# Help needed with 59 fps stutter when playing a vsync locked, 60fps game .



## LifeOnMars (Jan 25, 2011)

In games that I can run easily with vsync locked at 60FPS. For example -

Nail'd
FIFA 11
NFSHP

to name a few, they will sometimes/most of the time, flicker between 59fps/60/61. When it goes to 59FPS it causes stutter which throughout the course of a game, especially in sports or racing games can actually be very annoying. I have tried using D3Doverrider but it displays the same problem when that frame is dropped?

Is this a normal problem or is it my monitor?

Any solution to this as ideally I just want it locked hard to 60FPS?

EDIT - I do not have this issue with Bad Company 2 or Just Cause 2 and also when recording with Fraps I have noticed that it locks at 30fps and doesnt deviate down to 29fps or upto 31.


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## IINexusII (Jan 25, 2011)

whats the refresh rate of the monitor set to in the games?


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## LifeOnMars (Jan 25, 2011)

iinexusii said:


> whats the refresh rate of the monitor set to in the games?



60Hz/60 FPS


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## LifeOnMars (Jan 26, 2011)

Anyone else have any experience of this or ways to sort it?


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## hellrazor (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah, it is kind of odd... I remember Doom 3 used to drop to 59, but it didn't stutter or anything.


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 3, 2011)

Still having this issue and still haven't found an answer. Anyone have a fix for this or an explanation at least?


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## ctrain (Feb 3, 2011)

Not sure on the stuttering, but my guess otherwise is that you see the fps move because it's inaccurate by nature.

The frame time for 60 fps isn't a whole number, depending on how it's rounded the frame counter might be slightly off. The lower the fps, the more accurate it should be which might explain your 30 fps mystery of it not moving there.

1000 / 60 = 16.6667~
1000 / 16.6667 = 59.99988~


I just tried enabling vsync in Quake and it flickers from 59 to 60 rapidly.


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## Mussels (Feb 3, 2011)

software in the background causing the problem is my guess.


i have seen dozens of comments like this usually followed up by "hey guys, it was X" with X varying between each person.


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## streetfighter 2 (Feb 3, 2011)

We are talking about microstutter right?

In my experience it's a very common issue and disabling vsync actually can help quite a bit.  Another thing to try is if you're overclocking the card, set it back to default (or lower the clocks).

I've tried everything under the sun, and a few things above the sun, and I still get microstutter in GTA IV... 


Mussels said:


> i have seen dozens of comments like this usually followed up by "hey guys, it was X" with X varying between each person.


Best. Sentence. Ever.

This is the solution to 90% of the problems I've encountered in life.


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## Mike0409 (Feb 3, 2011)

Are you running anything with an overlay?  Or running the game from within steam where it's not supported, xfire or raptr? Turn off AV


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 3, 2011)

ctrain said:


> Not sure on the stuttering, but my guess otherwise is that you see the fps move because it's inaccurate by nature.
> 
> The frame time for 60 fps isn't a whole number, depending on how it's rounded the frame counter might be slightly off. The lower the fps, the more accurate it should be which might explain your 30 fps mystery of it not moving there.
> 
> ...



But does yours stutter as it flicks between 59 and 60? Mine produces a noticeable step stutter between the frame change.

Mussels - I run a minimal install of windows 7. I hate excess background processes.

SF2 - GTAIV runs as smooth as butter on my rig on high.

Mike - No overlay of any sort, tried with and without FRAPS and still that momentary step stutter.


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## JrRacinFan (Feb 3, 2011)

Which driver revision are you using? Also, what settings in NFS HP? Everything high in-game what settings in nvidia control panel? I am going to attempt to reproduce what you are seeing as I have TONS of background processes and never experienced the issue. Also, shouldn't be hard drive because essentially, we have the same one 

EDIT:

Ok just ran through Roadsters Reborn, no nudges at all in the 60fps lock, nvidia 260.89 driver set. I think if you have antivirus it is playing it's toll.


