# Highend PC, but LGA1155 or LGA2011?



## GC_PaNzerFIN (Apr 16, 2012)

Hi guys. Me and my friend are looking at little upgrade at same time and have hard time figuring out what would be the best platform in terms of future. 

I am going back to ATX size motherboard as I need more slots and space, he is coming from S775 rig. 

Options:

1. i7 3820 + Asus Rampage IV Formula, SLi in the future, possibly IB-E.

2. 2500K or 3570K + Asus Maximus V Formula, SLi in the future, no CPU update possible above 3770K.

The PC is going to be used for pretty much everything, gaming obviously included. What we want is best possible performance and as future proof as possible with limited budget (upgrades over long period of time possible). 

3820 seems to roughly equal or beat 2600K in average even when both are overclocked, and seeing 3570K OC terribly bad with air it seems like the best alternative right now with option to get IB-E later should we require more CPU performance. 

Thoughts and suggestions? Nothing is decided atm and input is more than welcome. Both options are within <150€ margin of each other which is insignificant in the long run. Either option would be overclocked to the air cooling limits.


----------



## Fourstaff (Apr 16, 2012)

Everything = ?

Do you need serious CPU power? Yes => 2011, Gaming is the most demanding =>1155


----------



## GC_PaNzerFIN (Apr 16, 2012)

Fourstaff said:


> Everything = ?
> 
> Do you need serious CPU power? Yes => 2011, Gaming is the most demanding =>1155



Yes, especially my friend could use serious CPU power. I mostly game but do run some heavy EDA tools daily. 

I haven't completely ruled out possibility of keeping the 2500k+gene-z if GTX 690 ends up being very good card in every way. But friend is going to slap GTX 580s with AC Xtreme in there as well so X79 would be his preferred choice then.


----------



## Feänor (Apr 16, 2012)

Unless you have an application to use the hyper-threading (read video editing or transcoding, F@H or WCG, and other "workstation" task), you should buy the 2500k (or 2550K). Remember that not everyone is able to pay 200$ more to have some work done 20% faster. From what i read in your post, it seems it is not your case.

It is as good as cpu two-three times more expensive gaming wise, so going for anything more (the 2600k and the whole lga 2011 series) is just wasting money.

The money you'll save downgrading from your choices to the 2500k (at least 100$ in the 2600k case, and more than 200$ for SB-E) will be better spent in the gpu or a bigger SSD. You'll "feel" those two parts way more when gaming than anything else.

And if money is no object, then just buy what you want!


----------



## willdearborn (Apr 16, 2012)

The biggest reason to go with X79 over Z77 is PCI-E and memory bandwidth. Do you envision yourself using more than 2 PCI-E devices? If so, you might want to look at X79, because of the PCI-E lanes. Z77 (and P67 + Z68 for that matter) are going to be limited to 16 lanes in total. Meaning if you plan on going SLI then that means 8x to each video card with no available bandwidth for anything else if you go with Z77. If you are going to want more than 2 video cards, or have other bandwidth intensive devices (RAID cards etc..) then X79 is what you are going to most likely want.

The only other difference is that X79 supports quad channel memory, and Z77 is dual. You will not notice the difference in gaming or everyday tasks. It's really all about the PCI-E lanes.

If it were me I would go with the X79 platform. But that's because I try not to limit my options for future upgrades, and 3 way SLI plus a sound card isn't out of the question for me. If you are never going to get more than 2 cards in SLI, then Z77 is all you need. Technically you can do 3 way SLI on 1155 boards, but like I said PCI-E bandwidth is limited to 16 lanes *in total*

EDIT: I re-read your post and realized you are considering the 3820 or 3750k. Taking that into account, it's hard to recommend X79+3820 over a Z77+3750k simply because of overclockabilty. If you are never going to go 3 way SLI, then Z77 and a 3750k is the clear choice. The highest multipler you can set the 3820 to is 43. So you are limited in that way with 3820. If you were going to go with X79 then 3930k is what you'd want, but it's a lot more money for 2 core you aren't going to use.


----------



## GC_PaNzerFIN (Apr 17, 2012)

Very good points. 

PCI-E lanes could be a real problem with Z77. I need to populate the third X16 slot as well so that is going to result in the following PCI-E configuration: 8x/4x/4x which sounds awful for SLi not to talk about not being able to use the rest of the slots (x1 slots) in that configuration or the third slot drops to x1 as well! 

Definately sounds like a huge drawback to me and that alone would swing my mind towards the X79 which makes no compromises anywhere and has longer upgrade path (IB-E). 

I have read quite a few 3820 reviews and the usual overclocks are roughly 4.7GHz on air, sounds good enough for me and my friend till the IB-E. We are definately going to grab those when they arrive if they are any good, K SKUs of course. The 3820 would only be temporary solution. 

So X79 it is?


