# Next-Gen Xbox Features Blu-ray, Will Not Play Used Games



## btarunr (Jan 26, 2012)

We've got a good news and a bad news. The good news first: Microsoft will finally embrace the capacious Blu-ray disc format as its media of choice with its next-generation Xbox console. A double-layer Blu-ray disc provides 50 GB of space, letting developers load higher-resolution elements (such as textures), and more importantly, load entire games into a single disc. The 8 GB DVD9 used with Xbox 360 is posing limitations with some titles, forcing publishers to ship games in multiple discs. The new console should also double up as a nice Blu-ray home-video player, complete with multi-channel lossless audio and 1080p playback. 

Now on to the bad news: Remember the good old days when you could share your game cartridges and discs with your friends, or resell them? Those are about to be numbered, at least in the case of the Xbox platform. Microsoft is designing its next-generation Xbox console in a way that restricts people from playing "used" games. We would imagine Microsoft doing this by binding each purchased game's activation to a Xbox Live account à la Steam, Origin, and G4WL. This is terrible news to services such as GameStop, which deal in used games and consoles.

*View at TechPowerUp Main Site*


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## THE_EGG (Jan 26, 2012)

Wow I used to buy nearly all my xbox games used. Saved a lot of money. Good thing I moved to PC gaming when I did. This will probably also affect e.g. Gamestop's/EB Games' gross income and thus affect jobs etc. Microsoft should have thought this through better. :shadedshu


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## BumbleBee (Jan 26, 2012)

I don't know about that. Nintendo wouldn't pay Sony to license Blu-ray and I don't think Microsoft will either..


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## LAN_deRf_HA (Jan 26, 2012)

I don't think using Kotaku as a source buffer some how makes this anymore legitimate, but all the same I'll quote myself on the used game issue.



> I get so sick of this bizarre entitlement game publishers think they have to be the only industry that can dodge used sales. I mean this makes zero sense that they think this is a legitimate option or complaint. If they block used game sales then they should block used DVD sales, used car sales. Wtf is this insanity? Someone round up everyone involved and beat them with sticks till they get the message. No fucking way is this going to fly with consumers. I'd expect unfavorable legislation if I were them.



In the event MS "leaked" this rumor on purpose to test the waters on this idea I think its best to make as many extremely negative remarks as possible. Go nuts, go over the top. I doubt this will be a feature now considering the response it's gotten whether they ever considered it or not.


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## badtaylorx (Jan 26, 2012)

^^^^^no. they'll just use hddvd again....maybe it'll work out this time


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## magibeg (Jan 26, 2012)

That sucks about the bad news. I guess this means if you got a group of friends together that had different games, you'd have to be constantly switching between consoles instead of swapping disks. Awesome!


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## xBruce88x (Jan 26, 2012)

da fack.... no used games? well that sux majorly. The whole reason I bother with consoles is that I can buy used. So are we gonna have CD-Keys for our console games now?


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## AsRock (Jan 26, 2012)

Maybe more bad news as some are saying it's going be running on a 6670

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-25-next-xbox-gpu-based-on-50-radeon-hd-6670-card-report


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## xBruce88x (Jan 26, 2012)

6670... well its still leaps and bounds faster than its current gpu.


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## Lipton (Jan 26, 2012)

The 360 dev kit used R420 whereas it was transitioned to R500 (R520 with bits from R600) upon release. May very well be a similar story here regarding the 6670.


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## DonInKansas (Jan 26, 2012)

No used games = no go.


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## Soylent Joe (Jan 26, 2012)

What assholes. Surely you'll still be able to play a used game if you disconnect the console from the internet, right?


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## xBruce88x (Jan 26, 2012)

now that i think about it... i'm sure there will be a homebrew way to play used games w/o an internet connection on a spare xbox at the very least. (or with a spare xbox hdd)


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## mcloughj (Jan 26, 2012)

I remember that the PS3(way before release) was rumoured to burn disks so that they would only play on the first machine that they were placed into, but they backed down. 

Fingers crossed the same will happen with this idea.

I couldn't see myself buying one if this kind of implementation was used.


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## 2wicked (Jan 26, 2012)

badtaylorx said:


> ^^^^^no. they'll just use hddvd again....maybe it'll work out this time


If I were microsoft I would put a hd-dvd drive in the next gen xbox.
It would cut down piracy having game disks as hd-dvds only.
hd-dvd burner,blank hd-dvds where are you going to find those? dead format ftw.


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## Red_Machine (Jan 26, 2012)

2wicked said:


> If I were microsoft I would put a hd-dvd drive in the next gen xbox.
> It would cut down piracy having game disks as hd-dvds only.
> hd-dvd burner,blank hd-dvds where are you going to find those? dead format ftw.



+1

I've been touting this for years.  Saying MS should have put an integrated HD-DVD drive into the 360S and upsing HD-DVDs as the game format would increase their capacity without paying Sony royalties for Blu-Ray or coming up with their own format, give them complete control over the format so they could do what they wanted with it, AND be cheap to produce as HD-DVDs can be made on standard DVD production lines.

Alas, it did not happen.  I highly doubt it will happen now, either.


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## BumbleBee (Jan 26, 2012)

Wii U was supposed to have 50GB Blu-ray according to pre-E3 rumors.

the only advantage the PS3 has is Blu-ray. Sony isn't going to give away something they bet everything on. Microsoft will make it's own proprietary format and copy protection like Nintendo.


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## MilkyWay (Jan 26, 2012)

What happens when games are out of "print" or just very old or hard to find new?
With digital distribution on PC you have a variety of services you can use and they all compete with each other, on xbox your stuck to whatever they charge and offer.

Microsoft are more likely to design a proprietary format and use that. Blu ray would be cheaper to use than develop a new or re design an existing format; one thing that makes me unsure is that when nvidia made graphics chips for xbox and they had a falling out, the xbox was discontinued, what if Sony suddenly took away licensing for blu ray to Microsoft?


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## 2wicked (Jan 26, 2012)

I can see nintendo and microsoft getting blu-ray,if those wild internet rumors are true about sony joining the ranks of late great console makers (atari,nec,sega,neo-geo,ect... RIP).


