# New NVIDIA GeForce GTX280 Three Times Faster than HD 3870 in Folding@Home



## zekrahminator (May 26, 2008)

Just a couple days ago, we informed you that NVIDIA had joined the Folding@Home team. However, at the time, benchmarks for this new client were unavailable. I am now happy to inform you that (internal) benchmarks are available for your viewing pleasure. The rather large green bar was achieved using the new NVIDIA GPU core, the GTX280. As far as exact numbers go, this sucker can fold at 500 mol/day, which is much higher than the Radeon HD 3870 numbers (170 mol/day), five times higher than PS3 numbers (100 mol/day), and astronomically higher than the average computer numbers (4 mol/day). Whether or not this translates into actual gaming performance is yet to be seen, however, it's pretty hard to imagine how something so powerful wouldn't bring back some respectable FPS in games like Crysis. 








*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## ShadowFold (May 26, 2008)

Is it actually called GTX280 or is it 9900GTX?


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## panchoman (May 26, 2008)

as i said in the other thread.. i'm calling BS on this graph


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## Darkmind (May 26, 2008)

what's "mol" ?


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## magibeg (May 26, 2008)

Well that would explain things a little bit better from that Folding@home slide before when it showed the nvidia gpu killing the ati one. Also makes me curious as to what a 4870x2 could do in terms of folding.


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## jocksteeluk (May 26, 2008)

Great! how does it do on games?


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## DrPepper (May 26, 2008)

Hurry up goddamit I want to fold my 8800GT. I hope this client allows other cards to fold and not just the GTX280


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## Animalpak (May 26, 2008)

Sad years for ATI ( OWNED AGAIN ).


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## Para_Franck (May 26, 2008)

Owned by speculations.... Com on, we don't even see 48xx performance....

As I always say: wait and see. 

As for the 38xx series, they perform verry well for their price. They are beat by Nvidia, but not owned.


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## panchoman (May 26, 2008)

benchmarks show that a single 4870 pwns a 9800x2 in crysis and 3dmark


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## Animalpak (May 26, 2008)

Will see this summer.


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## philbrown23 (May 26, 2008)

now lets compare it to the 4870 then we will see whos on top


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## DrPepper (May 26, 2008)

Animalpak said:


> Sad years for ATI ( OWNED AGAIN ).



Its far too early to make assumptions because neither cards have been released or even benchmarks released.


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## Azn Tr14dZ (May 26, 2008)

Darkmind said:


> what's "mol" ?



It's a counting unit. One mole (or mol for short) is 6.02214x10^23...which is Avogadro's Number. I just learned this in Chemistry.


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## Para_Franck (May 26, 2008)

What strikes me most is how the PS3's cell processor is easily beat.


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## WarEagleAU (May 26, 2008)

Considering all the time Nvidia has had to work with the folding at home code and finally get it going, Im not much dismayed by this. Im glad they can fold that many molecules a day myself, this will help us in the future no doubt. also, considering what their CUDA platform can do, this isnt a huge shocker; even though ATIs GPGPU is pretty awesome in its own right.

PS3s cell processor assists in the folding if Im not mistaken, but its actually the nvidia part that does most of the work. I of course, could have that backwards.


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## acperience7 (May 26, 2008)

jocksteeluk said:


> Great! how does it do on games?



My thoughts as well. For something that is basically a side note feature Nvidia is making too big of a deal out of this.


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## farlex85 (May 26, 2008)

I wouldn't doubt it, this card will likely be a beast. Probably the best money can buy for a while.


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## Azn Tr14dZ (May 26, 2008)

WarEagleAU said:


> Considering all the time Nvidia has had to work with the folding at home code and finally get it going, Im not much dismayed by this. Im glad they can fold that many molecules a day myself, this will help us in the future no doubt. also, considering what their CUDA platform can do, this isnt a huge shocker; even though ATIs GPGPU is pretty awesome in its own right.
> 
> PS3s cell processor assists in the folding if Im not mistaken, but its actually the nvidia part that does most of the work. I of course, could have that backwards.



Wait, so does F@H fold moles or molecules?


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## DrPepper (May 26, 2008)

Azn Tr14dZ said:


> Wait, so does F@H fold moles or molecules?



