# 80-way TIM shootout



## Arctucas (Jun 16, 2009)

Check it out over at Benchmark Reviews.


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## Charper2013 (Jun 16, 2009)

Wow, I didnt even know that there were that many.


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## mlee49 (Jun 16, 2009)

Thank you, very detailed review!


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## happita (Jun 16, 2009)

Very impressive review of not just the 80 pastes, but the general information about TIM's as well. Informative for everyone. Thanks!


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 16, 2009)

its strange that the collaboratory liquid metal doesnt show up in excellent performance, which is might linked to the fact, that liquid metal needs at least 48H curing time:shadedshu... this improves temperature a lot, i tested it myself with a toasty,overclocked Sapphire HD4850 Toxic... in this Example i got 4-5c°, just thru curing (on warm days), because the Vf900 was terribly finished,it had 0,5mm deep machining marks in it

Liquid Metal is the most superior Temperature-Killer-Goop for me, but it eats Aluminium (which i dont use), stains Copper, and mostly gruesome, it creates something like unremovable,tiny little dark dots and 1 2mm wide unremovable rust-donut on the die itself... its removable, but the edges are imprinted forever... ich believe it has to do with invisible scratches on the die


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## W1zzard (Jun 16, 2009)

dont look at the numbers so much .. read the review..

then come to the conclusion that the best paste if the one you can acquire easily, for a reasonable price that is easy to use


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 16, 2009)

Its normally nowwhere to obtain (in internet, in my towns little computer shack its somehow obtainable), more than 150% more expensive than arctic ceramique, applies to Dies like a Crackwhore (next to nothing) and to Heatspreaders like a bitch, but when you somehow got it to cover the spreader, it looks like a fucking mirror! and it cools way better than it looks, nearly 10c° were obtainable even with watercooling (and only cpu-lapping). But direct Die contact somehow eats it up after a month, so it gets very sensible to shock, and eventually loses full contact, which results in rapidly increasing temperature. under water and with heatspreader it seems it performs better, without decrease.
EDIT:
I forgot: its highly electrically conductive, but no other paste spreads that thin


I would say this is the perfect paste for me, as long im Overclocker?^^


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## daragez (Jun 16, 2009)

nice review!....it's very impressive!....


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## BrooksyX (Jun 16, 2009)

Hmm A- for MX-2 not surprised. Think ill stick with it.


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## King Wookie (Jun 16, 2009)

What intrigues me is how some pastes that do so well in other reviews, bomb out so badly here. But I must admit the info on paste application is most useful.


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 16, 2009)

another strange thing ist the rating of the Seven Carat Diamond... if i dont remember wrong, this goop was true shit, or at least, this is what the most reviewers found out. am i wrong?


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## Asylum (Jun 16, 2009)

Thanks for the post!!


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## MKmods (Jun 17, 2009)

It amazes me how people devote can spend all the time/effort needed to  to do these huge comparisons

 to you Olin


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 17, 2009)

you thought "Why the F*** have this Guys so much Time?"

or "How interesting their Life is" ?


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## MKmods (Jun 17, 2009)

lol, I actually know the guy here. 

He has a very interesting life and still manages to find time to help many others (including me)


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 17, 2009)

lol i dindt knew, but i were kinda pissed if i had to work thru tons of bad thermalpaste


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## Wile E (Jun 17, 2009)

I'm surprised at the strong showing AS5 has put up. Still one of the best after all these years.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 17, 2009)

W1zzard said:


> dont look at the numbers so much .. read the review..
> 
> then come to the conclusion that the best paste if the one you can acquire easily, for a reasonable price that is easy to use



I can agree with that, considering the temp difference between the very best and the very worse was only 4.5°C.


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## El Fiendo (Jun 17, 2009)

I use AS5 but I should probably go away from it. My uses are for folding rigs and I don't really give it a chance to cure with everything running 24/7 and all. 

Mind you, the extra degree it causes is hardly a killer.


