# High temps and help on basic pc optimization



## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

Hi there 
My name is Simon, 1 and a half year ago I bought my beloved computer, custom build by some guys who know what they are doing (;
Back then I was what you would call a heavy gamer with no further interest in what a computer really is, but now, times have changed.
Recently I found out a little about the term overclocking, and it sounded amazing to me, i figured out that temperature plays quite an important role, so i downloaded RealTemp and that kinda blew me mind. The readings were as follows:

Temperature
62 58 60 60
Distance to TJ Max
38 45 42 42

Theese readings where made made after just a couple of hours surfing the internet, no gaming.

As I said I am quite a newb and about 6 months after i bought my pc i decided to change my fan becouse my computer were noisy, just to find out that it didn't help.. 
I have some different problems with the computer and changed hardisc once.
Below i will add some imformation about my set-up taken from WinAudit, please reply with a little bit of help, I would love to get a little part of your apparently really nice community.

Love
Simon from Denmark

Computer Name	BRUGER-PC 
Domain Name	WORKGROUP 	
Roles	Workstation, Server, Potential Browser, Master Browser 
Description 	
Operating System	Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 64-Bit 
Manufacturer	MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD 
Model	MS-7360 
Number Of Processors	1 
Processor Description	Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9300 @ 2.50GHz 
Total Memory	4096MB 
Total Hard Drive	466GB 
Display	SyncMaster 2043 BW, SyncMaster 940BW 
BIOS Version	041807 - 20070418

PS. RealTemp read that my processer had 2336.01 MHz...


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## arroyo (May 31, 2010)

Welcome to TPU Community!

About your problem. If your PC don't crashes, and you have BOX cooler on CPU, than your temps are OK. Don't worry about it.


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## Fourstaff (May 31, 2010)

Sounds like your computer is rather hot. Are you using the stock heat sink for your processor? Please fill in the details of your computer here.


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## NdMk2o1o (May 31, 2010)

A good idea would be to fill your systems specs in, cliky

Do you have the stock cooler on? if so you could invest a little bit of money in an  aftermarket cooler for your cpu.

Clean out ur case, removing any dust from fans/filters etc.

Reseat and reapply thermal paste, could be seated incorrectly. 

And lastly welcome to TPU


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## TheMailMan78 (May 31, 2010)

Have you already overclocked or is everything set to default? Also make sure you make better thread titles next time. The mods hate titles like "Help". Welcome to TPU!


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## twilyth (May 31, 2010)

Can you bring up task manager, click on the processes tab and sort them by cpu usage.

Are there any processes consistently using 25% of the cpu?  If so, since you have a quad, there will most likely be 4 of them.  Let us know what they are.  Just one should be enough to get an idea of what is running.

I won't bother explaining right now since it probably isn't an issue.


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## Deleted member 3 (May 31, 2010)

Start by reading the forum rules, this thread title is not acceptable.


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

Fourstaff said:


> Sounds like your computer is rather hot. Are you using the stock heat sink for your processor? Please fill in the details of your computer here.



I filled specs. 
I have got an Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 7



NdMk2o1o said:


> A good idea would be to fill your systems specs in, cliky
> 
> Do you have the stock cooler on? if so you could invest a little bit of money in an  aftermarket cooler for your cpu.
> 
> ...



I have just done some cleaning, but I do it regularly and there wasn't really much dust in there
I have no idea how to handle the thermal paste, googled it and I found out it surrounds the CPU chip, is that right? 
And thanks



TheMailMan78 said:


> Have you already overclocked or is everything set to default? Also make sure you make better thread titles next time. The mods hate titles like "Help". Welcome to TPU!



No I never overclocked, but I would love to optimize my performance a bit without having to much of a risk. 
And sorry about the name.



twilyth said:


> Can you bring up task manager, click on the processes tab and sort them by cpu usage.
> 
> Are there any processes consistently using 25% of the cpu?  If so, since you have a quad, there will most likely be 4 of them.  Let us know what they are.  Just one should be enough to get an idea of what is running.
> 
> I won't bother explaining right now since it probably isn't an issue.



Well, no, i do think Opera is using quite a lot (; But i guess thats intended


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## twilyth (May 31, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> And sorry about the name.



Just so you know, they want you to edit the original post and change the title to something descriptive.


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

twilyth said:


> Just so you know, they want you to edit the original post and change the title to something descriptive.



I would be glad to do so, but can't figure out how,  Thanks


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## dr emulator (madmax) (May 31, 2010)

have you tried cpu-z? available from here(tells you about cpu speed fsb etc) 

and hw monitor for your temps here

and ofcause gpu-z for your graphics card here


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> I would be glad to do so, but can't figure out how,  Thanks



I changed the title through edit > go advanced > title on the original post, but didn't change the forum title s:


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## twilyth (May 31, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> I changed the title through edit > go advanced > title on the original post, but didn't change the forum title s:



I just tested it on an old post of mine from a month ago and it worked fine.

Don't know what to say, click on Dan's username (post #7) and send him a PM


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## dr emulator (madmax) (May 31, 2010)

title change on the way


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

dr emulator (madmax) said:


> have you tried cpu-z? available from here(tells you about cpu speed fsb etc)
> 
> and hw monitor for your temps here
> 
> and ofcause gpu-z for your graphics card here



Hey, and thank you.
I downloaded all three and I am quite overwhelmed by what they can tell me (;
Though I have no idea what to do with them, should I save the reports as .txt's and upload or what? 
The temp readings is 64 58 58 58 after less than an hour of surfing..


