# NVIDIA Responds to Radeon HD 4830 Launch, Claims GeForce 9800 GT is Better



## btarunr (Oct 26, 2008)

NVIDIA has issued a slide-show, a consolidated presentation taking into account, the findings of some review sources. In short, NVIDIA claims that the GeForce 9800 GT is not only faster than Radeon HD 4830, but also that its value-added features such as the CUDA HPC foundation and PhysX acceleration amount to a superior product all in all. Donanim Haber got their hands on this slide-show before anyone could, so here goes: GeForce 9800 GT vs. Radeon HD 4830 - a presentation by NVIDIA.








 

 

 

 

 

 



The "AMD Radeon HD 4830" they highlighted in those TechPowerUp charts is the sample that was found to have 560 stream processors instead of the 640 SPs according to AMD's specifications. Use the green bar (PowerColor HD 4830) for reference if need be.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## Wile E (Oct 26, 2008)

I hate propaganda and negative marketing. It's just annoying, and makes me lose respect for the purveyor of such trash.


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## btarunr (Oct 26, 2008)

Just as we published the AMD HD 4830 review, we made sure people were aware it had that shader-deficiency issue, by means of an article, news and pointers in the review itself. I'm surprised NVIDIA actually used the AMD card's graphs for its presentation.


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## tkpenalty (Oct 26, 2008)

Such a presentation should be prevented from release as its clearly libel considering how they are claiming that the 4830 (640SP, consumer model) is inferior to the 9800GT using TPU's graphs without asking.

Nvidia is getting desperate.


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## aj28 (Oct 26, 2008)

Talk about shady... And I love how they use five different TechPU graphs while entirely neglecting the overall performance charts where the 4830 leads in _every single one_ by a margin anywhere from 1-4%. Now admittedly we're still talking within a reasonable margin of error here, but seriously nVidia?


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## tkpenalty (Oct 26, 2008)

W1zz needs to stop Nvidia from publishing this propaganda, with legal action.


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## Hayder_Master (Oct 26, 2008)

i think there is no chance to troll , look 800gt better , but what about graphic quality i think it is not same specially with new nvidia driver i feel they decrease the quality to increase performance


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## OnBoard (Oct 26, 2008)

Talk about fail, they even used 8800GT in that chart =) Yeah we all know it's the same, but they are talking about 9800GT still


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## Widjaja (Oct 26, 2008)

Give it up nVidia, it's AMD/ATi's turn this time round.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 26, 2008)

i really hope TPU takes legal action against NV, they are just trying to stir up the nest because they know their MGPU field is plagued by problems, and who knows how far that goes into the desktop parts.


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## $ReaPeR$ (Oct 26, 2008)

i hate it when companies use propaganda to sell their products.. i know that creating a new and better product is harder but IMO do that or shut up!and that goes for all companies.. they should understand that we canot be fooled by such means.:shadedshu

P.S. Wizz that article was very well written. as always ..


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## HaZe303 (Oct 26, 2008)

This is just disgusting of NV to use TPU´s picture´s in their propaganda, I too hope someone in TPU crew takes legal action against Nvidia! This just made me loose respect for the green team, if I had any before its all gone now.


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## ShadowFold (Oct 26, 2008)

Nvidia lost me at the thousands of rebadges..


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## wiak (Oct 26, 2008)

looks like nvidia just shoot iself in teh foot
why? look at the top of the graphs
4850/4870 series looks great


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## Hayder_Master (Oct 26, 2008)

what are nvidia doing , they trying to beat 4830 that is beginners fight , better try with x2


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## Dark_Webster (Oct 26, 2008)

Perhaps they are scared and they want to advertise their products better against AMD/ATI.

Edit: [sarcasm]Wow, 9800GT gains up to 2FPS in games without Phsyx compared to HD4830?? That is some serious power![/sarcasm]


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## wahdangun (Oct 26, 2008)

yet another desperate attemp from nvidia:shadedshu,

why they not respond with stop producing 8800gt(9800gt) and make scalled down GT200 core,
just like amd do with their hd 4000 series.


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## lepra24 (Oct 26, 2008)

Nvidia why so serious?? 
AMD


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## W1zzard (Oct 26, 2008)

bwahahahah, nvidia epic fail. they marked the benchmarks that are from the 560 sp card. 

other than that, anyone is free to quote our data as long as sources are given and the data is not modified.


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## lemonadesoda (Oct 26, 2008)

EPIC FAIL.

