# Is OC'ing a Micro ATX worth it?



## RigRebel (Mar 19, 2015)

Hi all,

I have been overclocking video cards for years but never a CPU. I'm stepping up to a new build soon and getting  ideas together. I Think am going i7-Haswell and probably the 4790K DC.. .(unless Devils Canyon is not worth it???).

I have also been looking at the main contenders (ASUS Gene, Gigabyte Gaming5, MSI Gaming etc. etc..) all in the Z97 chipset realm and I am finding sprinklings of advice that even Devil's Canyon won't pull that much wattage on  8 phase MSI Micro ATX. Does it end there or can you still get a good OC? 

Also,  1.) I  wondering is Oc'ing a Micro ATX  worth it, especially in comparison to a  full ATX? 2.) Can I achieve similar results as ATX overclocking or am I looking at probably a 500Mhz bump period? Lastly, 3.)  Will my Seasonic X650 gold do the job for now pushing a single Video card (7870 oc'd to 1225/1450), 1 SSD 1 TBHD, 1BUHD and DVD-BLUray-Bruner?

PS... my case is good, it's and Aerocool Dead Silent cube will be using either 190mm tower fan or Large liquid cooler and I am only asking for product information such as phasing, mosfet cooling and stats that relate directly to overclocking.

Thanks


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## thebluebumblebee (Mar 19, 2015)

ATX/uATX has no affect on OC'ing.
X650 is more than enough.


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## Jstn7477 (Mar 19, 2015)

I overclocked a 3770K to 4.2GHz on a cheap ASRock Z77 Pro4-M without issue, should be pretty easy with Intel LGA 115x, even on cheap Z97 boards. As long as the VRM section looks good, which it should be on Z97 boards, then you should be good.


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## RigRebel (Mar 19, 2015)

Jstn7477 said:


> I overclocked a 3770K to 4.2GHz on a cheap ASRock Z77 Pro4-M without issue, should be pretty easy with Intel LGA 115x, even on cheap Z97 boards. As long as the VRM section looks good, which it should be on Z97 boards, then you should be good.



Thanks, I am leaning towards the Gigabyte Z97MX Gaming 5 or the Asus GENE. The Gigabyte has only 4 digital phases. I was looking at the MSI because it's 8 phased but it's a digi/analog hybrid. The price differs from all three greatly at about $50 difference each starting with the Gigabyte<MSI<ASUS and I don't mind spending money but I don't want to blow it if it's not worth it on the Devils Canyon, Thoughts ?


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## INSTG8R (Mar 19, 2015)

Well just know there isn't alot of headroom on the 4790K. Getting up past 4.7 is a difficult task on the best of boards.


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## peche (Mar 19, 2015)

form factor on motherboards does not affect overclock results...
all depends of your skills dude...


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## Schmuckley (Mar 19, 2015)

i had my chip up to 5600 on a mATX board...
the other day
Things weren't going right though,total fail of a session.
There's really only 1 mATX board to get for overclocking z97..
It is an amazing board, though.


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## RigRebel (Mar 19, 2015)

peche said:


> form factor on motherboards does not affect overclock results...
> all depends of your skills dude...



Ummm disagree with you dude... mosfets, power draw and the ability for bigger atx to pull more power matter. Several posts confirm it. In fact look at the fact that most ATX boards use 2.0-2.1volt RAM and most MATX use 1.5~1.65 volt RAM. Full ATX simply can pull more power/wattage/volts. Also, most board manufactures put all the time and money into developing ATX solutions and mATX overclocking became an offshoot of that basically starting with the first ASUS Gene Series. For the most part, manufactures dump all the quality stuff into ATX and ATX has better phasing in general. The only board that even does true 8 Digital phasing in mATX is the Asus GENE VII that I know of and that's a $210+ dollar board. Also the one I'm leaning towards more now.

And as far as my skill I'm 14 year A+ net+ and 7 year DSCE certified in about 60 different laptop models for daily field service break fix, including complete teardown and rebuilds in 40min or less. I was probably lapping sinks before you touched your first keyboard.

And ps...I'm not trying to just throwing a CPU in a board, hit the overclock and XMP button. I am looking more for that 5600mhz Schmuckley posted.



