# i5-2500K - VID, Vcore - some doubts.



## BambOOs (May 11, 2016)

Hello!

First of all, this is my PC specs:

CPU: I5-2500K
MB: AsRock P67 PRO 3 B3
GPU: Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 
RAM: 8 GB DDR3 Kingston HyperX Black 1600 MHz 
PSU: XFX TS 550W
CASE: SPC Gladius M40
CPU COOLER: SPC Grandis v2

After trying to play Watch Dogs on Ultra settings etc (I know it's just bad optimized piece of software, but apart from this I very like it as a game), I saw some CPU bottleneck in some areas. It was just my guess, so I tried to overclock my CPU to ~4.5 GHz to see if there will be any improvement in FPS.

So I went into UEFI and changed some settings like voltage in OFFSET mode, disable C states, set Level of LLC, etc.

Please correct me if I'm wrong:
1. VID - it is "default" voltage on stock speed. Thanks to this, motherboard knows what voltage should apply to CPU.
2. Vcore - actual CPU voltage, depends on current level and type of load, power saving modes. 

I have some doubts of above things. It looks like VID of my CPU is 1.28v according to CoreTemp or RealTemp. Measured with 100 % load (LinX)

While OCing I set offset to +0,005, LLC to Level 3 and multiplier to 45.

PC booted fine, so I started to test stability. Here comes my doubts:

Under 100 % load in LinX, CPU-Z shows 1.35v CPU Voltage, but VID measured in Real/CoreTemp showed 1.4 V.

I thought Vcore will be at 1.28 + 0.005 = 1.2805v

And why VID is so high?

Please help me to understand these things.

Thanks in advance.

Greetings.


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## Folterknecht (May 11, 2016)

https://translate.google.com/transl...5-oc-guide-faq-847597.html&edit-text=&act=url


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## OneMoar (May 12, 2016)

because this is how LLC works
reduce the LLC and vcore untill your load-voltage is <1.25


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## FR@NK (May 12, 2016)

BambOOs said:


> While OCing I set offset to +0,005, LLC to Level 3 and multiplier to 45.



The VID changes depending on the clock speed. So using a higher multi will increase the voltage.

I use a negative offset to keep within safe voltages at higher multipliers.


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## BambOOs (May 12, 2016)

Thanks for answers  

I'm wondering, why my motherboard boosted vcore to 1.35?

I thought LLC is helpful in decrease Vdroop.


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## Mussels (May 12, 2016)

Friend, comrade! Us 2500K users must unite 

1.35V - 1.40V is safe to use 24/7, and should net you 4.5GHz+ - in my case i get 4.7GHz from 1.35V for 24/7 stable daily use

LLC and such decrease VDROOP, by boosting load voltages. It can boost higher than your selected voltage - this varies between mobos so you may have to mess around with that.

Having a K chip, dont worry about offsets and such - just run the 'default' settings with 1.4V Vcore and test one multi at a time (i use 10 passes of intel burn test as a basic test for this stage), and see if its stable or overheating (performance will drop if you thermal throttle).

Once you get a stable clock, tweak the voltage down slightly and repeat the testing. Once you think its stable with results you're happy to keep long term, change it to 100 rounds of IBT, test gaming, etc etc.

Feel free to Enable EIST/C-States and other power saving modes to save power at idle - i leave all mine on with no negative effects.

As for your voltage boosting, disable turbo - you're OCing it anyway, so dont have two conflicting things happening at once, turbo changes the amount of active cores, multi and voltages - do it all manually instead.


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## jboydgolfer (May 12, 2016)

Doesnt get much better these days,than Oc'ing a sexy sb 2500k 
Good memories, great perf.
After going to a 4690k, ive seen no real life performance jumps, ride those 2500's until you no longer can folks.
Intel guffed up on that chip.no money in long life chips


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## Mussels (May 12, 2016)

jboydgolfer said:


> Doesnt get much better these days,than Oc'ing a sexy sb 2500k
> Good memories, great perf.
> After going to a 4690k, ive seen no real life performance jumps, ride those 2500's until you no longer can folks.




according to a thorough single benchmark i did (intel burn tests Glfops result) my OC'd 2500K is faster than a 6600K at stock. Cant beat that performance, for how old it is.


