# Now that W10 is out, are you a W7 / W8 refusenik?



## qubit (Jul 30, 2015)

So, are you gonna stick with W7 / W8 for as long as possible like with XP refuseniks previously, or are you gonna jump to W10?

I gotta try it out a bit more, plus how good DX12 is and how well it's supported matters significantly, too.

Let's see your votes in the poll and you can select up to three categories.


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## LightningJR (Jul 30, 2015)

I had the insider preview on my laptop and now the full build, I don't plan on going back. My desktop still has Win7 because of the SHIT drivers my keyboard uses. I had Win10 on it and couldn't get the stupid keyboard to work..... So back to Win7 until I get a better keyboard.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jul 30, 2015)

Upgrading to Windows 10 as soon as the reservation thing lets me.


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## puma99dk| (Jul 30, 2015)

I will stick with my Win 8.1 Pro until i change to Skylake platform than I will install Win 10 Pro already got the iso ready and running Win 10 Pro on my gaming laptop works fine no driver issues at all other than Clevo's airplane mode thing that don't really work bcs of shitty drivers didn't even work in 8.1 xD


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## Aquinus (Jul 30, 2015)

I've been on Windows 7 Pro for a long time and I've been happy with it. Given how 8 was a flop and 8.1 reversed a lot of the mistakes, I had a feeling that 10 was going to be an improvement. On top of that, WDDM 2.0 offers a little performance bump which I'm all for. For an upgrade, it ran really fast and has caused zero problems so far. Incredibly smooth for a Windows upgrade.

So no, I felt this was another "XP and Windows 7" like release, so I went for it.


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## Blue-Knight (Jul 30, 2015)

I consider Windows 10 a valid alternative... If I was a Windows user I would move to it.

LOL!


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## FordGT90Concept (Jul 30, 2015)

My original plan was to wait until I upgrade hardware.  No sense going through Windows 10 update if it will only be used for a few weeks or month.


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## newtekie1 (Jul 30, 2015)

For my main rig I'm sticking with Win8.1 For now. I'll probably convert over a few of my other rigs.


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## Liquid Cool (Jul 30, 2015)

I voted yes.  I'm using software that was designed for Windows XP, but will run on 7 decent enough, although... it refuses to run on 8.1 without graphical glitches, freezing etc.  It's a proprietary Technical Analysis software that was written back in 2002, but still works perfectly for my needs.  

So...my workstation and my main laptop will be sticking with Windows 7 as long as possible.  My other laptops run linux or windows 8.1 and I'll definitely upgrade one of them after I feel the kinks are out of win 10. 

Best,

Liquid Cool


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## GreiverBlade (Jul 30, 2015)

testing on the laptop (instead of 8.1) and keeping the main rig under 7 Pro for a moment until i see some more


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## turbo098 (Jul 30, 2015)

i upgraded as soon as it let me. my miix 2 11 tablet was first then my desktop. my tablet runs very well on it and i get about one more hour of battery life. the desktop updated fine but the sata ahci controller drivers needed to be reinstalled and after that all is well.


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## natr0n (Jul 30, 2015)

think I will stick it out with win10, have a few issues with audio not working on reboots. using hacked up x-fi drivers

Previously (last week)I was using windows 7 and let it update(which I never do much) then it asks to reboot boots to bsod and was no way around it.

Anyways its a very snappy OS, I did a clean install via usb


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## manofthem (Jul 30, 2015)

I had to Google "refusenik" 

Upgrading first pc now, already rebooted and is installing 10. I'm looking forward to 10


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 30, 2015)

I am going to wait it out a few months, due to several things that concern me. One, I like my Soundblaster Z sound card, and Creative is still working on drivers. The other is I am awaiting the return to manual driver updates, so I can choose manufacturer drivers, which normally work better and are newer.  At the very least, I want to see the GPU forced drivers stop first especially problems getting geforce experience to install when MS has mucked that up and it's only the latest Nvidia driver coming through(which isn't always the best one).

I'm not shrill or fanatical about it, just being practical.  At this point, there are no DX12 games, and my performance is just fine with DX11, so I can afford to wait a bit.  Even so, since I'm not planning on staying with this hardware forever, I might just buy W10 so I have a retail copy, not an upgrade tied to my current motherboard.


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## Zakin (Jul 30, 2015)

I may not totally understand if it is WDDM 2.0 doing it, but I used to casually underclock my CPU to 1.6-1.7Ghz on desktop just cause I could with minimal lag in Windows 7. Now when I do it in 10, it's still just as silky smooth, I'm really impressed with the general UI snappiness gains, it's almost as nice as when I first got a SSD years ago. (Glad that my hacked Asus STX drivers worked flawlessly between 7 to 10, so no driver worries there.)


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## 95Viper (Jul 30, 2015)

I am going to do the wait and see...
I am on the fence on this one.


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## Hillbilly (Jul 30, 2015)

I'm waiting it out for a while. The inability to turn off automatic driver updates (graphics specifically) without additional software is a big turn off for me. Also Microsoft is dropping Media Center with Windows 10. I use it a lot. I'm hoping a bunch of people hold off and gets Microsoft to cave on these issues I have with Windows 10. Probably won't happen though.


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## RealNeil (Jul 30, 2015)

I've had the preview all along and will probably run Win-10 on that PC. But for now, everything else stays on Win-7.

Once issues pop up and are resolved I'll switch.


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## johnspack (Jul 30, 2015)

Not going to vote,  I use all..   but Win7 for now will always be the host...  hopefully Win10 won't remain forever the guest.


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## Atomic77 (Jul 30, 2015)

I am staying put with windows 8.1 which came with this computer. My HP Envy 700-414 is doing really well right now I haven't even had it a year yet.


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## lilhasselhoffer (Jul 30, 2015)

...foolish question is foolish?

The thread topic is whether we refuse to update to an unproven new OS, which demonstrably needs some patching before it can be considered a viable option for everyone.  Whether people remember it or not, XP sucked in the beginning and Windows 7 only skipped the sucking phase because it was Vista 2.0 (a huge bloody nose for MS).  8.0 followed the pattern of an OS absolutely blowing chunks on release (if the #1 download for your new OS is removing the new GUI you've really managed to screw the pooch), and its next real release being much better (8.1 isn't what I'd recommend personally, but it isn't something I'd immediately remove, like 8.0).


So what you are asking is whether or not we'll be free beta testers for the next "released" MS OS.  Nope.  The whole beta program isn't something I can deal with.  Once the OS has removed the various bumps along the road (and boy does 10 still have issues to deal with), and it'd be a product I'd pay for, I'll upgrade.  Right now, it's a gamble with very little potential payoff.  Windows 7 is doing well on all of my computers, with the exception of a few laptop which still require XP.  God, Allen Bradley software sucks.


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## Frick (Jul 30, 2015)

Dunno, I haven't really used it much, but I suppose I will eventually. It would benice if I could use the Windows 7 key on another machine or in a VM for support purposes.


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## johnspack (Jul 30, 2015)

I agree with lil...  needs time.....


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## flmatter (Jul 30, 2015)

yes and no
I will keep Win7 on my desktop and install Win10 on my laptop, then after a while if I like Win10 and the drivers get better then I will upgrade to Win10 on my desktop


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## Sir B. Fannybottom (Jul 30, 2015)

Keeping 7 on my desktop, only reason I would consider upgrading to 10 would be for DX12


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## R-T-B (Jul 30, 2015)

Speaking as an early "beta tester," I have some policy and direction objections, but the OS is hardly beta quality...

8 was.  This isn't.


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## HammerON (Jul 30, 2015)

Main, cruncher and laptop will stick with Windows 7 for now.  Going to update the Venue tablet to Windows 10 as my guinea pig...


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## NC37 (Jul 30, 2015)

Laptop going first to 10 here. Only really care about DX12. But I need to check for compatibility on some old programs. Got old Elements 5.5. Refuse to update because I refuse to subscribe for any program like Elements. Bite me Adobe!

Right now it seems like it'll be the better move as nVidia is holding back on Fermi and 2.0. Since my lappy is Kepler, it should have 2.0 support first. Get to see performance on that. 

Am curious if my 8320 is going to gain any performance with 10, like AMD was gloating about months back, but the lappy has an i7 so I can get some idea from that.


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## ...PACMAN... (Jul 30, 2015)

Unfortunately, I can't run Windows 10 overclocked with my G3258 due to an integrated microcode update. I have tried it at stock (3.2Ghz) and it looks and feels like a nice smooth os. I'm going to revert back to 8.1 until I have my new Skylake build up and running at which point I shall have no issue upgrading to what looks to be, a very nice os.


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## toastem2004 (Jul 30, 2015)

I'm putting Windows 10 on my laptop tomorrow night.  I'll be keeping 8.1 on my main desktop for now, even thou I have horrible issues with my Wi-Fi cutting out if I start really utilizing it.
If it performs satisfactorily on my hp laptop I'll probably throw it on my desktop.  I got my Win 8 Pro from Microsoft for $16 right before it launched. I even snagged a free media center upgrade as well.  Not sure if I want to mess that up, it was and still is a helluva deal!


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## Sinzia (Jul 30, 2015)

I wait about a month then install it.
While there may not be any day one issues, I'd rather not deal with them. My time is becoming more and more limited to tinker with things.


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## RCoon (Jul 30, 2015)

Personally speaking, it seems a bit rushed. There are odd decisions everywhere, WiFi Sense is highly questionable, the window snapping using the Windows + Arrow keys is nice that it does quarters now, but the way it asks you EVERY DAMN TIME if you want to snap your other windows opposite gets old real fast. Display adjustments seem counter intuitive (if you accidentally remove a display, it's gone and you can't get it back unless you go into the "old" control panel). During the upgrade my NVidia drivers were half initialised so my main DisplayPort display was basically dead for 30 minutes, and my audio keeps resetting itself to 5.1 despite the fact I set it to stereo every time I log in, because I'm using stereo headphones.

Start menu seems pretty great, there are a tonne more menus to delve into. Per display DPI scaling is fantastic now, way better than even 8.1. Edge seems awesome, but I have too much synced with Chrome now so I probably won't ever use it. The whole installing Windows excersize is massively irritating, because throughout the whole process, everything useful is automated. The only parts you get control over is the constant incessant "Hey let us datamine the shit out of you. Hey let us share you wifi with everyone. Hey look at this amazing notification bubble that constantly says you have alerts when you have none. Hey if you don't want Skype that's OK... good luck finding the option to stop us from downloading stuff you don't need..."

Windows 10 would be great, if Microsoft stopped trying to force their "bright" ideas on you.


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## jboydgolfer (Jul 30, 2015)

...PACMAN... said:


> Unfortunately, I can't run Windows 10 overclocked with my G3258 due to an integrated microcode update. I have tried it at stock (3.2Ghz) and it looks and feels like a nice smooth os. I'm going to revert back to 8.1 until I have my new Skylake build up and running at which point I shall have no issue upgrading to what looks to be, a very nice os.



when you say u cant run it...how do You mean? is it glitchy, or not booting, or unstable,etc...? Im only asking because I was running a sizeable OC when i installed it, and i had Program incompatability...just curious.


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## ...PACMAN... (Jul 30, 2015)

jboydgolfer said:


> when you say u cant run it...how do You mean? is it glitchy, or not booting, or unstable,etc...? Im only asking because I was running a sizeable OC when i installed it, and i had Program incompatability...just curious.



It won't boot and won't even install if I am the slightest bit overclocked. A lot of G3258 owners have been moaning about it and it seems some i3's have had the same thing happen.

If run at stock it will install and subsequently run/boot up perfectly fine but no-one bought a G3258 to run at stock 

(interestingly it will install/boot/run fine overclocked if you only activate one core in bios but it's slow as hell)


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## CounterZeus (Jul 30, 2015)

I'll stick with 7 until a hardware upgrade forces me to do a fresh install


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## jboydgolfer (Jul 30, 2015)

...PACMAN... said:


> It won't boot and won't even install if I am the slightest bit overclocked. A lot of G3258 owners have been moaning about it and it seems some i3's have had the same thing happen.
> 
> If run at stock it will install and subsequently run/boot up perfectly fine but no-one bought a G3258 to run at stock
> 
> (interestingly it will install/boot/run fine overclocked if you only activate one core in bios but it's slow as hell)


Wow...weird , okay then, so it seems to be celeron/i3 specific then...im gonna wait to install W10 anyway. several of MY programs wouldn't work right, or @ all, and some of my hardware was rendered useless.thanks

on another note...Does anyone know if I can load a Win10 Image, and install a "dual Boot" OS? i.e. install Win10 in another HDD other than My C:\ drive? I've run through the steps...but it didnt show a option, and I didnt want to Screw up My Current 7 install.


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 30, 2015)

Interestingly, Gordon Kelly at Forbes came to the conclusion that although the core is good, W10 isn't primetime yet, and fairly lists the Pros and Cons.  Ultimately, he says it will be the best Windows ever, but that W10.1 in October is really where we should be looking, since hopefully they will have fixed and updated certain things by then, including forced driver updates.  So he's in the "wait a few months" camp. http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/07/28/microsoft-windows-10-should-you-upgrade/


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## azngreentea01 (Jul 30, 2015)

I upgrade all my desktop and laptop to windows 10 OS. So far i really like it. After a upgrade to windows 10 and let it validate. i did a refresh install and format the main drive on all my computer and it still recognize my computer and  set it to valid . 
http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/windows-10-can-be-clean-installed-during-and-after-free-upgrade


So far everything is good, Windows 10 is easy to use, light weight on boost up, it take 10 seconds on my laptop and 15 seconds on desktop. I run test on a few games (CS:go, LOL, Crysis 3, Battlefield 3-4), it really holding up with the game so far. It very smooth with no little hiccup. The Cortana search bar is fantastic. Fast at finding stuff with easy. Its also use less install space than windows 7 and 8.  Software that running in windows 7 and 8 are compatible to install in windows 10, so far i don't see any problem yet.

While windows 10 running, i notice some graphics glitch,  but disappear right away, i think nvidia need to work on the drivers to fix the issue.

For installation of windows, you dont need to wait. Just go to this site and downloads the tools. then the tool will do the update for you. 
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 30, 2015)

azngreentea01 said:


> I upgrade all my desktop and laptop to windows 10 OS. So far i really like it. After a upgrade to windows 10 and let it validate. i did a refresh install and format the main drive on all my computer and it still recognize my computer and  set it to valid .
> http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/windows-10-can-be-clean-installed-during-and-after-free-upgrade
> 
> 
> ...


 
Let us know your thoughts when the next borked Nvidia driver comes out, and you have no choice but to have it install for you, whereas prior to W10 you would have had the opportunity to find out from the community it was wonky and just not install it.


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## Ebo (Jul 30, 2015)

Just upgraded my main computer and so far everything is running smooth , no problems at all. I used the tool also and it just went perfect.

There are a work around to disable that forced driver update allready, rtwjunkie .


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## Tatty_One (Jul 30, 2015)

I will upgrade if there is a reasonable improvement, I don't do new just cause it's new so I will wait a couple of weeks, read all your feedback and then possibly take the plunge.


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## GhostRyder (Jul 30, 2015)

I am using it on all my machines, I have no problems with it and upgraded every machine in my house that had 7 or 8/8.1.

Btw if anyone is having trouble waiting on the DL to start in the line, here is the little "Bypass" to get it now.

Go to Windows Update, change the settings by clicking both check boxes under Microsoft Update and Recommended Updates.
Then Change the Important Updates Area to say "Install updates Automatically" on the drop down menu.
Next open up CMD by right clicking on it and saying "Run as Administrator"
Once CMD is opened, type this command (But do not hit enter yet) wuauclt.exe /updatenow
Next go back to the Windows update area and click "Check for Updates"
Now go back to the CMD line and hit enter
You should now be downloading Windows 10.


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## rtwjunkie (Jul 30, 2015)

@Ebo, not really.  Check out the details on the workaround. That is not a solution.  Mussells has reported how it actually works/not works, and the multitude of steps a user has to go through.


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## Random Murderer (Jul 30, 2015)

After using 8 on my mother's PC, I absolutely refused to run 8. I must say, from what I've seen and used of 10 so far, I like it, plus DX12 is a huge draw for me once it's implemented in some games. Still going to be on 7 for a while, but I'm not one to hop on a new OS as soon as it drops. I learned my lesson there with ME. Compatibility is also a concern, so I'll wait a few months at least.


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## Peter1986C (Jul 30, 2015)

I will run 10 once I can and see how it will be on this machine if it sucks I will be back to 7 Pro (after tinkering of course, if I can get Gentoo running this should be doable too).


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## Flanker (Aug 1, 2015)

Stuck with 7 because my Dell laptop dies as soon as 10 is installed.


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## TRWOV (Aug 1, 2015)

Keeping W8 on my main until I get working drivers for my floppy... so maybe a week of holding out? I'll upgrade my gaming rig right away though.


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## R-T-B (Aug 1, 2015)

TRWOV said:


> Keeping W8 on my main until I get working drivers for my floppy... so maybe a week of holding out? I'll upgrade my gaming rig right away though.



You wanna know something brutally ironic?

IDE FDD-style floppy drives still work...  including 5.25" models.


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## qubit (Aug 1, 2015)

Flanker said:


> Stuck with 7 because my Dell laptop dies as soon as 10 is installed.


Why don't you start your own thread about this and let the community help you? It's probably something like a simple driver problem, perhaps?


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## R-T-B (Aug 1, 2015)

qubit said:


> Why don't you start your own thread about this and let the community help you? It's probably something like a simple driver problem, perhaps?



Likely.  I had an older Pannasonic Toughbook that would BSOD on boot with 10.


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## AlienIsGOD (Aug 1, 2015)

i refuse to stay on 7 or 8  upgraded all 4 of my pc's and im not looking back


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## johnspack (Aug 1, 2015)

At this point all I can say is:  why ms,  why?  opensuse is looking better every day.


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## blobster21 (Aug 1, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> @Ebo, not really.  Check out the details on the workaround. That is not a solution.  Mussells has reported how it actually works/not works, and the multitude of steps a user has to go through.


@rtwjunkie: Is it the following workaround ? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930


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## Mussels (Aug 1, 2015)

I voted other.
My gaming PC obviously will need DX12, and DX9-11 titles feel smoother compared to 8.1

my non gaming systems are a whole different situation, as i hate the forced windows updates - my internet is garbage and one machine updating makes my internet unusable until its finished.


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## ypsylon (Aug 1, 2015)

Of course I'm.

No matter what I will not downgrade to W10 from W7.  Tested 3 builds in entirely closed environment and W10 is trojan-like, laughable attempt to convince me that upgrade is necessary. NT 3.51 or W2K was more interesting and ground breaking that this thing.

But then I'm not hype-DX12-must-upgrade-to-W10-gamer or member of anti-social-networking-gang. Next thing will be probably W10/Face****/T****** integrated power drill.


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## yesyesloud (Aug 1, 2015)

Nah, W10 did the trick for me.

I installed it on another partition yesterday as I couldn't wait for the notification thing.

No issues so far. Pretty happy with the performance boost. I'll never look back.


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## Hillbilly (Aug 3, 2015)

I have installed Windows 10 on my ASUS Transformer Pad T100TA, but for my media center and gaming rig I'm still holding off.


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## Norton (Aug 3, 2015)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> God, Allen Bradley software sucks



True statement is true  I have an old laptop setup with XP to deal with Koyo PLC's and some other older stuff. 

On topic- I'll likely stick with Win7 until I need 10 for something... maybe try/buy it the end of the year when I build a gaming only rig.


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## Aquinus (Aug 3, 2015)

Norton said:


> True statement is true  I have an old laptop setup with XP to deal with Koyo PLC's and some other older stuff.
> 
> On topic- I'll likely stick with Win7 until I need 10 for something... maybe try/buy it the end of the year when I build a gaming only rig.


Free upgrade is only for a limited time if I read my articles correctly. So if you wait too long, you're not going to have the option of having a free upgrade. I upgraded so I don't have to spend 200 dollars for a copy of 10 Pro, even if its not polished yet.


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## lilhasselhoffer (Aug 3, 2015)

Aquinus said:


> Free upgrade is only for a limited time if I read my articles correctly. So if you wait too long, you're not going to have the option of having a free upgrade. I upgraded so I don't have to spend 200 dollars for a copy of 10 Pro, even if its not polished yet.



During its first year of availability..
http://www.computerworld.com/articl...e-upgrade-for-many-during-its-first-year.html


Yeah, waiting for a few months seems to have very little downside.


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## Bow (Aug 3, 2015)

Going to keep my W7 at least for the next year.


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## moproblems99 (Aug 3, 2015)

I have to agree with junkie, I don't like forced upgrades of anything.  There is no compelling reason to upgrade at the moment but that could change with DX12.  So I am on the get the kinks out lists.  Not to mention I will probably just buy a copy anyway so my win 7 keys are not converted.  I may try and use one of my 8.1 Academic Alliance or Dreamspark, what ever it is now, keys.


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## Dieinafire (Aug 3, 2015)

If you're not on windows 10 you're not a gamer


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## Laughing_Beast (Aug 3, 2015)

I upgraded to Win10 from Win7 and all's ok so far. My needs are just very basic though. As is my PC.


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## Steevo (Aug 3, 2015)

After al the information about MS expecting us to pay for a OS where we are also the product being sold, the stupid kiddie interface, and no DX12 games, I will now wait until they get it sorted or until a game I want with DX12 comes out. 


Reasons to upgrade.

1) Its new.
2) 



Reasons not to upgrade.

1) Its new.
2) Already had issues.
3) No performance gain for games on PC.
4) All the BS that MS is spewing about Xbox gaming makes me want to vomit.
5) I don't care to be used for personalized data mining.
6) It may cost money to use currently free features.
7) Child like interface is clumsy.
8) Have to break parts of the OS to remove unwanted features.
9) No media center.
10) No additional features that I find relevant.


If its free you aren't the consumer, your the product.


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## Ahhzz (Aug 3, 2015)

Dieinafire said:


> If you're not on windows 10 you're not a gamer


Obvious troll is obvious. 

I'll stick with 7.1 for a while, at least another 6 months. I may spend some of the holiday break moving to 10, but I won't touch it unless I can lock it down tight and force it to work for me, not the other way around.


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## Random Murderer (Aug 3, 2015)

Dieinafire said:


> If you're not on windows 10 you're not a gamer


BAHAHAHAHA!
Oh man, that's rich.


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## Steevo (Aug 3, 2015)

Dieinafire said:


> If you're not on windows 10 you're not a gamer




All those DX12 titles out are so awesome!!!! 


Like......ummm....... there are none. And if you believe that Xbox is "gaming" well. Bag o' dicks to you.


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## lilhasselhoffer (Aug 3, 2015)

Dieinafire said:


> If you're not on windows 10 you're not a gamer



Troll or idiot?  I have a hard time telling the difference between the two.

There are no DX12 games.  Windows 10 doesn't show an immensely marked improvement on memory usage.  Windows 10 has already experienced some immensely crappy drivers from AMD and Nvidia.  



Windows 10 is for early adopters; it isn't for average consumers, gamers, or anyone who wants a smooth experience.  I'm not saying that that isn't possible, but a new OS always brings a bumpy road for some adopters.


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## eidairaman1 (Aug 4, 2015)

qubit said:


> So, are you gonna stick with W7 / W8 for as long as possible like with XP refuseniks previously, or are you gonna jump to W10?
> 
> I gotta try it out a bit more, plus how good DX12 is and how well it's supported matters significantly, too.
> 
> Let's see your votes in the poll and you can select up to three categories.



Im going to give Windows 10 a year and maybe a service pack before I move, Id like to try it on another right before I make the Jump. Windows 7 might be antiquated to the Fellow TPU members but it runs smooth as hell for me. I just fixed 2 XP computers and they are moving quick lol.


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## Warrgarbl (Aug 4, 2015)

I will wait for a while and see how Windows 10 evolves. It's likely that I will upgrade to Windows 10 when I buy a new machine or feel that there is some tangible benefit. As for my work / study laptop I'll probably skip it for quite a while since it will most likely install its bootloader and overwrite my dual boot configuration. I don't feel like dealing with that when 8.1 works fine for me.

EDIT: Oh, and Windows 8.1 just looks nicer for me. I'm not a fan of the new icon set and their refusal to color the window headers. Probably just an adjustment period, but for now I really prefer the way Windows 8.1 looks. The new "start menu" does look nice though.


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## Atomic77 (Aug 5, 2015)

Going to Windows 10 right away is like supporting the selling of aborted baby fetuses.


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## Mussels (Aug 5, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> Going to Windows 10 right away is like supporting the use of aborted baby fetuses.



Use for what? Medical stuff sure, but for table tennis not so much.


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## Ahhzz (Aug 6, 2015)

win7 pro -->  Win 10 pro for $70. 

http://flash.newegg.com/Product/9SI...nner_B3L_9SIA2KS2KX9798-_-NA-_-9SIA2KS2KX9798


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## jboydgolfer (Aug 6, 2015)

Ahhzz said:


> win7 pro -->  Win 10 pro for $70.
> 
> http://flash.newegg.com/Product/9SI...nner_B3L_9SIA2KS2KX9798-_-NA-_-9SIA2KS2KX9798


can that copy be used for another PC? i know its not supposed to be, but can it?


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## TRWOV (Aug 6, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> You wanna know something brutally ironic?
> 
> IDE FDD-style floppy drives still work...  including 5.25" models.



LOL XD

Well, I ended up using driver backup to get my USB floppy driver working. All my elegible machines are on W10 now except for the ones with the 865/875 chipsets. They didn't work alright with W8 (some hiccups here and there and W8 took aeons to load on my Conroe865PE for some reason, even on an SSD) so I'd guess W10 would perform in a similar way if not worse. Those will stay with W7.


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## Ahhzz (Aug 6, 2015)

jboydgolfer said:


> can that copy be used for another PC? i know its not supposed to be, but can it?


There's a method somewhere here.... Can't seem to locate it on search. I printed it and took it home. I'll try to check tonite. Somewhere, there's a method to transfer your OEM license to a different install version.... that might get what you need....


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## 1.61803398875 (Aug 7, 2015)

I am a Windows 7 lover. I am not going to be switching to Windows 10 any time soon.


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## jboydgolfer (Aug 7, 2015)

I've installed win 10 3 separate times now, and each time I am plagued by display driver crashes, freezes, and general shitty performance. I understand that it takes time to "work out the kinks", but I cannot justify running it in the meantime....no more than I would use a coffee cup full of holes while they were being patched up.


----------



## Mussels (Aug 7, 2015)

jboydgolfer said:


> I've installed win 10 3 separate times now, and each time I am plagued by display driver crashes, freezes, and general shitty performance. I understand that it takes time to "work out the kinks", but I cannot justify running it in the meantime....no more than I would use a coffee cup full of holes while they were being patched up.



your specs are really similar to mine, so i find it odd you're having so many issues.


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Aug 7, 2015)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> Upgrading to Windows 10 as soon as the reservation thing lets me.


Download the tool. I got it immediately. Already running Windows 10 full time. Upgrading all the computers in the house this weekend with it too.



jboydgolfer said:


> I've installed win 10 3 separate times now, and each time I am plagued by display driver crashes, freezes, and general shitty performance. I understand that it takes time to "work out the kinks", but I cannot justify running it in the meantime....no more than I would use a coffee cup full of holes while they were being patched up.





Mussels said:


> your specs are really similar to mine, so i find it odd you're having so many issues.



I blame AMD.


----------



## BarbaricSoul (Aug 7, 2015)

I plan on upgrading to 10 on my desktop after I finish my college classes in 3 weeks. Cant chance something going wrong right now.


----------



## Nordic (Aug 7, 2015)

Installed on 3/4 computers that I plan on using. The one left is my main that I use most. Will wait a few months to upgrade it.


----------



## laszlo (Aug 7, 2015)

no upgrade as 7 is mature and don't trust MS "free" upgrade....

nothing is free and must be a catch;i assume after free period ends you'll be asked to pay subscription(s) for features..

once NSA was caught in 8 with back doors provided by MS how can i trust MS on 10?;is the perfect opportunity for them to spy more giving something "free"  


http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/
http://www.techworm.net/2014/10/microsofts-windows-10-permission-watch-every-move.html


----------



## jboydgolfer (Aug 7, 2015)

Mussels said:


> your specs are really similar to mine, so i find it odd you're having so many issues.



I find it more annoying than odd personally , but after all Im the one getting the crashes. Example....NewEgg.com loading on FF caused 6 display driver crashes O_O. 99% of my crashes were AMD driver related messages....then I tried launching GPUZ stress test, and it just froze...all three times i tried it, Sims3 Pets was another one.

I was using the Win 10 AMD latest driver too. Hell, even my "shut Down" button wouldnt work in Start menu..it would just restart, It was fixed from suggestions I found on TPU, but still..

I used my Seagate Disc Wizz back-up to roll back to More stable times last night.

Im understanding though...its new, and theres things to iron out...in time im sure it'll be much better...hopefully


----------



## Mussels (Aug 7, 2015)

jboydgolfer said:


> I find it more annoying than odd personally , but after all Im the one getting the crashes. Example....NewEgg.com loading on FF caused 6 display driver crashes O_O. 99% of my crashes were AMD driver related messages....then I tried launching GPUZ stress test, and it just froze...all three times i tried it, Sims3 Pets was another one.
> 
> I was using the Win 10 AMD latest driver too. Hell, even my "shut Down" button wouldnt work in Start menu..it would just restart, It was fixed from suggestions I found on TPU, but still..
> 
> ...



maybe try a clean upgrade next time. with hardware so close to mine (i'm still on my 7970, and have 6870's in my secondary system) you'd think the experience would be similar.


----------



## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Aug 7, 2015)

laszlo said:


> no upgrade as 7 is mature and don't trust MS "free" upgrade....
> 
> nothing is free and must be a catch;i assume after free period ends you'll be asked to pay subscription(s) for features..
> 
> ...


People really need to stop with the whole subscription nonsense. Microsoft has already stated that that will *not* be the case. Why the hell do people cling on to this notion?


----------



## JunkBear (Aug 7, 2015)

Why going w10 knowing theres still bugs, the licence grant them the right to gather all you do on it and Win7 still revive old computer that lagged under vista


----------



## Vayra86 (Aug 7, 2015)

Not upgrading yet mainly because Microsoft has a sketchy policy regarding a downgrade back to 7. I have a license for 7 right now that is inherently better than what I'll get after upgrading. Going back with the same license key? Only within the month, otherwise you're stuck with 10 forever.

No fucking way.

Another point I'd make for not upgrading is the infestation of the new OS with online links and widgets. They are still pushing the ridiculous live tiles that I don't ever want or need. Once they implement a no-hassle option to turn that off entirely, I might reconsider. The whole Windows 10 idea and the 'free' upgrade for 7/8 licenses does stink a little, mainly because Microsoft is going to be trying to get you to spend money on worthless apps that are free on 7.

Most importantly though, the only real carrot for upgrading that I see is DX12, which really isn't a carrot until mid 2016 or maybe even early 2017.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 7, 2015)

I thought you can use both.. We have a HUGE thread on this at OCF...


----------



## Vayra86 (Aug 7, 2015)

EarthDog said:


> I thought you can use both.. We have a HUGE thread on this at OCF...



Users that have sent the issue to support have gotten answers that they have a month to downgrade again, beyond that period the key will be locked into W10 and its a hassle going back, at the very least.


----------



## EarthDog (Aug 7, 2015)

I will have to look at our thread again to double check. I will report back if I find different.


----------



## vega22 (Aug 7, 2015)

in no rush to beta another windows thanks.

i made that mistake with vista which was equally ground breaking.

dx12 will be nice, if any games ever use it.

steamos has more chance of being my next os if i am honest.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Aug 7, 2015)

Can't move the x58 box to Win 10 yet because the audio driver support blows.


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 10, 2015)

From the looks of it I'll be more "returnik" than "refusenik". Windows 10 is just too buggy and quirky. When it works, it works well, but when it doens't it's full of bizarre BS. I'll go back to Windows 8.1 today...


----------



## Mussels (Aug 10, 2015)

my one problem with windows 10, it waking from sleep and hibernate on its own was resolved. TeamViewer 10 wakes the PC from sleep without that being recorded in the windows logs anywhere.


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 10, 2015)

For me it's stability issues and stalling for no apparent reason. Same settings worked great in Win8.1 but here it's all down to luck...


----------



## Aquinus (Aug 10, 2015)

Mussels said:


> my one problem with windows 10, it waking from sleep and hibernate on its own was resolved. TeamViewer 10 wakes the PC from sleep without that being recorded in the windows logs anywhere.


My machine would always wake up after going to sleep in Windows 7. Window 10 seems to let my tower sleep. So while my idle is now down to 150-watt, sleeping at 6-watts is a lot better. 

The only issue I'm having is slightly reduced performance from graphical applications. I suspect it has something to do with the new WDDM 2.0 drivers. It has been stable otherwise, at least for me. No weird crashes, no BSODs, it seems to just work for me. Maybe I got lucky? My wife wants me to upgrade her laptop to Windows 10, so we'll see how that goes later in the week.


----------



## Caring1 (Aug 10, 2015)

The only issue I've come across on my Acer laptop so far is HWMonitor disappeared after the W10 upgrade.
Used the search function and there was no trace of it, so I had to download and install the exact same version again.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Aug 10, 2015)

Windows 10 makes a nice little VM when KVM is the host and using the RHEL virtual storage drivers.


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Aug 10, 2015)

I upgraded one PC and an old netbook but not my gaming/ htpc because I also use a Silicon dust HD homerun prime with a Time Warner cable card and since win 10 doesn't have MCE I have to keep a PC with Win 7 or 8.1 
I chose Win 7..


----------



## JunkBear (Aug 10, 2015)

Windows 10 is supposed to be the best of Win7 and Win8 but still too buggy. Since I dont have touch screen stuff i dont see the point to upgrade at Win8 and their tiles shit. I wait long time until Win10 get solved their drivers problems that could probably not work on my older computers anyway.


----------



## erocker (Aug 10, 2015)

I'm in the middle of reverting back to 8.1. 

Done. I'll say one thing... Both upgrading and reverting went extremely smooth.


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 10, 2015)

Yeah, but don't forget to check Disk Management. Say hello to second hidden "recovery" partition... Anyone brave enough to remove it and see if system still boots and functions fine?


----------



## LAN_deRf_HA (Aug 11, 2015)

I upgraded my main rig and customized it heavily, I'm fine with regedit and gpedit (just remember to log the changes you make) for getting the behavior I want out of it, and my transforming tablet I'm trying to keep pretty vanilla. So far I don't have any major issues and I definitely find it preferable to 8. This feels like vista vs 7 all over again where it's the little changes that make a big difference.


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Aug 11, 2015)

I really like Win10 on my office PC tbh...
It's just an AMD 7850k with the GPU clocked at 900mhz and 2.4ghz memory and a decent ssd and it handles way better on 10....
Wasn't bad on 8...but it's just a little better on 10...

Not worth it on anything else...yet


----------



## Hood (Aug 11, 2015)

I really like 8.1 (with Classic Shell), because it's much faster than 7, and in the past year I've managed to find all of it's settings and tweak them to my liking. Windows 7 feels almost as kludgy as XP to me, after using 8.1 for over a year.  Windows 10 felt almost exactly the same as 8.1, at least in my upgrade copy. I liked 10, but it had a few quirks that need time to work out. So I reverted back to 8.1 after 3 days, and of course the process borked a few programs, notably Classic Shell, which stopped working, couldnt be uninstalled or updated, and has left me using the crappy 8.1 Start Menu (which sucks because it's just a link to Metro!)  So now I'm stuck with the option of clean install 8.1 or clean install 10, just to get a working start menu!


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 11, 2015)

I frankly don't mind Win8.1 full screen start anymore. In fact I quite like it. Weird, I know...


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 11, 2015)

laszlo said:


> no upgrade as 7 is mature and don't trust MS "free" upgrade....
> 
> nothing is free and must be a catch;i assume after free period ends you'll be asked to pay subscription(s) for features..
> 
> ...



Source on the 8 backdoors?  I never heard anything like that.


----------



## johnspack (Aug 11, 2015)

Well I have still under one year or less to decide...  http://www.technobuffalo.com/2013/08/22/nsa-windows-8-exploit/   Win10 still scares me.  I see every day in here reports of upgrades gone bad and hardware issues.
I do play with several versions of it regularly in vms,  and other than annoying me with unwanted updates ect,  it works.  Still think it needs serious beta testing still.  And less backdoors.


----------



## MustSeeMelons (Aug 11, 2015)

Upgraded my main rig, went very smoothly, but there were a few hiccups here and there..
1) Had to reinstall Nvidia drivers. They were installed, but somehow my resolution was changing in random intervals.
2) Who said they fixed scaling? For me it's worse than win 8.1! Can't find a fix for this either, the 8.1 doesn't work.. Need to manually disable scaling for every app affected.
3) Seems I have some weird junk frames in the desktop sometimes. Like all white, portion white.

Otherwise I like how it looks, some of the features are welcome additions. None of my tools were broken during the udpate 
I believe, that the problems that I had could be fixed with a clean install which I will do in a few weeks. 
Was really tired of Win 7 and Win 8 still sometimes showed it's ugly side so I'm happy with win 10.


----------



## Caring1 (Aug 11, 2015)

erocker said:


> I'm in the middle of reverting back to 8.1.
> 
> Done. I'll say one thing... Both upgrading and reverting went extremely smooth.


Of all the problems people have reverting, all of them have been caused by using an image, not the built in revert feature.


----------



## erocker (Aug 11, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> Of all the problems people have reverting, all of them have been caused by using an image, not the built in revert feature.


Probably caused by people messing with the image.


----------



## HTC (Aug 12, 2015)

I enrolled for windows 10 with that GWX thingy but have since decided to wait for a while to see how it goes.

The thing is windows keeps telling me to upgrade to 10 and i keep unchecking the box for windows 10 upgrade  ... and it keeps checking it back by itself ... it's getting bloody annoying ...

Tried going to msconfig to see if i could disable the service or something but i don't see GWX there. Tried deleting it in regedit but it doesn't allow deletion nor edit. Tried deleting the GWX folder but i don't have permission ... even as system administrator ...

Does anyone have a way to remove GXW from the PC or @ least stop it from running?


----------



## Pill Monster (Aug 12, 2015)

HTC said:


> I enrolled for windows 10 with that GWX thingy but have since decided to wait for a while to see how it goes.
> 
> The thing is windows keeps telling me to upgrade to 10 and i keep unchecking the box for windows 10 upgrade  ... and it keeps checking it back by itself ... it's getting bloody annoying ...
> 
> ...


Uninstall Windows Update *KB3035583 *


----------



## Norton (Aug 12, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> Uninstall Windows Update *KB3035583 *



That worked for me. Watch out for it on future automatic updates also, the little bugger keeps trying to come back...


----------



## HTC (Aug 12, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> Uninstall Windows Update *KB3035583 *



Tried this:




 

 




Norton said:


> That worked for me. Watch out for it on future automatic updates also, the little bugger keeps trying to come back...



Not working for me


----------



## Norton (Aug 12, 2015)

HTC said:


> Tried this:
> 
> View attachment 67303 View attachment 67304
> 
> ...



Did you close it/end the process?

iirc the program can't be running when you uninstall it.


----------



## PopcornMachine (Aug 12, 2015)

Stuck with XP, hated Vista.  

Stuck with 7, hated 8.

10 is good and upgraded without issue.


----------



## MakeDeluxe (Aug 12, 2015)

I was in the Insider program for fun. After the launch of 10 I reverted back to good old Win7 because of all the handholding and stuff.

Win10 didn't really offer me anything Win7 can't already do. Dx12 will probably change my opinion but that will take a long time to arrive.


----------



## Static~Charge (Aug 12, 2015)

My lowly test machine (Intel Pentium G2020, ASRock H61M/U3S3 motherboard, 4 gigs of RAM, 160-gig hard drive) has been running Windows 10 Technical Preview since it was released. I wiped the drive, restored my Windows 7 Pro backup, then upgraded it to Windows 10 Pro. It took a little while, but it everything worked fine.

I'm going to hold off a while for upgrading my main machine (definitely through Service Release 1 in August, maybe through Service Release 2 in October). I want to see how the bugs shake out first. I am *not* thrilled about the automatic driver update feature, but already there are utilities to disable this.


----------



## Static~Charge (Aug 12, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> Yeah, but don't forget to check Disk Management. Say hello to second hidden "recovery" partition... Anyone brave enough to remove it and see if system still boots and functions fine?



Interesting. Windows 10's Disk Management shows a new 449MB partition: no drive label, no file system type, status is "Healthy (Recovery Partition)", disk usage is 100% free. GParted is a bit more informative: NTFS file system, partition is flagged "diag", 318MB are used. I understand that Microsoft doesn't want you to mess with the recovery partition, but at least they could show that it's in use....


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 12, 2015)

Supposedly that's for reverting back to Windows 8.1, but even if you remove the restoration point, this partition remains in place. Which is annoying.


----------



## Pill Monster (Aug 12, 2015)

Static~Charge said:


> Interesting. Windows 10's Disk Management shows a new 449MB partition: no drive label, no file system type, status is "Healthy (Recovery Partition)", disk usage is 100% free. GParted is a bit more informative: NTFS file system, partition is flagged "diag", 318MB are used. I understand that Microsoft doesn't want you to mess with the recovery partition, but at least they could show that it's in use....





RejZoR said:


> Supposedly that's for reverting back to Windows 8.1, but even if you remove the restoration point, this partition remains in place. Which is annoying.


Nah it's the same system reserved partition that W7 has, only bigger.

The recovery folder for reverting back to W8/W7 is on the root of your OS partition, hidden.


----------



## ShurikN (Aug 12, 2015)

Got 10 on my Asus Transformer (previously 8.1) and one on my main gaming rig (7 ult). So far no catastrophic bugs, minor ones here and there, but they go away after a restart.
Not going back to older ones, as I never have in the past 15 years. Yes Vista included.

Also I noticed a lot of performance increase (2x) in CSGO going from 7 to 10.


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 12, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> Nah it's the same system reserved partition that W7 has, only bigger.
> 
> The recovery folder for reverting back to W8/W7 is on the root of your OS partition, hidden.



Then why create another recovery partitions if there is already one for the same task?


----------



## HTC (Aug 12, 2015)

Norton said:


> Did you close it/end the process?
> 
> iirc the program can't be running when you uninstall it.



No difference: i get the same error regardless of whether or not the process is running


----------



## Pill Monster (Aug 12, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> Then why create another recovery partitions if there is already one for the same task?


It's not a recovery partition, it's the boot partition, but can hold recovery tools . The way it's used and the size depends how the OS is installed and disk type.

On legacy MBR disks a separate partition isn't required, hence the 100mb in W7 could usually be merged with the OS partition,.

But if the OS is installed in UEFI mode on a GPT it must be separated, because that partition is the "FI" part of UEFI.   Aka the interface between the OS and the motherboard/hardware..

The disk is read during post to determine the format. If UEFI the bios passes over control to the EFI system partition, then the OS is booted. .  

Also why TPM and bitlocker are such a PITA on UEFI installs. Particularly TPM.


----------



## Static~Charge (Aug 13, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> Nah it's the same system reserved partition that W7 has, only bigger.



