# Prosthetics or Bioregeneration



## Fourstaff (May 21, 2011)

I thought it is a bit odd that people have not created a thread like this (at least with my horribad searching skills), so I created one. 

If you ever lose a part of your body in the future do you want to regrow that part of your body or are you going to use a mechanical part instead, like Adam Jensen from the upcoming Deus Ex: Human Revolution? Given the rate of advancement in both fields, I think its plausible that in 20 years time, we will be given the option of having either (but will cost you an arm and a leg, no pun intended). 

I will take bioregeneration over mechanical hands, less hassle.

Edit: I noticed that people are just voting and not discussing, if possible, can we do a bit of discussion too?


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## Frick (May 21, 2011)

I want both. Regeneration plus enhanced legs.


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## AphexDreamer (May 21, 2011)

I voted regen cause I would like to have my natural body parts, with natural feelings. 

But I'd change my vote if the mechanical arms or legs would provide extra strength or speed or hight.


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## Black Panther (May 21, 2011)

Bioregeneration. In the same way as a gecko which loses its tail grows it back on.


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## Fourstaff (May 21, 2011)

No one wants to have an arm with a built in gun, or fingers doubling up as Swiss army knives? Do note that with regeneration, there will be months if not years of therapy to get it in order.


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## Black Panther (May 21, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> Do note that with regeneration, there will be months if not years of therapy to get it in order.



Oh, didn't know that geckos needed that to get their regenerated tail functioning...


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## Swamp Monster (May 21, 2011)

Regeneration preferred, but if mechanical parts can give me the same feelings + improved strength then I could vote mechanical parts too.


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## Fourstaff (May 21, 2011)

Black Panther said:


> Oh, didn't know that geckos needed that to get their regenerated tail functioning...



Oh yes you do. There are 2 ways of regaining your limb back from regen, one is growing a new one from the stump, another is to grow it in a lab and then graft it to your stump. The first way, you will probably have to train it like when you grow up, regular movement and all. Second way, well, you will need to get used to your new arm. Growing a new arm will get better and better until the point where you will be able to get a new arm just like "your old one", but even then the part where the new one is attached to might need quite a bit of work.

As an extra, will you be willing to sacrifice your current part of the body for a mechanical augmentation? For example, trading one of your eye for one which can take pictures at your command and upload it to Facebook. Or having an eye with night vision, etc.


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## Black Panther (May 21, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> Oh yes you do. There are 2 ways of regaining your limb back from regen, one is growing a new one from the stump, another is to grow it in a lab and then graft it to your stump. The first way, you will probably have to train it like when you grow up, regular movement and all. Second way, well, you will need to get used to your new arm. Growing a new arm will get better and better until the point where you will be able to get a new arm just like "your old one", but even then the part where the new one is attached to might need quite a bit of work.



I wouldn't want something grown in a lab attached to me.

Also, I don't think that growing it from a stump (which is acceptable to me) will be needing training just like when one was a baby. When one is a baby/kid it is the brain which is trained. All the muscles and nerves are there ready for action. Nothing changes, only the brain is the one which has to learn everything. Now in the case of regeneration, the brain's knowledge is already there, so as soon as the arm grows back you can use it perfectly just like the old one. Just like the gecko can use its re-grown tail.... 



Fourstaff said:


> As an extra, will you be willing to sacrifice your current part of the body for a mechanical augmentation? For example, trading one of your eye for one which can take pictures at your command and upload it to Facebook. Or having an eye with night vision, etc.



Umm there I think yes.

As long as that eye functions same as my old one, plus more... I'd prefer a webcam eye with integrated wifi and night-vision. I wouldn't object to a terabyte of storage space either. And to 1080p video capture... 

But only as long as it looks presentable i.e. not like I had a monocular attached to my face. Well, unless that becomes really fashionable perhaps


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## Fourstaff (May 21, 2011)

Black Panther said:


> Also, I don't think that growing it from a stump (which is acceptable to me) will be needing training just like when one was a baby. When one is a baby/kid it is the brain which is trained. All the muscles and nerves are there ready for action. Nothing changes, only the brain is the one which has to learn everything. Now in the case of regeneration, the brain's knowledge is already there, so as soon as the arm grows back you can use it perfectly just like the old one. Just like the gecko can use its re-grown tail....



If you have torn your muscles, broke a bone etc, you will need rehab because you will most likely not use the aforementioned part for some time and the muscles has gone to waste. In the same line, you will need to bring your newly grown body part "up to speed", and for that to happen you will need to actively train the muscles. A gecko can grow a new tail because evolution granted it, and perfected the art of regenerating that part. In our case, we are doing something a bit more artificial, and therefore more intervention will be needed to get it to grow the way we want it to.


