# This is a thing. Liquid cooling, without any chance of mess..



## lexluthermiester (Dec 16, 2019)

Linus over at LTT demo'd a new take on vapor-chamber/heatpipe cooling;








Question is, what do you all think?

I think it might just be the future of high-end cooling. This video showed impressive potential of the tech.


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## Hyderz (Dec 16, 2019)

its pretty cool tech and impressive , but its a bit chunky and the way its positioned currently messes up the airflow inside the case.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 16, 2019)

Hyderz said:


> but its a bit chunky and the way its positioned currently messes up the airflow inside the case.


True, but keep in mind the unit in the video is a preproduction prototype. The physical size and dimensions for the retail units will change and likely be less bulky.


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## hat (Dec 16, 2019)

I'm... not so impressed given the size of that thing.


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## phanbuey (Dec 16, 2019)

At the end of the day whether we are displacing the surface area with water or a more efficient transport, you will still need the surface area; even if it's a bit less / less bulky. 

Very impressive for sure, but I think water's flexibility of where to put that surface area (such as an intake at the bottom of the case etc.) and the fact that this has to sit on the socket like that is going to be it's Achille's heel.

Who knows though, they might put some blingy RGB on there and it becomes the next great thing.


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## hat (Dec 16, 2019)

Yeah, that's gonna be a lot of weight hanging on the board for sure.


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## HUSKIE (Dec 16, 2019)

It's horrible just like a building inside your case. I still prefer custom watercooling.


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## silentbogo (Dec 16, 2019)

A little correction: it's not liquid cooling, it's basically a looped heatpipe.
Was watching that last night. The idea is very interesting, results are even more interesting, but I'm not sure that kind of weight and size is healthy for the socket and PCB itself. Maybe in horizontal orientation, but I would'n risk using that thing vertically long-term.
What's cool, is that the price is actually not too bad for such exotic cooling solution. It's even cheaper than TEC coolers, and has nearly double heat dispersion capacity.


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## dj-electric (Dec 16, 2019)

Not impressed at all.
Not by size, not by performance, not by both with ultra-high RPM delta fans screaming in the background.

I would like to see such concept operating with 1 fan on decent RPM with half the size and half the thickness compered to similarly sized existing air coolers.
Then we can talk.


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## biffzinker (Dec 16, 2019)

Impressive for being all aluminum prototype, and as Linus suggested a bit of copper could knock temperatures back another 5-10°C. The final product is set to be smaller without compromising the coolers performance. Linus also said this type of cooler could run passive on a lower watt CPU.


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## phanbuey (Dec 16, 2019)

biffzinker said:


> Impressive for being all aluminum prototype, and as Linus suggested a bit of copper could knock temperatures back another 5-10°C. The final product is set to be smaller without compromising the coolers performance. Linus also said this type of cooler could run passive on a lower watt CPU.



The weight might be an issue there...


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## Vayra86 (Dec 16, 2019)

Well... lots of IFS but about weight and bulkiness... let's not forget we also mount NH-D15S to the CPU and its easily as big, chunky and the only difference is the airflow obstruction. This you would solve easily by going for a bottom > top flow case setup though, seeing as the IceGiant also is bottom>top.

In todays age of very hot CPUs I think this could be a pretty decent product. Yes, it can do with some more sexy. But the concept is nice. I like it most because its not a complex and prone to maintenance solution like WC.


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## phanbuey (Dec 16, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> Well... lots of IFS but about weight and bulkiness... let's not forget we also mount NH-D15S to the CPU and its easily as big, chunky and the only difference is the airflow obstruction. This you would solve easily by going for a bottom > top flow case setup though, seeing as the IceGiant also is bottom>top.
> 
> In todays age of very hot CPUs I think this could be a pretty decent product. Yes, it can do with some more sexy. But the concept is nice. I like it most because its not a complex and prone to maintenance solution like WC.



It honestly looks like an evolution of the heatpipe.  I can't see why this couldnt be implemented into the noctua pipe/fin design.

Im sure we will be seeing this heatpipe tech but not this particular cooler.









						Cooler Master Shows Concept Coolers: Closed-Loop Heat Pipe and Flying Saucer
					






					www.anandtech.com
				




^ there is the cooler master prototype.


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## xtreemchaos (Dec 16, 2019)

na not for me, I like loads of messy pipes around my rig and like living on the edge at my age I like the excitement. interested at seeing the finished product tho.


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## Lorec (Dec 16, 2019)

its quite cool (no pun intended) looking forward to finished product


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## kapone32 (Dec 16, 2019)

Did not Deepcool make a claim to no mess with their new Captain series AIOs that come with a bleed valve? I also could have sworn I saw something akin to this with my Sapphire 7950 Vapor-X and I am sure there was a Cooler Master Air cooler that had this concept as well. I might be mistaken though.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 16, 2019)

Its as good as a low end AIO water cooler and he claims water cooling is dead with click bait video title.
Temps within 2c margin of error.
How does this kid in the video think liquid cooling is dead? 
Click bait garbage cooler. Not even slightly impressive.


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## EarthDog (Dec 16, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Its as good as a low end AIO water cooler and he claims water cooling is dead with click bait video title.
> Temps within 2c margin of error.
> How does this kid in the video think liquid cooling is dead?
> Click bait garbage cooler. Not even slightly impressive.


Shrimp, meet Linus... Linus... Shrimp.

LTT is garbage. Videos for the unadorned masses (fitting for here I suppose!). 





EDIT: I find this to be more 'the future of high-end cooling' than what is in the OP - https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...mmetrischen-aufbau-fuer-bessere-kuehlung.html


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 16, 2019)

People seem to glaze over the fact that this product is currently a *prototype.* It is *subject to change* as they refine and tweak the product.

Do you moaners go into early access alpha or beta games and bitch about how the game is buggy and broken as hell it is despite it not being a final release??


Its a proof of concept that it can work. The real work on refining the design starts now.


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## EarthDog (Dec 16, 2019)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Do you moaners go into early access alpha or beta games and bitch about how the game is buggy and broken as hell it is despite it not being a final release??


LOL, yes... you aren't new here... lolololol.


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 16, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> LOL, yes... you aren't new here... lolololol.



FO76  doesnt count.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 16, 2019)

Lol like vapor cooler is new....

Oh anything with heat pipes = vapor cooler. 

Prototype with numbers. That means its in working order and close to finished product.

And not complaining, just telling the truth.


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 16, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Lol like vapor cooler is new....
> 
> Oh anything with heat pipes = vapor cooler.
> 
> ...



So by your train of thought, companies arent allowed to test their prototypes?

as for your vapor cooler argument you have a point but its not as simple or straightforward as traditional/current coolers with heatpipes as these heatpipes complete a full loop.


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## mouacyk (Dec 16, 2019)

There is a reason why serious water cooling enthusiasts exhaust heat from radiators outside the system case.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 16, 2019)

Better make support brackets for it.

Better on a desktop pc, not a tower


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## moproblems99 (Dec 16, 2019)

mouacyk said:


> There is a reason why serious water cooling enthusiasts exhaust heat from radiators outside the system case.



That doesn't necessarily matter if you are completely blocked as the the internal case temperature isn't as important as if you still had a bunch of air coolers in there.  That said, my rads are exhaust.


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## FreedomEclipse (Dec 16, 2019)

mouacyk said:


> There is a reason why serious water cooling enthusiasts exhaust heat from radiators outside the system case.



this thinking is a little outdated. So long as you positive airflow - i.e more fans pulling air into the case than pushing out. It takes very little effort to move heat from inside the case so long as there is good airflow.

Some people mount their radiator at the front of the case so air passes through the radiator before it gets inside the case. So long as the ambient air is cooler it shouldnt be a real problem.


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## Vario (Dec 16, 2019)

Looks like a good way to bend your motherboard.


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## xtreemchaos (Dec 16, 2019)

its the biggest cooler ive ever seen apart from them funny copper passive thingyes, agreed it would need some sort of support in a tower or warping on the m/b could be on the cards.


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## HTC (Dec 16, 2019)

How long you dudes figure until they release a GPU version?


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## Mats (Dec 16, 2019)

The comments here gives me more questions than the actual product.

Not impressed? It beats a 360 AIO that's obviously larger, what do you expect for $120? Why comparing to custom water at that price?

Bend the board? In that case you shouldn't be using a Noctua D15 either, it's larger and have larger fans, and yes, worse performance.

Did you watch the video? It's a prototype, and you can see the next version pictured. Overall it's smaller than many dual tower coolers.


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## EarthDog (Dec 16, 2019)

Mats said:


> Noctua D15 either, it's larger and have larger fans, and yes, worse performance.


Size doesn't matter much here... which one weighs more? 

This looks to be larger than most dual stack air coolers... at least when talking width.


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## Mats (Dec 16, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Size doesn't matter much here... which one weighs more?


AND height. You know, torque.


EarthDog said:


> This looks to be larger than most dual stack air coolers... at least when talking width.


Dunno about that. The cooling volume(?) is 30 x 120 x 240. The D15 is not smaller than that. Width won't affect the torque.


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## E-curbi (Dec 16, 2019)

Still waiting for this Noctua prototype to launch, and knowing Noctua's track record with prototypes, I might be using a walker and/or wearing fat clunky NewBalance stability shoes before that happens. 

Still, will be so awesome to mount this fanless 1.5kg cooler *on a horizontal mobo*, adding a 140mm industrial fan - tuned way down into the range of inaudibility (700rpms).

Even moving a small volume of air might double it's heat dissipation.


It's size also appears a bit more manageable than the Thermosiphon. lol


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## Mats (Dec 16, 2019)

[QUOTE="E-curbi, post: 4172192, member: 179827"
It's size also appears a bit more manageable than the Thermosiphon. lol
[/QUOTE]
That Noctua is larger, for sure (not counting the prototype in the OP).
Also, the Noctua won't beat a 360 rad. It might be able to run >100 W CPU's without a fan, but that doesn't mean you can scale it above 350 W just by adding fans.
You simply need all that mass and widely spaced fins to be able to cool a hot running CPU without a fan.