Those guys that put this silly presentation together should be fired:

1./ For not doing THEIR homework, only C+P other peeps material
2./ For getting it wrong!
3./ Wasting corporate time (thier salaries etc.)
4./ For getting very -ve press now on the TPU site  hehe ... and soon elsewhere and everywhere
5./ For brand damage

Good bye, nVidia employee dunces. Hope you can get a new job soon... stacking shelves. LOL


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## Altered (Oct 26, 2008)

I am not a "fan" of either brand I prefer the best performance per $.  I have always liked both brands as that is what keeps pushing the technology having the competition to be the best. We see how the prices go when one company rules the market. But that is a sad thing to do from the Nvidia camp.


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## MopeyMartian (Oct 26, 2008)

So glad I decided to go with the Sapphire 4850.  

W1zz, this is why putting an OCed graph would be good too.  You said the 4830 was getting up to the 4870 in performance.  Some proof of that, even without all the shaders, would have given Nvida a harder time skewing your results.

On the other hand, you must be kinda honored to know that someone in Nvida's sales force is reading your work.


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## oli_ramsay (Oct 26, 2008)

wow, nvidia must be getting really desperate.  How pathetic of them. :shadedshu


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## zaqwsx (Oct 26, 2008)

I lost respect for nvidia a while back when they did the same thing.


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## jbunch07 (Oct 26, 2008)

Wow this just knocked Nvidia down another few notches in my book, FAIL! just FAIL!


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## DrPepper (Oct 26, 2008)

$ReaPeR$ said:


> i hate it when companies use propaganda to sell their products.. i know that creating a new and better product is harder but IMO do that or shut up!and that goes for all companies.. they should understand that we canot be fooled by such means.:shadedshu



Erm I think if companied didn't use propaganda (a.k.a advertising) They would have less sales. I'm sure ATI and AMD have done the same in the past but this doesn't make nvidia an evil company they are just trying to regain sales.


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## [I.R.A]_FBi (Oct 26, 2008)

doesnt make them look evil but it makes them look dumb


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## MadClown (Oct 26, 2008)

silly, just silly


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2008)

i say fair call, sure ATi have released a new product, but they have a point, its worse than a 9800GT

you cringe all you want about their (awful) business practices of late, but their point is made.


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## DrPepper (Oct 26, 2008)

wolf said:


> i say fair call, sure ATi have released a new product, but they have a point, its worse than a 9800GT
> 
> you cringe all you want about their (awful) business practices of late, but their point is made.



Exactly according to those benchmarks the 9800GT does beat the 4 series. So that doesn't make them wrong, However if they had shown the benchmarks that the 4 series won then that would defeat the point in them promoting thier own products.


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> Exactly according to those benchmarks the 9800GT does beat the 4 series. So that doesn't make them wrong, However if they had shown the benchmarks that the 4 series won then that would defeat the point in them promoting thier own products.



dont get me wrong i agree its a really odd and crazy way of advertising that really doesnt leave them in a good light.

however i agree that given the figures and reviews, a 9800GT is slightly faster.

just like nvidia to point it out in a way thats "anything you can do i can do better, oh look ive already done it"

now its "oh crap, 4870's ..................... they're everywhere, game over man, game over" 

they need to get the GTX350 on the way so bad, and lower prices on GTX2XX


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## DrPepper (Oct 26, 2008)

wolf said:


> dont get me wrong i agree its a really odd and crazy way of advertising that really doesnt leave them in a good light.
> 
> however i agree that given the figures and reviews, a 9800GT is slightly faster.
> 
> ...



Hmm I can't say that I disagree with their marketing techniques but I bet my balls if the gtx 280 was faster than the 4870X2 they wouldn't let anyone forget it.


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## Mussels (Oct 26, 2008)

W1zzard said:


> bwahahahah, nvidia epic fail. they marked the benchmarks that are from the 560 sp card.
> 
> other than that, anyone is free to quote our data as long as sources are given and the data is not modified.



well, if you say its ok, no problems.


Personally, i'd complain as only you have the power to do so.

1. They used the results for the lower SP card. False advertising.

2. they compare to the 8800GT, not the 9800GT! gah!

To be honest... this is very disturbing to me. Its something you *could* take legal action over, due to the inherent lies and trickery.


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## DrPepper (Oct 26, 2008)

Mussels said:


> well, if you say its ok, no problems.
> 
> 
> Personally, i'd complain as only you have the power to do so.
> ...



It wouldn't be false advertising unless they said it was the higher sp card. As for taking legal action doesn't tpu's news team take benchmarks from other websites ?


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2008)

ive started this argument before, but i still think ATi cant get ahead in single gpu territory, some say multi gpu is the future, i disagree, one powerfull gpu all the way.

so in certain arguments, the 4870X2 shouldnt even be compared against a GTX280, the only reason they are is because of pricing, and shoehorning two gpu's onto one, big, hot, card.

not that a GTX280 isnt all of those....

in short im just bitching, im not a fan of either top dog at the moment.



