# Computer Cuts Power (Shuts Down)



## jed (Mar 10, 2016)

Hey all...

I come to TPU for salvation again.  My rig is getting older but it's still pretty powerful and runs well (besides this).  Recently it has been randomly shutting down completely out of nowhere.  It's like the power cord gets unplugged from the wall.  No warnings or anything, just a 'click' and a dead computer.  Reboots up fine with the typical "start normally or in safe mode?" prompt.  I read the event log but it gives no specifics other than it unexpectedly crashed - "The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly."  The Details tab gives nothing but random numbers and jargon.

It is pretty random, but seems to be more during gaming.  Recently, I'll be playing League of Legends and the PC shut down twice in one game.  First after about 4 minutes into the game, second about 8 minutes in, then it didn't do it again.  I played a whole 20 minute game before that with no shutdowns.  The other day, I finished playing and my computer was just idling.  Randomly I heard it shut down across the room!  It was just sitting there doing nothing and it still powered off.  There are other times I could come to my computer the next day and it would be powered off - not the typical overnight Windows update restart - a full power off.

I have had my system overclocked since I got it.  I've pounded through hours of Skyrim, Battlefront and Crysis with no issues.  I am not experiencing screen tears or anything that would lead it to GPU.  One of my GPU fans is out, but I have manual fan control running and the broken one runs about half speed - temps stay mid-range.  My overall temps are being monitored and they seem okay.  

HWMonitor says:
3 MoBo temp maxes: 33, 65 and 88 C
CPU temp max: 78 C - it idles at 36 C and runs at about 55 C playing Witcher 3.  
SSD temp max: 27 C
HDD temp max: assembly 27C, air flow 27 C
GPU temp max: 50 C

I really am not sure what it is or where to start...  Do any of those temps seem off?  The MoBo 88 C seems a bit high, but not sure on MoBo's.  I am not sure where that CPU spike came from... I am playing Witcher 3 on about medium settings and it runs at around 55 C.  Could my power strip have too much going into it?  It's an old strip, "15A 120VAC and 60HZ".  It's full of plugs.  Modem, Router, 2 monitors, PC power and 5.1 sound power.  Could it be getting to the end of it's days?

Could it be the Power Supply?  It's an Antec 700 Watt.

Thanks for any advice!


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## Athlon2K15 (Mar 10, 2016)

Yeah sounds like dying PSU.


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## OneMoar (Mar 10, 2016)

Hard power down is _always_ psu


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## jed (Mar 10, 2016)

OneMoar said:


> Hard power down is _always_ psu



Right on then.  Is 700 W a good number to replace?  Or would a different wattage be better?


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## OneMoar (Mar 10, 2016)

jed said:


> Right on then.  Is 700 W a good number to replace?  Or would a different wattage be better?


you could get away with a 600W  but it all depends on your budget


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## EzioAs (Mar 10, 2016)

Are you sure it's not the CPU? Have you tried dialing back to stock settings?


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Mar 10, 2016)

PSU.....get a new one....like has been said, 600w is suffficient for your rig.


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## Caring1 (Mar 10, 2016)

With an overclocked FX 8350 under water, the VRM's might not be staying cool enough, it might be a thermal shut down.
Turn the side fan around so it blows in towards the CPU region.

You can always buy a cheap PSU tester if you suspect it is that, but check voltages in the BIOS first, or in software while under load and at idle.


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## trog100 (Mar 10, 2016)

the first thing to do would be slow it down.. see what happens.. after that it could be one of several things.. 

trog


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## Bill_Bright (Mar 10, 2016)

jed said:


> I read the event log but it gives no specifics other than it unexpectedly crashed



This indicates it crashes so suddenly, Windows never sees it coming to write a log entry. And I agree with the others, that typically points to power. 





jed said:


> How can you tell for sure??


Swap in a spare/borrowed spare PSU for a test. While a decent *PSU Tester* is a must for any enthusiast or hobbyist, they are not really very conclusive because they don't test the PSUs under a variety of loads. They typically just have a little "dummy load" - enough to allow for a stable output. But a decent one like the one in that link that has a full digital readout will tell you if your voltages are within the required ±5% tolerances. Plus, those testers (and most multimeters) cannot test for *ripple* and other anomalies that affect computer stability. To properly test a PSU, it must be done under a full range of expected loads using an o'scope or a power supply analyzer - specialized and expensive test equipment most users don't have, nor do they have the training to understand the results. So again, swapping in a known good spare is typically best for "normal" users.

That said, your 78°C and definitely 88°C are pretty high and would give me concern too. The motherboard temp typically indicates the chipset. And while CPUs can tolerate 78°C, stability could become an issue at those temps. I would also make sure the interior is clean of heat trapping dust. If clean, you need to make sure your fans are spinning properly. You may need to look at adding another case fan (or 2) to increase the desired front-to-back flow of cool air through the case.

But again, since you noticed the computer shutting down when it was at idle, that again points back to the PSU for me too. At least, power is always the first place to look since everything relies on good power.


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## OneMoar (Mar 10, 2016)

replace the psu if it was a issue with the board or cpu it would have been doing it from day one and not out of the blue (unless there is 6 inches of dust in the machine and squirrels living in the vrm cooler .... ) 
you people need to practice some critical thinking


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## jed (Mar 11, 2016)

Thanks everyone!  The replies make sense.  I would consider the CPU as well, but like someone mentioned, it should've been happening from day one.  I test my overclock settings pretty thoroughly to make sure they are stable, and I have been running it like this for years.  Unless it's full of dust (I recently cleaned the case) I don't see why the CPU would suddenly be overheating, especially at idle or while playing Leage of Legends (not very demanding).  I'll look for a deal on a PSU.  I will continue to monitor temps and watch for CPU spikes, and I will definitely double check fans and clean the inside of the PC!


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## EzioAs (Mar 11, 2016)

Don't think that your overclock can run stable for all the time. I've had my 3570K running at 4.5GHz stable for over 3 years until it crashes on me just two days ago. Probably needs more voltage or something. Back to stock speeds for now. At least the PC still lives.


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## jed (Mar 11, 2016)

It's weird... My computer has been idling for several hours.  I come back and see HWMonitor has my 3 Max MoBo temps at 106, 88 and 73 C.  Could it be a misread from HWMonitor?  The PC was still running...  106 seems dreadfully hot, especially for idling.

I also just noticed my CPU is hitting ~70C during LoL games, which makes no sense. Why can I run Witcher 3 at ~55 C but LoL at ~70C?  Could this be the issue, or does it still sound like a PSU problem?

I also just noticed that running Chrome with several tabs open + LoL makes my CPU go up by 7-10 C... wtf?  Is Chrome really that demanding or is my CPU having some issues?


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## jaggerwild (Mar 11, 2016)

Those temps are way to high, its why it was shutting down. You got the over clock at 1.46v? Back off the over clock, that pre built can't cool it.......


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## Devon68 (Mar 11, 2016)

It's the psu


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## R-T-B (Mar 11, 2016)

Devon68 said:


> It's the psu



Not with those temps it ain't.  I'm betting thermal shutdown (the temps scream of it, 100C+ is BAD).


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## Caring1 (Mar 11, 2016)

Get rid of the A.I.O. cooler and get a decent tower with fans on that CPU.


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## R-T-B (Mar 11, 2016)

Caring1 said:


> Get rid of the A.I.O. cooler and get a decent tower with fans on that CPU.



I'm a fan of a good air cooler too, but that's purely personal preference.  A good functioning AIO should work for his needs.  I'm thinking something is wrong with his.


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## Caring1 (Mar 11, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> I'm a fan of a good air cooler too, but that's purely personal preference.  A good functioning AIO should work for his needs.  I'm thinking something is wrong with his.


If it was an Intel set up I'd agree, but an overclocked 8350 and no cooling on the VRMs, asking for trouble.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 11, 2016)

OneMoar said:


> Hard power down is _always_ psu


No.
Power, or heat.
H60 or any single 120 AIO is no where's near enough cooler. There are better air coolers than an H60.
Minimum 240 AIO is required for an FX CPU.
FX's run hotter than the sun.


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## Vayra86 (Mar 11, 2016)

If your PC shuts down suddenly again, open your case and touch the VRM section. If its too hot/very hot to touch, you know you've got an issue there. If its not, you know its PSU.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 11, 2016)

Vayra86 said:


> If your PC shuts down suddenly again, open your case and touch the VRM section. If its too hot/very hot to touch, you know you've got an issue there. If its not, you know its PSU.


Not necessarily.
You can have the coldest VRM in the world but if the CPU is hot it'll still shut down.


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## chuck216 (Mar 11, 2016)

It could be a factor of 2 things first the 12v rail is getting weak and not able to supply the GPU as much under heavy stress and 2: Earlier revisions of the GA-990FXA-UD3 are known to lower power to the CPU if the VRMs get too hot it may be the lowered voltage may not be enough to support your overclock triggering a shut down.


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## Bill_Bright (Mar 11, 2016)

> Get rid of the A.I.O. cooler and get a decent tower with fans on that CPU.





R-T-B said:


> A good functioning AIO should work for his needs.


AiO coolers don't always provide any essential air turbulence to the components surrounding the CPU socket (including the "System" sensor). For this reason, I favor downward firing coolers - such as the OEM coolers which contrary to what many want everyone to believe - are fully capable coolers as long as you are not doing any extreme overclocking. And for sure, until this is resolved, all clock speeds and voltages should be set at the defaults.

The fact you have really high temps even at idle certain could indicate serious cooling deficiencies - or simply bad sensors or incorrect monitoring. I recommend you open the side panel and blast a desk fan in there and see what happens. If your temps remain high (with default clocking) then I suspect bad sensors or monitoring. I would also try another monitor, like Speccy and see what it says (for temps and voltages).

And regardless, you need to swap in a spare PSU, if for no other reason than to eliminate yours from the equation.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 11, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> And regardless, you need to swap in a spare PSU, if for no other reason than to eliminate yours from the equation.


Horse before the cart. Cooling needs to be addressed first. It is the most obvious.


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## R-T-B (Mar 11, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> I favor downward firing coolers - such as the OEM coolers which contrary to what many want everyone to believe - are fully capable coolers as long as you are not doing any extreme overclocking.



Yeah, I didn't think about the VRMs, so I will conceed that.  I would point out however I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you that stock coolers are adequate for stock functions Bill, I just think we have massive disagreements in this community about what constitutes "extreme" vs "moderate" overclocking.  We tend to err towards what you'd probably call extreme, and extreme to us generally means LN2 or phase change or something you'd probably call "ridiculous."  