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## Mussels (May 31, 2010)

dr emulator (madmax) said:


> title change on the way



done



LoneSnake said:


> Hey, and thank you.
> I downloaded all three and I am quite overwhelmed by what they can tell me (;
> Though I have no idea what to do with them, should I save the reports as .txt's and upload or what?
> The temp readings is 64 58 58 58 after less than an hour of surfing..



if you're just surfing the wem, 60-65C temps is too hot.

Your CPU heatsink is either not attached properly, or not transferring heat for some reason (dust, broken fan, no/dried up thermal paste)


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## twilyth (May 31, 2010)

Something I just thought of - the cpu fan is probably set to rev up and down with cpu usage.  I can't remember how that works though so I hope someone else jumps in.  It might be a bios setting but I'm not sure.

You can test it under load with Prime 95 - http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/ - you can go to step 3 and dl.  You don't have to register - at least you never used to.

There are newer tools but I can't remember the names.

I'm old.


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

twilyth said:


> Something I just thought of - the cpu fan is probably set to rev up and down with cpu usage.  I can't remember how that works though so I hope someone else jumps in.  It might be a bios setting but I'm not sure.
> 
> You can test it under load with Prime 95 - http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/ - you can go to step 3 and dl.  You don't have to register - at least you never used to.
> 
> ...



I love how they call it a torture test, but should I do an In-place large FFT (Maximum heat, power consumption, some RAM) or the Blend (tests some of everything, lots of RAM)

Thanks


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

Mussels said:


> done
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks

What should I do? well I just looked inside my beast again (; and I saw that the fan was a bit floppy, as one or two of the connections has broken.. I had my computer tested once and they glued the two other connections, would a crappy picture help?


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## Mussels (May 31, 2010)

twilyth said:


> There are newer tools but I can't remember the names.
> 
> I'm old.



OCCT, orthos.


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## TheMailMan78 (May 31, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> Thanks
> 
> What should I do? well I just looked inside my beast again (; and I saw that the fan was a bit floppy, as one or two of the connections has broken.. I had my computer tested once and they glued the two other connections, would a crappy picture help?



Yes. post pic.


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## twilyth (May 31, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> I love how they call it a torture test, but should I do an In-place large FFT (Maximum heat, power consumption, some RAM) or the Blend (tests some of everything, lots of RAM)
> 
> Thanks



You don't really expect me to know the answer do you?

Sorry.

I have a low frustration threshold and never had a knack for OC'ing so I never really played with it much.  I can't remember what setting I normally used (guess this is becoming a theme) but I think it was whatever stressed the cpu most which looks like the first one.

They should each have the cpu on all fours post haste.

The main reason I suggested it was to see how dramatically the temps go up under load.  If it's only 5C or so, then the fan is probably compensating and you will hopefully be able to hear that.  If it's more, we'll burn that bridge when we come to it.

Since your pc was custom built by (I'm assuming) someone reputable, they should have done at least a decent job of applying the thermal paste, so that wouldn't be my first guess, but other guys here have a lot more experience.


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## dr emulator (madmax) (May 31, 2010)

well they are all types of monitoring software 
best one to try that doesn't require you to be a rocket scientist is hw monitor 
that should tell you the speed of your cpu's fan and it's internal/external temperatures







gpu-z will tell you the temperature and clock speeds of your graphics card/s bios versions fan speeds etc 

just click on the .exe files

and tell everyone what they say


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

http://img401.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=30645710.png


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Yes. post pic.



I posted a link, couldn't figure out how to integrate images..


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## dr emulator (madmax) (May 31, 2010)

you can upload pictures here

just follow the simple steps


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## p_o_s_pc (May 31, 2010)

Reseat your heatsink and use some fresh thermal paste. Using the push pins on that cooler caused problems for me(one wouldn't lock all the way or come loose) so give that a try and see how temps are


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## twilyth (May 31, 2010)

p_o_s_pc said:


> Reseat your heatsink and use some fresh thermal paste. Using the push pins on that cooler caused problems for me(one wouldn't lock all the way or come loose) so give that a try and see how temps are



good point.  I've had that problem too and it's easy to miss.  But if that were the problem, he  would have one or 2 cores that were much hotter than the others - at least that's how I finally realized what was going on.  His temps are pretty consistent.

edit - it's a tower case right?  So the heatsink sticks out from the cpu (parallel with desk)?


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

dr emulator (madmax) said:


> you can upload pictures here
> 
> just follow the simple steps



Here they are


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

twilyth said:


> good point.  I've had that problem too and it's easy to miss.  But if that were the problem, he  would have one or 2 cores that were much hotter than the others - at least that's how I finally realized what was going on.  His temps are pretty consistent.
> 
> edit - it's a tower case right?  So the heatsink sticks out from the cpu (parallel with desk)?



Fish  haha, does the picture say so? But I think it's a tower case yes, NZXT HUSH


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

p_o_s_pc said:


> Reseat your heatsink and use some fresh thermal paste. Using the push pins on that cooler caused problems for me(one wouldn't lock all the way or come loose) so give that a try and see how temps are



Those pins are annoying indeed, but i don't see how reseating the whole thing would help... Thermal paste replacement, is it easy? And would you recommend me just doing it?