No, it isn't the same partition as in Windows 7. Under Windows 10, my test machine still has a 100MB System Reserved partition, in addition to the 449MB unlabeled partition. System Reserved holds the boot and repair utilities. The bigger, unlabeled partition is WinRE (Windows Recovery Environment):

*What's new with WinRE for Windows 10?*

By default, if you install Windows using media created from Windows Imaging and Configuration Designer (ICD), you'll get a dedicated WinRE tools partition on both UEFI and BIOS-based devices, located immediately after the Windows partition. This allows Windows to replace and resize the partition as needed.

WinRE includes these tools:​
Automatic repair and other troubleshooting tools.
Push-button reset (Windows 10 for desktop editions, Windows 8.1, and Windows 8 only). This tool enables your users to repair their own PCs quickly while preserving their data and important customizations, without having to back up data in advance.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/Dn938364(v=VS.85).aspx​


----------



## Pill Monster (Aug 13, 2015)

Static~Charge said:


> No, it isn't the same partition as in Windows 7. Under Windows 10, my test machine still has a 100MB System Reserved partition, in addition to the 449MB unlabeled partition. System Reserved holds the boot and repair utilities. The bigger, unlabeled partition is WinRE (Windows Recovery Environment):
> 
> *What's new with WinRE for Windows 10?*
> 
> ...


You must have an OEM version then because separate Recovery partitions are only  found on preinstalled systems..  I thought he was talking about the EFI  partition which is 500mb.

Otherwise the recovery image is on the OS partition, in a hidden folder called recovery.

How did you do the install?


----------



## squeezehat (Aug 13, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> How did you do the install?



He probably did a clean install. Windows creates this layout by default.


----------



## Pill Monster (Aug 13, 2015)

squeezehat said:


> He probably did a clean install. Windows creates this layout by default.


 Can u explain then why I have never seen a Recovery Partition on any build I've ever tested since 2014? Is it maybe because it's only present on OEM  versions as I said?

Maybe this screenshot from Microsoft will help.  








Btw, welcome to my ignore list.  

Mate really, don't you have anything better to do but follow me around the internet. Jeez...


----------



## squeezehat (Aug 13, 2015)

As stated, this is the WinRE partition, and has nothing to do with the recovery partition that comes with oem computers. Try clean installing on a gpt drive... you'll notice it.


----------



## Pill Monster (Aug 13, 2015)

squeezehat said:


> As stated, this is the WinRE partition, and has nothing to do with the recovery partition that comes with oem computers. Try clean installing on a gpt drive... you'll notice it.


Winre image is keep in a hidden folder on the OS drive.  There is no separate "win.re partition."  As always you're talking out your ass Gammelhat.


Can u please stop stalking me, it's getting to the creepy stage.


----------



## Pill Monster (Aug 14, 2015)

Gammellhat, it seems I may have to man up and eat humble pie.   

The winre partition isn't usually created on W10 retail, recovery is loaded into the system partition, but a separate partition can be created  if some conditions are met on GPT disks in UEFI mode. 

One is if a system partition doesn't exist,  another is if the disk is quick formatted during install when an old partition already exists on the drive.  Another is if there is a system partition but it's too small for the wim. 


So prob doing a clean install on a MBR without formatting is the best way. Or making sure no other system partitions are on a GPT disk.   But if it's not a clean install the win re can be transferred over from upgrades.


So that was def my bad. You're still on my ignore list though


----------



## tttony (Aug 14, 2015)

I will wait, like one year or so

I really dont like the touch design of the W10


----------



## 95Viper (Aug 14, 2015)

HTC said:


> Not working for me




Try running the Windows update Troubleshooter, to see if it will fix the problem.


----------



## HTC (Aug 14, 2015)

95Viper said:


> Try running the Windows update Troubleshooter, to see if it will fix the problem.



Still can't uninstall the damn update but it seems this is preventing it from popping up: will know for sure next time i restart my system (can't right now).


----------



## micropage7 (Aug 14, 2015)

tttony said:


> I will wait, like one year or so
> 
> I really dont like the touch design of the W10


so do i
thats why i hate win 8, MS should put alternative interface for touch and for standard desktop

now, win 10 MS i think do the same again like win 8, although this OS has a potential, i dont like MS like push their customer to follow their rules like with paying for some features, that updates

i may give it some months before thinking of it as my new OS

for now im pretty happy with 7


----------



## pigulici (Aug 14, 2015)

So , even if you give off to all options for privacy, Win 10 will send all about you, even what movie you have in PC:

http://arstechnica.com/information-...ndows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/


----------



## micropage7 (Aug 14, 2015)

pigulici said:


> So , even if you give off to all options for privacy, Win 10 will send all about you, even what movie you have in PC:
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/information-...ndows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/



wow, MS just opening for "creative man" to silence it IFYKWIM


----------



## pigulici (Aug 14, 2015)

another one : "*Windows 10 will sink "pirated" software or hardware*"

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/38470-windows-10-sniffs-for-piracy


----------



## micropage7 (Aug 14, 2015)

pigulici said:


> another one : "*Windows 10 will sink "pirated" software or hardware*"
> 
> http://www.fudzilla.com/news/38470-windows-10-sniffs-for-piracy


i dont think so, anyone who use pirated OS just wanna use new OS, just OS and look at another apps that need activated by internet connection, many cracker success activate it offline and only time will tell how effective MS's steps


----------



## pigulici (Aug 14, 2015)

I see too much to not belive, what I find a bad thing, it  is that they(M$, gov, NSA, CIA...) don't cover up anymore this abuse, it even write in plain, or they don't care about our power as clients/people or the truth it so wrong and bad under the hood, that all we see now look like a joke for them, in any case we lost this round...


----------



## Static~Charge (Aug 14, 2015)

Pill Monster said:


> You must have an OEM version then because separate Recovery partitions are only  found on preinstalled systems..  I thought he was talking about the EFI  partition which is 500mb.
> 
> Otherwise the recovery image is on the OS partition, in a hidden folder called recovery.
> 
> How did you do the install?



My test machine was running Windows 7 Pro x64, retail version. I downloaded Windows 10 Pro using Microsoft's Media Creation Tool, burned it to disc, and then upgraded from there. The installer shrunk my C: partition to make room for the WinRE partition. There are now 3 partitions on the 160GB hard drive:

100MB -- System Reserved
148.47GB -- C:
449MB -- WinRE​
In Windows 7, there were only 2 partitions: System Reserved and C:. Also, the C: partition is MBR, and the boot configuration is Legacy, not UEFI.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 15, 2015)

All I know is MS is using high-pressure tactics, and I feel sorry for people not as savvy as a lot of tech-forum members.  I've gotten two popups in two days, with Microsoft telling me "Microsoft recommends Windows 10", and below it    "You only have a limited time to upgrade."  Um, technically, yes....if you can call 320-something days left "limited."


----------



## HTC (Aug 15, 2015)

HTC said:


> Still can't uninstall the damn update but it seems this is preventing it from popping up: will know for sure next time i restart my system (can't right now).



It doesn't come up in updates anymore BUT in systray, the program always nags me to upgrade ...

Still, another update just became available and, when i selected it and hit download, it states "downloading windows 10". @ least it's just what it says and not what it does: downloaded the 3.3 MB update only.


----------



## 95Viper (Aug 15, 2015)

HTC said:


> It doesn't come up in updates anymore BUT in systray, the program always nags me to upgrade ...
> 
> Still, another update just became available and, when i selected it and hit download, it states "downloading windows 10". @ least it's just what it says and not what it does: downloaded the 3.3 MB update only.



Show your hidden files and folder in the file and folder options...
On your c: drive do you have ~WS and/or a ~BT folders?


----------



## HTC (Aug 15, 2015)

95Viper said:


> Show your hidden files and folder in the file and folder options...
> On your c: drive do you have ~WS and/or a ~BT folders?



Tried uninstalling the damned update (the GWX one) with "show hidden files and folders" but it fails to uninstall ... again ... still ...

I have a "$windows.~BT" folder in C drive: what am i supposed to do with that folder? Delete it?


----------



## 95Viper (Aug 16, 2015)

HTC said:


> Tried uninstalling the damned update (the GWX one) with "show hidden files and folders" but it fails to uninstall ... again ... still ...
> 
> I have a "$windows.~BT" folder in C drive: what am i supposed to do with that folder? Delete it?



Yes, you can delete it, if you are not upgrading to 10... however, it may come back, if you can't stop the windows 10 upgrade  kb update .
That folder contains the upgrade files for Windows 10.

I found this info at MakeUseOf, "How To Get Rid of Windows 10..." article:



Spoiler






> *Remove a Windows Update, Kill the Upgrade Notification*
> The notification came via a Windows Update, so why not remove the update?
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## HTC (Aug 21, 2015)

95Viper said:


> Yes, you can delete it, if you are not upgrading to 10... however, it may come back, if you can't stop the windows 10 upgrade  kb update .
> That folder contains the upgrade files for Windows 10.
> 
> I found this info at MakeUseOf, "How To Get Rid of Windows 10..." article:



I can't uninstall the damned update: only hide the notifications. Tried deleting the GWX folder and it deletes all but 9 files, including gwx.exe ...

I kill the process with task manager and the program stops running but, several hours later, it's in the background again, confirmed by task manager ...

Is there an antivirus for this GWX thing? This behaves much like a virus IMO!!!!


----------



## P4-630 (Aug 21, 2015)

Just uninstalled the GWX notification on our windows 8.1 computers, not upgrading to windows 10


----------



## WhiteNoise (Aug 21, 2015)

Been using Windows 10 since they released the reservations and I'll not go back to 8.1 ever and I loved 8.1.


----------



## vectoravtech (Aug 22, 2015)

I will use windows 7 home premium I installed until windows comes bundled with a sx cyborg 0_o then I will upgrade. I need to see my start programs, i'm sorry.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Aug 22, 2015)

Uh, I think Windows 10 is updating AMD CCC without my consent and without warning...

...monitors going off and the like...
...lots of HDD thrashing...

Edit: 15.20.1062.1004-150803a-184226E


----------



## Ahhzz (Aug 22, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Uh, I think Windows 10 is updating AMD CCC without my consent and without warning...
> 
> ...monitors going off and the like...
> ...lots of HDD thrashing...
> ...


....

that's a known problem.... several comments in the Win10 tips on how to get it to stop that after it breaks your machine. 






Oh, and welcome to Windows 10.


----------



## Aquinus (Aug 22, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Uh, I think Windows 10 is updating AMD CCC without my consent and without warning...
> 
> ...monitors going off and the like...
> ...lots of HDD thrashing...
> ...


Windows 10 completely screwed up Catalyst for me, while it was stable, it was under-performing. It was running a new CCC with an old driver and couldn't do anything to fix it short of using a driver cleaner and installing the latest 15.7.1 drivers again. It since has worked without issue for me.

Also, your edit (package version,) still looks like it might be older than what I have installed.

```
15.20.1062.1004-150803a1-187674C
```


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 22, 2015)

vectoravtech said:


> I will use windows 7 home premium I installed until windows comes bundled with a sx cyborg 0_o then I will upgrade. I need to see my start programs, i'm sorry.



I'm pretty sure Stardock, which did such a successful Start 8, has also made a Start 10. Something to look into if you want your start menu a certain way.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Aug 22, 2015)

Ahhzz said:


> ....
> 
> that's a known problem.... several comments in the Win10 tips on how to get it to stop that after it breaks your machine.


It works fine, I just didn't expect my monitors to black out and do all those update shenanigans while I'm using it and without warning.




Aquinus said:


> Also, your edit (package version,) still looks like it might be older than what I have installed.
> 
> ```
> 15.20.1062.1004-150803a1-187674C
> ```


Pretty sure only the first four parts matter (which match).  So it didn't upgrade?  It just uninstalled and reinstalled the same thing?  That's an exercise in futility.

That said, I think AMD is to blame for it more so than Microsoft.  Microsoft pushes out whatever AMD gives to them.


----------



## Ahhzz (Aug 23, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> It works fine, I just didn't expect my monitors to black out and do all those update shenanigans while I'm using it and without warning.
> 
> 
> 
> ....




Maybe it's just what I expect from a computer "working fine", but that's not my definition of "works fine". "Works fine" to me, means my monitors don't go black, and self-update while I'm using them. Now, my Windows 7 Ult machine "Works fine" under my definition, leaving it on for weeks at a time, and under your definition, I'd be charging an hourly rate for that machine "working fine".


----------



## AsRock (Aug 23, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> Yeah, but don't forget to check Disk Management. Say hello to second hidden "recovery" partition... Anyone brave enough to remove it and see if system still boots and functions fine?



Did that today with a AMD APU laptop went perfectly fine, partition was still usable, went from win7 to win10 back to win7 and reinstalled after that.

If you mean the recovery in win10 done that too backs up desktop items and user folder so if you have teamspeak or such stuff you want to keep you better back up whats in the roaming folder as nothing gets saved from the appdata folder.

Anyways going back to Win7 sick to death with the long ass pause while cold booting, Not had that issue with win7 going back to that.

One thing bothers me though due to being 23 days in now on that 30 days and say i revert back right now, would that mean i have 7 days to decide if i try win10 again or will it reset .

Other reason why i am going back is that there is no parental controls unless you sign in,  like wtf they thinking asking you to give minors email addresses and shit.

The other i still think Windows firewall sucks balls compared to what i normally use.


----------



## theonedub (Aug 23, 2015)

I've been noticing some weird oddities- WiFi signal dropping out completely, inability to open anything in the notification panel unless I click the start menu first, random lag when typing in Chrome, FF, and even Windows Explorer windows, forced reboots for updates even if I've scheduled them for later, slow boot, and the list goes on. 

Think I might be better served moving back down to 8.1


----------



## xkm1948 (Aug 23, 2015)

Starting off was great with Windows 10. My old win7 installation was full of bloatware so the upgrade did not work. So I did a clean install of 7, upgraded it to 10 using DVD and then did a clean install of 10. It was nice and smooth for about 3 days and then all hell broke loose. Constant BSOD, especially during boot up. Turns out the drivers I downloaded from ASUS website was not very good. So I did another wipe and start a fresh 10. This time I paid extra attention to what driver I install and so far I have been crashing free. Another thing is the sneaky "fast startup" option. It sort of puts your computer into a hybrid hibernation mode. Although it may be good for some people, it was crashing my PC almost every single boot. Disabled that along with hybrid sleep and now I am finally BSOD free!

I am totally regretting my decision of upgrading to 10. Too many bugs, too many driver issues. And in terms of performance it is not that great after all. The metro gui still looks like shit to me.


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 23, 2015)

Also, the reverting back to Windows 8.1 doesn't revert it to a state that you had before. It just reverts the OS and deletes ALL the changes you have made prior upgrade point. It's not really a backup of old state, it just reverts the OS. Be aware of that!


----------



## NC37 (Aug 23, 2015)

Was going to upgrade right away at least on one machine but W10 horror stories are outweighing the desire to do it. Between drivers destroying laptop screens to privacy issues up the wazoo...frankly I might just hold off. DX12 was the main feature I would have updated for but if there is no benefit without games having to be coded for it, then I don't need to update. Wasn't expecting massive improvements but was hoping on some minor increases. Specially after all the buzz about AMD hardware getting buffs in the CPU area. But so far, no one has done any benches of AMD CPUs in 10 to test it.


----------



## Aquinus (Aug 23, 2015)

NC37 said:


> Was going to upgrade right away at least on one machine but W10 horror stories are outweighing the desire to do it. Between drivers destroying laptop screens to privacy issues up the wazoo...frankly I might just hold off. DX12 was the main feature I would have updated for but if there is no benefit without games having to be coded for it, then I don't need to update. Wasn't expecting massive improvements but was hoping on some minor increases. Specially after all the buzz about AMD hardware getting buffs in the CPU area. But so far, no one has done any benches of AMD CPUs in 10 to test it.


I think a lot of issues are stemming out of how Windows upgrades your machine. I have to say, it didn't do a good job upgrading my display drivers and there are a number of applications that didn't come over in the upgrade but, after cleaning out display drivers, everything worked fine. I personally was expecting the upgrade to go a lot worse so I was expecting to do a clean install right after doing it. That wasn't really the case, at least for me. Assuming people with laptops have switchable graphics, it's possible the upgrade is borking that up. My wife wants to upgrade her laptop that has a HD 4000 and a M265X in it, so maybe I'll take a gamble with her laptop and find out... after backing it up. 

Windows 10 itself really isn't bad once it's working. I've found it to be a worth successor to 7 when the upgrade isn't busy borking up your machine.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 23, 2015)

So, @AsRock i saw you and several people have complained about Windows firewall in W10, and it not being as good as what you had. What's the deal? Does W10 not allow 3rd party firewalls?


----------



## Aquinus (Aug 23, 2015)

My question would be, why isn't the router doing the task of being a firewall? The only reason to have a firewall on a client behind a NAT is to restrict *outgoing* traffic so if a virus or something is downloaded, it would limit its ability to access the network. Beyond that, it's really not doing a whole lot IMHO unless the Windows machine is directly exposed to the internet with an IP address on the internet and not behind a NAT. In other words, if you use wifi or have a router, there is a good bet your Windows firewall isn't doing a whole lot, even when it's on. Just wanted to throw that out there.


----------



## AsRock (Aug 23, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> So, @AsRock i saw you and several people have complained about Windows firewall in W10, and it not being as good as what you had. What's the deal? Does W10 not allow 3rd party firewalls?



At this time the one i use they have not done one for Windows 10 ( i just thought there would be due to the openness of win10 before release ), playing the waiting game.  I would not think MS would have the balls to actually stop others making a firewall for the OS.

I like more control over what a program can do once it's allowed to connect online. And with the one i am using i have control over website's too with cookies \ java active x and so on.


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 25, 2015)

Oh my god Windows 10 is dumb as a brick. I've specifically instructed (blocked) Win10 no to update graphic drivers because anything after Catalyst 14.12 Omega makes my E-450 APU run like crap. And guess what Windows Update installed yesterday. Yup, it auto installed god damn Catalyst 15.7 WHQL.

This pile of crap is even worse than Windows Millennium. It just is. Windows 8.1 seems like absolute perfection compared to this junk. Only reason to use Windows 10 is DX12 and even that just became a lot less interesting after seeing how self minded Win10 OS is and how much crap and problems I have with it because some prick decided to force driver updates without any chance of deselecting problematic drivers. F**king hell.

Whoever at Microsoft though that forcing driver updates on users is a smart idea should be shot on sight. It's the dumbest thing I've seen in my entire history of working with PC's. It just is.


----------



## Aquinus (Aug 25, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> Oh my god Windows 10 is dumb as a brick. I've specifically instructed (blocked) Win10 no to update graphic drivers because anything after Catalyst 14.12 Omega makes my E-450 APU run like crap. And guess what Windows Update installed yesterday. Yup, it auto installed god damn Catalyst 15.7 WHQL.
> 
> This pile of crap is even worse than Windows Millennium. It just is. Windows 8.1 seems like absolute perfection compared to this junk. Only reason to use Windows 10 is DX12 and even that just became a lot less interesting after seeing how self minded Win10 OS is and how much crap and problems I have with it because some prick decided to force driver updates without any chance of deselecting problematic drivers. F**king hell.
> 
> Whoever at Microsoft though that forcing driver updates on users is a smart idea should be shot on sight. It's the dumbest thing I've seen in my entire history of working with PC's. It just is.


You have a thread ranting about this. Downloading drivers can be disabled, and welcome to upgrading. Hate to say it @RejZoR , you made this point some time ago and I can't say I want to hear a repeat of your whining from that thread. We certainly know what your issues with Win 10 are, that's no secret to TPU.


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 25, 2015)

I HAVE DISABLED THE DRIVER UPDATING and this dumb OS updated the drivers anyway.


----------



## Aquinus (Aug 25, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> I HAVE DISABLED THE DRIVER UPDATING and this dumb OS updated the drivers anyway.


Disabled driver updating or disabled driver updates for that device? I think you did it the wrong way. 
Either way, your caps and language are telling me that you need to calm down.


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 25, 2015)

Because you don't understand. And yes, disabled driver updating as whole. And it just nonchalantly disobeyed it.


----------



## AsRock (Aug 25, 2015)

I did notice some thing kinda interesting, when i reinstalled Win7  for how ever many time's as it was at the point were you had to phone i did not have too it just activated without any bother at all.

Did not seem that it wanted to get updates until i did activate.

Some thing else i noticed my system is much faster now than it was with Win10 specially startup as i always got this delay were it seemed like it had a hard question and just sat their with the circles spinning or at the desktop like if it was playing some silly game what to load first.

So after setting up a GPT partition and telling the motherboard i have a compatible UEFI video card it was still slower lol, so screw it for now i will wait until next year to try it again and i know what the issue's are now so if i do only have 5 days left to test Win10 again i should know in a day easy .

No real DX10 games yet so no real need anyways, don't want to be a beta tester which is clearly what this is.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 25, 2015)

AsRock said:


> I did notice some thing kinda interesting, when i reinstalled Win7  for how ever many time's as it was at the point were you had to phone i did not have too it just activated without any bother at all.
> 
> Did not seem that it wanted to get updates until i did activate.
> 
> ...


 
I noticed the W7 thing the other day on a system as well.  It would not gather updates until it was activated.  Seems MS is getting more strict.


----------



## qubit (Aug 25, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> I noticed the W7 thing the other day on a system as well.  It would not gather updates until it was activated.  Seems MS is getting more strict.


I'll second that, seen it too.


----------



## yesyesloud (Aug 25, 2015)

Hey, I also had the video driver update black out and total system hang.

Two solutions:

1. Boot into safe mode, let DDU wipe your current drivers, then reboot normally. For some reason, the transition from generic drivers to the latest full video driver update works fine, only blinking the screen a couple of times instead of shooting the system into the void.

2. Block a particular driver update that your system hasn't performed yet/successfully.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 27, 2015)

So I put together a system out of mostly spare parts (Although I did purchase a CPU and motherboard) for testing W10, so as to not screw up any real systems that people actually use for you know, real stuff.  

Installed W7, SP1 and then 863 updates later (I NEVER want to do that again), I get the GWX notification.  I reserve my spot, and 24 hours later it's knocking on the door asking to download.  So far so good.

After spending overnight downloading at a monstrously slow speed, I began the install yesterday afternoon.  First of all, I think W8.1 spoiled me on how quickly an OS can install, because W10 took twice as long.  Then it hung up after the "Hi" logo.  I ctrl-alt-del to restart since it was totally locked up with a grey screen.

It gets past "Hi", and then says it's setting things up, blah, blah, blah.  Um...yeah....not so much.  Nothing happened until 30 minutes later it said "It's taking longer than we though this shit would take" (At least that's how I remember it, LOL).  Of course 30 minutes of that meant something was wrong to anyone that's instllled Windows before.  Locked up, mouse cursor frozen.  I try Ctrl Alt Del again.  No dice. Now it just grey screens.  So, I hit PC restart button..

Starting up, it tells me it failed to start properly, and would I like to fix things?  Of course I would.  I first take option to startup repair.  That didn't work.  It said there was nothing there to repair.  Ominous.  I see a revert to previous state.  Unsure of what that meant, either previous state of W10, which has still never proven it has started, or if that meant the W7 install.  So, I opted for the system refresh, which I knew from 8/8.1 meant it should enter the install cycle again.

That worked!  35 minutes later, and some 5 hours after beginning, I actually got to a desktop with W10..  I am SO glad I decided to offer a sacrificial computer to W10, because otherwise I would have been violently angry (that's right, don't need video games to make one angry .)
Then it was time for bed.  Further adventures to follow....


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 27, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> I HAVE DISABLED THE DRIVER UPDATING and this dumb OS updated the drivers anyway.



People seem to forget that the OS doesn't obey the GUI settings in regards to drivers.

It's amazing like that.  I've been screaming about it and providing hacks and workarounds since day 1.  This...  shouldn't be the case.  MS has my earned an eternal "WTF" from me on that front.

I currently run a WSUS server that filters driver updates.  Obviously, this is not ideal.


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 27, 2015)

I don't understand what was wrong with the updating in Windows 8.1 and early? It just worked. You could either have it in full auto or if you're an advanced user, per selection. I always update everything, but I prefer to review updates. If I see anything problematic on news sites, I skip those updates and I skip driver updates on driver to driver basis. I want some to update through Windows Update, but I prefer to do it myself for others with drivers from manufacturer directly. Never had a single problem with such udpating method. As soon as I hit Windows 10, all the crap from the past 15 years got condensed down to 3 days time...


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 27, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> I don't understand what was wrong with the updating in Windows 8.1 and early? It just worked. You could either have it in full auto or if you're an advanced user, per selection. I always update everything, but I prefer to review updates. If I see anything problematic on news sites, I skip those updates and I skip driver updates on driver to driver basis. I want some to update through Windows Update, but I prefer to do it myself for others with drivers from manufacturer directly. Never had a single problem with such udpating method. As soon as I hit Windows 10, all the crap from the past 15 years got condensed down to 3 days time...



It's microsoft putting on their rose tinted utopian glasses and thinking anything with a WHQL cert must have been quality tested.

This is not true for those of us who live in the real world, and it's biting everyone in the butt now.


----------



## Vayra86 (Aug 27, 2015)

WHQL... I have had consistently better luck with non-WHQL Nvidia drivers than the WHQL versions of it.

WHQL is a joke


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 27, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> It's microsoft putting on their rose tinted utopian glasses and thinking anything with a WHQL cert must have been quality tested.
> 
> This is not true for those of us who live in the real world, and it's biting everyone in the butt now.



Yeah well, Catalyst 15.7 is WHQL certified and absolutely DOESN'T work with my AMD E-450 APU even though it perfectly happily installs itself through Windows Update...


----------



## Easo (Aug 27, 2015)

I am also not exactly sure why Windows did install AMD drivers, when I already had the only Win 10 drivers they have, aka 15.7.1... 
To be fair, nothing changed, bad or good.


----------



## R-T-B (Aug 27, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> Yeah well, Catalyst 15.7 is WHQL certified and absolutely DOESN'T work with my AMD E-450 APU even though it perfectly happily installs itself through Windows Update...



Unfortunately you live in the real world.  Microsoft would suggest you move to a Windows 10 fantasy land address.  I would suggest you boycott the upgrade for now.  I only haven't because I actually kinda enjoy tinkering to fix things, but this is by no means a ready to go scenario for an OS.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 28, 2015)

Continuing from post 179, I actually played just a touch with W10 on my scarificial extra computer, but only a bit.  That 45 minutes though has done nothing to turn my dour attitude around.

After it started, I installed CoreTemp and Afterburner, then stepped away for a bit.  Returning, I find it seemingly off.  Turns out it went to sleep.  I have NEVER had a computer go to sleep unless I set up the conditions for it.  This is ridiculousness.  to add insult to injury, it was 90% unresponsive to any keyboard or mouse input.  So, Ctrl-Alt-Del, Restart.  Upon restart, it barely gets to desktop, and suddenly it refuses to do anything. Completely locked up.  Hard Restart follows.

After Hard restart, it suddenly shows during startup that it is installing updates.  Really?  Is that what locked it up?  Goes through one more restart cycle as part of the updates and then finally I can sign in and go to desktop.  Try to find power options.  I discover they are not in the control panel, but in "Settings", which I dislike, btw.  Indeed, Control Panel appears to be stripped bare...MS obviously don't want us in there.  Tough, it's in the taskbar now.  Got rid of all sleepy tendancies by the system, and then set to find out why the updates happened.  Discovered the default position is to download and install "whenever the hell we feel like, so screw you!"

Tonight, I think I will actually try to install some games, see how that works out.  Overall, on my two meetings with W10, I am more than pleased that it is running on a system I don't have any use for, or I would be really upset!


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 29, 2015)

I've discovered I can't do the fast startup.  I know it accomplishes this by hibernating in a hybrid manner, cutting startup time in half. However, I am absolutely unable to startnfrom that state without a long lockup.  So I had to disable hiberfil, just to have a pc actually start up when the button is pushed. Ridiculous!


----------



## qubit (Aug 29, 2015)

@rtwjunkie Sounds like W10 is a piece of <_insert approprate 4 letter word_> besides all that crappy privacy invading stuff it's got in it.

Guess they'll fix it in the next few months. Whatever.


----------



## pigulici (Aug 29, 2015)

I am in the moment when on my Win 7 I frozen the update service, I am more scared by updates from M$ than by a virus...good job M$...my boss, at work, frozen all win 8 and 7 pc too, he don't wanna play russian roulette on his money...


----------



## Tatty_One (Aug 29, 2015)

Still sceptical here, seeing lots of mixed feedback so I am still a "wait a while and see how things pan" Win 7 user


----------



## RejZoR (Aug 29, 2015)

I'm gonna stick with Windows 8.1 for few more months so that Microsoft fixes all the bullshit surrounding Windows 10. It has potential, but as it is currently, it's a total disaster. Mostly because of stupendous Windows Update and forced driver updates. How something as basic as this can totally ruin the WHOLE experience.

If updating crap was the same as it is on Windows 8.1, Windows 10 would be almost a total perfection. Instead they totally fucked it up. What the hell were all the insiders and testes doing for what, whole year? I just don't get it...


----------



## AsRock (Aug 29, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Continuing from post 179, I actually played just a touch with W10 on my scarificial extra computer, but only a bit.  That 45 minutes though has done nothing to turn my dour attitude around.
> 
> After it started, I installed CoreTemp and Afterburner, then stepped away for a bit.  Returning, I find it seemingly off.  Turns out it went to sleep.  I have NEVER had a computer go to sleep unless I set up the conditions for it.  This is ridiculousness.  to add insult to injury, it was 90% unresponsive to any keyboard or mouse input.  So, Ctrl-Alt-Del, Restart.  Upon restart, it barely gets to desktop, and suddenly it refuses to do anything. Completely locked up.  Hard Restart follows.
> 
> ...



Control Panel is in the right click start button.  Most if not all win7 looking places can be gotten to one way or another without much effort at all.

Although one setting did piss me of finding the old way of changing the clock format and such but the old Win7 way is there too.





rtwjunkie said:


> I've discovered I can't do the fast startup.  I know it accomplishes this by hibernating in a hybrid manner, cutting startup time in half. However, I am absolutely unable to startnfrom that state without a long lockup.  So I had to disable hiberfil, just to have a pc actually start up when the button is pushed. Ridiculous!



I tried that fast startup along with fastest startup ( ASRock mobo has 3 options ) and proved to be about the same and still win10 is slower than win7 start without all that crap lol.  I even used a GPT partition and which to me only made putting Win7 back on the system a little more annoying lol.



RejZoR said:


> I'm gonna stick with Windows 8.1 for few more months so that Microsoft fixes all the bullshit surrounding Windows 10. It has potential, but as it is currently, it's a total disaster. Mostly because of stupendous Windows Update and forced driver updates. How something as basic as this can totally ruin the WHOLE experience.
> 
> If updating crap was the same as it is on Windows 8.1, Windows 10 would be almost a total perfection. Instead they totally fucked it up. What the hell were all the insiders and testes doing for what, whole year? I just don't get it...



I decided the same thing, going wait until early next year, maybe there be a reason to then as well.

As for the AMD APU ordeal going though the same shit just not right in any way or form.


----------



## Kissamies (Aug 29, 2015)

Upgraded from 8.1 Pro to 10 Pro right after 10 was out, and there is no going back.


----------



## Vayra86 (Aug 31, 2015)

I have now decided I am waiting until the first workarounds surface for the Windows Update service and Securom-related stuff.

It will be there, eventually. Hopefully before my free upgrade is gone


----------



## micropage7 (Aug 31, 2015)

still waiting for further

its nice but i prefer wait for some months especially i have low connection, downloading many updates will be painful here


----------



## Frick (Aug 31, 2015)

I've been thinking about it, and I never ever thought I would reach the conclusion that the privacy things actually are bothering me. Especially the network sharing thing, i've been adding _optout to networks left and right because in many cases it's just such a dumb idea.

That and forced updates and drivers. I never bother with updating drivers, it's just annoying (I mostly own pretty aged stuff and never really play new games) and pointless and more hazardous than not. Forced updates in general I understand (and for most users it shouldnt make a difference as updates are good anyway) but i would like some control. What I fear most is an "appification", meaning it'll be like Android where the app devs apparently have hordes of unemployed developers with nothing to do becase that weather app can't really be more than a weather app - because it's, you know, a weather app - so they redesign the UI every few months then spend the next few months fixing bugs and when the weather app finally is a functional weather app they redesign the UI because they have hordes of restless developers.


----------



## qubit (Sep 1, 2015)

@Frick Agreed about the privacy issues. Can you please elaborate a bit on this _optout option as I want to use it, but don't quite get the context of where you use it?

"I never bother with updating drivers". Whut?!  

"What I fear most is an "appification", meaning it'll be like Android where the app devs apparently have hordes of unemployed developers with nothing to do becase that weather app can't really be more than a weather app - because it's, you know, a weather app - so they redesign the UI every few months then spend the next few months fixing bugs and when the weather app finally is a functional weather app they redesign the UI because they have hordes of restless developers."

This made my head spin and is worth a thanks all on its own. I get the point though that they're updating for update's sake rather than providing genuine functional improvements. Sounds like that "new and improved" soap powder which is just the same as the old version that they keep peddling at the supermarket...


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

qubit said:


> @rtwjunkie Sounds like W10 is a piece of <_insert approprate 4 letter word_> besides all that crappy privacy invading stuff it's got in it.
> 
> Guess they'll fix it in the next few months. Whatever.



Don't count on it.  Fast startup has been around since Windows 8 and never works well for me.

It can be turned off from control panel power options, to be fair.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Don't count on it.  Fast startup has been around since Windows 8 and never works well for me.
> 
> It can be turned off from control panel power options, to be fair.



See, my experience is totally different. Fast startup works great on two W8.1 machines, but locks up in W10.


----------



## qubit (Sep 1, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Don't count on it.  Fast startup has been around since Windows 8 and never works well for me.
> 
> It can be turned off from control panel power options, to be fair.


Yeah sure, different hardware will give different results and sometimes it's caused by chipset or mobo faults, but it can be hard to pin it down so it sounds like you're unlucky there.

My current 2700K system has a bug in it where it will blue screen at startup sometimes with W7, but always works fine when waking from sleep, which is the opposite of what you'd expect. Never quite been able to get it out of it since I built it in 2011 regardless of chipset driver updates, video driver updates, other driver updates and OS updates, so I suspect that there might be a hardware or BIOS issue there. It's annoying and hopefully my next system will work properly.

The E8500 system it replaced however was the opposite with W7: startup always ok, but waking from sleep tended to be iffy, often getting stuck with fans spinning, but a blank screen - could only get out of it with a hardware reset. Of course, the underlying OS and drivers have been patched many times between the two system so it's not quite a like for like comparison, but it still gives a rough idea.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 1, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> See, my experience is totally different. Fast startup works great on two W8.1 machines, but locks up in W10.



I have found it's usually a not-so-well coded driver issue.  If all your drivers are good AND the stars align, it will work perfectly.

If anything is amiss, it'll be a PITA.

The immaturity of W10 drivers is probably the issue here.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure I know what driver is causing me issues with it, but I can't be assed to turn it back on, even if I magically could update my aging/unsupported video capture cards drivers.


----------



## AsRock (Sep 2, 2015)

Well been back on Win7 for a while now which i thought i would wait about posting this but anyways.

While using Win10 i noticed though 2 of my SSD's which both are the Corsair GT drives were putting out Raw Error Rate contentiously when they were in use,  now it's been about a week now on Win7 and they have not done it again.

I am not talking about odd errors i am on about millions of error which the highest i noticed was 230 million of them. But ever since going back to Win7 it's not happened a single time on either drive.

Maybe it just a software issue cannot really tell but it surly gone now, the other 2 SSD's and 2 HDD's had no such issue.


----------



## Drone (Sep 2, 2015)

Any machine that can run 7 can run 10 so I don't see a point in staying on win7. But then again if you're worried about tracking stuff and telemetry you can use Linux.


----------



## Jborg (Sep 2, 2015)

Drone said:


> Any machine that can run 7 can run 10 so I don't see a point in staying on win7. But then again if you're worried about tracking stuff and telemetry you can use Linux.


 
I have not even considered "upgrading" to 10 yet.... Still using Windows 7.... If its not broken, then don't fix it.

Once DX12 is actually out and games are using it, then I might consider.... Not for a hot minute though.... So at the moment, Windows 7 is working perfectly.


----------



## Ahhzz (Sep 2, 2015)

Drone said:


> Any machine that can run 7 can run 10 so I don't see a point in staying on win7. But then again if you're worried about tracking stuff and telemetry you can use Linux.


any machine that can run 10 can run 7 so I don't see a point in moving to win10.


----------



## AsRock (Sep 2, 2015)

Drone said:


> Any machine that can run 7 can run 10 so I don't see a point in staying on win7. But then again if you're worried about tracking stuff and telemetry you can use Linux.



That's not true, but i guess that depends on how you define running.


----------



## Drone (Sep 2, 2015)

AsRock said:


> That's not true, but i guess that depends on how you define running.


Orly? Now you will say that w10 needs more resources? Whateeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever


----------



## AsRock (Sep 2, 2015)

Drone said:


> Orly? Now you will say that w10 needs more resources? Whateeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever



No not at all, win10 has teething issue's and should of not been released at it's current stat. The OS is good but it's been pushed out on people which some now will have no option to put up with as going back to there old OS will not be a option.

Although the OS should improve over time at a faster rate due to being free just that everyone ones a lab rat right now.

I uninstalled it on 3 systems as i was not as happy with the performance for one reason or another,  even took it of my X68 setup which had vista on it and it's much better with Vista than Win10 so.

Because it ran to your satisfaction don't mean it did for everyone else.

What the hell anyways got until next year and will try it then hopefully shit be much more in order.


----------



## qubit (Sep 2, 2015)

AsRock said:


> *No not at all, win10 has teething issue's and should of not been released at it's current stat. The OS is good but it's been pushed out on people which some now will have no option to put up with as going back to there old OS will not be a option.
> 
> Although the OS should improve over time at a faster rate due to being free just that everyone ones a lab rat right now.*
> 
> ...


It gets me how something that's been so extensively tested and developed before release still runs like an advanced beta.


----------



## AsRock (Sep 2, 2015)

qubit said:


> It gets me how something that's been so extensively tested and developed before release still runs like an advanced beta.



Indeed, i am hoping that people get MS to add parental controls to it without the need of a child having to have a email account to login.  Of course there are parents that don't care about this but i bet more actually are.

And i surly don't want it for our 11 year old, and what if you don't even allow say your 5 year old online as the chances are you don't and what if the system that the 5 year old is using is not online due to the fact of being a minor.


----------



## Bansaku (Sep 2, 2015)

Mussels said:


> Use for what? Medical stuff sure, but for table tennis not so much.



I think he meant it's just wrong on numerous levels.


----------



## Bansaku (Sep 2, 2015)

Unless you have an antiquated piece of legacy hardware that you simply NEED to use, then by all means hold off. However, for anyone with a modern system with an iSeries CPU should upgrade. So far out of all the systems I manage that I have upgraded for friends ranging from first gen iSeries to the latest CPU, even one with an old HD5460 and Athlon AMD CPU, two were still running W7, NONE have reported any issues, snags, or hiccups. Despite my insistence and their hesitance, they are all happy with the upgrade. So am I.

Besides, it's free! Why hold out?


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 2, 2015)

Does anyone like Windows 7 just for the unified design language alone? One thing that really bugs me about 10 is that the two-worlds (tablet + desktop) system persists from Windows 8.1. In 8, everyone complained about Tablet UI on a desktop, so MS hastily put W7's design elements in alongside it in 8.1.

It's so redundant having two ways to go to the About this Computer page, for example. You know, the one that lists your CPU, RAM and Windows activation status. So there's Control Panel...but there's also this new settings place? Why couldn't we just ditch the 2nd one and give Control Panel a facelift so that it has a design in line with the rest of Win 10? We all win: the refuseniks get Control Panel and the Metro fans get the updated look. That way we don't have to look in two places just to change a setting.

Windows 10 is Windows 8.1 with a semi-creative start menu, some CPU optimizations and DX12 support. It's fast, as was 8.1, but some parts of it are still very stupid.


----------



## fullinfusion (Sep 4, 2015)

Windows 10 blowa azz imo... I played with it for 28 says and went back to W7 just so I wouldnt loose my Key..

In months I may try again but not likely.


----------



## AsRock (Sep 4, 2015)

fullinfusion said:


> Windows 10 blowa azz imo... I played with it for 28 says and went back to W7 just so I wouldnt loose my Key..
> 
> In months I may try again but not likely.



Might want to be careful you may reinstall win10 again and lose your win7 in 2 days,  unless you know some thing i don't know.  Not sure if it resets.


----------



## tabascosauz (Sep 4, 2015)

I used to worry about how Windows 10 might take matters into its own hands and screw with my drivers. Then, I encountered 10.10 Yosemite and 10.11 El Capitan public beta and was immediately grateful for the ease of use with which Windows blesses us.

In all seriousness, I've had absolutely 0 luck with my D7000 in Windows 10. Nikon apparently doesn't care either. All of my PCs have completely lost interest in connecting properly to the DSLR after upgrading to 10; the camera is recognised but the sub folders on the SD card are empty. OS X always works just fine. It sucks, since my camera and Radeon cards work OOB on OS X but both are a very rocky experience with Windows 10.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 4, 2015)

The only thing that happens after 30 days is the old Windows 7 files are deleted.  You can still uninstall Windows 10 and reinstall Windows 7 from the original media after 30 days are up.  You'll only encounter problems with activation if the hardware between the two is radically different (i.e. you should own two separate copies of the OS).




tabascosauz said:


> In all seriousness, I've had absolutely 0 luck with my D7000 in Windows 10. Nikon apparently doesn't care either. All of my PCs have completely lost interest in connecting properly to the DSLR after upgrading to 10; the camera is recognised but the sub folders on the SD card are empty. OS X always works just fine. It sucks, since my camera and Radeon cards work OOB on OS X but both are a very rocky experience with Windows 10.


KB3081444 supposedly fixed that.  Make sure Windows is up to date.


----------



## fullinfusion (Sep 4, 2015)

AsRock said:


> Might want to be careful you may reinstall win10 again and lose your win7 in 2 days,  unless you know some thing i don't know.  Not sure if it resets.


No im not sure tbh, I only did it because W10 still has to many glitches with YouTube and Edge and such.

I have a year so Ill wait it out till M$ get there crap together....

and then yes Ill re-install it.. but till then I'm glad i saved my Key


----------



## AsRock (Sep 4, 2015)

fullinfusion said:


> No im not sure tbh, I only did it because W10 still has to many glitches with YouTube and Edge and such.
> 
> I have a year so Ill wait it out till M$ get there crap together....
> 
> and then yes Ill re-install it.. but till then* I'm glad i* *saved my Key*



Me too.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 4, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> The only thing that happens after 30 days is the old Windows 7 files are deleted.  You can still uninstall Windows 10 and reinstall Windows 7 from the original media after 30 days are up..


 
Has this actually been confirmed yet?  Has anyone had W10 more than 30 days and then tried to use their W7 key, or is this still the wild speculation that existed from the moment it was released?  Remember, Microsoft's own policy says differently, and that's why we had so many people with variance of opinions on one side or the other.  I really would like to hear from people who have accomplished the reversion after the 30 days.


----------



## birdie (Sep 4, 2015)

So far Windows 10 is a pure abomination in terms of UI, control and privacy. Perhaps, when I really need dx12, I will install Windows Server 2016.


