# Hot Temps for 5800X3D



## Chicken Patty (Nov 6, 2022)

hello guys

I recently upgraded my 5600X to a 5800X3D.  My understanding is that this chip due to the v-cache design runs a bit hotter than a 5800X per say.  Now I won't compare it to my 5600X as that was a Ryzen 5, this is a Ryzen 7, so more cores, etc.  CPU is the only thing that changed.  It's cooled by an Bykski CPU block, to a Bykski distro plate with two EK S360 rads.  the GPU is in the loop, it's a 3090Ti but my understanding is this should be enough cooling for both. 

So idle is about 45ºc then if I put it under 100% (Prime 95 Small FFT's) it goes straight to 90ºc and stays there.  CPU doesn't throttle, but should it not be running cooler than this under water?

The way this distro plate works is RESERVOIR > PUMP > GPU > RESERVOIR > CPU > RESERVOIR > TOP RAD > FRONT RAD > RESERVOIR > PUMP and so forth. that's the routing.  Only thing I can think of is that after coming ouit from the GPU it doesn't go through a radiator and it's already hot?  my GPU is running great.  Idles around 36ºc, full load stress test 58ºc. 

Originally I did have an EK block on, so when I installed the Bykski block I re-did the thermal paste obviously, switched to Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Thermal Paste which is what I have on the GPU.  I've tried loosening the CPU block, tightening. Are these temps normal?

Thanks in advance for any help guys.


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## freeagent (Nov 6, 2022)

Sounds a bit warm as mine will run a 10GB load in Linpack 30 times at 4400MHz and barely crack 80 with ARGB fans.


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## Chicken Patty (Nov 6, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Sounds a bit warm as mine will run a 10GB load in Linpack 30 times at 4400MHz and barely crack 80 with ARGB fans.


Just for reference what do you use to keep an eye on temps?


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## cvaldes (Nov 6, 2022)

Your CPU block is either improperly pasted or mounted. A custom watercooled CPU shouldn't be running that hot.

My 5900X (the one in my System Specs) maxes out at 63 °C during a Cinebench R23 run. And that's on one of the warmest days of the year. My GPU will max out at 65, two degrees above the CPU.

Both my CPU and GPU idle at 33 °C, again on one of the warmer days. So your 5800X3D is idling and peaking at higher temperatures. Your CPU should be idling around 36 °C -- the same temperature as your GPU's idle.

I use HWiNFO with graphing turned on.


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## freeagent (Nov 6, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> Just for reference what do you use to keep an eye on temps?


I use HWinfo64


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## Chicken Patty (Nov 6, 2022)

cvaldes said:


> Your CPU block is either improperly pasted or mounted. A custom watercooled CPU shouldn't be running that hot.
> 
> My 5900X (the one in my System Specs) maxes out at 63 °C during a Cinebench R23 run. And that's on one of the warmest days of the year. My GPU will max out at 65, two degrees above the CPU.
> 
> ...


Yeah something is off but with EK Block, same thing, with the Bykski block, same thing.  My 5600X was mounted on the same setup and block and didn't have this issue. So not sure what I may be doing different? Issue started since I put this CPU.  GPU is perfectly fine, actually running super cool.


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## P4-630 (Nov 6, 2022)

a dud?..


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## Chicken Patty (Nov 6, 2022)

Yeah something is off guys, going to have to reseat again and see.  I did when I changed blocks so not sure what the issue could be.  I'll give it another go and report back. I am also using HW info.  peaks at 90ºc all cores 



P4-630 said:


> a dud?..


hope not lol


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## freeagent (Nov 6, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> Yeah something is off but with EK Block, same thing, with the Bykski block, same thing.  My 5600X was mounted on the same setup and block and didn't have this issue. So not sure what I may be doing different? Issue started since I put this CPU.  GPU is perfectly fine, actually running super cool.


Are you using the PBO2 Tuner program? That should help, and you will gain some mega hurts too


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## tabascosauz (Nov 6, 2022)

So many threads on this lol

5800X was thermally the worst Zen 3 CPU.
5800X3D has even worse thermals. Expect straight to 90C for most all-core workloads. There is no comparing to other Ryzen 5000 CPUs (Ryzen 7000 maybe).

Water isn't guaranteed to help, especially without a newer block made with these CPUs in mind (Optimus, TechN, Velocity2). Peeps been complaining about these older blocks on OCN too and how they don't help tame 5800X3D.

If you want to bring down the temps (and see if the contact is the problem), use PBO2 tuner to do your Curve Optimizer and set some lower power limits. eg. all-core -30 and ~100W should cut temps by 10-20C, if contact is not a problem. You shouldn't need more than 120W to achieve max all core performance at 4450MHz.



freeagent said:


> I use HWinfo64
> 
> 
> View attachment 268705



Isn't that with an ambient of sub-20C or just around there? Little chilly


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## freeagent (Nov 6, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Isn't that with an ambient of sub-20C or just around there? Little chilly


Aren't you guys the ones with snow now, like a lot??  

Nice and dry here for now..


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## Super Firm Tofu (Nov 6, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> So many threads on this lol
> 
> 5800X was thermally the worst Zen 3 CPU.
> 5800X3D has even worse thermals. Expect straight to 90C for most all-core workloads. There is no comparing to other Ryzen 5000 CPUs (Ryzen 7000 maybe).
> ...



Exact same experience.  Stock: Straight to 90c for me on a NH-15 and FC140.  With Negative 30 on all cores, rarely see over 80c.



tabascosauz said:


> Isn't that with an ambient of sub-20C or just around there? Little chilly


And 2500 cfm worth of 'wind'


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## cvaldes (Nov 6, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> Yeah something is off but with EK Block, same thing, with the Bykski block, same thing.  My 5600X was mounted on the same setup and block and didn't have this issue. So not sure what I may be doing different? Issue started since I put this CPU.  GPU is perfectly fine, actually running super cool.



The 5600X is a 65W TDP part, it can be cooled with a mediocre 120mm AIO. It wasn't stressing your custom cooling loop at all.

Since you have poor cooling with both EK and Bykski blocks, it might have something to do with the routing configuration with your distribution block. I have no experience with distribution blocks so I won't make any suggestions. And you correctly pasted your GPU so it's probably not a poor paste job.

For what it's worth my loop is: Pump > Reservoir > CPU > 240mm Radiator > GPU > Inline thermal sensor > 360mm Radiator > back to Pump

so the hot exhaust coolant from both CPU and GPU are immediately being cooled down.

Unsurprisingly the coolant temp during idle is the same 33 °C as the CPU and GPU. Maxed out, the coolant temperature is 53 °C right before entering the 360mm radiator. I know people here get really passionate about cooling discussions and I tend to stay away from them these days. Regardless even if I'm doing everything wrong (which I'm sure some will enthusiastically point out), my temps are fine.

Anyhow best of luck.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 6, 2022)

freeagent said:


> Aren't you guys the ones with snow now, like a lot??
> 
> Nice and dry here for now..



It's 3C outside but pouring rain..... don't think my PC wants any of that   snow tonight but probably no accumulation yet

One of my buddies bought a grow tent for his PC either to expel exhaust heat or bring in cold air from outside.......



Super Firm Tofu said:


> Exact same experience.  Stock: Straight to 90c for me on a NH-15 and FC140.  With Negative 30 on all cores, rarely see over 80c.
> 
> And 2500 cfm worth of 'wind'




Sometimes I forget that @freeagent sits next to a jet engine every day. We start out at similar ambient but mine climbs closer to 25C later in the day

I am surprised how much the 5800X3D's behaviour is similar to Ryzen 7000 thermals. CO by itself does not so much, power limits by itself does not so much, combined it's a world of difference. I think I shaved off between 15-30C depending on situation and about 35W max power. Having PBO back is a great experience.



cvaldes said:


> Your CPU block is either improperly pasted or mounted. A custom watercooled CPU shouldn't be running that hot.



5900X is not a good comparison. Water barely affects the ST temps/spikes compared to air. Water shows its advantage with higher wattage, but only where thermal density is acceptable.


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## freeagent (Nov 6, 2022)

Super Firm Tofu said:


> And 2500 cfm worth of 'wind'


Haha no honestly this is the quietest rig I have had for quite a long time!

All of my settings are in that screen cap above, the 66cfm fans on the cpu were at their full speed of 1500 revs, the stock front fans kind of have a bit of a howl sound at full speed, they are the loudest. I do have a TY-143 on the rear of the case, but it is limited to 2100 revs and its no louder than what is already going on. Honestly, the best air cooled setup I had was in my Meshify C loaded with iPPC 3K fans, no rear exhaust fan needed but it was insanely loud if you let the fans spool up. Almost 700CFM going through it was effing awesome lol  


cvaldes said:


> The 5600X is a 65W TDP part, it can be cooled with a mediocre 120mm AIO. It wasn't stressing your custom cooling loop at all.


The 5600X with PBO and custom power with curve can do in excess of 130w PPT, and over 150w PPT with a static clock.


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## Ownedtbh (Nov 6, 2022)

turn up the fans and it will cool down
Edit: Report back what your temps are when fans are at 100%


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## Chicken Patty (Nov 6, 2022)

Going to try PBO tuner first guys see how that goes.  If not I'll repeat and see.  It is 25c in the room, so not very cool lol


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## tabascosauz (Nov 6, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> Going to try PBO tuner first guys see how that goes.  If not I'll repeat and see.  It is 25c in the room, so not very cool lol



How much power consumption stock for all-core? 120W ish?

If -30 all core (if you can do it stable) + something like 88/60/90 doesn't immediately make a huge difference to temps, then I'd revisit the mounting question. 25C is fine. It's about 25C here right now.

Honestly even without changing power limits, -30 alone should make a difference.


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## freeagent (Nov 6, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> It is 25c in the room, so not very cool lol


Its 19.5c in my room right now, in the winter though it can dip down to 16-17c. If I open a window, I can get it down low enough for me nervous about things that keep us alive in the cold Haha. The closer you get to 0c the heat pipes don't work as well so there is a balance. If you are moving a lot of air it seems to put a chill on the sinks that makes it easier to keep the hot bits at bay, but there is a limit that is unique to each setup. I kind of want to try to find some industrial 180x38s that will run at 12v. 250-300cfm each would be fine   


tabascosauz said:


> Honestly even without changing power limits, -30 alone should make a difference.



Thats all I do with mine, just give all cores -30 and let it have its power.


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## Chicken Patty (Nov 6, 2022)

Hey guys so using PBO2 TUner I set it to -30 and then the PPT to 100W and max temp is 70ºc without even cranking up the fans.  So going to stress test for now and see if stable so atleast I don't have to tear it down right now to reseat the block, etc.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 6, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> Hey guys so using PBO2 TUner I set it to -30 and then the PPT to 100W and max temp is 70ºc without even cranking up the fans.  So going to stress test for now and see if stable so atleast I don't have to tear it down right now to reseat the block, etc.



Sounds about right for a block at 25C. I doubt fan speed helps much, it's water and there's not much actual wattage, just density.

You can adjust power to your liking, just keep in mind that all-core clocks stop scaling at 4450MHz. Only BCLK can go further. So adjust power as necessary to max out at 4450MHz, and make sure there's no major clock stretching (discrepancy between Core Clock and Effective Clock during test) or performance loss.

It's best to find a combination of PPT/TDC/EDC that works well. Adjusting PPT alone doesn't always work too well for actual performance. For the 15k run I think I used something like 100/65/90.


