# Need simple networking help please



## Black Panther (Feb 26, 2012)

When the router/switch at bottom right was connected to 'old modem' (green) pc1, pc2 and pc3 had good wired internet access.

Now the 'old modem' has been replaced by the Belkin (top left) which is a modem and router in one. 

It's connected, wired, to the router/switch which in turn is connected, wired, to pc1, pc2 and pc3.

Thing is that now the Belkin is supplying internet to the 2 laptops upstairs (whether wired or through wifi) but pc1, pc2 and pc3 remain offline notwithstanding being connected through wire and not wireless.

We tried changing the IP to remove any possible conflict but so far nothing has worked.

What do you think is the issue here?

Thanks.







Edit: Note laptop 1 and laptop 2 used to get good wifi connection with 'old modem' connected to router/switch before belkin was bought, too...


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## nick_1992 (Feb 26, 2012)

Sounds like your running on 2 subnets (or trying to) try maybe setting up the old router as a access point and not use the WAN port. I had to do with dlink equipment so i don't know you your equipment works exactly.


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## Black Panther (Feb 26, 2012)

nick_1992 said:


> Sounds like your running on 2 subnets (or trying to) try maybe setting up the old router as a access point and not use the WAN port. I had to do with dlink equipment so i don't know you your equipment works exactly.



We're not using the WAN port. I'm not currently in the same physical location to check everything out, but dad assured me that he connected the 'router/switch' to the 'belkin' just as if it was another pc. So I guess it's not through the WAN port but through one of the others.


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## Kreij (Feb 26, 2012)

Make sure that the default gateways for the PCs are the IP address of the new modem.
If you are using DHCP for everything you may have to refresh the "lease" so they re-establish the correct parameters that the modem is dishing out.


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## _JP_ (Feb 26, 2012)

BP, is the cable that is connecting the Belkin to the Router/Wired Switch a crossover?


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## nick_1992 (Feb 26, 2012)

This is for dlink only but it still should apply.
http://hciguy.wordpress.com/2010/07...nt-repeater-to-extend-your-wireless-coverage/


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## Black Panther (Feb 26, 2012)

_JP_ said:


> BP, is the cable that is connecting the Belkin to the Router/Wired Switch a crossover?



No, just regular, not crossover. It's very long though, say over 30 meters (90 feet). Which is the main reason for the wired connection over wireless for pc1, pc2 and pc3...


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## Rhyseh (Feb 27, 2012)

A few things:

When you are interconnecting devices such as switches or routers they connect by what is known as a trunking mode rather than the standard client access mode. Now due to the fact that these trunked devices send and receive information on the same pins a standard straight through cable may not work (many devices are intelligent enough to combat this but I digress). To combat this you should use a crossover cable to interconnect devices, if you don't want to re-run the cable you can easily create a crossover adapter if you have 2 RJ45 jacks.

Additionally ensure that your other current switch connecting pc1, 2 and 3 is not acting as a DHCP server. If your device has this functionality ensure that it is configured as a DHCP relay from the Belkin device.

Ensure that your switch/wireless access point has an IP address on the same subnet as the Belkin router.

Additionally if you still have the old modem/router connected to the switch make sure that the DHCP functionality is disabled.

If none of these work then start troubleshooting the setup using the OSI model:

http://bfindarto.wordpress.com/2008/03/12/use-osi-model-to-troubleshoot-networks-cool/


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## _JP_ (Feb 28, 2012)

Black Panther said:


> We're not using the WAN port. I'm not currently in the same physical location to check everything out, but dad assured me that he connected the 'router/switch' to the 'belkin' just as if it was another pc. So I guess it's not through the WAN port but through one of the others.





Black Panther said:


> No, just regular, not crossover. It's very long though, say over 30 meters (90 feet). Which is the main reason for the wired connection over wireless for pc1, pc2 and pc3...


So, your the Belkin is connected to the other Router/Switch by the Switch ports. If that's so, to connect two Switches together, you need to use a crossover cable, otherwise the connection will not be possible.


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## Black Panther (Feb 28, 2012)

_JP_ said:


> So, your the Belkin is connected to the other Router/Switch by the Switch ports. If that's so, to connect two Switches together, you need to use a crossover cable, otherwise the connection will not be possible.




Are you guys sure that the cable needs to be a crossover one?

We eliminated the "old router" (the one which was connected to 'old modem'), and instead of it put a simple Edimax ES3208P Switch. It's only a switch, without router.

Now if we connect a pc wired directly from the Belkin router there is an internet connection.

However, if we connect the Belkin to the Edimax switch, and then Edimax switch to the same pc there is no connection.








All the cables above are not crossover.


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## _JP_ (Feb 28, 2012)

I know it will be a pain in the neck because, as you said BP, the cable is 30m long. But, to make two switches communicate (in fact, any two equal network devices), it needs to be done using a crossover cable.
What you described is the exact behavior of what happens when you connect two switches using a regular ethernet cable (Direct cable, or whatever the stores call it).