----------



## willdearborn (Apr 17, 2012)

GC_PaNzerFIN said:


> Very good points.
> 
> PCI-E lanes could be a real problem with Z77. I need to populate the third X16 slot as well so that is going to result in the following PCI-E configuration: 8x/4x/4x which sounds awful for SLi not to talk about not being able to use the rest of the slots (x1 slots) in that configuration or the third slot drops to x1 as well!
> 
> ...



Sounds like X79 is the right choice. That's the way I went as well and I am enjoying my Rampage IV Extreme very much.


----------



## xenocide (Apr 17, 2012)

What do you mean you need to populate that 3rd PCI-exp slot?  You said you were looking at a GTX690, which is a single slot card, meaning you could easily fit it on a Z77 Motherboard which has a single available 16x PCI-Express 3.0 slot.  It's also worth mentioning that PCI-Express 3.0 has twice the bandiwdth per rating as PCI-exp 2.0/1, in other words, PCI-exp 3.0 @ 8x = PCI-exp 2.0 @ 16x in terms of bandwidth.  I think a single PCI-exp 3.0 16x slot and a GTX690 is plenty for most applications (that aren't using GPGPU).


----------



## MQ1hunter (Apr 17, 2012)

Well i am pushing for 3930 in my new rig... i know how much my amd rig is cpu bound, multi player on bf3.  Turning off hyper threading ... pair if 680s with 4gb vram...


----------



## GC_PaNzerFIN (Apr 17, 2012)

GTX 690 would have been option only if I kept my Gene board. I really would prefer 2 cards over one hot and loud. 

Both of us are set to grab the i7 3820 + Asus Rampage IV Formula combo, it just makes most sense to us no matter how we look at it as we definately want to keep the door open for 6-8 core IB-E.


----------



## lilhasselhoffer (Apr 17, 2012)

GC_PaNzerFIN said:


> GTX 690 would have been option only if I kept my Gene board. I really would prefer 2 cards over one hot and loud.
> 
> Both of us are set to grab the i7 3820 + Asus Rampage IV Formula combo, it just makes most sense to us no matter how we look at it as we definately want to keep the door open for 6-8 core IB-E.



I'm trying to understand, but I think you are being optimistic.

IB-E initial reports suggest a hotter running processor, even though it will consume less power.  The fact that there is 90 nm between transistors (22nm fabrication) would seem to suggest that Intel is coping with the extra heat by spreading thing out...  

My point is that SB-E is thermally limited (there are 8 cores, with two lasered off).  IB-E being hotter means that there is good reason that some reports suggest IB-E is having its release pushed back into 2013 or even 2014.  Hoping for 8 cores may be a bit difficult considering this.  Here's to hoping I am wrong....


Another key point is that IB has pci-e 3.0.  As the data rate is double that of pci-e 2.0, and the protocol uses less overhead, graphics cards using two x8 pci-e 3.0 lanes have as much data bandwidth as two x16 pci-e 2.0 lanes.  This, of course, leaves little other bandwidth on the Z77 chipset for other expansion slots.  SB-E has 40 lanes, so two x16 pci-e 3.0 lanes populated still leaves 8 remaining lanes (usually onboard chips will use some of these 8 lanes; think USB 3.0 and SATA port expansions).


So yes, a 3820 and a good board are what I'd spend my money on.  In a year you can pickup a 3930k when IB-E is released.  If you want "future proof" then go with socket 2011.  There is no such thing, but socket 2011 has the largest list of features.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 17, 2012)

Also by Definition Skt 2011 is the High End Platform and 1155 is the mainstream, 1155 is due to be replaced very soon though. If you are wanting to go IVB get 2011, otherwise SB on both platforms perform the same but you wont be lacking on 2011 in capabilities, if im not mistaken you can also get faster Xeon Class CPUs for 2011 that run a lower TDP


----------



## GC_PaNzerFIN (Apr 17, 2012)

Yeah you could be right about IB-E. We'll see what they come up with and 3930K is good enough if IB-E goes bad. Anything can happen with the 22nm process in a year. Either way that is something LGA1155 can't compete with. No matter how it goes, I can still use the best available CPU.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 18, 2012)

Take for Example my Brothers Machine

It has:

AsRock 970 Extreme 4

AMD Phenom 2 X2 555 BE unlocked to X4 B55/955 BE using stock cooling (555 BE and 955 BE are 3.2GHz Parts)

GSkill 1600MHz DDR3 8-8-8-24@ 1.5V

Sapphire Radeon 6770 1 GB (Partial OC Model)

650 Watt Antec Greenwatts (8x2 PCI-E Power connectors)

500 GB Seagate 7200.12 SATA 6Gb/s drive

2 DVD RW Drives

Thermaltake V9 case (USB 3.0 Passthrough Cable, Sata Hotswap bays on top)