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## EarthDog (Dec 16, 2019)

Mats said:


> AND height. You know, torque.
> 
> Dunno about that. The cooling volume(?) is 30 x 120 x 240. The D15 is not smaller than that. Width won't affect the torque.


Height.. indeed. They both appear to stick out from the motherboard about the same distance.. with this 'thing' seemingly heavier, I would worry more about it than a D15.

D15 is notably smaller, no? D15 = 165 x 150 x 160(mm W x H x D). This thing is at least 240mm wide x 165mm tall x 140mm+ depth. So, it is larger on the width measurement and likely similar in height. Did you see the video? YOu can see just how much larger that one is compared to the D15 quite easily and walk away with the concept that what was used is clearly larger.


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## mouacyk (Dec 16, 2019)

FreedomEclipse said:


> this thinking is a little outdated. So long as you positive airflow - i.e more fans pulling air into the case than pushing out. It takes very little effort to move heat from inside the case so long as there is good airflow.
> 
> Some people mount their radiator at the front of the case so air passes through the radiator before it gets inside the case. So long as the ambient air is cooler it shouldnt be a real problem.


If power delivery was trending downward, it would be outdated.  With core-count and clocks rising (as they should), power delivery is continuing to increase, putting ever more stress on the VRMs. These never get the cooling attention they need.  Nowadays, even RAM (B-die) is also sensitive to ambient temperatures and start flipping bits above 45C.

This thing really just needs support brackets to tether it to the case to distribute the tension from the motherboard socket.  It will be interesting to see how far they can go in miniaturizing this thing for future revisions.


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## E-curbi (Dec 16, 2019)

Mats said:


> [QUOTE="E-curbi, post: 4172192, member: 179827"
> It's size also appears a bit more manageable than the Thermosiphon. lol


That Noctua is larger, for sure (not counting the prototype in the OP).
Also, the Noctua won't beat a 360 rad. It might be able to run >100 W CPU's without a fan, but that doesn't mean you can scale it above 350 W just by adding fans.
You simply need all that mass and widely spaced fins to be able to cool a hot running CPU without a fan.
[/QUOTE]

not certain why the quotes above gots all messed up. lol



Running an open air test bench so *might be able to mount the Thermosiphon without issue*, although unlike most test benches mine has a rear panel to contend with, so who knows.

Either cooler would not be adding any additional downward vector forces *since my mobo lays flat aligned in harmony with the planet's horizon.* lol - always wanted to say that.


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## Mats (Dec 16, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Height.. indeed. They both appear to stick out from the motherboard about the same distance.. with this 'thing' seemingly heavier, I would worry more about it than a D15.
> 
> D15 is notably smaller, no? D15 = 165 x 150 x 160(mm W x H x D). This thing is at least 240mm wide x 165mm tall x 140mm+ depth. So, it is larger on the width measurement and likely similar in height. Did you see the video? YOu can see just how much larger that one is compared to the D15 quite easily and walk away with the concept that what was used is clearly larger.


That's a *PROTOTYPE* LOL. You can't buy that one.

See the pic in my previous post. Linus says the tower of the upcoming version is 30 mm deep, and you can clearly see that the cooling tower is about the same height as a 120 mm fan, and just a wee bit wider than 2 x 120 mm fans.

Having twin towers side by side (Icegiant), or in line (Noctua) makes just about no difference in terms of torque.


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## EarthDog (Dec 16, 2019)

Mats said:


> Having twin towers side by side (Icegiant), or in line (Noctua) makes just about no difference in terms of torque.


Right. But I mentioned weight. I could give 2 poos about the slight height difference (aware that the further away it is from the mount point the more pressure... but if it weighs a lot more.......). Again, until we know what it weighs, we'll go in circles. Either way, that thing is HUUUUUUUUUUGE.


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## moproblems99 (Dec 16, 2019)

You guys are clearly forgetting that it's wide, flat wingspan will have enough surface area to have a neutral y-axis force with a properly configured front-bottom to top-rear air flow.

In fact, it has such huge surface area that it may actually function like a sail and require tethering from the bottom of the case in order to prevent it from taking off inside the case and damaging whatever is above it.


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## Kissamies (Dec 16, 2019)

Nah, I've seen so many times when a new innovative cooling product comes, it's usually just a concept and it doesn't have any significant benefits. I'll stick with custom loop, though only for CPU for now.


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## Mats (Dec 16, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> Either way, that thing is HUUUUUUUUUUGE.


Well, we know it uses 120 mm fans so the width is maybe 244 mm wide, and we know the depth will be reduced from 103 to 30 mm. That's not huge to me.

I mean, put the two Noctua towers next to each other and you'll have a width of 300 mm.. that wouldn't affect its weight, obviously.



Chloe Price said:


> it's usually just a concept and it doesn't have any significant benefits.


Usually.

The benefits are known. A cooler with the size of a 240 AIO, with the performance of a 360 AIO, yet no moving parts except for the fans.

This is obviously not an alternative to custom water, nobody said so.


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## Splinterdog (Dec 16, 2019)

The title, saying that water cooling is dead is, as others have said, simply clickbait.
The principle is interesting, but for its ridiculous size. I'll watch again when they've reduced the size down to a third and then see how effective it is.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 16, 2019)

Splinterdog said:


> The title, saying that water cooling is dead is, as others have said, simply clickbait.
> The principle is interesting, but for its ridiculous size. I'll watch again when they've reduced the size down to a third and then see how effective it is.


If it where copper.... It would be half the size and do a better job absorbing heat. Then you wouldnt need it that large.
Aluminum cold plate. Garbage.
2.00 worth of aluminim. Charges 110$.
Cant wait to see people getting ripped off. Good stuff.


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## EarthDog (Dec 16, 2019)

Mats said:


> Well, we know it uses 120 mm fans so the width is maybe 244 mm wide, and we know the depth will be reduced from 103 to 30 mm. That's not huge to me.
> 
> I mean, put the two Noctua towers next to each other and you'll have a width of 300 mm.. that wouldn't affect its weight, obviously.


A 240mm+ wide air heatsink isn't huge to you? Ok.

And not sure where the disconnect is coming (ESL?), but, you can't move Noctua towers and make them wider. The dimensions are what they are man... I mean, I can say to unfold the fin array inside this device and say it is larger... are you kidding me???? Listen, I am saying is that it is huge (it is), and likely pretty heavy. Come on now............


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## xtreemchaos (Dec 16, 2019)

call me daft but when thay reduce it in size wont it likely reduce the cooling too? so it could be $110 for less of a products usefulness.


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## Kissamies (Dec 16, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> A 240mm+ wide air heatsink isn't huge to you? Ok.
> 
> And not sure where the disconnect is coming, but, you can't move Noctua towers and make them wider. For pete's sake, all I am saying is that it is huge (it is), and likely pretty heavy. Come on now.............


Exactly.  That thing is colossal when comparing to an AIO with 240x30 rad.


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## EarthDog (Dec 16, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> Exactly.  That thing is colossal when comparing to an AIO with 240x30 rad.


Its similar when comparing it to that, the new smaller model. The difference is, that weight isn't attached to the socket area of a PCB, but mounted to the steel chassis of a case. 

For all I know, it could be lighter than the 980g the D15 is and not matter.....


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## Mats (Dec 16, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> A 240mm+ wide air heatsink isn't huge to you? Ok.


You have to think a bit outside the box here.  The fact that it's a air cooled heatsink doesn't matter *IF* the perfrormace is as good as they say.


EarthDog said:


> And not sure where the disconnect is coming (ESL?), but, you can't move Noctua towers and make them wider. The dimensions are what they are man... I mean, I can say to unfold the fin array inside this device and say it is larger... are you kidding me???? Listen, I am saying is that it is huge (it is), and likely pretty heavy. Come on now............



I meant in theory. Imagine a Noctua twin tower with the two towers next to each other, that won't make it heavier, save for the slightly longer heatpipes.
Seen from above:




One is obviously wider, but that doesn't make it heavier, necessarily.


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## Kissamies (Dec 16, 2019)

Mats said:


> I think you're just trolling now, but Linus confirmed that the one that will be available for purchase is actually 240 x 30.


Nope. What I meant, was that an AIO (or custom loop's rad) doesn't take space like an air cooler would, since the rad is mounted to the chassis, from out of the way.


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## eidairaman1 (Dec 16, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> If it where copper.... It would be half the size and do a better job absorbing heat. Then you wouldnt need it that large.
> Aluminum cold plate. Garbage.
> 2.00 worth of aluminim. Charges 110$.
> Cant wait to see people getting ripped off. Good stuff.



Copper block, copper rad please


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## moproblems99 (Dec 16, 2019)

Mats said:


> The benefits are known. A cooler with the size of a 240 AIO, with the performance of a 360 AIO, yet no moving parts except for the fans.



This has as much chance of out doing a 360mm aio at 240mm as I do of winning the lottery.  Ounce for ounce, the water will be better.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 16, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> LTT is garbage.


I disagree. LTT is very useful and does a lot of work that answers questions and helps even seasoned tech veterans like myself learn new things.


EarthDog said:


> Videos for the unadorned masses (fitting for here I suppose!).


Now you're just being condescending and insulting to a great many people. Please stop.


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## Assimilator (Dec 16, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> If it where copper.... It would be half the size and do a better job absorbing heat. Then you wouldnt need it that large.
> Aluminum cold plate. Garbage.
> 2.00 worth of aluminim. Charges 110$.
> Cant wait to see people getting ripped off. Good stuff.



And if were copper, it would be even heavier... *shudder*


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 16, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> Nope. What I meant, was that an AIO (or custom loop's rad) doesn't take space like an air cooler would, since the rad is mounted to the chassis, from out of the way.


While that is a good point, this new take on cooling requires no maintainance, and like vapor chambers and heatpipes will last longer than the PC component it's mounted to. This is one of the key points. The final product will be more refined and retail ready.


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## EarthDog (Dec 16, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> I disagree. LTT is very useful and does a lot of work that answers questions and helps even seasoned tech veterans like myself learn new things.
> 
> Now you're just being condescending and insulting to a great many people. Please stop.