Mussels said:


> they compare to the 8800GT, not the 9800GT! gah!



you know what a 9800GT IS right?


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## SimFreak47 (Oct 26, 2008)

I have Nothing against nVidia, in fact, I would use an nVidia over ATi any day. 

You guys need to realize that this is marketing/business. Yeah, there might be BS and whatever, but seriously, businesses do this. Are they going to be honest and say "Oh, our video card only gets x FPS more, but the competition would be the better buy"


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## DrPepper (Oct 26, 2008)

wolf said:


> ive started this argument before, but i still think ATi cant get ahead in single gpu territory, some say multi gpu is the future, i disagree, one powerfull gpu all the way.
> 
> so in certain arguments, the 4870X2 shouldnt even be compared against a GTX280, the only reason they are is because of pricing, and shoehorning two gpu's onto one, big, hot, card.
> 
> ...



I don't care how many gpu's are on a card just the number of pci-e slots taken up, thats how I'd count it anyway.


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> I don't care how many gpu's are on a card just the number of pci-e slots taken up, thats how I'd count it anyway.



ive had a few multi gpu setups, and its not for everyone, well not for me at least. far, far too many issues, and mainly just quirks.

not to mention neither company will ever get perfect scaling down, the only hope they have is Lucid's load balancer.


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## DrPepper (Oct 26, 2008)

wolf said:


> ive had a few multi gpu setups, and its not for everyone, well not for me at least. far, far too many issues, and mainly just quirks.
> 
> not to mention neither company will ever get perfect scaling down, the only hope they have is Lucid's load balancer.



You know it makes sense to make a single gpu better than add a second one.


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## SimFreak47 (Oct 26, 2008)

SimFreak47 said:


> I have Nothing against nVidia, in fact, I would use an nVidia over ATi any day.
> 
> You guys need to realize that this is marketing/business. Yeah, there might be BS and whatever, but seriously, businesses do this. Are they going to be honest and say "Oh, our video card only gets x FPS more, but the competition would be the better buy"





tkpenalty said:


> W1zz needs to stop Nvidia from publishing this propaganda, with legal action.



Thanks for the lulz


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> You know it makes sense to make a single gpu better than add a second one.



absolutly, i mean i usually just go for whatever card is best value for performance at the time.

like now i have a 4870, even though i sort of consider myself a nvidia fanboy, but the 4870 is an awesome card (although oddly enough, given the chance i wouldnt buy one again) i did have 2x4870 in CF but sold the second due to issues, and not seeing the gains i wanted.

max FPS was almost double in every game, but almost every game had unchanged min fps, and seriously what good is a 200-400 fps spike when it still dips below 60?

meh, just me bitching again 

but like i said, even nvidia multi gpu setups have presented the same quirks.


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## DOM (Oct 26, 2008)

wolf said:


> absolutly, i mean i usually just go for whatever card is best value for performance at the time.
> 
> like now i have a 4870, even though i sort of consider myself a nvidia fanboy, but the 4870 is an awesome card (although oddly enough, given the chance i wouldnt buy one again) i did have 2x4870 in CF but sold the second due to issues, and not seeing the gains i wanted.
> 
> ...


have you seen this 
http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=74477


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2008)

DOM said:


> have you seen this
> http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=74477



have now  thanks DOM very nice info


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## DOM (Oct 26, 2008)

wolf said:


> have now  thanks DOM very nice info



NP that why Nvidia messed up card is not running at full speed also w1z noted that in the 1st page in the review 

PLEASE NOTE: There is an issue with the HD 4830 sample from AMD. It has only 560 shaders instead of the intended 640. That's why the scores of the AMD card are so different. The card tested in this review has the correct shader count of 640 and is representative of the HD 4830 performance. Read more about this here.


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2008)

well that pretty much brings it on par with the 9800GT then yeah? neck and neck thats what we all like to see


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## DOM (Oct 26, 2008)

well i would like to see a review with the fixed bios to see what it really gots idc which is faster just for it to be fair


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2008)

i want to test both myself, that would be fair, and cool


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## W1zzard (Oct 26, 2008)

DOM said:


> well i would like to see a review with the fixed bios to see what it really gots idc which is faster just for it to be fair



look at the powercolor 4830 numbers. the performance of the 640 sp amd hd 4830 is equal to that



Mussels said:


> 2. they compare to the 8800GT, not the 9800GT! gah!


9800 GT is 100% identical to 8800 GT (exception being the stickers on the card)


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## Darren (Oct 26, 2008)

I've lost all respect for Nvidia, this is what happens when we support the company with the big money.  Next time I'm going to be buying ATI if this is how Nvidia market their products with bias results.