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit OEM (Fuck Retail Boxes)

I built this machine in preparation of Bulldozer-

Since that was more of a side grade Ill be upgrading the CPU to the last Fastest AM3+ part and Max the Ram and Put the Fastest video card in that can be driven by everything else. Im just saying AM3/AM3+ has more expansion than 1156.1155, 1150 ever will. Hell 1366 has more expansion than 1156/1155/1150 if Intel stuck with it instead of doing 2011


----------



## xenocide (Apr 18, 2012)

eidairaman1 said:


> Since that was more of a side grade Ill be upgrading the CPU to the last Fastest AM3+ part and Max the Ram and Put the Fastest video card in that can be driven by everything else. Im just saying AM3/AM3+ has more expansion than 1156.1155, 1150 ever will. Hell 1366 has more expansion than 1156/1155/1150 if Intel stuck with it instead of doing 2011



The trade off for having more expansion and upgrade paths is that the performance just isn't on par for the Intel offerings.  Nobody can deny that something like an i5-2500k or i7-2600k is a great product, and buying one pretty much ensures a quality experience for several years.  The alternative is doing what you did, paying the same amount, just over a longer stretch of time.  

With AMD setups you can get a motherboard, low-end CPU, 1 set of RAM, and a decent video card for, say $500, then more RAM and a better CPU further down the line for an additional $200-300.  With Intel, you are basically required to buy a mobo, solid cpu, RAM, and the same decent video card all at once, for a total price of about $700-800.  So you're paying the same amount, for similar or better performance, it's just a larger initial investment.  Generally (from my experience) Intel setups last a little longer (in terms of performance) before requiring an inevitable overhaul than AMD setups, the trade off is that they are more expensive up front.

The reason Intel moved their Enthusiast line from Socket 1366 to Socket 2011 was for more available resources, it may not have been necessary, but it definitely gave them more room to play with, meaning IB-E could be crazy if they maximized the potential of the platform.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Apr 18, 2012)

In the Situation my bro was in, He was coming off a P4 2.4 533 FSB model with a shitty Asus Motherboard. I developed a build sheet and he has been happy since. He doesnt overclock despite that board being as capable as Asus, Gigabyte, MSI. I took a chance with the 555 unlocking and it worked properly as all cores are fully operational with the full level of cache. It boots in less than a minute, shuts down the same and is fast despite using a HD as its drive of choice



xenocide said:


> The trade off for having more expansion and upgrade paths is that the performance just isn't on par for the Intel offerings.  Nobody can deny that something like an i5-2500k or i7-2600k is a great product, and buying one pretty much ensures a quality experience for several years.  The alternative is doing what you did, paying the same amount, just over a longer stretch of time.
> 
> With AMD setups you can get a motherboard, low-end CPU, 1 set of RAM, and a decent video card for, say $500, then more RAM and a better CPU further down the line for an additional $200-300.  With Intel, you are basically required to buy a mobo, solid cpu, RAM, and the same decent video card all at once, for a total price of about $700-800.  So you're paying the same amount, for similar or better performance, it's just a larger initial investment.  Generally (from my experience) Intel setups last a little longer (in terms of performance) before requiring an inevitable overhaul than AMD setups, the trade off is that they are more expensive up front.
> 
> The reason Intel moved their Enthusiast line from Socket 1366 to Socket 2011 was for more available resources, it may not have been necessary, but it definitely gave them more room to play with, meaning IB-E could be crazy if they maximized the potential of the platform.



But as your saying me personally would select AM3+ or 2011 for the capabilities


----------



## GC_PaNzerFIN (Apr 18, 2012)

Law-II said:


> Hi
> 
> You may wish to look at this *ASUS P8Z77 WS, Z77*
> 
> ...



Yet another bridge chip marketing crap. CPU still has 16x lanes although you get wider bus *up to the bridge chip*. Then you add latencies and magically the wider bus fits in the narrow 16x again. Result is slower than without bridge chip, do not want.


----------



## Cotton_Cup (Apr 19, 2012)

i7 3930k/3960x (if you got the bread) is awesome ^_^ but well just gaming with little rendering and stuff i7 2600k or just gaming i5 2500k


----------



## GC_PaNzerFIN (Apr 19, 2012)

Cotton_Cup said:


> i7 3930k/3960x (if you got the bread) is awesome ^_^ but well just gaming with little rendering and stuff i7 2600k or just gaming i5 2500k



If I wait half a month before getting the stuff I can afford 3930K instead of the 3820. I guess I'll do that, now that we started upgrading lets do it all the way.


----------



## Cotton_Cup (Apr 19, 2012)

I have a 3930k setup and it was thanks here at tpu from peopels suggestion and with the great review about the ram after waiting a while.

btw at least with lga2011 you can upgrade to ivy bridge -E= which should be faster too ^_^ in the next 3 years or something


----------