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 17, 2009)

i just wondered because the difference between as5 and liquid should be at least 2-3c.
its liquid you know? the cooling properties should be superior to each oxide/silverparticle-paste, because it can fill gaps even when theyre microscopically small. No other Paste is better in it. So why are its cooling properties so bad in this review? i definetly know that i got more than 4,5c° from Ceramique changing to Liquid... does this guy uses the wrong method somehow?


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## MKmods (Jun 17, 2009)

Velvet Wafer said:


> does this guy uses the wrong method somehow?



Just so we all are clear on this what exactly makes you an expert? Or why anyone should take anything you say with more than a grain of salt?


Wile E said:


> I'm surprised at the strong showing AS5 has put up. Still one of the best after all these years.



Good news for me ... I have a bunch of the small half used tubes laying around


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## Nick89 (Jun 17, 2009)

Velvet Wafer said:


> i just wondered because the difference between as5 and liquid should be at least 2-3c.
> its liquid you know? the cooling properties should be superior to each oxide/silverparticle-paste, because it can fill gaps even when theyre microscopically small. No other Paste is better in it. So why are its cooling properties so bad in this review? i definetly know that i got more than 4,5c° from Ceramique changing to Liquid... does this guy uses the wrong method somehow?



Its not, no I dont, they arnt, it doesnt, AS5 is, because it isnt that good, no you didnt, no he didnt. 


I dont know how to say this. /facepalm


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## suraswami (Jun 17, 2009)

Wile E said:


> I'm surprised at the strong showing AS5 has put up. Still one of the best after all these years.



+1 on that.  One of the easiest to apply too.  MX-2 is instant tho.  But I never had problem with AS5, don't know why switched to MX-2.  Man now I am confused

Which one lasts longer?  MX-2 on its packing says 8 yrs, who in the heck is going to use the same PC for 8 yrs (may be).


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## MKmods (Jun 17, 2009)

lol, I am lucky to use a comp for 8 days before rebuilding..(Probably why I went to MX2)


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## hat (Jun 17, 2009)

Why don't you just beat the poor guy over the head next time? I've wondered that about particle paste myself myself. Since Arctic Silver has silver particles in it, it can never produce as truly flat of a surface as a true liquid paste like MX-2 can, and it can never fit perfectly in the little microscopic inperfections like a true liquid paste can. I believe this is the reason MX-2 has better thermal transfer than Arctic Silver 5. That and you get the nifty bonus that it's easier to clean and is not electrically conductive.


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 17, 2009)

Im not an Expert, im just asking if its possible the results are messed up somehow, like with this strange diamond paste... there is something on this review i cant trust somehow, call me an idiot, but im not pleased what i see (no curing time needed for liquid metals??? thats simply false!)

i also knew which temperature improvements i got... why do you think you have better acess to them?

Never knew Mx-2 counts to liquid pastes, but its definetly something in this direction tho not as liquid as gallium


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## devguy (Jun 17, 2009)

> Many years ago, *back when Intel Pentium 4 processors were heating homes across America*, the average computer system processor would require extreme measures to keep it stable at its base speed.





C'mon, even you intel fanboys have to be laughing at that!

Good review BTW!


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## hat (Jun 17, 2009)

It's not really a liquid, it's more of an in-between... it's not as fluid as a liquid as water but it's certianly not a hard solid like a block of wood. Anyways by liquid I ment particle free, like the example I used with Arctic Silver 5 having silver particles.


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## Steevo (Jun 17, 2009)

There is the reason that a liquid will move out and or create a seal over a air pocket that a piece of silver would move into and stay in place. 

If I remember correctly a while back a site found that on lapped mirror finished interfaces AS5 thinned with oil was the best TIM, but suffered from runout.


Excellent review of many items, well worth the read and the conclusions seem well founded.


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## NastyHabits (Jun 17, 2009)

Great article, well worth reading.  But since my temps are way low anyway due to decent liquid cooling, I'll not be switching from my two favorites - Noctua and MX-2.  I find them easy to use, easy to clean, and non-conductive is a definite plus.  But best of all, I can purchase them in a store (no shipping) that is on the way to visit my family.