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 4, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Has this actually been confirmed yet?  Has anyone had W10 more than 30 days and then tried to use their W7 key, or is this still the wild speculation that existed from the moment it was released?  Remember, Microsoft's own policy says differently, and that's why we had so many people with variance of opinions on one side or the other.  I really would like to hear from people who have accomplished the reversion after the 30 days.



I just used my key to reactivate Windows 8 for another 10 upgrade on my new mobo (Skylake, woo)

It worked fine.  But my license is full retail.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 4, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> I just used my key to reactivate Windows 8 for another 10 upgrade on my new mobo (Skylake, woo)
> 
> It worked fine.  But my license is full retail.



After you had 10 for 30 days?  If so, that's great news!


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 4, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> After you had 10 for 30 days?  If so, that's great news!



Yes, 30+ days.


----------



## micropage7 (Sep 5, 2015)

Ahhzz said:


> any machine that can run 10 can run 7 so I don't see a point in moving to win10.


yeah, or at least my apps still let me run it on 7, i would stay on 7

personally i dont rush move to 10, especially after the news that said 10 transfers some information to M$, and my apps until now run pretty well on 7 and i dunno if i move to 10 it will act the same, especially for kinda old apps and one more the drivers, although you can download it thru internet with my shitty connection it will be painful


----------



## Arctucas (Sep 5, 2015)

For me, Windows 7 until it is rendered in-operational.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Although, it seems to me that Microsoft has adopted a stance of;  If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is.


----------



## Go To Sleep (Sep 5, 2015)

I'm on Windows 7 Ultimate still yep haha.


----------



## HTC (Sep 5, 2015)

Arctucas said:


> Although, it seems to me that Microsoft has adopted a stance of;  If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is.



Seems so!


----------



## RandomSadness (Sep 19, 2015)

I'm happy with W8.1 so far and see no real point on going to W10. Unless a noticeable gaming improvement arrives, which I believe will not until DX12 optimized games, I will not upgrade anytime soon.


----------



## manofthem (Sep 19, 2015)

All 3 systems are running Win10 now, and it's been a pretty decent ride. My setups and needs aren't too particular so my experiences may differ from others. It's funny having a start menu back because I rarely use it now. 

What I am going to try, having just read @R-T-B's post, is to reinstall 8.1 on a separate hdd after my 30 days are up, just to check out how it goes with activation.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 19, 2015)

If anything stops working, it would be your Windows 10 install but I suspect Microsoft took a "don't be evil" approach: both will work fine.


----------



## manofthem (Sep 19, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> If anything stops working, it would be your Windows 10 install but I suspect Microsoft took a "don't be evil" approach: both will work fine.



We'll I'd hate to take a chance. I want to keep 10 because I don't have any intention of reverting. Eh, we'll see, maybe I'll just leave it be as is.


----------



## johnspack (Sep 19, 2015)

Can't believe the infection is trying to spread to win7 now:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3068708
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3022345
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3075249
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080149
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3021917
I've had to hide these.  I want to buy a gtx970 partly for dx12,  but if this is the crap I have to put up with,  forget it.
I pay for windows,  and they spy on me?  At least in 7 I can remove the infection.


----------



## laszlo (Sep 25, 2015)

M$  win10 it may be downloaded already on your pc even if you didn't "reserved" it.....through normal update.... so people check if you have hidden folder on C:  "_$Windows.~BT" _ ..... fu..k them:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/sep/11/microsoft-downloading-windows-1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...-onto-computers-without-users-permission.html
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...o-much-it-downloads-it-for-you-without-asking
http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/201...ownloading-6gb-to-your-pc-without-permission/


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 25, 2015)

Windows 10 is the worst Windows OS I've used in my entire life and I've been using Windows since 3.1. All the spying nonsense and the most retarded Windows Update I've ever seen and used made me hate this damn thing like crazy.

I've even tried the tool that supposedly gives you contro over what Windows Update installs and what not and it's the clumsiest and most retarded thing I've seen in my life. Just as retarded as entire Windows 10 itself. I'm still banging my head against desk wondering how could a corporation like Microsoft with such long history of developing good operating system screw something up so god damn badly.

Built my whole system to be DirectX 12 ready and now I can't use it because OS itself is so retarded and I'm forced to stay with Windows 8.1. Just wow Microsoft, you've managed to do the impossible...


----------



## Ahhzz (Sep 25, 2015)

Heheheh glad to see another satisfied M$ customer 


Are you using Win10 Enterprise? I thought that was the only one that would allow you to fully control the updates.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 25, 2015)

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/WindowsForBusiness/Compare

Business -> Expand all -> last category.  Pro has Windows Update + Windows Update for Businesses where Home just has Windows Update.  The only difference between Pro and Enterprise is "Long Term Servicing Branch" whatever that is.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 25, 2015)

I had Windows 10 Pro. If they fucked up normal versions so badly, imagine what kind of administration nightmare Windows 10 has to be for companies and enterprises...


----------



## AsRock (Sep 26, 2015)

laszlo said:


> M$  win10 it may be downloaded already on your pc even if you didn't "reserved" it.....through normal update.... so people check if you have hidden folder on C:  "_$Windows.~BT" _ ..... fu..k them:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/sep/11/microsoft-downloading-windows-1
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...-onto-computers-without-users-permission.html
> ...



Because you have that folder don't mean it's been downloaded.


----------



## Ahhzz (Sep 26, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/WindowsForBusiness/Compare
> 
> Business -> Expand all -> last category.  Pro has Windows Update + Windows Update for Businesses where Home just has Windows Update.  The only difference between Pro and Enterprise is "Long Term Servicing Branch" whatever that is.


Long term branch means that they are not "pushed" the updates until the corporate office approves the update. It allows for the common people to deal with teh bugs before it's pushed into a corporate/business/production environment.


----------



## flmatter (Sep 27, 2015)

I find it funny, I had installed win10 upgrade, then went and did a clean install. Nothing but problems and long boot times. I was going to install win 7 ulti but ended up installing win 7 pro. All of my issues and problems went a way. Even issues I had with my wireless card went away when I went back to win 7. My games run smoother and no random lag spikes or ping spikes. Drivers need a lot of work before win10 will be decent.  I was unhappy with win10 and happy again with win7.  My first complaint about an OS. I did not even complain about Vista when it was out.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 27, 2015)

now that i've got all my systems on 10, i changed my vote and have advice here for peeps.

1. after the initial upgrade, clean install. you can use the same USB installer for both, and keep the free licence after. this solves many driver dramas.

2. use O&O shutup 10 and the group policy tweak to disable the 'spyware' ish stuff and force windows updates back to manual.

3. all missing menus can be found via right clicking on the start menu, or searching in the start menu. its actually easier than w7/w8.

wireless drivers are definitely a big cause of problems for people with 8/10, so if you have issues focus on that first. All my wifi stuff is N150 or newer and has no dramas.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 27, 2015)

How did you force Windows Update back into manual? By manual, do you mean Windows 8.1 behavior? If I can get that back I'd totally go to Win10. But without it, no way.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 27, 2015)

Without Group Policy: Search for Windows Update settings, click on advanced settings, then select "Notify to schedule restart."

With Group Policy: Run gpedit.msc then Computer configuration, policies, Administrative templates, Windows Components, Windows Update, in the right pane choose "Configure automatic updates" to disabled.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 27, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Without Group Policy: Search for Windows Update settings, click on advanced settings, then select "Notify to schedule restart."
> 
> With Group Policy: Run gpedit.msc then Computer configuration, policies, Administrative templates, Windows Components, Windows Update, in the right pane choose "Configure automatic updates" to disabled.





RejZoR said:


> How did you force Windows Update back into manual? By manual, do you mean Windows 8.1 behavior? If I can get that back I'd totally go to Win10. But without it, no way.



the second method above. it makes it so you have to go into windows update and search before it will download them. Still cant choose which ones, but at least you can control when they download + install a lot easier.


----------



## horik (Sep 27, 2015)

Only problem i found on Win10 is with Blender, files i saved and rendered in Win7 with no problems made my PC crash and restart on Win10.
Did not want to increase V on CPU so instead i downclocked it a bit, works fine now.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 27, 2015)

Mussels said:


> the second method above. it makes it so you have to go into windows update and search before it will download them. Still cant choose which ones, but at least you can control when they download + install a lot easier.



So, still shitty. I'll pass then.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 27, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> So, still shitty. I'll pass then.



its imperfect. you can disable driver updates and other tweaks as well, but at least i can go with the 'fuck updates' route after initial install


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 27, 2015)

Microsoft isn't going to disable automatic updates because of the PEBKAC disease.  Power users that don't suffer from PEBKAC also know about Group Policy so...


----------



## R-T-B (Sep 27, 2015)

You can of course always run a WSUS server to decide what you do / don't want.  I've been doing it since release.  It IS shitty, but it does work.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 27, 2015)

Bullshit. I never said security updates should be user selectable. I personally never had issues with them and I always update them as soon as they are ready. It's the non essential stuff and drivers that piss me off. Just because AMD fucked up GPU drivers for E-450 I had to go through nightmarish days of fiddling with retarded drivers just because Windows 10 kept overriding installation of old drivers that worked and installing the broken new ones over them. If this happened on Windows 8.1 I'd have the issue resolved in 5 minutes. Instead it's still all weird even though it seems I've managed to eradicate the problematic driver for good now.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 27, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> Bullshit. I never said security updates should be user selectable. I personally never had issues with them and I always update them as soon as they are ready. It's the non essential stuff and drivers that piss me off. Just because AMD fucked up GPU drivers for E-450 I had to go through nightmarish days of fiddling with retarded drivers just because Windows 10 kept overriding installation of old drivers that worked and installing the broken new ones over them. If this happened on Windows 8.1 I'd have the issue resolved in 5 minutes. Instead it's still all weird even though it seems I've managed to eradicate the problematic driver for good now.



fortunately you CAN disable the driver stuff seperately to everything else - the stock update page just doesnt have an option for it is all. i've been ok with security updates as well, but at least let me choose a time for the download and install myself.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 27, 2015)

I've tried and it doesn't even work. The controls are under System panel (device manager basically) and despite having auto driver updating disabled it just automatically installed those shitty Catalyst 15.7 on my E-450 system.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 27, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> It's the non essential stuff and drivers that piss me off.


Drivers are security related.  "Non-essential stuff" is opt-in.



Mussels said:


> fortunately you CAN disable the driver stuff seperately to everything else - the stock update page just doesnt have an option for it is all. i've been ok with security updates as well, but at least let me choose a time for the download and install myself.


Yup, search for "Change Device Insallation Settings," set it to "No, let me choose what to do" and "Never install driver software from Windows Update."  I'm running Microsoft HD Audio driver and, since I turned that off, Windows 10 has never tried to reinstall the Realtek driver.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 27, 2015)

Graphic drivers most certainly aren't security related on any level.

As for that driver disabling, that crap doesn't work. It was so persistently re-installin that damn broken Catalyst driver I was 2cm away from throwing the god damn laptop with Windows 10 out the window (closed one!). And despite fiddling with the update control tool and forcing Omega driver (14.12) Youtube is still pretty much unplayable even at 720p. On a laptop with dedicated GPU that used to be able to decode even 4K video at slightly lower bitrates on Windows 8.1. It's absolutely absurd.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 27, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> Graphic drivers most certainly aren't security related on any level.


Their inclusion in UEFI secure boot begs to differ.  Example: Nightwatch.  There's also this PDF which explores the vulnerabilities of the various display connections:
https://media.blackhat.com/bh-eu-12/Davis/bh-eu-12-Davis-HDMI-WP.pdf



RejZoR said:


> As for that driver disabling, that crap doesn't work. It was so persistently re-installin that damn broken Catalyst driver I was 2cm away from throwing the god damn laptop with Windows 10 out the window (closed one!). And despite fiddling with the update control tool and forcing Omega driver (14.12) Youtube is still pretty much unplayable even at 720p. On a laptop with dedicated GPU that used to be able to decode even 4K video at slightly lower bitrates on Windows 8.1. It's absolutely absurd.


It should work if you disable it then uninstall Catalyst.  If you disable before uninstalling Catalyst, most likely it already started working on downloading Catalyst again.

Remember, it's AMD's fault for forgetting about E-450, not Windows fault for installing what AMD tells them to install.  I've upgraded probably 10 computers with graphics cards dating back almost a decade and I didn't encounter any problems on any of them.  Granted, none were AMD APUs.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 27, 2015)

Sure it's AMD's fault, but if Windows weren't so persistently downloading and installing it (because they apparently know it better than me or anyone else), I wouldn't even have a problem. I'd just install Cat 14.12 and be done with it. Like we've done all these god damn years and it worked perfectly fine. I blame it on Microsoft because THEY are the ones raping me with the driver, not AMD.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

You're right.  Windows Update is still installing the garbage Realtek driver.  Trying to find a solution...


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 28, 2015)

This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's not good or convenient, it's an absolute pain in the ass because the damn OS just doesn't obeys what you demand from it. It just has its stupid mind of its own.

I mean how bloody hard is it to give user these levels of auto updating:

- Fully automatic (security updates, system updates, all driver updates, misc software)
- Basic updating (security updates, system updates + critical security driver updates)
- Minimal updating (security updates + critical security driver updates)

See how I didn't even list Disabled/Off as an option? But if Windows 10 had such levels of updating control, I'd be absolutely thrilled. In my case, I'd just pick "Basic updating" and be done with it. Instead we need to hack half of the god damn OS and it still doesn't function even close to something describable as "good".


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

I found a solution but it isn't simple.  I'll create a new thread so it can be stickied/easy to find and post a link here...


----------



## Aquinus (Sep 28, 2015)

I don't know but, I have zero issues with drivers getting overridden by Windows Update. Both AMD display drivers and Realtek audio drivers.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...it-install-of-specific-windows-update.216367/



Aquinus said:


> I don't know but, I have zero issues with drivers getting overridden by Windows Update. Both AMD display drivers and Realtek audio drivers.


It's only a problem if you have a problem with the driver Windows Update retrieves.  It likely updated both of them without your knowledge nor consent.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 28, 2015)

Every single driver I've obtained from Windows Update to this date was shit. Only driver that has ever been ok was that ATK driver for motherboards. I guess it doesn't really have a huge function, otherwise I'd see problems for sure.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

Of the computers I upgraded to Windows 10, only Realtek's driver not supporting Speaker Fill is the only one I felt compelled to remove.

I'm getting the impression that the computer you tried to put Windows 10 isn't ready for Windows 10 at all.


----------



## Aquinus (Sep 28, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> It's only a problem if you have a problem with the driver Windows Update retrieves. It likely updated both of them without your knowledge nor consent.


Not since I re-installed Windows 10 several weeks ago. Same versions as what I downloaded, at least for GPU, audio, and RAID drivers.


FordGT90Concept said:


> Of the computers I upgraded to Windows 10, only Realtek's driver not supporting Speaker Fill is the only one I felt compelled to remove.


DTS Connect does the same thing as speaker fill just as well on mine. I'm not sure what's going on with your machine but it's completely different than what I've experienced.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

Aquinus said:


> Not since I re-installed Windows 10 several weeks ago. Same versions as what I downloaded, at least for GPU, audio, and RAID drivers.


Even having installed Catalyst 15.7.1, Windows Update quietly reinstalls 15.7.1 (the build number is different).  With audio, I don't want Realtek's driver so it always downloads/installs it because it is set up to prefer manufacturer driver over Microsoft generic drivers.  I doubt you'd ever have problems with RAID drivers unless the latest version causes problems.



Aquinus said:


> DTS Connect does the same thing as speaker fill just as well on mine. I'm not sure what's going on with your machine but it's completely different than what I've experienced.


Never seen DTS Connect option.  It could be ASUS versus MSI.  All OEMs customize their own Realtek drivers.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 28, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Never seen DTS Connect option.  It could be ASUS versus MSI.  All OEMs customize their own Realtek drivers.



its the same as dolby live, and designed for optical/coax digital connections. not available on all boards.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

Maybe:
Speaker Fill = analog
DTS Connect = digital

My speakers are plugged in via 3 x 3.5mm analog stereo cables.

Comparing Microsoft's generic driver to Realtek's, it's pretty clear Realtek's is a disaster.  For example, under Levels, only one shows up and it has "Balance" with the six individual channels under it.  Realtek probably has a dozen Levels sliders and some of them have "Balance" on top of that.  It's pretty ridiculous.


----------



## Aquinus (Sep 28, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Even having installed Catalyst 15.7.1, Windows Update quietly reinstalls 15.7.1 (the build number is different).  With audio, I don't want Realtek's driver so it always downloads/installs it because it is set up to prefer manufacturer driver over Microsoft generic drivers.  I doubt you'd ever have problems with RAID drivers unless the latest version causes problems.
> 
> 
> Never seen DTS Connect option.  It could be ASUS versus MSI.  All OEMs customize their own Realtek drivers.


I had DTS Connect when I tried both the ASUS provided driver and the Realtek driver off their website. I've never had speaker fill as an option with my P9X79 Deluxe. The platform I was using before it with a Phenom II 940 did though. It could be a codec specific thing, I do have an ACL898 whereas you probably have an ACL1150. I'm sure what features are available are based on the hardware you have, not simply by the driver.

Just wondering for the sake of clarification, you're using the executable installer and not using the device manager directly, right?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

Yeah.  It should also be noted that the same driver package, depending on what MSI board it is installed on, some had Nahimic support and some didn't.  I think the Realtek driver package has to look at the make/model of the motherboard to determine which features will and will not be installed.

Looking it up, your board specifically advertises "DTS Connect" as a part of "ASUS CrystalSound" (towards the bottom of the page): https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P9X79_DELUXE/

Mine specifically advertises Nahimic (one-third down): http://us.msi.com/product/mb/Z170A-GAMING-M7.html#hero-overview

I think Realtek's driver packages are huge because they literally have all the crap for all of the different variations of features each OEM implements.  In your case, DTS Connect; in my case, Nahimic.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 28, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Yeah.  It should also be noted that the same driver package, depending on what MSI board it is installed on, some had Nehimic support and some didn't.  I think the Realtek driver package has to look at the make/model of the motherboard to determine which features will and will not be installed.



yes it does. we have a thread here on TPU with modded drivers to unlock those features for all boards. don't think it plays nice with win 8.1/10, but it definitely enabled all the hidden features for people in win7.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

Because Speaker Fill doesn't work, I suspect DTS Connect wouldn't work either.  They're fundamentally the same--DTS Connect just uses licensed Dolby Digital code.

And again, it is definitely the driver.  Speaker Fill works flawlessly in Microsoft's Generic HD Audio driver.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 28, 2015)

Id be making W10 function like W7 gor most part. Pulling Search out of the Start menu to me is a waste of taskbar space lol



qubit said:


> @rtwjunkie Sounds like W10 is a piece of <_insert approprate 4 letter word_> besides all that crappy privacy invading stuff it's got in it.
> 
> Guess they'll fix it in the next few months. Whatever.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

You can easily hide it.

Right-click on taskbar -> Search -> Hidden


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 28, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> You can easily hide it.
> 
> Right-click on taskbar -> Search -> Hidden



Can it be reimplemented in the Start Menu?


----------



## Mussels (Sep 28, 2015)

eidairaman1 said:


> Can it be reimplemented in the Start Menu?



search never left the start menu - type away with it open.

the search bar is cortana related, which is seperate.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 28, 2015)

Yeah, as Mussels said:
1) click start to expand it
2) start typing and it automatically switches to the search

You can also collapse the search box to just a magnify lense so it doesn't occupy so much space.

Alternatively: right-click on start and click on Search.


----------



## Mussels (Sep 28, 2015)

disabling forced windows updates and right clicking the start menu to find the menus i use all the time basically made W10 a breeze, much less adjustment/learning curve compared to 8.0


----------



## Ahhzz (Sep 28, 2015)

Can't argue that 10 is not better than 8. Of course, still, a fresh cow pie in the face is better than 8.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 29, 2015)

Do you know what Windows Update driver updating reminds me of? Malware. This shit is so persistent as the worst malware. No matter how you remove, uninstall, hide, disable or delete that shit, it just keeps coming back. The NVIDIA drivers, the ones that auto install during first system startup. That crap kept coming back and even when I've disabled it, it just autoinstalled itself again. It's freaking retarded.

I have this shit working now, but I'm just waiting for next driver delivered through Windows Update. I bet it'll fuck it all up again. Giving Win10 a chance again, but it's again the same horrible experience as I've experienced it the first time. I just don't get Microsoft's logic.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 29, 2015)

Yeah, even with the driver hiding, it only applies to the current version of said driver.  Microsoft basically wants you to try the new driver every time it is released and hide it again if they are still problematical.  The hope is that the problems will be fixed.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 29, 2015)

It'll never be fixed for as long as they'll use this retarded updating model. Not to mention Windows Update graphics driver also installs other garbage like that 3D crap that I don't need and some multimonitor nonsense and HD Audio driver. Which I also don't need. I bet it'll ruin everything once WU gets driver that is newer than what I have. Mark my words it'll happen...


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Sep 29, 2015)

Bet on it.  When AMD pushes out a non-beta driver, Windows Update will grab it.


----------



## RejZoR (Sep 29, 2015)

I'm on NVIDIA currently but the same shit. And hell it'll be jolly with the AMD E-450 laptop. I doubt AMD will fix their broken driver that for some retarded reason doesn't support E-450 APU at all and yet Windows Update somehow manages to install it regardless (and then everything works like crap).


----------



## lemonadesoda (Oct 4, 2015)

By mistake I hit return while working in Excel. I was entering data. But at that moment the gruesome "want to update to W10?" dialog appeared and all of a sudden my PC was taken over by MS and I was forced through a W10 upgrade. I notice no difference in using W10 over W8. Perhaps W8 was a bit snappier / but that might have something to do with the maturity of the graphics drivers on W10 and nV Quadro. However, I absolutely h8 the automatic updating and rebooting of W10. What are MS thinking? That THEY can force you to take a coffee break when THEY want you to... irrespective of your own priorities, schedule and deadlines? It is grossly inappropriate. So I have downloaded W10privacy and discovered a whole host of "call home" utilities embedded into W10. I am even more angry at MS. So now I give MS the proverbial middle finger and have turned off EVERYTHING I can. There are more than 50 settings to turn off, FAR MORE than what is offered by MS/Settings/Privacy options. MS are rogues. In fact, it is making me think that OSX is no longer the greater evil. I am far more open to trying an alternative OS to Windows because of the self-interested philosophy MS has taken on-board. I don't subscribe to it. So IF i am forced down that route, I'll opt for the cheaper OSX and to send a message to MS. We dont like it. You are betraying your loyal customers who have been with you since WFW 3.11


----------



## Drone (Oct 8, 2015)

*Rant* /

I wonder if *Microsoft Catalog* has latest drivers for Intel VGA and MEI and even the latest whql Realtek HD audio why on Earth Windows Update downloads and installs *old* drivers. What the actual fuck?

/rant over


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Oct 8, 2015)

To punish people that go direct to the manufacture for updates, of course!  I really hope they change their driver policy with the November update.


----------



## Drone (Oct 8, 2015)

Eh, they don't punish anyone. It's just their system that beyond my ken. The best way to get Intel VGA and Realtek audio (at least for Windows 10) is Microsoft Catalog anyway. I never go to Intel or Realtek site


----------



## RejZoR (Oct 8, 2015)

Anyone else experiencing weird hybrid sleep behavior?

For example, when my system goes into sleep, when I want to wake it up by pressing any key on keyboard, it seems like system actually shuts down properly in that moment. I mean, the sfans wake up, they spin full speed like during bootup, but they just stay this way until system shuts down entirely. And when I want to start it up, it just cycles in lopp, doing bootup and instant shutdown.

I have to pull it flip PSU switch to off, wait a bit and fire it up. Then it wakes up from where it has gone to sleep. Absolutely moronic. Because of this crap I now just have it in always-on mode so it doesn't ever go into sleep.

Why is this stupid sleep crap never working right? I've always had stupid problems with this function on all systems going as far as back to days of WinVista.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Oct 8, 2015)

I disable sleep on all of my computers.  They're off, on, or on with monitors off.

In order for sleep states to work correctly, the motherboard, operating system, processor, and power supply have to fully support it.


----------



## RejZoR (Oct 9, 2015)

They did in the past, but now that I have a brand new spanking system, it doesn't anymore. Progress...


----------



## rtwjunkie (Oct 14, 2015)

OK, this is now something that has made me dig my feet in the ground.  Today is patch Tuesday.

It's a good thing I actually look at what updates are in the list.  None of the mandatory/important updates are checked. This is strange.  Then i go to see what optional ipdates are available.  

Only one is checked: Upgrade to W10 Home.  This has now crossed into forcing an OS on someone.  If I had not checked, as the average user doesn't, or if it was on auto-update, as M$ "recommends", it would have downloaded and installed.

That is not acceptable behavior.

Edit: I hid the update, and upon reboot to get my Office updates, they were not checked, but the optional update to W10 that I hid was checked again.  Grrrrr....


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Oct 14, 2015)

What's the KB# on it?


----------



## rtwjunkie (Oct 14, 2015)

No kb. It just says upgrade to windows 10 Home. Very sneaky, underhanded shit. And it lists the size of the download as something like 2.9 GB.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Oct 14, 2015)

Weird.  That doesn't sound like GWX.  Maybe they integrated GWX features into Windows Update so it skips "preparing for Windows 10" and goes straight to "install now."


----------



## rtwjunkie (Oct 14, 2015)

Exactly. They've gone from asking to doing it forcefully to any holdouts that aren't paying attention.


----------



## Drone (Oct 14, 2015)

Yesterday updates fixed some shit and I was kinda sorta glad but then I checked Catalog Update and ... lol it had newest Realtek LAN (version 10.5.826.2015) and Broadcom WLAN (version 7.35.308.0) but when I tried to install them Device manager said that my drivers are up to date. For fuck's sake ...


----------



## CounterZeus (Oct 14, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> Windows 10 is the worst Windows OS I've used in my entire life and I've been using Windows since 3.1. All the spying nonsense and the most retarded Windows Update I've ever seen and used made me hate this damn thing like crazy.
> 
> I've even tried the tool that supposedly gives you contro over what Windows Update installs and what not and it's the clumsiest and most retarded thing I've seen in my life. Just as retarded as entire Windows 10 itself. I'm still banging my head against desk wondering how could a corporation like Microsoft with such long history of developing good operating system screw something up so god damn badly.
> 
> Built my whole system to be DirectX 12 ready and now I can't use it because OS itself is so retarded and I'm forced to stay with Windows 8.1. Just wow Microsoft, you've managed to do the impossible...



I guess you skipped Win ME  Still have nightmares.


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Oct 14, 2015)

apart from not being able to find anything anymore it seems tolerable.

well done Microsoft.....mediocre.


----------



## Kanan (Oct 14, 2015)

I'll switch to Win 10 before it starts to cost OR for a DX12 game that I want to play. Other than that... I don't need it and some things in Win 10 are totally bad, like the extreme loss of control or spy software everywhere.


----------



## puma99dk| (Oct 14, 2015)

I am running Windows 10 Pro at home, and updated my dad's system (Q6600 cpu) to Windows 10 aswell, thinking about updating my working laptop currently running Windows 8.1 Pro.

my Clevo gaming laptop runs Windows 10 Pro too without any issues so far i am happy with Windows 10 just using Classic shell bcs it's much easier and fast for me.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Oct 14, 2015)

So has anyone else that is holding out encountered what I did yesterday (page 12-http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...a-w7-w8-refusenik.214726/page-12#post-3356757) about Windows Update now forcing the W10 download for anyone who doesn't check, at the expense of not even having the "important" update items selected?


----------



## Ahhzz (Oct 14, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> So has anyone else that is holding out encountered what I did yesterday (page 12-http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/t...a-w7-w8-refusenik.214726/page-12#post-3356757) about Windows Update now forcing the W10 download for anyone who doesn't check, at the expense of not even having the "important" update items selected?


I have one client who still insists he came back in to work after the weekend, and his computer had updated itself. Swears he never clicked to update.


edit***

http://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...ncing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-10565/

The only really useful I got from this was the ability to use a Win7 or 8 key to install a fresh copy of 10, making it easier for those who want a "clean" install. 

_"Device activation improvements: We have received a lot of feedback from Insiders on making it easier to activate Windows 10 on devices that take advantage of the free upgrade offer to genuine Windows by using existing Windows 7, Windows 8 or Windows 8.1 product keys. If you install this build of the Windows 10 Insider Preview on a PC and it doesn’t automatically activate, you can enter the product key from Windows 7, Windows 8 or Windows 8.1 used to activate the prior Windows version on the same device to activate Windows 10 by going to Settings > Update & security > Activation and selecting Change Product Key. If you do a clean install of Windows 10 by booting off the media, you can also enter the product key from prior Windows versions on qualifying devices during setup. Refer to the Insider Hub for more information on these activation improvements including requirements."_


----------



## rtwjunkie (Oct 14, 2015)

Ahhzz said:


> I have one client who still insists he came back in to work after the weekend, and his computer had updated itself. Swears he never clicked to update.


 
Well, that is entirely believable now.  Especially if someone had automatic updates enabled.  The way it was set up was the W10 upgrade "optional" update is the only one checked.  What woulld have happened is that installed, THEN Windows Update would have downloaded "important" W10 updates, negating the need for any of the previous "important" updates to be installed.

Seems they are determined to force upgrades this time around.  With this kind of action, I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly stopped any official support for 7 and 8.1.


----------



## Frick (Oct 14, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Seems they are determined to force upgrades this time around.  With this kind of action, I wouldn't be surprised if they suddenly stopped any official support for 7 and 8.1.



I'm pretty sure they can't drop support just like that. And anyway the outrage would be immense.

I restarted my office computer with installing updates before I went home today, and it has automatic updates enabled. We'll see what it's like tomorrow.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Oct 14, 2015)

Frick said:


> I'm pretty sure they can't drop support just like that. And anyway the outrage would be immense.
> 
> I restarted my office computer with installing updates before I went home today, and it has automatic updates enabled. We'll see what it's like tomorrow.


 
Yeah, I'm sure they wouldn't either, I'm just saying that kind of thing wouldn't surprise me if they did it.  Good luck to you on your updates!


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Oct 16, 2015)

Microsoft admitted the mistake: http://www.nextpowerup.com/news/24190/windows-10-auto-installing-on-some-systems/


----------



## rtwjunkie (Oct 16, 2015)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Microsoft admitted the mistake: http://www.nextpowerup.com/news/24190/windows-10-auto-installing-on-some-systems/



More like "Damn! Smart people figured out what we were up to. Now we have to change it back."


----------



## Drone (Oct 18, 2015)

/rant

Tried to install W10 on old HP G72 laptop with AMD mobility 5000. Bsoded right after the first boot. A couple of searches on HP forum revealed that crowds of people had the same bsod.

There was a clue: leave old machines alone with W7. Just disable upgrade and move on.


----------



## P4-630 (Oct 18, 2015)

Drone said:


> /rant
> 
> Tried to install W10 on old HP G72 laptop with AMD mobility 5000. Bsoded right after the first boot. A couple of searches on HP forum revealed that crowds of people had the same bsod.
> 
> There was a clue: leave old machines alone with W7. Just disable upgrade and move on.



Yeah I know.... My old windows 7 laptop's HDD would just stop spinning intermittently in windows IF it got that far, but mostly it just stopped spinning at boot.
Reinstalled windows 7 from the recovery partition and all was fine again and there was nothing wrong with the HDD.


----------



## Drone (Oct 18, 2015)

P4-630 said:


> Yeah I know.... My old windows 7 laptop's HDD would just stop spinning intermittently in windows IF it got that far, but mostly it just stopped spinning at boot.
> Reinstalled windows 7 from the recovery partition and all was fine again and there was nothing wrong with the HDD.



I believe you. It's pathetic that they offer [and even force] free upgrade for W7 machines which won't be able to run 10 anyway. OS upgrade gets worse and worse with each release.


----------



## Atomic77 (Nov 6, 2015)

I was once a refusenik but I made the jump and I like it so far.


----------



## TRWOV (Nov 22, 2015)

I even like Edge. Haven't installed Chrome... the only things I miss are the "Search xxxx with Google" and "Search this image in Google" but those are doable with a few key strokes or clicks.


----------



## RejZoR (Nov 22, 2015)

I'm starting to like WIndows 10 now. But only after TH2 release. Apparently Microsoft is only capable of making decent OS after a big update.

Windows XP needed SP2 for properly getting up to the level, Vista needed SP1 before it became good OS (yeah yeah, people still bitched, but it was a good OS). Windows 7 also needed one service pack to get shit sorted. Windows 8 needed 8.1 update and Windows 10 needed TH2 update. AMD hardware is still bitch to use on Windows 10 because of retarded forced Windows 10 driver updating but NVIDIA is great. They don't update graphic drivers and lif is SO MUCH EASIER.

My ACER Iconia W4 820 tablet is also usable with Windows 10 now, especially because context menus are now wider, making it easier to use with big fingers on a touch screen and Firefox 43 will even get a keyboard that pops up when you click inside fields. They only needed almost 1 year to do it where Chrome and Opera had it for ages. So, things are getting together slowly...


----------



## Octopuss (Nov 22, 2015)

I am somewhat happy to report I am a refusenik.
I have just installed Win10 in a Virtualbox. One minute into staring at the new design and I am ready to puke my brain and senses out. It looks like we're basically back at Windows 3.1 looks. Whoever came up with this should be run over by a truck, shot, and fed to dogs. Saying that it looks like shit is an understatement. Surely you couldn't at least maintain "aeroless" Windows 7 style (I have no idea what's wrong with Aero either, but ok, it's gone even in Win8)??

I found the N edition interesting and thought I might like to use that. I have absolutely no use for the builtin media features. No way, you can only activate N edition of Windows 10 if you own N edition of Windows 7. What the fck?! Why would you even care over there?

Then, reading from Wikipedia:
_On November 21, 2015, 10586 was pulled from both Windows Update and Media Creation Tool. A Microsoft spokesperson claimed that a decision had been made to exclusively distribute upgraded builds through Windows Update only (meaning that only the GA build 10240 may be downloaded through MCT), although the upgrade was also pulled from Windows Update for reasons unknown._
What? Why? I like to install my shit as cleanly as possible. Why would you force this on people? I like to download the most recent iso and install that. Give me a break!


----------



## Deleted member 74752 (Nov 22, 2015)

I have never allowed automatic updates on any of my pc's...period. Came home a few evenings ago to find my main laptop had somehow reverted to auto-update and Win 10 was in the mix. No amount of juggling could remove the download of Win 10 and it prevented other needed updates from ever taking place. It is still in priority as we speak and no amount of reconfiguration will defeat it.

The above fiasco is enough on it's own to discourage me from consideration of Win 10, but I did install it on another laptop earlier in the week to check it out. So far I can see no benefit for myself from the "upgrade". I did apply Classic Shell and it did make it a bit more tolerable. I am one who completely skipped Win 8 when I saw what it was...at some point I know I will have to make a decision.


----------



## RejZoR (Nov 22, 2015)

I honestly like the Windows 8.1 Start screen that goes across entire screen. I used to use RocketDock with only few things I used regularly. Now I have that on the big start. Dunno why but I just like it because it's big and clean. As soon as I can make folders and arrange stuff too much I want to cram too much into it. But here I always keep it simple.


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 22, 2015)

I love windows 10. Though I can understand some issues people have had with it and reverted back to 8 or 7. I've had some drivers issues for my GPU, but I blame NVIDIA for that.


----------



## Drone (Nov 22, 2015)

Octopuss said:


> Then, reading from Wikipedia:
> _On November 21, 2015, 10586 was pulled from both Windows Update and Media Creation Tool. A Microsoft spokesperson claimed that a decision had been made to exclusively distribute upgraded builds through Windows Update only (meaning that only the GA build 10240 may be downloaded through MCT), although the upgrade was also pulled from Windows Update for reasons unknown._
> What? Why? I like to install my shit as cleanly as possible. Why would you force this on people? I like to download the most recent iso and install that. Give me a break!



that Wikipedia is full of shit. 10586 direct iso and esd links are available, they didn't pull anything out


----------



## MxPhenom 216 (Nov 22, 2015)

Octopuss said:


> I am somewhat happy to report I am a refusenik.
> I have just installed Win10 in a Virtualbox. One minute into staring at the new design and I am ready to puke my brain and senses out. It looks like we're basically back at Windows 3.1 looks. Whoever came up with this should be run over by a truck, shot, and fed to dogs. Saying that it looks like shit is an understatement. Surely you couldn't at least maintain "aeroless" Windows 7 style (I have no idea what's wrong with Aero either, but ok, it's gone even in Win8)??
> 
> I found the N edition interesting and thought I might like to use that. I have absolutely no use for the builtin media features. No way, you can only activate N edition of Windows 10 if you own N edition of Windows 7. What the fck?! Why would you even care over there?
> ...


Thats bull shit. The newest big update for windows 10, you can get the ISO from Microsoft's website, and install it cleanly and use your 7 or 8.1 key.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Nov 22, 2015)

One of my rigs is on W10, and main rig is on W8.1. My biggest objection to W10 are the high pressure tactics employed to get people to upgrade.

Last Tuesday was another batch of updates related to .NET security patches.  However...

...even without GWX on my PC (yeah, I deleted that crap), for the second time in a month an optional, let me repeat, OPTIONAL update to download W10 was checked!!!

If I had automatic updates turned on, I would have had my system "upgraded" whether I liked it or not.

This is a cheap, slimy, and lowball tactic reserved for used car salesmen, not the behavior one expects from a world business leader.


----------



## HTC (Nov 22, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> One of my rigs is on W10, and main rig is on W8.1. My biggest objection to W10 are the high pressure tactics employed to get people to upgrade.
> 
> Last Tuesday was another batch of updates related to .NET security patches.  However...
> 
> ...



Same thing here: add to that, the important updates were all unchecked and the only thing checked was windows 10 upgrade in optional updates.

My sister's PC had the same thing: i was installing some updates in her PC, selected all the important ones (were unchecked) and hit update. After a while i got suspicious since it was taking quite a while so i cancelled and checked what was making it take so long: windows 10 upgrade was checked in optional updates, so i unchecked it, hid it and rebooted. After, i tried updating again but this time i payed close attention to the optional updates,  just to be sure: not only was windows 10 upgrade not hidden but also checked, again ...


----------



## rtwjunkie (Nov 22, 2015)

HTC said:


> Same thing here: add to that, the important updates were all unchecked and the only thing checked was windows 10 upgrade in optional updates.
> 
> My sister's PC had the same thing: i was installing some updates in her PC, selected all the important ones (were unchecked) and hit update. After a while i got suspicious since it was taking quite a while so i cancelled and checked what was making it take so long: windows 10 upgrade was checked in optional updates, so i unchecked it, hid it and rebooted. After, i tried updating again but this time i payed close attention to the optional updates,  just to be sure: not only was windows 10 upgrade not hidden but also checked, again ...



Yeah, it's underhanded and sneaky.  They apologized last month and said it was an "accident."  Wonder what would have happened had there not been any outcry?  Would they have said anything about the "accident?"

My updates were all checked and unchecked exactly as you described yours, btw.


----------



## HTC (Nov 22, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Yeah, it's underhanded and sneaky.  They apologized last month and said it was an "accident."  Wonder what would have happened had there not been any outcry?  Would they have said anything about the "accident?"
> 
> My updates were all checked an unchecked exactly as you described yours, btw.



The fact they can change a setting in your PC (from hidden unselected update to selected and not hidden) means they have some sort of access to it, be it from some form of malware embedded in their windows files or something else.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Nov 22, 2015)

Still on 8.1. Pretty sure upgrading to Win 10 will break my audio setup


----------



## qubit (Nov 22, 2015)

Easy Rhino said:


> Still on 8.1. Pretty sure upgrading to Win 10 will break my audio setup


It will break your DX8 and DX9 games for sure as I found out to my cost.

So far, my X-Fi card still works fine on the W10 generic driver, albeit without the control panel for the fancy features it supports. Still got to investigate an updated driver for this.


----------



## Easy Rhino (Nov 22, 2015)

qubit said:


> It will break your DX8 and DX9 games for sure as I found out to my cost.
> 
> So far, my X-Fi card still works fine on the W10 generic driver, albeit without the control panel for the fancy features it supports. Still got to investigate an updated driver for this.



Why is it with all of these OS upgrades it is the audio drivers that always seem to be left behind?


----------



## Mr.Scott (Nov 22, 2015)

Easy Rhino said:


> Why is it with all of these OS upgrades it is the audio drivers that always seem to be left behind?


A lot of that falls on the manufacturers.


----------



## qubit (Nov 23, 2015)

Easy Rhino said:


> Why is it with all of these OS upgrades it is the audio drivers that always seem to be left behind?


I feel yer pain, Easy.  The cynic in me would say that it's at least partly a ploy to get us to buy new sound cards in this stagnant market. However, I'm a completely trusting soul so I don't think this.



Mr.Scott said:


> A lot of that falls on the manufacturers.


I'd say it's a bit of both. Why can't the latest Windows be more compatible with previous Windows drivers?


----------



## Mr.Scott (Nov 23, 2015)

qubit said:


> Why can't the latest Windows be more compatible with previous Windows drivers?


Because then it would just be the previous Windows................with built in spyware.


----------



## qubit (Nov 23, 2015)

Mr.Scott said:


> Because then it would just be the previous Windows................with built in spyware.


No it wouldn't be the previous Windows. Agreed about the spyware.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Nov 23, 2015)

HTC said:


> The fact they can change a setting in your PC (from hidden unselected update to selected and not hidden) means they have some sort of access to it, be it from some form of malware embedded in their windows files or something else.



Here is what I have discovered today and a reliable solution to the Win 10 "upgrade" problem.

The Win 10 upgrade prompt in update window is not the actual OS...it is a installer to be used to streamline the upgrade when selected. The real problem is it also makes said upgrade nearly impossible to avoid at best and absolutely annoying in the least. Here is the culprit...search for "KB3035583" in your update history. This is the Trojan that must be deleted/blocked. Download GWX Stopper... http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/ ...run this to get rid of the nasty update. You will however have to be observant in the future as Microsoft will keep sending it back as a priority update...you must uncheck it before updating. Just my opinion, but Microsoft should be treated just like a terrorist...they had every intention and no remorse in this matter.


----------



## Mr.Scott (Nov 23, 2015)

rickss69 said:


> Just my opinion, but Microsoft should be treated just like a terrorist...they had every intention and no remorse in this matter.


It's not just your opinion.

Good to hear from you again buddy.


----------



## Mr.Scott (Nov 23, 2015)

qubit said:


> No it wouldn't be the previous Windows. Agreed about the spyware.


Oh, you're right.
 EDGE.


----------



## HTC (Nov 23, 2015)

rickss69 said:


> Here is what I have discovered today and a reliable solution to the Win 10 "upgrade" problem.
> 
> The Win 10 upgrade prompt in update window is not the actual OS...it is a installer to be used to streamline the upgrade when selected. The real problem is it also makes said upgrade nearly impossible to avoid at best and absolutely annoying in the least. Here is the culprit...search for "KB3035583" in your update history. This is the Trojan that must be deleted/blocked. Download GWX Stopper... http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/ ...run this to get rid of the nasty update. You will however have to be observant in the future as Microsoft will keep sending it back as a priority update...you must uncheck it before updating. Just my opinion, but Microsoft should be treated just like a terrorist...they had every intention and no remorse in this matter.



I don't have that update in my system: it was hard but i managed to get rid of it. My sister's PC does have it.

