# Truth on Money orders a mini info post



## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 23, 2010)

I know some people have never used money orders some do not know how they work heres a few points for those of you worried about money orders.

1) The money order is paid in full at time of purchase.  Meaning if i offer to pay you with a money order i have to pay the US postal service the full fee. This means the money order is backed and unlike checks etc wont bounce. example i send you a money order for $100 i had to pay the post office $100 first.

2) When cashing a money order you must have identification present this makes things a bit harder for someone using a fake name to cash the money order or for someone to steal it and cash it.

3) A money order costs a few cents to purchase at the local post office. aka the USPS

4) Money orders are like anything these days they have other security measures such as water marks other tell tale signs. A money order in theory is just as safe or safer then a check in certain situations.

Hopefully this clears up some issues for those who do not understand what a money order is does or what its purpose may be.


note i would have posted this in the sales thread but it dosent really have a prefix that fits  a mods help would be nice in that regard


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## JrRacinFan (Jul 24, 2010)

Bump. This needs stickied so others can read it.


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## n-ster (Jul 24, 2010)

Maybe you should have put it in General lol...

While this is mostly known to most buyer/sellers, new buyers or sellers can be reassured with this post


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## a_ump (Jul 24, 2010)

my first purchase i used a money order. only drawback was that it'll take 5days or more for the money order to get even a state away sometimes. So i rushed the order making the total 78 bucks iinstead of intended 70. Pay-pal is def a better option, but money orders are useful for those without debit or credit card which i hadn't got mine yet lol


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## theonedub (Jul 24, 2010)

Maybe add to the post the different security features to look for to make sure the MO is genuine. Just like paper currency money orders have things like microprinting, watermarks, color shifting ink, raised ink and some unique features like heat sensitive portions.

Like Crazy mentioned, USPS is the cheapest place to get them and most everyone is pretty comfortable with USPS Money Orders. Wal-Mart has Moneygram MOs and most banks supply them too although they are a couple dollars more.


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## n-ster (Jul 24, 2010)

All my purchases were done while me being a minor (17) through paypal (with my bank account and putting 1 year less on the birthday year )

lol I'm incriminating myself

Western union and Moneygram are rip-offs, just rush the MO... WU and MG are mostly to stay anonymous, ie: drug dealers use WU ALOT


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 24, 2010)

well as many of the ppl that deal with me are aware i have no bank account thus no paypal therefore with only cash in hand the only way i can do buisness is with money orders period.

I can understand some peoples trepidation sure but this is a post for those that feel that way

but considering ive delt with Theonedub, Kantastic, Sneekypeet, JrRacinfan and many others. I do feel a bit discouraged during some transactions where im turned down simply because i use money orders.  I realize its not instant money. My main point with this is that some ppl with 50+ heatware feed back have no idea money orders = guaranteed money.

Ill update the post for sure.

and ive sent alot of money orders usually takes 3 days to arrive on average and im about as far north east you can be in the USA lol


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## erocker (Jul 24, 2010)

They are an unwanted hassle for the seller sometimes, myself included. I'd rather just use PayPal and be done with it.


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## theonedub (Jul 24, 2010)

n-ster said:


> All my purchases were done while me being a minor (17) through paypal (with my bank account and putting 1 year less on the birthday year )
> 
> lol I'm incriminating myself
> 
> *Western union and Moneygram are rip-offs*, just rush the MO... WU and MG are mostly to stay anonymous, ie: drug dealers use WU ALOT



I guess it would be important to note that Western Union and Moneygram are businesses. They provide all sorts of money services including money transfers and money orders. I agree their money transfer business is a rip off in most situations, but a MO from them is no different then one from USPS (other than in cost).


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 24, 2010)

I understand that erocker but in the end not dealing with them means you may miss out on timely sales.