I think you'd agree that stock coolers are not adequate for the type of overclocks bandied about in bragging rights type threads here times, no?  Either way that's a subject for another thread.  Just a side thought.



Mr.Scott said:


> Horse before the cart. Cooling needs to be addressed first. It is the most obvious.



I agree.  100C type temps needs to be the first thing addressed.  If true, they could be actively damaging hardware.

PS:  Before Bill gets me, I'm sure some VRMs are rated to withstand 100C plus and beyond, but I doubt it helps them any.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 11, 2016)

In regards to VRM cooling.
Any time you use an AIO or any water cooling solution, active cooling of some sort needs to be added to the VRM and NB areas because you lose the residual air flow from an air solution to these areas.
Same applies to a GPU unless you're using a full cover block.


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## R-T-B (Mar 11, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> In regards to VRM cooling.
> Any time you use an AIO or any water cooling solution active cooling of some sort needs to be added to the VRM an NB areas because you lose the residual air flow from an air solution to these areas.



I know this, or at least it makes sense when I think about it.  I just forgot it easily because I've been on air cooling so long with giant Sunon Maglev fans for as long as I can remember. (I keep my comp in another noise isolated area, or I'd never hear myself think).


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 11, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> I know this, or at least it makes sense when I think about it.  I just forgot it easily because I've been on air cooling so long with giant Sunon Maglev fans for as long as I can remember. (I keep my comp in another noise isolated area, or I'd never hear myself think).


You're a smart guy mr.frog.
It wasn't directed at you. Mostly for others less in the know.


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## R-T-B (Mar 11, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> You're a smart guy mr.frog.
> It wasn't directed at you. Mostly for others less in the know.


I missed it a few posts ago.  Don't overestimate my smartness.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 11, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> Don't overestimate my smartness.


Better to overestimate and have to explain, than underestimate and look stupid.


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## jed (Mar 11, 2016)

Thanks for the discussion, everyone!  So in order of cheapest to simplest, I should do the following and monitor for results:

1.  Set CPU to default or lower OC settings.
2.  Open side panel and blast an air fan and monitor temps.
3.  Disconnect my old azz acer monitor and try a different one (I am running dual setup).
4.  Buy a bigger case with better airflow.
5.  Buy a new PSU.  I don't have friends with powerful PC's so swapping isn't an option.
6.  Buy a new cooler.
7.  Throw computer off bridge into the river to see if that cools it down.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 11, 2016)

I would suggest 1-2-6 in that order.


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## jed (Mar 11, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> I would suggest 1-2-6 in that order.



Would a new cooler do anything to help cool my MoBo?  Since those temps are also extreme.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 11, 2016)

jed said:


> Would a new cooler do anything to help cool my MoBo?  Since those temps are also extreme.


If you go air, sure. If you go AIO again, make sure you get at least a 240 rad and you'll still have to actively cool the VRM area.
As for socket temp, a small fan on the back of the board pointed at the socket will lower temps substantially.


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## jed (Mar 11, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> If you go air, sure. If you go AIO again, make sure you get at least a 240 rad and you'll still have to actively cool the VRM area.
> As for socket temp, a small fan on the back of the board pointed at the socket will lower temps substantially.



Could you recommend a cooler that is quality but good value?  I am open to air or liquid, whichever works best works for me.  If I get a 240 radiator/fan, that means I'll need a new case, right?  My case port is only for 120 or a smaller fan like that.  There is also no port for a fan on the MoBo side, so I'd need a different case for that too, yeah?

I also just noticed one of the two fans on the front of my case is not working.  It spins slowly but not full speed.  This of course can't be the only cause, but should definitely help when I replace that.


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## Bill_Bright (Mar 11, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> Horse before the cart.


I did not say do this first. I said it needs to be done - especially since the PSU has been in question since the very beginning of this thread. You can tell by the last line of my sig, I do take heat very seriously.


R-T-B said:


> I think you'd agree that stock coolers are not adequate for the type of overclocks bandied about in bragging rights type threads here times, no?


And I have said repeatedly, unless doing extreme overclocking. What many of the regulars here seem to forget, or simply choose to ignore , is that not all the regulars or others who visit this forum are enthusiasts or overclockers. Even among long time members. And also forgotten, or ignored is that many find their way here via our friend, Bing Google - that is, not through enthusiast or gamer channels.

So while some are tired (or they just don't want to hear it because _they_ heard it before  ) of me pointing out that OEM coolers are more than adequate for most users - unless extreme overclocking, not everyone is aware of it. So it bears repeating before potentially wasting money on something they just don't need.



Mr.Scott said:


> Any time you use an AIO or any water cooling solution, active cooling of some sort needs to be added to the VRM and NB areas because you lose the residual air flow from an air solution to these areas.


I sure wish everyone would take just a second to understand how true and important this is. And it is not just AiO or water cooling solutions either. Aftermarket coolers with side firing fans can also limit essential cooling to components surrounding the CPU socket too. Engineers and motherboard layout designers intentionally surround the CPU socket with heat generating/sensitive devices so they too can take advantage of the "expected" downward firing cooler.

I am NOT suggesting alternative cooling solutions are inherently flawed for this reason. But I am saying those who implement alternative cooling solutions must also consider the cooling needs of other devices in the system, not just the CPU (or GPU). But sadly, many only look at the CPU then wonder why their system is not stable.

I no longer overclock because the process is so automated today (compared to 20 years ago) I don't find it a challenge. But we do build HTPC (home theater PCs) systems here where the client is seeking "silent running" computers. Ensuring adequate cooling throughout without fans (totally passive cooling) can be a real challenge. It is not uncommon for us to underclock systems.  

But, I digress and apologize for running this thread OT.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 11, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> I sure wish everyone would take just a second to understand how true and important this is. And it is not just AiO or water cooling solutions either. Aftermarket coolers with side firing fans can also limit essential cooling to components surrounding the CPU socket too. Engineers and motherboard layout designers intentionally surround the CPU socket with heat generating/sensitive devices so they too can take advantage of the "expected" downward firing cooler.
> 
> I am NOT suggesting alternative cooling solutions are inherently flawed for this reason. But I am saying those who implement alternative cooling solutions must also consider the cooling needs of other devices in the system, not just the CPU (or GPU). But sadly, many only look at the CPU then wonder why their system is not stable.
> 
> ...



Well said Bill.


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## R-T-B (Mar 11, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> I did not say do this first. I said it needs to be done - especially since the PSU has been in question since the very beginning of this thread. You can tell by the last line of my sig, I do take heat very seriously.
> And I have said repeatedly, unless doing extreme overclocking. What many of the regulars here seem to forget, or simply choose to ignore , is that not all the regulars or others who visit this forum are enthusiasts or overclockers. Even among long time members. And also forgotten, or ignored is that many find their way here via our friend, Bing Google - that is, not through enthusiast or gamer channels.
> 
> So while some are tired (or they just don't want to hear it because _they_ heard it before  ) of me pointing out that OEM coolers are more than adequate for most users - unless extreme overclocking, not everyone is aware of it. So it bears repeating before potentially wasting money on something they just don't need.
> ...



You're pretty much spot on with all this.  Well, except that there are some motherboards that do expect side firing fans (mine is one of them, it has big tall weird heatsinks that expect side to side airflow over them to cool the VRMs).  What you are truly wrong about is driving the thread offtopic though...  I did that, not you, so stop stealing my credit!


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## Bill_Bright (Mar 11, 2016)

R-T-B said:


> Well, except that there are some motherboards that do expect side firing fans (mine is one of them, it has big tall weird heatsinks that expect side to side airflow over them to cool the VRMs).


Not sure that is really true - unless your motherboard was designed to accept only a specific family of CPUs that only come with, or only support side firing fans. And I am not aware of any CPU families like that from either Intel or AMD.


R-T-B said:


> so stop stealing my credit!


Okay. I concede. Running this thread OT is entirely R-T-B's fault!


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Mar 11, 2016)

i cant remember which cooler this came off but it is one of 2  deflector plates  to insert between the fins to direct airflow onto components around the socket.

They came packaged with the HSF expressly for this purpose.


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## trog100 (Mar 11, 2016)

i have a nice top flow cooler.. check my specs.. 

trog


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## jed (Mar 11, 2016)

I took my computer apart and did a deep clean.  There was TONS of dust in there.  My CPU radiator was pretty clogged.  I flipped my two front fans to be intakes instead of exhausts (I read somewhere a while ago to use them as exhaust with the H60).  I replaced the broken one with a working one as well.  I will continue to monitor temps and see how things go.


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## jaggerwild (Mar 11, 2016)

Don't forget to run mem test(all noobs suggest this, JOKE!! ). If you got a friend with a spare PSU, then by all means swap it out, I would wait to buy one unless you can get one then return it(just to trouble shoot with) or you live near a Micro center. The PSU you have should be OK, assuming it's not old or has been running constantly for three years.


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## Bill_Bright (Mar 11, 2016)

jed said:


> I read somewhere a while ago to use them as exhaust with the H60


Yeah, that is odd. Typically the fronts are always intakes. This is due mostly because PSUs fans always exhaust out the back and you want a flow through the case. Anyway, it sounds like you have a good setup now.



CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> i cant remember which cooler this came off but it is one of 2 deflector plates to insert between the fins to direct airflow onto components around the socket.


Hmmm, never seen anything like that before but it looks like it would work. It also almost looks home made.

As far as MemTest - not sure about the noob reference, joke or otherwise. That said, I note there is MemTest, MemTest86, and MemTest86+. Three different programs which should not be confused with each other.

MemTest86 is the granddaddy with MemTest86+ its open source spinoff. But development of MemTest86+ ceased nearly 3 years ago, before DDR4 RAM, UEFI motherboards and the current crop of CPUs became commonplace. So I only recommend *MemTest86* which is now owned by PassMark, the popular and respected benchmarking developer company and they've been posting regular updates to keep it current.


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## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Mar 11, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> Hmmm, never seen anything like that before but it looks like it would work. It also almost looks home made.




They came in the box and i never fitted them. I think it may have been a Xigmatek HSF but i cant find the exact model.


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## jed (Mar 11, 2016)

jaggerwild said:


> The PSU you have should be OK, assuming it's not old or has been running constantly for three years.



I typically leave my computer running 24/7, but lately I've been manning up and shutting it down at night to conserve life.   

So far, the idle temps are looking good.  The CPU is at ~27, with random spikes up to 45 or so (Chrome is a killer!), and the MoBo is sitting at 40 or a hair under.  When I get time later, I'll load up a LoL game and monitor.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 11, 2016)

CAPSLOCKSTUCK said:


> i cant remember which cooler this came off but it is one of 2  deflector plates  to insert between the fins to direct airflow onto components around the socket.
> 
> They came packaged with the HSF expressly for this purpose.
> 
> ...