Still, we were BOTH affected by the update being selected, even though it's supposed to be optional, when we tried to download and install the important updates.

The fact that it's active by default and that, though we uncheck and hide it and it STILL gets itself unhidden and checked again is, IMO, a cause for concern.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Nov 23, 2015)

rickss69 said:


> Here is what I have discovered today and a reliable solution to the Win 10 "upgrade" problem.
> 
> The Win 10 upgrade prompt in update window is not the actual OS...it is a installer to be used to streamline the upgrade when selected. The real problem is it also makes said upgrade nearly impossible to avoid at best and absolutely annoying in the least. Here is the culprit...search for "KB3035583" in your update history. This is the Trojan that must be deleted/blocked. Download GWX Stopper... http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/ ...run this to get rid of the nasty update. You will however have to be observant in the future as Microsoft will keep sending it back as a priority update...you must uncheck it before updating. Just my opinion, but Microsoft should be treated just like a terrorist...they had every intention and no remorse in this matter.



I don't have the update. That's the gwx installer update you mentioned. I uninstalled it long ago. Thats my point, MS is bring slimy and underhanded and has devised new ways to get the "upgrade" out to everyone, hoping people have auto update settings.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Nov 23, 2015)

Mr.Scott said:


> It's not just your opinion.
> 
> Good to hear from you again buddy.



Hello Mr Scott...been a long time friend.


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## jboydgolfer (Nov 23, 2015)

I installed 10 last night (after making a Full backup with seagate discwizard) and all seemed fine, it even displays a message that we kept all of your files that you had before, or somethign along those lines....then i get into desktop, and 35-40% of my installed applications aren't available anylonger, evem Mozilla FF was gone. Im certain that this OS is working for others, (it must be otherwise they'd be crazy to switch to it) but EVEN if there is a fix to this, I just cant bring myself to  go through all that for what is already a precarious transition. just my two cents


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## Deleted member 74752 (Nov 23, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> I don't have the update. That's the gwx installer update you mentioned. I uninstalled it long ago. Thats my point, MS is bring slimy and underhanded and has devised new ways to get the "upgrade" out to everyone, hoping people have auto update settings.



You don't have to have your settings to Auto for this to happen...Microsoft will do that for you lol.


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## Solaris17 (Nov 23, 2015)

Mr.Scott said:


> A lot of that falls on the manufacturers.



this its not microsofts job to provide anything over basic drivers for basic devices mostly integrated.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Nov 23, 2015)

Here she is boys and girls...already pre-checked for you by Microsuck.


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## cdawall (Nov 23, 2015)

Windows 7 ultimate for me until I find a reason to swap. I like the layout of 7 and find it easy to use, I use 8.1 and 10 at work and while 10 is nicer than 8.1 in my opinion I will still use 7 until I have a reason to change, it still runs better on older hardware and I don't need 10 so why fight drivers.


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## RejZoR (Nov 23, 2015)

But a least you can still manually decide about updates. Windows 10 just shoves it down your throat with no option of any selection. You just must accept all updates or none. So dumb.


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## Frick (Nov 23, 2015)

I think you guys just suck, I don't get that update.


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## R-T-B (Nov 23, 2015)

HTC said:


> The fact they can change a setting in your PC (from hidden unselected update to selected and not hidden) means they have some sort of access to it, be it from some form of malware embedded in their windows files or something else.


More like admin rights "Windows Update."  All it takes is an installer, no backdoor beyond that needed...


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## HTC (Nov 23, 2015)

View attachment 69386 View attachment 69387 View attachment 69386 View attachment 69387


rickss69 said:


> Here she is boys and girls...already pre-checked for you by Microsuck.



That's not the one: it's windows 10 upgrade itself, with over 2.5 GB in size.

I went to check my hidden updates as well as my installed ones and discovered something interesting. Check these 2 screenies (attatch):

Notice i have that particular update both hidden AND installed ... but i checked and have no GWX file on my system ...

I also noticed i have FOUR different windows 10 upgrades under hidden updates which MAY BE why it seems that windows upgrade option keeps "checking itself", though i'm unsure of this. Still, it doesn't change the fact that microsoft is STILL trying to push this upgrade down our throats and, unless we have automatic updates off, you'll be upgraded whether you want to or not.



R-T-B said:


> More like admin rights "Windows Update."  All it takes is an installer, *no backdoor beyond that needed*...



A backdoor is a backdoor: regardless of who makes it.


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## rtwjunkie (Nov 23, 2015)

@HTC yep, the 2.5GB download of the actual W10 is what I had checked as well.  Weird thing is, there is no precursor program to bring it in.  I wonder if that GWX program to bring it in was just a placebo.


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## R-T-B (Nov 23, 2015)

Frick said:


> A backdoor is a backdoor: regardless of who makes it.



Then I hope you're happy going hunting for patches on a website ala Windows 9x era, because if you consider Windows Update a backdoor you're going to have to do that again.

My point is, short of reading what updates do and filtering them (which is admittedly, now being denied to us), you are WILLINGLY handing over control to microsoft when you run that useful service even on 7/8.  You can't have it both ways.


----------



## AsRock (Nov 23, 2015)

Tell ya what, their should be a option were you could select which driver updates you want or not want so every thing from motherboard, video card and sound card you could just tick a frigging box if you wanted them or not.

Other company's can make software that does it why cannot MS the company with so much more money than they have.

Simple they don't want or give a dam.


----------



## Deleted member 74752 (Nov 23, 2015)

HTC - The KB3035583 update is just how it all begins...from that point is where Microsoft begins to revert your update settings without consent.


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## P4-630 (Nov 23, 2015)

rickss69 said:


> HTC - The KB3035583 update is just how it all begins...from that point is where Microsoft begins to revert your update settings without consent.



Well I removed KB3035583 and have hidden it.
Still happy in control on windows 8.1


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## Deleted member 74752 (Nov 23, 2015)

I just noticed something else interesting. Those of you with Win 10 installed...check your update settings and see where Microsoft can spread updates to other pc's and devices over a network. Almost like a virus, eh?


----------



## R-T-B (Nov 23, 2015)

rickss69 said:


> I just noticed something else interesting. Those of you with Win 10 installed...check your update settings and see where Microsoft can spread updates to other pc's and devices over a network. Almost like a virus, eh?


that's no more a virus than any peer to peer program..



> other
> company's can make software that does it why cannot MS the company with so much more money than they have.
> 
> Simple they don't want or give a dam.


I agree with that 100%


----------



## Deleted member 74752 (Nov 23, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> that's no more a virus than any peer to peer program..



Difference is it was done by Microsoft, not by you the end user.


----------



## RejZoR (Nov 23, 2015)

Well, P2P within same network is actually a good idea. I have 3 systems in my home network, without this I have to download 6GB's for a 2GB major update on a 10Mbit line which will take a while. But with P2P, 3 computers can share single 2GB download within N or AC speed wireless network. Which is SIGNIFICANLY faster. Meaning I'll download less data and update clients faster. However, sending updates outside the network, nope. Don't like that.


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## AsRock (Nov 23, 2015)

rickss69 said:


> Difference is it was done by Microsoft, not by you the end user.



Some people are bandwidth limited, so it be better for those with bandwidth caps.


----------



## Kursah (Nov 23, 2015)

rickss69 said:


> I just noticed something else interesting. Those of you with Win 10 installed...check your update settings and see where Microsoft can spread updates to other pc's and devices over a network. Almost like a virus, eh?



Seems more like WDS-lite to me. It's actually pretty useful if you have a house full of Win10 computers. I can see where folks that want more control over specific deployment options or aren't used to such concepts seeing it as a bad thing though. For those that want more control, create a WDS server (VM) if you have a home server.

Plus if it has less negative impact on your WAN where your LAN appliances can handle the load, keeps everyone streaming and updated and happy...there's less harm to it overall. +1 to what @AsRock says about bandwidth caps too...with the recent 1511 deployment...who would want to download that half a dozen times when it could merely be shared across the LAN as an update from another workstation? I can see where people are up in arms about the Automatic Update limitation, but sharing updates across local PC's doesn't seem that big of an issue to me. Sure it could be classified as malware, but not from a utility and management pov imho.


----------



## Deleted member 74752 (Nov 23, 2015)

Some of you are completely missing the point here or have morphed it into another topic. Microsoft has effectively taken the end user out of the loop with Win 10 in some instances and continues to coerce those with Win 7 via disreputable business tactics. In simpler terms, Microsoft is making decisions for you in areas where you should be in control and is doing so without your consent.


----------



## HTC (Nov 23, 2015)

rickss69 said:


> HTC - The KB3035583 update is just how it all begins...from that point is where Microsoft begins to revert your update settings without consent.



I did the same, but it STILL does what i showed in them pics i posted!


----------



## anubis44 (Nov 24, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> I'm starting to like WIndows 10 now. But only after TH2 release. Apparently Microsoft is only capable of making decent OS after a big update.
> 
> Windows XP needed SP2 for properly getting up to the level, Vista needed SP1 before it became good OS (yeah yeah, people still bitched, but it was a good OS). Windows 7 also needed one service pack to get shit sorted. Windows 8 needed 8.1 update and Windows 10 needed TH2 update. AMD hardware is still bitch to use on Windows 10 because of retarded forced Windows 10 driver updating but NVIDIA is great. They don't update graphic drivers and lif is SO MUCH EASIER.
> 
> My ACER Iconia W4 820 tablet is also usable with Windows 10 now, especially because context menus are now wider, making it easier to use with big fingers on a touch screen and Firefox 43 will even get a keyboard that pops up when you click inside fields. They only needed almost 1 year to do it where Chrome and Opera had it for ages. So, things are getting together slowly...



How is AMD hardware a bitch in Windows 10? You just download the latest AMD driver for Windows 10, like you would with nVidia, and you're good until the next update, just like with nVidia. I don't see this 'AMD hardware is a bitch to use' thing you're talking about, and I have Windows 10 on three different computers with three different Radeon cards.


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## AsRock (Nov 24, 2015)

I believe RajZoR is on about Amd's  APU 450,  as it's a bitch with mine too.


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## RejZoR (Nov 24, 2015)

Exactly. I wanted to stay with older driver version FOR A REASON and Windows Update kept overriding it with the latest driver. No matter what switch I flipped, what setting I've disabled and what tweak I've used to shut down this moronic driver updating, minutes or hours later and screen would flash, because a video driver got updated. Every single fucking damn time. So yeah, that's why I hate it with AMD. NVIDIA however apparently stopped updating drivers on Windows Update because I haven't had any driver issues recently.


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## Ahhzz (Nov 24, 2015)

So, from what I'm seeing, the only real way to stop Windows Fvckdate is to disable the Update service?


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## rtwjunkie (Nov 24, 2015)

Ahhzz said:


> So, from what I'm seeing, the only real way to stop Windows Fvckdate is to disable the Update service?



Well on W10 you're never truly going to turn off...eventually it is going to update.

With 7 and 8.1 set to manual and you can select what gets updated, looking up descriptions of every update.


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## Ahhzz (Nov 24, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Well on W10 you're never truly going to turn off...eventually it is going to update.
> .


really??  damn, I miss the original Zone Alarm... I could point it at ANY file (including itself), and it would lock that $&!* down.....


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## Octopuss (Nov 24, 2015)

Ahhzz said:


> So, from what I'm seeing, the only real way to stop Windows Fvckdate is to disable the Update service?


I was pretty surprised - despite knowing the major changes to how updates work in the new version - not to find ANY settings related to updates in the control panel. Well, I actually couldn't find jack shit in the control panel... It's not even a control panel anymore. It's some mess of settings across several crappy looking screens. I couldn't even figure out how to uninstall programs. If this is what Windows has become, I'm sticking with Windows 7.


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## rtwjunkie (Nov 24, 2015)

Octopuss said:


> I was pretty surprised - despite knowing the major changes to how updates work in the new version - not to find ANY settings related to updates in the control panel. Well, I actually couldn't find jack shit in the control panel... It's not even a control panel anymore. It's some mess of settings across several crappy looking screens. I couldn't even figure out how to uninstall programs. If this is what Windows has become, I'm sticking with Windows 7.



There is a traditional control panel...just do the search function.  I have mine pinned to the task bar now.

It has the Uninstall section like normal.  Don't be surprised though, half the functions have been ripped out of Control Panel...they just aren't there anymore!

What's left in it does work like normal, though.


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## AsRock (Nov 24, 2015)

Ahhzz said:


> really??  damn, I miss the original Zone Alarm... I could point it at ANY file (including itself), and it would lock that $&!* down.....



Maybe try Outpost Firewall, that can lock down what a can do and fully control were it connects to by port, address and others and is now windows 10 compatible since version 9.2, and if your license runs out the program is not disabled it just does not get any more updates.

You can all so control java cookies referrers and such too.

But be warned you can control a hell load with this firewall, so trail and error and learn it and take your time to learn what your doing with it as it's pretty dam powerful.

http://www.agnitum.com/outpost-security-suite.php


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## Octopuss (Nov 24, 2015)

So the only way to access the traditional Control panel is through search? WTF?!


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## rtwjunkie (Nov 24, 2015)

Octopuss said:


> So the only way to access the traditional Control panel is through search? WTF?!



Based on it being semi-hidden and with half its guts ripped out, it's obvious MS didn't want people going there.  But after search result comes up, just pin it to your taskbar and you have it.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Nov 24, 2015)

Octopuss said:


> So the only way to access the traditional Control panel is through search? WTF?!



http://www.classicshell.net/


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## rtwjunkie (Nov 24, 2015)

rickss69 said:


> http://www.classicshell.net/



Or Start10 by Stardock, although that will cost you $4.99
https://www.stardock.com/products/start10/


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## Ahhzz (Nov 24, 2015)

Octopuss said:


> So the only way to access the traditional Control panel is through search? WTF?!





rtwjunkie said:


> Based on it being semi-hidden and with half its guts ripped out, it's obvious MS didn't want people going there.  But after search result comes up, just pin it to your taskbar and you have it.





Octopuss said:


> I was pretty surprised - despite knowing the major changes to how updates work in the new version - not to find ANY settings related to updates in the control panel. Well, I actually couldn't find jack shit in the control panel... It's not even a control panel anymore. It's some mess of settings across several crappy looking screens. I couldn't even figure out how to uninstall programs. If this is what Windows has become, I'm sticking with Windows 7.





rtwjunkie said:


> There is a traditional control panel...just do the search function.  I have mine pinned to the task bar now.
> 
> It has the Uninstall section like normal.  Don't be surprised though, half the functions have been ripped out of Control Panel...they just aren't there anymore!
> 
> What's left in it does work like normal, though.



On the SO's laptop, I just use Win-X, where I select "Settings", and that's the original Control Panel.


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## rtwjunkie (Nov 24, 2015)

Settings took over alot of the former control panel functions, but the original control panel (stripped down) is still there.


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## Ahhzz (Nov 24, 2015)

AsRock said:


> Maybe try Outpost Firewall, that can lock down what a can do and fully control were it connects to by port, address and others and is now windows 10 compatible since version 9.2, and if your license runs out the program is not disabled it just does not get any more updates.
> 
> You can all so control java cookies referrers and such too.
> 
> ...


I'll dig in and see, thanks. Not worried about the "too much control stuff. I absolutely loved ZA. It told me that one of my apps was actually trying to use port 25 to connect. Did some pack sniffing, and it was just noise, looked to be a bug (or I was attacked by NSA), but still, I really enjoyed having that kind of fine control over the pc.


----------



## Ahhzz (Nov 24, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Settings took over alot of the former control panel functions, but the original control panel (stripped down) is still there.


Sorry, I may have been misleading. the "Settings" I refer to is actually the old control panel (or what is left), not the new Windows 10 "settings".


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## rtwjunkie (Nov 24, 2015)

Ahhzz said:


> I'll dig in and see, thanks. Not worried about the "too much control stuff. I absolutely loved ZA. It told me that one of my apps was actually trying to use port 25 to connect. Did some pack sniffing, and it was just noise, looked to be a bug (or I was attacked by NSA), but still, I really enjoyed having that kind of fine control over the pc.



I always swore by ZA, used it for about 10 years.  Then it started to conflict with Diskeeper.  This is an issue on their own forums where they should be aware of it and refuse to fix it.  So now I use the built in firewalls in Bitdefender Internet Security and Avast! Internet Security depending on which rig they are installed on, and feel I have just as good a firewall.


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## AsRock (Nov 24, 2015)

Ahhzz said:


> On the SO's laptop, I just use Win-X, where I select "Settings", and that's the original Control Panel.



I just (right) click the start button, either way it's not hard to get to, just that some things are a little annoying more so if your looking for the Win7 ways.

EDIT:Typo


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## Ahhzz (Nov 25, 2015)

Can't argue that at all


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## Vayra86 (Nov 25, 2015)

I am still actively wondering what Windows 10 is going to really bring for me at this time. I'm still happily on Win 7 right now, and as a desktop user I really don't see what I'm going to gain.

Faster boot? from 7 to 6 seconds maybe...
One Windows? I only have my PC with Windows, so screw the integration
DX12? I still see daily issues popping up related to new drivers and games, and zero to a max of 5-7% performance gains across the board is not worth running into issues for

What's left? Oh yeah. MS Telemetry BS, Cortana carrots to seduce me into keeping a keylogger active on my system, Windows Update System takeovers, stripped advanced user features and totally breaking SecuRom-related and tons of other older DX-based games, denying the use of legacy features and software...

Windows 7 it is. As shitty as Windows 10 is looking now, I may even keep Windows 7 beyond the support it has and get some 8.1 upgrade someplace if I really need to. And after that.... I am praying Valve has brought Linux/Steam gaming to a point where I can say this piece of junk goodbye forever. Gabe was right. Windows is a steaming pile.


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## Octopuss (Nov 25, 2015)

If it wasn't for Directx12, I wouldn't even think about upgrading. I will, but not anytime soon. I'd say at least several more months.
Also, as far as I know, Windows 7 only supports older version of Dx11 (I don't really know how that works though), so there _might_ be some performance improvement just from upgrading to Win10 for current games.


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## Vayra86 (Nov 25, 2015)

Octopuss said:


> If it wasn't for Directx12, I wouldn't even think about upgrading. I will, but not anytime soon. I'd say at least several more months.
> Also, as far as I know, Windows 7 only supports older version of Dx11 (I don't really know how that works though), so there _might_ be some performance improvement just from upgrading to Win10 for current games.



This older and newer DX11 is probably related to feature level additions to DX11 feature levels. I can imagine that there is a DX11 compatibility mode where newer feature levels are represented for machines that cannot run DX12 for whatever reason. It would make sense that Win 7 also doesn't get that update if MS wants to be an a-hole about it. And they want that.

But the bottom line is this: as long as you don't see the true DX12 features in games yet, and the only game currently in development that offers that is Ashes of the Singularity, don't even sweat it. DX11 will work fine.


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## Deleted member 74752 (Nov 25, 2015)

Way to go Microsoft...let's hasten the demise of the pc. That is the business goal, right? Morons.


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## AsRock (Nov 25, 2015)

Ahhzz said:


> I'll dig in and see, thanks. Not worried about the "too much control stuff. I absolutely loved ZA. It told me that one of my apps was actually trying to use port 25 to connect. Did some pack sniffing, and it was just noise, looked to be a bug (or I was attacked by NSA), but still, I really enjoyed having that kind of fine control over the pc.



Thats the best thing about it, it's all pretty much automated until you change from the defaults, it pretty much allows you to install and forget until you either have time or get curious .


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## 64K (Nov 27, 2015)

It's interesting to see member's experience with Win 10 upgrade. I have updates turned off on my gaming rig but I don't go on the internet with it except when it checks with Steam to play a game. On both of my laptops I have it set to download and install updates automatically and recommended updates as well. I have the "Get Windows 10" icon in my taskbar and once in a while it throws up a popup to install Win 10 but I'm not an early aderpter with software. I will wait until the last minute to upgrade for free. My gaming rig will stay on Windows 7 unless DX12 becomes a thing.


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## Atomic77 (Nov 29, 2015)

I don't know if I mentioned this but I am no longer a refusenik as I made the jump to windows 10.


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## rtwjunkie (Nov 29, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> I don't know if I mentioned this but I am no longer a refusenik as I made the jump to windows 10.



You did, on November 6th, page 13.


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## Mr.Scott (Nov 29, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> I don't know if I mentioned this but I am no longer a refusenik as I made the jump to windows 10.


My condolences.


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## dorsetknob (Nov 29, 2015)

*Sneaky Microsoft renamed its data slurper before sticking it back in Windows 10*
This year Microsoft introduced background tracking services called DiagTrack, or the Diagnostics Tracking Service. It was added to Windows 8.1 installations as well as betas of Windows 10. It arrived without much fanfare in May 14, in the shape of a patch, KB3022345.

It was just one of several slurping enhancements added via the back door.
Users thought it had disappeared in recent Windows 10 builds – but it hadn’t. Microsoft had simply renamed it.

The sinister-sounding tracking app was now the beatific and caring “Connected User Experiences and Telemetry Service”. Once again, it needs to be disabled manually (this time through the Services control panel).

more info 






http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/26/microsoft_renamed_data_slurper_reinserted_windows_10/


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## jsalpha2 (Nov 29, 2015)

Been a Win Ten beta tester from the beginning.  It is ok if I use ClassicShell, but I still use Win 7 on my main machine.  Just don't see any advantage to Win 10.  I turn off or hide all the new "features".


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## qubit (Nov 29, 2015)

@dorsetknob You know, every time I think I'm gonna finally make the jump to W10, some new surprise pops up. First up, it's all that spying that W10 does, then that seems to die down a bit and become a bit more acceptable once it's understood better and some parts of it can be turned off (I think). Then the forced updates, especially the driver ones and there's eventually a partial solution for that. Then it's the lack of full support for old DX versions breaking some old games I like to play a lot that has no solution and now this latest BS. I saw that article the other day and couldn't effing believe it. The OS is effectively spyware malware. 

If Microsoft are pushing their flagship product onto everyone almost for free, there's gotta be a catch, right? Well, this appears to be it.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Nov 29, 2015)

@qubit running W10 on one of my machines as extended testing platform.  I'm unaware what non-support of old direct X there is with W10.  I've run games all the way back through DX10, 9, and 8.  No problems at all.  Obviously you have to download the DirectX package from MS, June 2010 I think.


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## qubit (Nov 29, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> @qubit running W10 on one of my machines as extended testing platform.  I'm unaware what non-support of old direct X there is with W10.  I've run games all the way back through DX10, 9, and 8.  No oroblems at all.  Obviously you have to download the DirectX package feom MS, June 2010 I think.


Ok, that's great you've been able to use your old games. However, UT2004 doesn't run properly on it, even though it installs DX at first run. I'll try that DX2010 update which I've got somewhere. It's just that when I googled for it at the time there didn't seem to be a definitive solution for this problem, although I have to admit I hadn't gotten round to exploring all avenues yet.

It doesn't fix the spyware part though.


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## rtwjunkie (Nov 29, 2015)

qubit said:


> It doesn't fix the spyware part though



True enough!


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## dorsetknob (Nov 29, 2015)

my daily drive is still xp pro ( because  i use hardware and its software that don't work under ""Piss-ta"" or later ) i duel boot to win 7  ( with relevant XP only  hardware disabled )
All updates FOR Win 7  are Disabled   and thats the way its Staying
Perhaps  when the Free Upgrade Period is OVER  they might stop pushing these SLY AND UNDERHAND BANDWIDTH THIEVING UPDATES   then might be the time to resume updating BUT STILL NOT TO SPYING TEN+


----------



## 64K (Nov 29, 2015)

dorsetknob said:


> my daily drive is still xp pro ( because  i use hardware and its software that don't work under ""Piss-ta"" or later ) i duel boot to win 7  ( with relevant XP only  hardware disabled )
> All updates FOR Win 7  are Disabled   and thats the way its Staying
> Perhaps  when the Free Upgrade Period is OVER  they might stop pushing these SLY AND UNDERHAND BANDWIDTH THIEVING UPDATES   then might be the time to resume updating BUT STILL NOT TO SPYING TEN+



Windows Piss-ta 

I bought Vista when it first came out and it was quite a change from XP and hardware manufacturers didn't help any with poor driver support and especially selling 512 MB PCs which wasn't enough for Vista. People with issues couldn't get much help on tech sites and customer support advice for hardware was hit or miss. With MS getting it right every other version Win 10 should be good. I finally retired my XP rig last year. It's amazing how long XP was supported.


----------



## Delta6326 (Nov 30, 2015)

Hey guys now that my new PC parts have arrived I was wondering if anyone had any info on: Is the authorisation tied to hardware IDs or your Microsoft account? Is still the best method of updating to new hardware by installing old HD to new computer then take 8.1 Pro update to W10 Pro and wipe it and to clean install on new SSD's?

http://hexus.net/tech/features/software/85085-how-clean-install-windows-10-usb-drive/


----------



## AsRock (Nov 30, 2015)

Seems to be both, i don't use a MS account for win 10 activates without issue.  I tried it back when it was released to public and stopped about 28 days in and went back to win7 but about a week ago i put win 10 back on and it was automatically activated although that was though the upgrade from win7.


----------



## Atomic77 (Nov 30, 2015)

Vista was actually a good OS. I had it for 4 years on a Gateway PC that was made to handle it before I got my HP envy in 2014 for Christmas.


----------



## taz420nj (Dec 1, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> Vista was actually a good OS. I had it for 4 years on a Gateway PC that was made to handle it before I got my HP envy in 2014 for Christmas.



I lol'd.


----------



## dorsetknob (Dec 1, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> Vista was actually a good OS. I had it for 4 years on a Gateway PC that was made to handle it




Had ( for its time and still own ) a reasonably high spec laptop ( core 2 duo 2ghz cpu and 2gig  ram) came with Piss-ta pre installed 
it run like a pig in a Tar pit 
reverted to Xp-Pro (unsupported ha ha ) and laptop then Flew like it was on crystal meth.


----------



## AsRock (Dec 1, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> Vista was actually a good OS. I had it for 4 years on a Gateway PC that was made to handle it before I got my HP envy in 2014 for Christmas.



I still run it on one of my systems without issue at all.


----------



## Atomic77 (Dec 1, 2015)

That comment about Piss-ta made me think of something funny. What if Microsoft actually made a OS and actually named it Piss-ta ?


----------



## taz420nj (Dec 1, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> That comment about Piss-ta made me think of something funny. What if Microsoft actually made a OS and actually named it Piss-ta ?



They'd get an award for truth in advertising........


----------



## Atomic77 (Dec 9, 2015)

Ain't that the truth. I'm sure they would get a lot of interesting calls from users of it lol.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 9, 2015)

rickss69 said:


> Difference is it was done by Microsoft, not by you the end user.


It's a toggle option.


----------



## RejZoR (Dec 13, 2015)

taz420nj said:


> I lol'd.



I also had Vista and it was perfectly fine.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 13, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> I also had Vista and it was perfectly fine.


It was a case of hardware not being prepped for software really.  WinME on the other hand was a real stinker...


----------



## RejZoR (Dec 13, 2015)

How is that Microsoft's problem? I still remember how people were bitching over constant Vista BSOD's. And when I've requested photos of these BSOD's in 90% of cases it was nv*.sys driver that was causing them. How is that Microsoft problem when NVIDIA driver was pissing all over the OS?


----------



## P4-630 (Dec 13, 2015)

rtwjunkie said:


> Well on W10 you're never truly going to turn off...eventually it is going to update.
> 
> With 7 and 8.1 set to manual and you can select what gets updated, looking up descriptions of every update.



Thats the reason I did not upgrade to windows 10.
Also on my windows 7/8.1 systems I decide when and what driver gets installed.


----------



## qubit (Dec 13, 2015)

Atomic77 said:


> *Vista was actually a good OS.* I had it for 4 years on a Gateway PC that was made to handle it before I got my HP envy in 2014 for Christmas.


Don't say that, you'll get pelted with rotten tomatos! 

I ran it too and it was actually decent after SP1 and solid after SP2. It looked beautiful too and easily the best looking interface I've seen on a Microsoft OS, with that black glossy wow factor look. I miss it.

Unfortunately performance was never really that good, even after SP2.


----------



## P4-630 (Dec 13, 2015)

I never had problems with Vista and I loved the DreamScene animated desktop background!


----------



## AsRock (Dec 13, 2015)

qubit said:


> Don't say that, you'll get pelted with rotten tomatos!
> 
> I ran it too and it was actually decent after SP1 and solid after SP2. It looked beautiful too and easily the best looking interface I've seen on a Microsoft OS, with that black glossy wow factor look. I miss it.
> 
> Unfortunately performance was never really that good, even after SP2.



And yet my z68 ( Vista ) setup starts up a little faster than my Z77 setup with windows 7. Although that could be due to how many USB devices their is .


----------



## Delta6326 (Dec 14, 2015)

Hey guy's I'm finally almost ready to go W10 waiting on 6700k chips... So I was just wondering has Microsoft changed/fixed this annoying Maintenance running in the background?
Happens all the time on my PC sends my Disk to 100%. slows everything down.


----------



## Deleted member 24505 (Dec 15, 2015)

Vista was pants

Still possible to get win 10 free?


----------



## AsRock (Dec 15, 2015)

Not to people who use pants , Jokes aside yes.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 15, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> How is that Microsoft's problem? I still remember how people were bitching over constant Vista BSOD's. And when I've requested photos of these BSOD's in 90% of cases it was nv*.sys driver that was causing them. How is that Microsoft problem when NVIDIA driver was pissing all over the OS?



Did I say it was Microsoft's problem?

Either way, it was Microsoft's problem because the consumer perceived it to be.  That's how these things work.  It wasn't however, their FAULT.


----------



## P4-630 (Dec 15, 2015)

Delta6326 said:


> Hey guy's I'm finally almost ready to go W10 waiting on 6700k chips... So I was just wondering has Microsoft changed/fixed this annoying Maintenance running in the background?
> Happens all the time on my PC sends my Disk to 100%. slows everything down.



Usually maintenance starts only when idle (not sure if the 98% disk usage is normal), 
if maintenance is running while you are using the computer something is wrong, it should not be like that.


----------



## RejZoR (Dec 15, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Did I say it was Microsoft's problem?
> 
> Either way, it was Microsoft's problem because the consumer perceived it to be.  That's how these things work.  It wasn't however, their FAULT.



So, anyone can just be uber lazy with their own drivers and then just blame it on Microsoft because customers just "perceive" like it is Microsoft's fault. Ooooook...


----------



## silentbogo (Dec 15, 2015)

Running Win10 for a few weeks now - no problems. The only issue I've encountered was yet another horrible port of a wireless driver from ASUS. They've patched the older version to run on Win10, but instead of full 300Mbit/s bandwidth I had 144Mbit/s max. Also I seem to be unable to find a 5GHz band, while my phones/tablets/other unspecified devices with 5GHz support can easily connect.

There are few other minor complaints:
- Annoying ads in Solitaire collection
- New versions of old games are ridiculously slow (almost impossible to play my favorite minesweeper)
- Problems with sharing: Win10 <=> Win10 does not work so far (except when password-protected sharing is disabled), Win10 <=> Win7 works flawlessly
- Network and Sharing center became even more complicated: takes some navigation skills and agile index finger to check current WiFi connection speed (not the bandwidth usage)
- The new start menu makes me like Unity and Gnome more and more. I've skipped win8, so I'm really not accustomed to using search in the start menu (especially when I only have 5-6 programs installed).
- Too much crapware, but it is easily removable
- Retarded and very non-informative update messages, a-la "Windows is making some stuff - go eat a sammich", "We've installed some new cool features, which we won't name or list", "Windows is taking a dump... You might wanna bring some TP =)" Good thing that we don't have to deal with this every day, only when some major updates are installed. Makes me feel like I'm a 10 year old, when even my PC talks like that.

Other than that I really like it. I even installed it on my SFF PC and it runs very fast, considering I put a 5400rpm 2.5" laptop hard drive in it. 
Specs are the following:
- AMD A4-5300B
- AsRock A55FM2-VG3+
- 2x2GB DDR3-1600 OCZ Platinum @1333MHz CL8

RAM usage is around 1.1GB, which in combination with 512MB VRAM leaves a nice chunk for running productivity software, multimedia and DOOM-III.
Overall it runs just as good as Win7 on that machine, but looks better even on an old Syncmaster 710N.
On both computers I had no OS performance issues whatsoever.

Microsoft did a really good job on this one, plus it was a free upgrade. I guess I can deal with ads and survive without minesweeper if MS keeps improving it.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Dec 15, 2015)

silentbogo said:


> - Retarded and very non-informative update messages, a-la "Windows is making some stuff - go eat a sammich", "We've installed some new cool features, which we won't name or list",


I nearly spit my coffee out it was so funny!! And so true....it's the most non-intelligent messaging from an OS ever.  Funny because it's true!


----------



## dorsetknob (Dec 15, 2015)

Hey windows 10* refusenik*

Microsoft just wont accept your refusal to upgrade
The nag screen has just changed and they seem to want to push even harder





full story or update as you like here
*refusenik* http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/15/microsoft_sneaky_about_pushing_windows_10/


----------



## rtwjunkie (Dec 15, 2015)

dorsetknob said:


> Hey windows 10* refusenik*
> 
> Microsoft just wont accept your refusal to upgrade
> The nag screen has just changed and they seem to want to push even harder
> ...



This goes right along with twice in the last 2 months they have sneakily had it checked on the optional updates, with none of the recommended updates checked.

The Register article is right, this is not the type of behavior befitting a major corporation.  I pity the unsuspecting regular users who still aren't sure about upgrading and have their automatic updates on.  They won't have a choice.


----------



## Octopuss (Dec 16, 2015)

This reminded me about something I already posted on reddit (and I was downvoted to shit). I had to recently completely reinstall someone's PC which I installed in may, because he "upgraded" to Windows 10. The guy makes roofs for living and knows fuck all about computers, and I perfectly understand he can't tell the difference between Windows updates and some obscure upgrade that's being mushed into his face on daily basis. Apparently (according to that reddit sewer of the internet) he's an idiot, retard, dipshit who can't read, and I am a troll.
I really hate this crap, because as someone pointed out, OS upgrades should never work and be done this way. Just do a clean install if you want different OS. And you could read all that klingon all day long and still don't understand a single word of it if you're like the guy from my example.

I'm glad I managed to delete and block that GWX shit in my mother, father, and father in law's PCs before disasters started to happen.


----------



## ne6togadno (Dec 16, 2015)

Octopuss said:


> This reminded me about something I already posted on reddit (and I was downvoted to shit). I had to recently completely reinstall someone's PC which I installed in may, because he "upgraded" to Windows 10. The guy makes roofs for living and knows fuck all about computers, and I perfectly understand he can't tell the difference between Windows updates and some obscure upgrade that's being mushed into his face on daily basis. Apparently (according to that reddit sewer of the internet) he's an idiot, retard, dipshit who can't read, and I am a troll.
> I really hate this crap, because as someone pointed out, OS upgrades should never work and be done this way. Just do a clean install if you want different OS. And you could read all that klingon all day long and still don't understand a single word of it if you're like the guy from my example.
> 
> I'm glad I managed to delete and block that GWX shit in my mother, father, and father in law's PCs before disasters started to happen.


this could be useful for you next time you need to block w10 updates.
it takes some time to check and remove all updates but since i did it i havent heard a word about w10 from any of pcs at home.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Dec 16, 2015)

So, got home yesterday to find an "important" update checked. Since I'm on manual update, I was able to look it up and discover that once again, MS is trying to install GWX, with a new KB (3035308, IIRC), I believe.  Unchecked it and hid it.

I'm thinking the people above that had that big install now or tonight option from The Register article probably had this little piece installed automatically for them.


----------



## Octopuss (Dec 16, 2015)

ne6togadno said:


> this could be useful for you next time you need to block w10 updates.
> it takes some time to check and remove all updates but since i did it i havent heard a word about w10 from any of pcs at home.


I used the program a few times, but eventually deleted it. There's no explanation what it does and how. I also don't feel the need to delete any updates (they would start to show up in WU sooner or later anyway, possibly messing up the blocking process).
In the end I just downloaded some scripts and edited them to my liking. The domain blocking will be done separately after I give it some additional thoughts.


Spoiler



@Echo off
echo stopping GWX.exe
taskkill.exe /IM "gwx.exe" /T /F
echo.
echo Taking ownership of the GWX folder.
takeown /f "%windir%\System32\GWX" /r /d y
echo.
echo Granting permissions.
icacls %windir%\System32\GWX /grant administrators:F /t
echo.
echo Deleting all the files.
del /q %windir%\System32\GWX\*.*
echo.
echo Changing permissions to RO/deny.
icacls %windir%\System32\GWX /grant Administrators:R /t
icacls %windir%\System32\GWX /deny EveryoneCI)(OI)F
echo.
echo Dealing with GWX in user folders.
takeown /f %localappdata%\GWX /r /d y
icacls %localappdata%\GWX /grant administrators:F /t
rmdir /s /q %localappdata%\GWX\
echo.
echo Removing root folders.
takeown /f %systemdrive%\$Windows~BT /r /d y
icacls %systemdrive%\$Windows~BT /grant administrators:F /t
rmdir /s /q %systemdrive%\$Windows.~BT\
rmdir /s /q %systemdrive%\$Windows.~WS\
echo.
echo Disabling GWX in registry.
reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx /t REG_DWORD /v DisableGWX /d 1 /f
reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate /t REG_DWORD /v "DisableOSUpgrade" /d 1 /f



edit: I think I will use the Spybot Anti-Beacon to block the tasks and services instead of the above mentioned program.


----------



## ne6togadno (Dec 16, 2015)

Octopuss said:


> I used the program a few times, but eventually deleted it. There's no explanation what it does and how. I also don't feel the need to delete any updates (they would start to show up in WU sooner or later anyway, possibly messing up the blocking process).
> In the end I just downloaded some scripts and edited them to my liking. The domain blocking will be done separately after I give it some additional thoughts.
> 
> 
> ...


i havent used script but did manual uninstall and then manually checked for updates few times and hide unwanted kbs. worked fine for me.
what i like in this thread is list of kbs in one place. very handy.


----------



## R-T-B (Dec 16, 2015)

RejZoR said:


> So, anyone can just be uber lazy with their own drivers and then just blame it on Microsoft because customers just "perceive" like it is Microsoft's fault. Ooooook...



Welcome to the world of public perception.  It isn't perfect.


----------



## vega22 (Dec 16, 2015)

i think i might of put win  7 back on my machine for the last time.

next clean install will have to be 10 or linux i think...


----------



## monim1 (Dec 16, 2015)

I am still using W8 and want to stick with it for few more days.
Actually I am wanting for good reviews on W10.


----------



## Niteblooded (Dec 17, 2015)

Hi all, looking to build a new gaming machine.   I read this entire thread.   I saw some people go from anti-Win10 to pro-Win10 and many keep their frustrations about Win10 so for someone going with a new clean build, should I jump to Win10?

I like having control over my updates so that's the biggest weakness I see right now.   In the beginning of this topic people were extremely detailed on what worked in Win10 and what didn't.   Seems like many opinions changed starting in November but no details as to why.   Is this still a thing ===> [Windows 10] hide/prohibit install of specific Windows Update?

If I do make the jump to Win10 what settings/configurations should I make to make it palatable?


----------



## Octopuss (Jan 6, 2016)

Found this somewhere.







Evolution my ass.


----------



## dorsetknob (Jan 6, 2016)

Octopuss said:


> Evolution my ass.



Evolution starts with the other hole  
Windows 10   is the other hole  (derogatory comment  use your imagination as to the other hole )


----------



## Vayra86 (Jan 6, 2016)

dorsetknob said:


> Evolution starts with the other hole
> Windows 10   is the other hole  (derogatory comment  use your imagination as to the other hole )



Yup, Microsoft is trying to shove it down our _throat_.

Oh wait.. that's not where evolution happens actually.

On a side note, the longer and the more I read about W10 and especially all the new driver issues and WDDM 2.0 junk I start getting more serious about a separate W7 install that I will keep just for gaming, indefinitely. And I do actually really want to upgrade for the (slight) performance boost, but staying in control of my system still wins over that urge.


----------



## laszlo (Jan 6, 2016)

as i see  from chart is evolution : all green pipes turn slowly in red X's ; maybe this is the goal


----------



## Vayra86 (Jan 6, 2016)

laszlo said:


> as i see  from chart is evolution : all green pipes turn slowly in red X's ; maybe this is the goal



Maybe this is the AMD masterplan to take over the world, starting with Nvidia. They got the colors right anyway.


----------



## lilhasselhoffer (Jan 6, 2016)

Octopuss said:


> Found this somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The only criticism I have is that last couple of lines and gadgets.

I don't have any programs that utilize XP mode any more, all that's left still depending upon XP is written so crappy as to only run on XP (thank you Allen Bradley).

The classic theme is...interesting.  I no longer see it as a requisite for a functional OS.  It took me quite a long time to get to that point, but once you bite the bullet the new themes can be managed.  I won't say I'm in love with them, but they aren't a roadblock to progress.

Gadgets are...I don't think I'm the target audience.  They've never felt like they added to the experience, but always seemed to introduce visual clutter.  Seeing them go wasn't a deal breaker personally.



I believe the "evolution" part is gone from this chart.  If I remember correctly memory management, DX12, and some other minor improvements are what MS is selling this "perpetual" OS on.  I'd be interested to know what the conversion rates are, given how hard they seem to be pushing the upgrade at this point.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 6, 2016)

lilhasselhoffer said:


> I'd be interested to know what the conversion rates are, given how hard they seem to be pushing the upgrade at this point.



Based on the number of near misses I have narrowly escaped, only because I don't have automatic updates set, I'm guessing the numbers will show an increased "adoption" rate in the last 2 months.  Most of that increase will be the unsuspecting who suddenly found W10 installing.


----------



## silentbogo (Jan 6, 2016)

Octopuss said:


> Found this somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the only few problems with this chart are some features, that became obsolete even before Win10 release:
1) Windows Media Center wasn't meant to be. While the majority of windows users do use Media Player on the daily basis, I honestly don't know a single person that uses WMC on their PC or laptop. Maybe its just a local thing, but I will more likely see XBMC or VLC for all playback tasks (including DVD, media library and IPTV). Just an observation coming from a die-hard fan of foobar2000 and Media Player Classic.
2) Gadgets were deprecated since Win7 SP1. They were still a part of an OS, but due to security concerns Microsoft recommended to disable gadgets a long time ago.
3) Windows XP mode was replaced with a fully functional VM environment. Now you can run any OS on Win10 host with no need for a third-party software. WinXP support has officially ended, so MS has no reason to keep going with XP emulation.

The rest is right on spot. What's weird is that I am bothered more by ads in Solitaire, than all-present telemetry and spyware.


----------



## Octopuss (Jan 6, 2016)

I saw an article somewhere (maybe a post in MSFN forum) where some (unscientific) tests were done that showed 10 was actually slower than 7 in most cases. You know, the usual stuff, start something, archives, delete/copy gazzilion files etc.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 6, 2016)

silentbogo said:


> I honestly don't know a single person that uses WMC on their PC or laptop.



I use it on my HTPC, simply because currently that is the only medium that MyMovies.dk operates under.  The owner is working to create an app for W10 in the meantime which will give all the functionality that MyMovies currently has, and which none of the other platforms perfectly replicate.


----------



## qubit (Jan 6, 2016)

@Octopuss But of _course_ W10 has evolved: it spies on us more efficiently than ever!  tsk shame on you for not showing it on that table.