Disagree all you want. You're entitled to an opinion.

To he fair, it isnt just tpu. Any large a active forum has a presence of unadorned users. It is those who sign up to ask questions who do not know the answers (and some who try to answer and fail). Some forums have more than others, this being one of them. Like linus, tpu is a good place to get the basics and your fair share of clickbait. Good for the unadorned. Dont take it personally or be sensitive about it.


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## Kissamies (Dec 16, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> While that is a good point, this new take on cooling requires no maintainance, and like vapor chambers and heatpipes will last longer than the PC component it's mounted to. This is one of the key points. The final product will be more refined and retail ready.


Yeah, air cooling's best thing is that it requires no maintenance except cleaning the most dust from time to time.

AIOs are kinda meh and custom loop are still for us enthusiasts


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 16, 2019)

Assimilator said:


> And if were copper, it would be even heavier... *shudder*



It's not that it's heavy, it's the distance the weight resides from the motherboard mount. 
And with copper, it would be much smaller and look like any old tower cooler with pipes that loop instead of being cut off.


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## Mats (Dec 17, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> This has as much chance of out doing a 360mm aio at 240mm as I do of winning the lottery.  Ounce for ounce, the water will be better.


You: "I will question you by claiming the opposite, without any proof." 

Also, this constant comparing to custom water is weird.

Imagine the GTX 1650 being launched and people would go "NO WAI, I'll keep my 2080 TI"


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## moproblems99 (Dec 17, 2019)

Mats said:


> You: "I will question you by claiming the opposite, without any proof."
> 
> Also, this constant comparing to custom water is weird.
> 
> Imagine the GTX 1650 being launched and people would go "NO WAI, I'll keep my 2080 TI"



Yes, because I can easily acquire one to gather my proof.  Also, I said nothing of customer water did I?

EDIT: I'd also get more useful information out of the local junior high science news letter than LTT so I don't think there is proof for either side.



Chloe Price said:


> Yeah, air cooling's best thing is that it requires no maintenance except cleaning the most dust from time to time.



I don't have any maintenance on my loop except every 1 to 2 years when I change the water and clean the block.  Hell, many people upgrade their systems more often than that.


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## delshay (Dec 17, 2019)

mouacyk said:


> Nowadays, even RAM (B-die) is also sensitive to ambient temperatures and start flipping bits above 45C.



Now that's interesting. Memory modules are tested in a chamber & must past a specific temperature, normally around 65c. You should not be flipping bits @45c. If you are, then you have a faulty memory module, probably cause by pushing too much voltage though them.


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## Mats (Dec 17, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Yes, because I can easily acquire one to gather my proof.


Well, even if I could get one, I can't predict the result before I've tested it. You can do that I guess.


moproblems99 said:


> Also, I said nothing of customer water did I?


I think you know the answer to that.

I can't make a new separate comment without it getting merged with the last one, if I was the one who made that last comment. It had nothing to do with you.


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## kapone32 (Dec 17, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> Yeah, air cooling's best thing is that it requires no maintenance except cleaning the most dust from time to time.
> 
> AIOs are kinda meh and custom loop are still for us enthusiasts



AIOs can get super dusty too especially if you are running a push/pull.


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## EarthDog (Dec 17, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> AIOs can get super dusty too especially if you are running a push/pull.


...and that is their (AIOs) only maintenance as well. You literally cant do any more to them than air as most are sealed units, implied by the name. When it borks, its RMA or garbage time.


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## kapone32 (Dec 17, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> ...and that is their (AIOs) only maintenance as well. You literally cant do any more to them than air as most are sealed units, implied by the name. When it borks, its RMA or garbage time.



That is why I like the Alphacool Eisbaer AIOs. They are more like a custom loop than an AIO.


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## EarthDog (Dec 17, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> That is why I like the Alphacool Eisbaer AIOs. They are more like a custom loop than an AIO.


MEH, go fully custom or go home is my motto.


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## kapone32 (Dec 17, 2019)

On that note this is what I am looking at (in my cart saved for later) right now 






						Bykski CPU Liquid Cooler CPU Waterblocks Watercooling Block CPU Water Liquid Cooling Block for PC Intel 115X X99 X299 AMD AM4 AM3+ AM3 AM2+ AM2 RYZER 5V RGB LED (for AMD, Silver) : Amazon.ca: Electronics
					

Bykski CPU Liquid Cooler CPU Waterblocks Watercooling Block CPU Water Liquid Cooling Block for PC Intel 115X X99 X299 AMD AM4 AM3+ AM3 AM2+ AM2 RYZER 5V RGB LED (for AMD, Silver) : Amazon.ca: Electronics



					www.amazon.ca
				









						Alphacool 13297 Eisstation DC-Ultra incl. Alphacool DC-LT 2600 Ultra Pump Water Cooling Reservoirs : Amazon.ca: Industrial & Scientific
					

Alphacool 13297 Eisstation DC-Ultra incl. Alphacool DC-LT 2600 Ultra Pump Water Cooling Reservoirs : Amazon.ca: Industrial & Scientific



					www.amazon.ca


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## Zach_01 (Dec 17, 2019)

Come on guys...
As already said by others, this is a prototype, it is going to reduce in size, and replace the ALU with copper.
Its the actual mechanism of cooling that has been demonstrated here and not the final product.

Complaining or moaning so much about size/weight is totally unecessary at this point as these factors are going to change...
The cooling factor could also change after size/weight/materials change... we will (just) see, if ever made to market tho.

Dont be so much of contoversialists/conscientious objectors to anything new or wierd at first glance... Dismissing completely a new idea so easily without even having a final product at hand or reviews. Tech people should be more open minded, while thinking with scepticism (obviously needed also)
If this turns out to be a successful product (time will tell) at some cases it will render AIOs obsolete. Same/better cooling, less cost, and no moving parts failing that require a whole cooling system change (see AIO pump).

Im not even refering to custom water while this is on totaly another league.
*And yes the title of the video about dead water cooling was misleading and a clicbait... typical LLT *(still I watch some of LLT videos, knowing what could turn out to be)


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## xtreemchaos (Dec 17, 2019)

the whole point of a forum is to debate if everybody just said " great I love it" well it would be pointless or one point depending on how you look at it. well im just saying but im completely mad and I wouldn't hear a word I said   ..


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## Kissamies (Dec 17, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> That is why I like the Alphacool Eisbaer AIOs. They are more like a custom loop than an AIO.


I had one before switching to custom


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## Vayra86 (Dec 17, 2019)

mouacyk said:


> There is a reason why serious water cooling enthusiasts exhaust heat from radiators outside the system case.



Yes because they get anal about every last C, even beyond the point of usefulness.

The other 95% of PC users don't 

Why do you think the AIO is such a popular product, and even gets used over a simple heatsink that costs less and performs just as well? People want no hassle, they want cool stuff, and they want it to work well. An AIO can sometimes get a minimal advantage over air, never mind the fact is slowly falls apart over time. So people buy an AIO. Closed loop may be better in temps, but its worse in every other way: cost, maintenance, prone to failure and hard to install.

People want to say they are watercooling because its 'better'.. just like 32 GB is better than 16, even lacking practical use.

This product seems to marry advantages of AIO and heatsink in a pretty elegant way. No hassle. Good temps. And remember Apple. It doesn't matter you recreate something that already existed. What matters is how you market it, and how easy you make it.


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## Zach_01 (Dec 17, 2019)

xtreemchaos said:


> the whole point of a forum is to debate if everybody just said " great I love it" well it would be pointless or one point depending on how you look at it. well im just saying but im completely mad and I wouldn't hear a word I said   ..


No its not the point of a forum to say everyone "great I love it" but... its not to say "oh, its suck and its not going to work and this is better with X2~3 the cost and blah blah..." either. While its not a final product...

Anyway my thoughts on it are on post #69(kinky...) and i dont wish to do circles...
cheers


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## John Naylor (Dec 17, 2019)

mouacyk said:


> There is a reason why serious water cooling enthusiasts exhaust heat from radiators outside the system case.



No... that's the reason misinformed system builders exhaust air outside their case. 

1st law of water cooling - Don't mix metals
2nd law of water cooling - Rad fans always blow in

Speaking from the perspective of having taught college level fluids and thermodynamics, and have been a consulting  engineer in the field for 40+ years, simple "arithmetic" is all that is needed here.  Let's "Do the math":

Assumed Temps
Ambient Air = 23C
Case Interior Air = 28C
Coolant Temperature = 33C

Cooling Capacity is proportional to Delta T:

Using Ambient Air @ 23C  .... Delta T =  (33- 23) = 10C
Using Interior Case Air @ 28C ....  Delta T =  (28- 23) = 5C

Clearly, with those temps, radiator cooling with ambient air is twice as effective as interior air, you simply can't argue with the math.  .... which is also why engine cooling in emergency generator sets use ambient air for radiator cooling.  Change the numbers to whatever you want, but the interior case air will ALWAYS be hotter than ambient case air.

The argument I get about that is "what about other components" ... well if you are doing custom cooling, your GFX cards are water cooled too.  Three questions:

1.  What component inside your PC  are you concerned about ?  I have yet to see a product manual that warns me about the product being harmed or performance impacted by 28C. Looking at my temperature display

Ambient Air = 22.5 / Interior case Air = 23.9
Rad 1 in = 26.1 / rad 1 out = 26.9
Rad 2 in 24.8 / Rad 2 Out 25.4

Interior Case Air (Stress test) has never topped  + 2.9 - 3.0 over ambient with a Delta T of 8.4C

 You have your CPU and possibly GPU water cooled because a) it would exceed desired thermal limits at your OC or b) to reduce noise.  What other PC components are in this situation ?

2.  If you are concerned about it still, why aren't you using special methods to cool it ?  No MoBo water block ? ... RAM blocks ? ...  SSD Block why not ?  Answer to rhetorical question  ... because if you have the room for a custom loop, nothing is affected by interior case temps.

3.  Why to the people who get paid to design, market and support PC Water cooling components write this in their manuals ?

