# Ryzen 3600x temperature



## burebista (Jan 9, 2020)

Guys a question about CPU temperature.
Coming back to AMD after many years of Intel and today I've put together 3600x, Asrock B450 Pro4, HyperX Predator Black 16GB DDR4 3200MHz CL16 and Noctua NH-D15. Windows 10 November, updated, latest AMD chipset drivers.

But I'm puzzled about CPU temperatures. Just writing here in forums and it's jumping from 43-61°C. 






Playing a game and hits 78°C.
Running 5 minutes prime95 Small FFts hitting 84°C.

Cooler is fine. I've even dismounted it and mount it again. Basically no difference. And fins are mildly hot so it's doing his job I guess. I even run 1usmus Custom Power Plan but same temps.

So I want to know if it's something wrong or those are usual temps for Ryzen on air cooling.

Thanks.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 9, 2020)

Do you have the latest BIOS also?

If you touch the fins during some idling or browsing/watching videos then its ok to be mildly hot. If that was during those 78/84C readings while the load is constant that it could be an indicator of not proper heat transfer between CPU and heatsink.
I can see that you min temps are high too...

Can I see the whole page of HWiNFO page of

1. Idle readings without any bench


2. during some heavy load


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jan 9, 2020)

What is the case like? got good airflow? whats the room temps like?


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## Vayra86 (Jan 9, 2020)

burebista said:


> Guys a question about CPU temperature.
> Coming back to AMD after many years of Intel and today I've put together 3600x, Asrock B450 Pro4, HyperX Predator Black 16GB DDR4 3200MHz CL16 and Noctua NH-D15. Windows 10 November, updated, latest AMD chipset drivers.
> 
> But I'm puzzled about CPU temperatures. Just writing here in forums and it's jumping from 43-61°C.
> ...



Nothing wrong with that? 84C during torture is perfectly fine, its the hottest you will see and within spec.


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## burebista (Jan 9, 2020)

Yep, latest BIOS was flashed even before installing Windows.
And yes, fins were mildly hot on desktop usage not gaming.
Below some screenshots.
Idle


Load after a couple of minutes of prime95 Small FFTs


Thanks. 

*LE. *Case is Antec P182 with one exhaust fan low RPM. Room temp 22°C
Vayra, coming from a Sandy Bridge which was doing prime95 fanless at 65°C in the same case I'm a little puzzled about new Ryzen temps. If their are fine then perfect.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 9, 2020)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> What is the case like? got good airflow? whats the room temps like?


Yes I forgot to aks this...

And @burebista you should update the system specs in your profile also.



Vayra86 said:


> Nothing wrong with that? 84C during torture is perfectly fine, its the hottest you will see and within spec.


While it is whithin specs... if he can improve it some how its a win situation.
ZEN2 throttles on 95C and shuts down on 105, but over 50C cuts down PBO. Up until 95C its just PrecisionBoost without PBO.


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## Vayra86 (Jan 9, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Yes I forgot to aks this...
> 
> And @burebista you should update the system specs in your profile also.
> 
> ...



Understood and have at it, but the question was only if that was problematic / something wrong


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## burebista (Jan 9, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> And @burebista you should update the system specs in your profile also.


Yeah, I know but I just finished mounting all that stuff a couple of hours ago. I'll do it.

And I've put some *LE* on my previous post.


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## Divide Overflow (Jan 9, 2020)

burebista said:


> Case is Antec P182 with one exhaust fan low RPM. Room temp 22°C


Are your two front intake fans installed and working?


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## oobymach (Jan 9, 2020)

That's perfectly normal for 3600x, mine with a nh-d15s does that so you're well within spec temps. I would recommend manually setting fan speed in bios so it doesn't whirr up and down if you haven't already done so. The 3600x runs hot imo but max tdp is 95 degrees so it's well under shutting down under stress.


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## burebista (Jan 9, 2020)

I'm a silent guy, only one exhaust fan at low RPM.
And also only the middle fan on NH-D15.

*LE:* ooby, I did manually set a fan curve in BIOS because those suddenly ramping fans at those jumping temps were driving me crazy. 
Thanks for input, glad to know that I'm not alone at it looks like those temps are somehow usual for 3600X.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 9, 2020)

burebista said:


> I'm a silent guy, only one exhaust fan at low RPM.
> And also only the middle fan on NH-D15.


Well, only one fan exhaust is a big NO for me but thats your case.
And by other temps (VRM/board) I see that they are ok. You need better CPU cooling and maybe not the whole case. I wouldnt like to see mine 75+ even if it is within specs (<95C).


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## Divide Overflow (Jan 9, 2020)

burebista said:


> I'm a silent guy, only one exhaust fan at low RPM.


Your case is starved for airflow.


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## burebista (Jan 9, 2020)

OK, I'll put another one in front then. But no more.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 9, 2020)

If you see you PPT/EDC readings during P95, they are way down far from limits (%). Meaning that the CPU has more to give but constrained by temp...


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## burebista (Jan 9, 2020)

Hmm, so these things are hot it seems.
I'll try someday to put the second fan on Noctua and another one on intake but TBH there are too much fans for my like. 
*LE:* BTW guys, thanks for advice. It's always a pleasure to ask a question here on TPU.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 9, 2020)

If you 


burebista said:


> I'll try someday to put the second fan on Noctua and another one on intake but TBH there are too much fans for my like.
> *LE:* BTW guys, thanks for advice. It's always a pleasure to ask a question here on TPU.


When you add those 2 fans do a PPT/TDC/EDC comparison, maybe post it here like the 2 screenshots before and we will see if we can do anything to improve things further. I've done a lot PBO testing lately (with manual setting) and found some things...
But take the screenshots with the exact same way to be a valid comparison.


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## dirtyferret (Jan 9, 2020)

burebista said:


> Vayra, coming from a Sandy Bridge which was doing prime95 fanless at 65°C in the same case I'm a little puzzled about new Ryzen temps. If their are fine then perfect.


more cache and cores under load typically means more heat to dissipate 

Also, I would use the second Noctua fan on the D-15 as I doubt you could hear the difference between one and two fans on it in your case


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## Vya Domus (Jan 9, 2020)

burebista said:


> OK, I'll put another one in front then. But no more.



It'll probably make no difference, the bottleneck is the chip itself. It's 7nm and it's thermal density it's a lot higher, higher temperatures are to be expected.


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## agentnathan009 (Jan 9, 2020)

This is a 2600X with 120 AIO from Arctic Cooling at idle. Your temps seem fine and normal. My temps fluctuate somewhat wildly when CPU starts working on something. Had fan ramping issues so I fine tuned fan curves and no more fan ramping issues. Just get some low speed Noctua fans to add to your case to keep temps down a bit more.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 9, 2020)

Vya Domus said:


> It'll probably make no difference, the bottleneck is the chip itself. It's 7nm and it's thermal density it's a lot higher, higher temperatures are to be expected.


While this is true about density, meaning that the die(from) has less area to dissipate the heat (to) the IHS and heatsink, there is always room for improvement. Not all ZEN2 run as this hot.
They just do better with highest possible heat transfer rate to the heatsink (TIM material/application and mount issues). Higher cooling solution alone will not do the job the best way.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jan 10, 2020)

if sound is the only motivation to keep fans out of your case, maybe look at installing sound deadening material which wont interfere with airflow if done with common sense. Using a software fan controller helps that will control how high fans ramp up when gaming or for other high cpu usage  conditions. BIOS fan profiles are ok but that only gives 2 or 3 step points.


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## burebista (Jan 10, 2020)

Small update in this morning.
First of all I'm dumb as brick. I put the Noctua fan wrong when I dismounted cooler. It was blowing in case. 
Now I put another Noctua as intake fan and tweaked a little fan curves (in idle CPU fan has 1000 RPM in idle and intake/exhaust 800 RPM and in load all 3 are at +1300 RPM).
Unfortunately I cannot put second Noctua fan on cooler because RAM clearance. Maybe I'll do some DIY with a 120 fan someday.
Room temperature is the same 22°C .
Something has changed.

Idle temps are down in 30's°C


And load temps are 79°C (Small FFT's for almost 10 minutes).


