# Virtualization and E5200



## r9 (Aug 19, 2009)

I have E5200 and does not support Intel® Virtualization Technology. I`v had installed vmware under Ubuntu and installed Vista as virtual server. But the lag was terrible. I would guess that is because E5200 is lacking those instructions. And I had trouble finding widows and linux version that would install on VMWARE. I was getting messages that my CPU is not 64 bit. Is this because of my CPU ?


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## LittleLizard (Aug 19, 2009)

try virtualbox (i think thats how its called), is a good alternative software and may suit your needs


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## Boyfriend (Aug 19, 2009)

E5200 don't have Intel VT. Still u can try Virtual PC 2007 SP1 (32, 64-Bit)or Virtual Box (cross platform, 32,64-Bit supported).
Increase RAM for virtual OS. That usually reduces the lag.


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## r9 (Aug 19, 2009)

My host OS was 64bit and the guest was 32bit is this OK ?
Also I read some where that in order to install 64bit guest than CPU must support Virtualization is this true ?


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## newtekie1 (Aug 19, 2009)

I don't know how to install a 64-bit guest OS.  My CPU supports VT, and it is enabled and working, buy I get the same message about the CPU not supporting 64-bit when I try to install a 64-bit Guest OS.


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## r9 (Aug 19, 2009)

Boyfriend said:


> E5200 don't have Intel VT. Still u can try Virtual PC 2007 SP1 (32, 64-Bit)or Virtual Box (cross platform, 32,64-Bit supported).
> Increase RAM for virtual OS. That usually reduces the lag.



I was giving 512 of ram. And it was saying that is using some 20-30 MHz CPU I could not change that.


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## Boyfriend (Aug 19, 2009)

r9 said:


> My host OS was 64bit and the guest was 32bit is this OK ?
> Also I read some where that in order to install 64bit guest than CPU must support Virtualization is this true ?



If the host OS is 64Bit, you can either install 32Bit, or 64Bit guest OS

For 64Bit guest, there is no mandatory virtulization support.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 19, 2009)

it is your cpu. for one, it is slow and will have trouble running vista virtually. secondly, it doesnt have any of the instruction sets on it that make virtualization a smooth experience. so instead of programs like vmware directly using your hardware it uses software to emulate everything. obviously much slower.


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## Boyfriend (Aug 19, 2009)

newtekie1 said:


> I don't know how to install a 64-bit guest OS.  My CPU supports VT, and it is enabled and working, buy(t) I get the same message about the CPU not supporting 64-bit when I try to install a 64-bit Guest OS.



To install 64Bit guest OS, your host must also be 64Bit, and 64Bit host OS can be installed only on 64Bit capable Processor+Mobo+BIOS, which are usually 64Bit by default now-a-days.


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## r9 (Aug 19, 2009)

Boyfriend said:


> If the host OS is 64Bit, you can either install 32Bit, or 64Bit guest OS
> 
> For 64Bit guest, there is no mandatory virtulization support.



Are you saying that I`m would easy install 64bit guest instead of 32bit guest on 64 guest ?
That does make sense. What doesn`t is that I failed installing 64 bit guest and managed to install 32 guest. And as I said my CPU does not have VT support.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 19, 2009)

Boyfriend said:


> To install 64Bit guest OS, your host must also be 64Bit, and 64Bit host OS can be installed only on 64Bit capable Processor+Mobo+BIOS, which are usually 64Bit by default now-a-days.



it all depends on the instruction sets on the cpu. generally the vm software you are using will tell you which it needs to run a 64bit guest.


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## Boyfriend (Aug 19, 2009)

r9 said:


> I was giving 512 of ram. And it was saying that is using some 20-30 MHz CPU I could not change that.



Terrible!!! u give vista only 512MB RAM. At least specify 1GB (graphic + vista crapware(s)) to run it better. Vista (virtually any OS) can perform good without virtulization, because softwares emulate those necessary functions without much hassle. I have installed Windows 7 32 Bit guest OS under my 64 Bit Host Windows 7 for testing purpose.