Schmuckley said:


> i had my chip up to 5600 on a mATX board...
> the other day
> Things weren't going right though,total fail of a session.
> There's really only 1 mATX board to get for overclocking z97..
> It is an amazing board, though.



What board is it ? The GENE VII ? that's the one I'm probably going to go with if I even decide it's worth it.


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## ap4lifetn (Mar 19, 2015)

i am nowhere near a hardcore overclocker, but i have my 4790k @ 4.7GHz on all cores with stock voltage using my GENE VI, i have to increase voltage to go any higher and it's just something I don't want to do.

I think with adequate cooling, 5 might be doable, however 5.6 on a devils canyon will require one of those XXX EXTREME ATX motherboard with LN2.


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## Cybrnook2002 (Mar 19, 2015)

mATX can surely be overclocked nicely. However, as you mentioned, the basic physics of it are easy to see, you have a smaller board, so obviously it wont have all the bells and whistles. However, mATX is not THAT much stripped down in comparison to an ATX board, normally the width is the same, it's just the length of the board gets cut off, so you dont have as many expansion slots available or as robust Sound Cards (as they are usually on the bottom left). You can even find some mini-ITX board with full fledged power phasing, such as :
http://rog.asus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/ASUS-ROG-Maximus-VII-Impact-Gaming-Motherboard.jpg


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## Caring1 (Mar 19, 2015)

Schmuckley said:


> There's really only 1 mATX board to get for overclocking z97..



http://www.asrock.com/microsite/Fatal1tyKiller/Fatal1ty Z97M Killer.html
http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z97M OC Formula/


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## EarthDog (Mar 19, 2015)

RigRebel said:


> And ps...I'm not trying to just throwing a CPU in a board, hit the overclock and XMP button. I am looking more for that 5600mhz Schmuckley posted.


So...... you overclock using sub ambient cooling methods? As that is the only way you are going to reach 5.6Ghz+... And if that is the case, I would look at either the mATX Z87 OC Formula, or the Z97 Gene VII as you are looking at already.



> Full ATX simply can pull more power/wattage/volts.


I really dislike blanket statements... Usually this is true, but in the case of the OCF and the ROG Gene, those two boards will easily handle as much if not more than a lot of ATX boards. 

The digital/analog thing really isn't a huge issue. I have taking analog and hybrid setups past 6Ghz on a 4790K. Digital is more accurate is about all.

That said, with Haswell, a lot of the power shaping is done in the CPU so the power bits tend to matter even less. But for where you want to overclock, I would look at a more robust board like the Z87 OC Formula (the z97 one is MEH - Nick Shih was not happy with that one) or the Z97 Gene VII. But again, you will need to use extreme cooling methods to get there...

The Z97m Killer is fine, but compared to the Z87m OCF and the Gene its nto as good. No onboard power/reset buttons for extreme overclocking... 


PS -  I think Peche was talking about your overclocking skills, not irrelevant professional skills.


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## peche (Mar 19, 2015)

EarthDog said:


> PS - I think Peche was talking about your overclocking skills, not irrelevant professional skills.



Correct, i was trying to say that form factor on motherboard may not be a real limitant for  overclocking... it obvious that a micro ATX is going the have less things, power phases and printed circuits compared to a full atx board, but thats not a restictive fact for OC, normal and kinda enthusiast OC can be done with micro, Extreme Oc may be limited...



RigRebel said:


> Ummm disagree with you dude... mosfets, power draw and the ability for bigger atx to pull more power matter. Several posts confirm it. In fact look at the fact that most ATX boards use 2.0-2.1volt RAM and most MATX use 1.5~1.65 volt RAM. Full ATX simply can pull more power/wattage/volts. Also, most board manufactures put all the time and money into developing ATX solutions and mATX overclocking became an offshoot of that basically starting with the first ASUS Gene Series. For the most part, manufactures dump all the quality stuff into ATX and ATX has better phasing in general. The only board that even does true 8 Digital phasing in mATX is the Asus GENE VII that I know of and that's a $210+ dollar board. Also the one I'm leaning towards more now.
> 
> And as far as my skill I'm 14 year A+ net+ and 7 year DSCE certified in about 60 different laptop models for daily field service break fix, including complete teardown and rebuilds in 40min or less. I was probably lapping sinks before you touched your first keyboard.
> 
> And ps...I'm not trying to just throwing a CPU in a board, hit the overclock and XMP button. I am looking more for that 5600mhz Schmuckley posted.


disagreed....
Micro atx may limit extreme overclocking... but minimal and decent overclock will not be afected by form factor, even your own reply says that some micro boards are good for it, like asus Gene....