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## Completely Bonkers (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm going for faulty cable. One or more of your cables is bad/damaged. Some devices "can cope" and others can't. It might be intermittent depending on how the wire was just flexed. Are all these cables strictly CAT5e or better? Perhaps you have a mix of old and new cables, or home connected plugs not factory connected ones. Could one or more wires within the cable be damaed or not connected properly, perhaps hanging high? Fault might be "more present" depending on whether the RJ45 socket is earthed or not.

>> New cables

It's not "crossover" issue. The ES3208P is autosensing PnP crossover or straight. So either the 3208P is dead, or your cables are at fault.


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## Black Panther (Feb 28, 2012)

Completely Bonkers said:


> It's not "crossover" issue. The ES3208P is autosensing PnP crossover or straight. So either the 3208P is dead, or your cables are at fault.



Well... both cables work when tested separately.

The very long cable works when connected between Belkin and pc (without switch).

The short (5 ft) cable works when connected between Belkin and pc as well.

It's only when there's the Edimax switch in the middle that something's going wrong.. Or when there was the other router/switch..
The Edimax is new, we put it there to simplify things instead of using another router...


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 28, 2012)

I didnt read through the whole thread but here is a post from a similar thread and this would give you an idea of a typical structured private network




brandonwh64 said:


> Most ISP's only give you one IP reservation at a time. This means you would need the router right behind the modem so it can handle the IP and DHCP pool for other devices on the network.
> 
> Here is my opinion on what you should do with your private network. This would clean it up alot and you would have more control.


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## Black Panther (Feb 28, 2012)

So, no need for a crossover cable?


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 28, 2012)

Black Panther said:


> So, no need for a crossover cable?



You should not need a cross over cable if you are connecting a router to a unmanaged switch. On your wireless router, Connect the modem in the WAN/Internet port and the switch into port 1. This will give all other ports on the switch direct connection to the router's DHCP pool.


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## Completely Bonkers (Feb 28, 2012)

In your first picture, what _exactly _is the blue box called router/wired switch?


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 28, 2012)

Completely Bonkers said:


> In your first picture, what _exactly _is the blue box called router/wired switch?



I was wondering that as well. It also looks like you have two router/switch icons in your drawing. Do you have two routers or two switches?

Also can we get model numbers of these two devices


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## Kreij (Feb 28, 2012)

Brandon is right, you should not need a x-over cable as switches have auto-detected that for years. (I don't use them anywhere on my work network and can connect the switches using any cat5 port)

It sounds like DHCP shennanigans. I would make sure only one device is set up to dish out IP addresses and that all the other devices are set up to be a DHCP client.
Easiest way to tell is to run "ipconfig /all" on the computers and see if they are in the same sub-net and using the correct gateway.
Remember that if a computer is set to use DHCP and is turned on before the device that issues the IP addresses and gateway, Windows will assign a random IP address. Turning on the DHCP server will not automatically update the computer.


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## Black Panther (Feb 28, 2012)

The blue box called Belkin modem/router or Belkin router is a Belkin N+ Wireless ADSL Modem Router Model F5D8635UK4A. Here's a review of it.






It's the blue box with the two antennas, and it's there in both my OP post diagram and in the other diagram a couple of posts later.

In the OP apart from this Belkin I was using another router as a switch (I think it was a Conceptronic?). But then we eliminated this other router which we were using as a switch and instead used an Edimax ES3208P (which is only a switch and not a router).






We did it to simplify things. And we also connected only one pc to it, to get internet connection to it first... then we'll see for the other 3 pc's...


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## Munki (Feb 28, 2012)

You could just set all IP addresses static to check for DCHP problems.


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## Black Panther (Feb 28, 2012)

Kreij said:


> Brandon is right, you should not need a x-over cable as switches have auto-detected that for years. (I don't use them anywhere on my work network and can connect the switches using any cat5 port)
> 
> It sounds like DHCP shennanigans. I would make sure only one device is set up to dish out IP addresses and that all the other devices are set up to be a DHCP client.
> Easiest way to tell is to run "ipconfig /all" on the computers and see if they are in the same sub-net and using the correct gateway.
> Remember that if a computer is set to use DHCP and is turned on before the device that issues the IP addresses and gateway, Windows will assign a random IP address. Turning on the DHCP server will not automatically update the computer.



Kreij, I think my dad turned off or disabled DHCP. That's wrong?

____________________

Everything works fine as long as we use the cable direct from the Belkin to the pc at the workplace. The issue only arises once we put the switch in between.
But a switch is indispensible since we need to connect 3 other pc's to share the same office network (and internet connection).

