# Where to mount a laing ddc pump



## AceAdey (Apr 25, 2012)

Hi guys,

Got my loop apart and swapped the ends of my rads around and am considering - in the middle of - changing the flow direction up my res anti-clockwise.

As it stands I mounted my pump upside down to my rad with a compression fitting. It looks perfectly sound has anyone had a similar experience?

The screws I have also are too long now i'm not using the bracket


Adrian


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## bmaverick (Apr 25, 2012)

Just asking, is the pump up-side-down to gravity?  If so, you could run into premature impeller failure.  This would cut the pump life to about half. 

Read the Laing DDC manual here on pump orientation and positioning ... 
http://bmaverickddcpumps.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/operation_manual_dc_pumps_laing_ddc.pdf 


Other than that, can you post a pix of your setup and maybe a sketch of what you are aiming for after the reworking of the WCing loop?


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## MT Alex (Apr 25, 2012)

bmaverick said:


> Other than that, can you post a pix of your setup and maybe a sketch of what you are aiming for after the reworking of the WCing loop?



Agreed.  It's pretty difficult to offer any decent advice without visual aids.  That being said, I can't think of any good situation where a pump is mounted upside down.


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## phanbuey (Apr 25, 2012)

MT Alex said:


> ..... I can't think of any good situation where a pump is mounted upside down.



That's what she said.

But seriously, I would not risk it, and try to find a different place for it.


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## AceAdey (Apr 25, 2012)

Can the expansion tank go on the push side of the pump opposed to the suction side? I want my loop to first pass the expansion tank then to the top rad.


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## Law-II (Apr 26, 2012)

AceAdey said:


> Can the expansion tank go on the push side of the pump opposed to the suction side? I want my loop to first pass the expansion tank then to the top rad.



Hi

in short No [reservoir, expantion tank or T Line goes before; to the pump inlet (suction side)]

nb: if you do not do this when you fill your loop you risk running your pump dry; not good

Edit: The only *“rule”* for a reservoir is that it come before the pump. This is so the pump will always be supplied with fluid. A dry pump is a dead pump. Another purpose reservoirs serve is to both fill and bleed the system. Bleeding a system removes the air bubbles that inevitably form as a result of filling the system.
Source: http://www.overclockerstech.com/water-cooling-guide-for-beginners/
Please read section entitled The Reservoir

atb (all the best)

Law-II


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## AceAdey (Apr 26, 2012)

I have a rad before the pump, if that's full of water and I also fill the res, and its a big one am I going to have a problem? I don't think the pump will be sucking it dry at all. I will make sure that does not occur. The physics of it is interesting to me.

Thanks I can take pictures for information gathering now. Will go and take some shots of my pump mount, the loop and how I intend it to cirulate.


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## Sasqui (Apr 26, 2012)

AceAdey said:


> I have a rad before the pump, if that's full of water and I also fill the res, and its a big one am I going to have a problem? I don't think the pump will be sucking it dry at all. I will make sure that does not occur. The physics of it is interesting to me.
> 
> Thanks I can take pictures for information gathering now. Will go and take some shots of my pump mount, the loop and how I intend it to cirulate.



I think what they're saying (which is correct), is that you should have the pump as low as possible in the system.  If it's at the top, it may accumulate air (probably will, especially when shut off for a while) and the bearing will be toast when you run it.

If you abide buy that rule, I don't think it matters much if the resevoir is before or after the pump.  Hell I can't even rember how mine is, but the resevoir certainly catches the air.


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## AceAdey (Apr 26, 2012)

Erm apologies, tubing is cloudy, rad looks mangled, etc. E hope u can see what I have started.


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## Sasqui (Apr 26, 2012)

AceAdey said:


> View attachment 46834
> 
> View attachment 46835
> 
> Erm apologies, tubing is cloudy, rad looks mangled, etc. E hope u can see what I have started.



Dirty bits 

Looks like your good with the reservoir above the pump.  You have the pump pushing into the reservior which is fine.  Where is the outlet from the reservoir back into the rad???


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## AceAdey (Apr 26, 2012)

Sasqui said:


> Dirty bits
> 
> Looks like your good with the reservoir above the pump.  You have the pump pushing into the reservior which is fine.  Where is the outlet from the reservoir back into the rad???



Ran out of tube. You can just see the end of the proposed loop with a 90° angle fitting toward the left-hand-side of the bottom rad.


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## MT Alex (Apr 26, 2012)

The outlet on the res is clear at the top, which is a poor idea.  You'd have to keep your loop completely full to avoid air in it, and you would have no effective way to bleed the system.

I'm not sure why you'd want to do this, anyhow, or what happened to the nice layout it started out as in your siggy.


