as sharp as it should even viewing through my Dell monitor. Thus, it leads me to believe that perhaps it's not the HDTV's fault regarding the texts image quality.


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## theJesus (Jul 23, 2012)

Is it just text that's blurry/fuzzy?  Try adjusting cleartype


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

theJesus said:


> Is it just text that's blurry/fuzzy?  Try adjusting cleartype



I think it's everything. Here's a comparison:






The top screen grab is from my computer with zoom up to 120% and the ones with the panaonic hdtv plasma; however in this case, the TV is turned off and I used windows remote desktop connection to view and screen capture it. The bottom screen grab is from my local computer. Do you see the slight in fuzziness/blurriness in the top screen grab? I start to believe this is not due to my plasma hdtv.


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## qubit (Jul 23, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> I think it's everything. Here's a comparison:
> 
> http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n334/justLor/VS2010Tabs.jpg
> 
> The top screen grab is from my computer with zoom up to 120% and the ones with the panaonic hdtv plasma; however in this case, the TV is turned off and I used windows remote desktop connection to view and screen capture it. The bottom screen grab is from my local computer. Do you see the slight in fuzziness/blurriness in the top screen grab? I start to believe this is not due to my plasma hdtv.



The top picture is showing scaled up characters rendered without antialiasing, while the bottom one is showing characters at normal size, with antialising. Hence the bottom picture looks better. Nothing to do with the monitor or TV, just a Windows setting.

But did you resolve that 1:1 pixel mapping? Without that your picture will always look crap, regardless of anything else you do.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 23, 2012)

yea looks like the same issue i had with my Samsung T24A350, 

in which VGA looked better than HDMI , required about 6-7 hours of messing with various settings till i got it fixed, 1 to 1 mode didnt fix it required alot of messing around finally uninstalled the Samsung EDID info replaced with generic and viola worked, not sure that will help the OP, but it fixed all my Samsung woes. also allowed for better color calibration as my samsung liked to look more sepia than correct lol


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

In Nvidia control panel, the resolution/apply the following settings is set to 1080p, 1920x1080.
Windows Resolution is also set to 1920x1080 although in Nvidia control panel the Adjust desktop size and position/Size tab, the "Enable desktop resizing" is checked and "Resize..." is set to slightly lower than 1920x1080 so that all sides are not extended over the edge of my TV.

My HDTV plasma is set to "Full" and the screen looks right. I'm not sure if that means 1:1 pixel mapping.

But my point is that, I'm not even using the hdtv plasma and the screen still looks kinda crap via remote desktop connection. 

Okay, so if it's Windows that's causing this fuzziness, how/where do I set the "Antialiasing"?


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> yea looks like the same issue i had with my Samsung T24A350,
> 
> in which VGA looked better than HDMI , required about 6-7 hours of messing with various settings till i got it fixed, 1 to 1 mode didnt fix it required alot of messing around finally uninstalled the Samsung EDID info replaced with generic and viola worked, not sure that will help the OP, but it fixed all my Samsung woes. also allowed for better color calibration as my samsung liked to look more sepia than correct lol



Thanks for the response. Okay, so you use VGA instead of HDMI and it's fixed for you?


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## theJesus (Jul 23, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Thanks for the response. Okay, so you use VGA instead of HDMI and it's fixed for you?


If a TV has a VGA port, then that port is usually intended for PC use.  Your TV does not have one though.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 23, 2012)

no i use HDMI now but took 6-7 hours of headaches of various settings before i solved it and even then the difference is the HDMI is a bit sharper, VGA is a bit softer otherwise essentially the same, as my monitor didnt have DVI,

noticed the same issues on my T260 HD, HDMI looked inferior to DVI but in general both were better than VGA,

just food for thought is all.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> no i use HDMI now but took 6-7 hours of headaches of various settings before i solved it and even then the difference is the HDMI is a bit sharper, VGA is a bit softer otherwise essentially the same, as my monitor didnt have DVI,
> 
> noticed the same issues on my T260 HD, HDMI looked inferior to DVI but in general both were better than VGA,
> 
> just food for thought is all.



