# 660p vs 860 Evo



## NumberCruncher (Jul 22, 2019)

Is there any reason to purchase 860 Evo @$129 when the 660p is $95?


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## dgianstefani (Jul 22, 2019)

The 860 evo is better. What you pay is what you get.


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## oxrufiioxo (Jul 22, 2019)

NumberCruncher said:


> Is there any reason to purchase 860 Evo @$129 when the 660p is $95?



I would buy the XPG 8200 Pro over either.


The Intel drive is pretty good at reads but the Samsung drive is better at writes especially large ones.


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## FreedomEclipse (Jul 22, 2019)

Not really.

The main difference between the two are the NAND chips used. The Evo uses 3-layer or 'triple layer' TLC while the 660p uses Quad layer QLC - Both lifespans are about the same but the samsung is a bit faster.

it really depends what you want to do with the drive. if you just want to put games on it. the 660p will do fine.


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## londiste (Jul 22, 2019)

QLC lifespan is considerably lower.
660p write speeds will tank horribly once you exhaust its write cache (10% of free space, if I remember correctly).

860 EVO is a SATA drive even if M.2 form factor. This means read-write speeds are capped at 520-550MB/s.
660p is an NVMe drive, its maximum speeds, at least for reads and writes in short bursts can be considerably higher.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 22, 2019)

660p is a great disk for an OS Drive with some standard applications on top. (128GB or so)

860 is a great disk for large chunks of data, and working with them.

The relative price unfortunately is completely countering those use cases 
Chances of a noticeable (and annoying) difference in performance or durability are likely to be low, though lifespan is one reason for me to pay a little extra. You really do get what you pay for in that sense, and storage for most is about reliability. That is why its a great OS drive. Lots and lots of reads, small bits and bobs, you're not writing a drive's worth of stuff on there daily - perfect for QLC.


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## londiste (Jul 22, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> 660p is a great disk for an OS Drive.
> 860 is a great disk for large chunks of data, and working with them.
> The relative price unfortunately is completely countering those use cases


I completely disagree. Until we get some real data on how long QLC drives last, I would use one as a data drive rather than system drive. System drive usually implies a more constant and larger read-write load.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 22, 2019)

londiste said:


> I completely disagree. Until we get some real data on how long QLC drives last, I would use one as a data drive rather than system drive. System drive usually implies a more constant and larger read-write load.



System drive implies you don't store critical data on it. That was my approach for that. I'll leave the endurance testing to others...

Components die, anyway, that 860 will too, so I doubt there is a real financial advantage long term.


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## NumberCruncher (Jul 22, 2019)

Thanks for the lively discussion. This will be used as the only drive, with diligent backup.


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## Vayra86 (Jul 22, 2019)

NumberCruncher said:


> Thanks for the lively discussion. This will be used as the only drive, with diligent backup.



Would certainly opt for the 860 personally. Part of that is our very limited (collective) experience with QLC. If/when/how it fails etc. You will do a lot of read/write on a single disk for a system, often multiple tasks together, so the speed remaining consistent is also useful.


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## kapone32 (Jul 22, 2019)

The Intel 1660P is an academic choice vs any SSD. Even though it uses QLC NAND it has a 5 year warranty. Where the 1660P shines though is in gaming. There is no issue using the 1660P as a boot drive. Samsung does have good utility programs but Intel has about 4 downloads that you can do to improve the speed and longevity of the 1660P. In some cases it is just as fast as the 760P. I have also noticed that it is more consistent at downloads than my Adata SX8200.


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## Zareek (Jul 22, 2019)

This is kind of an apples to oranges comparison. We are comparing SATA TLC to NVMe QLC. My two cents, Samsung drives are insanely reliable. The 860 EVO is no exception. or me personally, I value my data too much to trust it to QLC especially as a boot device. In your case, the sole internal storage device for the machine. If you were just gonna throw some games on it, why not. If I must choose between the two, it's the 860 EVO. You will more than likely barely notice any difference in speed anyway.



kapone32 said:


> The Intel 1660P is an academic choice vs any SSD. Even though it uses QLC NAND it has a 5 year warranty. Where the 1660P shines though is in gaming. There is no issue using the 1660P as a boot drive. Samsung does have good utility programs but Intel has about 4 downloads that you can do to improve the speed and longevity of the 1660P. In some cases it is just as fast as the 760P. I have also noticed that it is more consistent at downloads than my Adata SX8200.