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## HisSvt2 (Jan 26, 2012)

what is with all the sony comments... Sony doesn't OWN blu ray lg and samsung also do bluray and they can produce drives for MS. I seriously don't think this will happen or can you say console crash of 2013!


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## BumbleBee (Jan 26, 2012)

MilkyWay said:


> What happens when games are out of "print" or just very old or hard to find new?
> With digital distribution on PC you have a variety of services you can use and they all compete with each other, on xbox your stuck to whatever they charge and offer.
> 
> Microsoft are more likely to design a proprietary format and use that. Blu ray would be cheaper to use than develop a new or re design an existing format; one thing that makes me unsure is that when nvidia made graphics chips for xbox and they had a falling out, the xbox was discontinued, what if Sony suddenly took away licensing for blu ray to Microsoft?



Microsoft has XBLA sales. 

Amazon, Best Buy, Gamestop, Target, etc all have deals like Steam and you don't have to leave your house to get them.


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## LiveOrDie (Jan 26, 2012)

> Microsoft is designing its next-generation Xbox console in a way that restricts people from playing "used" games. We would imagine Microsoft doing this by binding each purchased game's activation to a Xbox Live account à la Steam, Origin, and G4WL. This is terrible news to services such as GameStop, which deal in used games and consoles.


HAHA i don't use consoles but this is funny soon you'll be installing windows on your XBOX


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## n-ster (Jan 26, 2012)

If you want to do à la Steam DRM, then you have to have à la Steam prices


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## HisSvt2 (Jan 26, 2012)

n-ster said:


> If you want to do à la Steam DRM, then you have to have à la Steam prices



amen to that sir!


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## marcthpro (Jan 26, 2012)

*No used game ?! What about Rental game ?*

What if you can't rent a game for 7 Day for 6$ and tell if you like it or not ? just buy and hope you ain't getting a Failure like Duke nukem forever or Game that as no replay value 

What made console Great is when ur done playing a game you owned for a long time you sell it for something of near same value but now they saying it ain't gonna happen


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## BumbleBee (Jan 26, 2012)

maybe you should download the Duke Nukem Forever demo?


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## HisSvt2 (Jan 26, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> maybe you should download the Duke Nukem Forever demo?



Don't waste your bandwidth. I want the 4.99 i spent on steam for it back


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## BumbleBee (Jan 26, 2012)

haha I agree


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## KainXS (Jan 26, 2012)

So basically once you get a game your stuck with, im not buying the next xbox if this is true

I might just get a wii u instead because my ps3's and 360's have given mee to much misery over the years
and i dont even like nintendo

A steam approach would be better because you  can get a refund


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## MxPhenom 216 (Jan 26, 2012)

The used games Rumor is a RUMOR! I highly doubt it will happen or Microsoft would have shot themselves in the foot, and said fuck you to the rest of the gaming industry. I am a but mad about the 6670 GPU, it should be like a 6770 or atleast a chip similar to a 6850

The only part im excited for with this console is the Blu ray.


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## Red_Machine (Jan 26, 2012)

You're not thinking.  Consoles need less grunt because the games are optimised for the hardware for maximum efficiency.  Even back in the day when PC was king, they rarely achieved efficiency over 60% due to the widely different hardware,


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## AsRock (Jan 26, 2012)

Red_Machine said:


> You're not thinking.  Consoles need less grunt because the games are optimised for the hardware for maximum efficiency.  Even back in the day when PC was king, they rarely achieved efficiency over 60% due to the widely different hardware,



Yes i guess it's to much to hope for that they would use top end gear and use a more suitable case for the system so PC games wont suffer as they are today.


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## BumbleBee (Jan 26, 2012)

Carmack was talking about something like that. on a console you can access the hardware directly but on a PC you have to go through Windows then the GPU drivers or something.


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## JrRacinFan (Jan 26, 2012)

OK and those people who wish NOT to connect their system to the net?  What would happen there? MS better put a prerequisite on the box stating a MUST for broadband internet.


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## Red_Machine (Jan 26, 2012)

When the original XBox was in vogue, they got close to 96% efficnency or something.  Which allowed games like Burnout 3/Revenge to run on a 733MHz Pentium !!!, 64MB of shared RAM and a GeForce3.


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## NinkobEi (Jan 26, 2012)

Its just a rumor. Not sure why people are so upset


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## JrRacinFan (Jan 26, 2012)

NinkobEi said:


> Its just a rumor. Not sure why people are so upset



Hey, just playing the devil's advocate here. I know my wife's stepdad(stepfather-in-law ??) will never get any type of internet/broadband/dsl at his place,which my sister in law sticks around there alot, I do treat her kids quite a bit. Spoil them as if they are my own. SO what's to say if I buy 2 of the next gen 360's and can't take the game I purchased a license for state that I can't use it on 2 different consoles that I had purchased?! Going by what you are saying even if it is a rumor I am not allowed to be mad?


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 26, 2012)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> I doubt this will be a feature now considering the response it's gotten whether they ever considered it or not.


I'm positive it's going to happen.  This is exactly what they did with the PC version for the past decade and the big publishers like EA and Activision have complained about how much money is being "stolen" from them due to used game sales.  They know gamers are going to hate it and there's no reason to think they wouldn't do it anyway--so long as Sony does the same with their console.

Game corps always choose profits over consumer rights.  That's the bottom line.




JrRacinFan said:


> I know my wife's stepdad(stepfather-in-law ??) will never get any type of internet/broadband/dsl at his place,


Lots of PC games already not only require an internet connection for activation, but a constant connection while you play even if it is an offline single player game.  This change makes sense with this gen of consoles requiring internet for activition and the gen after this requiring internet all the time.  No internet = no console--same as more and more PC titles today.


I'm sure, for example, if your console broke and you replaced it, you could phone up Microsoft and have them transfer from your old console ID to the new console ID but I bet there's a limit to how many times you can do that in a month/year.

This shouldn't surprise anyone.  The PC market was their test bed for this.


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## Batou1986 (Jan 26, 2012)

If this is true MS just shot themselves in the knee with an arrow, I see them losing a lot of customers to PC over this which makes me happy.