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## Sasqui (Apr 26, 2012)

AceAdey said:


> Ran out of tube. You can just see the end of the proposed loop with a 90° angle fitting toward the left-hand-side of the bottom rad.



Looks like an awkward tubing job you'll have to do.  There should be another opening on the bottom of the resrvoir.  You want to connect to that (NOT the top opeing in the reservoir).

Edit: you may need a right angle fitting to get the tube to that without kinking it.


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## AceAdey (Apr 26, 2012)

I'm so confused now thanks


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## AceAdey (Apr 26, 2012)

MT Alex said:


> anyhow, or what happened to the nice layout it started out as in your siggy.



Originally it produced a slow flow, too many tubes to go clockwise in my view. I'm contemplating closed loop, no drainage at all right now. If that's stupid and does not work tomorrow then I will consider implementing a drain tube.


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## Sasqui (Apr 26, 2012)

Not too complicated... one in and one out at the bottom of the reservoir:


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## AceAdey (Apr 26, 2012)

For draining? Its not coming into the res then back out the bottom and then around. That's not what I intend.


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## Sasqui (Apr 26, 2012)

AceAdey said:


> For draining? Its not coming into the res then back out the bottom and then around. That's not what I intend.



Ok, there should be a nut on the top of your resevoir.  Get a peice of tubing and a fitting to screw into that.  If you need to drain the system, put that in, turn the system upside down (over a bathtub, sink bucket whatever) and shake gently.  Fill the system by using the same opening, but with a funnel.


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## AceAdey (Apr 26, 2012)

Sasqui said:


> Ok, there should be a nut on the top of your resevoir.  Get a peice of tubing and a fitting to screw into that.  If you need to drain the system, put that in, turn the system upside down (over a bathtub, sink bucket whatever) and shake gently.  Fill the system by using the same opening, but with a funnel.



Usually I open one of the fittings, let it run out all down my system and into me wood flooring lmfao


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## Sasqui (Apr 26, 2012)

AceAdey said:


> Usually I open one of the fittings, let it run out all down my system and into me wood flooring lmfao



LOL, not good.  Yanking a tube in the loop to drain can result in disaster too, no matter how many towels you've got.  I had some Koolance fluid splash on RAM modules that then started to flake out.  Rinsed them with a little water and they were fine.

Ive got my rad in the top of the system, and the hole at the bottom of the case with a drain/fill port connected to the bottom hole on the EK reservoir.  It's a pain to fill even with 1/2" tubing but it works.  I usually top off the system through that resevior top nut after it's caught most of the bubbles.

In your case with the radiator at the bottom and fittings facing up (which is good), best way to empty it is to flip upside down.


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## AceAdey (Apr 26, 2012)

Sasqui said:


> In your case with the radiator at the bottom and fittings facing up (which is good), best way to empty it is to flip upside down.



There's also a long 3 fan each side rad at the top. The bits I need for the next stage were dispatched this afternoon. Thanks for the filling insight. Its tricky always. I have no fillport so it is exacerbated. 

Do they take a filling squeezy bottle and just fill fill fill? Can they stop the water from rushing back? If you convince I need one. I was thinking about them anyway. No water has gone in yet so its an open-book.


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## Sasqui (Apr 26, 2012)

AceAdey said:


> Do they take a filling squeezy bottle and just fill fill fill? Can they stop the water from rushing back? If you convince I need one. I was thinking about them anyway. No water has gone in yet so its an open-book.



It'll take a while to fill with the port on top of the EK Res, only because as you put fluid in, the air has to be displaced so take your time and shake it a little, tip back and fourth to make sure the radiator is getting filled.  I use a funnel and wiggle that to let air out as the fluid goes in.  Some bottles have a squeeze tube but most I've seen don't.

Once you get to a point where the resevior is full, tip back and fourth and you should run the pump with computer off for a bit to get trapped air moving and check for leaks.  You'll probably see a bunch of bubbles in the resevoir for a day or two.  Top off the resevior when your done.


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## bmaverick (Apr 27, 2012)

So, if I understand this correctly, you want to have the pump discharge into the RES?  If so, the loop will loose so much head pressure overall.  That pressure is the driving force in the loop.  Reducing it to a piddle stream of nothing will make the processors run hot.


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## sneekypeet (Apr 27, 2012)

bmaverick said:


> So, if I understand this correctly, you want to have the pump discharge into the RES?  If so, the loop will loose so much head pressure overall.  That pressure is the driving force in the loop.  Reducing it to a piddle stream of nothing will make the processors run hot.



pump after or drawing water from the res
Can really go anywhere to be honest, just as long as you aren't using the pump upside down or in any way it can draw air into it. If you did happen to pump into the res, with the pumps we have, it might, and I say might add a degree to the loop.