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## Chicken Patty (Nov 6, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Sounds about right for a block at 25C. I doubt fan speed helps much, it's water and there's not much actual wattage, just density.
> 
> You can adjust power to your liking, just keep in mind that all-core clocks stop scaling at 4450MHz. Only BCLK can go further. So adjust power as necessary to max out at 4450MHz, and make sure there's no major clock stretching (discrepancy between Core Clock and Effective Clock during test) or performance loss.
> 
> It's best to find a combination of PPT/TDC/EDC that works well. Adjusting PPT alone doesn't always work too well for actual performance. For the 15k run I think I used something like 100/65/90.


the sensor on the block says the water is 34c, that's pretty warm I'd say. Just finished a run though.  I will play around with it, see what settings work best, but atleast for now i'm not scared it'll melt off heheh


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## A Computer Guy (Nov 6, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> hello guys
> 
> I recently upgraded my 5600X to a 5800X3D.  My understanding is that this chip due to the v-cache design runs a bit hotter than a 5800X per say.  Now I won't compare it to my 5600X as that was a Ryzen 5, this is a Ryzen 7, so more cores, etc.  CPU is the only thing that changed.  It's cooled by an Bykski CPU block, to a Bykski distro plate with two EK S360 rads.  the GPU is in the loop, it's a 3090Ti but my understanding is this should be enough cooling for both.
> 
> ...



I don't think it matters but you can try swapping CPU and GPU in your loop.
RESERVOIR > PUMP > CPU > RESERVOIR > GPU > RESERVOIR > TOP RAD > FRONT RAD > RESERVOIR > PUMP
My understanding is the CPU and GPU temp deltas with the water are so great that the order doesn't really matter. 

With a 5950x Ryzen master typically shows my temps under 40c (36c on idle but I got things boosting in the background)  HWiNFO64 says I average 46c with my ambient approx. 28c and my loop temps 31c with my fans running only 50% at 1000 rpm and D5 pump at 60% speed.  Exhaust temps are 32c and with higher workloads the ambient to exhaust delta might get to 12c difference.  This is probably a very apples to oranges comparison but CPU 45c (kinda) idle with 34c water temp doesn't seem that to bad to me.  Increase your pump and fan speeds to lower the water temps I suppose.  If you have some stuff in the background boosting try closing them and see if your average CPU idle temps improve.

I have 2 temp sensors in my loop out of curiosity mostly.  A cold side (before CPU/GPU) and hot side (after CPU/GPU) and for the most part they stay the same (within error) with at most a 2c variance if I lower my pump and fan speeds too much.

Something you can try when using PBO (with or without curve optimizer) lowering EDC a bit (even when raising PPT) can knock down CPU temps a little.  This was something I read in a past conversation here on TPU - that excessive EDC just puts more heat into the cpu - and I had the same experience.


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## stinger608 (Nov 6, 2022)

Oh man @Chicken Patty , there is something amiss on this man! Probably better pull that CPU and send it right over to me for further testing...........For at least a year or so............    

On a serious note, something for sure doesn't sound right man. Have you tried a decent air cooler, just to check differences?


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## tabascosauz (Nov 6, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> the sensor on the block says the water is 34c, that's pretty warm I'd say. Just finished a run though.  I will play around with it, see what settings work best, but atleast for now i'm not scared it'll melt off heheh



Water temp does sound a little on the warm side for running a few CPU tests at 100-120W. An hour of CPU tests would get me up to around 31-33C on a 142W 5900X, I only had a 280mm XT45.......however, my ambient was also about 4-5C lower back then when I was on the loop, and I ran probably a higher pump speed than you. Taking into account 25C it ain't bad, also dunno what your 3090 Ti is contributing to the loop at idle. eg. reviews said multi monitor idle on 2060 Super was like 20W but in reality closer to 45W (the GPU I had in that loop).

The Bykski AM4 blocks all seem to have chunky fins - Optimus Foundation or TechN that have much higher fin density might have an advantage. Not sure about EK. Also the Bykski fins are oriented west-east, so only like 20% of the fins actually flow over the CCDs (although, 1CCD like 5800X3D is just hard to cool, Optimus or TechN really aren't much better, maybe 1/3 of the fins at best).

But your CPU temps seem just fine after CO and lower limits, wouldn't worry about it as long as it's still handling the 3090 Ti properly.

On 5800X3D, the core (which gets hot) no longer makes direct contact with the IHS, only the uncore (which doesn't get hot) does - hence the bizarre behaviour. As long as you're comfortable with your temps you don't need to worry much, core clocks matter a lot less to the X3D than other Zen 3 CPUs.


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## JrRacinFan (Nov 6, 2022)

A Computer Guy said:


> I don't think it matters but you can try swapping CPU and GPU in your loop.


Correct. The loop order wont matter, it will all settle into equilibrium. What could matter is push/pull configuration. @Chicken Patty  I cant recall, whats your radiator placement?


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## dgianstefani (Nov 6, 2022)

What thermal paste do you use?

These are my temps under 240 Hz gaming load.






Prime 95 is not a realistic load, so I wouldn't really worry.


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## ThrashZone (Nov 6, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> hello guys
> 
> I recently upgraded my 5600X to a 5800X3D.  My understanding is that this chip due to the v-cache design runs a bit hotter than a 5800X per say.  Now I won't compare it to my 5600X as that was a Ryzen 5, this is a Ryzen 7, so more cores, etc.  CPU is the only thing that changed.  It's cooled by an Bykski CPU block, to a Bykski distro plate with two EK S360 rads.  the GPU is in the loop, it's a 3090Ti but my understanding is this should be enough cooling for both.
> 
> ...


Hi,
Hottest item should be hit first with coolest fluid possible either coming from a rad or reservoir and cpu usually is the hottest item.
Example reservoir-pump/ cpu/ gpu/ rad/ rad/.. back to reservoir.

Fluid in general does equalize but you'd have to have multiple water tem sensors to be accurate say before and after cpu/ gpu 
I'd personally prioritize the hottest item/ cpu from pump or rads which ever is more convenient pipping wise 

So with that in mind I use two d5 pumps 
Res-pump combo/ rad/ rad/ 2nd d5 pump/ cpu/ gpu back to res-pump combo. repeat.
Of course I use soft tubing as well and don't mind the octopus look either because it's about oc'ing not looks


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## Minxie (Nov 6, 2022)

Stop worrying and enjoy that beast. Temperatures do not matter on Zen 3 and above. AMD is obviously building these things to redline to get the most performance possible.


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## QuietBob (Nov 6, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> idle is about 45ºc


With 25c room ambient you should be idling below 40, and most likely in the 30-35c range. Perhaps your CPU does not enter deep sleep due to power plan settings or background processes?


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## freeagent (Nov 6, 2022)

ARGB software can be a real biznatch. I don’t have armoury crate installed or anything like that. I use open RGB because it has a low footprint and i can just turn it off. Hwinfo is the one program I use that is always polling.


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## ThrashZone (Nov 6, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> the sensor on the block says the water is 34c, that's pretty warm I'd say. Just finished a run though.  I will play around with it, see what settings work best, but atleast for now i'm not scared it'll melt off heheh


Hi,
34c water temp at 90c core temp well if good or bad depends on amount of rads and fan rpm's 
You'd hope for only a few celsius above room temp max but room 25c is pretty typical I'd say unless you're lowering room temp for maximum cooling sessions.

I'd doing nothing really water temp is nearly 32c 
I have fans at silent range on 2 gtx-280 rads.
I'm sure if I ran anything that maxed turbo clocks I'd hit somewhere near 90c to and of course water temp would go higher  

Distro plates are purely for looks
In a typical reservoir config fluid exist out the bottom and hot fluid would dump in and mix in with existing from the top so using distro plate fluid isn't mixed together nearly as well as a typical tube reservoir.


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## dgianstefani (Nov 6, 2022)

freeagent said:


> ARGB software can be a real biznatch. I don’t have armoury crate installed or anything like that. I use open RGB because it has a low footprint and i can just turn it off. Hwinfo is the one program I use that is always polling.


+1 for open RGB, I use it in place of iCUE for my RAM, Synapse I don't really have issue with.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 6, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> hello guys
> 
> I recently upgraded my 5600X to a 5800X3D.  My understanding is that this chip due to the v-cache design runs a bit hotter than a 5800X per say.  Now I won't compare it to my 5600X as that was a Ryzen 5, this is a Ryzen 7, so more cores, etc.  CPU is the only thing that changed.  It's cooled by an Bykski CPU block, to a Bykski distro plate with two EK S360 rads.  the GPU is in the loop, it's a 3090Ti but my understanding is this should be enough cooling for both.
> 
> ...



When I did custom.

Pump - cpu - gpu - rad - rad - rad - rad - res.

On most cases, it doesn't matter, but typically run the water to the cpu first if it's a high wattage chip.


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## dgianstefani (Nov 6, 2022)

ShrimpBrime said:


> When I did custom.
> 
> Pump - cpu - gpu - rad - rad - rad - rad - res.
> 
> On most cases, it doesn't matter, but typically run the water to the cpu first if it's a high wattage chip.


Even if GPU runs higher wattage, CPU is a much smaller die, so temperature differential between die and liquid should be max for maximum heat transfer coefficient.

If I could be bothered to delid my 5800X3D and watercool it with a contact frame I would see much better temperatures, but they're already fine and the chip can't be OC'd without resorting to BLCK so it's not worth it.


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## ShrimpBrime (Nov 6, 2022)

dgianstefani said:


> Even if GPU runs higher wattage, CPU is a much smalller die, so temperature differential between die and liquid should be max for maximum heat transfer coefficient.
> 
> If I could be bothered to delid my 5800X3D and watercool it with a contact frame I would see much better temperatures, but they're already fine and the chip can't be OC'd without resorting to BLCK so it's not worth it.


I dunno, just was they way I'd set them up. GPU is higher wattage, but generally a full cover block and a lot more surface area, so cpu first.

That's a shame the X3D has its nuts chopped like that. You're right, not worth a delid though.

I love delidded chips   .


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 7, 2022)

This is what I get with a corsair 150i elite 360mm AIO at -30mv on all cores and stock power limits.





Tried everything to get all core 4.4ghz on cinebench, but the max I can do is 4.2ghz. Setting some power limits allows me to get 10c lower temps at 4-4.1ghz.

A friend of mine with basically the same specs, except a sythe fuma 2 air cooler, gets 15c~ lower temps at 300mhz higher clock than me. So my chip is just the worst lottery ever.


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## Mussels (Nov 7, 2022)

Chicken Patty said:


> hello guys
> 
> I recently upgraded my 5600X to a 5800X3D.  My understanding is that this chip due to the v-cache design runs a bit hotter than a 5800X per say.  Now I won't compare it to my 5600X as that was a Ryzen 5, this is a Ryzen 7, so more cores, etc.  CPU is the only thing that changed.  It's cooled by an Bykski CPU block, to a Bykski distro plate with two EK S360 rads.  the GPU is in the loop, it's a 3090Ti but my understanding is this should be enough cooling for both.
> 
> ...


No, that's too hot

What wattages are you seeing in HWinfo during that test? If you've maxed out PBO and got it blasting 140W, then yeah you're gunna cook it like that

Mine maxes out in the 90-110W range, and sits around 70C (rarely i see like one single reading hit 80C, when nothing else matches it - i assume theres some minor readings errors at times)

Like this 81C reading doesnt fit any other result, despite all being the same hardware (Current - min - max)
I guess over 46 hours the sensor just had one brief millisecond of heat?









LordsnLadies said:


> This is what I get with a corsair 150i elite 360mm AIO at -30mv on all cores and stock power limits.
> 
> View attachment 268828
> 
> ...


you're pushing 125W through it, you need to lower that. You look like you've got boosted PBO wattages with no curve optimiser.


Heres mine with 25C ambients: R23 makes it hotter than literally anything else, but it's not as hot not using as much wattage as what you guys are getting





You likely have some "performance" or overclocking options turned on that are kicking voltages higher than expected like LLC - i'm running really high SoC voltages and RAM at 3866 here, which adds a fair bit of heat (16W on my SoC vs 7.5W on one post above mine)


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 7, 2022)

Mussels said:


> you're pushing 125W through it, you need to lower that. You look like you've got boosted PBO wattages with no curve optimiser.



Here, some more aggressive power limits. Dropped to 4ghz effective.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 7, 2022)

Mussels said:


> No, that's too hot
> 
> What wattages are you seeing in HWinfo during that test? If you've maxed out PBO and got it blasting 140W, then yeah you're gunna cook it like that
> 
> ...



Most boards will push 110-120W through 5800X3D at stock. If you're not at least over the 100W mark bone stock with normal cooling, then your board is markedly more conservative than is typical.