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## r9 (Aug 19, 2009)

Easy Rhino said:


> it is your cpu. for one, it is slow and will have trouble running vista virtually. secondly, it doesnt have any of the instruction sets on it that make virtualization a smooth experience. so instead of programs like vmware directly using your hardware it uses software to emulate everything. obviously much slower.



I have also read some where that many of virtualizations programs recommend disabling this options. I think it was for AMD cpus that enabled Virtualization of the CPU could hurt the performance. I assume that this is because of lack of support by the software.


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## r9 (Aug 19, 2009)

Boyfriend said:


> Terrible!!! u give vista only 512MB RAM. At least specify 1GB (graphic + vista crapware(s)) to run it better. Vista (virtually any OS) can perform good without virtulization, because softwares emulate those necessary functions without much hassle. I have installed Windows 7 32 Bit guest OS under my 64 Bit Host Windows 7 for testing purpose.



I have also installed Ubuntu as guest and that was lacking greatly. 
I`m little confused about this Virtualization support. Many people say that is overrated.

If the lacking is because of the VT than what would be the cheapest Intel CPU that support this and why I could not install 64 guest under 64 host under VMWARE saying that I don`t have 64bit CPU ?


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## Boyfriend (Aug 19, 2009)

Easy Rhino said:


> it all depends on the instruction sets on the cpu. generally the vm software you are using will tell you which it needs to run a 64bit guest.



Modern CPUs have MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, (SSSE3 by intel processors only), SSE4 (4.1,4.2) instructions sets. Virtulization software uses instructions up to SSE3 and can perform almost comparable with hardware VT. u will miss hardware VT only, when u run more than 1 guest OSes simultaneously, which normal home users don't do.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 19, 2009)

r9 said:


> I have also installed Ubuntu as guest and that was lacking greatly.
> I`m little confused about this Virtualization support. Many people say that is overrated.
> 
> If the lacking is because of the VT than what would be the cheapest Intel CPU that support this and why I could not install 64 guest under 64 host under VMWARE saying that I don`t have 64bit CPU ?



VT is not overrated. it lets the guest OS directly access your host CPU without using software. you can imagine this vastly increases performance.


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## Boyfriend (Aug 19, 2009)

Easy Rhino said:


> VT is not overrated. it lets the guest OS directly access your host CPU without using software. you can imagine this vastly increases performance.



Actually using hardware VT, ur guest OS can access ur computer resources directly without much depending on VT software and host OS. This increases speed, but negligibly. I will not recommend to upgrade ur processor. Just overclock it and increase ur host+guest RAM to get comparable speed.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 19, 2009)

Boyfriend said:


> Actually using hardware VT, ur guest OS can access ur computer resources directly without much depending on VT software and host OS. This increases speed, but negligibly. I will not recommend to upgrade ur processor. Just overclock it and increase ur host+guest RAM to get comparable speed.



sure if you only want to run one guest OS and you dont mind your guest OS running sluggish. hardware virtualization IS faster especially when running heavy software applications virtualized. we are also talking about using a linux OS to host a windows OS which is a lot slower than using a linux OS to host another linux OS.


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## Boyfriend (Aug 19, 2009)

r9 said:


> Are you saying that I`m would easy install 64bit guest instead of 32bit guest on 64 guest ?
> That does make sense. What doesn`t is that I failed installing 64 bit guest and managed to install 32 guest. And as I said my CPU does not have VT support.



To install 64Bit host/guest, hardware VT is not mandatory. Only your processor, mobo, and bios should support it.
Have u ever consider that what is data width of ur RAM, Graphic card?? RAM should have 64Bit data width and graphic card(s) usually have 64, 128, 256, 384, 512 data width (multiple of 64). So all modern hardware is 64bit by design and should do well with 64bit host.


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## r9 (Aug 19, 2009)

Boyfriend said:


> Actually using hardware VT, ur guest OS can access ur computer resources directly without much depending on VT software and host OS. This increases speed, but negligibly. I will not recommend to upgrade ur processor. Just overclock it and increase ur host+guest RAM to get comparable speed.