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## IceCreamBarr (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm having a hard time getting my mind around this... how can someone prevent you from selling what you own?  I'm sure they've argued that users don't own the game, they've only purchased a license.  Well, then I own that license.  If there are terms, user rights, etc. a legal document, must be agreed upon by me, in writing, prior to me handing over my money.  If the financial transaction is complete and I take that game home - that license is MINE, and unfortunately for Microsoft, they did not implement proper procedures at the buying phase to fully disclose these terms - thereby passively manipulating my purchase decision.  No amount of legal jargon and user rights, after the fact, will change the legally binding monetary transaction where Microsoft "dropped the legal ball".


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## JrRacinFan (Jan 26, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Lots of PC games already not only require an internet connection for activation, but a constant connection while you play



That's PC .... this is a console ....


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 26, 2012)

IceCreamBarr said:


> I'm having a hard time getting my mind around this... how can someone prevent you from selling what you own?


Because according to the Digital Millenium Copyright Act of 1998, you don't "own" it, they do.  You're only licensed to use it and that license is not transferable.  Thanks to DMCA (there's an international equivilent adapted by the UN), restrictions like this are 100% legit (taking away your right to resale).  I think it has been challenged in court and the courts stood for DMCA and the EULA being binding.




JrRacinFan said:


> That's PC .... this is a console ....


A console is just a dumbified HTPC.  They adopted web browser, music playback, movie playback, etc. from PC technology.  Here comes the DRM too.


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## IceCreamBarr (Jan 26, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Because according to the Digital Millenium Copyright Act of 1998, you don't "own" it, they do. You're only licensed to use it and that license is not transferable. Thanks to DMCA (there's an international equivilent adapted by the UN), restrictions like this are 100% legit (taking away your right to resale). I think it has been challenged in court and the courts stood for DMCA and the EULA being binding.




Interesting (and accurate)... although the transaction proceeds in exactly the same way as a purchase.  A licensing transaction would have an additional step where both parties are made abundantly aware of the way the license will be used.  Does anyone think AMD walked into Intel and asked the secretary for the x86 license?  Licensing comes with terms: until I agree to those terms with the licensor, I'm not licensing, I'm purchasing.  And if you take my money before I deliberate the terms, well tough luck to the greedy guy who wanted my money more than he wanted a transparent transaction -> by keeping my money before I know what I bought, you have conceded to the fact that I may not use the item as you intended.


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## NinkobEi (Jan 26, 2012)

JrRacinFan said:


> Hey, just playing the devil's advocate here. I know my wife's stepdad(stepfather-in-law ??) will never get any type of internet/broadband/dsl at his place,which my sister in law sticks around there alot, I do treat her kids quite a bit. Spoil them as if they are my own. SO what's to say if I buy 2 of the next gen 360's and can't take the game I purchased a license for state that I can't use it on 2 different consoles that I had purchased?! Going by what you are saying even if it is a rumor I am not allowed to be mad?



Erm, okay. You're allowed to be whatever you want, but getting upset over something that isnt/hasn't happened is just a waste of energy. Think of the other things you (and I) could be doing with the energy used in this stupid conversation


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 26, 2012)

This will put MS def in the hot seat and the sales of the console will be abysmal. this is just another + for PC users who dont use steam/EADM etc for getting games.



AsRock said:


> Maybe more bad news as some are saying it's going be running on a 6670
> 
> http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-25-next-xbox-gpu-based-on-50-radeon-hd-6670-card-report




Ya Know the average joe which are the console players really dont care wuts underneath the hood, only if it is easy to hook up and turn on, besides console graphics are limited.


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## digibucc (Jan 26, 2012)

IceCreamBarr said:


> by keeping my money before I know what I bought, you have conceded to the fact that I may not use the item as you intended.



really though - it's conflicting policies causing that. the store policy of no opened returns, and the game's policy of the agreement when you use the software. you don't agree to the terms until you use the software, but you can't use the software until you open the package - but you can't return the package once you've opened it - so even if you don't agree to the terms you don't get your money back.

yeah it is crahp....


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## ace80 (Jan 26, 2012)

I hope this rumor is not true, i was really looking forward to the next gen console and this has seriously dampened that. It would be a seriously bad move imho.
Alot of my games are pre owened and i prob rent a couple a month.

Everything you buy through your life you can resell, how can they possibly get away with this!!
Think about if everything was like this with no reselling at all, the world would be a very crampted place with landfills full of perfectly good things and people dumping all over the land - extreme example


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## MilkyWay (Jan 26, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> Microsoft has XBLA sales.
> 
> Amazon, Best Buy, Gamestop, Target, etc all have deals like Steam and you don't have to leave your house to get them.


At least on PC like i said before there is an abundance of distribution services competing with each other. With xbox live im forced to pay whatever they set the prices at, i cant just go to another store or service. Out of print games will be done and gone forever if they dont let you use second hand games.

Your pretty much forced to buy the game new. They want to kill off the second hand and retro markets.

Some of the xbla prices have been decent but that doesnt mean they cant just charge a high price or take games off the service.

How would using your games in another console work? Say i want to take it to a friends house? Would it be linked to my xbox live account? Who knows.


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Jan 26, 2012)

xBruce88x said:


> now that i think about it... i'm sure there will be a homebrew way to play used games w/o an internet connection on a spare xbox at the very least. (or with a spare xbox hdd)



Microsoft will consider that a mod and probably ban your account permanently. Granted i dont normally buy used anything (aside from cars) but this would make me not buy the next console.


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## Mega-Japan (Jan 26, 2012)

PC games these, console games that. Here's my 2 pennies: Until Legend of Zelda is brought to me for PC, I will continue to play console games. I love PC games as much as the next guy (Elder Scrolls, Metro, Dragon Age, etc..) but they'd never replace my favorite anorexic boy in the green tunic .

That said, really disappointed about the used games thing. Then again, I was never planning on buy this nex-gen Xbox, or nex-gen PlayStation for that matter. It's just WiiU and PC for me .


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## BumbleBee (Jan 26, 2012)

MilkyWay said:


> At least on PC like i said before there is an abundance of distribution services competing with each other. With xbox live im forced to pay whatever they set the prices at, i cant just go to another store or service. Out of print games will be done and gone forever if they dont let you use second hand games.
> 
> Your pretty much forced to buy the game new. They want to kill off the second hand and retro markets.
> 
> ...



