# PSU Help! Are there different types of 24-pin PSUs that are not compatible with ATX mobos?



## Bluescreendeath (Jun 27, 2018)

So I have 2x proprietary Delta 475watt PSUs from the HPZ400 series. 

Basically this thing: Delta DPS-475CB-1A
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Delta-DP...cAAOSwj0RbJ7B-

It comes with a 24 pin motherboard cable, 4 pin cpu cable, and a 6 pin GPU cable. I tried to plug this into a standard 24 pin Asus 1155 motherboard - I see a blue flash of light but the motherboard doesn't light up.

I tried to connect this to a Z230 (with a 18 to 24 pin cable)...nothing boots up.

I troubleshoot with my Antec 500watt with both the Asus computer and HP Z230 - and the Antec works for both computers. The Asus motherboard boots up immediately, while the Antec 500 works with the 24 pin to 18 pin adapter and boots up the HP Z230.

Does anyone know why both of my Delta 475 watts not work? Are they dead? Or do certain PSUs have some weird frequency/hertz/ATX spec/etc that doesn't work for standard motherboards despite being 24 pins?


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## looniam (Jun 27, 2018)

ah, you said it yourself::


> So I have 2x *proprietary* Delta 475watt PSUs from the *HPZ400 series*.


http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1760414/475w-psu-power-gigabyte-gtx-760.html#r11312434


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## Good Guru (Jun 27, 2018)

I know that since haswell some power supplies need to be "haswell compatible" for the low c states not to crash this I think would be since lga1150?

Hope this helps!


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## Bluescreendeath (Jun 27, 2018)

looniam said:


> ah, you said it yourself::
> http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1760414/475w-psu-power-gigabyte-gtx-760.html#r11312434



Thanks. It's weird, because my HP Z230 18 pin motherboard works perfectly fine with standard 24 pin ATX PSUs when I use an 18 to 24 pin connector.

So despite being 24 pin, they have some proprietary wiring system that doesn't work?



Good Guru said:


> I know that since haswell some power supplies need to be "haswell compatible" for the low c states not to crash this I think would be since lga1150?
> 
> Hope this helps!



I tested this in an 1155 ivy bridge and 1150 haswell pc. It looks like it's some weird proprietary wiring as looniam mentioned.


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## looniam (Jun 27, 2018)

Bluescreendeath said:


> Thanks. It's weird, because my HP Z230 18 pin motherboard works perfectly fine with standard 24 pin ATX PSUs when I use an 18 to 24 pin connector.
> 
> So despite being 24 pin, they have some proprietary wiring system that doesn't work?



here you go:






found it HERE


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## eidairaman1 (Jun 27, 2018)

Bluescreendeath said:


> So I have 2x proprietary Delta 475watt PSUs from the HPZ400 series.
> 
> Basically this thing: Delta DPS-475CB-1A
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Delta-DP...cAAOSwj0RbJ7B-
> ...


Connectors are certainly different by volts applied, you are fortunate you didnt blow the board up. You can always see if you can get an adapter or a pin extractor and get a resistor to drop the voltages at the bottom of the connector diagram above. 

Thank goodness overvolt protection worked.


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## Bluescreendeath (Jun 27, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> You blew your board up, did you force the connector in?



Which board? I did not force anything in. They're all 24 pin PSUs. I only tried the HP Z400 PSU into the standard ATX motherboards. I think this won't blow any motherboards but trying to insert a standard ATX PSU into a Z400 mobo will blow the Z400 motherboard?



looniam said:


> here you go:
> 
> View attachment 103176
> 
> found it HERE




Thank you! If i had a little more patience and a soldering gun, maybe I'll attempt the guy's modding project...


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## eidairaman1 (Jun 27, 2018)

Bluescreendeath said:


> Which board? I did not force anything in. They're all 24 pin PSUs. I only tried the HP Z400 PSU into the standard ATX motherboards. I think this won't blow any motherboards but trying to insert a standard ATX PSU into a Z400 mobo will blow the Z400 motherboard?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I re did my last post, re-read it. It seems only 1 or 2 lines need a resistor


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## Bluescreendeath (Jun 27, 2018)

eidairaman1 said:


> I re did my last post, re-read it. It seems only 1 or 2 lines need a resistor





eidairaman1 said:


> Connectors are certainly different by volts applied, you are fortunate you didnt blow the board up. You can always see if you can get an adapter or a pin extractor and get a resistor to drop the voltages at the bottom of the connector diagram above.
> Thank goodness overvolt protection worked.



Yeh, good thing it worked.