The thing is that I`m totally satisfied from the speed of my PC I`m running win7 x64 E5200@4.2GHz mem 933@ 4 4 4. I`m using multiple programs running while game minimized and I don`t have any slowdowns. But my Virtual machines are slow. Any explanation I could find it is the lacking of VT. And as you said VT is speeding vurtual machines but not by much.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 19, 2009)

Boyfriend said:


> To install 64Bit host/guest, hardware VT is not mandatory. Only your processor, mobo, and bios should support it.
> Have u ever consider that what is data width of ur RAM, Graphic card?? RAM should have 64Bit data width and graphic card(s) usually have 64, 128, 256, 384, 512 data width (multiple of 64). So all modern hardware is 64bit by design and should do well with 64bit host.



as far as i know that is incorrect. you cannot run a 64bit guest OS without having 64bit hardware on the host machine AND the proper hardware VT on the host machine. you can only emulate 32bit operating systems if you do not have hardware VT.


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## r9 (Aug 19, 2009)

Boyfriend said:


> To install 64Bit host/guest, hardware VT is not mandatory. Only your processor, mobo, and bios should support it.
> Have u ever consider that what is data width of ur RAM, Graphic card?? RAM should have 64Bit data width and graphic card(s) usually have 64, 128, 256, 384, 512 data width (multiple of 64). So all modern hardware is 64bit by design and should do well with 64bit host.



I know that. I read somewhere that VT is needed in situation when we have 32bit host and want to install 64bit guest. Is this true ?


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## Boyfriend (Aug 19, 2009)

Easy Rhino said:


> sure if you only want to run one guest OS and you dont mind your guest OS running sluggish. hardware virtualization IS faster especially when running heavy software applications virtualized. we are also talking about using a linux OS to host a windows OS which is a lot slower than using a linux OS to host another linux OS.



I don't deny the fact that hardware VT is beneficial. I want to clear that guest OS performance depends on software used for VT. Due to different kernal(s) and different code bases of Linux, how u can expect virtulization software will perform faster even with hardware VT, as nothing is well optimized for Linux, although most of time, things work stable. For better performance he will need Microsoft OS as host and then he can benefit well from hardware VT, else it is hit and try game.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 19, 2009)

r9 said:


> I know that. I read somewhere that VT is needed in situation when we have 32bit host and want to install 64bit guest. Is this true ?



i dont believe so. there is no reason to run a 64bit guest on a 32bit host.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 19, 2009)

Boyfriend said:


> I don't deny the fact that hardware VT is beneficial. I want to clear that guest OS performance depends on software used for VT. Due to different kernal(s) and different code bases of Linux, how u can expect virtulization software will perform faster even with hardware VT, as nothing is well optimized for Linux, although most of time, things work stable. For better performance he will need Microsoft OS as host and then he can benefit well from hardware VT, else it is hit and try game.



perhaps. it is all complicated and a bit convoluted. as you said, it all depends on the host OS, the type of hardware being used and the hypervisor being used.  i dont know if the OP specified this information exactly.


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## Boyfriend (Aug 19, 2009)

r9 said:


> I know that. I read somewhere that VT is needed in situation when we have 32bit host and want to install 64bit guest. Is this true ?



No one can't install 64bit guest under 32bit host. It is technically impossible. How guest can execute it's 64bit instruction while processor is in x86 instruction set mode. While on 64bit host it is possible and in fact fast enough to execute x64+x86 instruction(s) simultaneously.

There is another technical problem for Core2 and its derivatives (dual core series) series under 64Bit OS, which is that it don't have support for micro-ops and macro-ops support for 64Bit instruction sets. So u will naturally see slightly increased processor usage under 64 Bit host OS. Core i7 does have micro + macro-ops support for 64bit as well as better VT instructions set, transparent to the software working on that processor. Core i7 is really Intel (R) milestone as Windows 7 is for Microsoft(R)

OP should specify detailed software configuration (one can check his system specs for hardware information): Linux version used, updates, software(s) version and settings etc...


