# How good is this PSU Brand Name Cougar MX-Series MX650 650W PSU ATX12V 80+



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 23, 2020)

Hello there. I have been looking for a good decent PSU to buy. What anyone know this couger brand PSU. Cougar MX-Series MX650 650W PSU ATX12V 80+ 

Thanks


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## hat (Feb 23, 2020)

Can't find any info on that PSU specifically. Stay away.

We can recommend a better unit given a budget...


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 23, 2020)

hat said:


> Can't find any info on that PSU specifically. Stay away.
> 
> We can recommend a better unit given a budget...


Ok I'll keep looking for another one better. 
Thanks.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 23, 2020)

Seasonic or Superflower Only


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## Kissamies (Feb 23, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Seasonic or Superflower Only


Seasonic is always a hella solid choice. Can't complain.


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## hat (Feb 23, 2020)

There's more than Seasonic out there, though. If you look in my specs, you'll find I trusted an FSP unit to run a rig with an overclocked 2600k and two GTX1070s... and it mines 24/7... 
There's also Silverstone, Antec, Corsair, and Evga that might be worth considering, just to name a few.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 23, 2020)

hat said:


> There's more than Seasonic out there, though. If you look in my specs, you'll find I trusted an FSP unit to run a rig with an overclocked 2600k and two GTX1070s... and it mines 24/7...
> There's also Silverstone, Antec, Corsair, and Evga that might be worth considering, just to name a few.



Its about the OEM, to end confusion I recommend those 2 since not everyone does research and this person keeps on looking at weird units.


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 23, 2020)

hat said:


> Can't find any info on that PSU specifically. Stay away.
> 
> We can recommend a better unit given a budget...


Ok what about the OCZ ModXStream-Pro 600W Modular SLI Power Supply Active PFC PSU OCZ600MXSP new one 
 I wanted the thermalake PSU or the seasonic but they sold out and others are to pricey for me. 160-200 us dollars.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 23, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Ok what about the OCZ ModXStream-Pro 600W Modular SLI Power Supply Active PFC PSU OCZ600MXSP new one
> I wanted the thermalake PSU or the seasonic but they sold out and others are to pricey for me. 160-200 us dollars.



Start saving then



eidairaman1 said:


> Start saving then



That psu is a Sirfa which are utter Garbage, stay away unless if you like  to damage your pc.


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## Kissamies (Feb 23, 2020)

What PSU are you thinking if it's so expensive? A good 550-650W is usually around 100 USD/EUR.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 23, 2020)

Here is a recommendation, get it.






						Amazon.com: EVGA 750 N1, 750W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0750-L1: Computers & Accessories
					

Buy EVGA 750 N1, 750W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0750-L1: Internal Power Supplies - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 23, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Start saving then
> 
> 
> 
> That psu is a Sirfa which are utter Garbage, stay away unless if you like  to damage your pc.


Thermaltake 600W WATT TTP-0600P-W POWER SUPPLY found and have the funds to pay for it it's 80+ bronze


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## Kissamies (Feb 23, 2020)

Thermalfake PSUs (like almost all of their products) are usually kinda meh. I wouldn't waste my money on that.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 23, 2020)

Its about the OEM


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## E-Bear (Feb 23, 2020)

What about the CoolerMaster silencer ?

Look at that list





						[OLD] PSU Tier List 3.0 (Legacy)
					

Note: The PSU Tier List has been migrated to a new thread: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1116640-psu-tier-list-40-rev-10/ *** Welcome to the brand new PSU Tier List! Worked on, by @Stefan Payne, @LukeSavenije, and myself. This is a complete overhaul. We'd recommend that if you have a gamin...




					linustechtips.com


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## FreedomEclipse (Feb 23, 2020)

Cougar takes alot of their business from HEC. HEC make a lot of Cougars 80+ Gold & also 80+ Bronze units. HEC also make 80+ Bronze units for Be Quiet.

90% sure its gonna be an HEC if not then an Andyson -- both are fairly solid. Not the best in the world but pretty solid.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 23, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Here is a recommendation, get it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a good PSU.


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## 64K (Feb 23, 2020)

You're probably on a tight budget.

Do you really need a 600 watt PSU?

What GPU and CPU are you using?

Do you plan to upgrade to a different GPU during the life of this PSU?

What store do you buy from and what is your budget so that the community can pick out a quality PSU that suits your needs?


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## PooPipeBoy (Feb 23, 2020)

People get scared away from buying uncommon PSU brands, but I've had a few of them and haven't had a bad experience yet. The Zalman 700W silver-rated PSU in my main system has been going strong for 6 years, and before that I had an Aywun Megapower 750W bronze-rated PSU that I've still got in one of my backup systems.


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## FreedomEclipse (Feb 23, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> People get scared away from buying uncommon PSU brands, but I've had a few of them and haven't had a bad experience yet. The Zalman 700W silver-rated PSU in my main system has been going strong for 6 years, and before that I had an Aywun Megapower 750W bronze-rated PSU that I've still got in one of my backup systems.



Zalman was known for making some strong power supplies back in the day. AFAIK they are still in the PSU business but in fairly limited capacity. Most of their products are mainly made for Asian markets while outside regions will only see very limited supply. They are having a hard time getting back into the market as its dominated by so many players that have been in the game for longer and already built their empire. This wouldnt of happened if their parent company tried throw them under the bus when they were going bust but Zalman had to scale back on 90% of the stuff they did.


As for the Aywun. Ive read enough about them to know that youre probably getting 60-70% of the quoted specs and efficiency ratings for the price paid for it, Even when its brand new and freshly unboxed.

People have every reason to be scared away and go with a tried, tested and highly reviewed/recommended brand over an unknown brand which probably only a quarter of the world has heard about and no reviews or information exists other than people on forums telling other people they are bad.

The power supply is the #1 most important thing in your system. Because if that dies, then so could everything else thats hooked up to it because it fries. Electricity isnt anybody's friend. If a power supply cant keep electricity regulated and under control. Then there will be a loud bang and lots of black smoke, maybe even a small fire which then also results in a lot of stress and a costly bill or repairs or replacement parts.


Imagine Propping up your system with a $1300 graphics card and $500 CPU with a $50 aliexpress power supply. Just because it says 750w Bronze doesnt mean anything. Any random joe at home can print out a fancy sticker that says 750w and a load of random specs and slap it on the side of a power supply.


There are certain situations where it might not matter though... For instance if youre building a low powered office rig or machine to do nothing but web browse and media streaming. Because at that point youre not really stressing the power supply.


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## dirtyferret (Feb 23, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Seasonic or Superflower Only











FreedomEclipse said:


> Cougar takes alot of their business from HEC. HEC make a lot of Cougars 80+ Gold & also 80+ Bronze units. HEC also make 80+ Bronze units for Be Quiet.
> 
> 90% sure its gonna be an HEC if not then an Andyson -- both are fairly solid. Not the best in the world but pretty solid.


Cougar is part of the HEC group



eidairaman1 said:


> Its about the OEM, to end confusion I recommend those 2 since not everyone does research and this person keeps on looking at weird units.


Probably because they are not in the north American market and have limited choices for overpriced PSU.



eidairaman1 said:


> Its about the OEM


Yet you previously recommended a seasonic psu in another thread where seasonic wasn't the oem.  You are simply fan boy recommending units and with a clear lack of understanding what makes a good psu from a bad psu, that fails to help any OP


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 23, 2020)

64K said:


> You're probably on a tight budget.
> 
> Do you really need a 600 watt PSU?
> 
> ...


Hi. Yes I'm on tight budget with tight income due to disability. I recently upgraded the GPU about 43 days ago from a unbranded graphic card GTX Nidvia 1050ti which is really 550ti Chip unfortunately. I've gotten scammed on the card. So I bought a used XFX AMD RX 570 manufacturer in 2017 which only need a fan replacement, I've already done it this past Thursday. I've bought a manufactured failed voltage PSU Cooler Master Rs-500-PCAR. So I've been told that this is junk because of its doesn't hold up it's standards. Which is very true. So I've been looking for a decent Psu Used or new like seasonic or thermalake as told to get. It's first time building from scratch a pc I'm only tinker PCs but never build one before until now.. I'm very mechanical incline from pervious occupation in electrical and engines. I'm not too familiar best products names only a very few Im aware of. I usually get my PC hardware from AliExpress, Newegg or eBay. I have account with Amazon but I don't really like Amazon.

I'm using a CPU Unlockable and overclockable FX-4300 3.8ghz turbo max MHz in Overclock is 4400 - 4600mhz I've been using in the past. Its a 95 Watts Vishera. It pretty good product for a 4 core better than the non FX CPU that I had in it before. But I'm looking for upgrade soon or later in 8 core FX. I have a Gigabyte 970a-D3sp about 50 Watts to run it.


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## EarthDog (Feb 23, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Here is a recommendation, get it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





lexluthermiester said:


> This is a good PSU.


Is it? There seems to better options out there, no?



> SUMMARY
> 
> Given the fact that this unit is an old group regulated design priced to compete with units bearing actual DC to DC conversion for the minor outputs, *I’m going to go ahead and suggest that you get something a little more useful to modern systems. Like most power supplies of this ilk, the design is a relic of times gone by that is in no way optimal for modern computing needs. *It’s not quite the poor performer that other recently tested units were, *but it’s far from a sensible purchase here toward the end of 2018. I mean, look… EVGA themselves have better units for less money than this one. Shouldn’t that tell you something?*
> 
> ...








						EVGA 750N1 750W Power Supply – Page 6 – JonnyGURU.com
					






					www.jonnyguru.com
				





EDIT: Patriot, what is your budget man?


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## dirtyferret (Feb 23, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Is it? There seems to better options out there, no?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's also out of stock for a month, not that I would recommend it if it were in stock


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 23, 2020)

E-Bear said:


> What about the CoolerMaster silencer ?
> 
> Look at that list
> 
> ...


I'll look at it thank you


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## dirtyferret (Feb 23, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> I'll look at it thank you


That list is a joke and has been ripped apart multiple times on jonnygurus forums as do most PSU lists.  64k asked a question which you have yet to answer.

What are you looking to power?
Any future upgrades that will require more power?
What is your budget?
Where do you shop? Specific web store would help.


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 23, 2020)

How about a tx550m ?






						Corsair TX550M (2017) Chroma Review @TweakPC
					

https://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/corsair_tx550m/s01.php    Translate: Klick



					www.jonnyguru.com


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## dirtyferret (Feb 23, 2020)

cucker tarlson said:


> How about a tx550m ?


Good unit and Newegg used to sell them for $39 after MIR.  Haven't seen that sale in a while or too many of those units in general.  I think Corsair is retiring them for one of the dozen lines they have that start with "RM"


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 23, 2020)

As I said before grab the psu from the link I suggested earlier, i did a spec check and it meets the demands of your system.


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## cucker tarlson (Feb 23, 2020)

imo grab this



			https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079HGL413?tag=pcpapi-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1
		


$90 for an excellent quality psu,super quiet,10 year warranty.
4.6 out of 5.0 from 2000 ratings.

saving a couple of bucks on a component that is supposed to power the whole pc for a decade is beyond silly.


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## E-Bear (Feb 23, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> I'll look at it thank you


Look lower on that page you also have link for version 4.0 of that chart.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Feb 23, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Seasonic or Superflower Only


CWT ?


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## dirtyferret (Feb 23, 2020)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> CWT ?


CWT, Delta, flextronics all make excellent PSUs.  You then have FSP, enhance, great Wall among others that have quality units out there as well.


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## hat (Feb 23, 2020)

FSP has been known as a reputable brand for a long time. I got one recently, it's doing quite well.


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## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Feb 23, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> CWT, Delta, flextronics all make excellent PSUs.  You then have FSP, enhance, great Wall among others that have quality units out there as well.


I know CWT units have been impressing the hell out of Tom's hardware Aris Mpitziopoulos in the past few years, he even stated that the gold rated category of power supplies is being dominated by Channel Well Technology and Seasonic.

I can understand when people always recommend Seasonic or Superflower, but when its as far as its _the only right choice  _then i have a problem with that as it comes out as fanboy syndrome


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## dirtyferret (Feb 24, 2020)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> I know CWT units have been impressing the hell out of Tom's hardware Aris Mpitziopoulos in the past few years, he even stated that the gold rated category of power supplies is being dominated by Channel Well Technology and Seasonic.
> 
> I can understand when people always recommend Seasonic or Superflower, but when its as far as its _the only right choice  _then i have a problem with that as it comes out as fanboy syndrome


Channel well has been around for almost three decades.  They make PSU for everyone, laptops, gigabyte, zalman, Corsair, among others.  They are bigger then seasonic and superflower combined.  People give them crap because they make a wide range of PSU from cheap PSU to quality units but that's like saying the Intel 9900k is junk because the Celeron processor is mediocre compared to modern processors.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 24, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Is it? There seems to better options out there, no?


