# Rusty chokes on Asus mobo.



## qubit (Jan 16, 2010)

These chokes should look silver coloured.

Seems Asus has been a bit naughty with their quality control here. The best bit is that instead of pulling these mobos off the market, they are just dumping them at a lower price. Avoid at all costs.

I use Gigabyte Ultradurable mobos myself. 



> SOME OF YOU might not be old enough to remember the farce about a decade ago about blown capacitors on motherboards. It was a huge issue and came down to the matter of poor choice of components as the motherboard makers tried to save some cost. Although we’re not the first to unearth this, it now appears that a certain manufacturer has ended up with at least some board models that come with pre-rusted chokes.
> 
> Now we feel that it’s our duty to report this issue, not because we want to get the company in trouble, but because we owe it to our readers. The matter of the fact is that the rusty chokes could cause a catastrophic failure of the motherboard they’re fitted to and fry the CPU mounted on the socket in the motherboard. From what we’ve found out it seems like the issue so far is limited to a range of P43, G31 and AMD 785G boards.



SemiAccurate

EDIT: There's now a part 2 to this article.


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## Rakesh95 (Jan 16, 2010)

Thats not what I expect from ASUS, not just ASUS but the whole industry. that would explain why I use Gigabyte motherboards, way better.

This scares me, what about people like me with heat sinks over our Chokes and VRMs, are there any ways we can find out, apart from removing it?


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## sneekypeet (Jan 16, 2010)

wow I thought my ASUS was shite, but my chokes dont look nasty like those.


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## jjFarking (Jan 16, 2010)

Rakesh95 said:


> Thats not what I expect from ASUS, not just ASUS but the whole industry. that would explain why I use Gigabyte motherboards, way better.



ALL manufacturers are guilty of lapses in QC at some point in time..


It's slack though, that's for sure


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## Rakesh95 (Jan 16, 2010)

Not changing the subject but i put the first comment up and then edited it straight away, and   WOW two ppl reply, shows how big this forum is.


@crazyeyesreaper: mate i mean its a lot man, after a edit my post two new replys are posted, so im sayings thats two post within 15 secs of mine.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jan 16, 2010)

well for mister poster above its 5:30am here and i havent slept yet so its a bit early for alot of posters lol

and this is why u dont buy low end boards


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## Frick (Jan 16, 2010)

That's pretty bad. Wouldn't expect Asus do dump the prices like that.


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## crazyeyesreaper (Jan 16, 2010)

i expect companies to do anything and everything to make a profit


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## Frick (Jan 16, 2010)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> i expect companies to do anything and everything to make a profit



Yeah, but still. Bad products are not that uncommon, but recalls are common as well.



crazyeyesreaper said:


> and this is why u dont buy low end boards



Nonsense.


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## Sensi Karate (Jan 16, 2010)

I always thought ASUS as a high quality manufacturer and I still do. Happens to the best of them and I don't blame them for trying to lower the prices to get them sold. A cheap mobo is a cheap mobo.


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## sneekypeet (Jan 16, 2010)

crazyeyesreaper said:


> well for mister poster above its 5:30am here and i havent slept yet so its a bit early for alot of posters lol
> 
> and this is why u dont buy low end boards



its 5:30 here also, and even my p7p55d LE (low end as it gets) dont look like that


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## jjFarking (Jan 16, 2010)

Sensi Karate said:


> I always thought ASUS as a high quality manufacturer and I still do. Happens to the best of them and I don't blame them for trying to lower the prices to get them sold. A cheap mobo is a cheap mobo.



The problem is the potential failure of other components when using a mobo like that.
Would you feel OK with the manufacturer of the mobo you just bought, was responsible for frying your CPU? Or worse?

I wouldn't be.
Bad is bad. Shouldn't be allowed to be sold..


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## Sensi Karate (Jan 16, 2010)

jjFarking said:


> The problem is the potential failure of other components when using a mobo like that.
> Would you feel OK with the manufacturer of the mobo you just bought, was responsible for frying your CPU? Or worse?
> 
> I wouldn't be.
> Bad is bad. Shouldn't be allowed to be sold..



I'm not against you on this, its bad quality and shouldn't be sold. However from a business perspective they want to get rid of the crap stock one way or another. They could either dump millions into the trash or try and salvage some cash by dropping the prices. Maybe this will affect them in the future when people consider to build a computer with good quality components but ASUS makes its money from prebuilt desktops and laptops and to the average folk they are still a great quality company. I doubt this will affect them for the better or worse.


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## AhokZYashA (Jan 16, 2010)

even my P5KPL-AM doesn't look like that..

it doesn't look like rust to me...


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## ste2425 (Jan 16, 2010)

question is yes they cut the price of the mobo but to the customer did they get told why? or just see, what they thought, a decent mobo going stupidly cheap. If the end user wasn't notified why it was so cheap and the problems it can cause, like fyin ya cpu, then id be rather pissed.


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## W1zzard (Jan 16, 2010)

i have strong doubts that this will have any effect on the performance of these coils, but i have to admit it doesn't look nice


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## pantherx12 (Jan 16, 2010)

W1zzard said:


> i have strong doubts that this will have any effect on the performance of these coils, but i have to admit it doesn't look nice



Precisely what i was thinking, the outside of the choke is irrelevant, if its still in working order on the inside ( they have to be other wise Asus legally can't sell the boards! not fit for purpose)


And seeing as there is an entire row I'm sure its just an aesthetic issue.

I would be happy to use the motherboard.

If my stuff died I'd make Asus pay for new stuff anyway!




I actually quite like the look of them lol

I would like an entire rusted look mobo 

that be awesome for me.


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## Frick (Jan 16, 2010)

From this angle it looks like small "boils". That's not good.


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## King Wookie (Jan 16, 2010)

Just a thought. If that was only rust we were seeing, it wouldn't be that reflective. That's under a clear coating of some kind. Might explain the "boils". Bad chemical reaction with a top clear coat maybe? And if that's the case, it's not in contact with air, thus while not looking good not going to be a problem.


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## pantherx12 (Jan 16, 2010)

Before the original site made a hoohaa about this, did they test the motherboards to you know, see if they're s any difference?


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## HalfAHertz (Jan 16, 2010)

From this angle it looks like an artistic touch added to the coils


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## Sensi Karate (Jan 16, 2010)

To me the boils make it look like dice.  Paint those babies black with the boils a white and you'll be pimpin' 4 sho!


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## AhokZYashA (Jan 16, 2010)

it looks like artistic touch to me..
not rust..

and rust dont get that reflective.


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## Frick (Jan 16, 2010)

That site suggests they rust from the inside. That shiny stuff is some sort of coating.


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## Wile E (Jan 16, 2010)

If it doesn't effect the lifespan or performance of the board, who the hell cares?

But, from what I have seen, Asus has gone down hill a little in the past couple years. Not a whole lot, but enough to be noticeable. I'd much rather buy Gigabyte at this point.


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## W1zzard (Jan 16, 2010)

Frick said:


> That site suggests they rust from the inside. That shiny stuff is some sort of coating.



yes the rust is under the coating, probably from some trapped humidity, but i dont think sa said the coils rust from the inside out


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## qubit (Jan 16, 2010)

Wile E said:


> If it doesn't effect the lifespan or performance of the board, who the hell cares?



That's just it, they will. The CPU voltage regulators will fail, taking out the CPU with them, as explained in the article.

I can't believe they are allowed to sell a product with a known defect like that and keep quiet about it. It's fraud, pure and simple.


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## slyfox2151 (Jan 16, 2010)

qubit said:


> That's just it, they will. The CPU voltage regulators will fail, taking out the CPU with them, as explained in the article.
> 
> I can't believe they are allowed to sell a product with a known defect like that and keep quiet about it. It's fraud, pure and simple.



its from semiaccurate so... they got part of it right... they are the wrong color correct, but they got the part about them going to fail wrong. ^^


as has  been said by wizzard. they dont look rusted. sure he might be wrong but i would take his word over theres.


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## qubit (Jan 16, 2010)

slyfox2151 said:


> its from semiaccurate so... they got part of it right... they are the wrong color correct, but they got the part about them going to fail wrong. ^^
> 
> 
> as has  been said by wizzard. *they dont look rusted.* sure he might be wrong but i would take his word over theres.



Oh, they certainly are rusted. Just look at the other pictures in the article and it's really clear to see. These babies are rusting inside out from trapped moisture during manufacture and will fail, taking out the CPU.


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## Mussels (Jan 16, 2010)

> From what we know at the moment, this issue seems to be a local issue in Taiwan and Singapore, but it might be much more widespread than this. The issue that we’re having with it all is that any responsible company would pull these products off the market. Instead we’ve heard that Asus is actually dumping the pricing on the affected models we’re aware of to try to clear its inventory as quickly as possible.
> 
> The models known to be affected include the P5P43TD, the P5P43TD Pro (Intel P43 chipset), the P5G31D-M Pro (Intel G31 chipset), the M4A785-M and the M4A785D-M Pro (AMD 785G chipset).



