# Intel Launches 11th Gen Core "Rocket Lake": Unmatched Overclocking and Gaming Performance



## btarunr (Mar 16, 2021)

The 11th Gen Intel Core S-series desktop processors (code-named "Rocket Lake-S") launched worldwide today, led by the flagship Intel Core i9-11900K. Reaching speeds of up to 5.30 GHz with Intel Thermal Velocity Boost, the Intel Core i9-11900K delivers even more performance to gamers and PC enthusiasts.

Engineered on the new Cypress Cove architecture, 11th Gen Intel Core S-series desktop processors are designed to transform hardware and software efficiency and increase raw gaming performance​. The new architecture brings up to 19% gen-over-gen instructions per cycle (IPC) improvement for the highest frequency cores and adds Intel UHD graphics featuring the Intel Xe graphics architecture for rich media and intelligent graphics capabilities. That matters because games and most applications continue to depend on high-frequency cores to drive high frame rates and low latency.



 

 

 

 




With its new 11th Gen desktop processors, Intel continues to push desktop gaming performance to the limits and deliver the most amazing immersive experiences for players everywhere.

At the top of the stack is the 11th Gen Intel Core i9-11900K, featuring unmatched performance with up to 5.3 gigahertz, eight cores, 16 threads and 16 megabytes of Intel Smart Cache. The unlocked 11th Gen Intel Core desktop processor supports fast memory speeds with DDR4-3200 to help enable smooth gameplay and seamless multitasking on this platform.

Improvements in this generation include: 
Up to 19% gen-over-gen IPC performance improvement.
Up to 50% better integrated graphics performance with Intel UHD graphics featuring Intel Xe graphics architecture.
Intel Deep Learning Boost and Vector Neural Network Instructions support to accelerate artificial intelligence (AI) inference—vastly improving performance for deep learning workloads.
Enhanced overclocking tools and features for flexible overclocking and tuning performance and experience.
Through close collaboration with more than 200 of the top game developers, Intel brings a host of game, engine, middleware and rendering optimizations to applications so they can take advantage of 11th Gen Intel Core S-series processors to deliver exciting gaming experiences.

Superior Tuning and Stability: 11th Gen Intel Core desktop processors introduce new overclocking tools and features for more flexible tuning to achieve unmatched speeds and superior game performance. This generation includes real-time memory overclocking which enables changes to DDR4 frequency in real time, extending memory overclocking support for H570 and B560 chipsets allowing users to experience overclocking, Advanced Vector Extensions (AVX) 2 and AVX-512 voltage guard band override, and an all new integrated memory controller with wider timings and Gear 2 support (in addition to Gear 1 support).

Media and Streaming Features for Days: The new 11th Gen Intel Core S-series delivers rich media experiences, from AAA gaming to high-definition streaming with additional features including DDR4-3200 MHz support, 20 PCIe 4.0 lanes, Intel Quick Sync Video, enhanced media (10-bit AV1/12bit high-efficiency video coding decode and end-to-end compression), enhanced display (Integrated HDMI 2.0, HBR3), and discrete Thunderbolt 4 and Intel Wi-Fi 6E support.

For more information on Intel 11th Gen Intel Core S-series desktop processors, visit the 11th Gen Intel Core Desktop Processors Product Brief below.



 

 

 

 

 

 



*11th Gen Core Processor Models and Pricing (in 1,000-unit tray quantities):*


 

 



*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## ZoneDymo (Mar 16, 2021)

Lol and maybe it's just me but these things are always so generic and boring to read, like a bot wrote it all...

Edit 540 bucks for a 11900k? They have lost their marbles


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## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 16, 2021)

That much for an 8 core?


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 16, 2021)

Alexa said:


> That much for an 8 core?


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## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 16, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> View attachment 192666


Did I say AMD's pricing was any better lol

Hell I got my 3900X at $410


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 16, 2021)

Alexa said:


> Did I say AMD's pricing was any better lol
> 
> Hell I got my 3900X at $410


Just making sure you are consistent...

Lately on these forums (Not you, forum in general) that hasn't been the case.


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## ZoneDymo (Mar 16, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> View attachment 192666


540 vs 450 is quite a difference


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## mouacyk (Mar 16, 2021)

Lamer launch is lame


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## Deleted member 197223 (Mar 16, 2021)

Intel is good value for money. You can divide by 10 to get prices in euros.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 16, 2021)

ZoneDymo said:


> 540 vs 450 is quite a difference


You can also get a 11700k for $400...Another 8/16 core unlocked chip...Won't miss anything, but a couple more GHz boost...


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## Bruno Vieira (Mar 16, 2021)

They are really charging 'good 12 core' pricing for 'notsogreat 8 core' cpus. Go figure


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## Fatalfury (Mar 16, 2021)

Need to Wait for Power Consumption Benchmarks rather than gaming benchmarks this time before making a decision to buy 1.


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## mechtech (Mar 16, 2021)

Gaming performance..........??  On integrated graphics???

Can't mean with discrete cards, cause there isn't any


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## Fleurious (Mar 16, 2021)

Waiting for more reviews on these because Anandtech’s early review didn’t give me a good impression.  There are 5800x in stock locally that i’ll get if the 11900k is a dud (comparatively speaking).


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## RedelZaVedno (Mar 16, 2021)

The only slightly interesting CPUs are 11400F ($157) and 11700F ($298) when coupled with budget friendly B560 MBs (so one can use OC DDR4) if up to 19% IPC gain translates into more fps in gaming.  If not, I 10400F ($129) / 10700F ($254) offer best value atm or wait until Alder Lake release or Ryzen3 getting a price cut (not very likely anytime soon).


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## Durvelle27 (Mar 16, 2021)

The i9 of this Gen seems so pointless. It really makes the i7 look like an even better deal


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## MxPhenom 216 (Mar 16, 2021)

Durvelle27 said:


> The i9 of this Gen seems so pointless. It really makes the i7 look like an even better deal



Right, I see no reason for anyone to get a i9. Other than maybe e-peen, or more money than brains...


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## Turmania (Mar 16, 2021)

Do non-k versions support ddr4-3200? If so that is good.


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## ZoneDymo (Mar 16, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> You can also get a 11700k for $400...Another 8/16 core unlocked chip...Won't miss anything, but a couple more GHz boost...



yeah and? that does not mean the 11900k doesn't exists for a rediculous price.... the original comment was "that much for an 8 core" which yeah means that 8 core 11900k for 540 dollars.



Fatalfury said:


> Need to Wait for Power Consumption Benchmarks rather than gaming benchmarks this time before making a decision to buy 1.



There is a review out already from Anandtech...spoiler: it does not look good


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## B-Real (Mar 16, 2021)

"Unmatched Overclocking and Gaming Performance"

The key term is "Press Release".



MxPhenom 216 said:


> View attachment 192666


He said 540. You linked a 450. That's -90 if I count well.


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## Readlight (Mar 16, 2021)

i5-5500 looks ok.


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## Tom Sunday (Mar 16, 2021)

ZoneDymo said:


> 540 bucks for a 11900k? They have lost their marbles


Well...with the "Alder Lake" CPU virtually on our doorstep I hate to guess what the prices will then be for us to shell-out? Then in tune the all new mandated LGA 1700 mobos announcing themselves as well. The Z590 Asus Hero VIII now runs at $500 and this is not even their top-end board. So essentially all mobo manufacturers get to "double-dip" into profits this year as well. So everything we see right now runs at $500 plus.

I personally and with all the new tech that comes along with the Alder Lake hardware packages later this year, see a across the board further 25% price increase. Should and if GPU's become available at MSRP for this years Holiday Season, the officially stated to date MSRP's will most likely increase as well at a cool 25% or more and to initially feed a buying frenzy. After all its Christmas and people think differently. Once I see all of this coming down on me I will then surely get my marble attack.


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## Max(IT) (Mar 16, 2021)

What about the NDA for reviews ?



Tom Sunday said:


> Well...with the "Alder Lake" CPU virtually on our doorstep I hate to guess what the prices will then be for us to shell-out? Then the all new mandated LGA 1700 mobos announcing themselves as well. The Z590 Asus Hero VIII now runs at $500. So essentially all mobo manufacturers get to "double-dip" into profits this year as well. So everything we see right now runs at $500 plus. I personally and with all the new tech that comes along with the Alder Lake hardware packages, see a clean 25% price increase. Once I see it of course I will then get my marble attack.


I don’t believe in Alder Lake this year...



Bork Bork said:


> Intel is good value for money. You can divide by 10 to get prices in euros.


In many other countries in Europe you can find a 5800X for less than 450€...

After a quick look at 11700K power consumption let me know about the “good deal”.
Intel good deal is on Comet lake: 10400 and 10700 are a good purchase today.


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## Deleted member 197223 (Mar 16, 2021)

DDR5/PCIe 5.0 hardware will be much much more expensive compared to current prices. I think I'm just gonna upgrade with what we have from both teams now and hope for the best as we are already starting to have diminishing returns in some aspects (i.e NVMe drives running hot) and I doubt we'll be seeing 2400+ TBW on PCIe 4.0/5.0 drives anytime soon.



Max(IT) said:


> After a quick look at 11700K power consumption let me know about the “good deal”.
> Intel good deal is on Comet lake: 10400 and 10700 are a good purchase today.


All good as long as you don't plan on running AVX512 tasks 24/7 which many seem to plan on doing judging by comments across the internet.



Max(IT) said:


> In many other countries in Europe you can find a 5800X for less than 450€...


If I were to buy a 5800X outside Sweden and it happens to be faulty/DoA then I'm screwed.


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## Tomorrow (Mar 16, 2021)

Alexa said:


> Did I say AMD's pricing was any better lol
> 
> Hell I got my 3900X at $410


And i got 3800X for 325€ shortly after it came out. I agree that 450 for 8c/16t even if it's the fastest is too much. Regardless if it's AMD or Intel.


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## Max(IT) (Mar 16, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> View attachment 192666


Two wrongs don’t make one right...



Bork Bork said:


> All good as long as you don't plan on running AVX512 tasks 24/7 which many seem to plan on doing judging by comments across the internet.


You missed the part where 11700K reached 224 W without AVX512...


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## Why_Me (Mar 16, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> The only slightly interesting CPUs are 11400F ($157) and 11700F ($298) when coupled with budget friendly B560 MBs (so one can use OC DDR4) if up to 19% IPC gain translates into more fps in gaming.  If not, I 10400F ($129) / 10700F ($254) offer best value atm or wait until Alder Lake release or Ryzen3 getting a price cut (not very likely anytime soon).


This ^^  .. that's the post of the day _(if you're into gaming)_.


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## Deleted member 197223 (Mar 16, 2021)

Max(IT) said:


> Two wrongs don’t make one right...
> 
> 
> You missed the part where 11700K reached 224 W without AVX512...


Considering most tech journos refuse sharing voltages, I find it very hard to go with said benchmarks they provide. Especially if it's a product not yet available to the public. Unless of course you happen to be one of those who consider 5Ghz at 1.6V a good thing? Because I've met a lot of those.


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## Dristun (Mar 16, 2021)

11600KF seems like a decent deal if one can get it at the suggested price. Everything else... meh. Can't isolate all this from the fact that z590 boards are stupid expensive though.


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## phanbuey (Mar 16, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> This ^^  .. that's the post of the day _(if you're into gaming)_.



Even if not gaming... 6C/12T gaming processors do 99% of office and software dev tasks amazingly fast....

Also 10 cores are going for less than $400 in many cases so... not sure I will be buying this at launch.


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## GoldenX (Mar 16, 2021)

5 years waiting for something new after Skylake, and it's the biggest MEH ever.
I hope the GPU reviews of this gen make up for it. Something to force AMD to stop shipping useless Vegas.


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## Why_Me (Mar 16, 2021)

Pair up an i5 11400F or a i7 11700F with a B560 board and cheap set of 3200MHz CL16 RAM and you're off to the races.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119384?Item=N82E16813119384 
ASUS PRIME B560-PLUS $119.99 

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157976 
ASRock B560 Steel Legend $129.99


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## Tom Sunday (Mar 16, 2021)

Max(IT) said:


> I don’t believe in Alder Lake this year...





Max(IT) said:


> Lets be sure to watch Intel's first quarterly earnings call on April 22, 2021 promptly after close of market. Intel plans to discuss and report its ongoing 2021 strategic plans, first quarter earnings, financial forecasts and particulary its progress on Alder Lake to Wall Street and Intel's important attending institutional investors. I am quite sure that the Intel boys will clearly report the facts as they are for all to see and just perhaps based on the earnings call for many in buying more Intel stock. By then their short-lived Z590 chips have also been on the market and readily for sale and available. Made in factories owned and controlled by Intel, unlike AMD who is now requiring to sub-contract a greater share of their chip production. Curious how that will be playing itself out in the discussions as Wall Street loves guaranteed fabrication, sales and product control.


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## billEST (Mar 16, 2021)

RedelZaVedno said:


> The only slightly interesting CPUs are 11400F ($157) and 11700F ($298) when coupled with budget friendly B560 MBs (so one can use OC DDR4) if up to 19% IPC gain translates into more fps in gaming.  If not, I 10400F ($129) / 10700F ($254) offer best value atm or wait until Alder Lake release or Ryzen3 getting a price cut (not very likely anytime soon).


no 11500 : 750 GPU


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## Max(IT) (Mar 16, 2021)

Bork Bork said:


> Considering most tech journos refuse sharing voltages, I find it very hard to go with said benchmarks they provide. Especially if it's a product not yet available to the public. Unless of course you happen to be one of those who consider 5Ghz at 1.6V a good thing? Because I've met a lot of those.


It was Anandtech, quite a reliable source of informations.
And considering the already quite ridiculous 10700K power consumption, I find those data coherent enough.

Intel CPU are a good choice NOW, if you consider Comet Lake, because even if they are not very "energy effective" they have good performance (especially in gaming) and a very good price.
Now Intel is launching a product that is even less effective and at a price matching the already too high AMD price.
Good luck.


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## Metroid (Mar 16, 2021)

2021, 14nm+++++++++++++++++++++, base clock 2.5ghz tdp 60w --> real tdp 150w , boost clock 5.2ghz 120w, real tdp 500 watts.


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## billEST (Mar 16, 2021)

Tom Sunday said:


> Well...with the "Alder Lake" CPU virtually on our doorstep I hate to guess what the prices will then be for us to shell-out? Then in tune the all new mandated LGA 1700 mobos announcing themselves as well. The Z590 Asus Hero VIII now runs at $500 and this is not even their top-end board. So essentially all mobo manufacturers get to "double-dip" into profits this year as well. So everything we see right now runs at $500 plus.
> 
> I personally and with all the new tech that comes along with the Alder Lake hardware packages later this year, see a across the board further 25% price increase. Should and if GPU's become available at MSRP for this years Holiday Season, the officially stated to date MSRP's will most likely increase as well at a cool 25% or more and to initially feed a buying frenzy. After all its Christmas and people think differently. Once I see all of this coming down on me I will then surely get my marble attack.


 you have 2 thunderbolt port .. 100 buck

400 expensive but a very hight motherboard


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## Why_Me (Mar 16, 2021)

billEST said:


> no 11500 : 750 GPU


https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-11500-core-i5-11th-gen/p/N82E16819118240 
Intel Core i5-11500 Rocket Lake $218.99


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## billEST (Mar 16, 2021)

Metroid said:


> 2021, 14nm+++++++++++++++++++++, base clock 2.5ghz tdp 60w --> real tdp 150w , boost clock 5.2ghz 120w, real tdp 500 watts.


and its a problem ?

for me intel its 10 to 20 degres less  in itx box its not a little thing ....


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## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 16, 2021)

Metroid said:


> 2021, 14nm+++++++++++++++++++++, base clock 2.5ghz tdp 60w --> real tdp 150w , boost clock 5.2ghz 120w, real tdp 500 watts.