Sure it is. I've never had a problem with EVGA PSUs.



EarthDog said:


> EVGA 750N1 750W Power Supply – Page 6 – JonnyGURU.com
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting review. I don't agree with a few of their conclusions. So do you have a suggestion for a better unit?


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## PooPipeBoy (Feb 24, 2020)

FreedomEclipse said:


> Zalman was known for making some strong power supplies back in the day. AFAIK they are still in the PSU business but in fairly limited capacity. Most of their products are mainly made for Asian markets while outside regions will only see very limited supply. They are having a hard time getting back into the market as its dominated by so many players that have been in the game for longer and already built their empire. This wouldnt of happened if their parent company tried throw them under the bus when they were going bust but Zalman had to scale back on 90% of the stuff they did.
> 
> As for the Aywun. Ive read enough about them to know that youre probably getting 60-70% of the quoted specs and efficiency ratings for the price paid for it, Even when its brand new and freshly unboxed.
> 
> ...



I can't help but sense there's a lot of exaggeration going on here.

Never heard of power supplies exploding and creating small fires, particularly when there's electrical components called "fuses" that are designed to pop way before any fireworks start happening. Lightning is more likely to cause serious damage/shorts/fires than overloading, but again there's plenty of fuse and circuit breaking technology these days to prevent that.

I've also never heard of anyone putting a $1300 graphics card on a $50 power supply, that's pretty absurd and out of context. I could also remark a similar point: What's stopping Corsair from releasing a $1000 power supply that blows up with 100 watts of load? Nobody can disagree with me that it's a bad idea in THIS situation to buy Corsair power supplies. Doesn't matter if this scenario is highly improbable, idealised and exaggerated, but hey, at least I've successfully placed Corsair in a bad light and put up an indisputable argument to avoid them. See what I mean? Preposterous.

Just in case anyone starts raging, I actually don't have negative opinions of Corsair. Quite the opposite. Especially the RM-series units are good quality and have good features, they're expensive but I bought an RM550 for someone else and thought it was nice. That one's been running for four years and counting.

All I'm saying is that it's not as simple as "common = good and uncommon = bad", because at least from my own _experience_ that idea hasn't held any water. Buyers should definitely be cautious when buying uncommon brands, but they should also be cautious when buying ANY brand! Any brand is capable of making a terrible product! You never know for sure where the next lemon will be coming from. As they say, buyer beware.


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## Frick (Feb 24, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Seasonic or Superflower Only



Blergh herg this may have been adressed but ... Just no. This is FUD, plain and simple.


PooPipeBoy said:


> I can't help but sense there's a lot of exaggeration going on here.
> 
> Never heard of power supplies exploding and creating small fires, particularly when there's electrical components called "fuses" that are designed to pop way before any fireworks start happening. Lightning is more likely to cause serious damage/shorts/fires than overloading, but again there's plenty of fuse and circuit breaking technology these days to prevent that.



Quick note, this can definitely happen still. It isn't likely to happen with brand name units (even the super low end units) but random 700W PSUs you buy off ebay for $15? They can be properly dangerous, and there are still plenty of them around.


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## PooPipeBoy (Feb 24, 2020)

Frick said:


> Quick note, this can definitely happen still. It isn't likely to happen with brand name units (even the super low end units) but random 700W PSUs you buy off ebay for $15? They can be properly dangerous, and there are still plenty of them around.



Well again, no shit. You wouldn't get botox in a remote Indian village where they inject your buttocks with cooking oil, would you?


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 24, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Never heard of power supplies exploding and creating small fires, particularly when there's electrical components called "fuses" that are designed to pop way before any fireworks start happening.


I can confirm that it does happen. The cause is not always obvious either.


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## EarthDog (Feb 24, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> I don't agree with a few of their conclusions


We'll leave it up to the experts and proper testing versus what we've simply plugged in and used to pass judgement. While I'm sure it will be fine that N series is a bit sketchy according to multiple reputable reviews. 

I'm waiting for the OP to list a budget. Did I miss it?


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 24, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> I'm waiting for the OP to list a budget. Did I miss it?


If so, I missed it too.


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## Frick (Feb 24, 2020)

PooPipeBoy said:


> Well again, no shit. You wouldn't get botox in a remote Indian village where they inject your buttocks with cooking oil, would you?



i wouldn't, but others would. People still buy fake Fermi GPUs from ebay.


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## dirtyferret (Feb 24, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> We'll leave it up to the experts and proper testing versus what we've simply plugged in and used to pass judgement. While I'm sure it will be fine that N series is a bit sketchy according to multiple reputable reviews.
> 
> I'm waiting for the OP to list a budget. Did I miss it?





lexluthermiester said:


> If so, I missed it too.


I think the OP is just fishing for a unicorn part (extremely cheap and extremely good)



PooPipeBoy said:


> Never heard of power supplies exploding and creating small fires, particularly when there's electrical components called "fuses" that are designed to pop way before any fireworks start happening.



Diablotek says "hold my beer" with the best PSU customer review ever (most are similar as well)

_When the PS went, it also took most of the Mother Board it was attached to with it.  After replacing it with a different PS, the PS2 Keyboard & Mouse controller is fried, as is the Internal Network Card.  I'm thankful that it did not take the customers network switches/router too.  Did I mention the poor receptionist is going to be sending me her laundry bill?  Apparently it was quite loud and 'fireworky' (her word) when it blew._







						Amazon.com: Diablotek DA Series 350-Watt ATX Power Supply PSDA350: Electronics
					

Amazon.com: Diablotek DA Series 350-Watt ATX Power Supply PSDA350: Electronics



					www.amazon.com
				






lexluthermiester said:


> This is a good PSU.



1. Price is too good to be true, it's $35 after MIR on newegg so even cheaper there
2. plenty of amps on the 12v rail but too low for a 750w unit so it's group regulated when every modern unit has been DC-DC for at least a decade.
3. two year warranty tells me cheap fan and parts
4. it's only rated to 25c so I doubt you can even get 750w out of it at 45c and if you do the efficiency has to be crazy bad as I see no 80 plus rating on this unit



lexluthermiester said:


> Sure it is. I've never had a problem with EVGA PSUs.
> 
> 
> Interesting review. I don't agree with a few of their conclusions. So do you have a suggestion for a better unit?



I think OK-wolf was generous with his reviews, those secondary caps are junk and will go on anyone pushing that unit past warranty.  You would be better off with a CX550 that provides full power for bronze efficiency at 40c.  

Evga has many good units but they don't get enough crap for their junk units.  The fact that it seems like every other unit starts with a "G" only makes things more confusing for the market.  

I have never had a single issue with Corsair unit but that doesn't mean their first run of CX units were not bad PSU and the second version was hardly better.  It took them until the third version (with panasonic main caps) to get a solid budget unit out.  Ive also had more issues with Seasonic units then any other oem yet that doesn't mean Seasonic doesn't make great units.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 24, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> I think the OP is just fishing for a unicorn part (extremely cheap and extremely good)


Perhaps.


dirtyferret said:


> 1. Price is too good to be true, it's $35 after MIR on newegg so even cheaper there
> 2. plenty of amps on the 12v rail but too low for a 750w unit so it's group regulated when every modern unit has been DC-DC for at least a decade.
> 3. two year warranty tells me cheap fan and parts
> 4. it's only rated to 25c so I doubt you can even get 750w out of it at 45c and if you do the efficiency has to be crazy bad as I see no 80 plus rating on this unit


1. They might be clearing out overstock or getting ready to replace it with a newer model.
2. Let's see a schematic.
3. Most economy/budget models have a 1 year, so 2 years says EVGA has some confidence in their offering. And I'm cool with that.
4. Please review EVGA's spec page. It states "750W @ +25C". Amazon and Newegg misquote that spec. https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=100-N1-0750-L1


dirtyferret said:


> I think OK-wolf was generous with his reviews


Let's agree to disagree.


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## EarthDog (Feb 24, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> 1. They might be clearing out overstock or getting ready to replace it with a newer model
> 2. Let's see a schematic.
> 3. Most economy/budget models have a 1 year, so 2 years says EVGA has some confidence in their offering. And I'm cool with that.
> 4. Please review EVGA's spec page. It states "750W @ +25C". Amazon and Newegg misquote that spec.


2. What would that tell you? Look at the specifications and look at the amperage on modern PSUs. You'll find most are just a few watts under the label rating on the 12V rail. Surely what is listed is 'enough' and not a big issue, but it isn't what typical modern, quality, 750W PSUs are able to output.
3. Most name brands have 3 year warrantys, no? Corsair CX is three years. Using that thinking, Corsair has more confidence in their less expensive CX line than Evga does with that N series...
4. 25C is nothing. My room IS that warm in the summer (22C now)... 40C+ rating is what you want to see...


dirtyferret said:


> I think OK-wolf was generous with his reviews,


Agreed... in most cases the test units get the benefit of the doubt. If he says it's trash or great, it is.



lexluthermiester said:


> Let's agree to disagree.


You are of course welcome to do this, however, can you support why you feel this way with some details? On one hand, we have a known expert in the field who tested the equipment stating his findings, while OTOH, we have a random forum member who says otherwise without support. Nobody is perfect, OW is human, but without you supporting your assertion, we're left believing the expert until we hear otherwise. So, if you say its a good PSU and disagree, you should really say WHY you actually disagree... 

Again, it will work, but there are better units out there for less. As soon as the OP returns and posts a budget, we can dig in a bit deeper. But, that unit isn't "good" according to experts.


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## dirtyferret (Feb 24, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Perhaps.
> 
> 1. They might be clearing out overstock or getting ready to replace it with a newer model
> 2. Let's see a schematic.
> ...



1. maybe and lets hope they do replace it with a better model.  Frankly I think their FSP built GD line is better performance for the price
2. the JG review earthdog linked confirms it as do the 12v/5v coil and 3.3v coil (Aris description on how to spot group regulated)
_"But make no mistake… it’s still group regulated, it’s still obsolete technology, and it still isn’t well suited to modern builds"_





3. Maybe several years ago but with Corsair's CX line, Evga B3, and Seasonic S12iii all doing bronze @ 40c and five years I would personally not recommend a two year warranty 25c unit to anyone especially if you are building a PC that really needs a 750w unit, as very few do.
4. this is what the evga spec sheet states


Operating Temperature0° to 25° C
I think OK-wolf says it best in his review.


_"can do 750 watts at only 25 degrees? Seriously? That’s a marketing point to you, EVGA? Quite frankly, it’s useless to me. To be brutally blunt, I often see temperatures higher than that in cold testing, where the power supply is sitting out in the open air. Your chances of seeing that number at the power supply in a case is really slim… it would basically have to be on the bottom of the case, pulling from the air underneath, in a room with a low ambient temperature to start with."_

And it showed in hot box testing;
_"Voltage regulation was beyond mediocre with an average of 11.2% in the hot box, so 2.5 points will come off there"_

I respect your opinion, I just don't share it on this product.


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## DeathtoGnomes (Feb 24, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Seasonic or Superflower Only


inb4 the EVGA reference ! 

Just a reminder: You get what you pay for. So if you get lucky, you got real lucky.


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## dirtyferret (Feb 24, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> 3. Most name brands have 3 year warrantys, no? Corsair CX is three years. Using that thinking, Corsair has more confidence in their less



CX is up to five years, even their ultra budget VS line (great for desktops but you can do better for gaming) is 80 plus at 30c with a three year warranty.


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## lexluthermiester (Feb 24, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> it’s still group regulated


There is nothing wrong with that method of circuitry in a PSU. It's a well proven and solid way of delivering power.


dirtyferret said:


> it’s still obsolete technology


Opinion, nothing more.


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## EarthDog (Feb 24, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> CX is up to five years, even their ultra budget VS line (great for desktops but you can do better for gaming) is 80 plus at 30c with a three year warranty.











						Corsair Limited Warranty
					

This warranty applies to all Corsair products except Corsair PC gaming systems. You can find warranties for PC gaming systems on the Corsair Systems Warranty page.  How to Make a Warranty Claim Ove...




					help.corsair.com


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 24, 2020)

DeathtoGnomes said:


> inb4 the EVGA reference !
> 
> Just a reminder: You get what you pay for. So if you get lucky, you got real lucky.



Yeah considering not all EVGA are Seasonic based, some are CWT/HEC...


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 24, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Again, it will work, but there are better units out there for less. As soon as the OP returns and posts a budget, we can dig in a bit deeper. But, that unit isn't "good" according to experts.