According to Hexus.net the 4830 is indeed faster than the 9800 GT - bearing in mind the 4830 is a new card and drivers have not yet matured yet the 4830 beats the 9800 GT!


I've included in the attachments a few screenshots of Hexus.net's benchmarks of the 4830 vs the 9800 GT. I would appreciate it everyone takes the time to look at all the images and respond back accordingly 

Also a quote from Hexus.net

_NVIDIA's GeForce 9800 GT still remains a viable competitor due to its keen pricing and extended software infrastructure that includes CUDA and PhysX, but the better pure gaming card is, on balance, the Radeon HD 4830._

Edit:

Incase the images are too small, the red bar is the 4830 and the purple bar is the 9800 GT


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## DOM (Oct 26, 2008)

W1zzard said:


> look at the powercolor 4830 numbers. the performance of the 640 sp amd hd 4830 is equal to that


 the powercolor is at full 640 sp ?


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## DrPepper (Oct 26, 2008)

W1zzard said:


> look at the powercolor 4830 numbers. the performance of the 640 sp amd hd 4830 is equal to that
> 
> 
> 9800 GT is 100% identical to 8800 GT (exception being the stickers on the card)



and lets not forget the die shrink


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## btarunr (Oct 26, 2008)

DOM said:


> the powercolor is at full 640 sp ?



Yes, the PowerColor card is the proper card there.



DrPepper said:


> and lets not forget the die shrink



Not all 9800 GT cards use G92b. The partners choose not to mention it at all. Same with 55nm 9600 GT.


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## captainskyhawk (Oct 26, 2008)

nvidia makes some good cards -- there no was no reason they had to do this.  you don't need to lie to sell your product, let the benchmarks speak for themselves


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## Steevo (Oct 26, 2008)

Lets face it, Nvidia has been doing this since ATI stepped on the scene, it works well to make the fanboys gloat over minor things and gives them other things to talk about than the actual facts and hard data. It is a excellent business practice against a smaller competitor who has less funds to advertise and counter this BS. It also makes noobs feel that Nvidia is the way to go as they seem the more appealing company, a friend bought a Nvidia PCI card instead of the AGP (old computer) 9800 or X800GTO that I offered to give him, only as he percieved the Nvidia product as being superior than the ATI. He is a NOOB, and now suffers stuttering and wishes he had the X800GTO.


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## brian.ca (Oct 26, 2008)

wolf said:


> ive started this argument before, but i still think ATi cant get ahead in single gpu territory, some say multi gpu is the future, i disagree, one powerfull gpu all the way.
> 
> so in certain arguments, the 4870X2 shouldnt even be compared against a GTX280, the only reason they are is because of pricing, and shoehorning two gpu's onto one, big, hot, card.
> 
> not that a GTX280 isnt all of those....



If you prefer one poweful gpu that's your call but I don't think it's accurate to say ATI can't get ahead with a single gpu when it's pretty clear that they don't want to.  You may not like the x2s or eventual x4s etc. but ATI seems keen on the idea and so far it seems to be working for them.  It's a cheaper option for a company that's still in the red that still lets them stay competetive in the high end.   It'd be silly to think that they're gonna deviate from a plan that's working well just to prove they have the bigger collective penis.

But at any rate it looks like the new rumor is that Nv's next gen cards won't be out until Q4 2009 (http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=343927), so if that's true ATI will probably have the fastest single chip for a 1 Quarter+ after they release the 5k series anyways.  Then we'll have to see what the GT300 is and how it fares.


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## Scrizz (Oct 26, 2008)

this is just sad :shadedshu


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## Winterwind (Oct 26, 2008)

they should rename 9800GT to 10800GT, then its better than HD4870 X2


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## W1zzard (Oct 26, 2008)

Winterwind said:


> they should rename 9800GT to 10800GT, then its better than HD4870 X2



actually i expect something like this to happen when nvidia goes through with their new rumored naming scheme


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## lemonadesoda (Oct 26, 2008)

So long as nVidia doesnt relabel the 280GTX to 1400000000GTX  (ie number of transistors for extra leety nerdness), any improvement will help. Problem is they are running too many different architecture SKUs to "normalise" their naming convention.


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## ShadowFold (Oct 26, 2008)

Yea the 9800GT is gonna be the GTX 150 soon here..


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## overclocker! (Oct 26, 2008)

OMG    It`s soo fast!!!!! by 100 frames different!!


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## InfDamarvel (Oct 26, 2008)

ShadowFold said:


> Yea the 9800GT is gonna be the GTX 150 soon here..



I actually think I heard something like that not to long ago.