There were a few different HS's that came with those.


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## chuck216 (Mar 12, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> I sure wish everyone would take just a second to understand how true and important this is. And it is not just AiO or water cooling solutions either. Aftermarket coolers with side firing fans can also limit essential cooling to components surrounding the CPU socket too. Engineers and motherboard layout designers intentionally surround the CPU socket with heat generating/sensitive devices so they too can take advantage of the "expected" downward firing cooler.
> 
> I am NOT suggesting alternative cooling solutions are inherently flawed for this reason. But I am saying those who implement alternative cooling solutions must also consider the cooling needs of other devices in the system, not just the CPU (or GPU). But sadly, many only look at the CPU then wonder why their system is not stable.
> 
> ...



You didn't ruin the thread and the very reason you give is why I've stuck by my trusty top-down cooler (though slightly modified from stock) is because it does cool the VRMs and memory as well as the CPU. Yep I'm using an 8 year old TT Big Typhoon with a high cfm fan on it, and it's good enough to net me 4.7 Ghz on my FX-8320 during a Florida summer.


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## Adam Krazispeed (Mar 12, 2016)

if you ever get a new PSU, i would recommend getting at leaset an 80+Gold, maybe even a silver or bronze, but i own a 80+gold thermaltake 750w with a Fx 6350. reading up reviews on them even on coolers, do research, i found a site that someone did a mod on an r9 290 using the reference cooler frame and cut out the gpu area to fit in a water block, but i just mounted the AIO from the arctic accellero II hybrid while still using the factory AMD FAN for the RAM/VRMs, and i no longer have high temps even with a 1100MHZ overclock on the Core clock on a R9 290 4GB and
, i swapted out my old fx 8150 for my dads FX 6350 and i actualy get better performance, CPU & GPU than i did with my old 8150

heres my AMD Reference / Modified AIO Cooler AMD REFernce R9 290  -
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=!AMjJNqjf5hukhP0&id=2799cc95cae4a5d2!1978&cid=2799CC95CAE4A5D2

GPU Z- Showing GEN3

ASUS Sabertooth 990FX /GEN3 R2.0
my 80+ gold PSU has a 5 year warranty, some even have a 10 year warranty , but they do cost alot more but are definitaly worth it, 

and #7 throw your rig in the river, and see if that cools it,  or whatever? that was funny, but i know very frustrating when problems arise out of nowhere, my rig has powered down, but never at idle, only when i have the AMD cpu Multiplier at or above 4.2GHz or higher on my old 8-core 8150, but only when starting a game like Rise Of the Tomb Raider or The division Beta did it once, and i never leave it run 24/7 but i always either have low heat in my room in the winter time or Blast ice cold A/c in the summer, i know my VRMs for CPU get HOT, my CPU (6350) always tops out at most maybe 50c- and GPU never gets above 67c at highest load in THe Division,


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## jed (Mar 13, 2016)

Thanks everyone.  Just played 2 LoL games and monitored temps.  

MoBo Highs: 90, 61, 83
CPU Highs: 71 (still seems hot!)


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 13, 2016)

Still too hot. New cooling solution and fans on VRM and back of socket are eminent.
Have you had any more shutdowns?


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## dorsetknob (Mar 13, 2016)

Aio Cpu coolers do not seem to have any fans to direct air  over the CPU socket while some Water block Designs come with a Fan for Directing Air downwards for those essential components that need that cooling air flow
below are some example pic's to explain what i mean ( Socket 775 waterblock and cooling Fan )


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 13, 2016)

Cool the socket from the backside of the board.

.


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## chuck216 (Mar 13, 2016)

jed said:


> Thanks everyone.  Just played 2 LoL games and monitored temps.
> 
> MoBo Highs: 90, 61, 83
> CPU Highs: 71 (still seems hot!)



Please tell me those motherboard temps are in Fahrenheit. Otherwise there is a real serious problem. Those should never get more than 10 degrees C above ambient and even then that's hot.


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## Toothless (Mar 13, 2016)

chuck216 said:


> Please tell me those motherboard temps are in Fahrenheit. Otherwise there is a real serious problem. Those should never get more than 10 degrees C above ambient and even then that's hot.


I'm going to laugh so hard if they're fahrenheit and not celsius.


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## chuck216 (Mar 13, 2016)

Toothless said:


> I'm going to laugh so hard if they're fahrenheit and not celsius.



I'm being serious though if the MB temps get that high in Celsius then he's got an even worse problem than we thought. Even the 60 degree temp in celcius is way too hot for the northbridge or southbridge and is near the danger point for the VRMs.

Normally I'd suggest a better case but the antech 300 should have plenty of ventilation as long as he's using both front intakes, the side intake and the top exhaust.

In fact the side intake should be helping to cool the VRMs.

Edit:
Though 32c, 16c and 28c are a lot more reasonable for MB temps if he did use Degrees F


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 13, 2016)

chuck216 said:


> Edit:
> Though 32c, 16c and 28c are a lot more reasonable for MB temps if he did use Degrees F


16c is impossible. It would be below ambient. Average indoor ambient is 20-24c.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Mar 13, 2016)

Right. 16°C is just 60.8°F and since it is impossible for a fan to cool a computer cooler than the ambient (room) temperature, it must be bogus regardless.


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## chuck216 (Mar 13, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> 16c is impossible. It would be below ambient. Average indoor ambient is 20-24c.


Depends on which time of year and which part of the world, spiringtime in say Alaska never gets above that temperature. but I was attributing the 16 to a bad sensor value.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 13, 2016)

chuck216 said:


> Depends on which time of year and which part of the world, spiringtime in say Alaska never gets above that temperature.


Indoors?
I'm well aware man.
Your post was just meant to be difficult.
Troll effectively slayed.


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## chuck216 (Mar 13, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> Indoors?
> I'm well aware man.
> Your post was just meant to be difficult.
> Troll effectively slayed.



My intention wasn't to troll, as I said I considered that to be a bad value, the others however are quite normal temps for northbridge and southbridge. (that is if the temps he gave are Fahrenheit)


----------



## jed (Mar 14, 2016)

chuck216 said:


> My intention wasn't to troll, as I said I considered that to be a bad value, the others however are quite normal temps for northbridge and southbridge. (that is if the temps he gave are Fahrenheit)



The temps are indeed C.  As I sit right now it is idling at 28/36/38.  This is according to HWMonitor.  The ridiculous 100+ temps were also in C.

New symptom (this happened around the same time-ish as the power-down started).  Just doesn't happen as often.  I will come back to my computer from idling and the screens will just be frozen.  I won't be able to move my mouse cursor or anything.  The computer seems to be running fine outside of that, but I have to hard reboot to get control back.  Can't control alt delete or anything.  Restarting monitors does not fix it.


----------



## Caring1 (Mar 14, 2016)

CPU usage might be high, locking the system up, Task Manager should show that once it unfreezes, it would also account for the high temps.


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 14, 2016)

If additional VRM cooling won't do the trick on that motherboard any longer, it is very well possible they've already been cooked well enough to become inefficient, which results in even more heat going through them to deliver the power they need to.


----------



## chuck216 (Mar 14, 2016)

jed said:


> The temps are indeed C.  As I sit right now it is idling at 28/36/38.  This is according to HWMonitor.  The ridiculous 100+ temps were also in C.



OK the idle temps are reasonable for ambient temperatures however the under load temps are way higher than they should be. 

It seems almost like the heat is being retained inside your case but if you're using the one in your specs it should have plenty of ventilation, especially if you are using the top fan and the side intake. In fact the side intake would help cool the VRMs.

Part of the problem when MB temps get too high is heat retention inside the case due to poor ventilation, but your case isn't known as one with poor ventilation. but 90C for which I'm guessing are the VRM temps is just way too high even under load and as for 100c I stated before it's literally  boiling your VRMs.

If your case has all fans running (hopefully at full speed as that provides  the best airflow) both front ones as intakes, side panel as intake, rear as exhaust, top as exhaust, and also have your PSU positioned so the fan is facing UP inside the case so it sucks the air inside the case through the PSU to the outside of the case.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 14, 2016)

chuck216 said:


> also have your PSU positioned so the fan is facing UP inside the case so it sucks the air inside the case through the PSU to the outside of the case.


That may actually be detrimental to the PSU. PSU needs cool air also. No point in heating that up too.


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## chuck216 (Mar 14, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> That may actually be detrimental to the PSU. PSU needs cool air also. No point in heating that up too.



Normally I'd agree but in this case the additional ventilation is worth the hot air going through it and besides, his case has no vents in the bottom of it for outside air ventilation.

Also to the OP the HWmonitor temps you are giving are the System. CPU and TMPIN2 temps in that order correct? if so though high them 90C one is only about 10c above normal for a an FX CPU under full load I'm running Prime95 as I type this and my current temps are System: 29C, CPU: 81C  and TMPIN2 at 76C  with CPU Package temp at 76C inside a case know for having the best ventilation possible outside of a totally open case and a very good air cooler on the CPU.

My Idles are 27C, 33C and 13C respectively (the 13c is obviously a false value)

Most of your temperature problems are happening while gaming so I'd also factor GPU temperature in increasing ambient temps inside the case which brings up the question: Is the GPU using an auto fan profile to cool itself or do you have the fan(s) on it manually set to a set speed. I personally would set a speed of at least 75% to help maintain a lower temperature throughout it's operating range.


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 14, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> That may actually be detrimental to the PSU. PSU needs cool air also. No point in heating that up too.



Yes, especially if you already have airflow issues, I would not recommend using the PSU as outtake.

PSU's are more sensitive to heat than any other component in the PC. They are rated to work well at either 40 or 50 degrees C, and their fan/cooling is measured on just PSU heat, not the rest of the system. Many PSU's also get noisy when they need to start working that fan (9 out of 10 PSU's have a cheap ass, loud fan). If that fan can't keep up, you've got other issues including shutdowns due to PSU / lower 12V currents due to heat/leakage.

Besides, it doesn't solve the problem with the motherboard, there is no reason it should get that hot, additional cooling is just masking the real issue and postponing critical meltdown, nothing more. I doubt you'd want to take the PSU along with that meltdown.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Mar 14, 2016)

chuck216 said:


> Depends on which time of year and which part of the world


Time of year and part of the world have nothing to do with it - unless the computer is used outdoors. And since this is a PC and not a Panasonic Toughbook, it is highly unlikely it is being used outdoors, or that he keeps his ambient (room) temperatures below what would normally be considered "creature comfort" levels.