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## n-ster (Jul 24, 2010)

some people accept canadian paypal e-checks (5-7 days to clear), but not MO... Now that's a problem


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## erocker (Jul 24, 2010)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> I understand that erocker but in the end not dealing with them means you may miss out on timely sales.



Not really. A money order takes a few days to reach me, then I have to go to the bank to deposit it. Even then I have to wait a further 24 hours for it to go through (yes, even money orders). It's just much more simple to have money immediately in my PayPal account and I can get the item out much quicker. I don't have the luxury of living close to a bank since I'm in the middle of nowhere. Honestly, I would rather miss the sale and take PayPal from someone else.


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## AlienIsGOD (Jul 24, 2010)

I feel safer with a Postal money order.... Thats the route i went with selling my g/f unused copy of kurzwiel 3000 learning software.... all i had to do was go to the post office and get the check cashed....


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 24, 2010)

hmmm well as i said i can see that point in using paypal etc but i myself dont have the luxury of using paypal


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## theonedub (Jul 24, 2010)

Alien has it right, you can cash USPS MOs at the PO and its instant cash in hand. I live about 30mins away from my bank, but I have a PO much closer. Now that I think about it, its probably a lot faster if I wanted cash in hand to use a USPS MO (but needing cash in hand is rare for me).


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## erocker (Jul 24, 2010)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> hmmm well as i said i can see that point in using paypal etc but i myself dont have the luxury of using paypal



Is there an age limit for PayPal or something?


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## n-ster (Jul 24, 2010)

You have to be 18


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 24, 2010)

no i dont have a bank account and i dont feel like posting why on the forums either but many here on TPU are aware of why regardless.  To put it simply having a bank account to make paypal usefull would 100% cripple me if anyone really has to know why they can PM me just dont feel like posting it in a thread the world can see. Im an open person just not open to the entire world


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## erocker (Jul 24, 2010)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> no i dont have a bank account and i dont feel like posting why on the forums either but many here on TPU are aware of why regardless.  To put it simply having a bank account to make paypal usefull would 100% cripple me if anyone really has to know why they can PM me just dont feel like posting it in a thread the world can see. Im an open person just not open to the entire world



Same reason I don't like showing my ID wherever I go to cash some check.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 24, 2010)

well not really mines more ridiculous absurd to an extreme extent but nothing actually bad which makes it comical. It actually has little effect on me personally but would have serious ramification for the family.

okay jr pointed it out my posts sound really really bad to clear up some confusion it would result in me losing the roof over my head and the ability to pay back my college loans among other serious issues as i said im willing to share details just not on a forum topic viewable to the world.


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## TheLaughingMan (Jul 24, 2010)

Is there an easy way to deposit money to PayPal without a Bank Account?


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## twilyth (Jul 24, 2010)

do not trust bank money orders.  This scan is so common that craigslist used to have a banner warning on every listing.  The bank will take them and add the money to your account.  But several days later when the MO bounces, they come back and deduct it.

USPS MO's are safe as long as you're sure they're genuine.


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## AsRock (Jul 24, 2010)

a_ump said:


> my first purchase i used a money order. only drawback was that it'll take 5days or more for the money order to get even a state away sometimes. So i rushed the order making the total 78 bucks iinstead of intended 70. Pay-pal is def a better option, but money orders are useful for those without debit or credit card which i hadn't got mine yet lol



Or don't trust paypal with card numbers like come on we never hear anyone being ripped off using paypal do we .  

I always use Mo's last one was for $179 + the 1.10 charge.

BTW a max MO here at least is 1K.



erocker said:


> Same reason I don't like showing my ID wherever I go to cash some check.



