# The US Senate Goes to War Over Crypto Taxation



## 64K (Aug 7, 2021)

Cynthia Lummis (R-Wy.) and Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) filed an amedment refining and scaling back the rule’s definition of a broker, including carve-outs for node validators (miners), software developers and wallet developers. That amendment, though not perfect, received widespread praise from industry figures including CoinShares Chief Strategy Officer Meltom advisors and Jerry Brito, of lobbying group Coin Center.









						The US Senate Goes to War Over Crypto Taxation
					

With two competing amendments and pressure from the White House and Treasury, crypto taxation is suddenly the crux of the massive infrastructure bill.




					www.coindesk.com


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## R-T-B (Aug 11, 2021)

It's also getting a large amount of writein support from small time miners, who can't possibly be expected to reasonably comply with some of the reporting requirements the more heavyhanded version puts forth.

I hope the revised version is the one that passes.  It makes far more sense


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## DeathtoGnomes (Aug 11, 2021)

Ted Cruz (R,Texas?) was for this revision, I think.



> University of Chicago tax specialist Daniel Hemel reviewed the two proposals last night and concluded the main difference is the Warner-Portman-Sinema amendment *is narrower*. *It specifically protects proof-of-work miners and wallet developers, but not protocol developers.*


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## R-T-B (Aug 11, 2021)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> Ted Cruz (R,Texas?) was for this revision, I think.


Yeah.  Color me amused I agree with him.


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## LFaWolf (Aug 12, 2021)

I supposed that there were some more miners that migrated from China to Texas? I read that in the news somewhere.


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## R-T-B (Aug 12, 2021)

LFaWolf said:


> I supposed that there were some more miners that migrated from China to Texas? I read that in the news somewhere.


Stateside mining is taking up the Chinese slack but I'd be surprised if Texas is the place they are doing it.  They aren't known for cheap reliable electric, are they?

Typically the PNW is king here.


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## Hardcore Games (Aug 13, 2021)

Mining is a waste of power so its not a green industry by any stretch


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## Space Lynx (Aug 13, 2021)

none of this will matter, Earth is on track of mass famine/crop failures and mass economic collapse (along with that collapse will be the internet so your funny money won't matter either), we underestimated climate change by a lot. it's too late now. enjoy the next ten years, it's about all we will have from my calculations, then we will see $15 loaves of bread at grocery store, and are stomachs growling from time to time.


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## Rithsom (Aug 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> none of this will matter, Earth is on track of mass famine/crop failures and mass economic collapse (along with that collapse will be the internet so your funny money won't matter either), we underestimated climate change by a lot. it's too late now. enjoy the next ten years, it's about all we will have from my calculations, then we will see $15 loaves of bread at grocery store, and are stomachs growling from time to time.



Although the situation you described would be quite literally Hell on Earth (worse than any war/depression/plague in history), I kind of want it to happen just to see the human-induced climate change naysayers eat their words.

Anyway, if things really do get that bad, you can be sure that crypto mining will be banned... along with real mining, new construction projects, driving, air conditioning, and much more. Basically anything that would contribute to CO2 emissions and is not necessary for survival.


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## Space Lynx (Aug 13, 2021)

Rithsom said:


> Although the situation you described would be quite literally Hell on Earth (worse than any war/depression/plague in history), I kind of want it to happen just to see the human-induced climate change naysayers eat their words.



that wouldn't be enough to convince them, they would just say climate shifts happened many times over the billions of years of earth's formation, that's what they say now, it won't change. even though the data specifically shows since the industrial evolution began (even before then with mass clearings of forests) a sharp sharp incline 

it's whatever.  just enjoy your life before the chaos comes, that's all we can do now.


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## R-T-B (Aug 13, 2021)

I don't share your pessimistic outlook if proper action were taken, but I do share your pessimism on humans abilitiy to act...  so same end game.


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## ThrashZone (Aug 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> none of this will matter, Earth is on track of mass famine/crop failures and mass economic collapse (along with that collapse will be the internet so your funny money won't matter either), we underestimated climate change by a lot. it's too late now. enjoy the next ten years, it's about all we will have from my calculations, then we will see $15 loaves of bread at grocery store, and are stomachs growling from time to time.


Hi,
Much better chance of chemical warfare doing that as we've already got a taste of that with covid.