That's why I didn't really look care if my hdtv has vga port or not.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 23, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Yes, both windows resolution selection and nvidia control panel shows 1920x1080 @ 60hz.



I'm not talking about whether that res is showing in both panels, I'm saying it can make a difference which panel you use to lock that res in. One is the panel MS uses, the other Nvidia's.

In my experience, I think there must be some sort of detection problem regarding setting res options for an HDTV in W7. I don't know whether it's on the Nvidia side or MS side, maybe both, but I suspect it has mostly to do with some of Nvidia's drivers being a bit unstable. Sometimes I can't even get the resize option to enable right away. I have to try it a few times before it will.

If nothing else works, one thing you can try is reinstalling the driver, or updating to the latest if you don't have it. Make sure you check the Custom box and then "Perform clean install", which will delete the installed driver first.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 23, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> I'm not talking about whether that res is showing in both panels, I'm saying it can make a difference which panel you use to lock that res in. One is the panel MS uses, the other Nvidia's.
> 
> In my experience, I think there must be some sort of detection problem regarding setting res options for an HDTV in W7. I don't know whether it's on the Nvidia side or MS side, maybe both, but I suspect it has mostly to do with some of Nvidia's drivers being a bit unstable. Sometimes I can't even get the resize option to enable right away. I have to try it a few times before it will.
> 
> If nothing else works, one thing you can try is reinstalling the driver, or updating to the latest if you don't have it. Make sure you check the Custom box and then "Perform clean install", which will delete the installed driver first.



Well, then I guess I don't know what you're talking about then. I have tried both locations (MS and Nvidia) and set the tv to "Full".

I did try reinstalled with the latest drivers and replaced my current drivers and still there is no change. Again, my screen seems to be okay. It does not go beyond the edges of my tv now. However, my biggest concerns is the fuzziness/unsharp of texts and images in general and I don't think this has anything to do with the plasma hdtv because I've tried turning the hdtv off and use remote desktop connection and it still look not as sharp. I did look at the "Antialiasing" in the Nvidia control and this is what it looks like:


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## qubit (Jul 23, 2012)

That's antialising for 3D graphics. For the desktop, you adjust the Cleartype settings. Turning Cleartype off removes AA from desktop text and is the way I like to run my desktop, since it gives 100% sharp characters.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 24, 2012)

qubit said:


> That's antialising for 3D graphics. For the desktop, you adjust the Cleartype settings. Turning Cleartype off removes AA from desktop text and is the way I like to run my desktop, since it gives 100% sharp characters.



I turned off the Cleartype texts but it's no difference.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 24, 2012)

Okay, I found something. I unchecked the "Enable desktop resizing" and the texts is suddenly much clearer and sharper. However, now my Windows Start toolbar is way down underneath my hdtv's edge. The icons my left side edege is way to left. Is this call "overscan" right? What's the correct term for this issue?


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## 2Charlie (Jul 24, 2012)

In search to fix my "overscan" I found this thread. It describe exactly what my problem is. I guess the "Resize" I kept talking about is not 1:1 pixel mapping; thus, my texts and all my images look crappy and fuzzy.


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## Mussels (Jul 24, 2012)

the top image being blurry is because you set the text size to 125% earlier. you need to stop changing settings until you've determined the proper resolution of your screen.




2Charlie said:


> In Nvidia control panel, the resolution/apply the following settings is set to 1080p, 1920x1080.
> Windows Resolution is also set to 1920x1080 although in Nvidia control panel the Adjust desktop size and position/Size tab, the "Enable desktop resizing" is checked and "Resize..." is set to slightly lower than 1920x1080 so that all sides are not extended over the edge of my TV.
> 
> My HDTV plasma is set to "Full" and the screen looks right. I'm not sure if that means 1:1 pixel mapping.
> ...



you should not resize. that is not solving your problem, and makes it impossible to do the testing i mentioned earlier.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 24, 2012)

Mussels said:


> my advice is: set overscan in your video card software to 0%, set the TV to 'just scan" or 1:1 pixel mapping (whatever its called) and on ALL your HDMI inputs* (test them ALL! try VGA if the HDMI doesnt work!) try the following resolutions:
> 
> 1024x768
> 1360x768
> ...