A 5 year warranty is great but if it is the only drive in your PC, a warranty does not boot your machine for a couple of weeks while you do the RMA.


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## londiste (Jul 22, 2019)

For SSDs what you primarily care about when it comes to warranty is TBW (terabytes of writes):
- 660p spec says 200TBW for 1TB model and 400TBW for 2TB model.
- 860EVO spec says 600TBW for 1TB model and 1200TBW for 2GB model.

The flash in 860EVO has been tested and shown to exceed that spec by considerable margin.

660p is not bad by any measure but we simply do not know how that Flash lasts.
When I look at writes in my 3 drives, it currently amounts to around 25TB in a year and my usage isn't very write-heavy.


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## kapone32 (Jul 22, 2019)

Zareek said:


> This is kind of an apples to oranges comparison. We are comparing SATA TLC to NVMe QLC. My two cents, Samsung drives are insanely reliable. The 860 EVO is no exception. or me personally, I value my data too much to trust it to QLC especially as a boot device. In your case, the sole internal storage device for the machine. If you were just gonna throw some games on it, why not. If I must choose between the two, it's the 860 EVO. You will more than likely barely notice any difference in speed anyway.
> 
> We are comparing SATA TLC to NVMe QLC
> 
> ...



Should I add then that it is from Intel? A company that is just as good in reliability as Samsung and has some serious credit in the NVME protocol. Even SSDs will die at some point.


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## bonehead123 (Jul 22, 2019)

Sammy Evo or WD Black 4 sure....no question in my mind, speaking merely from my 5+ years of experiences with all 3 brands

Intel may make good cpu's & other chips etc, but when it comes to SSD's they suk wha wha big time + they is too expensive for what you get..... 

or as someone once said:  "cheap is as cheap does"


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## silentbogo (Jul 22, 2019)

NumberCruncher said:


> Is there any reason to purchase 860 Evo @$129 when the 660p is $95?


Between these two 660p is a no-brainer. You get nearly triple sequential speeds and more than adequate random R/W for less money. 860 Evo is just an overpriced SATA drive with less than impressive by modern standards specs. Tales of Samsung reliability are just that - tales. I've had just as many dead/defective EVOs as any other brand (except older phison-based Kingston and OCZ SSDs).
Plus with 660p you get 5 year warranty, which means Intel is quite sure that their QLC drives won't die before TBW and MTBF is reached. Samsung only gives 3 years on their QVO series and 5 years on Evo/Pro.


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## kapone32 (Jul 22, 2019)

bonehead123 said:


> Sammy Evo or WD Black 4 sure....no question in my mind, speaking merely from my 5+ years of experiences with all 3 brands
> 
> Intel may make good cpu's & other chips etc, but when it comes to SSD's they suk wha wha big time + they is too expensive for what you get.....
> 
> or as someone once said:  "cheap is as cheap does"



That is an interesting statement considering that the Intel 660P 1TB is actually selling cheaper than 1 TB SSDs. 









						Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 2TB PCIe Internal SSD - Newegg.com
					

Buy Intel 660p Series M.2 2280 2TB PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 3D2, QLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDPEKNW020T8X1 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.ca
				












						SAMSUNG 860 EVO Series 2.5" 1TB SATA III V-NAND 3-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-76E1T0B/AM - Newegg.com
					

Buy SAMSUNG 860 EVO Series 2.5" 1TB SATA III V-NAND 3-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-76E1T0B/AM with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.ca
				




The Intel 760P 1TB is the hghest SPEC NVME drive you can buy and 1TB is $249.99









						Intel 760p Series M.2 2280 1TB PCIe Internal SSD - Newegg.com
					

Buy Intel 760p Series M.2 2280 1TB PCIe NVMe 3.1 x4 3D2 TLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) SSDPEKKW010T8X1 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.ca
				




vs the WD Balck which is $309.99










						WD Black NVMe M.2 2280 1TB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) WDS100T2X0C - Newegg.com
					

Buy WD Black NVMe M.2 2280 1TB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 3D NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) WDS100T2X0C with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.ca
				





At the end of the day the Intel 660P will feel faster than an SSD and just as fast as other NVME drives. In fact if you read reviews on the 660P you will see it is faster than the 760P in some tests. For me there is no longer any reason to get an SSD over an NVME drive. Intel is good at making more than CPUs. I will give you a few examples.