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## Bo$$ (May 21, 2011)

I voted mechanical, If science can integrate it fully and make as functional as the real thing then what difference would it make, you would be like the guy from iRobot and there was nothing abnormal about him


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## lilhasselhoffer (May 21, 2011)

One word: biocompatibility.

Using regeneration you've got something 100% biocompatible.  NO rejection, no degradation due to cellular errosion (two types of surface bone cells, osteoblats and osteclasts, one builds and the other destroys), and no replacing the thing in 5 years.

The proposed benefits of increased strength and endurance are there with mechanical systems.  They perform better, but cannot repair themselves.  Getting used to a new mechanical arm would be something you would have to repeat every few years, not to mention making travel an extremely unpleasant affair...

Regrowing does pose a longer process, fraught with potential short term (muscle memory, cellular density) problems.  The difference is that they would likely be overcome around the time that the alternative experiences the second ongoing set of difficulties.

At this time I would undergo regeneration.  If I was 40 I would go prosthetic.  There is a reason both options are being researched.


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## Bo$$ (May 21, 2011)

well the fact that maybe we can have a hybrid of both technologies is a certain possibility


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## KainXS (May 21, 2011)

bio + less cell degredation

hell it would have been possible now if certain groups didn't screw everything up . . . . . . . . .


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## ChewyBrownSuga (May 22, 2011)

For me the future lies in bionics. I dream for the day where I can get rid of a damaged body part and replace it with something superior. Prosthesis have come a great distance to where they are able to simulate human touch. it's only a matter of time to where all walking around with some kind of artificial body part.

What jump started my love of bionics and neuroscience was listening to a man named Kevin Warwick. Those his reason to update the human form are a little out there, his ideas are still brilliant(imo).

So to answer the question I would take an artificial replacement over an organic one ^_^


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## MRCL (May 22, 2011)

Our captain at the army had a prosthetic leg. 3D HELIX or something like that. Basically with a lot of training, it acts as a real leg and one can walk like normal. When I was in the army under his command he had it for less than a year, and wasn't far from walking normal. He lost his leg in a motorcycle accident, and it was amputated just below the waist.

Well if I would ever loose a limb, I think I'd go for a prosthesis. I'd even volunteer for some new stuff to test or something. 

That thing with cyborg eyes Fourstaff brought up - my eyesight sucks so replacing that with an enhanced mechanical duplicate doesn't sound too bad. I'd just swap one eye first tho. And scratch the Facebook feature lol. But basically having a video camera hardwired to your brain sounds not only cool but also very interesting. 

But I try to preserve my natural stuff.


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## Widjaja (May 22, 2011)

I want upgrades!
So prosthetic would be the way for me as long as the prosthetic appears human.

Oh damn I blew my right arm.
Must have overclocked it too high -_-"


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## FordGT90Concept (May 22, 2011)

If we could grow new limbs, it shouldn't be too difficult to increase the muscle cell count and calcium absorption in the bones as well (strong muscles are useless without strong bones).  Prosthetics always have the issues of being unnatural and bioengineering can overcome that better than mechanics.

Basically, bioengineering is ideal but prosthetics have to stand in until bioengineering becomes practical.


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## Bo$$ (May 22, 2011)

Widjaja said:


> I want upgrades!
> So prosthetic would be the way for me as long as the prosthetic appears human.
> 
> Oh damn I blew my right arm.
> Must have overclocked it too high -_-"



overclocking is the key....

someone's sig would be just perfect right now, let me find it
Edit: extract from scaminatix's sig


> True.. mine produces 95W. so with this copper heatsink, i can even pull my cock to 3.6GHz. - de.das.dude
> Careful if you are going to Pull that thing at that frequency with a stock set-up, heat can damage sensitive parts - 95Viper
> scaminatrix is offline Report Post
> Thanks


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## KieX (May 22, 2011)

I vote for mechanical replacements. I strongly wish for a future where the human body becomes redundant and we are able to change/upgrade our mech bodies as necessary. Sort of like evolving and overcoming biological constraints. Till such a time, prosthetics all the way.


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## BinaryMage (May 22, 2011)

I tend to agree with KieX. First of all, we already do regenerate, albeit at a slow pace. Second, even if we did regenerate much faster, mechanical body parts would be far superior. Even if they aren't now, just consider the pace of technological progress versus the pace of evolution. If we were mechanical, at least partly, our bodies could advance as fast as our technological knowledge and capability did.


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## Fourstaff (May 22, 2011)

Yeah, but you will need clunky batteries for mechanical parts. Unless you have some micro nuclear generator or next gen power storage, I cannot see that problem being negated.


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## BinaryMage (May 22, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> Yeah, but you will need clunky batteries for mechanical parts. Unless you have some micro nuclear generator or next gen power storage, I cannot see that problem being negated.



