# Roman descendants found in China!



## TheMailMan78 (Sep 14, 2011)

Man the more people think they know "for sure" the less we really do know.



> Residents of a remote Chinese village are hoping that DNA tests will prove one of history's most unlikely legends — that they are descended from Roman legionaries lost in antiquity.
> 
> Scientists have taken blood samples from 93 people living in and around Liqian, a settlement in north-western China on the fringes of the Gobi desert, more than 200 miles from the nearest city.
> 
> ...



Source


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## de.das.dude (Sep 14, 2011)

oh puhleeze


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 14, 2011)

de.das.dude said:


> oh puhleeze



I think you underestimate the expansionism of the Roman Empire at that time. Remember Alexander the Great made it all the way to India by 300BC and that was far before the more powerful Roman Empire peaked almost 400 years later. This news of a small group making it to northern China is not that far fetched if you understand history.


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## erocker (Sep 14, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I think you underestimate the expansionism of the Roman Empire at that time. Remember Alexander the Great made it all the way to India by 300BC and that was far before the more powerful Roman Empire peaked almost 400 years later. This news of a small group making it to northern China is not that far fetched if you understand history.



I think he doesn't know what to think so he made a nice two word post to increase his post count which is something he understands because he didn't know what you thought he knew but now may know which he may not know.

Yeah, send in the janitor to pick up the pieces of your blown mind.

Anyhoo, it all makes sense. The Roman Empire was vast and it liked to have sex with everything. I have no doubt it reached to China.


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## MilkyWay (Sep 14, 2011)

could also be huns as they did cover a large empire too and included caucasian people

im open to the idea of romans reaching the fringes of china sounds plausable but needs more evidence rather than oh it could be


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## WhiteLotus (Sep 14, 2011)

Damn shame Genghis khan decided to stop and turn around when he hit the middle east. Or that would be the other way round.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Sep 14, 2011)

their just lucky so few romans got there or their pre history would have been obliterated too, yeh they built bridges but they did a fair bit of book/people burnin too


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## WhiteLotus (Sep 14, 2011)

theoneandonlymrk said:


> their just lucky so few romans got there or their pre history would have been obliterated too, yeh they built bridges but they did a fair bit of book/people burnin too



You gotta remember that it was politics that stopped the Roman empire from conquering the world, they would have easily done it. Most Roman legions had very few actual romans in them. It was a paid army and anyone could enlist. Thanks to Marius.


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## Wrigleyvillain (Sep 14, 2011)

Incredible.


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## Frick (Sep 14, 2011)

Didn't they find this tribe of redheads somewhere in China not too long ago?

EDIT: http://nell-rose.hubpages.com/hub/The-White-Tribes-of-Ancient-China


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## twilyth (Sep 15, 2011)

Frick said:


> Didn't they find this tribe of redheads somewhere in China not too long ago?
> 
> EDIT: http://nell-rose.hubpages.com/hub/The-White-Tribes-of-Ancient-China



Yeah, this has been out there for a while.  I guess the news is the fact that there is still an area where the original DNA hasn't been diluted much.  But I remember seeing a spread in NatGeo like 20 years ago that really struck me.  One of the artifacts was a tall pointy hat that was believed to belong to the village shaman.  It reminded me that all myths and fairy tales have some basis in truth and in history.


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## HossHuge (Sep 15, 2011)

Just for reference







The orange and red dots are the places mentioned in the article.






Another thing that interesting about the pics I provided is that if you look at the borders of Georgia, Azerbaijan, Iraq and Iran they haven't changed in about 1700 years.


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## entropy13 (Sep 15, 2011)

Well so evidence did crop up. Certainly one of the what-if scenarios. What if the Romans were able to subdue the Parthians and reach North (Central) Asia, and Han China gets to expand further westward too?


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## Red_Machine (Sep 15, 2011)

This is indeed possible.  It was common practice for the victor to conscript captured soldiers into its army.  Rome warred with Parthia, who warred with China.  Makes sense to me.

The explanation for entire villages with these traits also makes sense.  The Chinese would segregate capured soldiers into individual camps.  There is actually a village somewhere in western China called "Leijin", which was China's name for Rome at the time (lit. "Legion").