^ seems pretty localised to me.


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## pantherx12 (Jan 16, 2010)

qubit said:


> Oh, they certainly are rusted. Just look at the other pictures in the article and it's really clear to see. These babies are rusting inside out from trapped moisture during manufacture and will fail, taking out the CPU.




How can you state that as fact without looking INSIDE the choke, the "damage" could purely be aesthetic.

I can appreciate suggesting they could fail, but stating it as fact is just D:


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## W1zzard (Jan 16, 2010)

not sure where i said it doesnt look rusted, it does look like rust but i dont think it rusts from the inside out, inside being the center of gravity of the component, outside being the clear lacquer. of course the lacquer will not rust but it looks to me like it is only rusting on the surface of the metal, right below the lacquer, look up passivation layer (does not apply to rust?), anyone got data on how fast rust moves through solid material ?

these choke coils use a copper coil that is insulated from the surrounding material which seems to be ferrite

no current is flowing through the rusting material, it is only used to strengthen and direct the magnetic field generated by the coil

will going from ferrite to iron oxide have any effect on the inductive properties of the material?

also copper won't rust, so the actual path of the current will not be affected

my fairly well educated guess is that the rusting will not affect the component, if anyone has better claims and can back it up with more than just "it will fail omgzors and your house will explode" then let's hear some arguments 

what happens with the water molecules in the reaction? won't they get "used up" in a sealed system?


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## pantherx12 (Jan 16, 2010)

Seams sound to me, as yes there would be a maximum amount something can rust in a sealed environment . 

Clues in the name of the process, oxidisation, once there's no more oxygen it should not be able to rust further.



It has been a while since I studied such things mind yuo.


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## Kreij (Jan 16, 2010)

If the clear coat was applied prior to the discoloration, why would any oxidation of the surface material occur?
The even discoloration is also something to consider. Things do not usually rust that evenly, but in spots.
I think it does look more like a reaction to the coating material than just normal rusting.

I, of course, could be wrong.


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## Mussels (Jan 16, 2010)

Kreij said:


> If the clear coat was applied prior to the discoloration, why would any oxidation of the surface material occur?
> The even discoloration is also something to consider. Things do not usually rust that evenly, but in spots.
> I think it does look more like a reaction to the coating material than just normal rusting.
> 
> I, of course, could be wrong.



contaminated coating material, perhaps?


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## pantherx12 (Jan 16, 2010)

If there was any moisture or the iron had already started to rust before they put on the lacquer then they could of continued to oxidise for a while.





Anywhom, regardless of what started them they shouldn't corrode any further I think, not even the outside .


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## DaveK (Jan 16, 2010)

It's a new type of rust the government was secretly working on, no one was supposed to know


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## MetalRacer (Jan 16, 2010)

Those appear to be iron core chokes and rust can be a problem in humid climates, especially around coastal areas where there is a high concentration of salt in the air. 

Most high end boards use ferrite core chokes which resist rust better than iron-core chokes.

This could potentially happen to any manufacturer that uses cheap iron core chokes.


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## qubit (Jan 16, 2010)

pantherx12 said:


> How can you state that as fact without looking INSIDE the choke, the "damage" could purely be aesthetic.
> 
> I can appreciate suggesting they could fail, but stating it as fact is just D:



Because of the way the rust is appearing underneath the laquer. This is consistent with the artilcle's claim that they are rusting inside out.

Also, don't forget that these are iron cored chokes, not the more expensive ferrite ones, so any internal rusting would kill this component in time.


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## HalfAHertz (Jan 16, 2010)

What happens when the outer casing rusts away and there is nothing left to protect the coil? I mean the outer casing is there for a reason, right?


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## pantherx12 (Jan 16, 2010)

qubit said:


> Because of the way the rust is appearing underneath the laquer. This is consistent with the artilcle's claim that they are rusting inside out.
> 
> Also, don't forget that these are iron cored chokes, not the more expensive ferrite ones, so any internal rusting would kill this component in time.




If they were rusting from the inside out the rust would look very different, that rust is only of the surface of the metal.


halfahertz, they shouldn't do they've got a lacquer they can only oxidise so much.


Have you guys never deliberately rusted something?

It can stay looking rusty yet not corroding for a long long time, if treated right.

Say painting it with a water proof lacquer 



We made checkers on my friends car once : ]


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## mosheen (Jan 16, 2010)

maybe the lacquer was added after it was already rusted????


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## qubit (Jan 16, 2010)

pantherx12 said:


> If they were rusting from the inside out the rust would look very different, that rust is only of the surface of the metal.
> 
> 
> halfahertz, they shouldn't do they've got a lacquer they can only oxidise so much.
> ...



I guess that's true about limited oxidising. I wouldn't bet that the rust is only on the surface though. The component would have to be taken apart to know for sure.

However, I wouldn't want to buy something that was defectively made and already damaged when I got it. It stands to reason that it would be a pretty bad idea. If nothing else, the choke is likely to be operating out of spec, due to the rusted core. This means you have some dodgy parts in a critical part of the mobo: regulating the power supply to the delicate and likely expensive CPU plugged into it. No thanks.

 It'll be interesting to see how other sites report this problem.


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## pantherx12 (Jan 16, 2010)

The core won't rust, its copper from what I've seen ( from non solid chokes)


But " the component would have to be taken apart for sure" 

True enough, and with that I''ve nothing to say : ]


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## qubit (Jan 16, 2010)

pantherx12 said:


> The core won't rust, its copper from what I've seen ( from non solid chokes)
> 
> 
> But " the component would have to be taken apart for sure"
> ...



I would be a little surprised if it was copper, because it's not magnetic. But then again, it might possible for fine tuning low value chokes and I don't design these things.  After all, just a coil with nothing but air inside it makes a choke too.


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## W1zzard (Jan 16, 2010)

the conducting material does not have to be magnetic to establish a magnet field, it just needs to be a coil

coil with air = low inductance, same coil with iron core = higher inductance = lower number of windings required

the conducting material should be something with low resistance otherwise you get immense heat losses with big currents

if the whole package material would be rusted inside out, the coil would have blown by now, rust increases the volume, since the lacquer is not expanded the volume of rust has to be very small


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## erocker (Jan 16, 2010)

Just checked my 785g and thankfully all looks good. I suppose as with any industry a box of parts went bad and the quality control people are legally blind. Is there any word on how many boards are like this?


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## newtekie1 (Jan 16, 2010)

qubit said:


> That's just it, they will. The CPU voltage regulators will fail, taking out the CPU with them, as explained in the article.
> 
> I can't believe they are allowed to sell a product with a known defect like that and keep quiet about it. It's fraud, pure and simple.



Did you even read the article.

1.) The issue only shows itself on a few low end boards, which likely aren't very popular, and hence have been produced and left sitting for a long while before being sold.  The article even says probably 6 to 8 months.

2.) Because of 1, it means that the problem was likely not visable during the manufacturering and quality control processes.  So the boards looked perfectly fine when they were boxed up.

3.) This is only really an issue that makes ASUS look bad IF ASUS won't RMA the boards because of the issue.  If they take care of the problem, then ASUS has don't nothing wrong, and it certainly won't stop me from buying ASUS boards in the future.

Now my question is, because I honestly don't know, is the part thats rusting seems to just be a casing, I thought all the fancy magic of those chokes happen inside them.  So if only the casing is rusting, how will that affact the actual performance of the choke?


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## imperialreign (Jan 16, 2010)

qubit said:


> http://www.semiaccurate.com/static/uploads/2010/01_january/12p_chokes_WM.jpg
> 
> These chokes should look silver coloured.
> 
> ...




Just curious . . . but what board is that?  

TBH, I've personally used ASUS solely for nearly two decades now . . . and never had any issues with their hardware.  Honestly, I've seen their hardware hold up better than GIGA's, or any other manufacturer.  But, then again, I've only purchased their 1337, upper-end boards; only "issue" I've ever had was with a mid-range (P5W-DH Deluxe), and the CPU/mobo temp sensors were bad right out of the box; otherwise, the board was perfectly fine and rock-solid.

When it boils down to it, though . . . no matter what manufacturer we're talking about, the low-end and lower mid-range boards usually pack sub-par and questionable components . . . it's part of the reason they can offer those boards at such "economical" prices.

Plan and simple, with the PC tech industry, the rule of thumb that's held true for the last 30 years is "you get what you pay for."


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## theorw (Jan 16, 2010)

All these physic and chemistry is really educating but WHEN U BUY FROM A PREMIUM BRAND U EXPECT COMPONENTS TO BE AS DESCRIBED ON THE PRODUCTIONS GUIDELINES.
W/O any artistic or physical touch  OF ANY KIND!
These COILS dont seem to be very apropriate for LONG TIME SPAWN or DURABILITY under HEAVY USE or OCing.
Dont u think?