XBLA and PSN titles are tied to your account. maybe physical media will work the same, if so you just need to sign into your account and insert the disc on another console.

not being able to buy used games doesn't mean you can't collect.

I'm sure some of you had no interest in the next console to begin with...


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Jan 26, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> This will put MS def in the hot seat and the sales of the console will be abysmal. this is just another + for PC users who dont use steam/EADM etc for getting games.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Which in turn hurts PC users because of all the console ports we get.


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## BumbleBee (Jan 26, 2012)

think about all the people who only buy used games. how many of them will convert to piracy and hurt PC Gaming haha


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jan 26, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> Wii U was supposed to have 50GB Blu-ray according to pre-E3 rumors.
> 
> the only advantage the PS3 has is Blu-ray. Sony isn't going to give away something they bet everything on. Microsoft will make it's own proprietary format and copy protection like Nintendo.



I got to disagree, they would get paid for it. Xbox has been the most popular console (that isn't targeting casual gamers), and if that continues into the next generation, that could make for some good money, and also make an interesting situation with MS depending on Sony. If Sony declines and forces MS to come up with it's own media type, then the Xbox leads in sales again, all thats going to do is hurt Sony, and Bluray. Right now Bluray just doesn't have competition, and if they force M$ to give it some, that could be bad for them.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 26, 2012)

CrAsHnBuRnXp said:


> Which in turn hurts PC users because of all the console ports we get.




Thats true- UT3 was the biggest example of Cliffy B being a Fuggin Sellout- You look at all the commands on PC and they are all console related.


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## BumbleBee (Jan 26, 2012)

all publishers care about is having physical media on the shelf. all developers care about is the extra space.

if i'm Sony i'm charging Microsoft so much for that license they will be in a hole out of the gate.

if i'm Microsoft i'm creating my own proprietary format because Blu-ray sales have tanked and the license isn't worth it.


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## c12038 (Jan 26, 2012)

*MIckeysoft DRM Xbox*

If Mickeysoft think that XBOX DRM a way of making customers loyal  say DOn't buy this utter crap...... What happens when you have completed a game and your stuck with it without being able to trade it in for another game MMMmm me thinks not.... Hahahahaha no way will i be buying a system that worthless


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## v12dock (Jan 26, 2012)

$20 says they change their minds


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 26, 2012)

1Kurgan1 said:


> I got to disagree, they would get paid for it. Xbox has been the most popular console (that isn't targeting casual gamers), and if that continues into the next generation, that could make for some good money, and also make an interesting situation with MS depending on Sony. If Sony declines and forces MS to come up with it's own media type, then the Xbox leads in sales again, all thats going to do is hurt Sony, and Bluray. Right now Bluray just doesn't have competition, and if they force M$ to give it some, that could be bad for them.


Microsoft will just buy the drives from LG, Pioneer, or Samsung (they have licenses to produce Bluray hardware).  Microsoft was on the board that developed AACS (the Bluray DRM).


If Sony sues Microsoft over it, Sony will start another format war which will cost them a fortune.  They know that and won't fight it because of that.


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## freaksavior (Jan 26, 2012)

I bought most of my games new, but there are a lot I would buy used. This is disappointing.


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 26, 2012)

freaksavior said:


> I bought most of my games new, but there are a lot I would buy used. This is disappointing.



Second hand games cost less, course at those game places i always test to ensure it works...


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## OneCool (Jan 26, 2012)

What is up with all these doosh bag companies trying to rule the consumers after buying their product.

I just dont understand the world any more :shadedshu


"If you buy our refrigerator your only aloud to put NEW food in it.If we catch you putting left overs in it ,your in serious trouble"   


Makes me want to just sell everything and start going to the arcade again. YAY 1987!!!!!!!!!!


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## DannibusX (Jan 26, 2012)

I can't believe Microsoft would even try this.

Licensing Bluray from Sony, yes, they would have to if they want to move into the Xbox media center all entertainment area, but binding games to consoles/accounts?  Man they'd have to be cheap for me to buy.

Essentially it's the same thing that Steam does, but Steam does it better so if this is true, I'll just spend the money I'd buy an Xbox with and build an HTPC.  No biggie.  Voting with the wallet is awesome.


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## Platibus (Jan 26, 2012)

c12038 said:


> ... What happens when you have completed a game and your stuck with it without being able to trade it in for another game MMMmm me thinks not.... Hahahahaha no way will i be buying a system that worthless


Don't worry, in the future they'll only allow you to complete the game once, after that you'll have to pay a "small fee" to play it again LOL


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jan 26, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Microsoft will just buy the drives from LG, Pioneer, or Samsung (they have licenses to produce Bluray hardware).  Microsoft was on the board that developed AACS (the Bluray DRM).
> 
> If Sony sues Microsoft over it, Sony will start another format war which will cost them a fortune.  They know that and won't fight it because of that.



I wasn't even talking about the drives, isn't there a fee for the discs as well?


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 26, 2012)

Not that I'm aware of.  It's kind of like HDMI--they charge by the output port, not by the cable.

This is why graphics cards only had one HDMI port.  EyeInfinity and the like skipped HDMI and went straight for DisplayPort which is far less expensive.




DannibusX said:


> Essentially it's the same thing that Steam does, but Steam does it better so if this is true, I'll just spend the money I'd buy an Xbox with and build an HTPC.  No biggie.  Voting with the wallet is awesome.


How do you know Steam does it better?  I imagine it will be seamless and you won't know it is even there until you try to circumvent it.  It won't stop 90%+ of people from buying the console.  I expect Sony to include something similar in their next gen console.  This is simply the way the game market is going.  As I said previously, PC games were doing this years ago (first with serial numbers, then with online activation, now with online all the time).  This is nothing new.  It is just getting implemented on consoles.  If not this round of consoles, it will definitely be on the next.


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## NC37 (Jan 26, 2012)

No used games plus 6670 graphics...

Yeah...sorry M$, you shot yourself in the foot twice already with the 720. I'm passing.


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## DannibusX (Jan 26, 2012)

FordGT90Concept said:


> Not that I'm aware of.  It's kind of like HDMI--they charge by the output port, not by the cable.
> 
> This is why graphics cards only had one HDMI port.  EyeInfinity and the like skipped HDMI and went straight for DisplayPort which is far less expensive.
> 
> ...