One note about side panel fans. Throughout the years, I have found in many cases those fans to be counterproductive - not helpful. My "guess" is because they can disrupt the desired flow of cool air through the case instead of adding to it. The consistent exception is with side panel fans that blow into a tube that channels the cool air directly onto the CPU (or GPU - depending on placement). My point is, try it both ways - don't assume a side panel fan is better.



Mr.Scott said:


> That may actually be detrimental to the PSU. PSU needs cool air also. No point in heating that up too.


Sorry, but I don't agree with that all. That's one of the reasons PSUs have active (fan) cooling and not passive (no fan) cooling - to force air flow through it and not rely on thermal-dynamics. PSU designers don't know or care if the PSU will be mounted in a case that supports top or bottom mounted PSUs. So it does not matter if the fan is facing up or down (or sideways with a rear mounted fan - as so many are) as long as the airflow direction is exhausting the heated air out of the computer case and not back into the case interior.



Vayra86 said:


> I would not recommend using the PSU as outtake.


What? That is how they must be used! That is, they must be oriented to exhaust the heated air out of the PC case. In fact, I have never seen a PSU the draws air in from the back and pumps that heat into (as an "intake") into the case. That just would not make any sense.


> PSU's are more sensitive to heat than any other component in the PC.


Ummm, sorry, but not true either. High-density devices - processors, memory devices, etc. are the most sensitive.


----------



## Frick (Mar 14, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> Time of year and part of the world have nothing to do with it - unless the computer is used outdoors.



It does unless the user has perfect temperature control, which I'm willing to bet money he doesn't have.

Anyway that kind of freezing sounds motherboard related to me. Have you removed the overclock yet?


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 14, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> What? That is how they must be used! That is, they must be oriented to exhaust the heated air out of the PC case. In fact, I have never seen a PSU the draws air in from the back and pumps that heat into (as an "intake") into the case. That just would not make any sense.
> Ummm, sorry, but not true either. High-density devices - processors, memory devices, etc. are the most sensitive.



He has an Antec 300, which is bottom mounted and also means you can have a closed airflow circuit for the PSU, which is always preferable to having it work with in-case airflow.

In addition, hot air rises, so with a bottom mount PSU the effect on actual case airflow will be minimal at best. At the same time, you detract from the general flow of air coming from case intake fans, meaning a lower volume of fresh air going up along GPU > CPU > case outtake fans. 

PSU as intake fan... ain't nobody got time for that, of course you don't do this.

Sensitivity: CPU and GPU ie chips can take far higher temps than PSU internals before they start acting wonky.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 14, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> Sorry, but I don't agree with that all. That's one of the reasons PSUs have active (fan) cooling and not passive (no fan) cooling - to force air flow through it and not rely on thermal-dynamics. PSU designers don't know or care if the PSU will be mounted in a case that supports top or bottom mounted PSUs. So it does not matter if the fan is facing up or down (or sideways with a rear mounted fan - as so many are) as long as the airflow direction is exhausting the heated air out of the computer case and not back into the case interior.


Fan or no fan, common sense says that cooling PSU with 20 degree air is much better than cooling with 50 degree air.


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## chuck216 (Mar 14, 2016)

You're all forgetting the fact as I mentioned before that his case has no provisions for directing outside air through the PSU if he did mount it with the fan facing down I Just said to make sure it's mounted with the fan facing up because mounting it facing down would block the PSU fan completely providing NO ventilation through the PSU.


----------



## Vayra86 (Mar 14, 2016)

chuck216 said:


> You're all forgetting the fact as I mentioned before that his case has no provisions for directing outside air through the PSU if he did mount it with the fan facing down I Just said to make sure it's mounted with the fan facing up because mounting it facing down would block the PSU fan completely providing NO ventilation through the PSU.



Oh crap! I thought the Antec 300 had a grille on the bottom. NEVER MIND the previous statement in that case.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 14, 2016)

chuck216 said:


> You're all forgetting the fact as I mentioned before that his case has no provisions for directing outside air through the PSU if he did mount it with the fan facing down I Just said to make sure it's mounted with the fan facing up because mounting it facing down would block the PSU fan completely providing NO ventilation through the PSU.


I do concede to that.
There are different models of the 300 though, some do have the bottom vent.


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## chuck216 (Mar 14, 2016)

Vayra86 said:


> Oh crap! I thought the Antec 300 had a grille on the bottom. NEVER MIND the previous statement in that case.



nope the 300 is basically a scaled down version of the 900, which despite being one of the best airflow cases there is has no bottom vents either.


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## Bill_Bright (Mar 14, 2016)

Frick said:


> It does unless the user has perfect temperature control


Perfect temperature control? Nobody but scientific laboratories have that. Except for first thing in the morning, who keeps their home temperatures at 60°F?


Vayra86 said:


> He has an Antec 300, which is bottom mounted and also means you can have a closed airflow circuit for the PSU


Closed airflow??? Bull feathers! There is nothing "closed" about it. While the original 300 did not have a bottom vent (the V2 does), the PSU does not sit on the bottom. There is still more than 1/4" clearance to draw air in (assuming the intake is on the bottom).



chuck216 said:


> You're all forgetting the fact as I mentioned before that his case has no provisions for directing outside air through the PSU if he did mount it with the fan facing down


What??? NO!!!!!!!!! Of course that case lets you direct heated air out the back. You guys are not thinking this through. Show me a PSU that draws air "in" from the back of the PSU (where it mounts to the case). You are not going to find one unless the user stupidly opened the case and turned the fan around.

Have any of you done a build with the 300? I have. If you look at the images of the rear, you can easily see by the mounting holes the Antec 300 support mounting the PSU up or down.


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## chuck216 (Mar 14, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> Perfect temperature control? Nobody but scientific laboratories have that. Except for first thing in the morning, who keeps their home temperatures at 60°F?
> Closed airflow??? Bull feathers! There is nothing "closed" about it. While the original 300 did not have a bottom vent (the V2 does), the PSU does not sit on the bottom. There is still more than 1/4" clearance to draw air in (assuming the intake is on the bottom).
> 
> 
> ...



Bill... the PSU directs air through it out the back of the case The issue I was directing was due to the fact the 300 has no grill vent in the bottom of the case that even with the standouts the PSU fan wouldn't provide enough airflow to suck air _*through*_ the PSU and out the back of the case. 1/4 inch is not enough of a gap for proper airflow IMHO.

Also bringing up airflow inside that case, OP do you have all of the tri-cool fans inside that case set to their highest setting. The goal here is to get temperatures as low as possible... noise shouldn't matter, and is an acceptable tradeoff for ventilation.


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## Bill_Bright (Mar 14, 2016)

> The issue I was directing was due to the fact the 300 has no grill vent in the bottom of the case that even with the standouts the PSU fan wouldn't provide enough airflow to suck air _*through*_ the PSU and out the back of the case. 1/4 inch is not enough of a gap for proper airflow IMHO.


And I am saying, typically that gap is not an issue (and I say this from personal experience with that case).  For one, it is enough space unless the fan needs to run at full speed, which is not going to happen unless the PSU is being pushed near capacity (suggesting too small a PSU).

But more importantly, I am saying it does not matter if the user properly mounted the PSU! If the PSU is mounted with the PSU's intake vent towards the case interior, which the Antec 300 allows, there is no reason to mount the PSU with the intake down (on the first edition 300). On later V2 models, you should mount the PSU with intake down because they added a filtered vent there.

So, bottom line here is if the OP has incorrectly mounted the PSU with the intake vent on the bottom (assuming first edition Antec 300), turn it over! Problem solved (at least in terms of PSU cooling).


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## chuck216 (Mar 14, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> And I am saying, typically that gap is not an issue (and I say this from personal experience with that case).  For one, it is enough space unless the fan needs to run at full speed, which is not going to happen unless the PSU is being pushed near capacity (suggesting too small a PSU).
> 
> But more importantly, I am saying it does not matter if the user properly mounted the PSU! If the PSU is mounted with the PSU's intake vent towards the case interior, which the Antec 300 allows, there is no reason to mount the PSU with the intake down (on the first edition 300). On later V2 models, you should mount the PSU with intake down because they added a filtered vent there.
> 
> So, bottom line here is if the OP has incorrectly mounted the PSU with the intake vent on the bottom (assuming first edition Antec 300), turn it over! Problem solved (at least in terms of PSU cooling).



LOL that's what I was trying to say


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## Vayra86 (Mar 14, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> And I am saying, typically that gap is not an issue (and I say this from personal experience with that case).  For one, it is enough space unless the fan needs to run at full speed, which is not going to happen unless the PSU is being pushed near capacity (suggesting too small a PSU).
> 
> But more importantly, I am saying it does not matter if the user properly mounted the PSU! If the PSU is mounted with the PSU's intake vent towards the case interior, which the Antec 300 allows, there is no reason to mount the PSU with the intake down (on the first edition 300). On later V2 models, you should mount the PSU with intake down because they added a filtered vent there.
> 
> So, bottom line here is if the OP has incorrectly mounted the PSU with the intake vent on the bottom (assuming first edition Antec 300), turn it over! Problem solved (at least in terms of PSU cooling).



Yeah, we were actually saying the same thing I was just confizzled with the V2 Antec 300.


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## OneMoar (Mar 14, 2016)

common sense says replace the psu and cooler and not spend 4 pages bickering about AMD's shitty design


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## chuck216 (Mar 14, 2016)

OneMoar said:


> common sense says replace the psu and cooler and not spend 4 pages bickering about AMD's shitty design



Yes simply replacing the cooler and PSU doesn't address the fact his Northbridge ad VRM  temps are too high.

  You can have the best PSU made and CPU watercooling setup in the world it still isn't going to lower those. 
Though I suspect part of the high temps is the GPU getting too hot during gaming, not necessarily too hot for the GPU as they are safe up to 90C under the default fan profile though manually setting the fan speed on the GPU could lower the GPU load temps conciderably under load. 

I have the same basic CPU 8320 vs 8530 and exact same Motherboard inside a very similar case Antec 900 vs 300 only real difference is the coolers,
 He's using a waterblock while I have a very ancient top-down air cooler. But my temps shouldn't be so much lower than his especially since my ambient  temps are most likely higher than his I have only a window AC in a different room to cool the room through an open door. Ambient is around 26C and that's on a cool day, hot days can hit 30C+.


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## Tatty_One (Mar 14, 2016)

Really?  I didn't realise that in the hour since I last logged in that W1z had added a new sub forum entitled "Nursery School" to the site, stop derailing this thread with childish fanboi flamebait nonsense please..... thread cleansed.


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## jed (Mar 15, 2016)

I'll try to answer what was asked to me in the past couple pages.