There is no way to set my video card Nvidia control panel to 0%. It's either "Do not report, Auto-select, Underscan" and I have tried all of these. Nothing works.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 24, 2012)

just want to but in an say this is why DVI is amazing and HDMI sucks, kinda sad they stick with VGA ports when a DVI = problem solved 99% of the time, oh well gotta love manufacturers cutting penny's


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## 2Charlie (Jul 24, 2012)

Okay, in search of fix for my overscan issue, I found this thread that talks about resolving the issue I have with my exact hdtv. The problem is, I do not know how to access/find the "HD2 full mode" that he's talking about. Does anyone?


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## D007 (Jul 24, 2012)

Overscan issue possible solution: 
After you scale it, just go back into resolution and set it to 1920x1080 and it will keep you scaled properly and set you back to 1920x1080 and not that odd resolution.
Don't you dare go VGA.. ug. Fight that tooth and nail, you loose quality instantly.

Yes I simply mean use the overcsan feature and scale it accordingly. It will set you at some odd resolution. Then after you do that go right into resolution in nvidia and set it manually to 1920x1080. Works for me everytime.
Your resolution will then state 1920x1080 and not the odd one it was.

Also try 59 hz and see if it fixes any issues.. And make sure you set it to 1080p not 1080i.
You will get horrible picture if you set the wrong.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 24, 2012)

D007 said:


> After you scale it, just go back into resolution and set it to 1920x1080 and it will keep you scaled properly and set you back to 1920x1080 and not that odd resolution.
> Don't you dare go VGA.. ug. Fight that tooth and nail, you loose quality instantly.
> 
> Yes I simply mean use the overcsan feature and scale it accordingly. It will set you at some odd resolution. Then after you do that go right into resolution in nvidia and set it manually to 1920x1080. Works for me everytime.
> ...



Tried all the scaling options and nothing resolves the overscan other than the "Resize" which makes all texts and images fuzzy and blurry.


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## D007 (Jul 24, 2012)

I just read this:

Set sharpness to 0 and under picture -> picture options -> size set that to Just Scan (it's Samsung's name for 1:1 pixel mapping). 

Maybe not the same monitor but the problem is the same and it might help u.

Might try setting the monitor to pc mode as well.

After you resized it you went into resolution and set it manually to 1920x1080 right?
Still did that? If so I am stumped..


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## 2Charlie (Jul 24, 2012)

D007 said:


> After you resized it you went into resolution and set it manually to 1920x1080 right?
> Still did that? If so I am stumped..



No, it's fine. There is no overscan after "resized" but everything looks fuzzy and blurry which looks crap.

Does anyone know how to set my particular HDTV to the "HD2 full mode"? Or, does this option even exist?


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## D007 (Jul 24, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> No, it's fine. There is no overscan after "resized" but everything looks fuzzy and blurry which looks crap.
> 
> Does anyone know how to set my particular HDTV to the "HD2 full mode"? Or, does this option even exist?



I get that but does it say your resolution is still that odd number? 1800 or 1600 x something and not the 1920x1080 you should have? 

If in nvidia control panel it says your resoltion is not 1920x1080, set it manually to 1920x1080 (1080p).. 
That's what I'm saying.

And did you set it to 1080p? not 1080i? That's in like hdmi compliance or something. I'm  not home so I'm working from memory here.
Also try different refresh rates.
Trying to help here but if you don't tell me wether or not you actually try what's being posted idk what else to try.