RigRebel said:


> And as far as my skill I'm 14 year A+ net+ and 7 year DSCE certified in about 60 different laptop models for daily field service break fix, including complete teardown and rebuilds in 40min or less. I was probably lapping sinks before you touched your first keyboard. .


Congratulations buddy ...


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## Aquinus (Mar 19, 2015)

RigRebel said:


> And as far as my skill I'm 14 year A+ net+ and 7 year DSCE certified in about 60 different laptop models for daily field service break fix, including complete teardown and rebuilds in 40min or less. I was probably lapping sinks before you touched your first keyboard.


None of which means you know anything about overclocking. It makes more sense for someone with a degree in computer science or electrical engineering to claim that their professional skills intermingle with over-clocking. The simple fact is that the size of the motherboard only means that manufacturer as less room to work with. It's entirely possible that some manufacturers skimp on hardware to get everything to fit, but a board like ASUS' Gene will over-clock like a champ.

So for me, I don't think flaunting the fact I have a degree in Comp Sci is even relevant for this discussion, but my experience of 10 years of overclocking since skt478 days is.

As for the power phase argument, newer technology simply is going to be better than older ones (if they don't screw it up). My P9X79 Deluxe has a 16+2+2 phase power, but a more modern ASUS board with a 8+2+2 probably is just as capable if not more capable than mine. So take the number of phases with a grain of salt. The hardware is only as good as the way it was engineered, so you could have 100 power phases, but it doesn't mean it will be better. A great example is how the ASUS Rampage Black Edition has half the power phases as my board, but overclocks a lot better.

Your statements to me come off as inexperienced with respect to overclocking, so I would tread lightly before making some assumptions that very well could be false. Don't assume that your professional skills have any bearing on your ability to overclock a computer. However my professional skills do enable me to understand why thing like memory timings need to be a certain way and why which could have bearing on overclocking memory, but that's a long-shot IMHO.


EarthDog said:


> PS - I think Peche was talking about your overclocking skills, not irrelevant professional skills.


Check


peche said:


> Congratulations buddy ...


Mate.



RigRebel said:


> And ps...I'm not trying to just throwing a CPU in a board, hit the overclock and XMP button. I am looking more for that 5600mhz Schmuckley posted.


Also, as other's have said. This would require sub-ambient cooling such as phase change or LN2. Definitely not a 24/7 option in my opinion.



peche said:


> all depends of your skills dude...


Last update: It also depends on the silicon lottery.


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## EarthDog (Mar 19, 2015)

> Micro atx may limit extreme overclocking...


It won't... if you have the right board. Same goes with ATX, eATX...granted, there are LESS overclock centric boards in that form factor, but, they are there and with the right board(s) they will not limit the overclock.


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## Schmuckley (Mar 19, 2015)

RigRebel said:


> Ummm disagree with you dude... mosfets, power draw and the ability for bigger atx to pull more power matter. Several posts confirm it. In fact look at the fact that most ATX boards use 2.0-2.1volt RAM and most MATX use 1.5~1.65 volt RAM. Full ATX simply can pull more power/wattage/volts. Also, most board manufactures put all the time and money into developing ATX solutions and mATX overclocking became an offshoot of that basically starting with the first ASUS Gene Series. For the most part, manufactures dump all the quality stuff into ATX and ATX has better phasing in general. The only board that even does true 8 Digital phasing in mATX is the Asus GENE VII that I know of and that's a $210+ dollar board. Also the one I'm leaning towards more now.
> 
> And as far as my skill I'm 14 year A+ net+ and 7 year DSCE certified in about 60 different laptop models for daily field service break fix, including complete teardown and rebuilds in 40min or less. I was probably lapping sinks before you touched your first keyboard.
> 
> ...