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## wolf (Oct 26, 2008)

Darren said:


> According to Hexus.net the 4830 is indeed faster than the 9800 GT - bearing in mind the 4830 is a new card and drivers have not yet matured yet the 4830 beats the 9800 GT!



They use the exact same architecture as the rest of the 48XX series, which is a revamp of the architecture theyve been using for a while now, i doubt drivers will see huge gains anytime soon, yet both companies have a ways to go in terms of optimisation for new games and multi gpu scaling/support.


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## Mussels (Oct 26, 2008)

W1zzard said:


> look at the powercolor 4830 numbers. the performance of the 640 sp amd hd 4830 is equal to that
> 
> 
> 9800 GT is 100% identical to 8800 GT (exception being the stickers on the card)



i know its the same. my point is that this is just a ridiculous press release... the average consumer doesnst know an 8800GT and a 9800GT is the same, so when they see this they'll piss themselves laughing at the idiot who got the numbers wrong.


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## Steevo (Oct 26, 2008)

wolf said:


> They use the exact same architecture as the rest of the 48XX series, which is a revamp of the architecture theyve been using for a while now, i doubt drivers will see huge gains anytime soon, yet both companies have a ways to go in terms of optimisation for new games and multi gpu scaling/support.



Wrong.


No ring bus memory controller.
Fixed the AA issues with the 3XXX series, almost like having a free AA 2X
More SP's/improved core architecture.
4870 Has DDR5



So far as driver optimisation, revisit my comment earlier, Nvidia does get driver optimisations, ususlly they kill some eye candy to get more FPS without telling the end user.


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## mitsirfishi (Oct 27, 2008)

Tbh imo nvidia cant accept that in the mid range market price around the £80-170 range (nvidia playing the bullshit card)   which is all the hd48XX series they just got havnt got any answers to the 4830, and 4850 no matter how meny times they try to revamp a 8800gt and Add the plus (+) give it another name to ,regardless of overclocked edition they still dont compare bang for buck for the performance ati have layed down sledgehammer and got it right. Nvidia playing stupid childish games...


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## wolf (Oct 27, 2008)

Steevo said:


> Wrong.



i understand your point of view, please dont post like its fact.

neither you or i truely know wether these cards will see a huge benfit from new drivers.

and ALOT of the arcitecture is the same, just optimised physically, doesnt necissarily translate into the need for new drivers.

also this card is VERY similar to the 4850, which has been out for months, any big fixes, we've already seen IMO.


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## Mr.President (Oct 27, 2008)

uber FAIL!


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## InfDamarvel (Oct 27, 2008)

.....Nvidia needs to stop hatin wow lol.


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## Steevo (Oct 27, 2008)

I never said that ATI has released driver tweaks spacificly, or that there was room for improvement (Far Cry 2 driver fix, before release) here recently they have focused on hardware stability and game issues, two bigger factors than if you can get another two FPS in a game or another 200 points in a benchmark. 




Real gamers feel that if you can play the game at reasonable settings, its good to play. If your hardware can't perform due to a driver/BIOS bug, they would rather have a fix and it work right than a halfass driver optimisation and whoops, where are my textures, and gee that sure looks funny, damn it locked up again or some of the other BS tha Nvidia has pulled out of their ass to make fanboys gobble down the loaf they just laid.


That is fact, not opinion.


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## indybird (Oct 27, 2008)

I like their use of this graph:






Yeah the 9800GT is 19% faster!!!!  To bad nearly all of the cards (including the 9800GT) are getting unplayable frames at these settings.

-Indybird


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## wolf (Oct 27, 2008)

Steevo said:


> I never said that ATI has released driver tweaks spacificly, or that there was room for improvement (Far Cry 2 driver fix, before release) here recently they have focused on hardware stability and game issues, two bigger factors than if you can get another two FPS in a game or another 200 points in a benchmark.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




actually no thats your opinion again, its how YOU feel about this situation, its not how everybody feels, thus not fact.

if you dont like them then go do something about it.


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## OzzmanFloyd120 (Oct 27, 2008)

Steevo said:


> Wrong.
> 
> 
> No ring bus memory controller.
> ...



I completely disagree with you. This post is like saying that the Phenom architecture is completely different from the Athlon architecture. Also you point out that the 4870 has GDDR5, but that argument is irrelevant to what we're talking about here.


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## imperialreign (Oct 27, 2008)

indybird said:


> I like their use of this graph:
> . . .
> 
> Yeah the 9800GT is 19% faster!!!!  To bad nearly all of the cards (including the 9800GT) are getting unplayable frames at these settings.
> ...




that is a prime example of a piss-poor marketing tactic nVidia has been using for what seems like ages now . . . they routinely whip out the benchmarks at the highest resolution settings, why?  Because the percentage difference between their hardware, and their competitors is much higher . . . and when you're getting your ass stomped for the first time in a couple of years, you'll stoop pretty low to prove a point.