1. 1GBit NIC. Most Intel solutions are better than anything Realtek has 
2. Optane: This is hands down the fastest storage you can buy. It is expensive but it works. 
3. Thunderbolt


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## dgianstefani (Jul 22, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> That is an interesting statement considering that the Intel 660P 1TB is actually selling cheaper than 1 TB SSDs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You realise the the 660p is an SSD as well as being NVMe right. They're not mutually exclusive...


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## kapone32 (Jul 22, 2019)

dgianstefani said:


> You realise the the 660p is an SSD as well as being NVMe right. They're not mutually exclusive...



Yes I do realize that the main difference between an NVME and SSD is the interface. I was highlighting that an NVME drive is typically more expensive than a traditional SSD of the same capacity, unless you are talking about the 660P. That is the reason I would get that instead of an SSD. I actually have 2 of them in RAID 0 and they fly. I ordered a 3rd for even more throughput. As I stated before they do come with programs and utilities that will improve the performance and longevity of the drive.


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## Metroid (Jul 22, 2019)

I would go with the intel 660p, cheaper and has a better 4k random read.  Check here

*Sustained 4kB Random Read*
Average of QD1, QD2 & QD4 Data Rates in MB/s - Higher is Better

          Intel 660p                        *125.4*

          samsung 860 evo             *70.5*






__





						SSD 2018 Benchmarks - Compare Products on AnandTech
					

SSD 2018 benchmarks: Compare two products side-by-side or see a cascading list of product ratings along with our annotations.




					www.anandtech.com
				












						Intel SSD 660p 1TB Review: QLC Goes Mainstream
					

Intel's SSD 660p marks the debut of QLC flash for the consumer market. We review the new flash brings SATA-like pricing to the NVMe segment.




					www.tomshardware.com


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## NumberCruncher (Jul 22, 2019)

The laptop it's going in has a m.2 data see now(256gb), just wanting some more room. The Its a high end business latitude i7-7820HQ (4c/8t), w 32gb 2400 ram. It's pretty fast/quick as it is, I don't do many large file transfers, <1gb between laptop and servers. The 860 would not be slow at that at all, but it I can get nvme for $35 less at the 1TB size, kind of silly not too. As usual everyone has given much to ponder.


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## kapone32 (Jul 22, 2019)

NumberCruncher said:


> The laptop it's going in has a m.2 data see now(256gb), just wanting some more room. The Its a high end business latitude i7-7820HQ (4c/8t), w 32gb 2400 ram. It's pretty fast/quick as it is, I don't do many large file transfers, <1gb between laptop and servers. The 860 would not be slow at that at all, but it I can get nvme for $35 less at the 1TB size, kind of silly not too. As usual everyone has given much to ponder.



Trust me with the firmware update and Rapid storage program for the 660P but mostly price. There is an argument for the 660P being the best value in storage for any platform. I rememebr when traditional SSDs were first launched there was the argument about durability when we went from SLC to MLC. Now the argument is about QLC but I can tell you the Intel is faster, in every regard than my Sandisk Ultra 2 960GB and my Micron 11002TB SSD.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 6.0.2 x64 (C) 2007-2018 hiyohiyo
                          Crystal Dew World : https://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 bytes/s [SATA/600 = 600,000,000 bytes/s]
* KB = 1000 bytes, KiB = 1024 bytes

   Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :  3467.634 MB/s
  Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :  3326.892 MB/s
  Random Read 4KiB (Q=  8,T= 8) :   889.414 MB/s [ 217142.1 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q=  8,T= 8) :  1652.504 MB/s [ 403443.4 IOPS]
  Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   312.747 MB/s [  76354.2 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   237.470 MB/s [  57976.1 IOPS]
  Random Read 4KiB (Q=  1,T= 1) :    54.540 MB/s [  13315.4 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q=  1,T= 1) :   136.986 MB/s [  33443.8 IOPS]