Maybe the moles of the molecule


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## panchoman (May 26, 2008)

well theres avogadro's (6.02x10^23) number of atoms/moles/molecules/particles(the most generic term) in a mole (also 22.4 L at STP)

so F@h analyzes moles of molecules, making dr. pepper's joke true lol


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## imperialreign (May 26, 2008)

just thought of something . . .


well, any of us who've taken part in the F@H project know that each console is otpimized for what it's supposed to be working with - they literally pick the work load for each specific console which is optimized for specific hardware to run it best


so, seeing as how SMP work units are optimized for multi-core processors, and CPU clients are optimized for single-core processors . . . the GPU client we've had for our ATI cards runs WUs that are optimized for a GPU, and the PS3 client runs optimized WUs for it's processing architecture . . .


my thought, then - what's to say that nVidia's graph isn't just comparing what their unit IS capable of, but incorrectly compairing different types of processing - sure, their new hardware might be able to process 500 molecules a day, but that doesn't really mean much in the overall scheme of things if it's processing simple molecule WUs instead of more complex units like the SMP client can handle . . .


. . . not sure if I'm making any sense with this, I feel like I'm rambling


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## DrPepper (May 26, 2008)

panchoman said:


> well theres avogadro's (6.02x10^23) number of atoms/moles/molecules/particles(the most generic term) in a mole (also 22.4 L at STP)
> 
> so F@h analyzes moles of molecules, making dr. pepper's joke true lol



It was true  I learned about moles in chemistry too  and my exam is on Friday


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## panchoman (May 26, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> just thought of something . . .
> 
> 
> well, any of us who've taken part in the F@H project know that each console is otpimized for what it's supposed to be working with - they literally pick the work load for each specific console which is optimized for specific hardware to run it best
> ...



i see what you're saying there imperial, and it think you've struck something here

i'm wondering what kind of core the wu thats used in the graph based on? is it even based on a wu? is this just processing power? or is this theoretical? what is the basis for the data for other things? what wu's are the other things in the graph running? 

makes me think this is some theoretical processing power BS


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## DrPepper (May 26, 2008)

It looks too exact (500) to not be theoretical.


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## panchoman (May 26, 2008)

nvidia has so much bullshit out there.. its amazing..


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## imperialreign (May 26, 2008)

panchoman said:


> i see what you're saying there imperial, and it think you've struck something here
> 
> i'm wondering what kind of core the wu thats used in the graph based on? is it even based on a wu? is this just processing power? or is this theoretical? what is the basis for the data for other things? what wu's are the other things in the graph running?
> 
> makes me think this is some theoretical processing power BS



that's kinda what I was trying to get across -


there's differences in WUs as they're intended for specific hardware.  A GPU can't run the SMP client, and it would buckle under the work load even if you could; just like a single-core CPU can't efficiently handle SMP workloads, either.

Perhaps nVidia's GPUs will end up with their own specific folding client - which, I figure they probably would seeing as how different their GPU architecture is over ATIs - one that is more optimized for their GPUs?  

Not saying that's a bad thing, having seperate GPU clients - but, perhaps nVidia's GPU can only work with simple molecules, which is where they get such an astronomical mol/day figure from . . . it makes sense, IMO.

I guess, really, the only way to see for sure, is when their new GPUs are on the market, and people start folding with them.  It'd be interesting to keep an eye on the ppd earned as compared to ATI's cards - if nVidia's are earning fewer ppd as compared to a 3870, then we would know that it's working with less complex WUs.


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## panchoman (May 26, 2008)

yup, it all comes down to points in the end


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## DrPepper (May 26, 2008)

panchoman said:


> nvidia has so much bullshit out there.. its amazing..



You would think if they were touting how great their gpu was they would pull out 'real' benchmarks  and say F you crysis "this many" fps


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## imperialreign (May 26, 2008)

My final .02 cents on this topic before I brush it off entirelly:


TBH, I think it's great nVidia have finally decided to work with F@H and get their new GPUs ready to help out with the project.  Really, the F@H project has the potential to affect everyone sooner or later, in some shape or form.

I just personally feel this is lacking any sense of tact, though - I really don't think nVidia should be making their new GPUs F@H capability a marketing point to help sell their new hardware; if they've twisted or misrepresented the facts, even more shameful, IMO.  There's no point for such points that they are trying to make, when the hardware isn't even here yet to prove what it's truly capable of; and all of us know how the nVidia fanbois will run rampant over these images trying to claim how 1337 the new hardware will be.

IIRC, I can't recall ATI, nor any other hardware manufacturer making radical claims when they joined up - hell, ATI was rather quiet about it.


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## Megasty (May 26, 2008)

I'm brushing this bull off now. WTH does a mol have to do with computing power. Theoretical BS is still BS. If someone has the time to give us some gd numbers we don't understand then why don't they give us some gaming results.


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## panchoman (May 26, 2008)

Megasty said:


> I'm brushing this bull off now. WTH does a mol have to do with computing power. Theoretical BS is still BS. If someone has the time to give us some gd numbers we don't understand then why don't they give us some gaming results.



thank you! you're absolutely right


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## phanbuey (May 26, 2008)

some people cant stand the fact that nVidia makes good hardware...  I believe it for one, the GTX 280 has shaders that run at twice the speed of ATI's and theyre all full stream processing units, as opposed to one stream processing unit with four whatever attached.  that and they said that they changed the architecture of the SP's to make them more efficient per-clock...