Gotta give props to Intel's engineers for managing to keep 14nm relevant, and squeeze 5.2 GHz out of it.

If only they had better management.


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## agentnathan009 (Mar 16, 2021)

I think the title should end with "unmatched heat and performance that finally catches up to our main competitor who has innovated and past us by at plaid speed." You want to play games and cook dinner?! Look no further than our hot, hot, hot CPUs that can do it all, dinner and gaming at the same time!


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## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 16, 2021)

agentnathan009 said:


> I think the title should end with "unmatched heat and performance that finally catches up to our main competitor who has innovated and past us by at plaid speed."


AMD needs to innovate once again in the price department...


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## agentnathan009 (Mar 16, 2021)

Alexa said:


> AMD needs to innovate once again in the price department...


Intel has charged a premium for premium performance for a number of years, it's AMD's turn to make some extra money like Intel did with a superior product.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 16, 2021)

agentnathan009 said:


> Intel has charged a premium for premium performance for a number of years, it's AMD's turn to make some extra money like Intel did with a superior product.


They better put that quick R&D cash grab to good use for when Alder Lake finally comes around. I like my CPUs cheap.

Not about to pay $300 for a 6 core, or $450 for an 8 core, in 2021. I got my 12 core at $410.


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## Deleted member 197223 (Mar 16, 2021)

Max(IT) said:


> It was Anandtech, quite a reliable source of informations.
> And considering the already quite ridiculous 10700K power consumption, I find those data coherent enough.
> 
> Intel CPU are a good choice NOW, if you consider Comet Lake, because even if they are not very "energy effective" they have good performance (especially in gaming) and a very good price.
> ...


I might as well be sitting on my Coffee Lake rig til DDR5 hits mainstream then by that logic. I have money to spend and I will spend. And not cry like every fool who can't get ahold of a GPU right now.  My rigs will render frames either way, so now is a good time as any before costs go up again. Not everyone are just buying PC hardware mind you.


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## agentnathan009 (Mar 16, 2021)

Alexa said:


> They better put that quick R&D cash grab to good use for when Alder Lake finally comes around. I like my CPUs cheap.
> 
> Not about to pay $300 for a 6 core, or $450 for an 8 core, in 2021. I got my 12 core at $410.


They are executing on their roadmaps for Enterprise, desktop, and mobile parts. They are firing on all cylinders, for how long is anyone's guess. If you want cheaper and still capable CPUs you can buy last gen parts. I have a 2600x that is light years better than the Athena core Athlon 435 triple core that was my last rig. I have no doubt that they will allocate the extra money to put towards good use to keep churning out newer and better products. Can you be happy for once for AMD that is like a Phoenix rising from the ashes of a debt ridden and nearly dead state?


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## Why_Me (Mar 16, 2021)

agentnathan009 said:


> They are executing on their roadmaps for Enterprise, desktop, and mobile parts. They are firing on all cylinders, for how long is anyone's guess. If you want cheaper and still capable CPUs you can buy last gen parts. I have a 2600x that is light years better than the Athena core Athlon 435 triple core that was my last rig. I have no doubt that they will allocate the extra money to put towards good use to keep churning out newer and better products. Can you be happy for once for AMD that is like a Phoenix rising from the ashes of a debt ridden and nearly dead state?


AMD cpu's are expensive. Poor people such as myself who don't use cpu intensive programs want more for their money.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 16, 2021)

agentnathan009 said:


> They are executing on their roadmaps for Enterprise, desktop, and mobile parts. They are firing on all cylinders, for how long is anyone's guess. If you want cheaper and still capable CPUs you can buy last gen parts. I have a 2600x that is light years better than the Athena core Athlon 435 triple core that was my last rig. I have no doubt that they will allocate the extra money to put towards good use to keep churning out newer and better products. Can you be happy for once for AMD that is like a Phoenix rising from the ashes of a debt ridden and nearly dead state?


Who said I wasn't happy for AMD? If it weren't for them I wouldn't have a CPU with more than 4 cores right now. There would be no i5s with 6 cores right now. Considering they're fighting both Intel and NVIDIA and managing some of the greatest performance leaps in both departments is commendable enough.

I can't help but root for Intel to have something good again at the moment. I want competition not monopolies.

I'm not on team red, I'm not on team blue -- I'm on team price to performance. When I got my chip, AMD was the king in that regard.


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## agentnathan009 (Mar 16, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> AMD cpu's are expensive. Poor people such as myself who don't use cpu intensive programs want more for their money.


Who doesn't want more for their money? Innovating and designing CPUs isn't the easiest task in the world and as transistors get smaller and smaller the cost goes up for the manufacturing equipment to make those itty bitty transistors. Cost will naturally increase as well to cover the R&D and manufacturing costs until someone discovers a break through that changes how we do CPUs and lowers the costs to develop ever more powerful processing units. Also, with the imminent release of of Rocket Lake chips, there could be enough competitiveness that AMD may lower their prices to keep selling their chips as fast as they can make them.









						As Chip Design Costs Skyrocket, 3nm Process Node Is in Jeopardy - ExtremeTech
					

The cost of building new chips keeps rising every node -- so much so that by 3nm, there might be precious few companies that can afford new chips at all.




					www.extremetech.com
				






Alexa said:


> Who said I wasn't happy for AMD? If it weren't for them I wouldn't have a CPU with more than 4 cores right now. There would be no i5s with 6 cores right now. Considering they're fighting both Intel and NVIDIA and managing some of the greatest performance leaps in both departments is commendable enough.
> 
> I can't help but root for Intel to have something good again at the moment. I want competition not monopolies.
> 
> I'm not on team red, I'm not on team blue -- I'm on team price to performance. When I got my chip, AMD was the king in that regard.


If you don't like monopolies then you need to suck it up and buy AMD at the prices they are asking as they are far behind overtaking the Intelopoly. To buy Intel at the moment is supporting a monopoly, though a weakening one.


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## Why_Me (Mar 16, 2021)

agentnathan009 said:


> Who doesn't want more for their money? Innovating and designing CPUs isn't the easiest task in the world and as transistors get smaller and smaller the cost goes up for the manufacturing equipment to make those itty bitty transistors. Cost will naturally increase as well to cover the R&D and manufacturing costs until someone discovers a break through that changes how we do CPUs and lowers the costs to develop ever more powerful processing units. Also, with the imminent release of of Rocket Lake chips, there could be enough competitiveness that AMD may lower their prices to keep selling their chips as fast as they can make them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unlike AMD, Intel obviously cares about the poor people who want a decent gaming cpu at an affordable price.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 16, 2021)

agentnathan009 said:


> buy AMD at the prices they are asking


Yeah no thanks


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## agentnathan009 (Mar 16, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Unlike AMD, Intel obviously cares about the poor people who want a decent gaming cpu at an affordable price.


That wasn't the case for many years, not until Zen changed the landscape. I personally don't think that AMD is overcharging for the performance. They have a solid, high performance product, they deserve to charge more for that product. Now, market conditions may dictate differently at times, but that is why I posted the link to Extremetech article, you are likely facing CPUs that WILL cost more in the future and this is a precursor of things to come as it costs more to make those smaller transistor CPUs. Get used to it and if you can't afford the latest and greatest, buy last gen gear. I cannot afford the latest and greatest, I make due with what I can afford.



Alexa said:


> Yeah no thanks


So you were lying about not supporting monopolies? Your lack of integrity is appalling.


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## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 16, 2021)

agentnathan009 said:


> So you were lying about not supporting monopolies? Your lack of integrity is appalling.


You really think AMD is gonna be any better once they get comfy seeing people accept their ridiculous prices? Stop defending corporations, it makes you look pathetic.


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## Why_Me (Mar 16, 2021)

agentnathan009 said:


> That wasn't the case for many years, not until Zen changed the landscape. I personally don't think that AMD is overcharging for the performance. They have a solid, high performance product, they deserve to charge more for that product. Now, market conditions may dictate differently at times, but that is why I posted the link to Extremetech article, you are likely facing CPUs that WILL cost more in the future and this is a precursor of things to come as it costs more to make those smaller transistor CPUs. Get used to it and if you can't afford the latest and greatest, buy last gen gear. I cannot afford the latest and greatest, I make due with what I can afford.


If only AMD would do something like this instead of catering to the rich.

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-10400f-core-i5-10th-gen/p/N82E16819118132
Intel Core i5-10400F $149.95

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157977
ASRock B560 Pro4 $109.99

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232884
G.SKILL Aegis (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) CL16 $79.99

*Total: $340*

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119385
ASUS PRIME B560M-A $109.99

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119384?Item=N82E16813119384
ASUS PRIME B560-PLUS $119.99

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157976 
ASRock B560 Steel Legend $129.99

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-10400f/
*Intel Core i5-10400F Review - Six Cores with HT for Under $200*

https://4youdaily.com/technology-an...cessor-review-do-you-still-like-ryzen-5-3600/
*Core i5-10400 and Core i5-10400F Processor Review: Do You Still Like Ryzen 5 3600?*


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## billEST (Mar 16, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> If only AMD would do something like this instead of catering to the rich.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-10400f-core-i5-10th-gen/p/N82E16819118132
> Intel Core i5-10400F $149.95
> ...


and you dont show itx board .....
and you dont show 10 degres less


remember you need 2666 memory .. is less expensive or give by amd fanboy  ...


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## Mussels (Mar 16, 2021)

ZoneDymo said:


> 540 vs 450 is quite a difference



especially when the 5800x is the gaming performance king, it's allowed to be worse in price: performance for its niche status


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## agentnathan009 (Mar 16, 2021)

Alexa said:


> You really think AMD is gonna be any better once they get comfy seeing people accept their ridiculous prices? Stop defending corporations, it makes you look pathetic.


Perhaps, but they are far from that point, it took Intel around 6-10 years to rest on their laurels and become slothful.

Just because your understanding of business is lacking doesn’t mean I am defending evil corporations. I have been around long enough to have seen that businesses have to make a profit and sometimes things happen that cost them a lot of money and either they cover that cost or close their doors. Just because a business doesn’t bend over backwards to offer you a product that you want at a price that you want to pay (whether they can afford to do so is another matter) doesn’t mean that you are not the selfish entity in the equation.

Don’t be sour, we are living in another golden age of CPU performance gains with each generation, double digit lately, rather than meager 5% or less as was the case with Intel with Sky Lake and Haswell uarch.

Did I want a quad core with HT when those were the hot new processors from Intel? Of course; could I afford the premium price for those products? No, I could not afford high end CPU hardware. Was I sour about it? Not really, I figured that someday as prices fell I could afford multi-core CPUs. Now I have a hex core that is serving me well for gaming and everything else I do, and it is only an optimized first gen Ryzen.


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## Why_Me (Mar 16, 2021)

billEST said:


> and you dont show itx board .....
> and you dont show 10 degres less
> *remember you need 2666 memory *.. is less expensive or give by amd fanboy  ...


The B560 boards support 3200MHz memory just like the Z490 board does used in these benchmarks. btw the i5 11400F supports 3200MHz RAM and will come in at $180 USD .. still cheaper than the $200 Ryzen 3600.

i5 10400F w/3200 RAM highlighted in green.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-10400f/15.html


----------



## agentnathan009 (Mar 16, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> If only AMD would do something like this instead of catering to the rich.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-10400f-core-i5-10th-gen/p/N82E16819118132
> Intel Core i5-10400F $149.95
> ...


Is the 3600 a capable CPU, yes. Does it cost a little more than the 10400, yes. Is it a gaming king with framerates, no. Is it a capable gaming CPU, yes. You guys have short memories.... You forget what Intel was doing not all that long ago where they were the more expensive brand and now that they have true competition, they have been dropping the prices on their products. Win for us.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 16, 2021)

When companies are doing poorly, they crunch down, trim the fat and become lean.

When they are lean if they expand again, all that budget goes to R&D and new products... until over a few years they spread the finances out into all the nice bloaty things big companies like.
Then eventually more and more goes into the bloat, and not the R&D and we end up with modern intel.

Yes, AMD will end up there in a few years - intel is approaching a crunch right now, the only mystery is how long before their next true killer product... or if they just rely on shady business practises to keep the money flowing despite flawed products and drag it out even longer intentionally


----------



## agentnathan009 (Mar 16, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> The B560 boards support 3200MHz memory just like the Z490 board does used in these benchmarks. btw the i5 11400F supports 3200MHz RAM and will come in at $180 USD .. still cheaper than the $200 Ryzen 3600.
> 
> i5 10400F w/3200 RAM highlighted in green.
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-10400f/15.html


Oh my goodness, stop the presses, breaking news, the AMD 3600 CPU is an apocalyptic 6% slower than the mighty Intel i5-10400! I guess you can't remember that Intel was charging premium prices a few years ago, were you complaining then as well?


----------



## Nater (Mar 16, 2021)

Mussels said:


> especially when the 5800x is the gaming performance king, it's allowed to be worse in price: performance for its niche status



Especially when it's working in the same rig I built 2 years ago w/ a Ryzen 5 2600.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 16, 2021)

agentnathan009 said:


> Oh my goodness, stop the presses, breaking news, the AMD 3600 CPU is an apocalyptic 6% slower than the mighty Intel i5-10400! I guess you can't remember that Intel was charging premium prices a few years ago, were you complaining then as well?


The money saved by going with the cheaper yet faster intel build can be put towards other components such as a larger SSD or even a non existent gpu _(damn you miners)_.


----------



## efikkan (Mar 16, 2021)

Alexa said:


> That much for an 8 core?


Why does it matter?
Shouldn't you only care what real-world performance it offers and at what power consumption?

If someone made a 4 core that was >2-3x faster than a 12 core and priced competitively, wouldn't you buy it?

People are too fixated about specs, specs which they usually know little about. You shouldn't get fixated in cores, threads, clock speeds, caches, gimmicks etc. all of those are ways to achieve what really matters; performance.



Tom Sunday said:


> Well...with the "Alder Lake" CPU virtually on our doorstep I hate to guess what the prices will then be for us to shell-out? Then in tune the all new mandated LGA 1700 mobos announcing themselves as well. The Z590 Asus Hero VIII now runs at $500 and this is not even their top-end board. So essentially all mobo manufacturers get to "double-dip" into profits this year as well. So everything we see right now runs at $500 plus.


We have no confirmation of the launch window for Alder Lake. It could be very late 2021, but quite possibly later.
If you're looking for a bargain, you would probably have to wait very long, availability of Alder Lake will likely be restricted the first few months. DDR5 will not be cheap in the beginning either. And don't forget the hybrid models will probably encounter a lot of software issues. Who wants to be beta testers for that?



Metroid said:


> 2021, 14nm+++++++++++++++++++++, base clock 2.5ghz tdp 60w --> real tdp 150w , boost clock 5.2ghz 120w, real tdp 500 watts.


Please stop posting this FUD.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 16, 2021)

efikkan said:


> Why does it matter?
> Shouldn't you only care what real-world performance it offers and at what power consumption?
> 
> If someone made a 4 core that was >2-3x faster than a 12 core and priced competitively, wouldn't you buy it?
> ...


Would rather get the 10850K over the 11900K, if performance is a factor. That price for an 8 core regardless of performance is abysmal.


----------



## efikkan (Mar 16, 2021)

Alexa said:


> Would rather get the 10850K over the 11900K, if performance is a factor. That price for an 8 core regardless of performance is abysmal.


i9-11900K is going to beat i9-10850K in most non-synthetic workloads.
Why are you fixating on an arbitrary specification as your criteria over actual performance? This is completely irrational!


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 16, 2021)

Rocket Lake in itself is arbitrary, and so are these prices. If both parties are gonna keep pricing these CPUs like this I may delay my next upgrade for the next two decades or so.


efikkan said:


> This is completely irrational!


Eh, maybe, haven't slept in 20 hours. Looking back at it, i7-11700K seems like a more reasonable choice over the i9-11900K. This gen's flagship is a disappointment.