  Test : 100 MiB [T: 4.5% (85.0/1907.7 GiB)] (x5)  [Interval=5 sec]
  Date : 2019/07/22 18:48:21
    OS : Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 18362] (x64)


This is my 2TB RAID 0 drive with 2 Intel 660Ps cost $259.99 CAD

vs 

Adata Gammix 11 1 TB Got it for a deal on Amazon $199.99

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 6.0.2 x64 (C) 2007-2018 hiyohiyo
                          Crystal Dew World : https://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 bytes/s [SATA/600 = 600,000,000 bytes/s]
* KB = 1000 bytes, KiB = 1024 bytes

   Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :  3067.719 MB/s
  Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :  2901.042 MB/s
  Random Read 4KiB (Q=  8,T= 8) :  1317.904 MB/s [ 321753.9 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q=  8,T= 8) :  1365.160 MB/s [ 333291.0 IOPS]
  Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   324.698 MB/s [  79272.0 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   235.113 MB/s [  57400.6 IOPS]
  Random Read 4KiB (Q=  1,T= 1) :    60.293 MB/s [  14720.0 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q=  1,T= 1) :   138.985 MB/s [  33931.9 IOPS]

  Test : 100 MiB [C: 4.2% (39.7/953.2 GiB)] (x5)  [Interval=5 sec]
  Date : 2019/07/22 18:30:42
    OS : Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 18362] (x64)

This is a Sandisk Ultra 2 960GB SSD $174.99 on sale a few years ago

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 6.0.2 x64 (C) 2007-2018 hiyohiyo
                          Crystal Dew World : https://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 bytes/s [SATA/600 = 600,000,000 bytes/s]
* KB = 1000 bytes, KiB = 1024 bytes

   Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :   385.730 MB/s
  Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :   340.790 MB/s
  Random Read 4KiB (Q=  8,T= 8) :   279.130 MB/s [  68147.0 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q=  8,T= 8) :   244.859 MB/s [  59780.0 IOPS]
  Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   249.850 MB/s [  60998.5 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   230.078 MB/s [  56171.4 IOPS]
  Random Read 4KiB (Q=  1,T= 1) :    30.478 MB/s [   7440.9 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q=  1,T= 1) :    63.372 MB/s [  15471.7 IOPS]

  Test : 100 MiB [H: 0.0% (0.1/894.2 GiB)] (x5)  [Interval=5 sec]
  Date : 2019/07/22 18:55:39
    OS : Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 18362] (x64)


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## Vayra86 (Jul 23, 2019)

This is shaping up to be a very informative topic. Learned a few things here


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## londiste (Jul 23, 2019)

silentbogo said:


> Between these two 660p is a no-brainer. You get nearly triple sequential speeds and more than adequate random R/W for less money.


Provided that the drive is near-empty. Reviews and test results show heavy reliance on SLC cache size of which depends on free space. Once the drive is full 660p speeds will drop well below average SATA drive speeds.


kapone32 said:


> Yes I do realize that the main difference between an NVME and SSD is the interface.


SSD is a type of drive.
NVMe and SATA are two most common drive/SSD interfaces on desktop today.
Form factor is a different thing on top of that - 2.5" and M.2 are the most common ones and while 2.5" usually has SATA interface, M.2 has both SATA and NVMe.


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## cucker tarlson (Jul 23, 2019)

660p is a banging value drive but only thanks to its caching implementation.So 2tb is a great buy, 1tb not so much,512 GB is straight awful.
Get wd blue 3d.


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## kapone32 (Jul 23, 2019)

londiste said:


> Provided that the drive is near-empty. Reviews and test results show heavy reliance on SLC cache size of which depends on free space. Once the drive is full 660p speeds will drop well below average SATA drive speeds.
> SSD is a type of drive.
> NVMe and SATA are two most common drive/SSD interfaces on desktop today.
> 
> ...


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## cucker tarlson (Jul 23, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> The WD Blue is an SSD.


and what is the OP asking about ?


