# vBulletin, Mailserver and FTP recommendations please



## lemonadesoda (Dec 13, 2009)

Can anyone make software suggestions for a simple, low user headcount, server, for a small business setup, that will run the following:

1./ vBulletin with CMS (v4.0), and
2./ A mailserver with a web client, and
3./ FTP, preferably one that can FTP over HTTP, so that it is accessible through a webbrowser when there are FTP port blocking firewalls on the client side.

On either:
1./ XP,or
2./ W2k3, or
3./ linux (try to avoid)

It will be running on an Atom 330, and total hardware+software budget is targeted at $1000.

I would prefer the cost of the mailserver and FTP server to be free or low. Exchange is way too expensive. Kerio server is also over budget but could be a fall back if nothing else is found. It's a bit overkill. I dont need multiplatform connectivity or calendaring. Atmail is free for 5 users, and has a nice web client, but is linux based. I would really like to stick with windows, which is where my experience is, otherwise I will "have to l34rn" Linux which I want to avoid; I've got limited time.

Under strong pressure from u guys, I would also consider something like SBS.


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## Disparia (Dec 14, 2009)

Don't have much experience with servers other than Exchange, so my only cheap suggestion would be a web front-end such as SquirrelMail or Horde on top of a suitable and free mailserver. Haven't looked in a couple years, so there may be better front-ends out there now.

SBS is certainly overkill, but has Exchange/OWA as well as the OS at a price that doesn't completely murder the budget. The 2003 edition would run on A330/945/2GB, but I'd lean towards A330/ION/4GB to give 2008 some extra breathing room, if you went that way.


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## Bot (Dec 14, 2009)

Jizzler said:


> SBS is certainly overkill, but has Exchange/OWA as well as the OS at a price that doesn't completely murder the budget. The 2003 edition would run on A330/945/2GB, but I'd lean towards A330/ION/4GB to give 2008 some extra breathing room, if you went that way.



i like the hardware suggestions here but you need to double the ram for each. sbs 2003 needs 4gb at least and sbs 2008 needs 8gb at least. exchange itself will eat up 2gb quickly.

i'd rather go with the cheaper sbs 2003 and invest the rest in a faster processor
running server 2003 on an atom is possible but will not be very exciting, running sbs 2003 on an atom will be rather painful. 

you could still use a web host for email and even ftp, while you run the site and board from home

i assume that you attempt to host from home. keep in mind that you most likely need a static ip address and with the added traffic and exposure, you need more security. 
your isp also has to allow port 25 traffic. not all do


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## Disparia (Dec 14, 2009)

Oh I know how painful it would be for someone like me. But Lemon loves his Atom's and those are the RAM limits for those platforms.

Though it shouldn't be complete torture... back in the day I had a couple Prestonia Xeons with 2GB and SBS 2K3. Exchange is going to be Exchange - grab as much free RAM as possible, even if the entire mail store fits twice over 

Perhaps ION/4GB and SBS 2003 (and a nice fast disk/array). Anyhoo, this is his least favorable option, so we'll have to wait and see where he'd like to go.


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## Deleted member 3 (Dec 14, 2009)

What are you planning to do with vBulletin in a business? vBulletin isn't free, can't you use phpbb?

Exchange is easy to integrate in a business environment compared to many other solutions. If it's just for a few people squirrelmail might be an option, personally I also like Kerio which also integrates into the AD. Though since you have a low budget I'd still try to get SBS running, it works great for small-medium companies. It scales pretty well in most scenarios.

Filezilla is a fine FTP server, looks a lot like the good old Gene6 (Bulletproof). I haven't bothered with FTP via HTTP in ages, last time I did they worked via PHP/Java and the likes, I'm guessing you can find a freeware PHP script for it.



So short answer, use the available fungs for SBS, go for free alternatives in the other areas. Also, depending on what the server will be doing you might just want to build/buy a small machine that allows you to upgrade it instead of the Atom. It's always nice if you can just swap the CPU and upgrade the memory and don't have to reinstall the server, which is a crap job. (SBS won't go past 4GB RAM though edit: 2008 does, 32GB, so forget that comment)


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## erocker (Dec 14, 2009)

lemonadesoda said:


> Can anyone make software suggestions for a simple, low user headcount, server, for a small business setup, that will run the following:
> 
> 1./ vBulletin with CMS (v4.0), and
> 2./ A mailserver with a web client, and
> ...



If you do want to pay, but want cheap and easy, go with a cheaper plan from hostgator or godaddy, something like that. I pay 8 bucks a month, don't need my own server and can access everything from any computer.


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## lemonadesoda (Dec 14, 2009)

Thanks for the comments so far. I think I should explain a little more, to help you understand why the proposed setup, and the environment of use.