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## jboydgolfer (May 12, 2016)

Mussels said:


> according to a thorough single benchmark i did (intel burn tests Glfops result) my OC'd 2500K is faster than a 6600K at stock. Cant beat that performance, for how old it is.



i agree 100%
they broke the mold (rightfully So) when they stopped production on those puppies.
I remember driving down to Microcenter buying my 2500k, and being able to OC it right to 4.6-4.7Ghz Just on multiplier increases. 
I since sold mine to a TPU member, but its got a good home. I didnt need it any longer, but Anyone who doesnt want to spend the money needlessly, Hold onto them, and Dont scratch that "upgrade itch".


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## BambOOs (May 12, 2016)

TPU community is just awesome. 

So, this is normal, that my mobo is boosting voltage, right?

If I disable turbo, then this boost will be lower? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Does voltage boost depends on multiplier?
Higher multiplier = Higher voltage boost?


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## jboydgolfer (May 12, 2016)

it would stand to reason that your motherboard is correcting for the increased Power requirements of Your CPU, you increasing Multiplier=Voltage is increased. 

I would assume it would be like if you stepped on the Gas pedal in a car, the engine will call for more fuel.


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## Mussels (May 12, 2016)

BambOOs said:


> TPU community is just awesome.
> 
> So, this is normal, that my mobo is boosting voltage, right?
> 
> ...




Turbo has prest voltages and multipliers. Basically, if you're OCing via the multi (which you do on K chips) disable turbo so its not conflicting.

Lets say turbo ran at 1.4V with one core at 4Ghz (made up numbers)
You could OC to 4.5Ghz on all 4 cores at 1.3V - but when only using a single core it could 'turbo' to 1.4V for no reason.
Same goes for LLC/offset voltages, they get applied to the turbo voltages too - which you cant control.


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## BambOOs (May 12, 2016)

I read somewhere that VID is thing to not worry about - is it true?


I thought voltage regulation looks like this:

1. We increase multiplier, so VID also increases.
2. As VID is default voltage that mobo should apply at stock values, then higher multiplier means higher VID, and higher VID means higher default voltage. 

I see that VID is higher than Vcore. So: Vcore = VID - Vdroop - pover savings modes. 

Please tell me if I understand this correctly. 

If not, please correct me


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## Mussels (May 12, 2016)

Default voltage for its default clock speeds.
So if your CPU with EIST has some default values - lets say 1GHz, 1.6GHz, 3.2GHz - it has a voltage programmed in for each of those it tested stable at.

Again when OCing a K chip (and 1155 in general) you can only OC via the multiplier, so you're only dealing with the max voltage - so its irrelevant really.


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## EarthDog (May 12, 2016)

To be clear. VID = Stock voltage. Anything above that is VCore....... though VCore is also VID WHEN AT STOCK VOLTAGE.


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## BambOOs (May 12, 2016)

1. At stock settings my VID is ~1.28 v (under load), but CPU-Z says ~1.25v under load. This difference has to do with Vdroop etc. right? LLC is on level 5.
2. At 4.5 GHz with +0.005 offset my VID is 1.4, but cpu-z says 1.35 under load. LLC is on level 3 so Vdroop should be smaller. Here is my question: mobo boosted voltage to 1.35 (seems to be Vcore) or 1.4 (VID in RealTemp)? And 1.35 value is just 1.4 after vdroop etc?


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## EarthDog (May 12, 2016)

Again VID is NOT anything past your stock voltage. That is VCORE. 

That isn't vDroop, the difference between what two pieces of software read (you said both were under load...). VDroop is the difference between idle voltage in Windows and load voltage in windows.