EDIT if I know what pin's you are talking about, haha. I think of the ones connecting the fan the the metal doobelidoo


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## twilyth (May 31, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> Those pins are annoying indeed, but i don't see how reseating the whole thing would help... Thermal paste replacement, is it easy? And would you recommend me just doing it?
> 
> EDIT if I know what pin's you are talking about, haha. I think of the ones connecting the fan the the metal doobelidoo



I'd only do that as a last resort, especially for a first timer and especially with push pins.  But unless there are some other ideas, we might be there.

The push pins connect the mounting bracket for the heatsink to the motherboard.  Each is a little plastic spike with rod in the center.  The spike is actually 2 pieces.  When you push down on the pins, that pushes out the rod and that splays (pushes out) the tips of the spike to lock it into the board.

The problem with remounting those things is
1.  it's impossible to get the tips close enough together again so that you can get them all to back into the same holes at the same time.  You have get 4 binder clips and some super glue (cyanoacrylate), glue the tips together (make sure rods are retracted) and hold them with the binder clips for an hour or so.  Then you can wiggle them in.  The shearing force of the rods being pushed down will break the bond of the glue.

2.  You have to use a fair amount of force to push them down enough to lock.  As long as the motherboard is properly mounted, that's not a problem, but it's going to feel wrong - like you're using too much force.  If it's not properly mounted in the sense that there isn't a standoff (metal screw that 'stands off' from the case) under every mounting hole, it's possible to crack the board.

If that's you're only option, I would seriously consider calling the builder and asking him to help you out.


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

I have just gotten a reply on a Danish forum saying that my back fan is facing wrong, making turbulence, ill shut down the monster, change direction and be back as fast as a can..  .OOPS.  embarrassing


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## twilyth (May 31, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> I have just gotten a reply on a Danish forum saying that my back fan is facing wrong, making turbulence, ill shut down the monster, change direction and be back as fast as a can..  .OOPS.  embarrassing



That's a good thing to do if it wasn't mounted correctly and makes me question  the quality of the rest of the build - like whether or not there might in fact be a problem with the TIM paste (thermal interface material).

All my machines run in open cases - wild and free - so I don't know if that would make significant difference.  I'll be interested in knowing if it does.


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

twilyth said:


> That's a good thing to do if it wasn't mounted correctly and makes me question  the quality of the rest of the build - like whether or not there might in fact be a problem with the TIM paste (thermal interface material).
> 
> All my machines run in open cases - wild and free - so I don't know if that would make significant difference.  I'll be interested in knowing if it does.



I removed the side and the temps dropped app 5 degrees c
Then I faced the fan right and now the idle temps are  58 53 54 53 in CoreTemp with side on. so that helped quite a lot.
Well considering the quality, it was me who installed that fan, as the only modification on the internal hardware since i bought it. I guess I were just a tad too fast back then...


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## twilyth (May 31, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> I removed the side and the temps dropped app 5 degrees c
> Then I faced the fan right and now the idle temps are  58 53 54 53 in CoreTemp with side on. so that helped quite a lot.
> Well considering the quality, it was me who installed that fan, as the only modification on the internal hardware since i bought it. I guess I were just a tad too fast back then...



Oh.  Sorry.  Didn't mean to insult you.  In your case it's an understandable mistake.  It's not for a builder.

It's weird that the core temps aren't as consistent as they were before.  2-3C I think is normal but that 5C difference between 53 and 58 doesn't look right.  I'm not sure though.

It certainly is a lot better.  Excellent call by that other site.  Maybe I should have one "normal" rig with side panels and shit just to see what it's like.


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

twilyth said:


> Oh.  Sorry.  Didn't mean to insult you.  In your case it's an understandable mistake.  It's not for a builder.
> 
> It's weird that the core temps aren't as consistent as they were before.  2-3C I think is normal but that 5C difference between 53 and 58 doesn't look right.  I'm not sure though.
> 
> It certainly is a lot better.  Excellent call by that other site.  Maybe I should have one "normal" rig with side panels and shit just to see what it's like.



It's no problem at all! I knew where you were going (; 

Maybe, but normal doesn't have to be right!


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## twilyth (May 31, 2010)




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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

I guess these temps are still to high for some basic overclocking or what?
Later tonight I will game some CS:S and Crysis to see how much the temps change..


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## twilyth (May 31, 2010)

I'm maybe 70% sure that a 5C difference is very unusual if the heatsink is mounted properly.  But get some other opinions to be sure.  I do build or rebuild a few machines each year but I'm not a technician.

If it's not mounted correctly, then it would make sense that we see this change immediately after going inside the case - it's difficult to play around with the exhaust fan and not at least bump into the heatsink.

Try running prime95 and see if there is still a big difference.  It should go up in at least a linear way.

On the other hand I vaguely remember stories about erroneous temp readings, but I would tend to trust the numbers if they are consistent from idle to load.

You can try gently, very gently, grabbing the heatsink and nudging it around a bit to see if one corner might have a little more "play" (not sure how that translates) than the others.

I might be off line in a bit but I'll check in later.