----------



## billEST (Mar 16, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> The B560 boards support 3200MHz memory just like the Z490 board does used in these benchmarks. btw the i5 11400F supports 3200MHz RAM and will come in at $180 USD .. still cheaper than the $200 Ryzen 3600.
> 
> i5 10400F w/3200 RAM highlighted in green.
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-10400f/15.html



the goal is not do 3200 ( in some test is not better ) but do the more powerfull and economic machine : like amd say before

and if you do a 10400 and B460  and 2666 memory you can do a very , very good pc   and the 100 buck put in graphic card ( when price will be normal )


----------



## Basard (Mar 16, 2021)

Wait.... what is happening?

I've been out of the loop for almost six months....  

Did they JUST release an 8 core chip that BARELY out-clocks my 8700k?

They've either given up or are about to release a quantum chip that runs at room temp.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 16, 2021)

Basard said:


> Wait.... what is happening?
> 
> I've been out of the loop for almost six months....
> 
> ...


this was the new CPU design they had to scale down to 14nm - probably better IPC, but high wattage is to be expected (but not bad thermals, 14nm is good for getting heat out)


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Mar 16, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Unlike AMD, Intel obviously cares about the poor people who want a decent gaming cpu at an affordable price.






Why_Me said:


> If only AMD would do something like this instead of catering to the rich.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-10400f-core-i5-10th-gen/p/N82E16819118132
> Intel Core i5-10400F $149.95
> ...



Good lawd, we get it, you're an Intel fanboy. And stop with this fantasy that Intel -- INTEL -- "obviously cares about the poor people who want a decent gaming CPU at an affordable price" horseshit, bud. First off, they aren't fucking Mother Teresa; they DO NOT care about the "poor gamers" and THEY NEVER HAVE. I mean, JFC if it weren't for AMD striking back hard with Ryzen, there's not a geek here that doesn't already know Intel would *still *be rocking dual core i3's, quad core i5's and hexa core i7's at batshit crazy prices. Intel had to get off their complacent ass BECAUSE OF RYZEN. 

Second, quit acting like the 3600 gets *annihilated *by the 10400F. News flash, it doesn't. The difference between the two CPUs is damn near insignificant, so much so that you really can't go wrong with EITHER one.



agentnathan009 said:


> Oh my goodness, stop the presses, breaking news, the AMD 3600 CPU is an apocalyptic 6% slower than the mighty Intel i5-10400! I guess you can't remember that Intel was charging premium prices a few years ago, were you complaining then as well?



^ This!


----------



## ViperXTR (Mar 17, 2021)

oh look, it turning  into another muh intcel vs ayyyymd
war, war never changes


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 17, 2021)

ViperXTR said:


> oh look, it turning  into another muh intcel vs ayyyymd
> war, war never changes


The age old debate.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Mar 17, 2021)

Hahaha, as far as I'm concerned, AMD vs. Intel is just another one of those great rivalries alongside Coke vs. Pepsi and Ford vs. Chevy. Coincidentally, all of which share a "red vs. blue" theme  

There's also Giants vs. Dodgers but...well, you get the idea


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> Good lawd, we get it, you're an Intel fanboy. And stop with this fantasy that Intel -- INTEL -- "obviously cares about the poor people who want a decent gaming CPU at an affordable price" horseshit, bud. First off, they aren't fucking Mother Teresa; they DO NOT care about the "poor gamers" and THEY NEVER HAVE. I mean, JFC if it weren't for AMD striking back hard with Ryzen, there's not a geek here that doesn't already know Intel would *still *be rocking dual core i3's, quad core i5's and hexa core i7's at batshit crazy prices. Intel had to get off their complacent ass BECAUSE OF RYZEN.
> 
> Second, quit acting like the 3600 gets *annihilated *by the 10400F. News flash, it doesn't. The difference between the two CPUs is damn near insignificant, so much so that you really can't go wrong with EITHER one.
> 
> ...


I admire value and the fact Intel allows us poors to build a solid gaming rig for cheaper than what AMD allows.  That and I'm all for plug & play builds these days.  If you look at the System Builders Advice forum on here there's a couple of threads that are two and three pages deep on what RAM to get for an AMD build.  I see that and all I can think is _'wtf'_.


----------



## Deleted member 202104 (Mar 17, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> The difference between the two CPUs is damn near insignificant, so much so that you really can't go wrong with EITHER one.



We can even take this one step further and apply this to choosing between AMD and Intel.  Put all the current six and eight core CPUs from both brands on the wall and throw a dart.  You'll be fine with what ever you hit.

(yes I have a 10 core Intel part and it was a waste of money for what I do)


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 17, 2021)

Mine was also a major waste but I'm not complaining lol


----------



## Caring1 (Mar 17, 2021)

Gotta love the usual waver in the release: Reaching speeds of *up to* 5.30 GHz *with Intel Thermal Velocity Boost*
In other words it's crap without it, and only lasts a few seconds at best.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 17, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Gotta love the usual waver in the release: Reaching speeds of *up to* 5.30 GHz *with Intel Thermal Velocity Boost*
> In other words it's crap without it, and only lasts a few seconds at best.


wow its like me in the bedroom


----------



## MikeSnow (Mar 17, 2021)

Mussels said:


> especially when the 5800x is the gaming performance king, it's allowed to be worse in price: performance for its niche status


And being currently available here in Romania at $411 + VAT. So about 10% under the MSRP. I wish the GPU world was like this.


----------



## Turmania (Mar 17, 2021)

I will wait for reviews especially non k versions before giving my final judgement. I believe AMD will lead in performance per watt however there are many other equations such as total price of a new system and softwate/ bios reliability which I believe Intel would be miles ahead.


----------



## Makaveli (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> I admire value and the fact Intel allows us poors to build a solid gaming rig for cheaper than what AMD allows.  That and I'm all for plug & play builds these days.  If you look at the System Builders Advice forum on here there's a couple of threads that are two and three pages deep on what RAM to get for an AMD build.  I see that and all I can think is _'wtf'_.



If you look at the history of both companies in the last 30 years. Intel has held higher prices, AMD is the reason you are getting discounted pricing on Intel products now and the only reason. Then your point about not knowing what ram to get based on a couple forum pages just shows your inexperience in building computers. Stick to QVL for the motherboard you are getting then speed and latency based on your budget.

This story that you are trying to project that intel is for the poors is laughable at best.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Mar 17, 2021)

Everything up to the 11600KF looks pretty decent..... The 2 8 core chips look meh as F^%& though. I will wait for reviews like everyone should for final judgment.

All the poor people should be thanking AMD for being able to buy intel chips for a good price.  That's the biggest conclusion I came up with reading this thread Intel is now for poor people... Unless you want a decent Z590 board cuz those start around 300


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

Makaveli said:


> If you look at the history of both companies in the last 30 years. Intel has held higher prices, AMD is the reason you are getting discounted pricing on Intel products now and the only reason. Then your point about not knowing what ram to get based on a couple forum pages just shows your inexperience in building computers. Stick to QVL for the motherboard you are getting then speed and latency based on your budget.
> 
> This story that you are trying to project that intel is for the poors is laughable at best.


You do math?  Well then figure out what numbers are bigger. _AMD continues their war on poors._ =/ 









						Intel Core i5-10400F - Core i5 10th Gen Comet Lake 6-Core 2.9 GHz LGA 1200 65W Desktop Processor - BX8070110400F - Newegg.com
					

Buy Intel Core i5-10400F - Core i5 10th Gen Comet Lake 6-Core 2.9 GHz LGA 1200 65W Desktop Processor - BX8070110400F with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				



Intel Core i5-10400F $150.99

https://www.newegg.com/amd-ryzen-5-3600/p/N82E16819113569
AMD RYZEN 5 3600 $218.99

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/int...s-12-threads-29ghz-43ghz-turbo-12mb-cache-65w
Intel Core i5 10400F £124.99

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/int...reads-26ghz-44ghz-turbo-12mb-cache-65w-retail
Intel Core i5 11400F £149.99

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd...-turbo-32mb-l3-pcie-40-65w-with-wraith-stealt
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 £184.99 *(Was: £189.98 TODAY ONLY DEAL)*


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Mar 17, 2021)

^ you poor, sweet summer child...


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 17, 2021)

Only reason why Intel is the budget option now is because of AMD, why are you not understanding this simple fact.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

Alexa said:


> Only reason why Intel is the budget option now is because of AMD, why are you not understanding this simple fact.


Well duh.  When AMD charges more for their cpu's than Intel of course they're making Intel the budget option.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Mar 17, 2021)

That wasn't the point @Alexa was trying to make....


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> That wasn't the point @Alexa was trying to make....


Alexa deserved that reply for throwing me a low hanging curveball.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Well duh.  When AMD charges more for their cpu's than Intel of course they're making Intel the budget option.


You know, this entire thread I was pretty short-sighted. Yes AMD did increase prices, but I actually shouldn't and don't mind the price bumps considering the performance improvements of Zen 3. Intel did price bumps during the entirety of Skylake for single digit IPC improvements, if any.

Now they're on the defensive -- lowering prices so people will go and buy their CPUs instead, which in itself is not a bad thing. Lower prices is good for our wallets. I now wish Alder Lake would be good so AMD can do the same. Processors from both sides are more than enough to accomplish every task you need them to.

But saying that Intel is for the poor is... factually incorrect. They weren't up until Zen 3 appeared. Going by your logic, you're going to be yapping about how Intel is suddenly "declaring war on poor people" when they get the upper hand, increase prices, and AMD is forced to lower prices until they cook something up that can fight back.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Alexa deserved that reply for throwing me a low hanging curveball.



Come on man you seem like a smart enough dude..... The 10400F started life as a terrible value vs the 3600 on top of being locked into a z490 board for maximum performance vs only needing B450 with the 3600. Demand is dictating current pricing and even at its inflated price people rather purchase the 3600....


----------



## Mussels (Mar 17, 2021)

Intel dropped their prices because the products were inferior

Yes, that 10400F might be cheap... but whats a board cost that doesnt lock your ram speeds down, vs any old B450 board that can run any ryzen?


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

Alexa said:


> You know, this entire thread I was pretty short-sighted. Yes AMD did increase prices, but I actually shouldn't and don't mind the price bumps considering the performance improvements of Zen 3. Intel did price bumps during the entirety of Skylake for single digit IPC improvements, if any.
> 
> Now they're on the defensive -- lowering prices so people will go and buy their CPUs instead, which in itself is not a bad thing. Lower prices is good for our wallets. I now wish Alder Lake would be good so AMD can do the same. Processors from both sides are more than enough to accomplish every task you need them to.
> 
> But saying that Intel is for the poor is... factually incorrect. They weren't up until Zen 3 appeared. Going by your logic, you're going to be yapping about how Intel is suddenly "declaring war on poor people" when they get the upper hand, increase prices, and AMD is forced to lower prices until they cook something up that can fight back.


The fact of the matter is Intel has the manufacturing and distributing power to lower their prices on the Rocket Lake cpu's thus putting the screws to AMD even more so.  The only thing holding Intel back is the fact there isn't any gpu's to be had for new builds.  If Intel was on it they'd offer the chance to purchase one of these cards with the purchase of any i5 on up socket 1200 cpu and drive AMD right into the ground.

https://www.techpowerup.com/279731/intel-xe-hpg-graphics-card-could-compete-with-big-navi-ampere


----------



## Makaveli (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> You do math?  Well then figure out what numbers are bigger. _AMD continues their war on poors._ =/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't need to do the math you are being deliberately obtuse.

When company A has a higher performing product than company B they will price it as such. There is also supply and demand in the market which affects pricing. Intel like AMD are both publicly traded companies, they cannot offer products that are superior for cheap prices, they have shareholders to answer to not just you a consumer buying the products. They can get sued by their investors which can also tank share prices this game is bigger than you trying to save $40 bucks.

When intel has a superior product you can be sure they will price it as such, and your Intel for the poors argument goes out the window. I don't think you understand how any of this works and maybe time for a new hobby? A PS5 will be much cheaper and fit your budget.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

Mussels said:


> Intel dropped their prices because the products were inferior
> 
> Yes, that 10400F might be cheap... but whats a board cost that doesnt lock your ram speeds down, vs any old B450 board that can run any ryzen?


Not only do the new B560 boards support 3200MHz RAM but they also allow for memory OC. 

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007627 601360973   <--- a few of those boards are already starting to show up on US sites.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Not only does the new B560 boards support 3200MHz RAM but they also allow for memory OC.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007627 601360973   <--- a few of those boards are already starting to show up on US sites.



You do realize this is only because Ryzen has been pimp slapping intel in the diy market right........ Ryzen has had memory overclocking on its B boards since 2017..... Took intel over 4 years to join the party....


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> You do realize this is only because Ryzen has been pimp slapping intel in the diy market right........ Ryzen has had memory overclocking on its B boards since 2017..... Took intel over 4 years to join the party....


And I can remember back when Intel came up with the Core 2 Duo which was the biggest thing since the invention of sliced bread for the average Joe who wanted to OC their cpu without having to first become a rocket scientist.  Back to the present ... if you want a budget to mid-range gaming build then there's no reason to go with AMD atm unless you want less performance for your money.


----------



## Zotz (Mar 17, 2021)

"
"Unmatched Overclocking and Gaming Performance"​Where "unmatched" means what any reader would expect:  *slightly better in a couple of cases while drawing twice the power.*


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> The fact of the matter is Intel has the manufacturing and distributing power to lower their prices on the Rocket Lake cpu's thus putting the screws to AMD even more so.  The only thing holding Intel back is the fact there isn't any gpu's to be had for new builds.  If Intel was on it they'd offer the chance to purchase one of these cards with the purchase of any i5 on up socket 1200 cpu and drive AMD right into the ground.
> 
> https://www.techpowerup.com/279731/intel-xe-hpg-graphics-card-could-compete-with-big-navi-ampere


I'll be waiting for your posts bashing Intel for jacking up prices, and when AMD is suddenly the "good guy" again.


----------



## Zotz (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> And I can remember back when Intel came up with the Core 2 Duo which was the biggest thing since the invention of sliced bread for the average Joe who wanted to OC their cpu without having to first become a rocket scientist.  Back to the present ... if you want a budget to mid-range gaming build then there's no reason to go with AMD atm unless you want less performance for your money.


That budget to mid-range build better have high-end cooling.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

Alexa said:


> I'll be waiting for your posts bashing Intel for jacking up prices, and when AMD is suddenly the "good guy" again.


Back in the day ..  12 - 15 years ago if I had to guess, I used to post builds on a site called Tomshardware.  I didn't become prejudiced until I started to get fed up with the AMD fanbois on there .. and it wasn't only there but another site called Guru3d.  Ever since AMD got the drop on Intel they've become only worse.



Zotz said:


> That budget to mid-range build better have high-end cooling.


Tell me please how much cooling these cpu's require.  OC is going the way of the manual transmission. It's for hobbyist and peeps who don't mind spending more on cooling for a few more FPS.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1634...e-i710700k-review-is-65w-comet-lake-an-option 









						Intel Core i5-10400F Review - Six Cores with HT for Under $200
					

Intel's new Core i5-10400F offers a large performance jump over the previous generation Core i5-9400F because of its six-core/twelve-thread design. In this Core i5-10400F review we also test the feasibility of overclocking through BCLK, or by relaxing the PL1 and PL2 Turbo Limits.




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Back in the day ..  12 - 15 years ago if I had to guess, I used to post builds on a site called Tomshardware.  I didn't become prejudiced until I started to get fed up with the AMD fanbois on there .. and it wasn't only there but another site called Guru3d.  Ever since AMD got the drop on Intel they've become only worse.



Fanboys are definitely the worse for sure and we need intel to get down to 10nm and be more competitive because everyone wins if we have 2 companies making good products...... The 11400F you are looking at is going to be great and assuming it's retail price sticks pretty close to 1k tray pricing its gonna be a very good value....