----------



## Ahhzz (Jan 6, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Based on the number of near misses I have narrowly escaped, only because I don't have automatic updates set, I'm guessing the numbers will show an increased "adoption" rate in the last 2 months.  Most of that increase will be the unsuspecting who suddenly found W10 installing.


Widows Update service disabled on all my Win7 devices, no problem. I'm not a target, and I keep a 3rd party firewall running on those machines "just in case". I'll be sticking with 7 for a while. I may run a full image one day, upgrade to 10, grab that image, and then revert, just to have the free license, but I'm not otherwise interested in 10. Had to go fix a Win10 driver "upgrade" yesterday. worked long enough to push 10, then updated the drivers, and disabled his network card. Go M$!!!


----------



## DarthBaggins (Jan 7, 2016)

So far I'm happy w/ my current build of w10 Pro (10586)


----------



## Ithanul (Jan 7, 2016)

Sticking to W7 for the time being, plus I don't like the idea that license acts like a OEM one for W10.  All the rest of my machines run a Linux distro now.  So if I ever have to use 10, it probably going to be thrown into a VM.


----------



## DarthBaggins (Jan 7, 2016)

I still have my Linux Distro on another SSD in JAC lol, when in doubt /root it out


----------



## RejZoR (Jan 7, 2016)

Octopuss said:


> Found this somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I still don't understand why they dropped Aero Glass. It was one of the most beautiful things I've seen in any OS. I mean, entire interface looking like glass. And I mean like real glass, not just transparency. It looked amazing. And now we're with flat everything with a bit transparency. It's like 20 steps back.


----------



## silentbogo (Jan 7, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> I still don't understand why they dropped Aero Glass. It was one of the most beautiful things I've seen in any OS. I mean, entire interface looking like glass. And I mean like real glass, not just transparency. It looked amazing. And now we're with flat everything with a bit transparency. It's like 20 steps back.



Totally agree. That's why I never upgraded to win8.
...yet I still made a questionable move of upgrading to 10... 

New start menu finally has built up enough frustration that I'm thinking about rolling back to Win7.

Another observation: lower benchmark scores (Cinebench R15, GPUPI, few others). At 4.4GHz I was getting 1002cb on Windows 7, but Win10 only gives me ~960 with the exact same overclock. Did not test it with 3DMark, but I guess I will do that only in a few years, if ever.

It was a nice 1 month test run and I still got some useful insight out of it, like testing a few DX12 benchmarks and seeing what a cutting-edge OS looks like.

*Overall Impression: *not too bad, just not my thing.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 7, 2016)

silentbogo said:


> New start menu finally has built up enough frustration that I'm thinking about rolling back to Win7.



Just install Start10 by Stardock.  No reason to be so dramatic as to go back to another OS for just a start menu when you can have it customizable like.you want, including W7 style.


----------



## silentbogo (Jan 7, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Just install Start10 by Stardock.  No reason to be so dramatic as to go back to another OS for just a start menu when you can have it customizable like.you want, including W7 style.


There are some other issues, like horrible navigation through network and sharing center and some driver issues, so the roll-back was eventual. Maybe I'll get back to 10 when I build a Skylake PC at the end of this year, but this was an expected outcome. $5 for Start10 is a minor expense, but I would like to see Microsoft implementing "Classic" or "Win7" start menu appearance somewhere in theme or taskbar settings.

Still gonna use it on my second desktop, though. It is much less powerful than my primary PC, but the hardware is newer (A4-5300B/4GB DDR3/500GB HDD/iGP). Only needed to install AMD drivers for chipset, but otherwise everything works out of the box, including the WiFi adapter. Performance is also fairly good, considering it only has 4GB of RAM and a very slow 5400rpm laptop HDD as a primary storage (SSD is on its way).


----------



## Devon68 (Jan 7, 2016)

Well the fact that a game called Killer Instinct is going to be a Windows 10 only title kind of pisses me off, but then again I'm sure a crack or a workaround will be made for it in time.
I'm still happy with windows 7 and don't feel like moving to windows 10 yet.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 7, 2016)

Devon68 said:


> Well the fact that a game called Killer Instinct is going to be a Windows 10 only title kind of pisses me off, but then again I'm sure a crack or a workaround will be made for it in time.



If it's written completely in a DirectX 12 codepath (the most likely reason for exclusivity), not likely.

DirectX 12 is really the only feature Windows 10 has that makes me use it.  Frustrating but true.


----------



## Octopuss (Jan 7, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> DirectX 12 is really the only feature Windows 10 has that makes me use it.  Frustrating but true.


That's precicely the (only) reason why I will upgrade. I just hope it won't be anytime soon. The naive idiot in me still hopes Microsoft will listen to some of the feedback it gets and improve some of the most annoying things people coming from Windows 7 complain about by then.

At this point I don't even give a shit about all the privacy/spyware stuff anymore. I just want the damn thing to have useful interface that's not so flat I can't figure out where to click.


----------



## Ithanul (Jan 7, 2016)

Devon68 said:


> Well the fact that a game called Killer Instinct is going to be a Windows 10 only title kind of pisses me off, but then again I'm sure a crack or a workaround will be made for it in time.
> I'm still happy with windows 7 and don't feel like moving to windows 10 yet.


It ain't the only game.  They announced Recore is going to be 10 only.  Sorry, but DX12 not going to make me move to 10.  I got a big enough backlog I can play for years.

Plus, just discover Kritia for Linux and the fact Wacom tablets can work on it.  So I can do digital art over on that OS now.


----------



## silentbogo (Jan 7, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> If it's written completely in a DirectX 12 codepath (the most likely reason for exclusivity), not likely.


Doubt that. It is an XBox store exclusive _[most likely]_ developed by Iron Galaxy Studios (see Arkham Origins, Arkham Knight, Destiny PS3 port) in 2013, which means that _[most likely]_ it is still a DX11 title and exclusivity is forced by microsoft as another way to boost Win10 adoption rate. 
Same thing goes for ReCore (MS Studios again).


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 7, 2016)

Octopuss said:


> At this point I don't even give a shit about all the privacy/spyware stuff anymore. I just want the damn thing to have useful interface that's not so flat I can't figure out where to click.



It's honestly not that bad in 10.  It's just not that great either.


----------



## Octopuss (Jan 7, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> It's honestly not that bad in 10.  It's just not that great either.


I tried  It's horrible. I mean why did Microsoft have to hardcode the style so much? If it was easily moddable into regular classic theme, people would complain a LOT less. Heck I wouldn't even miss Aero (which I love and prefer) that much then.


----------



## R-T-B (Jan 7, 2016)

Octopuss said:


> I tried  It's horrible. I mean why did Microsoft have to hardcode the style so much? If it was easily moddable into regular classic theme, people would complain a LOT less. Heck I wouldn't even miss Aero (which I love and prefer) that much then.



Personal preference I guess.  It certainly is too hardcoded.


----------



## jboydgolfer (Jan 7, 2016)

ive been on and off of Win10 about 4-6 times now, depending on my mood, and as of the last 1 &1/2 months ive been running it again, my Main issue with it is the damn taskbar constantly getting "stuck". it must be notification based, because if i go through my "hidden" icons, and right click them all, it will go away, and back to auto-hide , until it happens all over again (roughly 10 or so times a day)

SO happy i have made a back-up of All my PC's Win 7 OS' before the 10 switch. that taskbar thing is gonna happen on the wrong day, and After smashing my keyboard, Ill likely switch back again. Also i always get "failed" updates, and am required to go into device manager to manually do them, and although they work via that route, it still a pain.


----------



## Slizzo (Jan 7, 2016)

Win 10, still as flawless for me as ever (except for the times where the notification center and other various built-in apps decide to not play well).

Not a big issue for me, I don't really use the built in apps at all really, and certainly don't do much on start menu/screen. If I need something in start, I just press the key on my keyboard and start typing, that will bring up what I need faster than anything.


----------



## alucasa (Jan 7, 2016)

Been on Win10 Pro for about 2 months now. I don't have much problems with it. I let it do updates or whatever as it likes. I don't care. Though there are little annoying messages that pop up once in a while in bottom right corner.

Since I don't play much games, being on my favorite unix distro, Fedora, is certainly an option although I'd be limited by apps I could use on Unix... I loathe the idea of dual OS, so Win 10 it is. And there is a Korean program I must use in order to download Korean TV shows... which runs only on Windows and IE. (Not Edge compatible)

Though I've been toying an idea of making my media rig run on Fedora. My rendering rig is also on Fedora at the moment.


----------



## jboydgolfer (Jan 10, 2016)

I found out what was causing my taskbar locking into the Showing position.. It's the damn realtek icon, for when i plug headphones in, which is regularly. Seriously Window? I know i plugged headphones in, I plugged then in, I dont need you to lock my taskbar until i right click the damn red speaker icon. REALLY wish there was a way to stop that.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 10, 2016)

You cant set your taskbar icons to "always hide"?


----------



## dorsetknob (Jan 12, 2016)

Another hidden change to the nagware update discovered

*RoTM* Windows 7 and 8 installations are finding new ways to re-enable Microsoft’s intrusive “Get Windows 10” nagware, even when users disable it.

An additional background process has been detected that resets the Registry’s AllowOSUpgrade flag twice a day. Prophylactic measures taken by users to disable the nagware – such as these – therefore have limited use. The additional process has only been found by some users, and appears to arrive in a modified version of the KB patch which unleashes GWX.
The latest changes are documented nicely by tech scribe Woody Leonhard, here. Larger enterprise users are not eligible for Windows 10 upgrades, so don’t receive the GWX nagware that’s been plaguing Home and Professional Edition users for six months.
This can either mean one of two things, neither of which is good.
One is that Microsoft is changing the payload of the GWX nagware patch without documenting the changes. If the contents of a KB patch changes, then a new patch should be issued, and the older one retired, particularly if the newer version of the patch spawns new processes.
The other possibility is that the aggressive GWX program is mutating, and may be close to achieving sentience. GWX already fulfils many of the characteristics of an aggressive malware. Stylistically, the pop-up appears to be modelled after the nasties found on pirate media and porn sites – a pretty classy touch from Microsoft.
Similarities include: GWX won’t take "No" for an answer, and is difficult to disable. It targets old and neglected computer installations (e.g. Windows 7), and the technically naive (home Windows users). More worryingly, GWX now appears to be mutating, changing its techniques in response to preventive measures. It’s cat and mouse out there, and GWX appears to be winning.
The next stage of mutation would be for GWX to make the leap across species. The first signs of this would be cash machines reminding you to “Get Windows 10”.
Pretty soon almost anything with a CPU and display will be reminding you that you’re eligible for a Windows 10 upgrade. And that could only be the start. What if now-sentient, species-hopping Get Windows 10 pop-up mates with the MacKeeper popup? Or _The Economist_?
Surely the era of self-replicating grey goo feared by computer pioneers including Bill Joy, and HRH The Prince of Wales, is almost upon us? All of this is possible, if you only think hard enough.

story
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/0...ows_10_nagware_is_showing_signs_of_sentience/


----------



## Ithanul (Jan 12, 2016)

Hmmm, Home and Pro is getting nagged like crazy huh?  Wonder if that the reason my Ult version don't see nagging.


----------



## RejZoR (Jan 12, 2016)

Now that I've replaced shitty Windows 10 Windows Update with *Windows Update MiniTool*, it feels sooooo much better. It really "fixed" (replaced) the last seriously broken thing in Win10.


----------



## Ahhzz (Jan 13, 2016)

services.msc
windows update ---- >  Disabled
problem -------> solved.


----------



## RejZoR (Jan 13, 2016)

Ahhzz said:


> services.msc
> windows update ---- >  Disabled
> problem -------> solved.



No it's not "solved". Not updating system isn't solving anything. In fact it's creating problems... Don't know why would you disable updating...


----------



## Mussels (Jan 13, 2016)

The only reason to stay on an older version of windows, is if you have 4GB or less ram, since W10 uses more than W7/8

WUMT is great even on the older OS's, just disable the built in windows update and only get the updates you want with no sneaky crap.


----------



## Octopuss (Jan 13, 2016)

Mussels said:


> The only reason to stay on an older version of windows, is if you have 4GB or less ram


O'RLY? How about when someone finds the new version look like shite to the point of having problems finding where the damn icons in all that flat mess are, and with completely messed up settings that are illogically scattered all over the place?


----------



## Mussels (Jan 13, 2016)

Octopuss said:


> O'RLY? How about when someone finds the new version look like shite to the point of having problems finding where the damn icons in all that flat mess are, and with completely messed up settings that are illogically scattered all over the place?



Then you spend 5 minutes and learn the new locations, like people do with every new linux OS, mac OS, windows OS, android OS, and iOS update.

You can access 99% of things by either typing the first three letters in the start menu, or right clicking the start menu. Its easier and faster than every previous version of windows and a hell of a lot better than relying on muscle memory and finding something buried 6 menus deep.


----------



## Octopuss (Jan 13, 2016)

Why would I? I prefer what I'm used to for 10+ years. Certainly not with every new version.


----------



## Ahhzz (Jan 13, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> No it's not "solved". Not updating system isn't solving anything. In fact it's creating problems... Don't know why would you disable updating...


So far, I've been running this Win 7 box for over 5 years, and haven't "created problems". Not one. Not a single one. I update my drivers when I need, don't use IE except maybe 3 times a year when some program or other is specifically coded to call it, or to test something, and I run just fine, thank you very much. So, yes, "solved". No windows 10 prompts, no buggy updates, and, Wow Would you look at that?!! I've not been hacked!!


----------



## RejZoR (Jan 13, 2016)

Except all ther security holes you're leaving wide open, but hey, it's your system, not mine so be my guest. Ignorance truly is a bliss in your case...


----------



## Ahhzz (Jan 13, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> Except all ther security holes you're leaving wide open, but hey, it's your system, not mine so be my guest. Ignorance truly is a bliss in your case...


yeah, I can tell I'm insecure by all the hack attacks that are getting thru my firewall !

oh wait.... that's not happening..... ever..... and since I use chrome, I don't worry about Insecure Explorer. It has issues from time to time, but it can update without requiring new drivers for my sound card.


----------



## micropage7 (Jan 13, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Just install Start10 by Stardock.  No reason to be so dramatic as to go back to another OS for just a start menu when you can have it customizable like.you want, including W7 style.


yeah at that point i think M$ like pushing its user to follow that M$ do, but in reality it aint works well. remember win 8 that you must go to desktop every time then tweaked in win 10
 i know win 10 offer more than the previous OS, but interface affects much too


----------



## RejZoR (Jan 13, 2016)

Ahhzz said:


> yeah, I can tell I'm insecure by all the hack attacks that are getting thru my firewall !
> 
> oh wait.... that's not happening..... ever..... and since I use chrome, I don't worry about Insecure Explorer. It has issues from time to time, but it can update without requiring new drivers for my sound card.



Lol, I haven't seen so ignorant person for a while. I just wonder why you aren't using Windows XP. Becaue that one is even more secure than Windows 7. Especially now that update service has been terminated entirely. It won't bother you to restart for updates like ever.


----------



## dorsetknob (Jan 13, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> I just wonder why you aren't using Windows XP. Becaue that one is even more secure than Windows 7. Especially now that update service has been terminated entirely. It won't bother you to restart for updates like ever.



Is that your sincere recommendation
I still use XP on one machine (certain hardware requirements and drivers not available ) not been hacked hijacked pwnd or trojened in like whatever
suitable security programs and secure browsing habits work  
you are just as likely to suffer on the latest O/s as an earlier one the weakest link is the nut holding the mouse


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Jan 13, 2016)

Can you still get the "old" BSOD with W10?

This one isnt nearly as scary..


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 13, 2016)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> Can you still get the "old" BSOD with W10?
> 
> This one isnt nearly as scary..



You're right, it's just annoying as hell, because you realize Microsoft is just laughing at you, and has no intention of helping you with the information gathered!


----------



## EntropyZ (Jan 14, 2016)

I upgraded to Windows 10, and now I regret it because of all the annoying crap, plus my software not working at all. I thought I was getting prepped DX12, but found out later that first games only come out Q2 2016 at best.

I would go run to Windows 7 again, but I am too deep in this cesspool to go back now.


----------



## lonewolf (Jan 14, 2016)

My sons computer just did a win 10 update today and don't you know it his Ethernet card is now disabled. Oh joy does anyone know what they broke so I can fix it?


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 14, 2016)

lonewolf said:


> My sons computer just did a win 10 update today and don't you know it his Ethernet card is now disabled. Oh joy does anyone know what they broke so I can fix it?



Is it an add-in ethernet card, or the board? If it's the board, it wouldn't be a Killer ethernet, would it?


----------



## lonewolf (Jan 14, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Is it an add-in ethernet card, or the board? If it's the board, it wouldn't be a Killer ethernet, would it?



It is a realtek onboard chip. It is one of my old gaming systems think the main board is a ASUS.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 14, 2016)

Can you try going to the Asus support page for that motherboard and downloading the latest LAN drivers they have, from a different computer?

You'll want at least W8 ones, which most likely work, then use a flash drive or something to transfer driver.  If you are lucky enough that there are W10 drivers, even better. 8 or 8.1 ones should work though to get a connection.  We jist want to get W10 jogged into motion. If it works, it will download what MS considers more suitable drivers.

Almost forgot, check BIOS and make sure LAN is turned on.


----------



## JrockTech (Jan 14, 2016)

Hello everyone. This is my first forum post!

I'm enjoying my Windows 10 experience so far. It feels modern like Windows 8, but has the simplicity and stability of Windows 7. 

I really like the new "Edge" web browser but I'm getting crackling audio when using it - very unfortunate. I switched to Chrome which fixed the sound issue, but now I'm getting a memory leak with it, so I have switched to Firefox. Firefox seems stable, but is easily the slowest out of three.  My old GPU (HD4890) was no longer supported, and I had to go out and get a used GTX card. That sucked, but everything runs great now. 

I hope they continue to work on this OS for awhile and not jump to another version so quickly.


----------



## EntropyZ (Jan 14, 2016)

JrockTech said:


> Hello everyone. This is my first forum post!
> 
> I'm enjoying my Windows 10 experience so far. It feels modern like Windows 8, but has the simplicity and stability of Windows 7.
> 
> ...



Heh, glad you like it, more than some do.

Can't really comment on edge, can't get used to the minimalistic interface, so it's Chrome for me.

Microsoft has said that they aren't going to jump on a next version, like ever. They're going to update the same Windows version and kernel over and over because Windows has become a multi-platform OS. Well that's what they said, but when has M$ actually kept their word?


----------



## AsRock (Jan 14, 2016)

EntropyZ said:


> Heh, glad you like it, more than some do.
> 
> Can't really comment on edge, can't get used to the minimalistic interface, so it's Chrome for me.
> 
> Microsoft has said that they aren't going to jump on a next version, like ever. They're going to update the same Windows version and kernel over and over because Windows has become a multi-platform OS. Well that's what they said, but when has M$ actually kept their word?



I just have the feeling they going smack us with major updates that cost money maybe every 2-3 years.

Gaming going start being a pain the ass for those who are not tech savvy too, you have people now buying games that are not compatible with a OS already, now i believe their will be major updates to move things a long so people will have to understand that they will need the right version of OS which even less people will know as it some thing that don't flash up at the system startup.


----------



## dorsetknob (Jan 14, 2016)

AsRock said:


> I just have the feeling they going smack us with major updates that cost money maybe every 2-3 years.



or as with office 365   A yearly subscription mode   They gotta keep the accountants and shareholders happy

edit (MILK THOSE SUCKERS for all you can get )


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 14, 2016)

dorsetknob said:


> or as with office 365   A yearly subscription mode   They gotta keep the accountants and shareholders happy
> 
> edit (MILK THOSE SUCKERS for all you can get )



It's much more cost-effective to buy Office 2013 or 2016 than to go the Office 365 model.  Of the two I prefer 2013 as a home user for the interface.  Plus there is the added benefit of knowing I am denying MS a constant stream of money!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 14, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> This goes right along with twice in the last 2 months they have sneakily had it checked on the optional updates, with none of the recommended updates checked.
> 
> The Register article is right, this is not the type of behavior befitting a major corporation.  I pity the unsuspecting regular users who still aren't sure about upgrading and have their automatic updates on.  They won't have a choice.



thats why I manually Update, Woody of the Dummy books has a MS DEFCON Site

http://www.askwoody.com/ms-defcon-system/

I found out what the nag patch is
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3035583

http://www.askwoody.com/2016/how-ge...ndows-7-and-8-1/comment-page-1/#comment-73207

http://www.askwoody.com/2016/micros...-is-coming-to-domain-joined-win7-and-8-1-pcs/

http://www.askwoody.com/2016/internet-explorer-8-9-10-end-of-life/


----------



## P4-630 (Jan 14, 2016)




----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 14, 2016)

P4-630 said:


>



Oh man, that made me literally howl with laughter! I love it!!

@eidairaman1 Yep, I also only manually update, or it would have been non-voluntary update!


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 14, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Oh man, that made me literally howl with laughter! I love it!!
> 
> @eidairaman1 Yep, I also only manually update, or it would have been non-voluntary update!



i just updated my previous post, Askwoody is a very good source of Info for MS-DEFCON

I had that stupid patch on my rig and removed it as soon as I found out what it was.


----------



## lonewolf (Jan 14, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Can you try going to the Asus support page for that motherboard and downloading the latest LAN drivers they have, from a different computer?
> 
> You'll want at least W8 ones, which most likely work, then use a flash drive or something to transfer driver.  If you are lucky enough that there are W10 drivers, even better. 8 or 8.1 ones should work though to get a connection.  We jist want to get W10 jogged into motion. If it works, it will download what MS considers more suitable drivers.
> 
> Almost forgot, check BIOS and make sure LAN is turned on.


Thanks for the reply's. I got it working after 3 restarts and unplugging the computer from the network and replugging it in. For some reason the updates turned off the network card. I know it was on before my boy was playing games on it online, and it updated win 10.


----------



## dorsetknob (Jan 14, 2016)

Run a Biz   think you were safe from Mircrsofts Nagware THINK AGAIN
*No escape: Microsoft injects 'Get Windows 10' nagware into biz PCs *

Microsoft's relentless campaign to push Windows 10 onto every PC on the planet knows no bounds: now business desktops will be nagged to upgrade.
When Redmond started quietly installing Windows 10 on computers via Windows Update, it was aimed at getting home users off Windows 7 and 8. If you were using Windows Pro or Enterprise, or managed your machines using a domain, you weren't supposed to be pestered with dialog boxes offering the free upgrade.
Until now.
According to Microsoft on Wednesday, the controversial try-hard "Get Windows 10" nagware is now coming to an office near you:
We will begin to roll out the “Get Windows 10” app to additional devices that meet the following criteria, in the US later this month and in additional markets shortly thereafter:

Running and licensed for Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1 Pro
Configured to receive updates directly from the Windows Update service (i.e. updates are not managed by WSUS or System Center Configuration Manager on those devices)
Joined to an Active Directory domain
Microsoft claims it's doing this because many small businesses – the sort of organizations that run Windows Pro, use a domain, but leave automatic updates on – want an easy way to install the new operating system. If companies really want this software, you'd think they'd install it themselves – or opt in for it, rather than having to opt out repeatedly.
You can try your luck following these instructions to halt the upgrade – until Microsoft changes the rules again. Windows Enterprise edition in large corporations will avoid the automatic, virtually mandatory, upgrade.
The telemetry phoned home to Redmond by Windows 10 worries quite a few folks, but won't freak everyone out. However, the pushy assumption by Microsoft that we should unquestioningly swallow Windows 10 will continue to aggravate: it's straight out of its 1990s bullyboy playbook, except rather than screw over its rivals, Microsoft is now turning the screws on its own customers.
Somewhere deep inside Redmond, an exec is looking at the stats and repeating to themselves: "200 million people can't be wrong."

SOURCE http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/14/get_windows_10_business_pcs/

Coming Soon to Enterprise and ultimate editions (followed by Pirate editions  )


----------



## Octopuss (Jan 15, 2016)

"Microsoft claims it's doing this because many small businesses – the sort of organizations that run Windows Pro, use a domain, but leave automatic updates on – want an easy way to install the new operating system."
Noone wants to install a new operating system in any way, *especially in domain environment* you retards!!!!
I did basic IT support for a few years and it was tough enough with everyday's problems. I cannot imagine what would I do if I came to work one day only to find out client's computers upgraded themselves to different OS overnight. I would probably start yelling Satan's name, waving my arms and jump out of the nearest window.


----------



## micropage7 (Jan 15, 2016)

Octopuss said:


> "Microsoft claims it's doing this because many small businesses – the sort of organizations that run Windows Pro, use a domain, but leave automatic updates on – want an easy way to install the new operating system."
> Noone wants to install a new operating system in any way, *especially in domain environment* you retards!!!!
> I did basic IT support for a few years and it was tough enough with everyday's problems. I cannot imagine what would I do if I came to work one day only to find out client's computers upgraded themselves to different OS overnight. I would probably start yelling Satan's name, waving my arms and jump out of the nearest window.


yea, i feel your pain

sometimes we dont have a clue how to tell them


----------



## JrockTech (Jan 15, 2016)

I'm just curious as to why you would be so upset about a client upgrading their operating system? Could someone elaborate for me?


----------



## Octopuss (Jan 15, 2016)

JrockTech said:


> I'm just curious as to why you would be so upset about a client upgrading their operating system? Could someone elaborate for me?


I take it you never worked as IT support?


----------



## JrockTech (Jan 15, 2016)

Octopuss said:


> I take it you never worked as IT support?


No.


----------



## Octopuss (Jan 15, 2016)

It's difficult to explain when you don't have first hand experience with the usual problems you have to deal with when supporting few tens to hundreds of people. Enough stuff is very likely to break when you upgrade to a completely different OS, and when you're connecting to a domain on top of that, shit WILL hit the fan. Even extremely trivial things users call with every day take time to troubleshoot/fix (or just simply explain to them). And then after said upgrade you have numerous people call you simultaneously that they can't connect to a network share, some files are missing, internet has different icon, printer isn't working, etc etc. (and that's if they are even able to log onto the domain when they come to work)


----------



## JrockTech (Jan 15, 2016)

Thanks for explaining it and that's what I assumed the issues would be. I could definitely see drivers being another problem. Especially with older systems.

I don't mean to get to off topic but can I ask why you stopped doing IT? I would like to go school to get into this type of work. That's why im curios.


----------



## Octopuss (Jan 15, 2016)

Heh, I am a loser who started working too late because I had no idea what to do with my life, and now at 35 with less than 5 years of work experience (and unemployment in the past 4 because of health problems) I have a "bit" difficult time getting a job, because everyone thinks I am useless and retarded (very true).

If you're young and interested in this field, by all means, jump right in. The sooner and deeper the better.


----------



## JrockTech (Jan 15, 2016)

I'm currently 27. I left construction last year and since then have been contemplating what do with myself. My friends and family are telling me my indecision on a career is a decision to do nothing.  Computers have been by primary hobby since I was 13.  If I could get a job helping people with something I enjoy doing, why not?  You've sparked my interest further. Thank you for your honest answer.


----------



## Frick (Jan 16, 2016)

This might warrant a new thread:

http://arstechnica.com/information-...sers-given-18-months-to-upgrade-to-windows-10

The short of it is in a while (18 months) Skylake and future CPU's from both Intel and AMD will have no support in anything but Windows 10. For Windows 7 that's not a huge problem IMO as the extendes support ends january 14 2020, but otherwise it's ... I dunno, you decide. In the long run it won't matter because there will only be one version of Windows (if things are going the way they want them to), but currently it kinda sucks, if you don't like Windows 10.



			
				Microsoft said:
			
		

> We are particularly excited about the work we’ve done with Intel on their new 6th generation Intel Core processors (code named “Skylake”)*. Compared to Windows 7 PC’s, Skylake when combined with Windows 10, enables up to 30x better graphics and 3x the battery life – with the unmatched security of **Credential Guard** utilizing silicon supported virtualization*. We and our partners are continuing to invest, innovate, and update to drive continued performance improvements across Windows 10 and Skylake devices.



Their emphasis. I have no idea how they reached that conclusion.



> Through July 17, 2017, Skylake devices on the supported list will also be supported with Windows 7 and 8.1. During the 18-month support period, these systems should be upgraded to Windows 10 to continue receiving support after the period ends. After July 2017, the most critical Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 security updates will be addressed for these configurations, and will be released if the update does not risk the reliability or compatibility of the Windows 7/8.1 platform on other devices.



The real impact remains to be seen though, how much it will matter in the end.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 16, 2016)

Wow...this is just so wrong and heavyhanded.


----------



## Jonathan Lawrence (Jan 16, 2016)

Frick said:


> This might warrant a new thread:
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/information-...sers-given-18-months-to-upgrade-to-windows-10
> 
> ...



It hasn't mattered too much to some of my friends yet, quite a few in my area are still using XP without Support, I even have an old Laptop with XP still on it...

Oh, makes me feel a bit better for buying AMD xD


----------



## Frick (Jan 16, 2016)

Some driver writer:



> People can say what they want, but for all the people that actually have to write the drivers that require timing and bus support, this is a godsend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Mr.Scott (Jan 16, 2016)

Frick said:


> Some driver writer:


Oh yes, wouldn't want to make anybody actually do their freakin job anymore. That's why they get paid.


----------



## Octopuss (Jan 16, 2016)

I don't really understand. Windows 7 is not stopping to receiving updates anytime soon, right? And why shouldn't a Skylake-based PC work after 18 months?


----------



## alucasa (Jan 16, 2016)

It's a bogus article to feed crap to average users.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 16, 2016)

alucasa said:


> It's a bogus article to feed crap to average users.



You really think so, with all the crap many of us have been personally experiencing from Microsoft on the what is turning into a "non-voluntary" upgrade?


----------



## Tsukiyomi91 (Jan 16, 2016)

Not moving to Win 10 until there are DX12 driven games gets out of the game studio's "production line". Win 8.1 is still a more preferred platform for me but that's my opinion.


----------



## P4-630 (Jan 16, 2016)

Tsukiyomi91 said:


> Not moving to Win 10 until there are DX12 driven games gets out of the game studio's "production line". Win 8.1 is still a more preferred platform for me but that's my opinion.



This^
And even then, when DX12 games are there, they probably still have an option to run at DX11 as well.
I will install windows 8.1 on my new Skylake build as well.


----------



## Tsukiyomi91 (Jan 16, 2016)

also, the one thing about Win 10 is the UI... sure it's new but kinda weird for me... the "superbar" looks like it's shrunk down, perhaps to fit more pinned apps... the window elements on the upper right looked plain & out of proportion. again, this is solely IMO.


----------



## 64K (Jan 16, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> This^
> And even then, when DX12 games are there, they probably still have an option to run at DX11 as well.
> I will install windows 8.1 on my new Skylake build as well.


----------



## Tsukiyomi91 (Jan 16, 2016)

@64K Win 10 didn't get me though... it's a shame really XD


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 16, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> This^
> And even then, when DX12 games are there, they probably still have an option to run at DX11 as well.
> I will install windows 8.1 on my new Skylake build as well.



I share your sentiment, but don't count on it for all.  The Gears of War revamp/redux will be DX12 only, for example.


----------



## F-Zero (Jan 16, 2016)

Have Windows 10 installed from the first day it was released and yeah there were some bug's but it's really nothing major. I like it so far and will continue using it.


----------



## Frick (Jan 16, 2016)

Octopuss said:


> I don't really understand. Windows 7 is not stopping to receiving updates anytime soon, right? And why shouldn't a Skylake-based PC work after 18 months?



What it means (as I understand it) is that some updates will be specific for Skylake and upwards (and AMD ... whatever it's called). If you have Skylake on Windows 7/8.1 you won't be getting all the updates.



Mr.Scott said:


> Oh yes, wouldn't want to make anybody actually do their freakin job anymore. That's why they get paid.





Mr.Scott said:


> Oh yes, wouldn't want to make anybody actually do their freakin job anymore. That's why they get paid.



It'll just make their job easier. Like how the support people counted the days until Windows XP wasn't supported anymore.


----------



## Mr.Scott (Jan 16, 2016)

Frick said:


> It'll just make their job easier. Like how the support people counted the days until Windows XP wasn't supported anymore.


Ahh yes, the 'less work' excuse. This will be used right up until they cut half of the coding positions. Then the tune will change again. It's no different than any other job. Everybody in the world thinks they are overworked and under paid.


----------



## jboydgolfer (Jan 16, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> You cant set your taskbar icons to "always hide"?



can set it. doesnt help. the icons dont appear, Just the action of the taskbar appearing. & right clicking on realtek icon stops the TB lock , and it goes away


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 24, 2016)

Ok finally upgrading pc after 7+years, going to fresh install W10 from 8.1, any tips for settings to change? or maybe thing's that I might not know about. running 2x m.2 ssd's
Side note: getting ready to switch hardware over, anyone know the latest memtest? I can only find memtest86, if I recall isn't this outdated and newer version/brand out?


----------



## Xzibit (Jan 24, 2016)

Delta6326 said:


> Ok finally upgrading pc after 7+years, going to fresh install W10 from 8.1, any tips for settings to change? or maybe thing's that I might not know about. running 2x m.2 ssd's
> Side note: getting ready to switch hardware over, anyone know the latest memtest? I can only find memtest86, if I recall isn't this outdated and newer version/brand out?



Probably thinking about memtest86+ which was based on memtest86. + hasn't been updated since 2013.

*memtest86
*


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 25, 2016)

Hey guys got W10 pro installed and is giving me error code. Claims it doesn't like my legit W8 pro code. Any ideas?
Otherwise everything else is going good.
Already wiped my old install drive....
Back to sleep for me.


----------



## RejZoR (Jan 25, 2016)

Did you install it via offered upgrade or some other way (like installing Win10 over Win8 using ISO)?


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jan 25, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> Did you install it via offered upgrade or some other way (like installing Win10 over Win8 using ISO)?



I bet he didn't do the upgrade first, and went.straight to fresh install.


----------



## RejZoR (Jan 25, 2016)

Yeah, that's why I've asked. I've tried activating Win10 with Win7 key and I couldn't. Now I have to reinstall Win7 and then Win10 again...


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> Yeah, that's why I've asked. I've tried activating Win10 with Win7 key and I couldn't. Now I have to reinstall Win7 and then Win10 again...


The first time you need to do the upgrade process when using a Win 7 key, this upgrades the key itself on the activation server. The second time you should be able to install Win 10 right from the 7 key and activate. That's how it has worked for me so far. I've done 2 clean installs of Win 10 with my 7 key already but, I did the upgrade process from Win 7 to 10.


----------



## AsRock (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> The first time you need to do the upgrade process when using a Win 7 key, this upgrades the key itself on the activation server. The second time you should be able to install Win 10 right from the 7 key and activate. That's how it has worked for me so far. I've done 2 clean installs of Win 10 with my 7 key already but, I did the upgrade process from Win 7 to 10.



Not how i did it, upon being time to installed a fresh copy of win10, i just installed it and it automatically  activated and no i do not use a MS account.


----------



## Aquinus (Jan 25, 2016)

AsRock said:


> Not how i did it, upon being time to installed a fresh copy of win10, i just installed it and it automatically  activated and no i do not use a MS account.


Don't know then. I've heard of people not being to activate doing it directly that way. Maybe something has changed on MS' side since. I can only tell you what worked for me and from what I've observed.


----------



## RejZoR (Jan 25, 2016)

Windows 10 builds from 1511 and up should be able to accept Win7 key directly, but only if the key has been activated before. If you have a clean unused key, it won't work. I had such situation.


----------



## trog100 (Jan 25, 2016)

i did a fresh win 10 install on an old dell machine i have.. it activated okay without any product keys.. the machine had win 7 on it but i just reformatted and did the fresh install.. i then later reformatted the original hardrive and put win 10 on a small SSD.. again it all activated without problems.. it ask for a key but i selected the skip and do it later options.. i never had to though it all simply activated..

i came to the conclusion that MS were not that bothered any more they just want as many folks on win 10 as they can get.. that is my own experience.. it may differ for others..

i also ran win xp for years without MS support with no problems.. what finished it off in the end wasnt lack of MS support it was lack of many other things support.. more and more newer stuff just would not install on it.. in the end it made sticking with xp more trouble than it was worth so i installed a dual boot win 7 option.. 

my win 7 phase never lasted long.. i rapidly moved to win 10.. to be honest it looks very like my old xp used to look.. i have no problems with it.. at least no more than with any other operating system change..

trog


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 25, 2016)

You are correct I did clean install without upgrading w8 first. I did this because I read you don't need to any more with the latest build, anyone know how to check the downloaded build I'd? Maybe i got a old one. Installing via USB.

Maybe I need to do the call thing?

Side note, I backed up all my important files to my 2Tb ext and 1 folder of pictures won't transfer over to my media drive, says I don't have permission cant even view it and to change via security tab, won't let me change anything.

Edit: when I get home I will post the error code I was too tired last night.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 25, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> The first time you need to do the upgrade process when using a Win 7 key, this upgrades the key itself on the activation server. The second time you should be able to install Win 10 right from the 7 key and activate. That's how it has worked for me so far. I've done 2 clean installs of Win 10 with my 7 key already but, I did the upgrade process from Win 7 to 10.



I've installed at least a dozen fresh installs with 7 and 8 keys using the latest ISO, no issues. I've used new keys, activated keys, it has made no difference in my experience with this latest ISO. So hopefully folks don't have to waste time upgrading to do a fresh installation any longer...but it seems there's still quite a few issues.

@Delta6326  I use the version downloaded from here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows10

I have only used new 7 and 8 Pro keys, where already used keys were a split between OEM Home and Pro and non-OEM home and pro. But the latest ISO I downloaded last month has worked perfectly for each install I've done. I'd say re-download the latest ISO and try again...I'll check with my bench guy this morning as he's got a couple 10 units to deploy this afternoon, fresh builds for our office we're using some of our remaining 7 and 8 keys on. I'm going to see if we can duplicate the issue and use some of our remaining unused keys. But last time we did, those machines activated right away and installed w/o error messages... more to come hopefully in a couple hours.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 25, 2016)

OK, sadly re- downloading will take hours  farm internet.

I wish I wouldn't have formated my old drive right away, but using it now for music pic, videos. Ssd replaced it.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 25, 2016)

Sorry to hear that, and do I understand..been a while since I was on rural internet, is it line-of-site out your way?

We just started a fresh 10 install with an 8 Pro key (unused), and it took just fine, installing now. This is a non-OEM key that we used.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 25, 2016)

Does "Extend these displays" break for everyone else on computer restart or is it just me?


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 25, 2016)

Yes line of site internet. Was technet w7 ultimate then w8 pro upgrade that $15 one.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 25, 2016)

I had one of them activations, but I was a release-day W10 convert so I did the upgrade-then-fresh install route with my main rig (It was Win 7 Pro to w8 Pro upgrade using student discounts). I don't have any upgraded keys...you might actually try your Win 7 Pro key from that upgrade if you still have it.

LoS sucks, but when you have no other options or can't afford the several grand or more for remote satellite, it's better than nothing. Air Fiber is getting better though...hopefully you'll have more options in the near future. 

@FordGT90Concept That's an interesting issue, that does not occur. One thing I've liked about 10 is that it seems to handle multiple displays quickly and flawlessly. I'd be checking Event Viewer for possible driver crashes. You using the latest Crimson driver? You using both cards in your system each dedicated to a screen? How's your configuration? Does your system lockup and reboot or just reboot?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 25, 2016)

Kursah said:


> @FordGT90Concept That's an interesting issue, that does not occur. One thing I've liked about 10 is that it seems to handle multiple displays quickly and flawlessly. I'd be checking Event Viewer for possible driver crashes. You using the latest Crimson driver? You using both cards in your system each dedicated to a screen? How's your configuration? Does your system lockup and reboot or just reboot?


The only error that is popping up frequently is combase.dll.  I doubt it is related though...probably has more to do with my broken Edge browser.  The issue predates Edge breaking.

I'm using 16.1 beta.

Each card drives one monitor:
R9 390 -> DVI -> KVM -> DVI -> T240
R7 360 -> VGA -> KVM -> VGA -> 906BW

I always switch to my computer before booting.  It exhibits the same behavior regardless if it is switched to it or not.

I shutdown every night.  It goes back to "Show only on 1" every morning.  I switch it back to "Extend these displays" and it works fine until the next day.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 25, 2016)

Interesting... what if you temporarily remove the 360 and run both displays off of the 390 or even vice-versa?

Has this issue plagued you since going to 10? Before 10? Or only after you'd been on 10 a while? And it seems to occur pretty consistently to your actions...is the KVM the type that you hit scroll lock or a key combo to switch or does it come with a remote button to swap inputs? I have seen some KVM's cause some issues because of how the outputs are detected... I've honestly had better luck with newer IOGear KVM's than older ones in W7/8/10, S2008/2012, R2, etc.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 25, 2016)

OK tried my key again it says
: Error installing product key
Error code: 0xc004e016

Also says
Error code: 0xc004c003
The activation server determined the specified product key has been blocked

Don't know why that would be.

Also getting you have been denied permission to access this folder
: to gain access to this folder you will need to use the security tab.
Trying to copy over my pictures from my external hard drive. I just put them on 3 days ago from my old system.

Happened to 8 folders of pic, and any loose ones in my main picture folder


Edit tried: didn't work
Right-click on the folder which you’re unable to access and select Properties.

b)Click on *‘Security’* tab and under ‘*Group or user names’* click on ‘*Edit*’.

c)Click on ‘*Add*’ and type ‘*everyone*’.

d)Click on ‘*Check names’* and then click ‘*OK*’.

e)Select ‘*everyone’* and under ‘*Allow*’ select*‘Full control’* and click on ‘*Apply’* and Click ‘*Ok

Get: failed to enumerate objects in the container. Access is denied.*

Here is what i have tried


Spoiler: Step by step



Here is what happens. I can now get access to folder but not files.


----------



## Ithanul (Jan 25, 2016)

JrockTech said:


> Thanks for explaining it and that's what I assumed the issues would be. I could definitely see drivers being another problem. Especially with older systems.
> 
> I don't mean to get to off topic but can I ask why you stopped doing IT? I would like to go school to get into this type of work. That's why im curios.


If you interested in IT, best to start early and get experience.  Though depending on some jobs, they like you to have certain certs or be working toward certs.
But experience is the biggest thing they want.  Reason I'm in the Guard since this allows me to get experience managing servers and client computers.

Reason I have Sec+ atm and working toward getting a CCNA Network and Windows 7 cert atm.  Plan to get certs in Linux, Virtual Machines, and Servers.

But yeah, you just don't want someone willy nilly updating their OS or applying updates themselves.  Can cause all shorts of issues.  Reason best thing to do is lock them with Active Directory and use Group Policy to control accounts.

But Microsoft has straight up stated 10 is a service.  That right there got me eyeing it hard and waiting to see how things go.
I can test and try 10 out since I have access to Dreamspark.  Deciding to do so since I can try to learn to manage one through Group Policies etc.


----------



## Ithanul (Jan 25, 2016)

Delta6326 said:


> Here is what i have tried
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Step by step
> ...



Hmmm, have you check the permissions on each file?  Could try to xcopy the files through cmd.

Ooops, sorry for double post.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 25, 2016)

Ithanul said:


> Hmmm, have you check the permissions on each file?  Could try to xcopy the files through cmd.
> 
> Ooops, sorry for double post.



