# UPS really Necessary for New Miner? or Surge Protector? What damage on Sudden Power Outage if no UPS?



## Honey (Feb 1, 2018)

hi,
first of all really great people in this forum, this forum is best to get support and right answer.. 
move to the question..

im not new miner but not rich one..
i only have 4 gtx 1070,
now buying gpu more expensive,
i wasnt lazy to spend money on Good power supply, right now im using thermaltake toughpower 1000w goldplus,
still one thing left is. UPS
if i keep buying UPS, i cant grow much faster in mining..
1500va UPS costs 360+$ in india..
six GPU consume more than 1000+ then i need to spend 500+ $ on 2kva..
thats a huge investment,
profit already went down.
i was using 1.1kva but after adding forth gtx 1070, UPS is not more giving support.
what if i dont use UPS? what defect i would see on power outage? (SSD.HDD)?
can i just use SURGE PROTECTOR? 
please share your opinions, im not expert like you guys..


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## R-T-B (Feb 1, 2018)

I don't run my miner on a ups.

The worst you'd see frankly is OS corruption neccesitating a reinstall, but even that is unlikely if you use a standard surge surpressor and run a CHKDSK and/or disk check post outage.


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## Honey (Feb 1, 2018)

R-T-B said:


> I don't run my miner on a ups.
> 
> The worst you'd see frankly is OS corruption neccesitating a reinstall, but even that is unlikely if you use a standard surge surpressor and run a CHKDSK and/or disk check post outage.


cool, that gave me so releif,
after adding 4th gpu my ups gaveup due to overload, i had saved 400$ by mining, i was about to another gpu, i was like, how can i growup if i keep buying UPS.. that was breathtaking..
thanks for your suggestion, can you give me link of Surge protector? when i try to search in amazon.in i just see cable extention. is it what i need?
edit. this thing?
https://www.amazon.in/Belkin-Essent...d=1517504201&sr=8-4&keywords=surge+protectors


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## Kursah (Feb 1, 2018)

I run UPSes on my main PC and server/network gear. 

The ultimate question is what your system and its task worth to you? Is it worth a $100-150 UPS to keep from corrupting/losing data or work?

Also what is your time worth? Many treat this like a business, where lost time = lost income. If you're not that serious, I wouldn't be as concerned honestly.

It is pretty rare to see a GPU smoke from a power surge or outage, and PSU's have some pretty decent protective circuitry also...BUT that doesn't make any guarantees of loss. Also UPSes also offer more stable voltage regulation to the PSU along with wattage use monitoring and if you connect via USB/serial to the UPS on that system with the correct type of UPS you can set safe shutdown rules to allow your PC to shut down before the UPS runs out of batteries in a longer power outage situation so that there is no corruption to deal with.


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## Papahyooie (Feb 1, 2018)

A UPS is recommended, not to protect your hardware so much as to protect your profits. In the case of a minor power outage, or in places where power fluctuates, a UPS would keep your rigs mining when power went out for milliseconds, or even seconds. In places where power is dirty or unreliable, a serious miner would have to manually turn all his machines back on after a power blip (unless he had machines capable of auto restoring power, and configured them to do so.) 

If you've got clean, stable power, it's not a necessity at all.


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## dorsetknob (Feb 1, 2018)

The Need for a UPS and or surge Protector  is Debatable and by that i mean it comes down to the Reliability of the Power Infrastructure of your Region
there are some members here that will preach that they are essential where ever you live
a view i do not subscribe to
If Your power Supply is Super Reliable as in EU/UK/ Urban USA  then you can run with out UPS
If its in a more problematical Area ( and i know OP is in India) Then a Decent UPS of Sufficient Capacity is Recommended



Honey said:


> i was about to another gpu, i was like, how can i growup if i keep buying UPS.


if i was in your situation and decided on investing in a UPS ( and as a mining Business investment it would be wise )
i would Buy one with Spare Capacity ( to allow for future Expansion)


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## Honey (Feb 1, 2018)

Ah  lot of investment, it was wrong time for my ups to give up xd , profit went down alot, still if i buy ups it would take months to buy new gpu, but cant compromise with safety,
I dont mind instability, I mean if electricity goes down for 2 mins for 2 times a day, is it huge deal to buy ups?
But I would mind if this cause issue to hardware..
I wouldn't say that my area electricity is 24/7 but power goes cut for 2 to 10 mins
In a day, but most likely stable no spike in voltage or dim.
Is there any option to add one more ups ? XD
What if i buy apc 1500va which is 800w and use my current 1kva for another power supply in same rig?
But still is it really necessary, i hardly saved this money,also lost much in fuds,
But again i would say will never compromise with safety.
Edit.And thank you guys for suggestions.