It will work when you are pulling 250-300w while gaming which covers the majority of people.

start of rant
Even with a Intel Core i7-7820X @ 4.3GHz, the RTX 2080 you are at 400w while gaming.  Here's an issue I saw on another thread where someone was looking at a 550w unit and some nitwit (I don't recall who) said you should look at a 1000w unit to "future-proof".  Someone is going to see 750w on that evga and bypass a solid 650w unit because of that higher number on the EVGA so they can "future-proof" while needing to pull 400w of power.  That amount of power is going to generate a lot of heat and we know the EVGA goes out of spec at high heat (and my guess only peaks at 750w) and with its mediocre main cap, junk secondary caps, no overtemp protection (according to JG)and a fan that won't last more then two years; the buyer will be shopping for a new PSU sooner rather then later (and lest hope its the only new thing they will need to shop for).

Meanwhile the solid 650w stays within spec at even 45c, can maintain a constant 650w in spec and even peak to 725w at 40c, has proper protection, better caps and a better fan yet gets bypassed because it has the smaller number.  Sure it may be loud (compared to a quality unit) but it will work and it will last.

From my experience people tend to stick in the neighborhood of their power demands.  If your last two video cards have been the GTX 660ti and GTX 960, it's doubtful you are breaking the bank for a RTX 2080ti.  If you want to future proof, buy a better PSU (instead of 550w bronze w/ 3-5 warranty get a gold/platinum 550w with 7+ year warranty) rather then a unit with a larger meaningless number on it.

end of rant



EarthDog said:


> Corsair Limited Warranty
> 
> 
> This warranty applies to all Corsair products except Corsair PC gaming systems. You can find warranties for PC gaming systems on the Corsair Systems Warranty page.  How to Make a Warranty Claim Ove...
> ...


CX and CX-M Series PSU Models:

Wattages of 400W, 430W, 500W, and 600W have a 3-year warranty
Wattages of 450W, 550W, 650W, 750W, and 850W have a 5-year warranty
the 400w, 430w, 500w, and 600w have all been replaced with the 450w-850w units.  You are correct if you are able to find one of the older units, they have the three year warranty (I would not recommend that)



eidairaman1 said:


> Yeah considering not all EVGA are Seasonic based, some are CWT/HEC...


off the top of my head most are superflower with some by FSP and one or two by seasonic that were replaced by superflower.  Some are HEC like the N1 750w in discussion, I don't recall them using channel well (they may for one unit).  Superflower also outsourced some of their evga units to other factories.


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 24, 2020)

Cougar isn't super-awful.
Probably the same as a Thermaltake.
There's more than Seasonic and SuperFlower..
Antec is good, Siverstone...
Pretty sure most Thermaltakes are HEC or CWT.

-Typed from a Rosewill that's really a SuperFlower unit..lol! 
Other PSU is Antec, though.

Hey, I think Cougars are Enermax. Wow, where did that come from?


----------



## FreedomEclipse (Feb 24, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Yeah considering not all EVGA are Seasonic based, some are CWT/HEC...



GQ units were FSP too - or at least they were about a year ago.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 24, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> CX and CX-M Series PSU Models:


Well aware. I liked your previous post and used that link to support it. 

As far as lexy... let it go. The guy has an opinion on a product based on ?????? (he has yet to support his assertion, even when asked)... I'll trust JG and every other reputable review rather than some forum randos without supporting facts.

I'm waiting to hear back from the OP, personally...


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 24, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> I can confirm that it does happen. The cause is not always obvious either.



I just had a SuperFlower 750w unit fail on the 12V GPU rail.
(Rosewill) Pretty sure it was a cheap fan controller that caused it.
Took out mobo.


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 24, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Opinion, nothing more.


True but it is the opinion of one of the top PSU reviewers in the industry so it does carry some weight to it.




lexluthermiester said:


> There is nothing wrong with that method of circuitry in a PSU. It's a well proven and solid way of delivering power.


The former is also an opinion if we are to take OK-wolf's statement as an opinion.  As for the latter I will quote Aris on the issue (below) and simply state while cross load testing may not be real world testing for a lot of people you can't argue from a quantitative analysis that DC-DC do perform better in cross load testing as to ATX rail spec.

_"In this regulation type, +12V and 5V are generated together, and both of them feed their output voltage error to the regulator controller. This means that if the load is unbalanced between the rails, then the regulator controller will have a very hard time retaining a proper regulation. For example, if the load at +12V is high and the load at 5V is low, the voltage on the second rail will be raised, because the regulator controller tries to raise the +12V rail's voltage. But because the latter is tied to 5V, both of them are raised. This is why most group-regulated PSUs fail to keep their rails within +/-5 percent tolerance during cross-load tests. "_



EarthDog said:


> Well aware. I liked your previous post and used that link to support it.
> 
> As far as lexy... let it go. The guy has an opinion on a product based on ?????? (he has yet to support his assertion, even when asked)... I'll trust JG and every other reputable review rather than some forum randos without supporting facts.
> 
> I'm waiting to hear back from the OP, personally...



I like Lex, he's a level headed guy.  I just don't see what he sees in that unit.  As far as the OP goes, I think hes avoiding the question for a reason which is he doesn't like our answers.  The thread probably should be locked as its already going off the rails but at least no one is trolling.



FreedomEclipse said:


> GQ units were FSP too - or at least they were about a year ago.


GQ and GD (same PSU platform as the Be Quiet Pure Power 11 although they market the 12v as split)


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 24, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> Cougar isn't super-awful.
> Probably the same as a Thermaltake.
> There's more than Seasonic and SuperFlower..
> Antec is good, Siverstone...
> ...



Erm its about the OEM, Antec is not an OEM


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 24, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> That list is a joke and has been ripped apart multiple times on jonnygurus forums as do most PSU lists.  64k asked a question which you have yet to answer.
> 
> What are you looking to power?
> Any future upgrades that will require more power?
> ...


XFX AMD RX 570 graphic card . I was thinking about getting a 570 Rx 8 graphic card and have them in both Express Expansion slots in the future


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 24, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> XFX AMD RX 570 graphic card . I was thinking about getting a 570 Rx 8 graphic card and have them in both Express Expansion slots in the future


Again, budget please? What country are you in/where are you buying from? Please answer all questions asked of you.


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 24, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Again, budget please? What country are you in/where are you buying from? Please answer all questions asked of you.


USA Kentucky. Income disabled vet. Budget for any PSU max 70 USA dollars new or used. Min budget 50 bucks


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 24, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> USA Kentucky. Income disabled vet. Budget for any PSU max 70 USA dollars new or used. Min budget 50 bucks


Okay. $50-$70









						Antec Value Power Series VP650 Plus, 650W Non-Modular, 80 PLUS Certified, Thermal Manager, CircuitShield Protection, 120mm Silent Fan with 3-Year Warranty - Newegg.com
					

Buy Antec Value Power Series VP650 Plus, 650W Non-Modular, 80 PLUS Certified, Thermal Manager, CircuitShield Protection, 120mm Silent Fan with 3-Year Warranty with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				












						Seasonic S12III 650 SSR-650GB3 650W 80+ Bronze Power Supply - Newegg.com
					

Buy Seasonic S12III 650 SSR-650GB3 650W 80+ Bronze, ATX12V & EPS12V, Direct Output, Smart & Silent Fan Control, 5 yr Warranty Power Supply with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				












						Open Box: Rosewill HIVE Series, HIVE-650S, 650W Fully Modular Power Supply, 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified, Single +12V Rail, SLI & CrossFire Ready, Black - Newegg.com
					

Buy Open Box: Rosewill HIVE Series, HIVE-650S, 650W Fully Modular Power Supply, 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified, Single +12V Rail, SLI & CrossFire Ready, Black with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




Never good to skimp on a power supply.

Used on ebay:









						ANTEC EARTHWATTS EA-650 PLATINUM 80 PLUS 93% EFFICIENT ATX 12V PSU POWER SUPPLY  | eBay
					

This can reduce your electricity bill up to 25%. In addition, the EA-650 Platinum provides 650W of continuous power. Antec EA-650 PLATINUM Overview. Antec EA-650 PLATINUM Specs. It works on 100 to 240 VAC.



					www.ebay.com


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 24, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> USA Kentucky. Income disabled vet. Budget for any PSU max 70 USA dollars new or used. Min budget 50 bucks


don't go used unless you know the seller

my first choice would be this but its over $70 if you include tax


			https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Bronze-Certified-Modular-CP-9020102-NA/dp/B01B72W0A2/ref=sr_1_1?crid=SRNCEA8NKHLC&keywords=550w+power+supply&qid=1582565040&sprefix=550w%2Caps%2C171&sr=8-1
		


600w unit, bronze and can handle two RX 570 video cards.  Nothing special but better then garbage and will keep you under $70 with tax


			https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-Bronze-Modular-Warranty-110-BQ-0600-K1/dp/B01MTJTO2O/ref=sr_1_6?crid=SRNCEA8NKHLC&keywords=550w+power+supply&qid=1582565040&sprefix=550w%2Caps%2C171&sr=8-6
		


if you can scrape together another $10


			Amazon.com : 550w power supply
		


this unit actually got a decent review and in theory gives you plenty of power while it does break $70 with tax I don't really trust a no-name main cap


			https://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-256-Color-Supply-Warranty-PS-SPR-0700NHFAWU-1/dp/B0754S3TXS/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=4A5LJP50IRYZ&keywords=650w+power+supply&qid=1582564083&sprefix=650w+%2Caps%2C169&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExT05TUUtTNUJOMFlaJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDI0NzEzMVZGUTRNVE5aVDZFViZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODUwMDczMUxVUFJGV1ZEVVZWQiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
		




Schmuckley said:


> Okay. $50-$70
> 
> 
> 
> ...



FYI, that Seasonic S12iii is almost $80 out the door ($78 after tax and shipping), not made by seasonic, and made poorly (look at the customer reviews for that entire series).  You would better off with the S12ii for the exact same amount of money which is made by seasonic but group regulated.


----------



## Solid State Soul ( SSS ) (Feb 24, 2020)

Might i add the new EVGA GD 500W for 60$.
Its 80 plus gold efficiency and 500 watts is plenty enough for a mid-range single GPU build
its also backed by a 5 year warranty and EVGA's excellent customer support









						EVGA 600 GD 100-GD-0600-V1 600 W Power Supply - Newegg.com
					

Buy EVGA 600 GD 100-GD-0600-V1 600 W ATX12V / EPS12V 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Non-Modular Active PFC Power Supply with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 24, 2020)

Solid State Soul ( SSS ) said:


> Might i add the new EVGA GD 500W for 60$.
> Its 80 plus gold efficiency and 500 watts is plenty enough for a mid-range single GPU build
> 
> 
> ...


good find


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 24, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> Okay. $50-$70
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 24, 2020)

Don't be my avatar, Patriot... follow Dirtyferret here.


----------



## lexluthermiester (Feb 25, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> True but it is the opinion of one of the top PSU reviewers in the industry so it does carry some weight to it.


Perhaps, but it is NOT the end all be all of what there is to say, see below.



dirtyferret said:


> The former is also an opinion if we are to take OK-wolf's statement as an opinion.


Except that the functionality of such is not in question as the design works, has been working stably for a long time and will continue to work for a long time. That is a fact. One person calling it "Obsolete" is an opinion, one that should be taken with a generous helping of salt.


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 25, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> That is a fact. One person calling it "Obsolete" is an opinion, one that should be taken with a generous helping of salt.



You can choose to take as much salt as you want with anyone's opinion what you can't deny is the opinion of someone who worked as one of the top professional PSU reviewers in the industry carries more weight then the opinion of you or I.  You also can't deny the opinion of one of the other top PSU reviewers (who also reviews PSU for the very forum you are on) when he states
" _Group regulation is usually used in low-capacity and budget PSUs_ " and "_Independent regulation is used in higher-capacity and performance PSUs_, _where cost reduction isn't the top priority _" especially when you are talking a 750w unit which is not a "low-capacity" unit by any stretch. 

You also can't deny and seem to be avoiding;
this particular unit failed to remain in ATX spec (making it a danger to PC hardware) in the JG hot box test.
the main cap is only rated for 85c and from a mediocre company
the secondary caps are cheap chinese junk
the fan is cheap junk
the PSU is built by a company with a history of cutting corners to meet price point over performance

You want to stand on a soap box and circle the wagons on group regulation power supplies, go for it.  You have nowhere to plant a flag on this PSU in terms of performance or build quality where you can say "at least you have this going for you" other then if you are lucky enough to have this PSU fail on you within two years, evga may send you another one.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 25, 2020)

lexluthermiester said:


> Perhaps, but it is NOT the end all be all of what there is to say, see below.
> 
> 
> Except that the functionality of such is not in question as the design works, has been working stably for a long time and will continue to work for a long time. That is a fact. One person calling it "Obsolete" is an opinion, one that should be taken with a generous helping of salt.


An obsolete design is an obsolete design.  That said it still works, but isnt optimal...and that's the point when I brought it up. A psu was suggested that least two reputable reviewers didnt rate high and doesnt fall into what many would define as a "good" psu. Am I splitting hairs? It's possible... I know it will work. It isnt powmax, apevia, diablotek, etc... I get that. There are just higher quality units passing more difficult testing out there for the same money or less. We've got a decent budget to work with and can get the OP something better is the point. 