*"For best cooling performance, we recommend mounting the fans as an air intake to your PC."*

The corollary of this is (since we only have 2 options here) :

*"For worst cooling performance, we recommend mounting the fans as an air exhaust from your PC."*







Here's what we use to evaluate cooling performance:

(3) x 140mm x 45mm Top radiator
(2) x 140mm x 60mm Top radiator
(10) Radiator fans (Up to) 0 - 1250 rpm
(6) case fans (Up to) as above
Twin 35x2 Variable Speed 52 watt Pump / w/ heat sink and fan (0 - 4500 rpm)
(4) Thermal Sensors (in and out of each rad) accurate to 0.1C
(2) Thermal Sensors (ambient and inside case air) accurate to 0.1C
(3) fan PCBs to control each set of rad fans and case fans independently
(6) channel temperature display (0.1C accuracy)
(1) Chauvet Fog Machine
(1) EK CPU Waterblock
(2) EK GPU Water Blocks
(1) MoBo Water Block

Another fail to this logic is that few PC cases provide for enough fan mounts to maintain proper air balance.  Everyone agrees that intakes are generally front and bottom and exhaust is rear ...  why is the rear fan never an intake ?  Because that's where our 250 watt GFX card(s)  and 750 watt PSU exhaust their hot exhaust and you don't want to suck that back in.  Again, *you don't want to suck that back in*.  So  lets look at that:

Assume typical /popular Case Fan Mounts:

Top (2)
Front (2)
Rear (1)

Assumed air inlet restriction from moderately dirty  dust filters = 20%
Fan CFM for all fans = 1.00 EF (equivalent fan)
Fan CFM for intake fans = 1 EF - 20% = 0.80 EF (equivalent fan)

Scenario A - Top fans on AIO as exhausts
Top (2) - Exhaust from AIO = 2 x 1.00 EF = 2.00
Front (2) - Intake thru Air Filters = 2 x 0.80 EF =  1.60 EFF
Rear (1) i Exhaust Fan = 1 x 1.00 EF = 1.00 EF

So we have 1.60 EF coming in and 3.00 EF going out leaving a deficit of 1.4 EF.  Since the case doesn't implode, air must be getting in somewhere ... and where is the path of least resistance ?  ... or where are the largest openings in your case ?  They are the rear grille and vented slot covers ... what do we know about the air in back of the case ? ... the place between case and wall that your exhaust card and PSU push the hot air to ... yes, that's where all the hot exhaust from your 750 watt PSU and 250 watt GFX card(s) is going.

You can test this, as we do, with a very small investment ... pick up a fog machine cheap from Amazon for $35 and point the exhaust at the back of your case with this set up ... the case interior is now full of fog.   Look for the logic here .... "In order to cool our 150 watt 9900K with an AIO,  one has to use air preheated by a 300 watt MSI 2080 Ti and a 750 watt PSU ... that just doesn't make sense.  It's like trying to cool you restaurant seating area with exhaust from your kitchen.

Scenario B - Top fans on AIO as intakes
Top (2) - Intake from AIO = 2 x 1.00 EF = 2.00
Front (2) - Intake thru Air Filters = 2 x 0.80 EF =  1.60 EFF
Rear (1) i Exhaust Fan = 1 x 1.00 EF = 1.00 EF

Here we have 3.60 EF coming in and 1.00 EF going out .... that's 2.6 worth of EF going out thru the rear case grill and vented slot covers.  At that rate, the case is turning air over > twice per second  ... no hot exhaust being recycled.  There is a mindset in PC cooling that there is an actual need to even have both intake and  exhaust fans.   Where does this mindset come from ? ... you travel in a car ... fans blow air into the interior ... how many exhaust fans ya got ?  You have an fan in engine compartment it pulls air across the radiator ... how many exhaust fans ?   Kitchen Exhaust fan  ... got any intakes for that ?  Attic fan ... how many for that ?   In a bedroom if ya wanna cool it down and no AC, at night putting a fan in one window will cool the room quickly with a 2nd window open .... why don't ya need a 2nd fan  ?  Why doesn't it matter whether then fan is intake or exhaust ?

Ya can only roll y eyes at the youtubers who have tested this and come to false conclusion because they test with the side panel off and / or have the case in it's typical position on or under  desk against a wall. ... in which case they are not using interior case air but ambient air.

No other enclosure cooling is designed this way ... power plants, power panels, gen sets ...    When we design a restaurant kitchen we collect the hot air and smoke with a hood and exhaust the air ... there are no intake fans ... we do have intake vents , often with heat exchangers ... but the negative pressure created by the fan sucks fresh air in thru the intake vent. Ever walk into a deli or pizzeria and the door is hard to open but once you "break the seal", it's fine ... thats a poorly designed air system ... exhast fan and no intake vent.    Those holes in your rear case grille are an important part of your case's cooling design ... don't let them go to waste.  Yes, we were all taught in 8th grade that hot air rises ... but not when you sitting in the kitchen or living room below a ceiling fan. 

And that's the problem w/ Linus' review.... as usual, I don't see that Linus has made his point ...

1.  Performance is gimped by having no access to cooler air source...outside ambient air. 
2.  They are using Delta fans ... are we talking 3,000 rpm, 4,000 ... 7,160  rpm fans ?
3.  The air coolers he compared them to are using 1200 - 1500 rpm fans / Phoenix is up to 2,200 .... test is a fail, not apples and apples.
4.  Unit 1/3 the size w/ Copper 5 - 10 degrees ... that's "Duhlusional"


As to apples and apples testing ... yes the Noctua does match or beat 360mm rads ....   And the Scyth Fuma beats the NocPut them at the same fan rpm / noise level  and.... (23:45 mark)

https:   //www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYKdKVxbnp8

Noctua NH-D15 - 70C OC Load / 31C OC idle / 33 dbA
Thermaltake BigWater 3 - 70C OC Load / 33C OC idle / 40 dbA

The Noc ties under load, 2C cooler at idle and the AIO is 1.62 times as loud.



			https://tpucdn.com/review/scythe-fuma-2-dual-tower-cpu-cooler/images/temp_oc_aida64.png
		


Fuma 2 @ cools better than (2) 360,, AIOs, ties another and loses only Swiftech all copper 360 by 2C while the later is 1.62 times louder and the EK by 5C which is 2.15 times louder


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 17, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> Closed loop may be better in temps, but its worse in every other way: cost, maintenance, prone to failure and hard to install.



The only things you got right there are cost and installation.  My loop gets pulled apart every two years, other than that, it gets a drop of biocide every 6 months and dusting just like every other cooler.

They have more points of failure but barbs and clamps are not likely to fail.  If you start getting into compression fittings and quick connects then yeah, you could almost say prone.  Anyone that puts even basic effort into their loop will have no more problems and maintenance than aios or air.


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 17, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> The only things you got right there are cost and installation.


No, he was spot on with every point. There are several threads here on TPU that have multiple examples of such.


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## Vayra86 (Dec 17, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> The only things you got right there are cost and installation.  My loop gets pulled apart every two years, other than that, it gets a drop of biocide every 6 months and dusting just like every other cooler.
> 
> They have more points of failure but barbs and clamps are not likely to fail.  If you start getting into compression fittings and quick connects then yeah, you could almost say prone.  Anyone that puts even basic effort into their loop will have no more problems and maintenance than aios or air.



You pull your loop apart every two years?

I've got air coolers doing just fine after five years of never having entered the case to even dust them. Right now. If something would EVER break, its a 10 dollar fan replacement.

The current one is in service for a year and I didn't open the case yet. I mean really, if you have dust filters and positive pressure, its hard to see dust accumulate and even harder to have it cause problems. And AIOs... they just slowly degenerate into crap and have limited service life. Good luck repairing or replacing parts there to keep something that works as advertised


----------



## EarthDog (Dec 17, 2019)

I just found this from 2005...https://www.overclockers.com/thermosyphons-better-approach-to-cpu-cooling/


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 17, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> You pull your loop apart every two years?
> 
> I've got air coolers doing just fine after five years of never having entered the case to even dust them. Right now. If something would EVER break, its a 10 dollar fan replacement.
> 
> The current one is in service for a year and I didn't open the case yet. I mean really, if you have dust filters and positive pressure, its hard to see dust accumulate and even harder to have it cause problems. And AIOs... they just slowly degenerate into crap and have limited service life. Good luck repairing or replacing parts there to keep something that works as advertised



My water block is modded to fit anything. Is older than a decade. All copper. Was from expandable ThermalTake Big Water SE. Still have the radiator as well. pump and res long gone, but for it's time pretty decent. Got 7 to 8 years from that pump. 

You bought several air coolers through all them years. Spent just as much if you where to have bought a custom water loop one time. A lot of water cooling kit manufacturers will send you updated mounting brackets, or you design your own like I did. 

There is no comparison between Liquid cooling (custom) to any market air cooler. IDC who you are, how big the cooler is and how many heat pipes it has. Water cooling is just better in a fist full of different ways.


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## moproblems99 (Dec 17, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> No, he was spot on with every point. There are several threads here on TPU that have multiple examples of such.



Well, there are several threads about 2080ti's failing prematurely so I guess that means there is a manufacturing defect with 2080tis?  The loops failed because most likely they weren't put together correctly.  Or how about all the countless threads of people bricking GPUs by screwing up the flash?  There are always going to be people that screw things up but when loops are done properly they are not prone to failure.



Vayra86 said:


> You pull your loop apart every two years?
> 
> I've got air coolers doing just fine after five years of never having entered the case to even dust them. Right now. If something would EVER break, its a 10 dollar fan replacement.



There are people who pull their systems apart to repaste yearly.  There are people who upgrade systems more often then two years.  I only took mine apart this time because I upgraded.



Vayra86 said:


> I've got air coolers doing just fine after five years of never having entered the case to even dust them. Right now. If something would EVER break, its a 10 dollar fan replacement.



I've had the same cooling loop since 2012 with the exception of the block.  I could have reused the block if I wanted to by a mounting kit but I chose to upgrade the block.  The only thing on my block that could fail in a different manner than your system is a pump or o-ring.  If an o-ring fails, it is likely because of a poor installation such as the barb over-torqued.  There just isn't a lot of stress on a cooling loop other than heating and cooling cycles and with a properly designed loop, is not a big difference between off and normalized.