Yessir,That is the one.   

EarthDog posted the only 2 mATX boards for overclocking: Z87m OCF and M7 Gene.
Well..You could do m6 Gene..but why?


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## RigRebel (Mar 19, 2015)

INSTG8R said:


> Well just know there isn't alot of headroom on the 4790K. Getting up past 4.7 is a difficult task on the best of boards.



Perfect, That's the info i'm looking for. 4.7 is decent and reasonable but if that's my ceiling I'm not going crazy on the mobo unless I wild hare a Asus Gene. Thank you very much quantitative info,  4.7 is a number I can handle on a reasonable build.



Schmuckley said:


> Yessir,That is the one.
> 
> EarthDog posted the only 2 mATX boards for overclocking: Z87m OCF and M7 Gene.
> Well..You could do m6 Gene..but why?




Indeed,  ...
Well it comes down to do i want to spend $130 on a AsRock OC formula and get decent overclocking or gusto out the Gene. It's coming from free money (car warranty refunds) so I don't mind spending the bucks I just don't want to waste it.

Thanks > thumbs up



Aquinus said:


> None of which means you know anything about overclocking. It makes more sense for someone with a degree in computer science or electrical engineering to claim that their professional skills intermingle with over-clocking. The simple fact is that the size of the motherboard only means that manufacturer as less room to work with. It's entirely possible that some manufacturers skimp on hardware to get everything to fit, but a board like ASUS' Gene will over-clock like a champ.
> 
> So for me, I don't think flaunting the fact I have a degree in Comp Sci is even relevant for this discussion, but my experience of 10 years of overclocking since skt478 days is.
> 
> ...




Blah blah blah thanks for text wall of death back at you..... I guess you missed the part in my intro where I said first attempt at CPU overclocking but have been doing video cards for years... and the part about lapping heat sinks, but I guess you and your wall of text know everything... Sorry gaming on a OC 7870 that I squeezed 1250/1450 out of without moding fans.... those setting are higher than Guru 3d but really that's just luck of the draw.

And for the record I mentioned my credentials because it seemed to me that Peche used a backhanded comment to suggest I might not have any skills so I showed credentials... Because, normally one can ascertain that someone with good credentials and industry experience probably has some skill ... can we not ? So, what's wrong with that ? Actually, what Peche is talking about is KNOWLEDGE.... knowledge is simply learning something, wisdom is knowing how to apply it and SKILL is the ability to learn and apply knowledge which is why i shared my credentials that suggest some skill. So again, So, what's wrong with that ?I have been a hardware specialist for over 14 years and it might be a little wrong to assume that never read a OC forum , whiteboard, overclocked anything or fiddled with ram timings... Especially without looking at my profile. lol Skill is the wrong word,  he's talking about knowledge. Once someone possesses the knowledge that can be applied with practice AND SKILL.

Also, compsci grads don't even touch a computer in their first 3 years so that doesn't do much for me. Most compsi people I know go into Java, scripting, programming etc. etc. IMHO... That's like assuming that because a receptionist knows excel they can build a pc. I know software engineers for decades that can't plug in a power supply. I also know one that worked for EA Games as a software/hardware engineer on the PS4 and PS3 controllers that sold my old GTX 8800 for 1/3 the price because he didn't' check the dimensions of his case! lol  (great guy though if you're reading M  ) I am in hardware specifically hardware specialist. . I actually 14 years hands on expr working for EA games Tiburon, Northrup Grumman, NASA, Lockheed Martin, Siemens ... etc etc..... and If I had a $ for every software, database guys, admin or compsci  major that couldn't properly trouble shoot a hardware issue past step 2 i'd  be well off, oh wait I am... but that's ok because past shell scripting in UNIX I don't know squat about programing.

