# why are gaming keypad/boards so underrated?



## digibucc (Oct 17, 2011)

Ever since my wolf king:






I have not been able to go back to any "normal" keyboards for gaming.  this means any keyboard that is a large rectangle, qwerty dvorak or otherwise.

i had an n52te:




and now i use a logitech g13:





now i love mine, there is simply no question that it is the most comfortable (ergonomic), fast, customizeable and easy to use solution for kb/m gaming.  but i would use an n52 or a wolf king before any "normal" keyboard when gaming.

i simply can't understand why people would rather use a full keyboard than one of these? i can see price, and even the fact that they are simply used to a full keyboard - but any technical reason for anyone? and i know they keys aren't the best switches, but i'm really comparing the styles not the hardware.

thanks!


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## John Doe (Oct 17, 2011)

Those are a hastle IMO. They make in-game typing/chat impossible. If you have to open console to right down a command, you're out of luck again. A full sized keyboard gives superior functionality over those. Not to mention the ones with mechanical switches. They're argueably better than those cheap rubbers. A keyboard doesn't have to be mechanical to be good though, there're solid keyboards with dome switches. Like this notebook keyboard, which makes typing easier due to it's size (travel distance). It has an advantage in games as well. You have control all over the keyboard.


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## digibucc (Oct 17, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Those are a hastle IMO. They make in-game typing/chat impossible. If you have to open console to right down a command, you're out of luck again. A full sized keyboard gives superior functionality over those. Not to mention the ones with mechanical switches. They're argueably better than those cheap rubbers. A keyboard doesn't have to be mechanical to be good though, there're solid keyboards with dome switches. Like this notebook keyboard, which makes typing easier due to it's size (travel distance). It has an advantage in games as well. You have control all over the keyboard.



how often do you type and chat in single player games?  competetive fps? that being said, it's not like you can't have a regular keyboard in front of you to type - you just use the pad to game.

and i recognize the hardware is different. but i'm not talking about that, moreso about the design and layout.


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## erixx (Oct 17, 2011)

Simplicity is a virtue ... for some!

I have a KB, mouse and joystick as 'human interface devices'. Enough gadgets! These pads inmho just don't are different enough from a KB and have a limited use (gaming). 
In the past I've had a Strategic Commander from MS, and although nice etc, I just didn't feel the need to use it after the first week. And the same goes for advanced programming with joysticks: I rather play the games and sims without going thru a week of configuring input devices. 

But hey, I am a 4-pump champ.


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## John Doe (Oct 17, 2011)

digibucc said:


> how often do you type and chat in single player games?  competetive fps? that being said, it's not like you can't have a regular keyboard in front of you to type - you just use the pad to game.
> 
> and i recognize the hardware is different. but i'm not talking about that, moreso about the design and layout.



In any way, personally, I like to be able to type and game right away. Those pads are ergonomic, but they're no match for an IBM keyboard.


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## digibucc (Oct 17, 2011)

so it really just seems they have an underwhelming impression.  anyone that has used them(for more than 5 minutes) and still prefers old keyboards?


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## John Doe (Oct 17, 2011)

Those old keyboards are really better than even new ones. The clicky-clack switches are top-notch. It's a pleasure to type on those. You can bind on the pad, but you can bind on regular keys too.


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## DoomDoomDoom (Oct 17, 2011)

I bought one of those round Wolf King's awhile ago (CSS came with!) and I used it for a little bit, but never quite got used to it. This was when I was actually first getting into PC gaming some years back, growing up mostly a Nintendo kid. I was so used to controllers so I was just trying to find something comfortable, as kb+m was still a tough transition for me. I hadn't played with kb+m since I was _really_ young playing Doom and Wolfenstein on DOS.

Anyway, I have to agree with John Doe. Having a regular-sized keyboard feels almost necessary when playing for whatever reason, be it mental or just "feeling" correct. I think my issue with the Wolf King is that the keys are so low-profile that they feel like laptop keys and it's so easy to move your hand around and accidentally hit the wrong key. It doesn't help there's no indicator where your hand/fingers should be. I really don't think I could try using it now, especially since I use a Filco Majestouch with Cherry blue switches.