Vayra86 said:


> And AIOs... they just slowly degenerate into crap and have limited service life. Good luck repairing or replacing parts there to keep something that works as advertised



No disagreements there.  AIOs suck unless you have some niche reason to have one like clearance issues.

Edit:

Also, I'm definitely not going to argue that custom loops are for everyone.  They definitely aren't.  But they also don't have to be a maintenance nightmare or a failure machine.  That said, most people don't rtfm or care about doing things right so half my arguments go out the window and become void.  BUT, if a loop is designed and implemented correctly, it is not much more maintenance than an air cooler.  It will never be as low maintenance as air but for most people system upgrades will happen more regularly than busting the loop open because you need to.


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## Kissamies (Dec 17, 2019)

I pull my loop apart for about every six months and I don't find that as a pain in the ass? The maintenance isn't that much of a deal.


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## moproblems99 (Dec 17, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> I pull my loop apart for about every six months and I don't find that as a pain in the ass? The maintenance isn't that much of a deal.



My old loop I had setup so I could pull it all out in one piece to work on it.  I could even leak test it outside the case and install the loop in once piece.  I pretty much had an AIO without shitty parts.  I didn't have the GPU in the loop which is why it was possible.


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## Zach_01 (Dec 17, 2019)

You are trying to convince one another for things that are pure preferable choises.
I like 280/360mm AIOs because:

1. They are less noisy than alot tower air coolers (Im running H110i with low fan rpm and low pump rpm)
2. I dont have to do anything complex to install it like a custom loop
3. I only have to maintain the rad from dust. Dont want to mess with disassembly of a custom loop and I surely dont need one.
4. I dont have a case so I dont have to consider ambient case temps or intakes/exhausts (max rad performance without heating other components)
5. I dont have to consider the surrounding components to the CPU socket and if the fit (like ram sticks) or heating up under the tower air cooler

Does these reasons make AIOs likable or suitable for everyone? ...NO!
Does it cost a lot for what it does? ...Yes!

It suits me for what I want...
Its nice to have a lot of options to choose from and everyone can do the same weighting the facts, needs, costs... etc... etc...


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 17, 2019)

Chloe Price said:


> I pull my loop apart for about every six months and I don't find that as a pain in the ass? The maintenance isn't that much of a deal.


Yeah, but you enjoy that kind of thing as do I, not everyone does.


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## moproblems99 (Dec 17, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> You are trying to convince one another for things that are pure preferable choises.
> I like 280/360mm AIOs because:
> 
> 1. They are less noisy than alot tower air coolers (Im running H110i with low fan rpm and low pump rpm)
> ...



Also, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything other than custom loops do not need to be nightmare as they are being portrayed here.


----------



## Zach_01 (Dec 17, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> ...custom loops do not need to be nightmare as they are being portrayed here.


But they are up to a point, and the cost start from at least double of nice AIOs price. There are things to consider... setup and assembly, leaks, growing stuff, cleaning outside/inside and cost and others maybe...
Its not for everyone.

And I didnt mention anyone personally. I meant a lot of the posters here trying to convince one another


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## lexluthermiester (Dec 17, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Also, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything other than custom loops do not need to be nightmare as they are being portrayed here.


I don't think that anyone said or implied that they're a nightmare, just that using them is an involved effort. Whereas solutions like this prototype have the potential to be effortless and very effective at the same time. See what I mean?


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## Kissamies (Dec 18, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> My old loop I had setup so I could pull it all out in one piece to work on it.  I could even leak test it outside the case and install the loop in once piece.  I pretty much had an AIO without shitty parts.  I didn't have the GPU in the loop which is why it was possible.


I also leak test outside and install it after I've tested it. Also much easier to fill and get all the possible air out from the loop. I'll never be using hard tubes..


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 18, 2019)

Since we are using Linus, we may as well look at Tom's as well.

Toms: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/icegiant-prototype-thermosiphon-cooler/2

Tom's was using a 2990WX and was using single tower coolers as comparison (either incompetence or telling of how poor the cooling is of the IG) a Noctua U14S and the IG barely beat the single tower cooler (4C).  That is REALLY poor cooling mass vs mass.  Not impressive at all.

EDIT:  And the IceGiant was 20dB louder. Over 2kg, 20 extra dB, $120 versus a .770kg single tower for half the price ($63) and you get an extra 4C of cooling performace.  Wow! Revolutionary!  Put 2 more fans on it and you can gain 1C.  Although you probably lose that advantage buy putting an extra fan on the U14S.


----------



## Zach_01 (Dec 18, 2019)

Should I mention again that this is a prototype? That it will be reduced in size, weight and maybe increase performance from changing materials and/or by further optimized construction? Should we stay opedminded and just treat it with plain scepticism? Should dismissed it and deny it completely before we even see a final and retail product? if ever see one...

Im not saying that this will be a 100% success... Just dont get ahead of our selves...


----------



## Jism (Dec 18, 2019)

hat said:


> Yeah, that's gonna be a lot of weight hanging on the board for sure.



The threadripper has a enforced socket and all that. That weight is nothing to what it can handle. This is no AM3 or so with just 4 mountingholes.

Impressive results. But i never had a AIO pump failing on me. If that happens the CPU Is hardware protected anyway that it would not burn out. It simply lower clocks or shuts down.


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 18, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> Should I mention again that this is a prototype? That it will be reduced in size, weight and maybe increase performance from changing materials and/or by further optimized construction? Should we stay opedminded and just treat it with plain scepticism? Should dismissed it and deny it completely before we even see a final and retail product? if ever see one...
> 
> Im not saying that this will be a 100% success... Just dont get ahead of our selves...



What are they going to do?  Change it to all copper?  Aluminum only has 60% of the of thermal conductivity so by changing to all copper they should be able to cut down on the size right?  Well, aluminum is  also 70% lighter than copper.  So, if the change this to all copper, the weight is actually going to go up by 10% or so.  5 lbs of copper!  5 LBS!  And guess what, copper is also 3 times more expensive than aluminum.  So what will the final price be?  $250?  That is only double.  For $250 you can get a starter custom loop package and smack the IceGiant around.  Or for $65 you can buy an air cooler that is pretty much just as good.  This thing is this big because it isn't efficient.  And I don't see a market for it.


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Dec 18, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> What are they going to do?  Change it to all copper?  Aluminum only has 60% of the of thermal conductivity so by changing to all copper they should be able to cut down on the size right?  Well, aluminum is  also 70% lighter than copper.  So, if the change this to all copper, the weight is actually going to go up by 10% or so.  5 lbs of copper!  5 LBS!  And guess what, copper is also 3 times more expensive than aluminum.  So what will the final price be?  $250?  That is only double.  For $250 you can get a starter custom loop package and smack the IceGiant around.  Or for $65 you can buy an air cooler that is pretty much just as good.  This thing is this big because it isn't efficient.  And I don't see a market for it.


 Nah. Theyd just slap some little copper cold plate on the bottom and say its 10% better. 
Then give the teen the cooler so he can claim water cooling is dead.


----------



## EarthDog (Dec 18, 2019)

Jism said:


> The threadripper has a enforced socket and all that. That weight is nothing to what it can handle. This is no AM3 or so with just 4 mountingholes.


But it supports all other sockets, some which are simply 4 holes for all intents and purposes.


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 18, 2019)

EarthDog said:


> But it supports all other sockets, some which are simply 4 holes for all intents and purposes.



I like to see the comparison to a 4.5 pound piece of solid copper or aluminum.  Good ole passive cooling.  I bet the performance isn't that far off.


----------



## Zach_01 (Dec 18, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> What are they going to do?  Change it to all copper?  Aluminum only has 60% of the of thermal conductivity so by changing to all copper they should be able to cut down on the size right?  Well, aluminum is  also 70% lighter than copper.  So, if the change this to all copper, the weight is actually going to go up by 10% or so.  5 lbs of copper!  5 LBS!  And guess what, copper is also 3 times more expensive than aluminum.  So what will the final price be?  $250?  That is only double.  For $250 you can get a starter custom loop package and smack the IceGiant around.  Or for $65 you can buy an air cooler that is pretty much just as good.  This thing is this big because it isn't efficient.  And I don't see a market for it.


You like to see (at least this thing) and speak of it with black and white, like there is no bilions of bilions grays in the middle of them... I cant help you much with that.
You are making way too many assumptions and drawing conclusions like its something you personally worked on and tested on, and tested different materials and configurations, and change its setup, and thought of it... and finaly decided and pridestinate its fate... Like the super expert on cooling and thermodynamics.

I cannot even begin to understand this kind of thinking (dont want either) and I'm totally opposed to it. I personally believe, if everyone was thinking like you there will be no innovation to anything...
And innovation comes with successes and failures too... when maybe someone else sees the causes of a failure and tries to fix them.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 18, 2019)

Zach, it's not always what it's cracked up to be. 

First, as noted, it's all aluminum. The heat pipes may help make up for some of that, along with the amount of mass. 
But Aluminum heat soaks much quicker than copper from lack of density. And it just won't do well once that happens.
Otherwise, you'd see stock coolers built from all aluminum, (we do low end only) where there is a small BTU to dissipate.

If someone posted a DH that had a silver cold-plate upgrade, them maybe we'd be getting some interesting cooling results.... 
But this I fear would indeed be tested by average users with poor results depending on climate location most importantly.


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 18, 2019)

Zach_01 said:


> You like to see (at least this thing) and speak of it with black and white, like there is no bilions of bilions grays in the middle of them... I cant help you much with that.
> You are making way too many assumptions and drawing conclusions like its something you personally worked on and tested on, and tested different materials and configurations, and change its setup, and thought of it... and finaly decided and pridestinate its fate... Like the super expert on cooling and thermodynamics.
> 
> I cannot even begin to understand this kind of thinking (dont want either) and I'm totally opposed to it. I personally believe, if everyone was thinking like you there will be no innovation to anything...
> And innovation comes with successes and failures too... when maybe someone else sees the causes of a failure and tries to fix them.