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## Mussels (May 12, 2016)

BambOOs said:


> 1. At stock settings my VID is ~1.28 v (under load), but CPU-Z says ~1.25v under load. This difference has to do with Vdroop etc. right? LLC is on level 5.
> 2. At 4.5 GHz with +0.005 offset my VID is 1.4, but cpu-z says 1.35 under load. LLC is on level 3 so Vdroop should be smaller. Here is my question: mobo boosted voltage to 1.35 (seems to be Vcore) or 1.4 (VID in RealTemp)? And 1.35 value is just 1.4 after vdroop etc?



it could be doing that, yes. VID could be 'voltage you're meant to be running' and Vcore is what its really running. Software readings arent too accurate so dont waste too much time focused on this.


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## BambOOs (May 12, 2016)

Okey, so how to read actual cpu voltage on Windows?


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## EarthDog (May 12, 2016)

With a digital multi-meter and voltage read points on your board if you have them. If you don't, then you really cant.

Why are you (all) getting caught up in the minutia? All you have is what you are reading from whatever pieces of software. I would pick one and go with it.


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## BambOOs (May 12, 2016)

EarthDog said:


> Again VID is NOT anything past your stock voltage. That is VCORE.
> 
> That isn't vDroop, the difference between what two pieces of software read (you said both were under load...). VDroop is the difference between idle voltage in Windows and load voltage in windows.



So, as an ~actual~ CPU voltage, should I take CPU-Z's Vcore or Real/CoreTemp VID value?


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## Mussels (May 12, 2016)

Let me put it this way: Pick one, lets say CPU-Z. Rely on that number, even if its inaccurate.

You are only using it for comparison on your board, with your CPU, with your system. The only purpose for that number is to see if it goes higher or lower as you change settings - that is all.


To be honest you could totally ignore those software readings and only go by what you set in the BIOS, thats how i got my OC.


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## EarthDog (May 12, 2016)

BambOOs said:


> So, as an ~actual~ CPU voltage, should I take CPU-Z's Vcore or Real/CoreTemp VID value?


CPUz is what I would use. Or, as Mussels said, the BIOS. 

What I do is see what the voltage is in the BIOS.... then see what idle is in CPUz, then see what load is in CPUz and go by that.


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## BambOOs (May 12, 2016)

Hmm, then it's seems VID is just stock voltage (@ stock) and after OC it is just value of voltage CPU "thinks" it need to have. Right?

And in case of my mobo and CPU, when I set multiplier to 45x, mobo set 1.4 voltage, but under load it drops to 1.35 thanks to Vdroop (LLC settings).

Offset depends on VID or Vcore? 

Example: 

When I choose "+0.020" offset, what will increase? Vcore or VID? Actually @4.5 GHz I have 1.4 VID and 1.35 Vcore so it will be 1.42 VID *OR* 1.37 Vcore?


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## EarthDog (May 12, 2016)

Let me put this another way............

VID = Voltage I Demand (at stock).
VCore = Voltage I get/have.

I don't bother with offset so I am not sure...

You are still are not getting it . Again, VID = stock voltage. Period. NOTHING ELSE. Anything else above or below that ONE value is considered VCORE. VID can also be Vcore (and vice verssa) if the Vcore set is the same as VID(stock) voltage.

But again VID = ONE value. Stock voltage. Its wrong to call voltage above/below stock VID.


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## Mussels (May 12, 2016)

and without knowing the exact methods your BIOS uses, we cant really tell you what each setting controls, either - so its a waste of time to fuss over it. Just pick one method to control the voltage, stick with it, and overclock as high as you can with as little voltage as possible.


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## BambOOs (May 12, 2016)

Ok finally:

1. Why VID increases with increase of multiplier?
2. Should I just ignore VID values after OC and focus on Vcore in CPU-Z/BIOS?

I want to thank you all so much. I really appreciate your help.


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## Mussels (May 12, 2016)

1. Past stock clock (and turbo) speeds, it shouldnt. Its part of a power saving feature that drops voltages + multiplier at idle - not raising them up for OCing.
2. Yes.