Idk about that HD2 option, sry.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 24, 2012)

D007 said:


> I get that but does it say your resolution is still that odd number? 1800 or 1600 x something and not the 1920x1080 you should have?
> 
> If in nvidia control panel it says your resoltion is not 1920x1080, set it manually to 1920x1080 (1080p)..
> That's what I'm saying.



I already explained that in my posts of Jul 22, 2012, 08:01 PM, Jul 22, 2012, 10:05 PM, and Jul 22, 2012, 10:54 PM and the result/problem was explained in my post Jul 23, 2012, 10:27 AM.


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## D007 (Jul 24, 2012)

I read the result...lol.. you said you tried it and text got fuzzy.. but you did not say you used the overscan feature, 
"THEN RIGHT AFTERWARDS" you went into resolution and manually set it to 1920 x 1080 and verified that nvidia registered it as 1920x1080 (1080p)"in hdmi compliance" (With overscan active).
Also you did not clarify if it was registering as 1080p not 1080i...
I read every post.. Twice...lol..

Regardless that's all I got. I had your problem before and it was resolution and compliance related. particularly because it was running at 1080i not 1080p..
Good luck and I hope you get it sorted.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for trying to help though. I was a bit slow when some people asked me about the resolution and *qubit *kept pounding me on the 1:1 pixel mapping and stuff; but I finally understood what they're talking about tried all of their suggestions -- none works.


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## qubit (Jul 24, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Thanks for trying to help though. I was a bit slow when some people asked me about the resolution and *qubit *kept pounding me on the 1:1 pixel mapping and stuff; but I finally understood what they're talking about tried all of their suggestions -- none works.



Yeah, sure I did, since it's critically important for a clear picture. Get that wrong and nothing else matters 

I tell ya man, you're not the only one frustrated here. I'd love to spend half an hour with your setup and see if I can get it to work properly - I think it's possible, although there's definitely something funny going on with it. I've seen this kind of crap before and it makes you wonder why these companies keep trying to "innovate" with their TVs, which ends ruining the simple task of displaying a picture.  Plug in any bog standard, cheap 1080p monitor via DVI or HDMI and chances are that it'll display a perfectly set up picture, with the correct 1:1 pixel mapping, proving that achieving this is really easy, so what gives?

I hope you nail it in the end, buddy.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 24, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> The problem is, I do not know how to access/find the "HD2 full mode" that he's talking about. Does anyone?



I looked in the manual again and the only 1:1 mapping mode on that TV is just referred to as "Full", same as mine. What they may be talking about however is using HDMI port # 2 for the PC. Most TVs seem to assume the user is going to use port # 1 for a Blu-ray player.

If you haven't already tried it, I would use port one for Blu-ray, PS3, whatever, and port # 2 for PC. That's how mine is setup and it works fine. I've also read in at least one thread that someone had issues with their TV as a monitor until they used port #2.

I also don't have any issues with Resize or ClearType being enabled as far as bad text, and the revert to the res resized after resizing trick always works and gives me screen fit and full res.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 25, 2012)

I'm happy to report back that I solved the problem of overscan. In the Menu/Picture/HD Size, I chose "Size 2" and it fixes the overscan issue. It's now working great.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 25, 2012)

Okay, sorry to make this thread very long. I've just noticed that every so often (maybe 10 minute or so) some texts on certain window, the texts will turn slightly bold for a second or so then disappears. Any clue?


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## cheesy999 (Jul 25, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Okay, sorry to make this thread very long. I've just noticed that every so often (maybe 10 minute or so) some texts on certain window, the texts will turn slightly bold for a second or so then disappears. Any clue?



It'll be either an image enhancement setting in your TV, or something to stop the picture burning in.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 25, 2012)

cheesy999 said:


> It'll be either an image enhancement setting in your TV, or something to stop the picture burning in.



Could this be the pixel shift orbiter to prevent image burn since this is a plasma tv?