If we didn't need more than one pc I'd have put the cable direct to the one pc, without a switch, and there'd be no issues.


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## Kreij (Feb 28, 2012)

Not if he has all of the machines using static IPs and gateway addresses.
If the DHCP server is disabled for the wired network and the PCs are still trying to use it, they will get no information and just use some random values.

You said that the PCs can't see the internet when the switch is inline ... can the PCs see the router when the switch is part of the network? (ping, tracert)

It's odd as an unmanaged switch should not cause problems unless it is bad (bad port(s) or it's toast) or the cabling is bad.


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## Black Panther (Feb 28, 2012)

Kreij said:


> You said that the PCs can't see the internet when the switch is inline ... can the PCs see the router when the switch is part of the network? (ping, tracert)
> 
> It's odd as an unmanaged switch should not cause problems unless it is bad (bad port(s) or it's toast) or the cabling is bad.



He didn't try ping or tracert _(hey dad if you're reading this go Start, type cmd, click enter, then in the black box type ping OR tracert followed by the IP address of the Belkin and see what you get...)_ but when we were using the Conceptronic router (instead of Edimax switch) the connection was without internet but it identified the network.

Now using the Edimax switch on the "Network and Sharing Center" in the CP it shows up as an "unidentified public network". Something's not right...


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 28, 2012)

If you dad had turned off DHCP then I would check to see if you have statically set each machines IP address, subnet mask, and default gateway.

These would be like

PC1
IP: 192.168.1.100
SM: 255.255.255.0
DG: 192.168.1.1

PC2
IP: 192.168.1.101
SM: 255.255.255.0
DG: 192.168.1.1

PC3
IP: 192.168.1.102
SM: 255.255.255.0
DG: 192.168.1.1

EXC......


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## Black Panther (Feb 28, 2012)

brandonwh64 said:


> If you dad had turned off DHCP ......



He said he did but I suspect he left out his laptop, my mom's laptop and my brother's pc which connect wireless... 

He said he took note of the IP addresses allocated beforehand. I'll be checking that out later tomorrow..


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## Kreij (Feb 28, 2012)

This is really hard to T/S without seeing the details of the setup. lol
Here's what I would do ...
Turn everything off.
Turn on the Belkin (let it initialize).
Turn on the switch.
Turn on one computer that is plugged into the switch and bring it up into Windows.
Do a "ipconfig /all" on that computer to see what it thinks its IP address and gateway are.


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## brandonwh64 (Feb 28, 2012)

Kreij said:


> This is really hard to T/S without seeing the details of the setup. lol
> Here's what I would do ...
> Turn everything off.
> Turn on the Belkin (let it initialize).
> ...



I would do this but as long as you have no settings you want saved, I would factory reset the belkin so you will have DHCP enabled again and then test each machine to see if it acquires an IP address.


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## Black Panther (Mar 1, 2012)

Well, we replaced the Edimax switch with the conceptronic router again (working as a switch) and the belkin router/modem still upstairs.

This time the connection works, the 3 wired pc's see each other and can access the main one which contains the accounts program we use for work. Both wired printers work fine too, from any pc. (whew!)

According to the Network and Sharing Center in Control Panel, there is internet on all 3 wired pc's. However, I'll get a page load like 10% of it and get stuck like that. I tried to send 2 emails they remained in my outbox. I tried to load speedtest.net and the page wouldn't even load from any of the 3 wired pc's.

I loaded speedtest from a laptop (connecting to Belkin through wifi) and got a 5Mbps download. The connection is supposed to be 8Mbps...


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## brandonwh64 (Mar 1, 2012)

Black Panther said:


> Well, we replaced the Edimax switch with the conceptronic router again (working as a switch) and the belkin router/modem still upstairs.
> 
> This time the connection works, the 3 wired pc's see each other and can access the main one which contains the accounts program we use for work. Both wired printers work fine too, from any pc. (whew!)
> 
> ...



two routers on one network will not work properly if not setup right. Both are useing there own DHCP pool and could have different octants. I will say though, if it works to your desire then keep it rocking but you may experience DNS issues in the future. If you can try to order a name brand unmananged switch like linksys/D-Link to replace the secondary router.


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## Black Panther (Mar 4, 2012)

Completely Bonkers said:


> I'm going for faulty cable. One or more of your cables is bad/damaged. Some devices "can cope" and others can't.



Pretty sure it's a cable fault now.

Using Belkin + Edimax switch we get nothing. We also tried other switches.
Using Belkin + Conceptronic (router) as a switch we get internet.

So we kept using the latter... but I noticed my emails weren't getting sent.

So I tried speedtest, download speed was normal but upload speed gave an error and was zero.

It's likely the guy who custom-made the long cable for us didn't do it properly when he used the crimping tool...

It's funny how with one device we get downloads and with another we get nothing.

I thought a cable would either work or not work, not do a half-job!


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