Oh, of course the ability to chat at a whim is nice, too.


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## digibucc (Oct 17, 2011)

see for me standard keyboards are too big and bulky.  there is 3x as much space as necessary when all i need is the first third really.

i looked at the filco - i'm sure quality is top notch with it's hardware and price, but imo it is too standard boxy looking.  i need something with more angles and gradients.


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## John Doe (Oct 17, 2011)

I know what you are after, I use one of those in that pic. But this one is an animal

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product_info.php?products_id=30


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## AsRock (Oct 17, 2011)

Don't forget the Zboard Fang.  Which said one fails as it feels spongy and need more keys.

I love the Zboard Fang just got fed up how the keys felt annoyed.

I ideal pad for me would be all the keys from the right side of the keyboard + Fkeys and numbers made in a way that left and right handed people could use.

Those you posted lacks keys at least.


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## John Doe (Oct 17, 2011)

Yeah, I prefer small sized keyboards without numerics. Have been using these backlit notebook keyboards for the past 5+ years. They can be had on the cheap from eBay, and are solid keyboards to type fast. I am addicted to these in my home PC.


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## Shihab (Oct 17, 2011)

It's not that they are underrated for what they are, it's just that most people find it a hassle to have a separate keypad beside the normal keyboard just for gaming. 
 Personally, I'm satisfied with my IOGear 2.4GHz Keyboard.


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## ShiBDiB (Oct 17, 2011)

Well, I dont need my girl laughing at me.. and a normal keyboard works just fine for.. well.. everything.

Thats like people who go, "OMG I got this uber gaming mouse with 18924791247 DPI".. thats cool bro I just killed you again with my $20 logitech


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## Rowsol (Oct 17, 2011)

I wish I had one of those.  I feel that my arms are too far apart with a full size keyboard and mouse pad, but the typing in game is a relevant point.


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## Ahhzz (Oct 17, 2011)

Probably the first game I played that needed tons of keys, outside of maybe TES Arena, was Tribes 2. For that game, a full number pad was a must, as often, you had to change loadouts, and those were keyed to the numpad. For the RPG's that I play most often, even including WoW, Rift, Guild Wars, etc, having multiple keys across the keyboard do so many things, I couldn't even think of trying to do what I want without a full keyboard, or at least 75% of the keys....


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## ERazer (Oct 17, 2011)

I use to owned SteelSeries MERC and switch back to regular mechanical KB, it took awhile to get use to it again

http://steelseries.com/products/keyboards/steelseries-merc-stealth

i really enjoyed using the MERC the lay out made easy to game but the buttons wore out kinna disappointed


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## Rowsol (Oct 17, 2011)

John Doe said:


> I know what you are after, I use one of those in that pic. But this one is an animal
> 
> http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product...products_id=30



I really like that!


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## Fourstaff (Oct 17, 2011)

From a Starcraft 2 nut:

Take a look at the wolfking, the one with the most button:
F1-F12 is there, along with 0-9. Good sign
you need 4keys over 3 rows to remap all of the "activities" you can do: its not there. 
You get G button, allowing you to gg out of the game, but no "l" or "h" or "f", so you must always start your game bad mannered because you cannot "glhf" your opponent. Minor issue, but extremely rude especially in tournaments. 
Backspace is not there: people using the backspace larva inject technique will cry.

And most importantly, its not mechanical, and will wear out every few months compared to few years for mechanical switches. 

I hope I have explained (again for those who didn't see my original post buried somewhere) why no Sc2'er even considered to use these gaming keypads to begin with.

Edit: the alt button is is in a fancy position too, to ping the minimap (alt+g) its going to require a bit of a stretch.


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## John Doe (Oct 17, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> And most importantly, its not mechanical, and will wear out every few months compared to few years for mechanical switches.