Memory timings  ? Do you assume I don't know equations on CAS latency and timings? ... lol If so you assume too much about someone you don't know ....and  who are you to judge my responses anyways ? Sounds more like a rant, loll get  over yourself. it's a forum not your stage.I will however thank you for the information about phases.. You could have just stuck with that cause the rest was a useless attempt to defend someone else's fail at assumptions. All I am looking for is the KNOWLEDGE.  And who's to say I won't try different ambient cooling. One of my customers was with the NAVY and used to run their mega data centers and dropped all his motherboards into a tank of refrigerated mineral oil.. Who's to say I won't do that someday? So maybe I would like to learn more about that ? Maybe not with this build but would be fun someday   lol



EarthDog said:


> So...... you overclock using sub ambient cooling methods? As that is the only way you are going to reach 5.6Ghz+... And if that is the case, I would look at either the mATX Z87 OC Formula, or the Z97 Gene VII as you are looking at already.
> 
> I really dislike blanket statements... Usually this is true, but in the case of the OCF and the ROG Gene, those two boards will easily handle as much if not more than a lot of ATX boards.
> 
> ...



Thanks, I am well aware of the Gene I mentioned that already as being an exception... the OCF is my choice if I don't' want spend it on the Gene.
Also, thank you very much for the quantitative date on phases.. honestly phasing is something I do need more knowledge on.. I would love to find any more info on that, that helps. I am wanting to go haswell because of the 3.0 pci-e... I know I know not a really going to make a difference but that's what I want to do.

Also, I thought Peche used a backhanded comment to suggest I didn't have skill so I showed credentials as mentioned above.... usually a proper industry response when someone may directly or inadvertently suggest the lack there of correct ?


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## sneekypeet (Mar 19, 2015)

Multiple posting is frowned upon, please learn to use the edit (bottom left corner of a post) button or the multi-quote button (bottom right corner of posts you want to quote) thanks.


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## peche (Mar 19, 2015)

dude i didnt meant that you have no skills or something like that... dont know where you got that from ...
but anyway im out of this one...


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## Aquinus (Mar 19, 2015)

RigRebel said:


> Blah blah bllah thanks for text wall of death..... I guess you missed the part in my intro where i said first attempt at cpu overclocking but have been doing video cards for years... and the part about lapping heatsinks, but I guess you and your wall of text know everything... Sorry gaming on a OC 7870 that I squeezed 1250/1450 out of without moding fans... You really need to pay attention and not intrajected your own thoughts alsoo compi grads don't even touch a computer in their first 3 years ... that's like assuming thaat because a receptionist  know excel they can build a pc. I know ppc and software engineers for decaades that can't plug in a ppowersupply.. I am in hardware speciifically hardware speecialist. . i actually 14 yearss hands on exp working for EA games tiburon, NorthrupGrumman, NASA, Lockheed Martin ... etc etc..... good enough for you ? If ii had a $ forevery softtware, daatabase guuys, admiin or compsi  major that couuldn't trrouble  shoot a hardwar issue past stepp 2 i'd  be rich... oh waiit i am..
> 
> Memorey timings  ? you assume i don't know equations on CAS latency and timings... lol you asume to much about someone you don't know cause you have a grudge  against people...and  who are you to judge my responses anaways ? Sounds more like a rant, loll get  over yourself. it's a forum not your stage. Ps ipad air 2 gettiing sucky lag atm .. will finish you later. gamme has just startted how can you clll check mate  without a resplnse lol I'll  tell you why cause your game is in your head pattiing yourself on the back for your assumtions and imaginarry winn. lol
> And for information i mentioned my credetionals because
> ...


Considering your complete lack of ability to properly use the English language and how defensive you after my post, I suspect that you're soft peddling the truth and are just another one of the typical "I know everything because I learned it," trolls. If you're so knowledgeable, then a little research could have told you everything you needed to know when you started this thread. Reviews speak for themselves.

The fact you cared more about how I questioned your experience (or the benefit of it with respect to OC'ing) than the points I brought up about power phases is a clear indicator of the kind of posts we're going to see out of you. The immaturity and lack of effort being put in your posts is why I get angry at people on web when all I'm trying to do is be helpful (although maybe a little terse, but anyone at TPU knows that I can be an ass). If you need to insult me to get a point across, you shouldn't even bother posting it. So get off your high horse before people go out of their way to call you out, because with an attitude like that, they will. I'm taking the high road because I don't need to insult someone to get a point across. Maybe you should learn to do that as well.

*</Unsubbed>*


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## Caring1 (Mar 19, 2015)

peche said:


> dude i didnt meant that you have no skills or something like that... dont know where you got that from ...
> but anyway im out of this one...