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## 3volvedcombat (Jan 16, 2010)

Im just reading Wizzards post and its very correct what he is saying. I would use the motherboards anyway, I think the rusted chokes look good acctualy . Even though there Iron there sealed from oxygen/water/humitidy so they cant rust, the main artery is copper so thats all good to me also, AND AT LEAST there working chokes and theres no proof of many failing motherboards because of this or any failing motherboard for that matter. And you have to admit, that old p43-g31 chipsets arnt really that popular anymore and likely will be gone in a year or 2. But the 785g was a little supprise, dosnt bother my opinion on them. As long as the motherboard will work like any other motherboard and overclock just the same, then i dont mind.

but if they started doing this with video cards, im going to load my .357 and go on a trip to asus headcorters.


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## RejZoR (Jan 16, 2010)

Who cares really? I'm not gonna give up ASUS just because of that and any store where i'd bought such mobo, i could return it right away, no questions asked. And get a replacement of course.
Anyone will confirm that this is a factory defect and not an user's fault.


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## W1zzard (Jan 16, 2010)

which guidelines are that ?


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## pantherx12 (Jan 16, 2010)

W1zzard said:


> which guidelines are that ?





The silver choke guideline!

honestly w1zz I expected you to know sucha  simple thing


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## HalfAHertz (Jan 16, 2010)

BTW did anyone think of this video, when they saw the rusty caps?  Warning dangerously weird!


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## qubit (Jan 17, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> Did you even read the article.
> 
> 1.) The issue only shows itself on a few low end boards, which likely aren't very popular, and hence have been produced and left sitting for a long while before being sold.  The article even says probably 6 to 8 months.
> 
> ...



Well duh, yes of course I did. The rusting is not just on the casing, but inside, causing eventual failure and possible destruction of the CPU. The article explained this.

And as far as flogging boards with a known problem without revealing it before sale is fraud, whether they "graciously" RMA them or not.

Did _you_ even read the article?


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## qubit (Jan 17, 2010)

imperialreign said:


> Just curious . . . but what board is that?



I don't know either. I only know what's in that article.



imperialreign said:


> TBH, I've personally used ASUS solely for nearly two decades now . . . and never had any issues with their hardware.  Honestly, I've seen their hardware hold up better than GIGA's, or any other manufacturer.  But, then again, I've only purchased their 1337, upper-end boards; only "issue" I've ever had was with a mid-range (P5W-DH Deluxe), and the CPU/mobo temp sensors were bad right out of the box; otherwise, the board was perfectly fine and rock-solid.
> 
> When it boils down to it, though . . . no matter what manufacturer we're talking about, the low-end and lower mid-range boards usually pack sub-par and questionable components . . . it's part of the reason they can offer those boards at such "economical" prices.
> 
> Plan and simple, with the PC tech industry, the rule of thumb that's held true for the last 30 years is "you get what you pay for."



Sounds like you've had a pretty good run with Asus and chosen wisely from their product range.

I totally agree with your point about the cheap components and getting what you pay for. These chokes are of the cheaper type, which fits in with this.


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## newtekie1 (Jan 17, 2010)

qubit said:


> Well duh, yes of course I did. The rusting is not just on the casing, but inside, causing eventual failure and possible destruction of the CPU. The article explained this.
> 
> And as far as flogging boards with a known problem without revealing it before sale is fraud, whether they "graciously" RMA them or not.
> 
> Did _you_ even read the article?



This comment makes it painfully clear that you have in fact NOT read the article, but instead have taken something and are trying to blow it way out of proportion to try and bash a company for whatever reason.

Where in the article does it say the rusting is anywhere other than the casing?  It doesn't.  It shows pictures of just the casings rusting, and they say it _could_ lead to catastrophic failure of the chokes, but of course it just as well _could_ not.  Without taking the chokes apart and looking inside to see what is happening inside, we don't know if the chokes are even at any risk of failure.  Also, when a choke fails, I've never seen it take a CPU with it, that is essentially totaly BS.  When the choke fails, power will be cut from that Phase, that is what happens when a choke fails.  This might overload the other phases, but all this amounts to is the CPU recieving less voltage than it is supposed to, which will not fry the CPU.  These rusting chokes pose less risk to the CPU then most of us accept when we overvolt a processor.

Your comment about ASUS knowingly selling these boards with a defect really makes it clear you have not actually read the article, as it clearly says that ASUS more than likely did not know about this issue prior to selling the boards.  It has nothing to do with fraud, as ASUS did not know of the problem before selling the boards.


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## DirectorC (Jan 17, 2010)

I for one think it's pretty cool that ASUS is shipping boards with marbled components


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## erocker (Jan 17, 2010)

Clearly the chokes are rusting on the surface underneath the laquer. The chokes were exposed to moisture before the laquer process. It doesn't bode well for the lifespan of the chokes, but since the oxidation is pretty much trapped on the surface it's not so bad, not good either. The oxidation easily could of occured after these things were packed up and shipped out to distributors. It's a hardware defect and it happens from time to time. One would assume that Asus has checked their choke supply by now. No company in their right mind would sell a product that they know to have defective hardware on them. So if you end up gettin an Asus board with rusty chokes, return it for a good one. O' woe is they.


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## qubit (Jan 17, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> This comment makes it painfully clear that you have in fact NOT read the article, but instead have taken something and are trying to blow it way out of proportion to try and bash a company for whatever reason.
> 
> Where in the article does it say the rusting is anywhere other than the casing?  It doesn't.  It shows pictures of just the casings rusting, and they say it _could_ lead to catastrophic failure of the chokes, but of course it just as well _could_ not.  Without taking the chokes apart and looking inside to see what is happening inside, we don't know if the chokes are even at any risk of failure.  Also, when a choke fails, I've never seen it take a CPU with it, that is essentially totaly BS.  When the choke fails, power will be cut from that Phase, that is what happens when a choke fails.  This might overload the other phases, but all this amounts to is the CPU recieving less voltage than it is supposed to, which will not fry the CPU.  These rusting chokes pose less risk to the CPU then most of us accept when we overvolt a processor.
> 
> Your comment about ASUS knowingly selling these boards with a defect really makes it clear you have not actually read the article, as it clearly says that ASUS more than likely did not know about this issue prior to selling the boards.  It has nothing to do with fraud, as ASUS did not know of the problem before selling the boards.



Yup, the rust is coming from the inside, it does say it:



> Here’s a close up of these chokes, notice the bubbles. We’ve never come across anything like this before and *it’s fairly clear that the rust is coming from the inside of the chokes with the moisture trapped inside trying to get out.*



and:



> This means that when the quality control was done, none of these issues would’ve been visible. A probable explanation to the rust is that the iron powder used to make the iron core chokes had water added to it during the milling process and the iron powder was then not dried sufficiently before the chokes were made. The moisture trapped inside the chokes has then started to rust the chokes from the inside out during the time these boards have been sitting in the warehouse.




And yes, it damn well is fraud:



> The issue that we’re having with it all is that any responsible company would pull these products off the market. Instead we’ve heard that Asus is actually dumping the pricing on the affected models we’re aware of to try to clear its inventory as quickly as possible.



Are Asus revealing the fault before sale? Unlikely. I'd be well pissed if I bought such a board and had to return it because of this problem. Stuff like this should be a product recall. Period.

How do you know that a failed choke won't result in a CPU receiving excess voltage? Do you design electronic circuits? Do all CPU power circuits work and fail the same way? Of course not. It's certainly possible that when they go open or short circuit, at the actual moment it happens, you are quite reasonably likely to get a voltage spike, if not also a constant high and unregulated voltage. The power might even cut out; there's too many variables to predict what will happen at the point of failure.

I don't design motherboards, but I do know something about electronics, so if the article says this fault can fry the CPU, I'll take that as good advice and stay away from that product.

It appears painfully clear that you're reading the article, but not understanding it and then having a go at me about it...

If you're gonna try to pull me up on my posts yet again, you're gonna have to do better than this.



erocker said:


> No company in their right mind would sell a product that they know to have defective hardware on them.



+1. It's fraud if they're trying to sell these cheap without revealing the fault first.


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## erocker (Jan 17, 2010)

Perhaps you need to keep your emotions in check. 



			
				qubit said:
			
		

> If you're gonna try to pull me up on my posts yet again, you're gonna have to do better than this.



Please keep the flamebait to yourself too please. Let's all try to post in a friendly matter and not get frustrated when someone has a differing opinion.


Thank you.


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## Wile E (Jan 17, 2010)

qubit said:


> Yup, the rust is coming from the inside, it does say it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If they didn't dismantle the chokes, they cannot claim it's rusting on the inside. They _claim_ it's from they inside out, but have no evidence. Why is that so difficult to understand? 