At least 7°C showed both in idle and load and looks like PPT/TDC/EDC are up too. Me happy now.
But I want to go further. In my youth I was a big fan of underclock/undervolt. Now underclock doesn't bother me so much but I want to try to undervolt.
Unfortunately I have more than 10 years since I didn't touch an AMD rig so I have no clue about how to do it on Ryzen.
So bear with me and please give me some directions for undervolt this CPU.

Thanks again.


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## Vayra86 (Jan 10, 2020)

burebista said:


> Vayra, coming from a Sandy Bridge which was doing prime95 fanless at 65°C in the same case I'm a little puzzled about new Ryzen temps. If their are fine then perfect.



Sandy Bridge was notoriously easy to cool, it had a golden combo of architecture, soldered heatsink and lower density (32nm) than current CPUs. Things got worse progressively temp wise; when Intel moved to Ivy Bridge just one shrink later *and* moved from solder to another TIM temps and heat dissipation became an issue.

This trend has continued over the years, and even though we're back to soldered CPUs again, temps are still on average moving closer to 'max spec', OC headroom shrinks due to temp walls and voltages are pretty high out of the box.

However, we also have more experience with temps and endurance of silicon and the general experience is that they always last way beyond expiry date. So there is headroom to use, and higher temps is one way to do that.

About case fans: more case fans at lower RPM will result in a more silent build. Something to consider


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## Zach_01 (Jan 10, 2020)

burebista said:


> Small update in this morning.
> First of all I'm dumb as brick. I put the Noctua fan wrong when I dismounted cooler. It was blowing in case.
> Now I put another Noctua as intake fan and tweaked a little fan curves (in idle CPU fan has 1000 RPM in idle and intake/exhaust 800 RPM and in load all 3 are at +1300 RPM).
> Unfortunately I cannot put second Noctua fan on cooler because RAM clearance. Maybe I'll do some DIY with a 120 fan someday.
> ...


Thats better...

If you want to just under volt you can try with a negative offset to Vcore. I'm not familiar with Asrock BIOS but somewhere there is the voltage control (Vcore) of CPU on auto mode and the offset (Dynamic Vcore) on auto as well.
You must set CPU Vcore to normal and then give the Dynamic Vcore some negative value like -0.00625V or -0.01250V or more.
The -0.00625 is the smallest step.
Some CPU can sustain same boost clocks even with -0.02500V or -0.05000V. My CPU is not so great in terms of silicon quality and looses performance(clock) even with -0.01250V.
Your 3600X is definately better silicon and you may achieve some further temp reduction without loosing clock/perf by undervolt.

But I dont have high temps anyway (max60~65C and 50~55C gaming) so it didnt matter to me that I couldnt use undervolt without loosing performance. So I tryied to do the opposite, and see if I can gain some clocks. Not with positive Dynamic Vcore but with an entirely different approach.
Through manual PBO settings of PPT/TDC/EDC and Scalar.
R5 3600 PBO limits/defaults
AutoPPT *88W* (Package Power Tracking)
AutoTDC *60A* (Thermal Design Current) = max current on thermally constrained scenarios ~95C)
AutoEDC *90A* (Electrical Design Current)
Auto Scalar X1

I was watching with HWiNFO those numbers during CB-R20 and it was like this:
PPT *87.5W*
TDC *49.1A*
EDC *78.5A*
CPU avg(column) average effective clock = ~*3971*MHz

Because the temp was good enough (~63C) the CPU was doing all it could and it was capped by PPT limit of 88Watt. Raising the PPT limit alone does not help. It was still around 88W. So I tried to lower the current (EDC) starting with 73A.
Next R20 run:
PPT *87.5W*
TDC *49.1A*
EDC *73A*
CPU avg(column) average effective clock = ~*3972*MHz

Keep reducing EDC until 65A.
Next R20 run:
PPT *89W*
TDC *49.7A*
EDC *65A*
CPU avg(column) average effective clock = ~*3985*MHz

Then PBO Scalar into the game...
Next R20 run:
PPT *91W*
TDC *49.7A*
EDC *64A*
Scalar *X2*
CPU avg(column) average effective clock = ~*4000*MHz

Lowering EDC alone has raised a bit the Vcore by it self. Setting Scaler from auto to X2 raised it a bit more so thats why the increased clock. Temp went up 3~4C.
Reducing EDC to 63A and maximizing cooling (AIO extreme profile and TIM change to liquid metal = drop 6~7C) has benefit even more the clock.

Next R20 run:
PPT *93.7W*
TDC* 51.3A*
EDC *63A*
Scalar *X2*
Max cooling
CPU avg(column) average effective clock = ~*4033*MHz

Your CPU has the following limits.
AutoPPT *128W* (Package Power Tracking)
AutoTDC *90A* (Thermal Design Current) = max current on thermally constrained scenarios ~95C)
AutoEDC *125A* (Electrical Design Current)
Auto Scalar X1

It appears that you dont hit any of those limits because even tho you drop the temp, its still high enough for it to not raise clock/voltage by it self.
These limits are monitored by the CPU FIT controller (silicon FITness controller) and are regulated in conjunction with temperature.


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## burebista (Jan 12, 2020)

Great post man. Thank you. 

About undervolting through negative offset. I already did it remembering that this is how I undervolt my former Sandy with a great success.
But this CPU baffles me. I've tried to set Vcore offset from AsRock A-Tuning utility from Windows. It has 2 steps, -0.05V and -0.1V
This is stock under prime95 SmallFFTs.


This is undervolting with -0.05V offset

And this is undervolting with -0.1V offset


Temps are dropping indeed with 4°C per step but my also my CPU frequency and PPT/TDC/EDC  are dropping. A lot. 
Whats's going on here? 

Thanks for any light shed for me.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 12, 2020)

Better way to see what is happening and if you are loosing performance is to run a benchmark with some score like Cinebench or any other.
Dont look current effective clock, this could be confusing.
Even though you undervolt I see that last 2 screenshots Core VID for each core is up and PPT/TDC/EDC (last column=avg) is up also...
Run for a score with those 3 settings (minimum 2 times per set) and we'll see next...


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## burebista (Jan 12, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Even though you undervolt I see that last 2 screenshots Core VID for each core is up and PPT/TDC/EDC (last column=avg) is up also...


That's because I didn't stop/start HWInfo64 between testing. It's the same window for all. I wanted to see in realtime what's happening between changing offset.

OK, now Cinebench R20 2 runs/settings.
Stock: 3732/3730
-0.05V: 3684/3662
-0.1V: 3120/3107

So it looks like indeed CPU frequency is dropping.


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## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2020)

@burebista the issue here is still ventilation. If the only fan in your case is that included OEM 120mm exhaust fan, you're in for a bad time. Even if you had removed all of the drive cages and installed extra 120mms up front, that's still one hell of a restrictive front panel for any fan to pull decent airflow through. Have you tried testing with the side panel off to see how much a difference there is? Is the PC itself crowded by other objects nearby?

Any undervolting should always be done in BIOS. 0.05V is way too big a jump. -0.05V is the kind of undervolt I end up on, not the steps I take to get there. BIOS should have dynamic voltage offset control more along the lines of 0.005-0.00625V increments. Always adjust Vcore in the smallest increments possible, and test extensively for stability before changing it further.

It's a little hard to directly compare, because your 3600X is a 105W part and draws about 10-15W more than the 65W parts here. Even so, there are 3900Xs on that same D15 running appreciably cooler.

It would be much appreciated if you could provide your SVI2 TFN Vcore reading during Cinebench, and the clockspeeds you sustain during the test to get a gauge for whether you actually need to undervolt. From a general look at your voltage ranges, it doesn't seem like your chip is overvolted much. Again, it still comes down to airflow, but it helps to know exactly what voltage your chip is using to attain a particular all-core clockspeed. 

How are your case fan and 140mms on the D15 being controlled? Are they all PWM/voltage or are they being run at fixed speeds? What is the temperature control for the case fan bound to, a system temp sensor, PCH or VRM temp? Are they set on a normal profile or a "silent" one that reduces PWM speed?


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## WatEagle (Jan 12, 2020)

burebista said:


> Guys a question about CPU temperature.
> Coming back to AMD after many years of Intel and today I've put together 3600x, Asrock B450 Pro4, HyperX Predator Black 16GB DDR4 3200MHz CL16 and Noctua NH-D15. Windows 10 November, updated, latest AMD chipset drivers.
> 
> But I'm puzzled about CPU temperatures. Just writing here in forums and it's jumping from 43-61°C.
> ...