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## Kursah (Feb 1, 2018)

Daily outages and regular instability, I'd have say get a UPS. And having a dedicated one for each UPS wouldn't hurt and will extend your running time in outage situations, reduce the load on the batteries and potentially allow for the UPSes to last longer. Though with that kind of power fluxuation, I would expect UPSes to be a more regularly replaced item to maintain any kind of income-driven operation. IMHO.


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## Honey (Feb 2, 2018)

UPDATE1.
Met with Bitcoin Mining Specialist, (he had upto 100 Rigs at our town,
i saw his farm, he was using SINEWAVE UPS 2000VA for every RIG, from more than a year..
so i bought it and tested, it is giving 40 mins of Backup on 4gtx 1070 with OC and still going on power outage (havent test till last)
it have multiple MCB, and i tested to DIM the current and voltage and other various task to which can harm rig,
it gave well safety..
using 2 batteries of 12V of EXIDE brand
and inverter of SUKAM brand both with 2 years warranty,
saw the box, was labelled as for "heavy Computers"
this saved my investment alot,
it took 238$ to setup it..


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## silkstone (Feb 2, 2018)

Papahyooie said:


> A UPS is recommended, not to protect your hardware so much as to protect your profits. In the case of a minor power outage, or in places where power fluctuates, a UPS would keep your rigs mining when power went out for milliseconds, or even seconds. In places where power is dirty or unreliable, a serious miner would have to manually turn all his machines back on after a power blip (unless he had machines capable of auto restoring power, and configured them to do so.)
> 
> If you've got clean, stable power, it's not a necessity at all.



A serious miner would set up their computer to turn on on AC power loss and have scripts to restart the miners.


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## Papahyooie (Feb 2, 2018)

silkstone said:


> A serious miner would set up their computer to turn on on AC power loss and have scripts to restart the miners.


Indeed, as long as the hardware is capable of it.... that's exactly what I said...  but a "serious miner" would also have a UPS on each of his machines too.


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## R-T-B (Feb 2, 2018)

Papahyooie said:


> Indeed, as long as the hardware is capable of it.... that's exactly what I said...  but a "serious miner" would also have a UPS on each of his machines too.



Depends on ROI.  Personally, I think a serious miner would skip the UPS and use a ramdisk based self-extracting OS that is immune to unexpected shutdowns.


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## Sasqui (Feb 2, 2018)

Honey said:


> UPDATE1.
> Met with Bitcoin Mining Specialist, (he had upto 100 Rigs at our town,
> i saw his farm, he was using SINEWAVE UPS 2000VA for every RIG, from more than a year..
> so i bought it and tested, it is giving 40 mins of Backup on 4gtx 1070 with OC and still going on power outage (havent test till last)
> ...



Nice


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## Papahyooie (Feb 2, 2018)

R-T-B said:


> Depends on ROI.  Personally, I think a serious miner would skip the UPS and use a ramdisk based self-extracting OS that is immune to unexpected shutdowns.



True, but that depends on the power grid. If you get brown-outs every half hour that cause the machines to restart, that could easily lead to lost profitability enough to make a UPS worth it, even with such an OS and the proper shutdown-recovery configuration in place.

EDIT: I think my original statement was misunderstood... I wasn't trying to say what a "serious" miner would and wouldn't do. I was simply saying for a serious miner (and by proxy, with a lot of rigs), manually powering on a large number of rigs after an outage would be a huge headache. So a solution must be found, IF said serious miner is in danger of having periodic restarts. If power is reliable enough, then simply setting the mobo to auto boot, then auto starting mining on bootup would be sufficient. Using a ramdisk based OS would be extra insurance indeed. But if power is sketchy, a UPS would protect profits more than anything, and in those cases the ROI would be sufficient to validate the cost. 

I'm not trying to imply that someone isn't serious if they don't do a particular thing, or that my analysis is the only solution... I was simply saying that a UPS for a small-time miner is not at all necessary, and the main want for one for a "serious" miner is to protect profits, not necessarily to protect hardware (or software, as RTB pointed out.)


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## silkstone (Feb 3, 2018)

Papahyooie said:


> True, but that depends on the power grid. If you get brown-outs every half hour that cause the machines to restart, that could easily lead to lost profitability enough to make a UPS worth it, even with such an OS and the proper shutdown-recovery configuration in place.
> 
> EDIT: I think my original statement was misunderstood... I wasn't trying to say what a "serious" miner would and wouldn't do. I was simply saying for a serious miner (and by proxy, with a lot of rigs), manually powering on a large number of rigs after an outage would be a huge headache. So a solution must be found, IF said serious miner is in danger of having periodic restarts. If power is reliable enough, then simply setting the mobo to auto boot, then auto starting mining on bootup would be sufficient. Using a ramdisk based OS would be extra insurance indeed. But if power is sketchy, a UPS would protect profits more than anything, and in those cases the ROI would be sufficient to validate the cost.
> 
> I'm not trying to imply that someone isn't serious if they don't do a particular thing, or that my analysis is the only solution... I was simply saying that a UPS for a small-time miner is not at all necessary, and the main want for one for a "serious" miner is to protect profits, not necessarily to protect hardware (or software, as RTB pointed out.)