I claim it's surface rust trapped under some lacquer, and poses no real threat. See what I did there?


----------



## qubit (Jan 17, 2010)

erocker said:


> Perhaps you need to keep your emotions in check.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here we go again. Flamebait? What flamebait? I'm being attacked first and here's the evidence:



newtekie1 said:


> Did you even read the article.



This is his first post to me and is really quite offensive. This is the flamebait" and I'm just defending myself.

And again:



newtekie1 said:


> This comment makes it painfully clear that you have in fact NOT read the article, but instead have taken something and are trying to blow it way out of proportion to try and bash a company for whatever reason.



His logic is then way off, so I could demolish his arguments and the quotes from the article prove I'm right.

If you had been on the end of annoying posts like that, you wouldn't be too happy either, now would you?

I'm not getting "emotional". Given all this, it's quite reasonable to tell him to do better if he's gonna try and pull me up on inaccuracies and accuse me of not reading and understanding properly.


----------



## erocker (Jan 17, 2010)

I'm just asking all parties that post in this thread to do so in a respectable manner. Simple. That is all.


----------



## qubit (Jan 17, 2010)

Wile E said:


> If they didn't dismantle the chokes, they cannot claim it's rusting on the inside. They _claim_ it's from they inside out, but have no evidence. Why is that so difficult to understand?
> 
> I claim it's surface rust trapped under some lacquer, and poses no real threat. See what I did there?



I agree the evidence would be even better if someone took apart those chokes (Charlie D in another expose perhaps?) but seeing rust under the lacquer is bad enough - especially that much. Their theory on how the rust came to be there seems reasonable, too. Hence, I wouldn't say they have no evidence, but I do agree that taking apart a choke would improve it.

One way or another these products should be avoided.



erocker said:


> I'm just asking all parties that post in this thread to do so in a respectable manner. Simple. That is all.



Well yes, quite.


----------



## Wile E (Jan 17, 2010)

qubit said:


> I agree the evidence would be even better if someone took apart those chokes (Charlie D in another expose perhaps?) but seeing rust under the lacquer is bad enough - especially that much. Their theory on how the rust came to be there seems reasonable, too. Hence, I wouldn't say they have no evidence, but I do agree that taking apart a choke would improve it.
> 
> *One way or another these products should be avoided.*


That's where I might disagree. Are these cheaper because of this? Do they still carry the full warranty?

If they're significantly cheaper but still with a full warranty, it's worth buying in my book.


----------



## qubit (Jan 17, 2010)

Wile E said:


> That's where I might disagree. Are these cheaper because of this? Do they still carry the full warranty?
> 
> If they're significantly cheaper but still with a full warranty, it's worth buying in my book.



Hmmm... I see where you're coming from and you have a point!  For myself though, I never buy anything less than grade A, brand new mobos and stay away from the bottom of the range, as this can avoid potential problems with low grade stuff and tends to have the features I want. I apply the same principles to my PSUs and hard discs.

I also meant to add to my previous post, that yes, Asus could spin the problem as a surface cosmetic issue and hence the price reduction. It would then be upto the customer to prove they're lying once the mobo fails, which is frankly unlikely, isn't it?


----------



## newtekie1 (Jan 17, 2010)

qubit said:


> Yup, the rust is coming from the inside, it does say it:
> 
> 
> 
> and:



Really, in the context of the rest of the article, its under the lacquer, and it sounds like they seem to think anything under this lacquer is "inside" the choke.

Again, without anyone actually taking the chokes apart, no claim can be made that the rust is coming from the inside of the choke.



qubit said:


> And yes, it damn well is fraud:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It isn't fraud because ASUS had no knowledge of the problem before the boards were sold.

Guess what I "heard", I heard that ASUS wasn't dumping the price to move the stock...(See what I did there, anyone can say they've heard anything they want.  Without it actually being true or obvious, it shouldn't be given an ounce of credit.)  

I don't know though, I wonder if ASUS is dumping the price to move stock because of the bad chokes, or it could possibly be because 775 is dying and ASUS has a huge stockpile of boards that are about to be totally obsolete...the article even hints at this...  I wonder which is more logical...of course ASUS has been dropping prices on their 775 boards accross the board...but I'm sure that is because all of those have defective parts also, nothing to do with 775 dying...

I know plenty about electronics and specifically computer parts, and I know when a choke fails it doesn't take the CPU out with it.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 17, 2010)

I talked to my old man about this and he started to laugh at me. He was a weapons avionics expert in Vietnam. Needless to say he worked on electronics in a humid environment. I asked him if a rusty choke would affect a circuit in any way and his exact words were "Chokes can't rust. They are made of f#$King copper. They can oxidize but not rust." Basically nothing will happen to the to the choke even after oxidization. His only concern was with the lacquer itself. He said that good lacquer would never "cure" properly on anything with trapped moister. He said if those things get hot and that lacquer softens and melts any you could have a fried circuit if its conductive.

I think my old man is a little nuts but he seems to make sense on this one.


----------



## cdawall (Jan 17, 2010)

qubit said:


> I would be a little surprised if it was copper, because it's not magnetic. But then again, it might possible for fine tuning low value chokes and I don't design these things.  After all, just a coil with nothing but air inside it makes a choke too.



do you even understand the basics behind electronics? current traveling through a chock (coil of wire) creates a magnetic field using inductance and copper is used for its superior conductivity and copper wont rust. iron is only used to boost this magnetism ti has nothing to really do with conduction just induction and being rusted makes no difference with that.


----------



## AsRock (Jan 17, 2010)

King Wookie said:


> Just a thought. If that was only rust we were seeing, it wouldn't be that reflective. That's under a clear coating of some kind. Might explain the "boils". Bad chemical reaction with a top clear coat maybe? And if that's the case, it's not in contact with air, thus while not looking good not going to be a problem.



Yeah same here looks like a bad coating they have used.  They look like they might of been black to start with and with that said who gave the go ahead to use it should be kicked in da ass.

Maybe it's a coating that ASUS have used to tell when the mobo has been pushed passed their specs.

EDIT: If there was rust inside it only be a issue if it degraded the coating on the copper wire which at a guess would do over time.


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 17, 2010)

qubit said:


> I totally agree with your point about the cheap components and getting what you pay for. These chokes are of the cheaper type, which fits in with this.





Sure - motherboard manufacturers are notorious for using lower quality components on their lower-end boards . . . actually, all hardware manufacturers do this with their products.


The one thing, though, that sticks out in the article to me is the fact that the board(s) in question were shelved for 6-8 months from their date of manufacture.  Now, environment comes heavily into play, and not all warehouses are climate controlled.  If the warehouse where these motherboards were stored was subject to extreme heat and humidity, it can accelerate problems.

As well, the problem could've been inherent to the chokes from _their_ manufacturing and storage - who knows how long _those_ were sitting in storage before beind shipped off to another production facility for use on the motherboards?  The evidence of "popcorn" in some of the pics (the raised bubbles in the lacquer) says to me that there was already some amount of moisture (or possibly checmical) present on the surface of the chokes when the lacquer was applied.  It would take a long while for it to rise to the surface, and only heat and additional humidity would facilitate it.


----------



## qubit (Jan 17, 2010)

cdawall said:


> do you even understand the basics behind electronics?



Yes. Do you understand what I posted? 




cdawall said:


> current traveling through a chock (coil of wire) creates a magnetic field using inductance and copper is used for its superior conductivity and copper wont rust. iron is only used to boost this magnetism ti has nothing to really do with conduction just induction and being rusted makes no difference with that.



I was talking about the core of the choke, you know, the bit between the coil. As pantherx12 said it was made of copper, I was a little surprised and explained why. You have misunderstood what I said.

Sticking something magnetic between them boosts the magnetic field. Putting something non-magnetic doesn't. It is possible however, that putting some non-magnetic material there could aid stability in some way when high frequency current is put through the choke, like you would get in a switching regulator on a mobo.

I suggest reading my original post and the one from pantherx12 to get the full picture about what I was saying.

I hope this has clarified it for you. Please try to be a little more pleasant if you don't understand something and I will be perfectly nice to you.



imperialreign said:


> Sure - motherboard manufacturers are notorious for using lower quality components on their lower-end boards . . . actually, all hardware manufacturers do this with their products.
> 
> 
> The one thing, though, that sticks out in the article to me is the fact that the board(s) in question were shelved for 6-8 months from their date of manufacture.  Now, environment comes heavily into play, and not all warehouses are climate controlled.  If the warehouse where these motherboards were stored was subject to extreme heat and humidity, it can accelerate problems.
> ...



Sounds perfectly plausible, yes. It really would be a good idea if some enterprising reporter were to cut one of those chokes open and see exactly how far this corrosion has gone. However, I have a feeling that this will blow over unfortunately and it'll never happen.