Not necessarily true. You can expect any keyboard to last for a few years. Cheap keyboards only use a rubber between the key and the button while better ones (Sidewinder X6/Apple slim keyboard) have rubbers on top of a plastic switch to trigger. The mechanism is not the depending factor to make a keyboard good. As long as you feel comfortable (same with mouse), any keyboard can be the best for you. It is a personal choice. However yes, mechanical are likely to last for much longer. And are known to give a better feeling, which again is subjective.


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## Fourstaff (Oct 17, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Not necessarily true. You can expect any keyboard to last for a few years. Cheap keyboards only use a rubber between the key and the button while better ones (Sidewinder X6/Apple slim keyboard) have rubbers on top of a plastic switch to trigger. The mechanism is not the depending factor to make a keyboard good. As long as you feel comfortable (same with mouse), any keyboard can be the best for you. It is a personal choice. However yes, mechanical are likely to last for much longer. And are known to give a better feeling, which again is subjective.



No, the progamers spamming their "A" button (especially for terrans) will kill their A button in a matter of months if its not mechanical. They even wear out their mechanical buttons. Merz averages over 500apm (from replays), and if he trains for about 5-6 hours a day (lazy European is lazy, koreans train for about 10 a day), he is going to spam about 100k clicks a day. Rubber dome keyboards last only about 1-10 million keystrokes, meaning that he is going to chew through his keyboard in at most 100 days, or 3 months. Even if you take to account that each individual keys last for 1-10 million keystrokes, you must remember that its 500 "blizzard apm", which corresponds to about 600 real apm, say he hits A 1/10 times (not completely unrealistic, that is probably how often I hit A), its going to last at most about 3-30 months, and that is again not very lasting. Add travelling abuse, raging, and things like that, then suddenly it makes little sense to get a good rubber dome keyboard when you can get a cheap mechanical one for about the same price. The only one which koreans approve of are the Q-Senns, but they are a bit different from your normal rubber dome switches, a bit like mechanical keyboard with rubber switches, and they last longer than your average rubber dome ones, and they are really cheap.

But yes, as you said if you feel comfortable with playing with a rubber dome keyboard, then its best for you.


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## hat (Oct 17, 2011)

I've always used a standard keyboard. I've used gaming keyboards at my uncle's place, but I didn't see anything special in it. IMO a keyboard's a keyboard, unless you're someone who presses 90 keys at once or actually uses those special function keys.


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## John Doe (Oct 17, 2011)

I constantly spam my Caps button. I've been doing it for years and it never gave up on me. You can't do it on purpose, it doesn't work that way. The keyboard itself gives up at one time. Either after years (by mechanically), or by bricking itself (electrically). Your calculation is not accurate at all. Even if you spam your keys, they will still last longer than a few months. And if you beat up your keyboard, even a mechanical one would break off so either way, it doesn't make sense. Really, cut off what the Korean's do. You can use whatever you want. It's all up to you. There's no rule. "Pro gamers use this! I need that!" Just no.


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## Fourstaff (Oct 17, 2011)

John Doe said:


> I constantly spam my Caps button. I've been doing it for years and it never gave up on me. You can't do it on purpose, it doesn't work that way. The keyboard itself gives up at one time. Either after years (by mechanically), or by bricking itself (electrically). Your calculation is not accurate at all. Even if you spam your keys, they will still last longer than a few months. And if you beat up your keyboard, even a mechanical one would break off so either way, it doesn't make sense. Really, cut off what the Korean's do. You can use whatever you want. It's all up to you. There's no rule. "Pro gamers use this! I need that!" Just no.



Nope, but they spend much more time in front of their keyboard spamming away the keys, they should have a better idea other than professional typists about keyboard durability. No, you don't do it on purpose, but when you see professionals breaking keyboards (in one way or another, usually because certain keys become unresponsive) every so often in competitions (there seem to be one every other major competition), you realise that keyboards do have a finite life too, and as much as possible you want to keep them as lasting as possible. Especially when you fly from Korea to US (Losira and Coca), and only to break your keyboard and had to borrow someone's, or went to Korea for training (Jinro) and then break your favourite keyboard and found out that you cannot get a replacement fast enough. If you want to use a keypad, you have to bring a keypad, then full sized keyboard for normal chat stuff (haven't seen a major tournament supply a keyboard, all of them demand you bring your keyboard, mouse and earphones), and then a spare gaming keypad again just in case your first one broke (since that gaming on a normal keyboard would have been a bit weird for a gamepad user). Doesn't make any sense logistically.