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 15, 2011)

entropy13 said:


> Well so evidence did crop up. Certainly one of the what-if scenarios. What if the Romans were able to subdue the Parthians and reach North (Central) Asia, and Han China gets to expand further westward too?



Ya know they found Roman clay pots off the coast of north America a few years ago also. Off of South Carolina I think. They were still sealed with olive oil inside. Honestly I think there was a lot of international trade but a lot of that info was lost due to the plague.

Celtic monks can only write so much ya know?


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## digibucc (Sep 15, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Ya know they found Roman clay pots off the coast of north America a few years ago also. Off of South Carolina I think. They were still sealed with olive oil inside. Honestly I think there was a lot of international trade but a lot of that info was lost due to the plague.
> 
> Celtic monks can only write so much ya know?



and the dark ages.  but yeah, i agree.


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## entropy13 (Sep 15, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Ya know they found Roman clay pots off the coast of north America a few years ago also. Off of South Carolina I think. They were still sealed with olive oil inside. Honestly I think there was a lot of international trade but a lot of that info was lost due to the plague.
> 
> Celtic monks can only write so much ya know?



And there was a major empire existing in North America at that time, capable of threatening the Roman Empire?


It seems you're insinuating that I'm saying that there was *no interaction at all* between the Roman Empire and Han China. Where the f**k do Romans get their silk then? From giant spiders?

So it looks like my point may have been lost with all that "overflowing levels of win."


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 15, 2011)

entropy13 said:


> And there was a major empire existing in North America at that time, capable of threatening the Roman Empire?



No but the Romans were about expansion man. They were very much explorers as was Alexandria. Its genetics to wander man. We as a species were nomadic not 5,000 years ago. Thats a drop in the bucket evolution wise.

Why do you think "open world" based games are so popular? Do you think any human likes to live in a box?


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## entropy13 (Sep 15, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> No but the Romans were about expansion man. They were very much explorers as was Alexandria. Its genetics to wander man. We as a species were nomadic not 5,000 years ago. Thats a drop in the bucket evolution wise.
> 
> Why do you think "open world" based games are so popular? Do you think any human likes to live in a box?





Confirmed. You have entirely missed the point. Or maybe because your intellect is "too superior"?


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 15, 2011)

entropy13 said:


> Confirmed. You have entirely missed the point.



No all I was stating was the fact Romans may not have conquered everything they had interaction in. That doesn't mean they were not there.


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## digibucc (Sep 15, 2011)

just a note entropy: the quote is of charlie sheen.  he is arrogant but not THAT arrogant.


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## de.das.dude (Sep 15, 2011)

erocker said:


> I think he doesn't know what to think so he made a nice two word post to increase his post count which is something he understands because he didn't know what you thought he knew but now may know which he may not know.
> 
> Yeah, send in the janitor to pick up the pieces of your blown mind.
> 
> Anyhoo, it all makes sense. *The Roman Empire was vast and it liked to have sex with everything. I have no doubt it reached to China.*



i lold.

and, the last thing i expected was history on TPU :/


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## Bo$$ (Sep 15, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> but a lot of that info was lost due to the plague.



Black Plague was Much much later man


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## erixx (Sep 15, 2011)

And Buddhist monks were in Alexandria, etc. Before computers, people really did go out, you know, haha


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 15, 2011)

Bo$$ said:


> Black Plague was Much much later man



You do know there has been WAY MORE then one plague. Rome was hit twice alone. Anyway the last great plague (most famous black) caused many records to be burned for sanitation. Also lets not forget the burning of Library of Alexandria. Also the public book burning in the public square at Granada in the 1400's. So much loss.


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## bucketface (Sep 15, 2011)

while it's possible that the residents of Liqian are descendants of Marcus Crassus' lost army (and it would make for a hell of a story) there are quite a number of equally likely explanations. it's interesting though if they were descended from the lost legion, why and how did they end up there.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 15, 2011)

bucketface said:


> while it's possible that the residents of Liqian are descendants of Marcus Crassus' lost army (and it would make for a hell of a story) there are quite a number of equally likely explanations. it's interesting though if they were descended from the lost legion, why and how did they end up there.