Now... for my money...Corsair 650W VS will do the job. It isn't pretty, but is more efficient and also isn't lipstick on a pig like the N1. 

Anyway, OP, you've seen an eyeful in this thread, lol... hopefully you learned something about PSUs. There are great choices here listed by dirrtyf and SSS that will fit your budget and a better choice over that N1.


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> You can choose to take as much salt as you want with anyone's opinion what you can't deny is *the opinion of someone who worked as one of the top professional PSU reviewers in the industry* carries more weight then the opinion of you or I.  You also can't deny the opinion of one of the other top PSU reviewers (who also reviews PSU for the very forum you are on) when he states
> " _Group regulation is usually used in low-capacity and budget PSUs_ " and "_Independent regulation is used in higher-capacity and performance PSUs_, _where cost reduction isn't the top priority _" especially when you are talking a 750w unit which is not a "low-capacity" unit by any stretch.
> 
> You also can't deny and seem to be avoiding;
> ...


Is that Jonnyguru or Phaedrus? Next up is Shilka in my book.

I can pick a PSU myself, due to years of guidance by the above 3.

PS: I've seen Phaedrus give his opinion by taking a sledgehammer to a Diablotek before in a video. 

Cheap bulgity caps, Pah!


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 25, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> Is that Jonnyguru or Phaedrus? Next up is Shilka in my book.



Jeremy Schrag (aka Oklahoma Wolf) who was the lead reviewer for Jonnyguru for years.
Jonny Gerow (aka Jonny Guru) hasn't done a review or been a part of the site that bears his nickname for a least seven years, he works for Corsair, which is probably the last time I can recall a review from Phaedrus.  Doesn't he just post stuff on overclock.net every now and then?  He does clearly know his stuff as well.
I'm not familiar with "Shilka"


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Jeremy Schrag (aka Oklahoma Wolf) who was the lead reviewer for Jonnyguru for years.
> Jonny Gerow (aka Jonny Guru) hasn't done a review or been a part of the site that bears his nickname for a least seven years, he works for Corsair, which is probably the last time I can recall a review from Phaedrus.  Doesn't he just post stuff on overclock.net every now and then?  He does clearly know his stuff as well.
> I'm not familiar with "Shilka"


Shilka knows his stuff. As it so happens, I do too, somewhat.


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 25, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> Shilka knows his stuff. As it so happens, I do too, somewhat.


 to you and Shilka.


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 25, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> An obsolete design is an obsolete design.  That said it still works, but isnt optimal...and that's the point when I brought it up. A psu was suggested that least two reputable reviewers didnt rate high and doesnt fall into what many would define as a "good" psu. Am I splitting hairs? It's possible... I know it will work. It isnt powmax, apevia, diablotek, etc... I get that. There are just higher quality units passing more difficult testing out there for the same money or less. We've got a decent budget to work with and can get the OP something better is the point.
> 
> Now... for my money...Corsair 650W VS will do the job. It isn't pretty, but is more efficient and also isn't lipstick on a pig like the N1.
> 
> Anyway, OP, you've seen an eyeful in this thread, lol... hopefully you learned something about PSUs. There are great choices here listed by dirrtyf and SSS that will fit your budget and a better choice over that N1.


Lol yes I noticed. I wasn't thinking it's was going to be a big debate. But okay. I have learned about from PC case airflow to PSU brands in 4 days then my whole life. I'm glad that I came to techpowerup because I would be ended up getting a whole computer or unnecessary rebuilding the PC system because of my current PSU it is dangerous to use.. So that being said. Im shooting forward that gold or bronze 80-90% efficiency PSU that ferret was showing me links. I even made a new Newegg account since I only purchase with guess account. Yes I have put that 500w gold 90% efficiency in my card for 60$ best price I ever seen which it is in my shopping cart. I also thinking about upgrading my motherboard from Am3+ to the new am4 motherboard maybe sometime this year. 
I definitely going to need help with this new version Am4 motherboard since it's all new to me and the type of CPU that it takes. I'm not too familiar with. 
My current motherboard works great but I like something else that is in AMD Brand-
Thanks for all your help.


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Lol yes I noticed. I wasn't thinking it's was going to be a big debate. But okay. I have learned about from PC case airflow to PSU brands in 4 days then my whole life. I'm glad that I came to techpowerup because I would be ended up getting a whole computer or unnecessary rebuilding the PC system because of my current PSU it is dangerous to use.. So that being said. Im shooting forward that gold or bronze 80-90% efficiency PSU that ferret was showing me links. I even made a new Newegg account since I only purchase with guess account. Yes I have put that 500w gold 90% efficiency in my card for 60$ best price I ever seen which it is in my shopping cart. I also thinking about upgrading my motherboard from Am3+ to the new am4 motherboard maybe sometime this year.
> I definitely going to need help with this new version Am4 motherboard since it's all new to me and the type of CPU that it takes. I'm not too familiar with.
> My current motherboard works great but I like something else that is in AMD Brand-
> Thanks for all your help.


500W seems kinda small. PSUs perform best at 50%-ish load.
You adding a GPU to that?

I damn sure never OC'd anything AM3-3+ on something as small as a 500W PSU. For one thing, an OC'd Thuban gets up to 177+ watts alone (That's normal stuff). Add in a 250-360W Gpu and it spells reboot if you're lucky.
Catastrophic failure if you're not.
Idk what Thubans draw when OC'd with close to 2V, but sure it's much more than 177W. 177w was a 4.2-ish daily type OC with them.

I learned about this stuff the hard way. It all started with an LSP "700w", a 6-core AMD, and a 5850.


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 25, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> 500W seems kinda small. PSUs perform best at 50%-ish load.
> You adding a GPU to that?


Ok I really like big PSU watts because I might want to connect two GPUs to this Am3+ board  or any future upgrade motherboard to Am4 AMD. I thought I might be safe with something with at least 750 or 850 this in case I need extra power to power two GPU, CPU and motherboard it's self. My current gigabyte 970a-DSP3 32 GB ram max-  express 2.0 16x revised 2.0 currently recommended stated wattage uses to operate is 60-75 watts to run it.
My current PSU is worthless Cooler Master RS-500-PCAR Brand design 10 years ago which I've learned on here.  Which I will never buy any Cooler Master Brands ever again since I've seen the database results.
So yeah you're right about wattage uses in all hardware capacity Watts I have almost forgotten about the a Motherboard watts aswell. I have to take that in consideration aswell.


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Ok I really like big PSU watts because I might want to connect two GPUs to this Am3+ board  or any future upgrade motherboard to Am4 AMD. I thought I might be safe with something with at least 750 or 850 this in case I need extra power to power two GPU, CPU and motherboard it's self. My current gigabyte 970a-DSP3 32 GB ram max-  express 2.0 16x revised 2.0 currently recommended stated wattage uses to operate is 60-75 watts to run it.
> My current PSU is worthless Cooler Master RS-500-PCAR Brand design 10 years ago which I've learned on here.  Which I will never buy any Cooler Master Brands ever again since I've seen the database results.


Cooler Master made a really nice 1000w unit a few years back..

750-950w quality is the target range.
650w minimum if it's a quality PSU with a single 12V rail.
What chip do you have in that 970 Giga?


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 25, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> 500W seems kinda small. PSUs perform best at 50%-ish load.


True, however the difference in efficiency is literally up to 3% from like 20% to 100% load... so it really doesn't make a difference. Sizing a PSU at 50% load wastes money. I prefer to sit around 70% or so..



PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Ok I really like big PSU watts because I might want to connect two GPUs to this Am3+


I strongly suggest going single card...I don't recall your CPU, (please create system specs please........), but hopefully you have something halfway modern that isn't AMD to drive 2 GPUs properly (assuming 1080p or 1440p). If you go two GPUs, you don't need to go bigger than 850W.


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

^The days of multi-GPU are just about done.
If you want compatibility: 1 Big card.


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 25, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> True, however the difference in efficiency is literally up to 3% from like 20% to 100% load... so it really doesn't make a difference. Sizing a PSU at 50% load wastes money. I prefer to sit around 70% or so..
> 
> I strongly suggest going single card...I don't recall your CPU, (please create system specs please........), but hopefully you have something halfway modern that isn't AMD to drive 2 GPUs properly (assuming 1080p or 1440p). If you go two GPUs, you don't need to go bigger than 850W.


Well I have Gigabyte Am3+ revised 2.0
6 Raid/Sata 3
Ultra Dual


EarthDog said:


> True, however the difference in efficiency is literally up to 3% from like 20% to 100% load... so it really doesn't make a difference. Sizing a PSU at 50% load wastes money. I prefer to sit around 70% or so..
> 
> I strongly suggest going single card...I don't recall your CPU, (please create system specs please........), but hopefully you have something halfway modern that isn't AMD to drive 2 GPUs properly (assuming 1080p or 1440p). If you go two GPUs, you don't need to go bigger than 850W.


970a-(DSP3) I think it's right on the last 4 

Supports AMD AM3+ FX / AM3 series Processors
GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ Technology
Audio Noise Guard with High Quality Audio Capacitors
GIGABYTE UEFI DualBIOS™
2-way CrossFire™ Support
4 USB 3.0 ports with transfer rates of up to 5Gbps
GIGABYTE On/Off Charge™ for USB devices



To enable AM3+ AMD FX-Series CPU support, please update your motherboard with the most current BIOS found in your motherboard’s download section.
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GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards use high quality Nippon Chemicon ARE series audio capacitors. These professional audio capacitors deliver the highest quality sound resolution and sound expansion to create the most realistic sound effects for user experience.
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Ultra Safe




*GIGABYTE UEFI DualBIOS™*


GIGABYTE motherboards feature GIGABYTE DualBIOS™, an exclusive technology from GIGABYTE that protects arguably one of your PC's most crucial components, the BIOS. GIGABYTE DualBIOS™ means that your motherboard has both a 'Main BIOS' and a 'Backup BIOS', making users protected from BIOS failure due to virus attack, hardware malfunction, improper OC settings or power failure during the update process.

Humidity Protection





Humidity can play havoc on a motherboard's circuitry.GIGABYTE's new Glass Fabric PCB design helps protect against electrical shorts due to humidity by reducing the gaps in spacing between PCB filaments.





Power Failure Protection





GIGABYTE also uses Anti-Surge ICs to protect the motherboard against power surges.




Electrostatic Protection





GIGABYTE motherboards feature High Resistance ICs which help protect the motherboard against electrostatic discharge.





Multi-display support with AMD CrossFire





Flexible graphics capabilities - Up to 2 VGA cards are supported for 2 way AMD CrossFire™ (running at x16, x4 bandwidth), delivering the ultimate in graphics performance for gaming enthusiasts who demand the highest frame rates without compromising on resolution.
GIGABYTE 900 Series Motherboards





The GIGABYTE AMD 900 series motherboard is designed to offer a stable, high-speed platform for delivering amazingly fast data transfer via the GIGABYTE Ultra Durble™ technologies. Featuring the USB3.0 controller, AMD 900 series motherboards allow users to take advantage of super fast USB transfer rates of up to 5Gbps, delivering 10x faster data transfer compared to USB 2.0. Utilizing the industry's first Serial ATA Revision 3.0 solution via AMD SB950 chipset, GIGABYTE AMD 900 series motherboards provide native 6 ports of next generation high speed data storage devices support with data transfer speeds of up to 6 Gbps. The AMD 900 series motherboards introduce a unique hardware design with lower resistance fuses for ensuring lower voltage drops and providing more stable and plentiful power delivery.
On/Off Charge Technology





GIGABYTE On/Off Charge technology allows you to charge your iPhone, iPad and iPod Touch regardless of whether your PC is on, in standby mode or even off. A derivative of GIGABYTE's highly acclaimed 3x USB Power feature, On/Off Charge enables devices to draw more current from GIGABYTE motherboard USB ports than standard USB ports allow, so that charging from your PC can be as fast as with a charger...more
*Due to certain mobile phone limitations, users may need to connect the mobile phone to their PC before the PC enters S4/S5 mode to enable a quick charge from non On/Off Charge USB ports. Charging results may vary by model.
*Whether to support 3X USB power design, it may vary by models.



ErP Lot 6 support





The ErP (also known as Energy-Related Products Directive) is part of the European Union's environmental regulations policy. It is based on concern for the environmental as the proliferation of electronic devices continues, and how to improve energy efficiency for a better and greener life. GIGABYTE supports ErP and produces motherboards that help you effectively improve system efficiency.
* The entire materials provided herein are for reference only. GIGABYTE reserves the right to modify or revise the content at anytime without prior notice.
* Advertised performance is based on maximum theoretical interface values from respective Chipset vendors or organization who defined the interface specification. Actual performance may vary by system configuration.
* All trademarks and logos are the properties of their respective holders.
* Due to standard PC architecture, a certain amount of memory is reserved for system usage and therefore the actual memory size is less than the stated amount.