How often do you spam your tab key? I use my A key every time I build a marine, and in an average 15 minute game I would have built at least 300 of them especially against zerg, then there is stutter step micro, splitting, commanding straight up fights, drops, etc, pretty much every single action other than checking production requires me to hit the A button to reissue the attack command. 

I never said that progamers use this therefore I have to use this, I just used them as an example, and since that people usually follow what the pros use (regardless whether you like it or not, it happens), it doesn't present much of a case that the gaming keypads are the way forward from an RTS gamer's point of view.


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## DrPepper (Oct 17, 2011)

John Doe said:


> Those are a hastle IMO. They make in-game typing/chat impossible. If you have to open console to right down a command, you're out of luck again. A full sized keyboard gives superior functionality over those. Not to mention the ones with mechanical switches. They're argueably better than those cheap rubbers. A keyboard doesn't have to be mechanical to be good though, there're solid keyboards with dome switches. Like this notebook keyboard, which makes typing easier due to it's size (travel distance). It has an advantage in games as well. You have control all over the keyboard.
> 
> http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8693/23042009547.jpg



That was my first ever keyboard and it was bloody amazing.

oh and as a reply to the OP

I like a full sized keyboard because I don't have to change between the two and I don't really think hardware can improve your skill by much at all.


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## TRIPTEX_CAN (Oct 18, 2011)

I like using a gamin keypad because it simplifies the button layout in a way I find more effective. Since my desk is 2 levels I just move my regular keyboard to the top level and its still accessible while being out of my way. As for typing... I don't type while I'm playing unless I'm dead so the point is moot. 

With the smaller gaming pad I have much more room for my mouse on the desk so I never run out of room while gaming.

I use this one. Have had for 5 years now. 


Spoiler


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## digibucc (Oct 18, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> From a Starcraft 2 nut:
> 
> Take a look at the wolfking, the one with the most button:
> F1-F12 is there, along with 0-9. Good sign
> ...



you chose the one board that doesn't have programmable keys, and then proceed to highlight that the available keys ruin it for you. so get one with programmable keys, then you can have everything you need.  n52te and g13 switch loadouts so you can have 3x as many keys as are physically available.



TRIPTEX_CAN said:


> I use this one. Have had for 5 years now.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



before i got my g13 i looked at that quite a few times. ultimately i just decided for more logitech


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## Fourstaff (Oct 18, 2011)

digibucc said:


> you chose the one board that doesn't have programmable keys, and then proceed to highlight that the available keys ruin it for you. so get one with programmable keys, then you can have everything you need.  n52te and g13 switch loadouts so you can have 3x as many keys as are physically available.



I pick the Wolfking because it has the most keys, with n52te and g13 you dont have enough keys to satisfy all the keys you will be needing. Sure, you can use a thumb button to double/triple the keycount, but as I pointed in the previous thread you will need multiple keystrokes for each action, something which is hardly ideal as you are effectively increasing your input lag by needing to guarantee the thumb is depressed first before using the second set of keystrokes. It is also the only touchpad I have came across (and used enough to comment on). 

It just doesn't feel natural playing RTS on a keypad, FPS games work beautifully on keypads though (again as far as my experience goes). The way you game RTS, MMO and FPS are different. My MMO playing buddy cannot play without his G keys in his G15, My FPS buddy cannot play without on the fly switching mouse sensitivity, but I can play my RTS with an absolute crap mouse, but I need a full sized keyboard. My RTS buddy absolutely refuses to touch my G11 because the Escape key is slightly offset, that has caused him to lose a few games (from my eyes, I like to laugh at him when my keyboard trolls him). I would gladly spend that extra few milliseconds to reach across my keyboard than to accidentally fail to depress the thumb button enough to activate the second keyset.