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## BambOOs (May 12, 2016)

According to this guide by Asus (but it looks similar on other boards):

http://rog.asus.com/51092012/overclocking/overclocking-using-offset-mode-for-cpu-core-voltage/

If we increase multiplier, then mobo will increase voltage by itself.

" the CPU voltage will be offset from stock voltage automatically – as you increase operating freqeuncy, the default voltage
will automatically increase. In order to find out what the new load voltage is, we can boot Windows and run a stress test, while keeping ROG CPU-Z open to get a rough
idea of how much voltage the processor is seeing under load"

So it looks like I will have to use negative offset value  

I'm going to determine lowest stable voltage @ 4.5 GHz in Fixed Mode at first.


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## Flow (May 12, 2016)

Yes, that is correct.
I had 2 asus boards for my 2600k, blew the first one in a bios update, the second one is a different type but runs and acts the same.
Don't know about LLC though on your board, on asus boards they are fine at default settings, on other brands it could be you need to adjust it.

Now, I get a core voltage reading in cpuz, and a vid reading in realtemp.
I use and always have used the cpuz reading. The vid reading in realtemp shows 1.366v when stressing, while cpuz shows me 1.295v in prime small fft's and 1.320 in blend or gaming.
So disregard the whole vid thing. Cpuz is wat works and always have worked, as a short way if not able to meassure real voltage.

You can start with 1.300v for 4,5Ghz. Keep in mind though, some 2500k's need 1.350v
The most work will be in getting it with offset.
Goodluck.


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## Mussels (May 13, 2016)

if you use a static voltage instead of auto, it shouldnt increase and you can ignore the offset. a negative offset will make your system potentially unstable at idle clocks.


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## BambOOs (May 13, 2016)

SVID = static voltage ID = manual/fixed mode
DVID = dynamic voltage ID = dynamic voltage/offset mode

Right?


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## Flow (May 13, 2016)

?

Just set your vcore manual.
And set your ram at the proper frequency, timings plus voltage.
The rest on auto should do the trick.
You need to adjust LLC and PLL overvoltage for higher clocks, like 4,8Ghz and higher.

If you want to overclock a sandy, you need to start at the beginning, and that's with most settings at auto.
So it's not important to know what you are asking.

So with everything at auto you start with setting ram manually, the frequency, the voltage and the first four timings, the other timings left as they are already set by your bios.

Then you adjust the multiplier to 45 for all cores.

Then you set your vcore at 1.300v.

Safe , reboot and test with prime95, cpuz and realtemp.
Your temps should ideally be under 75°C when running small fft's in prime.
Watch cpuz for your voltage, with a proper psu and motherboard it should show 1.300v if set in bios.
After 1 hour running, it's pretty stable although many will say you need to run it much longer.
Then you can run blend, also for an hour.
Both tests will fail sooner or later if not stable.

Finally, if you think you are there, let it run for 3 or more hours, could be it crashes when around 3 hours running. (had this myself one time).

Now when you want to go higher, then your questions become more important. But in general sandy's will run 4,5Ghz easy with only multiplier and correct voltage.

ps. offset is used to let the cpu throttle down to 1600Mhz when idle or doing simple tasks in desktop mode.
I use it for over 5 years now, but it's debatable if it's better, or to just set a static vcore, something I ran my E8400 with for some 4 years, without any issue.
Your cpu wont run much hotter when idle at a fixed vcore.
Anyway, it's always good to have choices and options.
Goodluck.

ps2.






vid was lower on my p8p67 board, but still, on this p8z board it's already running solid for over 3 years and 5 years altogheter now.
Don't worry about vid.
Also, it runs a bit cooler on windows 10. Same software as shown.

Needed close to 1.400v for 4,8Ghz. And temps where nearing 90°C. Saw this already with the stock cooler reaching 95°C and throttling. So I don't have a 5Ghz chip, although it could reach it with proper settings and cooling. But it would degrade pretty fast also.

Hmm, it's with HT on. HT off would run cooler, allowing higher overclocks. But I prefer HT on, because that's why I got it in the first place.


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