No, I have not changed the OC yet.
My PSU is mounted with the fan "up" inside the case.  Putting a piece of paper at the outside of the case on the vent blows it away, doesn't suck it in.
My GPU is staying cool - I am monitoring that temp and I've got it pretty steady.
My GPU is running manual fans at 80%.
My fans that have the control notches are set to the highest speed (top exhaust and rear exhaust).  Don't know how to control the two front intake fans.
All I know for the HWMonitor MoBo Temps are: TMPIN0, TMPIN1, TMPIN2.

Example temps from tonight (in C):
1 game LoL ~35 minutes:
MoBo Max: 33, 56, 72
CPU Max: 62
HDD/SSD: 25, 25
GPU: 47

This is my computer desk.  I cut two holes where the two fans would otherwise be restricted, and put a grille over the holes.  The front and back are completely open for air to come in/escape.  They grilles are above the exhaust fan up top and the intake fan on the side.  I don't figure this would be the cause of insane temps, but just though I'd share it to add to the possibilities.














Mr.Scott said:


> Still too hot. New cooling solution and fans on VRM and back of socket are eminent.
> Have you had any more shutdowns?



How would one add a fan to that side of the case?  There are no cutouts for it.  Should I take the back panel of my case off to let the heat escape out the rear side of the board?

So far no more shutdowns, but did have that screen freeze issue.

Edit:  Just saw your reply with the fan pic.  Would that require me to just remove the case panel and run that fan?  Where would I wire it into?  Suck air into the mobo/socket or blow hot air out of it?  Could you link me an example of a fan, or the fan you posted?

Going off the example temps earlier:

Example temps from tonight (in C):
1 game LoL ~35 minutes:
MoBo Max: 33, 56, 72
CPU Max: 62
HDD/SSD: 25, 25
GPU: 47

I come back and see after idling the temps have maxed out at (in C):
MoBo Max: 89, 111, 105
CPU, HDD/SSD and GPU are the same.

WTF is going on?!  I honestly don't know what causes this.  Why can I run a game and have regular (albeit a bit high) temps, but then walk away from my computer and come back an hour later to a practically melted MoBo?


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## OneMoar (Mar 15, 2016)

jed said:


> Going off the example temps earlier:
> 
> Example temps from tonight (in C):
> 1 game LoL ~35 minutes:
> ...


you have a bad sensor ignore it probably just the sensor flaking out spitting bad values 
if you wanna be sure get a IR temp-gun and check it


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## chuck216 (Mar 15, 2016)

jed said:


> I'll try to answer what was asked to me in the past couple pages.
> 
> No, I have not changed the OC yet.
> My PSU is mounted with the fan "up" inside the case.  Putting a piece of paper at the outside of the case on the vent blows it away, doesn't suck it in.
> ...




Question: Is there hot air coming out of the top exhaust fan when you hold your hand over it after the idle time, and  are you sure it's really idling and not doing something in the background such as runnng prime95 or occt or folding etc. those temps if accurate are the result of a long time of serious load on the system. 

also one other question.... where do you have the radiator for your H60 mounted and which way is the airflow going?


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## jed (Mar 15, 2016)

chuck216 said:


> Question: Is there hot air coming out of the top exhaust fan when you hold your hand over it after the idle time, and  are you sure it's really idling and not doing something in the background such as runnng prime95 or occt or folding etc. those temps if accurate are the result of a long time of serious load on the system.
> 
> also one other question.... where do you have the radiator for your H60 mounted and which way is the airflow going?



No, the air is pretty cool coming out of my top exhaust.  I don't have anything running like that.  Maybe Google Chrome sitting in the back ground is all. 

I have a side vent in my case.  It's the side vent, an intake fan, and then the H60 radiator. 

*This is a Google pic, but it's like this, but on the side of my case and not the back.*


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## Tatty_One (Mar 15, 2016)

I would stick another fan on that Rad straight off, I presume that existing fan is sucking out and not blowing the hot air back in.


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## chuck216 (Mar 15, 2016)

Tatty_One said:


> I would stick another fan on that Rad straight off, I presume that existing fan is sucking out and not blowing the hot air back in.



I agree that radiator should be push/pull towards the back of the computer.

The air being cool while the readings being high points to false readings, if your VRM's northbridge etc were reaching over 100c the air coming out would feel like holding your hand over a toaster.


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## jed (Mar 16, 2016)

chuck216 said:


> I agree that radiator should be push/pull towards the back of the computer.
> 
> The air being cool while the readings being high points to false readings, if your VRM's northbridge etc were reaching over 100c the air coming out would feel like holding your hand over a toaster.



Right... The air is cool.  But so far I have not witnessed it reaching the ridiculous temps, they only miraculously show up when I return to my computer from idle and see it's reported a new ridiculous max temp.



Tatty_One said:


> I would stick another fan on that Rad straight off, I presume that existing fan is sucking out and not blowing the hot air back in.



So right now it's intake->radiator.  I should get another fan and change it to intake->radiator->intake?  One sucking air in from the outside into the radiator, and the next one sucking air from the radiator to the inside of the case?  Can I just add a simple fan like this in and plug it in somewhere on the board?


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## chuck216 (Mar 16, 2016)

jed said:


> So right now it's intake->radiator.  I should get another fan and change it to intake->radiator->intake?  One sucking air in from the outside into the radiator, and the next one sucking air from the radiator to the inside of the case?  Can I just add a simple fan like this in and plug it in somewhere on the board?



No  from the rear of the computer it should be Exhaust<Radiator<Exhaust your rear case fan should *NEVER * be an intake under any circumstances, especially when using a radiator it means the radiator is pumping hot air off it into the interior of your case... that could be the cause of your high MB temps.

After thinking about this Jed I'm wondering what you did with the original tri-cool Antec fan that was in the rear exhaust position of your case originally, because the way to set up that Radiator would have been to mount it to the existing fan on your case with that fan set on high via the switch on it and the fan that came with the H80 plugged into the CPU header set to push through the radiator towards the back of the computer and in the BIOS setting the CPU fan to run at 100% as thermal control  is iffy when using a radiator.

Oh BTW I happen to know for a fact this is the cause of your shutdowns... the fan and radiator were blowing hot air off of it directly onto your VRM's which are right next to the radiator.  The VRMs on a GA-990FXA-UD3 are very sensitive to heat especially the Rev 3 and lower models  they drop voltage if they get too hot and the lowered voltage is too low to support your overclock, triggering a hard shutdown.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Mar 16, 2016)

I say this is perfect justification to get yourself a decent IR Thermometer. I bought mine to verify chipset (system), CPU and GPU temps, but I use it all the time to check the frying pan, grill, refrigerator, freezer, coffee warmer, HVAC thermostat, foreheads (not eyes), and more. I have found it to be an indispensable tool.


----------



## jed (Mar 17, 2016)

chuck216 said:


> No  from the rear of the computer it should be Exhaust<Radiator<Exhaust your rear case fan should *NEVER * be an intake under any circumstances, especially when using a radiator it means the radiator is pumping hot air off it into the interior of your case... that could be the cause of your high MB temps.
> 
> After thinking about this Jed I'm wondering what you did with the original tri-cool Antec fan that was in the rear exhaust position of your case originally, because the way to set up that Radiator would have been to mount it to the existing fan on your case with that fan set on high via the switch on it and the fan that came with the H80 plugged into the CPU header set to push through the radiator towards the back of the computer and in the BIOS setting the CPU fan to run at 100% as thermal control  is iffy when using a radiator.
> 
> Oh BTW I happen to know for a fact this is the cause of your shutdowns... the fan and radiator were blowing hot air off of it directly onto your VRM's which are right next to the radiator.  The VRMs on a GA-990FXA-UD3 are very sensitive to heat especially the Rev 3 and lower models  they drop voltage if they get too hot and the lowered voltage is too low to support your overclock, triggering a hard shutdown.



Hey there.  I think you may have misunderstood or I miscommunicated.  The CPU fan and radiator are on the side.  The rear of my case has the tri-speed fan as an exhaust.


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## Mr.Scott (Mar 17, 2016)

jed said:


> Hey there.  I think you may have misunderstood or I miscommunicated.  The CPU fan and radiator are on the side.  The rear of my case has the tri-speed fan as an exhaust.


I understood your setup. I personally would move that rad to the back of the case with the 2 fans push/pull to the rear, and the tri-cool to the side as intake.


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## trog100 (Mar 17, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> I say this is perfect justification to get yourself a decent IR Thermometer. I bought mine to verify chipset (system), CPU and GPU temps, but I use it all the time to check the frying pan, grill, refrigerator, freezer, coffee warmer, HVAC thermostat, foreheads (not eyes), and more. I have found it to be an indispensable tool.


 
an essential tool i am surprised they dont get more of a mention.. 

trog


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## chuck216 (Mar 17, 2016)

jed said:


> Hey there.  I think you may have misunderstood or I miscommunicated.  The CPU fan and radiator are on the side.  The rear of my case has the tri-speed fan as an exhaust.



Take a REAL good look at the picture you posted,   Where is that radiator mounted?



jed said:


> No, the air is pretty cool coming out of my top exhaust.  I don't have anything running like that.  Maybe Google Chrome sitting in the back ground is all.
> 
> I have a side vent in my case.  It's the side vent, an intake fan, and then the H60 radiator.  This is a Google pic, but it's like this, but on the side of my case and not the back.



That's the rear exhaust port the radiator is mounted to not the side panel and I stand by my original statement  if you choose to not make sure the hot air from that rad is going to the outside of the rear of the case then there's not much I can do.

edit. The only way it's possible to consider that a "side" fan and the top fan a "rear" fan is if your computer is laying on it's side which still doesn't change what they really are.


----------



## jaggerwild (Mar 17, 2016)

That fan up top, looks like it can move some volume. I would move the rad to the case(put the fan out side the case)behind it. I'd also replace that fan with a high volume air mover, them pre-made unit's seem to clog up n bog down over time. Prolly use jelly inside them, if you can get where you can look inside the PSU see if its got dust bunnies. Also look for bad caps(bulging top or button), if they look old n aged and you do run it over night a lot try swapping it for a newer one. Or if you have a micro center near buy one if it does fix then return it MC is pretty good with returns.


----------



## Mr.Scott (Mar 17, 2016)

chuck216 said:


> Take a REAL good look at the picture you posted,   Where is that radiator mounted?
> 
> .


Read closely.



> I have a side vent in my case. It's the side vent, an intake fan, and then the H60 radiator. *This is a Google pic*, but it's like this, but on the side of my case and not the back.


----------



## 95Viper (Mar 17, 2016)

If my curiosity is off and there are legit reasons for the points I made, I apologize.