Didn't see an adapter to convert non-ATX PSUs to ATX, but I did see an adapter for ATX PSU to non-ATX motherboard. As for the pin extractors...maybe. I do want to tweak it, but buying the correct PSU is only $10 more...hmmmm


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## eidairaman1 (Jun 27, 2018)

Bluescreendeath said:


> Yeh, good thing it worked.
> 
> Didn't see an adapter to convert non-ATX PSUs to ATX, but I did see an adapter for ATX PSU to non-ATX motherboard. As for the pin extractors...maybe. I do want to tweak it, but buying the correct PSU is only $10 more...hmmmm



If you want it working now buy the psu, if you want a challenge do the mods needed.


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## looniam (Jun 27, 2018)

if you want something that won't turn into a flaming brick:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYGJL0E/
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=384

i was looking at that 400 until i saw its' review:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=436

though the ripple on the 550 is "iffy" it won't be an issue for a "lightweight" machine.


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## Bluescreendeath (Jun 27, 2018)

looniam said:


> if you want something that won't turn into a flaming brick:
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYGJL0E/
> http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story4&reid=384
> 
> ...



Thanks, I'll look into that one for my budget builds. For my current one, I think I will be getting the OEM Delta 400 watt (gold rated 92% efficent) that comes in HP Z220s and Z230s. The EVGA PSU can provide more juice, but it doesn't have the right holes to install into my HP Z230 case.

For my regular ATX PSU needs, I often prowl ebay for lightly used/new-pulled Antec/Seasonic PSUs. A year ago, I got a great deal on a couple of new-pulled (no dust) Antec Truepower v2/v3 650 watts for only $30 each.


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## looniam (Jun 27, 2018)

sounds like a plan that's worked for you before, so yeah, good luck "hunting"(?)


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## Deleted member 163934 (Jun 27, 2018)

looniam said:


> here you go:
> 
> View attachment 103176
> 
> found it HERE



the +3.3V and +5V can be happy took from the other +3.3/+5V wires that already go in that 24 pin connector, voltage come from same rail in most if not all PSU cases (I don't really remember hearing in the last years of a psu that has 2 rails for the +3.3V or +5V to split the load..., most load is on the +12V). The only problem that I see is the -5V because meh there is only the -12V that can be used for that and it will require some work (if you have the tools see if by any chance there is actually a -5V inside the PSU but it's just not wired; be careful not to electrocute yourself if you open the psu and work with it like that). You were lucky that the +12V on the +5V and +3.3V didn't destroyed things...


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## Bill_Bright (Jun 27, 2018)

Good Guru said:


> I know that since haswell some power supplies need to be "haswell compatible" for the low c states not to crash this I think would be since lga1150?


This is true but it has nothing to do with the main 24-pin layout configuration. If the PSU is ATX compliant, the pin layout will be as prescribed by the ATX Form Factor standard. 

Now some makers use a 20 + 4 pin connector where the last 4-pin part can break away to support older 20 pin motherboards. But the first 20 pins on a 24-pin connector and on the 20-pin connector are wired the same. 

So as looniam first pointed out, you said it yourself - you have a proprietary supply.


thedukesd1 said:


> The only problem that I see is the -5V


Yeah, but no current ATX compliant motherboard uses the -5 (or -12) VDC voltages. Those are only there for legacy hardware support and... wait for it... proprietary applications. It should also be noted that computer power supplies are often used in non-computer applications where negative voltages may be needed.


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## nomdeplume (Jun 27, 2018)

@looniam saved me a lot of typing.  The model specific HP PSU's are not awful.  You need to remember their machines are built this way for safety and reliability. For as many of them as they make there is no getting around contracting an evolved design instead of using something off the shelf.  This also means they can dictate how easy the workstations are to service, a good thing.


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## jboydgolfer (Jun 27, 2018)

Make sure you also plug-in any 4 or 8 pin CPU power cables that may be required for your system


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## Bluescreendeath (Jun 27, 2018)

nomdeplume said:


> @looniam saved me a lot of typing.  The model specific HP PSU's are not awful.  You need to remember their machines are built this way for safety and reliability. For as many of them as they make there is no getting around contracting an evolved design instead of using something off the shelf.  This also means they can dictate how easy the workstations are to service, a good thing.


HP switched to standard ATX PSUs (but with 18 pin for a lot of them...) in their more recent models as my ATX PSUs works fine with them with an adapter. Their recent proprietary PSU models in the Z200 series (ATX PSU) are slightly better than the ones in the older Z400 series (non-ATX PSU) - with 92% gold rated Deltas vs 85% bronze rated Deltas.


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## Bill_Bright (Jun 27, 2018)

nomdeplume said:


> For as many of them as they make there is no getting around contracting an evolved design instead of using something off the shelf.


I disagree completely. "_Evolved_ design"? No way! There is no reason they cannot use industry standard, off-the-shelf components. The military learned this years ago. As long as the equipment is not subjected to extreme conditions as might be found in battle/mobility scenarios, off the shelf components are just as capable and reliable, and of most importance to their customers (us taxpayers), less expensive too. 