Pretty much what ya do sending your private data though paypal which you count on being secure.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 24, 2010)

well again i personally dont have a bank account so i only use USPS money orders


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## Kantastic (Jul 24, 2010)

You don't really need a bank account to use PayPal, you're just limited to $500 in transactions a month. That's hardly restricting, but I tend to verify my PayPal accounts (yes, I now have 2) so I can cash out money from PayPal.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 24, 2010)

yea see thats just it paypal does me no good for any of my bills currently or anything else in my case money sets in the account and for what purpose? in most cases not enough to buy what i need in others stuck there unable to get it. lol its why having a bank account is pretty much necessary for smooth transactions


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## newtekie1 (Jul 24, 2010)

Nice thread, maybe something can be added about Cashier's Checks as well, as they are guaranteed also.


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## twilyth (Jul 24, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> Nice thread, maybe something can be added about Cashier's Checks as well, as they are guaranteed also.



NO!!!  Don't accept anything issued by a bank.  Here is the warning from craigslist:



> FAKE CASHIER CHECKS & MONEY ORDERS ARE COMMON, and BANKS WILL CASH THEM AND THEN HOLD YOU RESPONSIBLE when the fake is discovered weeks later.


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## AsRock (Jul 24, 2010)

twilyth said:


> NO!!!  Don't accept anything issued by a bank.  Here is the warning from craigslist:



But can they not tell at the PO that a MO is fake when you take it in ?. I was fairly sure last time i checked one in they put it though a machine.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 24, 2010)

yea they put the money order through a machine at my local post office as well cashier checks tho i wont touch with a 10 foot pole


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## TheLaughingMan (Jul 24, 2010)

I am with Crazy, I will accept a USPS money orders.  No banks, no credit companies.  Maybe a money order from Wal-mart.

Simply put, I can go to a local post office or wal-mart and just go, "Hey can you verify this serial number matches the total, etc. on the money order."  Two minutes later I can verify if it is real or not.

I use PayPal cause I have an account and TPU users prefer it.


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## theonedub (Jul 24, 2010)

twilyth said:


> NO!!!  Don't accept anything issued by a bank.  Here is the warning from craigslist:



Anything can be faked or forged (USPS MOs have been faked too you know). That warning is mainly for the people who use Craigslist that have no common sense  It doesn't help that MOs & Cashier's Checks are the most common tool of 419/Nigerian Scammers now too.

As long as you use common sense and check out the MO you should have no issues with them whether they are from a bank, USPS, or any other business.


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## twilyth (Jul 24, 2010)

theonedub said:


> Anything can be faked or forged (USPS MOs have been faked too you know). That warning is mainly for the people who use Craigslist that have no common sense  It doesn't help that MOs & Cashier's Checks are the most common tool of 419/Nigerian Scammers now too.
> 
> As long as you use common sense and check out the MO you should have no issues with them whether they are from a bank, USPS, or any other business.


Well personally, I don't see enough money orders or cashier's checks to be able to tell a fake.  If you can, great.  And I don't know what you mean by "check out the MO".  You can't do anything until you have it in your hand and then what?  You call the bank?

Maybe it's as easy to counterfeit USPS MO's too, IDK.  I seem to recall that they use intaglio printing and other security features that I don't remember seeing on bank MO's.  Maybe they've been updated in recent years and have holograms and shit on them now.  I have no idea.

Personally, if I ever sell anything on CL it's be cash or nothing.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 24, 2010)

last i checked MO also have that tiny tiny tiny plastic strip inside them much like US paper currency its extremely hard to mimic that tiny plastic inlay


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## twilyth (Jul 24, 2010)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> last i checked MO also have that tiny tiny tiny plastic strip inside them much like US paper currency its extremely hard to mimic that tiny plastic inlay



Maybe not, but it's probably a lot easier to steal than the paper they use for currency - just sayin'


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 24, 2010)

true but considering the machine the ink and auto process along with the numbering system that goes throughout the state it would be in all likely hood far harder to make a MO then it would be to make a counterfiet bill i know because there was fake $5 and $10 bills going around my town they people responsible were already caught and sent to jail for it. lol cant speak for nation wide of course but for the most part ppl around here are to lazy to do that they would rather puff puff pass and laugh at a bow flex commercial then to bother with taking an MO lmao