For example, in that image you quoted, they claim a 19% difference between the 4830 and the *8800* . . .

In the right-side chart, the *8800* rakes in a bench score of 19.2 FPS, the 4830 they're "competing" against only scored 16.1 FPS . . . doing the quick math, that really works out to *16.1%* (that's right, the dumb-asses that prepared that slide goofed on the final figure :shadedshu) . . .

but, if you compare the differene on the left-side chart, where the *8800* scores 54.3 FPS versus the 4830's 50.3 FPS, the math now works out to *7.3%* better.




What looks better to the n00bz, 19% 16% or 7%?


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## wolf (Oct 27, 2008)

anyone can overclock the difference out anyway, with a bit of keen tweakage.


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## Mussels (Oct 27, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> What looks better to the n00bz, 19% 16% or 7%?



ROFL.

what this *really* looks like to me, was some beginner in marketing made this up and sent it to his boss "hey boss, we OWNED ati lol" - the boss/supervisor was like... hey, you're right. and it got posted around a bit. Add in a leak, and here we are - ridiculous, stupid slides with incorrect information.


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## imperialreign (Oct 27, 2008)

Mussels said:


> ROFL.
> 
> what this *really* looks like to me, was some beginner in marketing made this up and sent it to his boss "hey boss, we OWNED ati lol" - the boss/supervisor was like... hey, you're right. and it got posted around a bit. Add in a leak, and here we are - ridiculous, stupid slides with incorrect information.





yeah, it is rather pathetic . . .


at least there's sites like here at TPU where the vast majority of us catch that bad, odorous BS smell as soon as the propaganda hits the i-net.


I'm starting to think, perhaps, seeing as how nVidia made a great effort to qoute W1z's hard review work . . . perhaps TPU should release a "response" to nVidia's claims, pointing out their EPIC FAILS?


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## wolf (Oct 27, 2008)

yes, W1z Doiiiii.

response
response
response
response
response
response
response


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## Mussels (Oct 27, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> yeah, it is rather pathetic . . .
> 
> 
> at least there's sites like here at TPU where the vast majority of us catch that bad, odorous BS smell as soon as the propaganda hits the i-net.
> ...



now THAT, i would like. generate a lot of PR for here as well.

W1zzard should make a 'response' to it, stating the following.

1. They quoted the WRONG 4830 in the results.
2. incorrect %'s/performance numbers
3. while 8800GT and 9800GT are technically the same, isnt it odd for Nvidia to ignore that themselves, and confuse the two names?


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## imperialreign (Oct 27, 2008)

I think it'd be a good idea as well, would get TPU out there some more, and bump up the respect for the site some more as well.

It might even bolster some more support from ATI themselves, but could also tarnish relations with nVidia . . .

although, nVidia might take it well and be thanful someone pointed out the huge error their PR/marketing division has made . . .


I'm all for the idea, personally.


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## Steevo (Oct 27, 2008)

Let it be, the damage is already done, those that know, do, those that don't probably won't.

This is decending into a mudslinging contest, ATI made a boo boo and Nvidia capatilized on it. Who cares, it has been hapening for years. 



There is better things to be doing, like actual gaming, OCing, and going to bed now.


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## Mussels (Oct 27, 2008)

Steevo said:


> Let it be, the damage is already done, those that know, do, those that don't probably won't.
> 
> This is decending into a mudslinging contest, ATI made a boo boo and Nvidia capatilized on it. Who cares, it has been hapening for years.
> 
> ...



yeah but if w1zz points them out, it does two things.

1. it gets attention drawn to bad marketing. NO ONE likes bad marketing/BS propoganda. It hopefully will prevent this happening again.

2. it gets TPU in the news more. TPU, and w1zzard, deserve the attention.


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## imperialreign (Oct 27, 2008)

well, another way of looking at it -


our reviewers write the reviews for the people, for the masses -

they're not out there writing the reviews for company's to use that information to bolster their own product sales.  Honestly, I thought that's what the company's marketing/PR department was supposed to do - cough up their own "internal" testing to make slides with to help increase sales . . .


seeing as how they thought it alright enough to "borrow" (and I doubt without permission) testing results from TPU to make slides that will boost their product sales . . . shouldn't it seem entirelly fitting that TPU could ask nVidia for a percentage of their sales revenue?

I mean, it's not like W1z wrote the review such purposes, but if that's how nVidia want's to roll, eh?