Everyone should try both though wish people could sit down with a 3900X or 10700k or 3700X or 10600k or 3600 etc and realize how close everything is these days.........

I have pretty extensive in person hand on experience with both and they are all great....


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 17, 2021)

Hey, if this means I can pick up a 10900 or 10850 for cheap, I don't care.

I got a 10500 currently.  Could either get a 11700 as well, which would finally take advantage of my ddr4 3600 ram (z490 gaming plus) and I could have the benefits of PCIE 4.0

But then again, there really isn't much to any benefit at all.


----------



## ZoneDymo (Mar 17, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> Hey, if this means I can pick up a 10900 or 10850 for cheap, I don't care.
> 
> I got a 10500 currently.  Could either get a 11700 as well, which would finally take advantage of my ddr4 3600 ram (z490 gaming plus) and I could have the benefits of PCIE 4.0
> 
> But then again, there really isn't much to any benefit at all.



you can already get a 10850k for less then 400....why on earth you would get anything from this is beyond me, maybe the 11600k


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 17, 2021)

ZoneDymo said:


> you can already get a 10850k for less then 400....why on earth you would get anything from this is beyond me, maybe the 11600k


I'm trying to decide, that's why.

I'm thinking - would a 10850 be better or 11700 and be able to use PCIE 4.0?

Thinking out loud


----------



## HenrySomeone (Mar 17, 2021)

Alexa said:


> That much for an 8 core?


5800x was actually selling for even more than that until just recently, although yeah, considering how close the i7 is specs wise and that you can get 10850k for as low as 350$, this i9 probably won't be a huge sales success...


----------



## BSim500 (Mar 17, 2021)

There's a truck-load of dumb fanboyism here all round. Both will charge what they think they can get away with. And if we're judging everyone on history, the $799 launch price of the FX-9590's didn't exactly make AMD "the people's charity" either when they initially thought it was going to crush the i7's of the day. I never will understand why people actively cheer on price rises just because the cardboard box packaging is orange & grey vs blue & white. They are both businesses, not football teams or religions.

Think of how completely insane it would sound to hear _"Gee, I'm so glad the price of my Brother laser printer more than doubled vs the competition and Brother's own 3x previous models in the same range because HP has been stuck on the same render print speeds for 5 years"_, or _"I hope every PSU manufacturer except Corsair go out of business because they're my favourite" _or_ "The Coolermaster 212 EVO hasn't changed much. Therefore I think BeQuiet should increase their prices across their range..." _That's exactly how completely f**king dumb CPU / GPU fanboys sound on tech sites on an almost daily basis but always seem to lack the self-awareness to step back and listen to how that would sound to talk the same way about literally any other component / peripheral in the same PC...


----------



## ZoneDymo (Mar 17, 2021)

BSim500 said:


> There's a truck-load of dumb fanboyism here all round. Both will charge what they think they can get away with. And if we're judging everyone on history, the $799 launch price of the FX-9590's didn't exactly make AMD "the people's charity" either when they initially thought it was going to crush the i7's of the day. I never will understand why people actively cheer on price rises just because the cardboard box packaging is orange & grey vs blue & white. They are both businesses, not football teams or religions.



well I said it many times but I will again, sure, lower prices is better for the consumer but we all have our own internal mindset about what is and isnt a "fair price" for something.
AMD had to claw back respect and trust from everywhere, consumers, businesses, everywhere and everyone, so they came out swinging with Ryzen, multi cores for the masses.

And with Ryzen they were outdoing Intel in a lot of areas, just not gaming and perhaps stuff like photoshop, now with the 5000 series they got the crown across the board and I think its only fair that a price jump accompanies such a feat.

Now with Intel its a bit of an opposite story, king of the hill with the 2600k and then it was all boring from there on, "if their isnt competition, there is no need to innovate" is I guess Intel's way, and then when Ryzen came out they had to answer and just slapped more cores on the same architecture over and over and over again... and NOW this frankenstein 11th series could have been something special....but it isnt, its teh same performance and maxes out at 8 cores and apperently is quite hot....and then they ask these prices....

and sure they can ask what they think they can get away with, but you mistake fanboyism here for potential clients voicing their opinion that no, in fact, they cannot get away with these prices, we wont be buying these.


----------



## GerKNG (Mar 17, 2021)

"Launched Today"?

and why is there only one single listing in my whole country that allows for pre order (release 30.3.2021)


----------



## B-Real (Mar 17, 2021)

Some:

"Intel will definitely be cheaper than the ridiculously expensive Zen3. "

Intel:
"11900K with 8 cores for $540."

AMD:

$550 5900X  12 cores with probably better single thread performance, overwhelmingly better multi thread performance yet lower power consumption: "Hold my beer!"


----------



## HenrySomeone (Mar 17, 2021)

And where can you reliably get a $550 5900X even over 4 months after its release?


----------



## agentnathan009 (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> The money saved by going with the cheaper yet faster intel build can be put towards other components such as a larger SSD or even a non existent gpu _(damn you miners)_.


About $25 isn’t going to buy you much more of anything else. However, if that is what you can afford then so be thankful for AMD becoming competitive with Inte again and ultimately leading to that CPU being offered for the price that it is. We’re it not for Ryzen, that CPU would be $200 or more right now if AMD was still at deaths door.


----------



## B-Real (Mar 17, 2021)

HenrySomeone said:


> And where can you reliably get a $550 5900X even over 4 months after its release?



I was comparing MSRPs. You was able to buy it for $550 or EUR whatever at the start. I hope you admit it's not AMD's fault that the available 5900X are sold for 800 EUR. And don't worry, as soon as stocks will refill, they will go back to that 550 territory. Just asking: do you know how many 11900K will be available for $538?


----------



## Basard (Mar 17, 2021)

Mussels said:


> this was the new CPU design they had to scale down to 14nm - probably better IPC, but high wattage is to be expected (but not bad thermals, 14nm is good for getting heat out)


Well, I guess it's not all bad then....  They should really change the name and model number a bit more to let people know it's actually new.


----------



## HenrySomeone (Mar 17, 2021)

Zotz said:


> "
> "Unmatched Overclocking and Gaming Performance"​Where "unmatched" means what any reader would expect:  *slightly better in a couple of cases while drawing twice the power.*


Twice the power, huh? Not in your average workloads and certainly not while gaming - actually AMD still manages to hold "the crown" in that regard:


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 17, 2021)

BSim500 said:


> There's a truck-load of dumb fanboyism here all round. Both will charge what they think they can get away with. And if we're judging everyone on history, the $799 launch price of the FX-9590's didn't exactly make AMD "the people's charity" either when they initially thought it was going to crush the i7's of the day. I never will understand why people actively cheer on price rises just because the cardboard box packaging is orange & grey vs blue & white. They are both businesses, not football teams or religions.
> 
> Think of how completely insane it would sound to hear _"Gee, I'm so glad the price of my Brother laser printer more than doubled vs the competition and Brother's own 3x previous models in the same range because HP has been stuck on the same render print speeds for 5 years"_, or _"I hope every PSU manufacturer except Corsair go out of business because they're my favourite" _or_ "The Coolermaster 212 EVO hasn't changed much. Therefore I think BeQuiet should increase their prices across their range..." _That's exactly how completely f**king dumb CPU / GPU fanboys sound on tech sites on an almost daily basis but always seem to lack the self-awareness to step back and listen to how that would sound to talk the same way about literally any other component / peripheral in the same PC...


Finally someone with some sense.


----------



## Deleted member 197223 (Mar 17, 2021)

Just saw a 11700K for 4189 SEK/413€. And considering I gave 3999 SEK for my 8700K I'd say the price per core is decent. The price war is on regardless!
10 SEK = 0.99€. VAT = 25%








						11:e Gen. Intel® Core™ i7-11700K
					

Max. turbohastighet: 5,0 GHz, 8 st processorkärnor, Socket 1200, Intel® Smart Cache: 16 MB, Överklockningsbar



					www.netonnet.se
				











						11:e Gen. Intel® Core™ i7-11700KF
					

Max. turbohastighet: 5,0 GHz, 8 st processorkärnor, Socket 1200, Ingen inbyggd grafik, Överklockningsbar



					www.netonnet.se
				











						AMD Ryzen 7 5800X med 8 st kärnor
					

Socket AM4, 8 st kärnor & 16 st trådar, Max Turbo 4,7 GHz, AMD StoreMI-teknik, Stöd för PCIe 4.0



					www.netonnet.se


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 17, 2021)

11700 $449 cad





						Intel Core™ i7-11700 Processor, 2.5GHz w/ 8 Cores / 16 Threads - Intel 1200 CPUs - Memory Express Inc.
					






					www.memoryexpress.com
				




10850 $509 cad





						Intel Core™ i9-10850K Processor, 3.6GHz w/ 10 Cores / 20 Threads - Intel 1200 CPUs - Memory Express Inc.
					






					www.memoryexpress.com
				




AMD 5800X $639 cad





						AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800X Processor, 3.8GHz w/ 8 Cores / 16 Threads  - AMD AM4 CPUs - Memory Express Inc.
					






					www.memoryexpress.com
				




Currently, at least for Canadians, the prices of the Intel is better.  I of course rare if ever use a standard desktop these days and either use workstation processors (currently using a E5 1620 v3 in my workstation ) or a Intel 10500 ES chip in my desktop.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 17, 2021)

Okay, so - my opinion:

*All of the i9 models* are stupid because of pricing for 8-core parts. They're not even competitive with their own existing products, let alone the competition, and we know they run HOT HOT HOT. We all thought 9th and 10th Gen were each as bad as it was going to get, but apparently Intel doesn't have a problem with 300W CPUs in a consumer socket.

*All of the i3 models* are pointless because of their stupid product segmentation cutting out performance, support, and features. If you don't need cores/performance get the G6405 for $64. It'll do practically everything any of the i3s do at the same speed and if you actually need multi-threaded performance, a pissy quad core isn't the answer.

*The i7-11700/11700F* look okay on paper. Street price of $100 less than a 5800X, give or take - a good match with some DDR4-3200 and a sensibly-priced H470 board. K series make little sense unless you're an Intel fanboy and want inferior performance and ridiculous power consumption and cost the same or more once you've been forced to spend on a Z-series board and premium RAM - which _still _won't close the gap to a 5800X with affordable B550/DDR4-3600.

*The i5-11500F* looks interesting as much cheaper 5600X competitor. No it won't be as fast or as efficient but there's no denying the $299 MSRP on the 5600X is too high. I expect the street price to be closer to $180 and if any Intel chip makes AMD release a cheaper 6-core Zen3 part, it'll be this one. IMO, this is *the chip* to buy in 2021 unless AMD responds.


----------



## Deleted member 197223 (Mar 17, 2021)

Cheap 3200mhz CL14 RAM has existed for at least 4 years since 2018. So why anyone (probably those coming from DDR3) would find it hard to keep their RAM when upgrading from Zen 1/2 or 6700K/7700K/8700K Skylake is anyone's guess. Or does the average consumer throw away everything when they upgrade?


----------



## agentnathan009 (Mar 17, 2021)

Alexa said:


> Finally someone with some sense.


Ugh, that is kind of how you sounded with the “I don’t support monopolies but I’m buying from the monopolistic company anyway because they are offer a product that is priced closer to what I am willing to pay” response earlier. I am attempting to help others who seem to lack any sense of how business work to understand that they have to cover costs. AMD’s margins per product have been fairly consistent over the past couple of years.

But let fanboyism reign supreme because you can’t buy what you want, when you want, how you want and at the price you want which sounds like a whole lot of selfishness with nary a drop of understanding of how a business works...


----------



## Makaveli (Mar 17, 2021)

sepheronx said:


> 11700 $449 cad
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Why did you choose to add the 11700 and not the 11700k which is $559 CAD, while the other models are the highend ones?

Wouldn't it be more consitent to compare all unlocked K and X models?






						Intel Core™ i7-11700K Processor, 3.6GHz w/ 8 Cores / 16 Threads - Intel 1200 CPUs - Memory Express Inc.
					






					www.memoryexpress.com


----------



## sepheronx (Mar 17, 2021)

Makaveli said:


> Why did you choose to add the 11700 and not the 11700k which is $559 CAD, while the other models are the highend ones?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good question. I just grabbed em quick.  Thanks for pointing out my error.  So let me redo it then:

10900F - $470 CAD





						Intel Core™ i9-10900F Processor, 2.8GHz w/ 10 Cores / 20 Threads  - Intel 1200 CPUs - Memory Express Inc.
					






					www.memoryexpress.com
				




11700(non K) - $450





						Intel Core™ i7-11700 Processor, 2.5GHz w/ 8 Cores / 16 Threads - Intel 1200 CPUs - Memory Express Inc.
					






					www.memoryexpress.com
				




10700 - $370





						Intel Core™ i7-10700 Processor, 2.9 GHz w/ 8 Cores / 16 Threads  - Intel 1200 CPUs - Memory Express Inc.
					






					www.memoryexpress.com
				




So the 11700 falls near the cheapest 10/20 Intel processor by -$20CAD.

In the end, what matters if PCIe 4.0 matters or not in performance.  So far, its purely synthetic and nothing really noticeable or beneficial in anything - especially gaming.  So I would say that it may not be worth grabbing the newer chips and a 10900F would be a far better buy or if you are OK with going cheaper, than a 10700 or lower is sufficient.  Or AMD's 3000 series CPU's.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

Makaveli said:


> Why did you choose to add the 11700 and not the 11700k which is $559 CAD, while the other models are the highend ones?
> 
> Wouldn't it be more consitent to compare all unlocked K and X models?
> 
> ...


Do the math.









						Intel Core i7-10700 vs Core i7-10700K Review: Is 65W Comet Lake an Option?
					






					www.anandtech.com


----------



## Makaveli (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Do the math.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lol why don't you respond to the last post I sent you?

And what is that Anandtech review about a 65w comet lake have to do with Math?

You are gonna have to up your game if you want to troll with me son.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

Makaveli said:


> lol why don't you respond to the last post I sent you?
> 
> And what is that Anandtech review about a 65w comet lake have to do with Math?
> 
> You are gonna have to up your game if you want to troll with me son.


Didn't see the last post .. I'll check it out in a bit. Meanwhile there's a reason Intel puts out locked and unlocked cpu's.  Unlocked ones are for the small minority who don't mind paying more for cooling along with a board with heftier VRM's for that small gain it brings. The rest of us look at the benchmarks along with the savings and thank ourselves for going with the locked cpu.  That's where the math comes in or didn't you figure that out yet.


----------



## Makaveli (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Didn't see the last post .. I'll check it out in a bit. Meanwhile there's a reason Intel puts out locked and unlocked cpu's.  Unlocked ones are for the small minority who don't mind paying more for cooling along with a board with heftier VRM's for that small gain it brings. The rest of us look at the benchmarks along with the savings and thank ourselves for going with the locked cpu.  That's where the math comes in or didn't you figure that out yet.



I don't buy locked CPU's so no I didn't bother even thinking about it. And i'm not working with a small budget so trying to save a few bucks here and there also not a big deal.

To each his own and good luck.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

Makaveli said:


> I don't buy locked CPU's so no I didn't bother even thinking about it. And i'm not working with a small budget so trying to save a few bucks here and there also not a big deal.


Yet it is a big deal with most buyers. 

The Z boards allow for that unlocked cpu to be OC.  Factor in the cost of the board vs the B560 boards, the cost for better cpu cooling and the cost of the unlocked cpu vs the locked cpu.  That difference will get you a 1TB nvme SSD with money left over.