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## digibucc (Oct 18, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> The way you game RTS, MMO and FPS are different.



i recognize that, and to me that's really the only justifiable argument. i still think it's a lot more useful and flexible than you are giving it credit, but i can see in mmos and rtss that 30 keys may not be enough when you get 30 levels into it.


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## Fourstaff (Oct 18, 2011)

digibucc said:


> i recognize that, and to me that's really the only justifiable argument. i still think it's a lot more useful and flexible than you are giving it credit, but i can see in mmos and rtss that 30 keys may not be enough when you get 30 levels into it.



I gave them a try and it didn't impress me enough for me to get one, I don't think I can give them anymore credit


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## Frederik S (Oct 18, 2011)

Because a normal quality keyboard has better and more keys. I only play FPS games and a keyboard with a odd layout is just crap once you are used to playing on a normal keyboard.


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## Cold Storm (Oct 18, 2011)

To me.. I grabbed a G13 due to wanting to try it out... And I was amazed at how it was. It took some time, like most things non Keyboard, to set up and get to the way you want it. But, once you have it set for the game you want, if it's not all ready done up by Logitech, or a third party, it's bliss. You get all the keys that you want in a cluster for yourself.. Don't have to go across a board in order to hit a button. It's right then and there... You have the possability to make every key to the micros that you want it to be, or even a single button. Set it to sec's and so forth.


Now, it's to each their own. There are reasons against it and for it. We all have are likes and dislikes


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## digibucc (Oct 18, 2011)

Frederik S said:


> Because a normal quality keyboard has better and more keys. I only play FPS games and a keyboard with a odd layout is just crap once you are used to playing on a normal keyboard.



i'm sorry but that's not good enough. it's not normal so it's crap, that's hardly an explanation. to each their own of course but i think your argument is lacking. still, thanks for making one


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## Frederik S (Oct 18, 2011)

digibucc said:


> i'm sorry but that's not good enough. it's not normal so it's crap, that's hardly an explanation. to each their own of course but i think your argument is lacking. still, thanks for making one



How is it a bad explanation? Not one of the keypads on the market today features quality key mechanisms, and almost non of them bring any features that make your FPS gaming experience better. And no matter how you put it they have less keys than a regular keyboard. 

In my opinion keypads serve a niche market of single game enthusiast and MMORPG players with the need for an absurd amount of macro enabled keys. 

I would not say they are underrated or useless, they just are what they are.


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## Fourstaff (Oct 18, 2011)

Cold Storm said:


> To me.. I grabbed a G13 due to wanting to try it out... And I was amazed at how it was. It took some time, like most things non Keyboard, to set up and get to the way you want it. But, once you have it set for the game you want, if it's not all ready done up by Logitech, or a third party, it's bliss. You get all the keys that you want in a cluster for yourself.. Don't have to go across a board in order to hit a button. It's right then and there... You have the possability to make every key to the micros that you want it to be, or even a single button. Set it to sec's and so forth.
> 
> 
> Now, it's to each their own. There are reasons against it and for it. We all have are likes and dislikes



Would be nice if you tell me what game you play


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## digibucc (Oct 18, 2011)

as i said, it is lacking. you say it crap because it's got an abnormal layout, that is ridiculous - especially considering the keys are programmable. the only thing i am reading is that you don't want to bother learning to use one, and that's fine - but it doesn't make the device sub-par, or niche.

again, hardware - for the 15th time, i understand no palm-sized devices yet use cherry switches and all that jazz, but i am specifically not talking about that. it is a non-argument i conceded in the very first post that started this thread. i will say i think the hardware is overrated in many cases. unless you are a top tier competitive player - $140 for an ibm replica with different switches is simply insane for normal gamers to buy.  

the measured increase in efficiency is nowhere near worth it - the same can't be said for programmable keys on an ergonomic palm-sized keyboard. simply reducing arm/wrist movement and programming macros (easily) decreases time.

i believe it is simply the fact that it looks weird, coupled with the price and needing an "extra" keyboard, that turns people off from the start. however if you took the time to learn the device i am confident you would find it is much less niche than you claim.