----------



## R2DSF (Feb 25, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Cougar MX-Series MX650 650W PSU ATX12V 80+


Cheap shit from Channel Well Technology based on asymmetrical half-bridge with no saturation control, shitty ferromagnetic stabilizing system and so. 

If you want budget power suply take a look at Chieftec Core series.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 25, 2020)

R2DSF said:


> Cheap shit from Channel Well Technology based on asymmetrical half-bridge with no saturation control, shitty ferromagnetic stabilizing system and so.
> 
> If you want budget power suply take a look at Chieftec Core series.


Don't mind other 83 posts...  lololol





> Gigabyte Am3+ revised 2.0


The motherboard isn't terribly relevant here, bud. 

What CPU do you have in that thing? I can see its an old AMD... and, as said above you really don't want to try to push multi-GPU with that CPU........and it's dieing in general...


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Well I have Gigabyte Am3+ revised 2.0
> 6 Raid/Sata 3
> Ultra Dual
> 
> ...


4+1 phase power? Hope you ain't running no Bulldozer on that. I wouldn't risk trying to OC a Thuban with that board. No sir!
I know a few lower-tier Asus boards I would, and CHV, but not that! That's a dual-triple-quad only board there.
Compare that to my (possibly older?)
Amd board:










Notice the moar chokes to the left of the socket there..these are what keep your board from 'sploding.
Sometimes..


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## R2DSF (Feb 25, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> 4+1 phase power? Hope you ain't running no Bulldozer on that.


This board runs oc'ed fx8350 just fine. Cpu runs at 4.45GHz with 2.65GHz CPU/NB, 2.65GHz HT and Dual-DDR3 2400 RAM 9-9-9-25


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 25, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> 4+1 phase power? Hope you ain't running no Bulldozer on that.
> 
> View attachment 145933


No but I was thinking about it. But what's wrong with bulldozer. I'm currently using FX 4300 turbo 4.0
AMD FX 4-Core Black Edition FX-4300
4 Cores - 3800 MHz - 95 watts currently Unlocked and Overclock at 4400 mhz


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## Assimilator (Feb 25, 2020)

R2DSF said:


> This board runs oc'ed fx8350 just fine. Cpu runs at 4.45GHz with 2.65GHz CPU/NB, 2.65GHz HT and Dual-DDR3 2400 RAM 9-9-9-25



I'm extremely impressed it hasn't melted yet. But then again you are in Russia


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## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> No but I was thinking about it. But what's wrong with bulldozer. I'm currently using FX 4300 turbo 4.0
> AMD FX 4-Core Black Edition FX-4300
> 4 Cores - 3800 MHz - 95 watts currently Unlocked and Overclock at 4400 mhz


A) Stop thinking about Bulldozer on that board.

B) FX-4300 is probably OK on it.

I have run exactly 1 FX chip..lemme see if I can find it..






						CPU-Z Validator 3.1
					

CPU-Z Validation Checker (by canardpc.com)



					valid.x86.fr
				




That was on a Saberfoot, had a couple of those.

Foot, toof, whatever.


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 25, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> I'm extremely impressed it hasn't melted yet. But then again you are in Russia


It military grade PCB design motherboard according to website and some background research. Gold capacitors are the best quality then any capacitors out there on the market. I tried Overclock at 4600 MHz and Works ok but not at 4700 with this FX 4300 it freezes up.


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## EarthDog (Feb 25, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> No but I was thinking about it. But what's wrong with bulldozer. I'm currently using FX 4300 turbo 4.0
> AMD FX 4-Core Black Edition FX-4300
> 4 Cores - 3800 MHz - 95 watts currently Unlocked and Overclock at 4400 mhz


Its slow... holds back gaming at 1080p... but if you reach 60 fps, that is all you need. But, its old, was slow then and really slow now... but it will do. 

If you are overclocking on that thing... I'd suggest spot cooling the VRM and/or putting heat sinks on it. Buy yes, it has a paltry VRM and surprised it can handle an octo overclocked... I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> It military grade PCB design motherboard according to website and some background research. Gold capacitors are the best quality then any capacitors out there on the market. I tried Overclock at 4600 MHz and Works ok but not at 4700 with this FX 4300 it freezes up.


You just can't do things like this on a weak board like that Giga and a 500w PSU:









						Schmuckley`s 3DMark06 score: 24063 marks with a Radeon HD 5870
					

The Radeon HD 5870 @ 928/1263MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the 3DMark06 benchmark. Schmuckleyranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




					hwbot.org
				




That was a Corsair GS 800 PSU, not top of the line by any means, but it had some grunt.
That board had grunt, too.


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## R2DSF (Feb 25, 2020)

Assimilator said:


> I'm extremely impressed it hasn't melted yet.


My mistake 4.4 GHz, not 4.65. 
Config at 9:10, OC parameters at 12:20.
Time code 14:00 gaming tests with 1070ti.


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 25, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Its slow... holds back gaming at 1080p... but if you reach 60 fps, that is all you need. But, its old, was slow then and really slow now... but it will do.
> 
> If you are overclocking on that thing... I'd suggest spot cooling the VRM and/or putting heat sinks on it. Buy yes, it has a paltry VRM and surprised it can handle an octo overclocked... I wouldn't hold my breath.


Are we talking about bulldozer or I currently have Black Edition Vishera.? I currently have 135 mm 4 pipe Ratior with led light fan 125 mm at 2600-2800 rmp. Is that good rpm for my CPU. Thermal temperature staying at 40 c and gaming with Overclock 65-70c°


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## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> It military grade PCB design motherboard according to website and some background research. Gold capacitors are the best quality then any capacitors out there on the market. I tried Overclock at 4600 MHz and Works ok but not at 4700 with this FX 4300 it freezes up.


That's nice and all, but a $65 Ryzen Quad-core has probably more than double the performance.


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 25, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> That's nice and all, but a $65 Ryzen Quad-core has probably more than double the performance.


Ok is that CPU for AMD Am4 motherboard? Or Am3+


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## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Ok is that CPU for AMD Am4 motherboard? Or Am3+


It's AM4, and you should seriously consider upgrading. As far as "AM3+" I could buy the right k10 chip, unlock it, and have more performance than FX 4300.

Like this:









						AMD Phenom II X 2 3.2 GHz Dual Core B575 Processor HDXB57WFK2DGM Socket Am3 for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for AMD Phenom II X 2 3.2 GHz Dual Core B575 Processor HDXB57WFK2DGM Socket Am3 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## R2DSF (Feb 25, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> It's AM4, and you should seriously consider upgrading.


It useless to upgrade from AM3+ 8-core CPU to 4 core Zen. Overclocked fx8350 = 0.9* R5 1400 in gaming performance. 
Only upgrading to R5 1600 and better makes sense.


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## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

R2DSF said:


> It useless to upgrade from AM3+ 8-core CPU to 4 core Zen. Overclocked fx8350 = 0.9* R5 1400 in gaming performance.
> Only upgrading to R5 1600 and better makes sense.


I disagree, the IPC/single core is that much better.

Example:
Ryzen 3 4-core Cinebench:









						delly`s Cinebench - R11.5 score: 8.03 cb with a Ryzen 3 1300X
					

The Ryzen 3 1300X @ 4500MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R11.5 benchmark. dellyranks #null worldwide and #3 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




					hwbot.org
				




FX-8300 Cinebench:









						Volken`s Cinebench - R11.5 score: 7.83 cb with a FX-8300
					

The FX-8300 @ 4614MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R11.5 benchmark. Volkenranks #null worldwide and #13 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




					hwbot.org
				




IOW: Cheap Ryzen quad>Any Bulldozer chip.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 25, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Lol yes I noticed. I wasn't thinking it's was going to be a big debate.



Everything on this site lately seems to turn into a big debate. Everyone has their opinion on the best and of course they are always right.

My goto brands on Powersupplies are - Corsair, Antec, Seasonic - not in any order.


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## R2DSF (Feb 25, 2020)

I have 30+ budget (under 1k EUR) builds with Chieftec Core and it performs fine. Also there is a couple of Cougars psu in our lab, with fried +12V rectifiers and power mosfet stages.


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## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Everything on this site lately seems to turn into a big debate. Everyone has their opinion on the best and of course they are always right.
> 
> My goto brands on Powersupplies are - Corsair, Antec, Seasonic - not in any order.


Seems legit. 

I'm a bit of a Rosewill/SuperFlower junkie these days. I do have an Antec though.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 25, 2020)

Another thing to look at is the Rating. This is a fairly good indicator of quality. If it's an off-brand name but is rated highly (like Gold or higher) then it probably is repackaged stuff from a higher end brand name. So I would stay away from any off-brand with a rating lower than gold, maybe platinum.









						80 Plus - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## EarthDog (Feb 25, 2020)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Another thing to look at is the Rating. This is a fairly good indicator of quality.


That is an efficiency rating... not quality.

There are enough 80 plus and 80 plus bronze/silver units that reputable reviewers would consider poor quality that this advice isnt good without more research (especially for nobs who dont know to look for quality!). When you get into Platinum and higher, you may be able to lean on that more... but surely not 80 plus or 80 plus bronze/silver. Today, you can have efficient psus with cheap internals and higher ripple/wider voltage regulation, etc.


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## dirtyferret (Feb 25, 2020)

R2DSF said:


> Cheap shit from Channel Well Technology based on asymmetrical half-bridge with no saturation control, shitty ferromagnetic stabilizing system and so.



Not made by CWT, if you read further down the page you would know that



R2DSF said:


> If you want budget power suply take a look at Chieftec Core series.



and now you mention a brand that uses CWT for half their builds and is not really sold in the USA...


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## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

My gauge: Did it blow up when you were raping that hardware?
No? OK PSU then.  
GS 800 passed, but it was kinda dirty on the higher end.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 25, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> That is an efficiency rating... not quality.
> 
> There are enough 80 plus and 80 plus bronze/silver units that reputable reviewers would consider poor quality that this advice isnt good without more research (especially for nobs who dont know to look for quality!). When you get into Platinum and higher, you may be able to lean on that more... but surely not 80 plus or 80 plus bronze/silver. Today, you can have efficient psus with cheap internals and higher ripple/wider voltage regulation, etc.


I said gold or better. Because if you were to draw a Venn Diagram - Quality and Efficiency will intersect. You can't have a high efficiency Platinum Power supply with garbage components.


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## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> I said gold or better. Because if you were to draw a Venn Diagram - Quality and Efficiency will intersect. You can't have a high efficiency Platinum Power supply with garbage components.


Interesting theory.









						Gamdias CYCLOPS X1-1200P 1200W Power Supply - Newegg.com
					

Buy Gamdias CYCLOPS X1-1200P 1200W ATX12V v2.4, EPS 2.92 SLI CrossFire 80 PLUS PLATINUM Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




					www.newegg.com
				




Would you buy it? I wouldn't.


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## dirtyferret (Feb 25, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> Interesting theory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would never pay $200 for a PSU but I also don't need 1200w of power.  10yr warranty but only 40c rating, off the top of my head that sounds similar to the enhance built silverstone 1200w


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## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> I would never pay $200 for a PSU but I also don't need 1200w of power.  10yr warranty but only 40c rating, off the top of my head that sounds similar to the enhance built silverstone 1200w


I see you bobbing and weaving.


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## ZenZimZaliben (Feb 25, 2020)

Amazon.com: GAMDIAS Cyclops X1-1200P RGB Power Supply,100% Japanese Capacitors, 10 Years Warranty with 80 Plus Platinum Certified: Computers & Accessories
					

Buy GAMDIAS Cyclops X1-1200P RGB Power Supply, 100% Japanese Capacitors, 10 Years Warranty with 80 Plus Platinum Certified: Internal Power Supplies - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				





			https://www.bestbuy.com/site/reviews/gamdias-1200w-atx12v-2-4-eps12v-2-92-80-plus-platinum-modular-power-supply-black/6304831
		


Those look like positive reviews. Also your post doesn't prove jack Sh|t. IF you take crap components they will not hit platinum. I said Gold at least but Plat would be better. Like read the whole post instead of picking out a select few words what you want to argue about...FFS. I said platinum would be better...so you know Platinum is better..cause Platinum is better. Platinum!

Here's my post so you can read it again -" (like Gold or higher)  " "avoid off-brand with a rating lower than gold, maybe platinum." Notice the Gold or Higher part, and also take special note of the platinum part.

I also stated that if you find an offbrand that is rated high it is probably a rebadged PS - which that one is and they added LED LIghting.


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## dirtyferret (Feb 25, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> I see you bobbing and weaving.


I would not buy it for $200 but not because I think it's junk, it may be solid to good as it ticks a lot of good boxes (10 year warranty? Even thermaltake offers you 7 yrs on their platinum 1200w).