ATi is great, but nVidia got it right.  Some people are just haters.


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## PVTCaboose1337 (May 26, 2008)

Although this might be faster I wanna wait till the card comes out cause these tend to be a bit inaccurate.


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## simlariver (May 26, 2008)

Years after years, pre-launch speculation is still the same ... The promise you a 250% better card, which end up been 30% more powerfull.


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## KainXS (May 26, 2008)

well you have to take into account that nvidia vs ati has been this way for a while now, these numbers mean nothing, nvidia makes high powered gpu's which can usually crunch much more data than ati's while ati sticks with a complicated but effective combination of a ton of shaders and a decent gpu, I'm pretty sure the 8800GT would do better in folding than the 3870 as well.

so yeah, a card thats proably 30% faster


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## btarunr (May 26, 2008)

LOL at some posts. 

"mols" in that chart isn't a quantity of a single molecule, they meant _number of molecules folded / time_, where time is constant.


The job F@H does is take a protein molecule and simulate its folding in accordance to the raw data F@H servers provide. After simulation of a protein folding, the parameters of the folded molecule (which differ from that of the original) are sent back to the server. This simulation requires computational power. 

I don't think the NVidia graph is exaggerated considering they built the core (F@H core) using NVidia CUDA, and CUDA apps get the most computational power out of both geometry and shader domains of a CUDA-supportive GPU, in this case the fastest NVidia ever made, the GTX 280. There still isn't an IDE that lets you get the most out of ATI's Stream Computing though ATI is working on one.


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## wolf2009 (May 26, 2008)

panchoman said:


> well theres avogadro's (6.02x10^23) number of atoms/moles/molecules/particles(the most generic term) in a mole (also 22.4 L at STP)
> 
> so F@h analyzes moles of molecules, making dr. pepper's joke true lol



whats dr pepper's joke ?


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## Megasty (May 26, 2008)

wolf2009 said:


> whats dr pepper's joke ?



I taught HS chem for 3 yrs b4 moving on to greater pastures. Its not really a joke to me either but that's just how silly those figures are. I don't care one bit about how many times a card can fold over a protein molecule. The only statistics I care about are framerates. I have 10 yrs of college under my belt & this junk tells me nothing about the card. 

Leave the proteins for shakes & stakes & give me some framerates 

I think I need to lie dowm after that one


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## newtekie1 (May 26, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> I guess, really, the only way to see for sure, is when their new GPUs are on the market, and people start folding with them.  It'd be interesting to keep an eye on the ppd earned as compared to ATI's cards - if nVidia's are earning fewer ppd as compared to a 3870, then we would know that it's working with less complex WUs.



PPD isn't a good guage in unit complexity and actual work being done.  When you actually look at how the numbers are generated, you realize this.

How many points each unit is worth depends on how long it would take a P4 2.8GHz(Socket 478 Northwood) with SSE2 disabled to complete.  Then they plug the number of days it takes that processor to complete the work unit into the formula 110*(Number of Days) and that is your points per WU for CPUs.  Now in the case of the SMP client, the same method is used, but then a 50% bonus is given to each WU's score just because it is an SMP WU.  Does that mean the work is any more complex?  No.  Does that mean the multi-core CPUs are doing more work per WU than a single core CPU?  No.  But they still get more points per WU and hence more PPD than a single core doing the same work.

Now, in terms of GPU folding.  The new GPU2 client that runs on the new HD2000 and HD3000 are done the same way.  They benchmark each WU on a 3850 and then multiply the number of days it take for the WU to complete by 1000.  Why 1000?  It is just a number they picked.  If they pick a lower number to muptiply by when doing the nVidia calculations or begin the benchmarking process with a weaker GPU, then the PPD vs. ATi cards won't be a good guage on performance.


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## a111087 (May 26, 2008)

Animalpak said:


> Sad years for ATI ( OWNED AGAIN ).



lol, why would you say that? its a comparison of cards from different generations


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## hat (May 26, 2008)

so when can we expect to be able to download this, and will it work on my 8600gts?


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## Basard (May 26, 2008)

yeah, just what i wanna do all day with my new graphics card, fold at home...  why not make a FPU (fold processing unit,) instead, and better yet, why dont you get your own computer to put it in--instead of using mine to fold your crap, you cheap bastards, lol.  

why dont they fold us a way to get rid of fossil fuels.


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## Haytch (May 26, 2008)

Wouldnt mind seeing the 280 compared to the G80. 
Would be nicer to see how the 3870 competes against the G92.