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 3, 2011)

JrRacinFan said:


> Which driver revision are you using? Also, what settings in NFS HP? Everything high in-game what settings in nvidia control panel? I am going to attempt to reproduce what you are seeing as I have TONS of background processes and never experienced the issue. Also, shouldn't be hard drive because essentially, we have the same one
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Ok just ran through Roadsters Reborn, no nudges at all in the 60fps lock, nvidia 260.89 driver set. I think if you have antivirus it is playing it's toll.



Hi Jr. I have no antivirus installed, my settings in the control panel are generally standard with high quality filtering and 3fps for maximum pre rendered frames. I am using the 266.58 drivers. I'm really starting to think it's a monitor issue.


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## f22a4bandit (Feb 3, 2011)

Fifa 11 is stuttering/stalling during game play, correct?

I have this same issue on my PS3, and have heard other people having this problem as well across multiple platforms, so you're not alone. There really isn't a solution as far as I know until EA gets off their Lazy Boy and addresses this issue. It's extremely annoying, so I know exactly what you're going through.

One suggestion I heard was to increase resolution to 1920x1080, but I don't know if this will help you at all.


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## JrRacinFan (Feb 3, 2011)

LifeOnMars said:


> Hi Jr. I have no antivirus installed, my settings in the control panel are generally standard with high quality filtering and 3fps for maximum pre rendered frames. I am using the 266.58 drivers. I'm really starting to think it's a monitor issue.



Most i can say at this point is to revert back to the 260 driver set and run "Let 3d application decide" in nVidia cp. See if it helps any.

@f22a
That may be the issue as I was playing at 1080p. Will edit with my findings @ 1680x1050

EDIT:
Nope, played the exact same way, just all out smooth.


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## Mike0409 (Feb 3, 2011)

Are you running an HDMI cable or DVI?  If its HDMI is it an older cable at all?


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 3, 2011)

I'm running a DVI cable.

Jr - I have tried practically every driver that has been released since the 460 GTX came out. All have the same issue so I don't think it is driver related.

Bandit - It's not attrocious stutter and is quite random and it's really only like 1frame/1 second lag. I have seen the PS3 stutter and that is shocking.

Out of interest I have to use a switch card on my mobo to run my graphics card at the full 16x2.0 can these ever cause issues? I have checked GPUz and it is running at full speed.... just speculating 

EDIT - This 59fps stutter also affects a fully patched "The Saboteur". It runs at a constant 60fps which is smooth as and then hiccups/hitches when it goes to 59fps but it does that quite frequently exactly like FIFA. Is it an EA issue? I doubt it but it's annoying as hell and ruins a perfectly playable game otherwise.


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## Mike0409 (Feb 3, 2011)

LifeOnMars said:


> I'm running a DVI cable.
> 
> Jr - I have tried practically every driver that has been released since the 460 GTX came out. All have the same issue so I don't think it is driver related.
> 
> ...



A switch card, kind of like the old SLI/Non-SLI cards they use to use?

Do you have Triple Buffering enabled? This should add an extra frame, but it will cause stuttering occasionally, then smooth out.  Try turning that off.


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## f22a4bandit (Feb 3, 2011)

LifeOnMars said:


> I'm running a DVI cable.
> 
> Jr - I have tried practically every driver that has been released since the 460 GTX came out. All have the same issue so I don't think it is driver related.
> 
> ...



I think it is more of an EA issue than an actual hardware issue at this point. The stuttering seems common in the sports games for whatever reason. Madden 11, I'm told, also experiences this same issue during game play.

Yeah, the PS3 stuttering is really bad, but like you said, it only happens randomly. Of course, I have to wonder if it's actually the hard drive in my PS3 slim that's causing this issue, as it seems only slim users experience this phenomenon.

Your thread reminded me of the problem I'm having with Fifa 11. Almost every other title I own doesn't experience this issue.


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## JrRacinFan (Feb 3, 2011)

LifeOnMars said:


> Out of interest I have to use a switch card on my mobo to run my graphics card at the full 16x2.0 can these ever cause issues? I have checked GPUz and it is running at full speed.... just speculating



Take it out and run the card at 8x 2.0. Shouldn't give a performance hit.