I don't like the brand, they teased that PSU two years ago but have yet to send it out for testing.  In fact they don't send any of their models to the top PSU review sites (Tom's, tpu, anandtech, kitguru) for testing.


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## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> I would not buy it for $200 but not because I think it's junk, it may be solid to good as it ticks a lot of good boxes (10 year warranty? Even thermaltake offers you 7 yrs on their platinum 1200w).
> 
> I don't like the brand, they teased that PSU two years ago but have yet to send it out for testing.  In fact they don't send any of their models to the top PSU review sites (Tom's, tpu, anandtech, kitguru) for testing.


Perhaps they fear the sledge.



ZenZimZaliben said:


> Amazon.com: GAMDIAS Cyclops X1-1200P RGB Power Supply,100% Japanese Capacitors, 10 Years Warranty with 80 Plus Platinum Certified: Computers & Accessories
> 
> 
> Buy GAMDIAS Cyclops X1-1200P RGB Power Supply, 100% Japanese Capacitors, 10 Years Warranty with 80 Plus Platinum Certified: Internal Power Supplies - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> ...


Which is it an off-brand of?


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## EarthDog (Feb 25, 2020)

ZenZimZaliben said:


> Amazon.com: GAMDIAS Cyclops X1-1200P RGB Power Supply,100% Japanese Capacitors, 10 Years Warranty with 80 Plus Platinum Certified: Computers & Accessories
> 
> 
> Buy GAMDIAS Cyclops X1-1200P RGB Power Supply, 100% Japanese Capacitors, 10 Years Warranty with 80 Plus Platinum Certified: Internal Power Supplies - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> ...


Again, in general, that is true, but not The Gospel. These days, it's nothing to be efficient... but something to have high quality. If it was easy to build a high-quality psu, we'd see more of them cheaper.  It doesnt take high quality jap. caps to go platinum, for example...have proper holdup time, the slew of protections, a quality fan, really tight voltage and ripple tolerances.

Amazon and newegg ratings are only good for doa type of things. Turning it on and using it isnt testing it outside if it working (I also hate the newegg reviews by people as well...lol). Its funny though, a few were actually doa..in fact 25% were 1/2 stars.  

So... even though it has a 10 warranty, I'd worry about it working out of the box... some scary b-stock or something. But hey... its platinum so it has to he high quality, right?


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 25, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Don't mind other 83 posts...  lololol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Built in 2016 according the manufacturer code and BIOS version. Bought it in sealed factory box last year. I have FX CPU 4300 3.8ghz and turbo charger is 4.0 GHZ black Edition Vishera. I clocked it up to 4600mhz max out once I disabled the turbo charge with AMD overdrive software.


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## EarthDog (Feb 25, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Built in 2016 according the manufacturer code and BIOS version. Bought it in sealed factory box last year. I have FX CPU 4300 3.8ghz and turbo charger is 4.0 GHZ black Edition Vishera. I clocked it up to 4600mhz max out once I disabled the turbo charge with AMD overdrive software.


You crack me up man... I saw that in a previous post.

As I said there, dont go multi gpu... that cpu is a slug compared to what is out today (you may have bought it recently but the cpu is slow and been out for years) and will choke 2 gpus. A 4 core 4 thread cpu holds things back today. That said 60 fps is possible, no doubt... but a faster CPU will help considerably

.


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## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Again, in general, that is true, but not The Gospel. These days, it's nothing to be efficient... but something to have high quality. If it was easy to build a high-quality psu, we'd see more of them cheaper.  It doesnt take high quality jap. caps to go platinum, for example...have proper holdup time, the slew of protections, a quality fan, really tight voltage and ripple tolerances.
> 
> Amazon and newegg ratings are only good for doa type of things. Turning it on and using it isnt testing it outside if it working (I also hate the newegg reviews by people as well...lol). Its funny though, a few were actually doa..in fact 25% were 1/2 stars.
> 
> So... even though it has a 10 warranty, I'd worry about it working out of the box... some scary b-stock or something. Lol


What was it? BFG had a lifetime warranty.


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 25, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> It's AM4, and you should seriously consider upgrading. As far as "AM3+" I could buy the right k10 chip, unlock it, and have more performance than FX 4300.
> 
> Like this:
> 
> ...


Ok. What about at least a 6 core will be better than Dual core. I have a duel core and trying to get get of it. It won't even play games like fallout 4 for example. Althon II X version worst CPU ever. AMD must of be desperate made this CPU that I have in my junk pile of computer parts. A 8 or 12 core I'm interested in


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## EarthDog (Feb 25, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> What was it? BFG had a lifetime warranty.


I believe so. Arent they out of business? Must not have had many platinum+ power supplies when they were around.

I KID...I KID!!!  



PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Ok. What about at least a 6 core will be better than Dual core. I have a duel core and trying to get get of it. It won't even play games like fallout 4 for example. Althon II X version worst CPU ever. AMD must of be desperate made this CPU that I have in my junk pile of computer parts. A 8 or 12 core I'm interested in


see what cpu your board supports... it likely lists fx-8300 or something similar... that will give you the cores and threads, but not the IPC and speed. I know you are in a budget, but if you are gaming, maybe consider saving for a few months and upgrade, the experience will be better out of the gate and years to come.


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 25, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> You crack me up man... I saw that in a previous post.
> 
> As I said there, dont go multi gpu... that cpu is a slug compared to what is out today (you may have bought it recently but the cpu is slow and been out for years) and will choke 2 gpus. A 4 core 4 thread cpu holds things back today. That said 60 fps is possible, no doubt... but a faster CPU will help considerably
> 
> .


 NNo I'm talking about the motherboard built-in 2016. Yes CPU is old but for what it is and it's out dated compared to today market still able to Overclock to 4600. But in the same time I'm still looking forward to upgrade motherboard and CPU


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## Schmuckley (Feb 25, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Ok. What about at least a 6 core will be better than Dual core. I have a duel core and trying to get get of it. It won't even play games like fallout 4 for example. Althon II X version worst CPU ever. AMD must of be desperate made this CPU that I have in my junk pile of computer parts. A 8 or 12 core I'm interested in


Phenom II b55s unlock to be just as good as a Phenom II 965 BE quad-core (which I paid $165 for back in the day)

I have run almost every k10 chip there is, I love that stuff!

Bulldozer, notsomuch.

Ryzen is a step above all of that.

I have a Ryzen 3 2300x and 1200x.

Tell ya what, I challenge you to get any Bulldozer chip and I will beat you in Cinebench with either the 1200 quad-core (is it 13?) or the 2300x I have.

Soundly the Ryzen quad-cores are better than Bulldozer with fake 8 cores. I am trying to get this through to you.

Bottom line is you could get a Ryzen board and chip and be better off, and playing..what was it? Fallout 4 with decent framerates.


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 25, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> I believe so. Arent they out of business? Must not have had many platinum+ power supplies when they were around.
> 
> I KID...I KID!!!
> 
> see what cpu your board supports... it likely lists fx-8300 or something similar... that will give you the cores and threads, but not the IPC and speed. I know you are in a budget, but if you are gaming, maybe consider saving for a few months and upgrade, the experience will be better out of the gate and years to come.


Ok does anyone know where is any gigabyte motherboard and CPU in AMD ? I like to keep it AMD since I already have AMD and brande stickers on the case pc



Schmuckley said:


> Phenom II b55s unlock to be just as good as a Phenom II 965 BE quad-core (which I paid $165 for back in the day)
> 
> I have run almost every k10 chip there is, I love that stuff!
> 
> ...


Ok i understand what you are saying. And I accept your advice. I just wanted the maximum cores and speeds for my PC case upgrade. I'm been looking for Ryzen in eBay for awhile and don't know what works best for a good price.


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## Schmuckley (Feb 26, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Ok does anyone know where is any gigabyte motherboard and CPU in AMD ? I like to keep it AMD since I already have AMD and brande stickers on the case pc
> 
> 
> Ok i understand what you are saying. And I accept your advice. I just wanted the maximum cores and speeds for my PC case upgrade. I'm been looking for Ryzen in eBay for awhile and don't know what works best for a good price.


cheapest decent right now is probably x370 motherboard and ryzen 3 1200 chip.
There are other boards that run the chips, there's a whole slew of Ryzen B boards, but idk..Best would be x470 motherboard.


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## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> I believe so. Arent they out of business? Must not have had many platinum+ power supplies when they were around.
> 
> I KID...I KID!!!
> 
> see what cpu your board supports... it likely lists fx-8300 or something similar... that will give you the cores and threads, but not the IPC and speed. I know you are in a budget, but if you are gaming, maybe consider saving for a few months and upgrade, the experience will be better out of the gate and years to come.


What about this CPU? 









						AMD Ryzen 3 1300X 3.70GHz Quad-Core (YD130XBBAEBOX) Processor for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for AMD Ryzen 3 1300X 3.70GHz Quad-Core (YD130XBBAEBOX) Processor at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## INSTG8R (Feb 26, 2020)

How did this turn into 5 pages? Bad PSU is bad?


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 26, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> What about this CPU?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Costs too much for what it is. Worth $60-$65
Gah, cannot sell you mine in case I get busted back to the stone age.

Hoarding policy.









						AMD CPU Ryzen 3 1200 with Wraith Stealth cooler YD1200BBAEBOX for sale online | eBay
					

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					www.ebay.com
				












						ASRock X370KILLERSLIAC AMD, Motherboard for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for ASRock X370KILLERSLIAC AMD, Motherboard at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com
				



Almost $100, best thing I see right now.

$150 for a new cpu and motherboard.


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 26, 2020)

What about this one? Anything good on this upgrade?https://www.ebay.com/itm/274198054563


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> NNo I'm talking about the motherboard built-in 2016. Yes CPU is old but for what it is and it's out dated compared to today market still able to Overclock to 4600. But in the same time I'm still looking forward to upgrade motherboard and CPU


4.6 ghz in that cpu is like 2 ghz on ryzen 3000 or intel. It just cant compare. Modern processors do more in each clock cycle (called Instructions Per Clock, IPC).

My take... if you are going to upgrade, upgrade. Get a x470 board and a ryzen 3000 series cpu. If not 3000, go 2000 series. Ryzen 1000 is better, but 2/3 even more so. For less than $400 you can get ryzen 5 2600 (6c/12t, $132), a decent x470 motherboard (~$150), and some DDR4 16GB (<$100). And that is new.

Edit: I would NOT move to a quad core ryzen 1000 series... just not worth it for long... if you need to go 1 series, be sure it's at least a 6c/12t part.


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> 4.6 ghz in that cpu is like 2 ghz on ryzen 3000 or intel. It just cant compare. Modern processors do more in each clock cycle (called Instructions Per Clock, IPC).
> 
> My take... if you are going to upgrade, upgrade. Get a x470 board and a ryzen 3000 series cpu. If not 3000, go 2000 series. Ryzen 1000 is better, but 2/3 even more so. For less than $400 you can get ryzen 5 2600 (6c/12t, $132), a decent x470 motherboard (~$150), and some DDR4 16GB (<$100). And that is new.








						GIGABYTE GA-AB350-Gaming 3 (AM4,AMD) (GA-AB350-Gaming 3) Motherboard 0889523009093 for sale online
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for GIGABYTE GA-AB350-Gaming 3 (AM4,AMD) (GA-AB350-Gaming 3) Motherboard at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 26, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> What about this one? Anything good on this upgrade?


Idk what those b450 boards do. A) Giga (not historically good for AMD)
B) 1st gen Ryzen B350 ..that's like the somebody whacked it in the knee motherboard from the jump.

Should be $46. That board.
X370 minimum, x470 is preferred.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> GIGABYTE GA-AB350-Gaming 3 (AM4,AMD) (GA-AB350-Gaming 3) Motherboard 0889523009093 for sale online
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for GIGABYTE GA-AB350-Gaming 3 (AM4,AMD) (GA-AB350-Gaming 3) Motherboard at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> ...


Not good enough... not close. See suggestion you replied to.


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> 4.6 ghz in that cpu is like 2 ghz on ryzen 3000 or intel. It just cant compare. Modern processors do more in each clock cycle (called Instructions Per Clock, IPC).
> 
> My take... if you are going to upgrade, upgrade. Get a x470 board and a ryzen 3000 series cpu. If not 3000, go 2000 series. Ryzen 1000 is better, but 2/3 even more so. For less than $400 you can get ryzen 5 2600 (6c/12t, $132), a decent x470 motherboard (~$150), and some DDR4 16GB (<$100). And that is new.
> 
> Edit: I would NOT move to a quad core ryzen 1000 series... just not worth it for long... if you need to go 1 series, be sure it's at least a 6c/12t part.


I say x3-470 board and a decent CPU.

I bought 2 Ryzen quads..They work..I will put them up against any Bulldozer chip ever..except in clock speed..