Which brings me to your next point.


nomdeplume said:


> This also means they can dictate how easy the workstations are to service, a good thing.


Again, not true. Off-the-shelf, industry standard components does not impose more difficult service requirements. In fact, it means less specialized training is required - and that's a good thing. It also means off-the-shelf devices in need of repair can be fixed with more, and easier to find, less expensive off-the-shelf components. Also a good thing.

What using proprietary parts does is dictate how consumers must obtain service and replacement parts only from the maker. And that does two things: (1) it drives up costs for us consumers and (2) increases profits for the maker. Well, 3 things actually. The use of proprietary parts greatly limits options for the consumer.

Why did Apple Macs cost so much more than PCs? Because Macs were extremely proprietary. Every part, even software had to come from Apple. So there was no competition. No competition is never good for the consumer. 

And were Apple Macs more reliable? No. Did they have longer longevity? No. Did they cost more? Yes? Were they easier to repair? No. Were they easier to upgrade? No. In fact, they had fewer, more expensive upgrade options.

The greatest thing that EVER happened for the PC and for consumers of PCs is the ATX Form Factor standard. Without that, we consumers could NEVER EVER use a Gigabyte motherboard with an MSI graphics card, Crucial RAM, WD hard drive, Samsung SSD, Seasonic power supply and put them all in a Fractal Design case, connect power and all the interconnecting data cables, then attach a Samsung and a Benq monitor and expect them to work! Yet that is exactly what we can do BECAUSE we can use industry standard, off-the-shelf components. 

JUST BECAUSE there is no similar form factor standard for notebooks, there is no thriving notebook parts industry, or retailers like NewEgg, Microcenter, TigerDirect specializing in notebook components where we, as consumers, can custom build (or upgrade!) our own notebooks with parts from 100s of different makers.


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## nomdeplume (Jun 27, 2018)

Specialized training to replace something in a HP workstation.  OK Bill, you got me.  I stopped right there having discovered my position was not worth defense.


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## Bill_Bright (Jun 28, 2018)

nomdeplume said:


> Specialized training to replace something in a HP workstation. OK Bill, you got me. I stopped right there having discovered my position was not worth defense.


 Okay, perhaps I should have said "additional" training instead of specialized but I am pretty sure you knew what I meant. 

Specialized does not mean advanced training that takes a PhD to understand. But if something is proprietary, and does not comply with industry standards (which is what is taught in tech schools), then techs at HP, Dell, Apple, etc. will require "additional" training to learn how to identify the differences, and then how to troubleshoot and repair them. 

Beyond that, I stand by what I said. There is nothing to suggest proprietary means "evolved" in to something better or easier than the industry standards - especially when it comes to moving a couple wires around on a PSU and motherboard power connector and in particular, proprietary does not mean something better or easier for us consumers.


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## bug (Jun 28, 2018)

As I like to say again and again: standards are essential, we wouldn't know what to deviate from without them. Stupid HP


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## sneekypeet (Jun 28, 2018)

How about we argue less about semantics and try to help the OP solve his issue.


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## bug (Jun 28, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> How about we argue less about semantics and try to help the OP solve his issue.


Didn't @looniam do just that? The PSU is non-standard, it will not work with standard motherboards. Case/thread closed.


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## sneekypeet (Jun 28, 2018)

bug said:


> Didn't @looniam do just that? The PSU is non-standard, it will not work with standard motherboards. Case/thread closed.



So now we have to close every thread because you all cant keep yourselves from arguing?


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## John Naylor (Jun 28, 2018)

1.  Dell has historically  notorious for pulling this proprietary crap in their server and business lines; the reason is the part they buy OEM for $40, they can sell to you for $180.  HP does the same for NICs, HDs and memory on the plotters where the cable connections are no standard.  In later years, with consumers being used to this, they dropped the proprietary but sold the rebranded 3Comm NIC card for $220 when I was able to buy 3 of them for $15.  A friend ran into this on a Dell HD.  I built him a cable, so he could use normal HDs from then on w/o being raped.

2.  The ATX standard doesn't actually cover pinouts at the PSU end, just the MoBo end.  Overclock.net has an extensive library of PSU pinout diagrams to support the sleeving community there.  If you look at custom cable sets from Lutr0, Cable Mod, Corsair, etc, they are brand and model specific.