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## EastCoasthandle (Feb 3, 2011)

With vsync on if the games stutters at 59 FPS that could be a sign that the actual frame rates of the game is much lower with vsync off.  It appears to me that your setup isn't capable of playing those games with vsync on.  As you need your minimum frame rates to be at least 60 FPS.  Any dips with min/average would cause stuttering in such cases.

If you believe it should based on IQ/resolution, etc.  Then you are going to need to look at:
-background processes
-chipset settings
-CPU overclock settings
-CPU/GPU/Chipset temps
-Driver settings
-etc


Sidenote:
Your stats say you are using 1T timing?  Why not change that to 2T and see if that helps.


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 3, 2011)

EastCoasthandle said:


> With vsync on if the games stutters at 59 FPS that could be a sign that the actual frame rates of the game is much lower with vsync off.  It appears to me that your setup isn't capable of playing those games with vsync on.  As you need your minimum frame rates to be at least 60 FPS.  Any dips with min/average would cause stuttering in such cases.
> 
> If you believe it should based on IQ/resolution, etc.  Then you are going to need to look at:
> -background processes
> ...



You see, with FIFA 11 especially, I have looked at the frames I'm getting with vysnc off and it never dips below 150fps....seriously. The tearing is awful though and my monitor does not handle it well. I did actually try reverting back to 2T timings but no joy unfortunately.

EDIT -

I'm gonna try and find a way of capturing this so I can show you guys how it occurs.


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## Mike0409 (Feb 3, 2011)

LifeOnMars said:


> You see, with FIFA 11 especially, I have looked at the frames I'm getting with vysnc off and it never dips below 150fps....seriously. The tearing is awful though and my monitor does not handle it well. I did actually try reverting back to 2T timings but no joy unfortunately.
> 
> EDIT -
> 
> I'm gonna try and find a way of capturing this so I can show you guys how it occurs.



Do this, beef your Refresh rate up to 70hz, and turn Vsync off. See if tearing still occurs.


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 3, 2011)

Mike0409 said:


> Do this, beef your Refresh rate up to 70hz, and turn Vsync off. See if tearing still occurs.



 How do I beef my refresh rate up to 70hz? Its natively 1680x1050 60hz unless you mean that I should try dropping my res?


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## Zenith (Feb 3, 2011)

I can say for NFS:HP I have the exactly same issue. Playing with 60FPS almost whole game thru, but getting 59FPS dips and kinda stalls fluidity of game. I was wondering if better GFX card would solve this problem. I also tried D3DOverrider and triple buffer and got somehow same result.

I remember going from 8800GTS to HD5850 card and while playing Burnout Paradise Ultimate I got similar FPS dips as now in NFS:HP. 8800GTS was fluid eg. constant 60FPS in Burnout. Those games are both made by Criterion.


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## Mike0409 (Feb 3, 2011)

LifeOnMars said:


> How do I beef my refresh rate up to 70hz? Its natively 1680x1050 60hz unless you mean that I should try dropping my res?



Under display properties you should have a Settings tab, there should be a Monitor tab in there and Refresh rate will be under that.  (Id attach some screenies but I'm at work.)


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## JrRacinFan (Feb 3, 2011)

Mike0409 said:


> Under display properties you should have a Settings tab, there should be a Monitor tab in there and Refresh rate will be under that.  (Id attach some screenies but I'm at work.)



Have to make sure the monitor properly supports that refresh rate or could do damage the panel.


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## Mike0409 (Feb 3, 2011)

JrRacinFan said:


> Have to make sure the monitor properly supports that refresh rate or could do damage the panel.



Should be OK. As long as he doesn't uncheck the "Hide Modes that this monitor cant display"


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 3, 2011)

Zenith said:


> I can say for NFS:HP I have the exactly same issue. Playing with 60FPS almost whole game thru, but getting 59FPS dips and kinda stalls fluidity of game. I was wondering if better GFX card would solve this problem. I also tried D3DOverrider and triple buffer and got somehow same result.
> 
> I remember going from 8800GTS to HD5850 card and while playing Burnout Paradise Ultimate I got similar FPS dips as now in NFS:HP. 8800GTS was fluid eg. constant 60FPS in Burnout. Those games are both made by Criterion.