This isn't bad...









						BIOSTAR X370GT7 Motherboard - Socket AM4, ATX for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for BIOSTAR X370GT7 Motherboard - Socket AM4, ATX at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 26, 2020)

INSTG8R said:


> How did this turn into 5 pages? Bad PSU is bad?


Well someone asked me about what motherboard I was using today and these past 4 days we been talking about about a PSU before today then we talking about AMD motherboards for Currently I'm using and now we chatted  about upgrade to Am4 and cpus. Everything took off like a rocket. Lol what switch right?


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> I say x3-470 board and a decent CPU.
> 
> I bought 2 Ryzen quads..They work..I will put them up against any Bulldozer chip ever..except in clock speed..


That's exactly what I suggested. X470 and a ryzen 5 2600.

Again, it's an improvement, a ryzen quad, but 4c/8t today is a minimum. Clocks on those are lower than 2 series..etc. zen+ or bust...



....that said, I'm not sure the op is even buying anything soon. I dont want to go down this hole unless hes close to buying. Too many things can change in just a couple.of months.


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 26, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Well someone asked me about what motherboard I was using today and these past 4 days we been talking about about a PSU before today then we talking about AMD motherboards for Currently I'm using and now we chatted  about upgrade to Am4 and cpus. Everything took off like a rocket. Lol what switch right?


Your mobo is weaker than what I was using a decade ago.
1 decade ago, I was using an M4a89GTD-Pro, k?

It ran all teh k10 chips I wanted it to. Unlocked 8  dual-core chip cores to 4 at least.


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> That's exactly what I suggested. X470 and a ryzen 5 2600.
> 
> Again, it's an improvement, a ryzen quad, but 4c/8t today is a minimum. Clocks on those are lower than 2 series..etc. zen+ or bust...
> 
> ...


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

Why are you randomly quoting me and posting an image of your psu?

Edit: I see, you borked the quote...lol

Ok...so, I dont suggest nickle and diming those 3 parts (cpu, mobo, ram)... i dont like to lock in on parts as, again, things change quickly...so just start with the powe supply. Create another thread when you are ready to buy the rest.


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 26, 2020)

This was..something unlocked.
There was no "1075T" AMD chip.
It wasn't a 960T Zosma, really cannot remember. It may have been the triple for all I know.
960T unlocked comes up 1055T



			https://d1ebmxcfh8bf9c.cloudfront.net/u40271/image_id_803626.jpeg


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 26, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> Costs too much for what it is. Worth $60-$65
> Gah, cannot sell you mine in case I get busted back to the stone age.
> 
> Hoarding policy.
> ...


Really nice looking motherboard there


Schmuckley said:


> This was..something unlocked.
> There was no "1075T" AMD chip.
> It wasn't a 960T Zosma, really cannot remember. It may have been the triple for all I know.
> 960T unlocked comes up 1055T
> ...


Is that model for Am4 or Am3+ ?


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 26, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Really nice looking motherboard there
> 
> Is that model for Am4 or Am3+ ?


That's AM3 ..it's time for AM4..

Maybe there was a 1075T? Idk..

edit: There was a 1075T, mostly for servers.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 26, 2020)

PatrioTFreedom45 said:


> Really nice looking motherboard there
> 
> Is that model for Am4 or Am3+ ?



Just stop, dont upgrade yet, lets start with getting you a good powersupply


----------



## Frick (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> That's exactly what I suggested. X470 and a ryzen 5 2600.


Why not b450? Cheaper and with overclocking if that's interesting (personally I find overclocking my 2600x extremely unrewarding).


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

Frick said:


> Why not b450? Cheaper and with overclocking if that's interesting (personally I find overclocking my 2600x extremely unrewarding.


Generally less robust vrms... trying to get the guy off bargain basement boards. 

It can be an option, however.


----------



## Frick (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Generally less robust vrms... trying to get the guy off bargain basement boards.
> 
> It can be an option, however.



Is that a problem unless you run very high voltages and loads? I have zero insight in this platform. But given how limited overclocking is on Ryzen (as far as I can tell though) I'd imagined it's less of a problem than it was on AM3+.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

Frick said:


> Is that a problem unless you run very high voltages and loads? I have zero insight in this platform. But given how limited overclocking is on Ryzen (as far as I can tell though) I'd imagined it's less of a problem than it was on AM3+.


Depends on the board. If you go cheap ass B350 or B450, then it can be a problem now or in the future, yes (depending on CPU). Or if he wants to upgrade to a beefier CPU and drive it, yes. 

That platform (B450) also natively runs slower native memory speeds, (2666 vs 2933) and has fewer USB ports and PCIe 2.0 ports (the latter doesn't matter much). 

Again, the point is to get the dude off the bargain basement yet still fit within his budget.


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Generally less robust vrms... trying to get the guy off bargain basement boards.
> 
> It can be an option, however.


I actually just built a Ryzen 2600x / budget gigabyte B450 mobo unit for my wife.  I didn't play around with BIOS settings and left them at stock.  I don't think facebook performance will increase too much from a OC 2600x but I could be wrong.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> I actually just built a Ryzen 2600x / budget gigabyte B450 mobo unit for my wife.  I didn't play around with BIOS settings and left them at stock.  I don't think facebook performance will increase too much from a OC 2600x but I could be wrong.


There is no doubt it is possible. But it's more than just that - be forward thinking. This dude cheaps out on every part (be it out of necessity or what, not entirely sure) and that has caused issues with upgrading and moving forward with what he has.


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 26, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> Seems legit.
> 
> I'm a bit of a Rosewill/SuperFlower junkie these days. I do have an Antec though.



I hear mixed reviews on the Rosewill.  Any particular one you recommend cause my EVGA 650W BR has terrible coil whine and need something modular anyway.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> I hear mixed reviews on the Rosewill.  Any particular one you recommend cause my EVGA 650W BR has terrible coil whine and need something modular anyway.


You will have to look it up, honestly... Rosewill, a few years back, was all trash. Fast-forward to a few years ago and a couple of them use decent to good OEMs. I don't recall which is which, but I know JGuru reviewed a couple.. I'd start there.


----------



## sepheronx (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> You will have to look it up, honestly... Rosewill, a few years back, was all trash. Fast-forward to a few years ago and a couple of them use decent to good OEMs. I don't recall which is which, but I know JGuru reviewed a couple.. I'd start there.



I do frequent the site but never looked up on the rosewill tbh as I more or less forgot about that brand.


----------



## Frick (Feb 26, 2020)

Rosewill is ok these days. Or was last time I checked.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> I do frequent the site but never looked up on the rosewill tbh as I more or less forgot about that brand.


To make it easy on yourself, just grab a Seasonic or Corsair. The WORST you can do is serviceable/decent (SIII12 and CX series), while their best is top notch.

I know its....silly... but I stay away from Rosewill anything, even though I know darn well some of their PSUs are ok/great (some are still garbage IIRC). Just finding which one, I don't have time for so I stick with known good brands.


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 26, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> I hear mixed reviews on the Rosewill.  Any particular one you recommend cause my EVGA 650W BR has terrible coil whine and need something modular anyway.



Like earthdog stated they are a mixed bag similar to cooler master.  I know the capstones used a superflower platform (they may still) and the hive used a sirtec (i believe, too lazy to check) that was also used by OCZ.  Now both platforms are getting long in the tooth but on sale may show good value.  The thing with rosewill is they have so many different lines and one comes out, sells for six months, and then you never see it again.  It's just a giant grab bag of mixed lines and OEMs.


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 26, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Just stop, dont upgrade yet, lets start with getting you a good powersupply



I agree, start with a decent PSU.


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 26, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> I agree, start with a decent PSU.


seriously, the OP started this thread on saturday.  It's time to go or get off the pot on getting a new PSU.


----------



## Schmuckley (Feb 26, 2020)

sepheronx said:


> I hear mixed reviews on the Rosewill.  Any particular one you recommend cause my EVGA 650W BR has terrible coil whine and need something modular anyway.


Capstone or HIVE series.


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 26, 2020)

Schmuckley said:


> Capstone or HIVE series.



FYI, the capstone "G" series is made by enhance.  They are capable of making a good maybe even great PSU at times and they are just as capable of making not so good PSU.  The older capstones are superflower. 






						Rosewill Capstone G750 750W Power Supply – Page 6 – JonnyGURU.com
					






					www.jonnyguru.com


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 26, 2020)

Go to realhardtechx.com or orionpsu for specs and reviews.

Jonnyguru hasn't reviewed anything since he works for corsair...


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 26, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Jonnyguru hasn't reviewed anything since he works for corsair...


But Oklahoma wolf has for those years and recently retired (late 2018??). It won't have the latest and greatest, but JG is still one of the great reference sites.


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> But Oklahoma wolf has for those years and recently retired (late 2018??). It won't have the latest and greatest, but JG is still one of the great reference sites.



Its been slow there for sure, some reviews are missing there too. Sites broken still...


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 26, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Just stop, dont upgrade yet, lets start with getting you a good powersupply


Working on it now. Waiting for more cash Saturday.


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 26, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Jonnyguru hasn't reviewed anything since he works for corsair...



Jonny Gerow hasn't done a review for Jonnyguru since 2012 or 2013



eidairaman1 said:


> Its been slow there for sure, some reviews are missing there too. Sites broken still...



Tazz who runs the web site stated a while ago he has been having health issues.  The main review person left in late 2018.  Basically the site is just the forum now.


----------



## PatrioTFreedom45 (Feb 26, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> seriously, the OP started this thread on saturday.  It's time to go or get off the pot on getting a new PSU.


I'm getting it just alittle short of cash until Saturday Evening. I have a little quest to do on Saturday Evening to get more cash. I'm pretty much definitely going to get the PSU thermalake or ?Evec? or what ever how you spell it that last top brand.


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 26, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> But Oklahoma wolf has for those years and recently retired (late 2018??). It won't have the latest and greatest, but JG is still one of the great reference sites.


Not to get off on a tangent but hey we have nothing to do on this thread until Saturday when patriot gets more money; there are really not a lot of quality PSU review sites left.

Gabriel Torres stopped doing PSU reviews on his site, hardwaresecrets, around 2012
Jonnyguru is understaffed and may not come back
Hardocp stopped all reviews (the founder went to work for Intel)
HardwareHeaven used to do good reviews, haven't done them in years, one review in 2016, one in 2015 and those were half assed
OC3Dnet? techreport? have not done them in years
the list goes on and on

You used to get 3-4 reviews for each new PSU series that came out with at least two of them coming from a reviewer with a load tester.  Now we are lucky if we get one review and its usually just some guy telling us his HWmonitor reading while he runs prime all so he can get free gear to sell on ebay.

All we really have left
TPU & Toms (same guy, great reviews but still the same voice)
Anandtech - great reviews but not a lot of them
Kitguru - great reviews as well
edit: Nikktech still does PSU reviews


----------



## Frick (Feb 26, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Kitguru - great reviews as well



Who's doing them?

Completely agree with your post btw. I would add Sweclockers to your list of reviewers but then I looked and realized they haven't done a PSU review since late 2018. 

EDIT: Holy cow, looked at jguru and apparently in the server move tazz didn't move all the old reviews.


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 26, 2020)

Frick said:


> Who's doing them?


Allan 'Zardon' Campbell



Frick said:


> I would add Sweclockers to your list of reviewers but then I looked and realized they haven't done a PSU review since late 2018.


I'll take your word for it as my knowledge of the Swedish language starts and and ends with "Ikea" (yes I know its an acronym)



Frick said:


> EDIT: Holy cow, looked at jguru and apparently in the server move tazz didn't move all the old reviews.


he posted a month ago he's "still" working on it but had some health issues


----------



## LukeSavenije (Feb 27, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Allan 'Zardon' Campbell


actually, Aris has done a couple for them as well, but that aside

you also still have people like tweakpc, the mask and probably a couple others i didn't list here, but there sure have been exits from some

though, i got curious after reading the thread, and i saw an old version of the PSU tier list linked. I just wanted to make aware that I've been leading a newer version since october, and i was curious to your opinion, since i tried changing a lot to it




__





						PSU Tier List rev. 14.8
					

PSU Tier List 4.0 rev. 14.8 (END OF LIFE) Last Update: 27-07-2021 Legend : Gray - EoL/obsolete and/or otherwise not recommended for purchase. Green - small form-factor (gold and blue colors are disregarded due to scarcity of SFX PSUs) Gold - best units in the tier (includes requirements for blue ...




					linustechtips.com
				




also, i had a good laugh reading parts of the thread


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 28, 2020)

LukeSavenije said:


> though, i got curious after reading the thread, and i saw an old version of the PSU tier list linked. I just wanted to make aware that I've been leading a newer version since october, and i was curious to your opinion, since i tried changing a lot to it
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Welcome to TPU and let me say I really enjoyed the group regulated article posted a few months back

As for tier lists I echo the sentiment of the jonnyguru forum .  Jonnyguru did start one himself but it was up to ten different tiers when he stopped (since removed of tiers)

Your list is well done and I recognize some of the contributors from the Jonnyguru forum but I find the list to be confusing for most people like the OP.  They don't understand what "high overload ripple" or "too high OCP" means and probably don't care to.  They also don't know what they want.