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 17, 2009)

Steevo said:


> There is the reason that a liquid will move out and or create a seal over a air pocket that a piece of silver would move into and stay in place.
> 
> If I remember correctly a while back a site found that on lapped mirror finished interfaces AS5 thinned with oil was the best TIM, but suffered from runout.



Every liquid? I think Coolaboratory have encountered this problem earlier, but their actual liquid metal seems to fill up every scratch, as long as the HSF ist clean, and got no residues from other pastes, which isolate the cooling effect (says collaboratory). Air pockets begin to form when this stuff is fully cured, and someone twists the cooler... it looses its liquid nature after 2-3 Days, and when its hard, its highly sensible. this is due to the ultrathin metal coat.

They also got this Metal Pad which will burn itself in shape at 58c°, but its handling seems to be much easier,superior to the liquid metal itself... maybe try that?

im waiting for TIM with Carbon Nano Tubes.... this should outrule any crappy silver paste at all...


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## Mussels (Jun 17, 2009)

i use MX2 because its easier to apply, lasts longer in the tube, and lasts longer when applied.
While it doesnt matter so much on MY hardware how long it lasts, when i regrease my parents machine, or something i'm selling... it matters.


The best part of this article is not the results, but the information on how to apply it.


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 17, 2009)

that in fact is true... i never learned so much on goop spreading


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## Bundy (Jun 17, 2009)

I like mx2 because I'm clumsy and regularly bump the CPU cooler. It doesnt seem to loose performance because of that. When I was using As5...one bump when curedtemperatures go up, time to redo TIM.


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 17, 2009)

its a little fucked that no one in my town sells mx-2.... they only have standard goop (in plasticfoil packaged), AS5, AS Ceramique, and last but not least the liquid metal pro... strange eh?

EDIT: I read that some guys had up to 3 weeks curing time, with this liquid metal... i never believe in results without their needed curing time.


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## hat (Jun 17, 2009)

Velvet Wafer said:


> that in fact is true... i never learned so much on goop spreading



I learned from experiance that letting the pressure from the heatsink do the work is best rather than spreading it out yourself with my 9800gt and furmark. Covering the whole CPU IHS isn't really that important when you're only really cooling the actual core die underneath the IHS. On processors with more than 1 die (that means you, Dunnington) making sure it covers the whole thing is rather important though. For that situation it looks like the "x" meathod is best. I've always wondered about those HDT coolers though... this guide made good sense out of it.


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 17, 2009)

i mostly used ceramique before, and once read about spreading with thick and thin pastes... the thick paste should be spreaded by hand, on both Cooler and IHS. Thin Paste should be applied your way. Each yielded 1-2c° difference in opposition to the other, i think.

I never used an HDT, got Water after my first heatpipe cooler, air doesnt impresses me somehow. dont like warm air in my case


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## Mussels (Jun 17, 2009)

i always used the dot in the middle, with the exception of quad cores where i'd use two dots, one on each core.

two reasons: 
1: you only need grease on top of the die, and a little to the sides. having it cover the whole thing is unneccesary. 75-90% coverage is acceptable, IMO.

2: on some sockets (AMD mostly) if you get the whole thing covered you get an airtight seal, and lifting the heatsink off can pull the CPU right out of the socket. i've seen THAT happen tons of times.