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## Cold Storm (Oct 18, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> Would be nice if you tell me what game you play


That's all ready made
COD: MW
WOW
L4D

I made my own for

BF: BC2
Dead Island
WOW
Shank

Working on:
Dead Space (1&2)
Deus Ex: HR


Only thing I haven't really played it on is a 3rd person game.. I haven't had a want to go back and play any of them.. Maybe I'll throw on Dead Raising to see how it goes.


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## Fourstaff (Oct 18, 2011)

Most of them are shooters, WoW surprised me.


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## Cold Storm (Oct 18, 2011)

Fourstaff said:


> Most of them are shooters, WoW surprised me.



I also played about the hour of my 1.3h with it on Shank. That's side scrolling.

Hey, I got my Shaman to 85 using the G13... Good old Barklight..


I would love to do more and try it out. Been wanting to do a "personal review" on the G13 because if you spend at lease an hour playing around with it.. Your golden. IMHO

Unless it's like Shank, Trine, Booster Tooper, where it's just a few keys that is almost the staple to the G13


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## MT Alex (Oct 18, 2011)

I've always been intrigued by the G13 and would love to try one for a bit.  I dislocated my pinky finger playing football in college, and years of carpentry have made it a little retarded.  Getting to the Z key is a real pain, and since I'm a homerow typer (in my day you had to take a year of typing before you could take any computer classes) I can't seem to retrain my ring finger to do the work.

Do you use the analog stick for movement?


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## digibucc (Oct 18, 2011)

MT Alex said:


> I've always been intrigued by the G13 and would love to try one for a bit.  I dislocated my pinky finger playing football in college, and years of carpentry have made it a little retarded.  Getting to the Z key is a real pain, and since I'm a homerow typer (in my day you had to take a year of typing before you could take any computer classes) I can't seem to retrain my ring finger to do the work.
> 
> Do you use the analog stick for movement?



i don't, but that's just because i prefer keys for movement. i use the analog stick for run and crouch, with both upward-ish axis  being run and both downward-ish being crouch.

i do want to say i am sorry if my last post was a bit over the top, i really want to understand how it's not considered better and the answers were not really giving any explanation.

non shooters? it's great for:
company of heroes,
trine, braid, meatboy, cortex commander, terraria
i also love using it with total war games, including:
empire napolean & shogun 2.
works great with 4x, like x3 etc.
all rpgs (oblivion, witcher, risen, gothic, last remnant etc)
civilization & tropico, etc.
as well as over the head shooters, like the alien breed series.

i could go on and on.  the only game sit is not better for imo is racing, and any game where you need more than 30 keys in any given second.


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## Cold Storm (Oct 18, 2011)

digibucc said:


> i don't, but that's just because i prefer keys for movement. i use the analog stick for run and crouch, with both upward-ish axis  being run and both downward-ish being crouch.
> 
> i do want to say i am sorry if my last post was a bit over the top, i really want to understand how it's not considered better and the answers were not really giving any explanation.
> 
> ...



Ever since Blizzard "banned" my account because my wow account got hacked, Way before I got their app for android, I stopped playing Star Craft II... It took an act of GOD, and a friend that had SS of my playing Star Craft II to get a GM to unban me... I'm unbanned, but I might have to go and try Star Craft and do a 1on1 with if it's a good thing or not.. I get where everyone is going with RTS and it's not.. But, I've never backed down to a thing like that.. I'll test it.. 

What I got to lose? to say "Your right"? I've been engaged twice... I'm a master at saying it without a twitch.


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## digibucc (Oct 18, 2011)

Cold Storm said:


> But, I've never backed down to a thing like that.. I'll test it.



exactly. any game i have tried it with has at most taken a few hours to get used to, once i did and i knew all the keys i needed where and how, there is simply no comparison.

i will admit there is a set up time for every game. but once you've figured out the right setup a full keyboard just seems large and unnecessary.