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## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> none of this will matter, Earth is on track of mass famine/crop failures and mass economic collapse (along with that collapse will be the internet so your funny money won't matter either), we underestimated climate change by a lot. it's too late now. enjoy the next ten years, it's about all we will have from my calculations, then we will see $15 loaves of bread at grocery store, and are stomachs growling from time to time.



I can really see a reverse of holidays coming, going to cooler countries to holiday instead of the opposite. Britain is warmer than it was, but still no where near what is happening in the US west, Greece, Italy, etc etc



R-T-B said:


> I don't share your pessimistic outlook if proper action were taken, but I do share your pessimism on humans abilitiy to act...  so same end game.



Basically greed and stupidity is gonna end us, imo we deserve it. I just hope we don't take out the Earths population of animals with us.


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## Space Lynx (Aug 13, 2021)

Gruffalo.Soldier said:


> I can really see a reverse of holidays coming, going to cooler countries to holiday instead of the opposite. Britain is warmer than it was, but still no where near what is happening in the US west, Greece, Italy, etc etc
> 
> 
> 
> Basically greed and stupidity is gonna end us, imo we deserve it. I just hope we don't take out the Earths population of animals with us.



Most humans won't have the skillset to survive long term, some billionaires already have bunkers made to last decades, but the Earth will take a long time to recover, and they might last decades, but I don't see them lasting long enough for the human species to survive. I do believe Earth will recover and some species of animals will survive, but not many as the food chain is very delicate ( we still don't know the ramifications of millions of clams and mussels dying earlier this in Western Canada as that 125 faren wave was unprecedented)

I expect in 500+ years the Earth will be human free and a new species will be forming slowly, with the little that remains, but Earth will heal. That is the beautiful thing about physics, the Cosmos, Earth, etc... it doesn't matter if we are dumb and ruin it, once we are gone, the Cosmos will toss the dice once again. It's very beautiful really, because you are right, we don't deserve it. We focus only on short term greed in all sectors.


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## R-T-B (Aug 13, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> Much better chance of chemical warfare doing that as we've already got a taste of that with covid.


Chemical weapons != biological weapons.

The topic here however is not climate change or some variation of kill all humans, it's the crypto bill in the senate, so let's get back to it.


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## ThrashZone (Aug 13, 2021)

R-T-B said:


> Chemical weapons != biological weapons.
> 
> The topic here however is not climate change or some variation of kill all humans, it's the crypto bill in the senate, so let's get back to it.


Hi,
Yeah I was giving current events reality verses the same old same old climate change.... stuff.
Funniest was the ten year prediction lol


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## Deleted member 24505 (Aug 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Most humans won't have the skillset to survive long term, some billionaires already have bunkers made to last decades, but the Earth will take a long time to recover, and they might last decades, but I don't see them lasting long enough for the human species to survive. I do believe Earth will recover and some species of animals will survive, but not many as the food chain is very delicate ( we still don't know the ramifications of millions of clams and mussels dying earlier this in Western Canada as that 125 faren wave was unprecedented)
> 
> I expect in 500+ years the Earth will be human free and a new species will be forming slowly, with the little that remains, but Earth will heal. That is the beautiful thing about physics, the Cosmos, Earth, etc... it doesn't matter if we are dumb and ruin it, once we are gone, the Cosmos will toss the dice once again. It's very beautiful really, because you are right, we don't deserve it. We focus only on short term greed in all sectors.



At least we won't survive long enough to figure out sub light travel, to enable us to go fuck up another planet.


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## Space Lynx (Aug 13, 2021)

Gruffalo.Soldier said:


> At least we won't survive long enough to figure out sub light travel, to enable us to go fuck up another planet.



This is probably a good thing yes. Hopefully the species that come after us will have a larger cortex in the brain and a smaller limbic system.


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## ThrashZone (Aug 13, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> This is probably a good thing yes. Hopefully the species that come after us will have a larger cortex in the brain and a smaller limbic system.


Hi,
They'll likely just be healthier


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## Space Lynx (Aug 13, 2021)

ThrashZone said:


> Hi,
> They'll likely just be healthier



This is very possible too. We will have to go back to village life for a long time, those that are left that is. Probably a lot of underground cavern type living as well.

Then, after another 1000 years, legend becomes myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the next age comes... and the mistakes will be repeated and Earth will destroy them too.