Burnout Paradise stays at 60fps solid for me  

Mike - I can't go above 60hz on my monitor, it goes all jumpy stuttery if I try unless its at a lower res which just looks blurry as hell.


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## JrRacinFan (Feb 3, 2011)

Next chance you get LoM, we're going to have to do a TeamViewer session. I'll check over things see if there's anything that I see could be a potential cause.


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 3, 2011)

JrRacinFan said:


> Next chance you get LoM, we're going to have to do a TeamViewer session. I'll check over things see if there's anything that I see could be a potential cause.



What's TeamViewer? That sounds interesting 

EDIT - Oh remote access huh (quickly hides his prOn)


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 4, 2011)

OK, A few things from different games I have noticed which may help you in diagnosing what is wrong -

*World Of Warcraft *-

Mouse & Keyboard

 I have the map key customised to one of my side mouse buttons, when I  press it the game will stutter/skip for a second. If I keep opening the map/closing the map continuous stutter. Flying on a mount/walking into new areas. Stutter - HARD DRIVE ACCESS??

*Call Of Duty Modern Warfare (Offline) and Modern Warfare 2 (Offline)* -

Mouse & Keyboard

Vsync Off - No stutter but momentary load stutter/frameskip when a scene is about to happen.
Vsync on - Stutter pretty much throughout but almost like frame skipping, especially if I pan across NPC's

*James Bond Bloodstone* - 

Vsync locked 59fps stutter every now and again, very similar to NFSHP and FIFA 11. Vysnc off shows ridiculous framerates which never go near 60fps let alone 59. I use the Xbox 360 controller for this game and notice the effect more when moving the camera vertically either up or down.

*Naild* - 

Vsync locked 59fps/60fps stutter. Only occasional and random but very off putting. I use the Xbox 360 controller for this one too.

*Dead Space* -

Xbox 360 controller

Vsync locked 59fps/60fps stutter. Exactly like Nail'd, random but occasional and very off putting.

*Divinity 2* - 

Mouse & Keyboard

I have to lock this at 40fps to control horrendous stutter. At all other framerates it's a positively epileptic experience.

-----------------------------------------------------------


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 6, 2011)

Here's a gif to show the stutter I'm experiencing -







[/IMG]


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## Mussels (Feb 6, 2011)

i dont think the gif worked


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 6, 2011)

OK should be sorted now  Can you see it's almost like frameskip?


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## Mussels (Feb 6, 2011)

yes i can see it now. doesnt help me solve it, however.


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## cdawall (Feb 6, 2011)

can you try with vsync turned off and see if the issue goes away?


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## erocker (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm wondering if it system related and not GPU related. Almost sounds like it could be a slight memory issue to me. Try upping the voltage on your RAM and the CPU/NB a couple bumps and see if the issue changes at all.

*In your specs you list your 1.65v RAM at 1.6v. That will be a problem on an AMD rig as they usually require more voltage than stock.


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 6, 2011)

cdawall said:


> can you try with vsync turned off and see if the issue goes away?



With vysnc off I have the same stutter but with tearing 

Erocker - I did have my memory at 1.65v for a long time and had the same issues, shouldn't really have to go up to 1.7 should I?

I seem to be seeing alot of 460 related stutter threads all over the place, some people have no issues, some have loads. I'm considering asking Gigabyte to replace with an ATI equivalent card, what would that be exactly?


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## erocker (Feb 6, 2011)

LifeOnMars said:


> With vysnc off I have the same stutter but with tearing
> 
> Erocker - I did have my memory at 1.65v for a long time and had the same issues, shouldn't really have to go up to 1.7 should I?
> 
> I seem to be seeing alot of 460 related stutter threads all over the place, some people have no issues, some have loads. I'm considering asking Gigabyte to replace with an ATI equivalent card, what would that be exactly?



You may need 1.7v. It's very common that an AMD system needs this. Same with the CPU/NB (Internal Memory Controller) voltage. You're right though, it could very well just be the card. My 460 stuttered on me but I thought it was due to 768mb of memory on it at 1920x1200. Maybe I was wrong? I would at least try bumping up the voltage on those two things before getting a different card. I suppose a 6870 is the ATi equivalent of your 460.