Regarding Asus dumping their dodgy stock: remember a while back with those dodgy Seagate 1TB drives that had a firmware lockup problem if certain power cycling/logging conditions were met? They wouldn't work at all when this happened and had to be reprogrammed, which meant an RMA.

A while later, various retailers had Seagate 1TB drives on "special offer"...

Yeah, this practice is wrong and its rife.


----------



## Wile E (Jan 17, 2010)

qubit said:


> Regarding Asus dumping their dodgy stock: remember a while back with those dodgy Seagate 1TB drives that had a firmware lockup problem if certain power cycling/logging conditions were met? They wouldn't work at all when this happened and had to be reprogrammed, which meant an RMA.
> 
> A while later, various retailers had Seagate 1TB drives on "special offer"...
> 
> Yeah, this practice is wrong and its rife.



I don't think it's wrong as long as they discount it and still offer a full warranty. I would've bought one of those 1TB drives if they were discounted enough.


----------



## qubit (Jan 17, 2010)

Wile E said:


> I don't think it's wrong as long as they discount it and still offer a full warranty. I would've bought one of those 1TB drives if they were discounted enough.



Crucially though, they should point out that they have a known problem, or potential problem. Missing this part out is the dodgy bit. Sorry, I should have said that to make it clearer.

If someone then wants to buy one of these at the discounted price, it's fair enough all round.


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Jan 17, 2010)

I have to admit reading through this made giggle like a 12 year school girl...lol

I've worked both in a Steel Mill and at a Company Called Ajax Magnathermic which made Custom Coils For Siemans, Lincoln Electric, Erie Mining Machinery, etc...etc...

When i first seen those Chokes my first thought was High Carbon Black Iron... Specifically the type that they use in Industrial Transformers Which after production is coated in a Clear Lacquer and upon Testing Turns from an Dark Ash Grey to light Reddish brown Color...It's not rust it looks similar but only occurs after the iron is heated and exposed to an EMF, Rust on this type of Iron is Brite Red


This is a Picture from 2005 At Severstal Steel Warren,Ohio outside of the 56"Hot Mill 






That's not Red Paint on the Building It's Iron Rust Dust It never turns brown.. Steel rust turns Dark Brown you can see that to the right


----------



## Mussels (Jan 17, 2010)

You know whats hilarious? if you read this thread title, it sounds like someones dog (rusty) just swallowed an asus mobo, and choked.


----------



## InTeL-iNsIdE (Jan 17, 2010)

Mussels said:


> You know whats hilarious? if you read this thread title, it sounds like someones dog (rusty) just swallowed an asus mobo, and choked.



lmfao thats so true, poor old rusty, RIP 

On a different note, is there any actual proof that this claim is true aside from one pic and this write up on SA, tbh I think they have just got bored of NV bashing and had to turn their attentions else where to drum up hits.


----------



## Mussels (Jan 17, 2010)

InTeL-iNsIdE said:


> lmfao thats so true, poor old rusty, RIP
> 
> On a different note, is there any actual proof that this claim is true aside from one pic and this write up on SA, tbh I think they have just got bored of NV bashing and had to turn their attentions else where to drum up hits.



there are multiple pics, from multiple sources, in multiple languages. try reading the article, paying attention to the sources


----------



## dr emulator (madmax) (Jan 17, 2010)

Mussels said:


> You know whats hilarious? if you read this thread title, it sounds like someones dog (rusty) just swallowed an asus mobo, and choked.


----------



## HalfAHertz (Jan 17, 2010)

Oh noez poor Rusty!


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 17, 2010)

jmcslob said:


> When i first seen those Chokes my first thought was High Carbon Black Iron... Specifically the type that they use in Industrial Transformers Which after production is coated in a Clear Lacquer and upon Testing Turns from an Dark Ash Grey to light Reddish brown Color...It's not rust it looks similar but only occurs after the iron is heated and exposed to an EMF, Rust on this type of Iron is Brite Red




Correct me if I'm wrong - but wouldn't that type of material _not_ cause popcorning ("bubbling") of the lacquer?


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Jan 17, 2010)

imperialreign said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong - but wouldn't that type of material _not_ cause popcorning ("bubbling") of the lacquer?


Not sure TBH Not even totally sure I'm correct But that's what it looks like to me....

My Dad who is an Industrial Electrician said it looks like High Sulfur steel and probably discolored B4 it was coated ... but not rusted 
The bubbles/blisters IDK but I don't think rust would cause that


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 17, 2010)

jmcslob said:


> Not sure TBH Not even totally sure I'm correct But that's what it looks like to me....



S'all good - it's kinda hard to draw conclusions on such pics



> My Dad who is an Industrial Electrician said it looks like High Sulfur steel and probably discolored B4 it was coated ... but not rusted
> The bubbles/blisters IDK but I don't think rust would cause that



Rust doesn't typically cause that kind of "distortion" of any painted coating - it usually causes waves and peeling . . . only thing I've seen cause popcorning is usually the presence of a chemical or moisture underneath the coating.  It bubbles the coating as the gasses are trying to escape.


IDK - I guess the biggest point I was trying to hint at in my earlier post is that ASUS doesn't make the chokes, and it appears to have been an issue that was "trapped" when the chokes were manufactured . . . and seeing as how ASUS has to purchase the components and bring them in for board manufacturing . . .

. . . which means, I'd bet damn good money that ASUS *will not be the only motherboard manufacturer who ends up with rusting/discolored/questionable chokes.*


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Jan 17, 2010)

imperialreign said:


> S'all good - it's kinda hard to draw conclusions on such pics
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My guess is That Certified Iron (which is normally $8,000 a ton) is flooding the market as Mills in Pakistan,Mexico,China,USA,Japan and Russia are still making it and with reduced need The price might now be right for companies to find New uses for it...I bet the Lacquer they use is for a diff type of metal...

EDIT: I am just guessing here IDK for sure but I don't think ASUS would use rusted metal


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jan 18, 2010)

I'd just like to point this out
http://www.asus.com/gallery.aspx?P_...This=true&TB_iframe=true&height=590&width=502
The main PWM chokes are all silver coloured, but the peripheral ones are all nice and brown...
And that's a brand new product...
Brown chokes here too http://www.asus.com/gallery.aspx?P_...This=true&TB_iframe=true&height=590&width=502
Although in this case, the smaller ones are grey...
So Asus must've known about this issue, or am I just presuming things here?


----------



## qubit (Jan 18, 2010)

Mussels said:


> You know whats hilarious? if you read this thread title, it sounds like someones dog (rusty) just swallowed an asus mobo, and choked.



What I'd like to know is why my thread title was changed by a mod? It was fine before as *Avoid Asus mobos -  problem with rusty chokes on new boards* and I'd like it changed back.

As usual, I didn't even get a PM about it.


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Jan 18, 2010)

Oh, well then it would not be as funny


----------



## qubit (Jan 18, 2010)

jmcslob said:


> Oh, well then it would not be as funny



I have to admit it's a good title and pretty funny, lol. I think it may have been renamed for the gag, which isn't so bad. 

So, I wonder who was the enterprising mod with a sense of humour?


----------



## Mussels (Jan 18, 2010)

wasnt me. wish it was


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Jan 18, 2010)

qubit said:


> I have to admit it's a good title and pretty funny, lol. I think it may have been renamed for the gag, which isn't so bad.
> 
> So, I wonder who was the enterprising mod with a sense of humour?



Yeah it's a total PLUS message gets out (Hopefully someone effected Chimes in )

And it's a totally Funny yet Captive Title


----------



## qubit (Jan 18, 2010)

Mussels said:


> wasnt me. wish it was



I forgive you.


----------



## pantherx12 (Jan 18, 2010)

TheLostSwede said:


> I'd just like to point this out
> http://www.asus.com/gallery.aspx?P_...This=true&TB_iframe=true&height=590&width=502
> The main PWM chokes are all silver coloured, but the peripheral ones are all nice and brown...
> And that's a brand new product...
> ...




If Asus know about it then its obviously not anything other then an aesthetic issues.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jan 18, 2010)

And update from SA http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/01/18/mystery-rusty-chokes-part-deux/
Still no reply from Asus...


----------



## newtekie1 (Jan 18, 2010)

TheLostSwede said:


> And update from SA http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/01/18/mystery-rusty-chokes-part-deux/
> Still no reply from Asus...



After reading that, I think the author might be semi-dumb...

He peels the laquer off and the rust comes right off with it.  Then he peals the iron powder away from the copper coil and can't figure out why there is rust on the copper...

What a fucking idiot.  It isn't that hard to put the dots together there...yet they fail miserably at doing so...:shadedshu

Here is the likely issue, there was too much moisture in the air when the iron powder was applied to the choke.  This trapped moistur on this inside where the powder meets the copper and on the outside where the powder meets the laquer.  Rust forms in both places.  Obviously the rust doesn't stick to the powder all that well, probably because it is a powder that breaks apart pretty easily anyway, so the rust sticks to the copper and the laquer.  Seems like the most logical thing to me.  