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## brandonwh64 (Jul 24, 2010)

You will have to have a bank account sooner or later in life. not all jobs will pay you in checks and you wont be able to keep up in the world as it will be in the digital future. i know you probly have reasons but a bank account it almost required at alot of places, Hell you cant even get into the military without one.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jul 24, 2010)

i realize that and like i mentioned earlier in the post to those intrested to PM me im not ashamed of my situation lol just dont like the idea of posting it for the entire world lol


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## twilyth (Jul 24, 2010)

brandonwh64 said:


> You will have to have a bank account sooner or later in life. not all jobs will pay you in checks and you wont be able to keep up in the world as it will be in the digital future. i know you probly have reasons but a bank account it almost required at alot of places, Hell you cant even get into the military without one.



In terms of moving up in the world, you're absolutely right - as long as we're not including stuff like pimping  

But there is a huge cash economy out there and while only taking cash limits your options, it by no means eliminates them.


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## theonedub (Jul 24, 2010)

twilyth said:


> Well personally, I don't see enough money orders or cashier's checks to be able to tell a fake.  If you can, great.  And I don't know what you mean by "check out the MO".  You can't do anything until you have it in your hand and then what?  You call the bank?
> 
> Maybe it's as easy to counterfeit USPS MO's too, IDK.  I seem to recall that they use intaglio printing and other security features that I don't remember seeing on bank MO's.  Maybe they've been updated in recent years and have holograms and shit on them now.  I have no idea.
> 
> Personally, if I ever sell anything on CL it's be cash or nothing.



I don't want to start an argument, but for a long time I did not like paying my apt rent with a personal check so I used money orders so I have some personal experience with them.

No matter where I bought the MO, whether it be from Wal-Mart, my personal bank, or USPS, all of them had security features you could look for to make sure it was legit (which is why I asked Crazy to add a mention of security features to the original post). A lot, if not all MOs, actually tell you what sec features to look for right on the money order- thats what I mean by Check out the MO  

I don't like how you say "You can't do anything until you have it in your hand and then what?" I mean how is that any different from the potential of receiving fake cash? If it looks suspicious don't take it- just like cash. If you like, yes you can call the bank too. 

But don't get me wrong, when I make any deal on CL its cash in hand or gfy.


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## DaedalusHelios (Jul 24, 2010)

When cashing money orders, if it turns out that it is fraudulent the person who cashed it is required to come up with the money plus a fee. Not the one who gave you the fraudulent money order. Of course if they are caught they get charged with fraud which will cost them jail time and/or fines. Basically it is just like bouncing a check. Unless that somehow changed recently. 


A certified check from a large national bank is much safer than money orders and businesses use them when bank transfers might take longer to process. My bank charges no fee to issue them for me. But they must be the bank you use to issue them for you or they may charge you a fee or not issue you one at all. Certified checks from banks can be cashed anywhere.


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## twilyth (Jul 24, 2010)

theonedub said:


> I don't want to start an argument, but for a long time I did not like paying my apt rent with a personal check so I used money orders so I have some personal experience with them.
> 
> No matter where I bought the MO, whether it be from Wal-Mart, my personal bank, or USPS, all of them had security features you could look for to make sure it was legit (which is why I asked Crazy to add a mention of security features to the original post). A lot, if not all MOs, actually tell you what sec features to look for right on the money order- thats what I mean by Check out the MO
> 
> ...



I know there are a lot of stupid people out there but there are also a lot who tend to be trusting - and the 2 are not the same.  I have to assume that if it is so common that CL had banner ads on every page - which they did for quite a while - saying not to take MO's that they had a good reason and that reason couldn't be solely the stupidity of the people being duped.

So it seemed like you were dismissive of it being a serious problem.  That's what I was really responding to.  Maybe some fakes are just printed off on an inkjet and the people who take them don't even look.  But I can easily imagine that some fakes might be very good and that it might not take a lot of effort or knowledge to create a good fake.

