# Core 2 Quad or Phenom II X4?



## DeathByTray (Dec 21, 2009)

I need some input on two system I put together.

First one is the Q9300 where I would reuse my P45 Neo as well as 4 gigs of DDR2 PC2-600 RAM.
http://i.imgur.com/uXd3k.png
1'067 CHF, roughly the same in $.

The second is build around a Phenom II X4 955 (C3).
http://i.imgur.com/h58F8.png
1'262 CHF.


It will be mainly used for gaming and occasional video editing, emphasis lies on gaming though.
Had the 5850 been available a month or two ago I'd have probably gone with an i5 but my inner rational me made me abandon it. The card still isn't really available (overpriced) and as things look like atm I'll wait until the end of January, won't be much at home during that time anyways.

So, I'm wondering, can the Quad Core keep up with the Phenom? How much of a limitation is the DDR2 RAM? Which system would you choose?


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## crazyeyesreaper (Dec 21, 2009)

the 955 will overclock farther and be faster and ddr3 is dropping in price 

id suggest a 790gx board that uses AM3 ddr3  and stock cpu vs stock the 955 will decimate that Q9300

if you dont plan to overclock at all i suggest the AMD 945 it should save u some money and its still a good cpu if u plan to overclock grab the 955

i also suggest an antec 300 case it has better cooling and should be cheaper then the Xigmatek Midgard case

by going 945 / antec 300 you should be able to save a few bones so to speak and lose no performance and i dont see an aftermarket heatsink so with stock cooling ocing isnt really recommended

thus the amd phenom ii 945 makes more sense

and for comparison the Phenom 955 at stock trades blows with the Q9550 / Q9650 at stock

but if u can find a way to get an i5 750 into your budget i suggest doing that im an AMD fan but the i5 750 can overclock very well and is the better cpu just another option to consider


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## wiak (Dec 21, 2009)

AMD is the fastest of the two mate


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## crazyeyesreaper (Dec 21, 2009)

yea it is but im looking at that 200 bone difference with that much difference hes better off with i5 750 or dropping the 955 / midgard case for antec 300 / 945 for better perfromance for price in comparison to the Q9300 

Q 9300 setup $1000  
955 setup $1260 
945 + antec 300 (should) $1180 ish 
 i5 750 = $1340 (or there about) probably a bit less actually

these are rough estimates
in terms of performance

i5 750
955
945
Q9300    

in order top to bottom of fastest to slowest

as i stated if left at stock clocks it makes more sense to go 945 and get within 5% of the 955 with less cost same with the case antec 300 is better for cooling just isnt as pretty 

and in terms of performance the i5 will slaughter both with a little more cost but its still do able at around that price $50-75 difference tops

Q9300 to 955 is a $260 price jump the jump to i5 should be about $50-75 more thus why i recommend it

which reminds me where are the i5 owners to chime in when u need them


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## DeathByTray (Dec 21, 2009)

Thanks so far.
Well, it's all about price/performance ratio for me.

I am not really planning to oc, never done it either. I think I've read that the Q9300's multiplier is locked, thus it's harder to oc, does that make sense? 
Anyway, the difference between both CPUs doesn't seem to justify the price difference.
Why would you suggest a 790gx board?
I can't stand the look of the Antec but in numbers, how much of a difference would it be?

All in all, i5 is approx. 150 more with little performance gains.


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## Fourstaff (Dec 21, 2009)

I think PII X4 is better plainly because you can still upgrade your proc should it becomes too slow, while it is the end of road for the 775 socket.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Dec 21, 2009)

true but it remains the i5 will slaughter the Phenom II  and the antec may not be as pretty but here in the states its a $30 difference in terms of cpu it depends on revision but about $10-25 
dosent seem like much but $50 is $50 and here in the states we get better prices

if u want to stay just between the q9300 and 955 take the 955 

a Q9550/9650 will clock well with locked multi just the higher the multi the easier it is to overclock and the Q9300 has a low multi meaning poor ability to overclock

the 955 has unlocked mulit and can and will overclock rather easily but you said you dont overclock so either way the 955 will win.

i recommend the 790gx board as it offers crossfire support for another video card in the future should you choose it but then again if u went that route later on again the i5 would decimate the 955 in that sense


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## DeathByTray (Dec 21, 2009)

Oh I see, I went with a single PCIex16 on purpose, definitely not gonna crossfire.
The Antec isn't much cheaper, plus it looks ugly and isn't painted black inside. I'll stay with my midgard, I like that it ain't a 'mainstream' case.
I'm just not sure whether those 200$ difference justify the slightly better performance of the Phenom. If I'd be building a system from scratch, there wouldn't be a single doubt.
Question 'bout oc. How hard is it for a newbie?