CCD temp sensor is often an outlier usually either noticeably higher than anything else or captures spikes that the others don't, which is why I just keep it hidden. Fan control is tied to Tctl/Tdie anyway, and per-core temps exist.

However.......the L3 temp sensor I suspect is still located in the same place as other Zen 3 (ie. the base 32MB layer), as it behaves the exact same; still, I'm not entirely convinced that stacking some more cache and operating at even lower Vcore is enough to fundamentally change thermal characteristics of Zen 3 uncore, so CCD1 sensor most likely is just doing the same bizarro shit it does on other CPUs - thus no cause for concern.



LordsnLadies said:


> Here, some more aggressive power limits. Dropped to 4ghz effective.



Thermals not surprising really, pretty much everyone hits 90 out of the box, then once you drop to 90-100W then temps come down drastically. 

If you want to bring your clocks back up you will need to mess with curve optimizer undervolting, via PBO2 Tuner. Temps look fine but stock V-F curve is bringing your clocks down with it.

Also, low R23 clocks (~4.2GHz even with -30 all cores) is characteristic of most AGESA 1207 BIOSes. Unsure what board you have but 5800X3D only has a choice of 2 AGESAs, 1206 and 1207. You can try a 1206 BIOS for your board for better clocks.


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## Mussels (Nov 7, 2022)

Clearly that's helped - 90C down to 70C
What you need to do is leave it like that, and test your BIOS settings.

I've got an unlocked BIOS so i've got every setting available even when most don't work, so I don't know what you'll have visible but LLC definitely should be


VID (requested voltage) changes the clock speed, so a straight voltage offest can reduce performance since it alters VID

Anything that raises or lowers actual voltage instead of VID (like the LLC settings and various "performance enhancers" wont - so it could ask for 1.25v and receive 1.20 and run colder, or 1.30v and run hotter

Set LLC to 1, see if its faster MHz at that same 90W PPT



tabascosauz said:


> Most boards will push 110-120W through 5800X3D at stock


Not 125W with 3200 RAM, that's on the really high end


Definitely do a CMOS clear and load optimised defaults and set things up again, I had various settings from my 5800x visible and 'saved' until I did this. altering some of the defaults slightly


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## tabascosauz (Nov 7, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Not 125W with 3200 RAM, that's on the really high end



Package power has nothing to do with memory and Fabric (at least not how you're suggesting). Because stock 5800X3Ds don't max out anywhere close to the 142W limit, stock wattage is almost wholly dependent on board and AGESA. Both my boards are north of 120W stock.


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 7, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Thermals not surprising really, pretty much everyone hits 90 out of the box, then once you drop to 90-100W then temps come down drastically.
> 
> If you want to bring your clocks back up you will need to mess with curve optimizer undervolting, via PBO2 Tuner. Temps look fine but stock V-F curve is bringing your clocks down with it.
> 
> Also, low R23 clocks (~4.2GHz even with -30 all cores) is characteristic of most AGESA 1207 BIOSes. Unsure what board you have but 5800X3D only has a choice of 2 AGESAs, 1206 and 1207. You can try a 1206 BIOS for your board for better clocks.



Running an Asus ROG Strix B550-A with ComboV2_1207.

Out of the box my chip hits 3.8ghz on cinebench at 70c, so it power limits before it can even hit higher clocks. I had to undervolt by -30mv to get over 4ghz.

I first thought it was cooling that wasn't adequate but its the chip itself. I was running with a 120mm phanteks and the temps weren't much worse than I have now on an AIO.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 7, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> Running an Asus ROG Strix B550-A with ComboV2_1207.
> 
> Out of the box my chip hits 3.8ghz at 70c, so it power limits before it can even hit higher clocks. I had to undervolt by -30mv to get over 4ghz.
> 
> I first thought it was cooling that wasn't adequate but its the chip itself. I was running with a 120mm phanteks and the temps weren't much worse than I have now on an AIO.



1207 is the main culprit for the low clocks in R23. It's a very visible difference while only changing AGESA and nothing else. Step back to any available 1206 and see if things improve.

On 4006 (a 1206 BIOS) I'm usually at about 4.35-4.4GHz in R23 at 100W. On 4201 (a 1207 BIOS) I'm down in the 4.1GHz range at same 100W. Same behaviour for A.50/A.71 BIOSes on my Unify-X.

Normally you have to use PBO2 Tuner which resets upon reboot, but you should have access to beta BIOSes here, which unhides PBO/CBS/AMD OC settings and you go about it like a normal CPU:

[Sammelthread] - ASUS B550 Strix/TUF/Prime Series Sammel- und Laberthread | Hardwareluxx
B550-A (mediafire.com)

Unfortunately, I've only found a 2803 BIOS for the Strix-A (which is a 1207 BIOS). I'd use the vanilla 2604 BIOS and PBO2 Tuner for now, until you can find a modded 2604, or someone to do it. Reous released a bunch of 1206/1207 BIOSes for the ROG C8 boards; he might point you towards a 2604 mod or make one if you ask. It looks like he made the 2803 mod, so best to ask, he probably still has it somewhere.

ASUS ROG X570 Crosshair VIII Overclocking & Discussion Thread | Page 631 | Overclock.net



Mussels said:


> Not all are, and it's definitely a combo of the CPU wattage + the SoC wattage
> Some people mix up PPT and combined, which definitely screws with things
> 
> 90W PPT still has your SoC on top, which could be 95 to 115W depending on the RAM setup and screw with the temps - in this case seeing the low SoC with the 125W total says somethings being pushed too hard



PPT and Package Power are both inclusive of SOC and have always been this way......since the beginning of AM4

His SOC draw is well below 10W and par for the course for 1.0V VSOC. Nearly 120W coming out of just VDDCR_CPU, is quite a bit of power.

Blender is not R23.


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## Mussels (Nov 7, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Package power has nothing to do with memory and Fabric (at least not how you're suggesting). Because stock 5800X3Ds don't max out anywhere close to the 142W limit, stock wattage is almost wholly dependent on board and AGESA. Both my boards are north of 120W stock.


Not all are, and it's definitely a combo of the CPU wattage + the SoC wattage
Some people mix up PPT and combined, which definitely screws with things

90W PPT still has your SoC on top, which could be 95 to 115W depending on the RAM setup and screw with the temps - in this case seeing the low SoC with the 125W total says somethings being pushed too hard

You gotta do the opposite to a normal board, set the LLC settings to allow the voltage to droop - theres enough headroom to lower the voltages and the overclocking heavy boards tend to push LLC harder by default, making them a worse choice on defaults for these sometimes


Look at w1zzards review of the x3D
CPU only at 89W, he's not seeing 125W or close to it


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## Calenhad (Nov 7, 2022)

As long as you have decent flow rate, the order of the components in your custom loop has very limited impact on temps. Water does not heat up or cool down between them. Temps are uniform throughout the loop. I have traditionally run two temp sensors in my loops, "hot" and "cold" sides, and never once seen a measurable delta between them. Now I use a combined temp/ flow rate sensor instead.

People seriously underestimate how fast the water circulates with decent flow rate. In my current setup I have just under 1 litre of coolant. Based on the measured flow rate, my loop moves about 5 litres per second. There is no time for any hot spots to develop when the entire coolant quantity has been through the loop several times per second.

So, unless the flow rate in your setup is rubbish. You should not worry about the order of things.


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 7, 2022)

@tabascosauz Downgrading to official 2604 bios increased the stock result to 4.1ghz and an extra 100mhz when undervolting/power limiting.

 90w ppt, 60A tdc, 80A edc with -30mv on all cores


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## INSTG8R (Nov 7, 2022)

I mean mine runs much “warmer” than my 5600X did under a 360 custom water loop. But I did change pumps to something stronger(x2 RPM) and I may need to look at my rad fans as they don’t seem to pulling as strrong(there were many errors made that led up to this build) That said while definitely running warmer than I’m used to I still find it quite manageable. 
My also new MSI board has a setting for the 3D called Kombo Strike that kinda acts like PBO amd Curve Optimzer togethe)obviously no OC just keeps the MT boost maxed better) Thanks to @Super Firm Tofu for that one. It has kept my temps around 80-85 in say an R23 run vs it pushing 91 before


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## Calenhad (Nov 7, 2022)

INSTG8R said:


> I mean mine runs much “warmer” than my 5600X did under a 360 custom water loop. But I did change pumps to something stronger(x2 RPM) and I may need to look at my rad fans as they don’t seem to pulling as strrong(there were many errors made that led up to this build) That said while definitely running warmer than I’m used to I still find it quite manageable.


I just want to point out that double the rpm says close to nothing about performance. You could get twice the rpm because the impeller is half the radius and in reality you have lost flow rate and/or pressure as a result.

That being said, the DDC pump in your system specs is about as good as it gets 

So I will take my cola bottom lens glasses and leave


----------



## INSTG8R (Nov 7, 2022)

Calenhad said:


> I just want to point out that double the rpm says close to nothing about performance. You could get twice the rpm because the impeller is half the radius and in reality you have lost flow rate and/or pressure as a result.
> 
> That being said, the DDC pump in your system specs is about as good as it gets
> 
> So I will take my cola bottom lens glasses and leave


Let’s just say it was replacing some ancient and inferior but kept at least 5 builds always cool and was always reliable up until I “killed it” 








						So long old friend…
					

Welp after 15 years of faithful service after doing a loop flush I accidentally pulled the wires out of the Molex. I even tried it in 12 bare wires. No joy…  May you rest well old faithful… I’m grabbing a Corsair res/D5 combo just to get something quick hopefully have it back up next weekend...




					www.techpowerup.com


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## tabascosauz (Nov 7, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> @tabascosauz Downgrading to official 2604 bios increased the stock result to 4.1ghz and an extra 100mhz when undervolting/power limiting.
> 
> 90w ppt, 60A tdc, 80A edc with -30mv on all cores



65W limits are 88/60/90. I keep EDC at 90 and just adjust PPT upwards as necessary, though you can decide for yourself based on % utilization of PPT/TDC/EDC reported by HWInfo.

How hot is your room ambient? If it's not hotter than 30C, everything actually looks a little on the warm side, by 5-10C. I would have suggested remounting, but noticing IO die temps and cache temps ambient just seems quite high. If above 30C, temps look a lot more reasonable.

Otherwise, things look fine, except that Vcore is slightly on the low side. It's good news that -30 works but that usually lands you around the 1.15-1.2V mark. You can play around with Vcore (one of the options in the dropdown is a + or - offset), see if your clocks improve from running say +0.025V.

Also, does -30 actually give a regression in clocks compared to -20 or -25. You're clock stretching a fair bit (4.125 effective vs 4.15 clock). Shouldn't be more than a 10MHz difference


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## Upgrayedd (Nov 7, 2022)

Isn't there a Ryzen offset mounting option?


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## 3x0 (Nov 7, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> On 4006 (a 1206 BIOS) I'm usually at about 4.35-4.4GHz in R23 at 100W. On 4201 (a 1207 BIOS) I'm down in the 4.1GHz range at same 100W. *Same behaviour for A.50/A.71 BIOSes on my Unify-X.*


Sorry for off topic question, but does 1206 have MSI Kombo strike or is it only in 1207?


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## tabascosauz (Nov 7, 2022)

3x0 said:


> Sorry for off topic question, but does 1206 have MSI Kombo strike or is it only in 1207?



Unify-X or other boards? Unify-X only has Kombo Strike in A.70. A.50 has a PBO menu that MSI forgot to hide though (no CO). Can't say for other boards, BIOSes are a mess. 1206 was X3D launch BIOS, MSI didn't release Kombo Strike before 1207.


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## Mussels (Nov 7, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> @tabascosauz Downgrading to official 2604 bios increased the stock result to 4.1ghz and an extra 100mhz when undervolting/power limiting.
> 
> 90w ppt, 60A tdc, 80A edc with -30mv on all cores
> View attachment 268853


On my 5800x, certain BIOSes wouldnt work with the curve undervolt - that same BIOS worked with the CU on the x3D, maybe you ran into similar


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 8, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> How hot is your room ambient? If it's not hotter than 30C, everything actually looks a little on the warm side, by 5-10C. I would have suggested remounting, but noticing IO die temps and cache temps ambient just seems quite high. If above 30C, temps look a lot more reasonable.