Hey man I have a Ryzen 5 3600 oc to 4.2 ghz all cores, 1.3 v and I can tell you it's not the cooler chip I've ever seen. I have an arctic freezer 33 esport cooler, the one with only one fan.
In game it sits around 60-65 C, but when stressed with prime95 it can reach almost 90C (part of the problem is the bad airflow of my case)
Your model has a higher TDP and even when mine was stock had pretty hot temperatures, so it's fine.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 12, 2020)

burebista said:


> That's because I didn't stop/start HWInfo64 between testing. It's the same window for all. I wanted to see in realtime what's happening between changing offset.
> 
> OK, now Cinebench R20 2 runs/settings.
> Stock: 3732/3730
> ...


Ok, the truth is that -0.05~0.1V is a lot of voltage missing. If you want to test undervoltage you should try it from BIOS/UEFI with much smaller steps.
Windows is not the place for this kind of tweaking.

Alternatively leave offset auto and voltage on auto and set PBO in manual or advaned mode like this:

PPT: 0
TDC: 0
EDC: 65A or less
Scalar: auto

This wil cap the Current of CPU (topping now at 70~71A) and may give you a little more clock with ~same temp.
And whatever you do to improve cooling will help further.


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## burebista (Jan 12, 2020)

@tabascosauz. About my case airflow. Upper HDD cage is removed and I have 2 Noctua NF-P12-1300 (intake and exhaust). All fans (cooler included) are custom PWM controlled in BIOS with CPU temperature as target.
Basically it's something like this, until CPU temp 60°C all fans are set at 60% RPM. When CPU hits 80°C  the all fans are 100% RPM.
Now after I've added that intake fan and put cooler fan in the right direction I'm pretty happy with temps. 30-35°C  in idle (with occasional jumps to 45-50°C ) and 65°C  during gaming (with occasional jumps to 70-72°C ).

Below is HWInfo during Cinebech run.


I won't mind if I can undervolt a little. I have this underclock/undervolt/silent stuff inside me for too long. 

@WatEagle. Thank you man, I'm relaxed now knowing that this is how Ryzen works. 

@Zach_01. Thanks again man. I have in plan to add another Noctua NF-F12 PWM on cooler but I have to buy it and to figure how to made some decent spring clips to hold the fan in place.


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## tabascosauz (Jan 12, 2020)

@burebista that's some much improved airflow. I see you're going for a quiet fan curve, and things look about right there. 67c in R20 is probably where I'd expect a D15 to be.

I actually pull the exact same Vcore (~1.337V) and clocks (41.3x) in R20, just with 2 more cores and slightly less wattage. That's on stock voltage, 2x PBO and a -7A EDC adjustment. In R20, I usually hit about 74c.

I can go down to a -0.075V offset losing only about ~15-40pts in R20. Improves thermals and noise a fair bit on my U9S. It doesn't look like you'll have quite as much room, but you can go down to say -0.05V and try more aggressive LLC to compensate for Vdroop. Just don't ever use any LLC except for Auto when you're reducing EDC, they go against each other; lowering EDC from stock should be done with stock Vcore and auto LLC.

Try P95 Small and Smallest again. Small shouldn't be running hot at all, multiplier appears to be capped and generally runs cooler with lower clocks and much lower Vcore (1.212V) than even R20. Smallest runs hotter, but not by much. P95 on Ryzen 3000 is a little different than what we're used to on Intel with it literally melting Haswell chips.


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## burebista (Jan 16, 2020)

I don't find LLC in BIOS. Probably because this (found it on net) :_ From my knowledge this board has an Intersil ISL95712 voltage controller which does not support programmable LLC. _

Anyway, the fan arrived today and this is how final setup looks.



Did another CB run, room temperature same 22°C



1°C  up since last run lol.  
But after 5 minutes of prime95 Small FFTs 1°C less compared to previous run.
Both results are in the margin of error though but it looks like second fan is useless.

Anyway I'm happy now, temps looks in line with others. I'll let Ryzen alone to do it's job.

Thanks very much all of you guys for your advice/thoughts/opinions.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Jan 16, 2020)

are there top mounted fans in that case? if not, mod them in! Maybe even a drive bay intake fan mod.


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## burebista (Jan 16, 2020)

Yes, I have a place for a top fan but it's closed with Nexus DampTeck. I'm a silent fan, you know...

My God, with Ryzen all my silent tricks are gone lol.

OK, moved second fan on top of the case as exhaust, run CB and basically same temperatures.



So for my setup this fan is useless. Useless on CPU, useless as second exhaust fan but I'll leave it there on top on low RPM.

I'm done now. I'll enjoy my rig and let CPU make his job.
Thanks again all of you for help.


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## funboy6942 (Jan 17, 2020)

Just my 2c to add for I have the same 3600X cpu, and my case is a NZXT H510i, with 2 fans in the front, on on top, and the stock in the rear, and using the NZXT cam software set to performance for all fans, with a upHere CCF150ARGB, and Artic MX-4 2019 edition, its idle is 50-52c, and at load is 63-67c. So I wouldnt worry too much about it for the cpu is normal all the way up to 90c according to AMD's website for I thought the same thing 

Only thing I could add more to it, is if it is going like 50-70 all over the place at idle just web surfing, the heatsink, and or paste isnt set right and may want to try to redo it, and if using the coolers thermal pad built on oem, ditch it right away and get a good quality paste and retry. It should fluctuate but if its a massive amount just surfing, I have found doing pcs for over 25 years I fudged up setting the paste or heatsink right and pulling off and redoing it, with the correct amount, fixes it, but temps should be steady within 3-5 if just surfing the net.


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## Durvelle27 (Jan 17, 2020)

Looking at it it sounds about right 

I'm running a 3600 Non X at 4.25GHz all core and while gaming its around 65C but in prime95 SmallFFTs it hitd 83C and hovers up and down around 85C max. 

Thermal limit is 95C so still 10 degrees from the limit


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## Zach_01 (Jan 17, 2020)

The CPU has more than temp limit. While under and far away from thermal throttle limit, *temperature alone means absolutely nothing if other aspects of CPU have exceed limits*. Temp is used by the silicon manager to regulate clock and voltage during loads. Having a static OC the manager is canceled and the CPU its under the user's mercy...
Just FYI...


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## burebista (Jan 19, 2020)

A question for my curiosity.
I have only one game installed, Chernobylite. Playing it at fullHD all High graphic options. Runs smooth like silk without problems but I wanted to monitor it a little so I "borrowed" some sensors from HWInfo (CPU0-5 Effective clock and usage), Vcore and CPU (Tctl/Tdie) and put them in MSI Afterburner (remaining sensors are from Afterburner).
This is how it looks (more or less) during gameplay.


And TBH I'm pretty shocked about cores frequency and load. 
This is real lol?


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## Zach_01 (Jan 19, 2020)

If you took effective clock values then yes...

Look at mine after 2+ hours of FarCry 5.
See the Max and Average column values of 
1. Core 0-5 Clock perf #
2. Core 0-5 T0/1 effective Clock
3. Core 0-5 T0/1 usage





Effective Clock contains the active(C0) and sleeping(C1/6) states of the cores.
Look below CoreRatio the C0 and C1/6 Residency
C0 percentage is how active the core is and the more % the more active it is.
C1 percentage is sleeping core state and the more % the more in sleep it is
C6 percentage is deep sleeping core state and the more % the more in deep sleep it is

For this C-state residency the actual valueble column is the last (average).


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## burebista (Jan 20, 2020)

Great stuff man. As always. 
I'm a little bit puzzled now. What to monitor during games, Core Clock or Core Effective Clock? 
I guess Effective clock is the real frequency.

Damn, I forgot everything about AMD. And on top of that Matisse is different.


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## Zach_01 (Jan 20, 2020)

This stuff is new... Old AMD chips don’t have that info and monitoring tools didn’t have this kind of reporting.