Don't worry about it Peche, some people treat every post like a pissing contest, pity he's facing the wind.


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## RigRebel (Mar 19, 2015)

Ok thanks... I appreciate that .. perception has a lot to do with forum posts on both sides.



Aquinus said:


> Considering your complete lack of ability to properly use the English language and how defensive you after my post, I suspect that you're soft peddling the truth and are just another one of the typical "I know everything because I learned it," trolls. If you're so knowledgeable, then a little research could have told you everything you needed to know when you started this thread. Reviews speak for themselves.
> 
> The fact you cared more about how I questioned your experience (or the benefit of it with respect to OC'ing) than the points I brought up about power phases is a clear indicator of the kind of posts we're going to see out of you. The immaturity and lack of effort being put in your posts is why I get angry at people on web when all I'm trying to do is be helpful (although maybe a little terse, but anyone at TPU knows that I can be an ass). If you need to insult me to get a point across, you shouldn't even bother posting it. So get off your high horse before people go out of their way to call you out, because with an attitude like that, they will. I'm taking the high road because I don't need to insult someone to get a point across. Maybe you should learn to do that as well.
> 
> *</Unsubbed>*


WRONG >> >I THANKED YOU FOR PHASE INFORMATION MID Reply... GUESS YOU DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO READ IT BECAUSE YOU KNOW SO MUCH WITH YOUR INFLATED KNOW EVERYTHING ATTITUDE... MY GUESS IS YOU ARE 30 SOMETHING. YOU MAY WANT TO ACTUALLY READ THE WHOLE REPLY BEFORE YOU COMMENT. ALSO, MOST OF YOUR REPLY WAS 98% RANT AND ONLY 2% REAL INFORMATION AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I ALLUEDED TO IN MY REPLY YOU DIDN'T FULLY READ... YOU REALLY ARE AN UNSELFAWARE INFLATED JACKHOLE.

LOL< Again, it's not an IMPROPER use of English. .. I was on my iPad Air 2 getting horrible lag because I was in email editing it. But thanks for the WOW troll it shows your intellect and assumptions again... You should have been able to ascertain that by my comment about being on the iPad Air 2... Perhaps you did not read down that far because complex wording hurst you lo... And also, most people short hand on forums. lol I am at my computer now and I cleaned up the post quick draw.. You may have wanted to wait before you pulled the English trigger LMAO.. It's also pronounced GRAMMAR when it's in print Jack Hole! (My mother was an English teacher and my father a travel writter so your assumptions really are hilarious)

And personally, you are the one that got your ethical panties in a wad because I mentioned credentials when someone made a back handed comment about skill... Is not a common Industry practice to show one's credentials when Skill is in question? And as stated before, he should have chosen the word "Knowledge" instead of skill, it applies better. I think you are the one that thought you were being a champion of truth and patting yourself on the back for squashing someone's credentials because you think you are high and mighty with your compsci degree >>. bullpucky ... When you were just touching a computer in your 3rd year I was working as a Lab aid in Mac Labs, Unix Labs and A+ labs my first 3 quarters... lmao you are right not to mention your compsci degeree to a hardware guy.



Caring1 said:


> Don't worry about it Peche, some people treat every post like a pissing contest, pity he's facing the wind.



Yeah and some people in post come to support their friends even when they make mistakes and won't admit it.


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## sneekypeet (Mar 19, 2015)

@RigRebel Why would you thank my post, then immediately triple post again? EDIt, make that a quad post!
@ everyone else, help or move along, nobody cares what you think about a member, either you are here to help or you aren't.

Last public warning to everyone, stay on topic, and stick to the TOS.


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## RigRebel (Mar 19, 2015)

sneekypeet said:


> @RigRebel Why would you thank my post, then immediately triple post again? EDIt, make that a quad post!
> @ everyone else, help or move along, nobody cares what you think about a member, either you are here to help or you aren't.
> 
> Last public warning to everyone, stay on topic, and stick to the TOS.


I am repling individually to each ...


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## sneekypeet (Mar 19, 2015)

RigRebel said:


> I am repling individually to each ...



And that is frowned upon, please follow the guidance I gave above.


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