Room ambient was 25-30 when I ran those previous tests. I've tried repasting and remounting but it didn't make much difference. I think my chip is just bad silicon lottery at this point, because my friend has the same mobo, cpu and memory except he is running a sythe fuma 2 and he gets 200-300mhz higher at the same power/voltage limits while using agesa 1207. We did some more tests yesterday and our temps are actually a lot closer than "10-15c" figure I was saying in my previous post, but in general his runs colder than mine.

For the tests below I would say the ambient temp is probably about 21-25c.

88/60/90 @ -20mv





88/60/90 @ -30mv




Stock limits @ -30mv






tabascosauz said:


> Otherwise, things look fine, except that Vcore is slightly on the low side. It's good news that -30 works but that usually lands you around the 1.15-1.2V mark. You can play around with Vcore (one of the options in the dropdown is a + or - offset), see if your clocks improve from running say +0.025V.


I'll give that a try.


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## Mussels (Nov 9, 2022)

You dont have your system specs filled out so i've already lost what you're running, but your cooler, mounting pressure/method and how you applied thermal paste are kinda critical here

First image:
85C for a 4.1GHz effective clock isn't great. It's not end of the world, but it's a 10% performance loss and still too hot

second run:
4150MHz at 70C? heaps improved

third run:
4300 at 85C, best of the lot clearly performance wise, except for the temp

A few wattages are cut off there, but looks to be around 115W PPT - you can either limit that slightly lower (110/105) to drop the temps, or you can work on the cooling and keep it there.


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 9, 2022)

Mussels said:


> You dont have your system specs filled out so i've already lost what you're running, but your cooler, mounting pressure/method and how you applied thermal paste are kinda critical here



Sorry, didn't realize I could fill out my system specs in my profile, I have now updated my profile with the specs.

Just to recap, I was running a Phanteks PH-TD12DX 120mm air cooler initially and then switched to the corsair h150i rgb elite. All results posted here have been with the corsair though.

With the phanteks I used the X method to paste it and repaste it the second time. Saw the same clock and similar temps compared to the above results.

With the corsair AIO I initially used preapplied paste and when I repasted I used the X method. There weren't any differences in thermals.

As for mounting pressure, I tightened both coolers as much as the screws would allow.


I asked my friend to limit his clock speed to mine and use stock settings without undervolts or limits. He has identical specs except is running a sythe fuma 2 and a midtower.

Friends result:




My result:


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## tabascosauz (Nov 9, 2022)

@LordsnLadies are you sure the 88/60/90 -30 result actually applied -30 in PBO2 Tuner? 1.26V is kinda high for -30. Usually at -30 all core you'll peak around 1.2V max. 1.25V is stock Vcore basically.

How was temps on the Phanteks 120mm tower?

You are still pulling more power than your friend at stock, so even considering sample variations it's not apples to apples. Over 100W, you start to really feel every 10W increase, so 110W vs. 125W is not negligible.

TC12DX is not quite on the same level as Fuma 2 (more U12S). You don't need much paste for X3D, it's a 1CCD part, larger rice grain works fine. How does your cooler contact look, good spread on IHS?


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## HD64G (Nov 9, 2022)

Curve optimizer test and applying a bit less optimistic values than the ones it will show (i.e. -20 instead of -23) in Ryzen Master would be more than enough if power limit was at 105-110W to get >95% of max performance and -10-15C of temp decrease.


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## Mussels (Nov 9, 2022)

Yeah i'm not sure your mounting method is correct
X method isn't ideal for this sort of CPU either, you want either the blob or spread methods - personally i do both, spread some paste and then a small extra central blob

You need to be finger tightening those screws in opposite orders diagonally so top right, bottom left, top left, bottom right 1-2 turns at a time


Behold, my MS paint skills!
The CPU die is in the red box, that is where you need to be cooling. Not the center. Get the paste wrong or tighten in the wrong order and you can easily push the TIM everywhere except where it's needed





You also need to make sure you've got the pump at 100% speed while you're testing, and show us images of your fan and radiator setup - it's way more common than people think to put rads in bad spots, or have fans facing the wrong way... or just have a terrible case.
Hell make sure it's not clogged with dust and animal hair too, it can happen really fast in some environments.








						The Filthy, Rotten, Nasty, Helpdesk-Nightmare picture clubhouse
					

Friends PC had issues. Friends PC ate the whole dog.  The compacted hair springloaded the front panel so it shot off onto the floor




					www.techpowerup.com


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 9, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> are you sure the 88/60/90 -30 result actually applied -30 in PBO2 Tuner? 1.26V is kinda high for -30. Usually at -30 all core you'll peak around 1.2V max. 1.25V is stock Vcore basically.
> 
> How was temps on the Phanteks 120mm tower?


Its certainly doing something because I notice changes if I decrease down to 20mv.

When i was running the phanteks I was looking at the ryzen master reported temp which shows the hottest temp and that was identical to the temp i get now on the corsair AIO. So I can't really say if the cores themselves run differently now.



tabascosauz said:


> How does your cooler contact look, good spread on IHS?





Mussels said:


> You also need to make sure you've got the pump at 100% speed while you're testing, and show us images of your fan and radiator setup - it's way more common than people think to put rads in bad spots, or have fans facing the wrong way... or just have a terrible case.


My setup

Also great job on those paint skills Mussels.

I've contacted my supplier/retailer to RMA the chip because I'm convinced its just a bad sample, but thanks for all the insight into this.

Edit:

90/60/90 @ -30mv with pump/fans balanced profile




90/60/90 @ -30mv with pump/fans extreme profile


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## GerKNG (Nov 9, 2022)

freeagent said:


> The 5600X with PBO and custom power with curve can do in excess of 130w PPT, and over 150w PPT with a static clock.


in what? Prime95?
i have a 5600x and even at 4.8 Ghz all core i barely reach more than 105-110W in R23 or Blender.


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## freeagent (Nov 9, 2022)

GerKNG said:


> in what? Prime95?
> i have a 5600x and even at 4.8 Ghz all core i barely reach more than 105-110W in R23 or Blender.


I can do it with Linpack, I posted a few screens but they are probably lost in the mix


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## Mussels (Nov 10, 2022)

On the images:

Cable management isn't great, but nothing that should alter performance i can see
Fans all look oriented correctly, and that thermal paste looks 99% of the way to perfect - you do want a tiny bit more than that so it goes out over the edges and makes an airtight seal, but its a flat contact which is critical

IMO you should move your SSD's down to the lower bay and remove this entire HDD caddy - its blocking airflow for no reason



SSD's dont vibrate so you could simply use double sided tape (i prefer command strips like these) and mount the SSD's to the floor of the case and remove *both* cages


These are 'reusable' in that you can add/remove the drive many times, but not reusable in that you could peel it from the drive/case and move it around

This kind of reusable  nylon cable tie is dirt cheap on amazon and can be cut to shrink them down (halves work great, thirds for really small wires in tight areas) to tidy up cables in easy to adjust ways





Any VRM overheating will be here:
With one temp sensor over two areas, it's possible for one side to overheat and the one with the sensor be cold. You should be able to hold a finger on that area (and the PCB right next to it) for an extended time without it getting too hot to touch at the temps we've seen reported
If the PCB is burning hot and the heatsink is cold, we know you need new thermal pads there






Just to be clear: You're on AGESA 1.2.0.7 (latest BIOS), you've done the "load optimised defaults" and you have no settings altered regarding CPU voltages (offsets) other than the PBO settings and curve optimiser?


Your "90/60/90 @ -30mv with pump/fans extreme profile" looks pretty much perfect, you could add 10-20 to each value and probably reach the full 4.45GHz without overheating, and then work out what fan/pump settings you need


It's also important to note that just because its an AIO or from a big brand, doesnt mean anything about its performance

As noted here with a ryzen 3600x, its chart topping on those extreme pump and fan settings but on quiet is beaten by a mere 120mm noctua air cooler
Corsair iCUE H150i Elite Capellix CPU Cooler Review | TweakTown







With overclocked settings (and the 3600x is still low wattage in this situation) quiet mode became almost worthless, higher wattage CPU's would have issues like you have been
Balanced does okay, but it's matching air coolers


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## tabascosauz (Nov 10, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> Its certainly doing something because I notice changes if I decrease down to 20mv.
> 
> When i was running the phanteks I was looking at the ryzen master reported temp which shows the hottest temp and that was identical to the temp i get now on the corsair AIO. So I can't really say if the cores themselves run differently now.
> 
> I've contacted my supplier/retailer to RMA the chip because I'm convinced its just a bad sample, but thanks for all the insight into this.



I was going to say, if you were handling the RMA yourself, just overload the AMD rep with your troubleshooting data, and say you've already tried everything on his canned response troubleshooting list. Usually persuades them to skip the bullshit and just get the RMA done (which itself is quick at least in NA). But if someone else is handling it, great.

Tbh if the paste is covering your entire IHS, you don't see any areas with noticeably poor contact, and you're using a good enough paste, paste application on AM4 is hard to fuck up to the point of affecting your temps beyond margin of error. At one point with my 5900X, I was very picky about the 3 dot method for best coverage on 2CCD - it's not worth fussing over if you have even the faintest idea of what you're doing, at least not for ambient conditions.

Your friend's X3D looks about right in all respects, at least - yours is both slightly warmer than expected and still clocking a lot lower than expected. With half-respectable cooling at -30, there's no reason to ever be sitting below 4.2GHz, tbh. Even on AGESA 1207 with its clock penalty in R23 (which isn't the case as you're on 1206 now).

Just to confirm, BIOS 2604 yeah?


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## Mussels (Nov 10, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Tbh if the paste is covering your entire IHS, you don't see any areas with noticeably poor contact


I'm going to 100% agree with this except that over long periods of time (which clearly has not happened yet) it'll dry out faster

I'm beginning to suspect it's primarily the corsair cooler, if OP has been running in quiet mode


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 10, 2022)

Mussels said:


> Just to be clear: You're on AGESA 1.2.0.7 (latest BIOS), you've done the "load optimised defaults" and you have no settings altered regarding CPU voltages (offsets) other than the PBO settings and curve optimiser?





tabascosauz said:


> Just to confirm, BIOS 2604 yeah?



Yeah this is running 2604 with AGESA 1.2.0.6b. It gets 100mhz less at the same undervolt on AGESA 1.2.0.7.

I run DOCP profile for my memory and resizable bar, and I added some PBO limits so that I don't have to keep reentering them. I tried upping the voltage by 0.025v on the VDDCR through the bios last night but it didn't produce any noticeable in results.



Mussels said:


> Your "90/60/90 @ -30mv with pump/fans extreme profile" looks pretty much perfect, you could add 10-20 to each value and probably reach the full 4.45GHz without overheating, and then work out what fan/pump settings you need


The highest clocks i can reach on cinebench r23 is 4.3ghz with no limits and -30mv undervolt on agesa 1.2.0.6.

No limits @ -30mv


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## Mussels (Nov 10, 2022)

Yeah it's the cooler, you're thermal throttling

It's not maxing out any those values, but the thermal limit reduces the boost before a 'true' throttle


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## tabascosauz (Nov 10, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> Yeah this is running 2604 with AGESA 1.2.0.6b. It gets 100mhz less at the same undervolt on AGESA 1.2.0.7.
> 
> I run DOCP profile for my memory and resizable bar, and I added some PBO limits so that I don't have to keep reentering them. I tried upping the voltage by 0.025v on the VDDCR through the bios last night but it didn't produce any noticeable in results.



Added some PBO limits.....are you running a modded BIOS, or is this just something Asus forgot to hide in the BIOS?