ALSO, where do you have the pump and radiator fan plugged in?

Edit:  Straightened out by, Mr.Scott.


----------



## Mr.Scott (Mar 17, 2016)

OY.......Let's try this again.

*Read closely.*

I have a side vent in my case. It's the side vent, an intake fan, and then the H60 radiator.*This is a Google pic*, but it's like this, but on the side of my case and not the back.


*The pic is not of his system people.*​


----------



## 95Viper (Mar 17, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> OY.......Let's try this again.
> 
> *Read closely.*
> 
> ...



Yep, to much of the green brew today.  Thanks, Mr.Scott.

If his radiator is mounted on the side... it would work; but, that would seem inconvenient.
It would help if the OP would post some pics of his/her system.

Just wondering... never used that MB... could it be possible the point he/she has connected the pump is going to a reduced power state at idle?  And, not making a satisfactory flow of coolant through the system.


----------



## jed (Mar 17, 2016)

Thanks for clearing it up, Mr Scott.  I have gone back to that post and bolded the words to make it more clear.  So would a 1200 RPM fan work well for the second radiator fan?  To clear it up, I would rearrange the fans and radiator to...

Side: 1 120mm Intake fan.
Rear: 1 120 mm Exhaust fan, H60 Radiator, 1 120mm Exhaust fan?

The H60 setup would be pulling hot air from the case and CPU as opposed to feeding it cooler air from the outside?  Just making sure I have this right.

Aside:

I returned from a full 10 hour day of work.  Reported max temps from HWMonitor were 88, 43, 58 from the MoBo.


----------



## 95Viper (Mar 18, 2016)

jed said:


> Thanks for clearing it up, Mr Scott.  I have gone back to that post and bolded the words to make it more clear.  So would a 1200 RPM fan work well for the second radiator fan?  To clear it up, I would rearrange the fans and radiator to...
> 
> Side: 1 120mm Intake fan.
> Rear: 1 120 mm Exhaust fan, H60 Radiator, 1 120mm Exhaust fan?
> ...



yes, that would be it.


----------



## jed (Mar 18, 2016)

95Viper said:


> yes, that would be it.



Thanks.  And just to be sure, the weak 1200 RPM fans would work?  The H60 came with a fan, not sure of it's RPM.  If they were both different RPM's, would that cause issues?  Also - Where would I plug this new fan in?  Should I find another similar SYS_FAN slot on the MoBo?

Here is a pic of my actual board and fan setup.  The current H60 is on the side where the "camera" technically is taking the shot.  Where would I plug the new fan?  Two front intakes plug into the board, H60 intake plugs into the CPU_FAN slot, the top fan into the PSU and I thing the rear fan as well into the PSU but not 100%.  Been a while.


----------



## CAPSLOCKSTUCK (Mar 18, 2016)

You can get molex to fan header adaptors cheap enough. 

Molex one end ....6 fan headers on the other end.

Im on my phone and waaaay too thick to add a link.....sorry.


----------



## Norton (Mar 18, 2016)

A fan setup over the waterblock and VRM's would help a bunch.

Like this:


----------



## jed (Mar 18, 2016)

Norton said:


> A fan setup over the waterblock and VRM's would help a bunch.
> 
> Like this:



How on earth would you set that up?  Looks a bit custom.


----------



## Mr.Scott (Mar 18, 2016)

jed said:


> How on earth would you set that up?  Looks a bit custom.


Sometimes you have to think outside the box. 
Zip ties are wonderful things.


----------



## Norton (Mar 18, 2016)

jed said:


> How on earth would you set that up?  Looks a bit* custom*.



Ghetto is a more appropriate term 

I had an extra fan that just happened to fit nicely in there..



Mr.Scott said:


> Sometimes you have to think outside the box.
> *Zip ties are wonderful things*.



^^^ this!


----------



## 95Viper (Mar 18, 2016)

jed said:


> H60 intake plugs into the CPU_FAN



Look at the manual, Section 2-8 on pages 52 & 53, and make sure that that header "CPU_FAN" is set so the fan will run at full speed (*in this case, the pump*), Should be around 4000 rpm if you check in the "PC Health" Section of the bios.  Same goes for any fan header you plug *the pump* in.

Here is the manual for board version 1.1  --> Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 v1.1
If you are using a different version... it might look different; however, it should still be in the PC Health section.


----------



## rtwjunkie (Mar 18, 2016)

jed said:


> How on earth would you set that up?  Looks a bit custom.



A ram cooler would work. G-skill makes a nice lightweight one with decent, quiet fans.

They are useless for cooling RAM (because they really don't need it), but the downward splash of air will spread out to the sides, with one of those directions being toward your VRM heatsinks.


----------



## chuck216 (Mar 18, 2016)

OK I was confused but why would anyone looking for system advice post a pic of someone else's computer?

Now to be honest though I personally would move the Radiator from the side panel to the top fan position and use that to suck the hot air off the radiator, and then use the side panel as an intake.


I apologize for my confusion.


----------



## jed (Jul 19, 2016)

Alright... I've done the following:

- Deep cleaned the computer.
- Moved the radiator to the rear instead of the side.
- Set my GPU and CPU at stock settings.

It still does it.  Here are some more clues:

When I backup my computer, it shuts down.  I try to run CHKDSK and "force dismount", but when I hit it it does nothing.  Could the issue be some corrupt areas in my hard drive causing shutdowns?

When I try to boot into safe mode, it gets stuck at "avgidseh.sys" and it won't start in safe mode.




After rebooting from that safe mode crash, it won't load windows.  A bunch of tiny black multicolored rectangles appear at the very top of the screen.  I have to do a system restore ro reboot.




My computer is... fugged.


----------



## Mr.Scott (Jul 20, 2016)

jed said:


> Alright... I've done the following:
> 
> - Deep cleaned the computer.
> - Moved the radiator to the rear instead of the side.
> ...



Borked AVG update. Un-install AVG, re-boot.


----------



## jed (Jul 20, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> Borked AVG update. Un-install AVG, re-boot.



Reccommendation for a different antivirus?  Less invasive, free, just as good?  I've heard of Bitdefender, Avast...


----------



## rtwjunkie (Jul 20, 2016)

jed said:


> Reccommendation for a different antivirus?  Less invasive, free, just as good?  I've heard of Bitdefender, Avast...



For right now, in order to get running, and have protection with few resources, and no interaction needed by you, go with Bitdefender Free.  Avast is my favorite, but it's a larger install, and probably not what you need to be worrying about now.


----------



## jed (Jul 20, 2016)

rtwjunkie said:


> For right now, in order to get running, and have protection with few resources, and no interaction needed by you, go with Bitdefender Free.  Avast is my favorite, but it's a larger install, and probably not what you need to be worrying about now.



I am running and up to speed now after system restore... AVG is uninstalled.  I will download Avast and give that a try!


----------



## thesmokingman (Jul 20, 2016)

Ya know, Avast acquired AVG.


----------



## jed (Jul 20, 2016)

I don't get this. What the Hell would cause this on startup?





Also, after avg uninstall, even bootin PC in Safe Mode will not let me run check disk. Rebooting after doing check on reboot does nothing either.


----------



## Toothless (Jul 20, 2016)

Did anyone advise sfc /scannow in elevated cmd? I'm not reading through 4 pages of posts after my bed time.


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 20, 2016)

Graphics card issue will cause that glitch shown on the monitor.
Connect to onboard graphics to see if that functions correctly


----------



## jed (Jul 20, 2016)

Toothless said:


> Did anyone advise sfc /scannow in elevated cmd? I'm not reading through 4 pages of posts after my bed time.



Not that I recall. Tell me more.  What will this scan for?


----------



## jed (Jul 20, 2016)

Caring1 said:


> Graphics card issue will cause that glitch shown on the monitor.
> Connect to onboard graphics to see if that functions correctly



I'll try this. Why would it run a game full speed, but not be able to generate the startup splash screen?  It usually does load - it always has 4 or 5 of those lines on the top left.  Randomly though it won't startup and give a full set of then across the top of the screen.


----------



## Toothless (Jul 20, 2016)

jed said:


> Not that I recall. Tell me more.  What will this scan for?


Everything in the registry i think. Fixed my rigs a few times.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jul 20, 2016)

jed said:


> What will this scan for?


"sfc" stands for System File Checker. As noted here, it scans for corrupted Windows system files and, when possible restores them.


----------



## jed (Jul 21, 2016)

Thanks guys.  I am confused though - how could it be a video card issue?  My computer didn't boot up 5 minutes ago and got those colors at the top of the screen.  Booting up from "Last Known Configuration" worked.  What would that have to do with the video card?  I feel like all these problems are linked to one issue.

*The result was "Windows Resource Protection did not find any integrity violations."*


----------



## jed (Jul 21, 2016)

There it goes again... Random shutdown.  Doing a virus scan with Avast and playing League.  No overclocking on GPU or CPU.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jul 21, 2016)

I think you need to regroup and summarize everything that you have done in an attempt to fix this. Not many are going to want to go back through 6 pages of posts to see where we really are.


----------



## jed (Jul 21, 2016)

Here's a refresher on the issue:

[quoute]Recently it has been randomly shutting down completely out of nowhere. It's like the power cord gets unplugged from the wall. No warnings or anything, just a 'click' and a dead computer. Reboots up fine with the typical "start normally or in safe mode?" prompt.  This can happen both during idle and during gameplay - no rhyme or reason.[/quote]

Other issues:
Won't bootup sometimes (view above picture), have to go back to "last known configuration"
Can't backup PC - shuts down during backup
Can't run CHKDSK of my data/storage drive even after hitting "force dismount"
Can't run antivirus scan - shuts down during scan.

Suggestions from others:
- Dying PSU - still possible
- Unstable CPU and GPU Overclock - ruled out, reverted to stock settings
- Heat / Inadequate cooling - ruled out, reverted to no OC and still dies after hours of idle
- Weak 12v rail
- Open side panel and blast air for cooling - ruled out, did this and still shut down

So here's what I've done so far with no avail.
- Deep cleaned the PC
- Replaced 140mm top fan (it was dying)
- Moved my CPU cooler/radiator from side vent to rear vent, exhaust.
- Disabled ALL overclocks
- Ran "SFC Scan Now" - clean result
- Blasted a fan into the case
- Uninstalled AVG and replaced with Avast (AVG files were preventing safe mode bootup)
- Upgraded to latest GPU drivers

About to try the last resort of the PSU, but that probably won't solve the "other issues".  I feel like there's a deeper problem here.