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## twilyth (May 31, 2010)

Oh.  Forgot.  For oc'ing, I'm not your guy.  I know you do something with the multiplier and the voltage and some other parameters that I never have and never will understand.  Not to mention that they will only be available to mod in high end or high mid-range boards.

I would start with the sticky threads in the oc section and take your time.  It's not too hard to fry a board.  Chips require a little more effort.  Plus, unless it's a really good board or you get really lucky, an oc that's stable today might not be in a couple months.  Or it might still be stable but the board dies prematurely.  I think I still have one with scorch marks on it.


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

Anybody got suggestions?


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## TheMailMan78 (May 31, 2010)

Who ever built that system and sold it should be shot. The cable management is horrible.

Can you take a picture of the front of the cooler where the fan is? Also make sure ALL fans in your case are running.

Second reset the bios. I know you didn't do anything but they may have.


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## Radical_Edward (May 31, 2010)

If you want to bring your temps down some more, work on that cable management. The way your cables are now may be hurting your airflow.






As I have show, this is the way air should move in your case. The blue arrow being cool fresh air being drawn in from the outside, the red arrows being where it is flowing hot air out of the case. See where all those cables are where the air is being drawn in? Try finding a way to manage  them so they won't block as much airflow.


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## sneekypeet (May 31, 2010)

Have you tried turning up the fan speed on the graphics card yet?


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Who ever built that system and sold it should be shot. The cable management is horrible.
> 
> Can you take a picture of the front of the cooler where the fan is? Also make sure ALL fans in your case are running.
> 
> Second reset the bios. I know you didn't do anything but they may have.



Could you make a brief step tutorial on reseting the BIOS? and the pic is on its way


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> If you want to bring your temps down some more, work on that cable management. The way your cables are now may be hurting your airflow.
> 
> http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/Renagade_Recon/4fb50ed0.jpg
> 
> As I have show, this is the way air should move in your case. The blue arrow being cool fresh air being drawn in from the outside, the red arrows being where it is flowing hot air out of the case. See where all those cables are where the air is being drawn in? Try finding a way to manage  them so they won't block as much airflow.



I'll try doing that, though these cables are really tight fitted by those apparently bad builders..


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## Radical_Edward (May 31, 2010)

Cable management isn't that hard to do, just sit down and think about it for a bit, then go at it. I use to be terrible at it, but then, with some practice, I got the hang of it.

Edit- 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Okay, so you see those red lines? Cut those two zip ties. Next, try to route all cables in the blue area to the left side of the case. (The other side.) It should be fairly easy to do. If you need any more help with this, remember to post some photos as you go. They could be very helpful.


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> Cable management isn't that hard to do, just sit down and think about it for a bit, then go at it. I use to be terrible at it, but then, with some practice, I got the hang of it.
> 
> Edit- http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/Renagade_Recon/20a0f0e9.jpg
> 
> Okay, so you see those red lines? Cut those two zip ties. Next, try to route all cables in the blue area to the left side of the case. (The other side.) It should be fairly easy to do. If you need any more help with this, remember to post some photos as you go. They could be very helpful.



Oh, thank you very much, I am really overwhelmed about how much you guys help, and how fast, i'll unpluck the beast go for it and take some pic's (;


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## Radical_Edward (May 31, 2010)

It's no big deal, it's always nice to help another TPU'er. plus, everyone has to learn sometime, so I figure it'd be better to help, then not. 

Can't wait to see how it goes.


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> It's no big deal, it's always nice to help another TPU'er. plus, everyone has to learn sometime, so I figure it'd be better to help, then not.
> 
> Can't wait to see how it goes.



Overview





From back looking to the front




Showing airflow's possibilities









By request, the front of the CPU cooler





As you can see, I hope, i simplified the "highway" of voltage through the airstream and moved a lot of the wiring down to the bottom of the case.

I don't see this as done and hope for inputs for improvements, it was quite a lot of weird fun


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

BTW after app. half an hour of surfing, uploading and installation of one application the temps are now as follows:
51 46 45 46


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## LoneSnake (May 31, 2010)

After half an hour of CS:S gaming the temp reads (High/maximum) are:
62 58 58 58

Do you have some kind of Core stress app. suggestion so that I can check how high it'll go?


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

For testing CPU at max load... I use World Community Grid

That looks quite a bit better on those cables. Also, I notice your PC seems to have quite a bit of dust, you should buy a few cans of duster and go at it, it could help your temps.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> For testing CPU at max load... I use World Community Grid
> 
> That looks quite a bit better on those cables. Also, I notice your PC seems to have quite a bit of dust, you should buy a few cans of duster and go at it, it could help your temps.



Well, just bought a can of "air" (;  Quite a bit more expencive than i would've thought, app 22 USD.

And I will test the CPU shortly-


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## p_o_s_pc (Jun 1, 2010)

You can use Orthos to test your CPU or LinX they both work great


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

0.o

I can get 2 10oz cans of that for $10 at Bi-Mart, where do you live?


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## twilyth (Jun 1, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> After half an hour of CS:S gaming the temp reads (High/maximum) are:
> 62 58 58 58
> 
> Do you have some kind of Core stress app. suggestion so that I can check how high it'll go?