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## theJesus (Jul 25, 2012)

I think that's a possibility.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 25, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> I'm happy to report back that I solved the problem of overscan. In the Menu/Picture/HD Size, I chose "Size 2" and it fixes the overscan issue. It's now working great.



Wow, had this set a while now and I hadn't even noticed that setting for some reason. Actually it's Menu\Picture\*Aspect adjustments* though, wherein both Screen format and HD size are listed.

I did some further checking though and I was right that you want it set to Full (but with HD size 2) as you said. HD Size 1 only gives you 95% of the image vs 100%. With those settings you should set Resize (dropdown box that says Select the desktop resize mode reported to the display) in NCP to "Do not report", which is Off basically.

I think what was said about that latest issue is likely the anti burn-in feature as mentioned. They do come with tradeoffs, but so do LCDs.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 25, 2012)

I want to say thank you so much for all those who chimed in and helped me out on this issue. I'm 90% happy with what I have right now.

Thanks again!


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 25, 2012)

Did you get the flashing and text problems solved? I take it you turned off C.A.T.S.?


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## 2Charlie (Jul 26, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> Did you get the flashing and text problems solved? I take it you turned off C.A.T.S.?



No. The C.A.T.S. is turned off. I'm not sure what C.A.T.S. does.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 26, 2012)

Like I explained above it's Contrast Automatic Tracking System. It basically adjusts contrast and lighting on the fly, and it can cause subtle flashing.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 26, 2012)

Frag Maniac said:


> Like I explained above it's Contrast Automatic Tracking System. It basically adjusts contrast and lighting on the fly, and it can cause subtle flashing.



I did have the CATS turned off and I still have the texts getting slightly bold for a second then back to normal again. You know, it's like the Windows Clear Text thing was turn on temporary for a second then turned off again.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 26, 2012)

The only anomaly I've seen that's associated with ClearType is after I tune it in and enable it, some text can look slightly reddish, but only ones with lines close together, like back to back Ls (ll). It only happened with my previous CRT display though. I don't really notice it on my LCD.

It must be the way Panasonic does the orbitaling for burn-in resistance that's messing with text a bit. It makes sense because static fonts on a high contrast background would be one of the things it tries to resist burning in.

I've never heard of anyone saying it's that noticeable though. Maybe you should have the set checked or RMA or return it if it's an option. At the very least I would try and find a set like that locally and see if you can hook it up to a laptop or something to find out if you can recreate the problem.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 26, 2012)

Thanks, Frag. The video and image look fantastic but it's just the texts -- not sure what's going on.


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## qubit (Jul 26, 2012)

2Charlie said:


> Thanks, Frag. The video and image look fantastic but it's just the texts -- not sure what's going on.



The pixel orbiter by definition will affect the text, since the pixels sent from the PC aren't aligned with those of the screen. You should and do see the effect on fine detail, such as text. The effect may be more obvious on non-antialased text too, since it has no fuzzy edges to hide things like this.

In short, we need better technology than plasma and LCD for our displays. Those upcoming OLED TVs and monitors should look fantastic and will hopefully solve all the problems at once.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 26, 2012)

qubit said:


> The pixel orbiter by definition will affect the text, since the pixels sent from the PC aren't aligned with those of the screen. You should and do see the effect on fine detail, such as text. The effect may be more obvious on non-antialased text too, since it has no fuzzy edges to hide things like this.
> 
> In short, we need better technology than plasma and LCD for our displays. Those upcoming OLED TVs and monitors should look fantastic and will hopefully solve all the problems at once.



I hope those OLED TV are cheap because the way it looks right now, it's darn expensive!


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## qubit (Jul 26, 2012)

Oh, they'll stay pricey for some time, unfortunately.

They still haven't sorted out the lifetime problem of OLEDs properly, yet. Once they do, it'll likely go mainstream.

I don't know why they can't use the ordinary type of LED instead of these organic types, but there must be a good reason for it, or they would have done so long ago.