RMA might be the right call. There's a few things that I can't explain from your screenshots:

We have similar ambient temps, but I finish R23 with almost the same temps (71C). Similar performance between the C14S and TC12DX I can understand, but not to the AIO with max speeds.
Vcore of 1.07V is kinda low for -30? On 1206, I clock about 4.35GHz at 1.10-1.12V. Granted, every CPU is different and CO does not define fixed steps in terms of mV, but still......
Clocks are just very low for -30 on a 1206 BIOS. Thermals should not be the cause for that.
Major differences for SOC power draw at 1.0V between two CPUs on the same board.......would have expected the difference to come from a different board not CPU.
The only things left to suggest are to try a larger positive offset (+0.05V), and see if clocks improve with a slightly less aggressive undervolt (-20, -25).

The clock stretching is less of a concern, it seems Core and Effective just don't line up very well on 5800X3D.

If anything, -30 with stock limits looks a lot more normal. If R23 scores are between 14000-15000, that's probably close to normal.



Mussels said:


> Yeah it's the cooler, you're thermal throttling
> 
> It's not maxing out any those values, but the thermal limit reduces the boost before a 'true' throttle
> View attachment 269377



That ain't it. At 88W and 71C, his numbers look normal (75-80% thermal limit).

The stock runs going up to 90C are understandably throttling, stock thermal limit is 90C and it happens to everyone. Well, except the friend's 5800X3D, apparently, who apparently has the coldest running sample in existence.


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## Mussels (Nov 10, 2022)

Tabasco: he's throttling, its downclocking

You're seeing the voltages for the effective clocks

I'm looking at the most recent image where thermal limit is at 95.8%, it's going to downclock to prevent reaching that - the prior images it was hitting the PBO limits instead


In all the images, it's one of two things:
1. The PBO limits are reached and its cold and fine, but lower than expected performance

2. the PBO limits are not reached, and thermals are 85C+ in the downclocking range


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## tabascosauz (Nov 10, 2022)

Mussels said:


> In all the images, it's one of two things:
> 1. The PBO limits are reached and its cold and fine, but lower than expected performance
> 
> 2. the PBO limits are not reached, and thermals are 85C+ in the downclocking range



We don't disagree.......

The clocks (4.3GHz) look the most normal at stock power limits than lower limits. The early thermal throttling is not that drastic on X3D. Somewhere between 70 and 80C (75C?) it starts dialing back the clocks slightly. Even with it, the 142W -30 results don't look that off.

Vcore is Vcore. 1.06-1.07V is just plain low.

Something does seem off with the AIO performance-wise if it can't even beat a TC12DX, but the point is that clocks simply shouldn't behave this way, the TC12DX produces the same results. On 1206, at 70C, 90W and -30.


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 10, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Added some PBO limits.....are you running a modded BIOS, or is this just something Asus forgot to hide in the BIOS?


Official bios, its a good thing they did leave it in.



tabascosauz said:


> Vcore of 1.07V is kinda low for -30? On 1206, I clock about 4.35GHz at 1.10-1.12V. Granted, every CPU is different and CO does not define fixed steps in terms of mV, but still......


Looks like mine needs 1.16v~ and 75-80tdc to hit 4.29-4.3ghz effective on agesa 1206.



tabascosauz said:


> The only things left to suggest are to try a larger positive offset (+0.05V), and see if clocks improve with a slightly less aggressive undervolt (-20, -25).


No limits @ -20mv and +0.05 vcore




I ran a couple tests at different vcore offsets (0.18, 0.25, 0.31) and the conclusion is that it just decreases clocks because of the extra heat.



Mussels said:


> In all the images, it's one of two things:
> 1. The PBO limits are reached and its cold and fine, but lower than expected performance
> 
> 2. the PBO limits are not reached, and thermals are 85C+ in the downclocking range


Yeah it is a thermal limit, but I don't think its my cooler. Aside from just being a terrible sample, my theory is that the TIM isn't making proper contact so after a certain point it doesn't matter what cooling you have, it simply won't improve. But without testing another cooler I can't really prove that.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 10, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> Official bios, its a good thing they did leave it in.
> 
> 
> Looks like mine needs 1.16v~ and 75-80tdc to hit 4.29-4.3ghz effective on agesa 1206.
> ...



There's not much point adding voltage at stock limits. Your 142W -30 clocks already weren't that bad, and here you're just thermally limited so more Vcore just works against you.

What I was curious about is whether +0.05 helps at 90W, where Vcore just looks low. Or, if your clocks improve when going from say 90/60/90 to 120/65/90.

+0.18 and more is just too much. +0.31 is like, 1.45V. For safety Vcache has a limit of like 1.35V theoretical and 1.3V practical.

What's your mobo temp when you wake up in the morning and start up?

Also, I've been meaning to ask, 11GB of RAM use while doing nothing is a LOT   are you sure nothing's running in the background?


----------



## LordsnLadies (Nov 10, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> What I was curious about is whether +0.05 helps at 90W, where Vcore just looks low. Or, if your clocks improve when going from say 90/60/90 to 120/65/90.


90/60/90 @ -30mv and +0.05vcore




So it didn't really help, only made things worse. Without the vcore offset it can maintain 4.1-4.125ghz.



tabascosauz said:


> What's your mobo temp when you wake up in the morning and start up?


I'll check tomorrow. I would imagine like 30-35c, atm its sitting at 38c.



tabascosauz said:


> Also, I've been meaning to ask, 11GB of RAM use while doing nothing is a LOT   are you sure nothing's running in the background?



Windows 11 uses a lot of memory. Just idling with nothing running it uses 8-9gb. But yes, I have a few apps like steam or spotify in the background.

I did try testing on a windows 10 bootable OS, and my cinebench scores on there were like 1000 points higher at the same clock speeds. Just wish it improved thermal/clock behaviour too.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 10, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> 90/60/90 @ -30mv and +0.05vcore
> View attachment 269421
> 
> So it didn't really help, only made things worse. Without the vcore offset it can maintain 4.1-4.125ghz.
> ...



Hmmm. How's your ST results? Around 1450-1500?

What background stuff do you have running? I've been using 11 basically since release - at idle I'm around 4GB used physical RAM, on 22H2. I don't really slim down my 11 installs either, except a few tweaks from here (mostly settings not removing stuff):









						Windows 11 Tweaks for GPU Benchmark
					

Updated for 22H2  - Install without Internet - When it prompts you to go online, press Shift+F10 and type "OOBE\BYPASSNRO" (that's an o not a zero at the end). After the automatic reboot you can install without network - Install on systems without TPM, UEFI or other requirements...




					www.techpowerup.com
				




For a 21C ambient, I'm at 22C mobo temp in the morning. Unless your case has really bad airflow, that's a big difference for supposedly similar ambient temps

Easy way to tell if your windows install is exceptionally dirty is just to run R23 in safemode. I get the same scores within margin of error. I don't expect it to be the cause of the low clocks though


----------



## LordsnLadies (Nov 10, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Hmmm. How's your ST results? Around 1450-1500?


I ran it twice now (that was a painful wait), got 1388 and 1362pts.



tabascosauz said:


> For a 21C ambient, I'm at 22C mobo temp in the morning. Unless your case has really bad airflow, that's a big difference for supposedly similar ambient temps


That is pretty cool temps. I don't think mine ever hits such low temps, ill have to confirm tomorrow.



tabascosauz said:


> What background stuff do you have running? I've been using 11 basically since release - at idle I'm around 4GB used physical RAM, on 22H2.


4GB on windows 11, didn't even think that was possible.. Currently I've got steam, spotify, windows mail, one drive (can disable this because i dont use), icue, razer synapse, steelseries software, free download manager. There is one thing that has been plaguing me since windows 10 and its this super long wait after you enter your credentials to log in. I think its creating a system restore or something.

Thanks for that link though, will check it out.



tabascosauz said:


> Easy way to tell if your windows install is exceptionally dirty is just to run R23 in safemode. I get the same scores within margin of error. I don't expect it to be the cause of the low clocks though


I'm certain my OS is bloated and interfering with results. Which is why I see such a big difference going to a windows 10 bootable which has basically no extra programs running.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 10, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> I ran it twice now (that was a painful wait), got 1388 and 1362pts.



Even in safemode?

That's either really low ST clocks, or a metric ton of background processes. Would be interested to see how you're clocking during the ST test.

I didn't think much of background programs at first, because in your screenshots Global Frequency Limit looked fine (is basically the clock ceiling at any given moment, if you have a very busy idle then you will probably never see Global Limit >4450 at idle). But that clearly isn't the case.



LordsnLadies said:


> 4GB on windows 11, didn't even think that was possible.. Currently I've got steam, spotify, windows mail, one drive (can disable this because i dont use), icue, razer synapse, steelseries software, free download manager. There is one thing that has been plaguing me since windows 10 and its this super long wait after you enter your credentials to log in. I think its creating a system restore or something.
> 
> I'm certain my OS is bloated and interfering with results. Which is why I see such a big difference going to a windows 10 bootable which has basically no extra programs running.



In daily use I'm not far off, at about 10GB. With nothing active open, that comes down to about 5GB without going out of my way to close background stuff.

But when benching I don't keep anything open that I don't absolutely need. I disable all necessary startup stuff, disable internet, stop and disable the Windows Search service, and then reboot (important after disabling internet for a cleaner boot). Why reduce perf for no reason, right.

The likes of CAM, iCUE or Synapse are not generally things viewed as favourable to performance.



LordsnLadies said:


> That is pretty cool temps. I don't think mine ever hits such low temps, ill have to confirm tomorrow.



See, that's the thing, if I roughly go off your mobo temps (which are not precisely indicative of ambient, but provide some reference), CPU temps don't seem unreasonable considering that you are pushing a greater proportion of Core power than most people.

But for an ambient between 20-25C, temps are not great.


----------



## damric (Nov 10, 2022)

Sorry didn't read the whole thread.

What's your water temp? 
What's your ambient temp?

If they are close within 5 degrees that's good.

If not you need more radiator. I bet that RTX is just heating up the water.

I prefer overkill on radiators.


----------



## LordsnLadies (Nov 10, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Even in safemode?
> That's either really low ST clocks, or a metric ton of background processes. Would be interested to see how you're clocking during the ST test.



I tried using safe mode on win11 but the cpu reading wouldn't show more than 3.4ghz, so here's ST and MT runs from win10 hirens bootable. It was hitting 4.4-4.5ghz on ST.

142/80/120 @ -30mv. Although for ST i used 90/60/90








damric said:


> Sorry didn't read the whole thread.
> 
> What's your water temp?
> What's your ambient temp?
> ...



Ambient temp: 28c~
Coolant temp on balanced profile: 35c

More radiator... I'd need a bigger case then .

@tabascosauz @Mussels 

This is the friends setup with the golden 5800x3d just for comparison. You'd think my setup would win over a mid-tower that's cramped.


----------



## tabascosauz (Nov 10, 2022)

damric said:


> Sorry didn't read the whole thread.
> 
> What's your water temp?
> What's your ambient temp?
> ...



AIO, not copper loop, GPU is not in it

not sure I would apply the ol loop temps wisdom here



LordsnLadies said:


> I tried using safe mode on win11 but the cpu reading wouldn't show more than 3.4ghz, so here's ST and MT runs from win10 hirens bootable. It was hitting 4.4-4.5ghz on ST.
> 
> 142/80/120 @ -30mv. Although for ST i used 90/60/90
> 
> ...



3.4GHz sounds like something's up with your BIOS. I ran in safemode just fine yesterday. I don't use monitoring software because a lot of them are borked in safemode (Benchmate also doesn't run in safemode), only there for the scores

3.4Ghz is what happens if you try to use a 5800X3D on any BIOS earlier than 1206. Locked to base clock.

At 142W ST score looks good. MT score also looks good for 4.3GHz.

28C ambient sounds much more likely.


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## freeagent (Nov 10, 2022)

28c is pretty warm, but don't tell @Mussels that 

My mobo temp is 23c right now


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## tabascosauz (Nov 11, 2022)

freeagent said:


> 28c is pretty warm, but don't tell @Mussels that
> 
> My mobo temp is 23c right now



Like always, wait for you to accomplish the impossible   all the 15200+ results I've seen use BCLK

I ain't catching up to you with temps like these 







LordsnLadies said:


> I tried using safe mode on win11 but the cpu reading wouldn't show more than 3.4ghz, so here's ST and MT runs from win10 hirens bootable. It was hitting 4.4-4.5ghz on ST.
> 
> This is the friends setup with the golden 5800x3d just for comparison. You'd think my setup would win over a mid-tower that's cramped.