Perfect timing I just tried those steps again and worked. I tested on this file 









Any way to speed this process up? I have all files very detailed folder inside folder inside folders for dates, and specific topics I'm ocd like that


Each file is like this it only let's me change the security per file that will take hours to change thousands of pictures.


----------



## Ithanul (Jan 25, 2016)

Delta6326 said:


> Perfect timing I just tried those steps again and worked. I tested on this file
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Highlight all files, right click.  This should allow you to edit all permissions on all the files.

I had a guess that was your issue.  NTFS can be funky like that.

Edit:  Hmmm, ok that don't work.  Give me a minute I can find something for ya.

Alright, when you changed permission on the folder.  Did you go into advance?
There is a setting that will allow the permission of the folder to be applied to its child objects inside it.

Here pic, Windows 7 though.  But gives you a idea.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 25, 2016)

I've had the permissions issue before. For some reason permissions on folders from older OSes to a fresh 10 install can create some headaches. Resetting permissions seems to help though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3g42rn/updated_to_windows_10_now_im_getting_access/

Be careful giving everyone full control, that could bite you in the ass in the future. I have dealt with the same issue though. If they are on a drive, you might modify permissions for your account. Some users skip using a Microsoft Account and use a local account which helps resolve the issue. I was able to resolve it and continue using my MS account by doing the above. I made sure my MS account is under the Administrators security group, reapplied permissions to Administrators. It did take a couple of tries but I was able to resolve it.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 25, 2016)

By the way found this on Microsoft website...
So Could I reinstall W8 on one of my other empty drives in this system, activate w10 and then go back to this OS install on my SSD?



You performed a clean installation ofWindows 10 instead of first upgrading from your previous version of Windows. When this happens, we aren't able to register your entitlement with the activation servers because you aren't upgrading to Windows 10. To fix this, go back to your previous version of Windows, make sure the previous version is activated, and then upgrade to Windows 10. For more info about how to go back to a previous version of Windows, see the section in Recovery options in Windows 10.




Kursah said:


> I've had the permissions issue before. For some reason permissions on folders from older OSes to a fresh 10 install can create some headaches. Resetting permissions seems to help though.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3g42rn/updated_to_windows_10_now_im_getting_access/
> 
> Be careful giving everyone full control, that could bite you in the ass in the future. I have dealt with the same issue though. If they are on a drive, you might modify permissions for your account. Some users skip using a Microsoft Account and use a local account which helps resolve the issue. I was able to resolve it and continue using my MS account by doing the above. I made sure my MS account is under the Administrators security group, reapplied permissions to Administrators. It did take a couple of tries but I was able to resolve it.



What permission do you recommend instead of everyone? New to this problem


----------



## Ithanul (Jan 25, 2016)

Delta6326 said:


> By the way found this on Microsoft website...
> So Could I reinstall W8 on one of my other empty drives in this system, activate w10 and then go back to this OS install on my SSD?
> 
> 
> ...




You can probably install over if you got all your data backed up.  Then do upgrade option.  Also a good thing to do would probably make a image of the OS for backup.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 25, 2016)

@Delta6326 

Give full permissions to administrators, and then add yourself to the administrators group in Computer Management under Users and Groups (if you have a Pro OS version or higher). Everyone can have Read access, and really you can do whatever you want...but best practice and if other people have access to your shares, workstation or account (if left open or not passworded), then your files are at risk...both physically and remotely.



You could install 8 on an empty drive and upgrade to 10 yes. It will create a UID for your mainboard that registers the OS. Then your next fresh install should activate using that UID to check against MS's servers to verify you're legit. 

Both fresh installs we did this morning were successful, with the latest ISO, one 7 key one 8 key, both Pro non-oem. Must be something with the key you have...some get flagged I guess. I'm hoping to duplicate that issue on my bench.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 25, 2016)

Talking to Mohammed Y
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.6)]Microsoft Answer Tech

*Asked for my W8 Pro key to activate it*[/COLOR]

asking for remote access?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 25, 2016)

Kursah said:


> Interesting... what if you temporarily remove the 360 and run both displays off of the 390 or even vice-versa?


Can't.  390 had no VGA support.  The only option is DisplayPort (plug and play) to VGA (non-plug and play) converter and Windows ends up moving the crap on the second to display to the main display every time the monitor goes off (being it power saving or KVM switching).  It's horrible which is why I've generally had a second graphics card in my machine for VGA since switching to R9 290X.

If I recall correctly, it ran perfectly fine with just the 360.



Kursah said:


> Has this issue plagued you since going to 10? Before 10? Or only after you'd been on 10 a while? And it seems to occur pretty consistently to your actions...is the KVM the type that you hit scroll lock or a key combo to switch or does it come with a remote button to swap inputs? I have seen some KVM's cause some issues because of how the outputs are detected... I've honestly had better luck with newer IOGear KVM's than older ones in W7/8/10, S2008/2012, R2, etc.


I believe it didn't do it when first upgrading to Windows 10.  I think it started doing it after that big Threshold update around the beginning of November.

KVM supports scroll lock + scroll lock + # or pressing a physical button on the KVM itself.  I always use the scroll lock shortcut.  The KVM is a Startech model and I've had it for probably 7 or 8 years now.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 25, 2016)

@FordGT90Concept 

Startech makes some decent KVM stuff...I can't imagine its the issue here, so I'll leave the assumption it isn't for now. 

I can only speculate maybe an issue with the newer AMD drivers? Have you gone back to pre-crimson, pre-beta to see if that resolved it?

And nothing else in event logs related to anything else failing or switching? I wonder if the OS is lagging on detecting the VGA monitor and that's why its switching to single screen desktop mode...


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 25, 2016)

Ok issued fixed! Great support He did remote access tried code 3 times, contacted supervisor he joined looked it over he typed in a brand new W10 Pro code typed it in a notepad for future reference.

The big question is my W8 Pro code still good? Could I do another pc build use it then upgrade 


So in the future if anyone get's these error codes just click on the customer support link and do chat.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/activation-errors-windows-10





Now that it's activated found some updates in those was 
 Upgrade to Windows 10 Pro, version 1511, 10586.
So I must have DL'ed a old ISO.
Also I switched to "Metered connection" that way it won't auto download updates.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 25, 2016)

Theoretically the W8 code shouldn't work for 8, but I know before the ISO change in November that people were able to reuse their original OS activations for the original OSes they were for after using them to activate 10. Not sure that's long term tho. But with MS making such a big push to support 10 and only 10, they might not care as much while they ween support off of 7 and 8 progressively quicker with each passing month (it seems like...).

Glad you got it sorted!


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 25, 2016)

Windows 8 Pro code is only good for Windows 8 Pro.  You'd have to install Windows 8 Pro, upgrade that via Windows Update to Windows 8.1 Pro, then upgrade that via Windows Update to Windows 10 Pro, and finally activate that Windows 10 Pro install while connected to the internet (registering your hardware ID with Microsoft).  Finally, if you don't like all that upgrade nonsense, you can do a clean install of Windows 10 Pro and, while connected to the internet, it should activate (using the previously stored hardware ID).

Windows 10 does not accept keys for any product other than Windows 10.



Kursah said:


> I can only speculate maybe an issue with the newer AMD drivers? Have you gone back to pre-crimson, pre-beta to see if that resolved it?


Nope but I probably should try it.  Not sure if they'll like 3## cards though.  I'm 90% sure it's something that changed in Windows though.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 25, 2016)

You're wrong. I just did fresh installs today with Windows 7 and 8 keys. I do so regularly.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/activation-in-windows-10



> Starting with the November update, Windows 10 (Version 1511) can be activated using some Windows 7, Windows 8, and Windows 8.1 product keys. For more info, see the section Activating Windows 10 (Version 1511 or higher) using a Windows 7, Windows 8, or Windows 8.1 product key



This means that during a fresh install, you can use a Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 key. Apparently there are select keys where you will run into issues as @Delta6326 found out. I've installed over a dozen systems using fresh installations and previous windows OS keys with the new ISO. I wouldn't suggest it if I didn't have experience making it work first. Might as well take advantage of the free upgrade and now that you don't need to upgrade first (in most cases) there's less reason not to go to 10. 

Here's another snip from the link above:



> During the free upgrade, you can use a valid Windows 7, Windows 8, or Windows 8.1 product key to activate Windows 10(Version 1511 or higher). The following types of product keys are supported:
> 
> Product keys included in the packaging or the Certificate of Authenticity (COA) attached to your PC that came installed with Windows.
> Product keys included in the confirmation email you received after buying Windows from an online retailer.
> ...


----------



## lilhasselhoffer (Jan 25, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Windows 8 Pro code is only good for Windows 8 Pro.  You'd have to install Windows 8 Pro, upgrade that via Windows Update to Windows 8.1 Pro, then upgrade that via Windows Update to Windows 10 Pro, and finally activate that Windows 10 Pro install while connected to the internet (registering your hardware ID with Microsoft).  Finally, if you don't like all that upgrade nonsense, you can do a clean install of Windows 10 Pro and, while connected to the internet, it should activate (using the previously stored hardware ID).
> 
> Windows 10 does not accept keys for any product other than Windows 10.
> 
> ...




That is not accurate.

I installed a windows 8 Pro system (OEM disc install) two weeks ago.  After getting the thing to activate (internet activation didn't work, had to do it by phone) I went to the windows website and download 10 directly.  About 45 minutes later 10 was up and running, without ever having to go to 8.1.  The 8.1 upgrade might have resolved the online activation, but I never upgraded to 8.1.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 25, 2016)

Ok, now i need to find out how to fix all these "Group or user names"

On left is how a normal default file should look like "I think". On the right is a screwed up folder with pictures inside.
When trying to remove "Account Unknown" I get message at bottom.


I Disabled "Inheriting Permissions" On the TPU Logo Picture now I can't view it or change the owner...? *Fixed

I fixed it all up! Hope this helps anyone in the future.

Do this by right-clicking the Drive (In My Computer), > Properties > Security tab > then look towards the bottom right hand side and click "Advanced" > then click "Change" near the Owner > then type in the field below your "UserName" > then click "Check Names" > click "Ok" > then make sure that the checkbox next to "Replace owner on subcontainers and objects" is checked > now change your "Permission Entries" > click Add/Remove (what ever needs to be done) >click apply > then click Ok >

 If that doesn't fix it all, then go back into it check the box (next to "Replace all child object permissions with inheritable permissions from this object") > then click OK

All files look like Picture


----------



## AsRock (Jan 26, 2016)

Aquinus said:


> Don't know then. I've heard of people not being to activate doing it directly that way. Maybe something has changed on MS' side since. I can only tell you what worked for me and from what I've observed.




Well i am going back to a month after it was released,  and yes some did have issue's but i think the MS servers might of been over whelmed maybe even bug issues.

I was not trying to say your way would not work or should not be tried, i was just saying how it worked for me which i believe i have said in this thread back then too.

I be trying it again int he next week or so to see if it still works that way which it should.


----------



## OneMoar (Jan 26, 2016)

people need to read you no longer need todo a upgrade install for windows 10
as of TH2 media refresh it will take a 7/8/8.1 key and activate


----------



## RejZoR (Jan 26, 2016)

OneMoar said:


> people need to read you no longer need todo a upgrade install for windows 10
> as of TH2 media refresh it will take a 7/8/8.1 key and activate



Which is no true. Or more specifically, they don't tell you the small print. Maybe that works, but if they key is fresh, never used one (lets say you had one key laying in your drawer, unused). It won't work. I had such situation and I had to go through whole fuck of problems to install stupid ancient Windows 7 on brand new system so I could activate the god damn thing and use that key later in Windows 10. It works now, but I've needed damn 8 hours to do it because so many things were going wrong with the old OS when trying to install it.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 26, 2016)

I've used brand new 7 and 8 keys on 1511 W10 ISO's without the issues you faced, in fact just did so today, and even posted about it in this thread shortly after I did it. It's not definitive because it happened to you once, with that said I'm sure you aren't the only poor soul that's fought to make it work. I've deployed plenty of fresh 10 installs using recycled and (primarily) new and unused keys. It does sound like you went through a lotta BS, and it sucks you had to activate it first...maybe there's a regional issue there? I dunno...but ever since 1511 dropped I haven't had any issues doing fresh 10 installs using 7 and 8 keys. Maybe I've been lucky tho! 

But even on MS's site, they are careful to use the word "some" keys. See my last post above where I quote and link to the site that details the upgrade options.


----------



## RejZoR (Jan 26, 2016)

OEM keys can't activate Win10 directly unless they were used on Win7 or Win8 before, potentially they even have to be upgraded with Win10 at least once to be able to activate Win10 later on with that key.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 26, 2016)

And I'm back with more W10 issues, hope it's OK I'm posting on here.

My pc was working great after activation, it then found some updates, it was dl'ing them last night I wake up to come check it and it's not getting any internet...
So I dl'ed the latest WiFi drivers(W10) via phone and still didn't fix the problem.
It connects to my network and on another computer I can see it connected, but no internet. I can't even check my router on it... I can't even tether my phone internet.

Also noticed a ridiculous amount of event warnings and errors.

I never signed up for preview build?


----------



## Ithanul (Jan 26, 2016)

What is the IP?  Windows could of done its infamous private IP on ya.  Its annoying when it has done that.

Try going into cmd and release the IP and renewing.  Also, have you tried pinging the router?

Commands that might help you out:

ipconfig /all - show all the info on your IP settings
ipconfig /release - release your current IP
ipconfig /renew - get new IP from DHCP host


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 26, 2016)

Ithanul said:


> What is the IP?  Windows could of done its infamous private IP on ya.  Its annoying when it has done that.
> 
> Try going into cmd and release the IP and renewing.  Also, have you tried pinging the router?



Your going to have to tell me how, I don't know cmd commands.

I'm debating on just going to the previous restore point. I only have a free programs and haven't done anything yet.


----------



## Ithanul (Jan 26, 2016)

Delta6326 said:


> Your going to have to tell me how, I don't know cmd commands.
> 
> I'm debating on just going to the previous restore point. I only have a free programs and haven't done anything yet.


Just posted them above.  Also doing help or ? in any terminal prompt is your best buddy.

Kind of the reason Linux and Unix based OSes don't scare me off.  Then again I started dealing with a computer with Windows 3.1 MS-DOS.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 26, 2016)

I did run into an issue on my laptop with WiFi...I forget what I did to resolve it tho. Pretty sure re-ran updates. Can you connect via an Ethernet cable?

Also in your wireless properties, what if you force a static IP address and a static DNS (say Google's 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4) and retest?

Researching Event ID's 201 and 202 in Google brought up quite a few forum posts on Technet, might be worth reading about. 

To renew your IP address do this

Click start
Type *CMD*
Open CMD

Type *ipconfig /release*
push enter
Type *ipconfig /renew*
push enter

This will rely on your gateway's DHCP service to give it a new address. You can also disable and renable your wireless device in Network and Sharing Center > Change Adapter Settings as well. That sometimes will help to reinitialize.

Another option is go go into Device Manger, uninstall the device and check the box to remove the drivers. Reboot and see if that allows you to pick up the correct driver for your device or if you need to use..


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 26, 2016)

ipconfig /all -
host grant
Node-hybrid
IP no
Wins proxy no
ipconfig /release - the operation failed as no adapter is in the state permissible for this operation.
ipconfig /renew- same as above

Wire connection would be long ways at least 100'

What's your thoughts on just doing a clean install now that my w10 key works? Only programs are motherboard drivers. Steam music, etc. On different HD


----------



## Ithanul (Jan 26, 2016)

Delta6326 said:


> ipconfig /all -
> host grant
> Node-hybrid
> IP no
> ...


Now that the first time I seen something like that.  Definitely something screwy going on.

Currently looking up answer for this.  But you may as well do a restore to see if that fixes the issue.

Was it showing a media disconnected in the ipconfig /all read out?


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 26, 2016)

[QUOTE="Ithanul, post: 3408117, member: 161983"

Was it showing a media disconnected in the ipconfig /all read out?[/QUOTE]

No, going to try restore for fun, never done one. Then I might just reformate the thing.

I'm ocd I will always think something is broke if I don't start fresh.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 26, 2016)

In your network devices is your adapter shown? How about in device manager?

Since you're so fresh along, a fresh install (either format and install or the Windows 10 advanced menu restore...both work well). To get to the advanced menu, hold SHIFT and click Restart. If you wanna go that way.


----------



## Beastie (Jan 26, 2016)

I'm still a refusenik. W7 is working great, I've got it set up how I like it.

I'm concerned about "backdoor" issues with win10 and I don't fancy fighting the forcible driver updates.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 26, 2016)

Yep, it was fully showing, claimed it was connected.
On my other pc I could see it on my router...
Restoreing now.
I'm going to blame windows it did install 2 updates while I was gone.

Restore complete, now have internet!


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 26, 2016)

Beastie said:


> I'm still a refusenik. W7 is working great, I've got it set up how I like it.
> 
> I'm concerned about "backdoor" issues with win10 and I don't fancy fighting the forcible driver updates.



You can at least for not block updates, by telling w10 your on a metered connection


Using the USB install to reformat.
It has a setup. Exe so that is a easy way to reformat. Told it to keep nothing.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 26, 2016)

Beastie said:


> I'm still a refusenik. W7 is working great, I've got it set up how I like it.
> 
> I'm concerned about "backdoor" issues with win10 and I don't fancy fighting the forcible driver updates.



You should've stopped with the point that you like how W7 is setup on your PC...

If you're concerned about "backdoor" issues, do some reading, because 7 is no better. Forcible drivers really hasn't been an issue for me...and I've deployed 10 on dozens of new and old PC's alike, having to use 7 drivers on old Dell XPS systems, and beyond...overall 10's been an excellent experience. Sure there's some issues...but I appreciate the challenges when they do present themselves (which 3.1, 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista, 7, 8, and 8.1 all have... not a single one was a smooth launch, not a single one was issue free, not a single one of those is any more secure than 10).

If you were worried about privacy and 10, it's pretty easy to mitigate the standard goodies...but if you're a Facebook user, use credit cards, discount cards, cell phones, tablets and smart devices, smart TV's, memberships to pretty much anything...what you think is private really isn't and hasn't been for years, if not decades. I had a size-able post about this a few pages back if you're interested. 

If you like 7 and are content, stick with it. If you're concerned about the true risks of going to 10, spend some more time researching before you take the dive...backup your data. You have a 30-day rollback period if you upgrade...and many folks report using their 7 key for 7 again if they wipe out 10 and fresh install 7 back on their system. So you really reduce the risk and it comes down to the effort of taking the time to educate yourself on the matter and making it happen. If you decide to give it a go and run into issues, we'll sure be happy to assist.


----------



## Delta6326 (Jan 27, 2016)

Everything is working perfect again.  All drivers installed. 
Anyone know how to get steam to show is installed on the OS again? It was originally installed on my 2nd ssd, it still works though.


----------



## Kissamies (Jan 27, 2016)

Moved to Win10 Pro x64 right after release and no turning back on my primary computer, legacy OS is ok for my other machines, but no way in my main PC. So yeah, no way I'm using 7/8/8.1 on my main PC.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 27, 2016)

Delta6326 said:


> Everything is working perfect again.  All drivers installed.
> Anyone know how to get steam to show is installed on the OS again? It was originally installed on my 2nd ssd, it still works though.



Just run steams exe...make a shortcut and set options back to startup. Should work fine...if not just reinstall to the same directory.


----------



## RejZoR (Jan 27, 2016)

I think you need to re-install into the same folder if you want to associate Steam with the Steam links clicked in browser (so games get installed directly). Otherwise you'll have to do it manually through Steam client after buying a game.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 29, 2016)

Today, both displays started with the computer.  One update installed last night:
Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1511 for x64-based Systems (KB3124262)


----------



## Mr.Scott (Jan 29, 2016)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonk...mpaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix#1c1f186c538d

http://www.businessinsider.com/microsofts-private-mode-still-stores-websites-2016-1?r=UK&IR=T


----------



## Kursah (Jan 29, 2016)

First link has some interesting info that adds to what we already knew, the one thing I had never checked was the 10 end of support date, that is interesting. Can't say I'm too worried yet, if MS shoots itself in the foot too badly then we'll see an even stronger widespread support for Linux. I'd love to see that, so bring it!

So far 10 has been a good experience for me, but I have no doubt that they'll try to find a way to better control how their OS is deployed and what its deployed on, and now that they're tracking more based on HW UID, that makes it easier to drop support for previous operating systems (LAME). I can't say I agree with their logic for not letting users in the next couple of years with brand new PC's have a choice for using their old operating systems...especially when it comes to enterprise situations that I deal with regularly where old operating systems can be a requirement rather than spending thousands of dollars (or far more) replacing infrastructure for compatibility with a $200 OS upgrade. Again, the more crap like this they pull the stronger shares we'll see from the Linux side of things, and if that's the way mainstream goes...so be it.

I'd be curious to see if Microsoft actually answers those questions he submitted rather then replying with a declining to release a statement in the future...

Someday we could see Windows365   or likely will see it..and that's about the time I'll be done with it. I also don't think MS will go too far off the deep end as they'll start losing sales, OEM support and huge chunks of customer bases...they can only push so hard imho...but I guess we'll find out the truth soon enough. I for one could care less about losing 7 (and even 8) support, I've had far more successful 10 upgrades and deployments than not, and even being built on 8 as that article points out (which duh, we already knew this...), IMHO and in my experience, 8.1 was a solid operating system that was fast and stable (8 however had some major annoyances until 8.1), and 10 is looking to continue that trend, and if it keeps going the way it is, I'll be happy overall...just depends on what they implement and how they do so...

The second article is kind of a wash, admitting that even Chrome, Safari and Firefox do similar things with their private browsing. If it caches to your hard drive, it's gonna be traceable. Privacy hasn't truly been private in some time, many don't seem to be truly aware of this. Edge has kind of been a joke since its release more than a serious option in modern browsing, that's for sure. I don't know anyone that uses Edge as their primary browser nor would I ever recommend it. Who here uses Edge? willingly? regularly? primarily?

I test it here and there, mostly to see if they've actually fixed anything to make it compare to FF or Chrome...hell on most deployments I usually have a Ninite installer ready to deploy Chrome and FF on a system so I don't usually open it on a new system! 

Maybe articles like these will get Canonical, Valve, and the folks behind all the other awesome versions of Linux to step up their game even more and try to get a bigger piece of the pie if MS actually follows through with what they state in these articles and the dozens of others that spout similar claim. I don't doubt for a minute that MS's actions to drop update support is fake, it's the easiest way for them to wash their hands clean of something that costs more to upkeep than it makes...it's another organization ran by bottom line maximizers, we just get to be pawns. They forget that while the competition isn't huge, there's plenty of competition...and with Valve pushing gaming on Linux, and services like PlayOnLinux constantly increasing support, there's going to be fewer reasons to require Windows in any end-user PC situation moving into the future. I suppose we'll see soon enough... 2017 could be a make or break year for a lotta folks building new systems and what OS they go with... or not, it could be a small cry for some and no issues for many. I'm more interested in how they treat 10 in the long-term, and if they're going O365 subscription-style with it (has always been a concern of mine)..


----------



## Mr.Scott (Jan 29, 2016)

Kursah said:


> Someday we could see Windows365   or likely will see it..and that's about the time I'll be done with it. I'm more interested in how they treat 10 in the long-term, and if they're going O365 subscription-style with it (has always been a concern of mine)..


Of course they are.
There's more money in it that way.


----------



## Kursah (Jan 29, 2016)

Yep, and that's the sad truth of it...


----------



## dorsetknob (Jan 29, 2016)

Microsoft have already said that in everything but actualy stating that
Remember windows as a Service  
no more O/S Version Updates  win 10 is the END  only a rolling update for 10 in the future
So do not be surprised when the Windows as A service  starts to introduce a yearly subscription model and Function unlocking for a yearly fee.


----------



## Mr.Scott (Jan 29, 2016)

dorsetknob said:


> Microsoft have already said that in everything but actualy stating that
> Remember windows as a Service
> no more O/S Version Updates  win 10 is the END  only a rolling update for 10 in the future
> So do not be surprised when the Windows as A service  starts to introduce a yearly subscription model and Function unlocking for a yearly fee.


Then why try to whitewash it.
Business's that use it need time to prep and appropriate upgrade funds. Surprises are costly.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 30, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Today, both displays started with the computer.  One update installed last night:
> Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1511 for x64-based Systems (KB3124262)


Another cold boot and it worked correctly.  I assume something in that update fixed it.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Jan 30, 2016)

it is not fixed.  Today, it booted with "Show on 1" and I had to manually extend it.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Jan 30, 2016)

Ms of course is trying to now force w10 down our throats. It sucks that w7 users were shafted on a sp 2 update along with a DX 12 solution, i like the gui better than 8 definitely, w10 i guess is ok looking...


----------



## flmatter (Jan 30, 2016)

so what is the best version of win 10 to DL or does it just depend on OS and which version home, pro...?  I had I bad experience with win 10 the first I upgraded to it and rolled back to W7pro. Thinking of doing an ssd upgrade to laptop and going to win10 from there. Any thoughts or just roll the dice? Thanks


----------



## Ithanul (Jan 30, 2016)

flmatter said:


> so what is the best version of win 10 to DL or does it just depend on OS and which version home, pro...?  I had I bad experience with win 10 the first I upgraded to it and rolled back to W7pro. Thinking of doing an ssd upgrade to laptop and going to win10 from there. Any thoughts or just roll the dice? Thanks


Best to go with Pro, Home does not give you any control over updates, they are set to auto.  At least with Pro you can control through the Local Security Policy.

Fun thing to do is have the updates point to a different WSUS server that not managed by Microsoft.  
Been debating to do that with my W7, so I stop getting the darn W10 nag ware yet still get the security updates.


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Feb 12, 2016)

I found this useful video it is suggested viewing from Overclockers Community Newsletter, obviously think carefully  about you disable.

I think this is an appropriate thread.

*How to Optimize Windows 10 For GAMING & Power Users*


----------



## Ahhzz (Feb 13, 2016)

This was a pretty good article from Russia regarding attempts to lock down Microsoft's spying. 
https://hackmag.com/security/what-data-windows-10-sends-to-microsoft-and-how-to-make-it-stop/


----------



## Beastie (Feb 13, 2016)

Kursah said:


> You should've stopped with the point that you like how W7 is setup on your PC...
> 
> If you're concerned about "backdoor" issues, do some reading, because 7 is no better. Forcible drivers really hasn't been an issue for me...and I've deployed 10 on dozens of new and old PC's alike, having to use 7 drivers on old Dell XPS systems, and beyond...overall 10's been an excellent experience. Sure there's some issues...but I appreciate the challenges when they do present themselves (which 3.1, 95, 98, ME, XP, Vista, 7, 8, and 8.1 all have... not a single one was a smooth launch, not a single one was issue free, not a single one of those is any more secure than 10).
> 
> ...


Hi Kursah.

I'm well aware of the possible inbuilt security issues with W7, however if you are telling me that W10 is no worse then we'll just have have to disagree about that . I'm not sure this is the best place to get into a huge debate regarding the iniquities of the NSA, GCHQ et al and what effect this has on the consumer electronics industry.

No, I don't use facebook, credit cards, discount cards, tablets, smart devices. I do use a cell phone but I'm very aware of the privacy issues brought up by cell phone use.

I may well bite the bullet and upgrade to W10 while it is still free- I havn't decided yet- as you have observed I'm quite happy with W7 at the moment. I can see that W10 has better support for new hardware techs.
Thank you for the offer of assistance should I decide to upgrade.


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Feb 20, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> it is not fixed.  Today, it booted with "Show on 1" and I had to manually extend it.


I got sick of putting up with this and I tried DisplaySwitch /extend. That didn't work probably because I have two graphics cards appears to only apply to the R9 390.  I finally wrote a program using pInvoke to force the display to enable.  Right now, it is coded explicitly for my system but I could add in some parameters so anyone can use it.  Any interest in such a program?

It would be something like: ExtendDisplay.exe -width 1440 -height 900 -x 1921 -y 150 -refreshrate 60 -bitsperpixel 32 -display 7

If you run it without -display it would show a list of all displays to help you figure out which one to use.


Edit: I polished it up and published it: http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/extenddisplays.220218/


----------



## flmatter (Feb 20, 2016)

Well I upgraded my HD to a ssd finally and reinstalled Win10 Pro. So far so good on my laptop.


----------



## Ahhzz (Mar 2, 2016)

ahahahahah

http://www.howtogeek.com/243581/win...grams-without-asking/?utm_content=buffer61c07

"...
s_ometimes remove apps from users computers. On my own machine, I found that __system information tool Speccy__ was no longer on my computer. Other users are reporting that apps including CCleaner, HWMonitor, and CPU-Z are also missing after an update._" --- From Lifehacker


----------



## Drone (Mar 2, 2016)

Ahhzz said:


> ahahahahah
> 
> http://www.howtogeek.com/243581/win...grams-without-asking/?utm_content=buffer61c07
> 
> ...



Yes that happened to some users with first 1511 version back in November. Wonder why they posted that article recently, because latest W10 builds don't have that problem anymore.


----------



## Retrorockit (Mar 2, 2016)

My issue with WIN10 is the binding arbitration clause. You can't join a class action suit against MS. You have to go after them yourself. Arbitrators are not required to follow the law. Discovery is limited. Arbitrators are not mediators, they're supposed to find for one side or the other, not make their own decisions ( but they often do). Arbitration can work if the parties are equal participants, like  a large corporation, and a large union. The arbitrator knows if he isn't fair he won't be called upon again. However an individual is at a disadvantage because the Arbitrators know they will never see you again, but may look forward to a long and profitable relationship with Microsoft. I'm not a  lawyer, this is just my opinion, but I have participated in some arbitrations. So research this yourself and form your own opinion. Thanks.


----------



## Retrorockit (Mar 6, 2016)

Now I have another issue with WIN 10. I tried it. Well actually I tried to try it.  DSL took 4 hours to download it. Then Windows decided to make a restore point without asking. I use another utility for that that runs outside Windows (very important later). Win 10 said my computer was compatible. The install failed, and my favorite game Grand Prix Legends had disappeared from my computer, who knows what else had been deleted. System restore corrupted my video drivers so I couldn't see the screen to fix it. So I used Rollback Home to restore to a point 2 days earlier. Updated my malware detectors and got on with my life.


----------



## francis511 (Mar 6, 2016)

i actually tried win 10 but it was so SLOW to boot. Rolled back to win7. Good old win7 !


----------



## Retrorockit (Mar 6, 2016)

I still have my HDD with XP on it. I plug it in every now and then. I think I'll install Rollback Reboot. Nothing will ever change then. Restores automatically every start.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Mar 6, 2016)

francis511 said:


> i actually tried win 10 but it was so SLOW to boot. Rolled back to win7. Good old win7 !



It is slow, with fast start on, which it is by default.  I turned it off.  Eventually, it got to starting up quickly as it "learned".


----------



## AsRock (Mar 6, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> It is slow, with fast start on, which it is by default.  I turned it off.  Eventually, it got to starting up quickly as it "learned".



Had same issue with the supposed fast startup too, coursing one or more issue's.


----------



## Drone (Mar 6, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> It is slow, with fast start on, which it is by default.  I turned it off.  Eventually, it got to starting up quickly as it "learned".


Yup, I've heard people reported that problem with fast boot and some had problems with superfetch. Some had problems with random hdd activity spikes (btw in W8.1 too) while others said they didn't notice anything. Really strange, it seems that W10 gives really strange results on different machines. In XP/W7 era people didn't have this kind of problems.


----------



## francis511 (Mar 6, 2016)

It was a problem with dysfunctional vga drivers actually....


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Mar 7, 2016)

Pretty sure Fast Boot ruined my previous SSD.  The BIOS booted faster than the SSD and the SSD wasn't found.


----------



## Kursah (Mar 7, 2016)

I've never seen that occur before...I've used Fast Boot many times with overall great success. HW Fast Boot and many of the vendor variations from GB, MSI, Asus and ASRock, and not had a drive be ruined/damaged from it, so I feel it is more of a configuration issue than a UEFI option killing an SSD, but stranger things have happened.

What I would check in your situation is that the SSD was selected as the OS boot device. Did you have boot security enabled (recommended with Win 8+ and Ubuntu 14+)? I have seen an SSD not be located when another drive is listed as the first boot priority. The OS drive should take the first spot if using Fast Boot, especially when you have all options set to not look or partially look for USB devices, and only use the OS drive. For some reasons some MB's get confused if the OS drive isn't the primary/first boot device and a DVD drive or USB option is set first. 

Was it your MX100 in your system specs?


----------



## Retrorockit (Mar 7, 2016)

IMO ruined SSDs can be caused by Auto Defragmentation being on. I make sure and turn it off with any SSD install.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Mar 7, 2016)

Retrorockit said:


> IMO ruined SSDs can be caused by Auto Defragmentation being on. I make sure and turn it off with any SSD install.



Actually modern OS are intelligent enough to use the "optimize" feature on SSD's. They will only defragment HDD.


----------



## Prima.Vera (Mar 8, 2016)

I still need to understand how to fix that crappy poor font rendering in W10... My eyes are starting to bleeeeeed.


----------



## Kursah (Mar 8, 2016)

Retrorockit said:


> IMO ruined SSDs can be caused by Auto Defragmentation being on. I make sure and turn it off with any SSD install.



8, 8.1 and 10 all use TRIM by default on an SSD during the Defrag command, this is common knowledge though. 7 on Pre-SP1, that's a different story!


----------



## Retrorockit (Mar 8, 2016)

Just remember you're talking to Windows7 Refuseniks here. I guess if something is "common knowledge" that means you don't have to tell anybody when you sell them the SSD.  Almost every list of customer reviews of SSDs has several people who's drive died in a week from this.
No I wasn't one of them. I think maybe "common knowledge"  means your OS does all your thinking for you.


----------



## Kursah (Mar 8, 2016)

Retrorockit said:


> Just remember you're talking to Windows7 Refuseniks here. I guess if something is "common knowledge" that means you don't have to tell anybody when you sell them the SSD.  Almost every list of customer reviews of SSDs has several people who's drive died in a week from this.
> No I wasn't one of them. I think maybe "common knowledge"  means your OS does all your thinking for you.



Actually according to the title this is for Windows 7/8 refuseniks, with that said, 50% of the target audience referred to doesn't have to worry about the auto-defrag issue since the OS performs TRIM upon a defrag request on SSD's. 

I take no pity in folks that can't ask for help or spend a little time researching before upgrading to an SSD. The same goes for BIOS/UEFI flashing, hardware replacement/upgrades, or anything when folks dump money or dig in without taking some time to figure out what the hell they're doing, so they can realize that they can or cannot do it and take the right steps from there. I see it all too frequently on tech forums and on my bench. Keeps my bench tech busy in the end, so it isn't all bad....but for the consumer that is too lazy and exuding ignorance, it sure is. Not that ALL cases are, you'll have the failures and other issues that can cause such failures. There is no argument here though, ignorance is not excusable.

Windows 8 has been handling TRIM right since 2012...4 years now. Plenty of time to be common knowledge in our "gotta have it now" society IMHO.


----------



## Retrorockit (Mar 9, 2016)

When a person is buying their first computer, and maybe due to finances  it's an  old office machine from Dell or HP it's hard for them to know what questions to ask. That's not laziness or ignorance. It's inexperience. Of course as you stated this benefits you financially, and also helps you deal with your inferiority complex at the same time. Windows 8 was a waste of time. Windows 10 is just to get everyone to agree to an arbitration clause so there won't be any class action lawsuits. I actually buy a lot of parts based on ignoring  the advise of people like you. That's why my Dell Dimension E520 from 2006 is running 3.72Ghz Quad core with an R9-285 GPU. Do your customers know that you refer to them as "exuding ignorance". You need to go take a good long look in the mirror my friend.


----------



## AsRock (Mar 9, 2016)

Retrorockit said:


> When a person is buying their first computer, and maybe due to finances  it's an  old office machine from Dell or HP it's hard for them to know what questions to ask. That's not laziness or ignorance. It's inexperience. Of course as you stated this benefits you financially, and also helps you deal with your inferiority complex at the same time. Windows 8 was a waste of time. Windows 10 is just to get everyone to agree to an arbitration clause so there won't be any class action lawsuits. I actually buy a lot of parts based on ignoring  the advise of people like you. That's why my Dell Dimension E520 from 2006 is running 3.72Ghz Quad core with an R9-285 GPU. Do your customers know that you refer to them as "exuding ignorance". You need to go take a good long look in the mirror my friend.



It is ignorance to some degree, you don't go buy a motor bike and just jump on it and think all is well. If you go out blindly buying shit you deserve to get blindly robbed.


----------



## Kursah (Mar 9, 2016)

Retrorockit said:


> When a person is buying their first computer, and maybe due to finances  it's an  old office machine from Dell or HP it's hard for them to know what questions to ask. That's not laziness or ignorance. It's inexperience. Of course as you stated this benefits you financially, and also helps you deal with your inferiority complex at the same time. Windows 8 was a waste of time. Windows 10 is just to get everyone to agree to an arbitration clause so there won't be any class action lawsuits. I actually buy a lot of parts based on ignoring  the advise of people like you. That's why my Dell Dimension E520 from 2006 is running 3.72Ghz Quad core with an R9-285 GPU. Do your customers know that you refer to them as "exuding ignorance". You need to go take a good long look in the mirror my friend.





No need to make it personal, I wasn't personally attacking you. No need for you to base a whole post on getting defensive and attacking me because you can't handle the answer I provided. Please leave the "getting defensive" BS at the door and either stay on topic constructively or troll elsewhere. 

Feel free to review the definition of ignorant, I provided 3 sources for the sake of consistency: 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ignorant
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ignorant

I'm pretty sure I explained my statements clearly enough, but let's try once more for fun...it *IS* ignorant if folks own old system like yours, slap an SSD in it, and migrate their OS over and smoke their new toy because they "didn't know any better". That excuse works when you're not an adult and haven't learned to take ownership of a mistake. How is it not ignorant? Who's gonna buy an SSD that doesn't have Internet or help making such a decision? Who doesn't have access to at least calling a local IT company or tech-savvy family member and ask a few questions that they won't be charged for? Let's get real here...

Many people are technologically ignorant...if you worked in the IT field (which exists in its size because folks choose to be ignorant btw...) you would be well aware of that and also know that many folks willingly admit that they are! Many will click on things, add/remove and tinker, and then admit or deny, but anyone worth their salt can see through the BS and get someone to admit when they're at fault.  Hell, many admit they just spend money on crap they don't even know if they need! Or thought it would fix things, or saw an ad for, or were tricked into buying, etc... it goes on and on and on. How are those smart, intelligent, appropriate, common sense or not ignorant? There's a reason that there's places like TPU, [H], AnandTech, and beyond...there's a reason there's Google, there's a reason there's always that one kid or dude in the family that's computer savvy, there's a reason there's IT companies on multiple operation business levels. 

Windows 8 was a rough start sure, but it did TRIM correctly and has from day one... 8.1 was a solid OS I ran for years without compliant, slapped on Classic Shell and was good-to-go, stable, fast, and supported newer technologies more appropriately...hardly a waste of time and in my experience and number of deployments a clear upgrade from 7. Many folks prefer 7, just like they did XP. Some folks actually got to appriciate Vista SP2, but by then many had moved on or back...was a shame because that was a very damn good version of the OS and still one of the best looking MS OSes ever imho.

10 is solid for me thus far as well, along with the dozens of other deployments I've done. Sure MS made some pretty serious mistakes, but admitting to them was a good move, and thinking that previous OSes weren't already spying on you is laughable at best. Following a long-term OSX-like lifecycle I think is a good idea, but I worry how MS is going to go about it...if I had to revert back to any OS, it will be 8.1 that's for sure. Nothing wrong with 7, but it is getting old in the tooth. I have enjoyed my time with the 10 deployments I use personally and professionally, and hope it keeps trending forward in the future... if not there's always Linux which I also greatly enjoy but isn't any less innocent at grabbing data metrics about what you do without disabling/removing things (looking at you Ubuntu...). Though there's so many other things that watch what we all do, I had a nice, lengthy post about it a few pages ago in this very thread if you're up for a read. Might be helpful, might not, but I invite you to do so.

On the rest of your response to me, if you'd like to have a discussion about professional IT services, customer service, what the meaning of ignorance is, please feel free to PM me, or please feel free to ignore me moving forward. I could care less either way, but not derailing this thread any more than necessary because you got defensive over reality.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Mar 9, 2016)

Retrorockit said:


> Of course as you stated this benefits you financially, and also helps you deal with your inferiority complex at the same time. Windows 8 was a waste of time. Windows 10 is just to get everyone to agree to an arbitration clause so there won't be any class action lawsuits. I actually buy a lot of parts based on ignoring the advise of people like you.



Dude, why so personal?  Why the attitude?  If you are going to argue and debate, then you need to learn more about how to do it.  A good debater can argue passionately for a point of view that isn't his or her own, without getting personal or seeming angry.

And... @Kursah is a damned good guy.  You've pretty much put a good foot forward on a quest to alienate alot of the longstanding members here by taking that attitude.  The same people that might provide you assistance or a second opinion in the future.  

TPU is a fine community of fairly laid back, mostly polite people.  They don't have to be loud, obnoxious or insulting like so many other forums, because their knowledge and experience speaks for itself.


----------



## bogmali (Mar 9, 2016)

I am going to leave some "questionable" comments up for reference unless the poster decides to edit them.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Mar 10, 2016)

Just a word of warning...I wish I could put out a word of warning to non-forum people...MS is up to it's old tricks again.  This is the third month in a row that MS has put out an "OPTIONAL" update that is already ticked to upgrade to W10.  This is even without ANY GWX app running and all previous sneeky attempts by M$ marked as hidden.  It was waiting for me today, even though I already downloaded updates on Patch Tuesday.

Now, just so you know, I have a purchased copy of W10 Pro right here on my desk.  I fully intend to install it fresh within the month.  So why am I concerned?  I'll tell you.

I will move to W10, on my own, because I CHOOSE TO, not because M$ tells me to.  What they are doing will, sadly, ensnare a lot more people who have no desire to upgrade, didn't ask to upgrade, and have their updates on automatic, like M$ tells them to.  This is wrong.

I apologize, I did not look up the KB number issued today, in my haste to UNtick the update and hide it.

Just thought I'd provide a heads up for everyone, as a Public Service Announcement.


----------



## qubit (Mar 10, 2016)

@rtwjunkie MS are setting themselves up to get sued and rightly so. This is very underhanded and wrong.

They must be getting really desperate.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Mar 10, 2016)

qubit said:


> @rtwjunkie MS are setting themselves up to get sued and rightly so. This is very underhanded and wrong.
> 
> They must be getting really desperate.



Yeah, I wish somebody would.  Lucky for me my updates are on auto check, but let me decide what to manually install.

I did make sure to download the windows Updater for W10 from the shady website that Mussels recommended.  I'll be sure to try that out in the test system already in the house.


----------



## AsRock (Mar 10, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Just a word of warning...I wish I could put out a word of warning to non-forum people...MS is up to it's old tricks again.  This is the third month in a row that MS has put out an "OPTIONAL" update that is already ticked to upgrade to W10.  This is even without ANY GWX app running and all previous sneeky attempts by M$ marked as hidden.  It was waiting for me today, even though I already downloaded updates on Patch Tuesday.
> 
> Now, just so you know, I have a purchased copy of W10 Pro right here on my desk.  I fully intend to install it fresh within the month.  So why am I concerned?  I'll tell you.
> 
> ...