How does Steam do it better.

For one, it's a service that I use, and I agreed to the limitation of resale of games.  I.E. it doesn't exist.

There is no physical media for me to worry about.  Likely Microsoft's implementation will still require you to have the media in the drive to play the game.

I'm part of the 10% of folks who really don't give too big of a crap about console gaming.  Sure, I do play games on the Xbox, but I really don't need to buy one to enjoy gaming.  I'll build an HTPC and play games on my TV with a 360 controller.  It works pretty damn good.


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## Mussels (Jan 26, 2012)

of course you can rent and second hand games... they call it 'piracy'


this will just kill the rental/second hand industry (leading to less sales in total) and encourage piracy far more. stupid move.


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## FordGT90Concept (Jan 26, 2012)

DannibusX said:


> For one, it's a service that I use, and I agreed to the limitation of resale of games.  I.E. it doesn't exist.


You agree to that the instant you start Steam.  The same goes for consoles when you turn them on.  By using either product or service, you're entering their legal domain.




DannibusX said:


> There is no physical media for me to worry about.  Likely Microsoft's implementation will still require you to have the media in the drive to play the game.


Maybe, maybe not.  They might expand the service to be like Origin or Steamworks titles where you can buy on disk or download it--the keys work for both.




DannibusX said:


> I'm part of the 10% of folks who really don't give too big of a crap about console gaming.  Sure, I do play games on the Xbox, but I really don't need to buy one to enjoy gaming.  I'll build an HTPC and play games on my TV with a 360 controller.  It works pretty damn good.


Microsoft's DRM, Steam's DRM, Sony's DRM, etc.?  It doesn't match which you pick, they all got it.  It's the reality DMCA has imposed on us all.




Mussels said:


> this will just kill the rental/second hand industry (leading to less sales in total) and encourage piracy far more. stupid move.


Pretty much.


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## GoFigureItOut (Jan 26, 2012)

How can they implement this into a gaming console? Are the disc embedded with a key or something? Microsoft will lose a lot of money on their new system. No one in their right mind would purchase the new fail box. Would this also effect used movies? I don't believe Microsoft will go through with it, they're not that dumb.


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## Delta6326 (Jan 26, 2012)

I doubt this is true, but what would you do if you have 2 people that share a console. say I get MW4(I will never do this in real life) I play online and then a friend comes along wants to play it and I don't want them to mess up my K/D normal he/she could just use their Xbox account, but know they can't.


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## NC37 (Jan 26, 2012)

GoFigureItOut said:


> How can they implement this into a gaming console? Are the disc embedded with a key or something? Microsoft will lose a lot of money on their new system. No one in their right mind would purchase the new fail box. Would this also effect used movies? I don't believe Microsoft will go through with it, they're not that dumb.



No...M$ is very much that dumb. These are the same people who convince gamers to pay a subscription to play 360 games online...if they can get away with it, they will. But they are not dumb enough to turn a def ear to a large outcry. 

Really, if enough fuss is raised, we'll see them backtrack on this plan. 

I just wish it would have happened with the Vita's PSP emulation plan. Really, PSP owners should have boycotted that crap. Paying more money for digital versions of what they already own, just so BS.


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## asusstriker (Jan 26, 2012)

Wow I remember just reading about the workers at the Microsoft Xbox factory going up on the roof about to commit suicide because of the poor wages and insane hours that their greedy corporation enslaves them to. 

Now this greedy (slave labor) corporation wants to make more profits by forcing people to buy new every time they want a game  

Gaming and it's BS expensive download content and restrictions is only going to get worse, what ever happened to the good old PS2 days were the games actually came with everything you wanted. 

Hmmm maybe it's time I give up gaming and pick up a healthy hobby like sports or something 

PS: I DARE Microsoft to pull this "No used games" off on us, lets see those sales slump!


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## Nihilus (Jan 26, 2012)

*Gamefly*

For Xbox 3 I was not planning on buying any games, just doing the gamefly deal.  Doesn't look good for that plan.


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## Aldouz (Jan 27, 2012)

marcthpro said:


> What if you can't rent a game for 7 Day for 6$ and tell if you like it or not ? just buy and hope you ain't getting a Failure like Duke nukem forever or Game that as no replay value
> 
> What made console Great is when ur done playing a game you owned for a long time you sell it for something of near same value but now they saying it ain't gonna happen


Yeah, Next-Gen XboX means No Game are actually for sale, they are for RENT for unlimited time as long as your XboX console still working...


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## eidairaman1 (Jan 27, 2012)

IIRC, MS had several games for PC that required CD to be in, I had a few no CD patches for those games so i could protect the disk. Same with COD4. Even Deus Ex was like that.



DannibusX said:


> How does Steam do it better.
> 
> For one, it's a service that I use, and I agreed to the limitation of resale of games.  I.E. it doesn't exist.
> 
> ...


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## dlpatague (Jan 27, 2012)

I thought Microsoft was counting on digital distribution and cloud storage becoming main stream and that they weren't worried about Blu-Ray or any optical storage at all. They might bring back HD-DVD for their consoles (not as in trying to make it a main stream disc format like before) from other rumors I've seen. As far as used games being not playable, I seriously doubt that would happen. But they go with the likes of the pay an extra fee to play a used game online. Who knows.


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## Syborfical (Jan 27, 2012)

Optical Media is almost dead.

One reason I will never own or use a bluray is my passionate hatred for sony. it almost equals my hatred for EA. 

The next Xbox Looks like another console I won't buy.

I borrowed a friends 360, couldn't find any games that where phun. They where okay but not phun like consoles use to be.

IMO most consoles just churn out mindless phun less games for profit.


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## ktr (Jan 27, 2012)

Optical media is far from dead when the average internet speed is not fast enough and games are becoming bigger than ever. Considering the US alone, the average speed is ~5.8Mb/s, 58% of subscribers are below 5Mb/s, and 20% of that is below 2Mb/s.


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## BumbleBee (Jan 27, 2012)

Syborfical said:


> Optical Media is almost dead.
> 
> One reason I will never own or use a bluray is my passionate hatred for sony. it almost equals my hatred for EA.
> 
> ...



are you a phreaker?