LoneSnake said:


> BTW after app. half an hour of surfing, uploading and installation of one application the temps are now as follows:
> 51 46 45 46



I still don't like those temps.  post 53 is ok, but 52 now has a max diff of 6C.  IDK.  I wish someone else would comment.  Maybe we should go by the temps on the stress test instead?  Maybe I should shut up?  

be gentle.

Oh. and $20 bleepity bleep for some bleepin' compressed air?  I hope they at least served you dinner first.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> 0.o
> 
> I can get 2 10oz cans of that for $10 at Bi-Mart, where do you live?



I live in expensive Denmark in Scandinavia  Everything is a lot more expensive over here...


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

Ah, that would explain it. 

You get a chance to clean your PC out yet?


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

I guess this is a load temp reading (;


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> Ah, that would explain it.
> 
> You get a chance to clean your PC out yet?



Well I can pull out the vacuum and a small brush, but just got a confirmation on the duster can and i'll get it tomorrow morning..


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

Wait for the duster. If your CPU cooler is dusty, your temps may drop quite a bit. Post a update when you get it cleaned out.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> Wait for the duster. If your CPU cooler is dusty, your temps may drop quite a bit. Post a update when you get it cleaned out.



I will


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## twilyth (Jun 1, 2010)

What's a duster?


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

twilyth said:


> What's a duster?



Well, the "can of air" (;


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

twilyth said:


> What's a duster?



an item used to remove dust from other items.


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## twilyth (Jun 1, 2010)

I was just wondering if it sucked or blew.  I was hoping it wasn't anything kinky - like a feather boa or something.  :shadedshu


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

twilyth said:


> I was just wondering if it sucked or blew.  I was hoping it wasn't anything kinky - like a feather boa or something.  :shadedshu



it does neither. it is kinky. it is something like a feather boa.

here is a maid with a feather duster


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 1, 2010)

Seeing this guys rig just pisses me off. I mean someone CHARGED him to build that. Thats pretty F#$ked up IMO.

FYI Lonesnake its not that you have bad parts. Its the way they were just tossed together. No pride in what they were giving you and because of it you may have high temps now.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

twilyth said:


> I was just wondering if it sucked or blew.  I was hoping it wasn't anything kinky - like a feather boa or something.  :shadedshu





Mussels said:


> it does neither. it is kinky. it is something like a feather boa.
> 
> here is a maid with a feather duster
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/100601/Capture740.jpg



The duster i am referring to is a can with air, blowing, i just bought it of the internet and it will come tomorrow (;


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Seeing this guys rig just pisses me off. I mean someone CHARGED him to build that. Thats pretty F#$ked up IMO.
> 
> FYI Lonesnake its not that you have bad parts. Its the way they were just tossed together. No pride in what they were giving you and because of it you may have high temps now.




Yea I guess I know where you are going, though I found out that the original HDD they recommended me was S**T.

No offense, but but is not much I can do about it without one of you guys telling me how. Hmm, should I reconstruct it with the same parts and an extra fan in the front? Wonder if I could do a better job with help from you.. Would it do anything good you think?


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 1, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> Yea I guess I know where you are going, though I found out that the original HDD they recommended me was S**T.
> 
> No offense, but but is not much I can do about it without one of you guys telling me how. Hmm, should I reconstruct it with the same parts and an extra fan in the front? Wonder if I could do a better job with help from you.. Would it do anything good you think?



Well lets get your temp fixed first. After that we will help you with the cables and such. FYI your system isnt bad. It just needs some work 

Also one thing we havnt covered is your processes. Post a pic of your task manager at idle. Just remember to block out your name and such. You could have a background process thats running up your temps. 

Just to let you know this is what a "clean" rig looks like.










This is my rig before a lot of updates. I dont have the cooler anymore and such but you get the idea.


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

Agreed, let's tackle the temps for now.  The cables aren't blocking much airflow at the moment. Get that case cleaned out and it should help temps a tad. (Depending on how much dust is in your CPU cooler's fins.) 

Then we'll move on to how you should route the cables and such. Is there even another place to mount a fan in that case without cutting out a spot for one?


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Neat rig! Wish mine was just like, no wish mine is gonna be able to look just a little bit more like that than what it looks like now 

Hmm, post disappeared, i'll try again..

I got a tip from a guy saying that I could dedicate the 3 spare OD slots for one 120mm fan er 2 of them for 2 80 mm fans.. I tried to illustrate, haha


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Well lets get your temp fixed first. After that we will help you with the cables and such. FYI your system isnt bad. It just needs some work
> 
> Also one thing we havnt covered is your processes. Post a pic of your task manager at idle. Just remember to block out your name and such. You could have a background process thats running up your temps.










Dunno if this is "Real Idle, but..."


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

Yeah, you could fit a 120mm in there. I personally put a 120mm in my 5.25 bays as well. If your going to put fan(s) there and want to stay "quiet" I'd stick with a good 120mm, 80mm's don't move enough air if they are the lower dba models. (Normally, I'm sure there are a few exceptions to this.) 


Another decent example of good cable management would be my rig...


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> Yeah, you could fit a 120mm in there. I personally put a 120mm in my 5.25 bays as well. If your going to put fan(s) there and want to stay "quiet" I'd stick with a good 120mm, 80mm's don't move enough air if they are the lower dba models. (Normally, I'm sure there are a few exceptions to this.)
> 
> 
> Another decent example of good cable management would be my rig...
> ...