3.  In short, it's really not a big deal to create custom cable sets for any PSU.  I created my own buying the components at frozencpu.com (copy / paste follows)

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...rimp_Connector_-_Black_-_90_M-SCA-16F-BK.html http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...rimp_Connector_-_Black_-_90_M-SCA-16F-BK.html http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2...wer_Connector_-_Corsair_Seasonic_-_Black.html
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9...-Plated_Connector_Pins_-_Female_-_4_Pack.html http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8..._Power_Connector_-_Black.html?tl=g51c383s1008
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...male_PCI-Express_Power_Connector_-_Black.html http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...wer_Connector_-_Corsair_Seasonic_-_Black.html
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/6...ector_-_Black_ACR-CB0618.html?tl=g51c383s1009
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._Power_Connector_-_Black.html?tl=g51c379s1012 http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...Corsair_Seasonic_-_Black.html?tl=g51c621s1964
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...Corsair_Seasonic_-_Black.html?tl=g51c621s1962
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._Power_Connector_-_Black.html?tl=g51c387s1015

Check over at overclock.net and look up the sleeving threads ... as it's an enthusiast site, I doubt you'll find the pinout diagram for the Dell, but you should find someone to walk you thru it.

Another option, have these guys make it for you ... tho the cost of the cables will likely exceed the cost of a replacement PSU.  A Seasonic S12 520 watter usually costs me $35

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/fZyFf7/seasonic-power-supply-s12ii520bronze


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## Bill_Bright (Jun 28, 2018)

John Naylor said:


> 2. The ATX standard doesn't actually cover pinouts at the PSU end, just the MoBo end.


Actually, it does. As seen on page 31 here or page 29 here. 

But regardless, it would not matter.  If the standard dictates how the motherboard pinouts are, and the standard dictates the PSU must be compatible, then PSU end must match the motherboard.


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## MrGenius (Jun 28, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Actually, it does. As seen on page 31 here or page 29 here.
> 
> But regardless, it would not matter.  If the standard dictates how the motherboard pinouts are, and the standard dictates the PSU must be compatible, then PSU end must match the motherboard.


You misunderstood the statement. What he's saying applies to modular PSU cables. The pinouts where the cables plug into the PSU are not standardized. Which means you can't always use modular cables from a different manufacturer, or even from a different model from the same manufacturer. They aren't always wired the same.


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## nomdeplume (Jun 28, 2018)

Bill_Bright said:


> Okay, perhaps I should have said "additional" training instead of specialized but I am pretty sure you knew what I meant.
> 
> Specialized does not mean advanced training that takes a PhD to understand. But if something is proprietary, and does not comply with industry standards (which is what is taught in tech schools), then techs at HP, Dell, Apple, etc. will require "additional" training to learn how to identify the differences, and then how to troubleshoot and repair them.
> 
> Beyond that, I stand by what I said. There is nothing to suggest proprietary means "evolved" in to something better or easier than the industry standards - especially when it comes to moving a couple wires around on a PSU and motherboard power connector and in particular, proprietary does not mean something better or easier for us consumers.



The OP's Z230 is not a consumer good, so to speak.  It is a low level workstation designed and sold for business/industrial use with a fully supported life span of 3 years.  Evolved was the word I chose to describe how the design and materials combine to produce a low failure rate system.  Unless you can prove the pinout does not add to the overall system architecture in the original capacity.  I have little to disprove.  It is built to a level, as is other industrial computer equipment that must use higher tolerances and pass more stringent controls, higher than regulations and standards consumer retail goods must attain.  Which is to say it is built upon them and improved for the specific purpose where required.

Say I was building a house.  A situation fraught with codes to regulate the lowest level of materials which can be used and safe construction practices.  These codes are largely out of date and easily surpassed.  So much so the inspector enforcing them tries to fail large sections of the home as being out of code.  So out come the plans and over goes junior members of the architect firm and lead contractor to disabuse him of his notions.  Chances are the outside set of eyes bring to light corners were cut and sub-par materials were substituted, intelligently where they added nothing.  That much like the slower moving code these plans and fitments did not account for the next owner or change from a home into an insurance agency.  Start knocking down walls and you run the risk of complications.  This is even more true the more evolved the design was for the initial purpose.


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## Bill_Bright (Jun 28, 2018)

MrGenius said:


> You misunderstood the statement. What he's saying applies to modular PSU cables. The pinouts where the cables plug into the PSU are not standardized


Ah! Yes, That is, sadly very true. Modular cables are not interchangeable for that reason. Which is too bad. For the record, we have even seen different modular supplies from the same brand use different cables - I assume because the OEMs are different. 

Yeah, the industry need to settle on a standard for those too. 

As far as the OPs computer being a workstation, as long as it is not described anywhere as being ATX compliant, then okay. But do note workstation does NOT imply any higher standards in terms of quality or evolution. It normally meant it was intended for higher order work - like scientific number crunching. Originally, it just meant it was tied to a mainframe - as in workstation "terminal".


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## Caring1 (Jun 29, 2018)

sneekypeet said:


> So now we have to close every thread because you all cant keep yourselves from arguing?


Yes. 
Or at least when specific members are involved.


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