The copper definitely isn't rusting, that is for sure, so there really is not actual risk of the choke failing.  Also, the rust will likely not get worse.  For rust to continue to form, there has to be a constant source of water and air.  The laquer is designed specifically to prevent air and water from getting in the choke, so the small amount trapped inside will cause a small amount of rust, but nothing more.


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jan 19, 2010)

How would humidity cause that?
The thing would have to have been sprayed by water to accumulate that much moisture.
And have you ever tried breaking a choke? The iron is hard as rock, it's not a powder any more, despite being made out of iron powder (or ferrite powder as it might be in more expensive ones).
Besides, things like this should be manufactured in a controlled environment, so suggesting that the environment where the chokes were made was too damp is just silly.


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Jan 19, 2010)

I take all that back It looks like they used Iron Ore on the updated Pics...
I don't know if that will have an effect on things but it looks and may be bad..

But it still has a warranty right


----------



## pantherx12 (Jan 19, 2010)

TheLostSwede said:


> How would humidity cause that?
> The thing would have to have been sprayed by water to accumulate that much moisture.
> And have you ever tried breaking a choke? The iron is hard as rock, it's not a powder any more, despite being made out of iron powder (or ferrite powder as it might be in more expensive ones).
> Besides, things like this should be manufactured in a controlled environment, so suggesting that the environment where the chokes were made was too damp is just silly.




Only takes some sweaty bugger in the factory


----------



## TheLostSwede (Jan 19, 2010)

pantherx12 said:


> Only takes some sweaty bugger in the factory


 hard to argue with that one


----------



## newtekie1 (Jan 19, 2010)

TheLostSwede said:


> How would humidity cause that?
> The thing would have to have been sprayed by water to accumulate that much moisture.



Not really, it only takes a small amount of moisture to cause surface rust like that.  If the factory's air conditioning broke for a few hours one day, that would be enough to let the humidity get high enough(depending on where the factory is located) to cause the surface rust.  Despite what it looks like, there is actually very little rust there.




TheLostSwede said:


> And have you ever tried breaking a choke? The iron is hard as rock, it's not a powder any more, despite being made out of iron powder (or ferrite powder as it might be in more expensive ones).
> Besides, things like this should be manufactured in a controlled environment, so suggesting that the environment where the chokes were made was too damp is just silly.



Yes, I have tried, and succeeded at breaking a open a choke.  The iron powder might be hard, but is still just compressed powder, and actually breaks apart relatively easy compared to a piece of solid iron.  And when it rusts, due to the rusting process, the particles that rust expand and break themselves away from the others.  Which is why the rust just comes right off with the laquer and sticks to the copper.

And, as I said above, it only takes the air conditioning to go out for a few hours for the factory to get too humid.  And since these are the cheaper chokes, they aren't going to stop production because of it(probably won't on the more expensive either, anyone that has ever worked in a factory would probably agree).


----------



## Mussels (Jan 19, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> Despite what it looks like, there is actually very little rust there.



tiny little bit of rust in a very confined space, would blend with the water and create a rusty water solution - it'd make it look far worse than it really is (you're seeing water + rust in a film over the top of the choke, not solid rust)


----------



## qubit (Jan 19, 2010)

*Rusty chokes on Asus mobo: part 2*







The article states that the copper coil is "rusty", but notes that copper can't rust.



> WE’VE HAD SOME criticism on our original story about the rusty chokes on certain Asus motherboards that got pointed out to us, so we decided to do a follow up. This time around we’ve done what many of the comments around the web have asked for, we cracked one of the chokes open to see what it looks like on the inside.
> 
> Many of those that read the story noted that the rust only seemed to be superficial and we agree that it was hard to tell where it came from, in part due to the clear coating on the chokes. We had one of the chokes from one of the 12-phase boards de-soldered as you can see on the picture below. The chokes are clearly labelled C.S and from what we’ve been told, this is a brand exclusively used by Asus on some of its motherboards.



It's not clear how much this will affect performance over time and it looks like the problem may not be as bad as it seemed at first. _*Many more pictures over at SemiAccurate.*_

SemiAccurate


----------



## erocker (Jan 19, 2010)

A new thread on the same subject isn't necessary. It has been merged with the original thread.

That indeed looks like some sort of corrosion.


----------



## qubit (Jan 19, 2010)

erocker said:


> A new thread on the same subject isn't necessary. It has been merged with the original thread.
> 
> That indeed looks like some sort of corrosion.



Did you merge it once already? I got into a terrible editing muddle before trying to make links between the threads and ended up deleting the post of part 2 and the thread link had become invalid before I deleted it. 

I had simply made a new thread so people would realise more clearly that there was a part 2 to this, but hey, no problem.


----------



## imperialreign (Jan 19, 2010)

erocker said:


> That indeed looks like some sort of corrosion.



IDK - that looks like a solid-state unit, in which case, the "dust" on the core qould simply be remnant of the filling material.

I don't see any discoloration or tarnish of the actual copper, so I would say that there's nothing wrong with the core itself, nor would it be in danger of failing anytime soon.  But, can't see the internals of the core, though.


----------



## Deleted member 67555 (Jan 20, 2010)

imperialreign said:


> IDK - that looks like a solid-state unit, in which case, the "dust" on the core qould simply be remnant of the filling material.
> 
> I don't see any discoloration or tarnish of the actual copper, so I would say that there's nothing wrong with the core itself, nor would it be in danger of failing anytime soon.  But, can't see the internals of the core, though.


I think simply the mass of the materials create the function of the product....

So most likely it just looks ugly


----------



## Wile E (Jan 20, 2010)

The copper isn't even oxidizing. Just as a I thought from the beginning, it's superficial, and nothing but an aesthetic problem. Mountain out of a molehill.


----------



## [H]@RD5TUFF (Jan 20, 2010)

qubit said:


> http://www.semiaccurate.com/static/uploads/2010/01_january/12p_chokes_WM.jpg
> 
> These chokes should look silver coloured.
> 
> ...



This seems like little more than a hit piece on ASUS, no company is without QC, or design problems. An example of this is Mercedes Benz, they spend 10's of millions of dollars each year on QC and over engienering their cars, and they still have problems, I can personally attest to this fact as my Merc's engine block cracked after a mere 11k miles. There are 1,000's of individual pieces in computers as in cars and any one of them can cause problems.

So Meh.


----------



## H82LUZ73 (Jan 20, 2010)

qubit said:


> http://www.semiaccurate.com/static/uploads/2010/01_january/split_choke_5.jpg
> 
> The article states that the copper coil is "rusty", but notes that copper can't rust.
> 
> ...



that copper was not exposed to moister some how,Copper turns like that if water gets on it,Then it turns green like a bad engagement ring.Maybe two things with this 
1,the company supplying ASUS is hiring some bad untrained workers.
2,Some containment in the lacquer itself.

I don`t think  ASUS is to be blamed they make boards not chokes.for all we know the choke`s look normal during the manufacturing and they rust or discolor after shipment.


----------



## TheMailMan78 (Jan 20, 2010)

Wile E said:


> The copper isn't even oxidizing. Just as a I thought from the beginning, it's superficial, and nothing but an aesthetic problem. *Mountain out of a molehill*.


 Welcome to the interwebz.


----------



## dr emulator (madmax) (Jan 20, 2010)

Wile E said:


> The copper isn't even oxidizing. Just as a I thought from the beginning, it's superficial, and nothing but an aesthetic problem. Mountain out of a molehill.



i agree and has everyone voted in this poll


----------



## Flyordie (Jan 20, 2010)

If I was ASUS, I still wouldn't let those boards out in the "public"... maybe revert them to other things like the OEM market...   

Other than that, besides aesthetics... it not a real big issue.  The question SA is trying to ask is this- 
*Would you yourself put this in your rig if you bought that board w/o knowing this was a problem and you actually wanted that board?*


----------



## Wile E (Jan 20, 2010)

Flyordie said:


> If I was ASUS, I still wouldn't let those boards out in the "public"... maybe revert them to other things like the OEM market...
> 
> Other than that, besides aesthetics... it not a real big issue.  The question SA is trying to ask is this-
> *Would you yourself put this in your rig if you bought that board w/o knowing this was a problem and you actually wanted that board?*



If it was cheaper with a full warranty, then yes.


----------



## erocker (Jan 20, 2010)

After looking closer at the 2nd article there is no issue. If there is, it's cosmetic at best. SemiAccurate is reaching for an audience yet again.


----------



## [H]@RD5TUFF (Jan 20, 2010)

erocker said:


> After looking closer at the 2nd article there is no issue. If there is, it's cosmetic at best. SemiAccurate is reaching for an audience yet again.