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## lyndonguitar (Oct 18, 2011)

I prefer normal Keyboards, everything is in there. You have all the controls just at your handspan. 

there are games that have so many key controls(arma, bf, some strategy games). games that have fun to use consoles(source games). games that require excessive typing and chat.(dota type games)

If you only plan to game at home and only at home its okay 

for FPS games its okay to use too but I still prefer keyboards for the fact that you can use consoles more easier, type faster, and of course. not become a shit gamer when you play at other computers

I did this once, I was so good playing at home and then we had a bet match in heroes of newerth at some internet cafe near school and I sucked big time(always pressing wrong buttons)

My optimal gaming inputs would be:

FULL gaming keyboard with gaming mouse + Gamepad(xbox 360 like)
If you love "maneuvering" games then also add a Steering Wheel, Joystick, etc.


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## digibucc (Oct 18, 2011)

lyndonrakista said:


> (always pressing wrong buttons)



see my setup with the g13 has wasd as well as q,e,z,x,c & ctrl & space in regular locations i often find myself starting a game and using the left side of my g110(full kb) , only to switch to the g13 as it's less cumbersome. the key placement however is natural.

i might buy a wheel in the future, but i don't race enough to be worth it now. i use a 360 controller for pretty much any driving, though in rage i stay with the g13, even though they recommend a gamepad.

also, i regularly play battlefield as well as arma (semi regularly) and both work great with the g13. there are enough keys for those games.

the only real time i can see having to switch out is when you play rts or mmos, and you need fast access to 10 or more hotkeys to do spells.  even that though, i use mouse left+right to walk so i don't need wasd or q/e in most mmos/rts, so there's an extra 6 hotkeys.

i'm not trying to discredit your opinion, it's yours and it's right for you. but i am trying to understand if there are any arguments i'm missing - for the most part everything everyone is saying could really be cleared up by trying one for a few hours with an open mind. not saying everyone will like it but most mentioned applications don't lend themselves to NEEDING a full size keyboard. and since a palm sized keypad is different and new(ish) , i am left to assume they haven't taken the time or been willing to try something new.

that being said, i still thank everyone for responding at all and hope to get some more answers


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## mrsemi (Oct 18, 2011)

I agree, I can't live without my g13 and more recently my naga.  I know people get accustomed to using their keyboards for movement and have mastered where to put their keybinds but I just can't imagine not being able to move without a thumbpad.

I owned the Saitek pro gamer & the one after which was identical but red called the cyborg.  Found a review to it in the techpowerup database.
http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/saitek_pro_gamer_command_unit/

That unit's thumb joystick felt like an after thought  and after you used it for a while the spring wore out so you'd have to adjust the software so you didn't run in circles.

The G13 is solid and I will buy another when a deal comes up just in case this one breaks.  I literally can't game without it.

The only thing the g13 is missing that the Saitek unit had was a button where your palm rested with a shift option that I really wish the g13 would integrate.  Simply putting pressure on it doubled your key options.  I know that can be programmed into the mouse but we all know Ctrl alt & shift have unintended functions in a lot of games when combined with the arrow keys or the tab key.

The downside to the game pads is you really do have to spend time to set up every game, most of logitech's default profiles still have wasd programmed on the "G" keys which to me is redundant.

When I talk to fellow gamers they balk at paying for a gamepad when they have a working keyboard but I love them.  

Btw, thanks to the person who posted that deck keyboard, time to retire the logitech illuminated.


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## Cold Storm (Oct 18, 2011)

Lol.. I thought I was the only one that had the G13 and Naga Combo... 


If you can't map that combo out..


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## GoodManUK (Aug 10, 2015)

Logitech G13 it's the best keypad I ever had. It increase my WoW skills in 5x. I am pleased that I bought it. I recommend this keypad for all who want have a good game!


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## Toothless (Aug 10, 2015)

Since we're necroing a 4 year old thread..

I don't recommend the Steelseries game pad as it feel like a small, cheap xbox controller knockoff when horrid turning in racing games. I don't think cars go "slight left, left, more left, SWERVE."


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## Caring1 (Aug 10, 2015)

Toothless said:


> Since we're necroing a 4 year old thread..
> 
> I don't recommend the Steelseries game pad as it feel like a small, cheap xbox controller knockoff when horrid turning in racing games. I don't think cars go "slight left, left, more left, SWERVE."