The movie would be EPIC!


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## Bo$$ (Sep 15, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> You do know there has been WAY MORE then one plague. Rome was hit twice alone. Anyway the last great plague (most famous black) caused many records to be burned for sanitation. Also lets not forget the burning of Library of Alexandria. Also the public book burning in the public square at Granada in the 1400's. So much loss.



Ah i thought you were refering to that one


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## HossHuge (Sep 15, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Honestly I think there was a lot of international trade but a lot of that info was lost due to the plague.



So the writers stopped writing because of a plague?  Any proof? 

And who were they trading with the barbarians or the Huns ?  Everything they needed was in the Empire.  The only other places documented were with India and China.  Now, that's not to say it didn't happen but I bet everything else was small scale.

Remember they considered everything outside the Empire uncivilized.


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 15, 2011)

HossHuge said:


> So the writers stopped writing because of a plague?  Any proof?
> 
> And who were they trading with the barbarians or the Huns ?  Everything they needed was in the Empire.  The only other places documented were with India and China.  Now, that's not to say it didn't happen but I bet everything else was small scale.
> 
> Remember they considered everything outside the Empire uncivilized.



No one ever stopped writing man. You have to understand that the only way to cleanse a place back then was by fire. Also we had a few "inquisitions" of various religions that burned anything not related to such religion. This happened more then once in many places. We call it the dark ages for a reason. It almost put us back to pre-history levels of ignorance. Any route or story documenting travel and contact with a culture outside of the majority may have been destroyed in that time or any other time for that matter.


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## HossHuge (Sep 15, 2011)

So, the writers at that time would have written about the plague and the commerce that happened but only the info about the commerce may have been destroyed. 

The plagues that I know of only lasted for about 5 years each but trading happened throughout the Roman times.  

The people that are mentioned in the article may be descendants of the Romans that traded with China.  They may have developed a taste for Chinese food.


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## digibucc (Sep 15, 2011)

the writers of the time would have written about everything of the time.  alot was burnt, including contemporary (at the time) writings and historical writings.  there are documents in existence still of course, both that talk about the plagues and inquisitions as well as trading routes and commerce.

we don't have anything documenting trade between the roman empire and china. that doesn't mean it didn't happen because we could have lost it in during the dark ages.

i believe that's all he is saying, and i don't see what you are arguing for or against?


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## WhiteLotus (Sep 15, 2011)

Also, there were Vikings fighting for Byzantinian Emperors. Known as the Varangian Guard. People went places, no lies there. There are maps in China that almost exactly match those of modern maps.


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## HossHuge (Sep 15, 2011)

digibucc said:


> we don't have anything documenting trade between the roman empire and china. that doesn't mean it didn't happen because we could have lost it in during the dark ages.



We have proof from both Roman and Chinese sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romano-Chinese_relations



digibucc said:


> i believe that's all he is saying, and i don't see what you are arguing for or against?



He said he believes there was a lot of international trade back then but the proof we have doesn't support that.  And his argument that it was lost during a plague doesn't hold water with me.  Maybe his a lot and my a lot are different.  Am I not allowed to disagree?


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## TheMailMan78 (Sep 15, 2011)

HossHuge said:


> We have proof from both Roman and Chinese sources.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romano-Chinese_relations
> 
> ...



What do you mean we don't have proof? You just linked proof lol. What I am saying is the the extent of that trade will never be known due to a lot of circumstances. You have no idea how much history was lost during those fires and the dark ages. I mean they don't call it the dark ages because thats when Batman was discovered.


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## digibucc (Sep 15, 2011)

HossHuge said:


> Am I not allowed to disagree?



of course you are.  my point was only that because so very much was lost, burnt - that the lack of writing about it is not proof against it.


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## HossHuge (Sep 16, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> What do you mean we don't have proof? You just linked proof lol.



Twas replying to an assertion made by another.  If you had looked up just little in my post you would/should have known that silly........


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## Completely Bonkers (Sep 16, 2011)

In a thousand years time, there will be NO PROOF of this interaction here on TPU, therefore this interaction did not take place. 

Now bow down to the holy missile.


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