Nice rig. 

I only have 2 problems.. On the front of my case there is like a flippy floppy thingy covering the 5 1/4 slots.. And, if i open three of the slots, wouldn't it just be bare fan and no "protection" at all'?..


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

Fan grills. They are your friends. 






See?


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> Fan grills. They are your friends.
> 
> http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/Renagade_Recon/12573366.jpg
> 
> See?



Ahh, we could mate up perfectly, grills and I (; But still, the Flippy Floppy thingy annoys me a bit 

Closed







Open





Wondering if I should remove it, though it then may look a bit wack, tell me what you guys think


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

I'd leave the Door on, but that's just me. 

But if you are bothered by it, you could remove it, although at that point I'd rather get a different case if I were you.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> I'd leave the Door on, but that's just me.
> 
> But if you are bothered by it, you could remove it, although at that point I'd rather get a different case if I were you.



I think that's my opinion as well. I am not sure how much the fan would move the temps. And I guess with that Flippy Flo.... on no fan can be placed in those slots..


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

Well, I'm looking at a photo on Newegg, and I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to install it there. 

Install into the 5.25 bay area, then put a fan grill on it, it wouldn't have to stick out at all. Thus, it wouldn't interfere with the door.


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

In fact, here's where I'd install it, and how the new airflow would work.  








Edit- Whoops, thought I hit edit on my other post, didn't mean to double post there...


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> In fact, here's where I'd install it, and how the new airflow would work.
> 
> http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/Renagade_Recon/6603db9f.jpg
> 
> ...



Np, it looks quite good, but would I then have to have my door open always?


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

Take a look at your door. Then at your 5.25 bay panels, see all those holes and cracks? The air will go through those. 

If your door is closed, as long as it isn't some super high CFM fan, it's not going to hurt your airflow or make some nasty noise. There appears to be a decent amount of spare for air to still get in just fine.

Edit- Also, it looks like there's a backplate to that door, take that off, cut a large area hole for the 5.25 bay area, and put it back on, the fan could suck air through there no problem.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> Take a look at your door. Then at your 5.25 bay panels, see all those holes and cracks? The air will go through those.
> 
> If your door is closed, as long as it isn't some super high CFM fan, it's not going to hurt your airflow or make some nasty noise. There appears to be a decent amount of spare for air to still get in just fine.
> 
> Edit- Also, it looks like there's a backplate to that door, take that off, cut a large area hole for the 5.25 bay area, and put it back on, the fan could suck air through there no problem.



Well i have just taken of the backplate and it looks as if there is not enough space, though I can't see how air is going to be able to come into that room, as the door closes quite tight, sorry if I don't get what you are saying, please bare with me


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

It's okay, I don't have the case right in front of me, so I can only hypothesize fan placement, etc. 

You may just be out of luck then if it closes fairly tightly. Honestly I'd get a new case unless you really like your rig being quiet.

Edit- You could always cut out for a 120mm fan on the top of the case in front of the PSU.






I'd mount the fan as exhaust. Draw some more of that hot air out.

Heck, if we got those cable managed right, you could have two bottom 120mm intake fans too, if you made cuts for them.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> It's okay, I don't have the case right in front of me, so I can only hypothesize fan placement, etc.
> 
> You may just be out of luck then if it closes fairly tightly. Honestly I'd get a new case unless you really like your rig being quiet.
> 
> ...



Then i'd have 3 exhaust and 1 intake, is that good? And how difficult is it to cut that hole with just regular home tools?


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## dr emulator (madmax) (Jun 1, 2010)

out of curiosity what power supply does it have in it?


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## crush3r (Jun 1, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> Then i'd have 3 exhaust and 1 intake, is that good? And how difficult is it to cut that hole with just regular home tools?



Yes, having negative pressure in the case is good, hot air leaves more quickly and cool air replaces it


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> Then i'd have 3 exhaust and 1 intake, is that good? And how difficult is it to cut that hole with just regular home tools?








How about 3 intake and 3 exhaust? 

If you have a dremel, you'll be set, if you don't... Go get one.


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## Mussels (Jun 1, 2010)

crush3r said:


> Yes, having negative pressure in the case is good, hot air leaves more quickly and cool air replaces it



you want even pressure. negative air pressure forces fans intake fans to go faster than they should, causing them to wear out faster... and it causes dust build up.


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## crush3r (Jun 1, 2010)

Mussels said:


> you want even pressure. negative air pressure forces fans intake fans to go faster than they should, causing them to wear out faster... and it causes dust build up.



+1 on the dust build up, that's true. A few more rpm's on the fans never hurt, I'm pretty sure the fans/case will be replaced well before they wear out.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/Renagade_Recon/3875aca8.jpg
> 
> How about 3 intake and 3 exhaust?
> 
> If you have a dremel, you'll be set, if you don't... Go get one.



Looks pretty wild  anyone else have an opinion on this version? How much would it make the temp drop to add one exhaust and/or intake? 
Thanks


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Just to give you an idea about how the front looks, right now in my ears and mind, placing a 120 mm intake in 3 5.25 slots sounds like the best idea, what do you think? 








Closes quite tight in my opinion..


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

dr emulator (madmax) said:


> out of curiosity what power supply does it have in it?