Just reminded me of something, a while ago another feller had some appreciable clocks/temps issues, albeit living in a hotter climate with an ambient of around 30-35C

It turned out to be the AIO in the end for whatever reason, and on a D15 they managed to get temps down to 78C @ 100W with -30.

If the TC12DX is getting the exact same temps, might want to consider testing the AIO elsewhere or thinking about an RMA.









						help with undervolting 5800x3d
					

If you heard cracking then something isn’t right, take it apart and start over.  i got my hands on a d15 chromax today rented it from a shop to test with it and see in a few hours after work i will try again  ok got the cooler and here is the test result please tell me it's good




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## QuietBob (Nov 11, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> I tried using safe mode on win11 but the cpu reading wouldn't show more than 3.4ghz, so here's ST and MT runs from win10 hirens bootable. It was hitting 4.4-4.5ghz on ST.
> 
> 142/80/120 @ -30mv. Although for ST i used 90/60/90


Your run in this post looks like stock CPU, and the R23 scores are good. But you stated otherwise. How did you undervolt the CPU? By -30mv do you mean -30 CO in PBO2 Tuner? It seems that the settings you chose did not get applied.

Could you post a screenshot showing HWinfo during R23 at full stock settings?


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## Chicken Patty (Nov 11, 2022)

Sorry guys, been testing couple different things without having to completely re-do my loop.  I did re-paste and re-seat the CPU block, felt it helped a bit but not much, maybe 2-3 degrees max, which is something.  I removed by 7" LCD display from the rear case position that I used to monitor the PC, and added a rear case fan. I tried both way, pulling air in and pushing air out.  Pulling air out definitely worked best in terms of bringing down water temps.  This case by default is not the greatest for airflow so I've read and with rads mounted in front and up top, I would suppose air flow is not the greatest.  My fans are Lian Li SL Infinity's which are very pretty and the daisy chain design is awesome, but don't flow the most air.  However, lately temps have been pretty good since I added the rear fan exhausting out. What I did notice is that the overall temp inside the case was very hot, components were really warm to the touch, ever since it has dropped my water temp by about 2-3 degrees and that's really helped.

Room is 27-28ºc right now as I just got home from work, left it running a  flight in flight simulator 2020, and water temp is 35-36ºc, and CPU hottest was about 70ºc with default values.  Not using PBO2 Tuner or anything.

So I definitely think between the re-paste/re-seat, and the extra fan blowing that hot air out of the case, it's improved tons.

This is the build, I was never able to upload a picture when I created this thread.





Average core temps. Much better than before.


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## Mussels (Nov 11, 2022)

tabascosauz said:


> Something does seem off with the AIO performance-wise if it can't even beat a TC12DX


The review i linked showed that unless its at high pump speeds, it's simply not great. They did testing with all sorts of combinations and it basically didnt handle things well, on a much easier to cool CPU unless it was on extremely loud settings - but they tried to make it sound good since it could be quiet and good performing, just not at the same time.


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 11, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> Your run in this post looks like stock CPU, and the R23 scores are good. But you stated otherwise. How did you undervolt the CPU? By -30mv do you mean -30 CO in PBO2 Tuner? It seems that the settings you chose did not get applied.
> 
> Could you post a screenshot showing HWinfo during R23 at full stock settings?



Just to be clear, this is on agesa 1206. On 1207 my chip gets throttled to 3.8ghz at stock. Ambient temps in the room is 29c.






Mussels said:


> The review i linked showed that unless its at high pump speeds, it's simply not great. They did testing with all sorts of combinations and it basically didnt handle things well, on a much easier to cool CPU unless it was on extremely loud settings - but they tried to make it sound good since it could be quiet and good performing, just not at the same time.


I only get a 2-3c reduction if I put it on extreme profile for pumps and fans, so clearly it doesn't help much. I don't actually have the capellix, here's one of the few reviews of mine: review

I feel like I wasted a whole lot of money for nothing on this cooler. I was just naive in thinking an AIO would provide significant changes. R3.3k (190$~) vs R750 cooler (43$~), yeah you'd think there would be some improvement...


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## QuietBob (Nov 11, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> Just to be clear, this is on agesa 1206. On 1207 my chip gets throttled to 3.8ghz at stock. Ambient temps in the room is 29c.


There is nothing wrong with your CPU. At stock, it draws a little more power than mine in R23. This could be due to the difference in silicon quality, your mobo's default voltages, the VRMs or indeed CPU temperature. Your room temperature in the last run is clearly lower than 29c. It seems to be in the 23-24c range, as evidenced by the SSD temps. Why don't you get a cheap digital thermometer to confirm it?

That said, it looks like your tweaks have little effect on the CPU. The first shot is supposed to be "142/80/120 @ -30mv", while the second full stock:





There is barely any difference between the power drawn. In fact, max CPU core voltage is higher in the first run, which makes no sense for "-30mV". When applied properly, -30 CO should bring the max core voltage below 1.2v and package power close to 100w. Again, to me that points to the changes not being in effect.

91c in R23 with a 360mm AIO in a 23c room isn't a great result, TBH. If you've checked the mounting and applied TIM properly, it would suggest that this AIO simply isn't the most effective cooling solution for the 5800X3D. I get the following in a 22c room:





This was achieved with a stock Assassin III, a single stock 140x25 intake fan @ 1150rpm, and a single Arctic F12 120x25 exhaust fan @ 1450 rpm. No OS tricks were used, normal Windows boot with an active internet connection and third-party AV protection running in the background. In fact, this was the third consecutive run -- I had to disable HWinfo to score over 15,200. To get maximum MT boost you need to stay below 75c.

EDIT: Naturally, with -30 CO on all cores.


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 11, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> Your room temperature in the last run is clearly lower than 29c. It seems to be in the 23-24c range, as evidenced by the SSD temps. Why don't you get a cheap digital thermometer to confirm it?


I used an infrared thermometer pointed at the ceiling to get an ambient temp. I don't know how accurate that is.



QuietBob said:


> That said, it looks like your tweaks have little effect on the CPU. The first shot is supposed to be "142/80/120 @ -30mv", while the second full stock:


It definitely does have an effect making it -30mv. My clocks go up to 4.3ghz over stock and that's the max it can achieve on cinebench because of thermals and/or silicon lottery. The best I can get it is just over 4.3ghz with the 80tdc and 120tdc limit.



QuietBob said:


> 91c in R23 with a 360mm AIO in a 23c room isn't a great result, TBH. If you've checked the mounting and applied TIM properly, it would suggest that this AIO simply isn't the most effective cooling solution for the 5800X3D. I get the following in a 22c room:


Here's what hardware unboxed got with the h150i capellix at 21c ambient: link

Granted mine isnt a capellix, it shouldn't be too far off from this. Don't know if their result is any good either.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 11, 2022)

@QuietBob to be fair, the screenshots are being taken during R23, so it appears from the current Vcore values that CO is making a difference. But I have to say, the crazy peak spikes in Vcore I haven't ever seen from a 5800X3D, CO or no CO. Just one of a number of bizarre behaviours.

@LordsnLadies honestly at this point I would just take the AIO off and reduce the list of suspects by 1. Assuming a warmish ambient, you already know that your old TC12DX roughly does the job. And if you can buy locally/Amazon a better cooler that you can return within a month, could use that to test and make sure hardware is the culprit. Or if you can find a Fuma 2 to level the playing field with the friend's X3D, even better.

I don't really believe these issues are confined to the AIO. Too many strange things going on around your clocks and voltages on this board.


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## QuietBob (Nov 11, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> I used an infrared thermometer pointed at the ceiling to get an ambient temp. I don't know how accurate that is.


These may show 5 degree variation measurement to measurement, even the more expensive semi-pro models. Your room temperature cannot possibly be 29c when your SSD recorded 25c minimum and your case 26c. Your current SSD temp is 27c.



LordsnLadies said:


> It definitely does have an effect making it -30mv. My clocks go up to 4.3ghz over stock and that's the max it can achieve on cinebench because of thermals and/or silicon lottery. The best I can get it is just over 4.3ghz with the 80tdc and 120tdc limit.


Are you using PBO2 Tool? Undervolting your CPU by 30mV is not the same as applying -30 CO. The latter will have a much more pronounced effect on power consumption and temps.



LordsnLadies said:


> Here's what hardware unboxed got with the h150i capellix at 21c ambient: link Granted mine isnt a capellix, it shouldn't be too far off from this. Don't know if their result is any good either.


Steve's 84c in R23 with 21c ambient isn't particularly low. My rig was 85c full stock in a 25c room. This leads me to believe that the h150i isn't a great performer given its size, and most probably not best suited to the 5800X3D. You may get better results with air cooling. What is your case and fan config?


----------



## LordsnLadies (Nov 11, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> Are you using PBO2 Tool? Undervolting your CPU by 30mV is not the same as applying -30 CO. The latter will have a much more pronounced effect on power consumption and temps.


Yeah sorry, when i say -30mv i mean through pbo tuner.



QuietBob said:


> You may get better results with air cooling. What is your case and fan config?


My setup

I shared this before and it seems the biggest sticking point is the hdd bays in front. I'm going to remove the hdd bays and put a spare 140mm fan on top to get more exhaust from the rad.


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## 3x0 (Nov 11, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> Yeah sorry, when i say -30mv i mean through pbo tuner.


Only PBO2 Tool can set the CO and custom PPT/TDC/EDC limits, the options in the BIOS are not functional despite being there. Only modified BIOSes have those options enabled and functional.


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 11, 2022)

3x0 said:


> Only PBO2 Tool can set the CO and custom PPT/TDC/EDC limits, the options in the BIOS are not functional despite being there. Only modified BIOSes have those options enabled and functional.


The official asus rog strix bios does allow you to change ppt, tdc and edc limits. Just not CO.


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## 3x0 (Nov 11, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> The official asus rog strix bios does allow you to change ppt, tdc and edc limits.


But only to lower values than official AFAIK. Anyway, -30 CO value is equal to about -90mV since every increment of CO is 2-3mV


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## tabascosauz (Nov 11, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> Yeah sorry, when i say -30mv i mean through pbo tuner.
> 
> 
> My setup
> ...



This dispels a lot of the uncertainties......

I can tell you right now that 0 air is getting through those drive cages unless you run all case fans on full blast. 

Even if it did, none of it is useful to CPU cooling. 

Having seen the photos, your friend's setup is much more preferable. You won't get any optimal results out of either the AIO or air cooler like this, regardless of how fast you run your fans.


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## LordsnLadies (Nov 12, 2022)

@tabascosauz So i removed the hdd bays and replaced one of the intake fans.

Would you say its worth mounting fans on top of the rad for more exhaust too?

Edit:

Alright so i installed 3x 120mm top exhaust fans and it does seem to have made a difference.

Just as an experiment, I put the aircon on at 18c and waited for the coolant temp to drop down significantly (23.9c in this case). Put AIO fans at 100% and pump on extreme.

142/80/120 @ -30 co


----------



## LordsnLadies (Nov 13, 2022)

@QuietBob 

I did some more tests this evening with the AC in the room set to 16c and maxed out fans on radiator. 

90/60/80 @ -30 co:








						90-60-80.png
					






					drive.google.com
				




142/80/120 @ -30 co:








						142-80-120.png
					






					drive.google.com
				




no limits @ -30 co:








						no limits -30.png
					






					drive.google.com
				




stock:








						stock.png
					






					drive.google.com
				




What do you think? 



damric said:


> Sorry didn't read the whole thread.
> 
> What's your water temp?
> What's your ambient temp?
> ...


Sorry for only replying now. At idle the coolant temp is about 5c higher than ambient if i max out the fans, otherwise an extra 2c on top of that.