From HWiNFO author:





						Effective clock vs instant (discrete) clock
					

It has become a common practice for several years to report instant (discrete) clock values for CPUs. This method is based on knowledge of the actual bus clock (BCLK) and sampling of core ratios at specific time points. The resulting clock is then a simple result of ratio * BCLK. Such approach...




					www.hwinfo.com
				




I would monitor Core Clock Perf#. The current value or the average.


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## burebista (Jan 20, 2020)

Thank you again. Core Clock Perf# will be then.


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## Octavean (Jan 20, 2020)

I have that same Antec case.  Great case that.  Not the best for cable management or AIO coolers but a classic case with a great design.  I have an Intel Core i7 3930K in that case.

I’ve been experiencing similar temps with my AMD R9 3950X / ASRock X570 Taichi build in a Zulman MS800 case using a CoolerMaster Master Liquid 240mm AIO.  Like you I resisted installing front intake fans but I’ll remedy this with 3x front HDD backplane cages with 120mm fans each (no drives installed).

Windows idle temps were about ~35c 
gaming temps were about ~55c
load temps were tough to say because I stopped the stress test when it started to hit ~80c

I switched / swapped the fan headers of the pump and Radiator fans. This dropped the BIOS temps readings although I don’t remember by how much.  Then set in BIOS pump mode for the pump and full speed for the fans (as a test).

Windows idle temps then went down to about ~30c
gaming temps went down to about ~50c +
load temps were about ~75c although it took some time to ramp up to that.  75c isn’t a stable fixed max though. It more or less hovers around ~75c but from there it will drop a few degrees and spike a few too.  So it will drop to about ~73c briefly and it will spike to ~79c or 80c briefly too.  Usually its fluctuating in the 70’s most of the time (maybe ~90% of the time).  If it spikes ~80c or ~82c it’s infrequent and brief, it doesn’t just sit there.

This is using Handbrake and all cores are usually around 4GHz.  I suspect Prime95 would be even more stressfu.

Generally I’m OK with this.  Like you it took me a little time and a little research to come to the understanding that this is normal.

Naturally I would prefer lower temps But I don’t think it’s worth buying a 360mm AIO or a 280mm AIO in pursuit of a temp drops of a few degrees.


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## burebista (Jan 20, 2020)

Thank you man, really appreciate.   
TBH now I'm perfect fine with my temps.

But now I have another question. I'm not an overclocker (quite opposite I'd say) but I want maximum from my rig even stock. So today I've read this post by *Chrispy_ *and suddenly I'm interested. Messing with RAM seems doable if you know what are you doing. 
So this is my RAM


And this is DRAM Calculator (didn't find Hynix J-Die so I choose Hynix CJR) Safe values 3600.


Can I test them from Windows somehow or I must fill this endless BIOS pages? 


Also CJR is not J-Die so can I trust those values? 

Any advice is appreciate like always.


----------



## Octavean (Jan 20, 2020)

I broke a fundamental *rule* with my RAM configuration. I used two different G.Skill RAM kits of different speed.  One kit is DDR4-3200 and the other is DDR4-3600.   

I installed the 3200 kit first which defaulted to DDR4-2400 as expected.  I then used the  XMP setting in BIOS which set it to 3200.  Finally I added the DDR4-3600 kit and all was sailing along at DDR4-3200. 

I'd say just look in the BIOS for XMP and set that. It looks like you've got a DDR4-3200 kit given the part number KHX3200C16D4/8GX.


----------



## Deleted member 193792 (Jan 20, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> Looking at it it sounds about right
> 
> I'm running a 3600 Non X at 4.25GHz all core and while gaming its around 65C but in prime95 SmallFFTs it hitd 83C and hovers up and down around 85C max.
> 
> Thermal limit is 95C so still 10 degrees from the limit


Same for me in manual all-core OC (4250/4225, CCX0/1, 1.325V, LLC3). Idle is around 30C and I think it drops voltage while being idle (judging by Ryzen Master, around 0.5-0.7V). Frequencies/watts also drop quite a lot.

AMD says idle downclocking is not supported in manual OC, is it true?


----------



## Durvelle27 (Jan 20, 2020)

jermando said:


> Same for me in manual all-core OC (4250/4225, CCX0/1, 1.325V, LLC3). Idle is around 30C and I think it drops voltage while being idle (judging by Ryzen Master, around 0.5-0.7V). Frequencies/watts also drop quite a lot.
> 
> AMD says idle downclocking is not supported in manual OC, is it true?


Not going to say if its true or not but i know mine indeed doesn't downclock with manual OC


----------



## Deleted member 193792 (Jan 20, 2020)

Durvelle27 said:


> Not going to say if its true or not but i know mine indeed doesn't downclock with manual OC


I have enabled Cool'n'Quiet and some other options (about CPU states) on the BIOS. Maybe that does the trick?


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 21, 2020)

burebista said:


> Thank you man, really appreciate.
> TBH now I'm perfect fine with my temps.
> 
> But now I have another question. I'm not an overclocker (quite opposite I'd say) but I want maximum from my rig even stock. So today I've read this post by *Chrispy_ *and suddenly I'm interested. Messing with RAM seems doable if you know what are you doing.
> ...


Before you tell calculator to produce values (Safe or fast), first you hit the purple button to read XMP.

You don’t have to change all settings, just the main ones. The first 5 that called “primary” in your UEFI. Best way is to disable XMP, manually set DRAM speed, voltage and primary timings.


----------



## burebista (Jan 21, 2020)

Yay, basically that's how I want to do it but wasn't sure. 
I just read today that better than hit that Read XMP button is to export XMP profile and import it in DRAM Calculator.

Thanks again man, you really-really helped me.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jan 21, 2020)

I saw your PM; That Kingston kit is Hynix JJR which isn't in the calculator and it's newer but also reportedly not as good as CJR, so you may have to loosen sub-timings if the CJR timings spat out by the Ryzen DRAM calculator aren't stable (or just stick with a 3600 speed on loser timings and be happy that your Infinity Fabric is running at its full, AMD-supported speed)

If you want to understand timings in more detail, this is a good summary that covers almost everything I know:








						What Are Memory Timings? CAS Latency, tRCD, tRP, & tRAS (Pt 1)
					

This content hopes to define memory timings and demystify the primary timings, including CAS (CL), tRAS, tRP, tRAS, and tRCD. As we define primary memory timings, we’ll also demonstrate how some memory ratios work (and how they sometimes can operate out of ratio), and how much tertiary and...




					www.gamersnexus.net
				




16-18-20-20-36 may well work, in which case good luck trying the secondary timings and potentially if that's all stable and you want more, try the fast preset.

If you can't get your JJR kit stable on CJR timings, give 16-19-19-19-39 a shot.


----------



## burebista (Jan 21, 2020)

Thank you Chrispy.   
OK, for start this is how it looks now in AIDA64.



And this is what DRAM Calculator shows me with CJR selected and XMP imported via Thaiphoon.


What should I expect if I find some stable timing at 3600? Better latency? Read/write/copy? Nirvana?


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jan 21, 2020)

burebista said:


> Thank you Chrispy.
> OK, for start this is how it looks now in AIDA64.
> View attachment 142808
> 
> ...


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 21, 2020)

burebista said:


> Thank you Chrispy.
> OK, for start this is how it looks now in AIDA64.
> View attachment 142808
> 
> ...


Same speed, lower timings improve (lower) latency the most and could improve (higher) slightly the bandwidth (read, write, copy).
Those numbers are pretty low and the latency high. Is your Infinity Fabric, Memory controller and RAM synchronized?


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jan 21, 2020)

If you manage to get it running at 3600 CL16 then you have three main benefits:

1) You'll have 12.5% more memory bandwidth for any applications where memory bandwidth was the bottleneck. Video editing loves bandwidth.
2) Your memory latency will be 12.5% lower, which will make a significant improvement to general performance; Anything that's not cached is usually bottlenecked by RAM latency.
3) The Infinity Fabric is 12.5% faster, I think the 3600X has two CCX with three active cores per CCX, and the CCX communicate with each other over the I.F. Even ignoring the RAM speed altogether, this a 12.% increase in the speed at which different parts of your CPU talk to each other, and this is by far the most important factor of setting RAM to 3600 on Zen2.