Update: 
I just took the PC apart to reconnect all the wires and pins.  I also removed the PSU and cleaned if - if was filthy.  Upon reconnecting, the computer just clicks once, the fans spin for a split second, and it shuts off.  I have verified everything is connected properly... did I somehow just trigger the last breath of my PSU?


----------



## Agility (Jul 21, 2016)

Hmm not sure if this is adequate but have you considered formatting? (Didn't read through all the posts as it was way too long). Assuming your "Deep Clean" meant clearing dusts on your parts.

Get a mate that lives near you and try swapping parts to check them individually. Other things you can consider looking at are the capacitors on the motherboard (Or your PSU if you don't mind taking it apart to confirm a potential failure of the PSU).


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jul 21, 2016)

Agility said:


> (Didn't read through all the posts as it was way too long).


That's why I asked for a summary which Jed nicely provided.

I do not recommend formatting and reinstalling. That should ALWAYS be a last resort option as it often doesn't fix anything, results in being behind months or years in security updates, you lose all your data and installed programs. Even if it does fix it, you don't learn anything to help prevent recurrence.

More importantly, as Jed noted, his system shutdowns like yanking the power cord from the wall. And the problems appear long before the boot drive is even touched. That clearly is not an OS problem but obviously a hardware issue and most likely power issue.

While it could be leaky motherboard capacitors, those problems are less common these days. You really need to swap in a known good PSU since everything else inside the computer depends on good, clean, stable power.


----------



## jed (Jul 21, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> That's why I asked for a summary which Jed nicely provided.
> 
> I do not recommend formatting and reinstalling. That should ALWAYS be a last resort option as it often doesn't fix anything, results in being behind months or years in security updates, you lose all your data and installed programs. Even if it does fix it, you don't learn anything to help prevent recurrence.
> 
> ...



Do you think this would work for my system, or is it too small?  I currently have 650W.

http://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemnumber=N82E16817139027&ignorebbr=1


----------



## DRDNA (Jul 21, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> While it could be leaky motherboard capacitors, those problems are less common these days. You really need to swap in a known good PSU since everything else inside the computer depends on good, clean, stable power.


 I would also even before trying a different PSU look at the tops of all your capacitors for any upward bulging, even though it happens less often it still happens. If you dont find any then try PSU swap around.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jul 21, 2016)

I'm a little confused because I am seeing way back on page one, many people, including me, suggesting you try a different PSU. At the time, you said you had a 700W Antec PSU in there and now you are saying 650W. So have you already swapped out supplies?

The CX is Corsair's next to bottom line and doesn't have the best reputation. I would not buy one but if I had one laying around, I would use it temporarily for a test. If you system is the one listed in your System Specs, it should have enough power.


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 22, 2016)

Have the boot issues been fixed?

Edit: after reading the entire thread, my eyes are bleeding. 

I've seen that squiggly line on a monitor before, IIRC its from a borked and dirty driver install.

There could be various windows settings as an excuse for the computer to shut down, like hibernate is enabled. Another is BIOS settings, like the temp monitor is enabled and not set correctly.

That case doenst have a lot of room to install an AIO without it getting in the way of something or other. The best placement is in the top exhaust slot with the fan on the outside of the case to elevate the radiator as far away from the mobo, yet close enough to the rear exhaust fan so that the radiator's push fan is not pulling in hot air and pushing it thru the radiator.


IF the PSU is indeed having heat issues, I give my very Ghetto case mod suggestion : Create a partition from something like cardboard long enough to _almost_ reach the front intake fans installed in such a way that will deflect some of the intake towards the PSU intake.

Or, if you are feeling really froggy , create a vent in the bottom of the case and install another intake fan.


----------



## jed (Jul 23, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> I'm a little confused because I am seeing way back on page one, many people, including me, suggesting you try a different PSU. At the time, you said you had a 700W Antec PSU in there and now you are saying 650W. So have you already swapped out supplies?
> 
> The CX is Corsair's next to bottom line and doesn't have the best reputation. I would not buy one but if I had one laying around, I would use it temporarily for a test. If you system is the one listed in your System Specs, it should have enough power.



Thanks Bill.  I'm sorry for the confusion.  I have not swapped the PSU.  I thought it was 700 but when I took it out to clean it I found it was 650.  My dad is bringing a spare today to test. Hopefully I can get it to at least boot.


----------



## jed (Jul 23, 2016)

DRDNA said:


> I would also even before trying a different PSU look at the tops of all your capacitors for any upward bulging, even though it happens less often it still happens. If you dont find any then try PSU swap around.



The capacitors look good. However, upon further inspection, I found the Northbridge Heatsink to be quite loose.  Sounds like tons of different solutions to remedy it including screws and thermal paste, any suggestions?

Edit:  After reading more, it sounds like this is the regular design.  It has push-pins with springs; it re-seats itself when I stop messing with it... it's just "loose" I guess.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jul 23, 2016)

jed said:


> I found the Northbridge to be quite loose


What??? That's pretty much impossible as the chipset is typically surface mounted (soldered) directly to the motherboard. Did you mean the Northbridge's heatsink?

Note the temperature of the Northbridge is typically (though not always) designed in hardware monitoring as the "system" temp. And if that gets too high, it can certainly result in an unstable system.

If the heatsink is loose, then you need unplug the computer from the wall, touch bare metal of the case interior to discharge any static in your body, Then carefully remove the heatsink. Thoroughly clean it and the chipset IC (frequently touching bare metal again to keep static down) and apply a fresh new layer of TIM (thermal interface material).

If the heatsink is secured by a clamping mechanism and screws, use normal TIM as you would with a CPU. If there is no mechanism to hold the heatsink in place, you need to use "adhesive" TIM like this.


----------



## jed (Jul 23, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> What??? That's pretty much impossible as the chipset is typically surface mounted (soldered) directly to the motherboard. Did you mean the Northbridge's heatsink?
> 
> Note the temperature of the Northbridge is typically (though not always) designed in hardware monitoring as the "system" temp. And if that gets too high, it can certainly result in an unstable system.
> 
> ...



It's this circled unit here (From another persons picture.)  My HWMonitor temps are currently reading at idle:

TMPIN0 31C
TMPIN1 61C
TMPIN2 70C

After reading, it actually sounds like you're supposed to be able to wiggle it.  It has the push pins with the springs.  I can wiggle it but it re-seats itself... I just assumed it was supposed to be tight on there.  Regardless, the temps on this board are huge...

Also, newbie mistake with the computer not booting up... I checked the RAM for gunk or dust, and didn't get them seated properly.  I can now boot up, so the PSU is working as it was before.


----------



## jed (Jul 23, 2016)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> Have the boot issues been fixed?
> 
> Edit: after reading the entire thread, my eyes are bleeding.
> 
> ...



Do you think it's the GPU driver, then?  I assume I should safe mode boot and remove the driver and reinstall.  Hibernate is not enabled, but I will check the BIOS settings.  They haven't changed, but I don't think it'll make a difference (temp monitor) since it shuts off at idle as well when temps are "low".  Interesting on the cooler placement - I could try it out.  That's an interesting suggestion about diverting air to the PSU... Worth a shot.  I am afraid of losing airflow to the rest of the components via the partition - everything runs hot enough as it is.


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 23, 2016)

jed said:


> It's this circled unit here (From another persons picture.)  My HWMonitor temps are currently reading at idle:
> 
> TMPIN0 31C
> TMPIN1 61C
> ...


No the Northbridge heat sink shouldnt just wiggle, it can move but it should be a bit difficult to do so. It should feel like pushing large heavy furniture across a carpeted room, any less and your thermal paste hardened up and cracked or if its a thermal pad, its damaged. The Northbridge could contribute to your woes, not sure exactly sure.



jed said:


> Do you think it's the GPU driver, then?  I assume I should safe mode boot and remove the driver and reinstall.  Hibernate is not enabled, but I will check the BIOS settings.  They haven't changed, but I don't think it'll make a difference (temp monitor) since it shuts off at idle as well when temps are "low".  Interesting on the cooler placement - I could try it out.  That's an interesting suggestion about diverting air to the PSU... Worth a shot.  I am afraid of losing airflow to the rest of the components via the partition - everything runs hot enough as it is.



You wont lose air flow, unless you completely block it off. The diversion is only to direct 1 intake fans air flow towards the PSU, directing it as close to the PSU without blocking it from the rest of the case. Its pretty simple do do. If could make you a drawing I would.


----------



## AceTheBass (Jul 24, 2016)

sound like bad capacitors in psu not worth fixing if you have no knowledge on it or if its a cheap supply but if you find caps in it wit domed tops its bad caps are for power management they stabilize power outputs by first charging say 12v and if there is a sudden power drop say 12 drops to 10 the cap will replace that for a short time depending on its capacity or if the voltage rises to 14 it will charge to that so it the capacitor goes bad that can lead to you pc dying especially if your gaming because it requires more power. so if you have the know how fix it if not buy a new one.


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 24, 2016)

AceTheBass said:


> sound like bad capacitors in psu not worth fixing if you have no knowledge on it or if its a cheap supply but if you find caps in it wit domed tops its bad caps are for power management they stabilize power outputs by first charging say 12v and if there is a sudden power drop say 12 drops to 10 the cap will replace that for a short time depending on its capacity or if the voltage rises to 14 it will charge to that so it the capacitor goes bad that can lead to you pc dying especially if your gaming because it requires more power. so if you have the know how fix it if not buy a new one.


These days its cost efficient to buy a new PSU, a one year's worth of warranty is worth 25%(-ish) of that cost if you are paying over $150 (US) for said PSU.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Jul 24, 2016)

jed said:


> After reading, it actually sounds like you're supposed to be able to wiggle it.


No, that is not how it is intended.

Those type spring mounts only wiggle because the downward pressure is applied by springs. And springs are used to apply even pressure. Once you apply a proper layer of TIM and mount the heatsink, you leave it alone. If you wiggle it after that, you will break the cured bond of the TIM and that then requires you remove the heatsink, clean the mating surfaces and apply a fresh new layer of TIM. If you don't break the cured bond, the TIM last and remain effective for years upon years. But as soon as the cured bond is broken, insulating air gets in between the mating surfaces and that is bad.


----------



## DeathtoGnomes (Jul 24, 2016)

I had to correct the spelling on what I said, *you shouldnt be able to just wiggle it* as Bill said. IF your thermal paste/TIM is the curing type, its the same as a thermal pads, if they wiggle they more then likely "broken loose" and should be replaced as soon as possible.


----------



## jed (Jul 25, 2016)

I've got a spare PSU in there but it doesn't have the right connections for my 7950.  Right now it's just sitting there running with blank screens.  MoBo does not have onboard GPU.  If it shuts off again then we'll know the PSU is probably not the issue.