But none of this matters, all we can do is enjoy life for the time being and whatever comes comes. We will adapt or die, simple as that. Personally, I think building houses halfway into the ground or more with like a moat like system to get rid of flooding water built around it - would save tremendous amount of energy in cooling/air conditioning.  Heat is easier to do than air conditioning, especially if the dwelling units are built smaller so to speak.


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## MentalAcetylide (Aug 14, 2021)

They just need to leave crypto, by itself, alone. The taxes should only apply if they use it to buy something and/or exchange it for fiat(i.e. cash in). It makes no sense to tax something that, while it can grow or shrink in value, isn't really accepted as currency. Given the risks involved with crypto & some of the stunts people have tried to pull, they need to be more concerned about regulating it rather than taxing it.


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## Space Lynx (Aug 14, 2021)

MentalAcetylide said:


> They just need to leave crypto, by itself, alone. The taxes should only apply if they use it to buy something and/or exchange it for fiat(i.e. cash in). It makes no sense to tax something that, while it can grow or shrink in value, isn't really accepted as currency. Given the risks involved with crypto & some of the stunts people have tried to pull, they need to be more concerned about regulating it rather than taxing it.



Government taxes everything whether you like it or not. Welcome to big boys league crypto toddlers.


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## MentalAcetylide (Aug 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> Government taxes everything whether you like it or not. Welcome to big boys league crypto toddlers.


Oh there should be taxes, no doubt. We just need to make sure the government isn't trying to tax the same pot two or three times unless it changes ownership. For example, if you invest $5k income that you've already paid tax on into crypto, and you gain a whopping 50% return on your investment, you get taxed on that $2.5k rather than $7.5k. If they start a double taxing nonsense scheme on this, eventually they're going to start doing it on other stuff, which I'm sure they're probably already doing.


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## Space Lynx (Aug 14, 2021)

MentalAcetylide said:


> Oh there should be taxes, no doubt. We just need to make sure the government isn't trying to tax the same pot two or three times unless it changes ownership. For example, if you invest $5k income that you've already paid tax on into crypto, and you gain a whopping 50% return on your investment, you get taxed on that $2.5k rather than $7.5k. If they start a double taxing nonsense scheme on this, eventually they're going to start doing it on other stuff, which I'm sure they're probably already doing.



When you buy a used car, you pay sales tax on that car. Even though the original owner paid the high MSRP sales tax when bought new. A car gets sold a dozen times, the new owner still has to pay sales tax.

Government always gets a piece of the pie, that's all I was saying, you better get used to it.


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## RealKGB (Aug 14, 2021)

lynx29 said:


> This is very possible too. We will have to go back to village life for a long time, those that are left that is. Probably a lot of underground cavern type living as well.
> 
> Then, after another 1000 years, legend becomes myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the next age comes... and the mistakes will be repeated and Earth will destroy them too.
> 
> But none of this matters, all we can do is enjoy life for the time being and whatever comes comes. We will adapt or die, simple as that. Personally, I think building houses halfway into the ground or more with like a moat like system to get rid of flooding water built around it - would save tremendous amount of energy in cooling/air conditioning.  Heat is easier to do than air conditioning, especially if the dwelling units are built smaller so to speak.


Maybe life will be similar to how it was portrayed in The Village of Sparks?
It's the second book in The City of Ember series. Skip book 3, it's utter crap.

Anyway, in that book series it's ~150 years in the future (I think) and Earth's civilization was mostly destroyed by a bunch of wars and a few other things. Long story short people are living in villages, but some pre-giant war thingy towns, houses, etc. stuff remained so people built things from that. Kind of like if you handed people in the 1700s an abandoned small town that got raided.


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## R-T-B (Aug 14, 2021)

I wish you guys could stick to discussing the legislation and not the imminient doom that is creeping into every thread now.


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## Hardcore Games (Aug 24, 2021)

I have not heard of anything in recent legislation but I suspect it will find its way into a bill maybe into the winter after the mid terms


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## MentalAcetylide (Aug 24, 2021)

More often than not(at least nowadays), congress passing bills is their way of scratching each others' backs and making it look like they're actually doing something useful. If they would enforce existing laws & plug up the numerous loopholes, they wouldn't have to introduce new laws(which equates to more complexities & potentially introduces even more loopholes). FFS, its like every congress member wants their face on a bill, ha-cha-cha-cha!


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