1./ Pentium 3 systems were quite happy hosting Notes and Exchange servers for hundreds of users. We will not have more than 20 people. An Atom 330 has quite enough horsepower for this sort of stuff.

2./ We dont need a dual xeon server here.  This thing really isnt doing much more than one of the better NAS systems, like a QNAP. 

3./ The server will be in the same room where I work.  I want something silent, as in dead silent. It will be 24/7. Wasted CPU, wasted power, is wasted $.

4./ Why local and not hosted? Because 95% of the work, probably more,  will be done locally, creating, editing, printing, files on the server, or creating records/posts in vB.  5% of the time, I, or colleagues, will be working offsite, need access the data, read instructions, and occasionally answer or post stuff back. I want 95% working time to be instant, on local LAN, and the same server to be holding documents that are strictly private as well as colleague-public. I want consolidation on one server, and not have to run multiple systems.

5./ Why vBulletin? We run lots of small projects. We run lots of training programs. We operate under ISO 9001 principles. I want the process documented and an audit trail. No project management /groupware /CMS system I have seen or demoed gives me the simplicity or the trackability for* what we need*.  vB could "adapt" to our purposes IF we could assign posting templates (like evernote) and have an access control permissions system that was a little more flexible. However, we can make it fit for the moment.  I prefer vB over phpBB due to look and feel, the new CMS options, and excellent community/addins and better permissions. Actually, that's the key one. 

6./ What about basecamp and ilk? Don't like the fact it is hosted only. And it is expensie. Like I said, I want local access to be fast, and I need to manage confidentiality issues, esp. gvt contracts.  The people who own software like this really are very greedy in thier expensive hosted service only... trying to milk you every month... but also rather naiive in that they think a business is going to put business critical data up on their servers? They quote a client list that I dont believe... or at least... these companies DONT USE IT FOR RUNNING THEIR BUSINESS... they MIGHT use it for the occasional non-critical-social-project-commuication-lala-secretarties-party.  But definately NOT business critical confidential stuff. Whereas, with vB, they sell it, not monthly fees,and I can install and lock down and know the data is here, and who has access.

7./ What about Notes? Perfect except for two things. Too expensive to set up. Too expensive to administer.

WORKFLOW description.

1./ Email server for managing communication across 20 people.

2./ FTP server for sharing data. FTP over HTTP because many of our clients, and also EVERY BLXXDY 3G internet provider in this country, and most hotspots, BLOCKS FTP protocol and port 21/22.  So we have to get the data to the clients over HTTP.  We had a perfectly working FTP server with nice ACL system that was fine for office and home-office login... until we discovered, slowly, that more and more of our clients were blocking FTP, and that we can't even get FTP over 3G services. (USB dongle keystick when on the road).

3./ vB for "project communication". Each project has a manager. Manager setups up project. Project staff, up to 3 people, are assigned to the project. They can read and post. Project definition posted. Project plan and calendar posted. If training, agenda and participants posted. Project staff do work. Use posting for project specific correspondence. Documents attached. Scanned documents, feedbacks uploaded. Project completed. Closed by manager.  ISO 9001. Document trail.

That's all the server needs to do! That simple. Any further suggestions on how to host those workflow support technologies greatly appreciated


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## Bot (Dec 15, 2009)

well, if you go with sbs 2003, you have sharepoint services included which pretty much does all of this and is already included and is well integrated. no need to shell out for vbulletin even.
sharepoint has a message board and more and allows for document sharing as well as upload and download and online editing of most common file types. 
IIS already has a FTP server with FTP over HTTP as well


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 15, 2009)

If you are not going to use Active Directory, XP Pro will do fine.  Just make sure not to "sell" it as a "server."  It is a "computer" that "serves." 

I say XP Pro because then you'll have the option of IIS HTTP/FTP if you want it.


Instead of vBulletin, have you considered a wiki?  It keeps record of every single change and it has far more formatting tools than a forum.  As far as I know, it is free (donation based).


I would pass on Atom and get a Xeon or Opteron processor.  They are high-reliability built for 24/7 operation.  What needs to determine if two-way is necessary or not is how bad of shape you'll be in should the processor fail in a one-way system.  If the whole world is going to come down on you, it might be worth getting a two-way system.  Definitely stick to dual-cores either way.  Quad cores, (except maybe AMD 45nm) run hot (= either huge HSFs or loud fans).


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## lemonadesoda (Dec 15, 2009)

Thanks for the info bot. 

*Sharepoint? *
Let me tell you what I hate about sharepoint:

"What is SharePoint?

Microsoft Office SharePoint Server 2007 is an integrated suite of server capabilities that can help improve organizational effectiveness by providing comprehensive content management and enterprise search, accelerating shared business processes, and facilitating information-sharing across boundaries for better business insight. Additionally, this collaboration and content management server provides IT professionals and developers with the platform and tools they need for server administration, application extensibility, and interoperability."