						ASUS PRIME Z590-P LGA 1200 ATX Intel Motherboard - Newegg.com
					

Buy ASUS PRIME Z590-P LGA 1200 Intel Z590 SATA 6Gb/s ATX Intel Motherboard with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				



ASUS PRIME Z590-P  $189.99

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119384?Item=N82E16813119384
ASUS PRIME B560-PLUS $119.99


----------



## Tom Sunday (Mar 17, 2021)

efikkan said:


> People are too fixated about specs, specs which they usually know little about. We have no confirmation of the launch window for Alder Lake. It could be very late 2021, but quite possibly later.
> 
> *Intel* Reports *First-Quarter* 2021 financial results on Thursday, April 22, 2021 at the close of market. I am quite sure that the Intel boys will then let the plain facts tell the story. Discussions with their major attending institutional investors will be addressing their "readily available" Z590 product (by then on the market in full swing) and the Alder Lake arrival and its progress later this year. The pallette of their Z590 CPU's which are produced in Intel very owned foundries is expected to be selling like hotcakes. It is said that many enthusiasts simply cannot wait any longer to upgrade and then additionally to relish in the Z590 motherboard offerings. Better chipset expansion and PCIe 4.0 leading the way. Wall Street in turn is no longer in favor of AMD and prefers Intel as it can deliver for now guaranteed CPU production, deliveries and sales unlike AMD. It is well known that AMD has major production problems and is already in talk to expanding its subcontracting of their chipsets. TSMC, the world’s largest contract manufacturer of chipsets was not able to meet AMD's expectations. The engagement of an additional (overseas) new chip contractor will however take time as to complete factory retooling is necessary and as much as 120-180 days before full production is realized. AMD once the investment darling has also recently dropped in stock value and the fact remains that Wall Street has no memory. My take-away: AMD should get their own USA based foundries and get complete control of their fate and not finding it overseas. Furthermore, there are downsides to working with multiple foundry partners. AMD would be paying twice to design the same CPU, and each version would have to be customized to the foundry it was built on. We are living in interesting times.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

Rocket Lake cpu's listed on US & UK sites for less than 48 hours now and they're already dropping the prices on those cpu's.  Intel once again showing the


----------



## Octopuss (Mar 17, 2021)

Unmatched power consumption too?
(haven't made up my mind whether it's even worth reading the article yet )


----------



## Tom Sunday (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Rocket Lake cpu's listed on US & UK sites for less than 48 hours now and they're already dropping the prices on those cpu's.


Yes Sir...I love competition and what it does for the man on the street like me. With WFH and part-time jobs with no benefits prevailing cash remains king. I am dreaming about a Z590 Asus mobo as well but those prices are also out of reach. Perhaps coming-off a 10 plus year older PC set-up, I should consider in going with a Z490 upgrade approach and wait for those hardware components to go on sale.Thoughts?


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

Tom Sunday said:


> Yes Sir...I love competition and what it does for the man on the street like me. With WFH and part-time jobs with no benefits prevailing cash remains king. I am dreaming about a Z590 Asus mobo as well but those prices are also out of reach. Perhaps coming-off a 10 plus year older PC set-up, I should consider in going with a Z490 upgrade approach and wait for those hardware components to go on sale.Thoughts?


Tough to recommend a Z board and unlocked cpu these days when the locked cpu's are going head to head with the unlocked cpu's by a simple manipulation of the block multiplier on a B560 board.


----------



## agentnathan009 (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Rocket Lake cpu's listed on US & UK sites for less than 48 hours now and they're already dropping the prices on those cpu's.  Intel once again showing the


Nah, they are admitting they have an inferior product!


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

agentnathan009 said:


> Nah, they are admitting they have an inferior product!


No doubt that AMD cpu's are superior to Intel's when it comes to cpu intensive task.  With that said the average buyer who is looking at a general office build and/or gaming build will most likely go Intel for not only the savings but also the simple plug & play Intel builds offer.  Watch Intel continue to drop the price on their cpu's knowing that AMD can't afford to do the same due to AMD's junior league manufacturing & distribution methods.


----------



## agentnathan009 (Mar 17, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> No doubt that AMD cpu's are superior to Intel's when it comes to cpu intensive task.  With that said the average buyer who is looking at a general office build and/or gaming build will most likely go Intel for not only the savings but also the simple plug & play Intel builds offer.  Watch Intel continue to drop the price on their cpu's knowing that AMD can't afford to do the same due to AMD's junior league manufacturing & distribution methods.


AMD was a serious competitor to Intel back in the day, but they made some poor choices around 15-20 ago that lead to Intel growing a lot with the Core architecture. AMD is not in the junior leagues, they are churning out competitive and superior products. They haven’t recaptured the market share that they lost over the years. Ryzen uarch is helping them regain market share, and giving Intel much needed competition to drive innovation from both companies. AMD used to own all their own fabs but sold them off to get leaner and pay debt. Intel is stumbling badly trying to get 10nm node up and running smoothly whereas TSMC has left them in the dust with node shrinks. Obviously their respective nodes are not directly comparable, but I say this to point out that Intel isn’t doing so hot right now. AMD is spread a bit thin with manufacturing from TSMC, but they don’t have to fund their own chip fan I g, they let TSMC deal with those headaches, but that can also be a problem for them if something goes south for TSMC.

Also, you forget that AMD offers very competitive Ryzen CPU with onboard graphics that decimate Intel’s offerings and at a lower price point for OEM and system builders. The average Joe wanting a home office computer is t buying the chips we buy, they are buying the Ryzen 4000 series powered computers.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 17, 2021)

agentnathan009 said:


> AMD was a serious competitor to Intel back in the day, but they made some poor choices around 15-20 ago that lead to Intel growing a lot with the Core architecture. AMD is not in the junior leagues, they are churning out competitive and superior products. They haven’t recaptured the market share that they lost over the years. Ryzen uarch is helping them regain market share, and giving Intel much needed competition to drive innovation from both companies. AMD used to own all their own fabs but sold them off to get leaner and pay debt. Intel is stumbling badly trying to get 10nm node up and running smoothly whereas TSMC has left them in the dust with node shrinks. Obviously their respective nodes are not directly comparable, but I say this to point out that Intel isn’t doing so hot right now. AMD is spread a bit thin with manufacturing from TSMC, but they don’t have to fund their own chip fan I g, they let TSMC deal with those headaches, but that can also be a problem for them if something goes south for TSMC.
> 
> Also, you forget that AMD offers very competitive Ryzen CPU with onboard graphics that decimate Intel’s offerings and at a lower price point for OEM and system builders. The average Joe wanting a home office computer is t buying the chips we buy, they are buying the Ryzen 4000 series powered computers.


Intel is dropping prices while AMD is raising theirs in some countries.  If AMD learned anything from this virus, it's don't have a junior league manufacturing & distribution setup if you want to trade blows with Team Blue.  btw how good of onboard graphics does one require to run MS Office @ 1080P.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 17, 2021)

HenrySomeone said:


> Twice the power, huh? Not in your average workloads and certainly not while gaming - actually AMD still manages to hold "the crown" in that regard:








An average is not the same as peak - and the intels DO peak much much higher

It also rubs in the point that the intels are fast... but only for a few seconds before they have to slow down again.
Of course everyone just slaps in an all core OC to fix that issue, shooting the wattage back up again


----------



## agentnathan009 (Mar 18, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Intel is dropping prices while AMD is raising theirs in some countries.  If AMD learned anything from this virus, it's don't have a junior league manufacturing & distribution setup if you want to trade blows with Team Blue.  btw how good of onboard graphics does one require to run MS Office @ 1080P.


When you can buy two AMD desktops for the price of one Intel, it is a can be a no brainer for some businesses. Marketing can talk up onboard graphics for DOTA, Fortnight, etc. for the very casual gamer and AMD lays the smackdown on Intel in this category.



			https://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/business-solutions/prodesk-600-mini#!&tab=vao
		




			https://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/business-solutions/hp-prodesk-405-mini#!&tab=vao


----------



## Minus Infinity (Mar 18, 2021)

Gee you'd have to be desperate to get this toaster rather than wait for Alder Lake. Alder Lake will have 20% IPC uplift but massive multi-thread uplift. Alder Lake looks likely to give AMD a hurry up and even Zen3+ might not be enough to overtake it. Rocket Lake is a desperate move to win 1080p laming benchmarks, because hey I spend big dollars on high-end CPU and GPU to play at 1080p.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 18, 2021)

Minus Infinity said:


> Gee you'd have to be desperate to get this toaster rather than wait for Alder Lake. Alder Lake will have 20% IPC uplift but massive multi-thread uplift. Alder Lake looks likely to give AMD a hurry up and even Zen3+ might not be enough to overtake it. Rocket Lake is a desperate move to win 1080p laming benchmarks, because hey I spend big dollars on high-end CPU and GPU to play at 1080p.


Alder Lake won't compete with Zen3, at least not for long. AMD's answer to Alder Lake already exists in the flesh - as Epyc engineering samples, and it's reported to have 29% higher IPC than Zen3.

By the time Alder Lake and DDR5 hit mass market, AMD will be selling something 29% faster than Zen3 on TSMC 5nm and I don't know about you but I trust TSMC more than Intel's still no-show for any high-performance 10nm parts. 10nm might be better than it was but there are no desktop, server, or datacenter products made using 10nm. It's flaky and unimpressive - we've had a bunch of Ice Lake laptops and they run hot and slow, two have gone back under warranty for IGP failure. Tiger Lake may be better but once bitten, twice shy so I've never used one.



Tom Sunday said:


> Yes Sir...I love competition and what it does for the man on the street like me. With WFH and part-time jobs with no benefits prevailing cash remains king. I am dreaming about a Z590 Asus mobo as well but those prices are also out of reach. Perhaps coming-off a 10 plus year older PC set-up, I should consider in going with a Z490 upgrade approach and wait for those hardware components to go on sale.Thoughts?


If value for money is important and your existing rig is 10+ years old, just grab an i5-11400 with some DDR4-3200 on a B560 board. It's going to be a vast improvement over a C2Q and if you grab yourself a decent budget 1TB NVMe drive like the WD SN550 or Kingston A2000 you're going to be getting a big upgrade for not a lot of cash.

I'll assume you already have a GPU, if not stick with the HD 750 IGP until GPUs are available again. Amusingly the GTX 970 is terrible for mining so those are going for a reasonably price on ebay (£125 or so) which makes them "good" performance/$ if you need _something_ right now that's approximately capable of 1080p60 in plenty of games.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 18, 2021)

It's the low VRAM on the 970's crippling them for mining, so yes they're selling cheap

You need about 5GB of VRAM these days for a mining card and they're only 3.5GB of fast VRAM with their fun scandal, so they've been too 'weak' for some time allowing prices to drop


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 18, 2021)

I'd like to see Intel attempt to compete with this:


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 18, 2021)

Alexa said:


> I'd like to see Intel attempt to compete with this:


Intel don't even need to attempt, they won _The Great Frequency War_ (that nobody cared about) decades ago! 




photoshop, you say? how deplorable!


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 18, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> Intel don't even need to attempt, they won the Frequency wars that nobody cared about decades ago!
> 
> View attachment 192943
> photoshop, you say? how deplorable!


Holy hell


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 18, 2021)

Alexa said:


> Holy hell


That's idle clocks, too. *Cough*


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 18, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> If value for money is important and your existing rig is 10+ years old, just grab an i5-11400 with some DDR4-3200 on a B560 board. It's going to be a vast improvement over a C2Q and if you grab yourself a decent budget 1TB NVMe drive like the WD SN550 or Kingston A2000 you're going to be getting a big upgrade for not a lot of cash.
> 
> I'll assume you already have a GPU, if not stick with the HD 750 IGP until GPUs are available again. Amusingly the GTX 970 is terrible for mining so those are going for a reasonably price on ebay (£125 or so) which makes them "good" performance/$ if you need _something_ right now that's approximately capable of 1080p60 in plenty of games.


This  ^^


----------



## Tom Sunday (Mar 18, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> Alder Lake won't compete with Zen3, at least not for long. AMD's answer to Alder Lake already exists in the flesh - as Epyc engineering samples, and it's reported to have 29% higher IPC than Zen3.
> 
> By the time Alder Lake and DDR5 hit mass market, AMD will be selling something 29% faster than Zen3 on TSMC 5nm and I don't know about you but I trust TSMC more than Intel's still no-show for any high-performance 10nm parts. 10nm might be better than it was but there are no desktop, server, or datacenter products made using 10nm. It's flaky and unimpressive - we've had a bunch of Ice Lake laptops and they run hot and slow, two have gone back under warranty for IGP failure. Tiger Lake may be better but once bitten, twice shy so I've never used one.
> 
> ...


Many thanks and your points are very well taken and really appreciated. Indeed I am long overdue for a total new 'set-up' and as you probably gleaned from my cobbled together and posted existing system specifications. Even though I am limping along, I am currently on my third Mobo, AIO, GPU and PSU and upgraded memory. Most of which having been costly compliments of Dell's splendid propiatary hardware. For the "New Build" of course I want to be sure first in having all of the new hardware parts on my table. And not finding myself hung-up (as an example) on a GPU unavailability and which money cannot buy. This said my trusty GTX 980ti should be able to carrying me through until the 3000 series cards are readily available at MSRP. Until then I will just play Dishonored, Fallout 4 and Wolfenstein for the 100th time. No rest for the weary.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 18, 2021)

Tom Sunday said:


> Many thanks and your points are very well taken and really appreciated. Indeed I am long overdue for a total new 'set-up' and as you probably gleaned from my cobbled together and posted existing system specifications. Even though I am limping along, I am currently on my third Mobo, AIO, GPU and PSU and upgraded memory. Most of which having been costly compliments of Dell's splendid propiatary hardware. For the "New Build" of course I want to be sure first in having all of the new hardware parts on my table. And not finding myself hung-up (as an example) on a GPU unavailability and which money cannot buy. This said my trusty GTX 980ti should be able to carrying me through until the 3000 series cards are readily available at MSRP. Until then I will just play Dishonored, Fallout 4 and Wolfenstein for the 100th time. No rest for the weary.


980Ti is still a fine card, You'll be fine with it as long as you're not aiming for 1440p144Hz or 4K60. I've just sold my 5700XT for a disgusting price on ebay (more than double what I paid for it brand new) and am currently playing SOTR, Prey, and Borderlands3 DLCs on a vanilla 980 I had lying around. Buttery smooth at max, or near-max graphics settings.

It's easy to get swept up in the hype but AAA games can still look great at 1080p60 and higher resolutions and framerates don't make the game itself any better.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 18, 2021)

Hah i had an AMD A6 laptop years ago you could change the multi on and windows would read it, but it'd never affect the clocks - we had screenies of 50GHz for shiz n gigs back then

Tom sunday: 980 Ti is still perfectly fine for all 1080p use, or 1440p at lower settings. That extra 2GB makes all the difference in 2021


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Mar 19, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> I admire value and the fact Intel allows us poors to build a solid gaming rig for cheaper than what AMD allows.  That and I'm all for plug & play builds these days.  If you look at the System Builders Advice forum on here there's a couple of threads that are two and three pages deep on what RAM to get for an AMD build.  I see that and all I can think is _'wtf'_.


Yeah thats why their apus are rubbish forcing you to get a dgpu
Vega DUNKS on any intel gpu


----------



## lightning70 (Mar 19, 2021)

The i9 is very expensive. The foremost processors I've seen in this series are the 11400F and 11700F.


----------



## hat (Mar 19, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Didn't see the last post .. I'll check it out in a bit. Meanwhile there's a reason Intel puts out locked and unlocked cpu's.  Unlocked ones are for the small minority who don't mind paying more for cooling along with a board with heftier VRM's for that small gain it brings. The rest of us look at the benchmarks along with the savings and thank ourselves for going with the locked cpu.  That's where the math comes in or didn't you figure that out yet.


I remember a time when neither CPU, nor RAM settings were locked by either company. Sure we didn't have sensibly priced chips with unlocked multipliers, but nobody cared because we could just adjust FSB. Not anymore... and locking users out of setting whatever memory speeds they want unless you buy such and such special kit is a bit of a low blow. Even now Intel is only beginning to graciously allow us to do so with midrange equipment.