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## ViperXTR (Jan 27, 2012)

i prefer optical media, the country i live in doesn't have the best net connections and are damn expensive. Internet capping is also one reason. Most of the recent games are massive and could easily hit the download limit.


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## faramir (Jan 27, 2012)

LAN_deRf_HA said:


> In the event MS "leaked" this rumor on purpose to test the waters on this idea I think its best to make as many extremely negative remarks as possible. Go nuts, go over the top. I doubt this will be a feature now considering the response it's gotten whether they ever considered it or not.



No need to go over the top - any person with an ounce of brainmatter will realize this is a commercial suicide. Games requite the medium (optical disc) to be inserted anyway in order to play so when one lends his medium to a friend he cannot play anymore himself ... and this is no different to lending the entire console with game license somehow tied to the specific bit of hardware.

If somebody came up with this "bright" idea for real they will be getting sacked pretty soon ... for real


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## Lazzer408 (Jan 27, 2012)

It's like there challenging people to hack it.


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## MatTheCat (Jan 27, 2012)

Nihilus said:


> For Xbox 3 I was not planning on buying any games, just doing the gamefly deal.  Doesn't look good for that plan.



It wont take long for the new X-box to be hacked whenever it comes out.....just do that and dont bother paying or renting to play any of the games and game free of console one player per copy limitations.

Aside from this ridiculous DRM, If that story about the AMD 6670 turns out to be true then Microsoft can stick thier X-Box 720 right up thier monopolistic ringpieces. For a Q4 2013 scheduled console, that would be a shockingly weak GPU regardless of any 'closed system' optimisations. My gut feeling is that so long as thier is a modicum of competition from Sony, then this report cannot be true as even if Sony opted to build thier PS4 around a HD 6850 level GPU (still very cheap to do), then the X-Box 720 is simply going to look really really bad and it will fail miserably....

.....if on the otherhand Microsoft know what the competition or lack of competition is, then anything is possible in terms of just how shitty they can get away with making thier new X-Box in order to maximise profit margins....and lets face it, if thier is nothing else then people will buy it.


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## Recus (Jan 27, 2012)

MatTheCat said:


> It wont take long for the new X-box to be hacked whenever it comes out.....just do that and dont bother paying or renting to play any of the games and game free of console one player per copy limitations.
> 
> Aside from this ridiculous DRM, If that story about the AMD 6670 turns out to be true then Microsoft can stick thier X-Box 720 right up thier monopolistic ringpieces. For a Q4 2013 scheduled console, that would be a shockingly weak GPU regardless of any 'closed system' optimisations. My gut feeling is that so long as thier is a modicum of competition from Sony, then this report cannot be true as even if Sony opted to build thier PS4 around a HD 6850 level GPU (still very cheap to do), then the X-Box 720 is simply going to look really really bad and it will fail miserably....
> 
> .....if on the otherhand Microsoft know what the competition or lack of competition is, then anything is possible in terms of just how shitty they can get away with making thier new X-Box in order to maximise profit margins....and lets face it, if thier is nothing else then people will buy it.



Maybe according to rumors MS will release weaker boxes first.?


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## NevadaPuma (Jan 27, 2012)

"This is terrible news to services such as GameStop, which deal in used games and consoles."

It's also terrible news for gamers, both for consumer rights and monetary reasons.

Or it would be, *if it were confirmed,* which it isn't yet.

Also, while I see the many advantages to a system like Steam, I'm just not personally willing to surrender control over whether or not I can install and play games I buy, and resell them if I wish. This is why I don't use Steam.

Any mechanism that prevents me from selling or buying used games, or prevents me from installing a game without checking to see if it's okay with a server somewhere, is something I will not participate in, be it console or PC. I really hope that consoles don't go down this path.


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## tnn500af (Jan 27, 2012)

If that is indeed true I will vote with my feet - kiss my money good by Microsoft.


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## Nihilus (Jan 28, 2012)

Would an HD 6670 at least 4x powerful as the current XBOX?  All it needs to do is play current  games at 1080p with high settings.  What I really what is multiple display outputs.  It would be great to hook in 4 screens to one xbox and be able to play multi-player Xbox 360 games at 720p.


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## newtekie1 (Jan 28, 2012)

I'll believe the "No used games" thing when I see it. Rumors like this go around every new generation of consoles.


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## ktr (Jan 28, 2012)

Nihilus said:


> Would an HD 6670 at least 4x powerful as the current XBOX?



Hard to tell from old reviews because of different testing hardware and software. But I would say about 4x faster than the current Xbox360 GPU, which is PC equivalent to an ATI X1800XT. 

I am going based off this: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/call_of_duty_4_demo_performance/page3.asp

Considering the 6670 is close to performance to the 4850, which is close to performance to the 8800GTX. 

And the 7900GT is close to performance to the X1800XT.


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## Super XP (Jan 28, 2012)

No used games = No Thanks
HD 6670 = Already Obsolete = No Thanks
Blu-Ray based? I can care less. HD DVD on the other hand would be the BEST choice especially if they want to cut down on piracy. 

Anyhow 1) Go buy a Blu-Ray player, game consoles are for gaming 2) also a major drawback about using old graphics is the bloody lazy developers porting games onto PC.

Govern youself accordingly MS or you'll end up with a flop


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## newtekie1 (Jan 28, 2012)

Super XP said:


> Go buy a Blu-Ray player, game consoles are for gaming



That is like saying my gaming PC shouldn't be used for browsing the internet, it is just asinine.

In todays market a game console should do way more than play game, they should be essentially a HTPC.  In fact I use my PS3 for watching movies far more than I use it to actually play games.  Not including a Blu-Ray player would be a shot in the foot.


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## NevadaPuma (Jan 28, 2012)

newtekie1 said:


> I'll believe the "No used games" thing when I see it. Rumors like this go around every new generation of consoles.



True. However, it's becoming more and more obvious that it's exactly the sort of move that companies would make if they can get away with it, and they keep getting away with more and more. It is a fact, not a rumor, that Sony has taken out a patent on such technology (Patent #6,816,972). Obviously they haven't used it yet, but it's undeniable that they've at least thought about it, which is already a discouraging step.