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## AceAdey (Apr 27, 2012)

bmaverick said:


> So, if I understand this correctly, you want to have the pump discharge into the RES?  If so, the loop will loose so much head pressure overall.  That pressure is the driving force in the loop.  Reducing it to a piddle stream of nothing will make the processors run hot.



Thats pretty much the boat i was in beforehand i was utilising the pump at 100% to get a good flow. At 55% it would trickle and this would be my idle. When I have had it all stripped in the past and cleaned up, but with a new pump, the flow improved drastically. This time I have not added a new DDC pump from Laing, however I trust in my own work. If it flops then I will change the configuration to make it work. This loop looks tidy, but whether it is a fully functioning loop remains to be seen.

I think gravity should be the force sucking water down from the res, as opposed to working against this force, however the res is the very first point of contact with the circulation flowing anti-clockwise. I think if their is a drop off, if the rest of the loop is sound, then that drop off will not be compounded. Ifs and buts. 

With my rads this way around the tube entering and leaving my rads is not immediately visible. I never liked seeing that. It is an aesthetic move. Whether it works or doesn't only time will tell. I have some new bits coming and will use more bits this time, to stop tubing extruding from my blocks. They can be flatter with 45° fittings coming from my blocks on the CPU and into the ramplex and Radeon. Pictures to come when done.


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## AceAdey (Apr 27, 2012)

bmaverick said:


> So, if I understand this correctly, you want to have the pump discharge into the RES?  If so, the loop will loose so much head pressure overall.  That pressure is the driving force in the loop.  Reducing it to a piddle stream of nothing will make the processors run hot.



Yeah should have upgraded to Sandy-bridge. Same temps on air!


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## AceAdey (Apr 27, 2012)

You know the EK res's do they work without the plastic tube inside?


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## Sasqui (Apr 27, 2012)

bmaverick said:


> So, if I understand this correctly, you want to have the pump discharge into the RES?  If so, the loop will loose so much head pressure overall.



Why?  No matter where the pump is in relation to the loop, it all flows in series

Each component in the loop has some amount of head loss at a given flow no matter where it is... including the reservoir.


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## AceAdey (Apr 27, 2012)

Its done. I have one extremely long tube. I want to disguise it. Its sat ready, having let it settle down for leaks.


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## AceAdey (Apr 28, 2012)

Guys my loop did not work. The water got half way round, then the pump was sucking on air. So I reversed it. It has a further issue. Not sure what. It is installed according to their manual; it is below the expansion tank, it starts but is not pulling any water into the loop. I'm tired of it now.


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## AceAdey (Apr 29, 2012)

Need some advice. Started up and spins, the pump, only once has it drawn water (quite fast) into the loop. 99% of the time, nothing. No suction, just rotation.


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## Law-II (Apr 29, 2012)

AceAdey said:


> Need some advice. Started up and spins, the pump, only once has it drawn water (quite fast) into the loop. 99% of the time, nothing. No suction, just rotation.



Hi

Please upload a photo of the cooling loop inside your case [side angle] so that as much of the loop is exposed to view; this to aid with any assitance, as the prevous pictures are a little obscure and however helpful.

nb: the loop has an air lock, but as above this is difficult to see how at this time.

atb

Law-II


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## sneekypeet (Apr 29, 2012)

that tube with the air in it, squeeze it like you would a stress ball. Clamp, release, clamp, release. You have an air lock, it happens. If squeezing the tubing doesn't help start rolling the case to the front and back, from side to side, see if you can get the flow moving.


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## AceAdey (Apr 29, 2012)

This is from the side.  I'm fearing I have made a stupid mistake now. The thing that is getting to me now is when it worked...I was fiddling with the res and BANG it quickly pulled all the water from it. I switched it off afterwards to top the res up and it has been the same, not sucking anything since.

I hope you don't mind rotating your heads or using preview here to spin it.


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## sneekypeet (Apr 29, 2012)

From the tubing I can see there the board is plumbed fine. The one thing that pops out right away to me is that the CPU block is upside down. Not sure if that block is uni-directional for flow.

Is there a way you can get the whole loop in one image?


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## AceAdey (Apr 29, 2012)

sneekypeet said:


> the CPU block is upside down



I switched it so the EK was the right way up. It has been this way up and never had a problem before now. Every time my device reboots so it could be some time before I get that pic uploaded.


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## AceAdey (Apr 29, 2012)

Tilting the rig worked a treat. Geniuses!!!! Thanks for everyone who helped me. I will send out the 'Thanks', you know who you are.


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