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## crazyeyesreaper (Dec 21, 2009)

with a phenom 955 its easy even with stock cooling u should be able to get a 300mhz -400mhz boost and be fine with temps basically 3.6ghz 3.7ghz is almost a guaranteed if u have say a Xigmatek s1283 otherwise 3.6ghz is doable with stock cooling if your ambiet temp aka room temp isnt high with the phenom u can just bump the multi 2 times and bump the voltage 1 click and test for stability and hit 3.6ghz theres more to it then that but theres a lot of ppl on these forums that can help you ever step of the way


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## PaulieG (Dec 21, 2009)

DeathByTray said:


> Oh I see, I went with a single PCIex16 on purpose, definitely not gonna crossfire.
> The Antec isn't much cheaper, plus it looks ugly and isn't painted black inside. I'll stay with my midgard, I like that it ain't a 'mainstream' case.
> I'm just not sure whether those 200$ difference justify the slightly better performance of the Phenom. If I'd be building a system from scratch, there wouldn't be a single doubt.
> Question 'bout oc. How hard is it for a newbie?



If you read the guides on overclocking here and elsewhere, it's not very difficult. Just make sure you do read/educate yourself before trying it. You just need to be patient, increase speeds and voltages in small increments, and keep an eye on temps.


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## DeathByTray (Dec 21, 2009)

Will do, thanks.
Hmpf.. I am as undecided as ever. It probably comes down to how much of a difference DDR2 will make, any ideas?


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## Tatty_One (Dec 21, 2009)

DeathByTray said:


> Will do, thanks.
> Hmpf.. I am as undecided as ever. It probably comes down to how much of a difference DDR2 will make, any ideas?



For gaming..... little difference, get a good 4gig of overclockable PC8500 if you are gonna give CPU overclocking a try.

IMO the PII is more than enough for a mainly gaming rig although perhaps an E0 stepping Q9550 with overclocking may yeild slightly better results for the overclocker (dependant on motherboard), all in all, to spread the risk (just in case your overclocking expolits dont work out too well) I would probably go for the PII.


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## DeathByTray (Dec 21, 2009)

Tatty_One said:


> For gaming..... little difference, get a good 4gig of overclockable PC8500 if you are gonna give CPU overclocking a try.


That's out of question though. Either I am going to reuse my old staff and put the Q9300 on it or I am going with AMD. Because additional RAM would kill the price/performance ratio (+futureproofing) as far as I am concerned. Aww.. tough decision.


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## vega22 (Dec 21, 2009)

if you can get a new 9550 for reusing your old stuff, if not go with a new amd build.

cpu bellow the q9550 dont clock aswell and have less cache both of which lessen performance.


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## cdawall (Dec 21, 2009)

look at the phenom 925 as well with almost any 790GX/FX board you can clock them to a good 3.6-3.8ghz with air cooling








old NV780A board did this and is sitting stable on a xigmatek DK with a scythe on it


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## Kantastic (Dec 21, 2009)

cdawall said:


> look at the phenom 925 as well with almost any 790GX/FX board you can clock them to a good 3.6-3.8ghz with air cooling
> 
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/091221/Capture013.jpg
> ...



If he's only interested in 1 PCI-E X16 slot then 785G will save him money and not compromise OC'ability.


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## MN12BIRD (Dec 21, 2009)

Normally I would say PII hands down if it was a new build.  

But since you already have the motherboard and a good P45 motherboard at that it's a tough one! 

I would almost say get a q9550 as others have mentioned.  

Oh wait I thought you were just buying motherboard/CPU upgrade.  But you basically are buying a new machine!  Case, PSU, video card...  everything except the motherboard in the one setup!

Because you're buying a whole new PC's worth of parts I say get the Phenom II and DDR3.

DDR3 isn't much of a performance upgrade but your already spending a grand might as well go that extra little bit and get a whole new PC! 

If it was just a mobo/CPU upgrade I would say keep the P45 board.  But now you will have two PC's so you can keep the old one and still use it or sell it.


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## DeathByTray (Dec 22, 2009)

The Q9550 would cost me an additional 60.- So yea, guess you're right, AMD it shall be. 
Is it yet known whether the 28nm CPUs will be compatible with AM3?


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## devguy (Dec 22, 2009)

Bulldozer 32nm desktop chips will be on socket AM3r2, which can be thought of as AM3+.  Chances are very high that they will be backwards compatible with AM3 (otherwise, I'd be extremely upset with AMD).

28nm is a partial step down from 32nm that I doubt AMD or Intel will bother to build their processors for.  Although, I strongly expect to see AMD and nVidia building their GPU chips for that.