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## jamesrt2004 (Jun 17, 2009)

Velvet Wafer said:


> i mostly used ceramique before, and once read about spreading with thick and thin pastes... the thick paste should be spreaded by hand, on both Cooler and IHS. Thin Paste should be applied your way. Each yielded 1-2c° difference in opposition to the other, i think.
> 
> I never used an HDT, got Water after my first heatpipe cooler, air doesnt impresses me somehow. dont like warm air in my case



wasnt it down to the fact there was NO RECOOMENDED cure time.. so they didnt cure... 

seems fair to me


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 17, 2009)

in all this years of messing with hardware, i never had the luck to do so, puh^^

this is bullshit, i used this stuff myself, tested temperatures for weeks, and there a a whole lot of people telling the same... the liquid has to get hard, in its liquid form it has too much volume and conducts not enought heat (like i said 3-4c°) it will loose at least 50% of its volume after 2 weeks


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## hat (Jun 17, 2009)

Mussels said:


> 2: on some sockets (AMD mostly) if you get the whole thing covered you get an airtight seal, and lifting the heatsink off can pull the CPU right out of the socket. i've seen THAT happen tons of times.



Hah, I've *done* that tons of times.


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 17, 2009)

ever sticked a temp sensor between the die and the base? i did. surely was fun.

first proc i ever killed... since that i tried to learn how to do before i do :-D


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## Dice (Jun 17, 2009)

Mussels said:


> 1: you only need grease on top of the die, and a little to the sides. having it cover the whole thing is unneccesary. 75-90% coverage is acceptable, IMO.



I dissagre if you are trying to get as much heat as possible away from the CPU then you want as near to 100% as possible.  Ok you get better heat transfer over the die but heat will conduct along the ihs as well. so removing heat from the edge will help pushing those ocs


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## Mussels (Jun 17, 2009)

Dice said:


> I dissagre if you are trying to get as much heat as possible away from the CPU then you want as near to 100% as possible.  Ok you get better heat transfer over the die but heat will conduct along the ihs as well. so removing heat from the edge will help pushing those ocs



i've never found that to be true. it sounds ok in theory, but its just not that simple.


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## OnBoard (Jun 17, 2009)

Velvet Wafer said:


> its a little fucked that no one in my town sells mx-2.... they only have standard goop (in plasticfoil packaged), AS5, AS Ceramique, and last but not least the liquid metal pro... strange eh?



You could order it here (they have cheap airmail for low weight stuff):
http://www.quietpc.com/fi-en-eur/products/heatsinkacc/ac-mx-2


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## Wile E (Jun 18, 2009)

suraswami said:


> +1 on that.  One of the easiest to apply too.  MX-2 is instant tho.  But I never had problem with AS5, don't know why switched to MX-2.  Man now I am confused
> 
> Which one lasts longer?  MX-2 on its packing says 8 yrs, who in the heck is going to use the same PC for 8 yrs (may be).



I've had MX-2 in my secondary rig for over a year, and when I took the sink off the other day, it was as good as new. Plus it's non-conductive and non-capacitive, so I'll keep using it over the AS5, as I didn't even get a 1C difference between the 2.

@ Velvet Wafer - There's one major downside to the Liquid Metal Pro - it eats aluminum. So if you put it on an HDT cooler, for instance, it will ruin it. There's no way I'm putting that shit anywhere near my computer. lol.


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 18, 2009)

Im on Water, and i will never use Aluminum... i even fear using air again... copper gets stained, buts its nothing to worry about, a quick scratch with a razor, a bit of polish and the base is as good as new. On ATI Cards, the ATI Logo WILL burn in, but that can happen even with normal paste.(and sadly an air cooler^^)

liquid metal is worth a cooler upgrade. thats no joke. my cheap thermaltake block suddenly cooled like a dtek fuzion... and you know already that in good watercoolers, even half a degree counts.


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## Wile E (Jun 19, 2009)

Velvet Wafer said:


> Im on Water, and i will never use Aluminum... i even fear using air again... copper gets stained, buts its nothing to worry about, a quick scratch with a razor, a bit of polish and the base is as good as new. On ATI Cards, the ATI Logo WILL burn in, but that can happen even with normal paste.(and sadly an air cooler^^)
> 
> liquid metal is worth a cooler upgrade. thats no joke. my cheap thermaltake block suddenly cooled like a dtek fuzion... and you know already that in good watercoolers, even half a degree counts.