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## Zach_01 (Nov 13, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> 88/60/90 @ -20mv
> 
> 88/60/90 @ -30mv
> 
> Stock limits @ -30mv


Don’t know if anyone said so far but I saw you keep putting mV at the end or the undervolting.
I assume you are referring to CurveOptimizer negative magnitude.

FYI these are negative (or positive) 1-30 steps and it’s not mVolts.
Each step is a range of 3-5mV
3mV on high/highest clock and 5mV on low/lowest clock.

So when you set CurveOptimizer to -30 it means you are shifting the v/f down by 90-150mV.


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## QuietBob (Nov 13, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> I did some more tests this evening with the AC in the room set to 16c and maxed out fans on radiator.


I'm confused. Do you have snapshot CPU polling enabled in HWinfo?

Stock results look right, but your clock is lower than it should be -- only 4180 with max temp at 80c. Unless that was the moment when a new cycle in R23 starts? I got 4300-4325 at 85c (25c room). Also, your PPT/TDC/EDC limits were maxed out at some point, while mine were at 83%/80%/93% tops. Perhaps the BIOS is messing up with some settings?

With -30 CO the clocks look much better at 4415, as expected at this temperature. But your voltage remains largely unaffected by the CO, while power usage is the same as stock and the limits are still being maxed out.

I'd clear CMOS and stick with AGESA 1206. If that doesn't help, I'm afraid a clean OS install is in order.


----------



## 3x0 (Nov 13, 2022)

He should post a screenshot with PBO2 Tuner program with CO applied open next to HWInfo after a CB23 run. Would dispel a lot of confusion.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 13, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> @tabascosauz So i removed the hdd bays and replaced one of the intake fans.
> 
> Would you say its worth mounting fans on top of the rad for more exhaust too?
> 
> Just as an experiment, I put the aircon on at 18c and waited for the coolant temp to drop down significantly (23.9c in this case). Put AIO fans at 100% and pump on extreme.



Anything helps, especially airflow that actually gets to the CPU and AIO without being blocked by drive cages or GPU. If you find massive differences between ambient and motherboard temp (5-10C+), improve airflow.

As for cooling: the results at 16C ambient don't look all that bad, considering the high Vcore and high proportion of Core power. Not the most impressive cooler.
As for performance: clearly the scores are up to snuff and clocks are okay if not perfect. It's just that the Vcore is all over the place (way low at 90W, way high at 142W) and your lower power performance is below expected - clearly something is wonky with either BIOS, board, or CPU.
If you can't find someone to make a modded 2604 BIOS, then just do all your tweaks in PBO2 Tuner. Both CO and power. Stop doing your limits in BIOS. Even if they work, the only reason you have access to it is because Asus forgot to hide it.

You can reflash 2604 at any time if you suspect BIOS corruption, you have nothing to lose except a few minutes re-entering settings.

Really, if you aren't dealing with performance issues in games, we're just going around in circles. Just leave it be, and maybe reinstall Windows while you're at it.


----------



## LordsnLadies (Nov 14, 2022)

QuietBob said:


> I'm confused. Do you have snapshot CPU polling enabled in HWinfo?


Didn't even know about this setting until now. It was not enabled, i just used default settings.



QuietBob said:


> I'd clear CMOS and stick with AGESA 1206. If that doesn't help, I'm afraid a clean OS install is in order.


I performed those tests on a win10 bootable so I could get good results on cinebench. On my win11 install the score would have been down 1000 points, which isn't accurate.

I'll try clear the CMOS and I do think a reinstall is a good idea, it's a win11 that was upgraded from win10 and one I've been using across different motherboards and ssds.



tabascosauz said:


> As for cooling: the results at 16C ambient don't look all that bad, considering the high Vcore and high proportion of Core power. Not the most impressive cooler


What coolers do you consider good that are AIO? This one wasn't exactly cheap, so I'm just wondering what would have been a better choice. I thought it would be better than my friend's sythe fuma rev b which costs less than half of my cooler and ofc better than the phanteks. 



tabascosauz said:


> Really, if you aren't dealing with performance issues in games, we're just going around in circles. Just leave it be, and maybe reinstall Windows while you're at it.


This is why I have been stalling the RMA. All the games I play are able to get full clock speed even on the lower power limit settings (90/60/80 for example). Just seems like it would be more effort than its worth, because I'll be without a cpu for 1-2 weeks and there is a high possibility they'll tell me nothing is wrong with the cpu.



3x0 said:


> He should post a screenshot with PBO2 Tuner program with CO applied open next to HWInfo after a CB23 run. Would dispel a lot of confusion.


I do mention what settings I've been using. I just apply the -30 CO to all cores and those power limits in pbo tuner, nothing else. Will include PBO window in future screenshots.


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## tabascosauz (Nov 14, 2022)

LordsnLadies said:


> This is why I have been stalling the RMA. All the games I play are able to get full clock speed even on the lower power limit settings (90/60/80 for example). Just seems like it would be more effort than its worth, because I'll be without a cpu for 1-2 weeks and there is a high possibility they'll tell me nothing is wrong with the cpu.



And honestly that's reason enough not to. 5800X3D isn't designed as an all-core beast anyway. All of these minor issues including temps are to do with all-core, which games pretty much don't actually use (except for ancillary tasks like loading shaders).

As for RMA, I don't think AMD does much additional testing once they receive it, not like RMAs of GPUs or boards. As long as you can convince the rep with your RMA request, and your CPU doesn't show up with physical damage or defaced IHS, shouldn't be any problems.

I straight up wouldn't recommend an AIO. It doesn't give you any real headroom on this CPU since the real advantages of water are in all-core. Save the water for a 5900X or 5950X or Intel that you can meaningfully push to higher power. Fuma 2, Dark Rock Pro 4, U12A, D15, FC140, take your pick of high end air coolers.......there are others. Thermalright PA120 is cheap.


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## INSTG8R (Nov 19, 2022)

Well like the comedy of errors that this rebuild entailed I found the last one. My case 360 ad fans are ancient 2 pin full spoed(1300rom) and run off a Molex splitter. well just like my pump in my haste I yanked the super tiny positI’ve wire oiut of the Molex. When I “repaired it” I just spliced it onto the red wire…DERP! My fans were only running at 50% sorted it out properly the other other day. Now back to average 35C idle 75C max full MT load.


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## cattboy (Dec 4, 2022)

This threads a great read, appreciate everyones replies.

Consuming everything before my Kryonaut arrives to paste a new 5800x3d (side grade from 5900x cuz vCache)

Notes:

1)
AGESA 1.2.0.6 > 1.2.0.7 for best frequency?
  GB only offers 1.2.0.6B, any noticeable disadvantages or advice?  I pre-flashed 1.2.0.7 so will maybe downgrade after I poke around.

2)
Will manually set PPT/EDC/TDC, did this on 5900x assume same process works of setting to Mobo limits and using pbotuner2 under stress (prime95/etc) to dial it in?

Others values (for ballpark)
88ppt 60tdc 90edc
100/65/90

3)
5800x3d with 360AIO with -30CO can achieve 4450mhz at 25*c ambient is +/- 60-70* at full load prime95? 

Not to derail, everyone's so active and this thread was helpful.

Hope you tame your temps LordsnLadies

cb


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## tabascosauz (Dec 4, 2022)

cattboy said:


> This threads a great read, appreciate everyones replies.
> 
> Consuming everything before my Kryonaut arrives to paste a new 5800x3d (side grade from 5900x cuz vCache)
> 
> ...



1. 1207 generally not viewed positively, but you may be lucky and find less or no clock loss. GB probably have a thread for beta BIOSes out there on some forum

2. If you have the cooling for it and don't run all-core 24/7 there's no need for power limits. Temp reduction should first come from CO offset (-20/-25/-30 etc). Gaming or daily use there shouldn't be much need for lower limits. On mine I get full CB score (15000-15200) at 105/80/100 so that's what I run, because the rest of power budget is unnecessary outside of BBP/SFT ycruncher or linpack. If you're hammering it in CPU-heavy ycruncher tests you will need more power budget and cooler, but that's not a real world workload.

3. Not sure why you would consider CPU-heavy tests in Prime95 (smallest/small FFT) for Zen 2 or 3 CPU. Use R23 if you want a more realistic load or scores to compare, use ycruncher/OCCT/Linpack if you want a stress test. If you can hold 4450 all core in R23 (not hard at all with a -25 or -30 offset), you'll be able to do that in most things.


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## QuietBob (Dec 4, 2022)

cattboy said:


> AGESA 1.2.0.6 > 1.2.0.7 for best frequency?


Get 1206 for maximum clocks, many owners reported lowered boost with 1207.


cattboy said:


> Will manually set PPT/EDC/TDC


As mentioned, no need for manual limits. All you need is CO, -30 should be stable for most scenarios. With adequate cooling, you'll be able to run all core loads at acceptable temperatures.


cattboy said:


> 5800x3d with 360AIO with -30CO can achieve 4450mhz at 25*c ambient is +/- 60-70* at full load prime95?


There's no way you can keep a 5800X3D below 70c at 25c ambient with traditional cooling. With a 360 AIO, you'll top out at around 85c in R23 on stock , and hopefully about 75c with -30 CO given proper airflow. If you can keep the CPU below that temperature, you'll see the maximum 4450 boost across all cores.


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## cattboy (Dec 5, 2022)

Thanks for the replies, got the beast up today.

Need to fiddle with RAM more and find out how to get 4550mhz constantly while gaming, but so far I'm happy.

Edit* 1206b
Default ppt tdc edc
Latest chipset 4.11.xxxxx


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## Johnthedon1 (Dec 5, 2022)

90c is fine for a stress test ur never going to do anything on ur pc that will push it that far, 
You could use pbo optimiser with a negative offset to try help


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## iGigaFlop2 (Dec 19, 2022)

I was wondering about temps also because it runs a good bit hotter than my tuned 5950x, i just got it up and running about 10 min ago its on a kraken x72 cooler with fans and pump running .


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 21, 2022)

iGigaFlop2 said:


> I was wondering about temps also because it runs a good bit hotter than my tuned 5950x, i just got it up and running about 10 min ago its on a kraken x72 cooler with fans and pump running .


3D cache is why


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## Tropick (Dec 21, 2022)

iGigaFlop2 said:


> I was wondering about temps also because it runs a good bit hotter than my tuned 5950x, i just got it up and running about 10 min ago its on a kraken x72 cooler with fans and pump running .


I just got finished building a custom watercooling loop with 420mm and 360mm rads and even with the pump running 75% speed it tops out at 73C during stress tests. The 5800X3D is just a hot running chip unfortunately.


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## freeagent (Dec 21, 2022)

I think the opposite. For me it is such a cool running chip I could run my cpu cooler with no fans on it, and just the two stock fractal fans up front and see no signs of remotely overheating while running Linpack, OCCT, Cinebench, F@H, WCG, etc..


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## Tropick (Dec 21, 2022)

freeagent said:


> I think the opposite. For me it is such a cool running chip I could run my cpu cooler with no fans on it, and just the two stock fractal fans up front and see no signs of remotely overheating while running Linpack, OCCT, Cinebench, F@H, WCG, etc..


Seriously? Are you using a Ryzen offset bracket? I've repasted twice now and still can't get it below the low 70s at its peak, It's baffling. Every time I think I've figured out a way to tame it I get nearly the same numbers. Never had it overheat but mid/high 70s for a relatively low clocked 8-core CPU on a custom WC loop just seems too high.

Edit: I know it's not a problem with loop flow because my heavily, heavily overclocked 6950XT averages 36c during Time Spy stress test and hotspot maxes out at 43c during the same.


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## freeagent (Dec 21, 2022)

Tropick said:


> Seriously? Are you using a Ryzen offset bracket? I've repasted twice now and still can't get it below the low 70s at its peak, It's baffling. Every time I think I've figured out a way to tame it I get nearly the same numbers. Never had it overheat but mid/high 70s for a relatively low clocked 8-core CPU on a custom WC loop just seems too high.
> 
> Edit: I know it's not a problem with loop flow because my heavily, heavily overclocked 6950XT averages 36c during Time Spy stress test and hotspot maxes out at 43c during the same.