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## btarunr (Oct 27, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> seeing as how they thought it alright enough to "borrow" (and I doubt without permission) testing results from TPU to make slides that will boost their product sales . . . shouldn't it seem entirelly fitting that TPU could ask nVidia for a percentage of their sales revenue?
> 
> I mean, it's not like W1z wrote the review such purposes, but if that's how nVidia want's to roll, eh?



well, another way of looking at it-

NVIDIA slides + TPU logo = happy W1z.


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## Hayder_Master (Oct 27, 2008)

Mussels said:


> well, if you say its ok, no problems.
> 
> 
> Personally, i'd complain as only you have the power to do so.
> ...



yeh that's right , and about 9800gt the (9800gt = 8800gt with bios update).


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## Hayder_Master (Oct 27, 2008)

W1zzard said:


> bwahahahah, nvidia epic fail. they marked the benchmarks that are from the 560 sp card.
> 
> other than that, anyone is free to quote our data as long as sources are given and the data is not modified.



me too , bwahahaha , i want to say to nvidia w1zzarad find this card come with 560 from the begging . nvidia see techpowerup before you do test


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## DaedalusHelios (Oct 27, 2008)

Wow, those aren't legit slides. Its just crappy cut and paste via photoshop. Nvidia wouldn't and has never done cut and paste copypasta with slides. Its clearly not legit people. Bad source. 

Also official slides would never compare the 9800gt as data from a 8800gt in graphs. I thought somebody else would see it as obvious too.


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## caleb (Oct 27, 2008)

You guys are sad. Some donkey made a photoshop slideshow and you all behave like it would be end of days.

Its amaizing how ppl react to that kinda stuff... always good to spit on somebody no matter if the reason is legit as long as other ppl spit too.

I also wonder why does wiz allow such a highly 'constructive' content on the news page..do you know why ?


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## caleb (Oct 27, 2008)

btarunr said:


> well, another way of looking at it-
> 
> NVIDIA slides + TPU logo = happy W1z.


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## btarunr (Oct 27, 2008)

caleb said:


> You guys are sad. Some donkey made a photoshop slideshow and you all behave like it would be end of days.
> 
> Its amaizing how ppl react to that kinda stuff... always good to spit on somebody no matter if the reason is legit as long as other ppl spit too.
> 
> I also wonder why does wiz allow such a highly 'constructive' content on the news page..do you know why ?



Just as there's nothing to show this is genuinely from NVIDIA, there's nothing to show otherwise. It's sourced from another site, which has been providing us news for ages now. This is how NV presents to its partners, with images lifted from reviews. Besides, there's a source for it quoted. 

As for frontpage content and w1z allowing it,...well as you can see, he doesn't have a problem with it. Pictures have been taken from Donanim Haber, and it's linked to them. If you do, don't post/comment. Go back through our archives, and you will find that such presentations from NVIDIA have even made it to reviews (reviews titled "xyz NVIDIA presentation") so this isn't something out of the ordinary.

Edit: for example: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/CrossfireTruth/   there are more if I could dig thru. Don't those slides look like they were made by a donkey too? Perhaps a donkey working for NVIDIA.


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## Nick89 (Oct 27, 2008)

Damn, this really shows how despirate nvidia is getting for them to be resorting to propaganda:shadedshu


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## DaedalusHelios (Oct 27, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Just as there's nothing to show this is genuinely from NVIDIA, there's nothing to show otherwise. It's sourced from another site, which has been providing us news for ages now. This is how NV presents to its partners, with images lifted from reviews. Besides, there's a source for it quoted.
> 
> As for frontpage content and w1z allowing it,...well as you can see, he doesn't have a problem with it. Pictures have been taken from Donanim Haber, and it's linked to them. If you do, don't post/comment. Go back through our archives, and you will find that such presentations from NVIDIA have even made it to reviews (reviews titled "xyz NVIDIA presentation") so this isn't something out of the ordinary.
> 
> Edit: for example: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/CrossfireTruth/   there are more if I could dig thru. Don't those slides look like they were made by a donkey too? Perhaps a donkey working for NVIDIA.



If they really did those slides you just linked back in 2005 its really sad. You would expect more of a professional job than that from a marketing department. I have always done better than that with company slides and mine were all internal(in other words, not released to the public).


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## btarunr (Oct 27, 2008)

DaedalusHelios said:


> If they really did those slides you just linked back in 2005 its really sad. You would expect more of a professional job than that from a marketing department. I have always done better than that with company slides and mine were all internal(in other words, not released to the public).



There are more. IIRC there was one about 7900 GTX vs. X1950 XTX, I just can't seem to find it. Yes, these are internal presentations, that sometimes NV selectively provides its partners and/or the press.


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## eidairaman1 (Oct 27, 2008)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-112728.html


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## btarunr (Oct 27, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-112728.html



I'm referring to a presentation article, not the X1950 review.