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 6, 2011)

erocker said:


> You may need 1.7v. It's very common that an AMD system needs this. Same with the CPU/NB (Internal Memory Controller) voltage. You're right though, it could very well just be the card. My 460 stuttered on me but I thought it was due to 768mb of memory on it at 1920x1200. Maybe I was wrong? I would at least try bumping up the voltage on those two things before getting a different card. I suppose a 6870 is the ATi equivalent of your 460.



Interesting, thanks. I'm going to run @ 1.7 for the memory. My CPU/NB is only at 2600 @1.35v, that should be enough shouldn't it?

I'm giving the card until Friday, if my problems are not resolved by then I have a Gigabyte returns depot near me so I will be swapping for an alternative card.


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 7, 2011)

Here's an update.

I've been running my ram now at 6-7-6 1T 1333Mhz @1.7v and have seen improvement!!

Call Of Duty Modern Warfare no longer seems to have those stuttery pauses, only very brief autosave pauses (Is That Normal?)

My question is, are there any ways with altering the memory timings/hard drives to improve those saving pauses?

I have also heard it mentioned that AMD systems benefit more from running lower latencies....why is this?

And finally, I have seen much talk over at Guru 3D about disabling HPET to reduce/get rid of stutter on the 4XX series Nvidia cards for some people. I don't have this option in my bios and I'm wondering if there is a way I can try this out as I'm still getting the same stuttery gameplay in most of my other games?


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## erocker (Feb 7, 2011)

LifeOnMars said:


> Here's an update.
> 
> I've been running my ram now at 6-7-6 1T 1333Mhz @1.7v and have seen improvement!!
> 
> ...



Bump up your CPU voltage and CPU/NB voltage and try again.


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 7, 2011)

erocker said:


> Bump up your CPU voltage and CPU/NB voltage and try again.



OK I'm going for 1.4v on the CPU/NB and 1.4v load on the CPU, probably too extreme considering I have run stability tests but I'm willing to try to save the hassle of returning/blaming the graphics card.

Any thoughts on my other questions e?


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## erocker (Feb 7, 2011)

The memory controller in AMD's chips are the reason. However they are designed, they work better with lower latency over higher frequencies. I think a good thing for you to try is reseting your CMOS and try running everything stock. Setup your RAM how the manufacturer wants it setup. If these games have no stutter after this, it's definitely an instability on your OC somewhere.


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 7, 2011)

Well it seems we have a winner. The RAM!!

I ran my CPU@ 3.2Ghz stock with turbo disabled but with 1.35v
CPU/NB@1.3v 2000/2000
and set the RAM to 7/8/7 2T 1600MHz 1.7v

Ran through the "Crew Expendable" level on COD MW.

Result - All sorts of weird stuttering, pauses and massive frame drops.

Restarted and set the RAM to auto, keeping everything else the same. Checked via CPUz and it was running at 9/9/9 24/40 1T. Then ran through the same level again.

Result - Slight autosave pause but no stuttering and no massive frame drops.

I bought the RAM as it had good latencies for its 1600MHz speed, was on the QVL and had reviews that stated it was overclockable and kept cool. Looks like I may have got duds. 

Anyways, gonna try a few more games and see how it goes. What would you do? Return it? If so any recommended native AMD ram suggestions are very much welcomed 



*EDIT* - Just tried Dead Space, now getting frame skip (as in the gif I posted) and stutter even at 9/9/9 24/40 1T


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## LifeOnMars (Feb 8, 2011)

So today I decided to take it apart, have a little clean of everything and reassemble, then work on my settings.

I now have the CPU 4Ghz @ 1.43v, NB 2.6 @ 1.35v(CPU/NB) and running the memory at 1414Mhz 6/7/6 1T and very pleased to say everything is running very smoothly so somewhere along the line, something was either not connected properly/too dusty or something was set incorrectly in the bios that I had missed.

Happy camper now.

Thank you to everyone who contributed, getting back to what I love best now - playing games and browsing TPU


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## erocker (Feb 8, 2011)

Glad it's all sorted!


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