Minimum framerates in gaming are generally caused by internal bottlenecks where game engine instructions are running on multiple cores in different CCX. If something running on Core 1 in CCX1 needs to fetch data from an L2 cache on Core 4 in CCX2, the speed of the I.F. is a huge factor in the time this data fetch takes. In an ideal operating system, the scheduler would make sure that all game threads of a similar type that might share cache data are run on neighbouring cores of the same CCX. In reality it's completely random so your I.F. speed makes a significant difference to gaming performance.

It may only improve your average framerates by 2-4% but your minimum framerates should see a pretty significant boost.


----------



## burebista (Jan 21, 2020)

@Zach_01 . Dunno what to say. I didn't touch BIOS other than setting XMP profile for memory.
Hwinfo says IF 1600, mem is 3200 so I guess they're synced.

@Chrispy_  Many thanks for explanations. Friday I have a day off so I have in plan to play with memory.


----------



## moproblems99 (Jan 21, 2020)

burebista said:


> So I want to know if it's something wrong or those are usual temps for Ryzen on air cooling.



Normal. You might be able to get uefi settings in there to smooth it out some but that is pretty normal.



burebista said:


> That's because I didn't stop/start HWInfo64 between testing. It's the same window for all. I wanted to see in realtime what's happening between changing offset.
> 
> OK, now Cinebench R20 2 runs/settings.
> Stock: 3732/3730
> ...



Changing my LLC allowed me to drop volts and gain hz.  If I tried to undervolt via offset, I lost clocks and performance.


----------



## eSeTech (Jan 21, 2020)

Hi,

I've assembled gaming PC's for 10 years, and I found a defective heat sink, yes the metal piece can be defective so it’s not doing its job fine, also the CPU can be defective. You shall replace them if you don’t see any clues.

Cheers!


----------



## burebista (Jan 22, 2020)

@moproblems99 Thanks man, but unfortunately I don't have LLC in BIOS so I decided to leave CPU alone, it works pretty well out of the box.
Now I'm focused on memory.

Speaking of that, it's embarrassing but I must say it. Yesterday evening before going to bed I've tried to bring memory at 3600.
Maybe I'm rusty, maybe I'm dumb or maybe I've overlooked something (hoping for the latter lol) but it doesn't work.
What I did. Clearing XMP profile, save-exit. Back to BIOS memory is now 2400, Vdimm 1.20V and default timings. Changed frequency to 3600, changed only primary timings (16-19-19-19-38), Vdimm 1.35V save-exit and...black screen, no boot.
After 3 tries MB loaded default and now I'm square one with 2400, 1.20V and all that jazz.

What I'm doing wrong? Bad timings? Should I mess with voltages too?


----------



## Deleted member 193792 (Jan 22, 2020)

What's your RAM die type? You can try 1.40V


----------



## burebista (Jan 22, 2020)

I have a picture attached a couple of posts ago.


----------



## moproblems99 (Jan 22, 2020)

burebista said:


> I have a picture attached a couple of posts ago.



I have to go north of 1.4V for mine.  You can also try to force 1.1v for soc.

Edit: LLC is load line calibration by the way.  I would think you have it.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jan 22, 2020)

Reports on Reddit/Slack/Forums seem to indicate that Hynix-JJR _*should*_ work at 3600 16-19-19-19-39 but it's still overclocking so not guaranteed.

I assume you've also tried using the V2 profile and Manual Profile in the calculator? V1 is for premium grade RAM. V2 is for mainstream RAM, and Manual is for stubborn RAM that doesn't want to overclock.

I had an Asrock B450M that wouldn't overclock RAM using secondary timings on Auto - it was easy Samsung B-die, too - so the issue was definitely the board/BIOS because manually inputting secondaries got it stable again. I would suggest you try inputting the secondaries at least once to see if that helps.

Failing that, it may be that your RAM just isn't a good sample. As a last-ditch effort to run *at 3600*, use 3733 (Manual profile) with SAFE timings from the calculator for RAM that's actually still set at 3600 operation. If that doesn't work your RAM may simply be incapable of 3600 

At 3600 18-18-20-20-40, you're getting the same memory latency (in nanoseconds) as 3200 CL16 as per the XMP settings. If you don't get 3600 timings tighter than that you probably need to give up on that kit.


----------



## burebista (Jan 22, 2020)

Many thanks again man.
I've used Manual profile because I've imported Thaiphoon report into DRAM Calculator.
I even manually input Primary and Secondary timings in BIOS but with Vdimm 1.35V. No luck.

But I did a step forward. 3600 16-19-19-19-39 Vdimm 1.4V and boot into Windows. YAY!


AIDA Mem benchmark numbers are up and latency down. YAY!


Ran TestMem5 and 4 errors in 30 seconds then BSOD. Booo! 
Just two more questions.
SoC voltage is Auto now with 1.072 value in BIOS. Should I raise it to 1.1V and maybe I'll pass TestMem5? If yes 1.1V is safe for long term?
1.4V is safe for daily use for memory?


----------



## Deleted member 193792 (Jan 22, 2020)

Yes, 1.1V is safe for the SoC/NB part. 1.4-1.45V should be safe for the RAM, maybe with some additional cooling/decent airflow.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jan 22, 2020)

I agree with Jermando. 1.45 should be okay for the RAM with a Noctua DH-15 moving a lot of air around the socket area.

C16 is really valuable at 3600. If you can't find a way to get it stable at 3600, try dropping to 3533 with the same timings. the I.F. won't be quite as fast but 3533 CL16 is still better than 3600 CL17 and much better than the 3200 you were running before.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 22, 2020)

I agree with both @jermando and @Chrispy_, for ZEN2 1.1V SOC voltage is considered normal value. Up to 1.25V (only if it is required, I doubt it is) is considered safe.
And 1.45V for ram with some air flow...

Other voltages that could affect DRAM and InfinityFabric when raising clocks to 1800MHz or higher are the cLDO VDDP and cLDO VDDG. These voltages are related to UMC (Mem Controller) and InfinityFabric. You can see them in RyzenMaster.


----------



## burebista (Jan 23, 2020)

Chrispy_ said:


> If you can't find a way to get it stable at 3600, try dropping to 3533 with the same timings.


Great idea man. 
I wasted a couple of hours today messing with my RAM.
First 20 minutes were flawless. Raised Vdimm to 1.4V and frequency to 3533. Nothing else changed in BIOS.
TestMem5 with 1usmus config was nice with me.

Aida64 looks pretty good too.


That was encouraging to try for 3600. Two hours later I give up. Cannot reach 3600 with 16-19-19-39 Vdimm 1.42 and SoC 1.12V. I don't want to go higher than that on air for daily use.
Dunno what's holding me back but now I'm pretty happy with 3533 TBH.
So again, a BIG thank you for all who helped me.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 23, 2020)

burebista said:


> Great idea man.
> I wasted a couple of hours today messing with my RAM.
> First 20 minutes were flawless. Raised Vdimm to 1.4V and frequency to 3533. Nothing else changed in BIOS.
> TestMem5 with 1usmus config was nice with me.
> ...


Its an improvement anyway...

But how is the voltage now of cLDO VDDP and cLDO VDDG?
RyzenMaster tells...


----------



## moproblems99 (Jan 23, 2020)

burebista said:


> Great idea man.
> I wasted a couple of hours today messing with my RAM.
> First 20 minutes were flawless. Raised Vdimm to 1.4V and frequency to 3533. Nothing else changed in BIOS.
> TestMem5 with 1usmus config was nice with me.
> ...



Make sure you set if to 1767 as well.


----------



## burebista (Jan 23, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> But how is the voltage now of cLDO VDDP and cLDO VDDG?
> RyzenMaster tells...


Like this



moproblems99 said:


> Make sure you set if to 1767 as well.


It's linked in BIOS with RAM clock. In load is the same as RAM but in idle is jumping up and down.
Should I put manually 1767?


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 23, 2020)

burebista said:


> Like this
> View attachment 143018


Thats odd...

The readings are
VDDCR SOC: 1.0810V
CLDO VDDP: 1.0979V
CLDO VDDG: 1.0979V

This cant be right. Are all these on auto voltage now?
Im asking because cLDO VDDP/VDDG are powered by the SOC line, and since that is 1.081V then those 2 cant be feeded with 1.0979V...