Reaching is for sure, and the OP was dumb enough to take the bait, they loose more and more creditability every day, articels making unsubstantiated claims, using 1 flaw as an example and claiming it to be the norm. The only reason to read semiaccurate, is for a good example of how not to write tech articals.


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## r@5put1n (Jan 27, 2010)

just found some update about these rusty chokes:

" ...potentially serious issue with certain Asustek Computer motherboards that could leave customers seeing their boards fail sooner than expected, and may even cause damage to other system components such as the CPU. ....

damaged or degraded chokes are unable to retain their charge which forces the MOSFETs to open more frequently. This causes the system to draw more power, reducing the overall efficiency of the motherboard while producing more heat, and increases the workload of other components – the MOSFETs, capacitors, and PSU – which over time could eventually lead to these parts failing also.
The result is a dead motherboard or PSU, and if the user is unlucky, whatever component lies beyond the capacitors, usually the CPU, could also get damaged.

High-quality chokes are made from ferrite, which doesn't rust, while motherboard makers may use cheaper chokes made from iron in their low-end and mid-range boards to reduce costs. This suggests that owners of Asustek's high-end boards aren't likely to be affected by this issue, but that still leaves the cheaper (i.e. the high-volume) segments potentially exposed, meaning Asustek could face a large number of RMA cases down the road."

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100122VL201.html


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## Wile E (Jan 27, 2010)

r@5put1n said:


> just found some update about these rusty chokes:
> 
> " ...potentially serious issue with certain Asustek Computer motherboards that could leave customers seeing their boards fail sooner than expected, and may even cause damage to other system components such as the CPU. ....
> 
> ...


They're full of it. It's cosmetic.


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## pantherx12 (Jan 27, 2010)

Flyordie said:


> If I was ASUS, I still wouldn't let those boards out in the "public"... maybe revert them to other things like the OEM market...
> 
> Other than that, besides aesthetics... it not a real big issue.  The question SA is trying to ask is this-
> *Would you yourself put this in your rig if you bought that board w/o knowing this was a problem and you actually wanted that board?*





Hell yeah, if it breaks it has a warranty anyway


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## imperialreign (Jan 27, 2010)

r@5put1n said:


> damaged or degraded chokes are unable to retain their charge which forces the MOSFETs to open more frequently. This causes the system to draw more power, reducing the overall efficiency of the motherboard while producing more heat, and increases the workload of other components – the MOSFETs, capacitors, and PSU – which over time could eventually lead to these parts failing also.
> The result is a dead motherboard or PSU, and if the user is unlucky, whatever component lies beyond the capacitors, usually the CPU, could also get damaged.




I completely agree . . . except that in this case, we're not talking about damaged or degraded choke _internals_ - simply the outer casing, which does not affect how the choke will operate at all.

As has been pointed out, this is a cosmetic concern.


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## Mussels (Jan 27, 2010)

imperialreign said:


> I completely agree . . . except that in this case, we're not talking about damaged or degraded choke _internals_ - simply the outer casing, which does not affect how the choke will operate at all.
> 
> As has been pointed out, this is a cosmetic concern.



perfectly summarized.


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## [H]@RD5TUFF (Jan 27, 2010)

Mussels said:


> perfectly summarized.



Can we have this thread deleted as it seems to be little more than troll bate.


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## qubit (Jan 27, 2010)

[H]@RD5TUFF said:


> Reaching is for sure, and the OP was dumb enough to take the bait...





[H]@RD5TUFF said:


> Can we have this thread deleted as it seems to be little more than troll bate.



I'm not dumb and you need to stop being so rude, thanks.  If anyone is trolling now, it's you.

You do not make requests for threads to be deleted, especially not ones like this where a helpful poster like me is reporting a genuine motherboard defect to help people avoid buying a dud, ok?

If you read the SA articles _properly_, you'll see that SA reported an understandable concern over corroded/rusted chokes. To any reasonable person this indicates damage and likely failure and should be concerned. When they took the choke apart in the second article, they themselves said the problem doesn't look as bad as initially thought. I suggest your read both articles again with a little more objectivity.

Other sites reported this problem, too.

So, tell me, how are SA "reaching" here?


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## erocker (Jan 27, 2010)

Final warning. Stop pointing out one another in this discussion or the thread will be closed. If you cannot have a civilized discussion on the matter this thread will be closed. Any more reported posts on this thread and it will be closed. Everyone has a right to their opinion. You do not have a right on this forum to make your opinions known about another member that is hurtful in any way. Issue over. Resume on topic discussion.


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## phanbuey (Jan 28, 2010)

Someone needs to give rusty the Heimlich before he chokes on that asus mobo.


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## qubit (Jan 28, 2010)

phanbuey said:


> Someone needs to give rusty the Heimlich before he chokes on that asus mobo.



 Nice.


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## Wilberwind (Jun 3, 2010)

*Rusty choke*

I was curious about this problem and did a bit of research on several Taiwanese forums. It seems that Asus is willing to replace any motherboards with rusty chokes without asking any questions.

This user bought a P5P43TD pro. His board died after 2 months with 12 rusty chokes. 

http://www.pcdvd.com.tw/showthread.php?t=887060&page=3&pp=10







This user bought a brand new M4A77TD PRO motherboard with rusty chokes. 

http://www.shopping01.com/topicdetail.php?f=488&t=1445012&p=1&img=0

Update: I can't get the last 2 pictures to show, so you'll have to visit the forum to see them (they are in the first 2 links of the first post).

Most of the affected motherboards seen here are sold in Asia and have the infamous C.S brand chokes on them.


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## Easy Rhino (Jun 3, 2010)

does rusty chokes sound sexual to anyone else?


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## Mussels (Jun 3, 2010)

Easy Rhino said:


> does rusty chokes sound sexual to anyone else?



just makes me think of a dog eating a mini ITX board.


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## qubit (Jun 3, 2010)

@Wilberwind: I'm not surprised they're not asking questions about replacements, because flogging mobos with known defective components and not declaring it is illegal.

Of course, it's far cheaper and face-saving for Asus to replace a few that finally fail than replace the whole lot in a product recall. The situation stinks and qualifies as a minor scandal.

And finally, welcome to TPU.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 3, 2010)

qubit said:


> @Wilberwind: I'm not surprised they're not asking questions about replacements, because flogging mobos with known defective components and not declaring it is illegal.
> 
> Of course, it's far cheaper and face-saving for Asus to replace a few that finally fail than replace the whole lot in a product recall. The situation stinks and qualifies as a minor scandal.
> 
> And finally, welcome to TPU.



Yeah, if only ASUS actually knew they were "defective" your theory would be correct...


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## NdMk2o1o (Jun 3, 2010)

RIP Rusty


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## qubit (Jun 3, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> Yeah, if only ASUS actually knew they were "defective" your theory would be correct...



So, they're putting out thousands of these and they "don't know" about it? Likely. 

Why else, would they replace them no questions asked (post 127) do you think? Seriously, I'd like to see you try and give me a straight answer to this one...


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## Mussels (Jun 3, 2010)

qubit said:


> So, they're putting out thousands of these and they "don't know" about it? Likely.
> 
> Why else, would they replace them no questions asked (post 127) do you think? Seriously, I'd like to see you try and give me a straight answer to this one...



the boards work when they ship them.

they also replace NON rusty boards when they get RMA'd for not working...

there is no relation between rusty board and above normal service for returns/warranty.


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## NdMk2o1o (Jun 3, 2010)

Hasn't it already been concluded that the chokes arent actually rusty and as for replacing them no questions asked, they do this for any faulty boards supposedly rusty or not.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 3, 2010)

qubit said:


> So, they're putting out thousands of these and they "don't know" about it? Likely.
> 
> Why else, would they replace them no questions asked (post 127) do you think? Seriously, I'd like to see you try and give me a straight answer to this one...



They know it is happening, they just have no way of knowing a board has rusty chokes before selling it.

Remember, the boards look totally normal when ASUS produced and packaged them, it wasn't until they sat on the shelves for a few months that the rust started to appear.

ASUS certainly isn't going to recall every motherboard they ever produced to open and check each one, then repackage and redistribute the 99% that check out fine. Which is why they are replacing the boards without question when they do come up with rusty chokes.


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## qubit (Jun 3, 2010)

Mussels said:


> the boards work when they ship them.
> 
> they also replace NON rusty boards when they get RMA'd for not working...
> 
> there is no relation between rusty board and above normal service for returns/warranty.



So they don't query _any_ board for not working, regardless of rusty chokes fitted or not, no questions asked? That sounds a little surprising.


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## Mussels (Jun 3, 2010)

qubit said:


> So they don't query _any_ board for not working, regardless of rusty chokes fitted or not, no questions asked? That sounds a little surprising.



if a board comes back and it doesnt work, within warranty period... yeah they dont ask many questions apart from 'does it look like the user hit it with a hammer?'