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## hat (May 26, 2008)

Basard said:


> yeah, just what i wanna do all day with my new graphics card, fold at home...  why not make a FPU (fold processing unit,) instead, and better yet, why dont you get your own computer to put it in--instead of using mine to fold your crap, you cheap bastards, lol.
> 
> why dont they fold us a way to get rid of fossil fuels.



ignorance is bliss...


> Why not just use a supercomputer?
> 
> Modern supercomputers are essentially clusters of hundreds of processors linked by fast networking. The speed of these processors is comparable to (and often slower than) those found in PCs! Thus, if an algorithm (like ours) does not need the fast networking, it will run just as fast on a supercluster as a supercomputer. However, our application needs not the hundreds of processors found in modern supercomputers, but hundreds of thousands of processors. Hence, the calculations performed on Folding@home would not be possible by any other means! Moreover, even if we were given exclusive access to all of the supercomputers in the world, we would still have fewer computing cycles than we do with the Folding@home cluster! This is possible since PC processors are now very fast and there are hundreds of millions of PCs sitting idle in the world.


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## Rebo&Zooty (May 26, 2008)

this is like saying somebody who posts 1 line replys 20times a day is better then somebody who posts long informitive diatribes 5x a day.........


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## Hayder_Master (May 26, 2008)

well is looking good so we just wait to compare with hd 4870


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## btarunr (May 26, 2008)

hat said:


> and will it work on my 8600gts?



Yes, any GeForce 8, 9 and upcoming series GPU. 



Rebo&Zooty said:


> this is like saying somebody who posts 1 line replys 20times a day is better then somebody who posts long informitive diatribes 5x a day.........



If you can condense a paragraph into 1~2 sentences, it carries equal weight.


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## Rebo&Zooty (May 26, 2008)

btarunr said:


> Yes, any GeForce 8, 9 and upcoming series GPU.
> 
> 
> 
> If you can condense a paragraph into 1~2 sentences, it carries equal weight.



not if it dosnt make any sence or isnt understood by 1/2 the people.

i could cut down alot of things i say to 1-3 sentances, but only a few people would get what i was saying.


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## btarunr (May 26, 2008)

Rebo&Zooty said:


> not if it dosnt make any sence or isnt understood by 1/2 the people.
> 
> i could cut down alot of things i say to 1-3 sentances, but only a few people would get what i was saying.



I come across a lot of posts that span across several paragraphs all conveying a point that can fit into a couple of sentences. That's why I used the word _condense_ and not 'cut down'.


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## Edito (May 26, 2008)

phanbuey said:


> some people cant stand the fact that nVidia makes good hardware...
> 
> ATi is great, but nVidia got it right.  Some people are just haters.



i agree with u, and lets face it nVidia just make good cards despite everthing ATI make good cards too its a fact  that nvidia is always one step ahaed and we don´t need to hate ATI or nvidia because of that, if u like ATI u´ll buy if i like nvidia i will buy and in the very end we will be playing the same games with the "same performance" and im not gonna hate ATI cause they got 5 FPS more than my nvida card "ON THE BENCHMARKS OVER THE INTERNET"


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## btarunr (May 26, 2008)

Megasty said:


> I'm brushing this bull off now. WTH does a mol have to do with computing power. Theoretical BS is still BS. If someone has the time to give us some gd numbers we don't understand then why don't they give us some gaming results.



That which 3DMark has...

A _mol_ here is a protein molecule whose folding has to be simulated, data relating to its folding collected and sent back to the F@H servers. The simulation of a molecule folding (in 100% accordance to all laws of physics/chemistry) requires lots of computational power. Either you make your CPU do it or, you program the shader units in your GPU to do it. With GPU comes a great deal of parallelism because you can program a shader to even do your maths homework, here you're making them compute for the protein folding.


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## DrPepper (May 26, 2008)

Megasty said:


> I taught HS chem for 3 yrs b4 moving on to greater pastures. Its not really a joke to me either but that's just how silly those figures are.



 It was a serious answer that just happened to sound funny


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## Megasty (May 26, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> It was a serious answer that just happened to sound funny



I thought so  But half the kids I came across thought a mol & a molecule was the same thing & I couldn't convince them otherwise for the life of me


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## btarunr (May 26, 2008)

In those charts, _mol_ doesn't refer to mole (the quantity), it refers to number of molecules processed in a given time.


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## Millenia (May 26, 2008)

Animalpak said:


> Sad years for ATI ( OWNED AGAIN ).



Not in my eyes, I personally don't give two shits about hypothetical performance as I can't fork out more than 300€ for a GPU anyways. What matters to me most is the price/performance, and I'm sure many others would agree as well.