So while I will also believe it when I see it, I'm also on the watch for it, because it wouldn't surprise me at this point. Unfortunately.

And everyone keep in mind; they only get away with stuff like this if we keep buying it.


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## GunsAblazin (Jan 28, 2012)

*Where's a hacker when you need one?*

If you can have your account on multiple systems that would solve the loaning problem, but would it still kill used sales - unless you're willing to give out your account information when you sell it. If this is the way it's going to be, I expect prices to drop dramatically since developers will "finally" be getting 100% of the sales - unless hackers have something to with it.

This is the type of thing they do with software all the time and it's not such a big deal. The problem is games have traditionally came on disks which can't be played without it; now that it's available in digital form games are essentially just software and can be exploited in the same ways (pirating, hacking etc.). Used game sales really aren’t the problem. Publishers choose to attack that market because they can more easily solve that issue.


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## Mega-Japan (Jan 29, 2012)

ktr said:


> Hard to tell from old reviews because of different testing hardware and software. But I would say about 4x faster than the current Xbox360 GPU, which is PC equivalent to an ATI X1800XT.
> 
> I am going based off this: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/call_of_duty_4_demo_performance/page3.asp
> 
> ...



Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked, the WiiU's GPU is based off the 4890, and if you're telling the "720" is going to be as powerful as the 4850, this would be quite the turn of events. At the very least no "Sorry, can't port the game because the system isn't powerful enough to handle it" like the current gen.




newtekie1 said:


> That is like saying my gaming PC shouldn't be used for browsing the internet, it is just asinine.
> 
> In todays market a game console should do way more than play game, they should be essentially a HTPC.  In fact I use my PS3 for watching movies far more than I use it to actually play games.  Not including a Blu-Ray player would be a shot in the foot.



I wholeheartedly agree. It's like saying I shouldn't do anything with my phone besides placing calls, granted that it is its "main purpose", even though people nowadays text more than they call.

I've had my PS3 for a couple of years now. Never planned on owning one, but got it as a gift (personally would never buy a SONY product). Until last year when I bought Mortal Kombat, I never even had a game for the thing, and used it exclusively to watch Blu-Ray movies.


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## BumbleBee (Jan 29, 2012)

Mortal Kombat is awesome.


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## ktr (Jan 29, 2012)

Mega-Japan said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked, the WiiU's GPU is based off the 4890, and if you're telling the "720" is going to be as powerful as the 4850, this would be quite the turn of events. At the very least no "Sorry, can't port the game because the system isn't powerful enough to handle it" like the current gen.



Wii U is based on a custom R770, which is either the 4830/50/70. The 4890 is R790. So probably around the same ball park in terms of GPU performance.

Regardless, both next-gen consoles are disappointing in specs.


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## Mega-Japan (Jan 29, 2012)

ktr said:


> Wii U is based on a custom R770, which is either the 4830/50/70. The 4890 is R790. So probably around the same ball park in terms of GPU performance.
> 
> Regardless, both next-gen consoles are disappointing in specs.



Consoles have ALWAYS been behind PC's when it comes to GPU's, hardly anything new. Nobody is expecting a 6990 inside the WiiU or PS4. I actually think a console with the performance of a 4870 isn't THAT bad, considering it was a top-of-the-line GPU just a few years back.


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## CrAsHnBuRnXp (Jan 29, 2012)

BumbleBee said:


> Mortal Kombat is awesome.



+1mil


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## ktr (Jan 29, 2012)

Mega-Japan said:


> Consoles have ALWAYS been behind PC's when it comes to GPU's, hardly anything new. Nobody is expecting a 6990 inside the WiiU or PS4. I actually think a console with the performance of a 4870 isn't THAT bad, considering it was a top-of-the-line GPU just a few years back.



You are incorrect with the "Consoles have ALWAYS been behind PC's when it comes to GPU's." 

For example, 360 was released on November 2005 with a GPU equivalent to a X1800XT, which was released on Oct 2005 on the PC. On top of that, Xenos had unified shader, which was introduced with the R600 as early as mid-2007. Hardly behind. If anything, it was ahead.


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## xenocide (Jan 29, 2012)

ktr said:


> You are incorrect with the "Consoles have ALWAYS been behind PC's when it comes to GPU's."
> 
> For example, 360 was released on November 2005 with a GPU equivalent to a X1800XT, which was released on Oct 2005 on the PC. On top of that, Xenos had unified shader, which was introduced with the R600 as early as mid-2007. Hardly behind. If anything, it was ahead.



Not to mention the development units used what would have been like an X800/X850 before launching.  This meant there was a lot of time for improvement on the development side.  Also, Consoles need less power than PC's because they are dedicated to one thing--runnning games.  A device dedicated to one thing that has a single hardware set will always perform better than a device that can do substantially more, and has slightly better hardware.  

Check out Android Phones compared to iOS devices.  On paper a lot of Android Phones destroy the iPhone 4S, but in real world tests the 4S still offers better looking games and runs more smoothly.  Consoles are the same way.  All consoles have to do is run a game at high on 1080p with no anti-aliasing at 30fps.  When you think about it, consoles really don't NEED to be as powerful as PC's at the time.

This is also a problem in my mind.  I want to see an Xbox that launches with a Quad-Core @ 3.6GHz, 2GB of RAM, and an HD6850/GTX560 level GPU.  Give me a console that runs games at 60fps and/or features AA effects.  That I would be interested in.


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## Mussels (Jan 29, 2012)

just give us a console with 2-4GB of ram and we're set >.> give them 8GB and they can use ramdrives/caches to kill off load times on lighter titles.


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## pentastar111 (Jan 29, 2012)

i no longer play consoles....but....what a bunch of greedy effing s.o.b.'s....way back when i did play on them mmy friends and I used to exchange games or bring a game to anothers house to play...good stuff, it was fun....these gluttunous money leaches are capable of destroying all fun in a 5,000,000 mile radius....Just another example of how Big Money and Big Business are making this planet suck balls.


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## RevengE (Apr 19, 2012)

HAHAHAHAHAHA, Fail Mircosoft. I will NEVER buy one of these. What a joke.


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## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 19, 2012)

I never bought used games so im okay with that. Blu ray im also excited about.