----------



## Melvis (Mar 19, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Unlike AMD, Intel obviously cares about the poor people who want a decent gaming cpu at an affordable price.



This has to be sarcasm right? there is no way this isnt? or your brand new to computers?


Why_Me said:


> The money saved by going with the cheaper yet faster intel build can be put towards other components such as a larger SSD or even a non existent gpu _(damn you miners)_.



This sounds exactly what us would say about AMD for the past oh I dont know 20yrs? lol


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 19, 2021)

Melvis said:


> This has to be sarcasm right? there is no way this isnt? or your brand new to computers?


We tried explaining it to him, it's a lost cause


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 19, 2021)

Melvis said:


> This has to be sarcasm right? there is no way this isnt? or your brand new to computers?
> 
> 
> This sounds exactly what us would say about AMD for the past oh I dont know 20yrs? lol


Yet I doubt you can post an AMD build as cheap as an Intel build that will match its performance.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 19, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Yet I doubt you can post an AMD build as cheap as an Intel build that will match its performance.


While it's true that Intel builds can be cheaper nowadays, you fail to understand that they've never been the budget option until Zen 3 appeared. AMD will once again be the budget option when Intel releases something good. And if you do understand, why are you still going on with this idea? If anything, throughout both companies' lifetime, AMD has been the cheaper option. Nobody bats an eye until they suddenly increase prices on something, then that's a problem.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 19, 2021)

Alexa said:


> While it's true that Intel builds can be cheaper nowadays, you fail to understand that they've never been the budget option until Zen 3 appeared. AMD will once again be the budget option when Intel releases something good. And if you do understand, why are you still going on with this idea? If anything, throughout both companies' lifetime, AMD has been the cheaper option. Nobody bats an eye until they suddenly increase prices on something, then that's a problem.


I can post an Intel build for cheaper that will run circles around a similar AMD build.  Intel cares


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Mar 19, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> I can post an Intel build for cheaper that will run circles around a similar AMD build.  Intel cares


ok do that without a gpu
ill wait


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 19, 2021)

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-3-6GHz-Cache-Desktop/dp/B081TL8XTM/ 
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 *$229.99*

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i5-10400F-Desktop-Processor-Graphics/dp/B086MHSTWN/ 
Intel Core i5-10400F *$152.00*






						Amazon.com: Intel Core i7-10700F Desktop Processor 8 Cores up to 4.8 GHz Without Processor Graphics LGA1200 (Intel 400 Series chipset) 65W : Electronics
					

Buy Intel Core i7-10700F Desktop Processor 8 Cores up to 4.8 GHz Without Processor Graphics LGA1200 (Intel 400 Series chipset) 65W: CPU Processors - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				



Intel Core i7-10700F *$268.23*


----------



## Mussels (Mar 19, 2021)

Aight, at this point it's just trolling


----------



## Super XP (Mar 19, 2021)

Nothing interesting about this launch. Its the same old CPUs trying to keep up with new ZEN3 tech.
I welcome the competition of course. But its not always rosy with how Intel conducts its business practices unfortunately.

Did those clock speeds regress?

And yes people PC Hardware is Well Over Priced. Lets all thank Crypto Mining for all these Ripoff prices we are witnessing. When is the Crypto Bubble going to burst? I don't see an end to this. You?


----------



## coozie78 (Mar 19, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> I can post an Intel build for cheaper that will run circles around a similar AMD build.  Intel cares


Post one that can match my 3900X for CPU rendering, pal.
We don't all just play games!

And, amazingly, ON TOPIC: Not impressed, not at all, and that Anandtech  review others have mentioned isn't getting me excited either.
The way things are going my current 3900X/1080Ti is going to have to keep going for MUCH longer.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 19, 2021)

Would rather not repeat myself trying to explain common sense to Why_Me (curious how a certain person is liking all his posts), because as Mussels said at this point it's just trolling.


coozie78 said:


> The way things are going my current 3900X/1080Ti is going to have to keep going for MUCH longer.


I am underestimating my 3070 way too much due to that 8 GB of VRAM, probably. Otherwise, same CPU. Hope it lasts.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 19, 2021)

Isaac` said:


> Yeah thats why their apus are rubbish forcing you to get a dgpu
> Vega DUNKS on any intel gpu


Gotta admit, I'm tempted to pick up a TigerLake i5. The i5-1135G7 appears to be in the same ballpark as a 4700U's Vega7; never more than 15% slower and sometimes more than 15% faster.

Vega integrated graphics DUNKED on any Intel IGP when it was launched four years ago but Vega has stagnated whilst Intel have been making huge gains with their IGPs every generation since then.

I mean, the guy who designed Vega and learnt all the lessons of Vega has been working for Intel for those same four years.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 19, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> Gotta admit, I'm tempted to pick up a TigerLake i5. The i5-1135G7 appears to be in the same ballpark as a 4700U's Vega7; never more than 15% slower and sometimes more than 15% faster.
> 
> Vega integrated graphics DUNKED on any Intel IGP when it was launched four years ago but Vega has stagnated whilst Intel have been making huge gains with their IGPs every generation since then.
> 
> I mean, the guy who designed Vega and learnt all the lessons of Vega has been working for Intel for those same four years.


Can't argue with that, Intel has been progressing nicely in the iGPU department lately.


----------



## Hachi_Roku256563 (Mar 19, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> Gotta admit, I'm tempted to pick up a TigerLake i5. The i5-1135G7 appears to be in the same ballpark as a 4700U's Vega7; never more than 15% slower and sometimes more than 15% faster.
> 
> Vega integrated graphics DUNKED on any Intel IGP when it was launched four years ago but Vega has stagnated whilst Intel have been making huge gains with their IGPs every generation since then.
> 
> I mean, the guy who designed Vega and learnt all the lessons of Vega has been working for Intel for those same four years.


but the latest gen of vega is still ahead


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 19, 2021)

coozie78 said:


> Post one that can match my 3900X for CPU rendering, pal.
> We don't all just play games!
> 
> And, amazingly, ON TOPIC: Not impressed, not at all, and that Anandtech  review others have mentioned isn't getting me excited either.
> The way things are going my current 3900X/1080Ti is going to have to keep going for MUCH longer.


I didn't realize the 3900X was such a beast until I looked at the benchmarks _(yes I'm eating crow atm)_.









						Intel Core i9-10900 Review - Fail at Stock, Impressive when Unlocked
					

In our Core i9-10900 review we're taking a close look at what can be gained from unlocking the power limit of this 65 W processor. Results are impressive: up to 40% faster apps and performance that rivals the Core i9-10900K at much lower pricing, but heat output is increased, too.




					www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 19, 2021)

Isaac` said:


> but the latest gen of vega is still ahead


Yeah, barely.
Vega's lead is debatable over 96EU Xe in the i7. It varies from game to game and doesn't win them all, just a majority.
I'm looking at Vega7 vs the 80EU Xe in the i5, and that's equally not a clear-cut win for Vega.

Back when Vega IGPs launched, AMD were 60-100% faster. Now the latest generation of Vega's average lead is maybe 5-10% and the supply/availability of decent 4700U/4800U laptops is terrible compared to the huge number of design wins for Tiger Lake. I can find a good quality, all-metal chassis, dual-channel, 16GB, 300+ nits display i5 laptops far more easily and for a better price than I can find a similar thing in 4700U or higher. I really like my 2700U laptop but I've been waiting to replace it for a year now and the choices in that time have been unappealing - either bad laptops or hideously overpriced. There are multiple good Tiger Lake options and it's only been on the market for a couple of months, unlike Renoir which supposedly launched in February 2020.



Why_Me said:


> I didn't realize the 3900X was such a beast until I looked at the benchmarks _(yes I'm eating crow atm)_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought a 5800X for myself but I'm still using the 3900X I pinched from work because it's_ a beast_, even at stock. I guess 64MB L3 Cache is still incredible even if it's split into four chunks


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 19, 2021)

Can confirm, my 3900X is a good boy


----------



## Mussels (Mar 20, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> I didn't realize the 3900X was such a beast until I looked at the benchmarks _(yes I'm eating crow atm)_.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Many reviews want the unit to look good, so they only show the times it wins (intel CPU's that means gaming results, specifically DX9/DX11 titles)


When you find unbiased reviews oh boy, AMD has some areas they just absolutely dominate (the 12 and 16 core parts are absurd for rendering and workloads)


----------



## Melvis (Mar 20, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Yet I doubt you can post an AMD build as cheap as an Intel build that will match its performance.


Ok Sure

Intel Build:
11700K $649
MSI Z490-A Pro $239
2x8GB DDR4 3600Mhz $129
Powercolor 6700XT Red Devil $999
Case $62
Silverstone PSU Gold 750W $149
SSD 500GB $89

Total $2316

AMD Build
5800X $650 (Amazon Australia)
Gigabyte X570 UD $189
2x8GB DDR4 3600Mhz $129
Powercolor 6700XT Red Devil $999
Case $62
Silverstone PSU Gold 750W $149
SSD 500GB $89

Total $2267

There ya go son, two exact same builds, one AMD, one Intel with prices directly from the best online computer store in Australia (ill include screen shots for you) and as you can see and already know the AMD system is already proven to be faster look at the review online and also using the cheapest Z490 and X570 Motherboards BUT note that the AMD build can be even cheaper as you can use a B450 Motherboard that will allow Memory and CPU overclocking so thats considered a mid price for the AMD build not the cheapest  Amazon did not have the 11700k listed at all in AUS.

So you was saying?


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 20, 2021)

Melvis said:


> Ok Sure
> 
> Intel Build:
> 11700K $649
> ...


In USD ... feel free to add a case, psu, gpu & SSD to this build.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157976
ASRock B560 Steel Legend $129.99

_Expect this cpu to show up on Newegg any day now._

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007671 601361546
Intel Core i7-11700F Rocket Lake _($350 if I had to guess)_

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-RR-212S-20PK-R1-Contact-Silencio/dp/B07H25DYM3/
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Black Edition CPU Air Cooler $39.99









						G.SKILL Aegis 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Memory Kit Model F4-3200C16D-16GIS - Newegg.com
					

Buy G.SKILL Aegis 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Memory Kit Model F4-3200C16D-16GIS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				



G.SKILL Aegis 16GB (2 x 8GB)  DDR4 3200 CL16 Intel XMP 2.0 $79.99

*Total: $600*









						Intel Core i7-10700 vs Core i7-10700K Review: Is 65W Comet Lake an Option?
					






					www.anandtech.com
				






			https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5800X-16-Thread-Processor/dp/B0815XFSGK/
		

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X $449

btw what cpu cooler would you recommend for that 5800X?


----------



## Mussels (Mar 20, 2021)

5800x runs fine on a 120mm air cooler.

It's the densest CPU ever made, so it puts out a low amount of heat to a tiny area, making it hard to read low temps from.

That chip can run 90C at 100W, where an intel can run 50C at 300W just because the heat is spread out more on the intel - and it means NOTHING because the chips is designed to run at that heat, long term.


----------



## Melvis (Mar 20, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> In USD ... feel free to add a case, psu, gpu & SSD to this build.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157976
> ASRock B560 Steel Legend $129.99
> ...



Naaa im good I proved ya wrong and thats that, and the cooler means nothing as they apparently both run hot so get the same cooler for both, in the end its the same result AND I didnt even mention that you can upgrade your CPU even more on the AMD platform where you cant on the intel, its just a better socket period. Move along


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 20, 2021)

Melvis said:


> *Naaa im good I proved ya wrong and thats that*, and the cooler means nothing as they apparently both run hot so get the same cooler for both, in the end its the same result AND I didnt even mention that you can upgrade your CPU even more on the AMD platform where you cant on the intel, its just a better socket period. Move along


I'm guessing that has a different meaning in Oz.  I posted a board, cpu, cooler and RAM for $600 USD that will go head to head with the 5800X in regards to gaming.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 20, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> that will go head to head with the 5800X in regards to gaming.


Uh, no, not even close. If you're going to limit your criteria to gaming only then the GPU is the bottleneck. Reduce the resolution and you can see how the CPUs stack up without that limitation.

Unless you've been living under a rock for two weeks, you'll have seen the Anandtech review, right?
Here's one of the many game tests. There are other tests where the 5800X has an even sillier lead over Rocket Lake, but I chose BL3 because it's a popular engine used by so many games (Unreal).






5800X running 20% faster than an 11700K, and that's giving the 11700K the best chance possible with premium motherboard, RAM, and a monstrous 173CFM fan on a huge solid-copper Thermalright heatsink that utterly dwarfs cooling performance of most other things by virtue of being hideously loud and not something you'll realistically want to be in the same room as. Fans like that are horrible even in the datacenter when I put earplugs in and then ear defenders _as well_. Trust me, that 11700K had an unfair advantage over the 5800X which would perform almost identically under a quiet, affordable air cooler.

*REPEAT AFTER ME:*
"Gaming needs a good GPU. The CPU doesn't matter AT ALL as long as it's fast enough to feed that GPU"

Any Zen3 or 9th/10th/11th gen intel with >8T is going to be good enough to get the majority of the performance out of a sub-$1000 graphics card. My personal opinion is that the less heat and power a CPU is dumping into a system, the more thermal headroom there is for a GPU to do its boosting, ergo *the best CPU for gaming is the lowest-power one that can keep up with the graphics card.* Intel disqualified themselves from that specific category several generations ago....


----------



## Mussels (Mar 20, 2021)

*the best CPU for gaming is the lowest-power one that can keep up with the graphics card*​personal preference: totally agreed. 5800x may run hot, but once you spread that heat out into a cooler theres not much to actually dissipate.

Why_me: i feel like you're running on half the info, or you trusted X advice and you're not able to see contradicting information.


If i was gaming at 4K on my 3090, i wouldnt see any FPS difference from my 2700x to my 3700x to my 5800x to any intel chip, because i'd be GPU Limited.
The lower resolution (or settings) i go, the higher the max FPS and the more the CPU matters.

The only exception is certain badly coded games, and they're getting much more rare these days.


When you go high refresh rate gaming (such as a 3090 at lower res) the CPU matters to see how high your max FPS can get - see the borderlands 3 screenshot above at 360p... with the GPU not being a limit, you can see how far each CPU can actually push the frape rates. 120FPS enough for you? then a 4750G is enough. wanna max that 165Hz display? looks like a 9900KS or above is needed

Wanna run a 240Hz display, while using half the power? Time to get that 5800x, because it kinda stomps for gaming. I know it. Chrispy knows it. Anandtech knows it. Techpowerup knows it.

For whatever reason you're stuck with some flawed logic and info, so i'ma give you a TL;DR

1. GPU matters the most for gaming
2. the CPU then feeds the GPU, boosting your max FPS (and therefore the average)
3. Once you have your minimum FPS you're happy with, you can target the CPU you need...see that graph above.
4. If you're gunna make budget builds and arguments, pick a res and refresh rate first. You dont need a 5800x or 11700k for 60FPS at any resolution.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 20, 2021)

Mussels said:


> If i was gaming at 4K on my 3090, i wouldnt see any FPS difference from my 2700x to my 3700x to my 5800x to any intel chip, because i'd be *G*PU Limited.


FTFY. 
Typo I'm sure as it's one I make more often than I care to admit.


----------



## PapaTaipei (Mar 20, 2021)

Intel going backward since 2010. What a bunch of f.ers. they literally single handedly are slowing technological progress.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 21, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> FTFY.
> Typo I'm sure as it's one I make more often than I care to admit.


yes, that was a typo (and an important one) - fixed


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> *the best CPU for gaming is the lowest-power one that can keep up with the graphics card*​personal preference: totally agreed. 5800x may run hot, but once you spread that heat out into a cooler theres not much to actually dissipate.
> 
> Why_me: i feel like you're running on half the info, or you trusted X advice and you're not able to see contradicting information.
> 
> ...