Did you every hear of check washing for example?  You can remove the pen ink from a check with solvents and then rewrite it for a higher amount while leaving the signature in tact.  Who's to say that you can't do something like that with an MO?  Get one for $5 and remake it out to $500.

Also, I think in many cases the MO's are drawn on banks that are either defunct or which never existed.  I would imagine that if you can get the blank forms, you could print your own.  Go to any office supply store that deals in used equipment, and they probably have a couple pallets of the imprinters.

Just look at how embarrassed a lot of state and fed agencies were when they found out that their copy machines kept all images on hard disk.  When those machines were sold for surplus, anyone could buy them and get very highly confidential data about all sorts of things and people.  Anything that is in common use in all banks will not be hard to get a hold of - not hard in the least.

The bottom line is that I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground regarding this stuff, but I have a decent imagination.  And if I can imagine easy ways to create high quality if not perfect fakes, then I know the bad guys have already come up with many, many more.


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## AsRock (Jul 24, 2010)

DaedalusHelios said:


> When cashing money orders, if it turns out that it is fraudulent the person who cashed it is required to come up with the money plus a fee. Not the one who gave you the fraudulent money order. Of course if they are caught they get charged with fraud which will cost them jail time and/or fines. Basically it is just like bouncing a check. Unless that somehow changed recently.
> 
> 
> A certified check from a large national bank is much safer than money orders and businesses use them when bank transfers might take longer to process. My bank charges no fee to issue them for me. But they must be the bank you use to issue them for you or they may charge you a fee or not issue you one at all. Certified checks from banks can be cashed anywhere.



Them charging you for a fake MO would not stand up on court as long as you communicated to who sent it to you.

USPS is in enough debt never mind putting that crap on people.


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## shevanel (Jul 24, 2010)

Another good thing about a USPS money order is that not only can you cash it at the PO you can also cash it using the stub if for some reason it gets hung up or lost in transit.


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## DonInKansas (Jul 24, 2010)

So basically, don't do a deal you don't feel comfortable with.  End of story.  Some people have their preferences, just like in every walk of life.  Don't wanna take Paypal?  Don't.  Don't wanna take Money Orders?  Don't.  Don't want to sell to Nigerian Jim Bob and his IOU with an elephant and jaguar on it?  Don't.  You can be scammed with any money type changing hands; NONE are 100% reliable.  That's the risk of doing business.  Don't like it?  Go live off the land in a tent.  I'll even donate the tinfoil hat.


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## twilyth (Jul 24, 2010)

AsRock said:


> Them charging you for a fake MO would not stand up on court as long as you communicated to who sent it to you.
> 
> USPS is in enough debt never mind putting that crap on people.



I'm pretty sure that's not true.  I had to research this when my gf was selling all her family's stuff prior to their move.  And that why the CL warning I quoted further up in this thread says that your bank will charge you for the MO when it bounces.

If it's an obvious forgery or fake, then you might be right.  It would be like drawing ben franklin on a piece of toilet paper and presenting it as a $100 bill.

But if it looks legit, the bank probably doesn't have an obligation to look further.

Either way though, you're out the money - or rather whatever it was you were selling.  In both cases, all you have is a legal cause of action against the person who gave you the bogus MO.  They'll also be subject to criminal penalties, but that doesn't really help you.  At most you would get some sense of satisfaction out of it.


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## BUCK NASTY (Jul 24, 2010)

AsRock said:


> Or don't trust paypal with card numbers like come on we never hear anyone being ripped off using paypal do we .
> 
> I always use Mo's last one was for $179 + the 1.10 charge.
> 
> ...


I am the recipient of AsRock's MO. At first I was skeptical about doing the deal, but I figured an established member with 5k post count is safe enough for one deal. It all depends on the circumstances and of course, the venerable law of "supply and demand".