You seem to think that somehow having an opinion on something means that I am oblivious to everything else and will take that opinion to the grave.  I am simply looking at what it is in front of me, the materials we have, thermal dynamics, and how absolutely far it has to go to be Wow! Products don't generally go out to review until they are pretty far along in development.  This is not prototype 1.  They think that it is good enough to send out to people for early review.  They did a nice job with the frame and design and aren't likely going to trash a lot of that. And it isn't like this technology was invented yesterday since dog referenced an article from 2005.  And again, they need to cut the weight by 2.5 just to get it inline with the Nh-D15 which is already considered massive.

Could this thing surprise me?  Sure, and I hope it does.  But as it stands now, it is not impressive.  Just because I have an opinion doesn't mean that it can't change.  There is just no good evidence to change it right now.


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## ShrimpBrime (Dec 18, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> You seem to think that somehow having an opinion on something means that I am oblivious to everything else and will take that opinion to the grave.  I am simply looking at what it is in front of me, the materials we have, thermal dynamics, and how absolutely far it has to go to be Wow! Products don't generally go out to review until they are pretty far along in development.  This is not prototype 1.  They think that it is good enough to send out to people for early review.  They did a nice job with the frame and design and aren't likely going to trash a lot of that. And it isn't like this technology was invented yesterday since dog referenced an article from 2005.  And again, they need to cut the weight by 2.5 just to get it inline with the Nh-D15 which is already considered massive.
> 
> Could this thing surprise me?  Sure, and I hope it does.  But as it stands now, it is not impressive.  Just because I have an opinion doesn't mean that it can't change.  There is just no good evidence to change it right now.



Well your opinion is based off some pretty good facts. I'm in agreement with your comment. 

Here's some facts about metals thermal conductivity.

Mind you fellas with nickel plated copper heat sinks or waterblocks. Lap the nickel off.


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## Vayra86 (Dec 18, 2019)

lexluthermiester said:


> I don't think that anyone said or implied that they're a nightmare, just that using them is an involved effort. Whereas solutions like this prototype have the potential to be effortless and very effective at the same time. See what I mean?



Thank you! That was the point.

I get it, there are reasons to go custom water and they're good ones for those who do it. In the same way, I prefer the advantages that air brings over all the other solutions and this 'invention' could be a step up from that.


----------



## John Naylor (Dec 18, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> The only things you got right there are cost and installation.  My loop gets pulled apart every two years, other than that, it gets a drop of biocide every 6 months and dusting just like every other cooler.
> 
> They have more points of failure but barbs and clamps are not likely to fail.  If you start getting into compression fittings and quick connects then yeah, you could almost say prone.  Anyone that puts even basic effort into their loop will have no more problems and maintenance than aios or air.



I add... 

1.   Immensely quieter.   Every custom water loop we' have been involved with is dead silent .... I could be running a stress test with monitor tuned off  and if ya sat in the chair to use the box, the 1st thing you'd do is hit the power switch because you can not tell the system is running.  My son's is the same way except for the EVGA PSU (1000 watt0 G2), it was replaced under warranty but the replacement is just as loud.

2.  Cost ... you get what you pay for ... if dead silence is the yardstick, there is no other choice.

3.  AIOs fail more often than custom loops.   I don't like the look of barbs and clamps, use rigid acrylic tubing.  No failures to date.  Any failures I have heard of were user caused ... 

Quick Disconnects are locked ... extremely secure.
Compression fittings - Used in home and commercial buildings, I'm in the industry, Only failures I have heard about are when someone puts a nail or cuts thru a pipe.

4.  I don't use custom loops for the temps ... Most of the time we hit the voltage wall (1.5v w/ AVC present) before the temperature wall.  I do it for the silence.

5.  Sitting next to a 6 year old box ...running 24/7 @ max OV w/ 1.387 BIOS voltage setting hitting 1.51 w/ AVX.  No fans are spinning.  Peak gaming, they might hit 550 - 625 rpm and even w/ side panel off ... no sound.


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 18, 2019)

John Naylor said:


> Quick Disconnects are locked ... extremely secure.
> Compression fittings - Used in home and commercial buildings, I'm in the industry, Only failures I have heard about are when someone puts a nail or cuts thru a pipe.



As a once certified master mechanic, I have seen many qds leak.  Also, try using compression fittings on tubing like ek zmt.  The type of tubing that say not to use compression fittings.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 18, 2019)

moproblems99 said:


> Also, try using compression fittings on tubing like ek zmt.


Or use zip-ties. I find they work very well.


----------



## Vario (Dec 18, 2019)

Vayra86 said:


> Thank you! That was the point.
> 
> I get it, there are reasons to go custom water and they're good ones for those who do it. In the same way, I prefer the advantages that air brings over all the other solutions and this 'invention' could be a step up from that.


For me the selling point of air is it is cheap, it can run perpetually without any hassle, and I also use the same cooler on multiple systems, as intel has been on the same hole spacing for a while now.  Watercooling advocates have made points in this thread and others about how the temperatures are better, the system is quieter, etc, but both of those two points I don't care about.  What I do care about is hassle.  My system runs pretty cool for a air cooled system, with typical temps for CPU and VGA at 50*C in game (RDR2, GTA).  I am running large air coolers on both.  I also prefer the fan white noise over a quiet room and selected fans that generate an audible note that agrees with me.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Dec 18, 2019)

John Naylor said:


> I do it for the silence.


A lot of people want dead silence. Some don't care if a system makes a little noise. I'm one of the later. A little noise does not bother me at all.


----------



## INSTG8R (Dec 18, 2019)

Pretty neat to see “VaporX” being resurrected in a pretty interesting application.


----------



## Fry178 (Dec 18, 2019)

This wont really make a big difference for the cooler market in general (+50%).

For ppl to change/switch, stuff needs to be cheaper doing the same thing, or has to do better at the same cost.
vapor/chamber cooling has been done for a while, yet not really taken off.
You can expect about 20-30% vs heatpipe design, doubt it will be same vs water.

But i would like to see it combined with a waterblock, to improve heat transfer from the hotter and smaller chips we now have (ryzen/TR).

I prefered water in the past, as to have no noise coming from the rig at idle/low load.
The only reason for me to do custom loops was to get the parts i wanted, AIO were not really a thing,
and be able to do certain stuff like having pump/rad/fans in an external container 6ft away (with dripless quick connect).

But after i saw almost identical temps running the eisbaer (240) now (vs my custom loop with much better pump/block
and a passive resorator running almost 2gl of coolant), i wont spend the money/time (build),
when i can get within 2-5*C for less than 120$ (and no big rad on my table ).
And i can still refill/flush/replace parts like its a custom loop, even extending loop if needed,
nor am i worried about it failing, as thats normally (only) the case with asetek design based pumps.

One thing i have to laugh about is ppl saying you wont have a problem with dust.
you always will. unless you have  HEPA type fan filters, its just a matter of time until you will have dust (as in dead skin particles).
no positive pressure and/or mesh filter (with holes bigger than a hair) will not be able to prevent that, period.

But my biggest problem is some stating its best to have rad blow the hot air inside the case (vs exhausting),
which is true if your interested in lowest cpu temps and are not running a mid-high end gpu.
As lots of ppl have seen lower fps (than expected) on an air cooled gpu (10xx and 20xx series) because of throttling,
which was basically "fixed" when direction of airflow was changed (hot air exhausted) and/or the gpu was water cooled.
one guy got 15-20 fps more on a 2080 (LC) vs the air cooled 2080ti he had before (and thought was defective).

So unless your (Nv) card stays below 74*C, you will throttle the card and are better off exhausting the cpu heat to the outside of the case.


----------



## Vayra86 (Dec 19, 2019)

Fry178 said:


> One thing i have to laugh about is ppl saying you wont have a problem with dust.
> 
> 
> So unless your (Nv) card stays below 74*C *50C*, you will throttle the card and are better off exhausting the cpu heat to the outside of the case.



FTFY  Though its a mild throttle, Nv cards drop boost bins from 50C onwards, every 5C costs you one or more bins of 13mhz. That is why usually boosts start beyond 2000 and slowly drop off to 19xx mhz for many people. Maybe we should call it 'finding equilibrium'. Its pretty elegant as it is. The real throttling happens beyond 84C, when the card forces the voltages down to remain under that temp. That's when you start losing >50mhz or more on top of all those bins.

About the dust, of course, you're right dust is always a problem in due time. But even a heatsink clogged up will work, it's just going to be far less effective. The comment was mostly meant to offset the idea that regular (bi-monthly or even 2x per year) cleaning is a real necessity, it really depends a lot on your environment, case setup and cooling setup combo how often that's going to be.


----------



## xtreemchaos (Dec 19, 2019)

its horses for courses when it comes to cooling what ever you like, at the mo I like something between a fairground ride and a dialysis machine I don't know why I just do but I also like other peoples air-cooled rigs I don't get into whats best just what I like the look of and lets face it all types of cooling is good nowa days.


----------



## Fry178 (Dec 19, 2019)

@*Vayra86*
Should have said throttling that actually lowers clocks from normal boost numbers.
Not sure where you see 50C as limit.
I can reproduce the same max boost clocks, no matter if im below or above 50C (RTX2080).

Our heat Pump stopped a few days ago and we had pretty low temps inside,
so i decided to do some tests while ambient temp was almost 10F lower,
card stayed below 50C and no difference to max clock (2.08).

True.
Just love when someone says, positive "pressure" and fan screens will prevent (any) dust...
The only time i've seen that, is with hospital grade air filtration (HEPA or better).


----------



## freeagent (Dec 20, 2019)

Or move so much air so fast the dust doesn't have a chance to settle


----------



## bmacsys (Dec 21, 2019)

kapone32 said:


> That is why I like the Alphacool Eisbaer AIOs. They are more like a custom loop than an AIO.