The 5800X is getting close to $500 ($490 @Newegg) on US sites whereas the i7 11700F should come in at $350 on Newegg.  Pair that up with a B560 board and you have more money to put towards a gpu.


----------



## Mussels (Mar 22, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> The 5800X is getting close to $500 ($490 @Newegg) on US sites whereas the i7 11700F should come in at $350 on Newegg.  Pair that up with a B560 board and you have more money to put towards a gpu.



here: pick whatever CPU you want from this list
CPU Benchmarks and Hierarchy 2021: Intel and AMD Processor Rankings and Comparisons | Tom's Hardware

The prices you can argue all day long because prices CHANGE. you can argue non stop all you want about justifying whatever chip you want, and its meaningless to most of us because the prices change constsantly, and different stores, states, and countries all have different pricing

the 5800x is the literal top of the pile for gaming. Oh no its more expensive... yeah. it's 1st place. Go get a 5600x for 3FPS less and save that money and the silly arguments.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> here: pick whatever CPU you want from this list
> CPU Benchmarks and Hierarchy 2021: Intel and AMD Processor Rankings and Comparisons | Tom's Hardware
> 
> The prices you can argue all day long because prices CHANGE. you can argue non stop all you want about justifying whatever chip you want, and its meaningless to most of us because the prices change constsantly, and different stores, states, and countries all have different pricing
> ...


The i7 has two more cores than the 5600X which is nice if you're gaming and running programs such as Teamspeak or Discord in the background.


----------



## R0H1T (Mar 22, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Pair that up with a B560 board and you have more money to put towards a gpu.


Or how about instead of overspending on a GPU, right now, just wait for prices to cool off & then buy a cheaper 5800x & much cheaper GPU 

I'd rather not pay scalper prices for anything that goes into a PC right now, it just encourages them to do more of it in the future!


----------



## Mussels (Mar 22, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> The i7 has two more cores than the 5600X which is nice if you're gaming and running programs such as Teamspeak or Discord in the background.


not when every single core is faster by so much that the total power is higher

thats a real stretch to name two super light resource programs as if they'll take a core each... they might take 1% of one core


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 22, 2021)

Mussels said:


> not when every single core is faster by so much that the total power is higher
> 
> thats a real stretch to name two super light resource programs as if they'll take a core each... they might take 1% of one core


Fact of the matter is more games are using more cores these days. An example is CoD and BF which both utilize 6 cores which means more cpu usage.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 22, 2021)

Dude, you're just ignoring all of the evidence posted about games being limited by a GPU. Why are you re-posting evidence that either shows you don't even _understand_ that, or that you're willingly ignoring facts?

It reminds me of this Citroen advert:





"Travellling flat out at the GPU's limit of 178fps, the 11700F will easily overtake a 5600X producing only 176fps."


----------



## Makaveli (Mar 22, 2021)

You guys are still entertaining this guy and his trolling.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 22, 2021)

Makaveli said:


> You guys are still entertaining this guy and his trolling.


I'm WFH during COVID lockdown. Feeding the trolls is a mild distraction from the pain of having to stare at the empty park outside bathed in sunshine whilst the law insists on me working from home and not going outside for any non-essential reason.


----------



## Makaveli (Mar 22, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> I'm WFH during COVID lockdown. Feeding the trolls is a mild distraction from the pain of having to stare at the empty park outside bathed in sunshine whilst the law insists on me working from home and not going outside for any non-essential reason.


 I'm WFH also for the last year, its been a long time thankfully spring is coming and its sunny. I can go outside plan to go for a walk at lunch to get some air.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 22, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> Dude, you're just ignoring all of the evidence posted about games being limited by a GPU. Why are you re-posting evidence that either shows you don't even _understand_ that, or that you're willingly ignoring facts?
> 
> It reminds me of this Citroen advert:
> 
> ...


So you're telling me the 6 core 5600X is the better option for a gaming build eh.  If there's anyone in here trolling it isn't me.  

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119384 
ASUS PRIME B560-PLUS $119.99 

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i7-10700f-core-i7-10th-gen/p/N82E16819D118131 
Intel Core i7-10700F $279.99

https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820164198 
Crucial Ballistix 3200 MHz DDR4 DRAM Desktop Memory Kit 16GB (8GBx2) CL16 $79.99


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 22, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> So you're telling me the 6 core 5600X is the better option for a gaming build eh.  If there's anyone in here trolling it isn't me.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119384
> ASUS PRIME B560-PLUS $119.99
> ...


You're _still _completely missing the point:
*THE CPU DOESN'T MATTER* *FOR GAMING*
(within reason - as long as its capable of keeping up with a GPU, having more cores or more MHz does not make your gaming better in any significant way).

The better option* for a gaming build *is the one that leaves you more budget for *a better GPU*. That's all there is to it, the GPU is the single most important part of a PC's gaming performance. I don't personally think a quad core i3 is a good idea in 2021 but you can see from the graphs_ you_ just posted that it's only about 5% slower than CPUs costing 4x as much.

A $600 graphics card and a $200 CPU will be a vastly better gaming choice than a $200 graphics card and a $600 CPU. If you don't agree with that statement then I have to conclude that you have cognitive problems far more serious than anyone here realised and you have my sincere condolences.

If you want to justify a more expensive CPU for non-gaming purposes, that's absolutely fine. I have a 3900X for crunching large datasets and I absolutely can justify the cost of it over the R5 3600 it replaced. However, doubling the cost/performance/core-count of my CPU made absolutely zero difference to my gaming. I was 100% GPU bottlenecked, as expected. As is widely-accepted by every independent reviewer on the web, as well as AMD and NVIDIA themselves; Your GPU dictates your gaming performance and your CPU will have no impact unless it is such a bad/old CPU that it becomes a bigger bottleneck than the GPU.

Oh hey, talk about GPU bottlenecks, LTT to the rescue with another ELI5:


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 22, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> You're _still _completely missing the point:
> *THE CPU DOESN'T MATTER* *FOR GAMING*
> (within reason - as long as its capable of keeping up with a GPU, having more cores or more MHz does not make your gaming better in any significant way).
> 
> ...


Ya the cpu does matter to a degree or more people would be purchasing cheap i3 cpu's for their gaming builds.   Try playing MS Flight Simulator on a dual core.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 22, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Ya the cpu does matter to a degree or more people would be purchasing cheap i3 cpu's for their gaming builds.   Try playing MS Flight Simulator on a dual core.


i3's are now 4C/8T.

As for dual core, that's clearly not "within reason" for serious gaming, nor can it keep up with a modern GPU, so I'm not sure why you brought it up, other than to deflect.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 22, 2021)

My GPU be like 99% while my 3900X be like 25%.


----------



## goodeedidid (Mar 22, 2021)

Anybody even excited by this boring generic Intel release.. more excited about the new upcoming Apple silicons than this.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 22, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> i3's are now 4C/8T.
> 
> As for dual core, that's clearly not "within reason" for serious gaming, nor can it keep up with a modern GPU, so I'm not sure why you brought it up, other than to deflect.


Let's cut the crap shall we.   Anyone who thinks the 5600X is a better option for the money vs the i7 10700F in regards to gaming needs to get a reality check.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Mar 22, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Let's cut the crap shall we.   Anyone who thinks the 5600X is a better option for the money vs the i7 10700F in regards to gaming needs to get a reality check.


You're still missing the point, and now I'm not even sure what side you're arguing now. You seem to be fixated on the 5600X, and I'm not sure why. Are you confusing me with Mussels? If you're actually trying to make a strawman argument you're not doing a very good job!

In case you've missed it, all I've said to you for the last several posts is that your CPU doesn't matter. Get the cheapest one that doesn't bottleneck your GPU. If you want to dump excess cash into a CPU for other non-gaming reasons then that's also fine, but don't_ pretend _it's for gaming. Even with a 360Hz monitor, the difference between an i5-10400 and an i9-11900K is going to be pretty slim as most games will still be bottlenecked on the GPU at 1080p and above. The fact a Zen3 is faster than any Intel by a good 20-30% is irrelevant because you'll never see that difference in a real game at a real resolution with a real graphics card.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 22, 2021)

Chrispy_ said:


> real graphics card.


Wait, they're real?


----------



## Mussels (Mar 22, 2021)

Yeah... i'm giving up. Why_me is either trolling, or just deluded.

Peace and out.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Mar 22, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Back in the day ..  12 - 15 years ago if I had to guess, I used to post builds on a site called Tomshardware.  I didn't become prejudiced until I started to get fed up with the AMD *fanbois* on there .. and it wasn't only there but another site called Guru3d.  Ever since AMD got the drop on Intel they've become only worse.



I suggest you take a good long look in the mirror, then. Because if your delusional posts have stated anything, it's that you're an Intel fanboy. Worse than that, you're a DELUSIONAL Intel fanboy. Like, you can't even accept the facts that numerous people here have blatantly stated -- multiple times -- and see the writing on the damn wall! I mean shit, there are people here who prefer Intel over AMD, sure, but they actually have a lick of sense and admit that Intel has been releasing crap lately. You don't see them living in a fantasy world like you clearly are.



Why_Me said:


> Meanwhile there's a reason Intel puts out locked and unlocked cpu's.  Unlocked ones are for the small minority who don't mind paying more for cooling along with a board with heftier VRM's for that small gain it brings. The rest of us look at the benchmarks along with the savings and thank ourselves for going with the locked cpu.



Or, ya know, rather than this locked/unlocked BS, if Intel really gave two shits about the "poor" PC gamer, they'd be more like Ryzen (or hell, going even further back, the FX series) and have fully unlocked chips up and down the stack, thereby giving the end user the freedom to OC the chip or simply leave it stock - say the user is wanting to learn about OCing and wants to try overclocking -- they can do that on the Ryzen, without the need for a K series SKU from Intel or a Z series board (within reason of course. Don't want to be OCing an R9 level CPU on a B450 or gods forbid an A520, lol).



Why_Me said:


> Let's cut the crap shall we.   Anyone who thinks the 5600X is a better option for the money vs the i7 10700F in regards to gaming needs to get a reality check.



Yes, let's cut the crap. It's YOU that needs the reality check.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 23, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> I suggest you take a good long look in the mirror, then. Because if your delusional posts have stated anything, it's that you're an Intel fanboy. Worse than that, you're a DELUSIONAL Intel fanboy. Like, you can't even accept the facts that numerous people here have blatantly stated -- multiple times -- and see the writing on the damn wall! I mean shit, there are people here who prefer Intel over AMD, sure, but they actually have a lick of sense and admit that Intel has been releasing crap lately. You don't see them living in a fantasy world like you clearly are.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I posted links along with benchmarks and prices.  I realize it might be difficult for some to swallow but the fact of the matter is Intel is the better deal atm in regards to gaming builds.  As far as locked cpu's vs unlocked .. nobody has a gun held to their head forcing them to choose one over the other.  Like I've posted before, OC as far as Intel builds are concerned is going the way of the manual transmission.  It's more of a hobbyist thing anymore.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Mar 23, 2021)

Not sure if anyone's posted this


----------



## Caring1 (Mar 23, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Not sure if anyone's posted this


Twice now, that I have seen


----------



## Super XP (Mar 23, 2021)

Should I mention this again? Intel is in Big Trouble? This is an opportunity for AMD once again to plough into the market place and gain lots more market share as they deserve.
Reward those that step up with real tech innovations and organic improvements.

And to all the So Called Intel Fanboys, AMD went through this long phase with its Bulldozer Design, all while building ZEN in the backend quietly. Competition is a good thing and its great to see a much smaller AMD company pounding in the flesh of a much larger Intel company, that hasn't played very nice for 25+ years now.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Mar 23, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Twice now, that I have seen



Working so didn't have time to check.... watched it on my lunch found it interesting/disappointing

Mildly impressed by what intel is getting out of 14nm but beyond that hopefully alderlake is good.


----------



## mouacyk (Mar 23, 2021)

4th iteration of 14nm producing 8-cores/16-threads that overclocks to 5.2GHz/5.3GHz on Coffee Lake was awesome.  That was a worthwhile ROI on the node.  But 5th and 6th iterations without any significant returns -- 19% IPC uplift in specific scenarios and more like 1-5% IPC in general use?  That's just stale business -- it's a thing.  If only they would have poured their billions into going beyond 14nm, the IPC ROI would have been closer to 75-100% at 7nm.


----------



## INSTG8R (Mar 23, 2021)

Sorry for the Tom’s but good chart.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 23, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Sorry for the Tom’s but good chart.
> View attachment 193527


*pats 3900X* it's okay, you're good enough


----------



## INSTG8R (Mar 23, 2021)

Alexa said:


> *pats 3900X* it's okay, you're good enough


Liked seeing my 5600X punching hard near the top


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 23, 2021)

I'll be holding onto my baby until DDR5 matures lol


----------



## INSTG8R (Mar 23, 2021)

Alexa said:


> I'll be holding onto my baby until DDR5 matures lol


Well I built this rig with Zen 3 as my "endgame" and had a 3700X as a "placeholder" actually I was only gonna grab a 3600X but they weren't in stock. My rig is just missing my RNDA2 card and it's finished and I will join you waiting for AM5/DDR5 or whatever ends up being the next "leap"
I mean my previous rig was a 4790K I ran from shortly after it was released until I to start building this one late last summer. I will be satisfied with it for at least a  few years if need be.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 23, 2021)

Super XP said:


> Should I mention this again? Intel is in Big Trouble? This is an opportunity for AMD once again to plough into the market place and gain lots more market share as they deserve.
> Reward those that step up with real tech innovations and organic improvements.
> 
> And to all the So Called Intel Fanboys, AMD went through this long phase with its Bulldozer Design, all while building ZEN in the backend quietly. Competition is a good thing and its great to see a much smaller AMD company pounding in the flesh of a much larger Intel company, that hasn't played very nice for 25+ years now.


As far as gaming builds go ...

Budget build: i5 10400F _($150 @ Amazon)_ w/3200Mhz RAM + B560 board
Mid range build: i7 10700F _($269 @ Amazon)_ w/3200Mhz RAM + B560 board
High end build: Ryzen 7 5800X _($450 @ Amazon)_ w/3600Mhz RAM + 570 board

and officially out of the running ...

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-3600-12-Thread-Processor/dp/B07STGGQ18 
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 $226.99


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Mar 23, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> As far as gaming builds go ...
> 
> Budget build: i5 10400F _($150 @ Amazon)_ w/3200Mhz RAM + B560 board
> Mid range build: i7 10700F _($269 @ Amazon)_ w/3200Mhz RAM + B560 board
> ...


Neither of the intel cpus are even in the top 20 on amazon so the majority of buyers disagree






						Amazon Best Sellers: Best Computer CPU Processors
					

Discover the best Computer CPU Processors in Best Sellers.  Find the top 100 most popular items in Amazon Computers & Accessories Best Sellers.



					www.amazon.com
				





On newegg 18th is a little better I guess









						Best Selling Processors - Desktops | Newegg.com
					

Find the best-selling Processors - Desktops on Newegg.com. Browse through the top 100 items on our website.




					www.newegg.com


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 23, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Neither if the intel cpus are even in the top 20 on amazon so the majority of buyers disagree
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So what would be your choice(s) for budget build, mid range build and high end build RE gaming builds?


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Mar 23, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> So what would be your choice(s) for budget build, mid range build and high end build RE gaming builds?



The best CPU you can afford is what's best.... Without sacrificing your gpu's budget. I buy cpu just for fun to test them out so I'm not the best person to ask lol.. Although I have plenty of experience with 10th gen intel and Ryzen 3000/5000 I personally wouldn't use anything less than my 5800X for myself and plan on swapping it for a 5950X 

one person might go with the R5 3600 at $199 over a 10400F $150 for the superior upgrade path.... Another might need to budget that 50 for an SSD/better PSU etc

Personally the best CPU right now to buy is the 10600k once tweaked it offers 10900k gaming performance in most games and can offer much better productivity performance than the 10400 anyone that needs anything better than that can easily figure out what cpu is best for them.  Translates to up to 20% better gaming performance and up to 30% better productivity performance vs the 10400 once tweaked.