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## DaedalusHelios (Oct 27, 2008)

eidairaman1 said:


> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-112728.html



From a glance, those are just reviews I think.


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## caleb (Oct 27, 2008)

btarunr

I really dont wonna offend you with this but it is simply stupid to claim that a company with 2007 turnover of 7 bilion USD would really have to use primary school style presentation about a product as a marketing tool.

Really man posting funny results from other pages is ok and some news about products but this thing stinks a mile away. And the fact that you as a news editor are pushing this to be a hard fact ads more bad taste into it. 

If you believe it its OK  but for me its really a lot of laughs that  you think they need to download techpowerup charts with 3dmark results to show ASUS,Gigabyte etc that their multimilion dollar chip is better than ATI


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## DarkMatter (Oct 27, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> that is a prime example of a piss-poor marketing tactic nVidia has been using for what seems like ages now . . . they routinely whip out the benchmarks at the highest resolution settings, why?  Because the percentage difference between their hardware, and their competitors is much higher . . . and when you're getting your ass stomped for the first time in a couple of years, you'll stoop pretty low to prove a point.
> 
> 
> For example, in that image you quoted, they claim a 19% difference between the 4830 and the *8800* . . .
> ...



Funny how you can't even do basic maths. 

- 19.2 FPS / 16.1 FPS * 100 = 119.254% <------ The 8800 GT *IS* 19.2 faster there.

- NOW 16.1 / 19.2 * 100 = 83.854% >>> 100 - 83.8 = 16.2% <------ THE HD4830 IS 16.2% *SLOWER* in that benchmark.

Not that this has anything to do with the points being made in the thread, BUT LEARN MATHS before bashing anyone for something that's not truth. Check your facts before spilliing out BS like the one above. It's just embarrasing.


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## btarunr (Oct 27, 2008)

caleb said:


> btarunr
> 
> I really dont wonna offend you with this but it is simply stupid to claim that a company with 2007 turnover of 7 bilion USD would really have to use primary school style presentation about a product as a marketing tool.
> 
> ...



1/not my claim. I convey news. 
2/they have used this exact style of presentations, an example of which I have linked, which W1zzard posted. They use data from websites, including links, quotes, sometimes plain numbers, and sometimes charts
3/you're not of any consequence for me to feel offended, just as the other way round


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## Mussels (Oct 27, 2008)

caleb said:


> btarunr
> 
> I really dont wonna offend you with this but it is simply stupid to claim that a company with 2007 turnover of 7 bilion USD would really have to use primary school style presentation about a product as a marketing tool.
> 
> ...



ANOTHER website is claiming its fact, and the news people here are simply reposting it, and linking to them. Trust us... Nvidia and ATI have done things like this in the past, and they were just as stupid and childish.


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## btarunr (Oct 27, 2008)

Please let's not resort to name-calling.


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## imperialreign (Oct 27, 2008)

caleb said:


> btarunr
> 
> I really dont wonna offend you with this but it is simply stupid to claim that a company with 2007 turnover of 7 bilion USD would really have to use primary school style presentation about a product as a marketing tool.
> 
> ...



thing is - nVidia has a long history of using other people's work for their marketing propaganda, from GPU performance, right down to GPU work load capabilities (anyone remember their F@H presentations?  Whose images and results were they using?  Same for PhsyX . . .).  ATI, although just as bad about using other source's reviews/info, will at the very least set their marketing department to make their propaganda look professional, and presentable.

Just because it looks like the work of a kiddy-gardener doesn't meant it's not official.




DarkMatter said:


> Funny how you can't even do basic maths.
> 
> - 19.2 FPS / 16.1 FPS * 100 = 119.254% <------ The 8800 GT *IS* 19.2 faster there.
> 
> ...





Thanks for the correction - but keep it a little more "tounge-in-cheek" next time, eh?  It's not like crunching effin' percentages is a 24/7 routine for me, and with my head all wrapped up in the effin' calculus I've been getting schooled in for the last 3 months, sometimes that BASIC SHIT slips my effin 'mind.


Although I happened to calculate the percentage of increase, that's still better than most people can effin remember.

:shadedshu


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## hat (Oct 27, 2008)

Does anyone else notice that nvidia appears to be pointing to the 8800gt?


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## DaedalusHelios (Oct 27, 2008)

hat said:


> Does anyone else notice that nvidia appears to be pointing to the 8800gt?



I know.... thats one of the reasons I think it isn't legit. Also the first slide is rebadged from a presentation about six months ago on the companies website.


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## niko084 (Oct 27, 2008)

Haha, I find this funny...

Negative advertisement should be banned and illegal...

So Nvidia, how do you feel about your re-bagged 8800GT trying to sell more of the same old dated card?


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