They are junk too. It is so easy to build a real loop and doesn't have to break the bank either.



moproblems99 said:


> The only things you got right there are cost and installation.  My loop gets pulled apart every two years, other than that, it gets a drop of biocide every 6 months and dusting just like every other cooler.
> 
> They have more points of failure but barbs and clamps are not likely to fail.  If you start getting into compression fittings and quick connects then yeah, you could almost say prone.  Anyone that puts even basic effort into their loop will have no more problems and maintenance than aios or air.


He said "closed loop". Not custom loop. You are correct though. A custom loop is not a lot of work to maintain.


----------



## Fry178 (Dec 22, 2019)

Based on what?
You have global numbers showing that more than 10% fail within month/year? Right..
Not even talking about the fact a proper pump (D5) and waterblock alone are almost twice than what i can buy an eisbär for, and you would still need  res/tubing/clamps and connectors.

And a kit that cost the same (~110$), will definitely have an asetek designed pump (main reason most aio are crap/fail), and an eisbar or predator as well as the latest arctic will have in house designed pumps that will not only perform better (flow/pressure)  but are also less prone to fail.


----------



## bmacsys (Dec 22, 2019)

Fry178 said:


> Based on what?
> You have global numbers showing that more than 10% fail within month/year? Right..
> Not even talking about the fact a proper pump (D5) and waterblock alone are almost twice than what i can buy an eisbär for, and you would still need  res/tubing/clamps and connectors.
> 
> And a kit that cost the same (~110$), will definitely have an asetek designed pump (main reason most aio are crap/fail), and an eisbar or predator as well as the latest arctic will have in house designed pumps that will not only perform better (flow/pressure)  but are also less prone to fail.




I don't need numbers to tell me that AIO coolers including the Alphacool Eisbaer are junk. You can build a nice but simple custom loop that doesn't break the bank that actually has value compared to any AIO/closed loop made with the cheapest components sourced from China. It just takes brainpower, patience and planning. In the end you end up with a cooling system of value.


----------



## kapone32 (Dec 22, 2019)

bmacsys said:


> They are junk too. It is so easy to build a real loop and doesn't have to break the bank either.
> 
> 
> You are entitled to your opinion but,  I  would like to think that a 420MM copper rad with a block/reservoir that is also copper and a D5 pump purchased individually (which you can do) would be more than the $129 Euro I paid for the Eisbear 420, The biggest difference between the EIsbaer and a closed loop is the tubing period,


----------



## Fry178 (Dec 22, 2019)

@*bmacsys*
as long as there is no proof showing that that's the case, you're just posting an opinion similar to ppl that have seen a unicorn.

and you know the eisbaer it's not even a closed loop?
i can top off/flush/refill and replace anything on it, like on a custom loop, and one reason i bought it.
and if its value i wanted, i'd buy a sub 30$ air cooler from arctic.

right now i have an aio that is giving me similar temps that i had with a complete custom loop
consisting of 440L/h pump, 60$ block and external resorator with the loop containing almost 2 gal of coolant,
except i dont have to put the loop together, and the whole install took less than just preparing the custom loop,
not even getting more than 3*C better temps than the eisbar, completely ignoring the space it took (case/desk),
or time spend doing a flush/refill.

but hey, put something together that's below 120$ with a better quality pump, copper rad, decent block/res/tubing/fans,
and you have at least proven 50%.

@*kapone32*
pump is also different than almost all closed AIO (except EK/Arctic/AC), and the main reason for me to get it,
as virtually all pump fails had the asetek crap in it.
Its not on the level of a D5, but it has better flow than the asetek stuff and can actually be throttled,
most asetek will not even run when doing more than 25% throttling.


----------



## Fouquin (Dec 22, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> You bought several air coolers through all them years.



For a counter point: I know of a few people who bought the Zalman CNPS 9700 for AM2/939 and still use the exact same cooler on their current Ryzen systems nearly 14 years later. $60 for the cooler and it doesn't look like it'll be obsolete any time soon.


----------



## Assimilator (Dec 22, 2019)

bmacsys said:


> I don't need numbers to tell me that AIO coolers including the Alphacool Eisbaer are junk.



Don't make a claim unless you're willing to back it up with something. Otherwise you're just expressing an opinion, and while you're welcome to do that, if you express said opinion in a way that is harsh or insulting, you will come across as a troll. And nobody likes those.



Fouquin said:


> For a counter point: I know of a few people who bought the Zalman CNPS 9700 for AM2/939 and still use the exact same cooler on their current Ryzen systems nearly 14 years later. $60 for the cooler and it doesn't look like it'll be obsolete any time soon.



I feel like *everyone* (including me!) owned a CNPS and/or TRUE cooler at some stage in their PC building career, they were just so damn good. It just shows how little innovation there has been in the air cooling space.


----------



## HTC (Dec 22, 2019)

Fouquin said:


> For a counter point: I know of a few people who bought the Zalman CNPS 9700 for AM2/939 and still use the exact same cooler on their current Ryzen systems nearly 14 years later. $60 for the cooler and it doesn't look like it'll be obsolete any time soon.


Not as old but i'm using an NH-C14 cooler that i have for over 10 years with my Ryzen.

There has indeed been little innovation in the cooling space, like @Assimilator said.


----------



## Fry178 (Dec 22, 2019)

I would love to see an(y) air cooler having a shroud covering left/right (or top/bottom) sides of the cooler and extend until the (top or rear) exhaust fan,
to completely discharge the hot air outside, instead of dumping it inside the case.
Then it would really be easy to see how much of a difference in temps you get (between air and water).


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Dec 22, 2019)

Fouquin said:


> For a counter point: I know of a few people who bought the Zalman CNPS 9700 for AM2/939 and still use the exact same cooler on their current Ryzen systems nearly 14 years later. $60 for the cooler and it doesn't look like it'll be obsolete any time soon.



I never did say there are exceptions, I should have stated that. Thanks for the reminder to do that more often.

Tell me though.... That cooler ran my FX-55 at 55c. How does it fair today on a modern processor? Screen shots? Rig Pics?


----------



## Mr.Scott (Dec 22, 2019)

Fry178 said:


> I would love to see an(y) air cooler having a shroud covering left/right (or top/bottom) sides of the cooler and extend until the (top or rear) exhaust fan,
> to completely discharge the hot air outside, instead of dumping it inside the case.
> Then it would really be easy to see how much of a difference in temps you get (between air and water).


You mean like an OEM XPS cooler.


----------



## cucker tarlson (Dec 22, 2019)

make clcs cheaper and more efficient,like liqud freezer II.


----------



## Mr.Scott (Dec 22, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> Tell me though.... That cooler ran my FX-55 at 55c. How does it fair today on a modern processor? Screen shots? Rig Pics?


IMO, not good enough.
I have TRUE coolers that kill that Zalman on current gen stuff and they're adequate at best.


----------



## Fry178 (Dec 22, 2019)

*@Mr.Scott*
ay, forgot about that.
but only cause i never liked/recommended XPS rigs (vs what i could build)


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Dec 22, 2019)

Mr.Scott said:


> IMO, not good enough.
> I have TRUE coolers that kill that Zalman on current gen stuff and they're adequate at best.



I'm well aware of the cooling potential or lack thereof with that Zalman 9700. I just wanted to see the evidence or proof of the claims..


----------



## HTC (Dec 22, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> I'm well aware of the cooling potential or lack thereof with that Zalman 9700. I just wanted to see the evidence or proof of the claims..



While i never owned a Zalman 9700, i don't think it's a stretch @ all: just don't overclock.

I'm not overclocking and i use my NH-C14 with the fan @ minimum speed. My cooler is much better with the fan @ full speed but @ minimum speed, it should be close to that Zalman's performance, no?


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Dec 22, 2019)

HTC said:


> While i never owned a Zalman 9700, i don't think it's a stretch @ all: just don't overclock.
> 
> I'm not overclocking and i use my NH-C14 with the fan @ minimum speed. My cooler is much better with the fan @ full speed but @ minimum speed, it should be close to that Zalman's performance, no?



The Ryzen processors are over-clocked at stock. 

So I could run max p-state 3.7ghz I suppose....


----------



## HTC (Dec 22, 2019)

ShrimpBrime said:


> The Ryzen processors are over-clocked at stock.
> 
> So I could run max p-state 3.7ghz I suppose....


If the cooler isn't as good or is restrained like mine (by choice), it just doesn't overclock itself as much under load as it would with a better / not restrained cooler: no need to mess with p-states.

@ most, it will throttle slightly, due to temps.

EDIT

Unless you use Prime95 or other similar programs: then it will throttle a lot due to temps, much like with the stock cooler ...


----------



## Mr.Scott (Dec 22, 2019)

HTC said:


> While i never owned a Zalman 9700, i don't think it's a stretch @ all: just don't overclock.
> 
> I'm not overclocking and i use my NH-C14 with the fan @ minimum speed. My cooler is much better with the fan @ full speed but @ minimum speed, it should be close to that Zalman's performance, no?


If you're not overclocking, there is no point in buying an aftermarket cooler.
Stock coolers are adequate for stock machines.


----------



## HTC (Dec 22, 2019)

Mr.Scott said:


> *If you're not overclocking, there is no point in buying an aftermarket cooler.*
> Stock coolers are adequate for stock machines.



I like the silence of a low noise cooler using a fan @ minimum: when you have your PC about 1.5m away from the bed, silence is golden ...

Besides, i didn't buy it for this CPU because i've had this cooler for ten years: if i already have it, might as well use it, no?


----------



## Mr.Scott (Dec 22, 2019)

HTC said:


> I like the silence of a low noise cooler using a fan @ minimum: when you have your PC about 1.5m away from the bed, silence is golden ...
> 
> Besides, i didn't buy it for this CPU because i've had this cooler for ten years: if i already have it, might as well use it, no?


Don't need a whole cooler to get a quiet fan. 

I do agree though, if you have it already, use it.


----------



## HTC (Dec 22, 2019)

Mr.Scott said:


> *Don't need a whole cooler to get a quiet fan.*
> 
> I do agree though, if you have it already, use it.


With a stock cooler, you usually do because 3rd party fans can't be installed in stock coolers, unfortunately.