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## Laurijan (Jun 3, 2010)

Frick said:


> http://www.semiaccurate.com/static/uploads/2010/01_january/buble_choke_WM.jpg
> 
> From this angle it looks like small "boils". That's not good.



Really unbelievable!


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## Laurijan (Jun 3, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> They know it is happening, they just have no way of knowing a board has rusty chokes before selling it.
> 
> Remember, the boards look totally normal when ASUS produced and packaged them, it wasn't until they sat on the shelves for a few months that the rust started to appear.
> 
> ASUS certainly isn't going to recall every motherboard they ever produced to open and check each one, then repackage and redistribute the 99% that check out fine. Which is why they are replacing the boards without question when they do come up with rusty chokes.



Still you cant sell rotten food too...


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## newtekie1 (Jun 3, 2010)

qubit said:


> So they don't query _any_ board for not working, regardless of rusty chokes fitted or not, no questions asked? That sounds a little surprising.



Have you ever dealt with ASUS' Support?  This is how it goes:

Customer: I need to RMA my motherboard.
Service Rep: Why?
Customer: It doesn't boot.
Service Rep: What is the serial number?
Customer: <Insert Serial Number>
Service Rep: Your RMA number is <Insert RMA Number>

Then you ship the board back, they test it, and fix/replace it if necessary.  No questions asked is just how they work.  I've even shipped back a perfectly functioning board, they just returned with a note saying nothing was wrong with the board(turned out RAM was bad).



Laurijan said:


> Still you cant sell rotten food too...



Sure you can.  You've never openned a bag of potato chips and had that one funky green chip?  You've never bought a container of strawberries and had one that was in the middle rotten?  I have.  Companies can't see through walls, so they can't see through packaging to make sure the product is still perfect when it reachs the customer, all they can assure is that it looked perfect when they packaged it up, which these boards did look perfect.


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## qubit (Jun 3, 2010)

Mussels said:


> if a board comes back and it doesnt work, within warranty period... yeah they dont ask many questions apart from 'does it look like the user hit it with a hammer?'



K, I'll accept that; I don't personally know the inner workings of Asus after all... lol

However, that still doesn't rule out that they shipped out a bunch of duffers. I reckon they've figured out they'll last long enough in most cases that people won't complain. They'd then rather handle the returned boards them as a "warranty failure" rather than do a (much) more expensive product recall and replace them with perfect boards. Heck, most companies aren't above this sort of sharp practice, especially in a recession.
*
EDIT: Newtekie1 replied while I was drafting my masterpiece above. 
*


newtekie1 said:


> Have you ever dealt with ASUS' Support?  This is how it goes:
> 
> Customer: I need to RMA my motherboard.
> Service Rep: Why?
> ...



Thanks NT. Ditto answer as for Mussels.

I have returned a dead Asus board once, but it I dealt with the retailer, not Asus, so I don't have personal experience of their customer service.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 3, 2010)

There are really only a few differences between recalling a product and not.  

When you recall a product, you inconvienince every customer that has it.  However, if you don't recall it, then you only inconvienince the customers that have the boards that fail, all the people with boards that don't fail are not inconvienince.  Either way, the customer has to ship the board back to ASUS and be without while it is replaced.  A lot of time customers that aren't having any problems at all get more annoyed by this then if you just left them alone, and a lot of times they don't even bother to send the "bad" part in.  Just look at the HP recall of their laptops that overheat, I still see people come in my shop that haven't sent their laptop in, in fact I saw one last week.  The laptop is working fine, so they have no reason to send it in.

IMO, it is actually better to just replace the boards as they fail.  If they never fail, great.  If they do fail, they are replaced.


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## qubit (Jun 3, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> There are really only a few difference between recalling a product and not.
> 
> When you recall a product, you inconvienince every customer that has it.  However, if you don't recall it, then you only inconvienince the customers that have the boards that fail, all the people with boards that don't fail are not inconvienince.  Either way, the customer has to ship the board back to ASUS and be without while it is replaced.
> 
> IMO, it is actually better to just replace the boards as they fail.  If they never fail, great.  If they do fail, they are replaced.



I suppose there's this angle you describe as well: this is turning the argument on its head and seems valid too, to me. Dang, it seems a greyer area than I thought.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 3, 2010)

Yeah, product recalls are a big grey area.

The only time, IMO, it shouldn't be is when safety is concerned, but some companies(car companies in particular) even try to make that a grey area.


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## AsRock (Jun 3, 2010)

newtekie1 said:


> Yeah, product recalls are a big grey area.
> 
> The only time, IMO, it shouldn't be is when safety is concerned, b*ut some companies(car companies in particular) even try to make that a grey area*.



Made me think of FORD lol.  And then it may be cheaper to let people sue you rather than fix all the problem cars..  Even if it could cause deaths.

Well on subject.  These some times covered up right ?.  As i had a chat with ASUS about re doing the thermal paste on my mobo and they told me it would void the warranty.


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## phanbuey (Jun 3, 2010)

i kind of like that look... if I was going for like a STALKER mod i would totally use that mobo... It fits the part.. and it can blow at any minute!  awesome.


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## DannibusX (Jun 3, 2010)

AsRock said:


> Made me think of *Toyota* lol.  And then it may be cheaper to let people sue you rather than fix all the problem cars..  Even if it could cause deaths.
> .



Fixed it for ya.

This is still going on with ASUS boards?  I haven't had this issue at all.


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## erocker (Jun 3, 2010)

Problems are few and far between, you would think you would see more people on various forums showing off their rusty chokes, but that isn't the case. If you do have a mobo with these chokes, Asus is taking care of it. Scandal? No, I don't think so.


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## newtekie1 (Jun 3, 2010)

DannibusX said:


> Fixed it for ya.
> 
> This is still going on with ASUS boards?  I haven't had this issue at all.



Toyota is just the latest, pretty much every car manufacturer has been down the road of either issueing a recall or letting people die and decided the money they would put out in losses from lawsuites would be less then the money they would put out in losses to issue the recall so they didn't do the recall.  And in all honesty they had good reason to suspect it was something else causing the problem, look at the ages of the affected:



> here are the reported ages of all 24 of the fatal Toyota (TM) cases:
> 
> 60, 61, 63, 66, 68, 71, 72, 72, 77, 79, 83, 85, 89



Not a single person under 60!  I'd probably investigate the possibility of driver error first too if I was in Toyota's shoes...



erocker said:


> Problems are few and far between, you would think you would see more people on various forums showing off their rusty chokes, but that isn't the case. If you do have a mobo with these chokes, Asus is taking care of it. Scandal? No, I don't think so.



Exactly, it is a small number of boards that used a shipment of bad chokes that no one knew were bad until months after the boards were manufactured and packaged up.


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## qubit (Jun 3, 2010)

erocker said:


> Problems are few and far between, you would think you would see more people on various forums showing off their rusty chokes, but that isn't the case. If you do have a mobo with these chokes, Asus is taking care of it. *Scandal? No, I don't think so. *



Ya know, I should work for a big tabloid newspaper - I'm sure I'd make a great sensationalist.  To be fair I really did think of it as a scandal when I wrote that though. Newtekie has managed to make it all comfortably less clear cut, bless. And he's got a point.

And whoever renamed my thread to _Rusty chokes on Asus mobo_ should get a medal. It's just priceless and the double meaning still cracks me up now. 



NdMk2o1o said:


> RIP Rusty



See what I mean?


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## erocker (Jun 3, 2010)

qubit said:


> And whoever renamed my thread to _Rusty chokes on Asus mobo_ should get a medal. It's just priceless and the double meaning still cracks me up now.



Lol, I had to double-check but you're welcome.


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## Wile E (Jun 4, 2010)

I'm gonna miss Rusty. He was a good damn dog.


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## qubit (Jun 4, 2010)

Wile E said:


> I'm gonna miss Rusty. He was a good damn dog.



Yes, yes he was a great little dog.  I remember how he used to love chewing on just about _anything_ when you weren't looking and one had to be so careful to put things out of his reach. 

Then that horrible, horrible* erocker* left that broken Asus micro ATX motherboard lying around - on the floor of all places! And it was on purpose too - he hinted as much!!! I knew he never liked that dog.  Of course, no way could poor Rusty resist it and started chewing on it. He was actually doing quite well for a while and had swallowed several choice components, such as capacitors and connectors and had even had a bit of a go at the CPU socket.

However, when Rusty got to those infamous rusty chokes, they just didn't go down too well at all. The vet found a couple stuck in his throat and said it was the - shock! - _rust_ that stopped them sliding down easily. 

So there you have it, Rusty choked on rusty chokes.

Damn you *erocker!*

And yes Newtekie1, I told you they were a scandal.


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## Laurijan (Jun 4, 2010)

qubit said:


> So there you have it, Rusty choked on rusty chokes.



lol


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