Sorry it took a while... it's a LC Power Pro-Line LC6560T V2.0 Titan with a max of 560 Watts


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## LoneSnake (Jun 1, 2010)

Here's a little update, the temps have dropped a little and will hopefully drop a little more tomorrow, but for now my concern is that there is an consistent 5c difference between core 1 and the rest.... :shadedshu
Edit- Another thing I just noticed is the quite low MHz reading in real temp... 2,5 GHz Quad the salesman said 






I took out the cover in the 3 5.25's as you can se on the pic's earlier posted.. Then I closed the door, did some surfing, read  57 52 52 52 then I decided to try opening the door, 30 sec. and the temps dropped to 53 48 48 48, maybe I should get that intake up there


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 1, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> I took out the cover in the 3 5.25's as you can se on the pic's earlier posted.. Then I closed the door, did some surfing, read  57 52 52 52 then I decided to try opening the door, 30 sec. and the temps dropped to 53 48 48 48, maybe I should get that intake up there



Wow. 

Sounds like you should get some fans and some tools out. 

I'm thinking this would work out well...






3 more intakes and another exhaust would help your rig nicely.


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## TheMailMan78 (Jun 1, 2010)

Ok 64 process is high for an idle system. 14% CPU usage at idle for me is unacceptable. Restart your computer and do not open anything for about 5 minutes. This will allow all programs that are set to automatic to start. Then go here and turn off services according to the list as "safe". *Just be sure to make a restore point before you start.*
After that open up CCleaner and see what programs are set to "Startup". Make sure you turn off anything you do not need. Here is an example of mine.






As you can see I have a ton of stuff disabled. When you are done you should also. Not only may this help with your temps it WILL make your system faster. Just remember to make a restore point and if you have any questions post before you act.


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## twilyth (Jun 1, 2010)

If you have unexplained cpu usage, you should probably do a virus scan.

Malwarebytes (http://www.malwarebytes.org/) is free and well rated.  You probably already have some AV software, but no package captures everything so running something like MB along with your primary is a good thing to do.

It's probably not a virus, but it never hurts to check and MB is a great program to have.


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## Mussels (Jun 2, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Ok 64 process is high for an idle system. 14% CPU usage at idle for me is unacceptable. Restart your computer and do not open anything for about 5 minutes. This will allow all programs that are set to automatic to start. Then go here and turn off services according to the list as "safe". *Just be sure to make a restore point before you start.*
> After that open up CCleaner and see what programs are set to "Startup". Make sure you turn off anything you do not need. Here is an example of mine.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/100601/Untitled.png
> ...





my system has 80 processes at idle. its hardly excessive as many people still run programs at idle. (firefox, MSN, afterburner, afterburner OSD, rivatuner, my antivirus has a few, sound/sata/video driver tray icons have a process each)


you should always investigate CPU usage when the system should be idling, however. if you disconnect your internet and your CPU is still active, i'd take that as a bad sign.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 2, 2010)

TheMailMan78 said:


> Ok 64 process is high for an idle system. 14% CPU usage at idle for me is unacceptable. Restart your computer and do not open anything for about 5 minutes. This will allow all programs that are set to automatic to start. Then go here and turn off services according to the list as "safe". *Just be sure to make a restore point before you start.*
> After that open up CCleaner and see what programs are set to "Startup". Make sure you turn off anything you do not need. Here is an example of mine.
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/100601/Untitled.png
> ...



Honestly I'm a bit confused, I have no problem about the ccleaner part, did that on my other pc earlier. But that first part is looking odd to me, can you please explain. I went to that side and it looks a bit weird 

Haha


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## dr emulator (madmax) (Jun 2, 2010)

try Malwarebytes' Anti-Malware 1.46 here and see if it finds anything


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## LoneSnake (Jun 2, 2010)

twilyth said:


> If you have unexplained cpu usage, you should probably do a virus scan.
> 
> Malwarebytes (http://www.malwarebytes.org/) is free and well rated.  You probably already have some AV software, but no package captures everything so running something like MB along with your primary is a good thing to do.
> 
> It's probably not a virus, but it never hurts to check and MB is a great program to have.



Came out with no infections


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## LoneSnake (Jun 2, 2010)

I did the CCleaner dibbilydaa and it made my startup a lot quicker, but, yea.. I have tried to do an idle and a stress read out.
Concerning the fan I am to put in front, in the 3 5.25's, do you have any recommendations on which fans and/or know any good guides or ideas for how to put it there, I guess I need something to mount in the lower and upper bays or what? Thanks 

Edit- I see the temp diff. between core 1 and the other 3, dropped under stress.. Is this normal, good sign, bad sign 
And BTW, it seems odd to me the very different MHz readings in CoreTemp and RealTemp. Especially because it's a 2,5 GHz...


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## p_o_s_pc (Jun 2, 2010)

its normal for them to even out under stress. Temps really don't look all that bad.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 2, 2010)

p_o_s_pc said:


> its normal for them to even out under stress. Temps really don't look all that bad.



Thanks, okay. So I don't have to stress that extra fan? And how about that 5C gap, should I just look passed it? And last, how about those MHz readings, are they just fail-readings?


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## twilyth (Jun 2, 2010)

If you had a chance to gently nudge the heatsink and it felt equally secure at all 4 corners, then the 5C difference could be a few things.  Did you say that it was core0 with the highest temp?  If so, then maybe it is because that is the default core for the runnning processes.  Still seems strange, but IDK.