How about we get back to topic: there has been enough derailment, no? I did quite a bit of derailment myself ...

If they manage to get the dimensions of this technology more "adequate" and this indeed turns out as good or better than most AIOs, then this is definitely the way to go. As new smaller manufacturing processes continue to improve, the heat gets more and more concentrated, and thus more difficult to counteract: we're reaching a point where air cooling is almost not an option already (TR 3970X) and possibly not an option @ all (TR 3990X).


----------



## ShrimpBrime (Dec 22, 2019)

HTC said:


> With a stock cooler, you usually do because 3rd party fans can't be installed in stock coolers, unfortunately.
> 
> How about we get back to topic: there has been enough derailment, no? I did quite a bit of derailment myself ...
> 
> If they manage to get the dimensions of this technology more "adequate" and this indeed turns out as good or better than most AIOs, then this is definitely the way to go. As new smaller manufacturing processes continue to improve, the heat gets more and more concentrated, and thus more difficult to counteract: we're reaching a point where air cooling is almost not an option already (TR 3970X) and possibly not an option @ all (TR 3990X).



From an enthusiast stand point, this thread, this thermosyphon cooler is a plain joke. 

I can take ANY AIO liquid cooler, drop the radiator into a bucket of ice water and just demolish any air cooler on the market.

Kills liquid cooling.. Get out of here with that baiting gold digging pirate ship.

All aluminum. Yea, I'd pit the Zalman 9700 against it. Why not.

Gah. I'm out..


----------



## Fry178 (Dec 22, 2019)

Yeah definitely not replacing high end cooler for a while, but might be something that i could use for builds that aren't mine.

Wouldn't have to worry about the owner messing anything up (for whatever reason), and with the exhaust side right next to two 120/140mm case fans would at least improve case/gpu temps, even if it wouldn't do much for cpu temps.


----------



## kapone32 (Dec 23, 2019)

While I do love my air cooler (Noctua TR4 DH14) I will be replacing it with a full CPU water block. The main reason is because I want to be able to populate all of my RAM slots. The kicker for me is the entire loop will be comprised of Alphacool Quick connectors. I already bought an Eisstation to cool my crossfire array and they idle in the low 20s C. The best though is that I am using 1 420MM rad to cool the GPUs. The cool thing for me is that I will still have a 420MM Rad to dedicate to my CPU. I might even get another Eisstation to work with the CPU. Though I doubt I may not see more than a 2 to 3 difference in temps (The Noctua is that good) I am definitely looking forward to it. I would have already done it but the first block I ordered has an aluminum block so I am sending it back and getting a Byiski TR4 block.


----------



## Fry178 (Dec 23, 2019)

the best block for cpus with small size (vs heat produced) you need a fast heat transfer, something like the XSPC raystorm pro.
i had the raystorm (non pro) couple years ago and i had some of the lowest cpu temps i've seen (especially for a passive loop).

amd block


----------



## kapone32 (Dec 23, 2019)

Fry178 said:


> the best block for cpus with small size (vs heat produced) you need a fast heat transfer, something like the XPC raystorm pro.
> i had the raystorm (non pro) couple years ago and i had some of the lowest cpu temps i've seen (especially for a passive loop).
> 
> amd block



Nice the reviews on the Byiski block (and price) are my mitigating factors. The XPC Raystorm is $235 on Amazon.ca vs the Byiski for $89.99.


----------



## Fry178 (Dec 23, 2019)

Just make sure you don't get one that has plastic/acryl on it.
its a clone of another brands block that they most likely copied from production in china,
and they usually have a lower price because they use lower quality materials, not just lower labor cost.
e.g., how many have used it for +3y, incl taking it apart 2 or 3 times when doing loop maintenance..

cant you order it thru someone living in the US, or from ebay/online shop other than amazon?


----------



## kapone32 (Dec 23, 2019)

Fry178 said:


> Just make sure you don't get one that has plastic/acryl on it.
> its a clone of another brands block that they most likely copied from production in china,
> and they usually have a lower price because they use lower quality materials, not just lower labor cost.
> e.g., how many have used it for +3y, incl taking it apart 2 or 3 times when doing loop maintenance..
> ...



Unfortunately I live in Canada and they love to charge customs for anything so even if it was cheaper from the States the shipping and customs would eat into those savings. I could get it from Ali Express but it would probably take twice as long to arrive. I think I have seen a similar block from EK. I guess the reason I like/trust Byiski is because they were the only ones that had a block for the Sapphire NItroX Vega 64 card that had a zero fan policy and the fans would not turn on at all until the GPU tempos hit 65 C. I do not like my GPUs idling in the 40 to 50 C range and that block was super nice too. I only use distilled water in my loop. Would acrylic still be a potential problem?


----------



## bmacsys (Dec 24, 2019)

Assimilator said:


> Don't make a claim unless you're willing to back it up with something. Otherwise you're just expressing an opinion, and while you're welcome to do that, if you express said opinion in a way that is harsh or insulting, you will come across as a troll. And nobody likes those.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like *everyone* (including me!) owned a CNPS and/or TRUE cooler at some stage in their PC building career, they were just so damn good. It just shows how little innovation there has been in the air cooling space.




It isn't anecdotal, it isn't trolling nor is it an insult. Why would you take it personally? Seems strange tbh. CLC are junk. They are made of the cheapest materials that can be sourced and there are tens of thousands of posts littering tech forums that attest to that fact. That being said there are a myriad of quality air coolers on the market that are engineered very nicely. Then of course there are custom loops that can be built at a good price if you know what you are doing that will last for years.


----------



## kapone32 (Dec 24, 2019)

bmacsys said:


> It isn't anecdotal, it isn't trolling nor is it an insult. Why would you take it personally? Seems strange tbh. CLC are junk. They are made of the cheapest materials that can be sourced and there are tens of thousands of posts littering tech forums that attest to that fact. That being said there are a myriad of quality air coolers on the market that are engineered very nicely. Then of course there are custom loops that can be built at a good price if you know what you are doing that will last for years.



Based on your post I wonder why AIO coolers are selling faster than air coolers especially at the same price point? You seem to be focused on the rhetoric spouted at the dawn of AIOs. I still have my Cooler Master Nepton 280 from 2013 going strong and it is paired with an AM4 based CPU and it keeps the 1700 at 25-27 C and never above 47 C with a 3.9 GHZ OC on all cores.


----------



## moproblems99 (Dec 24, 2019)

bmacsys said:


> It isn't anecdotal, it isn't trolling nor is it an insult. Why would you take it personally? Seems strange tbh. CLC are junk.



CLC s have their place.  Try to fit that air cooling performance in an itx build....


----------



## AsRock (May 11, 2020)

hat said:


> I'm... not so impressed given the size of that thing.



It's much smaller now.


----------



## lexluthermiester (May 11, 2020)

AsRock said:


> It's much smaller now.


Oh? Got any links or pics?


----------



## AsRock (May 12, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Oh? Got any links or pics?











						IceGiant Cooling
					

IceGiantCooling



					www.icegiantcooling.com
				




I am no fan of PC World of today, how ever they did this video on it and it really shows the size of it.











The one thing that's putting me of it is that their is no copper contact for the CPU sadly, as i was thinking of getting one.


----------



## mtcn77 (May 12, 2020)

AsRock said:


> IceGiant Cooling
> 
> 
> IceGiantCooling
> ...


I hate to intervene, but there was one other company that implemented the same idea, however with the aforementioned copper coldplate.
The idea was not commercially feasible. 'Explosion welding' is not commercial by any stretch of the imagination.




__





						Captherm systems MP1120
					

Any thoughts on this it seems to be an all in one phase change cooler.  http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/captherm-systems-builds-pc-phase-change-cooler-explosions/  looks like an interesting idea. I'd like to see some independent test results to see if the $250 msrp is justified.




					forums.anandtech.com


----------



## sneekypeet (May 12, 2020)

mtcn77 said:


> I hate to intervene, but there was one other company that implemented the same idea, however with the aforementioned copper coldplate.
> The idea was not commercially feasible. 'Explosion welding' is not commercial by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> 
> ...



Pretty sure, in that instance, it certainly isn't feasible when the CEO takes off with much of the loot to leave the company flounder. At least that was the story I got not too long after it showed up at trade shows.


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## mtcn77 (May 12, 2020)

sneekypeet said:


> Pretty sure, in that instance, it certainly isn't feasible when the CEO takes off with much of the loot to leave the company flounder. At least that was the story I got not too long after it showed up at trade shows.


You are the person of interest.
Though, in this case, I pay my respects to the lady CEO. '$99' price tag does not pass the impression of an opportunity past its prime. Good job!

Wow, this chimes my windmills. What if you assorted it with graphite pads? Best of both worlds performance.


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## lexluthermiester (May 12, 2020)

AsRock said:


> IceGiant Cooling
> 
> 
> IceGiantCooling
> ...


That looks smooth. I like it! I'd use one of them. I wonder if it would possible to make downfiring versions(where the fan blows air down on the motherboard)?


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## Caring1 (May 12, 2020)

AsRock said:


> IceGiant Cooling
> 
> 
> IceGiantCooling
> ...


That would only have a practical advantage if mounted vertically on a horizontal motherboard.


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## AsRock (May 12, 2020)

Personally don't think they can


Caring1 said:


> That would only have a practical advantage if mounted vertically on a horizontal motherboard.



I'd say so too ( so would your typical heatpipe cooler ), all so if you watch that video it sounds like it's much better with chips like the Threadripper, but the contact area is not big enough for that so.

I am in no rush right now but i am keeping my eye on it for sure.


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## Fry178 (May 12, 2020)

@Caring1 
ive seen this type of cooling for gpu and it was not affected by the position.
was surprised myself..


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## Rob94hawk (Oct 27, 2020)

AsRock said:


> IceGiant Cooling
> 
> 
> IceGiantCooling
> ...



I'm a little late to the party but I saw this on Linus Tech a few days ago and I hope the finished version works as well or exceeds the performance of the prototype. It would be nice if they give you the option of buying it without the fans.

And at 5:52 she says there's going to be a copper one?! Sounds good to me!


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