Micro nuclear generator? Not as far-fetched as you might think, but I agree unlikely during our lifetimes. But there are plenty of other ways to obtain power that do not require "clunky batteries". First of all, the mechanical components could convert human fat (glucose, which is already produced by the human body) into energy. There are other options including solar power, kinetic energy generation (generating energy by the movement of the body), and probably many more that haven't been invented yet.


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## KieX (May 22, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> Yeah, but you will need clunky batteries for mechanical parts. Unless you have some micro nuclear generator or next gen power storage, I cannot see that problem being negated.



It's not like your muscles would need to carry the weight if you have mech limbs.

Not as ergonomic but right now there is an exoskeleton that would negate that weight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdK2y3lphmE


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## Fourstaff (May 22, 2011)

Fair enough. I have a feeling that soldiers and people working with high risk of losing their body parts will prefer mechanical limbs and augmentations, whereas people working in "softer" industries will go for regen. Probably we might see something in between, for example titanium bones but fat and muscle otherwise.


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## BinaryMage (May 22, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> Fair enough. I have a feeling that soldiers and people working with high risk of losing their body parts will prefer mechanical limbs and augmentations, whereas people working in "softer" industries will go for regen. Probably we might see something in between, for example titanium bones but fat and muscle otherwise.



It could certainly happen that way. I think we also need to figure in cost. Cutting-edge mechanical limbs are likely to be expensive, though once they've been around for awhile, older models will probably become affordable. Regeneration will probably require some sort of DNA modification, which probably won't end up being that costly. (All that is necessary is an artificial virus that will go through the body modifying the DNA)


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## Bo$$ (May 22, 2011)

you can harness the power of the human nerves to create voltages to power the arm when it is directly controlled and sort of shut down/remain still when not being controlled


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## Fourstaff (May 22, 2011)

Bo$$ said:


> you can harness the power of the human nerves to create voltages to power the arm when it is directly controlled and sort of shut down/remain still when not being controlled



Human nerves do not produce enough energy to power a mechanical arm.


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## Velvet Wafer (May 22, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> Human nerves do not produce enough energy to power a mechanical arm.



indeed, the energy is only enough, for controlling selfpowered prosthetics... much like in a mosfet


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## Bo$$ (May 22, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> Human nerves do not produce enough energy to power a mechanical arm.



Well maybe one day that could be possible, but in retrospect that is an absurd idea, although that is best way for them to be controlled


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## kid41212003 (May 22, 2011)

Bio-Mecha FTW!


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## RejZoR (May 22, 2011)

There were supposedly implants that could be powered from carbohydrates (body sugar).
But still nowhere near enough to power entirely mechanical limbs. It was more meant for pacemakers, artificial optical receptors and so on.


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## ChewyBrownSuga (May 22, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> Yeah, but you will need clunky batteries for mechanical parts. Unless you have some micro nuclear generator or next gen power storage, I cannot see that problem being negated.



Actual the Proto 1 just had a battery back that you would carry around your hip. It's not streamline but far from clunky, and the next Proto is going to have a lithium battery that can be removed for daily charging. National  Geographic did an issue on bionics last year(http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/01/bionics/fischman-text) I still read it from time to time at school.


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## razaron (May 22, 2011)

Nanobots that both strengthen and help with healing. Like a built in crysis suit (or spiderman unlimited).


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## micropage7 (May 23, 2011)

or like wolverine, if he hurt the wound will recover by itself?


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## TheMailMan78 (May 23, 2011)

I voted mechanical arm. My right arm isnt enough sometimes. Plus If I can turn off its feeling its like someone else is touching me. WIN!


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## REAYTH (May 23, 2011)

a tight rubber band around the wrist and a few minutes to let it take effect serves the same purpose and a fraction of the price of a mechanical arm.


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## Fourstaff (May 23, 2011)

TheMailMan78 said:


> I voted mechanical arm. My right arm isnt enough sometimes. Plus If I can turn off its feeling its like someone else is touching me. WIN!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-VJLz65QhM


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## Bo$$ (May 23, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-VJLz65QhM



i was waiting for someone to post this


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## SaiZo (May 23, 2011)

I voted regen. Maybe because I would like to be almost immortal?
However, it would be nice with an extra pair of arms and hands, could do so much more things then..


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## Velvet Wafer (May 24, 2011)

razaron said:


> Nanobots that both strengthen and help with healing. Like a built in crysis suit (or spiderman unlimited).



Sadly, the Crysis suits, are irremovable once you have put them on... the person that wields them, can take deadly wounds, fractures, organic damage and so on... and would normally die too. 
But, as the Suits were made of Alien Techology from the beginning, they were able to grow into the wounds of the mortally hit bearer, effectively making him an unwilling, and at first, unknowing symbiote 
(but kept him alive for that)... "posthuman Soldiers, making the ultimative sacrifice", as Hargreave states it....


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