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## r9 (Aug 19, 2009)

I don`t intend to run 64bit guest on 32bit I find that when I was searching for benefits from having VT capable CPU. 
@Boyfriend I`v have the same performance at Host:Vista x64 and Ubuntu Guest.
In both situations I have 64bit host and 32bit guest could this be the source of slowdown ?
And once again could I install 64bit guest on 64bit host w/o VT ?


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## suraswami (Aug 19, 2009)

r9 said:


> I have E5200 and does not support Intel® Virtualization Technology. I`v had installed vmware under Ubuntu and installed Vista as virtual server. But the lag was terrible. I would guess that is because E5200 is lacking those instructions. And I had trouble finding widows and linux version that would install on VMWARE. I was getting messages that my CPU is not 64 bit. Is this because of my CPU ?



Don't know if someone already mentioned this, did u install the vm tools after u install the OS?  That is very much necessary to have a good smooth video display and mouse movement.  Also please allocate min 1gb ram for Vista.  

Which version of VMWare are you using?  I think vmware only gives max 16mb of ram to the vga and thats the reason vista struggles.  

I run multiple vms on my server.  All my W2K3 server OS VMs are perfect, but I installed Home Server last night and it lags.  But if I remote into this machine from another machine it is smooth.  So I disabled all the extra fancy features and made it look like W2K3 and its much better.

I am not sure if this is resolved in vm 2.01, I am assuming you are talking about vm ware server.

Also Virtualbox is good if you don't need any auto start features.  In Virtualbox u can control the vga ram.

hope it helps.


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## r9 (Aug 19, 2009)

So is it possible to install 64bit guest on 64bit host w/o VT ? And this is yes why I get the message that my cpu it is not 64bit ? 
I have tried 
Host Ubuntu x64 Guest Vista 32bit and 
Host Vista X64 and Ubuntu 32bit Is it possible the slowdown is result of Host64 bit vs Guest 32bit ?


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## suraswami (Aug 19, 2009)

r9 said:


> So is it possible to install 64bit guest on 64bit host w/o VT ? And this is yes why I get the message that my cpu it is not 64bit ?
> I have tried
> Host Ubuntu x64 Guest Vista 32bit and
> Host Vista X64 and Ubuntu 32bit Is it possible the slowdown is result of Host64 bit vs Guest 32bit ?



So is it possible to install 64bit guest on 64bit host w/o VT  - yes

slowdown is because of vm tools.


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## Boyfriend (Aug 19, 2009)

suraswami has pointed our really important thing. Install VM Tools/Addons to have smooth mouse movements + better graphics performance. Disable those fancy things of guest OS and allocate more RAM. Try to use Windows as host OS and then tell us "Does this help u to sort out???"


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## r9 (Aug 19, 2009)

Boyfriend said:


> suraswami has pointed our really important thing. Install VM Tools/Addons to have smooth mouse movements + better graphics performance. Disable those fancy things of guest OS and allocate more RAM. Try to use Windows as host OS and then tell us "Does this help u to sort out???"



Thanks for the help you saved me time and making wrong conclusions from the net. And I`m going to install CentOS 32bit as host and guests . At the moment I have Win7 and VMWARE as guest. I`m going to install VM tools and add more RAM. I will post when I`m done. Thanks again.


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## Easy Rhino (Aug 19, 2009)

suraswami said:


> So is it possible to install 64bit guest on 64bit host w/o VT  - yes



i really dont think this is possible. could you point me to information saying it is? not baiting an argument, i am just curious because when i was using an 64bit cpu without VT i was unable to run a 64bit guest.


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## r9 (Aug 19, 2009)

I just installed the vm-tools and the the vm is running much faster. Another problem if I time slowly typing is OK but if I type faster I get a lot repetitions of the character like I`m holding each character couple seconds. That is weird.


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## suraswami (Aug 19, 2009)

Easy Rhino said:


> i really dont think this is possible. could you point me to information saying it is? not baiting an argument, i am just curious because when i was using an 64bit cpu without VT i was unable to run a 64bit guest.



I remember reading it somewhere, but I might be wrong, let me find it.


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