Try this
VDDCR SOC: 1.12V
CLDO VDDP: 1.00V
CLDO VDDG: 1.05V

But check those readings with RyzenMaster again.
And the SOC voltage is in HWiNFO also, check there too.




burebista said:


> It's linked in BIOS with RAM clock. In load is the same as RAM but in idle is jumping up and down.
> Should I put manually 1767?


Its all right, they are all 3 in same speed as it is. And its normal for InfinityFabric to go up and down in idle.
If you like to keep it as stable as possible then you should set...
CPU Uncore/SOC OC mode: Enabled


----------



## burebista (Jan 23, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> This cant be right. Are all these on auto voltage now?
> Im asking because cLDO VDDP/VDDG are powered by the SOC line, and since that is 1.081V then those 2 cant be feeded with 1.0979V...


Yep, all Auto now. Only Vdimm 1.40V and RAM 3533 are changed in BIOS.
And if I'll try your values will help me where?



Zach_01 said:


> And the SOC voltage is in HWiNFO also, check there too.


Yeah, I've identified it and renamed.






Zach_01 said:


> If you like to keep it as stable as possible then you should set...
> CPU Uncore/SOC OC mode: Enabled


Yeah, I've tried this when I played safe and I first tried 3533 with manual SoC 1.1, Vdimm 1.40 and CPU Uncore/SOC OC mode: Enabled and look what I got. 


Maximum Infinity Fabric at 1911 and MEM 1767.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 23, 2020)

A lot of B450 users seeing this flactuation of IF with this version of HWiNFO. Try the latest beta version.
Its in the description: Beter FCLK monitoring on ZEN2





						HWiNFO v6.21-4055 Beta released
					

HWiNFO v6.21-4055 Beta available.  Changes:  Updated reporting of PPT/TDC/EDC limits when OC-Mode active (no limits). Added monitoring of Effective CPU Core VID on AMD Zen CPUs. Multiple sensor items can now be configured at once via settings. Added support of selective sensor items for logging...




					www.hwinfo.com
				




The...
VDDCR SOC: 1.12V (but check this with HWiNFO, boards tend to undervoltage from actual setting) 
CLDO VDDP: 1.00V
CLDO VDDG: 1.05V
CPU Uncore/SOC OC mode: Enabled
DRAM 1.45V (with airflow)

...May help you with 3600 mem speed.

If not, then:
VDDCR SOC: 1.15V (but check this with HWiNFO, boards tend to undervoltage from actual setting)
CLDO VDDP: 1.05V
CLDO VDDG: 1.10V
CPU Uncore/SOC OC mode: Enabled
DRAM 1.45V (with airflow)


----------



## burebista (Jan 23, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> A lot of B450 users seeing this flactuation of IF with this version of HWiNFO. Try the latest beta version.


Thx, indeed now I.F. is steady, no up and down. 

About VDDP. Below is a screenshot from BIOS. I have CLDO VDDP and CLDO VDDG but also I have VDDP simple with 0.945V.


God knows which is which and also God knows what Ryzen Master shows. 

Meantime instead fiddling with my RAM I ran a benchmark in Chernobylite.
3200


3533


For 1 FPS I'm not banging my head against wall trying to reach 3600. Already 3200 is good enough, 3533 is better on paper and 3600 will bring me nothing.
It's time for me to stop.

A huge thanks especially for you Zach for all you time spend with me. I learn a lot.  
And also many thanks for all who stops on my thread.


----------



## moproblems99 (Jan 23, 2020)

burebista said:


> Already 3200 is good enough, 3533 is better on paper and 3600 will bring me nothing.
> It's time for me to stop.



In most cases you are absolutely correct.  Certain things will work better than others.  There is a Zen 2 memory scaling article here on TPU that will explain it in much more detail.  I would link it but I am on mobile at the moment.

Enjoy the new setup.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 23, 2020)

burebista said:


> Thx, indeed now I.F. is steady, no up and down.
> 
> About VDDP. Below is a screenshot from BIOS. I have CLDO VDDP and CLDO VDDG but also I have VDDP simple with 0.945V.
> View attachment 143027
> ...


That is entirely your call and decision. If your’re happy about the performance then just stop right there and enjoy!

FYI
“Simple” VDDP with 0.945V is something else.
The cLDOs are Memory controller and InfinityFabric related.


----------



## johnny-r (Jan 24, 2020)

yep, sound perfectly fine to me, enjoy it ! I've been through the same trying settings here and there but it runs perfect for me on 3200.


----------



## burebista (Jan 25, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> Thats odd...
> 
> The readings are
> VDDCR SOC: 1.0810V
> ...



Those  CLDO VDDP/VDDG in Ryzen Master bothered me so I put them manually in BIOS.
CLDO VDDP 0.850V
CLDO VDDG 0.950V
Now Ryzen Master shows something different for them.



Should I keep new values or revert to Auto? I'm on stock setting now, no RAM OC.

*LE:* Looks stable in TestMem5 with those CLDO values.


----------



## Zach_01 (Jan 25, 2020)

You can keep it like this if its not giving you any instability. Less voltage always is better, again if not becoming unstable. But if you want to run DRAM speed and IF to 1766 or 1800 or even higher then you might need to raise those cLDOs and possible the SOC too.

Currently I'm running 1800MHz (all synched) and my settings are...

VDDCR SOC: Auto with SOC LLC High, resulting a voltage of 1.09~1.1V
CLDO VDDP: 950mV (actual 0.9474)
CLDO VDDG: 1000mV (actual 0.9976V)

Every CPU does not react the same in every DRAM/IF speed and may need different voltage for the SOC and cLDO VDDP/VDDG.
Its a "try and error" procedure


----------



## Pijomir (Jun 2, 2020)

Hello to all.

I just bought ryzen 5 3600x +asus prime x570-p and 2*8 gb 3200 16-18-18-36 ram. Using noctua u12s for cooling in a Cooler Master 690 III case with full capacity of fans.

Still, i reach 86 degrees Celsius in aida64 stress test.

I read here that this is a NORMAL, but still bodering me - my previous rig was powered by i7 3770k @4.4 and had never seen such temps. Would you be so kind to advice me how to reduce this temps?


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jun 2, 2020)

Pijomir said:


> Hello to all.
> 
> I just bought ryzen 5 3600x +asus prime x570-p and 2*8 gb 3200 16-18-18-36 ram. Using noctua u12s for cooling in a Cooler Master 690 III case with full capacity of fans.
> 
> ...


Remove your cooler, check that the thermal paste has spread across the whole of the processor into a thin, even layer.
Those temps are high but I'm not seeing anything like that on my 3600 @ 4.2 using a similar (very old) Notcua NH-U12.

Are you using PBO+ and AutoOC? The Asus boards are extremely aggressive with AutoOC and regularly push voltages up to 1.4V and beyond. This invalidates your 3600X's warranty and honestly isn't good for the chips at all, long-term. I wouldn't even enable AutoOC unless I had a waterblock capable of keeping temps under 70C at those voltages. Also, PBO+ gets you 90% of the way there already and unlike AutoOC, it's sanctioned by AMD so it won't ruin your warranty if you fry your chip.


----------



## Pijomir (Jun 2, 2020)

I disabled pbo cause i'm currently using 1usmus custom power plan. Still i'm seeing pieaks beyond 1.45v, but only in idle. So may be the termal paste is the problem. In games my highest temps are max 76.

Oh, and i don't know about auto clock - still very new with this platform. Where to find this information?


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jun 2, 2020)

Pijomir said:


> I disabled pbo cause i'm currently using 1usmus custom power plan. Still i'm seeing pieaks beyond 1.45v, but only in idle. So may be the termal paste is the problem. In games my highest temps are max 76.
> 
> Oh, and i don't know about auto clock - still very new with this platform. Where to find this information?


My machine was running like crap and I couldn't figure out why, turns out I forgot that I turned on a 12-thread CPU burn test for you to see what my manual OC 3600 was reaching with an air cooler at 1.35V

The answer is 54C _66C_, ambient here is 23C so that's 31C _43C_ over ambient.
_Derp edit - sorry forgot to set the offset in CoreTemp because I started it manually_

You should go back to the Windows 10 balanced power plan now unless you really know the differences. 1usmus' plan is better for all-core workloads but the majority of consumer use will see lower temperatures and better efficiency despite potentially being 50MHz slower.