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## DeathByTray (Dec 22, 2009)

Oh I see, thanks.
I thought I've seen the 28nm CPU on their roadmap for 2011 but actually it's Globalfoundries roadmap.


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## Kei (Dec 22, 2009)

cdawall said:


> look at the phenom 925 as well with almost any 790GX/FX board you can clock them to a good 3.6-3.8ghz with air cooling



I second that response, I had a Phenom II X4 920 and that thing even with the locked multiplier would clock to the moon! I never imagined that a Phenom with locked upwards multiplier could clock so high on bus speed alone. On air cooling the highest I ended up was 3.9Ghz with my Xigmatek HDT S-1283. For daily running getting 3.5-3.7Ghz I doubt would be any problem at all on any Phenom II 920/925.

They also cost less than the 955 or 965 processors as well by at least $20-25 which may help you out. 

Kei


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## subhendu (Dec 22, 2009)

cdawall said:


> look at the phenom 925 as well with almost any 790GX/FX board you can clock them to a good 3.6-3.8ghz with air cooling
> 
> 
> http://img.techpowerup.org/091221/Capture013.jpg
> ...





Kei said:


> I second that response, I had a Phenom II X4 920 and that thing even with the locked multiplier would clock to the moon! I never imagined that a Phenom with locked upwards multiplier could clock so high on bus speed alone. On air cooling the highest I ended up was 3.9Ghz with my Xigmatek HDT S-1283. For daily running getting 3.5-3.7Ghz I doubt would be any problem at all on any Phenom II 920/925.
> 
> They also cost less than the 955 or 965 processors as well by at least $20-25 which may help you out.
> 
> Kei



I have 780G asus mobo and 4gb 800mhz transcend ram ...is it possible to overclock a P II x4 920 or 955 to 3.5-3.7 stable with my setup?


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## Zubasa (Dec 22, 2009)

Kei said:


> I second that response, I had a Phenom II X4 920 and that thing even with the locked multiplier would clock to the moon! I never imagined that a Phenom with locked upwards multiplier could clock so high on bus speed alone. On air cooling the highest I ended up was 3.9Ghz with my Xigmatek HDT S-1283. For daily running getting 3.5-3.7Ghz I doubt would be any problem at all on any Phenom II 920/925.
> 
> They also cost less than the 955 or 965 processors as well by at least $20-25 which may help you out.
> 
> Kei


I mean even the PII 810 can do that 
For the Phenom II the skys the limit on the base clock.


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## Kei (Dec 22, 2009)

That's another good point lol. 

Kei


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## Kei (Dec 22, 2009)

subhendu said:


> I have 780G asus mobo and 4gb 800mhz transcend ram ...is it possible to overclock a P II x4 920 or 955 to 3.5-3.7 stable with my setup?



Do you have either of the processors to try out? You will be limited with that chipset of course, but I don't doubt that you could still get a nice clock on it.

Either way if you System Specs listed are correct....even running 100% stock they will blow your current system so far in to the weeds it will make you sick to the stomach! 

Kei


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## subhendu (Dec 22, 2009)

Kei said:


> Do you have either of the processors to try out? You will be limited with that chipset of course, but I don't doubt that you could still get a nice clock on it.
> 
> Either way if you System Specs listed are correct....even running 100% stock they will blow your current system so far in to the weeds it will make you sick to the stomach!
> 
> Kei



I am planning to get a P II x4...but can u tell me which is the best chipset and VFM mobo for pii  x4 ?


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## 3volvedcombat (Dec 22, 2009)

I would choose the core 2 quad q9450 and above over any phenom II really at the moment. There are going to be new chipsets for the Phenom II's but anustly sata 2.0 is fast enough, and clock for clock the q9450 and above perform better basicly the Phenom II's. 

Also essential if you get one of the newest batches intel has realeased in 09 or the newest batch you will be doing 4.0Ghz under 1.25volts threw processor. My loads on my q9550 at 1.232 volts 65 run of intel burn test maxmium stable, are around 51-55c on a hot day. I tested today and the first two runs i never broke 50c in inteburntest. Over all the Phenom II's are cheaper they are getting new chipsets and AMD will be realeasing 6 core processors for the same motherboards your purchasing for your Phenom II's

But i have a rape q9550, so im going to stick with my q9550, and say core 2 quad is the way to go, faster clock per clock, and put it on a x48 board with ddr3 and bam you get Phenom II am3 with a core 2 quad. 

Go to microcenter, look for the latest batch q9550 and buy it for 169.99 e0 stepping 08/1/09 packing date or even earlier and i have a great suspicion that processor will blow the door's of a Phenom II for 24/7 clocks.


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