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## Vario (Jul 23, 2019)

Both are a bad deal when you can buy this for $102








						Inland Premium 1TB SSD 3D NAND M.2 2280 PCIe NVMe 3.0 x4 Internal Solid State Drive, Read/Write Speed up to 3100 MBps and - Micro Center
					

Get it now! Get SSD speeds and inject new life into your laptop or desktop PC with a solid state drive from Inland Premium. With a fast, reliable Inland Premium SSD, you will experience quicker boot-up and shutdown, quicker application response and data transfer speeds than with a typical hard...




					www.microcenter.com


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## silentbogo (Jul 23, 2019)

londiste said:


> Provided that the drive is near-empty. Reviews and test results show heavy reliance on SLC cache size of which depends on free space. Once the drive is full 660p speeds will drop well below average SATA drive speeds.


Same can be applied to any SSD, including Samsung.



Vario said:


> Both are a bad deal when you can buy this for $102
> https://www.microcenter.com/product...80-pcie-nvme-30-x4-internal-solid-state-drive


Yep, an off-brand SSD with manufacturer who has no official address or website is definitely an awesome suggestion. With no one to complain to, the 3 year warranty means absolutely nothing.


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## londiste (Jul 23, 2019)

silentbogo said:


> Same can be applied to any SSD, including Samsung.


Yes, but not to the same extreme degree.


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## Stry (Jul 23, 2019)

Logged in just to say, I have the ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB as my main, and the 2TB Intel 660p as my secondary storage. I have noticed some latency issues, periodically with the 660p, but, overall, for the price, I'd still recommend it.


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## Zareek (Jul 23, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> Should I add then that it is from Intel? A company that is just as good in reliability as Samsung and has some serious credit in the NVME protocol. Even SSDs will die at some point.


While I think Intel makes extremely solid SSDs, in my expereince they are no where near as reliable as Samsung SSDs. I have yet to see a Samsung SSD fail, I have literally installed hundreds during past employment. During that time period and the following year or so I also personally processed at least half a dozen RMAs for Intel drives under warranty. The process is painless but takes more than a week. Perhaps things are slanted in my mind because Intel had a bad drive series or a bad batch that I happened to come across working for two separate employers in the same region. Perhaps things have changed since then the tables are flipped... I am not saying don't buy Intel drives they are garbage, I'm saying in my experience no brand is more reliable than Samsung for SSDs. I would definitely choose an Intel drive over an ADATA or Corsair or pretty much any brand other than Samsung.


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## Vario (Jul 23, 2019)

silentbogo said:


> Same can be applied to any SSD, including Samsung.
> 
> 
> Yep, an off-brand SSD with manufacturer who has no official address or website is definitely an awesome suggestion. With no one to complain to, the 3 year warranty means absolutely nothing.


You return it to Microcenter and they give you a new one, it is the microcenter house brand.  It has the latest E12 firmware.  You can also buy the exact same drive produced by the same OEM manufacturer but with a 5 year warranty for $10 more from Silicon Power, branded as P34A80, and $15 more and older firmware from Corsair branded as MP510.  PNY sells the same drive as well branded 3030.  Sabrent Rocket.  Its all made by the same original company and rebranded.  You can pay extra for the brand name on the box if you want to, its not that much more than the 660P so the point still stands.

This SSD board's components are all well known brand names: Phison E12 controller, Toshiba NAND, SKHynix DRAM cache.

You would be a fool to buy the 660P when for the same price or a mere few dollars more gets you a vastly superior product.


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## NumberCruncher (Aug 3, 2019)

Stry said:


> Logged in just to say, I have the ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB as my main, and the 2TB Intel 660p as my secondary storage. I have noticed some latency issues, periodically with the 660p, but, overall, for the price, I'd still recommend it.


Stry,
What driver are you using for your SX8200 pro?


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## NumberCruncher (Aug 5, 2019)

Well I ended up getting and Adata SX8200 Pro 512gb. It is wonderfully fast. I eventually want to get a 2tb model once prices drop always. The laptop is all setup for the next NVMe drive. With the included heat sink under load it stays between 31-33c. Can’t imagine something being much faster. Thanks for all of the provocative ideas and opinions. Could not be happier.


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