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## DrGreenThumb (May 26, 2008)

Funny seeing it compared with PS3 hahah or should i call it blurstation 3,
even my 360 gta vI looks way better then my brother ps3 ver

But who would spend that much on a card really....


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## btarunr (May 26, 2008)

DrGreenThumb said:


> But who would spend that much on a card really....



The same which spent the same amount buying a 8800 Ultra.


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## ShinyG (May 26, 2008)

Nice "figures", but I don't see how this is a representation of the final gaming performance of the card! Of course it's good news to actually see that the next gen card beats the current card of the competition, but that's something obvious!
The only result I see is the boners the fanbois get when looking at "internal" benchmarks...


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## jonmcc33 (May 26, 2008)

jocksteeluk said:


> Great! how does it do on games?



Don't you know that you need to buy a $600 video card just for F@H!??!? Nobody cares about gaming anymore.


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## kyle2020 (May 26, 2008)

and the point of F@H is what? i know to help find cures to diseases by donating computing power, but do WE get anything out of it? not to sound selfish


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## DrPepper (May 26, 2008)

kyle2020 said:


> and the point of F@H is what? i know to help find cures to diseases by donating computing power, but do WE get anything out of it? not to sound selfish



If you live in america you might get a discount if you tell them you helped cure the disease?


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## kyle2020 (May 26, 2008)

DrPepper said:


> If you live in america you might get a discount if you tell them you helped cure the disease?



haha might be a reason


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## btarunr (May 27, 2008)

kyle2020 said:


> and the point of F@H is what? i know to help find cures to diseases by donating computing power, but do WE get anything out of it? not to sound selfish



God forbid, but if 20 years later you're diagnosed with a cancer and they tell you there's an easy cure, chances are that the cure was devised from the data provided by the F@H project, without which your cancer cure could/would have been many-fold expensive/time-consuming/higher failure rate.


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## bill_d (May 27, 2008)

and you think if/when they crue cancer they won't charge out the @$$ for it anyway


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## btarunr (May 27, 2008)

bill_d said:


> and you think if/when they crue cancer they won't charge out the @$$ for it anyway



They will but having a cure is better than not having a cure at all? You really wouldn't want to go through chemotherapy, trust me.


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## TheGuruStud (May 27, 2008)

btarunr said:


> They will but having a cure is better than not having a cure at all? You really wouldn't want to go through chemotherapy, trust me.



Yeah, you might as well let the cancer take you, it would be far less painful.


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## xtremeownage (May 29, 2008)

This comes to show just what in god names Nvidia has in its secret labs.. Bet u they even have a 55nm prototype with GDDR 4 or 5 memory and faster clock rates. It will be a while before we see nvdia use GDDR5 believe me because unlike Ati they know how to utilise the power of current technology. Thats why they havent even shrank to 55nm,,they still enjoy playing at 65nm.
how much folding does a 3870X2 do?9800GX2? then only can we calculate the actuall percentage increase over the previous high end  cards


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## Steevo (May 29, 2008)

Some of the clients handed out to my 3870 only took a hour to do. Then my nfarce chipset shit out. So a new used crossfire board is on the way. Ebay baby.


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## imperialreign (May 29, 2008)

btarunr said:


> They will but having a cure is better than not having a cure at all? You really wouldn't want to go through chemotherapy, trust me.



I can say from experience that no one would want to go through chemo or radiation therapy - I wouldn't even wish it upon my enemies.  It was absolutely horrible, and probably one of the worst forms of medical treatment in existance.


That's why I'm more than willing to help out with F@H - whatever information we help report back would help us find cures for medical issues, or better cures than what we already have.




			
				bill_d said:
			
		

> and you think if/when they crue cancer they won't charge out the @$$ for it anyway



TBH, most of our medical expenses nowadays doesn't pay for the research for a cure, it goes to paying whatever the drug companies feel like charging for the medication.  Cancer patients are literally being ripped off for the treatments they have to pay for.


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## jonmcc33 (May 29, 2008)

btarunr said:


> God forbid, but if 20 years later you're diagnosed with a cancer and they tell you there's an easy cure, chances are that the cure was devised from the data provided by the F@H project, without which your cancer cure could/would have been many-fold expensive/time-consuming/higher failure rate.



Chances are that they'll never find a "cure" for cancer in your or my lifetime. That's the least of my worries at this point in my life. I have bills to pay for, including electric bills, gas bills and food bills. 

Even if diagnosed, 70% of all cancer deaths occur in countries where resources available for prevention, diagnosis and treatment of cancer are limited or nonexistent (ie not the United States). Source: World Health Oragnization 

Given my family history, there is pretty much barely any chance I will get cancer.