The main thing about the original 1usmus plan is that it was ahead of the Windows 1909 scheduler update, as well as AGESA 1.0.0.4 that improved things. Assuming you are running 1909 and 1.0.0.4 there's not likely to be any point in running 1usmus' plan, especially not if you're trying to troubleshoot high temperatures.


----------



## Pijomir (Jun 2, 2020)

Balanced Windows 10 plan or Amd Ryzen balance plan?


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jun 2, 2020)

Windows. Provided you're running a recent version of Windows 10 it makes very little performance difference but it will increase your idle temp significantly. The AMD Ryzen power plan was created specifically for old versions of Windows 10 on 1st Gen Ryzen.


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a9q96u/_/eclsig7

Buried in there is a second thread that shows Window 10 Balanced is 99.72% as fast, but much more power-efficient than the AMD Ryzen plan.





but idle efficiency is terrible (these are temperature results of each plan):


----------



## Pijomir (Jun 2, 2020)

Thanks. The max temp decreased to 75 with several peaks of 78. Still higher for my understandings, but better than before.


----------



## Chrispy_ (Jun 2, 2020)

Cool. Check your thermal paste application is good then, and if your room temperature is warmer than mine (30C for example) there's nothing wrong with 75C

You still shouldn't be seeing 1.4V though, that implies that somewhere in your BIOS there is a setting that is auto-overclocking your CPU.

I don't have a prime x570 so I can't really walk you through it, but even with PBO+ you should be seeing max voltages hovering around 1.35V or so at boost. The 3600 is lower quality silicon and even that doesn't need 1.4V at any point unless it's overclocked, so the 3600X should use less voltage for sure. The high temps are directly caused by voltages over 1.4V - that's way beyond the sweet spot and definitely higher than stock.


----------



## Pijomir (Jun 2, 2020)

The point is that thera are peaks over 1.4 only in idle. Over load it goes max to 1.35.


----------



## Iceni (Jun 2, 2020)

I've been seeing a few things myself with the 3600.

I moved from a 2500K to this chip and mine is hot as well in comparison.

The Ryzen balanced profile is hotter, and fails to park as many cores as the windows balanced profile.

Windows balanced is parking 3 cores a lot of the time, and in addition is running at 33-35 on true idle.

Ryzen balanced in comparison is only parking 2 cores, and running at 37-39 on idle.

I'm also seeing a lower idle core speed with the windows profile.

Peak C V is running 0.95-1.0005 volts on idle and web browsing.

Ram wise I picked up the Adata XPG Spectrix 3600 CL18, It's running it's A-XMP profile without any problems. I haven't bothered to try tweaking the ram yet. I haven't had any issues with it at all.

The profile is running 18,18,18, 38 1t. 3600 Fclk 1800. Vddio 1.35V.

The only real issue I've had is the MSI dragon profiles do strange things and were causing problems, so I've removed that program.

Cinebench running -

PCV 1.27v and 84c in temps. with an average core speed just a hair under 4ghz scoring 3515. I suspect my water block is the problem there, but regular gaming it's in the mid 70's.


----------



## Pijomir (Jun 2, 2020)

Hm. With windows balance and disabled pbo my temps are even lower - below 70 in games, 76 peak on aida64 stress test. 

Still have voltage peaks around 1.467 in idle. In the bios everything is on default except pbo disabled, rgb disabled and manual fan profile. Don't think termal paste is the problem, probably i need bigger case, but this is for now. 
My cable menagement isn't the best, but don't have time for better results.


----------



## Caring1 (Jun 3, 2020)

Pijomir said:


> Hm. With windows balance and disabled pbo my temps are even lower - below 70 in games, 76 peak on aida64 stress test.
> 
> Still have voltage peaks around 1.467 in idle. In the bios everything is on default except pbo disabled, rgb disabled and manual fan profile. Don't think termal paste is the problem, probably i need bigger case, but this is for now.
> My cable menagement isn't the best, but don't have time for better results.


Remove the optical and 2.5" drive bays and stick a fan in the front as intake, air flow would be shite the way it is now.


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## oobymach (Jun 3, 2020)

I solved my heat issue with the 3600x by manually clocking it at 4.2ghz and 1.25v. Under stress in a hot room it barely gets to 70 usually hovering around 68 or so in p95 and gaming peaks around 60 degrees now. I don't like the automatic clock/voltage setting as it stays on 1.35v 98% of the time and keeps the cpu temps up where manual settings runs a fair amount cooler. I may not be getting the fastest single core performance but my cpu doesn't seem like it's trying to melt under stress now.


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## Pijomir (Jun 3, 2020)

Caring1 said:


> Remove the optical and 2.5" drive bays and stick a fan in the front as intake, air flow would be shite the way it is now.


Only 2.5" bay is removable... And i'm using them.

Still, there is a 20cm fan at the front.


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## SomeOne99h (Jun 3, 2020)

Pijomir, you still haven't answered Chrispy_ if you are using AutoOC or not?


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## Chrispy_ (Jun 3, 2020)

Manual clock to 4.2 at 1.25V is one way to solve the stupid ASUS BIOS problems. PBO+ probably wouldn't get much higher than that on a typical multi-core game load anyway. 

Honestly, one of the reasons I stopped buying ASUS boards at work was because some of the BIOSes are downright idiotic. Disabling about 5 different things on every build just to get "normal, stock performance" is a stupid decision. Invalidated CPU warraties by default? Thanks ASUS!

With a manual all-core clock, all OP is really losing out on is idle efficiency but compared to other always-on components and peripherals that's not really a big deal.


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## Pijomir (Jun 4, 2020)

SomeOne99h said:


> Pijomir, you still haven't answered Chrispy_ if you are using AutoOC or not?


Actually i asked what exactly is auto oc? I'm coming from Z68 + i7 3770k and am very new with this platform.

Edit: ok, i understood what it is. I don't use auto oc.


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## terroralpha (Jun 5, 2020)

i can't take the time to read all 4 pages of comments here. but i will tell you two things:

1. ryzen can get hot for no reason even with the best coolers. i had a 3900x that would go close to 90*C with a 360mm AIO cooler. 

2. if there is an issue that can be fixed, the most common cause of crazy temps is bad cooler mounting or bad TIM app. air flow also sometimes plays a role, but only in REALLY bad set ups. try re-mounting the cooler if you have not.


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## Iceni (Jun 5, 2020)

I've done some tweaking on my 3600 and the watercooling loop.

I've found an issue with my motherboard that I've opened with MSI (not that that affects you). Basically it looks like my Pump_fan header isn't supplying the correct voltage or amperage. Either way not your concern.

What I have found is it's possible to cool these chips pretty well with water and a high flow style loop.

On the Pump_fan header I was getting the higher temps I posted. 35-40 idle and up to 85 on load. However that isn't the whole story as the header isn't working correctly.

On a direct 12v connection to the pump (the whole loop bar this connection is the same) I've managed to drop the temps to under 30 idle and 60 loaded.

So there might be a few issues with older pumps and AIO's not been ran at 100%.


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## EasyListening (Jun 5, 2020)

Zach_01 said:


> While this is true about density, meaning that the die(from) has less area to dissipate the heat (to) the IHS and heatsink, there is always room for improvement. Not all ZEN2 run as this hot.
> They just do better with highest possible heat transfer rate to the heatsink (TIM material/application and mount issues). Higher cooling solution alone will not do the job the best way.



Denser chip at 7nm is offset by less electricity needed by chip.

Related: Back in the day, semiconductors were made with aluminum wiring. Copper would be ideal, but it would not stick to the silicon properly. IBM researchers discovered a way to dope silicon in a way that got copper to stick, and made a quantum improvement in performance of semis possible. The head of the research team was Lisa Su, yes that Lisa Su, CEO of AMD. Su was VP in charge of research at IBM. She's always been a shining star in the industry, going back to her PhD work at MIT where she studied semiconductor manufacturing techniques for her dissertation (researching Silicon-on-Insulator, or SOI).


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## steves (Jun 7, 2020)

Pijomir said:


> Thanks. The max temp decreased to 75 with several peaks of 78. Still higher for my understandings, but better than before.