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## CJCerny (Jul 26, 2012)

Okay...I'll chime in here. I'll start by saying that this problem appears often in the forum postings (burry text when displaying PC output on a TV) and that I don't think we've ever really solved one successfully. Personally, this has been my experience as well. I've owned several big screen TV's in the past 10 years or so and have never seen one that displayed anything as sharply as a dedicated PC monitor does. 

I think the main problem is that your TV just isn't really built to be used as a PC monitor. I think all the logic that they use to properly display and format the output of cable box, Blu-ray player, etc. does not play well with the output of a PC and that there isn't any option to defeat that logic in the menu of your TV. Why do I think that? Two reasons: one, if you look further up Panasonic's model line, the GT series does have a dedicated PC input and controls in the menu for the same. Two, screw with all the video card driver settings that you want to, but you can then connect that same video card to a dedicated PC monitor and the output will be razor sharp. 

Call me an idiot if you want to, but know this first...I've never seen a big screen TV that didn't have dedicated PC input options on it display text clearly. If you have that feature, the text output from your PC will be razor sharp. If you don't, you will never be able to get it sharp, no matter what you do. Hope I'm wrong, but personal experience says I am not.


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## 2Charlie (Jul 26, 2012)

You're stating the obvious, if HDTV is as good/sharp as dedicated PC monitors, who buys a dedicated pc monitor for the price they are right now? I'm not looking for a razor sharp texts. I understand the sacrifice; however, I was talking about the texts kept changing to bold and back. It has nothing to do with razor sharp texts.


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## qubit (Jul 26, 2012)

@CJCerny

The good news is that you are wrong - sorta. 

I had an LG 32" LCD TV for a short time (motion smear was terrible) and successfully used it as a monitor and yes the picture was razor sharp. However, I did have to fiddle around with the settings in the driver control panel and the TV configuration to achieve this, which seems to be common to just about every TV out there and in this respect you're right.

Perhaps the TVs you tried just happened to suck so bad that they couldn't give a proper PC display regardless of setting, or perhaps you just missed something, I have no idea as I wasn't there.

And yeah, it's good you're wrong, because it means that it _is_ possible to use a TV and have as clear a picture as with a monitor.


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## Frag_Maniac (Jul 27, 2012)

qubit said:


> They still haven't sorted out the lifetime problem of OLEDs properly, yet. Once they do, it'll likely go mainstream.
> 
> I don't know why they can't use the ordinary type of LED instead of these organic types, but there must be a good reason for it, or they would have done so long ago.



Personally I don't get why SO many manufacturers are looking at OLED vs PLED when...1, OLED is a KODAK invention involving royalties, plus KODAK due to clinging to film vs adapting to digital is pretty much bankrupt and incapable of improving the tech. 2, the organic vs polymer substance used is susceptible to corrosion from humidity. 3, PLED diodes have been tested long ago to last upwards 100,000 hrs, pretty much the lifespan of a CRT tube.

Point number 2 is why it's taking so long and they're having to resort to ideas like starting with a black and white picture with a color filter applied, much like DLP uses. Isn't that just an extra, unnecessary, more costly step, when PLED has shown to have no such deficiencies? It's like they're taking big steps backward to try and go forward.

Regular diodes would not work in this type of application though, and would make a few of the points of using OLED or PLED a bit moot. For one, standard LEDs are not color accurate like OLED/PLEDs are. Two, current standard LEDs are far too big to use one per pixel as OLED/PLEDs can be. Three, OLED/PLED tech can literally be ink jetted onto a super thin substrate, which can even be curved, which should eventually mean very inexpensive mass production. Four, using LEDs, even if it were possible, would be a power, heat, controller nightmare, and just as if not more expensive.

If you want to learn more about PLED, look up Cavendish Labs. They were a group of students at Cambridge University UK that discovered PLED and later formed their own laboratory. The only big TV name I've seen backing them is Philips, though why, I don't know. It's been a while since I checked though. I think there's probably FAR too much politics involved in electronics industries as large as TV manufacturing.


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