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## imperialreign (May 29, 2008)

jonmcc33 said:


> Chances are that they'll never find a "cure" for cancer in your or my lifetime. That's the least of my worries at this point in my life. I have bills to pay for, including electric bills, gas bills and food bills.
> 
> Even if diagnosed, 70% of all cancer deaths occur in countries where resources available for prevention, diagnosis and treatment of cancer are limited or nonexistent (ie not the United States). Source: World Health Oragnization
> 
> Given my family history, there is pretty much barely any chance I will get cancer.



not to sound pessimistic, but family history doesn't mean squat for many forms of cancer.

I'm the first member of my family with a history of cancer, and as to the form of cancer I was diagnosed with, there are no known "causes" for it.  It just springs up out of nowhere, unrelated to environment or exposure to substances, family history, poor living habits . . .

although your chances might be low - cancer can happen to anyone.  I never thought I'd be struck with it, either.


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## btarunr (May 30, 2008)

jonmcc33 said:


> Chances are that they'll never find a "cure" for cancer in your or my lifetime. That's the least of my worries at this point in my life. I have bills to pay for, including electric bills, gas bills and food bills.
> 
> Even if diagnosed, 70% of all cancer deaths occur in countries where resources available for prevention, diagnosis and treatment of cancer are limited or nonexistent (ie not the United States). Source: World Health Oragnization
> 
> Given my family history, there is pretty much barely any chance I will get cancer.



You've got easy cure and then you've got chemotherapy. Easy cure is what cancer research looks to achieve. Chemotherapy is expensive, is like an excursion to hell, and isn't guaranteed to work though is a last resort. Greedy corporations that manufacture machines and materials that are part of chemo/radiation therapies are extremely hostile towards people figuring out an easy cure. Reasons are obvious. Due to lack of funds and high rate of rejection, researchers now went large scale with F@H so they save millions on computing. What's wrong if you set your screensaver to F@H and idle time to F@H? If you're concerned about stress to the components, you can always configure F@H client to use 10~20% CPU.


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## jonmcc33 (May 30, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> not to sound pessimistic, but family history doesn't mean squat for many forms of cancer.
> 
> I'm the first member of my family with a history of cancer, and as to the form of cancer I was diagnosed with, there are no known "causes" for it.  It just springs up out of nowhere, unrelated to environment or exposure to substances, family history, poor living habits . . .
> 
> although your chances might be low - cancer can happen to anyone.  I never thought I'd be struck with it, either.



Yes but your chances increase with family history and that's a known fact. Of course lung cancer is helped along by smoking but I haven't smoked anything in my entire life. 

Of course if it happens it happens. Nothing can change it. But I'm not going to dwell on the possibility nor hope for some miracle cure by this whole F@H stuff. 

Like I said, I have bills to pay NOW and they are more important than burning away electricity for the sake of some project that has been going on for 8 years now and hasn't done shit.


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## imperialreign (May 30, 2008)

jonmcc33 said:


> Yes but your chances increase with family history and that's a known fact. Of course lung cancer is helped along by smoking but I haven't smoked anything in my entire life.
> 
> Of course if it happens it happens. Nothing can change it. But I'm not going to dwell on the possibility nor hope for some miracle cure by this whole F@H stuff.
> 
> Like I said, I have bills to pay NOW and they are more important than burning away electricity for the sake of some project that has been going on for 8 years now and hasn't done shit.



and I have bills to pay in the present as well; and although we haven't seen anything specific from the F@H project just yet, though it's years of being in operation . . . the thought that the next time around I'll have to face cancer, it'd be nice to see another form of treatment available besides chemotherapy and radiation.  As sad as it is, chemo and radiation cause cancer later in life (fighting fire with fire . . . brilliant, eh?), and it's not something I look forward to.

But if my idle processing time goes towards a project that could bring about a better understanding of cancer in general, and better methods of treatment, or aide in finding a cure for terminal diseases and otherwise, I'm more than willing to pay a few extra cents a day on the electric bills.

I guess I just take a different approach because I've been down those roads where treatment is still primitive, and medical understanding of the malignancies is still vague as well.  Sure, it might look like the project hasn't accomplished anything yet  . . . but, we (humanity) as a whole need to quit thinking of how things going on in the here and now affect us in the here and now . . .

as a famous scientist once said "Marty, you're not thinking fourth dimensionally!"


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## Rebo&Zooty (May 30, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> and I have bills to pay in the present as well; and although we haven't seen anything specific from the F@H project just yet, though it's years of being in operation . . . the thought that the next time around I'll have to face cancer, it'd be nice to see another form of treatment available besides chemotherapy and radiation.  As sad as it is, chemo and radiation cause cancer later in life (fighting fire with fire . . . brilliant, eh?), and it's not something I look forward to.
> 
> But if my idle processing time goes towards a project that could bring about a better understanding of cancer in general, and better methods of treatment, or aide in finding a cure for terminal diseases and otherwise, I'm more than willing to pay a few extra cents a day on the electric bills.
> 
> ...



this is typical western view, "hows it effect me right now" "why should i care"

Its part of why america is in the state its in, people are to short sited....

oh and also part of this is selfishness, people like jonmcc33 only think about themselves and the how it effects them in the moment, not how it may effect them later or how it could effect their familys/friends or anybody else later down the line.