You haven't been in a car with my Ex.


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## Toothless (Aug 10, 2015)

Caring1 said:


> You haven't been in a car with my Ex.


I assume it's two less turning modes?


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## Mussels (Aug 10, 2015)

i have a razer one and i simply cannot stand the friggin thing. it was a christmas present but i just cant use it for anything.


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## Caring1 (Aug 10, 2015)

Toothless said:


> I assume it's two less turning modes?


And brakes are either on or off, nothing inbetween.


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## Hawkstream (Aug 10, 2015)

I'm a lefty and have never used WASD in my life.  I'm good with the arrow keys!


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## Atomic77 (Aug 10, 2015)

I never used a gaming anything for what ever I do on the computer. I did have a Razor Naga Mouse once though.


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 10, 2015)

I've considered one and can see the appeal for gaming specifically, but I always feel A) it's not enough to replace a KB with, B) I'd really get tired of moving my KB and KP every time I game, and C), quite honestly a KB suffices for me.

KBs are just more versatile. They can handle gaming and every day use just fine.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Aug 10, 2015)

I used a Belkin n52te until the paint wore off the wasd keys and the thumb button started to require a lot of pressure to activate, about 6 years. I loved that gamepad. I recently switched to a Razor OrbWeaver and it is a pretty sweet device. Razor bought Belkin and is making the same version except they now call it the Tartarus. I decided on the OrbWeaver due to the extra keys and mechanical switches.


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## terroralpha (Aug 11, 2015)

it's a love it or hate it thing. no one can make the decision what controller is right for you. personally i hate gaming on anything other than an xbox 360 or PS4 controller. xbone controller is OK too but i prefer the others. i got both of my gaming computers attached to 4K Samsung TVs and connect console controllers to them with USB cables. but my brother thinks I'm crazy and won't game on anything other than his Logitech G710.

i tried several gaming pads from logitech and others. hated them all.


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## R-T-B (Aug 11, 2015)

Not sure how modern gamepads rate, but I actually use my 360 controller for a few things.

EDIT: wait, this is for keypads...  Wasn't even aware such a thing existed until now!


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## Frag_Maniac (Aug 11, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> EDIT: wait, this is for keypads...  Wasn't even aware such a thing existed until now!



LOL, yeah I notice the thread wobbled off course a bit. Keypads shouldn't really be called gamepads.


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## jboydgolfer (Aug 11, 2015)

Well...NOT to brag, but Im running a deLLRT7D20 PS2 KB.


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## 64K (Aug 11, 2015)

jboydgolfer said:


> Well...NOT to brag, but Im running a deLLRT7D20 PS2 KB.



Well, we can't all be living in the lap of luxury like you.


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## tabascosauz (Aug 11, 2015)

Did this guy create an account for the sole purpose of promoting the G13 and necroing a thread from 2011? Jeez, there must be something about priorities that I don't understand.


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## jboydgolfer (Aug 11, 2015)

i didnt realize that it was a damn 4+Y/O last post...Holy shit. somebody's been going through the basement.


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## AsRock (Aug 11, 2015)

R-T-B said:


> Not sure how modern gamepads rate, but I actually use my 360 controller for a few things.
> 
> EDIT: wait, this is for keypads...  Wasn't even aware such a thing existed until now!



You can polish a shit all you  want, it's still shit.   In this case well over priced



tabascosauz said:


> Did this guy create an account for the sole purpose of promoting the G13 and necroing a thread from 2011? Jeez, there must be something about priorities that I don't understand.



LOL, shit happens.


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## Joss (Aug 11, 2015)

I'm considering giving the Logitech G13 a try.

My idea would be to use the small joystick for movement, replacing the usual WASD. 
Has anyone used it this way?


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## ZenZimZaliben (Aug 11, 2015)

I wasn't a fan of the G13 but that has more to do with muscle memory. The Orbweaver layout is almost identical to the n52te so I didn't have a struggle using it. The G13 has keys at angles in stead of a grid -rows/columns and that felt totally weird for me...but it would feel more like a traditional keyboard.


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