Fact 1 - I learned nothing. What the hell does it do? Replace the words Sharepoint server in the above paragraph, with the words Excel, or Lotus Notes, or VoIP, or new fax machine, or new secretary, or sharing directors and employees toilets, and the words would still apply.

That's something I really dont like about Microsoft. They try to sell using "enabling" sales language. _'This software will enable you to work better'_, type rubbish. OK, OK. What does it do? _'Well it will enable your team to be more effective'_. Er, how? _'By making them more efficient.'_ AHHH.BANGHEAD. WTF, it is an email program? A spreadsheet? A database?

MS will NEVER sell Sharepoint based on the crap on their website. Like the whitepapers showing efficiency usability statistics. But never nowhere not even once do they say what it does, how it works, or show screenshots or a video in action.

Sharepoint MIGHT BE BRILLIANT... if you have seen it or used it. But if you havent, it is a EUR 2000 piece of mystery.

Fact 2 - that I dont like about Sharepoint. EUR 2000 just for the sharepoint license bit of the server I want to set up. Well out of budget.


*IIS already has a FTP server with FTP over HTTP as well*
FTP over HTTP is "free" in IIS. Bah. I missed that.  Is there an inbuilt ACL/permissions control? Or is it based on Active Directory, so I need to set up AD and buy client access licenses for each "external" user and client?


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## lemonadesoda (Dec 15, 2009)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Instead of vBulletin, have you considered a wiki?  It keeps record of every single change and it has far more formatting tools than a forum.  As far as I know, it is free (donation based).



In this instance, a wiki isnt appropriate. That's nearly like saying... dont use email to communicate with your project colleagues; use a wiki. There are confidentiality issues, and I dont think a wiki has an appropriate ACL/permissions system.



> I would pass on Atom and get a Xeon or Opteron processor.


Budget. Scope. Stop overspeccing this thing you datacentre-adminstrator-comptroller-you. This is a tiny-weeny 20 user account system, with probably an average of 0.1 person online at any time, and a likely maximum online at anytime of 3.

In this instance, 24/7 refers to electricity/noise costs, not 99.999999% reliability requirements.

Context: This _computer-that-serves _ will be replacing a buffalo linkstation NAS + FTP. The new bits are the messaging board and bringing the email "home".


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## Bot (Dec 15, 2009)

in sbs 2003, sharepoint is already included. you can also get the older version for free
there is good info about it here
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsserver/sharepoint/bb684453.aspx

it looks like a website but is a web portal. basically in the left you have a menu list, in the middle is your content and on the left are links etc. however, you change and alter the look as you please.
it has a bulletin or discussion board, calendar, task list, etc you can share pictures and documents and even publicizes and stores emails on it but this is just a basic setup. there are many templates you can add to it to enable additional functions.
here is an example of my page. i didn't touch it yet, so thats what it would look like freshly installed




edit: and yes AD and IIS handle all permission control

edit2: some more info on sharepoint
http://sharepoint.microsoft.com/try-it/Pages/demos.aspx

oh even better .. wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SharePoint


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## FordGT90Concept (Dec 15, 2009)

Anything on the web isn't secure.  You are right that you would have to use an extension to MediaWiki to get the extra controls on users but I think it would be worth it.  For example, this is an extension that adds ACL functionality:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PermissionACL

A whole list can be found here:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Category:User_rights_extensions


The cheapest available one-way Opteron is $50 and 90nm (100+ watt).  The cheapest one-way Xeon is this  3.0 GHz Wolfdale at $180 (65 watt).


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## lemonadesoda (Dec 15, 2009)

Thanks for the info about ACL extensions.  I'm definitely going to take a look again at the wiki with ACL.  But I really want to have a "transaction record" where it is clear WHO did WHAT and WHEN. Typical case, project manager needs to issue x, y, z at the start. Based on a task list, project staff then need to do a, b, c and post the files or scans back.   vB would work, IFF there existed an improved ACL. Cost of vB is relatively cheap.


I think you are probably right about the Xeon being the better platform.  Funny you mentioned it... I've eyed it up as an option many times.  Reason I did't in the end is that the Atom 330 is dirt cheap, essentially the CPU is "free" given the cost of the mainboard.  AND, I've got a 1U rack case I'd like to put it in... and I can't keep a Xeon cool on passive with a low profile heatsink. Perhaps time to consider a 2U space, and also underclocking that Xeon.  Running it at 200FSB might be an idea.

Alternatively, I might start with the Atom now and migrate to the new westmere xeon L5609 (1.86 GHz, 40W), possibly underclocked again, leaving the original Atom to run backups, host install files and WSUS, etc.


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