Yup. I'm sure some of the big-time miners would have some sort of UPS as well as diesel generators for the longer period cuts. In Asia the power cuts can be hours long and a UPS wouldn't be much help.


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## AsRock (Feb 3, 2018)

R-T-B said:


> I don't run my miner on a ups.
> 
> The worst you'd see frankly is OS corruption neccesitating a reinstall, but even that is unlikely if you use a standard surge surpressor and run a CHKDSK and/or disk check post outage.



just software ?, most cases yeah sure but you know full well it can be a hell lot worse than that even more so if the PC's PSU don't fail before frying random stuff in the PC.  

Better off just getting one unless the system(s) don't have any real value, all so meaning you can just go out and buy replacement gear.  All so depends on were you live to as some places are really bad.  I opted to do so partly due this area we live in is classed a a business area which means the outlets are actually around 120-125v depending on the time of day.


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## silkstone (Feb 3, 2018)

AsRock said:


> just software ?, most cases yeah sure but you know full well it can be a hell lot worse than that even more so if the PC's PSU don't fail before frying random stuff in the PC.
> 
> Better off just getting one unless the system(s) don't have any real value, all so meaning you can just go out and buy replacement gear.  All so depends on were you live to as some places are really bad.  I opted to do so partly due this area we live in is classed a a business area which means the outlets are actually around 120-125v depending on the time of day.



That 'shouldn't' happen if you have a good quality PSU. However, I see a lot of products aimed for miners that list themselves at 2000 W platinum ++ that are made by unknown companies. I have also seen a fair share of facebook photos showing burned down mining farms here. It makes me laugh that they spend thousands of dollars on acquiring the video cards for their rigs, then go cheap on the PSU, which is arguably the most important component of the mining rig.

My main PC is mining using a good platinum unit and my little miner is running using a FSP 850 W Gold. both are more than adequate for their purposes and I could probably add a 5th card to the mining rig. I'm actually holding out for another 1080 Ti so I can go SLI on my main rig. Totally overkill for gaming, but it should future-proof me  Mining is the only way I can justify spending any considerable amount of money on my PC to the Mrs. without it, I'd still be rocking a 2500K and 1060


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## AsRock (Feb 3, 2018)

True but even a good PSU can fail in a bad way.


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## verycharbroiled (Feb 4, 2018)

my power is generally good but we do get blips that trigger my UPSs every week or so. sometimes the miner makes it through the blip, sometimes not.

so my regular computers and network infrastructure (HTPC, daily driver rig, switches, router, modem, NAS etc) are on pure sine wave APC Smart UPSs,

but miners that draw 1200+ watts? not worth it to me for it to have its own UPS, too expensive for one of sufficient capacity. its set to resume after power loss and the miner software auto starts. if the OS gets corrupt i just restore the OS from the latest image, takes just a few minutes. anytime i change the miner setup i do a new image, so the backup image is always current.

main thing is use very good quality PSUs, either server PSUs or good ATX units like EVGA, Seasonic etc. dont run the PSUs over 70-80% so they have a bit of reserve. i also have a whole house surge suppressor.


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## Honey (Feb 4, 2018)

Update2. i changed UPS from SUKAM to Smart PureSinewave UPS brand name Luminous (well known premium brand) power draw 1700w 2 years warranty.
https://www.luminousindia.com/products-62/power-backup-solutions/inverter-home-ups/cruze-hkva.html
more protected and certified for computers..
Edit. also have done special ground arrangment for PC.


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## John Naylor (Feb 4, 2018)

I ran a municipal electric utility for 8 years and this is my experience looking from the "claims made" side.  EAch claim was investigated and usually involved appliances and sometimes PCs.

UPS ($300+) - Never saw  any claims in this category where they weighed 60 pounds and kept the box up for 30 minutes or so.
UPS (~$150) - Had some claims but, most often, the damage to the PSU and other components (UPS was fine) was determined to be caused by the UPS incompatibility with PSU not the electrical distribution system.
Surge Protector ($90+) - With rare exceptions, these did what they were supposed to do.
Surge protector ($15 - $35) - Might as well not have had one.


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