Hi pals, i wanted to share my experience which will help new Ryzen users to get low temps with just default stock fan.
(I switched from intel after years and at first i found Ryzen hot hitting 85 C very fast considerin top limit is 95C)

- My mobo is MSI B450 Tomahawk Max, luckily it has many setting options.

- After lots of reading from forums and AMD subreddit this is my optimal results, just sharing I am not saying this is the correct way but it works for my needs. I just play Battlefield and DOTA like games and work on 3D design and doing lots of renders.

- First off all, the logic of Ryzen, when u start any program it max out the power and cpu clock. And stays there for a while. So your temp goes high quickly. In my logic it should trigger the boost when its needed if the base clock fully loaded and let boost core clock go high so it can speed up and results less load.

- Most of the times even my comp is idle or just browsing cpu was always around 3600 and above which also makes your stock fan working at least at %80-90 speed.

- _*So my first question was what if i disable this boost thing and compare temperatures and performance. Does it really worth? also the stress and my concern about my cpu will get fried while i was just playing a game for hours or when i leave my computer alone for long hours of renders.*_

- *Answer in a nutshell:* It doesn't worth for me. I turned off auto boosting i got acceptable consistent temps under heavy load and performance difference is around %5. In a game this is 7-8 fps, in my case for a 10 min render it is 10-20 seconds total difference depending on scene.

// Now when i am just browsing watching youtube chatting on discord it is 2200mhz - 1866mhz and fan speed around 1200rpm temperature 40-45C and on max load i runned prime95 small FFTs + Battfield at the same time and this resulting the max temp to 78 C and staying there. (game was playing on low frames while prime95 test running i just run it to give the cpu most load)
Also i did 30 min non-stop renders %100 load for cpu and temp is still 72C at max and stays there with stock fan and my case has a regular case fan no additional cooling or accessories. Room temp around 23-24C.

- *So how i did this? I am sharing all my BIOS settings below*

- Before Bios i want to mention in windows my power setting is windows default Balanced ( not ryzen balanced) windows is better.

- Core Performance Boost [Disabled] - When disabled cpu top speed stays on base speed, in my case 3600mhz. _Disabling this also disables PBO but still i set the PBO to eco mode since mobo has this option active after disabling it. On some mobo its just one setting._
- PBO / Precision Boost Overdrive [ Eco mode - 45W]  (A new algorithm works on CPU cores to reach higher frequencies more often which means more power draw and heat even launching office word or browser)
- Global C-State [Auto]  _- This is new AMD Cool'n'Quite like feature for Ryzen cpus_
- AMD Cool'n'Quite [Enabled] - Some sources say this setting is for Athlon series not necessery for Ryzen some says vice versa, I set it as Enabled because it let me adjust PPC adjustment which is default frequency and voltage setting. Pstate0 is default state, Pstate1 and Pstate2 are adjusted with more lower default frequency.
- PPC Adjustment [Pstate1]
- CCPC [Disabled] This is the way AMD choose which cores will be used, disabling this result better and even load distribution between cores. Windows handles it better.

I hope it helps. Let me know if you have questions or better suggestions.


_further reading:_
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc

__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/8djs6r


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## Deleted member 193792 (Jun 7, 2020)

I have Be Quiet Dark Rock TF (I think it's better than the stock cooler, but maybe I'm wrong) and my Ryzen 3600 (all-core manual OC, 4250/4225 MHz, CCX0/1, 1.325V) exceeds 80C while maxing out all cores (at non-AVX workloads, AVX is even higher). As a thermal paste I used the included one from Be Quiet Dark Rock TF. During winter it used to peak at 70C.

Is that normal? My ambient temp is 27C. According to AMD, it's safe up to 95C.

Now, I know some people are against manual OC because supposedly it offers "marginal" benefits compared to PBO (doesn't seem to be the case), _but_ with default settings I get 4 GHz max in all-core workloads and 1.375V (1.325V for AVX workloads, so this is my FIT voltage), so from an electromigration standpoint manual OC seems more beneficial to me (higher clocks, less Vcore). I haven't had any issues (no degrade) since Dec 2019.

What's funny is that with the latest Windows 10 version (2004) my Ryzen 3600 drops voltages all the way down to 0.41V (according to Ryzen Master) while being idle (around 35C), even though AMD had said that setting a fixed voltage/manual OC would prevent power saving features (maybe newer AGESA versions fixed this, dunno).

Also, I'm kinda jealous of new Ryzen 3600 owners getting easily 4.5-4.6 GHz manual all-core OC with only 1.25V (I thought TSMC 7nm yields would have matured by Dec 2019, but I was wrong), but it's not worth it for to do a sidegrade like that. I'll wait for Zen 3 to release and get 3950X for cheap, or maybe 4950X if the 8-core CCX offers a huge performance uplift.


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## terroralpha (Jun 7, 2020)

jermando said:


> I have Be Quiet Dark Rock TF (I think it's better than the stock cooler, but maybe I'm wrong) and my Ryzen 3600 (all-core manual OC, 4250/4225 MHz, CCX0/1, 1.325V) exceeds 80C while maxing out all cores (at non-AVX workloads, AVX is even higher). As a thermal paste I used the included one from Be Quiet Dark Rock TF. During winter it used to peak at 70C.
> 
> Is that normal? My ambient temp is 27C. According to AMD, it's safe up to 95C.
> 
> ...



perfectly normal. 3600 CPUs are made from the lowest binned chiplets that consume more power to achieve the same performance as a bitter quality chip. 

also, no one "easily" gets 4.5 on all cores on a 3600. it requires a good motherboard, good memory and good cooling. assuming you have all that, at that speed it still won't be stable at any voltage for every day use. i was able to get a 3800x to 4.6GHz with a custom loop, i was able to pass some benches and played overwatch for a little bit. but the thing crashed when doing anything else. it crashed while running excel, chrome, premiere, etc. it was simply not usable. and don't forget you're on the internet. there a bunch of people who lie about their overclocks and overclock stability. it's all part of the fanboy derangement syndrome.


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## Iceni (Jun 8, 2020)

terroralpha said:


> no one "easily" gets 4.5 on all cores on a 3600



If I were a bit braver I might attempt that. I just hit 4.4 at 1.25v without having to do much.


Edit: I got brave.

4.5Ghz @ 1.35v 4013 R20 - Just sorting the screenshots. Running and completed shots up.

Skill required - None.


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## terroralpha (Jun 16, 2020)

Iceni said:


> If I were a bit braver I might attempt that. I just hit 4.4 at 1.25v without having to do much.
> 
> 
> Edit: I got brave.
> ...



well, that's cool. what about stability? benchmark number are useless if shit is crashing on you. high frequency doesn't mean faster performance. when i push my threadripper 3970x, too far, the actual performance goes DOWN. by performance, i don't mean a 5 second benchmark. i mean things like rendering or recording videos. batch processing, compression, etc.


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## Iceni (Jun 16, 2020)

terroralpha said:


> well, that's cool. what about stability? benchmark number are useless if shit is crashing on you. high frequency doesn't mean faster performance. when i push my threadripper 3970x, too far, the actual performance goes DOWN. by performance, i don't mean a 5 second benchmark. i mean things like rendering or recording videos. batch processing, compression, etc.



I wouldn't even attempt to run it at 4.5ghz without some major tweaks, I'd have to turn off a load of features to get it stable long term. 

The voltage at 1.35v is a bit on the high side for me as well. 

The 4.4Ghz area I'd probably look into a bit more If I was inclined to run overclocked. There's going to be that run away point where the heat overrides the gains and it'll be in that 4.4 Ghz region. I've got cooling that is overkill for the chip so I can soak a little more heat but realistically I don't think I'd want to be pushing more than 65c on long term load. R20 makes a lot of heat but for regular use I would imagine it'll be a lot lower, Especially for what I do with my computer. 

I'm actually very happy with it running stock, I'm having some very minor issues with my watercooler not been 100% perfect but that'll be sorted soon enough. Running stock even with that niggles it's sitting at 38-45c for my every day loads and gaming. Even pushed to 4.4Ghz I doubt that would be pushing past 50c.


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## Pijomir (Jul 25, 2020)

I undervolt with 0.1. Didn't lose performance even got better results probably because the temperature decreased with 8-9 degrees Celsius.


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