Using PSU calculators, one tells me 450 watts while the other told me 815 watts... could you guys give your input on what would be sufficient?  I am looking at new units in case the PSU is the issue.  Right now I have a 650 and for the first 2 or 3 years that seemed to work well enough.  Would that 600 to 700 range be good?


----------



## Mr.Scott (Jul 25, 2016)

jed said:


> I've got a spare PSU in there but it doesn't have the right connections for my 7950.  Right now it's just sitting there running with blank screens.  MoBo does not have onboard GPU.  If it shuts off again then we'll know the PSU is probably not the issue.


Wait....you have no onboard GPU, and you have no power connected to your 7950, so how did it even boot?


----------



## jed (Jul 25, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> Wait....you have no onboard GPU, and you have no power connected to your 7950, so how did it even boot?



I am not sure.  Maybe I am miscommunicating.  The GPU is powered up and running (maybe via the MoBo?) But it requires 2 6 pin slots and this backup only has one 6 pin.  The computer is running, just no video (blank screens.)

Also, here is the inside of my 650W PSU.


----------



## Caring1 (Jul 25, 2016)

Have you got a Molex to 6 pin adapter to plug in the second slot on the GPU?
You should be able to get a picture that way.


----------



## jed (Aug 3, 2016)

Caring1 said:


> Have you got a Molex to 6 pin adapter to plug in the second slot on the GPU?
> You should be able to get a picture that way.



I do not have one of those adapters.  However, after four days of the test PSU running the PC at idle and no shutdowns or issues, I ordered a new PSU.  I got a 80 Bronze CX600 from Corsair.  So far, no issues.  The PC was shutting down often, sometimes several times per day.  So far it hasn't shut down yet.  It's possible it was indeed the faulty PSU.  A few more days time should tell.


----------



## jed (Aug 16, 2016)

Alright, guys.

I replaced the PSU with a brand new unit.  I thought it may have fixed the issue as I have not recieved any hard shut downs at idle.  However, the other day, playing Diablo TWO (my internet was out), I had a hard shutdown again.

Also, loading up Leage of Legends and simply PATCHING the game causes the computers screens to freeze - the fans slow down and I am forced to reboot.  I haven't even been able to play the game.

Before the freeze, I saw the CPU temp at 85C and one of the MoBo temps at 96C.  Is it time to call it quits and just buy a new MoBo and CPU cooler?  There is no way my PC should be shutting down running Diablo II or patching a game.


----------



## Bill_Bright (Aug 16, 2016)

jed said:


> I saw the CPU temp at 85C


That's most likely your problem. As I said in my first reply way back in March on page 1 of this thread in post #10.

I see where you have changed the two front fans to intakes and you cleaned out the interior but your temps are still too high. I question now if your aftermarket cooler is working properly.

Not enough coffee yet to read back through this whole thread, but you said CPU radiator so you need to verify the pump is working, the system does not have air in it, it is mounted properly on the CPU, and the bond for the TIM has not been broken. You don't need to replace the TIM just because x amount of time has passed, but you must replace the TIM if the bond has been broken as that will let insulating air in.

I think you should consider replacing your CPU cooler with conventional cooling - even the OEM cooler. Reset any overclocking back to the defaults, then see what happens. If still over heating, something else is wrong - like a failing motherboard.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Aug 16, 2016)

Changing the thermal coumpound on the cpu does help also cleaning fans. If it still fails, get a new cpu and motherboard. Also you might for testing purposes get another motherboard for that old cpu.


----------



## jed (Aug 20, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> That's most likely your problem. As I said in my first reply way back in March on page 1 of this thread in post #10.
> 
> I see where you have changed the two front fans to intakes and you cleaned out the interior but your temps are still too high. I question now if your aftermarket cooler is working properly.
> 
> ...



Hey Bill, thanks for the reply.  I do agree with your post #10 about the CPU temp causing shutdown, but the issue also included sometimes the PC would power off even at idle when doing nothing.  The CPU temp wasn't high during those times, so I feel it's something more.  I am going to grab the stock cooler from home and replace the H60 with the stock cooler and monitor temps.  I will also reapply some thermal compound where needed.  OC was reset a while ago and has been running bone stock settings.

I have been thinking about just scrapping this MoBo and replacing.  Not to mention, a thunder storm just zapped my ethernet port the other night, so that's toast as well.  If I can get my system to run stable again, it will still perform to my standards.  The CPU and GPU are still beasts.  What are the thoughts on a solid $100 range motherboard with good performance?  I am thinking this MSI board looks solid and will support an upgraded GPU and CPU in the future as well.  I am not too in the groove with 990 vs 970, but I only plan on running one GPU and it sounds like the two PCI x16 slots are the biggest difference with 990?  I do overclock my CPU and GPU if that makes a difference.


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## jed (Aug 22, 2016)

It's a miracle!

I removed all the components from the computer.  I replaced the crustly old H60 with the stock cooler for now, and removed the MOSFET and Northbridge MoBo Heatsink and added new paste and some nylon washers to tighten the connection. 

The MoBo is idling around 35 with no programs running, and the CPU at around 30 with no programs running.  Earlier, it they were idling at around 50/55.  I will try to download the patch that has been giving me a 100% crash every time, and see if I can complete it now!

Edit:  SHE LIVES!  I was finally able to execute that patch that has been putting my MoBo at 90C and CPU at 85C and making it shut down... The max temps for the patch now was 57C MoBo and 45C CPU!

We will see if this somehow solves the random power-downs at idle as well!


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## Mr.Scott (Aug 22, 2016)

They weren't random. It was thermal shutdown as stated in the first 20 posts.
I'll bet it's fine now.


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## Bill_Bright (Aug 22, 2016)

jed said:


> Edit: SHE LIVES!


Great! I am glad it appears to be sorted out.  I hope it holds and good news for OEM cooler fans like me, and for OEM cooler doubters too!


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## Caring1 (Aug 22, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> Great! I am glad it appears to be sorted out.  I hope it holds and good news for OEM cooler fans like me, and for OEM cooler doubters too!


News flash, stock cooler does the job it is designed for .............. WHEN thermal paste is renewed and applied correctly.


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## jed (Aug 23, 2016)

Mr.Scott said:


> They weren't random. It was thermal shutdown as stated in the first 20 posts.
> I'll bet it's fine now.



I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not.  Was it thermal shutdown when my computer was idling in the middle of the night, with no programs running, cool as can be?  I doubt it - but I guess anything can happen.  I do hope it somehow was, so I'll never have to experience this nightmare again!


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## jed (Aug 23, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> Great! I am glad it appears to be sorted out.  I hope it holds and good news for OEM cooler fans like me, and for OEM cooler doubters too!



Right, Bill!  I am ashamed to say I was so excited to OC this computer when I built it that I didn't even apply the stock cooler - I went straight for the "liquid cooling".  I just brought it out of the tin from 3-4 years ago with the thermal pad good as new.


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## Bill_Bright (Aug 23, 2016)

jed said:


> Right, Bill! I am ashamed to say I was so excited to OC this computer when I built it that I didn't even apply the stock cooler - I went straight for the "liquid cooling". I just brought it out of the tin from 3-4 years ago with the thermal pad good as new.


Nothing to be "ashamed" of. It worked fine for several years, right? So no harm done.



Caring1 said:


> News flash, stock cooler does the job it is designed for .............. WHEN thermal paste is renewed and applied correctly.


Totally agree with the first part, not the second, but definitely the third!

Yes, stock coolers do the job (if not extreme overclocking AND with properly configured case cooling).
No, thermal paste does not need to be "renewed" unless (and always when) the cured bond between the mating surfaces has been broken.
Yes, it always must be applied correctly (to include thorough cleaning of old TIM (thermal interface material)before applying new).
It is a common misconception that TIM must be regularly replaced, but it is just not true. TIM will last 10, 15 years or even longer if not disturbed. There are NO, not a single CPU or GPU maker, computer maker, aftermarket cooler maker, or even a TIM maker that says TIM must be "renewed" just because it is X number of months or years old. Not one! Even if it dries out, the "heat _conductive_" solids that remain are still occupying the microscopic pits and valleys thus preventing unwanted _insulating_ air from getting in. So it is still doing its job. The liquid portion of TIM is only there to make the TIM pliable so it can easily come out of the tube and be spread thin and evenly over the processor.

Since CPU/GPU makers, computer makers, and aftermarket cooler makers want their products to work right, they would recommend regular "renewal" or replacement of TIM *IF* it was necessary. But not a single one does! Not Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, Dell, HP, Cooler Master, Corsair, Noctua, TT, Zalman, Be Quiet! - none of them.

True, over several years, some TIMs become _slightly_ less effective. But if you really need those _few _degrees to prevent crossing the threshold into "hot" territory to where the CPU becomes unstable or starts to throttle down, then you have other problems to deal with - like a broken cured bond/loose heatsink, bad CPU fan, dust filled interior, inadequate case cooling, bad voltages or improperly implemented clockspeeds.

Too often, and sadly often due to bad advice, less experienced (or just careless) users have destroyed their processors (or sockets) through mishandling due to ESD, failure to remove all power, bent pins, poor cleaning, or improper application of new TIM that never needed to be replaced in the first place. 

If it's not broke, don't fix it!


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## Mr.Scott (Aug 24, 2016)

jed said:


> I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not.  Was it thermal shutdown when my computer was idling in the middle of the night, with no programs running, cool as can be?  I doubt it - but I guess anything can happen.  I do hope it somehow was, so I'll never have to experience this nightmare again!


It's thermal shutdown when your AIO is malfunctioning, sure. That can absolutely happen at anytime.


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## Bill_Bright (Aug 24, 2016)

I agree, it can happen at anytime, but it is not likely heat related if it happens in the middle of the night. More likely some background function is running, like Windows Update or malware scan that either forces a normal reboot, or triggers a RAM fault. Or it could be a misbehaving power supply.


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## Mr.Scott (Aug 24, 2016)

Bill_Bright said:


> I agree, it can happen at anytime, but it is not likely heat related if it happens in the middle of the night. More likely some background function is running, like Windows Update or malware scan that either forces a normal reboot, or triggers a RAM fault. Or it could be a misbehaving power supply.


Pumps don't intermittently fail in the middle of the night?


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## Bill_Bright (Aug 24, 2016)

I didn't say that. Pumps can fail anytime. But if the computer is sleeping, the CPU should not be generating any heat so should not overheat.


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## Mr.Scott (Aug 24, 2016)

As long as the power is on, the CPU generates enough heat to saturate the water in the block of an AIO to the point of shutdown without a pump running. It just takes longer.


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