I'm not picking on Patriot because 90%+ of all "what should I get" posters do this.  Here is his opening post;
_Hello there. I have been looking for a good decent PSU to buy. What anyone know this couger brand PSU. Cougar MX-Series MX650 650W PSU ATX12V 80+ _

It's not until pg 3 we get his budget (max $70) and GPU (RX 570) and we get his CPU (FX-4300) in pg 4.  So really his opening post should have been
"I have a budget of $70max for a new PSU to power my FX-4300 & RX 570"

I honestly feel there are five tiers of PSU
1- it's junk don't put it in your PC.  It can damaged hardware when it goes...and it will when you push it
2 - fine for an office PC and in an emergency it can cover your gaming PC (it's late, you don't want to wait two days for amazon and staples is open).  You definitely need to start saving for a new one.
3 - it's mediocre but capable.  It will do its job during the warranty period and will probably outlast it depending on use.  You tend to see these PSU on those $800 budget builds every web site has.
4 - it's a very good PSU.  A wise investment that will last you through two builds or more.
5 - it's an excellent PSU and you will pay for it.  Basically like picking your favorite high end Italian sports car, everyone has _their favorite _and there obviously has to be a winner but even the loser is driving a high end Italian sports car!


----------



## milewski1015 (Feb 28, 2020)

Frick said:


> Why not b450? Cheaper and with overclocking if that's interesting (personally I find overclocking my 2600x extremely unrewarding).



Exactly my thinking. If Patriot is looking for best bang for buck after they get a new PSU squared away, why not look at something like a 1600AF and an MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX?






						Amazon.com: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 65W AM4 Processor with Wraith Stealth Cooler (YD1600BBAFBOX): Computers & Accessories
					

Buy AMD Ryzen 5 1600 65W AM4 Processor with Wraith Stealth Cooler (YD1600BBAFBOX): CPU Processors - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



					www.amazon.com
				






			https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WF6ZQST/ref=twister_B07ZHY844C?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 28, 2020)

milewski1015 said:


> Exactly my thinking. If Patriot is looking for best bang for buck after they get a new PSU squared away, why not look at something like a 1600AF and an MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He hasnt been back since yesterday we gave several suggestions, all we can do is let this topic die till he returns and has actually done something...



dirtyferret said:


> Welcome to TPU and let me say I really enjoyed the group regulated article posted a few months back
> 
> As for tier lists I echo the sentiment of the jonnyguru forum .  Jonnyguru did start one himself but it was up to ten different tiers when he stopped (since removed of tiers)
> 
> ...



Yeah his list is extremely skewed. Besides at a minimum a High Qual bronze unit will beat out a Mediocre gold unit and a crappy platinum/ titanium unit.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 28, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Besides at a minimum a High Qual bronze unit will beat out a Mediocre gold unit and a crappy platinum/ titanium unit.


What does this mean? What metrics are you basing that on(not efficiency!)? That said, will any end user really notice a difference between them? Can you find a 'crappy' plat/titan unit? What makes it 'crappy'?


----------



## eidairaman1 (Feb 28, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> What does this mean? What metrics are you basing that on(not efficiency!)? That said, will any end user really notice a difference between them? Can you find a 'crappy' plat/titan unit? What makes it 'crappy'?



Build quality, some manufacturers overspec their psus claiming they are this when as soon as you start stressing them they pop and short the motherboard out yet you overpaid for what it truly is.


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 28, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> Besides at a minimum a High Qual bronze unit will beat out a Mediocre gold unit and a crappy platinum/ titanium unit.



A high quality unit will beat out a mediocre unit and a crappy unit.  Remember 80+ plus testing is done at room temperature.  Your PC case is probably 40-50c during a gaming session. A PSU with a a gold 80 plus badge is different then a PSU doing 80 plus efficiency throughout a hotbox test.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 28, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> A high quality unit will beat out a mediocre unit and a crappy unit.  Remember 80+ plus testing is done at room temperature.  Your PC case is probably 40-50c during a gaming session. A PSU with a a gold 80 plus badge is different then a PSU doing 80 plus efficiency throughout a hotbox test.


Riiiight!  But he said 80+ Bronze... arent those tested the same (req. Temp) as plat/tit?



eidairaman1 said:


> Build quality, some manufacturers overspec their psus claiming they are this when as soon as you start stressing them they pop and short the motherboard out yet you overpaid for what it truly is.


So overspec is the difference. Ok. Agreed.

But does that make psus built to spec 'crappy'? Outside of the ln2 overclocker does voltage reg at 1.5% matter versus 0.5%? Does that make it crap though? Crap to me would be almost or out of spec. What about ripple? By a scope (and like vreg), it is 'worse' but how does that effect an ambient cooled user? What is a crap plat/titm psu... and what exactly makes it crap? 

In my experience over the decades and hundreds of liters of ln2, it's not until you are at the edge of the CPU and board's abilities that really REALLY clean power matters. For an ambient user, they run into thermal limitations well before in spec vreg or ripple affect them. So...is it really crappy or does it, for the end user, really beat out others outside of paper specs?


----------



## dirtyferret (Feb 28, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Riiiight!  But he said 80+ Bronze... arent those tested the same (req. Temp) as plat/tit?


Correct, all tested at room temp.  My point to our friend is that the 80 plus badge is often used for marketing and product positioning.


----------



## EarthDog (Feb 28, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Correct, all tested at room temp.  My point to our friend is that the 80 plus badge is often used for marketing and product positioning.


Gotcha.. I was trying to figure out what makes a plat/tit PSU 'crappy'.... and if it matters to anyone regardless. 

This pooor thread... :rofl:


----------



## oxrufiioxo (Feb 28, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> Gotcha.. I was trying to figure out what makes a plat/tit PSU 'crappy'.... and if it matters to anyone regardless.
> 
> This pooor thread... :rofl:



I don't think the OP can afford a Titanium or Platinum PSU so its probably irrelevant. 

Also not sure why so many people fight over this if there was 2 PSU on a table and you could pick either one, one being a Seasonic Ultra Prime Titanium 850 and one being a Corsair RM850x nobody would choose the Corsair....... So it really just comes down to what you can afford in your budget.


----------



## LukeSavenije (Feb 28, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Welcome to TPU and let me say I really enjoyed the group regulated article posted a few months back


thank you, i recently wrote some explenations around other topologies and regulations as well, if you didn't see already
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1158795-topologies-and-regulations-what-should-i-look-for/



dirtyferret said:


> Your list is well done and I recognize some of the contributors from the Jonnyguru forum but I find the list to be confusing for most people like the OP. They don't understand what "high overload ripple" or "too high OCP" means and probably don't care to. They also don't know what they want.


this is why I included the terms i mean with it in the second spoiler from the top, at least on ripple and OCP. the term overload i found a bit unneeded to include, but i could if that would make things easier for them

with that I tried to give people an idea of what level of PSU they should get, with

tier s being the absolute best
tier A+ for a high-end HEDT/TR/Multi-GPU rig,
tier A for a high end single gpu rig, B+ covering the midrange, 
tier B covering the low-end,
tier C+ covering the APU systems, 
tier C covering the minor/unrealistic issues, 
tier D the bigger issues and 
tier E the absolute bombs
if that makes sense, at least

and indeed, there has been some help from people that are on the JG forum, but the main work is still done by the team listed, with some reviewers on the side helping us with sources and so on.


EarthDog said:


> Can you find a 'crappy' plat/titan unit?


actually... there is an andyson PSU, sold by Raidmax that is 80+ titanium, and completely missed OTP, while it should be a flagship... it was odd to say the least. and as said above, 80+ is nothing more than efficiency testing, reviewers test much more like it's ripple, voltage regulation, transient response, protections, power sensing, power_ok and so on

and if anyone else has suggestions, feel free to let me know



EarthDog said:


> does voltage reg at 1.5% matter versus 0.5%? Does that make it crap though? Crap to me would be almost or out of spec. What about ripple?


1.5 vs 0.5 won't matter much, but of course better voltage regulation gives less stress on other components, as they then have a more stable voltage to work with. similarly to ripple

and intel's limits are currently 120mv, while i personally prefer to have 50mv after hearing things from some miners about earlier GPU fails on PSUs that had more than 50mV of ripple.


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 28, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> A high quality unit will beat out a mediocre unit and a crappy unit.  Remember 80+ plus testing is done at room temperature.  Your PC case is probably 40-50c during a gaming session. A PSU with a a gold 80 plus badge is different then a PSU doing 80 plus efficiency throughout a hotbox test.



All i know is when indoor temps are 80°F+ or higher is when I know a psu can handle the load. Especially if there are "old hot parts"


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## Frick (Feb 28, 2020)

EarthDog said:


> But does that make psus built to spec 'crappy'? Outside of the ln2 overclocker does voltage reg at 1.5% matter versus 0.5%? Does that make it crap though? Crap to me would be almost or out of spec. What about ripple? By a scope (and like vreg), it is 'worse' but how does that effect an ambient cooled user? What is a crap plat/titm psu... and what exactly makes it crap?
> 
> In my experience over the decades and hundreds of liters of ln2, it's not until you are at the edge of the CPU and board's abilities that really REALLY clean power matters. For an ambient user, they run into thermal limitations well before in spec vreg or ripple affect them. So...is it really crappy or does it, for the end user, really beat out others outside of paper specs?



Yeah, the ATX spec exists for a reason. I'd love some input from actual engineers, but to my mind  for any computer not on the kind of edge you describe there's no difference between Corsair VS units or Corsair AX units. I've said for a long time the only reason to splurge on higher end units is a longer warranty period.



LukeSavenije said:


> and intel's limits are currently 120mv, while i personally prefer to have 50mv after hearing things from some miners about earlier GPU fails on PSUs that had more than 50mV of ripple.



Is that confirmed?


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## LukeSavenije (Feb 28, 2020)

Frick said:


> Is that confirmed?


by those miners, yes... but not officially tested by any reviewers to my knowledge. my source here is indirect though, as it's something I heard from tech-review.de's M. Plattner.

for this reason i call it a personal limit, not an official one


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## eidairaman1 (Feb 29, 2020)

eidairaman1 said:


> All i know is when indoor temps are 80°F+ or higher is when I know a psu can handle the load. Especially if there are "old hot parts"



As a matter of fact my cpu runs at 55c in game, the hottest it got was in blender at 75°C


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## lorry (Feb 29, 2020)

This might help ?









						The Most RELIABLE PSU Tier List 2022 [PSU Hierarchy Chart]
					

This is the definitive and latest PSU tier list for 2022 . I organized and ranked all the PSU in 6 different categories. Choose yours!




					10scopes.com


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## dirtyferret (Feb 29, 2020)

lorry said:


> This might help ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, ...the best thing I can say about that site is he plagiarized Aris recommendation from Tom's as his own.  The list itself is head scratching and the amount of ads just tells me he is looking for people from Google search desperate to see any list rather then read one review.


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## LukeSavenije (Feb 29, 2020)

dirtyferret said:


> Wow, ...the best thing I can say about that site is he plagiarized Aris recommendation from Tom's as his own.  The list itself is head scratching and the amount of ads just tells me he is looking for people from Google search desperate to see any list rather then read one review.


as well as some similarities to the list that was made by STRMfrmXMN on LTT at the time, but with some VERY weird edits


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## LukeSavenije (Mar 3, 2020)

Bullets200 said:


> I have 30+ budget (under 1k EUR) builds with Chieftec Core and it performs fine. Also there is a couple of Cougars psu in our lab, with fried +12V rectifiers and power mosfet stages.


which cougars were those?

and core (bbs) looks like something cwt... possibly gps? not sure. it looks half-decent at least


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## R2DSF (Mar 4, 2020)

LukeSavenije said:


> which cougars were those?


Twenty three of STE-series and five STX-series.


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## LukeSavenije (Mar 4, 2020)

R2DSF said:


> Twenty three of STE-series and five STX-series.


then I'm not 100% surprised... they're very low end series from them, while that core bbs is actually a half-decent midrange. not something to compare companies by, since cougar also sells stuff like GX-F and GX-S


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## R2DSF (Mar 4, 2020)

LukeSavenije said:


> cougar also sells stuff like GX-F and GX-S


There is no High-TIER Cougar PSU on EMEA market. At least officially.


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## LukeSavenije (Mar 4, 2020)

R2DSF said:


> EMEA


again... GX-F and GX-S? they're not absolute high end, but GX-S can rival CX level PSUs and GX-F even higher


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## R2DSF (Mar 4, 2020)

Both


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