Yeah they doing some shit that for sure, i installed windows 7 on the other system activated it and installed win10 on it and had some candy crush game advertising king.com, and uninstalling it tried to contact king.com which failed totally lol.


----------



## Ahhzz (Mar 11, 2016)

One of my clients got hit today, no way to say "Later" or "Cancel", and now she's on 10... and not amused....


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 11, 2016)

My uncle called me two days ago saying his computer is going to upgrade to Windows 10 at 11PM that night.  I convinced him to just let it happen and downgrade if he can't stand it.  At bare minimum, he'll get his copy of Windows 10 reserved in the process.


----------



## Fourstaff (Mar 11, 2016)

FordGT90Concept said:


> My uncle called me two days ago saying his computer is going to upgrade to Windows 10 at 11PM that night.  I convinced him to just let it happen and downgrade if he can't stand it.  At bare minimum, he'll get his copy of Windows 10 reserved in the process.



Not much difference between 7 and 10 unless you are looking inside the hood.


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## FordGT90Concept (Mar 11, 2016)

Yeah, I told him that.  It can be a pain to find buried settings because it was _touchized_ but, for the most part, it should work.  My (his) biggest concern is he runs some older programs (like...really old).  I told him if it works on Windows 7, it should work on Windows 10 too.  I hope that proved true.


----------



## Tatty_One (Mar 11, 2016)

Still on 7, still have auto updates turned off, surprisingly still happy, I can't miss what I never had but I can appreciate what I've already got, my excuse is laziness and contentment, not a good advertisement for a tech site so as always, I am full to the brim with apologies!


----------



## Ahhzz (Mar 11, 2016)

On a Win10 note, I like the new Snipping tool (provides a delay, and more importantly, an email option). Anyone seen a way to move the app to a Win7 box?



Tatty_One said:


> Still on 7, still have auto updates turned off, surprisingly still happy, I can't miss what I never had but I can appreciate what I've already got, my excuse is laziness and contentment, not a good advertisement for a tech site so as always, I am full to the brim with apologies!










Oh crap!!!!  We've got one that's content!!! Call out the fanbois and prove how much better 10 is!!


----------



## Bow (Mar 11, 2016)

W7


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## Liquid Cool (Mar 11, 2016)

*Admins beware: Domain-attached PCs are sprouting Get Windows 10 ads*

Is there no end to their arrogance?  I personally don't believe so and to me...it's quite scary.

Best,

Liquid Cool


----------



## qubit (Mar 11, 2016)

Tatty_One said:


> Still on 7, still have auto updates turned off, surprisingly still happy, I can't miss what I never had but I can appreciate what I've already got, my excuse is laziness and contentment, not a good advertisement for a tech site so as always, I am full to the brim with apologies!


Even though you don't want W10 right now, at some point staying on W7 or W8 will become increasingly untenable. Hence, I strongly recommend imaging your current W7 install onto a spare HDD, upgrading to W10 on the spare HDD and activating it, then continuing to use your original W7. This way, you can install W10 on your original HDD whenever you feel like it after the free period has expired and it will activate, saving you spending £100 on a copy. I recommend keeping that activated copy too, just in case you have activation issues with that copy on the original HDD.


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## Drone (Mar 11, 2016)

registry hack for w7/8 users who don't want to upgrade:

win + r -> regedit -> ok ->

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows

create WindowsUpdate key on the left-hand side
create a new 32-bit DWORD called DisableOSUpgrade on the right-hand side, and give it a value of 1


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 11, 2016)

Liquid Cool said:


> *Admins beware: Domain-attached PCs are sprouting Get Windows 10 ads*
> 
> Is there no end to their arrogance?  I personally don't believe so and to me...it's quite scary.
> 
> ...



That was a good find.  Just another example of the arrogance and used car sales tactics of M$.

I apologize if I unintentionally insulted any reputable used car dealers.


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## Tatty_One (Mar 11, 2016)

qubit said:


> Even though you don't want W10 right now, at some point staying on W7 or W8 will become increasingly untenable. Hence, I strongly recommend imaging your current W7 install onto a spare HDD, upgrading to W10 on the spare HDD and activating it, then continuing to use your original W7. This way, you can install W10 on your original HDD whenever you feel like it after the free period has expired and it will activate, saving you spending £100 on a copy. I recommend keeping that activated copy too, just in case you have activation issues with that copy on the original HDD.


Thanks, when W7 becomes in effect obsolete, I will upgrade to W8, when that is gone I will upgrade to an Android tablet and play candy crush all day in retirement


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## Ahhzz (Mar 11, 2016)

hahahahahah


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## Octopuss (Mar 11, 2016)

I can see myself upgrading when Microsoft is happy with the market share and doesn't release "updates" that mush the damn thing in my face anymore, making me rummage through individual updates' details every week/month, which in turn makes me want to strangle someone and throw him in a pit. Oh and when it's a bit more certain what is the damn system doing in the background.
I am neither hysterical "big brother watching you" paranoid imbecile nor "oh fuckit, ain't got nothing to hide anyway". I think I am somewhere inbetween. I don't think it's really too bad (especially since I don't live in America) as people like to put it, but I like to have some control out of general principle.
I guess I'll consider upgrading in like a year.


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## qubit (Mar 11, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> That was a good find.  Just another example of the arrogance and used car sales tactics of M$.
> 
> *I apologize if I unintentionally insulted any reputable used car dealers.*


There are reputable used car dealers? 



Tatty_One said:


> Thanks, when W7 becomes in effect obsolete, I will upgrade to W8, when that is gone I will upgrade to an Android tablet and play candy crush all day in retirement


Quality sidestep there, T. MS are gonna hate you.


----------



## Frick (Mar 18, 2016)

So I have Windows 10 on the laptop in sig, and my initial feeling is ... kinda sluggish actually, for having an SSD. Definitely not as snappy as Windows 7, and that is with nothing going on in the background. There's a tiny bit of lag to some things. And I made a shortcut folder thing (whatever you call them in english) in the task bar and the items in it have no icons, just a default document icon. Or rather, they do get their proper icons when I click them but then they revert to the document icon. Currently I'm syncing about 12 years of email to the mail app, which I BTW like a whole lot. All my accounts (well not really but close) in one place and it actually works fine without having to mess around with different files and thing being supremely annoying (Outlook, I'm looking at you you smug son of a bitch). Windows Live Mail did it faster, but I'm sure I'll get there eventually.

EDIT: Happy to report that Mouse Without Borders interacts with Windows 7.

BTW, I did the upgrade, not a clean install.

EDIT again: The Wordpress app cost money.


----------



## Octopuss (Mar 19, 2016)

http://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...t-off-date-from-2017-to-2018/#ftag=RSSbaffb68
Looks like I might remain a refusenik a bit longer


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## P4-630 (Mar 19, 2016)

I just recently installed windows 8.1 on my new skylake build 
I'm pretty happy with it, no windows 10 for me yet.


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 19, 2016)

Octopuss said:


> http://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...t-off-date-from-2017-to-2018/#ftag=RSSbaffb68
> Looks like I might remain a refusenik a bit longer



I would have to attribute this "softening" to the less-than-they-hoped-for migration to W10.  And this, despite their sneaky and underhanded tactics to "force" unsuspecting people onto W10.


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## 64K (Mar 19, 2016)

MS makes bold statements and backs down when they are called out on their shit. Hell, Windows 7 (a 2009 Windows OS release) is still for sale eight months after Win 10 was released. There are reasons for that. They said that Xbox One would be online only and would only be sold with Kinect. Backed down on both after console gamers backlash and PS4 sales kicking Xbox One to the curb.

When DX12 adoption is significant with developers I will put Win 10 in on my gaming rig but not until then.


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 27, 2016)

Ok, making the preparations now.  My main rig should be on W10 by later this afternoon.  I'm keeping my old SSD with the 8.1 install in case I need to go back.


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## AsRock (Mar 27, 2016)

OOh, better to









I am sure every thing will be just fine .


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## rtwjunkie (Mar 28, 2016)

Yep! Better than fine! Everything is up and running, and feels like W8.1 on steroids (everything is faster).  Most of my programs have been installed and i have the desktop set how i want (thanks to Start 10).

All complete except some games.  No longer a refusenik.


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## Frick (Mar 30, 2016)

So, their event is underway and it really deserves a new thread but this is definitely a high light:

http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ubuntu-on-windows.html?m=1

Yes, run bash in Windows, natively. Get your grep on, etc.

Also with the Anniversary update they'll remove forced Vsync from the store games and add Gfreesync support. Might be more.

Oh yes and it's supposedly trivial to convert games to UWP and that is coming to Xbox. In the event they added AoE 2 that way. And you can install apps from outside the store, like a good old god fearing .exe.


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## Drone (Mar 31, 2016)

https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2016/03/30/run-bash-on-ubuntu-on-windows

Bash on Windows is a good news for devs, average joes probably won't give a damn


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## Ahhzz (Apr 5, 2016)

I've had windows updates disabled for a LONG time. Ran the GWX control panel today, along with several other tools (Aegis, Never10, SpybotAntiBeacon), and discovered that M$ had _still_ managed to figure out a way to download over 4Gb to a win10 update folder....


----------



## swirl09 (Apr 5, 2016)

Still on Win7 

Tbh, I did think Id be on 10 by now. It felt like they were rushing it out to make the most of the back to school market, so I figured Id let it cook for the rest of the year and upgrade in the new year. But honestly, they've been so sly, and the constant pestering to upgrade has annoyed me! I just keep putting it off. Seriously the cheek of one of their attempts, a window came up with 2 options, one was a straight forward 'YES', the other was something along the lines of later, which I took as a "not right now(go away)" rather than a "later-TODAY". Clicked the later option and a download began! I aborted....

Not that it matters much now, Ill be building a broadwell-E soon enough and might as well go with a fresh W10 at that point.


----------



## Frick (Apr 7, 2016)

I've been playing around with Cortana and .... make her interact with Netflix and spotify and I'm sold. Make her able to understand "go to youtube.com and play a Metallica playlist". If they make it so I can browse the web using her, I never have to leavy my couch again! I can just lay there with my hands behind my head, being fed by tubes. But seriously, it will be excellent.


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## rtwjunkie (Apr 7, 2016)

Frick said:


> I've been playing around with Cortana and .... make her interact with Netflix and spotify and I'm sold. Make her able to understand "go to youtube.com and play a Metallica playlist". If they make it so I can browse the web using her, I never have to leavy my couch again! I can just lay there with my hands behind my head, being fed by tubes. But seriously, it will be excellent.



That is perfect!  It sounds like you need the Toilet-Chair from the movie Idiocracy!












EDIT:  I fear however, that your path to Nirvana, would leave you looking like Mr. House of FNV:


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## Frick (Apr 7, 2016)

Indeed! It gets messy pretty fast.

On a serious note though, with some improvements making voice control a core concept of Windows is, I think, pretty awesome. I have a sister with a trashed spine sho could really benefit from it. In a demo, I think, a guy essentially tells her to "send Dave that file" and she did, and that is awesome in many ways. The problem is that, obviously, for us to be Tony Stark all that you do has to be recorded and saved somewhere so she has something to reference. In a closed systems with controlles ins and outs that might not be a problem, but you HAVE to interact with someone/something on the outside. I really have no problems with that if she does indeed become a fully fledged voice controlled semi intelligent digital assistant, baked into the OS. Right now the mic on my laptop is always on. I shall think about it and maybe rant about it.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Apr 7, 2016)

Frick said:


> Indeed! It gets messy pretty fast.
> 
> On a serious note though, with some improvements making voice control a core concept of Windows is, I think, pretty awesome. I have a sister with a trashed spine sho could really benefit from it. In a demo, I think, a guy essentially tells her to "send Dave that file" and she did, and that is awesome in many ways. The problem is that, obviously, for us to be Tony Stark all that you do has to be recorded and saved somewhere so she has something to reference. In a closed systems with controlles ins and outs that might not be a problem, but you HAVE to interact with someone/something on the outside. I really have no problems with that if she does indeed become a fully fledged voice controlled semi intelligent digital assistant, baked into the OS. Right now the mic on my laptop is always on. I shall think about it and maybe rant about it.





That does sound very cool actually.


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## rtwjunkie (Apr 7, 2016)

I've had her on my phone for the last 3 years, and she really can take care of most basic functions that you would like to do.  

The novelty for me wore off quickly, but she is fairly prepared for almost anything that the device you are using is capable of.

I think on a computer in a home, given enough time, as you said, she could be quite a useful assistant for someone like your sister.


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## dorsetknob (Apr 13, 2016)

New Road map reviled ( no not a spelling mistake ) for Win 10
*MICROSOFT HAS REVEALED* its Windows 10 Roadmap, outlining features aimed at business users that are currently in development, or almost ready to implement on the pushy operating system.

The Windows 10 Roadmap site went live over the weekend, according to veteran Microsoft watcher Mary Jo Foley writing on the All About Microsoft blog.

The site provides a valuable snapshot of features recently made available, along with those in public preview or still under development and testing, and even those that have been dropped from Windows 10.

A glance at the list shows that multifactor authentication for apps and websites is currently in Public Preview for Windows 10, along with the Edge Extensions feature that lets users download add-ons for the Edge browser.

Also in public preview is one of Microsoft's headline features for corporate users of Windows 10. Enterprise Data Protection is intended to give organisations greater control over data through file-level encryption, and leak prevention through policies that govern the applications that can be used to access corporate data, for example.

Currently still in development is the Windows Defender Advanced Threat Protection service that Microsoft detailed last month. This is a combination of endpoint and cloud-based tools intended to provide a post-breach layer of protection to the Windows 10 security stack.

Also listed as still under development are Start menu updates, a way to unlock a PC with a Windows or Android smartphone, and a bunch of features to enhance the usability of Windows 10, including improvements to the Microsoft Passport two-factor authentication system that can use biometrics.

Microsoft is working on updates to the Continuum feature that adapts the user experience to the type of peripherals connected, such as enabling a Continuum-compatible phone to display via a monitor connected to a Windows 10 PC.

Also under development is a 'Remote Display Experience' that will allow users to control Windows 10 IoT Core applications from any Windows 10 desktop PC, tablet, or phone, while the Windows 10 IoT Core device will be able to get sensor readings from any connected Windows 10 device.

Microsoft warned that the roadmap page is for "informational purposes only" and may change at any time without notice. µ

"" New back door for Hackers"" ????  
Source http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...dows-10-roadmap-reveals-upcoming-biz-features


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## BlackSun59 (Apr 16, 2016)

I'll stick with 7 as long as my present still-working-well hardware will support it. I dislike no Classic GUI, 10's Fisher-Price graphics, not being able to change system fonts without registry hacks, crippled printer drivers, forced updates, keylogging and spying, and a few other things I can't recall. 
Someone else in my family just got a Chuwi Win10 tablet. Some things work the same as 7, but it sure looks ugly to me.


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## OneMoar (Apr 16, 2016)

meh I have no had one single issue with windows 10 as for the shell..
if it really bothers you startisback++ is the way to go well worth the 3 bucks


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## AsRock (Apr 16, 2016)

BlackSun59 said:


> I'll stick with 7 as long as my present still-working-well hardware will support it. I dislike no Classic GUI, 10's Fisher-Price graphics, not being able to change system fonts without registry hacks, crippled printer drivers, forced updates, keylogging and spying, and a few other things I can't recall.
> Someone else in my family just got a Chuwi Win10 tablet. Some things work the same as 7, but it sure looks ugly to me.



Better stop browsing the web then as they keylog all the time.


----------



## OneMoar (Apr 16, 2016)

contrary to what the internet would have you believe windows 10 is not spying on you or anybody else anyone that believes that is windows is magically spying on you  anymore then google/apple already does is a moron
google and apples data collection make Microsoft look like rank-amateur at least microsoft has the decency  to say hey we are gonna send this so we can better serve you add and such


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## Ahhzz (Apr 16, 2016)

OneMoar said:


> contrary to what the internet would have you believe windows 10 is not spying on you or anybody else ......


nah, you're right man! 
_
"
But in order to illustrate just how popular Windows 10 has become, Microsoft felt the need to share some milestones:
_

_People have spent over 11 billion hours on Windows 10 in December alone._
_Over 44.5 billion minutes spent in Microsoft Edge across Windows 10 devices in just the last month._
_Over 2.5 billion questions asked of Cortana since launch._
_Around 30% more Bing search queries per Windows 10 device vs. prior versions of Windows._
_Over 82 billion photos viewed within the Windows 10 Photo app._
_Gaming continues to grow on Windows 10 – in 2015, gamers spent over 4 billion hours playing PC games on Windows 10._
_Gamers have streamed more than 6.6 million hours of Xbox One games to Windows 10 PCs._


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## BlackSun59 (Apr 17, 2016)

OneMoar said:


> contrary to what the internet would have you believe windows 10 is not spying on you or anybody else anyone that believes that is windows is magically spying on you  anymore then google/apple already does is a moron
> google and apples data collection make Microsoft look like rank-amateur at least microsoft has the decency  to say hey we are gonna send this so we can better serve you add and such


LOLOL
If you want to consider me a moron because of what I've read and researched starting even before Win10 went beta, you go right ahead. I'll just rely on my over 35 years of experience dealing with computers, OSes, reading and research. Thanks for playing.


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## dorsetknob (Apr 17, 2016)

Blind man wearing sunglass'es says "no one is spying on me ,  if they were i would see them"


----------



## jboydgolfer (Apr 17, 2016)

i actually installed 10 on one of my PC's, and whenever the damned thing wakes up from sleep, it shows the desktop, and just hangs for like 10-20 seconds. I can see everything, but i cant click anything, or open anything, Really annoying.anyone encounter this, or know of a solution?


----------



## FordGT90Concept (Apr 17, 2016)

It's probably starting all of the sleeping threads.  There might be one that is causing explorer.exe to hang.


----------



## OneMoar (Apr 17, 2016)

either that or something chewing up a bunch of i/o

@BlackSun59  the post was not directly at solely you, tho you are still wrong
https://blog.robseder.com/2015/08/16/whats-the-real-deal-with-windows-10-and-privacy/
to quote: levar burton hey don't take my my word for it: grab wire-shark and check it yourself

again Microsoft has nothing on google and apple
all this non-sense started when some Czech guy posted a bunch of hyperbole claims and people took it as the sworn truth ...because people are idiots


----------



## R-T-B (Apr 17, 2016)

dorsetknob said:


> "" New back door for Hackers"" ????



I'd be more concerned about RDP.


----------



## Caring1 (Apr 17, 2016)

jboydgolfer said:


> i actually installed 10 on one of my PC's, and whenever the damned thing wakes up from sleep, it shows the desktop, and just hangs for like 10-20 seconds. I can see everything, but i cant click anything, or open anything, Really annoying.anyone encounter this, or know of a solution?


Try disabling Intel Smart Connect in the BIOS.


----------



## Flow (Apr 17, 2016)

OneMoar said:


> either that or something chewing up a bunch of i/o
> 
> @BlackSun59  the post was not directly at solely you, tho you are still wrong
> https://blog.robseder.com/2015/08/16/whats-the-real-deal-with-windows-10-and-privacy/
> ...



Still, google and apple do this from day one ( Well, apple probably not from the actual day one they started) and ms only since a short while.
I suppose with the history windows versions have, people are quick to jump on the bandwagon. "

But anyway, I don't see much wrong or better in win10 compared to win 7. I still do like the new start menu, edge is not very pleasant to use, ms uploads the monthly patches to my pc no matter what setting I use.
There is much to like, and much to dislike.
I guess in a matter of time all will be forgotten and most will be on the win10 train, especially when dx12 games start to really take off.

As for charts showing user numbers, I tend to take those with a grain of salt, because when a product is succesfull, there is no need to produce such numbers to start with.


----------



## alucasa (Apr 17, 2016)

As a self-proclaimed tech savvy person, I believe in moving forward and embracing new things instead of standing still and dodging the trend with myriad of excuses.

Therefore, I chose to use Windows 10 just like I keep updating my Fedora machine to the latest build.


----------



## Mindweaver (Apr 18, 2016)

Just a reminder for everyone, no personal attacks.


----------



## natr0n (Apr 18, 2016)

Having tested so many versions of windows 10, ltsb is the best period. Only issue is no store or apps.

It pisses me off how some games are exclusive to win 10.

Still trying to make up my mind on what os to use having multiple drives and such. Some games work on 8.1 but not on 10. lots of headache and bs for me this week.


----------



## Tatty_One (Apr 18, 2016)

alucasa said:


> As a self-proclaimed tech savvy person, I believe in moving forward and embracing new things instead of standing still and dodging the trend with myriad of excuses.
> 
> Therefore, I chose to use Windows 10 just like I keep updating my Fedora machine to the latest build.


By definition your comment suggests (even if not intended) that newer technology should be embraced (which in general I agree), would that include new technology that is inferior to old?  There are plenty of cases out there where newer technology either performs worse than what it replaces or takes something away that some users may still want.


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## dorsetknob (Apr 18, 2016)

Tatty_One said:


> By definition your comment suggests (even if not intended) that newer technology should be embraced (which in general I agree), would that include new technology that is inferior to old? There are plenty of cases out there where newer technology either performs worse than what it replaces or takes something away that some users may still want.



Technology such as the Playstation which in the name of Progress Sony Crippled its functionality with firmware updates to remove Some functions from its equipment that a vast number of people used 
I am of course referring to the ability to Run Linux


----------



## jboydgolfer (Apr 18, 2016)

Caring1 said:


> Try disabling Intel Smart Connect in the BIOS.



it is disabled.

i have noticed something else tho.
when it does this it does the "device attached" sound for win10 once it unfreezes.
almost like something has been recognised, and now it can work.


----------



## Mussels (Apr 18, 2016)

jboydgolfer said:


> it is disabled.
> 
> i have noticed something else tho.
> when it does this it does the "device attached" sound for win10 once it unfreezes.
> almost like something has been recognised, and now it can work.



hard drive being slow to power up could explain that. if your bios has hotswap options for the sata ports, try turning that off for the ports you're using?


----------



## GelatanousMuck (Apr 18, 2016)

_*Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes*_

_*There is nothing really free in life, I guarantee you Microsoft has a hidden agenda.*_


----------



## qubit (Apr 18, 2016)

Mindweaver said:


> Just a reminder for everyone, no personal attacks.


Aww dammit I was gonna take a pop at you.


----------



## jboydgolfer (Apr 18, 2016)

Mussels said:


> hard drive being slow to power up could explain that. if your bios has hotswap options for the sata ports, try turning that off for the ports you're using?



i have only SSd's.
and the boot is quick.
i can switch ports easy enuff, but i dont think that it


----------



## Mussels (Apr 18, 2016)

i guess focus on any hardware that windows thinks is plug and play. storage devices, monitors, whatevs.


----------



## OneMoar (Apr 18, 2016)

if he has a media server running with a large libary that can take a few seconds to spool up
I would open control panel > power > change plan settings> and do the following
1. disable hibernate
2. disable fast boot
3. disable shutting drives down after x period 
that should fix it


----------



## P4-630 (Apr 21, 2016)




----------



## dorsetknob (Apr 28, 2016)




----------



## ne6togadno (Apr 29, 2016)




----------



## silentbogo (Apr 29, 2016)

Drone said:


> https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2016/03/30/run-bash-on-ubuntu-on-windows
> 
> Bash on Windows is a good news for devs, average joes probably won't give a damn


Kinda a bit late... been using Cygwin for quite a few years, when such need arised. Even x64 version worked flawlessly.


@jboydgolfer , You might want to check your HDD / RAM usage, and whether the pagefile is enabled. I recently had the same problem on my ITX rig, which only had 3GB RAM and an old/slow 200GB Samsung HDD at the: the OS would hang every few minutes for ~10sec, and only stabilize after 20 minutes. Issue disappeared after disabling the page file. Also it is worth noting that few months ago I ran Win10 on PCs with 2GB[!!!] of RAM and never had this problem, so it might be related to one of the recent updates.


----------



## qubit (Apr 29, 2016)

P4-630 said:


>


Love it. Picture saved.


----------



## Frick (May 10, 2016)

So, UWP games will be better. Soon the forced Vsync thing will go.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/...veloper-complaints-in-universal-windows-apps/


----------



## rtwjunkie (May 10, 2016)

Frick said:


> So, UWP games will be better. Soon the forced Vsync thing will go.
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/...veloper-complaints-in-universal-windows-apps/



Sarcasm?   I ask, because I don't think that's all of the UWP game problems.


----------



## Frick (May 10, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Sarcasm?   I ask, because I don't think that's all of the UWP game problems.



Better. As in incremental.  Still ways to go obviously, but they're working on it.


----------



## abbutec (May 10, 2016)

hi all , i return to my old w7 64 pro , w10 no way . ihad trubles with my printer ( lexmark x2470) and then ; i could nod install the old driver cd .
may be someone have similar problems and get a solution . THX and good time , bye bye


----------



## Drone (May 11, 2016)




----------



## jboydgolfer (May 11, 2016)

abbutec said:


> hi all , i return to my old w7 64 pro , w10 no way . ihad trubles with my printer ( lexmark x2470) and then ; i could nod install the old driver cd .
> may be someone have similar problems and get a solution . THX and good time , bye bye



My printer was a nightmare also, i ended up looking in devices,and noticed my printer was listed 3 times,all witha different name. I.e. 5820 aio, aio,5820, hp 5820, etc, i found the one that worked,set IT as default,and mow it works fine.b4 couldnt print from online.had to save to file,and was a pita.now,all is well.


----------



## Ahhzz (May 11, 2016)

Looks like M$ is rolling back the "Share my wireless keys with everyone I know!" function...


----------



## Solaris17 (May 11, 2016)

Flow said:


> Still, google and apple do this from day one ( Well, apple probably not from the actual day one they started) and ms only since a short while.
> I suppose with the history windows versions have, people are quick to jump on the bandwagon. "
> 
> But anyway, I don't see much wrong or better in win10 compared to win 7. I still do like the new start menu, edge is not very pleasant to use, ms uploads the monthly patches to my pc no matter what setting I use.
> ...




Thanks for taking the time to post something intelligent, I also agree that alot of this is overblown. Its not like OSX hasn't done this since forever. Like everything else though it will pass and the internet will find something else to hate. I am a little disappointing that TPU was subject to gizmodo and toms level comments however. 

I remember when XP came out. Man you should have seen the but hurt. People HATED the what was it? "Tooth paste buttons"

10 years later they cry themselves to sleep because its being taken out back. History comes full circle I guess.


----------



## HTC (May 11, 2016)

Drone said:


>



Only 4166 to go ... lol ...


----------



## Mussels (May 11, 2016)

Solaris17 said:


> Thanks for taking the time to post something intelligent, I also agree that alot of this is overblown. Its not like OSX hasn't done this since forever. Like everything else though it will pass and the internet will find something else to hate. I am a little disappointing that TPU was subject to gizmodo and toms level comments however.
> 
> I remember when XP came out. Man you should have seen the but hurt. People HATED the what was it? "Tooth paste buttons"
> 
> 10 years later they cry themselves to sleep because its being taken out back. History comes full circle I guess.




everyone hates every version of windows when its new.

also, toothpaste buttons? what the flying fook


----------



## Octopuss (May 11, 2016)

I liked/loved Windows 7 ever since I installed one of the pre-release leaked builds 
I hated every version of Windows 8/8.1/10 I tried.


----------



## Ahhzz (May 11, 2016)

Mussels said:


> everyone hates every version of windows when its new.
> 
> also, toothpaste buttons? what the flying fook


not true. Liked XP, loved 7, hated Vista, ME, 8. 10 would be ok without all the spying, adn the auto-driver forcing, and the auto-update forcing.... hmm... it looks ok, anyway


----------



## qubit (May 11, 2016)

Drone said:


>


Oh if only, lol.

I'm actually nerdy enough to try it, too... Who's with me?!


----------



## Drone (May 11, 2016)

qubit said:


> Oh if only, lol.
> 
> I'm actually nerdy enough to try it, too... Who's with me?!


Haha, it's possible to split it and make floppy bootable. How much would 4167 floppies cost?


----------



## qubit (May 11, 2016)

Drone said:


> Haha, it's possible to split it and make floppy bootable. How much would 4167 floppies cost?


I'd really like to see it split like that. I have a feeling that Microsoft would have to do it, though.

And as to the cost? Well, since floppies are no longer on general sale I'd say quite a lot of money since the price will inevitably increase significantly.

In fact, you'd have to buy more floppies to replace the ones with errors on (there will be loads, plus you'll need a separate image for each floppy replaced) and probably an extra floppy drive or two as they might just wear out before the install is finished.

Damn, I so wanna do this.


----------



## Tsukiyomi91 (May 11, 2016)

Windows 8 & 8.1 beta builds was a rather decent testing, despite the lack of support when it came out.


----------



## Toothless (May 11, 2016)

Am i the only one who likes the tile start menu in 8.1? I keep mine clean.


----------



## Drone (May 17, 2016)

MS simplifies updates for Windows 7 and 8.1

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com...17/simplifying-updates-for-windows-7-and-8-1/

Updates have historically been published on the Microsoft Download Center and the Microsoft Update Catalog.  Security Bulletins have linked directly to update packages on the Microsoft Download Center. To simplify this, within the next few months Windows updates will no longer be available from the Microsoft Download Center.  Security bulletins will continue to link directly to the updates, but will point to the packages on the Microsoft Update Catalog instead of the Microsoft Download Center. Customers that use tools linking to the Microsoft Download Center should follow the links provided in the Security Bulletins or search directly on the Microsoft Update Catalog.

For those who aren’t familiar with the Microsoft Update Catalog website, note that it still requires using Internet Explorer at this point because of an ActiveX control used.  Later this summer, we will be updating the site to eliminate the ActiveX control in order to support other browsers.

As always, all updates will still be available via WSUS, SCCM, and Windows Update – this change is only for manual downloads.


----------



## Drone (May 18, 2016)

For W7 SP1 lovers:

Convenience Rollup for Windows 7 SP1

The convenience rollup package acts like SP2 for Windows 7 and includes all security patches and almost all the non-security updates for operating system core components released after Windows 7 SP1. This package is cumulative meaning once you install it you won't have to install updates released up to May 2016.

Download:

KB3125574 x64

KB3125574 x86


----------



## HTC (May 19, 2016)

Drone said:


> For W7 SP1 lovers:
> 
> Convenience Rollup for Windows 7 SP1
> 
> ...



Question: can we take out some of the more "telemetric" updates after we install this convenience thing? Or don't those come with it?


----------



## rtwjunkie (May 19, 2016)

HTC said:


> Question: can we take out some of the more "telemetric" updates after we install this convenience thing? Or don't those come with it?



Good question!  Also, it would be good to know if it included any of the various updates which install GWX.


----------



## HTC (May 19, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Good question!  Also, it would be good to know if it included any of the various updates which install GWX.



For example.

Sure: it may be convenient but, if it adds allot of hassle to get rid of stuff like that ... probably not a good thing.


----------



## eidairaman1 (May 19, 2016)

hey @rtwjunkie, go to askwoody.com and there's alot of info on the updates. Otherwise look up their KB article, some state upgrade compatibility checks etc. I heard MS might be fixing WUD for W7, AFAIK i recently updated 3 days ago, seems to be moving quicker on updates.


----------



## Mussels (May 19, 2016)

this rollup update is goddamn neccesary


----------



## Caring1 (May 19, 2016)

Despite constantly clicking NO on those annoying GWX pop ups, my son's computer started the forced "upgrade" to W10 last night and got stuck on 71% for at least 5 hours. 
This morning he turned it off because he was sick of waiting and it reverted back to 7 all by itself. 
Hopefully M.S. learns something from this and listens to what the customer wants, not what they think is best for us.


----------



## Octopuss (May 19, 2016)

HTC said:


> Question: can we take out some of the more "telemetric" updates after we install this convenience thing? Or don't those come with it?


I wouldn't dig into the package. That would be pain in the arse.
In my opinion, it's best to simple uninstall the W10 related junk afterwards.
Just create a .bat or .cmd file and paste this in it:

```
for %%A in (2952664 2977759 2990214 3021917 3035583 3068708 3074677 3075249 3080149 3081437 3081454 3081954 3123862) do (
echo Uninstalling KB%%A...
wusa.exe /kb:%%A /uninstall /quiet /norestart)
```

Depending on your paranoia level, you can add more KB numbers according to this supposedly updated list.

edit:
You can take it one level up and disable those updates from appearing again.
Create a .vbs file and paste this in:

```
Dim hideupdates(7)

hideupdates(0) = "KB2952664"
hideupdates(1) = "KB2977759"
hideupdates(2) = "KB3021917"
hideupdates(3) = "KB3035583"
hideupdates(4) = "KB3068708"
hideupdates(5) = "KB3075249"
hideupdates(6) = "KB3080149"

set updateSession = createObject("Microsoft.Update.Session")
set updateSearcher = updateSession.CreateupdateSearcher()

Set searchResult = updateSearcher.Search("IsInstalled=0 and Type='Software'")

For i = 0 To searchResult.Updates.Count-1
set update = searchResult.Updates.Item(i)
For j = LBound(hideupdates) To UBound(hideupdates)
'MsgBox hideupdates(j)
if instr(1, update.Title, hideupdates(j), vbTextCompare) = 0 then
  'Wscript.echo "No match found for " & hideupdates(j)
else
Wscript.echo "Hiding updates..." & hideupdates(j)
update.IsHidden = True
end if
Next
Next
```
disclaimer: I have no idea WTF the second thing does, I just copied it from somewhere


----------



## GreiverBlade (May 19, 2016)

well turned out i got win 10 on both of my rigs ...

windows history (not counting 3.1/95/98/98SE )
good:
XP=>7=>10 (and a small exception for 8.1 which was a better than 8 but not totally at my taste)

and the one i did regret installing
ME=>Vista=>8 (altho win 8 i only tested it in CP ) 

O&O ShutUp 10 and Classic Shell mad me like Win10




HTC said:


> Question: can we take out some of the more "telemetric" updates after we install this convenience thing? Or don't those come with it?


O&O ShutUP 10 does it


oh ... wait for Win7 ? aherm ... my apologies i did crossread


----------



## Drone (May 19, 2016)

HTC said:


> Question: can we take out some of the more "telemetric" updates after we install this convenience thing? Or don't those come with it?





rtwjunkie said:


> Good question!  Also, it would be good to know if it included any of the various updates which install GWX.



I don't know if this rollup includes telemetry stuff, have no real/virtual W7 machine atm. As for GWX, Microsoft won't bug you to upgrade to Windows 10 after July 29th.


----------



## Ahhzz (May 19, 2016)

Drone said:


> ......As for GWX, Microsoft won't bug you to upgrade to Windows 10 after July 29th.


aaaaaahahahahahahhahahahahahahahha


----------



## AsRock (May 19, 2016)

qubit said:


> I'd really like to see it split like that. I have a feeling that Microsoft would have to do it, though.
> 
> And as to the cost? Well, since floppies are no longer on general sale I'd say quite a lot of money since the price will inevitably increase significantly.
> 
> ...



You what ?, you can get them still, just kinda expensive, you can get USB drives for them too which i have one of those too lol.


----------



## qubit (May 19, 2016)

AsRock said:


> You what ?, you can get them still, just kinda expensive, you can get USB drives for them too which i have one of those too lol.


While they can be bought if you know where to look, they don't have the wide availability they used to since they're obsolete. That's what I'm saying by "general availability".


----------



## AsRock (May 19, 2016)

Amazon lol, plenty of them.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=floppy+disks


----------



## cornemuse (May 20, 2016)

Checked "* Other" Not W7 ? W8, but rather XP refusenik!
I am still getting used to W7 on my laptop, All my desktops are XPP 32 & 64.
I can handle 7, but 8-10-etc, (especially 10) I do not like. Yeah, new, different, but not necessarily better, imho.
Have several flavors of ubuntu, but too much win stuff I cant make run on it, & no linux replacements.

I happen to be 69 yrs -> young. You'll find out, as I have, the older one gets, the harder it is to accept change.
(edit: should prolly point out I am a retired heavy equipment operator, bulldozers & stuff, never really needed computers, more a hobby for me, , , )
First computer was a Timex Sinclair 1000, still have it, somewheres. Got it early 1980's

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timex_Sinclair_1000

Was pretty neat for the day.

-c-


----------



## AsRock (May 20, 2016)

hated those buttons on that thing even the rubber ones lol, although it was ZX80 that i had.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX81


----------



## Frick (May 21, 2016)

Can I do an upgrade from Win7 and change the serial to a Windows 10 key? So I get to keep the Windows 7 key I mean, and I really want to upgrade instead of a fresh install to keep my keyboard shortcuts.


----------



## Caring1 (May 21, 2016)

Frick said:


> Can I do an upgrade from Win7 and change the serial to a Windows 10 key? So I get to keep the Windows 7 key I mean, and I really want to upgrade instead of a fresh install to keep my keyboard shortcuts.


If 10 is like 7, under System it should allow you to change the product key.
That way you should be able to save the Win 7 key for later use.


----------



## Mussels (May 21, 2016)

Caring1 said:


> If 10 is like 7, under System it should allow you to change the product key.
> That way you should be able to save the Win 7 key for later use.




i dont think it works that way - it might have already sent the key to microsoft for eatery.


----------



## xkm1948 (May 22, 2016)

Just upgraded my HTPC to Windows 10 from 7. Man the experience is way better than 7. WIsh I did the upgrade earlier. Also since it is my entertainment PC I enabled Cortana. Very good assistant comparing with Siri TBH.


----------



## HTC (May 22, 2016)

Drone said:


> For W7 SP1 lovers:
> 
> Convenience Rollup for Windows 7 SP1
> 
> ...



Just tried to install the x64 and got this after a while:


----------



## xkm1948 (May 22, 2016)

HTC said:


> Just tried to install the x64 and got this after a while:
> 
> View attachment 74870



Back up important file. Then install brand new from USB drive or DVD with your windows 7 key.


----------



## Drone (May 22, 2016)

HTC said:


> Just tried to install the x64 and got this after a while



Do you have KB3020369 installed? It's pretty old one (April 2015) but KB3125574 requires it. Anyway.. if you don't have that then install KB3020369 x64 and after that install convenience rollup package.


----------



## HTC (May 22, 2016)

Drone said:


> Do you have KB3020369 installed? It's pretty old one (April 2015) but KB3125574 requires it. Anyway.. if you don't have that then install KB3020369 x64 and after that install convenience rollup package.







Any other ideas?


----------



## rtwjunkie (May 22, 2016)

Frick said:


> Can I do an upgrade from Win7 and change the serial to a Windows 10 key? So I get to keep the Windows 7 key I mean, and I really want to upgrade instead of a fresh install to keep my keyboard shortcuts.



I'm pretty sure it operates like all past upgrades...you can no longer use the license on the original.  This way also, they can ensure all those pesky old OS disappear.


----------



## Drone (May 23, 2016)

HTC said:


> View attachment 74871
> 
> Any other ideas?



Stop Windows Updates service, then empty SoftwareDistribution folder and try again. Unfortunately I don't know what caused that error.


----------



## eidairaman1 (May 23, 2016)

uninstall the update through programs in Control panel


----------



## HTC (May 24, 2016)

Drone said:


> Stop Windows Updates service, then empty SoftwareDistribution folder and try again. Unfortunately I don't know what caused that error.



Tried it: no work 



eidairaman1 said:


> uninstall the update through programs in Control panel



Doesn't allow: it's one of those that can't be un-installed.


----------



## Ahhzz (Jun 3, 2016)

With all their gyrations and tricks to force users to Win10 (Any guesses as to why the Win10 Market share keeps going up so drastically? ), I believe I'm just passing on my original plan. I have zero intention to install 10 on either of my PCs now, free or not. Thinking about moving my server to a Linux build, if I can find one that does all the file sharing I need, and just holding pat on my win 7 ultimates. ... freaking microsoft....


----------



## Frick (Jul 8, 2016)

Took the plunge and it feels good. Turned off as much telemetry and whatever as possible. One of my two complaints resolved when I disabled AlwaysMouseWheel, and it turns out it's redundant anyway since Windows 10 seems to have the function (you don't have to "activate" windows - clicking on them - before scrolling in them, it is really hard to live without it when you're used to it) built in. The second complaint might resolve after a reboot - no sound as of yet. It installed drivers, so we'll see. When I reboot, which is rarely. It's fast, but still annoying.

The UI is still kinda split between two worlds (tablet-everything-huge-buttons and old style desktop), but it's not as jarring as Windows 8. "Settings" don't actually contain all settings that should be there, you still need the Control Panel and its associated tools for many things.


----------



## AsRock (Jul 8, 2016)

Frick said:


> Took the plunge and it feels good. Turned off as much telemetry and whatever as possible. One of my two complaints resolved when I disabled AlwaysMouseWheel, and it turns out it's redundant anyway since Windows 10 seems to have the function (you don't have to "activate" windows - clicking on them - before scrolling in them, it is really hard to live without it when you're used to it) built in. The second complaint might resolve after a reboot - no sound as of yet. It installed drivers, so we'll see. When I reboot, which is rarely. It's fast, but still annoying.
> 
> The UI is still kinda split between two worlds (tablet-everything-huge-buttons and old style desktop), but it's not as jarring as Windows 8. "Settings" don't actually contain all settings that should be there, you still need the Control Panel and its associated tools for many things.



But all you have to do is right click the start to get control panel, before you had to add it for it to be there before.


----------



## Frick (Jul 8, 2016)

AsRock said:


> But all you have to do is right click the start to get control panel, before you had to add it for it to be there before.



The complaint is not the logistics in gettings there, it's that the various settings are spread out in different places, and there are several ways of doings things. One example is adding printers: You have the old Devices and printers in the Control panel AND Devices in Settings. To some extent they overlap but not entirely.


Got the sound to work. I removed anything Creative -> shut down -> remove card, disabled internal sound (just for the sake of it) -> boot -> shut down -> install card -> boot -> download drivers from Creative home page -> install -> works.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 8, 2016)

i wish MS would just give us a damn link to updated ISO's we could fresh install from, and skip this poop.

ya know, call em service packs or whatever.


----------



## Frick (Jul 8, 2016)

Sigh, I think my SSD is borked. Went into sleep mode, then the computer just refused to start. Had to unplug the power cord and attach it again for it to boot, but then it was only running for about a minute before locking up, in BIOS. Removed all non essential parts, BIOS ran fine. Tried booting from the SSD, no system disk detected. WTHHHHHHH

EDIT: No it isn't, just the bootstuff it seems. Blergh-de-blob.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 8, 2016)

that does sound like SSD fails... maybe UEFI/secure boot/fast boot borky in BIOS?


----------



## basco (Jul 8, 2016)

going back to win7 after random win 8.1 mouse disconnects adventures with logi g400s+mx518


----------



## Mussels (Jul 8, 2016)

USB 3 port, USB 2.0 device.

W7 - 24MB/s
W10 - 39MB/s
(with 837GB of files to move, you can have a guess which one i'm preferring)

I unno guys, W10 has a few sneaky improvements under the hood


----------



## HTC (Jul 8, 2016)

Mussels said:


> USB 3 port, USB 2.0 device.
> 
> W7 - 24MB/s
> W10 - 39MB/s
> ...



I'm not doubting that but i question the cost it comes @.

Microsoft is attempting to shove W10 on our throats, with shady stuff under it's hood, and employing questionable tactics to do it. Dunno about you but i find that disturbing.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 8, 2016)

Everyone on TPU is automatically three smarts smarter than a non-TPU plebs.