RevengE said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHA, Fail Mircosoft. I will NEVER buy one of these. What a joke.



hahaha blatant hate.

IIRC Sony was planning the same thing for their PS4, and its not that Microsoft is doing this for more money. Its not them who get the money for the games that are sold. Its the developers and this is a piracy thing too. This will be a very good thing for the game developer companies, but in the long run may hurt the market since Gamestop and what not has a huge used games inventory.


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## erocker (Apr 19, 2012)

nvidiaintelftw said:


> I never bought used games so im okay with that. Blu ray im also excited about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just because you don't buy/use used games doesn't make it "blatant hate". But obviously since one person said that it is fail they must be some sort of Sony "fanboy" or some crap. Good thing the corporations have loyal folks such as yourself to justify less and more inexpensive choices. Good job!


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## xenocide (Apr 19, 2012)

erocker said:


> Just because you don't buy/use used games doesn't make it "blatant hate". But obviously since one person said that it is fail they must be some sort of Sony "fanboy" or some crap. Good thing the corporations have loyal folks such as yourself to justify less and more inexpensive choices. Good job!



I think he was more getting at people grasping at straws ti hate big corporations.  People hate on Microsoft all the time just because they are such a huge presence in the Technology business, and will take any hint they can to point the finger.  I personally like Microsoft a lot, and even though they have made some awful products and practiced some shady business they have also done a lot to help consumers out--making internet browsers low cost\free, selling the 360 at a loss to make sure people could afford them, smacking down patent trolls, etc.


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## xBruce88x (Apr 19, 2012)

way to stir up an argument from 3 months ago...


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## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 19, 2012)

xenocide said:


> I think he was more getting at people grasping at straws ti hate big corporations.  People hate on Microsoft all the time just because they are such a huge presence in the Technology business, and will take any hint they can to point the finger.  I personally like Microsoft a lot, and even though they have made some awful products and practiced some shady business they have also done a lot to help consumers out--making internet browsers low cost\free, selling the 360 at a loss to make sure people could afford them, smacking down patent trolls, etc.



^^^ Thank you.


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## erocker (Apr 19, 2012)

Lol, I sense bias. Either way, I'd take a job at Microsoft.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 19, 2012)

nvidiaintelftw said:


> I never bought used games so im okay with that. Blu ray im also excited about.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You must of been born after the pager and brick and car phone generation :shadedshu


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## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 19, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> You must of been born after the pager and brick and car phone generation :shadedshu



I am 19 and was born in 1993.

Come at me.


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## RevengE (Apr 19, 2012)

I own both, thank you very much. I am not a fanboy in any way shape or form. If this was a Sony Thread I would have said the same thing about them.


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## erocker (Apr 19, 2012)

nvidiaintelftw said:


> I am 19 and was born in 1993.
> 
> Come at me.



Bad idea saying that to a soldier. Anyways, I don't know how you cannot agree that not being able to play used games on a console isn't a bad thing.


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## RevengE (Apr 19, 2012)

erocker said:


> Bad idea saying that to a soldier. Anyways, I don't know how you cannot agree that not being able to play used games on a console isn't a bad thing.



Agreed.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 19, 2012)

nvidiaintelftw said:


> I am 19 and was born in 1993.
> 
> Come at me.



Lets Just say before March 31 I could of as I was stationed near Tacoma, WA so I was Pretty Much 30 Minutes away from where you are on a good day of traffic. (Yes Most in WA drive with their heads up their asses)

Now I see what kind of attitude you have and it suites You very well, I was 19 going on 20 in 2004 just FYI.

With Age Comes Wisdom.  To me you're too blind and hot headed and cocky, being hot headed and cocky will lead you to making mistakes in a fight thus losing it.

Take that as a lesson before getting into a fight with anyone because you will bite off more than you can chew.  Thus you can get really maimed/killed.  I also don't make it a priority to fight anyone less I have no other choice, unless if my life or those that I love are in danger.

Anyways In all Honestly Majority of customers will not like this Idea because they will flood to other companies- that allow you to pay less for a game. With the World Economy in Shambles people will look for cheaper games.

I recall Genesis/Super Nintendo games running for 50 bux brand new and I was in Blockbuster/ Hollywood Video/FuncoLand (Yes Before they became Gaystop) to look for the same game that was 100 percent functional for less (thats how I got some great games for that console without breaking bank) I even got the Model 1 and Model 2 Genesis from FuncoLand with all my games that way.

Now if a Used game and a New Game are the same price after the newgame had a price slash Ill go for it of course.


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## TheoneandonlyMrK (Apr 19, 2012)

bloody tension eh, anyways they are retards (ms) cheap second hand games is about the only type of game a kid can typically afford, i know i was one.

theirs only going to be one end product from this comeing true and thats the nextbox getting cracked and chipped quicker then a easter egg in a kindergarten, do Ms think people (the desperate skint) will pay all their money for cod and gears over a chip and a 5 pound copy, they are going to bring the dark days back to the uk the chimps

im not  for it (cracking) but i did many back in the day and no i sold no games just cracked em as it was easy extra doe, but i cant be bothered these days anyway(better job).

and in a way i personally prefer to buy a game ive been anticipateing ages full whack as it drives me to the end of said game even when it ends up being shit,,, ahem ill beat you yet crysis2.

they should so go back to cartidges/memory sticks but usb3 version ish




marcthpro said:


> What if you can't rent a game for 7 Day for 6$ and tell if you like it or not ? just buy and hope you ain't getting a Failure like Duke nukem forever or Game that as no replay value



v good point wtf are they going todo about rentals


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## MxPhenom 216 (Apr 19, 2012)

It might be a bad thing, but i haven't bought a used game in the last like 8 years. Last time i did it didn't even work. I just prefer buying new games through sales from places like amazon, etc. I usually buy all the block busters new at full price at launch so.


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## eidairaman1 (Apr 19, 2012)

nvidiaintelftw said:


> It might be a bad thing, but i haven't bought a used game in the last like 8 years. Last time i did it didn't even work. I just prefer buying new games through sales from places like amazon, etc. I usually buy all the block busters new at full price at launch so.



Sorry to hear from your loss but just as a rule of thumb always test the games at a Gamestop, Electronic Boutique, Babbages, Hastings, Local Movie Shops before buying them.


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