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## jonmcc33 (May 30, 2008)

imperialreign said:


> and I have bills to pay in the present as well; and although we haven't seen anything specific from the F@H project just yet, though it's years of being in operation . . . the thought that the next time around I'll have to face cancer, it'd be nice to see another form of treatment available besides chemotherapy and radiation.  As sad as it is, chemo and radiation cause cancer later in life (fighting fire with fire . . . brilliant, eh?), and it's not something I look forward to.
> 
> But if my idle processing time goes towards a project that could bring about a better understanding of cancer in general, and better methods of treatment, or aide in finding a cure for terminal diseases and otherwise, I'm more than willing to pay a few extra cents a day on the electric bills.
> 
> ...



1. 8 years and nothing. It could be 50-100 more and nothing. 
2. Many people run F@H with 100% CPU utilization and that burns through power. Let's go ahead and destroy the planet because it's an unlimited resource after all. 
3. Do you really think if they _actually_ find a cure they are going to give it out? No, medical companies make massive profits from just treating diseases/problems. Seen it happen far too much in my life to believe in some miracle cure. 

Christopher Reeve spent more than 10 years hoping for a cure to his spinal cord injury and poured millions (over $65 million to be exact) into charity for stem cell research and it didn't help. 

HIV/AIDS victims have been hoping for cures since the disease was discovered in 1981. 27 years later? No cure. That's over 25 million people that have died from it! 2.5 million new HIV cases every year! 

Sorry, I guess it's okay to have hope but the F@H project is a joke in my book. 

What is the here and now? I have my family first and foremost. Gotta make sure they are clothed, fed and have a roof over their head. Then I have to pay all my bills (car, utility, internet, etc) just to make sure I can live my life happily thinking of the good things. 

Mind you that I live in Fort Myers, FL and we're pretty famous for high crime rates. I think we're 3-4 times national average? The thugs that killed NFL football player Sean Taylor were from Fort Myers. It's dead bodies every day, drugs, robbery, rape and the worst traffic I have seen in my entire life....well, next to LA that is. 

So I try to keep up on the positive things in my life instead. My daughter is finishing Kindergarten. My Pittsburgh Penguins are in the Stanley Cup Finals for the first time in 16 years. And I am not in any debt at all. So hey, I'm gonna be peachy and forget about the lingering possibility that I might die from cancer 30 years from now so I need to expend any amount of energy on finding some miracle cure.



Rebo&Zooty said:


> this is typical western view, "hows it effect me right now" "why should i care"
> 
> Its part of why america is in the state its in, people are to short sited....
> 
> oh and also part of this is selfishness, people like jonmcc33 only think about themselves and the how it effects them in the moment, not how it may effect them later or how it could effect their familys/friends or anybody else later down the line.



Sorry bud, I was in the USAF for 8 years. I served something other than myself and did so proudly. Yep, my life is all about me now. Why? I only live my life on time. I better enjoy it while it's here.

Had to LOL @ your "why American is in the state its in" line. George Bush is the reason why it's in the state that it's in. Has nothing to do with me nor anything I've ever done (or not done). 

Your statement about me being selfish is adorable! Like I said, served for 8 years in the USAF. I work day in and day out to provide for my family. Yep, I'm one selfish son of a bitch, eh? 

Cut the bull crap and don't pretend to know complete strangers on the internet there, Dr Phil. Thanks!


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## Rebo&Zooty (May 30, 2008)

jonmcc33 said:


> 1. 8 years and nothing. It could be 50-100 more and nothing.
> 2. Many people run F@H with 100% CPU utilization and that burns through power. Let's go ahead and destroy the planet because it's an unlimited resource after all.
> 3. Do you really think if they _actually_ find a cure they are going to give it out? No, medical companies make massive profits from just treating diseases/problems. Seen it happen far too much in my life to believe in some miracle cure.
> 
> ...



serving means jack shit about weather or not ur selfish, i know plenty of people who are life long millatary who are as selfish as you can get and alwase have been, to me your typical "me me me" and give excuses you dont do for others.

and george bush and his ilk are very short sighted, thats why they do what they do, its all about making a profit as quick as possable, this war is only being run the way it is because bush and his buddys want to keep it going as long as possable so they make as much off the war as possable.

in my book your just like bush, only care about whats good for you, and again your serving in the armed forces means JACK SHIT about weather or not ur a selfish, thats like saying somebody who works in fast food isnt selfish because they spend their time serving others all day, or that a doctor cant be selfish because he "helps" people all day.....


also would like to point out, if you dont like where you live because of crime rate or whatever MOVE, nobodys forcing you to stay there, nobodys making you live in such a horrible place.....