If not, then it could just be that the thermal paste wasn't applied properly.  At some point when you're more comfortable, you can come back to this and re-do it.

At that point, most people here will recommend that you get an after-market fan with a back plate.  You mount the back plate to the back of the mobo and the bracket to the front.  Then you secure it with 4 screws.

It's more time consuming since you have to take out the mobo, but you won't have to worry about whether or not the push pins are doing their job.

btw, the different might also be due to one push pin being a little looser than the others.  That combined with having a tower case where gravity is always pulling on the heatsink could be another explanation.

for now, as long as you're not going to go too wild oc'ing, it should be ok.

I don't know why the difference is less under load.  You would think that it would be linear or maybe slightly non-linear with a positive slope.  That's pretty interesting - at least to me.  Maybe the metal cap on the chip (IHS - integrated heat sink) distributes the extra heat better - if that even makes any sense.

For fans, I like Scythe, but I think Loons are the over all favorite.  Scythes are very quiet (most of them) but still move a lot of air.  Check the decibel specs.  For well know manufacturers, I think the numbers will be pretty accurate.

Good air flow through the case is important, but you would probably get a bigger decrease in temps by adding another fan to the heatsink.  I think it's called a push-pull configuration where one fan pushes air through the HS and the other pulls it out.

You might not have room though from looking at the pics.  The current HS fan looks like it's the 38mm (depth) variety.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 3, 2010)

twilyth said:


> If you had a chance to gently nudge the heatsink and it felt equally secure at all 4 corners, then the 5C difference could be a few things.  Did you say that it was core0 with the highest temp?  If so, then maybe it is because that is the default core for the runnning processes.  Still seems strange, but IDK.
> 
> If not, then it could just be that the thermal paste wasn't applied properly.  At some point when you're more comfortable, you can come back to this and re-do it.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the nice reply!! 

I think that i for now will stick with this Cooler if those 5C doesn't affect my system too much, as i am going to the states to study for a year in about a month and won't bring my rig. I just got my Spray can  and will now turn off my pc, let it cool, do some cleaning and see if it moves the temps, though I don't think, because the CPU cooler is quite clean, but let's see 

So please, guys  What would the next step be in my little low-budget project? Cable management or are the temps still too high?


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## Radical_Edward (Jun 3, 2010)

Those temps are okay. Some more cable management wouldn't hurt. But it's quite a bit better than before, and seeing as your case don't have a side window, you don't need to hide your cables from view. You just need to make it so they don't effect your airflow, that's all.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 3, 2010)

Radical_Edward said:


> Those temps are okay. Some more cable management wouldn't hurt. But it's quite a bit better than before, and seeing as your case don't have a side window, you don't need to hide your cables from view. You just need to make it so they don't effect your airflow, that's all.



Okay, as I can see now, they aren't really blocking for any airflow, but if anybody disagree, please speak up.


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## twilyth (Jun 3, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> i am going to the states to study for a year in about a month



If you don't mind telling people where you will heading, think about starting a thread and making that announcement.  I'm sure there are TPU members all over the country and you'd probably find at least a few from where you are going who would like to meet up.

Just a thought.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 3, 2010)

twilyth said:


> If you don't mind telling people where you will heading, think about starting a thread and making that announcement.  I'm sure there are TPU members all over the country and you'd probably find at least a few from where you are going who would like to meet up.
> 
> Just a thought.




I like the social thoughts  Though I don't think that i'm gonna make a new thread announcing it, but I am going to Oconto Falls, WI If any body in here are interested. But as I said, I unfortunately won't be bringing my Jesus (PC) partially because of the excessive weight (I will have some different carriers, especially domestically in the US, and they charge for each transition) and partially because I simply aren't gonna have all that extra time, though I guess I'm gonna buy a killer laptop, so I can still game a bit (;

Edit- By mentioning the name Jesus, no kinds of religious discussion, offending, or commenting were intended. I just like to call my rig names; Monster, Jesus, Beast. etc. (;


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## p_o_s_pc (Jun 3, 2010)

LoneSnake said:


> Thanks, okay. So I don't have to stress that extra fan? And how about that 5C gap, should I just look passed it? And last, how about those MHz readings, are they just fail-readings?



the programs can be alittle buggy sometimes. Don't worry about the temp gap my i7 under water cooling and even air cooling has a 8c gap.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 3, 2010)

p_o_s_pc said:


> the programs can be alittle buggy sometimes. Don't worry about the temp gap my i7 under water cooling and even air cooling has a 8c gap.



Oh, okay. Thanks  

But I guess. and please bear with me if not, that my pc is ready for some minor, basic I guess OC'ing, but more like optimization. Does anyone have any suggestions, other than reading the stickies, I will, but maybe someone is up for a little personal help, as I just want minor improvements.

Thank you! All of You guys really rocks!!


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## twilyth (Jun 3, 2010)

Since i just fried another mobo and/or chip (see here), you should probably ignore me.


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## LoneSnake (Jun 4, 2010)

twilyth said:


> Since i just fried another mobo and/or chip (see here), you should probably ignore me.



:shadedshu :shadedshu

Haha, I guess I will, maybe I should make a new thread, I have just been so happy with the help in this one


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