Half a degree doesn't make a bit of difference in the real world, unless you are chasing bench records. Even then, a couple degrees C rarely makes a huge difference, unless you are trying to avoid a cold bug. But, that's just arguing semantics, so I digress.

As for the Liquid Metal Pro, it's negatives do not outweigh the positives for me. MX-2 is much easier to deal with. I swap out my block quite often. MX-2 needs no curing time, so it's perfect for me. There would be some moments in time where the Liquid Metal wouldn't even get a chance to cure. You will find many enthusiasts on this site that are like that, and therefore it is not a good TIM for them either.


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 19, 2009)

If you swap often, the negative side effects increases due to complicated spreading,and very high cost. if you tend to swap every 2-3 months, its very useful. It will ever have time to cure, and the reapplying isnt so bad, that you cant stand it every few months, it will even stick better if the cooler has been used with liquid metal before. Electrical Conductivity is not the big problem of this, opposite as silver paste, this stuff sticks to itself, and you must be some kind of moron to loose a drop of it over your board/transistors. i killed my hd 4850 with silver paste, but this stuff never worked out to be a problem

Youre right, there are many Enthusiasts for which it will be enerving
But i believe there are also much of them, that would use it, because it !SHOULD! be better than any conventional paste(regarding thermal physics, and its gapfilling nature). But Diamondpaste should be efficent also, and its really bad (too big particles?). so im confused^^

But I think more People should try it, its out since more than 3 years, but i only hear of its use sporadically. I only know what it did to MY Temperatures... and that the review somehow ignores its really good thermal-transfer by not letting it cure. So no one will try it, so no one could tell me that my thinkings about it are right or wrong

Sorry but i hear only good words, but a review with such big error (He could have messed more), should only be praised, as said, for its goop-spreading-tips... my opinion, for sure....


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## Icejon (Jun 19, 2009)

Its funny how the top 10 performers are really unavailable in retail and are hard to find.  Funny that Cooler Master Thermalfusion 400 is on the top tier.  I've never heard of this, but they have them in the local stores here.  Anyone here run Thermal Fusion 400 have any comments?


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## 1Kurgan1 (Jun 20, 2009)

I like that the best product (tied) is one of the cheapest, I found it for $3.99 compared to the Artic Silver that tied it for 19.99...

http://www.svc.com/g-751.html

Also I think this thread should be stickied, would be nice to have around to check for choices.


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## chuck216 (Jun 21, 2009)

Good review. However he did make one major mistake. When applying TIM you don't apply it to the heatsink. You're supposed to apply it to the IHS of the processor in a thin, even as possible layer covering the entire IHS of the processor, then put the HSF on top of the processor.


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## Soylent Joe (Jun 21, 2009)

It kinda makes me sad someone would put that much time into doing something like that...


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## PaulieG (Jun 21, 2009)

chuck216 said:


> Good review. However he did make one major mistake. When applying TIM you don't apply it to the heatsink. You're supposed to apply it to the IHS of the processor in a thin, even as possible layer covering the entire IHS of the processor, then put the HSF on top of the processor.



Really? No. There are a dozen ways to properly apply thermal compound, and if you don't use too much or too little, temps are going to be similar whether you apply it to the chip HS or the cooler itself. Not to mention, in certain circumstances, such as with HDT coolers, applying tim to the cooler itself can be more effective. As far as spreading it, if you use the proper amount and install your cooler correctly, most of the time the TIM will spread itself evenly. 

This has been my experience applying and reapplying TIM hundreds of times over the last 6-7 years.



Soylent Joe said:


> It kinda makes me sad someone would put that much time into doing something like that...



OK, comments like this are just annoying. This is this guys job. It's how he makes a living. He didn't do it just for the hell of it.


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## Velvet Wafer (Jun 21, 2009)

Soylent Joe said:


> It kinda makes me sad someone would put that much time into doing something like that...



it makes ME sad, that due to his methods, some pastes that are really crappy perform really well like this diamondpaste, and people enjoy reading false information due to it.


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