Although being real the best value for a gaming system right now is either prebuilt or consoles anyone looking to game in 2021 should ignore the diy market unless you already have a gpu. At a min people should be waiting for lower tier rocket lake reviews for any final judgment although after seeing the 11700k review I'm not overly optimistic a 4-4.4ghz all core rocket lake chip is going to be worth it over a 5ghz 10600k which isn't that hard to cool for gaming.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 23, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> The best CPU you can afford is what's best.... Without sacrificing your gpu's budget. I buy cpu just for fun to test them out so I'm not the best person to ask lol.. Although I have plenty of experience with 10th gen intel and Ryzen 3000/5000 I personally wouldn't use anything less than my 5800X for myself and plan on swapping it for a 5950X
> 
> one person might go with the R5 3600 at $199 over a 10400F $150 for the superior upgrade path.... Another might need to budget that 50 for an SSD/better PSU etc
> 
> ...


It's been almost a month since I've seen the 3600 go for as low as $200.  It's sitting at $219 on Newegg atm.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Mar 23, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> It's been almost a month since I've seen the 3600 go for as low as $200.  It's sitting at $219 on Newegg atm.



Yes, but me and many others can stills get them at our local microcenters for 199..... people should be looking at the 10600k anyway.


----------



## mouacyk (Mar 23, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> Yes, but me and many others can stills get them at our local microcenters for 199..... people should be looking at the 10600k anyway.


PCI-E 3.0 and dead platform?


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 23, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> PCI-E 3.0 and dead platform?


DDR5 is right around the corner which means new boards, cpu's and RAM.  With that said it's going to be a few years imo before the prices of DDR5 are reasonable.  Seeing how a lot of gamers rebuild every 4 - 5 years on average if I had to guess, no reason not to go with comet lake or rocket lake for the time being if someone is needing a new build.


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Mar 23, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> PCI-E 3.0 and dead platform?



Gen 3 is fine for both storage and gpu at the mid to low end for at least another generation of gpu....... Anyone struggling to fit a 200-300 CPU in their budget doesn't really care about 500+ gpus and 200+ SSD. It's not like anyone building a system is going to be able to get a decent gpu for another year anyway and if you don't currently have one the Ryzen chips and F Class intel chips are just paperweights.


----------



## INSTG8R (Mar 23, 2021)

mouacyk said:


> PCI-E 3.0 and dead platform?


There’s still almost no scenario where it’s fully saturated...but carry on...


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Mar 23, 2021)

oxrufiioxo said:


> The best CPU you can afford is what's best.... Without sacrificing your gpu's budget. I buy cpu just for fun to test them out so I'm not the best person to ask lol.. Although I have plenty of experience with 10th gen intel and Ryzen 3000/5000 I personally wouldn't use anything less than my 5800X for myself and plan on swapping it for a 5950X
> 
> *one person might go with the R5 3600 at $199 over a 10400F $150 for the superior upgrade path....* Another might need to budget that 50 for an SSD/better PSU etc


Me to a T lol  

Also, @Why_Me, I got my R5 3600 from Newegg for $200. They frequently offer $5 off promo codes for them.


----------



## Tom Sunday (Mar 24, 2021)

MxPhenom 216 said:


> You can also get a 11700k for $400...Another 8/16 core unlocked chip...Won't miss anything, but a couple more GHz boost...


Yes you are correct and it will be a better buy. Let's see what Intel has to say in their next earnings call onThursday, April 22, 2021 in front of their institutional investors. With the Alder Lake product just ahead many see little or no headwinds for Intel. Maybe I will put my 2020 AMD stock 'windfall' into Intel this time and wait for their fourth quarter? Amazing how the world turns. But we all know that Wall Street has no memory of its former darlings and cash is king.


----------



## Super XP (Mar 24, 2021)

INSTG8R said:


> Well I built this rig with Zen 3 as my "endgame" and had a 3700X as a "placeholder" actually I was only gonna grab a 3600X but they weren't in stock. My rig is just missing my RNDA2 card and it's finished and I will join you waiting for AM5/DDR5 or whatever ends up being the next "leap"
> I mean my previous rig was a 4790K I ran from shortly after it was released until I to start building this one late last summer. I will be satisfied with it for at least a  few years if need be.


Personally I am going to skip the AM5|DDR5's 1st through 2nd or 3rd generation, because the 1st is always usually not perfect. 
For Example:
OK Bulldozer > Better Piledriver
OK ZEN > Better ZEN+ or A lot Better ZEN2

I can see this happening again and again as seen in the past. Which tells me I will hold onto my future ZEN3 gaming rig for another 3-4 years if not more.


----------



## INSTG8R (Mar 24, 2021)

Super XP said:


> Personally I am going to skip the AM5|DDR5's 1st through 2nd or 3rd generation, because the 1st is always usually not perfect.
> For Example:
> OK Bulldozer > Better Piledriver
> OK ZEN > Better ZEN+ or A lot Better ZEN2
> ...


Yeah I mean if it “keeps up”performance wise like my 4790K did I will run.it until it doesn’t and maybe a GPU upgrade after a few years. My 4790K had a Fury a Vega and my current 5700XT. Those upgrades were significant performance boosts that kept up with increasing GFX requirements.


----------



## HenrySomeone (Mar 25, 2021)

coozie78 said:


> Post one that can match my 3900X for CPU rendering, pal.
> We don't all just play games!
> 
> And, amazingly, ON TOPIC: Not impressed, not at all, and that Anandtech  review others have mentioned isn't getting me excited either.
> The way things are going my current 3900X/1080Ti is going to have to keep going for MUCH longer.


Ahhh, the holy grail of AMD aficionados since time immemorial - cpu rendering! Well, let's look at the whole picture:
10900f (with max turbo) is only slightly slower in rendering than 3900X








and yes, it does consume about 40W more doing it (or a lot less at stock and while it is in that case notably slower, it is also just as energy efficient as the Ryzen)







however, here's the kicker - it's currently over 180 $ cheaper!

Intel Core i9-10900F 2.8 GHz LGA 1200 BX8070110900F Desktop Processor - Newegg.com
AMD RYZEN 9 3900X 12-Core 3.8 GHz (4.6 GHz Max Boost) Socket AM4 105W 100-100000023BOX Desktop Processor - Newegg.com

How's that "fabled" AMD price/performance working out for you now, huh pal?


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 25, 2021)

HenrySomeone said:


> Ahhh, the holy grail of AMD aficionados since time immemorial - cpu rendering! Well, let's look at the whole picture:
> 10900f (with max turbo) is only slightly slower in rendering than 3900X
> 
> 
> ...


Why did you quote me? I didn't write that.

I'm also quite not interested in useless fanboy debates.


----------



## HenrySomeone (Mar 25, 2021)

Hmmm, weird - the quoted text is correct, yet not attributed to its owner, but instead to you for some reason. There seems to be some shenanigans going on; let me see if I can rectify that...
There we go - properly attributed to its biased author now.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 25, 2021)

After being listed on UK sites for over a week, the i5 11400F has finally hit America.  Solid price although I expect it to be listed on Newegg for even cheaper.  Intel showing once again it cares about gamers. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1621133-REG/intel_bx8070811400f_core_i5_11400f_2_6_ghz.html 
Intel Core i5-11400F $167.95


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 25, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> After being listed on UK sites for over a week, the i5 11400F has finally hit America.  Solid price although I expect it to be listed on Newegg for even cheaper.  Intel showing once again it cares about gamers.
> 
> https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1621133-REG/intel_bx8070811400f_core_i5_11400f_2_6_ghz.html
> Intel Core i5-11400F $167.95


This post could've been good if you left out that last sentence


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 25, 2021)

Alexa said:


> This post could've been good if you left out that last sentence


The 3600 is going for $220 in the US atm.  If only AMD cared about us poors.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 25, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> The 3600 is going for $220 in the US atm.  If only AMD cared about us poors.


Companies don't care about you unless you hold shares.


----------



## HenrySomeone (Mar 25, 2021)

Yup, there is currently absolutely zero dilemma who to go with as far as cpus are concerned in the budget - midrange class...


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 25, 2021)

HenrySomeone said:


> Yup, there is currently absolutely zero dilemma who to go with as far as cpus are concerned in the budget - midrange class...


Of course, the company which lowered their prices, in this case Intel. When Intel comes back, AMD will lower prices once again. Then when AMD comes back... yawn.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 25, 2021)

Alexa said:


> Of course, the company which lowered their prices, in this case Intel. When Intel comes back, AMD will lower prices once again. Then when AMD comes back... yawn.


During this time of global pandemic only one cpu manufacture came through for us poors while the other cpu manufacturer actually raised their prices.


----------



## heflys20 (Mar 25, 2021)

Wow. The trolling is strong in this thread. Pretty hilarious.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 25, 2021)

heflys20 said:


> Wow. The trolling is strong in this thread. Pretty hilarious.


I have to admit I'm a bit shocked at all the contempt shown on here for a company that allows for decent budget minded gaming builds. I imagine those same posters feasting on caviar, lobster and champagne while gaming with their 5800X and $250+ 570 boards.


----------



## heflys20 (Mar 25, 2021)

That's actually ironic, since someone on here was telling me how buying the top gaming cpu (which was Intel at the time) was one of the necessary components to ensuring that their computer was the equivalent of a "Bugatti." It was indicated that I was a pleb by comparison for realizing it was overpriced mediocrity. I digress though. I believe it was outperformed by Amd not even a year later. I may be wrong though. I digress, though.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Mar 26, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> I have to admit I'm a bit shocked at all the contempt shown on here for a company that allows for decent budget minded gaming builds. *I imagine those same posters feasting on caviar, lobster and champagne while gaming with their 5800X and $250+ 570 boards.*



You can fuck off with that shit, first off. Take a good look at my system specs -- does that sound like I'm "feasting on caviar, lobster and champagne" to you?! I've always had to depend on others due to my visual impairment, and as such, I've never been able to earn my own income. Even trying to get SSI is damn near impossible (been trying for YEARS). So the ONLY reason I'm able to have the system that I have is thanks in part to my dad (reused a good chunk of the parts he'd bought for my original 1600 build) as well as some of the money I got from (reluctantly) letting go of his prized Saleen S281 Mustang, two years after he passed away! 

You touched a nerve with that comment, and a tender one at that. So if I sound angry, it's because I am. Angry and hurt!


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 26, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> You can fuck off with that shit, first off. Take a good look at my system specs -- does that sound like I'm "feasting on caviar, lobster and champagne" to you?! I've always had to depend on others due to my visual impairment, and as such, I've never been able to earn my own income. Even trying to get SSI is damn near impossible (been trying for YEARS). So the ONLY reason I'm able to have the system that I have is thanks in part to my dad (reused a good chunk of the parts he'd bought for my original 1600 build) as well as some of the money I got from (reluctantly) letting go of his prized Saleen S281 Mustang, two years after he passed away!
> 
> You touched a nerve with that comment, and a tender one at that. So if I sound angry, it's because I am. Angry and hurt!


Those aren't bad specs but that build could have been done a heck of a lot cheaper.  Granted prices have changed but that cpu cooler you have goes for $120 on newegg and that asrock board is listed for $200.  That's $320 in just the board and cpu cooler alone.


----------



## Gmr_Chick (Mar 26, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> *Those aren't bad specs but that build could have been done a heck of a lot cheaper. * Granted prices have changed but that *cpu cooler you have goes for $120 on newegg and that asrock board is listed for $200. * That's $320 in just the board and cpu cooler alone.



The fuck would you know?! 

The AIO was bought for the heater 10700K I lost interest in (and later sold on Ebay). And I bought the board used from Amazon Warehouse for $150.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 26, 2021)

Gmr_Chick said:


> The fuck would you know?!
> 
> The AIO was bought for the heater 10700K I lost interest in (and later sold on Ebay). And I bought the board used from Amazon Warehouse for $150.


Not a fan of the unlocked Intel cpu's tbh.  More money for the board & cooling for X amount of FPS hence the reason I push the 10700F and 10400F in builds I do on another site .. although it would be nice to see Intel come out with a i5 11600F.


----------



## Caring1 (Mar 26, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Not a fan of the unlocked Intel cpu's tbh.  More money for the board & cooling for X amount of FPS hence the reason I push the 10700F and 10400F in builds I do on another site .. although it would be nice to see Intel come out with a i5 11600F.


Odd way to say sorry when you generalise and upset someone.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 26, 2021)

Caring1 said:


> Odd way to say sorry when you generalise and upset someone.


Sorry for what?


----------



## Tom Sunday (Mar 26, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> 6The 3600 is going for $220 in the US atm.  If only AMD cared about us poors.


Your point is well taken. I am the man on the street and cash is always tight. At least when browsing here on a regular basis I can dream about having deep pockets and delighting in "what if" being rich! Surely there are many here like me living vicariously and then some?


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 26, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> I have to admit I'm a bit shocked at all the contempt shown on here for a company that allows for decent budget minded gaming builds. I imagine those same posters feasting on caviar, lobster and champagne while gaming with their 5800X and $250+ 570 boards.


Lmao what the fuck. Yes I own a yacht because I have a $400 CPU...

Aren't you done trolling yet? Go back to Tom's.


----------



## Why_Me (Mar 26, 2021)

Alexa said:


> Lmao what the fuck. Yes I own a yacht because I have a $400 CPU...
> 
> Aren't you done trolling yet? Go back to Tom's.


Cool your Hunnic warrior blood.  Nothing has been posted in this thread that warrants attacks such as that.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 28, 2021)

Why_Me said:


> Not a fan of the unlocked Intel cpu's tbh.  More money for the board & cooling for X amount of FPS hence the reason I push the 10700F and 10400F in builds I do on another site .. although it would be nice to see Intel come out with a i5 11600F.



I still question the use most cite for these new CPUs though.  Gaming - people cite this always.  

Current pricing puts 3070 at around $1300 USD and the 3080 hitting $2000 USD.   To see a difference in gaming between say a 10700 and a 5800X using a game benchmark, you need that 3070 minimum.  To notice it in real life you'll need that $2000 3080.  If you start comparing say a 10900K to a 5800X, now you really need a 3090 to see the difference beyond a rounding error, and that is running near $3000.  

With those prices on new GPUs and word being the prices won't relax for another year there's no reason to buy any new CPU for gaming unless the intention is to shell out thousands for one of those new GPUs.  Only if you have another real-world use case that can utilize the CPU does it make any sense at all.  Most people don't, and would be a lot better off buying a laptop right now if they are on an old rig and need an upgrade.


----------



## RandallFlagg (Mar 29, 2021)

@W1zzard RKL Review(s) coming tomorrow?


----------



## Arc1t3ct (Mar 30, 2021)

RandallFlagg said:


> @W1zzard RKL Review(s) coming tomorrow?



Can't wait!! I expect the 11900K to be on par or slightly faster than the 5900X. Not bad considering it has 4 fewer threads...


----------



## HenrySomeone (Mar 30, 2021)

A couple tests that are out already show it to be a solid 5-10% faster in games, just around where I was expecting it to land and enough to be the undisputed 8 core champion once again.


----------



## Deleted member 205776 (Mar 30, 2021)

I'd rather buy a 11700K. Not paying that price for an 8 core.


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## HenrySomeone (Mar 30, 2021)

Not a great MSRP, no, but if the i7 really doesn't OC all that well (as mentioned by a couple of the early reviewers like Gamers Nexus), it might be worth it for a really high end gaming build, since if you have the $1.5k or so for the graphics card, another $100 for a top of the line cpu shouldn't be a problem.


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