DonInKansas said:


> Don't want to sell to Nigerian Jim Bob and his IOU with an elephant and jaguar on it?  Don't.  You can be scammed with any money type changing hands; NONE are 100% reliable.  That's the risk of doing business.  Don't like it?  Go live off the land in a tent.  I'll even donate the tinfoil hat.


LOL


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## theonedub (Jul 24, 2010)

twilyth said:


> I know there are a lot of stupid people out there but there are also a lot who tend to be trusting - and the 2 are not the same.  I have to assume that if it is so common that CL had banner ads on every page - which they did for quite a while - saying not to take MO's that they had a good reason and that reason couldn't be solely the stupidity of the people being duped.
> 
> So it seemed like you were dismissive of it being a serious problem.  That's what I was really responding to.  Maybe some fakes are just printed off on an inkjet and the people who take them don't even look.  But I can easily imagine that some fakes might be very good and that it might not take a lot of effort or knowledge to create a good fake.
> 
> ...



We are talking about the same Craigslist that also used to run banners for personal safety, and that still runs links across the top of the listings for 'Avoiding Scams' and 'Personal Safety'. Yes I do believe that banner is solely for the idiots out there- of which there are plenty. 

You have quite the imagination, but if you had any actual experience with money orders you would see how far fetched some of your concerns are (esp the one where you say you could grab blank forms and buy a printer @ surplus- Seriously? Maybe they have money presses available too ). Really, show me where you can buy one, then show me where you can get the software to actually use it, and then tell me where to buy the blank forms. You say its not hard, I say its near impossible.


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## DaedalusHelios (Jul 24, 2010)

AsRock said:


> Them charging you for a fake MO would not stand up on court as long as you communicated to who sent it to you.
> 
> USPS is in enough debt never mind putting that crap on people.



It is just what I have heard from others cautioning me about accepting MOs. I had heard there used to be scams that people were doing in the 80s where they would get you to cash a MO and they would get half the money. Later when it turned up fraudulent you would be approached to collect the money. Of course any cash for cash trade is always a scam in my opinion. Although it could be used to obtain items if the rules haven't changed on MOs. 

*MOs like Western union are completely electronic so they couldn't be fraudulent as long as you cashed them before sending the item right?* I always accepted those and Postal MOs and never had an issue. Although the fee is still there with Western Union.


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## El_Mayo (Jul 24, 2010)

n-ster said:


> You have to be 18



I have had a paypal since I was 15
I am now 16


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## 95Viper (Jul 24, 2010)

El_Mayo said:


> I have had a paypal since I was 15
> I am now 16



Just some FYI...Legally you have to be should be 18, as in many places a contract with a minor is not enforceable.  And, I am sure everyone reads the legal stuff before clicking agree.

PayPal US agreement quote:  
"2.1 Eligibility. To be eligible for the PayPal Services, you must be at least 18 years old and a resident of the United States or one of the countries listed on the PayPal WorldWide page. This Agreement applies only to Users who are residents of the United States. If you are a resident of another country, you may access your agreement from our website in your country (if applicable)."

Quoted from the PayPal Uk site:
"2.1 Eligibility. To be eligible for our Services, you must be at least 18 years old and a resident of one of the countries listed on the PayPal Worldwide page. You further represent and warrant to us that if you are an individual and you open an Account with us that you are not acting on behalf of an undisclosed principal or a third party beneficiary. This Agreement applies only to Users who are residents of the United Kingdom and all other European Union countries except Germany, Austria, France, Italy, Spain, The Netherlands, Belgium, Poland and the Vatican City. If you are a resident of another country, you may access your agreement from the PayPal website(s) in your country (if applicable)"

If another country you would need to check their agreement site.

Edit:

This not aimed at you directly, El_Mayo, but just in general.

There can be a lot of legal ramifications with the situation of a buy\trade\sell (cash, properties or whatever) with a minor involved.


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