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## magibeg (May 30, 2008)

Wow people, calm down. You're hitting up arguments about george bush, the military, and the ethics of charity, because charity is essentially what folding@home is. What it comes down to is people don't have to help if they don't want to, thats where the charity part comes in. Fact of the matter is theres a seemingly unlimited number of charities and you can't help out with all of them.


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## imperialreign (May 30, 2008)

jonmcc33 said:


> 1. 8 years and nothing. It could be 50-100 more and nothing.
> 2. Many people run F@H with 100% CPU utilization and that burns through power. Let's go ahead and destroy the planet because it's an unlimited resource after all.
> 3. Do you really think if they _actually_ find a cure they are going to give it out? No, medical companies make massive profits from just treating diseases/problems. Seen it happen far too much in my life to believe in some miracle cure.



1) true - but none of us really know.  Perhaps miracle cures exist 25 years down the road, and it's also possible that they might only be 5 years out with help from F@H - we just don't know.
2) true as well, but then again, that's their prerogative - not everyone runs 100% CPU.  Asides, a good portion of power within most regions of the US has gotten away from fossil fuels, or have gone to much cleaner power production methods; contrary to what the EPA would have us believe . . .
3) yes and no - we have new and improved cures already available, but only for certain people in certain situations . ..  but, many times they are considered experimental.  Sadly, this is the case until the FDA approves the treatment for the population as a whole . . . and even more sad is the recent corruption behind the FDA that has been coming to light over the last couple of years (corruption in a government organization, who woulda thought?!!), and coupled with the rates drug companies slap on their medications, it puts many treatments far out of reach of the common man.  Why I cited chemo treatments earlier - $1200 for just one chemo treatments is absurd . . . but if you want to live, you don't have much choice, y'know?




> Christopher Reeve spent more than 10 years hoping for a cure to his spinal cord injury and poured millions (over $65 million to be exact) into charity for stem cell research and it didn't help.
> 
> HIV/AIDS victims have been hoping for cures since the disease was discovered in 1981. 27 years later? No cure. That's over 25 million people that have died from it! 2.5 million new HIV cases every year!



true as well, but the government also put a big crimp on stem cell research over the last 8 years . . . and not thanks to any concrete arguments; it had seemed all their arguments against it came from some underlying religious viewpoint.  Again, the largest oligarchy in the world, hard at work.



> Sorry, I guess it's okay to have hope but the F@H project is a joke in my book.
> 
> What is the here and now? I have my family first and foremost. Gotta make sure they are clothed, fed and have a roof over their head. Then I have to pay all my bills (car, utility, internet, etc) just to make sure I can live my life happily thinking of the good things


. 

again, it may seem that it's a joke - but does the possibility that medical advancements could come about from the project exist?  yes.  Do we know when?  no.  Could there already be advancements from this project?  yes.  Could their further advancement be held up by some organization like the FDA?  entirelly possible.

but, really, what harm is done if you only run the clients in the background on your computer while you surf the internet, listen to music or watch movies?  Would a 5%-10% leech on CPU usage really effect these activities?  In many cases, not in the least.  So, our rig would be wasting even more energy being at a near idle state, than if it were under very light load . . . just reading posts here on TPU with nothing going on in the background, your CPU is literally at idle, and when you combine in the mouse that's plugged in, the keyboard, the monitor that's turned on, etc - we're wasting energy just to read each other's posts online.  Why not at least put some of that energy to some form of good use?






> Had to LOL @ your "why American is in the state its in" line. George Bush is the reason why it's in the state that it's in. Has nothing to do with me nor anything I've ever done (or not done).



100% agreed here.  Our government's administration, combined with the mass media has lead us to where we are today, and not enough people to think for themselves.  People have become too content to take the media for gospel, and want to be spoon-fed their thoughts and ideals.  The media is just selling fear, and people are buying it.


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## erocker (May 30, 2008)

I suggest everyone immediately go back on topic.  No exceptions.


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## btarunr (May 30, 2008)

Ehm...anyone heard of *SETI@home*? Making your PC search for Aliens and stuff? That's charity too, so our following generations find another planet to deplete resources from.


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## jonmcc33 (May 30, 2008)

Rebo&Zooty said:


> serving means jack shit about weather or not ur selfish...



Okay, end of conversation with you on this. Wasted my time with you.


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## chinju (Jul 9, 2008)

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=========================================

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