Yeah it’s pretty crazy. And no one believes me lol. I took a few screens and you can see the cores and ccd are nicely grouped together tightly. When I run a fan the temps are a little more spread apart. The temp in my space is 18-19c right now, the furnace comes on to keep us from dieing and then turns off


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## cattboy (Jan 1, 2023)

freeagent said:


> For me it is such a cool running chip


What cooler?
What thermal paste?
Did you apply paste in X format or evenly spread?
Curious how you got yours so low as mine always peaks to 80c and my MC is not close to 15k on 360AIO, TG kryo spread, on 1207agesa


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## freeagent (Jan 1, 2023)

cattboy said:


> What cooler?
> What thermal paste?
> Did you apply paste in X format or evenly spread?
> Curious how you got yours so low as mine always peaks to 80c and my MC is not close to 15k on 360AIO, TG kryo spread, on 1207agesa


Thermalright FC140
Thermalright TF7
I use the spatula
Not sure?


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## cherryberry (Jan 5, 2023)

Make sure to take the plastic off lol.


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## Space Lynx (Jan 5, 2023)

freeagent said:


> Sounds a bit warm as mine will run a 10GB load in Linpack 30 times at 4400MHz and barely crack 80 with ARGB fans.



Optimum Tech over on YouTube has already demonstrated that 5800x3d's vary wildly in temps.  

His latest video about his new 4090 PC talks about it some.


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## freeagent (Jan 5, 2023)

Space Lynx said:


> Optimum Tech over on YouTube has already demonstrated that 5800x3d's vary wildly in temps.
> 
> His latest video about his new 4090 PC talks about it some.


I made that post while running PA120.


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## candymancan21 (Monday at 6:13 AM)

My 5800x 3d on ny custom loop with a gpu block on my 6900xt and two reservoirs and two 360mm fans.  With 11 thermaltake fans in the case and on the rads..  I get 84c during prime 95 small ffts.

But this is using conductonaught liquid metal.  When i use arctic silver 5 and MX4 i was getting instant 90c.

However i noticed last night when gaming playing warhammer total war 3 and watcjing youtube on my 2nd monitor.  My temos did peak at 86c on the CCO and 81 for the rest.   But average was in the 60-70s.  The peaks were interesting though.  And made wonder if something happened to the liquid metal over the last 3-4 days.  My idle temps stayed at 43c as well 30 min after gaming.. prior they were 36-39 depending on room temp..  so i gatta keep an eye on this.. It coulda just been a hotter room from the stove ..  Or it might be that i have 4 sticks of memory now.  And my flck is at 1867 and memory is at 3733.. not sure if the increase in flck and 4 sticks of ram vs 2 played a roll in the increase in temps.   OR maybe it was me watching youtube while gaming on two monitors.. maybe increasing cpu usage and thus increasing temps.. i think it was probably me watching youtube when also gaming that did it.

Interesting because prior to liquid metal i didnt see that gaming but i didnt watch videos..  But my room swings in temps due to the wood stove in the house again..

Cinebench23.. prior to liquid metal i was getting high 70s like 76-78..... after liquid metal i got low 70s for an average 5c drop in temperature.   Cores averaged 69-71c.

Idle temps also dropped from 39c to 36c.

Im using an older EK Supremacy Evo block btw.   Liquid metal helped alot..  i ran lprime95 small ffts for 4 hours and max temos didnt go above 84.  Again prior INSTANTLY it went to 90.


I also did swap orientation of my block i dunno if that played a role.   Now the evo inlet is on the left and outlet on the right.  But i dont think that matters as the jet puts water in the middle anyway.


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## Miroo/\:o:/\ (Monday at 11:25 PM)

Hi,
I am jumping in this topic as I am experiencing thermal issues that are badly affecting the CPU performances.
I recently upgraded to a 5800X3D ( from intel platform...so I am a total ignorant of AMD CPU/BIOS/Motherborad)

The problem is that beast is idling at Core Temp of ~50°c which obviously lead to thermal limitations under load in CB R23 ....it peaks straight away to 90°c and then start reducing freq to 4.0~4.15 GHZ
I read the entire topic and  tried CO in bios and in PBO2 105/65/90 curve -30. What ever I do it can't handle more than Vcore 1.1v sometimes even lower. I did repaste re-seat and get some improvements but very little.
So I am wondering if the issue is related to my AIO ....may be it isn't enough to handle this heat-monster .

This is a CB R23 test with stock settings  ....score 12454pts 

View attachment 278334

CB R23 CO(BIOS) @-30...... score 13164

View attachment 278336

CB R23 test with CO (BIOS) @-30 all cores ...score13164 pts




It goes better but still far from optimal performances of the CPU


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## 3x0 (Tuesday at 12:12 AM)

Miroo/\:o:/\ said:


> So I am wondering if the issue is related to my AIO ....may be it isn't enough to handle this heat-monster .


Are you sure the pump is working/connected?


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## Miroo/\:o:/\ (Tuesday at 12:17 AM)

3x0 said:


> Are you sure the pump is working/connected?


Yes it is running ...at load it runs @2900ish RPM...monitored from CAM



Also Sometimes at cold starts I hear weird sound from the pump like a bad cluntch


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## 3x0 (Tuesday at 12:24 AM)

Then consider returning the CPU. If you're sure the pump and the contact/pressure are OK then there's nothing more to do. I run -30 CO with a Scythe Fuma 2 air cooler below 80C in CB23



Miroo/\:o:/\ said:


> Also Sometimes at cold starts I hear weird sound from the pump like a bad cluntch


Yeah, that doesn't sound that the pump is OK. Maybe there's gunk in the loop preventing good flow of water


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## Miroo/\:o:/\ (Tuesday at 12:43 AM)

CB R23 test  @ current settings CO @-30 vcore offset -0.05 .....score 13520pts



3x0 said:


> Then consider returning the CPU. If you're sure the pump and the contact/pressure are OK then there's nothing more to do. I run -30 CO with a Scythe Fuma 2 air cooler below 80C in CB23


I will try another aio MSI MAG 360 before thinking about an RMA ...really don't want to go through all this


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## candymancan21 (Tuesday at 1:37 AM)

Miroo/\:o:/\ said:


> Yes it is running ...at load it runs @2900ish RPM...monitored from CAM
> 
> View attachment 278339
> 
> Also Sometimes at cold starts I hear weird sound from the pump like a bad cluntch




Its pribably the cold plate on your AIO. I found a thread awhile ago where people investigated the hot temps on the 5000 and 3000 series.. and with the way the cpu core chiplets are positioned it causes issues with some AIOs as the fins on the plate are rectangle shaped for older designed cpus where it was just a rectangle shaped core..  So your entire core is probably not even being cooled properly.   

You might also have a clogged block or vad pump if its making noises or air is in the system..   This is why i despise AIOs they are non servicable..

Im on custom water using an older Ek supremacy evo block and my idle temps are 36-39c and my load temps on cinebench24 are 69-71c on the core and 74 i think on the CCO.   In prime 95 small ffts is 85.

This is on my 5800x 3d


Reposition your block.. turn it the other way so rotate it 1.4 turn if you can to see if that fixes the problem.


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## Miroo/\:o:/\ (Tuesday at 1:52 AM)

I am also a bit confused as I have a Q LED display on the MB that displays temperatures (should be CPU temps) but it is always 10-11°c less than what is shown onHWinfo. Iset on BIOS 0 Fan for case fans below 40°c and the fans are zeroing according to the QLED information



> candymancan21 said:
> 
> 
> > Reposition your block.. turn it the other way so rotate it 1.4 turn if you can to see if that fixes the problem.
> ...


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## manulix (Wednesday at 9:15 AM)

Hi Guys 

This is mine CB23 (Multi-Core) ended with score of *14769 *pt, with BIOS CU settings @Core *-30* and *Gold*/*Silver *Core* -25. *The 5800X3D has reached 80.5 C as the max peak:

The Clocks and Temps they look good to me, what do you think?


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## 3x0 (Wednesday at 10:29 AM)

Close all background applications including HWInfo, the score should be 15k+ with those settings


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## Taraquin (Wednesday at 10:38 AM)

manulix said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> This is mine CB23 (Multi-Core) ended with score of *14769 *pt, with BIOS CU settings @Core *-30* and *Gold*/*Silver *Core* -25. *The 5800X3D has reached 80.5 C as the max peak:
> 
> The Clocks and Temps they look good to me, what do you think?


Try lowering VDD18-voltage in bios (if available) to improve temps and performance even more. Unless you overclock ram above 3800 you can usually lower VDD18 to 1.6-1.7v withouth problems. At the right temp (somewhere below 80C) allcore should be stable 4450MHz and you should get about 15300 in CB23 unless you have too much bloatware etc.


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## 3x0 (Wednesday at 10:41 AM)

Taraquin said:


> Try lowering VDD18-voltage in bios (if available) to improve temps and performance even more.


For me there's no difference 1.6-1.85v VDD18 with 1866 IF


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## Taraquin (Wednesday at 10:46 AM)

3x0 said:


> For me there's no difference 1.6-1.85v VDD18 with 1866 IF


I got a 5C reducing in temps in cinebench on my 5600X, but results may vary.


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## Miroo/\:o:/\ (Wednesday at 5:32 PM)

manulix said:


> The 5800X3D has reached 80.5 C as the max peak:


Out of curiosity ...what cooler do you use?


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## Miroo/\:o:/\ (Wednesday at 8:33 PM)

Hi ,
Still struggling with the temps    
I have a question regarding X62 Kraken performances ; so is it normal to have :
- Idle CPU package T°@ 49~52 °c Min and water T° @35~37°c,
-CB R23 test CPU package T° @steady 90°c (Clock down to 3.8ish) and water T° @46°c , The Package Power was only 74W 

For info: Downgraded to Bios 2803 (Asus Rog B550 XE)
PBO2 @-30 all cores , 105/60/90 Vcore offset -0.1v and SOC offset -0.05v
Repasted, reseated and rotated the cooler pump to 90° from original position 

Under load the cpu go straight to 90°c in 5 to7 seconds and can't hold Vcore 1.0v (down to 0.950-0.975v)

Lot of frustration here


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## freeagent (Wednesday at 8:40 PM)

Wow you are getting no performance out of that thing. I would ditch that CLC and get an FC140. Unless it is 30-35c in your space..


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## Miroo/\:o:/\ (Wednesday at 9:07 PM)

freeagent said:


> Wow you are getting no performance out of that thing. I would ditch that CLC and get an FC140. Unless it is 30-35c in your space..


My ambient T°c is around 25-27°c....something I also noticed from the numerous repaste processes is that the thermal paste is always pushed to the sides leaving some empty spaces in the middle ....could it be that the contact surface of  CPU or Cooler isn't flat ???


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## manulix (Wednesday at 11:48 PM)

Taraquin said:


> Try lowering VDD18-voltage in bios (if available) to improve temps and performance even more. Unless you overclock ram above 3800 you can usually lower VDD18 to 1.6-1.7v withouth problems. At the right temp (somewhere below 80C) allcore should be stable 4450MHz and you should get about 15300 in CB23 unless you have too much bloatware etc.


Lowering the VDD18-voltage will 'broke' the AMD warranty?

I removed a lot of stuff bloatware, but on my OS is running Armory Create and other Asus services which consumes quite a bit of resources


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## Taraquin (Yesterday at 9:59 AM)

manulix said:


> Lowering the VDD18-voltage will 'broke' the AMD warranty?
> 
> I removed a lot of stuff bloatware, but on my OS is running Armory Create and other Asus services which consumes quite a bit of resources


They cannot know if you ran lower voltage. You can't hurt components by lowering voltage, but it may cause instability due to too low power.


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## manulix (Today at 1:04 PM)

3x0 said:


> Close all background applications including HWInfo, the score should be 15k+ with those settings


With all background app closed I got 14900+ PT on CB23

I probably lost silicon lottery


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## Taraquin (Today at 1:37 PM)

manulix said:


> With all background app closed I got 14900+ PT on CB23
> 
> I probably lost silicon lottery


What is temp during load? Ifyou get it down to 75C or lower I bet 15000+ is doable.


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