That means we're call capable of using a manual windows update tool and disabling the telemetrics, and getting W10 without the cost 


edit: and i've been getting everyone i know with 7/8 to disable the windows update service, and they love their new minty fresh non laggy OS


----------



## Frick (Jul 8, 2016)

HTC said:


> I'm not doubting that but i question the cost it comes @.
> 
> Microsoft is attempting to shove W10 on our throats, with shady stuff under it's hood, and employing questionable tactics to do it. Dunno about you but i find that disturbing.



The deployment has been annoying, that I agree on. Most of the other stuff can be disabled, and improvements are made.


----------



## HTC (Jul 8, 2016)

Frick said:


> The deployment has been annoying, that I agree on. *Most of the other stuff can be disabled*, and improvements are made.



Most of the other stuff should not have even been there to begin with ...


----------



## Frick (Jul 8, 2016)

What exactly is the telemetry that is being sent, with everything turned off but not registry/group policy edited? I've read some about it, but it doesn't seem very clear.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 8, 2016)

oh its no worse than the older OS's did, or even what google/apple do - the main problem is no easy method to turn some of it off.

O&O's shutup10 is a good all in one program to turn them off, and other options that were harder to disable (things like windows defender, which has gotten easier in modern builds)


----------



## Frick (Jul 8, 2016)

Mussels said:


> oh its no worse than the older OS's did, or even what google/apple do - the main problem is no easy method to turn some of it off.



And what is that exactly? Like I have some live panels in the start meny, that alone require a wealth of information to deliver.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 8, 2016)

Frick said:


> And what is that exactly? Like I have some live panels in the start meny, that alone require a wealth of information to deliver.



anything you search for in the cortana menu is sent to MS, even if its not being searched for online, the default windows defender uploads files to MS servers for cloud scanning (for some threat types), windows updats that can download or install at any time - things like that.

Personally i want it off because i want a clean gaming machine without any random lag - some people get very paranoid about any network traffic at all.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 8, 2016)

And then there are people like me who have stopped caring.


----------



## AsRock (Jul 8, 2016)

cdawall said:


> And then there are people like me who have stopped caring.



Then you have the people why they have no privacy and 1/2 the time it's their fault.


----------



## Kursah (Jul 8, 2016)

HTC said:


> Most of the other stuff should not have even been there to begin with ...



Thing is a lot of the privacy concerns folks have with 10, and what MS and other articles have advertised about what information Win 10 shares about privacy and what you do on your PC have been done for some time with other OSes (not just MS either...hell even some Linux distros are guilty), apps, companies, memberships, websites, programs, games, etc.

Too little too late to worry and fuss now...best thing to do is be proactive, block what you can, use what you are comfortable with. Too many folks are all of a sudden concerned now with Windows 10...when they should've been 20 years ago. Not saying MS is innocent here, but rather they've been doing this for years, along with everyone else...good luck keeping your privacy private while on the grid. Even if you stopped Windows 10 from sharing everything (you can't), there's still 100's if not 1000's of other metrics by which your activity is being recorded and measured.


----------



## laszlo (Jul 8, 2016)

unfortunately sooner or later i'll be forced to go with 10 due gaming....

i know is possible to block ports in router... did anyone tried to block the ports used by M$ ?


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jul 8, 2016)

Kursah said:


> Thing is a lot of the privacy concerns folks have with 10, and what MS and other articles have advertised about what information Win 10 shares about privacy and what you do on your PC have been done for some time with other OSes (not just MS either...hell even some Linux distros are guilty), apps, companies, memberships, websites, programs, games, etc.
> 
> Too little too late to worry and fuss now...best thing to do is be proactive, block what you can, use what you are comfortable with. Too many folks are all of a sudden concerned now with Windows 10...when they should've been 20 years ago. Not saying MS is innocent here, but rather they've been doing this for years, along with everyone else...good luck keeping your privacy private while on the grid. Even if you stopped Windows 10 from sharing everything (you can't), there's still 100's if not 1000's of other metrics by which your activity is being recorded and measured.



So much information about everyone is already known about all of us, that this scene from the near-futuristic movie Minority Report is going to be reality before long.  As Kursah said, the time to have fought against it was 20 years ago.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 8, 2016)

AsRock said:


> Then you have the people why they have no privacy and 1/2 the time it's their fault.



ISP monitors my traffic, microsoft monitors my traffic, NSA monitors my traffic I may as well post my logs on the door at this point.


----------



## AsRock (Jul 8, 2016)

cdawall said:


> ISP monitors my traffic, microsoft monitors my traffic, NSA monitors my traffic I may as well post my logs on the door at this point.



My ISP monitors my connection too but they should do, microsoft has no reason to except personal gain at your cost. Same goes with NSA they should do too as they need to do there jobs to help to keep everyone safe.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jul 8, 2016)

AsRock said:


> My ISP monitors my connection too but they should do, microsoft has no reason to except personal gain at your cost. Same goes with NSA they should do too as they need to do there jobs to help to keep everyone safe.


 Watch the video I posted.  It's all about marketing!


----------



## AsRock (Jul 8, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Watch the video I posted.  It's all about marketing!



They can market all they like i know i block 99.9% of ads, except those sites allow.

And in any case if you have a problem with your ISP advertising move long or don't  have a ISP if your that bothered.

When you agree to a ISP you agree to what they do and if your not aware of what they going to do then maybe you should not be agreeing in the fist place.


----------



## cdawall (Jul 8, 2016)

You agreed to the same collection of information when you hit agree on the TaC on your Microsoft license.


----------



## Deleted member 110753 (Jul 8, 2016)

I still use WinXPproSp3 and Win7pro64 for a lot of reasons.
I tested Win10proSp1, it's an OS for kids (or gamers)...


----------



## P4-630 (Jul 8, 2016)

Well, I'm still not interested in 10  The windows 7 laptop I wanted to try it on refused windows 10 
And new games will be still playable in DX11.

Regards,

Windows 8.1 user.


----------



## AsRock (Jul 9, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> Well, I'm still not interested in 10  The windows 7 laptop I wanted to try it on refused windows 10
> And new games will be still playable in DX11.
> 
> Regards,
> ...



I feel like it might be a mistake later on time, if MS is willing to sue a 13 yo for a domain name that sounds like Microsoft (MikeRoweSoft) and offer $10 to buy it who knows what evil crap they have installed for us lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_vs._MikeRoweSoft


----------



## rougal (Jul 9, 2016)

I'm still on w7. Why? No driver support from Asus for My Mobo... Not gonna upgrade until this mobo is dead, by then i'll have force myself to upgrade to w10 on a newer setup.


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 9, 2016)

I recently picked up a version of W7 upgrade for $3 
Now I can build another system with Vista, with the legal software I have and own, and then go straight to 7.


----------



## qubit (Jul 9, 2016)

rougal said:


> I'm still on w7. Why? No driver support from Asus for My Mobo... Not gonna upgrade until this mobo is dead, by then i'll have force myself to upgrade to w10 on a newer setup.


Is your W7 a retail copy? If so, upgrade anyway* and activate it. That way when you get a new mobo, your retail licence _should_ enable you to activate it (perhaps by phone) on that new mobo too without spending money. If you've got an OEM copy then this won't work.

*Image your current installation onto a spare HDD, disconnect the original HDD and upgrade that. You can then delete it after that. I use Paragon Hard Disc Manager for imaging as it's very good. It's not free software though.


----------



## Frick (Jul 9, 2016)

HiSpeed said:


> I tested Win10proSp1, it's an OS for kids (or gamers)...



Why?


----------



## Deleted member 110753 (Jul 9, 2016)

Frick said:


> Why?


The 2D Lego interface (named Metro) for advertising... I hate it on my workstations...


----------



## qubit (Jul 9, 2016)

HiSpeed said:


> The 2D Lego interface (named Metro) for advertising... I hate it on my workstations...


Agreed it's garbage, however, it's trivial to deal with. Just install the free Classic Shell and it all goes away. Bliss. 

www.classicshell.net


----------



## Deleted member 110753 (Jul 9, 2016)

qubit said:


> Agreed it's garbage, however, it's trivial to deal with. Just install the free Classic Shell and it all goes away. Bliss.
> 
> www.classicshell.net


Yes, I use it, but it's much easier to customize Win7 than Win10.
I've no time to waste to suppress useless tools, services, processes, etc.


----------



## Frick (Jul 9, 2016)

HiSpeed said:


> The 2D Lego interface (named Metro) for advertising... I hate it on my workstations...



That makes no sense whatsoever. If you really feel that way, why the fudge do you even use a GUI at all? That is definitely a matter of taste. Here, this is for you. 

Seriously, after spending some desktop time with it I think I prefer the Win10 GUI to Windows 7. Yes, it's different, and they should definitely improve some things. Like the Notification center. That is a good thing, but it can definitely use some work. And if you use the Start meny in any other way than just hitting winkey+typing you're doing it wrong. Even the Store is a good thing, at least the idea of it. It wouldn't have been a good idea or even concept ten years ago, but the smartphone revolution changed all that. The upcoming Anniversary update also brings goodies: Bash in Windows (natively), use Windows Hello (the log in thing, fingerprint scanners etc) in apps/webpages supporting it, mirroring Android notifications which is awesome. The catch with the last one is that it seemingly needs Cortana, which makes it less useful. Cortana doesn't know swedish, and I have a Swedish OS. I've no problem with english, but still.

Now, about Cortana. Yes, the concept is annoying if your view of a computer is a workstation from the 90's. Which is fine, part of me also want to go back to that glorious time. But that is, for good and bad, not the way things are moving. I tried voice control on the laptop, and I actually love the concept. If we can get to a point when I can just direct WhatsHerFace (it's always a she) to play a playlist on Spotify and dictate and send a mail to someone, with an attached file while doing something else entirely ... I love that idea. It's a while to get there. The downside is, as reiterated too many times, privacy. Which is why I think these assistants should be avaliable for purchase and be allowed to set up in an enclosed network. It'll never happen though, at least not with the big players. In time there might come along an open source assistant, when IoT-botnets has taken over 10% of the internet traffic and every program/application and site has support/APIs for assistants and bots. It all has to start somewhere though. If it at all happens. Maybe MS will crash and burn in five years and everyone will switch to monolithic systems and The Year of Linux Desktop will finally happen.

I have no idea what I just wrote.


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 9, 2016)

Frick said:


> I have no idea what I just wrote.


tl;dr?


----------



## qubit (Jul 9, 2016)

HiSpeed said:


> Yes, I use it, but it's much easier to customize Win7 than Win10.
> I've no time to waste to suppress useless tools, services, processes, etc.


Ok, but it only takes a minute to install it. Give it a go and let us know what you think.


----------



## Deleted member 110753 (Jul 9, 2016)

qubit said:


> Ok, but it only takes a minute to install it. Give it a go and let us know what you think.


_You've misunderstood, it's installed, and I like it !_


----------



## qubit (Jul 9, 2016)

HiSpeed said:


> _You've misunderstood, it's installed, and I like it !_


Ah, ok, of course. Only just got up and haven't had my morning coffee and breakfast yet.


----------



## Deleted member 110753 (Jul 9, 2016)

Frick said:


> Seriously, after spending some desktop time with it I think I prefer the Win10 GUI to Windows 7.


It's your choice, if you prefer a tablet OS with advertising and spying...


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jul 9, 2016)

qubit said:


> Agreed it's garbage, however, it's trivial to deal with. Just install the free Classic Shell and it all goes away. Bliss.
> 
> www.classicshell.net



Or, if you don't mind $5, the even better Start 10 from Stardock.


----------



## RejZoR (Jul 9, 2016)

Windows 10 Start menu is perfectly fine. It's actually very configurable and I actually like it more than the one in Win7. Plus, you can decide between classic and full screen mode from Win8.x.


----------



## Nobody99 (Jul 9, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> Windows 10 Start menu is perfectly fine. It's actually very configurable and I actually like it more than the one in Win7. Plus, you can decide between classic and full screen mode from Win8.x.


The letters of the alphabet are a real turn off, they just take up more space in what was supposed to be a classic start menu, and prolong the time you need to look for something.


----------



## RejZoR (Jul 9, 2016)

Search field. It's faster than clicking through arranged submenus really.


----------



## Nobody99 (Jul 9, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> Search field. It's faster than clicking through arranged submenus really.


Sometimes I don't remember what is the name of the application but I know in which folder it resides, and sometimes the name of the application is an acronym. In any case, it would be better if you could hide the letters.


----------



## AsRock (Jul 9, 2016)

RejZoR said:


> Search field. It's faster than clicking through arranged submenus really.



You can all so click a letter too, which will give all the letters and then you just pick one.

Thing is if he's forgetting what he is or has installed that's more user error than any thing else.


----------



## Nobody99 (Jul 9, 2016)

AsRock said:


> Thing is if he's forgetting what he is or has installed that's more user error than any thing else.


Not an error, programs have sometimes a lot of tools and then there are acronyms which makes it hard to remember something like that and more troubling is remembering the foreign translations of Windows programs, it would be nice if I could search for them by their English names.


----------



## Tsukiyomi91 (Jul 10, 2016)

Anniversary Update is coming in a few days... might wanna get the ISO & see if the built-in crapware removal tool works as advertised by MS.


----------



## Deleted member 110753 (Jul 10, 2016)

Win7 is not dead !

The Win7 market share re-increases !


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jul 10, 2016)

HiSpeed said:


> Win7 is not dead !
> 
> The Win7 market share re-increases !



So, having only looked at the graph, my best guess is those are people who have rolled back their W10 install.  

You can be sure all the math does not add up, because I guarrantee MS is still counting those people as W10 adoption.  LOL, double stats all around I bet!  

Total of all OS would probably come up to 110% when it's all counted up and finished.


----------



## Mr.Scott (Jul 10, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> So, having only looked at the graph, my best guess is those are people who have rolled back their W10 install.
> 
> You can be sure all the math does not add up, because I guarrantee MS is still counting those people as W10 adoption.  LOL, double stats all around I bet!
> 
> Total of all OS would probably come up to 110% when it's all counted up and finished.


Not disputing your methodology but if what you say here is true, then the actual W10 user figure would be lower.


----------



## dorsetknob (Jul 10, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> You can be sure all the math does not add up, because I guarrantee MS is still counting those people as W10 adoption. LOL, double stats all around I bet!



Lies and statistics you can manipulate them to say what you want Goverments Do it All the time.
So Do Advertisers

80 out of 100 people just install Blah Blah   
200 in 1000 Refuse to install Blah Blah
whats the Difference = How you interpret the given information


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jul 10, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> Not disputing your methodology but if what you say here is true, then the actual W10 user figure would be lower.



You're quite possibly right. It just depends on which side prepares statistics.  

I know I see things double counted where I work for different purposes depending on what the current goal/agenda is. It's laughable.


----------



## Mr.Scott (Jul 10, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> You're quite possibly right. It just depends on which side prepares statistics.
> 
> I know I see things double counted where I work for different purposes depending on what the current goal/agenda is. It's laughable.


They do the same thing where I work also. lol


----------



## laszlo (Jul 11, 2016)

hi ,can somebody reply to my question from earlier post: 

" i know is possible to block ports in router... did anyone tried to block the ports used by M$ ?"

thanks!!


----------



## Deleted member 110753 (Jul 11, 2016)

laszlo said:


> " i know is possible to block ports in router... did anyone tried to block the ports used by M$ ?"


Hi,

This is a very interesting subject but you should probably open a special thread into the "Networking & Security" zone...


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 19, 2016)




----------



## Toothless (Jul 20, 2016)

I caved and "upgraded" however I see no performance difference at all in anything. Besides wasting my time it's pretty similar to Win8.1


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jul 20, 2016)

Toothless said:


> I caved and "upgraded" however I see no performance difference at all in anything. Besides wasting my time it's pretty similar to Win8.1



I think you'll find file transfer speeds are faster.  That's one positive.  

As a bonus you get to share all your personal info and habits with MS.   LOL.  Personally don't care tho.


----------



## ViperXTR (Jul 20, 2016)

Still on Windows 7. System is still running fine no issues but also now thinking of going Windows 10. Is it fine to just update or completely remove windows 7 and freshly install Windows 10? (Haven't formatted for a long time and it's a pain to set up everything again)


----------



## Toothless (Jul 20, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> I think you'll find file transfer speeds are faster.  That's one positive.
> 
> As a bonus you get to share all your personal info and habits with MS.   LOL.  Personally don't care tho.


I used that telemetry turnoff thingy that Mussels has.


----------



## Kursah (Jul 20, 2016)

ViperXTR said:


> Still on Windows 7. System is still running fine no issues but also now thinking of going Windows 10. Is it fine to just update or completely remove windows 7 and freshly install Windows 10? (Haven't formatted for a long time and it's a pain to set up everything again)



Sure you can just update, but I recommend doing a backup first.

Download Macrium Reflect Free, create an image of your current hard drive as-is onto a USB HDD for safe keeping, also create the bootable CD (to allow you to restore later on if you hate 10). Upgrade to 10. 

You can also roll back from 10, but I've seen this fail a few times...though I've seen it work fine more times than not. 

Or you can get a different HDD to test 10 and just use your current Win 7 product key to install 10 onto the drive as a fresh installation.


----------



## Octopuss (Jul 20, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> I think you'll find file transfer speeds are faster.  That's one positive.
> 
> As a bonus you get to share all your personal info and habits with MS.   LOL.  Personally don't care tho.


I saw an article few months ago somewhere where the person basically did a sort of a benchmark with various identical operations comparing Windows 7, 8.1 and 10, and with like one exception 10 was significantly slower than 7.


----------



## Mussels (Jul 20, 2016)

at a recent LAN, we noticed from my 64GB USB 3 thumbdrive that all the win10 systems transferred files a lot faster. Win 7 was the slowest, most likely due to lack of integrated USB 3 drivers.


----------



## Nobody99 (Jul 20, 2016)

Using registry keys for disabling and enabling updates is a really bad solution from Microsoft. Even Linux supports GUI for handling updates.


----------



## Frick (Jul 23, 2016)

Nobody99 said:


> Using registry keys for disabling and enabling updates is a really bad solution from Microsoft. Even Linux supports GUI for handling updates.



The "solution" is making every update automatic.


Anyway, can you activate a Windows 10 clean install with a Windows 7 OEM key?

EDIT: Indeed it does, I just mistook several B's with 8's. I blame my cold.


----------



## Frick (Jul 29, 2016)

Ah, the settings for updates actually do change on their own. Other MS apps and sharing updates thing was turned on. That is actually quite annoying. I probably don't mind them being turned on by default, but at least notify me if you change settings for me, mkay?


----------



## Ahhzz (Aug 19, 2016)

Woohoo!!! Windows 10 RULES!!!!!








...you. 


http://www.ghacks.net/2016/08/19/windows-10-annoyance-system-apps/

_You may have noticed that removed apps appear again on a device running Windows 10 after major updates._


----------



## P4-630 (Aug 19, 2016)

Ahhzz said:


> Woohoo!!! Windows 10 RULES!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great! 

I hope these annoying things won't be there anymore when I upgrade to 10  (in a couple of years).....


----------



## rtwjunkie (Aug 19, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> Great!
> 
> I hope these annoying things won't be there anymore when I upgrade to 10  (in a couple of years).....



No, they will double and triple down on them.


----------



## Ithanul (Aug 19, 2016)

Yeah, I notice that on my lappy that I put W10 edu on.  It is annoying as heck....only reason I have it on my lappy is for class work, and at least be familiar with it in case one of my relatives and friends have issue with that OS.

So far not many of them have W10 thankfully.  Plus W7 going to be my Dad's last Window OS, he got pretty pissed off with Windows of late.  He even dislike W7, and well when he saw W8.....that how I got my current free laptop from him (it had W8 on it previously).


----------



## Frick (Aug 20, 2016)

1607 breaks webcams

(in short, the bit that connects to the webcam data no longer supports compressed formats, meaning that if Skype tries to use 1080p - which obviously  would be way to much for USB2.0 uncompressed - the video freezes. And this information wasn't readily avaliable, that's the worst part)

You know how they restructured the company a while back? Their QA functions got outsourced to consumers. I understand why they want to have everyone on the same version, but for one: QA, and for two (as the article also says): just tell people what you're changing.


----------



## P4-630 (Aug 26, 2016)

I'm still one of the 7.8% 

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0


----------



## Drone (Aug 26, 2016)

According to AdDuplex majority of W10 users are still on 1511 build and almost nobody cares about rs2 preview builds


----------



## P4-630 (Aug 26, 2016)

So it seems we do get a new windows version afterall?
Since windows 10 EOL is in 2025....


----------



## Nobody99 (Aug 26, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> So it seems we do get a new windows version afterall?
> Since windows 10 EOL is in 2025....


The version released in July 2015 will be obsolete in 2025, newer builds will always be supported. Although I have been asking myself as to how will Microsoft earn money if people won't buy new server editions.


----------



## TheinsanegamerN (Aug 26, 2016)

I was a huge windows 10 supporter, then the anniversary update came out.

I used to be able to set updates to "update when I restart" but now must select a time. And I cant set "used time" to 24hrs. And they went and changed up the start menu yet again, AND broke my webcam and my family's webcam, so welcome to trying to troubleshoot webcams remotely. What a pain. Users are not, and should not be used as, QA testers.

So glad my desktop stayed minty fresh. My laptop will probably be moved to mint when it gets replaced. And W7 will remain my GoG machine for the near future.


----------



## dorsetknob (Aug 26, 2016)

Nobody99 said:


> Although I have been asking myself as to how will Microsoft earn money if people won't buy new server editions.


Simple
"windows as a Service($$$ = you want this part of the O/S to work PLEASE SUBSCRIBE )


----------



## 64K (Aug 26, 2016)

dorsetknob said:


> Simple
> "windows as a Service($$$ = you want this part of the O/S to work PLEASE SUBSCRIBE )



A yearly fee is a possibility. They did it with MS Office. They could just do security updates for Win 10 for free but if you wanted the updates with improved or added features then pay for a yearly license.


----------



## Nobody99 (Aug 26, 2016)

This should make companies reevaluate their choice of an OS for a server, reducing costs has always been important.


----------



## dorsetknob (Aug 26, 2016)

Even Intel was thinking of this Stratagy
what happened to the planned Download a Microcode Update to unlock extra CPU functionality.
Intel Planned on Releasing
New Cpu's with Certain Parts Disabled but Could be "" UNLOCKED BY A PAID MICROCODE DOWNLOAD ".

Anyone else Remember this


----------



## P4-630 (Aug 26, 2016)

dorsetknob said:


> Even Intel was thinking of this Stratagy
> what happened to the planned Download a Microcode Update to unlock extra CPU functionality.
> Intel Planned on Releasing
> New Cpu's with Certain Parts Disabled but Could be "" UNLOCKED BY A PAID MICROCODE DOWNLOAD ".
> ...



Don't know about that, from the 90s?


----------



## Nobody99 (Aug 26, 2016)

For clarification my argument was against SaaS. I only remember when Microsoft released an update that actually came from Intel and disabled overclocking on non-K CPUs.


----------



## dorsetknob (Aug 26, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> Don't know about that, from the 90s?



More Recent than the 90's I believe
late 2000 to 2012 ish  ( google tells me 2010 )
think it was about unlocking cores and CPU Cache levels and other functions that could be set and then adjusted by micro code updates
*P4-630*
EDIT   for those completely unaware of what i was on about
HAVE A READ HERE
https://www.engadget.com/2010/09/18/intel-wants-to-charge-50-to-unlock-stuff-your-cpu-can-already-d/


----------



## P4-630 (Aug 26, 2016)

dorsetknob said:


> More Recent than the 90's I believe
> late 2000 to 2012 ish  ( google tells me 2010 )
> think it was about unlocking cores and CPU Cache levels and other functions that could be set and then adjusted by micro code updates
> *P4-630*
> ...



"you should know that Intel's just testing it out on this low-end processor in a few select markets for now."

That was in 2010 I read, it probably wasn't a success.


----------



## Nobody99 (Aug 26, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> "you should know that Intel's just testing it out on this low-end processor in a few select markets for now."
> 
> That was in 2010 I read, it probably wasn't a success.


A lot of people don't even know that Intel disables cores and features on their CPUs, this is like throwing these facts into their face.


----------



## dorsetknob (Aug 26, 2016)

P4-630 said:


> That was in 2010 I read, it probably wasn't a success.


Probably to susceptible to Hacking by Clever IT techs and Results either hosted on dubious Servers for Torrent Downloads with updating instructions which would then bypass " Intels UPGRADE" and potential revenue Stream 

You want a similar example Socket 771 to socket 755   Xeon upgrades
with a little mod 771 Xeon CPU will fit a Socket 755 Motherboard
But most 775 motherboards require a Microcode injection to Recognize a modded Xeon 771 CPU

Enough of this BACK TO THE OP SUBJECT MATTER we Drifted off subject even if its intresting


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Aug 26, 2016)

I updated 2 systems out of 5(?).  My game tower and laptop went 7->10, my wife's office tower and laptop stayed on 7, and there's a spare Dell desktop in the closet that's still got 8.1, plus some other mothballed systems I haven't touched in months that are running who-knows-what.

Although, with the Windows Update issues I'm having on a clean install on the office tower (new platform), I'm about ready to give Windows the finger.  Again. (Was Linux-only for a few years in the 2000s)


----------



## TheOne (Aug 27, 2016)

64K said:


> A yearly fee is a possibility. They did it with MS Office. They could just do security updates for Win 10 for free but if you wanted the updates with improved or added features then pay for a yearly license.


Windows 10 Enterprise E3 and E5 are supposed to be monthly subscriptions.


----------



## yotano211 (Aug 27, 2016)

I am still on windows 7 pro on the business laptop and 8.1 with a windows 7 shell on the gaming laptop.


----------



## Ahhzz (Sep 29, 2016)

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/microsoft-pays-windows-10-installs-230921512.html


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 29, 2016)

Ahhzz said:


> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/microsoft-pays-windows-10-installs-230921512.html



Lol, wow, but yeah that seems like a bonafide complaint there. It's a good example of some people really did not understand what Microsoft did.


----------



## 64K (Sep 29, 2016)

Ahhzz said:


> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/microsoft-pays-windows-10-installs-230921512.html



The response from MS:

“We were saddened to learn of the problem this family faced with our products and we are committed to working directly with our customers to address their needs,” Microsoft told The Register. “We will continue to listen to customer feedback and make improvements based on what we are hearing from our customers.”

wtf?


----------



## qubit (Sep 29, 2016)

64K said:


> The response from MS:
> 
> “We were saddened to learn of the problem this family faced with our products and we are committed to working directly with our customers to address their needs,” Microsoft told The Register. “We will continue to listen to customer feedback and make improvements based on what we are hearing from our customers.”
> 
> wtf?


I know, the bullshit stinks.


----------



## Ahhzz (Sep 29, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> Lol, wow, but yeah that seems like a bonafide complaint there. It's a good example of some people really did not understand what Microsoft did.


I have to admit, I'm surprised some of our crankier clients didn't try the same thing when I had to roll back their machines due to software incompatiblity, etc. I had to charge them for M$'s tactics. I _have_ had more than one try to bill the local ISP on occasion when it turned out to be their equipment, and I had to spend time troubleshooting a down network.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Sep 29, 2016)

Ugh Ive had to do that after a customers personal IT guy disconnected a few ethernet lines for Uverse TV a few years back, after i fixed the mess I told him fire him and get another that knows what he is doing.


----------



## AsRock (Sep 29, 2016)

64K said:


> The response from MS:
> 
> “We were saddened to learn of the problem this family faced with our products and we are committed to working directly with our customers to address their needs,” Microsoft told The Register. “We will continue to listen to customer feedback and make improvements based on what we are hearing from our customers.”
> 
> wtf?



So they nothing then lol.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Sep 29, 2016)

AsRock said:


> So they nothing then lol.



Um, what does that mean, exactly?


----------



## AsRock (Sep 29, 2016)

Meaning nothing changed.


----------



## 80-watt Hamster (Sep 29, 2016)

AsRock said:


> Meaning nothing changed.



Maybe not, but I'm somewhat surprised that the guy got what he asked for without setting foot in court.  Not that $650 means much to MS.


----------



## Ahhzz (Sep 29, 2016)

80-watt Hamster said:


> Maybe not, but I'm somewhat surprised that the guy got what he asked for without setting foot in court.  Not that $650 means much to MS.


No court means no precedent.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Sep 29, 2016)

Ahhzz said:


> No court means no precedent.



However, it is still sort of, tho not a legal one. Attorneys will bring that up before a judge and MS counsel in future pretrial negotiations.


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## HTC (Sep 29, 2016)

Micro$hit is SOOOOOOO in need of a good fat juicy lawsuit up their behinds ... perhaps then they actually start thinking and end this charade ...


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## Atomic77 (Oct 2, 2016)

Microsoft will do what ever they effin want to do. They are so big now that nobody can stop them.


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## Nuckles56 (Oct 2, 2016)

These days I have both win 8.1 (with start 8) and win 10 (with classic shell), and honestly, I prefer the look of windows 8.1 as I dislike the childishness of the the win 10 icons. Overall I don't see that much difference, but I haven't been using 10 for very long.


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## Drone (Oct 10, 2016)

*Tomorrow [Oct. 11]*, Microsoft will begin patching Windows 7, 8.1, Server 2008 R2, Server 2012 & R2

The coming changes are big, welcomed by some, and feared by others. Microsoft's record of releasing faulty patches has more than a few admins wondering if the convenience of patch rollups will be worth the trade-off.

In a blog post, Microsoft officials said the company will be releasing the following:

*1. A security-only quality update*, which will include all new security fixes for that month, will be published only to Windows Server Update Services (WSUS) and used by Configuration Manager and the Windows Update Catalog.

*2. A security monthly quality update (also known as the "monthly rollup")* that will contain all new security fixes for a month (the same ones in the security-only quality update), plus fixes from all previous monthly rollups. This one gets published to Windows Update for consumer PCs, WSUS, and the Windows Update Catalog.

*3. A preview of the security monthly quality rollup (also known as the "preview rollup")* that will contain a preview of new, non-security fixes that will be in the next monthly rollup, plus fixes from all previous monthly rollups. The security-only quality update will be on Patch Tuesday (or "B" week in Microsoft parlance).

http://www.zdnet.com/article/micros...ahead-of-first-monthly-windows-patch-rollups/


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## Ahhzz (Oct 10, 2016)

Drone said:


> *Tomorrow [Oct. 11]*, Microsoft will begin patching Windows 7, 8.1, Server 2008 R2, Server 2012 & R2
> The coming changes are big, welcomed by some, and feared by others. Microsoft's record of releasing faulty patches has more than a few admins wondering if the convenience of patch rollups will be worth the trade-off...../


So glad all mine have Auto Updates off....


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## Drone (Oct 10, 2016)

Ahhzz said:


> So glad all mine have Auto Updates off....


True. Rolling back fucked up updates takes a lot of time and most importantly nerve cells lol
Lately big patches for iOS, Win 7 or 10 are getting really unpredictable. How many times I've heard that testers/insiders complained that patch 'x' can cause an issue for some users yet devs decide to release them anyway and later admit "yeah we know it's fucked, we'll fix it later".


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## Ithanul (Oct 10, 2016)

Yep, that been talked about on another forum I visit.

Ugh.....I'm so not looking forward to dealing with those when updating computers at the Guard unit.  Last year was a pain in the rear when one update disliked our W7 32bit machines.  Thank goodness it was the ones only used for internet browsing, etc.(aka, Internet Cafe for flight crews)  Not the important 100+ ones used for the exercise.  It kept nuking out IE and 100% load on one core when it did.


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## Ahhzz (Oct 10, 2016)

Drone said:


> True. Rolling back fucked up updates takes a lot of time and most importantly nerve cells lol
> Lately big patches for iOS, Win 7 or 10 are getting really unpredictable. How many times I've heard that testers/insiders complained that patch 'x' can cause an issue for some users yet devs decide to release them anyway and later admit "yeah we know it's fucked, we'll fix it later".


Had to bill a client 2 1/2 hours last week due to a video card update on a Win10 all-in-one that wouldn't roll back, and whatever it corrupted, I couldn't get it booting out of safe mode except by using the generic M$ drivers for video... Doesn't need high frame rates for her job, so I left it like that without trying to manually stripping whatever got missed. 
Then there was the patch a few months ago that completely screwed up the html intro page on Creative Solutions products, shutting down 3 of our accountant office-clients until we figured out what had happened...


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## dorsetknob (Oct 10, 2016)

Win 10 Good for _Buisness


Ahhzz said:



			Had to bill a client 2 1/2 hours last week due to a video card update on a Win10 all-in-one that wouldn't roll back, and whatever it corrupted,
		
Click to expand...


Not so Good for the Client_


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## Drone (Nov 1, 2016)

MS ends sales for PCs with Windows 7/8.1 preinstalled (oem)


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## Ahhzz (Nov 2, 2016)

Aw, fucknuts


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## Aquinus (Nov 2, 2016)

Considering MS managed to screw up my Windows installation twice since I've upgraded to 10, I can say there is a damn good reason why I'm not running Windows anymore. I like Windows 10 itself and how it performs. As an OS, I really do like it. What I hate is this uncontrolled upgrade bullshit that seems to continuously break my machine. It's great when it works but, every time there is a "major" update, it's like upgrading to Vista all over again.

Windows 10 is a combination of all the thing we love *and* hate about Windows.


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## Mussels (Nov 2, 2016)

i just disable windows updates (via my sig, as i keep saying) and have zero issues. i only ever do major upgrades via the ISO method.


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## Octopuss (Jan 9, 2017)

http://news.softpedia.com/news/wind...ude-drivers-from-windows-updates-511642.shtml

http://news.softpedia.com/news/micr...part-of-aero-glass-in-windows-10-511646.shtml


I might give the damn system another shot in a year or so if this really happens.


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## P4-630 (Jan 9, 2017)

Octopuss said:


> http://news.softpedia.com/news/wind...ude-drivers-from-windows-updates-511642.shtml
> 
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/micr...part-of-aero-glass-in-windows-10-511646.shtml
> 
> ...



If it's true, thats good news then.
I will probably wait a little longer before getting w10 because I still hear people complaining that windows 10 gets borked after some larger update, once M$ has fixed this I might give it a shot.

Still waiting at least a year from now though.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 9, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> If it's true, thats good news then.
> I will probably wait a little longer before getting w10 because I still hear people complaining that windows 10 gets borked after some larger update, once M$ has fixed this I might give it a shot.
> 
> Still waiting at least a year from now though.




the slow down on Windows update results from the WUD client in SP1, askwoody.com has the best solution for that issue. I'm still on W7 and in matter of fact just put 7 on a 754 Rig with 3GB ram- runs good for what it is lol.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Jan 9, 2017)

P4-630 said:


> If it's true, thats good news then.
> I will probably wait a little longer before getting w10 because I still hear people complaining that windows 10 gets borked after some larger update, once M$ has fixed this I might give it a shot.
> 
> Still waiting at least a year from now though.


Since a day 1 install I've had no issues with 10 that I did not cause and no update has broken my pc, fingers crossed, it's on all day everyday flat out too.
I had issues BIOS flashing GPUs then getting it working ,and I swapped from a r9 380 to these 480s that also was a pain for some driver related reason or I suspect my top pciex has seen too much abuse.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 9, 2017)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> Since a day 1 install I've had no issues with 10 that I did not cause and no update has broken my pc, fingers crossed, it's on all day everyday flat out too.
> I had issues BIOS flashing GPUs then getting it working ,and I swapped from a r9 380 to these 480s that also was a pain for some driver related reason or I suspect my top pciex has seen too much abuse.



I'd still do a fresh OS install and a Backup.


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## RealNeil (Jan 9, 2017)

The last time that I used Win-10 with a build, it worked great for a week. Then, one of its updates installed and rebooted the PC.
It never booted after that. I tried everything to get it back, but nothing worked.

It was an i7-4770K with 16GB of RAM installed on an ASUS H81 board. 
I was using a 480GB Kingston HyperX Savage SSD and it was all in an InWin 901 case (750W Gold PSU) with Push/Pull Corsair water cooling for the CPU.

I don't need this kind of crap in my life. All of you young Bucks can play with it.


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## nomdeplume (Jan 9, 2017)

It was inevitable I find this thread after mildly sassing Bill_Bright over Windows when he was already worked up.  The only use I've found for W10 is serving media on a computer without network access.  The upgrades to music and video quality are amazing even on an outdated machine.


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## TheGuruStud (Jan 9, 2017)

I still have THREE major mem leaks on shit10. I had four, but fixed one by uninstalling shitel RST driver. This never happened on 8. Same hardware and same drivers (aside from being win10 ver). PC has been on for 3 days and already 12GBs has leaked.

I had to use 4 (count em) tools to totally disable all the bullshit that comes with 10 LOL. As you can't trust hosts file to block M$, I also have it blocked in the router.


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## Kursah (Jan 9, 2017)

No complaints on my end, if 10 breaks I can usually fix it and can do so far more success than any previous version of Windows. That's huge in my book on a professional level.

Crazy on the memory leaks, were they all drivers responsible for the leaks?

If so, were they all Intel drivers?

Beyond Chrome and a few select games my memory usage isn't shabby on any personal or managed system. The way 10 handles memory is actually quite good in my experience, and even improves on 8.1's ability of doing a fine job with memory management. But different situations for different systems for sure.

That's a lotta tools to disable all the stuff that comes with 10 lol.


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## Jetster (Jan 9, 2017)

I can't complain. 7 just seams boring now. No memory leaks at all. The only complaint I had was the start menu and icons. But its not a deal breaker. And when you install you can deselect most of the intrusive crap


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## Kursah (Jan 9, 2017)

Yep, and a trick to the start menu is to start typing what you want to use and it'll usually pull it right up. That works for many folks into using 10 faster rather than fumbling around.

Though ClassicStart is still free and can give you a Windows 7-style start menu in about 30 seconds from download to install, at least when installed from Ninite.com.


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## TheGuruStud (Jan 9, 2017)

Kursah said:


> No complaints on my end, if 10 breaks I can usually fix it and can do so far more success than any previous version of Windows. That's huge in my book on a professional level.
> 
> Crazy on the memory leaks, were they all drivers responsible for the leaks?
> 
> ...



At least two of the three remaining are. I suspect they really screwed up WDM.


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## Kursah (Jan 10, 2017)

I think this is an isolated case but maybe there's a WDM issue here...though if that were the case, I feel we'd see far more issues with it and really, I haven't. 

I haven't seen memory leaks that bad from drivers on 10, at least more than one crappy driver on a single system. I say that because I have over 10 physical systems I've deployed at home ranging from second gen to sixth gen Intel Core platforms, an AMD APU platform, and then I have my virtual lab as well (doesn't really count in the driver department since there's less variation here and I use Hyper-V). On a professional level, I've deployed 10 on 100's of systems (maybe even add an extra 0 by now LOL), on Core2 systems, Athlon X2 systems, all the way up to brand new systems. 

Not all were painless, not all were perfect...but there were quite a few that surprised me at how well they accepted 10. I do gotta say some older systems responded better to upgrading from 7 than a fresh install, and vice versa for new systems. Especially now that some new systems and hardware have no official Win 7 support.

Which system are you having these issues on?


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## TheGuruStud (Jan 10, 2017)

Kursah said:


> I think this is an isolated case but maybe there's a WDM issue here...though if that were the case, I feel we'd see far more issues with it and really, I haven't.
> 
> I haven't seen memory leaks that bad from drivers on 10, at least more than one crappy driver on a single system. I say that because I have over 10 physical systems I've deployed at home ranging from second gen to sixth gen Intel Core platforms, an AMD APU platform, and then I have my virtual lab as well (doesn't really count in the driver department since there's less variation here and I use Hyper-V). On a professional level, I've deployed 10 on 100's of systems (maybe even add an extra 0 by now LOL), on Core2 systems, Athlon X2 systems, all the way up to brand new systems.
> 
> ...



Intel RST is very common. Idk about creative crap.


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## Kursah (Jan 10, 2017)

Sure but RST causing memory leak issues on 10, I haven't seen it or at least it's rare enough I don't recall a specific occurrence where it caused any hell and consumed a bunch of available memory. Hence asking for details from you about which system, is it the one in your system specs? Not?

What version of RST are you deploying?
What is this "creative crap" you speak of? Just the standard sound card software suite?
Creative sound cards? 
Creative USB sound card/amp?


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## TheGuruStud (Jan 10, 2017)

Kursah said:


> Sure but RST causing memory leak issues on 10, I haven't seen it or at least it's rare enough I don't recall a specific occurrence where it caused any hell and consumed a bunch of available memory. Hence asking for details from you about which system, is it the one in your system specs? Not?
> 
> What version of RST are you deploying?
> What is this "creative crap" you speak of? Just the standard sound card software suite?
> ...



Asrock Z97M, 980ti, x-fi Ti.

The versions never mattered. It leaked since day one. I tried all the potential fixes. Device manager uninstall took care of it lol.

The only leak I ever had on 8 was killer ethernet crap, which was easily remedied as it wasn't the driver, but the service.

Creative is known for junk drivers, but even modded can't fix this haha. Display and audio WDM keep getting updated. Even nvidia has fallen on a release to this crap.


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## Kursah (Jan 10, 2017)

Ya I dealt with the Killer Ethernet driver mess with Win 8/8.1 as well, thank goodness for the Qualcom driver workaround!

Dang I have a couple systems I built for friends with that board, one is on 10, one is on 8.1. Both are solid. Though not sure I installed RST on either TBH. Not often I use that utility anymore. Not often I use onboard Intel RAID...and my current laptop, an Acer Predator 15, with a 256GB M.2 SSD and a 1TB HDD, the BIOS for the Intel chipset was set default to RAID, and RST does not come pre-installed. So if you're not running an actual RAID, or using a small SSD as a cache then really it isn't like you need RST in the first place.

My boy's PC's (in sig) have H97M's, though iirc I didn't install RST on either of them but will check...haven't had a memory leak issue on them either though. So odds are I didn't.

Been a while since I've dealt with Creative's drivers...but last I recall, while they were a little bulky size-wise on the drive...they weren't too horrid on RAM. I may have to fire up my Auzen X-Fi Forte and see what the deal is. I run an Aune T1 so the Windows audio device drivers do the deed.


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## Frick (Jan 10, 2017)

TheGuruStud said:


> Creative is known for junk drivers, but even modded can't fix this haha. Display and audio WDM keep getting updated. Even nvidia has fallen on a release to this crap.



I have an X-Fi card and nothing weird is going on about it...

I didn't read the articles above, but the sad thing about how will be able to stop driver updating is how it does not apply to Home users (yet, anyway). Which is kind of bollocks to me, because it is the moms and pops on cheap laptops who are fudged by the updates.


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## Vario (Jan 10, 2017)

You can pry Windows 7 Pro from my cold dead hands.


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## Drone (Jan 14, 2017)

W7 users receiving 'please uninstall KB3172605 and/or KB3161608 message'

read


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## R-T-B (Jan 14, 2017)

Vario said:


> You can pry Windows 7 Pro from my cold dead hands.



To be fair, seeing Windows 7 in a crypt with a bunch of dead guys is about how I view it technologically.  XP has good company.


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## Aquinus (Jan 15, 2017)

Yeah, so I was thinking about giving Windows 10 a shot again until my wife handed me her less than a month old laptop where a Windows update completely borked the audio driver. Uh, yeah... !@#$ you Microsoft. I guess Ubuntu stays...


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